--- Log opened Sun Apr 15 00:00:45 2018
00:04 < DrunkRhino> Sorry to keep harping on this, but I've still gotten mostly nothing but silence about this since I started asking around 6 hours ago. If anyone could have a look at https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/437790/mate-screensaver-seems-to-error-out-upon-wake and try to work out what exactly is going wrong here, or at the very least upvote it for visibility, I'd really appreciate it.
00:05 < ayecee> the way it's described makes me want to ignore it
00:06 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, why exactly?
00:06 < ayecee> i don't know
00:06 < ayecee> but it does
00:06 < DrunkRhino> Very helpful.
00:06 < ayecee> i think it's the entitlement it embodies
00:07 < ayecee> the "drop what you're doing and fix my problem" attitude
00:07 < Namarrgon> talk to the mate folks
00:07 < DrunkRhino> Ayecee, fucking excuse me?
00:07 < ayecee> i don't know how to parse that
00:08 < ayecee> was that an apology?
00:08 < DrunkRhino> This is not "drop what you're doing and fix my stuff" this is "I can't make heads or tails of why this isn't working, anyone have any ideas"?
00:08 < DrunkRhino> And that was the absolute LAST thing that was.
00:08 < ayecee> then why do i have that impression?
00:08 < ayecee> i think it was the part about getting nothing but silence for six whole hours
00:08 < ayecee> like, you're expecting this problem to be solved for you in that timeframe
00:09 < Klaus_Dieter> DrunkRhino: the post does the same thing to me like it seems to do to ayecee. I think it could benefit from a re-write it  was in the style described at http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
00:11 < DrunkRhino> Klaus_Dieter, ayecee, I'm not expecting it to be solved, but perhaps a "Maybe look at <X>" or "have a look at the manpage for <Y>" at the very least, y'know... something?
00:11 < DrunkRhino> Anything?
00:11 < ayecee> more entitlement
00:11 < ayecee> i deserve a response.
00:12 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, if you interpret it that way that's your damned problem
00:12 < ayecee> you are all very rude for not responding to me.
00:12 < ayecee> well, no, it's not my problem
00:12 < ayecee> that is, it is not a problem for me
00:13 < ayecee> i mean, obviously it's not a trivial problem, the kind that someone can look at and say "oh, just click the easy button"
00:13 < ayecee> or look at X, or read the manpage for Y
00:14 < moniker--> richard stallman likes to eat foot skin
00:14 < moniker--> lol
00:14 < ayecee> old meme
00:14 < moniker--> but wtf
00:14 < DrunkRhino> Look, I just am looking for /something/ Not for it to be fixed for me. Or that people are "rude" for not responding. I'd just prefer not to have made posts to have them languish for absolutely nothing and have to do all of this all over again after the threads get buried.
00:14 < ayecee> DrunkRhino: i'm explaining my perception to you, because you asked.
00:15 < moniker--> i never thought someone would just do it in public, has he got no shame?
00:15 < ayecee> DrunkRhino: that sounds like quite a burden for you.
00:17 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, fair enough. And not a burden, but it would seem that (at least on SE) things from relatively unknown posters get buried fast. Hence the repetitive asking to try and keep the things visible for long enough that someone might have an idea.
00:19 < Namarrgon> asking for "upvotes" is generally considered annoying, you have to understand that
00:19 < ayecee> it could be that the repetition is a negative. while forums sometimes get new people, mostly it's the same crowd each time. It may help to present it differently, or to indicate some progress you've made on your own.
00:19 < ayecee> yeah, that was very annoying.
00:19 < ayecee> sometimes presenting it differently may provide new insights.
00:20 < Zen_Clark> I am writing a PAM module mostly for fun. I am looking for suggestions for a simple and uncommon PAM-aware application/server that I use to test my authentication module without botching anything important.
00:21 < Klaus_Dieter> DrunkRhino: the foremost problem is not the repetition but how the question is framed and asked. Also getting an unrelated crowd to upvote defeats the purpose of voting for questions / issues and is considered cheating the system. I provided a link that may help you to ask your question differently.
00:21 < Klaus_Dieter> Zen_Clark: how about jenkins?
00:21 < Klaus_Dieter> Zen_Clark: that'll likely be horrible to integrate with pam though
00:22 < DrunkRhino> Klaus_Dieter, I'm aware of the latter, bit hence my pre-emptive apology for asking in the first place. I thought that was pretty clear that was the intent of that.
00:22 < Klaus_Dieter> ah sorry. you asked pam-aware..... proftpd is pam-aware I think.
00:22 < DrunkRhino> (Well, the repetiton, and the asking)
00:22 < ayecee> DrunkRhino: apologies don't really have much value if you go ahead and do the thing you're apologizing for anyways
00:23 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, true. It was a curteousy. Perfunctory.
00:23 < ayecee> i'm sorry for punching you, but *whack*
00:23 < Zen_Clark> I was thinking that an FTP server might be good. I'll see about getting proftpd installed. Thanks for the suggestion Klaus.
00:28 < DrunkRhino> Also, I'm not really sure how exactly I'm supposed to frame ( Mate session idles -> goes to screensaver -> mouse jiggle -> background shows -> screen cuts to black instead of going back to session ) other than how I already have, with the .confs and the ps commnands to back me up that yes, things are running on the machine they're supposed to and seems to be otherwise configured properly.
00:28 < ayecee> try describing the problem as you would to a brand new person who knows nothing about your problem
00:31 < ayecee> this often helps to uncover hidden assumptions that prevented the solution the first time around.
00:31 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, "'I've currently got an old x64 netbook hooked up to a Pi 2 running an XDMCP server to try and free up more of the resources on the netbook to process DRM'ed streaming video. While this setup is mostly working now, mate-screensaver seems to be having some issues returning to the session after waking the screensaver" I really, honestly have no idea how to condense that into a more concise description for someone with 0 knowledge
00:31 < DrunkRhino> f the setup.
00:31 < ayecee> okay, try it again without the attitude.
00:31 < ayecee> think, brand new person.
00:32 < DrunkRhino> Not attitude ayecee, that IS it. That's all she wrote.
00:32 < DrunkRhino> I meant that last bit at the end there.
00:32 < ayecee> well, try it anyways
00:32 < DrunkRhino> I /sincerely/ don't have a clue how else I could summarize my issue and setup more simply and concisely than that. I just don't.
00:33 < ayecee> without copying and pasting your own previous text, describe the problem fresh.
00:33 < ayecee> and without complaining about how it's a burden.
00:34 < DrunkRhino> Ayecee, again, you're misinterpreting me, this is not "a burden". "Irritation"? Sure. "Burden"? No.
00:34 < ayecee> okay, without the irritation then
00:35 < ayecee> no one wants to work with someone who's already irate.
00:36 < ayecee> a lot of already get enough of that at our day jobs ;)
00:37 < DrunkRhino> Ayecee, again, "irate" is strong. But anyway, I suppose in lieu of trying to keep it as simple and concise as possible, I'll include everything that comes to mind even if it doesn't seem 100% relevant.
00:39 < ayecee> good idea. sometimes something useful can be overlooked.
00:40 < ayecee> pretend no one here knows about your problem, because honestly, they probably haven't read it.
00:41 < DrunkRhino> Ayecee, that's also why I'd posted the links, since I'd put down everything (that I believe) is relevant in there. Not to mention IRC can be a little hard to follow.
00:42 < rr1993> is this discussion still on
00:42 < ayecee> yeah, i understand why you did that. however, i hope you can appreciate why that approach isn't working now.
00:42 < ||JD||> rr1993: yeah but ayecee and DrunkRhino are now friends
00:42 < ||JD||>  * love is in the air *
00:43 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, I do, I don't necessarily "appreciate" or even agree with the why, but I do understand it.
00:43 < ayecee> when the moon hits your eye like a big piece of pie
00:43 < rr1993> ah thats a good thing
00:43 < sauvin> o/~ dat's a moray.... o/~
00:43 < ayecee> air quotes probably aren't helping either
00:43  * DrunkRhino shakes fist at ayecee and grumbles while pulling up the song
00:44 < ayecee> heh
00:48 < snugger> Hello
00:49 < SuperSeriousCat> Is it me you are looking for?
00:50 < rr1993> 👋
00:51 < sauvin> o/~ I can see it in your eyes... o/~
00:51 < rr1993> is there money to be made in linux programming?
00:52 < rr1993> low level stuff, like embedded systems and such
00:52 < ayecee> yes
00:52 < rr1993> as side gig?
00:52 < ayecee> though it's a relatively small field
00:53 < ayecee> it'd be hard to do it as a side gig unless you already had a lot of experience in the field
00:53 < rr1993> because of experience or connections?
00:53 < snugger> I've recently started using this text editor called JOE in replacement of nano. It's really nice having more screen space
00:54 < snugger> e.g. doesn't show the commands at bottom of termimal
00:54 < rr1993> try vim
00:54 < snugger> what text editor do you prefer?
00:54 < ayecee> those, and because the size of the field. without much experience, you'd likely be doing work locally at first
00:54 < snugger> rr1993: I have. Seems really nice
00:54 < rr1993> is it hard to become a self taught embedded developer you think?
00:55 < ayecee> i don't think so
00:55 < rr1993> snugger: it really is once you get the hang of it
00:55 < ayecee> there's never been an easier time to get into it, with raspi and all that.
00:55 < rr1993> yeah but its all C at the end of the day right
00:56 < DrunkRhino> ayecee: Ok, so I've got an old netbook (8-9y) that while still capable of handling DRM'ed streaming video, it doesn't play it particularly smoothly. To compensate for that I've got my Rasperry Pi 2 set up running an XDMCP server to lighten the load on the netbook. Both of these run Arch, LightDM, and MATE. Everything seems to function well enough except for the fact that after mate-screensaver activates/locks, attempting to get back in
00:56 < DrunkRhino>  the session results in the background showing, followed by the screen flashing back to black. The only errors that mate-screensaver 2>&~/err.log shows are that it failed to load the i915 driver and "failed to open drm device" and that there's "no such file or directory". My gut says that the fix might be to add i915 to the modules in the pi's mkinitcpio.conf and rebuild, but I'd rather not just fly by the seat of my pants here and hav
00:56 < DrunkRhino> to bring down the pi (which is also running the pi-hole-server package from the AUR, and in addition to the DNS server it's also handing out DHCP leases for the network).
00:56 < ayecee> okay, not reading that.
00:56 < ayecee> that's just rude.
00:56 < snugger> lol
00:56 < Loshki> rr1993: C/C++ mostly, I gather.
00:56 < rr1993> i dont like c++
00:56 < ayecee> DrunkRhino: is that honestly how you'd tell a new person about your problem?
00:57 < snugger> C++ is too complex for a brainlet like me
00:57 < rr1993> i really have tried liking it but i dont
00:57 < snugger> I prefer C, Python and Go :P
00:57 < rr1993> C, python and bash :P
00:57 < ayecee> rr1993: for embedded work you have to be a lot more aware of the hardware. you'll be looking at chip datasheets and programming device registers.
00:57 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, no, the way I would is how I described it in the linked threads and questions, but you said to start from scratch, so I did.
00:57 < rr1993> ayecee: yeah well i did it for a couple of months but i dropped out of college
00:58 < rr1993> so stopped doing it but i still like it however
00:58 < rr1993> but im a sysadmin now, but i really like low level programming too
00:58 < ayecee> DrunkRhino: no, i said describe it like you would to someone new who did not know your problem.
00:58 < rr1993> so maybe as side gig
00:58 < ayecee> DrunkRhino: but if you want to keep being obtuse about this, that's fine. i'm going to tune you out.
00:58 < DrunkRhino> ayecee, fine by me.
00:58 < snugger> Why is it that the monstrosity that is GNOME is so up to date with technologies? It's pretty much the only DE that implements wayland stable
01:00 < SuperSeriousCat> It is also the only DE that REQUIRE systemd iirc
01:00 < snugger> It requires it? I thought it was optional
01:00 < snugger> That's terrible
01:00 < snugger> Not just because "hurr durr systemd bloat" but no DE should require a specific godamn init system
01:00 < SuperSeriousCat> Probably some hack which require a lot of work available
01:02 < ayecee> rr1993: it would help to have it as a hobby first. if you had some projects to show, it would be easier to entice potential clients.
01:03 < leviyatan> I don't know if I've understood this correctly but is the problem with systemd more like an ideologic one? Like being afraid that if something controls the system as much as systemd does, it could easily cause problems in future?
01:03 < rr1993> ayecee: yeah i never know cool projects to build
01:03 < ayecee> that's a barrier alright. nice thing about doing it fulltime is that someone else gives you the projects
01:04 < ayecee> leviyatan: yeah, more or less
01:04 < rr1993> yeah and you get the hardware
01:04 < rr1993> and some money too
01:04 < rr1993> hoobys tend to cost money, but i will look into a nice starting project
01:05 < snugger> I dislike systemd because it does more than an init system traditionally is supposed to
01:05 < leviyatan> ah, okay. Thanks
01:05 < snugger> Other than that it's pretty good
01:05 < snugger> Much more secure than something like SysV
01:05 < ayecee> i can often think of little projects, but they always take more effort than i want to put into it.
01:05 < ayecee> that doesn't stop the true hobbyist though.
01:06 < dviola> snugger: systemd is not a single binary that does everything
01:07 < rr1993> ayecee: what kind of projects :)?
01:08 < ayecee> wireless doorbell. bluetooth bracelet that vibrates when you have a call. automated alcohol still.
01:09 < diogenese> how automated?
01:09 < ayecee> put fermented stuff in and walk away
01:09 < ayecee> the idea was to have it completely sealed as well to avoid explosion hazard
01:10 < ayecee> which, now that i think about it, would probably benefit from a nitrogen flush too.
01:10 < diogenese> was picturing a little robot that brings you the finished product on a serving tray
01:10 < ayecee> heh
01:10 < rr1993> those qre quite cool
01:11 < ayecee> yeah, well, those were probably my coolest examples, like a movie trailer. the rest aren't as good :)
01:12 < ayecee> would be neat to build one of those reprap 3d printers, but scaled up so it could print car body pieces.
01:13 < rr1993> who wants a plastic car
01:13 < rr1993> imagine spilling gasoline
01:13 < ayecee> body pieces are pretty much plastic already.
01:14 < rr1993> really?
01:14 < rr1993> i still have some sort of alloy i gues
01:14 < rr1993> guess
01:14 < ayecee> there's a lot of metal pieces too, but the trim is plastic
01:14 < ayecee> also pricey to replace
01:17 < dnscat> Is it possible specify which network interface that a certain binary uses?
01:17 < dnscat> i.e.: google-chrome uses eth1
01:18 < esselfe> What is the best way to generate all prime numbers? gcrypt?
01:18 < Psi-Jack> "best" is always opinionated.
01:18 < rr1993> dnscat: why do you want such thing
01:18 < ayecee> heh. all prime numbers.
01:18 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: All of them! NOW! In 5 seconds or less!
01:18 < Psi-Jack> :)
01:18 < diogenese> stacked neatly
01:18 < dnscat> rr1993: perhaps an application ona  server is firewalled and only accepts connections from a tethered interface's subnet
01:18 < sauvin> How many primes do you want?
01:19 < esselfe> I've been able to generate them up to 30000 in 25 minutes running on a 1.66GHz
01:19 < snugger> Is there a good general discussion forum for Linux?
01:19 < esselfe> all of them (64bit) so some 18'000'000'000'000'000
01:19 < ayecee> esselfe: that seems awfully slow. how were you doing it?
01:19 < Psi-Jack> snugger: Welcome to ##linux
01:19 < snugger> These aren't forums though lol
01:19 < rr1993> route traffic to that server over that interface
01:19 < sauvin> Only 30 000? How the hell are you generating them? With an adding machine!?
01:19 < rr1993> with route add i guess
01:19 < snugger> Linux linuxquestions but general discussion
01:20 < esselfe> in a while loop with modulus to dump the even and the fives
01:20 < ayecee> in what, bash?
01:20 < Psi-Jack> snugger: Oh. Forums? https://forum.linux-help.org/
01:20 < esselfe> and iterating the whole number below the current one
01:20 < sauvin> The Sieve of Erathosthenes would be craploads faster.
01:21 < ayecee> indeed, but imagine the 2^64 bit array you'd need for it.
01:21 < sauvin> I didn't say it'd be cheap in terms of memory.
01:21 < esselfe> here http://termbin.com/33md
01:22 < sauvin> o.O
01:22 < ayecee> esselfe: suffice it to say that finding all primes in 64-bit space is not currently practical.
01:22 < sauvin> All that just to find some primes?
01:22 < esselfe> yes
01:22 < rr1993> why the sleep
01:22 < esselfe> just so the cpu doesn't hang like it was doing
01:23 < snugger> Do people still use Slackware these days?
01:23 < diogenese> yes
01:23 < ayecee> some people do, yes
01:23 < uplime> my buddy does
01:23 < ayecee> esselfe: it shouldn't hang for this trivial code
01:23 < dnscat> looks like network namespaces is what I want
01:23 < snugger> I remember dependency management being a headache
01:24 < esselfe> ayecee: ok, so I'll take it off and also replace gettimeofday with time() for short, that wasn't smart
01:24 < ayecee> why use the time at all?
01:25 < esselfe> I wanted to know for how long the program was running... I was planning to let run at night
01:25 < ayecee> all the printing here is taking more time than finding the primes does
01:25 < esselfe> you mean I could put them in a file instead?
01:25 < Psi-Jack> esselfe: There's this utility called "time" which you could do that with.
01:25 < esselfe> thanks
01:26 < ayecee> esselfe: no. calculating the time, formatting the time string, and printing the time string takes more time than finding the primes in your program.
01:26 < ayecee> sending it to a file wouldn't change that.
01:27 < esselfe> alright, I dump the timing code
01:27 < sauvin> Except that writing to a file might be a tad faster.
01:27 < sauvin> Printing to screen can be unbelievably slow.,
01:27 < ayecee> i suppose
01:27 < ayecee> esselfe: one optimization to consider is to only test a number against primes you've already discovered
01:28 < ayecee> and only primes up to the square root of your number
01:28 < esselfe> I see
01:29  * sauvin has the command 'primes'
01:30 < ayecee> oh yeah
01:30 < ayecee> that's a lot easier, but less educational :)
01:30 < sauvin> It is, in fact, a perl script.
01:31 < esselfe> can I see?
01:31 < sauvin> esselfe, what distro you on?
01:31 < esselfe> openSUSE
01:31 < sauvin> Hrm, might not be in your repos.
01:31 < sauvin> Moment.
01:32 < Psi-Jack> Ohhhh, it might be.
01:32 < Psi-Jack> If not directly then in 3rd party repos possibily which are easilly worked in openSUSE.
01:32 < ayecee> i don't think the one in the bsdgames package is perl
01:32 < sauvin> http://termbin.com/7y1x
01:33 < esselfe> oh ghc-primes in yast
01:33 < sauvin> ghc, iirc, is Haskell. Not easy to learn.
01:34 < esselfe> oh man this is way faster!
01:34 < sauvin> Yup.
01:39 < esselfe> thanks all, gtg
01:41 < sauvin> This is Linux. Fear us; our name is Legion... or maybe it's just "Tim Toady".
01:41 < diogenese> the numbers keep growing
01:45  * Psi-Jack looks to devc`karate 
01:46 < devc`karate> :)
01:55 < velix> Wooooow: https://github.com/shellinabox/shellinabox
01:57 < ayecee> step one: cut a hole in the box
01:59 < velix> ayecee: why so negative :D
02:00 < velix> Maybe a good unkown user will log in and fix all your bugs.
02:01 < mwd> he might even add some news ones
02:01 < velix> Why is everyone such negativr these days.
02:02 < ayecee> because of something you did
02:02 < mwd> someone's been substituting decaf
02:03 < uplime> I used to be positive, but then I took an arrow to the knee
02:03 < compdoc> velix is so mean
02:04 < velix> Meh... I'm switching to #windows ... my government is paying them more than $300,000 for licensing - they're happier :D
02:05 < velix> pardon, I missed some zeros: $300,000,000
02:05 < mwd> enjoy your telemetry
02:05 < velix> mwd: Microsoft can't read it, it's in German :)))
02:05 < velix> Oh my, I'm trolling, sorry. Just woke up and I'm too lazy to make a coffee.
02:06 < mwd> obfuscation does not work that way!
02:06  * mwd swaps velix's stash for decaf
02:06 < velix> mwd: wait, let me translate this
02:06 < velix> mwd: :D
02:07 < velix> mwd: A friend of mine can only take decaf after 3 pm. Otherwise he can't sleep in the night.
02:07 < velix> oh damn
02:07 < velix> BEFORE 3pm
02:07 < ayecee> lightweight
02:07 < kurahaupo> velix: looks like an interesting project.
02:07 < mwd> yep some are sensitive
02:08 < velix> kurahaupo: But ayecee is right... Might be a security problem.
02:08 < velix> Okay, BRB. Coffee for real.
02:08 < ayecee> wasn't talking about security. was making reference to the "dick in a box" video.
02:08 < mwd> but its past 3pm!
02:08 < mwd> on the other hand it's also before 3pm
02:08  * mwd :/
02:09 < velix> ayecee: ooooooooh
02:09 < velix> It is 02:09 am here.
02:25 < mawk> on a side note hexnewbie duping /dev/tty to stdin/stdout/stderr breaks tmux
02:25 < mawk> which is strange, I'm gonna report the bug if I don't forget it
02:34 < b4udv8> v
02:36 < roygbiv> i created a filesystem and mounted it but how do i make it permanent so it mounts again after a reboot? thanks
02:37 < mawk> in /etc/fstab
02:37 < applecrumble> Anyone know a good pdf editing tool? for forms
02:37 < roygbiv> mawk: do i just edit the file or should i run some command? and thanks for the help
02:38 < roygbiv> i’ve used other unixes a lot but i’m pretty new to linux. seems like there’s a lot of different ways to do the same thing sometimes
02:38 < dviola> applecrumble: LibreOffice Draw can edit PDF
02:45 < dannylee> hi
02:50 < sauvin> roygbiv, how do you make mounts permanent in other unices?
02:51 < roygbiv> sauvin: well it varies depending on the flavor
02:51 < sauvin> And?
02:52 < roygbiv> sauvin: you want me to give an example? i’m a bit confused. sorry
02:52 < sauvin> Trying to get you to see something.
02:53 < roygbiv> sauvin: man i’ve been working all weekend long. maybe subtlety is not my speciality at this point ;)
02:53 < sauvin> Still not seeing any examples.
02:53 < roygbiv> well for example on AIX you give it a command line parameter to the “mkfs” command to make it a permanent mount
02:54 < roygbiv> err “crfs” that is. oops
02:54 < sauvin> One presumes that you don't want to mkfs on each boot.
02:54 < velix> applecrumble: Perhaps too late (since it's already PDF), but if you create a form in PDF, the PDF is fillable.
02:54 < roygbiv> sauvin: correct
02:54 < roygbiv> i believe i used nearly that same language in my question
02:54 < sauvin> Do none of your other brands of *nix make use of /etc/fstab?
02:55 < roygbiv> sauvin: well sure they do
02:55  * sauvin has never actively mounted anything in ANY other OS and honestly doesn't know
02:55 < sauvin> That's where I do my "automatically mount this on boot": fstab.
02:56 < roygbiv> well yes someone helped me there by letting me know of /etc/fstab but i wasn’t sure if i should edit that file directly or use some command to take care of it for me
03:01 < The_Mec>  all i'm getting is errors when i try to compile and install Libstdc++ https://pastebin.com/LRnNBDpU
03:02 < sauvin> roygbiv, I don't know of any tool for it. I've always just edited by hand.
03:02 < roygbiv> sauvin: good enough! thank you. i’ll go with that too
03:17 < stevendale> Hey
03:17 < matsaman> hi
03:22 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: systemd timer.. that's right.. I'll reseaarch that.
03:22 < francute> I'm using zsh, also with RVM. I've used to show in my prompt which ruby version i was using in some ruby project folder, and can't make it work now
03:23 < matsaman> what's it doing instead now?
03:23 < francute> I think... i can solve it now.. sorry
03:23 < francute> $(~/.rvm/bin/rvm-prompt)
03:24 < francute> This is printing now when i put it on terminal
03:24 < francute> And that wasn't working
03:24 < matsaman> gj
03:24 < francute> So... I think i can fix it now
03:24 < francute> Sorry :$
03:24 < velix> How can I update "whereis" db ?
03:24 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Heh.
03:25 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: I've been playing with cloud-init. Proxmox VE just recently started adding it in. :D
03:26 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Yeah I don't have that elaborate of a setup :P
03:27 < Psi-Jack> heh
03:27 < Psi-Jack> I couldn't get cloud-init working on Debian 8 though. Apparently the cloud-init data that PVE currently sets up needs 0.7.9, minimum.
03:27  * dviola uses a systemd timer as an alarm clock: https://gist.github.com/diegoviola/c6ba3eb1d914e883b1085d38e59b6e30
03:28 < dogbert_2> heh...playing around with armbian on a Libre Computer SBC AML-S905X-CC (Le Potato) (quad core ARM Cortex-A53 @ 1.512GHz, 1GB DDR3, Ethernet, Wireless, 4xUSB 2.0, RCA, HDMI, etc)
03:29 < francute> If i put for example an if-else in PS1 variable, that "code" should be execute everytime i execute anything in terminal?
03:29 < francute> executed'
03:30 < ||JD||> velix: I don't think whereis use a db, you can updatedb and then locate
03:30 < dell00> francute: PS1 variable is only for display.
03:30 < velix> ||JD||: yeah, whereis found a link, I wasn't aware of ;)
03:30 < dell00> I don't think you can execute commands in a PS1 variable.
03:31 < matsaman> updatedb runs a find, IIRC, you could just run a 'find' if you wanted
03:32 < francute> dell00: Yup, but for example, if i want to display in my propmt the string "hello world" if i'm in an specific folder? and a different string in every other folder?
03:33 < francute> I don't think that's not possible
03:34 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: are you able to provide a copy of the systemd.timer and the systemd.service file for your borgbackup?
03:36 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: btw, if you want to get the log output.. just have to redirect the borg command to 2>> logfile
03:38 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Well, mine would be the borgmatic stuff, but sure, if it gives you some ideas. :)
03:39 < Dominian> thanks
03:39 < Dominian> I think there's actually a systemd exampls in the docs
03:39 < francute> dell00: Maybe this "PROMPT_COMMAND" variable helps
03:40 < matsaman> could never get that to do what I wanted it to, ended up using backticks in my PS1
03:41 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: https://gist.github.com/erenfro/912e3a58cce4f5b0ea73e3dd208abaf9
03:42 < Dominian> thanks
03:42 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: yeah that' swhat I thought.. really basic... easy to adapt
03:43 < Psi-Jack> Yep.
03:43 < Psi-Jack> You could implement the EnvironmentFile stuff in to setup BORG_REPO and such if desired. ;)
03:45 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Not sure athat would be needed.. can move the backup.sh file I'm using to /usr/sbin and reference it in the systemd file
03:45 < Psi-Jack> Yep.
03:45 < Dominian> I'll have to figure out how to get it to email me the log
03:46 < Psi-Jack> You could probably utilize journalctl at the end of said script to grab it all and email that. :)
03:47 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: yeah.. I guess I'll setup the 'service' then do a systemctl start on it.. let it run.. then check the journalctl output
03:47 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I haven't done much with systemd in this aspect so this is all new to me
03:47 < Psi-Jack> Well, good! LEarning something new and useful. :)
03:49 < kurahaupo> Dominian: please, if you're putting a program into a *bin directory (so it's in PATH), remove the .sh suffix.
03:50 < Psi-Jack> That too.
03:50 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Or, do-away with the script and incorporate the whole thing into ExecStart.
03:52 < Dominian> kurahaupo: yeah.. I know
03:52 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: nah.. rather use the script
03:53 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: creating the service file and the timer is easy enough.. I'll sort out the log information shortly :)
03:54 < francute> matsaman: how? backticks aren't for interpolation?
03:54 < matsaman> francute: how what?
03:55 < francute> matsaman: If you want a conditional display on PS1, how do you do that?
03:55 < matsaman> I've got export PS1='`\nbash\nstuff\here`'
03:56 < matsaman> I wanted to use PROMPT_COMMAND, but it just wasn't dynamic enough, IIRC, it wasn't doing what I wanted it to
03:56 < francute> I was thinking PROMPT_COMMAND was related to that. Like setting it will make bash to evaluate PS1 everytime.
03:56 < matsaman> yeah, I think it can work for many situations
03:57 < matsaman> it was just being a huge PITA for whatever I was doing
03:57 < matsaman> I think I only wanted the exit code of the last command
03:57 < matsaman> or rather I wanted to change output based on the exit status of the previous command
04:00 < aaro> matsaman, ever thought of trying zsh? make that kind of things very easy
04:01 < francute> Well, i'm trying to do that on zsh, aaro, and don't know very well how
04:01 < matsaman> aaro: yes, but then I saw its config file syntax, and never bothered thinking about it again
04:02 < matsaman> that was also before I realized all things that have names starting with 'z' or 'x' are bound to be terrible, also =)
04:02 < matsaman> "OMG it's so cool it starts with z!"
04:02 < francute> Woot
04:03 < matsaman> beyond that, that's like the one complicated/arcane thing I've done with bash in more than a decade
04:03 < matsaman> so whatevs
04:03 < matsaman> 200% of the time I use regular shell things that bash does just as I want
04:05 < aaro> well you always got the arch wiki which gives some examples for things like that, just search for arch prompt, just my 2 cents
04:09 < matsaman> I think PROMPT_COMMAND might've gotten crapt upon by virtualenv's prompt changes
04:09 < matsaman> & sure, virtualenv is no prize, but it also means PROMPT_COMMAND wasn't as low level as I needed/wanted
04:14 < CodeBug> why prompt command
04:17 < CodeBug> ?
04:17 < matsaman> CodeBug: hrmm?
04:19 < CodeBug> just curious why you think it got crapted on
04:20 < matsaman> by virtualenv?
04:20 < CodeBug> yeah
04:20 < CodeBug> I dont use virtualenv
04:20 < matsaman> dunno, I didn't want to learn about virtualenv's code
04:20 < matsaman> probably because it's higher than virtualenv used
04:20 < CodeBug> lol me either
04:20 < matsaman> wasn't interpreted in time
04:24 < velix> Anyone with an idea, why this doesn't work? Should be "demostr.": echo "demostraße" | sed 's/\([Ss]tr\)a\(s+|ß\)e/\1\./g'
04:27  * velix is switching to #regex
04:28 < CodeBug> but why are you using a special character in demostra
04:29 < CodeBug> ??
04:32 < sauvin> CodeBug, that's not a "special character".
04:33 < CodeBug> oh i see the b type character as special on my screen haha
04:33 < CodeBug> sorry
04:33 < sauvin> It's not a B, either. It's a double S.
04:33 < CodeBug> sorry
04:33 < sauvin> It's often written in other languages as "demostrasse".
04:36 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: you still here?
04:38 < Psi-Jack> Yep
04:38 < Psi-Jack> Looking into Gitea to possibly replace Gogs.
04:39 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: you were meantioning I could use: journalctl -u borgbackup.service to email the logs.. any hints?
04:40 < Dominian> I'm having a difficult time finding documentation explaining how you can do it
04:40 < Psi-Jack> journalctl --since "2015-06-26 23:15:00" --until "2015-06-26 23:20:00" -u borgbackup.service
04:41 < Psi-Jack> You could, in your script, trap the start time, and the end time, for the purpose of that.
04:41 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Supposedly there's ways to do 'onfailure' etc
04:41 < Dominian> there's got to be a way to email the output from that run only
04:41 < Psi-Jack> OnFailure would be if the return code is non-zero.
04:41 < Dominian> without going nuts
04:41 < Dominian> aye
04:41 < Dominian> I want it to eamil me nor matter what
04:42 < Dominian> going to try and setup the timer to do two backups.. one in afternoon, one at night
04:42 < Psi-Jack> So, in your borg script, trap the start time in the format above, at the end of the run, use that to extract journalctl for the entire run from start to end and export that to a file and mailx it.
04:43 < Psi-Jack> Make sense?
04:43 < NoirX> hello
04:44 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: it does..
04:44 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I',m going to keep researching
04:44 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: i also need to read up on timers to figureo ut how to run at midnight and again at 12PM
04:44 < Psi-Jack> Hehehe
04:44 < Psi-Jack> Understanding timing concepts of SystemD is a bit fun.
04:45 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: it's a pain
04:45 < Psi-Jack> It's great once you understand it though.
04:45  * Dominian nods
04:47 < CodeBug> hrm.
04:48 < CodeBug> Timing concepts are a pain in the ass.
05:06 < saltystew> how do you guys pronounce 'sudo'? su-do or su-doe?
05:07 < jimm> soo soo soodeeoooh
05:07 < jimm> (but only if you're phil collins)
05:07 < kurahaupo> Soo doo. But for me, "do" and "due" are NOT homophones
05:08 < saltystew> I dunno how you're pronouncing any of those lmao
05:08 < r0> i pronounce as "sudu"
05:08 < kurahaupo> (/dū/ and /djū/ respectively)
05:08 < jimm> I hear it in my head as sooooodoooooooo
05:08 < saltystew> I've always said su-due but I've recently heard su-doe, doe like female deer
05:08 < kurahaupo> Rhymes with Voodoo
05:09 < r0> soodoo
05:09 < r0> suuduu
05:09 < r0> but shorter
05:09 < kurahaupo>  /sūdū/
05:09 < saltystew> soodoo is definitely not suuduu
05:09 < r0> yep, like voodoo, but shorter
05:09 < jimm> sounds like a moovee song
05:09 < r0> i'm portuguese, so for me U is really U
05:10 < kurahaupo> r0: Voodoo is already pretty short for me.
05:11 < r0> a spaniard would pronounce the same way probably...
05:11 < r0> nah, in voodoo you pronounce a long U sound...
05:12 < r0> but... i presume "sudo" doesn't really care about how we say it lol
05:12 < kurahaupo> when you make a mistake and damage your system it's pronounced Sue d'Oh
05:14 < jimm> Mister Sudo, I presume?
05:16 < jimm> I look at it as how you pronounce the individual pieces: how do you prounounce su? and, in this: how do you pronounce for i in *; do echo foo$i; done
05:16 < CodeBug> Linux hates me
05:17 < jimm> I sense a problem nearby
05:18 < jimm> CodeBug, what has you say that?
05:18 < jimm> oops be rioght back
05:19  * sauvin burpeth lustily
05:20 < CodeBug> Idk its being a pain..long story
05:21 < sauvin> Of course it's being a pain, silly! It's a COMPUTER!
05:24 < rypervenche> saltystew: I pronounce it "su-doe" personally, (like pseudo), but I know it's supposed to be "su-du". I suppose it's the same thing with "gif". I say it the "wrong way", but the more populer/socially acceptable way.
05:24 < stevendale> Hey :)
05:25 < konimex> wait, "su-du"?
05:25 < konimex> really?
05:26 < stevendale> Got Debian Stable working with Openbox, lxpanel and network manager applet :)
05:26 < stevendale> Feeling good :) Much faster than XP...
05:26 < jimm> well you can have a socially acceptable way when you have a population that gets together in person :)
05:27 < stevendale> I even got IOMMU working, and Virtualbox installed from Stretch backports, so I don't have to leave my games behind, and I added a grub boot flag and fixed the CPU governor, as well as the brightness keys
05:28 < rypervenche> konimex: Stands for "superuser do"
05:28 < stevendale> CPU~Dual core Intel Core i5-3340M (-HT-MCP-) speed/max~1200/2701 MHz Kernel~4.9.0-6-amd64 x86_64 Up~12 min Mem~249.9/3922.0MB HDD~382.2GB(1.8% used) Procs~151 Client~HexChat 2.12.4 inxi~2.3.5
05:28 < ||JD||> go testing for desktop, stable = software from 1995
05:28 < sauvin> sudo --please shut --the-hell --up
05:29 < Disconsented> sudo no
05:29 < stevendale> sudo killall --user root
05:30 < stevendale> CPU sitting at 54.0 Celsius
05:31 < ||JD||> cuz stock fan is garbage
05:33 < saltystew> rypervenche, gotcha, I also pronounce gif the right way with a hard G, though I say nome instead of gnome when
05:33 < saltystew> talking about gnome
05:38 < CodeBug> Gnome isn't baed
05:38 < CodeBug> bad
05:38 < jimm> jnome?
05:39 < sauvin> Gnome is an abomination.
05:40 < jimm> abominations are explosive countries
05:42 < CodeBug> lol seriously?
05:42  * CodeBug uses KDE
05:42  * CodeBug well Debian
05:45 < stevendale> Openbox is pretty fast :)
05:45 < saltystew> I use i3, I was just using it as an example of dumb names
05:47 < stevendale> I like having the functionality of a full DE, without any of the bloat... Mine's less bloated than LXDE as I have openbox + lxpanel, but I disabled the Lxpanel menu and app shortcuts, and use the right click desktop menu, and obmenu to configure it
05:49 < Aph3x-WL> saltystew: >I also pronounce gif the right way with a hard G
05:49 < Aph3x-WL> no, it's a soft G
05:49 < pnbeast> I was really disappointed by Openbox's XML config.  Why?
05:50 < saltystew> Aph3x-WL, it's spelled gif for a reason, hard g
05:50 < Aph3x-WL> saltystew: the creator himself said it was a soft G and i think he would know
05:51 < well_laid_lawn>  go get gif
05:51 < ||JD||> pnbeast: because XML sucks and nobody uses it anymore?
05:51 < saltystew> Aph3x-WL, as if that matters, we don't care about stallman wanting things using gnu to be called gnu/linux
05:52 < stevendale> pnbeast, I don't like the XML config myself, that's why I use obmenu/obconf o/
05:52 < pnbeast> ||JD||, sorry, I wrote unclearly - yes.  I meant "why would you use XML for that"
05:52 < CodeBug> see how come i cannot backup my Ubuntu..
05:52 < CodeBug> its bitching about the config file
05:53 < pnbeast> stevendale, yep, I saw your post and just started looking into obmenu.
05:54 < ||JD||> I always thought XML creator should be lapidated in a public place
05:56 < pnbeast> I appreciate a good troll, so I have no beef with the inventor.  The consumers, OTOH...
05:57 < sssilver> hey guys, I need a mechanism for restarting a certain process whenever its binary is updated. What would be the best way to accomplish this?
05:57 < iodev> stevendale: I think a tilling WM is simpler
05:58 < iodev> sssilver: a systemd unit?
05:58 < sssilver> there's `entr`, but it doesn't seem to work on my particular Debian very well
06:00 < sssilver> iodev: mmm so I would need to spin up systemd in my Docker container; that seems a bit too difficult
06:00 < sssilver> I basically need a working alternative of http://entrproject.org/
06:01 < prussian> docker pull latest container and run it
06:01 < sssilver> prussian: the whole reason I wanna do this is so that during development I only docker-compose up once
06:01 < sssilver> map the binary from the host OS
06:01 < sssilver> have it recompiled on the host OS
06:01 < sssilver> and that to trigger a rerun of the binary inside the container
06:02 < sssilver> because spinning down & up a stack of multiple containers after every source code change is a pain and takes a ton of time
06:03 < sssilver> I imagine that inside of my Dockerfile's ENTRYPOINT, instead of specifying the binary directly, I will use some kind of a utility that'll invoke it, and terminate/restart it if it detects a filesystem change of said binary
06:03 < prussian> that's literally the whole point of docker
06:03 < sssilver> probably through INOTIFY or something like that
06:03 < prussian> I mean no offense
06:04 < sssilver> prussian: the point of docker is that my dev stack will be the exact same stack as the one running in production, nothing more and nothing less
06:05 < sssilver> I may not be explaining my problem clearly; for this I apologize. English isn't my first language.
06:06 < prussian> then you'd need some kind of supervisor as you just said. so there you go.
06:06 < sssilver> sure, but what would this supervisor be?
06:07 < prussian> bin & binpid=$!; while { some polling or inotify system bin }; do kill $binpid; bin & binpid=$!; done or some crap like that
06:10 < sssilver> that seems more involved than what I was looking for :'(
06:10 < sauvin> What's so "involved" about it? It's what I'd do.
06:12 < prussian> you could make a simple while sleep loop to check mtime without needing the inotify tools
06:12 < jimm> sssilver, no apologies necessary, we are pretty good at getting the info we need in order to help
06:19 < Sitri> <sssilver> I basically need a working alternative of http://entrproject.org/ <-- incron or iwatch?
06:19 < sssilver> Sitri: looking at iWatch right now
06:27 < litwho> i have a question about gpg keys
06:28 < litwho> i had share gpg key with someone and he gave me a machine.. now how can i ssh
06:28 < sssilver> alright iwatch does exactly what I need, with one issue -- it will only invoke the command if a change is detected; however I need to also invoke it initially
06:28 < revel> litwho: A GPG key? The answer is probably "you don't"
06:29 < sssilver> litwho: are you sure it's a GPG key?
06:29 < revel> ^
06:29 < sssilver> litwho: they probably gave you an SSH private key
06:29 < revel> Or, rather, you shared your public key with them.
06:29 < revel> Hopefully.
06:29 < litwho> no they have given me a gpg key
06:29 < sssilver> litwho: what's the filename of this key?
06:29 < revel> Then the answer is "you don't"
06:30 < litwho> ank.txt.gpp
06:30 < Sitri> That's probably just a gpg encrpyted text file
06:30 < Sitri> Decrypt it with gpg
06:30 < litwho> ok..
06:30 < sssilver> yeah that makes sense
06:48 < litwho> Sitri: I have decrypted it
06:48 < litwho> however this is what i got as a message https://pastebin.com/ySXruuTS
06:49 < Sitri> "gpg: decryption failed: No secret key"
06:49 < Sitri> I don't think you did
06:49 < littlwho> yes why does it say so
06:49 < littlwho> i just did gpg <file>.gpg
06:50 < littlwho> am i using the right command?
06:52 < Sitri> I don't think you have gpg configured correctly, it should be able to see the private key that's paired with the public key you gave to your friend
06:57 < Sitri> Was the vagrant user the one who made the GPG keys?
07:01 < poxifide> dumb question: how to back out of changing a password
07:02 < Sitri> poxifide: ctrl+C?
07:03 < poxifide> doesn't work. i just fed it the same password and on the 3rd try it coughed up an error and didn't change it.
07:09 < sssilver> guys, so I put together this script -- http://lpaste.net/364816 -- and the only thing I need now is for lines 3-5 to kinda work in background, in parallel to the rest of the script
07:09 < sssilver> would I need to move it out to a separate .sh file, and invoke it with a & prefix?
07:09 < sssilver> if not, is there a better way to do that?
07:10 < rosa> Why aren't there any OpenGL ES tutorials ;-;
07:11 < sssilver> rosa: because OpenGL is 1970, Vulkan is where it's at
07:12 < sssilver> no offense, but OpenGL is one of the worst APIs ever
07:13 < sauvin> sssilver, have you looked at incrond ?
07:14 < sssilver> sauvin: I briefly have, it looked more involved than what I wanted to do
07:14 < sssilver> this is all just an entrypoint shell script for a Docker container
07:14 < rosa> ;-;
07:14 < sssilver> sauvin: so I don't have to restart my entire compose stack when I rebuild my binary
07:14 < sauvin> That bash script is pretty darned "involved", too. Looks like lots of CPU for nothing.
07:14 < sssilver> sauvin: where?
07:15 < sssilver> I imagine `until` blocks as long as process is running
07:15 < sssilver> and inotifywatch is asynchronous
07:15 < sssilver> getting INOTIFY events as they happen
07:16 < sssilver> all I need is the inotifywatch while block to be kind of invoked "in the background", and I'll be super happy
07:16 < sauvin> Look at it this way: your bash script does it close to the "highest" levels of the userland. incrond does most of its thing the kernel level.
07:16 < sssilver> I suppose I'll need to move it out to a separate .sh file afterall?
07:17 < sssilver> sauvin: I don't mind that, this is just during dev on local machine.
07:17 < sssilver> obviously on production I simply use /bat/bat as Docker entrypoint, and that's it
07:17 < sauvin> And yes, I'm not aware it's possible to background things in straight shell. In perl, when I need to do stuff like that, it'll be in a thread.
07:17 < rosa> Does anyone know where I can find OpenGL ES tutorials
07:17 < sauvin> (bash doesn't do threads as far as I'm aware)
07:18 < sssilver> sauvin: I wouldn't mind if it was running in a separate process
07:18 < sssilver> don't need threads
07:18 < sssilver> nothin fancy
07:18 < sauvin> then maybe you could put the stuff you want "backgrounded" into a subshell.
07:18 < sauvin> I'm not a bash person; you might try asking in #bash.
07:19 < sssilver> ah, good tip -- thanks!
07:19 < sssilver> I just realized that most of my Linux questions are actually Bash questions haha
07:19 < sauvin> Nothing wrong with that.
07:26 < asphyxia> hi guys, anyone know if reading APFS from a linux format is possible?
07:27 < asphyxia> I'm interested in moving over from osx to linux and have an APFS backup...
07:28 < [R]> "from a linux format"?
07:28 < asphyxia> I guess what I mean is if I plug in my hdd will it be able to read it
07:28 < asphyxia> when it's APFS
07:28 < [R]> i dont see an APFS filesystem driver
07:29 < [R]> https://github.com/sgan81/apfs-fuse
07:29 < [R]> looks like there is a fuse driver
07:29 < asphyxia> Oh, read only :(
07:30 < asphyxia> I need write as well to move the files
07:30 < Psi-Jack> YOu don't need write to move files.
07:31 < bug> why?
07:32 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm. Gitea's looking pretty noice. Going to try to convert my gogs to gitea now.
07:33 < [R]> lol
07:33 < Spookan> asphyxia: Why not just use samba?
07:33 < scythefwd2> samba is evil.. what ami chiming in on without the prerequisite knowledge?
07:34 < scythefwd2> but the real reason I'm here besides that troll... by default, should I be able to ping a default (but IP'd) centos 7 install
07:35 < LordRyan> this is likely a dumb question
07:35 < asphyxia> scythefwd2: I'm not a troll? :(
07:35 < LordRyan> if I "ssh root@<server>" *then* run ./controller.sh logs
07:35 < LordRyan> that works
07:35 < LordRyan> but if I run "ssh root@<server> ./controller.sh logs", it gets up to a certain point and then freezes up
07:36 < Psi-Jack> scythefwd2: Careful with the name-calling.
07:36 < [R]> LordRyan: probably because its interactive vs non interactive shell
07:37 < LordRyan> [R]: well, I'm not sending it input either way once the program's started
07:37 < [R]> so?
07:37 < LordRyan> I'm not too sure on why an interactive shell would cause that to fail.
07:37 < [R]> well we can continue guesing random things...
07:39 < LordRyan> oh
07:39 < LordRyan> 16384 bytes sent
07:39 < LordRyan> it stops after that
07:39 < [R]> Oh!
07:39 < [R]> why didn't you say so
07:40 < LordRyan> i just found out!
07:40 < LordRyan> was messing around with timeout|wc
07:40 < LordRyan> but i had to make a tmp file for that
07:40 < mooncakehexchat> just found an ancient mboard in the shed with a amd duron 1024 mb ram and jumpers for the cpu and other what flavour linux with gui would you recommend for old hardware guys
07:40 < ayecee> any
07:41 < LordRyan> so my guess is that ssh won't send over 16384 lines to stdout but `docker logs` is *more* than happy to
07:42 < pnbeast> Shednux!  It has all the lightweight features you want, plus it comes with a spare handle for your garden rake.
07:43 < ayecee> i regularly spin up vms with gui with roughly those specs
07:43 < ayecee> on stock ubuntu
07:44 < mooncakehexchat> no drammas or super slow
07:44 < LordRyan> [R]: -t works!
07:44 < mooncakehexchat> lols
07:44 < mooncakehexchat> thats all u want
07:44 < ||JD||> I used to use fluxbox for low spec hardware, not sure if it's still being developed
07:44 < ayecee> mooncakehexchat: you, please
07:45 < mooncakehexchat> sure sorry
07:47 < asphyxia> Ok y'all linux crew help me out
07:47 < asphyxia> What's the deal with APFS...
07:48 < asphyxia> From what I can gather it's only read/write by macs
07:48 < ayecee> be more specific and less familiar
07:48 < [R]> APFS... what's the deal with that
07:48 < explodes> How do I "set" /proc/sys/kernel/yama/ptrace_scope to 0?
07:48 < [R]> explodes: echo 0 > /whatever
07:48 < explodes> oh well that did work
07:49 < asphyxia> basically I've used mac for ever and yup it just got water damaged really badly and I can't afford a new one
07:49 < asphyxia> so thinking about using linux cos I can't stand windows
07:49 < ayecee> because, please
07:49 < asphyxia> but all my stuff is on apfs format
07:49 < explodes> will /proc/sys/kernel/yama be reset on restart?
07:49 < ayecee> yes
07:49 < Spookan> asphyxia: So copy it to Linux and reformat the drive with ext4?
07:53 < asphyxia> Spookan: Thanks for your suggestions...I just wonder if this is new territory since the apfs has only been out for a little while
07:54 < expert975> Where can I ask about C/C++ programming?
07:54 < asphyxia> expert975: over on the #C++ channel I assume
07:54 < Sitri> expert975: #learnprogramming or #C++-general
07:54 < Sitri> Err, ##C++-general
07:55 < Spookan> asphyxia: It could be that Apple has the rights so linux drivers only can be in "read only".
07:55 < Sitri> ##C++ is run by a tyrant, so I don't suggest there
07:56 < [R]> or, its propreitary closed source crap...
07:56 < asphyxia> Spookan: omg I'm doomed
07:56 < Spookan> asphyxia: How much data is it on the drive?
07:57 < asphyxia> You know what I'm gonna figure this out I don't like feeling cornered like this
07:57 < asphyxia> around 1TB I guess
07:57 < Spookan> asphyxia: And how much space do you have on your linux machine?
07:58 < stevendale> Running Debian, put Win XP in a VM and got GPU passthrough working
07:58 < asphyxia> I haven't purchased it yet but I'll try and get a 500GB
07:58 < asphyxia> Lots of movies I can delete
07:59 < stevendale> Surprised how much VirtualBox has evolved since I last used it
07:59 < Spookan> asphyxia: Ok, another tip is to buy another 1TB drive and just do a copy of all data.
07:59 < asphyxia> Spookan: actually I don't have a linux machine yet I've only just started thinking about my options now since today my laptop got water damaged
08:01 < Spookan> asphyxia: Ah ok, try to find a PC/laptop without Windows on it. It will be cheaper.
08:04 < asphyxia> Spookan: everything seems cheap after buying mac hardware haha :p
08:05 < luke-jr> Spookan: usually it's the other way around
08:06 < luke-jr> asphyxia: if you don't mind a desktop, you can get the quality Apple used to have with Raptor's Talos II systems based on IBM POWER9
08:06 < luke-jr> asphyxia: if you need portable, you might consider the GPD Win 2
08:07 < Spookan> luke-jr: Not where i am.
08:07 < luke-jr> Spookan: ?
08:09 < Spookan> luke-jr: "Spookan: usually it's the other way around"
08:10 < luke-jr> Spookan: you can't buy subsidized PCs there?
08:11 < Spookan> luke-jr: PCs yes laptops is harder maybe some companies have without Windows, but mostley used ones then, all new laptops is with crap windows 10.
08:11 < ayecee> what's a subsidized pc?
08:12 < the_document> when will video acceleration be supported by browsers in linux?
08:12 < ayecee> the_document: it already is
08:12 < the_document> currently it uses cpu to decode and decoding 4k isn't gonna happen
08:12 < the_document> ayecee: no browser supports gpu decode
08:12 < ayecee> says who
08:12 < the_document> meh
08:13 < luke-jr> ayecee: often, PC manufacturers pre-load software (as a kind of advertisement) in exchange for some $
08:13 < luke-jr> that $ comes off the price of those PCs
08:13 < luke-jr> so OS-less PCs end up costing more
08:13 < ayecee> i see
08:13 < the_document> ayecee: tried playing 4k videos on a laptop?
08:13 < the_document> with youtube
08:14 < ayecee> not lately
08:17 < the_document> n00bs here dont even know the state of gpu decode
08:17 < ayecee> stupid noobs
08:17 < ayecee> tbh i wasn't taking your rhetorical question seriously
08:18 < ayecee> the answer to any "when will it be supported" question is always "when it's done"
08:36 < mooncakehexchat> do all distro's of linux ship with x11
08:36 < mooncakehexchat> "include x11?"
08:38 < ayecee> no
08:45 < nai> only bad ones :^)
08:56 < luxio> when I type ping 1.1, why does it ping 1.1.1.1
08:56 < iflema> look at the source code
08:57  * iflema ground hogs day
08:58 < iflema> and it should be 1.0.0.1
09:01 < ayecee> ground hogs -> ground pork -> spam
09:01 < stevendale> Hey
09:01 < stevendale> GPU passthrough is wonderful <3
09:10 < talx> morning guys,
09:11 < talx> in ivm, can I have two groups on the same hdd ?
09:11 < talx> lvm*
09:12 < ayecee> maybe, but it would be a weird way to configure it
09:17 < talx> ayecee: so its usually 1 lvm on each hd ?
09:18 < ayecee> usually one pv on each hd
09:18 < talx> yea
09:18 < talx> 1 pv but you can make as many groups as you desire right?
09:19 < ayecee> a vg contains pvs
09:19 < ayecee> a lv is a part of a vg
09:19 < ayecee> you can make as many lvs as you desire
09:20 < talx> :o
09:20 < talx> this is so confusing I don't why
09:21 < ayecee> a pv is an apple. you can have a group of apples. you can divide that group of apples into pieces of apples.
09:21 < iflema> logical...
09:21 < ayecee> i see what you did there
09:21 < iflema> it doesnt seem to slow anything down
09:24 < iflema> ayecee: not sure why I can see you... sure I had you ignored.
09:25 < iflema> nope... 2 admins only, both from here
09:25 < iflema> lol
09:25 < ayecee> harsh
09:29 < Brek> Using Arch, I can install and update proprietary software using AUR Helper via a command only. Currently using debian, I install proprietary software from their website and update them manually. Is there an easy way to do so in debian just like arch?
09:31 < talx> ayecee
09:32 < talx> can you help me make changes just for practice ? I've a virtual machine to test things
09:32 < talx> but still I don't want to mess it out first try
09:32 < talx> heh
09:32 < bookworm> Brek: enable the non free repos
09:32 < ayecee> nope, is my bed time
09:32 < talx> where you from m8
09:33 < talx>  vgs
09:33 < talx>   VG      #PV #LV #SN Attr   VSize   VFree
09:33 < talx>   vg_nisx   1   4   0 wz--n- <39.00g 1.00g
09:33 < Brek> bookworm: non free repo has ATOM
09:33 < bookworm> talx: have a look at the Arch Linux wiki about LVM, it is nicely explained
09:33 < Brek> and other softwares?
09:33 < Brek> like.. JS Brain
09:33 < Brek> etc.
09:33 < talx> !g arch linux wiki lvm
09:33 < talx> :p
09:34 < talx> bookworm: ty
09:34 < talx> bookworm: is arch linux rhel based? or debian based or nor ?
09:34 < bookworm> Brek: not sure, I don't use Debian much
09:35 < ayecee> talx: none of the above
09:35 < bookworm> talx: it's a different distro all together, from scratch so to speak
09:35 < talx> yea
09:35 < Brek> bookworm: whatdo you  use
09:35 < talx> I wonder
09:35 < bookworm> Arch
09:35 < bookworm> who would have guessed
09:35 < talx> how does it work as a server ?
09:36 < bookworm> nicely, if you can accept frequent reboots
09:36 < talx> heh
09:36 < Brek> bookworm: Left arch coz too much of maintenance. lol. missing AUR thou
09:36 < bookworm> due to kernel updates
09:36 < bookworm> fair enough, but why debian? Grab yourself a distro which has more up to date packages
09:36 < stevendale> :P
09:37 < talx> I had fedora
09:37 < bookworm> but?
09:37 < talx> and on each update you could be facing a problem
09:37 < stevendale> I installed Debian, an upgrade from Windows XP... now I am using XP in a VirtualBox VM with GPU passthrough/IOMMU, it's really fast and has little tax on my processor or hardware, perhaps even less than running Wine
09:37 < Brek> are libraries in debian any different than arch's?
09:38 < stevendale> Very different Brek
09:38 < bookworm> ^^, or how to get pawned in 50s on the internet stevendale
09:38 < Brek> stevendale: explain please?
09:38 < stevendale> Completely different package layout, different dependencies, different versions, Brek
09:38 < Brek> stevendale: you on debian ?
09:38 < stevendale> They may be built off the same source code
09:38 < stevendale> Yes, actually
09:38 < stevendale> System:    Host Typhlosion Kernel 4.9.0-6-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop Openbox 3.6.1
09:38 < stevendale>            Distro Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)
09:38 < Brek> stevendale: tried arch?
09:39 < stevendale> Yeah I have
09:39 < stevendale> I didn't like it
09:39 < Brek> which libraries would youprefer
09:39 < stevendale> It takes the minimalistic approach too far
09:39 < stevendale> Debian's ones
09:39 < Brek> I see. why so?
09:39 < bookworm> s/libraries/packages/g
09:39 < bookworm> or repos
09:40 < Brek> no I am speaking specifically about libraries
09:40 < stevendale> Because apt more aggressively checks that package integrity is valid, pacman does not do it to the extent that apt does
09:40 < Brek> I never saw libstd++6 in arch
09:40 < bookworm> that doesn't make much sense
09:40 < Brek> for clang
09:40 < stevendale> Debian does install recommended packages by default
09:40 < stevendale> While Arch does not
09:40 < Brek> stevendale: I see.
09:40 < stevendale> I prefer to have those extra packages so I don't have to rerun pacman -S after installing an app or game/library
09:41 < stevendale> To get the full featureset
09:41 < stevendale> HDD space is pretty cheap nowadays, so I don't see a problem in a couple of extra MB
09:41 < bookworm> also edit the config, unless upstream enabled that by default it's not gonna work :P
09:42 < Brek> stevendale: haha yea
09:42 < Brek> even systemctl enable is done for you in debian
09:42 < Brek> in arch you gotta manually doit
09:42 < bookworm> which I personally hate very much
09:43 < stevendale> Yep
09:43 < bookworm> just because I installed something doesn't mean that I want it to run with some default config
09:43 < turbo64> hi
09:43 < turbo64> how is ryzen support in debian stretch currently?
09:43 < stevendale> turbo64, Not very good
09:43 < turbo64> so should i use buster then?
09:43 < stevendale> Yes
09:43 < turbo64> or sid
09:43 < stevendale> Sid works too
09:44 < stevendale> Ubuntu is based off of sid
09:44 < turbo64> is it better to use buster than sid
09:44 < turbo64> i dont know how much stable it is compared to sid
09:44 < stevendale> Do you want to be productive or waste time? If you want a productive, mostly usable system, go for buster
09:44 < stevendale> If you want to be fixing problems 50% of the time, use sid
09:44 < turbo64> ok
09:45 < stevendale> I use Stable, because I need to get the job done
09:45 < stevendale> And my processor is pretty old o/
09:45 < stevendale> CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3340M CPU @ 2.70GHz (1.20GHz)
09:45 < turbo64> i would use stable but i just got this new ryzen processor so i dont want to deal with an old kernel that doesnt support it well
09:45 < stevendale> Ubuntu 18.04 is out in a couple of days turbo64
09:45 < stevendale> That will work great with your Ryzen
09:45 < turbo64> eh i dont like ubuntu
09:46 < stevendale> It's not too far off debian, but I understand, the radical changes they do every so often is unappealing
09:46 < stevendale> They haven't been able to keep things unchanged long enough for me to get attached to anything emotionally
09:46 < turbo64> ive finally migrated to gnome 3 and i got it set up the way i like it, but the one problem im having is the applications view getting cluttered with stuff
09:46 < stevendale> Whereas Debian stable does, I can like my system, and my setup, without worrying about updates blowing my config up
09:46 < turbo64> and not having a GUI editor that works properly
09:46 < stevendale> Ah
09:47 < Brek> what do youlike then turbo64
09:47 < Brek> :D
09:47 < turbo64> i dont know if its just ubuntu, but both menulibre and alacarte cant edit gnome 3's menu properly at all
09:47 < turbo64> alacarte doesnt work period and menulibre just ends up breaking it
09:47 < stevendale> I use openbox with LxPanel and NetworkManager myself, took a while to setup :)
09:47 < stevendale> I wanted to use Wicd but it's broken on stable right now
09:47 < stevendale> I don't know how the package got in there
09:48 < turbo64> wicd is broken on everything
09:48 < stevendale> :P
09:48 < turbo64> i remember i installed it on my pi once and it gave me nothing but grief
09:48 < stevendale> I use acpi in a terminal for battery status, and I added a kernel boot flag to fix my brightness keys
09:49 < turbo64> ubuntu 18 has a minimal install option which is interesting
09:49 < stevendale> I also disabled intel pstate, and let tlp control processor clock
09:49 < turbo64> since the bloat is one of the reasons i dislike ubuntu
09:49 < turbo64> but i dont know what kind of stuff it excludes in a minimal install
09:49 < stevendale> Yeah, there is also Lubuntu, which happens to have a option for a minimal LXDE install
09:49 < stevendale> With almost no apps aside from Lxterminal
09:50 < turbo64> also it doesnt solve my other gripe with ubuntu, the heavy customization they make to packages
09:50 < turbo64> i like things to be as upstream as possible
09:50 < stevendale> I don't like upstream patches either :(
09:50 < turbo64> whenever gnome has a problem i dont know if its an ubuntu problem or a gnome problem
09:50 < turbo64> because of how much they changed gnome
09:51 < turbo64> and tried to turn it into unity
09:51 < turbo64> i didnt think unity was even that bad tbh
09:52 < turbo64> i dont know why they got rid of it
09:52 < stevendale> Back, had to feed my two cats :)
10:16 < ayjay_t> anyway to see which users are connected via xhost?
10:58 < CrazyTux> guys, what's your opinion on this? https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ranking
10:58 < CrazyTux> does it indicate the user preference?
10:59 < lopid> initially i would say it looks like it doesn't take into account the number of ratings
11:01 < CrazyTux> https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ranking&sort=votes
11:02 < dogbert_2> everyone has a idea of what the best disto is :)
11:02 < lopid> it needs to take into account the rating AND number of votes
11:04 < CrazyTux> Manjaro seems to the most preferred of them all.
11:04 < sauvin> Distrowatch is not to be taken as a reliable indicator of popularity.
11:05 < sauvin> In fact, there appears to be no reliable indicator of any kind anywhere.
11:09 < CrazyTux> ok
11:13 < CrazyTux> could a distro freezing randomly be related to the kernel?
11:16 < lopid> yes
11:16 < dogbert_2> LOL...I have a libre computer AML-S905X-CC (quad-core ARM A53 @ 1.6Ghz, 1GB DDR3, 10/100 Ethernet, HDMI, RCA, UART debug, 40 pin GPIO, 32GB Patriot MicroSD with Linux lepotato 4.14.32-meson64 #2 SMP PREEMPT Thu Apr 5 19:31:23 CEST 2018 aarch64 GNU/Linux
11:16 < CrazyTux> ok. Newer kernels could solve this issue?
11:16 < dogbert_2> Possible
11:17 < dogbert_2> but could be flakey hardware as well...
11:18 < CrazyTux> I am using two distros on the same laptop. Opensuse Leap that comes with an older kernel and Manjaro with a newer kernel. I face this problem of random freezing only on OpenSuse Leap but never on Manjaro.
11:19 < CrazyTux> before installing Leap, I was using Ubuntu LTS. Even that had the same problem.
11:20 < Auroth> I smell of smoke
11:20 < Auroth> Had a little fire in my backyard
11:21 < dogbert_2> strange...I use VM's for development, but that is on a beefy desktop...on the other hand, this Libre AML-S905X-CC can do a lot of small jobs, web server, system monitoring with MRTG, etc
11:22 < dogbert_2> though I stick with things like OpenSuSE Leap (42.3), NetBSD 7.1.x, CentOS 7, FreeBSD 11.x, etc
11:24 < CrazyTux> dogbert_2, occasionally Leap 42.3 freezes.
11:25 < CrazyTux> I always keep it properly updated.
11:25 < dogbert_2> could be flaky...dunno...
11:25 < CrazyTux> I never had a single instance of this happening on Manjaro so far.
11:25 < CrazyTux> both are on the same laptop.
11:30 < pantato> anyone know if there's a parameter with youtube-dl i can use to see how much space it would take to mirror an entire youtube channel before downloading it?
11:36 < mawk> someone's trying to kill you Auroth
11:36 < Auroth> Really?
11:36 < Auroth> They better try harder, it's not working :)
11:36 < rendar> when i try to run xfce with 2 monitors, my entire linux kernel freezes, anyone can help me?
11:38 < mawk> when running expect as root the sleeps take ages
11:38 < mawk> like sleep 0.8 is taking 5 seconds or so
11:38 < mawk> is that a known bug ? or it's due to my poor understanding of expect
11:38 < mawk> here is the expect script: http://paste.suut.in/aMSMMDn0.tcl
11:42 < mawk> no sorry it's
11:42 < mawk> just that I expect $ and with root it's #, I'm just dumb
12:00 < jimm> mawk, isn't that done with a script?
12:00 < mawk> yes jimm
12:00 < jimm> actually... testing that
12:05 < mawk> I'm using expect to fake human input jimm
12:06 < mawk> like that: https://asciinema.org/a/tGOh2hWM6nTec5ngVORD7m7sb
12:07 < jimm> preliminary results suggest a prompt user@host# is formed when no .bashrc, .profile, .bash_profile exists
12:08 < Sitri> There's also /etc/profile and some more bash specific ones in /etc/
12:09 < jimm> oh right
12:09 < Sitri> Bash's default string is something more like: 'bash\$ '
12:12 < jimm> will that turn into bash# as root?
12:12 < mawk> yes
12:12 < mawk> so it's alright
12:12 < mawk> I supply my own bashrc to my fake terminal session, with a colorful prompt ending in #
12:14 < jimm> so with or without shell startup scripts, you get the # at the end as root
12:14 < mawk> unless the prompt was severely modified
12:14 < mawk> so it's customary to have a $prompt variable in expect scripts for the user to modify
12:14 < jimm> can you do me a quick favor and hilite me?
12:15 < mawk> jimm:
12:15 < jimm> ok, so I know what color that is
12:16 < jimm> ok, can you post a line without hiliting?
12:16 < mawk> yes
12:17 < jimm> not sure what color that is
12:17  * sauvin lolites jimm
12:17 < jimm> in hexchat that is
12:17 < WishBoy> jimm
12:17  * WishBoy pokes jimm
12:17 < jimm> hi
12:18 < WishBoy> Registered : Jun 18 23:18:27 2000 (17y 43w 3d ago)
12:18 < WishBoy> grandpa
12:18 < WishBoy> you are there
12:18 < WishBoy> :3
12:18 < WishBoy> i miss you!
12:18 < hexnewbie> FreeNode existed in 2000?
12:18 < jimm> that was a little after lilo put freenode up
12:19 < mynameisdebian> I am running transmission daemon as user "debian-transmission".  I am getting a Permission Denied error in the Transmission web client.  I have 777 on the folder.  Ownserhip is debian-transmission:debian-transmission.  What are possible reasons why transmissiond might not have filesystem access to the folder?  The folder is on an external USB hard drive FWIW.
12:19 < jimm> maybe not actually, I think that includes opn
12:20 < rendar> hi
12:20 < mawk> what is that folder exactly mynameisdebian ?
12:20 < mawk> just use 755 for the folder
12:20 < WishBoy> hexnewbie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode
12:20 < mynameisdebian> why would that work and not 777?
12:21 < mawk> that won't work less mynameisdebian
12:21 < mawk> now tell us the full path
12:21 < rendar> someone can read me?
12:21 < WishBoy> hexnewbie 1995; 23 years ago as irc.linpeople.org / 1998; 20 years ago as irc.freenode.net
12:21 < WishBoy> rendar yes captain
12:21 < rendar> thanks
12:21 < WishBoy> :)
12:22 < mynameisdebian> mawk: /media/clickfree/1/transmission/dl/{complete,incomplete}
12:22 < mynameisdebian> mawk: /media/clickfree/1/transmission-dl/{complete,incomplete}
12:22 < mawk> check that every directory in the path is 755 or at least accessible to that user mynameisdebian
12:22 < WishBoy> be right back.
12:22 < rendar> i'm trying to install nvidia drivers on linux, i have installed the correct linux-headers package but when the nvidia installers tries to compile drivers, it fails, and log shows a lot of C errors, is this possible?!?
12:23 < mynameisdebian> mawk: how can I check this for a user without actually logging in as the user?
12:24 < jimm> wow, that wikipedia article is wayyyy more informative than freenode staff :)
12:24 < rendar> any help?
12:24 < hexnewbie> I guess I'll read it when my Internet connectivity comes back
12:24 < mawk> you just ls -l the folders mynameisdebian
12:24 < mawk> folders not accessible to everyone are rare
12:25 < mynameisdebian> mawk: the folders have recursive 777 perms and debian-transmission:debian-transmission ownership.  I have verified the daemon is running as debian-transmission, and that user is a member of the debian-transmission group
12:26 < mawk> then it's karma punishing you for using 777 permissions
12:26 < mawk> I see no other way
12:26 < hexnewbie> Ah, it came back> I'm sure I've heard irc.linpeople.org mentioned somehwere.
12:39 < sauvin> I can't remember clearly, but thought that linpeople was a channel on Dalnet.
12:44 < CoolerZ> hey
12:44 < CoolerZ> what do i need to install to get glib.h ?
12:45 < Exagone313> CoolerZ: glib?
12:45 < ezech> CoolerZ: dnf provides */include/glib.h ?
12:45 < CoolerZ> Exagone313, yes glib
12:46 < CoolerZ> it doesn't show up when i do apt list
12:46 < Exagone313> it really depends to your distro if they separate development files
12:46 < Exagone313> try a -dev package or something
12:47 < CoolerZ> ubuntu
12:47 < xnekomata> My usual hack would be 'apt-cache search glib' | grep dev
12:47 < xnekomata> Then get the right package
12:48 < CoolerZ> glib sounds extremly generic
12:48 < Exagone313> libglib2.0-dev?
12:49 < Exagone313> I just typed ubuntu glib.h on a search engine
12:49 < CoolerZ> what is it for?
12:49 < xnekomata> But, by doing the above hack you'll probably have only a few packages to choose from
12:50 < xnekomata> Sounds like GNU C library
12:50 < Exagone313> I just gave the package name
12:50 < CoolerZ> Exagone313, yeah i am installing
12:51 < sauvin> what xnekomata said about "hack" is pretty much what I do.
12:51 < xnekomata> :D
12:51 < Exagone313> CoolerZ: look you can search for files in a package there: https://packages.ubuntu.com/ (or to use apt-file)
12:51 < Exagone313> I mean search packages containing a file
12:51 < xnekomata> Uhuh
12:52 < xnekomata> That's also an interesting idea there, Exagone313
12:53 < ezech> any of you are using linux on apple hardware?
12:53 < infinisil> I am
12:53 < infinisil> ezech:
12:54 < ezech> infinisil: is it just-werks-tm after all drivers are installed?
12:54 < dgurney> ezech, depends on the Mac
12:54 < dgurney> older ones, basically yes
12:54 < infinisil> I've had no problems with mine
12:54 < ezech> I have an old old imac Im using now
12:54 < dgurney> define old old
12:55 < ezech> late 2009
12:55 < dgurney> ah, that should just work
12:55 < infinisil> I'm using a mid 2012 macbook air and it works without problems
12:55 < ezech> it has a beautiful screen and ati radeon graphics
12:56 < dgurney> well yes, that screen was always one of the selling points
12:56 < ezech> I fear it'll be very slow with modern linux or have graphics problems
12:56 < dgurney> no, it won't
12:56 < dgurney> provided you have enough RAM and an SSD
12:57 < dgurney> even with the standard HDD it should be usable with at least 4GB of ram
12:57 < ezech> yeah, ssd and 8GB ram, but core2duo and this ati - will it run youtube in fhd
12:57 < dgurney> it should
12:57 < dgurney> I mean, 1080p wasn't that new back in 2009
12:58 < infinisil> I actually struggle a bit with mine
12:58 < infinisil> Because firefox can't do hardware accerelation
12:58 < infinisil> or just very limited
12:58 < ezech> I intend to suffer macos for a while just to learn some tricks (never used it before) but since it already have problems with updates I may need to linuxize it
12:59 < ezech> what I hate the most is lack of proper pgup/pgdown support and constant cmd vs control keys in terminal
12:59 < CoolerZ> help
12:59 < CoolerZ> https://paste.pound-python.org/raw/CzpBpVFuCknN2NZqmAmK/
13:00 < CoolerZ> i am trying to build this http://hms.isi.jhu.edu/acsc/piratte/
13:01 < CoolerZ> i have gmp and pbc installed
13:01 < CoolerZ> i just installed lbswabe
13:02 < CoolerZ> i don't know if i have lcrypto
13:03 < CoolerZ> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17373306/error-in-linking-gmp-while-compiling-cpabe-package-from-its-source-code
13:04 < CoolerZ> is that it?
13:06 < CoolerZ> nope didn't work
13:06 < CoolerZ> same error
13:07 < CoolerZ>  also theres -lcrypto twice in the gcc command for some reason
13:08 < RayTracer> CoolerZ: maybe try -lm
13:09 < CoolerZ> RayTracer, where? make -lm  ?
13:09 < CoolerZ> or add it somewhere in the make file?
13:09 < RayTracer> wherever it ends up in the "gcc -o easier-setup setup.o common.o -O3 -Wall -lglib-2.0 -Wl,-rpath /usr/local/lib -lgmp -Wl,-rpath /usr/local/lib -lpbc -lbswabe -lcrypto" line
13:10 < CoolerZ> RayTracer, heres the Makefile https://paste.pound-python.org/show/yVzhqv04XoYzbwEmEwNE/
13:10 < RayTracer> I'm by no means compilation expert, but the INet search result I glanced over says to use -lm to combat DSO issue
13:11 < CoolerZ> why are there 2 -lcrypto s on line 19
13:11 < RayTracer> why should I know, ask the creator of the Makefile
13:15 < CoolerZ> RayTracer, thats almost never an option
13:16 < RayTracer> aha.. why?
13:16 < mynameisdebian> I feel stupid for asking this, but is it the case that for a user to read a directory, he must have permissions to list files in all parent directories?
13:17 < infinisil> mynameisdebian: I don't know, but it's pretty easy to test that
13:18 < mynameisdebian> true, true..  That appears to be the case from a test I just did, but it's weird that I've never had that explained to me over numerous classes and tutorials
13:18 < mynameisdebian> just hoping someone can confirm
13:18 < tx> mynameisdebian: no
13:19 < tx> you can have no permissions on /foo/ and still read /foo/bar/
13:19 < tx> assuming you have set permissions on /foo/bar ;)
13:20 < Exagone313> you just need +x on /foo
13:20 < RayTracer> mkdir -p test/a/b; chmod a-x test/a; ls -l test/a/b ==> permission denied
13:21 < mynameisdebian> Exagone313: Thank you!
13:21 < tx> ah yes
13:21 < mynameisdebian> RayTracer: you also, nice example
13:21 < tx> you need +x to descent into a child dir
13:22 < tx> :(
13:22 < mynameisdebian> tx: you too!  :)
13:22 < Exagone313> with +r ona  directory you can list fiels in it, but not stat/access them
13:22 < Exagone313> with +x you can access them
13:22 < Exagone313> just try it out anyway
13:23 < mynameisdebian> thank you
13:23 < CoolerZ> /usr/local/lib/libbswabe.a(core.o): In function `bswabe_setup':
13:23 < CoolerZ> core.c:(.text+0x8ca): undefined reference to `pairing_init_set_buf'
13:23 < CoolerZ> help please
13:23 < CoolerZ> i tried what they suggested here https://bitbucket.org/hatswitch/easier/issues/1/when-executing-make-command-in-piratte
13:23 < CoolerZ> same error
13:24 < Exagone313> s/access/read/ * btw
13:28 < mynameisdebian> Exagone: gotcha
13:55 < Netham46> Trying to add an interface to a bridge with sudo ip link set enp6s0 master br0 and I'm getting RTNETLINK answers: Device or resource busy, anyone know why? Using Arch.
13:56 < Netham46> Tried taking the IF down first, no change, it's not assigned to any bridges
13:57 < blackflag_bfp> this tmuxinator is crazy
14:08 < Skunky> Netham46: check dmesg, maybe you're missing support for something in your kernel...
14:09 < RayTracer> Netham45: you might want to try brctl addif
14:21 < mawk> they should upgrade make-jpkg
14:22 < mawk> doesn't work for java 9 or 10
14:22 < mawk> I'm obliged to use java 8 now !
14:31 < mawk> I recovered my broken linux server using IPMI or something
14:31 < mawk> that thing is nice
14:31 < mawk> but I see in the bottom of the window "secured with RC4"
14:31 < mawk> isn't that like an extremely old cipher ?
14:34 < mawk> it's like the royal door to my server and it's secured with RC4
14:34 < mawk> and people say they're afraid of management interfaces
14:34 < mawk> they have something to be afraid f
14:42 < BluesKaj> Hey folks
14:49 < ezech> mawk: so how many times your server was hacked?
14:50 < jimm> once per attempt
14:53 < tx> jimm: that is the correct answer
14:54 < ezech> it's like a high school - it's all about how popular you are, unpopular server won't see any penetration no matter how insecure it is
14:55 < tx> It's true, only the prettiest servers at the prom get penetrated.
14:57 < oiaohm> Really no I have see some very highly unpopular servers hacked.   Normally due to automated bots like infecting routers and so on.
14:57 < ezech> well maybe a machine from china
14:57 < oiaohm> The bot net stuff that  is not that selective at times.
14:58 < oiaohm> Remember the data on the server may not be popular but the connection and cpu time is still useful for bit coin mining and ddos......
14:58 < ezech> it'll only use your resources to penetrate the popular ones though
14:58 < ezech> so it doesn't really count
14:58 < mawk> this one none ezech
15:00 < oiaohm> ezech: problem is a few cases after bot net has got in and attackers used mining tools has there been cases with unpopular having like credit card processing issue of fraud transactions as well.
15:00 < oiaohm> ezech: data mining tools.
15:00 < oiaohm> ezech: so even if you are unpopular that only really protects you from the ones that are consuming human time.
15:01 < oiaohm> ezech: if you are weak enough to fall to automated and there is any attacker useful data there you could be still up the creek.
15:02 < mawk> being unpopular doesn't protect you
15:02 < mawk> just count how many ssh breakin attempts you get
15:02 < mawk> the IPv4 address space isn't that big
15:03 < ezech> I guess there are people out there who would put enterprise servers ilo/ipmi on public ip
15:03 < oiaohm> mawk: lot of those ssh attempts are just automated trying known attacks.
15:03 < mawk> from my point of view they're just bruteforce attempts with very lame password combos
15:03 < mawk> like admin:admin123
15:04 < oiaohm> mawk: that automated attempting for router passwords.
15:04 < oiaohm> mawk: basically trying the list of vendor defualt passwords.
15:05 < mawk> yeah
15:05 < oiaohm> ezech: server not being on a public ip does not help you if your router is on a public ip and it get bot netted and now searches inside you network.
15:06 < oiaohm> ezech: the automated is not the brightest beast.   It requires you security set up quite badly to be got by it.
15:06 < ezech> oiaohm: would it look into ipmi though?
15:07 < ezech> that would be a quite different direction of attack
15:07 < wpwpp> hi
15:07 < ezech> hi wpwpp
15:07 < ezech> oiaohm: especially if one is just trying to rake cpu cycles for btc or whatever
15:08 < oiaohm> ezech: https://securityledger.com/2014/08/was-an-ipmi-flaw-behind-300gbps-ddos-attack-computerworlduk-com/  2014 was the first time an automated appeared using ipmi to take control of stuff.
15:08 < ezech> if one wants your business content one would get a multipass and d/l your db from inside
15:09 < ezech> oiaohm: exactly, so it's a simple "find ipmi, add to ddos botnet", not a penetration attempt through impi into the data
15:10 < oiaohm> ezech: that bot from 2014 did data mine the infected machines.
15:10 < oiaohm> ezech: and it could happen again.
15:11 < oiaohm> ezech: at this stage there data mining tools are not the absolute smartest either.
15:12 < ezech> oiaohm: those were public facing ipmi - people who own good data don't do this though
15:13 < ezech> I wonder what was data-mined in this attack - wordpress templates?
15:13 < oiaohm> ezech: there is a alteration that was 2015 that ipmi attack was part of a router breaching on.
15:13 < oiaohm> ezech: ie breach router than attempt ipmi attack on machines behind router.
15:14 < oiaohm> ezech: this is stuff that still can be 100 percent automated.
15:14 < innopit> can some explain how to use
15:14 < innopit> perl-rename
15:14 < innopit> or just rename
15:14 < oiaohm> ezech: if you do have data of important it might pay to have a router you control quality of.
15:15 < ezech> oiaohm: I'd say it might pay to have a team of pros who know how to deal with it better than I am
15:15 < oiaohm> ezech: even pros have forgot to check quality of routers.
15:15 < ezech> last thing I want is to be a opsec
15:16 < oiaohm> ezech: or highly smart switches.
15:16 < ezech> I'd rather curse and yell at opsec who force me to upgrade my stuff :)
15:16 < ezech> and I do
15:17 < oiaohm> ezech: does not pay to yell at opsec they might take the less effective way out because it means they get yelled at less.
15:18 < oiaohm> ezech: curse them when they are out of ear shot is better.
15:18 < ezech> nah, they never give any attention, also they yell back
15:21 < oiaohm> ezech: also if you are worried about budget the other one is opsec sneaking in extra toys into the order.   I have found it better to speak friendly but burnt wanting why cheaper options are not possible.
15:22 < ezech> oiaohm: I don't worry about a budget - I just cry when I look at it :D
15:23 < ezech> but yeah, I do believe that for security thinking counts more than toys
15:24 < ezech> it's better to move your appointment to an earlier hour and safer place than buy a tank and anti-personnel shells
15:25 < ezech> and start noticing this elephant in the room who is underpaid personnel with not adequately monitored access to too many places
15:40 < jimm> there's an elephant in this room?!
15:40 < mawk> I don't see one
15:40 < jimm> must hide pretty good...
15:49 < mawk> tmux uses the TSC timer ??
15:49 < mawk> I tried to disable it to see what would happen
15:49 < mawk> or maybe the glibc is
15:50 < mawk> in any case that's weird there's no fallback
15:50 < mawk> that's the second bug I discover while doing stupid things with tmux
15:51 < mawk> tmux receives SIGSEGV when I disable the TSC
16:05 < tsakos> Hey, does anyone know if I can log HTTPS websites with squid? I want to do a personal project where I will log my web history network-wide.
16:06 < mawk> using some certificate trickery yes
16:06 < mawk> you need to man-in-the-middle the https flow
16:07 < mawk> so install a root certificate in the client's computer
16:07 < mawk> it uses a lot of CPU, so a raspberry pi maybe won't be enough for a couple clients
16:09 < tsakos> You mean squid is using a lot of memory, right?
16:10 < tsakos> So, this is the only way around this, right?
16:13 < JaySun> hi~
16:15  * JaySun 
16:15 < JaySun> ll
16:15 < makegoboom> greetings
16:16 < JaySun> hi~
16:16 < makegoboom> anyone know how to configure the agetty terminal colors and font?
16:16 < JaySun> this is my first time use IRC
16:16 < JaySun> maybe settings?
16:17 < JaySun> I use irssi
16:41 < mawk> yes tsakos
16:42 < mawk> HTTPS deciphering on the fly is using memory
16:47 < tsakos> mawk: Thanks for the information. :)
16:51 < yecril71pl> Hi, a Q for U:
16:52 < yecril71pl> { cd ~/test/c/.././b; }
16:52 < yecril71pl> Where would you expect to end?
16:53 < yecril71pl> I am in ~/test/a/b after that.
16:53 < revel> yecril71pl: The easiest way to check is testing it out yourself.
16:53 < pankaj__> I tried to establish ssh connection between my android phone and linux OS. Do I have to have root access on android device in order to establish the connection or ...........?
16:53 < revel> Wait, ~/test/a/b? That doesn't make sense.
16:53 < yecril71pl> OK, so try this:
16:55 < lukey> pankaj__: The ssh server needs to be run as root, because port 22 can only be opended by root
16:56 < revel> pankaj__: No.
16:56 < lukey> pankaj__: Also opening a new user session, pty etc needs also root
16:56 < revel> You certainly don't need root to use the phone as a client and there's apps that let you use the phone as a ssh server without root.
16:57 < revel> i.e Termux.
16:57 < revel> It'll be on port 8022 and it forces you to use pubkey auth though.
16:57 < yecril71pl> revel: { mkdir -p a/a a/b; cd a/a; ln -s -t. ../b; cd ../..;ln -sT a/a c; }
16:57 < revel> (you can set it to some other high port though)
16:58 < p3rL> hello i need  help
16:58 < revel> yecril71pl: Why?
16:58 < revel> What is this supposed to accomplish?
16:59 < p3rL> when i upload file with root access the url its not work correclty but when i put with www its work fine
16:59 < p3rL> how can i give permision to root uploaded file thtas work like www
16:59 < yecril71pl> revel: This tests how relative soft links work
16:59 < revel> p3rL: chown, probably.
16:59 < p3rL> give cmd plz
17:00 < revel> man chown
17:00 < Exagone313> p3rL: man chown
17:00 < Exagone313> oops
17:00 < yecril71pl> revel, I am trying to understand the possible difficulties of implementing "Show original" on linux
17:00 < yecril71pl> and I found this gem
17:01 < revel> yecril71pl: Show original? You mean realpath?
17:01 < p3rL> ty
17:01 < p3rL> : ))
17:01 < yecril71pl> revel, a real path in UI
17:01 < pankaj__> lukey: So, I have to have root access on my android. Right?
17:02 < yecril71pl> revel, just like in Microsoft Windows Explorer
17:02 < Exagone313> pankaj__: for openssh to work it seems so, but there are probably other ssh servers that can be used without root
17:02 < yecril71pl> revel, except that Microsoft Windows does not allow relative soft links
17:03 < Exagone313> I wonder how they're doing in termux
17:03 < lukey> pankaj__: see the answers by revel
17:03 < ReScO> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8cflxn/self_encrypting_drives_trusted_platform_modules/ who here has some answers perhaps?
17:03 < revel> yecril71pl: I didn't try it, but does it create an infinite loop (more or less)?
17:03 < Exagone313> https://github.com/termux/termux-packages/blob/master/packages/openssh/sshd.c.patch lol
17:03 < yecril71pl> revel, there is no infinite loop
17:03 < pankaj__> Exagone313: OK
17:03 < revel> Guess I should try it out then.
17:03 < pankaj__> lukey: OK
17:04 < Exagone313> they're patching openssh to make it work, ok
17:04 < revel> Yeah, Termux patches a lot of things to work with Android rootlessly and natively.
17:04 < yecril71pl> revel, unless you mean a potential infinite loop
17:04 < yecril71pl> revel, every directory has a potential infinite loop
17:05 < yecril71pl> ./././././././. ...
17:05 < yecril71pl> but it is not an actual one
17:05 < Exagone313> yecril71pl: I don't undersand what is your question
17:05 < revel> yecril71pl: Why specify -t in ln?
17:05 < revel> I don't either.
17:05 < yecril71pl> -t means to
17:06 < yecril71pl> My Q is: what result would you expect
17:06 < Exagone313> "specify the DIRECTORY in which to create the links"
17:06 < yecril71pl> after { cd ~/test/c/.././b; } ?
17:06 < yecril71pl> Where do you expect to land?
17:07 < Exagone313> are you using a shell or a custom app that resolve symbolic links?
17:07  * yecril71pl using bash
17:08 < revel> yecril71pl: Well, you didn't say anything about symlinks. I wasn't aware of that behaviour with symlinks before though.
17:08 < Exagone313> seems to be an XY problem to me
17:08 < Exagone313> or incomplete question
17:09 < revel> Anything about symlinks when you originally asked the question, that is.
17:09 < yecril71pl> GNU bash, version 4.3.42(1)-release (x86_64-suse-linux-gnu)
17:09 < Exagone313> see also #bash
17:09 < Exagone313> if you're not finding help here
17:09 < yecril71pl> So I shall, thanks
17:12 < agrecascino> okay so like
17:12 < agrecascino> what kernel modules are for intel ahci support
17:12 < agrecascino> because whatever they are, they aren't making it into my dracut image
17:21 < Pentode> what the fsck. the power has gone on and off at least twenty times in the past three hours here. i feel like i live in north korea. o_O
17:27 < pnbeast> Pentode, comcast has taken over the power company.  If you require that level of service, you'd need to purchase a business power plan, which comes with a static power connection.
17:27 < Pentode> haha
17:27 < Pentode> im just waiting for it to go out again any minute.
17:28 < Pentode> my ups doesnt even have a chance to charge
17:29 < pnbeast> If you need to charge a UPS with your business power plan, you'll need to purchase Business Power + UPS + Phone and Cable plan.  It's only 14.99 more than your current business plan.
17:30 < pnbeast> It comes with over 50 channels included.
17:30 < Pentode> they really are that bad, too. i can't even do things like SSH to my machine from work.
17:31 < pnbeast> Why not?  They don't block it, do they?
17:31 < Pentode> i used to put things on crazy ports so i could do it anyway
17:31 < Pentode> now that wont even work
17:31 < Pentode> oh yeah they do
17:31 < pnbeast> Really?  Are you sure it's not just your router settings or something like that?  I would call and argue about that.
17:32 < Pentode> i suppose it _could_ be, i'm not really very good at networking
17:33 < pnbeast> I have it at home, but I've tried to figure out the damn router nor connect from outside.  But, I think there are a couple of people at work who do it sometimes.
17:33 < Pentode> when it did work, i was directly connected then
17:33 < Pentode> now i have an access point and a router
17:33 < Pentode> maybe it is the router...
17:33 < revel>  My ISP blocks all open ports on the router from one hop after the router, but you can disable that for free.
17:34 < revel> Probably for security reasons.
17:34 < Pentode> im logged in to my router now. what would i even need to look for or change?
17:34 < revel> "port forwarding"?
17:34 < pnbeast> Look, make no mistake, Comcast is evil and it well could be them.  I'm just relaying some facts from my location and my resultant guesses.
17:35 < pnbeast> Yeah, the infestation of windows on commercial ISPs makes it "cost effective" to block ports by default.
17:35 < Exagone313> so you get an output internet access?
17:40 < revel> Exagone313: You don't need publically available ports like that to connect to the internet.
17:43 < Exagone313> revel: I wouldn't call that internet then
17:44 < Exagone313> you're partially connected only
17:45 < revel> Exagone313: Partially?
17:45 < Exagone313> you can access other machines, but others can't reach you directly
17:46 < revel> That's what NAT generally does.
17:47 < V7> Hey all
17:47 < V7> Is it possible to disable second attempt in ssh client ?
17:52 < NGC3982> i migrated some scripts from an old ubuntu machine to a new one. when i run the contents manually they work, but shen i "sh -v script.sh" it simply shows the script, no error message and no execution. how can i troubleshoot this?
17:53 < NGC3982> it does not seem to be related to the script itself, since all 'migrated' scripts seems to behave like this. i have chmod:ed them again, and checked the user access (same results with root).
17:53 < phogg> NGC3982: are these really sh scripts and not bash scripts?
17:53 < NGC3982> oh. they actually have the #!/bin/bash
17:54 < NGC3982> but running them with ./script.sh does not change the above
17:54 < phogg> so try again with bash scriptname, or bash -x scriptname
17:55 < NGC3982> using the -x parameter prints a part of the script, but does not execute it.
17:55 < phogg> NGC3982: the part it prints was executed
17:55 < NGC3982> hm, ok.
17:57 < NGC3982> ah, got it. i forgot the script executed based on a lock file not being there
17:57 < NGC3982> which was never removed when migrating
17:57 < NGC3982> phogg: thanks a bunch, mate.
18:01 < doublehp> i am trying to configure an ALPS touchpad with libinput; depending on if an external USB mouse was plugged at boot time, and if laptop have been in sleep mode, the touchpad may be called ALPS or PS/2 GENERIC MOUSE, and won't have always the same ID. By over declaring all statements, I can bypass this issue. The problem is that depending on how it's called, and it's history, it may have the horizontal scroll property or not; I had it after boot, a
18:01 < BlueProtoman> I dual-boot Ubuntu and Windows, but I keep a third partition full of common data (code, music, homework, etc.) so I don't have to copy it between OSes.  However, I can't move anything on this common partition to the trash.  Why is that?
18:01 < doublehp> How do I ask Xorg to keep the hor scroll feature after coming out of sleep state ?
18:02 < jml2> BlueProtoman, cuz you dont have permissions set properly.
18:03 < BlueProtoman> jml2: "Unable to find or create trash directory for <file>"?  Okay, what file/directory do I need to set the permissions for?
18:03 < doublehp> "libinput button scrolling button", property number 288 (but this number seems to change from machine to machine in google; there is absolutely not a single stable or reliable thing in libinput; as much unpredictable and bugged as windows millenium)
18:03 < doublehp> things were much easier and more stable with synaptics
18:03 < tokam> Hello
18:04 < tokam> how is it possible https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/pdYdJtcP2P/
18:04 < tokam> that I get permission denied (as root)
18:05 < doublehp> tokam: example: trying to write on read only disk
18:05 < revel> tokam: What does `cat /sys/kernel/security/lsm` say?
18:05 < doublehp> tokam: trying to write in read only folder
18:05 < tokam> cat: /sys/kernel/security/lsm: No such file or directory
18:06 < doublehp> tokam: when kernel is not in mood (SE linux, PAM ... )
18:06 < tokam> kernel knows only these folders
18:06 < tokam> fscaps         profiling      uevent_seqnum
18:06 < tokam> It is a vm-ware
18:06 < tokam> from strato
18:06 < revel> doublehp: It's rw-r--r-- though.
18:07 < doublehp> tokam: NIS may also do that
18:08 < V7> Hm
18:08 < revel> tokam: I'm guessing the value is just too high.
18:08 < eightball> lol https://pastebin.com/PDKe5NQm
18:08 < revel> Though I think that'd give a different error.
18:08 < V7> ssh -o NumberOfPasswordPrompts=0 will output Permission denied (publickey,password).
18:08 < tokam> revel: interesting
18:09 < tokam> I had the value from a tutorial
18:09 < tokam> this one
18:09 < tokam> https://support.plesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/213411429?page=1#comment_360000262173
18:09 < revel> 655350 seems like a strange number to me.
18:10 < tokam> revel: the default is: 65536 (with reference to plesk)
18:10 < tokam> and the number is also rejected
18:10 < revel> 65530 is my default.
18:10 < tokam> 655 is also rejected
18:10 < doublehp> tokam: I don't understand what you are trying to do, but, this error message is not surprising at all in /proc or /sys ; I have no clue what you are trying to do, but,  /proc is letting you communicate directly with drivers; this error message means that the driver is not willing to listen to you
18:11 < revel> And 65530 works.
18:11 < revel> Though so does 655350
18:11 < tokam> doublehp: I have it from here: https://support.plesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/213411429?page=1#comment_360000262173
18:11 < doublehp> tokam: and this kind of error message is much better than a working echo which would have no effect at all
18:12 < tokam> I get the error message also when editing /etc/sysctl.conf and running sysctl -p
18:12 < revel> tokam: Wait, where are you trying to execute this in?
18:12 < doublehp> tokam: I have spent 4 days in trying to by my mouse do scrolling; tutorials from 18months ago are outdated. A simple hair can be worst than a bit of sand. There are tons of reaons that can make a tutorial not work for you
18:13 < tokam> revel: a virtuose vmware
18:13 < doublehp> tokam: you are missing some support somwhere else; trying to change the value an other way won't help; you have to find why your driver is not willing to listen to you:
18:13 < tokam> virtuoso
18:14 < revel> A VMWare virtual machine? That takes one option out.
18:14 < doublehp> tokam: kernel version, patches applied, driver versions, dependencies (of modules) ... and since the tutorial probably don't give any of this, you don't have any way to know
18:16 < tokam> actually I have this issue
18:16 < tokam> https://talk.plesk.com/threads/down-after-plesk-update.339575/
18:16 < doublehp> tokam: for example, allowing large allocation is very probably dependant on the type of CPU: I mean, an ARM64 is completely different from an AMD64, which is much less powerfull than an Alpha EV56 ...
18:16 < doublehp> tokam: this kind of allocation may also depend on kernel boot arguments
18:17 < royal_screwup21> I want to make some test changes on my system. I want to enter a "virtual environment" that'll allow my to make these changes without affecting my actual system. Is it possible to do this?
18:17 < doublehp> tokam: not being specific about architecture is critical
18:17 < MrElendig> royal_screwup21: that is what virtual machines / containers are fro
18:17 < MrElendig> for*
18:18 < royal_screwup21> MrElendig: thanks, off to googling how to activate a virtual environment
18:19 < jml2> royal_screwup21, never heard of something called virtualbox?
18:20 < uplime> vmware is pretty nice too
18:20 < doublehp> xen
18:20 < doublehp> qemu
18:21 < revel> Depending on what you want, a chroot could be fine too.
18:21 < doublehp> and *MANY* other ones
18:22 < eightball> chroot is always fun.
18:25 < eightball> i find it hilarious you can just make faces at bash and it will crash. :(){ :|: & };:
18:26 < pnbeast> I think you can get banned for that kind of thing, eightball.
18:30 < prussian> i find a lot of things hilarious and abasic process exhaustion bug isn't really that shocking
18:30 < phogg> eightball: to say it will "Crash" is incorrect, it will take down your entire machine. Don't post stuff like that without a dire warning.
18:32 < BlueProtoman> But it won't *destroy* your machine, right?  It'll just force you to reboot
18:33 < BlueProtoman> Which may not be a big deal for a personal computer, but yes I can see why that would be a big problem for a server
18:33 < Dagmar> Either way, someone might have other unsaved work on their machine
18:33 < Dagmar> Only lamers post that
18:33 < phogg> or an unclean shutdown may corrupt a filesystem
18:33 < prussian> pretty easy to be with proper limits set anyhow
18:33 < revel> prussian: It's not really a bug though.
18:34 < Dagmar> If you learned Python you can learn Java
18:34 < phogg> it's not a bug in any way
18:35 < eightball> phogg... sorry. it was quite correct. i just didn't specify how much it would crash.
18:35 < Dagmar> eightball: Don't be an idiot
18:35 < eightball> no, it's not a bug.
18:36 < prussian> if you really want to crash bash, just recursively call a function. it doesn't have a default recursion limit for some reason. youcan set one though.
18:36 < eightball> dagmar... it was only meant as a joke.
18:37 < Lanz> Does anyone here have experience with an AMD Ryzen APU powered laptop?
18:37 < eightball> use that for windows or as a door stop.
18:38 < Lanz> Lmfao.
18:38 < Lanz> Support's still in that bad of shape even with 4.16?
18:38 < Psi-Jack> Lanz: Asking to ask == silly. Asking real questions is better.
18:38 < Psi-Jack> Ryzen works just fine.
18:38 < Lanz> I'm considering buying one, but I know that the APU support was god awful with 4.15
18:39 < Psi-Jack> I wonder if AMD/ASMedia got firmware fixes out for Ryzenfall yet.
18:40 < Dagmar> It's an integrated GPU.
18:40 < Dagmar> Don't expect it to show you zillions of triangles
18:40 < dgurney> the ryzen APUs are actually quite decent
18:41 < Lanz> The question is not about performance, it's about whether you can boot and use them without glitching and crashes lol
18:41 < Psi-Jack> What is "APU"?
18:41 < Lanz> No integrated GPU is great, Dagmar
18:41 < revel> Psi-Jack: The Indian guy from The Simpsons.
18:42 < Dagmar> Do I *really* have to say "They all suck" to not be misinterpreted?
18:42 < Lanz> An APU is a CPU with an integrated GPU in the same package
18:42 < Psi-Jack> ...
18:42 < revel> Alternatively, what Lanz said.
18:42 < Psi-Jack> AMD's creating a new acronym for THAT?
18:42 < Lanz> They didn't create the acronym, but sure
18:42 < Dagmar> APUs perform only _marginaly_ better than IGPUs
18:42 < Lanz> Eg the Ryzen 2500u and 2700u chips
18:43 < Dagmar> They're useful for some light GL and perhaps streaming the video from your *actual* video card
18:43 < Dagmar> The extra cores are handy if you're a math nerd
18:43 < Psi-Jack> AMD Accelerated Processing Unit (APU) -- So, yeah, AMD did create the acronym. :p
18:44 < Lanz> I have a use case for the chip lol, the question isn't about whether a use case exists or what the acronym is
18:44 < Psi-Jack> Lanz: Well, do you know about the current 4 major vulnerabilities of AMD Ryzen?
18:44 < dgurney> come on, you've come to a linux channel, did you really expect to not have unrelated opinions shoved at you :P
18:45 < eightball> cores? ooooh.... sexy
18:45 < Psi-Jack> Ryzenfall, Masterkey, Fallout, and Chimera
18:45 < Lanz> I'm aware of Ryzenfall and don't much care
18:45 < eightball> i want a pair of new servers to run my cloud with 16 cores each socket
18:45 < eightball> *drools*
18:45 < eightball> 192G ram each hypervisor
18:45 < Lanz> Lol dgurney, as a Linux user since 2001, I am fully aware
18:45 < eightball> 20G of bandwidth agg
18:46 < eightball> then let's talk at least same for shared storage
18:46 < eightball> then again maybe i should cluster that in 5 nodes with 3 storage mirrors all running raid 50
18:48 < Dagmar> Well, I've poked two people who havet hem now.  Neither is having issues.
18:49 < Psi-Jack> Lanz: Well, as long as you're aware. I'm an AMD man myself. Actually kinda pissed with ASMedia more than anything with the whole issues they engineered into their chips.
18:49 < Dagmar> Apparently there were some issues like, a year ago
18:50 < Lanz> So I did some googling and came across some people on Phoronix who haven't had any luck getting X to work and be stable on the AMD Ryzen APUs
18:51 < Lanz> I've answered my own question: avoid for now
18:51 < MrElendig> Lanz: 4.17 will improve it quite a bit
18:52 < Lanz> One can hope - I'm tired of my Broadwell Thinkpad X1 Carbon. The 4 GB of RAM was a bad choice and the machine is showing its age... would love to upgrade to a Ryzen for some decent GPU performance in the ultrabook form factor, if it'd work.
18:52 < Dagmar> Interesting that they have a benchmark on threadrippers from last month that doesn't mention "crashes per hour" at all
18:53 < MrElendig> the 2xxxG's have some power useage issues though
18:53 < MrElendig> too
18:53 < MrElendig> and are pretty much not available in any decent laptop
18:53 < Lanz> The Acer Swift 3 is a decent machine (surprising I know, given that it's Acer)
18:53 < Lanz> My cousin has the Intel model and IMO the build quality is good for the price
18:53 < MrElendig> s/decent/pretty much trash/
18:54 < eightball> it's nice to be fully HA at home. twin switches load balancing all the way to the edge. vmware cluster with a SAN.
18:54 < Lanz> Speaking from any experience with that model at all, MrElendig?
18:54 < MrElendig> battery life on it is pretty much facepalm
18:54 < Lanz> That's true for any AMD laptop
18:54 < MrElendig> Lanz: tested one for a couple of days (intel variant)
18:54 < Lanz> Aside from battery, any other snags?
18:54 < eightball> even the wireless is HA dual ubiquti ac pros with redundant links to switches
18:55 < Lanz> As a prospective buyer, I'm curious about your experience
18:55 < eightball> i got battery... 3U of it.
18:55 < Lanz> I only used his for like 30 mins
18:55 < Dagmar> It'll probably be hard to get hipsters to shut up about how poorly it performs as a supercomputing cluster
18:55 < eightball> you wanna play with supers?
18:55 < eightball> let's talk IB
18:55 < MrElendig> had a badly machined hinge with some "sticking" points, and the touchpad wasn't exactly what you would call responsive
18:55 < eightball> i used to support IB for intel.
18:56 < eightball> they also bought that from qlogic.
18:56 < eightball> i got both certs
18:56 < Lanz> Agreed on the touchpad, I did notice that. I always rock a mouse though so I didn't care much
18:56 < MrElendig> panel was pretty mhee (1080p variant)
18:56 < eightball> divide the job and crunch it.
18:56 < MrElendig> colour accuracy was non-existing
18:56 < Lanz> That's fair. It is IPS though, and I'd be upgrading from a TN panel
18:56 < eightball> i love IB... you can even have some limited TCP/IP on IB
18:57 < eightball> i used to work on IB for NASA and other shit.
18:57 < eightball> *shrugs*
18:57 < pnbeast> Wow, you got *certs*?  Hey, everyone, we have a certified, um, person, here.
18:57 < eightball> lol
18:58 < eightball> i think nothing of the certs.
18:58 < Dagmar> Shucks.  I was about to ask how much marketing material you had to memorize for those
18:58 < pnbeast> And he even got *two* of them!  TWO CERTS!!!!
18:58 < eightball> they don't hand those certs out like candy though. they only give it to people that work for them.
18:58 < doublehp> pnbeast: he worked for Intel !!!
18:58 < doublehp> pnbeast: he should be hang !!!!
18:58 < eightball> lol
18:59 < pnbeast> We may as well just rename the channel to ##eightball.  Can we do that?
18:59 < eightball> yeah i worked for a lot of people over the years
18:59 < eightball> yeah... let's not do that.
18:59 < eightball> lol
18:59 < pnbeast> Oddly enough, there was no danger, eightball.
18:59 < eightball> not unless you can that fork bomb and got pissed at me cuz you're naive.
19:00 < eightball> shall i can it and dist it on git?
19:01 < doublehp> pnbeast: I think that all Linux contributors indirectly wworked for almost all companies and gov in the world ... including ... any one good or bad you may thinck about
19:01 < doublehp> think
19:02 < eightball> all bs aside i decrypt more pkts sec on a global scale for things like alexa top 1mill like it's fun and games for a living. *shrugs*
19:02 < eightball> your SSL ain't safe
19:03 < eightball> no onsite appliance.
19:03 < eightball> i have hooks
19:03 < eightball> i do this on a global scale.
19:03 < sauvin> What's IB?
19:03 < eightball> infiniband.
19:06 < eightball> it autoscales in the cloud
19:13 < FreeFull> Is changing the extension of a .conf file in /etc/modprobe.d/ enough to disable it?
19:17 < eightball> rename it to something outside of conformity would suggest it won't get ran
19:20 < mawk> what's the terminal control code for backspace ?
19:22 < revel> ^H ?
19:22 < eightball> :D
19:23 < mawk> that sets the cursor behind, but doesn't delete the letter
19:23 < mawk> like the backspace key on my keyboard
19:23 < mawk> I can do backspace then suppr maybe
19:23 < revel> It does delete the letter for me.
19:24 < mawk> if you overwrite later yes
19:24 < mawk> but if you do echo -e 'aaa\b' you'll see 'aaa' not 'aa'
19:24 < dgurney> I wonder why I didn't remap caps lock to compose earlier
19:25 < dgurney> it's a pretty neat key lol
19:25 < revel> Right, I meant just hitting ^H in a shell.
19:26 < mawk> I'm doing this into an expect script
19:27 < mawk> and emulating a sloppy human typing, see that revel https://asciinema.org/a/Y6unjr6SxozUVPUgpK1HSWKl7
19:48 < Psi-Jack> There we go. transition from gogs to gitea complete.
19:53 < NGC3982> i have this file on a linux machine (rpi) locally. i want to get the latest entry in that file every second to my own machine. i can achieve this by using ssh and tailing the last entry of the file. still, the ssh part takes almost 10 seconds every time. is there any way to get the file content more quickly?
19:53 < Psi-Jack> NGC3982: Syncthing?
19:53 < bipul> Anyone here used FreeBSD?
19:54 < Psi-Jack> bipul: Off-topic.
19:54 < paddy|> and non-intelligent meta question
19:54 < Psi-Jack> paddy|: #meta-discussions
19:54 < Psi-Jack> :)
19:55 < paddy|> :)
19:55 < sauvin> bipul, why are you asking about freebsd?
19:55 < NGC3982> isnt freebsd a distribution of linux?
19:55 < bipul> I see .. so you claim yourself intelligent.
19:55 < dgurney> lol, no
19:55 < Psi-Jack> NGC3982: No
19:55 < NGC3982> "lol"?
19:55 < sauvin> NGC3982, no. Different kernel, different userland and different licensing.
19:55 < Psi-Jack> NGC3982: Laughing Out Loud
19:55 < NGC3982> sauvin: i see. cool.
19:56 < livebrain> different userland ?
19:56 < NGC3982> Psi-Jack: i know. i found it a bit insulting.
19:56 < bipul> sauvin, I 'm using it first time. I though somebody here uses it.
19:56 < dgurney> I wasn't insulting you, but your question
19:56 < Psi-Jack> bipul: There's #freebsd for that.
19:56 < revel> livebrain: As in they don't use GNU coreutils and a bunch of other things are different as well.
19:56 < azarus> NGC3982: ssh shouldn't take that long
19:56 < azarus> try to debug it=
19:56 < azarus> ?*
19:57 < bipul> Psi-Jack, Yes, i will ask there thank you.
19:57 < NGC3982> azarus: oh, i see. ill see what it is up to.
19:57 < Psi-Jack> Don't ask if they use it. Heh
19:57 < noudle> does anyone know how i can print the contents of a buffer as hex using dtrace? as i cant seem to use loops, i can only print using %s or just the first char using %c
19:59 < azarus> NGC3982: ssh -v (optionally, ssh -vv) should help you find out where it takes time
19:59 < eightball> it's the incognito windows that get me in trouble.
19:59 < azarus> (also, feel free to ask ssh related questions in #openssh)
19:59 < NGC3982> azarus: i tried using verbose, and it does not seem to show any apparent issues. didnt know about that -vv thing. thanks :).
20:00 < azarus> NGC3982: ssh has different debug levels
20:00 < azarus> the more v's. the more verbose
20:00 < azarus> I think 3 is the max
20:00 < NGC3982> how curious
20:00 < azarus> It's how many programs work
20:00 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, goodie. Tornado watch. :)
20:01 < sauvin> 'Tis the season for getting blown around, that's a fact.
20:02 < sauvin> On the way home yesterday, I took my car out of gear and let the wind blow me down the highway.
20:02 < azarus> Ayy, manual transmissions.
20:02 < azarus> *thumbs up*
20:03 < azarus> (or just an automatic in neutral?)
20:03 < NGC3982> azarus: when using the more verbose method, it seems the majority of time is spent with trying all my keys in .ssh (this ssh connection uses non-key password auth supplied by sshpass).
20:03 < sauvin> You can do that with an auto, too, but yeah, driving a stick is the only way to go.
20:03 < NGC3982> i guess i could try to make it not try.
20:03 < azarus> NGC3982: try specifying the key you want
20:03 < azarus> don't have it try them all
20:03 < azarus> -o Identityfile=<yourkey>
20:03 < azarus> or just "-i <yourkey>"
20:04 < azarus> sauvin: I like manuals, but dual-clutch is OK in my book too
20:04 < azarus> but autos? no thx
20:06 < NGC3982> azarus: actually, when i read a bit more into ssh i realized i shouldnt really have to close the connection for each event.
20:06 < sauvin> I've never driven a vehicle with a dual clutch, can't comment on how much fun it would be.
20:07 < sauvin> I remember the first auto I ever bought, had been driving a stick for years. Almost killed myself looking for the goddamn clutch that first week.
20:07 < azarus> dual-clutches are in some ways more fun than manuals, in some more tedious
20:08 < azarus> (but that's off-topic)
20:08 < xvzf> hi, a python script gets my annotations from my ebook reader onto stdout and my terminal correctly displays accented characters. Now, if I put them into a file, either via redirection or via the r! ex command in vi, my accented characters become a question mark. What should I do to make this work?
20:12 < hexnewbie> Ah, broken Python. How typical.
20:13 < hexnewbie> xvzf: Is it Python 2 or Python 3 ‘goodness’?
20:13 < xvzf> hexnewbie, 2.7.5
20:14 < xvzf> should I use python 3?
20:14 < hexnewbie> Darn. Python 3 has a -X utf8 option to fix that, or similar issues.
20:15 < dell00> Is /dev/tty mountable?
20:15 < ayecee> no
20:15 < hexnewbie> xvzf: Python 3 reportedly handles unicode better by forcing it, however the improvement is hit-and-miss without ‘-X utf8’, or at least so if ound.
20:15 < hexnewbie> dell00: What do you really want to do?
20:15 < ayecee> /dev/tty is a character device. one mounts block devices.
20:15 < dell00> I thought tty was a block device.
20:15 < ayecee> now you know
20:15 < ayecee> ls -l will show you that
20:15 < dell00> Ok.
20:15 < hexnewbie> dell00: Does your question have anything to do with docker?
20:16 < dell00> hexnewbie: precisely.
20:16 < dell00> Does the `c` in ls -l output for /dev mean character?
20:16 < ayecee> yes
20:16 < hexnewbie> dell00: Are you seeing a bind mount of a block device? Docker tends to do that.
20:16 < hexnewbie> s/block/device file/
20:17 < dell00> hexnewbie: So you're saying Docker might have disguised tty as a block device?
20:18 < hexnewbie> dell00: tty stands for teletype - or nowadays, a terminal (emulator). It's the very definition of a character device. A typerwriter (literally) which inputs character and then outputs them
20:18 < dell00> Ohhh...
20:18 < dell00> So how do I access a tty/
20:18 < dell00> ?
20:18 < hexnewbie> dell00: Hm, no, but I think docker uses a behaviour of bind mounts that I haven't found documented yet. What's your actual question?
20:19 < dell00> Is /dev/tty mountable?
20:19 < hexnewbie> dell00: No, the actual actual question. That lead to ask that. As in, what are you trying to do, fix, or explain
20:19 < dell00> That was my actual question because I was worried that anything in /dev that gets interfered would break something.
20:21 < hexnewbie> dell00: Docker mounts a different instance of /proc and /dev/pts inside its chroots/containers, so its controlling pty is not available inside the container. So it uses bind mount trickery to forward it. I think. Is this related?
20:22 < hexnewbie> And I may be confusing docker with LXC right now.
20:23 < sauvin> The whole concept of docker and lxc and suchlike confuses me. :\
20:23 < dell00> hexnewbie: I have Docker installed on my system, but I'm not using it atm. I'm mounting /proc to /mount/ for testing purposes. And I got a docker notification asking if I want to mount /dev/tty1.
20:24 < dell00> I have no idea why I got that.
20:24 < livebrain> ppl lightest browser ? for watching youtube videos and not much more.
20:24 < dell00> But what you said made sense.
20:24 < azarus> livebrain: for watching yt on limited platforms, I recommend mpv
20:24 < azarus> as a browser, maybe luakit or something
20:25 < hexnewbie> dell00: /dev/tty is a file, and I think docker attempts to bind mount it inside the container as a file (not a device). Bind mounts mount one directory into another directory, but apparently you may do it on (some) files, despite it being not documented anywhere.
20:25 < hexnewbie> dell00: I'm confused as anyone on what actually happens when you do that.
20:26 < dell00> Hm... :/
20:28 < hexnewbie> And also something I can't replicate...
20:28 < TJ-> bind-mounting of files is the same as bind-mounting a directory;  source file overlays target file. target-file must exist as a mountpoint.
20:29 < hexnewbie> Ah, I replicated it. I needed to touch the destination file.
20:29 < livebrain> i really havent used linux for along time... now there is mplayer2 and mpv forks
20:29 < TJ-> LXC has a config mount option to its lxc.mount.entry of create=file or create=dir to make the target for you
20:29 < dell00> So how do I avoid that hexnewbie?
20:30 < sauvin> livebrain, I like mpv a lot but use mplayer when trying to deal with DVD.
20:30 < hexnewbie> dell00: Avoid it?
20:30 < TJ-> dell00: are you saying you got the docker message just through doing a mount operation on the host - not as part of a docker container or its config ?
20:31 < hexnewbie> dell00: How do you exactly mount /proc to /mount/?
20:31 < dell00> I mounted /proc from a different drive to /mount/
20:31 < dell00> As procfs
20:31 < TJ-> dell00: show us the exact command
20:31 < mawk> I've got 3h30 to move my server before my provider deletes it
20:31 < dell00> mount -t proc /mount/user/proc /mount/
20:32 < mawk> I called them but they can't give me a delay, technical limitation they say
20:32 < mawk> the "/mount/user/proc" string is useless dell00
20:32 < mawk> you can just say "proc" or "none"
20:32 < uruk7> how to send a variable into another tty? for exemple -> a=`pwd` > /dev/tty2 but i wold need that $a exists in /dev/tty2
20:32 < dell00> mawk: What?
20:32 < TJ-> mawk: provider deletion? sounds weird
20:32 < rindolf> uruk7: echo?
20:32 < mawk> dell00: mount -t proc putwhateveryouwanthere /mount
20:33 < hexnewbie> Not only it is useless, using a path-like name (or a device-like name) as the name of a proc mount can confuse the hell out of systemd. And probably docker as well
20:33 < TJ-> dell00: do you really mean to do "mount -t proc proc /mount/proc" ?
20:33 < sauvin> Variables don't exist in TTYs. They exist in shells. What you need is some kind of IPC.
20:33 < rindolf> uruk7: you can use ipc or eval
20:33 < mawk> TJ-: the hard drive from the server failed so they gave me a new one and I had one week to move it
20:33 < TJ-> mawk: oh!
20:33 < mawk> and I procrastinated that
20:33 < mawk> now the deadline is midnight
20:33 < uruk7> ipc rindolf?
20:34 < dell00> hexnewbie mawk: thanks.
20:34 < peetaur> mawk: if there's no/low free space, dd is the fastest; if there's lots of free space, rsync ought to be faster
20:34 < peetaur> if it's soft raid1, adding another mirror might be faster
20:35 < mawk> dd with sparse mode should be fast with free space as well no ?
20:35 < rindolf> uruk7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-process_communication
20:35 < mawk> it's hardware raid1
20:35 < mawk> but the server is in a datacenter
20:35 < peetaur> mawk: dd will still read the free space, but rsync will use the file tables to know where the files are and only copy them
20:35 < TJ-> mawk: you're having to move to a different server ?
20:35 < mawk> the new server is in the same datacenter and there's a 100Mbps guaranteed ethernet link between the both so it'll be fast
20:35 < mawk> yeah
20:35 < uruk7> ok ok I resolv thanks rindolf --> eval a=`pwd` > /dev/tty2   --->> THANKSS
20:36 < TJ-> mawk: sounds like rsync with sparse support is the optimum
20:36 < peetaur> and a 2TB disk takes about 5 hours with dd .... 3h30 is cutting it tight
20:36 < mawk> I see peetaur
20:36 < mawk> I have container disks to move, big .img files
20:36 < peetaur> your best scenario is the disk is bad and you can tell them to replace it again to restart the timer :D
20:36 < mawk> no useful file on the host excepted some config files
20:36 < mawk> lol
20:36 < rindolf> uruk7: no
20:37 < rindolf> uruk7: that wont work
20:37 < uruk7> no work
20:37 < FreeFull> Compression can help if the data isn't too random
20:37 < mawk> uruk7: some slight modification and that will work
20:37 < mawk> if we don't speak about the race condition
20:38 < peetaur> mawk: well then hardware raid rebuilding might be fastest... probably faster than dd if it isn't garbage quality hwraid
20:38 < mawk> also a shell should obviously be running on the other tty
20:38 < hexnewbie> Have the federal agents infiltrate the enemy compound, and give them 3h30 to dd a 2TB drive until the alarms sound.
20:38 < mawk> lol
20:38 < uruk7> ok i wrong
20:38 < mawk> I could go into the datacenter if I pay their pro support plan
20:38 < peetaur> but I'm not sure what you mean 'deletes' it....do you mean removes the bad disk?
20:38 < mawk> they disconnect the bad server
20:38 < mawk> leaving me with the new one
20:38 < peetaur> server...?
20:39 < peetaur> I thought you said a disk died... so I guess I am not following
20:39 < mawk> well
20:39 < uruk7> i don't resolv this
20:39 < mawk> a disk from my old server located in a remote datacenter died, so the support gave me a new server (instead of just replacing the disk, yeah that sounds weird)
20:39 < peetaur> so with the disks on separate machines, I'd use rsync... if dd, etc. fail, you'll waste time, but with rsync you just repeat the same command to continue where it left off
20:40 < mawk> yeah, it looks the best way
20:40 < peetaur> and also you can prioritize certain files, doing them first... and copy the rest later, and even skip the OS itself
20:40 < mawk> yeah
20:40 < _KaszpiR_> *cough* backups *cough*
20:40 < mawk> lol
20:40 < mawk> who needs backups with raid
20:40 < _KaszpiR_> raid is not backup
20:41 < peetaur> small hand edited files first... then databases (since half a database is no use... it's corrupt), then small and big data files which if interrupted sucks but doesn't break it all
20:41 < infinisil> I think mawk was sarcastic
20:41 < peetaur> who = everyone who cares about their data
20:41 < infinisil> hope
20:41 < mawk> yeah
20:41 < peetaur> raid is to get higher availability...like turned unplanned emergency maintenance into planned maintenance
20:41 < prussian> pft. just put it in the cloud bro
20:42 < _KaszpiR_> then you need 3 copies of it ;)
20:42 < peetaur> yeah if you have more money than technical skills, put it on the cloud
20:42 < peetaur> but if you want to be efficient, there are many cases where the cloud is the worst by far
20:42 < infinisil> I'm thinking about forming a mutual backup agreement with some friends, such that we store each others data, would be super cheap
20:42 < _KaszpiR_> it really depends
20:43 < jimlei> peetaur: I'd recommend it for most users, but only as an additional copy. having it in your own "cloud"  is rather easy to set up today. But adding a cloud provider as another backup can't help
20:43 < hexnewbie> Come on, if you have a RAID the only reason you'd need backup is if both drives fail, someone accidentally deletes a file, your filesystem gets corrupted, somebody nukes the data centre, somebody spills their coke on the server, or the roaches decide to fight back.
20:44 < _KaszpiR_> haha
20:44 < _KaszpiR_> I'd say human error is most common
20:44 < jimlei> these days with users getting every crypto virus they can get their hands on (or so it seems) any backup solution used should provide some sort of versioned solution. if you can't roll back from the last copy then the backup isn't worth much these days
20:44 < Psi-Jack> Heh. I have my 530GB of backups between desktop and laptop, that's compressed and deduplicated to 28GB.
20:45 < Psi-Jack> Full systems, no less. :)
20:45 < bonhoeffer> is there a way to test a graphics card from in a nomodeset linux instance?
20:45 < _KaszpiR_> bonhoeffer if it supports cuda/opencl then you may check if it works
20:45 < hexnewbie> Psi-Jack: Dedupped using hardlinks or filesystem feature?
20:46 < bonhoeffer> it does -- XFX Radeon R9 380 R9-380P-4255 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI
20:46 < Psi-Jack> hexnewbie: borgbackup.
20:46 < bonhoeffer> _KaszpiR_: here is my boot dmesg: https://gist.github.com/tbbooher/3e3a43c9e464535e9e81d05d5c6d07b1
20:46 < infinisil> Oh but ultimately the word "backup" isn't really useful, you should rather think about what scenarios you want to protect against, and a raid does protect against some
20:46 < hexnewbie> Psi-Jack: Oh, that sounds even cooler.
20:46 < Psi-Jack> hehe
20:47 < Psi-Jack> hexnewbie: Been reaaaaaally liking borgbackup since I started using it.
20:47 < Psi-Jack> I backup to my NAS, my NAS backs up to backblaze b2, and consumes very little space.
20:48 < hexnewbie> infinisil: The trick being that you also need to think about protecting against scenarios you didn't think of.
20:48 < _KaszpiR_> bonhoeffer and why you booted in nomodeset?
20:49 < bonhoeffer> _KaszpiR_: because my monitor flickered and lost all contact otherwise
20:49 < bonhoeffer> i can run all day in this mode though
20:49 < bonhoeffer> i'm really confused what is going on
20:50 < _KaszpiR_> you got black screen on ubunu?
20:50 < Psi-Jack> hexnewbie: And then, I have a custom-made (very easily), ArchISO ISO on my mutli-boot USB that has borg to be able to fully recover any backup I need. :)
20:51 < _KaszpiR_> recently I had similiar problem, adding 'ideo=vesafb:ywrap,mtrr:3' to kernel options fixed it
20:51 < revel> :3
20:51 < bonhoeffer> _KaszpiR_: yeah -- and win10 was running, but i couldn't do any possible repair
20:52 < bonhoeffer> super frustrating -- i think some type of hardware error happened, the win error was a thread exception
20:52 < Psi-Jack> The only repair to Windows is removal of Windows.
20:52 < bonhoeffer> Psi-Jack: yeah
20:52 < bonhoeffer> i just can't believe how insecure windows is
20:52 < Psi-Jack> I can. They've proven it over the past 20 years. :p
20:53 < Psi-Jack> Consistently.
20:53 < dgurney> eh, it's not really that bad thesedays security-wise provided the user doesn't do something stupid
20:53 < Psi-Jack> Wrong. :)
20:53 < hexnewbie> Or it enables the user to do something stupid
20:54 < dgurney> do you want to elaborate, or..?
20:54 < bonhoeffer> dgurney: they have done such great work -- win10 is so much better than anything else
20:55 < Psi-Jack> Not better than Linux.
20:55 < Psi-Jack> Nor BSD, nor macOS, nor *
20:55 < bonhoeffer> ok -- i just installed ubuntu and, yes, get a black screen on install
20:55 < bonhoeffer> sorry, on startup
20:55 < livebrain> its better for some stuff Psi-Jack worst for another
20:55 < Psi-Jack> I completely disagree. heh
20:55 < klotz> the only example i can think of right now is gaming
20:56 < livebrain> inkscape its cool, but its not illustrator or coreldraw
20:56 < Psi-Jack> Which Linux can do better.
20:56 < livebrain> gimp its cool but its not photoshop
20:56 < livebrain> and video editing software is the same
20:56 < livebrain> running inkscape you need some super computer when working compared to corel or illustrator
20:57 < dgurney> that's not true
20:57 < Psi-Jack> So not true.
20:57 < livebrain> it is
20:57 < dgurney> but what is true is that a lot of people are used to the software you mention
20:57 < livebrain> i work every day with inkscape
20:57 < livebrain> and with coreldraw
20:57 < sauvin> actually, yes, I'd generally put Windows version * pretty much at the bottom of the heap.
21:00 < dgurney> I don't see the point in ranking operating systems
21:00 < ayecee> some ranker you are
21:00 < Psi-Jack> While it is true. GIMP is no PhotoShop. There's many a things GIMP is better at working with than PhotoShop as well. In example, large images, such as maps, specifically flood data maps as an example. GIMP can work with such things with extreme speed while Photoshop will drag its heals.
21:02 < Psi-Jack> That's a very specific edge case, but a great example of dealing with VERY LARGE images.
21:03 < livebrain> example: in my line of work i need sometimes to print 1000 cards all numerated from 0000 to 1000 a nd put 25 cards in every sheet with crop marks for every card
21:03 < dgurney> but on the other hand, GIMP's user interface isn't very good... sure, Adobe could improve some things, but I've *always* found gimp much more confusing to use
21:04 < pnbeast> Psi-Jack, are they life size?  Does it say "1 mile = 1 mile" in the bottom, right corner?
21:04 < livebrain> doing that in inkscape/scribus ? forget it lol
21:04 < mawk> here I go, the transfer will take 40min at 100 MB/s
21:04 < mawk> it's the only important data I have, the rest is just configurations I've spent days on
21:04 < mawk> but just text
21:04 < jimlei> I think the only issue I've had in Linux in years have been crap support for lots of ac wifi cards. the ones I've had that worked haven't given anywhere close to ac speeds (like you can get on.. other... os's). thankful for any advise btw as I'm looking to get a new one
21:05 < livebrain> coreldraw will take 1 or 2 minutes to do so. so...
21:05 < jimlei> (desktop, room for full pci)
21:05 < Psi-Jack> pnbeast: heh. I have no specifics, just what my brother's told me, as he deals with that on an everyday basis. When he introduced gimp from a portable installed thumbdrive, the entire company was mind boggled by the efficiency (and cost)
21:05 < pnbeast> Nice.
21:05 < Psi-Jack> jimlei: Intel or Atheros, the only WNIC's that matter.
21:07 < Psi-Jack> So, some interesting news. TLS 1.3 is out, and they did it RIGHT, working with the entire community in an open forum fashion. On other news, the WiFi Alliance is again "doing it wrong" and using a completely closed forum to develop WPA3, once again.
21:08 < Psi-Jack> When will the WiFi Alliance learn?
21:09 < Psi-Jack> Exactly! It is nonsense! ;}
21:11 < dgurney> personally, the main reasons why I still use Windows are: 1) being interested in how the system evolves, 2) need iTunes for my iOS devices, and most importantly, 3) gaming
21:12 < SuperSeriousCat> #2 can be done in WINE
21:12 < SuperSeriousCat> 3# too to some extent
21:12 < _KaszpiR_> if only they released starcraft1 to linux....
21:12 < Psi-Jack> SuperSeriousCat: Incorrect. No USB support in WINE to date yet.
21:13 < dgurney> indeed.
21:13 < THX1338> when starcraft 1 will be released to linux?
21:13 < ayecee> tomorrow
21:13 < ayecee> funny you should ask
21:13 < revel> Psi-Jack: Wait, 1.3 is officially out?
21:13 < hexnewbie> In about 4.5 hours
21:13 < ||JD||> blizzard never was *nix friendly, they are too afraid about haxxors
21:13 < THX1338> Hell ya, lets play a FFA game, 8 players then
21:13 < dgurney> and #3, sure. you can use Wine (which might not always work correctly without tweaking), or a native port (which might not actually perform as well as the Windows version)
21:14 < livebrain> stacraft rules :)
21:14 < THX1338> I love this game, will be nice if they really put that to run in *nix
21:14 < livebrain> boutgh the remastered
21:14 < THX1338> But works nice with wine too
21:14 < Psi-Jack> revel: Yes
21:14 < dgurney> example: I tried running Borderlands 2 on Linux. The game runs, but the framerate is just not as smooth as on Windows
21:14 < phre4k> hi guys, I have a problem with a server – there's a KVM guest on it, which is online, but the server's SSHD is not reachable. This is shown in the mainboard's IPMI console: https://i.imgur.com/5e3HOEC.png
21:15 < revel> Psi-Jack: Nice, where'd you hear about it?
21:15 < Psi-Jack> revel: It's finalized, and we're keeping the PFS stuff fully in tact, and no downgrades. The banks lost their lobby.
21:15 < Psi-Jack> revel: SecurityNow podcast.
21:15 < THX1338> dgurney, hardcore try
21:15 < phre4k> "kvm [1262]: vcpu0, guest rIP: oxfffff80149f72c53 kvm_set_msr_common: MSR_IA32_DEBUGCTLMSR 0x1, nop" → what does that mean?
21:16 < dgurney> example 2: Civilization V runs on Linux quite smoothly, but the native port had some flickering issues on my desktop when I tried it. additionally, some textures looked off
21:16 < dgurney> example 3: Civilization VI was missing textures when I last tried it
21:16 < revel> Psi-Jack: PFS? "lost their lobby"?
21:16 < THX1338> dgurney, did you post your research in any place?
21:17 < revel> Right, perfect forward secrecy.
21:17 < royal_screwup21> when you sudo apt-get install <some_package>, what package repository are you specifically calling?
21:18 < Psi-Jack> revel: There was some conflicts for TLS1.3 to allow terminating in a similar way that it is now, and banks were the biggest ones against it. How do you feel about banks keeping all your financial history TLS terminated and insecure within? ;)
21:18 < THX1338> royal_screwup21, check the /etc/apt/sources.list
21:18 < THX1338> royal_screwup21, this file has the repos that apt use to download packages
21:19 < royal_screwup21> alrighty, thanks
21:19 < Psi-Jack> Though it does seem that Wine 3.5+ is working towards getting USB support /FINALLY/.
21:19 < revel> Psi-Jack: I don't know what the terminating stuff is. Guess I'll look it up then.
21:19 < THX1338> royal_screwup21, np, let me know if you solve your problem
21:19 < revel> Psi-Jack: Oh, MITM, basically?
21:20 < phre4k> ok now I managed to see the sshd journal and it says "failed to release session: interrupted system call" – dayum
21:20 < Psi-Jack> revel: Having something like nginx, apache, haproxy being the TLS endpoint, proxying insecurely the rest of the way. Yes.
21:20 < dgurney> THX1338, no, I didn't, because pretty much every issue I've had has been documented somewhere
21:20 < hexnewbie> Sadly, a SANE-to-TWAIN bridge with Wine is not really a possibility even with USB, because TWAIN is not a sane API. (Does Windows still use that?)
21:21 < dgurney> oh, and occasionally I've had steam titles not loading up at all on rolling distributions
21:21 < dgurney> but all that negative stuff being said, I can safely say that Wine shines for older titles
21:22 < THX1338> dgurney: okay then. The time I play SC1 with wine, i just play offline, I don't check the multiplayer
21:22 < FreeFull> Wine lets you run Win16 programs
21:22 < FreeFull> Something you can't do in 64-bit versions of Windows
21:22 < dgurney> I mostly play Simcity 3000 using wine
21:23 < hexnewbie> Only thing I really use Wine for, TBH :)
21:24 < FreeFull> hexnewbie: Simcity 3000?
21:24 < hexnewbie> Win16 programs
21:25 < dgurney> which ones?
21:25 < FreeFull> Yeah. It's either Wine or running an old version of Windows in a virtual machine
21:25 < FreeFull> ReactOS might support Win16 programs too, I haven't checked
21:26 < hexnewbie> dgurney: Two dozen Windows 3.1 games from time to time
21:26 < dgurney> oh, neat
21:26 < FreeFull> Kyo?
21:26 < hexnewbie> For the memory of the good old days :D
21:26 < mawk> even on a prety performant server, rsync -z --rsh='ssh -C' takes 100% CPU, is that normal ?
21:26 < mawk> same with rsync -zz
21:27 < FreeFull> Hm, maybe it wasn't called Kyo
21:27 < dgurney> SkiFree? :P
21:27 < hexnewbie> mawk: To be fully performant, rsync must saturate something at 100% - either disk, network or CPU. If it does not, it is not fully performant.
21:27 < FreeFull> Kye, that was it
21:27 < FreeFull> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kye_(video_game) Even has a Wikipedia article
21:27 < mawk> but then transfer speed drops from 120 MB/s to 30 MB/s hexnewbie
21:28 < mawk> I'd prefer network to be saturated
21:28 < hexnewbie> dgurney: I have that one one too, but I am (still) so bad at it I mostly go down to be eaten by the bear/trashcan thing
21:28 < FreeFull> hexnewbie: Even after speeding up?
21:29 < FreeFull> https://xkcd.com/667/
21:29 < hexnewbie> mawk: Well, it's the CPU that is saturated, not the network, so that's normal. -z may reduce speed unless your network speed is horrible or your files compress really well
21:30 < dgurney> heh
21:30 < FreeFull> Ideally you circumvent the CPU with really fast DMA
21:30 < FreeFull> If you're not bottlenecked by other things
21:30 < mawk> it almost never useful then
21:30 < mawk> or maybe by reducing compression level
21:31 < hexnewbie> FreeFull: Holy. Just tried that. It works.
21:31 < FreeFull> hexnewbie: I've never played SkiFree, I only know about that because of that xkcd comic
21:33 < jmadero> hi all - what's the easiest way to check to see if all directories in one location exist in another location?
21:33 < mawk> some bash script
21:33 < jmadero> for example I have A,B,C directories in /mount/test/ and I want to see if A,B,C exist in /media/test1/
21:33 < jmadero> mawk: I know as much as that
21:33 < jmadero> trying to write the bash script now
21:34 < FreeFull> jmadero: Including contents?
21:34 < jmadero> FreeFull: no, just the directory itself, and non-recursive
21:35 < FreeFull> You can probably do something with find
21:36 < o|0o^|> one level of directories?  find . -type d -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1
21:36 < Psi-Jack> find all-the-things
21:36 < jmadero> I think I got it
21:36 < FreeFull> No need to specify mindepth
21:36 < mawk> it will say ., FreeFull
21:36 < FreeFull> Ah, ok
21:36 < o|0o^|> no need to include .
21:36 < FreeFull> Replace the . with the directory you want to check
21:36 < o|0o^|> in the output
21:36 < jmadero> "all-the-stuff" changes routinely
21:37 < eightball> fuck with it again i take your life
21:37 < jmadero> basically making a script to move crap from USB drive to external
21:37 < Psi-Jack> eightball: Kindly mind the language.
21:37 < FreeFull> jmadero: Could you just use rsync?
21:37 < eightball> kindly stay the fuck out of my boxes
21:37 < go|dfish> rsync
21:37 < eightball> or die
21:37 < mawk> ok eightball
21:37 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Handy?
21:37 < eightball> it's not a request it's a fucking balls out demand
21:37 < o|0o^|> eightball: did you run some facebook javascript webgame?
21:37 < FreeFull> evilchuck: Who was doing what with your boxes?
21:38 < FreeFull> Ok
21:38 < FreeFull> Sorry chuck
21:38 < jmadero> I debated if I wanted to use rsync
21:38 < FreeFull> rsync makes it rather easy
21:38 < jmadero> I suppose I probably could, just means organizing my flash drives slightly differently
21:38 < jmadero> yeah I use it for backups already
21:39 < Psi-Jack> jmadero: borgbackup is your friend. For backups. :)
21:39 < Psi-Jack> You will be assimilated.
21:40 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, what's up?
21:41 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: They left already. eightball.
21:41  * sauvin reads backscroll
21:42 < sauvin> Yeah, a candidate.
21:42 < pnbeast> Hey, don't be talkin' mean about eightball.  He has certificates.
21:43 < jmadero> and a bit of a paranoia complexity :-b
21:43 < pnbeast> Oh?  I ignored him after he seemed like he was under the influence of something.
21:44 < jmadero> ah I remember why I wasn't a fan of rsync for my task
21:44 < blackflag_bfp> under the influence is how some of us live
21:45 < jmadero> I'd like A/SubA/stuff to be moved to A/ (i.e., not create sub directories of parent directory on target)
21:45 < pnbeast> Sure, and I'm good with that.  I should have been explicit:  under the influence of something malignant to normal human interaction.
21:45 < bonhoeffer> anyone know how i can force linux to use my graphics card not the default poor resolution
21:45 < eightball> touch my boxen it's gonna be cut throat  fun
21:45 < Psi-Jack> Heh. Updating zsh sometimes can be a bit wierd with the zcompile zwc recompiles.
21:45 < eightball> warned
21:45  * sauvin is under the influence of massive quantities of caffeine, taurine, sucrose and various dairy solids found in cold pizza
21:45 < pnbeast> bonhoeffer, xranr doesn't let you choose what you want to do?
21:45 < sauvin> eightball, take a pill.
21:45 < eightball> nope
21:45 < pnbeast> bonhoeffer, er, xrandr
21:46 < eightball> i'd rather waste time on a pcap
21:46 < msiism> is there a way of manipulating the text output of, e.g., a cli media player (like mplayer) through the shell (bash)?
21:46 < jmadero> can someone just ban him/her, obviously needs to be banished
21:46 < bonhoeffer> pnbeast: i'm on ubuntu -- i don't see it immediately
21:46 < blackflag_bfp> tollalala>
21:46 < blackflag_bfp> ?
21:46 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: That'll be $5.
21:46 < eightball> lol
21:47 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: noy in the mood  ;P
21:47 < eightball> don't make yourself a target
21:47 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: Hey, your words. I'm just providing the toll. :)
21:47 < eightball> ain't no toll
21:47 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: lol sry long night
21:47 < eightball> but the trolls will still pay dearly
21:47 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: "sry?"
21:47 < eightball> :D
21:47 < sauvin> eightball, take a pill or move it to another channel.
21:48 < blackflag_bfp> eightball: ok i'll bite, target of what?
21:48 < jmadero> sauvin: problem is he's clearly already on some kind of pill :-b
21:48 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: Psst.. No need to engage. :)
21:48 < eightball> added to ignore list
21:48 < sauvin> I sit corrected. Take an antipill.
21:48 < pnbeast> bonhoeffer, isn't it part of the X server on your distro?
21:48 < eightball> spam my screen with idle threats
21:49 < pnbeast> bonhoeffer, oh, maybe X server utilities?  Do you have those installed?
21:49 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: but engagement is what I have been trained for. sry=sorry for my habits.
21:49 <@sauvin> This isn't an idle threat.
21:49 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: Correct to "sorry" in the future, please. :)
21:49 < eightball> piss me off i have you running bgp replays to find where i  ass fucked you
21:50 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: sorry I thought I just performed the actions required of me.
21:50 < jmadero> lol
21:50 < jmadero> power of God sauvin
21:50 < blackflag_bfp> guten nacht eightball
21:50 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Guard your bgp. :)
21:50 < sauvin> What the FRACK is a "bgp"?
21:50 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Border Gateway Protocol
21:50 < jmadero> big god pooper
21:51 < revel> Big Gay Peter.
21:51 < uplime> sauvin: what is an antipill?
21:51 < jmadero> thus the reference to a$$ f***
21:51 < revel> Big Gay Al's cousin.
21:51 < sauvin> jmadero, that wasn't the power of God. That was the power of a grumpy old man with loads of gas and a metal baseball bat.
21:51 < guzzlefry> howdy
21:51 < jmadero> sauvin: same difference :-D
21:51 < blackflag_bfp> sauvin: Word!
21:51 < sauvin> OK, so, what's a "border gateway protocol"?
21:51 < revel> sauvin: Loads of gas? Go to a doctor about that.
21:52 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: It's how the internet routes, actually.
21:52 < phogg> sauvin: Earlier he was talking about pcap, so border gateway protocol seems the most likely.
21:52 < sauvin> So, basically, big honking routers.
21:52 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Well, not necessarily big. :)
21:52 < phogg> not necessarily big, just things sitting at the edge of netwerks
21:52 < phogg> networks*
21:52 < Psi-Jack> And provides routing rules. ;)
21:53 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: so this tmuxinator is a way to automaye tmux. Prety cool actually.
21:53 < uplime> so its a protocol for edge routers to talk to each other?
21:53 < Psi-Jack> You have to have an ASN and at least a full /24 block to get BGP, though.
21:53 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: I need no automation for tmux.
21:54 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: ok then.
21:55 < Psi-Jack> I mean, I have a very solid tmux configuration that I actually like, and keybindings that don't suck.
21:55 < Psi-Jack> What's to "automate" about it?
21:55 < guzzlefry> I have a directory with a bunch of docker volume mounts in it. I've set the current and default ACL rules recursively to rwx for my normal user, but for some reason I still get 'permission denied' when trying to access it. Output of `getfacl` is http://dpaste.com/2FF3TT1 Any ideas?
21:55 < blackflag_bfp> I just thought it was nice to preset your tmux so when you start a new session it sets up the way you like it.
21:56 < blackflag_bfp> I am n00b so probably enticed by shiny stuff
21:57 < blackflag_bfp> atomate it so when you start tmux it sets up your desired default windows, pane locations, and can execute pane comands
21:58 < jmadero> anyone know the command to run the volume applet that Gnome has on the taskbar on top?
21:58 < jmadero> trying to run it in a different distro but can't find the name of it
21:58 < jmadero> (I have it installed)
21:58 < jmadero> and by different distro I obviously mean different DE
21:58 < phogg> jmadero: the GNOME3 applets are actually gnome-shell extensions these days, I believe.
21:58 < sauvin> I need to find my glasses so I can find my coffee cup.
21:59  * phogg isn't sure, doesn't use gnome
21:59 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: tmux is already the way I want it right when I login to my XFCE session with i3. One big zsh shell.
21:59 < Psi-Jack> :)
21:59 < blackflag_bfp> sauvin: just wave your hand out until it knocks it over. That's what I do  :)
21:59 < jmadero> phogg: trying to get a volume applet in an enlightenment panel
21:59 < jmadero> wife is bothering me about how annoying it is for her to change volume on her machine
21:59 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: Though you might like tmux-resurrect
21:59 < phogg> jmadero: e17? Pretty sure it has its own volume control tool
21:59 < jmadero> phogg: it does but it sucks
22:00 < D-rex> gimp is not able to open anymore after an update for my os, I get this error from dmesg when trying to launch "segfault at 7fc5007d2038 ip 00007fc567aa9698 sp 00007ffe0ca770c0 error 4 in libglib-2.0.so.0.5600.1[7fc567a72000+115000]"
22:00 < phogg> D-rex: what is your distribution?
22:00 < D-rex> arch
22:00 < Psi-Jack> D-rex: Tried talking about it in #archlinux?
22:00 < sauvin> May have to rebuild gimp, then.
22:00 < D-rex> yeah
22:00 < phogg> D-rex: in that case I don't know what you expect anybody else to be able to do abut it,.
22:00 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: like I mentioned before I am totally new so I do not have the skillset as one like you, O thought maybe you would like it, I thought wrong. please do not think ill of me. :)
22:01 < Psi-Jack> D-rex: 2 minutes ago?
22:01 < Psi-Jack> D-rex: Crossposting is generally frowned upon yanno.
22:01 < phogg> blackflag_bfp: You can put commands in to your tmux config file. Consult the manual.
22:01 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: I do like the setup so far based on your advide. Thank you!
22:01 < D-rex> why?
22:02 < phogg> D-rex: why what?
22:02 < D-rex> why is it frowned upon?
22:02 < blackflag_bfp> phogg: thank you I am still reading up and learning
22:02 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: I think nothing. Just I'm a hands on person. My co-workers all use tmux-resurrect, I scratch my head at them wondering why they have these huge tmux sessions connected to every server, and.. yeah.
22:02 < sauvin> What's "yanno"?
22:02 < Psi-Jack> You Know*
22:02 < revel> "you know"
22:02 < Psi-Jack> hehe
22:02 < o|0o^|> D-rex: i get this one trying to run gimp 2.9 (gimp-2.9:17): GLib-ERROR **: 23:54:44.285: gmem.c:328: overflow allocating 4294967295*4294967295 bytes
22:02 < Psi-Jack> Slang drawl speak. :)
22:03 < ledeni> jmadero, try to install pavucontrol
22:03 < phogg> Psi-Jack: should be avoided for the same reason we avoid lamer abbreviations like u.
22:03 < Psi-Jack> D-rex: Because you split your focus and ignore resources while they're trying to assist, for starters.
22:04 < D-rex> who did I ignore?
22:04 < Psi-Jack> Not the point.
22:05 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: for the movement of research, would you say that it is better to stick to your guns of an old way when there has been developement of a new way?
22:06 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: I always adapt and learn new things, and improve my overall vast knowledge.
22:07 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, I use Linux
22:07 < blackflag_bfp> Psi-Jack: Thank you. i am not attacking but trying to find the acceptable median between innovation and effectiveness.
22:08  * Psi-Jack gets his swords out and starts sharpening them.
22:10 < blackflag_bfp> jml2: Linux? please explain if you wish.
22:11 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, glad you're not one of those new Kali users lol
22:11 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, thank to Mr Robot, a lot of noobs come on irc and want to sound "pro" just by installing this distribution
22:11 < revel> That was a thing way before then.
22:11 < revel> And with Backtrack before then.
22:11 < Psi-Jack> Well, it's gotten more popular since then. :p
22:12 < Psi-Jack> I have measured an increased flow of Kali Linux neophytes since season 1 episode 1 of Mr Robot.
22:14 < blackflag_bfp> jml2: my goal was to learn basic linux and cli so I am running debain + xfce
22:15 < blackflag_bfp> jml2: I wanted to learn cli and linux, not jst click on icons like , ughh, windows
22:16 < sauvin> I found my coffee cup. Maybe after a couple litres I'll be able to find my glasses.
22:16 < ledeni> jmadero, or run 'gnome-control-center sound'
22:17 < blackflag_bfp> well I am absolutely happy that I am tagged "Not one of those n00bs"  :)
22:17 < sauvin> blackflag_bfp, CLI is actually something of a journey and an art form. What works for me may not work for you because we have different backgrounds and different interests. Just fire up a CLI, read some man pages, drop into here when you get stuck.
22:17 < sauvin> '
22:18 < sauvin> "CLI" isn't an application or a language. It's an environment.
22:18 < pnbeast> And it's normally called a shell.
22:19 < blackflag_bfp> sauvin: thank you. I admit that i fist used this chan as a "hey whats good" but I am slowly learning. That is why I love Linux because it forces you to learn, everyday,allday
22:19 < sauvin> Yeah, and a GUI environment is sometimes called a "graphical shell". A bit more specific to call it a CLI.
22:19 < sauvin> I love Linux because it's packed to the rafters in cool tools to use.
22:20 < revel> Like sl :D
22:20 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, you'll need to learn systemd things as that's the adoption for system administration for mainstream linux distros
22:21 < blackflag_bfp> jml2: noted that, thank you
22:21 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, ifcfg is replaced by nmcli ... ifconfig is going extinct, and there's still "old documentation" that is becoming less relevant.
22:21 < revel> nmcli? That's for configuring NetworkManager, isn't it?
22:21 < revel> I think you meant ip.
22:22 < revel> /iproute2
22:22 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, as long as you know things (or equiv commands) like "dpkg -L" and "dpkg -S /path/to/file" you can pretty much figure anything out because you'll find local manpages and related commands with "SEE ALSO" sections at the bottom....
22:22 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, check out arch's rosetta cheat sheet
22:22 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman/Rosetta
22:23 < sauvin> And, for a fact, sometimes when I have trouble with Ubuntu crap, Arch wikis bail me out. :D
22:24 < blackflag_bfp> jml2: I will take a look. I have my old textboobk "Linux+ guide to linux certification"
22:24 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, anything than that it is the usual -- the "coreutils" package on all distros (mv, cp, ...) ...
22:24 < klotz> the arch wiki is indeed a good knowledge base for linux stuff
22:25 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, I learned Linux from debian's documentation back long ago -- before google and wikipedia existed...
22:25 < klotz> i find myself going back to it, even when dealing with other distros
22:25 < jml2> blackflag_bfp, arch and ubuntu didn't even exist back thne
22:26 < klotz> you're older than me then hehe
22:26 < jml2> virtualbox wasnt even around either..
22:26 < blackflag_bfp> jml2: thats why I chose debian to start, I did an install no de so it forced me to install waht I needed cli. next I may move to arch and the LFS
22:27 < phaedral> Upgraded to linux mint 18 yesterday. Most annoying upgrade ever?
22:28 < sauvin> I remember seeing Torvalds and Tannenbaum arguing on the Usenet.
22:29 < sauvin> I *remember* when the first kernel hit the streets.
22:29 < pnbeast> It seems like maybe Tannenbaum won.   He's on more x86 machines, no?
22:29 < revel> lol
22:29 < sauvin> Huh!?
22:29 < klotz> what i remember, is the middle finger to nvidia hehe
22:30 < revel> sauvin: You didn't know?
22:30 < sauvin> Dunno that he's *won*, per se, but Minix IS still around, last I'd checked it was in its third major release.
22:30 < pnbeast> He knew.  He just forgot.
22:30 < D-rex> klotz: i just saw that video the other day
22:31 < klotz> D-rex: legendary, no?
22:31 < D-rex> yeah was pretty funny
22:34 < NGC3982> building simple graphs for a web enviroment. any tips?
22:34 < jml2> minix is also in modern intel chips..
22:35 < jml2> unknown to its creator a.t.
22:36 < blackflag_bfp>  umknown to Inten?
22:36 < blackflag_bfp> Intel
22:36 < mawk> how to re-sparse a file I accidentally copied as non-sparse ?
22:37 < mawk> dd to another file using sparse block handling ?
22:37 < jml2> mawk, that's a good question lol
22:37 < mawk> size is 300 GiB and size on disk is 248 GiB, it's not that much of a difference after all
22:39 < sauvin> NGC3982, what kinds of graphs?
22:39 < jml2> mawk, I think fallocate can do it
22:40 < jml2> mawk, -d "Detect and dig holes.  This makes the file sparse in-place, without using extra disk space."
22:40 < NGC3982> sauvin: simple 2d ones for web use. i found gnuplot. looks advanced, but ill try it.
22:40 < mawk> that seems nice
22:40 < mawk> thanks jml2
22:41 < sauvin> Yes, but gnuplot was the first thought to cross my mind. It's advanced *enough* that I don't wind up calling it all kinds of foul names.
22:41 < NGC3982> :).
22:43 < snugger> Hey guys
22:43 < snugger> Just installed Void Linux :D
22:43 < jml2> mawk, depending on how fast your drive is, it could be running for days :)
22:44 < o|0o^|> snugger: your medal is in the mail
22:44 < revel> snugger: Good for you. Do you want a medal?
22:44 < snugger> I don't need a medal when I'm already happy
22:44 < o|0o^|> please don't lose the certificate of authenticity
22:44 < mawk> that's what I was gonna ask jml2 lol
22:45 < mawk> how long is it supposed to take for 300 GiB
22:45 < pnbeast> NGC3982, there are many tools to use, but gnuplot has been around forever and is well supported.  I think Python has clever stuff, and R, too, maybe.  There are more.
22:45 < mawk> while it's running I can't put my image host back again
22:45 < mawk> that's problematic
22:45 < mawk> can I interrupt it safely ?
22:45 < azarus> rrdtool is also cool for plots
22:46 < dell00> What's the difference between *.so.5 and *.so.6?
22:46 < jml2> mawk, you can probably test the speed of it by using another option and setting a length to make holes for 1 gig, time that then multiply it by 300
22:47 < jml2> dell00, .1 ?
22:47 < jml2> :)
22:47 < pnbeast> dell00, it's *.so.1!
22:47 < pnbeast> Oh, props to jml2.
22:47 < mawk> dell00: it's not a general pattern
22:47 < dell00> No, I mean are they like versions, ore something?
22:47 < jml2> no its not, *.so.6-*.so.5 = 0.1 !
22:47 < mawk> libc.so.5 is libc5 and libc.so.6 is libc6
22:47 < mawk> yes they're versions
22:47 < dell00> Ohh.
22:47 < pnbeast> dell00, yes, look up "so names", or read something like TLPI by Kerrisk, which has lots of detail.
22:48 < dell00> Do these files contain ELF binaries?
22:48 < dell00> pnbeast: will do.
22:49 < pnbeast> They are libraries of pre-compiled code.  I guess you could call them elf binaries, loosely speaking, on a modern ELF system.
22:49 < dell00> Ok.
22:49 < pnbeast> They don't typically run by themselves - they're meant to be incorporated dynamically into some end-user program that you actually choose to run, yourself.
22:50 < mawk> it's been around 10 minutes and du tells me fallocate dug 5 GiB of holes jml2
22:50 < dell00> pnbeast: TIL
22:50 < mawk> it's too slow :(
22:50 < mawk> but it's fine, the users will wait
22:51 < mawk> they are elf binaries yes dell00
22:51 < mawk> you have many subtypes for an ELF
22:51 < mawk> dynamic executable is the type for .so, it's also the type for normal binaries
22:51 < pnbeast> mawk, if users deserve anything, they deserve to wait.  Make sure their offices and labs don't have good A/C, their coffee is weak and their toilets are at the far end of the building.  Users...
22:51 < mawk> normal dynamic binary I mean
22:51 < mawk> lol
22:52 < mawk> dell00: in fact not much difference between shared libraries and dynamic executable: shared library is always position-independant, dynamic executables not always
22:52 < mawk> you can execute a shared library if you want
22:52 < dell00> Ok.
22:52 < mawk> you'll get a segfault if the .so isn't made for that, but you can
22:52 < mawk> ld.so is a famous example of executable .so
22:53 < phre4k> I get the following message, how do I resolve this? kernel: kvm [1515]: vcpu0, guest rIP: 0xfffff803e47e1bb3 kvm_set_msr_common: MSR_IA32_DEBUGCTLMSR 0x1, nop
22:53 < phre4k> KVM seems to have shat itself after I changed networking from macvtap to a bridge on the host I defined in /etc/network/interfaces
22:53 < phre4k> (Debian 9)
22:53 < mawk> looks like an unimplemented MSR, phre4k
22:53 < mawk> but why the hell is the guest OS using it, dunno
22:53 < phre4k> mawk: should I just disable MSR?
22:54 < phre4k> or can I disable it for a single guest only?
22:54 < mawk> it's not a feature, it's just a type of register in the processor
22:54 < energizer> How do I check whether I'm running in a graphical environment or not?
22:54 < mawk> check if DISPLAY is set energizer maybe
22:54 < azarus> could also check for XAUTHORITY
22:55 < energizer> thanks
22:55 < Yamakaja> Hey, does anybody have any experience with open-xchange?
22:55 < phre4k> mawk:   cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep flags | uniq → shows msr though
22:55 < mawk> yeah
22:55 < jml2> mawk, so you don't need the -n option? I wonder what this is used for
22:55 < mawk> well I don't think you can disable that thing
22:55 < mawk> you need the IA32_EFER MSR to enable 64-bit mode
22:56 < mawk> it's a very standard thing
22:57 < mawk> for fallocate jml2 ? it's implied by -d
22:57 < mawk> I can't think of another use for it
22:58 < mawk> I've backgrounded it and disowned it, just in case the ssh drops
22:58 < mawk> it's sucking up all HDD resources tho, that's not very good
22:58 < NGC3982> pnbeast: i wish i could have my sas programming at home too..
22:58 < NGC3982> pnbeast: gnuplot did the trick!
23:01 < phre4k> mawk: well how do I get rid of the error then?
23:01 < mawk> you're sure it's the hard error you're looking for phre4k ? no other errors around ?
23:02 < mawk> it looks more like a benign warning to me
23:02 < phre4k> mawk: no other priority 3 errors, but I'll check again
23:02 < phre4k> oh damn, no persistent journal
23:03 < mawk> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=437028
23:03 < mawk> this bug report indicates that it's indeed a missing feature in KVM, but that it doesn't stop the vm
23:03 < phre4k> weird
23:04 < mawk> it's not the same error actually, here it clearly says "unhandled msr"
23:04 < phre4k> what happened with my server was the host's services not being available even though the guest seemed to continue running
23:04 < phre4k> maaaaaybe that's not the droid I am looking for
23:06 < pnbeast> NGC3982, it's been years since I had to fight with SAS licensing, but nothing it ever did made me think "oh, I wish I had this bogging down my home computer, too".
23:06 < pnbeast> And, for sure, people who cared to wrestle with the more arcane details of gnuplot, back then, could make nicer plots than SAS did, back then.
23:11 < phre4k> damn, my server seems to have a super wrong time
23:11 < phre4k> TZ is correct but apparently it doesn't get time from NTP
23:11 < phre4k> dear lord
23:11 < netkam2> are most linux jobs available aws things?
23:13 < phre4k> netkam2: no, why do you ask?
23:13 < phre4k> plenty of servers and desktops all over the world not in an amazon data centre
23:14 < pnbeast> Indeed, my desktop is right here in front of me!
23:14 < sauvin> Mine, too!
23:14 < pnbeast> You have my computer?
23:14 < sauvin> There are entire cities, even entire COUNTRIES that use Linux.
23:14 < sauvin> Many hospitals.
23:14 < netkam2> phre4k: wondering how to turn Linux hobby into a job
23:14 < pnbeast> I heard Springfield has Linux.
23:15 < phre4k> hm, have a lot of Apr 14 17:10:15 ff-srv2 dhclient[27489]: DHCPREQUEST of 192.168.3.21 on br0 to 192.168.3.1 port 67 → what does that mean?
23:15 < netkam2> what does a linux sysadmin do, make user accounts, shares, do permissions... what else could it be
23:15 < phre4k> mawk: any idea? ^
23:15 < pnbeast> netkam2, download many job postings, read them, respond to the ones that roughly fit your description.
23:15 < sauvin> I think I remember reading that McGill University has a huge honking iron sitting in a basement somewhere, said to be the fastest or the biggest (or both) in the world, and it runs Linux.
23:15 < AnAverageHuman> Hi, I'm having this issue with curl on https sites: "curl: (35) error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown protocol"
23:15 < phre4k> netkam2: firewall settings, install services, maintain said services…
23:15 < phre4k> plenty of stuff to do as a sysadmin
23:16 < netkam2> phre4k: in what context, web hosting? thats the only one I am familiar with
23:16 < phre4k> I'm an IT infrastructure consultant and I can't say that I'm bored
23:16 < sauvin> Don't forget the coffee, the bags of donuts and the tons and tons of highly inappropriate porn.
23:16 < phre4k> netkam2: do you know what a service is?
23:16 < netkam2> sysctl service status blah
23:16 < phre4k> netkam2: hwat
23:17 < netkam2> you mean daemons
23:17 < phre4k> netkam2: read into ITIL, docker, ansible and iptables
23:18 < netkam2> let me say web/cloud centric things I get but don't know what else is out there
23:19 < jml2> i think the term web is being obsolete by cloud
23:19 < jml2> tehehe
23:20 < netkam2> ybs
23:20 < jml2> maybe it's the web2.
23:20 < netkam2> on prem linux stuff, rhel is over my head
23:21 < netkam2> no clue what it would be suer for but I'm gonna look at hospital stuff because I feel like it would be found there
23:21 < netkam2> s/suer/used
23:24 < phre4k> netkam2: http://lmgtfy.com/?s=a&q=what+do+you+do+as+a+linux+admin
23:24 < phre4k> what does a Windows sysadmin do, really
23:24 < phre4k> what does anyone do in IT anyway? Just configure Samba and some websites, right?
23:25 < netkam2> yea windows.. configure SMB exactly
23:25 < netkam2> lol
23:25 < netkam2> users
23:26 < netkam2> your lmgtfy was actually hepfull
23:26 < phre4k> mawk: did "echo 1 >/sys/module/kvm/parameters/ignore_msrs" until I know if that's the problem. If the thing runs for weeks, I'll probably just add it to the modprobe config
23:26 < o|0o^|> what does samba stand for
23:27 < phre4k> o|0o^|: Samba stands for the software Samba
23:27 < jml2> o|0o^|, moniker on the term smb,
23:27 < pnbeast> Windows admins mostly reboot the exchange server or update virus definitions or reinstall machines and hope for an update to the *new* virus definitions.  UNIX admins mostly curse at users and wonder why smtpd is consuming 500% of each core with cialis ads.
23:27 < jml2> o|0o^|, smb/cifs
23:27 < o|0o^|> so it's really  SaMBa
23:27 < phre4k> pnbeast: see, that's why I don't run SMTP on my servers
23:27 < jml2> o|0o^|, no, you'll have to google :)
23:27 < o|0o^|> i did
23:27 < pnbeast> That's a very good choice to make, if you can.
23:27 < phre4k> o|0o^|: no, SMB is the protocol, Samba is an implementation for that protocol
23:28 < jml2> o|0o^|, well google again :)
23:28 < o|0o^|> what do i google for
23:28 < phre4k> o|0o^|: samba+linux
23:28 < o|0o^|> that explains what the two a's represent
23:28 < netkam2> service smbd status
23:28 < jml2> o|0o^|, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Message_Block
23:29 < Nixola> can I ask questions about kvm here or should I just ask on the specific channel?
23:30 < hatp> Anyone know how I can get my machine to boot into tty2 by default instead of tty1?
23:30 < hatp> this is of dire importance
23:30 < o|0o^|> hatp: tell your login program to use tty2 instead
23:30 < hatp> what'
23:30 < hatp> s my login program. i use systemd
23:30 < o|0o^|> hatp: tell your login program to use tty2 instead of tty1
23:31 < o|0o^|> how am i suppsoed to know that
23:32 < netkam2> and.. oh yea people still use mailservers as opposed to G Suite or O365
23:32 < netkam2> ?
23:34 < Konichiwa> wth is G Suite and O365?
23:34 < Nixola> Google suite and Office 365
23:35 < Konichiwa> why would I want evil corps having control over my communications?
23:35 < phre4k> Nixola: ask away, asking to ask are bad manners
23:35 < netkam2> ways to pawn off your email server problems on a large corporation
23:35 < o|0o^|> to improve your user experience, of course.
23:35 < Konichiwa> mail servers aren't problems o_O
23:36 < jml2> netkam2, https://haveibeenpwned.com/
23:36 < netkam2> Konichiwa: evil corps having control over your users communications
23:36 < jml2> netkam2, :)
23:36 < phre4k> netkam2: if you have problems with your mail server, you shouldn't run one. Running to a big corp is okay, but you have to agree that they read all your emails
23:36 < netkam2> curl https://haveibeenpwned.com/
23:37 < netkam2> phre4k: now with Microsoft new censorship
23:37 < phre4k> netkam2: hosting mail is nothing magical though, you can do it
23:37 < phre4k> many other hosters apart from google and microsoft
23:37 < netkam2> evidently you cant tell Cortana to go f* its self or you will violate a O365 TOS
23:37 < phre4k> I'm sure a small hosting company would be more than happy to host your email, probably give you even more support than google or microsoft
23:38 < netkam2> phre4k thx for the encouragement
23:38 < phre4k> because if you ever had to talk to google or MS support, you basically want to kill yourself every other day
23:38 < phre4k> that's where it's at now
23:38 < netkam2> I do about 2x per 6 months
23:38 < netkam2> and yes you are right
23:38 < Konichiwa> phre4k, sounds like a big change from over 20 years ago
23:38 < phre4k> netkam2: even more reason to not use their services and go to a trusted (local) hosting company instead
23:39 < phre4k> in my city alone there are 5 small/medium hosting companies and that's just a 300k city
23:39 < phre4k> I think we have about 2 or 3 DCs here where you can even put your own server into a rack, can you believe it
23:40 < Nixola> so, I'm trying to pass to a Windows VM a GPU and a USB controller but, unfortunately, the usb pcie card I bought ends up in the same IOMMU group as pretty much all of the motherboard, so I had to install a patched kernel (acs override patch)
23:40 < phre4k> Konichiwa: don't know the MS service from over 20 years ago, but ever since they outsourced everything to India and eastern Europe the support quality went to shit
23:40 < Nixola> it doesn't look like the acs override patch changed anything at all though
23:40 < Konichiwa> phre4k, your city is half as big as my State, and our county has more than that (small hosting companies)
23:40 < phre4k> turns out that outsourcing support to people who don't have a clue but are super cheap is still not a reason for people to stop using your product
23:41 < nuka-cola_> I've tried to do a gpu passthrough to a windows vm but in the end i gave up on gaming :)
23:41 < Konichiwa> phre4k, sadly, it's the local school system that pounds MS worship into the students
23:41 < phre4k> Konichiwa: yeah, I'm probably underestimating. That was only the *good* companies though, I guess every other street has a small kid hosting a server :D
23:41 < phre4k> Konichiwa: oh god, don't remind me
23:41 < phre4k> now I have to talk to the rapist again
23:41 < o|0o^|> nuka-cola_: there are games out there that don't require GPU's
23:42 < phre4k> nuka-cola_: try native steam ;)
23:42 < _stuart> therapist ? lol
23:42 < Konichiwa> heh
23:43 < netkam2> phre4k: what's a place called where you can rack your own server
23:43 < netkam2> nm
23:43 < netkam2> just googled it
23:43 < Konichiwa> heh
23:43 < nuka-cola_> phre4k: well i'm only interested in one game: street fighter 5, capcom said years ago they are gonna do native linux port but in the end as always they lied :)
23:44 < phre4k> nuka-cola_: maybe dxvk helps? WINE is also pretty cool nowadays
23:44 < Konichiwa> netkam2, you looking to rack a server in a data center?
23:44 < netkam2> hell no!
23:44 < phre4k> nuka-cola_: hm, has a garbage rating, but also the last tested WINE version is apparently 1.9.22 which is pretty old
23:45 < phre4k> netkam2: it's a colocation data center
23:45 < netkam2> just was kinda happy to finally learn what colo was and that it exists
23:45 < phre4k> netkam2: that said, buy a raspberry pi and set up some services, do your RHCSA and apply to a job
23:45 < nuka-cola_> phre4k: yeah i check from time to time apparently its garbage on wine
23:45 < phre4k> netkam2: nothing easier than to become a Linux sysadmin nowadays
23:45 < Konichiwa> netkam2, yes...the NSA is happy to open as many local offices as needed to feed the machine ;)
23:45 < phre4k> (apart from becoming a Windows sysadmin - you just say "I'm an admin" and start applying)
23:46 < phre4k> netkam2: reddit.com/r/linuxadmin could get you started on linuxadmin topics
23:46 < netkam2> Konichiwa: omg your' right lol
23:46 < netkam2> "give us your server"
23:46 < netkam2> phre4k: thx
23:47 < Konichiwa> netkam2, the whole issue is trust.  Doesn't matter what the sales spill is...you gotta have trust in any of your service providers
23:47 < Psi-Jack> netkam2: "thanks" not "thx" for future corrections.
23:48 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: Ewwww,reddit
23:48  * netkam2 sigh
23:49 < Konichiwa> Mmmm....taco.....
23:50 < Konichiwa> reminds me, I should checkout Slashdot
23:50 < Psi-Jack> Heh
23:50 < Psi-Jack> I just fixed an age-old annoyance in CentOS 7 still, in 2018, not supporting IPADDR=ip.add.re.ss/CIDR notation.
23:50 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: oh come ooon
23:52 < TwistedFate> can someone recommend me a good tv card that works great on gnu+linux?
23:52 < [R]> TwistedFate: linuxtv website has a database
23:53 < TwistedFate> awesome, thanks [R]!
23:55 < TwistedFate> huh, now that i took a look, i don't see the database
23:56 < [R]> well there isn't a "database" per se
23:56 < [R]> but the wiki has information on various cards
23:57 < dviola> or get the linux kernel source and look at which ones it has drivers for
23:58 < Loshki> TwistedFate: I read the product reviews until I find one where a person actually says "I ran this with linux and did/didn't work fine". So far, fake reviewers never use linux. Plus a good return policy "just in case".
23:59 < sauvin> https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Special:Categories
--- Log closed Mon Apr 16 00:00:46 2018