--- Log opened Wed Apr 04 00:00:28 2018
--- Day changed Wed Apr 04 2018
00:00 < Dagmar> If you have a digital flat panel display, the only correct value for overscan is zero.
00:00  * phogg tries to build elm just for fun
00:00 < phogg> this thing really does NOT expect multiarch
00:00 < stefmorino> registeringIsBad I'll try testing locally to see if I can get what you want working
00:00 < Dagmar> IF you're using something that is also half a TV, make _certain_ it's not doing something fantastically stupid by attempting to provide overscan
00:01 < registeringIsBad> Dagmar I am trying to use a TV as a second monitor
00:01 < Dagmar> Overscan is only relevant to cathode ray tubes
00:01 < registeringIsBad> unfortunately it does not provide any overscan options
00:01 < Dagmar> For a purely digital transfer of video data, it's completely irrelevant and will only chop off parts of the image
00:01 < registeringIsBad> Dagmar well whatever it is that is making some of the screen not show up
00:01 < Dagmar> Poke at the menus on your TV
00:01 < phogg> registeringIsBad: is there a "Game" mode? Sometimes that helps.
00:02 < Dagmar> Even flatpanels should _not_ be attempting to rescale the image to do overscan, but some manufacturers were very late in figuring this out
00:02 < registeringIsBad> phogg no, I've gone over the manual a few times, and the only settings are for colour values
00:02 < phogg> registeringIsBad: try toggling *every single option* related to picture and display. Something will control this.
00:02 < Dagmar> Otehrwise, look up the 800 number for the product support and hassle them about it
00:02 < rockdarko> I just read journalctl for myu evolution problem with ews, I will never figure that out haha. Its all segfault dumps in red that do not tell much except: you're f***** -_-
00:02 < registeringIsBad> phogg there is an option labeled "aspect ratio", but my TV does not allow you to change that for HDMI input
00:02 < phogg> registeringIsBad: are you using HDMI? Some early HDMI TVs were bad at this and do it wrong.
00:03 < registeringIsBad> phogg yes
00:03 < phogg> if you have one that's wrong... well you're probably screwed
00:03 < registeringIsBad> its also a dell tv, so there is no overscan option within xrandr for it
00:03 < Dagmar> Again, overscan is only relevant for CRTs
00:03 < Dagmar> You should _not_ set anything related to overscan through the driver or computer
00:04 < ksk> registeringIsBad: you have the right resolution setup for the tv display?
00:04 < registeringIsBad> phogg it seems weird that you cant just simulate a blank area outside of the actual picture, so the tv would cut that out and show all the picture then
00:04 < Dagmar> To be clear, "overscan" is the part of the image that is outside the normal viewable area on an analog broadcast because it's cut off by the curvature of the display and the inaccuracy of analog broadcast
00:04 < registeringIsBad> ksk i cannot change the aspect ratio within the tv. xrandr gives me display options of 1920x1080 and 1280x720, both give me "overscan"
00:04 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: I've seen some devices like that with multipl HMI ports, where 1 port would force overscan and others wouldn't, and there was no way to know without testing all ports
00:04 < Dagmar> Broadcasters have always compensated for this by trying to put absolutely nothing in the ~5% of the outer edge of hte display
00:05 < TJ-> s/HMI/HDMI/ grrr
00:05 < registeringIsBad> TJ- I have tried both hdmi ports
00:05 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: what is the exact model number?
00:05 < Dagmar> ...but you're using digital media now.  You've got a source image that's 1920x1080 and a display that's 1920x1080 which is a 1x1 match and there is no longer need for overscan
00:06 < registeringIsBad> Dagmar whenever I plug in the HDMI cable some of the picture is cut off
00:06 < registeringIsBad> Dagmar call that overscan or call that "missing picture", whatever it is I am trying to fix it
00:06 < MeiR> hi, i couldn't solve firewall issues which blocked apt-key from connecting. so i tried to import the key manually and it seemed to work (shell wrote: OK)
00:06 < Dagmar> During the changeover from NTSC to ATSC (digital everything) some manufacturers made the terrible decision to listen to old/stupid people who didn't understand why there was suddenly this weird edge of the screen with no words on it
00:06 < mawk> CFQ is the default disk scheduler ?
00:06 < Dagmar> ...so they made their displays capable of rescaling (i.e., "ruining") the image to be slightly larger before displaying it so the "overscan area" wouldn't even be shown.
00:07 < Dagmar> This is _wrong_
00:07 < MeiR> but the installation still doesn't recognize the signature
00:07 < phogg> registeringIsBad: your TV is correcting for something not needing correcting; the only thing you could do is add an artificial empty area around the edge of your screen. Completely possible at the window manager level but very unusual.
00:07 < Dagmar> Call Dell and yell at them
00:07 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: does the TV have 'PC' 'Video' etc type mode selection?
00:07 < Dagmar> They may have a firmware update that can sort this, or they may tell you to use some secret handshake with by holding down buttons when you power the thing up
00:07 < registeringIsBad> phogg do you have any idea how to do that?
00:08 < Dagmar> The image is already being rescaled once by the TV
00:08 < Dagmar> *Nothing* you can do on the PC end will do anything to fix it.  It will actually only make the image worse
00:08 < registeringIsBad> TJ- no, as I said there is an option to change the aspect ratio, which for some reason they prevent me for doing with an HDMI input source
00:08 < jim> MeiR, ok, can you apt update?
00:08 < phogg> registeringIsBad: Depending on your WM it is somewhere between annoying and impossible. It will be impossible for most normal WMs.
00:08 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: so what is the model number?
00:08 < registeringIsBad> TJ- model LC3260N by the way
00:08 < stefmorino> registeringIsBad I tried using scale and my display just went berserk, it was pretty good; hope that didn't damage anything
00:08 < MeiR> nope jim, that's what i meant what i said that installation doesn't work
00:08 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: ok ta
00:09 < Dagmar> registeringIsBad: Another legacy option for people who were under the impression it would be a good idea to stretch a 4:3 DVD output to a 16:9 display
00:09 < MeiR> when i said*
00:09 < Dagmar> They were also generally wrong
00:09 < Dagmar> ...or possibly had terrible astigmatism
00:09 < phogg> Dagmar: no, sometimes they're right. You definitely want to let the user choose, though.
00:09 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: is this a HP display? thought you said Dell
00:09 < Dagmar> The video/game/sports/movie options are just going to change gamma/color mappings
00:10 < registeringIsBad> sorry my bad
00:10 < jim> MeiR, ok, when you say firewall, I'm not sure which you mean? also what form does the firewall take?
00:10 < registeringIsBad> TJ- it is hp
00:10 < Dagmar> phogg: They're almost never right unless the DVD player itself sucks.  The mpeg format actually provides for a couple of measures that make a DVD capable of having a reasonable 16:9 output
00:10 < Dagmar> phogg: I've spent _loooots_ of time f**king with this
00:10 < MeiR> jim, it's iptables on ubuntu. tried to add a rule for allowing the apt-key conncection port
00:11 < MeiR> ACCEPT     tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere             tcp dpt:hkp state NEW
00:11 < Dagmar> It was a real sh*tshow for some time
00:11 < mawk> why did you put state new MeiR ?
00:11 < Dagmar> I've even got some "flippy" DVDs that are extrememly fubar where the 16:9 side is freaking letterboxed
00:11 < jim> ok, is this ubuntu the same machine you're running apt-key on?
00:11 < phogg> Dagmar: the mpeg format does, but not all early DVDs are authored correctly
00:11 < MeiR> (it automatically converted the port number into "dpt:hkp")
00:12 < Dagmar> phogg: Yeah I've got more than a few that are dead wrong
00:12 < mawk> yeah use iptables -n to not convert port numbers into strings
00:12 < MeiR> jim: i used a command which i found online
00:12 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: so the native resolution is 1366x768 !
00:12 < MeiR> there was also another command, which added this:
00:12 < MeiR>            tcp  --  anywhere             anywhere             tcp dpt:hkp
00:12 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: are you trying to drive it at 1920x1080 ?
00:12 < phogg> Dagmar: on some I have to scale 4:3 with embedded letterbox to 16:9 to get the best result; just "zoom" doesn't do as well
00:12 < MeiR> i see now that there's no "ACCEPT"
00:12 < mawk> MeiR: only one command should be necessary
00:12 < registeringIsBad> What? Thats not even an option that it told xrandr
00:13 < registeringIsBad> TJ- are you sure?
00:13 < mawk> iptables -A INPUT -p tcp --dport hkp -j ACCEPT
00:13 < mawk> tune it with a destination address if you want
00:13 < MeiR> mack121
00:13 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: look at the datasheet http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00608342
00:13 < stefmorino> registeringIsBad: Does something like 'xrandr --output HDMI-1 --mode 1366x768 --panning widthxheight' work?
00:13 < MeiR> ok mawk, one sec please
00:13 < Dagmar> phogg: I put an end to the bullsh*t by just ripping all my DVDs
00:13 < mawk> but flush the horrors you put before MeiR
00:13 < MeiR> btw, can you please give me the correct commands to remove the existing ones?
00:13 < phogg> Dagmar: that's one way to fix it... I should do it, but it would take SO MUCH time
00:13 < MeiR> ^ :)
00:14 < mawk> MeiR: you can remove everything with iptables -F
00:14 < mawk> if you didn't have rules before
00:14 < MeiR> had
00:14 < mawk> sorry
00:14 < jim> MeiR, and, is it true you just have the one machine (running that ubuntu and having some iptables rules) connected to your outgoing internet?
00:14 < MeiR> although they exists in some permanent rules list file
00:14 < registeringIsBad> stefmorino no,because it doesnt have a 1377x768 mode
00:14 < mawk> iptables isn't permanent
00:14 < Dagmar> phogg: Yeah it takes time but it also means never having to fiddle with getting things out of cases and so on
00:14 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: I guess because it can do 768 veritically they classify it as 720p HD
00:14 < mawk> but if you have some kind of wrapper that's setting rules at boot you maybe want to see that with it
00:14 < MeiR> yeah jim. it's a VPS on DO
00:14 < mawk> it should be ufw I guess
00:15 < Dagmar> I did my CDs a minimum of five a week until they were all done, and that took about a year
00:15 < jim> ohhh
00:15 < mawk> then MeiR you can remove rules one by one
00:15 < jim> so we're talking about a remote :)
00:15 < MeiR> mawk, there's an automatic command to load rules on network driver load
00:15 < Dagmar> I did two DVDs a week and that took about a year and a half
00:15 < jim> I did not know that :)
00:15 < mawk> first list rules with rule numbers, iptables -L -v --lin
00:15 < mawk> then you delete the corresponding rules with iptables -D INPUT N
00:15 < mawk> replace N by the rule number
00:15 < MeiR> yeah jim, sorry if it was neccesary for your help
00:15 < Dagmar> It'
00:15 < stefmorino> registeringIsBad then make whatever 1377x768 is your native resolution. HDMI might also be wrong; and widthxheight is the target resolution you want to compensate for the overscan
00:16 < Dagmar> It's mainly a matter of just continuing to iterate a better ripping script to account for all the demented things DVD makers do
00:16 < MeiR> mawk, actually, i added the rules in OUTPUT, and only there
00:16 < jim> MeiR, I'm just trying to gather info right now... and, since you're here, people hear that info :)
00:16 < MeiR> because it's an outgoing connection
00:16 < mawk> output firewall is weird MeiR
00:17 < mawk> especially for outgoing connections you don't know what the source port will be
00:17 < mawk> so you can filter using destination port
00:17 < mawk> but again it's weird
00:17 < MeiR> mawk, that's what others set, i guess that it's for security reasons
00:17 < jim> MeiR, have you altered any config files on the remote? (where I'm going: what would happen if you reboot)
00:17 < registeringIsBad> stermorino are you talking about adding a new mode to xrandr?
00:17 < wasutton3> is this properly escaped for a crontab? "/bin/ln -s /foo/bar/target-directory/`/bin/ls -rt /foo/bar/target-directory | /bin/tail -n1` latest"
00:18 < mawk> for a company firewall maybe MeiR
00:18 < MeiR> they added allow rules for common ports like http and https and smtp, etc.
00:18 < mawk> then iptables -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport hkp -j ACCEPT
00:18 < mawk> no more no less
00:19 < MeiR> and for removing the current ones, iptables -D OUTPUT N, right?
00:19 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: pages 39-43 of the user guide make it clear, that device was designed with mostly analogue inputs and was on the cusp of digital TV introduction, it's designed for original 420p/720p 'HD'
00:19 < MeiR> and for knowing N, i will count the lines? or there's a way to show it in the list
00:19 < stefmorino> registeringIsBad: Nope; if you just run 'xrandr' by itself it should give you what you need to replace HDMI-1 with; as well as your supported resolutions (Mine saysDisplayPort-2 connected 3840x2160+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 600mm x 340mm | So I'd want to input --output DisplayPort-2. Look for the one that says connected.). I think the panning command should work, tell me what error you
00:19 < stefmorino> get if it does not.
00:20 < mawk> I gave the way to show line numbers MeiR
00:20 < mawk> iptables -L -v --lin
00:20 < MeiR> sorry, missed that one
00:21 < mawk> but still unless you have critical data that musn't be exfiltrated, setting an output firewall seems useless
00:21 < registeringIsBad> stermorino it says connected 1280x720, and gives a list of resolutions. 1366x768 is not an option there. I will try to add a panning area and see what happens
00:21 < phogg> Dagmar: if I did two DVDs a week it would take me at least a decade, more since I won't stop buying more
00:21 < mawk> especially when it's in OUTPUT and not FORWARD, i.e. it's a firewall for the machine itself that has been contaminated by some malware trying to get data out
00:22 < mawk> if the malware is already here I doubt it can't disable the firewall by a mean or another
00:23 < stefmorino> registeringIsBad: Is 1366x768 supposed to be supported by your monitor? If not, you really will need to create a custom resolution I believe.
00:23 < registeringIsBad> stermorino I ran xrandr --output HDMI-2 --mode 1280x720 --panning 1366x768
00:23 < registeringIsBad> stermorino according to the manual 1366x768 is the true pixel resolution
00:24 < registeringIsBad> stermorino but it is not an option within xrandr so I do believe I will have to add a new resolution
00:24 < stefmorino> It also could be caused by a driver issue, but maybe not
00:24 < registeringIsBad> I have to go for about 10 minutes, I'll let you know if adding a new mode works
00:24 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: have you just tried all the resolutions the TV reports to xrandr via it's EDID to find one that doesn't overscan ?
00:24 < registeringIsBad> TJ- yes
00:24 < registeringIsBad> Ill be back in 10
00:25 < jim> MeiR, can you do this on the remote: echo hi | nc termbin.com 9999
00:26 < MeiR> mawk, connection still hangs. i can see that the last OUTPUT rule in iptables is to drop all
00:26 < MeiR> so i guess that the rule should be added before it, right?
00:26 < MeiR> -I instead of -A ?
00:26 < mawk> yes indeed MeiR
00:26 < MeiR> jim, nothing happens
00:26 < mawk> iptables -I OUTPUT N ...
00:27 < mawk> replace N by the rule number you wish the rule had
00:27 < jim> MeiR, so does it go back to a shell prompt or does it "hang" before doing so?
00:28 < MeiR> mawk, i just omitted the N so it went first
00:28 < MeiR> but still connection time out
00:28 < mawk> yeah alright
00:28 < MeiR> it's a microsoft server
00:28 < MeiR> apt-key adv --keyserver packages.microsoft.com --recv-keys 52E16F86FEE04B979B07E28DB02C46DF417A0893
00:28 < mawk> you're sure it's the right port number ?
00:28 < MeiR> command taken from here
00:28 < MeiR> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/cli/azure/install-azure-cli-apt?view=azure-cli-latest
00:29 < mawk> also in INPUT do you have the rule for established/related connections ?
00:29 < MeiR> that's what i found on google
00:29 < jim> what do you want to accomplish by adding that key?
00:29 < MeiR> mawk, in INPUT also there're some specific ACCEPT rules, and the last is DROP ALL
00:30 < MeiR> jim, making apt-get trust the package
00:30 < MeiR> mawk, should i add the same rule also in input?
00:31 < djph> why would you ever need to accept a msft key in *nix?
00:31 < MeiR> djph: enter the link i sent :) it's for having Azure CLI
00:32 < djph> MeiR: well, that's your first mistake
00:32 < MeiR> what? using Microsoft Azure in the first place?
00:32 < djph> yep
00:32 < jim> MeiR, also another question: when you run the 'echo hi | nc termbin.com 9999', does it go back to a shell prompt right away, or does it "hang" before doing so?
00:33 < MeiR> heh, that's one of the company resources, not my desicion
00:33 < MeiR> jim: hangs
00:33 < djph> MeiR: i'm sorry
00:33 < jim> ok, so you can't use termbin
00:33 < AbleBacon> are you supposed to make a partition first, or a filesystem first?
00:34 < jim> that's too bad, its a great resource :)
00:34 < jim> AbleBacon, a partition is a container in which you would find (or make) a filesystem
00:34 < AbleBacon> aha! so that's what i did wrong probably
00:35 < registeringIsBad> I'm back
00:35 < jim> (there are at least one other kind of container, called a lv or logical volume, on which you'd also make a filesystem)
00:36 < zBrains> Hello! Could someone help me setup pidgin to connect to freenode? I tireid different configurations but I'm getting errors
00:36 < zBrains> I can't get ssl to work
00:37 < uplime> lolpidgin
00:37 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: see this and especially the "force-dvi" https://evilshit.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/how-to-remove-overscan-on-hdmi-1080p-output/
00:37 < toothe> anyone know how in Qemu to make two computers on a private switch?
00:37 < toothe> I am using the Manager "Virtual Machine Manager"
00:37 < stefmorino> registeringIsBad: https://github.com/kevinlekiller/linux_intel_display_overclocking I found this resource extremely useful; check the sections between Test the modeline with xrandr and edid Guide
00:38 < toothe> Its a redhat tool.
00:38 < registeringIsBad> Thank you
00:38 < noway96> so one can only use core files for debugging in the same machine that crashed
00:39 < stefmorino> registeringIsBad: Also you'll want to figure out with cvt what to set after --newline. Type 'cvt 1366x768 60' in the terminal to find out what to put
00:39 < registeringIsBad> TJ- i have already read that, force-dvi did not help
00:39 < mawk> configure them to use the same bridge toothe
00:39 < toothe> so, make a new bridge on Linux?
00:39 < toothe> on the base OS?
00:39 < mawk> normally virt-manager can do it for you
00:39 < mawk> it'd be on the base OS yes
00:39 < toothe> I'm using...i"m not sure what this GUI is calld.
00:39 < toothe> called*
00:40 < TJ-> registeringIsBad: but are there any other properties revealed by the query that could affect it?
00:40 < toothe> I think its literally called "Virtual Machine Manager"
00:40 < toothe> and based on the credits, its created by Redhat.
00:40 < toothe> anyone recommend a better one? I really don't like using terminal tools for VMs for some reason.
00:40 < registeringIsBad> TJ- I tried the "aspect ratio" property, which did not help
00:41 < registeringIsBad> gotta reboot to reset the tv, its glitching out
00:41 < registeringIsBad> brb again
00:41 < mawk> virt-manager toothe
00:41 < mawk> I use the same thing
00:41 < mawk> let me try
00:42 < toothe> mawk: have you ever gotten resizing working?
00:42 < toothe> thats prob the #2 reason I don't like using qemu over virtualbox -- but virtualbox crashe smy kernel now.
00:42 < MrPockets> Whats the difference between ADRAINE knoppix and just knoppix?
00:42 < mawk> like dynamic resizing ? I don't think so
00:42 < mawk> you could try with the qemu guest additions
00:42 < mawk> shipped by redhat too
00:43 < registeringIsBad> okay i should be back for good now
00:43 < stefmorino> registeringIsBad: What distro are you on, and what GPU and driver do yo have (if you know)?
00:43 < mawk> so toothe in your virt-manager you go into Edit -> Connection details -> Network Interfaces -> + -> Bridge
00:43 < registeringIsBad> stefmorino archlinux, using i3, intel GPU and driver
00:43 < mawk> create the bridge, don't add any system interfaces to it
00:43 < stefmorino> ]have you downloaded the xf86-video-intel package?
00:43 < mawk> then you can add a network card on each of your VM that will be connected to the bridge
00:44 < mawk> or you can maybe use the virtual network feature but I never used it toothe
00:45 < toothe> mawk: By "edit" do you mean the 'i" icon?
00:45 < mawk> no, in the menu bar
00:45 < mawk> file, edit, view, help
00:45 < toothe> I don't have edit under file...
00:46 < mawk> not under file
00:46 < toothe> ohhh, excuse me.
00:46 < mawk> at the same level
00:46 < mawk> the virtual network thing looks like it should work too
00:46 < mawk> it looks like some internal switch ran by qemu
00:47 < toothe> i see...interesting.
00:47 < toothe> mawk: thanks man!
00:47 < mawk> you're welcome
00:47 < toothe> mawk: Also, I see that 'spice' is enabled, but...resizing the window of a VM doesnt' do anything.
00:47 < mawk> spice is kinda mandatory
00:47 < mawk> that's how you see the screen
00:47 < mawk> you maybe need to install the qemu guest additions
00:48 < mawk> but it's nowhere as nice as the vbox additions, where you have dynamic resizing and stuff
00:48 < toothe> Okay, then I'm confused...
00:48 < mawk> but for a linux guest maybe it will work
00:48 < toothe> oh? well darn then...
00:48 < toothe> i actually prefer virtualbox, but the module for some odd reason crashe smy kernel.
00:48 < mawk> virtualbox works nice with all the sugar like that but qemu/virt-manager is way more configurable
00:49 < toothe> oh?
00:49 < mawk> especially with network
00:50 < registeringIsBad> stefmorino I just installed that package, what does it do?
00:50 < mawk> lol
00:50 < registeringIsBad> stermorino I just tried adding a new mode for 1366x768, and the tv refused to use it
00:50 < stefmorino> try restarting X
00:51 < compdoc> qemu/virt-manager is swell
00:51 < stefmorino> pkill X xinit (or your display manager)
00:53 < registeringIsBad> Okay I rebooted the x server
00:53 < stefmorino> anything different?
00:53 < registeringIsBad> the tv still refuses to use the new mode
00:53 < stefmorino> well, even if it wasn't that, you'll want that package
00:53 < stefmorino> unless you use wayland
00:53 < registeringIsBad> again, what does it do?
00:54 < stefmorino> it's a package that provides 2D acceleration to Xorg for intel iGPUS
00:55 < MeiR> mawk: any clue what additional steps should i take?
00:56 < MeiR> i added the same rulr also in top of INPUT, but still getting "gpg: keyserver timed out" on apt-key
00:56 < mawk> MeiR: do you have a rule like `iptables -A INPUT -m conntrack --ctstate ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT' ?
00:56 < MeiR> rule*
00:56 < mawk> if no, you should
00:56 < stefmorino> (also probably shouldn't just install things people say to install without looking up what they do first yourself; won't want to accidentally delete everything and nuke your motherboard because EFIvars were mounted rw)
00:56 < MeiR> nope. is it mandatory only for apt-key?
00:57 < mawk> it's pretty much mandatory for every sane firewall
00:57 < mawk> you want to allow connections YOU initiated to come back to you
00:57 < Dagmar> Well, EFI vars can at least be fixed
00:57 < lupine> sometimes you do
00:57 < Dagmar> mawk: Might want to mention that that rule should be early in the ruleset
00:57 < MeiR> i can really see that the "hkp" output rule have some pkts and bytes
00:57 < registeringIsBad> Dagmar I know, I had to flash my motherbord to fix them
00:57 < stefmorino> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/intel_graphics xf86-video-intel is mentioned in the intel archwiki article; I'd give it a read, maybe there's something there that you're missing; I don't know what you have installed at this point, nor do I use intel.
00:58 < mawk> yeah
00:58 < MeiR> so i guess that the "handshake" didn't complete
00:58 < mawk> yeah they are outgoing packets MeiR
00:58 < mawk> that tells nothing about the packets that come back
00:58 < Dagmar> especially if your'e like me and have _thousands_ of netblocks sh*tlisted at the firewall
00:58 < MeiR> adding your sueggestion with -I
00:59 < MeiR> mawk: CHEERS! thanks a lot
00:59 < mawk> depending on how you make the firewall it could look like this, in INPUT: allow loopback, reject INVALID, allow ESTABLISHED,RELATED, allow DHCP/mDNS/whatever multicast/broadcast service you have, allow your favorite ports, reset the tcp connections, send various ICMP rejection messages to other protocols
00:59 < mawk> and normally in OUTPUT you'd just accept anything because you're not making the firewall for the NSA headquarters
01:00 < notadrop> When I use firejail on Firefox in Ubuntu, the browser can't access the Internet. It can, however, still access pages on the local host and the LAN. Using the firefox.profile config file from Debian makes no difference. Firefox + firejail worked on Debian. Any ideas?
01:01 < mawk> what are the settings exactly ?
01:01 < mawk> you made a new network namespace ?
01:01 < notadrop> mawk: that is what I'm trying to figure out. there is firefox.profile, and then there is a whitelist, which is included... but there must be settings elsewhere.
01:02 < notadrop> mawk: not sure. firejail is pretty 'fire and forget'
01:02 < notadrop> mawk: unless that was done automatically for me, no.
01:02 < mawk> if you make a special network namespace just for firefox you're expected to also provide internet connectivity to it, with a virtual ethernet cable between the jail and the host, and your host acting as a router
01:02 < mawk> but I guess firejail does that automatically
01:02 < mawk> then it could be a firewall issue on your side
01:02 < mawk> but I know nothing about standard firejail behavior
01:03 < MeiR> mawk: thanks for the very useful information. i wish i had the desired knowledge to perform this right away
01:03 < notadrop> this is a very fresh install of (X)ubuntu
01:03 < MeiR> but i guess i'll right it down for later
01:03 < mawk> once you learn the iptables syntax it's pretty clear MeiR
01:03 < MeiR> still, there are terms like "reset the tcp connections"
01:03 < notadrop> nftables is supposed to be easier, no?
01:03 < notadrop> MeiR: well TCP is a stateful protocol, so
01:03 < MeiR> which are about understanding the context rather than command syntax
01:04 < notadrop> resetting the connection means
01:04 < mawk> yeah
01:04 < notadrop> ...
01:04 < notadrop> resetting the connection
01:04 < mawk> the part "reset the tcp connections, send various ICMP rejection messages to other protocols" is what you called DROP MeiR
01:04 < MeiR> notadrop, consider the fact i didn't even know that iptables can do that :)
01:04 < MeiR> i'm new to linux worlds
01:04 < mawk> here instead of dropping the packets I suggested to send a TCP reset to the other machine to notify the connection has been closed
01:04 < MeiR> world*
01:04 < notadrop> MeiR: welcome :^)
01:04 < mawk> then for other protocols like UDP I send a icmp-port-unreachable message, etc
01:04 < mawk> (iirc)
01:05 < notadrop> MeiR: be forewarned: https://xkcd.com/456/
01:07 < MeiR> LOL notadrop
01:07 < MeiR> long hair is part of the scene?
01:07 < MeiR> :D
01:08 < notadrop> MeiR: when you become a wizard... cutting or trimming hair anywhere on the body is no longer a priority
01:08 < xyxxy> I'm following the guide on https://www.hiroom2.com/2017/07/22/kalilinux-2017-1-xrdp-en/ to install xrdp on linux. i type in this command cat <<EOF | sudo patch -p1      then on the next line I get a > instead of the output shown on the website, why is that?
01:09 < MeiR> heh, i'll check it in next weeks ;)
01:09 < registeringIsBad> I wonder if i should just try to go with the option of making a blank space around the output, so it will cut off that and leave the rest of the picture
01:10 < registeringIsBad> I could probably do it through a framebuffer option
01:12 < MeiR> ok, now i encounter "Failed to fetch" with "404  Not Found" for two packages in apt-get. how can i replace the URLs with valid ones?
01:12 < MeiR> W: Failed to fetch http://mirror.jmu.edu/pub/mariadb/repo/10.0/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found
01:12 < MeiR> W: Failed to fetch http://mirror.jmu.edu/pub/mariadb/repo/10.0/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/binary-i386/Packages  404  Not Found
01:12 < djph> MeiR: /etc/apt/sources.list
01:12 < MeiR> i can see mariadb in other urls
01:14 < ajkthx>  hey guys, what would be the fastest possible transfer method for files across LAN for ubuntu to windows (and vice versa)? ive tried samba and ftp and they both top out at like 5-10mb/s for some reason
01:14 < djph> ajkthx: `0g ethernet, formatting the windows box
01:14 < djph> *10g ethernet
01:14 < ksk> ajkthx: 5-10 is kind of not constant?
01:15 < ajkthx> i mean, i download off lan at twice that speed so idk what the issue is
01:15 < djph> also, is it showing "mb" or "MB"? case matters
01:16 < d3x0r> turn off tcp offload on windows adapter ?
01:16 < registeringIsBad> djph of course its talking about millibits, one onethousandth of a bit
01:17 < ajkthx> its MB
01:17 < lightstream> could try http ajkthx
01:17 < d3x0r> and large send offload
01:17 < lightstream> ie put in your web server dir
01:17 < mawk> it's in a VM ajkthx ?
01:17 < d3x0r> https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsserver/en-US/bdc40358-45c8-4c4b-883b-a695f382e01a/very-slow-network-performance-with-intel-nic-when-tcp-large-send-offload-is-enabled?forum=winserverhyperv
01:17 < ajkthx> no, a separate machine
01:17 < ajkthx> 5 feet away
01:17 < ajkthx> both machines connected via ethernet cable
01:17 < mawk> unplug the hard drive, plug it in the linux machine
01:18 < mawk> very fast transfer times
01:18 < djph> ajkthx: so 10 MB is ~80 mbit = near on top speed for fast ethernet (100mbit/sec)
01:18 < lightstream> yeah could be one machine has only a 100 mbit/sec card
01:18 < ajkthx> i downloaded the same file im trying to transfer at 20mb/s....
01:18 < d3x0r> on both boxes?
01:18 < lightstream> and you see the greater speed on the machine with a gigabit card
01:18 < ajkthx> ya
01:19 < ajkthx> i tried downloading the same file on both boxes, they both top out at around 20mb/s
01:19 < djph> or one's wifi ...
01:19 < ajkthx> no, both wired
01:19 < mawk> both are ethernet he said
01:19 < djph> or both are wifi
01:19 < djph> mawk: oh, they *are* wired then?  missed that one.
01:19 < d3x0r> I've often seen hardware 'acceleration' on window cripple transfers
01:19 < mawk> yeah
01:19 < mawk> you could connect them directly ajkthx if you want
01:20 < mawk> if you only have a fast ethernet switch but both have gigabit cards
01:20 < mawk> setup static ips on a common range in both computers, no need to setup routing
01:20 < lightstream> would still get that as max d/l speed though mawk
01:20 < lightstream> (for internet xfer)
01:20 < mawk> yeah
01:20 < ajkthx> seems like something off if i can download a file from some random internet server faster than i can transfer a file via samba/ftp on a pc 5 feet away from me
01:21 < mawk> samba doesn't seem the fastest protocol on earth
01:21 < mawk> http should be a good suggestion, you also have rsync
01:21 < xyxxy> why does the following command return >            cat <<EOF | sudo patch -p1
01:22 < djph> because you're not done with the heredoc yetr
01:22 < djph> ajkthx: could be a crap read speed on the drive
01:22 < djph> or any number of other things
01:22 < ajkthx> it is a pretty shit drive
01:24 < ajkthx> you guys ever wish computers would just work instead of constantly give a hard time
01:24 < lightstream> is it one big file or lots of little ones ajkthx?
01:24 < DaleK5whr> they would if people would stop screwing with them
01:24 < lightstream> ftp isn't great for lots of little ones
01:25 < ajkthx> just 1 big file
01:25 < ajkthx> over samba
01:25 < GautamS> I seem to be able to detect my WiFi and even connect  to it, but wget and ping report: "Temporary failure in name resolution"
01:25 < ajkthx> tops out at like 11mb/s or so
01:25 < GautamS> Do I need an additional step?
01:25 < ajkthx> i can download the same file from a web server (internet) faster than that
01:26 < lightstream> what DNS are you using GautamS?
01:26 < lightstream> name resolution sounds like DNS failure
01:27 < GautamS> lightstream: Hmm
01:27 < GautamS> I haven't configured that
01:27 < lightstream> try connecting to an IP then
01:27 < lightstream> ping 8.8.8.8
01:28 < GautamS> 64 bytes from 8.8.8.8
01:28 < GautamS> and so on
01:28 < lightstream> so it's working, just you have no DNS
01:28 < GautamS> Ah thanks
01:31 < ajkthx> when will someone make a linux for normies
01:31 < notadrop> what
01:32 < notadrop> what's a normie?
01:33 < mawk> contents of /etc/resolv.conf GautamS ? also result of readlink /etc/resolv.conf
01:35 < GautamS> mawk: nameserver <IP>.10 nameserver <IP>.11 , readlink doesn't return anything
01:35 < mawk> try to ping these IPs
01:37 < GautamS> mawk: Yep, pinging works on both the IPs
01:37 < mawk> so they're alive but you can't resolve using them
01:37 < GautamS> I'm not really sure how would I go about configuring DNS
01:37 < GautamS> Yes
01:37 < mawk> are they addresses from your ISP ?
01:38 < GautamS> mawk: No.., they're a bit different
01:38 < triceratux> ajkthx: wont happen. linux is a playground for the 1337. 1337 first, linux 2nd
01:38 < GautamS> The first two bytes are the same
01:38 < mawk> should be from your ISP then
01:39 < GautamS> Should I change it to my IP?
01:39 < mawk> it's your ISP router that is pushing them
01:39 < mawk> no, to a valid dns server
01:39 < mawk> you could use 9.9.9.9 for quad9, 8.8.8.8 for google, 1.1.1.1 for cloudflare
01:39 < mawk> whatever you like
01:39 < mawk> quad9 is nice
01:39 < mawk> and if you don't like the malware blocking functionnality (aka lying dns) you can use 9.9.9.10
01:40 < GautamS> Oh nice that works
01:40 < GautamS> But, on reboot it is rewritten
01:40 < Neobenedict> any idea how I can do cat {file1,file2} > output.txt syntax in cron
01:40 < Neobenedict> I just end up with empty files
01:41 < ksk> Neobenedict: refer a (bash) script in cron, and do the work inside of that, place it at /usr/local/bin/
01:41 < mawk> yeah GautamS you need to tell your network managing software to not touch this file
01:41 < mawk> but a better way would be to configure this thing inside the network managing software itself
01:42 < mawk> so that if you're with a public hotspot for instance you can quickly restore the DHCP pushed dns servers
01:42 < Brainspackle> NetworkManager is the worst
01:43 < morf> ...because?
01:44 < Brainspackle> it renames devices and always gets in my way
01:44 < Brainspackle> it makes sense on a desktop i guess, but i hate how it's preinstalled on server images
01:44 < mawk> it's easy to tell it to not touch a specific device
01:45 < mawk> or to disable it altogether
01:45 < mawk> systemctl disable NetworkManager
01:48 < SpaceAce> my debian machine is rapidly running out of space and im not sure why. the root partiiton just keeps filling, maybe with logs? where can i find large files being created?
01:48 < SpaceAce> bash cmd, i mean
01:48 < mawk> ncdu
01:49 < SpaceAce> perfect thanks mawk
01:54 < mikhael_k33hl> I have a ruby script running, and I can't seem to stop it, a process will still be running when running (ps|pstree). https://gist.github.com/marzdgzmn/274292a33009ffaba0d5e5fa476868a1
01:54 < mikhael_k33hl> How do I completely stop it?
01:55 < GautamS> thanks a lot mawk, everything is working now
01:55 < GautamS> i just got done installing it
01:58 < mawk> mikhael_k33hl: using kill -SIGKILL
01:58 < mawk> if that's the only way
01:59 < mikhael_k33hl> mawk: May I ask how does systemd does it? It seems like it can trigger the functions on the same process using ExecStart and ExecStop. I would like to give my script a graceful shutdown if possible
02:00 < mawk> I guess systemd sends SIGINT or SIGQUIT or SIGTERM
02:00 < mawk> normally every sane language will quit when receiving such signals
02:00 < mawk> if they are not handled then the program will be terminated, and if they are handled the sane thing to do is do the cleanup and exit
02:00 < mawk> that's made with a signal handler, check ruby docs for that
02:02 < phogg> graceful shutdown is what SIGTERM is for
02:08 < AbleBacon> how do i create an "image tree source" of my linux installation?
02:08 < CashDash123> What is terminal only emacs called?
02:09 < backnforth> Hi, will someone help me diagnose why I'm not able to add a printer in cups? I get to the page that has the "Add printer" button but then after I click it and enter my username and password, the page hangs.
02:12 < mawk> how can I test my CFQ hacks ?
02:12 < mawk> I lowered the CFQ bandwidth/time share/whatever of a group of process
02:13 < mawk> I tried to dd a few gigabytes of /dev/zero, but it's the same speed; same thing with the hdparm drive cache test
02:13 < mawk> CashDash123: emacs-nox
02:13 < danieldg> are you sure the io scheduler was the bottleneck there?
02:14 < danieldg> usually it's the disk
02:14 < mawk> good question
02:14 < mawk> I thought I greatly lowered the CFQ bandwidth
02:14 < mawk> let me lower it a little more
02:15 < mawk> maybe it's because my system is idle and no other process is writing
02:15 < mawk> my process gets all the time share even though it has a small proportionnality coefficient
02:15 < danieldg> yeah, that's a problem with CPU scheduling too
02:17 < mawk> how can I fake lots of I/O operations without filling up my tiny ssd ?
02:17 < danieldg> reads
02:17 < mawk> I guess reading from a live disk should be innocuous, then dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/null should do it
02:17 < mawk> yes reads
02:18 < ananke> mawk: fio
02:18 < ananke> simple reading and using dd is not going to generate much I/O operations
02:20 < mawk> reading from the sandboxed process gets me 60 MB/s, and from the host it's 150 MB/s
02:20 < mawk> it's not a transcendental difference, given that the sandboxed process has the lowest priority and the host the highest priority
02:21 < mawk> thanks ananke
02:21 < ananke> mawk: bandwidth is very different from iops. while they're a bit related, neither is a good indication of what the other one can be
02:22 < ananke> on a side note, even 150MB/s seems very low for modern standards
02:23 < mawk> the host alone gets 270 MB/s, when the other process isn't running
02:25 < mawk> it's a old SSD, ananke
02:31 < Guthur> Hi, I'm trying to disable the Ctrl + l shortcut but can not find it in the keyboard shortcuts, linux mint cinnamon
02:31 < Guthur> any ideas?
02:31 < Guthur> ideally some file i can edit
02:31 < Sveta> what does that shortcut do
02:32 < Guthur> gives focus to input from what i can tell
02:33 < Guthur> for example in chrome it will go to the url/search input
02:33 < Guthur> but it interferes will my emacs bindings
02:34 < mawk> it depends on the application then I guess
02:37 < sauvin> Guthur, it interferes with your emacs bindings to emacs?
02:38 < mawk> actually it's the disk time I'm controlling, not the bandwidth
02:38 < mawk> it should be more related to the reading speed
02:39 < Guthur> sauvin: I'm beginning to believe it may have been a custom binding that i lost after a recent hard drive failure
02:40 < Acheron-a> Steven !!!!!!!!!!!!
02:40 < sauvin> Funny, when I ask if it's raining outside (yes/no), people often answer with stuff like "I had a bologna sandwich for lunch and now it's talking to me".
02:47 < mawk> lol sauvin
02:48 < jim> sauvin, especially funny when you consider my blogna has a first name, it's o s c a r...
02:49 < diogenese> now I have that song in my head... thanks
02:49 < jim> (oh, and no, it's not raining here :)
02:49 < stevendale> :P
02:50 < stevendale> Windows 10 has a factory data reset option :P
02:50 < jim> diogenese, one sec, I got a fix for that
02:51  * sauvin is having a very hard time keeping himself from saying something decidedly off-colour
02:51 < diogenese> oh no
02:52 < azizLIGHT> what method do you guys prefer to keep in contact with remote filesystem and browse from a local machine in gui
02:52 < jim> diogenese, listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR8OmDUu-Jk and all other songs will get scared!
02:54 < diogenese> that fixed it, yes
02:58 < djph> azizLIGHT: throwing away the GUI
03:01 < notadrop> ^
03:01 < azizLIGHT> whats wrong with gui
03:02 < azizLIGHT> i like to touch my buttons
03:02 < azizLIGHT> on a touchscreen
03:02 < sirwilliam> What is the command line equivalent of right clicking 'save page as'(.html) in chrome window.
03:03 < azizLIGHT> curl
03:03 < azizLIGHT> or wget
03:03 < sirwilliam> That was fast, lol.
03:03 < ananke> sirwilliam: rigth click, 'save as'
03:03 < ananke> 'right' even
03:03 < azizLIGHT> sirwilliam: just get the curl command from chrome
03:03 < ananke> ohh, nevermind. you want CLI equivalent
03:04 < sirwilliam> I think I'm using curl and wget wrong. Can you give me an example of a command to save the current page as html?
03:04 < azizLIGHT> sirwilliam: go to inspect element, network tab, and browse to page u wanna go to, and you will see page load in the timeline area
03:04 < sirwilliam> When I run it, it only saves an index, and not the whole page.
03:04 < azizLIGHT> then you right click that page u went to and copy as curl
03:04 < ananke> sirwilliam: define 'whole page'
03:05 < azizLIGHT> and give it to curl
03:06 < azizLIGHT> theres also extensions for chrome that can give you a direct curl command
03:06 < azizLIGHT> that include your cookies and whatever
03:06 < azizLIGHT> so you dont get rekt by a login page or something
03:06 < azizLIGHT> if the page is protected by those things
03:08 < stevendale> Get-AppxPackage -allusers | Remove-AppxPackage
03:09 < sirwilliam> azizLIGHT: thanks man! I'm trying your suggestions, ha ha
03:09 < sirwilliam> Just the current page not the whole website lol
03:10 < azizLIGHT> yup curl and wget are perfect for that
03:12 < sirwilliam> azizLIGHT: I'm thinking that the webpage pulls data from somewhere else, and curl isn't picking that data up but right click save as is.
03:12 < notadrop> sirwilliam: I've gotten different pages from curl, versus "save as" in browser.
03:12 < azizLIGHT> curl is only getting the html of the page you tell it
03:12 < sirwilliam> azizLIGHT: I'm trying to save this page: http://www.ewtn.com/daily-readings/
03:13 < notadrop> I think it had to do with the server thinking curl is a robot
03:13 < azizLIGHT> could be
03:22 < MarkusDBX> Smoothest way to select/copy/paste text inside a terminal/bash? I'm currently using tmux if that helps.
03:23 < sirwilliam> MarkusDBX: crtl+b then [
03:23 < sauvin> I just do the mouse thing with shift-ctrl-c and shift-ctrl-c, but I'm using Konsoles.
03:25 < sirwilliam> MarkusDBX: 1st step. ctrl+b then [ 2cd step. navigate to the beginning of what you want to copy 3rd step. ctrl+space until you've selected your text. 4th step alt+w to copy the text
03:28 < sirwilliam> MarkusDBX: lol, after ctrl+space use arrow keys, then control+b then ] will paste
03:28 < GautamS> I finally set up Arch with OpenBox :D
03:28 < Sveta> good
03:29 < GautamS> now just need to install a few development libs to make it functional for dev work
03:30 < jml2> GautamS, you are a hacker
03:31 < GautamS> jml2: lol
03:33 < stevendale> GautamS, pacman -S base-devel cmake clang
03:33 < stevendale> GautamS, pacman -S git wget
03:59 < mawk> how to use cgroups device whitelist ?
03:59 < mawk> I understand that the default value is to allow anything
03:59 < ayecee> flamboyantly
03:59 < mawk> lol
04:00 < mawk> the use would be for a user namespace, to allow the root inside to do some mknods
04:32 < BerenErchamion> ok
04:35 < mawk> ok
04:44 < sssilver_> hey guys, I have sshd running on my box and trying to scp stuff from my local machine, getting "open terminal failed: not a terminal" -- what gives?
04:45 < sssilver_> scp ./site.css silver@sh.x17.space:/var/www/example.com/site.css
04:45 < sssilver_> I can ssh without problems though
04:47 < sssilver_> auth happens fine
04:47 < mawk> where are you typing this ?
04:47 < sssilver_> on the local machine from which I'm trying to copy the file to the remote
04:48 < mawk> I mean in which window
04:48 < ananke> sssilver_: likely stuff in your ~/.bashrc or ~/.profile
04:48 < sssilver_> ananke: I use zsh on both machines
04:48 < sssilver_> but good culprit
04:48 < sssilver_> let me look into it
04:48 < sssilver_> mawk: not sure what you mean
04:49 < mawk> are you using a fancy software as a terminal emulator ? or just the regular konsole/gnome-terminal/whatever
04:49 < sssilver_> mawk: konsole
04:49 < mawk> alright
04:49 < sssilver_> ananke: my .zprofile: http://lpaste.net/364350 -- doesn't seem like it'd cause problems
04:50 < halftroll> what's a good way of parsing a very big .sql file ?
04:50 < sssilver_> halftroll: parsing for what purpose?
04:50 < sssilver_> actually executing the SQL in it?
04:50 < sssilver_> or like parsing it as a bunch of lines?
04:50 < halftroll> I executed a 310mb .sql by mistake
04:50 < halftroll> it turns out it's full of bs
04:50 < halftroll> now I need to know wtf I did execute
04:51 < sssilver_> halftroll: you need to read the file using eyeballs?
04:51 < halftroll> yep
04:51 < sssilver_> halftroll: $ less filename.sql should be plenty quick for skimming
04:51 < mawk> you're familiar with strace sssilver_ ?
04:51 < sssilver_> mawk: sure
04:52 < mawk> that'd be a quick way to know which operation gives this error message
04:52 < mawk> because it's intriguing
04:52 < sssilver_> mawk: on server sshd process?
04:52 < mawk> on the scp
04:52 < sssilver_> ow
04:53 < halftroll> sssilver_: thanks
04:53 < halftroll> I will try less
04:53 < ananke> less will try to calculate number of lines, so it will be a bit slow. 'more', while primitive, may be faster
04:54 < sssilver_> ananke: he won't be able to go back with more though, right?
04:54 < sssilver_> once he pages down
04:54 < ananke> sssilver_: sure he can. 'b'
04:54 < ananke> more is not that primitive :)
04:54 < sssilver_> ow, cool, #til
04:55 < halftroll> sssilver_: this guy form my work gave me the .sql of a project
04:55 < halftroll> can you believe the first thing the file does is use mysq; and drop everything and creates again ?
04:55 < halftroll> even worse than that, I didn't care to read the file first
04:55 < sssilver_> halftroll: I believe anything, that's why I never blindly execute stuff
04:55 < sssilver_> even if the person who wrote it is myself, a month ago
04:56 < sssilver_> you're lucky it was ignorance, sometimes you get malice too ;)
04:57 < sssilver_> mawk: here's the -vv output -- http://lpaste.net/364351
04:57 < sssilver_> let me strace
04:57 < halftroll> hehe
04:57 < ananke> halftroll: sounds like a typical mysql dump
04:57 < mawk> it looks like a server-side message
04:57 < halftroll> ananke: I wonder if it's as bad as it looks
04:58 < halftroll> I mean, maybe his dump isn't from the same mysql version I am using
04:58 < ananke> halftroll: so far nothing you said looks 'bad'
04:58 < ananke> halftroll: frankly, you keep talking talking about it like it's a problem, with no signs of a problem in sight
04:59 < halftroll> I execute 310mb of sql from a work mate, can't login to my local database anymore
04:59 < halftroll> mysqld_safe shows 10 new users
05:00 < halftroll> and this sql is copying someones elses critical tables that shouldn't be touch
05:00 < halftroll> in my computer without my consent
05:05 < halftroll> from my point of view doing use mysql; is like commiting non project specific data to a repo
05:05 < halftroll> anyway thanks!
05:06 < ananke> halftroll: none of what you said means much, because it lacks context
05:08 < sauvin> There *is* a #mysql channel on Freenode where you'll find folks who know a lot more about it than we do.
05:12 < halftroll> sauvin: ananke thanks!
05:17 < stevendale> halftroll, can I shoot you
05:24 < jim> stevendale, shooting people is offtopic :P
05:25 < ayecee> also rude
05:25 < jim> and loud
05:27 < halftroll> stevendale: no you can't
05:29 < RedFlash> Hey, is anyone able to help me with a boot problem I'm having with Linux Mint 18.3? Here are some details https://redd.it/89lupw
05:38 < LuvIsBad2TheBone> RedFlash: the welcome screen comes with hexchat, leads u direct in lm help channel
05:39 < RedFlash> I am there too, however I'm pursuing multiple routes of attack
05:41 < LuvIsBad2TheBone> oh u are jimmy
05:41 < RedFlash> Yeah
05:41 < oda> A package I'm trying to build says "The makefile supports a flag THRIFT_STATIC=true" on their website.  How do I use that flag?  I tried setting it as and environmental variable with `export THRIFT_STATIC=true` but it made no difference.  Do I have to edit the makefile itself?
05:41 < oda> ( the software in question is http://altrepo.eu/git/purple-line, but I don't think that matters.  I'm just trying to figure out how to use a flag)
05:42 < jim> LuvIsBad2TheBone, please spell out u as you, it helps people (particularly new english speakers) to understand, at least, most of what's going on
05:43 < LuvIsBad2TheBone> its bad habit
05:43 < stevendale> Hey LuvIsBad2TheBone
05:43 < stevendale> Look who is here :)
05:43 < LuvIsBad2TheBone> i c stevendale :)
05:44 < LuvIsBad2TheBone> how are you?
05:44 < sauvin> Don't learn, do you?
05:47 < earendel> hi. will "a | b" wait for a to exit before it starts b? or will a and b run simoultanously?
05:47 < Sitri> The latter
05:47 < earendel> oh really? cool.
05:49 < albrecht> I have what may be a dumb question:  How much difference is there in using a rolling release like Arch and another distro's "unstable" branch?
05:49 < jim> they both run at the same time, with the stdout of a connected to the stdin of b
05:51 < jim> like debian? in that case, the unstable branch is never "released" (although it is made available), and package from it that don't have bugs for awhile "leak" into the testing branch
05:51 < earendel> what if a starts sending data before b manages to initiate consuming it..will it be buffered and flushed as soon b is "ready" ?
05:52 < jim> earendel, I think so
05:53 < ananke> albrecht: that's impossible to answer
05:53 < albrecht> ananke: to be fair, I did say it was possibly a dumb question, haha
05:54 < ananke> albrecht: or rather, it could yield so many answers, it likely would miss the target. we'd need more context
05:54 < earendel> the stable realeases are more stable
05:58 < Sitri> ananke: seq 9999999 | tee /dev/stderr | (sleep 5; cat > /dev/null)
05:59 < Sitri> Also `man 7 pipe`
05:59 < Sitri> (if your next question is "what is the 7?", then `man man`)
06:00 < ananke> Sitri: not sure how that's relevant to anything I've said
06:00 < ananke> Sitri: got confused perhaps?
06:00 < Sitri> Derp
06:00 < Sitri> Tab complete fail
06:01 < Sitri> albrecht: ^
06:01 < Sitri> ...
06:01 < Sitri> I am really tired
06:01 < earendel> thanks.
06:01 < Sitri> Yay!
06:01 < earendel> :)
06:13 < MDTech-us_MAN> Hello all
06:14 < MDTech-us_MAN> is it possible for a file descriptor opened by one user to be used by another?
06:14 < MDTech-us_MAN> or is that something that should be blocked?
06:14 < Sitri> What's your use-case here?
06:14 < MDTech-us_MAN> I'm building a fuse file system
06:15 < stevendale> Hi :)
06:15 < MDTech-us_MAN> I'm just concerned if I should be blocking such reads
06:15 < MDTech-us_MAN> or writes
06:15 < MDTech-us_MAN> so, is it somethign generally allowed?
06:15 < Sitri> I don't think fd's can cross process boundries, however a process can change which user it is.
06:16 < stevendale> So Microsoft decided that my Intel GM45 graphics should only get OpenGL 1.1 and partial 1.4 on Windows 10 when it gets complete 2.1 support on Windows XP... Good on ya Microsoft!
06:16  * stevendale downgrades to XP
06:16 < Sitri> Did you mean to post to ##Windows?
06:18 < MDTech-us_MAN> Sitri: thought so
06:18 < stevendale> I wonder if Mesa updates on Linux are still supporting that card
06:18 < stevendale> It does 2D really well, it can't handle 3G open world games very well, onless they're Torchlight II :P
06:18 < MDTech-us_MAN> so such a check makes no sense
06:18 < MDTech-us_MAN> thx
06:20 < doodadjs> stevendale: Maybe try Linux with a bootable media (CD/DVD/USB stick/...) and see if it supports your hardware better. XP is end-of-life I think
06:22 < sssilver_> another problem -- can anyone help me debug why my php7-fpm won't work with my nginx? I just get the php source in the server response; it won't get interpreted by PHP
06:22 < sssilver_> I have been banging my head against this for hours now
06:22 < sssilver_> no errors in nginx error log
06:22 < sssilver_> just getting an index.php log in the access log that returns the file contents in response
06:22 < Sitri> You're probably not passing anything to php-fpm, can you paste your config/
06:23 < sssilver_> yes Sitri -- http://lpaste.net/4887413603046522880
06:24 < sssilver_> note that this isn't the "default" nginx site; I only need PHP for one of my subdomains
06:24 < sssilver_> also ew that indentation, I should reformat it to 4 spaces instead
06:24 < Sitri> Are you doing a request for / or /index.php ?
06:25 < sssilver_> Sitri: /index.php
06:26 < sssilver_> holy shit I had <? instead of <?php
06:26 < sssilver_> thanks for looking into this Sitri you're awesome
06:28 < dannylee> hi
06:28 < alexey-nemovff> hi everyone
06:28 < jim> hi
06:29 < Sitri> sssilver_: Is it working now then?
06:29 < sssilver_> yes!
06:29 < Sitri> Alright
06:30 < dannylee> i was sick for the last 5 days..but now i`m doing better..it was a stomach bug..and i felt like dying
06:36 < dannylee> i just install fedora27 LXDE and its great..and ups is bringing me a new machine tomarrow..and i might put ubuntu gnome on it
06:45 < dannylee> i let you guys go
06:45 < pottsy> wait a few days and ubuntu is gnome
06:45  * sauvin is running kubuntu
06:46 < albrecht> I run a minimal debian on my laptop and my VPS - Still trying to figure out which distro to use for my gaming rig though.
06:48 < [R]> well if you use debian and you know debian, go for it
06:48  * Bashing-om runs xubuntu-core
06:48 < jim> ubuntu is a debian deriv, which should mean all debian packages should be available for it
06:49 < Bashing-om> jim: with prudent care :)
06:49 < albrecht> [R]: I was thinking about it - I was considering taking my first crack at an on-metal Arch install though
06:49 < [R]> albrecht: i mean, if you goal is to have a broken system from day 1... go for it
06:50 < albrecht> [R]: lol - breaks don't seem as common as some say
06:50 < [R]> albrecht: if you say so
06:51 < tabsterleir> Just don't run GNOME on Arch and you won't get breakages. Better yet, just don't run GNOME ;)
06:53 < [R]> lol
06:59 < albrecht> tabsterleir: Yeah, I've not been a fan since they moved away from 2.x
07:00 < tabsterleir> I'm running Plasma 5.12 here. 5.12 has been the "just werks" release on X11, it's great.
07:04 < albrecht> Currently toying with i3wm, myself.  I didn't want to install a full DE with all the extra crap. Only the software I need/want
07:23 < sssilver_> can one create a CNAME record on example.com for subdomain.example.com to point at a completely different domain, say foo.com?
07:26 < Dagmar> sssilver_: Yeah
07:54 < alexey-nemovff> [R]: I even consider Arch Linux more stable than Ubugntu..
07:55 < alexey-nemovff> albrecht: WMs rule!
07:55 < [R]> alexey-nemovff: if you say so...
07:55 < Dagmar> Even a monkey can produce the works of Shakespear, given enough time
07:55 < hexnewbie> Considering a rolling release stable won't make non-rolling any time soon.
07:56 < alexey-nemovff> it's a shame Arch Linux got infected with the monster
07:57 < hexnewbie> alexey-nemovff: You're against inclusion of software packages?
07:57 < albrecht> alexey-nemovff: I assume you're talking about systemd?
07:57 < alexey-nemovff> you're right albrecht
07:57 < [R]> yeah, that evil systemd...
07:58 < alexey-nemovff> hexnewbie: no,
07:58 < hexnewbie> systemd has a lot of faults, but any headache systemd can cause would probably be minor compared to the headache caused by running an unstable release
07:59 < alexey-nemovff> hexnewbie: with inclusion of packages do you mean getting a bloated distro?
08:00 < hexnewbie> alexey-nemovff: I thought you were talking about GNOME. (One usually doesn't specify subjects only if they had been mentioned in the discussion)
08:00 < alexey-nemovff> he he ok
08:00 < [R]> hexnewbie: a lot of faults... like being awesome?
08:00 < alexey-nemovff> I don't like GNOME since 3.x as you said
08:01 < alexey-nemovff> st
08:01 < hexnewbie> [R]: Yes, that's actually a fault! It makes you like it. Then it stabs you in the back. Then it makes you like it again. Tricksy little init system
08:01  * NGC3982 re-writes the wiki page on [R] to '[R] - Awesome'
08:03 < alexey-nemovff> [R]: stop trolling or making us believe you are a systemd lover
08:04 < alexey-nemovff> respect other's opinions as I respect other's using systemd
08:04 < hexnewbie> Besides, systemd seems to have an alibi for all misdeeds it's suspected in. Default systemd behaviour of aggressive activation has been adopted by udev, kernel, md, so you no longer know if systemd had any involvement in killing your system. :)
08:05 < [R]> alexey-nemovff: its fabulous
08:05 < alexey-nemovff> hexnewbie: I think I know you from somewhere else
08:05 < [R]> alexey-nemovff: i ove being able to override random parts of a sevice file without having to andomly overwrite a system file
08:06 < NGC3982> what is systemd?
08:06 < hexnewbie> NGC3982: A superior init system from the future
08:07 < alexey-nemovff> far from being superior
08:07 < jim> systemd is a new thing that's taken over the tasks involved in starting and shutting down a system
08:07 < NGC3982> like init.d?
08:08 < jim> yeh
08:08 < [R]> its 8 years old
08:08 < [R]> i dunno if its still "new"
08:08 < jim> in comparison with what was there, it's newer
08:09 < hexnewbie> NGC3982: Well, yeah. Except init.d is not actually a thing, but a bunch of scripts called by another bunch of scripts called by another bunch of scripts with an ancient init system underneath that barely does any of the work. systemd also supports the init.d scripts (albeit as a transitional feature, so if you like them, it does not)
08:09 < NGC3982> hexnewbie: i see.
08:10 < NGC3982> hexnewbie: is it likely that we will see systemd as a new standard for us using standard distrubutions (if such a thing exist), in the near future?
08:10 < inquorate> [R]: it's newer than my laptop
08:10 < [R]> NGC3982: all sane dists use it...
08:10 < jim> the older init system implemented various operating modes called "runlevels"
08:11 < hexnewbie> Hm, reminds me I actually have a systemd question. If it drops me into root shell because my /var/share/wikipedia failed to mount, and I fix the mountpoint... How do I complete the boot?
08:11 < kurahaupo> hexnewbie: usually just "exit"
08:11 < hexnewbie> In the old days you did ‘telinit 3’, which systemd seems to try to interpret for compatibility reasons, but it quite didn't (although it resulted in daemons starting up)
08:12 < hexnewbie> kurahaupo: OK, I'll try that next time it happens
08:12 < NGC3982> [R]: oh, already? im on ubuntu 17.10 and i use init.d.. :)
08:12  * lopid will stick to its insane distro
08:12 < [R]> 17.10 uses systemd
08:12 < kurahaupo> At worst it will reboot, and since you've fixed the mount point, it should work
08:12 < hexnewbie> kurahaupo: Thanks for the suggestion
08:12 < [R]> but it has crappy compataiblity stuff for ancient init.d scripts
08:12 < alexey-nemovff> we can say now that this "standard" systemd is like Winbugs, not because it's the most common/used means it's the best
08:13 < NGC3982> [R]: i see. i haven\\
08:13 < NGC3982> [R]: i see. i haven't even noticed.*
08:13 < [R]> NGC3982: exactly...
08:13 < [R]> people hate on systemd just because its somethign to hate on
08:13 < hexnewbie> kurahaupo: Well, my /var/share/wikipedia randomly fails to mount (probably Debian, not systemd to blame, but still), so I fix it by simply mounting it. I was wondering how to avoid a reboot every time it happens. :)
08:14 < hexnewbie> Or rather, some of the LVs on my laptop randomly fail to mount, for whatever reason.
08:17 < alexey-nemovff> a lot of people dislike systemd because of several reasons with foundation
08:17 < alexey-nemovff> [R]: ^
08:18 < [R]> lol
08:19 < alexey-nemovff> you can't hide/minimize the truth just because you think it doesn't exist
08:19 < [R]> "the truth"?
08:21 < albrecht> I mean, I get the "politics" of why some people are so opposed: It's not really adherant to the GNU philosophy, and there are some tinfoi hatters that think it's Fedora/RH trying to monopolize linux
08:21 < alexey-nemovff> GNU/Linux communities have been splitted
08:21 < albrecht> but I don't see them offering any truly viable alternatives
08:21 < alexey-nemovff> [01:21:22]  <alexey-nemovff> GNU/Linux communities have been splitted because of systemd
08:22 < alexey-nemovff> that truth
08:22 < lopid> that is wrong. it's "split", not "splitted"
08:22 < bazhang> alexey-nemovff, there was a fork for debian devuan
08:22 < albrecht> thank you for that contribution lopid :P
08:22 < alexey-nemovff> exactly bazhang
08:22 < bazhang> alexey-nemovff, that's not a split
08:22  * albrecht pulls up monty python "SPLITTER!" meme
08:23 < lopid> thank you for THAT contribution, albrecht
08:23 < alexey-nemovff> I meant divided
08:23 < bazhang> alexey-nemovff, is this the appropriate place to dislike systemd
08:23 < spammcoin> DECIMATED!!
08:23 < [R]> alexey-nemovff: because people are haters
08:23 < Amm0n> Hhey, i'm looking for a configuration in Firefox. Browsing imgur for example with a lot content with sound, opens these streams under applications in pavucontrol. One for every site with sound. My problem now is, that these stay, even if i clean all cache/history from firefox settings. If i close the imgur tab all streams in pavucontrol vanish. Anyone got what i mean?
08:24 < Sitri> Honestly, systemd would be fine if it wasn't trying to infect /everything/
08:24 < [R]> Sitri: what?
08:24 < Sitri> udevd, a bootloader and a few other things
08:25 < [R]> you dont have to use any of that
08:25 < Sitri> udevd was forked specifically because of systemd.
08:25 < Sitri> Right, but extra work had to be done to enable that
08:25 < [R]> huh?
08:25 < [R]> i know of maybe 1 dist that uses systemd-boot?
08:25 < [R]> no "extra" work not to use it
08:25 < Sitri> A fork is a non-zero amount of effort
08:25 < [R]> ?
08:25 < alexey-nemovff> [R]: you're wrong.. communities have been divided because some don't care that much and others want freedom, not to be impose to use systemd
08:25 < [R]> lol
08:26 < bazhang> Sitri, which distro replaced grub
08:26 < [R]> for a billion years everyone used sysvinit
08:26 < [R]> and no one bitched and moaned
08:26 < Sitri> [R]: To continue using udevd, people had to fork it because upstream became consumed by systemd
08:26 < [R]> "had to"?
08:26 < [R]> lol
08:27 < bazhang> Sitri, you said a bootloader, which distro replaced grub
08:27 < Sitri> bazhang: Not my point
08:27 < Sitri> [R]: The current main repo of udevd needs systemd, hence the fork
08:27 < bazhang> Sitri, you raised as a point, please clarify
08:27 < [R]> so use systemd...
08:27 < Sitri> No.
08:28 < alexey-nemovff> remember GNU/Linux stands out for having a variety of options
08:28 < [R]> alexey-nemovff: where was all this complaining when there was only sysvinit?
08:28 < Sitri> bazhang: My point was clear the first time.  To continue using that project you need to use the pre-systemd version or fork it.
08:29 < Sitri> sysvinit didn't require everything to change to suit it...
08:29 < [R]> lol
08:29 < Sitri> And allowed for other initd's to work without issue
08:29 < bazhang> Sitri, ubuntu never did, they use grub
08:29 < [R]> because it was the first...
08:29 < Sitri> bazhang: AGAIN.  Not my point.
08:29 < [R]> allowe dfor other inits?
08:29 < [R]> what the hell does that even mean
08:29 < [R]> it WAS init
08:29 < alexey-nemovff> albrecht: there are better systems alternatives
08:29 < Sitri> [R]: It wasn't the /only/ init, and switching /was/ trivial.  Now it isn't.
08:30 < [R]> lol
08:30 < [R]> for a veyr long time
08:30 < [R]> it was the only one
08:30 < Sitri> The only one installed by default maybe
08:30 < [R]> lol
08:30 < Sitri> But others existed
08:31 < [R]> haha
08:33 < Sitri> inits that predate systemd: initng, upstart, launchd, openrc, runit...
08:33 < Sitri> Seriously, you sound like an idiot
08:33 < [R]> upstart: Initial release	August 24, 2006; 11 years ago
08:33 < [R]> i mean... i can continue...
08:33 < Sitri> Systemd was 2010
08:33 < albrecht> upstart...an init so great that its developers replaced it with....systemd
08:33 < bazhang> Sitri, is that appropriate, the name calling?
08:33 < [R]> openrc: Initial release	5 April 2007; 10 years ago
08:34 < sauvin> He didn't call any names.
08:34 < Sitri> bazhang: If you're going to highlight me, I'd appreciate if you read things.
08:34 < [R]> runit: Initial release	February 10, 2004; 14 years ago[1]
08:34 < bazhang> 'sound like an idiot' OK
08:35 < bazhang> openrc is gentoo iirc [R]
08:35 < [R]> and only since 0.25 can openrc replace /sbin/init
08:35 < [R]> so, i think i'll stop now
08:35 < [R]> because you're the one that sounds like an idiot
08:35 < Sitri> Yeah, I'm not arguing with someone who thinks that 2004 came after 2010
08:35 < [R]> and before 2004?
08:35 < [R]> lol
08:36 < kuri0> Why doesn't SSLStrip output passwords for HTTPS logins but if I change the address in the login to HTTP it works and prints the password
08:36 < [R]> was linuix created in 2004?
08:36 < jim> okok, this really does need to stop... systemd and people without names need a rest
08:36 < kuri0> isn't SSLstrip supposed to downgrade it to http ?
08:36 < alexey-nemovff> [R]: the complaining started with  systemd wrong design, becoming like a monster.. if you are going to improve something, do it better, no the other way
08:37 < [R]> alexey-nemovff: "like a monster"?
08:37 < Sveta> alexey-nemovff: they tried to make it better for enterprise i think
08:37 < Sveta> alexey-nemovff: for deploying to a large number of computers, they needed lots of features that an average desktop user does not need...
08:41 < fourroot> guys
08:41 < fourroot> i cant able to wget with specefic path
08:41 < fourroot> like
08:41 < fourroot> wget website.com/file.ext -O /var/tmp/BINGO.ext <-- it just creates an empty file with the given name
08:41 < fourroot> what problem could it be
08:42 < alexey-nemovff> [R]: yep, systemd is monster.. wanting to handle more and more..
08:42 < [R]> alexey-nemovff: lol
08:42 < lopid> try giving it a protocol
08:42 < fourroot> i've
08:43 < fourroot> http & https both
08:43 < [R]> alexey-nemovff: so you're saying you're against 1 package that provides multiple functions?
08:44 < fourroot> Guys please help me
08:44 < fourroot> im connected to a server
08:44 < fourroot> i really need your help man
08:45 < [R]> fourroot: it helps if you actually tell us what you are doing
08:45 < lopid> what do you see?
08:45 < fourroot> I'm operating a server through webshell
08:45 < alexey-nemovff> [R]: I know where you're going, I'm not the only one who dislikes this init system + service manager with wrong design that compromises the whole security system
08:45 < fourroot> i can delete , rename and create files
08:45 < [R]> alexey-nemovff: lol
08:45 < fourroot> but when i try to download a file with specefic path, its not letting it do it
08:45 < [R]> alexey-nemovff: compromises security!?
08:45 < [R]> rofl
08:46 < fourroot> it only creates an empty file with defined name
08:46 < [R]> [11:45:06] <[R]> fourroot: it helps if you actually tell us what you are doing
08:46 < fourroot> OH GOD
08:46 < Sitri> alexey-nemovff: don't bother, he's consumed all of the kool-aid
08:46 < alexey-nemovff> I saw Sitri
08:47 < fourroot> [R] i've explained alreafy :(
08:47 < [R]> fourroot: you havn'et explained anyting
08:47 < [R]> you gave some ficticious command
08:47 < [R]> thats about it
08:47 < [R]> and said "it doesnt work"
08:48 < fourroot> Okay, gimme a minute
08:49  * sauvin yawns
08:50 < fourroot> I've web shell uploaded on server "X". What i want to do is, i want to download a PDF file (FILE.PDF) TO a specefic path on server (/var/www/html/uploads/docs/FILE.PDF). I've tried it using wget -O and wget -P, but after executing these commands, it just creates an empty file with given name (FILE.PDF) at my specified path.
08:50 < [R]> and the command you are using is...
08:50 < fourroot> wget https://website-with-pdf/FILE.pdf -O /var/www/html/uploads/docs/FILE.PDF
08:51 < [R]> i mean
08:51 < [R]> i can just copy/paste what i've already said...
08:51 < [R]> but i feel like we'll get stuck in an endless loop
08:51 < fourroot> <[R]> and the command you are using is... ==> wget https://website-with-pdf/FILE.pdf -O /var/www/html/uploads/docs/FILE.PDF
08:51 < [R]> thats not the command
08:52 < [R]> unleslss you have website-with-pdf in your /etc/hosts...
08:52 < fourroot> OH
08:52 < fourroot> do i have to add that website in /etc/hosts ?
08:52 < fourroot> isn't there any other way to do it
08:52  * [R] just gives up...
08:52  * fourroot gives up as well, and starts googling
08:53 < bookworm> fourroot: [R] is right you know... the command you say you run won't work
08:54 < bookworm> but googling is a very nice thing to do, better would be `man`
08:54 < za1b1tsu> Anyone having linux on vmware fusion, did you manage to get accurate system monitoring information(cpu temp, battery, ram usage) on their bar? (polybar, xfce-panel, lx-panel, does not matter)
08:54 < fourroot> bookworm, do i have to add the website with PDF in /etc/hosts ?
08:54 < fourroot> to wget it to server
08:54 < bookworm> no
08:54 < fourroot> then
08:55 < bookworm> but you need to specify a host to transfer it *to*
08:55 < fourroot> write down the command
08:55 < fourroot> example
08:56 < fourroot> :(
08:57 < bookworm> can't you use scp lika a sane person?
08:57 < bookworm> like*
08:57 < alexneudatchin> use C with sockets
08:59 < bookworm> I mean wget isn't exactly meant to do that...
08:59 < bookworm> https://superuser.com/a/482710
09:00 < albrecht> fourroot: /me has no problem grabbing a file on my vps from the web with wget...
09:00 < CopperSnow> Shouldn't the -O part be before the URL? assuming you're ssh'd to the server you want it on
09:00 < albrecht> well I certainly fubar-ed that one
09:01 < alexneudatchin> if you dk what's get request so you should not mess with this stuff
09:02 < bookworm> wait, he is trying to pull *on* the server not push to it? now that should be easy
09:03 < alexneudatchin> https://github.com/alexeyneu/currency-rate-sample/blob/b67ce43eeed3940cff6502568de4797a752b3b28/Source1.cpp#L74
09:03 < alexneudatchin> but it's ssl
09:03 < [R]> lets contineu randomly guessing what hes doing!
09:03 < [R]> it's quite the fun
09:03 < bookworm> fun for the whole family \o/
09:04 < albrecht> At this point I'm assuming they're doing something they're not supposed to and stepping back xD
09:05 < alexneudatchin> no ssl but POST :https://github.com/alexeyneu/json-demo/blob/884b2a117cf8274559b4ee194fce0bd12b1c51de/json_c_linux/json_c_linux.cpp#L36
09:08 < edd_lc> if i got alsa, is that just the drivers and api for developers? and i need to find some other software that gives me the UI to volume etc?
09:08 < edd_lc> if so, how do i find it? if not, is alsamixer the only cli for alsa?
09:08 < bookworm> alsamixer is one
09:09 < [R]> only cli?
09:09 < [R]> how many volume control interfaces does one need!?
09:09 < edd_lc> :)
09:09 < edd_lc> well, maybe when you install x-utils, it gives you more binaries
09:09 < edd_lc> then again, i dont know much so expect mistakes
09:10 < edd_lc> theres a tray icon with the volume that gives me limited control. in the about it's called "tray icon", how can i find out its name? id like to replace it
09:11 < edd_lc> right now, ive got headphones connected but music plays out both speakers and headphones. through the tray right click, there's no option to mute only the speakesr. so i had to do it through alsamixer. because of this, i want to change whoever's in the tray to something with better controls
09:11 < bookworm> which DE?
09:11 < edd_lc> i3
09:11 < edd_lc> just window tiles
09:12 < bookworm> I see, but then you have installed it by yourself ;) so shame on you
09:12 < bookworm> xprop and click on the tray, see what that gives you
09:12 < FLeiXiuS> Anyone have any ideas why I can resolve DNS as root but not as an SSSD AD user.
09:12 < edd_lc> well, i downloaded manjaro i3. a neat little package with a bunch of stuff
09:12 < bookworm> might not work though
09:12  * bookworm bails
09:12 < FLeiXiuS> I assume systemd-resolve is a culprit.
09:13 < edd_lc> ran xprop through my dbar, clicked. but, you
09:13 < edd_lc> re right, nothing happened
09:14 < edd_lc> sorry, my bad. chose background when i needed the terminal output. it gave me i3bar
09:14 < edd_lc> let me see if i can't find something in its config file
09:14 < edd_lc> thanks for the help, so far. i hope you had a parachute ready for that high altitude bail maneuver
09:15 < bookworm> nah, that'd just be "tray"
09:15 < bookworm> fire up htop and find the process
09:16 < bookworm> may have either alsa or mixer in its name...
09:18 < bookworm> edd_lc: but if you click on the tray so that the controls appear, have you tried xprop on that?
09:19 < edd_lc> also thought something along those lines. i figured maybe the i3bar's config will show what it starts up
09:19 < edd_lc> bookworm: i dumped xprop ontop of the volume icon
09:19 < edd_lc> bookworm: let me try something else
09:19 < bookworm> it is literally just a tray placeholder, thought about that too for a moment
09:20 < bookworm> it might be in your normal i3 config though, but who knows
09:21 < edd_lc> bookworm: it does look like that, yes, in the i3 config. i think its alsamixer because of bindsym $mod+Ctrl+m exec terminal -e 'alsamixer'
09:21 < Kremator> guys, how can (by terminal) force to move the screen focus to a tty?
09:21 < edd_lc> but, when i use that bind, it opens up a GUI. when i pop that in the terminal, it's just a CLI
09:22 < Kremator> in other words, how can i make by terminal the effect of CTRL + ALT + F1
09:22 < edd_lc> so, i feel like im at 70-80% of the problem. still not 100%, though
09:23 < bookworm> edd_lc: so pkill alsamixer and see if the tray disappears
09:23 < albrecht> Kremator: see <<  man chvt  >>
09:24 < Kremator> albrecht, holy... thanks1
09:24 < edd_lc> bookworm: sorry, i wasn't clear. the icon itself looks like `volumeicon` because of "exec --no-startup-id volumeicon". also, ps -ef confirms volumeicon is up. killing its pid makes the volume icon disappears
09:25 < bookworm> there you go
09:25 < bookworm> and now off you go to install proper Arch ;P
09:25 < bazhang> hah
09:25 < edd_lc> bookworm: now, the story is, that once i click "open mixer" and get the crippled controls, it is the same as the "bindsym" above which hints it executes 'alsamixer'. problem is, it starts a GUI control while running alsamixer myself runs as CLI
09:26 < edd_lc> lol
09:26 < Kremator> albrecht, when i try chvt 1 for example i get "Couldn't get a file descriptor referring to the console"
09:26 < Kremator> bookworm, there's not such thing as proper arch
09:26 < edd_lc> what should i replace this with? i dont mind alsa, i think its doing a good job. i mind the exposed GUI controls (the CLI is great)
09:26 < Kremator> edd_lc, simple, remove the GUI
09:26 < bookworm> alsamixer is a ncurses interfache
09:26 < Kremator> use that chip headless or in a TTy
09:27 < bookworm> interface*
09:27 < albrecht> Kremator: I believe it requires elevated privileges
09:27 < bookworm> just remove that volumeicon thingy
09:28 < bookworm> fire up alsamixer in a terminal and you are all fine
09:29 < edd_lc> bookworm: ok, well now that i understand what happens - "volumeicon", the guy in the tray, would start up alsamixer when clicked on. alsamixer is a bit lacking. any recommended replacement that doesn't need pulse?
09:30 < bookworm> what the hell do you wanna do in a volume manager?
09:31 < bookworm> Wikipedia to the rescue: There also are GUIs programmed by third-party developers, such as gnome-alsamixer (using GTK+), kmix, xfce4-mixer, lxpanel, qashctl, pavucontrol, alsamixergui (using FLTK) and probably even more.
09:31 < edd_lc> bookworm: well, ill tell you what issues i tried to solve and only managed through the cli tools
09:31 < bookworm> so ehm, go and try them all ;)
09:31 < edd_lc> bookworm: you're right, thanks
09:32 < bookworm> please mind that pulling in a gnome- or kde- thing will also pull half of the available packages on Earth
09:33 < edd_lc> bookworm: i connected my headphones using bluetooth (different case than right now) and i couldnt choose that output through alsamixer. i know way back when i used something with pulse and it "simply worked" using a drop down menu
09:33 < edd_lc> i did manage to output a mp3 file using aplay to the bluetooth headphones
09:33 < edd_lc> so, at least i was sure they were connected right. something else i was doing wrong
09:33 < adsc> bluetooth headphones *snorts*
09:34 < bookworm> he, but if you know that pulse works, why not use that?
09:34 < alexey-nemovff> edd_lc: I use pavucontrol.. I recommend it to you
09:34 < edd_lc> didnt want to give up so quickly
09:35  * bookworm just wanted sound to work
09:35 < edd_lc> alexey-nemovff: does it work with alsa? i installed it but it didnt work out of the box
09:35 < bookworm> I have no feelings for alsa... wiki said use pulse, so I did
09:36 < edd_lc> bookworm: fair fair. i might just do tha
09:36 < edd_lc> t
09:36 < bookworm> I mean then you can install and use ponymix, which is just worth it for the name
09:36 < edd_lc> hah
09:38 < s10gopal> hwo to build kernel from git source ?
09:38 < adsc> with a compiler
09:38 < [R]> and gnu make
09:38 < adsc> usually gcc
09:39 < bazhang> s10gopal, follow the person who is helping in this crosspost
09:39 < [R]> lol
09:52 < sushemsu> Hello and morin #linux
09:54 < sushemsu> g'morning
09:55 < paddy|> hello
09:56 < albrecht> morning
09:57 < user03> Hi, Where have you all been?
09:57 < user03> :)
09:57 < sushemsu> has anyone here run into any reliabillity issues with kexec?
09:57 < [R]> its pretty hacky...
09:59 < sushemsu> I've been using it at home and had no issues but was thinking about rolling out in a test env to see if isn't super unstable
10:00 < [R]> sounds like a plan
10:00 < sushemsu> just wanted to get a feel see what issues people have run into
10:08 < nothos> Hey all, I've got a centos 7 box and it seems that occaisionally systemd is, best as I can describe, throwing a wobbly
10:09 < nothos> systemctl commands are very slow and trying to daemon-reload times out
10:10 < [R]> any errors in ddmesg?
10:10 < [R]> dmesg*
10:12 < nothos> [R] Not really, nothing indicating problems anyway
10:12 < [R]> sounds like you have something screwy going on with your system
10:13 < nothos> [R] Yeah, that seems a given :D
10:14 < sushemsu> if you run strace with your systemctl command, does it hang in a specific spot?
10:17 < nothos> sushemsu https://paste.linux.community/view/140c00ed systemctl daemon-reload hangs here before dying
10:20 < sushemsu> nothos: does it say what the socket fd 3 is bound to?
10:23 < mikecmpbll> bit of a broad question this, but what's the point in having multiple layers of firewalling?
10:23 < nothos> sushemsu according to /proc/1/fd
10:23 < [R]> mikecmpbll: layers?
10:23 < nothos> lrwx------ 1 root root 64 Apr  4 07:30 3 -> anon_inode:[timerfd]
10:24 < nothos> It's a broken symlink)
10:24 < nothos> Not sure if that's intentional?
10:24 < mikecmpbll> [R] : well, auditers want us to implement a permeter firewall, where traffic for the whole group of machines passes through in addition to host-based firewalls which exist.
10:24 < mikecmpbll> perimeter*
10:26 < [R]> mikecmpbll: ok... so do what the ywant?
10:26 < mikecmpbll> interesting answer.
10:27 < [R]> well if you were to ask a question that is in the slightest related to the topic of this channel...
10:27 < mikecmpbll> heh, i did warn it was broad. i'll try find a more appropriate channel.
10:28 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMZ_(computing)   really there are reasons why you will be implementing multi firewalls.
10:29 < mikecmpbll> i know these concepts exist, i just don't understand the point and all the internet ever says is "to provide an additional layer of security"
10:29 < mikecmpbll> i'll do more reading see if i missed anything.
10:29 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: lot of the times it will be like the DMZ where you will not want particular machines able self open internal machines connection if they get breached.
10:29 < nothos> mikecmpbll There's a #networking channel on freenode
10:29 < nothos> Maybe that'll be able to help? :)
10:30 < [R]> you can never wear too many condoms...
10:30 < mikecmpbll> oiaohm : that's handled by our host-based firewalls also though
10:30 < oiaohm> [R]: yes very much the more sexual version of the layers of an onion.
10:30 < mikecmpbll> oiaohm : they are micro-segmented ..
10:31 < mikecmpbll> with infrastructure-as-code stuff anyway both a DMZ and host firewall are likely to be configured by the same sets of rules. but MEH.
10:31 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: there are different rules by banks and the like that have that you cannot have a isolation firewall and application on the same machine.
10:31 < mikecmpbll> oiaohm : ah, that's interesting
10:32 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: its all on the theory that there is a defect in the kernel and application so if the application is breached the host firewall could be undo.  Yet being on different machines this is now a lot harder.
10:33 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: its all about level of separation if something goes really wrong.
10:34 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: and some stuff like credit card processing rules can mandate it.
10:35 < mikecmpbll> oiaohm : thank you for the insight! :)
10:36 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: if you notice in the one dmz example they have internet and local network firewalls as two completely differnet boxes as well.  So the rules can get a pure hardware pain in tail as well.
10:36 < jonascj> Any good shell script style guides (regarding documenation/comments especially)? http://www.inquisitor.ru/doc/coding-style-shell.html seem pretty thorough, but really, a .ru domain making hardware testing systems?
10:37 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: particularly when you end up with something that is 4 layers of DMZ.
10:38 < mikecmpbll> i guess one of the difficulties i've had researching this is trying to apply the examples to our context which is cloud-based infrastructure.
10:39 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: doing it in cloud can at times be next to impossible to meet the regulations at times.
10:39 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: this is cases when you end up needing to have you own rack space that you can cable how you like in the data centre.
10:40 < oiaohm> mikecmpbll: and it when generic cloud kind of fails for you.
10:40 < mikecmpbll> hmm. yeah :'(
10:42 < leeyaa> hi
10:42 < luna_> hi
10:42 < jim> hi
10:43 < leeyaa> i have sync mount option that i need to remove without restarting the server. /dev/xvda2 on / type ext4 (rw,sync,errors=remount-ro)
10:43 < leeyaa> is it possible to remount it without sync ?
10:43 < leeyaa> also i cant edit fstab, because i have no editor installed ;p
10:43 < jim> why would you have to stop the server before unmounting? are files on it involved in the server?
10:43 < leeyaa> there is a running apt process and cant install anything
10:44 < [R]> mount -o remount,async /dev/xvda2
10:44 < yakiza> Hello guys, do you know any way that i can scan my network for idracs?
10:44 < leeyaa> oh so the opposite is async
10:44 < MrElendig> leeyaa: not even sed or ex?
10:44 < MrElendig> or awk
10:44 < jim> can't install anything? what is it trying to do?
10:44 < leeyaa> MrElendig: actually i have sed and awk
10:44 < MrElendig> then you are set
10:44 < leeyaa> jim: im upgrading it and i noticed it takes ages. so i found it has sync option enabled
10:44 < lopid> you should have ed, too
10:44 < leeyaa> for /
10:45 < MrElendig> delete the line you don't want, append/insert the new one
10:45 < leeyaa> yeah
10:45 < leeyaa> i sorted it with async as [R] suggested
10:45 < leeyaa> the moment i removed sync upgrade almost finished lol
10:45 < leeyaa> who the heck uses sync for /
10:46 < jim> if you kill off the apt process, is there anything left (in the way of open files on that mount) that prevent you from unmounting?
10:46 < jim> oh, is it the / dir?
10:46 < leeyaa> yeahg
10:46 < jim> yeah, you'd have to restart
10:46 < leeyaa> async did the trick anyway
10:47 < jim> oh it did?
10:47 < MrElendig> most of the time you just want defaults
10:47 < MrElendig> or defaults,noatime
10:47 < jim> congratz :)
10:47 < leeyaa> yes thats what i use
10:47 < leeyaa> someone else created this vm
10:57 < nrubsig> Question about the Linux config ... what does the 'm' mean in "CONFIG_VFAT_FS=m" ?
10:59 < Triffid_Hunter> nrubsig: will be made as a module
10:59 < Ben64> module?
11:00 < Ben64> oh i was too late
11:00 < nrubsig> Triffid_Hunter: so not "limited functionality" in any way ?
11:00 < wondiws> is it possible to get the original VGA font in Xterm, or in the console? For use with traditional text-mode user interfaces and BBS boards, etc?
11:01 < Ben64> well you need the module loaded to read vfat
11:01 < Ben64> depends if you consider that limited
11:01 < Triffid_Hunter> nrubsig: only if you consider the need to load the module at runtime a limitation..
11:01 < nrubsig> wondiws: there are X11 fonts (BDF, PFM) which look like the default VGA font
11:02 < Triffid_Hunter> nrubsig: you'll be in trouble if your modules are on a vfat fs for example, although that would be crazy for a number of reasons :P
11:02 < wondiws> nrubsig, how can I see which one is loaded now in my xterm?
11:03 < nrubsig> wondiws: uhm... typically via X resources... best you ask that kind of question in the xorg mailing lists
11:07 < nrubsig> wondiws: see https://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg how to subscribe... you need to subscribe before posting
11:08 < nrubsig> Triffid_Hunter: well, the evil plan was certainly not to boot from vfat... ;-)
11:09  * nrubsig wonders if anyone ever attempted to boot Linux from vfat,, just for the sake of being an evil overlord then
11:12 < wondiws> nrubsig, you can load the kernel and initrd from DOS, with GRUB4DOS or LOADLIN I believe it was
11:12  * nrubsig declares this world and the next... as totally MAD like a cow
11:14 < Guest17371> Hi. Is it possible to increase a lv, which is mounted on /var/lib ?
11:14 < MrElendig> sure
11:15 < MrElendig> fix your name btw
11:15 < Guest17371> also to decrease?
11:16 < MrElendig> sure, might not end well if the filesystem can't shrink though......
11:17 < Y0rick> what could be the cases when the filesystem couldn't shrink?
11:17 < MrElendig> a lot of filesystems doesn't support it
11:17 < MrElendig> eg xfs
11:17 < morf> Y0rick: if there is no empty space :]
11:18 < Y0rick> the current size of the lv is 127G, and I would like to decrease it to 50G (it's currently using 19G)
11:19 < Y0rick> this can be done by just using the lvreduce command, without any issues? :)
11:19 < Y0rick> There is an ext4 filesystem on it
11:19 < jim> Y0rick, does the vg the lv is in have enough free space? (vgdisplay nameofvg)
11:20 < jim> you can grow an ext4 live
11:20 < Y0rick> i need to decrease the size
11:20 < Y0rick> of the lv
11:20 < MrElendig> ext4 can shrink
11:21 < jim> decrease? I thought you said increase
11:21 < Y0rick> yes sorry, was my mistake
11:21 < MrElendig> if you have important data on there do a backup first
11:21 < Y0rick> i meant decrease
11:21 < jim> "<Guest17371> Hi. Is it possible to increase a lv, which is mounted on /var/lib ?"
11:21 < Y0rick> yes, sorry jim
11:21 < Y0rick> my bad
11:21 < jim> ok whichever :)
11:21 < wondiws> when I click in my xterm, I get these codes entered, but not in my other open xterms, what has happened to the mode of my first xterm?
11:22 < wondiws> I don't see anything special with "stty"
11:23 < jim> so, here are the rules... if you want to INcrease, you must increase the size of the lv first, then resize2fs it
11:24 < jim> if you want to DEcrease, you must first decrease the filesystem in the lv, then decrease the size of the lv
11:24 < Y0rick> and what happens when the lvm decrease crashes? Will the system getting instable, because of the - potential - missing of directories in /var/lib?
11:24 < wondiws> Y0rick, it's a lot easier to increase
11:24 < Y0rick> i'd know
11:25 < MrElendig> the lv tool can resize the fs as well as a oneshot operation
11:25 < Dagmar> The operation won't crash
11:25 < MrElendig> avoids losing data due to pebcak
11:25 < jim> if you're worried about that, maybe you better boot into one of those gparted usb images
11:25 < Dagmar> If you think the operation might crash because the system is generally unstable, fix the instability
11:26 < jim> or, maybe you should back upn first
11:26 < MrElendig> gparted just increases chance of crash and pebcak in my experience
11:26 < MrElendig> :p
11:26 < Y0rick> yes
11:26 < jim> MrElendig, ok, what's better to use?
11:27 < MrElendig> install image for <distro> usually has all the required tools
11:27 < MrElendig> and run in tty to reduce the risk of fun things
11:27 < jim> so maybe he has the required tools now
11:27 < MrElendig> involving xorg just drasticly increases the chance of something crashing
11:27 < jim> does parted tend to crash?
11:28 < MrElendig> could possibly do it without booting a live image too, but since ext4 can only shrink offline, umounting /var/lib could have some "fun" side effects
11:28 < Dagmar> If it's an LVM setup, parted has eff-all to do with it
11:28 < jim> I'm not so happy with GNU's skill in creating user interface
11:29 < Y0rick> making backups could be done... but i just would like to know if something could happen with the system, when the /var/lib mount will fall back on the old dirs/files; before the mount was allocated.
11:29 < jim> if he reboots into single user mode, can he unmount /var?
11:30 < MrElendig> don't forget that a lot of gnu tools are just random software taken in under the gnu umbrella
11:30 < jim> so, he
11:31 < jim> is running the system now... maybe it's a good idea to check for required tools now
11:31 < MrElendig> think it would vary a bit dependin on the distro and system setup if umount or remount of /var/lib would be feasable in single user mode
11:31 < jim> ok
11:31 < jim> Y0rick, which dist are you running/
11:31 < jim> ?
11:31 < Y0rick> debian
11:32 < jim> I've umounted /var in single user mode
11:32 < jim> on debian
11:32 < edd_lc> how can I ask xdg-* (settings?) to show me all .desktop it knows about? Going through the list of directories it traverses as per the docs seems inefficient
11:32 < Y0rick> and what happened?
11:33 < Y0rick> did you fall back into the old /var (from the mount on /?
11:33 < jim> I didn't unmount it to resize it; if I recall correctly, I was able to complete what I was doing
11:36 < stevendale> Okay I think it's working :D
11:36 < MrElendig> ext4 can grow online but shrinking is only supported offline
11:36 < stevendale> Told my client to automatically ghost connections with this nick if it's in use
11:36 < stevendale> And then change to it automatically
11:37 < Y0rick> hmm good to know
11:44 < jim> Y0rick, pretty much you're going to have to reboot the machine into its maintainance mode, then you should be able to unmount /var
11:44 < jim> then you can work on it
11:45 < jim> then mount it back, and hit ctrl d
11:52 < sushemsu> nothos: sorry had server go down
11:52 < nothos> sushemsu That's fine :) I've managed to get it to behave (a bit) by emptying the journal
11:53 < nothos> Other than that, still damn laggy, despite doing a reexec of the daemon
11:53 < Y0rick> thanks
11:53 < sushemsu> nothos yeah looks like it's hanging for potential ipc (depedns on sock info) that I was lookin to get
12:02 < binkio> Hi! Does anyone know if the SPa and SPb on EMC are actual linux servers that one can connect to through say putty? I can ping them but I do not seem to be able to connect.
12:05 < ngc3982> hi. i think i have ruined grub and/or my partition table.
12:06 < ngc3982> i got errors about grub failing when updating with apt-get, so i removed it, reinstalled it and i -thought- i marked the correct partition for boot. apparently i did not. i have no idea how to fix it, and i cant even find a boot partition now :/
12:06 < ngc3982> im on live-cd and im starting to get a bit panic-y.
12:15 < binkio> Hi! Does anyone know if the SPa and SPb on EMC are actual linux servers that one can connect to through say putty? I can ping them but I do not seem to be able to connect.
12:17 < ahmad0461> HI , install manjaro alongside windows 8
12:17 < ahmad0461> No PARTITIONs found while installing
12:23 < djph> ahmad0461: good news, you can use the entire disk! :)
12:24 < djph> ahmad0461: note - it may be caused by EFI vs. GPT partitioning
12:24 < stevendale> Hi
12:25 < ngc3982> https://askubuntu.com/questions/636456/14-04-upgrade-triggers-grub-pc-failure <- i did according to this guide and now i cannot boot.
12:29 < peetaur2> eek      sudo rm -r /etc/grub.d/
12:29 < peetaur2> don't do that .... you should do it properly, like first back it up before following any rm -r commands in blogs/stackexchange... and then figure out what you're doing
12:29 < djph> that's probably not gonna do you any favors
12:29 < stevendale> That's a very bad command peetaur
12:29 < peetaur2> so for example  dpkg -S /etc/grub.d/*   if it lists a package you are NOT reinstalling, it won't replace what you removed
12:29 < peetaur2> stevendale: I'm referring to ngc3982's link which has such a command
12:30 < ngc3982> I kind of realize that now
12:30 < ngc3982> I have put myself way under water here.
12:30 < peetaur2> you can still fix it though.... just boot up rescue mode and you can finish the solution
12:31 < ngc3982> Im in the live-cd enviroment now. Can i do it from here?
12:31 < peetaur2> and with any grub stuff, I always throw in an initramfs rebuild too.... on debian based, before the update-grub, you add   update-initramfs -u
12:31 < Xorg> whats the equivavalent to stat -c %d:%i /
12:31 < peetaur2> a rescue environment does all the other work for you...but to manually do it, just mount your rootfs, boot, etc. somewhere, eg  /mnt/root  and /mnt/root/boot and such
12:31 < peetaur2> and then    chroot /mnt/root /bin/bash
12:32 < peetaur2> er... before chroot, mount some stuff:   for dev proc sys; do mount -o bind /$d /mnt/root/$d; done
12:32 < ngc3982> yes
12:32 < ngc3982> Found a guide for that
12:32 < peetaur2> here's my guide for that  https://pastebin.com/GfeysRFu
12:32 < peetaur2> but my guide doesn't include fixing the packages you butchered
12:33 < binkio> Hi! Does anyone know if the SPa and SPb on EMC are actual linux servers that one can connect to through say putty? I can ping them but I do not seem to be able to connect.
12:33 < ngc3982> i think i have lvm, and that my boot partition is dev/mapped/henjoh--vg-root. doesn't say /boot anywhere, tho
12:34 < peetaur2> mount that, and if you see in /mnt/wherever/boot you have the usual files ,and  your /mnt/wherever/etc/fstab doesn't mention a separate boot, that's fine
12:34 < ngc3982> ok
12:35 < nrubsig> peetaur2: ??
12:35 < alexneudatchin> ngc3982:grub-install -b
12:36 < peetaur2> nrubsig: if your ?? is in response to this strange exit message you have when you quit, don't blame me...I don't know what it is
12:37 < alexneudatchin> *--boot-directory
12:37 < nrubsig> peetaur2: no kill from irc console from your side ?
12:37 < peetaur2> nrubsig: it's more likely malware on your side ... all you see related to me is my name in the exit message
12:37 < ngc3982> peetaur2: im in ubuntu, so i guess i should not run the arch thingy.
12:37 < peetaur2> I would ask in #freenode
12:39 < peetaur2> ngc3982: yeah run the debian based stuff
12:40 < ngc3982> update-initramfs does not exist
12:41 < peetaur2> ubuntu should have that  /usr/sbin/update-initramfs    maybe sbin isn't in your PATH?
12:42 < ngc3982> there we go
12:42 < ngc3982> thanks
12:44 < ngc3982> peetaur2: it seems it failed. this is the output: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2QDYGBrVxN/
12:49 < peetaur2> ngc3982: looks like you skipped the mount bind step
12:49 < peetaur2> or you didn't chroot ....you didn't show enough output to show even where you are
12:49 < pankaj_> I mostly work on terminal but sometimes I use browser and see some videos. To install desktop environment and other stuff is lot of work and eats a lot of memory. Is their any suitable trick to this problem.
12:50 < ngc3982> peetaur2: i know. this is a separate machine, so it's all a bit fuzzy.
12:50 < binkio> Hi! Does anyone know if the SPa and SPb on EMC are actual linux servers that one can connect to through say putty? I can ping them but I do not seem to be able to connect.
12:51 < ngc3982> My god the system just froze
12:51 < ngc3982> Why is everything like this
12:51 < deniska> binkio: what is EMC?
12:53 < milp_3> deniska: EMC is a enterprise storage manufacturer that was bought by dell
12:54 < milp_3> deniska: it's that type of storage you buy if you want to spend a lot of money and like pain
12:54 < deniska> mm, enterprise :)
12:54 < binkio> ANd the spa and spb are controllers
12:54 < binkio> are controllers actual servers that can be connected to?
12:55 < milp_3> not that i know of, our emc only has one central web interface thing to connect to
12:55 < peetaur2> pankaj_: just use a light DE if you need to save RAM/disk/whatever, and use a terminal in the gui .... I work mostly on terminals, but for copy and paste to an editor, etc. I use the mouse and gui functionality.
12:55 < peetaur2> milp_3: can you pay extra money to have less pain? :D
12:56 < milp_3> peetaur2: yes of course, you can get service contracts
12:59 < ngc3982-2> peetaur2: time to start over. i installed irssi in the live-cd suite.
13:01 < ngc3982-2> peetaur2: this is the output of lsblk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PBFMh9Z9gq/
13:02 < ngc3982-2> i -think- that henjoh--vg-root was the boot partition?
13:02 < peetaur2> a root fs with boot inside, probably
13:04 < jim> for one reason or another, I could never get root-with-boot partitions to work
13:06 < edd_lc> went out to eat before asking a question but anyone know
13:06 < edd_lc> how can I ask xdg-* (settings?) to show me all .desktop it knows about? Going through the list of directories it traverses as per the docs seems inefficient
13:06 < peetaur2> jim: I find they fail more than separate boot when you have more complexity in there, like raid and lvm
13:07 < peetaur2> and one thing I know is that the grub, etc. docs all say mdadm metadata 1.2 and raid10, etc. are all fine, but in practice, you only get reliable boots with metadata <= 1.0 and raid1
13:08 < ngc3982-2> peetaur2: you were probably right: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ZwfBgvtstD/
13:08 < ngc3982-2> looks ok
13:08 < ngc3982-2> can i in some way check if this is correct before i reboot_
13:08 < ngc3982-2> also, i guess i need to fix other things, or is this enough?
13:09 < peetaur2> look in /mnt/root/etc/grub.d/ and see if it's broken
13:09 < peetaur2> and update-grub, and then look at /mnt/root/boot/grub/grub.cfg to see if it looks normal
13:11 < ngc3982-2> grub.d contains some files that look ..ok
13:11 < ngc3982-2> peetaur2: oh, do i need to do this chrooted_
13:12 < ngc3982-2> sudo update-grub gives: /usr/sbin/grub-probe: error: failed to get canonical path of `aufs'.
13:13 < peetaur2> yeah do it all chrooted
13:14 < peetaur2> if you don't use aufs, maybe that can be ignored
13:14 < peetaur2> just look at grub.cfg in the end and see if it's ok
13:16 < ngc3982-2> peetaur2: but, /mnt/root does not exist when chrooted
13:17 < ngc3982-2> peetaur2: sudo chroot /mnt/root and then ls /mnt gives me an empty catalogue
13:17 < peetaur2> yeah don't prepend /mnt/root when inside the chroot
13:18 < ngc3982-2> ah, so /boot/../grub.cfg
13:19 < ngc3982-2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/s4RhC2PVVD/
13:19 < ngc3982-2> this is the cfg. i cant say if it is broken or not, but it looks ok i guess_
13:20 < peetaur2> so it has a menuentry that mentions a kernel, your rootfs, and initrd...so it's probably fine
13:20 < ngc3982-2> i see.
13:20 < ngc3982-2> peetaur2: should i reboot?
13:20 < peetaur2> probably
13:21 < ngc3982> worst case, ill have to re-run the live-cd session again.
13:22 < ngc3982> peetaur2: got booted into grub rescue with "error: file not found".
13:23 < peetaur2> ok so get into rescue mode again, and see if those files exist...   /boot/vmlinuz-4.13.0-37-generic, /boot/vmlinuz-4.13.0-37-generic, /boot/initrd.img-4.13.0-37-generic
13:23 < ngc3982> is rescue mode == grub rescue?`
13:23 < peetaur2> or edit the grub menu just to make sure you see the same as in your paste (maybe you booted a usb stick or something unexpected?)
13:23 < peetaur2> no I mean like where you had chroot
13:23 < ngc3982> i see
13:24 < peetaur2> hrmf...my 2nd pasge failed. 2nd file was  /dev/mapper/henjoh--vg-root
13:24 < peetaur2> I've seen problems where fstab says things like /dev/mapper/henjoh-vg-root but it wants -- not - ....and I always avoid that nonsense by doing /dev/henjoh/vg-root instead
13:25 < ngc3982> peetaur2: i see.
13:25 < ngc3982> first, i notice that uefi wants to boot on something else
13:25 < ngc3982> so let me just check..
13:26 < ngc3982> nope. nothing.
13:26 < ngc3982> ok, so back to live enviroment
13:26 < peetaur2> and if you are booting in efi mode, there's another step we didn't do
13:27 < ngc3982> peetaur2: all i know is that im using uefi bios. is that the same thing?
13:27 < peetaur2> you have to mount the efi system partition (the fat32 thing), and then when you grub-install, there are more args, like:   grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot/efi --bootloader-id=arbitrarynamehere --recheck --no-floppy
13:28 < peetaur2> you can boot uefi firmware in legacy mode which is not efi mode
13:30 < ngc3982> peetaur2: ok, im in again.
13:30 < ngc3982> do i need to start over?
13:30 < cusco> question about grep, is it ok to ask here?
13:31 < peetaur2> cusco: it's ok to ask, but not to ask to ask.
13:31 < cusco> cool, sometimes people state this is about X you should not ask Y
13:31 < peetaur2> ngc3982: you have to find out what the cause of the problem is.... when it failed with file not found, did it say which file?
13:31 < cusco> im grepping a small regex in a log file. But I also want the start of the line (date time) but the between the start of the line and the piece of info I want I was grepping varies
13:31 < cusco> cant I with -o, get both the date time in the beginning, and the small piece after that I was already grepping?
13:31 < cusco> excluding the middle..
13:32 < peetaur2> cusco: sample input and desired output?
13:32 < ngc3982> peetaur2, no it did not.
13:32 < cusco> ok
13:32 < peetaur2> I would probably use awk for such a thing, but I have to see what sorts of deliminers are there
13:33 < cusco> I was delimitting by space, and it varies thus my question
13:36 < cusco> peetaur2: here: http://paste.debian.net/1018475/
13:36 < ngc3982> peetaur2: i have remade the procedure. and im at the step where i generated with initramfs.
13:37 < cusco> I was using grep "A=.*:.*@pcmedic.pt S" to ghet the A= part
13:37 < cusco> with -o
13:37 < cusco> I also would like the beginning of the line
13:38 < peetaur2> cusco:  so here's one with awk and grep   grep -Eo "20[^ ]+.*A=[^ ]+" input.txt | awk '{print $1" "$2" "$NF}'
13:38 < cusco> ok let me try, thanks
13:39 < cusco> right I could use -e
13:39 < cusco> thank you
13:40 < pankaj_> peetaur2: Can you tell some light weight DE to install?
13:40 < peetaur2> pankaj_: XFCE is a good balance... light but not lightest, but more functionality
13:42 < peetaur2> oh should probably fix my 20[^ ]+ ...  make that ^[0-9]{4}[^ ]+   instead
13:42 < ngc3982> peetaur2: im sorry, but i feel stuck. should i remake the procedure but also add the efi commands?
13:43 < peetaur2> and it's finally rebootin' time... playing a game of why is my computer so slow...first test is to see if it's this seagate barracuda (argh hate those disks) that died and hung and kill -9 doesn't make it go away
13:43 < peetaur2> ask again when I return
13:43 < ngc3982> ok. thanks :).
13:43 < ngc3982> also: seagate's break alot :(.
13:44 < peetaur2> cusco: and here's just awk (which in thise case is worse, but if you had multiple other things in the line rather than just 1, the grep version wouldn't work)...   awk '{date=$1" "$2; for(n=1; n<NF; n++) { if($n ~ /A=/) { print $1" "$2" "$n }; }}' < input.txt
13:46 < edd_lc> what should i ask google if i want to see the list of scripts a session executes at startup? such as .bashrc, /etc/rc.local. im trying to change $BROWSER and although I found it in ~/.profile, and changed it, it doesn't look like the only place. the value, in a new session, remains the same
13:47 < ngc3982> edd_lc: i use @reboot in crontab.
13:47 < ngc3982> also: sorry, i did not read what you were asking for properly.
13:48 < edd_lc> ngc3982: sorry, i dont understand what that means. search for "reboot" through the defined cron jobs?
13:48 < ngc3982> edd_lc: no, ignore me. i missunderstood your question.
13:49 < edd_lc> ngc3982: fair. basically, what are the locations of the scripts executed by a new shell session? not getting the keywords right for google to yield relevant results
13:50 < ngc3982> i have no idea :/
13:52 < SkunkyFone> edd_lc: it depends on what shell you're running, and what your distro has done... sh derived shells usually run /etc/profile and ~/.profile, csh derived shells run cshrc, bash runs profile and or bashrc
13:54 < SkunkyFone> edd_lc: most of the time, most distros will add things to the /etc version of the shell startup to set env variables for all users, sometimes calling other scripts from that one
13:54 < edd_lc> SkunkyFone: Cheers. Looking through it now
13:55 < stevendale> I went to the dentist today
13:55 < stevendale> uwu
13:59 < edd_lc> SkunkyFone: :( can't find the culprit. I'm using a bash shell under a public distro. Looked through /etc/profile*, one by one to see if anyone is calling someone else, and ~/.bashrc. The env var $BROWSER was in ~/.profile but even though I changed it, each new session has "the old" value. If I fire `source ~/.profile` it works, naturally. Not sure where else to look
13:59 < edd_lc> Even stackexchange posts about the same operations I'm trying to do only mention ~/.profile, as I've done already
14:01 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
14:02 < JimBuntu> Hiya BluesKaj
14:02 < BluesKaj> Hey JimBuntu
14:02 < JimBuntu> edd_lc, Do you have an /etc/profile.d ? If so, did you look into that directory?
14:02 < BluesKaj> winter's back /:
14:02 < edd_lc> JimBuntu: Yes, sir. Each and every .sh in it. Even went through .csh
14:03 < edd_lc> JimBuntu: Mr /etc/profile executes each script it finds in /etc/profile.d but I see it does nothing weird beyond that
14:03 < JimBuntu> edd_lc, Well... if at first you don't succeed... use overkill `find /etc -exec grep -Hs BROWSER {} \;`
14:04 < edd_lc> is there a program that starts a shell in "debug" mode where it shows line by line which script/line it is executing ?
14:04 < BluesKaj> or read the instructions :-)
14:05 < SkunkyFone> edd_lc: the last thing that gets sourced should be the ~ version... so you should make sure you're setting your env variables at the bottom of that....
14:05 < BCMM> edd_lc: yes
14:05 < edd_lc> BluesKaj: Which instructions? Where can I find something like that that tells me what locations it goes through
14:05 < edd_lc> JimBuntu: You're right, I ran something similar on my home directory. Let me try system wide
14:05 < BCMM> edd_lc: in bash, `set -x`
14:06 < b4d> hi, is there any way to offset a cron job by a few seconds. I get some wierd segfault and maybe executing the scripts at the same time is the culprit. They are launched every minute.
14:06 < BCMM> edd_lc: also you can start it as `bash -x` to get that behavior from the start
14:07 < JimBuntu> b4d, like adding a sleep command in the script being executed?
14:07 < edd_lc> `find / -type f -size 1M | xargs grep -i browser | grep pale 2>/dev/null` yields nothing new
14:07 < BCMM> which is invaluable for debugging bashrc and friends
14:07 < BluesKaj> edd_lc, it was a joke , I should have qualified my statement with: if at first you don't succeed ....read the instructions
14:07 < b4d> JimBuntu: :D the nod in the right direction I needed :D
14:07 < edd_lc> BluesKaj: heh, fair :)
14:08 < JimBuntu> edd_lc, why size 1M?
14:08 < edd_lc> BCMM: Not sure what set -x does but am going through bash -x
14:08 < edd_lc> JimBuntu: Figured no script is larger than 1M
14:12 < ngc3982> im getting soft lockup..
14:12 < ngc3982> "CPU1 stuck for 22sec!" does not sound nice.
14:14 < peetaur2> ngc3982: is that a VM?
14:14 < ngc3982> no
14:15 < ngc3982> its a physical machine next to me
14:15 < m_s__saints> Hey
14:15 < peetaur2> not sure I've ever seen that outside a VM... except if you cause some hardware lockups, like if you do vfio passthrough and do things that break it, like acs override, wrong vgarom hacked in there, etc.
14:16 < ngc3982> peetaur2: i have no idea how to continue, right now. it boots into the live enviroment, and booting from the drive simply gives the grub rescue terminal. if i ls each individual entry all of them return "error: unknown filesystem"
14:16 < ngc3982> peetaur2: also: welcome back.
14:17 < ngc3982> never mind that cpu thing. that is probably something completely different i need to look into later.
14:17 < ngc3982> right now, i just want to fix the catastrophe i created.
14:19 < edd_lc> im giving up. xdg-open knows which browser to go. links open correctly. asking z-bar to start "Web browser" works. i don't know who uses $BROWSER and why it refuses to change when `tail -1 ~/.profile` is export BROWSER=/usr/bin/google-chrome-stable. just when i was beginning to feel i had the basics
14:20 < edd_lc> after years of using Linux /sob
14:21 < m_s__saints> I'm trying to find information about ImageMagick set option. I want to resize several images and keep the extesion.
14:21 < SkunkyFone> edd_lc: if you're using bash, it may be someting in bashrc or ~/.bashrc
14:21 < mawk> lol edd_lc
14:21 < djph> edd_lc: I'd imagine $someone decided that the $BROWSER system variable was ugly, and their way was better
14:22 < ZexaronS> Hello
14:22 < m_s__saints> I want to modify this command convert "./1/*.*" -resize 100x100 -gravity center -extent 100x100 -set filename:area "%t-100x100" ./resized/%[filename:area].jpg to keep the extension, does someone know how?
14:22 < mawk> using find or a bash for loop you can do it
14:23 < djph> for f in ./1/*.*; do ... ihavenoidea ...
14:23 < ZexaronS> i'm wondering about something and I thought maybe linux works already like this ... does it have desktop and fullscreen program isolation - the common problem on windows is that badly coded programs might bug out the desktop and notifications if they crash in weird ways, it blocks desktop so it blocks even the maintenance tools to show like task manager, is this a total non issue on linux ?
14:24 < ZexaronS> Does a full screen program get's it's own isolated "shell"
14:24 < edd_lc> SkunkyFone: I looked through those, as well. All the usual suspects. I feel djph is right. There's an ugly hack going on somewhere
14:24 < m_s__saints> I don't know how to write bash script. I imagine that there is some information about the file extension like filename:extesion, but I don't find anything about this on documentation
14:24 < mawk> this is an issue on linux too ZexaronS
14:24 < mawk> but you can have several virtual terminals each with a Xorg process running ZexaronS
14:24 < Thedarkb> does ls -t list newest to oldest or oldest to newest
14:25 < mawk> ZexaronS: then if the crashed program didn't crash hard enough to prevent you from switching back to the other VT, you can apply your idea
14:25 < JimBuntu> Thedarkb, newest to oldest for me
14:25 < Thedarkb> Thanks man
14:25 < Thedarkb> I broke my OpenTTD server and I'm trying to load the most recent autosave.
14:26  * kurahaupo retires the apostrphe key from ZexaronS's k'e'y'b'oa'r'd
14:26 < mawk> lol
14:26 < kalipso> hey, is there a tool to throttle down overall cpu usage? want to limit max usage to something like 75% on every core
14:27 < mawk> cgroups can do that kalipso
14:27 < mawk> but it maybe won't be a nice percentage cap like this
14:27 < kurahaupo> kalipso: change the clock speed instead
14:27 < ZexaronS> mawk: shouldn't this be alleviated like by a real deal solution as I said, like actually having something like this supported and enforced by kernel and kernel written in such a way that no way a crashing program, fullscreen or not, would ever be able to mess with desktop or terminals or the kernel it self
14:27 < kalipso> kurahaupo & mawk okay two ways to go, ill evaluate using internet, many thanks
14:28 < mawk> my way is just theoretical kalipso
14:28 < mawk> I don't know of a tool that does that
14:28 < kurahaupo> Thedarkb: ls -tl will show the times
14:28 < stevendale> A hammer kalipso
14:28 < mawk> but with a couple bash lines in the right place it should be easy
14:28 < stevendale> A couple of bashes with a hammer will do just as well
14:29 < mawk> lol
14:29 < mawk> ZexaronS: error recovery code isn't the way to go in linux
14:29 < mawk> the way to go is to crash and reboot
14:30 < mawk> it saves like 50% of the source code that would have been written
14:30 < kalipso> mawk: for now throttling clock speed seems to be more straight forward but i wanted to read into cgroups anyways
14:30 < ZexaronS> That's incredibly subjective, because mission critical uses would want a feature that I described
14:30 < ngc3982> im on the edge of a nervous breakdown now. i managed to remove or break grub, and i have been rebooting the machine over 100 times because it randomly doesnt show bios, doesnt boot, black screen, cpu halt and when i get in i have no idea what im doing why im doing it and why it still does not work
14:31 < mawk> ZexaronS: then start your application in a separate Xorg display maybe
14:31 < mawk> the best way to isolate is to launch two instances
14:31 < s10gopal> what to do now ?
14:32 < s10gopal> gopal@gopal-HP-Notebook:~/linux$ git bisect bad v4.13-rc1
14:32 < s10gopal> Bisecting: 6041 revisions left to test after this (roughly 13 steps)
14:32 < s10gopal> [e5f76a2e0e84ca2a215ecbf6feae88780d055c56] Merge branch 'for-linus' of git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/ebiederm/user-namespace
14:32 < mawk> what are you doing s10gopal ?
14:32 < ZexaronS> I don't see why do you say it would need more code, or error recovery, no idea what you mean there, it's simply that such thing should be supported out of the box and applications would get separated like that to separate displays, you would have an additional hotkey to switch between
14:34 < mawk> separate display are expensive ZexaronS
14:34 < s10gopal> mawk, https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198665 , it is bisect between 4.12 and 4.13-rc1
14:34 < mawk> and you have hotkeys to switch between displays
14:34 < mawk> already
14:35 < kalipso> just if anyone is interested: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/CPU_frequency_scaling
14:35 < doldor> I'm thinking of migrating Mint + GRUB to an SSD
14:35 < doldor> Though I'm not entirely sure how to go about it
14:36 < JimBuntu> doldor, treat it like any other new drive
14:36 < ZexaronS> I would enforce that every single program having it's own terminal that could be used in emergencies, it would be normally hidden in desktop, you would bring it up via tools GUI or hotkeys, even if the program wouldn't be written for it, such a thing would be injected by force by the kernel, inside there you could do various actions such as "try to gracefully exit", "save dump and try graceful exit", "save dump and force quit", "save dump
14:36 < ZexaronS> and force destroy" ... the destroy action would always work 100% because it would simply wipe the whole thing out of memory by writing zeroes, boom it goes
14:37 < doldor> JimBuntu, it's not entirely new - I installed Windows onto it in an attempt to have a Windows on the side that didn't feel like slogging through a swamp
14:37 < doldor> And I'm pretty darn new to this stuff
14:37 < JimBuntu> doldor, Do you want to keep the windows installation on the drive?
14:38 < doldor> JimBuntu, I do indeed. Though as it's a fresh install, it probably wouldn't be too much of a pain to redo
14:38 < doldor> The idea is Windows + Mint sitting on the SSD, and having a data partition on the HDD
14:39 < ZexaronS> mawk: maybe we have a different idea of "displays"
14:40 < JimBuntu> doldor, I would suggest installing MINT as normal with the option for it to keep the windows install, then move files over/etc, rather than moving my entire filesystem over, but that's me.  Is it safe to say the SSD has less space available than your current root filesystem uses?
14:40 < ZexaronS> most probably totally rewritten and working differently than it is now, it wouldn't be a separate xorg thing, that would all happen inside one, if it even existed in the same fashion
14:41 < ZexaronS> Linux needs fundamental things like this, the annoyances of the 20 year of other operating systems fixed, if it's still a problem today, it's not much of a competition
14:42 < doldor> JimBuntu, That sounds fair. The SSD has enough space for root (I've recently pretty much mowed down what I use, root's at about 40GB)
14:43 < doldor> With a fresh install and moving /home over later, what would I end up losing?
14:44 < JimBuntu> doldor, previously/manually installed packages
14:44 < JimBuntu> You can get a list of installed packages via your package manager, at least I presume you can, I know you can via apt and I think via yum as well
14:44 < mawk> you need to use something else than linux if you want redundancy like this ZexaronS
14:44 < mawk> like a microkernel for instance
14:46 < ZexaronS> mawk: why do you think this cannot be done, why so much pessimism, why does it take "another operating system" - software is all relative, you can make anything to anything
14:46 < doldor> JimBuntu, alrighty, thank you!
14:46 < kurahaupo> ZexaronS: signals can achieve most of what you've just asked for
14:47 < kurahaupo> It doesn't take a separate terminal, you just go kill -$signal $pid
14:48 < kurahaupo> ZexaronS: kill -9 is 100% effective against runaway processes. (Bugs in kernel drivers are a different matter)
14:48 < JimBuntu> doldor, yw.
14:50 < revel> kurahaupo: Unless they're in permanent disk sleep, apparently...
14:51 < kurahaupo> revel: did I mention driver bugs?
14:52 < kurahaupo> Or hardware bugs, I guess
14:52 < revel> kurahaupo: I mean runaway processes in disk sleep.
14:52 < kurahaupo> Recent kernels have a new "killable sleep" -- it can be killed, but won't interrupt to run a signal handler
14:53 < ZexaronS> kurahupo: great, maybe separate terminal thing was a bit random but the idea of such a feature is what i meant, now what if that terminal doesn't show up, if all you get is a black screen, then the SYSRQ button probably is needed right? But i've seen many linux distros don't even have SYSRQ enabled by default, super weird!
14:53 < kurahaupo> Only a few drivers use it so far
14:53 < mawk> from which version kurahaupo ?
14:53 < mawk> oh ok
14:53 < mawk> sad
14:53 < mawk> yeah it's a too low level feature I guess ZexaronS
14:53 < mawk> you don't want to do that by accident
14:54 < kurahaupo> ZexaronS: that seems to be unnecessarily tied to the idea of having a display
14:54 < mawk> like the ctrl-alt-backspace for killing X
14:54 < ZexaronS> defaults and capabilities that are hidden from the desktop should be dictated by the mainstream public, they should keep their noses in their fancy desktops only
14:54 < ZexaronS> shouldn't
14:54 < ZexaronS> SHOULDN'T ***
14:55 < ZexaronS> the first one ah whatever
14:55 < kurahaupo> ZexaronS: a basic Linux system has no display at all. How is your system supposed to work then?
14:55 < ZexaronS> I mean, REISUB and SYSRQ should be enabled by default, that's all, why would anyone disable that on purpose is just weird
14:56 < kurahaupo> And no keyboard
14:56 < revel> ZexaronS: Build your own kernel that has it enabled then :D
14:57 < ZexaronS> Linux is being used for so many uses, why do we have to use this subjective "well this operating system is built for XYZ" ... but in practice it's not, so many different versions
14:57 < ZexaronS> or distros as you call them
14:58 < BCMM> ZexaronS: this really isn't the venue for achieving any actual change in the issues you're describing
14:59 < BCMM> i suggest you either find/create an operating system you *do* like, or ask more focused questions towards working around the limitations you're facing
15:00 < ZexaronS> My point is, it's like an emergency escape pod, ... for example, you have 10 airlines getting the newest Boeing airplane, same main model, just a slightly different variation for language, coloring, local things, etc, but WHY ON EARTH would one of those submodels throw out the emergency eqipment, what is the reasoning behind that, unless the distros can provide argument for making stupid SYSRQ defaults i will keep calling it BS
15:00 < peetaur2> fork linux to do what you want...then it'll do that too :)
15:00 < BCMM> ZexaronS: i take your point, but nobody here cares about you calling it BS
15:01 < BCMM> ZexaronS: to be blunt, have you considered getting a blog?
15:05 < kurahaupo> ZexaronS: I agree, I think it's stupid, and the first thing I do is turn them back on. But apparently there are users out there who complain that their computer "crashed" when they mashed a bunch of keys, and blame "stupid $distro"
15:08 < kurahaupo> ZexaronS: diversity is a strength, not a weakness
15:08 < KekSi> tell that to silicon valley :x
15:10 < _bookworm> ZexaronS: it's also a security thing, I  don't want my x screenlock to be killed by sysreq
15:10 < ZexaronS> Yeah, but FAA still has rules which equipments in aircraft are mandatory ... why can't linux kernel have such a policy too, not necessairly some kind of a "swat teams and lawsuits" ofcourse, but just some kind of recommendation that everyone should respect
15:10 < BCMM> _bookworm: if your screenlock was killed by sysrq-k, it would also kill whatever you were hiding behind the screenlock
15:11 < _bookworm> and yet you now have a shell no?
15:11 < _bookworm> also I don't want that
15:11 < BCMM> ZexaronS: that's fundamentally not how the kernel works...
15:11 < BCMM> ZexaronS: it's unenforcable with the kernel's current licensing, so what would the point be?
15:11 < ZexaronS> _bookworm: because such features haven't been designed from ground up, it's all tacked on, the keyboards would need to be changed, that's how we would fix it, WE WOULD MAKE IT HAPPEN doesn't matter if "it doesn't work like this"
15:12 < BCMM> ZexaronS: it would be akin to somebody with no authority trying to tell all distros how to do things. like you are now...
15:12 < peetaur2> diversity + careful selection = strength
15:13 < BCMM> ZexaronS: in the end, different people have different use-cases. if you find that a distro isn't set up out of the box to do exactly what *you, specifically* want it to do, that's probably because you're using a distro that wasn't created from the the ground up just for you
15:13 < BCMM> so either create such a distro, or accept that you're going to have to change a few settings...
15:14 < oiaohm> bookworm:  its possible to disable and enable sysrq  at runtime https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.13/admin-guide/sysrq.html Its in the Linux kernel documentation.
15:15 < bookworm> I know, I do it this way. How come you thought I didn't knew?
15:15 < bookworm> My comment was nore on the merrits of disabling it
15:15 < bookworm> more*
15:15 < ZexaronS> Yes, i did not say enforced, I meant something like "Father Linus's Recommendations" or something, and the defaults would be as such when the kernel releases, if someone wants it disabled they would have to go do it on purpose with conscious action
15:16 < bookworm> Then use a distro that does this
15:16 < oiaohm> bookworm: it was made runtime enable/disable because at times is also very useful.
15:16 < bookworm> ubuntu may not be for you then
15:16 < bookworm> oiaohm: again, sure but why the random highlights?
15:18 < oiaohm> bookworm: think about it how many ways are there past a X11 screen lock.   really sysrq-k is one of the smaller problems.
15:19 < bookworm> oiaohm: hopefully none on my system
15:19 < oiaohm> bookworm: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2015/01/why-screen-lockers-on-x11-cannot-be-secure/
15:19 < bookworm> unless you hvae a login shell but then I don't care
15:20 < oiaohm> bookworm: All X11 screen lockers can be broken because X11 does not support them properly.  It one of the reason we need wayland.
15:20 < bookworm> no, they can be broken by other stuff running on the system yes, but not from the outside
15:21 < bookworm> which is my usecase. I *do* trust the code already running
15:21 < oiaohm> bookworm: if you X11 server is open to network they are breakable by network as well.
15:21 < bookworm> sure but it isn't
15:22 < oiaohm> bookworm: other than you can connect to X11 from inside flash and a few other things.
15:22 < bookworm> sigh... yes broken stuff is broken... who runs flash these days
15:22 < oiaohm> bookworm: so have person visit page and disable their screen locker by setting it to space outside screen.
15:26 < oiaohm> bookworm: "any process connected to the X server can block the screen locker."  Its that bit.  Any process.  This means make webbrowser or anything else on system miss behave right way and X11 screen locker is not going to work.
15:27 < oiaohm> bookworm: so quite a large surface area of attack.
15:28 < bookworm> oiaohm: sandbox the browser
15:29 < oiaohm> bookworm: with what to sandbox the X11 protocol.
15:30 < oiaohm> bookworm: hopefully you are not thinking Xephyr works.  It is serous that is anything connected to the X11 server can block the screen locker.
15:32 < bookworm> oiaohm: no browser allows a site to directly modify X
15:32 < bookworm> that would be suicidal
15:32 < bookworm> smae as any other path directly on disk
15:32 < bookworm> same*
15:32 < noodlepie> Anyone love Linux as much as Cheese?
15:33 < noodlepie> At least Penguins see through windows!
15:33 < Dominian> I love beer more than cheese
15:33 < BCMM> there is cheese with beer in it now
15:34 < mawk> oiaohm: you can run a X server in your sandbox
15:34 < mawk> then connect it to the outside with spice or anything
15:34 < mawk> then you're safe
15:35 < oiaohm> bookworm: but you can create new windows and other items that jam X11 protocol starting a X11 screen locker.   There is basically stack of thing that come from the X11 protocol being defective.
15:35 < noodlepie>  Beer is good, fresh sh*t anyway. I'm really fussy about what I eat, but if it fresh, worth a taste and half decent, I try it digest it at light speed in my wunderkind tummy!
15:36 < oiaohm> mawk: exactly no direct X11 to X11 connectivity or have issues.
15:36 < mawk> but generally you don't run GUI apps in sandboxes, that's suicidal
15:36 < mawk> I mean with sharing the outside Xorg connection
15:36 < mawk> as you said
15:37 < mawk> although some programs may do it, e.g. firejail
15:38 < oiaohm> mawk: then once you properly sandbox X11 for a graphical application then you have a cat fight attempt to have opengl work.
15:39 < oiaohm> mawk: I really do look forward to when wayland is good enough to be used default always.
15:39 < littlepython> is there a command to find the subnet mask?
15:39 < mawk> ip a
15:39 < littlepython> sure
15:40 < mawk> it's not a question
15:40 < mawk> it's the command to type
15:40 < mawk> lol
15:40 < mawk> ip -4 a show scope global
15:41 < mawk> if you want to be more precise
15:42 < littlepython> Also can i know what is the difference between threaddump and a coredump
15:42 < littlepython> i sort of know what is a coredump
15:42 < mawk> first time I hear the word thread dump
15:43 < milpool> i only know thread dumps from java
15:43 < milpool> basically gives you an overview about the status of the existing threads
15:43 < Psi-Jack> littlepython: Homework?
15:43 < milpool> running, locked, etc
15:44 < littlepython> Psi-Jack: hhaha no ;)
15:44 < mawk> explain what a coredump is littlepython
15:44 < Psi-Jack> These almost sound like textbook questions. :p
15:44 < littlepython> mawk:  probably a dump of memory at the time of the incident.
15:45 < milpool> also registers
15:45 < littlepython> milpool: segmentation faults come under coredumps?
15:46 < jnewt> i can't get chrome to close.   i have a tab that's non-responsive.  tried closing the tab, the whole browser, killall google-chrome-stable  and it's still stuck.
15:46 < mawk> normally yes littlepython
15:46 < milpool> little: if a process segfaults, you can get a core dump from that, yes
15:46 < mawk> open up the chrome task manager jnewt
15:46 < mawk> shift+escape
15:46 < mawk> from chrome itself
15:46 < mawk> otherwise you can force kill it
15:47 < mawk> pkill chrome -SIGKILL
15:55 < python476> hi guys
15:56 < python476> do you people now a set of scripts to measure simple system perf like dns, ping, and other subsystems ?
15:56 < learningc> If I write to the framebuffer directly, will it be faster than using drm?
15:59 < g1itch> is anyone here familiar with AIDE? I'm trying to add a rule to the config to ignore modtimes for a specific directory only, but not the files within it
16:08 < puff> Anyone else noticing problems with google chrome recently?  Lately chrome has been spiking to 100+ % of CPU.  When I open the chrome task manager it's not some particular window or extension, it's "Browser".  This seems to be recent and it's incredibly annoying.  Anyone know what's going on?
16:08 < oiaohm> learningc: if you are refering to Linux device framebuffer the answer is maybe.   If Linux framebuffer is implemented on top of DRM it will be slower than DRM.  If driver has direct built in framebuffer support is a maybe as it comes down to the driver.
16:17 < learningc> How is the linux device framebuffer implemented? On top of drm or separated from drm?
16:18 < revel> I think it came before DRM.
16:18 < revel> Yeah, seperate.
16:19 < learningc> Meaning it uses DRM, or DRM uses it?
16:19 < revel> Seperate.
16:19 < learningc> I see
16:20 < learningc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)#/media/File:The_Linux_Graphics_Stack_and_glamor.svg
16:20 < noodlepie> I have a wonderful little "virtual analogue" synthesizer which has a General MIDI 2.0 music modules - filled with samples and DSP effect for "virtual analogue" sound modelling.  It's ace a fully Linux supported thank to a controller Java app which can control the synth's output. And it has 3 channels of these sound modelling synth. It does everything - MIDI 2 drum instruments too - Jean Michel Jarre to Happy Hardcore rave. It like a
16:20 < noodlepie> Roland TB-303 on ACID /itself/.
16:21 < learningc> Is the linux device framebuffer located on the video card as in the picture?
16:22 < ayecee> yes
16:23 < noodlepie> You can even make it load a /sample/ from the GM2 sound bank, and use that PCM as the source signal to the virtual analogue synth functions and effects unit, filtering and amp envelope controllers.
16:31 < Psi-Jack> In mother Russia... DRM uses YOU! :)
16:34 < revel> Psi-Jack: Da Russian Man?
16:39 < angelo_ts> Super Russia !
16:43 < Psi-Jack> Super Contra  :)
16:45 < acresearch> people, anyone knows what is the best channel to ask people regarding high preformance computers (supercomputers) and where to register for one etc... ?
16:45 < Psi-Jack> wut?
16:45 < Psi-Jack> acresearch: Is ##linux the yellow pages of IRC? Do you have a Linux question?
16:45 < noodlepie> All the Free Music - to your Free Software - is available as http://www.freemusicarchive.com./ for songs and http://www.libre.fm./ for music stream playlists - which may not be working at the moment, its down from here.
16:47 < acresearch> Psi-Jack: well all supercomputers run on linux and in the past many people here helped with HPC related question, so i thought someon might have an answer
16:47 < Psi-Jack> acresearch: Umm.. Wrong.
16:48 < fendur> acresearch: what do you mean "register for one"?
16:48 < peetaur2> the top ones only recently became 100% linux ... not all supercomputers run Linux
16:49 < Psi-Jack> acresearch: ##hardware. Be prepared to be corrected many times over.
16:49 < fendur> acresearch: e.g., we have one here at my uni, and they have their own procedures for appealing to them for access.
16:50 < acresearch> fendur: my university's supercomputer exploded a month ago and they are still repairing it, they annouced that the damage is so great they don't know how long it will take, as such all my research projects have halted. i know there is a process for academics from around the world to request computation time, but i don't who to ask and where to ask to register
16:51 < fendur> acresearch: I don't know of any general use academic super computers. I think unis usually have one or contract for one, and you go through that route. I think google is your best friend here.
16:51 < acresearch> fendur: ok thanks
16:52 < fendur> acresearch: maybe your super computer center, while broken atm, has a suggestion?
16:53 < twainwek> acresearch: you apply for accounts, and specify requirements including compute times, node size, cpu/gpu times, and once approved submit jobs. not much to it
16:53 < peetaur2> acresearch: just run it on your home computer :)    how much power does the thing take?
16:53 < acresearch> fendur: they said sorry  we can't help you , you have to wait      :-#$!@   <- not sure how to represent an angry face
16:54 < peetaur2> acresearch: and you can rent cloud gpu compute nodes if that's what you need
16:54 < acresearch> peetaur2: haha i need 1000 cores for a single run
16:54 < fendur> acresearch: AWS?
16:54 < fendur> oh.
16:54 < peetaur2> so use a 16 core ryzen 7 for 2/125ths of a run :)
16:54 < noodlepie> http://www.libre.fm./ is up again. Its powered by GNU Radio, a streaming server for net radio
16:54 < acresearch> peetaur2: hmmm   i am not running machine learning but that is a good idea, GPU, i'll ask the software developers if this si possible, thanks good idea
16:55 < peetaur2> (er 8 core 16 thread)
16:55 < twainwek> acresearch: 1000 cores for what?
16:55 < acresearch> twainwek: run 1,000,000 fold simulations
16:55 < acresearch> per attempt
16:55 < peetaur2> and if you can scale it across multiple nodes, you can also just wait longer
16:55 < peetaur2> which sucks, but is better than right now...where you are running it on 0 nodes and ETA is further away than your lifespan
16:55 < twainwek> does your PI know about these requirements? you will still get charged per cpu hours
16:55 < fendur> maybe also search for a better-resourced university :P
16:56 < fendur> ... to apply to
16:56 < acresearch> peetaur2: haha true
16:56 < fendur> ... for a job.
16:56 < acresearch> twainwek: i am the PI
16:56 < acresearch> fendur: OHH if i can find a better university THAT will really help me, i am really stuck here, this is just the tip of the iceberg, but i am in no mood for ranting haha
16:57 < fendur> acresearch: was your computing center a sunk cost for you? or did you have to pay for it?
16:57 < acresearch> fendur: no payment
16:57 < acresearch> fendur: it was very convenient (we have low funding these days)
16:57 < fendur> acresearch: I know... :/
16:58 < acresearch> but i am willing to put in a bit of my money to push a project or two to completion
16:58 < fendur> acresearch: did you actually price out AWS?
16:58 < twainwek> that seems very unusual. my experience you get only x number of free compute times because the uni gets 50% of your reserach money. after  that they make you pay up
16:58 < acresearch> fendur: i never did,
16:58 < fendur> twainwek: I'm sure it varies by university.
16:58 < fendur> acresearch: might be worth it.
16:58 < acresearch> i know it is afforable, but i am used to SSH, as i understand they are a bit web browesy?
16:58 < twainwek> fendur: no, otherwise one person would hog up all the resources
16:58 < acresearch> fendur: you are right, i should
16:59 < fendur> acresearch: you can run whatever OS you want, I think.
16:59 < peetaur2> too bad our cluster only has 896 cpus  https://www.brockmann-consult.de/ganglia/?c=calvalus
16:59 < acresearch> twainwek: we have very little funding, if they charge us no one will be able to use the HPC
17:00 < acresearch> peetaur2: wow that is tiny
17:00 < noodlepie> How do I find out how many GPU cores I need to compile Linux with? I have an Intel Xeon/i7 laptop with a i965/nvidia GPU
17:00 < Psi-Jack> noodlepie: You make 0% sense.
17:00 < peetaur2> if your project had to do with remote sensing data, you could probably open a project with us ...but I'm not a sales guy or anything and have no idea how that works. :)
17:01 < acresearch> peetaur2: haha thanks, but no i am computationally desning vaccines, dengue/zika/chikungunya at the moment, and i need to simulate the protein folding to guid me
17:01 < acresearch> peetaur2: but thanks :-)
17:03 < acresearch> i will if i can use GPUs, paperpace allows SSH to GPU machines, also AWS will help. otherwise i will see if a university can accomodate me for a month or so :-(
17:03 < noodlepie> Psi-Jack, The kernel has a "Number of GPU cores supported" in its config. Where do I get this information from a running machine?
17:03 < fendur> acresearch: g'luck
17:03 < twainwek> acresearch: the service does not operate in "The Cloud", it still has an operating cost, and the money partly comes from your research money you bring in. if the operation cost > incoming cost, it goes away. logically what you're saying is not sustainable
17:03 < acresearch> fendur: thanks
17:04 < acresearch> twainwek: i didn't understand you, explain again please?
17:04 < Psi-Jack> noodlepie: You seem to be confused.
17:04 < twainwek> acresearch: operational cost >> available money = bye bye service
17:04 < acresearch> twainwek: oh you mean operating the HPC?
17:05 < Psi-Jack> aaa_|away: Please disable whatever you're using to set an "away" nick. They are not allowed in this channel for reasons that this is a large channel, and nick changes for "status" is nothing more than noise.
17:05 < twainwek> yes, and by operating i mean staffing, maintenance, and operating costs
17:06 < fendur> just a thought, but I don't think acresearch needs a lesson on how university super computing usually works, or tends to work at large universities.
17:06 < acresearch> twainwek: i see, you are right, but nearly all our funding is within the university, so it would be like giving the university its money back,,, external funding for us is very rare due to bureaucratic restrictions
17:07 < ananke> acresearch: #hpc
17:07 < HaMsTeRs> how come windows remote desktop client is much faster than any linux remote desktop client?
17:07 < acresearch> ananke: ahhh  nice thank you , i will talk to them :-)
17:07 < ananke> acresearch: also, look at https://www.xsede.org/
17:07 < HaMsTeRs> is that true there's no compression for linux rdp client?
17:07 < Psi-Jack> HaMsTeRs: How come the Sky is Blue during the day but is Black during night time?
17:08 < HaMsTeRs> when connecting with a poor network connection
17:08 < HaMsTeRs> Psi-Jack, something about the sun?
17:08 < ananke> acresearch: xsede can get you access to HPC resources, if you do research in a US based institution
17:08 < acresearch> ananke: ohhhh nice, this is very useful
17:09 < Xiretza> I have a directory with a lot of files, each of which should have a corresponding .sig file. what is the easiest way to find all the ones that don't?
17:09 < acresearch> ananke: hmmm i will need to USA partner then, i am sure there is a way :-)   but great initiative,
17:10 < sembianc1> which organizations are actively trying to destroy systemd/lennart poettering/redhat? I'd like to make those orgs a generous financial donation to help support the fight against the plague
17:11 < jelly> cool story bro
17:12 < peetaur2> sembiance: I doubt anyone sane and rational wants to "destroy" those...they only want freedom of choice so they don't have to use them if they don't want to
17:12 < peetaur2> like redhat is kinda horrid in many ways so you don't have to use it, but even if you don't, just its existence fuels the development of whatever other distro you use.... ever used qemu-kvm? redhat has put lots into making that quite awesome
17:13 < sembiance> peetaur2: ahh, well, true. I'm *mostly* happy using Gentoo. I donate to them yearly. Also donating to devuan even though I don't use them
17:13 < twainwek> i had few people come ask for help getting stuff working in the hpc center, and all of them had developed this unrealistic image of what a "supercomputer" is and how it can magically scale up their crappy code
17:13 < peetaur2> also gentoo....which I don't like, but I love openrc, thanks gentoo :)
17:13 < sembiance> peetaur2: I love gentoo :)
17:14 < gronke> I'm using a portal software called Galaxy that I run by typing "sudo sh run.sh," and it starts an instance of it. How can I get this to start on reboot for my CentOS 7 server?
17:15 < gronke> I'm guessing it involves something with systemd but I'm not sure
17:16 < MrElendig> why does this have to run as root?
17:17 < MrElendig> also man systemd.unit etc
17:17 < MrElendig> centos also had documentation on how to write units
17:17 < peetaur2> gronke: just something like  https://bpaste.net/show/99c4fd1ca63e
17:18 < peetaur2> and I have assumed run as root in there....but why?
17:18 < gronke> MrElendig, it doesn't have to I just don't have permsission to run it on my default user account
17:18 < MrElendig> then don't run it as root
17:18 < gronke> MrElendig, I'm not sure how to fix that. if I type sh run.sh I get a permission denied message
17:19 < elmomani> guys, can I install mac OS on my pc ?
17:19 < peetaur2> so make a system user, give it the data it needs (like some dir to save files, or whatever this thing needs...like tomcat needs the work dir and tmp dir, apache needs nothing writable) and run it as that
17:19 < fendur> HaMsTeRs: I've expereinced very similar speeds in both environments. Maybe you aren't giving attention to the default configuation parameters.
17:19 < elmomani> guys, can I install mac OS on my pc ?
17:19 < fendur> elmomani: impossible!
17:19 < elmomani> intresting :3
17:19 < HaMsTeRs> fendur,
17:19 < elmomani> but why ?
17:20 < MrElendig> elmomani: not legally
17:20 < fendur> electroglue: the solar flares have just been too strong lately.
17:20 < elmomani> is there any linux distro looks like mac ?
17:20 < fendur> oops. elmomani ^
17:20 < peetaur2> elmomani: you can make it a VM (which is like 18% on topic), or modify the os installer to work on your hardware (which is 0% on topic)
17:20 < HaMsTeRs> hackintosh seem something you are looking for
17:21 < peetaur2> and legally or not depends on jurisdiction...in many places, nobody can sell you a thing with a restriction on how you use it, such as which hardware you can run it on
17:22 < fendur> elmomani: google will tell you about window managers that are good at looking like osx
17:22 < peetaur2> might void the warranty, fail to download updates, have no driver support (look up "hackintosh" (the 0% on topic topic) for that), etc. but they can't legally stop you from trying (in those jurisdictions)
17:23 < elmomani> what do you mean by "(the 0% on topic topic)" ?
17:23 < elmomani> anyway everything is legeal here :) :3
17:23 < Isky> elmomani: osx isn't on topic for a linux channel.. That's what he meant.
17:24 < fendur> elmomani: I took it as a reference to the overarching topic of the channel
17:24 < elmomani> oh ok
17:24 < elmomani> thank you guys anyway ,I'll fedora :3
17:24 < peetaur2> elmomani: I mean building hardware to install mac os has nothing at all to do with the topic of this IRC channel
17:24 < elmomani> install^
17:24 < peetaur2> but if you want help with the linux side of setting up a VM, then you can ask here
17:25 < elmomani> no I am good with VMs
17:26 < Isky> elmomani: unity can be made to look like osx. not that I like unity, but that's the only requirement you gave
17:26 < Isky> kde can, to a point, as well
17:26 < revel> Nobody's mentioned Elementary yet?
17:26 < collins> Everybody, you're all clear for takeoff. Engage! Your task is to destabilize the romulan starship by refractoring the main engine beam.
17:26 < revel> collins: When's my paycheck coming in/
17:27 < collins> revel: ramirez, this is not a good time for jokes! Where's my plasma missile
17:27 < revel> Right where you left it, sir. Under your bed.
17:28 < ayecee> i don't get it. are you kids memeing?
17:28 < Isky> elmomani: check out OSX-Arc for .. gnome, I think..
17:28 < Isky> elmomani: https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1167049/  yeah, gnome
17:29 < elmomani> @Isky, thank u
17:29  * noodlepie rocks
17:29 < sembiance> elmomani: why restrict your OS to looking like OSX? Why not explore alternative window managers, maybe even a tiling one like awesomewm?
17:29 < Isky> elmomani: there are several OSX looking gtk3 themes, actually: https://www.gnome-look.org/browse/cat/135/
17:31 < Success> so i saw GNU/Linux-libre for the first time today
17:33 < fendur> Success: you mean that particular string of characters?
17:33 < Success> yes
17:33 < fendur> is your point that it's getting excessive?
17:33 < fendur> :)
17:33 < Success> haha yup i got a good kick out of that string of characters :D
17:46 < Chorse> hey guys
17:47 < Chorse> what is the configuration file for apache that has the port forwarding info?
17:47 < fendur> forwarding? or binding?
17:48 < Psi-Jack> Chorse: httpd.conf
17:48 < ayecee> Chorse: apache doesn't do port forwarding. not sure what you mean.
17:48 < Psi-Jack> heh
17:48 < Psi-Jack> Also true.
17:48 < Chorse> hmm. i'm kinda new to apache http servers, so my question was kinda stupid
17:49 < Chorse> what i meant was
17:49 < Chorse> let's say www.example.com:5012 should load a file called index.php
17:49 < ayecee> the self-flagellation is entertaining but not actually necessary
17:49 < Chorse> how can this be resolved?
17:49 < ayecee> still not sure what you mean
17:49 < Psi-Jack> Chorse: You mean to be silent? Hit enter excessively for every pause in thought, and/or punctuation?
17:50 < ayecee> it sounds like maybe you're talking about virtual hosts, but also something to do with ports.
17:50 < Psi-Jack> Chorse: it helps to explain the overall situation, what you're trying to accomplish as a goal, what problems you're having, and what you have done. Along with supproting information like environment, etc.
17:50 < Chorse> okay
17:50 < Chorse> i'm kinda sorry to you guys for not telling any of my circumstances
17:51 < ayecee> don't need sorry, need improvement ;)
17:51 < Psi-Jack> ^
17:51 < Chorse> my situation is, i'm doing a practice CTF game for web exploits
17:51 < Psi-Jack> Ugh.
17:51 < Chorse> and i've managed to access nearly every file within the server's filesystem
17:51 < Chorse> using a vuln in the website
17:51 < Psi-Jack> Then. you are on your own.
17:52 < Chorse> but, i have to find the exact, absolute location to a certain php file that i know the name of
17:52 < Psi-Jack> And stop hitting enter!
17:53 < TJ-> Chorse: /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/* contains symlinks to /etc/apache2/sites-available/*  which contains virtual host definition files
17:53 < TJ-> Chorse: most likely there's a single 000-default.conf in there
17:54 < Chorse> TJ: it doesn't seem to exist or it is un accessible
17:54 < ayecee> that's where it normally is. your CTF webserver may be set up differently :P
17:55 < Psi-Jack> Heh
17:55 < Psi-Jack> He's going to lose. :)
17:56 < noway96> what's IRC pastebin equivalent for images?
17:56 < TJ-> I cannot understand why someone doing one of those challenges doesn't set up a local VM to compare against!
17:56 < Psi-Jack> noway96: IRC equivalent? None. There's image sites like imgur, though.
18:15 < noway96> To create a bootable USB do I just need a EFI/BOOT folder with necessary boot files inside that?
18:15 < EriC^^> noway96: yeah, on a FAT partition
18:15 < noway96> fat32
18:15 < EriC^^> that's just for uefi, not bios or csm legacy
18:15 < noway96> efi/uefi?
18:16 < EriC^^> yeah same thing
18:16 < noway96> curious, why only fat32?
18:16 < EriC^^> that's the implementation's standard, dunno why exactly
18:16 < revel> noway96: That's the standard for UEFI.
18:17 < revel> Because it's simple and everyone supports it or something.
18:25 < AbleBacon> what is this hackery and is there a proper way to do whatever this command is doing without any magic numbers?
18:25 < AbleBacon> sudo sfdisk --force -uM /dev/sdX <<EOF
18:25 < AbleBacon> 		10,,83
18:25 < AbleBacon> 		EOF
18:26 < ayecee> it's essentially piping commands to sfdisk
18:26 < revel> By typing everything before the <<EOF, then typing "10,,83" and hitting enter, probably.
18:26 < ayecee> i don't think sfdisk has commandline options to do the same, so you'd need to use a different tool to do it all on commandline
18:27 < AbleBacon> well i think it's making a partition basically
18:27 < AbleBacon> but how can i decode that and make a partition the "normal" way?
18:27 < revel> By typing everything before the <<EOF, then typing "10,,83" and hitting enter, probably.
18:27 < ayecee> start sfdisk manually and hit those keys in sequence
18:27 < ayecee> you'll see what fdisk is doing.
18:28 < ayecee> sfdisk rather. it's probably creating partition 1, starting at sector 0, accepting defaults for size, and setting type to 83 (linux partition)
18:28 < VjdfMQ> Hey all
18:28 < VjdfMQ> Mouse just dissapeared
18:29 < VjdfMQ> Could anyone suggest a way to return it ?
18:29 < TJ-> Ask the cat
18:29 < revel> VjdfMQ: Get a cat to find it.
18:29 < ayecee> look behind the curtain
18:29 < AbleBacon> oh
18:29 < AbleBacon> didn't realize sfdisk was interactive
18:29 < AbleBacon> thanks
18:29 < VjdfMQ> revel: For roeal
18:29 < VjdfMQ> real *
18:29 < VjdfMQ> Anyone ?
18:29 < VjdfMQ> The cursor I mean
18:29 < ayecee> have you tried turning it off and on again
18:29 < revel> ^
18:29 < VjdfMQ> ayecee: This is touchpad
18:29 < ayecee> is that a no?
18:30 < VjdfMQ> Also, yup, I've tried to enable it and disable
18:30 < ayecee> have you tried turning the computer off and on again
18:30 < VjdfMQ> ...
18:30 < TJ-> VjdfMQ: mouse pointer became invisible? or pointer is visible but doesn't respond to movement?
18:30 < noway96> cp with progress bar?
18:30 < revel> noway96: pv
18:30 < VjdfMQ> TJ-: It doesn't respond
18:30 < revel> No, wait.
18:31 < VjdfMQ> I see the cursor when clicking Alt-Tab for a moment
18:31 < TJ-> VjdfMQ: what kind of interface? USB, PS/2, Bluetooth, SDIO ?
18:32 < VjdfMQ> TJ-: How to check ?
18:32 < alexneudatchin> VjdfMQ run livecd
18:32 < VjdfMQ> Oh dear
18:32 < VjdfMQ> These suggestions
18:32 < VjdfMQ> Guys
18:32 < revel> When did it disappear?
18:32 < alexneudatchin> fuck you
18:33 < jelly> noway96: rsync -P... gives a progress bar, but for each file separately
18:33 < VjdfMQ> It could be after locking and unlocking a pc
18:33 < VjdfMQ> notebook *
18:33 < TJ-> VjdfMQ: have you tried switching to another VT and back again? (e.g. Cltr+Alt+F1 then Ctrl+alt+F7 )
18:33 < VjdfMQ> TJ-: Yes. The same
18:33 < jelly> VjdfMQ: X cursor or terminal cursor?
18:34 < liveuser__> gpm used to control the mouse in terminals. I don't know what it does now.
18:34 < VjdfMQ> X cursor
18:34 < TJ-> VjdfMQ: what distro and version ?
18:35 < VjdfMQ> KDE Neon 5.8
18:35 < VjdfMQ> Ubuntu 16.04
18:35 < VjdfMQ> Oh
18:36 < VjdfMQ> I see something in logs. Dmesg has something like: pmouse serio2: Trackpoint IMB Trackpoint firmware: 0x08, button 3/3
18:36 < TJ-> VjdfMQ: check /var/log/Xorg.0.log for errors or loss of that input device. Also check $HOME/.xsession-errors
18:38 < VjdfMQ> Interesting
18:38 < VjdfMQ> I've just put it to sleep and waked and it workds.
18:39 < VjdfMQ> I've tried this one after seeing a strange thing in logs. The laptop has suspended devices while it was on. Strange this out there maybe.
18:40 < VjdfMQ> Thank you very much btw
18:41 < rocketmagnet> hi everyone
18:50 < mknod> Hi
18:50 < mknod> 1) Do you care about CLI utilities having non-conventional usages such as "mandatory options", option with more than one option arguments, required multiple positional paramaters, etc? or not really as long as it's properly documented?
18:50 < mknod> 2) Do you think a general-purpose option parsing library should allow (encourage?) what unix folks might consider bad form or poor CLI design?
18:50 < mknod> Thanks
18:51 < ayecee> blog post
18:51 < mknod> definitely not
18:53 < mknod> ayecee, if I was about to write a shitty article on a shitty blog, I'd express my own opinion, and certainly wouldn't need to do a quick survey
18:53 < ayecee> oh ok
18:55 < sauvin> I've gotten used to how most things on the CLI work as is and would probably eschew anything that varies too widely from those norms.
18:55 < bls> mknod: that's a rant of people struggling with the CLI after spending all their life point and clicking their way through things. the rest of us accept that UIs are inconsistent, learn the tools, and get on with it
18:56 < sauvin> Not... exactly. Some of us yahoos write scripts or aliases to wrap them. :D
18:57 < mknod> sauvin, can you elaborate quickly on "widely"? Does a required option go too far, for example?
18:58 < sauvin> I could very easily see an option being *mandatory*, but most such commands assume defaults.
18:58 < revel> mknod: If a required option makes sense for the utility, then why dislike it??
18:58 < emberquill> Honestly, if it follows the POSIX standard for command options then it'll be much easier to learn for people used to the CLI already.
18:58 < revel> i.e rm, ln, mkdir, fdisk etc
18:58 < mknod> revel, because it makes no sense
18:58 < sauvin> Huh?
18:59 < mknod> (to me)
18:59 < revel> No, wait, options, not parameters.
18:59 < hexnewbie> All options should be mandatory, like with dd, except for programs with homogeneous arguments or arguments with clear order. In other words, all arguments that can be confused should be named, and ‘options’ are the standard way to name things
18:59 < kh0l> O/
18:59 < hexnewbie> s/options should be mandatory/mandatory arguments should be options/
19:00 < sauvin> OK, well, consider a CLI command that has a mandatory "option: apt-get. What follows isn't actually even formatted as an "option" on the command line because it's a verb. Example: apt-get install
19:00 < mknod> dd uses its own syntax, I think such tools (along with find, exiftool etc) are off topic here
19:00 < sauvin> How would they be off-topic?
19:00 < emberquill> Isn't the usage of nonstandard syntax the actual topic to begin with?
19:00 < sauvin> Standard ones, too!
19:00 < bls> in apt-get install, install is an argument, not an option
19:00 <@sauvin> The ops won't scream.
19:00 < mknod> bls, it's a "verb"
19:01 < bls> a verb according to what spec?
19:01 < sauvin> According to the one in my head.
19:01 < hexnewbie> mknod: dd is an example of a program where all arguments are *named*, which is a very good practice to avoid ambiguity and to make it clear what a program does, which can normally be expressed using mandatory options, like ‘do-thing --input=file --output=file’
19:01 < bls> I'm coming at this from a getopts perspective
19:01 < revel> sauvin: Promise?
19:01 < mknod> If they were specs, i wouldn't be asking here :)
19:01 < hexnewbie> mknod: That's way more clear and less error-prone than ‘do-thing file1 file2’
19:02 < sauvin> And hexnewbie makes a beautiful case for why I sometimes write things the way I write them.
19:02 < bls> right, so there's no spec and everything works differently. until you defined a new OS/standard, that's just the way things are going to be
19:03 < mknod> hexnewbie, agreed, that's just not the traditional way to design CLIs (be it good or not)
19:03 < mknod> actually, out of my two questions, the second is the most important
19:03 < sauvin> Have a look at your /usr/bin. Count all the executables. They all have different purposes, work in different ways, do different things. What kind of "standardisation" can you really achieve on the CLI for these?
19:03 < sauvin> Restate that second question, please.
19:04 < Dagmar> *cough* getopts()
19:04 < Sitri> <mknod> 2) Do you think a general-purpose option parsing library should allow (encourage?) what unix folks might consider bad form or poor CLI design?
19:04 < sauvin> Have fun trying to prohibit it.
19:05 < barometz> I strongly suspect that the interface of an option parsing library can only be made simpler by having a cohesive way of doing things
19:05 < sauvin> Anyway, we have getopts. What more would anybody need?
19:05 < bls> the second you try to force something on someone where there's a lack of a standard, they're just going to use something different to accomplish what they really want
19:05 < mknod> sauvin, I think only GNU getopt (enhanced) is actually worth it
19:05 < mknod> a good example of what I consider a bad library is python's argparse
19:06 < mknod> because it's too permissive
19:06 < sauvin> Never even heard of it.
19:06 < bls> except argparse is nice, because it can emulate many different styles
19:07 < sauvin> I really only have two requirements for a command I've never seen before: (1) command --help and (2) a complete man page.
19:08 < sauvin> For some odd reason, command -h or command -? irritate the living crap out of me.
19:08 < bls> ^ that's one that that drives me nuts: cmd --help -> invalid argument, cmd -h -> hostname required, cmd -H -> see the man page
19:08 < jelly> sauvin: you must be gnu around here
19:08 < sauvin> I'm not. I'm a camel.
19:08 < koala_man> hopefully --help will be an error and show complete usage
19:09 < mknod> the original getopt doesn't allow long option afaik
19:09 < jelly> bls: some of those show a short Usage if called as just "cmd"
19:09 < adac> how can I debug this webdav issue guys?
19:09 < adac> https://pastebin.com/RCqCNV58
19:09 < adac> I also tried cadaver, there I can mount it
19:09 < adac> but it is very very slow
19:09 < Dagmar> Well, it's webdav
19:10 < Dagmar> Check the server's logs.
19:10 < mknod> so basically, most of you think a library should be as much flexible as possible, and agnostic towards what people might do with it, as wrong as it can be?
19:10 < Dagmar> mknod: idiot-proofing is impossible
19:10 < mknod> it's not about "prohibiting", but "not encouragin"
19:10 < bls> jelly: right, but the discussion is around the lack of standards. cmd could just as easily sit there waiting on data on stdin
19:11 < Dagmar> cmd's job could _be_ to get data from stdin
19:11 < Dagmar> Good thing we have POSIX
19:11 < bls> mknod: there is no wrong, so yes, be flexible so people will actually want to use it
19:12 < mknod> bls, you are a pragmatic person, I probably needed this
19:14 < jelly> bad thing, is actual Linux installations don't work without a crapton of stuff that works on top, around, and instead of POSIX
19:14 < sauvin> For me, on one end of the spectrum is something like ls or tar, short options can be bundled (tar -xvf something), and on the other end is the wonderfully baroque monstrosity that is 'find'.
19:14 < bls> mknod: I love a good standards bat to hit people with when they do something wrong. in the absence of one, you're talking coke vs pepsi
19:14 < jelly> [insert ObXkcd about standards]
19:14 < absurdistani> bls: any decent person would understand that Pepsi is better than Coke.
19:14 < absurdistani> bls, ;)
19:15 < sauvin> Naw... Coke is where it's at! It's the Real Thing!
19:15 < sssilver> absurdistani: that's absurd
19:15 < sssilver> username checks out
19:15 < absurdistani> XD
19:15 < mknod> bls, yes, sometimes it's just hard to ditch your own "political views" on things when designing an interface
19:15 < mknod> just because most people may have the wrong exceptations in the first place
19:16 < noodlepie> absurdistani, actually both pepsi and cokacola are equals in the popularity stakes. But you can get either in Cherry flavour so all's wekk!
19:16 < noodlepie> I like Dr Pepper, I drink a litre a day!
19:16 < sauvin> That would be "expectations", I think.
19:16 < absurdistani> noodlepie: but wild cherry pepsi is much better than cherry coke :D
19:16 < sauvin> What would be "wrong"?
19:17 < emberquill> noodlepie: Dr. Pepper definitely wins in my opinion
19:17 < bls> mknod: I'll set my opinions down and argue from an idealistic point of view until it hits implementation time, then the compromises and pragmatism kicks in
19:17 < mknod> the "Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept" doesn't help here
19:17 < sauvin> Why?
19:18 < bls> the "liberal in what you accept" bit is how we got argparse that can do short, long, hybrid, single arg, multi-arg, etc, etc
19:18 < mknod> sauvin, I cannot help but think that something that is close-to but not-exactly-like is deceptive in some way
19:18 < sauvin> o.O
19:18 < sauvin> Can you supply examples?
19:18 < sauvin> (not sure I'm following)
19:19 < ayecee> how's the blogging coming XD
19:19 < ayecee> some people only ask you their opinion so they have an in to tell you theirs
19:19 < ayecee> ask you your opinion*
19:20 < mknod> ayecee, I'm considering rewriting a library and thought I'd ditch all the cool and shiny features most people seems to want
19:20 < mknod> but bls got it right basically
19:21 < bls> mknod: delved into any of the suckless pages/projects? I like what they do; most people think they're braindead and refuse to touch the stuff
19:21 < muricantrump> anyone tried gentoo and arch both? which one do you prefer and why?
19:21 < mknod> sauvin, when you're familiar with an environment you have expecations on how things are supposed to work
19:21 < hexnewbie> We at one point had a ssh-copy-id wrapper/companion that could do things like ‘deploy-ssh-keys remove --keys mary john --servers dev1 dev2 git@mordor; deploy-ssh-keys add --keys frodo gandalf --servers +devservers +testservers --usernames git dev test
19:22 < absurdistani> bls, I use suckless stuff. I haven't really touched their code tho
19:22 < dgurney> muricantrump, both are excellent, but Arch is better if the computer has a not-so-powerful CPU and you don't feel like waiting
19:22 < mknod> bls, got any example?
19:22 < hexnewbie> Although the final syntax sucked as well, positional didn't worked at all.
19:23 < sauvin> I've been avoiding positionals in my own stuff because I can never [CENSORED] remember what the order is supposed to be.
19:23 < koala_man> I don't think being liberal in what you accept is as advisable as first thought
19:23 < sauvin> I'm always [CENSORED] getting the [CENSORED] thing all [CENSORED] up.
19:24 < sauvin> koala_man, what do you mean?
19:24 < hexnewbie> Yeah. The tool has a positional syntax, and every time I wonder, was it ‘... add key srv1 srv1’, or ‘... add key1 key2 srv’, or ‘... add srv key1 key2’
19:24 < muricantrump> dgurney: your main OS is?
19:24 < koala_man> sauvin: we've since learned that it might be better to fail fast with a clear message than to accept and guess what the other side meant
19:24 < mknod> sauvin, to elaborate, a deceptive behavior here, would be a utility that's close enough to a good old unix utility, but with an option that accepts 2 option arguments
19:25 < sauvin> Again: examples?
19:25 < mknod> actual or theoretical?
19:25 < dgurney> muricantrump, both :)
19:25 < sauvin> Actual.
19:25 < sauvin> I've not had nearly enough coffee yet to manage "theoretical".
19:26 < mknod> don't have any, but surely argparse and all the others famous librairies allow this
19:26 < muricantrump> dgurney: which one is more stable
19:26 < muricantrump> :D
19:26 < sauvin> "surely"? We're arguing about vapourware?
19:26 < dgurney> both are equally stable for me
19:26 < mknod> ./command --option foo bar <- if you don't read carefully the donc, then you'd think bar is a positional argument
19:26 < sauvin> Yeah, that one I'd have to read up on.
19:27 < mknod> anyway, think the topic is closed now, thanks for your input
19:27 < bls> mknod: nothing concrete, it's just more the way their stuff has fallen out from their philosophy and discussions on their mailing list
19:27 < mknod> s/donc/doc
19:27 < noodlepie> Just installing new kernel, when will the rebootless update be available?
19:27 < muricantrump> dgurney: ok
19:27 < bls> noodlepie: it already is
19:28 < jelly> sauvin: find's -exec takes 2 or even 3 args.
19:28 < hexnewbie> mknod: foo as well. But it *is* a positional argument, it's just not clear if it is argument to the --option option, or to the command. Yeah, that's a shortcoming of options taking multiple arguments, but it's often a good trade-off.
19:28 < mknod> <koala_man> sauvin: we've since learned that it might be better to fail fast with a clear message than to accept and guess what the other side meant
19:28 < dgurney> well, kexec allows you to skip the firmware and boot the new kernel directly
19:28 < mknod> koala_man, that's my current view on it
19:28 < hexnewbie> mknod: So long as the program doesn't mix regular positional with it
19:28 < mknod> a minimalist-but-robust approach
19:28 < jelly> whoever wrote find's syntax should probably be shot tho
19:28 < sauvin> jelly: "the wonderfully baroque monstrosity that is find". I've actually long ago begun thinking of find as a kind of *language*.
19:29 < bls> socat is another favorite
19:29 < bodangly> how do I target attributes in sysfs from udev? For instance if I want to change group on files in /devices/virtual/input/input1? I tried SUBSYSTEM=="input" but it only hits the dev nodes
19:29 < mknod> sauvin, problem is, a language should be in strong quotes to avoid shell parsing
19:29 < mknod> just like bc, awk, etc
19:30 < sauvin> You've just pointed out why I'm useless with one-liners in those languages.
19:30 < hexnewbie> Find's arguments are not options, they are expression operations provided as arguments. Thinking of them in this manner makes find quite palatable, and excusable. It would be much less powerful it was using options. Expressions can express things mere options can not
19:30 < mknod> (not sure bc is a good example as it reads on stdin, but you get my point)
19:30  * jelly throws a {} at hexnewbie 
19:31 < mknod> thanks people
19:32 < koala_man> jelly: please don't encourage shooting Unix pioneers. It's easy for us to complain with fourty years of hindsight
19:33 < hexnewbie> Maybe if find would be less confusing if it just dropped the dash in front of tests, and adopted a more BPF/tcpdump/pcap-like syntax. Like, “find '(' name '*.jpg' or name '*.png' ')' mtime '>yesterday'
19:33 < Isky> I don't have issues with find's syntax. I guess I realized a long time ago things weren't all gonna be the same and just learned how they are.
19:34 < mknod> find is one of those rare commands for which I once decided to read the full manpage from top to bottom
19:34 < hexnewbie> Hm, [ instead of '(' to avoid the quotes?
19:35 < bodangly> so no thoughts on how to target a sysfs attribute with a udev rule?
19:35 < mknod> ... just to realize I had the wrong expectations
19:40 < muricantrump> Murica
19:40 < muricantrump> trump 2020
19:41 < absurdistani> have the hannah montana linux guys made a trump linux yet?
19:41 < muricantrump> lol
19:41 < absurdistani> I figured that'd be right up their alley
19:41 < jelly> ##politics are that way -->
19:41 < megaTherion> lets trump it
19:41 < Psi-Jack> YR3aG4hQ: Have you disabled that?
19:42 < muricantrump> once linux is great, there will be
19:42 < muricantrump> for now, linux is inferior hence it can be named obama or hillary ;)
19:42 < Psi-Jack> sMFts2gy: Or did you switch it to some randomizer instead? :p
19:43 < megaTherion> linux is communism stuff
19:43 < megaTherion> so it cant be so great for umerica
19:43 < Psi-Jack> megaTherion: Stop.
19:43 < sMFts2gy> yes i edited with ollydbg
19:43 < megaTherion> with what?
19:43 < sMFts2gy> now away is gone
19:43 < Psi-Jack> megaTherion: Stop trolling. Stop the noise.
19:43 < megaTherion> I dont care, I luckily am not from US ^^
19:43 < noodlepie> America is about Freedom. Great for EVERYONE!
19:44 < sMFts2gy> lol^^
19:44 < solidfox> is there a way to play a video when logged into console? not as ascii art with caca, but as a regular video
19:44 < sMFts2gy> and thank you for the link
19:44 < megaTherion> noodlepie: as long as there is any state there cant be any freedom *shrugs*
19:44 < absurdistani> ummm.... wow. we went from jokes to like... suddenly politics.
19:44 < hexnewbie> solidfox: mplayer or mpv's -vo fbdev or fbdev2
19:44 < sMFts2gy> i need to finish read it but i will read it
19:44 < sMFts2gy> thank you psy
19:44 < hexnewbie> solidfox: There are (were?) others too
19:45 < Psi-Jack> sMFts2gy: it's Psi-Jack, not psy.
19:45 < noodlepie> the state should be replaced by an suite of crowd funded think tanks for policy research, and an online open court. Universal law will mean we can disband armed forces and just have a staff police enforcing this law
19:45 < noodlepie> Human rights will be clear here!
19:45 < sMFts2gy> psy-jack yes sorry,,,
19:45 < Psi-Jack> sMFts2gy: It's Psi-Jack, not psy-jack.
19:45 < sMFts2gy> Psi-Jack
19:45 < Psi-Jack> Use the power of TAB!
19:46 < tpanarch1st> hi there, i managed to over-fill my hard drive and mess up, when I tried to remove some files that I put in the directory, the system stopped me doing that, is there any way round this please?
19:46 < sMFts2gy> Psi-Jack,
19:46 < sMFts2gy> wow thanks didnt know that
19:46 < Psi-Jack> sMFts2gy: heh
19:46 < megaTherion> how can anyone overfill the drive?
19:46 < tpanarch1st> root@pve:/var/lib/vz/dump# rm vz-bash: cannot create temp file for here-document: No space left on device
19:46 < tpanarch1st> -bash: cannot create temp file for here-document: No space left on device
19:46 < sMFts2gy> Psi-Jack,
19:46 < megaTherion> if its full its full...
19:46 < sMFts2gy> megaTherion,
19:46 < noodlepie> Its the era of flying cars and sky high sky scrapers, life as one!
19:46 < sMFts2gy> lol^^
19:46 < tpanarch1st> megaTherion: it's overfilled, because I can't delete anything.
19:47 < megaTherion> interesting
19:47 < absurdistani> tpanarch1st: you need to do an unlink
19:47 < megaTherion> harddisk as some kind of landfill
19:47 < absurdistani> tpanarch1st: first, df -i
19:47 < hexnewbie> Why would bash need a here-document temporary file just to delete stuff, though?
19:47 < absurdistani> tpanarch1st: make sure it's not just inode use
19:47 < megaTherion> tpanarch1st: probably your filesystem has got the creeps
19:48 < hexnewbie> Also if it cn't create a temporary file, maybe /tmp needs a cleanup, not /var/lib/vz/dump
19:48 < absurdistani> tpanarch1st: then if you find a dir in which you can delete everything: cd /wherever && perl -e 'for(<*>){((stat)[9]<(unlink))}'
19:48 < megaTherion> absurdistani: inodes? werent we past that problems?
19:48 < tpanarch1st> absurdistani: https://pastebin.com/EVXk8p72
19:48 < hexnewbie> tpanarch1st: Don't use tab completion when /tmp is full, use ls and write whole file names. That's a known issues with fill / or /tmp, and it's annoying, but as soon as you clean a megabyte you can go back to using tab again
19:48 < Psi-Jack> sMFts2gy: TAB, text, not TAB, enter.
19:49 < absurdistani> tpanarch1st: and what does df -h show?
19:49 < tpanarch1st> oh sweet hexnewbie - just to get my ducks in a row, could this be a way round this absurdistani
19:49 < tpanarch1st> sure i'll just run that command for absurdistani
19:49 < hexnewbie> tpanarch1st: Your inodes are fine. Regular df  is more interesting here, like ‘df -h’
19:50 < tpanarch1st> absurdistani: https://pastebin.com/rJ5pAafE
19:50 < hexnewbie> tpanarch1st: But /tmp and /var/lib/vz/dump are both on the  / filesystem, so. Yeah, clearly / that filled.
19:50 < megaTherion> see its not overfilled :)
19:50 < hexnewbie> megaTherion: LOL. Subtle
19:51 < tpanarch1st> na fairs megaTherion :)
19:51 < megaTherion> tpanarch1st: solution is simple, boot another OS - move stuff from that disk to another place
19:51 < tpanarch1st> yeah i overfilled the backups section!
19:51 < absurdistani> tpanarch1st: so, you will need to: cd / && du -sh * 2>/dev/null
19:51 < megaTherion> but dont expect that the same OS on that disk will run flawlessly
19:51 < hexnewbie> tpanarch1st: Just avoid tab completion until you free some space. (If you have mc, that sometimes works without /tmp, IIRC)
19:51 < absurdistani> and keep going to each next largest dir and find your culprit
19:51 < megaTherion> maybe mount /tmp to RAM for temporary solution...
19:51 < tpanarch1st> can i just delete some stuff without having to run a second hard drive off it
19:51  * SysGhost is trying to grsp the concept of an over-filled fs. <imagines a bulginghard drive leaking helium everywhere>
19:52 < absurdistani> then use the unlink command. you can always unlink even when you cannot rm
19:52 < tpanarch1st> i just put two many backups on a test environment at the same time is all :)
19:52 < tpanarch1st> too*
19:52 < tpanarch1st> ideally i'd like to delete something in that directory
19:52 < tpanarch1st> in fact, they can all go
19:52 < tpanarch1st> in that directory
19:53 < hexnewbie> tpanarch1st: Run ‘ls’, then ‘rm "full filename of the backup goes here"’. When you delete one or two, perhaps tab will start working.
19:54 < revel> absurdistani: I just found out about that one yesterday. What's the difference, exactly? The manpage seems to be quite, err, sparse.
19:54 < revel> Between unlink and sparse.
19:54 < revel> s/sparse/rm/
19:55 < sirwilliam> I+fGdv14LEr1XfdFGl135CLraWBLPIGG7YJcc1xZdTcQa45SRwuQle8g+T4qkwnk
19:55 < tpanarch1st> hexnewbie and jack_rabbit thanks guys
19:55 < tpanarch1st> absurdistani: thank you to!
19:55 < revel> Oh, wait, man 2 unlink might've given me the answer.
19:55 < tpanarch1st> Psi-Jack: i came across you before - thanks again for coming to my rescue
19:55 < TsuzukiMusashi> fafC4FGrCCQefpTHzsXwVP1Ml7T309WQB1FjedMqNOI6Ywz5FgMLtVEFUghDtoQqnfVp3w
19:55 < revel> "If the name was the last link to a file but any processes still have the file open, the file will remain in existence until the last file descriptor referring to it is closed."
19:55 < Psi-Jack> tpanarch1st: What? hehe
19:56 < tpanarch1st> Psi-Jack: you'd gone the extra mile for me before - i can't remember what it was but i put you on "/notify"
19:56 < Psi-Jack> heh, ahhhh
19:56 < tpanarch1st> i only put good people on there!
19:56 < tpanarch1st> but thank you all :)
19:56 < Psi-Jack> Well.. Thanks. heh.
19:56 < tpanarch1st> bit of a dozy thing for me to do!
19:57 < tpanarch1st> i've got a test environment (aka a smaller hard disk than usual spare) for a new proxmox system
19:57 < tpanarch1st> and i'm dyslexic (maths is particularly badly affected - dyscalculia)
19:57 < solidfox> hexnewbie, I'm having trouble getting it set up
19:57 < Psi-Jack> tpanarch1st: I just recently re-did my website, and I'm curious if you have any topics you'd be interested in seeing there, or improvements to anything there, if you're inetrested?
19:58 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: That's what she said?
19:58 < tpanarch1st> Psi-Jack: can you ping me a pm and I will take a look at this as i'm about to go out the door, then I can spend some decent time looking through for you :)
19:59 < Psi-Jack> tpanarch1st: Sounds good.
19:59 < tpanarch1st> Psi-Jack: do you do eggdrop stuff?
19:59 < Psi-Jack> tpanarch1st: I do not, no.
19:59 < tpanarch1st> Psi-Jack: ah, it wasn't that you helped me with then!
20:00 < Psi-Jack> tpanarch1st: Heh, I do have logs. I could always find out. :)
20:00 < tpanarch1st> yeah i'd be interested :)
20:00  * Psi-Jack has ##linux logs dating back to the mid 2000's?
20:01 < noway96> guys how do I debug this bug
20:02 < noway96> I'm using Qt webkit as a browser which takes over an x11 session on boot
20:02 < noway96> the browser runs fine for a while, but eventually segfaults
20:02 < eskamlu> have you tried a different browser?
20:03 < noway96> which different browser do you suggest?
20:03 < tpanarch1st> wow Psi-Jack jees, i don't know how you organise them all :)
20:03 < tpanarch1st> thanks **everyone**
20:03 < Psi-Jack> noway96: First, you start by not thinking ENTER is punctuation or pauses in thought. Then think about the issue, describe what problem you are having, what you have done, what errors you are getting, and important environmental situations relating to it.
20:03 < tpanarch1st> crisis averted!
20:03 < eskamlu> whichever, noway96 -- firefox, lynx, chromium, or the such
20:04 < eskamlu> noway96: on kiosks i manage, i run a modified firefox browser on x11
20:04 < noway96> it's just minimal browser that's really a UI
20:04 < noway96> but UI written in HTML,CSS,etc
20:04 < eskamlu> right, you can accomplish this with most browsers
20:04 < sjattah> just out of curiousity: what's the deal with double "#" in channel names?
20:05 < eskamlu> non-official is ##
20:05 < Isky> Usually means "unofficial"
20:05 < sjattah> ah
20:05 < noway96> Psi-Jack, didn't think it mattered
20:05 < Psi-Jack> noway96: You didn't think being clear and concise mattered?
20:06 < noway96> Psi-Jack. ok, fair enough
20:06 < Psi-Jack> heh\
20:10 < noway96> Psi-Jack, The software is a Yocto image booted from USB onto a client. The image doesn't get saved onto any harddrive so it's just a temporary boot and a reboot will lose everything. The image loads QtWebKit as a browser which takes over an x11 session. The browser gets its UI from static pages server by a tiny server on board. Anyway, everything works fine for a while. But if you run the thing for a couple of hours the
20:10 < __Myst__> Hi. I'm a linux user and hobbyst programmer, and sometimes my programs end up leaking a massive amount of memory. In this case, I'd expect Linux to kill my program once it started to utilize a lot of my computer's memory, however what actually happens is that my computer freezes and I cannot do anything to fix it short of hard-rebooting the entire machine. Why is this the case and what can I do to improve the
20:10 < noway96> browser will segfault. dmesg says https://pastebin.com/MzVHRVPM. gdb on coredump says https://pastebin.com/LrQQHyEp
20:10 < __Myst__> situation?
20:11 < solidfox> I'm thinking maybe ubuntu's kernel doesn't support framebugger
20:11 < __Myst__> (that was strangely synchronized)
20:11 < solidfox> framebuffer
20:11 < Isky> It should.
20:11 < Isky> It should support framebuffer.
20:11 < solidfox> well I can't figure out how to enable fb0 or use fbdev
20:11 < Isky> Linux won't kill a process unless you tell it to.
20:12 < Psi-Jack> Oh, Yocto.
20:12 < spkd> or you OOM
20:13 < Isky> solidfox: it took me less than 2 minutes on google to find an answer. I suggest you try that, first.
20:13 < solidfox> Isky, did you try it though?
20:13 < Isky> I didn't do anything to my machine, because my framebuffer is working fine.
20:14 < solidfox> ok fair enough
20:14 < solidfox> Isky, are you using ubuntu?
20:14 < Isky> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=124036&highlight=framebuffer
20:14 < Isky> btw
20:15 < daveslashknoll> There is no battery detected. There are no forums with the solution.  I've edited grub to force acpi and I have nothing listed in  proc/acpi/battery or /sys/class/power_supply. I have reinstalled with  different distributions, releases, desktop environments, all with no  success.
20:15 < Isky> solidfox: it doesn't just apply to a better resolution.. without the vga= appended in grub, you don't get fb at all.
20:15 < azizLIGHT> can xclock do countdown timer
20:15 < azizLIGHT> i cant see it in the manual
20:15 < daveslashknoll> any ideas?
20:15 < azizLIGHT> is there a good equivalent if no?
20:18 < solidfox> I am spoiled by gentoo docs
20:18 < solidfox> they are so amazing that it's almost unreal
20:19 < sauvin> azizLIGHT, not familiar with xclock. What are you trying to do?
20:19 < phogg> azizLIGHT: checked the man page?
20:19 < solidfox> this page says to edit a file that doesn't exist https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ConsoleFramebuffer
20:20 < azizLIGHT> sauvin: i am trying to give a date/time and get a accurate countdown
20:20 < solidfox> it looks like they never updated it since ubunt 8.10
20:20 < solidfox> lol
20:20 < azizLIGHT> phogg: yep
20:21 < solidfox> Isky, same problem for your link, that file is outdated and unused
20:21 < Isky> solidfox: I just updated the grub line with vga=xxxx and it worked.
20:21 < solidfox> a four digit number?
20:22 < phogg> azizLIGHT: I'm pretty sure xclock, and clocks in general, do not support counting down to a timestamp. Off the top of my head I don't know any local program that does.
20:22 < solidfox> I have mine set to vga=874 is that invalid?
20:22 < Isky> solidfox: follow the link for that part. Yours could be 874.
20:22 < Isky> solidfox: mine supports a different resolution
20:22 < aaa_> can i have a cloack
20:23 < aaa_> psi-jack
20:24 < azizLIGHT> phogg: i made a script in bash which does it and outputs my timers.... but it gets inaccurate over time
20:24 < azizLIGHT> within hours i am off by seconds already
20:24 < azizLIGHT> need more accuracy than that... gimme like days to lose/gain seconds then im fine wit that
20:24 < sauvin> aaa_, don't ask for cloaks in this channel. Ask in #freenode.
20:25 < aaa_> ah ok
20:26 < sauvin> I'm not finding any countdown timers. How are you writing your scripts?
20:27 < daveslashknoll> any hardware/driver experts present?
20:27 < sauvin> Expert: spurt of water under pressure.
20:27 < ayecee> one way to find out is to ask a hardware/driver question that only an expert could answer
20:27 < daveslashknoll> maybe it wasn't seen
20:28 < phogg> azizLIGHT: there are scripts that do this accurately, or writing one is not hard (but don't use shell script when timing is important)
20:28 < sauvin> If you're looking to have something *happen* at a given time, investigate 'at'
20:29 < solidfox> mplayer is still saying fbdev is not found
20:29 < solidfox> as well as mpv
20:29 < za1b1tsu> Hello, what DE works great with i3, i3gaps?
20:30 < solidfox> ubunut docs are outdated. and therefor, ubunut is outdated
20:31 < Isky> solidfox: maybe the fb module isn't running for the kernel? I think it's vesafb (at least, that's the generic one) .. sudo modprobe vesafb
20:32 < nems2k> Hey guys - completely new to Linux and installed Debian the other night and got wine working.  Went down the rabbit hole of linux becuase I've got 3 servers I want to cluster.  Any good resources you could recommend?...I did learn after pounding my head against the desk that commands in capital / lowercase matter
20:32 < Isky> a hardware specific one is better, but that should work.
20:32 < TJ-> solidfox: you'd edit /etc/defaut/grub to add kernel command-line options in the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX= variable, then do "sudo update-grub" to have the new /boot/grub/grub.cfg generated
20:32 < solidfox> TJ-, I know that.
20:32 < solidfox> Isky, vesafb isn't found. but uvesafb is
20:32 < Isky> solidfox: it could be uvesafb in your version
20:32  * Isky nods. 
20:33 < azizLIGHT> sauvin: i used bash and then greycat told me im an idiot so i am trying something else
20:33 < AnAverageHuman> nems2k: How do you want to cluster them?
20:33 < TJ-> solidfox: if you're on Ubuntu vesafb is built-in, uvesafb is a module
20:33 < sauvin> Dunno about "idiot", but bash isn't what I'd use. Say more clearly why you want countdown timers.
20:34 < JeffATL> i have a regular user foo in group bar. /etc/security/limits.conf has the line "@bar        hard    nice            -15" yet when foo logs in and tries "renice -1 -p <pid>" he gets "renice: failed to set priority for <pid> (process ID): Permission denied"
20:34 < azizLIGHT> phogg: well, could you tell me some of those scripts? would appreciate it thanks
20:34 < nems2k> AnAverageHuman:  Unsure at this time, was looking as a master that distributes the workload of things like BOINC / PLEX / ANSYS.  So if it was a master node that made use of the Processors and Storage in the slaves that would be good.  If it has to do something like Beowulf I could get behind that
20:35 < nems2k> I've got 5 xeons, 45TB of storage and about 128GB ram between the 3 servers
20:35 < eskamlu> nems2k: use the tab to auto complete :)
20:35 < phogg> azizLIGHT: I've seen them before but can't find one now. It's not so easy to google for.
20:35 < AnAverageHuman> nems2k: Do you know what the end result will be? If you're not opposed to writing your own code you can look into OpenMPI or MPICH2.
20:36 < solidfox> Isky, look at this https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/33606
20:36 < azizLIGHT> phogg: i see. are they written in some particular language
20:36 < solidfox> Isky, it seems that this vga thing is depracated
20:36 < AnAverageHuman> nems2k: If you want to compile things faster you can look into distcc, for example.
20:37 < solidfox> Isky, are you able to play videos in console?
20:37 < solidfox> Isky, that's what I'm trying to do
20:37 < sauvin> azizLIGHT, say more clearly why you want countdown timers.
20:37 < nems2k> AnAverageHuman:  At this time writing my own code or custom kernal would go beyond my knowledge of what I'm looking at this time.  I'm comfy w/ the terminal.  If I were starting with some other Open Source style projects and then getting them to play nice with scripts or something that would be cool
20:38 < solidfox> hwinfo --framebuffer gives me nothing
20:38 < phogg> azizLIGHT: here's a perl script which is similar to what you want: http://www.perlmonks.org/bare/?node_id=407922 all you need to do is change the source of $end_time to be based on a date you specify instead of an offset from now.
20:39 < nems2k> AnAverageHuman: end result would ideally be one server I manage with some VM's for personal stuff.  Host pushes work as needed to slaves
20:39 < AnAverageHuman> nems2k: But what exactly do you want to accomplish with this setup? You can easily run stuff in parallel on these machines, but having the programs be aware of each other and communicating will be harder.
20:40 < TJ-> solidfox: any fb nodes under  /sys/class/graphics/  ?
20:40 < AnAverageHuman> nems2k: What kind of "work"? Compilation work, computational work, etc.
20:40 < nems2k> AnAverageHuman: Not familiar with Parrallel - explain?.  BOINC work units / PLEX video transcodes / ANSYS Mechanical Engineering Element Analysis
20:41 < azizLIGHT> sauvin: when daytrading, there are certain intervals that close and a new candle is painted. for instance, an hourly interval, or one that is every 4 hours, or one that is daily, or even some that are every 3 days or every week. i want always-visible timers on my desktop that when they start getting close to that time to fire off commands
20:41 < solidfox> TJ-, /sys/class/graphics/fb0 directory exists
20:41 < azizLIGHT> sauvin: and also just for me to glance at and see accurate countdown
20:42 < solidfox> TJ-, and fbcon
20:43 < TJ-> solidfox: so there is a framebuffer, you can get some more info about what device it is attached to and it's config with "ls -l /sys/class/graphics/fb0/"  ---  ./device  will point to the PCI device which would then lead to identifying the driver
20:44 < TJ-> solidfox: also, "sudo fbset -s" should report basics
20:44 < sauvin> OK, think I'd approach that in two prongs. Firing off the commands at given times is easy, just use the 'at' command. Dunno how to display your countdowns, but if you're wanting something bash-able or near-bashable, I think I'd try using the 'date' command with some arithmetic.
20:44 < phogg> azizLIGHT: here's a modified version of that perl script which takes a date time arg http://termbin.com/fwuv
20:45 < TJ-> solidfox: "fbset -i" might be more helpful
20:45 < AnAverageHuman> nems2k: Research online shows that BOINC will take care of it for you if you log on as the same user on all the machines.
20:45 < azizLIGHT> phogg: thanks
20:46 < phogg> azizLIGHT: is a terminal version sufficient or did you need something that made its own X window?
20:46 < solidfox> TJ-, seems to be vboxdrmfb
20:46 < nems2k> AnAverageHuman: Heh that's what I'm trying to avoid.  Is it even possible for 1 server (the main one) to see and use the processors from the other 2 as if it were in the same host box?
20:46 < azizLIGHT> terminal is fine. the bash version i have i run in terminal in a while loop and just make it always on top
20:46 < azizLIGHT> phogg: ^^
20:47 < TJ-> solidfox: so being virtualised ... maybe that's part of your issue
20:47 < zapotah> nems2k: there is no such bus in existence
20:48 < D437> I want to find number of lines in a file across all directories and subdirectories, so I did: wc -l `find /path/to/directory/ -type f`, but how can I ask it to ignore .pyc files?
20:48 < zapotah> nems2k: applications using RDMA is as close as it gets for low-level resource sharing and even then you need the application to be distributed and designed for it
20:48 < AnAverageHuman> nems2k: I'm not too sure about that. There might be something like that, but I'd guess that it would require special hardware.
20:49 < nems2k> ! Ok so that clears up one of my hopes or attempted goals.  Then it comes down to a typical server install with some VM's and programs installed
20:49 < zapotah> and hardware that does rdma over whatever medium
20:49 < AnAverageHuman> nems2k: For a single program, your best bet would probably be to check if it supports MPI or some other distribution system.
20:49 < spkd> D437: ! -name '*.pyc'
20:49 < spkd> in your find...
20:50 < AnAverageHuman> nems2k: It looks like someone is working on distributed Plex encodes: https://github.com/evreichard/PlexLoadBalancer
20:50 < D437> spkd: Aaah, that was supposed to go inside the find, ok, I was putting at the end of the entire command, gotcha! Thanks!
20:51 < avis> you can add maxcpus to your grub line.  i am a little caution, and nice to myself, because i know my video and cpu have hidden could be unlocked linux cores depending on kernel. i feel ok with 30.  if you look at xeon phi if its compatible with linux, maybe, that might be the larger possible big number of ultimate setting that one
20:51 < nems2k> AnAverageHuman: oooo Thank you.  I think I need to spend more time around github, seems to be the place for small things like I might be looking for
20:51 < zapotah> AnAverageHuman: that is a highly convoluted mechanism for something that should be implemented at the codec layer level
20:51 < spkd> D437: np
20:52 < zapotah> there _are_ distributed rendering systems already that can most certainly be used for, ie. ffmpeg, or such
20:53 < AnAverageHuman> zapotah: Ooh, you can distribute ffmpeg jobs?
20:53 < zapotah> AnAverageHuman: not with ffmpeg alone, but there are obviously distributed encoding systems
20:53 < zapotah> im fairly sure i saw a hadoop implementation of some such shit
20:53 < AnAverageHuman> That's very neat.
20:54 < Psi-Jack> zapotah: Some fecal matter? Kindly mind the language, please? ;)\
20:54 < solidfox> tct is a little better than caca
20:55 < kritterr>  Installed Kali to a USB stick - not live, but as a drive - and initramfs keeps trying to boot /dev/sdd1 instead of /dev/sda1, which is where my root partition is. How do I fix it?
20:55 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: im not feeling "at-home" unless i fling some poop around
20:55 < kritterr> same
20:56 < zapotah> but its been a very long day stracing fortibs and fixing their flavor of poop
20:56 < eskamlu> why is poop being discussed?
20:56 < sauvin> because poop has immense value as a metaphor.
20:56 < zapotah> eskamlu: because that is what most of fortinets offering is
20:57 < kritterr> anyway to get it to boot?
20:57 < zapotah> but i do credit the accelops team for making their software actually sane linux-wise
20:57 < zapotah> unlike so many other "enterprise" grade softwares
20:58 < zapotah> i was actually able to fix it
21:01 < bls> kritterr: ask the kali channel
21:01 < vasili111> Hi! Anyone from China or who knows Chinese language?
21:02 < Dagmar> Only a few million people, but none of them are here right now
21:03 < bls> vasili111: ask the channel list bot instead of us: /msg alis list -cn or /msg alis list -zh
21:11 < laggger164> Has anyone here tried btrfs? Why do people dislike it so much as being unstable?
21:11 < Dagmar> The main problem is that most of the people using it are pretty incoherent
21:11 < Dagmar> Like, it's clear they weren't really qualified to make that decision in the first place, so it's sheer luck they haven't destroyed all their files
21:12 < Dagmar> This makes btrfs look bad.
21:12 < Dagmar> It's otherwise perfectly acceptable--it's just different.
21:12 < laggger164> Dagmar: I only tried ZFS on my Proxmox server and I love it, but since I am stupid AF, I can't really use it properly.
21:13 < laggger164> I don't know the commands, how to work with it, pretty much nothing other than the basic setup
21:13 < koala_man> btrfs once ate my files because mirroring didn't work when one disk was missing
21:13 < laggger164> I don't assume that Btrfs is much better in that way, or is it?
21:13 < Dagmar> Ya might wanna bone up on it a little if you're going to start adding moar disks
21:14 < Dagmar> These are precisely the bits of functionality one shouldn't just guess at
21:14 < laggger164> Dagmar: "Bone up" ?
21:14 < jwitko> Hey All, I'm having trouble getting my AWS EC2 CentOS 6.9 instance to use the Enhanced Network (ENA) driver on my eth0 network interface.  I have installed the driver, used dracut to load it into the kernel.  lsmod and modinfo both show a valid ENA module.  But the system is still loading the "vif" driver for eth0.
21:14 < koala_man> but I've now used it for years with no problem, but also just with a single device
21:14 < Dagmar> It's an idiom for "read moar about"
21:14 < jwitko> I've attempted to blacklist vif and I've added persistence to the ENA module
21:14 < laggger164> Dagmar: Thanks!
21:14  * CompanionCube has a preference for ZFS but btrfs is (mostly) perfectly fine.,
21:14 < LjL> Dagmar, so you're saying a filesystem that was made to be a generic, all-purpose filesystem will destroy your files unless you make a motivated, conscious decision to use it specifically
21:15 < Dagmar> jwitko: if you don't need that driver for anything else, just blacklist it
21:15 < jwitko> Can anyone assist me?  Here is a paste bin showing relevant output:  http://paste.openstack.org/raw/718420/
21:15 < jwitko> Dagmar, I did blacklist it!
21:15 < jwitko> it still loads for the network interface!   please see http://paste.openstack.org/raw/718420/
21:16 < Dagmar> LjL: No, I'm saying a filesystem, any filesystem, is likely to screw you over when you willfully expose it to failure states like "disks missing from mirrored configuration" without knowing what it's supposed to do
21:16 < Dagmar> Any more dumb questions?
21:16 < LjL> actually you weren't saying that
21:16 < laggger164> Yeah, I don't really know what blacklisting does to be honest. I blacklisted my GPU in GRUB and even the driver manager can see it and wants to install a driver for it
21:16 < LjL> you were saying pretty much what i said
21:16 < LjL> so i don't know about dumb questions, but some about dumb answers
21:17 < Dagmar> jwitko: Looks like you didn't unload it after blacklisting it.  Last time I checked modinfo will still report information about modules that have been blacklisted, but modprobe/kmod will simply refuse to load them (as expected)
21:18 < Dagmar> LjL: Perhaps this concept has evaded you, but it's generally considered bad form to expect things to work properly under degraded/interrupted service conditions
21:18 < jwitko> Dagmar, I'm sorry but I'm confused.  I blacklisted it and then restarted the server.  Upon reboot the "vif" module is not found and is not loaded, but it is still being taken by the network interface as a driver.  Did I miss something?   The ENA module shows as loaded and looks fine to me?  I am wanting to use the ENA module and not the vif
21:18 < laggger164> LjL: I don't think so, Dagmar was saying that you should know what you're doing if you're doing something the FS wasn't prepared for. Like the mirroring for example.
21:18 < Dagmar> If someone's going to use a "fancy" filesystem, they should probably read up on specifically what features it provides and how, else they learn the hard way that some filesystems can be demolished pretty handily by doing things that other filesystems are totally okay with
21:19 < Dagmar> jwitko: Only thing remaining that I can think of is it was built into the core kernel itself, which, considering this is probably an AWS-specific build, isn't a terribly unreasonable thing to do
21:19 < laggger164> Dagmar: Oh, actually, how would I go about learning a filesystem properly? The official documentation?
21:19 < koala_man> btrfs in raid1 is supposed to survive disk failures, but it didn't at the time. probably a simple issue, but there was no btrfsck
21:20 < laggger164> koala_man: It's possible that is wasn't set up correctly.
21:20 < Dagmar> laggger164: Generally, yeah.  ZFS and BTRFS both have howtos that explain how to use the more advanced features
21:20 < Dagmar> Even mdadm will f**k you if you try to build an array the wrong way 'round
21:20 < jwitko> Dagmar, so in the case that it was built into the kernel itself, is there any way to make the system utilize the ENA module?
21:20 < laggger164> Dagmar: I really love the on the fly compression both of them offer.
21:21 < CompanionCube>  compression <3
21:21 < jwitko> I know others have the ENA module working on CentOS6, I've followed a bunch of different instruction sets from googling but none of them are working
21:22 < koala_man> laggger164: it's also possible that there was a reason why it wasn't recommended for production use at the time
21:22 < CompanionCube> even LZ4 gives my root filesystem a 2x compression ratio
21:22 < laggger164> CompanionCube: Yeah, one thing I miss in pretty much every FS ever.
21:22 < Dagmar> jwitko: There _should_ be but I can't remember how to bind an interface to a specific driver off the top of my head right now.  there *may* be kernel module options (that will still apply when passed as kernel parameters) that you can use to make vif stay off that interface
21:22 < Dagmar> jwitko: but check /proc/config.gz or whatever it takes to be sure it's built into the kernel before you proceed further.
21:22 < laggger164> koala_man: I am pretty sure Synology (or one of those NAS manufacturers) use BtrFS by default
21:23 < CompanionCube> (and that's *without* the snapshots being useful. I once rolled back the root filesystem because apparently that works online.)
21:23 < laggger164> And I am also pretty sure that they wouldn't use it if they thought it wasn't stable
21:23 < mawk> Dagmar: it's with sysfs
21:23 < laggger164> Aaaand I don't see many people complaining that their Synology NAS derped and they lost their data.
21:23 < mawk> you write the PCI path or something inside the "bind" file inside the driver folder
21:23 < mawk> but unbind it first from the old driver
21:24 < mawk> but all of that is done by udev, normally
21:24 < mawk> I did that uncountable times when making a driver for some usb gadget
21:24 < koala_man> laggger164: weird. it's almost as if things change over time
21:25 < laggger164> CompanionCube: Oh, I forgot about snapshots!
21:25 < laggger164> koala_man: Some things don't, I still see people complaining about BtrFS on forums and stuff
21:25 < laggger164> Even these days
21:26 < laggger164> So either Synology knows their sh*t or people don't... or both
21:26 < koala_man> btrfs ate my files in ~2010 or so, the fs was marked on-disk stable in 2014, and synology's using it now in 2018
21:26 < laggger164> koala_man: Pretty sure they were using it for a lot longer than 4 months
21:27 < noway96> Maybe what I should do everytime the browser connected to my X11 session segfaults is to simply restart the X11 session? the
21:27 < Psi-Jack> Heh.
21:27 < Minnebo> Hi peepz
21:27 < Psi-Jack> I won't use btrfs, not even on my Synology.
21:28 < Minnebo> Psi-Jack, why not? :p
21:28 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: Call us marshmellowed candies again! I DARE you!
21:28 < laggger164> Psi-Jack: Don't like it?
21:28 < laggger164> I just wanna try it sometime
21:28 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: It's unreliable, everyone's dropping support for it, save for the last remaining SUSE devs still working on it.
21:28 < laggger164> Maybe on something I don't care about, like a Steam library
21:29 < Minnebo> Anyway, i'm running a VPS and I want to write a bash script to run drush in all my dirs, Ive been testing and I found this so far :) Can I run multiple commands after each other?
21:29 < Minnebo> for i in /home/*/public_html/; do echo "$i"; done;
21:29 < laggger164> Psi-Jack: Really? They're dropping support?
21:29 < Minnebo> Psi-Jack, good to know, I have a few Synology's running BTRFS
21:29 < Psi-Jack> laggger164: Red Hat's dropped support officially for btrfs.
21:29 < CompanionCube> but no-one else
21:29 < laggger164> Linux should still support it
21:29 < CompanionCube> Red Hat seems like they're doing they're own thing with XFS and Stratis
21:30 < laggger164> The new Linux kernel actually claimed improvements for it
21:30 < Psi-Jack> CompanionCube: Nobody else really /supported/ it to begin with. :)
21:30 < Psi-Jack> And yeah, Red Hat Software has most of the filesystem devs. XFS devs, Stratis devs, GlusterFS devs, Ceph devs, etc.
21:31 < Psi-Jack> I mean, really. For RHS to drop btrfs support, is bold and telling. :)
21:31 < laggger164> Psi-Jack: So if somebody requires the features BtrFS offers, what do they use? Aside from ZFS
21:31 < Lulunar> Does anyone know where dev_notice is implemented?
21:31 < Psi-Jack> laggger164: nobody /requires/ the "features" btrfs provides.
21:32 < laggger164> Psi-Jack: Bit rot protection and snapshots look like a requirement to me...
21:32 < Psi-Jack> You get that with any other filesystem.
21:32 < bls> BTRFS snapshots trashed a couple of my drives. haven't bothered with it since
21:32 < laggger164> Psi-Jack: Wut? Really?
21:32 < Psi-Jack> Uhh, really.
21:33 < spammcoin> Lulunar: does anyone know what dev_notice is?
21:33 < laggger164> Psi-Jack: Those are the biggest selling points of both BtrFS and ZFS, does a FS like ext4 have bitrot protection?
21:33 < laggger164> Or is it just more extensive in ZFS?
21:35 < Psi-Jack> laggger164: First you have to ask yourself this: What is "bitrot protection?"
21:35 < laggger164> Psi-Jack: Welp, something useful for my stupid head.
21:35 < bls> that and claiming a feature and having it work dependably are different things
21:35 < Psi-Jack> And second. If it's even clearly defined. Does it even work? Because BtrFS snapshots doesn't even work reliably.
21:35 < Psi-Jack> ^
21:36 < laggger164> bls: Good point
21:36 < noway96> wow, restarting my x11-session actually did the trick
21:38 < bls> I don't have any alternatives for those features baked into a FS outside commercial solutions, so just make use of other things at different layers
21:38 < Psi-Jack> bls: Like, proper backups. LVM snapshots, or other ways to get snapshots. :)
21:39 < be2pal> Its not meant to use rsync with sftp, right
21:39 < laggger164> Psi-Jack: This is interesting: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14907771
21:39 < bls> be2pal: no, rsync operates over an ssh data channel
21:40 < bls> laggger164: yeah, that was where I first learned about bcachefs
21:41 < be2pal> bls: thanks
21:47 < Psi-Jack> laggger164: TL;DR
21:47 < Psi-Jack> heh
21:49 < Psi-Jack> laggger164: What pisses me off even more. SUSE devs claim it's rock solid. Proof says otherwise. And they refuse to accept valid proof. heh
21:51 < Psi-Jack> And the stories about Fedora trying to use btrfs as the default, is true. And every time they backed out at the last minute, because it just wasn't found to be reliable enough for everyday use.
21:51 < Psi-Jack> I've used btrfs on opensuse. It's corrupted itself and snapshots completely failed.
21:52 < Psi-Jack> It has*
21:52 < peetaur> Psi-Jack: did it corrupt itself with single disk usage?
21:52 < Psi-Jack> yep.
21:52 < Minnebo> hi
21:52 < Minnebo> :<
21:53 < peetaur> I haven't had any corruption since kernel 3.14 or so
21:53 < Minnebo> exec 2>1 will that work for any command?
21:54 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: Ask better questions.
21:54 < peetaur> (but I didn't have any btrfs on root since kernel 3.9 or so where it still didn't corrupt itself clearly....worked fine, fsck found no problems, but a new kernel or something wouldn't work...had to mkfs and then the new kernel worked)
21:54 < Psi-Jack> peetaur: I found my corruptions due to backups, quicker than anything. :)
21:54 < peetaur> I find his question quite clear, but I'm not sure of the answer....but I think yes.
21:54 < Minnebo> Psi-Jack, https://paste.ee/p/rLI0u
21:55 < CashDash123> good god ed is painful
21:55 < Psi-Jack> peetaur: Well, exec alone does nothing. :0
21:55 < Minnebo> I'm new to bash, will everything I do in my loop, be logged?
21:55 < peetaur> problematic commands to test with exec 2>1 are strace and time (time is a builtin, or can be an executable)
21:55 < peetaur> like  time echo hi > /dev/null 2>&1  will still print the time
21:55 < spammcoin> CashDash123: try ex with visual mode
21:55 < Minnebo> peetaur, I think you just answered my question
21:55 < Minnebo> ^^
21:56 < CashDash123> to exit type q by the way
21:56 < peetaur> Minnebo: and I think maybe you want  exec 2>&1
21:56 < peetaur> yours will make a file named 1 and print no err on console, and mine will redirect all future err to out
21:57 < Minnebo> peetaur, that is in my script no? 2>&1
21:57 < Minnebo> https://paste.ee/p/rLI0u
21:57 < Minnebo> there :D
21:57 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: case would be so much better than if..if..if..if...
21:57 < Psi-Jack> Also [[, not [
21:58 < Minnebo> Psi-Jack, k will check syntax for case
21:58 < Psi-Jack> ALL_CAPS varnames = bad, too. ALL_CAPS are reserved for internal variables, like HOME, MAIL, etc.
21:58 < bls> Minnebo: also, run that through shellcheck.net
21:59 < Psi-Jack> Also, quote all variables being used. tee -i "$log_location"/drush.log
21:59 < Minnebo> thx
21:59 < Psi-Jack> thx is not a word.
21:59 < peetaur> some teach that constants should be all caps
21:59 < Minnebo> basicly it is; https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thx ~ thanks, used in e-mail, on message boards, and chat rooms online
22:00 < Minnebo> :D
22:00 < Sitri> It's not an english word, use proper english here
22:00 < Psi-Jack> peetaur: They are wrong, in bash syntax.
22:00 < Psi-Jack> Sitri: Wrong, actually.
22:00 < Psi-Jack> Oh, sorry, mis-read that.
22:00 < Minnebo> You mean English word Sitri ? : )
22:01 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: ##linux does have rules. And yes, it matters here.
22:01 < Minnebo> anyway, back to the drawing board, thanks for all the good feedback
22:01 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: Also... Get away from Drupal. Switch to Grav.
22:01 < Psi-Jack> :)
22:02 < Minnebo> Psi-Jack, believe it or not, I'm looking at get-grav for over a year, but I haven't installed it yet :(
22:02 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: Install it, seriously.
22:02 < Psi-Jack> In 10 minutes or less you will see how it's so much easier, better, and faster than Drupal. :)
22:02 < Minnebo> Will follow your advice : )
22:03 < Psi-Jack> I just switched my whole site to Grav from Drupal 6.
22:03 < Minnebo> migrated?
22:03 < Psi-Jack> Well, manually migrated. :)
22:03 < Minnebo> Well the fact that it is possible
22:03 < Minnebo> I'll look into it
22:04 < Psi-Jack> And, without any special tuning. It was faster than Drupal. ;)
22:04 < Minnebo> Drupal is slow as hell anyway
22:04 < Psi-Jack> it took me a hell of a lot of tuning to actually get Drupal to even perform fast enough to not be annoying.
22:04 < diogenese> a lot of layers
22:04 < Minnebo> I'm running a Tilaa VPS, they are damn fast servers, so my drupals fly too, but you pay extra for good performance offcourse
22:04 < morf> drupal is ok has good caching ... just give it memcache / configure correctly
22:04 < msiism> if a child process has been killed by its parent process because the latter has been terminated (e.g., when closing an x terminal emulator window while a command is still being executed inside of it), this will result in a non-zero exit status for the child process. now, is there a way to read that exit status afterwards?
22:04 < morf> it will be flying
22:05 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: I managed to get Drupal down to < 0.5s/page, but grav is ~0.2s/page
22:05 < Minnebo> nice
22:05 < morf> ha
22:05 < Minnebo> the better the speed, the more websites I can put on a hosting :p
22:05 < morf> it can do ~50ms easy if you don't frack up caching (cache blocking stuff on page)
22:05 < morf> (well not whole page... the main request)
22:06 < Sonolin> I always thought flat file was a good way to do CMS, I mean you can technically even just "export" a DB to flat file format and retain all Admin functionality
22:06 < morf> yet ppl still using wordpress for everything and it's worst kind of poop
22:06 < sauvin> Morf, watch your motherfracking language!
22:06 < morf> )
22:06 < sauvin> ;)
22:07  * absurdistani suspects that morf is a fracking toaster
22:11 < Psi-Jack> I mean, heck, I even considered wordpress. Except that every time I'd tried it in the fast it just never felt right for my use case.
22:11 < dreamscape> Hello all can anyone recommend a lightweight Linux distro for an old Intel Atom 230 / 2GB RAM / 500GB SSHD thin client? Ubuntu MATE is really slow on it and I'd like to speed it up a bit.
22:11 < Psi-Jack> Drupal didn't either, but I could mold Drupal to my use case.
22:11 < absurdistani> dreamscape: slitaz
22:11 < Psi-Jack> Drawde: *
22:11 < Psi-Jack> dreamscape: *
22:12 < dreamscape> thank you
22:12 < Psi-Jack> If Ubuntu Mate is slow, anything will be slow.
22:12 < Psi-Jack> Distro != speed.
22:13 < revel> Get one with flame decals and go-fast stripes.
22:13 < eskamlu> LXDE and Xubuntu are "lighter" than MATE.
22:13 < revel> I think you meant xfce, not xubuntu.
22:14 < Psi-Jack> heh
22:14 < eskamlu> yes, thinking of Ubuntu distros
22:14 < marquezini> what are the lighest linux distro with a good stability, resource, and compatibility
22:14 < marquezini> i think lubuntu
22:14 < msiism> dreamscape: you could stay with ubuntu and just swap out the desktop environment.
22:14 < marquezini> or xubuntu on best pc
22:14 < Psi-Jack> marquezini: *
22:14 < revel> Lubuntu and Xubuntu then.
22:14 < eskamlu> minimal Debian meets my desktop needs on old tech
22:14 < revel> How minimal?
22:15 < Psi-Jack> marquezini: Again: Distro != speed
22:15 < eskamlu> no default desktop
22:15 < marquezini> a minimal installation of a debian with some minor desktop version, what a good choose?
22:15 < revel> Yeah, but you still get one, don't you?
22:15 < eskamlu> at the checkmark section, select basic util
22:15 < msiism> Psi-Jack: can you explain that?
22:15 < marquezini> for a 128 ram 1ghz processor
22:15 < Psi-Jack> msiism: What's to explain?
22:15 < Drawde> If you're going that light, you could use Apline
22:15 < revel> marquezini: A whole 128 bytes? :O
22:15 < msiism> Psi-Jack: distro != speed.
22:15 < marquezini> mega
22:16 < Psi-Jack> msiism: That's correct.
22:16 < msiism> Psi-Jack: why?
22:16 < marquezini> distro isnt equal speed, when need computation all distro is equal
22:16 < Psi-Jack> msiism: What is a distribution of Linux?
22:16 < msiism> Psi-Jack: linux kernel + shell + utilitues and libraries + package manager?
22:16 < ayecee> a tribe from which you derive your identity
22:16 < diogenese> same software packaged by different people
22:16 < revel> Psi-Jack: A kernel sources mirror?
22:16 < marquezini> but on low processing computer into paused state a lightweight linux uses low memory
22:16 < Psi-Jack> msiism: Linux (which is the kernel), software.
22:17 < Psi-Jack> msiism: Some distros come with a pre-canned arrangement of software, yet even still you can easily, through the package manager of that distro, remove the software you want and don't need. So, therefore, you can make any distro however you want do whatever you want. Therefore, distro != speed.
22:18 < marquezini> i know Psi-Jack
22:18 < marquezini> i can build the distro from source to compatibility with my cpu
22:18 < marquezini> to gain speed
22:18 < marquezini> i can do some hacks in swap
22:18 < msiism> Psi-Jack: ok, now i get you. you mean speed is not a question of a particular distro, right?
22:18 < Psi-Jack> If you think that'll even make a spit of difference, feel free.
22:19 < marquezini> i can use last tier to install the system apps, and boot image
22:19 < Psi-Jack> msiism: != Not Equal
22:19 < marquezini> i can install preload to cache apps
22:19 < marquezini> but
22:19 < marquezini> what the leightweight distro in processing and memory use
22:19 < marquezini> this is my question
22:20 < msiism> Psi-Jack: right.
22:20 < Psi-Jack> I saw no question.
22:20 < Psi-Jack> Only, enter.. Enter... Enter...
22:20 < eskamlu> lol
22:20 < ayecee> one way to highlight your question is to use a question mark
22:20 < Sitri> marquezini: LFS if you want to go full ricer there.
22:24 < Minnebo> I can't seem to figure out the case syntax in my example
22:24 < Psi-Jack> case "$dir" in
22:25 < Psi-Jack> "domain1")
22:25 < Psi-Jack> "domain 2)
22:25 < Psi-Jack> "domain3...") continue;
22:25 < dreamscape> msiism, really? I thought a single core Atom 1.6Ghz with HT, 2GB RAM and a SSHD would be able to run MATE but it seems it's slow... So I was going to look at other distro's. Will they really all be slow if MATE is slow?
22:25 < Psi-Jack> esac
22:25 < Psi-Jack> Oh, contine;;, not continue;
22:27 < Minnebo> Psi-Jack, ah so basicly the same as my if fi ^^
22:27 < Psi-Jack> But cleaner.
22:27 < Psi-Jack> Less redundant.
22:27 < msiism> dreamscape: well, the question is if it's really the whole desktop environment that is slow.
22:28 < marquezini> dreamscape, im running ubuntu 17.10 on n3700 p4 4gb notebook
22:28 < marquezini> low end
22:29 < msiism> dreamscape: i'm running Devuan with minimal openebox desktop on an intel core 2 duo @ 2,93 with 2GB RAM and there's nothing to complain about speed-wise, until you open, e.g., firefox.
22:29 < mawk> I like `(domain1) ...' more than `domain1) ...' for the case syntax
22:30 < gronke> I'm looking at this readme for Galaxy, specifically the fedora setup. I'm confused about the part where it says to configure it with 'chconfig galaxy on,' as the init file doesn't have that line anywhere. https://paste.pound-python.org/show/4KvMH8OcvWlw0S8hu44I/
22:30 < gronke> is that something that I put somewhere in the CentOS system or does it go in the init.d file?
22:30 < dreamscape> msiism, actually MATE itself is not bad. it's the browser, Chrome which makes CPU go max and everything goes slow... I'm going to try some lighter browsers as like you say MATE itself is fairly snappy
22:30 < Psi-Jack> gronke: init.d is deprecated, obsoleted by systemd.
22:31 < ananke> ohh god, galaxy. what a pile
22:31 < gronke> ananke, what do you use?
22:31 < msiism> dreamscape: radical solution: use w3m.
22:31 < gronke> ananke, I finally got my supervisor to drop Mobyle, which has been deprecated for like 8 years.
22:31 < ananke> gronke: our scientists typically make their own pipelines
22:31 < gronke> ananke, well ours ...don't :-/
22:31 < ananke> gronke: but we've had to do a few galaxy installs, and they were wretched
22:32 < dreamscape> Good call, thanks msiism
22:32 < gronke> ananke, seems to be going fine so far, I just need it to start on startup, which is where I'm stuck at right now
22:33 < msiism> dreamscape: well, there's also that browser called dooble. it's qt-based. i haven't had time to try it yet. but you could.
22:34 < gronke> It doesn't look like anyone's written a script that works with systemd
22:35 < dreamscape> I will check it out thanks. This machine is only a storage/download server so a text based browser sounds like a really good plan.
22:35 < Minnebo> works like a charl
22:35 < Minnebo> charm* Psi-Jack
22:35 < MrElendig> dreamscape: why have a browser on it at all?
22:36 < dreamscape> because I need to click links for download. I know i can use the command line for this but it's easier on a browser.
22:37 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: Question is, did you do it right? ;)
22:37 < MrElendig> what kind of links?
22:37 < Minnebo> sec ;p
22:37 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: Anytime I see bash code, like #bash, I know a LOT of the common issues people do, and critique the hell out of any bash code I see. :)
22:37 < MrElendig> you could set it up so that you click on the local machine, and it is automagically downloaded on the server
22:37 < gronke> ok well, *cracks knuckles* here goes writing a systemd script
22:38 < Psi-Jack> gronke: They're not scripts
22:38 < Psi-Jack> That's the beauty of it. :)
22:38 < Minnebo> https://paste.ee/p/LVPIx
22:38 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: You repeated continue. Don't need. Only the last one.
22:38 < MrElendig> gronke: systemd units are easy, but some software insist on doing really stupid things which makes them hard to sanely deal with
22:38 < Minnebo> Psi-Jack, every critique is welcome, that is how you learn
22:38 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: Need ;; before esac to close the *) match.
22:39 < Psi-Jack> ;; is the condition terminator in case conditions.
22:39 < MrElendig> Minnebo: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide
22:39 < Psi-Jack> Well, result terminator anyway. ;)
22:40 < Minnebo> for the CASE things, you I have one line with ( "dom1" | "dom2" ... ) ?
22:40 < Minnebo> or just remove the 4 contiunue things
22:41 < Psi-Jack> You could do it with |, or just "condition1")\n"condition2")\n"conditionX) do this; series of; commands;;
22:42 < Psi-Jack> The latter is usually more readable than a long list of piped conditions. :)
22:44 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: Like so: https://paste.linux-help.org/view/8065e3b6
22:45 < laggger164> So, right now, I have a Samba share set up on my server that I use mainly as a NAS. Would it be possible to set up NFS on the same files as the Samba share?
22:45 < Psi-Jack> Also, you should trap an error on cd "$dir", because simply returning, will stop execution.
22:45 < Psi-Jack> laggger164: Of course.
22:46 < Minnebo> Psi-Jack, and the ;; above esac?
22:46 < Minnebo> or did I get that part wrong
22:46 < Psi-Jack> Though depending on whether you want NFSv3 or NFSv4 (you want v4)
22:46 < Psi-Jack> Minnebo: I forgot the ;; ')
22:46 < Psi-Jack> https://paste.linux-help.org/view/cce946e9
22:47 < Psi-Jack> heh, dang, all the quotes got changed into &quote ;/
22:47 < gronke> hmm, my first attempt at a systemd service isn't working :(
22:47 < Psi-Jack> I think I got a bug report for stikked coming. :)
22:48 < Minnebo> gonna try running the script, but shellcheck gives errors on the case statements
22:48 < gronke> I put this in /etc/systemd/system/galaxy.service ... why isn't it running? https://paste.pound-python.org/show/7cD3vqNDXctbZ7Ohp7UP/
22:49 < MrElendig> gronke: sidenote: use systemctl edit (--full)
22:49 < MrElendig> and how is it not working?
22:49 < gronke> MrElendig, well the server isn't running
22:49 < msiism> Minnebo: didn't you forget ;; at the end of the *) case?
22:49 < Minnebo> wait
22:50 < MrElendig> did you start it?
22:50 < Minnebo> I see it
22:50 < MrElendig> also, type=Simple is probably wrong in this case
22:50 < Minnebo> it wants me to put ;; after each line
22:51 < msiism> Minnebo: well, cases are ended by ;; in bash.
22:51 < MrElendig> systemctl status galaxy; journalctl -b -u galaxy
22:51 < Minnebo> https://paste.ee/p/9v9Bm
22:51 < Minnebo> like this it is purfect
22:51 < MrElendig> you can do a bit of magic instead of those repeating cases
22:52 < msiism> Minnebo: why would you have 4 cases that lead to nothing being done?
22:53 < Minnebo> I want those paths to be ignored
22:54 < Minnebo> I did it wrong didn't I :D
22:54 < msiism> Minnebo: it looks a bit awkward, tbh
22:55 < msiism> Minnebo: in other words, you only want anything to be done for "dom5"?
22:55 < Minnebo> I have 40 domains approx, 4 of them have no drupal installed
22:55 < gronke> MrElendig, https://paste.pound-python.org/show/Vyog5dL8zdAK9GqgqGhL/
22:56 < Minnebo> so I want to ignore those 4, and for every other domain it should execute the code
22:56  * MrElendig would probably use python instead
22:57 < MrElendig> gronke: so the unit file has a bad argument in it
22:57 < gronke> :-O
22:57 < MrElendig> gronke: sidenote User=root is the default, but don't run as root when not really needed
22:58 < msiism> Minnebo: ok, i understand. i think this can be done in a much more effective and safer way. only i'm not really able to get it together right now. i'm not a bash expert.
22:58 < MrElendig> gronke: sure that - is supposed to be in there btw?
22:59 < Minnebo> msiism, I feel you, this is my first bash script :d
22:59 < msiism> Minnebo: well, my first bash script probably looked worse than that.
22:59 < JeffATL> even putting "<username> -" in limits.conf doesn't enable the user to renice to -1
23:00 < gronke> MrElendig, where?
23:00 < msiism> Minnebo: one thing: it's dangerous to use globbing there in the condition of the for loop.
23:00 < Minnebo> msiism, Psi-Jack put me on the right track you know
23:00 < MrElendig> Minnebo: put the things you want to ignore in a file, read it into a array and check against it
23:00 < msiism> Minnebo: also, you don't need a semicolon at the end of the first line of the for loop.
23:01 < Minnebo> k
23:01 < Minnebo> gonna continue working on it tomorrow
23:01 < Minnebo> Thanks for everything already guys :)
23:01 < msiism> Minnebo: MrElendig's solution sound good to me.
23:02 < msiism> Minnebo: what text editor are you using?
23:02 < MrElendig> gronke: pretty damn sure that you don't want KillMode process too, since that can cause it to not actually terminate..
23:03 < MrElendig> specially with forking processes
23:03 < gronke> ok, well clearly I have no idea what I'm doing here
23:03 < Ignacy> good afternoon! I've got a cheap Dell thin client fx160, with pre installed 1GB ram and 1GB SSD. Is there any distro that would fit over there?
23:03 < gronke> i'm fumbling in the dark
23:03 < Minnebo> msiism, nano
23:03 < msiism> Minnebo: i was wondering about that because the indentation of the script looks a bit screwed.
23:04 < MrElendig> you generally want as little as possible in the service file, the defaults are usually what you want
23:04 < Minnebo> talk to you tomorrow guys
23:05 < msiism> Minnebo: happy bashing in the meantime.
23:11 < Ignacy> update on a linux taking less than 1GB space: checked distrowatch but can't find search options allowing to filter by installed size
23:12 < Ignacy> but there is puppylinux.org
23:12 < ayecee> no surprise. installed size depends on which packages you choose to install.
23:14 < Ignacy> if i'd go with the bare minimum, just for a home file server, is it possible? I don't have that much experience in the matter, from what I was always told, 10GB is standard minimum.
23:15 < DynV> I'm trying to download a site (I may need to access offline) and am getting the error *GnuTLS: A TLS fatal alert has been received.* see htts://pastebin.com/aFYNGqw5
23:15 < Psi-Jack> My default base VM template disk is 8GiB.
23:15 < mawk> that's big
23:15 < Psi-Jack> And it's more less than 50% used from first boot.
23:16 < Psi-Jack> Like 8-10% I think used. heh
23:16 < Psi-Jack> Mostly its 8GiB for holding on to log files long enough to be rotated off.
23:16 < mawk> my container template is 360 MiB
23:16 < mawk> yeah
23:17 < Psi-Jack> I add disks to mount where needed depending on need. Like I'll add a vDisk for MySQL, for Mail (since I run my own mail servers), etc.
23:17 < mawk> you don't prefer containers ?
23:17 < Psi-Jack> I do not.
23:18 < mawk> what's wrong with them ?
23:18 < Psi-Jack> They suck.
23:18 < ayecee> articulate
23:19 < Psi-Jack> heh, I'm still trying to figure out how to move an existing docker container deployed with docker-compose from one system to another, successfully and reliably.
23:19 < mawk> I don't like docker
23:19 < mawk> otherwise unless you have a distributed computing cluster I don't think it's feasible
23:19 < TJ-> My VM root FS are around 2.5GB, i mount other file-systems for writable dirs, like /var and /home, as separate block devices
23:19 < mawk> with our current tools I mean
23:19 < mawk> but most tooling is here to build such an app
23:20 < mawk> use cgroups to freeze the process tree, then dump the process images, etc
23:20 < mawk> biggest problem is with alive sockets/files
23:21 < mawk> that would make up a nice subject for the yearly student project at my school
23:21 < Psi-Jack> Well, I'd deployed a rocket.chat server to my main production server, and now I want to backup the docker container, migrate it to another system not in a cluster, deploy it, then later do so again back to a newly rebuild instance.
23:22 < stevendale> Allahuakbar
23:22 < kurahaupo> mawk: something along the lines of retty would be needed to fix up open file descriptors.
23:22 < Psi-Jack> Actually what I likely want to do is back up the mongodb data and configuration rocket.chat needs, and de-deploy it into a snap.
23:22 < stevendale> Swastika
23:22 < qman__> I find that most people who have negative opinions of docker and containers are not using them correctly, which is completely understandable as that's very easy to do
23:23 < mawk> I hope I don't fall into your category qman__
23:23 < qman__> it's a significant weakness of the design, it makes it very easy to do things, but by doing so makes it easy to do things wrong
23:24 < qman__> in the esxample mentioned, you're trying to back up a container, which in itself means you've done something wrong - the container should not contain things that need backups
23:25 < mawk> not backing up, transfer live
23:25 < qman__> the data that needs backing up should be external
23:25 < qman__> or at the very least, distributed in a clustered fashion across many containers
23:25 < mawk> as it's easy to do with VMs
23:25 < mawk> snapshot, transfer the snapshot, restore
23:26 < mawk> without shutting it down
23:26 < qman__> yeah, that's not a thing you should ever need to do
23:26 < qman__> (with containers)
23:26 < DynV> URL correction http://pastebin.com/aFYNGqw5
23:26 < qman__> you should be able to just fire up more, and spin down the old ones
23:27  * spammcoin fires one up
23:28 < mawk> retty looks like a badly written software kurahaupo
23:28 < pressure679> Let's allocate some bits.
23:28 < mawk> looking at the BUGS section in the manpage
23:29 < Psi-Jack> DynV: URL correction: Never use pastebin.com
23:29 < DynV> I show paste ~7 lines here?
23:29 < kurahaupo> mawk: it's a very messy problem, you have to inject trapdoor code into the target process to get it to open the filedescriptors
23:29 < DynV> should
23:30 < Psi-Jack> No, you should use a less banned, less fraudulent pastebin site, like one listed in /topic
23:30 < majuk> Hey all. I have a PCIe card that is behavng badly. How would I verify that a given kernel pci message is associated with a given port/card?
23:30 < kurahaupo> mawk: so it's necessarily imperfect
23:30 < mawk> use mine DynV paste.serveur.io
23:30 < mawk> I see kurahaupo
23:30 < spammcoin> majuk: lspci mayhaps
23:30 < mawk> I'd do the opposite if I needed to code it kurahaupo , steal its tty
23:30 < DynV> http://paste.linux.community/view/e1fe21fb
23:30 < mawk> there is an ioctl for that
23:31 < majuk> spammcoin: The card doesn't show up there [hence behaving badly].
23:31 < mawk> actually that doesn't sound like it'd work
23:31 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Hmm. Yours isn't even in English.
23:31 < DynV> why is pastebin fraudulent?
23:31 < stefmorino> Can someone help me figure out hardware mixing on ALSA (as in avoiding dmix,asym,dsnoop)? I can do defaults.pcm.card 2 and defaults.ctl.card 2 to get hardware mixing working; however I'm trying to route my hardware through a virtual loopback card so I can capture internal audio; but even just defining the default pcm seems to completely break hardware mixing https://hastebin.com/iqelucikip.bash
23:31 < mawk> I forgot about this detail Psi-Jack
23:31 < Psi-Jack> DynV: Malvertising, for starters.
23:31 < mawk> but I have a very large choice of languages to highlight
23:32 < DynV> go to bobsandvegana.com !
23:32 < Psi-Jack> So do I, at https://paste.linux-help.org
23:32 < mawk> from befunge to brainfuck going through VHDL and kotlin
23:32 < kurahaupo> DynV: Pastebin's fidelity is lacking; you don't get back exactly what you put in, even in "raw" mode
23:33 < DynV> thats a serious issue
23:33 < Roserin> I like to think that is your compilation toolchain mawk
23:33 < mawk> lol
23:33 < Psi-Jack> DynV: exactly. Plus they used to block ad-blockers even on raw mode.
23:33 < kurahaupo> DynV: it modifies whitespace, which can mess with some types of files
23:34 < Psi-Jack> DynV: I have since personally banned pastebin.com from any network I touch. Plus, many companies ban pastebin.com
23:34 < majuk> When I re-enumerate pci devices `echo 1 > /sys/bus/pci/rescan` I get a message in /var/log/syslog something like "kernel: [ TIMESTAMP ] pci 0000:00:02.0: BAR 6: [flags and register stuff] has bogus alignment". I want to confirm that message is being generated by the PCI card that I'm not seeing in `lspci`.
23:34 < nobrain> I was using pastebin last week and my wallet disappeared from my pocket
23:34 < majuk> Any questions or comments appreciated.
23:35 < nobrain> also I heard they support democrats
23:35 < Psi-Jack> nobrain: ##politics --> that way.
23:38 < TJ-> majuk: it's about the Base Address Register #6 for device 0000:00:02.0 which you can see with "sudo lspci -nnvvvk -s 00:02.0"
23:41 < mawk> you killed the conversation nobrain
23:42 < Roserin> True
23:42 < nobrain> I stopped reading anyway
23:43 < Roserin> mawk do you really compile from befunge to brainfuck going through VHDL and kotlin
23:43 < moog> Forget netstat dude ... net-tools is over
23:43 < moog> Oo sry wrong chan
23:43 < Psi-Jack> "sorry" for future correction.
23:44 < moog> Psi-Jack: I will :)
23:45 < spammcoin> ##politics is full of bots
23:45 < bobdobbs> spammcoin: this is unsurprising
23:45 < Psi-Jack> Not our problem, either. :)
23:45 < Roserin> ##bots is full of politics
23:46 < bobdobbs> Roserin: unsurprising this is not
23:47 < majuk> TJ-: Thanks
23:49 < mawk> I was talking about syntax highlighting Roserin
23:49 < mawk> not compilation
23:49 < Roserin> Aww
23:49 < Roserin> i wanted to believe
23:50 < bobdobbs> I've created a shared folder on my ubuntu machine. I can see it's contents from my mac and windows machines. However, I've just put some new files in the shared folder, and the new files aren't visible across the network. What could be preventing them being being shareable?
23:51 < mawk> how did you copy them ?
23:51 < bobdobbs> mawk: using 'cp -r'
23:51 < Psi-Jack> bobdobbs: You made your Ubuntu machine share physical documents from your file cabinet? Robotic arm or something?
23:51 < Psi-Jack> Maybe drone?
23:52 < bobdobbs> Psi-Jack: just regular old electronic files on a regular old drive. nothing special.
23:52 < mawk> you said folder instead of directory I guess
23:52 < Psi-Jack> bobdobbs: Oh, you mean directories.
23:52 < mawk> try to type sync in your terminal bobdobbs
23:53 < mawk> then try again on the other machines
23:53 < bobdobbs> k
23:53 < cliff1245> How do I convert an exFAT file system to ext4 for free using windows 10?
23:53 < mawk> I don't think you can convert between filesystems cliff1245
23:53 < Psi-Jack> cliff1245: 1> you don't. 2> Windows is off-topic here.
23:53 < mawk> so you just get a buffer drive and make a new fs
23:54 < cliff1245> sorry, i meant format
23:54 < Psi-Jack> cliff1245: Windows is still off topic here.
23:54 < albrecht> cliff1245: my understanding is that it's probably best practice to use the OS for which the filesystem is intended to format a partition.
23:54 < bobdobbs> mawk: huh. that does the trick. I'm gonna hit up 'man sync' and see what that actually did. Thanks.
23:54 < Psi-Jack> cliff1245: WSL != Linux.
23:54 < spammcoin> does windows have the ext4 expansion pack for lease?
23:54 < phinxy> There is ##windows
23:54 < mawk> it synchronizes the disk with some cache bobdobbs
23:54 < cliff1245> i'm having trouble mounting the file system in my remnux vm
23:54 < cliff1245> i think it may be corrupt
23:55 < Psi-Jack> cliff1245: What is the REAL problem?
23:58 < cliff1245> I have a unifi video server running on an ubuntu server vm that was rebooted without unmounting the usb external drive where all of my video is saved and now I can't view any of the files that are on the hard drive through the unfi video server.  The external hard drive is formated with exfat and I'm trying to convert it to ext4.
23:58 < Psi-Jack> You don't "convert" filesystems.
23:58 < cliff1245> i know, i mistyped
23:58 < cliff1245> i meant format.
23:58 < Psi-Jack> Again?
23:58 < Psi-Jack> :p
23:58 < cliff1245> ugh
23:58 < cliff1245> yeah.
23:59 < cliff1245> sorry
23:59 < Psi-Jack> Do you not want any of the data on there?
23:59 < cliff1245> no.
23:59 < sauvin> cliff1245, you said the drive is external USB, right?
23:59 < Psi-Jack> Oh, well, just format it, then. Done.
23:59 < cliff1245> yes
23:59 < sauvin> If you want to format it ext4, you'll need to plug it into a real Linux machine.
--- Log closed Thu Apr 05 00:00:09 2018