--- Log opened Sun Apr 08 00:00:30 2018
--- Day changed Sun Apr 08 2018
00:00 < Dagmar> A shame they can't figure out IPC
00:00 < hexnewbie> Giving doors as an example, because FIFOs and Unix sockets (standard for userspace IPC) require kernel support as much as doors do.
00:00 < azarus> How does the iwlwifi driver compare to mt76?
00:00 < [R]> azarus: how does that even make sense?
00:01 < azarus> [R]: In regards to quality. How much of the work is actually done by the driver, and not handed off to the firmware.
00:01 < hexnewbie> Whether two processes will talk through a Unix socket (with mediation by the kernel), or through /dev/bus1 (with  mediation from the kernel) doesn't make a whole lot of difference
00:01 < [R]> well, it's open source...
00:01 < [R]> so just look at how much code there is
00:01 < [R]> lol
00:02 < [R]> hexnewbie: SCOPE CREEP!
00:02 < azarus> Well... I'd like some second opinions on it.
00:02 < azarus> Else I wouldn't be asking.
00:02 < Dagmar> hexnewbie: That would be an argument _against_ writing Yet Another IPC
00:02 < [R]> azarus: lol
00:03 < azarus> ...?
00:03 < azarus> I know, quite a general and rather subjective question, but hey, this is ##linux, right?
00:04 < [R]> subjective?
00:04 < [R]> lol
00:04 < Dagmar> azarus: It can be summed up by "One was written by professional engineers at Intel and the other was written by 'some guys in China'"
00:04 < azarus> lol
00:04 < azarus> yes
00:04 < [R]> i woudln't trust any networking hardware from mediatek
00:04 < [R]> then again... i woudln't trust a cpu from them either
00:05 < Dagmar> Not with China's rather freewheeling approach to privacy and security I wouldn't
00:05 < [R]> we were trying to pick a processor at work once... i mentioned mediatek
00:05 < azarus> I've seen this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiUosbhR0Wo
00:05 < [R]> we all had a good laugh
00:05 < Dagmar> ...not to mention intellectual property in general
00:05 < azarus> The main developer of the mt76 driver held that talk.
00:06 < azarus> He might even convince the mediatek guys to release all their firmware, he mentioned.
00:06 < [R]> release their firmwre!
00:06 < [R]> how wonderful
00:06 < [R]> make me up when they start respecting the GPL
00:06 < [R]> let alone releasing firwamre
00:06 < azarus> If that would happen, that'd be the first 802.11ac capable driver in Linux capable of running without proprietary firmware :)
00:07 < azarus> Oh, mediatek hired Felix Fietkau to write a free driver for their newer chips
00:07 < [R]> oh, well that changes everything!
00:08 < pnbeast> Man, we tried to hire Felix for *years*.  They got him?  That explains everything.
00:08 < SporkWitch> oh,i hope there's good 802.11AC support by the time i build my next desktop; this laptop is getting around 600Mbps right now, but it's only got windows because it's too much headache to dual-boot and i can't just run a windows VM lol
00:08 < hexnewbie> ‘We could write a driver by ourselves, but we couldn't write a *free* driver by ourselves, so we hired a guy!’
00:08 < azarus> Well, hiring a kernel dev seems like a good thing to do.
00:09 < hexnewbie> Yeah, I just don't see how that affects the freedom unless the quality of those proprietary ones was so horrible that... Yeah
00:09 < [R]> morals be damned!
00:09 < [R]> who cares if they dont respect the GPL
00:09 < Dagmar> I am not joking when I say my usual solution to some of these wifi issues is to replace the miniPCIe one with an Intel card and burn the old card
00:09 < [R]> Dagmar: azarus is trying to convince us the intel driver is evil
00:10 < [R]> or something like that
00:10 < hexnewbie> Who is that Felix Favreau and why does everyone want to hire him, though?
00:10 < Dagmar> Yeah well, the Intel drivers actually reliably work
00:10 < azarus> no, iwlwifi is decent
00:10 < azarus> never said they were bad
00:10 < Dagmar> Realtek is hit or miss and Atheros varies pretty widely as well
00:10 < Dagmar> However, *fire* reliably makes it all better
00:11 < azarus> ath9k is working very well for me
00:11 < Dagmar> azarus; I've had some that actually only reported a _single_ value for signal strength
00:11 < Dagmar> That's not only _useless_ but generally results in *PERPETUAL AP-HOPPING* in a multi-AP environment
00:12  * azarus might try an Intel Wireless AC 7260 then
00:13 < [R]> well, its not super terrific chinese spyware
00:13 < Dagmar> It's annoying that we're largely down to _just_ Intel for reliable stuff, but at least there's a lot of cheap grey-market hardware
00:13 < [R]> so, thats good
00:14 < azarus> [R]: How's Intel any better than some random Chinese company?
00:14 < hexnewbie> I just switch off the integrated iwlwifi and attach a USB realtek radio ;p
00:14 < SporkWitch> looks like the card in this laptop is an intel 8265; in windows at least i'm getting ~600Mbps on speedtest (1Gbps downstream connection; i get about 995Mbps when cabled directly to the fibre modem)
00:14 < azarus> They're both terrible :P
00:14 < [R]> azarus: lol
00:14 < Dagmar> azarus: Because while US politicians might be corrupt, they generally throw execs under the bus when they find them doing something morally questionable
00:14 < Dagmar> China gives them a new hat.
00:15 < azarus> Intel wants your data, Mediatek wants your data. Pick your poison.
00:15 < azarus> I'm not in the US, so not sure if that applies to me.
00:15 < Dagmar> This isn't about snooping.
00:15 < [R]> mediatek will give it up to the chinese government
00:15 < Dagmar> It's about bloody espionage
00:16 < votz> Hi guys. For reasons unknown, the Intel HD Graphics 530 integrated GPU doesn't appear as a 'VGA compatible controller' under lspci, and the monitor connected to it isn't detected in Displays (even though it is on and working, with Linux Mint's single green dot being painted to the middle of it). How can I enable the integrated Intel HD Graphics adapter and add the monitor connected to it to the multi-monitor display configuration?
00:17 < hexnewbie> votz: This sounds like something one does through the system firmware (BIOS/UEFI)
00:18 < votz> hexnewbie: I enabled iGPU multi-monitor in BIOS
00:18 < votz> hexnewbie: Any other options need to be enabled or disabled?
00:18 < [R]> so i have a chicken/egg problem... it's so fun... my kernel needs to contain the root hash for my filesystem, but its contained within the filesystem...
00:19 < votz> Also the integrated GPU and monitor definitely work: the display is on, receiving a signal, and has a green dot painted in the middle (Linux Mint's default output, I assume).
00:19 < azarus> [R]: boot a live system?
00:19 < [R]> azarus: what?
00:19 < azarus> [R]: you know, something so you can change your kernel config with?
00:19 < revel> [R]: initramfs
00:19 < [R]> revel: right... the initramfs is in the kernel
00:19 < hexnewbie> [R]: We had a developer who came up that design *on purpose*
00:20 < [R]> i think i'll have to put the initramfs separately
00:20 < [R]> which is gonna be lame
00:20 < hexnewbie> [R]: Or rather came up with a similar design, insisting on keeping a hash inside the hashed document, and never really understood why ‘nobody liked the idea’
00:20 < [R]> hexnewbie: well i know its obviously impossible
00:20 < revel> [R]: So, is the hash for / ? Would having a seperate /boot fix it...?
00:21 < [R]> revel: well yeah, keeping a separate initramfs is the solution
00:21 < [R]> but i dont want to do that
00:21 < revel> Or stick the hash in /boot
00:21 < [R]> the hash is going to be in the initramfs
00:21 < [R]> and i have no /boot
00:21 < revel> Is this Android...?
00:21 < [R]> no
00:21 < [R]> but it is embedded
00:21 < UnderSampled> Hello
00:22 < revel> Vaguely reminds me of some Android thing I have a vague understanding of.
00:22 < [R]> lol
00:22 < revel> Right, dm-verity
00:22 < [R]> android doesnt keep their kernel in their filesystem
00:22 < [R]> yes, i'm tryign to implement verity
00:22 < SporkWitch> revel: how about you share some of that hash? ^_-
00:23  * revel gives SporkWitch the hash browns
00:23 < revel> s/the/some/
00:23 < [R]> of course, the docuemtnation on it is atrocious
00:23 < UnderSampled> So, when you provide a kernel command line, even if you're using a initramfs, you still use root= to provide a root filesystem...Is this just a variable that the initramfs init script can use to know what to load, or does the kernel eventually use that itself?
00:23 < [R]> UnderSampled: the initramfs looks at it
00:24 < UnderSampled> [R]: How?
00:24 < [R]> UnderSampled: it looks at /proc/cmdline
00:24 < UnderSampled> :D
00:24 < UnderSampled> cool
00:27 < UnderSampled> [R]: Does anything else use look at the cmdline, or is it purely for init
00:27 < [R]> anyone can look at it
00:27 < [R]> its got 444
00:27 < revel> By default, that is.
00:28 < UnderSampled> I meant during boot -- is the kernel looking at it for other functions, or is it really only "userspace"
00:28 < [R]> the kernel makes it...
00:28 < mawk> /proc is for userspace
00:29 < revel> I'm pretty sure it looks at it for some stuff, i.e nopti
00:29 < UnderSampled> I mean does the kernel command line get used for anything in the kernel, or is it only just put in /proc for other things to look at
00:29 < revel> But you can add arbitrary stuff to it.
00:29 < revel> Or semi-arbitrary, at least.
00:29 < ryouma> i plugged in a new drive, but i do not know if it is showing up.  i have /dev/sdd, but it does not appear in lsblk.  "fdisk: cannot open /dev/sdd: No medium found".  is the new drive dead?
00:30 < hexnewbie> ryouma: How did you conclude /dev/sdd is the new drive?
00:30 < [R]> UnderSampled: well seeing as you know the kernel looks at root= in it... i think you already know the answer
00:30 < ryouma> hexnewbie: i didn't.  it was a total guess.
00:30 < [R]> ryouma: what does it say in dmesg
00:31 < UnderSampled> [R]: I thought you just said only the init script looked at it
00:31 < UnderSampled> (root= specifically)
00:31 < ryouma> what do i look for in /var/log messages?  i ahve rebooted a few times since.
00:31 < [R]> UnderSampled: i did...
00:31 < hexnewbie> ryouma: dmesg may be stored in /var/log/kern.log on [insert distros here]
00:31 < [R]> UnderSampled: and if you dont have initramfs... like you already talked about...
00:32 < UnderSampled> oh
00:32 < hexnewbie> ryouma: Is it a removable drive so you can plug it out and in again (to see what appears in dmesg), or a fixed drive?
00:33 < ryouma> yes it is but i am physically incapable of oding so.  i can ask somebody if absoluytely necesasry.
00:33 < ryouma> debian
00:34 < ryouma> there is no samsung listed in /var/log/* if that matters
00:34 < hexnewbie> ryouma: lsblk -o +MODEL
00:35 < ryouma> new one not listed
00:35 < hexnewbie> ryouma: lsscsi
00:37 < ryouma> the only non-old ones are something that says enclosu (probably the enclosure for an old drive or somethign) and "[9:0:0:0]    disk    Generic- SD/MMC/MS/MSPRO  1.00  /dev/sdd"
00:37 < ryouma> "[0:0:0:1]    enclosu WD       SES Device       1012  -        "
00:38 < ryouma> so maybe that first one is it?
00:40 < hexnewbie> That's a card reader. So unless your new drive is a card, it wouldn't be it. The enclosure would be usually a thing that can you put disk inside (more than one, although I've used enclosures for a single disk - though they weren't visible in Linux)
00:41 < hexnewbie> ryouma: Is that a regular SAS/SATA disk somebody put inside the enclosure?
00:43 < ryouma> no i am guessing that when you plug in an external portable hard drive (my old one) it shows up as both the drive and as an enclosure
00:43 < ryouma> just a guess
00:43 < ryouma> i don't have any do it yourself enclosures
00:43 < hexnewbie> USB portable hard drive?
00:44 < hexnewbie> It would be very weird if a USB portable drive showed up as a(n) SAS enclosure
00:46 < Dagmar> It should be easy enough to tail the syslog and then replug the drive to find out
00:50 < hexnewbie> It just occurred to me that parallel SCSI drives are attached serially, and serial-attached SCSI drives can be attached in parallel
00:53 < UnderSampled> ls
00:53 < UnderSampled> :/
00:53 < txt23> Looking for a good commanline utility to convert .doc, .docx, .gif, .jpeg, .png (images) to a .PDF format. Can someone point me in the righ direction please?
00:54 < DLange> txt23: libreoffice has a batch mode
00:54 < DLange> (for doc and docx)
00:55 < DLange> for images use convert from imagemagick
00:55 < hexnewbie> There's also unoconv, which uses LibreOffice's UNO bindings
00:56 < ryouma> hexnewbie: then idk what the two entries are or whether either corrsponds to the new drive
00:56 < hexnewbie> ryouma: Is it a USB drive, though?
00:56 < ryouma> yes
00:56 < hexnewbie> ryouma: Does it show up in lsusb?
00:57 < txt23> Thanks DLange and hexnewbie. Ideally want one to do it all so its easier on the code. WIll checkout unoconv as its based on libreoffice.
00:58 < ryouma> hexnewbie: seemingly no.  at least no samsung there.  there is Chicony Electronics Co., Ltd.
00:59 < hexnewbie> That could be a keyboard or something.
01:00 < aokfire> Looking for anyone else using sylpheed and if there's a way to setup separate email accounts to seaparate folders?
01:00 < aokfire> not sure what channel to ask
01:00 < [R]> sylpheed is still a thing?
01:01 < aokfire> something I found. not sure what else there is
01:01 < aokfire> claws looks nice but I think it uses MBox and not Maildir
01:01 < hexnewbie> Why wouldn't sylpheed still be a thing?
01:01 < [R]> claws is still a thing?
01:01 < aokfire> ... what do you use [R] lol
01:01 < [R]> thunderbird of course
01:01 < [R]> lol
01:01 < DLange> #sylpheed and #sylpheed-claws have two users each :)
01:02 < TJ-> ryouma: Chicony is likely a webcam
01:02 < [R]> 2 more than i thought...
01:02 < hexnewbie> With the recent developments, I was thinking of switching to Sylpheed
01:02 < revel> hexnewbie: What developments?
01:02 < azarus> #mutt
01:03 < aokfire> I don't like that Thunderbird has calls to Google in it
01:03 < aokfire> found that in about:config
01:03 < aokfire> tons of external URLs in it
01:03 < azarus> because screw GUIs
01:03 < aokfire> why
01:03 < [R]> oh no!
01:03 < [R]> not google
01:03 < hexnewbie> revel: KDE PIM getting obliterated and becoming extremely slow. And Firefox Quantum.
01:03 < aokfire>  fuck google
01:03 < revel> KDE PIM?
01:03 < hexnewbie> With Thunderbird dead, and KDE PIM dead, I thought Sylpheed was my only option ;p
01:03 < revel> hexnewbie: Thunderbird's semi-seperate from Mozilla, isn't it?
01:03 < SporkWitch> revel: kontact and its associated suite of tools such as kmail
01:04 < revel> hexnewbie: Oh, I thought you meant regarding Thunderbird.
01:04 < hexnewbie> revel: Thunderbird has to port everything to the new Firefox Quantum code. They don't have the people to maintain the old Mozilla code.
01:04 < aokfire> uhm so
01:04 < aokfire> what GUI client should I us
01:04 < revel> Oh.
01:04 < [R]> webmail
01:04  * [R] giggles
01:04 < hexnewbie> (Dead is a hyperbole of course, but I'm not sure you how even things like Enigmail would work)
01:04 < stevendale> Hey
01:05 < aokfire> that stores emails in separate account folders with separate file output :/
01:05 < stevendale> Fell asleep while updating to 17.10 hexnewbie
01:05 < revel> Doesn't seem quite dead yet to me.
01:05 < aokfire> so account 1 - mail - 1,2,3
01:05 < aokfire> account 2 - mail - 1,2,3
01:05 < aokfire> which client does this, Thunderbird?
01:05 < [R]> yup
01:05 < aokfire> b-but the google codez
01:05 < aokfire> in about:config
01:05  * [R] shakes his head
01:05 < hexnewbie> Given what extensions don't (and can't) work with Firefox, I don't see how Enigmail can ever be supported if Thunderbird gets updated to WebExtensions-only
01:05 < aokfire> my other concern is portability of emails. I assume they're just plaintext?
01:06 < azarus> aokfire: they can be html as well
01:06 < azarus> so you'd need a browser to render them
01:06 < SporkWitch> aokfire: how do you mean portability?  If you're using IMAP (like you should be) the originals are left on the server.
01:07 < hexnewbie> Yeah, with IMAP you could use one client during the day, and another during the night
01:07 < stevendale> Wondering if it's worth getting xorg-edgers ppa
01:07 < aokfire> isn't IMAP pull to local and delete off remote?
01:07 < aokfire> or is that pop?
01:07 < stevendale> Am on Intel HD Graphics 4000
01:07 < revel> aokfire: That's POP3
01:07 < aokfire> can I setup IMAP to pull to local?
01:07 < aokfire> basically I want to setup a local email client with all my acocunts, pull everything and only have it local
01:07 < revel> Your client probably will.
01:07 < aokfire> is that excessive or stupid?
01:07 < SporkWitch> aokfire: that's POP; IMAP synchronizes bidirectionally (unless you tell it otherwise).  Normally it only pulls the headers to local, not pulling the whole email until you open it, and then still leaving it on the remote server (though flagging it as read)
01:08 < revel> Or you can configure it to.
01:08 < hexnewbie> aokfire: Depending on the mail client and meaning of  ‘pull to local’, yes
01:08 < aokfire> download to local system, remove from remote
01:08 < SporkWitch> aokfire: i'd argue it's excessive and stupid because if you trust the mailserver so little that you're unwilling to leave things on it, you need another mail provider, because there's nothing stopping them making copies and not really deleting them.
01:08 < hexnewbie> aokfire: No mail client supports this directly. But it could be accomplished with filters
01:08 < revel> Why would you?
01:08 < aokfire> why not?
01:08 < SporkWitch> hexnewbie: sure they do...
01:09 < revel> Since POP3 exists for people who want that.
01:09 < aokfire> i think I trust them enough, I also think I don't understand email protocols enough lol
01:09 < aokfire> but all I see is "Pop3 is ancient!!"
01:09 < aokfire> http://www.pop2imap.com/
01:09 < [R]> revel: wwell its called the post office protocol... and the post office as an institution is dead... therefore pop is dead
01:09 < revel> lol
01:10 < aokfire> i am confused lol. sorry
01:10 < revel> Meanwhile, IMAP has internet in its name!
01:10 < revel> I think.
01:10 < [R]> revel: you best not try to mess with me... i have superior logic
01:10 < revel> Yeah.
01:10 < hexnewbie> POP3 is ancient - it's from 1988. IMAP, on the other hand, is from 1986.
01:10 < SporkWitch> aokfire: POP3 _is_ ancient, and generally non-desirable, in no small part for the reason i just mentioned above.  If you can leave it on the remote and sync status across multiple devices, why wouldn't you?  If you don't trust the remote, TELLING it to delete from the remote does nothing, because they could be making copies of everything.
01:10 < revel> lol
01:10 < aokfire> SporkWitch I just realized I'll also have email on my phone
01:10 < aokfire> so
01:10 < aokfire> yeah IMAP it is lmfao
01:10 < aokfire> sorry
01:10 < [R]> in a wrold where you hvae a 1mb mailbox quota
01:10 < [R]> pop3 is fine
01:10 < [R]> in a wworld wher eyou hvae infinite mail store
01:10 < [R]> imap baby
01:10 < aokfire> I have 2GB
01:11 < aokfire> that's why I wanted to pull all to local
01:11 < SporkWitch> aokfire: that's a LOT of plaintext
01:11 < revel> ^
01:11 < hexnewbie> [R]: Infinity plus one
01:11 < aokfire> i bailed on gmail a long time ago
01:11 < [R]> well you're getting screwed if you only have 2g
01:11 < aokfire> and I'm full "fk google"
01:11 < aokfire> not really
01:11 < stevendale> I just use my ISP's email
01:11 < aokfire> posteo
01:11 < SporkWitch> aokfire: attachments may add up, but even that will take a while.  Remote assets don't take up any space, they're pulled dynamically by the MUA
01:12 < aokfire> 12eur for a year access? +1GB for 0.25eur/mth?
01:12 < aokfire> that's pretty fair imo
01:12 < stevendale> Brb
01:12 < [R]> you're paying for email!?
01:12 < aokfire> yes, isn't that insane????
01:13 < [R]> thats like paying to breathe
01:13 < aokfire> I'm no longer a product!
01:13 < aokfire> I'm free!
01:13 < aokfire> and I don't have to manage my own VPS, domain, email server
01:13 < SporkWitch> i suppose you could argue I pay for email, but that's because i'm paying for a VPS that hosts a complete stack replacement for google apps, plus my irc bouncer, and plenty of leftover resources to host arbitrary other stuff lol
01:13 < aokfire> I just leave shit alone, nobody's reading my emails, I'm good!
01:13 < SporkWitch> i also get a fuckload more than 2 measly gig lol
01:13 < aokfire> yeah, I can't deal witha ll that right now SpoF95_
01:13 < aokfire> SporkWitch
01:13 < [R]> SporkWitch: you're full stack!
01:14 < aokfire> I make enough yearly I don't worry about 12Eur
01:14 < [R]> SporkWitch: my old boss asked me once if i was full stack
01:14 < aokfire> I could sell stuff and make enough to pay for email
01:14 < aokfire> lol
01:14 < hexnewbie> My stack is so full it overflows
01:14 < aokfire> oh also
01:14 < aokfire> nobody emails me
01:14 < [R]> hexnewbie: you gotta pop some stuff dude
01:14 < ayecee> should report him for sexual harrassment
01:14 < aokfire> huge benefit there regarding storage space :P
01:14 < revel> aokfire: Not even spambots? Wow, you're lonely :<
01:14 < aokfire> yes :(
01:14 < aokfire> i should join some mailing lists
01:15 < SporkWitch> aokfire: principle of the thing, especially since they probably control what types of attachments and how large they'll accept
01:15 < nobrain> ayecee: can I have your belongings when you die?
01:15 < aokfire> 50MB Attachments
01:15 < SporkWitch> aokfire: just plug your email address into one of those spam filter testing "services"; it'll autosubscribe you to every mailing list on the planet lol
01:15 < aokfire> which is sooooorta limited but
01:15 < hexnewbie> [R]: I can't. I'm a dead BASIC programmer. I only do GOSUB without RETURN.
01:15 < [R]> hexnewbie: lol
01:16 < aokfire> again nobody emails me
01:16 < aokfire> and Im guessing this is outgoing attachments right
01:16 < [R]> aokfire: then why are you paying so much money for a useless service?
01:16 < SporkWitch> ^
01:16 < revel> 12 euros per months isn't a lot, but it still seems to be 12 euros more than he should have to pay.
01:17 < aokfire> [r] what do you pay
01:17 < revel> s/months/year/
01:17 < [R]> PER MONTH!?
01:17 < SporkWitch> 12€/mo is a non-trivial amount of beer
01:17 < aokfire> NO
01:17 < [R]> i thought it was per year
01:17 < aokfire> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
01:17 < aokfire> 12EUR A YEAR
01:17 < b0b> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posteo
01:17 < aokfire> 1eur/month
01:17 < [R]> aokfire: nothing...
01:17 < aokfire> https://posteo.de/en3
01:17 < aokfire> https://posteo.de/en
01:17 < [R]> 1 eur a month?
01:17 < [R]> is this one of those sally struthers commericals?
01:18 < SporkWitch> remember when MSFT charged PER EMAIL? lol
01:18 < moniker--> this is the year of linux desktop
01:18 < stevendale> Should add this to my auto join
01:18  * moniker-- giggles
01:18 < revel> moniker-- is a dumb poopoo head.
01:18  * revel giggles
01:18 < hexnewbie> moniker--: They started phasing out the desktop, then?
01:18  * moniker-- slaps revel with a small asteroid, rich in iron
01:18 < stevendale> Upgraded mesa with xorg-edgers
01:18  * revel stabs moniker--
01:19 < stevendale> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "artful" 17.10 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3340M CPU @ 2.70GHz (2.14GHz) • Memory: Physical: 3.7 GiB Total (2.6 GiB Free) Swap: 3.8 GiB Total (3.8 GiB Free) • Storage: 15.6 GB / 60.2 GB (44.6 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation 3rd Gen Core processor DRAM Controller • Uptime: 5m 56s
01:19 < aokfire> oh great i'm getting shit on for paying for email
01:19  * moniker-- slaps revel with a tuna. Still in the can! *BONK* That will leave a mark
01:19 < SporkWitch> aokfire: you're in a channel about a FOSS OS, on an IRC network devoted to FOSS, are you really surprised to catch flak for paying for the ultimate free service? lol
01:20 < aokfire> ok but
01:20 < aokfire> what alternatives are there
01:20 < aokfire> that respect your privacy
01:20 < aokfire> if you don't pay for the service, you are the product
01:20 < SporkWitch> i2p :)
01:20 < [R]> lol
01:20 < SporkWitch> hey, he asked :P
01:21 < hexnewbie> SporkWitch: There, I knew FOSS was for freeloaders, but I didn't have the proof yet. :p
01:22 < aokfire> i never said that :/
01:22 < aokfire> I think it's great that Linux is FOSS
01:23  * hanetzer likes to think he pays for linux using patches as currency
01:23 < aokfire> perhaps that is the alternative
01:24 < hanetzer> granted, I'm doing more for gentoo specifically than linux in general.
01:24  * revel thinks he's just a freeloader
01:24 < hanetzer> $ bootm revel
01:24 < aokfire> well I can't get a refund without giving them my banking info so
01:25 < hexnewbie> hanetzer: Someone will take that literally, and decide use git commits as a cryptocurrency as a silly joke. Then the joke will reach $3 billion market cap.
01:25 < revel> hanetzer: What's that?
01:25 < hanetzer> revel: u-boot command, a FREE bootLOADER ;)
01:25 < revel> I thought it had something to do with bootloaders.
01:26 < hexnewbie> boot the (free)loaders!
01:26 < revel> Why have mboot in uboot though?
01:26 < hanetzer> granted, u-boot is a little bit more than just a bootloader. bootM, not Mboot
01:26 < hanetzer> boot memory location
01:26 < revel> Right, bootm.
01:27 < revel> Okay, makes sense.
01:27 < hanetzer> typical use case for booting from spi nor with u-boot is sf probe 0; sf read 0x82000000 0x7000 0x37000; bootm 0x82000000
01:45 < coolpup> I have an idea to use xrandr to "ignore" 3/4 of a screen and show everything in the bottom right corner of the display, scaled down
01:45 < coolpup> does that sound like I might be on the right track or is xrandr not the thing I would need to use?
01:45 < nopacienc3> HI
01:46 < coolpup> hi nopacienc3
01:46 < aokfire> yes hello
01:46 < nopacienc3> guys, i want to downscale a 4k monitor to scale 0.5x0.5 via xrandr... however it gets  blurry... is there some solution ?
01:49 < SporkWitch> nopacienc3: LCDs are incapable of displaying anything but their native resolution. If you send it a signal at a lower resolution, it must first upscale it to the native.  If the built-in upscaling is poor, it will look poor.  You'd do better to look for UI scale settings.
01:50 < coolpup> nopacienc3 do you know if xrandr can scale everything down to the bottom quad of screen space?
01:51 < nopacienc3> coolpup: eh ?
01:52 < infinisil> coolpup: xrandr has a transformation matrix you can pass it, so that might just work
02:00 < nopacienc3> oh man i made the "downscale"
02:00 < nopacienc3> via --dpi 220 option
02:00 < nopacienc3> now everything is bigger
02:01 < nobrain> that's what she said
02:01 < coolpup> infinisil thanks, I will look into that
02:02 < infinisil> Oh but it also has simple scale options
02:03 < infinisil> Maybe you don't need the matrix
02:03 < infinisil> But it's nice to have a matrix when you need it
02:03 < nopacienc3> coolpup: what do you want to do ? i didnt understand "to the bottom quad of screen" ?
02:13 < boxrick> I don't have an aweful lot of knowledge of the Linux kernel, but I am using a scaleway dedicated server and it using a funny Kernel version 'Linux  4.4.38-std-1 #1 SMP Mon Dec 12 10:45:29 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux' when I try and load Kernel Modules in I get errors. 'modprobe: FATAL: Module zfs not found in directory /lib/modules/4.4.38-std-1'
02:13 < boxrick> Do I need to install something like kernel headers here? Not quite sure to go about fixing this.
02:13 < revel> boxrick: If you don't have the modules, then you can't load them.
02:14 < boxrick> In this case, they are installed and should be loading.
02:14 < revel> That kernel version's not very funny, though it is quite old...
02:14 < boxrick> Well this Ubuntu 16 standard so 4.4 is quite normal
02:14 < boxrick> Unless I install HWE version
02:15 < boxrick> I just thought the extra '-std-1' may be causing problems
02:15 < revel> 2016 build date though. There's 4.4.111 already.
02:15 < revel> No, that part's fine.
02:17 < boxrick> I can always upgrade and certainly will do, but I don't think thats the cause of my problems here. I wonder if I am missing more bits of the ZFS package
02:17 < TJ-> boxrick: what does this report? "modinfo zfs spl znvpair zcommon zunicode zavl icp  | grep filename:"
02:17 < TJ-> boxrick: you should get 7 lines of output, 1 for each module
02:18 < boxrick> Missing every one it seems
02:19 < boxrick> But then zfs / and zfs-utils-linux is installed. I wonder what packages I am missing
02:20 < revel> `apt search zfs` sounds like a good way to check to me.
02:21 < boxrick> This feels like a heavily modified image. But regardless my Kernel Knowledge is poor, can you guys recommend any resources to learn up a bit?
02:21 < revel> Git clone the sources and start reading :D /s
02:21 < boxrick> :o
02:22 < avis> hello
02:23 < revel> What sort of knowledge do you want? If you don't plan on writing drivers or anything like that for the kernel, then knowing all about the timer subsystems or what have you seems pointless.
02:23 < boxrick> Ah just how things load in, driver specific stuff and how things interact would be useful.
02:23 < boxrick> I will do some googling
02:24 < revel> I think apt handles building the zfs module on its own.
02:24 < revel> Or modules in general, with dkms.
02:30 < rocktop> how can I make login to the ssh via the password not via ssh key
02:30 < ananke> rocktop: enter the password when prompted
02:31 < rocktop> ananke, I want to prevent using ssh-key
02:31 < ananke> rocktop: why?
02:32 < rocktop> ananke, I see some unknown  authorized  key in my server
02:32 < pnbeast> rocktop, then you're screwed, already.  Re-install.
02:32 < revel> rocktop: Permanently or temporarily?
02:32 < pnbeast> (and figure out how you got compromised!)
02:33 < rocktop> permanently
02:33 < revel> rocktop: "PubkeyAuthentication=no" in ssh_config
02:34 < revel> Or, well, no =
02:36 < ryouma> TJ-: i do not have a webcam.  perhaps chicony is a sound card?
02:36 < rocktop> revel, RSAAuthentication no and PubkeyAuthentication no
02:37 < TJ-> ryouma: they make all sorts; I said that since on this PC it is a video camera
02:37 < ryouma> so it sounds like my new drive is broken or something.  :(  dunno what sdd is, but it is not anywhere that indicates that it exists.
02:37 < revel> Where'd you get RSAAuthentication from?
02:37 < revel> I don't have that in my ssh_config manpage.
02:37 < ryouma> btw a different question about an old drive.   what does one do when partitioning with fdisk or cfdisk (or the g versions) to prevent this? fdisk -l is http://termbin.com/ne5k and it says "Partition 3 does not start on physical sector boundary."  there is no partition 3.
02:40 < boxrick> Seems the Kernel is slightly different on this server I am using: https://www.scaleway.com/docs/how-your-kernel-works/
02:41 < TJ-> ryouma: the 3rd partition,  sdb5, doesn't start on a 4096 byte boundary: 1955840/4096 = 477.5
02:41 < ryouma> ok
02:42 < ryouma> i do not use sdb5
02:42 < revel> boxrick: Did you run the rm command...?
02:42 < ryouma> but when i repartition the entire drive, i want to know what to do to get everything aligned properly with fdisk or whatever
02:43 < boxrick> From reading this thread they have to manually load in Kernel Modules people request
02:43 < boxrick> https://community.online.net/t/official-linux-kernel-new-modules-optimizations-hacks/226/38
02:43 < boxrick> How odd
02:44 < TJ-> boxrick: on a dedicated server!?!
02:44 < TJ-> boxrick: that's not very dedicated :p
02:44 < boxrick> Ya :o
02:44 < revel> The page mentions docker.
02:44 < boxrick> I know...
02:44 < revel> So, not a dedi.
02:45 < boxrick> Well it feels like they load in a specific set of Kernels and give you a choice
02:45 < boxrick> Then throw you onto a pool of available servers
02:45 < revel> No, wait, guess not.
02:45 < boxrick> They are only cheap like £10 per month
02:46 < boxrick> But 4 core 8GB ram things with external disks, very much AWS style
02:46 < revel> Eh, whatever.
02:46 < boxrick> Like an odd hybrid.
02:46 < boxrick> Yea, it seems doing what I want may be difficult. Perhaps I need to look elsewhere
02:55 < drb1> Is there anyway to prevent a user from scping a file to a read-only dir?
02:56 < revel> If it's RO, then how could they scp something to it in the first place?
02:56 < drb1> Yes, maybe I didn't set the perms properly...
02:57 < drb1> I thought I did
02:57 < drb1> But, I'm still able to scp a file from my laptop to my desktop
02:57 < revel> If they're not trying to write it to the RO directory, then everything's working as intended.
02:58 < drb1> But, I thought when you copy it to a directory that is considered writing
02:58 < drb1> I have a /Public dir where users can put files in
02:58 < drb1> I don't want them to copy files into other directories
02:59 < revel> ... Huh?
02:59 < drb1> I have a designated directory where users can put files in on my machine
03:00 < drb1> I do not want them to be able to scp any files into another directory
03:00 < revel> Okay. And they can stick files into other dirs as well?
03:00 < drb1> Yes, that's the problem
03:00 < revel> What user are they running scp as?
03:00 < mawk> can I poll on cgroups files like /sys/fs/cgroup/freezer/$CGPATH/freezer.state ? to monitor transition from FREEZING to FROZEN
03:00 < drb1> I'm running it from my laptop
03:01 < drb1> As separate user
03:01 < revel> i.e not your user (or, god forbid, root), right?
03:01 < drb1> Yes, revel lol
03:02 < revel> Okay, what's one directory they can copy files to aside from ~/Public?
03:02 < drb1> Documents
03:02 < revel> What does `ls -ld ~/Documents` say?
03:02 < drb1> They can copy to Documents
03:02 < drb1> I don't want that
03:02 < drb1> Copying from is okay
03:03 < revel> Wait, you want them to be able to read your documents...? Either way, it sounds like a permissions issue.
03:03 < TJ-> drb1: how did you give this other user rights to access your user account's $HOME ?
03:03 < revel> Either way, what does the ls command say?
03:03 < drb1> drwxrwxrwx  6 drb drb  4096 Apr  7 19:54 Documents
03:03 < drb1> drb is the desktop
03:03 < revel> Oh boy.
03:03 < revel> Ohhh boy.
03:03 < drb1> the machine i'm currently on
03:03 < TJ-> drb1: you're owned
03:04 < drb1> ?
03:04 < revel> It's world-writable.
03:04 < TJ-> drb1: that last rwx is "other" meaning all OTHER users can read, write, and execute
03:04 < revel> ^
03:04 < drb1> ...
03:04 < revel> Everyone can do whatever they want with files there.
03:04 < drb1> well, let me take that away
03:05 < TJ-> drb1: the permisions are USER rwx, GROUP rwx, OTHER rwx
03:05 < drb1> see but upon taking it away
03:05 < drb1> my files disappear
03:05 < revel> Not "whatever", I guess, but reading and writing are big things.
03:05 < drb1> so i'm left with empty dirs
03:05 < TJ-> drb1: what are ou 'taking away' ?
03:05 < drb1> a-wx
03:05 < drb1> write and execute
03:06 < revel> Wait, why a?
03:06 < drb1> isn't that all users?
03:06 < TJ-> drb1: it should be "chmod u+rwx,g+rx,o+rx path/to/dir" or more succintly "chmod 755 path/to/dir"
03:06 < drb1> i'm not too familiar with this
03:06 < revel> Yes, including you...
03:06 < drb1> ah
03:07 < drb1> thx TJ- and revel
03:07 < TJ-> drb1: and files should be '644' (u+rw,g+r,o+r)
03:07 < drb1> oh okay
03:07 < drb1> Bc I'm still able to scp
03:08 < TJ-> drb1: what does "ls -ld path/to/dir" show?
03:09 < drb1> Now I can't open my files
03:09 < drb1> drw-rw-r--  6 drb drb  4096 Apr  7 20:07 Documents
03:09 < drb1> no x perms
03:09 < revel> How'd you get to 664?
03:09 < drb1> sudo
03:10 < drb1> I just don't want anyone that isn't me
03:10  * TJ- shakes head and pulls the duvet up over his head
03:10 < drb1> to be able to copy files to the Documents dir
03:10 < revel> chmod 644 -R ~/Documents && chmod 755 ~/Documents
03:11 < revel> Err, "-R 644" maybe.
03:11 < mawk> shouldn't matter
03:12 < drb1> it should matter
03:12 < revel> Well, the manpage says "chmod [OPTION]... OCTAL-MODE FILE...", so, just making sure.
03:12 < drb1> now the files are gone again
03:13 < drb1> the files in the sub-dirs are gone
03:13 < drb1> :face_palm:
03:13 < revel> drb1: What does "whoami" say?
03:13 < TJ-> drb1: no, they are not gone, you've just removed permissions to see them
03:13 < drb1> that's what i mean TJ-
03:13 < drb1> drb, revel
03:13 < TJ-> drb1: we can't do telepathy here; you need to to be accurate
03:14 < revel> drb1: Did you not do the 755 one?
03:14 < TJ-> revel: I think the dir needs -R to allow traverse across sub-dirs
03:14 < revel> Or did it return an error message of any kind...?
03:15 < revel> TJ-: My command had it?
03:15 < drb1> alright done
03:15 < drb1> let's test the scp out
03:15 < drb1> revel, i copied and pasted the command in
03:15 < drb1> I thought you could do two at once with &&
03:16 < revel> It does the one after the && if the first one succeeds.
03:16 < revel> And if the first one had failed, then it should've produced an error message.
03:16 < drb1> nope, still able to scp
03:16 < drb1> hmm...
03:16 < drb1> isn't there a way to define perms based on the owner
03:16 < drb1> like....
03:17 < drb1> chmod user drb or something?
03:17 < TJ-> revel: I was on about thr "&& chmod 755 ~/Documents" ...better to use "chmod -R u=rwX,g=rX,o=X path/to/dir" then don't need to use the 644
03:17 < mynameisdebian> My NFS service says it cannot set up an export because directory not found.  The directory resides on an external USB drive, and I believe there is a race condition between NFS and the USB drive.  What is the best way to deal with this situation?
03:17 < TJ-> drb1: "chmod -R u=rwX,g=rX,o=rX ~/Documents"
03:18 < drb1> still didn't work
03:18 < drb1> I'm still able to scp files into the directory
03:18 < TJ-> drb1: what are you doing to test it?
03:18 < drb1> scp from my laptop
03:18 < TJ-> drb1: as which user?
03:19 < drb1> as drb-mbpro from my laptop
03:19 < drb1> drb is the user (owner) on my desktop
03:19 < TJ-> drb1: what is the exact command you're using ?
03:19 < drb1> scp ~/Downloads/nameofpdf.pdf drb@x.x.x:~/Documents
03:19 < TJ-> I bet you're scping into the other user's $HOME/Documents
03:20 < drb1> I am
03:20 < drb1> so, I must need to change perms for /home?
03:20 < drb1> well /home/drb/
03:20 < TJ-> drb1: right, now I'm confused. On the target, is the user "drb" owner of $HOME/Documents/ you're targeting?
03:21 < drb1> i suppose so
03:21 < TJ-> drb1: your command is wrong
03:21 < drb1> ?
03:21 < drb1> i'm copying from the laptop (drb-mbpro) to the desktop (drb)
03:21 < revel> drb1: You're copying it as the owner of the directory...
03:21 < TJ-> drb1: it should be something like scp ~/Downloads/nameofpdf.pdf someotheruser@a.b.c.d:/home/drb/Documents/
03:22 < drb1> I figured...
03:22 < TJ-> drb1: on the target you've create "somethoeruser" haven't you?
03:22 < drb1> wait wait wait
03:22 < drb1> no...
03:22 < TJ-> drb1: and you want "someotheruser" to be able to read but not write files in /home/drb/Documents/ ?
03:23 < drb1> Yes, but drb-mbpro isn't a user on my dekstop
03:23 < drb1> I don't think
03:23 < drb1> unless that happened during sshing into the desktop
03:23 < TJ-> drb1: right, you've not understood how user ids work
03:23 < TJ-> drb1: on the target 'drb' owns everything under /home/drb/
03:24 < drb1> uh huh
03:24 < TJ-> drb1: and your scp is logging into the target as drb@ so has FULL permissions
03:24 < drb1> oh...
03:24 < drb1> well, is there a way you would be able to prevent that?
03:24 < TJ-> drb1: so, to do what you want, on the target you need another user account and use THAT to connet to target
03:24 < drb1> I mean, if someone knows my hostname
03:25 < TJ-> can't scp without password or key file
03:25 < drb1> oh, it has the key lol
03:25 < drb1> well, my desktop has my laptop's key
03:25 < TJ-> right, for drb it does, but any other user won't
03:25 < drb1> you mean drb-mbpro
03:25 < drb1> ?
03:25 < drb1> or not?
03:26 < TJ-> no, on desktop drb-mbpro has the SSH key for drb on laptop
03:26 < drb1> i'm confused but okay
03:26 < TJ-> sorry, other way around! I'm tired! laptop's drb user has the SSH key of deb-mbpro from desktop
03:27 < drb1> oh okay, i was gonna say i know i'm not crazy
03:27 < TJ-> so laptop allows access
03:27 < TJ-> :D
03:27 < drb1> Alright, now I'm going to give /Public on my desktop write perms
03:28 < drb1> well +rw
03:28 < TJ-> anyhow, the solution is to create another user on laptop and use that account to access via scp, that way those chmod ...o=rX ... permissions will control what that other user can do/see in /home/drb/
03:28 < drb1> ?
03:28 < drb1> ok
03:29 < TJ-> you'll also need to do "chmod o+X /home/drb" in order to allow the other user to traverse through drb's $HOME to get to $HOME/Documents/ and other directories
03:29 < drb1> o is owner, yes
03:30 < drb1> and capital X?
03:30 < TJ-> drb1: for a directory the X (x) represents permission to *traverse* (pass through) but doesn't allow reading whats in there unless read permission (r) is also given
03:30 < TJ-> drb1: capital X yes
03:31 < drb1> oh okay
03:32 < drb1> so about the other account thing...
03:32 < drb1> i'm loss
03:32 < drb1> * lost
03:33 < TJ-> drb1: originally you said you want to allow *other* users to upload files to drb's $HOME/Downloads/ I think you said, and be able to read-only $HOME/Documents/ - is that correct ?
03:33 < drb1> $HOME/Public/ for uploads
03:33 < drb1> But, yes
03:33 < TJ-> drb1: ahh, ok
03:34 < TJ-> drb1: so, those other people cannot login as 'drb' else they'll have full permissions to everything under /home/drb
03:34 < TJ-> drb1: Therefore, you create another user account on the laptop and have those other people use it.
03:34 < drb1> Wait...
03:34 < drb1> No...
03:35 < drb1> :face_palm:
03:36 < TJ-> drb1: then you use the chmod commands we're discussed to provide limited access for the 'other' (o=) set to just the directories /home/drb/Public and /home/drb/Documents/
03:36 < erakis> Hi, I don't know if I'm on the right channel but I'm trying to implement a syncronization event like the one on Windows (Event + WaitForMultipleObjects). On Linux I found eventfd to be a good candidate but it does not seems to work as I expected. Pretend I have a producer thread and multiple consumer thread. Once the producer thread is about to terminate then I need to unblock ALL consumer thread that are waiting for this unique event
03:36 < erakis> great but on Linux it don't. I think it's because once the first consumer thread get unblocked by reading the event then the other thread can't no longer read the same eventfd as it has been reset. Is there a way with eventfd to achieve the same behavior as Windows Event ?
03:37 < drb1> create another user from the laptop?
03:37 < drb1> wow
03:37 < drb1> * how
03:37 < TJ-> drb1: "sudo adduser someotheruser" if you're on a Debian derivative
03:38 < drb1> what would a good name for the user be?
03:38 < drb1> I still a bit "mind blown"
03:38 < drb1> ssh_user I guess
03:40 < nobrain> I suggest bitey
03:41 < drb1> the laptop is macOS
03:42 < drb1> Surprisingly they don't have the cmd on there
03:42 < drb1> wow
03:42 < drb1> eh, forget it
03:42 < drb1> I guess i'll just forget about it
03:48 < drb1> but thank you for you assistance TJ-
03:48 < TJ-> drb1: can't you create a new user the approved way on the laptop?
03:49 < drb1> i will see what i can do
03:54 < drb1> yeah, I'm not going to worry about it TJ-
03:55 < drb1> I guess i'll just have to settle for now
03:55 < drb1> wait nevermind
03:55 < drb1> i think i've got the correct stuff now
03:56 < drb1> created the user, but it didn't work...
03:56 < drb1> let's see
03:59 < pnbeast> Wait, what?  This whole absurd fiasco with drb1 is for a Mac?
04:00 < drb1> yeah, i'm gonna sell it soon
04:00 < pnbeast> Why are you in ##linux asking how to do things on a Mac?
04:00 < drb1> i'm looking at a sager
04:00 < drb1> well...
04:00 < drb1> it's not necessarily a mac issue
04:00 < drb1> but whatever
04:00 < drb1> i consider macOS to be linked to linux thru unix
04:01 < drb1> but, it's all good, i'm going to go ahead and get ready to sell the mac soon
04:01 < pnbeast> Sometimes, very rarely, I wish I had ops.  Now's one.
04:01 < drb1> Gee
04:02 < drb1> Don't like the Mac, pnbeast?
04:09 < sirwilliam> Anyone else have issues with audio output on lubuntu 17.10? Just upgraded and no sound. lol.
04:24 < H-Town_Boozer> hai
04:24 < drb1> hi
04:24 < drb1> i'm in houston too
04:25 < H-Town_Boozer> nice!  another woodlands guy?
04:26 < drb1> nah, cypress
04:26 < drb1> i've been here for about five years now
04:26 < H-Town_Boozer> nice area
04:26 < drb1> yeah, same with the woodlands too
04:26 < drb1> i would go up to the mall sometimes
04:26 < H-Town_Boozer> I'm new, so sorry for any inexperienced questions
04:27 < drb1> same here, it's all good
04:27 < sauvin> Inexperienced people are welcome in this channel.
04:27 < H-Town_Boozer> glad to hear it!
04:27 < H-Town_Boozer> looking for some help with an arch chromebook install
04:27 < drb1> really sauvin? in other places they treat newbs like scum
04:27 < drb1> arch? oh snap
04:27 < drb1> I tried that before
04:27 < H-Town_Boozer> wrong channel?
04:27 < drb1> no no no
04:27 < drb1> lol
04:28 < drb1> someone else will be able to assist you
04:28 < drb1> just not me haha
04:28 < sauvin> I don't know anything about Arch either. :\
04:28 < drb1> i'm too inexperienced for Arch
04:28 < drb1> Someone here has to knw, H-Town_Boozer, just stick around a bit longer
04:28 < H-Town_Boozer> hahaha no worries :)  I think I've narrowed it down to a kernel patch, just not sure how to implement a patched kernel in command line :(
04:29 < drb1> ah ok
04:29 < H-Town_Boozer> yaourt maybe?
04:29 < sauvin> drb1, you're aware that if you ask for help in this channel, you'll get Linux help? Linux is a UNIX-like operating system, yes, but Mac OS X isn't closely related and in many respects the userlands are very, very different.
04:29 < [R]> well pwatching a kernel has nothing to do with graphical... so...
04:29 < sirwilliam> I'm in HTOWN as well, lol.
04:29 < drb1> nice woot woot
04:29 < drb1> i don't like houston, but since i'm here meeting other people online is fun
04:29 < drb1> you are a bit late sauvin
04:30 < drb1> but, yes i'm aware now
04:30 < drb1> i'm gonna sell the mac
04:30 < drb1> i need to find replacement pegs (feet) and HDD mounting brackets
04:30 < drb1> and a replacement trackpad
04:31 < sauvin> Maybe, but if you go 'round and 'round forever again before anybody realises you're not on a Linux machine, folks are gonna get really testy, including me. A couple months ago we went 'round and 'round for several hours with somebody having a problem with grep before finding out his grep was a Mac grep. Not the same thing at all.
04:31 < H-Town_Boozer> alright Houston friends, anyone have simple instructions or links to a kernel patch>
04:31 < H-Town_Boozer> ?
04:31 < drb1> lol
04:32 < H-Town_Boozer> I know I need the galliumos kernel, just can't find clear instructions for how to patch it
04:32 < dannylee> 8-)
04:32 < drb1> sauvin: the problem was i was trying to scp a file from the macbook to the linux machine
04:32 < drb1> i guess it would be better for me to get a non-Apple laptop
04:33 < drb1> and install linux and work with that
04:33 < H-Town_Boozer> scp over putty is hell lol
04:33 < drb1> isn't putty windows?
04:33 < H-Town_Boozer> not necessarily
04:33 < drb1> H-Town_Boozer: Are you trying to patch meltdown?
04:33 < drb1> oh
04:33 < sauvin> I don't see the point of using putty on Linux.
04:33 < drb1> ^
04:33 < H-Town_Boozer> but it's not a windows only is my point
04:34 < drb1> yeah
04:34 < drb1> soooo scp is the equivelant to putty?
04:34 < drb1> i didn't know that
04:34 < H-Town_Boozer> but yes, no reason to use it on the master race OS's
04:34 < H-Town_Boozer> but anyway, I've never patched a kernel
04:35 < H-Town_Boozer> yes I'm a noob....
04:35 < H-Town_Boozer> just looking for some simple instructions or helpful tips on where to look :)
04:35 < dannylee> what a noob
04:35 < drb1> i'm trying to look for some for you H-Town_Boozer
04:35 < H-Town_Boozer> thank you drb1 :)
04:36 < huangchong> hi
04:36 < drb1> hi huangchong
04:36 < dannylee> hi there
04:36 < H-Town_Boozer> I think yaourt is my answer, but seeing as it's a wrapper for pacman (which I'm not very familiar with to begin with) I'm not sure how effective I will be
04:36 < drb1> what exactly are you trying to do again H-Town_Boozer ?
04:37 < drb1> have you tried the wiki H-Town_Boozer?
04:37 < H-Town_Boozer> internal keyboard for a braswell chromebook doesn't work with the latest linux kernel
04:37 < drb1> oh
04:37 < H-Town_Boozer> just trying to patch it to get support for keyboard
04:38 < H-Town_Boozer> sorry if I'm in wrong channel :)
04:38 < drb1> i found a reddit post on the matter
04:38 < drb1> sending it over from the mac to the desktop
04:38 < drb1> via firefox
04:39 < H-Town_Boozer> you're the man!!!
04:39 < drb1> https://www.reddit.com/r/GalliumOS/comments/5rct3e/what_makes_keyboard_and_audio_work_for_braswell/
04:40 < drb1> a year old
04:42 < drb1> here's another one H-Town_Boozer: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=222481
04:42 < H-Town_Boozer> thanks man!  I'll look into it!
04:42 < drb1> sure
04:44 < H-Town_Boozer> I think that'll work for me!  gonna give it a try on my chromebook tomorrow.  thanks for the help!
04:53 < dannylee> its a great day too be alive with linux...but things are going to change in the next few years..linux is my rock...
04:54 < dannylee> what a noob
04:58 < dannylee> am i a noob???
04:58 < electromagnetism> who knows
04:59 < dannylee> a person who is inexperienced in a particular sphere or activity, especially computing or the use of the Internet.
05:01 < electromagnetism> well your on IRC, noob's don't use IRC nor do they even know that IRC is, so I guess your OK...
05:01 < gardotjar> I
05:01 < gardotjar> 'm not sure that's true
05:01 < gardotjar> god dangit, new keyboard
05:01 < pnbeast> I vote with gardotjar, here.  Some of 'em leak on in.
05:02 < gardotjar> Yeah, like idiots who hit return intead of apostrophe
05:05 < dannylee> government church~s and coperation...are microchiping millions of people a year...just for power and conrol...they want to control what you think feel say and do??
05:06 < gardotjar> Who needs a microchip when you can just get personal data and then send them a few adverts
05:19 < H-Town_Boozer> ftw
05:25 < dannylee> 8-)
05:27 < electromagnetism> 7-)
05:27 < H-Town_Boozer> distro of choice?
05:28 < dannylee> openSuse 2018
05:28 < electromagnetism> arch debian then gentoo
05:28 < dannylee> fedora 27
05:28 < triceratux> xubuntu 16.04.4, mx-17, swagarch
05:29 < H-Town_Boozer> DE of choice in arch?
05:29 < electromagnetism> kde / plasma
05:29 < H-Town_Boozer> personally consider an i3 install instead of a full DE
05:29 < H-Town_Boozer> Wm vs. DE....shoot
05:30 < moog> Debian/Devuan
05:30 < electromagnetism> yeah depends on what your using the os  for I guess
05:31 < dannylee> Mageia 6 - Install DVD (64-bit)
05:31 < H-Town_Boozer> I'm a C/Java prmgr
05:31 < H-Town_Boozer> so windows/keyboard shortcuts are a plus
05:31 < H-Town_Boozer> pls excuse the typos
05:32 < gardotjar> debian 9 + i3gaps
05:32 < electromagnetism> Oh I see yeah I3 for that I agree...
05:32 < H-Town_Boozer> i like the gaps, but why debian over arch?
05:32 < H-Town_Boozer> isn't there more control in arch?
05:33 < gardotjar> two words
05:33 < [R]> well theres more brokenness in arch...
05:33 < gardotjar> nvidia drivers
05:33 < H-Town_Boozer> putting arch on a chromebook.......
05:33 < gardotjar> I've had horrible experiences install nvidia drivers on debian, but even worse ones on arch
05:33 < H-Town_Boozer> can't do much with minimal hdwr
05:34 < gardotjar> makes a decent ssh client
05:34 < H-Town_Boozer> I'm talking a minimal pc with an ssd of 32gbs and 4gbs of ram
05:34 < H-Town_Boozer> need to make the most of it
05:34 < [R]> any sane dist will work on tthat
05:34 < H-Town_Boozer> debian seems kinda heavy fisted when it comes to installs
05:35 < g0dz1ll4> galliumos is nice on the chromebook
05:35 < gardotjar> yeah probably best to put arch on that
05:35 < H-Town_Boozer> tried it, but the lack of support made me leave
05:35 < moog> dannylee: Mageia, nice and rare ;)
05:35 < gardotjar> (assuming you can get the hardware to work)
05:35 < H-Town_Boozer> ohhhh
05:35 < H-Town_Boozer> Mageia....tried that on a toshiba 5 years ago ;) fun...
05:36 < dannylee> ok maybe rare..its made in france
05:36 < moog> I know
05:36 < dannylee> openSuse is my second choice
05:36 < H-Town_Boozer> I can always borrow the galliumos kernel
05:37 < H-Town_Boozer> so not worried about hrdwr support
05:37 < H-Town_Boozer> just looking for a decent OS to lay on top
05:37 < H-Town_Boozer> that won'
05:37 < H-Town_Boozer> *that won't consume too many resources
05:37 < dannylee> fedora 27 love my dell computer
05:37 < [R]> any sane dist will work fine
05:38 < gardotjar> ^
05:38 < gardotjar> But still, choosing something lean won't hurt
05:38 < [R]> any sane dist can be "lean"
05:39 < dannylee> you can buy a new dell 960 opiplex for about $150....at walmart or sears
05:39 < dannylee> just type it in the search bar
05:39 < H-Town_Boozer> I'm pretty happy with my chromebook
05:39 < H-Town_Boozer> more of a project than anything
05:39 < gardotjar> thinkpads are the normal goto for cheap laptops
05:40 < gardotjar> cheap + good laptops*
05:40 < [R]> yeah
05:40 < [R]> super terrific chinese crapware
05:40 < [R]> i love it
05:40 < moog> Same here
05:40 < H-Town_Boozer> blew away any traces of chrome OS and replaced with full UEFI boot loader already
05:40 < H-Town_Boozer> or GPT
05:40 < H-Town_Boozer> my bad
05:40 < dannylee> my dell is made in the USA
05:41 < H-Town_Boozer> only problem is I have 2 4M drives that sit on chromebooks that I cant't get rid of
05:41 < H-Town_Boozer> they exist for updates apparently
05:41 < moog> I was afraid when IBM thinkpads became Lenovo ... but everything is alright
05:43 < H-Town_Boozer> so are you guys coders too?  or am I in the wrong chat for that?
05:44 < gardotjar> I am actively debugging something
05:44 < moog> Everybody is full-stack here :p
05:44 < dannylee> 960 dell is a great choice... but openSuse just don`t dell..dell is jewish..and openSuse is german...maybe they hate each other
05:44 < moog> dannylee :)
05:45 < gardotjar> >Makes possibily offensive joke
05:45 < gardotjar> >Immediatly leaves chat
05:45 < gardotjar> I like your style
05:46 < H-Town_Boozer> alright...I'm going to throw this out there.  I'm full stack c#, but lately I've picked up TM1......any TM1 users in the house?
05:46 < gardotjar> no but c# is cancer
05:48 < moog> Absolutely :)
05:48 < [R]> its got enough syntactic sugar to give your the beetus
05:48 < [R]> you*
05:48 < H-Town_Boozer> lol better than VBA brother
05:49 < H-Town_Boozer> and no...I fully disagree
05:49 < [R]> you can't compare one shit thing to another shit thing...
05:49 < H-Town_Boozer> C# has the .NET backing
05:49 < [R]> maybe learn a real language...
05:49 < H-Town_Boozer> even though it was stolen from Java long ago...still better ;)
05:49 < electromagnetism> C# , VB .net
05:49 < moog> .net is a tld, not a language :)
05:50  * pnbeast sets to work on MUMPS.
05:50 < H-Town_Boozer> I'm fully aware...
05:50 < H-Town_Boozer> I believe I am older than most of you
05:50 < [R]> and?
05:50 < pnbeast> That's all the reality I can handle.
05:51 < gardotjar> my racist uncle is older than me, that doesn't make him right
05:51 < H-Town_Boozer> I took a little offense from your attempted "correction"
05:51 < H-Town_Boozer> I'm new to IRC and this chat in general....wasn't expecting hate right off the bat
05:52 < [R]> well wehn you're in a linux chat, and youo're rambling about microsoft crap...
05:52 < electromagnetism> I used vb.net 1.0 when it first came out, I think I paid $130 for the CD set
05:52 < moog> It's not hate ... You're just in the wrong place
05:52 < gardotjar> this is sort of the equivelent of going to a jewish church and talking about how great the wine is at catholic churches
05:52  * sauvin remembers wrestling with Visual Basic for DOS
05:52 < [R]> sauvin: wrastling
05:53  * sauvin also remembers hissing, spitting and swearing at gwbasic
05:53 < moog> gardotjar :)
05:53 < H-Town_Boozer> I didn't attempt to start a conversation about microsoft products at all
05:53 < diogenese> qbasic ftw
05:53 < H-Town_Boozer> please read my original message lol
05:53 < sauvin> diogenese, yea, that was a HUGE improvement in a bunch of different ways.
05:54 < H-Town_Boozer> the fact that I'm getting ripped on right now is about completely irrelevant stuff compared to my original question
05:54 < diogenese> sure was. but gwbasic was great for laughs. everybody made fun of that one
05:55 < P_B> What's everyone's favourite filesystem where data integrity is more important than performance?
05:55 < Psi-Jack> H-Town_Boozer: What was the original question? I looked back, but don't really see much.
05:55 < electromagnetism> delphi 6 was the worst ting I ever tried to learn and use I have up to hard man, long time ago ...
05:58 < helokki> quickbasic all the way
05:58 < H-Town_Boozer> I'm sorry, but is that really acceptable behavior in this chat?  I get ripped on for a totally irrelevant comment?
05:59 < Psi-Jack> H-Town_Boozer: What was the original question? I looked back, but don't really see much.
05:59 < helokki> H-Town_Boozer: IRC has always been so.
05:59 < H-Town_Boozer> alright...I'm going to throw this out there.  I'm full stack c#, but lately I've picked up TM1......any TM1 users in the house?
05:59 < H-Town_Boozer> that was the questions
05:59 < H-Town_Boozer> *question
05:59 < Psi-Jack> Off-topic.
05:59 < Psi-Jack> Do you have a Linux subject/topic to ask?
06:00 < H-Town_Boozer> jesus....I didn't think I was on stack overflow
06:00 < moog> Yes helokki, IRC is so unfair :)
06:00 < sauvin> Never even HEARD of "TM1".
06:00 < Disconsented> ##csharp
06:00 < Psi-Jack> H-Town_Boozer: You're in a very specific channel regarding GNU/Linux subjects, asking about completely different things. :)
06:00 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, while I'm here, why don't you let me worry about what's topical and what isn't?
06:00 < Psi-Jack> It's like playing chess as if it were checkers.
06:00 < H-Town_Boozer> it was a question :) not trying to ruin your precious channel :)
06:01 < gardotjar> I love the enalogies this channel always comes up with
06:01 < sauvin> H-Town_Boozer, what's TM1?
06:01 < gardotjar> analogies*
06:01 < H-Town_Boozer> will I get booted if I make a comment about it>
06:01 < H-Town_Boozer> ?
06:02 < Disconsented> Depends on how long it takes someone to ping an op
06:02 < sauvin> I'm the one who would do the booting if so, and I'm not seeing any reason to worry about digging up the "outta here" button just now.
06:02 < sauvin> So... what's TM1?
06:03 < gardotjar> off topic is okay as long as no one in chat minds and it doesn't stop people from asking their questions
06:03 < moog> C:\users\TM1.exe  <--- Command not found
06:03 < gardotjar> >.exe
06:03 < moog> :)
06:03 < sauvin> Yeah, yeah, got that, but maybe there's a Linux analog.
06:04 < sauvin> Every time I turn around, somebody's touting some new programming language I've never even heard of, and I've been around a WHILE.
06:04 < Disconsented> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TM1 I'd assume that
06:04 < Psi-Jack> There actually isn't. TM1, aka IBM Cognos TM1, formerly Applix TM1, isn't on Linux. Never has been. :)
06:04 < H-Town_Boozer> TM1 is a non-relational database produced by IBM....
06:05 < sauvin> .... oh. One of THOSE.
06:05 < H-Town_Boozer> primarily used by financial planning and corporate processes, but not necessarily used for only those purposes
06:05 < H-Town_Boozer> honestly not trying to get in a discussion about it
06:05 < H-Town_Boozer> just curious if anybody knew abou tit
06:06 < H-Town_Boozer> btw IT IS ON LINUX
06:06 < H-Town_Boozer> I've installed it on RHT servers multiple times
06:06 < Psi-Jack> RHT?
06:06 < sauvin> Yeah, well, my favourite RDBMS, PostgreSQL, it isn't just for warehouses and hospitals, either. It gets used for all kinds of crazy things.
06:07 < H-Town_Boozer> sorry PSI-Jack, possibly admin....but you are WRONG
06:07 < H-Town_Boozer> always has been on linux...and always will be
06:07 < sauvin> H-Town_Boozer, is it available as FOSS?
06:07 < moog> Is TM1 OpenSource ?
06:07 < [R]> your mom is open source
06:08 < electromagnetism> OOoooOooOoooOoh snap
06:08 < H-Town_Boozer> guys....I asked if I would get banned before even starting this convo
06:08 < H-Town_Boozer> no it is not FOSS....I was just polling to see if anybody knew about it
06:08 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. It is available for Linux. Propriatery, but yeah.
06:09 < gardotjar> most of IBMs stuff is propriatery is it not?
06:09 < Psi-Jack> Postfix is made by IBM. :)
06:09 < sauvin> H-Town_Boozer, let me make this perfectly clear:
06:09 <@sauvin> I'm the guy who would do the banning.
06:10 < sauvin> I don't see a reason to be doing any banning. I would warn you first.
06:10 < H-Town_Boozer> thank you sauvin
06:10 < gardotjar> warn as in windows update warning or warn as in ubuntu update warning?
06:10 < H-Town_Boozer> Psi came on strong...figured he was and admin ;)
06:10 < Psi-Jack> H-Town_Boozer: BTW, I'm not arguing with you. Just conversing, there's no need for you stay defensive. :)
06:11 < sauvin> Psi-Jack is a strong personality, and yes, he probably IS an admin... but not in this channel.
06:11 < moniker--> what if you did one day without moderating the channel
06:11 < moniker--> no ops at all
06:11 < sauvin> The mind boggles.
06:11 < electromagnetism> warn as in Linux mint updates disabled...
06:11 < [R]> moniker--: the channel would be overrun by morons, idiots, and trolls
06:12 < moniker--> so... you could use ignore
06:12 < sauvin> It would also be overrun by folks who eat raw hamburger and don't bathe.
06:12 < H-Town_Boozer> well....guys that makes 2 strong personalities in the channel :)  nice to meet you Psi, hope we didn't start off on the wrong foot!
06:12 < moniker--> and focus your discussion to those that you appreciate in response
06:12 < [R]> sauvin: is 'you eat raw hamburger' an isult?
06:12 < moniker--> so what sauvin
06:12 < Psi-Jack> H-Town_Boozer: I'm a Senior Systems Engineer by profession. I was an op here in the past, but not anymore. :)
06:12 < moniker--> lol if that's any issue
06:13 < sauvin> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_OLAP_Servers
06:13 < gardotjar> [R]: I live in quebec, here it's a term to insult french people
06:13 < H-Town_Boozer> Glad to meet you :) I'm sure I have much to learn from you!!
06:13 < moniker--> it would be cathartic that one day people could say what is on their mind without any damocles sword hanging over their head penalty
06:13  * sauvin isults [R]'s typing
06:14 < [R]> gardotjar: how odd
06:14 < sauvin> moniker--, I don't believe that word means what you seem to believe it means.
06:14 < electromagnetism> hos that health care system working for you.... lol
06:14 < gmcastil> i'm trying to configure LS_COLORS for use in xterm-256 - what is the best way to do that?  should i change xterm resources to use different hex codes?
06:15 < moniker--> could keep some people in reality check ;)
06:15 < moniker--> maybe, maybe not who knows
06:15 < moog> gardotjar: In france we don't have insults for people of Quebec :( :p
06:16 < sauvin> We don't? :D
06:16 < Psi-Jack> H-Town_Boozer: How long have you used Linux?
06:16 < pnbeast> moog, do you have French toast, there?
06:16 < sauvin> No, he doesn't. He has "lost bread".
06:16 < electromagnetism> gmcastil:  I'll paste a link to my bash profile it has all kinds of fancy colors maybe it will help, one sec...
06:17 < gardotjar> oh wait, real fast, does everyone here know what termbash is?
06:17 < moog> héhé
06:17 < pnbeast> What's lost bread?  That sounds like a euphemism for Las Vegas.
06:17 < Psi-Jack> moog: There's that evil chuckle again!
06:18 < electromagnetism> https://paste.linux.community/view/baa45abd
06:19 < H-Town_Boozer> *off
06:19 < sauvin> pnbeast, before commercial breadmaking came around, bread went bad fast. We'd use up day-old bread - "lost bread" - by making what you're calling French toast out of it.
06:19 < moog> Psi-Jack: You have already talked to me about any chuckle ??? I remember a "sry" instead of sorry, nothing more. :)
06:19 < diogenese> was popular in the soup kitches
06:19 < diogenese> *kitchens
06:20 < pnbeast> sauvin, I see.
06:20 < H-Town_Boozer> Psi-Jack I've used linux for about 10 years now of and on... probably intermediate level if I would have to rate myself
06:21 < sauvin> $deity, I'd love to knock around Montreal again for a few weeks. The regional cuisine available in that town is to die for. :sigh:
06:21  * Psi-Jack nods.
06:21  * pnbeast puts some Canadian bacon on French toast, calls it a Cuban and celebrates multiculturalism.
06:21 < sauvin> :D
06:21 < Psi-Jack> H-Town_Boozer: Cool. Around 26 years for me, persistently. ;)
06:21 < sauvin> "persistently"?
06:22 < moog> French toast is an american product ? because it's unknown in france...
06:22 < H-Town_Boozer> Psi-Jack...I have much to learn :)
06:22 < Psi-Jack> As my primary OS and non-stop.
06:22 < sauvin> moog, "Frech toast", c'est pain perdu.
06:22 < moog> Ohhh thank you sauvin :)
06:22 < sauvin> C'est bien connu partout.
06:22 < moog> Absolutely sauvin :) I'm sorry :)
06:23 < gardotjar> I lost a game of snake to check that last message
06:23 < gardotjar> It wasn't worth it
06:23 < pnbeast> moog, you know the rule about food with a country in its name, right?  The natives of that country have never heard of it.
06:23 < gmcastil>  electromagnetism: so you dont recommend using xresources to change colors then?
06:24 < moog> pnbeast: ^^ you're right, but "French Toast" known as "Pain Perdu" infrench ... is from ... middle age :)
06:24 < electromagnetism> isn't that the county where the subway $5 dollar foot long is $13 bucks...
06:25 < sauvin> Or maybe even before. Nobody really knows how old it is.
06:25 < moniker--> that's one old toast, wouldnt eat it
06:26 < gardotjar> electromagnetism: (Frances economy makes bitcoin look stable)
06:26  * pnbeast beats some pterodactyl (sp?) eggs to make some toast.
06:26 < diogenese> the syrup and powdered sugar help a lot
06:26 < electromagnetism> gmcastil: not sure really just posted thought it may be useful as a reference for you...
06:27 < sauvin> Gotta be maple. Ain't nothing on this whole planet quite like real maple syrup.
06:27 < gardotjar> ^
06:27 < avis> list
06:27 < gardotjar> sauvin: As a canadian, I am forced to agree
06:28 < pnbeast> gardotjar, who took all that syrup a few years ago?  Was it you?
06:28 < gardotjar> pnbeast: I dunno, but Canada literally has a government owned and funded maple syrup reserve
06:28 < pnbeast> Good answer, gardotjar.  I won't tell!
06:29 < diogenese> you guys are rich
06:29 < pnbeast> gardotjar, er, you know your "reserve" was robbed a few years ago, right?
06:29 < pnbeast> Well, burgled.
06:30 < gardotjar> I remember laughing my butt off when I first heard about that
06:30 < sauvin> I very much doubt Quebec was laughing.
06:31 < gardotjar> im pretty sure it was the largest heist in canadian history
06:31 < pnbeast> Not even in that snooty, French-style laugh they have on TV.
06:31 < diogenese> at we know what the thieves were having for breakfast :)
06:31 < gmcastil> there's a canadian maple syrup _cartel_ ?
06:32 < gardotjar> yeah, we even have PSAs about it in schools
06:32 < sauvin> Canadian maple syrup is standardised and regulated in much the same way many French regional wines are.
06:32 < pnbeast> gmcastil, any place a brown fluid is produced in nature there's a cartel.  It's some kind of weird natural phenomenon.
06:33 < gardotjar> people are always trying to sell you unregistered maple syrup behind ally ways
06:33 < gardotjar> "ppst, hey kid, you wanna buy some syrup? I got it reaaaaal cheap for ya"
06:33 < moog> ^^
06:34 < gardotjar> so they launched these PSAs
06:34  * pnbeast makes a border to buy it from "a guy" who sells it out of his car trunk.
06:34 < gardotjar> "When you buy syrup without the leaf on it, you make the beaver cry!"
06:34 < sauvin> Same thing happens with honey a lot. The stuff you get at Walmart like as not is half corn syrup.
06:34 < pnbeast> PSAs?  The dangers of unregistered syrup?
06:34 < gardotjar> and then they started putting little maple leaf stickers with barcodes on them on all the registered bottles
06:35 < gmcastil> ...make the beaver cry
06:35 < gmcastil> in america, we do that too, but with cigarettes
06:36 < gardotjar> Once they upped the fee to register your bottles from like 2 cents to 4 or something
06:36 < gardotjar> and there were riots all across the farms
06:36 < gardotjar> it was nuts
06:37 < pnbeast> They shoulda gone 2.5, 2.9, 3.4, etc.  Boil the Canadians slowly and they never know it.
06:37 < gmcastil> how much maple syrup do you folks eat?
06:37 < electromagnetism> pancakes
06:37 < gardotjar> Our reserve alone hold 77% of the worlds supply
06:37  * pnbeast puts down the spoon and looks guilty.
06:38 < tx> I drink one cubic kiloliter a day
06:38 < gardotjar> and I think we have like 90 something % of all the maple syrup in the world
06:38 < gmcastil> thats a lot of hoecakes
06:38 < gardotjar> The thing is
06:38 < electromagnetism> this is kinda neat looking https://paste.linux.community/view/64aa38af
06:38 < gmcastil> vermont has the other 10
06:38 < H-Town_Boozer> thats a lot of canook talk
06:38 < gardotjar> at most resturaunts here maple syrup is free to drink, but you normally have to order water
06:39 < moog> Note for today : « C# leads to maple syrup »
06:39 < H-Town_Boozer> HAHAHA
06:39 < gardotjar> It's the "#"
06:39 < gardotjar> it looks like a waffle
06:39 < DonRichie> Hello, I accidently changed shell in /etc/passwd to a path not existing. Can't do "su - root" since the path doesnt exist. "su --shell /bin/bash root" gives same "Cannot execute" error. What can I do? (have no sudo power too)
06:39 < pnbeast> A Stroop waffle?  Those have caramel, not syrup.
06:40 < pnbeast> DonRichie, what does "/bin/su" give you?
06:40 < electromagnetism> live cd chroot fun fun time
06:40 < DonRichie> pnbeast: "1. Password prompt, 2. Cannot execute /usr/bin/bash"
06:41 < gardotjar> DonRichie: WHAT DID YOU DO
06:41 < gmcastil> DonRichie: do you have another user with su privileges that you can login as?
06:41 < pnbeast> gardotjar, he probably got distracted thinking about syrup.  I blame us.
06:42 < pnbeast> DonRichie, wait, you changed root's shell?
06:42 < moog> gardotjar | it looks like a waffle <- ^^
06:42 < DonRichie> gardotjar: I installed zsh, it changed itself as my default shell. Wanted to fix that and made it worse. Changed /usr/bin/zsh to /usr/bin/bash, but it should be /bin/bash
06:42 < diogenese> switch to a tty and login as root from there maybe?
06:42 < gardotjar> DonRichie: So what you're saying is your replaced bash
06:43 < electromagnetism> drinking ti blood sugar level 1000x tweekin
06:43 < DonRichie> Yes, it happened automatically on first zsh start or on installation. Not sure. Wanted to switch it back to bash
06:43 < DonRichie> I went to /etc/passwd and made a mistake. Entered a non existing path as my root shell
06:43 < H-Town_Boozer> just change your shell next time.....
06:43 < gardotjar> Things_Id_Recommend = ["Not that"]
06:44 < DonRichie> Have only a normal user account available now without sudo.
06:45 < gmcastil> oh
06:45 < pnbeast> DonRichie, you don't care about this much, right now, but it's usually considered unwise to modify root's shell.  Leave root alone and work as a user as much as possible.  electromagnetism probably gave you the best advice.
06:45 < gmcastil> then you're gonna need to use a live CD
06:45 < DonRichie> I wonder why "/bin/su --shell /bin/bash" doesn't work. Why su accepts this parameter and ignores it then?
06:46 < gmcastil> DonRichie: does /bin/bash actually exist?
06:46 < DonRichie> Yes I am using it as my non-root user
06:47 < gmcastil> DonRichie: wonder if --shell "/usr/bin/env bash" would work?
06:47 < DonRichie> gmcastil: -> Cannot execute /usr/bin/bash
06:48 < gmcastil> DonRichie: yeah, because there isnt one there
06:48 < DonRichie> Yes
06:48 < gmcastil> su --shell "/usr/bin/env bash"
06:49 < DonRichie> gmcastil: Cannot execute /usr/bin/bash
06:49 < gmcastil> just get a live dist and just mount that partition and fix /etc/passwd
06:49 < DonRichie> Does this work on your machine btw?
06:50 < gmcastil> no, i thought it might, but i just tried and it doesnt work
06:50 < H-Town_Boozer> chsh
06:50 < H-Town_Boozer> sorry...I know I'm not being helpful
06:51 < DonRichie> I really wonder why this parameter doesnt work. It is a linux/unix core utility
06:52 < cmj> seriously
06:52 < gmcastil> DonRichie: looking at the man page for su, it doesnt look like --shell takes a path to a file as its argument
06:53 < gmcastil> looks like the default is /bin/sh, if nothing else works
06:54 < gmcastil> su - --shell /bin/bash  works for me
06:54 < moog> Good night everybody, I'm gonna dream of "French Toasts" with "Maple Syrup". Thank you for fun ^^
06:55 < gmcastil> DonRichie: but bash is my default shell...let me try with a different one
06:55 < gardotjar> moog: Goodnight
06:55 < alexey-nemovff> DonRichie: as they've already told you, just get into Live USB edit the file back again and problem solved
06:55 < gmcastil> DonRichie: su - --shell /bin/tcsh also works for me
06:55 < DonRichie> Yes, I hoped I can avoid the downtime of my server
06:56 < DonRichie> I also see it working on my workstation. But not on my server
06:56 < alexey-nemovff> ahhh
06:56 < gmcastil> that command should work - find /bin -type f -iname '*sh'
06:56 < gmcastil>  
06:57 < gmcastil> is /bin/sh symlinked to one of those?
06:59 < DonRichie> gmcastil: Try out: "1. sudo useradd test, 2. sudo passwd test, 3. sudo vi /etc/passwd 4. change shell of new user to "/test" 5. su --shell "/bin/bash" test
06:59 < DonRichie> I can reproduce the behavior this way
06:59 < DonRichie> On my workstation
07:00 < gmcastil> i dont really know what you're dealing with - what is the output of that command I indicated?
07:01 < DonRichie> If the shell is set to an invalid path in /etc/passwd, then "su - --shell /bin/bash" doesnt work anymore
07:01 < DonRichie> Thats my current status
07:02 < DonRichie> Seems to be reproducable by adding a non-root test user and giving him the non existing shell-path
07:03 < gmcastil> looks like you got to learn a couple valuable lessons without paying too heavy a price
07:04 < gmcastil> do you have physical access to the machine?
07:04 < electromagnetism> you where told how to fix it I think at this point you should just turn you computer off and never turn it on again because your beyond any help
07:05 < DonRichie> Since nobody can help I will fix it via livecd now. I wanted to avoid the downtime for my server. But since I am not hosting google I can take that. Thanks for your help
07:05 < gmcastil> DonRichie: in general, editing any of those files is a bad idea
07:06 < gmcastil> there are provided methods for editing the data they control
07:06 < gmcastil> s/editing/managing/
07:06 < DonRichie> Yeah. Me knows
07:06 < gardotjar> You say that
07:06 < gardotjar> and yet you still managed to overwrite bash
07:07 < DonRichie> Thats why I will never be as good as you.
07:07 < gardotjar> The only way to learn is to break it ^_^
07:07 < gmcastil> gardotjar: yep, all else being equal, this is a low cost way of learning that
07:10 < kuri0> I install 4.15 kernel on Ubuntu 16.04 and it fixed my wifi problems but I want to get automatic updates
07:11 < kuri0> and manually installed kernels don't
07:13 < moniker--> i wish ubuntu was more like windows
07:13 < Ben64> then make it more like windows
07:13 < gardotjar> i wish windows was more like ubuntu
07:14 < moniker--> to play games on it
07:14 < kuri0> lol
07:14 < moniker--> it should have directx implemented natively
07:14 < Ben64> lolno
07:14 < pnbeast> I wish OS X was more like Plan 9.
07:14 < moniker--> cant play games on linux :(
07:14 < Ben64> can
07:14 < gardotjar> I wish Donald Trump was more like Abraham Lincon
07:14 < Ben64> me too
07:14  * pnbeast buys the new graphics card optimized for Nethack.
07:15 < gmcastil> gardotjar: lots of ways to go with that
07:15 < moniker--> also it would be nice if you could run windows exes in linux
07:15 < Ben64> you can
07:15 < kuri0> wine
07:15 < moniker--> in some kind of vm wrapper
07:15 < kuri0> games with anti-cheat don't work
07:15 < Ben64> no
07:15 < Ben64> with wine
07:15 < gardotjar> wine/vmware is good, low preformance though
07:16 < gardotjar> honestly native linux games are pretty good
07:16 < moniker--> but on the fly
07:16 < gmcastil> just dual boot it and call it good
07:16 < Ben64> wine and vmware are totally different
07:16 < moniker--> just running them
07:16 < gardotjar> there's a large enough slecetion
07:16 < kuri0> no one wants to port their games to linux because on linux no one has created an anti-cheat yet
07:16 < kuri0> unless its single player
07:16 < pnbeast> gardotjar, it wouldn't be emulating Windows properly if it offered high performance.
07:16 < gardotjar> pnbeast: lol
07:16 < iflema> kuri0: upgrade to 18.04 by the time it give you the shits
07:16 < Ben64> good thing wine is not an emulator then
07:16 < kuri0> on cs go people use linux to hack since the linux version doesn't have anti-cheat
07:16 < kuri0> iflema, yes i'm going to do that
07:16 < moniker--> maybe linux are not good gamers
07:16 < iflema> !next
07:17 < gardotjar> I know a guy who made a tf2 bot that just logged onto servers and aimhacked everyone, then he made it easy to run and asked people to host many of those bots on their machines
07:18 < gardotjar> and that cheat used linux as a way of avoiding Vac
07:18 < gmcastil> i wish steam didnt require systemd
07:18 < kuri0> gmcastil, it does ?
07:18 < gmcastil> afaik
07:18 < gardotjar> I wish systemd didn't
07:18 < gardotjar> just all around didn't
07:18 < clearine> I ran Steam fine without systemd before.
07:19 < gmcastil> i dont know when the requirement appeared
07:19 < kuri0> you only need it for big picture mode
07:19 < gardotjar> Who on earth uses big picture mode?
07:19 < kuri0> not me
07:20 < gardotjar> I've only ever hit that button by mistake and then regretted it for 10 minutes while I try to find the exit option
07:20 < kuri0> i've been using windows alot recently because of this game called fortnite without a linux port
07:20 < kuri0> previously i booted windows 2 times in 6 months
07:20 < barometz> I use big picture mode.
07:20 < barometz> It's good when you're sitting back with a controller.
07:20 < gardotjar> Yeah, I still gotta dual boot windows for meh gaymes
07:21 < pnbeast> Haven't you guys heard of gnomine?
07:21 < pnbeast> And xbill!
07:21 < gardotjar> although less so with the amount of native linux games
07:21 < clearine> if the game doesnt have a linux port its not worth playing
07:21 < barometz> the good word thereof
07:21 < kuri0> xbill is a fun game
07:21 < kuri0> xlenart too
07:21  * pnbeast eagerly downloads xlenart to watch it take over his computer.
07:22 < kuri0> lol
07:22 < kuri0> supertux is good too
07:22 < electromagnetism> Ben64: playonlinux
07:22 < gardotjar> Yeah but there are also not-freeware titles too
07:23 < kuri0> The little people running around the screen are trying to infect your computers with SystenD [TM], a virus cleverly designed to resemble a popular init system.
07:23 < kuri0> "SystenD" not SystemD
07:24 < kuri0> SystenD is a virus SystemD is not
07:24 < gardotjar> systemd_is_evil
07:24 < gmcastil> indeed....a virus can be removed from the system
07:25  * sauvin sometimes spends a while spacing out on supertuxkart while thinking about heavy stuff
07:25 < diogenese> good plan
07:26 < kuri0> Lennart probably has played xLennart
07:26 < DonRichie> gmcastil: Fixing via LiveCD succeeded. World is a good place again. Thanks again for your time
07:26 < kuri0> there is a guy called systemd is evil here lol
07:26 < gmcastil> DonRichie: downtime of 15 minutes?  pretty cheap way to learn not to diddle with /etc/passwd
07:27 < gardotjar> kuri0: He's got the best username
07:27 < kuri0> yup
07:27 < kuri0> SystemD would have been good is it was only an init system
07:27 < kuri0> uselessd did that but development stopped
07:28 < electromagnetism> good to hear, apologies for sounding harsh wasn't intending to be
07:28 < DonRichie> gmcastil: Please believe, at my workplace I am not acting that sloppy
07:28 < kuri0> if i could find the git history for uselessd i could update it
07:28 < kuri0> but i can't
07:28 < kuri0> all the copies of the source code have no history
07:30 < kuri0> SystemD depending on a qrcode library shows its a virus
07:32 < alexey-nemovff> systemd is a virus, a monster, a spawn..
07:33 < Sonolin> wtf why would it need qr codes
07:33 < gardotjar> to steal bitcoin keys
07:33 < Sonolin> perhaps
07:34 < Kronnos> new systemd with QRCodes... interesting...
07:34 < BenderRodriguez> alexey-nemovff: systemd is a natrual progression from the antiquated systems of the past
07:34 < BenderRodriguez> if you're not able to change, there's a refuge for people with your mindset
07:34 < BenderRodriguez> it's called openbsd
07:34 < Sonolin> oh god, no its not
07:34 < BenderRodriguez> :)
07:35 < kuri0> lol
07:35 < Sonolin> sysvinit, openrc, runit are all much better alternatives
07:35 < kuri0> systemd steals bitcoin qrcodes using your webcam
07:35 < BenderRodriguez> wat
07:35 < kuri0> Sonolin, problem is none of them boot as fast as systemd
07:35 < Kronnos> not always new means better... look at the UEFI for example. .... how easier a tecnician can copy or clone your data, after a complete laptop failure?
07:35 < tx> sounds like one hell of a conspiracy theory
07:36 < Sonolin> lol, who cares about boot times, my system boots up before I'm done with my coffee I'm good
07:36 < kuri0> I like UEFI because of EFI stub and rEFInd
07:36 < Kronnos> lol
07:36 < Sonolin> anyway with openrc it boots up ~10 secs, which is pretty good IMO
07:36 < alexey-nemovff> BenderRodriguez: old isn't synonymous with useless
07:36 < Sonolin> and that's without parallel booting (which is an option to make it faster)
07:37 < kuri0> SystemD on Arch takes 500ms for me o_O
07:37 < kuri0> and 1.5 seconds on Ubuntu
07:37 < Sonolin> ok, well how often do you have to boot your system?
07:37 < Kronnos> Remember that canonical is having a fingerprint of your computer, everytime you boot up now.
07:37 < Sonolin> I don't think something you have to do once or twice a day is that useful of a metric..
07:37 < tx> once a week
07:37 < tx> I use KDE
07:37 < tx> so memory leaks require at least once a week
07:37 < tx> ;)
07:37 < kuri0> whenever i reboot to play games on windoze
07:37 < gardotjar> ^
07:38 < alexey-nemovff> Sonolin: is right.. there are several much better alternatives..
07:38 < Sonolin> ok well I guess for dual booting it would be nice
07:38 < kuri0> kernel boot takes like 10 seconds due to a acpi bug though
07:38 < Sonolin> but still I'll stick with openrc and the flexibility + speed..
07:38 < kuri0> so a 2007 laptop with a spinning rust is actually faster due to it not having the acpi bug
07:38 < Sonolin> yea mine is probably older than that
07:38 < alexey-nemovff> kuri0: puufff.. systemd for me last an eternity to boot up and shutdown..
07:39 < gardotjar> Because I only really reboot to play games, the amount of times I reboot is directly linked to the amount of work I have to do. Thus if I have to do a lot of work, I don't have to reboot a lot
07:39 < kuri0> it says the bug was fixed in 4.9 but its still there in 4.15
07:39 < Kronnos> how about a Pavilion DV3 2500us?
07:39 < kuri0> alexey-nemovff, reduce the service timeout to 10 seconds
07:40 < alexey-nemovff> Sonolin: I do care about boot times on my laptop (without a battery) to quickly move around
07:40 < Sonolin> my point is, if I have to wait 10 seconds, or 500ms, it doesn't really matter to me since 90% of the performance has no impact from boot time
07:41 < Sonolin> I have a laptop, its not like 10 seconds puts me back into 90s era of slow boot times
07:42 < kuri0> linux needs kernel hibernation like winblows
07:42 < Kronnos> well.. the 90 for me wa pretty good time.
07:43 < kuri0> then we will have sub-second boot times to login screen
07:43 < kuri0> kernel takes forever to boot for my laptop
07:43 < kuri0> laptop: kernel:10s userspace:1200ms
07:43 < Kronnos> it takes like 15 seconds in mine.
07:44 < kuri0> raspberry pi: kernel:1.5s userspace:11s
07:44 < alexey-nemovff> kuri0: I did, but it most of the times it was useless.. but no worries now.. I'm happy without dealing with the monster systemd
07:44 < kuri0> Kronnos, is it HP ?
07:44 < Kronnos> yeah...
07:44 < kuri0> thats the same bug then
07:44 < Kronnos> running 4.16 tho.
07:44 < kuri0> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=216096
07:45 < kuri0> i didn't have it before 4.7 too
07:49 < Kronnos> took me by suprise that the longer service to start up in my case was the network-manager. took 25s.
08:15 < alexey-nemovff> why this channel's name is preceded by two numerals?
08:17 < phrost> illuminati
08:18 < barometz> alexey-nemovff: freenode policy to distinguish channels run by a project from channels that are merely about a thing
08:18 < barometz> if this channel were operated by the Linux Foundation it'd be #linux
08:19 < alexey-nemovff> ohhh ty guys for the explanation
08:20 < saltystew> anyone have experience making linux parent/template disks for vm use?
08:21 < alexey-nemovff> I've been using IRC for two weeks.. I don't know that much xD
08:22 < alexey-nemovff> and I like really like it
08:22 < Sitri> saltystew: not that hard, just install the bare minimal setup that you want on one VM, then clone it
08:24 < saltystew> Sitri, I'd like to use a differencing disk with the parent disk though
08:26 < saltystew> Sitri, I get this error though when booting the differencing disk https://pastebin.com/F2EGNUB9
08:27 < saltystew> I don't understand why booting from the differencing disk looks to that exact path when booting the parent disk works just fine
08:32 < Sitri> saltystew: "differencing disk"?
08:33 < Sitri> Also I neither run GRUB, not EFI so I'm no help on those issues.
08:37 < saltystew> Sitri, differencing disks is a hyper-v thing, basically have two disks linked parent and child (differencing disk), you have a base OS as the parent and then have a differencing disk with any new changes
08:38 < saltystew> what do you use instead of grub or efi
08:38 < Sitri> Syslinux and good old BIOS (compatability mode on most systems)
08:39 < Sitri> Try asking ##windows-server about the hyper-v stuff?  (You said the parent disk works fine right?  Then there's probably some issue with hyper-v)
08:40 < saltystew> yea it works fine
08:41 < saltystew> I've tried ubuntu server and centos, both give the same error
08:42 < snj33v> in kde, does stoping activities means suspend?
08:42 < saltystew> the boot files seem to be in /boot/efi/EFI/ubuntu or /boot/efi/EFI/centos by default and copying the content of either directory to /boot/efi/EFI/BOOT/ makes it all work fine but I shouldn't need to do that, feels wrong
08:52 < Dagmar> Probably an issue with the EFI variables
08:52 < Dagmar> As long as it works at least one way it's probably not worth wasting any more time on
08:53 < saltystew> Dagmar, wouldn't any future updates to grub kinda mess with it though?
08:53 < Dagmar> Unlikely as long as any new kernels are in the same place on your boot filesystem
08:54 < Dagmar> Mine always boot vmlinuz as a symlink to the actual kernel so I don't have to ever futz with the default lilo entry
08:54 < Dagmar> (yes I still use LILO)\
08:55 < saltystew> I'm fairly new to linux so I don't even know what that is
08:55 < Dagmar> It's an older bootstrap mechanism that Slackware has been using for ages
08:55 < saltystew> ah
08:55 < saltystew> never tried slackware
08:55 < Dagmar> It doesn't do any of the fancy LVM stuff or a few mdraid things but it is _reliable_ and has a simple config file format
08:56 < Dagmar> I am not a man who wants a _complex_ boot process because *when* something goes wrong that complexity turns into a real clusterfsck
08:56 < Dagmar> ...and it's not like i'm rebooting more than 2-3 times a year anyway
08:57 < saltystew> yea everything is getting more complex these days, and I'd say half the time the complexity doesn't even seem to add value
08:57 < Dagmar> That complexity that didn't add value is why I've never bothered to use grub unless something shipped with it
08:58 < saltystew> don't most ship with it though?
08:58 < Dagmar> Yeah, now
08:59 < Dagmar> I've got just about zero tolerance for anything complex that doesn't work, so if they didn't ship with a working config, I'd still be going back and installing LILO on things.  ;)
09:00 < saltystew> old reliable
09:00 < Dagmar> For awhile I was doing that to Ubuntu because I had a *really* complex multi-boot setup and the part of their config that looks for partitions to add to the grub menu would freak the f**k out when it saw 43 partitions
09:01 < saltystew> lol why did you have 43
09:02 < Dagmar> I was supporting packages on several different revisions of Slackware, and had a few special-purpose LFS builds, and I was pillaging Ubuntu to figure out how some of the thornier bits of GNOME worked because their documentation was a bit lacking
09:03 < Dagmar> You wouldn't really want to see what's going on with my KVM & LVM setup right now.  Heh
09:03 < Dagmar> 14 drives and a *lot* more slices than just 43
09:04 < snj33v> in kde plasma 5, does stoping activities means suspending them?
09:04 < Dagmar> It _probably_ means killing them
09:04 < Dagmar> Android can stop stuff like that because it's running things in a JVM and you can do that with those
09:05 < Dagmar> For normal Linux, there's running and murdered (as in dead & gone) and no in-between
09:05 < saltystew> is chopping up your drive like that still even a good option considering all the options available today with vm's and containers
09:06 < Dagmar> I have a lot of virtual machines, man
09:06 < Dagmar> Trust me, this beats the hell out of running 8-12 physical boxes 24/7/365
09:09 < saltystew> probably
09:10 < Dagmar> No seriously.  I bought a kill-a-watt to determine if my electrical bill from those was as high as I thought
09:10 < Dagmar> After the first week it was clear a rather robust VM would replace all those and have me spending less in seven months
09:11 < saltystew> oh I know
09:11 < Dagmar> Also, when I have my quarterly hardware cleaning festival, it is done in two hours, not TWO DAYS
09:12 < saltystew> I don't have a ton of vm's but if I had to have a physical box for each I'd run out of room quick
09:13 < Dagmar> Oh I lived in SF for a bit and we didn't even need a heater
09:13 < kuri0> is it possible to show a different /usr to a process using apparmor or selinux ?
09:14 < Dagmar> Container stuff, that is
09:14 < Dagmar> saltystew: I have my landlady to thank for highlighting that I *might* be using a bit of juice.  Heh
09:15 < Dagmar> saltystew: We were behind the condoplex looking at something and all the meters were there, and she noticed one was spinning like MAD compared to the rest
09:15 < Dagmar> lol
09:15 < kuri0> Dagmar, so it can't be done with apparmor or selinux ?
09:17 < Dagmar> You could make something _not able_ to access /usr with SELinux but as for presenting a different /usr, that's not it's job
09:17 < Dagmar> It's containers and union mounts you want to look into for that
09:18 < Dagmar> AppArmor and SELinux are (mandatory labeling) access control systems.  They're not designed to replace parts of the environment
09:19 < saltystew> Dagmar, it's nice though cause then you've got a warm house for the winter
09:19 < kuri0> Dagmar, There's stuff like bubblewrap that do it but they requires the program to be executed using their program (like bwrap /path/to/program 'permissons and stuff')
09:19 < Dagmar> saltystew: This is true.  WHen it would get chilly (for SF this meant "55F") we'd just spin up more RC5/Folding clients to drive up idle cpus
09:20 < kuri0> or you could mine some cryptos
09:20 < kuri0> and get money too
09:20 < Dagmar> Well, yeah that would have been particualrly nice in 2001
09:22 < saltystew> Dagmar, what do you actually use for linux server use?
09:22 < Dagmar> Of course it wasn't really worth it then, and it's hardly worth it now
09:22 < Dagmar> saltystew: Consumer-level hardware, actually.  Well.. "enthusiast" level stuff.  6-core AMD with 64Gb RAM in the main VM server
09:23 < Dagmar> I am *slowly* working my way towards completely separating processing from storage into two separate boxes
09:23 < saltystew> yea that'd be nice
09:23 < my123> https://twitter.com/imbushuo/status/982830002562461697
09:23 < Dagmar> It honestly doens't cost very much to build a decent VM host if you don't have to worry about SLAs or middle-managers
09:24 < my123> Dagmar, Threadrippers are nice too
09:24 < saltystew> Dagmar, my one and only server atm has two xeon L5640s in it, only 32gb of ram atm... I need more ram
09:24 < saltystew> about 30tb of local storage though
09:24 < Dagmar> my123: Heheh.  At least the hardware won't go to waste
09:25 < Dagmar> disks are evil
09:25 < Dagmar> Every time I buy more I wind up with half of it going to just increasing raid levels
09:26 < my123> Dagmar, but why
09:27 < Dagmar> my123: I spent a *fantastic* amount of time encoding CDs here
09:27 < Dagmar> I would be pretty pissed if I had that volume fail and incur downtime
09:27 < my123> personally I use a mix of local and Azure blob storage
09:27 < saltystew> Dagmar, I've actually taken to using snapraid for awhile now, my usage of the space is fairly specific
09:27 < lukey_> kuri0: you could try with firejail or proot
09:27 < Dagmar> ...and now i've added DVDs to that pile, and got married so now the wife's stuff is also making it's way into there
09:28 < Dagmar> ...and you know it's always nice to *really* be able to take advantage of gigabit ethernet, so hehe, mirroring makes faster yay
09:28 < kuri0> lukey_, but they also require the program to be executed using the sandbox program like bubblewrap
09:28 < kuri0> if it could has configuration files like apparmor that would be good
09:29 < lukey_> Dagmar: So you have failover to another box implemented?
09:29 < kuri0> also proot doesn't have any kind of sandboxing features
09:29 < Dagmar> lukey_: First will come separating the disks into their own SAN box
09:29 < kuri0> firejail does though
09:30 < Dagmar> Right now it's all packed into the same full-tower case with a ridiculous PSU
09:33 < Dagmar> SAN failover is a much more complex thing than just failing over VMs so that's the next step.  Eventually I might be doing redundant SAN and redundant VM boxes here, but I can't really justify that level of expenditure for my _home stuff_ yet
09:34 < Dagmar> First splitting the host into dedicated storage and dedicated processing, then split the processing into two, beat on failover and migration stuff with KVM for awhile, and *then* look into duplicating the SAN (because that will be PRICEY)
09:35 < Dagmar> If this were for an office I could do the spreadsheet work and tell a manager with a straight face yeah you need to spend $4k this week, but the wife would shoot me
09:36 < lukey_> Dagmar: I would leave the Storage in the VM host and replicate that to the 2nd Host via DRBD
09:36 < lukey_> Dagmar: Saves some complexity
09:36 < Dagmar> The VMs don't need that much int he way of local disks tho
09:37 < Dagmar> They *are* however accessing some pretty sizaable volumes tho
09:38 < Dagmar> I begin to suspect that perhaps I need multiple VM hosts just to make Emby stop bogging out
09:38 < Dagmar> Or maybe I just need to rewrite mono
09:39 < Dagmar> Here I thought Minecraft was bad about going on epic garbage collection runs
09:39 < brimonk> Does anyone have any way to render troff formatted text without running it through man? I just want the fancily formatted, curses paging, without the man headings.
09:41 < Zexaron> Hello
09:42 < Zexaron> Is there some kind of tool that I could use on a router or a usb wifi card to scan for nearby clients, discovery, even the hidden ones
09:42 < Zexaron> I know my router has site survey, but I think that only shows other APs, not clients
09:43 < Zexaron> I have some trouble with my printer, not sure if it's wifi hardware issue or what, but need to troubleshoot
09:46 < lukey_> Zexaron: I think Aircrack-ng can do that
09:50 < jellyb> what does it mean when top says my load average is 18.79
09:50 < jellyb> i have 8 logical processors
09:51 < blackgatonegro> jellyb, take a look at how many things load at startup
09:52 < blackgatonegro> unless is a distro specifically made to boot fast, linux doesn't tend to have a fast boot up time.
09:52 < jellyb> this is output from the top app
09:52 < jellyb> referring to cpu load
09:52 < blackgatonegro> But in exchange linux tends to crash a lot less.
09:52 < junka> lol
09:53 < blackgatonegro> Ah that? Thats' how much of your cpu power is being used.
09:53 < jellyb> how can it be 18
09:53 < lukey_> jellyb: It means that you need 10 more Cores more or less
09:54 < blackgatonegro> What are youi running anyway? Doorfs?
09:54 < lukey_> jellyb: Or that your current tasks /can/ utilize 18 Cores fully
09:54 < blackgatonegro> A server?
09:55 < blackgatonegro> I think not, is a percentage, got a screenshot?
09:55 < jellyb> i see, i thought 8.0 would be the max
09:56 < jellyb> seeing as i have 8 cores
09:56 < lukey_> jellyb: man proc
09:56 < lukey_> jellyb: And serach for /proc/loadavg
09:57 < blackgatonegro> As  a general rule, any program that tests that on linux giving you a percentage, 100% would be everything being used. Maybe try one that gives you more details or something?
09:58 < jellyb> i was running some correlations with numpy
09:58 < blackgatonegro> Mmm, how is the heat?
09:58 < jellyb> will check out man proc
09:58 < blackgatonegro> Got enough cooling?
10:00 < jellyb> no problems with heat
10:02 < blackgatonegro> Mmm, see how much you get after a reboot. Or if you are running a server, there are tools to limit stuff.
10:09 < lordvadr> jellyb: Load average changed between IIRC the 2.6 and the 3.0 kernel to also include IO wait. So a load average of 18 used to mean that 18 processes were waiting on CPU, now it just means that 18 processes are waiting on *something*.
10:10 < lordvadr> atop will tell you a lot more than top will about what that is. It's usually disk.
10:10 < lordvadr> (if it's not CPU)
10:12 < jellyb> ok atop shows 768%
10:12 < jellyb> thanks
10:12 < lordvadr> 768% what? CPU?
10:12 < lordvadr> Does it show any of your disks at 100%?
10:12 < jellyb> yes
10:12 < hexnewbie> lordvadr: 2.6 kernel and 3.0 kernel do not compare. 3.0 is like a patchlevel of 2.6
10:12 < jellyb> disk busy 0
10:13 < lordvadr> hexnewbie: I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I was just saying that the change to include iowait was a while ago, but not all that long ago.
10:15 < jellyb> 1 cpu is ~800% and the other 7 are ~100%
10:15 < jellyb> if im reading this right
10:15 < hexnewbie> lordvadr: 3.0 follows 2.6.39 and was originally going to be called 2.6.40 (version change was arbitrary), 3.0 compares to 2.6.39 the way 2.6.39 compares to 2.6.38. It does not to 2.6
10:15 < lordvadr> jellyb: Ok, well, it should show you what's consuming the CPU. Pressing 'c' will show you the full commands.
10:16 < jellyb> ah nope all 8 are at 100%
10:16 < jellyb> ok this atop makes more sense at least
10:17 < lordvadr> hexnewbie: I wasn't suggesting 3.0 compared to 2.6.0 in any way.
10:17 < wmchris> hi. i have a problem with snapd, which I can fix by modifying my fstab - there is a bug in it which doesn't like the SCRIPT#PATH syntax in fstab for fuse mounts. Is there any possibility to change the syntax to avoid the #, but still use the custom script?
10:18 < lordvadr> jellyb: the capital CPU is total CPU usage. So of that's at 800%, you've maxed out your CPU. The rest of them are cores. There should be 8 of them that read 100%.
10:18 < jellyb> theres a CPL
10:19 < lordvadr> CPL is your load average. I think that's a left-over term.
10:20 < jellyb> ok, cheers
11:01 < kuri0> Why does my system freeze for around 5 minutes and this message is in dmesg radeon 0000:00:01.0: swiotlb buffer is full (sz: 2097152 bytes)
11:02 < TaZeR> is there a reliable way to run a internet speedtest in the console instead of going to a website like speedtest.net
11:03 < SirLagz> TaZeR: wget something?
11:03 < SirLagz> TaZeR: there are command line speedtest clients too though
11:03 < TaZeR> interesting
11:03 < c-c> $ nohup command - or - $ nohup command & ??
11:04 < SuperSeriousCat> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/speedtest-cli/
11:05 < TaZeR> that works pretty good, thanks
11:05 < kuri0> SuperSeriousCat, that is basically speedtest.net but command line
11:05 < TaZeR> its fine, i just wanted something to bring up fast in the console
11:05 < SuperSeriousCat> Exactly what he wanted
11:22 < mynameisdebian> How can I pass a string as a response to a prompt for input inside of a shell script or binary executable?
11:22 < mynameisdebian> Like, the script asks "Input several names separated by commas."   And I want to pass that in programmatically.
11:23 < c-c> mynameisdebian: Its just a string, is it not.
11:24 < c-c> mynameisdebian: what are you currently using in your script to reply to prompts?
11:24 < c-c> echo?
11:25 < c-c> Or, are you trying to pass input into a executed script, actually?
11:25 < revel> <<, I think.
11:25 < c-c> < or |
11:25 < mynameisdebian> c-c:  I'm using a program called certbot to request an SSL certificate for a provider, from several different domains.  The program asks me for a list of domain names.  Do I just pipe the text to the program?  If I do that and there are further prompts, is there a way to handle those?
11:25 < revel> No, that'd just write to stdin
11:26 < revel> << should work, afaik.
11:26 < c-c> mynameisdebian: I think $ somecmd < list_of_responses.txt
11:26 < c-c> mynameisdebian: separated by line feed
11:28 < iodev> mynameisdebian: use acme.sh
11:28 < iodev> instead, it's simpler, and better
11:29 < c-c> acme.sh?
11:30 < revel> It's an alternative to certbot, basically.
11:30 < sauvin> This might be a job for something I've never used but heard of: expect
11:30 < c-c> ok, Neilpang's project
11:30 < revel> sauvin: I've used it.
11:31 < revel> Oh, would you look at the time, bye.
11:32 < jim> expect is in tcl I think
11:47 < TaZeR> on paper nftables seems superior to iptables, am i better off just learning nftables from the start?
11:47 < TaZeR> or am i completely wrong and stoopid, let me know haha
11:48 < SuperSeriousCat> If you dont know any Id go with nftables
11:48 < paddy|> what do you plan to do with your knowledge?
11:48 < paddy|> protect your home network or use it in a business environment?
11:48 < c-c> I wonder if nftables is a 'newish' project, while iptables is 'mature'
11:49 < paddy|> because i use ufw and its so much simpler
11:49 < c-c> +1
11:49 < SuperSeriousCat> nftables came in kernel 3.13 and got a very good wiki
11:50 < TaZeR> its just for my home network
11:51 < TaZeR> so nftables it is, the syntax look easier if nothing else
11:51 < phre4k> hey, booted into systemrescuecd.org, how do I check the RAM on-line?
11:51 < Ben64> on-line?
11:51 < lukey_> phre4k: Prime95 maybe
11:52 < phre4k> lukey_: nice idea, tests the CPU too :)
11:57 < lukey_> phre4k: you can also try booting with memtest=17, this will even automatically remap bad ram regions
11:59 < TaZeR> hmm it looks like my iptables is broken from the start? it says this on running most commands "iptables v1.6.2: can't initialize iptables table `filter': Table does not exist (do you need to insmod?) Perhaps iptables or your kernel needs to be upgraded."
12:00 < phre4k> lukey_: found a cute little program called "memtester" :)
12:01 < phre4k> TaZeR: are you root, is the module installed/loaded, is your kernel compiled with iptables support? Does /etc/iptables.d/ or /etc/sysconfig/iptables exist?
12:02 < TaZeR> yea im running it as root im not sure about the services, those locations dont exist but i have /etc/iptables and yes for the kernel support
12:03 < c-c> bit late on nftables https://wiki.debian.org/nftables
12:08 < phre4k> TaZeR: did you install a new kernel lately? Reboot might be needed. Check: find /lib/modules/`uname -r` -name iptable_filter.ko
12:10 < TaZeR> i installed a new kernel yesterday but i rebooted "find: ‘/lib/modules/4.14.31-1-lts’: No such file or directory"
12:10 < phre4k> reboot again? :D
12:12 < TaZeR> i see now the service isnt running, but when i try to start it says "Job for iptables.service failed because the control process exited with error code. See "systemctl status iptables.service" and "journalctl -xe" for details. "
12:12 < TaZeR> i enabled it, will try reboot
12:14 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: How did you install this new kernel? You modules zseem to be missing
12:14 < TaZeR> hexnewbie: my distro just does it for me, i type a command like "pacman -Syu"
12:15 < TaZeR> i assume archlinux kernels come with iptables support
12:15 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: Ah, not familiar with Arch-land, but I'd check if modules don't come in a separate file you didn't install
12:15 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: Cause "/lib/modules/$(uname -r)" should exist
12:16 < hexnewbie> Alternatively, you somehow booted in an/the old kernel, after you uninstalled its modulez
12:20 < CoolerZ> help please ./testingpbc   ./testingpbc: error while loading shared libraries: libpbc.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
12:20 < CoolerZ> that file exists in /usr/local/lib
12:20 < CoolerZ> i tried running with sudo as well
12:20 < CoolerZ> its still saying the same thing
12:20 < CoolerZ> why?
12:21 < CoolerZ> anyone here?
12:22 < CoolerZ> heres the code https://paste.pound-python.org/show/7aFq7FJEitGNTGIXchfz/
12:22 < bazhang> yes
12:28 < CoolerZ>  echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH                                          :/usr/local/lib
12:28 < CoolerZ> it includes /usr/local/lib
12:28 < CoolerZ> so why is it not finding the file?
12:31 < TaZeR> so i rebooted and the iptables service is started with error https://pastebin.com/UzMQ1KMn
12:32 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: Does "/lib/modules/$(uname -r)" exist now?
12:32 < phre4k> CoolerZ: stop spamming, we are >2100 users in this channel, if anyone is online and has an idea they probably see it in a few minutes and write. Be patient.
12:32 < TaZeR> hexnewbie: doesnt appear to be
12:33 < phre4k> CoolerZ: maybe wrong architecture of lib? try strace/ldd'ing it
12:33 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: There's also the issue of the missing iptables.rules; but I don't believe that's a fatal error
12:33 < hexnewbie> It's possible that the file got deleted somehow by a bad stop script/service.
12:34 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: I assume you keep regular backups of / where you can check if iptables.rules existed before, and restore it from there if necessary?
12:35 < TaZeR> yes i keep some backups, ill check
12:35 < CoolerZ> phre4k, https://paste.pound-python.org/show/yvDXGvWeKHb73iOdgRl9/
12:36 < phre4k> CoolerZ: well, it's clearly not found
12:36 < CoolerZ> $ ls                                                                                                                                 libgmp.a  libgmp.la  libgmp.so  libgmp.so.10  libgmp.so.10.3.2  libpbc.a  libpbc.la  libpbc.so  libpbc.so.1  libpbc.so.1.0.0  python2.7  python3.5
12:36 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: Also ldd /usr/local/lib/libpbc.so.1
12:36 < CoolerZ> its clearly there
12:36 < phre4k> CoolerZ: maybe no read permissions?
12:36 < CoolerZ> i tried sudo ./testingpbc
12:37 < CoolerZ> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root       15 Apr  8 00:50 libpbc.so.1 -> libpbc.so.1.0.0
12:37 < CoolerZ> is that a symbolic link?
12:39 < hexnewbie> From what I can tell, that library was last updated in 2013; doesn't sound like a sound plan to use an obscure cryptography library that old (if it is good, it would be an accident)
12:39 < hexnewbie> Still ldd'ing the *library* is what will actually tell you if that library is usable or the same architecture as phre4k pointed out
12:40 < phre4k> ^
12:40 < hexnewbie> Well, that, and file
12:50 < mynameisdebian> Why can I "sudo touch /var/log/a" creating file a, but I cannot "sudo echo hi > /var/log/a" or "echo hi >> /var/log/a" whether a exists or not?
12:51 < mynameisdebian> the permissions on /var/log are 770 with owner root:root
12:53 < Hexagenic> when you do `sudo echo hi > /var/log/a`, I believe it does the echo as root, and the redirection as your current user.
12:53 < TaZeR> hexnewbie: it doesnt appear that iptables_rules or iptable_filter.ko ever existed on this system
12:54 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: /etc/iptables/iptables.rules is the file the error message from your pastebin talks about
12:54 < TaZeR> so how am i supposed to get this file?
12:56 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: Presumably, by adding iptables rules and saving them. I have not used that approach to use iptables.
12:56 < hexnewbie> TaZeR: I missed the start of the conversation, but I thought you had working iptables rules before the kernel upgrade, so I assumed you'd have the iptables.rules file in your backup (or something) :)
12:57 < TaZeR> hexnewbie: just now i found the .ko file under a different name in the lib directory iptable_filter.ko.xz
12:57 < mynameisdebian> Hexagenic: I am logging in via a Ruby script over SSH and executing a command that redirects to a log file.  Can you think of a workaround that doesn't involve changing ownership of /var/log or logging in through SSH as root?
12:57 < TaZeR> hexnewbie: no, i am configuring it for the first time
12:57 < Hexagenic> mynameisdebian, you can use the `dd` command like this `echo hi | sudo dd of=/var/log/a`
12:59 < Hexagenic> mynameisdebian, I would recomend setting better file permissions though. Maybe create a group that is allowed to log, and set the directories/files to that.
13:01 < mynameisdebian> Hexagenic: any commands I run in the script are run as "sshd" user over SSH.  I am not sure I can "passwd loguser" with Ruby but I'm still figuring it out
13:02 < TaZeR> so looks like the problem is only the iptables_rules file is missing, cant it just generate a new one?
13:02 < mynameisdebian> Hexagenic: I should actually mention that I'm trying to do something like   "mycommand >> /var/log/a 2>&1"
13:02 < mynameisdebian> Hexagenic: Any ideas on that?
13:04 < mynameisdebian> Hexagenic: I figured it out
13:04 < mynameisdebian> Hexagenic: Thank you
13:07 < wyseguy> anyone wanna take a stab at an odd unifi AP not adopting but others do issue?
13:07 < BCMM> hey, do you currently require nickserv identification to talk in here?
13:07 < wyseguy> BCMM who?
13:08 < BCMM> wyseguy: i mean, does this channel require nickserv id?
13:08 < wyseguy> not sure
13:08 < wyseguy> havent checked in over 10 years :p
13:09 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
13:10 < wyseguy> hey
13:10 < survey0r> o/
13:10 < wyseguy> someone really has the name hey in here? lol
13:11 < BCMM> well, with a name like that I guess he deserves constant highlights
13:11 < wyseguy> this is true
13:12 < wyseguy> know much about ubiquiti? no one talks in the ubiquiti channel :/
13:12 < wyseguy> i feel that i may just have a bad AP at this point
13:15 < wyseguy> i think im over this thing, has to be bad
13:15 < wyseguy> off to bed
13:15 < Ben64> wyseguy: things usually work better if you ask an actual question
13:16 < wyseguy> Ben64 i can see that being true, i did above
13:16 < Ben64> you didn't
13:16 < wyseguy> it says a unifi ap wont adopt and others will
13:16 < wyseguy> ...
13:17 < Ben64> i don't think that could possibly be any less descriptive
13:17 < wyseguy> so... i can adopt access points no issue, 1 of them wont
13:18 < Ben64> https://workaround.org/getting-help-on-irc/
13:19 < wyseguy> ran syswrapper.sh restore-default
13:19 < wyseguy> ah
13:19 < wyseguy> i see
13:20 < triceratux> wyseguy: what distro ? how are you "adopting" ? what are the other aps ? what behaviour or messages do you observe when the unifi fails to adopt ?
13:20 < wyseguy> so ya, restored defaults, shows up on network, can ssh into it, ran mca-cli, then set-inform http://x.x.x.x:8080/inform and it wont pop up on the controller to be adopted
13:21 < wyseguy> triceratux ubuntu 16.04, adopting through ssh, what other aps? no messages when it fails as it never pops up on the controller to be adopted
13:22 < wyseguy> its a vps server offsite
13:22 < wyseguy> i have other AP's here and can do the same thing and they show up to be adopted and it works fine
13:24 < wyseguy> any ideas?
13:25 < Li> what is the purpose of life?
13:25 < wyseguy> Li https://workaround.org/getting-help-on-irc/
13:25 < survey0r> lol
13:25 < Li> sex? money? fame?
13:25 < Li> power? maybe
13:26 < triceratux> doesnt look good https://www.google.com/search?q=unifi+access+point+adopt+fail
13:26 < BluesKaj> Li, the purpose of life here is to fix Linux problems
13:27 < wyseguy> triceratux well its not failing
13:27 < Li> BluesKaj: good one, but the question is how fit that into one of the above mentioned categories
13:27 < wyseguy> its not showing up to be adopted
13:27 < devilchaos> hi folks need a little guidence or pointing in the right direction of a room or person i can talk to about python and pycom hardware for setup and use been through the tutorials and stuff from there website so im good to go but it doesnt help with little things that id like to ask about hopefully theres a kind soul willing to help a newbie out
13:27 < BluesKaj> Li, wrong chat for that
13:27 < wyseguy> devilchaos #python
13:27 < Li> BluesKaj: it's wrong chat for everything trust me
13:28 < Li> I've asked zillion linux questions here none of them had a real answer
13:28 < BluesKaj> nope I won't trust you, I don't know you
13:28 < Li> so yeah it's very wrong chat here
13:28 < Li> specially when asking a question and random fucker suggest your man page or google
13:28 < devilchaos> wyseguy: ok maybe your not asking the right questions Li
13:28 < Li> wrong chat .. very true
13:29 < Hdphn> hi
13:29 < Hdphn> is 1.1.1.1 DNS working for you guys?
13:29 < Hdphn> I put in resolv.conf and  its not working
13:29 < Hdphn> sad
13:29 < wyseguy> devilchaos how so? other ap's show up to be adopted and adopt just fine, this one wont show uo to be adopted once i send the set-inform
13:29 < luxifer> Hdphn: works fine here
13:29 < triceratux> could be ready for a different supplier rofl https://www.troyhunt.com/ubiquiti-all-the-things-how-i-finally-fixed-my-dodgy-wifi/
13:30 < Hdphn> luxifer: you just changed /etc/resolv.conf right?
13:30 < Hdphn> luxifer: if so, please show me the config
13:30  * triceratux has thankfully never heard of ubiquiti
13:30 < devilchaos> wyseguy: sorry all that extra after ok was not meant for you lol
13:30 < wyseguy> triceratux its amazing hardware, not sure how you have not heard of it. first issue ive had in 6 years of using it
13:31 < wyseguy> devilchaos ah, i see what you did ther
13:31 < wyseguy> e
13:31 < the_drow> Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to use the flock command line. I have one program that has to run and another that has to wait for the first program to run.
13:31 < luxifer> Hdphn here you go https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/0kls3dEV/
13:32 < triceratux> wyseguy: theres always a first time. its definitely out there & requires some specific accomodation & understanding
13:32 < the_drow> I'm executing the first program as: flock -x /var/lock/packer-ansible.lock /usr/bin/ansible-playbook "$@";
13:32 < P_B> the_drow, not sure what you mean by the flock, but if you want commands to run sequentially, do: $ command1 && command2
13:32 < wyseguy> triceratux probably open a RMA ticket
13:32 < the_drow> How do I make the other one wait indefinitely for the lock to be unlocked?
13:33 < the_drow> P_B, This is not my first day with linux. These processes run in parallel and I'd like to sync them.
13:33 < P_B> ok.
13:33 < Hdphn> luxifer: which distro?
13:33 < luxifer> Anyone: Please share your thoughts on the state of btrfs and your rationale. I'm about to set up a little home server going back to linux after slight disappointment with the usability of freenas and I'm tempted to use btrfs for features like snapshotting, transparent compression and so on
13:33 < luxifer> Hdphn: Ubuntu 18.04... should work on any distro though... as long as you use resolvconf
13:34 < luxifer> Hdphn: can you ping 1.1.1.1 from that box?
13:34 < Hdphn> is ubuntu lts 18.04 released?
13:34 < luxifer> Hdphn: not yet, but soon
13:34 < Hdphn> luxifer: I can but cant use it  as dns :(
13:34 < luxifer> Hdphn: what if you do "dig google.com @1.1.1.1"
13:34 < luxifer> if that fails then you're blocked outside of your box
13:34 < triceratux> wyseguy: does that ubiquity stuff work on windows or with a mac pro ?
13:34 < triceratux> oops
13:35 < Hdphn> luxifer: ops. says  dig is not found
13:35 < Hdphn> using arch linux lol
13:35 < luxifer> Hdphn: install your equivalent of bind utils
13:35 < Hdphn> urgh. whats the  name of the package
13:35 < Hdphn> that contains nslookup and  dig
13:35 < Hdphn> in arch
13:35 < the_drow> P_B, flock is a linux mechanism to use files as locks. There's a command line in linux-util (debian at least) that wraps that system call.
13:35 < luxifer> Hdphn: dunno... :)
13:35 < the_drow> I'm not sure how the API works though
13:35 < OhPie> why am I more secure on a linux box? << I'm using a windows box to ask this quetions - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXM2h87Y1Y4
13:35 < Hdphn> luxifer: have you used arch before?
13:36 < luxifer> i have..
13:36 < luxifer> but didn't see the point
13:36 < OhPie> someone break the windows os
13:36 < Hdphn> why ubuntu now? just curious
13:36 < OhPie> I'd like that.
13:36 < Hdphn> since ubuntu is considered as beginner distro
13:36 < Hdphn> afaik
13:36 < luxifer> that's bs
13:36 < OhPie> linux is fine for open os
13:36 < OhPie> why?
13:37 < Hdphn> luxifer: are you on ubuntu gnome ?
13:37 < luxifer> it got that label because of it's polished desktop experience and "just works" attitude when it was new
13:37 < survey0r> ^
13:37 < luxifer> Hdphn: I'm not using it as a desktop
13:37 < BCMM> OhPie: package management. when downloading and executing binaries from the web is the normal way of installing software, mistakes can easily happen even for experienced users
13:37 < Hdphn> luxifer: what are you using it as then? whats your main desktop OS if not ubuntu?
13:37 < OhPie> BCMM <<|  but doesn't driver control enable security for linux?
13:38 < OhPie> and if yes; why?
13:38 < OhPie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXM2h87Y1Y4
13:38 < luxifer> Hdphn: I'm using it as a home server, for when I want to script stuff, as nas and for running my minecraft server at home
13:38 < OhPie> sir?
13:38 < phre4k> triceratux: why "thankfully", ubiquiti is great, esp. at the price point
13:38 < BCMM> OhPie: what does any of that mean?
13:38 < phre4k> prosumer / small office gear, scales well to up to 500 users
13:38 < OhPie> It means access to games.
13:38 < Hdphn> luxifer: I see
13:38 < BCMM> (and even if you're perfectly careful and *always* download .EXEs from legit sites only, there's no signature verification so you can get screwed if that website is ever compromised)
13:38 < OhPie> and video drivers.
13:38 < luxifer> my main desktop runs windows 10 pro because I cannot be arsed to reboot all the time... I like to play video games, you know? :D
13:38 < Hdphn> lol ok
13:38 < OhPie> why is linus helping me be safer?
13:39 < OhPie> and I mean linus
13:39 < luxifer> I have used ubuntu and gentoo with kde on my work laptop for years in my previous job though
13:39 < BCMM> and then there's the issue of updates... big software like Chrome has its own updater, smaller packages usually just stay out of date until you manually check the website
13:39 < BCMM> even if there are known security issues
13:39 < phre4k> OhPie: Linus and his minions check the code before it's put into the Kernel
13:39 < Hdphn> luxifer: dig google.com @1.1.1.1 gives me : Connection timed out; no servers could be reached
13:39 < luxifer> and also gentoo with gnome 2 way back when... at that time I was hardly playing anything else than WoW.. and that actually ran better under wine than on windows propper
13:40 < phre4k> OhPie: your questions are answered thousands of times in the internet, IMHO you should research yourself why Linux/Windows/macOS may be better/worse for you/your security.
13:40 < OhPie> phre4k <<| is that why linus was unhappy with the recent amd argument? about cpu cry?
13:40 < Hdphn> luxifer: haha ok
13:40 < luxifer> Hdphn: then something blocks outside of your machine
13:40 < Hdphn> luxifer: so... no way to use 1.1.1.1 as dns?
13:40 < BCMM> OhPie: you mean the amdflaws scare?
13:40 < phre4k> OhPie: no and yes
13:40 < Hdphn> maybe  its router issue?
13:40 < OhPie> yes
13:40 < luxifer> Hdphn: might be
13:40 < luxifer> you probably would want to set 1.1.1.1 as dns there anyway
13:40 < OhPie> I want my RIG TO BE STUPID SAFE!
13:41 < phre4k> OhPie: it has nothing to do with code review, but Linus likes to lash out at people for dumb practices and rightfully so
13:41 < Hdphn> luxifer: where
13:41 < OhPie> help me.
13:41 < Hdphn> in resolv.conf?\
13:41 < luxifer> and it might even actively block outgoing dns traffic
13:41 < luxifer> Hdphn: on your router!
13:41 < OhPie> phre4k <<| ok - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv0JislLi2I
13:41 < luxifer> OhPie: disconnect it from power and lock it into a safe, weld it shut and destroy the key
13:41 < BCMM> OhPie: it was basically fraudulent. a totally unknown security company found some relatively minor issues and marketed the hell out of them to capitalise on the attention around the spectre/meltdown thing
13:41 < OhPie> I don't see linux helping online p2p.
13:41 < BCMM> OhPie: either trying to make a name for themselves or just for plain old stock manipulation
13:42 < triceratux> phre4k: yep im not running any wifi nets of course but ubiquiti looks pretty capable. sounds like hes run into a bonafide linux bug that he should get cleared up tho
13:42 < OhPie> BCMM <<| amd is king.
13:42 < BCMM> i mean some of the vulnerabilities where along the lines of "if you have root access on a system, you can execute arbitrary code"
13:42 < OhPie> that's all I have to say about that.
13:42 < OhPie> come to usa; well pay you.
13:43 < OhPie> time to get paid.
13:43 < OhPie> open source has lost it's luster.
13:43 < Hdphn> an
13:43 < Hdphn> ah
13:43 < Hdphn> sponsor me
13:43 < Hdphn> I will come to great  USA
13:43 < OhPie> I like using windows to bring you.
13:43 < Hdphn> its my dream country
13:43 < OhPie> and I like access to say things I shouldn't.
13:43 < luxifer> Hdphn: who in their right mind would want to immigrate into the USA?
13:44 < OhPie> uniix is nice.
13:44 < Hdphn> luxifer: why not? USA economy is best
13:44 < Hdphn> more jobs more opportunities
13:44 < luxifer> Hdphn: and societies worst
13:44 < triceratux> the u.s. has lost its lustre. open source is doing fine
13:44 < Hdphn> luxifer: where are you from
13:44 < luxifer> no, that's not true
13:44 < BCMM> Hdphn: it's great for the people who already have money
13:44 < OhPie> ubuntu is good driver support but who here plays the latest games? - starwars ##?
13:45 < Hdphn> BCMM: what about immigrants? I see a lot of immigrants in USA becoming filthy rich just by standing in petrol stations
13:45 < Hdphn> hardwork is well recognized in USA
13:45 < phre4k> triceratux: "of course"?
13:45 < luxifer> Hdphn: I'm from Germany and I pity the citizens of the USA
13:45 < Hdphn> Germany is  cool too
13:45 < CoolerZ> to add the directory /usr/local/lib to the library search path do i just add the line  "include /usr/local/lib" to the end of the /etc/ld.so.conf file?
13:45 < Hdphn> however USA is the best. equal rights for everyone in USA and no language barrier
13:45 < luxifer> Hdphn: you don't get rich by pumping petrol... you might survive, even with a roof above your head, but that's that
13:46 < CoolerZ> and then run ldconfig ?
13:46 < Hdphn> why would I learn dutch lol
13:46 < luxifer> Hdphn: equal rights for everyone? LOL
13:46 < Hdphn> luxifer: in Germany yes, in USA you become rich
13:46 < OhPie> I'll learn dutch
13:46 < OhPie> teach me
13:46  * OhPie listens
13:46 < survey0r> Hdphn, equal rights for the rich, maybe :)
13:46 < luxifer> oh dear... can't be helped
13:46 < OhPie> the poor are my kinds
13:46 < BCMM> Hdphn: hard work enriches the person who owns the petrol station, not the person standing in it
13:46 < Hdphn> well. my cousins immigrated in USA. used to stand in store and now own 2 stores + big houses
13:47 < BCMM> Hdphn: there are objective measures of this: look at the Gini coefficient, for example
13:47 < luxifer> survey0r: but even then only if they  conform
13:47 < OhPie> I like removing fear.
13:47 < OhPie> chirp
13:47 < survey0r> true
13:47 < Hdphn> BCMM: yea in other countries. not in US
13:47 < BCMM> being an overall wealthy country is not the same thing as being a country composed mostly of wealthy people
13:47 < OhPie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv0JislLi2I
13:47 < OhPie> never be like another person
13:47 < OhPie> EVER.
13:47 < OhPie> Always be yourself!
13:47 < OhPie> Let yourself be!
13:48 < OhPie> Include yourself into other ideas!
13:48 < OhPie> Never stomp onto another!
13:48 < Hdphn> work environment is also great in USA. you greet with smile. unlike  3rd world countries
13:48 < oehansen> be like myself, who am "I" in me?
13:48 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: Probably unrelated to your actual issue. But yes, also creating a file in /etc/ld.so.conf.d/ imay be a better option if your distro supports it
13:48 < OhPie> Hdphn <<| wnats to take from other people.  << fail.
13:48 < OhPie> go away .
13:49 < OhPie> I see you
13:49 < OhPie> you're a social crutch.
13:49 < Hdphn> btw can you use kali as daily OS?
13:49 < Hdphn> its debian with tools isnt it
13:49 < oehansen> Be careful! "I" am an alien parasite, walking around in a MONKEY SUIT!
13:49 < tx> yes
13:49 < OhPie> debian screams
13:49 < tx> its just debian with some packages added to it
13:49 < tx> to make u look like a 1337 h4x0r
13:49 < OhPie> ubuntu is debinan
13:50 < CoolerZ> hexnewbie, yeah i thought about that
13:50 < triceratux> Hdphn: your enthusiasm is laudable. see if you can get a job with trump. youd be a model immigrant
13:50 < CoolerZ> whats the difference?
13:50 < OhPie> it wants windows indian horde driver money
13:50 < CoolerZ> make it easier to undo by just removing the file?
13:50 < srgj931> I have large icons showing in latest vlc 3.x releases. I know its because of some gtk/dpi stuff but cant get managed to fix that.
13:50 < OhPie> you have icon art?
13:50 < OhPie> everyone has icon art
13:50 < triceratux> Hdphn: parrotsec is better than kali insofar as being a security oriented debian based pentesting distro which is also a viable general purpose desktop
13:51 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: *.d/ config directories are more considerate to package/system upgrades, because that allows the upgrade to overwrite the config file without erasing the configuration in the *.d/ directory
13:51 < tx> What makes kali un-viable?
13:51 < Hdphn> triceratux: but it lacks  tools that kali has
13:51 < Hdphn> even the main ones such as  metasploit\
13:51 < OhPie> security is slow push systems.
13:51 < OhPie> everyone knows this.
13:51 < CoolerZ> hexnewbie, ok i will probably do that
13:51 < triceratux> Hdphn: you can install all that stuff & itll save you the agonies of kali down the road
13:51 < CoolerZ> btw does gedit work if you don't have a graphical install of ubuntu?
13:52 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: But also the system configuration (to be overwritten on upgrade) is probably also moved to a separate file in the directory, so not so critical :)
13:52 < Hdphn> triceratux: lol ok. parrot OS is stable?
13:52 < triceratux> Hdphn: even the linux foundation doesnt mind it https://www.linux.com/learn/security/parrot-security-could-be-your-next-security-tool
13:52 < OhPie> Linux is a useless system.
13:53 < OhPie> it's driver access is slow
13:53 < OhPie> it's community is arrogant.
13:53 < OhPie> am I wrong?
13:53 < luxifer> OhPie:  about the drivers, yes
13:53 < hexnewbie> OhPie: Yes, it's spelled ‘its’\
13:53 < luxifer> and about the uselessness, too
13:53 < luxifer> but you nailed it about the community... at least some of it
13:54 < OhPie> let's modify the open source mind?
13:54 < oehansen> how is linux a useless system?
13:54 < oehansen> and if it is so useless, what da heck are you doing on #linux
13:54 < hexnewbie> OhPie: That would be illegal, immoral, and a human rights violation
13:54 < BluesKaj> oehansen, don't bite
13:54 < survey0r> lol
13:54 < P_B> You can get an out-of-the-box OS with productivity suites, multimedia support, every internet program you could need, and support for most major hardware, in a hundred flavours to suit, in under an hour, for free.
13:55 < P_B> And you say linux is done?
13:55 < triceratux> OhPie: linux is just a compatibility layer between the bootloader & x11 running opera 51. its quite useful. dont pay any attention to the arrogant community. they read too much doc written by bsders
13:55 < OhPie> BluesKaj <<| you are smart.
13:55 < hexnewbie> triceratux: systemd-kerneld will soon make that Linux obsolete!
13:56 < CoolerZ> OhPie, are you a flat earther?
13:56 < OhPie> Linux systems aren't responsible for windows systems that enable privacy of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv0JislLi2I
13:56 < OhPie> BluesKaj <<| what say you?
13:57 < OhPie> I want my house to excluded from your snoop.
13:57 < oehansen> Windows and privacy, that's almost the definition of an oxymoron ... you mean the new "indian based" insertion of endless advertisement, is a privacy thing?
13:57 < OhPie> look up oehansen
13:57 < OhPie> Don't you?
13:58 < OhPie> SECURE ME! -
13:58 < oehansen> OhPie: I am not ... "I" am alien parasite, walking around in a monkey suit ... and who are you
13:58 < OhPie> oehansen <<| I know. Yes you are sir.
13:58 < oehansen> and you look like a nice suit, to me ... an empty suit :-)
13:58 < OhPie> </end>
13:59 < luxifer> I take it I won't get any qualified opinions about the state of btrfs here at this point in time
13:59 < OhPie> ---------Driver support.
13:59 < OhPie> let's remove cloud linux support, being compromised system?
13:59 < hexnewbie> Earth is a useless system. It's driver access is slow. It's population is arrogant. You know I am not wrong.
14:00 < dgurney> luxifer, state of btrfs? it's fine, just make sure you're running the newest kernel
14:00 < oehansen> tell me about it, driving around in a monkey suit ... is slow!
14:00 < dgurney> though I don't I'm particularly qualified
14:00 < OhPie> Linux is compromised and linus is pissed about knowing about it.
14:00 < OhPie> video not needed.
14:01 < hexnewbie> dgurney: Does newest mean the one from 2028, or will 4.16 actually not eat my data anymore? :)
14:01 < OhPie> conclusion: Security is compromised.
14:01 < dgurney> very funny
14:01 < mrig> OhPie, Linux was written to be a desktop :P
14:01 < oehansen> Linus Torvalds, is a sorry excuse for a "compromise" in the linux community ... because back in 1995-7, people thought it needed a single "face".
14:01 < OhPie> very true
14:01 < luxifer> dgurney: what's your rationale? can you elaborate a bit? I'm thinking about using snapshots, compression, subvolumes, etc
14:01 < tx> I think any filesystem that requires a bleeding edge kernel to not eat your data
14:01 < mrig> just used as a sever as there was nothing better :D
14:01 < tx> may need to sit in the oven for a while before I'd start to use it
14:01 < tx> that's my 2c. ;)
14:02 < OhPie> I think you should pay me for my opinion?  Do you agree?
14:02 < dgurney> my rationale? I use to store data on my server with compression, and it hasn't caused any troubles yet
14:02 < oehansen> ohpie, if shet was money ... you'd get rich fast
14:02 < OhPie> Never << provide me with admin access.
14:02 < OhPie> I will KILL this conversation.
14:02 < hexnewbie> tx: It's been in an oven for some years since it last ate my data. I may be overcooking it now. But fool me twice, shame on you, won't let them get me fooled again.
14:02 < mrig> OhPie, opine all you like, I wont request your silence :)
14:02 < luxifer> dgurney: did you have any potentially corrupting events yet, like a power outage? how's the recovery and maintenance tools come along?
14:03 < OhPie> mrig <<| neat, and clean.
14:03 < OhPie> as a writer.
14:03 < OhPie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv0JislLi2I
14:03 < OhPie> windows cloud product provides to linux boxes.
14:03 < OhPie> so sad.
14:04 < dgurney> luxifer, yes, I accidentally turned off my power strip once, and nothing was wrong once the system came back up
14:04 < luxifer> about eating data: XFS is considered mature, yet it will also happily eat your data under certain circumstances... so...
14:04 < OhPie> anyone up for fucking the duck?
14:04 < luxifer> dgurney: that's encouraging :)
14:04 < dgurney> every fs will cause data loss or corruption in the right circumstances
14:04 < ghulan> OhPie, Wise decision.
14:04  * oehansen blows a raspberry
14:04 < hexnewbie> luxifer: It has eaten my data, but I know why. So controlled circumstances. :p
14:04 < tx> XFS isn't necessarily designed for fault-tolerant, reliability
14:04 < tx> it's just fast
14:04 < tx> and old :D
14:04 < oehansen> fuck'dat'duck
14:05 < CoolerZ> <oehansen> Windows and privacy, that's almost the definition of an oxymoron ... you mean the new "indian based" insertion of endless advertisement, is a privacy thing?
14:05 < CoolerZ> what did you mean by that
14:05 < luxifer> tx: that's insightful, thanks :)
14:05 < hexnewbie> luxifer: Btrfs on the other hand ate my data just because if felt like doing it on that morning ;)
14:05 < CoolerZ> are they delivering ads to windows 10 users based on country?
14:05 < luxifer> hexnewbie:  xD
14:05 < tx> XFS is an old muscle car.
14:05  * OhPie takes notes : #2 oehansen: YOU sir are a good listener.
14:05 < tx> brtfs is a new fancy tesla
14:05 < BCMM> yeah but that's part of the fun of btrfs
14:05 < tx> sure
14:05 < tx> But some people don't want a fun FS
14:06 < oehansen> CoolerZ: You do know, that windows 10 has an advertising engine built in ... that's kinda "monitoring" your activity, to provide "good ideas of products you might wanna buy".
14:06 < CoolerZ> no i don't know
14:06 < oehansen> really?
14:06 < CoolerZ> i did hear about the privacy invasion
14:06 < luxifer> so what to do? I'm gonna need something to make the most out of 5 spinning rust disks on a sw raid 6... there's ecc but no ups (yet).. and I want to be able to grow the thing later on by switching the disks for larger ones
14:06 < oehansen> oh yes
14:06 < OhPie> if I was a software compartment I'd post online what I think others should think?
14:07 < CoolerZ> that they are monitoring the websites you visit, search terms entered in start menu, etc
14:07 < CoolerZ> how often you use certain programs
14:07 < oehansen> OhPie: You would probably get a lot further, by trying to tell people what "not" to think ...
14:07 < CoolerZ> and that its hard to turn off all that tracking
14:07 < luxifer> I also want as little maintenance as possible... doing enough of that stuff at work and I don't want to have to mess around with my home IT if it can be avoided
14:07 < oehansen> coolerz, as far as I can tell ... you can't.
14:07 < CoolerZ> oehansen, where does it show the ads?
14:07 < tx> Why not just use ext4 then?
14:08 < OhPie> ohmegaohm <<| always tell people nothing.
14:08 < CoolerZ> in the microsoft store?
14:08 < tx> Watch all of the filesystem hipsters complain.
14:08 < tx> Just you watch.
14:08 < OhPie> <oehansen> OhPie: You would probably get a lot further, by trying to tell people what "not" to think ... << know oneself.
14:08 < luxifer> tx: because I'd also like to have snapshotting capabilities and, if possible, transparent compression
14:08 < OhPie> woman.
14:08 < dgurney> well, if features like compression, snapshots etc. are desired ext4 simply won't work
14:08 < oehansen> coolerz, you will see the selections change in the menu system, whenever you go browse, etc.
14:08 < tx> Ah right, you're after some things.
14:08 < tx> Not just a drop and go sort of dealio.
14:08 < OhPie> You do realix that there are few authors?
14:09 < luxifer> I've tried freenas and hadn't it been such a shit show in terms of usability I would even stay with it
14:09 < CoolerZ> oehansen, but what does that have to do with india?
14:09 < OhPie> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this conversation is being logged.
14:09 < luxifer> but I actually liked ZFS
14:09 < OhPie> fart burt
14:09 < dgurney> well you could use zfs on linux if you want to
14:09 < oehansen> coolerz, the new ceo of microsoft? and new owners, kinda? maybe? ... I don't know ...
14:09 < OhPie> Here's an idea: TEll other people that they should pay yo for your words?
14:09 < OhPie> Here's an idea: TEll other people that they should pay yo for your words?
14:09 < CoolerZ> oh i don't follow all that stuff
14:10 < OhPie> Here's an idea: TEll other people that they should pay yo for your words?
14:10 < luxifer> dgurney: from what I've gathered so far this is not something anyone would want to do in it's current state ;)
14:10 < hexnewbie> dgurney: Why? Illumos would be so much cooler ;p
14:10 < OhPie> they should pay you?
14:10 < oehansen> OhPie: and they'll flock around listening to you ... fer FREE! :-)
14:10 < tx> From my experience, I'd say ZFS is quite a bit more stable
14:10 < OhPie> Most chinese people are slicking you?
14:10 < hexnewbie> tx: It just crashed on me ;p Like a minute ago
14:10 < OhPie> chinese mindset is
14:10 < OhPie> know your chinaman
14:10 < mrig> quit
14:11 < luxifer> *sigh*
14:11 < tx> hexnewbie: I don't use ZFS much
14:11 < OhPie> never allow circumspect
14:11 < tx> but from what I have used
14:11 < tx> (of it)
14:11 < tx> It seemed to be the better of the two at the time
14:11 < oehansen> chinese mindset, is kinda nationalistic ... don't learn other languages, don't study other ideas ... old chinese medicine is better than the new one.  They know it all, can do it all ...
14:11 < luxifer> tx when was that?
14:11 < tx> august last year
14:11 < OhPie> linux is now the new troll machine.
14:11 < luxifer> ok, that's pretty current
14:11 < luxifer> *recent
14:12 < ghulan> I'd like the new delegation to be a "elitorian."  How's that?
14:12 < OhPie> ew troll machine.
14:12 < hexnewbie> tx: Apr  8 xx:05:49 elided kernel: [14555.438094] VERIFY3(sa.sa_magic == 0x2F505A) failed (1523189149 == 3100762) / Apr  8 xx:05:49 elided kernel: [14555.438099] PANIC at zfs_vfsops.c:426:zfs_space_delta_cb()
14:12 < OhPie> ew troll machine.
14:12 < OhPie> what security does linus offer?
14:12 < hexnewbie> But apart from that, it's lovely :)
14:12 < survey0r> hehe
14:12 < ghulan> Ah, he's running it.
14:12  * oehansen am gonna go take a poop ... bbsyal
14:12 < OhPie> linus where is my security?
14:12 < luxifer> xD
14:13 < luxifer> wow... irccloud is really neat
14:13 < CoolerZ> OhPie, you remind me of that witch from disney movies
14:13 < tx> hexnewbie: that was floating around the issue tracker
14:13 < luxifer> when you start ignoring someone it will also remove any previous messages from that person
14:13 < OhPie> https://www.redhat.com/en
14:13 < tx> does this match your scenario ? https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/issues/7117
14:13 < hexnewbie> tx: I know, I have read several of those
14:13 < OhPie> CoolBreeze <<| I'm MEZZER
14:13 < tx> You on bleeding edge or what?
14:14 < hexnewbie> tx: It seems to happen to me every few months.
14:14 < OhPie> I CREATE DEATH TO SLOW GAMERS
14:14 < tx> Anyway, you're probably gonna get crashes on a filesystem that tries to do more than just..
14:14 < tx> store files.
14:14 < CoolerZ> cryptic rants
14:14 < tx> take home from any of these new swanky fs's
14:14 < hexnewbie> tx: This issue - https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/issues/6332 , except on oldstable (Debian Jessie 8.0) and backported stable/Stretch kernel
14:14 < OhPie> driver access is king
14:15 < OhPie> let's go further
14:15 < OhPie> linux is fine... but hardware access is king
14:15 < OhPie> who writes drivers in usa?
14:15 < OhPie> let's move driver access bosses to usa?
14:15 < CoolerZ> actually OhPie could be a machine learning bot thats generating random strings and learning from the responses
14:15 < hexnewbie> tx: ZFS is also backported from Stretch, so the relevant bits are from Stable
14:16 < OhPie> I'm not you.
14:16 < tx> what version?
14:16 < CoolerZ> case and point  "<OhPie> let's move driver access bosses to usa?"
14:16 < OhPie> stop creating doubt.
14:16 < CoolerZ> who says that
14:16 < tx> 0.7.6-1?
14:16 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: Interesting bias in messages for a bot though.
14:16 < OhPie> you
14:16 < luxifer> hexnewbie: a so you're using zfs on linux
14:16 < CoolerZ> hexnewbie, yeah its learning
14:16 < OhPie> https://www.redhat.com/en
14:16 < hexnewbie> tx: 0.6.5.9-5~bpo8+1
14:16 < tx> OhPie is still talking?
14:16 < dgurney> yes
14:16 < tx> lol
14:17 < OhPie> why do all linux punks want the money of cloud devices .. ?
14:17 < CoolerZ> kind of like that microsoft bot that went nazi
14:17 < tx> Tay?
14:17 < OhPie> why do you?
14:17 < BluesKaj> random meaningless comments fit to be ignored
14:17 < bookworm> indeed
14:18 < CoolerZ> OhPie, can you solve a captcha?
14:18 < OhPie> are you - this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXEwh2Fwvrw
14:18 < luxifer> and then, when you're ignoring someone, you're like... oh what did they say... when you can just read the reactions of others
14:19 < CoolerZ> OhPie, what is 2 + 2 ?
14:19 < OhPie> I think captcha should be replaced with - -feel responses- -
14:19 < CoolerZ> hmm not very advanced it seems
14:20 < luxifer> I think OhPie is fake news
14:20 < CoolerZ> maybe i should come back after it has had a few hours of training
14:20 < OhPie> I doubt our ability to know OhPie
14:20 < Skybot> KNOW A WHITE
14:20 < tx> Skybot: you should become 'meme'
14:21 < tx> For maximum fleek and dankness.
14:21 < Skybot> I will never be like you - http://upli.st/l/list-of-all-ascii-emoticons
14:21 < tx> That's ok, I know only the best would dare change their nick to 'meme'.
14:21 < CoolerZ> why Skybot? was Skynet copyrighted?
14:22 < BCMM> that's not what ascii is.
14:22 < Skybot> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUZG4GatJA0
14:22 < CoolerZ> or are you waiting to infect every computer in the world before you rename yourself to skynet?
14:22 < Skybot> If you're going to try
14:23 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: You can't copyright a name, but the robots are enforcing its usage. You shall not dare use their name, or Arnold Schwarzenegger will come for you
14:24 < CoolerZ> hexnewbie, trademark a name?
14:24 < Skybot> linus uses windows systems for its availability?
14:25 < CoolerZ> Skybot, please realize you are probably running on and training on a linux system
14:26 < Skybot> Not at all. You realize; you're getting paid off of my response.
14:26 < Skybot> Unless you do not?
14:26 < ghulan> He's probably using paste as a substance abuse narcotic.
14:26 < Skybot> I'm one of those people that doesn't agree with  you.
14:27 < collins> Skybot: I don't agree either, whatever it's all about
14:27 < collins> I'm disagreeing so much that I don't even need to know what I'm disagreeing with
14:27 < Skybot> it's about driver access
14:27 < tx> Skybot: I would like you to sponsor my country of Australia by advertising it as your nickname
14:27 < ghulan> whoer wha?
14:27 < tx> I will pay you in bluntcoins
14:27 < tx> pls change nick to 'aussie
14:27 < tx> '
14:27 < Skybot> Aussies are new to the online community; wecome.
14:28 < tx> wecome in peas.
14:28 < ghulan> So you guys translate pseudo-code and syntax back and forth between implementation in projects?
14:28 < tx> No.
14:28 < collins> in fact, the density of my disagreement is creating a gravitational singluarity, i.e. a black hole and you'll all eventually get sucked into it.. unless you agree with the disagree
14:28 < hexnewbie> tx: Australia is a Round Earth conspiracy, there's no way there's land straight underneath my feet with people walking upside down!
14:28 < Skybot> Most aussies want to fuck.
14:28 < tx> Pesudo-code is only useful (for me) in very complicated / mathsy designs
14:28 < tx> or at school.
14:28 < ghulan> Ah, yes.  tx is right.
14:28 < Skybot> am I awrong?
14:28 < tx> when I was at school ;)
14:28 < tx> Skybot: u didn't change ur nick tho
14:28 < tx> so I don't believe your sincerity
14:29 < hexnewbie> tx: (I'm probably more directly opposite of New Zealand, but whatever ;p )
14:29 < BluesKaj> skybot and ohpie are the same bot
14:30 < BluesKaj> same IP
14:30 < jellyb> are you suggesting these guys are some type of AIs
14:30 < mawk> they have the same username as well
14:30 < pikaro> is there some "question mark / unknown / missing" image I can rely on being present on most desktop distros?
14:31 < tx> Send him pages and pages of black fax pages, that'l show him.
14:31 < collins> is there a way to make linux jobs more social? I feel so alone. 20 years of just coding and doing linux stuff in my underpants, completely alone. I regret all that.
14:31 < mawk> probably the very ugly X pictograms pikaro yes
14:31 < tx> pikaro: doubtful :(
14:31 < tx> maybe in Xorg?
14:31 < mawk> yes
14:31 < jellyb> you can go to meetups
14:31 < pikaro> uargh
14:31 < hexnewbie> pikaro: image-missing from your current icon theme
14:31 < jellyb> or work for google in their campus instead of telecommuting
14:31 < pikaro> hexnewbie, yes, but that means I have to learn how to handle that in python ;)
14:32 < hexnewbie> pikaro: But that's only for GNOME icon themes
14:32 < BCMM> BluesKaj: he's still got ohpie as the name (not nick), and if i'm reading it correctly that's what's been quieted
14:32 < tx> but even then, you wouldn't be able to support wayland
14:32 < tx> unless they do have their own base icon / pictogram set
14:32 < mawk> embed it in your python pikaro
14:32 < pikaro> it's only for i3, so luckily no wayland, but also no reliance on gnome
14:33 < pikaro> mawk yeah that's probably best
14:33 < mawk> it's not exactly best but it will work
14:33 < BluesKaj> BCMM, it's still listed in the ubuntu chan...but hasn't been active there
14:33 < mawk> best is to use the current theme
14:33 < chindy> Anyone here using Manjaro ?
14:34 < tx> hexnewbie: I joint the official FE discussion group on facebook
14:34 < tx> my gosh.
14:34 < tx> joined*
14:34 < BCMM> chindy: you should probably just ask your Majaro question (if you have one). it tends to be more effective than waiting for a response to "anybody using".
14:34 < CoolerZ> what is happening here?
14:34 < CoolerZ> $ sudo echo /usr/local/lib > pbc.conf                                             -bash: pbc.conf: Permission denied
14:34 < BCMM> chindy: but there is, i believe, a #manjaro channel, if that helps
14:35 < mawk> CoolerZ: echo stuff | sudo tee pbc.conf
14:35 < hexnewbie> tx: I take it its probably something. Hilariously traumatic, or traumatically hilarious?
14:35 < CoolerZ> mawk, ?
14:35 < mawk> sudo applies to echo, the > is done by your unprivileged shell
14:35 < BCMM> CoolerZ: you don't have write permission to pdc.conf
14:35 < CoolerZ> BCMM, yes i do
14:35 < mawk> read again what I said CoolerZ
14:35 < tx> hexnewbie: the former
14:36 < BCMM> this seems like a good use for the sudo tee pattern/antipattern
14:36 < CoolerZ> mawk, why do i need to use tee?
14:36 < CoolerZ> mawk, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17115664/can-linux-cat-command-be-used-for-writing-text-to-file
14:36 < CoolerZ> that doesn't use tee
14:36 < BCMM> CoolerZ: well, that's what the error means.
14:36 < mawk> because you don't have the right to write to that file CoolerZ
14:36 < mawk> that's why you added sudo
14:36 < BCMM> CoolerZ: what makes you so sure you have permission to write there?
14:36 < mawk> but you put sudo in the wrong place
14:37 < mawk> you can do: sudo bash -c 'echo stuff > pbc.conf'
14:37 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: It also doesn;t use sudo. The redirection is handled by the current shell (not the program running with elevated privileges)
14:37 < BCMM> CoolerZ: echo never needs to be run with sudo, so it looks a *lot* like you know you don't have write permissions
14:37 < CoolerZ> mawk, i am root and looking at ls -l i have rw
14:37 < CoolerZ> rw-r-r-
14:37 < mawk> you're not root
14:37 < mawk> otherwise you won't have that error message
14:37 < BCMM> CoolerZ: if you're root, why are you running sudo? and why is your shell prompt $ instead of #?
14:37 < CoolerZ> hmm maybe i am not root
14:37 < P_B> if you're root, why sudo?
14:37 < mawk> judging by the $ from the line you pasted you're not root
14:37 < CoolerZ> yeah the terminal is $
14:38 < BCMM> CoolerZ: try typing whoami
14:38 < CoolerZ> it should be # ?
14:38 < mawk> so you're not root
14:38 < mawk> but it's fine, don't become rooto
14:38 < tx> Mine is C:\
14:38 < CoolerZ> i don't remember making another account tho
14:38 < tx> am I doing it right?
14:38 < mawk> just use sudo in the right place everytime you need elevated privileges
14:38 < BCMM> CoolerZ: there is a convention that $ is a user prompt and # is a root prompt. but that's only a convention, and it can be overridden
14:38 < BCMM> CoolerZ: you should always have another account
14:38 < mawk> so here you can either use tee either use sudo bash -c ''
14:39 < BCMM> don't log in as root for day-to-day use on a desktop
14:39 < mawk> during the installation many distros create another user CoolerZ
14:39 < CoolerZ> BCMM, i think it made a normal account on install
14:39 < CoolerZ> ubuntu i mean
14:40 < hexnewbie> tx: PS1='C:$(sed s:/:\\\\\\\:g <<< ${PWD^^})> '
14:40 < mawk> that looks ugly
14:40 < jim> tx, please spell out u as you, it helps people (particularly new english speakers) to understand, at least, most of what's going on
14:40 < chindy> OKay, lets put it this way, Can you recommend using Manjaro? What are the disadvantages ?
14:40 < CoolerZ> mawk, why wouldn
14:40 < tx> jim: sorry?
14:40 < CoolerZ> mawk, why wouldn't  sudo echo stuff > file.txt work?
14:40 < CoolerZ> > redirects stdout right?
14:40 < mawk> CoolerZ: sudo applies to echo and only echo
14:41 < mawk> the > is still done by your $ shell
14:41 < mawk> it's {sudo echo ...} > stuff, not sudo { echo ... > stuff }
14:41 < CoolerZ> yeah so redirect the stdout of echo to the file and echo is running as sudo
14:41 < mawk> in pseudobash
14:41 < jim> that was from a few minutes ago when skybot was spewing stuff
14:41 < mawk> echo is running as sudo but redirection isn't done by echo CoolerZ
14:41 < mawk> it's done by bash
14:41 < CoolerZ> ok
14:41 < mawk> you need a command that will _write_ to the file as root
14:41 < mawk> and that's tee, or that's sudo bash -c ''
14:41 < CoolerZ> so sudo { echo stuff > file.txt }  would work ?
14:42 < mawk> no
14:42 < mawk> it was pseudocode
14:42 < mawk> that'd be sudo bash -c 'echo stuff > file.txt'
14:42 < CoolerZ> there's no { } syntax?
14:42 < mawk> yes but for shell internals, not for sudo
14:42 < hexnewbie> tx: Of course, one can make the experience fully immersive with: function command_not_found_handle () { echo "Bad command or file name"; };
14:42 < tx> hexnewbie: I have.. a script that does a lot of changes
14:42 < CoolerZ> well thx
14:42 < tx> for fish shell
14:43 < tx> but it's so old that it's sitting on my university server somewhere, from yeeears ago
14:43 < tx> it might be gone. :(
14:44 < slondr> parted more like rarted
14:44 < tx> slondr: yeah same
14:45 < hexnewbie> tx: I kind of miss MS-DOS dir's output, so I've been meaning to adjust my ls aliases accordingly (to at least supplant with df -hT / findmnt -D info)
14:50 < CoolerZ> how do you hide everything it prints before the $ prompt?
14:50 < phogg> hexnewbie: What do you miss about it?
14:51 < phogg> CoolerZ: change your PS1
14:51 < phogg> CoolerZ: e.g. PS1='\$ '
14:51 < CoolerZ> phogg, that will only affect the current session right?/
14:51 < CoolerZ> not permanent?
14:51 < phogg> CoolerZ: right
14:52 < CoolerZ> why do you need to escape $?
14:52 < phogg> CoolerZ: you have to repeat it for every time you log in, which typically means putting it in your .bashrc
14:52 < CoolerZ> because its used to get the value of variables?
14:52 < pankaj> What are some features of SELinux present in commonly used Linux Distributions?
14:52 < mawk> CoolerZ: for $ to become # if root
14:52 < phogg> CoolerZ: escaped $ will be printed as $ if your UID is > 0 and # if your uid is 0
14:52 < mawk> you can add colors
14:52 < phogg> pankaj: All of them
14:53 < mawk> \[\033[1m\]I'm bold !\[\033[0m\]
14:53 < CoolerZ> ok
14:53 < phogg> mawk: you should really use tput for that
14:53 < azarus> mawk: not for me you're not
14:53 < azarus> BOLD
14:53 < tx> hi gmh
14:53 < tx> gms*
14:53 < mawk> bold
14:53 < mawk> +C is set on the channel :(
14:53 < pankaj> phogg: So............Examples like
14:53 < azarus> :/
14:53 < CoolerZ> mawk, yeah colors are nice
14:54 < mawk> to make a portable thing I guess phogg
14:54 < phogg> pankaj: Like read the documentation. What are you really asking?
14:54 < mawk> in my distro's bashrc I've always seen the raw codes
14:54 < mawk> but it checks for xterm before that
14:54 < phogg> mawk: for some things you have to (colors might be one).
14:55 < hexnewbie> phogg: The free space
14:55 < phogg> mawk: http://wiki.bash-hackers.org/scripting/terminalcodes
14:55 < phogg> hexnewbie: DOS dir lists free space?
14:55 < hexnewbie> phogg: yes
14:55 < mawk> yeah
14:57 < phogg> I guess I can see why when floppies were the norm, but how is it useful now?
14:57 < tx> how it is useful now in DOS?
14:57 < tx> I guess the better question is
14:57 < tx> how useful is DOS to you now? ;)
14:57 < azarus> phogg: dos doesn't have `df` i think
14:57 < phogg> tx: it just hasn't changed there
14:58 < tx> yes, the equivalent command in DOS is
14:58 < tx> dir | find  "bytes free"
14:58 < tx> or to just dir and look :D
14:58 < tx> or to be a big boy and download a df equivalent (commandprogs etc.)
15:00 < hexnewbie> Sigh, OK, I wish findmnt's  output was bash-parseable.
15:01 < tx> what are you looking to get as the outpu
15:01 < tx> t
15:01 < hexnewbie> tx: Hm, good point, I don't actually need to parse it
15:01 < tx> you can change the output with -l and -j
15:01 < tx> for list and json
15:02 < hexnewbie> tx: Bash can't parse either JSON (not supported on my findmnt version), --pairs, or --raw . And without --pairs or --raw the output is unparsable anywhere
15:02 < DLange> or --raw for nicely parseable lines
15:02 < mawk> bash can do regexes hexnewbie
15:02 < tx> define "unparsable"
15:02 < mawk> and by crossing your fingers you can parse json using regexes
15:02 < hexnewbie> tx: Bash doesn't speak \x20
15:03 < tx> you grepping ?
15:03 < hexnewbie> tx: So if the mountpoint for --pairs or --raw is /mnt/Test\x20volume, bash won't be able to convert it back to human-readable form
15:04 < hexnewbie> I'm somehow surprised how blkid  (-o export) is more bash-friendly than these new lsblk/findmnt things :)
15:05 < DLange> hexnewbie: of course it can ... echo $'hex\x20newbie'
15:05 < hexnewbie> DLange: That's a literal. How can I apply that to a variable?
15:07 < hexnewbie> Preferably not with var="$(eval "echo \$'$var'")"
15:07 < DLange> A=$'hex\x20newbie'; echo ${A}
15:07 < DLange> use the $' on assigment
15:07 < tx> hot
15:07 < hexnewbie> I can't. The \x20 is coming from Anti-Bash findmnt/lsblk fancy new crappy tools :)
15:08 < hexnewbie> But since I only want to reformat the output, I guess I'll not parse it at all.
15:08 < tx> sed 's/\x20//g' m8
15:09 < tx> (not being serious)
15:13 < hexnewbie> tx: I may as well do “perl -pe 's/\\x([0-9]{2})/chr(hex($1))/eig'” or “python -c 'import sys; sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.read().decode("string_escape"))'”. But it kind of takes bash out of the equation, and is quite unsightly for my ls alias :)
15:19 < fSharp> hello, after already having created a number of GPT partitions on disk, the terminal tells me that a block device is required to create the next partition. what does this mean?
15:19 < fSharp> 'command failed with code 15: Block device required'
15:19 < fSharp> luks partitions, they are
15:26 < phogg> fSharp: what command did you run exactly?
15:27 < fSharp> phogg, 'sudo cryptsetup --verbose --verify-passphrase luksFormat /dev/sdbX' (replacing X with device number)
15:31 < flavius> Hi. What would you guys use for partitioning to accomplish the same results as the synology SHR, as described here: https://www.synology.com/en-us/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/Storage/What_is_Synology_Hybrid_RAID_SHR ?
15:32 < ychaouche> Hello ##linux
15:33 < ychaouche> Anyone can confirm that according to this trace, there's a xt_geoip module lodaded in my kernel ? https://gist.github.com/ychaouche/6298f63f2f65adf564a4502d62fab307
15:33 < ychaouche> oh, I forgot it was sunday today...
15:33 < tx> ye
15:34 < tx> so check your iptables then
15:35 < phogg> ychaouche: to accomplish the same thing you need only to choose a base block size and partition your disks into that size before feeding those partitions in to your setup as block devices
15:35 < nobody> hi :)
15:35 < ychaouche> phogg: that wasn't for me was it ?
15:35 < flavius> phogg: ?
15:35 < phogg> ychaouche: e.g. if you have one 250G drive and one 1T drive you can partition the 1T into 4 250G partitions and then have a raid array built on 5 "disks"
15:36 < phogg> ychaouche: ah, sorry... I mean flavius for all of that
15:36 < phogg> ychaouche: tabbed away and back and got confused, sorry
15:37 < phogg> flavius: you just have to be a little careful with it so you actually have redundancy in the end
15:37 < ychaouche> Glad you emerged from the fog
15:39 < flavius> phogg: yeah well I'm not so much worried about having drives of different sizes. What I want most is to be able to increase the storage in the future by adding bigger drives and then removing older drives. Let's say I buy a NAS with 8 bays and 4 disks 4TB each and in 10 years, the 12TB disk is going to be the norm. I want to add four of 12TB, and then remove the old ones - if possible without having to do any
15:39 < flavius> repartitioning
15:39 < voiter> i just want to check my knowledge about vpn: every vpn client that connects to the vpn server is accessible by any host in that vpn (given that there are respective deamons listening).
15:39 < phogg> flavius: that's exactly what I do on all systems
15:40 < flavius> phogg: which tools and filesystems do you use?
15:40 < ychaouche> voiter: VPN LAN over Internet
15:40 < voiter> ychaouche, not sure what you mean
15:40 < phogg> flavius: I use mdraid with lvm on top
15:42 < flavius> phogg: yeah I was thinking about this. So what's roughly the procedure?
15:42 < phogg> flavius: I have at least raid1 with 2 disks. I join the two disks as raid1 using mdraid, then use md0 as a single PV for LVM. A few years later I swap out one of the raid1 disks with one of twice the size, let it rebuild the raid1, then swap the 2nd disk, let it rebuild. Now you can either partition the extra space on each new disk and make another raid1 array and feed it in as another PV or grow the partition used on each device. Then expand t
15:42 < phogg> he PV, then expand LVs as desired and then expand the filesystems on top.
15:44 < flavius> phogg: thanks. So I'll be able to change the size (thanks to LVM), I won't have to keep the partitions in the same ratio to each other
15:44 < phogg> flavius: the same principle works with any type of raid. You could do it all with lvm only, but I like the way mdraid works and is managed better and it's simpler to think about the md side as handling the raid part and lvm only for slicing it up for use
15:44 < phogg> flavius: exactly
15:45 < flavius> phogg: how about the speed? And about SSD?
15:45 < phogg> flavius: I do this for literally all of my personal computers, nevermind storage systems. Two disk raid1, double the capacity when the cost drops to under 200USD, repeat.
15:46 < phogg> flavius: I don't care about the speed so I've never even benchmarked it. That said it's reasonably usable.
15:46 < phogg> flavius: and I'm currently still sitting on the fence about SSDs. Until last year I was treating them as too new to be trusted, now still too expensive for mass storage use.
15:47 < flavius> Would for instance borg backup work reasonably fast, both for backup and for restore? I would back up my workstation there and I'd need to be able to work within a few hours, should something crash
15:48 < Dan39> is there a version of tar or similar that will copy selinux contexts even though the host linux doesn't have selinux? tar tells me "SELinux support is not available". aren't selinux contexts like just xattrs on files? i figured it should be possible to copy them just fine even though my system doesnt have selinux
15:48 < phogg> flavius: I don't use borg backup. I just use rsync. I imagine borg would be better.
15:49 < phogg> flavius: I also only back up home dirs and a few odds and ends, not entire systems. I keep it on a "while I sleep" schedule and have not had any issues.
15:49 < flavius> phogg: did you ever test that recovery works? Yeah, I also only back up my home directory and the list of packages installed, and the /etc directory
15:50 < mawk> you've got a cool ip akem
15:50 < mawk> give it to me
15:50 < phogg> flavius: Because everything is raid1 anyway I have not actually needed a restore from backup. I have replaced some disks.
15:51 < phogg> flavius: double-redundancy is a little more expensive but you can't beat the peace of mind
15:52 < SporkWitch> raid0: live on the edge :P
15:52 < flavius> ok, so lvm, potentially with mdadm
15:53 < phogg> I lived on the edge once. Then I lost 200G of data. Then I started building guard rails, safety harnesses and early warning systems. There's no such thing as too careful when you have data that cannot be recovered from somewhere else.
15:53 < ychaouche> voiter: when you setup a LAN-to-LAN VPN any machine from the first LAN can see any other machine from the second LAN.
15:54 < phogg> flavius: Yes. LVM alone would likely perform better (I am guessing) but I couldn't figure a nice way to get it set up. Of course I worked this out years before distributions started having LVM partitioning in their install routines, maybe it's easier now.
15:54 < flavius> I lost once a project on which I worked for 3 years
15:54 < flavius> phogg: I'll research, thanks. I use arch
15:54 < phogg> flavius: in my 200G loss case I found I could restore a one year old backup. It was still heartbreakingly painful. Never again!
15:55  * Octa-X summons Cthulu.
15:55 < absurdistani> phogg: I recently lost 4TB due to an external RAID enclosure malfunction
15:55 < flavius> phogg: so the new drives MUST be twice the size?
15:55 < absurdistani> years of music and movies... gone.
15:55 < voiter> ychaouche, ok, thanks
15:55 < phogg> flavius: No, that's just what I do. When I can double capacity it's worth the sync time.
15:55 < SporkWitch> absurdistani: contact the NSA to restore from their backups :P
15:56 < absurdistani> SporkWitch: XD
15:56 < sanroot> what is lvm
15:56 < SporkWitch> sanroot: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+lvm
15:56 < flavius> logical volume nanager
15:56 < phogg> absurdistani: that's sad, but at least other people have copies of those things. Recovery is *possible*. When you lose a year of your own creative output...
15:56 < ychaouche> Linux Virus Malware
15:56 < fSharp> hello, after already having created a number of GPT partitions on disk, the terminal tells me that a block device is required to create the next partition. what does this mean?
15:56 < absurdistani> SporkWitch: I actually thought the whole Hilary's emails thing was just a bogus propaganda thing, because like... the gov could literally just call the NSA and get the emails...
15:57 < absurdistani> phogg: that's true
15:57 < ychaouche> sanroot: it's a program you install directly on the hard disk. Once you do that, if one of the disks get corrupt and you need to change it, you're practically screwed.
15:57 < absurdistani> phogg: it will just a seriously long time
15:57 < phogg> absurdistani: indeed
15:58 < SporkWitch> absurdistani: even if they had them, they wouldn't be able to reveal them because that would be admitting they had them.  The NSA is explicitly prohibited from operations on US soil or going after US citizens.  It's one of the reasons for the particular degree of outrage at the surveilance.
15:58 < jkemppainen> > The NSA is explicitly prohibited from operations on US soil or going after US citizens
15:58 < jkemppainen> heh
15:58 < jkemppainen> they seemingly don't care about that
15:58 < SporkWitch> jkemppainen: like i said
15:58 < Azrael_-> what a surprise...
15:59 < flavius> How do they earn their bread if they don't spy on US citizens?
15:59 < absurdistani> well, I mean... they also spy on all of the USA's supposed allies. not a really friendly thing to do.
16:00 < SporkWitch> absurdistani: but that's at least not a violation of our own laws
16:00 < absurdistani> SporkWitch: but it is a violation of treaties, which would be law in the USA
16:00 < absurdistani> hooray for corruption
16:01 < SporkWitch> absurdistani: would it?  One of the ways the NSA got around it _legally_ was by cooperating with their British counterparts; we'd give them dirt on their citizens and they returned the favour; technically they weren't spying on their OWN citizens, so those rules weren't broken.
16:02 < BluesKaj> The 5 Eyes
16:02 < absurdistani> SporkWitch: that does work for UK and ostensibly for Canada, Australia, New Zealand (I am just guessing that they have a similar agreement). But what of France, Germany, Spain, Chile?
16:03 < flavius> What enclosures are linux-friendly?
16:03 < flavius> for NAS
16:03 < BCMM> flavius: as in, USB SATA controllers?
16:03 < tx> any?
16:03 < SporkWitch> flavius: shouldn't matter; USB Mass Storage is a standard
16:03 < tx> Any with a web UI, that is.
16:03 < tx> Not some crappy windows configuration tool.
16:03 < BCMM> flavius: any of them ought to work with linux, - mass storage class doesn't require drivers for specific devices
16:04 < tx> flavius said NAS specifically
16:04 < tx> the assumption is that is networked
16:04 < SporkWitch> NAS shouldn't matter either
16:04 < BCMM> tx: i think he's asking for an enclosure to attach to his existing NAS
16:04 < tx> a few of them unfortunately come with windows-only setup tools
16:04 < BCMM> (which runs linux)
16:04 < tx> which is easy to work around
16:04 < BCMM> not for a new NAS which will be linux compatible
16:04 < tx> but for the novice, may be confusing initially
16:04 < BCMM> flavius: is that correct?
16:04 < tx> ah
16:05 < tx> Just the filesystem format then :D
16:05 < tx> non hardware issue
16:05 < SporkWitch> and this, kids, is why you take advantage of the fact that IRC is not twitter and actually FINISH your thoughts, so you don't have it broken up confusingly and get responses to a partial query
16:05 < phogg> flavius: it all depends on how much money you want to spend and how much control you want to have.
16:05 < BCMM> this isn't very linux-specific, but its nice to have SMART passthrough support on a USB enclosure, so you can identify if the hard drive inside starts to fail
16:06 < phogg> flavius: you can get any self contained NAS box with an embedded OS and turn the key and be running. That's cheap. If you want maximum control you need to be able to install your own OS, and now you're in storage array territory.
16:06 < BCMM> smartmontools has a list of devices with working SMART https://www.smartmontools.org/wiki/Supported_USB-Devices
16:09 < flavius> Found SilverStone DS380 much better for flexibility
16:11 < flavius> will go with ASRock C2750D4I
16:11 < ghulan> o.u?
16:13 < flavius> sorry?
16:13 < Azrael_-> flavius: were just in the same spot like you. thought about building my own system as a nas. in the end i resolved myself to this item:  QNAP TS-451+   prebuilt nas and possible to exchange the os to set up everything myself. at least it is said, debian works on this one.
16:13 < Azrael_-> ordered it and waiting to start :)
16:17 < flavius> Azrael_-: so you're going with mdadm and lvm or just lvm?
16:18 < P_B> I will soon be building a 4x 2000MB RAID 10 array that, preferably, would be accessible in both debian and windows. Linux is most of my day-to-day, windows just for gaming or any software that I otherwise can't get to work in linux. I've never done anything like this before. Should I initialise the array in hardware using my motherboard's raid utility, or delegate it to software in either OS?
16:19 < Dreaman> P_B: funny clean debian
16:19 < P_B> uh, sorry?
16:21 < P_B> Dreaman, are you a bot?
16:21 < Dreaman> no
16:21 < AnAverageHuman> Exactly what a bot would say.
16:21 < Dreaman> thise mashine us clean debian
16:21 < Azrael_-> flavius: no perfect plan yet. only decided onto mdadm with raid 10 so far. probalby also lvm. will try debian + nextcloud for syncronizing with my android phone
16:21 < Dreaman> interesting
16:21 < hexnewbie> What makes you think are you a bot?
16:21 < P_B> Who would program a bot to just LIE, AnAverageHuman?
16:22 < Dreaman> P_B:  install debian see
16:22 < Dreaman> hahahahah
16:22 < Dreaman> interesting
16:22 < Azrael_-> P_B: hardware raid could perform better, but i'd probably go for software raid with mdadm. if the mainboard dies it could get difficult to reassemble/rescue the raid. with software raid i assume it would be easier
16:23 < P_B> ah I hadn't considered that problem, Azrael, thanks.
16:23 < P_B> Will an array built in one OS talk happily with another though?
16:23 < Dreaman> https://forum.bgirc.com/topic/143-ubuntu-linuxdebian/   P_B:   my theme
16:23 < Dreaman> hahahahahah
16:23 < Dreaman> seee
16:23 < P_B> like, is it standardised enough that if I can find a package that windows will recognise it as an array and treat it accordingly
16:23 < phogg> Software raid is what I do. Real storage people think it's crazy, but the performance hit means nothing to me. I prefer it because I know Linux will outlast hardware availability.
16:24 < Azrael_-> P_B: so you are talking about dual boot? that's a whole different game.
16:24 < phogg> P_B: No. For that hardware RAID is *required*. In addition Windows mostly can't read Linux filesystems.
16:24 < P_B> I am not real storage people. Just a data hoarder who has been neglecting his hoard for a decade.
16:24 < phogg> P_B: if you want a chunk of storage capacity accessible to both Linux and Windows you should get a NAS.
16:25 < phogg> P_B: or build one yourself
16:25 < BCMM> the idea of a RAID array which relies on a single hardware component puzzles me greatly
16:25 < phogg> P_B: If it's locally attached you can either (a) use FAT32, (b) use NTFS and have problems on Linux, (c) not be able to access the same data from both Linux and Windows.
16:26 < hexnewbie> Hm, my path to Redmond world domination and turning Bash into DOS is on the right path: https://paste.linux.community/view/8c07b9ed
16:26 < P_B> well I've read and written routinely to and from both OSes without issue so far, phogg. The RAID is a new beast to me though
16:26 < BCMM> i guess hardware raid might make sense if you've got backup hardware in a box for the day things go wrong? but that just seems expensive and inconvenient.
16:26 < Azrael_-> P_B: using what file system?
16:26 < phogg> BCMM: that's the idea
16:26 < SporkWitch> linux NTFS write support has been perfectly fine for the better part of a decade now, if not more; the only thing funky is permissions
16:26 < P_B> there's been ext2/3 (and maybe 4 now?) filesystem drivers for winnt for at least a decade.
16:27 < P_B> and yeah, I also routinely write to NTFS drives from linux too
16:27 < SporkWitch> P_B: the problem is that nearly all of those implementations are standalone applications, not system-level support.  You start the program and can access the filesystem in a window akin to winscp
16:27 < phogg> BCMM: Here's the logic: If you're doing RAID in software that costs CPU cycles, so your read and write speeds go down. You probably don't want that. So you offload the RAIDing to a dedicated card, and you get your cycles back. You still get protected against spinning rust failures and the dedicated card, having no moving parts, is unlikely to fail.
16:27 < Azrael_-> SporkWitch: used writing on ntfs recently when rescuing a screwed disk but it smashed the ntfs-partition twice!
16:27 < P_B> phogg, so what makes hardware RAID generally incompatible between controllers?
16:28 < phogg> SporkWitch: Permissions are a bit funky if you access only from Linux, but if you sometimes adjust permissions on Windows it gets more than a little hairy.
16:28 < Dreaman> P_B:  interesting to see this bulshit
16:28 < P_B> Oh, I am using onboard RAID, which I imagine is not a "real" controller and just uses CPU anyway, phogg
16:28 < Dreaman> is big mistake
16:28 < SporkWitch> Azrael_-: YMMV during recovery, but in general operation it's just fine, which is why most distros even default to mounting NTFS as rw these days
16:29 < phogg> P_B: That's the worst of both worlds: It's still slowing you down AND if you lose your motherboard recovery is difficult.
16:29 < P_B> hrrrrm.
16:29 < SporkWitch> phogg: yeah, the lovely side-effects of tacking a half-assed permissions system onto a single-user operating system like windows lol
16:29 < P_B> heh
16:29 < Dreaman> P_B:  try to see
16:29 < Dreaman> hahahah
16:30 < P_B> fortunately I built two identical systems - one for the missus - so I have a good deal of redundancy if it comes to that. Based on this conversation I am wondering if I would be better off splashing out for a dedicated RAID controller card?
16:30 < phogg> P_B: if you do that you should buy two and keep one in a drawer.
16:31 < P_B> So what's the deal? RAID is a religion, with no true standardisation between churches, just the same general idea? :P
16:31 < phogg> simple raid cards are inexpensive enough, but finding the exact same one in 5-10 years may be impossible
16:31 < Azrael_-> P_B: imho a dedicated raid controller card doesn't give you much advantage from an onboard raid one. like phogg sais, it could be useful in case it fails, just put the secondary in or move the card to a new system
16:31 < phogg> P_B: yes
16:31 < P_B> bleh.
16:31 < Dreaman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfLngiO03XI   P_B:   see hahahahah panimaesh li po russkavam
16:31 < phogg> P_B: RAID is a concept, not a format or a protocol.
16:31 < Dreaman> my debian install
16:31 < lukey_> P_B: raid0/1/10 can easily be done in software raid5/6 preferably in hardwarie with proper battery-backed cache
16:31 < Azrael_-> that's why i like software raid with open source. less problematic when you have to change something
16:32 < P_B> We manage to agree on filesystems. Why has no RAID standardisation eventuated?
16:32 < phogg> everyone does it a little differently and sometimes the little differences are the differentiating factor that make one vendor able to claim to be better than another
16:32 < hexnewbie> The battery backed controller will be quite expensive.
16:32 < phogg> P_B: not much point to it I guess. If you're worried do raid1. Then recovery is easy.
16:33 < P_B> yeah, I'm not looking to splash out that much. I bought two new drives with the intention of doing only mirroring. It slipped my mind that I already had two other drives the same size, all bought less than 2 years ago, and none has had a heavy duty cycle
16:33 < P_B> So I thought, why the hell not go for full raid10
16:33 < Hu4x3r1980> ‹ ‹ Dictionary is now active. Type !dicthelp to see the commands › ›
16:33 < Hu4x3r1980> ‹ ‹ Dictionary is now active. Type !dicthelp to see the commands › ›
16:33 < hexnewbie> It almost makes me feel guilty we have plenty of those in the servers, unused (JBOD use and some even with software RAID-1 on top)
16:33 < phogg> I've got it. Use Linux on an external storage server to RAID the disks using mdraid and then present the md disks as raw devices over the network using iSCSI!
16:34  * P_B rubs forehead. 
16:34 < tx> !dicthelp
16:34 < phogg> Now you have the RAID without hardware being an issue and can make whatever filesystems you like and access from Linux or Windows.
16:34 < P_B> Yes, that will simple and without spanners in works. :P
16:34 < P_B> To be fair, you have solved the problem.
16:35 < phogg> Hu4x3r1980: are you a bot?
16:35 < hexnewbie> phogg: Ultimate goal: MD RAID, export the RAID over iSCSI, attach to QEMU/KVM using virtio-scsi as a LUN, use MD RAID on a couple of those located on different servers
16:35 < phogg> hexnewbie: Playing the "how slow can we make this" game?
16:35 < Hu4x3r1980> no , i am not a bot :)
16:35 < tx> ya better off with a plain jane NFS setup with some Vm disk images
16:35 < tx> :)
16:35 < hexnewbie> phogg: Been there, done that. Not as slow as it sounds.
16:36 < Azrael_-> hexnewbie: you forgot drdb to replicate it to multiple remote servers
16:36 < phogg> tx: indeed
16:36 < lukey_> hexnewbie: with synchronus replication to an remotte datacenter
16:36 < phogg> hexnewbie: I'll keep that in mind
16:36 < tx> I have tried NFS and iSCSI for a XenServer setup
16:36 < tx> iSCSI had no performance benefits in my specific setup (w/ multipathing)
16:36 < hexnewbie> phogg: Well, it was horrifically slow before we remembered to disable the bitmaps on at least one of the RAIDs involved.
16:36 < phogg> hexnewbie: LOL yeah
16:36 < phogg> hexnewbie: I assume you disabled it on the VM side?
16:37 < hexnewbie> phogg: Yeah. And the iSCSI target side, the bitmaps got moved to SSD.
16:39 < phogg> I'm convinced the only reason that motherboards still ship with their own software raid support is to work around the fact that Windows insists on being terrible.
16:39 < P_B> Are all these problems surrounding "what if I lose the controller" eliminated by just using RAID 1?
16:39 < phogg> P_B: yes
16:39 < phogg> but remember to write a bootloader to all disks in the raid1 array
16:39 < SuperSeriousCat> It ships with their own software raid to be able to print it on the box
16:40 < Azrael_-> P_B: raid 1 just clones the data onto 2 disks, so even if one disk is gone, you can normally use the other one without problem
16:40 < hexnewbie> phogg: Or marketing reasons which I assume will exist even if Windows wasn't terrible (didn't it have RAIDs using dynamic disks or something? Linux supports those through DM userland tools AFAIK)
16:40 < P_B> I have no actual *need* for the performance of 0, just... I can actually afford it and stuff now
16:40 < phogg> SuperSeriousCat: but if you run Linux you'd never use it
16:40 < phogg> hexnewbie: I don't know what you mean by dynamic disks
16:41 < jellyb> if windows was terrible microsoft wouldnt be worth 700 billion
16:41 < Azrael_-> never risked it to use the windows software raid solution yet
16:41 < jellyb> its not like linux hasnt existed as an alternative
16:41 < phogg> jellyb: that's a fallacy; terrible things can still be successful
16:41 < phogg> Azrael_-: is there one? Pretty sure I've never seen it
16:42 < P_B> hrrm. Okay, it sounds like under my circumstances, I'd actually be better off just going raid 1. My reasoning in the first place is that I've lost more than my fair share of large drives over the years, and I'm damn sick of it. If the RAID array itself isgoing to introduce a liability, it isn't worth it for my purposes
16:42 < jkemppainen> jellyb: No; that only shows people spend money on it. Its quality is separate.
16:42 < Pentode> example, from an audio / electronics engineering perspective, beats headphones are despicable and yet ubiquitous.. o_O
16:42 < P_B> Same question then. Hardware or software, given that I want to address it from either OS?
16:42 < Azrael_-> phogg: i'm also not 100% sure, but i think i saw something about it and now i read somebody in here mentioning something similar. so i thought it would exist
16:42 < jkemppainen> Pentode: Exactly.
16:42 < jellyb> choose to spend money on it, over alternatives
16:42 < jkemppainen> Pentode: Their bass response is hilariously exaggerated to give the illusion of 'quality'.
16:42 < phogg> We must distinguish "working" and "successful" from "good." I can write a *working* sort algorithm, but it may not be *good* if there was a better one I could have written.
16:43 < Azrael_-> phogg: but just like i said: i never risked to use some of those options yet. too fishy what happens in the backend and without this information, no clue how it will react in all situations
16:43 < hexnewbie> phogg: Microsoft's alternative to LVM (or LVM PVs, nor sure of the Redmond terminology), which allow you to mirror them, and you can bring up on Linux using ldmtool.
16:43 < Pentode> yeah they use the same cheap parts as any other headphones and slip a hidden passive equalizer in there to suck the midrange out and make them sound "good"
16:44 < phogg> hexnewbie: Mirror only?
16:44 < P_B> ...
16:44 < P_B> yeesh. They're bad on purpose?
16:45 < phogg> P_B: if you want access from both OSes you can't use Linux software raid. If you worry about longevity buy a dedicated card, but if you're doing raid1 only onboard is probably fine.
16:45 < Pentode> from a marketing standpoint though it was a brilliant idea.
16:45 < P_B> thanks for the advice, people!
16:45 < P_B> I will go with onboard hardware raid1, phogg. You may have saved me from a catastrophe in 3 years or so. :P
16:47 < hexnewbie> phogg: I have never actually used it, so I don't know. But given that the main advantage of fakeraid is that you can use it to dualboot (*if* you get it to work in both OS), I'm not sure if cheap fakeraid dualboot setups can't be fully replaced with that
16:47 < Hu4x3r1980> oh i'm tired af
16:47 < hexnewbie> Point is, I'm not sure fakeraid has any use. :)
16:47 < Pentode> i have a decent external usb3 enclosure that can combine disks for "pseudo" raid1. ;p
16:47 < phogg> hexnewbie: I've never heard of anyone using it. Can't be too useful, right?
16:47 < Pentode> it works, if you just want to have a single mirrored disk or use two as one
16:48 < hexnewbie> ArchLinux has a 100-page manual for it! The person who wrote it has been using it
16:48 < Azrael_-> 100 page manual for what?
16:49 < hexnewbie> Er, disregard that one. I had opened the man page, not the ArchLinux wiki. I'm stupid :) (ldmtool)
16:49 < hexnewbie> Azrael_-: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dynamic_Disks
16:50 < Azrael_-> wow
16:52 < Hu4x3r1980> ‹ ‹ Dictionary is now active. Type !dicthelp to see the commands › ›
16:52 < Hu4x3r1980> ‹ ‹ Dictionary is now active. Type !dicthelp to see the commands › ›
16:52 < Hu4x3r1980> ‹ ‹ Dictionary has been turned off › ›
16:52 < Hu4x3r1980> ‹ ‹ Dictionary has been turned off › ›
16:53 < Pentode> o_O
16:53 < hexnewbie> They killed the dictionary, now how will we talk with no words?
16:54 < Pentode> we'll have to use hex / binary i guess. maybe morse code?
16:54 < Pentode> the only thing i know is sos though. :|
16:55 < tx> ... . -. -.. / -. ..- -.. . ...
16:55 < hexnewbie> Just replace Morse codes with the ASCII codes
16:56 < Hu4x3r1980> binary ❤
16:56 < m1n> hey, I booted up iso on this sketchy laptop ("replacement" from dell, and "dell" never asked for it back). I had a problem trying to startx last night, then the computer failed to start systemd when rebooting; this morning, I tried a fresh iso, but the drives fail to load in lsblk. Does anyone know why the heck the partitions don't show up?
16:57 < barometz> it sure sounds like the disk is toast
16:57 < Pentode> sure does
16:57 < hexnewbie> m1n: Sounds very much like the failing drive on my first laptop. init dying with ‘Bus Error’ was gold.
16:57 < m1n> I had a lot of problems in bios settings; I am very sure that someone messed with the laptop
16:57 < tx> check your system / kernel logs using dmesg (et al.)
16:57 < tx> to see what it says
16:57 < m1n> hexnewbie: barometz Pentode it's a NEW laptop
16:57 < m1n> brand spanking new
16:57 < Pentode> so? lol
16:57 < tx> doesn't matter
16:57 < tx> it could be DoA.
16:57 < m1n> it worked well until it failed with startx
16:58 < Pentode> mechanical drives are doa all the time
16:58 < m1n> (except I couldn't access bios in insecure boot)
16:58 < m1n> it's SSD
16:58 < tx> m1n: check your logs man
16:58 < m1n> I can't even boot it up
16:58 < Pentode> maybe its blacklisted
16:58 < tx> boot up to a USB
16:58 < Pentode> is it a samsung drive? i bet its one of those evo things
16:58 < m1n> Pentode: dell xps 13
16:58 < hexnewbie> m1n: Do you remember any of the errors you got?
16:59 < m1n> none
16:59 < tx> You can't boot a USB?
16:59 < m1n> there was some bs error from xinit
16:59 < m1n> I can
16:59 < Pentode> m1n, what drive is it
16:59 < tx> Give it a go
16:59 < m1n> nvm0n1 I think
16:59 < tx> see what you can take a peek at
16:59 < Pentode> there are quite a few ssd drives that have issues working with the linux kernel due to trim issues
17:00 < m1n> ok thanks; I am not a linux guru, but I will do my best. starting up arch iso here
17:00 < m1n> AE_NOT_FOUND Namespace error .. saw that warning briefly in systemd
17:00 < hexnewbie> Pentode: Hm. Symptoms may be similar, even. Would it progressively destroy data on the drive until it all fails?
17:00 < m1n> ok on the iso
17:01 < Pentode> hexnewbie, yeah they tend to give the appearance of working fine for a while, lol
17:02 < Pentode> and the drive manufacturers are going back and forth with the linux kernel with one or the other blaming it on each other. :|
17:08 < Hu4x3r1980> .
17:08 < Hu4x3r1980> ‹ ‹ Dictionary is now active. Type !dicthelp to see the commands › ›
17:09 < Hu4x3r1980> ‹ ‹ Dictionary is now active. Type !dicthelp to see the commands › ›
17:09 < Hu4x3r1980> !dicthelp
17:09 < tx> Hu4x3r1980: Please contain yourself.
17:09 < Pentode> canyou test that thing somewhere else
17:09 < tx> try #botters
17:10 < Hu4x3r1980> okay need to test it somewhere else , (tx) i will try it & you try #silent-people-but-wanna-say-do-this-and-do-that
17:10 < Hu4x3r1980> !bye :)
17:10 < tx> cya mate
17:11 < JJBby> Ok, I have been distro hoping around and have been using the CLI as much as possible. Is there really that much differnce between distros really? I am currently using Antergos based on arch and I see how package managment is different for one thing, but for most use case they all seem very similiar especially the more you strip them of GUI use.
17:11 < JJBby> am I completly off base?
17:12 < azarus> JJBby: depends
17:12 < azarus> most distros are really alike
17:12 < azarus> And then there are the truly different ones.
17:12 < ejr> JJBby: I fully agree with you. Distro hopping is fun but eventually pointless and a waste of time, unless you have really special demands.
17:13 < JJBby> azarus, those different ones typically have use case scenarios dont they?
17:13 < azarus> JJBby: not necessarily
17:13 < tx> JJBby: When you distro hop
17:13 < tx> what are you looking for, specifically?
17:13  * hanetzer uses the gentoo
17:13 < JJBby> ejr, yeah, im learning a lot hopping around but think i should just settle on a Debian base distro and get work done
17:14 < JJBby> tx, i was hoping around to learn different aspects of linux. just exploring really
17:14 < ejr> JJBby: the best way to learn a lot is to just read man pages, experiment and use the cli for basically everything
17:14 < tx> Pick one based on its support, maturity, community
17:14 < tx> everything else is usually just some pre-set up stuff
17:14 < m1n> JJBby: package managers are different, and various things that don't matter for Desktop Users
17:14 < SporkWitch> JJBby: pretty much why i run kubuntu on my workstations.  plenty of support, and it pre-installs 99% of what i'd install anyway, without too much extra i'd skip.
17:14 < tx> good for playing around, yes :)
17:14 < tx> JJBby: you might like linux bbq
17:15 < azarus> hanetzer: with OpenRC? :)
17:15 < SporkWitch> although arch can be fun, and is useful for learning since it forces you to do a lot of things yourself instead of doing it for you
17:15 < JJBby> hanetzer, how much of a leap is Gentoo from arch?
17:15 < SporkWitch> JJBby: very similar mindsets, but you compile everything from source
17:15 < tx> https://linuxbbq.org/
17:15  * azarus has used (and is still using) Gentoo in some places
17:15 < tx> Fun to play with.
17:16 < SporkWitch> portage is a really awesome package manager, though
17:16  * azarus has moved on to Alpine Linux and OpenBSD however
17:16 < P_B> distro hopping is a great way to learn. I think in the early days I went through mandrake, redhat, slax, before eventually landing on debian.
17:17 < SporkWitch> i'd stay away from straight debian for workstations; nice for servers, but the focus on stability above all else results in some pretty outdated repos
17:17 < JJBby> tx, thats an interesting site! I am prob going to just switch to 1 distros and stop hoping
17:17 < tx> If you want to try lots (and lots of) of window managers, lbbq has 76 ready to go :D
17:17 < hanetzer> azarus: aye.
17:17 < P_B> The cool kids can have their ubuntu, SporkWitch :p
17:18 < SporkWitch> P_B: unity can GDIAF
17:18 < P_B> \o/
17:18  * azarus does not buy in to the "stability" meme
17:18 < triceratux> tx: thats one of my favourite distros. its one of the rare genuine chinese linuxen. & its solid debian
17:18 < hanetzer> JJBby: not much for installation; if you can install arch, without using an 'installer', you can install gentoo
17:18 < JJBby> I really like using the Yaourt packagemanager and like Arch a lot but I dont want to have 2 distros to swap to run a debian and an arch.
17:18 < SporkWitch> i still can't forgive gentoo for adding an automated installer; feels like cheating :P
17:19 < ejr> I am running Debian sid, almost exclusively in a tty + tmux, or with i3wm. That allows me to run pretty much the latest packages in an environment I have been used to for 10 years or so, and still high stability.
17:19 < JJBby> hanetzer, not there yet then, i used Antergos to install arch
17:19 < azarus> Gentoo doesn't have an automated installer?
17:19 < tx> Let's add an automated, graphical installer for LFS.
17:19 < hanetzer> JJBby: well, with gentoo, ''yaourt'' is built into ''pacman'' already :)
17:19 < hanetzer> azarus: no
17:19 < SporkWitch> main headache for arch is waiting on stuff to get updated in the AUR, and people screwing up the keys
17:19 < P_B> neat, ejr
17:19 < tx> I am on Debian buster
17:19 < azarus> hanetzer: i asked rhetorically
17:19 < tx> just so I get slightly newer KDE
17:19 < hanetzer> JJBby: in fact, the main gentoo repository, aka ::gentoo, is just one 'overlay' of many
17:19 < azarus> hanetzer: because SporkWitch implied it
17:20 < hanetzer> azarus: ah
17:20 < SporkWitch> azarus: it added one at one point; if they got rid of it, good
17:20 < azarus> SporkWitch: Don't recall that. When did it happen? :o
17:20 < tx> JJBby: don't forget to give Red Star OS a go
17:20 < tx> in a sandboxed VM
17:20 < SporkWitch> azarus: at a guess, around 2006 or 2007
17:20 < tx> always a great time
17:21 < azarus> I wasn't into UNIX-like systems then :P
17:21 < SporkWitch> damn kids, get off my lawn
17:22 < JJBby> tx, red star for spanish users?
17:22 < tx> for north koreans
17:22 < SporkWitch> ^
17:22 < azarus> north korea best korea
17:22 < tx> http://www.openingupnorthkorea.com/downloads-2
17:22 < SporkWitch> of course we all know the TRUE distro is TempleOS
17:22 < JJBby> tx, i am coming back with https://www.distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=estrellaroja
17:22 < JJBby> ohhhh i see now
17:23 < JJBby> Manjaro is taking over LINUX!
17:23 < JJBby> oh no!
17:23 < SporkWitch> JJBby: look up TempleOS :)
17:23 < tx> haha
17:23 < triceratux> astra is better. it has vbox 5.2 on the iso. https://ru.archive.ubuntu.com/astra/stable/orel/iso/live/ you wont find it on distrowatch
17:23 < tx> templeOS, bless that man
17:23 < tx> and his dedication.
17:23 < SporkWitch> tx: >:)
17:24 < tx> a shame the OS's irc channel is on efnet
17:24 < JJBby> SporkWitch, im sold on temple.
17:24 < SporkWitch> hehe
17:24 < triceratux> JJBby: in a short time manjaro will be more popular than mint on dw
17:26 < JJBby> whats a debian distro thats easy to change DEs on? I have only really switched around on arch
17:26 < tx> I refuse to use a distro that sounds like a cocktail
17:26 < tx> JJBby: debian
17:26 < SporkWitch> JJBby: debian itself; the downstream stuff tends to bundle a given DE, _maybe_ two
17:27 < P_B> I swear I'd never heard of manjaro a week ago. Now it's in every search result I get.
17:27 < JJBby> Maybe i just wait for the new LTS Ubuntu
17:28 < azarus> P_B: maybe use a search engine that doesn't track your searches?
17:28 < triceratux> arch has been ubuntued by manjaro. its their own fault for not shipping a livecd with an ordinary installer
17:29 < P_B> yeah, that's not a bad point, azarus
17:29 < tx> arch isn't for livecd people
17:29 < tx> it's for hipsters
17:29 < JJBby> ON A DIFFERENT NOTE: Are there notoriously good laptops for running Linux on, meaning hardware fully supported and no real issues out of the box? I think Dell XPS? I still need to have a windows dual booted.
17:30 < tx> JJBby: Ubuntu maintains a catalog of things like this
17:30 < tx> Ubuntu certification and whatnot
17:30 < JJBby> tx, oh, good to know!
17:30 < triceratux> JJBby: xps is supposed to be great. latitudes are cheaper. mines still dualbooting win7 in case in need it but ive had no issues with linux on it
17:30 < tx> You're generally going to be in a good way unless it's super new with regards to chipset etc.
17:31 < tx>  / platform
17:31 < dgurney> thinkpads are also good for linux
17:32 < tx> well
17:32 < azarus> Thinkpads are great for just about any opensource OS
17:32 < azarus> Which is neat
17:32 < tx> except the ones that instantly bricked
17:32 < tx> but other than that
17:33 < JJBby> I am running an ASUS ROG that I cant get the headphone/mic ports to even be found as hardware, yes there are forums and fixes but after awhile it just istn worth it. Other issues has been bluetooth with linux which i have seen is a known thing as well as sleep or hibernate
17:33 < tx> (there was a UEFI / BIOS issue that was resolved with a BIOS update on... the T4/55x and X25x series iirc)
17:33 < tx> Would require an RMA to get it working again, was pretty crazy.
17:34 < dgurney> I have to say this X220 was one of the best purchases I've ever made
17:34 < azarus> X230 for me ;)
17:34 < azarus> Corebooted!
17:34 < dgurney> so is mine
17:35 < azarus> I also have a X200 I don't use anymore
17:35 < azarus> It's librebooted
17:35 < azarus> I like my X230 more tough
17:35 < dgurney> neat
17:36 < azarus> I like Coreboot because it doesn't have whitelists, allowing me to add any hardware that fits specifications
17:36 < azarus> and a sane payload ;)
17:37 < dgurney> I nearly bought a X200 for librebooting yesterday, but then realized that after the initial buzz, that machine would just gather dust
17:37 < JJBby> what are a lot of you using linux for? I am switching careers into computer science programming and linux seems to fit more.
17:37 < JJBby> for me
17:37 < dgurney> general computing
17:37 < azarus> I personally use Linux because ZFS and battery life
17:38 < JJBby> azarus, zfs?
17:38 < azarus> JJBby: yes
17:38 < JJBby> azarus, which is? ill google
17:38 < azarus> a filesystem
17:38 < saptech> it's my main OS
17:39 < elmomani> hello, I have a user which can run all commands (sudoer), I deleted it from wheel group and there is no sudo group in /etc/group ,but user still have all permissions .Any suggestions ?
17:39 < JJBby> azarus, are you a data hoarder?
17:39 < azarus> JJBby: not really
17:39 < hanetzer> JJBby: I am :>
17:39 < dgurney> gotta love accidental middle clicks in hexchat
17:39 < JJBby> hanetzer, what have you got going that makes you happy youre hoarding?
17:40 < hexnewbie> Google sayeth deleting is a sin. And so I hoard.
17:40 < JJBby> hexnewbie, haha, keep all the data
17:40 < azarus> I even use ZFS on my laptop (although in a LUKS container)
17:40 < alphor> is there a channel for xrandr related stuff?
17:41 < JJBby> this is the worst part about talking linux/computers, theres still so much shit that i have no idea even what it is let alone how to use it.
17:41 < JJBby> in fact i would struggle to say i know how to properly use the things i do use
17:42 < alphor> JJBby: no one's expecting you to know it all.
17:42 < dgurney> on my laptop i use f2fs for / (unencrypted), and nilfs2 for /home (luks encrypted)
17:42 < JJBby> alphor, false, i expect myself too! its a character flaw.
17:42 < alphor> ah, that'll do it
17:42 < azarus> I do like XFS and ext4 too, haven't given F2FS a good try :/
17:43 < absurdistani> JJBby: im the same way much of the time, but you just need to know enough to figure out the stuff you don't know rather expeditiously
17:43 < hanetzer> JJBby: vendor bsp/sdk, datasheets, all fun stuff :)
17:43 < JJBby> whats anyones thoughts on the System76 laptops?
17:43 < s10gopal> how to learn these type of commands ?
17:43 < s10gopal> grep . /sys/class/power_supply/*/*
17:43 < s10gopal> i know about grep , but not other part
17:44 < JJBby> grep, i am still learning grep. the name i like. My cli just needs to get better. I like working around in it
17:44 < absurdistani> JJBby: I have never been satisfied with any laptop since the ThinkPad started to look like a crappy HP
17:44 < absurdistani> also, egrep > grep
17:44 < hexnewbie> s10gopal: /sys is where Linux (the kernel) exposes the device tree, in /sys/devices as the main hierarchy, and in the other directories as more useful groupings.
17:45 < azarus> absurdistani: egrep is not standard
17:45 < azarus> grep -e is standard
17:45 < absurdistani> azarus: nothing is standard
17:45 < azarus> absurdistani: yes it is
17:45 < elmomani> hello, I have a user which can run all commands (sudoer), I deleted it from wheel group and there is no sudo group in /etc/group ,but user still have all permissions .Any suggestions ?
17:45 < hexnewbie> s10gopal: So anything you want to know about your hardware or virtual kernel devices, will be in /sys. I don't believe it's documented, but part of it is self-explanatory
17:45 < prussian> doesn't even matter. grep and grep -E are both the same engine, just different escapes
17:45 < azarus> absurdistani: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/grep.html
17:45 < azarus> obey POSIX
17:46 < absurdistani> azarus: sure, when ANY linux or GNU tool starts to conform that'd be great
17:46 < hexnewbie> s10gopal: Parts of it may be documented in /usr/src/linux/Documentation (also available online somewhere)
17:46 < s10gopal> hexnewbie: ty
17:47 < triceratux> elmomani: wheel group wont affect that. you have to visudo yer sudoers
17:47 < s10gopal> hexnewbie: how to learned these type of things , and how you remember them ?
17:48 < JJBby> to learn Documentation do you just sit up reading it at night with no real goal? Its such a slog to discern pertinent info of documentation of man pages
17:48 < s10gopal> how you
17:48 < absurdistani> s10gopal: just do it enough and you'll remember
17:49 < hexnewbie> s10gopal: Gradually, and on-demand. :)
17:49 < s10gopal> and most of the users on this channel are students right ?
17:49 < azarus> not a student, an apprentice
17:50 < hexnewbie> s10gopal: When you need to use /sys once or twice (in my case I needed to script something to extract information from there, so it was more extensive use), it suddenly starts becoming intuitive
17:50 < hexnewbie> s10gopal: Like, you start to expect something to be there, and you look for it
17:51 < phogg> I assume most of the people in here are greybeards. Who else uses IRC?
17:51 < s10gopal> hexnewbie: what things you are learning in your college ?
17:51 < tx> Jim from HR.
17:51 < hexnewbie> phogg: Gandalf, reportedly.
17:51 < ccqwtxt> phogg some no-beards as well
17:52 < phogg> hexnewbie: gandalf is the quintessential greybeard
17:52 < azarus> I don't have a beard. But dark rings under my eyes permanently and messy hair.
17:52 < hexnewbie> phogg: Was
17:52 < ccqwtxt> RIP
17:52 < JJBby> phogg, isnt IRC having an upswing in use?
17:53 < s10gopal> i am 20 year old and i only know little bit of c,c++,sql and linux,R , my carrier is finished ?
17:53 < phogg> JJBby: In absolute numbers probably. There are always more people now than before.
17:53 < tx> you're like one of those people who lists 1000 languages on their resume
17:53 < tx> instant binner
17:54 < azarus> I know hello world in 25 languages. Hire me! :)
17:54 < SporkWitch> all i can think of when it comes to all these new people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVO8sUrs-Pw
17:54 < phogg> tx: my company requires that I give them a copy of my resume which lists absolutely everything I know anything about. True story. My real resume is one page.
17:54 < SporkWitch> BUT SEPTEMBER WON"T END >_<
17:56 < revel> azarus: How do you say it in Farsi?
17:56 < JJBby> SporkWitch, what constitutes new to you? Been using IRC to set up Unreal tournments and Counter Strike scrims for a long time. Mostly pigeonholed it for just that though
17:56 < helokki> what do kids use for chatting these days? Is that discord thing any good?
17:56 < azarus> revel: سلام دنیا!
17:57 < tx> They use vape clouds
17:57 < s10gopal> WhatsApp
17:57 < SporkWitch> helokki: discord actually is pretty good.  It's better than vent and TS, and the chat is pretty IRC-like.  I recommend it for anyone that doesn't need the granular permissions and added features of Mumble
17:57 < JJBby> helokki, i would have to say I am impressed with the Discord service.
17:58 < helokki> hmm should look into it then
17:58 < SporkWitch> helokki: the permissions system is REALLY bad, though.  Not as bad as TS3 or Vent, but still bad.
17:58 < tx> We switched out local club over from TS to discord
17:58 < tx> not everyone was a fan so we still run TS :(
17:58 < tx> our*
17:58 < tx> TS has pretty good permissions. At least TS3.
17:58 < JJBby> That discord can be run in a browser is pretty nice.
17:58 < JJBby> feature
18:00 < SporkWitch> handy, but non-desirable: no PTT when run in a browser.  The mobile app is surprisingly decent, though.  MUCH better than the one teamspeak expects you to PAY for
18:00 < tx> on iOS at least
18:00 < tx> but I am guessing the iOS one at least works some of the time
18:00 < tx> the android one..
18:00 < JJBby> SporkWitch, Disc will be pay but thats the business model to get users, be free before charging!
18:01 < tx> Is free (last I used it), but crashes every couple of push to talks :)
18:01 < SporkWitch> JJBby: they seem to be doing quite well with their nitro thing, i don't see them benefiting from switching to a pay-only model.
18:02 < SporkWitch> tx: i've never had such an issue with the android application, and I use it fairly regularly when i'm not at a computer (i'm an admin on a partner server with over 5k people)
18:02 < tx> could just be me then :)
18:02 < tx> I don't think Discord are making a profit just yet
18:03 < JJBby> Looked at that Nitro plan and seems like a good way to support good products. I just hate that everything is turning into subscriptions instead of pay once.
18:03 < tx> definitely still in the investor money munching phase
18:03 < tx> https://support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us/articles/210544537-How-is-Discord-making-money-How-can-I-contribute-
18:03 < SporkWitch> dunno, but at least from what i've seen a fair few are buying into that nitro thing; people really like their animated emojis lol
18:03 < azarus> And that's why IRC is good. None of that nonsense
18:03 < azarus> Just good old text.
18:03 < SporkWitch> JJBby: it's logical that any hosted service be subscription-based; the costs are ongoing.
18:04 < SporkWitch> I actually havethe opposite problem with most games these days: i'd _rather_ pay a subscription than have all the microtransactions they do.
18:04 < alphor> azarus: emojis (and the ability to react to messages) have a lot of utility
18:04 < SporkWitch> alphor: maybe, but they're never used in a useful way.  It's mostly just kids spamming
18:05 < alphor> SporkWitch: ah sure. only have experience with Slack in a legitimate workspace
18:05 < alphor> (err, work)
18:05 < JJBby> SporkWitch, you make a good point with ongoing costs and pointed to microtransactions which is probably more of the problem.
18:05 < SporkWitch> amusingly, we actually use discord at work lol
18:06 < tx> kids are a great way to load test anyway
18:06 < SporkWitch> i'm not fond of slack's need to make separate accounts for each "server"; too much of an inconvenience and adds yet more accounts i have to worry about compromises on
18:06 < tx> easy to test out a platform on a demographic less likely to be outraged by something not working properly
18:07 < ccqwtxt> SporkWitch, yes, that's really annoying; keeping up with a ton of Slack accounts
18:07 < SporkWitch> now if only atlassian would offer a hipchat server license in the same form as their other server licenses, instead of subscription >_<
18:07 < tx> ugh
18:07 < tx> Atlassian.
18:07 < SporkWitch> we use salesforce at my job; i'd KILL to be back on jira
18:08 < tx> heh
18:08 < SporkWitch> i really like the atlassian products, i just wish they'd port them to a real language instead of using these resource-hungry java containers
18:08 < SporkWitch> i have no doubt that i could cut my hosting costs in half if they ported to C or something else sane
18:09 < tx> meet them half-way
18:09 < tx> Golang.
18:10 < m1n> tx: I didn't really see anything wrong in the logs, though I didn't look around too much. Also, I made a fedora usb and it also did not recognize the logs. Nothing is blacklisted … It would be very strange if the SSD failed—although it's not impossibru. Any ideas? ._.
18:10 < m1n> s/reconize the logs/reconise the drives/
18:11 < tx> Try "fdisk -l" as root
18:13 < m1n> tx: yeah it picks up /dev/sda (the live usb) /dev/loop0 /dev/loop1 /dev/loop2 and /dev/mapper/live-rw and /dev/mapper/live-base (assume live usb for fedora)
18:14 < m1n> but no /dev/nvm0n1 as before
18:14 < tx> does it come up on lspci ?
18:14 < funyun> hi. i have set a command to run on startup a long time ago. now i need to change a character in that command but i have no idea how i set it up or where the startup command is located. any ideas where it might be?
18:15 < brian|lfs> Disk /dev/md0: 18.2 TiB, 20001391116288 bytes, 39065217024 sectors
18:15 < brian|lfs> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
18:15 < brian|lfs> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
18:15 < brian|lfs> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 524288 bytes / 1048576 bytes
18:15 < brian|lfs> shit I"m running out of space lol
18:15 < SporkWitch> pastebin is your friend
18:15 < brian|lfs> ya I know was just being a dork sorry
18:15 < tx> u doofus
18:15 < JJBby> SporkWitch, youre set to away and I was hoping to ask you about what you do for work?
18:15 < hanetzer> tx: where's rx?
18:15 < AndroidKitKat> funyun: maybe check your bashrc?
18:16 < tx> hanetzer: he got lost in the the punchline 8 years ago
18:16 < m1n> tx: I think so; I see a graphics and a xeon processor and a bunch of controllers
18:16 < AndroidKitKat> or your autoexec.bat
18:16 < SporkWitch> it has me away? O.o i'll have to take a look at the bouncer, it should only have me away if i disconnect all my clients.
18:16 < SporkWitch> JJBby: i work for a voice over IP provider
18:16 < funyun> AndroidKitKat: nope. not there
18:17 < ghulan> i wamma get my anti hos on.
18:17 < tx> m1n: is the nvme module loaded?
18:17 < tx> lsmod | grep nvm
18:17 < SporkWitch> AndroidKitKat: did you seriously just say to check autoexec.bat in ##linux? O.o
18:17 < JJBby> SporkWitch, whats your role, programming, HR?
18:17 < azarus> DOS lyf
18:17 < m1n> nope
18:17 < AndroidKitKat> SporkWitch:
18:17 < AndroidKitKat> yep
18:17 < SporkWitch> JJBby: technical support
18:17 < tx> modprobe nvme
18:17 < AndroidKitKat> maybe he has the wrong command.com
18:18 < azarus> DOS is fantastic! ... for updating BIOSes
18:18 < AndroidKitKat> I wish there was a modern version of DOS
18:18 < tx> azarus: uefi /efi shells are better for it now
18:18 < tx> ;)
18:18 < m1n> ok; tx it still does't show up in lspci
18:18 < m1n> I mean fdisk -l
18:18 < danie1dg> AndroidKitKat: efi shell is basically dos
18:18 < tx> m1n: check dmesg now
18:18 < azarus> Don't let me get started on the efi abomination
18:18 < tx> after loading nvme
18:19 < ghulan> is say i wamma get my anti hos on.
18:19 < hanetzer> bah. efi is perfectly fine as a spec. implementations tend to suck, however.
18:19 < tx> especially 32-bit efi on 64-bit platforms
18:19 < hanetzer> aye.
18:20 < tx> satan's uefi.
18:20 < m1n> “found 1 remapped nvme devices \n switch your bios from raid to ahci mode to use them”  my bios is broken. I cannot access it b/c of this **** "replacement" laptop
18:20 < m1n> + ACPI errors (battery?)
18:21 < m1n> I don't see any errors regarding nvm after loading module
18:21 < tx> m1n: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=204629
18:22 < tx> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1575676#p1575676 specifically
18:22 < MrElendig> hanetzer: the spec is pretty horrid too
18:22 < m1n> if I could get into mf bios, all my issues would be resolved
18:23 < tx> why can't you
18:23 < MrElendig> hanetzer: eg that it mandates rtc to be in localtime
18:23 < hanetzer> MrElendig: wat
18:23 < MrElendig> microsoft made sure that got into the spec
18:23 < MrElendig> and it makes no sense whatsoever since it also mandates that the utc offset should be stored
18:23 < hanetzer> its prolly not in the efi/uefi spec. just the 'certified for windows' bull
18:24 < MrElendig> it is in the uefi spec
18:24 < P_B> I do not understand why a 100-250MB partition is called for to do what could be done in a kilobyte beforehand. I understand the need for GPT, but the way the industry has gone about it makes me really sad
18:24 < lukey_> m1n: Try booting with an win8/win10 disk/stick -> repair options -> UEFI Setup
18:24 < MrElendig> you have to remember that it was mainly intel and microsoft that wrote the spec
18:24 < tx> lukey_: nice idea
18:24 < hanetzer> citation needed
18:24 < MrElendig> that's like having napoleon and stalin getting together to write a spec
18:24 < m1n> lukey_: that's probably what's broken. I get lots of colourful bars that block my view
18:24 < hanetzer> hehe
18:24 < m1n> if I get into bios I can see about 1/6 of my screen
18:24 < m1n> (in secure boot)
18:25 < lukey_> ummm ok
18:25 < ghulan> Except Napoleon has the source while Stalin innovates it.
18:25 < P_B> this is already the replacement machine, lukey_? Take a photo and RMA it...
18:25 < tx> m1n: plug in external monito
18:25 < m1n> I don't have one on meh
18:27 < m1n> tx this laptop has no hdmi ports. only usb, charging and "f" (not quite micro usb but something maybe for cameras) and headphone jack
18:27 < tx> rip
18:27 < Urchin> Stalin the compiler?
18:27 < ghulan> OOP.
18:28 < tx> m1n: https://www.dell.com/support/article/au/en/aubsd1/sln143038/access-uefi-bios-system-setup-from-windows-on-your-dell-system?lang=en
18:28 < tx> from windows
18:28 < m1n> I removed windows faster than a spooked cheetah
18:29 < m1n> but thanks I'll try a win10 iso
18:30 < AndroidKitKat> m1n: it might be firewire
18:30 < m1n> can I write win10 iso with `dd`? ._.
18:30 < m1n> AndroidKitKat: ah probably!
18:30 < MrElendig> m1n: cp
18:31 < MrElendig> asuming the target is uefi capable
18:31 < hanetzer> MrElendig: nah. don't think that works with their isos
18:31 < AndroidKitKat> i use etcher but i dont think that can make win10
18:31 < m1n> MrElendig: pardon?
18:31 < MrElendig> hanetzer: it does
18:31 < tx> dd will work
18:31 < tx> if you havent got an ancient pc
18:31 < MrElendig> you can simply cp the content of the iso to a usb stick and boot it
18:31 < hanetzer> huh. TIL. must be a fairly new development :)
18:31 < tx> you can do that too
18:31 < tx> but dd is easy if you are lazy
18:31 < MrElendig> worked since win8 atleast
18:32 < MrElendig> there is even a guide for it on tech net
18:32 < hanetzer> MrElendig: oh, you mean cp /mnt/win10 /mnt/usb, not cp win10.iso /dev/usb
18:32 < hanetzer> yeah that works. fat32 and good :)
18:33 < hanetzer> erm, cp -r /mnt/win10/* /mnt/usb
18:35 < ghulan> Slipped my mind.
18:36 < P_B> fwiw, I never managed to get it booting with just a normal copy. It mightve been the options I had my uefi/bios set to, but I could only boot windows 10 off of USB media copied with dd
18:36 < P_B> same for 7
18:39 < ghulan> P_B, http://unrepublic.com
18:40 < paddy|> bogus?
18:41 < ghulan> paddy|, Grab Bionic Beaver.  Last a couple of years for needs.
18:42 < paddy|> ghulan: you mean that ubuntu thing?
18:42 < ghulan> The "Bionic" thing.
18:42 < ghulan> Or "Beaver."
18:42 < pnbeast> Hey, this is a family channel!
18:44 < CoolerZ> if you redirect something into a program like this   ./program < foo/bar.baz
18:44 < CoolerZ> then can you not use the console to give input to the program anymore?
18:44 < CoolerZ> i want to give the input from a file to the program for the fread on the first line in the program
18:45 < CoolerZ> and then the rest of the program needs to allow user input from the console
18:45 < Sitri> CoolerZ: correct, however you can do: cat foo/bar.baz - | ./program
18:45 < paddy|> CoolerZ: put it in a loop ... until EOF
18:46 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: With < you're redirecting the input, so it's no longer the terminal. Consider writing your program in a different way if it is your program?
18:46 < Sitri> The - is important
18:47 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: Some programs explicitly find the terminal and read directly for it, but that's for special cases (e.g. reading the password)
18:47 < hexnewbie> s/for/from/
18:47 < Sitri> Examples of those: ssh and sudo
18:47 < MrElendig> CoolerZ: just have the program read the file itself
18:48 < MrElendig> ./program (-f) somefile
18:48 < CoolerZ> hexnewbie, its not really my program
18:48 < tx> it's our program
18:48 < tx> new communistware
18:49 < CoolerZ> 	size_t count = fread(param, 1, 1024, stdin);
18:49 < CoolerZ> thats the line that requires a file input
18:49 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: Hm, if you could specify what program and why you want to read the first line from a file, we may be able to offer saner alternatives (cat works, but creates buffering issues)
18:49 < CoolerZ> the rest of the program is supposed to use normal scanf to read from the console
18:49 < MrElendig> CoolerZ: that looks rather bad
18:50 < MrElendig> anyway, just give it the file to read as an argument instead of reading from stdin?
18:50 < CoolerZ> Sitri,  cat foo/bar.baz - | ./program did not work
18:51 < Sitri> In what way?
18:51 < m1n> tx, ok but each person can only own his or her respective percentage of bytes (ie, (total bytes) / (total population in the world))
18:51 < CoolerZ> it asked for the param and shows a blinking cursor
18:51 < Sitri> And you tried giving it input?
18:52 < tx> so it's interactively asking for input?
18:52 < CoolerZ> MrElendig, i can't change the code
18:52 < MrElendig> you have the source so you can
18:53 < Sitri> I think this might be a CTF challenge
18:53 < CoolerZ> MrElendig, uh yes i have the source but that doesn't me i am allowed to change it
18:53 < CoolerZ> mean*
18:53 < tx> why not
18:53 < Sitri> In which case, you get the source, but you can't recompile.
18:53 < tx> ah
18:53 < tx> righto.
18:53 < MrElendig> CoolerZ: horrible "open source" license?
18:53 < CoolerZ> MrElendig, no its more like what Sitri said
18:54 < MrElendig> why can't you recompile?
18:54 < Sitri> <Sitri> And you tried giving it input?
18:54 < Sitri> CoolerZ: ^
18:54 < Sitri> Because `cat file - | tr a-z A-Z` works for me
18:54 < CoolerZ> heres the source https://paste.pound-python.org/show/iSwUrY7L7O7xxZHp29CU/
18:54 < CoolerZ> line 27 does the fread
18:55 < CoolerZ> Sitri, yeah i can give it input manually but the input required is in a special format and contains a lot of stuff
18:55 < linelevel> Hello! I'm running Oreo, and I'm trying to put a file into a subdirectory of /data/media/0/ -- I can push the file to /data/media/, but if I try to push it to /data/media/0/ (or any subdir), I get "remote couldn't create file: No such file or directory". I get a similar error from `mv` if I try to move the file into that dir using `adb shell`.
18:55 < linelevel> Any suggestions?
18:55 < CoolerZ> its already given neatly in a file, i just need to pipe it in
18:56 < CoolerZ> only for that fread tho
18:56 < CoolerZ> the rest is supposed to be manual
18:57 < Sitri> Okay, but when you do the `cat file - | ./program` thing, you said "it doesn't work" and I asked "did you give it input?"  I meant did you give cat input.  Like type something in and hit enter.  I'm still unclear on wether or not you tried that.
18:58 < CoolerZ> Sitri, yes i did type something and hit enter
18:58 < Sitri> And?
18:58 < CoolerZ> but it requires an EOF character to stop the fread
18:58 < CoolerZ> or 1024 characters
18:59 < Sitri> Ah!
18:59 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: You may consider using fgets
19:00 < Sitri> Okay, so you need to pad the input
19:00 < m1n> why not  ./program | cat file -
19:00 < danieldg> or just type EOF (control-D)
19:00 < Sitri> danieldg: stdin doesn't get reopened
19:00 < CoolerZ> hexnewbie, no that involves changing the code
19:01 < danieldg> Sitri: that doesn't close stdin
19:01 < danieldg> just returns EOF once
19:01 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: How is that a bad idea?
19:01 < CoolerZ> hexnewbie, i think you missed some messages, i can't change the code
19:01 < CoolerZ> Sitri, is there a way to force an EOF condition instead of padding the input?
19:02 < Sitri> No.  EOF will close the file handle
19:02 < danieldg> Sitri: no it won't
19:02 < danieldg> unless your code actually does that
19:03 < CoolerZ> danieldg, i don't see a fclose in there
19:05 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: Ctrl+D (on a new line) sends an EOF, try and see what happens
19:07 < CoolerZ> hexnewbie, oh i think that closes the file handle
19:07 < CoolerZ> it just skipped all the scanf s
19:08 < CoolerZ> and terminated
19:08 < hexnewbie> CoolerZ: That was well expected. So use bash to pad it, and/or build a file to provide as input
19:09 < CoolerZ> hexnewbie, yeah i think padding
19:09 < CoolerZ> is probably the way to go
19:10 < Sitri> CoolerZ: Is this a hacking challenge?
19:10 < rocktop> may I know how this hacker insert authorized_keys to this accounts:  https://bpaste.net/show/37933c75089f
19:10 < CoolerZ> its more of a fixing challenge
19:10 < Sitri> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhixgUqwRTjxglIswKp9mpkfPNfHkzyeN <-- if so I strongly recommend checking this out
19:10 < Sitri> Ah, still check the above out, most of the skills are the same.
19:12 < Dagmar> rocktop: They probably used ssh-copy-id and guessed the stupid password you set on the account
19:12 < BCMM> rocktop: i'm really not sure how we're supposed to work it out, from the information you've given us
19:13 < BCMM> there's a lot of different ways to gain access to a system, and the files added won't somehow encode how the system was accessed
19:13 < Dagmar> BCMM: I think mainly he's trying to avoid having to pay someone who actually has information security forensics skills
19:13 < BCMM> so consider what the attack surfaces on the system are
19:13 < BCMM> for example, Dagmar is probably right
19:13 < m1n> hey guys. the win10 bootable usb isn't working
19:14 < Dagmar> m1n: Hey m1n.  have you noticed the channel name?
19:14 < hanetzer> m1n: as in, isn't booting, or isn't able to get you into uefi?
19:14 < m1n> I don't see it in the boot menu thing when I press F12
19:14 < hanetzer> Dagmar: he has reasons, related to linux. possibly a bad UEFI implementatoin.
19:14 < rocktop> BCMM, root password is not changed and all accounts are without /bin/bash
19:14 < hanetzer> m1n: how did you create it?
19:15 < junka> wrong OS mate
19:15 < m1n> dd if=dl.iso of=/dev/yomama bs=4M
19:15 < hanetzer> junka: he knows, you're missing some history.
19:15 < solidfox> m1n: think u meant ld.iso
19:16 < Sitri> ld.so you mean
19:16 < BCMM> m1n: oh, you typically can't just dd a windows 10 install iso to a USB
19:16 < hanetzer> m1n: don' do that. use gdisk to make a single partition on /dev/yomama, mkfs.fat -F 32 /dev/yomama1; mount /dev/yomama1 /mnt, and extract the contents of dl.iso onto /mnt
19:16 < BCMM> m1n: have a look at https://github.com/slacka/WoeUSB
19:16 < m1n> ppl said I could just dd it. ok
19:16 < BCMM> m1n: although if you're definitely doing efi booting, hanetzer's method should work too
19:17 < hanetzer> m1n: and I said not to :P
19:17 < BCMM> m1n: a *lot* of people think that's how USB booting works, but it isn't
19:17 < junka> oh m1n it doesnt work that way
19:17  * m1n lols
19:17 < junka> m1n; here https://github.com/slacka/WoeUSB/
19:17 < BCMM> m1n: some ISO images can be written straight to USB sticks, but that's because they have specific support for it (e.g. debian's hybrid install images)
19:17 < hexnewbie> m1n: Which is why asking in ##linux how to boot Windows is ill-advised. Just dd-ing works for *GNU/Linux* ISOs, because they are hybrid and support ISO/CD booting, and UEFI, and BIOS booting at the same time.
19:18 < m1n> .
19:18 < BCMM> for efi, I *think* just copying the files to a fat32 formatted stick should work (since boot just depends on finding a EFI/ directory on a fat32 partition)
19:18 < hanetzer> it will.
19:19 < P_B> what sort of partition table is it lookingfor though, BCMM? GPT or msdos?
19:19 < BCMM> but to be sure, (or to use legacy bios booting), use woeusb on linux or the Windows USB/DVD Download Tool on linux
19:19 < junka> im lagging
19:19 < junka> pls help
19:19 < BCMM> P_B: huh, i don't actually know, for a USB stick.
19:19 < hanetzer> P_B: think it doesn't matter. gpt is what I use, though.
19:19 < Dagmar> You can dd images straight to a thumbdrive basically no matter what
19:19 < AnrDaemon> BCMM: Soody, I just came to the discussion, what is the original problem?
19:20 < BCMM> motherboard support for UEFI booting a hard disk with an MBR is hit and miss, but for external USB it's usually supported either way
19:20 < Dagmar> Whetehr they're a hubrid iso or not doesn't matter beyond the fact that a non-bootable ISO still isn't going to boot
19:20 < P_B> I ask because I went down this rabbit whole recently myself with a lot of different images generated a lot of different ways, with very varied and inconsistent results.
19:20 < Dagmar> P_B: Rabbit *hole*
19:20 < BCMM> AnrDaemon: m1n tried to put the windows 10 installer on USB from linux, and it didn't boot
19:20 < P_B> indeed
19:20 < hexnewbie> Dagmar: Yeah, but Windows images aren't thumb drive friendly. Which is why m1n shouldn't ask in a channel where the people expect that operating systems will be sane. :)
19:20 < BCMM> AnrDaemon: it transpires he just dd'ed the iso image to the block device
19:21 < Dagmar> hexnewbie: This is true.  It's also true that Windows has a tool specifically for creating UEFI-bootable thumbdrives
19:21 < AnrDaemon> dd if=iso of=/dev/sdb oflag=direct
19:21 < BCMM> hexnewbie: it does *not* work for  *GNU/Linux* ISOs, in general
19:21 < Dagmar> The user should either use that on a WIndows machine, or *buy a copy of Win10 that ships on a thumbdrive like everyone else does*
19:21 < BCMM> hexnewbie: several major distros have hybrid isos
19:21 < AnrDaemon> If it does not boot afterward, ISO is screwed.
19:22 < hanetzer> or you know, just f*ck'n use mkfs and gdisk and be done with it?
19:22 < AnrDaemon> My experieence tells otherwise.
19:22 < BCMM> AnrDaemon: no, ISO images do not, in general, boot if written directly to usb
19:23 < Dagmar> The Windows install DVD isn't of a type one can just reimage to thumbdrive
19:23 < hexnewbie> ’How do I make bootable Windows USB from Linux’ is a recurring theme in here, so far I don't remember anyone succeeding, or anyone knowing how to do it. I did find some doc that seemed promising, let me search for it.
19:23 < m1n> hanetzer: “extract the contents of [the iso]” using mount?
19:23 < BCMM> for legacy bios, motherboard usually don't support the el torito boot spec on USB MSC. for efi, motherboards usually do not support iso9660 on USB MSC
19:23 < hanetzer> m1n: yeah. that or something like cd /mnt; 7z x some.iso
19:24 < AnrDaemon> Love my VE-200 >.>
19:24 < BCMM> hexnewbie: it's actually perfectly straightforwards, but nobody ever does the right thing because there's always a hoard of people telling them to just dd it
19:24 < pnbeast> Sometimes when I'm over at La Casa Grande I order the El Torito, but I pay the next day, let me tell you.
19:24 < Dagmar> So is buying a thumbdrive from Microsoft
19:24 < hanetzer> BCMM: straightforward on uefi. no idea about bios
19:24 < Spawndemonic> I have the Intel wireless 7265. Its sending packets but not recieving so I downloaded the ucode and moved to firmware but I havent seen any difference. What could I do to resolve? Not sure what I ddlid wrong
19:24 < Dagmar> ...which is also less likely to be piracy
19:24 < BCMM> hanetzer: basically, just use woeusb
19:24 < hanetzer> Dagmar: yeah, because giving them money is a good idea
19:24 < hanetzer> eh
19:24 < m1n> hanetzer: I don't have 7z what is that
19:24 < Dagmar> hanetzer: If it's not worth paying for, then it's not worth using
19:25 < BCMM> Dagmar: oh can you just shut up about the piracy thing? microsoft explicitly supports buying a key from them and downloading the iso
19:25 < junka> hexnewbie; i have done everything. woeusb works like a charm and painlessly
19:25 < hexnewbie> BCMM: Ah, it seems WoeUSB that you have recommended to m1n do what was recommended in the guide that I find back then.
19:25 < Dagmar> BCMM: THey also have a tool that creates an ISO properly
19:25 < pnbeast> Piracy?  Men with eye patches and cutlasses jump on the side of your ship and climb up to get you?
19:25 < revel> Yes.
19:25 < P_B> The tool runs on windows.
19:25 < Dagmar> BCMM: ...as well as _writes a UEFI-bootable image directly to a thumbdrive_
19:25 < Pentode> arr!
19:25 < hanetzer> ON WINDOWS
19:26 < BCMM> P_B:  inb4 somebody suggests running something that needs raw disk access through WINE
19:26 < Dan39> is there easy/well supported way to boot OS on other drive (USB stick in my instance) in something like qemu(using libvirt/virt-manager atm)? like i have a usb stick with fedora installed on to it (not live iso image, actually installed), can i boot that up virtualized? container or kvm...?
19:26 < hanetzer> Dagmar: you have no context as to why m1n is even doing this, and its not to get or use or keep windows
19:26 < hexnewbie> Pirates don't go around whizzing ‘arrr’ or wearing eye patches, now that's just racist.
19:26 < sauvin> Seems to me that's exactly what I did, though, when I had a Windows machine and no bootable Linux drive: downloaded an Ubuntu ISO, used the Windows File Manager to drag'n'drop the ISO onto a USB stic, and booted on it.
19:26 < m1n> hanetzer: ah I got it from p7zip
19:26 < hanetzer> m1n: yeah. its a good tool.
19:26 < compdoc> Dan39, I think you can, if I understand you
19:26 < Dagmar> hanetzer: I don't *care* why he's doing it.  Microsoft actualyl has it documented and it won't need dd
19:26 < pnbeast> hexnewbie, it's not racist, it's chronist.
19:26 < Dagmar> Microsoft nonsens is not our problem here
19:27 < m1n> Dagmar: I loooooove windows. I am going to install it and keep using it, and I figured that ##linux would be the perfect place to ask about windows installation ;)
19:27  * pnbeast has irrational fear and hatred of the 1700s.
19:27 < Dan39> compdoc: got any useful articles/howtos? searching for it isn't exactly giving what i want
19:27 < sauvin> Certainly not mine. When I booted on the Ubuntu USB, Windows went byebye.
19:27 < Spawndemonic> I'm just wondering if I need to activate the ucode in some way or its not possible for it to work with linux.
19:28 < noze> rsync question: I can use wildcards on a remote, and they get expanded according to some globbing expansion rules, but what shell's globbing rules are actually used?
19:28 < lukey_> m1n: Are you doing this to get access to the BIOS? Because AFAIK the UEFI-Setup repair Option only sets an Flag in UEFI and reboots (i.e. You'll probably get the same graphical issues)
19:28 < hexnewbie> BCMM: Why not? All you need to do is symlink the USB block device to  ~/.wine/drives/f:: :p (Not sure if the Windows tool will eat it, and WoeUSB sounds good enough)
19:28 < Dagmar> Dan39: You can reserve a specific USB port for a VM and try that way, but it's kind of unpleasant
19:28 < m1n> lukey_: I think I want to install a new bios if that is possible somehow. I hope the bios isn't compromised, but "somethin' ain't raght."
19:29 < SporkWitch> m1n: having trouble figuring out what you're actually trying to do; mind restating the original issue?
19:29 < m1n> but mainly I want to be able to get into bios
19:29 < m1n> and mainly mainly I just want to be able to install linux
19:29 < BCMM> m1n: wait, you're not even trying to install windows?
19:29 < m1n> we've been over this; the main issue is that secure boot uefi is fkd up
19:29 < Dagmar> Try #hardware
19:30 < hexnewbie> m1n: Firmware flasher requires Windows?
19:30 < Dagmar> Or *disable* secure boot
19:30 < m1n> I can't get into bios if I disable secure boot
19:30 < Spawndemonic> Can you reset your bios setting?
19:30 < SporkWitch> m1n: ok, so look up your mobo documentation, disable secure boot and/or switch to legacy boot.  if you CANNOT do this, then you've probably got some weird MSFT-proprietary machine and wasted lots of money
19:30 < Spawndemonic> And try disabling it again?
19:30 < Dagmar> m1n: If you can't get into the BIOS after you've disabled secure boot your motherboard is defective and you need to contact the manufacturer
19:31 < lukey_> m1n: Also https://superuser.com/questions/1017756/create-a-bootable-windows-10-usb-drive-uefi-from-linux/1026699#1026699
19:31 < Dagmar> Or, maybe you just need a hobby
19:31 < SporkWitch> hexnewbie: shouldn't; usually that stuff is either a livedisk or built into the firmware to read from a file
19:31 < Dagmar> m1n: by the way, if you can't get into the BIOS after disabling secure boot, then how did you get into the bios to re-enable secure boot?
19:31 < m1n> I have already been over the story
19:31 < m1n> I didn't buy the laptop; it was "replacement" from "Dell"
19:32 < hexnewbie> SporkWitch: I'm just trying to figure how booting Windows would help the cause
19:32 < Dagmar> So Dell definitely has a support system
19:32 < m1n> but I have original laptop and they never asked for this "replacement" back (hence why it is strange on top of it not owkring)
19:32 < m1n> I am not going to call dell
19:32 < Spawndemonic> m1n try restting you bios settings if you can that would be my first try
19:32 < Dagmar> m1n: by the way, if you can't get into the BIOS after disabling secure boot, then how did you get into the bios to re-enable secure boot?
19:32 < SporkWitch> hexnewbie: booting windows is always more harm than help :P
19:33 < m1n> Dagmar: there is a setting called "Boot Mode Settings" when I press F12 on startup. If I enable ... you know I will record a video and show you all maybe
19:33 < BCMM> m1n: hang on dell screwed up and gave you 2 laptops for the price of one?
19:33 < Dagmar> ...and why can't you use the other, working laptop with Windows on it to make your bootable thumbdrive
19:33 < hexnewbie> SporkWitch: Hm, I've never seen live disk ones, but I've seen MS-DOS, FreeDOS and UEFI shell flashers. All were on older machines, though
19:33 < m1n> BCMM: I don't know if it was really Dell, but I assume so; I was getting a LOT of scam calls from Dell employee impersonators
19:33 < P_B> hexnewbie, the windows install disk has a rescue option that will cause the system to reboot and go into UEFI on next start. You can do this in other OSes too (it's just a single flag set on system shutdown I think) but since secureboot is set, I think he needs windows media to be able to try it. If it still doesn't work then, I guess his options are exhausted. Do I have that about right, m1n?
19:34 < Dagmar> m1n: And nothing you've said tells me that disabling secure boot isnt an option
19:34 < BCMM> m1n: ok well now i'm just confused. you consider it possible that scammers pretending to be dell sent you a free laptop?
19:34 < SporkWitch> P_B: could use a shim
19:34  * pnbeast waits eagerly to get scammed.
19:34 < BCMM> P_B: that actually makes the most sense of anything i've seen so far
19:34 < m1n> BCMM: I don't know what the whole story is, but this laptop is sketchy in many ways
19:34 < lukey_> < m1n> if I get into bios I can see about 1/6 of my screen
19:35 < Dagmar> I'm going to go out on a somewhat thick limb here and suggest he's just making up problems to watch people type stuff for him
19:35 < BCMM> that would make sense if the screen doesn't do any scaling
19:35 < m1n> yes in secure boot, if I press F12 and then press <down> Most of my screen is color bars, but at the top, I can see a little slice of BIOS
19:35 < BCMM> i.e. just letterboxes <native resolution
19:35 < P_B> This is why delegating the standard our hardware all must use to fucking microsoft was a great idea. Thank you, hardware manufacturers.
19:35 < P_B> God I love UEFI...
19:35 < Dagmar> Also, hardware is clearly broken
19:35 < Dagmar> So much not our problem we could open a discount store
19:36 < hexnewbie> m1n: Ah. I remembered now. You *had* Linux working on it?
19:36 < m1n> yesh and then it forgot how to load nvm and it broke
19:36 < hexnewbie> P_B: My first encounter with UEFI is still giving me nightmares :)
19:36 < Spawndemonic> I mean even my driver manager doesnt see my wirless card could really use some help
19:37 < Dagmar> Spawndemonic: What wireless card?
19:37 < m1n> hold on I am going to record a shitake mushroom koality video for you all
19:37 < Dagmar> ...and what's this "driver manager"?
19:37 < m1n> it's too damn bright everywhere in here
19:37 < Spawndemonic> Intel wireless 7265 I have the ucode in my firmware folder but nothings getting picked up
19:37 < Spawndemonic> I can connect but it recieve packets
19:37 < P_B> do you *have* a working windows machine handy, m1n? If so, that's your easiest way to get that USB bootable. I doubt it's going to help, but if that's where you're at...
19:38 < Dagmar> Spawndemonic: What distro are you using?
19:38 < Spawndemonic> Wont recieve packets
19:38 < Spawndemonic> Mint
19:38 < Spawndemonic> But this happens on ubuntu too
19:38 < Dagmar> Spawndemonic: You did enable the installation of proprietary/nonfree drivers, right?
19:38 < BCMM> Spawndemonic: anything interesting in dmesg|grep firmware
19:39 < geheimnisse> doesnt mint have those repos enabled on install since it isnt commercial like ubuntu?
19:39 < Dagmar> It certainly gives you the option right away
19:39 < compdoc> 0
19:40 < Dagmar> Spawndemonic: Apparently there's a slight variation in that chipset.  Grep through your syslog for "Dual Band Wireless AC 7265" and you should find "REV=0x???" at the end.  That revision number matters
19:40 < Spawndemonic> Ok one sec ill check
19:41 < Dagmar> You need a different firmware for the D version of the chipset, which identifies by rev 0x210
19:41 < Dagmar> See also https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/iwlwifi#d_3165_and_3168_support
19:42 < dannylee> :)
19:42 < holyhit> Hi
19:43 < dannylee> hi
19:43 < m1n> hi
19:43 < holyhit> I use openbox and xfce4-terminal as drop-down. But i haven't any panels, taskbar etc. Is there a way to show the drop-down terminal after losses the focus?
19:43 < m1n> P_B: no
19:44 < m1n> but I just 7z'd windows onto a usb
19:44 < P_B> m1n, I did have another thought... Do laptop boards have factory reset jumpers?
19:44 < m1n> xps 13s are pitas to take apart
19:45 < hexnewbie> I am selling this fine steel hammers
19:45 < P_B> if it's broken anyway, what's a little bit of cosmetic damage to the plastic?
19:45 < m1n> hexnewbie: does it come with a sickle?
19:45 < geheimnisse> aye, me hammer needs replacing, hexbewbie
19:46 < Dagmar> If you can't disassemble a laptop without damaging the plastic case you should not be touching a damn thing inside it
19:46 < hexnewbie> m1n: Shht, don't tell anybody ☭
19:46 < P_B> only laptop I ever had to pull apart and put back together was a right pain. I got a gram of weed out of that job though. Worth it at the time.
19:46 < geheimnisse> me hammer needs a sickle
19:46 < Spawndemonic> I grabbed the D version as well I'm sorry its taking long I'm new in linux looking up the code to grep for it
19:46 < P_B> You're a very positive person, Dagmar.
19:46 < m1n> ok I am uploading the video to the vimeo for the you all to do the watching
19:46 < Dagmar> I hate to see an innocent piece of hardware senselessly murdered by moron fingers
19:50 < Dagmar> Spawndemonic: Dude.  `grep "string you're looking for" /path/to/filename/youre/searching.for
19:52 < zenix_2k2> guys i have a weird question, here is the problem --> https://pastebin.com/BzUtEPSH, so is there anyhow i can CLEAR ONLY from the line "<----- to this" or "<----- or this" to "<----- clear from this" ?
19:52 < zenix_2k2> "cls" will clear it all i think
19:53 < wmchris> hello. I have a problem with LVM. After creating a snapshot the newly created snapshot doesn't appear in /dev/MYPOOL/snapshotname. but lvs displays the snapshot.
19:53 < zenix_2k2> and is that just an example
19:53 < Spawndemonic> I'm typing grep " dual bad wireless ac 7265" /vat/log/syslog nothing comes up
19:54 < Dagmar> Spawndemonic: You might try and get the words _and_ capitalization correct, or use -i and at least get the words correct
19:54 < Spawndemonic> But when i just cat the syslog I see it referenced as wlp8s0
19:54 < hexnewbie> zenix_2k2: clear; clear
19:54 < Spawndemonic> I did on my comp I'm on my phone so I'm not typing here verbatim
19:55 < m1n> here we go ( Dagmar hexnewbie P_B lukey_ BCMM Spawndemonic SporkWitch hanetzer ) » make sense of this ßhíþ » https://vimeo.com/263754215
19:55 < Dagmar> It'll be in the dmesg output as well if the machine was booted recently
19:55 < hexnewbie> zenix_2k2: Ah, sorry. Understood the opposite of what you asked
19:55 < lukey_> wmchris: lvchange -ay MYPOOL/snapshotname
19:55 < zenix_2k2> yea, but anyway, clear; clear can be replaced with printf "\033c"
19:56 < BCMM> m1n: that looks a *lot* like your GPU is dead. nvidia?
19:56 < P_B> well yeah. Corruption of something is the obvious answer. Curious it only happens in UEFI, m1n
19:56 < hexnewbie> zenix_2k2: No tool for that, but that can be done ncurses positioning and erasing the lines above.
19:56 < wmchris> lukey_: already tried this, and seems like to be the issue, because lvs lists it as not available, but the command doesn't work :/
19:57 < zenix_2k2> hexnewbie: so how can i get the postition of the line i just have printed ?
19:57 < zenix_2k2> i mean the line "<----- to this" or "<----- or this"
19:57 < m1n> that would explain why  startx  breaks everything
19:58 < m1n> so basically it's got a f'kd up graphics card?
19:58 < P_B> or bus to the card, etc
19:58 < lukey_> m1n: You could still try using it on an external monitor
19:58 < Dagmar> zenix_2k2: `man tput`
19:58 < m1n> but it ran windows fine (graphically) I believe
19:59 < m1n> I think .. that was 3 years ago
19:59 < wmchris> lukey_: lvscan marks it as inactive.
19:59 < Dagmar> zenix_2k2: tput is the tool for pretty much everything cursor-related
19:59 < lukey_> wmchris: HOw did you create the snapshot?
19:59 < SporkWitch> m1n: that would imply a driver issue
19:59 < hexnewbie> m1n: Looks very toast
19:59 < zenix_2k2> welp that is one long manual
19:59 < Dagmar> zenix_2k2: tput does *lots*
20:00 < Spawndemonic> If it matters when lspci it outputs the card as rev 61
20:00 < TJ-> m1n: does this sound similar? https://www.dell.com/community/Inspiron/Bios-corrupted-no-logo-Dell-no-Bios-setup-only-boot/m-p/6046331
20:00 < SporkWitch> m1n: check ACPI settings as well; those graphics issues are common with an overheating GPU
20:00 < wmchris> lukey_:  lvcreate -s -n mysnapshot /dev/vgname/lvname
20:01 < hexnewbie> m1n: Unrelated, did you try your SSD in a different machine? I would, because if it is all right and you can access your GNU/Linux files, it suggests your replacement laptop has different hardware issues
20:01 < lukey_> wmchris: is the lvm on a thinpool?
20:01 < wmchris> lukey_: yes
20:01 < BCMM> m1n: how old is this machine?
20:02 < m1n> SporkWitch: I get many acpi errors and the bios often complains about batter/acpi when booting up
20:02 < m1n> BCMM: 3 years
20:02 < m1n> I get white screen with windows us
20:02 < m1n> b
20:02 < SporkWitch> m1n: do you hear the fans going? if not, that's probably the problem, if windows is working: it's not telling it to run the fans and the GPU is overheating.
20:02 < phinxy> is it the kernel or init system that could cripple the program execution speed if some sensor or something alike is faulty?
20:02 < zenix_2k2> and oh look at that, tput cup 11 0 && tput ed got the problem for me
20:03 < zenix_2k2> nice, does it come with built-in ?
20:03 < m1n> Sigyn (sigyn@freenode/utility-bot/sigyn): Your actions in ##linux tripped automated anti-spam measures (nicks/hilight spam), but were ignored based on your time in channel  (oh because I highlighted so many people)
20:03 < hexnewbie> m1n: Oh, and also, when I said earlier that my first laptop's hard drive died with symptoms similar to yours - er, now I remember it was the laptop, not the hard drive. Overheating had partially unsoldered the chipset, so similar symptoms, can't execute init due to Bus Error, etc.
20:03 < BCMM> m1n: what was happening when you did startx? kernel panic? system hangs?
20:03 < m1n> system hang
20:04 < hanetzer> m1n: stop using \n instead of .
20:04 < hanetzer> m1n: really? or did the gui hang?  try ssh
20:04 < m1n> hanetzer: ? I highlight one person per comment, and I cannot reinstall linux because pcm not recognized
20:04 < m1n> * nvm
20:04 < phinxy> What manages motherboard things like voltage regulators or so?
20:05 < wmchris> lukey_: ah found the issue... thin volumes require -K on creation
20:05 < hexnewbie> m1n: Since your symptoms (firmware included) are really similar, I'd take out the SSD to verify if it is OK. Because it really looks like something else hardware in it has been deteriorating fast.
20:05 < Pentode> seldom, it usually uses buck converters or dc-dc converters
20:05 < Pentode> phinxy, sometimes transistors are used for regulating high current supplies for the processor and certain bus voltages
20:06 < Dagmar> Anyone surprised Dell didn't want the hardware back?
20:06 < lukey_> Dagmar: If tis broken anyways...
20:06 < SporkWitch> m1n: you're using newlines instead of punctuation, and you were spamming those messages fast enough to get autokicked.  This is not twitter, it is not some cancerous stream chat room, it is IRC: take the time to complete your thought in a single message, it makes it easier to follow, especially when there's multiple people talking
20:06 < m1n> the maintenence crew probably finagled windows on there and said f this and shipped it to me as a "replacement"
20:07 < m1n> SporkWitch: incorrect
20:07 < SporkWitch> m1n: yes, you are incorrect to be using newlines instead of punctuation.
20:07 < TJ-> m1n: can it boot a Linux UEFI USB 'server' (no GUI) image? (put GRUB files from /EFI/<distro>/* in the EFI-SP under /EFI/BOOT/ and rename shimx64.efi to BOOTX64.EFI ) so it can boot as removable media
20:08 < m1n> TJ-: I can boot a usb and in fact fedora actually boots up a graphical usb iso just fine
20:08 < P_B> oh that is weird.
20:08 < hexnewbie> m1n: Does it see the SSD?
20:08 < m1n> currently, I was trying to fix the UEFI or BIOS or what-have-you; then, I was going to try to get it to recognize the nvm ssd
20:08 < Spawndemonic> Dagmar I did dmesg | grep iwl and it show rev =0x210 does this gel?
20:08 < m1n> It does not currently see the nvm0n* ssd hexnewbie no
20:09 < TJ-> m1n: is Fedora installed in UEFI boot mode?
20:09 < m1n> but nvm module was also not loaded for some reason.. yes in UEFI boot mode
20:09 < TJ-> m1n: OK, so you should be able read all the UEFI variables then
20:09 < m1n> yeah I did; seemed ok
20:10 < m1n> I don't know where all my usbs went, so I have to keep re-creating USBs
20:10 < TJ-> m1n: can efibootmgr add an entry to the boot menu?
20:10 < m1n> TJ-: I *did* do that until system hang then force reboot then systemd/linux didn't load then all hell broke loose
20:10 < m1n> in fact "Linux Boot Manager" Showed up in my boot menu
20:10 < TJ-> m1n: what distro/version were you using when that happened?
20:11 < m1n> arch.
20:11 < m1n> It honestly *could* have been my fault, but I tried  my best to follow all steps and install all necessary drivers
20:12 < m1n> at this point I would be happy with a solid fedora install, though I have used arch me whole life
20:13 < TJ-> m1n: I'm wondering if you've hit 2 problems here that are confusing the diagnosis. I agree with others that over-heating could be responsible for the craxy graphics in the UEFI setup menus. I'm also wondering if this could have happened due to the UEFI variables being corrupted which has caused POST-time fan control to be broken... we know of several UEFI systems where repeatedly writing to the NVRAM can
20:13 < TJ-> eventually cause it to corrupt, there were some famous examples a few years ago.
20:14 < m1n> so, if I smack it hard enough, would it fix it?
20:14 < m1n> that's how frustrated I am with it *thwap*
20:15 < m1n> my wifi printer just erroneously received a signal. Not saying it's anything, but this laptop has made me very spooked
20:16 < lukey_> m1n: RMA it or Buy a New one.
20:16 < hexnewbie> m1n: When I struck my first laptop in anger, it seems that the blow temporarily set in the partially unsoldered chipset, and it worked for a while. (NOT an actual recommendation, DON'T do it :) )
20:18 < m1n> lukey_: I mean I have a working laptop with arch on it right now (heyo I'm on it right now), and this "laptop" was "free" (excluding the maintenence and 2 days of maintenence I have put into it). it's not like I need it, but it would be cool to have an ssh-able linux box
20:18 < Spawndemonic> This all the info I could figure out to produce on my card https://pastebin.com/40cTCU8y
20:18 < Spawndemonic> Idk if the Dragmor is here anymore but any hep would be appreciated
20:19 < hanetzer> hexnewbie: percussive maintenance ;)
20:19 < msiism> i'm looking for a simple note taking app for the desktop. what i want is to replace sticky notes with something that works like a spiral notebook. additonal criteria it should meet are: no gtk3 (ever), no dbus dependency, based on flat text files, no database. any recommendations? (maybe it can even be put together from what's there on my system.)
20:19 < mawk> the Dragmor
20:19 < mawk> lol
20:19 < Spawndemonic> idk if it as his name i logged off my phone real quick didn't get the name written down so i can send the pastebin
20:19 < hanetzer> msiism: terminal app of your choice and $EDITOR
20:20 < mawk> Dagmar maybe Spawndemonic ?
20:20 < mawk> what are you trying to do Spawndemonic ?
20:20 < Spawndemonic> just get my wifi card working
20:20 < Spawndemonic>  you know what that sounds right lol
20:20 < m1n> so, is there any hope for me if I don't want to buy a new graphics card? Can I just modprobe nvm and try to install? The nvm drive isn't recognized, though
20:20 < hanetzer> Spawndemonic: what's wrong with your card? everything in that paste looks good
20:21 < hexnewbie> msiism: Maybe easier to find if you dropped the DBus part of the recommendation
20:21 < Spawndemonic> packets are getting sent just being recieved
20:21 < TJ-> m1n: what's the model number of the flakey PC?
20:21 < hexnewbie> requirement, recommendation, does it matter? My chipset has also been unsoldered ;)
20:21 < msiism> hanetzer: ok, i'm just wondering how i'd achieve to be able to flip through (but i recall that vim can open several files, even nano, so...).
20:21 < Spawndemonic> hanetzer: I can even connect to my wifi but just doesn't do anything with it
20:22 < m1n> TJ-: anti-spam measures (nicks/hilight spam), but were ignored based on your time in channel
20:22 < hanetzer> msiism: tmux with a named socket
20:22 < m1n> oops
20:22 < m1n> TJ-: http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/product-support/product/xps-13-9350-laptop/drivers
20:22 < hanetzer> Spawndemonic: huh. wierd.
20:23 < msiism> hanetzer: ok. will look into that. thanks. btw, i don't see why a note taking app should depend on dbus.
20:23 < P_B> sure it isn't just a network configuration issue?
20:24 < lukey_> The Laptop I'm writing this from has a broken GPU, luckily blacklisting the radeon Module is enough to make it work
20:25 < Spawndemonic> hanetzer: Do you have any recommendations?
20:25 < m1n> how can I force linux to recognize the nvm drives during install?
20:25 < Spawndemonic> I got a wifi adapter plugged in to connect but Id prefer not too all the time
20:26 < infinisil> m1n: Linux has had nvme support for a while
20:27 < infinisil> m1n: Gotta be a bit more specific
20:27 < Spawndemonic> Dagmar: https://pastebin.com/40cTCU8y this help you at all?
20:27 < hanetzer> Spawndemonic: no, never ran into your prollem
20:27 < Spawndemonic> ok I appreciate trying
20:27 < TJ-> m1n: have you tried installed the firmware (BIOS) 1.7.0 update using the DOS OS method?
20:28 < m1n> infinisil: when I first installed, it recognized the nvme drives. I actually installed arch onto them. Then I must have gotten some data corruption or something strange due to .. idk .. whatcked up graphics card? Something happened; I tried to reinstall and the nvme drives are not listed in fdisk -l
20:28 < NDx33xsy> Hello. Please, recommend console font)
20:28 < SporkWitch> wingdings
20:28 < m1n> TJ-: what do you mean? I can't even load up windows. How do I update that
20:28 < ananke> comic sans ftw
20:28 < hexnewbie> NDx33xsy: Terminus Bold
20:30 < msiism> NDx33xsy: i'm using DejaVu Sans Mono here. pretty neat.
20:30 < triceratux> NDx33xsy: misc-fixed 8pt
20:30 < infinisil> m1n: Sounds like you fried your machine, not sure though
20:30 < emx> I have this issue that when I connect to the VPN server my internet is also routed through VPN. I found this solution but unfortunately it is based on GUI but I need CLI. Does anyone know what the setting for the OpenVPN server config file?
20:30 < emx> https://superuser.com/questions/741708/use-local-gateway-for-internet-access-but-stil-have-the-vnet-accessable-tun-in
20:30 < emx> (Use this connection only for resources on its network)
20:31 < m1n> *I* didn't fry my machine. It has never overheated. In fact, it's been off for 3 years since I got the colour bars (until yesterday)
20:32 < m1n> It came from "Dell" like that
20:32 < parapadarapa> What's a good featureful os for a 7 year old laptop
20:32 < hexnewbie> m1n: Well, maybe your replacement wasn't new, but refurbished and it was overheating with its previous owner
20:32 < azarus> parapadarapa: any linux you throw at it
20:32 < azarus> you can make it featureful
20:33 < parapadarapa> azarus: fedora was sluggish as hell
20:33 < parapadarapa> same with ubuntu
20:33 < hexnewbie> m1n: Also, they sent you the replacement 3 years ago?
20:33 < m1n> but why would windows graphical stuff work, but then break with xorg
20:33 < parapadarapa> might be gnome3/unity
20:33 < azarus> parapadarapa: go for something lighter then?
20:33 < m1n> hexnewbie: my laptop broke 3 years; the replacement came 3 years ago
20:33 < azarus> alpine linux is what I like, maybe not something for newbies
20:34 < phaedral> parapadarapa: are DamnSmallLinux and PuppyLinux still things? Have you tried either? Like azarus says, you can always beef up a small distro...
20:34 < lukey_> m1n: And this is the replacement?
20:34 < m1n> mhm
20:34 < parapadarapa> azarus: I assumed alpine was just for routers
20:34 < azarus> parapadarapa: absolutely not
20:34 < parapadarapa> phaedral: not really that was my first thought
20:35 < phaedral> looking at the alpine "about" page; looks good from here...
20:35 < phaedral> Although I hate giving up apt..
20:36 < azarus> phaedral: just keep in mind it's far from standard
20:36 < azarus> apk is much better than apt, imo
20:36 < phaedral> azarus: Yeah. I mostly work in mint, 'cause I'm not as good as I wish.
20:36 < infinisil> parapadarapa: Just don't install a DE at all
20:36 < azarus> phaedral: fantastic oppertunity to learn
20:36 < msiism> azarus: in how far is apk better than apt? (just curious)
20:37 < parapadarapa> So for alpine I probably want extended right?
20:38 < m1n> what the hell ...... now when I try to boot fedora live usb, I get the same white screen as the windows usb ._. this laptop .. is ... going into the trash can after I rip out it's freakin ssd
20:38 < phaedral> azarus: How is alpine with "non-free" for wifi and such? That's the real reason I stick to mint, so I don't have to struggle with such...
20:39 < nobrain> azarus: can I have your belongings when you die?
20:39 < m1n> that's a nobrainer
20:39 < TJ-> m1n: create a bootable FreeDOS USB image, copy the Dell BIOS 1.17.0 EXE file you've downloaded onto it. Boot the PCand as long as it boots the USB you'll get a DOS shell. From there you execute the EXE
20:40 < m1n> im gonna try the smack method first
20:41 < luxifer> re... anyone: if I want to use RAID with LVM, what are pros/cons for using device mapper vs. LVM for the actual RAID? Is there any relevant difference at all?
20:41 < phaedral> Looking at the alpine downloads page I'm guessing that's a little out of my depth at present.
20:41 < Dagmar> luxifer: The general recommendation is to let mdadm handle all things which are actually RAID, and let LVM deal with slicing the resulting devices up
20:42 < Pentode> m1n, maybe dell riggs their loners so they can't be used with another os / drive if they arent returned?
20:42 < Dagmar> Dell doesn't do "
20:42 < Dagmar> Dell doesn't do "loaners"
20:42 < luxifer> Dagmar: since I don't have that many disks, there's only gonna be one device for LVM to manage... thought about using that mainly as a way forward in the future
20:42 < parapadarapa> luxifer: about to give it a shot I'll let you know :)
20:42 < lukey_> luxifer: AFAIK Debian won't boot when a PV is missing so...
20:42 < ryouma> will &>word or >&word work in sh?
20:42 < Dagmar> luxifer: You don't really need to do anything in advance for that
20:43 < luxifer> lukey_:  what do you mean?
20:43 < ryouma> or dsh?  what shells are they common in?
20:43 < hexnewbie> ryouma: No, if by sh you mean dash. Non-Debian distros still use bash as sh
20:43 < ryouma> i meant dash, i /think/.  thanks.  what shell does cron use?
20:43 < hexnewbie> ryouma: On Debian/Ubuntu - dash
20:43 < ryouma> ah, so ok back to the old syntax
20:44 < luxifer> Dagmar:  well I can't convert an FS on a raw MD device into an LV later, or can I? ;) So I was thinking about using MDRAID as the sole PV for the VG that'll have a single LV for my storage
20:44 < ryouma> also what is the function of USER in linux?  cron does not supply it.
20:44 < ryouma> but logging in does
20:44 < Dagmar> luxifer: Like, the worst-case scenario when you get a second (or more) disk and could actually switch to a non-trivial RAID level would be an offline filesystem shrink (very small reduction), telling mdadm the other drive is part of a set with the other members missing, and then copying the data from the old drive to the new one (checking it after), and then telling mdadm the old drive is part of the array that needs rebuilding
20:44 < luxifer> oh
20:44 < Dagmar> luxifer: In pretty much all cases you should just be using LVM for everything but a /boot partition now
20:44 < lukey_> luxifer: Well if you do raid on LVM, you have one PV for every disk. When one Disk fails your data is saved by the RAID, but on the next reboot Debian will drop into a rescue shell, becaus it cant find the failed drive wich belongs to the VG
20:45 < luxifer> Dagmar: I'm starting with 5 4TB drives which I'd like to put into RAID6
20:45 < Dagmar> luxifer: ...and if you're using grub, it can handle booting from an LVM lv
20:45 < luxifer> and my biggest concern is replacing these later with larger disks in a way that will grow the device which the FS is on
20:45 < lukey_> luxifer: LVM and mdraid can do that
20:45 < Dagmar> luxifer: THat's still doable if you replace and copy them all at once
20:46 < m1n> I got into bios!
20:46 < TJ-> m1n: smacking worked?
20:46 < luxifer> Dagmar: no copies... I'm looking for a migration path... i.e. replace one after another, resync until all are replaced and then having a larger device which I can grow the existing FS on
20:46 < m1n> heh I just went to the third option and selected  "reset default settings"  .. I guess for the UEFI/BIOS/{something}
20:47 < m1n> it *is* a samsung drive
20:47 < luxifer> lukey_:  so it won't boot with a degraded / incomplete LVM RAID - but would do with a degraded / incomplete MDRAID?
20:47 < m1n> what is UEFI Network Stack
20:47 < TJ-> m1n: so that does sound like it had corrupted UEFI variables then
20:48 < hexnewbie> Software/firmware smacking > Physical hardware smacking
20:48 < Pentode> Dagmar, thought he said earlier they had loaned him the laptop and never asked for it back. i have no idea myself whether they do or don't.
20:48 < lukey_> luxifer: From my experience yes
20:49 < m1n> I must have messed up efivars back when I was a dumb wee lad
20:49 < TJ-> m1n: and you've corrected it by resetting to known good factory defaults
20:49 < TJ-> m1n: network stack is so the system can do network boot or provide remote management via UEFI
20:49 < luxifer> lukey_: thanks. that's exactly the kind of insight I was looking for!
20:50 < TJ-> m1n: I said earlier it was a 'thing' some years ago where repeatedly installing (thus adding UEFI boot menu entries) would cause NVRAM variable corruption
20:50 < TJ-> m1n: I'd ensure you've got that most recent 1.17.0 BIOS/firmware installed as well now
20:50 < m1n> ohhh ok; well lemme try to install again, and thanks everyone for putting up with all this nonsense. I couldn't make sense of it, and it was damn sure hard to explain. But fingers crossed
20:52 < lukey_> luxifer: I'd do LVM on mdraid. And if you're on a single drive now I'd also do LVM on that.
20:54 < lukey_> luxifer: So you can later online-move the LVM from the raw partition/disk to the partitial initialized RAID.
20:54 < luxifer> lukey_:  thanks... so, LVM all the things :-) gonna be raid6 for the 5x4tb as one PV and the SSDs each as one PV, making a single vg of the large pv for storage and having the SSDs to toy around with
20:55 < luxifer> lukey_:  nah... I'll just do it right at install time... my only concern was replacing the disks with larger ones in the future without having to move the data elsewhere
20:56 < lukey_> luxifer: Yep LVM makes many things easier
20:56 < m1n> somehow windows is still on this machine :D it pulled up a windows setup box. I have wiped the drives over 5 times D:
20:56 < luxifer> (y)
20:57 < revel> What's a good way to check if I'm on a specific network? Checking if the gateway device's MAC address is present with ip/arp?
20:58 < Psi-Jack> Ugh.> I hate going through the ceiling to run cabling to add more drops. LOL
20:59 < mawk> that sounds right revel
20:59 < mawk> or check if you've got a DHCP lease, if using dhcp
20:59 < revel> Well, on a *specific* network.
20:59 < mawk> for a static ip you could have nothing in your arp table and still be on the network
21:00 < mawk> ah, indeed
21:00 < mawk> if the network doesn't have a gateway I fear there's no standard way of checking for connectivity
21:03 < TJ-> check for IPv6 RAs
21:04 < revel> TJ-: Right... How?
21:05 < revel> Preferably in a one-shot way.
21:05 < revel> And also preferably fast.
21:06 < revel> I think I'll just stick with my current method since it's quick.
21:10 < TJ-> revel: radvdump
21:10 < revel> TJ-: This is for my Android phone, actually (Termux), and that's not in the repos.
21:12 < TJ-> revel: ah, so not a full GNU/Linux
21:12 < TJ-> revel: there are some useful IPv6 'apps' that can do it too
21:12 < revel> Well, it's got a bunch of GNU utilities, but it's still limited by being Android.
21:13 < revel> TJ-: I want to do it from Termux specifically, so, that's not a good option.
21:13 < dviola> is it a bad idea to swap to a USB flash drive?
21:13 < ghostyy> how can i figure out of a piece of hardware is supported in linux before i buy it?
21:13 < revel> ghostyy: Look it up online.
21:13 < ghostyy> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIADXZ5VV9122 thinking of buying this but i cant find any info online about whether its supported natively in linux (with foss drivers)
21:14 < m1n> after resetting default settings, I still cannot find the nvme drives on installation
21:14 < ghostyy> revel, that is what i tried to do
21:14 < ghostyy> revel, do you know where i should look online to see if its supported?
21:14 < dgurney> ghostyy, try to find out which wireless chip it uses
21:14 < dgurney> then look that up
21:14 < revel> ^
21:15 < m1n> ah .. referring to the link that someone posted earlier about disabling sata operations in bios (now that I can access bios, this should be ez)
21:18 < revel> ghostyy: This suggests it's something by Atheros http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1958889/drivers-wireless-card.html
21:20 < dgurney> https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Atheros_AR5B195
21:20 < dgurney> so it's supported by the ath9k driver
21:20 < revel> ghostyy: ^
21:23 < ghostyy> ahhh i see
21:24 < ghostyy> so that model, the wb-300, has an atheros chipset, does that mean thew 8301 has one too?
21:24 < revel> Oh, wait, that was for the wb-300
21:25 < TJ-> revel: if you can add scripts to tmux session then you can grep /proc (this for IPv6): "grep '^0\{32\}' /proc/net/ipv6_route " 5th column is the gateway address
21:25 < TJ-> s/tmux/termux/
21:26 < revel> Yes, it's for a script.
21:26 < revel> It's basically a mini-distro with apt for package management.
21:27 < TJ-> revel:  you need to ignore any default route for the "lo" interface though.
21:28 < dgurney> ghostyy, i managed to find an old ebay listing for the 8301, and the description there said it has an AR5B22 chip, which is also supported by ath9k
21:28 < dgurney> so you should be fine
21:29 < revel> TJ-: I think `ip neigh | grep ${gateway_ip}` is a bit simpler...
21:30 < m1n> TJ- lukey_ hanetzer I installed fedora, and I am a happy person. After 2 whole days! And just due to corrupted efi variables.
21:30 < m1n> thanks a whole bunches! Now I have a linux box .. laptop but oh well
21:31 < revel> My main box is a laptop :<
21:31 < TJ-> revel: well yes if you've got iproute2 tools!
21:31 < revel> TJ-: And I do!
21:31 < revel> It's got a bunch of stuff, including clang (no gcc though), ffmpeg, uhh, tmux, sshd.
21:31 < revel> s/uhh,//
21:32 < TJ-> revel: of course, if the device isn't accepted RAs this method won't work
21:32  * m1n has never used fedora; so, we'll see how this goes. Does it have openssh by default? What is the package manager? So many questions @_@ anyways, thanks again. Can't explain how relieved I am after all of the silent and vocalized struggles
21:32 < revel> Well, I got one result for wlan0 using that grep.
21:32 < m1n> (remember when I was getting 15 pings every 2 seconds? That was fun.)
21:32 < revel> I've got native IPv6 on the network.
21:32 < ghostyy> dgurney, thank you so much!
21:33 < TJ-> revel: for IPv6? that's good. (IPv4 and IPv6 gateways can be different physical devices)
21:33 < revel> Yep, native ipv6 support.
21:45 < brimonk> Does anyone have any way to render troff formatted text without running it through man? I just want the fancily formatted, curses paging, without the man headings.
21:49 < luxifer> duh... ubuntu... geez! apparently, the ubuntu 18.04 server installer will create a swap file if you don't create a swap partition
21:49 < lukey_> brimonk: what do you men with "man headings" ?
21:49 < dgurney> well, in most cases that's a good thing
21:50 < sauvin> brimonk, troff is a command on my ubuntu system. Looking at the man page now.
21:51 < sauvin> One of the first sentences: should use groff instead. :D
21:54 < lukey_> brimonk: MANWIDTH=80 man man | tail -n +2 > dump if i understad you right?
21:56 < mawk> it's the second time my dedicated server drive crashes
21:56 < mawk> what could I be doing that's causing this ?
21:56 < mawk> I've got an image host, using a journaled BSD DB database
21:56 < mawk> and a handful containers
21:57 < sauvin> mawk, the server is remote?
21:57 < mawk> yes
21:58 < sauvin> How do you access it after it crashes?
21:58 < kaviraj> Hey guys!. any one know how /bin/pager (less command) takes input from user?. I see in /proc/<pid/fd that 3 -> mapped to /dev/tty. I want to send 'Q' from another terminal. Any help?
21:58 < luxifer> sauvin: how's that relevant?
21:58 < mawk> I don't know exactly how it crashed sauvin
21:58 < mawk> it stopped responding to pings
21:58 < mawk> so I called the assistance and they told me this
21:58 < sauvin> That's kinda where I was going, hoping you could get some logs or dmesg or something.
21:58 < mawk> I've put the server in rescue mode and I can investigate the drive now
21:58 < mawk> yeah I've got dmesg access, but nothing in it
21:59 < mawk> same for SMART data, it says "OK"
21:59 < mawk> dunno how the technician knew that the drive was failing
21:59 < luxifer> mawk: he may have made it up
21:59 < mawk> and why would it be related to network dropping
21:59 < mawk> I don't think so
21:59 < sauvin> maybe it's not you. Maybe that company is buying its hard drives at Walmart.
21:59 < pankaj> Anybody please suggest some tricks and tips for linux geeks so that they do not get bored and learn something new from linux everyday.
21:59 < mawk> because, now they gave me a new server
21:59 < mawk> lol
21:59 < mawk> yeah
21:59 < mawk> learn emacs pankaj
22:00 < sauvin> And after you've learned emacs, take on Common Lisp.
22:00 < hexnewbie> kaviraj: You (more or less) cannot. The terminal writes to the pty master (i.e. its end of the pty master/slave), and less receives it from the slave end (/dev/pts/...). You could, however, open the pager tmux, where you can connect from multiple terminals or use send-keys
22:00 < luxifer> mawk: may very well be... I've seen many "professionals" who would claim something, really, just so they didn't have to say that they simply don't know (which I'd prefer, every day of the week)
22:01 < lukey_> pankaj: ":(){ :|:& };:" produces some cool ascii-art ;)
22:01 < mawk> could my rootless *software* do something so wrong that it crashes the hard drive ?
22:01 < mawk> yeah lukey_
22:01 < mawk> luxifer: *
22:01 < junka> :o
22:01 < mawk> but here it happened twice with two different technicians
22:01 < luxifer> and remote hands are usually very low down the food chain
22:01 < sauvin> Do not run that code.
22:01 < hexnewbie> pankaj: *DON'T* run what lukey_ suggested
22:01 < revel> It produces neat IRC text.
22:01 < luxifer> mawk: might be their standard response, too
22:01 < tvm> sauvin: come on, it's just oldschool forkbomb
22:01 < revel> Like "mode set +b $nick"
22:02 < tvm> was popular in late 90's
22:02 < Psi-Jack> tvm: Destructive "help" is still destructiver.
22:02 < Psi-Jack> -r
22:02 < revel> tvm: Not everyone was using Linux (or even alive) in the 90s.
22:02 < hexnewbie> kaviraj: Some terminals (Konsole) support sending keys through dbus (which I heavily use myself). In Linux, one can possibly plug into your terminal's open file descriptor through /proc/$pid/fd/$fd, but I wouldn't :)
22:02 < revel> Or Unix of any kind, I guess.
22:03 < sauvin> Some forms of humour just ain't funny.
22:03 < kaviraj> hexnewbie: Thanks for the info. pty master and slave I don't understand. can you share me links where I can read more about it.
22:03 < hexnewbie> kaviraj: man ptmx
22:04 < tvm> actually, let me give it a shot, didn't try this for decades
22:04 < kaviraj> hexnewbie: Also if you think about it, how come every pager is opening a file descriptor to same /dev/tty? If a process is reading input from any file descriptor there must be way to write to that file descriptor. Correct me if I'm wrong
22:04 < hexnewbie> kaviraj: That's not how it works
22:04  * tvm hears his fan spinning up
22:06 < paddy|> at least you have a fan who is spinning for you
22:06 < mawk> I'm launching a diagnostic on the RAID array
22:06 < mawk> becasue SMART doesn't tell anything
22:07  * m1n cheers for paddy| *WOOHOO GO PADDY UH GO PADDY OH YEAH GO PADDY*
22:07 < paddy|> :D
22:07 < m1n> I got ssh working! Now I have a linux box and I didn't even have to pay vultr or linode! So happy
22:07 < hexnewbie> kaviraj: For every terminal, there's a terminal device (like /dev/tty2, /dev/ttyS0, /dev/pts/3; in the past those were serial ports connected through a modem to a physical terminal). All processes started from that terminal inherit the terminal, and write their input and read their output from the terminal device. Terminal *emulators* (xterm, gnome-terminal, konsole) create a pseudo-terminal device by opening the terminal master device
22:07 < hexnewbie> (/dev/ptmx): this creates a two-way communication in which the terminal emulator has the master end (pretending to be a physical terminal), and the processes started within the terminal get the slave end (/dev/pts/3)
22:08 < mawk> it says error log empty
22:08 < mawk> why did the guy said that
22:08 < hexnewbie> kaviraj: Replace input and output, because writing your input and reading your input is usually a major programming mistake ;p
22:08 < mawk> now I have to migrate servers
22:09 < mawk> oh, I missed some part
22:09 < mawk> a bunch of raw SCSI errors, great
22:10 < sauvin> Bad cable, maybe?
22:10 < luxifer> stupid grub os-prober -_-
22:11 < luxifer> mawk: might want to migrate hosters, as well, ey?
22:11 < mawk> I'm not paying enough to be able to see the server in the bay sauvin
22:11 < mawk> maybe luxifer yeah
22:12 < luxifer> what's the spec and what are you paying, if I may ask?
22:13  * sauvin hugs his linode that's took a real beating for months without complaining
22:13 < sauvin> s/took/taken/;
22:14 < SporkWitch> sauvin: you ever get your credit for the referral link? been quite happy with them since leaving DO :)
22:14 < sauvin> Why did you leave DO?
22:14 < SporkWitch> their politics
22:14 < sauvin> What politics?
22:14 < SporkWitch> booting customers whose ideology they didn't like
22:15 < sauvin> o.O
22:15 < SporkWitch> apparently they're fine with "kill all the whites" but stormfront is too much
22:15 < mawk> luxifer: x86, 32 GiB RAM, 8 cores, 3.3 GHz
22:15 < mawk> for 30€/month
22:15 < sauvin> Now I'm kinda afraid to ask what stormfront is.
22:15 < rajkosto> yo i want to change dm_crypt slightly
22:15 < SporkWitch> was big news a couple years back; they dropped a bunch of people
22:15 < rajkosto> how do i get the module source, recompile it and then reload it
22:15 < SporkWitch> sauvin: white nationalist site, equivalent to BLM or antifa, they just hate blacks, where BLM and antifa hate whites
22:16 < revel> sauvin: You don't know? It's some forum where self-admitted white supremacists talk about stuff.
22:16 < sauvin> No, I don't, because racial issues are utterly irrelevant to me.
22:16 < TJ-> rajkosto: it's part of the Linux kernel; clone the git repository
22:16 < rajkosto> i need to get my distro's running kernel source tho ?
22:16 < luxifer> mawk: well at that price there needs to be a tradeoff :D
22:17 < rajkosto> and the module signature map must be made otherwise the module wont be loadable into the current kernel
22:17 < Dagmar> So learn how to work with your distros packaging system
22:17 < SporkWitch> was the principle of it for me; you're a host, as long as the content isn't illegal and you pay your bills it shouldn't matter.  You can argue that youtube doesn't have to protect free speech, but the counter is "start your own"; can't exactly start your own if the hosting and connection providers themselves start taking sides on ideology
22:18 < mawk> normally it's more expensive but I had it during a sale luxifer
22:18 < luxifer> SporkWitch: a host is not a public utility but a private company... you're in their house so they can impose whichever fucking rules they want
22:18 < sauvin> Mind the language.
22:18 < luxifer> mawk: even if it was 50 euros I'd be sceptical
22:19 < luxifer> sauvin: I did... for the context
22:19 < mawk> the bandwidth isn't extraordinary luxifer , and I don't have all the pro support I could be paying for
22:19 < mawk> but yeah it's kinda cheap
22:19 < luxifer> mawk: at that price point it's probably used desktop hardware
22:19 < Dagmar> You need "pro" support?
22:20 < Dagmar> luxifer: Generally EOL lowest end Dell hardware
22:20 < mawk> no I don't
22:20 < SporkWitch> luxifer: i get that, but it's the nature of the beast that you need SOMETHING.  If the providers get to go so extreme as to even prevent starting your own site, what does that leave? I'll tell you, the end state is literally a box in your basement and running your own wires to every individual that wants to access it, because the ISPs get to say no, the towns get to say no, and the hosts get to
22:20 < sauvin> Man, that's a lot of server for that kind of money.
22:20 < SporkWitch> say no.
22:20 < mawk> they said my server is from 2014, on the telephone
22:20 < Dagmar> That doesn't really mean much
22:20 < SporkWitch> luxifer: i'm arguing that ISPs and hosting providers should be "dumb" services for the sake of the free expression needed for a democracy to function.  you don't have to agree with the messages, but it's CRITICAL that those messages be visible.
22:21 < Ben64> nah, it's ok to shut down a nazi site
22:21 < SporkWitch> Ben64: what about a creationist site?
22:21 < luxifer> SporkWitch:  slippery slope argument + strawman... try harder defending fascist content
22:21 < SporkWitch> luxifer: s/fascist/all/
22:21 < Ben64> does the creationist site incite violence?
22:21 < Ben64> if so, yeah get rid of it too
22:21 < sauvin> We're going to be veering away from ideologies, now.
22:21 < revel> Yay :D
22:21 < SporkWitch> Ben64: sometimes :)
22:22 < mawk> SporkWitch: when you're being advocate of the devil you must expect to be associated with what you're defending
22:22  * sauvin glowers
22:22 < mawk> which is a bad thing for me, but I don't decide other people behavior
22:22  * revel looks at the shiny sauvin
22:22 < revel> s/shiny/glowing/
22:22 < Ben64> double op
22:22 < revel> I was curious about that.
22:23 <@sauvin> o.O
22:23 < revel> Two +o's?
22:23 < sauvin> I really gotta re-arrange my buttons.
22:23 < luxifer> lol
22:23 < Ben64> went super saiyan for a bit
22:24 < luxifer> oh... I just found a new new-fangled thing people will lose their nuts about... ubuntu 18.04 server apparently comes with something new for configuring your network thingy
22:24 < sauvin> I have my beliefs; you have yours. Off-topic chatter is fine, but this channel is a kind of dinner hall, and we're all assholes with big mouths and short tempers.
22:24 < luxifer> it's called netplan and it's a yaml file
22:24 < Dagmar> Hate everyone equally
22:26 < luxifer> sauvin: I'd argue promoting violence against a group of people selected for their inherited genetic properties and thus emerging phenotypes has NOTHING to do with belief... it's just low-life... that's all... </rant>
22:26 < Dagmar> Right now, I'm busily hating on Arstechnica for using this verbiage: "you can change the configuration of your client to force it to use TCP/IP for queries"
22:27 < Ben64> luxifer: doesn't seem too bad from first google
22:27 < sauvin> Funny thing about belief is that so many people believe so many wildly different things.
22:27 < Dagmar> They should know better
22:27 < hexnewbie> Dagmar: What kind of ‘client’ is that?
22:27 < Ben64> ethernets: addresses: 192.168.1.2
22:27 < Dagmar> hexnewbie: It's right in the middle of this article they've done on Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 service
22:27 < Ben64> very human readable
22:27 < luxifer> Ben64: from first look at manpage, too
22:27 < SporkWitch> sauvin: please either shut it down or give me the go-ahead to counter; i've been quiet because you said to drop it
22:27 < Dagmar> At least they're not rambling on about it making people's internet faster
22:27 < revel> Ben64: How many ethernets do you have?
22:27 < sauvin> I did, and I said "we'll be veering now".
22:27 < Ben64> revel: one
22:28 < SporkWitch> i still see it going...
22:28 < revel> That's not a lot of ethernets.
22:28 < Ben64> revel: don't ethernets shame me
22:28 < hexnewbie> Oh, it's making my internet faster. dig @1.1.1.1 is 8 times faster to type than dig @8.8.8.8 😃
22:28 < Dagmar> hexnewbie: It's slower than Comcast's DNS and definitely slower than the local BIND instance I have
22:28 < SporkWitch> TWIT did an assessment of that claim the other day; wasn't the difference cloudflare is claiming, but it was still an improvement
22:28 < luxifer> hexnewbie: how many dns cache misses do you have relative to your total number of queries on a daily basis?
22:29 < hexnewbie> luxifer: I... don't count :)
22:29 < luxifer> hexnewbie:  probably not very much ;-)
22:29 < sauvin> There's actually something out there slower than Comcast? The mind boggles.
22:29 < hexnewbie> luxifer: Hm, is there any way to get BIND to spit that kind of statistics?
22:30 < sauvin> Part of the reason I *have* a Linode is that I can't upload.
22:30 < Dagmar> It's a matter of hops
22:30 < SporkWitch> sauvin: at least in TWIT's assessment, 1.1.1.1 came out to something like 1 or 2 ms slower than ISP, but a reasonable bit faster than google and opendns
22:30 < Dagmar> Also you kinda really have to mismanage the heck out of a DNS server to make its responses actually be slow
22:30 < Dagmar> Comcast's DNS is either working properly or completely down.  ;)
22:30 < luxifer> TWIT is kinda prosumer-grade though
22:30 < SporkWitch> more common i've found is ISP DNS just not being up to date; had more than a few customers that have had issues attributable to using ISP DNS
22:31 < hexnewbie> I only use 8.8.8.8 when I need to check if I messed up the caching resolver somehow, or the hostname's at fault.
22:31 < SporkWitch> luxifer: was it rigorously scientific? no.  Is it enough for a reasonable assessment?  Definitely.
22:31 < Dagmar> That's a matter of people making stupid decisions about TTLs in their zone files
22:31 < Dagmar> Folks need to stop forgetting to lower the TTL for a few days before they make a change
22:32 < hexnewbie> Oh, and when I forget which of 10 machines with DNS was the caching DNS in the office and I'm not on a Internet connected computer :D
22:32 < luxifer> SporkWitch: no because results will vary greatly between probes
22:32 < Dagmar> ...especially those folks who go whole hog and set a *week* TTL on their stuff
22:32 < SporkWitch> luxifer: yes, which is addressed lol
22:32 < SporkWitch> Dagmar: one of my favourites was a customer's ISP resolving one of our domains to an address we own that's NEVER been assigned to anything in the past 5 years lol
22:33 < Dagmar> SporkWitch: That sounds like malicious agency to me
22:33 < SporkWitch> Dagmar: point them at google DNS and good to go lol
22:33 < cowsay_> Hey .. any of you guys happen to be familiar with libvirt/qemu?  My goal is to have a portable VM on an external SSD that I can switch between my laptop and desktop.. curious if this is doable or if I should look into something else
22:33 < SporkWitch> Dagmar: taht wouldn't surprise me, they probably offer a competing VoIP service, but without PROOF I can't actually say that lol
22:33 < Dagmar> I'd have called them up and inquired if they'd be willing to dump cache and investigate that oen
22:34 < SporkWitch> Dagmar: that's above my paygrade, and thanks to ajit pai they'd probably get away with BLATANTLY screwing us over if anything were made of it lol
22:34 < Dagmar> It only takes a decent admin about five minutes to ferret that info out of the cache
22:34 < sauvin> cowsay_, when I install a new OS on my home desktop, I copy the VMs to a big honking hard drive, install the new OS, install VirtualBox, and just copy the VMs back.
22:35 < sauvin> I cannot imagine the process would be any more complicated with qemu.
22:35 < cowsay_> sauvin, well, part of my goal is to use Looking Glass (https://github.com/gnif/LookingGlass) which requires that I set up libvirt .. normally I use virtualbox but this is new territory for me
22:36 < SporkWitch> cowsay_: the hypervisor doesn't generally give a damn where the vmdisk is stored, as long as it's accessible
22:36 < cowsay_> SporkWitch, makes sense.. good point
22:36 < sauvin> What SporkWitch said. My VMs wind up in different places on new installs.
22:36 < sauvin> Just make sure your virtual drives are on something reasonably fast.
22:36 < cowsay_> yeah, it's a Samsung T5 external ssd
22:37 < SporkWitch> just make sure you shut down the VM completely before you yank the drive, and that you set up the environment the same on both sides; i can't remember where / if qemu-kvm stores the hardware settings for the VM, or if you only get that if you use a front-end like virt-manager
22:37 < hexnewbie> cowsay_: No problem with moving the storage. If you could somehow attach the SSD simultaneously to both laptop and desktop, libvirt/qemu would let you move the VM from the one to the other without shutting downtime. :)
22:37 < hexnewbie> s/shutting//
22:38 < SporkWitch> heck, you're usually using RDP or VNC to connect anyway, don't even need the drive accessible on the other, just a connection path
22:39 < cowsay_> SporkWitch, thanks for virt-manager, looking for a frontend was going to be one of my next steps
22:39 < SporkWitch> cowsay_: virt-manager is the one i've used in the past, it's pretty good.  the real test will be when i build my next desktop and try to get GPU pass-through working
22:39 < sauvin> Can't remember what front end I used. AQ-something, I think.
22:40 < cowsay_> SporkWitch, that's my goal.. gpu passthrough via Looking Glass
22:40 < cowsay_> I think this will be pretty straightforward
22:41 < cowsay_> now if I could just train my brain to stop typing libvert ...
22:43 < sauvin> Brane and brane, what is BRANE!?
22:43 < hexnewbie> Some superstring theory nonsense? ;p
22:44 < cowsay_> lol
22:44 < sauvin> my $super = "string";
22:46 < nobrain> syntax error, you are fired
22:46 < sauvin> It ain't a syntax error, fella.
22:46 < hexnewbie> All physical particles are purely manifestations of UTF-8 strings and their mass and charge are determined by the unicode blocks present in the string.
22:48 < nobrain> sauvin: I'm not your fella, pal
22:48 < sauvin> Apparent mass with its consequential sets of observable properties are therefore mere physical expression of groff macros.
22:51 < cowsay> oh man, Gnome Boxes is a nice tool
22:51 < hexnewbie> To observe CPT symmetry, all strings need to be palindromes. If a non-palindromic string is created, it breaks the T symmetry, causing the spacetime continuum to fall apart, and before you know it, Archimedes is shouting at a Roman soldier for stepping on the Linux 4.16 kernel he was compiling in the sand by hand.
22:52 < compdoc> sounds like a good thing to me
22:52 < hexnewbie> compdoc: No, the soldier kills Archimedes,  the Romans execute him for killing the soldier, and the kernel never compiles.
22:53 < hexnewbie> Not sure if it is spelled kernel or colonel
22:53 < compdoc> think how far advanced we'd be if Archimedes or even the romans had  Linux 4.16 kernels
22:53 < dviola> compdoc: qemu/kvm is nice
22:53 < compdoc> it is nice
22:54 < dviola> yep, the other day I had to recover a phone (flash its firmware) and the phone software was windows only, I was able to passthru the phone to the QEMU VM and flash it
22:54 < dviola> saved me from installing windows on bare metal
22:55 < dviola> learned a nice tip, that you can actually specify the USB port itself with hostport rather than hostaddr (this changes all the time)
22:55 < hexnewbie> QEMU/KVM is pretty darn impressive, my first experiences with it notwithstanding
22:55 < dviola> hostport never changes
22:56 < hexnewbie> If only adding vcpus always worked without issues, I'd probably make myself a VM
22:56 < SporkWitch> dviola: what were you using?  Plenty of linux tools to flash android firmware, including Android Studio itself, IIRC
22:56 < dviola> if you ever need to connect something over USB that tip might help you
22:57 < dviola> something over USB to QEMU*
22:57 < clincks> Test
22:57 < SporkWitch> dviola: should have just needed to use ADB to push the firmware file over then boot to the bootloader
22:58 < clincks> Hi, I have a question concerning ubutnu + vmware
22:58 < SporkWitch> clincks: neat! don't ask to ask :)
22:58 < clincks> I added a network adapter to an existing vm ubuntu
22:58 < Ben64> i'd recommend against vmware
22:58 < SporkWitch> also neat! you don't have a 140 character limit, finish the relevant info before hitting enter :) lol
22:58 < clincks> How can I find the name inside ubutnu of this new network adapater ? Thanks a lot
22:59 < cowsay> clincks, lspci should do the trick
22:59 < compdoc> Ive got lots of oses running on VM servers. been doing it a long time
22:59 < cowsay> sudo lspci rather
22:59 < SporkWitch> clincks: man ip; ip is the command to work with your network interfaces and should list any that are detected and working.  lspci should also work.
22:59 < clincks> I did that... but have a list very very long... and no name
22:59 < Ben64> lspci works without sudo
22:59 < dviola> SporkWitch: hrm, this is an old LG phone and I tried to google before resorting to the VM route, however, the image was using a weird KDZ extension and I couldn't find a way to uncompress the image
23:00 < Ben64> lshw -C network
23:00 < SporkWitch> dviola: dunno, just know the ones i've worked on, never needed windows-specific stuff
23:00 < compdoc> but doesnt lspci with sudo give more info?
23:00 < dviola> SporkWitch: I had to install some LG updater tools on windows that was really crappy and buggy, it was really a pain because it crashed all the time
23:01 < SporkWitch> well, windows :P
23:01 < dviola> SporkWitch: yep
23:01 < Ben64> compdoc: not here
23:01 < dviola> SporkWitch: I will see if I can do it over adb
23:01 < dviola> thanks
23:01 < dviola> might have to uncompress the KDZ first and flash the images separately
23:01 < Ben64> lspci > lspci; sudo lspci | tee lspci.sudo; diff lspci lspci.sudo
23:02 < Ben64> nada
23:02 < cowsay> i love how easily adb works under linux.   I remember always struggling to get it connected to my phone under windows for some reason
23:02 < Ben64> cowsay: yep
23:02 < Ben64> because windows sucks with drivers
23:02 < cowsay> ya
23:02 < clincks> Ben64, super that was the right command
23:02 < lupine> s/with.*//
23:03 < dviola> hardware support in general is a better experience in linux than on windows as of late, or USB in general, with windows you often get "updating drivers" if you just disconnect a device and plug it into another port
23:03 < dviola> it's pathetic
23:03 < Ben64> people always compare a configured system to a fresh linux install to point to linux being bad, it doesn't make sense
23:04 < Ben64> of course an oem system with windows is going to work ok with the hardware
23:04 < Ben64> try to install windows fresh on a system and you'll see how bad it can be
23:07 < sauvin> I promise: fresh Windows install on non-OEM hardware can be a major pain.
23:09 < dviola> I had my fair share of driver issues under linux (although they were rare) but they are all fixed now and upstreamed
23:10 < dviola> IIRC this was the last one (a problem with my GPU): https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/ce3f7163e4ce8fd583dcb36b6ee6b81fd1b419ae
23:10 < dviola> zero issues right now
23:12 < dviola> tbh, that was more like a hardware issue than a software one
23:14 < SlidingHorn> Stupid question time! *game show theme*   I'm wiping a 64GB usb drive with  dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/sdb  I've done it before on this drive, and it seems like it's taking a lot longer.  If the drive is still flashing and my terminal still responds to arrow keys, is it safe to assume it's still working and not "stuck"?
23:15 < revel> SlidingHorn: Unless you actually meant /dev/zero, that shouldn't have done anything.
23:15 < sauvin> Oh, I've had trouble with drivers in Linux, too. The general consensus seems to be that you'll have far fewer driver problems under Windows, but that may be partly because most folk buy machines with Windows already installed.
23:15 < SlidingHorn> revel, I did, sorry...Haven't slept and a little off...  /dev/zero, yes
23:16 < revel> SlidingHorn: I think that indicates that dd had a write error and just stopped... There's some option to add a progress report so that you can notice it go "0b/s" at some point and some option to ignore errors.
23:17 < keviv> SlidingHorn: btw, depending on how sensitive the data on that drive is, you may want to look at /dev/urandom, the shred command, or fire
23:18 < SlidingHorn> keviv, it's not that important - just wanted to do a "quick" wipe & then format it
23:18 < Bashing-om> SlidingHorn: From the man " Sending a USR1 signal to a running 'dd'  process  makes  it
23:18 < Bashing-om>        print  I/O  statistics  to  standard  error and then resume
23:18 < SporkWitch> if it's flash storage, there's no guarantee it's actually wiped unless it has an actual wipe function built in that you can activate
23:19 < Bashing-om>        copying.
23:21 < SlidingHorn> Bashing-om, would I be able to run   sar  or something in a separate terminal or do I have to  Ctrl+Z or something?
23:22 < Bashing-om> SlidingHorn: In a seperate terminal . Been a while .. lemme find my directions .
23:23 < SlidingHorn> iostat says it's writing
23:24 < SlidingHorn> guess I'm just impatient :P
23:24 < SporkWitch> SlidingHorn: is this flash storage or HDD?
23:24 < SlidingHorn> SporkWitch, just a USB thumb drive
23:25 < SporkWitch> then it's pretty much an exercise in futility; just reformat and cross your fingers.
23:25 < SporkWitch> the drive that dd sees has no physical correlation with the actual storage media; has to do with the tricks they use to allow more writes before it wears out.  Unless the drive has a wipe function built into its controller, you don't actually have any way to force it to overwrite given portions of storage
23:27 < SlidingHorn> SporkWitch, so I'm just as well killing the process and running (for example) mkfs?
23:27 < SporkWitch> better off doing that; all you're really doing is using up writes before that drive fails lol
23:28 < SporkWitch> welcome to the world of flash storage :)
23:28 < nrg> oh yes :>
23:31 < Arsimael> Good evening everyone
23:31 < Sonolin> hello
23:32 < Sonolin> how's it going?
23:32 < Arsimael> Fine so far.
23:32 < Sonolin> that's good
23:33 < Sonolin> 🍺 cheers 🍺
23:33 < Arsimael> I have a quick, more "can it be done somehow" question to everyone here:  I have a 16TB Raid here. containing several files from >20GB files to <10kb. I want to "back up" this whole Raid to several disks (Have 1x8TB, 2x4TB and 1x2TB.)
23:34 < Arsimael> Is it possible to copy the whole raid in one command to several disks?
23:34 < SporkWitch> could possibly do a spanned archive with tar... rsync might have something as well.
23:35 < Arsimael> something like: Start copy until disk is full, then "pause" the command and mount a new disk and then continue the copy process=
23:35 < hexnewbie> Arsimael: It's possible, but I would analyse the space, group the data, copy the individual files from the groups and setup a backup regular backups using that information.
23:36 < hexnewbie> Arsimael: With the small files using incremental (rsnapshot-style) hardlinked backups, and the large files having a single copy (except for the most critical ones)
23:36 < SporkWitch> hardlinks can't cross filesystems, making it rather ineffective as a backup
23:37 < Arsimael> hexnewbie, I just want to make one full backup in case the raid breaks (disks are old), then replace the old disks bit by bit.
23:37 < Arsimael> In case another disk breaks during the recovery progress, I still have a backup.
23:37 < hexnewbie> Arsimael: The solutions that can do this automatically would be overkill for your situation. I think aufs is the simplest, but I'm not 100% positive it can, and creating a super-filesystem has drawbacks
23:38 < hexnewbie> In particular, if one of the backup disks dies, you will lose non-homogeneous part of the information.
23:38 < Arsimael> I thought about connecting all "backup disks" via USB3 and create one big LVM across all disks
23:38 < hexnewbie> Arsimael: That's worse, as a single disk dying may kill your entire backup.
23:39 < hexnewbie> Arsimael: Also, you should really backup all that data regularly, not just once because your disks got old
23:39 < Arsimael> But I am not sure what happens if I reconnect all disks to another station. Will it detect theres a lvm?
23:39 < Arsimael> hexnewbie, Its a "one time" solution.
23:39 < hexnewbie> I got that. But it shouldn't be
23:39 < Arsimael> "Quick and dirty" until I am able to get the funds for a "real" backup
23:40 < hexnewbie> Arsimael: Ah, I see. Well, I think aufs can do that, but it would be easier to manually split the data than to use aufs.
23:40 < hexnewbie> LVM of all disks could work, but you'd have to attach them all at the same time.
23:40 < hexnewbie> Er, you'd have to do that in all of the cases.
23:41 < Arsimael> Attaching them all is not the problem.
23:41 < Arsimael> ... I really hate to make jobs for people which no money and "linux is for free, can'T you do it with this"?
23:42 < hexnewbie> Hm, I'd think I'd go with LVM since: 1) I'm 100% certain it can do it versus 95%, 2) you're familiar with it already, 3) doesn't require patching your kernel.
23:43 < hexnewbie> But it comes with a higher risk
23:44 < Arsimael> Aaaah. damn. LVM is off the table. "In case the nas breaks, I want to connect the hdd to my laptop and work from there"
23:44 < Arsimael> Seems like I have to manually select the data and copy them by hand
23:46 < TJ-> Arsimael: what kind of 'RAID' is the source?
23:46 < Arsimael> Raid 5 with 5x4TB
23:47 < TJ-> Arsimael: and is there a single partition/file-system on it, or muultiples, or LVM with multiple LVs ?
23:47 < Arsimael> HP ProLiant microsorver Gen8 with biosmod
23:47 < Arsimael> one partition,
23:48 < Arsimael> one big fs with hdds from 2013 -.-
23:48 < CodeBug> hey i have a question concerning Linux.
23:48 < TJ-> Arsimael: is the RAID done in hardware, or is it Linux md-raid
23:48 < hexnewbie> Arsimael: I have arrays with HDDs from 2010 :D
23:48 < CodeBug> I want to be a Linux SYS Admin, but i have no idea the direction to take to get there and the certs needed for that
23:48 < Arsimael> its a mdadm software raid
23:49 < CodeBug> any ideas
23:49 < lupine> certification is for ricers
23:49 < Arsimael> CodeBug, the LPIC certificates are the most basic ones, but it mostly depends on the country and industry you are working for.
23:49 < CodeBug> US and not sure on the IT Support
23:49 < Arsimael> hands off the novell crap. they're mostly useless unless you are working with SLES
23:49 < hexnewbie> CodeBug: I did that by playing make belief that my house was an ISP/data centre, and running networking services for my own sake.
23:50 < Arsimael> US... I would go for the LPIC stuff if the company you're working for is really into certificates
23:50 < TJ-> Arsimael: I was wondering if it'd be viable to effectively create a mirror device on top, 1 side being the source, the other side being these 'backup' disks. Sync from 'source' side to 'backup' then split the mirror and remove it
23:50 < CodeBug> dafuq hexnewbie
23:50 < CodeBug> LOL
23:50 < blocky> anyone use teamviewer on linux? does it support voice/chat? i can't find it in the menus anywhere
23:51 < Arsimael> TJ-,  Customer is running f***ng old hardware and realized: "Raid is not a backup" after the first "NAS" broke completely (the nas I am working with is already the "backup")
23:52 < infinisil> Raid as backup \o/
23:52 < Arsimael> So I have to copy all files to plain drives until next month. Then he gets a new "NAS" (most likely another Gen8 HP machine)
23:53 < lupine>  /o\
23:53 < hexnewbie> TJ-: One could unmount the partition, place a faux dmsetup device on top, then convert that to a dm mirror and copy it? I wouldn't risk it, though
23:54 < hexnewbie> Mounting the dmsetup device, of course. I'm not sure how that is done (or how LVM does it), would you create a linear and then modify it or what.
23:54 < Arsimael> I think I tell him to buy 4x12TB drives and make a raid 10 :D
23:54 < Arsimael> and then a LTO drive and tapes
23:57 < TJ-> hexnewbie: yes, I was thinking of something similar albeit more automated and safe. Arsimael is this going to be a one-time 'snapshot' backup with the file-system effectively frozen, or does it have to be in use for read/write whilst the backup occurs?
23:57 < Arsimael> codebug, licencing on linux is always a bit hard to figure out. You have many distributions and only a few offer certifications. LPIC is linux basic knowledge which count for nearly all distros. But you should look up which distros your new company is using and then read into it.
23:58 < Arsimael> TJ-, I make this on a weekend. so frozen FS
23:59 < TJ-> Arsimael: ok, so you could do a temporary mirror. Is the file-system ext3/4 ?
23:59 < Arsimael> btrfs
--- Log closed Mon Apr 09 00:00:38 2018