--- Log opened Mon Apr 16 00:00:46 2018
00:41 < mawk> where do I find the steem wallet data on linux ?
00:43 < NextContestant> any one familiar with wget... having issues using user/password with -m
00:44 < mawk> ask the question
00:44 < NextContestant> I just can't seem to make it work
00:48 < [R]> "issues" you say
00:48 < [R]> of course!
00:53 < NextContestant> I'm sure it's working fine... I'm just not telling it exact what it needs :)
00:54 < mawk> tell us the options you used, the error message and the behavior you expect
00:54 < mawk> that the least you can provide us
00:55 < [R]> lol
00:57 < NextContestant> wget -m -p --adjust-extension --limit=50k --page-requisites --execute robots=off --wait=1 --random-wait --convert-links --debug --level 10 --user-agent="Mozilla/5.0 Gecko/20100101 Fire/fox/52.0" --load-cookies scubaearch.txt  http://www.scubaearth.com/diver/default.aspx?affiliateid=25202591
00:57 < mawk> scubaearch.txt ?
00:58 < NextContestant> used a firefox cookie manager to pull cookie info (believed I pulled it correctly)
00:58 < mawk> yeah I know, I mean you didn't make a typing mistake ?
00:58 < mawk> earch / earth
00:59 < NextContestant> good catch on that... :(
00:59 < NextContestant> will try again
01:00 < Anonrate> How do I change the resolution of the terminal in Debian Buster?  I've tried editing /etc/default/grub and adding GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD, followed by doing the samething in /etc/grub.d/00_headers with adding set gfxpayload=...blabla then running update-grub2 followed by reboot.  It will not seem to work.  I had it working before, but it wont work anymore.  I've done a clean install of Buster and still no luck.  I'm
01:00 < Anonrate> running in VMWare.
01:11 < NextContestant> d'oh... fat finger syndrome again. Seems to be working, thanks mawk
01:16 < NextContestant> well... I think it working, though I'm not seeing an increase in folder/files
01:39 < [R]> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=851774
01:39 < [R]> this is ridiculous
01:39 < [R]> its been over a year, and still nothing been done aout it
01:41 < triceratux> yep. "its".
01:43 < NextContestant> seems I have a "Syntax error in Set-Cookie:"
01:44 < o|0o^|> ohnnoooo
02:17 < avis> anyone know site -- good, better than distrowatch, or anything like it ?
02:18 < ananke> avis: pbs.org
02:19 < jmadero> hi all - anyone have a suggestion for a decent read for planning a program before code is even started? I know use cases and the like are normal. I'd like to read about the normal process if anyone has a suggestion
02:19 < Psi-Jack> ananke: Hmm.. I just installed you.
02:20 < [R]> ananke: nice
02:20 < [R]> jmadero: i'll take "things that have nothing to do with linux for $500 alex"
02:20 < jmadero> [R]: fair, I'll ask elsewhere
02:22 < backnforth> Can someone help me how to use Racoon, please?
02:23 < Psi-Jack> backnforth: With.. What?
02:23 < Psi-Jack> You mean IPSec?
02:27 < [R]> don't you know mean ipcrap
02:27  * [R] giggles
02:28 < avis> i use irccloud
02:29  * [R] gives avis a gold star
02:29  * Psi-Jack removes the gold star for not using a proper IRC client.
02:29  * Psi-Jack places a black negative star.
02:29 < [R]> lol
02:30 < Sveta> i give avis a special star for using an irc client that does not involve running proprietary binaries which have access to the filesystem
02:30 < Sveta> that is already some progress compared with using something similar to mirc
02:31 < Juesto> irccloud is evil, sveta
02:31 < avis> it doesn't mean they have root tho
02:31 < ibttis> any recommendations of a linux distro for a shitty old laptop
02:31 < Juesto> (she has me ignored)
02:31 < avis> or that anyone can get root
02:31 < Psi-Jack> irccloud is propriatery, too.
02:31 < [R]> ibttis: define "shitty old laptop"
02:31 < Psi-Jack> ibttis: *
02:31 < Juesto> ibttis: guix, debian, puppy linux, turbolinux,
02:31 < Juesto> Any will do well i guess
02:32 < Juesto> pretty much.
02:32 < ibttis> heard xubuntu or ubuntu MATE are decent
02:32 < ibttis> 4gb ramm older version of i5 [R]
02:32 < Psi-Jack> ibttis: Any distro will do just fine.
02:32 < Juesto> yes, Xfce and mate are decent
02:32 < [R]> ibttis: 4gb of ram and an i5 isn't "shitty"
02:32 < [R]> rofl
02:32 < Juesto> ubuntu is not very good
02:32 < ibttis> it's old though
02:32 < [R]> lol
02:33 < ibttis> wanted to be on the safe side
02:33 < ibttis> but you're right [R]
02:33 < [R]> any sane dist
02:33 < Psi-Jack> Ubuntu is.. Ubuntu. Xubuntu is Ubuntu. Ubuntu MATE is Ubuntu.
02:33 < ibttis> kinda retarded of me
02:33 < Juesto> [R]: 2011 were not so good
02:33 < avis> i was around when linux got bunches of daily updates
02:33 < Juesto> 2011 cpus
02:34 < ibttis> xubuntu looks good but im not quite sure wether or not it's going to be supported for a longer time
02:34 < Juesto> ibttis: you'll be doing great with any distro really :) we dont know whats your laptops other specs but you might run into some issues with the hardware and compatibility, etc
02:34 < Sveta> Psi-Jack: irccloud kind of proprietary does not grant it with access to files on your computer, proprrietary javascript doesn't go very far unless it uses an exploit
02:34 < Juesto> ibttis: xubuntu is supported with ubuntu itself, its just a spin/variant/package
02:34 < ibttis> the same team releases xubuntu?
02:34 < Psi-Jack> avis: I started Linux in 0.99
02:35 < [R]> ibttis: "same"?
02:35 < Sveta> avis: irc clients like xchat or quassel don't have root either, but they can read (if they want to) any files in your home directory, so them being proprietary is a larger risk than running scripts from a web page
02:35 < Juesto> so, xubuntu will be still supported as much is ubuntu itself. you should try asking in #ubuntu, #xbuntu
02:35 < Psi-Jack> Sveta: That.. Depends on what browser he uses.
02:35 < Juesto> irc clients != cloud irc client
02:35 < Sveta> Psi-Jack, i think most browsers do not allow javascript to read arbitrary files on the disk without user consent
02:35 < Psi-Jack> It's nice to think such things. But not always true. :)
02:36 < Juesto> funny sveta, it's actually the opposite
02:36 < Sveta> Psi-Jack, then they've got bigger problems than 'using irccloud'
02:36 < Psi-Jack> Firefox was back in pwn2own 2018, and it once again had zero-day vulnerabilities.
02:36 < Juesto> ibttis: dont know if canonical itself but it's a joint work.
02:36 < Sveta> the problem of 'allowing any javascripts to read any user-readable files on the computer' is a lot bigger than the problem of using irccloud, i think
02:36 < justJanne> Sveta: all IRCCloud clients that you can run locally are currently open source
02:36 < [R]> Sveta: people freak out because gitlab enterprise's javascript is propreitary... and you think no one cares that irc cloud is propreitary?
02:36 < Sveta> justJanne, cool
02:36 < avis> java runs java apps.  jewellers use them
02:37 < justJanne> the only proprietary part of IRCCloud is the server side
02:37 < Sveta> [R], like justJanne said, irccloud client isn't proprietary
02:37 < avis> why ?
02:37 < Psi-Jack> Where's the irccloud source?
02:37 < Juesto> ugh, proprietary/open paranoia hits again
02:37 < [R]> if you're running a local client
02:37 < [R]> then why not just use a real irc client
02:37 < [R]> lol
02:37 < Juesto> ^
02:37 < Juesto> znc > irccloud
02:38 < Sveta> justJanne, i think that avis uses a web client for irccloud, and the web client is proprietary
02:38 < Juesto> (sveta ignores me, sad)
02:38 < justJanne> Sveta: that is true indeed
02:38 < Psi-Jack> HexChat|Mutter->ZNC->Freenode
02:38 < justJanne> Psi-Jack: https://github.com/irccloud/
02:38 < justJanne> for their android and iOS clients
02:38 < Sveta> also they were incompetent, they were using a webchat, not irccloud
02:38 < justJanne> personally, I prefer quassel > irccloud anyway
02:39 < Psi-Jack> justJanne: I don't see the irccloud actual code.
02:39 < Juesto> why irccloud instead of znc, justJanne
02:39 < Psi-Jack> JUst extras to connect /to/ it.
02:39 < Juesto> or any bouncer
02:39 < justJanne> Yes, their server side isn’t available, Psi-Jack, but it wouldn’t be useful to you anyway
02:39 < [R]> lol
02:39 < [R]> thats the point of open sourcce
02:39 < Psi-Jack> So, then, irccloud is 100% propriatery.
02:39 < [R]> it is very much useful
02:39 < Juesto> it is useful for the paranoid people
02:39 < [R]> tahts like sying you dont need the source for the kernel
02:39 < [R]> it woudln't be useful anyway
02:39 < justJanne> [R]: not always – I open source all my projects,
02:39 < justJanne> but many end up with 0 users
02:39 < Psi-Jack> I cannot control, or run irccloud myself, therefore it's propriatery.
02:40 < [R]> oh... well then never mind
02:40 < Juesto> lol
02:40 < [R]> you're an expert
02:40 < Juesto> welp
02:40 < Sveta> Psi-Jack, you misunderstood
02:40 < justJanne> because e.g. my own imgur clone assumes you’re running a kubernetes cluster, with your own auth proxy, and a clustered database
02:40 < Sveta> Psi-Jack, irccloud has a client for desktop, which is opensource. running it does not put your computer at risk
02:40 < justJanne> the number of people that have that running on their own is pretty much zero
02:40 < [R]> justJanne: so because you make crap, that means its ireevlent?
02:40 < justJanne> [R]: but that’s why I’m also working on improving the quassel mobile client, so that irccloud is irrelevant
02:41 < Psi-Jack> Sveta: Running any software puts your computer at potential risk, actually.
02:41 < Sveta> Psi-Jack: it does not result in your computer running proprietary codes
02:41 < RustyShackelford> I wanna set up this file server, but I plan to upgrade later
02:41 < Sveta> Psi-Jack: meaning that irccloud client is 0% proprietary
02:41 < Psi-Jack> That part may be true. But you still connect to a propriatery service. :)
02:41 < Sveta> Psi-Jack: yes
02:41 < Psi-Jack> Then again, Freenode is propriatery itself. :)
02:41 < Juesto> ^
02:41 < Sveta> Psi-Jack: yes
02:41 < Juesto> the ircd is?
02:41 < RustyShackelford> Can I set up raid/zfs with just one drive. Upgrade in place when I buy some more drives?
02:42 < Juesto> i doubt
02:42 < RustyShackelford> trying to avoid having to reinstall the OS
02:42 < Sveta> Psi-Jack: does that realization make you smile? why?
02:42 < justJanne> Freenode runs a custom fork of a common IRCd
02:42 < justJanne> not everything is upstreamed
02:42 < Psi-Jack> heh. No real reason. heh
02:42 < Juesto> is it really necessary to be upstreamed?
02:42 < Psi-Jack> But yeah, freenode's ircd is not open to the public.
02:44 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm... I'm thinking of changing my forum on my website to something more like a StackOverflow-like Q&A instead.
02:44 < Juesto> Would you guys recommend using Darwin?
02:44 < [R]> Psi-Jack: theres a package for taht
02:44 < [R]> i set it up at my work
02:44 < Psi-Jack> Juesto: Darwin != Linux
02:44 < Psi-Jack> [R]: I'm looking at something written in GoLang called Ask EECS.
02:44 < Juesto> ok, do you know which is the gnu channel, Psi-Jack ?
02:44 < Psi-Jack> GoLang+MongoDB
02:45 < Psi-Jack> Darwin != GNU
02:45 < Psi-Jack> [R]: But, still curious. What are you running?
02:45 < [R]> https://github.com/q2a/question2answer
02:45 < Juesto> i am wondering about using darwin along with bsd or gnu
02:45 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, I saw that one today too.
02:45 < Psi-Jack> Juesto: Well, this is the wrong channel for that.
02:46 < Juesto> Would you please point me towards the right channel if you know it?
02:46 < Psi-Jack> #macos
02:46 < Sveta> Psi-Jack: there is also 'discourse' q&a software, i think mozilla uses it
02:46 < Juesto> Okay thanks
02:46 < Psi-Jack> Discourse is more of a "modern" forum, like the one I'm using now, Flarum, tag-based forum.
02:46 < gm152>  /msg alis list darwin
02:47 < Psi-Jack> But, a StackExchange like Q&A is more, specifically including a community scoring concept to bump up the better answers.
02:48 < Sveta> I'm still puzzled by the magical process that drives people away from using email (it's convenient and quick, and a newsgroup can be rather useful)
02:49 < Juesto> email and newsgroups have became past
02:51 < aer[m]> Help
02:51 < aer[m]> has the nvidia 304xx package vanished completely?
02:51 < Psi-Jack> Well, I run my own email servers, mostly for me and my wife. :)
02:51 < aer[m]> Is it just Arch that has decided to ... make it vanish from the repos and AUR?
02:51 < Psi-Jack> Newsgroups, though. Is not really maintained much anymore, in terms of software to run it by. That said, my BBS has nntp access to its forums.
02:51 < aer[m]> Thank you
02:52 < Psi-Jack> aer[m]: Ask #archlinux?
02:52 < aer[m]> oh!!!
02:52 < aer[m]> i clicked on the wrong button
02:52 < aer[m]> i'm sorry
02:55 < pnbeast> Send us all a check for, say, 5EU and we'll consider it forgotten.
02:57  * aer[m] magically sends the check to everybody
02:57 < aer[m]> there! :)
02:57 < Sveta> Bingo! We have a matter creation machine.
02:58 < pnbeast> The first bright bulb that orders Earl Grey tea with it gets a punch in the snoot.
02:59  * robbmunson gets a broken nose and didn't order anything...
03:00 < robbmunson> I think this thing is broken.
03:00  * pnbeast writes a 5EU check to robbmunson.  :(
03:35 < slackjeff> hi
03:43 < TheChosenOne> Hey, I am trying to run "certbot-auto renew" whenever the machine starts, anyone know how I can do that
03:44 < TheChosenOne> I understand cron does something, and theres multiple cron.daily, cron.hhourly etc folders
03:46 < nai> if you run systemd, use timers
03:48 < Psi-Jack> systemd-timers++
03:49 < nai> actually, no need for timers just to run a task on boot
03:50 < nai> just make a service and enable it
03:50 < o|0o^|> systemd isn't deprecated yet?  it's gettin kinda old ;)
03:51 < [R]> so i want that if i install a deb file, it'll add a source to my dpkg, and then install a package from taht repo
03:51 < [R]> is that possible?
03:51 < [R]> i guess i could do a postinst script
03:52 < [R]> but i'd like the deb to depend on the new package
03:53 < nai> TheChosenOne: are you sure you want to run certbot on boot? i think you should rather run it every X days, say 30
03:53 < Psi-Jack> [R]: Well, Ask Eecs, sucks. Going to Question2Answer. :)
03:54 < [R]> Psi-Jack: well its go... what do you expect?
03:54 < TheChosenOne> I have this currently, but it doesnt work
03:54 < TheChosenOne> https://i.imgur.com/OcLSZJG.png
03:54 < [R]> in what unierse
03:54 < [R]> is taking a picutre of text sane?
03:54 < nai> TheChosenOne: what does journalctl say?
03:54 < Psi-Jack> [R]: I expect gogs/gitea/caddy/* quality I've seen. LOL
03:55 < TheChosenOne> It doesnt let me copy in putty
03:55 < TheChosenOne> No clue what jouralctl is
03:55 < TheChosenOne> Gonna google
03:55 < nai> TheChosenOne: what distro are you using
03:56 < TheChosenOne> ubuntu
03:56 < nai> i said journalctl bc i thought you were already using systemd
03:56 < nai> but you are using cron
03:56 < ikkuranus> I used the nfs export module of webmin to create an nfs4 share and it creates a link to the original folder. How do I delete that link (unsure which kind it is)
03:56 < TheChosenOne> Reckon this would work
03:56 < TheChosenOne> @reboot /usr/local/sbin/certbot-auto/certbot-auto renew
03:56 < netkam2> Linux DESKTOP-91NITQ5 4.4.0-43-Microsoft #1-Microsoft Wed Dec 31 14:42:53 PST 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
03:57 < netkam2> wonder if this is gonna catch on or im the only idiot who likes it
03:58 < [R]> ikkuranus: you remove files with rm
03:58 < [R]> netkam2: only you
03:58  * netkam2 squints
03:59 < ikkuranus> that don't work though
03:59 < [R]> ikkuranus: and "don't work" means...
03:59 < ikkuranus> it says it's a directory
03:59 < [R]> ikkuranus: what are you typing
04:00 < ikkuranus> I have tried rm -rf /dir
04:00 < ikkuranus> er rmdir -rf etc
04:00 < [R]> ls -ld /the/directory
04:00 < ikkuranus> cd .
04:00 < ikkuranus> whup
04:02 < ikkuranus> what am I looking for with that?
04:02 < netkam2> lol
04:02 < nai> rmdir? Are you on linux?
04:02 < [R]> to tell me what it says...
04:03 < ikkuranus> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Apr 15 18:38 /TV
04:03 < pnbeast> ikkuranus, whatever comes of this, just remember that webmin is probably not the tool you should be using to administer a machine.
04:03 < [R]> thats not a link...
04:04 < ikkuranus> well whatever it is it points to /media/stuff
04:05 < [R]> well thats' a directory... so...
04:05 < [R]> who knwos what kind of retardation webmin did
04:09 < Psi-Jack> Left stugout to suffer, eh?
04:09 < Psi-Jack> Err, left strungout*
04:09 < Blourph> Still was a high quality joke. I like witty humor :)
04:10 < Blourph> Are posting links allowed if its to the archlinux official wiki? (pertains to a question I'm planning to ask)
04:11 < Blourph> Before you tell me to read the rules, I'm doing that as we speak :)
04:11 < ikkuranus> ok that worked I just needed to kill the process that was using it
04:11 < [R]> Blourph: well, then just read the rules...
04:12 < Blourph> Sorry I realised I could of answered the question myself.. For that I appologize
04:12 < Blourph> [R], can we be friends :)
04:12 < [R]> no
04:13 < Blourph> I don't have lice :)
04:14 < Blourph> Whats the weather like on planet [R], I want to get to know you. Lets be friends :)
04:15 < Dominian> '/14
04:15 < pnbeast> Looks like you made a new friend, [R]!  Congratulations.  Remember to feed him every day and change his shavings.
04:16 < Blourph> [R], I need to go potty. can I go potty?
04:16 < Auroth> Never feed him after midnight, keep him away from water, keep him out of sunlight
04:17 < Blourph> Ahh! the sun burns..
04:18 < blackflag_bfp> Auroth: I want a Giz!
04:32 < justJanne> and regarding the earlier proprietary IRC client discussion, it’s not like I like proprietary software – I’ve by now spent every minute of free time for 5 years to build open source alternatives for each of the proprietary solutions I used to use. It’s why I contribute to Quassel as well
04:32 < justJanne> to avoid misunderstandings
04:34 < [R]> lol
04:36 < Psi-Jack> [R]: Hmmm, Question2Answer is pretty decent.
04:37 < [R]> yeah, i liked it
04:38 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, for my site it seems like it'd make more sense. ;)
04:39 < justJanne> Basically, at a time when I have to worry about users switching to Slack, IRCCloud, even if proprietary, is still an ally. Any client with an open protocol, in fact.
04:39 < [R]> plus... its not go
04:39 < [R]> so there's that...
04:39 < [R]> :)
04:39 < justJanne> As long as we can prevent open source projects leaving for slack, all is good
04:39 < Psi-Jack> [R]: Heh, like I said, I like go. Memory efficient when done right. ;)
04:40 < justJanne> And too many projects have already done that shit
04:40 < [R]> lol
04:40 < Psi-Jack> Gitea, I'm running now, runs on a VM that only has 256mb.
04:40 < Psi-Jack> .. of RAM
04:40 < [R]> gogs has alreayd been forked?
04:40 < [R]> rofl
04:42 < justJanne> Sadly neither gitea nor gogs are well designed
04:42 < [R]> gitlab is pretty sweet
04:42 < justJanne> Neither of them even caches database results
04:43 < justJanne> As result, they're limited to very view viewers for a repo
04:43 < justJanne> And GitLab rewrote their entire backend in golang now as well
04:43 < Psi-Jack> gitlab is undoubtedly nice, but gitea has pretty much nearly everything gitlab has, for a lot less system requirements.
04:43 < justJanne> At least gitlab is splitting up the omnibus package into a bunch of separate kubernetes deployments soon
04:43 < Psi-Jack> [R]: And yeah, forked, because the gogs developer keeps disappearing for months at a time. Gitea is managed by a community, rather than a single point of failure.
04:44 < [R]> well after managing my own gitlab for 2 years
04:44 < justJanne> Still, gitea, gogs or gitlab matters little as long as it isn't github
04:44 < [R]> my comppany IT is deploying the enterprise version
04:44 < Psi-Jack> [R]: My company just did that. :)
04:45 < Psi-Jack> Upgraded to Enterprise.
04:45 < ananke> [R]: good news is that it's a simple matter of flipping a switch to go from CE to EE, and back
04:45 < Psi-Jack> ananke: Yep.
04:45 < [R]> well i'm going to be exporting everythign from my server
04:45 < [R]> and impoting it into theirs
04:45 < Psi-Jack> As long as your fairly up-to-date. ;)
04:45 < justJanne> Bad news is that restarting the gitlab container takes over 20 minutes
04:45 < [R]> hopefully taht goes well
04:45 < Psi-Jack> LOL
04:46 < ananke> justJanne: sounds like an issue with resources
04:46 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: you see my PM ?
04:46 < justJanne> Because they put all in one container
04:46 < Psi-Jack> Oh not yet. :)
04:46 < ananke> justJanne: who's 'they'?
04:46 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: thought you'd get a kick out of it
04:46 < justJanne> They have mattermost, sidekiq, the various gitlab own parts all in one official gitlab container
04:46 < Psi-Jack> Wow...
04:46 < justJanne> On every start, re-migrating and reconfiguring all
04:47 < justJanne> It's an over 1GB container image, shipping half of ubuntu with it
04:47 < justJanne> It eats over 8GB of RAM while idle
04:47 < ananke> justJanne: you know, you don't have to use that as a solution. a simple vm would work too
04:47 < justJanne> An official helm chart is in the works, I was told
04:48 < Psi-Jack> justJanne: Yeah, that's why I don't like GitLab.
04:48 < [R]> the one thing gitlab is still missing is push notifications for gitlab CI
04:48 < justJanne> Ananke: a simple VM doesn't provide half of the usefulness of kubernetes
04:48 < Psi-Jack> [R]: It's funny because they've had that feature requested since... 2 years ago?
04:48 < [R]> yeah
04:49 < Psi-Jack> That's the other thing I don't like about gitlab.
04:49 < justJanne> I use kubernetes so I can easily migrate running services across servers in the cluster, can auto scale, and can easily handle failures
04:49 < [R]> i hate having to wait for my stuf to run
04:49 < justJanne> Having one giant mega containers isn't great for that
04:49 < Psi-Jack> Oh, and the gitlab admin console from shell, taking 60~120 seconds just to be ready....
04:49 < justJanne> On the other hand, I fully understand their issues
04:49 < ananke> justJanne: I never said it would
04:50 < ananke> justJanne: a proper vm solution can do migration
04:50 < Auroth> Wayland will never overtake X.org
04:50 < Auroth> Long live X!
04:50 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, I know gitlab, gitlab-ci. Along with MatterMost w/GitLab integration. heh
04:50 < justJanne> If you make a deployment that works great in such cluster deployments, it won't work great for small use cases
04:51 < Auroth> 90% of Steam games fail to launch on Wayland, Steam is the main reason for Linux's increasing usage as a home/desktop OS
04:51 < justJanne> Like my aforementioned imgur clone that requires a container orchestrator, auth proxy, OIDC IdP, distributed database, distributed file storage, and load balancer
04:51 < [R]> Auroth: and 100% of online statitics are made up
04:52 < justJanne> Works great in clouds, saves lots of Dev time — horrible for local deployments
04:52 < Psi-Jack> justJanne: Yikes.
04:53 < justJanne> Psi-Jack: but as Dev it's awesome — the app gets a header that has a signed value for all auth info about the user, and if it needs to auth can just redirect. The app itself never handles auth or passwords.
04:53 < justJanne> And if I want to add more 2FA features, I have a central place
04:53 < justJanne> Even the tiniest projects I build csn this way have U2F and TOTP support, without having to reinvent the wheel 20 times
04:53 < Psi-Jack> What's funny is GitLab-EE's 2FA "feature" that disables 2FA for actual git. heh
04:53 < Psi-Jack> :)
04:54 < Psi-Jack> Through "Application Tokens"
04:54 < justJanne> Yeah, and it doesn't integrate well with OAuth2/OIDC auth either
04:54 < Psi-Jack> I'm still not sure I'm totally convinced of Oauth.
04:55 < justJanne> Well, it's like IRC. The protocol may be batshit insane, but it's out there now, and you have to support it for now
04:56 < justJanne> Sometimes I miss OpenID
04:56  * Metalloid grunts
04:57 < justJanne> No shitty "log in with Google+", instead "log in with OpenID", that was nive
04:57 < justJanne> *nice
04:57 < dogbert2> heh...this SBC is not too shabby...Armbian
05:02 < Psi-Jack> Some things still support openid.
05:03 < Psi-Jack> But, part of the problem with openid was the horrible url-like username approach.
05:07 < amosbird> Hi, how can I print "perf stat" info from a perf record perf.data ?
05:07 < Psi-Jack> Aztec03|afk: Please turn that away nick off.
05:08 < uplime> hrm... does anyone happen to know what extensions need to be applied to a certificate for it to be considered a CA signing certificate?
05:09 < uplime> besides CA:TRUE,pathlen:0
05:09 < uplime> erm, pathlen:n
05:25 < Psi-Jack> Aztec03: Have you disabled that? ;)
05:25 < Aztec03> oh my bad
05:25 < Aztec03> I did that manually, I wont again. My bad!
05:25 < dell00> It happens :)
05:26 < Auroth> Openbox is wonderful
05:26 < Auroth> I wonder how I change my background OwO
05:26 < dell00> I haven't used Openbox in a while, but I *think* you have to modify .config/openbox/autostart.xml with some option?
05:28 < Juesto> Auroth: usually right click and change background. somewhere along the lines
05:28 < Juesto> dell00: what autostart has to do with the background at all
05:28 < Auroth> Not that easy, am just running Openbox, no DE Juesto :P
05:28 < Juesto> background is usually file manager managed
05:28 < Juesto> oh well
05:28 < Juesto> then openbox menus should have somewhere to change the background
05:28 < dell00> I don't know, tbh. I just don't remember exactly what I did when I made a permanent wallpaper for openbox.
05:28 < Juesto> otherwise maybe xsetroot
05:29 < Auroth> feh can do it apparently
05:29 < Aph3x-WL> you could use feh or nitrogen, those are what i used on openbox
05:30 < skweek> I have a fun linux puzzle ! https://justpaste.it/1jnyv if anyone is around to help solve it :-)
05:30 < dell00> Auroth: `feh --bg-scale`
05:32 < boblamont> in a shell script, if I run 2 parallel commands (ending with &), then "wait", then some more commands (also in parallel), the rest of the commands will run after the first 2 are both done, right? just wait with no modifiers? use case: moving 2 files out of a directory before creating 2 more with the very same names, I want to be sure both of the original 2 files are safely moved before the new ones are created
05:33 < Juesto> for the latter you can check whatever the files exist before running the commands
05:33 < Juesto> creation commands*
05:33 < Juesto> there's many different shells, which are you using
05:34 < boblamont> just plain bash
05:35 < Juesto> you can try #bash
05:35 < nai> yes boblamont that's how it works
05:36 < nai> `wait` waits for all children processes to finish
05:36 < sysRPL> hello
05:37 < Juesto> as a additional measure he can just check if the files are gone, what if it errors out during the move?
05:37 < sysRPL> does anyone here know how to write gtk/gtk code? i have NO idea what a "construct only" property is on a widget
05:37 < sysRPL> any , and i mean any, advice would be helpful
05:38 < Juesto> maybe #gtk
05:38 < Juesto> and some research :)
05:38 < sysRPL> that channel is dead
05:38 < Juesto> oh well
05:38 < sysRPL> yeah i have been doing research
05:38 < sysRPL> "Flags: Read / Write / Construct Only" https://webkitgtk.org/reference/webkitgtk/stable/webkitgtk-webkitwebview.html#WebKitWebView--self-scrolling
05:39 < boblamont> nai: thanks
05:40 < boblamont> Juesto: in this case, I think it's ok if it errors out, I'm more interested in the new file being created than making sure the old one moved successfully (so it gets its one shot, and it either makes it or it doesn't)
05:40 < Juesto> you're taking a good measure because if the move fails it just would remain there, i think
05:40 < Juesto> and you could try again
05:41 < Juesto> well depends on how severe it ends up
05:41 < Juesto> but if everything's doing fine and it's unlikely to fail
05:41 < Juesto> then good luck without that extra check
05:44 < boblamont> yeah, I'm not sure yet if the old one sticking around will cause problems with the new one, if it does, I'll have to add steps... I don't think there's a force overwrite option, I think that's the default
05:45 < granttrec> anything like suckless that is a little more beginner friendly, looking for a simple window manager
05:49 < nai> bspwm, 2bwm
05:51 < Psi-Jack> Ninetails: Seems you have a few too many nicks. :p
05:52 < stevendale> Psi-Jack, Maybe :P
06:00 < oplevunus> So the internet connection speed of my raspberry pi seems to go down the longer the uptime is
06:01 < sauvin> lovingninetails, let's keep the nick changes to a minimum.
06:02 < oplevunus> I could probably just set a cronjob to restart shortly before the backup starts, but that feels dirty
06:05 < lovingninetails> sauvin, I don't think you can tell me to do that unless you're a freenode op
06:06 < pnbeast> lovingninetails, the funny thing is, anyone here can tell you that.  But an op can do something about it.
06:06 < lovingninetails> If it's spammy, then sure, but otherwise that probably isn't allowed
06:07 < Psi-Jack> It is rather spammy
06:07 < pnbeast> lovingninetails, it'd be nice if you'd quit annoying people.  It's a big channel with a lot of traffic.
06:07 < sauvin> What pnbeast waid.
06:07 < sauvin> Said, even.
06:07 < pnbeast> I would have waid it, if I'd thought of it.
06:09 < sauvin> Well, I meant what I waid, but I waid it in the wrong place.
06:09 < sauvin> Or the wrong way, or something.
06:10 < lovingninetails> Are we gonna stop the drama like you asked sauvin or are we all gonna be hypocrites?
06:10 < kyloren_> Hi guys. Anyone using statusengine before? How to register this php script (/opt/statusengine/worker/bin/StatusengineWorker.php) in init.d? I can register it just find in systemd.
06:11 < sauvin> kyloren_, I wasn't aware that php is ever used in any kind of system software. What is it?
06:14 < [R]> sauvin: all the cool kids write shell scripts in php
06:15 < kyloren_> <sauvin> It's just broker module for monitoring tools
06:16 < sauvin> o.O in php!?
06:16 < sauvin> What is this "registration" process? How is it done?
06:21 < Psi-Jack> [R]: Nah man. They make "crons" in PHP.
06:22 < [R]> is that a type of drug?
06:22 < TheDcoder> Hello, is there a way to go "incognito" in bash? By default it records the commands...
06:22 < [R]> TheDcoder: help hist
06:22 < TheDcoder> thanks
06:26 < Aph3x-WL> TheDcoder: if you put a space before a command it won't record it
06:27 < TheDcoder> That's neat! Good to know, I will try it now
06:27 < TheDcoder> Hmm... it is not really working :-/
06:28 < TheDcoder> I can still use ^ to get it back
06:29 < TheDcoder> And strange enough, it works in fish
06:29 < TheDcoder> not sure what is wrong with my bash
06:32 < boblamont> ok, so in almost the opposite of my last question, I have three parallel commands, and I want to wait and run another command after one of the three ends, but not wait for the other two... I tried listing the one I want followed up on last, and using the %- jobspec (for "previous job"), which didn't work. Is there a way to connect a wait to a specific command in a relative way (as opposed to specifying the process id)?
06:33 < velix> Yipee, I've ran out of inodes again.
06:34  * pnbeast searches his partition for a free inode to email to velix.
06:34 < velix> pnbeast: the email took another inode :(
06:34 < kyloren_> sauvin I should have worded it properly. By register I meant make it start on boot.
06:34 < kyloren_> Just like apache and mysql
06:34 < Sitri> boblamont: (touch lock_file; command_to_wait; rm lock_file) & command_alpha & command_beta; while [ -f lock_file ]; do sleep 5; done
06:34 < kyloren_> It's easy in systemd but I struggling in init.d
06:35 < pnbeast> velix, just a second, I think I have some in shared memory.  Can you use shm inodes or do you need some from a plain, old, spinning disk?  I don't have any ssd inodes.
06:35 < Sitri> ... actually (command_to_wait; command after it) & ...
06:35 < velix> pnbeast: I like them with cheese.
06:36 < pnbeast> Oh, yeah, rare inodes with bleu cheese and caramelized onions on top!  It rules!
06:36 < velix> pnbeast: I found the reason: mkfs.ext4 -b 2048 -I 128 -N 2000000 -m 1
06:36 < velix> pnbeast: I'm soo stupid. I need -N 3000000 !
06:37 < pnbeast> velix, are you doing something that writes a bunch of small files?  That's the only time I've ever run out.
06:37 < velix> pnbeast: exactly.
06:37 < velix> pnbeast: damn small files.
06:37 < pnbeast> Yeah, they're expensive.  Stupid files.
06:37 < velix> pnbeast: I'm saving them in a container file on my FS. So no problem ;)
06:38 < velix> pnbeast: I just was too stupid at setting the image up.
06:38 < pnbeast> I see.
06:39 < boblamont> Sitri: thanks!
06:39 < sauvin> I'll take my inodes with marinara sauce and lots of chopped onions and garlic.
06:40 < pnbeast> Garlic?  Garlic doesn't go with inodes.  Have a little couth.
06:40 < [R]> compiling cmake requires cmake
06:41 < [R]> cmake-ception
06:41 < velix> sauvin: Subway in Germany doesn't have marinara sauce and meatballs for 10 years now :((
06:41 < velix> sauvin: I'm writing to them once a week.
06:41 < sauvin> I would, too. You're describing a crime against humanity.
06:41 < pnbeast> You let subway in your country?  Mistake number one...
06:41 < [R]> pnbeast: eat fresh!
06:41 < velix> sauvin: I mean, there are pigs and cows dying and no meatballs are produced out of them!
06:42 < sauvin> Germany's been letting *everybody* in lately. Even Americans!
06:42 < pnbeast> Says Jared...
06:42 < velix> pnbeast: Subway has reached peak on about 2004 here, then most of them closed.
06:42 < velix> pnbeast: Their strategy and concept doesn't work here.
06:42 < [R]> theres like 3 subways in a few mile radius around me
06:43 < pnbeast> Ouch!  Get out while you can, [R]!
06:43 < velix> pnbeast: Germany is famous for its bread and baken products.
06:43 < [R]> pnbeast: lol
06:43 < velix> pnbeast: Every baker has similar products with fresh toppings.
06:43 < pnbeast>  velix, yes, I've visited.  So why would you allow subway, and if you did, anyway, why would anyone eat there?
06:43 < velix> pnbeast: hehe, nobody did. That's why most of them closed.
06:44 < [R]> pnbeast: where would you prefer i go?
06:44 < [R]> where else can one eat fresh?
06:44 < velix> pnbeast: And even the forks closed. Ehm ... subway clones, you know what I mean :)
06:44 < velix> pnbeast: We had "Mr. Sub" and "Fresh Sub" etc.
06:44 < velix> pnbeast: Star Sub...
06:45 < velix> Even Starbucks is having a bad time here, since you can get coffee about anywhere. Like in the Netherlands.
06:45 < pnbeast> I heard Starbucks just joined the "you're melanin-impaired, you'll have to leave" bandwagon.
06:46 < velix> :D
06:47 < sauvin> I know Subway has nothing to eat that *I* want.
06:51 < [R]> sauvin: bread, meats, cheeses...
06:51 < [R]> who could say no to taht
06:51 < _stuart> lactose intolerant vegans?
06:51 < _stuart> with celiac
06:52 < pnbeast> [R], I guess if you have to be surrounded by a chain restaurant, you should pick one of the upscale things.  Red Lobster?
06:52 < _stuart> classy
06:52 < [R]> pnbeast: their biscuits are reall good
06:53 < pnbeast> Oh, yeah, they are.  I think they basically soak them in butter and salt or something like that.
06:53 < [R]> lol
07:01 < ttyX> how do I login on a device using ssh where ssh key length is less than 1024 bit?
07:01 < ttyX> it won't let me
07:02 < Sitri> What's the actual error you're getting?
07:02 < ttyX> ssh_dispatch_run_fatal: Connection to xx.xx.xx.xx port 22: Invalid key length
07:02 < ttyX> I know that this has 768 bit key
07:02 < ttyX> Cisco router
07:04 < Sitri> Looks like you're going to have to connect to it using an older distro (temporarily) to fix it
07:04 < Sitri> OpenSSH 7.6 ended support for really short keys.
07:04 < ttyX> wow no override?
07:04 < Sitri> https://supportforums.cisco.com/t5/lan-switching-and-routing/asr-1001-x-ssh-invalid-key-length/td-p/3222141
07:04 < hexnewbie> ttyX: Upgrade the router's firmware if that's an option, buy a new router, and as a last resort, install an older SSH client - say, in /opt/vulnerablessh/ - do **not** make the old SSH client default.
07:05 < Sitri> Search for "support of RSA keys < 1024 was"
07:05 < Sitri> hexnewbie: There's a command on the router to regen the key with more bits
07:05 < ttyX> hexnewbie, I'll change the key length but need to check some real quick for now
07:05 < hexnewbie> Or that, yeah
07:06 < phre4k> maybe dumb question: can I use an ssh forwarded port reversely to connect from the destination to my PC? so if I do ssh -L 80:localhost:8080 I can connect to remote-server:8080 and get the local webserver?
07:06 < hexnewbie> (Although I'd still say if it defaults to 768 bits it needs a firmware upgrade :) )
07:08 < maboc> @phre4k I believe you can not.
07:08 < Psi-Jack> maboc: <-- That's the standard IRC nick highlight,
07:11 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: still worked
07:12 < phre4k> seems that https://github.com/saghul/TunnelIt exists
07:13 < phre4k> but last commit 7y ago and I guess that python had a few updates since then
07:13 < oplevunus> Does anyone know what could cause network connection speed to lower with growing uptime?
07:13 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, What's the goal?
07:13 < TaZeR> holy crap so many weird ip adresses attacked me when i opened my sshd
07:13 < Psi-Jack> TaZeR: Bots.
07:14 < Psi-Jack> ssh is a popular port. heh
07:14 < TaZeR> yea they try to brute force the password
07:14 < TaZeR> so i install sshguard and it bans them tehe
07:14 < Juesto> yes good
07:14 < Psi-Jack> Server, or desktop?
07:14 < pnbeast> That's one reason so many people recommend disabling password logins in SSH.
07:14 < Juesto> or changing the port does the trick too
07:14 < Psi-Jack> Obfuscation != security. :p
07:14 < phre4k> TaZeR: if you want to reduce load a bit, change the port
07:15 < Juesto> most bots don't care about port scana
07:15 < phre4k> … AND disable password logins
07:15 < Juesto> scans*
07:15 < phre4k> use a port <1024 though
07:15 < Psi-Jack> Just a secure password is sufficient. :p
07:15 < Juesto> why <1024 for sshd
07:15 < phre4k> I like to use obscure service's ports
07:15 < Psi-Jack> Juesto: $random
07:16 < Juesto> why root only ports
07:16 < phre4k> Juesto: because that's a privileged port and only root and CAP_NET_ADMIN'ed processes can open these ports
07:16 < Psi-Jack> Like that matters. :)
07:16 < revel> ^
07:16 < Juesto> and? i mean isn't safer to use a user port or something like that
07:16 < revel> After the first time, it'll check the keys every time.
07:17 < phre4k> imagine someone infecting your web server, crashing SSH with an exploit and then starting a malicious sshd on the corresponding port
07:17 < revel> ~/.ssh/known_hosts is a thing.
07:17 < Psi-Jack> Better, is to actively monitor and react to these, because if a bot is coming from an IP trying to brute login as various users it never will succeed in doing, no need to allow them any other access. OSSEC is a great job of doing this in a multi-server scale.
07:17 < phre4k> revel: _after_ the first time, also, some people like to allow everything
07:18 < revel> "allow everything"?
07:18 < ttyX> hexnewbie, the funny thing is I was supposed to check the hardening on these routers but now I can't even get in to check
07:19 < sauvin> I know my linode used to get hit with craploads of Chinese connection attempts until I moved the sshd port.
07:19 < sauvin> Now I'm getting *nothing*.
07:19 < phre4k> maboc: just found out I need ssh's option "GatewayPorts=yes" :)
07:19 < revel> phre4k: If you have physical or prior access, then you can copy the keys over into known_hosts without connecting for a first time.
07:20 < phre4k> revel: indeed. An added layer of security is probably not the worst idea though
07:20 < revel> Obscurity, not security.
07:21 < phre4k> revel: lol, you didn't understand the issue here
07:21 < sauvin> Real security doesn't come from a *single* aspect; it's a collection of measures and processes.
07:21 < sauvin> In my case, moving the sshd port *helped*.
07:21 < phre4k> the obscurity of a port >1024 is just slightly higher than a port <1024 which is not 22.
07:21 < Psi-Jack> It doesn't help. It just obfuscates and reduces your monitoring ability.
07:21 < oplevunus> Psi-Jack: If that question was directed at me, server; I use it for offsite backups
07:21 < Sveta> why'd you move the sshd port if you can just disable passworded login?
07:22 < sauvin> Because at the time I still needed passworded logins.
07:22 < Psi-Jack> Me, I watch all the sshd traffic, and I react to it accordingly, banning the entire IP from all servers,
07:22 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: how does it _reduce_ your monitoring ability? Doesn't it increase it since you get less noise and more serious bots?
07:22 < hexnewbie> ttyX: Installing an older distro in a chroot (e.g. with debootstrap) is the quickest way for me, but I guess some people would prefer the local instlalation of OpenSSH
07:22 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: No.
07:22 < phre4k> Sveta: why not both?
07:22 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: "No" is not an answer to "how"
07:22 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: Because bots aren't going to just scan $other ports for sshd and brute force it.
07:22 < maboc> @phre4k nice ...I will look GatewaysPorts=yes also up. (did not use it before : +1)
07:24 < pnbeast> Set up Snort (with lots of inodes on the logging partition...) and watch the flood of probes roll in.  Attacks on SSH are just one slice of the whole, exciting pie.
07:25 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: Monitoring includes, watching and reacting, not just obfuscating by removing that. When bots try to login to my BBS, home server, web server, mail server, or any of my other public-facing servers, OSSEC monitors that, reacts when they try 5 times, and blocks them from every one of those servers, with increasing duration.
07:26 < Psi-Jack> pnbeast: Exactly. :)
07:26 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: one could argue that you'd like to add brute forcing hosts to your firewall so you reduce the attack surface on other services, but on the other hand many bots come from residential IPs which might be dynamic
07:27 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: Well, in my case, I have servers at home, vultr, AWS, and DigitalOcean. :)
07:27 < Psi-Jack> So, not the same firewall entry point.
07:27 < Psi-Jack> Oh, and I enable password logins. :)
07:27 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: would you recommend OSSEC for a workstation for file monitoring compared to tripwire?
07:28 < ttyX> hexnewbie, I just installed putty
07:28 < ttyX> working fine
07:28 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: OSSEC does log monitoring /and/ the same functionality tripwire/aide does, all in one, and uses 54mb memory doing so.
07:28 < phre4k> ttyX: remove it and install KiTTY or even install a proper shell like cygwin bash or WSL bash
07:29 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: can you disable log monitoring and only have the tripwire functionality?
07:29 < Psi-Jack> Sure. But that would be silly.
07:29 < Psi-Jack> OSSEC is HIDS, it's designed to monitor.
07:31 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: hm, I only need the file monitoring, maybe there's a better option than tripwire?
07:31 < phre4k> I know https://fbb-git.github.io/stealth/, but that doesn't work for me
07:32 < ttyX> phre4k, if you have another server to spare then wazuh, does much more ofc
07:32 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: What do you use for log monitoring?
07:32 < Psi-Jack> ttyX: "of course" not "ofc" for future self corrections.
07:33 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: *clears throat* nothing but Icinga, but no IDS; sometimes I use Snort as NIPS
07:33 < Psi-Jack> Icinga? Are you nuts? hehe
07:33 < Psi-Jack> Icinga doesn't monitor logs anyway. :p
07:33 < phre4k> I even use https://github.com/shirkdog/pulledpork because I'm damn lazy
07:34 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: why nuts? It works and it has a sexy dashboard
07:34 < Psi-Jack> Zabbix has a sexy dashboard. Icinga's just noisy and mixed up in an convoluted way. But, Icinga doesn't do log analysis/monitoring.
07:34 < phre4k> suggest something better apart from Nagios, check_mk, Naemon and sensu/uchiwa which has roughly the same functionality and a good UI
07:34 < phre4k> hm, so Zabbix?
07:35 < Psi-Jack> Zabbix does all that, for monitoring, all in one.
07:35 < Psi-Jack> Including graphs. Calculations, SLA, etc.
07:35 < phre4k> woah, Zabbix 3.0 surely has a better dashboard
07:35 < Psi-Jack> Indeed. :)
07:35 < ttyX> Check MK does it too
07:35 < phre4k> last time I used 2.2 or so
07:36 < Psi-Jack> Zabbix 3.4 is pure awesome.
07:36 < phre4k> Zabbix does seem like an all in one solution though, how's the configuration compared to Icinga?
07:36 < Psi-Jack> You can template everything to be modular.
07:36 < Psi-Jack> You can even use Zabbix to install custom agents these days so it's fully centralized.
07:39 < phre4k> does it work agent-less?
07:39 < Psi-Jack> It... can. But it's better with the zabbix agent, which is very lightweight in memory consumption, and written in C.
07:39 < jimm> how do zabbix and ossec compare, starting with purpose?
07:39 < Psi-Jack> And supports encryption now. :)
07:40 < Psi-Jack> zabbix is monitoring systems, ossec is log analysis and intrusion detection, HIDS.
07:40 < Psi-Jack> Zabbix /can/ monitor logs, but it's never been "good" at it. And it's not at all for analysis like OSSEC is.
07:44 < Psi-Jack> jmadero_zzz: Please disable that Away nick.
07:44 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: can you do distributed monitoring? couldn't find much on the homepage
07:45 < Equalizer44> Hi i have question
07:45 < Equalizer44> About Linux
07:45 < Psi-Jack> jmadero_away: Equally as bad/silly/annoying.
07:46 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: Distributed monitoring in what way?
07:46 < pnbeast> Equalizer44, if only there were some channel on Freenode where you could *ask* that question.
07:46 < Equalizer44> Is there a system32 like in linux
07:46 < Equalizer44> where u delete it and damage pc
07:46 < phre4k> Equalizer44: install Linux and find out
07:46 < pnbeast> This is going very well, so far.
07:46 < Psi-Jack> Equalizer44: "you" not "u" for future self corrections. Using Enter excessively is also annoying.
07:47 < phre4k> Equalizer44: http://www.tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/sect_03_01.html
07:47 < Equalizer44> Ok
07:47 < sauvin> wtf is "system32"?
07:47 < Equalizer44> Someone said to me hes gonna crash my pc i have linux
07:47 < Equalizer44> i wonder if theres a folder he can delete
07:47 < pnbeast> I'm pretty sure he's talking about an alternative OS.  Maybe one of those commercial ones.
07:48 < Equalizer44> no he knows i have linux
07:48 < sauvin> Crashing Linux ain't easy.
07:48 < Equalizer44> ok
07:48 < Equalizer44> crashing windows is easy?
07:48 < ttyX> isn't /usr/lib & /usr/lib64 sort of system32?
07:49 < revel> sauvin: Sure it is.
07:49 < revel> I know of at least one instant way :D
07:49 < phre4k> Equalizer44: don't give him access to your PC then
07:49 < ttyX> rm -rf /*
07:49 < Psi-Jack> revel: Pull the SATA cable off the main HDD?
07:49 < revel> Or two, but a sysrq combo that specifically causes a kernel panic isn't very sporting.
07:49 < revel> Psi-Jack: No, it's to do with /dev/port
07:49 < phre4k> Equalizer44: if he threatened you over the internet, you should be safe
07:50 < Psi-Jack> ttyX: ...
07:50 < sauvin> ttyX, don't do that.
07:50 < phre4k> Equalizer44: also, which distribution do you use?
07:50 < ttyX> well he wants to find out
07:50 < Equalizer44> ubuntu
07:50 < Equalizer44> [6667]ThinkTank
07:50 < Equalizer44> should i delete ussr lib to find out
07:50 < phre4k> Equalizer44: stop spamming the enter button
07:51 < Psi-Jack> You have a russian user?
07:51 < phre4k> Equalizer44: this is not WhatsApp, here you're expected to be able to type a sentence longer than a single word into a single line
07:51 < Equalizer44> Phre4k im chill
07:52 < phre4k> I don't know what that means, but thanks for your compliance
07:52 < Psi-Jack> heh
07:52 < phre4k> Equalizer44: don't delete your system files unless you don't need that system, e.g. if it's in a VM
07:52 < Equalizer44> This chat is quite spammy too.
07:52 < Equalizer44> I beliece i must part.
07:52 < Equalizer44> Ty for help
07:53 < Psi-Jack> Android IRCer.
07:54 < sauvin> Eek!
07:54 < sauvin> Now I have to shower.
07:54 < Psi-Jack> Cold one or hot one?
07:54 < hexnewbie> The neighbours turning the hot and cold water repeatedly on and off to esnure it's both?
07:55 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, a *soapy* one.
07:55 < Psi-Jack> Ooooh.
08:00 < phre4k> is there a secure netcat? Like, can you encapsule it in SSL or something like that?
08:00 < phre4k> NEVERMIND
08:00 < Sitri> socat
08:00 < phre4k> just typed "secure netcat" into google an, er, I'm ashamed to tell you "snetcat" exists
08:00 < Psi-Jack> And there's also stunnel, stud, and various other methods, including ssh tunneling.
08:00 < MetaNova> heh
08:01 < phre4k> oh wait, my netcat also has an --ssl option
08:01 < hexnewbie> And one should just ssh (even without tunnelling at this point)
08:02 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: what would you recommend for forwarding a local service that is not SSH and bandwidth intensive to the internet?
08:02 < phre4k> (or rather @ channel)
08:03 < TaZeR> could someone take a look at this log stuff and tell me if this is normal behaviour for when memory is reaching maximum and swap file is being used? because my entire system freezes for a few minutes
08:03 < TaZeR> http://ix.io/17TV
08:03 < hexnewbie> phre4k: What does forwarding stand for? In cheap routers it means DNAT, but I suspect you want a VPN with it (e.g. OpenVPN)
08:03 < [R]> TaZeR: is your systme going to horribly break when you're out of memory? yes
08:03 < TaZeR> and it crashed one of my programs
08:03 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: What're you actually trying to do?
08:04 < phre4k> hexnewbie: I have a homeserver which serves a few daemons and I want to make it available from the internet without having a static IP or having to open ports in my local router
08:04 < TaZeR> i dont know ive never experienced this issue on other computers, it simply says out of memory when it happens
08:04 < [R]> phre4k: so magic...
08:04 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, magic?
08:05 < phre4k> ssh -L … -o GatewayPorts=yes already works -.-
08:05 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: Open an OpenVPN port, run OpenVPN, connect to OpenVPN, bridge your networks.
08:06 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: no
08:06 < phre4k> I just said I do not want to open ports
08:06 < Psi-Jack> Yet, you have to.
08:06 < phre4k> my ISP uses DSLite
08:06 < hexnewbie> phre4k: I'm using the solution Psi-Jack recommends, although no bridge, just tunnel with DNAT.
08:06 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: don't get into semantics, of course my router will open an outgoing port
08:06 < Psi-Jack> If you want it accessible from the internet, you have to open at least ONE port.
08:07 < Psi-Jack> To /do/ something.
08:07 < phre4k> hexnewbie: isn't that unencrypted? (does that even matter?)
08:07 < hexnewbie> By tunnel I mean OpenVPN in tunnelling mode, rather than tap mode
08:07 < [R]> hexnewbie: you like to tap that?
08:07 < Psi-Jack> hexnewbie: Yeah, I have dual openvpn servers. One for TAP one for TUN.
08:07 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: you didn't understand the issue, please refrain from giving advice unless you read it again
08:07 < hexnewbie> phre4k: What would be unencrypted?
08:07 < phre4k> hexnewbie: the DNAT tunnel
08:07 < Psi-Jack> Three others acting as route between openvpn clients to my AWS, Vultr, and DO services.
08:08 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: I only misunderstood, because you were unclear of actual goals. :)
08:08 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: you even said "And there's also stunnel, stud, and various other methods, including ssh tunneling."
08:09 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, for tunneling tcp, aka, netcat in this case.
08:10 < hexnewbie> phre4k: Those are netcat alternatives. Those are to be used for temporary applications (including pet projects like writing web browsers in bash), not as permanent tunnelling solutions. the SSH doc explicitly tells you not to use it for permanent tunnels (a rule that I have often violated whenever temporary tunnels remained in primary use)
08:10 < phre4k> it's all TCP, I just wonder if encapsulating TCP into SSH would be a good idea, because I feel it drops a lot of performance
08:10 < [R]> drop it like it's hot
08:11 < phre4k> ok so I should probably openVPN from home → remote and then forward from remote → openVPN IP of my homeserver, right?
08:12 < phre4k> in tun mode?
08:12 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: I'll try once more. What is your /actual/ goals here?
08:12 < phre4k> any thoughts on wireguard for that task?
08:12 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: I already stated my goals, scroll up
08:12 < Psi-Jack> In that case. Good luck.
08:12 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: <phre4k> hexnewbie: I have a homeserver which serves a few daemons and I want to make it available from the internet without having a static IP or having to open ports in my local router
08:13 < Psi-Jack> Impossible.
08:13 < hexnewbie> phre4k: Well, [R] told you that part is impossible
08:13 < Psi-Jack> End of story.
08:13 < phre4k> your attitude annoys me at times, although you're really helpful and knowledgeable
08:13 < Psi-Jack> I am really knowledgable. One of the most knowledgable here. ;)
08:13 < phre4k> hahaha, I know it's not impossible because I have fucking done it
08:14 < [R]> lol
08:14 < hexnewbie> phre4k: You can't get a static IP without a static IP
08:14 < Psi-Jack> No, what you're suggesting is impossible. You can do what you want wihtout a static IP, but you need an open port somewhere.
08:14 < [R]> phre4k: please watcch the language
08:14 < phre4k> hexnewbie: that's not what I said
08:14 < phre4k> okay, I'll try to explain once more
08:15 < Psi-Jack> Whether you have your computer connect somewhere else and you open THAT up to the world, or you open a port from your router to a "secure" instance of some kind that provides an inbound access point, whether it be ssh or openvpn or something.
08:15 < hexnewbie> Well, dynamic DNS is unreliable, but also obviously not what phre4k is after
08:15 < Psi-Jack> There's going to be an open port somewhere, or you ain't doing it.
08:15 < t0mato> can't you connect the home connection to a remote openvpn server and then reverse proxy connections (on a specific port) to the home server through the vpn?
08:16 < t0mato> that way the only open ports would be on the remote openvpn server
08:16 < Psi-Jack> t0mato: That was basically a scenario I just described (you with more specifics)
08:16 < Psi-Jack> But, again: Still an open port.  ;)
08:16 < phre4k> I have a daemon on my home server, lets say it listens on 0.0.0.0:1234. Also I have an internet/remote server, let's say it's 8.7.6.5. Now I want port 12345 on the remote server to be forwarded to the homeserver, regardless of which IP my residential internet already has. I could use some DynDNS, but that'd expose my home IP. So what I'm doing right now is what I mentioned with GatewayPorts=yes.
08:17 < phre4k> I could always print that out and send it to you by postal service, Psi-Jack
08:17 < t0mato> TCP-over-letter would also be a good option
08:17 < phre4k> t0mato: that's probably what I'm going to do
08:17 < t0mato> doesn't require any ports
08:17 < Psi-Jack> t0mato: It does.
08:18 < phre4k> t0mato: RFC 1149
08:18 < Psi-Jack> Heh, oh, tcp over letter. Yeah, uh huh.
08:18 < [R]> t0mato: avian
08:18 < [R]> t0mato: much faster
08:18 < t0mato> heh
08:18 < phre4k> Psi-Jack: tell me how I would have to manually open a port on my local router to forward to my PC in that setting?
08:18 < phre4k> Are you retarded?
08:18 < [R]> lets get it started in here...
08:19 < Psi-Jack> phre4k: You'd setup OpenVPN to connec to 8.7.6.5, push routes accordingly.
08:19 < Psi-Jack> TaDa!
08:19 < phre4k> hm, thanks for nothing as hexnewbie already told me that
08:19 < phre4k> <phre4k> any thoughts on wireguard for that task?
08:20 < Psi-Jack> ...
08:21  * Psi-Jack looked back, and no, he didn't say that.
08:22 < t0mato> lol
08:22 < Psi-Jack> BYE! Don't let the door beat you up on the way out
08:23 < Psi-Jack> heh
08:23  * Psi-Jack rolls his eyes.
08:24 < Psi-Jack> I don't get people sometimes. Ask a question, be completely rude to the people trying to offer help.
08:26 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: lovingninetails is still at it...
08:27 < lovingninetails> Psi-Jack, Oh? So I'm not allowed to use nickserv group now?
08:27 < Psi-Jack> You don't need to be IN the channel to do so.
08:28 < Psi-Jack> So.... No.
08:28 < jimm> I think you can only group 20 nicks to your acct... so you're done soon?
08:28 < lovingninetails> I don't actually care what you think
08:28 < lovingninetails> I'm done... for tonight, yes
08:28 < jimm> sounds good to me :)
08:28 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, we have anothjer one.
08:28  * Psi-Jack looks to FiX 
08:29 < lovingninetails> jimm, Somebody else needs to be told o/
08:29 < Psi-Jack> EiX: Stop
08:29 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, that's downright nick flooding.
08:29 < t0mato> I'm glad I have nick changes hidden
08:29 < lovingninetails> There he goes, thanks freenode bot o/
08:29 < sauvin> Bingo.
08:30 < sauvin> I was out getting some donuts. Yes, that's a bannable offense.
08:30 < lovingninetails> elfmacs (~elfmacs@159.226.199.101) has joined
08:30 < lovingninetails> Here's the join message so they can get banned o/
08:30 < sauvin> A kline is a net-wide ban. Good 'nuff for this grumpy old fart.
08:31 < [R]> sauvin: is it time to make the donuts?
08:31 < sauvin> lovingninetails, what makes you think I don't have grep-able logs?
08:31 < sauvin> [R], no, it's time to EAT the donuts.
08:31 < [R]> sauvin: greppable logs? sounds kinky
08:31 < Psi-Jack> [R]: What about... mountable logs?
08:31 < lovingninetails> ;)
08:32 < [R]> Psi-Jack: oh yeah!
08:32 < Psi-Jack> Wanna finger those logs?
08:33 < sauvin> Mine are the worse kind, you can do things like 'select account, nick, ident, host from log_join where host in (select host from log_join where nick='idiot');
08:34 < Psi-Jack> heh. Mine are even better, Solr indexed. :)
08:34 < sauvin> What's 'solr'?
08:34 < Psi-Jack> Apache Solr
08:34 < sauvin> OK, what's 'apache solr'?
08:34 < Psi-Jack> Document Indexing engine.
08:35 < sauvin> Ah. I dont' think I need anything quite so massive or baroque.
08:35 < Psi-Jack> Oh, it's not massive. Besides the java part anyway.
08:35 < sauvin> Java? I stand by what I said.
08:36 < Psi-Jack> It just treats every line of irc as a specific schema and indexes each part accordingly with the plugin I wrote for ZNC :)
08:37 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. WordPress is surprisingly functional, now that I actually better understand how to use it. heh
08:37 < [R]> didnt you smack talk wordpress at one point?
08:38 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. For security issues, yes.
08:38 < [R]> lol
08:38 < Psi-Jack> There's some good things about it, and some bad, obviously, as with any CMS.
08:38 < [R]> i used to use wordpress back in the day
08:38 < [R]> like 04-05
08:38 < Psi-Jack> Heh. Well, right now, I'm using Grav, which is pretty cool.
08:39 < Psi-Jack> But, I'm tinkering with Wordpress in my home VM for tinkering with things.
08:39 < Psi-Jack> Thinking I might like it better with markdown thogh.
08:45 < trae32566[w]> I just do flat HTML for basic stuffs
08:47 < Psi-Jack> Grav takes Markdown static files and turns it into a CMS from that.
08:51 < Equalizer44> Can you have multiple distros
08:52 < ayecee> who's going to stop you
08:52 < t0mato> the linux police
08:52  * Psi-Jack grabs a gun. "I might."
08:52 < trae32566[w]> the linux gremlins
08:52 < trae32566[w]> dammit
08:52 < Equalizer44> gunslingers
08:52 < trae32566[w]> I mean sometimes you have to
08:52 < ayecee> ah, gunslingers. always messing up my linux installs.
08:52 < trae32566[w]> depending on what you consider a distro
08:52 < Equalizer44> Back in the day we called them SHOOTISTS
08:53 < trae32566[w]> back in the olden times?
08:53 < Equalizer44> ya
08:53 < pnbeast> The main reason for Brexit was that the EU demands each person have no more than one distro.  The British are famously in favor of having multiple distros, sometimes as many as four.  So, they said "screw this" and bailed.
08:54 < Psi-Jack> Back in WHAT day? heh
08:54 < Psi-Jack> trae32566[w]: Nothing to "consider". A distro of Linux is a distribution of which is... Distributed.
08:54 < trae32566[w]> well yeah, but you get into odd cases like Vyatta
08:54 < Psi-Jack> It's distributed.
08:54 < trae32566[w]> I mean /technically/ yes, but ... it's firmware
08:55 < Psi-Jack> It's not firmware.
08:55 < pnbeast> Vyatta?  Is that something I get spams about?
08:55 < trae32566[w]> well no, but for all tents and purses it is
08:55 < Psi-Jack> pnbeast: Unlikely. heh
08:56 < [R]> your mom is firmware
08:56 < Equalizer44> Back in 1862
08:56 < Equalizer44> When i was under the command of stonewall jackson
08:56 < Psi-Jack> Equalizer44: You weren't alive back then. :P
08:56 < trae32566[w]> read only image, UFS overlay for changes, pretty much the same as router firmware
08:56 < trae32566[w]> which is why EdgeOS was not far off it
08:57 < Equalizer44> psi-jack is there something like open source hardware
08:57 < Psi-Jack> trae32566[w]: EdgeOS is based on Vyatta, in part, because Ubiquity hired the guy that made Vyatta.
08:57 < sauvin> [R], your mom *wishes* she could have some firm wares.
08:57 < trae32566[w]> and then he left
08:57 < Psi-Jack> No, he's still there.
08:58 < trae32566[w]> who exactly are you referring to? much of their talent has left
08:58 < Equalizer44> Im very new to IRC i feel like i live in 2006 again
09:00 < Equalizer44> Do most Linux users wear fedoras
09:00 < [R]> no
09:01 < t0mato> only fedora users
09:01 < ayecee> only for formal occasions
09:01 < Psi-Jack> Fedora's don't fit me well.
09:01 < [R]> ayecee: and first dates
09:01 < sauvin> Well, some of those Fedora users wear the kinds of hats that are stacked really high and made of many different kinds of fruits.
09:01 < Equalizer44> But how are you going to hide all that hairloss after installing the OSA *badum tss*
09:01 < trae32566[w]> no no, that's Ubuntu.
09:01  * trae32566[w] runs.
09:02 < Equalizer44> os*
09:02 < Equalizer44> Tbh a hat is always useful
09:02 < noname___> i installed docker-compose and i can run it with "/usr/local/bin/docker-compose" but i cant run it with just the command "docker-compose" why???
09:02 < Equalizer44> Everyone should own one.
09:02 < trae32566[w]> hair loss only comes as part of the current Wayland transition.
09:03 < Equalizer44> trae sadly im alrdy bald so no more threat for me
09:03 < geirha> noname___: sounds like you don't have /usr/local/bin in PATH for some reason
09:04 < noname___> @geirha: yes that was the problem. i thought i checked it several times last week and it was in there.... but it wasnt...
09:04 < noname___> thx man
09:05 < trae32566[w]> well if you're just setting it in the terminal, you need to set that permanently as well
09:05 < Psi-Jack> noname___: "thanks" not "thx" for future self corrections.
09:05 < noname___> psi-jack: reason?
09:05 < Equalizer44> can u use a PC without needing a mouse
09:05 < Psi-Jack> noname___: It's the rules.
09:05 < noname___> no.
09:06 < t0mato> Equalizer44: Yeah
09:06 < noname___> thx.
09:06 < Psi-Jack> Equalizer44: "you" not "u" for future corrections.
09:06 < Psi-Jack> noname___: Actually, it is.
09:06 < trae32566[w]> Psi-Jack: shhh, I almost commented on your "Fedora's"
09:06 < sauvin> The reason is that SMS-style English is actively discouraged in this channel.
09:06 < noname___> thats bad cause i give a fuck on rules
09:06 < Psi-Jack> Bye then!
09:06 < noname___> bbut thx for your correction
09:06 < Equalizer44> wow
09:06 < trae32566[w]> Fedora's  -> Fedoras, it's not something of fedora's ownership, it's multiple fedoras.
09:06 < Equalizer44> Fedoras is the right spelling
09:06 < t0mato> bye
09:07 < sauvin> I don't give a fudge, either. :P
09:07 < Psi-Jack> hehe
09:07 < Equalizer44> Is it because this chat is a professional environment
09:07 < t0mato> I only join this channel while wearing a suit
09:07 < trae32566[w]> nah, just cause he felt like it prolly. It's IRC
09:07 < Equalizer44> DAMN
09:07 < sauvin> Equalizer44, more like "international". I, for one, don't easily understand English language phonetics.
09:07 < Equalizer44> A suit?
09:08 < trae32566[w]> oh. interesting.
09:08 < Psi-Jack> t0mato: A suit of armor? Don't go into a House of Parliament with that.
09:08 < trae32566[w]> well, there's an image given out in #rhel for this occasion, but probably not here XD
09:08 < geirha> If you're caught IRC-ing in here without a tie, it's straight out the door for you
09:09 < trae32566[w]> a tie and underwear? that's just silly!
09:09  * sauvin gives geirha a necktie made from hemp
09:09 < Psi-Jack> trae32566[w]: That's what she said!
09:09 < jimm> Equalizer44, we like to think this is an environment where pros participate, and, it's also one where totally new people can come for help or to get info (and everything inbetween)
09:09 < Equalizer44> Does a 30 pound golden necklace count as a tie
09:09 < quint> So I've got a large file containing un-encoded URIs. What's the fastest way to "percent encode" all of the URIs in a file?
09:09 < trae32566[w]> is it real or fake?
09:09 < trae32566[w]> do I even have to ask <.<
09:09 < Equalizer44> ☆.☆
09:10 < Equalizer44> so i need to act as if i know all about linux here
09:10 < Equalizer44> and copy paste things from wikipedia to sound smart
09:10 < jimm> no, you can also be totally new to linux
09:11 < sauvin> Equalizer44, if you just do the copy/paste thing, you'll just make yourself look like an idiot.
09:11 < Equalizer44> okay
09:11 < sauvin> There's not one damn thing wrong with being a n00b.
09:11 < ayecee> indeed. there's a bunch of damn things.
09:11 < geirha> quint: using a general purpose language, like python or perl, would probably be the quickest and easiest
09:11 < Psi-Jack> As long as when you ask for help, you remain respectful and willing to learn.
09:12 < quint> geirha: yeah i'll give it a whirl.
09:12 < sauvin> I personally don't even  need you to be particularly "respectful", just maintain a civil mien.
09:12 < Equalizer44> How old is this channel
09:12 < sauvin> Couple of decades, I think.
09:12 < Psi-Jack> As old as Freenode Network.
09:12 < well_laid_lawn> see the topic
09:12 < jimm> older than dirt and younger than most stars
09:12 < Equalizer44> Has linus torvalds ever been here
09:12 < Psi-Jack> No.
09:12 < Ben64> Maybe.
09:12 < Psi-Jack> Linus doesn't IRC
09:12 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, not that we know of.
09:13 < Equalizer44> Is it a personal issue
09:13 < Psi-Jack> Nope. Linus doesn
09:13 < well_laid_lawn> he'd swear while he did
09:13 < Psi-Jack> Doesn't IRC ;)
09:13 < Ben64> not that you know
09:13 < ayecee> he never calls, he never writes...
09:13 < Psi-Jack> It took an act of god just to get him to Google+
09:13 < sauvin> It wouldn't make sense. It'd be an awful lot like any of *us* dropping in on a kindergarten.
09:13 < trae32566[w]> I can't imagine so, that'd be an invitation for people spamming him
09:13 < ayecee> yeah, they asked me to stop doing that
09:13 < jimm> okok, this linux issue is getting heated :)
09:14 < t0mato> Psi-Jack: I'm still convinced that he's the only one actively /using/ g+
09:14 < jimm> linus that is
09:14 < sauvin> What "linux issue"?
09:14 < sauvin> Oh.
09:14 < Equalizer44> why is the penguin symbolic for linux
09:14 < Psi-Jack> t0mato: heh
09:14 < sauvin> I'm not feeling any heat.
09:14 < lovingninetails> ayecee, Are you quoting StarCraft II o/
09:14 < Psi-Jack> Equalizer44: A penguin bit Linus.
09:14 < Ben64> a penguin bit my sister once
09:14 < pnbeast> I'm feeling some hot air.
09:14 < jimm> sauvin, mistype. linuS issue
09:14 < trae32566[w]> I am too
09:14 < ayecee> no?
09:14 < sauvin> Still not feeling any BTUs.
09:15 < Equalizer44> So he became fascinated
09:15 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: What about BDU's? :)
09:15 < jcarpenter2> how likely is it that there is an animal that bit two people in this room?
09:15 < Equalizer44> The penguin bite inspired him to make an os
09:15 < trae32566[w]> this is devolving quickly
09:15 < lovingninetails> jcarpenter2, What? Like Foxy? :3
09:15 < ayecee> i give it better than 50/50
09:15 < jcarpenter2> i don't know who Foxy is
09:16 < Equalizer44> Whats the best browser for Linux
09:16 < t0mato> emacs
09:16 < trae32566[w]> whichever one you can use Google best in.
09:16 < trae32566[w]> :D
09:16 < jcarpenter2> i can imagine the penguin bite becoming swollen with penguin fetuses
09:16 < sauvin> Equalizer44, try a few and answer that question for yourself.
09:16 < jcarpenter2> it eventually pops and they all crawl out
09:16 < lovingninetails> Equalizer44, Google Chrome if you don't need plugins, Firefox ESR if you do
09:16 < t0mato> jcarpenter2: '_>'
09:16 < jimm> actually it was because he wanted a unix-like os anyway, and his excuse was, "oh, there;s this new chip called a 386... I shouold learn it"
09:16 < sauvin> jcarpenter2, you've been watching too much Hollywood.
09:16 < Equalizer44> ok
09:17 < sauvin> Equalizer44, the reason I say that is that what works for me may not suit you very well.
09:17 < Equalizer44> true
09:17 < Psi-Jack> And, there is no "best" as "best" is one's own personal opinion.
09:18 < Equalizer44> My friend says he has performance issues with modern games on linux
09:18 < jcarpenter2> i vote for firefox or chromium
09:18 < Psi-Jack> jcarpenter2: Veto'd
09:18 < Psi-Jack> You're out.
09:18 < Psi-Jack> :)
09:18 < Equalizer44> i told him linux is only meant for programmers
09:18 < Equalizer44> is that true
09:18 < jcarpenter2> are neither of those on the ballot?
09:18 < Psi-Jack> Equalizer44: No
09:18 < sauvin> Exaxctly. With me, the problem statement is bolder: I believe most individual users are capable of making these kinds of determinations for themselves. From a consensus of such individuals, stronger positions can be held.
09:18 < t0mato> Equalizer44: my mom uses Linux
09:18  * jcarpenter2 writes in "firefox"
09:19 < Psi-Jack> jcarpenter2: Well, if you like constantly vulnerable browsers.... ;)
09:19 < sauvin> Equalizer44, I've been using Linux exclusively for over fifteen years and haven't written a single line of code for anybody but myself in all that time.
09:19 < Psi-Jack> 2018 pwn2own, more Zero-day vulnerabilities in Firefox Quantum
09:19 < nuka-cola_> not sure if thats trolling or not, but ubuntu and related flavours are perfectly fine for an average user.
09:19 < jimm> Equalizer44, it's true that linux very capably supports programmers and programming... but that's not its only trick
09:19 < jcarpenter2> what would you choose?
09:19 < Equalizer44> sauvin why does he have low FPS when gaming on ubuntu
09:19 < Psi-Jack> jcarpenter2: Chrome is what I use.
09:20 < sauvin> That, I can't answer. I'm not a gamer.
09:20 < jcarpenter2> Chrome?
09:20 < t0mato> Equalizer44: probably bad drivers, has he tried proprietary ones?
09:20 < Psi-Jack> jcarpenter2: Actual Chrome, yes.
09:20 < jcarpenter2> on Linux?
09:20 < Equalizer44> probably not
09:20 < Psi-Jack> Of course.
09:20 < jcarpenter2> i wasn't aware Chrome had a linux port
09:20 < Psi-Jack> Of course they dio.
09:20 < Equalizer44> Does linux have problems with nVidia.
09:20 < Psi-Jack> do*
09:20 < Psi-Jack> Equalizer44: Yes/No
09:20 < t0mato> Equalizer44: other way around
09:20 < jcarpenter2> well, they didn't for a long time
09:20 < jcarpenter2> it was just chromium
09:20 < Psi-Jack> jcarpenter2: They've had Chrome for Linux longer than Chromium's been around.
09:21 < Equalizer44> I have a gtx 1080 does that mean I cant get the most out of it on linux
09:21 < nuka-cola_> dont use chrome lol its botnet
09:21 < t0mato> Equalizer44: depends what you wanna use it for
09:21 < Equalizer44> 4K gaming
09:21 < Psi-Jack> nuka-cola_: And Google is 100% evil, with Google Project Zero, Retpoline, etc?
09:21 < nuka-cola_> Equalizer44: you wont get same performance in games as on windows thats for sure
09:21 < t0mato> probably better off on Windows, not sure though
09:21 < nuka-cola_> Psi-Jack: thats right :)
09:21 < Equalizer44> Will this ever change. I dont want windows anymore.
09:22 < Psi-Jack> nuka-cola_: Don't forget the SMACK DOWN they gave to Symantec.
09:22 < t0mato> Equalizer44: maybe
09:22 < Psi-Jack> nuka-cola_: That, and 3 years straight, nobody's broken Chrome in pwn2own.
09:22 < Psi-Jack> Nobody.
09:22 < Equalizer44> Ok
09:23 < Equalizer44> Is IRC something like HTTP
09:23 < Psi-Jack> No
09:23 < Equalizer44> I read a wikipedia page and it said protocol
09:23 < Psi-Jack> Also, games, you can often times get BETTER performance than in Windows.
09:24 < sauvin> There was a time that you just weren't going to get the same performance gaming on Windows as you would on DOS.
09:24 < Equalizer44> That is the only plus of windows over linux
09:24 < nuka-cola_> Psi-Jack: i actually didnt know that. well hats off to google then
09:25 < Psi-Jack> nuka-cola_: Google Project Zero is extremely verbal of issues they've found, amongst other aspects of Google when it comes to Chrome, privacy and security.
09:25 < Psi-Jack> You don't get 3 years with zero vulnerabilities for nothing. Edge, Firefox, Safari, all have had vulnerabilities every single pwn2own event.
09:26 < nuka-cola_> Psi-Jack: Well I'm no security expert , still they have the same business model as facebook. not sure if i can trust them :)
09:26 < Psi-Jack> It's a pitty that 2017, the US had to fudge up some things and arrest a foreigner after the event. The Chinese now won't come to the US for things like pwn2own.
09:27 < Psi-Jack> nuka-cola_: No, they have a much different business model than facebook.
09:29 < nuka-cola_> Psi-Jack: how so? last time i checked they rely on targeting ads
09:29 < Psi-Jack> Dude. They make Android.
09:29 < Psi-Jack> They have the Google Play Store.
09:29 < Psi-Jack> They sell hardware.
09:30 < nuka-cola_> Psi-Jack: almost 70% of their revenue for 2017 came from adverts
09:30 < jimm> back in a few mins... unhosing irc colors :)
09:30 < nuka-cola_> 67.39 b $ out of 109.65 b $
09:31 < Psi-Jack> Sure, they make money with advertising too. They are a search engine afterall.
09:32 < Psi-Jack> But unlike Facebook. They don't make apps for your mobile pocket computer that collects all your private SMS messages relaying them back to their HQ like Facebook has done for years.
09:33 < Psi-Jack> What's worse? Equifax, or Google? ;)
09:34 < nuka-cola_> well i can agree to that. facebook is the worst. however last octover it was revealed that android collect geocolation information about users even if location services are disabled. who knows what else they collect lol.
09:36 < Psi-Jack> nuka-cola_: Google also knows where you spend a lot of your money, but they also do so with a secured manner to collect such information so that they don't leak more personal bits of information. Forget what it was, but they use signing technique that is fully encrypted, but non-leaking, so that relevant purchases can be tracked for marketting, without your personal information being leaked specifically.
09:37 < Psi-Jack> Annnnd, on that note. It's well past my sleepy time.
09:38 < nuka-cola_> had to check this equifax, didnt know what that is.  consumer credit reporting agency doesnt sound too compelling
09:38 < Psi-Jack> nuka-cola_: heh. Yeah, it's American. Basically, they are 100% data miners.
09:38 < Psi-Jack> 0.001% analytics.
09:39 < Psi-Jack> Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian, /those/ are worse than even Facebook.
09:39 < nuka-cola_> it was always bonkers to me , that if yanks dont take credit they arent trustworthy. its like system forces you to be in debt
09:40 < Psi-Jack> Americans don't tend to like to be called "yanks"
09:40 < ayecee> i don't think that's what equifax is measuring
09:40 < nuka-cola_> that was just a digression
09:40 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: It actually is. :)
09:40 < ayecee> also you don't have to be in debt because you have credit
09:41  * Psi-Jack sleeps.
09:42 < t0mato> nuka-cola_: I think the system gives you a higher score if you've paid back previous credits in full
09:43 < t0mato> so that a company can see "hey, this guy usually pays back the money he borrows" before giving you a couple thousand grand
09:43 < t0mato> or "hey, this guy usually doesn't pay back the money on time, so let's completely screw him over with high fees"
09:44 < ayecee> "if you loan money to this guy, you better make it worth your while
09:44 < nuka-cola_> t0mato: yeah, thats what i heard about a FICO score. I understand that point of view, but on the other hand if a person manages well and didnt need any debt. the way i hear it, one can be denied a mortgage because he didnt take any loan etc
09:44 < t0mato> nuka-cola_: yeah, that's why people recommend getting a credit card at an early age, and using it even for small purchases
09:44 < t0mato> sucks if you didn't do that though
09:44 < trae32566[w]> nuka-cola_: if they didn't need debt prior, why would they then? I would expect them to be paying it outright if everything else was
09:45 < t0mato> trae32566[w]: big difference between spending 5g on a new tv, and spending 250g on a new house
09:45 < trae32566[w]> it's fair, I wouldn't loan money to you because I don't know you. They just can't get to know you, so ...
09:45 < trae32566[w]> well, 'know' as in gather financial information and assess risk.
09:46 < nuka-cola_> yeah ok so you have to take a credit card, and use it for small purchases, and you need to pay interest on it i guess, just so you wont be denied a mortgage later on. thats why i said system seems to be forcing you into debt
09:46 < nuka-cola_> sorry for bad english not a native speaker
09:46 < trae32566[w]> t0mato: also there are laws against that, it's one of the reasons for *many* economic collapses
09:46 < t0mato> honestly I feel like taking previous credits in account is the "fairest" way to determine a score
09:46 < ayecee> you don't need to pay interest on it.
09:46 < t0mato> it's better than the system China has, where /everything/ you do counts into your social score
09:46 < ayecee> you do need to pay it off.
09:46 < trae32566[w]> nuka-cola_: not at all, you can pay it off each month, you'll still earn credit.
09:46 < nuka-cola_> well here in europe. u usually have to pay some monthly fee for a credit card, plus some interest on the money you spend from credit card
09:46 < trae32566[w]> you can quite literally just funnel money through a credit card
09:47 < trae32566[w]> pay it every month
09:47 < nuka-cola_> ah i see
09:47 < t0mato> nuka-cola_: really depends on your bank
09:48 < trae32566[w]> nuka-cola_: American Express is very picky about certain cards being paid off every month
09:48 < nuka-cola_> t0mato: yeah that china surveilance/social score its orwell coming to real life
09:48 < sauvin> I also notice lots of places don't take American Express anymore.
09:48 < nuka-cola_> trae32566: i see, the only time i saw american express is when my brother was sent on a work related trip to US
09:51 < zyweo> which tool can be used to see Nonpaged Pool memory and paged Pool memory,
09:51 < zyweo> RAM
09:52 < t0mato> free
09:52 < zyweo> recently, got interested in RamMap on the windows,,
09:52 < zyweo> t0mato: on the /proc file
09:53 < zyweo> cat /proc/mem/nonpaged
09:57 < zyweo> t0mato: i didn't observe the Nonpaged memory and paged memory until recently, i am just an amateur programmer,
10:07 < amosbird> Hi, how can I get "perf stats" output from "perf report"  ?
10:12 < earendel> hi. i have vhd disk image with linux installed i used to load in vbox. can i somehow use this image to boot from it outside the vm?
10:13 < t0mato> earendel: yeah, you should be able to convert the vhd to a raw image and then write that to a hdd
10:13 < earendel> t0mato: sounds good. how would i convert it to a raw image?
10:14 < t0mato> earendel: "qemu-img convert -f vpc -O raw something.vhd something.raw
10:14 < t0mato> at least according to some stackoverflow thread I found on Google
10:14 < earendel> t0mato: awesome. i'll check this. thanks in advance.
10:14 < t0mato> no prob
10:19 < sauvin> earendel, the thing to beware of when doing that is that if you succeed in chucking that image onto something mountable and bootable, you may still run into device driver troubles.
10:22 < juslintek> Hi, how do you create a Host in config which connects to Host on remote machine, so when I type ssh remote_pbc, I skip through the middleman and connect to internal network. There is ProxyCommand, but in it when I specify path to identity file I guess it uses one on my machine then on the middleman machine.
10:22 < Ben64> what
10:23 < sauvin> yeah... "huh!?"
10:23 < juslintek> Ssh I want to create on ssh config profile which connects to remote_machine and in there connects to local_machine inside its network?
10:23 < earendel> sauvin: well i guess i will notice if it fails. btw.. can i eventually even use some bootloader to boot from the raw image without extracting it to hdd? this would of course be luxurious :)
10:24 < juslintek> Me -> Remote -> Local on Remote
10:24 < sauvin> earendel, I can't answer that question because I've never tried, or even looked into it.
10:24 < sauvin> juslintek, "local on remote"?
10:24 < juslintek> Me -> Remote (its .ssh/config profile1) -> profile1
10:24 < earendel> oh yeah. i ask into the channel. if somebody tried this at home without a stunt license, plz ping me.
10:25 < sauvin> It's not a problem that you ask this in the channel, and not a problem if anybody answers in the channel.
10:25 < earendel> welly well.
10:26 < juslintek> Me (.ssh/config remote1) -> remote1 (.ssh/config profile1) -> profile1. How to do this?
10:26 < t0mato> earendel: would really surprise me if you couldn't considering that grub can boot isos
10:26 < Ben64> juslintek: ssh -t foo ssh bar
10:26 < jhodrien> juslintek: So JumpHost type fun.
10:26 < t0mato> Ben64: that would require the auth key for bar to be on the jumpbox
10:26 < Ben64> correct
10:26 < luke-jr> juslintek: ssh profile1 -J remote1
10:26 < earendel> t0mato: well it can boot isos, but i have the vhd thingy. can i convert it into iso?
10:27 < jhodrien> t0mato: Can't you just use agent forwarding?
10:27 < luke-jr> jhodrien: sounds like a security risk
10:27 < jhodrien> Or GSSAPI, depending.
10:27 < t0mato> earendel: I honestly have no idea, I've never done that
10:27 < luke-jr> jhodrien: why not just -J ?
10:27 < juslintek> Luke-jr, okay I will want to rsync files to that profile1, So I need it ready in config file, so I'll look up JumpHost
10:27 < earendel> t0mato: cool. i appreciate that.
10:27 < jhodrien> -J on new versions of ssh, not on older.
10:28 < jhodrien> You can do it with ProxyCommand.
10:28 < luke-jr> juslintek: yeah, it's pretty simple
10:28 < juslintek> Luke-jr, will rsync work with -J?
10:28 < jhodrien> If it doesn't, just setup a tunnel and have rsync use that?
10:28 < luke-jr> juslintek: no, you'll need to put it in the .ssh/config - it's called ProxyJump there
10:29 < juslintek> Luke-jr, okay I've tried with ProxyCommand, but with no luck.
10:29 < juslintek> Seems like it tries to pick up id_rsa, on "me" machine
10:29 < jhodrien> Something like: ProxyCommand ssh jumphost exec nc %h 22
10:29 < juslintek> Instead of remte1 machine
10:30 < luke-jr> jhodrien: right
10:30 < luke-jr> juslintek: see what jhodrien said if your ssh is too old for ProxyJump
10:30 < juslintek> Luke-jr, its latests, its all on parallax currently
10:32 < juslintek> Luke-jr, problem is ProxyJump, cannot identify profile1
10:33 < jhodrien> I don't quite understand why that should be a problem.
10:33 < luke-jr> it shouldn't be..
10:33 < luke-jr> Host profile1 \n \t ProxyJump remote1
10:33 < luke-jr> ssh profile1
10:33 < jhodrien> I still use the legacy ProxyCommand route, but can happily ssh to hosts that the initial node can't DNS resolve.
10:33 < luke-jr> jhodrien: should be able to with ProxyJump as well
10:35 < juslintek> Jhodrien, when I type in .ssh/config on my host ProxyJump and enter profile1, which is only created on remote1 and not "me", then it says ssh: Could not resolve hostname profile1: nodename nor servname provided, or not known
10:35 < juslintek> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
10:36 < luke-jr> juslintek: that's backward. Host profile1 \n ProxyJump remote1
10:40 < juslintek> Luke-jr, here is my scenario: https://paste.ofcode.org/CwighqzABf9MEAx9iBKhT5
10:43 < juslintek> How to make my scenario work?
10:43 < jhodrien> I think you've got your hosts tangled.
10:43 < jhodrien> Is it local -> remote -> profile1 ?
10:43 < juslintek> Jhodrien yes
10:44 < jhodrien> Then on local machine, you want Host profile1 with ProxyJump set to foo@remote1
10:44 < jhodrien> I think you're missing how this works.
10:44 < jhodrien> When you match the Host condition, those things are set.
10:45 < juslintek> Basically, I called local machine ME, remote machine remote1, it has Jenkins and profile1 is staging machine. But I want to rsync files to staging machine, without having remote1 machine profiles and identity keys locally.
10:45 < jhodrien> So when you try to ssh to an unreachable host (profile1) it knows it needs to go via a jumphost.
10:45 < xdije> hi
10:45 < xdije> is it possible to install old libraries for an old application
10:46 < t0mato> xdije: yeah
10:46 < jhodrien> xdije: Yes.
10:46 < xdije> i've old application that required some old libs so i just did a link from the new one to the old libname
10:46 < juslintek> Jhodrien, but I do not want to store identity file on machine "ME"
10:46 < jhodrien> juslintek: I didn't say you had to.
10:48 < xdije> but now it asks for mor liek libstdc++.so.5 i linked this to .so.6 and the error is changed and says libsrdc++.so.5 version CXXABI_1.2 not found and GLIBCPP_3.2 not found
10:48 < jhodrien> xdije: Symlinking isn't the same as providing an old library.
10:48 < juslintek> Jhodrien, so how it should look like practically? Because I'm confused and do not know what to type into my profile. And can't find any examples that match my scenario. Or the ones that look like they match actually do not work.
10:48 < t0mato> xdije: you might want to /actually/ use the old libraries, instead of linking the old ones to the new ones
10:48 < t0mato> because it seems like whatever the program wants is no longer provided on new versions of the library
10:49 < xdije> how can i install old libraries
10:49 < xdije> should i just find them and drop them in the /usr/lib64
10:49 < luke-jr> xdije: usually you want to just recompile the application
10:49 < luke-jr> old versions have security issues often
10:50 < luke-jr> if you really must run them, I'd use a different user (maybe in a VM) and put all the old libraries in one directory, and launch with LD_LIBRARY_PATH
10:50 < jhodrien> If recompiling isn't an option, I'd put this sort of compat library in a dedicated directory just for this application, then use LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point at it.  Makes it a lot easier for testing as well.
10:51 < xdije> where can i find old libraries
10:54 < jhodrien> That's a rather open ended question.
10:54 < lovingninetails> xdije, What distro?
10:54 < xdije> centos7
10:54 < sauvin> More to the point: for what purpose, exactly?
10:54 < t0mato> all libs in centos are old ;)
10:55 < xdije> but it looks like i need older version
10:55 < t0mato> of what library, and for what program?
10:57 < xdije> the program is called xlsbatch, it is monitoring tool for old LSF queuing system jobs
10:58 < sauvin> What's LSF?
10:58 < jhodrien> A queuing system.  Surely you can get the source for that?
10:59 < sauvin> Don't call him Shirley.
10:59 < luke-jr> ouch, it's a Motif GUI app
10:59 < luke-jr> that's probably like 90s?
10:59 < sauvin> he DID say *old*.
11:00 < xdije> LSF is old platform queuing system which is now known as IBM LSF
11:00 < jhodrien> Aww, don't beat up on Motif.
11:00 < luke-jr> that's not old. It's ancient
11:00 < xdije> yes it is
11:00 < luke-jr> my new CPU is made by IBM. maybe they have a new LSF too?
11:04 < t0mato> IBM still makes CPUs?
11:05 < trae32566[w]> yes.
11:05 < trae32566[w]> Power ...
11:05 < peetaur2> luke-jr: is that power9?
11:06 < trae32566[w]> no, not out yet.
11:06 < peetaur2> whether it's out or not, some people can get them... like phoronix has one that they tested here https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=power9-epyc-xeon&num=2
11:09 < sponge`> Hello
11:10 < sponge`> I'm looking to buy a new desktop pc (build it myself). Is there a good website, where I can browse and look for hardware that is linux compatible?
11:11 < jimm> start with motherboard and cpu
11:11 < Avatar> not all computers are linux compitable?
11:11 < peetaur2> sponge`: mostly it's just wifi that tends to be incompatible without binary blobs and buggy 3rd party drivers
11:11 < jimm> how much ram dop you want?
11:12 < sponge`> I'm looking for a mobo that already has wifi chip in it.
11:12 < luke-jr> peetaur2: yes
11:12 < sponge`> ram 16
11:12 < peetaur2> and there are some other compatibility related things...like AMD ryzen CPUs need a kernel somewhere around 4.9 or newer
11:12 < luke-jr> trae32566[w]: my POWER9s arrived a week ago
11:13 < jimm> curious... for a desktop, what has you want a wireless?
11:13 < luke-jr> trae32566[w]: although I only got the motherboard + CPUs "raw"; I don't know if any pre-assembled have shipped yet
11:13 < peetaur2> luke-jr: do you plan on customizing firmware or hardware? Why did you choose a power9?
11:13 < luke-jr> peetaur2: I don't want NSA/Intel/AMD backdoors
11:14 < sponge`> jimm: Because the desktop is in one room, and the router is in another room.
11:14 < peetaur2> I looked them up and found them overly expensive if you don't have such needs or extreme security
11:14 < luke-jr> peetaur2: I'm a Bitcoin developer, so extreme security is expected of me (not to mention necessary to keep my funds safe)
11:15 < jimm> ok
11:15 < trae32566[w]> that ... that's not how that works.
11:15 < trae32566[w]> I would already be concerned.
11:15 < sponge`> Is there a site that lists all mobo and cpu that linux supports?
11:15 < trae32566[w]> you do realize how ****ed you are if you ever need to change platforms, right?
11:15 < jimm> howbout get the motherboard without a wireless, and get an atheros?
11:15 < peetaur2> it is actually how it works, but it is considered infeasible for most people
11:15 < luke-jr> trae32566[w]: Not sure what you mean by that.
11:16 < trae32566[w]> I mean yes, those vulnerabilities are not there, but think of how few people have tested Power in comparison
11:16 < peetaur2> proprietary firmware and hardware has no purpose other than the false claim of hiding secrets from people with so much resources that it's pointless and the ability to have backdoors
11:17 < luke-jr> trae32566[w]: the software is all the same..
11:17 < luke-jr> I'm even using a little-endian signed-char ABI to be as close to x86 as possible
11:18 < sponge`> jimm: I don't mind doing so. I just assumed that it would be easier to find a mobo that has wifi and supports linux. Qualcomm Atheros card- All of them have linux support?
11:18 < luke-jr> sponge`: better to get wifi on a PCI-e card IMO
11:18 < peetaur2> even though his new platform is far less tested, it at least has more potential, can be audited properly, etc. and while the less tested problem is fading away, you also get some security through obscurity also fading away... seems like a good bet to me
11:19 < jimm> last I checked, ateroses are great as far as linux support
11:19 < peetaur2> is there no change in software at all, like not even rebuilding the kernel?
11:19 < xdije> i found it
11:19 < luke-jr> peetaur2: everything has to be compiled for POWER, of course, but it's the same code
11:19 < xdije> the package compat-libsrdc++-33 was the one
11:20 < sponge`> jimm: Do they have open source drivers or only blobs?
11:20 < luke-jr> I suppose the kernel has some code differences due to the new POWER9 hardware, but that's true of any x86 system too
11:20 < peetaur2> luke-jr: and it's not like ARM where you could make the same claim, except some portion of software fails to compile?
11:20 < luke-jr> peetaur2: some small portion of software is garbage that won't compile on non-x86, but meh
11:21 < luke-jr> those are the same programs likely to have security issues anyway
11:21 < peetaur2> what have you run into so far that doesn't compile?
11:21 < luke-jr> I suppose there's also JIT stuff like Chromium, but that's again a security issue
11:21 < luke-jr> peetaur2: ltrace
11:21 < luke-jr> which I honestly never use anyway
11:21 < peetaur2> yeah JIT is a dreadful concept security wise... so for things like that, I at least don't run them without apparmor
11:22 < luke-jr> alsa-tools had a problem when I was doing unsigned char, but it was fixed in a newer version anyway
11:22 < sponge`> Where can I start looking for mobo and cpu? Is there a site that lists linux supported hardware? preferably recent/current hardware
11:23 < jhodrien> sponge`: To be honest, I'd work backwards from that these days.
11:23 < luke-jr> autoconf archive's AX_BOOST_BASE macro had a PPC regression about 9 months ago; I submitted a fix upstream
11:23 < jhodrien> Almost everything is supported, so why not find the machine you want then check if there are likely to be any issues with the hardware?
11:24 < sponge`> jhodrien: Because then I can only find a proof that something doesn't work and not a proof that it's working flawlessly
11:24 < luke-jr> peetaur2: oh, Eigen is insane and breaks OpenCL builds.. trivial to workaround for now
11:24 < peetaur2> sponge`: probably any CPU and mobo you look up will work.  (but I wouldn't buy ASUS)
11:25 < luke-jr> PCI-e passthrough in qemu doesn't seem to work with x86-64 guests for some reason - someone with Raptor is looking into that I hope
11:25 < peetaur2> but works with raptor guests? (I wonder... does windows run on it?)
11:25 < luke-jr> Not sure, didn't try that.
11:25 < luke-jr> biggest problem so far was my Radeon HD 6870
11:26 < luke-jr> it wouldn't work until I hacked the firmware to disable the onboard VGA
11:26 < peetaur2> what did it do before that hack?
11:26 < luke-jr> just nothing came out the DVI ports
11:26 < jhodrien> sponge`: I seriously think you're making work for yourself.  I get little choice over what desktops are bought here, but rarely have issues (even with ASUS ;)
11:26 < luke-jr> and then X started crashing
11:26 < luke-jr> might be a software issue, but I don't have VGA cables anyway
11:27 < peetaur2> I have a HD 6770 which is the least troublesome of any... and the most trouble I had is that my current GA-AX-370-Gaming 5 doesn't work with the 3rd gpu slot except with that old 6700
11:27 < peetaur2> 6770
11:27 < peetaur2> for vfio-pci gpu passthrough
11:27 < sponge`> peetaur2: You wouldn't buy asus? I got the impression that their mobos have good linux support.
11:27 < luke-jr> I'm actually running it on a 5850 at the moment
11:28 < sponge`> jhodrien: I don't think I'll be capable of hacking the hardware to get things done. That's why I want something pretty safe.
11:29 < luke-jr> sponge`: it's not usually the CPU/motherboard that are the issue; more likely the video card, wifi, etc
11:29 < jhodrien> We've had firmware issues with some ASUS boards, but nothing show stopping.
11:29 < peetaur2> sponge`: not sure about today, but in the past they had a bad reputation saying things like "to fix that, install windows" when you proved to them that they didn't really implement something they claimed to, and so it doesn't work when you actually use it, and windows only works because it doesn't try to use such a feature....for example vt-d in the ASUS p6t-deluxe
11:29 < jhodrien> But say you buy a normal chipset mobo, say with Intel CPU and onboard graphics, you're going to have zero issues.
11:30 < jhodrien> peetaur2: We've had them hang on boot after a while for no identifiable reason, fixed by opening the case and clearing the CMOS.
11:30 < trae32566[w]> yeah, they have no linux support officially
11:30 < peetaur2> sponge`: on that particular board they even commit fraud basically by saying the manual saying it supports vt-x and vt-d had a typo and it meant to say vt-x where it says vt-d (which would be then 2 times)
11:30 < trae32566[w]> then again, what non-enterprise mobo manufacturer does?
11:30 < trae32566[w]> I use an ASUS board with Fedora, works fine.
11:30 < luke-jr> peetaur2: once, I used an ASRock motherboard since they were the only ones with working VT-d for Sandy Bridge (or maybe it was Haswell?) at the time
11:30 < jhodrien> Then there's linux support and linux support.  Dell offered Ubuntu on a limited set of models.
11:32 < jhodrien> I have more problems with laptops than desktops.  wifi/bluetooth chipset support, and thinks like optimus graphics fun.
11:33 < sauvin> ACPI problems, too.
11:33 < sponge`> Is it smart to buy intel cpu after they decided not to patch their recent bugs and only fix new hardware?
11:33 < trae32566[w]> ...?
11:33 < trae32566[w]> they're patching like 7 years back
11:33 < trae32566[w]> what more do you want?
11:33 < Disconsented> 10 years
11:34 < sponge`> Oh, really? I thought they said that they will only patch 1-2 generations back
11:34 < jhodrien> Ah, careful.
11:34 < JimBuntu> 25 years
11:34 < peetaur2> if I picked an arbitrary number, I'd say 10 is ideal
11:34 < trae32566[w]> if you're running a 10 year old server and you really need that fix, you can go forth and multiply, or buy a new server
11:34 < jhodrien> Last time they said that, it missed things we'd got still in warranty.
11:34 < jhodrien> As it was about the release date of the CPU, and some of their CPUs had long shelf lives.
11:34 < luke-jr> last I heard, Intel doesn't even plan to fix new hardware..
11:34 < peetaur2> mostly nobody should still use even a 5 year old machine, but some percentage do for good reasons, like there is just no reason that it's inadequate yet
11:34 < trae32566[w]> it covers pretty much everything we have, so that's kinda shocking...
11:35 < trae32566[w]> luke-jr: not sure where you get your info then, because they are... for several generations back, last I heard everything including SB and up gets it
11:35 < peetaur2> luke-jr: if that was true, it sounds suspicious... or did they just say they won't fix what the OS can work around?
11:36 < luke-jr> peetaur2: they were submitting kernel patches to Linus implying they didn't plan to fix Spectre; he called them out on it, and I haven't read any updates since
11:36 < JimBuntu> no peetaur2 They have decided not to fix a number of CPUs that will not have an OS workaround. It's simply non financially economical.
11:36 < trae32566[w]> well yeah, the ones that are literally 10+ years old
11:37 < jhodrien> Where's the list of which ones they actually do provide?
11:37 < JimBuntu> jhodrien, I don't have the URL handy
11:37 < peetaur2> is this the one? https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/1/21/192
11:39 < trae32566[w]> https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2018/03/microcode-update-guidance.pdf
11:39 < trae32566[w]> fixes go back to sandybridge, which  is a 7 year old (I was right) architecture.
11:40 < trae32566[w]> really anything past that shouldn't even be running something important ... I mean come on, seriously? Do you want an update for the 80486 too?
11:40 < trae32566[w]> not that it used speculative execution, but still.
11:43 < jhodrien> They've definitely moved the bar on a fair way with this last set of updates.
11:43 < hft> hi all!
11:52 < djph> trae32566[w]: except we're not in the 1990s anymore when a 2 year old PC was a dinosaur ...
11:53 < trae32566[w]> that depends on the field
11:53 < trae32566[w]> for home use, maybe, but how many home users will even know or care? For enterprise, you must be running a janky-ass business to be on something that old
11:54 < trae32566[w]> you'd probably be better off with a basic desktop
11:55 < djph> well,yeah, most businesses are 3-5 year cycles (except "not-for-profit" .. but those fall into "janky-ass business").  Small businesses may also be running old (5-7, maybe older) ... but then when your "computer guy" is "someones nephew who comes in once during summer holidays ... "
11:56 < trae32566[w]> when that's the case, they won't have heard of or know what spectre or meltdown is, other than a spooky ghost and something ice cream does when it gets hot.
11:56 < trae32566[w]> better yet, something a nuclear reactor does when people disable the safety systems :D
11:56 < djph> true :)
11:57 < djph> .. most said janky-ass businesses should be near said reactor
11:57 < trae32566[w]> even my last admittedly janky-as-hell workplace used sandybridge
11:57 < TwistedFate> hello, can i preload multiple libs at once?
11:58 < trae32566[w]> which is saying something, because they were *cheap*
11:59 < TwistedFate> with LD_PRELOAD that is
12:05 < JimBuntu> trae32566[w], I have seen elevator systems that were still being controlled by Pentium IIIs and ATMs that were basically no better. Luckily, these aren't systems that should be on the internet to begin with.
12:06 < trae32566[w]> oh absolutely
12:06 < trae32566[w]> and most medical equipment
12:06 < trae32566[w]> and most digital signs, and kiosks, and drive through screens, and fast food ordering systems ...
12:06 < trae32566[w]> oh oh, and don't forget switches and routers :)
12:07 < trae32566[w]> well, some of them.
12:07 < JimBuntu> I haven't seen an x86 based switch/router in a long long time, not since the 90s
12:10 < trae32566[w]> you do realize that almost, if not all, Cisco and Arista products are x86...right?
12:11 < trae32566[w]> usually older intel, though apparently Arista used AMD
12:13 < trae32566[w]> JimBuntu: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/61Xr0dfuXkqt8bApK7P1wA
12:13 < JimBuntu> trae32566[w], maybe the bigger stuff is, I haven't seen anything bigger than a 24 port IRL in quite a while. The 24 port was not x86
12:14 < trae32566[w]> ^ 52 port DCS 7050S
12:19 < trae32566[w]> they also use a lot of normal hardware
12:20 < trae32566[w]> for example that switch actually has an unused SATA data and power cable, an unused PCIe slot, and a USB DOM as the storage.
12:20 < trae32566[w]> which is interesting, because they offer neither SATA nor anything using PCIe, and I know for a fact nothing would fit except maybe a ribbon cable, so...
12:21 < JimBuntu> Is it an OTS motherboard?
12:24 < trae32566[w]> nope
12:25 < trae32566[w]> completely custom, says Arista all over it, has switch chips and whatnot
12:25 < trae32566[w]> hilarious really, it makes me wonder if there's some absurd design rule that required it
12:25 < trae32566[w]> there are also additional headers for various things, though I don't remember any specifically
12:26 < JimBuntu> It's odd that they would spend the time, effort & money to include such interfaces if they had no intent to use them. I'm guessing it was already part of the reference design and was easier to leave in OR they did intend to use it (perhaps on a different model) or did use it at some point.
12:26 < trae32566[w]> probably
12:26 < trae32566[w]> it's a chassis-specific mobo though, with proprietary daughterboards
12:26 < trae32566[w]> so it's definitely specific to them
12:27 < trae32566[w]> (and fan module slots and stuff which connect to it)
12:28 < JimBuntu> I would wonder if the additional interfaces are functional. I have seen where something was bodged, better to sell the equipment with some non-functional parts than to scrap them.
12:30 < alexandre9099> hi, would a windows enteprise style network be possible to replicate easily with linux? (Network logon and restrictions for settings)
12:30 < alexandre9099> (with linux clients and server)
12:31 < jimm> I would imagine that depends on what restrictions you want to make
12:31 < alexandre9099> well, with similar level of access managment that windows has (being possible to limit almost every aspect of the system)
12:33 < TJ-> alexandre9099: Samba can be used an Active Directory server
12:33 < alexandre9099> TJ-, i know that, but i would like linux clients :)
12:34 < jhodrien> Linux clients are perfectly happy point at AD, samba or otherwise.
12:34 < jhodrien> But it doesn't get you everything a windows client pointed at AD gets.
12:34 < jhodrien> You want complete and rich group policies applied to linux machines I assume.
12:34 < ttyX> is there any option to skip syn stealth scan in nmap?
12:34 < ttyX> it takes a lot of time
12:34 < alexandre9099> jhodrien, yep, that
12:34 < ttyX> I'm just running a script
12:35 < TJ-> alexandre9099: use sssd and the sssd-ad backend
12:35 < alexandre9099> ttyX, how are you running nmap, sometimes if nmap gets stuck it just means that the server is saying "stop"
12:35 < alexandre9099> TJ-, i'll check
12:36 < jhodrien> https://docs.pagure.org/SSSD.sssd/design_pages/active_directory_gpo_integration.html
12:36 < jhodrien> It gets you a good part of what you want.
12:36 < alexandre9099> thanks a lot TJ- and jhodrien
12:36 < ttyX> alexandre9099, cli as root
12:36 < ananke> ttyX: uhmm, and how did you execute nmap? it has tons of different scan modes
12:36 < alexandre9099> ttyX, well, with which arguments
12:37 < limbo> ttyX: look for /-sS in the nmap manual, if you do not specify some other scan type (-sT, -sU, etc) it defaults to tcp syn scan
12:39 < ttyX> ok let me try
12:40 < limbo> ttyX: but you probably want to read through the man page in general, because tcp syn is a relatively fast scan
12:40 < ttyX> limbo, I also think there's some other issue, it usually isn't that slow
13:01 < gggnnn> hey guys
13:02 < jimm> hi
13:03 < Pentode> hi
13:05 < what_if> I need a laptop whose only job is to play videos in VLC (has to be VLC). Am being told Mint would be best, as I want all codecs to just work. Would this be the best distro for me?
13:08 < FreeFull> what_if: I'm not 100% sure, but I think VLC comes with all codecs that it supports already
13:10 < jimm> mint would work, so would debian
13:10 < oerheks> * all codecs except dvd playback
13:10 < JimBuntu> what_if, I don't understand why Mint would be best, but it should get the job done.
13:10 < jimm> so would most other dists (and all other dists where you build vlc from source)
13:11 < azarus> doubt a lot of dists require you to build vlc from sources
13:12 < jimm> I'm just saying that all dists should have a compiler and associated tools, and therefore allow you to build it
13:12 < azarus> Ah, suppose so.
13:13 < azarus> (doubt that's practical for a user like what_if though)
13:13 < jimm> I'd still say most dists that distribute binary packages would have one for vlc
13:13 < djph> jimm: yeah, they don't include them as a base install though
13:13 < jimm> true enough
13:14 < dgurney> even stricter distros like fedora will have vlc available in the rpmfusion repo
13:14 < what_if> Was looking at Mint because its a media player. Needs to play just about everything in existence including DVD, Windows Media, Blu_ray, etc.  Getting that all working in Debian has been a pain for me
13:15  * azarus dances the proprietary codec dance
13:15 < jimm> well mint is a lot more than a media player (potentially) and probably has the same packages debian has
13:16 < what_if> jimm: thats another selling point. anything based on debian is familiar to me
13:16 < jimm> yeah, mint is debian-based
13:16 < azarus> *ubuntu based
13:17 < azarus> debian and ubuntu*
13:17 < azarus> argh.
13:17 < jimm> yep
13:18 < jimm> I don't really trust ubuntu that much, their oversight company has done a few untrustworthy things
13:18 < what_if> based on ubuntu? guess I wont be updating much
13:19 < jimm> right, which in turn is based on debian
13:46 < TheWild> hello
13:47 < SkunkyFone> TheWild: jello
13:51 < TheWild> my script (.php in my case) runs other process, leaves it running in the background, then exists.
13:51 < TheWild> How I am supposed to check on next script run that the process is running at PID I got from previous script is exactly the same process that was ran by previous script.
13:52 < JimBuntu> TheWild, take a hint from how other services handle this by using a .pid file?
13:53 < TheWild> well, hmmm... but I feel having a pid is not enough. 1. The process may crash and not remove the .pid. 2. How I can be sure that under given PID is exactly that process with exactly that session?
13:54 < JimBuntu> TheWild, I'm not sure how you would know it's exactly the same PID. PIDs are not generally re-used until you max out /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max, then they start over. Are you concerned that a re-start could coincidentally use the same PID or are you worried about a bad actor?
13:55 < djph> TheWild: the idea of having a pidfile is -> if it exists then error "hey, running as pid $read_from_pidfile.  If this is wrong, something bad happened, check the logs; then remove /path/to/file.pid and re-run."
13:56 < TheWild> I don't know how exactly Linux kernel assigns pids. I assumed it's first available pid.
13:56 < JimBuntu> first available, in sequence... up to max, start over, repeat
13:57 < peetaur2> it seems like it has a number and just adds 1 until it's unused, and loops around when it's too high
13:57 < peetaur2> and you can set the max much higher, which people seem to think improves performance in some applications (ceph deployments for example)
13:58 < peetaur2> echo $$   says  3374968   :D
13:58 < peetaur2> (or maybe performance is not it, or is a side effect, and it's about running out of pids ...)
13:59 < djph> probably more the whole "running out of PIDs' thing
14:00  * djph doesn't see how pid 33760 vs 9750 vs 3374969 would affect "performance(tm)"
14:00 < JimBuntu> djph, taking this next level... the tiny hit for having to use multiple bytes to store the PID?
14:03 < BluesKaj> Hey folks
14:03 < djph> JimBuntu: but wouldn't that be an argument for keeping PIDs maxxed to 65535 or so?
14:04 < TheWild> true & echo $!
14:04 < TheWild> true & echo $!
14:04 < TheWild> indeed the numbers are consecutive
14:04 < djph> yeah, we told you that already
14:04 < JimBuntu> djph, basically. That was the only thing I could come up with for any performance hit.
14:09 < oiaohm> djph: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysctl/kernel.txt  I guess you would be looking for pid_max 2^22 is the max set able on a 64 bit system.
14:09 < TheWild> I'm not happy about possibility of killing something else that the process I intended to kill. Say, script A runs process B, then A exists. B crashes, it's pid gets reused. A is commanded to shutdown the processes. A kills something else than B.
14:10 < oiaohm> djph: thing with more PID numbers is more items for the scheduler to process
14:10 < oiaohm> djph: and that is why the default is 65535
14:11 < JimBuntu> I thought it was halfish that, 32768
14:11 < peetaur2> djph: maybe if it has to +1 too many times before finding a free one... maybe even failing to find one, could affect performance if something relied on more processes/threads spawning
14:11 < peetaur2> -,
14:12 < JimBuntu> TheWild, then I suspect you will want to interrogate what is running at the PID... even if only checking the process name/etc.
14:12 < oiaohm> JimBuntu: opps your right I forgot I had doubled mine in settings.
14:13 < oiaohm> JimBuntu: kept on doing things that was consuming all the 32768
14:15 < oiaohm> TheWild: with the limited pid space the idea of using containers/cgroups to group processes into related groups and being able to limit pid kill inside a container start showing some major benefits.
14:46 < SopaXorzTaker> I was recently banned from here for shitstorming over RMS's decisions
14:46 < SopaXorzTaker> well, I want to issue an apology. :P
14:57 < paddy|> SopaXorzTaker: how many people were involved?
14:59 < Frit0ss> is there anyone knowledgeable out there with systemd-tmpfiles who could explain something?
14:59 < SopaXorzTaker> paddy|, IDK
14:59 < Sitri> Frit0ss: just ask
15:00 < SopaXorzTaker> but I said "f**k you, my hero" back then
15:00 < Frit0ss> alright - well I have a file at /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/appconfig.conf
15:00 < Frit0ss> looks like: d /opt/app/logs - - - 1d
15:00 < Frit0ss> running: systemd-tmpfiles --clean --remove
15:00 < Frit0ss> but the files in that directory are not getting removed
15:00 < Frit0ss> appears that the above only looks at atime on the file
15:01 < Frit0ss> I guess I'm wondering if that's the only option
15:03 < jimm> something is a compound word, composed of some and thing...
15:19 < JackMa> how can i know program in use now?
15:20 < Sitri> ps?
15:20 < JackMa> thanks
15:20 < Sitri> `ps aux` will list everythinig
15:21 < jimm> programs get loaded into "processes" which is what ps lists
15:24 < JackMa> how can i know ip address of person who chat me?
15:24 < jimm> sometimes you can't
15:25 < JackMa> what you mean?
15:25 < JackMa> JimBuntu:
15:25 < JackMa> jimm:
15:25 < jimm> but, you can try /whois (puit nick here)
15:26 < jimm> me for example, my IP doesn't show (try: /whois jimm)
15:27 < JackMa> thanks :)
15:27 < jimm> rosa slowly flapping
15:30 < jimm> davr0s too
15:31 < jimm> davr0s, what's up with your connection?
15:56 < puff> Good morning.  Still trying to get this HP Laserjet 8150 working.  Figured out the IP address and added it via CUPS, but when I print a PDF to it, nothing happens.
15:57 < random666> Quick question guys: My systemd boot is spending 2 seconds in sound.target. Now, imagine I'm not interested in having sound at all but can't remove the sound card. How can I tell systemd to NOT load this target
15:57 < random666> ?
15:59 < lovingninetails> Hi o/
16:01 < azarus> random666: man systemctl ?
16:02 < Sitri> Having an issue where ldd thinks nearly everything isn't dynamically linked, but `/lib/ld-linux.so --list` works fine.  Any ideas what might be the cause there?  (Both are from the glibc package)
16:02 < Kronnos> random666:  as azarus said... systemctl
16:03 < random666> azarus: I've read a lot before asking here. I have now a rough idea how systemd works yet this sound.target unit is apparently a special one under SYSTEMD.SPECIAL(7)
16:03 < azarus> random666: i am not an expert with systemd, terribly sorry
16:04 < azarus> haven't used it in forever and have never run into that problem
16:05 < random666> Kronnos: azarus: DOC: "This target is started automatically as soon as a sound card is plugged in or becomes available at boot."
16:05  * azarus shrugs it off as systemd weirdness
16:06 < Kronnos> blacklist the sound card driver.
16:06 < random666> Kronnos: how?
16:07 < azarus> random666: modprobe.
16:07 < ayecee> say bad things about it to the press
16:08 < Kronnos> /etc/modporbe.d/blacklist
16:08 < Kronnos> and in the fille add
16:08 < Kronnos> blacklist module_name
16:08 < Kronnos> and it will not load at boot.
16:10 < random666> Kronnos: Thank you. I might do just that. I'll try to get an answer to the systemd in systemd IRC channel that I just noticed it exists
16:22 < the_snug> Why do GNOME applications hate looking the right way? Even with GTK based desktop environments they don't follow a lot of rules
16:22 < ayecee> i imagine the systemd channel as consisting of a big group of people with questions about systemd
16:23 < ayecee> gnome applications hate to be anthropomorphized
16:23 < azarus> big words for a small gnome
16:27 < repys> how can I make CPU usage up to 80-90% by running some tests?
16:28 < repys> I need to test my monitoring system :)
16:28 < ayecee> dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/null
16:28 < ayecee> times the number of cpus you have
16:28 < ayecee> that should do it
16:29 < repys> ayecee: what do you mean by 'times the number of cpus you have'?
16:29 < ayecee> which word is causing you confusion?
16:29 < repys> ayecee: the whole sentence :)
16:29 < ||JD||> repys: check for stress in your package manager
16:30 < repys> should I run dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/null many times as how many cpu cores I have?
16:30 < ayecee> repys: keep trying
16:30 < ayecee> yes
16:30 < repys> oh e.g. 8 cores, I need to run it 8 times?
16:30 < prussian> just spinlock in general
16:30 < repys> :)
16:30 < repys> all right
16:30 < ayecee> that sounds right
16:33 < repys> how could I test the ram instead?
16:33 < repys> I need to fill up the ram up to 80-90%
16:33 < repys> for monitoring testing obviously
16:33 < what_if> repys: firefox
16:33 < ayecee> heh
16:33 < post-factum> lol
16:33 < repys> :D
16:34 < post-factum> use memtester
16:34 < repys> I have centos 7 minimal install
16:34 < what_if> repys: memtest86 is on bootable install CDs like Ubuntu. Tests all the ram
16:34 < RayTracer> repys: you could fill /dev/shm with dd from /dev/zero, and probably mount another shmfs
16:34 < prussian> fallocate -l <x>G /dev/shm/something will be a pretty ez instant way
16:35 < RayTracer> s/shmfs/tmpfs/
16:35 < repys> :)
16:35 < repys> is /dev/shm the RAM?
16:36 < azarus> repys: in fact, the whole kernel is loaded into RAM!
16:36 < RayTracer> it's mounted from ram
16:36 < azarus> Can you believe it?! :O
16:38 < uplime> azarus: no way. next you'll tell me my irc client is loaded into RAM
16:41 < post-factum> unless it is xip'ed/dax'ed
16:53 < cryptic0> Can I pass commandline arguments to diff like this:  diff -yW 150 "cut -f3 file1" "cut -f3 file2" > diff.out
16:55 < RayTracer> cryptic0: no
16:55 < cryptic0> RayTracer Thanks.  Is there no way to automate this process?
16:55 < RayTracer> cryptic0: redirect your cuts to eg. /tmp/{a,b} and diff those
16:56 < cryptic0> RayTracer: So the only thing that will save me from is having to create real files.
16:56 < gronke> if I need to add a path in a batch file, how do I word it? export PATH=/path/to/stuff/:$PATH ?
16:57 < RayTracer> cryptic0: /tmp/{a,b} would be real files
16:57 < RayTracer> but that shouldn't hinder automation
16:57 < cryptic0> RayTracer I see.  I was just being lazy.
16:58 < revel> gronke: They're not called batch files, but yes. Prepending a path means executables in that path take precedence, i.e if you've got rm in /path/to/stuff, it'll get used instead of i.e /bin/rm since /bin is later, and vice versa for prepending it.
16:58 < gronke> revel sorry I meant I have a bash script that needs a path added to it so it can find the program when it runs
16:59 < revel> If the added path doesn't contain any spaces or anything like that, then that should work. I'd do PATH="${PATH}:/path/to/stuff" instead though.
16:59 < gronke> revel so export PATH="${PATH}:/path/to/stuff" ?
17:00 < revel> You can prepend it too if you need stuff in /path/to/stuff to take precedence, but yes.
17:00 < revel> i.e PATH="/path/to/stuff:${PATH}"
17:00 < RayTracer> cryptic0: apparently you could spare one file by using one cut | diff --from-file=- /tmp/b
17:03 < Deusdeorum> how can i kill a specific site running on gunicorn? `ps aux | grep "gunicorn"` will give me all sites, but what if want to kill site `testABC`?
17:03 < MrPockets> What do ya'll use for network documentation? Look'n for something on Linux to create network diagrams, document configs, passwords.
17:07 < RayTracer> Deusdeorum: maybe you can use ps aufxwww and get the site out of the string?
17:09 < Deusdeorum> RayTracer true.. how can I keep header if i do `ps aufxwww | grep "testABC"` to see what PID it is?
17:10 < RayTracer> Deusdeorum: pid is always column 2
17:10 < Deusdeorum> RayTracer Thanks
17:12 < sstory> I cloned a Centos 7.x box. Afterwards I would like to modify fstab the contents look like so: http://pastebin.centos.org/683201/ Can I just uuidgen then tune2fs -U <PUTUIDHERE> /boot ?
17:12 < gronke> so I'm trying to fix some old scripts that run a bunch of different programs, currently when I run one I get this error: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/Gn8qrZWuGSbVccY4ChYY/ But I've added the binaries path, I believe, to the code, so I'm not sure why that's still happening
17:12 < sstory> Also if I change centos_machine1-root to be centos_machine2-root will it break things?
17:13 < gronke> here is the script that's running, line 4 is what I added: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/KTF8IzVgQyaz7GmHWXS0/
17:15 < sstory> gronke: If you do which hmmpfam what does it yield
17:16 < sstory> gronke: Have you double checked that path? Does the binary have execution rights?
17:16 < gronke> sstory, ahh thanks you actually led me to a clue, the program it is looking for, "hmmpfam" was not installed with this version of hmmer that I installed, so maybe it is using an older version
17:17 < sstory> gronke: I actually have no idea...but know that when someone else looks at things they don't usually make the assumptions that the author does. That happens to me often.
17:18 < gronke> sstory, yeah I am backworking on someone's stuff from six years ago, trying to get some old university research code working, so it's a lot of detective work
17:18 < sstory> gronke: Good luck....the script looks fairly nice, though. ;)
17:21 < sstory> gronke: The thing I like about computers is that they ALWAYS do exactly what you tell them to do. The thing I sometimes hate about computers is that the ALWAYS do EXACTLY what you tell them to do...instead of sometimes what you meant to tell them to do. ;)
17:21 < gronke> haha yes, good point
17:23 < gronke> sstory, I tried making an older version, any idea what this error is: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/dAMEXY7ZgGBpSMUZO2DQ/
17:30 < sstory> It sounds like it is redefining getline. Does this help you? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8763052/why-do-i-get-a-conflicting-types-for-getline-error-when-compiling-the-longest
17:30 < sstory> Check out the answer by mooeeeep
17:31 < gronke> actually I tried a newer version and got further, what about this error
17:31 < gronke> https://paste.pound-python.org/show/5NkKOm4M0qvrecb0nznp/
17:31 < gronke> looks like a perl include error
17:31 < itt788> what's the environment variable date uses to determine the timezone?
17:33 < sstory> gronke: Have you looked to see where getopts.pl is located on the system?
17:33 < prussian> TZ or whatever /etc/localtime points to
17:33 < gronke> yeah I installed the fixes, trying to get this thing to properly install
17:33 < gronke> looks like it got it, let's cross our fingers here
17:33 < sstory> gronke: Sounds like a pain.
17:33 < gronke> haha that's my job yes
17:33 < sstory> gronke: Cool!
17:34 < sstory> Maybe things have changed a lot over the years and broken it a bit. Document whatever you found for the next poor soul.
17:34 < gronke> sstory, yeah, it's university work so researchers tend to use really old stuff
17:35 < sstory> gronke: If it ain't broke...don't fix it
17:35 < gronke> sstory, yeah but that's why you have lab machines that run MS-DOS floppies in the year 2018
17:37 < sstory> gronke: hmm. I have seen many things, having been outside the university where we have had to spend enormous cash in order to upgrade something to satisfy Microsoft's drive to force an upgrade of the OS...to no actual functional benefit whatsoever to our company. So that is the other side of the real-world scenario to that deal.
17:37 < gronke> yeah I can see that side
17:37 < sstory> There is a time to make things newer...but sometimes it isn't worth it too.
17:37 < sstory> Glad you fixed it
17:38 < sstory> A couple of years ago we spent $15,000 to upgrade a machine from XP to Win 7, on a piece of critcal equipment that we had to have. XP was perfectly fine, but to stay supported we had to. Now we need to do it again to get on 10 which I don't even like.
17:38 < sstory> I would love to have that all on a nix box, but the vendor would have a heart attack ;)
17:43 < itt788> prussian : it seems on my system it's the file /etc/localtime that date is using
17:44 < itt788> is it normal that copying files with "cp -a" yeilds to files with their last status modification time changed?
17:45 < p3rL> how to send mail in inbox using mail -s cmd
17:47 < chriys> Hi I'm trying to install php-devel on centos and the package isn't found I tried installing remi repo doesn't seem to work
17:48 < chriys> but If I do yum search php-devel i get this: ea-php51-php-devel.x86_64 : Files needed for building PHP extensions ea-php52-php-devel.x86_64 : Files needed for building PHP extensions ea-php53-php-devel.x86_64 : Files needed for building PHP extensions ea-php54-php-devel.x86_64 : Files needed for building PHP extensions ea-php55-php-devel.x86_64 : Files needed for building PHP extensions ea-php56-php-devel.x86_64 : Files needed for buil
17:48 < chriys> how I can I access that repo and install the package php-devel
17:51 < azy> i have a project where i need to cd to a few different dirs, run a few different things (all cli). in the terminal i manually create tabs for each thing. how's best to automate that?
17:53 < jiffe> question, I have a program that forks and then writes to stdout.  Most time I'm not interested in any of the output and I redirect stdout to /dev/null.  Sometimes I'm interested in the output shortly after the program starts though, I don't want to redirect to file as I don't need the rest of the output, I generally just start it, let it write to stdout and then close my shell session and open a new one so I
17:53 < jiffe> don't see the rest of the output.  I don't know if there's a better way to handle that?
17:54 < twainwek> azy: cd dir1 && execute_command
17:54 < twainwek> cd dir1 && execute_command && cd -
17:54 < azy> i need a seperate tab for each
17:55 < twainwek> what's a tab
17:55 < azy> seperate terminal
17:55 < twainwek> don't follow
17:55 < azy> or perhaps some 'screen' solution
17:55 < azy> the apps need to keep running in the terminals
17:55 < azy> bitcoind, php web server, etc
17:56 < Frith> azy: Any reason to not just run them as daemons?
17:56 < twainwek> no need to have a terminal up and running for either
17:57 < azy> Frith, i could do that, but i'd need to figure out how, and i dont mind 1 terminal/window being open, and they sometimes output interesting logs
17:59 < azy> i'd also need a handy way of closing them all too, rather than just closing a window
17:59 < Frith> So instread of how to make a daemon, which is a standard thing with a lot of tutorials, you're instead going to figure out how to do a hacky run-per-terminal-with-first-bit-of-output-but-not-to-file ?
18:01 < azy> yeah because i like how i have it currently, everything is perfect other than starting it up, which i'd like to automate
18:01 < azy> all the logs are easy to read, and it's really easy to shut down
18:01 < fguide> azy if you're only wanting to automate their start, you can script it
18:01 < fguide> then you'd run it once and have it all started
18:02 < azy> if i went the other way, i'd have to come up with ways of reading all the different logs and closing all the daemons. it seems like the more difficult way of doing it?
18:02 < twainwek> the most difficult thing is accepting that the way you're approaching it right now is super awkward and problematic
18:05 < furrymcgee> what is the best init system?
18:05 < t0mato> upstart
18:06 < avis-> can anyone recommend a linux and windows online storage that is $6.00 or less ?
18:06 < avis-> 2TB preferrable
18:06 < twainwek> $6 per month?
18:06 < avis-> thats all i have
18:06 < twainwek> aws s3 is pretty cheap
18:06 < ayecee> sorry, the closest i can do is $6.95
18:06 < avis-> thank you
18:07 < twainwek> and extremely reliable
18:07 < avis-> thank you
18:08 < avis-> i'm good for it.  one day my family gonna see myself as thou they had done me wrong, and their friends family will cry
18:08 < avis-> thanks
18:08 < avis-> i'm sorry.
18:13 < t0mato> oh
18:21 < jhaenchen> still seeking any HID or USB experts for help with my question https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49821950/increasing-the-volume-of-an-hid-device-using-feature-reports/
18:45 < millerti> Is there a program, like tip, cu, netcat, or telnet, that I can use to interact bidirectionally with a character device?  I'm testing a CUSE driver I'm working on.
18:46 < mckendricks> Hi, I have an lto tape device which I am trying to use mt -f /dev/nst0 load on, but the command often fails, I get device or resource busy errors as well as input/output errors, but the device has worked fine in the past: any ideas what might cause this?
18:51 < jack_rabbit> mckendricks, bad cable? old device?
18:51 < jack_rabbit> dirty read heads?
18:52 < jack_rabbit> bad device drivers?
18:52 < jack_rabbit> bad tape?
18:55 < Netham47> If I start X without the nvidia drivers loaded, load the drivers, is there any way to get X to recognize that and use the card without a restart?
18:56 < Netham47> End-goal is a smoother way to switch between GPU passthrouh with my VM and my host.
18:58 < peetaur> Netham47: if you mean the nvidia driver is bound already, then just restart x after configuring it
18:59 < Netham47> peetaur: the goal is to be able to switch the nvidia card on and off withut restarting X.
18:59 < peetaur> if you mean you are swapping between vfio-pci and nvidia/nouveau I think the linux kernel can't do that (it's one of the only things windows does better)
18:59 < Netham47> I can, I have that part working, I just have to have X off first. I'm trying to find a way around that.
19:03 < JimBuntu> Netham47, does `xrandr --listproviders` show the nvidia card once you load the drivers?
19:07 < Netham47> Sec, I'll check. https://pastebin.com/GN530kxR is the scripts I made to automate turning the drivers on/off.
19:07 < Netham47> Brb, going to lose my terminal.
19:11 < Netham47> Doesn't list the nvidia card, no.
19:13 < Netham47> I can use optirun though
19:14 < Netham47> But from what I understand that starts another instance of X on the proper GPU and copies the framebuffer over to the intel igpu.
19:14 < Netham47> optirun being part of bumblebee
19:16 < Netham47> And, yea, I tried this on Windows too. Most of my hardware shows up under the same PCI group on Windows so I can't do PCI passthrough with Hyper-V without passing through way too much.
19:16 < Netham47> Linux's handling of PCI passthrough is far more flexible right now.
19:18 < Trel> When writing a script, is it generally safe to assume the presence of tput on every machine?
19:19 < uplime> you can just put a check at the top of the script
19:20 < uplime> if ! hash tput 2> /dev/null; then printf 'please install tmux before continuing\n' >&2; exit 1; fi
19:22 < Trel> uplime: know what's hilarious? I'm talking about tput for setting term colors, not tmux, BUT the script I'm writing is for tmux XD
19:23 < uplime> oh
19:23 < uplime> idk why I wrote that
19:23 < uplime> but it works :D
19:23 < Trel> uplime: seriously look http://termbin.com/kbuu
19:23 < uplime> lol
19:24 < Trel> Rather than check for tput, if it's not pretty much ubiquitous, I'd just use normal escapes to do the color
19:24 < uplime> Trel: thats a bad idea
19:24 < ssarah> is installing ntp on all machines enough to make sure they are synced between them?
19:25 < uplime> tput makes the script terminal agnostic
19:25 < ssarah> or do i need to point them out the the same ntp "server" ?
19:25 < uplime> using hardcoded escape sequences ties the script to specific terminal emulators
19:25 < ssarah> i know ntp works in layers and stuff
19:25 < Trel> uplime: I agree, which is what I'm trying to figure out if tput is standard on most systems, if it is, I'm golden
19:26 < nmschulte> What drivers support the Apple Magic Trackpad 2 on GNU/Linux (v4.15, Debian Sid)?  hid_generic is the kernel driver, X11 is picking the device up via udev, using input driver `libinput`.  But I only get simple inputs: click and single finger position.
19:27 < nmschulte> I want to pair the pad via bluetooth and enable all of the multi touch input and gesture functionality.
19:27 < jhaenchen> did someone say HID?
19:28 < jhaenchen> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/49821950/increasing-the-volume-of-an-hid-device-using-feature-reports/
19:28 < jimm> running sid is a bold move :)
19:29 < nmschulte> jhaenchen: how does that support my Jabra Speak 510?
19:30 < jhaenchen> I'm sorry nmschulte it's not related to your question I'm just desparate for help and feeling spammy
19:31 < nmschulte> jhaenchen: I support your effort!  I have a 510, which I think is just the 410 with bluetooth
19:32 < jhaenchen> nmschulte: I've got the LED's working, but volume support is still totally missing. Check out this abandoned forum post: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:E1xA4EUuLXsJ:developer.jabra.com/forums/posts/list/200.page+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
19:32 < jhaenchen> So tantalizing
19:32 < jhaenchen> But 404 :(
19:32  * jhaenchen sobs
19:33 < nmschulte> jhaenchen: try poking Jabra, ask for that file
19:34 < jhaenchen> nmschulte: Emailed three different people, called in to their support line too. Now we wait...
19:47 < mawk> hi
19:50 < jhaenchen> mawk: hi
19:52 < Netham47> jhaenchen: 104.198.106.192 developer.jabra.com
19:53 < Netham47> Old IP that that link is valid at. I was able to download that sample ZIP you're looking for.
19:54 < jhaenchen> Whaaaaat
19:54 < jhaenchen> Netham47: http://104.198.106.192/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/05/linux_sample_vol_host-to-headset.zip didn't work for me
19:54 < Netham47> jhaenchen: you need to do a hosts mod. Sec, I'll upload it somewhere.
19:55 < jhaenchen> thanks
19:55 < Psi-Jack> What're you  trying to actually do?
19:55 < Netham47> jhaenchen: http://www.mediafire.com/file/7clmypuw8vat99d/linux_sample_vol_host-to-headset.zip
19:56 < jhaenchen> Psi-Jack:  Programmatically increase/decrease the speaker volume of a Jabra 410
19:56 < jhaenchen> Using HID, preferably
19:56 < Netham47> I didn't even open that ZIP file, so idk what's in it.
19:56 < jhaenchen> thank you a ton Netham47
19:59 < nmschulte> jhaenchen: "D
19:59 < jhaenchen> Psi-Jack: the spec mentions volume control but I can't really tell what for https://developer.jabra.com/site/global/sdks/web/documentation/index.gsp#TOC23
20:00 < jhaenchen> the zip contains C code which is illuminating as for how the volume control is done but does not demonstrate any HID method of controlling the volume, unfortunately
20:00  * jhaenchen keeps googling
20:02 < nmschulte> Netham47: what tools do you use to lookat historical DNS records?
20:04 < triceratux> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-internet-has-bigger-problems-than-facebook-and-its-obamas-fault
20:05 < Netham47> nmschulte: I googled ip info "developer.jabra.com" and the link to https://www.infolinks.top/rmhws.org/ had an old description cached that had developer.jabra.com listed as a site that was on the IP.
20:05 < Netham47> Tried it and it worked.
20:06 < Netham47> But, if you want to view historical DNS info try dnstrails (security trails now?) and dnshistory. There are some historical WHOIS servers you can use to find old nameservers too, sometimes those still have old records on them.
20:06 < Netham47> s/servers/services
20:06 < jhaenchen> Netham47:  So you figured out the old IP that developer.jabra.com pointed to by looking at the cached page for the dns service?
20:07 < jhaenchen> that's awesome
20:08 < Netham47> jhaenchen: that was just some site aggregator it looked like, but yea, the IP was on that page. The google listing had a cached description for the page when I searched for it.
20:09 < Netham47> I didn't find anything on dnstrails/dnshistory for that subdomain, googling that was kind of a shot in the dark that worked.
20:10 < jhaenchen> I can't believe they're still hosting the forums but not exposing them in DNS
20:10 < jhaenchen> that's insane
20:10 < jhaenchen> Why jabra, why
20:11 < Netham47> The forums 404'd for me but their WordPress homepage was still up and that's where that zip was uploaded to.
20:11 < ayecee> turns out it's hosted on a server behind a wall that someone forgot about.
20:12 < Dagmar> THey're Jabra
20:12 < Dagmar> What did you expect?  They're practicaly famous for making great products with one, single, overwhelming flaw.
20:14 < velix> This girl seems to miss root access: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUdyuKaGQd4
20:16 < oerheks> velix, another Adele-clone
20:16 < uplime> a dell clone
20:16 < jhaenchen> I'm so bummed that it appears to be impossible to control the volume using HID. I got all the other functionality, call answer/end and mute LEDs, but no volume.
20:16 < velix> oerheks: yeah, but she sings about not having root :D
20:16  * jhaenchen fumes
20:17 < nmschulte> jhaenchen: capture some packetz!
20:17 < oerheks> velix, oke, send it to linux-top-1000
20:17 < nmschulte> Netham47: I was trying to make sure _you_ didn't control this IP, :P
20:18 < jhaenchen> nmschulte: Yeah, time to turn on wireshark. Of course that means I'll have to use chrome.usb API, which only works if the OS doesn't claim the device, which Linux OS always does claim it.
20:18 < nmschulte> jhaenchen: perhaps I can help.
20:18 < jhaenchen> And since I'll be a chrome app I can't tell the OS to release it.
20:18 < Netham47> nmschulte: Nope, but I'm getting the vibe you work for them.
20:19 < nmschulte> that'd be a no, but I do like the Jabra Speaks! Working well w/ all my hardware.
20:20 < Netham47> Ah, lol. I've honestly never heard of them before today.
20:20 < Dagmar> My MOto S305 headset works great over Bluetooth
20:20 < Dagmar> Classic Jabra
20:22 < Dagmar> raoul11: I'm not having problems with unexpected murders anywhere but on 8
20:31 < draeath> how not to render text in a PNG: https://i.imgur.com/uLYneq0.png
20:31 < draeath> anyone happen to recognize that failure mode?
20:32 < hexnewbie> draeath: Can you share the text at the start of the legend for all RRD datasets?
20:34 < hexnewbie> draeath: I suspect you're using the msam10 font by accident instead of a proper font (e.g. DejaVu Sans mono)
20:34 < draeath> hexnewbie: afraid i couldn't tell you, I just tossed on the PCP webapp demos (on RHEL) and noticed the server-side rendered stuff was doing that
20:35 < hexnewbie> draeath: 0 in msam10 is rendered as ≤ (with the - over the <), the same as in the picture
20:35 < what_if> how can I get color emojis in Linux?? Is that still not an option?
20:36 < draeath> hexnewbie: hrm, it sounds reasonable. Gives me a direction to sniff in, at least. Thanks!
20:36 < hexnewbie> draeath: 1 is the reverse symbol, so I suspect the bottom axis is at zero, the third grid line is at 1, and the font is msam10. Probably install more fonts on the server? Particularly whatever the software expects as default (DejaVu Sans Mono, or Courier are good candidates)
20:37 < nmschulte> what_if: what_if it's totally a thing... not sure what youre question is
20:37 < nmschulte> go grab a font that respects the unicode modifiers and you're there.
20:37 < what_if> nmschulte: my emojis are black and white, and kinda crappy. How do I get better ones?
20:37 < hexnewbie> Well, any font that doesn't abuse the character codes  ;p
20:37 < what_if> nmschulte: its making it hard to speak millenial
20:38 < hexnewbie> Oh, wrong question. Sorry.
20:38 < nmschulte> what_if: my Android device displays them just fine.  Slack webapp does as well, but I think it does special things to get there.
20:38 < nmschulte> 👶🏾
20:39 < what_if> nmschulte: any recommendations?  I installed ancientfonts and one called symbol. They all look like just teh shadows of hte emojis
20:39 < hexnewbie> nmschulte: That looks really funny with bitmap font emojis, and even funnier with color ones
20:39 < prussian> use tools that work with them...
20:39 < what_if> hmm... maybe a different IRC client?
20:40 < prussian> VTE can do unicode 6.0
20:40 < prussian> or so...
20:41 < nmschulte> what_if: urxvt and irssi don't show the utf-8 correctly
20:41 < nmschulte> but gvim does
20:41 < nmschulte> I don't know how to determine which font-set is providing the glyphs -- choosing the moniker 'Monospace' and it shows fine.
20:42 < nmschulte> Whatever font I'm using is from Debian main or contrib, so it's not gonna be hard to find.
20:43 < hexnewbie> what_if: Symbola is outline vector with no colours. It looks fine to me, but won't give you colour emojis. Noto Color Emoji is the font you need to install to get GTK+ to work. Mozilla (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc.) ship EmojiOne Color (a SVG font that only works with Mozilla).
20:43 < what_if> I'm gonna write my own IRC client... with blackjack... and emojis!
20:43 < hexnewbie> GTK+3 only
20:43 < revel> what_if: Don't forget the hookers.
20:43 < nmschulte> gnome-terminal renders them well
20:44 < what_if> awww what about us QT people. lame
20:44 < hexnewbie> I use Terminus Regular 12 (very similar to old courier) with a fallback set to Unifont 9.0. Emojis look fine to me, I like bitmaps. 😃
20:45 < nmschulte> well... close -- http://oi68.tinypic.com/2jcbtzb.jpg
20:46 < what_if> I need another Mac
20:46 < ayecee> you can't handle another mac!
20:46 < hexnewbie> nmschulte: I'm very old-school, I like it like this: https://imgur.com/a/4RA4Q
20:47 < nmschulte> what_if: https://paste.debian.net/1020632/
20:47 < oehansen> I am drunk
20:47 < nmschulte> hexnewbie: which terminal is that?
20:47 < ayecee> also ugly
20:47 < hexnewbie> nmschulte: hexchat
20:47 < oehansen> yes, that too
20:47 < oehansen> and stupid
20:48 < hexnewbie> I have any doubts it can be any prettier
20:50 < tuu> Hi, I have two files https://pastebin.com/raw/Xh1nSH00 https://pastebin.com/raw/23JvA8V5 and I want to merch the contents to get https://pastebin.com/raw/cRd9tERc , does anyone know how to do this?
20:51 < hexnewbie> tuu: Hire a person to do it
20:57 < aBound> Woo, Ubuntu 18.04 is almost here. :P
20:58 < paddy|> and then?
20:58 < nmschulte> no and then.
21:00 < Psi-Jack> Oh no... Ubuntu 18.04 is almost here! Another waste of time, space, and everything. :)
21:00 < ayecee> bring it on
21:00  * draeath hides from the newbie rush
21:00 < paddy|> wasnt 2018 the proclaimed reunification of debian and ubuntu?
21:00 < jkemppainen> Oh no... Psi-Jack is being elitist again! Another waste of IRC bandwidth, time, space, and everything. :)
21:00 < ayecee> as foretold by prophesy
21:01 < aBound> No time wasting only congratulation. :P
21:01 < hexnewbie> paddy|: The original prophesy predicts Ubuntu will devour Debian, not merge with it.
21:01 < UristMcRM|Tux> a prophesy which misread may hav been /yoda
21:02 < phogg> Ubuntu cannot ever eat Debian, but Debian could absorb Ubuntu if the corporate part goes out of business and its maintainers have an interest in trying to continue.
21:02 < ayecee> til prophecy is a noun, prophesy is a verb
21:03 < hexnewbie> Typos will bring balance to the package management.
21:03  * phogg believes some sort of fusion dance would be required in any case
21:03 < draeath> The real fight isn't debian vs ubuntu, but deb vs rpm!
21:03 < twainwek> tuu: i'm guessing that's just an example and what you want to do is parse much more complex files, yes?
21:04 < tuu> twainwek: yes
21:04 < hexnewbie> draeath: rpm wins this one easily :^D (Debian person here)
21:04 < phogg> draeath: The real fight is apt vs. shittier tools people think are worth using.
21:04 < benedict> anyone know if rsync can set rate limits on a schedule ie. between 0-6am 100MB/S between 6-12pm 20MB/s etc...
21:04 < benedict> if not what can
21:04 < phogg> benedict: no, use tc for shaping
21:04 < draeath> hexnewbie: i use both often - what I miss in RPM is the (implemented) difference between a hard and soft dependency. Like deb's suggests.
21:04 < jhaenchen> Jabra: Hi, we are currently transitioning to a developer support new platform. The forums should be back online in a couple of days.
21:04 < jhaenchen> I don't believe you!
21:05 < phogg> jhaenchen: wrong channel?
21:05 < hexnewbie> draeath: .deb has three levels even (require, recommend and suggest). But building RPMs is so so much easier
21:05 < jhaenchen> I'm just making fun of Jabra customer support
21:05 < draeath> hexnewbie: only once you have your ~/RPMBUILD or whatever set up, it's kind of a PITA (debian does ship a bunch of workflow tools to help)
21:05 < twainwek> tuu: how big of a project are you working with? if it's small enough, you might be able to regex it as much as possible with some scripting say with python
21:06 < phogg> draeath: there's no doubt physically making an RPM is easier, but I content that making a *good* RPM is not much harder than making a good .deb. The real problem on the .deb side is documentation.
21:06 < phogg> s/content/contend/
21:06 < aBound> I started an avalanche. :P
21:06 < draeath> Agree, seems the docs you get are all based on the debian project, and less so on the nitty gritty source to deb process
21:07 < twainwek> tuu: e.g. pick up the forward declarations first, then scan  the other file and replace it as you go along. though it can get very overwhelming very quick especially if it's c++ and not c... so again if it's a small enough project and the adopted style is consistent, may work
21:07 < draeath> I mean, just go and dissect the python packages build process for an exercise in frustration
21:07 < hexnewbie> draeath: Er, s/build/make/
21:07 < phogg> draeath: I think they expect newbies to be able to log in to IRC and ask questions of a mentor.
21:08 < draeath> fair, but it's off-putting to me. I want to read docs and have a viable result.
21:08 < phogg> draeath: Although I know why it's like that it's a bit of a shame since otherwise the influence of .deb would be much stronger.
21:09 < draeath> So far my use of the tools (on both systems, rpm and deb) has been adding a minor patch, or playing with dependencies (eg, no you *don't* require <random GUI bull package that has no place on a headless host>)
21:09 < phogg> draeath: I agree. Every time I get stuck building a .deb I die a little inside and have to ask myself if I *REALLY* need this.
21:10 < phogg> If you could get a technical writer and come in with an outsider viewpoint then thoroughly document the .deb build process and produce complete docs + introductory tutorials I think the "deb is too hard" meme would die out quickly.
21:10 < draeath> On the other side, every time i have to go dig up the manpage to deal with cpio's stupid syntax to extract an RPM, i want to hurt myself :P
21:10 < phogg> draeath: I have been there, too (-;
21:10 < tuu> twainwek: thanks, i'll try this.
21:11 < Dagmar> That's because cpio pre-dates color pornography as well as just about everything Unix that didn't come from Berkley
21:11 < phogg> cpio has an interface only a mother could tolerate
21:11 < Jake_fallencowbo> Hello all
21:11 < draeath> that's a good way to put it :D
21:11 < Dagmar> RPM used it because 1) it worked and 2) it was old enough to be present everywhere
21:11 < hexnewbie> draeath: I just open mc and press Enter over the .rpm. But you already need to know cpio from extracting initramfss
21:11 < phogg> Dagmar: ar isn't everywhere?
21:11  * phogg really has not looked
21:12 < phogg> pretty sure it's used for libraries
21:12 < draeath> I legit can't remember the last time I had to inxpect an initramfs when I wasn't already inside the initramfs
21:12 < Dagmar> Note that these things were not considered a factor because there wasn't meant to be much *human* interaction: 1. ease of use, 2. meaningfulness of error messages, 3. documentation, 4. fault tolerance
21:12 < draeath> inspect, even. I don't know how i managed THAT typo.
21:12 < Dagmar> phogg: Precisely.  Ar was used for code libraries
21:12 < Dagmar> cpio was just old as f**k
21:13 < Psi-Jack> |^o0|o: What's with the flip-flopping nick?
21:13 < |^o0|o> what's with you pestering everyone
21:13 < koala_man> draeath: obviously because x is right below s on qwerty
21:13 < Dagmar> they could have used tar except GNU tar was still a bit whiffy by comparison
21:13 < draeath> koala_man: spoilsport :P
21:14 < phogg> draeath: sometimes I make sound-alike typos even when the keys are not near each other, because that's how my brain works.
21:14 < draeath> I sometimes get wierd hybrid words where my thought gets ahead of my hands. Cut out the middle and glue the stubs together :P
21:14 < hexnewbie> The .deb's ar archive contains two tars, so it doesn't matter if ar was everywhere, you also need tar. Or it didn't use tar initially?
21:15 < phogg> hexnewbie: I remember the format changing but I can't remember when or what it was before
21:15 < furrymcgee> debian updated their policy manual few days ago
21:15 < hexnewbie> phogg: Me too. Maybe it was ar with two cpio archives inside before?
21:15 < Psi-Jack> |^o0|o: You're in a very large active channel, nick changes are noisy, and you've been doing the flip-flop back and fourth many times already and it's looking kind of like an "away" nick.
21:15 < draeath> They've recently moved to xz internally, instead of gz i think?
21:15 < draeath> but it's been tar inside ar for a looong time
21:15 < |^o0|o> you pestering everyone is noisy
21:15 < phogg> hexnewbie: you could probably sell me anything on that subject. I CBA to look
21:16 < draeath> |^o0|o: your nick is obnoxious, btw :P
21:16 < Psi-Jack> ^ Agreed with that too but, besides the point. :)
21:16 < |^o0|o> dittto bb's
21:16 < phogg> draeath: looking inside a recent .deb I still see .gz for the control tarball but xz for the data
21:16 < phogg> any time I have to hit shift it's a problem
21:16 < draeath> Probably done that way so an older dpkg/apt can read about the package even if it can't unpack it to filesystem
21:17 < phogg> draeath: hmm, yeah. Makes sense.
21:17 < hexnewbie> Ah, compression was the change?
21:17 < draeath> AFAIK the control tarball has the metadata
21:17 < draeath> hexnewbie: nah that's more recent.
21:17 < Psi-Jack> |^o0|o: So... What's with the flip-flopping? :p
21:17 < Dagmar> xz != gz
21:17 < |^o0|o> why are you still pestering me?
21:17 < phogg> hexnewbie: probably not the time we were thinking of. The format change I'm remembering was from the late 90s (or not much after)
21:17 < Psi-Jack> |^o0|o: Because you didn't answer.
21:17 < jkemppainen> Psi-Jack: they got the point, flip-flopping nicks is bad, there's no need to drag it further
21:17 < phogg> |^o0|o: he's a merciless busybody
21:18 < |^o0|o> am i being detained?
21:18 < draeath> I just ignored JOINS PARTS NICKS and QUITS all together, a while ago
21:18 < draeath> too much incessant screen scrolling otherwise
21:18 < phogg> Dagmar: too true, xz < gz (-:
21:18 < Psi-Jack> Joins, Parts, Quits, I accept, Nicks I don't because they're still part of the channel.
21:18 < draeath> xz can be so sloooow
21:18 < hexnewbie> t(xz) >> t(gz) though
21:19 < draeath> We need (er, should want) a threading compressor to become top dog, already. difficult to do with a stream-like compressor though
21:19 < Dagmar> phogg: Just reacting to the "oh the compression is the difference?" thing.  heh
21:20 < Dagmar> draeath: "Threading" is not a magic bullet
21:20 < draeath> works well enough for pbzip2
21:20 < Dagmar> Writing efficient and elegant code will universally be a better approach to stream data problems
21:20 < draeath> a bit of overhead loss, but it still compresses better than gz, and compression is much much faster
21:21 < draeath> and there are solutions like pigz, but those aren't backwards compatible
21:21 < Dagmar> It's a different compression algorithm and method
21:21 < Dagmar> There's mechanisms better than bz2, but they're considerably slower
21:21 < Dagmar> Fast, cheap, good, *you may pick two*
21:21 < hexnewbie> Well, there is pixz. But I suspect I wouldn't like it
21:22 < draeath> Well, it's not that simple. bzip does a hell of a lot more than just pass bits through a black box
21:22 < draeath> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bzip2#Compression_stack for the high level, if anyone is curious
21:22 < lovingninetails> Swiggity swooty I am coming for your booty
21:23 < lucasem> To run a thing correctly, I need LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$PWD ./a.out — how can I compile it with the library in my pwd (call it libfoo.a) so it doesn't need to be done at runtime (and I could move a.out around without breaking things)
21:23 < Dagmar> Compile the thing statically
21:23 < phogg> Dagmar: fast compress, fast decompress, high compress; pick any one
21:24 < Dagmar> phogg: Either way, the point is that the compression _approach_ must allow simultaneous entry points of threading isn't even going to be a possibility
21:24 < draeath> lucasem: you can use `ld` to link objects in. knowing the name of the tool i'm sure you can find examples of it's usage
21:25 < draeath> Dagmar: if he's got an `a.out` he's probably not driving a Makefile :P
21:25 < lucasem> I have a Makefile
21:25 < CashDash123> How could I gain access to my smart tv?
21:25 < draeath> Oh.
21:25 < koala_man> lucasem: you can link it with -rpath '$ORIGIN' or something to make it search the executable's dir for libraries
21:25 < lucasem> I'm linking some parts, but having trouble with a shared obj
21:25 < Psi-Jack> CashDash123: Got a Linux question?
21:26 < draeath> lucasem: well, you need to have your library sitting in one of the places ldconfig is configured to look
21:26 < lucasem> koala_man: can I somehow inject the library into the exe so they don't need to be shipped together?
21:26 < CashDash123> It technically runs linux
21:26 < Dominian> CashDash123: call the manufacturer
21:26 < koala_man> lucasem: you can link it statically, but not with a .so
21:26 < jhaenchen> could port scan it
21:26 < Psi-Jack> CashDash123: Yes, but reverse engineering things is not generally supported here. :)
21:27 < lucasem> koala_man: there's a separate build process which gives me an .so that I can't change. Is it possible to turn that into a .o somehow?
21:27 < CashDash123> oh ok,and Dominian They'd probably laugh
21:27 < draeath> CashDash123: generally there's two ways to do it - and even this is off topic. 1, find a way to flash your own kernel/initrd (good luck). 2, find and exploit a security vulnerability that gives you shell or code execution. Also good luck.
21:27 < Psi-Jack> CashDash123: More specifically, this is a channel more focused on GNU/Linux help & discussions.
21:27 < lovingninetails> I switched to Lubuntu from Debian + Openbox
21:27 < koala_man> lucasem: no
21:27 < CashDash123> There's a reverse engineering discord
21:27 < lucasem> koala_man: got it, I'll try to change deeper parts of the build process. Thanks!
21:28 < draeath> lucasem: maybe helpful https://stackoverflow.com/a/725550
21:28 < lovingninetails> Looks like perl got an update
21:28 < SpeakerToMeat> Question, do you guys know any tool where I can see all linux system fonts, but showing any string I write to compare them?
21:29 < UserUS> SpeakerToMeat: Have you googled such a thing?
21:29 < aBound> Swoosh... :P
21:29 < SpeakerToMeat> UserUS: yes
21:29 < draeath> lovingninetails: debian stable is pretty fresh these days, not surprising. AFAIK ubuntu has a new release coming soonish
21:30 < lovingninetails> draeath: Yeah, 18.04 LTS in a few days
21:30 < UserUS> SpeakerToMeat: Couldn't you run through the fonts in Libre?
21:30 < draeath> SpeakerToMeat: gnome-specimen if you've got gnome
21:31 < draeath> SpeakerToMeat: https://i.stack.imgur.com/6cXoV.png
21:31 < draeath> dunno if it still exists
21:31 < draeath> but i've not seen a multi-font comparison (think like fonts.google.com)
21:31 < draeath> ... other than that. sorry. i'm having problems forming complete thoughts :P
21:34 < SpeakerToMeat> draeath: Looks nice
21:34 < SpeakerToMeat> draeath: Seems to still exist, thank you
21:35 < draeath> Glad to help
21:35 < SpeakerToMeat> Though it seems tou need to select, I'll try it, if it works, wgreat if it doesn't I might have to write one soon
21:39  * paddy| turns learn mode off to save some energy
22:28 < dunnousernamefn> What is the minimum amount of memory a thread uses? Like, I would think it must store registers and maybe an ID, but what else?
22:29 < jhaenchen> stores registers? think not
22:29 < jhaenchen> stack and pointers to start
22:29 < draeath> you're thinking of a stack frame, there
22:30 < dunnousernamefn> But is it normally negligible in comparison to the thread code itself?
22:30 < bipul> I have Mysql-server running on VM-1 and i would like to shift it to VM-2. Is there anyway through which i can make a tarball of mysql-server(Mysql important directory with config file) and push it to VM-2?
22:30 < bipul>  
22:31 < draeath> bipul: "mysqldbcopy"
22:31 < draeath> https://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql-utilities/1.5/en/mysqldbcopy.html
22:31 < dunnousernamefn> How can I list the number of processes with a given name?
22:31 < dunnousernamefn> e.g. chromium-browse
22:32 < draeath> bipul: https://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql-utilities/1.5/en/mysqldbcompare.html may also be useful to know about - you can create SQL 'deltas' between servers
22:32 < dunnousernamefn> I imagine I could iterate over pidof or something
22:32 < ozymandias> ps aux | grep -c chromium-browse
22:32 < draeath> dunnousernamefn: stupid way: pgrep | wc -l
22:32 < dunnousernamefn> uh oh
22:32 < dunnousernamefn> I don't really have 115 tabs do I
22:33 < draeath> `ps axjf` for a full tree :P
22:33 < bipul> draeath, It's specifically for MySQL how about redmine? if i have to move redmine?
22:33 < dunnousernamefn> Wait, does wc -l include hyphens as two words?
22:34 < draeath> bipul: you said Mysql. I don't even know what redmine is.
22:34 < dunnousernamefn> oh its lines
22:34 < draeath> dunnousernamefn: wc -l looks at *lines* only
22:34 < bipul> Oh it's okay
22:34 < bipul> Thank you.
22:34 < ice9> how to enable vsync?
22:34 < draeath> ice9: what kind of GPU?
22:34 < tvm> draeath: you didn't miss anything with redmine
22:34 < ice9> draeath, nvidia
22:35 < ice9> draeath, optimus laptop
22:35 < draeath> proprietary driver, or noveau?
22:35 < dunnousernamefn> Woah I just closed some processes and the memory usage is down like 5 gigabytes
22:35 < dunnousernamefn> I'm a terrible person
22:36 < ice9> draeath, prop
22:36 < draeath> nvidia-settings tool has a switch for it
22:36 < draeath> you can also try this: http://www.thelinuxrain.com/articles/got-tearing-with-proprietary-nvidia-try-this
22:37 < ice9> draeath, i can't  find it, where is it exactly?
22:37 < draeath> Dunno, what distro do you have? Did you install via download from nvidia, or somewhere else?
22:38 < draeath> or do you mean the vsync option
22:38 < ice9> draeath, i mean the vsync option
22:40 < draeath> I don't have linux with that hardware to check, and it's been years. Google is telling me it's the "Force Full Composition Pipeline" near the bottom of the display config page: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/uploads/articles/article_media/14841498571.jpg
22:41 < draeath> ice9: note: you want to leave vsync *off* in OpenGL applications if you set that, because it causes some nasty fighting (and I guess is redundant) resulting in 30% or so performance loss
22:41 < ice9> thanks draeath
22:42 < draeath> also might be a 'Sync to VBlank' option in there somewhere worth playing with
22:43 < draeath> Good luck. I seem to recall telling applications to use vsync was the better way, but that was like 5 years ago
22:46 < Evidlo> the ssh man page says " If ocmmand is specified, it is execute don the rmote host instead of a logi shell."   Isn't this security vulnerability?
22:46 < ozymandias> no
22:46 < ozymandias> because you still have to log in to do it
22:46 < Evidlo> crazy typos today: "If command is specified, it is executed on the remote host instead of a login shell"
22:46 < ozymandias> and if you can log in, you could run it anyway
22:46 < Evidlo> not if your shell is set to /bin/false or /bin/nologin
22:47 < Dagmar> If that's set then the authentication will fail.
22:47 < ozymandias> indeed
22:47 < ozymandias> those are supposed to be checked earlier in the ssh process
22:48 < ozymandias> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/184031/can-a-command-be-executed-over-ssh-with-a-nologin-user
22:48 < ozymandias> the man page is just unclear
22:49 < Evidlo> why does the man page specify "instead"?
22:49 < ozymandias> it functuanally exits the ssh session when the specified command is finished
22:49 < Dagmar> The man page isn't unclear
22:49 < ozymandias> Evidlo, because you dont get a login shell
22:49 < ozymandias> you get the command you sent
22:50 < Dagmar> You're supposed to *know* that if the account can't be used for logins then there's no point in attempting to coerce ssh to execute a command, for the same reason the man page doesn't say anything about the command requires the computer be _on_
22:50 < djph> Dagmar: wait, my computer has to be _on_ for it to process commands?!
22:51 < ozymandias> djph, join #znc sometime, about once a week someone has that confusion
22:51 < uplime> djph: it must be a recent change
22:51 < ozymandias> i'm not kidding
22:51 < ozymandias> they honestly appear to think that znc is magic
22:51 < djph> ozymandias: znc? err, IRC bouncer, innit?
22:51 < Dagmar> djph: Well, I hear there's some very beta work being done to fix that in the upcoming 5.x kernel series, so it may be a while
22:51 < ozymandias> djph, yup -- and people wonder why it doesnt run when the machine running it is powered off
22:52 < ozymandias> i am absolutely not exagerating.
22:52 < djph> ozymandias: ... Electrical conduits in machine room are melting.
22:52 < ozymandias> people will come in asking for 'debugging' help to figure out why their znc host keeps logging off irc
22:52 < djph> it goes to sleep?
22:52 < jkemppainen> yeah, fancy that, a CPU needs to be powered for it to work
22:53 < jkemppainen> like, who would have thought, right?
22:53 < ozymandias> or they turn it off.
22:53 < infinisil> ozymandias: Your nick feels familiar, were you active in an austrian lucid dreaming forum some time ago?
22:53 < ozymandias> infinisil, no sir
22:53 < jhaenchen> that's a specific forum
22:53 < infinisil> Alright then, carry on
22:56 < vezveth> hello everyone :)
22:56 < jimm> hi
22:59 < jimm> need to do a couple nick changes.. pardon the dust...
23:05 < jim> ok, all done
23:10 < infinisil> Holy moly, I just turned off all my IRC filters
23:11 < diogenese> rude awakening huh?
23:11 < infinisil> There's so many joins/quits..
23:14 < jim> yup... and I'm one folk who gotta watch em :)
23:16 < djph> jim: I'd say I felt bad for you ... but, well lying to an op and all that.
23:20 < ossifrage> This is odd. why would tcpdump see packets with bad ethernet crcs on a 802.11 interface. The MIC should catch any bad packets before they make it out of the radio
23:21 < ossifrage> The bad packets have 0 ethernet crcs, I can't imagine they would forward a bad packet and just stomp on the CRC by default, maybe for debugging, not by default.
23:21 < djph> damage somewhere else
23:22 < djph> or rather, PC1 thinks it's right, PC2 thinks its wrong ... kinda hard to do, but not impossible
23:23 < ossifrage> I'm sniffing the wired interface in the AP and the packets in question are from the wifi side.
23:26 < zapotah> ossifrage: sounds like a buggy driver and buggy hardware
23:26 < zapotah> ossifrage: if its a wireless device that is not meant to be used as an access point, i would not be surprised
23:27 < zapotah> ossifrage: many client devices dont work well if at all in master mode
23:27 < ossifrage> This is a ubiquiti AC HD, it is a bit of a beast and is very much designed to be an access point
23:27 < zapotah> latest software?
23:27 < zapotah> mine does not forward faulty frames
23:28 < ossifrage> As of a few months ago, I don't bother to run the management software all the time because it is a giant piggie for 1 AP
23:28 < zapotah> well, i suggest upgrading firmware first and foremost
23:30 < zapotah> with bad luck youve faulty ethernet on the AP and it mangles frames there
23:32 < ossifrage> FFS, I got the address wrong the bad packets are coming from the bloody fios quantum gateway POS
23:32 < zapotah> grand
23:34 < ossifrage> It is fibre -> ONT -> ethernet -> quantum-POS -> AP.... A bad packet from the WAN should have been dropped at the ONT
23:35 < zapotah> your AP surely does not directly have an ssid bridged to the internet
23:35 < zapotah> plus
23:35 < zapotah> none of these devices do cut-through
23:36 < zapotah> so you will need to figure out which device bungles up the frames
23:36 < ossifrage> It is curious that all the bad packets are QUIC flows even though the majority of the traffic in the trace are TLS
23:37 < zapotah> figure out where it gets bungled
23:37 < zapotah> then debug further
23:38 < djph> zapotah: there's always "set it all on fire and throw it out the window"
23:38 < zapotah> djph: aye
23:38 < zapotah> it is always a valid option :3
23:38 < ossifrage> I need to get rid of the verizon hardware, but I'm still waiting on pfsense support for the C3558
23:39 < zapotah> youre going to wait for a while
23:39 < zapotah> since hardware additions happen at fbsd revisions
23:39 < ossifrage> zapotah, I'd assume they will support it as soon as they release their own hardware based on the C3000
23:40 < zapotah> and it will take quite some time for pfsense to incorporate the latest fbsd
23:40 < zapotah> nay, they wont write their own device drivers
23:40 < zapotah> that much is 100% certain
23:40 < zapotah> especially for cpu
23:41 < ossifrage> The C3000 is an SOC, the CPU works just fine, it is the integrated ethernet interfaces that don't have pfsense support yet (but I think fbsd does)
23:41 < benedict> ok, what is *free* software that can transfer 1TB files quickly from a windows pc to a linux server? rsync is garbage, sftp works, any other protocols/programs?
23:42 < benedict> sftp seems to cap out at 300mbit or so... which is fine, but if there is anything faster
23:42 < zapotah> benedict: over the internet, sftp is probly as good as you get
23:42 < zapotah> ossifrage: and no, fbsd does not quite yet have the support for it
23:43 < zapotah> iirc
23:43 < ossifrage> benedict, scp will happily saturate a 1gbps internet connection
23:44 < Bashing-om> ttps://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2389340 for alternatives .
23:44 < zapotah> webdav might accomodate you, but...
23:44 < zapotah> you need to do ssl for that to be secure and actually reliable to any degree
23:45 < snuggiest> What are some nifty text-based programs?
23:45 < Bashing-om> benedict: See: ttps://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2389340 fir alternatives .
23:47 < ossifrage> benedict, normally I just just tar|xz|ssh|xz|tar, throw as much CPU at the compression as you can afford
23:47 < benedict> the files are already fully compressed
23:47 < triceratux> snuggiest: vfu http://cade.datamax.bg/vfu/
23:49 < benedict> scp is still slower than sftp
23:49 < vezveth> ...mmmm...but darlin'...stay with me... duh duh duh duh :)
23:50 < ossifrage> benedict, is this over the internet? how fast is the slowest link?
23:51 < SmashingX> anybody might know how can I install mod_ssl? I did this and I got an error: http://pastebin.centos.org/683966/
23:51 < ozymandias> fix your httpd install
23:52 < ozymandias> looks like you are mixing repos
23:53 < ozymandias> you cannot install multiple versions of httpd, and the mod_ssl you are installing requires a specific version (2.2) and you somehow have 2.4 installed
23:54 < k2gremlin> Is there a linux channel dedicated to super beginner scripting questions? Don't want to overload here lol
23:54 < mawk> h i
23:54 < ossifrage> benedict, with modern hardware you should not have any problem saturating a gigabit connection with a single TLS flow.
23:55 < twainwek> k2gremlin: you can ask here
23:56 < k2gremlin> Thanks twainwek
23:56 < ossifrage> I have a go based https server that does end up going painfully slow (40MB/s) due to them only support hardware instructions I don't have (and it falls back to the shitty implementation)
23:57 < mawk> which instructions ?
23:57 < k2gremlin> I have a very basic assignment. Create a script that pulls a value from one file and divides it from a value pulled from another file. I understand that I would have to cat the information in but not sure how to make them a variable.
23:58 < koala_man> k2gremlin: you can assign command output to a variable with  myvar="$(mycommand)"  e.g. contents="$(cat filename)"
23:59 < k2gremlin> Yea.. I was going about it the wrong way lmfao.. lemme try to work that
23:59 < ossifrage> mawk, one sec I need to go look
--- Log closed Tue Apr 17 00:00:48 2018