--- Log opened Sat Apr 14 00:00:01 2018
--- Day changed Sat Apr 14 2018
00:00 < mynameisdebian> and then I added that and it worked
00:00 < kurahaupo> mynameisdebian: "mail". You're supposed to type the from header
00:00 < mynameisdebian> my question was whether TBird does this itself
00:00 < mynameisdebian> pretty obvious answer but I thought I'd ask
00:00 < mynameisdebian> didn't think it would start ww3
00:00 < kurahaupo> mynameisdebian: so we're all sorted?
00:00 < mynameisdebian> kurahaupo: yessir, thank you for your help
00:02 < Dagmar> You could have installed it and tried to run it and found out in less time.
00:02 < mynameisdebian> I guess the longer you extend the conversation, the truer that becomes
00:03 < Dagmar> It was true about 45 seconds after you asked.
00:04 < mynameisdebian> Even if I had somehow downloaded and installed a client, configured it, and sent an e-mail with it, all in 45 seconds, that still wouldn't exactly tell me what I wanted to know.
00:04 < Dagmar> Whatever
00:08 < boblamont> I think these both do the same thing in their way, can someone verify? https://paste.linux.community/view/a127ba76
00:18 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmm... Anyone know the safest way to stop using bcache on a set of disks?
00:20 < stevendale> o/
00:20 < stevendale> sudo kill Psi-Jack
00:20  * Psi-Jack is respawned by systemd.
00:21 < stevendale> \o/ That wasn't killall though
00:21 < stevendale> It has to be a process ID for kill :>
00:31 < CuriousMind> Is it possible to create a soft link to a command?
00:32 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm... I can disable bcache, but unlike what I was informed originally before setting it up, it doesn't seem like removing it totally is viable. hmmm
00:32 < Psi-Jack> CuriousMind: "command" being an executable?
00:32 < uplime> CuriousMind: as long as the command is a file, yes
00:32 < xamithan> You mean like a wrapper ?
00:32 < xamithan> Sure
00:33 < uplime> some sh implementations are actually just links to the system bash
00:33 < CuriousMind> Psi-Jack: command being an executable?
00:33 < CuriousMind> uplime: Ok thanks
00:33 < Psi-Jack> Yes?
00:33 < CuriousMind> Psi-Jack: Meaning it can be run in the shell?
00:33 < TwistedFate> hello, can anyone help me with a firmware problem? i keep getting amdgpu firmware errors in dmesg. debian unstable, https://paste.debian.net/hidden/0a103dfe/
00:34 < TwistedFate> one of the relevant lines [    1.962488] amdgpu 0000:01:00.0: firmware: failed to load amdgpu/polaris10_pfp_2.bin (-2)
00:34 < Psi-Jack> Meaning target is a file that is executable...
00:34 < TwistedFate> i've got firmware-linux-nonfree and firmware-amd-graphics installed
00:34 < Psi-Jack> TwistedFate: #debian-next on often
00:34 < Psi-Jack> Oftc
00:35 < xamithan> Looks like there is already bug reports filed for that TwistedFate
00:36 < CuriousMind> Psi-Jack: I know soft link is for files. I was asking if you can use the soft link command on something other than a file. uplime answered the question
00:36 < uplime> what else would you use it on besides a file?
00:36 < CuriousMind> Psi-Jack: thank you for your help
00:36 < Psi-Jack> CuriousMind: Soft Links, as you call it, is actually a Symbolic link, and you can point symlinks to files or directories.
00:37 < CuriousMind> uplime: I don't know. I asked because I am answering a question and the question is worded very peculiar
00:37 < CuriousMind> Psi-Jack: That is correct, right
00:37 < Psi-Jack> CuriousMind: So... Homework? ;)
00:37 < CuriousMind> Psi-Jack: Mid Term :(
00:37 < Psi-Jack> Do your own homework?
00:37 < CuriousMind> Psi-Jack: I am trying to do it. I am not being lazy, I am doing research and everything
00:38 < TwistedFate> xamithan: oh, it is? can you link it to me please?
00:38 < Psi-Jack> If you were doing research you'd have done the ln command yourself and tried it for yourself.
00:38 < Psi-Jack> Did you do that before even asking ##linux?
00:38 < Selfsigned> IRC servers would be empty if people knew how to use a search engine
00:38 < CuriousMind> Psi-Jack: That is true. I did not do that, but this question baffles me because the teacher wrote it so I am stuck here thinking longer than I probably should
00:38 < xamithan> TwistedFate: http://linux.debian.bugs.dist.narkive.com/i4ZY9TAD/bug-891364-firmware-amd-graphics-please-update-amdgpu-firmware-for-polaris10
00:39 < xamithan> As a workaround it looks like you can manually install those files
00:39 < TwistedFate> xamithan: oh, thanks
00:47 < Psilocyber> Pow, she kicked me square in the kernel.
00:49 < xamithan> But did she fsck your disk
00:53 < Psilocyber> no but she did finger my ports and grep my packets
01:04 < eukaryote_> is there any command that lets me create a file of n bytes, filled with a specific value?
01:04 < Hanumaan> how to make this image based disk https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/QPXrHRpDWG/ into loop device? (sector size 4K)
01:04 < eukaryote_> sort of like dding from /dev/zero but with a byte other than zero
01:04 < meyou_> so you have like one byte you want to repeat?
01:05 < meyou_> or some string of bytes?
01:05 < eukaryote_> yeah, just one byte
01:05 < eukaryote_> like, i want to fill a file with 1GB of 0xFF bytes
01:06 < D-rex> trying to run "fsck -t ntfs --kerneldefrag /dev/sdb1"  but when I do it just prints out "fsck from util-linux 2.32"  am i doing something wrong?
01:06 < oxagast> 2
01:07 < mawk> eukaryote_: use some C program to do that
01:07 < eukaryote_> alright
01:07 < mawk> some interface around truncate followed by mmap followed by memset should do it
01:08 < eukaryote_> or ill just make a loop that prints a single character to stdout over and over
01:08 < eukaryote_> pipes are buffered anyways, right?
01:08 < meyou_> perl -E 'say "A1A2" x N' | xxd -r -p - out.bin
01:09 < meyou_> google tells me to use that
01:09 < meyou_> N being your bytecount
01:09 < meyou_> and A2A2 being your preferred byte
01:09 < meyou_> A1A2*
01:10 < mawk> that's not efficient eukaryote_
01:10 < mawk> especially for 1 GiB
01:10 < mawk> you can do that yes, pipes are buffered
01:10 < mawk> but it's just not efficient enough
01:10 < mawk> a python program could be between these
01:10 < mawk> and fast too
01:10 < meyou_> http://zeroset.mnim.org/2014/01/09/linux-bash-fill-a-binary-file-with-copies-of-the-same-byte-string/
01:10 < eukaryote_> main(c, v)char**v;{while(1){putchar(v[0][0]);}}
01:11 < mawk> noooo eukaryote_ it wasn't what I was talking about
01:11 < mawk> that would be slow, very slow
01:11 < mawk> let me write that for you, hold on a sec
01:11 < eukaryote_> ah
01:11 < eukaryote_> naw its ok
01:12 < eukaryote_> im using tr to replace zeroes with whatever byte
01:12 < eukaryote_> the perl command looks scary
01:12 < mawk> it's quick
01:12 < eukaryote_> from what i can tell, it writes the hex codes into xxd ..?
01:12 < mawk> just mmap the file truncate it, memset it, msync it, close it
01:12 < mawk> 10 lines max
01:13 < eukaryote_> i dont know how to do that, sorry
01:13 < mawk> yeah I'm writing it
01:13 < eukaryote_> nah its ok
01:13 < eukaryote_> im only doing this once so the few seconds shaved off doesnt matter than much
01:24 < mawk> eukaryote_: http://paste.suut.in/Mw3rqQ9v.c
01:24 < mawk> now you know how to write perfect C like me
01:26 < hatp> I have a Ryzen 5 and I'm trying to find the cpu temp based on 2 files I find that make sense in /sys/. /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:18.3/hwmon/hwmon0/temp1_input and /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.3/0000:03:00.2/0000:16:04.0/0000:1f:00.0/hwmon/hwmon1/temp1_input
01:26 < hatp> Do either of those look right?
01:27 < RayTracer> hatp: seems "sensors" looks at /sys/class/hwmon
01:28 < eukaryote_> ls
01:28 < hatp> hmmm. I can't find anything in there for a sensor. And lm_sensors doesn't seem to help
01:29 < RayTracer> /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon1/temp1_input has 31000 here, but I'm on intel
01:51 < slondr> systemdong
01:51 < slondr> Speaking of which, anyone know how I can use systemd as a game engine?
01:52 < Psilocyber> how so
01:52 < slondr> like can I compile a game that runs on systemd
01:55 < Psilocyber> sry, dont know what you mean
01:55 < slondr> ok so
01:55 < Psilocyber> UE4 works great though :P
01:55 < slondr> you know how there are game engines like Unity, Gamemaker, Unreal, etc?
01:55 < slondr> I want to use systemd like those
01:55 < Psilocyber> yes i use UE4
01:55 < Psilocyber> systemd is not a game engine
01:55 < superkuh> slondr, just give it a couple more years.
01:55 < slondr> why not tho?
01:56 < occupant> this has to be a bizarre troll
01:56 < superkuh> Obviously.
01:56 < Psilocyber> lol ok yeah i was just about to say troll
01:56 < occupant> let's just pretend it's not happening
01:56 < slondr> really makes you think huh
01:56 < slondr> ^that's how I feel about systemd
01:56 < meyou_> makes me think something
01:56 < meyou_> that's for sure
01:57 < occupant> I honestly don't get the systemd hate. having deployed a bunch of services with it, it's a fuckload better than writing sysv scripts
01:57 < Psilocyber> its all your faults for not donating to the crowd fund to have poettering 'taken care of'
01:57 < occupant> nearly everything a person could want is already taken care of
01:58 < Psilocyber> who cares how well it works when its basically taken over your system, thats not the linux way of doing things
01:58 < Psilocyber> "im lazy, therefore I dont mind systemd taking over EVERYTHING"
02:00 < sigmet> that's good
02:03 < Psilocyber> guys, guys, this malware is managing my Windows system really well, leave it alone!
02:04 < meyou> i mean if it's not breaking things it's not malware
02:04 < meyou> no true systemd
02:04 < slondr> systemd *works* very well but *is* utter trash
02:05 < slondr> An ideal solution would be OpenRC launching around shepherd/dmd, but nobody has really done that yet
02:19 < rypervenche> Having started using Void for my non-Gentoo machines, I've found runit to be very nice.
02:20 < rypervenche> KISS :)
02:20 < rypervenche> But yeah, everyone will have their opinions. At least we have choice. Not so much in server distros anymore, but we still do in others.
02:21 < Sitri> I find the status mechanism to be lacking in detail.  It's a little to terse.
02:21 < Sitri> Poettering is trying very, /very/ hard to make options not a thing anymore
02:31 < Hanumaan> how to load dd image of a disk as 4K sector device ? losetup does not have sector options
02:32 < Sitri> Sectors only matter for the physical hardware, no?
02:37 < Psi-Jack> systemd trolls are so old.
02:37 < Psi-Jack> So yesterday old. heh
02:41 < saderror256> Deepin isnt spyware
02:42 < o|0o^|> it doesn't come with a single decoder ring
02:44 < o|0o^|> no discount coupons for invisible ink either
02:45 < saderror256> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8btzme/linux_deepin_is_spyware/dx9plzy/
02:47 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, as if reddit were a valuable resource of good information. (it's not, it's 99.9% trolls)
02:47 < pnbeast> Thank goodness for a reliable source of information like reddit.
02:47 < dannylee> ...
02:48 < saderror256> Sure I mean its not the best source but someone DID look through the source
02:48 < pnbeast> So, why don't you post a link to that information?
02:48 < Psi-Jack> It's not even a good source, at all.
02:49 < pnbeast> I did hear that if you use deepin a tank will run over you.
02:50 < saderror256> ^ tankin
02:51 < DrunkRhino> Anyone have any recommendations for hostnames/usernames? Going with a garden theme. So far I've got yggdrasil/norn (pi-hole, half the media center), thorian/thorian (the 8-9 year old netbook, and the DRM-related of the media center), bonsai/gardener (desktop), and gate/gatekeeper (router), but still need a name for my phone, external HD/Samba share, and a printer.
02:51 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: I recommend not creating useless meaningless names, but name it what it is.
02:52 < mawk> when creating a brand new file that I'm gonna fill up using mmap, there is no alternative to ftruncate to first allocate the size I want to write ?
02:52 < ananke> Psi-Jack: what it is often changes. and there may be more of 'what it is' than one
02:52 < mawk> allocate and zero, as a side effect
02:53 < DrunkRhino> ananke, quite right in this case.
02:53 < mawk> using ftruncate that way isn't supported with VFAT which is a bit of a problem
02:53 < mawk> it's often used
02:53 < saderror256> DrunkRhino: potof/sudo???
02:54 < ananke> DrunkRhino: now honestly, I'm not sure why you'd be picking separate usernames for all of those.
02:54 < DrunkRhino> ananke, local accounts with sudo, I do intend to get OpenLDAP up and running on the Pi at some point and just have one roaming profile.
02:54 < Psi-Jack> heh
02:55 < saderror256> my hostname is toomuchram and my name is well, pi. :I
02:55 < ananke> DrunkRhino: sounds overly complicated for home use
02:55 < mawk> hostname different than name ?
02:55 < mawk> or you mean username
02:55 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: It's funny. I work in a company that ended up naming servers after norse, planets, constelations, and not what they actually are, and guess how annoying it is. :)
02:56 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, the ones at my old company were typically drinks. Vodka, Gin, tonic, etc.
02:56 < mawk> my server's name is "serveur"
02:56 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: I'm in the process of de-naming everything, slowly but surely. During the rebuild and relocation. :)
02:56 < mawk> which is server in french as you may have guessed
02:57 < mawk> that's a good name according to Psi-Jack's standards
02:57 < Psi-Jack> server1, yes. That's a good name. If it's a hypervisor that runs VMs, well, hv1. :)
02:57 < saderror256> server1. Keep it simple
02:58 < saderror256> what Psi-Jack said
02:58 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, I can definitely understand in a production environment how itd be annoying, but personally I prefer easily differentiable and recognizable names.
02:58 < Psi-Jack> Heck, even a home environment. Which I also have.
02:59 < saderror256> DrunkRhino: Then do something like the environment, lrserver (living room server), sadcloset (closet server)
02:59 < ananke> cnames are a great way to assign functionality to a given system
02:59 < Psi-Jack> Yep
02:59 < saderror256> what is a cname
02:59 < Psi-Jack> canonical name
02:59 < ananke> saderror256: IN CNAME. google it.
03:00 < saderror256> oh cname records, got me caught up there
03:01 < DrunkRhino> saderror256: well, everything except the phone is in one single room so that's a no go
03:01 < saderror256> DrunkRhino: FancyPhone?
03:03 < DrunkRhino> saderror, I meant the "by location" bit
03:03 < saderror256> err DrunkRhino
03:04 < saderror256> Me: (Press Return To Continue)
03:04 < saderror256> oh wait, this is irc :P
03:04 < toothe> is there a way to change MATE's behavior where when you press the Menu, the whole screen is taken over?
03:04  * saderror256 wants you to (Press Return To Continue)
03:05 < saderror256> toothe: I think its possible using the Mate Menu
03:05 < toothe> I haven't been able to figure out how.
03:05 < toothe> I'm looking at pop-OS
03:05 < toothe> and I can't figure out how to change that behavior, which I find very...ugly.
03:06 < saderror256> If you use the Mate Menu there should be a resize handle *it may be invisible*
03:08 < toothe> yeah, I can't figure out how to change that behavior.
03:08 < toothe> which I find horribly ugly.
03:08 < Selfsigned> Is this channel about linux or about GNU/Linux?
03:08 < toothe> GNU/Linux is wrong.
03:08 < Psi-Jack> GNU/Linux
03:08 < toothe> its called Linux.
03:09 < pnbeast> I call it GNU/Linux.
03:09 < Psi-Jack> Linux is a kernel.
03:09 < jkemppainen> no, Linux is the kernel, toothe
03:09 < toothe> (I submitted a pull request to change `uname` from GNU/Linux to just Linux.
03:09 < samantha95> hi
03:09 < toothe> It was rejected.
03:09 < saderror256> Its called GNU/Linux, but shortened to Linux
03:09 < jkemppainen> gee, can't imagine why it was rejected, toothe
03:09  * jkemppainen rolls eyes
03:09 < toothe> so, why not BSD/GNU/Microsoft/Redhat/Gnome/Linux?
03:09 < toothe> Oh, I forgot oracle.
03:09 < jkemppainen> you don't seem to comprehend what "GNU" is in GNU/Linux
03:10 < toothe> literally the only thing on your system could be `uname` and uname would still flag it as GNU/Linux.
03:10 < saderror256> this is the most casual argument ive ever dealt with in a while
03:10 < toothe> jkemppainen: the userland.
03:10 < pnbeast> toothe, I'm grateful to learn that you've spent your time and real developers' time on something useful like that.  Thanks for your contribution.
03:10 < toothe> pnbeast: burning down those tools would be a contribution.
03:10 < pnbeast> toothe, so go join some channel that has tools you like.
03:10 < jkemppainen> is this guy a troll?
03:10 < Selfsigned> toothe: haha nice one
03:11 < toothe> jkemppainen: so, disagreeing with you is trolling?
03:11 < pnbeast> jkemppainen, he's been festering here for years.  Selfsigned I don't know about.
03:11 < Selfsigned> I'm GNU here
03:11 < Psi-Jack> toothe: More like, disagreeing with pretty much the majority of the Linux community, just because $reasons.
03:11 < toothe> Psi-Jack: Yes, sound reasons.
03:12 < toothe> namely, that Linux's userland is by far more than *just* GNU tools.
03:12 < jkemppainen> toothe: saying something hilariously wrong and the feigning ignorance when you seem to know fully well that GNU provides userland programs and coreutils is the textbook definition of trolling
03:12 < toothe> again, Linux is more than just the coreutils.
03:13 < Psi-Jack> Anyway, this channel primarily focuses on GNU/Linux, pure and simple.
03:13 < saderror256> THink if there was a fork of the GNU tools called something like PNU. Then it would be PNU/Linux
03:13 < saderror256> Calling it "Linux" will get confusing for things like these
03:13 < toothe> I've never heard a response to this argument. People just insisting 'GNU/Linux' with bad arguments. Fair.
03:14 < Selfsigned> I'm still waiting for an answer :)
03:14 < Selfsigned> But I'm guessing it's about *NIX
03:14 < toothe> well, I suppose this isn't going anywhere. Lets agree to disagree.
03:14 < Psi-Jack> Selfsigned: No, you've received a clear answer.
03:14 < saderror256> Selfsigned: It was answered earlier by Psi-Jack
03:14 < pnbeast> Selfsigned, keep waiting.  It's Friday night.  I'm sure you can stir up a real storm if you wait long enough.
03:15 < toothe> but yes, on a more relevant note, Pop_OS's Activities menu takes over the entire screen. Is there a way to change that behavior?
03:16 < Acheron> try another distro
03:16 < Psi-Jack> toothe: How's y our C?
03:16 < saderror256> There is a menu activity replacement in the GNome Tweak Tool. I don't know what it is called, is sadly does not turn off the feature completely but you can try your hardest to do so
03:16  * Acheron was just kidding *
03:16 < stevendale> Hey Acheron :D
03:16 < toothe> Psi-Jack: pardon? I didn't follow that question?
03:16 < Acheron> hello there stevendale
03:16  * Acheron XD *
03:16 < Psi-Jack> toothe: How's your C programming skills/knowledge?
03:16 < toothe> Psi-Jack: fairly high.
03:17 < saderror256> Psi-Jack: I prefer c++
03:17 < Psi-Jack> So, you have the knowledge to change it however you want. :)
03:17 < toothe> Been coding in C for over 20 years now, I think.
03:17 < toothe> I did :)
03:17 < saderror256> but apart from that, im a junior sort of :P only 14 so im learning to become a software programming
03:17 < toothe> Psi-Jack: I changed GNU/Linux to 'Linux Mint'
03:17 < toothe> Psi-Jack: when I said GNU's code is poor, I meant it. Its confusing to read. It could be super easy, but its not.
03:18 < Selfsigned> OpenBSD's code is the opposite
03:19 < Selfsigned> I guess that GNU projects tend to favor optimisation at the expense of clarity
03:19 < konimex> hmm.. now i wonder if there's a project that tries to bring the BSD ecosystem (libc, coreutils and whatnot) to Linux..
03:20 < Selfsigned> void linux has a musl build
03:20 < Selfsigned> s/build/version
03:20 < toothe> oh, I need to look into musl. I hear its "good"
03:20 < konimex> that's one of the components changed, but iirc it still uses gnu coreutils
03:21 < Selfsigned> and alpine linux has musl plus busybox
03:21 < Selfsigned> if you want to go a step further
03:21 < Selfsigned> Does Linux compile on LLVM yet?
03:21 < konimex> aye
03:22 < konimex> mainline? not yet there are still some patches needed
03:23 < Selfsigned> Ah, oh well
03:23 < Selfsigned> Not that there's any real reason to
03:27 < Johnjay> is there some reason wget would return 403 forbidden on giving it a link to download even though firefox can?
03:27 < Johnjay> exact same link
03:28 < kurahaupo> Johnjay: probable a saved cookie or password in FF
03:28 < CuriousMind> Hi. I am trying to run a script and it says command not found on lines 3 and 4. However, lines 3 and 4 are variables. I made the variables uppercase. Why am I getting this?
03:29 < xamithan> Pastebin us the script
03:30 < xamithan> Well one of the lines anyway
03:31 < kurahaupo> CuriousMind: if I had to guess, I'd say your assignments have spaces around the =
03:31 < kurahaupo> Or a value with spaces and no quotes
03:31 < Johnjay> kurahaupo: i'm in a unique situation with very bad internet, can I give wget the cookie somehow?
03:32 < Johnjay> i used to have a downloader extension but it wasn't ported to the new Firefox 57
03:32 < kurahaupo> Johnjay: man wget and search for cookie
03:33 < nobrain> Johnjay: what user-agent are you using in wget?
03:34 < kurahaupo> Johnjay: hopefully Firefox saves its cookies in the same format -- then find ~/.mozilla/profiles/ -name '*cookie*'
03:36 < Johnjay> nobrain: i can set the user agent?
03:36 < swift110> hey all
03:36 < Johnjay> kurahaupo: thanks i'll try
03:37 < nobrain> Johnjay: --user-agent=".."
03:37 < Johnjay> i think given the context kurahaupo is right and it's a cookie
03:38 < Johnjay> this one looks like it might resume downloads, but it doesn't say that anywhere lol https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/s3download-statusbar/reviews/
03:38 < Johnjay> i guess firefox has a resume button so i'll have to rely on that
03:38 < Johnjay> ok well the download just failed after getting 10 MB
03:38 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, well, I'm stumped so I suppose I'll be going with your solution after all, heh.
03:39 < Johnjay> and it resumed. so hopefully i can make this work
03:39 < DrunkRhino> Back to boring names and making the pi play nice with avahi and .local :p
03:41 < Johnjay> avahi sounds familiar. and scary
03:41 < CuriousMind> kurahaupo: Thanks
03:43 < Psi-Jack> Nothing wrong with "boring names" :)
03:43 < Psi-Jack> Easier to remember and understand. :)
03:43 < Xunie> Psi-Jack, fun thing about names: Some people only have one name, others have more than just a "middle name".
03:43 < pnbeast> I name my Linux machines after controversial political figures.  No one ever forgets any of them.
03:44 < Psi-Jack> Better than trying to understand what Apollo, Arachne, Nemesis, and Talos all do. :)
03:44 < Xunie> I've never had to build anything like that, but if I ever have to build a system that deals with real names? I'll be sure to provide a single UTF-8 input box called "Full name" and nothing more.
03:44 < Marquezini> EUA x SIRIA hahahahahaha
03:44 < Marquezini> warrrrr
03:45 < xamithan> ?
03:45 < Xunie> How about naming system after swear words?
03:46 < nobrain> fuckyou
03:46 < nobrain> thats how I named mine
03:46 < xamithan> I like the greek god naming system
03:46 < Psi-Jack> kindly mind the language.
03:47 < Xunie> Psi-Jack, I mind it all the time, that's why I swear so much. Hahaha.
03:47 < Psi-Jack> Yet doing so here.... Would land you outside the channel. ;)
03:47 < jml2> Psi-Jack always has to be so "politically correct"
03:48 < Xunie> ^ Gotta second this.
03:48 < xamithan> You know,  the rules just say it is discourged,  not kick|bannable right ?
03:48 < Selfsigned> I'm guessing he doesn't use the "offensive" USE flag :)
03:48 < Xunie> No offense, Psi-Jack. There's a limit to be indecent, but there's also a limit to being "decent".
03:48 < Xunie> Just my two cents, Psi-Jack. <3
03:48 < xamithan> If people are getting kicked or banned for it wouldn't you just say it isn't allowed?
03:49 < xamithan> I don't care either way just curious why the rules are like that
03:50 < Acheron> my favorite server was "marathon"
03:50 < pnbeast> You named your machines after candy bars?
03:51 < Acheron> marathon is from the Greek silly
03:51 < pnbeast> Greeks didn't use Linux.
03:51 < Psi-Jack> ^
03:52 < Selfsigned> swearing is an important part of troubleshooting
03:52 < Acheron> The name Marathon[n 1] comes from the legend of Philippides or Pheidippides, the Greek messenger.
03:52 < jml2> Acheron, maraton is anyone who has two feet and can walk or run.
03:53 < Acheron> you bickering toads
03:53 < jml2> Acheron, I invented crawling.
03:53 < Selfsigned> It's about paying to run
03:54 < pnbeast> Acheron, I'm a beast, but not a toad.  I am not a toad! </nixon>
03:54 < Psi-Jack> Selfsigned: That'll be $5,000, payable only in direct verified transfer.
03:55 < Selfsigned> I'm guessing a lot of employers would pay for it though
03:55 < CuriousMind> I just deleted a file in command line. How do I restore my file?
03:55 < Selfsigned> CuriousMind: haha
03:55 < Psi-Jack> CuriousMind: Restore from backup.
03:55 < CuriousMind> I don't have a backup. I am doing this on the virtual machine :(
03:55 < Selfsigned> CuriousMind: if you've got a snapshot now's the time to use it
03:55 < Psi-Jack> No backup? Wasn't important then. Move along.
03:56 < Selfsigned> if it really was important you can copy the drive and try to recover what's missing with photorec
03:56 < CuriousMind> Ahh forget it
03:56 < CuriousMind> Thanks though guys
03:57 < pnbeast> CuriousMind, what does that have to do with it?  If your data are important, you better back them up.  Computers sometimes fail, and more often, people type things in error.
03:57 < Aztec03> Ahoy everyone!
03:57 < Selfsigned> CuriousMind: in case you want to prevent this in the future COW filesystems like BTRFS or ZFS offer almost free snapshots
03:57 < pnbeast> Aztec03, even me?
03:57 < jml2> CuriousMind, oh yeah I remember you, you're that crontabber from dah bronx!!
03:57 < Aztec03> yup, even ye
03:58  * pnbeast feels all nautical.
03:58 < Selfsigned> Personally I put my important stuff in git repos and hope for the best
03:58 < jml2> not backing up is a sin
03:59 < Selfsigned> Losing your data can be liberating
03:59  * jml2 wishes he were a command-line hero :( https://opensource.com/article/18/4/command-line-heroes-podcast-agile-devops
04:00 < Psi-Jack> Heh
04:00 < Psi-Jack> Good podcast by Red Hat actually.
04:00 < toothe> I'm not the most versed with xargs...I ran a series of greps/awk and have a final list of a few items. I'd like to run that list a few times through another command as the argument each time. How would I go bout doig that?
04:00 < Selfsigned> are they so agile that they can run on walls?
04:01 < pnbeast> Like little geckos?
04:02 < Aztec03> I'm tryna do a service, but it appears to start before networking does... here is systemd service: https://pastebin.com/9VGjJ2aS and here is appropriate script: https://pastebin.com/1P5e9SF7 How are I screwing the pooch? How2fix?
04:02 < Psi-Jack> Aztec03: Never use pastebin.com
04:02 < Aztec03> manual starting via terminal works fine
04:03 < Aztec03> shh hang
04:03 < Psi-Jack> It ruins everything. ;)
04:03 < Aztec03> but `sudo systemctl status ruslanftp` gives: Apr 13 20:52:11 me ruslanftp.sh[1271]: Error connecting to ftp:
04:03 < nobrain> I have a friend that lost all his hair when he started using pastebin
04:04 < Aztec03> ya druggahs. I already did it on the pastebinz.
04:04 < Psi-Jack> Good luck.
04:04 < Psi-Jack> NEXT!
04:04 < Aztec03> what do ya want me ter use, baus?!
04:04 < pnbeast> ftp?  Ugh, this one seems to be headed in a bad direction.  Are you sure you *want* it to run?
04:05 < Aztec03> ya it's exploratory, I'm decided on it till my buddy can get his server fixed
04:05 < Aztec03> I'm trying to volunteer to host a cesium-based timestandard.
04:06 < Aztec03> a buddy sent me a bunch of equipment 'cuz he's a good man, and setup a basic FTP server with many infos on it
04:06 < Aztec03> and I'm tryna auto-mount his currently-only-ftp share
04:06 < Psi-Jack> Talking like a moron doesn't help either.
04:07 < Aztec03> My apologies for my latest chosen vernacular, Psi-Jack. If it would help for me to speak in my natural-born manner, I shall.
04:07 < Psi-Jack> Too late.
04:07 < Aztec03> fuck.
04:08 < Aztec03> I appreciate your solidarity to your own linguistic ideals
04:09 < Selfsigned> This is just like in the movies!
04:10 < CuriousMind> I tried running a script file. After I tried to run it, it says "touch: missing file operand"
04:10 < Aztec03> so, given a situation of having only FTP access, and intending to use curlftpfs to automount the FTP server, WITHOUT using fstab, and instead systemd, what is one to do?
04:12 < jml2> Aztec03, to tweet this guy-> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
04:12 < jml2> Aztec03, LOL
04:12 < Selfsigned> CuriousMind: sounds like the script is fudged up
04:12 < Aztec03> ew
04:12 < Aztec03> I don't political on the twits
04:13  * jml2 "Our relationship with Russia is worse now than it has ever been, and that includes the Cold War. "
04:13 < jml2> XD
04:13 < ayecee> no politics here please
04:13 < CuriousMind> Selfsigned: Look, I am referring to this to help me, but I still don't have an answer. https://goo.gl/Aej8mQ
04:14 < Selfsigned> Not clicking on that google link :)
04:14 < CuriousMind> Selfsigned: My variable isn't in quotations
04:16 < Selfsigned> Oh it's stack overflow
04:17 < CuriousMind> In my script, I did `touch $file_name` on line 10. After I run the script, it says `touch: missing file operand`. Why?
04:17 < ayecee> CuriousMind: $file_name was empty
04:17 < Selfsigned> yep that's the likeliest reason
04:18 < ayecee> could be aliens
04:18 < CuriousMind> ayecee: Before the touch line on line 10, I wrote `read $file_name` so how is it still empty?
04:18 < ayecee> you would have had to do read file_name, not read $file_name
04:18 < CuriousMind> ayecee: Ohhhh ok, thanks. I'm going to try that right now
04:19 < Selfsigned> yeah you define variables with VARIABLE_NAME and use them with $VARIABLE_NAME
04:20 < CuriousMind> Selfsigned: Yeah, I didn't know that
04:20 < CuriousMind> Selfsigned: Thanks
04:20 < Selfsigned> yw
04:23 < DrunkRhino> Ok, this is probably something stupidly simple that I'm forgetting, but why might a machine running dnsmasq + dhcp resolve the names properly for clients querying it, but not on the machine itself?
04:23 < ayecee> the machine itself isn't querying it
04:23 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: Using NetworkManager?
04:23 < ayecee> there should be 127.0.0.1 in /etc/resolv.conf
04:24 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, it is
04:24 < ayecee> check again
04:25 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, I meean like "ping eee" from my tower returns .0.5 like it should, but ssh'd into the pi itself serving up those queries and DHCP leases "ping eee" returns "Name or Service not known"
04:25 < ayecee> your tower is running windows?
04:25 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, nope
04:25 < ayecee> ok
04:25 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, all running arch (or arch ARM in the pi's case)
04:26 < CuriousMind> Hi, why isn't this working? https://pastebin.com/etH14hFL
04:26 < DrunkRhino> !paste
04:26 < ayecee> CuriousMind: it's polite to describe the problem and not just dump links
04:27 < pnbeast> We don't know why pastebin is so bad.  We just use sane sites and ignore it.
04:27 < Psi-Jack> There's many reasons why pastebin.com is bad.
04:27 < CuriousMind> The error I got says ln: failed to create symbolic link './tmp': File  exists
04:27 < Psi-Jack> Ads, breaking pastes, retaining pastes permanently without your approval, malvertising, adblock blocking even in "Raw" mode.
04:27 < CuriousMind> ayecee: I wasn't finished
04:29 < Psi-Jack> CuriousMind: Describe the problem first, provide links during or after. And never use pastebin.com :)
04:30 < CuriousMind> Psi-Jack: Ok. What should I use instead then? I'm only using what I know
04:30 < ayecee> there's a pastebin in the channel topic
04:30 < Psi-Jack> ^
04:30 < ShadeS> is there any more security offered with sudo -e vs sudo vi ?
04:30 < Psi-Jack> SPeaking of which someone needs to get word to WildPikachu that his pastebin is being used for spam and possibly a C&C point.
04:31 < ShadeS> i know i can set -e to be vi by it's not by default, (and it should be tbqh)
04:31 < Psi-Jack> tbqh?
04:31 < ShadeS> to be quite honest
04:31 < CuriousMind> Ok I understand. I'll use the channel's pastebin
04:31 < Psi-Jack> Man. People keep inventing this new watered down language.
04:31 < ShadeS> tbqh has been around a decade
04:32 < ShadeS> i seen it in here first, I think, actually
04:32 < Psi-Jack> I've been around more than 2 decades. :p
04:32 < ayecee> tbh would be more common
04:32 < ayecee> and even that is rare
04:32 < Psi-Jack> ^
04:32 < ShadeS> it's more rare now
04:32 < ShadeS> was more common back in the day
04:32 < Psi-Jack> No, it was never common.
04:32 < ayecee> probably depends on the forum
04:32 < ShadeS> was in my irc circles/channels
04:33 < ShadeS> tail -f error.log isn't giving me anything usefu when I hit my domain so I guess it must be writing to another file
04:39 < ShadeS> this stock apache conf file i'm goign to have to edit
04:39 < wallbroken> hi
04:40 < wallbroken> is possible to read the ssh command history from file system?
04:40 < wallbroken> is stored somewhere?
04:40 < ShadeS> your history will list what ssh connections you created with what parameters
04:41 < DrunkRhino> So any ideas why I can ping DHCP clients by hostname from devices other than the pi, but not on the pi itself which is handing those leases out?
04:41 < ShadeS> is icmp on the pi?
04:42 < jml2> DrunkRhino, weren't you having pi problems last night?
04:43 < lupine> yo DrunkRhino
04:43 < jml2> wallbroken, if your shell has history enabled? "history"<enter> for bash
04:43 < DrunkRhino> jml2, considering everything that I've been doing with it I have been, and will continue to be having pi trouble for the forseeable future
04:43 < wallbroken> jml2, i have only fs access
04:43 < wallbroken> the OS is not loaded
04:44 < wallbroken> it's an sd card
04:44 < wallbroken> with the fs
04:44 < wallbroken> mounted on my pc
04:44 < jml2> wallbroken, uh ok, so check the bash history file in one of the profiles
04:45 < DrunkRhino> lupine: Que?
04:46 < jml2> DrunkRhino, you could possible make a hostname-ip mapping with your bind service or whatever is running the dns server.
04:46 < lupine> I was just wondering if you were the rhino I know
04:46 < lupine> I think not
04:46 < lupine> anyway, I expect your problem is that your pi is querying a different DNS server to itself
04:46 < lupine> check /etc/resolv.conf
04:47 < wallbroken> jml2, how?
04:47 < DrunkRhino> ... It's 127.0.0.1, as it's set in /etc/systemd/network/eth0.network
04:47 < lupine> ok, that's correct then. ignore me :D
04:47 < Psi-Jack> Heh, /etc/systemd/network/eth0.network != /etc/resolv.conf
04:48 < ShadeS> if I hit: <?php in the body of my web browser, it means that the server doesn't have php installed? or just not enabled? or both?
04:48 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, true, but as it's set up currently it'll overwrite it on boot up :p
04:48 < Psi-Jack> What matters is the here and the now.
04:49 < Sitri> ShadeS: Or the webserver isn't configured to serve that file through PHP, or the PHP script itself actually outputs <?php, or a number of other things.
04:49 < wallbroken> help!
04:49 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, yes, and as I stated, it's 127.0.0.1, it's set everywhere else as 127.0.0.1, the only external DNS servers are listed in /etc/pihole/setupVars.conf
04:49 < lektronx> I'm trying to build a custom fedora live image/installer using packages that don't have officiial rpm support. would i have to build rpms, make a local repo and add it to the kickstart file?
04:49 < ShadeS> urgh
04:49 < ShadeS> i'm goign to guess with it's just not put on there
04:49 < ShadeS> because that would be too convinent for whoever set it up
04:50 < Psi-Jack> lektronx: By learning how to do all that, first.
04:50 < ShadeS> that sounds like a lot of work
04:50 < jml2> wallbroken, cat /path/to/homes/*/.bash_history |grep ssh
04:50 < jml2> lol
04:50 < jml2> jc
04:51 < Psi-Jack> jc?
04:52 < CuriousMind> How do I get the string that is after the last last towards the right? Text: /home/<username>/happy_new_year.txt
04:52 < CuriousMind> Would I need to use a regex or something?
04:52 < pnbeast> Psi-Jack, it's an uncommon, watered-down language idiom that you haven't seen in your 20 years, here.
04:52 < lektronx> i've already modified the fc 27 rootfs image, i was hoping the installer would just copy any apps integrated on that automatically
04:53 < lektronx> Psi-Jack: i think you might have misread my question...
04:53 < CuriousMind> after the last slash*
04:53 < Psi-Jack> lektronx: Nope. Sure didn't. :)
04:53 < lektronx> Psi-Jack: np learning to do that stuff, i'm trying to verify that is actually the correct procedure
04:53 < Sitri> CuriousMind: What's your usecase (there's a few ways to do it with bash, but it depends how you're using that)
04:53 < lektronx> or if the modified root image with the installed applications would be enough
04:54 < wallbroken> jml2: https://pastebin.com/raw/i9Qy55iV
04:54 < Psi-Jack> lektronx: You can do all that, sure.
04:55 < CuriousMind> Sitri: I want to create a symbolic link which includes text from another file
04:55 < CuriousMind> the original file
04:55 < Sitri> CuriousMind: $ foo=1/2/3/4/5; echo ${foo##*/}; basename ${foo} # two methods to do it
04:55 < Sitri> Wait, what?
04:56 < CuriousMind> Sitri: That is what I am saying haha
04:56 < lektronx> Psi-Jack: of course i can, the question was *should* i?
04:56 < CuriousMind> I am reading what you are saying, but I don't understand
04:56 < Sitri> Did you run it?
04:56 < Psi-Jack> lektronx: It's a sound plan.
04:56 < CuriousMind> Sitri: Not yet because I am just trying to understand what it means
04:57 < jml2> i know this is not politics, but my news update here says that the USA just started launch missiles into syria... this is ww3 baby
04:57 < CuriousMind> Sitri: For example, are the two pound signs to be replaced by a number?
04:57 < Sitri> The echo uses a pure-bash method.  Basename is a utility that will return the filename in a path
04:57 < Sitri> No
04:57 < CuriousMind> Sitri: ok
04:58 < CuriousMind> Sitri: Ohhh ok, I see. I will use basename. I will try that now, one second
05:00 < CuriousMind> Sitri: I tried it and it said bad substitution
05:00 < Sitri> Show me the command
05:02 < CuriousMind> Sitri: basename ${/home/<username>/happy_new_year.txt}
05:03 < CuriousMind> I thought that it would return "happy_new_year.txt"
05:04 < Sitri> ${} is to use a variable
05:04 < Sitri> basename /home/.../happy_new_year.txt
05:05 < CuriousMind> Sitri: Ahhh, you are correct. Ok thanks
05:06 < CuriousMind> Just did it. yep you were right
05:06 < ShadeS> man this is almost too easy
05:06 < ShadeS> I know causation isn't correlation, but remember when I was foggy the other day on how to get this done, I lit up a wood and now it's all coming back to me and running fine or getting there
05:06 < CuriousMind> ShadeS: What are you talking about lol>?
05:07 < ShadeS> I was having trouble with this lamp stack
05:07 < ShadeS> and now i'm not
05:07 < CuriousMind> lamp stack? *googles*
05:08 < ShadeS> vs mean stack
05:08 < ShadeS> ok now I am having a particular hangup i think ubuntu/debian related regarding writability or ownership
05:09 < ShadeS> I'm told /var/www/html/projectname/config.php isn't writeable but it is: -rwxr-xr-x
05:09 < de-facto> hmm is there any good serial console program to connect to a hw UART interface? i need to set: TxD: 300 bps, 8 data-bits, parity: none, 2 stop-bits AND RxD: 300bps, 7 data-bits, parity: even, 2 stop-bits
05:09 < ShadeS> oh i gues sthat is execute and read but not write
05:09 < ShadeS> 777 it is then
05:10 < DrunkRhino> ShadeS, writable would probably be more like 644
05:10 < ShadeS> note to self make sure to undo that epic fail after youre' done setting this up
05:10 < ShadeS> DrunkRhino: well the thing said to do either 777 or 755
05:10 < ShadeS> it doesn't need to be writen to after setup anyway
05:11 < DrunkRhino> Wait, no, never mind me, that's -rw-r--r--
05:11 < DrunkRhino> 755 is rwxrw-rw-
05:11 < CuriousMind> Sitri: How do I assign basename output to a variable
05:12 < CuriousMind> ShadeS: Just do filepath=basename /home/<username>/happy_new_year.txt ?
05:12 < DrunkRhino> Wait, no, blech. I think I need sleep.
05:12 < ShadeS> " If 0755 does not work try 0777." straight from the horses mouth
05:13 < Sitri> CuriousMind: filepath=`basename ...` or filepath=$(basename ...)
05:13 < CuriousMind> Sitri: Thank you!
05:14 < ShadeS> drwsrwsrwx what is the s?
05:15 < DrunkRhino> ShadeS, yeah, ignore me, it's 11pm, and I'm switching between too many things with not enough caffeine in me to keep track of them all.
05:15 < sseeley> shares: setuid
05:18 < Sitri> ShadeS: man chmod
05:22 < CuriousMind> Sitri: Hi, I am sorry to bother you. I have another question
05:24 < CuriousMind> I'm trying to put the present time in the filename. How do I do so? Here is my code and it doesn't work.  https://paste.linux.community/view/74e77a8e
05:27 < boblamont> What does the "1" do after -strftime in this command: ffmpeg -i http://admin:Stupidpassword1@10.12.10.40/Streaming/channels/1/picture -vframes 1 -f image2 -strftime 1 "%Y-%m-%d_%H-%M-%S_doorbell.jpg"?
05:28 < Sitri> CuriousMind: because the variable now is just set as a string
05:29 < CuriousMind> Sitri: Yes. I am working on the problem as I speak. I'm referring to this https://goo.gl/EW7wah. I got 30 minutes until I have to finish this
05:31 < Sitri> CuriousMind: `` or $() as before
05:31 < Sitri> Though many of your commands are missing spaces
05:31 < CuriousMind> Sitri: Yes, I did that but I have a problem! After I changed the code and ran it, it says touch: cannot touch ‘happy_new_year.txt/home/<username>/happy_new_year.txt20180414_03:30:33’: Not a directory
05:31 < CuriousMind> I almost got it!
05:32 < Sitri> <Sitri> Though many of your commands are missing spaces
05:35 < CuriousMind> Sitri: I did it!! I'm done, thanks'
05:36 < luxio> Is it possible to replace /dev/random with the output from an antenna?
05:40 < fendur> luxio: I don't know. But I'm curious why.
05:40 < spaceman> luxio very interesting ..
05:40 < luxio> fendur: true random numbers instead of pseudorandom numbers
05:40 < luxio> or rather, much closer to true random
05:41 < fendur> luxio: has anyone ever tested that hypothesis?
05:41 < luxio> i don't know
05:41 < luxio> i'd love to though
05:41 < Roserin> Pretty sure true random is a thing
05:41 < Roserin> Atomic decay??
05:42 < fendur> Roserin: not whether it's "a thing", but whether rf signals local to you, picked up by an antenna, would be even as good as pseudo random numbers.
05:42 < luxio> fendur: I could put tin foil over the antenna
05:42 < Roserin> oh
05:42 < Roserin> That is also a cool idea
05:43 < luxio> found this: https://github.com/pwarren/rtl-entropy
05:44 < fendur> thanks luxio
05:45 < fendur> Roserin: I bet some folks in #philosophy would love to debate you on whethr "true random" is a thing.
05:52 < CuriousMind> I spent eight hours on one question and I finally did it Sitri
05:53 < CuriousMind> Thank god!
05:53 < CuriousMind> When I deleted my file I was about to give up lol. vi recover saved me
05:58 < dannylee> .
05:58 < o|0o^|> `
06:00 < blackflag_bfp> when doing a full system backup img using dd is it always the best practice to boot into a live environment?
06:00 < tpanarch1st> could these ownership permissions be accomplished through FTP and are they insecure please? Many thanks
06:00 < tpanarch1st> https://docs.suitecrm.com/admin/installation-guide/downloading--installing/
06:01 < tpanarch1st> installation went through, apparently fine, except that I couldn't log in
06:01 < rumpel> blackflag_bfp, do you mean like "is it a good idea, to not make changes in a book while you copy it"?
06:02 < tpanarch1st> so I reinstalled just in case it was a basic password issue but clearly not :)
06:02 < blackflag_bfp> rumpel: yes. I suppose I should ask is it necessary to not be accessing the filesystem drive when performing a dd .img of it
06:03 < blackflag_bfp> I suppose I could read the man for dd some more
06:03 < rumpel> blackflag_bfp, the reason for that is to avoid inconsistencies. In worst case you end up with a broken system in the image.
06:03 < rumpel> blackflag_bfp, it's probably not in the man. It's about the basic concept of copying a file.
06:04 < blackflag_bfp> rumpel: so a "good practice" of this has to be done locally?
06:04 < rumpel> blackflag_bfp, let's say you start making an image and dd already wrote the boot entries for kernel A. While it copies, you remove kernel A and install kernel B. Then dd copies kernel B but can't copy A, because it's not there anymore. The OS in the image won't be able to boot.
06:08 < fareast> willing to dump windows if someone can get me up and running with quickbooks on linux.
06:08 < fareast> I am getting stuck at the tos agreement screen it crashes during install/
06:09 < fareast> using wine atm
06:10 < blackflag_bfp> rumpel: thank you for the info
06:13 < rumpel> blackflag_bfp, doing it on a running system is still an option, though. It's just a bit more risky.
06:15 < intx> how to sync a file FROM a host via ssh? rsync seems to only be able to sync TO
06:16 < meingtsla> Oh?
06:17 < jaggz> how do you get the xset s setting?  (screensaver timeout) and dpms as well?
06:21 < intx> sorry my mistake, didn't have rsync installed on the remote system. thanks!
06:21 < intx> meingtsla: thanks
06:21 < sssilver> I don't understand what's with this latest trend of not distributing software via standard OS packaging mechanisms????
06:22 < sssilver> it's pervasive
06:22 < sssilver> NPM, Kubernetes, Docker, none of them ship a Debian package
06:22 < sssilver> they all have this shitty script that you download and invoke
06:22 < sssilver> and it does something
06:22 < sssilver> and then nobody knows how to properly purge all that crap it did
06:22 < sssilver> does anyone understand what's happening?
06:23 < sssilver> Rust does this as well
06:23 < sssilver> so does Golang
06:23 < sssilver> wtf
06:23 < sseeley> sssilver: people are hard
06:23 < boblamont> I just got this error https://paste.linux.community/view/37d7a5fa while trying to record with ffmpeg -loglevel panic -nostats -hide_banner -f alsa -ac 2 -ar 44100 -ab 128k -i hw:0,0 -t 3600 -acodec libmp3lame /home/bsr/archives/1h/01-mon-0000.mp3
06:23 < sssilver> sseeley: isn't it a lot easier to just say "install package golang with your favorite package manager"?
06:24 < sssilver> this approach defeats the whole purpose of having distros
06:24 < sssilver> a distro is literally a package manager and some default set of packages
06:25 < sssilver> I've installed Docker through their script and now my whole system is littered with their crap and I have to manually go find what's where and what I should delete
06:25 < sseeley> sss: I guess they prefer you bypass the package maintainers to get fresher stuff
06:25 < sssilver> sseeley: that doesn't make sense, any package manager allows you to add a third party source or repository
06:25 < sssilver> they can source their own package
06:26 < sseeley> yeah...
06:26 < sssilver> add-apt-repository is a thing
06:26 < sssilver> this is so sloppy
06:26 < sssilver> hell if you don't wanna source your shitty package, at least provide a deb or some kind of a thing that my package manager can reason about
06:27 < sssilver> don't give me a shell script that literally curls some unknown crap over the internet and immediately invokes it
06:27 < sssilver> this seems like basic hygiene
06:27 < sssilver> or lack of one, rather
06:27 < sssilver> how did this become a thing even? 15 years ago if anyone did this the whole community would go thermonuclear on them
06:28 < nobrain> i'm not giving u shit dawg
06:28 < Psi-Jack> Mind the language, and "you"
06:28 < sssilver> I'm a human, and there are no dogs here
06:28 < nobrain> "language and you" that's a good title for a book
06:29 < rumpel> woof
06:29 < sseeley> sss: millennials
06:52 < rypervenche> sssilver: Not that I don't agree with you, but I feel you should have looked at the script first before running it :P
06:53 < Roserin> cUrl | sh
06:54 < sanroot> do anybody knows how to live boot in virtual box via flash drive
06:54 < Roserin> not even once
06:57 < Aph3x-WL> young folk ruining our linox D:
06:57 < Roserin> Aph3x-WL, _
06:57 < Roserin> s/_/?
06:58 < rypervenche> sanroot: I believe you need the proprietary USB extension for VirtualBox to get that working. Google shows how it's done.
06:58 < saltystew> Aph3x-WL, what are you on about
06:59 < sssilver> just look at this crap -- sudo curl -L https://github.com/docker/compose/releases/download/1.21.0/docker-compose-$(uname -s)-$(uname -m) -o /usr/local/bin/docker-compose
06:59 < sssilver> this is official docker documentation
06:59 < sssilver> how on earth is every sysadmin in the world not blasting them for this?
06:59 < sanroot> thanks rypervenche
07:00 < Aph3x-WL> saltystew: are you stalking me? also my comment was in reference to sssilver asking how things got the way they are nowadays
07:00 < saltystew> people got lazy
07:00 < sssilver> it's time to admit that Docker has created more problems than it has solved, and not because the idea of containerization is bad, but because Docker has solved it horribly every step of the way, down to goddamn packaging the binaries
07:00 < sssilver> omg I'm so pissed
07:00 < sssilver> I need to go get beer or something
07:00 < sssilver> this isn't healthy
07:01 < o|0o^|> lollo0^
07:01 < rypervenche> sssilver: If you don't like it, then don't use it. Or change it. :)
07:02 < sssilver> I feel like with time people in the industry just became less and less competent and thoughtful somehow
07:02 < saltystew> I guess I'm part of the problem, I use docker but have no idea what your talking about
07:02 < Aph3x-WL> saltystew: it's not that people got lazy it's that a generation of windows users came over and want to ruin our linus/gnu
07:02 < saltystew> I don't look at their docs though anymore cause they're pretty shit
07:02 < sssilver> someone in the #docker channel just told me "does it need a package? it's a single Go binary"
07:02 < pnbeast> sssilver, tell us how you really feel.
07:03 < saltystew> Aph3x-WL, can you give an example?
07:04 < Aph3x-WL> saltystew: yes, every person that came over within the last 10-15 years :P
07:04 < stevendale> Hi pnbeast
07:05 < sssilver> the thing that is the most annoying is that Docker is a billion dollar company
07:05 < saltystew> Aph3x-WL, that's not an example of how they're ruining it
07:05 < sssilver> freaking OpenSSL is maintained by two dudes and they manage to properly package it for every major and minor distro, and Docker cannot do this
07:06 < nobrain> sssilver: you don't have to worry about bad coded software, we're all going to die soon
07:08 < pnbeast> OpenSSL is a useful and versatile package, but I think the past few years have made clear that the "maintenance" and "proper" are not the model of development you're claiming, sssilver.
07:11 < Hdphn> since most laptop vendors dont upgrade firmware after few years
07:11 < Hdphn> I am left between chromebooks and macbooks
07:11 < Hdphn> which one is the right choice?
07:14 < sssilver> if my binary has -rwxr-xr-x, shouldn't I be able to execute it as any user even if it's owned by root?
07:16 < pnbeast> sssilver, what's your real question?
07:17 < sssilver> I'm getting permission denied: /usr/local/bin/docker-compose when trying to invoke it
07:17 < sssilver> though it has the above permissions
07:19 < pnbeast> sssilver, that does sound odd.  Are there unusual mount options on the partition, or SELinux concerns or ACLs hiding someplace?  Is it a real binary, or is it wrapper script masking a permission error in some binary/other program that it calls?
07:19 < sssilver> pnbeast: it's a statically linked regular binary I think
07:19 < sssilver> the only unusual thing is that this is a Digital Ocean droplet running Debian
07:20 < sssilver> but I don't think that should matter
07:20 < pnbeast> Well, I hate to be a broken record, but how do you feel about stracing it?  I know that's no fun and hard to read and all, but it might pinpoint something.
07:21 < sssilver> sure good idea
07:21 < sssilver> strace: Can't stat '/usr/local/bin/docker-compose': Permission denied
07:21 < sssilver> I'm starting to question my sanity
07:22 < pnbeast> Hmm, namei -l <your binary>?
07:22 < sssilver> -rwxr-xr-x root root docker-compose
07:23 < pnbeast> Can you open the file with some tool like "less"?
07:24 < sssilver> as root I can, as regular user I cannot
07:24 < sssilver> /usr/local/bin/docker-compose: Permission denied
07:24 < sssilver> this doesn't make sense to me
07:24 < sauvin> Parent directory permissions problem, maybe?
07:24 < pnbeast> Each step in the namei output shows permissions allowing *all* users and groups access?
07:25 < sssilver> sauvin: does parent directory matter? who should /usr/local/bin be owned by?
07:25 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: How did you schedule borg again?
07:25 < sssilver> do I need an execute flag on /usr/local/bin?
07:25 < pnbeast> Certainly.
07:26 < sssilver> that was it, thanks guys
07:26 < pnbeast> Did you actually run the namei command?
07:26 < sssilver> yes
07:26 < pnbeast> As the user with the permission error?
07:27 < sssilver> pnbeast: hm, I think I must have run it as root
07:28 < pnbeast> Good.  That helps me to not worry about my m4d 5ki11s.
07:40 < Foxfir3_> You may not download Fedora software or technical information if you are located in one of these countries or otherwise subject to these restrictions. You may not provide Fedora software or technical information to individuals or entities located in one of these countries or otherwise subject to these restrictions.
07:40 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: I did it with borgmatic, which came with a nice handy dandy systemd timer.
07:41 < Foxfir3_> sorry for the long paste. I find this 'agreement' interesting. Apparently all tech companies in the US have to agree to It. So the US government decides what freedom is, apart from dropping nukes on japan, killing half of Vietnam, etc.
07:41 < sauvin> Foxfir3_, this isn't the venue for that kind of discussion.
07:42 < JimBuntu> Psi-Jack, who is your creator? Did they not require you to take maintenance time?
07:42 < Foxfir3_> sauvin: It is. because Its a question of what is acceptable, when downloading a free open source linux distro.
07:42 < pnbeast> Foxfir3_, sounds like you better stick with Debian.  I heard that's not from a company.
07:43 < cheapie> something something Software in the Public Interest, Inc.
07:44 < Foxfir3_> pnbeast: okay. thanks. I get the picture. Fedora is under Redhat, so they have to agree to US 'peacekeeping' politics. while Arch and Debian isnt companies. That settles it.
07:44 < pnbeast> I'm glad Danish companies can ignore Danish law as their morality dictates.
07:45 < acln> Hello. Is the buffer size of a pipe fixed for its lifetime? If it's not, what are the circumstances under which the kernel may decide to grow / shrink it?
07:45 < Foxfir3_> pnbeast: that was a good one :D
07:45 < blackflag_bfp> does anyone else is an i3+xfce setup like Psi-Jack
07:46 < Foxfir3_> blackflag_bfp: I run i3em with xfce as the sidewagon. Very good setup.
07:48 < Foxfir3_> blackflag_bfp: what is the problem?
07:49 < Psi-Jack> JimBuntu: I was brought to life by the galactic combine of time and space.
07:50 < JimBuntu> Psi-Jack, Ah, father time and mother space... so nurturing.
07:50 < Psi-Jack> heh
07:51 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: You could easily, of course, make a systemd timer and borg service associated with it to handle it. ;)
07:54 < Psi-Jack> I'm actually just starting watching the new Lost In Space series that netflix released yesterday.
07:54 < Foxfir3_> pnbeast: guess you are right. Debian is the more stable solution then. And Ubuntu has a history of unethical behavior. Arch is more demanding in terms of hours. well.. I can see how strange this looks, but I really do have something against the USA. Being bulgarian, you understand.
07:55 < Psi-Jack> I'm American, in the USA. And I have nothing against Bulgarians.
07:56 < V7> Hey all
07:56 < Foxfir3_> Psi-Jack: you are on IRC discussing Linux. Which makes you a prisoner in the US :D
07:56 < alexey-nemovff> hi folks
07:56  * JimBuntu is unsure where the anti-American concept comes from for Bulgarians... this must be part of the issue.
07:56 < Psi-Jack> ...
07:56 < sauvin> Foxfir3_, this isn't the venue for that kind of discussion. I won't say it again.
07:56 < Foxfir3_> Bulgaria didnt mess up the world. Thats the main difference.
07:56 < V7> How to count files with sftp in bash and update a file in remote directory with a number of files with 1 connection ?
07:57 < JimBuntu> V7... with one connection?! I am sorry that I don't think I can help with that, will watch to learn though.
07:57 < Psi-Jack> I'd strongly suggest you behave yourself, Foxfir3_. Such attitudes are highly frowned upon.
07:58 < Foxfir3_> Psi-Jack: okay. sorry. I will.
07:58 < Psi-Jack> Much appreciated
07:58 < V7> So, it's possible with 2 connections. For example, count=$(echo ls -l /my/directory/ | sftp server | grep -v '^sftp' | wc -l) and then echo $count > /tmp/count and then just upload this file
07:59 < V7> Although, this will ask for two connections to server
07:59 < V7> One for count, one for upload
07:59 < V7> Is it possible to get an output from sftp while it's connected ?
07:59 < Psi-Jack> Why even use sftp at all?
08:00 < V7> Psi-Jack: Hm. Any idea ?
08:00 < V7> I thought, it's possible with sftp ... isn't it ?
08:00 < Psi-Jack> sftp us just a limited subsystem of ssh.
08:01 < blackflag_bfp> Foxfir3_: wanted to check it out and was asking Psi-Jack or anyone using it what documentation they utilized when setting it up.
08:01 < V7> Yup, but it's doing only forwhat it was created
08:01 < blackflag_bfp> I see Mr. Psi-Jack is on now
08:01 < V7> s/forwhat/what for
08:02 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: http://feeblenerd.blogspot.com/2015/11/pretty-i3-with-xfce.html
08:02 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: Thank you good sir!
08:02 < V7> Psi-Jack: Also, I've tried to search and there're sftps https://www.google.ru/search?q=linux+sftp+client+command+line&oq=linux+sftp+client+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.4240j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
08:04 < V7> Also a query "linux sftp alternative command line" didn't give any good result
08:05 < Psi-Jack> V7: What is it you are /actually/ trying to do, surrounding environment relating to the problem, etc.
08:06 < V7> Already told
08:06 < Psi-Jack> Good luck.
08:06 < V7> Just update a file remotely with file count in other directory
08:09 < sauvin> Let me put it this way: "Huh!?"
08:10 < Psi-Jack> ssh server "echo $(ls -1 /my/directory | wc -l) > somefile.txt"
08:10 < Hdphn> is arch suitable as main OS
08:10 < Psi-Jack> Seems pretty silly though...
08:10 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: No.
08:10 < Hdphn> or some other distro would be better
08:10 < V7> Psi-Jack: I need to get count locally too
08:10 < Hdphn> Psi-Jack: why not?
08:10 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: It's bleeding edge.
08:11 < Psi-Jack> It's unstable, it's unreliable, it's constantly changing, it's not user friendly, etc.
08:11 < Hdphn> I see
08:11 < Hdphn> what would you recommend as main OS Psi-Jack
08:11 < V7> Psi-Jack: This won't save it to a variable, but just execute all stuff remotely
08:11 < Hdphn> if not ach
08:11 < Hdphn> arch*
08:11 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: Fedora, CentOS, openSUSE, or Debian
08:11 < Hdphn> the only reason I am inclined on arch over others is AUR repo
08:11 < Hdphn> and blackarch repo
08:11 < Hdphn> every damn package is there
08:12 < sauvin> What's special ab out aur repo?
08:12 < V7> Hdphn: Manjaro is AUR too, isn't it ?
08:12 < Psi-Jack> AUR isn't a repo, per-se.
08:12 < Psi-Jack> Manjaro is a security nightmare.
08:12 < Hdphn> for example if I install
08:12 < Hdphn> jetbrain
08:12 < Hdphn> from AUr
08:12 < Hdphn> i can upgrade it easily
08:12 < Psi-Jack> enter
08:12 < Psi-Jack> enter
08:12 < Hdphn> but if I install it manually
08:12 < Hdphn> on
08:12 < Hdphn> ubuntu
08:12 < Psi-Jack> Stop hitting enter excessively.
08:12 < Hdphn> its pita
08:12 < Hdphn> to update
08:13 < V7> Hdphn: Please, use a sentences. Not a words.
08:13 < Hdphn> and ubuntu requires many packages to be either PPA or compiled
08:13 < Psi-Jack> Well, lost my interest to help any further.
08:14 < Hdphn> why would you put fedora at top. its also unstable and testing for RHEL
08:14 < Psi-Jack> Wrong.
08:14 < sauvin> It's *relatively* unstable when compared to centos or debian.
08:14 < Psi-Jack> Actually, its rather quite stable.
08:15 < Hdphn> its bleeding edge like arch
08:15 < sauvin> I said "relatively".
08:15 < Hdphn> and arch is unstable
08:15 < Psi-Jack> Even compared to Debian and CentOS.
08:15 < Psi-Jack> It's cutting edge, not bleeding edge.
08:15 < sauvin> I'll never use fedora again, but I'll only very rarely recommend against it.
08:16 < Hdphn> sauvin: what would you recommend and use currently? and happy with
08:16 < pnbeast> I used it once.  There were enough rough edges that I decided to stick with more tested things.  But, I've heard that it's changed a lot since then.
08:16 < sauvin> On my servers I use Debian. When I get a new computer, I tend to use ubuntu on it.
08:17 < Hdphn> ubuntu over fedora?
08:17 < Hdphn> :D
08:17 < Hdphn> pnbeast: what do you use then
08:17 < sauvin> Yes. Like I said, I'll never use fedora again. Ubuntu's never given me any trouble.
08:18 < Hdphn> sauvin: you using ubuntu as your main OS atm? 16.04 or 18.04?
08:18 < pnbeast> A shortish list of widely used Linux distributions and other *nix variants.
08:18 < sauvin> I've not grabbed 18.04 yet, still using 16.04.
08:18 < Hdphn> sauvin: you tried arch?
08:19 < sauvin> I can't even get the goddamn thing installed.
08:19 < Hdphn> lol
08:19 < Hdphn> pnbeast: main OS?
08:20 < Psi-Jack> 18.04 isn't released.
08:20 < pnbeast> Here, now?  This is an old CentOS 6 install.  I recommend using a few and testing their differences.
08:20 < Hdphn> do I need to wait for 18.05
08:20 < Hdphn> 18.04*
08:20 < Hdphn> or install 16.04 now
08:20 < Psi-Jack> Your choice.
08:21 < Psi-Jack> You can upgrade 16.04 to 18.04 when it's released.
08:21 < sauvin> I'm gonna keep using 16.04 and let 18.04 bake for a little bit before trying it.
08:21 < pnbeast> I recommend at least one BSD, too.  You can't know how broken the future is until you know how broken the past is.  Something like that...
08:21 < Hdphn> Psi-Jack: without issues?
08:21 < Psi-Jack> ^ Wise choice.
08:21 < Psi-Jack> I don't use, nor ever recommend Ubuntu.
08:21 < Hdphn> why
08:22 < Hdphn> you use arch bro. thats the troublesome distro
08:22 < Hdphn> lol
08:22 < azarus> pnbeast: how are BSDs "broken" from your view?
08:22 < Psi-Jack> They are a bane of existance to the entire linux community and need to be removed from the planet.
08:22 < Irukandji> Solus #1 :D
08:22 < pnbeast> I used an Ubuntu until I sick to death of all the docs saying "to do <X>, click on <some stupid picture of a button> on <some stupid window that pops up three entries through a menu tree>".
08:23 < pnbeast> azarus, in different ways from how Linux is broken.
08:23 < azarus> pnbeast: list some?
08:24 < Psi-Jack> azarus: FreeBSD isn't Linux, so no need to. :)
08:24 < azarus> And FreeBSD sucks, so *shrugs*
08:24 < sauvin> I think this is where I part company with most Ubuntu users. I don't use GUI a lot.
08:24 < pnbeast> Ancient package management schemes, ruthless devotion to ignoring new things until half their userbase demands it, lack of hardware support...  Is three enough?
08:25 < Psi-Jack> pnbeast: And of course, removing things because, well, they don't want to make it better.
08:25 < azarus> pnbeast: well, haven't found these flaws with OpenBSD, but eh.
08:25 < azarus> sounds awfully like FreeBSD
08:26 < pnbeast> Oh, yeah, OBSD is perfect, of course.  Glad you found it.
08:26 < azarus> Certainly not perfect.
08:26 < pnbeast> How'd you last patch your machine(s), azarus?
08:26 < azarus> bioctl, for example, is much inferior to Linux mdraid.
08:26 < azarus> pnbeast: syspatch(8)
08:27 < pnbeast> How long did it take them to adopt, what, WPA?  Was it not until it was broken, azarus?
08:28 < azarus> What are you talking about?
08:28 < Psi-Jack> And now WPA3 is around the corner, and of course the WiFi Alliance is "doing it wrong" all over again.
08:28 < azarus> WPA2 was supported when I started using it
08:28 < pnbeast> azarus, the years OBSD users waited for wireless encryption that wasn't *currently* broken...
08:28 < Psi-Jack> While TLS 1.3 is here, and they finally did is right!
08:29 < azarus> pnbeast: in fact, even 802.1X worked out of the box for me, while I was struggling with Linux. Might just be my incompetency tough.
08:30 < pnbeast> Anyway, maybe the flaws I find are not the flaws you find.  I can't seriously believe anyone finds an OS to be perfect for his/her uses, unless that person's a complete simp.
08:30 < azarus> Every OS has its flaws.
08:30 < pnbeast> And this is ##linux, not ##obsd_evangelism nor ##obsd_sucks.
08:31 < azarus> Okay then! I find RAID under Linux very handy.
08:31 < notmike> Slackware is the best Linux.
08:31 < pnbeast> I kind of like RAID, but I find backups are most handy.
08:31 < azarus> I make backups on the RAID array ;)
08:32 < pnbeast> I make multiple backups on separate disks, so I guess you could say I use JBOD, sure.
08:32 < azarus> Only thing I dislike about Linux mdraid is the time it takes to resync. I waited for more than 24 hours :/
08:33 < pnbeast> Just buy really small SSDs.  I bet it'll fix that problem.
08:33 < azarus> Totally. SSDs in a RAID is a great idea.
08:37 < velix> Is it possible to extent an image containing a EXT4 FS, which has been creating using truncate?
08:37 < velix> (sparse file)
08:37 < Psi-Jack> ext4 already has extents. :)
08:38 < velix> Psi-Jack: But I need to extent the image file somehow :)
08:38 < Psi-Jack> You mean extend?
08:38 < Psi-Jack> :)
08:38 < velix> Psi-Jack: actually, I could create a new one, copy anything and done.
08:39 < velix> Psi-Jack: sorry, I'm not native... but yeah: extend.
08:39 < Psi-Jack> Hehe, just copy the file.
08:39 < velix> Psi-Jack: actually 1,2 million small files inside :(
08:39 < Psi-Jack> Copy the image file itself.
08:39 < velix> Psi-Jack: but how to resize it then?
08:39 < Psi-Jack> The copy will not, by default, be sparse.
08:40 < pnbeast> But if you cat enough 0s onto the end of it, it will be.
08:41 < velix> ah, like dd if=/dev/zero count=102400 >> imagefile ?
08:41 < velix> and then resize2fs ?
08:41 < Psi-Jack> No, just simply cp.
08:42 < velix> Psi-Jack: but how do I resize the "container" image?
08:42 < Psi-Jack> Or do you really mean to grow the disk image to allow more contents?
08:42 < velix> Psi-Jack: I want to make it bigger than now.
08:42 < velix> Yes!
08:42 < Psi-Jack> Words. They're important. :)
08:43 < Psi-Jack> What kind of disk image is it? qcow2? raw?
08:43 < velix> Psi-Jack: raw (sparse) create by dd
08:43 < velix> no, sorry.
08:43 < velix> truncate -s 20G "$img"
08:43 < velix> Actually, I really can create a new one and copy the files...
08:44 < velix> That might be the most secure way anyway.
08:44 < Psi-Jack> What's using this disk image?
08:44 < Psi-Jack> qemu? xen?
08:44 < velix> Psi-Jack: have enough inodes to handle 2 million damn small falls
08:44 < velix> files*
08:44 < velix> I created it after talking to people in here.
08:45 < velix> It's working great and doesn't harm my active system.
08:45 < velix> Psi-Jack: files are already copied ;)
08:46 < Psi-Jack> Umm, okay.
08:46 < velix> Psi-Jack: it's the most secure way.
08:46 < velix> Better than resizing FS
08:46 < rypervenche> velix: I still don't understand what you're using this file for.
08:46 < velix> even if ext4 does this pretty secure.
08:46 < Psi-Jack> qemu-img could resize it.
08:46 < velix> rypervenche: I'm storing tons over tons of damn small files in there.
08:47 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, rypervenche, exactly.
08:47 < velix> rypervenche: damn small files kill your inodes.
08:47 < Psi-Jack> ...
08:47 < rypervenche> velix: How are you accessing this? Mounting it as a loop device or using something else to access the file system?
08:47 < Psi-Jack> heh. Sure, they use up inodes, but with proper planning...
08:47 < velix> rypervenche: loop device, yeah.
08:47 < velix> Psi-Jack: But why? That's a simple and portable way.
08:48 < velix> I don't need to mess with my current system.
08:48 < HobbyLobby> Perhaps, I can offer my two cents?
08:48 < rypervenche> Yeah, I would just use a directory for that. Not sure what benefit you're getting by putting them all in an image.
08:49 < velix> rypervenche: because it will use up your inodes.
08:50 < rypervenche> Hmmm.
08:50 < Psi-Jack> I'd be curious what a `df -i` looks like on the two involved filesystems.
08:50 < velix> rypervenche: I have been run out of inodes last time... and this was a quick solution.
08:51 < velix> Psi-Jack: https://bpaste.net/show/0c999d39970e
08:52 < V7> Is it possible to get a last directory from remote with sftp ?
08:52 < V7> last modified
08:52 < Psi-Jack> 33728156 - 414662 - 1174821 - 59303 = 32079370
08:52 < Psi-Jack> Plenty....
08:53 < Psi-Jack> And that's all loopX devices combined, compared against sda1
08:53 < velix> Psi-Jack: Thone loopX devices are just tempoery, there's one only.
08:53 < Psi-Jack> Even better.
08:54 < Psi-Jack> That means you still have plenty more. :p
08:54 < velix> Psi-Jack: I've used 1174821 already for the small files.
08:54 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. I see that. And you still have over 32k inodes to work with..
08:54 < velix> Wait what? Why do they compare against sda1?
08:54 < rypervenche> V7: ls -lahtr
08:55 < V7> rypervenche: this's not the solution. It just lists last modified diretocries
08:55 < V7> The main thing is to gather the last modified directory
08:55 < V7> I.e. using bash
08:55 < alexey-nemovff> Hdphn: Arch is pretty stable
08:55 < rypervenche> V7: It also lists files. The last one on the bottom.
08:55 < V7> With one connection
08:55 < rypervenche> V7: But you said over SFTP.
08:55 < V7> rypervenche: yup
08:55 < Hdphn> alexey-nemovff: which DE?
08:56 < Hdphn> you rockin
08:57 < alexey-nemovff> Hdphn: with main repos + AUR you're covered and you'll forget downloading .deb files..
08:57 < Hdphn> yea thats the best thing
08:57 < rypervenche> V7: I guess I don't understand what you're wanting. That ls command will show you the directories in order of mtime. Is that not what you wanted?
08:57 < Hdphn> about arch
08:57 < Hdphn> alexey-nemovff: you using arch as main OS?
08:58 < V7> rypervenche: Already told that this just lists files with time modified
08:58 < alexey-nemovff> Hdphn: used to.. I liked it a lot.. about the DE I just prefer WMs
08:58 < V7> This won't copy anything from rather remote or local
08:58 < Hdphn> alexey-nemovff: what do you do now
08:58 < Hdphn> windows 10? or macOS
08:59 < Hdphn> both are rock solid choices
08:59 < azarus> ... "both are solid choices"
08:59 < Hdphn> with WSL
08:59 < Hdphn> you dont even need linux anymore
08:59 < Hdphn> lol
08:59 < azarus> cygwin is better
09:00 < alexey-nemovff> I just quit using Arch due to systemd
09:00 < rypervenche> V7: Sorry, I'm not understanding what you're trying to do.
09:00 < Hdphn> alexey-nemovff: you on gentoo now?
09:00 < blaztek> V7 can you use ssh and scp instead?
09:01 < alexey-nemovff> Hdphn: no, I'm not that patient
09:01 < Hdphn> alexey-nemovff: haha then tell me
09:01 < Hdphn> what do you use
09:01 < alexey-nemovff> Void
09:01 < rypervenche> Void Linux is a nice...yep.
09:01 < Hdphn> lacks packages
09:01 < Hdphn> :( :(
09:01 < rypervenche> nice replacement for Arch, is what I was going to say :P
09:01 < alexey-nemovff> xD
09:01 < azarus> yep, musl is nice
09:02 < Hdphn> no AUR either
09:02 < Hdphn> would rather use ubuntu :P
09:02 < azarus> AUR is great for one thing
09:02 < azarus> proprietary software
09:02 < alexey-nemovff> I don't use a lot.. all the ones I need are there.. for the others you can make request on github
09:02 < Hdphn> alexey-nemovff: are you happy on void or wanna return back to arch
09:03 < alexey-nemovff> nope.. I won't and don't wanna use any distro containing systemd
09:04 < Hdphn> my current desktop : https://i.redd.it/dd2k3gneemr01.png
09:05 < rypervenche> Hdphn: What WM is that?
09:05 < alexey-nemovff> Hdphn: and I'm really happy with Void
09:05 < Hdphn> rypervenche: subtle
09:06 < alexey-nemovff> subtle on gentoo
09:06 < Hdphn> alexey-nemovff: lack of packages is whats keeping me from going towards void
09:06 < Hdphn> yup
09:06 < alexey-nemovff> haven't heard about subtle wm
09:06 < Hdphn> its a better i3 gaps
09:06 < Hdphn> :)
09:07 < alexey-nemovff> can you list/mention the ones that aren't in the repos?
09:07 < alexey-nemovff> ahh
09:08 < alexey-nemovff> or at least some of them
09:09 < Hdphn> for example
09:09 < Hdphn> atom
09:09 < Hdphn> jetbrains software
09:09 < Hdphn> etc.
09:09 < Hdphn> all of it
09:09 < Hdphn> want it in fingertips
09:09 < Hdphn> arch has it
09:09 < alexey-nemovff> Hdphn: if you are using gentoo why do you wanna move?
09:09 < Psi-Jack> Stop excessively hitting enter, Hdphn ...
09:10 < Hdphn> alexey-nemovff: gentoo is on desktop.
09:10 < Hdphn> not laptop. laptop cant handle gentoo lol
09:10 < Hdphn> will switch from gentoo to arch but stability is where gentoo is at
09:10 < alexey-nemovff> ohh I got it
09:10  * sauvin splutters
09:10 < Hdphn> let me show you my arch laptop setup
09:11 < Hdphn> I dont even use DE
09:11 < alexey-nemovff> what about Slackware?
09:11 < Hdphn> alexey-nemovff: https://i.redd.it/29gpudrvt8r01.png
09:11 < Hdphn> its intel pentium
09:11 < Hdphn> gentoo wont like it
09:11 < Hdphn> :P
09:12 < alexey-nemovff> or you can even use Calculate Linux.. based in gentoo if I'm not mistaken
09:12 < ice9> i want to add missing screen resolution under xorg.conf.d, what should be the number an name of the file?
09:12 < Hdphn> tried sabayon, didnt like it
09:12 < Hdphn> sabayon to gentoo is what ubuntu to debian is
09:12 < Hdphn> :P
09:13 < rypervenche> Psi-Jack: He sure took that comment to heart.
09:13 < alexey-nemovff> love bspwm
09:13 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, seems like he's just doing it more. :p
09:13 < alexey-nemovff> the one I use
09:13 < sauvin> Not for much longer, I think.
09:15 < alexey-nemovff> Hdphn: you can even use Calculate Linux.. based in gentoo if I'm not mistaken
09:15 < alexey-nemovff> they said good thinks about it
09:19  * Psi-Jack sleeps.
09:25 < nelder> hi all, i try configure grub for linux+window, anybody can looks where trouble is -> there is description file  https://ptpb.pw/EJSa
09:29 < alexey-nemovff> nelder: distro?
09:30 < velix> Psi-Jack: I don't know what has happenend, but suddenly, df -i says 100% in use.
09:31 < velix> Psi-Jack: Ah, back to normal.
09:32 < velix> Psi-Jack: When unmounting all loops, my inodes on sda1 are NOT changed.
09:33 < velix> Hehe, I like some linux tools. "mount: : failed to setup loop device: Success"
09:33 < nelder> alexey-nemovff: linux gentoo
09:35 < Hdphn> since kali is not suitable for main OS
09:35 < Hdphn> is parrotOS suitable?
09:37 < alexey-nemovff> velix: lol
09:38 < alexey-nemovff> Hdphn: I bet they're similar in that aspect tho
09:38 < Hdphn> aha
09:38 < Hdphn> so ubuntu it is
09:39 < alexey-nemovff> :/
09:41 < AfonsoHenriques> hello m8s, I need tips into task managing applications. I'm so goddamn busy that I just cant figure out how to order what I need to do in paper (without crappying the notebook foil with underlined streches)
09:42 < halfclip> Trello
09:42 < AfonsoHenriques> nice, gonna try it now
09:42 < halfclip> Its good
09:43 < JimBuntu> Trello is OK, Jira is better...
09:43 < halfclip> Jira is way to complex for a todo list
09:44 < JimBuntu> halfclip, opinions differ, and that's OK
09:44 < AfonsoHenriques> I equally thank you guys for help me. Will try both.
09:44 < halfclip> Trello is fine for a single person. If you jave a team of 5+ then yeah maybe i would pay for JIRA
09:44 < halfclip> JIRA is better i agree. Bit overkill.
09:45 < AfonsoHenriques> wait, pay? I'm a poor person alright
09:45 < halfclip> And JIRA co$t money
09:45 < JimBuntu> halfclip,  Half the fun with Jira, is that each week you get to create Jira tickets for improvements to Jira itself!
09:45 < halfclip> Lol
09:45 < blackflag_bfp> any positive or negative feedback regarding clonezilla?
09:45 < JimBuntu> AfonsoHenriques, then stick to Trello
09:46 < AfonsoHenriques> What about "task coach"? Anyone?
09:46 < AfonsoHenriques> OK
09:46 < halfclip> I use jira every day at my job. I hate it
09:46 < JimBuntu> halfclip, see my opinion comment. I too use Jira every day and love it.
09:47 < halfclip> If it was free, i would like it
09:47 < halfclip> But the fact that you have to pay for something that doeant work half the time ahits me to tears. Its really frustrating
09:48 < JimBuntu> Jira, like any worthwhile tool requires the user to configure/customize it. Once you get it set up, it can be great... defaults are a whole different topic though, I agree that far.
09:48 < Dr_Ciphers> hello! Anyone passed the LFCS exam recently?
09:49 < JimBuntu> Jira doesn't work half the time?! I'm sure not going to argue using what you prefer when in the ##linux channel, but I would like to hear more
09:49 < AfonsoHenriques> In my case, just to mention, I also don't have much time. I'll try to stick with trello.
09:50 < JimBuntu> AfonsoHenriques, if Trello is all you need, and it works well, use it. I for one am very happy to hear you found something that fits your needs
09:50 < AfonsoHenriques> ("don't have much time" = I'm late in every way anything you can imagine)
09:51 < JimBuntu> AfonsoHenriques, sounds like you need a new schedule program more, lol. That's OK, we all could use better time management I suppose.
09:52 < AfonsoHenriques> Oh, and I'm, well, kinda shy (I live in a society that gratitude is not a value; reading that someone just is happy to help... I dunno how to say).
09:52 < AfonsoHenriques> Very very thanks, JimBuntu.
09:53 < JimBuntu> Welcome to IRC AfonsoHenriques . This is a global culture. All are welcome, the helpful more than the rest ;-D
09:53 < JimBuntu> and you are very welcome AfonsoHenriques. The only thing I ask, is that you give a little back in some way. It's only nice.
09:55 < AfonsoHenriques> You mean, to contribute helping others as I can help? If so, man, freenode is my heaven server now.
09:55 < velix> I really LOVE midnight commander in Linux.
09:56 < JimBuntu> AfroThundr, yeah, however you can help, what may seem like  something small to you could make a big difference for someone else. It's obviously not a requirement, see /topic  but it's a good thing as then everyone benefits
09:56 < paddy|> +1 JimBuntu
09:57 < JimBuntu> velix, I don't think I have seen that program in ages... going to look at install options now though!
09:57 < velix> JimBuntu: it looks like 1994 ;)
09:57 < JimBuntu> velix, I think 1994 was a good year... was that the first Mac? or was it still a Lisa?
09:58 < velix> JimBuntu: it was the year of Eurodace music ;)
09:58 < halfclip> JimBuntu, horses for courses. Trello is suited for small teams or een a single person. JIRA is designed for collaboration of large teams and works on a much larger scale. It has lots of features and plugins. Its great. But you cant compare the two. Sometimes you need to choose the right tool for the job
09:58 < velix> Eurodance*
09:58 < halfclip> I wont use a chainsaw to cut my steak, would you?
09:58 < JimBuntu> halfclip, depends on if I am cutting the steak from the cow I suppose... still probably not though
09:59 < JimBuntu> FWIW: I am not aware of chainsaws being sued outside of lumberjacking type applications
10:00 < JimBuntu> BTW: The above is an example of tendons responding at different rates than they uses to and not dyslexia
10:01 < AfonsoHenriques> JimBuntu, 100% agree. For me... I have no problem to give my best in order to help/share knowledge. Just "come as you are" -- so then we will always find a solution.
10:02 < AfonsoHenriques> (just abstract my poor English, not a native speaker and kinda sleep right now hahaha)
10:02 < JimBuntu> AfonsoHenriques, then I welcome you with open arms, a warm hearth and a full plate of food!
10:03 < AfonsoHenriques> oh yeah!
10:03 < halfclip> I guess someone like elon musk might use jira to manage his breakfast schedule
10:04 < halfclip> Or donald trump might use it to manage his hair?
10:04 < JimBuntu> halfclip, I doubt Jira is good enough for that, he is way too busy buying up successful companies and putting his name on them, pretending he started them, lol
10:05 < halfclip> Lol
10:05 < JimBuntu> halfclip, seriously, name 1 company that Elon started, please
10:05 < halfclip> Yeah and claiming "his" idea is "new"
10:05 < JimBuntu> That's a whole new discussion, but I agree entirely
10:06 < halfclip> He is all about execution, not innovation. Kind of like steve jobs
10:06 < JimBuntu> To make sure this is on-topic, I heard Elon loved Linux, anyone hear otherwise?
10:07 < JimBuntu> halfclip, Have you read the book :How to get JimBuntu started on a tangent", cause it seems like you did read it, X-D
10:07 < halfclip> But they will say something is innovative, people will believe it because it is marketed well, even though the technology behind such execution is 10years+ old
10:07 < forgon> I need to replace a few numbers in a binary file.
10:08 < JimBuntu> forgon, `man sed`
10:08 < forgon> JimBuntu: sed can handle binary files easily?
10:08 < azarus> sed can handle data fine
10:08 < halfclip> Sed is the future, past and present
10:09 < JimBuntu> Need I say more?
10:09 < JimBuntu> Insert "This is Linux!" meme
10:10 < halfclip> When i get porridge for breakfast, and i really wanted bacon, i just run sed
10:11 < JimBuntu> lol halfclip it makes everything else OK
10:11 < forgon> Is awk fine too, with binary data?
10:11 < jimm> sed is like ed, fred said, beds without heads are mandated by the feds
10:11 < halfclip> ^ exactly
10:11 < JimBuntu> dayum, even jimm replied
10:12 < V7> blaztek: What do you mean ?
10:15 < blaztek> V7: scp -r $( ssh hostname ls -lahtr ) .
10:17 < velix> It's official: I'm stupid :D
10:17 < velix> I got angry because "umoumt" didn't work.
10:17 < blaztek> V7 no....you’d need a bash script to do it that way. I screwed up scp’s syntax...
10:19 < nai> V7: have you looking into port forwarding? i think what you're looking for is ssh -L <local-port>:localhost:<remote-port> <your-command>; scp -P <remote-port> <local-file> <remote-destination>
10:19 < nai> something like that
10:19 < nai> s/looking/looked/ for fuck's sake
10:22 < nai> or just do everything in sftp
10:22 < blaztek> V7: Something more like https://paste.linux.community/view/86301d34
10:23 < blaztek> Instead of using sftp
10:24 < blaztek> nai: how would you automate that in sftp?  I’m asking because I don’t know
10:25 < nai> doesn't sftp allow you to run shell commands? if so that's pretty simple
10:26 < halfclip> If all scp fail, use rsync
10:26 < blaztek> nai: I have no idea. If so, you’re right.
10:26 < nai> hm, doesn't seem so actually
10:26 < nai> you can run commands on your local shell, but not on a remote shell
10:26 < nai> halfclip: how is rsync relevant here?
10:27 < nai> also blaztek that snippet does exactly what V7 wanted to avoid
10:27 < halfclip> Arent you recursively copying files from a renote server??
10:27 < blaztek> Directories
10:27 < notmike> I heard scp isn't preferred
10:28 < halfclip> Ok, well rsync has an option for that, it has lots of options compared to scp. Just saying
10:28 < blaztek> I was afraid of that
10:30 < halfclip> You can of course write a script to do what you want rsync to do in a single command
10:30 < nai> no, what V7 wants to do is run a command on the remote server, and upload a local folder to the remote server based on the output of that command, with only opening one ssh/sftp connection
10:30 < nai> rsync is out of topic here
10:30 < stevendale> Hi o/
10:30 < nai> unless it can run shell commands on the remote server and upload files based on that, which i doubt
10:32 < saltystew> what about ansible
10:32 < saltystew> seems like that'd work
10:32 < halfclip> Quoted from manpage: USING RSYNC-DAEMON FEATURES VIA A REMOTE-SHELL CONNECTION
10:33 < shawn|C2Duo> howdy
10:34 < shawn|C2Duo> anyone here know of an FFMpeg AAC Encoder for linux?
10:34 < halfclip> What i meant was run a rsync on the remote host via ssh. Then u can pipe whatever command
10:34 < shawn|C2Duo> debian package
10:34 < halfclip> Or something
10:34 < halfclip> Maybe it will help
10:34 < teodorg> well, he can do both (issuing a command on the remoe sever and uploading a local folder to it) with scp. Where is the issue ?
10:35 < blaztek> nai: I can only do something like that with ssh and scp/sftp...sorry...even doing like you said
10:36 < jimm> nai, well, rsync is a file copier
10:37 < blaztek> The ssh runs the command on the server and the scp -r localdir host:remotedir works
10:38 < blaztek> I mean in a proper shell script, I mean
10:39 < halfclip> Write a script, scp it and execute it
10:39 < halfclip> Over ssh?
10:39 < blaztek> You can do that too
10:40 < blaztek> ssh remote ls works
10:40 < blaztek> So would a shell script
10:41 < nai> halfclip: your solution implies opening an ssh connection from local to remote, then a rsync connection from remote to local
10:41 < nai> that's 2 connections
10:41 < nai> i think the easiest solution here is to go with port forwarding, with something along the lines of what i suggested earlier
10:41 < nai> sftp doesn't seem to support complex operations
10:41 < nai> nice observation skills jimm
10:41 < nai> of course it works, the whole question is how to do it with only one connection
10:41 < blaztek> halfclip: but I was meaning running the script from the localhost
10:41 < halfclip> If ls is your command, run ssh user@example.com ls -eaf
10:41 < halfclip> Then pipe the output to scp
10:42 < blaztek> nai: I know. That’s the only way I know how to do it.
10:42 < nai> yes, so you're not helping with the question
10:42 < blaztek> I know
10:43 < blaztek> I’ll stop
10:44 < halfclip> I mean, you could write a script to do whatever, run it on a remote host via ssh then get that host to push files back with scp
10:45 < teodorg> well, another option is to have some sort of daemon or a cron script, that periodically looks for new scripts in some specific folder and runs them.
10:46 < teodorg> so... you just upload a script via scp to some specific remote folder and the remote server will detect the presence of a new script in that folder and will run it. Simple as that.
10:46 < nai> ...how does that answer the question
10:49 < nai> i'm guessing you guys didn't even read V7's original question
10:49 < teodorg> nai: me - for sure. What was it ?
10:50 < nai> they want to run a command on the remote host (for example, count some files), and then use the result of that command to upload a certain file or folder from the local host to the remote host
10:50 < nai> the question is, how to do that using only one (ssh or sftp or whatever) connection
10:51 < nai> instead of opening an ssh connection to run a command, then opening another scp/rsync connection to upload the files
10:51 < teodorg> nai: pretty easy. No need even for sftp. as scp works via ssh.
10:51 < JimBuntu> V7, please restate your request, some of us have not been paying attention
10:51 < nai> teodorg: please enlighten us
10:51 < teodorg> Once again: 1. he uploads a script from host A to hos B via scp (ssh secure copy, no need of sftp).
10:52 < nai> that's one connection
10:52 < teodorg> 2. then he either runs that script via ssh on the remote host or he has some daemon or cron'ed script there which scans a specific folder for new scripts.
10:53 < teodorg> Once a new script appears in that folder - the "daemon" runs it.
10:53 < nai> oh ok i see what you mean. you want to automate entirely the process of running that command and uploading files on the server side
10:53 < teodorg> 3. the script is executed and puts its output in a specific location
10:53 < avis-> i need a no root escalaton security bug fix but and included some no rootkits and malwares with it.  not bad.  i did it in a clamav signatiure.  the fix for 2.4 dirty cow bug fixes.  clamav
10:53 < avis-> security hole fix.  get root while linux
10:53 < teodorg> 4. again via scp you download the output from host B to host A.
10:54 < teodorg> nai: no, it is just an option.
10:55 < teodorg> this can be "scripted" in some 20min. I would not mind doing it for free, but no time today.
10:55 < avis-> north korea can process big number solves, mine and others.  or at least lead them the right way
10:55 < nai> teodorg: you didn't understand the question.
10:55 < ice9> anyway to run an app using the GPU instead?
10:56 < teodorg> nai: which part of it did I miss ?
10:56 < poutine> ice9, Did you have an earlier part to that question? You want to run an app on a GPU?
10:57 < nai> teodorg: the whole "uploading files based on the output of the command" part
10:57 < poutine> most interactions with GPUs are handled through libraries like opengl, cuda, opencl etc, it's not a general computing unit you just run apps on
10:57 < teodorg> nai: nope I did not. As I said - he will download back the output from the command part and based on it he will run new commands remotely via ssh.
10:58 < nai> so then you must have missed the "only one connection" part of the question
10:59 < teodorg> nai: there is only one connection - via scp (ssh).
10:59 < teodorg> Unless under "only one connection" the guy really means "one connection" (one pass, one socket opened).
11:00 < nai> well yeah, that's what it means
11:00 < nai> only connect once
11:00 < teodorg> then he needs to write his own daemon app/script which listens to a specific port.
11:00 < teodorg> and does all that.
11:00 < nai> or use ssh's port forwarding
11:01 < teodorg> any logical reason behind this requirement - only one connection ?
11:01 < teodorg> because I can't come up with any in my mind.
11:02 < nai> i really don't know lol, it would help if V7 were here to explain further
11:02 < nai> maybe on a limited network, for speed
11:02 < teodorg> nai: how much speed / bandwidth needs ssh in your opinion? :)
11:03 < teodorg> it will run nicely even on a 64Kbps link
11:03 < teodorg> anyhow.
11:03 < nai> uh, no?
11:03 < nai> or i don't get what you mean
11:04 < nai> but ssh on my shitty wireless network is really slow
11:04 < teodorg> nai: that is not due to speed, but due to link instability (packet losses and resends).
11:04 < nai> oh yeah that makes sense
11:04 < nai> so i'd rephrase it as "maybe on an unstable network"
11:04 < teodorg> I have been working with Linux/UNIX since 1996. Well, ssh and telnet over a 9600bps dialup were kind of slow
11:05 < teodorg> but trust me, even on a 64Kbps network ssh runs smoothly.
11:05 < nai> hah nice
11:05 < nai> ok, noted
11:05 < nai> i mean my wifi is under 64 kbps for that matter, due to instability
11:06 < teodorg> nai: can't be.
11:06 < teodorg> even on a 802.11b you have 1Mbps
11:08 < nai> the effective speed displayed by say, curl when downloading files is around 10 Kbps when i'm standing far from the router (and behind a repeater), and reaches up to 1Mbps when close
11:08 < nai> that's what i meant
11:08 < teodorg> you can have even a 50Mbps link, but if it is unstable (like on noisy and oversaturated wireless channels or for some other reason), your will have hard time with ssh and any other interactive apps.
11:08 < teodorg> nai: which country is that ?
11:10 < nai> new zealand, but i don't think the country matters?
11:10 < teodorg> nai: it does, a lot. Due to channel regulations, channel oversaturation, landscape and so on.
11:11 < nai> landscape? i don't get it
11:12 < nai> we're talking about the link between a router and a computer in one house
11:12 < teodorg> nai: aaah. I thought the link between you and your ISP is a wireless one.
11:12 < nai> oh no! it's broadband
11:12 < teodorg> ok, so you are wi-fi from your PC/laptop to your router.
11:12 < nai> sorry if i was unclear
11:12 < teodorg> and then? xDSL / FTTH ?
11:13 < stevendale> o/
11:13 < stevendale> I am proud to announce my migration to Debian stable o/
11:13 < nai> probably ADSL or xDSL
11:13 < teodorg> nai: well, then fix your wifi settings and finish with that story. Why do you bear that ?
11:14 < nai> bear what?
11:14 < teodorg> nai: I used to install and configure microwave links at 50-80km over the sea. Running 50-100Mbps. That is where the landscape matters. The wave refraction that happens due to the sea matters a lot.
11:14 < teodorg> nai: the slow and unstable ssh. And the 10Kbps downloads.
11:15 < nai> oh, well i don't really know how to fix it
11:15 < nai> i mean if i want speed i just go next to the router
11:15 < teodorg> :)
11:16 < nai> but it's a shared flat with quite a few people so lots of interference
11:16 < teodorg> that ain't wireless then :)   get a cable.
11:16 < nai> and the hardware (router) is probably not that great (old)
11:16 < teodorg> nai: what model is that ?
11:16 < nai> it's an Orcon, let me get the model
11:16 < teodorg> never heard of it.
11:17 < nai> NZ brand
11:17 < nai> model is "Genius" apparently
11:17 < nai> oh and the manufacturer is iinet
11:18 < teodorg> no, that is your ISP
11:18 < teodorg> orcon genius is the brand
11:18 < notmike> gas doesn't really come from dinosaurs
11:19 < V7> Hm. Interesting, really ..
11:19 < V7> Thank you nai, really
11:19 < nai> oh wait no, iinet also distributes those, but my ISP is Orcon.
11:19 < nai> np V7, it was an interesting question
11:20 < teodorg> nai: do they (the ISP) give you access to these ?
11:20 < nai> give me access? the router is in the house if that's what you're asking
11:21 < teodorg> nai: network access, to login inside and view/change settings.
11:21 < nai> V7: by the way, if you could tell us in more detail what you're actually trying to accomplish, that would be great. why does "only one connection" matter?
11:21 < nai> teodorg: oh yes.
11:22 < nai> i added a static IP for my devices in order to reduce the connection time
11:22 < V7> I'll try to make a script which could do this in two connections
11:22 < nai> (yes, dhcp used to fail like 15 times before finally getting an address)
11:23 < teodorg> :)
11:23 < nai> V7: that's probably better if you have no real reason to do otherwise.
11:24 < ice9> poutine, so the app must be written to support a GPU?
11:24 < jaggz> why does "cmd" run a program (a python script, found in a folder in $PATH), but "which cmd" doesn't show anything, and including cmd in a Makefile results in "command not found"
11:24 < nai> teodorg: anyway, thanks for the chat, i learned things :)
11:24 < JimBuntu> WSLD?
11:25 < jaggz> after typing that I just changed SHELL to bash, and the makefile works now.  But which doesn't
11:27 < teodorg> jaggz: does the cmd have an executable bit set ?
11:27 < BCMM> jaggz: what does `type cmd` show?
11:27 < jaggz> teodorg, yeah.. runs fine too in bash when just typed
11:28 < teodorg> jaggz: then, as long as it is inside the path, which shall detect it
11:28 < jaggz> BCMM, says it's hashed and shows the proper location of the binary (as /home/jaggz/.local/bin/foo)
11:28 < teodorg> teodorg: show the output from the which command. It shall show you which folders it digs in.
11:29 < jaggz> hrm?  no it shows nothing to me
11:29 < jaggz> (which shows nothing)
11:29 < teodorg> can't be
11:29 < teodorg> see
11:29 < teodorg> [root@mail bin]# which backup.py
11:29 < teodorg> --> /usr/bin/which: no backup.py in (/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/root/bin)
11:30 < teodorg> Another way is to trace/debug the app.
11:30 < nai> where is your backup.py located?
11:30 < teodorg> like this
11:30 < teodorg> strace which backup.py
11:30 < teodorg> see here...
11:30 < jaggz> my man which shows:   Debian    29 Jun 2016 WHICH(1)
11:30 < teodorg> stat("/usr/local/sbin/backup.py", 0x7ffc9a21e260) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
11:30 < teodorg> stat("/usr/local/bin/backup.py", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0600, st_size=2723, ...}) = 0
11:30 < teodorg> stat("/sbin/backup.py", 0x7ffc9a21e260) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
11:30 < jaggz> ooh.. lemme strace it
11:31 < teodorg> see... on the second line which found such a file, but since its mode bits do not show a 'x' set, it will merely skip it.
11:31 < jaggz> also.. why the hell is my kde notifier telling me it's getting activity in a konsole window every 15s or so.. that's an odd .. new one.
11:31 < jaggz> (neat.  konsole has ctrl-shift-a for "monitor activity")
11:32 < phre4k> ./easyrsa build-client-full clientname nopass gives me "Extra arguments given.\n rand: Use -help for summary.\n Easy-RSA error: Unknown cert type 'client'" → how do I resolve this?
11:32 < jaggz> ohhh.. which doesn't expand ~ in PATHs maybe
11:32 < MrElendig> jaggz: makefiles are not shellscripts
11:32 < jaggz> MrElendig, thank you
11:33 < blueinferno> I tried to install linux but now i am stuck in blue screen
11:33 < jaggz> I believe I've located the problem.  make also defaults to sh, which also must not be expanding ~ in PATHs
11:33 < MrElendig> jaggz: use the home env var instead
11:34 < MrElendig> jaggz: more that it doesn't have your shell env
11:34 < MrElendig> possibly
11:34 < jaggz> MrElendig, ooh.. $HOME works.. thanks a bunch :)
11:34 < jaggz> it "fixes" which too
11:35 < jaggz> (strace showed which looking in the proper dir.. which was ~/.local/bin and showed the not-found error still.. so that led to recognizing ~ as the problem)
11:36 < jaggz> I think I encountered a similar situation a couple weeks ago, but resolved it with the sh/bash swap instead of learning about $HOME.  This is not good of my brain.
11:37 < MrElendig> sidenote: take a look at meson
11:40 < skoup> good morning
11:40 < sponge`> Hello, I'm trying to learn how to use the command line. I'm using Linux Journey website. I'm trying to move/rename a directory over a different directory (I want to overwrite it), like it's explained here: https://linuxjourney.com/lesson/move-mv-command . So I'm using 'mv -i directory1 directory2', but the result is that directory1 is moved into directory2, and doesn't overwrite it. What am I missing?
11:41 < skoup> i have an assignment to install 'bum' boot-up manager, apt-get install bum, but it is not compatible with Ubuntu 17.10 it seems, what are my alternatives? thank you
11:45 < teodorg> skoup: yes, bum is not supported on Ubuntu 17 (afaik).
11:45 < SkunkyFone> sponge`: are you putting directory1 into directory2/ note the following /
11:48 < skoup> teodorg is there anything similar i could try perhaps
11:49 < sponge`> SkunkyFone: No, I'm using the same command 'mv -i directory1 directory2' without any /
11:50 < nostrora> Hi! i want to buy new laptop and i want to consider open source driver. so i don't want Nvidia i want to know if the driver of RX Vega M GL Graphics is good for linux ?
11:50 < MrElendig> nostrora: buggy as hell
11:50 < sponge`> SkunkyFone: I'm in my directory (/linuxjourney), where I have two directories (/linuxjourney/directory1 and /linuxjourney/directory2)
11:50 < nostrora> MrElendig: because is still new ?
11:51 < MrElendig> nostrora: no, because amd
11:51 < MrElendig> vega isn't exactly new
11:51 < nostrora> MrElendig: but RX Vega M GL Graphics isn't released right now. how do you know that ?
11:52 < MrElendig> nostrora: because 1. vega support is still buggy, the G serie apus are almost unuseable, and the usual amd bs where it takes a year to get useable support for anything they release
11:52 < sponge`> And I'm issuing this command from /linuxjourney (mv -i directory1 directory2). I don't get any prompt and the result is that directory1 is moved into directory2, so I end up with /linuxjourney/directory2/directory1
11:52 < MrElendig> nostrora: not that optimus is any better
11:53 < nostrora> MrElendig: ok thanks for answer :)
11:54 < MrElendig> nostrora: short story: laptop graphics is just terrible
11:54 < nostrora> MrElendig: intel graphics too ?
11:55 < MrElendig> yes
11:55 < MrElendig> and even more so when any hybrid setup is involved
11:55 < nostrora> MrElendig: why on Windows all this is getting cool and fast ? :(
11:55 < MrElendig> except it doesn't really
11:56 < MrElendig> optimus is buggy as heck on windows too, just slightly less so
11:56 < MrElendig> and amd drivers on windows are not exactly top quality either
11:57 < nostrora> MrElendig: well.. ^^ ok
11:57 < MrElendig> in one of their "bugfix" releases of catalyst they broke borderlands for almost a year
11:57 < MrElendig> as an example
11:58 < MrElendig> and as a more recent example: performance of vega is really inconsistent, and it is plain broken in some games
11:59 < nostrora> MrElendig: sad :/ i7-8705G is very good for me and i don't want nvidia
11:59 < MrElendig> I would look for real world experience and not buy untested
12:00 < nostrora> sure
12:00 < MrElendig> the new amd apu is interesting but it has three problems
12:00 < MrElendig> 1. buggy as hell drivers  2. some really strange power draw issues  3. no one sells them
12:01 < MrElendig> all three problems are interlinked with eachother
12:01 < nostrora> MrElendig: i've only found it in Dell XPS 15 and HP x360 spectre
12:02 < MrElendig> the amd apu or the intel/amd frankenchips?
12:03 < nostrora> MrElendig: frankenchips
12:07 < SkunkyFone> sponge`: try using directory1/ directory2 and see what you get
12:09 < nostrora> MrElendig: Do you know if on these frankenchips. we can select intel graphics or amd graphics on runtime ? intel when desktop use and amd on vulkan demands
12:09 < MrElendig> nostrora: hear conflicting info if you can use the intel igp at all or not
12:10 < nostrora> MrElendig: Just... -_- buy a chips that you cannot use.. bullshit
12:10 < revel> IS there any good quick way to resource-limit a process? Like, say, just run `resourcelimit $whatever`
12:11 < BCMM> nostrora: that happens *all the time* when buying CPUs
12:11 < revel> RAM and CPU-time wise.
12:11 < MrElendig> revel: cgroups
12:11 < nostrora> BCMM: you mean : software limited features ?
12:11 < BCMM> nostrora: not software, no
12:11 < revel> MrElendig: And how simple is that?
12:11 < BCMM> nostrora: different models of CPU are frequently made on the same line, and differentiated by having features selective disabled *after* the chip is made
12:11 < MrElendig> revel: depends on if your distro has a sane frontend to them or not
12:12 < BCMM> nostrora: it's cheaper than tooling up to produce a completely different model from scratch
12:12 < revel> MrElendig: Well, my kernel has cgroups compiled in. What would be a frontend to that?
12:12 < BCMM> nostrora: people are using CPUs with entire cores artificially disabled
12:13 < BCMM> on *some* of them, that's because those cores failed testing, but generally the demand for lower-spec versions exceeds the failure rate, so some are limited completely artificially
12:13 < MrElendig> revel: systemd, various distro inventions, just poking /sys by hand, cgroupsd/similar
12:14 < revel> Oh, wait, nice is probably enough.
12:14 < sponge`> SkunkyFone: mv -i directory1/ directory2     also moves directory1 into directory2, not overwritting it.
12:15 < SkunkyFone> sponge`: *shrug* you could just delete dir2 first :)
12:15 < sponge`> hehe
12:15 < BCMM> it makes sense that you can't just "overwrite" a directory
12:16 < BCMM> i mean, what would happen to the files inside it?
12:16 < GNU\colossus> revel, nice can't enforce absolute limits though, it will just regulate CPU usage relative to other (potential) consumers of that resource
12:16 < sponge`> Yeah, but I wanted to understand why the tutorial says that this command is for moving and renaming, when in fact it can't rename directories by overwriting
12:16 < revel> GNU\colossus: I know that, I mean that it's likely enough for my purposes.
12:16 < GNU\colossus> cgroups, on the other hand, can enforce absolute limits, even in the absence of other users of the limited resources
12:16 < MrElendig> and nice doesn't deal with anything that forks
12:16 < GNU\colossus> ok :)
12:17 < GNU\colossus> MrElendig, niceness is inherited by child processes
12:17 < MrElendig> with gotchas
12:17 < GNU\colossus>  $ nice; nice bash -c 'nice'
12:17 < GNU\colossus> 0
12:17 < GNU\colossus> 10
12:17 < BCMM> sponge`: taking it literally, they'd just be orphaned inodes - there's a reason you can't rmdir a non-empty directory
12:17 < BCMM> sponge`: at a low level, the process of deleting a directory really is "rm -r" - recursive removal. the files inside it have to be deleted *first*
12:18 < sponge`> so there's a error in the linuxjourney tutorial, when they say "Like cp, if you mv a file or directory it will overwrite anything in the same directory. So you can use the -i flag to prompt you before overwriting anything."?
12:18 < BCMM> and it's correct that that sort of action is out of scope for mv
12:18 < sponge`> It's not a bug of my shell
12:18 < BCMM> sponge`: yeah, that's wrong as written
12:19 < BCMM> sponge`: if you mv a_directory/* somewhere/, then you've overwriting "anything in the same directory". but that's not the same thing as mv a_directory somewhere
12:24 < sponge`> I see. Thanks BCMM and SkunkyFone
12:34 < ice9> i'm setting the DPI manually in xorg.conf but when I query about it, I get the default DPI not  the one I'm setting;  xrdb -query | grep dpi
12:34 < widp> Is there a file manager like ranger, but with a GUI
12:35 < widp> so stuff like drag and drop work well?
12:44 < V7> nai: Sorry, was afk
12:44 < V7> https://hastebin.com/nihudebofo.bash
12:44 < V7> So, it's possible to read a password and make this with two connections, but ..
12:45 < BCMM> widp: konsole (the kde terminal emulator) supports file drop. i don't know how it detects the directory, though - it would *probably* go to the parent shell's cwd rather than ranger's
12:47 < kurahaupo> V7: that script is an odd mix of Bashisms and posix minimalism. Which are you aiming for?
12:48 < widp> BCMM: I just figured out ranger has tabs
12:48 < widp> this is vastly better =)
12:49 < V7> kurahaupo: The first one
12:49 < V7> Btw, do you know how to make this with one connetion ?
12:50 < V7> There're scp, rsync, sftp, ssh
12:50 < V7> So, sftp makes this with two connection, but .. there should a possibility to make this one with only 1 conncetion
12:54 < jelly> make what?
12:58 < V7> jelly: Same thing whihc's in script above
12:58 < V7> which *
12:59 < V7> As you could notice this just copies a folder incrementally
12:59 < V7> But it makes two different connetions to a server
12:59 < V7> The main thing is to make the same, but with a use only one, though
13:01 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
13:07 < paddy|> hello BluesKaj
13:08 < BluesKaj> hi paddy|
13:09 < kurahaupo> V7: sounds like a coproc of sftp would do what you want
13:11 < BCMM> V7: so what's the actual objective of that script?
13:12 < kurahaupo> V7: grep -v -c will output the count of non matching lines. (( count = $( grep -vc ^sftp <<<"$out" ) - 3 ))
13:13 < V7> BCMM: The main idea is to get a quantity of files in remote directory and then push a directory from local to remote with an incremented name
13:14 < V7> kurahaupo: What dou mena about coprocessors ?
13:14 < kurahaupo> V7: if tf && (( count >= 0 )); then…
13:14 < BCMM> V7: so, like, discover that the remote directory has a foo42 in it, then transfer the new file to foo43?
13:15 < V7> kurahaupo: $count *
13:15 < V7> BCMM: Yup, but with a one connection
13:15 < kurahaupo> V7: don't use $ inside ((…))
13:15 < spare> you can use ControlMaster to set a socket for a single connection and multiplex ptys over i
13:16 < V7> spare: hm
13:16 < spare> ssh lets you tunnel multiple connections over a single master socket so its only one tcp connection
13:16 < kurahaupo> I would just use a single sftp coprocess
13:17 < BCMM> spare has the right answer, i reckon
13:17 < BCMM> sftp over an existing ssh connection has minimal overhead
13:19 < kurahaupo> Assuming the server is configured to permit multiplexed connections
13:20 < V7> What would be in case it doesn't ?
13:20 < kurahaupo> But on the whole I think I'd rather just send the file of interest to a unique name on the remote, and then run something on the remote to renumber it so that there's no trace condition
13:21 < velix> Anyone with an idea, why this gives me errror "grep: Invalid range end"? grep -E '[57-59]'
13:21 < spare> MaxSessions is set to 10 by default unless its turned off for a reason it should be normal
13:21 < kurahaupo> velix: because 5 is less than 7
13:21 < kurahaupo> velix: they are CHARACTER ranges
13:21 < velix> kurahaupo: it should match 57, 58, 59 :)
13:22 < velix> kurahaupo: oh?
13:22 < kurahaupo> velix: you want 5[7-9]
13:22 < velix> kurahaupo: And what if I want 27-59 ?
13:22 < kurahaupo> velix: whatever is in […] matches ONE character
13:23 < velix> kurahaupo: bug or feature? :)
13:23 < kurahaupo> Intentional
13:23 < kurahaupo> Feature
13:23 < velix> kurahaupo: okay, I'll do it in perl :)
13:24 < kurahaupo> velix: 2[7-9]|[3-5][0-9]
13:24 < velix> kurahaupo: wow... that's the worst intentional feature I've ever seen :)
13:24 < velix> kurahaupo: but thanks.
13:24 < kurahaupo> velix: I'm happy with Perl, but its regex [] works exactly the same way
13:25 < velix> kurahaupo: Yeah, but I can compare numbers in Perl, like x >= 27 and x <= 59 :)
13:25 < kurahaupo> velix: it's a string processing utility, not a number processing utility
13:25 < velix> kurahaupo: ok, you're right.
13:28 < velix> kurahaupo: thanks again. it works [tm]
13:29 < revel> fff™
13:29 < revel> ™
13:29 < kurahaupo> velix: you're welcome ™ 🙃
13:43 < butterthebuddha> I'm booting into an unknown system with two bootable partitions; the second partition contains an unknown linux distro, the first partition runs a different version of Ubuntu than what GRUB reports.
13:43 < butterthebuddha> Does this mean that the second partition runs the Ubuntu version that GRUB reports? I can provide more details if needed, or if something is unclear.
13:44 < bazhang> how could it be unknown
13:44 < bazhang> did someone else install it
13:44 < butterthebuddha> unkown as in I don't know what the OS is
13:44 < gnulligan> at what point in the gentoo handbook instructions has the kernel actually been compiled?
13:45 < gnulligan> #gentoo is dead
13:45 < MrElendig> mount the partitions and see what is actually on them
13:45 < butterthebuddha> The system boots into a prompt asking for a password, so without knowing the password I have no way that I know of getting a shell
13:45 < MrElendig> butterthebuddha: luks?
13:45 < MrElendig> if not then just mount them
13:47 < butterthebuddha> Ah, both partitions are running the same version of Ubuntu
13:48 < butterthebuddha> GRUB is reporting an older version of Ubuntu in the boot menu though, what is that referring to?
13:49 < butterthebuddha> In the "Advanced options for Ubuntu <ver-num> (on /dev/sda1)" boot entry
13:49 < MrElendig> the grub config is not directly linked to the distro version in any way
13:49 < BCMM> gnulligan: you may have to wait more than four minutes for an answer on irc, on a saturday
13:49 < MrElendig> you can change it to say "bananaphone 42" if you like
13:49 < butterthebuddha> Where does grub pull this from then?
13:49 < butterthebuddha> Is this baked into the config?
13:49 < BCMM> gnulligan: but also, your questions is weirdly simple - have you actually read the handbook?
13:50 < MrElendig> the titles of the items are just a string in the config
13:50 < butterthebuddha> I see. Thanks.
13:50 < butterthebuddha> That answers my question.
13:50 < anthonym> Hey guys, probably a really dumb question, but added an autossh entry to reverse port forward (ssh), but I need to remove it, is there any way to do this?
13:50 < MrElendig> menuentry "bananaphone 42" { #actually boots windows here }
13:50 < BCMM> gnulligan: if you're doing manual kernel config, it's `make && make modules_install` (specifically the `make` bit)
13:51 < BCMM> gnulligan: the next line actually says "When the kernel has finished compiling", which ought to avoid any confusion
13:52 < BCMM> gnulligan: if you're doing genkernel, the kernel is compiled when "genkernel all" has completed - this is a tiny bit less obvious in the handbook, to be fair
13:56 < kope> if i have a dir and it have alot of mixed files , eg : .jpg , .txt , .js .. , and i want to search for a word
13:56 < kope> how can ifind it
13:56 < kope> ?
13:56 < kope> in one command
13:56 < MrElendig> define "search for a word"
13:56 < MrElendig> a filename? a word in a text file? what?
13:58 < cil0y7d3> *._
13:58 < kope> i dont know file name
14:01 < MrElendig> man find
14:01 < MrElendig> or you can use globbing, depending on use case
14:03 < kope> MrElendig,  i dont know the extension of file , i just want to search randomly
14:03 < sujeet> kope: suppose you want to find a file in the current directory with doggo in the name, you can do find . -type f -name '*doggo*'. if you aren't sure of the case you can do -iname instead of -name.
14:04 < sujeet> if you don't want it to go into subdirs, you can add -maxdepth 1
14:04 < kope> sujeet, not work
14:04 < sujeet> then maybe you don't have a file with doggo in the name?
14:04 < kope> find . -type f -name 'test'
14:04 < sujeet> not test
14:04 < sujeet> '*test*'
14:04 < sujeet> unless you literally mean the file, test.
14:05 < kope> also not work
14:05 < sujeet> do you have a file with test in the name?
14:05 < kope> im trying to find inside the file
14:05 < kope> or strings file
14:05 < sujeet> ughhh that's different
14:05 < sujeet> we're talking about file names, not file contents
14:06 < sujeet> you said .jpg, you want to look inside of a .jpg for words?
14:06 < kope> yes , like strings jpg
14:06 < MrElendig> man grep then
14:06 < sujeet> just do this: grep 'word' *
14:06 < kope> grep -i "word"
14:07 < sujeet> you want to grep the output of strings jpg?
14:07 < kope> yes
14:08 < MrElendig> you probably want -l, possibly -U too
14:08 < sujeet> so how about strings file | grep ?
14:08 < kope> strings *.txt | grep -i "test"
14:08 < kope> not working
14:08 < sujeet> if you want sure
14:09 < kope> strings *.jpg | grep -i "test"
14:09 < sujeet> what are you expecting exactly?
14:09 < kope> im trying to string all jpg file
14:09 < kope> and grep the word i want
14:09 < MrElendig> if it is the metadata you are trying to parse, there are much better tools than string
14:09 < MrElendig> strings*
14:09 < sujeet> yeah, do you want to just look at exif?
14:10 < kope> yes
14:10 < MrElendig> then use one of the many exif tools
14:10 < MrElendig> or just use darktable
14:10 < kope> im fine with strings
14:10 < sujeet> are you looking for steg strings?
14:11 < MrElendig> strings may not work as expected due to this thing called "encodings"
14:11 < sujeet> i don' tthink you canread jpg metadata with strings
14:11 < MrElendig> sujeet: you can
14:11 < MrElendig> sujeet: but good luck parsing the result
14:11 < sujeet> as you say, it's not ascii encoded
14:11 < sujeet> yes
14:11 < sujeet> i mean you can do strings | grep
14:11 < phre4k> I set my KVM VM to host network and now I want to connect from Host → VM, but when I ping the VM's IP there's no route.
14:11 < sujeet> *cant
14:12 < phre4k> or rather the destination is unreachable, why?
14:12 < MrElendig> sujeet: you can if you know *exactly* what byte sequecnce to grep for :p
14:12 < sujeet> lol
14:12 < sujeet> i thought maybe he's doing steg
14:12 < MrElendig> anyway apt search exif or similar
14:13 < MrElendig> most distroes ships with multiple exif tools
14:13 < MrElendig> I suspect that he don't really know what he actually wants to do
14:13 < phre4k> hmmm… https://wiki.libvirt.org/page/Guest_can_reach_outside_network,_but_can%27t_reach_host_(macvtap) → but I want my IP to stay the same, basically
14:15 < phre4k> can I set a route to my guest's macvtap network through the second interface's isolated network?
14:24 < mawk> probably phre4k
14:24 < mawk> for a couple IPs only
14:24 < mawk> or a range only
14:24 < mawk> you get the idea
14:24 < phre4k> nvm, I think I should use a regular bridge instead of macvtap
14:25 < mawk> yeah it's way wiser
14:25 < mawk> if you've got a container and not a VM
14:25 < mawk> even for a VM you can use a bridge
14:27 < phre4k> how do I remove the macvtap interface? :/
14:27 < phre4k> I have a "macvtap0@eno1" showing up in ip a, can I just ip link remove… it?
14:29 < phre4k> whoops, just deleted it and the VM crashed :'D
14:29 < phre4k> whooooops, the whole server crashed apparently
14:30 < phre4k> what did I do :D
14:33 < c0mrade> Anyone wants to buy info/data?
14:33 < KnightsOfNi> How much for 100 infos?
14:34 < c0mrade> It's not about the quantity. It's the quality...
14:34 < KnightsOfNi> How much for 1 quality info?
14:35 < c0mrade> Like 500$.
14:35 < c0mrade> It really depends.
14:35 < KnightsOfNi> cheap af!
14:35 < KnightsOfNi> for quality info
14:36 < c0mrade> Yeah.
14:40 < phre4k> what's the simplest monitoring solution where I can just define a simple bash/ansible check, see the return value or if it fails and see a green or red light?
14:40 < torebro> I have a directory with the permissions drwxrwx---, owner root, and group vboxsf. I added my user to the vboxsf group (and running "groups username" shows vboxsf), but when I try to cd to the directory, I still get permission denied. Shouldn't this work?   https://i.imgur.com/hM15nik.png
14:42 < SkunkyFone> torebro: yes....
14:42 < iflema> torebro: re-logon... logout first
14:43 < torebro> oh, that was it! lesson learned. thanks.
14:43 < iflema> cant remember if you cansource anything but a logout will o it
14:45 < torebro> it's pretty unusual for Linux to require a restart (even if this is just re-login) for something to take effect
14:46 < iflema> not really
14:51 < c0mrade> I've got some sensitive data.
14:51 < KnightsOfNi> sounds legit
14:52 < c0mrade> It is...
14:52 < c0mrade> I can show you some proof...
14:52 < iflema> phre4k: light? as in gpio?
14:54 < phre4k> iflema: yeah, well, I'd like to have a dashboard where I can see a list of my customers and just a red/green icon besides them
14:55 < Li> how many components needed to have just a minimal bootable running linux with bash shell + coreutils?
14:56 < phre4k> something like this: https://twitter.com/tsugliani/status/498435482439917568
14:56 < Li> and what are those? any tutorial will be appreciated
14:56 < Li> no LFS .. is too long process
14:56 < phre4k> Li: no package manager?
14:57 < iflema> Li: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk9TatW9ino
14:57 < phre4k> Li: what do you want to do with it?
14:57 < phre4k> iflema: cool :)
14:58 < iflema> phre4k: return value? bash return ($?) ?
14:58 < mawk> phre4k: ip link del $IFACE
14:58 < mawk> but there are interfaces that won't go away
14:58 < mawk> you can't delete them
14:58 < mawk> you need to unload the relevant kernel module for that
14:58 < mawk> like vti or gre
15:01 < StealthKK> hello
15:01 < Li> iflema: the talk is awsome so far .. thanks
15:01 < StealthKK> just registered. did i see someone trying to grep a jpg just earlier??
15:03 < StealthKK> uh, hello?
15:03 < TheDcoder> Hello guys, got a new computer, the solution is a bit high and I am not used to this... so the text is a bit small, is there something like a DPI setting in Linux? In Windows I have set it to 125% so it would be nice if I can have the same effect here
15:03 < TheDcoder> *resolution
15:04 < StealthKK> why would you want it set to 125%?
15:04 < TheDcoder> I am not sure, that was the windows default for this computer
15:04 < TheDcoder> things looked bigger with that DPI
15:04 < StealthKK> is your monitor super hi dpi?
15:05 < compdoc> TheDcoder, there is on some desktops. I have a 2k rez screen and need to use 125% too
15:05 < TheDcoder> Not really, it is a full HD monitor (1920x1080)
15:05 < StealthKK> then you dont need 125%
15:05 < compdoc> (for windows)
15:05 < TheDcoder> I am normally used to a 1366x786 so this is high for me
15:05 < StealthKK> ewwww!
15:05 < TheDcoder> yeah I know...
15:05 < StealthKK> what kind of resolution is that btw?
15:06 < StealthKK> 1366?
15:06 < TheDcoder> pixels?
15:06 < compdoc> when I log in remotely to mate desktops, I use 96% to have things look right
15:06 < StealthKK> yeah that isnt any standard i've ever seen
15:07 < StealthKK> mate, the windows 7 of linux :P
15:07 < TheDcoder> sorry, 1366 x 768
15:07 < TheDcoder> it is a standard resolution: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Vector_Video_Standards8.svg
15:07 < StealthKK> how do you even find a monitor with that native resolution in 2018?
15:08 < barometz> you get a laptop
15:08 < StealthKK> i haven't seen a monitor like that since like 1999
15:08 < TheDcoder> ^
15:08 < TheDcoder> thta was a laptop
15:08 < TheDcoder> *that
15:08 < barometz> a lot of laptops that aren't 1080p have that res still
15:08 < StealthKK> either way...1999
15:08 < TheDcoder> yep, true
15:08 < TheDcoder> anyway, what is the easiest way to adjust the DPI?
15:09 < StealthKK> but WHY would anyone get that?
15:09 < fendur> StealthKK: what are you not following? that's how a lot of laptops come configured
15:10 < StealthKK> oh i'm following. I'm just not in to crappy stuff
15:10 < StealthKK> https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/laptop-screen-resolution-ripoff
15:10 < fendur> why does it matter any way? no one asked for judgements, but help in making their desktop useful to them.
15:10 < TheDcoder> I agree
15:11 < compdoc> is it mainly font sizes in windows, etc? you can set that in Appearance
15:11 < StealthKK> use the right tools for the job and you'll be much happier in the end
15:11 < StealthKK> fendur that's fine but they'll get my judgements anyway.
15:12 < TheDcoder> compdoc: It is not only about the font size, I am currently using a large font in my IRC client. DPI should also the scale of things to just make then right :)
15:13 < compdoc> but if you set the font wor windows titles and window text, it sets size in a way. I dont see a dpi setting, except for remote desktop
15:13 < compdoc> *for
15:14 < StealthKK> i joined the channel thinking it'd be intense discussion about the finer things in linux, not how can linux support my 10 year old computer
15:14 < TheDcoder> I am looking up and it is possible to change the DPI in X, just looking at how now
15:14 < fendur> StealthKK: maybe you want a different linux channel?
15:14 < compdoc> ^
15:14 < TheDcoder> #linuxpcmasterrace
15:14 < TheDcoder> ^
15:14 < compdoc> lol
15:17 < StealthKK> yeah if that exists
15:18 < StealthKK> is there a good linux channel?
15:18 < rpgio> depends how you define 'good'
15:20 < TheDcoder> Found that KDE's display settings had a scaling option
15:20 < StealthKK> many active users discussing relevant topics about the finer or advanced subjects of the system. i.e. not getting support for their old computers.
15:20 < TheDcoder> I have set it to 1.2x, should be enough, will see the effect after restarting
15:21 < fendur> StealthKK: no. they are all bad.
15:21 < TheDcoder> #computer-science maybe
15:21 < TheDcoder> ^ StealthKK
15:21 < doldor> Does anyone know the PPA for Firefox Developer Edition is? Using ubuntu-mozilla-daily/firefox-aurora only results in regular FF
15:22 < iflema> StealthKK: red or blue pill...
15:22 < revel> doldor: Developer Edition is the exact same version as Beta now.
15:23 < doldor> revel: So 60.0b4 is pretty much same as the older Developer Edition label counted for?
15:24 < revel> doldor: Not "pretty much", before, dev edition was another release somewhere between nightly and beta, now it's the same as beta, it just has different branding.
15:25 < doldor> revel: Ah, thanks for clearing that up. The lack of the blue icon and diff title had confused me. Just to make sure, the "b4" part of the version indicates it's beta right?
15:25 < revel> Beta release 4, I think.
15:25 < doldor> Cheers!
15:41 < mawk> using expect I want to type commands in a bash session and make it look like some human is typing
15:41 < mawk> so I'm using spawn /bin/bash; then before every command I expect "$ "; then send something
15:41 < mawk> but when I use send -h to make it look like a human is typing the command only appears at the end
15:41 < mawk> as if the terminal used for bash was in line editing mode and not raw mode
15:42 < mawk> normally bash's readline will echo back immediately the characters used
15:44  * iflema pets the EMP button
15:45 < fendur> lol, i.e. a reset button?
15:47 < hexnewbie> OK, I just realised you can call memory pages ‘RAM pages’. LOL.
15:48 < newuser2894> hey does anybody know how to get the links from a room's description?
15:48 < mawk> what do you mean
15:48 < mawk> type /topic ?
15:49 < newuser2894> freenode's room list. like when i hover the mouse to #haskell then a small rectangular window pops up that includes a description about that particular room
15:50 < hexnewbie> /topic #haskell
15:51 < newuser2894> #topic ##linux
15:51 < newuser2894> #topic #linux
15:51 < paddy|> new is not stupid
15:52 < newuser2894> forget about it
16:01 < rendar> when i boot my machine, i get in dmesg messages this:  NFSD: starting 90-second grace period (net ffffffff820d2540)
16:01 < rendar> how i can avoid this?
16:01 < rendar> online i can't find anything useful
16:05 < Afarian> exit
16:14 < nabblet> hi, I have a very weird problem: My OS claims that my /dev/sda7 is full. I can not tab-complete in the shell because of lack of space. I deleted some big files (several GB) and df -h shows 166GB of 178 use, but(!) 100% usage. 'df -i' shows no sign of inode shortage. fsck.ext4 says everything is clean. Any ideas?
16:16 < danieldg> sounds like a bug to me
16:17 < compdoc> Force fsck on the boot?
16:18 < compdoc> whats mounted on /dev/sda7? thats an odd part number
16:18 < nabblet> danieldg: in fact I had some file system isses in the past. I use gentoo kernel 4.9.76
16:18 < nabblet> compdoc: it's fine. It mount's my /
16:19 < nabblet> compdoc: boot/EFI partition, some partitions for windows, one ubuntu OS and gentoo (my main)
16:19 < nabblet> *main OS
16:20 < compdoc> sounds complicated
16:20 < nabblet> compdoc: I forced fsck from ubuntu
16:20 < nabblet> it stated that everything is clean
16:21 < nabblet> compdoc: I can log in with the tty but I can not log in through slim (=desktop manager). It probably tries to create a file in the process of logging in and fails.
16:22 < compdoc> delete more then
16:23 < compdoc> uninstall libreoffice or large program, fix things, then reinstall
16:24 < nabblet> df -h => Size = 174G ; Used = 166G; Avail = 0; Use%  =100%; Mounted on = /
16:24 < danieldg> ah, some of that would be reserved for root
16:24 < danieldg> ext4 reserves ~5% for root iirc
16:24 < nabblet> compdoc: I already removed several files (some ISO images of distros, etc.)
16:24 < danieldg> so it's "full" because you're near the maximum
16:24 < nabblet> danieldg: I read that too, but I am already below that
16:25 < nabblet> I can't even make the smallest text file. Even autocomplete fails me (so I guess I can not write a single bit)
16:25 < danieldg> 174*.95=165.30 < 166
16:25 < nabblet> Ok, I'll keep on deleting stuff
16:25 < nabblet> brb
16:25 < danieldg> or just change the reserved %age
16:29 < Dr_Coke> Well I guess you took my youth and gave it all away
16:30 < paddy|> whats going on today
16:30 < Dr_Coke> Pantera
16:30 < Dr_Coke> and yoiu
16:31 < nabblet> danieldg: compdoc Whoop! You were right with the 5% rule and I should process the information I read more carefully. Good catch & thank you very much!
16:31 < kbeflo> is ab from apache2-utils compatible for benchmarking an nginx server?
16:32 < ananke> kbeflo: yes. it's not specific to apache
16:33 < kbeflo> thanks ananke!
16:38 < julius> hi
16:38 < fr0tzed> julius, sup
16:38 < julius> how do you check the fan speed of your cpu fan if sensors does not report it?
16:39 < Li> can anyone write man pages for linux man pages?
16:40 < Dr_Coke> Li why's that?
16:40 < paddy|> julius: search your distros package database for "sensors". it will hopefully look of tools like fancontrol
16:41 < paddy|> did you try to solve the problem with the sensors already?
16:42 < julius> paddy|, the command sensors is neither showing fan speeds on my laptop nor on the system in question
16:43 < paddy|> julius: which distros do you use when i may ask?
16:43 < julius> ubuntu 17.10
16:43 < julius> i was suspecting that the chipset is maybe to new...its a i5 8600
16:43 < julius> z370 chip
16:44 < julius> but google searches for the problematic does not turn up anything
16:45 < paddy|> is probably "too new" then
16:53 < julius> why cant i do: echo "ondemand" > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor        bash: echo: write error: Invalid argument
16:53 < Acheron> on the command "inxi -s" does anyone see a fan speed?
16:53 < Acheron> Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A is all i have ever seen
16:56 < paddy|> i forgot which of the sensors packages is for what but to poll info from sensors you need these to be installed
17:01 < sagax> hi all!
17:01 < pnbeast> Can't it just be some, maybe the ones who are awake?
17:01 < sagax> help me please, how to setup limit memory for graphiz?
17:02 < MrElendig> sagax: cgroups
17:02 < sagax> example dot or neato or circo
17:02 < sagax> MrElendig: what is?
17:02 < MrElendig> leveraging cgroups is generally the best way to set resource limits
17:10 < qnord> Why doesn't Linux just kill processes that use too much memory instead of locking up my entire system?
17:11 < Namarrgon> it does kill processes when it runs out of ram, under certain conditions
17:11 < ananke> qnord: it already does.
17:12 < Namarrgon> it just may take a long time if you have too much swap and make it appear as if the system locked up
17:13 < Yamakaja_> Hey guys, i need help - I fucked up and deleted part of my installation (Archlinux) (usr/, home/ and etc/ look fine, but /bin is nuked). Any recommendations on how to proceed without having to completely reinstall? (I've got backups of my data, though i'd like to avoid a full reinstall). Filesystem is ext4. extundelete segfaults on --restore-all
17:14 < Namarrgon> do you still have /var?
17:14 < Namarrgon> how exactly did you delete /bin?
17:14 < Yamakaja_> Looks fine
17:15 < Yamakaja_> Namarrgon: i took the output of pacman -Fl and piped it into xargs rm -r .-.
17:15 < Namarrgon> if the local db in /var is still intact then you can reinstall all packages from the iso, just point pacman at the chroot
17:15 < Yamakaja_> And apparently pacman -Fl doesn't just list the files that it contains, but also the directories which they're in
17:15 < Yamakaja_> Alright, how would i do that?
17:16 < Yamakaja_> (That is, which pacman parameters do i need?)
17:16 < schuur> hi people, does anyone know a method to setup preset configuration for linux installers? So for example I not longer need to select timezone etc
17:16 < schuur> * to install the os
17:16 < Namarrgon> Yamakaja_: "pacman -Qnq -r /mnt" will give you the list of installed, native, packages, you can pipe it back into "pacman -r /mnt -S"
17:17 < qnord> ananke, Namarrgon: i have 3gb swap, and i dont have lots of memory on this machine, and some programs sometimes try to use too much, so it locks up the system
17:17 < qnord> is there a way to remedy that?
17:17 < Namarrgon> Yamakaja_: then you have to reinstall the forteign packages
17:17 < Yamakaja_> Alright, i just checked and the db looks fine
17:17 < ananke> qnord: I'm not sure your symptom->cause analysis is sufficient to determine that
17:18 < ananke> qnord: do you see any disk activity when this happens?
17:18 < Namarrgon> qnord: google for 'swapiness' and look how ram overcommit works and how you could disable it
17:18 < qnord> ananke: yes, a lot
17:18 < qnord> Namarrgon: okay
17:18 < ananke> schuur: that's distro specific. each major distro has a different automated install process
17:18 < ananke> qnord: then turn off swap completely.
17:21 < Yamakaja_> Namarrgon:  alright, how to i properly pipe it in there?
17:21 < Namarrgon> with a shell pipe: |
17:21 < Yamakaja_> well, pacman -S doesn't accept input on stdin and xargs also didn't work
17:21 < paddy|> ! |
17:22 < Yamakaja_> (My attempt: pacman -r /mnt -Qnq | xargs -n 10 -p 1 pacman -r /mnt -S)
17:22 < paddy|> do you remember the game pipe mania?
17:22 < Namarrgon> it will red from stdin if you use '-' as the parameter
17:22 < Namarrgon> *read
17:22 < Yamakaja_> Ah, thx
17:23 < Namarrgon> you might want to set the --cachedir to the cache in /var/cache/pacman/pkg, or you could run out of space on the ramdisk
17:23 < Namarrgon> /mnt/var/cache/pacman/pkg, that is
17:24 < Yamakaja_> Alright, there we go. This might take a while ...
17:25 < Yamakaja_> Perfect time to do what i was actually going to do today, study for upcoming exams .-.
17:25 < Yamakaja_> (It all started with trying to install a TeX distribution)
17:26 < Hdphn> ok s
17:26 < Hdphn> so
17:26 < Hdphn> ubuntu update broke on me
17:26 < MrElendig> Yamakaja_: useeless use of xargs
17:26 < Hdphn> antergos installer giving me error
17:26 < Hdphn> dont have patience to install arch the manual way again ( I can but dont want to)
17:26 < Hdphn> so plz suggest me a one install distro
17:26 < MrElendig> Yamakaja_: somethingthatgeneratespackagenames | pacman -whatever -
17:27 < MrElendig> Yamakaja_: pacman will happily read package names from stdin
17:34 < Yamakaja_> MrElendig:  i wasn't ware of that feature until now, that's nice :D
17:42 < mawk> using expect I want to do human-like typing
17:42 < mawk> but when I use send the data doesn't appear until the \n, why is that ?
17:44 < CodeBug> never know mawk..what are you trying to achieve here
17:45 < qnord> on linux, how do some programs accomplish being able to run a server and allow remote connections from various locations without opening the services on a router or similar?
17:45 < mawk> what I said CodeBug
17:45 < mawk> human-like typing in a bash session
17:45 < mawk> so that the user running the expect script sees it
17:46 < mawk> bash cinema
17:46 < saltlake> HI
17:50 < rypervenche> qnord: You might be looking for UPnP.
17:51 < BCMM> just joined; are we talking about media streaming or port forwarding?
17:57 < gnulligan> are "tar --xattrs" and "tar --xattrs-include='*.*' " the same?
17:57 < gnulligan> the tar man page is ambiguous on this
17:58 < gnulligan> according to https://www.gnu.org/software/tar/manual/html_section/tar_33.html#SEC70
17:58 < gnulligan> --xattrs When used with `--extract', this option tells tar, for each file extracted, to read stored attributes from the archive and to apply them to the file.
17:59 < gnulligan> so I'm *guessing* that --xattrs and --xattrs-include='*.*' are the same
17:59 < gnulligan> but I want to make sure
18:00 < paddy|> if you are more skilled than me then you could look at the code
18:00 < gnulligan> ugh why is this always the answer to my question???
18:00 < gnulligan> "what does your project do?" "uh look at the source"
18:01 < paddy|> because that is one strong point of free software
18:03 < gnulligan> I once asked alpine what the differences were between standard, virtual and extended. You know what they said? "here's the git, go nuts". It's not a strength to be unhelpful
18:03 < gnulligan> It's great to have the option to look through the source when I want/need to
18:03 < gnulligan> but that shouldn't be the answer to every question
18:04 < m1n> uh.. can someone explain why 24-bit colors works inside tmux in rxvt-unicode-pixbuf (AUR), but it doesn't work outside of tmux. Kind of lol-ing right nah ...
18:04 < gnulligan> m1n: read the source :)
18:04 < paddy|> you expect the free beer variant to count for free support aswell?
18:04 < ananke> gnulligan: get over yourself
18:05 < m1n> gnulligan: which one? the pixbuf or tmux?
18:05 < gnulligan> rude lol
18:05 < gnulligan> m1n: I was joking
18:05 < m1n> gnulligan: I ate your pancakes
18:05 < gnulligan> :o
18:05 < gnulligan> TOO FAR
18:05 < m1n> --------------------
18:05 < m1n> me
18:05 < m1n> I crossed the line
18:06 < gnulligan> xD
18:06 < paddy|> is 1 person who uses 2 clients the same time still team play?
18:08 < DrunkRhino> Hmm... seems like mate-screensaver is having issues displaying on this thin client setup. Jiggling the mouse results in the bg showing, then about when the dialog to input the password should show, the screen switches back to black. My guess would be something with DISPLAY? Anyone have any ideas?
18:09 < Brek> anyone on solus?
18:09 < m1n> if you run rxvt, try (in and out of tmux): for r in {0..255..85}; do for g in {0..255..85}; do for b in {0..255..85}; do printf "$r $g $b » \x1b[38;2;${r};${g};${b}m#ABC-XYZ\!\n"; done; done; done
18:09 < ibttis> hello could someone recommend some good resources for learning unix/linux system administration?
18:10 < ananke> ibttis: this is ##linux, so we can focus on linux. there are metric ton of guides out there, including books, videos, courses, etc. you can start with something like RHEL admin guide
18:10 < mnemon> gnulligan: I think the manual is pretty clear: "By default, when `--xattr' is used, all names are stored in the archive (or extracted, if using `--extract'). This can be controlled using the following options: --xattr-exclude=..."
18:10 < mnemon> except for the typo
18:11 < gnulligan> mnemon: ok cool, so --xattrs is the same as --xattrs-include='*.*'
18:11 < gnulligan> because the gentoo handbook uses the long version
18:12 < gnulligan> so I thought they might have a reason
18:12 < gnulligan> maybe just clarity
18:12 < mnemon> well, not sure what happens withouit the --xattrs as the default is --no-xattrs :P
18:12 < ibttis> thanks for the recommendation ananke looks nice
18:15 < harwiltz> I'm having troubjle with permissions in virtualenv. I originally installed virtualenv with sudo, and then realized that was a mistake so I reinstalled it by pip install --user virtualenv. However, I keep getting permission errors when I try to install things from within my virtualenv. Anyone know how I can fix this?
18:21 < DrunkRhino> Hmm, so using mate-screensaver 2>&ss-err.log shows that it seems to be trying to use the i915 driver, but the X server is running on my pi, and the netbook is the only thing that should be using the i915 directly (though the diplay is eee.local:0). Thoughts anyone?
18:25 < rypervenche> harwiltz: What version of python is on your machine?
18:26 < rypervenche> harwiltz: If you're using python3, you'll probably want this syntax: https://docs.python.org/3/library/venv.html
18:29 < Yamakaja_> Alright guys, the installation has almost completed - should i just be able to restart now?
18:29 < Yamakaja_> (reinstallation*)
18:33 < Yamakaja> Holy shit, everything seems to have been fixed :D
18:33 < Yamakaja> (System booted up just fine)
18:38 < rpifan> hello, can u connect a linux box to active directory nd such
18:38 < ananke> rpifan: yes
18:38 < Brek> since I wanted to get rid of arch crap
18:38 < Brek> I found a decent distro thats based on debian
18:38 < Brek> <3
18:38 < ananke> rpifan: for a limited value of 'connect and such'
18:38 < Brek> parrotOS i.e.
18:38 < Brek> <3
18:38 < rpifan> cause ima start a new job, and i asked the boss if ic ould run linux and he said ok buttt its seems the machines are all connected to some kind of shared user thing as people switch desks all the time
18:38 < Brek> thanks triceratux for your suggestion
18:38 < ananke> Brek: great. did that really warrant 5 lines?
18:39 < Brek> I like to be concise and precise and clear
18:39 < ananke> rpifan: that's more than just 'active directory'. you're also talking about roaming profiles
18:39 < rpifan> well thats the impression i got from the quick tour
18:40 < ananke> Brek: wall of emoji-like stuff is hardly 'precise and clear'
18:40 < rpifan> can i plug a linux box into that then
18:40 < Brek> ananke: archlinux sucks
18:40 < ananke> rpifan: depends on what you're trying to accomplish
18:40 < ananke> Brek: that's not newsworthy
18:41 < Yamakaja> What's the issue with archlinux?
18:41 < rpifan> idk im trying to run linux and not touch windows basically if i dont have too
18:41 < Brek> Yamakaja: its KISS for developers
18:41 < Brek> and not its users
18:41 < Yamakaja> KISS?
18:41 < _stuart> I like arch..
18:41 < ananke> rpifan: then run linux. not sure why you think you need to be connected to AD.
18:42 < ananke> Yamakaja: keep it simple stupid principle
18:42 < Yamakaja> Mhm, would you mind elaborating a bit Brek?
18:42 < rpifan> well ims ure there is some reason these ppl are usign roaming profiels tho
18:44 < ananke> rpifan: connecting linux to AD is not going to give you a roaming profile. you also have not showed any reason why a roaming profile would even make sense in your situation.
18:44 < Brek> Yamakaja: arch linux developers basically are ruthless lazy morons. they keep things simple for them and dont care about its users at all. same goes for their testing
18:45 < Brek> the reason archlinux lacks installer is because of the laziness of developers and not "to make user learn arch"
18:45 < rpifan> idk im just the FNG, i know little about the whole set up, they just gave me a tour of the space, there were many rows of computers and i was told ppl like to sit at different computers and move aound. I assume this means they have some kind of set up that allows this to happen
18:45 < kbeflo> Li man man
18:46 < jayNix> there are many linux distros. you can pick a user friendly one
18:46 < Brek> yea
18:46 < Brek> linux mint being the best one so far
18:47 < Brek> for user friendliness. however debian is rock solid when it comes to stability. they actually "test" unlike arch
18:47 < ananke> rpifan: and how do you suppose to run linux in that environment? also, I hope you put in more effort in spelling at your work than you do here.
18:47 < rpifan> no idea thats why im asking
18:48 < ananke> rpifan: we can't answer that for you
18:49 < Brek> Yamakaja: I was a firm archlinux user until I got this job. where I wanna get work done rather than spend all my time tinkering with the OS each time it has issues (Arch)
18:49 < Yamakaja> Well, arch usually doesn't cause me any issues (Other than when i'm doing stupid stuff)
18:49 < mwgg> tinkering with Arch is fun, but indeed, sometimes you just gotta get shit done
18:50 < _stuart> brek: .. yeah, there is only so much time in a day...
18:50 < mwgg> and you need the OS to facilitate that
18:50 < Brek> yea
18:50 < Brek> instead of you facilitating that to OS
18:50 < Brek> lmao
18:50 < ananke> which isn't news at all. vast majority of experienced people in this channel could have told you that before
18:50 < _stuart> if you just want to get to work, mints a good choice
18:50 < Brek> arch sucks so bad.
18:50 < Brek> for work
18:50 < ananke> Brek: we know. now go complain in #archlinux
18:51 < Brek> nah. those are losers. they will bash you and the most help I got from there was "read wiki"
18:51 < Brek> lol
18:51 < Brek> linus should ban archlinux
18:51 < ananke> Brek: your drivel is not much better
18:51 < _stuart> brek: lol
18:51 < BCMM> Brek: you don't *want* help
18:52 < Yamakaja> Brek i really don't understand your issues :/ I've never had any major problems
18:52 < Brek> btw I just found out one advantage of using debian over arch. i.e. you can install multiple versions of one package
18:52 < Brek> for example, gcc has many versions in debian repo
18:54 < Brek> fun fact: Richard Stallman and linus torvald never really liked install linux by themselves. :) they want to get work done
18:55 < Yamakaja> Brek well, they know how exactly GNU/Linux works, I don't :P
18:56 < mwgg> that should theoretically make it easier and more fun for them to install distros like Arch
18:56 < _stuart> not really
18:58 < Brek> life is tough already, dont let arch make it worse for you :)
18:58 < Psi-Jack> Brek: Enough already.
19:01 < mawk> what's the control code to delete one character on the terminal ?
19:01 < mawk> there is ^H which jumps back one character but doesn't delete it
19:01 < DrunkRhino> Ok, maybe this'll help: https://imgur.com/a/c7tBB I'm trying to get my split pi/netbook setup straightened out, but mate-screensaver (seen in the left pane, the pi), seems to be trying to use the i915 driver instead of the pi's own hardware? I mean I know the display is eee.local:0, but nothing else seems to error out like that. Jiggling the mouse results in the bg showing, then about when the dialog to input the password should show, 
19:01 < DrunkRhino> e screen switches back to black.
19:03 < Brek> DrunkRhino: distro?
19:03 < DrunkRhino> The one you just shat on.
19:03 < Brek> black screen is probably caused by driver
19:03 < Brek> try different driver
19:04 < Brek> or fallback on modsetting
19:05 < Brek> DrunkRhino: show dmesg log
19:06 < Psi-Jack> Whoah. Proxmox VE already has a starting point for cloud-init progress. :)
19:07 < DrunkRhino> I'm trying to fix this exact setup though. Everything /except/ mate-screensaver works, but I suspect that's due to the nature of the thin client kind of setup. I know the i915 is what the netbook uses, but not what the pi uses.
19:07 < DrunkRhino> Brek dmesg has nothing particularly useful
19:08 < SpeakerToMeat_> Is there any algorythim/program that is like rsync but smart like diff? I have large files I need to copy over a slow internet in litte time, I have older files, that differ from the remote ones some, but there must be large chunks inside that are the same, only that the chunks might've shifted possition inside
19:08 < Psi-Jack> SpeakerToMeat_: rsync does differentials, if you use it right. That's what it was originally designed to do.
19:09 < widp> I am trying to setup ranger as the default file manager.
19:09 < Psi-Jack> "default?" heh
19:10 < widp> xdg-open works fine, but chromium seems to directories with vscode of all programs, how can I find out what's going on?
19:10 < widp> Psi-Jack: ?
19:11 < SpeakerToMeat_> Psi-Jack: It does but if the block has shifted it does not do smart recognition like diff, it just splits the file in blocks according to size and hashes the blocks for comparison
19:11 < widp> *seems to open
19:16 < Psi-Jack> SpeakerToMeat_: Back in the day, I used to use rsync to update distribution ISOs over dialup.
19:18 < kyloren_> Hi guys, just a quick question. How to download rpm package with all dependencies? Reason why I need to install the package in a server without internet connection. It seems --downloadonly option didn't work for me.
19:20 < ananke> kyloren_: that depends on what distro you're on. zypper/yum/etc can do it
19:21 < kyloren_> It's centos 6.9.
19:21 < jml2> kyloren_, https://access.redhat.com/solutions/10154
19:21 < ananke> kyloren_: search for 'yum download only'
19:21 < Psi-Jack> What's a "server" without internet access?
19:22 < kyloren_> Tried few methods. None is working for me.
19:22 < ananke> kyloren_: it requires a plugin. and we don't know what you tried
19:23 < linuxbox> anyone have any clue how to install nvidia drivers via command line on mageia?
19:23 < mawk> what is \u ?
19:23 < kyloren_> So far I have tried yum --downloadonly and yumdownloader
19:24 < mawk> nevermind
19:24 < jml2> linuxbox, uh
19:25 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, any recommendations on where I might go for advice on this? Forums, mailing lists? I've asked around, and this is weird/obscure enough that no one seems to have anything to suggest.
19:25 < jml2> linuxbox, do you know the commands for your package manager with mageia?
19:25 < Psi-Jack> kyloren_: On a server with no internet connection?
19:25 < ananke> kyloren_: so what are the symptoms of it 'not working'?
19:25 < linuxbox> jml2: urpmi i think is what they use
19:26 < jml2> linuxbox, so use that urpm* things, and search for nvidia.  mageia should have an nvidia package with tainted sources..
19:26 < Psi-Jack> Modern Mageia uses dnf
19:26 < jml2> linuxbox, and i tried it over 2 years ago
19:26 < linuxbox> like all the other linux distros i've tried so far, it wasn't plug and play install, in fact getting to a command prompt is the closest i've got to a desktop
19:26 < kyloren_> Psi-Jack: Yes. That's what I meant.
19:27 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: have you tried tmuxinator at all?
19:27 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
19:28 < kyloren_> ananke: I tried yum localinstall --disablerepo in test vm. It keeps saying missing dependencies
19:28 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: I was just rebuilding my setup for a clone and I saw that tmuxinator is available and was wondering how it was
19:29 < eraserpencil> is vsftpd still relevant in 2018?
19:29 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: it looks like the latest and greatest form ok tmux. I will give it a shot.
19:29 < Psi-Jack> FTP isn't relevant at all. :p
19:29 < ananke> eraserpencil: yes, if you need to run ftp service.
19:30 < ananke> kyloren_: likely because the system you're downloading it on already has some dependencies installed
19:30 < eraserpencil> erm, i do scp for most cases, much less setting up to do.
19:30 < eraserpencil> What use cases might i want to consider an FTP Service?
19:30 < ananke> eraserpencil: if you have to ask, the answer is 'none'
19:31 < kyloren_> ananke: I doubt that. I was using same fresh os.
19:31 < ananke> eraserpencil: now, if you had legacy ftp service you had to maintain, then vsftpd would be 'relevant' as an _implementation_ of FTP. your original question was bogus, because clearly you're asking about _technology_ not _implementation_
19:32 < ananke> kyloren_: did yum --downloadonly download a single or multiple packages?
19:33 < kyloren_> <ananke> Multiple package but it's incomplete because localinstall was failed.
19:33 < ananke> not sure what 'incomplete, because localinstall was failed' even means in this context
19:37 < TheDcoder> Hello again guys. I have a question about running GUI apps as a different user in the same session, is it okay if I run a GUI program like Firefox under a non-root user in the same session?
19:37 < kyloren_> <ananke> When I tried localinstall the package, it says there is missing dependencies
19:37 < jml2> kyloren_, you can specify all the rpms with localinstall, or just use *rpm ... localinstall iirc is for out-of-repository thing.
19:37 < jml2> kyloren_, it would also use repo-checking as well
19:37 < eraserpencil> wanted to understand ftp more. Feel like I'm disregarding it because I dont understand the technology.
19:39 < jml2> eraserpencil, you dont need to. it's insecure by default, that's why things like ftps and ssh+scp are used instead.  It's also a nightmare because 2 ports are used with ftp
19:39 < eraserpencil> jml2: sorry, I was asking about VSFTPD. JUst erm comparing it to SCP
19:40 < jml2> eraserpencil, its basically ftp with a tls envelop.. it still uses 2 ports
19:40 < kyloren_> <jml2> I did include --disablerepo=* option to simulate the no internet thing.
19:40 < eraserpencil> alot of articles give the comparisons of different implementations of FTP buit not much on ftp vs scp, when I might want to use which
19:41 < jml2> kyloren_, then you'll need to use your package manager and "rpm " commands to see what dependencies you are missing.
19:42 < amosbird> hi
19:42 < jml2> i dont think vsftpd encrypts data transfers...
19:42 < amosbird> does mremap clean up the old memory mapping ?
19:43 < eraserpencil> sooo scp trumps vsftpd?
19:43 < TheDcoder> depends on what purpose you want to use it for
19:44  * sauvin uses sftp a lot
19:44 < eraserpencil> can you cite use cases of when I might wish to use one over the other?
19:44 < TheDcoder> SFTP is Secure FTP, you might want to look into it
19:45 < TheDcoder> You will have TLS/SSL encryption layer over the normal FTP connections
19:45 < TheDcoder> A certificate is needed though if you want FTP clients to not show a warning about untrusted host
19:45 < sauvin> Huh?
19:45 < TheDcoder> sauvin: ??
19:46 < sauvin> You can use sftp to log into traditional ftp sites?
19:46 < TheDcoder> really?
19:47 < TheDcoder> Doesn't the server need to support connecting via TLS?
19:47 < sauvin> That's how I read what you'd said about TLS/SSL over normal FTP connections. I misread?
19:47 < Psi-Jack> Noice! Got a Debian 9 PVE instance now functioning with cloud-init to setup initial user, network and package updates. Muahahaha
19:48 < TheDcoder> I don't understand sauvin, sorry if I confused you. I was trying to say that SFTP is a secure layer over FTP
19:48 < TheDcoder> FTP is plain-text by default (for context)
19:48 < sauvin> Nope. It's a file transfer protocol over ssh.
19:48 < eraserpencil> so vsftpd is more secure than scp?
19:48 < ayecee> sftp is not related to ftp, despite the name
19:48 < TheDcoder> ...isn't that SCP?
19:48 < Psi-Jack> eraserpencil: NO
19:49 < sauvin> eraserpencil, NO
19:49 < eraserpencil> okok
19:49 < Psi-Jack> FTP, by sheer design, is more insecure than most protocols. Where FTP clients also act as a server to transfer files.
19:49 < ayecee> ftps is related to ftp though, and is ftp over ssl
19:49 < TheDcoder> Sorry
19:50 < TheDcoder> I have confused ftps over sftp
19:50 < TheDcoder> my apologies
19:50 < sauvin> You better be sorry. It's not nice to confuse grumpy old men!
19:50 < pnbeast> Don't apologize to them, TheDcoder.  They're IRC users.
19:51 < ayecee> they're not people
19:51 < TheDcoder> okay, I am new to this world
19:51 < sauvin> Welcome to the universe of Nanoo Nanoo!
19:51 < pnbeast> Grow a thick skin.  Less apologin', more antagonizin'...
19:51 < Psi-Jack> Awww, jessa wee ol thing isn't he? ;)
19:51 < iodev> TheDcoder: :D
19:52 < TheDcoder> nano /.config/startup.sh
19:52 < TheDcoder> probably a bad place to store my startup script
19:52 < eraserpencil> i really am so confused. So when should I consider transferring files via VSFTPD, when should I consider transferring files over SCP?
19:52 < iodev> NO, use systemd units to start stuff
19:53 < TheDcoder> oh okay
19:53 < iodev> eraserpencil: when you want security, use scp, sftp, when you want to consume your brain cells and tear out your hair use vsftpd
19:53 < TheDcoder> systemd units
19:53 < sauvin> There's precisely one reason I might set up an ftpd of any sort: to make it easy to have an anonymous user.
19:53 < DrunkRhino> So no one has any ideas abuout how to diagnose/fix mate-screensaver seeming to use the wrong driver? Or has any ideas about where would be a better place to look/ask? :/
19:53 < iodev> sauvin: so, you wanna insert a vulnerability into your server
19:53  * iodev claps, sarcastically
19:54 < sauvin> It would have to be an isolated server. :D
19:54 < iodev> sauvin: put it in docker
19:54 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, did you get an answer about running things as different users?  I didn't understand the question.
19:54 < TheDcoder> No I did not pnbeast
19:54 < sauvin> iodev, more isolated than that!
19:54 < ayecee> slow clap
19:54 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, you can run things as ten different users.  Linux is a full multi-user OS and happily supports this.
19:54 < iodev> sauvin: why not just use a cloud solution like nextcloud
19:55 < THX1338> Hi all. Any LPI2 smilulated 4.5 version?
19:55 < TheDcoder> Basically I am trying to have different "identity" for the same apps. The problem is that when I tried this with firefox, it was complaining about dbus being owned by another user
19:55 < sauvin> That's almost isolated enough. :D
19:55 < eraserpencil> ok, so always scp
19:55 < eraserpencil> thanks
19:55 < Psi-Jack> iodev: Clouds are wet. Computers don't like wet.
19:55 < sauvin> scp or sftp.
19:55 < iodev> Psi-Jack: and marshmallow is sticky, so no using Android 6 :D
19:55 < sauvin> I don't use ftp unless I just have absolutely no choice at all
19:56 < Psi-Jack> iodev: I use iOS. :)
19:56 < iodev> sauvin: scp/sftp are same thing
19:56 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, so you want to run an X client, like firefox, as a different user, while you're logged in as, say "user-a"?  Firefox should be run by "user-b"?
19:56 < TheDcoder> yes, that's it pnbeast
19:56 < sauvin> Almost, yes. The user interface is a bit different, sftp is more ftp-like.
19:56 < iodev> Psi-Jack: iOS ... is ...
19:56 < iodev> not open
19:56 < iodev> and that
19:56 < sauvin> iOS is APPLE.
19:56 < iodev> is the nice thing to say, not open source
19:56 < TheDcoder> An apple a day keeps the lawyer away
19:57 < iodev> the worst thing to say about it, is that if you crashed safari in the past it would crash the whole iPhone
19:57 < Psi-Jack> Ooooh nice. This cloud-init stuff is working freakingly awesomely. :)
19:57 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, a poor man's way is to set up both accounts on your machine, then run sshd (maybe allow access only from localhost), then ssh to the localhost with X forwarding, and run firefox as the second user.  It's very hacky, but trivial in practice to do.
19:58 < mateothegreat> or use docker
19:58 < Psi-Jack> Even takes the VM name defined in Proxmox VE and assigned the hostname to the instance via cloud-init. :)
19:58 < TheDcoder> I have already done the setting up an account/user on my computer. I am currently using my shell to su into the other user and lauching apps from there
19:58 < iodev> I found out how microsoft made WSL, they copied a lot from cygwin, it even shares some of the flaws
19:58 < TheDcoder> I do not understand the part about X forwarding
19:59 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, or you could add the complexity of docker to your system.  Or you could use X correctly and skip the X forwarding.  Or you could run a VM.  There are many choices.  Mine is really easy, as I said.
19:59 < iodev> X forwarding reminded me of this
19:59 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, do you know much about ssh/sshd?
19:59 < TheDcoder> I am familiar with ssh and I have tried setting up sshd once
19:59 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, so, you can ssh to the same machine you're on, if the sshd is listening, there.
20:00 < TheDcoder> I don't want docker in the scene... and a VM is too expensive
20:00 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, ssh supports "X forwarding", too - it will carry the GUI data both ways (i.e. keystrokes and mouse can be delivered to the client, and the image can be delivered back to your local X server.
20:00 < TheDcoder> hmmm... what are the benefits of a running sshd over using su in my first user's shell?
20:00 < sauvin> Expensive?
20:00 < pnbeast> Er, do you understand X, TheDcoder?
20:00 < TheDcoder> Oh
20:01 < TheDcoder> No, not sure I do
20:01 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, it becomes trivial to "become" the second user.
20:01 < TheDcoder> not sure how I can do X forwarding over ssh
20:01 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, it's a command line switch when you run the ssh command, or a config file option if you want it by default.
20:01 < TheDcoder> That part is okay pnbeast, I want to make it as seamless as possible
20:02 < TheDcoder> so about X forwarding, do I have to have a window which "streams" the output/image from the other user?
20:03 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, to access gmail, I type, almost literally, "ssh -Y userb@localhost", then I get a new prompt/shell run by userb, and I type "firefox".  The rest is already set up.
20:03 < pnbeast> And the ssh command is actually an alias, so I type a single, short command name, in reality.
20:04 < TheDcoder> Ah I get it!
20:04 < TheDcoder> I just read about X forwarding online
20:04 < pnbeast> TheDcoder, X and ssh cooperate to "forward" the firefox display to your already running login display.
20:04 < TheDcoder> the sshd connects our X server and sends applications to it
20:04 < pnbeast> Yes.
20:04 < TheDcoder> or application windows rather
20:05 < TheDcoder> sounds nice I might try it
20:05 < pnbeast> It probably works out of the box, depending on your distro and sshd configuration.  You just need to have sshd running.  If you're not really using sshd, then I *suggest* restricting its use to localhost, only, for security.
20:06 < pnbeast> Well, pending having both accounts set up.
20:06 < TheDcoder> I can understand
20:06 < TheDcoder> is the ssh overhead negligible?
20:07 < pnbeast> I don't know.  Are you crunching numbers while you're running on a single core desktop?  If you're a normal user, it's negligible.  It's just hacky, is all.
20:07 < TheDcoder> Actually no... I have 4 cores on this beast of a computer
20:07 < TheDcoder> I am just trying to understand it better
20:08 < pnbeast> Your biggest hit is probably running the web browser, all of which tend to be monsters.
20:08 < TheDcoder> yeah, that is one of the biggies I can't miss
20:09 < genewitch> I put a sata drive in a usb enclosure that is known good, dmesg shows /dev/sdu. fdisk shows /dev/sdu2 is lvm; none of the lvm scan commands show that partition, what am i missing?
20:11 < aaro> TheDcoder, firefox profiles may be what you want, also if the problem is just dbus, you may use "dbus-launch --exit-with-session firefox"
20:12 < THX1338> Hi all. Any LPI2 smilulated 4.5 version?
20:12 < ayecee> THX1338: no, none since the last time you asked
20:15 < THX1338> ayecee: thank you.
20:18 < jimm> genewitch, not even pvscan?
20:20 < azarus> With regular old SATA HDDs running in a RAID6 with XFS on top, what I/O sched is suitable? Deadline? I've read CFQ (the default in the vanilla kernel) to be unsuitable in such a setup.
20:20 < ayecee> azarus: did they say why?
20:22 < azarus> ayecee: XFS.org says because of parallelism of XFS
20:22  * azarus shrugs
20:22 < ayecee> where does it say that?
20:22 < azarus> i'll provide a link
20:23 < azarus> ayecee: http://xfs.org/index.php/XFS_FAQ#Q:_Which_I.2FO_scheduler_for_XFS.3F
20:23 < ayecee> guess that pretty much answers your question
20:24 < azarus> I asked to get some more, maybe different opinions ;)
20:24 < ayecee> it's not like there's a lot of options
20:25 < lukey_> ayecee: Benchmark it, but i don't think the difference is big
20:25 < pnbeast> I heard XFS isn't really parallel, it's just that the intersections are way, way far off at the end of your disk space, so it looks parallel.
20:26 < ayecee> wrong a
20:26 < azarus> it's me who should be benchmarking ;)
20:26 < pnbeast> z, y, they're really close together.
20:26 < lukey_> oops
20:26 < pnbeast> lukey_, don't apologize, it's IRC.  I have to keep saying this.
20:27 < genewitch> jimm: not even pvscan
20:27 < azarus> (then again, RAID6 isn't really that great for performance tough)
20:29 < jimm> genewitch, a couple things I thought of of the top of my head... 1, the device isn't formatted as a pv, and 2, pvscan doesn't know to look at that particular device (or maybe a whole class of devices) to see if it's a pv
20:30 < locrian9> I'm trying to trace down an issue with my linux (guest) on my Windows-10 (host) where I can't bring up my linux 'urxvt' terminal.  When I issue the 'echo $DISPLAY' command in the bash shell, I don't see anything displayed. I'm running a window manager 'dwm' and when I hit the shorcut key set (Alt+Shift+Return), no urxvt terminal comes up.
20:30 < genewitch> jimm: http://projectftm.com/#u7NID-AV0BXjDYLyTl1GFg dmesg. http://projectftm.com/#d2-wpUhiGKJIxGR3JVJWTA fdisk. And i think it is an old centos install.
20:31 < lukey_> genewitch: The partition could be marked as "lvm". But that doesn't mean its a valid PV
20:31 < Psi-Jack> locrian9: What virtualization are you using?
20:31 < genewitch> http://projectftm.com/#DC7bsuuKVm26siJm-6kJmg pvscan
20:31 < genewitch> lukey_: ah. maybe try mount -text3 or whatver
20:32 < jimm> you have at least 21 disks?!
20:32 < lukey_> genewitch: what does "file -s /dev/sdu2" give you
20:33 < genewitch> command not found :-D
20:33 < genewitch> I might have to move it to another machine to test, it appears the NAS isn't going to play nice
20:34 < lukey_> genewitch: without the quotation marks just in case...
20:34 < hexnewbie> The disks are too few until you get to sdad
20:34 < Psi-Jack> file is in a package called "file"
20:34 < genewitch> doesn't have the file command, and there's no package manager
20:34 < genewitch> i'll throw it on another machine
20:35 < genewitch> the hdd
20:36 < genewitch> brb
20:39 < hexnewbie> genewitch: Do you have any filters in /etc/lvm/lvm.conf?
20:40 < genewitch> hexnewbie: no idea, i moved it to another machine
20:41 < genewitch> but it shows right up in another machine with pvscan
20:41 < genewitch> hexnewbie: didn't even know that was a thing, lol.
20:41 < genewitch> now lemme get this mounted and make a copy. 100gb sata disk, how old is this
20:42 < mawk> how can I compare file descriptors ?
20:42 < mawk> I'm making a program that will only run in a tty, and unmodified
20:42 < mawk> so I want to make sure /dev/tty exists, and that /dev/tty == stdin == stderr == stdout
20:45 < hexnewbie> mawk: You can run fstat() on the file descriptors, and stat() on /dev/tty. Or you could always open /dev/tty and dup2() it as 0, 1, and 2. But in either case, I think anyone who uses that program will hate you for it.
20:48 < hexnewbie> And fstatat() is really sexy, not that it is new or of any use in this particular instance
20:50 < mawk> it's for a CTF challenge hexnewbie
20:50 < mawk> I don't want the contesters to solve the challenge using a bug in my program
20:50 < mawk> even though I'm pretty sure of the safety of my code
20:50 < mawk> I don't want to leave things that look like clues and slow down the real resolution
20:51 < pnbeast> Cool, you've solved code safety, mawk?
20:51 < genewitch> what is ctf challenge
20:51 < mawk> capture the flag
20:51 < Psi-Jack> Capture The Flag
20:51 < genewitch> and i gotta google fstatat()
20:51 < genewitch> sounds like a C/C++ thing
20:51 < mawk> it's a linux thing
20:51 < mawk> no matter the language
20:51 < pnbeast> genewitch, there may be an extra letter in there.
20:51 < hexnewbie> Proper way to ask is ‘wtf is ctf challenge’ (f stands for flick)
20:52 < mawk> no pnbeast it's fstatat
20:52 < pnbeast> hexnewbie, oh, that's what that f stands for?  I never knew that.
20:52 < mawk> f stat at
20:52 < OzoniE> sup!
20:52 < pnbeast> Oh, sorry.
20:52 < genewitch> Worse than Failure?
20:52 < mawk> it's a stat that takes a dir file descriptor
20:52 < mawk> also taking a flag to make it behave like lstat
20:53 < mawk> I wonder why there's no flstat
20:53 < mawk> everybody can see there's a race condition here
20:53 < hexnewbie> Most boring StarCraft map
20:53 < genewitch> my little pwnies
20:54 < OzoniE> my little pwnies? xD
20:54 < hexnewbie> I'm sure fstatat() has flags that capture all the race conditions
20:54 < mawk> you can give any fd to fstatat ?
20:54 < mawk> and set pathname to NULL
20:54 < mawk> I thought it was only for a directory fd
20:55 < genewitch> everything is a file
20:55 < OzoniE> everything is a file?
20:55 < mawk> it's expecting a *directory* file descriptor, genewitch
20:55 < mawk> everything could be a file but it says directory file descriptor, not file descriptor
20:56 < genewitch> this is why i use mssql as my file system
20:56 < hexnewbie> mawk: Just use fstat (use ‘man 2 stat’ for documentation, because man fstat brings up the doc for fstatat, which is an overkill here. I mean, not the function call, reading all the docs on it)
20:57 < mawk> yeah for normal situations hexnewbie
20:57 < hexnewbie> I don't remember if it had a flag that made it behave like fstat(), but I seem to recall it did
20:57 < mawk> but if you want to have the behavior of lstat I remembered that there are no ways
20:57 < mawk> i.e. don't follow symlinks
20:57 < sauvin> Everything might be a file, but some files are more file-like than others.
20:57 < hexnewbie> The file descriptor is already open, so symlinks are not of concern
20:57 < devilchaos> how can i use my pi to talk to my picom wipy via the gpio pins im not having much luck serching for answers anyone here help? or is that not possible?
20:58 < mawk> yeah, I may have remembered that wrong
20:58 < mawk> now that you say it like that
20:58 < OzoniE> maybe conect them by lan?
20:58 < hexnewbie> mawk: To avoid symlinks with fstat(), you are careful at open time by using the safer openat() call if relevant
20:58 < devilchaos> i know this is an off topic question but not getting much cope in brewpi or electronics
20:59 < mawk> yeah
20:59 < hexnewbie> Er, to avoid race conditions. Avoiding symlinks is more complicated than that.
21:00 < mawk> major:minor are encoded in the st_mode field of struct stat ? I hope so
21:01 < devilchaos> i would like to assemble them in a waterproof case as i am thinking of a project for long distance comms over the town and id like the pi to serv the wipy python scripts
21:01 < hexnewbie> mawk: st_rdev
21:01 < devilchaos> as im going toget the fipy with sigfox and lora
21:01 < mawk> oh sorry, I missed that
21:02 < hexnewbie> mawk: However, I don't think /dev/tty will match the rdev of those of the open stdin/stdout/stderr, so you mayhave better luck reopening them
21:04 < genewitch> devilchaos: what are you trying to do?
21:04 < mawk> yeah that's a problem
21:06 < devilchaos> genewitch: i want to see how far i can comunicate with the fypy of a distance using sigfox or lora
21:06 < devilchaos> and thought i could use my pi for that
21:07 < genewitch> devilchaos: i don't know what any of those are, but we're literally going to start a T-hunt right now
21:07 < devilchaos> lol whats a t-hunt?
21:08 < genewitch> you have a tiny device (like an arudino) that warbles and does morse code, someone hides it
21:08 < genewitch> then everyone else tries to find it
21:08 < genewitch> the transmitter is 15mW
21:09 < devilchaos> sweet
21:09 < genewitch> but "how far can it go" it depends on the freq, antenna, and power
21:10 < devilchaos> well according to the specs its 1000 mtrs
21:11 < devilchaos> do you know what time it is?
21:12 < devilchaos> its whiskey o clock
21:15 < ayecee> indeed. it's 10am somewhere.
21:16 < mawk> there may be the ctermid function that should help hexnewbie by the way
21:16 < mawk> it gives the path to the real controlling terminal
21:16 < mawk> I can compare that to ttyname(0/1/2)
21:16 < mawk> I'm curious how it works tho
21:16 < mawk> maybe it overrides stat() to give the real rdev value
21:17 < mawk> (it = stat handler inside the /dev/tty device)
21:23 < mawk> nevermind
21:23 < mawk> ctermid() returns /dev/tty
21:23 < mawk> that's extremely useful...
21:23 < mawk> why is that thing in the libc even
21:24 < hexnewbie> mawk: I suspect because ctermid() is standard, and I don't if /dev/tty is (or was at the time ctermid() was added to standards).
21:24 < hexnewbie> don't know
21:25 < boblamont> I'm getting this error: System error. Could not open sound file "/home/bsr/archives/5h/current/01-mon-0000.mp3" when I use the command: arecord -f cd -d 120 -t raw | lame -x -r /home/bsr/archives/5h/current/01-mon-0000.mp3 ... but earlier it worked when I did: arecord -f cd -d 3600 -t raw | lame -x -r /home/bsr/archives/1h/01-mon-0000.mp3 (and it isn't the directory difference, using /1h or even just /archives gets the error now, too)
21:27 < mawk> using ttyname on /dev/tty finally solves it
21:27 < mawk> ctermid is really lame then
21:38 < dannylee> .
21:38 < linuxbox> just got elementary os installed, trying to login but it keeps kicking me back to the login screen
21:38 < linuxbox> my guess is it's a driver issue, dunno though 1080ti here
21:39 < Bashing-om> linuxbox: And if you boot with the nomodeset boot parameter ?
21:39 < linuxbox> i didn't see any option when it booted to use a flag, it just went right to the login screen
21:42 < Bashing-om> linuxbox: At grub's boot menu 'e' key for edit mode. in the resulting boot paramaeter screen the line beginning with linux, replace quiet splash with nomodeset. key combo ctl+X to continue the boot proces .. what results ? maybe install the proprietary driver ?
21:42 < linuxbox> i'm on uefi
21:42 < linuxbox> no grub boot menu
21:43 < lukey_> linuxbox: What happens when you login via a VT (Ctrl+Alt+F1)
21:43 < Bashing-om> linuxbox: No grub == no linux ! .. as soon as the firmware screen clears. try spamming the escape key to bring up the grub boot menu .
21:43 < linuxbox> ah okie, i'll try hitting esc while it's booting to see if i can get it
21:43 < cryptic0> I have a string like this with 4 fields: [f1:f2a,f2b,f2c:f3:f4a,f4b]. I need to change the order of the fields, as well as of the subfields within a field.  For the fields, it's easy with awk.  awk -F: '{print $1,$4,$3,$2}', but how do I change the order of comma separated subfields?
21:44 < linuxbox> k i've got a grub console command
21:45 < linuxbox> it's not like ubuntu though where i can just remove a spash or something
21:45 < linuxbox> just a bash terminal with grub there
21:47 < linuxbox> i did hit tab though and see a bunch of commands that are possible heh
21:47 < linuxbox> fix_video perhaps?
21:47 < linuxbox> ah secure boot forbids it
21:48 < linuxbox> back to my original comment yesterday it seems like none of the distros play nice with uefi
21:51 < linuxbox> so i'm not sure how to run nomodeset from this type of grub screen
21:51 < linuxbox> Bashing-om: any thoughts?
21:53 < Bashing-om> linuxbox: in the grub menu with the latest linux kernel selected to boot . press the 'e' key .
21:54 < linuxbox> Bashing-om: i pressed escape have have a grub menu, but pressing E there does nothing, only have limited functionality
21:54 < linuxbox> ah got it!
21:54 < linuxbox> wierd it didn't work the first time
21:55 < Bashing-om> linuxbox: With a linux kernel as the selection to boot ?
21:55 < DrowningElysium> Anyone know what I am doing wrong? Debian 9 https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/qigOqEIR/
21:55 < ayecee> DrowningElysium: dumping links without explanation
21:56 < DrowningElysium> Well it shows 2 commands and an error
21:56 < Bashing-om> linuxbox: Stress causes waste :D
21:56 < ayecee> what should it do instead
21:56 < DrowningElysium> It should restart the mysql server and it says I should run a command, but I ran that before the mysql restart command
21:57 < DrowningElysium> So I wanna know what I did wrong, I am following a tutorial
21:57 < ayecee> what happens when you try
21:57 < DrowningElysium> the error stays
21:58 < ayecee> did you see journalctl -xe for details
21:58 < DrowningElysium> Nop sorry will check
22:00 < DrowningElysium> Alright I fixed the error, had a typo, still the warning stays: Warning: mysql.service changed on disk. Run 'systemctl daemon-reload' to reload units.
22:00 < DrunkRhino> Alright, casting a wider net with this one. If anyone wants to see if they notice whats causing MATE-screensaver to screw up, I've put up a few interlinked posts (that could also use some love to keep em visible), https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/437790/mate-screensaver-seems-to-error-out-upon-wake
22:00 < ayecee> but no error, right
22:01 < DrowningElysium> True, but I still wonder why that warning wont go away
22:01 < ayecee> run that command again
22:01 < DrowningElysium> Doesn't help
22:01 < ayecee> what happens when you try
22:02 < DrowningElysium> Doesn't output anything on the command, but when I say restart mysql it still displays that warning
22:03 < ayecee> try systemctl restart
22:03 < ayecee> oops, no, not that.
22:04 < DrowningElysium> What should I run instead?
22:04 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm. wierd.. I successfully, and quite easilly got cloud-init working on debian 9, but not debian 8.
22:04 < linuxbox> why isn't uefi boot compatible with the use of third-party drivers?
22:04 < Psi-Jack> debian 8's cloud-init won't setup the network from the iso9660 cloud-init config.
22:05 < ayecee> DrowningElysium: don't know. daemon-reload seems to be what is normally used for that.
22:05 < DrowningElysium> Yeah, but this warning gives me the feeling that it somehow didn't do anything
22:05 < Bashing-om> linuxbox: because 3 party is untrusted software .. and secure boot makes sure you know what you are doing .
22:05 < CoCo_Kid594> anyone mess with linux on a droid.. got mine working but font in xterm way to small.  kind of neat though.
22:06 < ayecee> could try systemctl reload mysql.service
22:07 < CoCo_Kid594> do you know a xterm command to increase font size?
22:07 < linuxbox> isn't it time we started using signed certificates provided by nvidia or amd to get around this O.o
22:10 < rr1993> someone here uses fedora shim
22:10 < rr1993> for secure boot?
22:13 < Psi-Jack> rr1993: Ask real questions, not ask to ask or poll. :)
22:15 < rr1993> Well okay, lets start a discussion then. I dont see how fedora shim protects against attacks
22:15 < rr1993> i mean i know how secure boot is used to protect against attacks
22:15 < rr1993> but in fedora shim you can just add, MOKs on the fly
22:15 < rr1993> meaning an attack can still boot anything they want right?
22:16 < rr1993> attacker*
22:16 < Psi-Jack> Perhaps this topic is better discussed more specifically on #fedora
22:17 < ayecee> rr1993: provided physical access, i imagine.
22:17 < rr1993> ayecee, yes
22:18 < toothe> whats that tool to grep for IP addresses?
22:18 < toothe> per cidr notation?
22:18 < Psi-Jack> toothe: Your question makes no sense.
22:18 < ayecee> chain of trust has to start somewhere, and that's normally at physical access
22:19 < toothe> Psi-Jack: sorry, let me,rephrase. i heard there was a GNU tool to search through a text file for IP addresses based on the cidr notation as the search string.
22:20 < toothe> i cant recall its namr however. i have a few days and i was going to write a BSD variant.
22:20 < Psi-Jack> I know of no such tool specifically, but that's a better understanding at least. ;)
22:20 < SuperSeriousCat> You mean just egrep <regex>?
22:20 < toothe> that may be sufficient, actually...
22:23 < rr1993> ayecee, yeah well, its still a valid attack vector
22:23 < rr1993> and if shim didnt allow for on the fly adding of MOKs withouth a password
22:24 < rr1993> the attack vector could be mitigated
22:24 < ayecee> is that the convention for other bootloaders as well?
22:25 < ntd> "security unless you know command line" <--- imagine the slides
22:25 < ntd> anyway, msft fucked up secure boot
22:25 < ayecee> mind the language please
22:26 < Psi-Jack> ntd: Kindly mind the language.
22:26 < Psi-Jack> heh
22:27 < rr1993> ayecee, nope?
22:27 < rr1993> ayecee, Windows is quited sealed when using secureboot
22:27 < ayecee> i mean, prompting for a password
22:28 < ayecee> like, how is this normally addressed in other cases?
22:28 < rr1993> ayecee, you mean adding MOKs?
22:29 < rr1993> ayecee, or secure boot on its own?
22:29 < ayecee> whatever the problem is that prompting for a password would solve
22:29 < bonhoeffer> why doesn't grep find \d+ specifically cat my.txt | grep -ho "Regular \d" works but cat adp | grep -ho "Regular \d+" does not
22:30 < rr1993> Well shim is a way to use secureboot for linux, its like a man in the middle, Shim has a valid signing and therefor can be started by secureboot
22:30 < rr1993> Other systems just sign there own closed source kernel or bootloader
22:30 < rr1993> so there is no adding of MOKs
22:31 < ayecee> are there no other such shims?
22:31 < DrowningElysium> I am trying to install quota and need to change my fstab file, but this one is unconfigured. Anyone know how I can configure it?
22:31 < rr1993> Proberly yes, but shim is quite much used so i dont get how this is a security improvement
22:31 < DrowningElysium> Also I am using debian 9
22:33 < ayecee> i wonder if these other shims prompt for a password for a similar function
22:33 < ayecee> or if they have some other mechanism
22:34 < rr1993> ayecee, the only other alternative is preloader
22:35 < rr1993> ayecee, they seem to do the same as shim
22:35 < ayecee> who knows, maybe this is a completely unique problem
22:35 < ayecee> ah
22:41 < soreau> is there any software that makes a linux box with usb webcam 'simply' behave as an ip cam on the network?
22:41 < Dagmar> You should probably closely examine your definition of "ip cam"
22:43 < DrowningElysium> Could someone tell me how to have the root path be filled into the /etc/fstab on debian 9, currently the file says it is unconfigured
22:44 < Dagmar> What file says what?
22:44 < DrowningElysium> It says this https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/h12NpbvX/afbeelding.png
22:44 < soreau> Dagmar: something that can be used by zoneminder, where zoneminder is a the 'master server' and other machines on the network are used by $ip_camera_software
22:44 < Dagmar> DrowningElysium: Go back through the installer.  That file should never be empty
22:45 < DrowningElysium> I didn't use an installer :/
22:45 < DrowningElysium> It's a VPS server and well I can say put this installation on there
22:45 < Dagmar> soreau: You should then consult ZoneMinder's documentation to find out what *they* think is an "ip web cam"
22:45 < DrowningElysium> So there is something going wrong there
22:45 < Dagmar> DrowningElysium: If you were able to login and the system works, it's fine
22:45 < Dagmar> DrowningElysium: Otherwise, you should consult the support people for that VPS because they have failed
22:45 < DrowningElysium> Yeah the server works fine, but I need to put quota's on the drive
22:46 < soreau> Dagmar: I think you need to google what is an ip cam
22:46 < Dagmar> soreau: No, I build those kinds of things regularly.
22:46 < Dagmar> It's *not* as simple as "be an ip web cam"
22:46 < Dagmar> I also *use* ZoneMinder
22:46 < soreau> It should be though
22:46 < Dagmar> Good luck getting people to agree on a standard for serving video frames over IP
22:47 < ayecee> soreau: what video protocol does an ip cam use?
22:47 < ayecee> is there a particular network protocol? what port do they use?
22:48 < Dagmar> If you thought ZoneMinder was going to be as simple as ./configure && make && make install you're going to have a very long and unpleasant road ahead of you
22:48 < Dagmar> It's actually kind of a pain in the butt
22:48 < soreau> you guys are suggesting ip cameras do not work? or exist?
22:49 < rr1993> soreau, IP cam is some sort of device streaming some sort of data to some sort of source
22:49 < rr1993> be more specific
22:49 < rr1993> streaming to some sort of receiver*
22:49 < Dagmar> No, we're saying flat out that there's many dozens of video codecs, roughly 60,000 IPv4 ports, a half dozen video codecs that are actually amenable to being streamed live, and several dozen completely insane Chinese ip web cam manufacturers who sell hardware you should just never even consider using
22:50 < Dagmar> This is *not* a simple problem
22:50 < soreau> rr1993: I want a program that takes a local usb webcam and streams it via rtsp or any suitable protocol on port of choosing
22:50 < tds> vlc should be able to do that fine
22:50 < soreau> oh really
22:50 < Dagmar> Yeah, VLC can do that, and it'll readily stream to remote copies of VLC
22:50 < tds> well, depending on quite what you include in "any suitable protocol" :)
22:51 < Dagmar> I'm also carefully omitting any mention of the sh*tshow that is variant ovccams
22:51 < Dagmar> If you only paid $8 for your USB webcam and it doesn't work out of the box, just go ahead and set it on fire and buy a different one
22:52 < rr1993> Lol
22:53 < Dagmar> The $300 or so I've spent on bargain webcams over the years, I've found to be more than sufficient indication that it's not worth trying to work around a questionable one
22:53 < rr1993> soreau, well VLC indeed can do such things
22:53 < energizer> when using ^C to mean ctrl-c, what is the ^C notation from? is a character code or soemthing?
22:53 < Dagmar> energizer: Just a very old notation for pressing the control key while pressing another letter on the keyboard
22:53 < rr1993> soreau, an other way would be installing a webserver on the device and showing a png that is regenerated ever second or so
22:54 < energizer> Dagmar: i see
22:54 < Dagmar> _Very_ old
22:55 < mawk> how to reliably detect tampering with my suid binary ?
22:56 < mawk> suid is cleared on LD_PRELOAD & ptrace right ?
22:56 < Dagmar> Other way around
22:56 < soreau> having trouble convincing vlc to stream the webcam
22:57 < Dagmar> LD_PRELOAD is ignored for suid
22:57 < mawk> oh ok
22:57 < mawk> good
22:57 < Dagmar> ...and you're not allowed to ptrace a suid becuase it's no longer yours once it's running
22:57 < mawk> yeah
22:57 < Dagmar> Otherwise, yay injection
22:58 < mawk> also, signal mask is cleared I guess
22:58 < Dagmar> suid binaries have probably "enough" restrictions on them by now
22:58 < mawk> yeah
22:59 < Dagmar> During the 90's it was definitely an arms race
22:59 < mawk> I'm making a CTF challenge
22:59 < livebrain> soreau: depending on what you want to do you can always try the "motion" software, real easy to install
22:59 < Dagmar> Exploiting suid was just plain common
22:59 < mawk> the setup is you have a beggining sysadmin named Tim, he wants you to help him achieve some sysadmin task, and your goal is to hack him
22:59 < mawk> I provide the contester with a timviewer command that sends an executable to Tim and you watch him execute it
22:59 < soreau> livebrain: yea I've used motion before, pretty neat
23:00 < mawk> he will execute the binary like sudo -u nobody ./yourfile
23:00 < mawk> the trick is to insert bytes in the tty input queue to type a command in Tim's shell and get the flag
23:00 < Dagmar> MaekSo: Allow me then to suggest a couple of things as low-hanging fruit... Root cron job using rsync with ssh tunneling, and lacking --protect-args, and perhaps just for giggles on one machine change the EDITOR for crontab to something that doesn't prevent spawning subshells
23:00 < mawk> I use expect with a probabilistic delay between key strokes to make it look like a sloppy human is typing
23:01 < neoromantique> Guys, I have a question; I have one ip address on the server(and only one physical server); however I'd love to be able to route subdomains to different services running on differnet ports; how best can I achieve that?
23:01 < mawk> are they web services neoromantique ?
23:01 < mawk> then use nginx
23:01 < neoromantique> mawk: nope
23:01 < rr1993> neoromantique, dns doesnt do thing with ports
23:01 < mawk> you've got a single port like 22 and you want to dispatch to several ssh servers ?
23:01 < neoromantique> rr1993: I know
23:02 < mawk> otherwise, just assign one port to one service and you're done
23:02 < neoromantique> rr1993: for example I want to have jabber.services.domain.com
23:02 < neoromantique> but I don't want to be able to route to it from domain.com
23:02 < Dagmar> You won't be able to do it purely with DNS
23:02 < neoromantique> even though it's physially same machine
23:02 < mawk> then you need to see that with the jabber protocol itself
23:02 < neoromantique> mawk: I have over a dozen protocols I want to put this way
23:03 < mawk> then you've got no other choice
23:03 < mawk> check protocol by protocol
23:03 < neoromantique> Dagmar: I know, I was thinking vlans and route it internally with iptables
23:03 < Psi-Jack> Mmmmm... DNSFS, it's the newest thing besides MemcacheFS. :)
23:03 < mawk> that's not enough neoromantique
23:03 < Dagmar> You can't get IP traffic to just magically go on a specific VLAN based on a DNS name either
23:03 < SuperSeriousCat> Do /etc/hosts accept ports? If so that is an option
23:03 < mawk> no
23:03 < Dagmar> It ain't going to work the way you're wanting to do it
23:03 < mawk> where do you access the services from neoromantique ? the LAN ?
23:03 < Psi-Jack> SuperSeriousCat: No
23:04 < mawk> if it's from internet you can't do anything else than checking protocol by protocol
23:04 < neoromantique> mawk: WAN
23:04 < mawk> you need to extract some information from the application stream that will tell where to send the traffic
23:04 < mawk> for instance with HTTP it's the Host header
23:04 < mawk> sometimes you can't do it
23:05 < neoromantique> well, host header would always be present since I have nginx in front of it
23:05 < neoromantique> with proxy_pass
23:05 < mawk> Host is for HTTP
23:06 < neoromantique> mawk: doesn't enginx pass headers anyway? No matter the protocol?
23:06 < rr1993> neoromantique, i dont know jabber but how would you redirect traffic for jabber with a http server/procy
23:06 < rr1993> proxy
23:06 < mawk> no neoromantique , headers are a HTTP thing
23:06 < mawk> other protocols may have something similar but they're not HTTP
23:07 < neoromantique> nginx is unopionated
23:07 < neoromantique> it can act as a reverse proxy even for non-http things
23:07 < neoromantique> ngs
23:07 < Psi-Jack> un-WHAT?
23:08 < neoromantique> since 1.9.0
23:08 < neoromantique> just confirmed with docs
23:08 < neoromantique> http://nginx.org/en/docs/stream/ngx_stream_core_module.html
23:08 < mawk> if you want
23:08 < mawk> but then forget server_name
23:08 < ayjay_t> what's the modern replacement for virtual machines on linux?
23:08 < mawk> so your nginx is useless for what you want to do
23:08 < Psi-Jack> ayjay_t: Virtual Machines.
23:08 < mawk> virtual machines are modern ayjay_t
23:08 < mawk> but you can use containers
23:09 < Psi-Jack> Which are a type of Virtual Machine.
23:09 < neoromantique> mawk: well, nginx adds one level of abstraction that I can use perhaps
23:09 < ayjay_t> right containers
23:09 < ayjay_t> sure "modern equiv" then
23:09 < rr1993> ayjay_t, docker and such
23:09 < neoromantique> Psi-Jack: how containers are type of vm?
23:09 < Psi-Jack> ayjay_t: No.
23:09 < mawk> you can't make up for the absent data neoromantique
23:09 < mawk> nginx doesn't know that domain name
23:09 < Psi-Jack> neoromantique: They emulate machines, just not full hardware virtualization.
23:10 < mawk> it only knows the IP it's been reached on
23:10 < neoromantique> Psi-Jack: they're just bunch of cgroups rules, sharing same hw and same kernel
23:10 < neoromantique> don't see how it is similar to VM
23:10 < neoromantique> well, lxc at least
23:10 < neoromantique> mawk: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mR25prtn6R/
23:11 < neoromantique> ^ that'd work
23:11 < Psi-Jack> neoromantique: They get a virtual nic interface through a TAP interface, for example.
23:11 < neoromantique> Psi-Jack: well, calling them VM just because they have additional sw bridge is a bit long-shot, no?
23:11 < neoromantique> I could be wrong, I'm actually curious re: definition myself
23:12 < neoromantique> mawk: it would work the way it's configured in pastebin, but I'm looking for a cleaner solution perhaps
23:12 < neoromantique> since it looks a bit odd to me
23:13 < Psi-Jack> Containerization -- also called container-based virtualization and application containerization -- is an OS-level virtualization method for deploying and running distributed applications without launching an entire VM for each application.
23:13 < ayjay_t> so any strong opinions on lxc vs docker then, i'm about to take a dive
23:14 < Psi-Jack> Learn botgh.
23:14 < rr1993> ayjay_t, do note that containers have some specific disadvantages
23:14 < neoromantique> ayjay_t: lxc is better, docker is actually used; (at least that's what I see)
23:14 < rr1993> disadvantages that vms dont have
23:14 < neoromantique> rr1993: they do have advantages over VMs also, namely performance, esp. in IO
23:15 < mawk> that wouldn't work neoromantique
23:15 < rr1993> neoromantique, true
23:15 < mawk> where does that 12345 come from
23:15 < rr1993> so choose the right tool for the job
23:15 < mawk> that's not discriminating service by service from the url
23:15 < mawk> that's just a plain pipe between two ports
23:16 < mawk> ayjay_t: lxc is lower level, if you want to do a full blown vm-like that boots and all you can use that
23:16 < mawk> docker is at application level
23:16 < ayjay_t> ah yeah
23:16 < SuperSeriousCat> Dont know about LXC, but Docker got images pre made for basically anything you need. Dont need to manually create a bunch of stuff
23:16 < neoromantique> mawk: that works right now
23:16 < ayjay_t> i'm just trying to set up a parallel environment to run a -dev and i want -stable in my "not containered" environment
23:16 < SuperSeriousCat> Install, run and done for the most part
23:16 < mawk> it's not what you described neoromantique
23:16 < ayjay_t> just for software dev
23:16 < mawk> this is just a plain pipe
23:16 < Psi-Jack> There's plenty of LXC templates.
23:17 < neoromantique> mawk: and that is exactly what I need
23:17 < mawk> not a redirection from service1.example.com to some service and service2.example.com to another, protocol-agnostic
23:17 < SuperSeriousCat> Is there a lxc hub to browse?
23:17  * SuperSeriousCat googled
23:17 < Psi-Jack> Even a tool built-into the lxc packages that build containers based on various OS distributions with a simple command.
23:17 < mawk> if it is what you need you can just use iptables rules maybe neoromantique
23:17 < mawk> it's easier to setup
23:18 < SuperSeriousCat> Do LXC manage iptables rules automatically?
23:18 < ayjay_t> you guys think docker is a good solution if you're trying to double install two different versions of a program? one for dev one for production?
23:18 < mawk> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -d $public_ip -p tcp --dport 12345 -j DNAT --to-destination $destination_ip:12345
23:18 < Psi-Jack> SuperSeriousCat: No.
23:18 < mawk> probably ayjay_t
23:18 < neoromantique> mawk: the issue, as it was correctly mentioned here before is that I'd then have no way to route hosts on subdomain basis
23:18 < ayjay_t> nice
23:18 < neoromantique> it's not that I need to route port 12345 to somewhere:12345
23:18 < neoromantique> I need to route somewhere.domain.com:80 to domain.com:12345
23:19 < neoromantique> whilst making domain.com:12345 inacessible when requested directly
23:19 < mawk> if it's :80 nginx can do it
23:19 < mawk> if it's not, you can't
23:19 < Psi-Jack> neoromantique: You need a proxy.
23:19 < mawk> I don't see any mention of the host in your paste
23:19 < mawk> you're just piping a port to another
23:19 < mawk> not a host
23:19 < mawk> nginx can effectively do what you want with hostnames with a few protocols, like HTTP, HTTPS, IMAP
23:19 < mawk> but not all protocols on earth
23:20 < neoromantique> mawk: the paste was just example from their docs, showing that nginx doesn't really care about protocol in this case
23:20 < Psi-Jack> haproxy can do http, https, and tcp.
23:20 < mawk> because the example doesn't use the hostname
23:20 < mawk> as soon as you want to discriminate using the hostname you need a supported protocol
23:20 < neoromantique> mawk: I do use hostname currently, so I can vouch that it works
23:20 < Psi-Jack> ^
23:21 < rr1993> what is the advantage of using containers and when would i use it?
23:21 < mawk> it's very very light rr1993
23:21 < Psi-Jack> rr1993: None, and never.
23:21 < neoromantique> Psi-Jack: so main question would be, is there a better way to do it, or should I stick to using nginx/haproxy(they're similar in how they treat this)?
23:21 < mawk> and fast to setup if you've got a CoW fs for instance
23:21 < Psi-Jack> neoromantique: What is your problem? What is your end-goal? Specifics are required.
23:22 < mawk> his problem has got no general solution
23:22 < rr1993> mawk, more in a general aproach, like when would i like to use it... i see no use for it
23:22 < mawk> but he won't believe me
23:22 < rr1993> what would be the advantage of using them
23:22 < neoromantique> mawk: I don't believe you because it is already solved and working, I just think that it's ugly
23:22 < mawk> it's not solved anywhere because it's just impossible
23:23 < Psi-Jack> neoromantique: What is your problem? What is your end-goal? Specifics are required.
23:23 < mawk> you can't make a protocol agnostic reverse proxy that discriminates using the hostname
23:23 < Psi-Jack> ^
23:23 < Psi-Jack> This is 100% factual.
23:23 < mawk> if the protocol you want to proxy doesn't send the host somewhere in the flow, there is no way to know what the host was
23:23 < mawk> unless you've got several IP addresses
23:23 < Psi-Jack> And then that would be IP-based. ;)
23:24 < mawk> rr1993: I use them for isolation of programs, because they often require different distro version/different distros
23:24 < SuperSeriousCat> rr1993, for me the advantage is keeping the mono stuff etc away from my main system. Easy to save settings/data. Just copy a single folder and you got the exact same settings etc on the program/app/tool on any PC
23:25 < mawk> also for network testing rr1993 ; using my btrfs filesystem it takes three commands taking less than 1s total to setup my network lab
23:25 < mawk> setting up a router and N clients; with NAT connectivity
23:25 < rr1993> should i learn more about it?
23:25 < mawk> if it's hyped in your area of expertise maybe
23:26 < SuperSeriousCat> Depends on what you do. Do you have VMs doing specific tasks?
23:26 < rr1993> i manage linux webservers
23:26 < rr1993> so just plain webhosting
23:26 < rr1993> we didnt see any big avantage with containers here
23:26 < mawk> I give containers to friends I host on my server
23:27 < SuperSeriousCat> I moved 3 VMs into 1 PhotonOS Docker host and it works greate in my setup
23:28 < SuperSeriousCat> Easier and lighter to segregate than VMs and less overhead most(all?) of the time
23:28 < Psi-Jack> neoromantique: Times running out.
23:28 < neoromantique> mawk: Psi-Jack: okay I see what you mean now, all of the services I have set up so far are HTTP based, hence my stubborn confusion, I see how it wouldn't work for other arbitrary protocols
23:29 < Psi-Jack> Heh
23:29 < neoromantique> took a moment to check the docs of services running
23:29 < Psi-Jack> HTTP/1.1 has a mandatory requirement Host header, while HTTP/1.0, it was optional.
23:33 < Dagmar> Pro-tip: Most properly-configured web servers will just give you the middle finger for an HTTP/1.0 query
23:34 < Psi-Jack> Incorrect
23:34 < Dagmar> No, quite correct
23:34 < Psi-Jack> wget would fail to work, because it still uses http/1.0
23:34 < Psi-Jack> So, quite incorrect.
23:34 < Dagmar> Principle of least priviledge, as well as the query isn't going to be reliably solvable on a server with vhosts.
23:35 < Psi-Jack> Again, incorrect.
23:35 < Dagmar> Believe whatever fantasies you want
23:35 < Psi-Jack> I believe facts.
23:37 < SuperSeriousCat> That depends on what you mean with properly configured. wget got 1.1 support iirc
23:37 < rr1993> how does a server with vhost handle a request without a host header properly?
23:37 < Psi-Jack> wget seems to have finally gotten 1.1 support. :)
23:37 < Psi-Jack> rr1993: It revers to the default vhost entry.
23:37 < Psi-Jack> reverts*
23:37 < rr1993> Psi-Jack, so how does is it handle it _correct_
23:37 < rr1993> it cant
23:38 < Psi-Jack> The correct way is in fact for the server to provide the default.
23:38 < Psi-Jack> That's actually part of the spec. :)
23:40 < rr1993> Psi-Jack, well its correct according to the specs
23:40 < rr1993> but it still sucks :P
23:40 < Dagmar> Let's start with the fact that wget defaults to HTTP/1.1 and has for some time now
23:40 < Dagmar> Don't like it?  Not my problem
23:41 < Psi-Jack> That's why I have on all my webservers, a default that provides a default page basically stating it's a private server, for anything that tries to hit an unknown vhost entry (and thus, also doesn't provide a Host header).
23:42 < Dagmar> The "default" gets just turned off most of the time because the request isn't reasonably satisfiable, _and_ the user is probably up to something
23:42 < Dagmar> When it's _not_ turned off, it usually winds up revealing more about the webserver than the owner probably wants to give out
23:42 < Psi-Jack> "turned off?" heh.
23:42  * Psi-Jack rolls his eyes. 
23:42 < rr1993> Dagmar, interessting
23:43 < rr1993> Dagmar, is this a common technique to footprint a server or something?
23:43 < rr1993> just send a http/1.0 request
23:43 < Dagmar> Yeah
23:43 < Dagmar> A rather common misconfiguration leaves the default selection _with the default config_ as well
23:49 < rr1993> Dagmar, but what would it show besides the default apache or nginx page?
23:49 < rr1993> that doesnt really leak info right
23:50 < neoromantique> rr1993: it does leak nginx version if not forbidden
23:52 < ayecee> it shows someone wasn't paying attention
23:52 < rr1993> neoromantique, ah cool
23:56 < soreau> cool it works. FWIW, I used the command cvlc v4l2:///dev/video0 --sout '#transcode{vcodec=mp4v}:rtp{sdp=rtsp://localhost-ip:random-open-port/live.sdp}'
23:56 < soreau> Then I used ffmpeg as the source for it in zoneminder
--- Log closed Sun Apr 15 00:00:45 2018