--- Log opened Sat Apr 07 00:00:36 2018
00:16 < NGC3982> hi. im swedish, and i have a weird locale installed. i want to use en_US first and sv_SE for everything else (english with swedish special characters). i do not understand how to do this.
00:16 < NGC3982> locale tells me everything is posix
00:17 < SpaceAce> is the dietpie distro for rpi considered safe?
00:19 < NGC3982> i have LANG=sv_SE.UTF-8 set in /etc/default/locale, still åäö chars is not working.
00:19 < NGC3982> or at least, i cant see them.
00:19 < mawk> héhé
00:20 < Sitri> NGC3982: That could be because of font issues, locale only affects how certain software acts when transforming characters (IE: converting upper to/from lower) or displaying certain things.
00:21 < Psi-Jack> mawk: That's a pretty evil looking chuckle you got there.... Sir.
00:21 < mawk> :(
00:21 < mawk> it's a french chuckle
00:24 < NGC3982> Sitri: ok. then, im puzzled on what can be faulty. it was worked on previous installations, but i do not remember how i solved it.
00:24 < NGC3982> i do not understand why the command locale only shows posix when i have followed a bazillion guides on how to reconfigure with sv_SE.UTF-8
00:27 < NGC3982> åäö.
00:28 < NGC3982> ah. it resolved itself by me putting it in .bashrc
00:28 < Psi-Jack> NGC3982: Hmmm.... Diamonds?
00:28 < NGC3982> yes, i put diamonds there.
00:30  * Psi-Jack snatches the diamonds quickly.
00:31 < NGC3982> :(.
00:32 < Li> how to send a command line into screen in one line? e.g. screen mplayer *
00:32 < Psi-Jack> Why would you use screen to start mplayer?
00:32 < Li> so that I don't see any of the crappy output of mplayer
00:32 < Psi-Jack> ...
00:33 < Li> wrong answer
00:33 < Psi-Jack> Learn how to use mplayer properly?
00:33 < Li> how about that another zillion other commands?
00:33 < phaedral> What to do when my IDE flags good code as bad?
00:34 < Psi-Jack> Or you could use a better media player, like mpv
00:34 < Li> learn to use zillion command properly too?
00:34 < Li> Psi you missed the point .. mplayer was an example
00:34 < Psi-Jack> A bad one.
00:34 < Li> the question is how do send anything into a screen
00:34 < Psi-Jack> man screen
00:35 < nobrain> phaedral: let me guess, Netbeans?
00:35 < NGC3982> Li: screen -d -m -S stuff
00:35 < notadrop> What software is recommended for high quality, 1:1 rips of audio CDs on gnu+linux?
00:35 < Li> thanks NGC3982 fuck off Psi-Jack
00:35 < notadrop> I found a list: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Optical_disc_drive#CD_2
00:36 < phaedral> Android Studio, which, I think, is based on IntelliJ? I've also asked in #android, but it's pretty quiet there just now...
00:36 < notadrop> I'm thinking cdparanoia looks good
00:36 < NGC3982> Li: http://theterminallife.com/sending-commands-into-a-screen-session/
00:36 < Psi-Jack> Li: Do mind the language.
00:36 < notadrop> or maybe https://github.com/JoeLametta/whipper
00:36 < Li> Psi-Jack: do mind your behavior
00:37 < NGC3982> Li: you are not nice right now.
00:37 < ayecee> oh snap
00:37  * Psi-Jack reaches over and snaps one of ayecee's fingers. :)
00:37 < Li> NGC3982: I'm not trying to be nice but I'm fair
00:37 < notadrop> Li: if you don't want pedantic unsolicited advice, don't come to freenode
00:37 < mutante> hahaa
00:37  * geheimnisse triple snaps in Z-formation
00:37 < Li> Psi-Jack was a real jack ass
00:37 < Psi-Jack> Li: Vagueness gets vagueness. "I want to do X, eg completely unrelated to what I really want."
00:37 < Li> no shame to state a fact
00:38 < Psi-Jack> Li: There is a language policy in this channel. Please cease with the vulgarities.
00:38 < phaedral> Li: Are you a regular here? Or a visitor seeking help?
00:38  * notadrop spends 10 minutes discussing how somebody didn't ask a question precisely in the perfect way, instead of doing something better with their time
00:38 < NGC3982> see, now you woke everyone up
00:38  * notadrop is ub3r 31337
00:38 < Li> now I'm wondering if Psi-Jack's first language is english or s/he is really stupid
00:39 < ayecee> Li: ok, you've said your piece. time to move on.
00:39 < Psi-Jack> He already /part
00:39 < diogenese> he moved on
00:39 < ayecee> \o/
00:39 < NGC3982> it's exciting to see that channel drama is the absolute best way to get activity.
00:39 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: Smart filtering joins/parts is nice. :)
00:39 < mutante> notadrop: let's discuss that for a couple min
00:39 < NGC3982> ./ignore * join part quit <- right?
00:39 < geheimnisse> jeez it's friday and everyones been on edge. i just dealt with angry people all day at my job and now everyones angry here
00:40  * notadrop passes a blunt around the channel
00:40 < Psi-Jack> notadrop: Please none of that here.
00:40 < ayecee> illegal drugs are illegal
00:40  * NGC3982 pats shoulder.
00:40 < notadrop> it's legal here :)
00:40 < phaedral> notadrop: don't mind if I do...
00:40 < phaedral> but check your jurisdiction
00:40 < notadrop> ^
00:40 < notadrop> yeah please only toke on the virtual blunt if it's legal there, lol
00:41 < Psi-Jack> notadrop: Such things are literally off-topic on Freenode as a whole.
00:41 < notadrop> oh! sorry.
00:41 < ayecee> i'll stick with the legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco
00:41 < notadrop> but it's legal here
00:41 < Psi-Jack> notadrop: Doesn't matter. Stop.
00:41 < notadrop> Psi-Jack: I think you need some of this man
00:41 < Psi-Jack> I'll take not even a single drop.
00:42 < Psi-Jack> :)
00:42 < geheimnisse> i never cared about what was legal. live a little.
00:42 < ayecee> did he part?
00:42 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: He did.
00:42 < ayecee> weird
00:42 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: What client you using?
00:42 < ayecee> irssi
00:42 < NGC3982> i love irssi.
00:42 < phaedral> Would this be a good time to re-introduce my question about Android Studio, which is based on IntelliJ, incorrectly flagging an import statement?
00:42 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, there was a fantastic irssi script with smart filtering for joins/parts.
00:42 < NGC3982> åäö
00:42  * Psi-Jack snatches the diamonds again!
00:42 < NGC3982> but i cant get my locale right init. :(
00:43 < ayecee> phaedral: probably not
00:43 < phaedral> ayecee: ok
00:43 < Psi-Jack> phaedral: Might be best to use the appropriate channel(s) for that.
00:43 < NGC3982> Psi-Jack: filtering? why not simply ignore it.
00:43 < phaedral> Tried #android first; no one talking/no reply, hence my effort to make it a generic question suitable for this channel...
00:44 < NGC3982> UTF-8 /set recode ON /set recode_out_default_charset UTF-8 /set
00:44 < NGC3982> oh god. sorry.
00:44 < Psi-Jack> NGC3982: Because if they said something in the past ~10minutes and leave, then you know about it, and know t hey're not here anymore.
00:44 < aeyxa> will mount -a remount or only mount unmounted?
00:44 < Psi-Jack> Very useful. :)
00:44 < Psi-Jack> mount
00:44 < ayecee> aeyxa: only mount unmounted
00:44 < aeyxa> good, thanks
00:45 < phaedral> Y'all have a good weekend.
00:45 < qazey> ayecee, Rainbow berries.
00:46 < NGC3982> åäö.
00:46  * Psi-Jack snags more diamonds.
00:46 < Psi-Jack> NGC3982: Keep it up. I'll be super rich! :)
00:46 < NGC3982> :).
00:46 < NGC3982> i think i got it working.
00:46 < Psi-Jack> NGC3982: Maybe test in ##NGC3982?
00:47 < ayecee> i think he could use single hash
00:47 < NGC3982> it's official!
00:47 < ayecee> i can start ##NGC3982 to discuss NGC3982
00:47 < notadrop> 2meta4me
00:48  * NGC3982 is quite discussable as an object.
00:49 < ayecee> as in "what shall we do about the NGC3982 problem"
00:49 < ayecee> or debates over the NGC3982 question
00:49 < aeyxa> I changed my /etc/fstab and then I ran mount -a but it's using the old mount from before I saved
00:49 < aeyxa> is there like a reread config flag or something?
00:50 < ayecee> aeyxa: no
00:50 < Psi-Jack> mount -a doesn't unmount or change existing mounts.
00:50 < Psi-Jack> Just mounts unmounted..
00:51 < aeyxa> yeah I unmounted the other one, changed mount and did mount -a
00:51 < aeyxa> and the old mount got remounted
00:52 < aeyxa> though if I list all with `mount` it's not the old mount ...so idk
00:52 < aeyxa> :\
00:52 < aeyxa> probably doing something stupid somewhere
00:52 < aeyxa> I'll find it eventually
00:52 < ayecee> almost certainly :)
00:53 < kurahaupo> aeyxa: cat /proc/mounts gives the kernel's view of the world
00:57 < qazey> Psi-Jack, Ice cream?
00:57 < ghal> What would the easiest was to back-up an entire system, transsfter it to a win machine (Only got ethernet), reinstall the other machine with encryption, and then transfer the old system back without making you hate yourself too much?
00:58 < Psi-Jack> qazey: Why do you scream?
00:58 < ayecee> because we all scream
00:58 < Psi-Jack> For ice cream?
00:58 < ayecee> delicious
01:05 < twainwek> KDE question: Window A has focus. Window B is alt dragged to overlap Window A. Result: Window A covers Window B. Anyway to make it so that the window being alt-dragged covers window that has focus?
01:06 < ldiamond> I have a X11 session with a window manager running on this machine which I access through SSH. I tried running `x11vnc` and connecting to it but all I get is a gray screen. How do I remotely hook to the same "session+wm" as when I was working locally?
01:07 < geheimnisse> ghal targz your home directory and /etc, reinstall with fde, extract home/etc
01:07 < geheimnisse> but it's on you if you fuck it up
01:08 < orbisvicis> is it possible to see the console log, beneath X ?
01:08 < geheimnisse> youll need to reinstall all packages bee tee dubs
01:09 < geheimnisse> orbisvicis go to tty0
01:10 < geheimnisse> ctrl alt f1
01:11 < geheimnisse> if you need to scroll back start it in a tmux sesh or screen sesh
01:11 < notadrop> twainwek: clicking the window to drag it doesn't give it focus in KDE?
01:11 < notadrop> even with Alt, it gets focus in Xfce
01:13 < Psilocyber> How do I linux?
01:13 < geheimnisse> psilocyber you waddle around like a penguin making indiscriminate honking noises
01:13 < notadrop> Psilocyber: I have to interject here for a moment, if you'll allow
01:14 < ayecee> not the copypasta
01:14 < notadrop> Psilocyber: it's more properly referred to GNU/Linux, or GNU+Linux (Gnu plus Linux)
01:14 < Psilocyber> lololol
01:14 < orbisvicis> what I needed was to cat /dev/vcs3
01:14 < notadrop> You see, Linux is just the kernel
01:14 < ayecee> notadrop: please stop
01:14 < notadrop> I'm totally serious
01:14 < Psilocyber> yeah stop and i wont ask that question again, ever LOL
01:14 < ayecee> me too!
01:14 < notadrop> :/
01:14 < notadrop> fine
01:15 < geheimnisse> psilocyber: insert rms copypasta here
01:15 < Psilocyber> a lot of people use that as a copypasta meme
01:15 < notadrop> RMS doesn't get the respect he deserves
01:15 < notadrop> He put too many points into Int and not enough into Charisma
01:15 < notadrop> common error
01:15 < ayecee> probably because of the copypasta dumped in his name
01:16 < notadrop> >>
01:16 < geheimnisse> i agree i use bsd mostly at home, and i got mad respect for GnuMan. hes a G.
01:16 < notadrop> nana nana nana nana GnuMan!
01:17 < geheimnisse> the current free software ecosystem wouldnt exist without GnuMan
01:17 < notadrop> what a dark place that would be
01:17 < ayecee> or maybe it would
01:17 < geheimnisse> maybe
01:18 < geheimnisse> nananananananananananananagnumannnnn
01:18 < ayecee> we may never know for sure
01:18 < notadrop> well, I think it's safe to say that we all benefit from his presence
01:18 < geheimnisse> sí
01:18 < notadrop> even and especially the people outside the foss world
01:19 < notadrop> who don't even know what foss is
01:19 < notadrop> or what a compiler is
01:19 < geheimnisse> they still benefit
01:19 < ayecee> foss was the guy on happy days
01:19 < notadrop> hah
01:19 < geheimnisse> like non union workers benefit from strong unions
01:19 < notadrop> right
01:20 < lupine> rms is god
01:20 < geheimnisse> i am satan
01:20 < lupine> or the closest we're going to get
01:20 < geheimnisse> i mean ... sorry
01:20 < notadrop> sail hatin'
01:20 < notadrop> just kidding
01:20 < ayecee> it was just a prank bro
01:21 < Psilocyber> heh just saw this https://github.com/nikital/kgotobed
01:21 < notadrop> lmao
01:21 < notadrop> I need this
01:21 < notadrop> git clone'd
01:22 < notadrop> seriously though, I think one alternative is to wake up really early, and do things then
01:22 < notadrop> I don't think it's the night per se that night owls like... just the peace of being awake while most people are asleep
01:22 < killown> why firefox build for archlinux hasn't enabled the new hide title bar feature?
01:22 < notadrop> at least, for me
01:22 < notadrop> killown: you mean client side decorations?
01:22 < notadrop> it's only in 59+ afaik
01:22 < killown> notadrop, that s correct
01:22 < notadrop> oh!
01:23 < notadrop> hm weird
01:23 < ayecee> killown: because the maintainer doesn't have your keen insight
01:23 < killown> 59.0.2 (64-bit)
01:23 < notadrop> yeah, I see that now
01:23 < notadrop> Debian/Ubuntu builds don't have it, either.
01:23 < notadrop> Firefox beta has it. Fedora has it
01:23 < geheimnisse> notadrop no i like the night
01:25 < killown> I sent an email to the maintainer, he opened the email and didn't reply for days
01:25 < notadrop> sounds like arch
01:25 < ayecee> me_irl
01:28 < notadrop> killown: if you use GNOME, there is an extension called Undecorate, or something like that.
01:29 < geheimnisse> sounds scandalous
01:29 < notadrop> but then you might as well just get the binary from moz, or whatever
01:30 < sysrpl> hi. i am runnign debian with lgithdm and cinnamon as my desktop.for whatever reason .profile is never being executed when i login, andi have no .bash* files in my home folder
01:31 < sysrpl> why isn't .profile being executed?
01:31 < storge> hola, i've been reading up on xinit, startx, xsession, etc and i think i am getting a grip on various processes that start X, but does anyone know of a good comparison or side-by-side comparison on the different approaches?
01:31 < geheimnisse> sysrpl what are the permissions on .profile
01:31 < ayecee> sysrpl: i think /etc/profile would have to source it
01:31 < sysrpl> everyone has read, and execute
01:32 < notadrop> everyone?
01:32 < ayecee> including my dog
01:32 < notadrop> sounds like some weird permissions. usually everyone outisde the user's group is read only, afaik?
01:33 < geheimnisse> ayecees dog doesnt need to be reading your .profile
01:33 < notadrop> not saying I think that's the cause, just saying
01:33 < sysrpl> okay, /etc/profile doesn't have . $HOME/.profile ... should i add it?
01:33 < ayecee> that's good, because he's not very good at it
01:33 < ayecee> sysrpl: worth a try
01:33 < geheimnisse> sysrpl yes
01:33 < sysrpl> does .profile need a shebang?
01:33 < ayecee> not if you're sourcing it
01:33 < sysrpl> okay
01:34 < geheimnisse> but if it still wont exec yes
01:34 < ayecee> it wouldn't be exec'ed
01:34 < ayecee> it must be sourced, or it doesn't affect the current session
01:34 < sysrpl> the variable $HOME is valid in /etc/profile ?
01:35 < ayecee> idk. probably?
01:35 < geheimnisse> yes
01:35 < sysrpl> okay, restarting my session
01:35 < sysrpl> brb
01:35 < geheimnisse> have fun
01:38 < sysrpl> okay, my .profile is still not being executed
01:38 < sysrpl> what should i try next?
01:39 < ayecee> tested how
01:39 < geheimnisse> you added "source $HOME/.profile"?
01:39 < sysrpl> i stopped lightdm
01:39 < sysrpl> no ... ". $HOME/.profile"
01:39 < ayecee> what would indicate that it had been sourced
01:39 < notadrop> sysrpl: is this a login shell?
01:39 < sysrpl> this is cinnamon
01:40 < sysrpl> so yes,it's a login
01:40 < notadrop> oh. okay.
01:40 < ayecee> so, what would indicate that it had been sourced?
01:40 < sysrpl> ayecee, i write echo hello > $HOME/hello.txt in .profile, and there is no hello.txt
01:41 < ayecee> that's a good test
01:41 < sysrpl> also my ~/bin is not in my path
01:41 < geheimnisse> echo "source $HOME/.profile" >> /etc/profile
01:41 < ayecee> i guess next step is to verify that /etc/profile is being sourced, maybe by the same mechanism
01:41 < ayecee> geheimnisse: source is an alias for .
01:42 < geheimnisse> oh
01:42 < sysrpl> okay
01:42 < sysrpl> so what sources /etc/profile?
01:43 < ayecee> good question
01:43 < ayecee> putting a similar test in /etc/profile will help determine if it's being sourced at all
01:44 < sysrpl> okay brb again
01:47 < geheimnisse> rip sysrpl
01:47 < notadrop> so
01:48 < notadrop> I'm trying to figure out what is going on here. the DM logs them in, so that spwans a login shell, which spawns cinnamon?
01:48 < notadrop> maybe some page at tldp covers this?
01:50 < ayecee> that's my understanding
01:50 < notadrop> so then cinnamon inherits the .profile and such from the login shell?
01:51 < ayecee> yes
01:51 < notadrop> i'm reading this right now: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/ProcessManagement#On_processes.2C_environments_and_inheritance
01:53 < notadrop> explains it really well
01:53 < notadrop> I'm not sure why I don't see this site mentioned often. It looks really good.
01:53 < ayecee> i think it's because the info is frequently out of date
01:54 < ayecee> not always, but often enough
01:56 < sysrpl> okay, so after a reboot ... i have determined that /etc/profile is not sourced
01:56 < sysrpl> this is debian 9 btw
01:56 < aaro> sysrpl, try ~/.xprofile
01:57 < sysrpl> i had created ~/xsession, and that doesn't run either
01:57 < sysrpl> does ~/.xprofile need a shebang?
01:57 < ayecee> no
01:57 < sysrpl> or rather i create ~/.xsession
01:57 < sysrpl> k trying
01:58 < geheimnisse> try also /.bashrc
01:58 < sysrpl> yeah i know about bashrc
02:02 < sysrpl> okay .xprofile doesn't execute eithe
02:02 < sysrpl> r
02:02 < twainwek> notadrop: no, alt dragging a window that doesn't have focus doesn't give the window being dragged focus
02:02 < stranglerfish> hey, i was on here a few hours ago asking about help with a weather script that was written in bash. recommended to just use python as the api returns json.
02:02 < sysrpl> the problem with bashrc is that it executes everytime i open a terminal
02:02 < stranglerfish> I've gotten that working to an extent, i'm now able to extract the weather information i need however i don't know how to get python to output the weather icon that i was displaying in the bash script.
02:03 < sysrpl> i just want something to set some variables when i log into cinnamon
02:03 < mutante> stranglerfish: i would still use bash and use "jq" to parse the json :p
02:04 < stranglerfish> omg no lol, i already remade it in python. now i just need to display it properly: https://pastebin.com/BKAZDAV8
02:04 < stranglerfish> in bash i had say something like ICON_SUNNY=\uF185
02:05 < aaro> sysrpl, just look for you DM doc, i read you use lightdm which according to docs natively sources .xprofile as most DM's, but i guess not :/, anyway, it's lightdm thing you need to check
02:06 < sysrpl> i think i will put something in  /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99x11-common_start
02:06 < Meteor0ID> trying to understand what export ¨abc¨ >> ~/.bashrc does exactly
02:06 < stranglerfish> so in the bash script originally ICON_SUNNY=\uF15 and could just echo that and it would display the right icon in my status bar
02:06 < stranglerfish> i don't know how to print something like that using python though. i don't know python actually i just kinda googled random crap until i got that program working
02:07 < stranglerfish> i'm using nerd fonts, btw
02:07 < stranglerfish> doesn't help i know nothing about how fonts work either lol
02:07 < koala_man> stranglerfish: icon={"Snow": "\uF069", "Fog": "\uF070"};  print(icon[weather])
02:09 < stranglerfish> it gives me an error about ascii codec can't encode character '\uf069' in position 0
02:09 < stranglerfish> i looked it up and it said to use encode, but i don't know what to encode to or how :P
02:11 < notadrop> stranglerfish: there is #learnprogramming and ##programming and #python if you don't get an answer here.
02:11 < notadrop> stranglerfish: I think what you're asking may be a bit outside the (usual) scope of this channel
02:11 < notadrop> though I'm sure *someone* here knows the answer
02:12 < notadrop> stranglerfish: be prepared to describe your problem in slightly more detail. maybe throw your python script up on a pastebin
02:12 < notadrop> and link it with your question
02:12 < notadrop> https://paste.pound-python.org/
02:12 < notadrop> good luck!
02:13 < stranglerfish> yeah i just figured here might be relevant cause it's a custom font that i'm using on linux and i dunno which area is most relevant to be reading into
02:13 < Pentode> pam_systemd(su:session): Cannot create session: Already running in a session ... hrmph. bizzaro.
02:14 < dannylee> ok
02:14 < notadrop> stranglerfish: could I see your code?
02:16 < stranglerfish> https://pastebin.com/BKAZDAV8
02:17 < stranglerfish> that's w/o the attempts to actually print it to my status bar (i3blocks)
02:17 < notadrop> might want to not paste your API key. I'm not sure how openweathermap works
02:17 < notadrop> actually, never mind, I'm sure it's fine
02:18 < stranglerfish> it's fine i can just make a new one
02:18 < stranglerfish> worst case it gets blocked, i request a second
02:19 < notadrop> stranglerfish: when I run it, I get this output:
02:19 < notadrop> Clouds
02:19 < notadrop> 0.09
02:19 < hdon> hi all :) bash question. is there a more concise way to branch on command failure (nonzero exit) and capture the exit code? i naively tried "if ! cmd ; then echo $? ; done" but the ! seems to invert the $?
02:19 < notadrop> that's all I see
02:19 < sysrpl> okay, so i got one thing to work
02:20 < notadrop> but of course, the icons aren't used
02:20 < stranglerfish> yeah so that works but
02:20 < notadrop> so
02:20 < hdon> i thought to use || but i want to run a command and then exit if the result is nonzero
02:20 < stranglerfish> what i need to do is instead of output cloud, output the icon for it
02:20 < sysrpl> i created a ~/.xsessionrc with . ~/.profile and that works
02:20 < stranglerfish> but print complains about ascii codec, i dunno how to properly encode it
02:20 < treefrob> djph, the (apparent) solution to my problem of excluding wlan and wwan devices is trivial
02:21 < notadrop> stranglerfish: yeah, when I try print("\UF185") in the interpreter, I get a SyntaxError (unicode error)
02:21 < mutante> hdon: how about just running the command and on the next line   if [ $? -ne 0 ]
02:21 < notadrop> stranglerfish: you just need to look into how to encode unicode in python 3, should be a search away
02:21 < notadrop> stranglerfish: https://docs.python.org/3/howto/unicode.html
02:21 < stranglerfish> oh ok, i'll try that in a few bit distracted. ty
02:21 < notadrop> stranglerfish: i just searched: "unicode python 3"
02:21 < notadrop> first result.
02:21 < hdon> mutante: that might work. will $? retain the result of the command after the -ne test?
02:22 < hdon> mutante: it looks like it does not :(
02:22 < stranglerfish> yeah issue was i didn't know if the font i'm using is unicode. i guess it must be considering
02:22 < stranglerfish> UnicodeEncodeError
02:22 < notadrop> stranglerfish: go through this, in order, and do the exercises, when you have time, if you find yourself writing python scripts: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/
02:22 < treefrob> djph, I just exclude everything that doesn't begin with "en"
02:22 < stranglerfish> i actually have the humblebundle that gave tons of python stuff, i've just been doing java lately
02:23 < notadrop> python stuff?
02:23 < notadrop> like what?
02:23 < stranglerfish> but i will learn foundations and such soon this is just a bash script that i'm trying to get working quick
02:23 < stranglerfish> uhh, $1000+ worth of textbooks
02:23 < notadrop> yeah I understand
02:23 < notadrop> oh cool
02:23 < stranglerfish> from basics to AI, machine learning, w.e
02:23 < notadrop> nice
02:23 < notadrop> is it still available?
02:23 < mutante> hdon: no, but you can  set your own variable to the value of $?
02:23 < hdon> mutante: true, but not it is not so concise anymore :)
02:23 < hdon> now*
02:23 < stranglerfish> it became available again recently, if not i can maybe upload them somewhere for you but not right now, i'm watching a show with my bf
02:24 < stranglerfish> he's telling me to pay attention lol
02:24 < stranglerfish> pm me, i'll leave hexchat open and send you a link later
02:25 < mutante> hdon: if command ; then  ... else ...  fi
02:25 < mutante> hdon: that also gets you the else part for "everything that isnt exit 0"
02:26 < mutante> or "if ! command"
02:27 < sysrpl> thanks all for the help
02:27 < hdon> mutante: yes in case of else then it works :)
02:27 < hdon> mutante: "if ! command" does not work because the ! changes the $?
02:29 < mutante> hdon: interesting. well, you can just do "nothing" in the first case and only use the else.   :   means nothing
02:29 < mutante> "The no-op command in shell is : (colon)."
02:30 < hdon> mutante: mmm seems like i have some options. thanks mutante :)
02:30 < mutante> hdon: you're welcome
02:35 < Gustavo6046> How do I use ImageMagick's convert in a less memory-using way?
02:36 < mutante> Gustavo6046: it has a -limit option   https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8700958/limiting-imagemagick-memory-use
02:36 < Gustavo6046> Thanks
02:37 < Gustavo6046> I think it's easier to convert the video frames to a smaller size before GIF'ing it, first.
02:37 < Gustavo6046> Does FFmpeg have something like convert's 'resize'?
02:37 < Gustavo6046> Nevermind
02:37 < Gustavo6046> thanks
02:39 < Gustavo6046> That seems to be working fine so far.
02:39 < Gustavo6046> Oh yay
02:46 < V7> Hey all
02:47 < V7> So, an issue with mouse still exists.
02:48 < V7> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1022648/suddenly-touchpad-of-x201-has-just-stopped-working I've created a question, but ... after 5 hours .... 6 views.
02:49 < V7> KDE chat says this's linux related, so they don't have to help here. Strange. Their forum is quite too. One day the message is on their forum, but ... no reply.
02:50 < V7> So, might be that anyone've had such an issue and could recommend what do next.
02:53 < jim> so, we know that xinput &etc sees the mouse.... could you say more about exactly what the mouse is doing or not doing?
02:54 < V7> The touchpad, trackball and buttons between trackball and touchpad work, but the buttons undertouchpad don't
02:54 < V7> https://i.imgur.com/eisYOMz.png
02:55 < storge> i have the same hardware
02:56 < storge> need me to query/compare anything?
02:56 < jim> is there anything you can do to restart them? (it seems to me the buttons below are extra?)
02:56 < storge> that's what he's asking, basically
02:57 < V7> So, these the touchpad and trackball are connected separately, so they have different buses
02:57 < jim> for example, what if he stops and starts the *dm?
02:58 < V7> Thank you jim, really, but what do you mean ?
03:00 < V7> storge: Thank you, does your xinput list looks the same ?
03:00 < V7> look *
03:06 < V7> Also, storge, does your xinput list-promps look the same as https://hastebin.com/gamizokicu.nginx ?
03:06 < V7> As you see, there's Synaptics ClickPad
03:07 < storge> i don't find an xinput in my system
03:08 < storge> where is it? (path)
03:08 < V7> xinput: /usr/bin/xinput
03:09 < storge> i don't have one, sorry
03:09 < ghal> That took a shitton longer than it should have...:|
03:10 < storge> i was afk a few minutes
03:10 < storge> i have an /usr/bin/lxinput
03:11 < storge> but this seems unrelated
03:13 < storge> i'm running debian / xdm / openbox, for what it's worth
03:15 < xandroid52> hello
03:15 < xandroid52> im newbie
03:15 < xandroid52> at linux
03:15 < mateothegreat> xandroid52, welcome
03:15 < xandroid52> and i want to know, if debian 9 is good
03:15 < storge> define good
03:15 < mateothegreat> I'd recommend ubuntu if this is your first go around
03:16 < xandroid52> im advising myself
03:16 < xandroid52> for ethical hacking
03:16 < storge> debian is perhaps the largest most successful open source software platform, that might mean it's good
03:16 < xandroid52> and computer security
03:16 < storge> oh, for ethical hacking? --anything without systemd.
03:17 < xandroid52> i know windows
03:17 < xandroid52> like my hand
03:17 < storge> xandroid52: think of it like this:
03:18 < zapotah> dont
03:18 < xandroid52> dont what
03:18 < storge> xandroid52: with enough time, money, and effort, you can turn a race car into a truck, or a truck into a race car. or you can buy a truck or buy a racecar. likewise, you can turn any linux into another linux, with enough effort. or you can get the one up front that is closest to your needs.
03:19 < Sitri> xandroid52: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhixgUqwRTjxglIswKp9mpkfPNfHkzyeN <-- This includes a brief intro so you can start doing stuff
03:19 < zapotah> there is no "fast track" to being an "infosec specialist" or "penetration tester"
03:20 < Sitri> You don't need anything specific for most of the tools, but if you want to run CTF challenges, then generally you need special (usually older) distros.
03:20 < zapotah> having the tools is irrelevant
03:20 < xandroid52> thank you
03:20 < xandroid52> for all
03:20 < xandroid52> cool community
03:21 < xandroid52> my primary objective
03:21 < xandroid52> is privacy, and in windows we all know that privacy is an issue, at least that is what i always hear
03:21 < zapotah> -.-
03:21 < xandroid52> privacy includes, security
03:22 < xandroid52> xD
03:22 < ayecee> this guy has the cadence
03:22 < ayecee> and delivery
03:22 < ayecee> of a modern day shatner
03:22 < storge> xandroid52: so some sort of live-distro that lives in ram, kills itself properly, and has cool terminals that make you look l33t
03:23 < storge> ayecee: perhaps because
03:23 < storge> xandroid52 is new
03:23 < storge> he doesn't
03:23 < storge> quite know
03:23 < storge> that we prefer long sentences instead of pushing others off the screen
03:23 < ayecee> ah, an xandroid52 apologist
03:24 < storge> ayecee: no apologism, just a due-diligence attempt at politeness
03:24  * zapotah pokes ayecee in the pooper
03:24  * storge (before the flames)
03:25 < storge> zapotah: careful, unsolicted poking in the pooper can lead to bad effects, such as banning, or becoming US President
03:25 < zapotah> storge: aint that the truth
03:26 < zapotah> ive still what little faith in the community here to not be the kind that they are at ##windows-server
03:26 < zapotah> that bs is unbelievable
03:27 < ayecee> no other channel drama pleas
03:27 < ayecee> we make our own, fresh
03:27 < zapotah> linux doesnt spare words :3
03:27 < storge> zapotah: i've never heard of or been to that channel, but i instantly identify it as a place i will never go
03:27 < zapotah> linus even
03:27 < storge> ayecee: amen
03:27 < zapotah> ayecee: aye
03:27 < xandroid52> i have anxiety and sometimes i send like a retard like 9000 messages, sorry is not the first time i do this, anyway, id like to be full stack too, or in any case back end dev, and i think that in linux maybe there is more security than in windows, better said, i suppose you have a better management of the os, and bc of that you can just handle better the security issues better
03:28 < xandroid52> for example i said "like" twice in less than 3 words , lol
03:28 < zapotah> ayecee: dont know if youve watched the press releases where torvalds speaks?
03:28 < storge> xandroid52: i can't give specific info, but in the sense of "if i could learn it all over" it would be this: no matter what distro i use (and i think you should use more than one at a time) i would focus on the commandline. it iwll help everything later. learn bash intimately.
03:28 < ayecee> wat
03:29 < zapotah> ayecee: its always a broadside of non-pg13 aimed at someone
03:29 < storge> xandroid52: the more you focus on the commandline, the more you will see the similarities and differences between the way distros do things.
03:30 < ayecee> why are you telling me these things
03:30 < strive> lol
03:30 < zapotah> ayecee: i have absolutely no idea
03:31 < storge> xandroid52: keep in mind that what you see (the desktop gui) is what mainly separates the distros. under the hood, it all becomes much more similar. every car or truck has an engine, alternator, exhaust, drivetrain, etc. ...the rest is style and tweaks.
03:31 < zapotah> if this channel tries to enforce the same kind of make-believe pg13 that ive seen in some places, that will quite literally be hypocritical and against the nix philosophy
03:31 < storge> xandroid52: so always keep a terminal open. if you know how to do things with a mouse, you should know even better how to do the same without a mouse.
03:31 < zapotah> attacking someone verbally directly without logic is obviously always reprimandable
03:31 < xandroid52> you are so right storge
03:32 < zapotah> but trying to maintain "banned words" and a "code of conduct" based on a subjective belief of "professionalism" on the internet and irc of all places
03:32 < zapotah> that is just utter bs
03:32 < storge> xandroid52: i would make extensive use early on of multiplexers like tmux or screen, and learn as much as you can from the various bash documentation sources out there. imagine that everything you do in someone else's computer will be through a terminal
03:33 < xandroid52> zapotah and not only that, it shows you that the one saying that has problems in his life, and (maybe) he can not express it, so he repress all the anger, or maybe, a resentment generated by trauma
03:33 < zapotah> xandroid52: naw
03:33 < xandroid52> zapotah you can deny it, but its true in the majority of cases
03:33 < zapotah> xandroid52: i just find the murican work culture and being politically correct a deterrent for any kind of intelligent thought
03:34 < storge> zapotah: i tend to agree
03:34 < pnbeast> zapotah, please, do tell, zapotah.  We all wince under these chains of censorship that bind us in this prison.
03:34 < zapotah> pnbeast: naw, its not evident here
03:34 < storge> zapotah: it tends to enforce prevarication and deceit
03:34 < jim> xandroid52, just to give you some perspective, when linux was running pretty good (compilers working fine, etc), we didn't have any graphical anything yet... everything was all text
03:34 < zapotah> not right now anyway
03:34 < zapotah> but ive been reprimanded for "bad words" too many times
03:34 < xandroid52> jim nice, so the core is really good
03:36 < jim> yep, and, that probably at least implies how expressive and powerful things are in text, with shells and such
03:36 < xandroid52> zapotah, i dont know the rules of this channel, but being politically correct from my pov is so poor and false
03:36 < storge> xandroid52: to jim 's point, right now your desktop gui has a tty underneath that you login into (outside of your gui, while the gui is running), and there is a suprising amount of work you can do (browsing internet, watching movies) that you can do in the framebuffer environment itself, outside of the gui desktop environment entirely. it all evolved from text terminals.
03:37 < pnbeast> xandroid52, don't let them fool you.  You can't play xbill in a terminal.  Graphics are important, too!
03:37 < zapotah> xandroid52: and i couldnt agree more with you there
03:37 < Namarrgon> xeyes is the sole reason guis were invented
03:37 < storge> xandroid52: this channel doesn't like certain assemblages of letters, commonly known as swear words, in an effort to defend the sanctity and innocense of some mythical family i have never met here, but i comply, because oh well
03:37 < zapotah> but when it comes to tech and whatnot, it will be no-bullshit with me
03:37 < zapotah> always
03:37 < pnbeast> xeyes is awesome!
03:38 < storge> Namarrgon: +1
03:38 < jim> pnbeast, yep, graphics are very useful... my only point is that there was a point at which there was no graphics, and it was all text
03:38 < xandroid52> storge, being good with your fellows must be unquestionable
03:39 < xandroid52> sorry, it was for zapotah xD, and storge, thanks for the info
03:39 < zapotah> xandroid52: and there is no depth you can hope to probe on a personal level that i wouldnt have gone through in the last few years
03:39 < storge> zapotah: quit bragging
03:39 < zapotah> was that...bragging? O.o
03:40 < jim> xandroid52, I take it you're fairly new to linux?
03:40 < xandroid52> storge, anyway, i will try to learn bash, i think that its like dos, in windows i can do everything with a cmd, but in linux, i only know apt-get update and idk what the fuck does, i think just update some packages but idk for what are those packages and bla bla bla
03:41 < xandroid52> jim, yes
03:41 < Sitri> I will repeat my recommendation to look at the LiveOverflow stuff
03:41 < zapotah> xandroid52: the dos command prompt is being deprecated btw
03:41 < zapotah> xandroid52: and all new functionality is being put into PS
03:41 < ayecee> if there's one thing that gets your point across, it's repeating it.
03:41 < storge> xandroid52: last night, as i was stripping things out of a default install, i kept a terminal open just running pstree. i would use that to see which programs begat what other programs. it's helpful.
03:42 < zapotah> theres a lot of stuff you need to do even with daily things that has to be done through PS
03:42 < jim> xandroid52, (please watch the language) ok, what do you initially envision you would use linux for?
03:42 < zapotah> for better or worse
03:43 < zapotah> and no new cmd applications are developed and id imagine that when we reach the next iteration of W it will all be PS
03:43 < zapotah> which is honestly intersting that there will be bash on W semi-natively at that point too
03:43 < xandroid52> jim, what do you mean by "please watch the language" i didnt say nothing bad; zapotah, so i think i will just migrate to windows 10 and learn some powershell :/, but first bash xD
03:44 < zapotah> bash is extremely easy compared to PS
03:44 < zapotah> for basics anyway
03:44 < jim> xandroid52, there was a passing f-bomb
03:45 < xandroid52> did i said something wrong, yes or no
03:45 < zapotah> PS gets very deep very soon especially if you cant do what you need with cmdlets
03:45 < pnbeast> jim, please mind the non-native English speakers and don't use shorthand.
03:45 < pnbeast> It can be confusing for them.
03:45 < zapotah> since interacting with wmi directly is...non-intuitive at best
03:46 < zapotah> kernel apis are far far easier by comparison
03:46 < jim> yeah, however the channel rules have a policy against -excessive- profanity, and you only used profanity once
03:46 < jim> which is not excessive
03:47 < ayecee> what's less well known is the policy against unimaginitive profanity
03:47 < jim> pnbeast, true, he might not know what an f-bomb is
03:47  * pnbeast can imagine quite a bit of profanity.
03:47 < storge> unimaginative profanity?
03:48 < zapotah> thank god for jim for being a voice of reason
03:48  * storge can imagine pnbeast imagining
03:48 < zapotah> let this place never be on the level of ##windows-server
03:48  * ayecee imagines pnbeast
03:48 < ayecee> no other channel drama please
03:48 < zapotah> i dont use profanities unless its warranted :3
03:49 < pnbeast> jim, these guys are starting to make me nervous.  You'll protect me, right?
03:49 < storge> pnbeast: nervous?
03:49 < zapotah> they consider "retarded" to be a "bad word" that is unprofessional
03:49  * storge steps closer to pnbeast, resting a hand on his hip "why would we make you nervous?"
03:49 < zapotah> their definition of "professional" is ludicrous at best
03:49 < konimex> unprofessional? in an irc?
03:50 < pnbeast> jim, they're imagining me!  Make 'em stop!
03:50 < storge> konimex: right?
03:50 < zapotah> konimex: I WOULD NEVER!
03:50 < zapotah> anyway
03:50 < konimex> professionalism only works in a work setting
03:50 < zapotah> its early, better get some sleep
03:50 < jim> haven't been on ##windows-server... having said that, keep in mind that while an individual person might be on some channel for long enough to ask a question and get it answered, the ops stay there all day, and so they get everything piled at them
03:51 < storge> jim: quit bragging
03:51 < storge> ;)
03:51 < zapotah> lol
03:51 < zapotah> nighty
03:51 < jim> zapotah, I think "retarted" when applied to a person is a mean word
03:51 < storge> i don't
03:51 < ayecee> can't even spell retarded properly
03:52 < zapotah> jim: if something theyre proposing is truly insane and defies all logic, it is retarded
03:52 < storge> my stepdaughter is a quadriplegic, and has brain problems. she is retarded from attending school normally, she is retarded from making friends normally, she is retarded from speaking normally. in short, she's retarded. and i love her.
03:52 < zapotah> and this particular instance didnt even involve anyone present in the conversation
03:52 < storge> to me, retarded in that use is a functional word, not a slight.
03:53 < xandroid52> jim, same, i dont use it as an insult, or a "bed werd", i used it to make fun of a fact, if that is that is consider being agressive or a bad word or idk, i dont ment to be rude, but thats a little bit silly, i dont think so that anyone less than 15 years old is online here
03:53 < storge> and to the point: if you were standing there with she and i, and i said retarded, she would not interpret it as a slur unless and until you went "oh my god that's so mean"
03:53 < zapotah> storge: well, in that particular case theyve a legit handicap
03:53 < zapotah> storge: and nothing will change that
03:53 < storge> zapotah: yes, she is technically retarded.
03:53 < pnbeast> xandroid52, I'm 7.
03:53 < ayecee> storge: to me, storge is a word meaning retarded, and not a slight
03:54 < zapotah> storge: i would _never_ call such a person by any names
03:54 < zapotah> storge: they are what they are
03:54 < xandroid52> pnbeast you have awful parents you know that
03:54 < storge> well that's not the meaning of storge, but you can imagine it means whatever you want =)
03:54 < zapotah> and i _will_ respect them as they are
03:54 < ayecee> but that is the meaning
03:54 < pnbeast> xandroid52, well, someone has to teach them about sex and bad words, so they sent me to IRC to learn 'em.
03:54 < xandroid52> pnbeast sdhajkfdsjakhdka
03:55 < xandroid52> yes thats my laugh, i almost screamed, i forgot that online using upper keys means that you are screaming
03:55 < zapotah> storge: if a perfectly functional person is being stupid due to inane reasons or ignorance, i _will_ consider them in a derogatory manner
03:55 < xandroid52> *AUSTISTIC SCREECH*
03:55 < ayecee> zapotah: sure, but keep it to yourself while you're here.
03:55 < jim> storge, I hear what you're saying, and, hope your granddaughter stays happy... having said that, we've both seen instances where the word was purposely used in a mean way
03:55 < zapotah> but this has gone on long enough and off track
03:55 < zapotah> aye
03:55 < zapotah> nighty
03:56 < storge> jim: i suppose so. like when i was 8 in school and Joey called Kevin retarded. but not since then.
03:56 < jim> storge, consider yourself fortunate :)
03:56 < pnbeast> Joey always was a bad seed.
03:56 < xandroid52> who are the mods here
03:57 < pnbeast> joeyy, not you.  The one with only one 'y'.
03:57 < jim> I'm one
03:57 < diogenese> the mod squad
03:57 < storge> pnbeast: well Joey was interesting in that in 5th grade his dad was 68 years old. actual father.
03:57 < ayecee> as far as he knows
03:58 < pnbeast> jim, who are the rockers here?
03:58 < jim> xandroid52, I'm one... were you asking because you'd like some assistance?
03:59 < pnbeast> jim, whatever xandroid52 said I did, it's all lies.
03:59 < xandroid52> jim im asking bc i want to know
03:59 < rajrajraj> Dod anyone suggest me.a phone yet
03:59 < xandroid52> jim im sorry jim but we cant hide it anymore
04:00 < xandroid52> jim, me and pnbeast are doing some dirty coding, we dont know the syntax
04:01  * pnbeast looks ashamed.
04:01 < jim> the syntax is 25% per month
04:01 < storge> xandroid52: dirty coders is as dirty coders ..does
04:01 < xandroid52> i want to know something, i code in python since like...3 years ago
04:02 < jim> oh, you might like jupyter notebooks for python coding and documentation
04:03 < pnbeast> Ugh, jupyter offends my sensibilities.
04:03 < xandroid52> how do i know if im coding clean or coding dirty ?, i dont use debuggers bc im badass (thats  i lie its because im dummy), i use the default ide of python
04:03 < storge> pnbeast: we're not concerned with your sensibilities
04:03 < xandroid52> i heard good things about pycharms but i dont want to find serial key, crack, etc, im too lazy for that (in some moment i will do it), im duckdcukgoin' jupyter
04:04 < storge> why crack payware when there's likely an open source analog somewhere
04:04 < jim> xandroid52, mainly, you want to leave yourself breadcrumbs in the form of comments in your code so you can understand what you did 6 months ago, and use it now
04:05 < storge> ^
04:05 < xandroid52> jim, i have good memory, and usually use the same style on every soft i do, but comments are good
04:06 < storge> comments are good for any later human
04:06  * pnbeast hates later humans.
04:06 < Pentode> i use my comments to supplement social life
04:07 < jim> xandroid52, I dunno, sometimes I comment something that I just learned about, or something it was hard to get working (or hard to understand at first)
04:07 < storge> sometimes i write haiku
04:07 < orbi> quick question folks - if you use putty, what TERM setting do you use?  For some weird reason i can't get it to draw ansi graphics properly
04:07 < xandroid52> xandroid52 nice, same here
04:07 < xandroid52> i get confused
04:07 < xandroid52> bc im doing like 7 things at the same time, i ment to say jim, nice same here ._.
04:08 < pnbeast> orbi, I'm not sure what ANSI graphics are.  For a hundred years, if I have a term-type problem, I usually set 'em to VT100 and that usually helps.
04:08 < storge> for a hundred years you've been telling the truth
04:08 < orbi> o_O people have forgotten about ansi?
04:08 < pnbeast> I may have rounded.
04:08 < orbi> i feel so old :(
04:09 < Pentode> who else used to draw their bbs art in thedraw
04:09  * orbi gets out his 2400 bps modem and dials into his local bbs.
04:09 < orbi> Pentode: me me me :D
04:09 < Pentode> ;p
04:09 < orbi> or my first internet connection.. 28.8 using SLIP - not even PPP
04:09 < xandroid52> my first conection
04:09 < pnbeast> orbi, I have a nice 9600 that'll keep up with your typing speed in the BBS.  I will entertain reasonable offers.
04:10 < orbi> but anyway, i'm trying to configure the kernel using menuconfig and the screen drawing just looks awful
04:10 < Pentode> i used to have a slip with digex. 2400, tho a friend gave me a USR 14.4 shortly after so i didnt have to suffer _too_ much
04:11 < jim> xandroid52, anyway, you'll like linux, one of its strongest points is it's very good for coding in a fairly wide variety of languages
04:11 < orbi> Pentode: "Get off the computer i need to use the phone"
04:11 < learningc> What would be the best performance solution if I have a low-end arm embedded board (say 400 MHz single core A7) with a cmos camera and I want to stream it to a PC?  What I need is a software/package solution.
04:11 < pnbeast> jim, how about Delphi/OO-Pascal stuff?
04:11 < Pentode> i was spoiled. i just tormented my parents until the only logical solution was to get me my own phone line. :P
04:12 < xandroid52> jim, i already like linux, i just need to learn it, but at all of this, no one answered me, is it better use the most recent version of linux?, or some oldie stuff, because i have debian 9 (first package) on a dvd, and idk if use that or download debian 8 or 7 or idk...
04:12 < jim> delphi, I've never used... but I'm sure there's a pascal compiler around somewhere
04:12 < pnbeast> Pentode, awesome!  I had to hang up many times so they could call people, back in the end of the 80s.  There was no way they were getting me a line so I could "play on the computer".
04:12 < orbi> me too.. and the insatnt cable was available i bugged them till we got it.. first node in the neighborhood, took them two weeks to solve all the problems.. heheh
04:12 < Pentode> xandroid52, not too old. whatever is considered stable, at the time.
04:12 < jml2> xandroid52, most recent of "what distro" ?  A distro no longer maintained has no merit ..
04:13 < pnbeast> jim, there's also p2c.
04:13 < storge> xandroid52: debian has a repository called 'backports' that lets you run some old software but with (hopefully) security and bugfix updates
04:13 < orbi> slackware for me
04:13 < diogenese> I started with slackware too. great learning experience
04:13 < jim> xandroid52, sometimes things are working just fine, and you don't need to upgrade
04:14 < orbi> i also have a VM running 0.99.2
04:14 < xandroid52> jml2, idk, stretch i think...
04:14 < Pentode> i wound up copying all of those floppy packages on individual disks. ugh.
04:14 < orbi> born from minix.
04:14 < jim> upgrades always change something
04:14 < Psi-Jack> I started before Slackware even yet existed. SLS.
04:14 < orbi> yeah that's what i began with
04:14 < xandroid52> idk if thats a distro xD, umm and if that is not a distro when i install it, it says me that i can install xfce, interface and others that i forgot the name, xfce is cute , i like it
04:14 < orbi> 1994ish.. what a year
04:15 < Pentode> then you'd have a bad disk in the middle of the installation on the forty second disk
04:15 < orbi> but i stopped using Fedora and Cent except for work.  The reason is unpopular so i won't mention it.  But if anyone sees Lennart Poettering let me know where i can get my cricket bat
04:15 < orbi> hehehe Pentode
04:15 < jim> I had minix... pretty much all I did was rebuild its libc
04:16 < storge> Pentode: i was downloading redhat 7.3 and it was taking soooo long on dialup, that i called cheapdisk and i ordered the same cd's. i got them through the mail a couple days later before the download was done
04:16 < orbi> I started my career as a unix admin on Solaris and (*hork*) AIX
04:16 < Pentode> storge, haha
04:16 < diogenese> did you get emails from elvis after a kernel panic? I use to get those before switching to slackware. my first linux installs were done from a box of 50 floppies and I never caught the name
04:17 < learningc> xandroid52, What would you want to learn about Linux?
04:17 < jml2> orbi, this guy is bananas when people suggest linux to him over unix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HO_MXPjnqg
04:17 < orbi> i miss solaris and sparc hardware so much.. big computers should always have key locks.  it's just a shame they didn't make a "engine starting" noise when turning them to the On position
04:17 < jim> Psi-Jack, I liked how sls loaded itself into a ramdisk
04:17 < storge> debian on sparc, on a sparcstation, circa 2000. fun times
04:17 < Pentode> yeah modern machines have no soul. :(
04:17 < diogenese> irix had those long hash codes to enable apps too
04:18 < orbi> rawrite bare.i
04:18 < jim> I never actually installed it
04:18 < storge> and yellowdog linux on super old mac laptops, same time frame
04:18 < V7> Interesting
04:18 < Psi-Jack> orbi: Bah. I'm likely as old, if not older school than you, and yet I've embraced systemd because it makes things, for once, so much better, finally.
04:18 < Psi-Jack> jim: Heh. Yeah.
04:18 < V7> So, I've made it to work, but now the physical button works only when a finger is on touchpad
04:18 < jim> slackware, I did install
04:19 < orbi> Psi-Jack: you're entitled to your entirely wrong opinion. ;) ;)
04:19 < Pentode> things _were_ a mess before systemd. i don't care what the haters say, lol.
04:19 < Psi-Jack> heh
04:19 < jim> and used it for a few years, and destroyed it by replacing libc
04:19 < xandroid52> learninc lol, everything, but one of the first thing i want to learn, is what are the packages ,and aptitude, and that stuff like that
04:19 < V7> I mean, evtest tells that it catches the event, but OS doesn't send a click if button was pressed without any finger on touchpad
04:19 < V7> Is it possible to make it work wihout tocuhpad ?
04:20 < jml2> systemd is continuously evolving/improving
04:20 < Psi-Jack> I like being able to write scheduled routine tasks in a simple timer unit, and be able to see logs and have it automatically email me on any non-zero return status, without having to custom program it every single time. :)
04:20 < orbi> im a bit prejudiced because i hated when solaris did something similar with it's PID1
04:20 < jml2> a user now has ~/.config/systemd/*service things
04:20 < orbi> at least linux hasn't become like AIX yet, where you're better off doing everything through a GUI.
04:20 < storge> xandroid52: the two big spheres are debian/ubuntu with .deb, and redhat/centos/mandriva with .rpm, aside from that they are both package managers with some measure of system config and healing functions
04:20 < jim> xandroid52, aptitude is something debian uses for downloading and installing packages
04:21 < orbi> adminning AIX is not fun.  Just do everything through smit
04:21 < jml2> found out some time ago, /usr/lib/systemd/user/  can be override by the user's ~/.config/systemd/* path
04:21 < Psi-Jack> orbi: Longbow? Strongbow?
04:21 < orbi> anyway.. i'm off to sleep :/
04:21 < jml2> this is new in debian i think (i'm on stretch/sid)
04:21 < Psi-Jack> Something like that. Solaris's improved services management was impressive, but not perfect.
04:22 < xandroid52> tell me, for security and ethical hacking, is it better debian/ubuntu, or redhat/centos etc
04:23 < jim> xandroid52, opinions vary widely on that point :)
04:23 < Psi-Jack> "better" is 100% opinionated.
04:23 < storge> you can do what you want on almost any linux, was my earlier point
04:24 < xandroid52> storge yes i know, and i keep that point
04:25 < jml2> most of those kali users think they're getting the best of the bargain just because Mr Robot uses it.
04:25 < storge> i learned a lot about debian just by starting with the 100MB netinstall. there's very little to it, and you have to build things up. just selecting package groups and reading about them was educational about linux in general
04:26 < jml2> xandroid52, glad you didn't mention it XD
04:26 < jim> xandroid52, some folks like the linuxes that have package management (like the four linux dists you mentioned), others like to do everything themselves (linux from scratch, gentoo, arch)
04:27 < Psi-Jack> Gentoo and Arch both have package management.
04:27 < Psi-Jack> it's just different. :)
04:27 < Sitri> Most distros do
04:27 < Psi-Jack> LFS, itself, isn't really a distribution. It's a book.
04:28 < storge> if we're tossin advice i'd say, install debian and then install centos in virtualbox, or install centos and then install debian in virtualbox, and get experience with both spheres at the same time. and if you have space, install other distros in virtualbox. just keep one core system you can depend on, and experiment with as many others as you want. build a little home network, learn to config and scan it
04:28 < edge_hay> Hi
04:28 < edge_hay> I'm in the process of installing arch
04:28 < triceratux> cool story
04:28 < edge_hay> so at some point they just say "install a bootloader"
04:28 < jml2> xandroid52, distros use the common core utils packages... once you know your way around "apropos" and manpages you can pretty much then figure out anything..
04:28 < Pentode> god bless your heart
04:28 < edge_hay> Now I cry
04:29 < storge> triceratux: ^^
04:29 < edge_hay> How do I do that?
04:29 < jml2> xandroid52, tip:  use arch's rosetta stone page of package manager commands
04:29 < storge> edge_hay: sounds like arch
04:29 < edge_hay> Do I like use pacman?
04:29 < Psi-Jack> edge_hay: Well, you start by not hitting enter so much. Focus more, type more. Don't consider the enter key to be pauses or punctuation. :)
04:29 < xandroid52> thank you to all for the information like i said, cool community xd
04:29 < storge> xandroid52: oh jml2 has a good point: man pages. they are packed with info. they can also suck to read. learn to search man pages. the command you want first is: man man (the manual for the manual)
04:30 < jml2> xandroid52, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman/Rosetta    -- "dpkg -L <package name>"  helps to show what files/docs/manpages are related to a particular software
04:30 < xandroid52> what is a manpage
04:30 < storge> manual page
04:30 < storge> like, any command. ls for example. type into prompt: man ls
04:30 < xandroid52> oh
04:30 < edge_hay> Psi-Jack doesn't help
04:31 < jml2> xandroid52, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page
04:31 < xandroid52> thank you to all
04:31 < jml2> xandroid52, when I started Linux wikipedia and google weren't even around.. use them at your great disposal :)
04:31 < Psi-Jack> edge_hay: Well, here's an honest statement. If you cannot follow arch's installation documentation, and/or you are a linux newbie, then Arch Linux is seriously not for you.
04:31 < xandroid52> jml2 im lucky to have it, i dont use google tho
04:31 < storge> xandroid52: a few commands don't have man pages, but i think most do. but sometimes man pages can get out of date, so you can also run ls -h (in that example) which is like typing 'ls --help'
04:31 < xandroid52> but
04:32 < xandroid52> ls stands for list
04:32 < xandroid52> right?
04:32 < edge_hay> I'll try pacman -S GRUB maybe?
04:32 < storge> right
04:32 < xandroid52> i know so basic stuff
04:32 < jml2> google "manpage <name>" often goes right on target
04:32 < storge> ls is list. i was only using ls as an example.
04:32 < V7> Hey all
04:32 < xandroid52> like cd, or chmod that i dont know what exactly does , but is a cool command xd
04:32 < edge_hay> Can someone ban Psi-Jack or tell them to show respect please?
04:32 < pnbeast> V7, even me?
04:32 < jml2> xandroid52, "man intro" :)
04:32 < V7> Ofc you
04:32 < pnbeast> Yay!
04:33 < jml2> xandroid52, that'll tell you some essential basics for the core utils on any linux..
04:33 < storge> man intro, good one
04:33 < xandroid52> jml2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZw64rBswqc
04:33 < Psi-Jack> V7: "of course" not "Ofc" for future corrections on your part. Yes, it matters. :)
04:33 < xandroid52> im joking, jml2 thanks for that
04:33 < edge_hay> yay target not found
04:33 < storge> edge_hay: see, it's not just you. Psi-Jack is a rigid pedant, and god bless him for it
04:33 < Psi-Jack> edge_hay: I'm being honest and serious, not being rude or disrespectful. Arch is not user friendly, not newbie friendly.
04:33 < V7> Does anyone know how to disable feature which makes a physical left button touchpad work only when a finger is on touchpad, so it makes it's not possible to click only physical left button wtihout touching a touchpad at the same time
04:34 < V7> Psi-Jack: Oh
04:34 < V7> What could this "ofc" mean then ?
04:34 < storge> i agree, arch is neither user friendly nor newbie friendly. further, into more personal opinion, i think arch is great for its documentation and is poop from a dog butt to actually run and use.
04:34 < edge_hay> Psi-Jack I didn't come here to ask if it was user friendly. I came here to ask if someone could help me. Thank you for not being useful in any way.
04:34 < storge> i use arch docs to fix other distros a lot. same with gentoo pages (well, back then anyway)
04:34 < Psi-Jack> V7: "Officers Federation of Cuba"
04:35 < V7> oh
04:35 < V7> Thank you Psi-Jack
04:35 < Psi-Jack> edge_hay: #archlinux then. But they will tell you the same thing. Read the installation wiki.
04:35 < storge> edge_hay: i do empathize. being told simply to 'install a bootloader' is a bit abrupt and could worry up the blood.
04:36 < pnbeast> Psi-Jack, Officers Federation of Cyouba - u might confuse Cyoubans who are not native English speakers.
04:36 < Psi-Jack> pnbeast: "you"
04:36 < pnbeast> Yes, that's what I said.
04:36 < V7> storge: You just need to change some bits (512) in your MBR
04:36 < Psi-Jack> No, it's not. :)
04:36 < pnbeast> Of coyourse it is.
04:36 < storge> we're the Officers Federation of Cuba, not the Cuban Federation of Officers. Splitters!
04:37 < pnbeast> The Peoples Front of Judea!
04:37 < storge> damn them Judean Peoples' Front
04:38  * storge sigh
04:38 < paddy|> Brian? is it you?
04:38 < V7> storge: sudo dd if=/dev/sda bs=1 count=512 > mbr status=none && hexdump -C mbr
04:38 < storge> V7: tell edge_hay
04:38 < V7> So, just change this and you'll get your bootloader
04:38 < storge> V7: he was installing arch and it helpfull told him to "install a bootloader"
04:39 < edge_hay> NB: I'm installing arch on a vm
04:40 < edge_hay> Of course someone is called nb… I meant Nota Bene
04:41 < V7> Does anyone know how to change this feature when physical left click button works only when touchpad is being touched at the same moment with a different finger ?
04:42 < jml2> work with a different finger? huh?
04:42 < V7>  mean, there're touchpad and buttons, left and right, but the left button doesn't work without touching a touchpad at the same time when clicking on
04:42 < jml2> lol
04:42 < gtrmtx> hey guys, im having a problem with apache
04:42 < V7> gtrmtx: #httpd
04:42 < gtrmtx> but #httpd is completely dead
04:42 < Psi-Jack> ^
04:42 < V7> jml2: Yes, like this
04:42 < gtrmtx> i tried #httpd dead first
04:42 < V7> It just doesn't act left click without other finger on touchpad
04:43 < gtrmtx> first, dead
04:43 < Psi-Jack> It's not dead.
04:43 < gtrmtx> lol
04:43 < Psi-Jack> it's just a weekend and evening time. :)
04:43 < gtrmtx> fact!
04:43 < gtrmtx> any chance of you guys being willing to take a look at my issue?
04:44 < V7> If it's related to linux
04:44 < jml2> V7, well it is always possible to emulate the pressing of "left+right" mouse buttons to act as the missing middle mouse button...  but here you're talking about something else very different. possible though, you'll have to look into synaptic things
04:45 < gtrmtx> i mean, its on a linux server
04:45 < V7> jml2: Yes, it was working before, but it strange why it acts like that right now.
04:45 < gtrmtx> this is my setup http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=8799afe9f3ad11a8fefb7c702bff54e9
04:46 < gtrmtx> the problem is site2 is trying to resolve the private ip on the client side
04:46 < V7> gtrmtx: have you tried nginx ?
04:46 < V7> I mean, apache is good enough, but .. nginx might be better sometimes, too
04:46 < gtrmtx> V7, very little. im not familiar with it at all
04:47 < V7> Also, apache is quite old enough
04:47 < gtrmtx> i am using it in parallel for the kimchi gui thats running the qmu vm
04:47 < gtrmtx> qemu
04:47 < V7> gtrmtx: Might be that you need #networking
04:47 < gtrmtx> ill give them a shout too
04:47 < gtrmtx> thanks
04:48 < jml2> nice diagram lol
04:48 < gtrmtx> mspaint ftw haha
04:48 < jml2> there's the tool 'dia' to help you..
04:49 < rypervenche> gtrmtx: Did you try adding ReverseProxyPass (and then the same options as well)
04:49 < gtrmtx> rypervenche, i did not. do i replace the existing rule or just put it below it?
04:49  * jml2 draws a circle on www.worthmorrison.com  XD
04:50 < rypervenche> gtrmtx: Put it just below it. SHould look exactly the same, just with Reverse before the second one.
04:50 < V7> jml2: site doesn't load here
04:50 < gtrmtx> jml2, thats what i get for putting my znc bouncer on there haha
04:51 < V7> jml2: http://charlottefloydmusicstudio.com/instructors/worth-morrison is it him ?
04:52  * gtrmtx is hanging his head in doxxy shame
04:52 < jml2> digitalocean does have a lot of documentation... it's not always easy I should say for novice users
04:52 < gtrmtx> yeah thats me lol
04:52 < gtrmtx> old picture though
04:54 < jml2> gtrmtx, there's a lot of theory and know-how on trying to achieve things in that diagram...
04:56 < gtrmtx> rypervenche, what module does rpp depend on? it says its not enabled
04:56 < rypervenche> gtrmtx: mod_proxy
04:59 < gtrmtx> hmmm mod_proxy doesnt exist
05:00 < gtrmtx> proxy is enabled already
05:00 < gtrmtx> here are my mods-available http://pasteall.org/911291
05:01 < gtrmtx> and my mods-enabled http://pasteall.org/911292
05:04 < rypervenche> gtrmtx: Try a2enmod proxy and a2enmod proxy_http then restart Apache.
05:05 < gtrmtx> those are already enabled, but it wont let me restart apache while i have rpp on in an enabled conf file
05:05 < gtrmtx> hold on
05:06 < gtrmtx> a2dissite, restarted, a2ensite, reload, same error
05:07  * gtrmtx facepalms
05:07 < gtrmtx> looks like its supposed to be PPR, not RPP
05:09 < gtrmtx> that fixed the apache reload problem, but it looks like it still trying to resolve to the private address on the client side
05:20 < dunnousernamefn> I have a list of tokens, for irrelevant reasons, are seperated by '\n' (as in "\\n", not the literal newline). I want to turn the '\n' into a literal newline somehow, what is the easiest way?
05:20 < dunnousernamefn> I wasn't sure how I would use cat << EOF | sed or something
05:20 < rypervenche> dunnousernamefn: cat -ne the file probably
05:21 < jim> tokens are almost exactly what regexp was invented for
05:21 < nai> ${var@E}
05:21 < dunnousernamefn> what is so important about 'e'? lol
05:21 < dunnousernamefn> Kind of confused
05:22 < nai> dunnousernamefn: this is bash's parameter transformation with the Expand operator
05:22 < jim> dunnousernamefn, has something to do with exponents and logarithms
05:22 < dunnousernamefn> Ohhh
05:22 < nai> evaluates var as if with the $'...' syntax
05:23 < jim> if you mean the math thing that is
05:23 < rypervenche> Oops, I meant echo -ne rather
05:23 < dunnousernamefn> the `cat -ne file` just gives line- oh
05:24 < jml2> dunnousernamefn, when you type "EOF" then that is treated like an exit , you can use  cat << ABCD  or anything else..
05:24 < dunnousernamefn> I tried cat | echo but that doesn't seem to work
05:24 < nai> dunnousernamefn: where are your tokens stored? variable? file? output of a command?
05:24 < dunnousernamefn> a file, or my clipboard
05:24 < dunnousernamefn> I think I understand the echo thing now tho
05:24 < jml2> dunnousernamefn, \n is a non-print character.. doesn't make sense to call it a "literal"
05:25 < nai> "literal newline" does make sense
05:25 < jml2> dunnousernamefn, if you want to add non-print characters to a file you can also use troff
05:26 < dunnousernamefn> I basically took a bunch of excel/libreoffice cells and used the textjoin call on them to make one string; but it doesn't work with newlines, so I have a bunch of '\n' tokens
05:26 < dunnousernamefn> Which I need to turn into newline characters
05:26 < nai> dunnousernamefn: i would recommend using printf's %b format:
05:26 < nai> printf '%b\n' "$(echo 'a\nb')"
05:27 < nai> replace echo with cat your-file or whatever
05:27 < jml2> dunnousernamefn, libreoffice's program for spreadsheets is called "calc" , not excel..
05:27 < jml2> lol
05:27 < dunnousernamefn> But I thought you'd know it better :P
05:27 < gtrmtx> rypervenche, ProxyPassReverse did not work
05:27 < dunnousernamefn> Excel is more well-known and mostly compatible
05:27 < dunnousernamefn> But I guess this is ##linux lol
05:28 < gtrmtx> dunnousernamefn, every time i quickly glance at your username i think it says dundermifflin
05:28 < dunnousernamefn> that printf work
05:28 < dunnousernamefn> gtrmtx, whodat
05:28 < gtrmtx> dunnousernamefn, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386676/
05:28 < dunnousernamefn> Why does ubuntu come with an amazon link on the apps menu lol
05:29 < jml2> dunnousernamefn, because you bought ubuntu from amazon
05:30 < jml2> at least know that you are not using "excel" on Linux and instead using "Libreoffice Calc".
05:30 < dunnousernamefn> Lol, you can't buy Ubuntu Server on amazon :P (You don't wanna know my mess of an operating system)
05:30  * jml2 thinks dunnousernamefn is a troll and ignores him
05:30 < dunnousernamefn> I know it's not excel :P
05:31 < dunnousernamefn> But it is compatible with Excel so people who know the functions also know the LibreOffice functions
05:35 < GreenJello> I'm getting 'invalid argument' from systemd when trying to enable this service: https://gist.github.com/brigand/3d978922e908855872a2453552a2f50b any tips on how to debug this, or maybe you can spot the issue?
05:35 < jim> dunnousernamefn, there's also gnumeric
05:40 < jim> GreenJello, some background... "invalid argument" is a message that comes from ioctl... with ioctl(), a programmer would register a piece of code to be run when ioctl() is called with a particular integer argument, and if this registration wasn't performed for a particular integer, the ioctl() call with that particular integer would fail with "invalid argument"...
05:40 < learningc> How can I stream my webcam (from current laptop) to another pc on the same network?
05:40 < jim> GreenJello, with me so far?
05:40 < jml2> learningc, please dont tell me you're nude again
05:41 < learningc> No, I'm decently dressed. I will be more of a fashion show :)
05:41 < jim> we're always nude underneath it all
05:41 < pnbeast> I'll step up on my soapbox and proclaim that usually (but not always), people who are using tools like spreadsheets are trying to fit the problem(s) they have under their MS-derived hammer.
05:42 < pnbeast> dunnousernamefn, what is your real goal?
05:43 < learningc> jml2, Why should we be ashamed to be nude?
05:43 < jml2> learningc, cuz I'm afraid of your bits
05:43 < learningc> jml2, The first man and woman were nude
05:44 < jim> then the second man and woman invented clothes
05:44 < storge> the second couple banged the first
05:44 < storge> and presto, humanity
05:44 < pnbeast> jim, no, don't derail the ensuing religion/mythology discussion!
05:45 < jml2> johnny english strikes again.. hmm probably I'm gunna see that new one tehehe
05:45 < jim> they're on a train ?!
05:45 < pnbeast> That came many, many years later.
05:46 < GreenJello> jim, oh sorry, I missed your message. I don't follow at all
05:46 < JanC> learningc: VLC can do that
05:47 < GreenJello> jim, well, I think you're saying that it's not an "argument" in the sense of a command line argument, or one of the command in the .service file, is that right?
05:47 < JanC> (there is a reason why it's called VideoLAN)
05:48 < jim> GreenJello, ioctl() is a library call for C, and it's basically a dispatcher
05:49 < jim> GreenJello, it's an indication that the dispatcher can't dispatch to code that wasn't registered
05:49 < learningc> JanC, So on which side I need to use VLC, transmitter PC side or receiver?
05:50 < jim> GreenJello, for people who don't program in C yet, it's something below the level they can really view
05:50 < GreenJello> jim, hmm, I'm not sure what that narrows it down to. I'm seeing a lot of things about networking
05:50 < jml2> learningc, one side is the server(vlc-server mode), the other end is a separate and unrelated vlc instance on the client side
05:50 < GreenJello> for "ioctl invalid argument" on google
05:51 < jml2> learningc, you can use other clients, it doesn't have to be vlc
05:52 < learningc> jml2, I see. But I have one little problem. I don't have a screen on my server side.  Isn't vlc a gui application needing X server?
05:52 < jml2> learningc, it can run in cli mode too
05:52 < GreenJello> jim, I don't have any experience in C
05:53 < jim> GreenJello, one thing the linux kernel uses ioctl() and registering code for, is when a kernel device driver is loaded... the ioctl() registration function is called several times to add the code for whichever device it is to ioctl()
05:53 < jml2> learningc, can use --no-interact and maybe 1 or two other options
05:53 < learningc> jml2, How heavy is vlc? Actually my real purpose is to use a small embedded board as server, not a high performance pc
05:53 < jml2> learningc, there's also icecast2 ...
05:54 < jml2> learningc, cpu depends on how great the resolution is you're doing of course.
05:54 < learningc> jml2, What protocol does icecast uses?
05:54 < jim> GreenJello, so one reason you might get "invalid argument", is that a device (or other) driver kernel module has not been loaded
05:54 < jml2> learningc, and what "bit rate" you want to be streaming
05:54 < GreenJello> jim, this is on an ubuntu 16.04 server, after ssh and everything else comes online
05:55 < learningc> jml2, I want something like HD at 30 fps.  But I will start with vga format first
05:56 < GreenJello> jim, but I had some scripts running before this, messing with file descriptor limits, so I might have broke something there
05:56 < GreenJello> oddly it works fine with the default redis.service that apt-get install creates
05:56 < GreenJello> I just modified it, as I need to have two instances of redis running
05:57 < GreenJello> but currently only running one
05:57 < jim> GreenJello, a driver not being loaded, is not the only reason you might see "invalid argument"... but, it's definitely a good possibility
05:58 < GreenJello> is there any way I can get more information from it?
05:59 < jim> 'GreenJello, all of what I've said so far, is to give you an idea of one way you could get an "invalid argument" message
05:59 < GreenJello> I appreciate that; I was thinking it had to be a problem with file system permissions or something
06:00 < jim> so ok. having said all that... maybe dmesg can give you more info about why you're getting that
06:00 < jim> dmesg is a program that shows you a log
06:01 < jim> (it could happen that you need to be root to run dmesg)
06:03 < jim> GreenJello, see a couple of comments I made above
06:04 < GreenJello> there isn't much that it's showing
06:04 < GreenJello> ~500 lines total
06:05 < GreenJello> oh there are some audit lines with apparmor https://gist.github.com/brigand/747f24511a138c8344fa6a985cf55600#file-gistfile1-txt-L532
06:05 < jim> GreenJello, sometimes modules are assisted by firmware... are there any failures to load firmware?
06:06 < GreenJello> nothing that I can see
06:07 < GreenJello> reading through all of the output
06:07 < The_Dv8or> sup
06:07 < GreenJello> most of it doesn't mean anything to me
06:07 < GreenJello> also I don't think it's an issue with the server, as I've destroyed it and created a new one many times
06:08 < GreenJello> unless I got placed on the same hardware
06:09 < GreenJello> "_OSC failed (AE_NOT_FOUND); disabling ASPM" "fail to add MMCONFIG information, can't access extended PCI configuration space under this bridge."
06:10 < GreenJello> nope, that doesn't seem to be relevant
06:10 < GreenJello> it is a firmware thing though
06:12 < GreenJello> jim, I don't see anything in here that looks like an issue
06:16 < jbit> GreenJello: are you on an OpenVZ (or other container based) VPS instance?
06:16 < GreenJello> yeah, it's AWS EC2
06:16 < jim> GreenJello, well originally you said you're tryiing to start a systemd unit, and I'm not that familiar with systemd... others here might be, and they will likely need other info
06:16 < GreenJello> oh not containers, afaik
06:17 < GreenJello> at least not docker containers, which is what I think of as containers.
06:17 < jbit> what's the exact error from systemd?
06:18 < GreenJello> $ sudo systemctl enable redis-main.service
06:18 < GreenJello> Failed to execute operation: Invalid argument
06:18 < GreenJello> nothing in journalctl for that service
06:19 < GreenJello> I just took the working redis.service that apt-get install gave me, and changed 'redis' to 'redis-main' in a few places
06:19 < GreenJello> and wrote it to a new file
06:20 < GreenJello> I'll try a few more variations on the config and see if I can get it working
06:22 < jbit> GreenJello: it seems like a systemd channel, so you might try asking in #systemd and see if they have any thoughts
06:25 < GreenJello> I'll try that, thanks!
06:26 < s10gopal_> which one should i choose ? Default integrity hash algorithm   > 1. SHA1 (default) (IMA_DEFAULT_HASH_SHA1)     2. SHA256 (IMA_DEFAULT_HASH_SHA256)     3. SHA512 (IMA_DEFAULT_HASH_SHA512)      4. WP512 (IMA_DEFAULT_HASH_WP512) (NEW)
06:27 < pnbeast> s10gopal_, are we answering your quiz question?
06:28 < GreenJello> If I had to guess: echo $(( $RANDOM % 4 + 1 ))
06:32 < storge> IMA_LETYOU_FINISH
06:34 < s10gopal_> pnbeast, i am building kernel from source code and it is asking
06:42 < edge_hay> Which desktop environment should I use :/
06:42 < Pentode> xfce
06:43 < edge_hay> Looks like gnome to me
06:44 < Pentode> nonsense
06:44 < calamari> I was trying something silly where I piped the output of mpv to grep -v to get rid of some unwanted messages.. worked fine, BUT I could no longer issue keyboard commands to mpv, obviously because of the pipe. Is there any way to resore keyboard function but keep the grep?
06:44 < alexey-nemovff> edge_hay: what are your options?
06:44 < edge_hay> alexey-nemovff https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/desktop_environment
06:45 < alexey-nemovff> I was an Arch Linux users
06:46 < alexey-nemovff> user*
06:46 < edge_hay> I still like kde :/
06:46 < alexey-nemovff> so?
06:46 < alexey-nemovff> what's the problem?
06:46 < edge_hay> Not sure
06:46 < alexey-nemovff> of..
06:47 < edge_hay> The problem
06:47 < pnbeast> edge_hay, definitely TWM.
06:47 < edge_hay> meh I'll use kde
06:47 < edge_hay> twm?
06:47 < pnbeast> It's the best.
06:48 < hanetzer> alexey-nemovff: so was I. Ended up switching to gentoo :)
06:48 < nnn7> off-topic but can anyone in new zealand get me a movie on iTunes that's only available there?
06:49 < pnbeast> Yeah, off-topic and prolly against the channel rules, too...
06:49 < Pentode> http://incise.org/tinywm.html
06:50 < Pentode> there you go. all you need.
06:52 < alexey-nemovff> hanetzer: my respect
06:52 < hanetzer> alexey-nemovff: since switching I've been doing quite a lot of actual work on making gentoo better :)
06:52 < edge_hay> Pentode There is more comments than code :D
06:52 < Pentode> lol
06:53 < edge_hay> I guess I could write one then ._.
06:53 < alexey-nemovff> hanetzer: have you? how?
06:53 < hanetzer> alexey-nemovff: more work with the upstream than I ever had with any other distro. Fixing 'ebuilds'
06:53 < alexey-nemovff> cool
06:55 < alexey-nemovff> far away from my poor knowledge..
06:55 < JanC> learningc: I don't think the non-GUI versions of VLC are particularly heavy
06:55 < JanC> but there are probably even lighter solutions...
06:55 < alexey-nemovff> I don't have that time and dedication to even install gentoo
06:55 < hanetzer> alexey-nemovff: https://github.com/gentoo/gentoo/commits?author=hanetzer :D
06:56 < alexey-nemovff> xD
06:56 < JanC> I mentioned VLC because you said from a laptop, and then VLC is probably the fastest solution to set up (no need for reading documentation)
06:56 < learningc> JanC, What about gstreamer? Can it outstream videos?
06:56 < JanC> it can
06:57 < JanC> if you can find the right pipeline to use
06:57 < learningc> JanC, Which protocol does vlc use to stream out?
06:58 < JanC> not sure, it might even be able to use multiple protocols?
06:58 < JanC> vlc --help
06:59 < learningc> I need the fastest protocol available
06:59 < JanC> define "fastest"
06:59 < JanC> in general, streaming is always the same speed  ;)
06:59 < learningc> Least overhead
07:00 < JanC> the type of compression used is probably more relevant then
07:00 < learningc> But when there is compression , it's also taxing on the cpu
07:01 < sanroot> hi,my  adb via usb didn't works in mint :) but in other desto it works why ?4
07:01 < learningc> JanC, Ultimately I will use a small embedded board for the server side like arduino
07:01 < JanC> I guess RTP or similar are quite efficient
07:01 < JanC> an ARM-based arduino then, I hope
07:01 < hanetzer> sanroot: prolly perms.
07:02 < sanroot> hanetzer:?
07:02 < JanC> because the original Arduino definitely can't stream video
07:02 < hanetzer> sanroot: as in, other distros prolly put you into a group which had permissions to access the usb device node or sommat.
07:02 < learningc> JanC, I guess so, something that can run linux and cheap (in the $10 range)
07:03 < sanroot> hanetzer:is prolly is like chmod ? can u explain a little
07:04 < hanetzer> sanroot: check the differences between the command 'id' on this distro vs another one
07:05 < sanroot> hanetzer:ok
07:07 < Psi-Jack> sanroot: "you" not "u" for future self corrections. It matters.
07:07 < Psi-Jack> JanC: If you're going for small and ARM-based, might as well go with something like the RPi or OrangePi.
07:08 < sanroot> Psi-Jack:ok i will take care of it ..
07:09 < Exaeta-mobile> Anyone else getting crashes with nvidia gtx 1080 or ryzen 1600x?\
07:09 < Psi-Jack> Exaeta-mobile: Don't ask to ask.
07:09 < Exaeta-mobile> My pc started crashing a lot lately.
07:10 < Psi-Jack> Lately? What's changed lately?
07:10 < Exaeta-mobile> Um well it's a new ish pc. I just installed new thermal paste and did updates at the same time as well... so I'm not sure if it's a hw or sw problem :/
07:11 < iflema> heat
07:11 < Exaeta-mobile> another thing
07:12 < Exaeta-mobile> ryzen cpu temperature does not show up in "sensors" command
07:12 < Exaeta-mobile> but shows in my bios... however... it was working fine before?
07:12 < Exaeta-mobile> i.e. temps never showed but no crashes
07:12 < Psi-Jack> What distro?
07:13 < Exaeta-mobile> Linux Mint 18.3 Mate
07:13 < hanetzer> Exaeta-mobile: kernel version?
07:13 < Psi-Jack> Oh, you mean temperature never showed before or after updates?
07:13 < edge_hay> Mate?
07:13 < edge_hay> Sorry. Not relevant.
07:13 < Exaeta-mobile> Psi-Jack: never showed at any point
07:13 < hanetzer> Psi-Jack: ryzen internal temperature sensor requires a fairly recent kernel
07:13 < Psi-Jack> Yep.
07:13 < Exaeta-mobile> Also sometimes the PC shuts off and sometimes it just freezes
07:14 < Psi-Jack> Which Ubuntu doesn't yet provide. heh
07:14 < learningc> Psi-Jack, I want to go even smaller
07:14 < hanetzer> Exaeta-mobile: mobo?
07:14 < Exaeta-mobile> graphics don't respond
07:14 < Psi-Jack> learningc: RPi Zero.
07:14 < Psi-Jack> OrangePi Zero, too. :)
07:14 < Exaeta-mobile> AB350 PRO4
07:14 < Psi-Jack> Exaeta-mobile: That sounds like thermal issues.
07:15 < learningc> Psi-Jack, What about the blueberry pi?
07:15 < hanetzer> Exaeta-mobile: opcache control option in bios?
07:15 < Psi-Jack> Start there, re-do the thermal stuff, and do it right this time. )
07:15 < Exaeta-mobile> Psi-Jack: I have a water cooler, and i used ic diamond
07:15 < Psi-Jack> And?
07:16 < Exaeta-mobile> hanetzer: I did messs with that but I turned it back off iirc
07:16 < Exaeta-mobile> Is that a known issue?
07:16 < learningc> Psi-Jack, have you streamed video off raspberry pi?
07:17 < Psi-Jack> learningc: I stream several home surveillance cameras off a single RPi.
07:17 < Exaeta-mobile> Psi-Jack: how tight should the cooling block be on the cpu?
07:17 < learningc> Psi-Jack, what software/protocol do you use?
07:17 < Psi-Jack> Exaeta-mobile: Snug.
07:17 < hanetzer> Exaeta-mobile: its a thing that was once floated as a fix. as tight as the docs should be.
07:17 < hanetzer> Exaeta-mobile: also, you prolly wanna update your bios as much as possible.
07:18 < Exaeta-mobile> I checked for bios updates, there were none
07:18 < Exaeta-mobile> memtest hasn't crashed yet
07:19 < Psi-Jack> How long has memtest been running?
07:19 < Psi-Jack> And how much RAM?
07:19 < Exaeta-mobile> 15 minutes. 64 GiB
07:19 < Psi-Jack> heh
07:19 < Psi-Jack> 64? You'd need to run that for about 3~4 days to get a full accurate test.
07:20 < Exaeta-mobile> I inported ram from taiwan so I'm suspicious of the ram now... and the cpu... and my refurbished power supply, and fucking nvidia drivers :/
07:20 < Psi-Jack> What would be better to run is cpuburn, or similarand see if it shuts down like it has before.
07:20 < Psi-Jack> Ahem..
07:20 < hanetzer> CPU~8 core AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Eight-Core (-MT-MCP-) speed/max~2544/3000 MHz Kernel~4.15.14-gentoo x86_64 Up~4 days Mem~8189.9/64421.4MB HDD~1740.4GB(32.8% used) Procs~303 Client~WeeChat 2.1  inxi~2.3.55
07:20 < Psi-Jack> Mind the language, please.
07:20 < hanetzer> :)
07:22 < Exaeta-mobile> How would one check the power supply vs thermal issues?
07:22 < Psi-Jack> Does it power on?
07:22 < Exaeta-mobile> yes
07:22 < Psi-Jack> Well, there you go. :)
07:22 < Exaeta-mobile> lol
07:23 < Exaeta-mobile> what if the power supply fails at high load?
07:23 < Psi-Jack> They make PSU testers.
07:23 < Exaeta-mobile> Can I get those at micro center?
07:23 < Psi-Jack> As long as they provide the appropriate outputs for 5V and 3.3V, then they won't change under load. They just supply power.
07:23 < Psi-Jack> micro center?
07:24 < Psi-Jack> A tiny place
07:24 < hanetzer> Psi-Jack: computer shop thingus.
07:24 < Psi-Jack> Heh.
07:24 < Psi-Jack> Sounds like a tiny place. :)
07:24 < Exaeta-mobile> cheapest place to buy cpus and things
07:24 < Psi-Jack> Exaeta-mobile: If it's a computer shop, or electronics shop, possibly. Not always.
07:25 < Exaeta-mobile> it's basically the cheapest... it's a computer part store... and usually has better deals than newegg
07:25 < Psi-Jack> Basically you end up unplugging the PSU from the mobo, and attaching the tester to all the main cables, and it tests it.
07:26 < Psi-Jack> You can also, like I said, use a tool like cpuburn or stress-ng, and see what heavy load (CPU, not PSU), does to it.
07:27 < Exaeta-mobile> Crashes in my os were very frequent
07:27 < Psi-Jack> With the hardware level auto-shut off, you should be safe from damage.. Since you have said it's shut itself off before.
07:27 < Exaeta-mobile> like, I could work for like 2-5 minutes
07:27 < Exaeta-mobile> then freeze or shutdown
07:27 < Psi-Jack> Definitely sounds like hardware.
07:28 < Psi-Jack> I'd point my finger at that. And not likely PSU, but CPU, likely thermal.
07:28 < Psi-Jack> Why did you re-thermal paste anyway?
07:29 < hanetzer> eh... I had a similar issue for my machine... once I got the ram clocked to 2666 and gcc-7.3.0/binutils-2.30 it seems to have stopped :)
07:29 < Exaeta-mobile> Psi-Jack: I was thinking my cpu might be thermal throttling
07:29 < hanetzer> also a very new kernel.
07:29 < Exaeta-mobile> hanetzer: I upgraded my kernel, what version worked for you?
07:30 < Psi-Jack> Exaeta-mobile: What kernel version ?
07:30 < Exaeta-mobile> not sure I'm still stuck in memtest
07:30 < hanetzer> Exaeta-mobile: I'm currently on 4.15.14, but I think it was good around 4.13 or so
07:30 < Psi-Jack> Like I said, that'll take 3~4 days. :p
07:30 < Psi-Jack> YOu would be better off with a hardware memory tester. heh
07:30 < Exaeta-mobile> It's 56% done already
07:31 < Exaeta-mobile> 6-core simultaneous testing :)
07:31 < Psi-Jack> Exaeta-mobile: On this pass.... You need to let it run many passes.
07:31 < Psi-Jack> Which for 64GB will take several days to get an accurate test. :)
07:31 < Exaeta-mobile> Psi-Jack: really?
07:31 < Psi-Jack> That's what I keep saying.
07:32 < Exaeta-mobile> well, it's probably not the cause of my crashes right?
07:32 < hanetzer> yep. gotta get the right amounts of stellar rays to twiddle bits
07:32 < hanetzer> :P
07:32 < Psi-Jack> Memory is a good possible cause, however, not the only possible cause.
07:33 < Psi-Jack> Since you recently re-did the thermal stuff, I'm betting you did something wrong there.
07:33 < Psi-Jack> 2~5 minutes is serious. ;)
07:33 < Exaeta-mobile> I put more on than before and made sure to cover the whole die this time. :/
07:33 < Psi-Jack> More? No!
07:34 < Psi-Jack> Thermal paste needs a VERY THIN layer. Not more.
07:34 < Exaeta-mobile> yeah well the diamond stuff is viscous and wont spread :/
07:35 < hanetzer> rice grain. let the cpu heatsink spread it when cranking it down ;)
07:35 < Psi-Jack> Heh, that stuff is sounding mroe and more like crap.
07:35 < Psi-Jack> Arctic Silver.
07:35 < Psi-Jack> Never use anything but that.
07:35 < hanetzer> aye, good stuff, that.
07:35 < diogenese> it's good
07:35 < Exaeta-mobile> it's supposedly better than arctic silver
07:35 < klock> 'supposedly'
07:35 < Exaeta-mobile> maybe harder to apply?
07:35 < Exaeta-mobile> i guess
07:36 < Psi-Jack> I go with what's proven.
07:36 < klock> if it ain't broke
07:36 < Psi-Jack> Not with /suppositions/ that has not been proven.
07:36 < Psi-Jack> Diamond.... Is not a good thermal carrier, either..
07:37 < Exaeta-mobile> it is?
07:37 < pnbeast> I recommend Brylcreem for valuable CPUs.  That arctic silver stuff is for x86 toys.
07:37 < Exaeta-mobile> it has very high thermal conductivity
07:38 < Psi-Jack> pnbeast: Heh. Brylcreem is good, sure, but I have Arctic Silver on my desktop and all my servers, and have had the same paste thats' been there for years, still doing their job perfectly
07:38 < Exaeta-mobile> I'll buy some less viscous thermal paste tomorrow... diamond might be a bit hard to apply correctly
07:39 < hanetzer> Exaeta-mobile: point is, don't spread it yourself. dot in the middle, ricegrain or so sized, attach the cpu cooler and let the screws/latches/whatever's force spread it
07:42 < Exaeta-mobile> hanetzer: Well after I watched this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r2MEAnZ3swQ I thought it didn't matter much
07:42 < hanetzer> Exaeta-mobile: mattered enough that you thought you had to add more ;)
07:42 < jmadero> is there a single command line that I can put in to remove the first 3 characters of every file in a specific directory?
07:43 < rumpel> jmadero, sure: 'rename' + regex magic
07:43 < Exaeta-mobile> hanetzer: they showed that the only way to cause problems was "too little" and "too much" didn't do much if anything
07:44 < lordvadr_> jmadero: for f in *; do mv $f ${f:3}; done
07:44 < Exaeta-mobile> skip to 5:50
07:44 < jmadero> lordvadr: thanks
07:44 < lordvadr> jmadero: that only works if you don't have spaces in filenames.
07:44 < rumpel> jmadero, or [rename -n 's/^.{3}//' *]
07:45 < jmadero> finally set up my own music server and I see that google adds a bunch of crap to file names when you download :(
07:45 < hanetzer> jmadero: prolly doing something wrong, then.
07:45 < hanetzer> rumpel: nice trick, that :)
07:45 < lordvadr> jmadero: for f in *; do mv "${f}" "${f:3}"; done
07:45 < hanetzer> hehe...
07:45 < jmadero> it's actually more than 3 - every file name added this "00 - " to the beginning
07:46 < jmadero> so it's 00[space]-[space]
07:46 < rumpel> jmadero, the "-n" allows to first check, if everything will work as expected. If so, remove it and it will be executed.
07:46 < hanetzer> jmadero: rename 's:00 - ::' *.ext
07:46 < hanetzer> or perl-rename, depending on how your distro packages it
07:46 < rumpel> jmadero, be aware, that it can be quite hard to reverse something like that.
07:47 < jmadero> is rename the only one that would account for spaces?
07:47 < hanetzer> dunno, but its what I typically use.
07:48 < jmadero> so [rename -n 's/^.{5}//' *] would do the trick for me?
07:48 < hanetzer> jmadero: I'd use rename 's:00 - ::', more explicit on what its chopping off instead of N characters
07:50 < jmadero> hm rename 's:00 - ::' *.ext that did not work
07:50 < hanetzer> jmadero: 'ext' here means like *.ogg or whatever
07:50 < sauvin> jmadero, what distro are you using?
07:50 < jmadero> yeah I did rename 's:00 - ::' *.mp3
07:50 < jmadero> Ubuntu 17.10
07:51 < jmadero> a derivative at least
07:51 < hanetzer> try 'perl-rename' instead, mayhaps.
07:52 < jmadero> thanks all - got it working
07:54 < jmadero> running subsonic on a RPi 3 is surprisingly stable
07:58 < Psi-Jack> Well, yeah.
07:58 < Exaeta-mobile> Aand the ram failed memtest woo :/
08:00 < Exaeta-mobile> So... anyone know how to tell which ramstick is bad from memtest errors?
08:01 < Psi-Jack> Lick 'em.
08:02 < Exaeta-mobile> https://s7.postimg.org/8xxug4wq3/IMG_20180407_020111.jpg
08:02 < Exaeta-mobile> I could retest with 1 ramstick at a time
08:06 < Exaeta-mobile> that couldn't be a thermal issue right?
08:06 < Exaeta-mobile> it should shut down
08:06 < Sitri> Sometimes ramsticks are just bad
08:07 < Sitri> I got a pair that was so bad the system couldn't post.  I just contacted newegg and went through the RMA process.
08:07 < pnbeast> It's the environment they grow in.  They don't start out bad.
08:07 < Exaeta-mobile> I have 4 ramsticks... I donno which one(s) is/are bad tho. :/
08:07 < Sitri> Then test one at a time.
08:08 < Sitri> That's what you have to do
08:08 < Sitri> Just be glad you can actually run memtest.  Some operating systems don't even ship with a means to do that
08:33 < Exaeta> Well I upgraded to a new kernel and changed the ram timings to be a bit more lenient and the system seems stable. humm
08:37 < jim> how did you alter the ram settings?
08:41 < pnbeast> jim, in the spring time, you push the RAM timing ahead one hour.  In the fall, you push it back one hour.  In the old days, we usually did it during the maintenance window, but nowadays NTP does it automatically.
08:51 < pnbeast> In Arizona and parts of Indiana, it's impossible to overclock your computer because they have no Daylight Savings Time.
08:55 < spammcoin> indianer?
08:59 < alexey-nemovff> hi folks
09:05 < edd_lc> hi hi
09:06 < mynameisdebian> I have a VPS that I occasionally log into with RDP and SSH.  There is an XFCE desktop installed that I can access over RDP.  When I log out and log back in with RDP I see the same desktop up, so I assume that means the desktop is always running.  I use Selenium to automate Firefox, and I would like Firefox to run on this desktop that is always up.  Is there a way to do this?
09:07 < CrazyTux> is MX 17 as stable and bugfree as Debian 9?
09:07 < mynameisdebian> Highly unlikely
09:08 < CrazyTux> what could be the reason for random freezing on some linux distros?
09:09 < Dagmar> Bad video drivers, unstable hardware, idiot compiled the kernel... lots of reasons
09:09 < mynameisdebian> bugs and incompatibilities between different utilities, or hardware problems on your computer
09:09 < CrazyTux> I have used several distros. Some don't have this issue on the same hardware while some have this random freezing issue.
09:09 < Dagmar> It's unlikely userspace tools could crash the machine
09:09 < mynameisdebian> It sounds like you may have a hardware issue
09:09 < Dagmar> That's literally one of the things the kernel is meant to prevent happening
09:10 < CrazyTux> with distros like OpenSuse Leap, Mageia 6, I never experienced this. But, even on Ubuntu Mate LTS, MX 17 I had occasional freezing of the OS.
09:11 < lukey> mynameisdebian: You could also use Xvfb
09:11 < CrazyTux> please note, hardware is the same.
09:11 < Dagmar> Feel free to use the distro that doesn't crash then
09:11 < mynameisdebian> Dagmar: Try some better-known distros like Ubuntu and Debian.  If they have the same issue it is very very likely that you have a hardware issue.  If other distros didn't have the same issue for you it may just mean that the hardware issue didn't come into play during the limited time that you used the OSes.
09:12 < mynameisdebian> whoops
09:12 < CrazyTux> mynameisdebian, but, MX Linux is based on Debian stable.
09:12 < mynameisdebian> not addressed to dagmar
09:12 < mynameisdebian> CrazyTux: Try some better-known distros like Ubuntu and Debian.  If they have the same issue it is very very likely that you have a hardware issue.  If other distros didn't have the same issue for you it may just mean that the hardware issue didn't come into play during the limited time that you used the OSes.
09:12 < Dagmar> I should say so.  My sh*t runs like a top.
09:12 < mynameisdebian> CrazyTux: Anyone can take Debian stable and f*ck it up
09:13 < CrazyTux> mynameisdebian, I have used OpenSuse Leap and Mageia 6 for more than two months at least.
09:13 < KnightsOfNi> How do I make /public_html point to a different folder?
09:13 < mynameisdebian> lukey:  Is there any other way besides Xvfb?
09:15 < Dagmar> KnightsOfNi: It's actually something you can set in the httpd.conf
09:15 < mynameisdebian> KnightsOfNi: rmdir /public_html; ln -s different_folder /public_html
09:15 < lukey> mynameisdebian: Or you could add an Autostart entry in "Session and Startup"
09:16 < mynameisdebian> lukey: where can I find that?
09:17 < lukey> mynameisdebian: Start->Settings->Session and Startup
09:17 < mynameisdebian> lukey: Dagmar's solution is better
09:17 < mynameisdebian> whoops not lukey
09:17 < mynameisdebian> lol
09:17 < KnightsOfNi> mynameisdebian: why does public_html have to be removed first?
09:17 < edge_hay> I just installed reactos
09:18 < avis> howdy
09:18 < avis> how is it ?
09:18 < edge_hay> So fat it's running faster than windows and I still haven't had any errors
09:18 < edge_hay> Hi avis
09:18 < mynameisdebian> KnightsOfNi: Dagmar's solution is better because it is more specific to your situation.  You don't have to remove it, you could rename it.
09:18 < avis> is reactos cool ?
09:18 < edge_hay> It's in alpha
09:18 < avis> we're alive !!!  let's pizza party !!!
09:18 < edge_hay> And it's more stable than any release version of windows.
09:19 < mynameisdebian> KnightsOfNi: mv -f /public_html /public_html.bak; ln -s different_folder /public_html
09:19 < edge_hay> I mean I'm stunned.
09:19 < edge_hay> I don't need xp to play solitaire anymore. They have that and it's just so much smoother
09:19 < mynameisdebian> edge_hay: that's not saying much.  Any version of Linux should be reasonably stable, definitely moreso than any recent version of Windows
09:20 < avis> i believe reactos is cool.  i have seen Windows Neon and that is i think reactos based windows that is hybrid open and hybrid legal USA washington law.
09:20 < edge_hay> Yeah but it's technically not linux
09:20 < KnightsOfNi> Windows is cancer
09:20 < mynameisdebian> omg what is happening to this room
09:20 < avis> even windows 2000 and xp ?
09:20 < Psi-Jack> avis: Yes
09:20 < Psi-Jack> mynameisdebian: Channel.
09:20 < edge_hay> It's an open source alternative to windows
09:20 < mynameisdebian> lukey: thanks, I will check it out
09:20 < mynameisdebian> Psi-Jack: thanks
09:20 < KnightsOfNi> Windows is a piece of trash
09:21 < edge_hay> idk if it's linux. It doesn't have the file system or the kernel but it's open source and stable
09:21 < edge_hay> So yeah it's linux I guess
09:21 < avis> is unix ok ?  i want to make sure i still within channel rules to be a helper of someone who runs bash console
09:21 < edge_hay> unix? :/
09:22 < Psi-Jack> edge_hay: ReactOS is not Linux.
09:22 < edge_hay> Why not?
09:22 < jim> some people have to run windows... maybe it's not that good, but please refrain from triggering people who have to run it
09:22 < avis> free i assume. i think its something like opensolaris, as long as that runs part linux, i'm ok in here i think
09:22 < Psi-Jack> edge_hay: Because it's not Linux.
09:22 < alexey-nemovff> reactos still Winbugs
09:22 < edge_hay> RNL
09:22 < edge_hay> react is not linux
09:23 < Psi-Jack> Linux is a kernel. ReactOS does not use the Linux kernel.
09:23 < avis> you think Psi /  you think reactos non-linux ????
09:23 < Psi-Jack> Pretty simple that. :)
09:23 < Psi-Jack> avis: No, I know it's not.
09:24 < avis> i support the right to computer and linux 100%.
09:24 < mynameisdebian> I just checked it out (new to me).  It looks pretty cool.  I'm not sure it's Linux at all.  It seems to be built from the ground up with a Windows design.
09:25 < Psi-Jack> mynameisdebian: Exactly, completely from scratch.
09:25 < mynameisdebian> I think it could be a legitimate Linux competitor if it stays open source and nonprofit, not at all in the way that Mozilla pretends to be a nonprofit
09:25 < Psi-Jack> I doubt it.
09:25 < Psi-Jack> It's been around for several years, and still hasn't gotten off the ground. lol
09:26 < mynameisdebian> Mozilla being the biggest scam in computing history
09:26 < Psi-Jack> wut?
09:27 < mateothegreat> someone is hatin'
09:28 < mynameisdebian> Yeah Firefox is just spyware.  They force updates on you.  People have been complaining about it for over 10 years, but the official reply is always some instructions on disabling the auto-updater, but of course this cannot actually be disabled.
09:28 < atoy> Ok got disconnected.
09:28 < CrazyTux> is OpenSuse Leap more stable as compared to Ubuntu LTS?
09:28 < Psi-Jack> Uh.. Okay...
09:28 < alexey-nemovff>  mateothegreat: hating who?
09:28 < mynameisdebian> I downgraded to 47 and disabled auto-update, but a month later they got me
09:29 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: TIAS
09:29 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, what's "TIAS"?
09:29 < lukey> mynameisdebian: I switched to palemoon
09:29 < alexey-nemovff> I've been using Waterfox.. much better and faster
09:29 < mynameisdebian> now I have plugin-container.exe taking up 500M+ memory every time I open Firefox.  Mozilla's official response is that this is a necessary tool (which can't be disabled in any way btw) to keep plugins separate from the OS.  I tested this by disabling all plugins.  I still have 30% CPU utilization and 500M+ memory every time I open my browser
09:30 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: A very commonly used acronym. You really don't know?
09:30 < sauvin> No, I don't.
09:30 < Psi-Jack> mynameisdebian: You can stop now. :)
09:30 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: It's "Try It And See"
09:31 < sauvin> Ah. Thanks.
09:31 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, I just want the OS not to freeze randomly when I am in the middle of some work.
09:31 < alexey-nemovff> Waterfox doesn't have that telemetry crap and other stuff
09:31 < alexey-nemovff> from Firefox
09:31 < CrazyTux> Thought MX linux and Ubuntu LTS are stable.
09:31 < mynameisdebian> Psi-Jack: If someone does with browsers what ReactOS tried to do for the OS, I will definitely never use Firefox again.  It is well-known (per Snowden) that MS and Google partner with the NSA to include backdoors in their software.  I don't doubt Mozilla is doing the same thing
09:32 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: Ahhh, After all these years you finally actually got around to installing Linux?
09:32 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, in fact I have tried several distros.
09:32 < Psi-Jack> mynameisdebian: That's nice. Move along now. I don't personally use Firefox, because, it... Is simply insecure. They didn't even get into pwn2own last year because it's too boringly easy to do.
09:32 < Disconsented> mynameisdebian> Maybe its time to put your hamster to rest
09:33 < junka> Psi-Jack; so what do you use if you dont mind me asking
09:34 < Psi-Jack> I use Chrome.
09:34 < alexey-nemovff> worst
09:36 < Psi-Jack> Well, Chrome remains a strong winner in pwn2own, and Google Project Zero does a lot for the security world.
09:37 < junka> cant argue that
09:37 < Psi-Jack> Results shows strongly. :)
09:38 < Psi-Jack> Especially with high value cash prizes for succeeding. :)
09:38 < Psi-Jack> Hence why Firefox.... Was /not/ in the 2017 pwn2own. They'd have paid out dearly. :)
09:40 < alexey-nemovff> Psi-Jack: it's in Spanish but I'm sure you can translate it; https://es.rt.com/5qes
09:40 < Psi-Jack> I've already debunked everything about this page in just the header: Una función del antivirus
09:41 < Psi-Jack> heh
09:42 < alexey-nemovff> Psi-Jack: please explain
09:43 < hexnewbie> Even if you put the security aside, it doesn't help that Firefox got rid of all features that made it in any way distinguishable from Chrome, and is currently a bad insecure imitation of Chrome.
09:43 < Psi-Jack> No need. That particular page has nothing to do with Linux.
09:44 < CrazyTux> is KDE the most advanced DE available now?
09:44 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: Still asking highly opinionated questions?
09:44 < hexnewbie> I was trying to find a fix as Firefox can no longer open my 500 saved web pages. Turns out I can do it much simpler with Chrome and Bash.
09:45 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, no.
09:45 < Psi-Jack> hexnewbie: What's scarey is the new Firefox Quantum.... Uses MORE memory than Chrome, which is rather insane.
09:45 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: Yes, Yes you are.
09:46 < cnrhkiyf> As long it is not using MORE than I have installed
09:46 < cnrhkiyf> Memomory is useless if it is not being used
09:46 < KnightsOfNi> Psi-Jack: Is it? Memory SHOULD be used
09:46 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, just thought KDE could be the most suitable DE for newbies.
09:47 < cnrhkiyf> And for the security concerns: Do you really think google is doing as much as they could for OUR security?
09:47 < cnrhkiyf> I dont think so
09:47 < cnrhkiyf> And you can't proof the oppostie
09:47 < Psi-Jack> KnightsOfNi: It uses it. Heavily, and doesn't give it back when it could.
09:47 < cnrhkiyf> No it is not
09:48 < hexnewbie> Browsers have no considerations for memory, it seems. You have your QEMU virtual machines, and then Firefox, and then Chrome.
09:48 < KnightsOfNi> It  should use memory, so it can perform
09:48 < junka> CrazyTux; stop being a baby and make your own decisions
09:48 < hexnewbie> Depending on the virtual machines, or web sites, browsers may even come first
09:48 < Psi-Jack> cnrhkiyf: Have you seen what all Google Project Zero has done, and all the security that Google does with Chrome. Including pushing Symantec down to the ground for multiple major CA violations?
09:49 < cnrhkiyf> Yes I did but for me that is just propaganda
09:49 < cnrhkiyf> For them this is peanuts
09:49 < cnrhkiyf> To show the world how goood they are
09:49 < cnrhkiyf> :D
09:49 < cnrhkiyf> DONT BE EVIL
09:49 < cnrhkiyf> lol
09:49 < hexnewbie> Hint: Project Zero were the ones who found Meltdown and Spectre.
09:49 < alexey-nemovff> I erased and cut off all my connections with Skynet.. I meant Google, after one day I discovered all voice commands I spoke through my car's commands
09:49 < cnrhkiyf> WOW and now?
09:49 < cnrhkiyf> the found spectre and meltdown
09:49 < Psi-Jack> You seem to lack the understanding of what "Propoganda" actually is.
09:50 < cnrhkiyf> they could not be evil
09:50 < Spookan> Psi-Jack: Can you use chrome without google knowing what you do and so on?
09:50 < s10gopal> peetaur2, ring ring
09:50 < cnrhkiyf> no I do not lack of understanding
09:50 < Disconsented> There was one person with GPZ involved with the inital meltdown/specter research
09:50 < junka> alexey-nemovff; have you done sex in your car? :p
09:50 < cnrhkiyf> and you don't have to become personal just because you have no arguments
09:50 < Psi-Jack> Spookan: Absolutely,.
09:52 < Spookan> Psi-Jack: Cool, then im gonna look into it. Firefox always chrashes on me..
09:52 < s10gopal> peetaur2, i fixed slow kernel build by using "scripts/config --disable DEBUG_INFO" ,  but it was written in blog a blog , can you please tell me how the blogger came to know about the issue ?
09:52 < s10gopal> how to approach to solve these type of problems
09:53 < junka> are you the user who tries to build his own kernel?
09:53 < alexey-nemovff> junka: noup, but my (digital) privacy matter a lot to me
09:54 < alexey-nemovff> matters*
09:55 < junka> privacy matter on the www
09:56 < alexey-nemovff> and I protect it as much as possible
09:56 < cnrhkiyf> google will save our privacy didn't you hear?
09:56 < junka> yeah but the kernel comment was to s10gopal
09:56 < alexey-nemovff> haha
09:56 < alive876> hi all, i have recently installed the steam interface on my linux system, but when i try to install a game it says i dont have enough memory. any help appreciated.
09:56 < Psi-Jack> alexey-nemovff: Does it? Pull the plug now. Cause just being on the internet violates your "digital privacy".
09:56 < Psi-Jack> :p
09:57 < s10gopal> junka, yes
09:57 < junka> Psi-Jack; you take em down one by one dont u
09:57 < sauvin> junka, "you", not "u".
09:57 < alexey-nemovff> that's why I have several methods to navigate
09:57 < junka> /s/u/you/
09:57 < cnrhkiyf> Yeah he is the google IRC police
09:57 < cnrhkiyf> with grammar control
09:59 < Psi-Jack> You also don't seem to know what "grammar" is. :)
09:59 < alexey-nemovff> lol
09:59 < hexnewbie> Chrome's privacy defaults could use some work, and the fact that suspicious web site whatchamacallit is checked online instead of using a local list like Firefox did at the time was concerning. But that's kind of.... Your last problem right now.
10:00 < hexnewbie> Editing 5 settings isn't difficult.
10:01 < tsakos> Did you know that Google knows your usernames on other websites, too?
10:01 < tsakos> Well, this "I don't care about privacy" is false in my opinion.
10:02 < junka> tsakos; no i don't. Source please?
10:02 < cnrhkiyf> As long as you know everything what all other people don't :D
10:02 < tsakos> Chrome is the rootkit in your everyday life.
10:02 < hexnewbie> tsakos: s/Chrome/modern Web/
10:02 < tsakos> junka: Just use a network sniffer. You will soon see happen it sooner or later.
10:02 < Psi-Jack> tsakos: Exactly. Use a network sniffer. You'll see that everything you're saying is bogus fud.
10:02 < junka> see what? my usernames or internet traffic?
10:03 < hexnewbie> tsakos: It seems that you have ran that sniffer, pastebin the dump you got.
10:03 < alexey-nemovff> tsakos: usernames from where?
10:03 < tsakos> Psi-Jack: No, it is not.
10:03 < Psi-Jack> Yes, it is.
10:03 < junka> cause i use a browser for navigating the www
10:03 < acresearch> people i do not have convert installed in my linux, how can i reduce the size of an image?
10:03 < s10gopal> how to check on which commit i am on in git bisect ?
10:04 < hexnewbie> acresearch: Install imagemagick? Or use GIMP?
10:04 < tsakos> alexey-nemovff: From a sensitive website..
10:04 < hexnewbie> Or use Krita - the only Calligra Suite program that doesn't suck ;)
10:04 < tsakos> Well, it happens. Maybe I am the interesting guy for them.
10:04  * sauvin can testify that krita is pretty nice
10:05 < junka> tsakos; maybe you are Jesus
10:05 < tsakos> junka: Maybe you work for Google xD
10:05 < acresearch> hexnewbie: i have antergos and it is failing to install from pacman (failed retrieving file)
10:05 < hexnewbie> tsakos: So your only evidence and details you have on your extraordinary claim is that ‘it happens’?
10:06 < tsakos> hexnewbie: Just run a network sniffer and see for yourself.
10:06 < junka> tsakos; I wish
10:06 < tsakos> This is why Chrome was developed in the first place. To monitor people. No?
10:06 < tsakos> This is also the reason Android was developed. No?
10:06 < Psi-Jack> tsakos: No,
10:06 < junka> tsakos; your statement is sooooo wow
10:07 < sauvin> Thinking somebody needs to be more blue pills.
10:07 < Psi-Jack> heh
10:07 < hexnewbie> tsakos: Even if it was up to me to debunk your claim by running a sniffer myself, you haven't given any details that would help reproducability
10:07 < sauvin> s/ be / be taking /;
10:07 < tsakos> hexnewbie: I can't give any more details. They are looking for sensitive information about everyone.
10:07 < junka> hexnewbie; I bet he has never done it himself. He just reproduces a claim he read xD
10:08 < tsakos> junka: No
10:08 < hexnewbie> Yeah, details cannot usually be given for false claims :p
10:08 < tsakos> Yeah, true.
10:08 < tsakos> Keep using Chrome.
10:09 < tsakos> They probably know more than you already know about you.
10:10 < Psi-Jack> tsakos: Are you done?
10:10 < THX1338> tsakos: And about android, did you has some link related to "the reason android was developed"?
10:10 < sauvin> tsakos, anybody can claim he's seen the ghosts of Nazis dancing on streetcorner soapboxes wearing pink tutus and Army boots with peace symbols where their swastikas should have been. Most people won't believe it until you can produce some kind of supporting evidence.
10:10 < THX1338> Any research?
10:10 < tsakos> https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity
10:10 < tsakos> Check this out, if you haven't already.
10:11 < THX1338> That isn't about android
10:11 < THX1338> this is about google accounts
10:11 < tsakos> And see all the magic in front of your eyes/
10:11 < junka> this isnt about chrome either
10:11 < tsakos> Really?
10:11 < NDx33xsy> hi)
10:11 < tsakos> I'm 1000% sure that they get a lot more data that aren't shown anywhere.
10:11 < THX1338> Ya, you think android by default will leak your data?
10:12 < hexnewbie> tsakos: Using Google's cloud services ≠ using Chrome.
10:12 < tsakos> THX1338: It doesn't leak data. It only leaks data to Google and partners.
10:12 < hexnewbie> tsakos: I don't have a Google account, how can I check it out?
10:12 < tsakos> hexnewbie: Probably you can't
10:12 < THX1338> So your confirm that android by default leak data to google and partners?
10:13 < tsakos> THX1338: Yes?
10:13 < tsakos> What I saw was on Desktop using Chrome. Not on Android. But I'm pretty sure they get a fair share of data in Android, too.
10:14 < THX1338> I think 'Yes?' is not a afirmation
10:14 < junka> tsakos; so you are not sure 1000%?
10:14 < sauvin> Google knows I use an HP48 emulator on my phone a lot. :sigh:
10:14 < tsakos> junka: I'm very sure
10:15 < junka> tsakos; that bnc of yours is collecting your irc logs as we speak as well
10:15 < THX1338> lol man
10:15 < tsakos> junka: I know
10:16 < paddy|> we have the year 2018. all goodies have been setup. where have you been all the years?
10:16 < THX1338> dead
10:17 < THX1338> ask to android
10:20 < tsakos> So, is it impossible to monitor every browser at API level on Android?
10:20 < tsakos> You think that they don't do it? hah..
10:20 < tsakos> They don't only do it for advertising revenue. They monitor their competitors this way.
10:20 < tsakos> Just think about it.
10:20 < THX1338> I don't think, I know. Isn't magic. If I don't run any software of this kind of shit
10:21 < junka> tsakos; please disconnect. freenode is collecting your data!!
10:21 < tsakos> junka: Please disconnect your brain.
10:21 < THX1338> Dude, if your think about that
10:21 < tsakos> junka: It is not supposed to think.
10:21 < THX1338> look to GSM
10:21 < THX1338> they know the places your smartphone connect anyway
10:21 < THX1338> so what
10:22 < cnrhkiyf> so what he says :D lol
10:22 < tsakos> Yeah, true.
10:22 < paddy|> you chew on (false) statements from 10 years ago. thats boring
10:22 < tsakos> They are basically mapping places to IPs
10:22 < tsakos> And they associate this information with every device + account you own.
10:22 < paddy|> or 20 years if you look closer
10:23 < paddy|> like those hero purchasers of "clean cars"
10:23 < tsakos> They know how many devices you have in your house. They also listen to what you are saying.
10:23 < tsakos> If you believe this is not happening. You're free to believe whatever you want. But this happens.
10:24 < paddy|> its naturally happening
10:24 < junka> tsakos; turn off your device please
10:24 < paddy|> you either adapt or gtfo
10:24 < THX1338> The point is, which data can leak and not
10:24 < paddy|> leak is a trendy word, right?
10:24 < THX1338> I can't get offline forever
10:24 < THX1338> if I use a network from  some ISP
10:24 < cnrhkiyf> Yes you can
10:24 < tsakos> paddy|: We are not trendy. We use Linux.
10:25 < tsakos> ;)
10:25 < THX1338> I can and I will when I die
10:25 < cnrhkiyf> But your google account will survive
10:25 < cnrhkiyf> so not problem
10:25 < THX1338> yes, no problem
10:25 < tsakos> lol
10:25 < THX1338> I will be forever in the world
10:25 < junka> no problemo
10:26 < THX1338> nice shit, i never think about that
10:26 < THX1338> If google know who am i
10:26 < cnrhkiyf> ;)
10:26 < Psi-Jack> THX1338: Kindly mind the language, please.
10:27 < junka> THX1338; chances are google dont give a fuck about you, sorry to break it to you
10:27 < THX1338> Sorry.
10:27 < tsakos> junka: Yeah, that is. They care about billions.
10:28 < junka> tsakos; but no one cares about you :(
10:28 < cnrhkiyf> Psi-Jack: Kindly mind to be less annoying
10:28 < tsakos> Yeah, I know.
10:28 < Psi-Jack> cnrhkiyf: You seem to also not understand the meaning of annoying too.
10:28 < junka> tsakos; no you don;t
10:29 < cnrhkiyf> No I just do what you are doing
10:29 < cnrhkiyf> Just with kids
10:29 < cnrhkiyf> :D
10:29 < junka> <tsakos> Well, it happens. Maybe I am the interesting guy for them.
10:29 < THX1338> junka, yes, but I think when I die and get a new body and make a restore of my brain from my google account
10:29 < junka> THX1338; wouldn't that be cool
10:29 < tsakos> junka: You probably didn't understood what I meant.
10:29 < THX1338> Wait: Brain sync
10:30 < THX1338> why not, junka ?
10:30 < junka> THX1338; eternal life
10:30 < tsakos> Google life
10:31 < junka> you are jealous
10:31 < tsakos> Me?
10:31 < junka> yes
10:31 < tsakos> Why?
10:31 < junka> because
10:31 < THX1338> Idk, i dont need a eternal life, just a few respaws, maybe 5
10:31 < tsakos> Because they have billions? They will soon die. I'm younger. hahah.
10:31 < tsakos> I'm not jealous.
10:32 < alexey-nemovff> that's chappy's film
10:32 < THX1338> yeahh. That show, something carbon get some respaw too
10:32 < THX1338> junka, you don't like respaw?
10:33 < THX1338> you just need to agree if the google account terms
10:33 < junka> THX1338; I do, but bad people would turn that against us and they could go unlimited kamikaze
10:34 < THX1338> ah, nice point.
10:34 < acresearch> people i cannot install imagemagick from pacman is there another program that will allow me to reduce the size of an image?
10:34 < alexey-nemovff> GIMP
10:34 < THX1338> lol
10:36 < THX1338> acresearch, I never try this but, maybe you can use native tools to do that. Try mount the image and use resize2fs, idk, probably will corrupt, but why not
10:36 < acresearch> THX1338: hmmm let me read about it
10:37 < THX1338> acresearch, gparted maybe help too if you prefer gui stuff
10:37 < alexey-nemovff> acresearch: you didn't mean an image picture.. lol
10:38 < acresearch> alexey-nemovff: yes an image picture
10:38 < alexey-nemovff> xD
10:38 < THX1338> acresearch: -> https://softwarebakery.com/shrinking-images-on-linux
10:38 < alexey-nemovff> so GIMP is the one
10:39 < acresearch> dam my linux seems to not have any of the default commands, everything i read in the forums gives me command not found
10:39 < THX1338> ah
10:39 < THX1338> lolz
10:39 < alexey-nemovff> so bad
10:39 < rumpel> acresearch, or maybe you have a cat sitting on your keyboard
10:39 < THX1338> I think you mean about images like iso or stuff
10:40 < alexey-nemovff> rumpel: so common
10:41 < junka> alexey-nemovff; it was funny when you suggested GIMP because my first thought was an ISO as well
10:41 < THX1338> acresearch: -> https://tinypng.com/
10:41 < alexey-nemovff> yep, I noticed it with your lol expression xD
10:41 < V7> Hey all
10:42 < V7> Is it possible to check whereever copying is finished or not
10:42 < THX1338> sorry about the lol, sorry acresearch to send you to resize2fs and gparted . lolz
10:42 < alexey-nemovff> np
10:42 < rumpel> V7, depends on "copying". Maybe try "sync".
10:43 < alexey-nemovff> V7: by comparing both file sizes?
10:43 < V7> So, plasma desktop says that's it's fisnished, but it's not, because process exists and there were situations mb when copying stuff wasn't copied succesfully if usb was unmounted
10:43 < V7> https://i.imgur.com/rOBMjKA.png
10:43 < acresearch> THX1338: ah that is much better, i wish i could do it within linux but i guess an online service would do.,, thanks
10:43 < sauvin> Why can you not install something?
10:44 < V7> alexey-nemovff: But if moving ?
10:44 < THX1338> V7, which command you use? cp, dd or what?
10:44 < alexey-nemovff> or GUI?
10:44 < junka> of a file manager
10:44 < rumpel> V7, in that case use "sync". If that exists you can be sure, that all blocks were written.
10:44 < V7> rumpel: Yes, I would use rsync, but can I change a command which is used by a particular istribution ? For example, KDE Neon
10:45 < rumpel> V7, .. exits...
10:45 < rumpel> V7, not rsync. "sync"
10:45 < V7> THX1338: used dekstop's CTRL+X CTRL+V
10:45 < rumpel> V7,  man sync: "Force changed blocks to disk, update the super block."
10:45 < V7> I know, these are good mb ... the terminal versions
10:45 < V7> But I'm looking for something more deksoped
10:46 < alexey-nemovff> so file manager you used
10:46 < V7> Dolphin
10:46 < V7> Can I tell dolphin to use sync to copy|move stuff ?
10:46 < alexey-nemovff> and you said you copy the files to an USB stick?
10:47 < V7> alexey-nemovff: Yes
10:47 < V7> And it says that it's already finished, but it's not
10:47 < THX1338> Ah man, try to check the PID, if still alive, not over yet. -> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/66795/how-to-check-progress-of-running-cp
10:47 < V7> THX1338: Already showed you this one https://i.imgur.com/rOBMjKA.png
10:47 < THX1338> But idk if dolphin use cp to perform "copy and paste".
10:47 < V7> The process exists
10:48 < alexey-nemovff> how can you tell it wasn't really copied?
10:48 < well_laid_lawn> V7:  something in kde is probably indexing the drive
10:48 < well_laid_lawn> since stuff was written to it
10:48 < sauvin> Nepomuk or Akonadi or some crap?
10:48 < V7> alexey-nemovff: Because If I wait for this process exit and then unmount and mount a USB stick then file exists, but if I would try unmount it when process exists then file won't exist mb
10:50 < V7> So, it could be that Dolphin doesn't really show the real progress of copying, but a strange one.
10:50 < alexey-nemovff> I can recall a similar situation when using KDE
10:51 < mynameisdebian> if I export a variable and then run a Ruby script, will the Ruby script have access to the variable?
10:51 < V7> Try to copy a bunch files with a dolphin and you'll see that it's showing progress and it'll tell you that copying has been finished, but it hasn't.
10:51 < V7> mynameisdebian: It'll have an access to your environments variables which are in current bash pid
10:51 < THX1338> V7, can you send to me the 'ps -p <pid>' output?
10:51 < V7> THX1338: when it copies ?
10:51 < alexey-nemovff> the solution: changing to GTK based DEs :v
10:52 < V7> alexey-nemovff: why ?
10:52 < alexey-nemovff> they don't do that
10:52 < V7> Does the desktop environment have something related to the disk modifying stuff ?
10:52 < THX1338> Yes V7, right now the process are alive, can you trace the pid and run the command "ps -p <pid>"?
10:53 < THX1338> I want to check the pid status
10:53 < V7> THX1338: I'll try to
10:54 < V7> THX1338: It looks like this "11896 ?        00:00:08 file.so" when I've just started
10:55 < THX1338> Sorry, run with -l -> ps -p <pid> -l
10:56 < V7> THX1338: http://termbin.com/bu19
10:57 < V7> It shows that already has copied 13.3 from 16.2 GB
10:57 < THX1338> I think crash, the PID status is D
10:58 < V7> D?
10:58 < THX1338> means uninterruptible sleep.
10:58 < alexey-nemovff> V7: a quick workaround is to use cp command
10:58 < poolson> hey folks im setting up an ICMP tunnel and have so far established a connection from the client to server
10:58 < V7> THX1338: Now it is S
10:58 < poolson> and from the server i can ping the client and also ssh to the client
10:58 < V7> Now R
10:58 < THX1338> ah okay then
10:58 < THX1338> the print you send to me is D
10:58 < V7> It changes from D to R to S
10:59 < poolson> however i cannot go the other way around .... heres the results from "route" ... anyone can see something from that ? im not terribly network savvy :)
10:59 < poolson> https://pastebin.com/UvFJQCvm
10:59 < V7> alexey-nemovff: cp does the same
10:59 < THX1338> oka. Why your cant run 'ls -lh' inside the destination diretory to check the file size?
11:00 < V7> I meant, when you're using cp and in terminal you see that it finished, but process exists, so cp working strange the same.
11:00 < V7> rsync was good with verbose
11:00 < V7> THX1338: Might be du ?
11:00 < poolson> 167.99.100.90 is the actual IP of the server
11:01 < THX1338> du will helps too, V7
11:02 < veek> how do i install openboard with dependencies - they only have a .deb for ubunto not debian
11:02 < V7> THX1338: Says 15GB, but Dolphin's progress says 16
11:03 < V7> mb
11:03 < jim> poolson, ok, I can ping it
11:04 < THX1338> okay V7, probably a bad convertion. Check manually, run du -b <source file >
11:05 < THX1338> after compare to "du -b <dest file>"
11:05 < jim> veek, do you see a .orig.tar.gz?
11:05 < jim> veek, or a .dsc
11:06 < THX1338> afk
11:09 < mynameisdebian> I have a VPS that I am logged into the desktop of, over RDP (like VNC).  I also have an SSH window open to the same server.  When I run   export DISPLAY=10.0 ; firefox   I see firefox launch as expected in the RDP window.  However, when I run a Ruby script to open the browser it does not open.  When I run "ps -ef" I see:   ubuntu    4980  4978  5 09:06 pts/0    00:00:01 [firefox] <defunct>    .  Anyone have any idea how I can get
11:09 < mynameisdebian> my Ruby script (with Selenium) to open a Firefox window on the server?
11:14 < well_laid_lawn> mmabye try #ruby
11:14 < well_laid_lawn> how rubby interacts with the X session is ...
11:16 < jim> (rubby bering a massager module)
11:17 < veek> jim, nope - it's just a binary but they have a page here https://github.com/OpenBoard-org/OpenBoard/tree/master/src
11:17 < TyrfingMjolnir> How can I see the chunks of a file?
11:17 < TyrfingMjolnir> I have a JPG file I would like to see if there are parts of that file that is NOT the JFIF chunk
11:18 < jim> veek, if they made debian packages and they offer source, maybe you can ask them for the debianized source... it's files that get generated when they prep the source for upload
11:18 < well_laid_lawn> it's a rubby jim but not as we know it
11:20 < veek> jim, they said no.. http://openboard.ch/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16 While there are no plans for us to do it ourselves, it should be relatively feasible to generate a package given that we have packages for Ubuntu
11:21 < veek> i'm having problems with the dependencies
11:21 < veek>  error while loading shared libraries: libavformat-ffmpeg.so.56
11:21 < veek> tried running the binary after unpacking it
11:23 < jim> veek, hmm, tell them these files are generated when they build the package
11:23 < lukey> veek: Try: Install the .deb with dpkg -i and then run apt-get -f install
11:24 < jim> lukey, that
11:24 < jim> is somewhat risky...
11:24 < jim> if he does that, then he imports a ubuntu package dependency subtree
11:25 < jim> and then his system enters the dependency hell rabbit hole
11:25 < veek> yeah not doing it
11:25 < veek> i've had problems with that before
11:27 < jim> your better bet is to build the package on your debian system, and in so doing, you generate a dependency subtree that came from your system (with your libs and other deps)
11:27 < veek> yeah cloning from github
11:28 < jim> that's an ok bet too... see if you can get it to install somewhere in your home dir (not in /usr, which debian packaging pretty much owns)
11:29 < TyrfingMjolnir> There used to be an application on Mac that was called Can Opener; that extracted tags from files regardless of the filename, and gave me MP3, JPG, TIFF, and PNGs
11:30 < jim> if it's got a configure script, the configure script will probably have a --prefix=/dir/to/install/into parameter
11:32 < jim> veek. and/or, you can ask them who builds the .debs, and ask those people
11:39 < Dagmar> That missing dep was clearly ffmpeg, by the way
11:51 < vlt> TyrfingMjolnir: Can you describe what a "chunk" is? Files in general don't consist of chunks. Just bytes.
11:53 < TyrfingMjolnir> $VER
11:53 < TyrfingMjolnir> JFIF
11:53 < veek> jim i'm trying qmake as per their readme and getting Project ERROR: Unknown module(s) in QT: script uitools so .. installed libqtscript4-uitools
11:53 < veek> there's no -dev for that
11:54 < TyrfingMjolnir> vlt: ffd8 ffe0 0010 4a46 4946 0001 0101 00c8 00c8 0000 ffdb 0043 0001 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 0101 01ff db00 4301 0101  ......JFIF.............C....................................................................C...
11:54 < TyrfingMjolnir> The JFIF chunk starts
11:54 < TyrfingMjolnir> The container formats have their chuncks similarly tagged
11:54 < Dagmar> We have a `file` command for that
11:54 < megaTherion> indeed
11:55 < TyrfingMjolnir> Where is its source?
11:55 < megaTherion> somewhere online
11:55 < megaTherion> where all other source is
11:55 < TyrfingMjolnir> It's at the bottom of man file
11:56 < veek> TyrfingMjolnir, typically you'd use 'od' and a byte offset or write something in python to look inside the jpeg
11:56 < Dagmar> That would be reinventing the wheel
11:57 < veek> file only looks at the first few bytes to ID the file type and uses heuristics for other files
11:57 < TyrfingMjolnir> megaTherion: An approriate answer would be: ftp://ftp.astron.com/pub/file/file-5.32.tar.gz
11:57 < Dagmar> Mac users are just easily impressed
11:58 < notadeveloper> i guess linux debian and gnu honors creative rights
11:58 < notadeveloper> ;p
11:58 < megaTherion> TyrfingMjolnir: he can search himself
11:58 < TyrfingMjolnir> megaTherion: If you do not have anything but foul language to contribute please don't
11:58 < notadeveloper> my pulse audio thingy crashes when i try to visualize a output stream
11:58 < notadeveloper> goo luck
11:59 < TyrfingMjolnir> veek: od?
11:59 < megaTherion> TyrfingMjolnir: foul language? wtf are you talkin about?
11:59 < megaTherion> stop trolling please
11:59 < veek> TyrfingMjolnir, you'r on sunOS running irssi..
12:00 < TyrfingMjolnir> megaTherion: When you answer lmgtf or "somewhere online"; it does not add to the knowledge, it's in pricinple the same as telling somebody to take a hike.
12:00 < veek> https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists
12:00 < TyrfingMjolnir> veek: Yes
12:01 < megaTherion> well but its a fact, if you are asking for such simple things then what can I do about it
12:01 < TyrfingMjolnir> megaTherion: It's still SPAM what you do.
12:01 < megaTherion> obviously not
12:01 < TyrfingMjolnir> megaTherion: You can avoid replying
12:01 < sauvin> megaTherion, you can choose to be some other place that's more to your liking.
12:01 < megaTherion> TyrfingMjolnir: then be the first one to do so
12:01 < megaTherion> sauvin: I've no problem with this place
12:01 < sauvin> It seems this place would beg to differ.
12:02 < megaTherion> I doubt that all the 2159 people agree with you
12:02 < megaTherion> the source of the file program can  be found online, files can be checked with the hex editor
12:02 < sauvin> Word to the wise: tone it down.
12:02 < megaTherion> I dont know what the other buzz is you're talking about
12:02 < TyrfingMjolnir> megaTherion: OK, let me rephrase this: Stop filling my logs with social studies; you are off topic.
12:02 < megaTherion> TyrfingMjolnir: learn to use /ignore then
12:03 < megaTherion> or dont log all the  crap on the IRC as I do
12:03 < sauvin> /ignore implemented for 2161 people.
12:03 < sauvin> Make that 2160 now.
12:04 < TyrfingMjolnir> sauvin: ignore worked fine, it stopped
12:05 < sauvin> Yes, it did. His ability to speak in this channel was removed.
12:07 < akay> sauvin: What a man. you truly make this channel a better place. thank you.
12:07 < TyrfingMjolnir> veek: Anything against SunOS? I use Joyent SmartOS; and I have debian and ubuntu zones in there
12:07 < sauvin> Trying to. It can be hard to be sure sometimes.
12:08 < TyrfingMjolnir> \m/
12:09 < hexnewbie> SunOS? Unsupported since 1994, which doesn't sound reassuring (also means I'll probably install it, they haven't made anything good since the 90s ;p )
12:09 < sauvin> :D
12:14 < jim> veek, so you're going through and trying to install the build dependencies?
12:15 < TyrfingMjolnir> hexnewbie: ZFS is beyond whatever anyone else has done since 1994; apart from btrfs
12:17 < hexnewbie> I've been using ZFS exclusively for a decade, and it's kind of overrated. And COW stores in general; the features are amazing, but come at a cost and aren't strictly necessary
12:19 < TyrfingMjolnir> hexnewbie: What are the costs you consider too high?
12:19 < Petrov> hello
12:19 < sauvin> Hey.
12:20 < TyrfingMjolnir> veek: I always end up calling somebody using Qt every time I attempt to compile a Qt project; pencil 2D or similar comes to mind.
12:20 < Petrov> resolv.conf is empty after restart, anyone have an idea?
12:20 < TyrfingMjolnir> Petrov: Resolv.conf of which distro?
12:20 < Petrov> debian 9 stable
12:21 < TyrfingMjolnir> Petrov: try #debian
12:21 < Petrov> TyrfingMjolnir: ok, thx
12:21 < TyrfingMjolnir> I have never had that issue in debian, I have been using debian from version 2.0
12:22 < hexnewbie> TyrfingMjolnir: In ZFS, memory usage, fragmentation, slowness, fragility when redundancy is lacking. In Btrfs, general reliability, slowness, fragility even with redundancy. In Ceph, slowness, extremely high utilisation cost of COW copies (during snapshot management).
12:22 < Petrov> TyrfingMjolnir: me too never that issue. it start from debian 8 and 9
12:23 < TyrfingMjolnir> I assume it can have something to do with services?
12:24 < TyrfingMjolnir> hexnewbie: I run ZFS on machines with 32 - 1024 GB RAM, and 1 that has 16GB, the one that has 16GB is a bit slow.
12:26 < Petrov> TyrfingMjolnir: the problem is, i want a static ip-address. ping 8.8.8.8 no problem but ping google.be then he cannot find it
12:28 < hexnewbie> TyrfingMjolnir: My memory is enough for my limited workloads, and I still experience latency with ZFS that I don't with ext4.
12:29 < TyrfingMjolnir> Petrov: curl -kL https://opendns.org | grep 208 > /etc/resolv.conf
12:30 < TyrfingMjolnir> Then edit /etc/resolv.conf so that there are the 2 IP addresses only
12:31 < TyrfingMjolnir> Each line should also be prefixed by "nameserver "
12:33 < hexnewbie> TyrfingMjolnir: That's on my personal system. When my company tried to use ZFS for their production storage, we suffered a different kind of performance issues when scaling to hundreds of volumes. But the gist of it was that due to COW, storage devices experienced a much higher loads for the same amount of effective write operations. Switching to Ceph resolved this as Ceph 1) it scales better and across multiple systems, 2) does COW only on
12:33 < hexnewbie> demand (but it sucks when it does COW), 3) actually distributes stuff better when you have larger clusters. But I'd still rather have no COW in my filesystem (except possibly for the brief time I make a backup).
12:40 < TaZeR> what would happen if i removed my display manager, how would logind ask for my name/pw?
12:41 < edge_hay> TaZeR bash
12:41 < TaZeR> i have it set to skip asking for username and password anyway so i dont really need the display manager
12:41 < TaZeR> would it just work by default, or do i need to configure logind?
12:41 < edge_hay> What distro?
12:41 < hexnewbie> If you configured your DM to auto-login you, you *need* the DM to auto-login you
12:42 < TaZeR> archlinux
12:42 < edge_hay> ._.
12:42 < TaZeR> but can i configure logind to auto logmein?
12:42 < edge_hay> No idea
12:42 < edge_hay> Not sure why you would do that
12:43 < veek> TaZeR, you can start X directly via initd or systemd - don't remember..
12:43 < TaZeR> because i already enter a password to unlock my disks
12:43 < hexnewbie> I'm using nodm for system where I want to be auto-loggined as a specific single user (media centre as well as one of my older phones), but I found nodm lacking (it didn't cooperate with the ConsoleKit, unlike the regular DM, so no DRI and OpenGL)
12:43 < TaZeR> hmm think ill keep it as is then, doesnt sound too simple
12:43 < veek> TaZeR, as root even :p but installing pkgs installs ports so i keep a password for root
12:44 < hexnewbie> Admittedly, I may have misconfigured nodm in that setup, but it's still easier to keep your regular DM :)
12:44 < TaZeR> well i do have passwords, its just not needed to log in hehe
12:45 < TaZeR> i gotta study systemd today, its really an amazing piece of software
12:47 < TyrfingMjolnir> TaZeR: I log in using console
12:48 < TyrfingMjolnir> Then I type startx
12:48 < TyrfingMjolnir> or tmux depending on my mood
13:02 < edd_lc> anyone has an editor+plugin preference for writing markdown?
13:06 < lopid> vim
13:13 < edd_lc> lopid: do you actually use it for md?
13:14 < TaZeR> i was reading some stuff but it was quite old so im not sure if the information was correct, but basically it said i should not be running dhcpcd and NetworkManager service at the same time?
13:14 < Emil> Hey
13:14 < jim> hi
13:14 < TaZeR> i dont remember activating either manually so it was just like this automatically
13:14 < Emil> So on the destroyallsoftware podcast on tarpipe
13:14 < Emil> https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/screencasts/catalog/tar-fork-and-the-tar-pipe
13:14 < Emil> he uses tar -c .
13:15 < lopid> i do, edd_lc
13:15 < Emil> but apparently tar has since evolved and I can't replicate that :D
13:15 < Emil> the point is to print the raw tar format to stdout
13:15 < hexnewbie> edd_lc: Vim's ‘set formatoptions=tcqa tw=72’  (or tw=76) is useful for Markdown. I haven't actually used it for Markdown (I use ReST or LaTeX instead), but the text flow is similar, and auto-format is useful
13:15 < Emil> but tar refuses to coperate, cowardly even
13:15 < Emil> Just wondering if you knew how to replicate it?
13:16 < Emil> (The example is on the last few minutes of the video)
13:16 < jim> what exactly do you want to do?
13:16 < lukey> Emil: tar -cf - .
13:16 < jim> (note that the host name of ths site is making me not just a little nervous)
13:16 < hexnewbie> Emil: The tar pipe described in this article works just fine, and it is how I copy files across SSH all the time.
13:16 < Emil> lukey: tar: Refusing to write archive contents to terminal (missing -f option?) tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
13:17 < hexnewbie> Emil: That's not a tar pipe
13:17 < hexnewbie> Emil: If stdout is the terminal, you forgot the tar pipe part ;)
13:17 < Emil> hexnewbie: the question wasn't about the pipe
13:17 < lukey> Emil: tar -cf - . | cat
13:17 < Emil> hexnewbie: it was about printing the raw format
13:17 < Emil> lukey: ah true, that's a good point
13:17 < Emil> I wonder when the regression was introduced
13:18 < hexnewbie> Emil: That's not a regression. If you're actually printing it to your terminal, you're doing it wrong
13:18 < jim> well :)  tar -cf - . and  tar -cf - . | cat are the same :)
13:18 < Emil> jim: did you try running that?
13:18 < hexnewbie> jim: Well, the ‘| cat’ allows tar to do something stupid :)
13:18 < Emil> jim: because they sure as heck produce different results
13:18 < s10gopal>  linux-firmware-image-4.12.0-rc7-custom_4.12.0-rc7-custom-1_amd64.deb   linux-headers-4.12.0-rc7-custom_4.12.0-rc7-custom-1_amd64.deb   linux-libc-dev_4.12.0-rc7-custom-1_amd64.deb     linux-image-4.12.0-rc7-custom_4.12.0-rc7-custom-1_amd64.deb , i need to install these 4 files to install kernel ?
13:19 < jim> oh I see, tar is checking what its output is
13:19 < Emil> jim: yeah
13:19 < edd_lc> hexnewbie: Cheers
13:19 < Emil> s10gopal: eh?
13:19 < edd_lc> lopid: Do you have a link to the plugin?
13:20 < hexnewbie> Emil: What possible use do you have for printing the tar to your terminal? Suffix with ‘| tar -t’ to get useful output
13:20 < lopid> no plugin
13:20 < jim> s10gopal, you're running a debian deriv?
13:20 < Emil> hexnewbie: I wanted to see the raw format
13:20 < s10gopal> Emil, yes ubuntu
13:20 < lopid> set ft=markdown if it isn't already
13:20 < s10gopal> jim, i need to install all these 4 files ?
13:20 < hexnewbie> Emil: ‘| cat -v ’ or ‘| xxd’ (depending on the predominant type of data) may be more useful then
13:21 < jim> umm, I don't think so... what has you want to get the .debs manually?
13:21 < s10gopal> jim, i am going git bijection to solve https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1745646
13:21 < hexnewbie> Emil: Directly piping the binary data to the terminal without cat -v or xxd may even be dangerous, depending on where the data came from :)
13:22 < jim> s10gopal, and you're doing this to kernel source?
13:23 < Emil> hexnewbie: what's the attack vector?
13:23 < s10gopal> jim, this file is also linux-4.12.0-rc7-custom_4.12.0-rc7-custom-1.dsc
13:23 < s10gopal> yes
13:23 < Emil> or rather, what can be done with that?
13:23 < Emil> but that was still an excellent point because I was wondering how the heck it showed 10k symbols for him
13:23 < Emil> apparently tar has some minimum block size :D
13:24 < jim> is the .git dir in there? and, what you want (in the short term) is to unpack kernel source?
13:24 < s10gopal> jim, there are a lot of other files generated in my home directory
13:24 < s10gopal> i want to install kernel built by me
13:24 < Emil> s10gopal: download the kernel source, check what packages you should have installed from kernelnewbiew
13:24 < Emil> s
13:24 < Emil> and then copy your existing config from /boot to your config
13:25 < jim> s10gopal, ok, and you built those packages?
13:25 < s10gopal> jim, yes
13:25 < edd_lc> lopid: Is that supposed to highlight markdown notations?
13:25 < lopid> it does for me
13:25 < Emil> then make menuconfig, make -j8, make install
13:25 < jim> hmm. then I'd -guess- yes. install all four.
13:26 < kheeper> Hi, one of my client have moved to another hosting where is limit for mails 400MB so I can't migrate it because on my server his mails have 7.8GB is there a way to export it so he can import it into his outlook?
13:26 < s10gopal> complete list of files that are generated https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/3qS7QHt66k/
13:27 < hexnewbie> Emil: I seem to recall mentions of xterm title exploits in regards to the su/sudo TTY hijacking, but I can't seem to find the links now
13:27 < lukey> kheeper: Yes you can do that with Outlook
13:27 < Techknight> Hi guys. do any of you know of a tool like stow to manage dot files but which also let you include files/folders from /etc and ect?
13:28 < hexnewbie> Emil: (The other/standard forms of TTY hijacking don't apply to printing arbitrary binary data, but potential terminal exploits do)
13:28 < lukey> kheeper: I.e. Add the Old Mailserver to Outlook and export from there
13:28 < jim> ok, you'd install just the .debs
13:28 < Emil> hexnewbie: interesting
13:29 < Emil> hexnewbie: thanks for the headsup!
13:29 < s10gopal> thx
13:29 < kheeper> lukey: I will try that I have not used outlook ever ;-)
13:36 < POJO> hello
13:36 < POJO> why does checking the password take longer on linux if you submit wrong password?
13:36 < POJO> thank you for the answers
13:38 < barometz> POJO: I think that might be an artificial wait to slow down a hypothetical local intruder
13:39 < BCMM> POJO: it is an artificial wait, to slow down brute-forcing
13:39 < POJO> I see, thanks
13:40 < BCMM> POJO: configurable in /etc/pam.d/login (on debian anyway)
13:40 < POJO> righto
13:41 < BCMM> POJO: on my system it's 3 seconds: auth       optional   pam_faildelay.so  delay=3000000
13:41 < POJO> thanks, BCMM and thanks barometz
13:41 < BCMM> np
13:42 < barometz> that definitely needs microsecond resolution
13:43 < hexnewbie> I think they need to future-proof it and switch it to picoseconds ;p
13:43 < ski7777> Hi
13:46 < ski7777> I want to analyze my tinyproxy log file. There are lines like "CONNECT   Apr 06 13:50:08 [12423]: Connect (file descriptor 6): 192.168.11.101 [192.168.11.101]" and lines like "INFO      Apr 06 13:52:19 [12423]: process_request: trans Host GET http://connectivitycheck.android.com:80/generate_204 for 6"
13:46 < ski7777> How can I match them
13:47 < ski7777> I want to find out which host in the network connects to which server.
13:48 < lukey> ski7777: Dunno, I'd use awk
13:49 < ski7777> lukey: I dont search for a tool. I need to match the two lines
13:50 < ski7777> There are the lines where the client connects to the proxy and the lines where the client sends the HTTP request
13:50 < ski7777> But in the second type there is no client IP
13:51 < lukey> I'd guess the "for 6" is related to "(file descriptor 6)"
13:53 < ananke> ski7777: if that product doesn't let you adjust logs format, and there's no ready parser for it - then you'll have to write your own. pick #yourlanguageofchoice and have at it
13:53 < ski7777> ananke: I need to check whether I can adjust the tinyproxy
13:53 < ski7777> And I will write the parser on my own
13:54 < ananke> ski7777: sounds great. best of luck
13:56 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
13:56 < Felishia> halp
13:56 < Felishia> guys I need to remotely access a computer
13:56 < ananke> Felishia: 'help'
13:57 < Felishia> but my mum is the one that is in the other side :<
13:57 < Felishia> and she is not super gud with computars
13:57 < ananke> Felishia: 'good'
13:57 < Felishia> also incoming ssh requests are blocked :(
13:57 < lukey> Felishia: Teamviewer?
13:57 < Felishia> so it's about impawsible I need to figure something out
13:57 < Felishia> right
13:57 < Felishia> would that work?
13:58 < ananke> Felishia: ffs, this isn't teen twitter. spell properly
13:58 < Felishia> old crappy linux machine, less than 1mbps shitty connection
13:58 < ananke> run sshd on additional port
13:59 < Felishia> how am I going to explain that to my mother?
13:59 < Felishia> via a phone call
13:59 < ananke> Felishia: same way as you'd have to explain virtually anything else
13:59 < lukey> Felishia: Teamviewer should be the easiest one to install i'd guess
14:00 < Felishia> dude my mother doesn't understand why the world is round...
14:00 < ananke> Felishia: then you're SOL
14:00 < hexnewbie> Felishia: If you're English-speaking family (and, in my experience, even if you aren't exactly), dictating command is possible, and I found it easier than walking one through a GUI
14:00 < hexnewbie> commands
14:00 < Felishia> she doesn't speak english
14:01 < Felishia> is there a way tos setup teamviewer to tell it to give me console access only
14:01 < Felishia> and then allow me to copy and paste files?
14:01 < hexnewbie> Felishia: Ah, well then... You may need to pay your mother a visit (and setup SSH remote access for yourself for the next time)
14:01 < Felishia> passing images would be too harsh for such an slow connection
14:01 < ananke> you want a magic solution to an ill defined problem with major constraints. you will have to have the person on remote end go through a procedure, regardless of a solution
14:01 < lukey> Felishia: No and Yes
14:02 < lukey> Felishia: it has an File-Only mode
14:02 < CobHead> Rsync em ;]
14:02 < Felishia> ananke, yes I just need the simplest procedure
14:02 < Felishia> CobHead, is it possible to setup ssh to work around a firewall, a goverment firewall, and dynamic ip addresses?
14:03 < ananke> 'government firewall' is as vague as you can get
14:03 < hexnewbie> Felishia: Yeah, using VPN, e.g. OpenVPN (unless that's blocked on the said government firewall as well)
14:03 < Felishia> it's just another firewall that doesn't like incoming connections
14:04 < Felishia> connection is too slow for a VPN to work
14:04 < ananke> Felishia: you're missing the point. it means nothing. it doesn't sufficiently describe how it acts. yet you want a simple 'will it work'
14:04 < Felishia> I know teamviewer worked in the past
14:04 < Felishia> but the problem are the images
14:05 < lukey> Felishia: I repeat it has an File-only Mode (With Filezilla-like interface)
14:05 < Felishia> oh
14:05 < ski7777> ananke, lukey: I found out how to parse it.
14:06 < hexnewbie> Felishia: The use a VPN has little to do with connection speed. OpenVPN (and other VPNs) add very little overhead, and the overhead has more to do with encryption or triggering fragmentation due to MTU mismatch (or transport protocol misuse) than with your actual connection speed.
14:06 < Felishia> lukey, may I get a link?
14:06 < lukey> https://www.teamviewer.com/de/download/linux/
14:06 < Felishia> no no of the file only mode
14:06 < CobHead> You can be damn sure that IPSec adds a shitload of overhead
14:06 < lukey> https://www.teamviewer.com/en/download/linux/ rather
14:06 < Felishia> I am googling and I can't find it
14:07 < lukey> https://community.teamviewer.com/t5/Knowledge-Base/How-can-I-transfer-files-with-TeamViewer/ta-p/3780
14:08 < Felishia> lukey, got it thanks, I think that will work
14:08 < Felishia> :D
14:09 < Felishia> hexnewbie, and I disagree, many of those VPN services become unusable with terrible connections, it sometimes takes 1-3 minutes to access facebook add a slight overhead and you get too much time
14:10 < hexnewbie> Felishia: Why would you access Facebook? You want to SSH. That uses very little bandwidth
14:10 < Felishia> I know.. but I am just giving an example on how slow that internets is
14:10 < jbit> ssh is terrible if you have any packet loss
14:10 < Felishia> whch there is like 95%
14:11 < ananke> jbit: luckily, there's mosh
14:12 < hexnewbie> Felishia: So the problem is unsolvable and you need to purchase better Internets. (Seriously, OpenVPN + SSH is your best solution from what's been described so far)
14:12 < hexnewbie> Or OpenVPN + mosh, as ananke says
14:12 < jbit> ananke: indeed, mosh is nice :)
14:14 < Felishia> hexnewbie, that's the best internet
14:15 < Felishia> thanks to communism... -_- but anyway let's not talk bout politics.
14:15 < hexnewbie> I have used OpenVPN + SSH in a hotel where the only place the WiFi got any signal was if I lay with the shoes inside the entryway across from the bathroom.
14:16 < hexnewbie> Even that gave you terrible bandwidth and had packet loss, but at least it got connected.
14:17 < hexnewbie> Hm, I believe that was in like three different hotels, not one
14:18 < Felishia> hexnewbie, seriously we are talking one of the worst internet services in the whole world in fact my mother has to ride 5km away in order to gain access
14:19 < lukey> Felishia: You can always do Sneakernet ;)
14:20 < hexnewbie> Felishia: OK. Fine. If the solution with the lowest possible bandwidth doesn't work for you, there's no solution. That internet cannot be used for anything.
14:20 < hexnewbie> Get dialup
14:22 < Felishia> incoming connections are blocked
14:22 < Felishia> and the ip changes every time
14:23 < hexnewbie> Felishia: OpenVPN (or other VPN solution) solves that very problem.
14:24 < lukey> You could dial directly to Her with an Modem, then run agetty on the modem tty :)
14:25 < hexnewbie> Why run agetty on the modem? It's more fun if it's StarCraft waiting for the incoming call. ;p
14:27 < lukey> :D
14:28 < Felishia> o.O
14:38 < oiaohm> Felishia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers  when you have seen some of the prototype protocols attempted makes even some of the worst internet connections seam normal ish.
14:40 < lukey> oiaohm: I bet an pigeon carriying an 20Tb SSD has more Bandwith :P
14:43 < d4re> what would that unit be called? tb per day?
14:44 < hexnewbie> At short distances, you'd get 20 TB/hour. Good luck SSHing over that. But you could watch a movie or two while waiting for the TTY to register your keystrokes. ;p
14:44 < lukey> d4re: No the Latency is one day, you could send hundreds og pigeons :P
14:45 < hexnewbie> You'd need transport layer protocol with good out-of-order capabilities, I don't think UDP is well-suited
14:46 < saltlake> Hi, linux users, do you use ubuntu?
14:46 < saltlake> or debian
14:46 < lukey> I'm on debian testing
14:46 < saltlake> Is testing stable?
14:47 < hexnewbie> fgrep 'University of Mars' /usr/src/linux/net/ipv4/tcp_timer.c -B 9 -A 5
14:48 < lukey> saltlake: mostly
14:48 < triceratux> im running a stretch derivative, yes. i can run xubuntu if necessary. there is no escape
14:48 < Felishia> oiaohm, hahaha
14:48 < Felishia> the example of  packet loss XDDD
14:49 < hexnewbie> Pigeons don't lose packets. They may, however, drop some extra ‘packets’ on innocent passersby underneath.
14:50 < lukey> They are also easy to intercept using "Breadcrumbs" Technology
14:51 < hexnewbie> That's some nasty side channel. Researchers working Google's Project Zero have determined how to extract up to 10 bytes from the packet the pigeon is carrying from the location and time of the drop.
14:51 < triceratux> http://securitronlinux.com/debian-testing/new-russian-linux-distribution-to-compete-with-windows-server/ https://realnoevremya.com/articles/2076-russian-ministry-of-defence-to-shift-all-service-computers-to-russian-astra-linux-os http://ftp.debian.ru/astra/stable/orel/iso/live/
14:51 < Felishia> lol
14:52 < Felishia> wat
14:52 < triceratux> works for me. doesnt have gvfs-mtp support so i even got the mtp-tools working rofl
14:53 < hexnewbie> Install is установка in Russian? I seem to remember that from some DOS programs.
14:54 < TaZeR> wats the deal with services that look like this "syslog-ng@.service" with @ in it, i cant do a standard "systemctl status syslog-ng@.service" on it same with other ones like that
14:54 < TaZeR> even its own wiki says it should be called syslog-ng.service
14:54 < hexnewbie> (For some reason, I always thought it meant turret. )
14:54 < veek> how do you configure drawing tablets in linux - restrict them to the application window vs the entire screen
14:54 < Azrael_-> hi
14:56 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: Those are for unit templates, for example openvpn@office.service and openvpn@home.service can both be handled by openvpn@.service
14:56 < lukey> veek: Gimp has a setting for that AFAIK
14:56 < mawk> https://www.wireguard.com/performance/
14:57 < veek> lukey, yep tried that - it does nothing
14:57 < TaZeR> so what would be the proper way to interact with them using systemctl commands?
14:58 < TaZeR> im getting things like this when i try status or stop/start "Failed to get properties: Unit name autovt@.service is neither a valid invocation ID nor unit name."
14:58 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: openvpn@office.service would be the one you'd use. You wouldn't touch openvpn@.service
14:58 < lukey> veek: Do you know xsetwacom?
14:58 < TaZeR> so how does that relate to for example this one: syslog-ng@.service?
14:59 < veek> lukey, ah not tried that - thanks let me check (this is a gaomon tablet)
14:59 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: For OpenVPN at least there's also a openvpn.service which starts all VPNs configured to start manually. (Have no idea about syslog-ng)
14:59 < stevendale> I converted a friend to Ubuntu from Windows 7
14:59 < TaZeR> where can i find the full name of this service that i can stop/start status etc
14:59 < stevendale> They got an old laptop and wanted to get through the Administrator password
14:59 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: syslog-ng@.service is the template, no such service actually exists, you need to use that on syslog-ng@something.service
14:59 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: What does this say: systemctl cat syslog-ng@test.service?
15:00 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: Without the question mark, obviously :)
15:00 < stevendale> Walked them through making a bootable USB in Rufus
15:00 < TaZeR> it gives a description and some stuff, Unit Service Install
15:00 < stevendale> Told them to click the 'Try' option when they booted it
15:01 < stevendale> They never looked back
15:01 < stevendale> Helped them get Steam working :)
15:01 < TaZeR> its logging stuff, so it has to be running under some name
15:01 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: Well, unless you pastebin it (or least paste the ExecStart= line for use to see how it uses %i) we wouldn't have clue what's the point of a syslog template
15:01 < ABCook> stevendale, nice job!
15:02 < TaZeR> sorry its just confusing for me, thought i had this service stuff figured out :p https://pastebin.com/xu19ymAM
15:02 < stevendale> One less peon for Microsoft
15:03  * ABCook xD *
15:03  * stevendale (
15:03 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: Does a syslog-ng.service (without @) exist?
15:03  * stevendale Would say Peasant but plays Orc in Warcraft
15:03 < TaZeR> no
15:03 < stevendale> Orcs have more health :)
15:04 < TaZeR> i was looking for it at first cause a wiki page was referring to it that way
15:04 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: ls -ld /etc/default/syslog-ng@* /etc/sysconfig/syslog-ng@*
15:04 < stevendale> They're also 3x more expensive, at least in Warcraft III :3
15:05 < TaZeR> ls: cannot access '/etc/sysconfig/syslog-ng@*': No such file or directory |  -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 196 Mar 12 04:07  /etc/default/syslog-ng@default
15:05 < hexnewbie> stevendale: I stopped at Warcraft II, so they had the same health/price as far as I'm concerned.
15:05 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: systemctl start syslog-ng@default
15:05 < TaZeR> ah yes there is the proper status of my daemon
15:06 < TaZeR> how on earth would i ever figure that out lol
15:06 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: It possibly shows in systemctl's output. For some reason I was confused and though you hadn't started it yet, and were just configuring it
15:07 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: So, maybe this was a better idea: systemctl | grep syslog-ng@
15:07 < RayTracer> systemctl status syslog<tab><tab>
15:07 < hexnewbie> Tab completion (or lackthereof): Why I still /etc/init.d/lo<tab>-ser<tab>-na<tab> start ;p
15:08 < TaZeR> hexnewbie: yes thank you thats helpful ill remember to use it for future servics with @'s
15:11 < hussam> Hi. What is a good tool to edit text in an existing pdf file? I tried libreoffice draw but it moved all the pictures  and frames around.
15:12 < hussam> scribus is not letting me edit it. evince can highlight the text so it is 'valid text'.
15:13 < fiter> Can anyone tell how organization can be found for redhat?
15:13 < hexnewbie> hussam: That's possibly your only option. Try to import the PDF into Inkscape using Poppler/Cairo importer instead of the internal importer. That will make the text a graphic, so you'd have to either rewrite it or copy it from your other import. PDFs are not generally editable.
15:14 < fiter> I am asking because I am a beginner in redhat
15:14 < hussam> hexnewbie: ok, thank you.
15:15 < hexnewbie> There's pdfedit, but it's Qt 3, so not included in modern distros (and also, if I recall correctly, pretty horrible)
15:15 < stevendale> So basically
15:15 < stevendale> I just started upgrade process from Ubuntu 16.04 to 17.10
15:15 < stevendale> It's fetching 1709 new packages
15:16 < hexnewbie> stevendale: Directly? Is that officially supported?
15:16 < ayecee> it looks like you're trying to finish a sentence. would you like help with that?
15:16 < stevendale> That's a Windows 10 version number, what a coincidence
15:16 < stevendale> hexnewbie, Yeah ^^
15:17 < hexnewbie> ayecee: Will steal this for my Clippy implementation. I will call it clip.py
15:17 < stevendale> 16.04 to 18.04 will be supported when its released he
15:17 < ayecee> i can get behind that
15:17 < stevendale> hexnewbie
15:17 < stevendale> But 18.04 will be the last upgradable directly from 16.04
15:17 < stevendale> One could do 14.04 > 16.04 > 18.04
15:18 < hexnewbie> stevendale: I see. Good luck still (my Ubuntu upgrades never went completely without issue)
15:18 < stevendale> Still less download time than a clean iso hexnewbie :)
15:18 < triceratux> stevendale: fwiw the dedoimedo guy is enthusiastic about such a pathway being possible https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/xubuntu-aardvark-upgrade.html
15:18 < stevendale> My internet caps at 755 kB/s down ^^
15:18 < mawk> once it crashes you'll have your 1709 packages download time + the iso download time stevendale
15:19 < stevendale> I wreckon I can fix crashes myself :>
15:19 < triceratux> stevendale: the tragedy is that 16.04.4 is pretty much uptodate with 17.10. its arguably better to stick with a current 16.04 & leave the 17.10 to its 9mo cycle
15:19 < hexnewbie> stevendale: Go to the neighbours and switch their YouTube off, and you'd get better speeds ;)
15:20 < ayecee> this guy wifis
15:21 < ghulan> I want everybody off my boat, Or!  I will send the Army Guard for trooping.
15:21 < hexnewbie> Good call. Also tinfoil the neighbours' apartment to keep their WiFi signals in.
15:23 < ghulan> Yeah, I'd like a regional swipe of cards across the i18n region in East and Mid coast.  Pension is 400b.
15:24 < ABCook> 18.04 is still very buggy just a few weeks away from replease
15:24 < ayecee> as is tradition
15:24 < hexnewbie> ghulan: How does one survive on a pension of 400 bytes?
15:24 < ayecee> frugally
15:25 < hexnewbie> s/bytes/bits/
15:25 < ghulan> By being funny.
15:25 < barometz> spend all month constructing the funniest tweet
15:25 < hexnewbie> Funny causes stomach pain, but not much stomach filling.
15:25 < ghulan> Yeah.  You thought we were headed East.  But of course, the main choice is West.
15:26 < ghulan> 1-2 weeks.
15:26 < ghulan> Now you're f8cked.
15:27 < hexnewbie> Tried watching something funny tonight, but I have injured something (again), so laughing hurt and eventually I had to switch it off. I'm on a diet of unfunny systemd jokes now.
15:29 < stevendale> ABCook, When the thousands of people upgrade as soon as it nags them because they don't know any better, bug reports will start coming in like there's no tomorrow
15:29 < stevendale> A month after 18.04's release it should be stable :)
15:29 < ABCook> oh, i am sure of that
15:29 < ayecee> those tracking LTS get notified at .1
15:29 < stevendale> Then they'll probably make 18.04.1 to integrate the updates
15:29 < stevendale> As usual
15:30 < ayecee> those tracking the 6-month releases get what they ask for - excitement!
15:30 < stevendale> 18.04 is a 2 year release :)
15:31 < stevendale> 2014 -- > 2016 --> 2018
15:31  * Felishia noms cookie
15:31 < ABCook> they have made the gnome shell very unstable
15:31 < hexnewbie> There's rolling for those who take excitement seriously
15:31 < ayecee> yeah, a LTS release
15:31 < stevendale> I would use 12.04 if Steam didn't self-implode on it
15:31 < Felishia> but still compatibility is quite harsh because manufacturers keep making it harder for things to be compatible
15:31 < stevendale> libc6 on 12.04 is too old
15:32 < ayecee> i would wear nothing but velvet if it were socially permissible.
15:32 < Felishia> I wonder what's the thing...
15:32 < Felishia> computers get slower and slower with time for some dumb reason
15:32 < Felishia> and compatibility is complicated
15:32 < stevendale> I would wear a bunch of leaves to cover my genitals from front-on view if it were permitted
15:32 < ayecee> i know, right? and how about that airline food?
15:32 < Felishia> it is permited
15:33 < ayecee> even encouraged
15:33 < Felishia> I mean go to the beach none would even bat an eye
15:33 < hexnewbie> Not wearing those leaves is very indecent
15:33 < ayecee> won't somebody think of the children
15:33 < Felishia> hell I saw a naked old lady working in her garden the other day, I mean what's weird about that?
15:33 < ayecee> no
15:33 < ayecee> don't think about them that way
15:34 < Felishia> come on the children can understand what a naked body is
15:34 < triceratux> i run xubuntu 16.04.4 in production but ill migrate to 18.04 on release day. i run lubuntu-next lxqt dailies like a rolling release because theyre never going to release it. its as stable as sabayon or tumbleweed, meaning keep a backup of the last working iso
15:34 < hexnewbie> Felishia: It confuses self-driving AI
15:34 < Felishia> o.O
15:34  * triceratux did the mate / welcome back gnome3 thing in 17.10 & can safely ignore that stuff :)
15:35 < Felishia> well that got to be fixed otherwise it'll be very confused in beaches and stuff
15:35 < stevendale> half of these 1709 packages is probably Unity 7 > Gnome 3
15:35 < stevendale> :P
15:35 < hexnewbie> stevendale: Ouch. I forgot about that downgrade
15:36 < stevendale> I'll probably install the 'lubuntu-desktop' package after this upgrade
15:36 < stevendale> Heh
15:36 < triceratux> stevendale: rofl thats actually true. youre exercising this upgrade path at a particularly challenging time
15:37 < stevendale> God
15:37 < stevendale> There's some idiots next door
15:37 < stevendale> Drunk and partying
15:37 < stevendale> So loud
15:37 < stevendale> I might call the police
15:37 < stevendale> It's almost midnight
15:38 < hexnewbie> So I was right about the neighbours being trouble?
15:38 < stevendale> Yeah :)
15:39 < stevendale> hexnewbie, http://cat.rearend.org:3434/any_year_now.png
15:43 < stevendale> uwu
15:43 < stevendale> So much faster on an SSD
15:43 < stevendale> I need an SSD in everything xD
15:44 < hexnewbie> stevendale: Need full Plasma 5 notification display on that. Files remaining: - Bytes Remaining: - Average speed:  - MiB/s ETA: -
15:44 < ayecee> that's how they get you
15:44  * ABCook xD *
15:45 < mawk> it's not midnight stevendale it's 15h45
15:45 < stevendale> 23:45
15:45 < hussam> hexnewbie: thanks again. looks like erasing the text I needed to chanrge and rewriting it worked.
15:51 < dogbert_2> 1/3 of millennials aren't sure the earth is round...LOL
15:52 < ABCook> well that is because there is so much fake science out there now days
15:53 < ABCook> stuff like the big bang theory which is total rubbish
15:53 < ayecee> also fake statistics
15:53 < BCMM> dogbert_2: source? sounds like the kind of thing that happens if you ask a stupid question on a multiple-choice questionnaire
15:53 < BCMM> i'm surprised only 1/3rd of people thing that question deserves a joke answer
15:53 < BCMM> ^think
15:54 < dogbert_2> BCMM...given the stuff that passes for education in schools these days...not surprising
15:54 < BCMM> ah
15:54 < dogbert_2> more LOL: Legal cannabis on pace to match U.S. soda sales by 2030
15:54 < BCMM> hang on, what channel do you think this is?
15:54 < ayecee> i think he's reading a tabloid out loud
15:55 < dogbert_2> it's electronics...but some stuff is just quite humorous is all
15:56 < ABCook> science still ins't capable of explaining how a caterpillar changes into a butterfly, how can it be capable of explaining the origins of the universe?
15:58 < dogbert_2> heh
15:59 < ABCook> like what is going on right now with the sun
16:00 < ayecee> ABCook: please stop
16:00 < ABCook> no one would dare suggest a slight drop in the output of the run
16:00 < ABCook> k'
16:08 < fendur> yeah I just don't get why "scientists" are so damn confident that the earth is a sphere... stupid.
16:08 < triceratux> http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/381329-lawmakers-press-linux-on-security-of-open-source-software
16:10 < ABCook> and all this yak, yak, yak, about how AI is going to make our lives so much better, you'd think it could be used to debug code better
16:11 < hexnewbie> They didn't ask about Shellshock. How typical.
16:11 < SporkWitch> fendur: it's not, it's an oblate spheroid, whose equatorial bulge is not right one the equator
16:11 < SporkWitch> s/one/on/
16:11 < ayecee> so you're saying it's a sphere
16:11 < fendur> SporkWitch: rubbish! impossible to know that!
16:12 < hexnewbie> I'm unconvinced that time zones or Australia exist
16:12 < ayecee> but not a perfect mathematical sphere
16:12 < ABCook> ayecee, you asked me to stop but you are going on ..
16:13 < fendur> ABCook: you got him good!
16:13 < SporkWitch> it diverges significantly from a perfect mathematical sphere, even if we average out variations like mountains and valleys.  fendur: we know this thanks to extremely precise mass/gravity sensors in satelites (it's how we found out the bulge wasn't right on the equator, like one would have expected)
16:13 < fendur> SporkWitch: im screwing around
17:28 < s10gopal> TJ-: i am doing every thing correct ? can you please check it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1745646
17:33 < s10gopal> peetaur2: can you plz?
17:36 < vampi-the-frog> hey man, I am looking to make a device driver for an USB MIDI device (it's vendor specific stuff), where can I look for support?
17:36 < bls> vampi-the-frog: from the device vendor
17:36 < vampi-the-frog> I mean where can I look for support to develop the linux kernel driver
17:37 < vampi-the-frog> I've already reverse engineered the device
17:38 < bls> then try https://kernelnewbies.org
17:39 < kcrow> this whole journald thing is a waste of resources on my system
17:39 < MrElendig> you might want to consider making a userspace driver instead
17:40 < kcrow> I used to be able top grep for anything in the /var/log syslogs files in a faction of a second
17:40 < hanetzer> yeah. sounds like userspace. libusb or sommat :)
17:40 < MrElendig> kcrow: and get lots of wrong results back
17:40 < MrElendig> also, I call bs on a fraction of a second, atleast for first run :p
17:40 < kcrow> and if I now use the journald facilties it takes many MINUTES of CPu and real time to do do the same thig with 100%CPU
17:41 < MrElendig> grepping over half a gig of logs is going to take a weee bit more than a fraction of a second
17:41 < MrElendig> kcrow: then something is broken on your system
17:41 < kcrow> the wrong results can fe filtere out in less time thanb the njourlad takes to complete the first pass
17:41 < kcrow> Yes, something broekn I am sure
17:42 < MrElendig> talk to your distro support
17:43 < vampi-the-frog> bls: thx
17:43 < vampi-the-frog> MrElendig: was that for me?
17:43 < kcrow> running solaris I can can still grep allt he /var/log files AND /var/adm files in a small fraction of time for trying to wait for the  jourld resoruces to comlete
17:43 < kcrow> I can call Suse but I doubt it will be useful
17:43 < kcrow> the 100% CPU usage smells bad
17:43 < MrElendig> vampi-the-frog: the userspace driver comment yes
17:43 < vampi-the-frog> MrElendig: what's the difference?
17:44 < kcrow> grep and lotsa filtes doesn't do that on any O/S I have  use
17:44  * kcrow gets quiet again
17:44 < MrElendig> vampi-the-frog: not crashing the entire system because you made a typo or other mistake in your driver
17:44 < vampi-the-frog> I was able to communicate with the device with a small libusb program
17:44 < vampi-the-frog> MrElendig: can you give an example?
17:44 < bls> then you likely don't need your own kernel level driver
17:45 < MrElendig> also easier for end users
17:45 < vampi-the-frog> sure but where can I find one that does something similar to what I want to do?
17:49 < absurdistani> hey guys, so, I have a Ryzen machine with Vega, and need to use a new-ish kernel. Unfortunately, in newer kernels my intel nvme drive doesn't work but my samsung does. Has anyone else had issues with NVMe on 4.14+ ?
17:56 < esselfe> I'm back! I missed you guys a lot :)
17:56 < paddy|> i missed me too
17:57 < vampi-the-frog> it looks like sound/usb/line6 might be a good place to start
17:57 < esselfe> The worst thing is I formatted over my Lunar partition, now I have to do it all over again... this will take ages
17:58 < paddy|> esselfe: stop the formatting and run Testdisk
17:58 < esselfe> It's too late, it's all overwritten with data now
17:58 < paddy|> doh
18:06 < hanetzer> absurdistani: nope. 4.15.14 (iirc) here, nvme (samsung 960 evo 500gb) as /, ryzen 1700
18:08 < absurdistani> hanetzer: so, that's the thing. my samsung 960 works flawlessly. it's just the intel nvme disk that doesn't work, but it does in 4.9, in windows, and in hackintosh...
18:09 < hanetzer> huh. file a bug
18:09 < hanetzer> absurdistani: mobo and bios version, for my info?
18:12 < absurdistani> it's an MSI X399 gaming pro carbon ac, and bios version 7B09v17
18:15 < hanetzer> ah. k, I'm on an asrock x370 killer sli ac; isn't the one you're talking for threadrippers?
18:15 < absurdistani> indeed :)
18:15  * hanetzer jelly
18:17  * jelly hanetzer 
18:20 < hanetzer> no u
18:20 < absurdistani> hanetzer: honestly, the 1950X benchmarks better but the performance gain over the 1800X isn't that great unless you're talking about things like compile times where a make -j31 vs make -j15 is pretty dramatic
18:21 < RonWhoCares> I wonder how to 'tweak' the results of "ls" to match what I've shown in this pastebin.  https://pastebin.com/fVVssBhX
18:23 < hanetzer> absurdistani: I'm a gentoo penguin
18:24 < hanetzer> RonWhoCares: | sed 's:/home/::' >> file
18:26 < RonWhoCares> hanetzer: Thnk you
18:26 < absurdistani> hanetzer: ah... now i understand why you so jelly
18:35 < CoolerZ> hey?
18:35 < CoolerZ> anyone who is a developer?
18:35 < CoolerZ> who uses C?
18:36 < absurdistani> I use C
18:36 < CoolerZ> familiar with libraries like gmp?
18:36 < CoolerZ> i need to build gmp
18:36 < CoolerZ> but i keep getting errors
18:36 < absurdistani> I do not use GMP no.
18:43 < hanetzer> CoolerZ: log?
18:48 < CoolerY> hanetzer, checking for suitable m4... configure: error: No usable m4 in $PATH or /usr/5bin (see config.log for reasons).
18:48 < mawk> then install m4
18:49 < mawk> did you read the error message ?
18:50 < hanetzer> CoolerY: what linux distro are you on?
18:50 < junka> Waycooler
18:51 < pnbeast> m4?  Are you using sendmail?  Run!  Run, Forest, run!
18:52 < CoolerY> what is m4?
18:52 < CoolerY> ubuntu
18:53 < lukey> CoolerY: https://www.google.de/search?q=linux+m4
18:54 < CoolerY> do i just apt-get install m4 ?
18:54 < lukey> Jep
18:56 < CoolerY> lukey, actually do i need to install autoconf automake and libtool ?
18:57 < lukey> CoolerY: What are you trying to do anyways? Debian has libgmp in the repo
18:57 < lukey> CoolerY: Probably
18:57 < CoolerY> lukey, is libgmp the same as the normal gmp library?
18:57 < CoolerY> lukey, i want to use gmp is my program
18:57 < CoolerY> in*
18:58 < lukey> CoolerY: apt-cache show libgmp10
18:58 < lukey> Does the Homepage match the one of the Lib you want?
19:01 < pnbeast> CoolerY, you mean you want to write a program that uses GMP functions and types and such?  Then you probably just need to install the development package for your distro.  You probably don't need to compile anything.
19:01 < CrazyTux> why don't distros like Debian incorporate in them the products of the work done by their derivatives like Ubuntu/Mint? for example Mint Tools. Or do they?
19:01 < pnbeast> CrazyTux, it's forbidden by law in countries that have ratified the Berne conventions.
19:02 < vlt> ?
19:02 < CrazyTux> Berne conventions?
19:02 < triceratux> CrazyTux: the dconf editor is the exception that proves the rule. canonical wrote it & it has gained wide acceptance in the distros
19:03 < CrazyTux> triceratux, have you ever used LMDE?
19:04 < strixdio> trying to run targetcli (on gentoo) getting this: g-io-error-quark: "Could not connect: No such file or directory (1)" any thoughts?
19:04 < CrazyTux> triceratux, btw, is MX Linux as stable and well tested as Debian stable on which it is based?
19:04 < triceratux> CrazyTux: yep theres nothing special about it. hasnt had the same amount of work put in as the real mint versions. its like an ancient dysfunctional crumbling wheezy
19:04  * triceratux is being a little harsh
19:05 < pnbeast> strixdio, strace it and see what file/dir it's seeking.
19:05 < CrazyTux> triceratux, between Mint (based on Ubuntu LTS) and MX linux which one would you recommend? for a beginner, for home and office use?
19:05 < strixdio> pnbeast: I have to google what strace is
19:05 < pnbeast> strixdio, oh, it's loads of fun.  Good luck!
19:06 < absurdistani> DOLE OUT THE HARSHNESS /jk
19:06 < strixdio> thanks :)
19:06 < strixdio> oh this does look cool!
19:06 < absurdistani> CrazyTux: neither. I would actually recommend Solus or Mageia for a newb
19:06 < triceratux> CrazyTux: those 2 are about the best there is. you can hardly go wrong with either. linux.com is now behinc mx ftw https://www.linux.com/learn/intro-to-linux/2018/4/mx-linux-mid-weight-distro-focused-simplicity
19:06 < pnbeast> strixdio, as a tutorial, run "strace date".  You'll probably start to get the idea.
19:07 < CrazyTux> absurdistani, why?
19:07 < strixdio> :D
19:07 < strixdio> I'm compiling now.
19:07 < absurdistani> CrazyTux: because in my experience they don't have the broken af package situation that I have come across in testing the other two
19:07 < strixdio> wtf
19:08 < strixdio> something on my computer just ... barked.. ??
19:08 < pnbeast> Did you install barking-strace by mistake?  It's a common typo.
19:08 < triceratux> CrazyTux: when yer sick of the snarliness of debs you long for a real rpm distro. mageia is about the best in that category
19:09 < CrazyTux> triceratux, do you mean Mageia is the best of the rpm based distros?
19:09 < CrazyTux> triceratux, what about Opensuse Leap and Fedora?
19:09 < strixdio> lol pnbeast
19:09 < absurdistani> opensuse and fedora I would never recommend to a newb
19:10 < strixdio> well, the first errors I'm seeing is "connect(6, {sa_family=AF_UNIX, sun_path="/var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket"}, 110) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)"
19:10 < triceratux> CrazyTux: mageia blows them away insofar as userfriendliness, branding, robustness, attitude. then what absurdistani said
19:10 < strixdio> oh, no, I am wrong.
19:10 < absurdistani> A long time ago, I would have recommended SuSE to everyone. It was polished and flexible. The polish is gone with OpenSUSE. With Fedora, it's truly edgey and often has bugs.
19:11 < CrazyTux> triceratux, I too felt the same about the stability of Mageia.
19:11 < strixdio> stat("/usr/share/locale/en_US.UTF-8/LC_MESSAGES/messages.mo", 0x7ffedda25470) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
19:11 < pnbeast> strixdio, note that in strace output you'll typically see lots of missing files, e.g. while a binary runs through a search path.  You can probably work backwards most effectively, as there are not usually lots of errors/output between the end of strace output and the "real" error.
19:12 < strixdio> hmm, this is a wall of text :/
19:12 < pnbeast> Yes, it's a mess.
19:12 < mawk> there's always errors in this strixdio
19:13 < mawk> it's ok
19:13 < strixdio> lol
19:13 < mawk> most are benign
19:13 < mawk> for instance that .mo error
19:13 < strixdio> I'm not concerned that there are errors, this I can deal with.
19:13 < strixdio> It's just a matter of "which one?"
19:13 < triceratux> CrazyTux: im running astra 2.11. its about a week old. they shrunk the ISO by 50% & its downright elegant http://securitronlinux.com/debian-testing/new-russian-linux-distribution-to-compete-with-windows-server/
19:13 < strixdio> I'm going to "guess" that it's one closest to the write output of the error
19:14 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok
19:15 < triceratux> CrazyTux: the ubuntu-mate devs are pretty proud of themselves https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/ubuntu-mate-bionic-beta2/
19:15 < mawk> yes strixdio
19:16 < mawk> you have strace options to differentiate the program from its children
19:16 < mawk> strace -fyy is the minimum flags I use, it traces every child and shows useful info about the file descriptors instead of the number
19:16 < mawk> then you can add flags to put the strace logs in separate files, one for each PID
19:17 < CrazyTux> triceratux, I am using Ubuntu Mate 16.04 also.
19:19 < CrazyTux> triceratux, did you go through this info? https://blog.mageia.org/en/2018/02/20/mageia-identity-security-breach/
19:19 < CrazyTux> triceratux, how serious is this?
19:20 < triceratux> CrazyTux: pretty serious for anyone with a "mageia account" rofl. to me itz just a distro
19:22 < CrazyTux> triceratux, doesn't it make Mageia a not so secure distro?
19:24 < triceratux> CrazyTux: it demonstrates that like mint they are prone to lapses in the implementation of their security. you can deduce what you want from that. theyre basically overextended so that could make the distro itself suspect, sure
19:27 < triceratux> CrazyTux: tbh i havent booted my mageia in months. i was quite taken with it but its kinda ponderous. theres better stuff out there
19:28 < CrazyTux> triceratux, better stuff?
19:29 < triceratux> yeah theres swagarch for example
19:29 < CrazyTux> ok
19:30 < s10gopal> i am doing git bisect between 4.12 and 4.13-rc1 but now git bisect is at v4.12-rc7 , it is correct?
19:30 < CrazyTux> triceratux, btw, do you think KDE could be the most suitable DE for newbies? in ease of use and intuitiveness and also less dependence on CLI?
19:32 < triceratux> CrazyTux: by my nefarious ranking system mageia barely edges into the top 20 xfce distros https://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/3695921
19:32 < paddy|> triceratux: nice work!
19:32 < triceratux> CrazyTux: cant say dont run it. ask Ps1-Jack when hes around. he abandoned it because its unstable & the icons flash incoherently
19:33 < triceratux> paddy|: i take no credit for the work of these fine distro maintainers. ya cant make this stuff up
19:33 < paddy|> i meant the list
19:34 < triceratux> me too. yer very kind ;)
19:34 < paddy|> thanks :)
19:35 < TheSeven> I'm running into an issue where tearing down a net namespace causes an endless spinning kworker holding net_mutex
19:35 < TheSeven> has someone seen that before, or any hints on how to figure out what's going on / how to fix it?
19:36 < TheSeven> looking at the code, it seems like there must be a cycle in a linked list
19:36 < ABCook> it would be interesting to see a list like that with the Cinnamon desktop
19:38 < CrazyTux> triceratux, is KDE the most advanced DE now?
19:39 < triceratux> CrazyTux: like i say im an xfce person. youll have to troll the kde users
19:40 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok. lol
19:41 < SporkWitch> ratpoison or gtfo
19:41 < sauvin> KDE here.
19:42 < sauvin> KDE might actually be the most "advanced" DE there is; if so, I use it so I don't have to be so damned "advanced" myself.
19:43 < CrazyTux> sauvin, in beginner friendliness, convenience and intuitiveness.
19:43 < paddy|> SporkWitch: but ratpoison is a window manager only?
19:44 < CrazyTux> SporkWitch, I don't intend to kill rats.
19:44 < sauvin> Can't help you with that, CrazyTux. I've been using KDE for so long that what I might consider "friendly, convenient and intuitive" might just be a fiction borne of long familiarity.
19:44 < SporkWitch> CrazyTux: as well as customisation options and control.  The only real negatives are resource usage and some regressions for ideological reasons (in particular, they intentionally crippled virtual desktops, because the guy in charge of them is the same one that came up with those buggy, poorly performing, and pointless Activities)
19:45 < SporkWitch> sauvin: i think he was saying it IS most advanced in those categories; it looks and behaves like win7 by default, so basically zero learning curve
19:45 < sauvin> Not exactly *zero*, I'll bet.
19:45 < SporkWitch> paddy|: yes, just a WM, but no need for that vile rat
19:45 < CrazyTux> ok
19:45 < SporkWitch> sauvin: if you're coming from windows, the odds are decent you won't know you're on linux until you go to install something.
19:46 < CrazyTux> Cinnamon is quite suitable for newbies, I feel.
19:47 < paddy|> one thing is good about cinnamon compared to gnome - it has a config setting to disable those stupid hot corners! arrrgh
19:47 < sauvin> SporkWitch, yea. Windows don't have repositories. :D
19:48 < SporkWitch> sauvin: yup, but thanks to the ubiquity of smartphones and tablets, even that learning curve is negligible.  you point them at the GUI package manager and say "this is like the apple/google store"
19:48 < sauvin> :D
19:48 < CrazyTux> I intend to install Mint on some desktops in my office.
19:49 < CrazyTux> Mint with Cinnamon.
19:49 < sauvin> I'll admit this much: a tired, crusty, stiff-assed old fart like me had little trouble adapting to Android.
19:51 < CrazyTux> none in that office has used any linux distro before.
19:51 < CrazyTux> no one.
19:51 < paddy|> you feel ready to teach them?
19:52 < SporkWitch> if they're coming from Macs, point them at something gnomish; if coming from windows, KDE.  Default appearance and behaviours match those respectively, minimizing the learning curve.  Application management is the same on both as it is on their smartphones.
19:52 < toothe> This might be the wrong place to ask, but is there an AWS channel?
19:52 < toothe> prob not...?
19:52 < CrazyTux> paddy|, I expect that they will learn by themselves. At least to use for common tasks.
19:52 < Psi-Jack> toothe: There is.
19:52 < Psi-Jack> ##aws
19:52 < SporkWitch> toothe: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/findingchannels
19:53 < CrazyTux> They have been using Windows only.
19:53 < toothe> ohh, I was trying to join #aws, not ##aws. darn
19:53 < toothe> thanks!
19:56 < CoolerZ> https://paste.pound-python.org/raw/bSEzJN4LB1H2H1zYzz0m/
19:56 < CoolerZ> what do i do there?
20:00 < CrazyTux> which is more resource hungry between KDE Plasma and Gnome 3?
20:00 < CrazyTux> I have used neither of them.
20:01 < SporkWitch> dunno about resources, but in terms of performance, gnome seems to be far less responsive overall, as well as just being limiting.  KDE tends to work much better unless you use the "Activities" features, which are monstrously wasteful of resources, have abysmal performance, and are absurdly buggy
20:02 < CrazyTux> ok
20:02 < ABCook> gnome 3 is just a terrible user interface period
20:03 < SporkWitch> unfortunately gnome3 is also the ONLY thing with a decent touch-screen/tablet interface :(
20:03 < SporkWitch> (which is ironic, since those devices tend to have low resources, causing the already poorly-performing gnome to run even worse)
20:03 < dgurney> I have a confession to make
20:03 < dgurney> I like nearly every DE
20:03 < ABCook> cools
20:03 < hexnewbie> Did Plasma Active ever get anywhere?
20:04 < CoolerZ> what do i do here?
20:04 < SporkWitch> hexnewbie: is that the tablet/touchscreen interface? if so, it's in limbo last i heard; no real support or movement in at least 5+ years now
20:04 < dgurney> pretty much the only thing out of everything I've tried that I don't like is Unity
20:04 < CoolerZ> https://paste.pound-python.org/raw/bSEzJN4LB1H2H1zYzz0m/
20:05 < SporkWitch> CoolerZ: don't spam, and you'd probably get more responses if you described the issue rather than expecting us to take the time to navigate to some random link and read a pastebin to see if it's even something we MIGHT be able to help with.
20:05 < CrazyTux> on which DE an user can do most of the tasks if not all without requiring to use the terminal?
20:05 < CoolerZ> SporkWitch, the paste avoids spamming the channel
20:06 < hexnewbie> SporkWitch: Sounds about right.
20:07 < SporkWitch> CoolerZ: no it doesn't, it avoids getting useful responses lol.  Pastes are good, but not without a description.  And as we've just seen, it does result in spam since you just reposted the same thing from 10 minutes ago.
20:07 < CoolerZ> SporkWitch, 10 minutes is an acceptable window
20:07 < Alexander-47u> does docker ce only support x64?
20:07 < Alexander-47u> O_O
20:08 < SuperSeriousCat> x86_64, armhf, s390x and ppc64le
20:09 < SporkWitch> CoolerZ: maybe on a twitch stream
20:09 < arduiko> Hello, is linux support Kana keyboard indidcator ?
20:10 < arduiko> So Windows send signal to the keyboard if NumLock/CapsLock/ScrollLock is on or off, but not for the Kana key?
20:11 < arduiko> is Linux support do it ?
20:11 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Is that a keyboard LED?
20:12 < arduiko> no
20:12 < arduiko> but it's in LED page in USB spec
20:13 < arduiko> so, normally it should be a LED
20:13 < arduiko> at HID Usage Table.pdf, 11 LED Page (0x08)
20:13 < arduiko> 11.1 Keyboard Indicator
20:13 < hexnewbie> arduiko: So you have Kana/Japanese input working, but you want to get the not-LED indicator working as well?
20:13 < arduiko> there is Num Lock, Caps Lock, Scroll Lock, Compose, Kana and Shift
20:14 < arduiko> exact
20:14 < SporkWitch> hexnewbie: pretty obvious you're just running into a language barrier; he's made it clear it's the indicator LED
20:14 < arduiko> is Linux doing it ?
20:17 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Do you see the LED in /sys/class/leds ? I'm sure the LED itself can be switched on and off (especially if it appears there), but I'm not sure if ibus/fcitx/uim (or whatever IM you're using) will have support for it.
20:18 < arduiko> hexnewbie sorry I don't have linux, I just asking this question because it's the case on Windows ^^
20:18 < arduiko> ok thanks anyway
20:19 < arduiko> it's not the case on windows*
20:21 < hexnewbie> arduiko: The Linux kernel itself supports the LED, and binds it to Kana lock. https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/input/input-leds.c  ; ibus knows about Kana Lock.
20:22 < NanoSector> hey, I have a Cherry Trail tablet whose touchscreen's x-axis is flipped (if i touch left, the touch happens right). I have applied a patch to the goodix driver which checks the DMI of the tablet and then applies the inverted_x_axis parameter, but I am not sure if this is the right way to patch something like this?
20:22 < hexnewbie> arduiko: In short, the LED can *certainly* be made to work. It's likely it works out of the box, but if it does not, it will not be easy :)
20:23 < arduiko> hexnewbie ok thanks
20:23 < arduiko> hmm
20:24 < arduiko> now I would ask if you know what the hell is the compose and shift key ?
20:24 < arduiko> shift is maybe just the shift but I am not sure it's that key
20:25 < SporkWitch> you know how you can hold alt and enter numbers on the number pad to insert symbols on windows?  Defining a compose key is a sane and intuitive way of doing that instead.  You have to set a key as the compose key; I usually use capslock, since there's basically no reason to ever use capslock
20:25 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Compose is a key present on some Unix keyboards (e.g. Sun keyboards, sold on Ebay still), originating on DEC keyboards, that allows you to compose multiple character into one
20:25 < sauvin> I USE CAPS LOCK ALL THE TIME, YOU DOOFUS!
20:25 < SporkWitch> but instead of having to memorize arbitrary number sequences, you can, for exmaple, hit compose->tm to get ™
20:25 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Compose : ) on my computer produces ☺
20:26 < arduiko> you have a compose key ? :o
20:26 < SporkWitch> s/->/→/
20:26 < hexnewbie> arduiko: No (although I was tempted to buy a Sun keyboard off of Ebay), but Xorg/Linux offers you to emulate one with a key combo.
20:27 < SporkWitch> you define a key as the compose key in software typically; as noted, few keyboards have a dedicated compose key
20:27 < arduiko> oh I see
20:27 < arduiko> https://i.stack.imgur.com/bJE3t.jpg
20:27 < SporkWitch> you can achieve the same on windows with the "wincompose" program
20:27 < arduiko> under right shift
20:27 < arduiko> or left
20:27 < arduiko> interesting
20:27 < arduiko> and the shift is the shift ?
20:28 < arduiko> :D
20:29 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Yes, that one, and I was after that keyboard (except not UK). Its intended use was accented characters IIRC, like Compose-U-" giving you ‘Ü’, and I suspect mathematics (o-/ to get ø, etc.). Kind of like old typewriters did (U - backspace - ")
20:30 < arduiko> ok thanks for the explanation
20:31 < arduiko> else a offtopic question, is there an equivalent of the window emoji on Linux ? :p
20:32 < arduiko> the windows shortcut: Windows + period
20:32 < arduiko> 😲
20:32 < hexnewbie> arduiko: What do you mean? 😮
20:32 < Dagmar> We don't do feels here.
20:34 < revel> No. Why you'd want that is another question...
20:34 < arduiko> omg hard to find the article
20:35 < arduiko> https://blog.getemoji.com/emoji-keyboard-windows
20:35 < arduiko> !!!
20:35 < arduiko> found it
20:35 < arduiko> I talk about it :D
20:35 < SporkWitch> newlines are not a substitute for punctuation...
20:35 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Emojis are/can be supported by Compose sequences just as easy as anything else. ibus and fcitx have emoji input methods
20:36 < arduiko> ok ^^
20:36 < jml2> arduiko, windows boy
20:36 < arduiko> hehe
20:39 < aBound> Yellow.
20:39 < arduiko> ohhhh I just understood something 😲
20:40 < aBound> He understood something woo.
20:40 < arduiko> Compose key is the deadkey
20:40 < arduiko> :o
20:40 < arduiko> haha
20:41 < arduiko> Maybe deadkey wasn't present in the layout driver in the past
20:42 < aBound> Careful now arduiko is getting to 'smart.' :P
20:42 < arduiko> x)
20:42 < jml2> gotta reboot
20:44  * aBound reboots 
20:44 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Dead key(s) in computers work slightly differently than in mechanical typewriters. And Compose is just one of the (slightly different) ways to do that.
20:44 < arduiko> okey
20:48 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Dead keys usually refer to things like Dead Acute Accent (pressing Dead Acute + O gives you Ó). Dead acute is either generated by the ' key, or by AltGr+' (depending on layout). However, Compose and dead keys tend to malfunction in unison when you install a buggy IM module (Fcitx+Qt 4 for example).
20:48 < snatcher> efibootmgr doesn't work (EFI variables are not supported on this system.) seems because legacy compatible mode doesn't allow access them, i'm copied everything from hdd with dos table to new one with gpt, question is how to create new efi boot entry from legacy?
20:50 < hexnewbie> snatcher: You need in UEFI mode before you can touch the EFI variables. Live media and chroot is one way. If you copied GRUB/bootloader to the ESP, selecting it from the firmware's boot menu may be enough
20:56 < aBound> Swoosh, I'm off. :P
21:12 < mawk2> brb
21:21 < lesshaste> I am happily using vncserver but sometimes it dies, which is a pain. Is it possible to save the state of vncserver so that I can at least have something to resume if it dies?
21:24 < Dagmar> Hue hue hue.  GL bindings for bash
21:24 < Dagmar> "Abuse of Technology" project, indeed
21:26 < hexnewbie> Bash needs a JavaScript engine and a UI API driven by it
21:26 < pnbeast> lesshaste, what "state" are you talking about?
21:26 < lesshaste> pnbeast, vncserver is stateful
21:26 < vlt> lesshaste: Not that I knew of, except for something like freezing the whole state of a virtual machine ;)
21:27 < lesshaste> vlt, hmm... interesting
21:27 < pnbeast> lesshaste, I suspect you don't know what you're asking for.  But repeating words without further explanation is a waste of both our times.
21:28 < Dagmar> If it crashed, there's nothing you're going to be able to restore that won't _also_ immediately crash
21:28 < pnbeast> The phrase he's looking for is "checkpointing".  I don't follow development, but AFAIK it still doesn't exist.
21:29 < vlt> lesshaste: I'm running vnc (as well as x2go and xrdp) servers on xen domUs which can be frozen and restored to any given point in time.
21:29 < pnbeast> LWN had an article about patches or a plan or something about a hundred years ago.  I'm sure the web knows about it.
21:35 < lukey> There's criu, which can checkpoint single applications and even whole LXC containers (allowing livemigration), but you should probably fix your vncserver
21:35 < Sitri> lesshaste: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/10597/reattach-to-lost-x11-session
21:35 < lukey> lesshaste: /\
21:38 < arduiko> And do you use numlock desactivated on Linux or alwaws activated like
21:39 < arduiko> I mean does someone use numlock desactivated on Linux ^^
21:43 < vlt> arduiko: Is that your question?
21:43 < arduiko> ywa
21:43 < arduiko> yes*
21:44 < arduiko> like if there is an another function to numlock that just disable the numpad and switch it to page up and directional key
21:44 < arduiko> or if no, why use it on linux
21:45 < arduiko> I ask this because I know that nobody use numlock disable on Windows
21:46 < mawk> why would it be different on linux arduiko
21:46 < arduiko> I don t know :D
21:46 < arduiko> but ok there is no diff :p
21:47 < nobody> hi :)
21:48 < spammcoin> who's that, who is typing into the chat room?????????
21:48 < SporkWitch> most software will accept input from the numpad as makes sense in the application itself, regardless of the status of numlock (exception: text input, in which case numlock matters).  It's mostly for non-full keyboards; they skip home/end/pgup/pgdn/del/ins and have you use the numpad.  Particularly frustrating on my current laptop, saw the numpad in the pictures before I bought it and it doesn't
21:49 < SporkWitch> have those dedicated keys, and even cuts the 0 key in half to shove the up arrow into what would normally be the left half of the 0 key (makes no sense, my older, SMALLER laptop has a full keyboard with all of those keys and no shrunken numpad keys >_<)
21:50 < geheimnisse> TKL mafiaaaa .... I hate the numpad
21:50 < hexnewbie> Any example of such software?
21:50 < arduiko> SporkWitch ok ^^
21:50 < SporkWitch> hexnewbie: mostly games; very few other things use the numpad for something other than text input
21:51 < mawk> I guess it's when you put the keyboard in raw mode
21:51 < mawk> you get the numpad keys as KP_7 for instance, regardless of numlock state
21:51 < hexnewbie> SporkWitch: Well, games have rather creative uses for the keyboard in general (and that's before I rebind everything on it)
21:51 < arduiko> lol I launch a debate
21:52 < arduiko> :D
21:52 < arduiko> ok so, death to the numlock on Linux too
21:52 < arduiko> this is great :D
21:52 < SporkWitch> no, that's my point: most software that uses it for something other than raw / text input, they usually map both the key with and without numlock to a given function, effectively ignoring numlock state.
21:54 < arduiko> Games recognize show Keypad 0 keypad 1 ect on the keypad and no matter the numlock states
21:54 < hexnewbie> gnome-calculator and xcalc are examples of this (kcalc isn't though)
21:54 < arduiko> yes I have seen that on Windows program
21:54 < SporkWitch> only time it's really been annoying was one of my bluetooth keyboards not having a numlock key, and so when using it on my playstation i can't use the numpad :(  (was a logitech one that instead of having a numlock key it let its number pad work as a built-in calculator; no way to toggle it either)
21:55 < arduiko> even playstation use NumLock LED oO
21:55 < arduiko> omg haha
21:57 < SporkWitch> honestly they'd have to go out of their way not to; you think they wrote HID libraries from scratch? of course not.  They used something extant, and it'd have numlock support.  The only question is whether to default to numlock on or off.
21:58 < arduiko> in my BIOS, there is an option to set numlock state at boot
21:59 < SporkWitch> some BIOS / UEFI have that, most DEs also have a setting for it
21:59 < hexnewbie> Wouldn't be unprecedented - X11/Linux supports Scroll Lock on every level (i.e. it works in Excel in Wine), but it's disabled by default.
21:59 < dviola> anyone have experience using a usb flash drive as a swap device? can one expect to lose data in case the flash drive gets corrupted and a process is being swapped in/out?
21:59 < poptix> you should definitely expect to lose data if you corrupt your swap device.
22:00 < hexnewbie> Hopefully only volatile data (but *corruption* can do worse things)
22:00 < arduiko> can we using email name in UTF-16 or ?
22:00 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Email name?
22:01 < arduiko> I would like something あえいおう@outlook.com
22:01 < arduiko> something like*
22:01 < arduiko> non latin email name
22:02 < hexnewbie> arduiko: IDN is supported for email addresses in addition to domain names
22:03 < revel> I think you mean UTF-8, and you'll have to ask Microsoft for that.
22:03 < revel> And ASCII instead of latin.
22:03 < s10gopal> i have installed  kernel but i cant see it in grub , how to fix it ?
22:03 < revel> I'm guessing the answer is "no" for Outlook and "maybe" if you are your own provider.
22:04 < arduiko> I already asked that but it was just a feedback, nothing else lol
22:04 < revel> s10gopal: grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg
22:04 < arduiko> so I need server that support IDN email
22:04 < revel> Or grub-update on Debian and/or its derivatives, maybe.
22:04 < djph> not to mention the *other* side also supporting it
22:04 < arduiko> is it exist ?
22:05 < nobrain> dat grammar
22:05 < hexnewbie> Vowel-only email addresses will confuse the recipient, though.
22:05 < djph> dviola: well, one can expect to lose data from spinning rust if it goes sideways whilst swapping too; so ...
22:05 < s10gopal> revel: noow reboot ?
22:06 < arduiko> x)
22:06 < dviola> djph: right
22:06 < revel> s10gopal: Did the output of that have a line for the kernel you want?
22:06 < s10gopal> revel: yes
22:06 < revel> Then it got added, so, sure.
22:07 < arduiko> hmmm so IDN are not yet implemented in servers as I can see
22:07 < revel> If it was the first kernel entry, then it'll automatically boot into it.
22:07 < arduiko> it s pending request
22:07 < arduiko> Microsoft announces IDN email support on office 365 and also announces partner XgenPlus hosting IDN mailboxes.
22:07 < paddy|> no thanks
22:08 < s10gopal> revel: thx , i can boot the kernel
22:09 < paddy|> s10gopal: congrats for that achievement
22:09 < s10gopal> thx
22:09 < paddy|> :)
22:10 < dviola> djph: although my spinning rust have been working for 10 years straight, I don't know how reliable this usb flash drive must be
22:10 < jim> please expand the thx :)
22:10 < arduiko> my god, it s so recent. Postfix mailer supports internationalized mail since 2015-02-08
22:11 < arduiko> Google support it but do not allow to create utf-8 email :D
22:12 < SporkWitch> they might not let you compose it in their apps / web interface, but it'll display fine if sent from a real client
22:12 < revel> SporkWitch: I think he meant in the addresses, i.e сталин@gmail.com
22:13 < revel> Since he used あえいおう@outlook.com as an example before.
22:13 < jim> SporkWitch, long time no see :)
22:13 < arduiko> oh I succeed to sent an email with non latin name
22:14 < arduiko> I got no error from gmail server
22:14 < SporkWitch> revel: ah; i'd have to check the RFCs, not sure what's officially allowed / supported
22:14 < arduiko> I talked too fast :D
22:14 < arduiko> A communication failure occurred during the delivery of this message. Please try to resend the message later. If the problem continues, contact your email admin.
22:14 < revel> arduiko: You're thinking of ASCII, not latin. Fully numeric addresses aren't latin, but they're ASCII, therefore definitely supported.
22:14 < arduiko> ok
22:16 < arduiko> Else I forgot to ask a question about keyboard driver in linux, does it send an empty data report to the keyboard when changing keyboard layout ?
22:16 < arduiko> like the shortcut windows + space for windows
22:16 < arduiko> it s little annoying because it make no sense :D
22:17 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Yeah, it's recent. I feel like the entirety of Unicode is in itself recent. When I started using computers, you had ASCII and an character set in the high part of the character map using local encoding which varied by changing the font. So áëìõú was I normally saw instead of words. (And Unicode was technically standard for years) Then I switched to GNU/Linux, pre-FreeType (userspace), where Unicode support was... worse.
22:18 < arduiko> ok :p
22:18 < hexnewbie> What's an empty data report?
22:19 < arduiko> well it s a data report with a Report ID but fill of zero
22:19 < arduiko> as example for signal that numlock is on or off
22:19 < arduiko> it send a data report
22:20 < arduiko> hold on I retrieve it :D
22:20 < hexnewbie> Changing a keyboard layout shouldn't send anything to the keyboard. Well, in my case I have configured xkb to light up the scrolllock  LED, so it *does*, but it shouldn't.
22:21 < arduiko> strange then
22:21 < arduiko> I report it to msdn and wait the anwser
22:21 < djph> hexnewbie: although is the LED controlled by the computer, or by the keyboard itself?
22:22 < arduiko> oh my bad
22:22 < arduiko> changing layout send a data report, but not empty
22:22 < arduiko> its just send the     how to say
22:22 < arduiko> the LED states
22:22 < arduiko> once again
22:22 < hexnewbie> arduiko: In your case, Japanese requires a complex input method through a higher level (application support + ibus/fcitx/uim), which may or may not touch the actual keyboard layout when activated (so reporting back to the keyboard may or may not happen; reason for how I answered your first question)
22:23 < arduiko> in summary it send the NumLock. CapsLock and ScrollLock states
22:23 < hexnewbie> djph: I don't know at this stage. In my case, it shouldn't.
22:23 < hexnewbie> djph: But for an actual Scroll Lock key, I don't know
22:23 < djph> hexnewbie: yeah, that's why I was asking :|
22:24 < hexnewbie> djph: In my case, the Windows key turns the scroll lock LED (switches the layout, and lights up the LED). There's no way the keyboard  is doing it ;)
22:25 < arduiko> But why windows would send the LED states after changing keyboard layout
22:25 < djph> hexnewbie: yeah, that's ... completely different than normal :)
22:25 < hexnewbie> However, arduiko has a Kana lock (with a LED or indicator of some sort), which X should treat like a regular modifier with an on/off state (like num lock) as long as that modifier is enabled.
22:26 < djph> yup
22:26 < djph> ... or something like that anyway
22:26 < hexnewbie> And whatever high level input method is used should respect that
22:26 < arduiko> it would be a big problem that there is no support, I just need a driver for that
22:27 < arduiko> just to add a LED support xD
22:27 < snatcher> efi stub kernel doesn't initialize system, noting happened after "random: crng init done", ctrl+alt+delete works and produce some text, any ideas what can be wrong and how to debug it? root specified in CONFIG_CMDLINE with root=PARTUUID=
22:27 < hexnewbie> The LED is supported, and should appear in /sys/class/leds. Your trouble is, will X11 and the input method take advantage of it ;)
22:29 < arduiko> ah ok but I talk for Windows x)
22:29 < arduiko> my bad :D
22:29 < hexnewbie> snatcher: Hm. That's weird. PARTUUID= should be supported
22:29 < arduiko> what you mean by advantage ?
22:30 < arduiko> well the Kana LED will just show the switch between Romaji or Kana input
22:30 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Will the input method (ibus-anthy presumably, but could be something different depending on GNU/Linux distro and your liking) know about Kana lock and the LED.
22:30 < arduiko> Kana ON if Kana input and OFF if Romaji input
22:30 < hexnewbie> snatcher: Not even a panic that it failed to mount root?
22:31 < arduiko> Else is it complicated to communicate with USB device in Linux ?
22:32 < nobrain> yes
22:32 < arduiko> ok
22:32 < nobrain> goodbye
22:32 < arduiko> :D
22:34 < hexnewbie> arduiko: Romaji input - does that mean writing latin letters, or writing kana syllables using the latin letter equivalent keys? Cause if the latter, what's the exact purpose of that LED?
22:34 < snatcher> hexnewbie: no panic, even not sure about "failed to mount root" there is no message about it, just nothing happened after "random: crng init done", another weird thing is ctrl+alt+delete works with some kernel response
22:34 < arduiko> hexnewbie yes, Romaji mean Latin letters and Kana mean Japanese letters
22:35 < hexnewbie> snatcher: "random: crng init done" is where a batch of my badly configured KVM/QEMU machines (un)freeze after freezing during boot for 1 minute, but I suspect that's a coincidence
22:35 < arduiko> Romaji is the roman translation of Japanese
22:35 < arduiko> like for any other non Latin language
22:35 < hexnewbie> arduiko: So exactly like my use of scroll lock for changing the layout then :)
22:35 < hexnewbie> scroll lock LED, rather
22:36 < arduiko> hexnewbie yet it will be usefull for Japanese keyboard, if the person want to type in Latin or in Japanese, he will know it via the Kana LED
22:37 < snatcher> is order of CONFIG_CMDLINE parameters important?
22:38 < hexnewbie> arduiko: There will be an icon (possibly a flag) in the notification area, or a floating toolbar with the input mode, and there's even gkrellm plugin for it. You'd know. ;p
22:38 < hexnewbie>  　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　
22:39 < arduiko> yes I know it but like there is a Numlock LED, I dont know why Kana key will not have its own
22:39 < arduiko> but whatever :D
22:39 < hexnewbie> Sorry, did something wrong here.
22:40 < arduiko> and need another LED, Hiragana or Katakana :D
22:40 < arduiko> complicated lol
22:44 < zenix_2k2> one question, how can i get the PIDs only on the currently opening tty ???
22:44 < zenix_2k2> ps gives more than just only the PIDs
22:45 < arduiko> And can we enter UTF-16 character for password in linux P
22:45 < arduiko> ?
22:45 < revel> zenix_2k2: It's in the manpage.
22:46 < revel> arduiko: Why would anyone use UTF-16? Use UTF-8 instead.
22:46 < arduiko> yes UTF-8 if you want
22:47 < revel> That's what everyone uses.
22:47 < arduiko> Windows allow only ASCII :/
22:47 < revel> I'm pretty sure Windows has UTF-8 support.
22:47 < arduiko> same as website
22:47 < hexnewbie> arduiko: UTF-16 is only popular in Windows and as internal representation in some programming tools (e.g. Python, but even it switched to UTF-32). Unix/Linux/GNU, the web, IRC, as well as anything partially ASCII-compatible uses UTF-8
22:47 < revel> Websites also support UTF-8.
22:47 < arduiko> WIndows use UTF-16
22:47 < arduiko> but not for its password
22:48 < SporkWitch> revel: it may, but it may also require some fun with the registry to enable.  Lots of stuff you CAN do in windows but they don't expose it in any useful or accessible way
22:48 < revel> SporkWitch: I think you meant arduiko.
22:48 < SporkWitch> revel: heck, you can hack the registry to allow focus-follows-mouse in windows, but it breaks things
22:48 < revel> Oh, right, thought you meant the password thing.
22:48 < arduiko> yes
22:48 < SporkWitch> revel: no, you said you were pretty sure windows has utf-8 support, i was responding to that
22:49 < revel> Yeah, got it now.
22:49 < zenix_2k2> there are too many options on man ps, which one is the right one ?
22:49 < SporkWitch> zenix_2k2: the one that does what you want :)
22:49 < revel> zenix_2k2: Searching for "tty" in the manpage may help.
22:49 < SporkWitch> zenix_2k2: you might also look into the "jobs" command, if you're looking for stuff owned by the current tty/vty
22:51 < arduiko> SporkWitch what is focus-follows-mouse ?
22:51 < zenix_2k2> jobs doesn't return anything i think
22:51 < zenix_2k2> i have just tried
22:51 < SporkWitch> arduiko: exactly what it sounds like
22:52 < arduiko> ahhhhh
22:53 < arduiko> auto focus ?
22:53 < SporkWitch> no, focus-follows-mouse
22:53 < zenix_2k2> oh wait, i thin i got a solution
22:53 < zenix_2k2> anyway thank
22:54 < strixdio> anyone here use linux to host images/disks for "diskless" clients? I'm looking to do windows10 and linux distros. Not sure what the best option(s) are.
22:54 < arduiko> it s focus windows where the mouser pointer is
22:55 < arduiko> personally it will make me nightmare :D
22:55 < arduiko> I like click click x)
22:55 < [R]> strixdio: option for what
22:55 < SporkWitch> it has its uses; makes it clear what has focus, saves clicks, lets you interact with things without bringing them to the foreground
22:55 < strixdio> [R]: in other words, iscsi, nfs, etc
22:55 < arduiko> it sound like a video game feature
22:55 < arduiko> for GUI
22:55 < arduiko> lol
22:56 < [R]> strixdio: use whichever works best for your situation...
22:56 < SporkWitch> arduiko: it has nothing to do with video games and everything to do with another way of interacting with a GUI.  Just because Windows uses click-to-focus doesn't mean it's the best or only way to handle focus.
22:57 < geheimnisse> free bobby shmurda
22:57 < arduiko> Else I often pass the mouse pointer over window without the wish to interact with it
22:57 < strixdio> [R]: also, I'm not sure what exists for this. I know the computers can be booted from PXE, but to "what" specifically? I'd like to be able to choose during boot, but IDK what exists. not sure what it's called so I'm having trouble googling it.
22:57 < [R]> PXE is for loading a bootloader
22:57 < [R]> thats about it
22:58 < [R]> what you do from there is up to you
22:58 < [R]> my pxe loads a bootloader which then copies a kernel and ramdisk over tftp
22:58 < [R]> and then my ramdisks does magic
22:58 < SporkWitch> arduiko: that's not really an issue unless that or another application DO things simply because focus changed.  That is, in fact, why enabling it in windows breaks things: many context menus and tooltips instantly close because they close as soon as the thing you hovered over to make it appear loses focus
22:58 < strixdio> [R]: would that be applicable to windows too?
22:58 < [R]> no clue what windows does
22:58 < alexandre9099> hi, do you know any self hosted image album website?
22:58 < [R]> who knows what kind of silly proprietary crap they do
22:59 < strixdio> afaik there's a way to treat a diskless sysem as if an iscsi drive is local
22:59 < arduiko> SporkWitch ok
22:59 < phogg> alexandre9099: You want some Linux software that allows you to host your own image album web site?
22:59 < [R]> well then there you go, go with taht
23:00 < alexandre9099> phogg,  yes (maybe not the best place to ask, but yea :D)
23:00 < SporkWitch> alexandre9099: media goblin and owncloud spring to mind
23:00 < [R]> alexandre9099: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_photo_gallery_software
23:00 < phogg> alexandre9099: I can't recommend any, but you can find some with some trivial google searches
23:00 < phogg> I also just found http://piwigo.org/
23:01 < alexandre9099> SporkWitch [R] phogg: thanks :)
23:01 < alexandre9099> i'll check those
23:01 < [R]> phogg: lies... damn dirty lies
23:04 < SporkWitch> [R]: http://inlovewithpyros0.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/abearwhospeakslies.jpg
23:04 < [R]> lol?
23:04 < SporkWitch> [R]: your comment made me think of it lol; it's from Johnny the Homicidal Maniac
23:31 < niklob> This is the most pointless irc channel
23:32 < [R]> niklob: we're sorry you feel that way
23:32 < niklob> wew
23:32 < SporkWitch> [R]: speak for yourself
23:32 < niklob> sorry, but usually nobody answers
23:32 < niklob> too many notifications
23:32 < revel> Did you even ask anything?
23:32 < niklob> i did many times
23:33 < pnbeast> Does he really have to ask, revel?  Can't you just tell what he wants and explain it?  Come on.
23:33 < niklob> but it's been a while
23:33 < niklob> let me try again
23:33 < niklob> Does anybody know what going on with bus1?
23:33 < pnbeast> Please do.  We're all awash with anticipation.  And really eager to help you, now.
23:33 < revel> niklob: Nope, no idea.
23:33 < revel> There, an answer :D
23:33 < niklob> :D
23:33 < pnbeast> It was really smart how you warmed us up to answer you, in advance.
23:34 < niklob> you see there are maybe 1 or 2% of the users in this channel who could answer it
23:34 < niklob> but chances are they are never going to read the question, because of all the ontifications
23:35 < [R]> it comes before bus2?
23:35 < pnbeast> [R], are you an ontification?
23:35 < [R]> niklob: of you just say retarded things
23:35 < revel> Then looking elsewhere for info sounds like a better idea.
23:35 < [R]> so no oneis going to reply to a retarded thing
23:35  * pnbeast is sure someone is an ontification, but not even that it's [R], the way it usually is when someone is something.
23:35 < SporkWitch> Is this the part where i point out that two people just DID respond to a retarded thing? :P
23:36 < niklob> wew. [R] is really triggered
23:36 < phaedral> niklob: There are ways to filter out notifications, depending on your irc client.
23:36 < phaedral> And the folks who can answer you prolly are using such filters.
23:37 < niklob> phaedral: thanks. that's something my potential chat partners would need to do though :D
23:37 < pnbeast> iamfrankenstein, did you build niklob?
23:37 < niklob> yes
23:37 < revel> niklob: I don't think you've said anything on this channel in 2 months...
23:38 < niklob> Sorry, read your answer oo late
23:38 < niklob> revel: possibly
23:38 < revel> Before 5 minutes ago, that is.
23:38 < [R]> so you've never said anything... but complaining that no one answers you?
23:38 < [R]> i think you have to say somethign before someone can answer you...
23:38 < revel> Yep.
23:38 < niklob> not true
23:38 < revel> [R]: <pnbeast> Does he really have to ask, revel?  Can't you just tell what he wants and explain it?  Come on.
23:38 < niklob> time existed before two months ago
23:39 < revel> And yet you stuck around, despite this channel being terrible...
23:39 < [R]> i have logs going back to the beeginning of time
23:39 < [R]> and i dont see anthin from you at all
23:39 < phaedral> niklob: You've an interesting approach to getting folks to help you, for free, with arguably valuable information...
23:39 < niklob> better than my previous approach
23:40 < [R]> which is not saying anything
23:40 < [R]> and hoping people would know he needs somethign
23:40 < niklob> just asking -> no reponse
23:40 < revel> I think I preferred that one, actually.
23:41 < niklob> [R]: the universe is older than two months
23:41 < phaedral> This isn't paid customer support. No one owes you a response. I often post a question and get no reply, doesn't mean I get upset. Folks are busy...
23:41 < SporkWitch> i've figured it out: niklob is a feminist, she expects us all to pschically know what she needs and bend over backwards to help her regardless of being an insufferable cunt
23:41 < SporkWitch> s/psch/psych/
23:41 < [R]> haha
23:41 < revel> Makes sense, I suppose.
23:42 < pnbeast> niklob, good on you, you've uncovered issues with someone else!
23:43 < Dagmar> Pfft.  I've yet to see a reason why that should be a kernel function
23:43 < revel> Dagmar: Are you scrolled up a bit?
23:43 < joxahlai> can xfs be shrinked yet?
23:45 < [R]> joxahlai: yet? rofl
23:45 < [R]> joxahlai: you say that as if it's a feature they've overlooked
23:45 < joxahlai> is it not?
23:45 < SporkWitch> how about that GNU HERD? :P
23:46 < [R]> if it's been 24 years
23:46 < [R]> and it still doesnt support it
23:46 < revel> SporkWitch: Not production-ready "yet"
23:46 < [R]> i thin it's safe to say it was designed not to
23:46 < SporkWitch> revel: i thought the topic was vaporware :)
23:46 < revel> [R]: Or, rather, "not designed to"
23:46 < joxahlai> so ext4 it is I guess
23:47 < SporkWitch> btrfs has been quite stable for some time now; from waht i understand the only thing keeping it in "experimental" status is incomplete RAID5 support
23:47 < revel> Use ext2 instead and live life on the edge :D
23:48 < [R]> i can't belive it's not butter, fs
23:48 < revel> Or btrfs if you want to jump off the edge.
23:48 < SuperSeriousCat> I hear btrfs is losing support more and more
23:49 < hexnewbie> When you butter your FS, during a kernel panic why does it always fall with the butter side down?
23:49 < SporkWitch> SuperSeriousCat: if true, that's sad; i've been fond of it :(
23:49 < revel> SporkWitch: Are you fond of your data though? :D
23:49 < SuperSeriousCat> SporkWitch, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14907771
23:50 < SporkWitch> revel: as i said, it's been quite stable for quite some time, the only thing holding it back from graduation to production ready from experimental was that RAID5 issue
23:51 < revel> I thought it was it gobbling data like /dev/null, at least in my experience.
23:51 < SuperSeriousCat> Its depricated in RHEL
23:51 < SporkWitch> SuperSeriousCat: going by the first reply on that thread, the issue is that btrfs has EXCELLENT support, but it's too fast for RHEL's release schedule
23:52 < [R]> revel: they should call it turkeyfs
23:52 < SporkWitch> SuperSeriousCat: at minimum, it makes it sound like it's still very actively supported, RHEL just isn't bothering any more.
23:53 < SporkWitch> SuperSeriousCat: also worth pointing out that lots of deprecated stuff sticks around lol (net-tools anyone? lol)
23:53 < revel> [R]: I don't know, naming filesystems after living organisms hasn't worked out well for the organisms' wives so far.
23:53 < SporkWitch> revel: i've never had any issues with data loss with btrfs and i've been using it for over a decade now.
23:53 < revel> (wow, what a terrible joke)
23:54 < [R]> revel: reiser is an organism?
23:54 < Dagmar> revel: I *did* scroll up a bit to see what the kerfluffle was about.  Clearly I shoudln't have bothered
23:54 < [R]> or are you saying because thats his name?
23:54 < revel> Hold on, let me check Wikipedia.
23:54 < revel> I think he qualifies as an organism.
23:54 < Dagmar> No one's made a decent argument for a notification bus to be _in_ the kernel.  They appear to think that "i want it" is justification enough
23:54 < revel> Oh, bus1.
23:55 < [R]> Dagmar: isn't that generally how things work?
23:55 < [R]> a dev writes somethign
23:55 < Dagmar> Not with the kernel it's not.
23:55 < revel> [R]: I think he checks off as an organism.
23:55 < [R]> and linus says "make it so"
23:55 < Dagmar> The kernel has a pretty specific job, and exposing it to idiot users to write into willy-nilly is generally considered a bad idea
23:55 < [R]> lol
23:59 < [R]> Dagmar: but it's lightweight AND scalable...
23:59 < Dagmar> That doesn't mean it should become the kernel's job
23:59 < Dagmar> Sweeping all the clockcycles under the rug of the kernel's other duties also doesn't makee something lightweight
23:59 < hexnewbie> The features as described do not seem implementable using userspace-level APIs. And having it is no different than aving CONFIG_SYSVIPC, which already in the kernel. Or as doors would be if Linux ever implemented those.
--- Log closed Sun Apr 08 00:00:30 2018