--- Log opened Mon Apr 09 00:00:38 2018
00:01 < phinxy> When booting PXE then loading root from a NFS share the login fails..  Does the owner matter of the root files, can't see any NFS user.
00:01 < Arsimael> NFS is capable of users? I thought the NFS is done by allowing ips?
00:02 < Arsimael> plus the FS permissions...
00:02 < [R]> phinxy: of course the owner matters...if a file is supposed to be owned by root, then it has to be owned by root
00:03 < TJ-> Arsimael: bad choice! :) I was going to suggest, since the backup devices are smaller than the source, to first shrink the file-system to it's minimum so it (should) fit on the backup devices, shrink the partition to the same size as the backup devices (those devices being in a JBOD linear RAID-0 array *without* stripping), then create a RAID-1 mirror on top of the source array, then --grow the mirror to
00:03 < TJ-> include the backup device so source would sync over. Once done, --shrink the mirror to remove the backup devices, remove the mirror overlay, grow the partition and file-system back to original size
00:03 < Arsimael> if it needs to be read by public... chmod o+r ?
00:04 < Arsimael> TJ-, customer uses windows and wants to access the files on the backup drives with windows if the nas fails during the hdd switcharoo. so backup drives needs to be ntfs...
00:05 < TJ-> Arsimael: is the customer sane?
00:05 < Arsimael> no
00:05 < TJ-> Arsimael: so, file-by-file it is then!
00:05 < Arsimael> yep
00:05 < phinxy> What other than file permission and ownership could make a login prompt go: "wrong password!
00:06 < TJ-> Arsimael: sounds to me like the backup operation will put strain on the system and could trigger a failure :D
00:06 < Arsimael> Sometimes I love small 2 men companies. buying a server, modding it (no warranty) and then stuffing it with drives.
00:06 < Arsimael> bad: if it's a lawyers office <.<
00:07 < [R]> phinxy: your files in /etc are bad
00:07 < pnbeast> Send the entire /etc to bed with no supper!
00:08 < phinxy> [R]• They look alright. copied with -a -x from a working system.
00:08 < TJ-> Arsimael: I hope you get the client to sign an indemnity before you start that operation
00:08 < phinxy> theres a shadow as well that is intact
00:08 < [R]> well you screwed it up when you copied it
00:08 < [R]> or your nfs isn't set up right
00:09 < Arsimael> TJ-, I am going to sign a "I am aware that I am a moron if it comes to IT and I know it's my own fault if I loose my files" letter
00:09 < Arsimael> *I am going to make HIM sign a
00:09 < TJ-> Arsimael: good plan especially if they're lawyers
00:11 < TJ-> Arsimael: I once had a customer try to blame one of my guys for a server crash becaues he'd switched the lights off in their server room. Turned out later the weekly cleaner person had been in with a vaccuum and unplugged something vital to power the vacuum
00:11 < Arsimael> 14.21/16TB used. I bet these are not only company files. I bet there are are also a ton of 4K Videos of daughters/wifes/uncles/dogs birthday videos. I will tell him to make a list with the really business critical files and copy them first.
00:12 < TJ-> Arsimael: use "sudo du -d 3 / | sort -n" to get an ordered list of where the space is being used to help categorise them
00:13 < Arsimael> TJ-, nothing is better then the cleaning personal plugging in a 1200Watts device to the powersocket labled "UPS connected"
00:13 < phinxy> Whats wrong with that?
00:13 < phinxy> Isnt the battery often not engaged?
00:14 < Arsimael> the email you get if the UPS sends you a letter crying about "I can't handle this I am out"
00:14 < pnbeast> When I have a room to vacuum, I don't want to be standing around waiting for the power company to get their ducks in a row.  UPSed Hoovers! UPSed Hoovers!
00:15 < Arsimael> The Serverroom is off limits. No cleaning needs to be done in there.
00:15 < pnbeast> Well, not according to what all you've just said!
00:16 < TJ-> Arsimael: often the 'server room' is a box room or cleaner's closet :)
00:16 < Arsimael> Once I worked on a mid sized printing company. They had their own Serverroom with climate control and everything. And also a double bottom.
00:17 < Arsimael> where all rhe cables (and sadly also the power sockets) were hidden
00:17 < Arsimael> Got a new cleaning company. They started to wet wipe the floor
00:17 < pnbeast> That's called a raised floor.  A double bottom is what you get after years of too much beer and too much office work.
00:17 < Arsimael> ok, raised floor
00:19 < Arsimael> well. wet wiping a raised floor is a very good idea... if there are powersockets in there, face up.
00:22 < isol> is there a BitTorrent CLI client for linux?
00:22 < Arsimael> I think so
00:22 < vlt> rtorrent, for example
00:23 < Arsimael> Openmediavault runs without a GUI and they also have a bittorent client
00:23 < FreeFull> There's a bunch of different ones
00:28 < The_Dv8or> what up
00:29 < Arsimael> the urge to delete facebook accounts and elon musks car
00:30 < The_Dv8or> Elon Musk can suck it
00:30 < SporkWitch> don't be silly, you can't delete anything on facebook; how many times have they been sued for that now? lol
00:30 < The_Dv8or> he might be brilliant, but the image is completely phony
00:30 < geheimnisse> basque separatists ETA were the first people to send a car to space
00:31 < [R]> i read a thing today that said zuckerberg used failed password attempts to hack peoples accounts back in the day
00:32 < Arsimael> read an article today about musks car was not sanatized and now there might be some bacteria in it which might could - if the car crashes into another planet - "pollute" the environment.
00:32 < The_Dv8or> any of you use Chrome on Cinnamon?
00:32  * vlt wonders if there's more connections between Musk and ETA than he thought before.
00:33 < sauvin> The_Dv8or, nope, never happens.
00:33 < SporkWitch> The_Dv8or: don't ask to ask
00:33 < sauvin> (I'm being sarcastic; gave up on Chrome a while ago)
00:33 < The_Dv8or> Im having a hell of a time with it.  I install Chrome, and the moment I try to sign into my Google acct to sync bookmarks and stuff, it halts
00:34 < Arsimael> since chrome's scanning files on your HDD, I also switched back to edge/internet explorer at work
00:34 < [R]> The_Dv8or: that sounds unfortunate... chrome is closed source trash... you should probably complain to google if its broken crap
00:34 < Arsimael> Plus: Requested the installation of firefox on my pc
00:34 < sauvin> The_Dv8or, can you drop into a VC or a terminal emulator and use top or htop to see if you've got a lot of CPU going on when that happens?
00:35 < The_Dv8or> the halting seems limited to just Chrome.... rest of my apps work fine while its shittin the bed
00:35 < jim> yeah, just ask. also, add lots of informative details to expand the number of people who then realize they can help
00:35 < Arsimael> The_Dv8or, try installing chromium. you can also use it with your google account
00:35 < lupine> disable javascript
00:35 < lupine> things are so much faster
00:36 < Open_Future> hi all, running linux lite on an old laptop....took a lot of work to get wifi working.  Only problem now is I have to manually run "sudo modprobe 43" from a terminal when it first starts.  How can I automate this.  On Linux Lite 3.8...as it runs pretty good on this old laptop.
00:36 < Open_Future> I did add "b43" to /etc/modules but that doesnt seem to do anything
00:37 < sauvin> Been quite a while since I've had to do this, Open_Future, it might be that it's not enough to just include it in modules, but also make sure it's not blacklisted elsewhere.
00:37 < tpanarch1st> hello, how do I find all files with the name php.ini please? I tried find . -name php.ini but that did not work?
00:37 < sauvin> Oh, wow, look at my wobbly English.
00:38 < Arsimael> is it the wifi driver?
00:38 < Arsimael> tpanarch1st, depends on your distribution
00:38 < sauvin> tpanarch1st, where's '.' when you issue that command?
00:38 < dannylee> ...
00:38 < [R]> tpanarch1st: thats going to run it from the current directory... run it from /
00:39 < geheimnisse> photo of ETA launching car to space, cosmonaut was Luis Blanco: https://www.legrandsoir.info/local/cache-vignettes/L250xH246/arton23766-38684.jpg
00:39 < sauvin> [R], and that might be way too inclusive.
00:39 < [R]> sauvin: what?
00:39 < tpanarch1st> thank you [R] :)
00:39 < tpanarch1st> sauvin: i just got it on a website :)
00:40 < SporkWitch> tpanarch1st: don't run commands that you don't understand all the arguments for
00:40 < tpanarch1st> i'm running deb 9 "stretch" for that server
00:40 < sauvin> tpanarch1st, be advised that what [R] told you to do will search every directory you can go into on every drive currently mounted. Even on my home machine, that might take an hour.
00:40 < tpanarch1st> SporkWitch: that's a little bit over the top, with respect, it's a find command :)
00:40 < tpanarch1st> SporkWitch: more widely, good advice!
00:40 < Arsimael> then its in /etc/php/
00:40 < tpanarch1st> sauvin: that's cool dude :)
00:41 < SporkWitch> tpanarch1st: it's not, because your issue stems from not fully understanding what that command is doing.  also, just because it says find doesn't mean it doesn't do anything; fine can perform actions on the hits
00:41 < SporkWitch> s/fine/find/
00:41 < phogg> Open_Future: /etc/modules is the correct answer
00:41 < tpanarch1st> i guess if it's piped to something SporkWitch :)
00:41 < tpanarch1st> i have a few actually which is why I did it this way :)
00:42 < SporkWitch> tpanarch1st: no pipe needed
00:42 < tpanarch1st> ./etc/php/7.0/cgi/php.ini
00:42 < tpanarch1st> ./etc/php/7.0/fpm/php.ini
00:42 < tpanarch1st> ./etc/php/7.0/cli/php.ini
00:42 < tpanarch1st> ./etc/php/7.0/apache2/php.ini
00:42 < tpanarch1st> ./var/www/conf/web1/php.ini
00:42 < tpanarch1st> so it was useful to do it that way :)
00:42 < SporkWitch> don't spam
00:42 < tpanarch1st> SporkWitch: that's not spamming
00:42 < sauvin> Yeah, more than three or four lines, kindly use a pastebin. There's a link to a pastebin in the topic. :)
00:43 < tpanarch1st> oh dear it was 5 lines
00:43 < SporkWitch> sauvin: why won't september end?!
00:43  * tpanarch1st is a naughty boy
00:43  * tpanarch1st slaps himself :-p
00:43 < sauvin> SporkWitch, because nobody likes Octobre!
00:43 < Arsimael> I like octobear
00:44 < sauvin> Hrm... beer.... now you got me thinking.
00:44 < Arsimael> local radio announces it as "Rocktober" only playing classic rock music
00:44 < The_Dv8or> okay, back from monkeying around
00:44 < SporkWitch> octobear is horrifying: https://img14.deviantart.net/c4ea/i/2010/320/a/4/octo_bear_by_konjurer8672-d32yl1g.jpg
00:44 < The_Dv8or> Im running Ubuntu 17.10, Cinnamon 3.4.6
00:45 < sauvin> You mean, like Beethoven and Tschaikowsky after they discovered talking guitars and hairy-ass amps?
00:45 < SporkWitch> sauvin: hour and 15 left on the clock, no brews for me yet :'(
00:45 < Arsimael> ooooooh the wayland version
00:45 < The_Dv8or> tried installing Chrome via dpkg, and apt-get
00:45 < Open_Future> sauvin where do i check to see if its blacklisted
00:45 < sauvin> Open_Future, I don't remember. Let me see if browsing /etc suggests anything...
00:45 < The_Dv8or> when I try to sign in to sync my stuff, it just goes unresponsive after I submit the password
00:45 < phinxy> does beer and linux go hand in hand?
00:45 < Open_Future> phogg its there in /etc/modules but I think sauvin is right it might be blacklisted from when I was trying ndiswrapper...just not sure where that blacklist list is located
00:45 < SporkWitch> Open_Future: "[distro] package blacklist" is the google question you asked
00:46 < SporkWitch> modify as necessary if it's not a package
00:46 < sauvin> It ain't a package, it's a module.
00:47 < SporkWitch> phinxy: https://www.xkcd.com/323/
00:47 < sauvin> Open_Future, scout around in /etc/modprobe.d if you're on Ubuntu or close kith or kin.
00:47 < Open_Future> ok will try that thanks
00:48 < The_Dv8or> fuck it, maybe I shitcan the Linux primary desktop idea and go back to macOS
00:48 < phogg> Open_Future: fgrep -R blacklist /etc/modprobe.d/
00:48 < Psi-Jack> The_Dv8or: Kindly mind the language, please. :)
00:48 < The_Dv8or> sorry
00:48 < geheimnisse> never return to macOS
00:48 < Arsimael> install elementary
00:48 < sauvin> The_Dv8or, mind the language.
00:48 < SporkWitch> TempleOS!
00:48 < Arsimael> deepin linux!
00:48 < hanetzer> gentoo!
00:48 < The_Dv8or> every so often I try and migrate over to Linux as a primary desktop, and I always go back to macOS.  I dont even remember why Im tryin to migrate this time
00:49 < sauvin> TempleOS! Praise all the furry little kittens!
00:49 < revel> SporkWitch: Did you know that TempleOS is immune to Meltdown and Spectre?
00:49 < SporkWitch> you're all heathens and going to hell, TempleOS is God's chosen OS
00:49 < SporkWitch> revel: it's immune to a lot of things :)
00:49 < Arsimael> ubuntu 6.66 satanic edition
00:49 < phogg> The_Dv8or: deep in your heart you know it's the right thing to do
00:49 < hanetzer> The_Dv8or: keep osx, and install gentoo via prefix :)
00:49 < sauvin> The_Dv8or, you *might* find FreeBSD more to your liking.
00:49 < revel> No network-based vulns either.
00:49 < sauvin> (it ain't Linux, but it also ain't Mac OS X)
00:49 < hanetzer> honestly I just love the portage package management system. I'd use it on everything :)
00:49 < revel> It also doesn't have systemd, if you're one of those people.
00:49 < Arsimael> usn't macOS a bsd ripoff?
00:50 < SporkWitch> portage is pretty awesome
00:50 < dviola> this is how Terry celebrates after one decides to use TempleOS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQu-7DvtPEQ
00:50 < Open_Future> yeah sauvin it was there, i commented out and wil reboot to see what happens
00:50 < SporkWitch> Arsimael: MacOSX is a UNIX operating system, but heavily modified
00:50 < phogg> Arsimael: half a ripoff of BSD, half of NeXTStep. Okay, more than have is NeXT.
00:50 < sauvin> Mac OS X is a hybridised and blended fork of FreeBSD 4.2, iirc.
00:50 < lupine> it's junk
00:50 < lupine> consider the dynamic linker
00:51 < lupine> "oh let's just use absolute paths in everything and leave relative links mostly broken"
00:51 < Arsimael> I always thought MacOS is based on BSD
00:51 < sauvin> It is.
00:51 < The_Dv8or> Im pretty sure it is
00:51 < phogg> sauvin: Not really. It uses some bits and has kernel API compatibility from about that point, but XNU is really not FreeBSD.
00:51 < geheimnisse> yeah macos is SUS but it's still garbage
00:51 < lupine> you can be based on something good, yet still drowned in kaka
00:51 < revel> SUS?
00:51 < geheimnisse> single unix specification
00:51 < lupine> doi:capitalism/*
00:52 < Arsimael> I like macos. Trolled a lot of mac users at my old old old job 'cause ssh'd their machines and made the mac meow
00:52 < phinxy> This one is catchy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jp5uppqCc
00:52 < lupine> mrrrl
00:52 < phogg> geheimnisse: passing the certification tests is more about money than anything else. Anyone can make a Linux distro which passes.
00:52 < SporkWitch> Arsimael: https://www.xkcd.com/530/
00:52 < lupine> I gave masto a fair 6-month trial at the current job
00:53 < dviola> Arsimael: lol, is it that bad?
00:53 < phogg> very few companies bother... there's a reason for that
00:53 < geheimnisse> phogg i think theres a couple linux distros on there
00:53 < lupine> um, macos
00:53 < lupine> absolute junk
00:53 < lupine> masto is awesome
00:53 < phogg> geheimnisse: Yeah. Old ones. You technically have to re-certify after every release.
00:53 < Arsimael> you need apple script to adjust the volume
00:54 < SporkWitch> dviola: nothing can compare to: cat /vmlinuz >> /dev/audio
00:54 < lupine> the old ones you say? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/FbT4FayW7aw/maxresdefault.jpg
00:54 < Arsimael> short hint: the macos volume level goes from 1 to 10. NEVER! set it to 100. - If you do you get a Catzilla like meow...
00:54 < geheimnisse> sporkwitch WHY
00:54 < sauvin> Bear in mind that Mac OS X is a Darwin core (that's the FreeBSD part) with a pile of proprietary blobs heaped on top of it where most of the rest of us are using X.
00:54 < SporkWitch> geheimnisse: it's the voice of god...
00:55 < dviola> SporkWitch: haha
00:55 < geheimnisse> more like demon
00:55 < SporkWitch> we prefer daemon here, thanks
00:55 < stevendale> Hi
00:55 < stevendale> What's up~?
00:55 < Arsimael> the gas prices...
00:56 < geheimnisse> the stock market usually
00:56 < SporkWitch> up is the opposite direction from the centre of strongest perceived gravitational attraction
00:56 < Arsimael> talk about "whats up" to australians
00:56 < geheimnisse> also up is a great movie
00:56 < SporkWitch> SQUIRREL!
00:57 < lupine> SporkWitch: squirrel is delicious
00:57 < sauvin> With carrots and mushrooms, it's unbeatable!
00:57 < geheimnisse> yes squirrel is good but a bit greasy
00:57 < sauvin> Well, except maybe rabbit. Rabbit is awfully good.
00:57 < geheimnisse> squirrel gumbo
00:57 < lupine> I never got greasy
00:57 < revel> Arsimael: ¿uɐǝɯ noʎ op ʇɐɥM
00:57 < phogg> SporkWitch: Your answer is technically correct, the best kind of correct.
00:58 < lupine> I guess you could make it greasy by cooking it in lots of grease
00:58 < geheimnisse> the only thing i dont lile is trying to eat around the rib bones
00:58 < geheimnisse> like
00:59 < geheimnisse> theyre like toothpicks
00:59 < SporkWitch> be a man, don't eat around them
01:00 < geheimnisse> lupine gumbo is greasy in general in the first place
01:00 < Arsimael> are we talking about the european or the north american squirrel?
01:00 < geheimnisse> im talking about north american fox squirrels native to louisiana
01:00 < geheimnisse> which are the only ones ive eaten
01:01 < lupine> squirrels are pretty much the same the world over
01:01 < lupine> the bones are a pain though. mostly I had squirrel pie
01:01 < lupine> bones in pie = ick
01:01 < geheimnisse> theres size and stuff. like we have cat squirrels which are smaller and faster with less meat
01:01 < Arsimael> NA: http://www.inspirefusion.com/media/2012/fat_squirrel.jpg EU:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Eichh%C3%B6rnchen_in_Heilbronn.jpg/640px-Eichh%C3%B6rnchen_in_Heilbronn.jpg
01:02 < treefrob> what distro should I recommend to a ~60 year old cabinet-maker who currently uses Windows?
01:02 < blocky> lupine: the linux loader supports relative paths but the macos one doesnt?
01:02 < SporkWitch> treefrob: kubuntu
01:02 < treefrob> SporkWitch, why?
01:02 < lupine> the linux dynamic loader is sane
01:02 < lupine> the macosx one is not
01:02 < SporkWitch> treefrob: extensive support and KDE looks and behaves like windows 7 by default
01:02 < geheimnisse> treefrob the environment will feel familiar
01:03 < phogg> treefrob: Is he a computer-savvy type or someone who wants it to run forever without any touching?
01:03 < blocky> is kubuntu running the new plasma? i have been trying it on arch and it's impressive compared to the kde i remember
01:03 < treefrob> phogg, don't really know :)
01:03 < SporkWitch> treefrob: literally the only thing you should need to show him is the package manager, which you can explain in the form of "this is like the app store"
01:03 < Arsimael> KDE is more like windows?
01:03 < phogg> treefrob: It's hard to make a good recommendation, then. SporkWitch'
01:03 < SporkWitch> Arsimael: default appearance and behaviour is basically identical to win7
01:03 < geheimnisse> arsimael superficially
01:03 < Arsimael> I installed Deepin on mym moms PC. She's still thinking she is using windows 10...
01:03 < stevendale> Mech Warrior 4
01:03 < phogg> treefrob: SporkWitch's approach is a good one: a generic answer that will satisfy most
01:04 < blocky> lupine: interesting
01:04 < treefrob> phogg, sounds ok. I'll recommend that he boot the live system first anyhow
01:04 < lupine> if it's a mammal, you can almost certainly eat it
01:04 < phogg> geheimnisse: superficial is all most people notice
01:04 < lupine> although there may be ethical concerns
01:04 < phogg> treefrob: always a wise choice
01:04 < lupine> sorry, wrong channel :S
01:05 < lupine> wait, no
01:05 < phogg> lupine: are there no poisonous mammals?
01:05 < treefrob> "Deepin"?
01:05 < lupine> right channel, just interleaved conversations
01:05 < lupine> phogg: a few venomous ones, notably the platypus
01:05 < SporkWitch> phogg: platypi are venomous, not sure if any are poisonous
01:05 < lupine> no poisonous ones
01:05 < lupine> ^5
01:05 < stevendale> I'm in Queensland
01:05 < phogg> treefrob: It's a niche distro, not good for noobs IMO even though it is intended to be user friendly.
01:05 < stevendale> Lots of box jellies here
01:05 < stevendale> Sharks
01:05 < stevendale> Snakes
01:05 < stevendale> Spiders
01:05 < SporkWitch> stevendale: don't spam
01:05  * treefrob has a phobia of niche distros
01:05 < SporkWitch> also, it's australia, EVERYTHING wants to kill you
01:05 < geheimnisse> lupine us cajuns when were in our communities generally only take animals for food so i lol at ethical concerns. like we live more "authentically" than most in the us. granted im far away from my old community these days
01:05 < luke-jr> [  829.295068] WARNING: CPU: 3 PID: 0 at kernel/rcu/tree.c:2792 rcu_process_callbacks+0x48e/0x4b0 <-- what would cause this? I'm getting it even after a cold boot now :/
01:06 < lupine> stevendale: I want to introduce you to the concept of "mammal2
01:06 < lupine> there are a few important characteristics to mammals. unfortunately for you, they are lacking in all groups so far named by you
01:06 < sauvin> But snakes are good when fried in butter.
01:06 < lupine> 1) warm blood. 2) blood
01:06 < lupine> yeah, snake is delicious
01:06 < treefrob> SporkWitch, phogg Arsimael: thanks
01:07 < stevendale> I'd prefer to be cold blooded
01:07 < geheimnisse> alligator tail
01:07 < SporkWitch> lupine: mammaries are kind of a big one
01:07 < stevendale> Would give me an excuse to go naked in public
01:07 < stevendale> :3
01:07 < geheimnisse> nutria
01:07 < lupine> SporkWitch: nah, that's just a consequence of male dominated science
01:07 < lupine> obsessed with mammaries
01:07 < stevendale> And plank on public benches in the sunlight
01:07 < Arsimael> treefrob, If you try deepin, try to get an actual build (arch or antergos) old versions are fu***ng buggy
01:07 < SporkWitch> lupine: clearly; remember that the youtube shooting is the fault of patriachy, not an insane arab leftist
01:08  * stevendale is on XP... knows all about bugs
01:08 < geheimnisse> youtube shooting?
01:08 < SporkWitch> geheimnisse: literally plug those two words into any search engine on the planet... have you been under a rock the past week? lol
01:08 < phogg> geheimnisse: someone shot up one of youtube's video-recording spaces
01:08 < Arsimael> stevendale, you are running an outdated, unsupported od with no updates? and you are online?
01:08 < SporkWitch> phogg: youtubeHQ
01:08 < Arsimael> I also like to live dangerously
01:09 < geheimnisse> stevendale go try to get support in #windows and let us know how friendly they are to winxp users
01:09 < phogg> SporkWitch: oh, was it the HQ? I didn't pay much attention
01:09 < geheimnisse> i live under a punk rock
01:09 < stevendale> geheimnisse I've been there :) They ban XP users
01:09 < SporkWitch> Arsimael: i wouldn't worry, it's XP, any malware it gets will crash it before any damage can be done lol
01:09 < Arsimael> Wanacry?
01:09 < phogg> stevendale: Really? Seems harsh. XP is fine except for some security problems.
01:09 < SporkWitch> ...
01:10 < Arsimael> If I am really bored, I install windows XP and go to hacking boards, offending people and tell them "No one of you loosers can hack me lol"
01:10 < sauvin> No security problems here. The VMs XP runs in have no net access.
01:10 < phogg> I still know places running Win98. Not connected to the internet, of course.
01:10 < Arsimael> phogg, ATMs?
01:10 < phogg> Arsimael: not that I know of
01:10 < Arsimael> some do
01:10 < SporkWitch> that's a bit different lol; i got an AT-form machine in 2006 that came in for repairs; it was running a factory floor for a couple decades lol
01:11 < Arsimael> eigher 98, less old ones 2000, a bit newer ones XP embedded and new ones win7
01:11 < phogg> WinXP VMs are the only way to *actually* test for IE7 JS behavior.
01:11 < SporkWitch> phogg: i don't see the point; screw people that use IE Lol
01:11 < luke-jr> phogg: last I checked, IE 5 worked in WINE fine
01:11 < oiaohm> phogg: I still know of places using MS Dos 6.22 for different business things.
01:11 < phogg> Arsimael: I've seen some ATMs running OS/2. Guess how I noticed?
01:11 < Arsimael> opened them and had a look inside?
01:11 < phogg> luke-jr: no one uses IE5, but IE7 is still seen on the real internet
01:12 < stevendale> I think IE4 was available for Mac on PPC
01:12 < phogg> Arsimael: crash screen where the UI should have been
01:12 < Arsimael> I still have the instll disks of dos 6.0 and win3.11. I bet if I try, I could still hook it up to the net
01:13 < phogg> stevendale: Yes, I believe 4.1 to 5.5 was. But it's not the same browser bug-wise.
01:14 < oiaohm> stevendale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_for_UNIX  there is a time frame where Microsoft did attempt to  take IE cross platform.
01:14 < phogg> My workplace required testing ("Works, even if it looks bad") in IE7 until last year when the numbers apparently stopped being high enough to care.
01:14 < phogg> oiaohm: was it ported anywhere other than Solaris?
01:15 < stevendale> I use Firefox ESR on XP, but I have IE8 installed
01:15 < Arsimael> phogg, install a browser switch: If IE<8 show "Install a real browser like Firefox or vivaldi"
01:15 < SporkWitch> this ^
01:15 < oiaohm> phogg: HP-UX and the HP-UX one with loader mess you could get running under Linux.
01:15 < pnbeast> We had some ancient IE on SunOS, or maybe Solaris.  Nobody used it.
01:15 < lupine> SporkWitch: actually, it's the fault of american gun laws
01:16 < lupine> fun fact: several of my workmates were in the immediate vicinity of that shooting
01:16 < phogg> Arsimael: not my call
01:16 < SporkWitch> lupine: the gun laws in that area are some of the most absurd (and arguably unconstitutional) in the country.  The problem wasn't the gun laws, the problem was the chick was batshit
01:16 < lupine> oiaohm: in fairness, MSDOS 6.22 is a classic
01:16 < phogg> Arsimael: when I was still fixing IE7 compat bugs in 2013 I started campaigning to drop support and the answer was "People still use it, we still support it."
01:16 < lupine> SporkWitch: no, the problem was the gun laws
01:17 < lupine> widespread availability across the continent make local laws irrelevant
01:17 < Arsimael> phogg, perfect example why we still use SSL instead of TLS >.<
01:17 < SporkWitch> how's that working for london? oh that's right, they've been seeing a huge upswing in shootings
01:17 < lupine> knifings*
01:17 < phogg> lupine: availability is such a mild word
01:17 < SporkWitch> (not to mention the stabbings)
01:17 < SporkWitch> shootings too :)
01:17 < lupine> shootings are rare, because ammunition is rare
01:17 < lupine> it costs *so much* to shoot someone
01:17 < phogg> Arsimael: I know, right? Some days it scares me, other days I try not to think about it.
01:18 < SporkWitch> phogg: you can't reason with people that thing "ban all the guns" works anywhere
01:18 < SporkWitch> s/thing/think/
01:18 < lupine> you can get a firearm illegally without too much bother, but transporting it is hell, and so is feeding it
01:18 < Arsimael> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyb6vS6ROk0
01:18 < phogg> SporkWitch: I don't think you could (or should).
01:18 < lupine> SporkWitch: I'm all for widespread gun ownership
01:18 < lupine> just in a context of training and strict carry legislation
01:18 < phogg> lupine: practicing is pretty hard too
01:18 < lupine> switzerland, finland, etc, show the way here
01:19 < lupine> I'd really like to learn to gun, but being in .uk makes it quite infeasible
01:19 < phogg> I'm all for mandatory membership in militias who have responsibility for storing the weapons when not in use.
01:19 < SporkWitch> oh absolutely, i say wipe out literally every gun regulation we have and replace it with: no flamethrowers, no explosives other than gunpowder, mandatory background check, mandatory training, and a range qualification (if you can't put bullets on target, you shouldn't be carrying).  nothing else needed.
01:20 < Arsimael> I don't want to say "Kill all Idiots" - But I am very enthusiastic about "Remove all warnign labels and let nature do her job"
01:20 < phogg> SporkWitch: importantly mandatory periodic refresher courses, as with driver's licenses and you lose your carry permit if you fail.
01:20 < lupine> the human condition is entirely about thwarting "nature!"
01:20 < SporkWitch> none of these things would have had any impact on the youtube shooting, of course, but it would address many of the potentially preventable ones
01:20 < lupine> consider the extension of animals that predate on humans
01:20 < phogg> SporkWitch: perfection is impossible but we can do quite a lot better than we are
01:20 < SporkWitch> phogg: i don't distinguish between carry and own; if you can own you should be able to carry, concealed or in the open.
01:20 < lupine> if we were to let nature do its job, we'd be introducing rabid wolves into NYC in high numbers
01:20 < iflema> Arsimael: hear here
01:21 < SporkWitch> phogg: sure, but this isn't one of those cases
01:21 < lupine> in fairness, social darwinists *are* trying to ban vaccination
01:21 < lupine> so they are at least internally consistent
01:21 < phogg> SporkWitch: I definitely do. A gun kept on your property is one thing, carried into public spaces is something else.
01:21 < lupine> but they're still cunts
01:21 < SporkWitch> phogg: either you can be trusted to own and operate it safely or you can't; that doesn't change whether you're at home or not
01:22 < phogg> SporkWitch: If you need a license to *own* it when you lose that license you have to give it up. I'm not okay with that. I am okay with requiring a license to move it.
01:22 < ananke> by that extent, it should be ok to walk around with a lit torch
01:22 < CodeBug> Ok Fedora, RHEL, CentOS, Ubuntu or Arch?
01:22 < lupine> SporkWitch: people act differently at home to when they are in a shared environment
01:22 < SporkWitch> phogg: that's certainly handleable with a grace period, depending on the reason you lose that liscense.  Expiring != revocation
01:22 < phogg> ananke: or a vial of some dangerous chemicals
01:22 < lupine> they masturbate, scratch their arses, shoot intruders, et
01:23 < lupine> ...c
01:23 < ananke> CodeBug: without context or purpose, there is no answer
01:23 < Arsimael> Fedora if you want an old kernel, Arch if you want cutting edge
01:23 < SporkWitch> CodeBug: no surveys
01:23 < triceratux> CodeBug: yes
01:23 < lupine> in .fi the legislation is that guns can be stored at home, but the guns and ammunition must be separately stored
01:23 < Arsimael> Fedora==Centos
01:23 < lupine> in proper cabinets
01:23 < ananke> Arsimael: not even close
01:23 < Arsimael> oh wait
01:23 < phogg> SporkWitch: I'm not talking expiration, I'm talking failure to test OK in ability to use it safely.
01:23 < Arsimael> RHEL=Centos
01:23 < CodeBug> ananke, I'm running 4 3tb drives one with Windows, One with Ubuntu, One with Debian and the last one I was hoping to put Arch on but it seeems to be a pain in the backside?
01:23 < lupine> this is good. it allows for civil defence without allowing for murders of passion
01:23 < CodeBug> I'm not surveying SporkWitch
01:24 < lupine> amazing how much you can cool down while running from cabinet to cabinet
01:24 < geheimnisse> gun legislation is so strange to me because i was taught how to shoot around age 4 to 5
01:24 < ananke> CodeBug: that doesn't tell me anything about your actual goals, needs, desires, etc
01:24 < CodeBug> I'm asking the differences on the distros.
01:24 < SporkWitch> phogg: that would be something that warrants a grace period to requalify
01:24 < lupine> geheimnisse: right, so you'd pass a gun license test with flying colours
01:24 < stevendale> Ubuntu is Debian made usable
01:24 < CodeBug> I'm looking for a desktop that i can control infinitely ananke
01:24 < lupine> no worries
01:24 < phogg> SporkWitch: Let's assume you simply can't. Physically or mentally infirm.
01:24 < SporkWitch> phogg: but yeah, if you continuously fail to meet the standard you SHOULD lose it; you can't be trusted to operate it safely
01:24 < stevendale> Windows is just... Windows
01:24 < [R]> CodeBug: linux is linux
01:24 < lupine> stevendale: debian is already usable you git
01:24 < [R]> CodeBug: just pick a sane dist and go with it
01:24 < ananke> CodeBug: you can do that on any distro. it's a matter of time and effort.
01:24 < CodeBug> LOL [R]
01:24 < [R]> CodeBug: thats not a joke
01:24 < lupine> all ubuntu adds is shuttleworth's cock
01:24 < lupine> for sucking
01:24 < stevendale> lupine That's not what Linus says :P
01:25 < SporkWitch> phogg: then you can no longer safely operate it and so should not be permitted to keep it; the threat you pose to others now outweighs your right to own it
01:25 < ananke> lupine: you may want to watch your language
01:25 < lupine> linus has many opinions I disagree with
01:25 < lupine> he's a person, not a god
01:25 < phogg> SporkWitch: I am not okay with government goons rifling through my house even in that circumstance.
01:25 < CodeBug> Meaning? I was under the impression that Ubuntu was based on commerical soft, and Debian was freeware?
01:25 < geheimnisse> lupine yeah basically but i also have no desire to carry
01:25 < CodeBug> and Arch was basically from scratch?
01:25 < CodeBug> lupine, lol
01:25 < CodeBug> seriously?
01:25 < lupine> ananke: noted
01:25 < phogg> CodeBug: You are way, WAY off.
01:25 < Arsimael> Ubuntu is easy to use, but ubuntu makes many things differently. But good for beginners.
01:25 < lupine> speaking of freeware, I was in love with diana gruber as a kid
01:25 < [R]> CodeBug: ubuntu is just repackaged debian
01:25 < CodeBug> Ok then please enlighten me a bit. because my goal ultimately is SysAdmin.
01:25 < SporkWitch> phogg: if it keeps joe vigilante that follows every shooting with "if i had my gun" from having a gun, i'm okay with it lol; every time i see one of those guys my immediate reaction is "thank goodness you didn't"
01:26 < ananke> CodeBug: arch is going to require much more effort to keep maintained in a long run. and no sane 'sysadmin' would come close to arch
01:26 < lupine> gun ownership is like politics
01:26 < phogg> CodeBug: Ubuntu is largely based off of Debian. It's run for profit where Debian is run not-for-profit, and they added a handful of apps, but that's about it.
01:26 < CodeBug> Linux SysAdmin, possibly redhat certified..or Comptia Linux+
01:26 < lupine> anyone who wants to be involved should be immediately disbarred
01:26 < ananke> CodeBug: if system administration is your goal, then go with centos.
01:26 < Arsimael> [R], not really, there are many defferences. It's based on debian
01:26 < CodeBug> ok ok thanks phogg.
01:26 < CodeBug> I get that and hey Arsimael
01:26 < CodeBug> again.
01:26 < [R]> Arsimael: lol
01:26 < lupine> I'd like to learn to shoot, but I've no interest in having a gun on my own premises
01:26 < SporkWitch> CodeBug: RHEL/CentOS and Debian would be what you want to look at for the enterprise
01:26 < Arsimael> centos and RHEL are litterally the same. You can even "upgrade" centos to RHEL
01:26 < lupine> that'd be like scattering the house with random landmines
01:27 < phogg> CodeBug: Comptia certs aren't worth anything except perhaps if you run out of toilet paper.
01:27 < pnbeast> lupine, I'm good with that.  You can buy one and keep it at my place.
01:27 < lupine> a *lot* of human effort is put into making living spaces as safe as possiblke
01:27 < [R]> phogg: the paper its printed on...
01:27 < phogg> lupine: I'm with you on that.
01:27 < lupine> adding a wide variety of killing tools completely circumvents that
01:27 < CodeBug> Seriously? I was torn between CCNA, and Comptia.
01:27 < lupine> I'm ok with dual-use killers, like knives or whatever
01:27 < Arsimael> but asking for "Which distro is the best" only leads to 100 defferent answeres from 80 people
01:27 < CodeBug> what certs would help me honestly then.
01:27 < phogg> CodeBug: CCNA every time
01:27 < lupine> but I can't imagine using guns in cooking
01:27 < SporkWitch> lupine: i miss having a handgun; i've no idea how NY's laws haven't seen a constitutional challenge.  I can walk into Dick's and walk out with a shotgun (terrible for home defense in the apartment layouts around here; too long to bring to bear quickly or accurately), but it costs hundreds of dollars, the better part of a year, and i have to convince the government that they should LET me have a
01:27 < SporkWitch> handgun
01:27 < CodeBug> Arsimael, wasn't asking what was the best.
01:27 < lupine> I like gunpowder tea, but come on
01:28 < CodeBug> Was asking for practicality for my situation
01:28 < geheimnisse> lupine yeah if someone is obsessed with guns its a bad sign. i grew up with a rifle in my hand literally ans have no desire to bring guns anywhere ... they stay at home unless im target shooting or hunting or something specific. gun nuts are scary.
01:28 < sauvin> Yeah, though I walk through the ghetto in the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil for Oh my DEITY have I ever got GAS today...!
01:28 < Arsimael> Learn the basics.
01:28 < [R]> CodeBug: the best is to pick one mainline dist, and go with it
01:28 < lupine> in scotland, we recently introduced licensing requirements for *airguns*
01:28 < [R]> CodeBug: not install a million differnet ones
01:28 < SporkWitch> CodeBug: cisco certs are generally more highly regarded than comptia
01:28 < lupine> I am strongly in favour of this, since I am peppered with airgun shot
01:28 < lupine> nearly lost an eye
01:28 < SporkWitch> CodeBug: at least in the industry; still shocks me how many HR types are impressed by an A+
01:28 < Arsimael> I started with suse, then debian, then ubuntu then antergos, now arch
01:28 < CodeBug> So CentOS would be up my alley or Debian.
01:29 < lupine> the locals got quite upset though
01:29 < geheimnisse> but i also went from cajun community to major urban area where people got shot all the time and stuff so i associate it with sadness
01:29 < phogg> geheimnisse: I'm betting most gun owners are like you. They wouldn't find a few more laws much of a burden, if the laws were written carefully. Except carefully written laws only happen in fiction...
01:29 < lupine> "how will I put the family pet down now?", etc
01:29 < ananke> CodeBug: definitely. centos likely more so than debian, but it varies.
01:29 < SporkWitch> CodeBug: CentOS is basically a slightly outdated, free version of RHEL.  RHEL, CentOS, and Debian are the most common in the enterprise.
01:29 < CodeBug> Arsimael, CentOS THEN Arch basically in the progression of things.
01:29 < ananke> CodeBug: no arch. forget about arch.
01:29 < CodeBug> lol ananke
01:29 < CodeBug> got it.
01:29 < SporkWitch> arch has no place outside of hobbyists
01:29 < Arsimael> RHEL/CentOS and SLES are used often in enterprise companies. If you want to work there, it's a good thing.
01:29 < CodeBug> wow..never expected that.
01:29 < CodeBug> Thats what I want.
01:30 < [R]> SporkWitch: centos is identical to rhel
01:30 < CodeBug> I'm 34 trying to change careers.
01:30 < [R]> its not "outdated" in any way
01:30 < lupine> [R]: it's not though
01:30 < phogg> CodeBug: Others have different opinions but I strongly discourage you from using Arch unless and until you have a good deal of experience with more stable distributions.
01:30 < ananke> CodeBug: not sure where you were getting your previous information from that lead you to arch
01:30 < SporkWitch> [R]: my understanding is it lags behind and doesn't receive as much support.
01:30 < [R]> SporkWitch: it doesnt lag anything
01:30 < CodeBug> faulty people ananke
01:30 < lupine> but as long as it's not fedora, I'm happy
01:30 < [R]> infacct sometimes they deploy updated packages before rhel does
01:30 < phogg> CodeBug: Arch is for a very specific sort of Linux user and if you are new then you are NOT the sort who wants it.
01:30 < Arsimael> [R] 3.X Kernel in RHEL7...
01:30 < SporkWitch> [R]: or was it the other way around, CentOS is basically the guinea pig for the next stable RHEL?
01:30 < lupine> no, that's fedora
01:30 < lupine> centos is RHEL without any support
01:30 < [R]> Arsimael: ?
01:30 < CodeBug> So i need to install CentOS on my drive and drop kick Debian since I'm looking for Enterprise work.
01:30 < CodeBug> also are Redhat certs worth it
01:30 < lupine> no
01:31 < phogg> SporkWitch: it lags  behind in *releases* by a few weeks or months, but otherwise is the same.
01:31 < lupine> none of the certs are worth anything
01:31 < [R]> CodeBug: if you find a job that says they need it, sure its worth it
01:31 < oiaohm> CodeBug: in the RPM distributions people forgot about Scientific Linux
01:31 < SporkWitch> phogg: i'd dispute that.  it depends on how you learn.  I agree he is probably not that type, but the type that is good at reading documentation and experimenting can learn a lot starting with something like arch
01:31 < CodeBug> Sci-Linux?
01:31 < ananke> CodeBug: 'worth' is subjective. I personally wouldn't invest in them out of my own pocket, but if your employer pays then go for it
01:31 < lupine> unlike the MS ecosystem, competence matters more than paper
01:31 < phogg> CodeBug: same story as CentOS
01:31 < Arsimael> [R] Have to work with RHEL, it has a 3.X kernel in Release 7...
01:31 < lupine> credentialism is infantilisj
01:31 < [R]> Arsimael: ok... and?
01:31 < CodeBug> haha. Competence does matter.
01:31 < lupine> -j+m
01:31 < lupine> right, and paper does not
01:31 < lupine> credentials in this space are not a guide to competence
01:32 < oiaohm> CodeBug: https://www.scientificlinux.org/  maintained for a few supercomputers because no why in hell are they going to pay redhat prices for super.
01:32 < phogg> CodeBug: Some people will look for certs on your resume. The RH certs are probably good to have if you need that kind of thing. When I look at hiring sysadmins I don't care whether they have certs or not, I can gauge skill by cross examination.
01:32 < Arsimael> We are at 4,15(or16) now?
01:32 < ananke> CodeBug: experience matters. since you have no verifiable experience, that's where certs come in handy
01:32 < [R]> Arsimael: ok... and?
01:32 < SporkWitch> certs have their uses, and not just to the HR department. Earning a cert helps give you a decent skillset to target to learn, and obtaining that cert is proof to YOURSELF that you know how to do a certain set of things.
01:32 < lupine> if anything, I'd bias *against* people with credentials
01:32 < CodeBug> again i'm not trying to start a war. I'm trying to establish a baseline of what to look for so i don't waste time and money
01:32 < Arsimael> sounds pretty old for me
01:32 < lupine> it doesn't though
01:32 < SporkWitch> CodeBug: asked and answered
01:32 < [R]> Arsimael: is there a point?
01:32 < lupine> it just funnels money to the LPI or whoefver
01:32 < phogg> CodeBug: that said I count CompTIA certs on a resume as a sign of a fool.
01:32 < lupine> the credentials are trivial to acquire independent of comptenence
01:33 < lupine> (only spelt correctly)
01:33 < Arsimael> [R], no, just wanted to say the in my point of view I would rater use another distro to learn with
01:33 < CodeBug> competence
01:33 < [R]> Arsimael: use whatever you want...
01:33 < CodeBug> sorry grammar-nazi.
01:33 < lupine> hello whisky
01:33 < [R]> Arsimael: but if your goal is to learn something used in enterprise... and that enterprise is using rhel...
01:33 < lupine> the best way to acquire competence, IME, is just to use it as your daily OS
01:34 < CodeBug> Phogg I kicked a message your way
01:34 < lupine> nothing inspires learning like your own photos being on the line
01:34 < geheimnisse> after seeing the kind of fools who got hired where i work after demonstrating "competence" re: linux during the interview process, i dunno if id trust certs
01:34 < Arsimael> I know.... I have a lot of problems at work with rhel because it's old
01:34 < lupine> bias *against* certs
01:34 < Arsimael> okok, because it uses older versions
01:34 < lupine> people attracted to a certification track are not well-suited to an ecosystem where arbitrary decisions based on ego are the norm
01:34 < ananke> using linux on a normal system for daily work won't give you much experience relevant to proper system administration
01:34 < lupine> sure it will
01:35 < lupine> consider backups
01:35 < ananke> lupine: hardly. what is it going to teach you exactly?
01:35 < phogg> lupine: I endorse everything you're saying, more or less.
01:35 < SporkWitch> not if you're using any fit-for-purpose workstation distro lol
01:35 < lupine> ananke: how to take backups in a linux-dominated ecosystem
01:35 < CodeBug> True but trying to learn how to set that up to necessarily to gain said experience.
01:35 < lupine> this is super-important
01:35 < ananke> lupine: 'backups' for a single system would differ from large scale enterprise
01:35 < lupine> not the case
01:35 < ananke> lupine: sure is
01:35 < lupine> but who has a single system these days anyway?
01:35 < phogg> lupine: starving students?
01:35 < lupine> your average techbro literally bristles with devices
01:35 < phogg> IOW poor people
01:35 < ananke> lupine: it's what you proposed
01:35 < lupine> *literally*
01:36 < ananke> 19:33  lupine> the best way to acquire competence, IME, is just to use it as your daily OS
01:36 < lupine> you can't hug them for fear of tablet evisceration
01:36  * sauvin hides the laptop in his bedroom, the server in the closet, the router by the living room window and just claims to have a desktop in the other corner
01:36 < lupine> ananke: right
01:36 < SporkWitch> most people, and even those with more than one don't generally USE them together, they use the desktop at home and the laptop when they're not, probably using google drive or dropbox to share files between them
01:36 < lupine> that covers tablet, mobile, desktop, laptop and network infra
01:36 < SporkWitch> you COULD set up a home lab environment, but most don't, even those that work in the industry
01:36 < Arsimael> ananke, Yes and no. A desktop OS has a completely different use case then a server
01:36 < phogg> ananke: I certainly wouldn't get certs *first*. Use it as your daily OS, make an effort to understand how it works.
01:36 < lupine> not a lab
01:36 < lupine> just daily use
01:36 < ananke> that's not going to teach you anything about how to do stuff in a repatable manner, any of the SOPs used in production
01:36 < lupine> throw out the proprietary applicances
01:36 < sauvin> lupine, don't forget your WATCH, your microwave and these days, your flipping KITCHEN STOVE!
01:36 < lupine> true
01:37 < ananke> phogg: sure, it helps, but it doesn't address much
01:37 < lupine> replace whatever you can
01:37 < lupine> but be pragmatic - go one at a time, as your skills increase
01:37 < phogg> ananke: It's literally how I learned everything I know, other than also lurking here.
01:37 < ananke> using linux as your daily driver gets you a glorified help desk position. not a seat with the rest of the sysadmins and engineers
01:37 < SporkWitch> lupine: there's a lot of stuff you CAN do to tie stuff together, but it's not comparable to an actual enterprise environment unless you go out of your way to make it one.  You're not going to learn policies and general practices.
01:37 < lupine> well, that's not my experience
01:38 < lupine> but I suspect we're not comparing like with like
01:38 < SporkWitch> lupine: want some actual useful experience?  Spin up a server and try to replace the services you use already, e.g. kolab to replace google apps
01:38 < lupine> here, we're specifically interested in the advantages of DIY over certification
01:38 < ananke> for example automated deployments and configuration management. that's not something you learn by using linux
01:38 < phogg> SporkWitch: I presume any curious person would do that.
01:38 < lupine> (or disadvantages, if any exist. I can't think of any, but have bias)
01:38 < lupine> ananke: sure it is
01:38 < SporkWitch> phogg: could, but that's very much NOT the "just use it" he's talking about
01:39 < Arsimael> certificates are just saying "This person had this knowledge at this point" - You learn new things and you forget things.
01:39 < geheimnisse> ya so make a home lab and provision some vms to do load balancing and all that fun shit etc etc
01:39 < phogg> SporkWitch: that's where it starts. First you use it exclusively, then you learn.
01:39 < lupine> Arsimael: no, certification literally says "this person had money at this point"
01:39 < ananke> lupine: clearly we have a different view on what constitutes using something as a daily OS
01:39 < Arsimael> hehe, true
01:39 < lupine> ananke: that's ok, we can bridge the gap using dialogue
01:39 < lupine> and, um, whisky
01:39 < Arsimael> a certificate test here costs ~180€ so what money?
01:40 < phogg> Arsimael: that's dirt cheap, most are much more than that
01:40 < SporkWitch> phogg: the one is totally independent of the other.  You don't need to use it as your daily driver to learn the things you need to work in the enterprise, and using it as your daily driver doesn't do a damn thing in itself to teach you those things either.  You have to go out of your way TO do and learn those things, because if you don't, any fit-for-purpose workstation distro is going to have you
01:40 < lupine> perhaps the difference here lies in what daily activies people tend toward
01:40 < SporkWitch> using it exactly like you do your windows machine, just with fewer crashes
01:40 < lupine> if you're using linux as a glorified web browser server, no, you won't learn anything of interest
01:40 < ananke> I view 'daily OS' as a vehicle for typical daily workload. not means nor a platform for research.
01:40 < Arsimael> phogg, the lessons cost money. Just the testing is quite cheap
01:41 < lupine> if you spend the morning rescuing your mail from a failed drive, on the other hand
01:41 < lupine> now we're talking
01:41 < SporkWitch> Arsimael: depends on the cert, some get pretty expensive
01:41 < phogg> Arsimael: even just the testing I've seen is *typically* 250-500 USD
01:41 < ananke> lupine: problem is, you seem to imply that simple _use_ of linux as a daily OS is equivalent to going the extra mile and researching & testing technologies that are nowhere applicable on a daily OS
01:41 < phogg> Arsimael: some certs require multiple tests, too
01:41 < Arsimael> I had to do the MCP, MCSA, MCSA, CLA and soon the LPIC1,2 and 3 - none of those tests was more than 200€
01:42 < lupine> ananke: it's a fair criticism
01:42 < Arsimael> *MCSA, MCSE
01:42 < lupine> I should've specified something additional, along the lines of drinking the kool-aid
01:42 < phogg> SporkWitch: If you never give up the crutch of your "real" OS then you are probably not really trying.
01:42 < SporkWitch> lupine: except you're never going to encounter that simply by swapping windows for linux and using it as your daily driver.  Encountering that requires you go out of your way to be DOING enterprise type stuff TO learn that stuff, rather than simply using it as normal.  You don't need linux as your daily driver for that; you can learn that just as well with a VM
01:42 < Arsimael> To be honest, I did not have to pay for them so...
01:42 < lupine> there is absolutely no point to linux if it just replicates your daily capitalist experience
01:42 < lupine> the benefit of linux is that it allows - perhaps even encourages - you to step outside that
01:43 < phogg> sometimes requires you
01:43 < SporkWitch> phogg: i've been using linux exclusively for over a decade now; there's not a single thing i've learned applicable in the enerprise that wasn't entirely dependent on my going out of my way to figure out what i need TO learn, and learn it.
01:43 < lupine> m m
01:43 < lupine> ("enterprise" stuffi is actively harmful to everything except one's bank balance, FWIW)
01:43 < SporkWitch> phogg: why?  Because unless you're going out of your way to find out what you should learn and then learn it, it doesn't matter what OS you're on, you're going to be using it fundamentally the same, and none of it's applicable in the enerprise
01:44 < phogg> SporkWitch: I've been using linux for longer than that and I find that there are things which I learned through the normal course of using linux which are applicable in the enterprise.
01:44 < lupine> TBH being enterprise-applicable is more of a punishment than a feature
01:44 < Arsimael> "Enterprise" means it needs to have a paid for support, and it has to have some sort of "standard" so you can use it on very large environments.
01:44 < phogg> SporkWitch: people who stick with Windows will have a bad mental model for how Linux works. That isn't helping.
01:44 < lupine> "oh no, now I know about linux namespaces I'm going to be forced to fix all these stupid docker bugs", etc
01:44 < Arsimael> and the "support" is not there for helping you, it's there to get sued if something fails miserably
01:44 < CodeBug> so is CentOS easy to install like Debian was
01:45 < phogg> CodeBug: All distributions are easy to install these days
01:45 < CodeBug> figure you'd say that
01:45 < garylabronz> normally i run fedora xfce - with i3wm. i want to mix it up, any recommended distros? aiming for small/fast would be running on an older laptop (x230)
01:46 < [R]> garylabronz: distrowatch has a list of major dists
01:46 < triceratux> CodeBug: the dedoimedo guy says yes https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/centos-7-4-upgrade.html
01:46 < Arsimael> I would like to say "Arch" but then I get slapped
01:46 < phogg> CodeBug: I normally do a Debian minimal install via netinst, so my knowledge of how easy it is probably is abnormal. I remember CentOS being about the same, but it has probably gotten easier too...
01:46 < lupine> centos is easy to install, but supports a narrower range of hardware
01:46 < SporkWitch> phogg: i've been using UNIXes and linuxes for coming up on three decades; i said i've been using it EXCLUSIVELY for over a decade (excluding two practical exams in uni, and work that forced me to use windows).  Unless something breaks and you actively TRY to learn, rather than simply getting it working again, you aren't going to learn, especially on modern fit-for-purpose workstation distros.
01:46 < lupine> SporkWitch: only a decade? :(
01:46 < garylabronz> [P]: thanks
01:46 < garylabronz> maybe i'll go BSD :P
01:46 < geheimnisse> garylabronz i have an x240, youll be fine with any modern distro tbh
01:46 < lupine> I swapped exclusively to linux in 2001. life is good
01:46 < phogg> SporkWitch: Apart from work (where I don't always get the choice) I have been using Linux *exclusively* for 16 years. Good enough?
01:46 < geheimnisse> also i use freebsd primarily on my x240
01:47 < garylabronz> oh i expect all distros to work, im not worried about compatibility. more just something different that fedora
01:47 < SporkWitch> lupine: WINE took a complete team change to catch up and be really viable for current games.
01:47 < ananke> the ultimate goal of enterprise is reliability. so yes, it does involve procedures and technologies that many may find mundane or expensive
01:47 < lupine> SporkWitch: I don't really care about people
01:47 < Azrael_-> hi
01:47 < lupine> I don't know where that non-sequitor originates, but since I don't care, all is well
01:47 < phogg> ananke: mostly expensive, because the people who want them have deep pockets
01:48 < [R]> garylabronz: linux is linux
01:48 < SporkWitch> phogg: and i can guarantee that anything you learned was not simply by using it, but by going out of your way to figure things out.  Almost none of it applicable in the enterprise thanks to individual machines being a completely different beast than dealing with hundreds
01:48 < [R]> garylabronz: what do you expect to be different?
01:48 < CodeBug> triceratux,  can I DM?
01:48 < royal_screwup21> what would be the quickest way to rename the files in a folder? I have a bunch of files inside a folder and I want to rename all of them to a name I have in mind
01:48 < phogg> SporkWitch: My typical "just using it" is obviously not the same as yours.
01:48 < SporkWitch> lupine: wasn't a non-sequitur; you asked why only a decade of exclusively using linux, it's because poor WINE support until relatively recently forced dual-booting.
01:48 < lupine> eh? how?
01:49 < SporkWitch> phogg: your "just using it" is obviously not "just using it"
01:49 < Azrael_-> i think about setting up a nas for my windows-desktop. the best thing i came up with was using samba for connecting both. any other suggestions or e.g. ideas how to provide the option to go back in the time on the files on the share?
01:49 < [R]> royal_screwup21: you want to rename all the files to a single name? just delete them all except one
01:49 < phogg> SporkWitch: I set up samba for sharing with other hosts on the LAN. That proved useful in a real enterprise later. Is it abnormal to set up file sharing on a home network? Not part of "just using it"?
01:49 < ananke> royal_screwup21: perhaps 'rename' utility
01:49 < SporkWitch> lupine: because if the thing you want to use doesn't run in WINE, you're left with windows
01:49 < lupine> "oh no people are forcing me to use windows-only software"
01:49 < triceratux> CodeBug: ive got that stuff turned off. the channel is fine
01:49 < lupine> said nobody
01:49 < lupine> ever
01:49 < garylabronz> well like nixos seems a little different, maybe the ideals of the distro. eg debian vs ubunutu
01:49 < CodeBug> lol.
01:49 < ananke> phogg: in enterprise that would be just a piece of the puzzle
01:49 < lupine> my every use of wine is for optional activity
01:50 < clearine> garylabronz: try qubes
01:50 < Arsimael> wasn't nixos using an own language to configure stuff?
01:50 < [R]> Azrael_-: i use dirvish to provide "previous versions" support to windows
01:50 < phogg> ananke: Yes it was, but it was a piece I had experience with. It helped to know something about it already.
01:50 < lupine> most recently, a DX11 game I didn't even enjoy much
01:50 < geheimnisse> tbh if you want to work with linux do fedora because at leasts you will be familiar with environment even if it is not cent/rhel exactly
01:50 < SporkWitch> lupine: what are you even on about? if i want to play DCS (the best, not to mention one of the only even decent, combat flight sims on the market) I need windows.  So yeah, I could skip a great game, or i can suck it up and deal with some windows.  For example.  Regardless, you asked, i answered.
01:50 < phogg> ananke: something I had to learn just to be able to use Linux as my daily OS was valuable in an enterprise environment years later.
01:50 < lupine> obviously, I pirated it to chek
01:50 < lupine> SporkWitch: are you an airline pilot?
01:50 < CodeBug> well i've started a small rioting war in here triceratux over a simple question about linux distros. Mainly CentOS vs Debian vs Ubuntu. I'm looking to be a Linux Sys Admin and get certified and so far i've heard that most certs are useless in favor of exp.
01:50 < ananke> phogg: in enterprise you'd have to tie that with your central authentication system, you'd have craft setup appropriate for the current organizational chart, you'd have to tie in granting/revoking access with your onboarding/offboarding processes, etc
01:51 < SporkWitch> lupine: no, i'm someone that grew up on and loves combat flight sims
01:51 < lupine> sorry, military pilot
01:51 < lupine> right, so this is optional activity
01:51 < SporkWitch> lupine: was USAF, but not a pilot
01:51 < Azrael_-> [R]: this project seems to be dead, no updates since 2014
01:51 < lupine> it is in no sense required of you
01:51 < [R]> Azrael_-: why does it need to be updated?
01:51 < lupine> you simply choose to prioritize enjoyment over principles
01:51 < SporkWitch> lupine: whether it's optional or not is irrelevant; you asked why i didn't use linux exclusively, i told you: if i want to play that game, i had to use windows.
01:51 < phogg> ananke: I tied it to a central authentication system, too (but not at first), because it was easier. Most people won't do that, I admit. For onboarding/offboarding there's not much equivalent.
01:51 < ananke> phogg: while it helps, problem is that this often falls short of what's required. and setting up samba is rather an unusual exercise for a daily driver OS
01:51 < Azrael_-> [R]: fair point :) thanks for the tip, will take a look
01:52 < SporkWitch> lupine: principles aren't a factor, you want to suck stallman's dick that's between you and him.
01:52 < lupine> I'm pretty sure I never asked anything of the kind
01:52 < phogg> ananke: It's really not. I have a file on one computer that I need on another. One computer is a family members' Windows box. What do I do? What does anyone do? Sneakernet?
01:52 < lupine> whatever deviancies you choose to get up to in your own time are up to you
01:52 < garylabronz> i migrated our from ubuntu -> centos
01:52 < garylabronz> our org*
01:52 < SporkWitch> lupine: luckily for your apparently goldfish-like memory, the chat log has your question above
01:53 < Azrael_-> [R]: looks pretty much like rsnapshot
01:53 < SporkWitch> garylabronz: for servers or workstations?
01:53 < lupine> it's ok for me to be sad about something
01:53 < lupine> you shouldn't let that sway your priorities
01:53 < phogg> ananke: keeping in mind that this was in the days before ubiquitous, high-capacity USB flash drives. I could have used CD-Rs a lot, I guess.
01:54 < lupine> you don't even know me beyond random ebcdic utterances
01:54 < garylabronz> servers, everyone uses OSX for workstations
01:54 < lupine> no they don't
01:54 < SporkWitch> garylabronz: good call; ubuntu is a big piggish for servers
01:54 < SporkWitch> s/big/bit/
01:54 < ananke> phogg: in a homogenuous environment it's trival, whether it's osx or windows. mixed environment is a different beast, and these days people tend to use NAS devices. either way, those are tasks beyond _typical_ end user activities
01:54 < phogg> SporkWitch: In 2003 I decided that any game I couldn't run with wine or natively was a game I didn't *really* want to play. It's still true today.
01:55 < SporkWitch> phogg: don't get me started on central auth.  My lastpass vault has more entries for work-related credentials than all of my personal stuff combined.
01:55 < lupine> the ideal solution is to devolve workstation admin to the user
01:55 < lupine> then debian for everything else
01:55 < ananke> phogg: so for a daily os argument, samba setup seems like a great example of what one may learn. problem is, it's an outlier.
01:55 < SporkWitch> phogg: i agree with a few exceptions.  DCS is one of those that's good enough to warrant an exception.  Anything indie or kickstarted? no linux == no money
01:55 < phogg> ananke: I never said they were *typical* end user activities! I was contradicting the assertion that "*NOTHING* I learned as part of just using Linux as my daily OS was applicable to the enterprise." It's not true, I learned a few things (that was one example).
01:56 < phogg> SporkWitch: My online password manager is similarly afflicted. My company requires separate logins to their timesheet, web-HR and email systems.
01:56 < lupine> the vasty majority of the tiem people spend on computers is, simply, wasted
01:56 < SporkWitch> phogg: and what we're saying is that your "normal daily use" is NOT normal daily use, it's explicitly going out of your way to do and learn things that might be applicable in an enterprise environment.
01:56 < ananke> phogg: I'm not sure anybody has made such bold and absolute statement that nothing would be applicable. more like 'vast majority' of tasks on a daily driver OS are not applicable
01:57 < phogg> SporkWitch: I completely disagree. It's normal to share files on a LAN in the home. Absolutely normal, everyone I know does that.
01:57 < phogg> ananke: I am paraphrasing something SporkWitch said.
01:57 < SporkWitch> phogg: makes no sense to me; one of the ONLY "good" things about a windows domain is centralized authentication with LDAP/AD, and it's fairly trivial to get linux systems to auth against AD
01:57 < [R]> phogg: sounds kinky
01:57 < phogg> SporkWitch: It makes perfect sense: they're fuckups.
01:57 < SporkWitch> phogg: the other 99% of the population throws it on dropbox or a flash drive
01:58 < phogg> SporkWitch: *NOW* they do, but not in 2002!
01:58 < SporkWitch> phogg: well yes, that goes without saying; that's what happens when you let managers make tech decisions lol
01:58 < SporkWitch> phogg: in 2002 they emailed them
01:58 < phogg> SporkWitch: That's what you get when you let non-technical people hire sysadmins.
01:58 < Azrael_-> SpoF95_: flash drives? they aren't allowed to put into a machine, too risky to bring some infection!
01:58 < Azrael_-> ups, meant SporkWitch
01:58 < phogg> SporkWitch: Large files? Over dialup? Are you kidding?
01:58 < SporkWitch> Azrael_-: the argument was enterprise-applicable learning in "normal home use of a workstation"
01:59 < lupine> dialup
01:59 < lupine> aka art project
01:59 < lupine> kssssssssssssssssssssh
01:59 < phogg> SporkWitch: the argument was whether "just" switching to Linux for your daily OS would lead to learning anything of use in the enterprise! It did for *me*.
02:00 < SporkWitch> phogg: 1) you've already conceded that now people just use a flashdrive or dropbox, and the entire context of this discussion only makes sense for NOW since this entire argument stems from the suggestion to "just use it on your workstation" NOW to learn useful stuff to be a sysadmin in the real world.
02:00 < jmerizia> quit
02:00 < SporkWitch> phogg: again, what you learned is a result of going out of your way, not normal use
02:00 < phogg> SporkWitch: *our* disagreement stems from the point where I said "I disagree that it can't help, it helped me" and you suggested that it had not.
02:01 < SporkWitch> phogg: 2) in 2002, yes, they typically emailed it or slapped it on a cdr
02:01 < SporkWitch> phogg: you've effectively admitted that it did not, because every example you gave was of going out of your way to learn stuff generally only applicable in a home network.  In an enterprise environment you aren't generally going to be using samba, you're going to be working with NFS or similar CAPABLE solutions
02:02 < phogg> SporkWitch: If you stop trying to imply that I'm saying something untrue about my own experiences then we can be shut of this whole useless debate, I can keep believing that using Linux as your daily OS helps and you can continue believing the opposite.
02:02 < SporkWitch> SMB is a nightmare on a home network, i've never even heard of someone trying to use that garbage at scale
02:02 < phogg> SporkWitch: SMB, or rather CIFS, at scale is terribly normal.
02:03 < [R]> scales?
02:03 < SporkWitch> phogg: i'm saying that your characterization of your experiences is misleading.  You've as much as admitted that you learned by going out of your way to set up things that MIGHT be applicable, that most people don't.
02:03 < phogg> Because Windows clients are also terribly normal.
02:03 < [R]> are you guys drug dealers?
02:03 < geheimnisse> no but i used to do a lot of drugs
02:03 < phogg> SporkWitch: I went out of my way for a lot of things, but not samba. Samba I *had* to do, because my Windows workstation was already normally talking to others on the LAN. I had to keep doing that.
02:04 < ananke> I think we all can agree on is that samba sucks :)
02:04 < SporkWitch> phogg: if you're using SMB, instead of mapped network drives, in an enterprise environment, you are very wrong.
02:04 < geheimnisse> yes f*** samba
02:04 < phogg> SporkWitch: I don't know what you think SMB is, but in Windows "mapped network drives" are using CIFS and if the server is Linux talking to Samba.
02:04 < ananke> every 6 months we have to 'fix' things, because samba introduces backwards incompatible changes
02:04 < phogg> or you maybe installed an NFS client on Windows, but you probably didn't
02:05 < SporkWitch> phogg: and for that matter, even THAT is falling out of favor disturbingly rapidly, being replaced with things like sharepoint (yes, managers actually think sharepoint is a viable replacement for proper shared drives and network-based home folders)
02:05 < geheimnisse> o pardon-moi f*** cifs
02:05 < phogg> SporkWitch: I wish people used Sharepoint as a shared drive! That's all it's good for anyway.
02:05 < SporkWitch> phogg: now you're just trolling; it's abysmal for that or any other purpose
02:05 < phogg> SporkWitch: I keep having to talk people off the ledge where they're talking about building *applications* on top of sharepoint.
02:06 < phogg> SporkWitch: if they *only* wanted to use it as a kind of webdav I'd be much happier.
02:07 < lupine> the clear solution is to not use cifs
02:07 < SporkWitch> phogg: you do realize that Windows is capable of network storage solutions that don't involve the abortion that is SMB, right?
02:07 < phogg> Anyway, it's not samba that sucks. It's Microsoft and their stack of insane protocols. Samba is trying its best to keep up.
02:07 < lupine> users don't, generally speaking, want to use preparation h
02:07 < lupine> they want the burning to cease
02:07 < SporkWitch> no, SMB definitely sucks, MSFT just makes it even worse that it is to begin with lol
02:08 < lupine> if you see the distinction
02:08 < lupine> although devolving all these concerns to the user makes the life of the organisation so much easier
02:08 < phogg> SporkWitch: I didn't say SMB doesn't suck, just that samba doesn't. I would not choose any *other* SMB server implementation.
02:09 < luxio> what are some FLOSS solutions for voice/video chat + screen sharing?
02:09 < phogg> luxio: Depending on what you're doing maybe look at OBS Studio
02:09 < phogg> for the screen sharing part, that is.
02:09 < SporkWitch> phogg: "samba doesn't suck, but the thing it's built around does"; can i use poop instead of potatoes to make your mashed potatoes?  I mean, sure, the poop sucks, but the complete meal doesn't
02:10 < Azrael_-> luxio: if you find something good, please also tell me
02:10 < phogg> SporkWitch: It's not as if samba could do something different, be better and still do its job of supporting those protocols.
02:10 < clearine> luxio: riot
02:10 < geheimnisse> does the poop taste like potatoes?
02:10 < SporkWitch> geheimnisse: i was using his logic.
02:10 < phogg> SporkWitch: You mean to say "SMB sucks, therefore anything supporting it is bad for perpetuating the use of the protocol"
02:10 < geheimnisse> you didnt answer the question
02:10 < dannylee> ask your dog
02:11 < SporkWitch> phogg: if you start with poop as your base, all you're doing is polishing a turd.  If you accept that SMB sucks, then so does samba, by definition.  are there worse implementations?  Probably, but it still sucks.
02:11 < geheimnisse> my dog does not engage in coprophagia
02:12 < treefrob> luxio, I wouldn't look at telegram. it seems too fishy to me
02:12 < SporkWitch> phogg: you could say that, yes, but that's not even the argument i'm making.  i'm pointing out the fact that SMB sucks (which you've acknowledged) and as samba's entire purpose is SMB, it also sucks by the transitive property
02:12 < phogg> SporkWitch: I am not nor have I ever been attempting to defend SMB on any level. I am defending Samba as a wonderful alternative to running Windows servers, or anything else which also supports SMB.
02:12 < SporkWitch> phogg: know a better alternative?  Don't use SMB.
02:12 < phogg> SporkWitch: Sometimes you do not have a choice.
02:12 < geheimnisse> CoprophagicSMBd
02:13 < geheimnisse> it means smbd that eats shit
02:13 < phogg> SporkWitch: you can only choose between suck and fail, so I choose suck. At least it's easier to fix.
02:14 < nolsen> I'm trying to configure my new 5.2Ghz wireless adapter to be used as a portable speedy wifi AP, but I'm only get link speeds of 72Mbps, lower in real world, and I can't find anything recent online on how to tune hostapd for 5Ghz.
02:14 < Azrael_-> phogg: the only small disadvantage of samba was the small security problem recently when acting as ad-server :)
02:14 < SporkWitch> i can't do this anymore; you've repeatedly admitted that what you learned wasn't from normal use
02:15 < phogg> SporkWitch: I have done nothing of the kind. You are having an argument against a straw man.
02:15 < nolsen> SporkWitch: SMB isn't completely awful.
02:16 < nolsen> Windows support for NFS is awful.
02:16 < treefrob> can we talk about how nice the cloud is, or something?
02:16 < lupine> no
02:16 < SporkWitch> nolsen: slow, poor security, nightmare to set up at the best of times, worse in heterogeneous environments, "noisy"
02:16 < lupine> cloud=scum
02:17 < SporkWitch> phogg: that's why i can't keep going with you; you've repeatedly admitted it and STILL CAN"T SEE IT.  There can be no progress made with such a complete and utter lack of self-awareness.
02:17 < SporkWitch> treefrob: the cloud is other people's computers; when you hear someone say cloud, your first reaction should be to punch them squarely in the face
02:17 < treefrob> how about what great things Robert Mugabe has done for Zimbabwe?
02:17 < lupine> my straw is your straw
02:18 < lupine> it's al flammable
02:18 < lupine> treefrob: he's actually done a lot of good to zimbabwe
02:18 < lupine> the issue is that good deeds don't cancel out bad ones
02:18 < lupine> it's not like donating to cancer charities in any sense cancels out choking infants to death
02:19 < royal_screwup21> I have a bunch of folders, each with a few files. I wrote a bash script to ls over all folders like so: https://thepasteb.in/p/mwh1YwDXAK7T5 the problem, it's showing the contents of just one folder, not all of them. What am I doing wrong?
02:19 < treefrob> ok ok, how about the advantages of nuclear proliferation?
02:19 < lupine> none
02:19 < lupine> MAD is nuts
02:19 < lupine> although if the US didn't like me, I'd certainly try to find nukes
02:19 < Arsimael> MAD? the German military secret service?
02:20 < SporkWitch> royal_screwup21: what are you ACTUALLY trying to do? because that script is daft
02:21 < stevendale> Hey
02:21 < phogg> SporkWitch: Because I switched to Linux as my daily OS I had to set up samba to retain the same functionality I had previously had on Windows. Because I did that I was familiar with samba which later proved useful in an enterprise environment. You said "and i can guarantee that anything you learned was not simply by using it, but by going out of your way to figure things out," but in order to "just use" Linux as I had been using Windows I had t
02:21 < phogg> o set up samba. You can gnash your teeth all you like and talk about "going out of my way" and "typical use" but the facts remain. In order for me to continue normal use I needed it, so I learned it. It doesn't matter what most people would have done then, or would do now, or whether SMB is good or bad or whether using file sharing on a home LAN is typical or not, or even whether a user such as myself today would learn a similarly useful thing
02:21 < phogg> today merely as a natural side effect of switching to Linux as a daily OS.
02:21 < stevendale> Nuclear launch detected.
02:21 < CodeBug> how come dd leaves my terminal in a constant blinking cursor state yet my drive that i'm dd'ing to shows empty stilL?
02:22 < sauvin> royal_screwup21, I'd have used find
02:22 < phogg> SporkWitch: tl;dr *stop beating up your straw man*, he's getting thin
02:22 < [R]> CodeBug: what?
02:22 < CodeBug> one sec..using pastebin to show what code i put into my terminal.
02:22 < SporkWitch> phogg: yes, i'm aware that you've convinced yourself that your non-standard use is normal use; this is why this cannot continue.
02:22 < treefrob> royal_screwup21, have a script execute "cd" is something I avoid. Have you ever looked at Perl or Python?
02:23 < phogg> SporkWitch: I didn't *NEED TO* convince myself of that because that is *NOT WHAT I AM TRYING TO CLAIM*.
02:23 < CodeBug> [R], I used sudo dd if=CentOS-7-x86_64-DVD-1708.iso of=/dev/sdd , which sdd is my USB
02:23 < stevendale> SCV ready
02:23 < Arsimael> royal_screwup21, go to the root folder which contains all folder you want to scan and type ~$  find . -type f
02:23 < [R]> CodeBug: ok...
02:23 < SporkWitch> phogg: not an english speaker then, got it; i'll chalk your confusion up to a poor understanding of english
02:23 < ryouma> i'm watching a video on the web, and it is much too soft, even with computer volume at max and video volume at max.  what can i do to increase volume?
02:23 < phogg> SporkWitch: English speaker, born and raised!
02:23 < SporkWitch> phogg: i'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, here
02:23 < CodeBug> yet my terminal asked for pw. I gave it and now its on a separate line blinking and yet my usb is blank still?
02:23 < ananke> CodeBug: how are you determining that the destination drive 'shows empty still'?
02:24 < lupine> nuclear doctrine
02:24 < lupine> if you're not familiar with it, you're not worth discussing the topic with
02:24 < [R]> CodeBug: what do you mean its "blank"
02:24 < CodeBug> I used the files and folders to see what was in the drive
02:24 < phogg> SporkWitch: I cannot be saying anything untrue because I am *merely* providing a narrative of events.
02:24 < stevendale> Wanna piece o' me boi
02:24 < [R]> CodeBug: you can't have somethign mounted if you are ovewriting it with dd
02:24 < CodeBug> nothing is showing written toit.
02:24 < CodeBug> hrm.
02:24 < CodeBug> that makes complete utter sense.
02:24 < threexc> gimme somethin' to shoot
02:24 < SporkWitch> phogg: a narrative that doesn't fall in line with normal use, but entails going out of your way to learn things of questionable enterprise applicability
02:24 < CodeBug> seriously
02:24 < ananke> CodeBug: uhmm, what? you tried to mount the device while dumping blocks to it?
02:24 < CodeBug> :( yes
02:25 < phogg> SporkWitch: *WHO CARES* whether my life events align with normal use?! You keep harping on that, but it's immaterial.
02:25 < ryouma> ok too much xunil here
02:25 < ryouma> goin' to debian channel
02:25 < CodeBug> was trying to copy CentOS dvd iso to the usb and i mounted it
02:25 < CodeBug> :(
02:25 < SporkWitch> phogg: your entire argument hinges on normal use; the entire counter argument is that normal use is not in itself useful, you must go out of your way to teach yourself, which you did and admitted.
02:25 < lupine> normal use is inimical to health and wellbeing
02:25 < lupine> just sayinf
02:26 < phogg> SporkWitch: YOUR argument hinges on normal use. MY argument hinges on a describing a sequence of events.
02:26 < SporkWitch> phogg: then you're trying to shift goalposts, because your clear starting position was "just use linux as your daily driver" (paraphrasing)
02:26 < lupine> SporkWitch: that was my starting position, not phogg's
02:26 < Arsimael> [R], actually... you can mount a drive and dd it....
02:27 < [R]> Arsimael: if you want things to get corrupted, sure
02:27 < lupine> -oremount,ro
02:27 < phogg> SporkWitch: I *recommend* using Linux as your daily OS, because you will be more likely to learn it properly that way. I was attempting to counter your assertion that this won't help by providing an anecdote from my own life describing a case where it did.
02:27 < royal_screwup21> why lupine, why? I was just about to get some popcorn ;)
02:27 < SporkWitch> lupine: if that's the case then i may owe phogg an apology and it would explain the accusation of a strawman.  I was under the impression he was supporting your position.
02:27 < lupine> :p
02:27 < Arsimael> [R], I was not talking about getting a working solution :D
02:27 < phogg> SporkWitch: I am not trying to suggest that my anecdote is typical.
02:27 < ryouma> :)
02:27 < lupine> it's very rare for someone to support my positions
02:27 < geheimnisse> thats what she said
02:28 < lupine> I haven't read everything, but I assume it's not happening here
02:28 < SporkWitch> phogg: then your position is the same; simply using it will not in itself help with the goal.  It requires what you admitted repeatedly: going out of your way to learn
02:28 < lupine> ...going in and out of your way to learn
02:29 < phogg> SporkWitch: I disagree on whether it *requires* going out of your way as a user may find that to accomplish things he would normally do he *MUST* learn, as I found I must. But this is a disagreement only in degree not in material.
02:29 < lupine> it depends on the level of kool-aid you take
02:29 < stevendale> Hi I'm on XP
02:29 < cmj> purple
02:29 < phogg> lupine: I lick the bottom of the cup
02:29 < spammcoin> extra purple
02:29 < stevendale> Does anyone want my public IP
02:29 < lupine> people who use linux as a web browser driver (think chromeos) are in an objectively worse situation than most windows users
02:29 < cmj> welcome to freenode
02:29 < SporkWitch> phogg: your example is decided not a normal user doing what he'd normally do.  a normal user isn't going to bugger about with network file sharing on the LAN.  Your normal user doesn't even do that between windows machines on a LAN, even with the "homespace" thing that started in win7 doing all the heavy lifting
02:30 < lupine> it's easy to say "so don't do that then", but it's not as if they're all listening
02:30 < geheimnisse> purple drank. ima grip and syzzip
02:30 < phogg> lupine: People who forgo understanding how computers work are always in a worse situation than those who do not.
02:30 < cmj> what did i … walk into?
02:30 < SporkWitch> stevendale: we already have it; go to #freenode and request a cloak
02:30 < sauvin> SporkWitch, phogg, it'd be cheaper and probably a lot more fun if you two would buy a couple bottles of champagne and get a room.
02:30 < lupine> mostly rampant priapism
02:30 < geheimnisse> cmj drunk irc on a Sunday
02:30 < lupine> phogg: sure, the point is that linux is not a panacea
02:30 < phogg> SporkWitch: I do not agree with your assessment of what is normal. But, I also try not to pay attention to such things these days.
02:31 < lupine> LaaS is no better than Waas
02:31 < SporkWitch> phogg: reality doesn't require your agreement.
02:31 < phogg> SporkWitch: Reality is as it is perceived.
02:31 < stevendale> SporkWitch xD
02:31 < lupine> its only value is in the opportunities it provides people to escape from capitalism
02:31 < phogg> The majority agreement is real, the minority is crazy
02:31 < lupine> o/
02:31 < stevendale> Have fun with the 1500 ms delay before you get a response for a 64 byte ping
02:31 < SporkWitch> that's not how reality works, but if you think that it does explain a lot
02:32 < phogg> lupine: you should probably not mix whiskey and IRC
02:32 < geheimnisse> lupine my job takes my mind off the ever soul crushing reality of capitalism
02:32 < sauvin> SporkWitch, phogg, get a room.
02:32 < lupine> this isn't whisky
02:32 < SporkWitch> royal_screwup21: i saw several people offer suggestions, but you never answered when i asked what your actual end goal was
02:32 < lupine> it's fram anglesey
02:32 < phogg> SporkWitch: Well now we're in to philosophy, where I acknowledge that there are few agreements. But, what I described is certainly one view.
02:32 < cmj> i came here from #politics to get some fresh air
02:32 < lupine> regardless, it's true
02:32 < sauvin> Solipsism, much? :D
02:33 < lupine> the esr school of linux is bankrupt
02:33 < lupine> the rms school is ascendant
02:33 < phogg> cmj: chose a bad time for it, eh?
02:33 < geheimnisse> Do Support Techs Dream of Dedicated Servers?
02:33 < lupine> no, they dream of KPIs
02:33 < phogg> geheimnisse: No!
02:33 < cmj> phogg: seems so. time for a walk.
02:33 < lupine> 7 minutes/call, etc
02:33 < geheimnisse> phogg i do
02:33 < phogg> cmj: seems like it's wound down, now
02:33 < SporkWitch> well there's not much point continuing a discussion with someone that doesn't admit the existence of reality lol
02:34 < SporkWitch> after all, you're just a brain in a vat and none of us are real lol
02:34 < sauvin> SporkWitch, oh, you are so very young.
02:34 < cmj> i just wanted to point out, whoever is using fresh-off-the-press linux, there has been major intel firmware updates.
02:34 < phogg> SporkWitch: Oh, it exists. Reality is what I perceive, obviously, everybody ELSE is crazy.
02:34 < SporkWitch> sauvin: i rest my case ^ lol
02:34 < sauvin> On what?
02:35 < cmj> so if things aren't working (iwlwifi) get the git firmware code and update /lib/firmware
02:35 < SporkWitch> sauvin: you can't have a meaningful discussion with someone that things perception is LITERALLY reality lol
02:35 < SporkWitch> s/things/thinks/
02:35 < cmj> somewhat old news, but thought i'd share if that comes up
02:35 < cmj> (this week)
02:35 < phogg> SporkWitch: I could demonstrate the truth of this in seven steps, but I think we've had enough for one night.
02:35 < sauvin> If you can't see, hear, taste, touch or smell it, does that mean it doesn't exist?
02:35 < lupine> sauvin: no
02:35 < phogg> sauvin: *maybe*
02:35 < SporkWitch> phogg: the entire position falls apart with a single drop of LSD
02:35 < lupine> we know that many unobservables do exist
02:36 < cmj> i dated a therapist. it 'exists'
02:36 < nolsen> I'm trying to configure my new 5.2Ghz wireless adapter to be used as a portable speedy wifi AP, but I'm only get link speeds of 72Mbps, lower in real world, and I can't find anything recent online on how to tune hostapd for 5Ghz.
02:36 < cmj> ok, about that walk. pax
02:36 < geheimnisse> im at a bar thats playing matchbox 20. i feel like it's 1995 and im at a skating rink
02:36 < phogg> SporkWitch: Not after the third step it doesn't.
02:36 < lupine> further, we have > 5 senses, and technological devices ot increase the range of our sensing further still
02:36 < SporkWitch> nolsen: what standard is it? 802.11G? N? AC?
02:36 < phogg> SporkWitch: anyway, I didn't say it's true necessarily. I said that it's one philosophical view on reality.
02:36 < sauvin> And still I fear we have many depths left to plumb. One of these depths is in our own bad selves.
02:37 < nolsen> SporkWitch: AC
02:38 < nolsen> If I try to set the hw_mode in hostapd to ac, it finds it "invalid"
02:38 < dannylee> there only four type of people...good bad smart an dumb..
02:38 < SporkWitch> nolsen: how many clients to hit that 72Mbps? just one?  when using it in client mode do you get normal AC speeds?
02:38 < nolsen> SporkWitch: It's faster I think when it's client mode
02:39 < lupine> non sequiter par excellence
02:39 < phogg> SporkWitch: If you take 50 people from a warm, beachy part of the world and 50 who live in the arctic circle and ask each one "Is it normal to wear sandals?" You would probably get some disagreement (about half and half). If you sample 90% from the beaches instead you'd get an obvious majority agreement. Is it *objectively true* that wearing sandals is normal, or does it depend on who you ask?
02:39 < SporkWitch> nolsen: how much faster, though?  the 802.11AC radio in my laptop has hit as much as 600Mbps on speedtest with an Asus AC-3100 router almost directly below (one floor down) and a 1Gbps downstream fibre connection
02:40 < nolsen> SporkWitch: That I cannot properly test because of our ancient wireless router.
02:40 < nolsen> So I'm just going to configure one
02:40 < nolsen> instead of buying one
02:40 < nolsen> kek
02:40 < SporkWitch> nolsen: fair enough; suspect it's probably a driver issue if i had to guess, if it's saying AC is invalid
02:40 < nolsen> Though I did leave driver= blank
02:41 < cmj> mac80211?
02:41 < SporkWitch> phogg: holy shit! you mean terrible methodology delivers inaccurate results? who'd ever have guessed?!
02:42 < nolsen> SporkWitch: Right now, hw_mode=a.
02:42 < cmj> speaking of which, there is a speedtest python tool which is fun
02:43 < lupine> related: https://voe.social/system/media_attachments/files/000/088/947/original/15e87e2c11057a46.jpeg
02:43 < cmj> speedtest-cli
02:44 < nolsen> cmj: I have my own internal speedtest, that I built on my server.
02:44 < nolsen> I use it to test the LAN speed.
02:44 < nolsen> s/built/configured
02:44 < cmj> i'm also mentioning to the channel
02:44 < cmj> nolsen: yes|netcat?
02:44 < cmj> ;p
02:45 < nolsen> no
02:45 < nolsen> wait what's netcat
02:45 < nolsen> No I use this https://github.com/adolfintel/speedtest
02:45 < sauvin> Phogg, not everybody can think outside his own box. In fact, very few people can. I'd suggest shelving it.
02:48 < cmj> nolsen: http://deice.daug.net/netcat_speed.html
02:48 < cmj> it's mostly for silly fun
02:48 < cmj> they ship a fancy irc script with netcat too
02:49 < cmj> yes|nc cfms5-p 2222 >/dev/null
02:50 < cmj> anyways. crickets
02:52 < SporkWitch> sauvin: not everyone is interested in a discussion about useless philosophical tripe; that philosophy is all well and good for White Wolf's Mage game and its consensus-defined reality, it has no place in the real world unless we really ARE brains in vats (itself a useless assumption, because if true and we really can't know anything then it's all so much masturbation anyway)
02:53 < LjL> what if i like masturbation
02:54 < SporkWitch> 3 fundamental assumptions: 1) reality exists, 2) it's possible to learn things about reality, 3) models of reality with accurate predictive power are more useful than those without.  If you don't have those, then there's no point discussing it since it's all arbitrary anyway
02:56 < ryouma> i'm trying to figure out what would it mean for reality not to exist here?
02:56 < SporkWitch> ryouma: the usual example is the brains-in-vats thing
02:56 < ryouma> ah
02:56 < ryouma> well i call that reality
02:57 < SporkWitch> ryouma: it goes in line with the whole "it's what you perceive" bunk; if that's the case then it's all pointless because there's nothing stopping the rules from changing arbitrarily or suddenly
02:58 < SporkWitch> ryouma: could argue that the stuff that happens in a dream is reality, by that argument; dreams may be real, as in they are a describable phenomenon that exists, but the stuff happening in them, that you perceive, is not
02:59 < agris> how do you respond to `linux software` vendors that say they will only support their software installed on Ubuntu despite you paying them for support?
02:59 < agris> Their `support` being refusing the do any debugging until i replace prod with Ubuntu
02:59 < SporkWitch> agris: read your SLA
02:59 < SporkWitch> agris: i get customers all the time that want us to support stuff we don't explicitly support; you're welcome to use what you want, but what we support is THIS
02:59 < [R]> agris: i thats what you agreed to...
03:00 < triceratux> agris: be thankful ubuntu exists at all, otherwise the vendor would have no platform to target whatsoever
03:00 < stevendale> Windows 10 should be offered as a free downgrade from Linux
03:00 < stevendale> xD
03:01 < CompanionCube> agris: did you buy knowing they only supported ubuntu knowing you don't use it
03:01 < SporkWitch> agris: if distros other than ubuntu aren't supported by the vendor, your best bet is to be polite and understanding and ask for whatever potentially-useful information they CAN give you.  That's what I usually do when a customer wants to use some device we dont' support: i provide the documentation and configuration instructions for the third-party devices we DO support and give some general
03:01 < SporkWitch> advice / quirks that i've encountered.  It's up to them to try to adapt it to what they're trying to use.
03:01 < agris> I purchased the software reading `Ubuntu Recommended` not Ubuntu mandatory
03:02 < SporkWitch> agris: and it might not be mandatory, but that doesn't mean they SUPPORT other distros.
03:02 < [R]> well, sounds ke you should have talked to them more
03:02 < [R]> before paying for somethign
03:02 < agris> I asked them to at least tell me what the proprietary dump file says is wrong and maybe tell me how to debug the issue myself
03:03 < SporkWitch> youch, you can't even read the crashdump? :(
03:04 < pnbeast> agris, I think I'd respond by saying "your software doesn't do what I need so I'm not paying you for support any more".
03:04 < SporkWitch> if you're unfortunate enough to have a support tech that just clammed up entirely after admitting you weren't on ubuntu, it might be worth opening a new, separate ticket, not mention it, and just ask for what the crashdump says
03:05 < agris> I'm wondering if anyone has any experience dealing with things like this and what they did about it
03:05 < [R]> agris: i've used the supported os
03:05 < SporkWitch> ... did i not just give several examples? lol
03:05 < agris> if there's something easier than firing up radare and attempting to reverse engineer the software
03:05 < [R]> using the supported os...
03:06 < SporkWitch> maybe try putting it in a docker container, if you really can't install a ubuntu host?
03:06 < agris> SporkWitch, good idea
03:07 < SporkWitch> i've given you several good ideas; you seem to have ignored the rest lol
03:09 < agris> SporkWitch, i sent that delayed
03:10 < SporkWitch> agris: just saying, though, you really should read the SLA before paying for support.  It's not feasible for the vendor to test every possible situation.  I work for a VoIP company.  We see customers all the time talking about how headset X doesn't work with the softphone client; okay, that sucks, but we can't test every headset out there, especially since the issue could be the headset, windows
03:11 < agris> yeah, looks like I've learned the hard way this time. =P
03:11 < SporkWitch> itself, or a host of other stuff.  So what do we do?  "do you have a USB-wired headset we can test with?" Make sure it's working there, check a couple known issues (like disabling "exclusive mode" in windows audio settings), and then apologize and direct them to the headset vendor.  We just can't test and support it all, it's not feasible.
03:12 < SporkWitch> (what makes it worse is when the headset vendor says "works with [our product]" and then the customer tries to blame us, as if we're the ones claiming it works, heh; i feel for them, but there's only so much we can do)
03:14 < diogenese> I feel for you
03:18 < rcmaehl_webchat> Okay so can someone explain the beep package RCE issue for me?
03:18 < rcmaehl_webchat> It only affects Debian or it affects all distros?
03:19 < pnbeast> [R], you're a beep package.
03:19 < [R]> pnbeast: your mom was beeping last night
03:20 < SporkWitch> [R]: was it when she was backing up? :P  lol
03:20 < pnbeast> Her battery was low; I forgot to plug her in.
03:20 < [R]> SporkWitch: oh snap
03:20 < rcmaehl_webchat> No like beep is using root access and doing a bunch of denial of service and other sketch stuff
03:21 < rcmaehl_webchat> and I'm trying to see if some of my machines are affected
03:21 < [R]> why do you even have beep installed?
03:22 < rcmaehl_webchat> not gonna lie, shitty musical bash scripts
03:22 < triceratux> [R]: youre an installed beep
03:22  * [R] shakes his head
03:22 < [R]> just assume it's broken
03:22 < [R]> problem solved
03:23 < hratt> Did you do that Zelda thing? Supposed to be a song or something but jus messed up most things
03:24 < [R]> i'm sure its just something idiotic
03:24 < SporkWitch> the only musical scriptiness you need is cat /vmlinuz > /dev/audio
03:24 < rcmaehl_webchat> hratt: I don't have any zelda ones but I do have "Still alive" and Smashmouth
03:25 < hratt> That's actually just made me a little jeleaous
03:28 < dannylee> 2018 is going to be a great years for hackers..maybe a cyber war...
03:31 < stupid-1> i`m just a little bit stupid..you guys are great
03:31 < rcmaehl_webchat> stupid-1: replybait af
03:31 < spammcoin> stupid-1: are you good at cyber?
03:32 < stupid-1> i have a nack with my computer????
03:32 < stupid-1> i`m just working with bash..and i have my boooookss
03:33 < stupid-1> fedora27 is much beter than i thought
03:34 < stupid-1> ttt
03:40 < mknod> Hello
03:41 < mknod> I'd need a few people to run a command on their favorite terminal emulator
03:41 < sauvin> Like what?
03:41 < mknod> It will print out the escape sequences for a selection of terminfo capabilities
03:42 < mknod> (along with the terminal used)
03:42 < mknod> Need this for my current project
03:42 < sauvin> And what's that?
03:42 < mknod> { printf '%s / %s %s\n' "$TERM" "$TERM_PROGRAM" "$TERM_PROGRAM_VERSION"; curl -sL "https://git.io/vx7tn" | while read || [[ $REPLY ]]; do printf '%s\t\t%s\n' "$REPLY" "$(tput "$REPLY" 2> /dev/null | od -ta | awk 'NR==1 {$1=""; print}' | sed -e 's/ //g')"; done; }
03:43 < sauvin> Jeebus, that's baroque.
03:43 < mknod> nothing fishy, as you can see
03:45 < ananke> mknod: I'm not sure how far you're going to get without a simple 'please'...
03:45 < mknod> Ok, I got interrupted by sauvin's question, my apologies
03:46 < mknod> s/k/h
03:46 < Thesaurus> looks pretty fish tbh
03:46 < mknod> so, PLEASE, anyone willing to report the output?
03:47 < mknod> if you cannot understand it, don't run it
03:47 < Thesaurus> curl and then a URL... I think I'll pass
03:48 < [R]> what else would you expect curl to do?
03:48 < mknod> (lol)
03:48 < sauvin> I'd expect it to put some additional curvature into my short and curlies.
03:49 < nai> > if you cannot understand it, don't run it
03:49 < nai> okay just give me a few weeks
03:50 < jellyb> is that a bitcoin miner
03:50 < agris> mknod, are you doing something similar to Debian's popcon?
03:50 < nai> i bet it's a lisp interpreter
03:51 < mknod> agris, I don't use Linux and I don't know what Debian's popcon is
03:51 < [R]> nai: is that to help you understand people with lisps?
03:51 < ayecee> a lithp interpreter
03:52 < [R]> mknod: you dont use linux, yet you expect us to trust you to run some random command?
03:52 < mknod> I explained above what that command does, feel free to move away if you have no clue what it's all about
03:52 < mknod> [R], did you know that mac os is unix based?
03:52 < nai> ok mknod i ran it on urxvt: https://up.nai.im/output.txt
03:52 < [R]> mknod: and?
03:53 < mknod> nai, thanks.
03:53 < Thesaurus> doesn't macOS have like version 3 of bash?
03:53 < Sveta> mknod, do you have the ability to run linux on a live usb or in a virtual machine?
03:54 < sauvin> Thesaurus, I believe so, yes.
03:54 < cmj> bash4
03:55 < Thesaurus> @cmj really?  Timmy C stepping up his game
03:55 < mknod> Sveta, probably, but it's really not worth the hassle
03:56 < Thesaurus> running a sketchy looking script someone posted on IRC probably isn't worth the hassle
03:56 < Sveta> mknod, how much time have you got for this task?
03:56 < ayecee> better complain about it
03:57 < mknod> Sveta, I've already spent too much time on this. Especially here.
03:57 < stevendale> :P
03:57 < ayecee> i agree
03:57 < stevendale> Hi Sveta bro, what's up
03:58 < sauvin> Yea, Sveta, bro, how they swingin'? :D
03:58 < Sveta> mknod, tell me two things. Or three. Have you got a usb, how long does it take you to download a file from https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop, and how much time have you truly got?
03:59 < Thesaurus> you posted the script less than 20 minutes ago and you're out of time?  are you in some chinese prison with a gun to your head farming wow gold?
03:59 < stevendale> Microsoft made some good games over the years... Mech Warrior... Halo Combat Evolved
03:59 < [R]> Thesaurus: is that still a thing?
03:59 < Arsimael> stevendale, Age of empires, Freelancer
04:01 < Arsimael> anyways
04:01 < Arsimael> good night everyone
04:01 < stevendale> Gn :)
04:01 < Thesaurus> I don't think it's as big as it used to be, Blizzard lets you actually buy in game time with gold now so they use that as a way to control the economy.
04:01 < [R]> that's what she said
04:04 < Thesaurus> what's your guys favorite color schemes in gedit?
04:04 < stevendale> 1551892 inbound packets on XP \o/
04:04 < sauvin> Thesaurus, light white on black.
04:04 < stevendale> Got a BSOD after that much downloading...
04:06 < nai> > gedit
04:10 < Thesaurus> rough crowd
04:10 < mknod> anyone else familiar with more than one command here?
04:11 < ayecee> only if it includes please
04:11 < Thesaurus> I ONLY know curl, never used anything else sorry
04:12 < pnbeast> mknod, I learned "ls" and "cp", today.  That's TWO commands!
04:12 < diogenese> I only know the one
04:12 < nai> I only know cat
04:12 < spammcoin> NOOBS
04:12 < nai> Can do everything with it
04:12 < pnbeast> Is it a useless cat?  I heard they're useless, or something like that.
04:12 < [R]> pnbeast: cats are majestic...
04:13 < ayecee> ask any cat
04:13 < stevendale> I only know 'mem' in cmd.exe
04:13 < pnbeast> Just the big ones in the animal park.  The little ones in the kitchen lose their luster once you have to clean the litter box.
04:14 < pnbeast> cucksmex, do you do anything except change your nick every once in a while?
04:14 < cucksmex> hi
04:14 < spammcoin> anyone know someone with two first names that is not a noob?
04:14 < cucksmex> it keeps reverting
04:14 < [R]> pnbeast: i have an automatic box
04:14 < cucksmex> i'll fix it
04:15 < pnbeast> [R], well, okay, your cat is probably not useless, then.  It keeps the machinery churning.
04:15 < [R]> well right now hes staring at me
04:15 < [R]> i'm asking him to come over
04:15  * pnbeast imagines the annual oiling of the gears in that machine is no fun.
04:15 < [R]> its not too bad
04:15 < [R]> the motors are all self contained
04:16 < [R]> although one finally died
04:16 < [R]> its been liek 6 years or so
04:16 < pnbeast> What if it starts up when the cat is, uh, you know...
04:16 < [R]> so its designed to run 24/7
04:16 < [R]> its very slow
04:16 < pnbeast> Does that get messy really quickly?
04:16 < [R]> so it doesnt bother them
04:16 < pnbeast> Oh.
04:17 < sauvin> I've got a few first names, such as Benoit, Wieland, Alain, Jacques and Rolf. Still a n00b, though.
04:17 < [R]> https://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-Simply-Self-Cleaning-Automatic-Clumping/dp/B000GF0X38/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1523240214&sr=8-8&keywords=petsafe+litter
04:17 < [R]> tahts what i use
04:17 < [R]> i actually have it on a timer that makes it run only 4 times a day
04:17 < [R]> but like an hour
04:17 < [R]> for like*
04:17 < Thesaurus> I guess it's better for the environment than singer sewing oil
04:18 < pnbeast> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41NC25lb00L._AC_SR160,160_.jpg  <--  SEE?  That one's eating the whole cat!!
04:18 < pnbeast> Looks very dangerous.
04:19 < [R]> rofl
04:19 < [R]> wtf
04:19 < [R]> "the installer failed to dwonload the key"
04:19 < [R]> yet i see no attempt by the installer to download it in the logs
04:21 < Thesaurus> my friend's mom went a little crazy and they're up to 8 cats now, those machines can't handle that kind of volume
04:21 < [R]> lol
04:23 < SporkWitch> Thesaurus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ELMKkHEDU
04:25 < mknod> nai, mind to test two other capnames please? `tput -S <<< $'cbt\nkcbt' | od -ta` will be enough
04:25 < [R]> AHA
04:25 < [R]> it's hitting the apt cacher
04:25 < [R]> and the apt cacher is like "screw you"
04:25 < sauvin> mknod, what's wrong with setting up a few VMs with different operating systems and environments?
04:25 < mknod> basically everything.
04:26 < [R]> lol
04:28 < dannylee> there are a high rick for a cyber war in july 2018 and news years january 1st 2019...but we hope it don`t happen///
04:29 < agris> Will there be any key signing parties in Portland anytime soon?
04:29 < agris> I'd really like to get my person key in the web of trust
04:29 < dannylee> china and india and russia..against europe an the us
04:30 < SporkWitch> agris: you might want to specify which portland; i know of two in the US and they're 3000 miles apart lol
04:30 < agris> SporkWitch, the big one in Oregon
04:30 < SporkWitch> so not the lovely lobster-filled one in maine
04:30 < [R]> sounds dirty
04:31 < ananke> [R]: no, the oregon one is dirty
04:31 < [R]> 'key signing party'
04:31 < [R]> isn't portland oregon just full of damn dirty hippies?
04:31 < ananke> pretty much. I'll take lobsters over hippies any day
04:31 < agris> Linus lives there doesn't he?
04:32 < SporkWitch> agris: EXACTLY
04:32 < [R]> Residence	Dunthorpe, Oregon, United States[1]
04:33 < SporkWitch> still, the filthy commie WOULD live near hippie central
04:33 < SporkWitch> :P
04:34 < [R]> lol
04:34 < agris> I can't seem to find any on Calagotar, which is what linux users in Portland seem to use
04:34 < SporkWitch> (and don't say he's not! he's dictatorial, and it doesn't get much more communist than FOSS :P)
04:35 < Thesaurus> I'm sure someone at your local linux users group could sign for you
04:35 < agris> oh gawd
04:35 < [R]> sounds very intimate
04:35 < agris> lol
04:35 < [R]> woudl you want just any old random stranger siigning your key before you get to know them?
04:36 < SporkWitch> [R]: as long as i have multiple forms of id, with photos, sure
04:36 < agris> I would really like to get a signature from a Debian developer
04:36 < Thesaurus> seems kind of oxymoronic
04:37 < SporkWitch> https://www.xkcd.com/364/
04:38 < agris> that's great SporkWitch
04:39 < SporkWitch> agris: randall's been at it a while; he's got one for almost any occassion :P lol
04:51 < nai> mknod: i was on phone, send the command again if you still need it
04:51 < mknod> thanks nai, much appreciated
04:51 < mknod> tput -S <<< $'cbt\nkcbt' | od -ta
04:51 < mknod> forgot those two earlier
04:54 < nai> here you go https://up.nai.im/output2.txt
04:55 < mknod> did you get something on stderr?
04:55 < nai> no
04:56 < mknod> that's fine, i'm done with bothering you
04:56 < nai> no worries lol
04:57 < nobrain> we are billing you the full hour anyway
04:58 < nai> s/hour/day/
04:58 < [R]> nai: EXTREME ROUNDING
05:00 < sauvin> $150/hr, four hour minimum, prorated thereafter on five minute granularity.
05:00 < nai> rounding to the superior <life expectancy of the client>
05:00  * SporkWitch accepts pizza and beer
05:01 < nai> sauvin: english please
05:01 < sauvin> That WAS English. I'm too tired to consider my wording.
05:01 < Dr_Coke> triceratux
05:01 < nai> sauvin: don't you get jokes
05:01 < Dr_Coke> Sveta
05:02 < sauvin> Guessing "too tired" was a bit subtle.
05:02 < Dr_Coke> You should have seen this guy this morning out near the farms a while out of sydney
05:02 < Dr_Coke> busy as in peak hour
05:02 < nai> sauvin: wake up
05:02 < Dr_Coke> im coming along a bit back but the other side has traffic going at like 80 to 100km/h
05:03 < pankaj> Why is that most of the Linux distributions use systemd as their system process manager whereas only few like only ubuntu use 'upstart'. What are pros and cons of it.
05:03 < Dr_Coke> and this person drives this gold buggy like thing for the farm flat out across the road in the little space in front of cars and trucks coming at 80 to 100kms per hour
05:03 < Dr_Coke> lol
05:03 < [R]> pankaj: ubuntu has switched to systemd ages ago
05:03 < Dr_Coke> I thought that's a good way to commit sucide
05:04 < nai> doesn't ubuntu use systemd now?
05:04 < Dr_Coke> golf buggy thing
05:04 < pankaj> [R]: Sorry, May be I was reading an older article.
05:04 < [R]> you probably are
05:04 < pankaj> [R]: Is their any other using upstart?
05:04 < [R]> robaly not
05:05 < [R]> its dead
05:05 < sauvin> As I understood it last time I saw it being discussed, Debian and Ubuntu use systemd with overlays or hooks to older structures.
05:06 < agris> is it supported to not use systemd in Debian?
05:06 < agris> i remember it was a big deal a few years ago
05:06 < nai> yeah like "service" is basically a glorified alias to systemctl
05:06 < [R]> well there is devuavian
05:06 < [R]> or whatever the hell that nonsense fork is
05:06 < agris> nonsense fork?
05:07 < Sveta> Nonsense forks are the best.
05:07 < agris> can i replace systemd with OpenRC and have it supported on Debian?
05:07 < sauvin> Devuan, I think it is. There's a channel for it on Freenode.
05:08 < [R]> agris: what does "have it supported" even mean
05:09 < agris> like, is there a reason there is a whole nother distribution, vs following https://wiki.debian.org/OpenRC
05:09 < [R]> what?
05:10  * triceratux sticks a nonsense fork in [R] to see if hes done
05:11 < Dr_Coke> triceratux
05:11 < Dr_Coke> the cars and trucks were coming at like 60mph
05:12 < Dr_Coke> and this person darted flat out in front of them going across the road
05:12 < Dr_Coke> it was so close he almost got collected
05:13 < Dr_Coke> this is at like 8:30am in the morning
05:13 < Dr_Coke> I've never seen anything like it lol
05:13 < Dr_Coke> suicide mission
05:13 < Dr_Coke> lol
05:13 < Dr_Coke> it was funny to watch being a bit back
05:14 < Dr_Coke> I thought this guys going to get collected
05:14 < Dr_Coke> but he made it
05:14 < Dr_Coke> just
05:14 < Dr_Coke> lol
05:14 < Dr_Coke> I tell you what that woke me up this morning
05:19 < Dr_Coke> by the way nobody in the cars slammed their brakes on for him either
05:20 < Dr_Coke> lol he would been collected big time
05:21 < pankaj> [R]: If 'init' starts serially then what about systemd?
05:21 < [R]> pankaj: what?
05:22 < jim> the cars mainly played music
05:22 < nai> "serially" ?
05:22 < pankaj> [R]: What is the execution sequence of systemd?
05:22 < [R]> sequence?
05:23 < nai> kernel calls /sbin/init which is a link to systemd, that's it
05:23 < jim> start, go, stop?
05:24 < jim> I dunno myself, I imagine it has a lot of sequences depending on what it's doing
05:27 < Sitri> pankaj: Dependency-based startup (daemon-tools, runit, openrc, minit and systemd) are usually still serially, but because they have dependency trees they can run a few things simultaniously.
05:29 < pankaj> Sitri: OK. I think I am late for going to some place. Thanks for help
05:33 < jim> daemontools is dependency based?
05:36 < [R]> demon tool
05:36 < Sitri> Ah derp, no it isn't.  It does supervise though (which the rest of them do as well)
05:47 < jim> I used it on one thing, so I wouldnt have known
05:50 < cmj> heh
05:55 < nai> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/arch/hexagon/kernel/head.S#L221
05:55 < nai> lol'd
05:57 < cmj> how many files were updated this week?
05:57 < cmj> rhetorical. thousands. and things are getting crazy.
05:59 < nai> 90% of the universe's generated entropy is coming from the linux kernel source code
05:59 < stevendale> My HDD has 35,068 files and 1,061 folders
06:00 < nai> define "file"
06:00 < stevendale> Non-symlink
06:00 < stevendale> And non-hardlink
06:01 < stevendale> I'll pastebin my installed programs, need a couple of minutes though
06:02 < nai> is /dev/sda a file?
06:02 < stevendale> Nope
06:02 < nai> is /proc/self/fd/0 a file?
06:03 < nai> are /sys/class/*/* files?
06:06 < nai> are you a file?
06:07 < luxio> when I type `ping 1.1`, how does that ping 1.0.0.1?
06:07 < luxio> how is it converting that?
06:09 < nai> that's interesting
06:09 < nai> type "drill 1.1"
06:09 < iflema> ping 1.1.0.2
06:09 < sauvin> It's UNIX. Everything is a file. :D
06:10 < nai> hence my question
06:10 < nai> is love a file too?
06:11 < sauvin> /proc/$$/fd/0 is something relating to a file handle, STDIN if I'm not mistaken.
06:11 < iflema> hug.h
06:12 < nai> yep it's the current process' stdin file descripto
06:12 < nai> s/$/r/
06:12 < sauvin> Depending on how you want to look at it, /dev/sda IS a file.
06:12 < ryouma> nai: make: *** No rule to make target 'love'.  Stop.
06:12 < nai> i technically is
06:12 < nai> s/i/it/ goddammit
06:13 < nai> ryouma: no rule? i like that
06:13 < stevendale> nai: https://pastebin.com/DYdg370C
06:13 < stevendale> My installed programs
06:13 < stevendale> Typed by hand
06:13 < sauvin> As much as I sometimes grump at people for SMS-style English, typo is a fact of online life. :D
06:14 < ryouma> typos* are too!
06:15 < nai> stevendale: how is that interesting to me
06:15 < stevendale> nai: I'm just really bored o3o
06:15 < nai> install linux
06:16 < nai> cat /var/lib/portage/world
06:16 < nai> pacman -Qqe
06:17 < stevendale> Maybe when the Linux kernel has built in support for executing exes, I'll consider it uwu
06:17 < nai> god why
06:20 < jim> stevendale, there are modules you can insert which support a particular executable format (and scripting is one of those)... I guess you could write a module that supports .exes... but then, there is the issue of which libs it needs... are you sure you'll need to execute microsoft binaries
06:20 < jim> ?
06:20 < nai> jim: are you reinventing wine
06:21 < jim> well then if worst comes to worst, he could run wine
06:21 < nai> i mean wine under linux is still better than windows, but still
06:22 < stevendale> Wine under Linux also uses more system resources than booting into XP and playing games that way
06:23 < jim> I guess you could also part it out... wine comes with some kind of lib support for win binaries, and you could still move the support in wine for those executables to a linux mod8ule
06:24 < jim> it would be wine still, but not as we presently know it
06:24 < stevendale> Actually that sounds like it could make wine even better
06:25 < NERD-k> Hello, I use the Fedora27. It always give me the track message `Failed to receive SOCKS4 connect request ack.` when use git clone or curl etc...
06:25 < stevendale> If wine can interact with the hardware at a kernel level, then it could run DirectX as well, instead of translating calls to OpenGL
06:25 < jim> well it would just be moving existing stuff around
06:25 < hawat> I can only boot into rescue mode, where I can mount the filesystem.  How do I fix a boot which just hangs?  I've tried appending "text" and the boot always fails, but at different points each time.
06:26 < jim> NERD-k, could it be a lib is missing?
06:26 < NERD-k> What is the problem??? I check out my setting file, .bashrc .bash_profile and /etc/bashrc, it has no set to socks
06:27 < NERD-k> I need sock5, but not sock4
06:27 < NERD-k> I am using sock5
06:27 < jim> maybe curl/git use socks4?
06:28 < stevendale> Sadly that's not going to be realistic unless we have a miracle like ReactOS, since DirectX itself is mostly closed source... (apart from some maths modules...)
06:28 < NERD-k> I set: git config proxy.http socks5:127.0.0.1:1080
06:28 < NERD-k> I even use: unset ALL_PROXY
06:29 < jim> stevendale, linux -is- useful on its own, without any closed source stuff (maybe other than some firmware files for devices)
06:31 < jim> hawat, if you can be specific about exactly what you did to try to fix things, that could be helpful...
06:32 < jim> hawat, this might be of help to communicate some of those things: you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command by running "anArbitraryCommand | nc termbin.com 9999", and to include error messages, "anArbitraryCommand 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999"
06:33 < hawat> I commented out GRUB_TERMINAL and commented the line with quiet splash
06:36 < jim> does the boot process (or running the dmesg executable) say anything about what happened to the boot?
06:36 < hawat> the boot always hangs at a different point
06:36 < sysRPL> hi, does anyone here use cinnamon? it has a built in screen recorder, but for the life of me i cannot find any information anywhere about this built in recorder supporting audio
06:36 < sysRPL> does anyone know if it does?
06:38 < hawat> I have no way of putting dmesg output into pastebin.  It says Found RAPL....front mic as... front headphone as...there's an error:  radeon erro no UMS support in radeon file.    that UMS error is the only error I see at the moment.
06:38 < iflema> hawat: any other OS on this machine? is it old and dirty?
06:38 < sysRPL> does anyone know if it does? because everything i record with it is video only. and i see no settings anywhere
06:38 < hawat> iflema: no other os.  yeah. old and dirty.  (the machine)
06:39 < iflema> hawat: is it over heating? Can you hear/feel the fans?
06:40 < iflema> hawat: () as oppesed to?
06:40  * iflema penis
06:40 < hawat> it's very very quiet.  I booted it yesterday by appending "text $vt_remote" from editing grub after POST.  that's not working at the moment.  It worked fine.  The fans are quiet, I've never heard them.
06:41 < iflema> hawat: what happens when it "goes"
06:41 < hawat> failing hardware?  cpu?  something else?
06:41 < iflema> maybe
06:42 < hawat> I don't have sensors installed.  can I re-install grub?  I mean, if I can boot to grub rescue...missing steps...boot regular?
06:42 < iflema> heat or HDD?
06:43 < hawat> I'm guessing HDD failure.  I don't hear any fans.  plus, used it for a few hours just yesterday.  SMART? some diagnostic there?
06:43 < iflema> its just the seeminly random timming...
06:44 < iflema> g
06:44 < iflema> is that even a word
06:44 < iflema> yep
06:44 < iflema> heh... school
06:45 < Bashing-om> hawat: What is the performance like from a liveUSB/DVD ? While there run a file system check .
06:45 < hawat> ah, I haven't done that yet.  I'll have to try tomorrow.  It's ubuntu.  Use an Ubuntu disk?  It's live.  Or would something else be more suitable?
06:46 < smallNERD> Hello, Sorry.I just go away a while for get packet.
06:46 < Bashing-om> hawat: ubuntu will do the job nicely .
06:48 < smallNERD> jam, what are you think about my problem
06:48 < smallNERD> jam: Sorry.I just go away a while for get packet.
06:50 < smallNERD> NERD-k
06:51 < sauvin> Bashing-om, a great deal of the answer to your question depends on how much RAM you have.
06:52 < smallNERD> jim, Sorry.I just go away a while for get packet.
06:52 < smallNERD> what are you think about my problem?
06:53 < sammm> hey all, i have a text file with info over multiple lines, what is the best way to use awk and be able to { print $1(from first line matched); print $somethingfromsecondline }, i'm trying to process this file into a CSV
06:55 < sauvin> sammm, is the structure of the file uniform throughout?
06:55 < Bashing-om> sauvin: Sorry, I have a gap in comprehension - what has ram got to do with a failure to complete booting ( hawat ) ?
06:55 < hawat> I don't think it's ram.  but, sure, maybe.  I figure it's a GRUB problem.  but that's a big maybe.
06:55 < sauvin> Bashing-om, nothing. I saw your question about live USB or DVD boot out of context.
06:55 < sammm> sauvin: yes it is
06:56 < hawat> thanks guys
06:56 < Bashing-om> sauvin: :) Always nice to have you at my back .
06:56 < sauvin> sammm, is there a distinctive record separator line or "first line of block" marker?
06:58 < sammm> sauvin: there is! I can easily match it with awk, it's the multiline that's killing me
06:58 < smallNERD> LOGOUT
07:00 < sauvin> sammm, yeah, it would kill me, too, since I don't know awk. When I did this before (in another language), I'd read a line, see if it's a start of block, flush old block, shove new line all the following lines onto block queue until another first-line-of-block came up.
07:02 < donught> hey, Im having a problem with setting colors on applications that use xrdb. after a -Syu and restart all my colors are wacky and arent setting to the real color it should be. like the solarized bg color is pink  #002b36 is being displayed as #FB02CD
07:03 < donught> im on arch
07:03 < sauvin> sammm, some languages allow for reading multiline things like this in a single regular expression, but that's not something I've ever gotten into.
07:03 < sauvin> I believe awk is one of them, though.
07:04 < NERD-k> Hello, how to close Fedora all proxy
07:05 < [R]> NERD-k: what?
07:05 < sammm> sauvin: ah, well thanks for your input, if i fugire it out i'll let ou know
07:06 < NERD-k> Emmm, I am using SOCKS5 proxy, but get this track message:Failed to receive SOCKS4 connect request ack.
07:06 < [R]> "track message"?
07:07 < sauvin> [R], I think he's Chinese. Don't be an ass.
07:07 < [R]> well if he says things that make no sense
07:07 < [R]> what else is supposed to happen/
07:07 < sauvin> The fact that you can't make sense of it doesn't mean it makes no sense.
07:08 < NERD-k> My english ins not good
07:08 < [R]> well i could just randomly guess what he means...
07:08 < [R]> i think he needs to just reinstall
07:08 < [R]> see how easy that is
07:08 < NERD-k> HEHE
07:08 < sauvin> Reinstall what? NERD-k, can you describe what you're doing when you get this "track message"?
07:08 < iman> Hi, how can I find the  source code of "ps" in https://git.kernel.org/ ?
07:08 < NERD-k> I am foolish??
07:09 < [R]> iman: what makes you think it's there?
07:09 < iman> [R]: isn't part of the kernel ?
07:09 < sauvin> NERD-k, nope. I'm yelling at [R] for being an ass towards folks whose English isn't very good. This is an international channel, not everybody is going to have really good English.
07:09 < [R]> iman: no
07:09 < [R]> iman: random binaries are not part of the kernel
07:09 < [R]> sauvin: it has nothign to do with knowing english
07:09 < [R]> it has to do with saying phrases that make no sense
07:10 < sauvin> Says the guy who can't even manage ONE language.
07:10 < [R]> sauvin: and you're the only one being an ass
07:10 < NERD-k> the proxy still make sense in GUI--I can GOOGLE in Chromium, But make no sense in TUI
07:10 < sauvin> NERD-k, what are you using in TUI that's triggering this message?
07:11 < iman> [R]: you were right, thanks dude https://gitorious.org/procps
07:11 < NERD-k> I don't know why it become proxy SOCK4
07:11 < NERD-k> sauvin, Terminal
07:11 < NERD-k> curl, git clone, etc..
07:12 < sauvin> Yeah, got that. Betting you've set up a proxy in Chromium but not anywhere else.
07:12  * iflema International does not come to mind when thinking about this channel...
07:13 < sauvin> iflema, thinking more like "menagerie"? :D
07:13 < iflema> more like clusterfuck
07:13 < sauvin> That would be "fustercluck" if you don't want to get hit over the head with a language poicy.
07:13 < sauvin> policy, even.
07:14 < iflema> google it
07:14 < sauvin> I know what the term means. Do you understand the term "language policy"?
07:14 < NERD-k> sauvin, I think something wrong in TUI,
07:14  * iflema [R] [R] [R] [R] [R]
07:15 < NERD-k> Maybe i set something wrong
07:15 < NERD-k> But I use: unset ALL_PROXY, it still give me that message
07:16 < sauvin> NERD-k, I've never done proxies and so can't help, but I'm pretty sure browsers can have their own proxy setups and suchlike, and setting them wouldn't necessarily help any OTHER application.
07:16 < hawat> I typed "e" to edit GRUB boot.  by appending:                 text $vt_handoff 3                     I was able to get a text mode login.   I logged it, but see messages, after entering password like:  NIM watchdog:  detected hard lockup  rcu_sched detected stalls on cpu  rcu_sched kthread starved for 14999 jiffies!
07:16 < [R]> hawat: sounds like hardware problems
07:16 < sauvin> NERD-k, you might try asking in ##networking; they oughta know something.
07:17 < hawat> yeah, that's my concern.
07:17 < NERD-k> sauvin, Oh, Thanks, I gonna to ask them
07:17 < sauvin> yeah, hawat, that might be hardware trouble or maybe a goofed up kernel.
07:17 < hawat> let's assume kernel, because it was booting fine yesterday.  I mucked for hours, then got it to boot.  assuming kernel, how do I fix?
07:17 < [R]> you "mucked"?
07:18 < sauvin> Dunno; when I've got a goofed up kernel, I revert to an older kernel and wait for the Debian and/or Ubuntu folks to fix their crap on the next round of updates.
07:19 < hawat> well, it took a while to get into rescue mode.  then mount file system.  I tried some changes with /etc/default/grub, update-grub, variations.   editing grub during boot, etc.  like twenty boots.  finally "worked".  but not today.
07:19 < sauvin> hawat, what distro are you on?
07:19 < [R]> yousaidd it was fine
07:19 < [R]> what did you to do make it not fine?
07:20 < hawat> [R]: if I knew what I did, LOL.  or, maybe it was nothing I did.  Just random that it worked once out of twenty times.  I'm on Ubuntu.
07:21 < sauvin> On what kind of hardware?
07:21 < hawat> I'll have to boot into rescue mode.  it's old.
07:22 < sanroot> Sanroot Bot:
07:22 < sanroot> Canera mai hi aza
07:22 < sanroot> Waha fazal hau
07:22 < sanroot> Paka dega
07:22 < sauvin> sanroot, we speak English here.
07:23 < sanroot> sorry i meant to paste in another channel
07:23 < sauvin> Ahah!
07:24 < NERD-k> Only English here? So difficult for us.
07:24 < NERD-k> 中文
07:24 < iflema> NERD-k: watch the good english and bad advice
07:25 < hawat> the cpu:  Xeon E3-1200/2nd Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) Processor Family    but I don't have the sensors package installed.  I doubt it's overheating, but maybe.
07:26 < AndroidKitKat> can i ask i3 questions here?
07:26 < sauvin> AndroidKitKat, why not?
07:27 < AndroidKitKat> no idea, just know this isnt #i3wm
07:27 < AndroidKitKat> im not sure i quite understand how to change the way the windows tile after they are made
07:27 < AndroidKitKat> for example, i have a terminal and chrome open
07:27 < AndroidKitKat> side by side
07:28 < kavity> What would be the best way to start a program right away after boot? Cron?
07:28 < [R]> kavity: what type of program
07:29 < kavity> My ircd/services, and seafile/seahub.
07:29 < [R]> an init script
07:29 < kavity> K.
07:29 < kavity> Thanks.
07:29 < hawat> sauvin: he cpu:  Xeon E3-1200/2nd Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) Processor Family    but I don't have the sensors package installed.  I doubt it's overheating, but maybe
07:31 < iflema> so not a laptop
07:31 < iflema> :D
07:31 < Bashing-om> hawat: cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp . The output is in milli-degrees Celcius .
07:31  * sauvin doesn't even know what a "NIM watchdog" is
07:31 < [R]> hawat: one should never never doubt, what no one is sure of
07:32 < drb1> would this be compatible with xfce? https://www.xfce-look.org/p/1016677/
07:32 < drb1> It's the SugarLike theme based off of Sugar Sugar
07:32 < [R]> drb1: well its on the xfce website
07:32 < [R]> so my guess is no
07:32 < [R]> its not compatible with xfce
07:33 < alexey-nemovff> lol
07:33 < drb1> I don't have time for smart asses
07:33 < iflema> its over 8 years old
07:34 < drb1> yes, but has the code really changed much?
07:34 < drb1> most of what i've seen on the site is pretty crappy
07:34 < iflema> about as long ago as I last used
07:35 < Pentode> it'll work.
07:35 < iflema> look ok
07:35 < drb1> I can't get it to work lol Pentode
07:35 < drb1> I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't work with xfce
07:35 < Pentode> maybe it's not installed properly
07:36 < Pentode> i actually _have_ that theme installed
07:36 < drb1> well, i downloaded it, extracted it
07:36 < drb1> and moved it to the /usr/share/icons/
07:36 < Pentode> thats not the right folder
07:36 < Pentode> it needs to be in ~/.themes or /usr/share/themes/
07:36 < Pentode> ^ the latter on _most_ machines
07:36 < drb1> oh, i thought it was just icons
07:37 < Pentode> its a xfwm theme. also make sure each folder is in the themes root, not in a subdirectory
07:38 < Pentode> that theme has a bunch of different colors in individual themes in separate folders
07:38 < drb1> yeah
07:38 < Pentode> there are more themes on deviantart..
07:38 < drb1> ah
07:39 < stevendale> I managed to install XP on a PC that bsod'd trying to install from USB, even with SATA drivers loaded into the ISO, by emulating a CD drive
07:39 < drb1> are they of crappy quality?
07:39 < Pentode> theres probably ten themes on the whole of xfcelook that i like, lol
07:39 < drb1> It's strange because I've seen cooler xfce themes in images and videos but can't find them
07:40 < sauvin> stevendale, nobody cares about Windows stuff.
07:40 < iflema> stevendale: was that thing back in 2001?
07:40 < s10gopal> how to fix it https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MJQRM28W3z/ ?
07:41 < iflema> USB boot a winblows install
07:41 < stevendale> sauvin: Excuse me, you're not everybody, so you can't say that, if you think you're everybody then you can stop being an op and leave
07:42 < sauvin> Let's put it this way, then: Windows by itself is off-topic in this channel, and becomes relevant only when interoperability is involved.
07:42 < Triffid_Hunter> heh I have win10 on a usb but it always complains about missing drivers.. it doesn't however say *which* drivers are missing, making it rather difficult to solve
07:42 < sauvin> No kidding. :\
07:43 < stevendale> Triffid_Hunter Go to the run dialog with 'Windows + R' and type 'devmgmt.msc', that will open Device Manager, and it should have a section for non-working drivers/hardware
07:43 < nai> Also nobody cares about Windows
07:43 < iflema> games!
07:43 < iflema> tripple A
07:44 < iflema> member
07:44 < s10gopal> how to fix it ? https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198665 first bad commit is found
07:44 < Triffid_Hunter> stevendale: it's the installer, not a running install, so no control panel
07:45 < paddy|> the ##windows channel must suck really bad when the people come to ##linux for support
07:45 < quackslikeaduck> they're...too windowsy over there.. it does suck
07:45 < drb1> still not working for me
07:45 < kavity> netflix
07:45 < drb1> that theme is crap
07:45 < kavity> Shit, wrong keyboard...
07:45 < s10gopal> please tell
07:46 < Pentode> well you must be doing something wrong
07:46 < stevendale> Triffid_Hunter, Oh... If it's on a USB 3 port, try switching to a USB 2 port, USB3 drivers in the installers have always been flaky, otherwise the USB could be remade onto a USB 2 stick, and if those don't work, it may be a problem with the SATA/drive operation mode, it'll almost always work if the SATA mode is set to ATA
07:46 < Pentode> are all the individual folders in themes? /themes/blah/folders will _not_ work
07:47 < drb1> nope, Pentode, I took the xfmw4 dir out and moved it in /usr/share/themes
07:47 < kavity> My windows box wasn't working properly just now, but I'll just reboot and hope for the best.
07:47 < Pentode> that wont work either
07:47 < quackslikeaduck> with Win10, type verifier from commandline within Win, ran from backup-disk or during install
07:47 < kavity> I don't care enough about windows to learn the ins and outs of it again.
07:47 < Pentode> they must be like this: /themes/theme_name/xfwm4/
07:48 < drb1> so...
07:48 < drb1> just leave it in the folder I unzipped it from?
07:48 < drb1> * dir
07:48 < stevendale> quackslikeaduck: sfc /scannow (with the install media plugged in)
07:48 < Pentode> unzip the folders into /themes/
07:48 < Pentode> its simple
07:48 < quackslikeaduck> yeah that too, definitely a first thing to try imo (sfc^^)
07:48 < Triffid_Hunter> stevendale: I'll try someday.. meanwhile the linux mint on the same key boots just fine
07:49 < paddy|> you guys seem to be serious about this "windows support here"
07:49  * iflema install, install gpedit and adjust update madness, install origin, install steam, point to games... maybe some winrar to pinch/test some crap and game on...
07:49 < stevendale> Yeah ##windows is horrible
07:50 < kavity> Seems everytime I boot windows something needs to update.
07:51 < iflema> kavity: you on home?
07:51 < iflema> you can fix that
07:52 < kavity> I think it's home, whatever came with the laptop.
07:52 < paddy|> i go to #perl to ask for help with my python script?
07:52 < kavity> paddy|: I've seen people ask for help for lots of non-linux related things here.
07:53 < paddy|> really? and many wrongs make 1 good thing?
07:53 < kavity> If you want to see sticklers about what you can/can't ask about, go check out ##C++
07:53 < kavity> paddy|: I don't understand.
07:54 < auctus> how does sudo work with crontab? can i sudo from crontab?
07:54 < [R]> auctus: if its set to npasswd, sure
07:54 < [R]> nopasswd*
07:54 < [R]> sounds like you should just run the command rom the proper users crontab to begin wtih though
07:55 < Triffid_Hunter> auctus: why not just edit root's crontab?
07:55 < auctus> i just wanna run ./cert/certbot-auto renew
07:55 < auctus> regularly
07:55 < auctus> letsencrypt
07:55 < auctus> requires sudo
07:56 < auctus> Triffid_Hunter: i could, is there any reason not to?
07:56 < agris> [R], what's your opinion of Devuan?
07:57 < [R]> agris: of what?
07:57 < agris> [R], Devuan. You called in a 'nonsense distro'
07:57 < [R]> well... i'm pretty sure that tells you what my opinion is...
07:57 < agris> i assume you have a strong opinion about it
07:58 < [R]> yes
07:58 < [R]> its a nonsense dist
07:58 < agris> what specifically about it
07:58 < [R]> the whole thing...
07:58 < agris> nonsense is ambiguous
07:58 < [R]> lol
07:59 < s10gopal> first bad commit is found , please help me https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198665
07:59 < [R]> s10gopal: what?
07:59 < ayecee> s10gopal: help you to do what?
08:00 < s10gopal> how to i fix it ?
08:00 < ayecee> look at what that commit does, and reverse it
08:00 < s10gopal> [R], ayecee this is the bad commit https://hastebin.com/bugahomuti.sql
08:00 < ayecee> then recompile the kernel, and see if that fixes your problem
08:01 < s10gopal> i dont know how to do it
08:01 < ayecee> which part?
08:01 < s10gopal> how to reverse it
08:01 < ayecee> well, what does that commit change?
08:02 < s10gopal> ayecee,     PM / core: Drop run_wake flag from struct dev_pm_info
08:02 < ayecee> no, what lines of code does it change?
08:02 < s10gopal> i dont know , please see https://hastebin.com/bugahomuti.sql
08:02 < ayecee> i have
08:03 < ayecee> that shows me the summary, not what changed
08:03 < iflema> drop the commit on git over the linux repo   git show [commit]
08:03 < ayecee> what tells you that this is the first bad commit?
08:03 < [R]> drop it like its hot
08:03 < s10gopal> ayecee, git bisect
08:03 < [R]> s10gopal: this is a family channel
08:03 < ayecee> okay, can you do what iflema says and use git show to show the changes?
08:04 < s10gopal> output of git show http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6y3XBgs5xJ/
08:05 < iflema>  better with colo(u)r
08:05 < iflema> or maybe a distraction
08:05 < iflema> ...
08:05 < s10gopal> ?
08:05 < thebigj> https://dpaste.de/Dgyw/raw
08:05 < ayecee> okay, save this to a file, remove everything above line 23, then at the top of your kernel tree, run "patch -R < filename.txt" to reverse it
08:06 < ayecee> there's probably a way to do that with git itself, but i don't know it offhand.
08:06 < thebigj> Above script I am using to make partition to my SD card.
08:06 < AndroidKitKat> can anyone help me config i3? i know its dumb but i cant for the life of me find the files to control brightness
08:06 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: xbacklight?
08:06 < s10gopal> ayecee, first i need to boot in that bad kernel ?
08:06 < thebigj> https://dpaste.de/wkkU/raw is the link of  mmcblk0-partition.tab
08:06 < ayecee> s10gopal: no
08:06 < s10gopal> or use it in cd linux ?
08:07 < ayecee> what
08:07 < s10gopal> ayecee, what is kernel tree ?
08:07 < ayecee> the kernel source
08:07 < ayecee> the thing you've been git bisecting
08:08 < AndroidKitKat> azarus: xbacklight repots no outputs have backlight property
08:08 < s10gopal> ayecee, that folder is named linux
08:08 < ayecee> neat
08:08 < pabed> hi guys , is there any NTP web service ?
08:08 < s10gopal> ayecee, i need to put that text file inside linux folder , or at home (kernel .deb files are generatedd at home)
08:09 < [R]> pabed: what would an ntp web service do?
08:09 < ayecee> s10gopal: it doesn't matter where the file is, as long as you tell patch -R where it is
08:09 < thebigj> The problem is, the partitions are not available
08:09 < thebigj> https://dpaste.de/VS7f/raw
08:09 < thebigj> Above is the output of the script.
08:09 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: dig around in sysfs
08:10 < pabed> [R]:I need to get time and date with that function
08:10 < [R]> pabed: what?
08:10 < thebigj> I am running "sudo partprobe /dev/sdc" after "sudo sfdisk /dev/sdc < custom"
08:10 < [R]> pabed: what does this have to do with linux?
08:10 < AndroidKitKat> azarus: where would that be
08:11 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: /sys
08:11 < thebigj> Still, the output of lsblk doesn't look like a familiar output
08:11 < AndroidKitKat> cd fs
08:11 < AndroidKitKat> oops
08:11 < pabed> [R]: I use it in raspbery pi in shell script
08:11 < thebigj> I am in Ubuntu VM.
08:11 < [R]> pabed: what?
08:11 < thebigj> Can anyone suggest where I am making any mistake?
08:11 < pabed> what ? awaht?
08:11 < thebigj> Thanks!
08:12 < ayecee> thebigj: one big mistake is that the description is spread over several lines, at a time where people are working on other problems
08:13 < ayecee> the start of the problem was off the screen before you got to the end of it.
08:14 < thebigj> ayecee: Okay. Let me wait for the existing discussion to complete and then repost.
08:14 < thebigj> ayecee: Thanks for informing.
08:14 < s10gopal> ayecee, i did patch -R > patchbygopal.txt , but cursor is blinking
08:14 < ayecee> s10gopal: > is not the same as <
08:14 < AndroidKitKat> azarus: i found something i think
08:15 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/VmCpnBD2/
08:15 < AndroidKitKat> device, power, and subsystem are folders
08:15 < s10gopal> ayecee, it will give any output ?
08:16 < ayecee> yes
08:16 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: cool. try manipulating them?
08:16 < AndroidKitKat> how o i do that?
08:16 < AndroidKitKat> man xbacklight
08:16 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: they are files.
08:16 < AndroidKitKat> just call them?
08:17 < azarus> now, how does one manipulate files? I believe that to be basic, common knowledge
08:17 < azarus> write to them, read to them.
08:17 < azarus> read from them*
08:17 < AndroidKitKat> lik with a text editor?
08:17 < s10gopal> ayecee, getting error https://hastebin.com/irazahebiy.hs
08:17 < ayecee> sure, or with echo
08:17 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: doubt it. read from them. what do you get?
08:18 < ayecee> s10gopal: ah, patch -p1 -R < filename.txt
08:18 < ayecee> forgot the -p1
08:18 < iflema> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTZAfX4ZvZg
08:18 < AndroidKitKat> if i cat some of them
08:18 < AndroidKitKat> i get nothing
08:19 < s10gopal> ayecee, patching file Documentation/power/runtime_pm.txt
08:19 < s10gopal> Unreversed patch detected!  Ignore -R? [n]
08:19 < s10gopal> what to press ?
08:19 < ayecee> n
08:19 < s10gopal> Apply anyway? [n]
08:19 < s10gopal>  ?
08:20 < ayecee> the tree you have there, is that before the bad commit, or after?
08:20 < s10gopal> sorry , i dont know
08:20 < AndroidKitKat> azarus:  i think i did something
08:20 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: cool
08:21 < AndroidKitKat> by writing to the file the brightness changes
08:21 < AndroidKitKat> so i found my file
08:21 < azarus> great job!
08:21 < ayecee> s10gopal: the intent here is to take a kernel version that has the problem, and reverse this change, and find out if that fixes it.
08:21 < AndroidKitKat> now i just need to have i3 manipulate them
08:21 < ayecee> s10gopal: to do that, you need to start with a kernel version that has the problem.
08:21 < AndroidKitKat> or have xbacklight see it
08:21 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: write a script, have i3 call it
08:22 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: config file
08:22 < AndroidKitKat> config of xbacklight?
08:22 < iflema> you d same for volume if needed
08:22 < thebigj> Question: When the partition made using "sfdisk" are available? I am calling "partprobe" and "sync" after "sfdisk" still "lsblk" don't show expected partitions. My source script https://dpaste.de/Dgyw/raw The file "mmcblk0-partition.tab" here https://dpaste.de/wkkU/raw The output of the script https://dpaste.de/VS7f/raw
08:22 < thebigj> I am in Ubuntu VM
08:22 < thebigj> Host OS: Gentoo
08:22 < thebigj> Let me know if you are expecting any other details from my side.
08:22 < thebigj> Thanks!
08:23 < ayecee> thebigj: after the next reboot
08:23 < s10gopal> ayecee, i got this coit when i did git vommit bad
08:23 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: no. I3s
08:23 < s10gopal> ayecee, means git is at bad kernel ?
08:23 < AndroidKitKat> azarus: to edit the value i needed root, can i3 use scripts that require root?
08:23 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: under keybindings
08:23 < ayecee> s10gopal: i have no idea
08:23 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: what kernel version you running there?
08:23 < s10gopal> ayecee, or i can download the kernel source again and patch latest ml ?
08:23 < ayecee> s10gopal: start with the version that you had the problem with.
08:23 < thebigj> ayecee: Is there any solution if I want expected partitions without a reboot?
08:23 < AndroidKitKat> Linux doorstop 4.15.15-63.current #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Apr 7 08:32:34 UTC 2018 x86_64 GNU/Linux
08:24 < thebigj> ayecee: As I have mentioned, I am calling "partprobe" and "sync" after "sfdisk"
08:24 < ayecee> thebigj: no, not if a partition on the disk was in use.
08:24 < s10gopal> ayecee, the problem dont exist in v12 and before
08:24 < azarus> PREEMPT? don't see that often
08:24 < s10gopal> ayecee, test 4.13 ?
08:24 < cheapie> AndroidKitKat: Your doorstop runs Linux? :P
08:24 < AndroidKitKat> lol
08:24 < s10gopal> or 4.13-rc1 ?
08:24 < ayecee> s10gopal: 4.13, sure
08:24 < thebigj> ayecee: This is SD card. How can I check something is using it?
08:24 < stevendale> 3.2.0
08:25 < thebigj> ayecee: I haven't mounted it.
08:25 < fareast> anyone have experience with edgemax?
08:25 < s10gopal> ayecee, thx
08:25 < iodev> what is edgemax? fareast
08:25 < fareast> ubiquiti router
08:25 < AndroidKitKat> so the package arch tells me to install isnt in the repos for my distro hmm
08:25 < ayecee> fareast: one way to find out is to ask a question about edgemax.
08:26 < ayecee> thebigj: what was the output of partprobe?
08:26 < fareast> does anyone run deluge?
08:26 < ayecee> fareast: stop with the survey questions
08:26 < fareast> ok i need to port forward I am running cpn
08:26 < fareast> vpn
08:27 < iodev> fareast: yes, I run deluge
08:27 < fareast> how do I accomplish this? I am on linux mint
08:27 < fareast> I goto canyouseeme.org and I can't see that I am open
08:27 < fareast> I even set a static ip
08:27 < thebigj> ayecee: https://dpaste.de/LU2i/raw It is part of a shell script.
08:27 < fareast> I tried ssh 22 and it worked fine
08:27 < thebigj> ayecee: The command is part of shell script.
08:28 < ayecee> thebigj: what was the output of the command?
08:28 < thebigj> ayecee: It didn't gave any output.
08:29 < fareast> iodev: did you port forward?
08:29 < ayecee> thebigj: okay. the kernel thinks the device is in use. i don't know offhand how you'd check what was using it, except maybe fuser or lsof.
08:30 < ayecee> anyhow, time for sleep. o/
08:31 < thebigj> ayecee: Okay. Many thanks for helping. I will read the man of those commands.
08:31 < thebigj> ayecee: Good night :)
08:33 < iodev> fareast: no
08:33 < fareast> ok
08:34 < AndroidKitKat> so im still unsure where to proceed
08:34 < AndroidKitKat> i found my backlight file
08:34 < AndroidKitKat> but i dont know what to do with it
08:36 < AndroidKitKat> i have no idea where to go from this point
08:37 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: well if xbacklight and what not do not work a small script to echo numbers to the file to raise and lower
08:37 < AndroidKitKat> wont i need sudo access everytime i push the button?
08:38 < iflema> something like that
08:38 < AndroidKitKat> so if i push the button it would need my password?
08:38 < iflema> depends how you do it
08:38 < azarus> man sudoers
08:38 < azarus> you can make it not ask for a password
08:40 < AndroidKitKat> ill try
08:40 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: whats not in the arch repo
08:40 < AndroidKitKat> im not on arch
08:40 < AndroidKitKat> im on Solus
08:40 < AndroidKitKat> sorry for not saying earlier
08:40 < rpgio> this is backwards lol -- you don't need sudo to set xbacklight value
08:40 < rpgio> once you configure it correctly
08:41 < AndroidKitKat> my backlight isnt detected
08:41 < azarus> i've had cases where xbacklight doesn't work
08:41 < iflema> rpgio: sudo for script on worst case
08:41 < rpgio> yes, you need to configure it -- did you google that message
08:41 < rpgio> about no source
08:41 < AndroidKitKat> i did
08:41 < rpgio> because that's always what it says out the box
08:42 < nai> you can use a udev rule to make /sys/class/backlight/your_backlight/brightness belong to the group "video" and make it chmod 664
08:42 < nai> then add yourself to the group video and you can write to it
08:42 < azarus> nai has a pretty good idea
08:42 < nai> taken from the arch wiki to be honest
08:42 < azarus> now -- i do doubt AndroidKitKat is capable of writing udev rules
08:42 < AndroidKitKat> ^
08:43  * iflema forgets... Fn buttons have worked for over a year now
08:43 < AndroidKitKat> I mainly use Budgie for my DE
08:43 < nai> just go to the arch wiki, "backlight" article
08:43 < nai> copy paste the lines
08:43 < AndroidKitKat> people pressured me into trying i3
08:43 < azarus> don't give into peer pressure?
08:43 < AndroidKitKat> naturally
08:43 < rpgio> unless you want a tiling wm
08:44 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: it can save power,save distraction but i can also be a pin
08:44 < rpgio> which is great
08:44 < rpgio> you should try i3
08:44 < rpgio> ... ;)
08:44 < iflema> it pain
08:44 < AndroidKitKat> thats what im trying right now
08:44 < AndroidKitKat> and its caused more headache than workflow improvement
08:44 < azarus> I abandoned i3 a while ago for dwm, which would be even more of a pain to most
08:45 < azarus> change config? recompile
08:45 < nai> you should try bspwm
08:45 < iflema> i3: change config mod+r
08:45 < AndroidKitKat> I dont really see the benefit of a tiling wm,  when the tiling my DE had built in worked for me
08:45 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: well then stay with budgie
08:45 < nai> reload config on bspwm: run ~/.config/bspwm/bspwmrc
08:46 < azarus> you're probably not the type to benefit from a tiling vm
08:46 < nai> AndroidKitKat: what DE has builtin tiling support?
08:46 < AndroidKitKat> It’s not exact tiling
08:46  * iflema looks out the vindow
08:46 < AndroidKitKat> But it’s got stuff to throw windows side by side
08:46 < AndroidKitKat> And atop each other kinda
08:47 < azarus> dwm master/stack and being tag based is what won me over
08:47 < iflema> containers!
08:47 < AndroidKitKat> Containers are confusing
08:47 < azarus> no other wm works quite like it and I like it very much
08:48 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: hear here
08:48 < AndroidKitKat> like if there was a visual indication for what was and what wasnt in a container
08:49 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: there is
08:49 < azarus> adjust PS1?
08:49 < AndroidKitKat> i dont see it then
08:49 < iflema> still confusing
08:49 < iflema> might read how to use them one day...
08:49 < iflema> did once
08:49 < AndroidKitKat> i want to go back to the safety of budgie but i promised myself id learn i3
08:50 < AndroidKitKat> ive done this 3 times before and ive quit
08:50 < nai> what's a container
08:50 < iflema> dmenu is mad
08:50 < iflema> nai: a group of tiled windows
08:50 < nai> oh, so it's bspwm's nodes
08:51 < AndroidKitKat> ok so nai i made the udev rule
08:51 < AndroidKitKat> now i just have to learn shell scripting?
08:51 < AndroidKitKat> i understand what i need to do
08:52 < nai> or use xbacklight
08:52 < azarus> "I wanna be cool and hip but I don't know how" -- AndroidKitKat
08:52 < AndroidKitKat> i want to learn
08:52 < nai> if you want to learn scripting then make a script, that's a good exercise
08:52 < FreeFull> I use a python script
08:52 < azarus> there are thousands of ways to do it
08:53 < iflema> learn the bash
08:53 < nai> you just need to read a brightness value from brightness, read a max brightness from max_brightness, do a calculation and store the result back in brightness
08:53 < AndroidKitKat> yeah
08:53 < AndroidKitKat> its the syntax that is weird
08:53 < AndroidKitKat> of a bash script
08:53 < azarus> #!/bin/sh, the only true shell
08:53 < nai> head over to #bash and read the guide
08:53 < nai> sh is not even a shell
08:53 < nai> it's a standard
08:54 < azarus> *it's *the* standard
08:54 < nai> who cares about standard
08:55 < azarus> people that aren't bound to a single operating system and need portability
08:55 < nai> let's make everything platform dependent
08:55 < nai> on my platform preferably
08:55 < azarus> best idea 2018
08:55 < azarus> nobel prize worthy
08:55 < nai> i'm claiming it
08:56 < azarus> most of my systems don't even have bash >:)
08:56 < nai> is that emote meant to imply that you use freebsd?
08:56 < azarus> nope
08:56 < azarus> alpine linux and openbsd
08:57 < nai> then what systems lol
08:57 < nai> oh
08:57 < nai> alpine doesn't have bash?
08:57 < nai> damn, i'm never trying that
08:57 < azarus> nope
08:57 < azarus> you can install it
08:57 < azarus> but why would you?
08:58 < azarus> all of busybox -- including a fully functional shell and many utilitites are smaller than bash
08:58 < nai> because bash is the one true shell
08:59 < gzuh> no one repping zsh?
09:00 < nai> ew
09:00 < gzuh> haha
09:00 < gzuh> agreed, but i see it all over
09:00 < iflema> all over what
09:00 < P_B> ...what is neither a file, nor directory, and has permissions crw------- ?
09:01 < nai> a character device of course
09:01 < P_B> at /dev/mapper/control
09:01 < gzuh> iflema: reddit, youtube, etc
09:01 < P_B> What is a character device?
09:01 < iflema> and archlinux
09:01 < nai> P_B: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Device_file#Character_devices
09:01 < AndroidKitKat> should I have my brightness level go by a set # or a %
09:01 < gzuh> iflema: yeah that's probably it too. just started using arch a few mos ago
09:02 < P_B> uhm. okay, so what is it?
09:02 < nai> AndroidKitKat: you probably want a linear % increase
09:02 < AndroidKitKat> i was thinking too
09:03 < AndroidKitKat> you think 5%?
09:03 < iflema> P_B: a device that sends characters
09:04 < iflema> P_B: you listing /dev
09:04 < nai> AndroidKitKat: that's up to you. i have 2%
09:05 < AndroidKitKat> this is probably all wrong
09:05 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/13ERWPhZ/
09:05 < AndroidKitKat> i need to learn the syntax
09:05 < AndroidKitKat> but the idea is right
09:05 < AndroidKitKat> i think
09:05 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: thge math
09:06 < AndroidKitKat> is it wrong?
09:06 < gzuh> put math in $[]
09:06 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: syntax
09:07 < AndroidKitKat> but i have the calling of the variables right?
09:07 < nai> well this is nothing like a bash script, but yeah the idea is about right
09:07 < nai> except you probably want 0.02 for 2%
09:07 < AndroidKitKat> bash has weird syntax compared to other things ive worked with
09:07 < gzuh> $ before the variables when calling them, but not when setting them
09:07 < AndroidKitKat> yeah i realize that lol
09:07 < P_B> iflema, yeah, was looking in /dev/mapper. The concept is new to me.
09:07 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: also variables prepend a $   so $max_brightness
09:07 < P_B> I gather certain hardware is talked to in such a fashion, rather than sending larger blocks of data
09:08 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: when you call them
09:08 < AndroidKitKat> i also have to write to the file too
09:08 < nai> P_B: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Device_mapper
09:09 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: and when done           chmod +x [file]     and run it like    ./[file]
09:09 < AndroidKitKat> i have little faith in this
09:09 < gzuh> use > to redirect to file.
09:09 < AndroidKitKat> i still need to write to the brightness file
09:09 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: but youll also have opts and args   so    ./file something
09:09 < vhudrox> https://imgur.com/a/B5ids
09:09 < vhudrox> discuss.
09:10 < AndroidKitKat> nsfw
09:10 < vhudrox> dude dont be a spoiler
09:10 < vhudrox> its a surprise
09:10 < AndroidKitKat> its a naked women
09:10 < AndroidKitKat> woman
09:10 < vhudrox> if you spend company time on chat anyway
09:10 < AndroidKitKat> dont click
09:10 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: xbacklight not working?
09:10 < AndroidKitKat> iflema: still no
09:10 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: xbacklight and i3 keybings
09:10 < AndroidKitKat> id like that to work
09:10 < vhudrox> then who gives any different amount of shits if you see tits
09:11 < AndroidKitKat> i added something to xorg.conf but im not sure
09:11 < nai> AndroidKitKat: have you joined the video group and rebooted?
09:11 < vhudrox> if you're already abusing company resources if you are on irc
09:11 < vhudrox> on your work machine
09:11 < AndroidKitKat> i have to reboot?
09:11 < AndroidKitKat> not just restart xorg?
09:11 < AndroidKitKat> i also have not joined the video group
09:11 < vhudrox> then you blame me if I paste a bad link and you click it with no description
09:11 < vhudrox> ?
09:11 < nai> vhudrox: why send this here? this is a topical channel
09:12 < vhudrox> nai: im sending it to all chans
09:12 < vhudrox> one at a time ofc
09:12 < AndroidKitKat> send it to #Solus
09:12 < nai> AndroidKitKat: gpasswd -a video <your_username>
09:12 < nai> then reboot for the udev rule to take effect
09:12 < vhudrox> ok
09:12 < vhudrox> done
09:12 < nai> vhudrox: why
09:12 < nai> are you 13
09:13 < AndroidKitKat> he acts like it
09:13 < AndroidKitKat> user video doesnt exist nai
09:13 < nai> woops other way around
09:14 < nai> gpasswd -a you video
09:14 < AndroidKitKat> ok reboot
09:15 < AndroidKitKat> I think I fucked my system
09:15 < nai> lmao
09:16 < AndroidKitKat> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/RMEVA5DR/1523258159.JPG
09:16 < nai> what did you do
09:16 < vhudrox> nai im 21
09:16 < vhudrox> and thats how many inches my cock is too!
09:16 < nai> ok cool vhudrox
09:16 < AndroidKitKat> I can’t startx
09:16 < nai> how
09:16 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: what error message does it give you
09:17 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: what did you change in xorg.conf and why do you even have one?
09:17 < AndroidKitKat> I added a line
09:17 < nai> the suspense is unbearable
09:17 < AndroidKitKat> And it didn’t take well
09:18 < nai> what line
09:18 < vhudrox> i also am evading k-lines
09:18 < vhudrox> im such a hax0r
09:18 < AndroidKitKat> Where’s xorg contained again
09:18 < rpgio> AndroidKitKat: did you submerge your monitor in beach sand?
09:18 < iflema> /etc/X11/org.conf.d
09:18 < iflema> /etc/X11/org.conf
09:19 < AndroidKitKat> Rpgio sadly no
09:19 < vhudrox> testicle farts
09:19 < vhudrox> lol pooooooooop
09:19 < vhudrox> scrotum
09:19 < vhudrox> vagina
09:19 < vhudrox> vulva
09:19 < iflema> penis
09:19 < vhudrox> clitoris
09:19 < junka> ban
09:19 < AndroidKitKat> That’s what I added https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/TufKdBUM/1523258372.JPG
09:19 < nai> vhudrox: you're not fun, interesting or edgy
09:20 < AndroidKitKat> I’ll remove that file
09:21 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: that would go into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d
09:21 < iflema> its a snippet
09:21 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: xorg.conf.d is a directory
09:21 < nai> yup, that's supposed to go into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/NN-backlight.conf
09:21 < nai> where NN is a priority number
09:21 < gzuh> AndroidKitKat: i think i fixed your script if you still want it. i can't test it tho bc i don't have a backlight. http://termbin.com/6gbk
09:21 < nai> but anyway AndroidKitKat i don't think you need that
09:22 < AndroidKitKat> Reboot isn’t found anymore
09:22 < nai> X should be smart enough to not need that information
09:22 < AndroidKitKat> By Zach
09:22 < AndroidKitKat> Zsh
09:22 < nai> wut
09:22 < iflema> lol
09:22 < nai> "reboot" without the caps?
09:22 < AndroidKitKat> Yep
09:22 < nai> try systemctl reboot
09:22 < AndroidKitKat> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Om6d5TlG/1523258570.JPG
09:23 < AndroidKitKat> That worked
09:23 < rpgio> shutdown -r
09:23 < iflema> ctrl+alt+f2    then    ctrl+alt+ del
09:23 < nai> you have the weirdest issues
09:23 < gzuh> or sudo
09:23 < AndroidKitKat> It’s my distro
09:23 < nai> change it
09:23 < nai> lol
09:24 < AndroidKitKat> But it’s so nice
09:24 < AndroidKitKat> Fast and boots in seconds
09:24 < gzuh> AndroidKitKat: what distro?
09:24 < AndroidKitKat> Solus
09:24 < iflema> AndroidKitKat: as in you made it or you chose it?
09:24 < azarus> a distro without `reboot`?
09:24 < AndroidKitKat> reboot works normally
09:24 < azarus> even alpine has it xD
09:25 < AndroidKitKat> in x reboot works fine
09:25 < nai> iflema: i doubt he made it :)
09:25 < AndroidKitKat> yeah lol
09:25 < nai> uhhh
09:25 < nai> maybe your xinitrc extends your PATH to include that reboot executable
09:25 < gzuh> did you try sudo reboot
09:25 < nai> which is weird cause on arch it's under /usr/bin
09:25 < iflema> lol
09:25 < AndroidKitKat> i rebooted fine
09:25 < AndroidKitKat> ok
09:25 < nai> gzuh: sudo won't fix "command not found"
09:25 < gzuh> no?
09:26 < AndroidKitKat> lets try gzuh's script
09:26 < azarus> sudo might have a different PATH
09:26 < nai> AndroidKitKat: can you try xbacklight first? it's supposed to work now
09:26 < AndroidKitKat> oh right
09:26 < gzuh> in debian reboot is in /sbin
09:26 < AndroidKitKat> and nope
09:26 < geirha> yeah sudo is usually configured to set its own PATH
09:28 < nai> nope, at least on arch sudo uses your path
09:28 < nai> AndroidKitKat: what nope? not working? what error message?
09:28 < AndroidKitKat> same one
09:28 < AndroidKitKat> no output device with backlight
09:29 < nai> can you write to the backlight file? try "echo 1000 > /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness"
09:30 < AndroidKitKat> permission denied hmm
09:30 < AndroidKitKat> even sudo cant wut
09:30 < nai> AndroidKitKat: run groups
09:30 < gzuh> try running as root. you can't sudo that because of the redirect
09:30 < nai> AndroidKitKat: and also ls -la /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/
09:31 < gzuh> unless there's an option for sudo that lets you do redirects that i don't know
09:31 < nai> no there's not
09:31 < gzuh> sudo su then run the command
09:31 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/3AdiR3BS/
09:31 < nai> sudo echo is pointless
09:31 < azarus> echo asdoiqwe | sudo tee -a /your/file
09:31 < gzuh> azarus: ooh nice
09:31 < nai> AndroidKitKat: you forgot the trailing /
09:31 < AndroidKitKat> oh oops
09:31 < nai> i'm interested in the contents of that folder
09:32 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/fYsIEfsm/
09:32 < nai> yes azarus , or sudo cat >> /your/file <<< your_text
09:33 < azarus> hanetzer: hmm, the redirect works as a user, not as root, I believe
09:33 < nai> AndroidKitKat: it seems like your udev rule didn't work
09:33 < azarus> nai^^*
09:33 < nai> can you confirm that there's a file under /etc/udev/rules.d and cat his content?
09:33 < nai> azarus: true, my bad
09:34 < nai> s/his/its/
09:34 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/g3SoHWmw/
09:34 < nai> look at me gendering files
09:34 < gzuh> nai: i was gonna make a joke about assuming gender
09:34  * azarus is triggered
09:34 < iflema> NOPASSWD a script or alias OR better yet use something like xbacklight
09:35 < AndroidKitKat> no joke my school's linux servers have an alias so woman command gives the manual
09:35 < nai> AndroidKitKat: there's something missing in that file. i see there's a backup (file ending with ~), can you cat this?
09:35 < gzuh> AndroidKitKat: lol
09:35 < nai> lmao
09:35 < iflema> =)
09:35 < AndroidKitKat> its empty nai
09:35 < peetaur2> AndroidKitKat: don't you mean womanual?
09:35 < AndroidKitKat> youre right
09:35 < nai> AndroidKitKat: then you failed at some point when entering the rules
09:36 < iflema> man women
09:36 < nai> there's supposed to be 2 lines
09:36 < nai> peetaur2: do you know "man" ?
09:36 < peetaur2> nai: no, and what's a linux?
09:36 < nai> iflema: No manual entry for women
09:36 < AndroidKitKat> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/backlight#Udev_rule shows one line
09:36 < nai> oh it's some kind of animal
09:37 < nai> AndroidKitKat: there was a misunderstanding, i wasn't talking about that rule
09:37 < nai> my fault, sorry
09:37 < AndroidKitKat> ah
09:37 < nai> look for the other udev snippet
09:37 < nai> "By default, only root can change the brightness by this method."
09:37 < AndroidKitKat> ah
09:38 < iflema> oh yeah
09:39 < AndroidKitKat> should i delete the other file?
09:39 < AndroidKitKat> now i need to do something to this file too, dont i
09:39 < stevendale> Hey
09:39 < nai> AndroidKitKat: just replace its content with those 2 lines
09:40 < AndroidKitKat> should i change "acpi_video0" to "intel_backlight"
09:40 < AndroidKitKat> ok i did it i think
09:40 < AndroidKitKat> i have to add this to the video group right
09:41 < nai> AndroidKitKat: yes, change the name of your subsystem
09:41 < nai> and no you don't need to do that
09:41 < AndroidKitKat> so i should just reboot?
09:41 < nai> yes
09:43 < AndroidKitKat> alright
09:43 < AndroidKitKat> nothing happened
09:43 < nai> rerun that ls -la command
09:44 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/FY77NvIr/
09:44 < nai> i meant on /sys
09:45 < nai> also delete that "backlight.rules~"
09:45 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/5Oq7FZj1/
09:45 < AndroidKitKat> thats /sys unless you meant on the backlight thing
09:46 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/D1hQCpw4/
09:46 < nai> yes, that's what i meant
09:46 < nai> well now it's supposed to be working
09:47 < nai> you can check that you can write to it by doing echo 1000 > /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness
09:47 < AndroidKitKat> yeah it works
09:47 < nai> and xbacklight?
09:47 < AndroidKitKat> no outputs
09:48 < nai> what are you running
09:48 < AndroidKitKat> Solus
09:48 < nai> no, the command
09:49 < nai> try xbacklight =100
09:49 < AndroidKitKat> ah
09:49 < AndroidKitKat> no outputs
09:49 < nai> damn
09:50 < shhr> hello
09:50 < nai> can you ls -la /sys/class/backlight/ ?
09:50 < nai> and run xbacklight -list
09:51 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/fRCPF1MT/
09:53 < nai> ok, this is not the same xbacklight as what i have
09:53 < AndroidKitKat> I got whatever was in the solus repos
09:53 < nai> try xbacklight -d "$DISPLAY" = 100
09:53 < nai> oh yeah i use acpilight
09:54 < nai> that's probably it
09:54 < AndroidKitKat> still no outpit
09:54 < nai> and your screen brightness didn't change right?
09:54 < AndroidKitKat> stayed the same
09:55 < nai> i installed xorg-xbacklight on my system and it doesn't work either
09:56 < nai> how can this be so broken
09:56 < amosbird> Hi, why do we use "unlink" instead of "delete" or "remove" ?
09:56 < AndroidKitKat> acpilight isnt in my repos either
09:56 < nai> > xbacklight currently does not work with the modesetting driver
09:56 < nai> well, you're out of luck with xbacklight lol
09:57 < nai> AndroidKitKat: well, you're left with writing a script
09:57 < nai> shouldn't be too hard
09:57 < AndroidKitKat> gzuh: had a script
09:57 < AndroidKitKat> http://termbin.com/6gbk
09:57 < AndroidKitKat> how does that look?
09:57 < gzuh> well i just tried to fix yours. I don't know if it works or not
09:58 < AndroidKitKat> it make sense
09:58 < AndroidKitKat> what its having it do
09:58 < nai> no spaces around "=" for assignments
09:59 < gzuh> deng
09:59 < nai> also don't use bc for that
09:59 < nai> step=$(( max_brightness * 2/100 ))
10:00 < MrElendig> https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide
10:00 < MrElendig> but why reinvent the wheel?
10:00 < MrElendig> there are about 5000 backlight scripts/tools out there
10:00 < AndroidKitKat> should it have the $ before max_brightness?
10:01 < nai> MrElendig: why use a script/tool when you can reinvent the wheel?
10:01 < gzuh> nai: on my system that doesn't handle the fraction properly.
10:01 < nai> $ is optional in arithmetic context
10:01 < MrElendig> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/backlight#Other_utilities
10:01 < nai> you can put it if it makes you feel better
10:01 < nai> gzuh: that's because you don't use bash
10:01 < gzuh> i do use bash
10:02 < gzuh> maybe i was testing with smaller than reasonable numbers. does it just round answers to wholes?
10:02 < nai> yes, it rounds
10:02 < gzuh> i see
10:02 < AndroidKitKat> i might just go back to budgie
10:02 < AndroidKitKat> this is a pita
10:02 < nai> operators have left-to-right precedence
10:02 < nai> so it does *2 first and then /100
10:03 < AndroidKitKat> and idk about you guys but its 4 am here
10:03 < nai> 8 pm here
10:03 < gzuh> oh duh. i bash script all the time, but y'all always remind me how bad I am haha
10:04 < nai> lo
10:04 < nai> l
10:04 < AndroidKitKat> fwiw the script works
10:06 < AndroidKitKat> except i cant decrease the brightnes by flipping the + to a i
10:06 < AndroidKitKat> -
10:06 < AndroidKitKat> invalid argument
10:06 < AndroidKitKat> hm
10:07 < AndroidKitKat> ya i cant get it to go down
10:07 < gzuh> what exactly are you switching?
10:07 < AndroidKitKat> i switched the step from a + to a -
10:08 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/3HRqMR3O/
10:08 < gzuh> swap current brighness and step
10:09 < gzuh> you're probably getting a negative number or something
10:10 < AndroidKitKat> it works!
10:10 < AndroidKitKat> u guys fucking rock
10:10 < nai> bad at math are we ;)
10:10 < AndroidKitKat> so now to bind these finally
10:11 < nai> you're still using bc for the simple substraction lol
10:12 < AndroidKitKat> i didnt write it
10:12 < nai> $(( current_brightness - step ))
10:12 < junka> AndroidKitKat; pls upgrade to Oreo
10:12 < revel> junka: What about Android P?
10:13 < junka> revel; its not available yet, or is it?
10:14 < revel> I think it is for Pixel devices.
10:14 < revel> At the very least as a preview.
10:14 < AndroidKitKat> how to i restart i3 quickly?
10:14 < nai> mod+r
10:14 < AndroidKitKat> mod + something
10:15 < AndroidKitKat> thats resize for me
10:15 < junka> r for revel
10:15 < junka> revel; and its still experimental
10:15 < revel> r?
10:16 < junka> AndroidKitKat; sudo reboot
10:16 < revel> I didn't say it was currently stable.
10:16 < junka> revel; thats true
10:16 < revel> Restarting the DM is probably quicker than a reboot.
10:17 < revel> Not that it's a great option.
10:17 < AndroidKitKat> it works
10:17 < AndroidKitKat> sweet
10:17 < AndroidKitKat> holy shit that took forever
10:17 < AndroidKitKat> tysm guys
10:18 < revel> Rebooting worked? lol
10:18 < junka> AndroidKitKat; we gladly accept android devices
10:18 < AndroidKitKat> lol
10:18 < AndroidKitKat> im going to go to bed
10:18 < AndroidKitKat> :)
10:18 < revel> If it only restarted i3, then something's wrong.
10:19 < junka> AndroidKitKat; have a good night
10:19 < revel> I remember something like that happening when /run/initctl disappeared.
10:25 < mavihs> Hola! I'm going to SSH man page, and I came across "Qq challenge text" during authentication. I searched whole internet but couldn't find what is "Qq" challenge text exactly. Can anyone point me to the right direction?
10:33 < peetaur2> mavihs: where do you see "Qq challenge text"?
10:35 < MrElendig> my ssh man page does not contain the string "Qq"
10:35 < MrElendig> nor "challenge text"
10:36 < MrElendig> SSH(1) that is
10:36 < katana_knife>  MrElendig: ssh man page is a manual page, isnt it?
10:37 < stevendale> OwO
10:39 < hexnewbie> http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/cgi/manweb.cgi?p=ssh exists here, appears to be pretty old version of the man page because it lacks mentions of ecdsa
10:41 < Lope> I have Ubuntu 16.04 on an SSD. When I boot it on computer A, my main ethernet adapter is enp3s0 and when I boot it in computer B, the main eth adapter is  it's enp5s0. How can I make it rename (preferably only these eth adapters) to maineth0 or something like that?
10:41 < MrElendig> Lope: why care about the name?
10:41 < MrElendig> but https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
10:41 < peetaur2> new manual says this instead,           Challenge-response authentication works as follows: The server sends an arbitrary "challenge" text, and prompts for a response.  Examples of challenge-response authentication include BSD Authentication (see login.conf(5)) and PAM (some non-OpenBSD systems).
10:42 < MrElendig> debian messes with that though
10:42 < MrElendig> debian/ubuntu*
10:42 < Lope> MrElendig: I need the main eth adapter inside my bridge
10:42 < hexnewbie> Lope: And?
10:42 < peetaur2> so maybe Qq is what people used before quotes were invented
10:42 < MrElendig> if the machine only have one anyway, then you could just add whatever that is to the bridge
10:42 < Lope> hexnewbie: "bridge_ports enp3s0" doesn't work on the pc where the eth is called enp5s0
10:43 < MrElendig> don't have to know the name beforehand
10:43 < hexnewbie> Lope: So use bridge_ports enp5_s0 ?
10:43 < hexnewbie> s/_//
10:43 < jim> Lope, your OS has noticed that they are three different devices
10:43 < MrElendig> and if multiple you could go by whatever has a link
10:43 < Lope> hexnewbie: I use the same SSD in 2 computers, I don't want to edit the file every time I put the SSD in the other computer
10:44 < MrElendig> could also simply use two profiles
10:44 < Lope> jim: OS hasn't noticed anything, I've defined the bridge in /etc/network/interfaces and "bridge_ports enp3s0" needs to name the appropriate adapter.
10:44 < hexnewbie> Lope: MrElendig will tell you how to rename the cards. However, I'm not sure it will like it if you rename two cards to the same name
10:44 < hexnewbie> Lope: MrElendig's links I mean
10:45 < Lope> hexnewbie: the 2 cards exist on 2 different computers that don't run simultaneously.
10:45 < hexnewbie> Lope: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.link.html
10:45 < Lope> So it doesn't matter if both get renamed to the same name.
10:45 < jim> no, it has: they are three different computers, and each has a different eth, so they name them differently
10:45 < hexnewbie> Lope: It may matter to systemd
10:46 < Lope> otherwise I need to setup my bridge in a script, instead of /etc/network/interfaces.
10:46 < jim> maybe you could put a custom script in the initrd?
10:46 < hexnewbie> Lope: Well, try it
10:47 < hexnewbie> Lope: Example 3 from the page may be what you want, but if you don't know how to find the path - you can use the MAC address and example 2.
10:48 < Lope> hexnewbie: MAC address sounds like an awesome method!
10:49 < MrElendig> until you start to randomise the mac
10:49 < interrobang> hello
10:49 < MrElendig> seen people set up renames based on mac and then do randomised mac and then complain that systemd is shit for breaking the network names
10:49 < MrElendig> ^_^
10:50 < jim> hi
10:50 < interrobang> after creating a "cgroup" for limit I/O to a specific process, my hole system are very slow^
10:50 < interrobang> some processes dont respond and so on
10:50 < Lope> can I make systemd rename my eth adapter now without rebooting?
10:51 < MrElendig> interrobang: you put everything into said cgroup instead of just the single process?
10:51 < interrobang> I've did this, create a cgroup v1: https://andrestc.com/post/cgroups-io/
10:51 < Lope> Wow, I just learned a cool trick! ip link set eth1 name eth123
10:51 < MrElendig> Lope: depending on how you do the rename and if it is use yes
10:51 < MrElendig> interrobang: you really should use v2
10:51 < tx> why is that a cool trick tho
10:51 < Triffid_Hunter> interrobang: is the service you limited something that everything else talks to?
10:52 < interrobang> no, its a perl process
10:52 < interrobang> and in this file are only two PIDs, the perl and his child /sys/fs/cgroup/blkio/g1/cgroup.procs
10:52 < Lope> But I've added a file /etc/systemd/network/10-maineth.link as per example 3
10:53 < Lope> but using a MAC address.
10:53 < interrobang> and removing croup1 also dont work
10:53 < interrobang> sudo rm -rf /sys/fs/cgroup/blkio/g1 - fail :(
10:53 < MrElendig> if the interface is in use then it can't be renamed, otherwise just start it
10:53 < Lope> brb
10:54 < hey2> Hey
10:54 < hey2> Is there a way to change the keyboard locale from terminal?
10:54 < hey2> stuck as azerty lol
10:55 < mavihs> looks like "Qq" is indeed "quotes" that's funny
10:55 < mavihs> I searched the whole internet if it was a specific type of a challenge response algorithm
10:56 < mavihs> I used man on my centos 7 with openssh_7.5, I don't think that's old
10:56 < mavihs> but I see "Qq" instead of quotes
10:57 < Lope> MrElendig: hexnewbie: it didn't work :/
10:57 < Lope> I rebooted, but no dice.
11:00 < MrElendig> as I said: ubuntu might be messing with it
11:01 < MrElendig> specially since 16.04 is a frankenstein setup with a 20000 year old systemd version
11:01 < MrElendig> try a udev rule instead, or just read the ubuntu docs
11:01 < MrElendig> (or just have two profiles=
11:01 < hexnewbie> MrElendig: Rename on MAC together with random MAC is something I accomplished to do on 20-30 servers last year. Automated conversation between hypervisors and configs, no MAC in hypervisor config, old hypervisor used interface numbering from config file, and a MAC rename was inherited from when the VM was a hardware machine. It was... fun :)
11:02 < Lope> MrElendig: hexnewbie: trying answer 1 here. rebooting: https://superuser.com/questions/914646/renaming-network-interface-with-systemd
11:04 < hexnewbie> Sounds like NetworkManager's fault rather than fault of systemd and a networkd requirement as the first answer states
11:05 < hexnewbie> The only thing I know about NetworkManager is that it's the thing I had to scrub from Kubuntu to get eth0 to ‘connect’ and get IP from DHCP.
11:05 < LinuxUser44> test
11:05 < Zexaron> Hello
11:06 < stevendale> Hi hexnewbie
11:06 < MrElendig> networkmanager usually works just fine
11:06 < Zexaron> How could I make linux to ignore middle mouse clicks after each time it is pressed, some kind of a cooldown, so it only registery 1 click per second
11:06 < LinuxUser44> Hello, is there a way to see system calls for a process while gdb is attached to that process? If I do ´strace -p 12345´ it tells me permission denied
11:07 < hexnewbie> Well, back then it told me my cable was unplugged, so I apt-get purge'd it, set up /etc/network/interfaces entry and did that ever since :)
11:07 < milp_2> hi there, which way around was swappiness? I have 8 gigs and would like my system to use 90% without swapping - do i need to set 90 or 10 swappiness?
11:07 < MrElendig> Zexaron: write a custom hid driver or hack into xorg
11:07 < MrElendig> Zexaron: sounds like a xyproblem though...
11:07 < MrElendig> fix your broken mouse button instead
11:08 < jelly> milp_2: 10 or 1.  It's not a percentage value really.
11:08 < milp_2> jelly: can you please elaborate? i thought it was a percentage
11:08 < hexnewbie> Overcomplicated overengineered Rube Goldberg devices work fine when they work fine, but it's no point for me waiting for when they wouldn't :)
11:08 < Zexaron> MrElendig: on windows this can easily be done with autohotkey script, so linux is 20 years behind in this area, so much for "TEH OPENSOURCE"
11:08 < jelly> milp_2: it's a hint telling the kernel how aggressive to be
11:09 < stevendale> Um
11:09 < Zexaron> No, I will not buy another mouse just because the button is broken, unless you volunteer to buy me a new one
11:09 < Zexaron> Got more important things to spend money on
11:09 < stevendale> Windows couldn't really do that prior to 2K an XP Zexaron
11:10 < hey2> People pay more for that actually Zexaron
11:10 < MrElendig> Zexaron: bs
11:10 < hey2> my macbook has no clickers
11:10 < stevendale> So it's only... 17 years
11:10 < MrElendig> Zexaron: feel free to write a similar tool for gnu/linux
11:10 < MrElendig> Zexaron: also, linux is just a kernel, why should it care about this?
11:10 < Zexaron> I would assume such tools to already exist, jeez
11:11 < MrElendig> Zexaron: this is a really strange use case....
11:11 < JanC> tools exist when people feel the need for them & write them...
11:11 < Zexaron> this should be a conf file, pretty standard type of flexibilty any kind and advanced OS that's positioning it self as a competitor should have
11:11 < MrElendig> Zexaron: patches welcomed
11:11 < hexnewbie> Yeah, spending money on a new mouse when your mouse buttons are malfunctioning is always a good idea. Having to work with broken buttons is a productivity killer (not to mention painful; I was on Windows at the time), and a new mouse costs less than a pizza.
11:12 < MrElendig> hexnewbie: or just swap the switch, usually trivial to do
11:13 < JanC> did you try cleaning that mouse internally?  :)
11:13 < MrElendig> new chinese omron clone costs 0.5€ including shipping
11:13 < ghulan> ;;
11:13 < Zexaron> Okay I had a moment of ghasp, but the point is, the mouse is not really old, so I'm stuck with it, the warranty is still but the company behind the mouse went bankrup
11:14 < hexnewbie> Well, I would also go bankrupt if my customers sent me back *all* their hardware for replacement
11:14 < milp_2> if i have 3 seperate disks and i create a swap partition on each one, will the kernel load-balance swap-IO?
11:14 < Zexaron> Plus, it's hard to get a new one because I want the ones with sidescroller, but MadCatz came back now, so it looks good
11:15 < MrElendig> milp_2: if you are using swap you are doing it wrong
11:15 < MrElendig> using as in relying on it
11:16 < MrElendig> will be slow as hell no matter what you do
11:16 < JanC> it can't really load balance swap IO
11:16 < milp_2> mrelendig: i know, but the shipment of memory upgrade has not arrived yet, its stuck in delivery and i need to work on this machine
11:16 < hexnewbie> Zexaron: Something I did when my mouse got out of warranty and I couldn't replace it anymore: Take apart a cheap mouse, unsolder the mouse button switch (some are for sale on the Internet so you can even buy a bag), and I replaced the switches on my fancy mouse.
11:16 < milp_2> uuh ok, so if i create a raid10 to use as swap, that would potenntially speed it up, wouldnt it?
11:17 < Zexaron> MrElendig: Allright, if I get serious about this, where would I start, I would like to put this directly into the linux distro or even kernel, not some fringe program that few people would even know exists ... should it be possible to do this in driver?
11:17 < JanC> milp_2: are you using zram already?
11:17 < hexnewbie> Zexaron: There used to be two kind of button switches underneath, but now they are only this type IIRC: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1kVVHKVXXXXa2XXXXq6xXFXXXB/10pcs-lot-tripod-font-b-mouse-b-font-font-b-switch-b-font-font-b-button.jpg
11:18 < milp_2> JanC: no, do you think that would help? Ive used it on android devices but with limited success
11:18 < hexnewbie> Zexaron: Even the middle button / wheel uses those, but since the wheel is special I would first check if that's the kind of switch it uses (may be something custom for your mouse type)
11:18 < MrElendig> 95% of the cases it is just a standard off the shelf omron switch (or one of the clones)
11:18 < Zexaron> hexnewbie: I have just finished a 6+ months of craze house maintenance, along with several soldering projects, my health has deteriorated significantly, so that's why for the last 3 and 2 more months all expenses go to health, that's why I liked to avoid doing hardware repair
11:19 < MrElendig> don't sniff the solder smoke
11:19 < hexnewbie> Zexaron: Give it to a friend to repair it (I have terrible hands, did my mouse myself, but when I had to solder my sound card - I called a friend)
11:20 < hey2> MrElendig: what
11:20 < hey2> solder smells great
11:20 < Zexaron> No it wasn't the smoke, it was stress, bad food habit, on top of existing digestive issues, I mixed too much bad food for a few months now I only need to eat light soups :(
11:20 < hexnewbie> I'm so bad at soldering that this mouse (still working) has the button switch PCB tracks separated from the PCB, so the switch floats up and down if you lift it (but the button works :D )
11:21 < Zexaron> Well there was a bit of smoke, I kept it ventilated, but that glue gun is also bad, anyone doing hot glue should watch out for that fumes too, headache
11:21 < MrElendig> could unmap the mouse button and enable the emulation
11:22 < MrElendig> hot glue usually doesn't give off much fumes at all
11:22 < hexnewbie> Zexaron: Or what MrElendig says. I enabled the third button emulation on one dying Logitech portable mouse. It's actually nicer in ways (you can't accidentally press that and scroll at the same time)
11:23 < MrElendig> https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pcs-Button-Switch-3Pin-Mouse-Switch-Microswitch-For-RAZER-Logitech-G700-Mouse/  etc
11:24 < Zexaron> But this should be doable in the drivers directly so it ships to most distros right? If I just plugged in my mouse and is using standard linux drivers right
11:24 < Zexaron> This one is RAT5
11:25 < Zexaron> In the end it's just a timer, "ignore until timer expires" ... but a proper solution would ofcourse be support for all the buttons, mouses have little buttons so it shouldn't be hard
11:26 < Dagmar> Buy less cheap hot glue
11:26 < Dagmar> I'm not even sure where I could buy hot glue that emits significant fumes
11:27 < hexnewbie> Zexaron: I suspect you could literally find which driver your system uses, edit the source and add 3 lines which suppress the event for 3 seconds. But that would be harder than soldering a new button. And less useful.
11:28 < Zexaron> Most of the time I enjoy such tweaking challenges, lots of history of that on windows
11:29 < Dagmar> You could always get fancy and use JB Weld
11:29 < Dagmar> It stinks, but it doesn't produce toxic fumes.  It's just a metal epoxy, which is conductive.
11:30 < hey2> lol
11:30 < hey2> jbweld fixes everything
11:30 < Zexaron> hexnewbie: I'm on latest linux mint, let's see
11:33 < treefrob> can jbweld be installed on mint?
11:39 < Lope> MrElendig: hexnewbie: this worked BTW. echo 'SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff", NAME="maineth"' >> /etc/udev/rules.d/70-mainnet-setup-link.rules
11:41 < Lope> BRB
11:55 < stevendale> Hi
12:00 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
12:00 < stevendale> Hi BluesKaj
12:00 < djph> o/
12:00 < stevendale> If you need help with Windows, I'm your man, otherwise - anyone else in the channel
12:01 < djph> you're probably in teh wrong channel then stevendale ...
12:01 < stevendale> djph ##windows isn't too friendly
12:01 < BluesKaj> hi stevendale, djph
12:01 < hey2> lol
12:01 < stevendale> They keep banning me for using XP
12:18 < HaMsTeRs> hello guys, is there any free gui diassembler for linux similar to ida pro with decompile to pseudo code?
12:23 < djph> well ...
12:23 < djph> HaMsTeRs: not that I'm aware of.
12:24 < djph> stevendale: maybe, I dunno ... stop using Windows altogether :)
12:24 < oscarcp> quick question guys. On the new f string interpolation (py3.6) is there any wa to pass the string to f without being implicit? example: f(variable_name) where variable name contains the string
12:26 < djph> oscarcp: perhaps ask in #python (##python?)
12:27 < oscarcp> oh crap, wrong channel! XDDD
12:27 < oscarcp> sorry
12:37 < no26> Hello
12:37 < no26> I have a troubleshooting using a PCI-card who emulate a parallel card
12:37 < no26> When I connect my card, the irq line are connected to the irq16 who are a IO-APIC fasteoi
12:37 < no26> I want to move the irq from fasteoi to edge-triggered
12:37 < no26> It's possible ?
12:39 < c-c> Bios?
12:42 < no26> ( On Linux )
12:43 < no26> I check the bios but it's not possible to change the irq line from it
12:43 < no26> The pci card use the physical irq11 line binded to virtual irq16 under linux
12:44 < CrazyH> Hwo do I check the spefic version of some random lib? I.E. an actual .so or .a file?
12:45 < djph> as far as I know, google for library.so.X.
12:46 < CrazyH> Isn't ldd supposted to do this... somehow? That's what I keep hearing, but no one ever tells me how. Also, google is not helping :-/
12:47 < CrazyH> libncurses.so.5 => /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libncurses.so.5  <-- basically, I need to find out the exact version of that. 5.x is not good enough
12:48 < CrazyH> having to use the package manager for that seem... retarded
12:48 < CrazyH> especially if I compiled it from source
12:50 < djph> CrazyH: ls -l?  seems a lot of them are symlinks -- e.g. /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libncurses.so.5 -> libncurses.so.5.9
12:52 < djph> granted that's just a stab in the dark
12:52 < stevendale> Just played Morrowind for the first time :P
12:52 < CrazyH> Thanks. I can't belive that's the solution to this... but it did reveal a sym link to version 5.9
12:59 < OS-36089> =============================================================
13:00 < OS-36089> How to Compile with old GCC ?
13:00 < OS-36089> for example, my Kali linux has gcc 6.0,  but I want to compile with gcc 4.0
13:00 < Stryyker> Why?
13:00 < djph> (1), don't use 72 = signs.   (2) have something with that ancient gcc available.
13:02 < OS-36089> @Stryyker,  because I want to run a binary  in an Old  linux machine
13:02 < OS-36089> and I dont have access to GCC in that machine
13:02 < OS-36089> I only know the version
13:02 < c-c> and you want to spam this chan? Go away
13:02 < stevendale> Be nice c-c
13:02 < OS-36089> so I want to compile in my own kali machine, but it has 6.0
13:03 < c-c> stevendale: I hope OS-36089 takes his = signs with him when he goes
13:03 < djph> c-c: agree
13:04 < OS-36089> c-c  /  djph  that was a wrong copy paste..   you only found that to comment ?
13:05 < stevendale> We have no evidence that OS-36089 is a 'he' :)
13:05 < OS-36089> @ stevendale, I can show you the evidence
13:05 < OS-36089> but Im afraid will hurt you
13:05 < djph> OS-36089: GCC is the GNU Compiler Collection ... its version isn't inherently linked to whether a binary will run or not given an older compiler -- the CPU architecture will matter more (as will shared objects)
13:05 < holyhit> hi, I have a blackscreen during play zak mckracken. Someone can help me?
13:06 < stevendale> OS-36089: Actually, I'm gay
13:06 < OS-36089> @ djph  thanks man,   the problem, when I compile with newest gcc,  and run this binary on the old linux, I hit many issues ..
13:06 < OS-36089> @djph  okey,  I see your point
13:07 < OS-36089> @ djph  seems  this is the wrong way of thinking
13:07 < OS-36089> @ djph thanks
13:08 < djph> ... this isn't twitter, you nitwit.
13:08 < jim> could be different libs, or different startup code or something along those lines, that originate from different compilers compiling stuff for the two linuxes
13:09 < djph> jim: yeah, I'd expect different libs or different CPU architecture as the two (easily checked) main culprits.  although, it's been ages since I've cross-compiled for *old* hardware.
13:10 < OS-36089> jim  thanks,  in fact, the confusion I have,  was thinking there is a mapping between  a Kernel version and GCC version
13:11 < OS-36089> and different GCC produce different ASM  for different Kernel
13:11 < stevendale> You could compile GCC 7 o/
13:11 < OS-36089> but seems my way of thinking is wrong
13:12 < SkunkyFone> OS-36089: the enter key is not to be used instead of punctuation.
13:12 < OS-36089> in fact, here is way I got confused:  when I compile my code in a system with GCC 4,  it work fine on the old target machine
13:12 < jim> no calling people ni twits (even if it does seem twitterlike)
13:12 < OS-36089> but when compiling with GCC 6 or 7  ,  the binary produce lot of errors in the target machine
13:13 < OS-36089> SkunkyFone  thanks , got it :)
13:13 < jim> OS-36089, it could be that two versions of gcc are compatible if their machine descriptions are compatible
13:14 < jim> in this case, we have two different gcc versions and either: two different gcc machine descriptsions, or two different sets of compiletime libs
13:14 < SkunkyFone> OS-36089: compiling on a system that's not been upgraded past gcc4 will most likely still have all the associated libraries from that era also....
13:16 < OS-36089> jim,  what do you mean please by "machine description" ?
13:17 < jim> , gcc is said to be "portable", which in the case of a compiler could also mean, you can make it produce asm code for a different cpu
13:17 < Hu4x3r1980> .
13:17 < jim> OS-36089, ^^
13:19 < elmomani> hello, I cant format me sdcard to fat32 ,using mkfs.fat32 doesn't give any errors but I see unknown file system in gparted.
13:20 < jim> elmomani, can you mount the card?
13:20 < elmomani> jim: no
13:20 < jim> do you get a message when you try?
13:20 < SkunkyFone> elmomani: what did you format? /dev/sdX, or /dev/sdX1 ?
13:21 < elmomani> sdbX
13:21 < elmomani> I mean sdb1
13:21 < jim> ok, and sdb1 exists on the card?
13:22 < no26> Hello everyone. I have a pci-card with a parallel-port controller in. When I insert my pci-card, in the os view (linux) the card become a "parallel port" and I can use the card like the standard parallel port. When I insert the pci-card, the operating system bind the card with the irq16 who are "fasteoi" type. I need to move these irq from fasteoi to edge-triggered irq. I don't know if it's possible ? Thanks in advance.
13:22 < elmomani> jim: which card ?
13:23 < jim> elmomani, didn't you say sdb is an sdcard?
13:23 < elmomani> yeah
13:23 < elmomani> I can find sdb and sdb1 in /dev
13:24 < jim> ahh, I see that you did... ok, and you created a partition on the card (probably with (g)parted?
13:24 < jim> which probably means the partition exists
13:25 < elmomani> yes that's correct, I created a fat32 partition but after it's done without any errors and reload disk it says unknown filesystem
13:25 < SkunkyFone> no26: not all pci devices can be edge triggered
13:25 < s10gopal> first bad commit is found but even after doing patch -R , the problem is not solved , it is required to do git bisect again ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1745646
13:25 < jim> what says unknown filesystem?
13:26 < no26> SkunkyFone: level-triggered at the finest ?
13:26 < elmomani> jim: I see on gparted sdb1 as unknown filesystem
13:27 < no26> SkunkyFone: The fasteoi cause me some trouble because of the infinite number of irq provided.
13:27 < jim> ok, could you try: mkfs -t vfat /dev/sdb1
13:27 < jim> (yes, it's probably syntatic sugar for the same thing)
13:28 < elmomani> yeah I did , it didnt give any errors but running fsck.fat after gives me logical sector is zero (which means unknown filesystem)
13:29 < SkunkyFone> elmomani: you don't have something trying to mount that filesystem as soon as it's built do you?  that'll make fsck barf, if it's already mounted...
13:30 < elmomani> SkunkyFone: I cant even mount that partition :) ,and I'm sure it's not mounted
13:31 < elmomani> so :3
13:31 < Dagmar> Simplest explanation at this point is that it's dead
13:32 < elmomani> should I try dd zero ?
13:33 < jim> no data you want on the sdcard?
13:33 < elmomani> yup
13:33 < azarus> elmomani: dd zero wastes a write cycle
13:33 < azarus> kill it even more dead xD
13:33 < elmomani> what's write cycle ? :#
13:33 < Dagmar> Check syslog/dmesg for the errors
13:33 < azarus> sd cards have limited amount of writes
13:34 < azarus> if you just overwrite it completely, you waste of one write cycle
13:34 < elmomani> really ? :O
13:34 < azarus> elmomani: of course, that's how sd cards die
13:34 < jim> well sdcards have little tiny electronics on it to do writes and reads and such... those electronics are fragile
13:34 < azarus> sd cards have very few write cycles
13:34 < elmomani> how many I can cycle it ?
13:34 < azarus> depends
13:34 < oiaohm> elmomani: very brand and quality dependant.
13:35 < azarus> ^^ what oiaohm said
13:35 < jim> that's why the first ssds were so bad
13:35 < elmomani> I have created and deleted a lot of partitions on it before it was broken
13:36 < oiaohm> elmomani: high grade sd cards will do over 3000 cycles no problems.   Some of the cheap card are lucky to do 100..
13:36 < elmomani> how I know if its broken cuz of write cycle ?
13:36 < jim> h ow big is the sdcard? was it a pretty expensive card?
13:37 < elmomani> not much expensive ,sdhc 8GB costs 10$
13:37 < azarus> ah, cheap sd card. i bet it's dead
13:37 < elmomani> how I could know ?
13:38 < azarus> check dmesg for errors?
13:38 < jim> also, what would you use such an sdcard for?
13:38 < elmomani> I use it for my phone
13:39 < elmomani> what the dmesg arguments should I give ?
13:39 < SkunkyFone> stick the card in the phone.  if the phone sees it, it should format it
13:43 < TJ-> Has anyone read (and absorbed) the paper on the new branch prediction attack on  Intel SGX etc via PHT (nicknamed BranchScope!)
13:56 < greenit> hi, is there an up-to-date site with notebooks compatible with linux and if not fully compatible what doesn't work?
13:57 < junka> h node
14:00 < greenit> hm... the notebook i'm interest in isn't listed there :/
14:01 < jkemppainen> that doesn't mean Linux won't work on it. it's largely a function of what specific hardware it is
14:01 < jkemppainen> which notebook is it? specs?
14:04 < greenit> hp envy x360 ryzen edition ; as far as i've read it somewhat works with the 4.16 kernel except the touchscreen. however, a site which states what works and what doesn't work would be nice :)
14:04 < TJ-> greenit: do a general web search along the lines of "+linux <make> <model> problems"
14:07 < ice9> cryptsetup open /dev/sdb  back; it doesn't ask about the passphrase, it does nothing; any idea?
14:08 < JimBuntu> TJ-, from what I see, instead of BTB, it's using the PHT.
14:09 < s10gopal> how to update bios ? hp only provide exe file , created a bios repair usb too , but os boots
14:10 < azarus> s10gopal: usb stick with freedos or something
14:10 < azarus> execute the exe from there
14:10 < TJ-> JimBuntu: yes.. the implications are in some ways worse that Spectre in that they can defeat ASLR, just 1 of several attacks shown. Inferring SGX content is a biggie too
14:10 < s10gopal> azarus: on windows 7 machine i created bios repair usb , and then inserted it on my laptop
14:11 < azarus> great
14:12 < s10gopal> azarus: when i select usb drive my boot devices , ubuntu boots
14:12 < azarus> well then your bios doesn't see it as bootable
14:13 < azarus> my suggestion still stands
14:13 < JimBuntu> TJ-, This shows that the good fight against general speculative exploits is going to be a lasting battle. We are probably only now starting to see the implications.
14:13 < s10gopal> azarus: can you please explain it ? or any doc ?
14:13 < jim> s10gopal, be very cautious if you're going to flash your motherboard's bios
14:14 < azarus> s10gopal: look it up
14:15 < revel> jim: What's the worst that could happen? :D
14:15 < TJ-> jim: yeah, its placing a heavy load on distro kernel teams too, not to mention the churn in kernel upgrades to users as the various spectre patches have caused so many regressions
14:15 < TJ-> s10gopal: prove the USb is bootable by using a virtual machine first
14:15 < Masterboy> hi there :) does anyone know how could I check if I have a usb-c usb 3.1 gen 2 10 gbps controller? lsusb does not show it. any other commands I could try?
14:16 < Masterboy> i know physically I have a usb-c port with ubs 3.1 gen 2 but i don't know if linux sees it and i don't have a usb-c device...
14:17 < Masterboy> lsusb shows a usb2 and a usb 3 hub but no usb 3.1 :/
14:18 < TJ-> Masterboy: does "lsusb -v -d VVVV:PPPP" not show that info?
14:18 < TJ-> Masterboy: here I see, for a hub, "bcdUSB               3.00"
14:21 < Masterboy> TJ-, the command shows only usb 3 and usb 2 not usb-c 3.1 gen 2 :/
14:22 < Masterboy> TJ-, unfortunately i don't have a usb-c device to check if the port is working
14:23 < TJ-> Masterboy: how about "sudo lshw -C bus -enable usb" and look at the 'capabilities' of the usbhost devices?
14:23 < gr8> can you recommend me a solid calendar solution for Linux? Something like Thunderbird Lightning.
14:26 < Masterboy> TJ-, i see two usbhosts one usb 3 other usb 2. Maybe i don't see usb 3.1 gen 2 because it is a pci express controller?
14:27 < Masterboy> TJ-, my pc is intel nuc7i3 it has advertised usb 3.1 gen 2 :/
14:28 < TJ-> Masterboy: which bus the USB controller is attached to should make no difference on how it's capabilities are reported
14:28 < Masterboy> TJ-, i am trying to find any info on the usb-c usb 3.1 gen 2, dp 1.2 controller in linux...
14:28 < okamis_> ll
14:29 < Masterboy> TJ-, okay, i will try to reset my bios and try again?
14:30 < TJ-> Masterboy: this seems to be relavent commit:  ea7d0d69426c 2017-10-17 10:38:12 +0200 N Mathias Nyman xhci: Identify USB 3.1 capable hosts by their port protocol capability
14:30 < Masterboy> TJ-, i am on kernel 4.13 ubuntu 17
14:31 < TJ-> Masterboy: also this: 5da665fcec1a 2016-02-03 13:20:54 -0800 N Mathias Nyman xhci: USB 3.1 add default Speed Attributes to SuperSpeedPlus device capability
14:35 < Masterboy> TJ-, i don't really know what to make of it :/ what should i do?
14:35 < fly> where do I complain if one of the licenses in the linux-firmware tree is broken? ;)
14:36 < Masterboy> TJ-, this my lsusb -v https://paste.gnome.org/pgxgo10mm
14:37 < section1> Masterboy, check dmsg for example i have this line: xhci_hcd 0000:03:00.0: Host supports USB 3.1 Enhanced SuperSpeed
14:38 < section1> dmesg*
14:44 < s10gopal> when i extract my bios i get .bin and s12 files
14:45 < s10gopal> how to obtain .sio ?
14:45 < s10gopal> iso
14:46 < peetaur2> why should a bios have an iso?
14:46 < Masterboy> section1, see https://paste.gnome.org/plsdlxfca my dmesg | grep xhci_hcd   no such line...
14:46 < Masterboy> section1, but i don't have a device attached to it.
14:46 < s10gopal> peetaur2: i want to update my laptop's bios but when i created bootable ubs with hp software it dont boot
14:46 < c-c> Isn't iso a CD-Rom ISO9600 format image. Nothing to do with bios.
14:47 < peetaur2> an iso is some bootable thing or fs, or whatever, and those files would not be something you boot...they would be something you use with some other tool likely on a FreeDOS (maybe iso) or efi shell (likely not iso) sort of media that would burn them on the board.
14:47 < s10gopal> usb
14:47 < s10gopal> peetaur2: i am following it https://askubuntu.com/questions/46886/how-to-create-a-bootable-usb-stick-to-flash-a-bios
14:47 < peetaur2> which tool did you use to write the hp software?
14:48 < peetaur2> rather than some ubuntu specific howto, you should be using the one that comes with this HP software
14:48 < section1> Masterboy, too en lsusb shows like : bcdUSB               3.10
14:48 < s10gopal> peetaur2: https://support.hp.com/us-en/drivers/selfservice/swdetails/hp-15-ay000-notebook-pc-series/10862300/model/11543879/swItemId/ob-206804-1
14:48 < section1> Masterboy, my kernel is 4.15.4
14:48 < s10gopal> and creating usb drive from windows 7
14:49 < Masterboy> section1, no i don't see lsusb showing 3.1 :/
14:50 < peetaur2> s10gopal: it has links to an exe file...is that what you wrote to the USB stick?
14:50 < peetaur2> or is that a self extracting archive?
14:50 < Masterboy> section1, but my hardware is advertised as 3.1 gen 2 capable
14:51 < s10gopal> peetaur2: it has option to make usb bootable
14:51 < Bheam> so
14:52 < Masterboy> section1, lspci -tv shows https://paste.gnome.org/p9dpf16mn
14:52 < Bheam> i'm setting up a webserver at a vps i don't trust 100%, how can i make it so they can't access my data even in rescue/single user mode, but i can access it (through ssh) and apache works?
14:54 < JimBuntu> Bheam, I don't think you can... if they have physical access... they could do most anything.
14:54 < ananke> Bheam: at-rest encryption. LUKS for example. however, you would need to have out-of-band access to the system to be able to enter passwords at boot.
14:54 < s10gopal> peetaur2: and when i tried to extract it win rar it generates .bin and .s12
14:55 < peetaur2> is there an exe extracted too?
14:55 < stevendale> Does somebody need help extracting exes?
14:55 < section1> Masterboy, i see ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1142 USB 3.1 Host Controller in my hardware.... so looks like your hardware not have a 3.1 adapter..or its disable..
14:56 < peetaur2> generally such a download has either just the bin files and then the utility you use is in the BIOS/EFI menus (gigabyte does it this way), or it has an .exe and an .efi file plus the bin, and you use the freedos (for exe) or UEFI shell (for the .efi) to install the bin
14:56 < Bheam> how about some kind of vm that i can turn on disk encryption in?
14:56 < Bheam> can i run a vm on a vps?
14:56 < peetaur2> so maybe you have the gigabyte way...so try making a non-bootable fat32 and stick these files on it, plus the original exe just in case, and see if the bios/efi menu has some way to list the file and use it
14:56 < peetaur2> oh and....documentation :D which if read, solves all these problems without any guessing :)
14:57 < peetaur2> since the link you sent seems to have none, I'd hope that .exe is an archive that contains some
14:59 < s10gopal> peetaur2: what to do ?
14:59 < Masterboy> section1, thanks i try to default my bios
14:59 < peetaur2> s10gopal: find some instructions to read
14:59 < peetaur2> or explore the bios/efi menus for a firmware updater thing
15:00 < s10gopal> peetaur2: please read it , https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1745646 , i found bad commit but even after doing patch -p1 R battery draines on v4.13
15:04 < no26> lel port. When I insert the pci-card, the operating system bind the card with the irq16 who are "fasteoi" type. I need to move these irq from fasteoi to level-triggered irq. Do you know how can I do that ?
15:04 < no26> lel port. When I insert the pci-card, the operating system bind the card with the irq16 who are "fasteoi" type. I need to move these irq from fasteoi to level-triggered irq. Do you know how can I do that ?
15:04 < no26> I have a pci-card with a parallel-port controller in. When I insert my pci-card, in the operating system view the card become a "parallel port" and I can use the card like the standard parallel port. When I insert the pci-card, the operating system bind the card with the irq16 who are "fasteoi" type. I need to move these irq from fasteoi to level-triggered irq. Do you know how can I do that ?
15:05 < peetaur2> lel spam...one time is enough
15:05 < JimBuntu> no26, You should mention your OS, kernel, etc instead of posting the same thing multiple times.
15:05 < peetaur2> and unfortunately I have no idea what you're talking about.... you have a pcie card that you hot plug? (thunderbolt?); do people still use parallel ports these days? (these old things? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port )
15:06 < JimBuntu> Oh... and name the BIOS and version and motherboard.
15:06 < peetaur2> and if it's an xyproblem, how about what the original problem is
15:10 < greenit> what's the filesystem you would recommend for a new notebook with a NVMe M.2 SSD ?
15:11 < no26> JimBuntu: i'm sorry, c/c mistake.
15:11 < dgurney> f2fs
15:11 < Psi-Jack> greenit: I generally recommend XFS for everything
15:11 < greenit> I've been thinking about ext4 or btrfs, tending more towards ext4, but i wanted to know if there are better options
15:11 < Psi-Jack> XFS > ext4
15:12 < no26> I'm actually under Xubuntu 16.04.4 64bits,  kernel 4.13.0-38. My motherboard is adventech 19ak610520 and the bios is Amibios 080015
15:12 < dgurney> well, f2fs is made for flash devices, hence why I recommend it for well... flash devices. both XFS and btrfs are also good options
15:13 < JimBuntu> no26, no worries, seriously though, those details (which I see you have now posted) can make the difference in getting support. My next post is for everyone, don't take it personally.
15:13 < JimBuntu> !patience | no26
15:13 < Psi-Jack> f2fs is ... Not that great either.
15:14 < peetaur2> with btrfs, remember that you're getting lots of awesome features, but also more bugs than most filesystems...so be more strict about backups and having rescue media handy
15:14 < no26> What's " !patience " ?
15:14 < Psi-Jack> JimBuntu: This isn't #ubuntu. :)
15:14 < dgurney> elaborate
15:14 < lupine> the only valid usecase for btrfs is "ext4+reflinks"
15:14 < JimBuntu> no26, in some channels it causes a bot to mention that this is IRC, responses can take time, be patient. like Psi-Jack points out, it's from another channel
15:15 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: Most of what f2fs does for performance, most SSD's firmware already does internally now.
15:15 < c-c> What about encrypted fs?
15:15 < lupine> that's better done by luks
15:15 < no26> JimBuntu: Oh ok :) i'm sorry i don't usually use irc :)
15:15 < Gollee> c
15:15 < dgurney> doesn't make it a bad filesystem though
15:15 < lupine> sure, it's just an extra feature you shouldn't use
15:15 < no26> But I have this problem and I really don't know how and where I can find any kind of solution/way to solve
15:16 < Psi-Jack> The other factor is, f2fs isn't native.
15:16 < dgurney> huh
15:16 < c-c> Wait, I thought encryption is native in ext4
15:16 < lupine> nah, as it shouldn't be
15:16 < Psi-Jack> c-c: Uh no.
15:16 < revel> Psi-Jack: What makes a filesystem ethnic?
15:16 < dgurney> ^
15:17 < c-c> I probably mis-interpret "transparent"
15:17 < noodlepie> Hiya guys!
15:17 < Psi-Jack> revel: Your question makes 0% sense.
15:17 < lupine> if you want fs-level encryption, encfs is a better choice than btrfs anyway
15:17 < revel> Psi-Jack: What makes a filesystem native?
15:17 < dgurney> f2fs is mainlined, how more "native" can a filesystem be?
15:17 < lupine> but you probably actually want block-level encryption, in which case luks is better
15:18 < c-c> personally I only encrypt individual files, but sometimes wonder if should adopt something diff, if need arises
15:18 < Psi-Jack> Oh, it's been added since 3.8? I stand corrected there. :)
15:18 < Psi-Jack> c-c: diff is a tool, not a word.
15:19 < c-c> Psi-Jack: just pipe the current and new approach to it ;)
15:21 < snatcher> sync hangs on, even cannot shutdown now, is there a way to kill it? kill -9 doesn't work
15:22 < c-c> snatcher: elevate to sudo and retry?
15:22 < revel> snatcher: Do you have sysrq keys?
15:22 < c-c> uh, to root
15:22 < snatcher> c-c: root already
15:23 < snatcher> revel: no, support disabled in kernel
15:23 < sveinse> Have any of you had any strange behaviour by pixz? I'm trying to decompress a xz -9 tar on a armhf embedded target and it seems to do strange things (crash?) leaving tar very confused
15:23 < revel> Can't suggest REISUB then.
15:23 < sveinse> As in should I start to mistrust the tool?
15:24 < dgurney> never understood why people/distributors disable sysrq keys
15:25 < noodlepie> Linux 4.16.0 stable here. Woohoo!
15:25 < snatcher> dgurney: some sort of protection against evil maid attack
15:25 < c-c> snatcher: can you see if the process is doing IO? iotop
15:25 < sveinse> Could it be low on resources, such as mem. What does the kernel do to a process if it runs out of memory? And how will a  cmd <file | tar  behave if cmd is killed?
15:25 < revel> dgurney: Maybe if you don't want someone being able to mess up some stuff with physical access, though at a password screen.
15:25 < snatcher> c-c: yep, it uses 99.99%
15:25 < noodlepie> What distro people running?
15:26 < canopy> noodlepie: Void!
15:26 < c-c> snatcher: yes, but is it doing IO
15:26 < revel> noodlepie: Same one as you.
15:26 < CoolerZ> hey
15:26 < hexnewbie> sveinse: Decompress shouldn't take a lot of memory. Like, 64 MiB * number_of_cpus.
15:26 < CoolerZ> anyone used the pbc library?
15:26 < noodlepie> I'm on Gentoo on my laptop and Debian on our communal PC - mainly because it has binary packages whereas Gentoo builds them locally from source.
15:27 < hexnewbie> sveinse: That's for -9, -9 requires exactly 64 MiB, multiplied by the number of threads/workers decompressing.
15:27 < dgurney> as far as I'm concerned, if someone is already using my computer without my permission, the least of my concerns is someone using some sysrq functionality on it...
15:28 < sveinse> hexnewbie: yeah, I have more than that available. strange why it consitently crashes on -9
15:28 < JimBuntu> revel, Shall we revisit the X lock screen issues? lol
15:28 < greenit> ok, so I'll take xfs into consideration, thanks :)
15:28 < hexnewbie> sveinse: Hm. Don't take my word on it. Although I'm not sure if the pipe wouldn't need memory to store data decompressed by secondary threads to make it continuous. Maybe install time, and run /usr/bin/time pixz
15:28  * noodlepie likes to program ARM assembler - my Android for example! I learned it at school before ARM were famous! :P Built me a 3d model viewer in it too.
15:28 < hexnewbie> sveinse: /usr/bin/time -v pixz
15:28 < revel> Let's say there's no X session and no VTs are logged into?
15:28 < revel> Either way though, I don't personally think disabling them is a good idea.
15:29 < revel> JimBuntu: Sure, why not.
15:29 < hexnewbie> sveinse: You are *decompressing*, right? -9 was used earlier during the compression, not now?
15:29 < dgurney> indeed, it's not
15:29 < sveinse> hexnewbie: Correct, decompressing
15:33 < sveinse> I'm testing what compressor to use for a product upgrade. Where image size vs decompressor cpu complexity comes into play. So I'm iterating through all -# of pixz and pigz, and this is where I found the surprising stop or crash on a tar.xz compressed with -9
15:36 < ananke> -9 is not something I'd even consider using. ever. the cost to benefit ratio is absurdly low
15:37 < sveinse> Agreed. The dilemma is this: If it fails on -9, how can I prove that it is robust enough on any other values?
15:41 < ksk> sveinse: image compressing only? mabe take a look at the google algos, like brotli et al.
15:43 < ananke> sveinse: not sure if that's even a reasonable assumption. redlining my car at 9k rpms and failing doesn't mean it's not suited for 3-5k work
15:44 < sveinse> ananke: but a car redlining in an explanation to why it fails. So until some kind of failure evidence exits, you can't make that assumption either
15:45 < ksk> whats your problem actually? pigz error on some compression settings? did you look for upstream bugs (like at pigz projecT)?
15:45 < ananke> sveinse: you haven't been able to repeat that with options other than -9, is that correct?
15:46 < sveinse> Don't get me wrong, I'm not oposing pixz, I'm just trying to assess if it is viable for production use. I came here curious if this was known in the community
15:46 < sveinse> ananke: no, I haven't
15:46 < ananke> pixz/pigz/pbzip2 are mature enough that using them under normal conditions is a safe bet
15:46 < sveinse> good
15:47 < ananke> sveinse: and try without -9 :)
15:48 < sveinse> ananke: yup. And I said, I'm testing all values to see what is the crosspoint between image size and cpu consumption. It's for sure not -9
15:58 < CodeBug> hey room
16:01 < paddy|> hello CodeBug, whats up?
16:11 < CodeBug> not much paddy
16:11 < CodeBug> how are you
16:12 < superkuh> GIMP. You know I love you but... moving text layers should not be a herculean feat that takes 5 tries. No I don't want to move the background layer. Having to click on the exact pixels of the text... janky.
16:12 < noodlepie> Hiya all. 4.16.0-gentoo running stable here.
16:12 < CodeBug> ok im back
16:15 < frostschutz> superkuh, the move tool has the option to pick whatever pixel you touched, or just the active layer in general. just change it
16:15 < superkuh> !
16:15 < superkuh> So it does. Thank you frostschutz.
16:16 < superkuh> All these years and I never bothered to look at the toolbox bar options for 'move' because... it's move, what options would it have?
16:25 < AbleBacon> join #okchat
16:25 < AbleBacon> oops sorry forgot the slash
16:27 < CodeBug> lol
16:27 < CodeBug> okchat?
16:28 < interrobang> does anyone knows a good apache/svn channel?
16:28 < interrobang> the #httpd seems to be nearly dead
16:29 < jamiejackson> hi folks. how do i retrieve the effective value of user.max_user_namespaces ? `sysctl user.max_user_namespaces` yields `unknown oid 'user.max_user_namespaces'`. maybe that implies a value of zero?
16:31 < Psi-Jack> interrobang: #httpd is not dead.
16:32 < interrobang> Psi-Jack, i know--. but nobody responds
16:32 < Psi-Jack> They do/
16:32 < interrobang> no :D
16:32 < Psi-Jack> Yes
16:32 < interrobang> not to me :(
16:32 < Psi-Jack> Then you didn't ask a question.
16:33 < interrobang> of course
16:35 < Lope> I found this cool song about open source/linux that I'm inspired to share https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UsKYsLSGpU&t=3m51s\
16:35 < Psi-Jack> Also, patience. :)
16:36 < jamiejackson> some channels are dead, despite lots of users seeming to be present, but #httpd isn't one of those, interrobang. i typically get good support there.
16:36 < Psi-Jack> Exactly.
16:36 < Psi-Jack> Unless it's a weekend, especially a holday weekend. ;)
16:36 < Lope> Ah I messed up the URL when I pressed \enter by mistake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UsKYsLSGpU&t=3m51s
16:37 < Hdphn> hi folks
16:37 < Hdphn> what distro and de have settled your distrohopping?
16:38 < Hdphn> have tried kali, ubuntu, arch as  main OSes
16:38 < Hdphn> still looking for perfect distro lol
16:39 < busybox42> Are we talking about desktop OSes?  I prefer Arch over anything else.
16:39 < pottsy> doesn't exist for all use cases
16:40 < rumpel> I want distros to be breedable
16:40 < pottsy> I've settled on ubuntu or debian nonfree for most desktops
16:40 < Hdphn> busybox42: arch  is cool however I am tired of maintaining  it
16:40 < Psi-Jack> Lope: Hmmmm. I didn' tlike it, personally.
16:40 < Hdphn> pottsy: used  arch?
16:40 < pottsy> Hdphn yeah.
16:40 < Hdphn> I want a linux that gets  work done lol
16:41 < Hdphn> otherwise I have to fallback to windows 10 WSL
16:41 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: Kali? Main OS? Pfft.. Newbie.
16:41 < Hdphn> because I need something stable
16:41 < pottsy> too many breaks with regular croned updates
16:41 < Hdphn> Psi-Jack: why not? its  just debian + tools
16:41 < Hdphn> lol
16:41 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: Wrong
16:41 < pottsy> Kali is such bloat but I actually use it for one of my main dev rigs
16:41 < busybox42> Arch isn't that bad to maintain as a desktop.  But ya sometimes things can be pesky at times.  I just don't think I could give up the aur for any other distro.
16:41 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: It's locked down intentionally.
16:42 < Hdphn> busybox42: overtime arch also got  sluggish
16:42 < Hdphn> in performance
16:42 < pottsy> because it always has libs already installed because its 10 million packages with dependancies
16:42 < Yamakaja> Argh, why do people like this guy get to have all the hardware xD https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVik6mzTCurdJmvdj5dCa7A - He's strictly a windows & VMWare user
16:42 < Hdphn> y wrong? Psi-Jack
16:42 < busybox42> Hdphn: Uhh no it doesn't.  I've had the same install for 4 years.  Why would it get sluggish?
16:42 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: "why" not "y" for future self corrections.
16:42 < Psi-Jack> busybox42: Well, spinning HDD's can degrade over time. :)
16:42 < Hdphn> busybox42: what DE?
16:43 < Hdphn> no.using sandisk SSD ;)
16:43 < Psi-Jack> SanDisk? Ewww. heh
16:43 < pottsy> nand dies as well :/
16:43 < Psi-Jack> No wonder.
16:44 < Hdphn> maybe coz I am not using any ssd specific settings on my current distro
16:44 < Hdphn> arch
16:44 < pottsy> that's where you hide your malware, in "dead" NAND  :)
16:44 < Hdphn> such as fstrim?
16:50 < nolsen> Why do I have exactly 0 bytes of free space on /boot, despite removing all the old kernels, and literally only have one kernel left on apt?
16:50 < nolsen> What's taking all the space, when there's only one kernel installed.
16:52 < Hdphn> lightdm or
16:52 < Hdphn> gdm
16:52 < Hdphn> ??..
16:52 < SkunkyFone> nolsen: are you root, or a user?
16:53 < nolsen> SkunkyFone: Well, does that matter? Since I can root in anytime, if that's what you're asking.
16:53 < SkunkyFone> nolsen: check how much space is free as root... and keep in mind that the filesystem won't give the space back if the file is still open
16:53 < CrazyTux> hello, between Kubuntu LTS and KDE Neon which is more recommended?
16:53 < SkunkyFone> nolsen: filesystems usually reserve a % of space for root only
16:54 < nolsen> SkunkyFone: Well, the total free space in /boot is *literally* 0 bytes.
16:54 < SkunkyFone> nolsen: umount the filesystem and remount it?
16:55 < nolsen> What would that do?
16:56 < CrazyTux> hello
17:01 < nolsen> SkunkyFone: Anyways, do you or anyone would know what could be taking the entire partition, when there's only one kernel according to apt intalled?
17:01 < nolsen> Perhaps something I need to delete manually in /boot?
17:02 < gtrmtx> how should i go about redirecting all sip requests to a different address?
17:03 < SkunkyFone> nolsen: something's still got a filehandle open would be my guess.
17:04 < nolsen> SkunkyFone: I rebooted it multiple times.
17:04 < CodeBug> hey room
17:04 < CodeBug> hows it going
17:04 < SkunkyFone> nolsen: no . files?
17:04 < SkunkyFone> nolsen: nothing in lost+found?
17:04 < treefrob> rooms don't go
17:05 < kavity> Hello CodeBug, it is going well, and yourself?
17:05 < nolsen> SkunkyFone: none in the root directory.
17:05 < SkunkyFone> nolsen: wouldn't be in the root dir, would be in /boot, if /boot is the partition that's full
17:05 < nolsen> According to 'du', 400845 KB (or MB, forgot what du uses), is in .
17:06 < kavity> `du -h`
17:06 < nolsen> and for the directories: 12, 2354, 127, 2882, 7442
17:06 < nolsen> each
17:07 < SkunkyFone> why are there directories in /boot ?
17:09 < nolsen> SkunkyFone: https://cloud.nolsen.xyz/s/8iB76w7eJGfXjdF
17:09 < nolsen> SkunkyFone: Because /boot always has directories?
17:09 < kavity> nolsen: Since when?
17:09 < nolsen> kavity: Look at the screenshot I sent.
17:10 < kavity> I meant since when does /boot have directories. :O
17:10 < nolsen> And since I seen /boot, atleast.
17:11 < kavity> Neither this box, my server or my rpi have directories...
17:11 < nolsen> Well, you're probably running a different distro
17:11 < nolsen> This is Ubuntu.
17:11 < kavity> Ubuntu studio on this box.
17:11 < nolsen> But this is really not the problem I'm trying to solve.
17:12 < kavity> Yeah, sorry, I don't even know what you're trying to solve, I just had never seen directories in /boot.
17:12 < nolsen> My problem is what's taking all the space, despite having one kernel installed on apt.
17:12 < nolsen> kavity: Well, I can tell you this: Remove the directories = Unbootable.
17:12 < nolsen> Or huge problems.
17:13 < nolsen> I might be wrong, but I rather not try.
17:13 < kavity> nolsen: `df -h` tell you where your space is taken up?
17:13 < nolsen> /dev/sdc2                            473M  394M   55M  88% /boot
17:13 < SkunkyFone> ahhhh, efi system.  yes, will have directories.
17:14 < nolsen> What? You have obsolete machines without EFI?
17:14 < nolsen> or have it disabled, for some reason?
17:14 < kavity> What makes it obsolete? :O
17:14 < SkunkyFone> nolsen: can you find /boot and paste it somewhere?
17:14 < nolsen> ...nevermind
17:14 < nolsen> wym find boot?
17:14 < SkunkyFone> rpi has no efi :)
17:14 < SkunkyFone> i wanna know everything that's in /boot
17:15 < nolsen> https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?a0f1d805f3f2157b#wi/d5W+09daAy3jFPX8vo0ek+LWOonOlHoE1CMo5Iug=
17:16 < nolsen> Oh, wait a minute.
17:16 < nolsen> I didn't see those.
17:16 < nolsen> I can just remove those old initrd
17:18 < chindy> I used lxappearance to change the themes of my windows. Now I have a bright theme on all my applications except all KDE based applications, these still have some dark theme. How can I change this ?
17:19 < nolsen> Alright, now I have space now.
17:19 < kavity> Hooray!
17:19 < kavity> :>
17:25  * Psi-Jack takes all nolsen's space.
17:31 < Lope> Can't stop the SUSE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Rn0iQEpc8
17:31 < Psi-Jack> Lope: that's a bit better. :0
17:32 < Psi-Jack> At least it's not insulting Linux or opensource. :)
17:43 < CrazyTux> please help me. I am getting this error when I try to mount a partition on my laptop. Error mounting /dev/sda8 at /media/s/18ca759f-9dd1-412e-9766-f53505a32ffb: Command-line `mount -t "ext4" -o "uhelper=udisks2,nodev,nosuid" "/dev/sda8" "/media/s/18ca759f-9dd1-412e-9766-f53505a32ffb"' exited with non-zero exit status 32: mount: /dev/sda8: can't read superblock
17:43 < Lope> Psi-Jack:  CODE TOGETHER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9aLiv5M6AQ
17:44 < Psi-Jack> heh./ sda8? Why do you have so many partitions?
17:45 < dr4ken> guys, what does mean the "aligment" part in gparted? i mean it gives 2 options, i always used MiB one, but i wonder what does do aligning to cylinder
17:45 < Tahlwyn> someone here may be able to help me with this. I need a plaintext list of a shitload of "random" town/settlement/city names, preferably not major cities that exist irl.
17:46 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, is there any solution for it?
17:46 < Psi-Jack> Tahlwyn: Got a Linux question?
17:47 < Tahlwyn> No, sorry. Just not having any luck elsewhere. my bad.
17:48 < Tahlwyn> (also, I thought I was somewhere else oops)
17:48 < Psi-Jack> Uh huh..
17:48 < Psi-Jack> Heh
17:49 < nobrain> Psi-Jack: not a linux question either but, can I have your belongings when you die?
17:50 < Psi-Jack> No
17:51 < nobrain> why, it's not like you are going to need them
17:51 < djph> I already had dibs.
17:51 < Psi-Jack> Because my wife would not approve
17:51 < Psi-Jack> Heh
17:56 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: why do you have so many partitions? And how did you get that error, what steps did you perform etc.
17:57 < widp> I am using ubuntu, and wanted finer control over what I uninstall.
17:57 < widp> Especially since I've started building packages from source.
17:57 < widp> What's a good way to handle this?
17:57 < djph> errr ... gentoo?
17:58 < TJ-> widp: what do you need to uninstall?
17:59 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, that partition was accessible just mintutes back. I was using Ubuntu Mate LTS. Suddenly the OS stopped responding. After I restarted it and tried to access this partition I got this error.
17:59 < widp> no, no, not gentoo.
17:59 < widp> I am just looking for best practices, I saw checkinstall mentioned somewhere.
18:01 < dr4ken> guys, what does mean the "aligment" part in gparted? i mean it gives 2 options, i always used MiB one, but i wonder what does do aligning to cylinder
18:01 < Tahlwyn> djph: should have suggested lfs, don't want to look like a noob
18:02 < CrazyTux> please, is there any solution?
18:03 < TJ-> dr4ken: in the days of spinning disks addressed by Cylinder/Head/Sector the idea of alignment was to avoid un-necessary head seeks
18:04 < dr4ken> TJ-, you know people still uses HDD?
18:04 < dr4ken> but ok i see
18:08 < P_B> most data is still on magnetic media...
18:08 < logithack> ive created a desktop shortcut to execute a script. im trying to have it executed in a terminal window. ive set Terminal=true in the shortcut file, but it fails saying that it cant start xterm (no such file or directory) cos its not installed. how can i tell it to use my terminal of choice in that situation?
18:08 < the_drow> Hi, I have an LXC container that accepts ssh connections only from specific IPs. I'd like to spoof my ip during my automated tests to ensure I can connect to ssh from those IPs.
18:08 < CodeBug> how come du -s isn't working in CentOS?
18:09 < CodeBug> it should show every file and their corresponding sizes right?
18:09 < the_drow> I tried iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -p icmp -j SNAT --to-source 192.168.1.66 but I still can't connect
18:10 < the_drow> Maybe I shouldn't match on icmp?
18:10 < CodeBug> Any ideas? the_drow
18:12 < CodeBug> ???
18:14 < JimBuntu> CodeBug, isn't "-s" for summary ?
18:14 < CodeBug> yes.
18:14 < CodeBug> but its not giving me the summary
18:15 < JimBuntu> Are you getting any output?
18:16 < CodeBug> just the overall file size.
18:16 < TJ-> the_drow: how is a rule applying to ICMP going to help a TCP connection to port 22?
18:16 < JimBuntu> CodeBug, if you run `du -s`... you are asking du to give you a single line that shows the total disk use.
18:16 < dr4ken> P_B, wait, the info about Cylinder aligned disk doesnt apply to normal magnetic mediums (like HDD) ??
18:17 < P_B> yes, it does apply to normal magnetic media
18:17 < CodeBug> yup but i wanted Du to give me the list of files and their sizes respectively
18:18 < P_B> But you asked if people still use hard drives, as if everything is on SSD now.
18:18 < JimBuntu> CodeBug, as in `du` ?
18:18 < the_drow> TJ-, Good question. It doesn't help when I change it to tcp though
18:18 < CodeBug> yes
18:18 < CodeBug> omg.
18:19 < the_drow> TJ-, I'm following https://sandilands.info/sgordon/address-spoofing-with-iptables-in-linux which says "The -p icmp option is a condition for the rule: packets must be using the protocol ICMP (this rule will not apply to non-ICMP packets)"
18:19 < the_drow> NOT
18:19 < the_drow> I'm dysgraphic. Sorry
18:20 < puff> Good afternoon.  Anyone else seeing Google Chrome just suck up all your CPU?  Like over 100%?  This seems to have started occurring constantly,  a week or three ago.  Chrome's Task manager says it's not any extension or particular page, it's the "Browser" line that's at 105%.
18:20 < CodeBug> JimBuntu, left you a DM
18:20 < dr4ken> P_B, well, that was TJ- was implying, but yeah i think most data is still on magnetic mediums
18:20 < jelly> puff, how many tabs are open?
18:21 < P_B> ah I get what you were saying now. My bad.
18:21 < ayecee> puff: nope
18:21 < TJ-> the_drow: yes, and you said you want to spoof for SSH which is a TCP protocol. So you want "-p tcp" You should also be specifying the interface (lxcbr0 ? or destination IP address) so as not to affect other traffic on the host
18:22 < jelly> mine uses 50-120% but I have a zillion tabs open
18:22 < the_drow> TJ-, How do I specify the destination IP?
18:22 < puff> jelly: 11
18:22 < CrazyTux> hello..
18:23 < TJ-> the_drow: "--destination 1.2.3.4" (or '-d' for short)
18:23 < TJ-> the_drow: see "man iptables" and "man iptables-extensions"
18:24 < the_drow> thanks
18:27 < the_drow> TJ-, Even with iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -p tcp -j SNAT --to-source 10.0.3.3 --destination 10.0.3.133 I'm not able to connect to ssh. It does spoof the IP though
18:28 < TJ-> the_drow: are you monitoring the incoming packets on the container's interface (using tcpdump) to ensure the packets arrive?
18:28 < the_drow> Yes
18:28 < TJ-> the_drow: do you see the packets arriving then?
18:28 < the_drow> http://dpaste.com/3ZYWX2C
18:28 < the_drow> no
18:30 < Li> what's the mouse configuration file on debian based linux? what option causes the mouse curser to move longer distance from the same sliding action?
18:30 < CrazyTux> please help me. I am getting this error when I try to mount a partition on my laptop. Error mounting /dev/sda8 at /media/s/18ca759f-9dd1-412e-9766-f53505a32ffb: Command-line `mount -t "ext4" -o "uhelper=udisks2,nodev,nosuid" "/dev/sda8" "/media/s/18ca759f-9dd1-412e-9766-f53505a32ffb"' exited with non-zero exit status 32: mount: /dev/sda8: can't read superblock
18:31 < Pentode> Li, you use xset for this and put the settings in ~/.Xresources
18:31 < Pentode> otherwise the desktop environment takes care of it if you are using one
18:31 < Li> thanks Pentode
18:31 < mawk> CrazyTux: your drive could be dead
18:32 < CrazyTux> mawk, how can I revive that, then?
18:32 < CrazyTux> mawk, all the data on that drive gone, then?
18:32 < ksk> CrazyTux: you cannot. there are companies that do that, for many many $$$$$
18:33 < ksk> CrazyTux: you could create an image of that disk, and try fiddling with the copy
18:33 < mawk> it's not gone CrazyTux
18:33 < mawk> what happened to the drive ? you dropped it ?
18:33 < ksk> however, your original disk might destroy itself even further on reading data
18:33 < CrazyTux> then, any solutions?
18:33 < mawk> dump the drive somewhere, run testdisk on that
18:33 < CrazyTux> that partition was accessible just mintutes back. I was using Ubuntu Mate LTS. Suddenly the OS stopped responding. After I restarted it and tried to access this partition I got this error.
18:34 < mawk> oh ok
18:34 < CrazyTux> mawk, how can I dump the drive?
18:34 < mawk> then run testdisk on it, or fsck
18:34 < rihannsu> how do i kill only php files?
18:35 < ksk> rihannsu: what?
18:35 < rihannsu> i have a server with load average of 12 on an 8 core
18:35 < Psi-Jack> rindolf: What are you really trying to do?
18:35 < Psi-Jack> rihannsu: ^
18:35 < Psi-Jack> 12 on an 8 core? Good! It's working. :0
18:35 < rihannsu> yes sir, my client is complaining of slow speed
18:36 < ksk> guys like you have clients q.q
18:36 < rihannsu> pphp is gobbling the most memeory trying to see if that helps
18:36 < ksk> service $webserver stop
18:36 < Psi-Jack> ...
18:36 < Psi-Jack> rihannsu: Hire a systems engineer? ;)
18:36 < ksk> will make load go away. without digging into the php code you will not be able to debug it
18:36 < rihannsu> im learning on my own no need
18:36 < ksk> or, without digging into the webserver/database/php stack
18:36 < rihannsu> thats for encouragment psi
18:36 < Giant81> "my clients are complaining the server is slow, so I stopped the server, now it serves up 404's pretty fast"
18:37 < Psi-Jack> You have paying clients that are willing to pay for  you to learn off the hip?
18:37 < CrazyTux> I got this when I ran fsck. "fsck from util-linux 2.27.1
18:37 < CrazyTux> e2fsck 1.42.13 (17-May-2015)
18:37 < CrazyTux> e2fsck: Get a newer version of e2fsck!
18:37 < CrazyTux> "
18:37 < rihannsu> we call cant be as lucky as me in life
18:37 < rihannsu> i know
18:37 < Giant81> you sound like a better salesman than sys admin
18:37 < rihannsu> thanks fort the advise
18:37 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Downgrading distros doesn't work always
18:38 < rindolf> CrazyTux: do you have backups?
18:39 < CrazyTux> rindolf, no.
18:39 < Psi-Jack> Then it was not important.
18:39 < rindolf> CrazyTux: why not?
18:40 < CrazyTux> I should have.
18:40 < rihannsu> im going to quote you on that and put it on my desk giant81
18:40 < rihannsu> while i spend my generous pay
18:40 < OerHeks> Psi-Jack +1 for the greatest distro-hopper, indeed
18:41 < hexnewbie> rihannsu: PHP web services nowadays use the PHP FPM daemon, which takes care of starting the proper number of PHP workers, handling as much requests as possible without starting too much (if configured properly). So, you may tune those settings if you're using it?
18:42 < hexnewbie> I am still baffled how web page serving can be resource-intensive today, but it is.
18:42 < CrazyTux> any solutions?
18:42 < ayecee> none!
18:43 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Go back to the distro you're using originally when you mkfs'd this filesystem
18:43 < hexnewbie> s/you're/you were/
18:43 < CrazyTux> hexnewbie, I am on Ubuntu Mate now. That is where this happened.
18:43 < rihannsu> hexnewbie: i'll have a look to see which daemon its running
18:44 < jiffe> I'm curious, why wouldn't w show all users logged in?  I have 2 shell sessions open and I see 1 but not the other
18:44 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Upgrading e2fsck/e2fsprogs is another thing you could do, possibly - but you already know that, since the message told you that
18:45 < CrazyTux> hexnewbie, how can I do that?
18:45 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Well, something enabled features that your e2fsck doesn't support - it could be mkfs, tune2fs, it could be kernel. Did you tune the filesystem or play with its mount options?
18:46 < CrazyTux> hexnewbie, no.
18:46 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Dunno how. Possibly do a local installation in /opt or and run e2fsck from there so you can fix the filesystem?
18:47 < CrazyTux> this is all Greek to me.
18:47 < gr8> what calendar solution for linux would you recommend? The only one I found usuable yet is Lightning for Thunderbird
18:47 < rindolf> CrazyTux: also see https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2009/12/14/lets-stop-talking-about-backups/
18:48 < mutante> gr8: cal
18:48 < CrazyTux> rindolf, ok
18:48 < gr8> GUI please ^^
18:48 < jelly> CrazyTux, short answer is you need to boot a more recent Linux distro, this one is too old to deal with the filesystem that's already on disk
18:48 < mutante> hmm. but a calendar is just text
18:48 < gr8> for managing dates, appointments etc.
18:48 < rindolf> gr8: there is korganizer
18:49 < djph> Tahlwyn: I'm not *that* much of a masochist though
18:49 < CrazyTux> jelly, what do you mean by a more recent Linux distro?
18:50 < dgurney> exactly that
18:50 < jelly> CrazyTux, something that has a version of e2fsprogs (e2fsck) newer than 1.42.13 from 2015.
18:50 < CrazyTux> ok. Manjaro?
18:50 < hexnewbie> I mean, the e2fsck message is pretty straightforward, despite of the blunt and unfriendly tone
18:51 < dgurney> if you like manjaro, sure
18:51 < jelly> CrazyTux, if the current release of this Manjaro thing has newer e2fsprogs, sure
18:51 < jelly> ask the Manjaro people if unsure
18:51 < CrazyTux> ok
18:51 < hexnewbie> I mean, why would it tell me to get newer e2fsck? Maybe I want to have older e2fsck and keep my filesystem corrupt. ;p
18:52 < treefrob> is it a good idea to put all docker data on a separate file system?
18:52 < jelly> CrazyTux, it might just be a newer Ubuntu Mate
18:52 < jelly> 18.04 beta or whatnot
18:53 < CrazyTux> jelly, I have Manjaro also installed on this laptop. What do I need to do now?
18:53 < hendrix> gr8: Korganizer, although it has kde dependencies
18:53 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Perhaps we just found the source of the problem.
18:53 < jelly> CrazyTux, boot it and see which version of e2fsck there is
18:53 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Does the filesystem mount in Manjaro?
18:54 < CrazyTux> hexnewbie, no. It doesn't mount on Manjaro also.
18:54 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: And you haven't yet tried to e2fsck it from there?
18:54 < gr8> thanks I'll take a look at Korganizer
18:54 < jelly> CrazyTux, before that, copy down the device path you may need to check ("/dev/sda8")
18:57 < CrazyTux> hexnewbie, let me log into Manjaro now.
18:59 < bizolos> Hi there. Let's say I have a directory like `~/dotfiles/some/foo`. I create a symlink like `ln -s ~/dotfiles/some/foo ~/.fooDir`. If I want to create a directory in `~/dotfiles/some/foo`, then I should be able to do `mkdir ~/.foodir/someNewdir`, right?
19:01 < cowsay> Does anyone happen to know any information about the Intel Kaby Lake G chips on Linux?  The new ones with intel CPU + vega GPU .. I can't find any info about it really
19:02 < jelly> bizolos, right
19:02 < dgurney> are those even available on anything yet?
19:02 < dgurney> if not, it's a bit hard to provide information
19:03 < jelly> bizolos, note that ~ is expanded by your shell and the symlink ought actually point to something like /home/bizolos/dotfiles/some/foo
19:03 < cowsay> dgurney, yeah .. it's out on the HP Spectre x360 and the XPS 15 .. and I think maybe one more laptop.
19:03 < bizolos> Thanks jelly
19:04 < cowsay> I just ordered the x360 with the 8705G .. kind of a $1800 shot in the dark.  Hope linux works on it, if not I'll have to wait until it does..
19:04 < dgurney> well it should
19:05 < cowsay> my hope is that the radeon drivers just pick it up like any other amd gpu
19:05 < dgurney> just make sure you run the latest kernel to minimize issues
19:05 < cowsay> yep
19:07 < bizolos> jelly, Then I'm not sure I get it :\ : https://gist.github.com/Einenlum/28a90f8ac1fafdbf47a4aae500eb7011
19:11 < jelly> bizolos, your symlink points to /vim/vimconfig and not /home/einelum/vim/vimconfig if that's what you wanted
19:12 < bizolos> jelly, holy shit
19:13 < CrazyTux> hello, thanks guys. The problem got solved. I ran fschk command and rectified the error.
19:13 < bizolos> Thanks jelly :)
19:14 < jelly> bizolos, you could use a relative path as symlink destination but let that be a lesson for some other time
19:15 < bizolos> jelly, I know how to use relative path :)
19:16 < jelly> bizolos, well, a relative path does not start with /
19:18 < bizolos> Actually it seems it does not change my prob. https://gist.github.com/Einenlum/14a603bd79b9b38bacfe0b58db0ee70c
19:19 < bizolos> ( jelly, I still use absolute paths here. I can use later relative paths, but not sure how it is supposed to fix the behavior here )
19:20 < jelly> bizolos, what does "ls -ld /home/einenlum/dotfiles/vim/vimconfig" say
19:21 < jelly> ie. does the destination exist?
19:21 < jelly> and if it exists, is it a directory?
19:22 < bizolos> jelly, ok, facepalm for me. it
19:22 < bizolos> was vimconf and not vimconfig.
19:22 < bizolos> That's all. Sorry and thanks for your time
19:26 < CrazyTux> has anyone here been using/used Ubuntu LTS as well as Mint?
19:26 < ayecee> stop with the survey questions
19:26 < egonsen> how do video players update the progress bar showing the elapsed time? they cannot count the passed seconds as the operating system might stop and start the different threads of the player at any time so that counting the time would be inaccurate, or not?
19:26 < CrazyTux> ayecee, what could be the reason for this problem of random freezing of the OS?
19:27 < ayecee> what problem
19:27 < jelly> egonsen, they can count the frames and know the fps
19:27 < CrazyTux> that got me into a lot of problems.
19:27 < dgurney> we can't know with no information provided
19:27 < jelly> and they have to know the exact frame being played next anyway
19:27 < CrazyTux> Ubuntu LTS that I have been using has this issue.
19:27 < ayecee> which issue
19:28 < CrazyTux> random freezing of the OS forcing me to press the reset button.
19:28 < CrazyTux> does Mint also have the same problem?
19:28 < dgurney> we can't know
19:28 < ayecee> try it and see
19:28 < CodeBug> how do i remove unnecessary packages in CentOS
19:28 < CodeBug> it says use YUM Remove but it doesn't give the args after that
19:28 < CrazyTux> I am using Manjaro also. Never encountered this issue so far.
19:28 < ayecee> neither have i
19:29 < dgurney> find out what the unnecessary package is, and then yum remove [packagename]
19:33 < jelly> CrazyTux, that symptom can be caused by many, er, causes.
19:33 < rihannsu> hexnewbie: i figured out what was causing the load issue, had someone access a site 16000 times in the last hour, blocked the ip all good. Thanks for atleast being kind about my request.
19:33 < jelly> overheating, driver issues, high load
19:33 < CrazyTux> jelly, it is strange. Two distros behave differently on the same hardware.
19:34 < jelly> welcome to linux
19:34 < velix> I've got a 17 GB huge text file and I'm running sed on it to add something to the 3rd line. sed now needs to rewrite the whole huge file. There's no work-around, is there?
19:35 < Brainspackle> if you have a 17gb text file, you're doing it wrong
19:35 < velix> Brainspackle: Nah, dump in CSV.
19:35 < nobrain> CodeBug: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/40179/remove-unused-packages
19:35 < jelly> velix, unless you're overwriting some bytes with other bytes and keeping the exact same file size, no
19:35 < velix> jelly: Okay. Maybe I should split the file into parts by line.
19:35 < CodeBug> thanks no
19:35 < jelly> velix, do you care about line order?
19:35 < CodeBug> nobrain, thanks
19:35 < velix> jelly: no.
19:36 < jelly> then you have options.
19:36 < velix> jelly --help
19:36 < velix> chmod +x jelly
19:36 < CrazyTux> jelly, btw which distro are you using?
19:36 < jelly> velix, which tool is going to be parsing the file next?
19:37 < velix> jelly: PostgreSQL's COPY from STDIN
19:37 < velix> Brainspackle: That's why I'm not wrong having a 17gb big text file ;)
19:37 < m1cl> hey guys, I have an issue with the NetworkManager. I tries to Connection to the network but disconnect immidiatly. After 5 min or so, the connection is established.
19:38 < m1cl> arp_read: wlp4s0: Network is down
19:38 < jelly> velix, then you can use head and tail to output first three lines, and the rest, to stdout separately
19:38 < velix> jelly: Yeah, that's what I thought about "splitting". Good idea.
19:39 < jelly> velix, eg. (head -n3 yuuge.csv | sed 's/foo/bar/'; tail -n +4 yuuge.csv) | psql -pain-is-all-i-know -
19:39  * jelly has no clue about postgres cli syntax
19:39 < velix> jelly: perfect. Little more complex, but I'm fine with this.
19:40 < jelly> or pipe the whole file thru sed
19:40 < velix> jelly: isn't that slower than tail ?
19:40 < jelly> and directly to your load command, instead of making a temp file
19:40 < velix> jelly: sed doesn't have a "one shot only", like grep does?
19:41 < jelly> sed has a pretty complete language
19:41 < jelly> IS a pretty complete language
19:41 < velix> jelly: Okay, but I'm fine with the basic command.
19:41 < velix> jelly: It's a one time run, so your solution is already fine.
19:41 < velix> Thanks a lot.
19:41 < jelly> you can tell it to change a specific line and just print all the lines after
19:41 < velix> jelly: way too complex ;)
19:42 < AndroidKitKat> for some reason i cant start i3 inplace
19:43 < AndroidKitKat> And now it’s broken entirely
19:43 < jelly> velix, maybe, but it's not a lot more and might be useful elsewhere.  printf "first\nsecond\nthird\nfourth\n" | sed '3s/$/ and half/'
19:44 < velix> ah, ok.
19:45 < jelly> if you go with head and tail verify all the lines are there.  I might be lying about the syntax.
19:45 < Hdphn> anyone has switched from arch to ubuntu here?
19:45 < AndroidKitKat> That doesn’t sound too complicated in terms of a switch
19:46 < Hdphn> I am asking is it worth it?
19:46 < jelly> CrazyTux, right now or usually?  Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, but I prefer Debian.
19:46 < Hdphn> because I am at the point where I want work to be done rather than tinker with my OS. which OS distro should I look for (that wont get in my way)
19:46 < AndroidKitKat> Ubuntu or Debian I guess
19:46 < AndroidKitKat> I use solus
19:47 < jelly> Hdphn, if you've already tinkered enough with arch and can make it work, why not keep using it
19:47 < Hdphn> solus is one man made right?
19:47 < AndroidKitKat> Which works pretty well if you don’t want to use i3
19:47 < pankaj> Is their any command in linux which recognise the folder in which I am and gives the information about the filesystem; of which I am currently in rather then full information about every filesystem on system.
19:47 < AndroidKitKat> There’s a small team
19:47 < Hdphn> jelly: I am fed up with it
19:47 < Hdphn> jelly: not ready to tinker everytime I do pacman -Syu
19:47 < jelly> oh, does it break too often?
19:47 < Hdphn> or kernel upgrades
19:47 < Alekisx2> hello, could someone help me understand a concept/theory
19:47 < Hdphn> is ubuntu mate a good choice for me?
19:47 < Alekisx2> it's a question I have on an assignment
19:47 < Hdphn> if I want stability and get work done mindset
19:47 < JimBuntu> pankaj, `echo $PWD`
19:48 < Hdphn> triceratux: hi. your advise please?
19:48 < CrazyTux> I have been using Ubuntu LTS. Quite good except random freezes sometimes.
19:48 < Hdphn> is debian testing more stable than ubuntu LTS?
19:48 < JimBuntu> pankaj, that's for recognizing what folder you are in, unsure what filesystem info you want to get
19:48 < pankaj> JimBuntu: I said that the command gives information about filesystem based on the folder in which I am currently in.
19:48 < jelly> Hdphn, debian testing is... weird.  Do not recommend for getting work done.
19:48 < jamtoast> pankaj: how about " df -hTP | grep `pwd -P` "
19:49 < Hdphn> jelly: your recommendations then?
19:49 < jelly> Hdphn, Debian release.
19:49 < mutante> Hdphn: if you want stable, how about using "stable"
19:49 < Hdphn> I am a developer
19:49 < CrazyTux> and today I almost lost all the data on a partition on my laptop, because of this freezing issue.
19:49 < Hdphn> cant live in decade old packages
19:49 < Hdphn> :(
19:49 < jelly> but you're probably not a Debian developer
19:49 < mutante> Hdphn: so if you don't want stable.. then use testing :p
19:50 < jelly> Hdphn, Debian 9 does not have decade old crap. It's merely 1-2 years old.
19:50 < CrazyTux> btw, how is OpenSuse Leap?
19:50 < CrazyTux> is it more stable than Ubuntu LTS?
19:50 < pankaj> jamtoast: Sometimes I get bogged down with filesystem details. May be not good start with filesystem on linux.
19:50 < jelly> Hdphn, and make a disconnect between your dev environment and the rest of the OS, if you want a stable OS
19:50 < mutante> "i want it to be rock solid but also cutting edge" is mutually exclusive
19:50 < BCMM> debian stable has old software. that's why it's stable. if you don't want the software to be old, don't use stable.
19:51 < jelly> BCMM, disagreed
19:51 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: Still asking the same questions?
19:51 < BCMM> i don't know why people complain about the old software in stable, because stable exists specifically for people who want old software
19:51 < mutante> exactly
19:51 < lotuspsychje> Psi-Jack: known troll over several channels
19:51 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, I need to replace Ubuntu LTS with someother more stable distro.
19:52 < Psi-Jack> Actually what's in Debian 9 is not that old. PHP 7.0 for example.
19:52 < Psi-Jack> lotuspsychje: not a troll. Just doesn't listen well.
19:52 < jelly> lotuspsychje: that's a newbie, not a troll.  Trolling implies intent.
19:52 < emberquill> If you want something even more stable than Ubuntu LTS, Debian stable is probably your best bet.
19:52 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: So do it. But stop asking the same questions over and over and over again.
19:53 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, I will listen. What is your advice?
19:53 < mutante> it's always "it needs to be the latest version but also lots of people should have used it before"
19:53 < Brainspackle> CrazyTux: if you can't keep ubuntu lts running stable then its a lost cause
19:53 < emberquill> ^
19:53 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: My advice is try it.
19:53 < CrazyTux> ok
19:54 < jelly> Hdphn, so pick a reasonably conservative distro, one that has LTS releases, but keep your dev environment and its components separate if possible.
19:54 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: better though would be to try and understand more clearly what exact problems you're actually running into.
19:54 < Brainspackle> i doubt he has "dev environments"
19:54 < jelly> they're a developer
19:54 < CrazyTux> Brainspackle, expect that freezing issue, everything is ok.
19:54 < Brainspackle> maybe its a hardware problem
19:54 < mutante> random freezing sounds a lot more like hardware than anything about the distro choice
19:55 < jelly> Brainspackle, their editor, language and library tools of choice and their dev environment
19:55 < Psi-Jack> Exactly.
19:55 < jelly> are* their dev env.
19:55 < Psi-Jack> Random freezing is almost always hardware related.
19:56 < jelly> except when it's driver related *cough*nouveau*cough*
19:56 < Psi-Jack> Hehe true.
19:56 < djph> jelly: then it's still hardware related.
19:56 < Psi-Jack> Also true.
19:57 < Brainspackle> drivers are software
19:57 < CrazyTux> stangely Manjaro which is installed on the same laptop doesn't have this issue.
19:57 < Brainspackle> if a driver is causing a crash, that is a software issue
19:57 < CrazyTux> So, it is not a hardware problem probably.
19:58 < Brainspackle> did you try thoughts and prayers?
19:58 < djph> Brainspackle: and yet, it's software specifically designed to interface with the hardware :) (not saying it's "not" software related)
19:58 < mutante> also a common problem is people get an LTS distro but then proceed to install software  with   curl | bash  install.sh scripts from random 3rd party sources,bypassing the package manger .. which defeats the entire point of being "stable"
19:59 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: I always recommend these distros in order : Fedora, openSUSE, CentOS, Debian.
19:59 < CrazyTux> I never installed any package outside the package manager.
19:59 < djph> mutante: who would ever do *that*?!
19:59 < jelly> djph, in that csae, every driver bug is hardware related
19:59 < Psi-Jack> Note that Ubuntu was not in that list.
19:59 < jelly> even if hw works perfectly
19:59 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, ok, then. I will go for OpenSuse Leap.
20:00 < jelly> that's not exactly helpful
20:00 < Hdphn> Brainspackle: what distro are you rockin?
20:00 < djph> jelly: yup, it's all related to imperfect silicon doing exactly what the imperfect meatsacks told it to do.
20:01 < s10gopal> i have selected do nothing when lid is closed , but when i connect monitor and close lid , monitor's screen also gets off
20:01 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: Good luck.
20:01 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, thanks for your suggestion.
20:02 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: I do not recommend the use of btrfs when installing.
20:02 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, I will use ext4.
20:03 < paddy|> what about fedora? nobody speaks for fedora? its a fine choice too
20:03 < mutante> no, no need to do free beta testing for RHEL :p
20:04 < paddy|> bla
20:04 < paddy|> the debian sponsors are not taking any influence? really?
20:05 < mutante> unlike all the others it is not backed by a corporation
20:05 < paddy|> you seem to be a true romantic
20:05 < Psi-Jack> paddy|: I recommended Fedora. :p
20:06 < paddy|> without the money of many corporations nothing would run here and there
20:06 < mutante> not following that mindset of "you have lost anyways so it doesnt matter"
20:06 < Psi-Jack> In fact, Fedora is my #1 recommended distro.
20:06 < pankaj> What do linux geeks do in their free time?
20:06 < paddy|> because they can
20:06 < Psi-Jack> pankaj: Hmmm.. Perhaps you should find some and ask them.
20:07 < pankaj> Psi-Jack: I thought I can find them here........
20:07 < paddy|> *snodder*
20:07 < Psi-Jack> pankaj: You might. Might be better at a LUG group meeting in your area, though.
20:08 < mutante> that's what they do in their free time.. they attend LUG meetings
20:08 < paddy|> with sponsors
20:08 < Psi-Jack> pankaj: Now, as for here... The subject matter is GNU/Linux, not social activities. :) So do you have a Linux question?
20:08 < pankaj> Psi-Jack: Just 1 minute
20:09 < Psi-Jack> Oops. Times up. :)
20:09 < paddy|> somebody brainwashed the babies to believe that money is evil
20:09 < mutante> yea right, without the generous corporate sponsors those Linux geeks couldn't afford their meeting
20:09 < paddy|> yes
20:12 < paddy|> quite a few debian developers are paid by their boss. and their boss is okay when they work during work hours on debian projects
20:13 < paddy|> now tell me how that money is better than red hat money
20:13 < s10gopal> which destro has laptop optimization ?
20:13 < Psi-Jack> s10gopal: *
20:13 < s10gopal> Psi-Jack, all ?
20:13 < Psi-Jack> Yes
20:14 < pankaj> Psi-Jack: I was not asking about social activities. But rather about tools in linux they might twik with.
20:14 < Psi-Jack> pankaj: No you weren't.
20:16 < Alexander-47u> hi all
20:17 < Alexander-47u> lets say I have a smbclient version 4.7.4
20:17 < Alexander-47u> and I want to install version 4.6.5 next to it
20:17 < Alexander-47u> how to go about this?
20:17 < Alexander-47u> or a portable version would be even more great
20:21 < benklop> @Alexander-47u personally, I'd probably build from source and install to a different location, but there are a lot of options.
20:21 < Psi-Jack> Alexander-47u: Better. Why?
20:21 < Psi-Jack> benklop: IRC is not Twitter, Discord, Slack, etc. @nick is not generally the "correct" way to address people and get their attention.
20:22 < benklop> Psi-Jack: sorry about that, you're of course correct
20:22 < Alexander-47u> benklop, i was thinking the same thing, but doesnt that cause troubles :p?
20:22 < Alexander-47u> Psi-Jack, because the new version sdoesnt print the smb version
20:22 < Alexander-47u> when connecting
20:22 < Alexander-47u> im doing OSCP course
20:22 < Psi-Jack> Alexander-47u: You could always make your own packages with your distro's appropriate packaging tools, but ...
20:22 < Psi-Jack> A what?
20:23 < Hdphn> Alexander-47u: then u should be using kali as main OS
20:23 < Hdphn> isnt it
20:23 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: "you", not "u" for future self corrections.
20:23 < ayecee> shud*
20:23 < Alexander-47u> yes, but the latest upgrade breaks some stuff
20:23 < Hdphn> try ParrotOS
20:23 < Hdphn> as main OS
20:23 < Hdphn> its alternative to kali
20:23 < benklop> Alexander-47u: yeah, that's probably the right idea. perhaps running multiple VMs with different versions, so r at least chroots
20:23 < Alexander-47u> I will, later maybe after my course
20:24 < Hdphn> Alexander-47u: is course difficult
20:24 < Psi-Jack> ParrotOS nor Kali are intended, nor designed, to be used as a desktop platform.
20:24 < Alexander-47u> Hdphn, depends on if you have prior experience, which I didnt, but I'd say it's easy but very time consuming.
20:26 < Psi-Jack> Alexander-47u: Hmmm. Interesting.
20:26 < Psi-Jack> Re: The smb version
20:27 < benklop> Alexander-47u: if I needed a comletely different set of compile-time dependencies for a few different versions of a tool, i'd probably create /opt/version-1/usr and compile all the libs for that version in there, and the same for version-2, version-3, etc. as long as you specify the right library paths when building, I don't see how there should be any conflicts from this. That said, using chroots, containers, or VMs would probably be
20:27 < benklop>  simpler if you're not used to compiling your own software
20:27 < hexnewbie> May as well try to run SystemRescueCd as desktop
20:28 < Alexander-47u> benklop, that is indeed correct, i have thought of that, but im already in a VM lol. so i'll have to get used to it
20:29 < benklop> Alexander-47u: have fun!
20:30 < Alexander-47u> thanks :)
20:30 < McColeX> hello
20:34 < jonascj> 'grep' vs. '/bin/grep' in shell scripts? Is it only an issue with shell builtin's like "echo lol" vs. "/bin/echo lol" ?
20:34 < hexnewbie> jonascj: Issue?
20:34 < jonascj> hexnewbie: only something you need to consider when there are similar shell built-ins.
20:35 < hexnewbie> jonascj: By issue, do you mean the fact that ‘echo’ not really portable and you should use printf for anything but echoing literals?
20:36 < jonascj> hexnewbie: excuse my poor formulation, I meant if it was custom to use "grep" or "/bin/grep" in scripts. And then I remembered that sometimes there is a difference, like with 'date', 'echo' (and probably others).
20:36 < hexnewbie> jonascj: I've never seen anyone use /bin/grep or /bin/echo in scripts.
20:37 < jonascj> hexnewbie: alright, /bin/grep got another nail in the coffin.
20:38 < linuxfreck> you used to see a lot of logic finding the proper grep you expected in shell scripts that try to support other unix os on top of linux
20:39 < jonascj> hexnewbie: I can't remember right now, but from time to time I see stackoverflow-type questions/posts where some obscure switch does not exist for the shell-builtin, but does for the system gnu-binary.
20:39 < jonascj> * I can remember which questions
20:39 < JimBuntu> I use grep in some scripts, mainly log helpers.
20:39 < hexnewbie> /bin/grep would be more portable to situations (systems or environments, e.g. init scripts) where /bin is not in $PATH, grep would be more portable to situations where grep is not in /bin
20:40 < hexnewbie> Neither of these should ever happen (except in some very custom system-specific script), but if it does, I think I'd rather respect the system's $PATH in where grep is.
20:40 < s10gopal> hexnewbie,  sorry for stepping in . Can you please explain what is portable ? and how to check it is portable or now ?
20:41 < JimBuntu> Ah, I see what you meant now. I don't call out the path for grep, no.
20:42 < hexnewbie> s10gopal: Portable is a thing that is in one place and can then be put in another place. Like a laptop that can be used in the bathroom, or a script written on Linux that can be used on FreeBSD
20:42 < hexnewbie> Or your buddy's computer.
20:42 < JimBuntu> or an application that can be moved around and that doesn't require certain config files to be written in user-specific places
20:52 < s10gopal> hexnewbie, how to check if a command is portable or not ?
20:53 < ingiraxo> hello, is here any network expert? :) i have problem with forward on my server
20:54 < hexnewbie> s10gopal: There's no a way to ‘check’
20:54 < hexnewbie> s10gopal: Certain APIs do have a portability notes in the man page (search for portab, or conform), but that's for C-level APIs mainly.
20:55 < jonascj> s10gopal: only knowledge of how many places is somecommand available, do you use bash specific features and is your friend using bash as shell etc.
20:55 < hexnewbie> s10gopal: POSIX is also a search keyword
20:56 < s10gopal> hexnewbie, jonascj  JimBuntu  thank you very much for explaining it , now i am going to study more about it
20:56 < Hdphn> Psi-Jack: why not ?
20:57 < Hdphn> triceratux: I can use parrotOS as main OS right?
20:57 < jonascj> s10gopal: it can kill your project to think too much about it, but some knowledge is useful.
20:58 < Hdphn> Psi-Jack: why its not usable as mainOS? isnt it basically debian + tools
20:58 < jonascj> At some point Ubuntu made the decision to make the dash shell '/bin/sh' which broke many system scripts using bash features.
20:58 < jonascj> I don't know if they stock.
20:58 < jonascj> with dash
20:59 < jonascj> *stuck
21:01 < s10gopal> what other 20 year old computer students are doing ?
21:01 < compdoc> wishing they had girlfriends
21:01 < ozymandias> gaming.
21:02 < jonascj> s10gopal: computer science students?
21:02 < s10gopal> jonascj, yes
21:03 < jonascj> s10gopal: from time to time living in the computer labs doing projects (kernel modules, implementing matrix-matrix multiplication, making fuse-filesystems)
21:03 < jonascj> s10gopal: but otherwise pretty normal stuff, at least myself and those I studied with included.
21:05 < jonascj> but compdoc and ozymandias are probably right as well, I suspect CS/math students will play more board games / computer games than other groups of students. Maybe they will also have fewer girlfriends than, say, students of medicin :P
21:06 < ozymandias> :-D
21:06 < s10gopal> you also have to fill sheet to crack exam ? how much CGPA they get out of 10 ? in india students are getting 9out of 10 cgpa but they dont  know  how to write copy constructor
21:06 < alanhuang> boyfriends though... (kidding)
21:06 < jonascj> s10gopal: computer science is not really about proramming, so no big surprise there for me.
21:07 < ozymandias> jonascj, your program was very different than mine
21:07 < s10gopal> in india it is just about programming
21:07 < ozymandias> programming skill was a required part to do pretty much most of the homework
21:08 < jonascj> ozymandias: we did have programming of course, but programming is really just a tool to implement algorithms and test things. Mostly computer science is about understanding algorithms, proving algorithms, learning about data structures etc.
21:08 < ozymandias> it was assumed that you could program in the upper levels -- they didnt even teach the languanges, just tossed you the manuals and said 'now implement these projects'
21:08 < ozymandias> jonascj, that's true, but you have to be able to pick up programming on the fly to do anything in CS
21:08 < jonascj> ozymandias: exactly, and in most cases it wouldn't matter if you copy constructed something or wrote it in assembly
21:09 < s10gopal> i was talking about copy constructor in c++ , very basic exampile
21:09 < ozymandias> ok, I think we are getting to the same point, just with different terms
21:10 < ozymandias> upper level CS doesnt teach programming, as it is expected to be a skill you have
21:10 < jonascj> In Denmark CS is a 5 year education, but if you want a good programmer outsource it to India or hire someone who studied programming for 3 years, they are much better programmers, but maybe not as good as coming up with a completely new algorithm for something.
21:10 < twainwek> doesn't matter. there's nothing special about c++, and someone not knowing it doesn't mean anything.
21:11 < jonascj> twainwek: exactly
21:11 < s10gopal> indian are good in copy paste work and documentation only , india is only producing graduated labours
21:11 < ozymandias> i find that a tad racist
21:11 < ozymandias> oddly enough
21:12 < Dagmar> yeah but it's unfortunately pretty true
21:12 < Dagmar> They've got a lot of diploma mills over there
21:12 < ozymandias> i know many Indians that are good at CS -- and at least 1 of them did undergrad in India
21:12 < s10gopal> i am from india , we have to fill 39 out of 39 pages to get pass
21:12 < JJBby> How do you search for something in a man or help file in CLI. Im trying 'n', '^N', /pattern, !pattern. I cant even figure out how to use the comands from the help help
21:12 < ozymandias> JJBby,  /searchstring
21:13 < jonascj> speaking of CS and being good at X, I know many very proficient computer scientists who use Windows as their daily driver :P
21:13 < Dagmar> It's kind of an ongoing problem of "schools" that are basically just taking a ridiculous sum of money to get someone taught just enough to pass a certification exam, and no more
21:13 < ozymandias> jonascj, that's true -- but I would not trust a CS program that does that
21:14 < ozymandias> you cannot truly teach CS on windows
21:14 < Dagmar> JJBby: Assuming you didn't change the defauly pager, slash works fine
21:14 < jonascj> ozymandias: they were all dragged through Linux to some degree because it is the most popular open-source OS, which is great for studing OS'es :P
21:14 < Dagmar> JJBby: It's just /string and hit enter
21:14 < s10gopal> we can get btech certificate in $5500-6000 us dollars.
21:14 < vlt> JJBby: Make sure "man" uses "less" as pager and not just "more".
21:14 < Dagmar> Then you can use n and N to skip around
21:14 < ozymandias> jonascj, exactly -- you need to rely on an open source OS to learn CS to any substantive depth
21:14 < jonascj> ozymandias: I just meant it is their OS of choice in private life and at work, now that they are back to only thinking of algorithms and writing papers, maybe they have Putty to do shell stuff on a remote system.
21:15 < twainwek> that's universities these days. they teach you how to be a code monkey and not how to think... unless you study perhaps math
21:15 < ozymandias> jonascj, right -- as a desktop, windows is fine -- as a tool for a CS program, it is TERRIBLE
21:15 < twainwek> as in pure math
21:16 < s10gopal> can you please share your syllabus and how your professor test you ?
21:16 < ozymandias> many of the tests were hands on projects
21:17 < ozymandias> implement a greedy TCP algorythim, etc
21:17 < Dagmar> s10gopal: The big difference being that schools that are teaching people to program don't have them just learning how to copy-paste
21:17 < Dagmar> There is little point in teaching someone how to _type_ a bubble sort from memory.  They need to actually understand how it works.
21:17 < ozymandias> hell, for 5+ years, my name was in the official RH source code, due to one of my undergrad projects
21:17 < jonascj> Long forgotten, OS class would be http://bcs.wiley.com/he-bcs/Books?action=index&itemId=1118063333&bcsId=7886 and an written exam where you do simple address translation, following pointers, and stuff
21:18 < Dagmar> ...so they don't wind up sending me trouble tickets about a problem making a TCP socket that amounts to "user failed to provide a keyring"
21:18 < jonascj> and projects writing a fuse file syste and a simple echo-back kernel module.
21:19 < s10gopal> we have 80 marks paper and gets questions like explain loops in c for 16 marks
21:19 < ozymandias> in project management, our final project was to work with a local business on a programming need they had, and provide them a fully realized solution complete with docs
21:19 < jonascj> Programming languages class was learning haskell and prolog, also written exam doing list comprehension by hand, writing small programs by hand to sort a list etc.
21:19 < Dagmar> s10gopal: Someone can easily memorize a paragraph to "explain"
21:19 < ozymandias> why would you 'explain' on paper? show you know it by DOING it :-D
21:19 < Dagmar> It doesn't mean they can code their way out of a paper bag
21:20 < s10gopal> thats we have to do and we have to explain it on 9-11 pages to get marks
21:20 < Dagmar> ...or even write a single line of code properly.
21:20 < twainwek> my rule of thumb is: if the course doesn't involve theorems and proofs, it's not worth much
21:21 < ozymandias> indeed, the only hand writting out you should be doing is a proof
21:21 < ozymandias> code should be typed
21:21 < ozymandias> so it can,. you know, be tested
21:21 < hexnewbie> Unless you're trying to prove Riemann's hypothesis, it's probably a waste of time on math problems for R&R
21:22 < s10gopal> twainwek, and how you memorize all theorems and write them in exam correctly ?
21:22 < ozymandias> thats not how proofs work
21:22 < twainwek> ^
21:23 < ozymandias> thats like saying ' I aced math by memorizing all the numbers'
21:23 < hexnewbie> Exam should be: Here's the Linux kernel. Write an analytic proof on its correctness.
21:23 < JimBuntu> I write all my answers using base-4, less numbers to memorize
21:24 < ozymandias> JimBuntu, binary man, binary
21:24 < JimBuntu> ozymandias, that one would have been figured out way too fast... base-4 leaves them puzzled for a while
21:25 < s10gopal> how you learn things ? your professor teaches them to you ? or he just comes with paper and write that  on board ?
21:25 < ozymandias> so in high school, my senior class was selected to take a proposed standardized test -- so they could see how closely the new test lined up with the results of the existing tests....
21:26 < ozymandias> we literally had people pulling crap like answering math questions in base 4 or hex, because we could
21:26 < ozymandias> s10gopal, neither
21:27 < ozymandias> the prof discusses selections of the readings, and answers questions/gives examples, and then you do the reading and projects and come back and look at the next section
21:27 < ozymandias> the point of CS is to learn to think, not to parrot back what they tell you
21:27 < ozymandias> you need to apply the concepts not just blindly repeat them
21:28 < ozymandias> its not "what is a loop?" but "when is a loop the appropriate solution?"
21:28 < ozymandias> at least in the upper levels of my program
21:30 < Dagmar> At the lower levels it should be "write a loop"
21:30 < twainwek> brb, gonna remove "in-depth knowledge of c for-loops" from my resume
21:30 < ozymandias> in the intro courses, sadly, there was a lot of 'this is a computer' or 'this is how you type' -- at least until the filter classes got done
21:31 < Dagmar> I actually skipped those 101 classes
21:31 < ozymandias> Dagmar, yup, it should ALWAYS be show, not tell, in both directions
21:31 < Dagmar> The professors graded on curves, and I threatened to wreck those
21:31 < JimBuntu> ozymandias, The one thing that still bothers me and I know it shouldn't, is when people refer to their "CPU"... when they are talking about the tower/etc.
21:32 < ozymandias> JimBuntu, i know people that call it the harddrive
21:32 < Dagmar> ...and I do mean I literally called up the instructors and spent ten minutes talking to them and they told OIT I did not need to waste those semesters
21:32 < s10gopal> is CGPA matters ?
21:32 < Dagmar> I wasn't about to take a class where there was an exam question where you label a mid-tower case as a "CPU"
21:32 < twainwek> in case you haven't noticed, we don't have computers anymore, we only have The Cloud now
21:32 < ozymandias> never even heard of that before, s10gopal, so I am guessing 'no
21:32 < s10gopal> percentile , marks
21:33 < benklop> Dagmar: if I was stuck in an (obviously gigantic) paper bag, I have _no_ idea how I would code myself out of it, and I write code for a living. :D
21:33 < ozymandias> that doesnt matter in the real world
21:33 < Dagmar> benklop: You'd start by bit-banging the stepper motor controller
21:33 < ozymandias> after your first job, no one cares what your grade point was
21:34 < benklop> Dagmar: waaait.... this problem was not clearly defined. I had no idea there was a stepper motor, a controller, or anything except myself and the bag
21:34 < ozymandias> hell, if I SAW a GPA on a non-entry level resume, I might flag it to be tossed
21:34 < kfrench> benklop: Was it wet?
21:34 < benklop> kfrench: good question!
21:34 < jonascj> benklop: I remember seeing a post on reddit about what to do if you found yourself in a room with only x86(_64) computer with no OS, one floppy and you had to do some relatively simple task (if it had an OS)
21:35 < jonascj> benklop: it was a good read
21:35 < twainwek> also a 4.0 in my experience means people who take easy courses with easy professors to maintain their GPAs
21:35 < s10gopal> 4.0 out of 40 ?
21:35 < ozymandias> twainwek, indeed, it likely means not a risk taker, and not one that likes true challenges
21:36 < ozymandias> 4.0 out of 4.0
21:36 < s10gopal> 10^
21:36 < ozymandias> GPA is usually out of 4
21:36 < ozymandias> in US and UK (i think)
21:36 < s10gopal> and how many subject you study per semester ?
21:36 < ozymandias> 4.0 means they got all As (and no A-) in every course
21:37 < twainwek> go take an abstract math course with a russian professorwith an accent so thick that it sounds russian who hands out 5% A, and maintain your 4.0 GPA, then maybe i'll show some interest
21:37 < ozymandias> you mean classes? full time is 12 credits, usual load is 15-16, heavy load is 18 (needs advisor aproval) and 21 is the max possible
21:37 < ozymandias> usually 1-3 credits per class
21:38 < ozymandias> 1 credit =  1 hour/week in class, usually 3-4 hours of homework
21:38 < s10gopal> we study 10 different course in 6 months
21:38 < benklop> my GPA was never anything to write home about, I always spent way too much time discovering interesting problems to solve and not enough time focusing on the coursework..
21:38 < ozymandias> credits + homework time roughly is 40-50 hours week
21:39 < ozymandias> in 6 months, that seems about right -- that would be 1.5 semesters
21:40 < benklop> like figuring out how to get linux hyperthreading to work before it was in the main kernel tree, or trying to connect to the school's microsoft loving VPN under linux
21:40 < ozymandias> typically a semester is 4 months, or 16 weeks, or the equivilent class time+ homework time
21:40 < benklop> or heck even getting my wifi card to work back then was an excersise in frustration (ndiswrapper)
21:40 < s10gopal> 1 semester , in which we get 2 month holiday + 1 month for exam
21:40 < Psi-Jack> Linux?
21:40 < ozymandias> benklop, we had a 64 bit debian cluster before debian was 64 bit
21:41 < ozymandias> benklop, so I can relate :-D
21:42 < FRWB> is it fine to use the same private key on multiple machines? for rsa
21:42 < Dagmar> It's "fine" but don't do it
21:42 < ozymandias> FRWB, for ssh? yes
21:42 < Psi-Jack> FRWB: From your own computer?
21:42 < Psi-Jack> Absolutely fine.
21:42 < ozymandias> but he is right, dont do it
21:43 < Dagmar> There's no reason you can't stick multiple public keys on the various machines you shell into
21:43 < FRWB> k just makin sure thanks yall
21:43 < ozymandias> in some cases, it even makes sense
21:43 < Psi-Jack> This whole thing of, don't do it, both of ya, how dare you!
21:43 < ozymandias> such as a cluster
21:43 < benklop> ozymandias: if I feel like something is frustrating, all I need to do is think back to why I felt like I legitimately needed to use gentoo on my laptop to get anything done and everything seems better by comparison
21:44 < Dagmar> Yeah because in a cluster environment you really want to be sure that a compromise of one machine impacts all of them
21:44 < ozymandias> Dagmar, in many clusters, getting one compromised ALREADY comprpmised all of them ;-)
21:44 < Dagmar> I'll stick with proper key management
21:44 < Psi-Jack> lol
21:45 < Psi-Jack> Proper key management would be needing only one, properly secured and used only where it would be used.
21:45 < ozymandias> Dagmar, some of the clusters I have worked on did not have unique homes per node, for instance
21:45 < Psi-Jack> ozymandias: Why would that matter? :p
21:45 < ozymandias> so if you had write access to any node, you have compromised the cluster
21:45 < ozymandias> separate keys would not have helped -- or even be possible for the most part
21:46 < Psi-Jack> Yep.
21:46 < Alexander-47u> benklop, you made it sound like it was hard, but it was really trivial xD
21:46 < ozymandias> and some have job schedulers, or user equvilency set up
21:47 < Psi-Jack> Keep your personal SSH key secured and encrypted via a passphrase. Only use it from origin systems where you, the human, will be ssh'ing from.
21:47 < Psi-Jack> That is proper ssh management.
21:47 < benklop> Alexander-47u: sure it wasn't hard, but it was definitely one of the things that decreased my GPA overall
21:48 < Dagmar> ozymandias: COmmon homedirs is fine.  Common role account credentials with any kind of privs at all, perhaps not so much
21:48 < Psi-Jack> benklop: Linux?
21:48 < benklop> Psi-Jack: yes, the major thing that led to my eventual dropout from school and the beginning of my software development career :D
21:48 < benklop> Psi-Jack: I ended up dropping out to accept a job offer
21:49 < Psi-Jack> benklop: Linux?
21:49 < benklop> Psi-Jack: yes
21:49 < Psi-Jack> Where? Still waiting. :)
21:49 < Psi-Jack> Hint hint. Topic Adjustment. :)
21:50 < benklop> Psi-Jack: my bad..
21:50 < Psi-Jack> Heh heh
21:56 < Aljone> hey guys how do i see that in pages instead big list that scroll down and i cant go up mysqld --help --verbose
21:57 < twainwek> mysqld --help --verbose | less
21:57 < ayecee> mysqld --help --verbose 2>&1 | less
21:57 < Aljone> ty
21:59 < puff> And once again the "browser" process in Chrome is at 102% of CPU.  I have exactly one window open.
21:59 < Psi-Jack> Aljone: "thank you" not "ty" for future self corrections
22:01 < twainwek> puff: they released a patch to fix that. it's called firefox
22:03 < Alexander-47u> benklop, what is GPA overall :P?
22:03 < hexnewbie> puff: Chrome needs one window to load a horribly written web site
22:07 < xp_scaling> Folks, need some help remembering a command. At Android's boot screen, I used to add vga= somewhere to get all the supported resolutions somewhere at the line <dboot.hardware=android_x86_64 SRC=/android-6.0-r1 Someone know how to list all resolutions at boot?
22:07 < kfrench> vga=ask
22:07 < xp_scaling> kfrench: at the end?
22:07 < mawk> vga for android ,
22:07 < mawk> ?
22:07 < xp_scaling> mawk: yes
22:07 < kfrench> xp_scaling: I don't know where.  I've never booted android
22:08 < mawk> anywhere on the cmdline xp_scaling
22:08 < xp_scaling> ok I got it, thanks.
22:10 < Alexander-47u> benklop, how did it decrease your GPA ?:P
22:10 < Alexander-47u> just curious
22:11 < benklop> Alexander-47u: mostly because i spent my time learning and working on Linux, and not doing homework
22:12 < benklop> i can't even recall what my grades were, so they were clearly bad.
22:12 < DrunkRhino> For keeping a system file in sync across multiple computers on a home network (e.g. lightdm.conf), something like puppet would be overkill, right? I was thinking something more like an rsync + cron job
22:13 < ntd> zfs/btrfs tx/rx over ssh, unison, etc?
22:13 < ntd> just, eh... doing it that way is great for spreading a single malware infection
22:13 < benklop> DrunkRhino: I've used Unison for such a thing, but today I might use owncloud.
22:14 < benklop> DrunkRhino: if you know it's just going to be a single file or two, and you only want to keep them in sync, rather than having a single source of truth for what they _should_ contain, then puppet, chef, ansible, or others might be overkill.
22:15 < ntd> well, letting a "l"-amp stack handle anyones files
22:15 < benklop> if in the other hand you might expand to wanting to templatize more and more files, instead of just sync, then I'd use one of the above.
22:15 < xp_scaling> Also there is this weird bug I've faced when I was setting up Android within VMware workstation. I'm wondering if anyone is familiar with this. Whenever I installed Android from the ISO & booted it the first time, it properly shows all the resolutions when I use vga=ask But after that, whenever I boot using vga=ask, the resolutions displayed are always lesser than 1366x768 & I'm not able to choose a resolution higher than that.
22:17 < benklop> ntd: hmm. I suppose I'd agree. since this is about a _system_ file, I'd probably prefer to use a templating tool or something, instead of syncing.
22:19 < EugenA> I'm looking for a simple monitor tool to watch log files and send emails if something interesting found
22:19 < kfrench> syslog?
22:19 < benklop> xp_scaling: workstation sometimes might change the video card being presented in response to the OS loading the driver for the paravirtual card. no idea if that's part of Android - I wouldn't have expected so. but it's the first thing that comes to mind..
22:19 < EugenA> yes
22:20 < kfrench> EugenA: I was suggesting it as a solution
22:20 < laggger164> Guys, I don't know where to ask this, but since I am on Linux I think it's appropriate enough. I have a laser printer connected and working. I need to print a few pages of text handwritten with a blue pen, basically notes from school. The printer is only black and white and it prints it almost unreadable. Any suggestions?
22:20 < EugenA> i want to receive an email if someone logins on my system
22:20 < edmont> hi
22:21 < kfrench> EugenA: Sure.  You have syslog look for that pattern in your logs and run a script.  That script would send email.
22:22 < Alexander-47u> benklop, still dont really see the correlation with a decrease xD
22:22 < edmont> how can I mount an encrypted home folder from a previous Mint installation? I have the .ecryptfs/ and .Private/ folders and the passphrase
22:22 < Psi-Jack> edmont: Folder? Directory you mean?
22:23 < edmont> yes, sorry
22:23 < Psi-Jack> You would need to use ecryptfs to mount it, but as long as you have all the data, you should be able.
22:23 < Psi-Jack> ecryptfs is horrible though, so I'd advise against its use in the future.
22:24 < TJ-> EugenA: use pam_exec to run a script that sends the email
22:24 < xp_scaling> benklop: What do you suggest doing then?
22:24 < edmont> Psi-Jack: any good tutorial?
22:24 < twainwek> laggger164: convert to grayscale, adjust contrast, print
22:24 < Psi-Jack> edmont: The ecryptfs docs?
22:24 < laggger164> twainwek: Alright, what should I use to do that? GIMP?
22:25 < TJ-> edmont: "sudo ecryptfs-recover-private /path/to/original/home/.ecryptfs/<user>/.Private "
22:25 < twainwek> laggger164: that's definitely one option
22:25 < Psi-Jack> edmont: This might help as well: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ECryptfs
22:25 < laggger164> twainwek: Or would you recommend something else?
22:26 < twainwek> laggger164: i don't have any preferences since i don't really know the root cause of the issue. i suggest trying whatever and see if it even works, and if it does then look for ways to optimize the workflow if you have a lot of it
22:26 < edmont> TJ-: does it need to be the original home?
22:27 < laggger164> twainwek: I mean, that should be a good solution, I'll try it, thanks!
22:27 < Psi-Jack> edmont: This might help as well: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ECryptfs
22:27 < TJ-> edmont: no, any path to an .ecryptfs/<user>/.Private ... the tool will mount it under /tmp/
22:28 < TJ-> edmont: the .Private should have a .ecryptfs sibling, e.g. <user>/.Private and <user>/.ecrpytfs (where the wrapped passphrase is)
22:30 < edmont> TJ-: thanks, I'll try
22:33 < laggger164> twainwek: Welp I tried it and it seems to work fine, thanks for the suggestion!
22:33 < twainwek> nice
22:34 < puff> twainwek: Yeah, I use both.  The biggest thing I like about chrome is the task manager, being able to isolate and kill off badly-behaving web pages or extensions.
22:36 < DrunkRhino> benklop, I'll have a look at unison & owncloud, maybe in the future if I need to tweak the individual configs across machines more I'll have a look at things like ansible. For now though it's probably just going to be a handful of things like a shadow-like file for the pam_pwdfile module.
22:37 < rajkosto> whats that ddrescue-like program on linux that would do the same thing but clone only used sectors on ext4
22:37 < djph> rajkosto: er, just ddrescue the whole thing, call it a day
22:37 < rajkosto> no it slow
22:38 < djph> so?
22:38 < rajkosto> need fast
22:38 < rajkosto> there was one, i tried using it before but forgot the name
22:39 < rajkosto> it was ext4 aware and wouldnt copy unused blocks
22:40 < ayecee> clonezilla
22:40 < lukey> rajkosto: You can create a ddrescue domainfile with partclone
22:41 < rajkosto> yep that was it
22:41 < lukey> rajkosto: So ddrescue will only atemp to rescue the areas that are actually used
22:42 < ayecee> lukey: no, it will rescue all blocks
22:42 < lukey> ayecee: not with a domainfile created by partclone
22:42 < ayecee> oh, i see what you're saying.
22:50 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: Well, you are reading every word. :)
22:52 < nolsen> Is it normal for your RAID rebuild speed to be less than 4MB/s?
22:52 < nolsen> on 2 1TB HDDs.
22:52 < nolsen> in RAID 1.
22:52 < xp_scaling> ok, linux mint, at least in it's default settings seems to be terrible at scaling elements when resolution = 1920x1080 compared to Windows, what's the fix to this?
22:52 < Psi-Jack> nolsen: Depends on many factors.
22:53 < nolsen> Psi-Jack: Those are?
22:53 < hexnewbie> nolsen: Very common if the MD RAID is in active use. Minimal speed is 1 MiB/s, maximum speed is like 64 or 200 MiB/s, but the MD code chooses not to interfere with the use in any way, so it tends to go near the minimum in many situations
22:54 < nolsen> Well I just increase the minimum during the rebuild
22:54 < ayecee> "every"
22:54 < nolsen> but it's still being awfully slow.
22:54 < hexnewbie> nolsen: If you know what you're doing, and you know it's not going to affect your operations, you may lift the minium speed
22:54 < Psi-Jack> nolsen: Hardware controller, hardware drives, etc. Settings in /proc/sys/dev/raid/speed_limit_max (sysctl dev.raid.speed_limit_{min|max}) etc
22:55 < nolsen> It's a soft raid, USB 3.0.
22:55 < Psi-Jack> USB? Why on earth why?
22:55 < nolsen> I don't have the money for a raid card.
22:55 < Psi-Jack> ...
22:55 < nolsen> or an actual machine.
22:55 < Psi-Jack> What's the raid even for?
22:55 < nolsen> RAID 1.
22:55 < Psi-Jack> And don't you dare say backup.
22:56 < nolsen> For redundancy.
22:56 < lukey> nolsen: You can activate write-behind for one of the two HDDs
22:56 < nolsen> USB shouldn't be really bad now days.
22:56 < hexnewbie> Well, RAID *stands* for redundancy. What's the redundancy for?
22:56 < Psi-Jack> So, yes, 4MB/s is "normal" for USB. :)
22:56 < nolsen> Psi-Jack: USB 3.0?
22:56 < nolsen> It has a 5Gbps bus.
22:57 < nolsen> Should be plenty of bandwidth for the hard drives.
22:57 < nolsen> Since they only typicall write around 120MB/s
22:57 < nolsen> typically*
22:57 < lukey> Psi-Jack: Even USB 2.0 should be faster
22:57 < hexnewbie> nolsen: If it is really working at the USB 3.0 speeds with no issues from the controller, cable, enclosure, and Linux drivers, maybe.
22:57 < Psi-Jack> USB 2.0 is single duplex.
22:57 < Psi-Jack> USB 3.0 at least has full duplex.
22:57 < nolsen> Even when it's not running with RAID, I can get easy 100MB/s
22:57 < benklop> you mean half duplex?
22:58 < Psi-Jack> half duplex, yes. LOL
22:58 < mawk> one duplex, two duplexes
22:58 < spkd> duplii
22:58 < nolsen> Also, just to throw it in there, I ran a RAID system with a raspberry PI, the worst machines to even use RAID...
22:58 < nolsen> And I got better performance than this kek.
22:58 < Psi-Jack> LOL
22:59 < nolsen> I atleast get 20MB/s rebuild on a FREAKING PI
22:59 < Time-Warp> anyone know where to find libjasper-dev ffs
22:59 < spkd> raid on a pi?
22:59 < spkd> lol
23:00 < nolsen> Now that I upgraded to a decent-ish machine with actual USB 3.0, I should get even better results...
23:00 < xp_scaling> seriously folks, I can't find a solution to making the UI elements proper on a 1080p resolution screen. There is an option within preferences to Double the scaling but that's too big. No in between options. Is it really true that linux mint still can't scale well even on a 1080p screen?
23:00 < hexnewbie> nolsen: Hopefully you can. Prepare to be rebuilding 3-4 times a day :p
23:00 < lukey> nolsen: Or maybe try increasing the Chunk Size
23:00 < nolsen> Why the constant rebuilding?
23:01 < hexnewbie> nolsen: Every time your USB bus gets drops one of the disks. (Wouldn't be that bad with bitmaps)
23:01 < Psi-Jack> nolsen: What are you making redundant
23:02 < nolsen> Psi-Jack: *Alot* of files that I use, usually as SMB or NFS, depending on which OS I'm on.
23:02 < nolsen> usually shared as*
23:02 < twainwek> xp_scaling: screenshot?
23:02 < vfbsilva> anyone using a primus video card with the nvidia drivers? I seem unable to have output in hdmi
23:02 < nolsen> I even use it to backup files from my laptop.
23:02 < Psi-Jack> And why do you need it as RAID?
23:02 < nolsen> Because RAID is more fun.
23:02 < lukey> nolsen: Is the read/write buffer enabled on the disks/controller?
23:02 < nolsen> Plus hard drive failure protection.
23:02 < Psi-Jack> Bad answer.
23:02 < nolsen> lukey: Not sure.
23:03 < benklop> hexnewbie: i ran zfs with 4 disks over USB3. it worked fine, and I only upgraded to a built-in enclosure because the usb3 enclosure would reset every time I pulled a disk to replace it (happened twice, but the disks are ooooooooold and I replaced them due to SMART warnings and such, not due to true failure
23:03 < nolsen> Psi-Jack: Hard drive failure protection.
23:03 < lukey> nolsen: dmesg might tell
23:03 < xp_scaling> twainwek: I'll try, the thing is it's in a new laptop on which I haven't installed my screenshot program yet & I'm typing from another laptop. It'll take some time.
23:03 < benklop> of course when it reset, it disconnected ALL disks which kind of sucked.
23:03 < hexnewbie> Badly provisioned RAID can as well increase the chances of losing your data (admittedly, that mostly applies to RAID-5)
23:04 < twainwek> xp_scaling: i was just curious as to how it looks. what's your desktop environment? and what do you mean by "ui elements"
23:04 < nolsen> RAID 5 is too extreme for my use case.
23:04 < nolsen> I would go with RAID 10, but I would saturate the bus too easily.
23:05 < oiaohm> nolsen: really raid on a pi seams bad until you know some of the small single box raids use USB 2 bridges like pi and have a smaller processor than pi 1 this explains why their performance is absolute garbage.
23:05 < hexnewbie> benklop: I tried using ZFS over USB, fubared in a week (pool was unmountable, and couldn't be fixed). No redundancy, though
23:05 < nolsen> oiaohm: I'm not using a pi right now.
23:06 < nolsen> Can USB not handle 24/7 usage?
23:06 < hexnewbie> nolsen: Those small files are backed up somewhere, not on the second RAID-1 mirror, right?
23:07 < Psi-Jack> LOl
23:07 < Psi-Jack> hexnewbie: Apparently not.
23:07 < nolsen> I do have an offsite server, but rdiff-backup doesn't want to cooperate, so...
23:07 < benklop> yeah, i have redundancy. I think its reliability depends greatly on the quality of your enclosures, power supplies, and chipsets. I had a friend who was trying to rebuild a zpool and needed extra drives, so had some cheap enclosure attached over USB. drives kept dropping out half way through. I lent him my enclosure, and everything went swimmingly.
23:07 < Psi-Jack> So... As thought. No.
23:08 < benklop> two copies on the single raid-1 volume!
23:08 < benklop> :-P
23:09 < nolsen>  [>....................]  recovery =  2.2% (22286272/976630464) finish=4641.5min speed=3426K/sec
23:09 < TR1950X> which kernel version is the most recent compile with gcc 5.4.0 ?
23:09 < nolsen> bitmap: 3/8 pages [12KB], 65536KB chunk
23:09 < hexnewbie> nolsen: Time to reconsider forgoing the mirror, and using that second disk to actually store regular backup of the data?
23:09 < TR1950X> compiled
23:09 < TJ-> nolsen: is there some form of ionice set?
23:10 < nolsen> no
23:10 < hexnewbie> TR1950X: Kernel 4.16 is the most recent one. The rest of the question I don't understand.
23:10 < nolsen> What process does RAID use?
23:10 < lukey> TJ-: ionicing the kernel ?
23:10 < TR1950X> hexnewbie: each kernel is compiled with a certain gcc version.
23:11 < TR1950X> for kernel closed source kernel modules such as CUDA to work, the used gcc version must be the same as the one used to compile the kernel.
23:11 < hexnewbie> TR1950X: Compiled in what manner? Test builds before release?
23:11 < xp_scaling> twainwek: Desktop environment is cinnamon. Screenshot https://imgur.com/a/VhrNB look at the taskbar, it's so tiny.
23:12 < hexnewbie> TR1950X: You mean distribution kernels? If you specify which distribution you mean, someone may know
23:12  * Psi-Jack avoids looking at screenshots of cinnamon.
23:13 < nolsen> I wonder if the slow speeds could be the latency that's causing it
23:13 < nolsen> and small files?
23:13 < hexnewbie> I erase all Cinnamons and replace them with fvwm95
23:13 < Psi-Jack> nolsen: Do you ARE using it while it's building?
23:13 < TR1950X> hexnewbie: ubuntu
23:13 < nolsen> Psi-Jack: I'm not using it right now.
23:14 < nolsen> or, so badly, that it's literally writing at only 2MB/s
23:15 < xp_scaling> Is there really no solution to this? A room full of active linux users, someone would know about display scaling on 1080p since it's so common.
23:15 < hexnewbie> ‘so badly?’ Small file writes may be very little bandwidth and still slow down the rebuild a lot
23:15 < DrunkRhino> benklop, would it make more sense to make a new greeter user and chown the .conf and have unison run as that user for what I'm trying to accomplish? or use unison to do something like ~user/sync and then use an escalated version to sync that to the /etc/ version?
23:16 < TJ-> lukey: yes.
23:16 < nolsen> or fragmentation, no clue.
23:18 < hexnewbie> TR1950X: I may be mistaken, Ubuntu kernels are built with the default GCC version for the Ubuntu version. So Xenial's kernels would be built with 5.3.1, Artful's with 7.2.0 and Bionic's with 7.3.0
23:18 < benklop> DrunkRhino: when you talk about syncing, do you want to be able to change it anywhere and have the change reflected on all the others? or do you just have a single version that you will update somewhere and want to have pushed out? because if it's the latter, then actual syncing software like unison is probably overkill, and you could probably have a nice simple scp  set up to run whenever the file changes (using inotify to dect
23:18 < benklop> changes if you want)
23:19 < Psi-Jack> nolsen: So it's.. a an empty set of drives. Starting the RAID-1 initial sync, riight?
23:19 < nolsen> Psi-Jack: Oh, it's not empty.
23:19 < nolsen> There's about 300GB or so
23:19 < Psi-Jack> Then you are using it. :p
23:20 < hexnewbie> The disk with the more data weighs more, tilting the desk a little bit to its side and causing the data to flow up the cables, thus slower :p
23:21 < DrunkRhino> benklop, The latter for now, the former would be nice sometime if I can work that in later. I have a Desktop, an old netbook hooked up to a TV as a mediacenter (x64, widevine and all), and a pi.
23:21 < lukey> nolsen: If there wasn't any data on it you could skip the initial resync
23:23 < DrunkRhino> Also hoping to try using xdmcp to offload the DE and everything to the pi and leave the netbook to processing just the things that require DRM.
23:24 < TJ-> nolsen: can you use dmsetup to set the min_recovery_rate and daemon_sleep for the array?
23:25 < benklop> you might find remote xorg to be the sort of thing that only makes you sad. video over it would suck. badly.
23:25 < twainwek> xp_scaling: the daskbar looks pretty normal to me. have you perhaps tried adjusting the DPI?
23:25 < Psi-Jack> nolsen: Basically... What you're doing is a bad idea.
23:25 < Psi-Jack> Don't expect much out of it, or support for it. :)
23:26 < twainwek> xp_scaling: also im not familiar with cinnamon, maybe it has settings that let you adjust what you want to adjust?
23:27 < DrunkRhino> benklop, as in netbook -(xdmcp login) -> pi -<-- run chrome on netbook on :0 --> VGA to TV
23:27 < hexnewbie> But don't get flattered by such words. My bad ideas are much much much more horrible ;)
23:27 < DrunkRhino> Yes, I'm a masochist, why do you ask?
23:27 < Psilocyber> Anyone know much about GPU architecture? Trying to determine if I am going to have driver problems running titan X (pascal) and Titan V (volta) in the same system.
23:28 < DrunkRhino> In an effort to keep busy my home network setup has gone from test lab to mad scientist lair.
23:29 < blackflag_bfp> Hi all. trying to find a good channel for a begginer linux user to learn/ask questions/have fun. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
23:30 < benklop> DrunkRhino: I couldn't tell :D I'd suggest trying to akeep a KISS approach, but If your goal is to fill up time, then by all means, make it complicated :D
23:30 < saderror256> Hey all
23:30 < saderror256> Are you recieving my messages under the name SadError256?
23:30 < twainwek> blackflag_bfp: this is fine, but fun is strictly prohibited here
23:30 < saderror256> im doing a pidgin irc test I just set it up
23:31 < blackflag_bfp> ok good. *$#@ fun anyways  :)
23:31 < hexnewbie> Don't listen, I'm having fun all the time. Usually at the expense of coworkers who need to fix my mess afterwards :)
23:32 < blackflag_bfp> well I just made a debian box with awesome since I am trying to stay in CL as much as possible
23:32 < blackflag_bfp> I figured thats a good way to learn
23:32 < Psilocyber> it might be the best way
23:33 < Psilocyber> GUI? we dont need no stinkin GUI!
23:33 < blackflag_bfp> Fact!
23:33 < vlt> blackflag_bfp: Good start. There's also #debian (and #bash).
23:33 < blackflag_bfp> I tried gui and I was like, "I already know crappy windows os"
23:33 < blackflag_bfp> ok thanks vlt
23:34 < lukey> blackflag_bfp: You could have sticked with fbterm+tmux/screen
23:34 < blackflag_bfp> so I am in weechat now, is that a pretty good client or is it good to go with a graphical irc
23:34 < DrunkRhino> benklop, partly that, partly practice, partly squeezing the life out of every last bit of gear I've got. The netbook's lasted 8 years, and at this point I want to see just how long I can keep it kicking.
23:35 < blackflag_bfp> I am unversed in that lukey. I like what awesome offers. Do you feel that is better?
23:35 < saderror256> ok i did again
23:35 < saderror256> are you guys recievning my messages. if so say yes
23:35 < mawk> in C++ to assign a name to a fully specialized template function what's the best way ?
23:35 < twainwek> no
23:35 < lukey> blackflag_bfp: for low-end hardware at least
23:35 < mawk> I did `constexpr auto& blkio_throttle_read_kbps = blkio_throttle<throttle_type::read_kbps>;'
23:35 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: In the words of a wise man once said : use whatever the hell you want.
23:35 < lukey> saderror256: Yes i can see your messages
23:36 < saderror256> lukey: ok thank you :)
23:36 < DrunkRhino> It can handle chrome OK enough, but I think the video would be smoother if I can figuire out just how to render the browser only locally with the rest of the session being basically a thin client.
23:36 < saderror256> im on a raspberry pi 3 right now using raspbian, I am using it as main and it works great
23:36 < saderror256> Im a programmer and not a huge gamer so it works but I can play games like Neverball at low CPU
23:36 < Psi-Jack> No it doesn't work great. It just works.
23:37 < Aljone> HEY GUYS im using ubuntu i want to know how to clear terminal history
23:37 < DrunkRhino> saderror256 I'm stuck on a 2 for the moment, looking forward to the 3
23:37 < Aljone> im logged with root
23:37 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: Well for me it is
23:37 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: absolutely
23:37 < Psi-Jack> Aljone: what's terminal history?
23:37 < lukey> Aljone: echo > ~/.bash_history
23:37 < DrunkRhino> Aljone, ~user/.($shell_of_choice)_history?
23:37 < lukey> Aljone: but why would you do that
23:37 < saderror256> Aljone: rm -rf ~/bash_history
23:38 < Psilocyber> kill -9 $$
23:38 < Psilocyber> dont even leave a history
23:38 < saderror256> FIX TYPO Aljone: rm -rf ~/.bash_history
23:38 < mawk> doing your things will write the history when the current shell exits
23:38 < mawk> better prepend exec to it
23:38 < Psilocyber> this kills the shell -> kill -9 $$
23:38 < Aljone> i fix some issue on my competitor server
23:38 < Aljone> i dont want him to learn what i did
23:38 < saderror256> Aljone: You should probably specify what shell you are using...
23:38 < mawk> or open a blank shell, close the old one, remove the history with a space in front of the command
23:39 < Aljone> im nebie to linux
23:39 < CodeBug> well centOS didn't work out like i expected is there another Linux Distro that will get me closer to a ADMIN env
23:39 < Aljone> newbie
23:39 < Aljone> im using root
23:39 < saderror256> Aljone: Bash maybe?
23:39 < blackflag_bfp> well I am digging Awesome totally. Just wondering if weechat is worth learning all the new stuff or go with a familiar graphical. It does look cool to be in CLI though  :)
23:39 < mawk> you've got a competitor Aljone ?
23:39 < mawk> competitor in what
23:40 < saderror256> DrunkRhino: The 3 is  a much bigger improvement
23:40 < lukey> blackflag_bfp: I'd stick to CLI for IRC, there's not much gain with GUI
23:40 < mawk> to gain the love of a woman ?
23:40 < Aljone> hahaha
23:40 < Psi-Jack> CodeBug: Your statement, and question lacks any sense.
23:40 < Aljone> common would u help me ?
23:40 < Psi-Jack> Aljone: "you" not "u"
23:40 < Aljone> i dont want to fuck anything up just to delete the terminal logs
23:40 < Psi-Jack> Language!
23:40 < blackflag_bfp> lukey: thanks
23:40 < Aljone> Ok ok Psi-Jack
23:40 < saderror256> Aljone: rm -rf ~/.bash_history
23:40 < Psi-Jack> No need for the -r  in that.
23:40 < mawk> Aljone: close the current shell, open a blank one, delete the history with " rm ~/.bash_history" without the quotes and with the space
23:40 < Aljone> close current shell means?
23:41 < mawk> close your ssh session
23:41 < DrunkRhino> saderror256, I'm still sad there's no USB 3.0 On it just yet. Would be nice to plug my external in there and have it use the full speed of the bus and make it a samba server.
23:41 < mawk> open a new one
23:41 < lukey> blackflag_bfp: I have irssi runing in a gnu screen session 24/7 on a pcduino. So I can ssh to it from all my devices and via tor.
23:41 < vlt> blackflag_bfp: weechat is awsome. I run it inside a tmux session to which I can reconnect anytime from anywhere.
23:41 < mawk> history is written on exit
23:41 < Aljone> ok so exit putty
23:41 < lupine> or the f
23:41 < mawk> so using saderror256 won't work
23:41 < blackflag_bfp> I just have to figure out how this works. I passed the first test on connecting and registering nick i suppose
23:41 < Bashing-om> Aljone: See: ' man tput ' . tput reset <- to clear the history file .
23:41 < lupine> always use the least permissive invocation you can. typos later in the day will please you
23:41 < Aljone> rm ~/.bash_history and tput reset are 2 diff
23:41 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: Yes but that is what I always type, solves problems less brain work :P
23:41 < Aljone> what should i choose
23:41 < mawk> don't listen to the tput reset thing
23:41 < blackflag_bfp> lukey: last time I messed with llinux I used Irssi
23:42 < lupine> . and <enter> are surprisingly close
23:42 < mawk> do what I said
23:42 < blackflag_bfp> vlt:
23:42 < Psi-Jack> saderror256: Easily cause worse problems.
23:42 < Aljone> ok so that
23:42 < blackflag_bfp> vlt: I heard great things about weechat
23:42 < mawk> Aljone: alternatively you can type exec bash to open a blank shell in the current session
23:42 < mawk> then you remove the history with ` rm ~/.bash_history' without the `' and with the space
23:42 < Aljone> ok let me do that
23:43 < mawk> next time put a space in front of every command you don't want in the history
23:43 < saderror256> Type "sh", then "rm ~/.bash_history" because sh isn't bash, it shouldn't drop what you typed into the logs
23:43 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Heh, the leading space doesn't hide the command from history, anymore.
23:43 < saderror256> might be wrong there though but I believe SH and BASH are 2 completely different things
23:43 < Aljone> root@SBN:/etc/mysql/conf.d# exit;
23:43 < Aljone> logout
23:43 < Aljone> testuser@SBN:~$
23:43 < Aljone> this is what i got
23:43 < mawk> really Psi-Jack ?
23:43 < mawk> that's lame
23:44 < Psi-Jack> By default.. Yes.
23:44 < blackflag_bfp> I am also using Eterm and vi.
23:44 < Aljone> should i log again as root?
23:44 < lukey> Psi-Jack: depends on you bashrc
23:44 < Aljone> or should i do it from here?
23:44 < mawk> you log as the user you want to clear history
23:44 < vlt> blackflag_bfp: Just to be clear: tmux isn't weechat or irc specific. It's just a great solution for working on CLIs.
23:44 < Aljone> ok so i need to log again using the root
23:44 < mawk> you do it where you want to clear history
23:44 < mawk> yes
23:44 < saderror256> Aljone: You can also do with Sudo (if sudo is installed and you are in the sudoers file). might help with "su" also instead of having to log in and out all the time
23:44 < CodeBug> ok Psi-Jack let me rephrase. I tried CentOS and I'm studying to be a linux sys administrator via LPIC1 etc. the thing of it is, CentOS wasn't really the distro I was looking for. SO should i go with something like Arch or Debian?
23:45 < Aljone> logged
23:45 < Psi-Jack> Bleh. LPIC1 is useless. Don't waste your time.
23:45 < Aljone> now rm ~/.bash_history and again
23:45 < Aljone> and im done?
23:45 < mawk> every other terminal on that server is closed then Aljone ? so you can remove the file now
23:45 < mawk> yes
23:45 < Psi-Jack> Also, CentOS is the most commonly used distro for servers and businesses.
23:45 < krzee> im trying to copy a sdcard (containing multiple partitions /dev/mmcblk0p1-7) to my disk and then to an empty sd card of the same size. i have been trying with:  dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=~k/Desktop/marino.bin bs=4M   which *SEEMS* to work, but then when i use dd if=~k/Desktop/marino.bin of=/dev/mmcblk0 bs=4M I dont end up with a clone of the sd card.  Does anybody know what im missing here?
23:46 < Psi-Jack> CodeBug: I never recommend Arch to a newbie. Or one trying to learn more about Linux (it's not gioing to teach you anything)
23:46 < blackflag_bfp> vlt: ah I see its a terminal multiplexer. So I assume this would eliminate the need for an Xserver entirely?
23:46 < saderror256> Aljone: It drops the fact that you removed ~/.bash_history when you run that into the... bash history. So first type "sh", then run "rm ~/.bash_history" and logout and back in and you should be good
23:46 < Aljone> done
23:46 < mawk> what makes you think you don't have a clone krzee ?
23:46 < mawk> it doesn't matter if there is that last command in the history saderror256
23:46 < Aljone> thank you very much , can i hide the rm ~/...
23:46 < Aljone> lol
23:46 < mawk> if you want
23:46 < Aljone> how
23:46 < mawk> learn to do it yourself, as an exercise
23:46 < Aljone> :)
23:46 < saderror256> optionally if you want to break your system
23:47 < vlt> blackflag_bfp: The answer is somewhere between "depends" and "kind of" :-D
23:47 < krzee> mawk: when i insert the original it mounts 3 partitions, when i insert the second chip it mounts 1 empty partition just like before trying to clone
23:47 < saderror256> Aljone: ~/ is your home directory
23:47 < Aljone> ok all ty v ery much
23:47 < Psi-Jack> Aljone: "thank you" not "ty"
23:47 < blackflag_bfp> vlt: Nice...I love this shit!  ;)
23:47 < Aljone> i ment ~/.bash_history
23:47 < saderror256> oh ok
23:47 < lukey> krzee: Whats up with the ~k/ in your path?
23:47 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: Found the grammer nazi
23:47 < Psi-Jack> saderror256: You don't seem to understand what grammar actually is, or how to spell it.
23:48 < krzee> lukey: ~k/ starts in the user k's home directory
23:48 < CodeBug> DM Psi-Jack
23:48 < Psi-Jack> CodeBug: All PM's are /ignored.
23:48 < blackflag_bfp> so next n00b question is I have spent quite a bit of time getting this rig the way i want it. Now I think i should learn backing up. do you recommend the dd approach or is there a more favorable way
23:48 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: Here is a good joke for you, you should use grammerly.
23:48 < lukey> krzee: Learning something new every day :)
23:49 < saderror256> blackflag_bfp: ddrescue is handy
23:49 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: Borg Backup is very nice.
23:49 < lukey> blackflag_bfp: I user relax-and-recover
23:49 < Psi-Jack> Time to head on home. ;)
23:49 < lukey> blackflag_bfp: wit the duplicity backend. It makes restore super easy
23:50 < CodeBug> well then what Linux distro would you recommend
23:50 < CodeBug> before you head home
23:50 < saderror256> If you like Graphical interfaces you will like Etcher.io
23:50 < saderror256> although it uses Electron |-(
23:50 < lukey> krzee: Are you on a raspberry Pi?
23:50 < blackflag_bfp> now if I apply that question again with the premise I may use linux at work in the future. would that change any answers or same. FYI I started full immersion to linux for future work endeavors.
23:51 < krzee> lukey: im on my laptop but i *am* cloning the sd for a pi
23:51 < CodeBug> saderror256, what Linux distro would you recommend that would teach me something because i'm learning to be a sys admin
23:52 < lukey> krzee: Was just wondering because of the MMC-Interface.
23:52 < vlt> blackflag_bfp: I use a mix of block device level backups (using something called shasplit.py) and rdiff-backup.
23:53 < qman__> CodeBug: RHEL is dominant in business, so if you're looking for mainstream employment, get CentOS - it's the same thing without the support contract
23:53 < pawnshop> CodeBug: Centos is kind of the staple for How to Sysadmin. And if you can CentOS, then you can Redhat, double-trouble that will cover 80%+ of what you'll see.
23:53 < CodeBug> hrm.
23:53 < blackflag_bfp> I first started on an old chromebook making a chroot but 3 days ago I had enough of the MS bureaucracy and thru debian on. I plan to use debian until I feel warm and fuzzy in cli then maybe an arch install, followed by maybe, don't hit me, gentoo, and finally LFS
23:53 < krzee> lukey: im on mint on my laptop (based on ubuntu which is based on debian), thats what the sdcard shows up as
23:53 < Psi-Jack> pawnshop: hehe
23:53 < blackflag_bfp> thank you all for the imput super helpful, I made notes  :)
23:54 < Psi-Jack> I kinda said that earlier already
23:54 < CodeBug> Centos was being a pain because I didnt leave it as a minimal install I tried to install it with all the bells and whistles.
23:54 < Psi-Jack> CodeBug: and?
23:54 < CodeBug> which way should i install it for what i'm trying to do? minimal install? or with a package
23:54 < CodeBug> well Psi-Jack it seemed like too many packages.
23:54 < krzee> which ever way fits your desires?
23:54 < Psi-Jack> Nobody uses CentOS as just minimal...
23:54 < CodeBug> I loved the yum installer over apt honestly
23:54 < CodeBug> well how does the average sys use it
23:55 < krzee> whats an average sys?
23:55 < Psi-Jack> As they want and need
23:55 < qman__> they use it to serve whatever purpose they're trying to solve
23:55 < meyou> i think most people install minimal and then add packages as needed if they're standing up a server
23:55 < lukey> CodeBug: That's not how you learn to Sysadmin
23:55 < tycoon177> i don't have a question, but i just used rsync for the first time and have to wonder where it's been all of my life. it's going to reduce so many headaches
23:55 < blackflag_bfp> CodeBug: I heard that Arch is a great way if your not brand new and LFS is the ultimate way to learn linux
23:55 < meyou> rather than checking the webserver box and letting the installer pick packages
23:55 < CodeBug> well thats the thing going into this Certs and all i don't know what purpose I want for it.
23:55 < krzee> i guess an average system installs it with a web browser so they can see their porn
23:55 < CodeBug> krzee seriously
23:56 < TJ-> krzee: mmcblk devices aren't partitioned like regular block devices. On the target device you need to create a partition table and partitions of the correct size, then dd each partition indivually
23:56 < krzee> TJ-: ohhhhh thanks man
23:56 < krzee> i didnt know that!
23:56 < qman__> CodeBug: business don't use linux for its own sake, they use it to solve business problems, so come up with a business problem, then try to solve it using linux
23:56 < blackflag_bfp> CodeBug: Arch install is minimal. I did a headles debian core install and it forced me to load everything I wanted. learned so much in 2 days
23:56 < CodeBug> blackflag_bfp, Arch is way over my head
23:56 < vlt> tycoon177: I remember the exact date back in 2007 when I first learned of rsync's existence. After I had used linux for more than two years!
23:57 < savage_sage> hi
23:57 < lukey> TJ-: Are you shure about that? Simply cloning whole SD-Cards works for me
23:57 < krzee> lukey: do your sd cards contain multiple partitions?
23:57 < TJ-> krzee: I think there's a way to loopdev mount the file you've got and translate correctly but it's a long time since I did that so can't remember how. It's quicker to replicate partition quantity and sizes
23:57 < krzee> because if mine didnt then this would have been quick and simple
23:57 < lukey> krzee: Yes
23:57 < blackflag_bfp> CodeBug: well I am n00b sauce and I did a debian install from usb, not live but the install, and I oped no desktop environment when it prompted. then I had to apt-get the xinit, awesome, etc..
23:58 < krzee> TJ-: ya i dont really mind, i can whip up a quick script for restoring them now that i know this is an issue
23:58 < TJ-> lukey: it depends on the mmc controller
23:58 < CodeBug> hmm makes sense.
23:58 < lukey> krzee: 6 Partitions from the pcduino im writing this
23:59 < TJ-> krzee: have you loopdev mounted the file itself to check it is valid?
23:59 < tycoon177> vlt: now to hook this up with inotifywatch >:) automatic syncing between directories!
23:59 < lukey> TJ-: But the mmc-controller has no concept of Partitions
23:59 < Sitri> CodeBug: Use any Red Hat based system, setup the following, centralized as much as you can: logging, virtual machine servers (same distro), DHCP, DNS, HTTP load-balancing, Email, VPN, LDAP (for single-sign on), configuration management (ansible, chef or whatever), system monitoring (nagios or zabbix)
23:59 < Sitri> If you get stuck on one, go to the next one.
--- Log closed Tue Apr 10 00:00:30 2018