--- Log opened Tue Apr 17 00:00:48 2018
00:01 < k2gremlin> koala_man, it works! :)
00:02 < k2gremlin> value1="$(cat file1)"
00:02 < k2gremlin> value2="$(cat file2)"
00:02 < k2gremlin> equals=$((value2 / value1))
00:02 < k2gremlin> echo $equals
00:02 < k2gremlin>      koala_man hows this? :)
00:02 < k2gremlin> Sorry for the enters... tried doing spaces to keep to one line
00:02 < koala_man> k2gremlin: looks good to me
00:03 < ossifrage> mawk, it is some of the crypto instructions. My desktop is a very old xeon
00:03 < koala_man> aes-ni maybe
00:04 < mawk> ah
00:04 < ossifrage> koala_man, yeah they only have the aes-ni implementation and none of the older versions
00:05 < ossifrage> The openssl implementation blows away the go version (on my hardware).
00:06 < k2gremlin> koala_man, I am guessing when doing scripts like this that using defined folders would be better. Something like "$(cat ~/<user>/file1.txt)" instead of just "$(cat file1.txt)"
00:06 < k2gremlin> or even $user ?
00:07 < k2gremlin> is $user a valid varible?
00:07 < zapotah> it is you define it
00:07 < zapotah> anythings a variable if youre brave enough
00:07 < koala_man> haha
00:07 < k2gremlin> lol... so how would you point to the current user?
00:07 < k2gremlin> like when doing folders.
00:08 < koala_man> k2gremlin: where do these files come from?
00:08 < k2gremlin> lets say you wanted to call a file from the current user folder
00:08 < k2gremlin> I know a lot of packages have hard defined folders.
00:08 < k2gremlin> but maybe there is a file in a user directory... how do you set that in a script?
00:09 < koala_man> conventionally, per-application settings are stored in hidden files in the user's home dir. for example, vim uses ~/.vimrc, ssh uses ~/.ssh/
00:10 < djph> k2gremlin: you mean how do you set a ~user/.config/yourscript configfile?
00:10 < k2gremlin> koala_man, so what you are saying is user specific stuff is just generally stored in the users root so ~/ would suffice
00:10 < k2gremlin> djph, something liek that
00:11 < k2gremlin> like
00:11 < koala_man> k2gremlin: yes
00:11 < ossifrage> The sad thing is that the go https code isn't able to saturate a wifi connection to an ipad, apache gets >50MB/s and go gets <35-40MB/s (same hardware)
00:12 < k2gremlin> So lets say the user is Mike. ~/Mike/Folder1/File1  is the file I want to call. However, Mike is not the name of every user obviously.. How do you make "Mike" a variable lol
00:12 < zapotah> there is no "user root"
00:12 < ozymandias> USER=MIKE
00:12 < zapotah> there is the home directory
00:12 < zapotah> which is defined in /etc/passwd
00:12 < zapotah> and can be referenced to with ~
00:12 < k2gremlin> zapotah, Ok tracking.
00:13 < o|o0^|> echo $USER
00:13 < zapotah> and that is a user-specific path _always_
00:13 < koala_man> k2gremlin: bash always* expands ~/ to the current user's home dir. you don't need to know the name of the user to refer to the home dir
00:13 < spare> echo $HOME
00:13 < koala_man> (* except all the cases where ~ is literal)
00:13 < zapotah> it needs to be escaped to be literal though
00:13 < imchairmanm> you can also do something like `id -u -n` if you just want the name of the current user
00:13 < djph> k2gremlin: $HOME/Directory1/File1
00:14 < k2gremlin> Ok so if you make a package and they expand it to their home.. it would be ~/packagename/file and packagename would be consistant. got it
00:14 < zapotah> unless defined in the path not in the beginning
00:14 < djph> ... or probably more appropriately, ${HOME}/[...]
00:14 < koala_man> zapotah: counterexample: echo dir:~/
00:15 < koala_man> $HOME is generally better in a script, yes.
00:16 < k2gremlin> koala_man, that dir: was a literal ~ lol
00:17 < anickname> hey
00:17 < k2gremlin> Yes.. I did just try to put that in my script file lmfao
00:17 < bnason> Nethogs keeps reporting a process receiving a lot of data from an amazon ip but it doesn't show any PID associated with it. This thing is eating up my bandwidth
00:17 < ossifrage> I just moved 100GB (linux -> AP -> ipad) and did not catch a single zero CRC error. So the problem is most likely on the verizon side. It would be useful if I could determine if the UBNT hardware is stomping on the CRC when it catches the error or is the packet being sent that way
00:17 < anickname> what is a good, minimal linux distro that I can use for running virtual machines
00:17 < bnason> Does anyone have any recommendations for figuring out what it is?
00:17 < anickname> people have recommended Puppy Linux
00:17 < bnason> It seems to pop up every minute or so and only stays alive for like 5 seconds.
00:17 < anickname> because it's relatively small and Ubuntu based, is this the best one
00:17 < k2gremlin> anickname, you want this linux distro to be the host of all the VMs?
00:18 < k2gremlin> or just a small VM to to put on a host for testing?
00:18 < ozymandias> anickname, use proxmox
00:18 < anickname> it's part of a software that I'm going to be distributing to people
00:18 < anickname> one piece of the software can only run in a Linux environment and since the majority of its userbase will be Windows users I need a minimalistic VM
00:19 < anickname> so one that basically doesn't take up much space or RAM
00:19 < k2gremlin> I see.. so you need a VM user solution and not a VM hosting solution
00:19 < zapotah> a vm is as minimal as you make it
00:19 < ozymandias> ah
00:19 < ozymandias> then use a minimal install of the distro you are best at maintaining
00:19 < k2gremlin> anickname, I am guessing these users are not linux versed and need a GUI?
00:19 < ossifrage> ethtool does report a large number of rx_transport_csum_bypassed counts, so that might be a clue
00:20 < mawk> the fail2ban iptables rules comes at the top of the table right ?
00:20 < mawk> otherwise it would be strange
00:20 < anickname> well this vm is going to run in the background
00:21 < anickname> the user doesn't need to interface with it, only the program
00:21 < ozymandias> anickname, use the enterprizey version of a distro you know how to maintain
00:21 < anickname> the only one I'm familiar with is ubuntu
00:21 < ozymandias> then there you gop
00:21 < ozymandias> go*
00:22 < anickname> well how do I make a "minimal" version of it?
00:22 < ozymandias> a minimal install of an LTS ubuntu
00:22 < ozymandias> selefct 'minimal' at the install time
00:22 < anickname> how large is that?
00:22 < ozymandias> and dont install anything extra
00:22 < ozymandias> no idea
00:22 < anickname> ok
00:22 < ozymandias> not a ubuntu guy
00:22 < ozymandias> but no gui, etc
00:22 < anickname> does it install like the g++ compiler?
00:22 < ozymandias> it ought to be pretty small
00:22 < anickname> im fine with no gui
00:22 < ozymandias> um....
00:22 < ozymandias> no
00:22 < ozymandias> its minimal
00:22 < spare> kernel and busybox embedded initramfs to boot to ash shell is only going to be about 2-3mb in qemu/kvm and doesnt really need updating if it isnt suid with no listeners
00:23 < anickname> does it install apt get
00:23 < ozymandias> ...
00:23 < ozymandias> i thought you said you could manage ubuntu
00:23 < ozymandias> yes, yes it installs apt
00:23 < anickname> I don't know it like the back of my hand lol
00:24 < anickname> ok cool
00:24 < ozymandias> ubuntu uses apt as a package manager
00:24 < anickname> yea
00:24 < anickname> i mean I wanted to make sure it installed the package manager lol
00:24 < ozymandias> so yes, it is installed.
00:24 < kuz3> would anyone happen to know if IPS screens(phone, tab) work better with rgb or bgr pixel formats?
00:25 < kuz3> i havent been able to find the answer anywhere
00:27 < luke-jr> anyone know how to get 5.1 channels out HDMI audio?
00:32 < kuz3> i think i found the answer, android uses RGB565 apparently, does anyone know anything more about this?
00:41 < nmschulte> kuz3: IPS doesn't imply rgb or bgr subpixel ordering
00:41 < nmschulte> kuz3: the pixel color encoding should have no impact on how "well" the device works, really.
00:42 < nmschulte> of course, if you're stuffing 12-bit color down a 6-bit (w/ dither to 8-bit) display... something is gonna be taking that color transformation load (possibly for free, by just killing lsbits)
00:44 < kuz3> im seeing what you mean as if i try to change the pixelformat at all it just doesnt seem to load now.
00:44 < nmschulte> how are you changing the pixel format?
00:45 < kuz3> i tried vncserver -pixelformat rgb565
00:45 < kuz3> i also tried vncserver -depth 8 and get nothing
00:45 < kuz3> client is RealVNC Viewer, it might be an issue with the client
00:46 < nmschulte> kuz3: you're blurring hardware/software stack lines, lol
00:46 < kuz3> is it overflowing the stack
00:46  * kuz3 laughs sad laugh 
00:46 < nmschulte> I would use -depth 24 (default) and -pixelformat RGB888 (default)
00:52 < designbybeck_> Anyone know about OpenWRT? Was trying to add 1.1.1.1 to the router. Wasn't sure if that is the DNS Forwarding in OpenWRT
00:52 < kuz3> nmschulte: it loads with your config, and it must be my imagination (if its the default) but its running smoother
00:52 < nmschulte> I do what I can.
00:53  * kuz3 hugs
00:56 < kuz3> my last problem probably wont have an answer, im hoping to get a BT mouse but im pretty sure the RealVNCviewer app wont work for right click with it when i do
00:56 < average> wow, trying to use /bin/mount or /sbin/mount.ntfs or ntfs-3g in an udev rule to mount a portable USB disk, and I'm getting "Transport is not connected". I've been trying for hours to feed it proper params, nothing seems to work..
00:57 < nmschulte> kuz, blueman-applet and blueman-manager (atop the BlueZ stack that comes w/ Linux).
00:57 < nmschulte> RealVNCViewer should work fine with it.
01:00 < kuz3> sweet. i hope so. ill have a $50 mobile pc without having to buy a laptop
01:01 < kuz3> that raspi b+ is starting to sound pretty nice
01:04 < Sonolin> I wonder if there's something like docker-compose for lsx
01:04 < Sonolin> s/lsx/lxc/
01:05 < kuz3> ty nmschulte
01:06 < qoxncyha> how do i count the number of occurrences of a search in `less`?
01:07 < snuggiest> I don't know about you guys but I'm pretty excited about Ubuntu 18.04. Seems like a really nice release so far
01:08 < nmschulte> Sonolin: docker-compose is like docker-compose for lxc.
01:08 < o|o0^|> snuggiest: what's your favorite thing about Ubuntu 18.04 ?
01:08 < Sitri> qoxncyha: You'll have to do that with something like grep -c
01:09 < Sonolin> nmschulte yea I guess I just want a docker alternative without Go, its annoying to have to rebuild every time
01:09 < nmschulte> I see.  Why are you building Docker?
01:09 < Sonolin> on Gentoo and like some customized USE flags
01:10 < snuggiest> o|o0^|: Mainly the new theme and minimal install feature
01:10 < snuggiest> I'm not a huge GNOME fan but this release seems pretty tempting. It's little things like those that I like in a distro
01:12 < jeffree> I don't like the fact that you have to sign into whatever to get a token to use the kernel live patch feature
01:13 < Sonolin> actually lxc might do 90% what I need, I guess I just need to dive into that directly one of these days
01:14 < nmschulte> jeffree: that's an Ubuntu feature?
01:14 < jeffree> I want gnome to be keyboard-navigable in a way like it was made to do it
01:14 < jeffree> nmschulte: yes
01:14 < nmschulte> Sonolin: good luck!  Docker is nice w/ it's overlay system and whatnots, and declarative config via docker-compose.
01:15 < Bashing-om> snuggiest: Have you tried the alternate wayland session ( hardware permitting )? ..I find wayland smoother and faster than the Xorg session .
01:15 < nmschulte> interesting.  I've stopped using GNOME because their workspacing solution is terrible now (multi-monitor/display).
01:15 < nmschulte> i3 and sway are my friends now.
01:15 < snuggiest> Wayland, on Fedora at least, is buggy as hell
01:15 < snuggiest> Even with Intel drivers
01:16 < jeffree> I long for the experience of always knowing what object is selected; highlighting should be very obvious but never is
01:16 < storge> sway?
01:16 < nmschulte> storge: http://swaywm.org/ -- https://github.com/swaywm/sway
01:17 < Sonolin> yea, I'll still be using it for all the servers nmschulte :)
01:18 < Bashing-om> snuggiest: Running wayland under ubuntu on old AMD platform .. here solid as a rock :)
01:18 < Sonolin> can even remote build them based on remote repo, I'm just trying to keep my laptop light
01:18 < nmschulte> snuggiest: yeah, I
01:18 < nmschulte> I wonder if the vid driver is really your issue, or some incompat. w/ compositing.
01:21 < storge> nmschulte: got a howto for getting that running on debian?
01:23 < snuggiest> Bashing-om: Happy for you man. Too bad it isn't the case for me :P
01:23 < snuggiest> Of course I'm judging it off of the live image with Fedora 27 and GNOME. It probably isn't entirely wayland's fault
01:23 < snuggiest> Or at all
01:24 < snuggiest> Last time I tried Wayland on Debian it was insanely smooth. Some applications just didn't work right though
01:24 < nmschulte> storge: https://github.com/swaywm/sway/wiki/Debian-installation-guide
01:25 < Bashing-om> snuggiest: "Some applications just didn't work right though" does remain :(
01:25 < nmschulte> storge: it's using Wayland, so be aware.  i3/i3gaps work great for X11 and XWayland.
01:25 < storge> i use xdm to login to openbox. i'm guessing the entire process is different if you're not starting up an x session
01:25 < nmschulte> storge: indeed.  I switched to sddm, which supports Sway.  Wayland is different, so facechoosers/login managers are different too.
01:25 < Voop> any wine users here
01:25 < snuggiest> It's pretty saddening to me that wayland isn
01:25 < storge> nmschulte: yes sorry i meant the whole process of running wayland instead of x
01:26 < snuggiest> hasn't been adopted sooner
01:26 < storge> nmschulte: yes sorry i meant the whole process of running wayland instead of xorg
01:26 < Voop> was wondering what to do when you get dll errors when trying to run something in wine
01:26 < Sonolin> wayland is great, as long as you use wayland-specific software
01:26 < snuggiest> I don't think the bugs are entirely wayland's fault. When a program does actually run it runs flawlessly. But when it doesn't most of the time the program doens't even start
01:26 < vezveth> bangin on the ceiling bangin on the ceiling keep it down :D
01:26 < storge> nmschulte: so what starts sddm :)
01:26 < nmschulte> storge: I run Debian Sid, and don't install a desktop (no task-desktop *).  I should have blogged about the process when I did it, I forget now.
01:26 < Sonolin> yea, that is definitely annoying snuggiest
01:27 < Sonolin> leads you down unnecessary rabit holes
01:27 < nmschulte> The most painful part was compiling sway and making the sway .desktop available.
01:27 < nmschulte> storge: systemd does, IIRC.
01:27 < storge> and if you don't systemd?
01:27 < nmschulte> s/systemd/<what_you_use>/
01:27  * o|o0^| gasps
01:28 < storge> ok
01:28 < nmschulte> :P
01:28 < nmschulte> startx from cli? -> "sway"
01:28 < snuggiest> I like systemd but having an init system as a dependency in somehting like your desktop environment is just baffles me
01:28 < nmschulte> erm...
01:28 < nmschulte> how else do you make the low-level bits go?
01:28 < nmschulte> the DE has to run upon _something_
01:29 < o|o0^|> setuid or file capabilities
01:29 < snuggiest> Before DE's never had an init system as a dependency
01:29 < nmschulte> it's a shame that some DEs are only supporting systemd, if that's what you're stating, though.
01:29 < nmschulte> come play w/ i3 and sway!
01:30 < storge> interesting that installing xwayland just now only installed xwayland; expected a pile of deps
01:30 < nmschulte> storge: you should brush up on how Wayland changes things.
01:31 < snuggiest> I love intergrating components together. Having everything work togeter is fine when the software is stable and programmed with care. But then comes the problem of having to develop a dependency or software to work with another piece while making sure it works with others
01:31 < nmschulte> https://wayland.freedesktop.org/xserver.html
01:31 < nmschulte> Wayland Compositor: sway.
01:32 < Sonolin> yea sway is awesome
01:33 < Sonolin> well not really, sway is *i3*
01:33 < Sonolin> ;)
01:33 < dell00> Sway took up too much resources on my computer :/
01:33 < dell00> So I switched back to i3.
01:33 < Sonolin> hmm interesting
01:33 < dell00> But also back on the crappy X11 server. :(
01:34 < Sonolin> yea I'm stuck on X for a while anyway for games at least, so I'm not feeling a huge push to wayland (until SDL and others get ported)
01:34 < dell00> Same.
01:34 < Sonolin> looking into either firejail and/or lxc in the meantime for sandboxing
01:35 < dell00> I'm waiting for Wayland compositors to be more optimized. Because sway just consumed twice the amount of RAM as i3 and always hogged 100% of my CPU.
01:35 < lovingninetails> 1202 packages to install... :(
01:35 < lovingninetails> This is gonna kill my HDD
01:35 < Sonolin> your video card drivers are working, right?
01:35 < Sonolin> ^^ dell00
01:35 < dell00> logingninetails: which package manager?
01:36 < lovingninetails> dell00, apt
01:36 < dell00> Sonolin: I have a fully functional radeon driver on Gentoo.
01:36 < lovingninetails> Debian Stretch
01:36 < Linkandzelda> are chroots security safe?
01:36 < dell00> lovingninetails: oh pbbt. You're fine.
01:36 < Sonolin> I see, that's weird, I don't remember anything similar but will have to give it another run to see
01:36 < dell00> Linkandzelda: Yes.
01:36 < lovingninetails> dell00, I'm so used to the speed of pacman xD
01:36 < dell00> lovingninedetails: I'm so used to the speed of Portage xd
01:36 < Sonolin> pacman spoils you and then you end up with 1202 packages to install ;)
01:36 < Linkandzelda> dell00: great
01:37 < o|o0^|> not by default they're not safe, if you just call "chroot" with nothing else is easy to escape
01:37 < dell00> ^
01:37 < Linkandzelda> o|o0^|: and what about "schoot -c name" ?
01:37 < o|o0^|> never heard of it
01:42 < mawk> chroot are just one piece Linkandzelda
01:43 < mawk> by their own they're not very safe
01:45 < snuggiest> Is upstart still being developed or has it been officially discontinued?
01:46 < mawk> Linkandzelda: the whole process is: get a mount point and install a minimal system in it, bind-mount the required devices into its /dev, create new cgroups/IPC/network/mount/user/PID namespaces, move your mount point to /, *chroot* into it, mount required filesystems like proc sysfs devpts etc., exec /sbin/init
01:46 < mawk> etc
01:46 < mawk> you call that whole thing an unprivileged container
01:46 < mawk> and *that* is pretty safe
01:46 < snuggiest> test
01:46 < mawk> a normal container, i.e. a privileged container where root inside = root outside is not very safe on its own
01:47 < dell00> ^
01:47 < mawk> for instance you can just use debugfs to browse the parent directories directly via the block device
01:47 < DLange> snuggiest: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ last news seom 2014, upstream changed to systemd, so ... usable but rather dead
01:48 < snuggiest> Has anybody had any experience with upstart? Was it bad, was it good?
01:48 < djph> snuggiest: it was "alright"
01:49 < DLange> it was simple and good at that, hence Google used it for a while (ChromeOS)
01:49 < DLange> if you look for simple these days, OpenRC is good
01:50 < snuggiest> Yeah, Debian dropped support in version 9
01:50 < snuggiest> Ubuntu in 17.10
01:50 < snuggiest> So pretty much RIP
01:50  * Psi-Jack grabs his ripper.
01:51  * snuggiest test
01:51  * Psi-Jack tests ripping snuggiest into shreds. :)
01:51 < djph> Psi-Jack: it's super-effective!
01:52  * snuggiest tests blocking Psi-Jack's path
01:52  * snuggiest wat do
01:52  * Psi-Jack watches snuggiest fail, miserably. :)
01:52  * snuggiest literally turns into God 
01:53 < jmgb4> Hey fellas, anybody here using pciepassthrough? I just had a couple of questions about it... curious about how dual monitors works with it
01:54 < snuggiest> Twitch is a very strange website. On a lot of distros it doesn't work but I don't think it requires any proprietary drivers
01:54 < Psi-Jack> jmgb4: Instead of asking to ask. Just go through and actually ask what you're needing. :)
01:54 < jmgb4> Psi-Jack I did, asking how dual monitors work with it
01:55 < jmgb4> I dont want to have one monitor for the vm and one for the environment. Seems pointless to me
01:55 < Psi-Jack> If you're passing through a PCIe device, I'd imagine it works just like native.
01:55 < Psi-Jack> Kinda the point of IOMMU.
01:56 < jmgb4> Psi-Jack What do you mean "id imagine it works just like native"?
01:56 < anickname> do you guys know how to underclock a CPU inside a virtual machine
01:57 < snuggiest> Why is Debian the main choice for distros to be based off of?
01:57 < Psi-Jack> I mean exactly what I said.
01:57 < anickname> like I have a 4GHz cpu
01:57 < anickname> is there a way to have the VM only allow max of 2GHz
01:57 < Psi-Jack> anickname: There's a way to limit how many cycles a VM is provided, defaulting, at least with qemu/kvm, to 1,000 cycles.
01:58 < anickname> Psi-Jack how do I do that?
01:59 < Psi-Jack> Well, what are you actually using?
01:59 < DLange> snuggiest: because it provides a very stable basis, reliable release processes and good license compliance
02:00 < djph> DLange: too bad it's all just RedHat now :|
02:01 < DLange> djph: nah, lotsa Debian these days even in corp world
02:02 < lovingninetails> Is it a good idea to run 'apt-get dist-upgrade -t=stretch-backports' on Debian Stable? I'm using an Intel grahpics card and I was thinking with the newer kernel and Mesa components in stretch-backports, my performance in games could potentially improve with newer drivers
02:02 < rypervenche> Too much Ubuntu there now :/
02:02 < anickname> Psi-Jack Ubuntu
02:02 < djph> DLange: I was taking a shot at them going to systemd
02:02 < rypervenche> lovingninetails: Nope. I wouldn't do that.
02:02 < Psi-Jack> anickname: Ubuntu isn't a hypervisor, nor a hypervisor management service
02:03 < anickname> oh sorry VMWare
02:03 < Psi-Jack> Can't help you.
02:03 < anickname> ok
02:03 < anickname> what if I switch to virtualbox
02:03 < DLange> djph: yes, that has meant suffering for two releases and probably one more, too
02:04 < Psi-Jack> I don't use nor support either.
02:04 < anickname> oh ok
02:04 < anickname> what do you use?
02:04 < Psi-Jack> qemu.
02:04 < anickname> ah
02:04 < lovingninetails> The 4.9 kernel is pretty old, is there a way to update it on Debian, something like the 'ukuu' utility for Ubuntu/Mint?
02:04 < anickname> cd Desktop/gentle
02:04 < snuggiest> Why is Red Hat the butt of a lot of jokes? Not talking about systemd, I've just heard a lot of things about them being big coporate
02:04 < DLange> Red Hat at least uses current systemd and has good (commercial) docs, Debian an older version and that means the good docs (Arch Linux) don't always apply
02:05 < anickname> didnt mean to type cd here
02:05 < snuggiest> did they do something in their past?
02:05 < djph> lovingninetails: apt-get install linux-whatever-it's-called
02:05 < Psi-Jack> What?
02:05 < DLange> lovingninetails: https://wiki.debian.org/HowToUpgradeKernel
02:05 < djph> lovingninetails: BUT, the whole point of Debian is that it's *stable* -- they find a good stable platform, and don't deviate much (only security patches really)
02:07 < snuggiest> How is Fedora these days?
02:07 < Psi-Jack> Pretty good. My #1 top recommendation.
02:07 < djph> RedHat
02:07  * snuggiest is secretly a Red Hat shekel collector
02:07 < DLange> great if you want to live on the bleeding edge and hate arch linux stupid management commands
02:07 < lovingninetails> yum is so slow though
02:07 < Psi-Jack> Fedora's cutting edge, not bleeding edge.
02:07 < snuggiest> They switched from yum to dnf
02:07 < snuggiest> A long time ago
02:08 < diogenese> dnf is nice to work with
02:08 < snuggiest> pacman is abysmal
02:08 < snuggiest> I've used Arch in the past. In fact I'm using it right now. The only thing keeping me here is the AUR
02:08 < Psi-Jack> pacman does definitely suck.
02:09 < Psi-Jack> LOL.
02:09 < snuggiest> what the hell
02:09 < Aph3x-WL> the AUR is the reason to avoid arch
02:09 < Psi-Jack> It's both, really. LOL
02:09 < snuggiest> Aph3x-WL: Haven't heard that before. Reasoning?
02:09 < snuggiest> What is happening
02:10 < Psi-Jack> snuggiest: Your pills are wearing off?
02:10 < snuggiest> Psi-Jack: What do you mean?
02:10 < snuggiest> I'm getting a shitton of chat messages
02:10 < Psi-Jack> Oh, well, say so first, next time.
02:11 < Psi-Jack> Do /umode +R
02:11 < snuggiest> Well that seemed to work
02:11 < Psi-Jack> Should read the /topic. :)
02:11 < snuggiest> Anyways, what's the problem with the AUR?
02:12 < Psi-Jack> snuggiest: Security. Lack of it. Anyone can do AUR, even people not fit to be able to do so properly.
02:12 < snuggiest> I thought they had quality control
02:12 < Aph3x-WL> LOL
02:12 < snuggiest> a dev told me on their IRC
02:12 < Psi-Jack> AUR? No.
02:13 < Aph3x-WL> they probably consider the voting system "quality control"
02:13 < snuggiest> *Sigh* One more reason for me to leave Arch
02:13 < Psi-Jack> They don't have their own IRC.
02:13 < snuggiest> Then what the hell was I on
02:13 < snuggiest> lmao
02:13 < Psi-Jack> Heh. I actually use Arch these days myself. Not Manjaro, not some other fork, but actual Arch.
02:14 < Aph3x-WL> we know because you mentioned you use arch
02:14 < Humatiel> although their isn't quality control in Arch your still reasonably sure that a popular package will be made correctly. If in doubt just check mailing lists/github etc
02:14 < snuggiest> The AUR certainly is convinient
02:14 < Psi-Jack> Aph3x-WL: snuggiest didn't know. :)
02:15 < notmike> I would use arch if it were more clear which pieces are missing from arch. So instead I just use the best distro: slackware.
02:15 < snuggiest> Slackware is fantastic
02:15 < snuggiest> Except for its "package manager"
02:15 < Psi-Jack> Slackware, dictatorship with ignorance. Still no PAM. :)
02:15 < notmike> Who needs a package manager? It's 2017
02:15 < snuggiest> No dependency resolution has more downsides than upsides. Gentoo gets it right with USE flags
02:16 < Psi-Jack> I prefer distros that actually have a community around them, not a dictatorship.
02:16 < Acheron> you mean like Mint?
02:16 < notmike> Oh and arch has that community? Hah!
02:16 < Psi-Jack> No.
02:16 < Psi-Jack> I mean like Fedora, CentOS, openSUSE, Arch, Debian, etc.
02:16 < Acheron> Mint just RoCkS !!
02:16 < notmike> Slackware has so much community it's crazy!
02:16 < snuggiest> Arch's community is one big circlejerk
02:17 < notmike> ^
02:17 < notmike> Kinda like ##linux
02:17 < lovingninetails> Not all of us are ass holes :)
02:17 < snuggiest> Some of us are dicks
02:17 < Humatiel> ^
02:17 < Psi-Jack> Some lack such appendages, too. :p
02:18  * Aph3x-WL is a dinosaur
02:18  * snuggiest Is an asteroid 
02:18 < diogenese> before or after the asteroid strike?
02:19  * snuggiest *notices ur species*
02:19 < Psi-Jack> snuggiest: "your" not "ur" for future self corrections.
02:20  * Aph3x-WL changes channel name to #grammar
02:20 < snuggiest> Grammar*
02:20 < Psi-Jack> Still don't know what grammar is it seems. :p
02:20 < Humatiel> When I started on linux I went the traditional ubuntu/mint etc route. Got some really poor advice from forums that resulted in a few clean images. The Arch community dislikes questions you can google but at least they do give advice AND the rationale behind it.
02:21 < snuggiest> The Arch community dislikes any questions
02:21 < Psi-Jack> Well, bad questions are bad. :)
02:22 < Aph3x-WL> arch....rational? i was banned from their channel for saying pulseaudio has issues
02:22 < snuggiest> LOL
02:22 < Psi-Jack> They don't ban for something so silly.
02:22 < Aph3x-WL> well they did, and the guy that banned me said it was for "going against the majority"
02:23 < snuggiest> Ubuntu 18.04 is looking good, Fedora 28 is looking good, everything is looking good these days. Agh!
02:24 < Humatiel> I always just direct people to "how to ask questions the smart way" by Eric Steven Raymond.
02:25 < snuggiest> The problem is that tons of people recommend Arch to total newbies
02:26 < Psi-Jack> snuggiest: Heh. That IS a problem. I refuse to even recommend Arch.
02:26 < Humatiel> fair, that is a poor idea. The average skill level of the population is somewhere between I "thank god I turned it on" and "why is the screen black"
02:26 < ananke> recommendations for arch in this channel will be met with vengeance [tm]
02:28  * triceratux doesnt run what he recommends, & doesnt recommend what he runs. standard linux
02:28 < snuggiest> How long do you have to be inactive to get kicked?
02:29 < gchristensen> triceratux: is standard linux a LFS-like thing?
02:29 < triceratux> gchristensen: nope its a gestalt
02:29 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Heh. I've recommended what I run, Fedora for example.
02:30 < gchristensen> I know what that means, but I don't know what that means :)
02:31 < snuggiest> Have you guys heard about the Linux distro called Deepin thats been found to be using trackers?
02:31 < Humatiel> source?
02:32 < Vin3> no trackers on deepin relax
02:32 < triceratux> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v25Dy66AtNI
02:32 < Vin3> but be careful if u have facebook
02:32 < snuggiest> https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=tllqWzO8Bqw&lc https://hooktube.com/watch?v=v25Dy66AtNI&t=1s
02:32 < snuggiest> Uses cnzz
02:32 < snuggiest> A chinese tracker
02:33 < snuggiest> Added in version 15.5. :(
02:36 < snuggiest> Thoughts?
02:38 < Vin3> wow didnt know that
02:38 < snuggiest> pretty sad
02:38 < Vin3> :(
02:38 < Vin3> I contribute with translations to ptbr
02:38 < Vin3> but no more
02:38 < Vin3> ;)
02:39 < snuggiest> It's basically google analytics but a bit worse. Not as bad as, let's say, using Windows
02:40 < dell00> ^
02:40 < dannylee> 8-)
02:40 < snuggiest> But still bad
02:43 < dell00> I used Deepin 3.0 a long time ago.
02:43 < dell00> It was an ambitious project and I liked it.
02:43 < dell00> But it's Chinese and the Chinese govt is notorious for spying.
02:43 < dell00> So I didn't use it as my desktop.
02:44 < xamithan> I trust chinese government more than my own government
02:44 < xamithan> They all the way across the world,  what they going to do to me
02:44 < snuggiest> What country are you living in
02:44 < dannylee> just cut there satellites
02:44 < dell00> The country with the hateful NSA.
02:45 < xamithan> So you trust your own countries OS that can actually get useful stuff more than a country that has no ties to you?
02:46 < dell00> I'd choose the former.
02:46 < xamithan> So you want the NSA to spy on you
02:46 < dell00> There's no escape from the NSA anyways, so who cares?
02:46 < xamithan> Cool
02:47 < dell00> Why live all your life running away?
02:47 < dell00> F&ck you NSA.
02:47 < snuggiest> You can prevent most of the bad stuff
02:47 < snuggiest> Easier than you think
02:47 < xamithan> I'm not running,  I just think it is dumb to not trust a chinese OS more than an american one,  if anyone has incentive to spy on its citizens it would be the OS of your own country
02:48 < dell00> snuggiest: I know. Such as PGP, using a computer before 2010, librebooted, etc.
02:48 < dell00> But still...
02:48 < dannylee> richard stallman is wright
02:48 < dell00> You're just doing this to run away from the NSA instead of enjoying computer software.
02:48 < snuggiest> Proprietary BIOS'es aren't that much of a problem aside from being proprietary. No **proven** spying
02:49 < xamithan> Even more ridiculous when you consider the majority of your electronics and household items is already made in China yet you won't use a chinese OS
02:49 < dannylee> mageia is made in france
02:49 < dell00> If it's proprietary I don't trust it. It's **very** common for proprietary programs to have malicious functionalities. - Dr. Richard M. Stallman
02:49 < snuggiest> That makes 0 sense xamithan
02:50 < xamithan> Is deepin proprietary ?
02:50 < xamithan> I thought it wasn't
02:50 < dell00> xamithan: no.
02:50 < snuggiest> It included Steam, Chrome
02:50 < snuggiest> Other proprietary stuff
02:50 < snuggiest> So yes it is
02:50 < snuggiest> Partially
02:50 < Vin3> I trust chinese government more than my own government
02:50 < dell00> But the distribution itself isn't.
02:50 < triceratux> ruh roh https://www.pcworld.com/article/3268944/security/microsofts-chip-push-continues-with-azure-sphere-securing-gadgets-with-chips-and-linux.html
02:50 < dell00> Vin3: seconded.
02:51 < meyou> do you guys live in DPRK or something
02:51 < Vin3> NSA reading this now?!
02:51  * snuggiest the Red Hat shekel collector
02:51 < snuggiest> Vin3: No
02:51 < xamithan> No they log it and read it later
02:51 < Vin3> yep. lol
02:52 < meyou> too easy
02:53 < meyou> @NSA_
02:53 < dell00> Vin3: but the NSA will store this log in their servers forever until the agency is nullified/destroyed.
02:53 < dell00> @NSA_ F&ck you.
02:53 < dannylee> its a great day too be alive..fedora 27 is great..and openSuse is almost great
02:53 < Psi-Jack> dell00: Kindly mind the language
02:53 < Vin3> ok dell00 lets do this
02:53 < Vin3> hauehuaehuahe
02:53 < xamithan> Which one is almost great dannylee,  tumbleweed ?
02:54 < dell00> dannylee: OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is more stable and more on the bleeding edge than Arch Linux.
02:54 < triceratux> dannylee: ah but 10 days & ubuntu lts will be truly great
02:54 < xamithan> Truly great with all the bugs it is going to cause
02:54 < dannylee> its true
02:54 < dell00> Yep.
02:54 < dannylee> i just need another computer
02:54 < RedHatShekelColl> Pay up
02:54 < ossifrage> fuck you vmware!
02:55 < Psi-Jack> ossifrage: You too, mind the language.
02:55 < dannylee> i have my copy suse 2018
02:55 < RedHatShekelColl> SUSE is a great distro
02:55 < dell00> ossifrage: I don't see anything wrong with vmware.
02:55 < RedHatShekelColl> But why use anything other than RHEL (Only 349$!) https://www.redhat.com/en/store/linux-platforms
02:56 < xamithan> rhel is free with dev subscription
02:56 < ossifrage> They magically decided to stop supporting my CPU, so now I have a vmware image that I can't convert and I can't boot up
02:56 < dell00> RedHatShekelColl: Why...?
02:56 < RedHatShekelColl> It was a joke
02:56 < Psi-Jack> dell00: Other than it's closed source, proprietary, and less efficient than qemu/kvm? ;)
02:56 < RedHatShekelColl> I'm snuggiest
02:56 < dell00> True.
02:57  * snuggiest has his cover revealed. Oy vey!
02:57 < Aph3x-WL> snuggiest: stop spreading misinformation
02:57 < phct> hello, im looking for Unix/Unix-like/Linux friendly hardware(desks,laps,phones,etc) free of proprietary software or compatible with free software(OS,BIOS,firmware,etc) something that is easy to replace stock or something that cames with free software preinstalled and that i can replace them if i want.
02:57 < phct> what are the bests Unix/Unix-like/Linux friendly hardware manufacturers? which hardware is the best to make a computer 100% free (free BIOS and OS)?
02:57 < dell00> phct: Trisquel/Parabola
02:57 < snuggiest> Can you not understand a joke? Is this like reddit where I have to put an /s at the end of every joke?
02:57 < Psi-Jack> phct: ##hardware
02:58 < dell00> snuggiest: I understood it as a joke when you first posted the ad.
02:58 < Aph3x-WL> snuggiest: the video about deepinOS being spyware was a joke?
02:58 < snuggiest> Not you dell00
02:58 < snuggiest> Not the deepin video though
02:58 < snuggiest> Why would it be?
02:58 < Aph3x-WL> that's what i was referring to
02:59 < Aph3x-WL> because it's not spyware?
02:59 < snuggiest> CNZZ is a known chinese tracker. No worse than google but uses http encryption
02:59 < snuggiest> so anyone can see who's connected to that server, and it connects automatically
02:59 < Aph3x-WL> the person that made that video is retarded and there have since been updates to the situation
02:59 < dannylee> some computer user just want there computers to look prety
03:00 < dannylee> i just want there 10 terminal
03:00 < dannylee> some computer user just want there computers to look pretty
03:00 < snuggiest> I believe you said that before
03:00 < dannylee> sory i just can`t spell
03:00 < lovingninetails> I installed absolutely everything in tasksel on Debian Stretch... Got sick of missing libraries for steam games
03:01 < snuggiest> It's fine
03:01 < snuggiest> If you want steam support use Ubuntu lovingninetails
03:01 < snuggiest> It's the only one officially supported
03:01 < lovingninetails> snuggiest, Dota 2 doesn't work on Ubuntu
03:01 < lovingninetails> It works on Debian though
03:02 < dell00> I play proprietary games such as TF2 and Dwarf Fortress only becasue they're **fun**
03:02 < snuggiest> Odd
03:02 < Psi-Jack> Quite odd. heh
03:02 < dell00> It's rare for a **fun** open source game to exist.
03:02 < luka_33> or literally any other distro
03:02 < luka_33> steam support isn't some mystical thing
03:02 < snuggiest> I have no issues against games being proprietary since they're only made for entertainment
03:02 < luka_33> That only comes with ubuntu
03:02 < dell00> luka_33 I have it working on Gentoo and Debian 9.2.
03:03 < snuggiest> But it's the only one officially supported
03:03 < dell00> :)
03:03 < snuggiest> So it'll naturally probably be more stable
03:03 < lovingninetails> My LXDE decided to get all fancy after logging into KDE and then back into LXDE haha
03:03 < luka_33> Yeah steam runs everywhere
03:03 < luka_33> surprise surprise linux users like games
03:03 < snuggiest> Wow? Really!
03:03 < luka_33> therefore linux devs support games
03:03 < snuggiest> But VALVE supports Ubuntu
03:03 < lovingninetails> RetroArch is great :)
03:03 < luka_33> eh Valve is uselss
03:04 < dell00> ^
03:04 < snuggiest> They made Steam
03:04 < lovingninetails> Ubuntu *is* Debian
03:04 < snuggiest> hardly
03:04 < lovingninetails> So technically they support Debian
03:04 < luka_33> They made steam over a decade ago
03:04 < lovingninetails> SteamOS is Debian
03:04 < luka_33> Now they make cosmetics
03:04 < luka_33> and shitty card games
03:04 < dell00> luka_33: at least they made amdgpu-pro, which is a **very** good driver.
03:04 < lovingninetails> Excuse me... Dota 2 is still being patched very frequently
03:04 < dell00> ^
03:04 < luka_33> They got it made, true; but they're very inactive these days
03:05 < snuggiest> lovingninetails: They don't provide an official way to get Steam outside of Ubuntu
03:05 < luka_33> I will admit I know little about AMD gpus and their drivers
03:05 < luka_33> My CPU is AMD but that's it
03:06 < luka_33> If they did a good job on that driver they deserve kudos
03:07 < ossifrage> Ugg, so I didn't bother to backup the tax data files last year outside of the vmware image (and vmware won't run on my old xeon)
03:09 < dannylee> IBM should make computer drivers for every one,,,
03:10 < dannylee> but mac is a bit of a stinker
03:12 < Humatiel> they do have good tablets though...privacy aside.
03:12 < dannylee> ya man
03:13 < phct> there is no free hardware then?
03:18 < phct> there is no free hardware then?
03:20 < ananke> phct: you going to repeat the same question over and over?
03:21 < snuggiest> Linux 5.0 - More lines removed than added. "13538 files changed, 627723 insertions(+), 818855 deletions(-)  which is probably a first. Ever. In the history of the universe. Or at least kernel releases."
03:21 < snuggiest> https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/4/15/201
03:22 < ananke> linux version numbers are absurdly stupid nowadays
03:23 < snuggiest> 13538 files changed, 627723 insertions(+), 818855 deletions(-). Wow. Just wow
03:23 < ananke> lots of legacy architectures have been removed
03:23 < Aph3x-WL> riscV is free hardware
03:24 < snuggiest> Yeah. I figured that was the main reason
03:24 < ryouma> hehe
03:24 < ryouma> which one of those deletions is the security hole?
03:26  * snuggiest freebsd laughs in distance
03:26 < snuggiest> i meant netbsd
03:31 < phct> ananke: who r u?
03:43 < ayecee> itym hu
03:44 < uplime> ho
03:44 < uplime> hoo
03:45 < uplime> updime: that accidental ho was for you
03:52 < ZombieChicken> Hello. ANyone here mess with nmh?
03:52 < Sveta> why
03:53 < ZombieChicken> Looking for some help setting up my .maildelivery file and not quite getting the documentation
03:53 < ryouma> none the wiser after googling nmh
03:53 < ZombieChicken> nmh, nmh maildelivery, checking the nmh mailing list archives...
03:57 < masber> morning, I had a server with sudo centos user and key authentication. I changed the /home/centos folder permissions to 777 (including .ssh) now I can't login as centos because it gives me a permission problem
03:57 < masber> I can login as a different user but it is not sudo
03:57 < Dagmar> You can't have the ~/.ssh folder be writeable by anyone else in any way
03:57 < masber> what can I do to restore access to the server
03:57 < Dagmar> ...which means if the parent directory is world-writable, you're locked out
03:57 < Dagmar> Login at the console, or login as another user
03:58 < Dagmar> You *may* be filing a support ticket.
03:59 < jml2> chmod 777 home is support ticket for stupidity
03:59 < ryouma> be nice
04:00 < tds> masber: did the centos user have a password? if so, you should be able to su centos to switch to it
04:06 < jml2> finished playing 'a story about my uncle' today...
04:06 < jml2> not bad for its 10 bucks tehehe
04:06 < malina> saltystew: the ENglish are forgiven for saying nome (as do I), even if I know that the original is Gee-nome
04:07 < malina> not only a hard G bt its in fact a long hard gee (originally)
04:07 < alexey-nemovff> hi folks
04:07 < Dagmar> Hehehe
04:07 < malina> but it's not like it's that fucking important.. I don't have a rant at yanks trying to express London with an actual English accent, nor do I of the French..
04:08 < ayecee> mind the fucking language please
04:08 < malina> I don't expect Germans to walk up and down all day trying to make an Englishman say Berlin properly either
04:08 < malina> or do I?
04:08 < malina> :D anyway.. toodles
04:13 < alexey-nemovff> hi folks
04:15 < ryouma> london is different uk and us?  gnome is different too?
04:16 < dannylee> c0000l
04:19 < iman> Hi, I want to run "who" and the just the first column of it, how can I do that?
04:20 < dell00> iman: you want to run "who" on what?
04:22 < masber> tds centos user does not have a password
04:46 < Aph3x-WL> gnome: because we all want our desktop to be short and mischievous
04:47 < triceratux> https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-beaver-beta.html
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> pyOpenSSL (16.2.0)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> pyRFC3339 (1.0)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> PySocks (1.6.8)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> python-apt (1.4.0b3)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> python-dateutil (2.6.1)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> python-debian (0.1.30)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> python-debianbts (2.6.1)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> python-gnupg (0.4.1)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> pytz (2018.3)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> pyxdg (0.25)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> reportbug (6.6.3)
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> shoot
05:01 < DetectiveTaco> sorry
05:03 < aluminium> how dare you interrupt the join/part spam
05:04 < P_B> I've beenin channels where they ban for 3 lines pasted.
05:04 < P_B> silly
05:06 < jim> DetectiveTaco, (let's see if this still works...) you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command by running "anArbitraryCommand | nc termbin.com 9999", and to include error messages, "anArbitraryCommand 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999"
05:06 < jim> it did work :)
05:06 < uplime> it works? ship it!!!
05:07 < DetectiveTaco> Yea sigyn told me lmao
05:07 < DetectiveTaco> But it was a accident sorry
05:07 < Dagmar> No, ship it if it _builds_
05:07 < jim> DetectiveTaco, no worries; you're ok
05:08 < Dagmar> Making surr it works is outside of the budget.
05:08 < uplime> Dagmar: but if builds then you have to support it
05:08 < Dagmar> Clearly you haven't worked with some of the companies that I have.
05:08 < Dagmar> Some of them don't even care if it installs.
05:08 < uplime> oof
05:09 < Dagmar> Yeah.  If anyone tries to get you to install Business Objects on Linux, just walk away.
05:09 < Dagmar> The things you will see cannot be unseen.
05:09 < uplime> luckily, my support is limited to a very specialized os
05:09 < jim> Dagmar, sounds pretty weird... what did it turn out they wanted?
05:09 < uplime> I still get stupid questions, but at least they're not average stupid questions
05:13 < hatp_> My mobo has two audio out ports. Is there a way I can tell my OS which one to use or is that controlled by the mobo?
05:14 < Sitri> Both pulse and alsa (depending which you use) will have a means to control them independantly.
05:16 < hatp_> Sitri: I wish. When I have the front one plugged in it says the rear is unplugged. When I unpug the front, it says the rear is plugged in. Feels like the mobo is controlling it
05:17 < Sitri> What?
05:17 < Sitri> That sounds completely normal.
05:26 < phct> hello
05:26 < phct> hello, im looking for Unix/Unix-like/Linux friendly hardware(desks,laps,phones,etc) free of proprietary software or compatible with free software(OS,BIOS,firmware,etc) something that is easy to replace stock or something that cames with free software preinstalled and that i can replace them if i want.
05:26 < phct> what are the bests Unix/Unix-like/Linux friendly hardware manufacturers? which hardware is the best to make a computer 100% free (free BIOS and OS)?
05:26 < [R]> you want a linux friendly desk?
05:27 < lovingninetails> o/
05:27 < Aph3x-WL> who doesn't
05:29 < Psi-Jack> phct: ##hardware, again.
05:30 < Psi-Jack> phct: And for crying out loud. Stop asking the same silly question for hours.
05:30 < dell00> ^
05:32 < lovingninetails> Psi-Jack, Is it as bad as "How do I tell my computer to blow itself up with sudo?"
05:32 < dell00> To me, yes.
05:32 < markasoftware> just an old thinkpad probably
05:33 < aluminium> one of those old internationals?
05:33 < dell00> More like a Thinkpad X40 all the way to X220.
05:33 < markasoftware> x220 works with libreboot?
05:33 < markasoftware> that's more recent than I expected
05:35 < dell00> markasoftware: yes. It works with libreboot. I *think* the X420 or 460 do as well.
05:35 < markasoftware> if the 460 does I'll be damned
05:36 < markasoftware> dell00: do you mean t420?
05:36 < dell00> Yes!
05:36 < dell00> I was thinking about the X-series all along!
05:36 < dell00> I was, alas, wrong.
05:36 < storge> anyone familiar with the intricacies of obconf and lxappearance? I have some apt-get installed gtk themes, only some of which show up in obconf, all of which show up in lxappearance--but applying them in lxappearance appears to have no effect. essentially there seems brokenness all around those two programs.
05:37 < storge> anything i apply in obconf does in fact change the theme, but since obconf is not showing all installed themes, it's no good to me.
05:41 < john_rambo> I read somewhere (didnt bookmark the link) that said the Midori browser is no longer actively maintained ....Is this true ?
05:45 < marktr> john_rambo: It looks like it may be dead, no news posts or updates since 2016 that I can find
05:45 < john_rambo> marktr: But surprisingly the channel #midori is still there
05:49 < blaztek> john_rambo: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~midori/midori/trunk/changes
05:50 < [R]> john_rambo: well if you go to their webiste, when wa the last release?
05:52 < john_rambo> blaztek: I am just a newbie ... Whats the meaning of those "changes" ?
05:52 < john_rambo> [R]: THey dont mention any dates
05:53 < john_rambo> [R]: They offer a PPA for Mint
05:54 < blaztek> Well, it’s the default browser of Elementary OS.
05:54 < blaztek> It’s last release was 10 months ago
05:54 < john_rambo> blaztek: I am planning to use it under Raspbian
05:54 < alexey-nemovff> Midori browser.. s**ks
05:55 < john_rambo> Chromium under the Pi is terribly slow
05:55 < Sveta> alexey-nemovff, in what sense?
05:56 < Sitri> <john_rambo> blaztek: I am just a newbie ... Whats the meaning of those "changes" ? <-- most of those are automatic, just as they say.  However there was an actual human update Feb 15th.
05:56 < Sveta> blaztek, my sister tried using elementary OS, it was okay but a lot of basic apps were lacking including irc client, so she did not keep it for long
05:56 < storge> i wanted to like midori but i've never experienced a browser that crashed as much as midori--across several installs and distros
05:56 < [R]> john_rambo: ok, and what date is the date of the package on the ppa
05:57 < alexey-nemovff> Sveta: everything.. loading webpages, stability; I dislike it
05:57 < john_rambo> [R]: cant find any dates >>>> http://midori-browser.org/download/mint/
05:57 < turbo64> everything is slow on the pi
05:57 < Sveta> i guess midori related bugs need to be reported to the distribution
05:57 < john_rambo> turbo64: True
05:59 < blaztek>  [R] I think 2016
06:00 < blaztek> Only two code changes in 2017
06:00 < [R]> https://launchpad.net/~midori/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
06:00 < [R]> theres tons of dates there
06:00 < marktr> Midori is evidently in active development apparently
06:00 < turbo64> the only browser thats not slow on the pi is probably dillo
06:00 < turbo64> or links
06:00 < Sveta> moaning at #midori or at its bug tracker would perhaps be appropriate
06:00 < marktr> +1 for Links
06:01 < marktr> Alternatively, the only browser anyone will ever need: the Emacs Web Wowser
06:01 < john_rambo> turbo64: But cant open Facebook with dillo
06:01 < Sveta> for those who are looking for a better web browser, take  alook at 'web outside of web browser' ('weboob'), it's an elegant solution that needs more help from testers, documenters, scripters and programmers
06:01 < marktr> john_rambo: Are you trying to use the pi as a standard like desktop computer?
06:01 < storge> or suckless surd
06:01 < storge> or suckless surf
06:01 < john_rambo> marktr: Yes
06:02 < marktr> Suckless does good stuff
06:04 < marktr> It's been a good while since I used Raspbian...if I recall it uses GNOME by default? May wanna switch that to like LXDE or Openbox to get something a bit lighter. Then try Surf or Epiphany (which I think is GNOME Web now?) if you need a GUI browser
06:05 < john_rambo> marktr: Raspbian uses LXDE by defaullt ... Need to look for Surf
06:05 < turbo64> ddos completed
06:06 < marktr> john_rambo: https://surf.suckless.org/
06:06 < john_rambo> Thanks
06:07 < marktr> Anytime
06:07 < alexey-nemovff> turbo64: lol
06:20 < paddy|> _o/
06:21 < turbo64> john_rambo: why would you go to facebook anyway
06:21 < turbo64> if you're in this channel you shouldnt be stupid enough to be using facebook
06:22 < Psi-Jack> turbo64: Ahem...
06:22 < marktr> ...
06:25 < turbo64> no way it could handle gnome
06:29 < storge> turbo64: i left facebook in 2011, said i hated what it was doing to social discourse and i didn't trust what they do with data. the very next year i learned Obama admin used facebook data to target voters (like EVIL TRUMPERS DID) and nowadays even facebook founders worry about how it's tearing apart social discourse. guess i was on to something.
06:31 < storge> and despite leaving it in 2011, i still get *daily* emails to rejoin. and over the years, the daily emails have evolved to tempt me with current coworkers and new girlfriends---which means they're tracking users even who left that long ago
06:31 < storge> in short, facebook can shampoo my crotch.
06:35 < _stuart> storge: it's kind of ruining society... :/
06:36 < storge> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/dec/11/facebook-former-executive-ripping-society-apart
06:36 < storge> yep, an early facebook exec agrees with you
06:36 < storge> anyway, linux.
06:36 < _stuart> hmm, will read later
06:36 < _stuart> thanks
06:37 < turbo64> i dont blame facebook
06:38 < turbo64> i just blame stupid people who willingly give all their personal information to some company just because all their friends are doing it
06:38 < blackflag_bfp> I just made my first bash script for setting up tmux. I am very proud!
06:38 < turbo64> well done
06:39 < marktr> blackflag_bfp: Got a github link?
06:39 < storge> +1 blackflag_bfp
06:39 < turbo64> you could just edit the config file though
06:39 < _stuart> i once wote an elaborate software configuration management suite in ksh
06:39 < marktr> I too like BDSM
06:39 < _stuart> hahaha
06:39 < _stuart> yeah.
06:40 < nowayy> I need help with ROS. The only other channel here has some 40 members. Is there a ROS channel in some other server with many users?
06:40 < blackflag_bfp> marktr: not familar with github yet except some documentation I found there
06:40 < nowayy> Not really a linux question but I don't know where to ask that
06:40 < turbo64> i dont understand why anyone would want to have a publicly viewable profile where the entire world can see who they are, who their friends and family are, where they work, and what they are doing at all times
06:40 < blackflag_bfp> turbo64: I saw that but didn't know how to make tmux just execute the default session without vreating another
06:40 < alexey-nemovff>  storge facebook's shadow profiles has been revealed: https://www.unocero.com/noticias/redes-sociales/perfiles-sombra-de-facebook/
06:41 < turbo64> in the 60s counterculture people didnt even believe in having a government issued ID in their wallet
06:41 < _stuart> turbo:I hate how you have to constantly keep going in to limit access
06:41 < marktr> blackflag_bfp: https://backlog.com/git-tutorial/ - user friendly guide on what git is and how to use it. Github just hosts your git projects
06:41 < alexey-nemovff> it's in Spanish but I know you can hadle it
06:41 < turbo64> now everyone has an online ID everyone can look at
06:41 < blackflag_bfp> oh cool, well my project os nothing to show off. First bash script I ever made. It looks just like everyone else.
06:42 < turbo64> blackflag_bfp: what i do is just have aliases in my bash settings
06:42 < turbo64> so i just type ta to attach
06:42 < turbo64> and td to detach
06:42 < marktr> New to shell scripting/programming in general I take it?
06:43 < blackflag_bfp> turbo64: been doing that a little too. I made ll= ls -l and la=ls -la
06:44 < turbo64> i think all i have in my aliases are tm=tmux ta='tmux attach' td='tmux detach' and vi=vim
06:44 < blackflag_bfp> I am brand new to this. I only recently disgarded my microsoft shackles
06:44 < turbo64> well if youve ever written bat files shell scripting is the same as that
06:44 < marktr> Except less horrifically obtuse
06:44 < turbo64> except with linux shells its a lot more intuitive and you can do a lot more
06:44 < turbo64> compared with cmd
06:45 < marktr> Or maybe PowerShell without trying to be bastardized Ruby
06:45 < turbo64> ugh powershell is annoying
06:46 < blackflag_bfp> mine just opens a 3 pane window with weechat, another 2 pane with lynx, and a 3rd with the TMUX man page
06:46 < turbo64> one thing i hate about windows 10 is they changed it so the context menu option for opening a terminal now opens powershell instead
06:46 < turbo64> and it takes like 5 seconds for it to actually open
06:46 < turbo64> then theres lag with just typing a basic command like dir
06:47 < turbo64> im sure theres a way to change it in regedit but i dont care enough to mess with it
06:48 < marktr> On the very rare occasions I boot into Windows I have not experienced that, are you sure it's a default nowadays?
06:48 < marktr> Alternatively, mod+r cmd
06:48 < turbo64> on mine it is
06:49 < turbo64> i dont really use windows much at all anymore
06:49 < marktr> Such is the path of the righteous
06:49 < xamithan> Sure you do
06:49 < turbo64> well linux on desktop has its own share of annoyances but ive managed to get around most of them
06:49 < marktr> I only boot into it to pull up Ableton and do some mixing and then back to Linux
06:49 < turbo64> thank god for the dash to panel gnome extension
06:49 < turbo64> if it werent for that id probably not even bother with linux on the desktop at all
06:50 < blackflag_bfp> I have win7 on dual boot for office so I can interface with the rest of the world :(
06:50 < turbo64> kde is such a broken mess these days i cant even use it anymore
06:50 < xamithan> You don't need office.  Most documents are PDF nowadays so formatting isn't an issue
06:50 < marktr> Find a DE that works for you man. If that's GNOME then have at but it took me some experimenting. I used KDE for a while and wound up switching to AwesomeWM and that's where I've been for a few years
06:51 < turbo64> like even in "stable" linux distros like debian stretch, plasma will crash constantly
06:51 < marktr> GNOME I find to be extremely broken
06:51 < turbo64> theres no stable version of it at all
06:51 < turbo64> oh yeah gnome likes to crash too but its not as bad
06:51 < turbo64> and a lot of hte time its caused by extensions
06:51 < blackflag_bfp> xamithan: well I worry about format issues since the corperate world uses word and excel
06:51 < marktr> Have you tried KDE neon? As I understand that's a stable distro with rolling release
06:51 < turbo64> kde neon is the opposite of stable
06:52 < turbo64> its ubuntu lts with the most bleeding edge latest kde on it
06:52 < marktr> I was under the impression they tested things before publishing them in the repo
06:52 < turbo64> it doesnt matter what version of kde you use though really, they all love to crash
06:52 < marktr> But I could be wrong, I haven't used it outside of a one off VM in a long time
06:52 < xamithan> Well most places are already moved to O365 so all that stuff is browser based
06:53 < turbo64> probably the most stable one is kde 4 which is still used by centos 7
06:53 < _stuart> yeah, I'm on o365
06:53 < turbo64> but that will be gone whenever rhel 8 comes out
06:53 < sauvin> I have been using KDE since the late 90s and haven't noticed that it crashes a lot.
06:53 < _stuart> I have to use IE to get at some stuff...
06:53 < marktr> CentOS can...what was it? Shampoo my crotch?
06:53 < marktr> _stuart: Time to find a new job if they make you open IE
06:53 < _stuart> marktr: lol... I'm close
06:53 < turbo64> well maybe its just me
06:54 < turbo64> but ever since kde 4 came out its gotten worse and worse
06:54 < turbo64> kde 3 was great, i loved that one
06:54 < blackflag_bfp> I tried to get the i3+xfce working but couldn't
06:54 < xamithan> I'd like to fire whoever decided IPMI would be a good idea using outdated java that you can't fix
06:54 < marktr> blackflag_bfp: You typically use i3 by itself, not on top of XFCE. That may add some extra complications
06:54 < _stuart> marktr; already made them give me multiple laptops anyway... so atleast I don't have to dualboot or VM or anything
06:55 < turbo64> i actually like most of the stuff gnome 3 changed, like doing away with desktop icons and start menus
06:55 < blackflag_bfp> yeah i found that out but Psi-Jack has his setup that way. The info page was for xubunut though and I am using debian
06:55 < turbo64> its just the task management thats stupid
06:56 < turbo64> having to go to the activities overview just to find a window
06:56 < marktr> Yeah the task management is asinine
06:56 < marktr> Although whenever I'm forced to use GNOME I just install Docky and call it good
06:56 < turbo64> dash to panel is good
06:56 < turbo64> ubuntu has its own dock that works ok
06:56 < turbo64> at least they were smart enough to keep that from unity
06:57 < turbo64> unity got a bad rap imo
06:57 < marktr> Unpopular opinion: I actually kinda liked Unity
06:57 < turbo64> they should have kept it
06:57 < sauvin> Unity was unusable.
06:57 < turbo64> people shat all over unity but vanilla gnome 3 is way worse
06:57 < blackflag_bfp> i3 is great so far, was using awesome before. I just don't like how teamviewer works in i3 paneling. Kind of wonky.
06:57 < marktr> blackflag_bfp: That's why I use Awesome, all the good shit from i3 + floating window mode. And that sweet, sweet LUA
06:58 < Psi-Jack> Ewwww teamviewer. Stop that. ;)
06:58 < marktr> I think people were mostly upset that GNOME 2 was going away. And to be fair, that's a reasonable thing to be upset about. GNOME 2 was awesome
06:58 < blackflag_bfp> marktr: yeah I am thinking of loading in awesome again and trying it some more
06:58 < Psi-Jack> The biggest problem with TeamViewer is it needs a part of it running as root. Not acceptable.
06:58 < turbo64> well theres still MATE
06:58 < sauvin> I have never seen a version of Gnome I could use.
06:58 < turbo64> but theres some things about MATE i dislike
06:58 < xamithan> Yeah but who uses vanilla gnome 3
06:59 < _stuart> I'm liking cinnamon a lot
06:59 < xamithan> Its all about those extensions
06:59 < blackflag_bfp> marktr: did you get the awesome-extra?
06:59 < marktr> How's Cinnamon? I've never used it
06:59 < turbo64> well if you need extensions to make it usable then the developers should probably take a hint from that
06:59 < xamithan> cinnamon is great and sleek
06:59 < turbo64> and maybe incorporate some of htose extensions features
06:59 < xamithan> They do turbo64
06:59 < _stuart> marktr: for me.. it's very intuitive. I've been avoiding desktop linux since about 1998, and as such I'm used to windows...
06:59 < turbo64> cinnamon uses more resources than gnome does last time i checked
07:00 < xamithan> There is a few extensions enabled by default
07:00 < turbo64> xfce was my favorite for a while but development is so slow and they still havent ported it to gtk3
07:00 < xamithan> Or maybe that is per distro,  but I always see a few enabled
07:00 < marktr> blackflag_bfp: I'm not on a Debian based system so I couldn't tell you. I just did pacman -S awesome
07:00 < turbo64> and by the time they do, gtk3 will probably be deprecated
07:01 < turbo64> its weird because its a reasonably popular de, yet they have like 10 people working on it
07:01 < _stuart> turbo: probably... doesn't concern me.
07:01 < turbo64> the mate devs ported gnome 2 to gtk3 pretty fast
07:01 < marktr> LXDE is pretty alright as well, although if I recall it's just openbox and some panel widgets
07:01 < xamithan> Yeah I run it on my 2009 laptop,  for some reason xfce didn't work
07:02 < turbo64> lxqt was interesting but the last time i used it it was pretty new and rough around the edges
07:02 < turbo64> idk what its like now
07:02 < turbo64> im hoping it becomes good enough to be a good lightweight and stable kde alternative
07:02 < marktr> XFCE is still pretty heavy compared to LXDE, but hardware isn't a super big concern for me nowadays
07:02 < blackflag_bfp> ok awesome is installed, be back soon
07:03 < turbo64> iirc lubuntu is switching to lxqt
07:04 < marktr> LXDE is on QT now?
07:04 < marktr> My god how the time flies
07:04 < _stuart> yeah...
07:04 < xamithan> systemd for the masses
07:04 < turbo64> lxde is still lxde
07:04 < turbo64> lxqt isnt replacing it
07:05 < turbo64> i think its a different team
07:05  * _stuart deletes his afterstep config backup from 1998
07:05 < turbo64> i think lubuntu wants to adopt it because people in general are sick of the gnome devs insanity and want to migrate to qt
07:05 < xamithan> I had a few backups on floppy disk.  I tried to get the data off them a few years ago and none worked
07:06 < Psi-Jack> lxde and something merged actually.
07:08 < _stuart> xamithan: hmm, I still have commodore 64 disks that seem to read fine...
07:11 < xamithan> I've heard the 5 1/2 were way better
07:11 < xamithan> To hold the data.  These were all 3.5"
07:13 < paddy|> 5,25" not 5,5
07:13 < Psi-Jack> 5.25" actually. :p
07:14 < paddy|> :D
07:14 < xamithan> I'm kind of worried since all my stuff on cd archived is getting up there in age
07:15 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, 5,25 in many parts of the world.
07:15 < Psi-Jack> Well, they're wrong! :D
07:15 < paddy|> oh no, the lag monster is around
07:16 < snuggerthanyou> hey everybody
07:17 < vyrus001> sup
07:17 < snuggerthanyou> So I've read this interesting article about package managers. https://fusion809.github.io/comparison-of-package-managers/#toc55
07:17 < snuggerthanyou> That's the summary of it
07:18 < snuggerthanyou> Very interesting read.
07:18 < CoJaBo> Is there anything I can do to a system (ubuntu bionic, server version) to make it show some useful info on a hard/non-interruptable lockup?
07:19 < [R]> you could check the serial console
07:19 < paddy|> snuggerthanyou: nice finding
07:19 < CoJaBo> I don't have a cable for the serial header, nor anything to log its output if i did :/
07:19 < [R]> well, guess you're SOL then
07:19 < snuggerthanyou> What's your guys's favorite package manager? (regardless of the distro itself)
07:20 < [R]> snuggerthanyou: none?
07:20 < [R]> rofl
07:20 < CoJaBo> Currently considering this commandline: iommu=soft amd_iommu=off nmi_watchdog=1 panic=30 loglevel=9        and blacklisting the nouveau module;  is there anything more/different I can try?
07:20 < [R]> snuggerthanyou: any sane one... its all the same crap
07:20 < pppingme> CoJaBo new server? old server new problem?
07:20 < snuggerthanyou> Not really. Not all package managers are created equal is what I've learned lately
07:20 < [R]> i said "any sane one"
07:20 < snuggerthanyou> I've been having distrohopping fever
07:21 < azarus> snuggerthanyou: apk has proven my favorite as a binary package manager
07:21 < [R]> <package manager
07:21 < [R]> <package manager> install package
07:21 < [R]> done
07:21 < CoJaBo> pppingme: It's fairly new, but has been stable for a month or 2 before crashing twice in 2 days now
07:21 < azarus> portage as a source package manager
07:21 < pppingme> CoJaBo new load on server?
07:21 < snuggerthanyou> azarus: That's from alpine, right?
07:21 < azarus> snuggerthanyou: yup and portage from gentoo
07:22 < CoJaBo> pppingme: Nothing should have changed; during the stable period, it was mostly idle; no new installs, not even updates, no reboots, etc. Just crashed out of nowhere
07:22 < blackflag_bfp> I can't decide waht I like better i3 or awesome
07:22 < azarus> (although I don't use gentoo that much anymore)
07:22 < pppingme> "was mostly idle" so now it has more traffic or usage?
07:22 < CoJaBo> Previous crashes were caused by buggy iommu support; adding iommu=soft fixed that issue tho
07:22 < snuggerthanyou> My favorite is currently dnf. The commands are very consistent with naming. About to try zypper again though
07:23 < blackflag_bfp> one thing I have found is If I kill a tmux session with weechat still running I get an issue trying to restart weechat
07:23 < azarus> zypper and dnf are very verbose about what they'll do, that's nice
07:23 < azarus> a bit complicated, but still cool.
07:23 < CoJaBo> pppingme: It has almost no traffic/usage, wasn't being used at all at the time of the crash, and was running even less after the first and before the second crash
07:24 < CoJaBo> pppingme: I did update it after the first crash; but the second crash happened in the same way; complete freeze, nothing written to screen console or logfiles on disk
07:24 < pppingme> CoJaBo random hard locks are almsot always heat or power issues
07:24 < azarus> blackflag_bfp: maybe try to quit weechat cleanly
07:24 < pppingme> is this a server grade machine?
07:24 < blackflag_bfp> azarus: yeah that is what I am thinking
07:25 < CoJaBo> It's desktop/home grade. System is running very cool, and PSU is brand new
07:25 < pppingme> CoJaBo are you overclocking or overvolting anything for any reason?
07:26 < CoJaBo> Nope; only BIOS settings changed were enabling SATA hotplug and virtualization
07:26 < pppingme> CoJaBo what video card is in it?
07:26 < CoJaBo> 2d:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GT218 [GeForce 8400 GS Rev. 3] (rev a2)
07:27 < CoJaBo> It seems to be loading the nouveau driver for the console, I'm planning to blacklist that to see if it makes any difference
07:28 < CoJaBo> If nothing else, it'll hopefully avoid power-cycling the monitor halfway thru bootup, which is annoying anyway..
07:28 < pppingme> if you want to play wiht that first, go for it, but what I'd look at is two things..  I'd swap PS's, even though that one is new, then I'd re-seat the fan on the cpu
07:29 < CoJaBo> Temps and fan speed point at it not being a heat issue; and I don't even have a spare PSU to try
07:29 < pppingme> you have a volt meter to check all voltages while its booted up?
07:30 < CoJaBo> Yep; they're almost exactly nominal
07:31 < CoJaBo> The PSUs I've had fail all either had ripple large enough for the meter to pick up, or were more than 15% off on their voltages
07:33 < CoJaBo> I've never even actually had this kind of lockup before on a linux system other than a laptop, usually then due to power-save issues :/
07:59 < snuggerthanyou> How many of you watch bryan lunduke?
08:07 < Zer0cool> snuggerthanyou: me
08:13 < Psi-Jack> I pretty much consider Bryan Lunduke to being pretty much a complete moron.
08:14 < [R]> oh snap
08:14 < Zer0cool> Psi-Jack: unfortunately i have to agree with you there for the most part
08:15 < Zer0cool> he's so stubborn on not using https
08:15 < lovingninetails> OwO
08:15 < Psi-Jack> ^ That. LOL
08:15 < [R]> hes got $2,076/mo on patreon...
08:15 < [R]> he must be doing something right
08:15 < Psi-Jack> Even morons can make money.
08:15 < [R]> although 2k a month is pretty pitiful
08:16 < snugger> THINK FAST: Bleeding edge or cutting edge
08:16 < lovingninetails> Neither
08:16 < lovingninetails> Debian stable
08:16 < snugger> If you didn't have the choice
08:17 < uplime> why don't I have a choice?
08:17 < lovingninetails> I'd choose not to use a computer
08:17 < lovingninetails> Pen and paper :)
08:18 < Psi-Jack> snugger: You have a choice. You always have a choice.
08:18 < snugger> Scenario: You don't
08:19 < Psi-Jack> LOL. "So many revisions of https" Bzzzz. Bryan Lunduke == Moron. heh
08:19 < storge> anyone running etherape in stretch?
08:19 < Psi-Jack> storge: Are you?
08:20 < storge> Psi-Jack: well i would...
08:20 < storge> ~ > apt-cache search etherape
08:20 < storge>  ~ >
08:20 < Psi-Jack> Better to ask your actual real question, than ask to ask or poll blindly.
08:20 < storge> and yet: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/gnome/etherape
08:20 < azarus> question for #debian, I believe
08:20 < snugger> wh-what exactly is etherape
08:20 < snugger> and what's an ethe
08:20 < azarus> EtherApe. it is.
08:20 < snugger> Oh lmao
08:21 < storge> well it's obvious now from what i pasted. etherape is in stretch according to weblinke, but i can't find it in apt with stretch repos
08:21 < azarus> Traffic monitoring tool.
08:21 < lovingninetails> Actually no it's not a question for there azarus
08:21 < lovingninetails> This channel covers *all* distros
08:21 < Psi-Jack> Yes, but distro-specific questions can still be directed to their respective channels, especially for distro-specific things, like... Repository issues. :)
08:22 < storge> i've seen so many people ask debian repo stuff here before, but ok
08:22 < storge> it's a fair point
08:22 < Psi-Jack> Sure. It's just that you might get better more specific help in their channel. ;)
08:23 < Psi-Jack> Course, OFTC's #debian, the official channel, is not always very active, though the one here on Freenode tends to be pretty active.
08:23 < storge> unfortunately that channel on freenode is mostly strutting peacocks
08:23 < storge> i'll check oftc
08:23 < Psi-Jack> "strutting peacocks?"
08:24 < storge> debian channel on freenode, almost every time i went for years, was chock full of awfully insecure personalities
08:24 < azarus> "muh stability" ;P
08:24 < storge> manifesting as strutting peacock pedants
08:24 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. Well, that's anywhere. :p
08:25 < storge> yeah but that one especially
08:25 < azarus> Certainly not.
08:25 < azarus> There are channels with sane, polite people ;)
08:25 < storge> but i'll ask in oftc
08:25 < storge> azarus: some indeed
08:26 < lovingninetails> Furries
08:26 < Psi-Jack> I know, I recently tried to ask about cloud-init stuff in #debian for Debian 8. Simply because I mentioned the host (not the guest I was actually trying to get help for mind you), they just refer to proxmox with their bot. I corrected the ignorant one.
08:26 < storge> hehe
08:27 < [R]> lol
08:27 < Psi-Jack> As for OFTC #debian, I got zilch.
08:27 < masber> good afternoon, I am trying to delete a logical volume but I am getting this message --> Couldn't create temporary archive name.
08:27 < masber> I don't have much free space, is there anything else I can do?
08:27 < azarus> masber: what command are you issuing?
08:27 < Psi-Jack> Turns out mostly it's just a cloud-init versioning issue. 0.7.7 doesn't try to read network-config off iso9660 NoCloud, and that's all that the current Proxmox VE CloudInit Drive build.
08:27 < masber> lvremove
08:28 < masber> azarus, sudo lvremove /dev/cinder-volumes/volume-550af605-3ac3-455c-9bb5-795b4b12c127
08:28 < azarus> masber: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/389539/lvm-couldnt-create-temporary-archive-name/389552
08:29 < Psi-Jack> azarus: You didn't read that page at all, did you?
08:29 < azarus> Psi-Jack: most of it
08:30 < Psi-Jack> lvextend != lvremove. :)
08:30 < azarus> most likely out of space in /etc/lvm/archive
08:30 < azarus> Psi-Jack: I assume you didn't read either
08:30 < Psi-Jack> Though, lvremove does have -An.
08:30 < azarus> second answer
08:30 < azarus> jeez, quick to critizise
08:31 < Psi-Jack> Just sayin. lvextend is not lvremove. :)
08:31 < azarus> Of course. I can read.
08:31 < Psi-Jack> Kinda a huge difference. :)
08:31 < azarus> Still. I believe he ran out in /etc/lvm/archive.
08:31 < azarus> ran out of free space*
08:31 < azarus> Every transaction needs space.
08:32 < Psi-Jack> cinder... cinder.. Oh, openstack cinder?
08:33 < Psi-Jack> Eh, time to sleep anyway. :)
08:33 < LissajousPattern> sleep well
08:33 < azarus> g'night
08:34 < masber> yes openstack cinder
08:34 < masber> azarus, didn't work https://bpaste.net/show/98a3d49fbcd1
08:34 < azarus> masber: what does `df` and `dmesg` tell you
08:37 < CoJaBo> So, nmi_watchdog doesn't seem to be supported by this system; is there anything else I can try to debug hard-lockups?
08:37 < masber> azarus, https://bpaste.net/show/b95c6c85ac4b
08:38 < [R]> CoJaBo: serial console
08:38 < azarus> masber: you're out of space in /
08:38 < azarus> make some space, try again
08:38 < masber> yes
08:39 < masber> I don't have anything I can delete, I cleared the logs already :(
08:39 < nng> Hi, it's any ready application/daemon to restart service after change in configure file?
08:39 < masber> and there is no other files I can delete either
08:39 < CoJaBo> [R]: How likely is that to work? I'm not even sure where to find the cable, and even if I can find something, I'm going to have to order it online :/
08:39 < masber> how much space do you think I need extra?
08:39 < [R]> CoJaBo: you said is t here anytig else... that is the anythng else
08:40 < azarus> masber: not a lot? im sure you can clear the package manager cache
08:40 < masber> oh
08:40 < masber> ok didn't thought about htat
08:40 < CoJaBo> [R]: yes, but is it likely to work, considering the amount of effort it's going to take to add a serial port to this system..
08:40 < [R]> how should i know
08:40 < [R]> you havne't really said anytihng of consequence to begin with
08:41 < azarus> masber: also next time, don't let your / run full
08:41 < azarus> always overprovision a bit
08:41 < CoJaBo> [R]: Random complete lockups; nothing printed to screen, no response to keypresses. Even the cursor stops blinking
08:41 < azarus> or you'll get into lots more sticky situations like this
08:41 < CoJaBo> Nothing is written to /var/log
08:41 < [R]> well of course, how would it write to disk if it was locked up?
08:42 < CoJaBo> [R]: The concern now, I guess, is "how would it write to serial if it was locked up" >_>
08:42 < [R]> kernel panics will be handled by an interrupt
08:42 < azarus> it can write the panic line to serial
08:44 < CoJaBo> azarus: I'm concerned about the odds of it being able to do that tho if it can't write to screen :/
08:44 < CoJaBo> I've never had a kernel panic that didn't get written to screen before
08:45 < [R]> the screen is irrelevent
08:45 < storge> well you won't know til you try, and fortune favors the bold, and their ain't no such thing as a free lunch
08:45 < azarus> CoJaBo: 99% it'll write to serial
08:45 < azarus> 99% sure*
08:45 < Triffid_Hunter> CoJaBo: how about netconsole?
08:46 < sadbox> what Triffid_Hunter said
08:46 < LissajousPattern> ^
08:46 < Triffid_Hunter> CoJaBo: you'll never get hard panics in syslogs because the kernel won't write to disk when its internal state is inconsistent, to avoid accidentally corrupting your filesystem. it'll quite happily talk to network devices in polled mode though
08:47 < storge> that's the tasty sauce right there
08:47 < LissajousPattern> tastes like chick-un
08:48 < talx> hey guys
08:48 < LissajousPattern> hi
08:48 < storge> When both pairs of the deflection plates (horizontal deflection plates and vertical deflection plates) of CRO (Cathode Ray Oscilloscope) are connected to two sinusoidal voltages, the patterns appear at CRO screen are called the Lissajous pattern.
08:48 < talx> I've got an unused pizza computer
08:48 < LissajousPattern> storge, cool huh...?
08:48 < talx> to do what I want with in work
08:49 < talx> I'm thinking of making it a backup for the existing server I'm working with
08:49 < storge> LissajousPattern: it sure turns my horizontal deflection plate to vertical!
08:49 < sadbox> talx: mine crypto, problem solved
08:49 < [R]> talx: well that sounds boring
08:49 < talx> what would be a good method
08:49 < Triffid_Hunter> storge: yeah I once stripped down a black and white TV and connected the yokes to an audio amp to generate lissajous patterns
08:49 < LissajousPattern> hahaha
08:49 < CoJaBo> Triffid_Hunter: I'll add that awhile since it doesn't require parts shipped from china lol.. How likely is it netconsole will log stuff that doesn't make it to screen?
08:49 < sadbox> CoJaBo: very likely
08:49 < Triffid_Hunter> CoJaBo: it's certainly worth a shot if your graphics driver is what's dying
08:49 < LissajousPattern> storge, thanks. I have not laughed like that in a while.
08:50 < CoJaBo> It's a server, no GUI installed, so I'd certainly hope it's not >_>
08:50  * storge tips his hat
08:50  * LissajousPattern puts a doll hair in storge's hat
08:51  * snugger tips his red hat™
08:51 < CoJaBo> It is loading nouvau tho; I tried to disable it, but doing so spins up the GPU fan to crazy RPMs
08:51 < storge> a doll hair? why not a hundred doll hairs?
08:51  * storge doesn't understand
08:51 < LissajousPattern> sure thing
08:52 < LissajousPattern> one million doll hairs
08:52 < CoJaBo> I prefer chewed-tokens.
08:52 < storge> i might need a bigger hat but no problem
08:52 < CoJaBo> (a reference I'm sure nobody will get <_<)
08:53 < storge> CoJaBo: you're not talking about your perky pat
08:53 < ayecee> tfw you tell an inside joke and you're the only one inside
08:53 < CoJaBo> wat
08:54 < storge> CoJaBo: (another reference no one will get)
08:54 < CoJaBo> ayecee: I tried to explain it once, and gave someone a black-eye in the process
08:56 < storge> CoJaBo: me too, but it was a snowshoe in the keester
08:56  * storge is lying
08:56 < ayecee> don't ruin the moment
08:56 < CoJaBo> I can at least say I injured someone by pun alone. lol
08:56 < ayecee> with truth
08:57 < redhatshekels> I have a joke for you guys. I'm not sure if you want to hear it though
08:57 < ayecee> probably shouldn't tell it then
08:58 < storge> tell us, so that we may Laugh Out Loud
08:58 < redhatshekels> It's nothing edgy
08:58 < rangergord> Anyone here using Ubuntu 18.04, who was previously on 16.04? How tyou liiking it?
08:58 < LissajousPattern> man my internet connection sure is inconsistent since I stopped paying the bill
08:58 < Aph3x-WL> LissajousPattern: :D
08:58 < storge> heh
08:58 < redhatshekels> Okay. No matter how many times I man emerge I'm still a virgin
08:58 < rangergord> huh?
08:58  * storge slow claps
08:58 < masber> azarus, ok, now I could successfully run lvremove -An but df does not show any extra space ...
08:58 < rangergord> I man emerges?
08:58 < redhatshekels> hehe...get it?
08:58 < rangergord> I don't
08:58 < redhatshekels> ...emerge? the package manager?
08:58 < redhatshekels> man emerge. manual for emerge?
08:59 < rangergord> oh...is that something non-Ubuntu users use?
08:59 < rangergord> I'm too cool for that
08:59 < redhatshekels> no its what /g/ users use
08:59 < storge> i got it. it was very clever. how's that working out for you? being clever.
08:59 < rangergord> storge: do you think that movie could've come out today, and not be blasted by critics?
08:59 < storge> totally blasted
09:00 < CoJaBo> rangergord: Running it now; it seems to have issues with either ryzen, or my videocard, or something else. random almost-undebuggable lockups :/
09:00 < storge> any day after 911 really
09:00 < azarus> masber: show the output of `pvs`, `vgs` and `lvs`
09:00 < azarus> (maybe get acquainted to the LVM commands. You'll need them)
09:00 < rangergord> CoJaBo: I run Linux in VMs on a Windows laptop, so I'm not worried about drivers issues. What about the UI, how do you feel it compares to Unity in 16.04?
09:01 < masber> azarus, https://bpaste.net/show/9ac4d9e5bbdd
09:02 < azarus> masber: use lvextend to extend the one you're running out of space one
09:02 < azarus> on*
09:02 < LissajousPattern> well I officially have 10 more days of "free" internet so after that plan B will take effect
09:02 < CoJaBo> rangergord: I'm running the server and xubuntu variants; haven't yet tried kubuntu (only machine available is my main laptop, so I'm waiting for stable), and I've always hated gnome so ubuntu desktop is out
09:02 < CoJaBo> For the record, I also hate XFCE, but it's the only thing that'll run on that system (a pentium 4 lol)
09:02 < masber> azarus, ?? I want to free up space on the host
09:03 < masber> sorry Im not sure I understood
09:03 < storge> CoJaBo: plenty of things slimmer than xfce
09:03 < CoJaBo> storge: Lubuntu bionic dies with shader errors
09:03 < masber> I want to delete logical volumes to I can make more free space on the host
09:04 < storge> openbox with compton, if you need compositing
09:04 < CoJaBo> (as did Kubuntu on that attempt)
09:04 < storge> or if you want a tiler, try i3 or spectrwm if it exists, and is ratpoison still around?
09:04 < azarus> masber: then do so?
09:04 < LissajousPattern> CoJaBo, so you are trying to run the latest kernel with the pentium 4?
09:05 < LissajousPattern> are you sure its still being supported?
09:05 < azarus> it should be
09:05 < azarus> it's all x86 anyway
09:05 < storge> it should be
09:05 < azarus> has a MMU, should work
09:05 < CoJaBo> LXDE also made me want to literally peel off my fingernails to stab out my eyes, last I used it; it's soo much worse than XFCE, which itself I consider to be a horrid worse-than-WinME-level  user experiance
09:05 < masber> azarus, so I deleted 2 logical volumes with lvremove -An but df does not show any more free space
09:05 < LissajousPattern> I had an issue were the atom processor in my netbook was no longer supported therefore having to revert to an earlier kernel
09:05 < azarus> masber: which "free space" are you referring to
09:06 < JimBuntu> enjoy the last 10 days LissajousPattern
09:06 < azarus> physical? logical?
09:06 < LissajousPattern> until I figured it out kernel panics right and left
09:06 < storge> CoJaBo: still plenty more slimmer options than those. just less and less mousey-clicky the slimmer you go
09:06 < masber> azarus host free space from running df command
09:06 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, i will thanks
09:06 < azarus> masber: well then you have to extend your lv
09:06 < CoJaBo> LissajousPattern: The bionic kernel is rock-solid on the P4; that system has been running for several months without a single crash, while the ryzen system running the server distro crashes weekly or more :/
09:06 < azarus> masber: im not entirely sure you understand how lvm works
09:06 < LissajousPattern> I will still have internet just not through my typical ISP
09:07 < storge> LissajousPattern: packet radio ?
09:07 < masber> azarus, extend lv means it will take more space?
09:07 < LissajousPattern> CoJaBo, ah
09:07 < LissajousPattern> storge, I am a ham
09:07 < storge> LissajousPattern: me too
09:07 < LissajousPattern> cool
09:07 < azarus> masber: suppose so, if you mean what you think you mean.
09:07 < CoJaBo> LissajousPattern: The main issue with running new distros on a 32-bit machine isn't the 32-bit, it's that it's difficult to get a gfx card new enough that's still AGP lol
09:07 < LissajousPattern> I do mainly voice though
09:08 < JimBuntu> CoJaBo, AGP? Seriously?
09:08 < LissajousPattern> I am in the process of some pretty dramatic life changes right now so I have had very little time for radio
09:08 < storge> LissajousPattern: i should say i have a ham license, i haven't touched it in a while, got out of habit. but i was just thinking of buying new kit soon.
09:08 < CoJaBo> JimBuntu: It is a pentium 4, so.. yeh :P
09:08 < JimBuntu> heya LissajousPattern, HAM here too :-)
09:08 < CoJaBo> Firefox runs amazingly well on it
09:08 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, nice
09:08  * cheapie has some P4 boards here with PCIe :P
09:08 < LissajousPattern> storge, yeah i have various radios here
09:09 < CoJaBo> cheapie: Are they the 64-bit version tho?
09:09 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, I have spent more of my life as a ham than not
09:09 < LissajousPattern> quite a few sdr receivers and some old stuff too
09:09 < cheapie> CoJaBo: Nope, 32-bit.
09:09 < CoJaBo> cheapie: Weird combo lol
09:09  * cheapie nods
09:09 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, that is awesome
09:09  * JimBuntu has hand soldered a few sdr receivers together from components... there didn't use to be an affordable choice.
09:10 < CoJaBo> I'd imagine there aren't many of those; I don't have any 32-bit machines that can run any version of 18.04 Lubuntu or Kubuntu
09:10 < LissajousPattern> yeah a good old fashioned tayloe detector can be impressive
09:10 < CoJaBo> And my 32-bit pile is nearly to the ceiling now
09:11 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, I myself am also an avid homebrewer
09:11 < JimBuntu> We use what we have, and we enjoy every minute. Kinda like those 32bit machines CoJaBo talk about.
09:11 < azarus> I just want a SPARC machine
09:11 < LissajousPattern> in fact its my favorite part of the hobby
09:11 < JimBuntu> azarus, lemme check the attic, I should very well have one up there
09:11 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, oh yeah its all about learning and having fun
09:11 < storge> azarus: i once had a stack of sparcstation 5's, ran debian for sparc on them. didn't do anything but make a network and teach myself stuff with it, but it was fun
09:11 < cheapie> I only have a handful of 32-bit boxes left - a few of those P4s (some AGP some PCIe), a K6-2, two PIII-based cash registers, a fairly boring PIII-based desktop, and a dual-PIII server.
09:12 < JimBuntu> The issue for me LissajousPattern was making those super long 80 meter+ antennas, lol.
09:12 < azarus> storge: cool!
09:12 < CoJaBo> I got to work on an AGIS or something machine once. So obscure it's not documented anywhere, apparently
09:12 < azarus> (I'd kinda like to run Gentoo and OpenBSD on the SPARC machines)
09:12 < storge> azarus: i went from 12 sparcstation 5's to 2 of them, then sold those as i was moving. sold for a song, wish i hadn't
09:12 < CoJaBo> No hope whatsoever of running Linux on that xD
09:13 < JimBuntu> I think I worked on some AGIS equipment, name sounds familiar
09:14 < storge> did that AGIS have the ability to boot from net i wonder
09:14 < JimBuntu> What relation was AGIS to Xerox?
09:14 < CoJaBo> I don't think it had anything to do with Xerox
09:14 < CoJaBo> It was a mainframe-type system, so it basically didn't (re)boot at all
09:14 < storge> cool
09:14 < JimBuntu> Hmmmm. Maybe a brand being confused with a model line then.
09:15 < CoJaBo> The archetecture was very bizarre, and I don't think it ever made it to production; IIRC, the company that owned it was the one who built it
09:16 < pagios> hello, i tried buring a windows.iso file on unetbootin and dd command and tried to set the bootflag on using fdisk toggle, still icant boot my iso even though the files have been extracted correctly on the usb what can be the problem? the bootprocess just skips usb boot even when i select it from bios
09:17 < ayecee> what was your dd command
09:17 < pagios> hi
09:17 < CoJaBo> Kernel and userspace ran on seperate CPUs. I wish it were better documented, because it'd be a really cool system to emulate
09:17 < pagios> hello, i tried buring a windows.iso file on unetbootin and dd command and tried to set the bootflag on using fdisk toggle, still icant boot my iso even though the files have been extracted correctly on the usb what can be the problem? the bootprocess just skips usb boot even when i select it from bios
09:17 < ayecee> you said that already
09:17 < ayecee> what was your dd command
09:18 < JimBuntu> pagios, duplicating your issue isn't going to be of much help, you already have out attention
09:18 < pagios> dd if=iso of=sda not the number following it and vs=1mb
09:18 < pagios> and a sync after it
09:18 < ayecee> okay, guess windows iso isn't a hybrid iso.
09:18 < ayecee> use microsoft's media creator tool.
09:18 < LissajousPattern> man what a pain
09:18 < pagios> i dont have windows on my machine
09:19 < ayecee> find someone who does
09:19 < Triffid_Hunter> yeah windows isos aren't hybrid.. I have a liveusb here where I had to unpack it to ntfs, nab their EFI loader and chainload it with grub to get it to boot from usb
09:19 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, are you also known here as just jim?
09:19 < acresearch> hello people, anyone knows how to make the wifi work in XFCE? I have a macbook pro 2011 8,1 and I usually install b43-firmware and it always works in GNOME, but not in XFCE. anyone can help me?
09:19 < CoJaBo> VBox usually works if you don't want to go thru the PITA that is dual-boot
09:20 < LissajousPattern> cause if so we have talked many times before
09:20 < Triffid_Hunter> acresearch: WM choice should have nothing to do with it, look elsewhere for the issue
09:20 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, I was known as jimb, but there is another Jim with 1+ m's depending on their mood
09:20 < LissajousPattern> ah ha
09:20 < LissajousPattern> yeah I know Jim
09:20 < acresearch> Triffid_Hunter: WM?
09:21 < JimBuntu> I am simply a stranger in the storm ;-)
09:21 < LissajousPattern> same
09:21 < Triffid_Hunter> acresearch: xfce and gnome are just window manager + desktop environment, they don't control your wifi
09:21 < LissajousPattern> well its always cool to meet other hams
09:21 < Pentode> some desktops environments come with their own network manager applets.
09:21 < Pentode> thats probably what acresearch is referring to
09:22 < JimBuntu> We are all over the place, always surprised when I meet more in industry, always happy to meet more online
09:22 < acresearch> Triffid_Hunter: i know, which is what is driving me crazy, but that is what is happening in my computer. i don't know where to search for an answer.
09:22 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, you going to the hamvention?
09:22 < Triffid_Hunter> acresearch: have a play with wpa_supplicant and keep an eye on your daemon log
09:22 < Pentode> acresearch, google and learn how to do it the right way so you wont have this problem again.
09:22 < LissajousPattern> 31 days until I think
09:22 < acresearch> Triffid_Hunter: ok let me search it
09:22 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, the next convention I will probably go to is on Fathers Day (U.S.)... Although I may end up in Dayton, OH for theirs
09:22 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, You?
09:22 < LissajousPattern> idk
09:22 < LissajousPattern> i may
09:23 < lovingninetails> zX
09:23 < LissajousPattern> I will be going to VA pretty soon but dont know if I will be out there long enough to make it to ohio
09:23 < LissajousPattern> it would be cool though if things work out
09:23 < JimBuntu> The conventions are not what they used to be... I need some tube related equipment (and some tubes)... fear I may have to make my own diagnostic equipment at this point.
09:24 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, what kind of boat anchor parts do you need?
09:24 < LissajousPattern> oh isee you need trest equipment
09:25 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, lol. I have a 1920's era radio I am trying to bring back, unsure how much of it needs replacement at this point. I don't mind replicating some of the boards but tubes, I can't be making those, lol.
09:25 < LissajousPattern> well sure
09:25 < LissajousPattern> what kind of tubes?
09:25 < LissajousPattern> i have a small amount and a tester here
09:26 < LissajousPattern> believe it or not I actualy have a few 807s
09:26 < LissajousPattern> actually*
09:26 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, I would have to get the part numbers from them. All kinds, I swear the people that designed this thing used tubes for everything they could, I wouldn't doubt there is one simply to warm the dang thing up to temp. It hold nearly a dozen. It doesn't even transmit, simply one of those large boxes for home listeners.
09:27 < JimBuntu> oh shoot!
09:27 < LissajousPattern> yeah there is typically a dedicated tube rectifier
09:28 < LissajousPattern> as well as audio amp/buffer stages and then oscillators and IF stages
09:29 < LissajousPattern> although seeing as how its from the 20's I would be curious to know the receive architecture being used because I believe that was before Armstrong
09:29 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, agreed, but I need to break out the schematics again, it's been a couple years since I last tried to get parts. I have a couple of cards for suppliers, but the last one I called had retired.
09:29 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, also check antique electronics supply as I know they stock some NOS tubes
09:30 < rangergord> anyone know of a channel for audio programming?
09:31 < lovingninetails> So there's russian cyber attacks to UK, US and Australian
09:31 < lovingninetails> Great
09:31 < LissajousPattern> rangergord, like DSP or ...?
09:31 < lovingninetails> Good thing I am not using XP anymore JimBuntu
09:31 < lovingninetails> xD
09:31 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, I may very well have to do that. Luckily, I got the radio for cheap, as parts may run me quite a bit. That's OK overall though, to hear this thing HUM again should be amazing.
09:31 < rangergord> LissajousPattern: nah I just wanna ask about a high-level library for basic audio analysis. I want to analyze a large mp3 file, and split it into multiple mp3 files based on detect silences? Like imagine if someone recorded a whole album into a single mp3 file, and you wanted to split it.  Ideally something in a sane language, not something like C.
09:32 < JimBuntu> lovingninetails, There are Russia and China based attacks all over the place, check out the results from "Norse"... the applicance/software company. They make their general info public.
09:32 < rangergord> lovingninetails: fake news, or is that happening right now?
09:33 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, Ha! rangergord is asking about VOX
09:33 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, yeah pretty much
09:33 < rangergord> what's VOX?
09:33 < lovingninetails> rangergord, JimBuntu: Russia did it in retaliation to the US bombing Syria apparently...
09:33 < LissajousPattern> rangergord, maybe try playing around with gnuradio
09:34 < lovingninetails> Brb, having dinner
09:34 < JimBuntu> _ether_, ID yourself, please
09:34 < LissajousPattern> rangergord, dont be fooled by the "radio" in the name because it is a very powerful piece of DSP analysis software
09:35 < CoJaBo> Triffid_Hunter: so, I can't seem to get netconsole to work
09:36 < LissajousPattern> rangergord, or just use audacity possibly
09:36 < rangergord> I'm asking in their channel right now, thx
09:36 < CoJaBo> It shows up in dmesg on the sender, everything looks correct; but the receiver never gets anything
09:36 < LissajousPattern> it just depending on the type of analysis you intend on carrying out
09:36 < JimBuntu> audacity would probably be the smaller install, I wish I knew exactly what to use for after-the-fact analysis like this... I figure even ffmpeg has such a function, or lame
09:37 < rangergord> LissajousPattern: checking it out. I thought Audacity was just for editing, didn't think it did analysis
09:37 < sadbox> rangergord: Not sure how good this is, but it came up via google: https://github.com/amsehili/auditok
09:37 < LissajousPattern> well like I said what type of analysis? what exactly are you trying to find?
09:37 < sadbox> does what you were talking about, i.e. splitting an audio file when it detects silence
09:37 < rangergord> Booyah! http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/silence_finder_and_sound_finder.html   And Audacity appears to be scriptable, I'll try that
09:38 < LissajousPattern> cool
09:38 < LissajousPattern> open source to the rescue yet again
09:39 < rangergord> I'll try auditok too out of curiosity
09:39 < rangergord> seems easier to start with
09:40 < rangergord> oh my! subtitle template!
09:40 < rangergord> that's a pretty neat tool tbh
09:41 < LissajousPattern> you got me curious now too.
09:42 < LissajousPattern> that is actually pretty neat
09:43 < LissajousPattern> rangergord, what kind of audio project are you working on?
09:43 < LissajousPattern> I mean I kinda get what you are doing but not quite
09:43 < rangergord> LissajousPattern: nothing, I just sometimes download music albums off youtube and convert to mp3 (youtube-dl + ffmpeg), and sometimes can only find them in a single large video. It's annoying not being able to skip boring tracks.
09:44 < LissajousPattern> thats kinda what I figured you were doing
09:44 < Triffid_Hunter> CoJaBo: using udp or tcp? checked with wireshark?
09:45 < Triffid_Hunter> rangergord: I've grabbed a reasonable chunk of my collection from youtube too.. usually just find the highest quality track with mp3 audio and do a straight non-reencoding copy
09:45 < rangergord> half the damn hip hop albums seem to have cringy "skits" in them
09:45 < LissajousPattern> someone really need to go to Antarctica to digitally preserve the vast vinyl collection they have.
09:46 < rangergord> the Antarcticans have a vast vinyl collection?
09:46 < Triffid_Hunter> rangergord: ah, don't know much about hiphop myself, got a few friends who are into that though
09:46 < LissajousPattern> in fact it happens to be the largest collection of vinyl records in existence
09:46 < rangergord> well any album is 75% boring tracks, really. Or rather, 25% great tracks at best.
09:46 < rangergord> whether your music is pop or classical or whatever
09:46 < sadbox> rangergord: also found https://github.com/crisbal/album-splitter
09:47 < sadbox> which does what you want somewhat more directly
09:47 < sadbox> re: classical, I wonder how well it would work w/ silence detection
09:47 < sadbox> classical tends to have a bit more dynamic range + random silences mid-piece
09:48 < rangergord> sadbox: that tool's too basic, it works off wikipedia-provided track listings instead of audio analysis. I listen to some artists that don't even have a wikipedia entry, let alone track listings.
09:49 < rangergord> sadbox: yeah I remember clapping at the wrong time at a classical concert we went to in school. The artists stopped playing and I thought they were done.
09:49 < sadbox> rangergord: RWIW you can define your own tracklist
09:49 < sadbox> FWIW**
09:49 < rangergord> if a human can't detect it, how can a tool?
09:49 < LissajousPattern> yeah one breve and it would probably try to split it up
09:49 < rangergord> sadbox: the fact that it's not automated means it's too much work
09:49 < LissajousPattern> classically speaking
09:50 < LissajousPattern> I wonder if my ISP had some sorta crap installed on my router to disconnect me frequently?
09:50 < LissajousPattern> well their router
09:50 < LissajousPattern> haha
09:51 < LissajousPattern> cause after I did a factory reset all seems ok
09:51 < LissajousPattern> although these issues seem to be only related to one machine
09:53 < rangergord> install ddwrt/openwrt if you can
09:53 < Triffid_Hunter> LissajousPattern: cots routers are usually pretty terrible.. they often run out of ram and fail to dns/dhcp properly which looks very much like connection dropping from user perspective
09:53 < LissajousPattern> yeah I dont think I can
09:53 < rangergord> or was it tomato? idk, haven't used a custom ROM in a long time
09:53 < Triffid_Hunter> I've been pretty happy with my xiaomi nano so far though
09:54 < LissajousPattern> Triffid_Hunter, I honestly bet that is what is happening which would make sense as to why it works again once the cache is cleared
09:54 < rangergord> LissajousPattern: you could buy your own high-quality router, and use that for networking. Disable wifi on the ISP router, and just use it as your modem.
09:54 < LissajousPattern> sure
09:54 < LissajousPattern> however I will not be using an ISP in 10 days
09:54 < Triffid_Hunter> LissajousPattern: quick check is to set static ip and route, and use someone else's DNS server eg 8.8.8.8 or 114.114.114.114 and see if your internet suddenly works
09:55 < LissajousPattern> Triffid_Hunter, honestly I really do think your first assessment was spot on
09:56 < rangergord> use 4.2.2.2, 8.8.8.8 is Google's
09:56 < LissajousPattern> cause its about the same period of time between hang ups
09:56 < LissajousPattern> which is about a month
09:56 < LissajousPattern> in fact now its actually less often because its just me by myself here now
09:56 < Triffid_Hunter> LissajousPattern: heh maybe it's the reappearance of the win98 overflow bug where it counted time since boot in milliseconds and thus overflowed after 49.7 days?
09:57 < LissajousPattern> huh weird. never heard of it
09:57 < LissajousPattern> sounds interesting though
09:57 < JimBuntu> or use the new hotness DNS... 1.1.1.1 or 1.0.0.1
09:57 < LissajousPattern> I am all about new hotness
09:58 < sadbox> is supposedly v fast
09:58 < JimBuntu> yeah, CloudFlare seems to have super speed with their new offering, we will see how long that lasts
09:59 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, so to get a better grasp of DNS... can I change that with my mobile plan too?
10:00 < LissajousPattern> basically is there a way to get a round mobile hotspot throttling?
10:01 < CoJaBo> Triffid_Hunter: It's using UDP AFAICT; Tried tcpdump, can't get that to show anything either
10:02 < Myrl-saki> I have 4 cores. Load average is at 4, and all cores are at 100%. Is there no swap throttling?
10:02 < ayecee> what is swap throttling
10:02 < Dagmar> What does that have to do with "swap throttling"?
10:02 < Myrl-saki> ayecee: I mean throttling due to swap.
10:03 < rangergord> JimBuntu: who owns 1.1.1.1?
10:03 < sadbox> rangergord: cloudflare
10:03 < Myrl-saki> rangergord: Rn, Cloudflare, I think.
10:03 < ayecee> still not clear on what that is
10:03 < rangergord> i c
10:03 < Myrl-saki> Dagmar: Well, if you have a load average of 4, but only one CPU is running, that means the other threads are swapping, right?
10:04 < Dagmar> I have two apples.  Jimmy has three apples... so logically North Dakota is a biscuit.
10:04 < ayecee> you're using swapping in a weird way
10:04 < JimBuntu> rangergord, Technically speaking, the IANA, but the DNS services are offered by CloudFlare
10:04 < Dagmar> Myrl-saki: No.
10:04 < Dagmar> That's miles away from how load averages are calculated
10:04 < Dagmar> You apparently have *four* processes (one per core) that are doing a lot of work.
10:04 < Dagmar> That's about it
10:05 < Myrl-saki> Dagmar: Then what's the relevance of core usage?
10:05 < ayecee> on average, 4 processes were ready to run at each scheduling interval
10:05 < Dagmar> Myrl-saki: They'll be accomplishing four times as much work as just one core
10:06 < Dagmar> If a process isn't done with it's work when it's timeslice is up, it adds 1 to the load
10:06 < azarus> Why not use DNS by OpenNIC?
10:06 < azarus> Somewhat more trustworthy than Google/Cloudflare
10:06 < ayecee> s/not//
10:07 < Myrl-saki> Dagmar: Oh okay.
10:07 < Dagmar> Having a load average of 4 (solid) clearly means you've got four processes that are still running, and not done yet
10:07 < JimBuntu> azarus, for the saved milliseconds, perhaps. idk
10:07 < Dagmar> Seems to me to be a pretty reasonable guess that you have a quad-core CPU
10:07 < Myrl-saki> Dagmar: How do I make sure that my threads are not swapping?
10:08 < Dagmar> You need to explain what you think "swapping" is, first
10:08 < LissajousPattern> it was the russians
10:08 < ayecee> indeed
10:08 < Dagmar> I guarantee you that the kernel is changing between those four tasks rather rapidly
10:08 < Myrl-saki> Dagmar: ayecee: The threads are busy with swapping from storage to main memory, therefore can't execute?
10:09 < ayecee> no, they're not
10:09 < Dagmar> No, they _are_ executing
10:09 < ayecee> or at least there's no reason to think they are
10:09 < rangergord> azarus: I support the idea, but the lack of an official high-availability server means you;re at the whim of some rando keeping his server up.
10:09 < Myrl-saki> Okay, I think I get that part.
10:09 < Dagmar> If you want to know if stuff is using your swap actively, look at iostat
10:10 < Myrl-saki> I've done a bit of OSdev, so a page fault occurs during the execution to swap in from storage, I believe?
10:10 < LissajousPattern> I think something in this windows 10 junk keeps disconnecting my wifi
10:10 < Triffid_Hunter> JimBuntu: oh nice, they're in australia
10:11 < LissajousPattern> I have changed every power saver setting to keep it from shutting off things and have basically tried to troubleshoot this issue to no real avail
10:11 < ayecee> Myrl-saki: yes
10:11 < LissajousPattern> it may just be time to sacrifice this machine to the linux gods so to speak and get rid of windows for good
10:11 < ayecee> or rather the page fault triggers the read from swap
10:11 < rangergord> how come Linux doesn't have a single lightweight tool to show CPU, memory, disk and network usage? Gotta use top, iostat, nethogs/whatever, etc. When will Linux scale to the heights of Windows Task Manager?
10:12 < Dagmar> rangergord: Because you have no idea how it works
10:12 < heftig> Dagmar: not necessarily running; there are other states that count towards the loadavg
10:12 < JimBuntu> rangergord, lol
10:12 < Dagmar> Accurate information would be _meaningless_ to most users
10:12 < heftig> uninterruptible sleeps and zombies both do
10:12 < Dagmar> heftig: I am aware, however he's given us no reason to think the machine is doing anything other than "working fine"
10:12 < heftig> 4 zombies wouldn't visibly cause issues
10:12 < Dagmar> Neither would 4 unicorns
10:13 < Triffid_Hunter> rangergord: like ksysguard?
10:13 < Myrl-saki> FWIW, it calls `llc --version` and leaves it as zombies.
10:13 < rangergord> Dagmar: it's not meaningless to me, dammit! If I feel something is slow, first thing I want to do is look at what's the bottleneck (CPU, disk, network)
10:13 < Myrl-saki> I'v seen around 10 from each process
10:13 < rangergord> (memory too, but that translates to disk, due to swap)
10:13 < Dagmar> rangergord: It's all _wildly_ more complex than you tnink
10:13 < Spookan> LissajousPattern: What do you do in Windows that you cant do in Linux?
10:14 < JimBuntu> When memory translates to disk, you need more memory
10:14 < LissajousPattern> Spookan, suffer
10:14 < rangergord> Dagmar: so Windows devs are able to write this more complex stuff, but not Linux devs? Praise Ballmer!
10:14 < Spookan> LissajousPattern: Haha!
10:14 < Myrl-saki> Dagmar: I have iostat installed, is there a certain flag to monitor swap usage?
10:14 < Dagmar> rangergord: Windows devs have a lower standard to meet.
10:15 < Dagmar> Myrl-saki: It has a device associated with it.  If you run say `iostat 2` and you know which disk device that is, swap usage will show there
10:15 < sadbox> Dagmar: rangergord: this is a v strange convo
10:15 < LissajousPattern> Spookan, nothing at all I just wanted to give windows a year to see if it still sucked as bad as it did before and truthfully I dont see how they were able to actually make it worse.
10:15 < Triffid_Hunter> rangergord: heh, swap? don't have any of that here :P
10:15 < rangergord> sadbox: dude's snobby. "you simpletons couldn't possibly understand the COMPLEX INFORMATION that is I/O rate"
10:15 < LissajousPattern> this laptop came with windows so I figured whats the worst that could happen. boy what an understatement.
10:15 < sadbox> rangergord: he... is indeed
10:16 < lovingninetails> Should I run: sudo e4defrag /
10:16 < azarus> LissajousPattern: windows isn't an operating system. it's advertisement platform
10:16 < Dagmar> Myrl-saki: If the disk throughput is saturated, you'll see a conspiciously high number just sit there and not change
10:16 < LissajousPattern> azarus, yeah its sad
10:17 < LissajousPattern> azarus, they even admit it
10:17 < JimBuntu> ext4 + defrag... there is a combo I haven't seen in a while
10:17 < azarus> LissajousPattern: i fixed wifi in W10 for a user today
10:17 < Dagmar> rangergord: You realize how long Linux has been around, right?
10:17 < LissajousPattern> azarus, what was the problem?
10:17 < azarus> LissajousPattern: had to disable power management on the wifi interface
10:17 < LissajousPattern> azarus, done that
10:17 < azarus> LissajousPattern: problem was that wifi didn't connect on system boot
10:17 < Dagmar> rangergord: You don't think that if there was any way to make what you were asking for _actually useful_ that someone wouldn't have written some code for that sometime in, oh, I dunno, the last twenty years
10:17 < rangergord> Dagmar: what does that have anything to do with me, as a user, wanting to see what processes are consuming my CPU and I/O? I don't care if Tenenbaum faceslapped Torvalds with a Minix book, I'm just trying to use a desktop OS here.
10:18 < LissajousPattern> azarus, mine loses connection at some pretty random times
10:18  * azarus shrugs
10:18 < azarus> Reinstall wifi drivers?
10:18 < LissajousPattern> and I did think it was power management for a while but I swear I have tried everything in regard to that.
10:18 < azarus> And if that doesn't work, reinstall windoze
10:18 < lovingninetails> sudo apt purge wpasupplicant
10:18 < Dagmar> Major issue number one is that if the CPU is at 100% it just means you're not wasting as much electricity as you could be
10:18 < LissajousPattern> azarus, i have reinstalled the entire system multiple time drivers and all
10:18 < rangergord> Dagmar: someone did. Several apps were written. A plethora of apps that show only one info: top/htop for CPU, iostat for disk IO, nethogs/others for network IO. All I want is this info consolidated.
10:19 < azarus> LissajousPattern: then I am out of ideas :/
10:19 < LissajousPattern> yeahno worries
10:19 < heftig> rangergord: atop is one of the older all-in-one monitors
10:19 < Dagmar> If you're looking at that for a box that's supposed to be doing a lot of work, perhaps seeing a very low number should be profoundly alarming
10:19 < LissajousPattern> I will just throw linux at this machine and hope for the best
10:19 < Dagmar> ...but in pretty much all cases, it doesn't actually mean anything useful by itself
10:19 < sadbox> rangergord: maybe try ksysguard
10:19 < sadbox> "KDE system guard"
10:20 < azarus> LissajousPattern: what wifi card is it? I have some experience with wifi drivers
10:20 < Dagmar> Linux manages running a whole lot of different processes _very well_
10:20 < sadbox> seems to have all the things
10:20 < LissajousPattern> azarus, let me check I dont know off hand
10:20 < rangergord> Dagmar: without these tools you can't identify misbehaving apps. I had to remove the gvfs-backend cause thanks to top, I could see it pegging a whole core the whole time, due to a bug. Information is NEVER a bad thing to show to users. Just because I can't write a kernel doesn't mean I can't understand basic computer concepts. Just like how I don't need to know how to build a car to appreciate
10:20 < rangergord> a tyre pressure sensor.
10:20 < Dagmar> What matters is *is the work you are asking the machine to do getting done in a timely fashion*?>
10:20 < Dagmar> rangergord: Key word being *tools*
10:20 < sadbox> Dagmar: also FWIW I don't think that ksysguard was waiting to be written for 20 years because it's a staggeringly complex piece of software
10:21 < sadbox> Dagmar: reading counters and sticking them on a graph isn't really.... that hard
10:21 < LissajousPattern> qualcom atheros ar9485
10:21 < Dagmar> Diagnosing what's going on unless you wrote most of the code on the system is not a reasonable goal without a lot of tools to examine the system
10:21 < sadbox> even if it is a staggeringly complex task to understand what those numbers mean
10:21 < Dagmar> sadbox: Yeah, and I do it all the time with Cacti and Nagios and a few other things
10:21 < Dagmar> Primarily, it's the sort of thing that's useful to show to middle management
10:21 < rangergord> heftif: I'll check out atop
10:21 < azarus> LissajousPattern: should be supported by ath9k?
10:21 < azarus> I'll look it up
10:22 < azarus> yup
10:22 < sadbox> Dagmar: I also don't think you need to have written most of the code to find bugs, that's sorta like
10:22 < LissajousPattern> the driver?
10:22 < azarus> ath9k is a great driver, yes
10:22 < azarus> works even without firmware
10:22 < Dagmar> There's no one simple tool for it because there's not really a "one simple" configuration for Linux, or workloads
10:22 < LissajousPattern> azarus, wow
10:22 < sadbox> Dagmar: a thing you should be able to do if you're the type who needs nagios and cacti
10:23 < Dagmar> You pretty much *have* to set those up based on the load on the machine, or you will be looking at one of two scenarios
10:23 < Dagmar> 1. You didn't capture the information needed to diagnose the problem
10:23 < LissajousPattern> azarus, its using the athk 10x
10:23 < Dagmar> or 2. You have collected more data than you possibly know what to do with
10:23 < rangergord> Dagmar: and yet, Microsoft's UX research teams still felt it was a good idea to put that info in Task Manager. This is an OS for casual users, that has this info. But I guess we should believe you instead.
10:23 < azarus> LissajousPattern: hm? ath10k is for for 10xxx series
10:24 < rangergord> maybe Apple/OSX does too, idk, never used a Mac
10:24 < rangergord> and wouldn't you know it, they dominate the market
10:24 < Dagmar> There are some tools to show you the numbers, but unless you understand how the system works, you're wasting your time reading them
10:25 < Dagmar> The load avg figure is acutally kind of useful, but it's just going to vary wildly from machine to machine
10:25 < Dagmar> Sometimes a webserver is *just fine* at a loadavg of 100
10:25 < Myrl-saki> Dagmar: Isn't that a problem with using native threads?
10:25 < Myrl-saki> A "problem," rather.
10:25 < rangergord> Dagmar: dude a 10yo could get it, stop thinking you're hot shit. You could even put it in a percentage, like if the OS benchmarks the hard drive, then it knows a process is using 90%
10:26 < Dagmar> Feel free to run top in a terminal window then
10:26 < rangergord> I know about random vs sequential
10:26 < rangergord> I'm more of an htop kind of guy
10:26 < Dagmar> You asked for a tool that doesn't exist, and I told you why it doesn't
10:26 < sadbox> Dagmar: except it does
10:26 < sadbox> ksysguard
10:26 < turbo64> htop has given me selinux errors
10:26 < turbo64> idk why
10:26 < rendar> if i press alt+f2, linux switches from Xorg and UIs to the console textual input, i log in, do my stuff, and when i type 'exit' instead of returning to the login (launched by getty process?) it automatically returns back to a freezed Xorg, and it seems the entire system is freezed, i have to resent, and at the start kernel says: ext4: removed orphaned inode ... What THE HELL?
10:27 < rangergord> sadbox: I'm checking it out, even though I'm not on KDE
10:27 < Dagmar> Is it going to tell me the system is currently in flames because someone dropped the sql tables?
10:27 < azarus> d-d-d-d-drop the database
10:27 < azarus> *dubsteb beat drop*
10:28 < JimBuntu> boom!
10:28 < TheWild> hello
10:28 < rangergord> what's the top equivalent for network IO again? I remember nethogs is one, but there were more lightweight ones IIRC
10:28 < JimBuntu> TheWild, Hey there.
10:28 < JimBuntu> rendar, which OS is that?
10:29 < rendar> debian buster
10:29 < TheWild> is there any "plumbing" command to list porcesses' pids and their start times?
10:29 < Myrl-saki> TheWild: ps?
10:29 < sadbox> rangergord: iftop?
10:30 < TheWild> ps smelled porcelain but... 'printf' occurs at least once in 'man ps'. Give me a while
10:30 < Dagmar> You can probably find something equivalent to that by punting around in /proc/[0-9]+/
10:30 < Evidlo> I need to build an old application with qt 4.5.  Do I likely need to build all of Qt4.5 from source?
10:31 < Dagmar> Evidlo: If that's all, consider yourself very lucky
10:31 < Evidlo> My distro only provides Qt4.8 I think
10:33 < rangergord> sadbox: just tried it. nethogs shows aggregated per-process usage, while iftop shows per-connection usage  (can't tell which process doing it)
10:33 < rangergord> I guess both are fine depending on what you want
10:35 < turbo64> im trying out ubuntu 18.04 beta
10:35 < turbo64> its pretty stable right now, not having any problems with it
10:35 < heeen> how do you update a symbolic link
10:35 < rangergord> turbo64: nice. how does the UI compoare to 16.04?
10:35 < rangergord> smooth transition?
10:35 < turbo64> its gnome but it has the same theme as unity, has the sidebar and the notification area
10:35 < heeen> if you just do ln -sf again it will try to create a new link at the original symlinks destination
10:36 < Evidlo> Ho might I find a Fedora cxxtools rpm from 2010?
10:36 < turbo64> its the same as artful
10:36 < heeen> instead of interpreting the last part as the name and link to update
10:36 < rangergord> turbo64: running natively or in a VM?
10:36 < turbo64> native
10:36 < zeffy> hello
10:36 < LissajousPattern> ok just reinstalled drivers yet again
10:36 < zeffy> how can i check if my videodriver is installed ? i have kali
10:36 < LissajousPattern> probably in vain
10:36 < rangergord> turbo64: i c. The only thing scaring me is performance in Virtualbox.
10:36 < TheWild> well, "ps -eo pid,etime" seems to serve
10:36 < TJ-> heeen: that's how it's always worked; re-writes the symlink
10:36 < azarus> rangergord: does it give you nightmares?
10:37 < turbo64> i have no idea about that
10:37 < turbo64> i mean it should perform fine if you give it enough ram
10:37 < peetaur2> heeen: ln -nfs thing_to_link link_name
10:37 < azarus> rangergord: watch out!!! here comes the oracle virtualization utility!!
10:37 < turbo64> give it like 4GB and it should be fine
10:37 < heeen> peetaur2: ah thanks, thats probably it
10:37 < rangergord> azarus: rephrased: I like Ubuntu, and want to use it in a VM. Some distros (including Ubuntu variants) don't run well in a VM, performance is noticeably slow due to 3D acceleration not working or whatever.
10:38 < azarus> never have I once desired 3d acceleration in a vm
10:38 < heeen> TJ-: not if it is already a link to a dir
10:38 < azarus> i have however done PCI forwarding
10:38 < rangergord> like anything KDE runs VERY slow. Especially on a 4k screen.
10:38 < rangergord> azarus: I don't need it either, but desktop environments rely on it a lot
10:38 < peetaur2> rangergord: Ubuntus with Unity don't let you shut off the compositor, which is idiotic (but there are hacks to mostly disable it). Any other DE ought to let you do that, and then it should run fine.
10:38 < zeffy> how can i check if my videodriver is installed ? i have kali
10:38 < rangergord> so even if you're just opening the menu, it will draw slowly
10:38 < turbo64> https://i.imgur.com/UJiuM9D.png
10:39 < turbo64> this is what mine looks like
10:39 < turbo64> with dash to panel on
10:39 < peetaur2> azarus: maybe you don't desire the functionality requiring it, but ubuntu unity doesn't give you a choice :D
10:39 < azarus> zeffy: if you're asking that, you're likely not served well with kali
10:39 < rangergord> like on KDE Neon I count at least one second from clicking the "start" button until the menu is shown
10:39 < turbo64> they stuck with an old version of nautilus to keep desktop icons
10:39 < zeffy> azarus, i try to learn kali...
10:39 < LissajousPattern> zeffy, lspci | grep VGA
10:39 < TJ-> heeen: ahh, I see what you mean. I was assuming the symlink was to a file (my usual use-case)
10:39  * azarus doesn't bother with desktop environments
10:39 < turbo64> they were supposed to have a new "community theme" for 18.04 but it was never finished
10:39 < turbo64> and it looks like garbage imo
10:40 < turbo64> all the icons are replaced with rounded rectangles
10:40 < LissajousPattern> zeffy, there is way more to linux than kali FYI but have fun al the same
10:40 < LissajousPattern> all*
10:40 < zeffy> 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation C79 [GeForce G102M] (rev b1)
10:40 < zeffy> means i have it instaled ?
10:40 < LissajousPattern> I think yes
10:41 < TheWild> "ps eho pid,etime" even better (h - no header). "ps eho pid,time" could work too, but time here I assume is a interval between system start and process start. How to get the time the system has started then?
10:41 < zeffy> ty guys
10:41 < peetaur2> zeffy: LissajousPattern's command was incomplete I think... more like:   lspci -k | less  and then hit / to search for VGA, then look for "kernel driver in use:"
10:41 < LissajousPattern> peetaur2, thanks
10:42 < rangergord> man I'm abusing my aliases file. I don't feel like remembering ANYTHING. Example: alias apt-describe='apt-cache show'  alias apt-list-upgradable='apt list --upgradable'
10:43 < peetaur2> or some ugly awk....   lspci -k | awk 'BEGIN{found=0}; /VGA/{found=1; firstline=$0}; found && /Kernel driver in use/ {print firstline; print $0; found=0}'
10:43 < rangergord> alias which='type'
10:43 < JimBuntu> rangergord, don't feel bad, I alias worse
10:43 < LissajousPattern> peetaur2, now your just showing off hahaha JK
10:43 < JimBuntu> rangergord, do you have any functions in your rc?
10:43 < LissajousPattern> you're*
10:43 < swarfega> he was right
10:44 < peetaur2> rangergord: now you have to remember this unstandard "apt-describe"
10:44 < LissajousPattern> for sure
10:44 < rangergord> JimBuntu: oh, for sure. find-string, find-replace, find-file-by-name. Also cd does cd+ls
10:44 < rangergord> peetaur: actually I type apt-<TAB> and see what my aliases are.
10:44 < peetaur2> and btw for the |less one, you need -i or "Kernel ..." with upper case k
10:44 < JimBuntu> rangergord, ok, I guess you can feel a little bad, once I had defined functions I started feeling lazy.
10:45 < rangergord> JimBuntu: examples?
10:45 < JimBuntu> rangergord, "printf "%d\n" 0x$(printf "%.8s\n" $1)" is defined within a function for me
10:46 < JimBuntu> that one takes a JS ObjectId and rips the timestamp out of it, for example.
10:47 < sadbox> man my rc file has like one alias
10:47 < rangergord> ok, here's an actually useful bash function, the last one I added: ccat = colorized cat, for when catting source code.   highlight -O ansi --force --line-numbers $1 | less -R
10:47 < sadbox> which is YOLO
10:47 < JimBuntu> rangergord, I also have a function which kills any versions of Chrome that may be running, production/beta/etc as hitting all those 'x's is too much work
10:47 < rangergord> JimBuntu: hmm, sounds like something more appropriate for a keyboard shortcut -> run script
10:48 < peetaur2> JimBuntu: doesn't it have something like firefox does...just ctrl+q will close all windows
10:48 < peetaur2> dunno what you eman about production/beta....you have many builds at the same time?
10:48 < JimBuntu> could go that route rangergord , I always have several terminals laying around though, and like the ability to run these commands remotely... perhaps I am in the other room and decide I will be here for a while... kill chrome in the living room from here.
10:49 < rangergord> lol. "I'm enjoying this coffee. Better kill Chrome."
10:49 < JimBuntu> peetaur2, Yes, I generally have 3 builds of Chrome installed at any time... normal, beta and unstable
10:49 < rangergord> what do you do? killall chrome?
10:49 < JimBuntu> rangergord, laugh as you may, I literally do this
10:49 < nuka-cola_> dont use chrome its a botnet
10:49 < freelancerbob> please how to remove secondary IP address on centos ? scope global secondary enp0s3
10:49 < sadbox> JimBuntu: I guess 'pkill chromium' doesn't work?
10:50 < sadbox> or w/e you're running
10:50 < JimBuntu> roughly, kill 'pidof <exact chrome>'
10:50 < JimBuntu> The three versions have different names, none say chromium
10:51 < rangergord> freelancerbob: paste (NOT HERE, on pastebin) your /etc/network/interfaces file
10:51 < peetaur2> freelancerbob: pastebin whole   ip a l [dev ...]   ?
10:51 < peetaur2> and to clarify what you want, in your pastebin, make a 2nd copy of it and edit it to look like what you want and show us that too
10:52 < peetaur2> I don't care about seeing real mac and ip, but the other stuff like where this "scope global secondary" appears is important
10:52  * lovingninetails whistles What about me~ It isn't fair~ I've had enough now I want my share~ Don't you see~
10:52 < freelancerbob> rangergord: cannot access /etc/network/: No such file or directory
10:52 < freelancerbob> peetaur2: cannot access /etc/network/: No such file or directory
10:52 < JimBuntu> " /etc/network/interfaces"
10:52 < rangergord> do any of the top distros NOT recommend you edit the interfaces file directly? like they expect it to be managed by some external tool, and your changes will get overwritten if you do it?
10:53 < peetaur2> he said centos... so it would be /etc/sysconfig/networking-scripts/ or something like that, but I have no idea what this error is about
10:53 < repys> what does exaclty auditd do ?
10:53 < LissajousPattern> well looks like my frequent disconnects are a problem
10:54 < peetaur2> repys: intercepts the audit spam (such as from apparmor, selinux, and possibly inotify ...) that normally ends up in dmesg or syslog and puts it in a separate log, and also it has a similar thing to inotify
10:54 < freelancerbob> peetaur2: https://pastebin.com/ynAh68q6
10:54 < freelancerbob> rangergord: https://pastebin.com/ynAh68q6
10:54 < peetaur2> auditd has features like doing paranoid sync so you can paranoidly prevent unlikely attacks like someone breaking in and then crashing the system to prevent the log of the break in from being flushed to disk
10:54 < LissajousPattern> although now it seems as though its a different problem than the one I had before because now my wifi is still functional but I keep getting disconnected from IRC
10:54 < repys> who does create the audit logs, is the kernel?
10:55 < peetaur2> freelancerbob: I wasn't asking for that file, just saying that suggesting /etc/network/interfaces like on debian was not useful
10:56 < peetaur2> but maybe grepping for your secondary ip in those files might give you some clues
10:56 < peetaur2> but you should also try to figure out why you get this error...something is broken
10:56 < rangergord> peetaur: I didn't know /etc/network/interfaces was Debian specific. Tbh I've never used anything but Debian derivatives.
10:56 < rangergord> Crazy that there's such differences between the RH family and Debians
10:56 < peetaur2> rangergord: there are so many debian derivatives it's hard to know :)
10:57 < azarus> rangergord: I suggest opening your mind and maybe even experiencing other distros
10:57 < peetaur2> knowing the options is always good
10:58 < rangergord> azarus: nah, I don't like learning new ways of doing the exact same thing. Also, I do use Busybox (embedded Linux) at work, and it also uses /etc/network/interfaces. What about Arch?
10:59 < peetaur2> rangergord: I think arch leaves it up to the user to customize... I think many would choose network manager, and nowadays some people for some reason choose the systemd thing
10:59 < azarus> rangergord: busybox uses /etc/network/interfaces because it tries to imitate how debian works
10:59 < azarus> rangergord: eh, don't like arch personally
10:59 < Zajt> Hi! I got a simple webpage where you can enter commands, like ls to check the files on the server (I am doing a challenge for a CTF so i should make it vulnerable, so you know) , and I want them to be able to cat one file, but not the other files in that folder. How can I do that? Which permissions do I need to set?
11:00 < rangergord> is systemd network config gonna be the next standard? I mean people raged but all major distros adopted it
11:00 < rangergord> (systemd init)
11:00 < peetaur2> Zajt: chown the file as root:webservergroup and then on some files set rwxr----- and on the others, set rwx------
11:01 < peetaur2> owned by webserver:webservergroup and --------- means they can simply chmod it and see it anyway :)
11:01 < Zajt> alright but I don't have any webservergroup really
11:01 < azarus> rangergord: it's already the standard
11:01 < azarus> but I am glad not to follow the standard
11:02 < Zajt> I will run it locally in apache so the webpage will be at like localhost:1891 for example
11:02  * azarus sticks with his initscripts
11:02 < peetaur2> Zajt: just check what the web server runs as... (hopefully not root :D) and then make that user in its own group if not already
11:02 < Zajt> nah I am running it as my username(zajt)
11:02 < Zajt> so not logged in as root
11:03 < peetaur2> oh and btw I'm using arch based...and I don't like nm nor systemd...I use openrc, and I also don't like the openrc way, so I just wrote my own super simple init script (which does far more than those things do, like vlans)
11:03 < Zajt> right now I got: -rw-rw-r-- zajt:zajt on all files peetaur2
11:03 < peetaur2> (and the openrc way is deprecated now I think, and you're supposed to use nm)
11:03 < azarus> peetaur2: i can not describe how much rage I had due to nm
11:04 < azarus> glad not to use it anymore
11:04 < peetaur2> Zajt: so to block the webserver, make it run as www-data:www-data  (that's what ubuntu gives it) and then chown root:www-data and chmod like I said
11:04 < peetaur2> you find a new reason to hate nm every day...like one time I was trying to recover some network config from a dead machine's disk... so you chroot in there and try to use nm-cli and it refuses to list anything since the network device is not present! wtf!
11:05 < Triffid_Hunter> peetaur2: I'm using openrc, it's quite happy with "interesting" network setups whereas nm still can't handle them
11:05 < peetaur2> Triffid_Hunter: I found the /etc/conf.d/net stuff worked for bridges, but not vlans or anything else "interesting" ... what sorts of "interesting" things are you doing?
11:06 < peetaur2> so I pretty much avoided it from the start on the vlan complicated machine, and pretty soon after that on the rest
11:06 < bipul> I have archive three directories into single tarball file with "tar -czvf </path1> </path2> </path3>" But when i am trying to extract it with tar -zxvf File.tar.gz I am unable to see any directory.
11:06 < zeffy> ls -a
11:07 < Triffid_Hunter> peetaur2: a bridge between eth and wifi, an eth host/router port, a VPN, plus I've added a bunch of custom routing stuff so sites in certain countries go outside the VPN, and certain applications can only go through the vpn although it's not all in openrc scripts of course
11:08 < peetaur2> ok so I think you mean your own script, not the openrc provided net thing
11:09 < peetaur2> their thing isn't "scripts" as far as I know
11:09 < Triffid_Hunter> peetaur2: well I use the openrc thing for most of the low level setup, then my scripts take over for the higher level stuff - but it's still quite unlike NM where my scripts would have to actively fight it at all times rather than just pick up the more complex tasks without being sabotaged all the time
11:10 < peetaur2> yeah nm gets jealous ;)
11:10 < Zajt> peetaur2: so for the files i don't want them to see, I do: chown root:www-data filenameHere,  and then I do: chmod rwx------ on them?
11:10 < peetaur2> Zajt: yes
11:18 < LissajousPattern> yeah so I think somehow my ISP may have been messing with me but I am not sure.
11:19 < LissajousPattern> idk this is just strange
11:23 < grharry> Hello, I am getting this when I try to mount an 24T ext4 partition. "read_mmp_block:111: Error -117 while reading MMP block 9383" ... how to fix this ?
11:24 < azarus> grharry: e2fsprogs version?
11:24 < grharry> e2fsck 1.43.4 (31-Jan-2017)
11:24 < grharry> 	Using EXT2FS Library version 1.43.4, 31-Jan-2017
11:25 < azarus> some versions have trouble with ext4 > 16^T
11:25 < azarus> 16T*
11:25 < azarus> also, where are you reading that error?
11:25 < grharry> dmesg
11:25 < azarus> kernel version?
11:26 < azarus> (or maybe just post the entire dmesg)
11:26 < grharry>  4.13.16-2
11:26 < grharry> [75043.109488] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-18): read_mmp_block:111: Error -117 while reading MMP block 9383
11:26 < grharry> I did an fsck.ext4 but no good
11:27 < azarus> dm-18 suggests it's on LVM or dm-crypt or similar, right?
11:27 < grharry> lvm
11:28 < azarus> Hmm. e2fsck doesn't tell you anything?
11:28 < grharry> and also a thinpool lvm
11:29 < grharry> fsck claims that i fixed the problem
11:29 < grharry> but no good
11:29 < azarus> please show the output
11:29 < grharry> wait
11:31 < leeyaa> hello
11:31 < leeyaa> any tip how to resolve this error when trying to start nfs: nfs-server.service: Job nfs-server.service/start failed with result 'dependency'.
11:31 < leeyaa> I am on Ubuntu 16.04.04 LTS, already tried asking in #ubuntu channel.
11:31 < leeyaa> seems like a bug and i need to get around it
11:31 < grharry> Superblock has invalid MMP magic.  Fix<y>?y
11:31 < azarus> grharry: that sounds suspicious.
11:32 < azarus> do you already have data on that filesystem?
11:32 < grharry> yes ... I can mount it ro
11:32 < leeyaa> better make a backup before you click that -y
11:32 < MrElendig> leeyaa: journalctl -b -u nfs
11:33 < MrElendig> nfs-server*
11:33 < grharry> y ... was pressed all ready
11:33 < djph> byebye data
11:33 < Swahili> To move two or more different extension files, would the cmd `mv pathSrc/(*.gif|*.jpg) pathDest` work?
11:33 < MrElendig> always backup before you tell fsck to fix things
11:33 < MrElendig> Swahili: depends on the shell
11:34 < leeyaa> MrElendig: here is the output https://bpaste.net/show/d2bbc6657541
11:34 < MrElendig> Swahili: test with echo
11:34 < leeyaa> seems like nfs modules are missing ?
11:34 < MrElendig> (or printf)
11:34 < grharry> Pass 4: Checking reference counts
11:34 < Swahili> MrElendig: thanks for looking, I'll try
11:34 < Swahili> MrElendig: echo mv... ?
11:34 < bipul> How to archive multiple directory into single tarball file?
11:35 < MrElendig> Swahili: s/mv/echo/
11:35 < MrElendig> bipul: do they share a top level?
11:36 < Swahili> MrElendig: sorry I don't understand, is that a regex pattern?
11:36 < MrElendig> except / obviously
11:36 < MrElendig> Swahili: `echo pathSrc/(*.gif|*.jpg) pathDest`
11:36 < grharry> fsck finished
11:36 < grharry> but same problem
11:36 < Swahili> MrElendig: ok thanks
11:37 < MrElendig> Swahili: find is a more portable way but a bit more verbose
11:37 < bipul> MrElendig, I'm sorry what do you mean "Top level" ?
11:39 < regdude> Hi! Does anyone remember a vulnerability in the linux kernel about 5 years ago in a parsing function?
11:40 < djph> no
11:44 < escherial> i understand that a lot of tools suppress colorized output if they're not logging to a terminal; is it common to recolorize the output, or should i be looking for some way to hack around the color suppression for those tools?
11:45 < escherial> i realize that's an ambiguous question; i guess i'm just wondering if i should suck it up and accept that if i want to log to a file i'm going to have to give up being able to easily read them
11:48 < djph> what's wrong with amber-on-black?
11:49 < geirha> if you include terminal escapes in your log files, the log files will be much harder to read
11:50 < MrElendig> use a logging system with a well defined format
11:50 < MrElendig> *coughjournaldcough*
11:50 < djph> MrElendig: ew, binary
11:51 < MrElendig> is a good thing
11:51 < MrElendig> most of the time
11:52 < geirha> json works well for logging
11:52 < escherial> i guess the gist is to accept that they're not going to be colorized, then, since i don't see myself changing the logging system for a bunch of software i didn't write
11:53 < escherial> thanks; i just needed to be told to give up on it, i suppose
11:53 < MrElendig> is the logs were in a well defined format it would be trivial to colourize them after the fact
11:53 < geirha> they'd only be colorized if you dumped it on a terminal. You'd see a lot of gibberish in an editor
11:53 < escherial> geirha: fair point, but i exclusively monitor these processes in a terminal
11:54 < escherial> i used to have all of these processes running in a tmux session, but that's terrible for obvious reasons...
11:57 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
11:57 < lovingninetails> Hi BluesKaj
11:58 < lovingninetails> The apocalypse is upon us
11:58 < blackflag_bfp> Greetings BluesKaj
11:58 < Blizzkid> Hi all. Ran rsync from nfs to local. Reran it. 80 GB file has changed, so it wants to copy this again, but there's only 50 GB left on drive. Obviously rsync fails because of full disk. How can I avoid this without adding disk space?
11:58 < BluesKaj> Hi lovingninetails, blackflag_bfp
12:01 < deo> Blizzkid --delete-before
12:03 < Blizzkid> deo: oh, really? I thought that was only for deleting files that didn't exist on source. *slams head against wall*
12:03 < JimBuntu> Don't be so mean to your walls, what have they ever fone wrong to you ;-)
12:04 < Blizzkid> lol JimBuntu
12:05 < blackflag_bfp> rsync is a finicky beast
12:05 < escherial> thanks for the input. i'll probably just roughly colorize it post-fact since they do kind of follow a consistent format
12:14 < c0mrade> Yo guys, can you give me some feedback about a video that I uploaded on YouTube, it's an android meterpreter apk. How am using it to gain access to a samsung phone from a Laptop which is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOPNszYKAWY
12:25 < JimBuntu> c0mrade, turn the music down
12:28 < JimBuntu> c0mrade, use full version screen capture software, ditch windows, have content use full desktop space instead of wasting some for your background, more info in the description. That's about all I can come up with at the moment.
12:29 < roxlu> hi, not sure if this is the right channels to ask, but I'm trying to set the SO_RCVBUF size on a socket and then using getsockopt to retrieve the value. But the returned size is always 0. Any ideas why?
12:31 < JimBuntu> Return value "On success, zero is returned for the standard options."
12:32 < roxlu> JimBuntu: I meant the returned-size, so the &size I pass into the getsockopt()
12:32 < roxlu> not the actual "return value" of getsockopt
12:33 < JimBuntu> Oh, my apologies.
12:34 < roxlu> np
12:36 < mawk> hi
12:37 < mawk> that is doubtful roxlu
12:37 < mawk> minimal value SO_RCVBUF can be is 256
12:37 < mawk> or something like this
12:37 < roxlu> Yeah I agree...I must be doing something wrong
12:39 < pankaj_> I am going to make a presentation in libreoffice. But I have to present on a computer that uses window's operating system. Can I convert that presentation into that used in windows format?
12:39 < roxlu> oh mawk I just found the issue. I wasn't setting the option_len to the size of my return value (int)
12:39 < djph> pankaj_: you can try saving to *.ppt(x) but no guarantees that MS Powerpoint won't wreck it
12:40 < JimBuntu> pankaj_, not optimal, but maybe boot from a liveUSB type media?
12:40 < djph> pankaj_: then again, there are also no guarantees MS Powerpoint ${current_ver) won't wreck a *ppt from office 201x
12:41 < pankaj_> djph: May be it is not an open source thinking. But is their any online service for power point so that I can make presentation in web browser.
12:41 < deo> pankaj_ install libreoffice on the windows machine
12:41 < JimBuntu> pankaj_, You can export to PDF. I'm not aware of a good browser based site.
12:42 < djph> doesn't googledocs have a pretty decent presentation tool
12:42 < ananke> uhmm, google docs suite has a presentation tool
12:42 < roxlu> mawk: .. a bit unrelated, but maybe you might know this... I'm working on a program where I want to receive 4 UDP streams from 4 cameras (RTP/H264) that are connected directly w/o a switch. When I create 4 threads to receive the data lots of packets are dropped (using select per thread with a timeout). But when I run 4 instances with just one thread and connect to one camera almost nothing gets dropped. I'm
12:42 < roxlu> trying to find out what might cause this.
12:42 < pankaj_> deo: Oh
12:43 < mawk> roxlu: one select per thread, each select is only selecting its UDP endpoint only ?
12:43 < mawk> could be a locking issue maybe
12:43 < mawk> I prefer using event loops, that is your one thread one process model
12:43 < mawk> using select
12:44 < mawk> well not select because it's aweful but epoll
12:44 < roxlu> mawk: yeah it's one thread per socket and one select per thread. I'm only using select to timeout the recvfrom
12:44 < heftig> roxlu: if you're not interested in reading the size afterwards, you can also pass something like &(socklen_t) { sizeof value } instead of making a local
12:45 < roxlu> thanks heftig
12:45 < roxlu> mawk: what makes you think it's a locking issue? locking on the OS level or my prog level?
12:45 < mawk> that's not how you're supposed to use select
12:46 < roxlu> mawk: yeah I know
12:46 < mawk> how can use use at the same time select and recvfrom
12:46 < roxlu> mawk: well...you can use if for timeouts, but I understand that you mean that I should use one select()
12:46 < mawk> in the same thread
12:46 < mawk> yeah
12:46 < mawk> or poll, or epoll
12:46 < roxlu> could this be causing the drops maybe?
12:47 < heftig> roxlu: is it a quadruple interface network card?
12:47 < roxlu> heftig: yep
12:47 < mawk> if properly used no, but it would depend on your code
12:47 < mawk> especially if you think you're doing recvfrom while you're only selecting on your timerfd
12:47 < heftig> roxlu: how much bandwidth does one stream take?
12:48 < roxlu> heftig: ~12Mb
12:48 < heftig> hm, should be well within the hardware limits, even with overhead
12:49 < roxlu> yeah I would have expected that too
12:49 < heftig> roxlu: you connect each instance to a different camera?
12:49 < roxlu> I'm curious is my usage of 4 threads + select() can cause this
12:49 < roxlu> heftig: yes
12:49 < roxlu> heftig: by using a different receive port
12:50 < heftig> do you have any synchronization or passing data between threads?
12:50 < roxlu> no, each thread works on it's own
12:51 < heftig> why are you using select at all?
12:51 < roxlu> and for testing purposes I'm only decoding the first 12 bytes of a packet
12:51 < roxlu> heftig: I was using it as to timeout after 3 seconds
12:51 < roxlu> so I can exit the thread
12:51 < roxlu> (when needed)
12:52 < heftig> can you post the code where you make the thread?
12:53 < heftig> you may be sharing data between threads accidentally, e.g. the sockets or the fdsets
12:54 < roxlu> nah I'm not, but I'll paste a link in a privmsg
12:59 < roxlu> heftig: did you get it?
13:09 < AlexeyX> Hi there!
13:11 < AlexeyX> Could you tell me, why NFS share doesn't mount after reboot? I wrote path to NFS in fstab, without dns name... And after reboot, share doesn't mount. But If I write mount -a, everything will be ok
13:12 < djph> AlexeyX: your networking isn't up when fstab is loaded.
13:12 < AlexeyX> I think about it...
13:12 < AlexeyX> But what can I do?
13:13 < AlexeyX> What is the best practice?
13:14 < Equalizer44> Did Linus say that installing Ubuntu was difficult
13:16 < JimBuntu> Equalizer44, I think he was explicitly referring to Debian.
13:23 < djph> AlexeyX: just mount it after the fact with mount -a
13:24 < djph> AlexeyX: there are probably ways to make fstab wait, so read the manpages
13:29 < phinxy> AlexeyX• Wifi or Ethernet?
13:29 < turbo64> is there a way to disable that annoying program not responding popup in gnome
13:33 < MrElendig> sure, fix the program that hangs
13:34 < mawk> that's what I wanted to answer
13:35 < TheWild> I'm running "openssl ocsp" without -nrequest parameter, so according to the doc it should take unlimited number of requests. However, it still exits after one request.
13:35 < TheWild> Of course I asked on #openssl, but I got no response for way too long.
13:35 < Myrl-saki> Does user `time` include the time it takes to swap, or is that included in `sys`?
13:35 < mawk> my guess is that it's sys
13:35 < jelly> how long is too long, TheWild?  Small channels can take days to get an answer
13:37 < TheWild> I asked 12:44 (GMT+2, now it's 13:37)
13:37 < AlexeyX> djph, It is server...
13:38 < TheWild> I'm at office having to finish this freaking task and internets aren't very helpful.
13:47 < djph> AlexeyX: so then why on earth is it rebooting?
13:47 < LissajousPattern> TheWild, which version?
13:47 < AlexeyX> it happens...
13:48 < TheWild> oh, I tested on few versions and each one does the same crap
13:48 < TheWild> openssl --version
13:48 < djph> then read the manpages and figure out how to tell fstab to wait, or fix your procedure to re-mount what needs mounted after it comes up
13:48 < TheWild> openssl -version
13:48 < LissajousPattern> yes
13:49 < TheWild> OpenSSL 1.0.2j-fips  26 Sep 2016
13:49 < LissajousPattern> are you specifying the CAfile?
13:49 < TheWild> yup
13:50 < TheWild> openssl ocsp -index certindex -port 55555 -rsigner ocsp.crt -rkey ocsp.key -CA ca-chain.crt -text
13:51 < TheWild> doing a request from a browser. Although, it's an invalid request, the server should remain alive... right?
13:51 < LissajousPattern> IDK
13:53 < LissajousPattern> sounds like the base directories may have a conflict
13:54 < LissajousPattern> but I really have no clue I am just at a motel 6 getting free wifi.
13:54 < LissajousPattern> JK
13:55 < LissajousPattern> you can check the base dir in a terminal
13:58 < djph> LissajousPattern: should've stayed at a Holiday Inn :)
13:59 < LissajousPattern> djph, permanently?
13:59 < LissajousPattern> oh duh
13:59 < LissajousPattern> I am dumb
13:59 < LissajousPattern> hahahahaha
14:00 < LissajousPattern> djph, I admit it was a stupid joke to begin with but whats even funnier is you called me out on it
14:00 < LissajousPattern> and thank yo for correcting my mistake
14:00 < LissajousPattern> you*
14:01 < LissajousPattern> I can always rely on ##linux to keep me on the straight and narrow
14:06 < LissajousPattern> whos ready for Friday?
14:07  * JimBuntu is SO ready for Friday
14:08 < LissajousPattern> awesome
14:09 < JimBuntu> The best thing about an April Friday the 13th, is the following Friday
14:09 < LissajousPattern> hahaha
14:09 < LissajousPattern> I was just wondering how many times Fri the 13th has happened in April
14:09 < CrazyTux> anyone here using MX Linux?
14:10 < LissajousPattern> its gotta be pretty important to all the occultist in the world
14:10 < azarus> CrazyTux: if you have a question, ask it
14:10 < MrElendig> my sister was born on longfriday the 13th
14:10 < LissajousPattern> interesting
14:11 < CrazyTux> the default DE of MX is Xfce. Have you ever tried other DEs available on MX Linux? like Budgie, Mate and Lxde?
14:11 < LissajousPattern> last time was 2012
14:11 < azarus> CrazyTux: they should work fine, as with any other distro
14:11 < azarus> this isn't MX Linux specific
14:12 < CrazyTux> azarus, ok. They are available in MX Installer under Window Manager.
14:12 < azarus> CrazyTux: MX Linux is debian based. so just go "apt install <whatever>" and you should be fine
14:12 < CrazyTux> azarus, ok.
14:13 < azarus> Or use whatever MX provides, it should just work.
14:13 < CrazyTux> ok
14:13 < MrElendig> isn't MX dead?
14:13 < MrElendig> pretty much
14:13 < CrazyTux> how many DEs can one install on it without breaking the OS or without creating any conflicts?
14:14 < azarus> CrazyTux: as many as you want
14:14 < CrazyTux> azarus, great.
14:14 < azarus> Just clean up afterwards ;)
14:14 < LissajousPattern> and the next time fri 13th falls in April will be 2035
14:14 < CrazyTux> azarus, clean up afterwards? what does it mean?
14:14 < azarus> CrazyTux: config files and the such.
14:14 < LissajousPattern> get rid of the ones you wont use
14:15 < LissajousPattern> cause conflicts
14:15 < CrazyTux> azarus, how to do that? any gui tool for that?
14:15 < azarus> CrazyTux: not that I know of. Your file manager would do fine tough
14:15 < LissajousPattern> comes to ##linux asking for gui tools = priceless
14:15 < CrazyTux> LissajousPattern, I am just a non technical end user.
14:16 < LissajousPattern> CrazyTux, fair is fair
14:16 < LissajousPattern> sorry I just thought it was ironic
14:16 < MrElendig> aptitude
14:17 < azarus> synaptic for the ultra friendly clicky clicky gooey gui
14:17 < CrazyTux> that is why I am sticking to some of the distros that are easier and newbie friendly.
14:17 < LissajousPattern> CrazyTux, in case you are wondering aptitude is your GUI
14:17 < CrazyTux> ok
14:18 < azarus> well, what if I told you switching DEs or WMs isn't "newbie" friendly, would you refrain from doing it, CrazyTux?
14:18 < LissajousPattern> ^
14:18 < LissajousPattern> unless a little trial and error is in order
14:18 < CrazyTux> azarus, yes.
14:18 < azarus> Well then STOP.
14:18 < azarus> DONT TOUCH ANYTHING YOU MIGHT BREAK IT
14:19 < LissajousPattern> hahaha
14:19 < CrazyTux> ok
14:19 < LissajousPattern> nah don't stop
14:19 < section1> no..break and fix..thats the way to learn
14:19 < azarus> It is!
14:19 < azarus> But some users don't want that ;P
14:19 < LissajousPattern> keep breaking things so you can fix them and let the learning ensue
14:19 < section1> yeap
14:20 < LissajousPattern> azarus, I find most linux users are willing to accept at least a little of that
14:20 < section1> always with a backup of the important stuff
14:20 < LissajousPattern> even the noobs
14:21 < azarus> LissajousPattern: true, but he declared he wants none of that
14:21 < LissajousPattern> in fact as a n00b myself one of my favorite pass times is breaking linux
14:21 < LissajousPattern> azarus, oh sorry I must have missed that. Its ok one day that fear will leave them.
14:22 < LissajousPattern> Don't let fear stop you from experimenting the worst that can happen is having to start all over.
14:23 < JimBuntu> I don't mind breaking Linux, I simply don't want it to be on a machine I have to maintain.
14:23 < LissajousPattern> that is understandable
14:24 < jim> there is room for "don't touch that" if the person you're saying it to is starting out or doen't know about some particular thing you're working on... and, if it's your machine and you get a problem of some kind, you do have a choice to try to fix it or at least explore it to see what's wrong
14:24 < LissajousPattern> honestly though for a new user who does not have anything of value on a system per say, I would not be afraid of anything breaking.
14:25 < jim> yeah, true... I'd hate to lose a whole bunch of stuff
14:25 < JimBuntu> I agree, break away. With PROPER backups in place and no downtime issues, break away on your main machine(s).
14:25 < Humatiel> simple middle ground is to always make sure you have another OS that isn't being touched. That way if you decide that your fstab is offending you and you remove it your ok.
14:25 < LissajousPattern> this is not a you break you buy scenario but rather you bought it so break it with a hammer if you wish.
14:26 < JimBuntu> Saw someone the other day had backups and backups of those backups... sadly on the same drive and toasted the drive
14:26 < jim> more generally, there are ways to make you feel comfortable about hacking around
14:26 < donald> I learn linux system programming in c. I am going to make my first system call. I need to modify a file /include/asm_i386/unistd.h. I do not find this file yet. Is it in my IDE? In my system? What is the exact road to this file? What is the exact road? mabe /usr/include? I might have the bad linux architecture to do that.
14:26 < djph> JimBuntu: that ... is not a backup
14:26 < djph> donald: "locate unistd.h"
14:27 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, redudancy needs to be done with separate drives obviously well I guess not so obviously in his case
14:27 < Humatiel> you mean multiple copies running on the same local drive in the same userspace being handled by an inexperienced user isn't a backup?
14:28 < LissajousPattern> Humatiel, no its a backup of a backup of yet another backup... learn to read sheesh.
14:28 < LissajousPattern> and then you will be like man if only I had made just one more backup
14:29 < Humatiel> my fault. I'll go use google now so my failure gets shared with everyone.
14:29 < jim> I've never read or spoken sheesh before...
14:29 < LissajousPattern> Humatiel, that may prove to be quite productive.
14:29 < JimBuntu> Congratulations jim ! Another first has been attained.
14:30 < jim> yeah, after bringing my masq firewall generator back to life, that was an easy one
14:31 < LissajousPattern> jim, well I did not want that person taking me too seriously
14:32 < mightyminnie> hey all
14:32 < mightyminnie> anyone here use TMUX to run command automatically in split panes?
14:32 < LissajousPattern> which probably would not have happened anyway but hey CYA.
14:33 < Humatiel> I use split panes depending on the work
14:33 < mightyminnie> I'm looking to essentially take the main argument when I'm working in terminal
14:33 < mightyminnie> and automatically display a man/tldr command on the base argument
14:34 < donald> dijph apt install locate && locate unistd.h; does not returns nothng
14:34 < mightyminnie> i.e. i type chown -a and then the man page shows up in a split pane next to me detailing arguments
14:35 < section1> donald, find a guide aboout system call and kernel programming
14:35 < donald> section1 I have already one
14:35 < section1> so you need ther kernel sources.
14:36 < LissajousPattern> mightyminnie, thats a neat idea actually. there is bound to be a script for that.
14:36 < Humatiel> mightyminnie, assuming you have the proper permissions then I would look at this page: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10376251/linux-write-commands-from-one-terminal-to-another
14:36 < Humatiel> obviously verify the link etc etc
14:37 < mightyminnie> nice
14:37 < mightyminnie> @humatiel sounds good
14:37 < Humatiel> tldr is its definitely possible but a pain unless your familiar enough with the system to set your own chmod levels on certain files
14:37 < section1> donald, and in the new kernel the files is : include/uapi/asm-generic/unistd.h
14:37 < mightyminnie> yeah I can chown/chmod stuff
14:38 < mightyminnie> not sure where the root permissions live but would love to find a script
14:38 < mightyminnie> also - major n00b question here - how do I highlight a name to call attention to someone, I'm used to the :argument: in slack
14:38 < mightyminnie> @Humatiel
14:38 < LissajousPattern> mightyminnie,
14:38 < LissajousPattern> like that
14:39 < mightyminnie> exactly
14:39 < mightyminnie> #?
14:39 < LissajousPattern> just type the nick and tab complete
14:39 < mightyminnie> LissajousPattern:
14:39 < mightyminnie> LissajousPattern: like this
14:39 < LissajousPattern> yup
14:39 < mightyminnie> +taco for LissajousPattern
14:39 < mightyminnie> thanks mate
14:39 < LissajousPattern> and depending on your client you will have either : or ,
14:39 < LissajousPattern> np
14:39 < LissajousPattern> anytime I good at the n00b questions
14:40 < LissajousPattern> I am*
14:40 < mightyminnie> oh, i might have to | some things in these scripts
14:40 < mightyminnie> this should be fun
14:40 < jim> mightyminnie, here's some material on tmux you might find useful: https://tmuxcheatsheet.com/ (config https://github.com/tony/tmux-config/blob/master/.tmux.conf)
14:41 < mightyminnie> jim: yeah this is nice, but opening URL's in my workflow in terminal is hella annoying and slow
14:41 < Humatiel> mightyminnie, you don't necessarily need to know the root structure to get what your looking for. As an example you can chmod an entire directory (including the root files) or just create symlinks and permission accordingly.
14:42 < Humatiel> obvious security holes aside it would be much faster for you.
14:42 < jim> maybe save em for later :)
14:42 < mightyminnie> jim: thanks m8
14:42 < donald> section1 asm-generic = asm_I386???
14:42 < LissajousPattern> also there is a way to invoke a new window with tmux keybindings
14:43 < LissajousPattern> with the same working dir
14:43 < mightyminnie> Humatiel: so you're saying a symlink is likely easier
14:44 < TheWild> ps eho pid,start_time
14:44 < Humatiel> I believe that LissajousPattern has found a better solution here. Do you have any unusual use-case for this such as live terminals, ssh keys etc.
14:44 < TheWild> start_time - wtf is this? Could it be a little more precise?
14:45 < TheWild> neither '12:11' nor 'Jan25' makes me happy
14:45 < section1> donald, realy not..i think you are reading an outdated guide..kernel changes every day.
14:45 < jim> mightyminnie, someone recently arranged shells to open under tmux... something about setting their login shell to tmux, and adjusting tmux config to start a particular shell
14:45 < LissajousPattern> Humatiel, yeah then all they would have to do is script the new window to run the command right?
14:45 < section1> donald, why you want to create a new syscall ?
14:46 < LissajousPattern> which should be pretty easy
14:46 < TheWild> oh, lstart
14:46 < mightyminnie> LissajousPattern: that's a good idea
14:46 < TheWild> not iso thought but still better. Reading that man is a pain.
14:47 < mightyminnie> LissajousPattern: have a split pane, run the script to pull the input from the other terminal into the side pane
14:47 < LissajousPattern> idk I am just pulling things from you know where
14:47 < LissajousPattern> something like that
14:47 < Humatiel> LissajousPattern, I don't know enough about his threat-model for what he is planning to suggest a way forward.
14:47 < LissajousPattern> I see
14:47 < mightyminnie> Humatiel: security is not a concern here
14:47 < LissajousPattern> yeah obviously neither do I
14:47 < LissajousPattern> well then
14:47 < NERD-k> How to input escape character in username when I use Point-to-Point Protocal over Ethernet?
14:48 < mightyminnie> Humatiel: or rather, less of a concern
14:48 < Humatiel> then yeah LissajousPattern has the better answer. smaller custom scripts on an as-needed basis.
14:49 < djph> "do one thing and do it well"
14:49 < jim> NERD-k, p2p is normally used when you have edge devices on either side of a connection, like a phone connection
14:49 < djph> NERD-k: "\" is generally understood as the escape-character (although depends on what you need to escape)
14:50 < Humatiel> btw jim thanks for linking this cheat sheet, adding it to my endless bookmarks.
14:50 < LissajousPattern> sorry for the disconnect
14:50 < section1> hum dsl use ppp over ethernet
14:50 < mightyminnie> ill find a script and link it here for ya'll
14:50 < mightyminnie> see what I can hack together
14:50 < LissajousPattern> cool good luck
14:51 < LissajousPattern> now I need to learn what tmux is
14:51 < LissajousPattern> first time I have heard of it
14:51 < NERD-k> djph: it didn't take effect if I modify chap-secrets...
14:52 < mightyminnie> wish i could send you a screenshot
14:52 < jim> mightyminnie, one way to do that: develop it using git, and publish that on (something like) github
14:52 < klotz> LissajousPattern: it's a terminal multiplexer
14:52 < mightyminnie> LissajousPattern: makes your life ^^
14:52 < Humatiel> https://linode.com/docs/networking/ssh/persistent-terminal-sessions-with-tmux/
14:52 < LissajousPattern> np I will google it and start using it asap
14:52 < mightyminnie> jim: not a bid idea, not sure people would actually want something like this though
14:53 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, it really can be useful (tmux)
14:53 < Humatiel> if your making it anyway you may as well.
14:53 < jim> well something inspired you to offer it
14:53 < LissajousPattern> oh I don't doubt that
14:53 < LissajousPattern> I have found everything I have learnt thus far regarding linux to be quite useful indeed
14:55 < Humatiel> are you a student by chance? I'm not sure if I can ask that here but if you are then an .edu email will give you 90 days of pluralsight for free.
14:55 < Humatiel> a good resource for learning things quickly
14:55 < djph> NERD-k: ... what?
14:56 < LissajousPattern> Humatiel, was that @mightyminnie ?
14:56 < Humatiel> LissajousPattern, I made it for him but then you mentioned learning linux so just sort of put it out their.
14:56 < LissajousPattern> cause I am not a student but an autodidact.
14:56 < LissajousPattern> just wondering
14:56 < Humatiel> I see
14:57 < mightyminnie> Humatiel: yes
14:58 < mightyminnie> Humatiel: not sure I want to post my student email on IRC though lol
14:58 < Humatiel> my advice is don't. Pluralsight gives you 90 days free access though.
14:58 < Humatiel> may be worth checking out to learn some things
14:58 < NERD-k> djph: I modified the PPPoE config like `\r\nusername` in the file *chap-secrets*, but it didon't work.
14:59 < NERD-k> didn't work
14:59 < mightyminnie> Humatiel: cool - our library also has free courses to lynda.com, udemy etc
14:59 < mightyminnie> Humatiel: public libraries are awesome! - i'll be sure to check out pluralsight too, sounds cool
15:00 < Humatiel> mightyminnie, how is lynda.com doing? I looked at it some in early 2017 but havent had a chance to since then.
15:00 < djph> NERD-k: why on earth would you have a username prepended with CR/LF?
15:01 < LissajousPattern> is it illegal to get free wifi from a public library even if you are not at the library?
15:01 < mightyminnie> Humatiel: acquired by LinkedIn, their content isnt bleeding edge but not like bash scripting ahs changed so much
15:01 < Humatiel> LissajousPattern, no it's not.
15:01 < LissajousPattern> I mean our taxes pay for that right so there is no real theft of service
15:02 < warbo> hello, I've plugged a USB keyboard into my laptop, and it's found by dmesg, but doesn't seem to produce events (e.g. when dumping /dev/hidrawXXX or /dev/input/by-id/XXX)
15:02 < LissajousPattern> Humatiel, word cause I was thinking about doing that here as I am only a couple of blocks away
15:02 < warbo> if I rmmod the usbhid driver and modprobe it back, the keyboard works but my mouse stops working
15:02 < LissajousPattern> just need the right antenna
15:02 < warbo> any ideas how to debug?
15:02 < NERD-k> My University Internet need use that.
15:02 < NERD-k> djph: My University Internet need use that.
15:02 < Humatiel> LissajousPattern, libraries often will reduce speeds if your trying to download large files. Just something to be aware of.
15:02 < hiya> I am giving my laptop for internal cleaning, what command should i execute to know and match the hardware and specs once it is back, I doubt they might change RAM / HDD etc.
15:03 < LissajousPattern> Humatiel, thanks for the info
15:03 < djph> LissajousPattern: personally, I'd walk inside; at least that way there's AC
15:04 < djph> hiya: why?
15:04 < LissajousPattern> why is it then that we dont run mesh nodes off of them and serve the whole community?
15:04 < NERD-k> djph: that is the a part of authention.
15:04 < JimBuntu> re-use via mesh for others is probably a TOS violation
15:04 < djph> NERD-k: errr, not that I'm aware it's not ...
15:04 < Humatiel> LissajousPattern, libraries also seem to get their funding cut about every other year.
15:05 < LissajousPattern> I mean if I am paying for that service with my taxes I want it to be available whenever
15:05 < djph> LissajousPattern: because "redistribution" of service is likely against the ISP's TOS
15:05 < warbo> LissajousPattern: maybe liability for things done on the network
15:05 < LissajousPattern> djph, oh right
15:05 < djph> it *is* available whenever -> you just have to be in range of the library.
15:05 < LissajousPattern> did not think of that
15:05 < Humatiel> hiya, how detailed are you needing?
15:05 < LissajousPattern> djph, true but like I stated if it was meshed then...
15:06 < djph> LissajousPattern: then it would be against the TOS that your library signed with the ISP in question
15:06 < warbo> LissajousPattern: in the UK, one of the arguments against our "digital economy act" was that libraries, coffee shops, etc. would become liable for everything done via their connection
15:06 < LissajousPattern> but still the issue of redistribution
15:06 < JimBuntu> LissajousPattern, Do you have line of sight to the library? If so, depending on your mounting options, reaching it shouldn't be that hard of a task.
15:06 < LissajousPattern> warbo, oh isee
15:07 < LissajousPattern> JimBuntu, yeah pretty much
15:07 < LissajousPattern> I just need to set everything up
15:07 < hiya> Humatiel, basic enough to catch them
15:07 < LissajousPattern> so what if I meshed it out I dont have said agreement with the ISP
15:08 < LissajousPattern> would the ISP be able to track that?
15:08 < djph> LissajousPattern: then when you're found out, you're going to get nailed *HARD* for theft of services.
15:08 < LissajousPattern> I am not trying to do anything illegal however I do like to push limits every now and again
15:08 < LissajousPattern> djph, yeah I was wondering that
15:08 < LissajousPattern> so not a good idea at all
15:09 < Humatiel> hiya: https://www.binarytides.com/linux-commands-hardware-info/ will give you the commands necessary for hardware identification but if your looking for hash checks then it will require a little more work.
15:09 < djph> LissajousPattern: now, that assumes that the library has good enough staff to prove it wasn't them trying to do it (and then the county will probably come after you as well for the money they had to spend to fend off the ISP / etc.)
15:09 < LissajousPattern> I mean obviously I am not the only one to have thought about these things
15:09 < djph> otherwise, the library cuts the free wifi
15:10 < LissajousPattern> yeah got it
15:10 < LissajousPattern> well I am not going to do anything to ruin things for others I am simply curious about it
15:10 < Humatiel> hiya: the usual best practices here being that you should remove all easily accessable personal data and store it elsewhere as well as ensure any OS specific password containers are securely closed.
15:10 < hiya> Humatiel, my disk is FDE
15:10 < iodev> hi ya hiya!
15:11 < hiya> I am just worried if they would change some hardware like RAM | Wifi card and put a bad one
15:11 < LissajousPattern> djph, so you seem to know a bit about this, in what way would the ISP be able to locate the node?
15:12 < LissajousPattern> and would there be a way to obfuscate the traffic in such a way that they would have hell trying if they even bothered?
15:13 < Humatiel> hiya: I see two relatively fast options for this. The first is to just open it up and grab the model number off of them for comparison then do a benchmark now and when you get it back. The second being to look at their service agreement for damaged items/liability and look elsewhere if it doesn't meet your standard.
15:14 < hiya> Humatiel, third option is to be there only when they open it and clean it and talk nerdy to threaten them
15:15 < warbo> hmm, strange; when I look in /dev/input/by-id when the keyboard doesn't work the only keyboard is usb-Microsoft_Natural®_Ergonomic_Keyboard_4000-if01-event-kbd; after rmmod usbhid;modprobe usbhid this device still doesn't give out events, but there's another which does called usb-...._4000-if01-event-kbd
15:15 < conall> Hi. How do I add a permanent static route on a systemctl based distro, to be activated regardless of whether or not the interfact is connected?
15:15 < Humatiel> hiya: this is true, copy/pasta a few commands output and bring it with you. Even if it doesn't show more then what is in the computer they won't know that.
15:16 < warbo> oops, that second one should be ..._4000-event-kbd
15:16 < conall> I have tried the "route-iface" files as well as "static-routes" file but it does not work
15:18 < warbo> after rmmod/modprobe the mouse device *is* producing events, it's just not moving my X cursor
15:18 < donald> section1 my book is this one https://www.amazon.fr/Linux-programmation-exemples-exercices-corrig%C3%A9s/dp/210006780X/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1523971062&sr=8-5&keywords=linux+programmation+syst%C3%A8me+et+r%C3%A9seau
15:18 < donald> do you think it is outdated?
15:19 < section1> donald, 2003
15:19 < donald> :/
15:19 < section1> but you can adapt to new kernel for sure
15:20 < donald> section do you suggest me another book? the book The Linux Programming Interface-Michael Kerrisk is a bit hard for me
15:21 < iob> hello, i have 5 directories with lots of files and want to merge them into one directory, keeping all files and in case there are duplicates, keep the latest copy. mv seems to delete files / folders. which tools can you recomend to solve that problem?
15:21 < donald> section1 do you recommend at least The Linux Programming Interface-Michael Kerrisk ?
15:21 < section1> donald, try LDD3 maybe
15:22 < section1> donald, and the robert love books too are great
15:27 < donald> section do you have the reference?
15:27  * Psi-Jack unsheaths his sword, and goes after revoltingPeasant. :)
15:27 < nobody> hi :)
15:28 < Hdphn> being good at linux has no advantage
15:28 < Hdphn> no money to be gained. except ofc you are linux system administrator :P
15:29 < jim> donald, lots of times a header file is associated with a library... and in many dists, the compiletime parts and runtime parts of a library are separated... can you find out which lib this header unistd.h belongs to?
15:29 < mightyminnie> being good at linux has tons of advantages
15:29 < jim> sounds hard to carry
15:30 < donald> jim yes but there are a lot of unistd.h files
15:30 < rumpel> linux makes the world a better place
15:31 < jim> donald, ok... do you know which one you need?
15:31 < donald> jim no
15:31 < donald> but finally I will change book
15:31 < donald> but are you sure my book is really outdated?
15:32 < jim> what kernel are you writing for?
15:33 < donald> jim idk but I have debian
15:33 < donald> and wait
15:33 < donald> is this book https://www.amazon.fr/Linux-Programmation-syst%C3%A8me-exercices-corrig%C3%A9s/dp/2100748513/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523971920&sr=8-1&keywords=programmation+linux+syst%C3%A8me+et+r%C3%A9seau outdated too?
15:33 < azarus> ... I believe donald has quite a bit to learn
15:33 < donald> it seems to be then next
15:33 < donald> azarus what do I need to learn?
15:33 < azarus> a whole lot
15:33 < azarus> like... fundamentals
15:33 < donald> in c?
15:34 < azarus> not even that
15:34 < Hdphn> mightyminnie: such as?
15:34 < Hdphn> I dont see any
15:34 < Hdphn> lol
15:34 < Hdphn> other than learning or if you work for linux administration
15:34 < donald> azarus I do not understand
15:34 < paddy|> from januar 2016
15:34 < kazdax> i am finally using linxu to study
15:34 < kazdax> so excited
15:35 < kazdax> is linux still a better alternative to windpws
15:35 < kazdax> or did windows progress eventually to beat linux in the field ?
15:35 < jim> azarus, do you mean fundamentals of the kernel?
15:36 < donald> kazdax: it depends of what you say
15:36 < azarus> he doesn't seem to know what a kernel even is
15:36 < azarus> donald: without looking it up, what's a kernel?
15:36 < jim> azarus, or, fundamentals below-the-line of c?
15:37 < malina> kazdax, no windows was never near unix* rather, neither linux in terms of capabilities or use.. it had/has games, which was the selling point. Despite being a 90s os, it has persisted still but it's not gonna ever beat linux/unix in the 'field'
15:37 < malina> I find it humorous it's even around in 2018, shows what illegal lobbying can bag you ^^
15:38 < kazdax> you guys heard of the windows RT and what microsoft did
15:38 < kazdax> they stopped supporting the WIndows RT for suirface tablets
15:38 < kazdax> and now you can basiclly not download any usefull apps for that tablet
15:39 < jim> what's a RT?
15:39 < kazdax> its a type of windows used for tablets
15:39 < kazdax> its basiclly like windows 8
15:39 < s10gopal> anyone facing battery drain when  laptop is powered off ?
15:39 < section1> donald, for system call you can  check the kernel doc...https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.13/process/adding-syscalls.html
15:39 < djph> you're in the wrong channel ...
15:39 < djph> s10gopal: no
15:39 < kazdax> yea i dont want to talk about it ..just saying microsoft dosn care about its users or consumers
15:40 < kazdax> just how much money they can banl
15:40 < kazdax> bank
15:40 < mightyminnie> Hdphn: manipulating computing to do things for you that you don't want to do
15:40 < Hdphn> thats programming kid
15:40 < Hdphn> lol
15:40 < mightyminnie> Hdphn: you specified "Linux"
15:40 < mightyminnie> be more specific
15:40 < mightyminnie> bash?
15:40 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: This is ##linux. We don't need the added noise of Microsoft or Windows complaining/whining here. Can you kindly stop that?
15:40 < mightyminnie> ubuntu?
15:40 < mightyminnie> RHEL?
15:40 < Hdphn> programming is never limited to "linux"
15:41 < Hdphn> bash? powershell is there
15:41 < kazdax> okay
15:41 < Psi-Jack> Thank you.
15:41 < mightyminnie> lol, you are aids
15:41 < mightyminnie> sad really
15:41 < mightyminnie> this is a good community
15:42 < kazdax> GDB is cool
15:42 < kazdax> i am using nano as a editor
15:42 < kazdax> dont know if i should learn VM ..i remember learning alittle VM and it was really cool
15:42 < Psi-Jack> nano is more of a mail composer.
15:43 < kazdax> good books on VI ?
15:43 < Psi-Jack> No need, there's vimtutor built-in.
15:43 < Psi-Jack> Just run vimtutor, learn vim. :)
15:44 < kazdax> cool thanks
15:45 < paddy|> be overwhelmed with features
15:46 < klotz> and that's without the plugins
15:47 < Psi-Jack> Really have been liking that "Ultimate Vim" configuration.
15:48 < o|Oo^|> i lernted all the cool vim tricks thru utube vid
15:48 < donald> azarus: a kernel is the processus of the os that permittes to manage and optimize the input / output of the different components of the computer. We should not cofound with the OS that os the kernel + the user friendly virtual machine
15:49 < Psi-Jack> o|Oo^|: "learned", "through", "youtube", "videos"
15:50 < azarus> donald: you 100% looked that up
15:51 < djph> Psi-Jack: would've been faster to just read the manpage :)
15:51 < donald> azarus rofl no I have read the famous old book about linux. theexamples and exercises may be outdated but the concepts stay the sames :)
15:51 < Psi-Jack> djph: Eh?
15:52 < donald> and the reading of the book was pretty recent for me ;)
15:52 < donald> but I told you just by remembrance
15:52 < azarus> donald: of course. and still you're confused by the simplest of concepts.
15:52 < azarus> Oh well. Good luck.
15:52 < djph> Psi-Jack: "Learned through youtube videos"
15:52 < donald> azarus D: what?
15:53 < donald> I was wrong?
15:53 < Psi-Jack> djph: Heh, was correcting o|Oo^|'s horrible English. ;)
15:53 < Psi-Jack> That was obviously intentional.
15:54 < o|Oo^|> my teachers didn't learn me good in skool
15:54 < djph> Psi-Jack: I know, but it's funny because "watching a video"
15:55 < Psi-Jack> heh
15:55 < djph> o|Oo^|: "teach", "well", "school" ... then again, the teacher-student relationship is bidirectional.
15:55 < Humatiel> you should never let school get in the way of your education
15:56 < Psi-Jack> Kids these days. :)
15:56 < donald> what do yu thhink of waht azarus todl?
15:57 < Psi-Jack> donald: "you" not "yu" for future self corrections. And just a couple minor corrections in addition. "think", "what", told"
16:09 < fraktor> I'm trying to make a script that creates a zip archive. I'd like to get the contents of a particular directory and add that to the zip file without keeping that directory itself as part of the archive, i.e. I want "src/path/to/file.txt" to become "path/to/file.txt" in the archive. How can I do this?
16:10 < Psi-Jack> Why zip?
16:10 < JimBuntu> fraktor, you could create the zip with recursion from the place in your path where you want the files to start from
16:11 < djph> fraktor: cd src || die; (archiver_of_choice) ./path/to/file
16:11 < Psi-Jack> cd src && archiver
16:11 < Psi-Jack> no need for the || die
16:12 < fraktor> There are other directories that I need to include that do need to preserve that directory structure.
16:12 < Psi-Jack> Still, why zip?
16:12 < paradis> hi
16:13 < paradis> can I run Kali on 1GHz old laptop?
16:13 < ayecee> who's going to stop you?
16:13 < fraktor> That's the algorithm that I need to use. I'm actually generating .love files for Love2D so I can distribute a game, and that requires the ZIP archive forrmat.
16:13 < fraktor> I can use another utility that writes zip though.
16:13  * Psi-Jack takes a gun to paradis's head. "No."
16:13 < Psi-Jack> :)
16:13 < ayecee> that's.. that's kind of hostile.
16:13 < ayecee> please don't do that again.
16:14 < Psi-Jack> Well, it was Kali....
16:14 < moniker--> '/topic
16:14 < paradis> where are anonymous?
16:14 < ayecee> everywhere
16:14 < paradis> where are they?
16:14 < moniker--> Psi-Jack Elitism is also not allowed, and includes bashing other channel participants for their choice of distro.
16:15 < fraktor> Psi-Jack: If you have another utility recommendation, I'd be glad to hear it.
16:15 < moniker--> since you are a guy obsessed with enforcing rules on others it would be nice that you actually do it yourself
16:15 < Psi-Jack> fraktor: Well, This is Linux. There is of course, tar and your choice if compression, gz, bzip2, xz, etc.
16:16 < Psi-Jack> I was just reacting mostly to ayecee's statement. If it wasn't funny, then my apologies.
16:17 < moniker--> ofc it wasn't funny
16:18 < Psi-Jack> "of course" and you know better.
16:18 < paddy|> i wonder why nobody asks for a distro the other way around - more secure
16:18 < moniker--> ofc i know
16:18 < ayecee> moniker--: thanks for your input, now let's move on.
16:18 < moniker--> and i'll continue saying ofc i don't find it's part of shtspeak
16:18 < Psi-Jack> !ops moniker-- shtspk
16:18 < ayecee> well damn. there goes the moral high ground.
16:19 < moniker--> !ops Psi-Jack is acting autistic
16:19 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: You tried. :)
16:20 < paddy|> i would like to integrate the features of Qubes, Kali and OpenSUSE Tumbleweed in ONE place
16:20 < o|Oo^|> u guys are funny
16:20 < uplime> b 5
16:20 < Psi-Jack> "u" isn't here to be funny.
16:21 < DLange> u asked for it too much PJ
16:22 < ayecee> heh, PJ
16:23 < paddy|> so many users with feedback. i need to patent my ideas
16:27 < r1ppa> Trying to solve a challenge of dbdumps on a remote system, I need to get the target machine to use its version of mysqldump as the backup source has much older one and will not work.
16:27 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: What's the problems you are facing?
16:28 < r1ppa> this is what I have so far - "for I in `mysql -h remote.server -uroot -ppassword -e "show databases" | grep -v 'tmp\|innodb\|Database\|information_schema\|performance_schema\|mysql'`; do ssh root@remote.server 'mysqldump --max_allowed_packet=1G -uroot -ppassword $I | gzip -c > $I.`date +'%a'`.sql.gz; done"
16:29 < r1ppa> Psi-Jack, I usually just mysqldump from backup server and call to remote db's, but this time the remote db needed a newer mysqldump
16:29 < Psi-Jack> From backup system, if it's the one initiating the backup. ssh dbserver mysqldump > localfile.sql   -- Create a custom key for this operation to restrict it, and in the dbserver host, drop it into an unprivileged user's authorized keys with command="mysqldump ..." ssh-e25519 ....
16:30 < r1ppa> Psi-Jack, this older backup system is not being upgraded, but replaced, but for now I need to solve the challenge...easiest thing I can think of is ssh and mysqldump using the target machine, then bring that db over
16:30 < peetaur2> r1ppa: always dump on the source...  simple example:      date=$(date +%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%z); ssh somemachine mysqldump -u ${dbUser} -p"${dbPass}" "${dbName}" \| gzip -c > "backup_dest_file_${date}.sql.gz"
16:30 < Psi-Jack> Actually skip that first part. If you do the command="mysqldump ...", then when you ssh to the host with that specific key, it will just run the dump and and you can redirect that to a file.
16:31 < r1ppa> ok hold up, I am trying to catch up here
16:31 < r1ppa> right now I got syntax issues in my paste
16:31 < peetaur2> and for all databases, use --all-databases instead of db name
16:32 < r1ppa> hmm, why am I iterating the db's, I guess to avoid downloading my "grep -v" list heh
16:33 < r1ppa> oh wait, all-databases does not put them into individual files, bad
16:33 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: Just have the database server backup user+key setup to do all your backups to stdout. When the backup server ssh's in with the exact appropriate key, it will get all the dumps.
16:33 < Psi-Jack> Oh, individual files? heh.
16:34 < r1ppa> Psi-Jack, you lost me with this key talk
16:34 < Psi-Jack> ssh basics 101.
16:34 < r1ppa> Psi-Jack, yes I NEED each db (a client DB) seperate and to keep about 1-2 weeks
16:34 < r1ppa> oh your talking public key
16:34 < peetaur2> r1ppa: automated stuff should use a passphraseless pubkey
16:35 < r1ppa> yeah I am sorry
16:35 < r1ppa> not sure why that went above my head there
16:35 < peetaur2> r1ppa: so stick a key in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys ...and he is suggesting adding a command in that file (it isn't just key...you can do all kinds of things) ...so that command would do the dump and your ssh command would be shorter
16:35 < Psi-Jack> You could always make a ssh key for each database.. But that'd be painful.
16:35 < r1ppa> so I still want individual mysqldumps, so the for loop remains I suppose
16:35 < r1ppa> key to a database?
16:36 < peetaur2> you could hardcode the db name in the authorized_keys file...but to pick the right line in that file to use, you use a different key per line
16:36 < r1ppa> I have 1 DB server, with 22 databases I want all backed up
16:36 < Psi-Jack> Well, using authorized_keys's "command" option for a key, only allows that key to run one command, nothing else.
16:36 < peetaur2> generating it once would be ok, but updating it would be annoying
16:36 < Simbaclaws> what's a good place to share a tux wallpaper I've made?
16:37 < r1ppa> wow you lost me
16:37 < peetaur2> another option is to make your command in the file some script that takes args (but not every arg that mysqldump might take) ... so look that up
16:37 < peetaur2> practice the components we gave you and you'll become unlost
16:37 < r1ppa> are you saying a special key can magically make the command apply to bring in a SPECIFIC db?
16:37 < Psi-Jack> Ahh here we go.
16:37 < r1ppa> how the frack
16:37 < Dagmar> It's called "writing simple shell scripts"
16:38 < Dagmar> It's a thing you're expected to be able to do as a system administrator
16:38 < r1ppa> but how is the key associated with running mysqldump automagically
16:38 < Psi-Jack> authorized_keys: command="mysqlbackupscript $SSH_ORIGINAL_COMMAND",no-port-forwarding,no-x11-forwarding,no-agent-forwarding KEY_TYPE KEY COMMENT
16:38 < Dagmar> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/402615/how-to-restrict-ssh-users-to-a-predefined-set-of-commands-after-login
16:38 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: With that, and a backup script made on the database server, you could run, from the backup server, with a custom key intended strictly for backups: ssh dbhost databasename
16:39 < Simbaclaws> what if you're running on a shared host without ssh access?
16:39 < peetaur2> ssh client sends key... (ssh -i .ssh/some_specific_key) ...server looks for the key in authorized_keys and sees a command there too which might say a specific db name, and runs that
16:39 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: > databasename.sql
16:39 < Dagmar> Then you can ask the magical internet fairies to get it for you
16:39 < r1ppa> thats so cool!
16:39 < Psi-Jack> The $SSH_ORIGINAL_COMMAND magic makes it possible. :)
16:39 < r1ppa> I have been a sysadmin for 15 years, and never had to play with this
16:40 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: Well, I'm a senior systems engineer. :)
16:40 < r1ppa> I must learn this right now
16:40 < Dagmar> That's better
16:40 < r1ppa> gdi I am getting side tracked
16:40 < r1ppa> but this is good learnin
16:41 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: NOD will own you. :)
16:41 < ice9> anybody familiar with usbguard?
16:41 < Psi-Jack> ice9: Ask better questions, don't poll.
16:42 < Simbaclaws> where can I share a wallpaper I've made with a tux logo?
16:42 < Psi-Jack> Simbaclaws: Google.
16:42 < Psi-Jack> Simbaclaws: Do you have a Linux question now?
16:42 < Simbaclaws> nope, sorry
16:43 < revel> Simbaclaws: You could use the wallpaper in your kid's bedroom.
16:44 < Simbaclaws> I don't have any kids, I'm a kid myself... Should I put it in my bedroom?
16:44 < Simbaclaws> or at least I'm a pretty old kid
16:44 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: But yeah. ssh is pretty powerful. The command="..." stuff is not as well-known as the basics of ssh itself. :)
16:44 < ice9> adding resolution in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-monitor.conf has no effect after restarting X, but if i define the resolution in xorg.conf it works, any idea?
16:45 < Psi-Jack> ice9: Maybe try something later in sequence. 99, instead of 10.
16:46 < r1ppa> Psi-Jack, I really just want to patch this backup script up and move on, but now you introduced a whole new method....
16:46 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: A secure method. :)
16:46 < acresearch> people, has the GNOME developers fixed their desktop icon issue?
16:47 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: With the command method, for script-ability, you could translate the command "list" to provide a list of databases for the backup server to itterate through as well. :)
16:47 < peetaur2> acresearch: that's very vague
16:47 < Psi-Jack> acresearch: A box of boxes.
16:48 < Dagmar> ice9: Only enough to say that they're protecting against mostly nonexistant threats
16:48 < acresearch> Psi-Jack: you know when you can add icons to the desktop, usually it is turned off and we can turn in on from tweek tools, but GNOME has removed that function so we canot turn icons onto the desktop. have they fixed that?
16:49 < Psi-Jack> Icons? Desktop? Ewww.. Stop now.
16:49 < o|Oo^|> who are "they"??????
16:49 < dgurney> I think there's an extension that gives you desktop icons
16:49 < uplime> o|Oo^|: those guys
16:49 < r1ppa> Psi-Jack, while you gave me food for thought, how do I patch up my current for loop?
16:49 < Dagmar> The people making bad decisions over at GNOME
16:50 < ice9> Psi-Jack, that didnt work either
16:50 < angelo_ts> i have a framebuffer device /dev/fb0  that seems used from some process, how can i know who is using it ?
16:50 < Dagmar> Use lsof
16:50 < mawk> using lsof
16:50 < angelo_ts> thanks
16:50 < acresearch> o|Oo^|: the gnome developers
16:50 < acresearch> dgurney: yes from tweek tools, but that was removed too
16:51 < Psi-Jack> ice9: Please pastebin (see /topic, not pastebin.com) your monitor.conf you're trying to implement.
16:51 < angelo_ts> argh, my embedded rootfs does not have lsof
16:51 < dgurney> it's spelled "tweak"
16:51 < paddy|> acresearch: i would hit irc.gimp.net and try to be heared there
16:51 < acresearch> paddy|: what is that?
16:51 < paddy|> the Gnome folks hang out there, their IRC
16:51 < acresearch> oh
16:51 < ice9> Psi-Jack, https://bpaste.net/show/ffabbe731897
16:52 < acresearch> paddy|: ok i will as them there, but i am not complaining, i am just waiting for them to fix it so i can migrate back from xfce
16:52 < Simbaclaws> I have a linux question... I soon have a new desktop computer which I'm going to run a linux distro on (not sure which one yet), and I'm wondering whether I should start giving back to the comunity by helping development of some sort of DE or WM. Which one should I pick? Which have steep learning curves etc?
16:52 < Psi-Jack> ice9: Hmm. And the same thing is used in the xorg.conf?
16:52 < ice9> Psi-Jack, yep
16:53 < ice9> Psi-Jack, btw it's optimus laptop
16:53 < Psi-Jack> Oh. bleh.
16:54 < Simbaclaws> when doing any sort of DE development, what's a nice distro to pick and what would be a good DE to help develop for?
16:54 < Psi-Jack> ice9: That should technically work. What distro is that?
16:54 < ice9> Psi-Jack, Arch
16:55 < Psi-Jack> Simbaclaws: Any distro, any DE you want.
16:55 < Cobrax> Simbaclaws: That depends on what distro you prefer, I'd say KDE because the GUI does not look like something you'd do in a rush just to get it over with
16:55 < Simbaclaws> yeah I was thinking KDE aswell and then I'd go with KDE Neon
16:55 < Simbaclaws> but I'm still pretty new to c++
16:56 < Simbaclaws> so I'd have to learn quite a lot
16:56 < Cobrax> most GNOME apps lack seperators, group boxes, and decent looking tabs, I think they are using 'simplicity' as an excuse for being lazy
16:56 < Cobrax> Simbaclaws: Qt is essential when developing for KDE
16:56 < fofalee> hi
16:56 < fofalee> can't scroll in tmux
16:56 < Psi-Jack> Yes you can.
16:57 < Simbaclaws> I'm psyched to start learning
16:57 < Cobrax> fofalee: Ctrl -b then [
16:57 < Cobrax> use arrow keys or page down/up
16:57 < Cobrax> press q to quit scroll mode
16:57 < Cobrax> https://superuser.com/questions/209437/how-do-i-scroll-in-tmux?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa
16:57 < mawk> if you enable mouse mode you can scroll fofalee
16:58 < mawk> in ~/.tmux.conf: setw -g mouse on
16:59 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Heh, are you sure? Minor point releases of tmux might've changed that. Heh
16:59 < mawk> for the latest release on my debian yeah
17:00 < mawk> in the previous release it was another config option
17:00 < Psi-Jack> heh, that's my one complaint with tmux.
17:00 < Psi-Jack> Changing configuration syntax entirely, and bluntly.
17:00 < paradis> hi there! I need an extremely secure OS
17:01 < paddy|> paradis: try Qubes
17:01 < Psi-Jack> paradis: Try Linux.
17:01 < ayecee> try a v8
17:01 < djph> paradis: fill all external connectivity ports with epoxy, including power input.
17:01 < paddy|> or is the joke with Qubes already over?
17:02 < Psi-Jack> Heh, has Qubes even applied any mitigation to Spectre and/or Meltdown yet?
17:03 < pankaj_> Sometimes my 'space' key do not work. I have to press it again and again to get it active and however sometimes after it becomes active. I do not know what the heck the problem is. How to solve this problem?
17:03 < paddy|> you might direct that at the fedora developers
17:03 < Psi-Jack> paddy|: What?
17:03 < paddy|> Qubes bases on fedora
17:03 < Psi-Jack> Bases on. Is not actual.
17:03 < Psi-Jack> Quite different. :p
17:03 < paddy|> okay
17:03 < paradis> err.. paddy| Psi-Jack djph err I need something for 1GHz 2GB laptop
17:04 < paddy|> paradis: good luck
17:04 < Psi-Jack> paradis: Any distro.
17:04 < tonsofpcs> I can't seem to get multicast streams to appear in mythbuntu in a VM with an E1000 'card', Windows on a similarly configured host works fine.  The switch reports traffic matching the multicast streams flowing to the machine.  Is there somewhere in Ubuntu that it is told "only take multicast from this interface" or something similar that I need to fight with?
17:04 < acresearch> paddy|: what channel at irc.gimp.net?
17:04 < tonsofpcs> (testing with multicat)
17:04 < dgurney> Psi-Jack, yes... https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-linux-kernel/blob/stable-4.14/config-base
17:05 < dgurney> you can see they have both pti and retpoline enabled...
17:05 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: I see. Cool.
17:05 < paradis> is Lubuntu good? on security?
17:05 < dgurney> yes
17:06 < Psi-Jack> paradis: Only as good as  you.
17:06 < dgurney> seriously, most distros are perfectly secure unless the user is a moron
17:06 < tonsofpcs> and it doesn't show as subscribed in netstat -g...
17:06 < Psi-Jack> Security is up to you, the user, not the distros. That said, most major distros are reasonably configured out-of-the-box.
17:07 < Psi-Jack> tonsofpcs: ss
17:07 < tonsofpcs> Psi-Jack: hmm?
17:08 < Psi-Jack> tonsofpcs: netstat is obsoleted and broken. ss is current.
17:08 < tonsofpcs> Psi-Jack: ok....  on 16.04?
17:08 < moog> Yes tonsofpcs, on 16.04
17:08 < tonsofpcs> ok, so how do I see multicast groups in ss?
17:09 < Psi-Jack> Same way you would with netstat.
17:09 < Psi-Jack> Just replace the command with ss.
17:09 < paradis> im new to this so I dont know much. this chatroom is only on freenode webchat?
17:09 < Psi-Jack> paradis: This is IRC, not "webchat"
17:09 < BCMM> paradis: you can also connect with an IRC client
17:09 < tonsofpcs> Psi-Jack: yea, ss -g dumps usage information.
17:09 < paradis> BCMM: tq
17:09 < squigz> So I keep getting "page state" errors both in all my terminals (as messages) and in dmesg https://ptpb.pw/AL2TXYoab2jb_Jl2BKcmAhOzdvh2
17:09 < squigz> Thoughts?
17:10 < MrElendig> tonsofpcs: sidenote: https://baturin.org/docs/iproute2/
17:10 < moog> tonsofpcs: ip maddress show
17:10 < jim> Psi-Jack, that would be oftopically pedantic...
17:10 < tonsofpcs> cheers moog
17:10 < Psi-Jack> paradis: "thank you" not "tq" for future corrections.
17:10 < moog> you welcome
17:11 < paradis> Psi-Jack: thank you!
17:11 < tonsofpcs> so yes, the multicast group doesn't show there for some reason.  Maybe I'm missing a command to multicat *checks syntax*
17:11 < Psi-Jack> Muuuch better. :)
17:11 < squigz> Oh is this one of those channels where you can't say 'ty', gotta say the whole thing?
17:11 < squigz> Silliness
17:11 < Psi-Jack> jim: No comprende. Donde estas?
17:11 < Psi-Jack> squigz: Yes.
17:11 < paradis> is irc a server?
17:12 < rumpel> squigz, 4 sure
17:12 < BCMM> paradis:  https://freenode.linux.community/how-to-connect/ has the details you'll need to put in your IRC client
17:12 < tonsofpcs> squigz: there are a lot of users of IRC for whom English is not their first language.  Trying to translate idioms and arbitrary abbreviations causes difficulty in communication.
17:12 < squigz> tonsofpcs: *that* I can understand
17:12 < BCMM> jim: i notice https://freenode.linux.community/how-to-connect/ has instructions for XChat - should it perhaps be changed to "HexChat", to avoid encouraging people to use a broken, unmaintained client?
17:12 < squigz> tonsofpcs: But I've been in channels where they don't want you to even say "ty'. They need you to write out "thank you"
17:12 < squigz> Anyway once again...
17:12 < squigz> So I keep getting "page state" errors both in all my terminals (as messages) and in dmesg https://ptpb.pw/AL2TXYoab2jb_Jl2BKcmAhOzdvh2
17:13 < MrElendig> paradis: go to wikipedia.org, enter "internet relay chat" in the search box, press <enter>
17:13 < squigz> should I be worried?
17:13 < ayecee> BCMM: where's your sense of adventure?
17:13 < ayecee> squigz: probably yes
17:13 < squigz> ayecee: lovely
17:13 < paradis> but if I want to chat about religions. Is there a way in this irc?
17:13 < BCMM> paradis: IRC is a protocol
17:13 < squigz> ayecee: Any thoughts on what I can do to either verify it's a serious problem or not
17:13 < BCMM> paradis: there are a number of IRC networks out there. this channel is on the freenode network.
17:13 < ayecee> squigz: cold reboot, see if it goes away?
17:13 < squigz> *nods*
17:13 < squigz> Alright I'll try that
17:14 < BCMM> paradis: you can speak in this channel by connecting to any IRC server in the freenode network
17:14 < BCMM> paradis: chat about religion is for another channel. that channel is *probably* not on freenode.
17:14 < jim> squigz, yeah, there's a language policy (tonsofpcs has explained the reasoning); things like 2 4 y u r mt (as abbreviations for to for why you are empty) arent permitted here for at least those reasons
17:15 < paradis> BCMM: ok thank you!
17:15 < jim> BCMM, probably that would be good
17:15 < tonsofpcs> ok, changed my multicat syntax - seems I can't bind to a specific interface for multicast so it's binding to the first one... ifconfig -multicast doesn't seem to work anymore so how do I disable multicast on an interface with iproute2?
17:15 < tonsofpcs> nevermind, found it
17:16 < jim> BCMM paradis, and to speak here you need a nickserv acct and to be logged into it
17:16 < BCMM> paradis: by the way, IRC kind of has it's own terminology. when we say "channel" we're pretty much talkinag about what you called a "chat room"
17:16 < jim> paradis, which you are
17:16 < squigz> jim: Aye, some of those I can understand :)
17:16 < tonsofpcs> err... well, I found it and ran it but it didn't change anything.
17:17 < BCMM> jim: i must admit i'm a tiny bit confused that somebody with no idea of what IRC is has managed to identify with services, but i guess a few users can actually follow instructions
17:18 < ayecee> that's what they want you to think
17:18 < jim> BCMM, yeah, it's a little convoluted
17:18 < wondiws> I do "xtermset -geometry 80x80" and nothing happens...
17:18 < wondiws> how does xtermset geometry work?
17:19 < ayecee> pretty well
17:19 < tonsofpcs> ah, it needs a routE!
17:20 < squigz> ayecee: Looks like a reboot may have worked. If it happens again, what do you think?
17:20 < squigz> This is fairly brand new RAM... well, actually, everything
17:20 < squigz> Only used item is the GPU
17:20 < ayecee> best time for it to fail
17:20 < squigz> True lol
17:20 < squigz> I already have to RMA my PSU though. I hope I don't have to do the same for my memory
17:20 < ayecee> still, i don't know what would cause that. i'm not even quite sure what that is.
17:20 < squigz> Hm.
17:21 < tonsofpcs> I never thought to add a route for a multicast address because it's inbound traffic that appears but I suppose this does make sense with how multicast works
17:22 < Psi-Jack> heh
17:22 < Psi-Jack> Yep, routes are indeed needed. :)
17:22 < tonsofpcs> silly multicast and being all multicast like :)
17:27 < IoriYagami> Hello
17:27 < jim> hi
17:28 < IoriYagami> I need to use a dictionary program in linux, I need it to be gui and have thesaurus. Know of a program name ?
17:28 < Psi-Jack> IoriYagami: Chrome. Webster.com
17:28 < IoriYagami> Offline.
17:28 < Psi-Jack> That seems silly.
17:29 < jim> what is it that you need from a dictionary program?
17:29 < IoriYagami> To be able to use the dictionary and thesaurus offline.
17:30 < jim> understood that from before... do you mean you want to look up word definitions and synomyms?
17:30 < djph> I hear merriam-webster has some quite nice ones, even work when the power's out
17:31 < IoriYagami> artha wordnet wordnet-base wordnet-sense-index
17:31 < IoriYagami> I found something.
17:31 < jim> what distribution of linux do you run?
17:31 < IoriYagami> Yes jim, that's what a dictionary is for, to look up word definitions, and that's what a thesaurus is for, exactly for looking up synonyms.
17:31 < IoriYagami> Artha is a free cross-platform English thesaurus that works completely off-line and is based on WordNet.
17:32 < sssilver> hey guys, I wrote a program that multiple users on Linux machine can run; my question is -- where should I write the logs?
17:32 < sssilver> if I write it into /var/log then users' instances will override each other
17:32 < sssilver> what's the idiomatic way to do this in Linux?
17:32 < sssilver> many thanks
17:32 < marktr> Key the filename per user
17:33 < sssilver> marktr: that or use the home directory?
17:33 < marktr> That or the home directory, yes
17:33 < sssilver> or perhaps there should be some log service to which each process should submit the log?
17:33 < sssilver> I feel like one of these ideas ought to be more idiomatic
17:33 < sssilver> since it's such a classic problem
17:33 < Psi-Jack> sssilver: Output log to stdout. make the user handle logging
17:33 < djph> sssilver: what's wrong with appending to /var/log/somefile?
17:33 < sssilver> Psi-Jack: *stderr rather?
17:34 < Psi-Jack> stdout
17:34 < sssilver> djph: multiple users on the same box running the process in parallel
17:34 < djph> so?
17:34 < sssilver> Psi-Jack: I thought the proper place for logs was stderr?
17:34 < djph> you're writing the program, right?
17:34 < Psi-Jack> sssilver: For /errors/
17:34 < djph> no, stderr is for ERROR MESSAGES
17:34 < ayecee> not just for errors
17:34 < sssilver> are you guys sure? I thought that it was for all log
17:34 < Psi-Jack> sssilver: 100% sure.
17:34 < sssilver> my life has been a lie
17:34 < ayecee> it's for any messages that aren't the output of the program
17:35 < djph> sssilver: so, write your log message with a pid or calling username or ...
17:35 < sssilver> ayecee: yes that's exactly what I knew
17:35 < Psi-Jack> stderr was specifically designed for error messages.
17:35 < ayecee> debug messages, status messages
17:35 < MrElendig> journald solves this issue :p
17:35 < Psi-Jack> It can be abused wrongfully for other purposes, but that's not its purpose.
17:35 < MrElendig> (so does other proper logging systems)
17:35 < ayecee> wget's progress graph comes out on stderr
17:36 < ayecee> which makes sense, because you'd still want it even when you're downloading something to a pipe through stdout
17:36 < IoriYagami> Artha works great.
17:36 < BCMM> yeah, "just for errors" is too narrow
17:37 < BCMM> it's for any output of a program that not, like, "part of the programs actual output"
17:37 < IoriYagami> Nice interface without having to use browsers or when I am offline (Internet is sparse here)
17:37 < jim> IoriYagami, (I note in passing the sarcastic tone, and I didn't hit you with sarcasm, you might want to adjust your tone. I'm just trying to help, right now by gathering info. given that sarcasm is the act of conveying contempt by using irony, probably a good idea to just drop that part) I'm still curious, what has you want to do this offline? it means you would need to store the text of the dictionary and thesarus on your computer.
17:38 < IoriYagami> I'm not interested in that conversation. Thank you. I have work to do.
17:38 < djph> jim: I think he's prescient :) look right above :)
17:38 < djph> IoriYagami: dead-tree edition, or perhaps merriam-webster (etc.) sell *pdf
17:39 < djph> I mean, there's probably a program somewhere that would do it too, but ...
17:39 < jim> IoriYagami, that's lack of cooperation, and I'm likely to get pissed off at that.
17:39 < IoriYagami> Thank you for your suggestions. :)
17:39 < jim> IoriYagami, would you like to continue to be welcome here?
17:40 < Psi-Jack> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_streams#Standard_error_(stderr)
17:40 < Psi-Jack> Accurate description. :)
17:40 < Psi-Jack> Includes the example of why wget uses stderr for the progress bar. (for use in pipes)
17:41 < ayecee> aw man, i thought city of winnipeg computer auction ended on the 20th
17:41 < IoriYagami> jim: there was no sarcasm on my end. It is purely your own interpertation. Dictionary are exactly for looking up definitions as you said, and thesaurus for synonyms and more.
17:41 < ayecee> dammit, wrong channel.
17:42 < qoxncyha> just googled "do a barrel roll", was not disappointed
17:42 < IoriYagami> You asked something, I answered it enthusiastically. I ended up finding solution to my own question. I'm not sure what you are whinging about.
17:42 < Psi-Jack> sssilver: If said program just outputs a stream of logs, then stdout is definitely appropriate. :)
17:42 < IoriYagami> I have not been rude or out of line. But feel free to do as you wish. You were not helpful, and instead I was ridiculed and called silly.
17:42 < ayecee> sure, if the logs are the output of the program, that is, what the program produces
17:43 < IoriYagami> Have a really great day! :)
17:43 < ayecee> but logs are mostly a byproduct of a program doing something else, so stderr for those.
17:43 < acresearch> people who use gnome, if you don't put icons in the desktop like your working files, where do you add them?
17:43 < jim> IoriYagami, I didn't ridicule you or call you silly, I just asked questions
17:43 < qoxncyha> acresearch: apps in the launcher on the left
17:44 < acresearch> qoxncyha: not apps, files like directories and documents that you are currently working on
17:44 < prussian> IoriYagami: you can look into wiktionary as well
17:44 < prussian> they provide dumps of their db's as well
17:46 < IoriYagami> Oh, really
17:46 < IoriYagami> That's useful
17:46 < IoriYagami> I think for now artha works offline, and also has a wordnet cli thing I think.
17:47 < jim> IoriYagami, in the future, remember to adjust your tone, and please don't be so uncooperative. I don't consider the latter to be rudeness, but instead it goes to peaceful operation of the channel. I'll deal with Psi-Jack, I don't think the way he handled this situation was all that appropriate.
17:47 < IoriYagami> <IoriYagami> To be able to use the dictionary and thesaurus offline.
17:47 < IoriYagami> <jim> understood that from before... do you mean you want to look up word definitions and synomyms?
17:47 < IoriYagami> So what did you understand?
17:48 < IoriYagami> I don't understand why you'd ask that question. That's exatly what dictionaries and thesurauses are used for.
17:48 < ayecee> thesauri?
17:48 < IoriYagami> jim: sure. I'll adjust my tone.
17:48 < jim> thank you, I appreciate that
17:49 < IoriYagami> jim: I would also like to ask you to not ask obvious questions that waste time. Information gathering is good, sure, I am for it, but asking the right kind of questions is more useful. Simply confirming with me what a dictionary is used for and a thesausrus is used for turns into this.
17:49 < IoriYagami> We both know what they are used for. We need not confirm that with each other.
17:50 < jim> now that we;re here, I'm still curious why it has to be offline
17:50 < IoriYagami> Sparse connection
17:50 < IoriYagami> And at my house, I don't have it anyway, so I have to out to wifi and download things and come back home.
17:51 < IoriYagami> Surely, you are familiar with such poor conditions for some folks on this Earth.
17:51 < ayecee> getting a little smuggy in here
17:51 < jim> oh I see
17:51 < Sven_vB> can I use inotifywait to monitor USB devices being un/plugged?
17:51 < ayecee> Sven_vB: dunno. try it out?
17:51 < IoriYagami> Right, I don't have things, and I'm smug b/c I don't have things and have to make more effort than most. Man.
17:52 < IoriYagami> That's not hostile toward me at all.
17:52 < IoriYagami> But that's fine. I'll mind *my* tone.
17:52 < Psi-Jack> IoriYagami: "because" not "b/c" for future self corrections.
17:52 < ayecee> no, you're smug because of the condescending tone.
17:52 < jim> so really there's not a connection (or a reliable one) available at your location
17:52 < Sven_vB> ayecee, sorry. I'll refine my question.
17:52 < IoriYagami> Psi-Jack: goodbye :)
17:52 < IoriYagami> jim: no.
17:53 < IoriYagami> jim: I have none at home, and I have to out to library or coffee shops when the weather allows.
17:53 < jim> ayecee, please stop, I got this
17:53 < jim> how many machines do you have at home?
17:53 < IoriYagami> Just a laptop.
17:53 < dannylee> 2
17:54 < jim> ok, so an internal net is not indicated at all
17:55 < IoriYagami> Why are we continuing this? I found a solution, I have an offline dicitonary. Anyway, you tell me to mind my tone while others are free to be sarcastic and hostile toward  me and the funcitoning of your channel. Then you ask me about some Internal network which doesn't matter. I don't have an Internet connection. Your questions are mostly useless.
17:55 < IoriYagami> *sigh* Go on. Ban me. I'm done. You're not helpful.
17:55 < ayecee> )`:
17:56 < ayecee> want some wax for your cross
17:56 < turbo64> thats enough playing with the new ubuntu
17:56 < turbo64> back to good old fedora
17:56 < jim> IoriYagami, oh, and, so that you're aware, there is a policy (mostly meant to maximize understanding) about language and abbreviations
17:56 < turbo64> i noticed there wasnt any amazon bullshit in it but thats probably because i did the minimal install
17:57 < turbo64> im sure its still sending my search info to them though
17:57 < turbo64> fuck ubuntu
17:57 < IoriYagami> You have provided me with zero help so far, all you've done is waste your time and my time and the channel's time with your emotional drama. I'm done.
17:57 < IoriYagami> Have a really great day! :)
17:57 < Psi-Jack> turbo64: Kindly mind your language, please.
17:57 < turbo64> lol
17:57 < turbo64> what did i miss here
17:57 < ayecee> jim: let him go
17:57 < jim> turbo64, please watch your language
17:57 < djph> turbo64: that amazon thing's been ripped out for *years* now
17:57 < prussian> lol
17:57 < Dagmar> Welcome to four years ago
17:57 < turbo64> it still has amazon links in the dock when you first install it
17:58 < turbo64> so whatever their deal is with amazon is still going
17:58 < ayecee> oh man, i _wish_ time travel were that easy
17:58 < turbo64> if i wanted ads in my os id run windows 10
17:58 < |o^o|0> loool
17:58 < Psi-Jack> or 8.
17:58 < jim> IoriYagami, at least it wasn't for lack of trying
17:58 < djph> turbo64: *links*.  The automated "send searches to amazon" thing got ripped out forever ago.
17:58 < turbo64> well im too lazy to look at hte source code and verify that for myself
17:59 < turbo64> so i dont trust them
17:59 < turbo64> its weird, red hat got so much flak for making money off linux
17:59 < mightyminnie> any tmux gangsters here? https://imgur.com/a/OqY8w
17:59 < turbo64> even though they literally gave everything they did back to the foss community
17:59 < SuperSeriousCat> I tried this NAS Linux Station thingy. The Ubuntu 16.06 had Amazon on the left on a fresh install. Links or not, I feel that kind of things got nothing to do in an OS
17:59 < IoriYagami> jim: please stop trying. You're more interested in telling people what to do. Ops like you are very easy to manipulate if one were so inclined. I'm not. I'd rather be honest and be banned than be dishonest and play your childish games.
17:59 < turbo64> and even encouraged people to make a free version of rhel
18:00 < Sven_vB> ayecee, found a good-enough solution, inotifywait --quiet --event ACCESS /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb[0-9]*/
18:00 < ayecee> nice
18:00 < mightyminnie> trying to run a tldr command via ~/bash_history - I've figured out the gui and am now trying to run the history command but running into permissions issue
18:00 < Psi-Jack> mightyminnie: Yo! You want yo birthday snatched dawg?
18:00 < turbo64> but canonical does all their shady stuff and nobody seems to mind
18:00 < ayecee> jim: yeah, you got this alright :P
18:00 < turbo64> i guess because they put out an os that automatically installs proprietary codecs for you
18:00 < |o^o|0> Psi-Jack: "your" not yo
18:00 < turbo64> uh oh
18:01 < mightyminnie> Psi-Jack: where?
18:01 < ayecee> slow clap
18:01 < Psi-Jack> mightyminnie: Where? Odd question to the gangster slang. :p
18:02 < mightyminnie> Psi-Jack: shiiiiii
18:02 < turbo64> i noticed that richard stallman says debian is not free software because you have the option of installing nonfree software on it
18:02 < turbo64> so wouldnt that mean nothing is free software
18:02 < prussian> no, he simply doesn't endorse it
18:02 < uplime> turbo64: rms has some... interesting views on software
18:02 < istevenmon> hi guys, is there a way to create a netcat tunnel to redirect a port to an https server? When i create the tunnel it drops as soon as it connects
18:02 < uplime> jim: you use hexchat right?
18:02 < turbo64> i think he goes a little too far
18:02 < Psi-Jack> mightyminnie: Tip: Provide details, provide surrounding details. Don'
18:03 < uplime> istevenmon: perhaps look into a reverse proxy?
18:03 < jim> uplime, I do
18:03 < uplime> jim: you might like cd.py
18:03 < Psi-Jack> mightyminnie: Don't ask to ask. Just Ask. :) And lastly, "gangsters" aren't good. Might wanna refraim from such words. ;)
18:03 < jim> what's that?
18:03 < uplime> finding the link now
18:03 < uplime> but mniip wrote it so you know its ok-ish
18:04 < istevenmon> or even better how can i open a remote ssh tunnel to listen in 0.0.0.0 and not local interface
18:04 < uplime> https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat-addons/tree/master/python/cd
18:04 < turbo64> i like that video of richard stallman having a public meltdown in brazil
18:04 < Psi-Jack> istevenmon: What are you really trying to do?
18:04 < mightyminnie> Psi-Jack: kk
18:04 < uplime> istevenmon: 0.0.0.0 is all interfaces
18:05 < turbo64> that was like the nerd version of kelsey grammer falling off stage
18:05 < BMO-noire> could someone please give me an example for updating and installing applications (apt-get) through parallel-ssh? the following is from the man page and works for echo, but I can't seem to adapt it for apt-get: parallel-ssh -i -h .pssh_hosts_files -A -l root echo hi
18:05 < turbo64> or the video of him picking fungi off his feet and eating it
18:05 < istevenmon> i am trying to create a remote ssh tunnel and tunnel it to a local tunnel. ssh from server A to B:  555:A -> 555:B -> 80:C
18:05 < Psi-Jack> istevenmon: What are you really trying to do?
18:05 < istevenmon> sorry sshd from B to A
18:06 < ananke> BMO-noire: define 'can't'. what are the symptoms?
18:07 < Psi-Jack> istevenmon: As in, what are you /actually/ trying to do? What problem are you trying to solve? What's the reasons you're trying to use tunneling?
18:07 < prussian> istevenmon: you might be interested in ProxyJump
18:08 < prussian> personally I just use a tinc (vpn) network for that instead though
18:08 < BMO-noire> @anake well, continual confusion is a symptom... which may arise from a general sense of 'i have no idea what I'm doing'
18:09 < Psi-Jack> Why is that dog on the steering wheel of that tractor?
18:10 < BMO-noire> @ananke ^
18:10 < Trel> When using Pine/Alpine, is there any way to choose the SMTP server when composing a message or change which one mid-message?
18:10 < ananke> BMO-noire: so describe what you do and what happens.
18:11 < BMO-noire> @ananke the following: parallel-ssh -i -h .pssh_hosts_files -A -l root apt-get update
18:11 < BMO-noire> results in an error message
18:12 < mniip> 1523981025 [19:03:45] <uplime> but mniip wrote it so you know its ok-ish
18:12 < ananke> BMO-noire: and that error message would be what?
18:12 < mniip> I wrote what
18:12 < BMO-noire> [8] 12:10:52 [FAILURE] ___@192.168.1.115 Exited with error code 100
18:12 < BMO-noire> Reading package lists...
18:12 < BMO-noire> Stderr: W: chmod 0700 of directory /var/lib/apt/lists/partial failed - SetupAPTPartialDirectory (1: Operation not permitted)
18:12 < BMO-noire> E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
18:13 < BMO-noire> E: Unable to lock directory /var/lib/apt/lists/
18:13 < BMO-noire> W: Problem unlinking the file /var/cache/apt/pkgcache.bin - RemoveCaches (13: Permission denied)
18:13 < BMO-noire> W: Problem unlinking the file /var/cache/apt/srcpkgcache.bin - RemoveCaches (13: Permission denied)
18:13 < Trel> BMO-noire: root/sudo?
18:13 < Psi-Jack> BMO-noire: Pastebin sites are important to use to not flood IRC channels.
18:13 < Dagmar> Gotta be done as root
18:13 < ananke> BMO-noire: you're not root
18:13 < Dagmar> If joe user accounts could change the systems installed software inventory, well... that would be _bad_
18:14 < ozymandias> Dagmar, or windows.
18:14 < ozymandias> ;-)
18:14 < BMO-noire> changing root to sudo results in the same error (sorry for the flood)
18:14 < ozymandias> it wasnt until 7 that they started being sane avout that
18:15 < prussian> BMO-noire: obviously you don't have the appropriate privileges on 192.168.1.115
18:15 < BMO-noire> oh neat, so if I run sudo .... with root apt-get update I get a new error
18:15 < BMO-noire> Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)?
18:16 < Psi-Jack> What is "changing root to sudo"?
18:16 < ananke> BMO-noire: so pass the right flags to apt-get to not prompt for questions
18:16 < ozymandias> Psi-Jack, he is using the username 'root' in an ssh connection
18:17 < ozymandias> he likely blindly swapped that with sudo, not understanding the tools he is using
18:17 < uplime> mniip: cd.py
18:17 < uplime> the chanserv op helper tool thingy
18:17 < Psi-Jack> Hence, I asked for clarification from the one that said it.
18:17 < ozymandias> ananke, that looks like ssh no key as the local root
18:17 < BMO-noire> thank you for the suggestions, this is getting me closer-- $ sudo parallel-ssh -i -h .pssh_hosts_files -A -l root apt-get -y update
18:17 < ananke> ozymandias: not sure why you're telling me that
18:18 < ozymandias> sudo parallel-ssh  <-- now the local root doesnt have the appropriate ssh keys saved
18:18 < ozymandias> ananke, because you implied it was a prompt from apt, it was not, it was from ssh
18:18 < BMO-noire> i have keys working-- I can ssh in without password prompts
18:18 < BMO-noire> (but not with parallel-ssh)
18:18 < ananke> ozymandias: you inferred it. I didn't imply it.
18:18 < ozymandias> BMO-noire, but not as local root, as that error showed
18:19 < BMO-noire> how can I set that up?
18:19 < ozymandias> ananke, you explicitly stated it. "<ananke> BMO-noire: so pass the right flags to apt-get to not prompt for questions" -- the question was not from apt, it was from the ssh system
18:20 < ozymandias> there are no flags to pass to apt-get that will stop an ssh prompt, afaik
18:20 < ananke> ozymandias: I see, my bad. am not familiar enough with apt-get messages. and no, I wasn't trying to imply anything else
18:20 < BMO-noire> my current error is: https://pastebin.com/L31CEYCB
18:20 < ozymandias> ananke, thats why I told you -- I assumed everyone here is willing to learn -- I know I am :-D
18:21 < ozymandias> BMO-noire, manually accept the keys first
18:21 < BMO-noire> how?
18:21 < moniker--> what do you guys think of this image in an article about cyber attack http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/7923966-3x2-700x467.jpg
18:21 < ozymandias> ssh to that host from the user you want to run parallel-ssh as
18:22 < ananke> ozymandias: frankly, there's a threshold of things I pay attention to. this isn't a problem I'm particularly interested in, but thanks for trying
18:22 < BMO-noire> when I ssh individually, it lets me in without a prompt
18:22 < ozymandias> as the same user?
18:22 < ozymandias> because you randomly slapped a sudo in there
18:22 < Psi-Jack> BMO-noire: /topic provides an acceptable pastebin site. pastebin.com is often frowned upon, banned, breaks pastes, blocks themselves from users, etc.
18:22 < ozymandias> which means you are now using a different user to start the connection, BMO-noire
18:23 < BMO-noire> ohhh, I need to ssh in as root and accept the key
18:23 < ozymandias> ssh and sudo ssh are typically VERY different
18:23 < ozymandias> ssh--> runs as the current user, sudo ssh will run as root.
18:23 < ozymandias> locally
18:23 < Psi-Jack> So, my clarification question, which never actually got answers, was critical afterall.
18:24 < ozymandias> Psi-Jack, he has done both now, if you look back
18:24 < ozymandias> BMO-noire, you likely do not need, or want sudo in this command at all
18:25 < ozymandias> you want to run it as the local non-priv user, and connect as root remotely -- there is no need to elevate the permissions locally to do what you need.
18:25 < ozymandias> parallel-ssh -i -h .pssh_hosts_files -A -l root apt-get -y update  <-- thats likely all you need
18:25 < Psi-Jack> "connect as root remotely?"
18:26 < ozymandias> connect as root on the remote host
18:26 < Psi-Jack> ozymandias: Shoot yourself in the foot.
18:26 < ozymandias> i'm not the one that set up that infrasturucture
18:26 < ozymandias> onve he gets what he has working, he can clean up the access
18:27 < Psi-Jack> Connect to remote host as regular unprivileged user, and escelate priviledges there. Or if this is for automation, lock down the commands to pre-defined ones.
18:27 < ozymandias> yup -- which, if he already has root ssh allowed, would be step two, not one, especially since he is struggling as it is
18:27 < BMO-noire> @oymandia that command results in: https://paste.linux.community/view/9115d367
18:28 < ozymandias> BMO-noire, are you copy/pasting the error? or are you altering it? ____ is a WEIRD username
18:28 < BMO-noire> haha, yes, I chopped out my username
18:28 < ozymandias> abnd redacting it is even weirder, since it was given in the command you were supposed to run
18:29 < ozymandias> are you NOT running it as root, as you previously stated you were doing?
18:29 < ozymandias> because apt-get needs to run as root,
18:29 < ozymandias> if the username is NOT root, you expect that error, for the painfully obvious reasons
18:29 < Psi-Jack> BMO-noire: Clearly state the process you're trying to perform.
18:30 < BMO-noire> ahhh, you got it I think, I did not change my username to root in the hosts file
18:30 < BMO-noire> if I understand correctly
18:30 < Psi-Jack> hosts file?
18:30 < BMO-noire> @Psi-Jack trying to run apt-get update through parallel-ssh
18:30 < Psi-Jack> Heh, /etc/hosts has nothing to do with usernames.
18:30 < Psi-Jack> Ahh
18:30 < ozymandias> Psi-Jack, thats not what he is talking about
18:30 < BMO-noire> no, .pssh_hosts_file, just something to store the various local usernames and IPs
18:31 < Psi-Jack> BMO-noire: Is this personal or production (business?)
18:31 < BMO-noire> personal
18:31 < Psi-Jack> BMO-noire: Is there a reason you're trying to wring yourself through parallel-ssh for all this? :)
18:31 < ozymandias> BMO-noire, you are going to want to set up passwordless sudo to run apt-get update -y (or better yet a wrapper script) for this
18:32 < ozymandias> you dont really want to connect via ssh as root -- and want to actually disable that access in the long run
18:32 < dgarstang> ssh question. Using ProxyCommand. The jump host always sshes to itself. Is there a way to stop that?
18:32 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: It doesn't ssh to itself. What are you /actually/ trying to do?
18:32 < BMO-noire> @ozymandias can you recommend an easier way to simply run apt-get update and install on a couple computers at the same time?
18:33 < Psi-Jack> BMO-noire: I can. Salt
18:33 < ozymandias> BMO-noire, copy/paste
18:33 < Psi-Jack> You can also use salt to maintain configuration of systems as well.
18:33 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: I have ProxyCommand working fine. However, when ssh-ing to jump host, which works fine, the jump host always uses itself as a jump host. I don't want that
18:33 < ozymandias> for a 'couple' hosts, ssh into each one and copy/paste
18:34 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: Jump Host? Why are you using ProxyCommand when ProxyJump already exists?
18:34 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: is that relevant? Will proxyjump solve my issue?
18:34 < Psi-Jack> ssh -J jumphost1,jumphost2,jumphostX destinationhost
18:34 < Psi-Jack> Too easy.
18:34 < ozymandias> salt/puppet/ansable/fork/fanout/parallel-ssh is a bit much for a small number of hosts, usually
18:35 < Psi-Jack> ozymandias: Completely disagree.
18:35 < ozymandias> unless, of course, you are learning
18:35 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: proxyjump is new?
18:35 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: Fairly. :)
18:35 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: Then I'd rather not rely on something not universally available
18:35 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: It is. It's part of openssh. :p
18:35 < Psi-Jack> Thus, universally available.
18:36 < ozymandias> Psi-Jack, not on all distros yet
18:36 < ozymandias> thus not universally available
18:36 < Psi-Jack> In all distros, yes.
18:36 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: Needs to be available standard on linux, mac and windows. I imagine proxhost is
18:36 < ozymandias> in all distros, no
18:36 < Psi-Jack> ProxyJump's been around for over a year, so msot distros already have it.
18:36 < ozymandias> no.
18:36 < ozymandias> many will
18:36 < ozymandias> not all
18:36 < dgarstang> Lets assume I only have proxyhost.
18:36 < Psi-Jack> macOS is the only one likely to possibly not have it.
18:36 < ozymandias> or enterprise OSes, or LTS variants.
18:36 < Psi-Jack> Because, well, macOS still has bash3.
18:37 < ozymandias> I just checked RHEL 6, and its not there.
18:37 < ozymandias> it is in 7 though.
18:37 < dgarstang> So, with proxyhost, is there a way to exlude the jumphost from using itself as a jumphost
18:37 < Psi-Jack> Well, EL6 is ~6 years old.
18:37 < ozymandias> and still in production use, and still supported.
18:37 < dgarstang> yeah well, we use 6 :(
18:38 < ozymandias> and still very much around for a while
18:38 < acresearch> how so i turn on the terminal beep? i am on xfce
18:38 < Psi-Jack> JumpHost only relies on the client machine.
18:38 < ozymandias> and the local ssh binary.
18:38 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: Right, so is there a way, on the client machine, to make jumphost not use the jump host... as a jump host
18:38 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: it doesn't.
18:39 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: it does. if I ssh to jump host, I see the soure when I run 'w' is the jump host not my cleint mahine
18:39 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack... because it ssh-ed to itself
18:39 < Psi-Jack> ProxyJump doesn't. ProxyCommand runs said command.
18:39 < Psi-Jack> That's d'uh. ;)
18:40 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: "Executing proxy command: exec ssh -q gw1 nc gw1.foo.com  22" ...
18:40 < dgarstang> where gw1 is defined elsewhere as gw1.foo.com
18:40 < Psi-Jack> So, use ProxyJump. :p
18:40 < dgarstang> What verion of ssh has that?
18:40 < Psi-Jack> There's a reason that functionality was added. :)
18:41 < Psi-Jack> 7.3
18:41 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: I have to muck with iptables. I don't want to have to allow local host to connect to itself because people have older ssh binaries
18:42 < Psi-Jack> 7.3 was released 8/1/2016.
18:42 < dgarstang> "You've got CentOS 6. Sorry you can't connect to the jump host. Go away"
18:42 < Psi-Jack> Well over a year now. :)
18:43 < dgarstang> sorry i should have phrased that as "You've got CentOS 6. Sorry you can't connect to anything. Go away"
18:43 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: ... What?
18:43 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: I don't want to have to add an iptables rule for the jump host to connect to itself which is what happens with ProxyCommand
18:43 < Psi-Jack> So, stop using ProxyCommand.
18:43 < Psi-Jack> It's that simple.
18:44 < ozymandias> dgarstang, you could set up aliases for users if you want to go that route
18:44 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: Ok, let's just say ssh can't do it then because I can't enforce a policy that denies people access based on the version of their client (within reason)
18:44 < ozymandias> sshj="ssh user@foo.com -x ssh", etc
18:44 < dgarstang> ozymandias: Howso?
18:44 < ozymandias> then they can sshj destination and it will jump... ish
18:45 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: you can't.
18:45 < ozymandias> ssh as their user to foo, then ssh again off that host
18:45 < ozymandias> not ideal, but can, and will, work
18:45 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: So, no use discussing what-if in an impossible situation. :)
18:46 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: yeah, ssh doesn't support it. Thanks
18:47 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: The real question is: How many users utilize said bastion host (aka jump host), that uses an old openssh that doesn't support ProxyJump? :)
18:47 < Psi-Jack> Should be jsut about nil these days, with the potential (unknown to me at this time), exception with macOS users.
18:47 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: I don't know. You have to assume lowest common demoninator
18:47 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: Most of our users use macos
18:47 < ozymandias> Psi-Jack, its the clients, not the jump host that matters, really
18:48 < Psi-Jack> Should check on that./
18:48 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: However, my ssh is 7.4 so it has it
18:48 < Psi-Jack> ozymandias: That's where I've been focused, on the clients.
18:48 < ozymandias> you can use -J with an older server and a newer client
18:48 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: you on a current macOS?
18:48 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: Yes
18:48 < Psi-Jack> Then.... There we go.
18:48 < Psi-Jack> All clients have it. :)
18:49 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: I replaced my ProxyHost with ProxyJump. Logged into bastion. Still shows me as logged in from baston, no my client IP
18:49 < Trel> When composing an email message in Pine/Alpine, is there any way to choose/change the SMTP server or am I restricted to the default and anything a role may have overridden?
18:49 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: Well, of course.
18:49 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: That was my original question
18:49 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: Client->Bastion->Destination will always show you coming from Bastion
18:49 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: You said ProxyJump would solve issue
18:49 < GreyHatNET> Hello there.
18:50 < twainwek> gray*
18:50 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: No, you asked about sshing to itself to initiate a tunnel with ProxyCommand.
18:50 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: There is no destination here. It's just Client->bastion
18:50 < Psi-Jack> That's 100% different.
18:50 < dgarstang> Psi-Jack: I did not
18:50 < Psi-Jack> dgarstang: That's not a bastion. :p
18:50 < Psi-Jack> You did.
18:50 < dgarstang> I don't want it to be Client->Bastion->Bastion. I want just Client->Bastion
18:51 < Psi-Jack> ssh bastion.
18:51 < ozymandias> funny how I understood the problem, though.
18:51 < Psi-Jack> No proxycommand no proxyjump. :p
18:51 < Psi-Jack> NEXT!
18:51 < dgarstang> it's not possible to exclude a host to get this result in ssh config?
18:51 < dgarstang> Thanks ozymandias
18:53 < ozymandias> pretty sure you can
18:53 < ozymandias> its been a while since I mucked with that, though
18:54 < gr1sha> Is it possible to bridge a wireless interface (wlan0) that acts as an access point with an ethernet interface (eth0), so that the connections from the access point will be in the same network as eth0? Is it possible that both sides of the bridge will get their IPs assigned dynamically by the DHCP server?
18:55 < ozymandias> yes and yes
18:56 < ozymandias> you may need to set up dhcp forwarding or whatever it is called, but it can, and does work
18:56 < gr1sha> ozymandias: every tutorial I saw online said I have to assign eth0 a static IP address
18:56 < gr1sha> ozymandias: but I never knew DHCP forwarding exists. I'll Google it
18:56 < ozymandias> my workplace uses that setup, so I know it can be done
18:56 < ozymandias> not sure if eth0 can be dynamic -- it is not here
18:57 < ozymandias> but you can run dhcp anywhere on our wifi and hit the same parent dhcp servers
18:57 < tds> if you're just bridging, you shouldn't need to mess with dhcp at all
18:57 < ozymandias> we also proxy the dhcp on wired, as well, across different subnets
18:59 < GreyHatNET> Psi-Jack 24/7 365 up
19:01 < walnut_burl> Does anyone know if sssd's ldap_access_filter can be used to specify a single user, not a group
19:03 < noodlepie> Hiya guys. Linux working well here. I love this free sh*t!
19:03 < noodlepie> (:
19:04 < gr1sha> tds: could you elaborate?
19:06 < Psi-Jack> noodlepie: nice. Please mind the language.
19:08 < tds> gr1sha: if wlan0 and eth0 are bridged at layer 2, a dhcp server on the wired network will work from the wireless network, you don't need to specifically forward that traffic at all
19:14 < Psi-Jack> Heh. GreyHatNET?
19:17 < wadadli> Anyone here remember a tool to recover Windows XP password?
19:18 < fendur> just mount the drive and get your stuff off of it.
19:18 < wadadli> Don't have resources here at grandma's house
19:18 < fendur> so linux is not involved?
19:18 < wadadli> Sure.
19:18 < nullv4lue> chntpasswd
19:19 < wadadli> nullv4lue: Thanks server
19:21 < zarzar> i am using clock_gettime with clock montonic raw, the rate is 1ns, only counts to 999,999, is there a way to get a larger count value out of a clock? like a microsecond clock that counts up to 999,999 or a nanosecond clock that counts to 1 billion?
19:23 < |o^o|0> a faster processor?
19:26 < djph> zarzar: er, at 1,000,000 nanoseconds, the second rolls over
19:26 < zarzar> hahahahahahahaha
19:26 < zarzar> sad
19:26 < |o^o|0> or maybe arch specific timer instructions
19:26 < zarzar> djph: are you serious?
19:26 < djph> zarzar: yes
19:27 < zarzar> djph: 1,000,000,000 not 1,000,000
19:27 < djph> ... fucking hell, I need more coffee
19:27 < zarzar> clock monotnic raw rollsover at 1,000,000
19:28 < zarzar> is there one that rolls over at higher count value? or that has lower resolution but is monotonic?
19:31 < wadadli> nullv4lue: eh doesn't boot
19:34 < zarzar> djph: i'm wrong, it does roll over at 999,999,999
19:36 < JeremyBentham> What happened to the PicPaste website?
19:37 < djph> zarzar: hooray?
19:38 < djph> JeremyBentham: it no workie?
19:41 < JeremyBentham> Yes, it no longer works
19:41 < JeremyBentham> so, what happened to the PicPaste website?
19:42 < JeremyBentham> See, check it yourself:  http://www.picpaste.com/
19:43 < acresearch> people anyone knows how gsettings works in XFCE?
19:49 < twainwek> macs
19:49 < twainwek> oops wrong window
19:51 < darkhorse> what to install to get rid of ./PacketTracer6: error while loading shared libraries: libcrypto.so.1.0.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
19:51 < darkhorse> this error
19:52 < fendur> libssl?
19:53 < JeremyBentham> Is this a good website for posting pics:  https://www.picpasteplus.com/
19:53 < fendur> JeremyBentham: this seems like some kind of trick....
19:54 < JeremyBentham> What?
19:54 < wadadli> What's equivalent for this
19:54 < wadadli> h:\syslinux.exe -ma h:
19:54 < wadadli> on linux?
19:59 < fendur> darkhorse: looks like libssl-dev package in Debian, for example
19:59 < jim> wadadli, you want to install a boot loader?
19:59 < darkhorse> fendur i am using manjaro
19:59 < darkhorse> there is openssl for it
19:59 < repys> how can I create a big file for test?
19:59 < fendur> darkhorse: I'll leave it to you to find the equivalent.
19:59 < darkhorse> but doesn't seems to work with it.
20:00 < darkhorse> Have installed it but still error is there
20:00 < wadadli> jim: ah forget it.
20:00 < wadadli> jim: I figured that was what I needed to do, seems like so much work.
20:01 < section1> repys, empty file ?
20:01 < jim> well do you want syslinux specifically?
20:01 < widp> I am testing a python script which has the possiblity to run forever
20:01 < lupine> dat halting problem
20:01 < widp> I can't kill it because the computer freezes before I do that.
20:01 < repys> I need to fill a disk for testing
20:02 < widp> How do I test this?
20:02 < section1> repys, check dd
20:02 < widp> I've restarted my computer 10 times already.
20:02 < wadadli> I'm trying to boot this ntpasswd thing.
20:02 < widp> I know a dumbfuck who can't figure out the right way to do this.
20:02 < lupine> attach a debugger, single-step it
20:02 < fendur> darkhorse: you need the development package. maybe something like openssl-devel
20:02 < widp> I can't single step through this.
20:02 < lupine> sure you can
20:02 < widp> because there won't be a point to it.
20:03 < wadadli> I don't know if it need syslinux particularly, that's what the wiki said to do for the floppy images.
20:03 < widp> ok, Here goins nothing.
20:03 < widp> if I leave, it means my computer died again.
20:03 < widp> thank you for listening
20:04 < lupine> at least if it freezes this time, you'll know exactly which line of python is responsible
20:04 < repys> ok and how can I test the memory instead?
20:04 < repys> I want to fill up the ram for testing
20:04 < darkhorse> fendur,  I just list that file and it's there
20:04 < lupine> or you'll get tired of following the infinite loop
20:04 < darkhorse> my program is not just able to detect it
20:04 < darkhorse> some path error may be
20:04 < section1> repys, look at memtest program
20:04 < darkhorse> thanks btw
20:10 < Psi-Jack> repys: How much RAM?
20:10 < repys> 20 or 30 GB
20:10 < Psi-Jack> Which? How much actual RAM?
20:10 < repys> just to check that monitoring system is working
20:10 < Psi-Jack> Oh. heh
20:10 < repys> I need to fill 30GB ram
20:11 < repys> for testing
20:12 < aaa_> lol
20:12 < johskar> ramdrive and generate a fat file full of randomdata to it?
20:13 < section1> ahhh pf
20:13 < section1> make a c program t oallocate 20gb
20:13 < jim> pico farads?
20:13 < section1> i don't know if exist something
20:14 < jim> like what/.
20:14 < sauvin> Would /dev/shm be inappropriate?
20:14 < jim> ?
20:16 < section1> sauvin, filling /dev/shm ?
20:16 < sauvin> Well, don't get too nuts "filling" it; it uses system RAM.
20:16 < section1> depends of the distro..in my distro only its 2gb size
20:17 < jim> I would think that's determined by the kernel
20:17 < KWhat4> hi, when I use readelf -l where does the "Requesting program interpreter:" come from?  Is that at compile time or is there a setting I can change?
20:17 < sauvin> And I'd think it'd be tweakable somewhere in /proc or /sys or something.
20:18 < jim> meetoo
20:19 < sauvin> KWhat4, what file are you running readelf on?
20:19 < |o^o|0> KWhat4: man elf(5) PT_INTERP
20:19 < jim> I remember when hj lu out out readelf and suggesting we all move to elf...
20:19 < section1> in debian u have /etc/default/tmpfs
20:20 < section1> s/u/i/
20:20 < jim> was just gonna say :)
20:20 < KWhat4> sauvin: it is a binary program, in this case icedtea
20:20 < sauvin> Yeah, I just ran readelf -l on an ELF and didn't get that "requestiong program interpreter" thing.
20:21 < jim> maybe google for: readelf "requesting program interpreter"
20:21 < |o^o|0> or just rtfm
20:22 < jim> I didn't say that :P
20:22 < section1> :D
20:24 < KWhat4> So if I understand this correctly, it is set during the link process.
20:25 < jim> KWhat4, did you call readelf on a script?
20:25 < KWhat4> no, its a program, icedtea/java
20:25 < jim> oh it
20:25 < jim> is java
20:25 < jim> that might make sense :)
20:27 < KWhat4> yah, I am doing something very dirty and I think its just a little too much
20:29 < dimm> hello , All!
20:29 < dimm> which tools you use for get logs from clusters?
20:32 < noodlepie> OK Linux 4.16.2-gentoo working stably here!
20:32 < noodlepie> It rules. I love the Free stuff.
20:34 < SuperSeriousCat> "Free stuff"?
20:37 < _KaszpiR_> dimm rsyslog
20:37 < _KaszpiR_> to ELK
20:42 < Psi-Jack> dimm: There's several solutions. Logstash, Greylog, AWS CloudWatch Logs, etc./
20:43 < Psi-Jack> Splunk too. :)
20:43 < _KaszpiR_> and /dev/null ;)
20:43 < dimm> how all of this is about time sync? ok?
20:44 < _KaszpiR_> hm?
20:44 < _KaszpiR_> well, first of all ensure you have ntp or chrony and synced clocks
20:44 < dimm> when i got to server and 'tail -f' then it is a real time. How about realtime when using any of elk , logstash and others
20:45 < _KaszpiR_> you don't want realitime with clusters, usualy 5s or even more is enough in day to day operation
20:45 < Psi-Jack> dimm: TIAS
20:46 < _KaszpiR_> afair most systems have  near realtime performance, butt hat depends on the setup
20:47 < dimm> Psi-Jack: what i s TIAS? =) https://www.acronymfinder.com/Slang/TIA.html
20:48 < Psi-Jack> Helps if you include the S
20:49 < anonnumberanon> hey what is best practice for where to put an entire directory onto my linux OS, it contains a program, it's graphical icons, its packages, etc?
20:49 < anonnumberanon> downloaded from the Internet, not available from my package manager
20:51 < Psilocyber> anyone know a good terminal emulator that has linux and windows support
20:51 < Psi-Jack> Psilocyber: what?
20:51 < dimm> putty?
20:52 < dimm> Psilocyber: try to see putty, mtputty
20:52 < Psilocyber> omg i never knew putty had that, that is definitely preferred, thanks
20:52 < Psilocyber> thanks guys!
20:52 < Psi-Jack> Putty is bad
20:53 < Psilocyber> oh no, why is it bad???
20:53 < SuperSeriousCat> It is also a SSH client. Not a terminal emulator
20:53 < jimm> it's what you hyvve available right?
20:54 < mercury80>  i set up a new centos server and made a test user and I'm trying to get ftp working with vsftpd, i have it set with user config files and a testuser file that sets the home directory as a different folder for when they login but it appears blank and i can't upload anything. if I ssh in as testuser i can cd to that directory and successfully list it so not sure if its ftp config related or
20:54 < mercury80> actual filesystem permission related
20:54 < Psilocyber> i just need something that works both on windows and linux
20:57 < Psilocyber> SuperSeriousCat: just found this http://store.chipkin.com/articles/using-putty-for-serial-com-connections-hyperterminal-replacement
21:01 < jimm> Psilocyber, well not everything does, but maybe putty does, and maybe there are others
21:02 < _KaszpiR_> anyone maybe knows how to downclock radeon hd5000 cards under linux?
21:02 < ozymandias> putty/kitty are quite popular on windows
21:03 < ozymandias> and iirc both have linux versions.... but why?
21:03 < ozymandias> lol
21:03 < Pidgeotto> i think the ability to save settings is nice
21:03 < Pidgeotto> on linux
21:03 < peetaur> you can save things in ~/.ssh/config too
21:03 < peetaur> it's probably just for familiarity
21:15 < boblamont> has anyone used the Cherokee web server? is it any good?
21:16 < ayecee> legend has it that someone used it once
21:17 < boblamont> does the legend end well?
21:17 < boblamont> or is it one of those tales of a heroic attempt leading to a tragic finish?
21:18 < ayecee> not sure, but it sounds like it would be a cautionary tale
21:18 < clamiax> hi
21:18 < ozymandias> may end in a trail of tears
21:19 < ayecee> oof
21:19 < ayecee> too real
21:19 < ozymandias> too soon?
21:19 < ayecee> also yes
21:28 < jim> Psi-Jack, hi... are you still here
21:28 < jim> ?
21:30 < Psi-Jack> Sorta
21:34 < jim> Psi-Jack, check your pm... I don't have time to stay any further, you can leave a reply if you want to
21:48 < anickname> hello
21:49 < anickname> so I have a few questions about puppy linux, I'm using it in a virtual machine
21:49 < anickname> is the entire OS loaded into RAM?
21:50 < xamithan> yes
21:50 < anickname> ok what happens when I try to save stuff on it?
21:50 < anickname> does that get loaded into RAM too?
21:50 < anickname> like say I put a video file on the desktop, does that exist in ram
21:51 < Dagmar> Yes.
21:51 < xamithan> Unless it runs out of RAM and has to swap,  probably
21:52 < triceratux> http://puppylinux.com/install.html
21:52 < anickname> so how would I make it so that that doesn't exist in ram
21:52 < anickname> in other words only the programs and stuff like that exist in ram, but not the actual files for those programs
21:52 < anickname> so I don't have say, 1GB program file taking up 1GB of ram
21:53 < Dagmar> Mount an actual disk, write it there
21:53 < xamithan> mount a usb,  keep your files on there
21:53 < xamithan> use a network share
21:54 < anickname> what if I'm in a virtual machine?
21:54 < Dagmar> Then you'd better allocate it a disk
21:54 < xamithan> Your virtual machine doesn't have networking or a virtual disk ?
21:55 < anickname> I mean I can add a virtual disk
21:55 < anickname> but how would I access it
21:55 < xamithan> triceratux gave you a good link if you want to install it
21:56 < anickname> oh I didn't even see that there lol
21:56 < anickname> thank you
21:56 < anickname> it doesn't work?
21:56 < anickname> 404 not found
21:56 < xamithan> works here
21:57 < anickname> this is what it tells me: Not Found The requested URL /install.html was not found on this server.  Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
21:57 < xamithan> Did you type it wrong or is your dns broken =/
21:57 < anickname> lol neither
22:03 < shazbotmcnasty> hey friends - so I'm installing a new SSD, and reinstalling the OS on this new drive. But I have /u1 /u1 and /home on different drives. Does anyone know of a good way to reinstall the OS, but not touch these other drives, and have them mount to the same location after the reinstall?
22:04 < xamithan> Most OS's will let you mount and not delete during the install
22:05 < koala_man> shazbotmcnasty: all installers let you choose which partition to mount where without formatting them
22:11 < shazbotmcnasty> well good to know.
22:19 < acresearch> people anyone knows how gsettings works in XFCE?
22:21 < Psi-Jack> acresearch: People in #xfce sure would. ;)
22:22 < acresearch> Psi-Jack: i asked there several times :-/
22:22 < |o^o|0> probably some combinations of dbus and or gconf and or dconf
22:22 < Psi-Jack> Perhaps more details are required, instead of asking to ask? :)
22:23 < acresearch> Psi-Jack: i am trying to figure out how to set the file manager to have the default to display the files and folders in list view
22:23 < saberu> anyone know a good value VPS or dedi provider? That supports Windows
22:23 < acresearch> gsettings set ?????? default-folder-viewer 'list-view'
22:23 < Psi-Jack> saberu: Quite off-topic.
22:23 < acresearch> the distro i am using has thunar as the file manager
22:24 < saberu> Psi-Jack, it's hard to find opinions :( and this is one of the most busy channels
22:25 < triceratux> acresearch: the thunar settings are persistent in ${HOME}/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/thunar.xml
22:27 < acresearch> triceratux: i can't find list view setting there
22:28 < twainwek> saberu: aws
22:28 < saberu> twainwek, aws expensive
22:28 < Psi-Jack> saberu: ##hosting?
22:29 < xamithan> I pick a vps off lowendbox
22:29 < twainwek> saberu: they have very affordable vps plans. if you want cheaper than that, you probably don't want "good" ones
22:30 < triceratux> acresearch: i can see it here. its <property name="last-view" type="string" value="ThunarIconView"/> for example
22:31 < acresearch> triceratux: oh last-view is list-view?
22:31 < triceratux> acresearch: seems to be if you change it thru the gui
22:32 < acresearch> triceratux: i see
22:32 < saberu> twainwek, that's rubbish sorry
22:32 < triceratux> acresearch: ya cant make this stuff up. you just have to watch it very closely ;)
22:33 < acresearch> triceratux: ok what about mouse setup? where can i go to control mouse setup by tge terminal?
22:33 < saberu> twainwek: you are making the common mistake in assuming your definition of affordability is correct
22:33 < acresearch> triceratux: haha
22:33 < saberu> there is no #hosting channel :(
22:33 < ayecee> try with two #
22:36 < Psi-Jack> Like I said ##hosting, not #hosting
22:36 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: you still using proxmox?
22:36 < Psi-Jack> Yep
22:36  * Dominian nods
22:36 < Dominian> k
22:37 < triceratux> acresearch: looks like the mouse settings end up buried in xsettings.xml in the same directory
22:39 < acresearch> triceratux: ok i opened the file, but i can't see the mouse parameter, natural scrolling and track pad tapping
22:40 < saberu> Psi-Jack, it's empty too
22:40 < Psi-Jack> saberu: Welp. Too bad.
22:41 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Yeah, New Proxmox VE 5.1.x recent update finally added the start of CloudInit stuff to it, which is really nice.
22:41 < Psi-Jack> Works, partially, but it's not fully backwards compatibly done.
22:41 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I'm going to see about getting a machine together t test it
22:41 < Psi-Jack> Noice. :)
22:54 < triceratux> acresearch: well yer way ahead of me in that case. youre looking in the right place although some xfce settings get dumped in ${HOME}/.config/dconf/user. basically the mousepad 3 stuff
22:56 < twainwek> saberu: i've used good vps', and garbage vps'... and generally speaking anything cheaper than what aws offers (they have a lot of different plans) is bad or garbage. so there's a compromise between good service and affordability. and given that you want to use windows on a vps i think is a good indication that you don't know what "good" even is
22:57 < saberu> twainwek, solidseovps is decent
22:57 < twainwek> "decent"
22:57 < revel> saberu: Then use that.
22:59 < Psi-Jack> heh
23:05 < iluminator105> hi i added windows to grub menu its not showing up
23:05 < Psi-Jack> How did you "add" it?
23:06 < iluminator105> grub.d 15_windows
23:06 < Psi-Jack> Vague input.
23:06 < iluminator105> set root=(hd0,2)
23:07  * Psi-Jack shakes his head. "Good luck. I'm not about to pump every tiny miniscule piece of information out of you.
23:08 < iluminator105> Psi-Jack, should be sda0? instead
23:09 < Psi-Jack> I've stopped trying to help you.
23:09 < iluminator105> k
23:09 < triceratux> illuminated: did you run grub-update or grub-mkconfig to get the changes to be reflected ?
23:12 < triceratux> iluminator105: ^^
23:12 < iluminator105> triceratux, i did
23:15 < shazbotmcnasty> iluminator105: did you follow instructions or something? Or did you do it off of memory?
23:15 < shazbotmcnasty> If you followed instructions, link them here.
23:19 < CoJaBo> Is there any chance netconsole may not be supported in hardware? It loads, info in dmesg all looks right, but I can't get any evidence using tcpdump or checking settings that it's generating any packets at all
23:20 < CoJaBo> my only other option seems to be serial console, which requires a cable I cannot find anywhere
23:21 < Frith> CoJaBo: You can make one from two USB cables.
23:21 < Frith> If that helps.
23:21 < CoJaBo> Frith: USB-serial cables?
23:21 < Frith> Just straight USB cables.
23:21 < CoJaBo> How?
23:22 < iluminator105> triceratux, i erased the master windows boot partition
23:22 < Frith> Cut the two cables in half.  Join the RX to the TX lines as a crossover.
23:22 < iluminator105> but the windows is still there
23:23 < CoJaBo> Frith: ..and what abomination of software/drivers supports that?
23:23 < iluminator105> triceratux, i can boot with super grub 2 boot disk  to windows
23:25 < Frith> minicom.  It's a USB serial on bot sides.
23:27 < phre4k> I can connect to my server with "sftp servername", but when I try to do the same with Thunar or Gigolo, I get "permission denied", why?
23:27 < CoJaBo> Frith: is there a source for that somewhere?
23:28 < CoJaBo> I do have 1 USB-serial cable, but frankly I'd only trust it on the receiver; if something blows up in USB on the host, I might still not get logs
23:29 < Frith> Yeah -- and now I'm struggling to recall if one end had an FTDI chip in it or not.
23:29 < CoJaBo> I'm trying to debug a hard crash that doesn't even print messages to screen console :/
23:29 < Frith> Let me find the cable I did this to.
23:30 < CoJaBo> Frith: To work without custom drivers, it would have to have 2 serial chips
23:30 < lovingninetails> Pound me daddy
23:30  * revel gets the seal clubbing club and hits lovingninetails with it
23:31 < zeffy> hello
23:31 < CoJaBo> I think it also needs hardware support for OTG on one of the sides to work with just straight passthru of USB. Which actually gives me an idea, the Pi supports OTG, but that still just brings me back to "it won't work if the USB stack blows up" <_<
23:31 < zeffy> someone installed vega till now on debian ?
23:34 < fe2o3> anyone got a x270?
23:34 < Psi-Jack> fe2o3: Better to ask real questions than to poll wildly.
23:34 < Psi-Jack> zeffy: Same ^
23:34 < fe2o3> just wondering if installing arch linux everything is sweet.
23:34 < xamithan> Try it and find out
23:34 < Psi-Jack> fe2o3: Are you a Linux newbie?
23:34 < fe2o3> xamithan: i haven't got one yet, thus asking.
23:35 < fe2o3> Psi-Jack: hardly.
23:35 < Psi-Jack> fe2o3: What is virtual memory in Linux?
23:35 < ayecee> gatekeeping in progress
23:35 < fe2o3> Psi-Jack: why you asking me this?
23:35 < lovingninetails> zeffy, VEGA Conflict on Steam?
23:35 < Frith> CoJaBo: Yep -- it was two USB cables with FTDI on them that came with Raspberry ppis.
23:35 < lovingninetails> That's Windows only
23:35 < Frith> Sorry about that.
23:35 < Psi-Jack> fe2o3: Knowledge testing. :)
23:36 < fe2o3> pfft. ;P
23:36 < Psi-Jack> Failure. Arch Linux is not designed for you at this time. Learn more, and come again. ;)
23:36 < lovingninetails> Your best bet is run an XP virtual machine and enable GPU passthrough by booting it into safe mode and installing Direct3D support then enabling 3D acceleration
23:36 < lovingninetails> That'll run VEGA Conflict
23:37 < fe2o3> Psi-Jack: i'm running arch linux now on a t430s.
23:37  * lovingninetails is running Debian Stretch on a Dell Latitude E6330
23:37  * jml2 is running linux on an H97
23:37 < Psi-Jack> Yes. I can throw out vague numbers mixed with letters too. rx4809
23:38 < jml2> better than a dh87mc
23:38 < ayecee> that's my favorite motorcycle!
23:38 < fe2o3> time to upgrade x270/x280 though the latter is not my style.
23:38 < lovingninetails> worse than an RPI 3
23:39 < Psi-Jack> fe2o3: What about the 69sux?
23:39 < fe2o3> Psi-Jack: how about suck my dick?
23:39 < lovingninetails> Did they ever upgrade the graphics in the RPI? Or is it still Broadcom VideoCore IV?
23:40 < lovingninetails> I have an android phone with a BroadCom VideoCore IV
23:40 < Psi-Jack> fe2o3: No. Not really interested. but you can see how just spitting out random strings of characters+numbers alone without any make is less than ideal?
23:40 < fe2o3> Psi-Jack: well fuck off then.
23:40 < ||JD||> fe2o3: don't feed the troll
23:41 < lovingninetails> fe2o3, I'll suck it dry
23:41 < lovingninetails> xD
23:41 < Psi-Jack> ||JD||: You want him to starve?
23:41 < Psi-Jack> Himself? ;)
23:41 < Psi-Jack> lovingninetails: Oh snap! That has a quick reaction of ESCAPE!
23:42 < triceratux> https://medium.com/@ahawkins/my-failed-attempt-switching-to-linux-daf6c52a5147
23:42 < jml2> !ops fe2o3> Psi-Jack: how about suck my dick?  <fe2o3> Psi-Jack: well fuck off then.
23:43 < fe2o3> jml2: they started it!
23:43 < Psi-Jack> Oh, he's back.
23:43 < Psi-Jack> fe2o3: I was just trying to help you better communicate what you're actually talking about, and you got extremely hostile.
23:43 < jml2> triceratux, why would he bother to setup arch if he's new
23:44 < Sonolin> maybe he's a masochist
23:44 < fe2o3> wow, this channel. wow.
23:44 < klotz> arch isn't that complicated to install
23:44 < fe2o3> no shit.
23:44 < klotz> gentoo would give a user a far harder time i think
23:45 < Psi-Jack> klotz: It is for someone that has never used Linux before.
23:45 < lovingninetails> fe2o3, We're just all 'real men' with wives and three kids and we don't have time to help newbies install something they shouldn't
23:45 < triceratux> ubuntu seems to run fine on an x270 https://www.astro.umd.edu/~teuben/linux/laptop/x270.html
23:45 < marktr> Psi-Jack: In that case Anarchy Linux works fine as an Arch installer
23:45 < klotz> Psi-Jack: maybe yes... but then there's the wiki to guide them through
23:45 < phre4k> lovingninetails: the weebs in #archlinux have though
23:45 < Sonolin> I think saying "arch isn't that complicated to install" is a little bit of misdirection, everybody know installation is the easy part about Arch
23:45 < phogg> triceratux: I think that post would be better titled "I don't know how to shop for laptops that meet my specific hardware requirements"
23:46 < fe2o3> holy fuck, jesus got more sense out of his followers lol
23:46 < lovingninetails> phre4k, I saw your name and I thought 'Shrek', then I thought 'Warhammer 40,000'
23:46 < klotz> Sonolin: lol yeah that's kind of what i meant
23:46 < Psi-Jack> fe2o3: Kindly tone your language down. You've far exceeded excessive at this point.
23:46 < Sonolin> I mean, I can think of plenty *other* things that are annoying as f*ck about Arch, didn't read the article but I'd imagine its due to one of those
23:46 < Sonolin> not the installation
23:47 < fe2o3> Psi-Jack: yes sir.
23:47 < marktr> "I had to make my own PKGBUILD" - you're probably doing something wrong.
23:47 < Psi-Jack> fe2o3: Much appreciated. :)
23:47 < fe2o3> Psi-Jack: np.
23:47 < marktr> "It came with a 720p screen!" - which as we all know, is the fault of Linux and definitely not your inability to find appropriate hardware
23:48 < Sonolin> marktr highlights one point - not *all* software has an up to date PKGBUILD
23:48 < Psi-Jack> fe2o3: "No problem", not "np" for future self corrections. And yes, that's also in the channel policies, just so you are aware.
23:48 < phogg> marktr: I don't think the guy was intending to complain about Linux.
23:48 < triceratux> anarchy is ok but swagarch is better. its hard to distinguish from xubuntu https://swagarch.github.io/
23:48 < lovingninetails> Jesus isn't going to help you...
23:48 < Pidgeotto> watch your fucking language
23:48  * lovingninetails tosses a Pokeball at Pidgeotto 
23:48 < phogg> triceratux: hard to distinguish in what way? The default wallpaper?
23:48  * Pidgeotto was caught!
23:49 < Pidgeotto> Give a nickname to the captured Pidgeotto?
23:49 < snugger> Excuse me, but the Pokemon games are proprietary software and control the user.
23:49 < lovingninetails> Yes~! 'ROADKILL'
23:49 < fe2o3> can i all invite you to the watch tower?
23:49 < rypervenche> snugger: That made me lol.
23:49 < fe2o3> you'll like it.
23:49 < snugger> Please refer to "Pokemon" as "Digimon", a much more ethical franchise
23:50 < triceratux> phogg: yeah the seamlessness. its truly live & works right away
23:50 < phogg> snugger: you're hilarious. No wait the other thing...
23:50 < _ROADKILL_> Hi
23:50 < phogg> triceratux: Isn't that essentially all distributions these days?
23:50 < Sonolin> no pokemon can't talk
23:50 < Sonolin> they can only say their poke-name
23:50  * lovingninetails gives _ROADKILL_ rare candies
23:50 < snugger> Anyways, does anybody know if Cinnamon does bullshit that GNOME does (e.g not allow you to easily change the default terminal)
23:50  * _ROADKILL_ devolved
23:51 < triceratux> phogg: arch itself is still an exercise in reading the wiki & chrooting. thats why manjaro has come as far as it has
23:51 < snugger> arch itself is an exercise on one's sanity
23:51 < Sonolin> I think the wiki is the best product of Arch :)
23:51 < phogg> triceratux: I'm surprised people put up with that. Why not just script it? And then wrap the script in a few calls to dialog(1)?
23:52 < klotz> indeed why not
23:52 < snugger> agreed. can't use your operating system if its broken, and with arch you'll need to have a good wiki to fix all the shit it does
23:52 < Sonolin> phogg are you implying scripting the wiki itself?
23:53 < phogg> Sonolin: Scripting following the steps on the wiki. With prompts for questions.
23:53 < triceratux> phogg: whats surprising is that arch puts up with it. thats essentially what manjaro & antergos have done. & theres more to come
23:53 < xamithan> Thats why you clone the arch wiki into your own wiki and make it sync
23:53 < Sonolin> oh, I see what you're saying, like a (dummy) wrapper around the OS
23:53 < phogg> triceratux: so there's no point in using arch directly, then?
23:53 < xamithan> bragging rights
23:53 < Sonolin> ^^
23:53 < phogg> Sonolin: Like a "I haven't got time for this" wrapper around installing *by hand*
23:53 < lovingninetails> I installed debian with netinst without internet
23:54 < lovingninetails> Then I set it up and ran tasksel and checked everything o/
23:54 < phogg> xamithan: it's just a matter of time and patience, so what's to brag?
23:54 < Psi-Jack> phogg: There's some reasons, for some people. Really depends, though. ;)
23:54 < Sonolin> I mean, I just use a decent OS to start with and remove Arch from the picture
23:54 < snugger> "Arch never breaks. It's rock solid and stable" "Oh, something broke? Deal with it, you should expect that from Arch!"
23:54 < xamithan> Well you need some level to knowledge or a boatload of time to do it
23:54 < Sonolin> haha
23:54 < lovingninetails> My LXDE looks nice with the KDE breeze-dark theme :3
23:54 < phogg> xamithan: Both would be best
23:54 < Psi-Jack> phogg: For example, there's something I want, and it's not packaged anywhere. Arch's makepkg system is literally one of the more simpler build systems of all distros, and can be done very VERY rapidly, even easily badly (as shown in AUR).
23:55 < snugger> lovingninetails: Why not switch to LXQt soon?
23:55 < klotz> well you need something that keeps you busy during the day hehe
23:55 < lovingninetails> snugger, When Buster is stable I'll think about it snugger :)
23:55 < snugger> Debian 9 has LXQt in the repos
23:55 < phogg> Psi-Jack: Eh, that doesn't impress me. If I want a trivial 'package' out of non-packaged software I can build it myself and use checkinstall.
23:55 < phogg> Psi-Jack: or make a real package (they're not THAT hard)
23:55 < Psi-Jack> Checkinstall is... Not perfect. By any means.
23:55 < klotz> Psi-Jack: i second that, i really came to appreciate the simplicity of pkgbuilds
23:55 < Psi-Jack> And it does miss things.
23:56 < phogg> Psi-Jack: indeed, but for most things it's close enough
23:56 < Psi-Jack> phogg: They are difficult, /IF/ you package them "correctly", as appropriate. :)
23:56 < phogg> or just never deinstall anything (-:
23:56 < phogg> Psi-Jack: for things I'm stuffing in /usr/local there's only so much correctness that is interesting
23:57 < Psi-Jack> fpm helps, but makes horrible metadata for packages, and doesn't really follow any proper packaging standards.
23:59 < Psi-Jack> phogg: Even experienced people, like me, have no fun making package files, insuring to build them the correct way. ;)
--- Log closed Wed Apr 18 00:00:33 2018