--- Log opened Wed Apr 18 00:00:33 2018
--- Day changed Wed Apr 18 2018
00:00 < Psi-Jack> Many times, rpmbuild'ing the same thing, until it finally works exactly right. Splitting packages up into multiple packages to keep -dev out of non-dev, etc.
00:01 < snugger>  Does Cinnamon do the same GNOME garbage like making the default terminal not easily do-able?
00:02 < xamithan> define do-able ?
00:02 < phogg> In any case the virtue or lack thereof of arch packaging tools is orthogonal to the difficulty of the install procedure.
00:02 < xamithan> I wouldn't sex it if that is what you mean
00:02 < snugger> Ehm
00:02 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: heh
00:02 < snugger> Easily able to switch the default terminal
00:02 < phogg> snugger: If you're on Debian just select a different x-terminal-emulator alternative.
00:02 < phogg> snugger: if you're not on Debian *get on Debian*
00:02 < snugger> Isn't Debian that one operating system that got discontinued in the 90's?
00:03 < fe2o3> isn't debian dead yet?
00:03 < snugger> ;)
00:03 < phogg> snugger: no
00:03 < phogg> fe2o3: and no
00:03 < phogg> don't be vulgar
00:03 < Psi-Jack> snugger: No, that was Yggdrasil. :()
00:03 < mawk> debian is more alive than you all
00:03 < mawk> except me and phogg ofc
00:03 < phogg> On Debian everything should be configured to use /usr/bin/x-terminal-emulator by default or it is an error, then the alternatives system solves this for you.
00:03 < Psi-Jack> mawk: "ofc" WARNING!
00:03 < mawk> :(
00:03 < xamithan> debian deritives work the same way,  easily changed default
00:04 < mawk> unless KDE goes in the way
00:04 < mawk> I'm on debian + KDE
00:04 < phogg> snugger: I believe Cinnamon like GNOME relies on xdg-mime, meaning that nobody understands how it works and life is hopeless. I could be mistaken, though.
00:04 < snugger> *Sigh*
00:05 < snugger> I think you're mistaken. It doesn't say xdg-mime in the dependencies
00:05 < snugger> But it does require gstreamer for some stupid ass reason
00:06 < phogg> snugger: then it's something in the GNOME registry
00:06 < phogg> easy enough to change if you can find which key it is
00:06 < snugger> it requires gnome-common and gnome-panel
00:06 < snugger> nvm optional
00:07 < phogg> snugger: should only really need the gsettings tool
00:07 < phogg> or maybe even gconftool is enough
00:07 < snugger> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653363
00:07 < phogg> I'm unclear on which shiny config system GNOME is on now
00:08 < snugger> Really want to move away from the cancer that is the GNOME3-base but I'm really only using it for stability reasons. It may not work in the sense with the user, but for what it DOES do it does it usually better than most desktops
00:09 < xamithan> xfce not stable enough for ya ?
00:09 < phogg> snugger: that bug report just says they won't provide a panel for it in the control panel
00:09 < snugger> A GUI
00:09 < snugger> I think
00:10 < snugger> xamithan: It's stable but it has horrible screen tearing compared to other desktops
00:10 < phogg> snugger: May I recommend e16? A lot of the less fancy WMs are so stable you'll forget that they even exist.
00:10 < snugger> I dislike WM's. I like a complete experience
00:10 < xamithan> Eh true,  depends on the GPU and compositior
00:11 < phogg> snugger: May I recommend GNUStep+WindowMaker? A complete experience that hasn't changed in an appreciable way since the first time I saw it.
00:12 < snugger> phogg: One of my favorite WM's, but again, I just prefer DE's and the completeness they give
00:12 < phogg> I've literally never seen "screen tearing" that so many complain about, or I never noticed it and didn't care. That said I run a WM with no compositor and always have. I also haven't been bothered by hard to read fonts since that day I accidentally switched everything to type1.
00:12 < phogg> snugger: GNUStep is a DE without a WM, where WindowMaker fills in.
00:13 < triceratux> snugger: even in xfce nomodeset is becoming less of the solution. x11 has been updated to prefer the modesetting driver in many cases & its working better than vesa on a number of platforms suddenly
00:13 < snugger> Sidenote, the default look of Fedora Cinnamon looks fantastic. https://spins.fedoraproject.org/static/images/screenshots/screenshot-cinnamon.jpg
00:13 < xamithan> I had a screen tearing issue for months.  Then my graphics card finally died
00:14 < phogg> snugger: Ugh. There are no lines between things. No thanks.
00:14 < snugger> Eugh. I just noticed that too
00:14 < triceratux> https://tjaalton.wordpress.com/2016/07/23/intel-graphics-gen4-and-newer-now-defaults-to-modesetting-driver-on-x/
00:15 < phogg> snugger: how about ROX Desktop? A desktop environment without frills which is also as stable as you could ask for.
00:15 < sadbox> phogg: FWIW it's a thing that I think gets worse once you notice it / get used to not having it
00:15 < phogg> sadbox: I super, super doubt that.
00:16 < sadbox> phogg: at the very least I am far more sensitive to screen tearing than I used to be
00:16 < phogg> as long as video playback does not stutter what do I care if menus animate smoothly or whatever it is?
00:16 < snugger> phogg: That's not the person I am. I look for completeness without the sacrifice of functionality. Even though I DO know how to edit configuration files and customize my desktop, I'd rather just have a GUI do it for me
00:16 < phogg> it may help that I use zero animations, have disabled "opaque" window move/resize so I just get outline boxes. It's much nicer that way, more precise.
00:17 < snugger> Unfortunately the only desktop that really and truly does that nowadays is Xfce, but screentearing is an issue.
00:17 < snugger> At least for me
00:17 < snugger> Mate is nice too
00:17 < phogg> snugger: the WM cannot *cause* "tearing", whatever that is. It's got to be a hardware issue or a compositor issue. Try a different compositor.
00:17 < phogg> (or an X issue, I guess)
00:18 < xamithan> throw in compton,  thats what most people use when they got tearing
00:18 < phogg> display artifacts are due to the drawing system, period
00:19 < phogg> snugger: Anyway, GNUStep doesn't require any modification of config files. In fact it makes changing config that way rather difficult.
00:19 < sadbox> phogg: XFCE ships with a default compositor which sucks for screen tearing
00:19 < phogg> sadbox: don't tell me, convince snugger
00:19 < sadbox> so you can say "I have issues with XFCE and screen tearing"
00:20 < sadbox> phogg: Just saying you're being a lil' overly pedantic <3
00:20 < Frith> I just do everything over a VT100 terminal.  Web browsing only gets tricky with the async javascript.
00:20 < blackflag_bfp> I haeding some screen tearing on video before I loaded the Nvidia drivers
00:20 < revel> All you need is a bit of 'Option      "TearFree"   "on"'
00:20 < phogg> sadbox: the issue is, again, with the drawing system not the WM. He's saying "Oh woe, I cannot use XFce because screen tearing!" But you can still use XFce and fix that, so it's not that you can't use XFce.
00:21 < phogg> Frith: if only there were a modern browser engine with a purely character-based display output so I could run JS in a terminal browser and get something approximately usable on the modern web.
00:22  * triceratux had the xfce compositor turned off for a couple years until he discovered he had to deschedule nomodeset, vesa, & the intel_drv.so. then the nomodesetting kicked in & the tearing went away
00:22 < lupine> TearFree: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/615ENVsb%2BmL._SX385_.jpg
00:22 < blackflag_bfp> Nvidia drivers and some config adjust fixed screan tearing, using Debian XCFE
00:22 < triceratux> *modesetting
00:25 < phogg> lupine: It's my bath and I'll cry if I want to.
00:26 < revel> Or don't use nvidia :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYWzMvlj2RQ
00:28 < neobenedict> hi
00:28 < neobenedict> i'm having weird sftp issues
00:29 < neobenedict> i upload certain files, they create an empty file on my server, then the connection is closed
00:29 < snugger> Fedora just updated they're live isos https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/live-respins/
00:29 < blackflag_bfp> weechat
00:29 < neobenedict> i can edit the file just fine with nano
00:29 < neobenedict> not a filesystem issue
00:29 < phogg> neobenedict: ssh works okay?
00:30 < neobenedict> ye
00:30 < phogg> neobenedict: are you *sure* it's sftp and not regular ftp?
00:30 < neobenedict> ye
00:30 < neobenedict> this is very recent
00:30 < phogg> neobenedict: if you scp the file do you get the same effect?
00:31 < neobenedict> remind me how to scp
00:32 < kazdax> hi
00:32 < kazdax> i am back and with a question
00:32 < kazdax> i have a 512 mb usb stick and i got nothing to do
00:32 < kazdax> so i thought why not install a linux on my system
00:32 < phogg> neobenedict: just like cp but one side has a remote host mentioned. Briefly: scp file remoteuser@remotehost:/remote/dir
00:32 < neobenedict> phogg: yes
00:32 < neobenedict> scp freezes
00:32 < kazdax> arch linux swould be a good idea i suppose ?
00:32 < jml2> kazdax, you don't have a system, you just have a usb stick
00:32 < neobenedict> then loses connection
00:33 < kazdax> whats the deal with arch linux ..you can install its bare minimum but if you want to do anthing else you need to install each package
00:33 < kazdax> is it really that hard to figure out how to do it
00:33 < kazdax> should i take on this project ?
00:33 < jml2> neobenedict, maybe you're out of disk space
00:33 < Sonolin> lol
00:33 < jml2> Sonolin, what's so funny sonny?
00:33 < Sonolin> kazdax have you used linux before?
00:33 < Sonolin> *a linux distro
00:33 < kazdax> yes alittle
00:33 < kazdax> ubuntu
00:33 < kazdax> fedora
00:33 < kazdax> bsd
00:33 < phogg> kazdax: arch is never a good idea
00:33 < kazdax> very little
00:34 < Frith> I gotta say.  It's fun coming back here and seeing the arguments/discussions haven't changed in 15+ years.
00:34 < kazdax> yea i furgured arch would be tway to complex for me
00:34 < Sonolin> Arch is a good "experiment", I'd say that much
00:34 < jml2> all the main stream distros have a minimal installer, you just have to look for them
00:34 < Sonolin> but you'd learn much more from Gentoo and/or LFS
00:34 < phogg> kazdax: what do you plan to do with it? What distribution are you the most comfortable with?
00:34 < kazdax> i like ubuntu
00:34 < revel> kazdax: It's not about it being complex.
00:34 < cineribus> Why don't you like arch?
00:34 < neobenedict> jml2: none of my disks are full
00:34 < jml2> kazdax, ubuntu also has a minimal installer
00:34 < neobenedict> and I can write to the file with nano
00:34 < kazdax> but personally i am bored and need something to do
00:34 < phogg> Frith: Sure it has. It used to be Debian vs. Gentoo. Now it's vs. Arch.
00:34 < kazdax> i thought why not try and make linux my main OS instead of windows
00:34 < kazdax> do everything i do on windows in linux
00:34 < Sonolin> Arch is definitely not boring ;)
00:34 < kazdax> i dont play PC games
00:34 < Sonolin> honestly its not a bad OS but needs a certain mindset
00:35 < xamithan> kazdax: Why not give yourself a real challenge and install linux from scratch ?
00:35 < Sonolin> needs to be *always* up to date
00:35 < Sonolin> and that usually means a good & constant internet connection
00:35 < phogg> neobenedict: something is choking on the size of the transfer, could be on the box or in between. Have you checked kern.log and syslog?
00:35 < kazdax> what do you mean from scratch ?
00:35 < jml2> kazdax, MS just came out with their own custom kernel distro.
00:35 < jml2> kazdax, :p
00:35 < xamithan> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
00:35 < jml2> kazdax, time to ditch windows :)
00:35 < neobenedict> wat
00:35 < neobenedict>  Device: /dev/sdc [SAT], SMART Usage Attribute: 194 Temperature_Celsius changed from 157 to 162
00:35 < kazdax> hey i have been to much of an inbred using windows way to much
00:35 < phogg> Sonolin: Arch is for people who *know* they want it. That's how I describe it to newbies. If you're not sure it's not for you!
00:35  * jml2 https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-releases-its-first-linux-product/
00:35 < Sonolin> yea kazdax there's a lot of linux games, it might be worth a look
00:35 < kazdax> its not even that cool
00:36 < neobenedict> is my disk going thermonuclear and/or failing
00:36 < phogg> neobenedict: yep, that's not normal
00:36 < neobenedict> eep
00:36 < Sonolin> true phogg, if you haphazardly install stuff it can get unwieldly fast
00:36 < neobenedict> how 2 check smart status
00:36 < Frith> phogg: Good point.
00:36 < phogg> neobenedict: call someone at the data center and ask if it's on fire
00:36 < revel> neobenedict: Or maybe the temperature thing's busted.
00:36 < xamithan> Is your /dev/sdc a toaster oven ?
00:36 < revel> Is it actually 200°C?
00:37 < cineribus> They have good documentation on the archwiki, though, so I would suggest it's good for learning.  But if you have another resource you want to use to learn from, and they are using a certain distro, just use that :)
00:37 < neobenedict> dev/sdc: HGST HUS726060ALE610: 37°C
00:37 < neobenedict> hddtemp says it's fine
00:37 < Frith> Right now, all I run is a web browser and a terminal.  At that point, distribution is pretty non-critical for me.
00:37 < Sonolin> yea I always use the wiki as a backup, its a good resource to have
00:37 < kazdax> hey LFS looks like the thing i need
00:37 < kazdax> thanks guys
00:37 < Sonolin> Frith Slackware is nice for the KISS philosophy
00:37 < kazdax> this is sure some work i gotta work on
00:38 < Sonolin> oh sorry, thought you were the guy looking for distros
00:38 < kazdax> i should say thanks xamithan
00:38 < phogg> neobenedict: is that the disk to which you are writing?
00:38 < revel> kazdax: Go for Beyond Linux From Scratch if you have a lot of free time.
00:38 < Frith> Sonolin: My company dictates the Linux distribution I use at work, so it isn't something I really dwell on.
00:38 < neobenedict> phogg: it's a raid 5 array
00:38 < Sonolin> yea its really unimportant anyway
00:38 < kazdax> yea got alot of free time revel ...I am also studying how to write exploitable code..so it might be fun to learn linux in a way that i could help add to its security features in the future
00:38 < phogg> neobenedict: I see
00:38 < cineribus> I did something similar to LFS when I started with linux, gentoo... but the most useful for learning for companies is probably centos (pretty much everywhere uses redhat).  Main frustrating thing with that is the package repos are soooo far behind.
00:39 < Sonolin> well, except for the prime factors that you can *ultimately* change in any system (if you have the drive)
00:39 < cineribus> kazdax: you mean... how to write secure code?
00:39 < revel> cineribus: I don't think Gentoo's really similar to LFS.
00:39 < neobenedict> phogg: i really don't think it's a drive issue
00:39 < cineribus> in that you have to compile everything yourself
00:39 < neobenedict> I can write to the file jsut fine with anno
00:39 < neobenedict> nano
00:40 < phogg> neobenedict: neither do I
00:40 < cineribus> or at least you did back when I used it
00:40 < Psi-Jack> Gentoo is a distribution of Linux with a package manager, a lot of maintainers. LFS is a book on how to build Linux and core software.
00:40 < revel> You don't really compile it "yourself", you let Portage do it.
00:40 < phogg> neobenedict: I think it's something in networking on the box or between you and the box
00:40 < neobenedict> phogg: the internal-sftp hangs
00:40 < neobenedict> process
00:40 < neobenedict> they're all still open
00:40 < cineribus> I don't recall using portage, but that was a long time ago
00:40 < neobenedict> tons of them
00:40 < neobenedict> any idea how to kill off all ssh processes at once?
00:41 < Psi-Jack> neobenedict: sshd's or ssh's?
00:41 < neobenedict> sshd
00:41 < kazdax> i am currently studying about exploitation of code AT cineribus
00:41 < Psi-Jack> pkill sshd
00:41 < revel> Gentoo automates a lot more things than you think.
00:41 < kazdax> but you know LFS isnt to complex is it
00:41 < Sonolin> I think people just need to understand what it means to go LFS, its going to take a while to get it to the point of a working system
00:41 < neobenedict> ...if I kill my ssh accidently, that's kinda bad
00:41  * neobenedict checks vnc works
00:41 < kazdax> i mean i wont be getting to worked up about it would i ?
00:41 < Sonolin> well without some package management of some sort at least
00:41 < Psi-Jack> neobenedict: Warning: This will also kill the main pid.
00:41 < phogg> neobenedict: killall, but it could terminate the wrong session accidentally. I would pgrep and pipe through fgrep -v to exclude the session you're using
00:41 < CoJaBo> So, netconsole is now working. Apparently, something is/was screwing with my loglevel and setting it too low
00:41 < cineribus> And then you always miss that one linkable feature ... ugh
00:41 < kazdax> i mean installing linux was the project i wanted but you guys handed me a cool stuff to work on
00:42 < Sonolin> just saying, its not really a "distro"
00:42 < neobenedict> Psi-Jack: i have a vnc with root open, is it safe to type that?
00:42 < Sonolin> its more of a set of tools, instructions, and methodologies
00:42 < phogg> Sonolin: LFS is not a distribution, it's a HOWTO bootstrap Linux by hand guide.
00:42 < neobenedict> if it kills sshd i can restart it through vnc
00:42 < neobenedict> probably
00:42 < helokki> I have arch in two machines and installed Fedora on one laptop, i've liked Fedora so far.
00:42 < Psi-Jack> neobenedict: Are you using VNC over ssh, or direct insecure VNC?
00:42 < neobenedict> insecure
00:42 < neobenedict> well, it's over openvpn tunnel
00:42 < Psi-Jack> Bad bad bad!
00:43 < neobenedict> so "secure" in that way
00:43 < Psi-Jack> Ahh
00:43 < phogg> neobenedict: there should be no need to kill sshd, just kill the processes it spawned
00:43 < Psi-Jack> Then yeah, it's safe enough, I'd say.
00:43 < neobenedict> phogg: there are hundreds
00:43 < Psi-Jack> neobenedict: Better question now.
00:43 < phogg> neobenedict: so? Find all sshd pids, find all pids who mark those pids as their parents, kill those
00:43 < Psi-Jack> neobenedict: Is what you're actually trying to kill under a certain user?
00:44 < Psi-Jack> Or multiple users?
00:44 < neobenedict> one user
00:44 < neobenedict> that's right
00:44 < neobenedict> so I can kill by user
00:44 < phogg> Psi-Jack: he has a weird situation where attempts to sftp a file writes a 0 byte file and then hangs, leaving around a dangling process
00:44 < Psi-Jack> pkill -u username
00:44 < Psi-Jack> Boom! Safer way to kill what's going on more specifically. :L)
00:45 < blackflag_bfp> yay! I am ssh in from my phone and attatched to this tmux session. super cool.
00:45 < neobenedict> well that didn't fix the problem
00:46 < neobenedict> but got rid of all the ghost processes
00:46 < Psi-Jack> neobenedict: Next up: Avoid using sftp.
00:46 < neobenedict> i'm restarting openvpn
00:46 < neobenedict> i think that fucked itself
00:46 < Psi-Jack> Mind the language please.
00:46 < neobenedict> oh i'm still here
00:47 < neobenedict> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
00:47 < neobenedict> yeah that fixed it
00:47 < neobenedict> wtf
00:47 < phogg> blackflag_bfp: but do you have a decent keyboard?
00:47 < neobenedict> so my openvpn setup seems to be bugged
00:47 < neobenedict> restarting the client fixed the problem
00:48 < phogg> neobenedict: fixed the sftp problem?
00:48 < neobenedict> yeah
00:48 < neobenedict> since the sftp was going over openvpn
00:48 < phogg> neobenedict: did you retry after killing all the pids but before the client restart?
00:48 < neobenedict> probably packet loss or something
00:48 < neobenedict> yes
00:48 < phogg> neobenedict: interesting
00:48 < neobenedict> it's specifically openvpn
00:48 < neobenedict> file transfers over public ips were working. internal network was not
00:48 < phogg> neobenedict: probably not packet loss, but maybe a routing issue
00:49 < neobenedict> i do have a really large replay-window
00:49 < neobenedict> that's all I can think of that might be messing it up
00:49 < neobenedict> erm, I still want to know what that SMART alert was about
00:50 < phogg> neobenedict: the time to experiment is... when it starts happening again
00:50 < neobenedict> [SAT], SMART Prefailure Attribute: 8 Seek_Time_Performance changed from 128 to 140
00:50 < neobenedict> "prefailure attribute"
00:50 < neobenedict> spooky
00:52 < phogg> neobenedict: make sure you have a spare nearby
00:53 < snugger> hoping that cinnamon will be a much more sane option to GNOME
00:53 < xamithan> Are you calling gnome insane?
00:54 < Sonolin> yes
00:54 < snugger> very
00:54 < neobenedict> phogg: the datacentre has plenty
00:54 < neobenedict> I don't actually know how to backup linux though
00:55 < neobenedict> (and need to)
00:55 < neobenedict> basically how 2 backup every partition except one
00:55 < phogg> neobenedict: there are lots of backup suites of varying complexity. I mostly just use rsyc, though.
00:55 < phogg> rsync*
00:55 < NutsEverywhere> dejadup, I've been in this place before
00:55 < phogg> neobenedict: didn't you say it was all raid5?
00:55 < neobenedict> it is
00:55 < neobenedict> but raid isn't backups
00:55 < phogg> neobenedict: so why backup only some partitions?
00:55 < phogg> it would be impossible...
00:55 < neobenedict> the /storage partition is 16TB
00:56 < phogg> neobenedict: you mean filesystem, not partition
00:56 < neobenedict> yeah
00:56 < neobenedict> sorry
00:56 < neobenedict> I don't have 16TB of space :P
00:56 < neobenedict> and everything on there is relatively "re-obtainable"
00:57 < neobenedict> (since it's also where I keep local backups)
00:57 < ayjay_t> which should get priority: conf file values, or env file values
00:57 < phogg> neobenedict: rsync -x will prevent crossing filesystems while recursing. This may help.
00:57 < ayjay_t> err env variable values
00:57 < phogg> ayjay_t: in what context?
00:57 < snugger> I tried installing Cinnamon's file amnager on fedora gnome and it wouldn't even appear in the search menu but appears fine when launching it in the terminal
00:57 < snugger> HMMMMMMMMMM
00:57 < ayjay_t> is there a convention, phogg?
00:57 < neobenedict> which of these actually need backing up, phogg? https://i.imgur.com/JOfeZiI.png
00:57 < ayjay_t> in the context of a process that looks in both places, lets say the program hasn't been written yet
00:58 < neobenedict> of the dev, run
00:58 < phogg> ayjay_t: I don't understand what you mean by "get priority". Priority in what? Where?
00:58 < dannylee> ..
00:58 < phogg> ayjay_t: aha, now I understand you
00:58 < ayjay_t> sorry for not being clear
00:58 < kazdax> hey i notice something about LFS is that i alread need a system installed
00:58 < neobenedict> oh, I suppose ignore the tempfs
00:58 < kazdax> a linux system
00:58 < ayjay_t> kazdax false
00:58 < phogg> ayjay_t: First check command line switches, then env vars, then config files.
00:58 < neobenedict> and /dev is empty
00:58 < neobenedict> that makes things easier
00:58 < Sonolin> kazdax yes like me and phogg mentioned its not something you just "install" on your system
00:59 < ayjay_t> phogg is that your (respected) opinion, is there a cannon somewhere
00:59 < Sonolin> you have to work your way up to a usable system
00:59 < phogg> ayjay_t: that is the convention and it's pretty widely followed.
00:59 < neobenedict> so /, /home and /boot
00:59 < phogg> ayjay_t: e.g. look at what gcc does
00:59 < ayjay_t> so really you load conf files, then you load env vars, then you load command line switches
00:59 < ayjay_t> if they overwrite, they overwrite
00:59 < kazdax> i agree sonolin ...so this is a project in its own right
00:59 < phogg> ayjay_t: you also probably have some kind of built in default which you load first, but yes
00:59 < triceratux> kazdax: lfs is a recipe, an opportunity to learn stuff youll not learn any other way
01:00 < Sonolin> yea, although very useful & informative (if you have the time)
01:00 < ayjay_t> is that the case? I feel like `ENV=VALUE ./program` would override whatever is in the conf
01:00 < kazdax> okay question one
01:01 < kazdax> can i install linux on a system that has  only one partition and its a windows partition ?
01:01 < ayjay_t> heh theoretically yeh
01:01 < lupine> sure
01:01 < lupine> you won't even need to use umsdos
01:01 < Disconsented> Creating more? Sure
01:01 < Disconsented> Without? Not really, still need 2 at minimum
01:02 < lupine> (unless you use umsdos)
01:02 < Sonolin> I mean, you can probably install linux on the NTFS partition :P
01:02 < lupine> clearly the best filesystem ever
01:02 < Sonolin> *blasphemy* I know
01:02 < kazdax> okay so i have one partition ...and i want to install some distro
01:02 < kazdax> i have a 512 mb flash drive
01:02 < phogg> ayjay_t: yes. If you think about it you'll realize that the order I gave above is the most rational possible one, too, for different types of users needing control in different places.
01:02 < Sonolin> lookup dual boot, its fairly simple nowadays
01:02 < kazdax> i can find out this information online but if you guys point me in the right direction
01:02 < kazdax> cool
01:03 < oiaohm> Sonolin: normally loopback on ntfs.   Ie something like ext4 inside a file.
01:03 < ayjay_t> phogg, your algorithm is "stop when you find the first definition"
01:03 < ayjay_t> whereas i'm thinking of a "allow definitions to build on and overwrite other definitions"
01:03 < oiaohm> kazdax: most people forget you can have a partition in a file.
01:03 < ayjay_t> like in a chain of rc scripts
01:03 < Sonolin> oiaohm oh interesting, I know Ubuntu must have used a similar approch since they had an installer like that
01:04 < phogg> ayjay_t: That's exactly what mine is. You pull information from ALL sources in the right order and then the most appropriate one has been applied.
01:04 < ayjay_t> so by "most appropriate one" you mean the last one that's checked, right?
01:04 < kazdax> okay whcih distro debian .fedora and opensuse ?
01:04 < phogg> ayjay_t: CLI switches override env vars override config files.
01:04 < ayjay_t> so did you state it in reverse order, phogg?
01:04 < kazdax> which one should i install first ?
01:04 < francute> 
01:04 < phogg> ayjay_t: the last one applied to your config state, yes
01:05 < Sonolin> kazdax list them on a paper 1-6 and roll a dice
01:05 < francute> This character  started to render in my terminal as <b0>, anyone knows why?
01:05 < Sonolin> since you obviously don't have much criteria other than "something linux"
01:05 < kazdax> right
01:05 < phogg> ayjay_t: I might have said "respect" instead of "check" to be more clear. If you want an order to check in the one I gave is correct because it means that CLI switches are respected more than env vars which are respected more than config files.
01:05 < Sonolin> works fine in mine francute, maybe you need a font with unicode symbols
01:06 < Ruint> hiii
01:06 < phogg> ayjay_t: whether you check in that order or load and overwrite in the reverse order is just an implementation detail.
01:06 < francute> Also, i don't have the files /usr/share/fonts/encodings/encodings.dir , but no message about it
01:06 < Ruint> So now that microsoft has launched their own linux distro, does this make windows obsolete?
01:07 < triceratux> kazdax: always start with the debian nonfree unofficial communtiy netinst. branch out to fedora & opensuse afterwards
01:07 < xamithan> Sure why not
01:07 < phogg> kazdax: Start with opensuse but when you get tired of fighting with its package management tools try Debian next.
01:07 < francute> sonolin: it's possible to know which unicode font i should install? Because, if i put that char in PS1 in zshrc it renders well, but if i paste it directly to console, it shows <b0>
01:07 < oiaohm> kazdax: if you don't partition and go loopback route there is a performance cost to play and most distributions is manually setup http://www.opopop.net/booting_linux_from_a_loop_file_system/
01:07 < phogg> triceratux: sticking a newbie with netinst?
01:07 < Sonolin> hmm well it sounds like you have the font then francute
01:08 < oiaohm> Ruint: Microsoft making own Linux for IOT means Windows embedded is possibly on the way to be dead.
01:08 < phogg> Ruint: links or it didn't happen
01:08 < phogg> oiaohm: embedded Windows has always been dead
01:08 < lupine> I had a windows mobile phone once
01:09 < lupine> but only because it was easy to install debian on
01:09 < phogg> every few years Microsoft hits it with the defibrillator and it never helps.
01:09 < triceratux> phogg: real n00bs id route over to mx-17 https://www.linux.com/learn/intro-to-linux/2018/4/mx-linux
01:10 < phogg> triceratux: broken link
01:10 < triceratux> phogg: thats getting weird. works fine here
01:10 < oiaohm> phogg: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2018/04/16/using-intelligence-to-advance-security-from-the-edge-to-the-cloud/  I think Microsoft might be giving up on the defibrillator on Windows Embedded at long last.
01:10 < francute> Sonolin: also, that char renders well here in irc (Polari) and text viewer, but not in browser or pasting it in terminal
01:12 < oiaohm> phogg: yes this IOT thing is Windows embedded stupidity of absolutely 1 vendor of hardware just this time they are using a Linux kernel.
01:12 < Ruint> phogg: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/04/microsofts-bid-to-secure-the-internet-of-things-custom-linux-custom-chips-azure/
01:12 < phogg> oiaohm: It's not a real distribution, just another embedded Linux offering. Still interesting to see Microsoft do it, but hardly the end times.
01:12 < Ruint> phogg: Azure Sphere OS: This OS is purpose-built to offer unequalled security and agility. Unlike the RTOSes common to MCUs today, our defense-in-depth IoT OS offers multiple layers of security. It combines security innovations pioneered in Windows, a security monitor, and a custom Linux kernel to create a highly-secured software environment and a trustworthy platform for new IoT experiences.
01:13 < Ruint> from https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/introducing-microsoft-azure-sphere-secure-and-power-the-intelligent-edge/
01:13 < Ruint> 100% real microsoft authored linux, and the doomsday clock hasn't been moved forwards at all
01:13 < kazdax> okay in windows i can shrink my previous windows partition and make a new paritition
01:13 < Ruint> i feel cheated
01:13 < phogg> Ruint: I just read that. Yeah, so it's one little piece of a weird embedded system.
01:13 < phogg> not really a distro
01:14 < Ruint> at one point that was sort of true of android
01:14 < phogg> kazdax: Some Linux filesystems support shrink, but not all. Online shrink (without unmounting) is harder. After that you need to shrink the partition (only from right to left). The tl;dr is if you wanted to do this you should have used LVM from the beginning.
01:14 < lupine> MS is a regular contributor to linux upstream
01:14 < lupine> this is fine
01:15 < phogg> lupine: as long as the kernel devs are watching the changes it's all good news
01:15 < lupine> phogg: which ones support online shrink?
01:15 < Ruint> resierfs can shrink your family by one wife
01:15 < phogg> the day Microsoft releases a Linux server or desktop distribution is the day I'll sit up and take notice.
01:15 < triceratux> kazdax: thats exactly how you want to do that. turn paging off & defrag a couple times after the reallocation (& reenable paging). that should get windows out of the way of the linux installer
01:15 < oiaohm> Ruint: also problem with the security claims I don't see how it stacks up to sel4 or echronos  https://ts.data61.csiro.au/projects/TS/SMACCM/
01:16 < Ruint> oiaohm: the important thing is step 0 in the 7 steps of secure device is don't run windows
01:16 < Ruint> they will never live that down
01:16 < oiaohm> Ruint: sel4 for military usage does validation all the way into the silicon.
01:17 < phogg> lupine: not totally sure, I think I saw online shrink in a feature list for btrfs.
01:17 < lupine> heh. presumably only for its subvols
01:17  * phogg admits it has been a while
01:17 < phogg> lupine: likely
01:17 < lupine> i'd love online shrink for real filesystems
01:18 < phogg> lupine: Not me, in the real world disks get bigger and I grow in to them... I rarely need to get smaller.
01:18 < phogg> maybe once or twice it would have been nice
01:18 < lupine> this works well when you didn't accidentally make / + /home take up the whole VG in your laptop and then run out of space on /
01:18 < oiaohm> Ruint: the fact it seams to need to connect to cloud seams like already 1 tick against it for secure usage.
01:19 < lupine> right now, I have a strict one-in, one-out package policy
01:19 < phogg> oiaohm: they're probably trying to make a platform for dumb whitebox IoT vendors. Next step, scare them about the possibility of liability for compromised systems. After that offer them an automated update mechanism that keeps the base system "secure". They'll fall over themselves covering their asses.
01:20 < lupine> "dumb whitebox IoT vendors"
01:20 < lupine> I count at least 4 repetitions there
01:20 < oiaohm> phogg: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-install-windows-10-iot-raspberry-pi-3  You have to remember this.   I do wonder if Azure sphere will see the death of this.
01:21 < phogg> lupine: If I left out IoT the context would be missing.
01:21 < oiaohm> phogg: its not like Iot windows is that functional.
01:21 < Ruint> it looks to me like they want you to have a TPM chip in your toaster and fridge
01:21 < lupine> word
01:21 < Ruint> becuase why not
01:22 < phogg> oiaohm: that's why you scare them with the liability angle and convince them that, somehow, if it runs a Microsoft platform it's indemnified
01:22 < oiaohm> phogg: and the liability angle has not been working with Windows IOT because its not functional enough.
01:23 < phogg> Ruint: makes perfect sense if you're MS: TPM raises the barrier to competition while making it seem like you're just concerned for your user's safety.
01:23 < oiaohm> phogg: so I see Azure Sphere as attempt to recover their fear method of making money.
01:23 < phogg> oiaohm: they have to dream, man!
01:23 < lovingninetails> XP is more functional than 10 IoT
01:23 < neobenedict> is a complete backup of / created with tar enough to restore my system in the event of nuclear war
01:23 < Ruint> the collect your order screens at my local mcdonalds run 'this copy of windows is not genuine' windows embedded XD so i'm sure windows embedded works for some people, especially if they don't pay for it
01:24 < oiaohm> lovingninetails: I am not kidding but freedos is more functional than 10 IoT
01:24 < neobenedict> or would i need sector-level stuff
01:24 < neobenedict> :s
01:24 < phogg> neonpastor: It depends. If you got all the device files likely yes, otherwise maybe. You'd have to have a plan for how to restore it (and you're missing the bootloader in any case).
01:24 < danieldg> Ruint: report them to the BSA and you might even get paid :p (oh, and they'll hate you)
01:24 < neobenedict> phogg: is the bootloader in /boot ?
01:25 < Ruint> i don't want their espesso to get more expensive, and i don't care about microsoft
01:25 < Ruint> so i don't see why i'd do that
01:25 < Ruint> espresso^
01:25 < phogg> neonpastor: Traditionally it's in the first 512 bytes of the boot disk (aka the boot sector). For EFI it's different.
01:25 < lovingninetails> mv /boot/grub/grub.cfg /menu.lst
01:25 < danieldg> Ruint: twas a joke
01:25 < Ruint> also i don't know if BSA is a thing in the uk
01:25 < neobenedict> i'm running --one-file-system
01:25 < lovingninetails> grub4dos install to /dev/sda
01:25 < neobenedict> also you're pinging the wrong person
01:25 < Sonolin> expresso? From McDonalds?
01:26 < phogg> Sonolin: it's darkish and smells a bit like coffee, just try not to think about it
01:26 < oiaohm> Sonolin: depends what country you are in.  Some countries McDonalds  do offer it and can be quite good.
01:26 < Ruint> Sonolin: cheapest espresso in town, not paying double the price for starbucks just for crema
01:26 < Ruint> no more or less caffeine kick
01:26 < phogg> neonpastor: my apologies, bad nick completion
01:26 < Sonolin> man, I wish American McDonalds knew how to brew coffee that stuff tastes like dog crap
01:26 < Ruint> yeah uk mcd's hav bean-to-cup coffee machines that do espresso, it isn't bad.
01:27 < Sonolin> nice
01:27 < Ruint> probably usa mcd's use robusta beans
01:27 < phogg> neobenedict: so indeed I am. Using -x will get you everything you need except for /dev, which you may not need (depends on your restore procedure).
01:27 < oiaohm> Sonolin: McDonalds even burger sizes are different country to country.
01:27 < LissajousPattern> well I cat wait until Friday so I am gonna start today.
01:27 < Ruint> i once made the mistake of forcing burger king to make me a double espresso, it confused them so they -filled- the coffee cup with espresso
01:27 < LissajousPattern> can'*t nor can I spell
01:27 < phogg> neobenedict: and, as I said, your bootloader. But whether you need that depends again on your restore procedure
01:27 < Ruint> i thought it was awesome 'till i started shaking like a shitting dog
01:27 < Ruint> lousy f***ing robusta
01:28 < Sonolin> lol
01:28 < koala_man> haha
01:28 < phogg> neobenedict: you may need /boot as well if it's a different filesystem, and you'll need /usr and /var if they're different filesystems of course.
01:28 < Ruint> i can drink real espresso 'till it comes out of my ears but that stuff gave me palpitations
01:28 < neobenedict> thanks phogg
01:28 < Ruint> so i can see why usa mcds won't do espresso
01:28 < sadbox> Ruint: what's your definition of real espresso? :P
01:28 < Ruint> arabica beans
01:28 < neobenedict> why do i ahve 900 letsencrypt logs
01:29 < neobenedict> xd
01:29 < phogg> neobenedict: you forgot to enable log rotation?
01:29 < neobenedict> prooobably
01:29 < koala_man> I went to a chinese bakery cafe in the US and ordered an espresso. they were confused and asked "just a shot of espresso? in a cup?"
01:29 < Ruint> since i got an aeropress at work i rarely bother, which is why only the cheapest mcd's espresso appeals to me
01:30 < sadbox> work has an espresso machine
01:30 < Ruint> mmm
01:30 < sadbox> But I have become too spoiled
01:30 < Ruint> anyone wanna follow me to ##chat to talk coffee
01:30 < oiaohm> Sonolin: http://i.imgur.com/kPlZL.jpg  << I could not find the burger difference but this is the softdrink different cup difference.   Australian is left and USA is right on that picture.
01:30 < sadbox> so I just wait till I'm home
01:30 < Ruint> i've taken you all off topic
01:30 < lupine> murica
01:30 < phogg> Ruint: caffeinated drinks are always on topic
01:30 < Ruint> oh
01:30 < oiaohm> Sonolin: there is an insane number of differences between each countries  McDonalds
01:30 < Sonolin> yea, I kinda expected that
01:31 < Sonolin> just never pictured McDonalds serving expresso
01:31 < oiaohm> Sonolin: so your favorate drink/burger in one country can be absolutely revolting in another.
01:31 < sadbox> Sonolin: they've got McCafe now, yo
01:31 < Sonolin> haven't been in so long I wondered what had changed haha
01:31 < Ruint> aeropress is basicalyl a fat syringe with a coffee filter at the bottom, i regularly chuck 50g of coffee grinds in it to make one small cup, which ends up being line of cocaine strong. regular espresso can't compare
01:31 < Ruint> basically^
01:31 < lupine> why not just order caffeine in powder form?
01:32 < Ruint> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXEyvyHUnkM
01:32 < phogg> lupine: they do
01:32 < Ruint> i used to do that, raw caffeine is too jittery
01:32 < lupine> heh
01:32 < lupine> I mean, you're not wrong
01:32 < lupine> but at the same time, you know what I meant
01:32 < Ruint> i'd dissolve half a gram into orange juice, but the effect was nasty
01:32 < sadbox> Ruint: that does not sound pleasant at all
01:32 < phogg> lupine: my brother takes two 200 milligram caffeine pills each day, 8 hours apart. Drinks no coffee or soda.
01:32 < sadbox> Ruint: re: the 50g in an aeropress
01:32 < lupine> keeps the headaches at bay, I guess
01:32 < Ruint> and i had to hide it in a locked box because i caught someone trying to spoon it into their coffee like sugar
01:33 < Ruint> and i didn't want to go down for manslaughter
01:33 < triceratux> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/13/fda-bans-some-pure-caffeine-powders-and-liquids.html
01:33 < lupine> I switched from diet coke to coffee a few years back. it's disgusting, and much worse for my teeth, but at least I'm not supporting union-busting and systematic rape
01:33 < sadbox> I normally have 2-3 double shots of espresso a day
01:33 < phogg> lupine: I did one per day for a while but I found it too hard to find an alternative way to stay hydrated
01:33 < koala_man> 500mg caffeine is equivalent to over six cans of red bull so yes I can imagine that being unpleasant
01:33 < oiaohm> Ruint: coffee in fact is a mix of many drugs and in fact many of them counter the effects of caffeine.
01:33 < sadbox> koala_man: It's honestly not that much for someone who's used to it
01:33 < Ruint> sadbox: the way the aeropress works, with it's very very short brew time you don't get many of the bitter tannins, so you can make -very- strong coffee that doesn't taste like shit
01:33 < lupine> you've got to build your way up
01:33 < Ruint> oiaohm: i learnt that to my peril
01:34 < Ruint> also that robusta doesn't have them, not in the quantities arabica does
01:34 < lupine> I will never forget drinking ~20 espressos in 4 hours
01:34 < phogg> koala_man: 500 is a bit high, but I know people who consume 400+ every day.
01:34 < xid> i just ran `find /usr/share/mime/ -type f`. isn't there a tool that generates those, or should i unmount now and try to recover?
01:34 < lupine> that was a work conference to rival all conferences
01:34 < koala_man> phogg: per day, sure. but in one gulp?
01:34 < xid> i ran find /usr/share/mime/ -type f -delete
01:34 < lupine> xid: debian?
01:34 < prussian> rip
01:34 < xid> arch
01:34 < sadbox> koala_man: I've had >1g of caffeine at once
01:34 < sadbox> the LD50 is like 50g
01:35 < phogg> koala_man: in one gulp would be a bit of a waste since it all hits your system at once, but I know at least two people for whom this would not be a system shock.
01:35 < koala_man> butwhy.jpg
01:35 < sadbox> it's less terrible than you'd expect
01:35 < lupine> oh, no idea
01:35 < Ruint> if i have to get serious amounts of work done, nothing beats a 150mg armodafinil in the morning and a coffee in the afternoon
01:35 < prussian> I agree
01:35 < Ruint> i highly reccomend it
01:35 < xid> lupine: what would the answer be if i had been on debian
01:35 < prussian> but why
01:35 < lupine> in debian, I'd suggest apt-get install --reinstall `dpkg -S /usr/share/mime`, or a close variant
01:35 < lupine> I think it sticks in commas where it doesn't need to
01:35 < prussian> you're just going to go into caffeine tolerance and waste your money
01:36 < Ruint> i put 500mg caffeine in a 1l bottle of orange juice that i took all morning to drink
01:36 < phogg> Ruint: my brother recommends 200mg and then a short nap. After that you can work like a madman for most of the day.
01:36 < lupine> Ruint:  if work is so serious you're taking drugs to keep up with it, I cannot suggest moving positions strongly enough
01:36 < xid> thanks
01:36 < sadbox> I mainly have as much as I do now as a side effect of just liking how coffee tastes
01:36 < Ruint> oh
01:36 < prussian> Jesus
01:36 < lupine> and if that doesn't work, consider moving countries
01:36 < sadbox> If decaf tasted better I'd do that too
01:36 < lupine> go somewhere that has siestas
01:36 < Ruint> i'm a chef, i use armodafinil to make menial tasks like cleaning rewarding, otherwise i give those jobs to my peons and look laxy
01:36 < Ruint> lazy^
01:37 < prussian> I maybe drink like 16 oz of black coffee and I think I have a problem. yikes
01:37 < Ruint> also to write menus, since i otherwise get distracted
01:37 < prussian> 16 fl oz
01:37 < Ruint> i feel sorry for you americans, trivially easy to buy armodafinil in the uk XD
01:37 < oiaohm> Ruint: the medical recommendation is no more than 400mg of caffeine a day.  Above that you can start having big medical problems.
01:37 < hehehe> jim can you remove +r
01:37 < phogg> Ruint: you can get it here, it's just not easy
01:38 < hehehe> it is very bad
01:38 < oiaohm> Ruint: 500mg was over the limit.
01:38 < Sonolin> Ruint its just jealousy ;)
01:38 < hehehe> when I join I often forget to ident and then I cant change nick till I exit linux#
01:38 < ayecee> oiaohm: that's the recommendation, but big problems don't start until well over that.
01:38 < hehehe> I am sure some people experience same
01:38 < phogg> hehehe: this is the price we pay for civilization
01:38 < hehehe> !!!!!!!!!
01:38 < hehehe> FOSS is open source
01:38 < Ruint> i already had a high tolerance, and i was -cutting back- from four 1l bottles of energy drink and god knows how much sugar in them
01:39 < hehehe> +r #windows channel lol#
01:39 < xid> lupine: does that reinstall the files from all apps which have files in that path?
01:39 < xid> i wonder if pacman can do similar
01:39 < oiaohm> ayecee: if you do 500mg a day for over 6 months you will see issues appear in heart and other parts of the human body.  It is too much.
01:39 < prussian> Ruint: they sell modafinil over the counter?
01:39 < prussian> how
01:39 < xid> luckily i don't use a desktop manager, so it hasn't affected me much
01:39 < oiaohm> ayecee: of course that is not in coffee where other items are countering some of the effect.
01:39 < ayecee> oiaohm: i think there's people that regularly consume well over that without visible effect.
01:39 < xid> i guess i need to do pacman -Syu or something
01:40 < xid> not sure how to get it all back
01:40 < ayecee> aside from withdrawal on discontinuation
01:40 < oiaohm> ayecee: its not exactly directly visible.   Its like increase cases of catching colds heart rate not being as stable as it should be and so on.
01:41 < oiaohm> ayecee: basically at that amount you are damaging you health.
01:41 < ayecee> i don't think it's as severe as you're suggesting.
01:41 < sadbox> oiaohm: got any info / literature?
01:41 < xid> what, caffeine?
01:41 < xid> 500mg is a lot
01:42 < ayecee> that's two large cups of coffee
01:42 < xid> but does that claim account for tolerance?
01:42 < xid> a six ounce cup is like 80mg i think
01:42 < ayecee> yeah, but who drinks 6 oz cups
01:42 < prussian> me
01:43 < sadbox> ayecee: people drinkin' cappuccinos
01:43 < ayecee> of americano
01:43 < oiaohm> sadbox: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/05/16/south-carolina-teen-dies-caffeine-how-much-coffee-can-kill-you/99975022/  thee are a lot of studies on it.
01:43 < Ruint> hehehe: the problem is your nick is not genuine
01:43 < hehehe> oiaohm: oiaohm once we remove +r from here people health can improve
01:43 < hehehe> Ruint: emmm?
01:43 < Ruint> hehehe: it was meant to be a snipe at windows registration
01:43 < Ruint> :/
01:43 < hehehe> lol
01:43 < hehehe> some recent laptop makers lock bios to prevent linux
01:43 < hehehe> so bizzare
01:43 < xid> is it with heroin, where 5g a day will kill anyone who doesn't already have a tolerance?
01:44 < ayecee> no, the ld50 is obscenely high for caffeine, even for naive users.
01:44 < sadbox> oiaohm: the "death" of that kid is... definitely unlikely to be caffeine
01:44 < sadbox> He had a Mt Dew, a latte, and an energy drink
01:44 < sadbox> in 2 hrs
01:45 < ayecee> "may aggravate pre-existing conditions"
01:45 < xamithan> Did linux kill him?
01:45 < ayecee> well, he was in the middle of an install
01:45 < sadbox> oiaohm: also all the "it will cause this" stuff is... pretty minor
01:45 < lupine> moral panic
01:45 < sadbox> like, "you'll pee more frequently"
01:46 < sadbox> "You might have trouble sleeping"
01:46 < sadbox> ^^ which is kinda the point
01:46 < koala_man> Scott Adams of Dilbert has an anecdote where he felt lethargic and called in sick to work. Turned out he accidentally had decaf for breakfast.
01:46 < phogg> koala_man: yeah that'll do it
01:47 < stephen> I find similarities with IRC's standard for naming channels and JavaScript equality operators
01:47 < phogg> stephen: explain
01:47 < ayecee> nah, don't
01:47 < Ruint> prussian: no, but they exist in a grey area; illegal to sell but not buy in quantities under 100 tabs, so you just need to find a foreign website to buy them from & no laws are broken
01:47 < stephen> #UbuntuLinux (=), ##linux (==)
01:48 < Ruint> since the seller is then not beholden by uk law
01:48 < phogg> stephen: = is assignment not equality, and == for equality is not just JS.
01:48 < stephen> I know that.
01:48 < oiaohm> sadbox: direct fatal is a heck of a lot  50-100 cups of coffee.   But the adverse effects to heartbeat and immune system kick in a lot sooner.   So you might get ahead on work by using too much caffeine but thing get behind because you catch a cold that you would not have if you had not used too much.
01:48 < helokki> isn't coffee supposed to be healthy now?
01:48 < ayecee> it is 100% fatal if consumed for long enough
01:49 < jml2> helokki, coffee is never healthy
01:49 < phogg> helokki: in moderation it might help some things some times. The actual studies never say what the media reporting claims.
01:49 < stephen> So would it be ###FOSS-OS ===
01:49 < koala_man> in IRC channel and nicknames, | is considered an uppercase \
01:49 < stephen> What would a theoretical ### be
01:49 < Ruint> black coffee is probably fine in moderation, but a starbucks latte a day with whipped cream and syrup will still give you diabeetus
01:49 < helokki> i thought i saw some news about some study, might be totally wrong though.
01:49 < helokki> we dont have starbucks where i live luckily
01:49 < lupine> nor here
01:49 < oiaohm> jml2: that is in fact wrong coffee at under 3 cups a day has been proven to stablies many heart conditions.
01:49 < phogg> stephen: I do not understand you
01:50 < oiaohm> jml2: its due to the other drugs in coffee so it a moderation thing.
01:50 < koala_man> stephen: # vs ## is just a freenode policy, it's not a general irc thing
01:50 < Ruint> their black coffee is ok, stronger than costa or cafe nero.
01:50 < stephen> phogg, that's ok. The comparison order seems inverse anyway
01:50 < phogg> stephen: Comparison order of what?
01:50 < stephen> koala_man, actually, it's become pretty common across networks
01:50 < ayecee> this coffee conversation is getting towards the argument side of off-topic.
01:50 < stephen> phogg, my own
01:50 < Sonolin> oiaohm do you have any links handy, I'd too like to validate my addiction
01:50 < stephen> yeah, so
01:50 < phogg> stephen: your own what? Are you likely to start making sense at some point?
01:50 < jml2> Sonolin, you're too young for sanity sonny
01:51 < Sonolin> hey I didn't ask you
01:51 < oiaohm> Sonolin: it was covered on Australian TV news recently.  So I don't in fact have link.
01:51 < stephen> my own conclusion I drew about them.... Dear God man I'm a programmer not a rhapsodist!
01:51 < Sonolin> ah, TV... ok
01:52 < jml2> oiaohm, australia has no fast internet, they're a backwards country
01:52 < stephen> Basically we end with "phogg, I conclude you are right"
01:52 < oiaohm> Sonolin: many because it can save lives and those with heart conditions should go to doctor and have their intact recomendations updated.
01:52 < lovingninetails> Hi o/
01:52 < stephen> lovingninetails!
01:52 < TwistedFate> hello everyone
01:52 < oiaohm> Sonolin with the updated data.
01:52 < lovingninetails> I was in the shower o/
01:53 < Sonolin> yea I'll make sure to start drinking some coffee next time I have chest problems, thanks for the advice
01:53 < Sonolin> because of your saintly overloard TV programming
01:53 < sadbox> I wonder if the milk I have in my lattes are countered by the healthyness of the coffee
01:53 < sadbox> if one makes me more likely to die
01:53 < sadbox> and the other makes me less likely
01:53 < phogg> oiaohm: here's a sample http://abcnews.go.com/Health/caffeine-good-heart/story?id=54514658 but it sadly doesn't provide a useful citation
01:53 < sadbox> roughly even
01:53 < sadbox> I guess
01:53 < ayecee> so, how about that linux
01:53 < TwistedFate> How can I create a multi-user setup? I have 1 computer but I would like to make it so my mom can use it as well at the same time as i am
01:53 < TwistedFate> just on another monitor + mouse and keyboard
01:54 < jml2> TwistedFate, look up "multi-seat" "X11"
01:54 < jml2> TwistedFate, X11 supports this..
01:54 < stephen> Ok, this is a problem. Do not play lovingninetails in DOTA 2. He will spend 75% of his gold on couriers to write marching band like graffiti in the river, then the other 25% on wards to protect said couriers.
01:54 < koala_man> ok thanks for the warning
01:54 < stephen> THe only smart version I saw was giving them all orbs of poison
01:55 < stephen> lol, jk
01:55 < stephen> Sorry, weird mood. I actually do want to chat up some system level stuff today
01:55 < hehehe> open source rap exist?
01:55 < sssilver> test
01:55 < stephen> hehehe, noice
01:55 < ayecee> almost certainly
01:55 < stephen> open source rhapsodist
01:55 < jml2> sssilver, your test aint the best
01:55 < phogg> stephen: too bad you can't make chickens carry dagon any more
01:56 < ayecee> but it's better than all the rest
01:56 < sssilver> nice, it works
01:56 < ayecee> wait. i guess that would make it the best.
01:56 < stephen> phogg, right. and I don't think orb of venom stacks
01:56 < stevendale> xD
01:56 < phogg> stephen: it was a secret weapon until it started stacking into useful recipes
01:56 < sssilver> I've managed to spawn a universe that seems to function as intended.
01:57 < stephen> op in source, rap: so dissed.
01:57 < stevendale> This is true stephen
01:57 < blaztek> hehehe: ytcracker does hip-hop
01:57 < phogg> this channel is weirder than usual this evening
01:57 < ayecee> it's all about the pentiums baby
01:58 < stevendale> Nah
01:58 < stevendale> core 2 Duos are great
01:58 < Sonolin> indeed
01:58 < stevendale> Especially if the clocks are above 3 GHz
01:59 < Sonolin> they could've kept milking that arch for a while
01:59 < prussian> nah. you gotta have those 50 pipeline stages at like 6-7 GHz clocks
02:01 < hehehe> yo yo wazzup I was a scared boy and I run some .... called windows, got some viruses... could not open my fav page, raged and killed my notebook,  runned outside and got into a fight, got a left hook, felt spaced and lied next to back alley trash bin, when someone said get Linux son. What it is I wondered feeling weird, could it help me to feel complete???
02:01 < hehehe> A stranger gave me an usb stick, and a old netbook to plug it in, I saw some terminal and typed cd ls and some other commands lol
02:02 < jkemppainen> uh
02:02 < jkemppainen> what?
02:02 < Sonolin> lmao hahahaha
02:02 < Sonolin> this is great
02:02 < Ruint> hehehe: 2/10 try harder
02:02 < jkemppainen> in all seriousness, if a stranger gave me a USB stick and told me to put it into one of my computers, I'd tell them to shove it
02:03 < jkemppainen> especially with crud like that mobo frier out there
02:03 < stevendale> There's a motherboard frier now?
02:03 < phogg> hehehe: 2/10 needs more bel air
02:03 < stevendale> Being put in hospital from my exploding PSU was bad enough
02:03 < Ruint> hehehe: try pasting from slashdot trolls or unix haters from here: http://rolloffle.churchburning.org/fortune/
02:03 < stevendale> I bought a second hand computer and somebody put an explosives device in the powersupply unit
02:04 < Ruint> hehehe: i'm all for copypasta but your is just bad
02:04 < hehehe> bel air hmm
02:04 < hehehe> :P
02:04 < jkemppainen> stevendale: yeah, I mean the thing that charges up a capacitor and unloads it into the USB port
02:04 < jkemppainen> potentially frying your mobo
02:04 < stevendale> It wouldn't fry and apple computer
02:04 < jkemppainen> that's exactly why I said "potentially" -.-
02:05 < hehehe> Ruint: yo boy go on unleash your toy called humour not and lets see what you got
02:05 < jkemppainen> lol
02:05 < hehehe> :P
02:05 < stevendale> Because apple ones have seperate circuit boards for the usb ports
02:05 < Ruint> hehehe: there is no need to be upset
02:05 < stevendale> It'd still be a $200 repair with Apple though, because they'd replace everything anyway
02:05 < Ruint> i was trying to help
02:05 < Ruint> : http://i.imgur.com/9aQcl3S.gif
02:05 < Ruint> :(
02:06 < lupine> I fixed my own mobile phone screen today
02:06 < lupine> FPftw
02:06 < stevendale> And they'd say "Or you could spend $900 and get this brand new shiny macbook and always run the latest and greatest games and software~! $300 off if you trade in your old computer~!"
02:07 < lupine> $900? more like $2500
02:07 < stephen> MC 68 Onaynee
02:07 < stevendale> Macbook Airs aren't that expensive lupine :P
02:07 < phogg> a 900USD macbook will not be running "the latest and greatest games"
02:07 < lupine> nor will a $2500 mac
02:08 < lupine> the whole thing is a surplus value extraction scheme
02:08 < stevendale> Man, I run the latest and greatest games on this laptop from 2012
02:08 < stevendale> CPU~Dual core Intel Core i5-3340M (-HT-MCP-) speed/max~1279/3400 MHz Kernel~4.9.0-6-amd64 x86_64 Up~1 day Mem~719.6/3861.6MB HDD~320.1GB(21.2% used) Procs~204 Client~HexChat 2.12.4 inxi~2.3.5
02:08 < lupine> gold rush -> rich proles -> $1000 tins of beans
02:08 < stevendale> Extended renderer info (GLX_MESA_query_renderer):
02:08 < stevendale> OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ivybridge Mobile
02:08 < lupine> -> poor proles
02:08 < phogg> are we starting a hardware measuring contest?!
02:09 < hehehe> 1 night stand with a strange page another browser exploit trying to press ctrl alt del before it is too late.... @{
02:09 < lupine> no, it's just mac vs ROW
02:09 < hehehe> Round 1
02:09 < phogg> hehehe: this is not a poetry slam
02:09 < stevendale> In XP Ctrl Alt Delete opens task manager
02:09 < stevendale> :P
02:10 < phogg> stevendale: that's in all of NT; a weird and idiotic choice
02:11 < phogg> The proper key sequence to reboot  a computer is OpenApple+Ctrl+Reset. Obviously.
02:12 < MC6809E> I bring the power like them bricks, open code before linux
02:14 < MC6809E> My controllers had no drivers, raised from hardware, not stock pricers
02:17 < MC6809E> Soul of a child trapped inside Poltregeist pushed cart in side.
02:18 < MC6809E> And then I paused... the TV drowning me in green.
02:18 < MC6809E> How's some ancient apparition shit haunting technology?
02:19 < stephen> It'd be something like that
02:19 < lupine> I get the sense of rap
02:19 < lupine> without any of the skill of rap
02:20 < stephen> Are you describing your own understanding or critiquing on my posts lupine ?
02:20 < lupine> definitely the former
02:21 < snugger> test
02:21 < stephen> Rappers are the modern bards.
02:21 < lupine> definitely
02:21 < stephen> They've just forgotten much of their historian responsibilities
02:22 < stephen> Some get it. Check out Kilo Art of Fact some time. Dude gets it.
02:22 < snugger> Why are you talking about rapping
02:22 < snugger> Rapping is basically angry poetry with an annoying beat
02:23 < snugger> and backwards hats
02:23 < kazdax> geometry
02:23 < kazdax> is that the right way to say it ?
02:23 < revel> The right way of saying what, geometry?
02:24 < kazdax> yes
02:24 < kazdax> i thought i had the spelling wrong
02:24 < kazdax> blah blah blah
02:25 < kazdax> how much does math play a role in computers ?
02:25 < kazdax> anything interesting the field of hacking ?
02:25 < snugger> A lot. But most computers have a calculator app so it doesn't matter
02:25 < kazdax> ha ha ha
02:25 < revel> snugger: But what about ones that don't?
02:26 < snugger> You're fucked
02:26 < kazdax> i am sure something can be done with mathemtics and computers
02:26 < stephen> snugger, you quite horribly pigeon-holed history's most recent vocal music innovation. Congrats on coming off as ignorant.
02:26 < snugger> You're saying rap is innovative?
02:26 < kazdax> rap like anything else is an Art
02:27 < stephen> I said it was an innovation
02:27 < cmj> wait
02:27  * snugger snickers
02:27 < revel> Everything is art.
02:27 < revel> This sentence is art.
02:27 < stephen> I made no statement as to it's comparative worth
02:27 < revel> Its.
02:27 < snugger> "This toilet paper I wiped my ass with is art"
02:27 < stephen> That's because art is nothing more than the artist's choice.
02:28 < snugger> Not saying all rap is bad
02:28 < kazdax> turn your self into a dog and hog on some bacon
02:28 < stephen> One decides if they appreciate that choice and to what degree
02:28 < snugger> Marshall has made some pretty good songs in his career
02:28 < stephen> done
02:28 < snugger> But most rap is hogwash
02:28  * cmj crawls back underneath the floor tiles
02:28 < lupine> most of everything is hogwash
02:28 < lupine> welcome to capitalism
02:29 < revel> Calm down, pinko.
02:29 < stephen> snugger, You ever heard Aesop Rock? (Not to be confused with A$AP ROCKY)
02:29 < snugger> what if I live in a communist country, lupine
02:29 < stephen> My wife's green enchiladas aren't hogwash. They are amazing
02:29 < stephen> As are her tacos
02:29 < stephen> She fries her own shells
02:29 < snugger> >having a wife
02:29 < snugger> fell for the meme man
02:30 < ||JD||> snugger: In soviet russia bed sleeps on you
02:30 < lupine> snugger: I'd have to ask which one
02:30 < lupine> they're quite variable
02:30 < lupine> nepal, in particular, barely counts
02:30 < stephen> all her tacos are great
02:30 < snugger> I don't actually live in one...
02:30 < snugger> but if I DID
02:30 < stephen> 3 kids so, yeah
02:31 < revel> snugger: I don't think Oregon is communist.
02:31 < lupine> so let's pretend you do and have a worked example
02:31 < lupine> pick one
02:31 < storge> damn commies
02:31 < snugger> revel: That's why I said if I DID
02:31 < stevendale> Awoooooooooooooo!
02:31 < stephen> legalized weed, mountains, beards, and accurately named municipal charges for traffic offenses?? Yeah, that's communist
02:32 < lupine> well, it's not
02:32 < stevendale> Legalize awoo
02:32 < stephen> And it's wonderful
02:32 < lupine> stevendale: mastodon user?
02:32 < revel> Are the Americans waking up? What is this?
02:32 < stevendale> lupine, Naw just a furry
02:32 < stephen> You even became more communist by refusing to pay others to pump your gas.
02:32 < snugger> The dirty south
02:32 < JasonSilver> Anyone here know much about enscript? Having trouble with one-liner and line-breaks
02:32 < stephen> They should just do it for you
02:32 < snugger> stevendale: OwO Hi fwen!
02:33 < stevendale> hewwo snugger =3
02:33 < lupine> the two are so closely linked
02:33 < stephen> 3rd coast!
02:33 < lupine> yiff yiff
02:33  * snugger definitely does not have e621 open in another tab
02:33 < stevendale> OwO Naw no yiff in here
02:33 < stevendale> slash msg stevendale for yiff =3
02:33 < lupine> day 34: the natives have still not realised I am faking it
02:34 < lupine> the performative aspects of yiffery are disgusting, yet quaint
02:34 < stevendale> http://legalizeawoo.com/
02:35 < stephen> Droppin' shells on folks, watch them move into the cloud, finding their hidden shit and lettin' errbody know...
02:35 < stephen> Yeah, the link is strong
02:35 < snugger> lupine: *notices ur hatespeech* UwU
02:35 < snugger> wait
02:35 < snugger> whats awoo
02:36 < lupine> it's only hate speech if it conveys hate
02:36 < lupine> disgust is distinct
02:36 < snugger> Let's change the topic
02:36 < snugger> Quickly
02:36 < stephen> This whole thing started in reference to art, not people, so we're good
02:36 < lupine> awoo
02:36 < stephen> Opinions expressed have targeted a form of expression, not a living creature
02:36 < stephen> SAFE!
02:37 < stevendale> Man
02:37 < stevendale> This is the third time I've had to change my shirt this morning
02:37 < snugger> What is richard stallman's political ideology?
02:37 < stephen> However, snugger, you've got 5 minutes in the box for trying to pull some lame shit
02:37 < stevendale> once when I woke up, once when my cat peed on me and once when I just spilt tomato sauce
02:37 < snugger> Eh?
02:38 < snugger> What?
02:38 < stephen> Or were you quoting lupine ?
02:38 < lupine> fite me bro
02:39 < revel> Could we please not discuss furry stuff or politics here?
02:39 < snugger> I'm not sure what you're talking about
02:39 < stephen> lol
02:39 < snugger> revel: KEK I asked what richard stallman's political ideology was.
02:39 < stevendale> revel, If "no furries allowed" gets puts in the rules, then shure
02:39 < stephen> This is all technical jargon for Rhapsonix
02:39 < snugger> That's not exactly what you'd call a heated debate
02:39 < stephen> I apologize if the context got thick
02:40 < stevendale> I'm not going to stop something just because a couple of people don't like it based on opinion
02:40 < revel> stevendale: I'm saying "let's get back on-topic, please"
02:40 < revel> Since at least one person has had their question flooded out by... this already.
02:41 < snugger> Basically furries and politics. Welcome to ##linux
02:41 < stevendale> And here I was thinking everybody knew how to use a scrollbar
02:41 < stephen> Ok, so let's talk about linux core architecture. How does everyone feel about the future of exploits around branch prediction and cache timing exploitation vs the fixes implemented?
02:42 < revel> At least nobody can say I didn't try.
02:42 < stephen> Are we sitting on 10 years of another radar detector type back and forth
02:42 < stephen> ?
02:42 < stephen> I'm serious
02:43 < stephen> If any people have the heads to talk about this sort of thing in a public forum, it's ##linux folks
02:43 < stephen> Spectre and Meltdown exploits for the uninitiated.
02:43  * stevendale puts on a tin-foil hat to prevent Russia hacking into her brain
02:44 < stephen> (heh, that last line reads time travel if you think about it)
02:44 < Loshki> stevendale: oops. Too late...
02:44 < lupine> it's also possible that nobody knows anything about enscript
02:44 < lupine> I know I don't
02:44 < stephen> stevendale, yeah, they realized what you were thinking about by reading the unclicked images you moused over already.
02:45 < lupine> but point taken and so on
02:47  * stevendale clicks on PC and releases Pidgeotto 
02:52  * stevendale has a minute's silents for SnapGear
02:55 < stevendale> They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning, We will remember them.
02:56 < Buliarous> hey at my wits end with this i'm running centos 7 3.10.0-693.21.1.el7.x86_64 and have no sound. it looks like I have no kernel drivers or modules in use for my audio interface (just audio jack from the motherboard)  Here is the audio interface i am trying to use: https://paste.linux.community/view/0175b61b the output is from lspci -v
02:57 < stevendale> You need to update your kernel Buliarous
02:58 < stevendale> Asumming you don't want to be hacked by Russia...
02:58 < stevendale> Or the US when they "strike back" and "vigilante's" join and in there's friendly fire
02:59 < revel> Buliarous: Are you sure the driver/kernel aren't there? What does `lspci -k` say?
02:59 < Buliarous> stevendale: I know but that is a whole-nother can of worms with centos -- believe me i have tried but 4.16 means a whole-nother can of worms for centos and runngin vms on it as a host -- maybe i should just do a clean reinstall lol
03:00 < Buliarous> 00:14.2 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) (rev 40)
03:00 < Buliarous>         Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Device 854b
03:00 < Buliarous> revel: the kernel line is missing
03:01 < revel> Guess so. Though, just something to consider, maybe using an enterprise OS on a desktop isn't a great idea?
03:02 < stevendale> I can watch this for hours: http://map.norsecorp.com/
03:02 < Buliarous> revel: yeah no kidding lol
03:03 < xamithan> Any reason you aren't using Fedora?
03:03 < lupine> ervery reason
03:03 < lupine> consider stretch. it has 4.14 in backports and is rock-solid
03:03 < revel> If you're already into Redhat, then Fedora might be a good choice on a desktop machine. Not that I've ever personally used it myself.
03:03 < cmj> does that use snd_hda_intel ?
03:03 < lupine> the update cycle for fedora is insane
03:04 < revel> lupine: Not for a desktop machine.
03:04 < lupine> and if you fall behind, you get in trouble fast
03:04 < lupine> yes, for a desktop machine
03:04 < hehehe> lupine: remove shoes relax and sleep
03:04 < hehehe> lol
03:04 < lupine> sleep is for the weak
03:04 < xamithan> You sure you aren't thinking of arch?  I've never had a serious problem since like fedora 20
03:04 < Buliarous> revel: stevendale: not a good one, given the hell i've been through getting this baby running i think I already got everything I setout to from running centos on home machine
03:04 < lupine> definitely thinking of fedora
03:04 < lupine> consider that number
03:04 < lupine> we're up to - what - fc27 now?
03:05 < xamithan> Yeah
03:05 < lupine> your honour, I rest my case
03:05 < xamithan> Ok?
03:06 < revel> Buliarous: Maybe, just maybe it wouldn't be as hard to get a regular distro set up on a desktop as it is to set up an enterprise server distro on a desktop?
03:07 < Buliarous> revel: believe me i know, i set out with the goal of becoming a centos expert.. I think I'm there now...
03:07 < lupine> stretch is where it's at
03:08 < xamithan> stretch is lame,  go buster =)
03:08 < triceratux> siduction ftw
03:08 < lupine> stretch, + bpos where necessary
03:08 < lupine> correct balance of stability and featurefulness
03:09 < revel> bpos? You mean backports?
03:09 < lupine> aye
03:10 < snugger> So I just tried Cinnamon for the first time
03:10 < snugger> The DE of course
03:10 < xamithan> cinnamon is tasty
03:10 < snugger> It's amazing! I think I found my new favorite DE.
03:10 < lupine> how did it rate on a scale of 0 - awoo?
03:10  * Buliarous sits and listens on his borked centos desktop machine until a specific flavor catches his eye and he decides to nuke the blasted thing
03:10 < snugger> lupine: awooo
03:11 < lupine> enthusiastic
03:11 < lupine> I generally prefer vanilla gnome
03:11 < snugger> really nice OOTB. Uses upt o date technologies too
03:11 < snugger> I like GNOME but lack of customization is what's driving me away from it
03:11 < lupine> kde is dead to me since 4.0
03:11 < Buliarous> xfce yo
03:11 < lupine> I've come to view customization as an evil
03:11 < lupine> I barely modify ~/.bashrc any more
03:11 < snugger> How did you figure that lupine
03:12 < lupine> I can reliably operate every (linux) machine I come across
03:12 < snugger> Customization has 0 downsides, unless it's completely buggy and is in dozens of seperate programs like in KDE Plasma
03:12 < xamithan> Don't like customization is fine but evil?  ...
03:12 < xamithan> evil is giving you a locked down system
03:12 < lupine> I don't depend on weirdness that I need to reproduce to a machine before I can be productive
03:13 < lupine> the capability to modify is quite different from the actuality of modification
03:13 < Sveta> The ability to customize how a computer works is central to software freedom. Without it, the computer does something else, perhaps something that you don't know about, and you are left unable to control it.
03:13 < snugger> dear lord lmao
03:13 < lupine> yes, being able to do so is important
03:13 < Sveta> :-)
03:13 < xamithan> So its important but evil ?
03:13 < Buliarous> lupine: so you use i3m?
03:13 < lupine> no, gnome-shell
03:14 < lupine> xamithan: making gratuitous use of it is evil
03:14 < m1n> um I recently switched to termite, and in a config file, I see a tilde above a double quotation mark, but it is on the same line. I am very confused. Has anyone ever experienced this? I cannot find it on the interwebs.
03:14 < gkwhc> hey guys, how can i know whether the RTL8723BS (Wifi/BT chip on asus tinkerboard) can link up with BT keyboard/mouse, and act as a "speaker" from connecting to a cellphone, at the same time?
03:14 < lupine> or more accurately, ill-advised when you end up working on a wide range of machines whose setup you have no control over
03:15 < lupine> m1n: hexedit will tell you what bytes are producing that character
03:15 < lupine> but what's the actual problem?
03:15 < stephen> gkwhc, Look for what bluetooth profiles the device has. Typically these radios can run one instance of any given profile type it supports
03:15 < stevendale> Do you use Windows 10 lupine
03:15 < m1n> https://ptpb.pw/nHla.png no lupine it's a regular double quote inside vim
03:15 < stevendale> No customisation needed there
03:15 < stephen> So many instaces, but only 1 copy of each profile type
03:16 < m1n> I even deleted the character then replaced it with another quote to be sure
03:16 < lupine> stevendale: no, I modify my personal and working life to have no windows influence whatsoever
03:16 < lupine> this works out as a net benefit
03:16 < gkwhc> stephen: so BT can only run one profile at one given time?
03:16 < m1n> It doesn't happen in other files … this is the only time I have noticed it actually
03:16 < snugger> Can somebody explain what's so evil about using Google as a search engine? What does it do that's unethical? I switched to DuckDuckGo awhile ago but forgot why
03:17 < stephen> gkwhc, A bluetooth device can run many instances at once, so long as each of those instances has a different device profile
03:17 < stephen> ie: only one keyboard at a time/
03:17 < stephen> Only one mouse at a time, only one speaker at a time
03:17 < stephen> So it can run speaker, keybord, mouse all at once
03:17 < m1n> snugger: nothing except that it tracks all of your search information and tries to associate it with your google account and your ip for whatever purposes it feels it needs to. It also passes your info to websites when it shouldn't
03:17 < stephen> That's fine
03:17 < xamithan> Other than it logging everything you do to sell advertisements snugger?
03:18 < stephen> But keyboard, speakers, and headet? nope.
03:18 < gkwhc> stephen: ah yes, but i believe thats only on 4.1, not on 4.0?
03:18 < snugger> m1n: That's all?
03:18 < snugger> ;-)
03:18 < stephen> gkwhc, bluetooth has been multi-device for a long time
03:18 < snugger> Now I remember why I switched
03:19 < m1n> pretty much. Just use duckduckgo with the !g flag for encrypted google, and !gh for searching github, etc etc and try to use just plain ole duckduckgo.com where possibru, and it's all good.
03:19 < m1n> simply showing google that people are concerned about privacy is good enough for now
03:19 < stephen> I can't remember the last time I had to worry about running a bt keybord and headphones at the same time. They will both work just time simultaneously
03:19 < stephen> fine^
03:19 < snugger> Sad. Google has done a lot for Linux, at least supporting it and advancing open source technologies.
03:20 < snugger> Greed is a bitch
03:20 < dogbert2> wireless adapters (USB) for linux, any recommendations?
03:20 < dogbert2> running armbian
03:20 < xamithan> I'm just glad google keeps most of that information to itself to sell advertisements instead of selling it off in bulk like every other company out there
03:20 < stevendale> dogbert2, Oh...
03:20 < Buliarous> lupine: so why should i use stretch over fedora?
03:20 < gdonald> dpkg
03:20 < m1n> oh lupine it was a weird character in the file (revealed with g8 in vim ... sorry I didn't believe you mate)
03:21 < stevendale> Is Gentoo worth it
03:21 < dogbert2> dpkg and apt-get
03:21 < stevendale> I use old hardware
03:21 < snugger> stevendale: NO
03:21 < lupine> Buliarous: better repository curation. fewer upgrades. more reliable upgrades
03:21 < m1n> it was the following character >:O
03:21 < snugger> ESPECIALLY if you use old hardware
03:21 < gkwhc> stephen: right, well thats because both keyboard and headphones are slaves. but this chip/tinkerboard im asking to do, i want it to accept BT keyboard (so acting as a master, i believe), while mimicking a speaker profile so my phone can  play audio through it
03:21 < Sveta> stevendale: what distribution do you use with this hardware, right now?
03:21 < stevendale> Sveta, Debian Stretch o/
03:21 < Sveta> stevendale: debian stretch is ok, you may wish to keep using it
03:22  * m1n waves at Sveta o/ ))))))))) ) )  )  )   ) long time no seeee; how goes?
03:22 < snugger> Literally the only thing that's notable about Gentoo is USE flags and the amount of information Portage displays
03:22 < snugger> And at the expense of that you have to deal with compiling everything from source
03:23 < Sveta> dogbert2: take a look at https://tehnoetic.com/TET-N150HGA https://tehnoetic.com/TET-N300 https://tehnoetic.com/TET-N300HGA
03:23 < stephen> gkwhc, I've often wondered why what you describe it such a problem, and then I realized why
03:24 < stephen> By implementing a radio that did that one would be introducing a simple way to perform MITM for bluetooth
03:24 < stephen> So you're likely not going to find you can do what you're trying without adding another physical bluetooth radio
03:25 < lupine> useflags are terrible
03:25 < lupine> once I compiled all of kde without `-lpng`
03:25 < stephen> buahahaha
03:25 < stephen> did it ASCII-term?
03:26 < lupine> gentoo's impact on the world is best measured in terms of sq km amazon rainforest
03:26 < stephen> lupine, I disagree. I believe recursion depth is a better unit of measure
03:26 < snugger> you know what I think is truly an obsolete distro? slackware. having no dependency resolution just baffles me.
03:27 < lupine> slackware fills an important space
03:27 < stephen> snugger, the only reason I like slackware is to teach a person linux. It was very effective for me.
03:27 < lupine> that of upfront simplicity
03:27 < stephen> yup
03:27 < lupine> I wouldn't use it as a daily driver thoug
03:27 < stephen> slackware was my first distro
03:27 < stephen> second was gentoo
03:28 < snugger> there comes a point where simplicity interferes with productivity
03:28 < stephen> snugger, You'
03:28 < snugger> ?
03:28 < stephen> re right. I would never recomment slackware as a permenent desktop
03:29 < dogbert2> probably will buy this: https://www.amazon.com/MK-electronics-Adapter-Network-Notebooks/dp/B01N11WTE7/ref=sr_1_cc_3?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1524014720&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=USB+Nano+wifi+edimax
03:29 < stevendale> Maybe I should upgrade stretch to buster then sid
03:29 < lupine> I remember installing both the original RH6, and either potato or woody, from CD ordered via magazine ad
03:29 < lupine> debian uber alles
03:29 < snugger> My first distro was Debian
03:30 < stephen> But if you need to get a person to learn linux & admin and then use the machine for their primary for a while while learning? Yup.
03:30 < snugger> Agreed
03:30 < dogbert2> Libre Computer - Distro Name	Icon Debian GNU/Linux 9.4 (stretch)/Kernel Version	4.14.32-meson64 (SMP) aarch64
03:30 < stevendale> It'd probably be more sensible to upgrade all the available strech packages to backports versions if they're available, then upgrade to buster then sid o/
03:30 < lupine> also cool from back in the day: corel linux, turbolinux, a few others
03:30 < stevendale> Less risk of failure
03:30 < lupine> but not suse
03:30 < lupine> never suse
03:30 < snugger> Wish Alienbob maintained packages for Debian or Fedora. Alienbob is one of slackware's killer features
03:30 < snugger> lol
03:31 < stephen> I remember installing DSL on a bunch of underpowered old Dell kaptops so I could sell them for 40 a piece
03:31 < stephen> Neighborhood folks got the internet that week
03:31 < stephen> Damn Small Linux
03:32 < lupine> alpine's pretty much murdered that space
03:32 < stephen> Xubuntu was too confusing for most of them
03:32 < quint> Anyone familiar with the DNS zone editor in cpanel?
03:32 < kazdax> do most modern laptops can run linux easily ?
03:32 < quint> Need to set two values under one TXT, what's the proper way to delimit values in the zone editor??
03:33 < kazdax> do i need to look for anything specific ?
03:33 < snugger> How would Xubuntu be too confuing for anyone
03:34 < kazdax> i cant find a minimal installter for debian , opensuse or fedora
03:34 < snugger> Debian does
03:34 < stephen> Gnome like interfaces don't sit well with Windows natives
03:34 < snugger> I think all of them have a netinst
03:35 < stephen> These were dell 286 laptops
03:35 < stephen> I mean OOOOLD
03:36 < stephen> and this was 15 years ago
03:36 < kazdax> cool
03:36 < kazdax> thanks snugger
03:36 < stephen> So laptops sitting in a closet at a corporation because they were useless... 15 years ago
03:36 < cmj> but do they run folding@home?
03:37 < stephen> SETI@home bro
03:37 < cmj> heh
03:37 < stephen> every one of them ran it when I wasn't working on them, waiting their turn
03:38 < stephen> Out of 30 laptops I took home, I was able to construct 12-13 usuable machines
03:39 < stephen> I paid the company half what I sold them for. Best $250 I ever made
03:39 < dogbert2> heh...
03:40 < stevendale> :3
03:43 < dannylee> ...
03:43 < Roserin> ...
03:44 < dannylee> hi
03:44 < Roserin> hi
03:45 < ipatrol> Somehow my LVM vg is broken
03:45 < xamithan> What does broken mean
03:45 < ipatrol> broken as in "lvm doesn't think it's a volume group" level of broken
03:46 < xamithan> it shows up in lvs ?
03:46 < xamithan> er vgs
03:46 < ipatrol> nope
03:46 < xamithan> Then I don't think it is a volume group
03:46 < ipatrol> I know it at least was one
03:46 < ipatrol> It still has the lvm flag on it
03:47 < xamithan> Does it show up if you do a lvm vgscan -v ?
03:47 < ipatrol> nope
03:47 < ipatrol> gparted says its type is unknown
03:54 < stephen> maybe use dd to correct the corrupted bits?
03:55 < stephen> ipatrol, https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/disaster-with-lvm-637951/#post3134891
03:55 < ipatrol> stephen: problem is there appears to be like 4-5 copies of the metadata in the first 255 blocks, with some null bytes sprinkled nere and there
03:56 < stephen> ipatrol, raid?
03:56 < ipatrol> stephen: I also have no archive or backup
03:56 < ipatrol> nope, single disk
03:56 < stephen> Have you attempted multiple restores of this partition before?
03:57 < stephen> because it sounds like to attempted an in place restore of a system partition with caching turned off
03:58 < stephen> basically the drive was reading the data just behind the data it was writing and ended up looping on itself
03:59 < ipatrol> stephen: no, I haven't
03:59 < stevendale> Real men hull tank
04:00 < stephen> I'd get on another machine and build an empty version of the partition you're wanting, and dd copy all the initial bits you are looking for, then write them directly to the foobard drive to clear out the corruption.
04:00 < ipatrol> stephen: that'd be nice if I just had machines lying around
04:00 < stephen> Oh, almost forgot, make sure you grow the partition to the same size before dd'ing it's data
04:01 < stephen> ipatrol just go start up a free instance in the cloud
04:01 < stephen> Azure or AWS or something
04:01 < ipatrol> stephen: this volume group is half a terabyte
04:01 < stephen> have you used up all freebies everywhere?
04:01 < stephen> ipatrol: you're not copying the data to the cloud machine
04:02 < stephen> you're just creating an empty partition on a drive
04:02 < stephen> If you can find out what data sets size in the header data instead of growing, you can save yourself a short charge on large storage
04:03 < stephen> You need to build a big empty can, then peel the top and bottom off of it and slap it on your damaged can
04:04 < ipatrol> are you implying I have money for storage charges?
04:04 < stephen> Nope, I'm implying there's a way to avoid them if you want to
04:04 < stephen> Just takes a little more research
04:04 < ipatrol> hold on, I got the metadata part
04:04 < stephen> because I aint going to research it
04:05 < stephen> Im headed home
04:05 < stephen> 9pm
04:05 < stephen> later
04:16 < evanesoteric> is this a proper iptable rule?:  https://pastebin.com/raw/Z2UwDBrp
04:17 < evanesoteric> (aside of that spaceing issue)
04:17 < stevendale> Steam support is a bunch of children
04:20 < Psi-Jack> evanesoteric: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
04:31 < kazdax> does debian netinstal have a GUI installer ?
04:31 < kazdax> its only 290 gig
04:31 < kazdax> oops i mean mb
04:32 < Dreaman> debian is not good idea
04:32 < Dreaman> to install
04:33 < lf94> Anyone know of any tools that let me get a quick overview of what types of files take up a percentage of a directory?
04:33 < kazdax> why not dreamman
04:33 < kazdax> i have 4 options
04:33 < kazdax> i can download debian , opensuse , fedora or some other one
04:33 < kazdax> dont remember what it was called
04:33 < noodlepie> I use Debian and Gentoo regularly. They are both great.
04:34 < kazdax> and also i cant find a minimal installer for opensuse and for fedora
04:34 < kazdax> so i am using the one provided by debian
04:34 < evanesoteric> stick with Debian, for sure.
04:36 < noodlepie> lf94, so you mean you want to query the file name grouped by filetype extension and sorted acs
04:36 < noodlepie> acsendingly
04:36 < noodlepie> by size
04:36 < noodlepie> ?
04:36 < lf94> That would be one way to do it
04:37 < lf94> Except I kind of dont want to count the extensions by hand :)
04:37 < lf94> I'm looking at +3000 files
04:38 < lordvadr> I'm looking for a way to determine the user currently logged in to the active x session controlling the display. Any ideas?
04:39 < lf94> Something to do with find . | xargs file | awk '{ print $2 }' | count-the-same-output-lines
04:39 < lordvadr> lf94: I didn't see your initial question. What are you trying to do?
04:40 < lf94> I'd like to display what types of files make up a directory as a percentage
04:40 < lf94> 60% images, 30% text, 10% audio
04:41 < lf94> obviously this is not as easy as I imagine, so something close to this will do
04:41 < lf94> i.e. using file output
04:41 < lf94> `file`
04:42 < lordvadr> One sec
04:42 < oplevunus> find $whateverdir -type f -exec file -b {} \; | sort | uniq -c | sort -k1,1n
04:43 < oplevunus> lf94: This does not give relative percentages, but absolute numbers
04:44 < lf94> perfect
04:44 < lf94> That is good enough :) thank you
04:44 < lordvadr> That, and `find . -type f | wc -l` will give you a total.
04:44 < stevendale> Intel GMA 4500MHD <3
04:45 < dell00> I just do `find | grep $whateverfileyouwant`
04:45 < dell00> lf94
04:45 < dell00> To find files.
04:45 < dell00> It's just another way of doing it.
04:46 < lf94> No...that is not what I wanted :P
04:46 < dell00> lf94: hm... perhaps I misread your question... dang.
04:46 < lf94> Lol this is pretty neat. 900 source files
04:47 < lf94> Want more of a challenge? Get the size of the files added together for each type
04:49 < blaztek> lf94: using find, you mean?
04:50 < snugger> What open-source technology are you excited for the most?
04:50 < snugger> I
04:50 < snugger> I'm personally excited about Flatpak
04:50 < snugger> And to a lesser extent snapd
04:51 < blaztek> I’m ignorant. What does flatpak and snapd do?
04:51 < lupine> nothing good
04:51 < lupine> imagine .dmg, but for linux
04:52 < dell00> lf94: "du -sh *" :P
04:52 < blaztek> Ahhh
04:52 < blaztek> Gotcha
04:52 < snugger> It's cross platform way of installing software
04:52 < lf94> blaztek, extending what oplevunus wrote.
04:53 < lordvadr> lf94: total="$(find . -type f | wc -l)"; echo $total; find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 file -b | sort | uniq -c | sort -n | awk "{print \$1/$total*100,\"%\",\$0}"
04:54 < lordvadr> Throw a `; print "Total: $total"` on there as well.
04:54 < dell00> lordvadr: wow, that's a *lot* more complicated than just "du -h"
04:54 < lf94> cant I just ignore the assignment
04:55 < lordvadr> dell00: That's an answer to his previous question.
04:55 < lf94> lordvadr, you are amazing.
04:55 < lf94> I need to learn about sort more...god damn.
04:56 < lf94> oh this isnt the file sizes
04:56 < dell00> GNU awk is more of it's own programming language, which is one reason why I don't even try to learn it.
04:56 < lordvadr> No, that's percentages for your previous question.
04:56 < lordvadr> lf94: Let me work on the filesize.
04:56 < lf94> right, this is nice too :)
04:56 < lf94> ok :D
04:57 < lordvadr> This is an assignment, right? Are you sure you're not supposed to work based on file suffix?
04:57 < lordvadr> Because you'll notice that the file command will give you garbage a lot of times.
04:57 < lf94> > this is an assignment
04:57 < lf94> no, this is me just curious
04:58 < lf94> I have a project at work that is massive but surely 1000 source files != 80mb
04:58 < lf94> it is ok. I am aware of file's output
04:59 < lf94> file is actually being very accurate for me
04:59 < lf94> Too accurate :D heh.
04:59 < lf94> again, not a real problem. I can add the few different entries up quickly
04:59 < lupine> depends on the file innit
04:59 < lupine> construct `c []int = {....}`
04:59 < lupine> consider*
05:02 < lf94> I can see a graphical tool like this being really useful
05:02 < energizer> When I open a giant file in a text editor, sometimes it slows down. What resource is the limiting factor here? What's slowing things down?
05:03 < lf94> I know there is directory breakdown tool written in GTK
05:03 < lf94> But that's not the same as this, because it's like an "area" breakdown, not just one directory
05:03 < lf94> energizer, depends on the text editor
05:03 < lf94> heavily depends
05:04 < lf94> Some editors only load text that you will see
05:04 < energizer> emacs
05:04 < energizer> btw you might like `ncdu`
05:04 < lf94> emacs, gap buffers...IIRC emacs has big-file mode
05:05 < energizer> vlfi?
05:05 < lf94> otherwise it does file preprocessing
05:05 < marktr> lf94: for ext in $(find -type f | sed 's/.\/.*\.//g' | grep -Ev '/' | sort | uniq); do echo -n "$ext: " && find . -iname "*.$ext" -print0 | du -ch --files0-from=- | tail -1; done
05:05 < lf94> energizer, no it's literally called something like big-file-mode
05:05 < lf94> built-in
05:05 < energizer> very-large-file, vlfi
05:05 < lf94> I forget I havent used it in ~3 years
05:06 < lf94> You forgot a quote somewhere marktr
05:06 < lf94> or something, quotes look ok
05:06 < lf94> When I paste it, it's showing me a prompt like it usually would when you forget a quote
05:06 < marktr> I mean it's running fine on my end...what's the error message?
05:07 < lf94> Just a >
05:07 < lf94> From what I see this is regular bash so...should be ok
05:07 < marktr> And you're certain you copied and pasted the whole line and didn't leave off the `; done`
05:07 < lf94> Oh I didnt leave off the ;, but I did leave off the done
05:07 < marktr> Yeah the done is actually a part of it
05:07 < lf94> done is for the 'for' I guess, whoops
05:07 < marktr> Yep
05:08 < lf94> whoa, this is sick
05:08 < lf94> +1 man, very cool
05:09 < marktr> You can put that in a script and then pipe the whole thing `sort -k2 -h` and it'll sort based on total size
05:09 < marktr> pipe the whole thing to*
05:09 < lordvadr> lf94: find . -type f | sed 's/\(.*\)/echo -n $(du "\1" | awk "{print \\$1}"); echo -n "  "; file -b "\1"/e'
05:10 < lordvadr> That will give you a size, followed by the output of file. At that point, summing the first column and grouping by the remainder of the string is tricky.
05:11 < lordvadr> At that point, I'd hack it into a csv file and let libreoffice do it. Or load it into a database table if you've got a db running somewhere. Maybe sqlite? sqlite is out of my wheel house.
05:12 < marktr> One could, in theory, write a pretty damn efficient version of this in Go and just use like an in memory sqlite database and do it from there
05:12 < marktr> But as long as it being fast isn't a critical issue my shell script will work
05:12 < qzo> Hello! I am running Alpine Linux on a poweredge R510, with a SAS HBA instead of the usual PERC card. Today, I rebooted by server and the machine hangs booting from the disk. The disk activity light does not even light up
05:13 < qzo> I am wondering if anyone has any idea what the issue is
05:13 < qzo> I am having a hard time figuring it out
05:13 < snugger> Any error messages?
05:13 < qzo> No new ones
05:13 < qzo> The cursor just flashes when it gets to the part where it should start booting from the drive
05:13 < stevendale> Reboot it again
05:14 < Psi-Jack> Interesting. That kind of equipment running Alpine Linux?
05:14 < snugger> Does Alpine have an IRC channel?
05:14 < qzo> I have tried the drive in a different PC and it worked
05:14 < stevendale> Reboot it a second time qzo
05:14 < qzo> stevendale, I have several times haha
05:14 < stevendale> Oh o/
05:14 < qzo> that was my first troubleshooting step
05:14 < qzo> Psi-Jack, I am using it as a SAN head
05:14 < snugger> kick the machine
05:14 < snugger> that always works
05:14 < stevendale> Tried resetting BIOS/UEFI settings qzo?
05:14 < qzo> stevendale, I did that as well, no dice
05:14 < qzo> And I tried re-installing the bootloader
05:14 < stevendale> ^ Don't do snugger's suggestion (Sorry hun)
05:14 < qzo> and re-flashing the SAS card
05:15 < marktr> No do snugger's suggestion, percussive maintenance is the only solution
05:15 < qzo> I am about to kick it
05:15 < lordvadr> lf94: find . -type f | sed 's/\(.*\)/echo -n $(du "\1" | awk "{print \\$1}"); echo -n "%%%"; file -b "\1"/e' | awk -F%%% '{arr[$2]+=$1} END {for (key in arr) printf("%s\t%s\n", arr[key], key)}' | sort -n
05:15 < lordvadr> There, try that one.
05:15 < Roserin> Kicking works with *physical* hardware errors, like engines or radiators
05:15 < qzo> unfortunately it has a 75TB DAS on top, I don't want to break the drives
05:15 < qzo> otherwise I would kick it
05:16 < stevendale> Brute force never solves problems, computers are made so there's no force required
05:16 < stevendale> Just fingernails and screwdrivers
05:16 < Psi-Jack> qzo: Just one server?
05:17 < qzo> Psi-Jack, I have 5 servers here
05:17 < lf94> lordvadr, this is file size?
05:17 < Psi-Jack> Ahh okay.
05:17 < qzo> this is the only one running alpine as the main OS though
05:17 < lf94> I think it's definitely right
05:18 < Psi-Jack> qzo: Just curious what you're calling a SAN. If it's just one system providing storage that's usually called a NAS. ;)
05:18 < qzo> Psi-Jack, It uses Fiberchannel and iSCSI technologies to share storage with the rest of the servers
05:18 < qzo> I would think that technically defines it as a SAN
05:18 < Psi-Jack> Still. One system is usually a NAS. :)
05:18 < qzo> as it does not share storage blocks over a conventional ethernet
05:19 < qzo> SAN is Storage Area Network
05:19 < Psi-Jack> Right. 1 system != Network of Storage.
05:19 < qzo> since this machine defines its own network over fiberchannel, it is a SAN head
05:20 < lordvadr> I'm trying to determine the user (name or id is fine) of the X11-logged-in user currently driving the display. Any ideas?
05:20 < qzo> If this was a single server sharing a storage block out over NFS/SMB or whatever, I would agree with yout
05:20 < qzo> but that is not the case
05:21 < qzo> It looks like I could have this solved faster if I just re-installed the operating system
05:21 < qzo> I was hoping to not have to do that
05:21 < qzo> but I can't seem to figure out why it wont boot to the boot drive
05:22 < vfbsilva> guys I have a  dell inspiron 7000 and wonder is there is any utility in linux which I can use to save my battery from wearing out. In windoes the dell manager sets its maximum charge level to 90%
05:22 < Psi-Jack> vfbsilva: Tried TLP?
05:22 < vfbsilva> Psi-Jack: I dont even know what it is
05:22 < marktr> vfbsilva: I believe that's a BIOS setting on most modern dells
05:23 < markasoftware> TLP doesn't do that on dell
05:23 < markasoftware> TLP does it for thinkpads only afaik
05:24 < Psi-Jack> No, TLP works for many things.
05:24 < markasoftware> (with the help of an extra kernel module)
05:24 < Psi-Jack> Dell included.
05:24 < qzo> If any of you where planning on connecting to my hentai image board tonight I am afraid you will be dissapointed, re-installing this OS is going to be a PITA
05:24 < Psi-Jack> I use TLP on my HP Envy, and it works quite well.
05:24 < qzo> and re-building the ZFS
05:24 < Psi-Jack> qzo: TMI. ;)
05:24 < markasoftware> you sure Psi-Jack? In the man page it says "Thinkpad Only" on the lines related to charge thresholds
05:24 < evanesoteric> can iptables do a ".... -j ACCEPT LOG --log-prefix "log comment"
05:25 < evanesoteric> accept and log in same line
05:25 < spare> nope nftables can
05:25 < markasoftware> i mean tlp works fine on non-thinkpad, just not for setting thresholds...or does it for you?
05:25 < Psi-Jack> markasoftware: I'm sure.
05:26 < Psi-Jack> It can specifically facilitate specific power saving functions of multiple things, not exclusive to ThinkPad.
05:26 < Psi-Jack> Such as power saving features specific to Skylake, Kabylake, etc.
05:26 < Psi-Jack> tlp basically does a heck of a lot better than just pm-utils.
05:27 < vfbsilva> Psi-Jack: it seems to do the trickery I need. Side note, cool it is written in german :p
05:27 < Psi-Jack> Went from 5 hours battery life to 12 hours on the HP Envy. 3 hours to 10 hours on my Toshiba Satellite.
05:29 < Psi-Jack> vfbsilva: Excellent. You should look into the fine-tuning of the configuration, as some things may be better than others depending on the hardware you have,e tc.
05:32 < vfbsilva> Psi-Jack: just properly enabled it using the archwiki
05:35 < vfbsilva> Psi-Jack: do you use it? do I need to do some trickery if I wuse the nvidia driver?
05:35 < Psi-Jack> I use it, but my laptops use Intel.
05:35 < Psi-Jack> Video that is. :)
05:36 < vfbsilva> Psi-Jack: oki I don`t use bumblebee so seems I need no trickery lemme reboot
05:36 < vfbsilva> lets see how it rolls
05:36 < Patrick> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP7vsrc5o8g
05:36 < kyloren_> Hi guys, anyone using nagiosxi here? Does default report good enough for your usage? Thanks
05:37 < Psi-Jack> kyloren_: Anyone mentioning Nagios or Icinga, I always recommend Zabbix to.
05:38 < Psi-Jack> I had an old nickname for Nagios which still applies to this day. Naggy-OS. Because instead of being useful, it's just noisy. :)
05:40 < vfbsilva> thanks it did the trickery
05:40 < Psi-Jack> vfbsilva: Glad to hear it.
05:40 < kyloren_> <Psi-Jack> ^^
05:41 < Psi-Jack> kyloren_: Eh?
05:43 < kyloren_> <Psi-Jack> Thanks for the recommendation. I have no choice actually. Need to come up with an idea regarding custom report for nagioxi.
05:43 < Psi-Jack> Reports, for the infidel big-wigs that don't understand tech? heh
05:44 < kyloren_> Right on
05:45 < alexey-nemovff> hi folks!
05:49 < Roserin> hi
05:49 < snugger> How do you guys feel about Go being a replacement for C?
05:50 < Sitri> It will never replace C.
05:51 < kyloren_> C is irreplaceable
05:52 < Roserin> what about Rust
05:52  * Roserin hides
05:54 < oplevunus> I just don't see myself using go for a z80, where even C is almost too much
05:54 < snugger> I think Go is a lot like C but is more strongly typed
05:55 < Sitri> ...
05:57 < luke-jr> snugger: IMO more likely Rust replaces C someday
05:58 < triceratux> http://allnewspipeline.com/Global_Cyber_Attacks_April_17.php
05:58 < snugger> luke-jr: What's so specal about rust? Never really learned that much about it
05:58 < Aph3x-WL> rust is supposed to be a contender for a c++ replacement, but it won't replace C
05:58 < snugger> C++ is so bad it doesn't need a replacement
06:01 < vfbsilva> Aph3x-WL: C is quirky, flawed, and an enormous success. ;)
06:03 < Aph3x-WL> you take that back, C is perfect D:
06:04 < vfbsilva> Aph3x-WL: I havent said that Ritchie said so :p
06:18 < dell00> snugger: what's a typed language?
06:18 < luke-jr> dell00: one without implicit variants for everything
06:19 < dell00> What are implicit variants?
06:19 < dell00> heh...
06:19 < dell00> I'm dumb.
06:20 < luke-jr> dell00: do you know what a variable is?
06:20 < dell00> Yes.
06:21 < dell00> It's a symbol with a value stored in it.
06:21 < luke-jr> some languages let you set a variable to a number, a string, an object, etc
06:21 < luke-jr> typed languages only allow you to set a given variable to a specific type
06:21 < luke-jr> so if 'abc' is declared as an integer, it can only ever be an integer
06:22 < dell00> So... you can't change the type of the variable at all?
06:22 < dell00> In typed languages?
06:22 < luke-jr> right
06:22 < dell00> Ok.
06:23 < luke-jr> this allows the compiler to use minimal storage for it (often a CPU register is sufficient) and generate code for only one type there
06:23 < [R]> so evertyhing i've read says there should be little difference between using 127.0.0.1 and using a unix domain socket for performance... but what about the local ip address of our ethernet card... would there be a performance differnece between it and 127.0.0.1?
06:23 < luke-jr> eg, abc / 2 only needs to generate code for integer division
06:24 < dell00> luke-jr: I see. Thanks :)
06:27 < dell00> [R]: 127.0.0.1 *is* the IP address your computer's loop address is. When you ping 127.0.0.1, you're just looping that ping back to your computer. So when you ping the local address of your ethernet card, you're going through the router you're connected to, then the router returns the packet back. Pinging 127.0.0.1 is obviously faster.
06:27 < [R]> no
06:27 < [R]> its no my public ip
06:27 < [R]> the ip on my etherent card
06:27 < dell00> Ohhh...
06:27 < dell00> You mean something like 192.168.0.2?
06:28 < Juesto> Apparently most people dont know networking
06:28 < [R]> eah
06:28 < [R]> i'm sending like ~1MB of data to that address, and its killing me
06:28 < [R]> but if i use a unix domain socket, it doesnt kill me so much
06:28 < [R]> but as i was leaving, i reaileid i wonder if i used 127.0.0.1, would it behave like the domain socket, or the same as the ethernet ip
06:28 < luke-jr> [R]: have you considered using a socketpair?
06:29 < dell00> [R]: The same.
06:29 < dell00> Juesto: true.
06:29 < [R]> luke-jr: this is between processes
06:29 < Juesto> The router does nothing, 127.0.0.0/24 is loopback; in fact loopback even got its own interface in systems like linux: lo0
06:29 < luke-jr> [R]: socketpairs can be in some cases too ;)
06:29 < Juesto> You can do whatever networking you wish
06:29 < Juesto> but you're limited to your own computer/yourself
06:29 < dell00> ^
06:29 < Rukus> does anyone here know how to clone a 32gb card to an 8gb card? there is less than 4gb data in use on the 32gb card...
06:29 < [R]> if its an unnamed pair
06:29 < luke-jr> Juesto: in Linux, it's just plain "lo"; and he was asking about an IP address assigned to an Ethernet interface
06:29 < [R]> how would the other process get it?
06:30 < luke-jr> [R]: send it over another socket; or fork
06:30 < [R]> but it also says it works on AF_UNIX
06:30 < Rukus> sdcard*
06:30 < [R]> so how would taht be any different than just using a regular unix domain?
06:30 < Juesto> Rukus: you dont unless you reduce the 32gb sdcard and make it fit for dd, or you can use dd's options to specify a ending size
06:31 < luke-jr> [R]: less exposure
06:31 < Juesto> ending point of the copy*
06:31 < Juesto> Ah, 127.0.0.1 doesnt get assigned anywhere :)
06:31 < oplevunus> You know, I always wondered why people bother typing out 127.0.0.1 when 127.1 is enough
06:31 < Juesto> check the rfc
06:31 < Juesto> lol
06:31 < luke-jr> Rukus: format the 8 GB card (mkfs.vfat or mkfs.ext4), then copy the files (rsync is good for this)
06:31 < [R]> luke-jr: its an embedded system running signed code, i dont care
06:31 < Juesto> because most people dont have idea about those aliases, oplevunus
06:32 < luke-jr> oplevunus: why 127.1 when you can use ::1?
06:32 < Juesto> matter of preference
06:32 < Juesto> Because ipv6 isnt a tendency or the network doesnt have ipv6
06:32 < Rukus> luke-jr, i figured i could jsut copy the file over. i wasn't sure.
06:32 < Rukus> thank you
06:32 < luke-jr> Juesto: localhost doesn't need a network
06:32 < [R]> and also, it has to accept mutliple clients
06:33 < luke-jr> and it's just plain dumb to not have IPv6 enabled today
06:33 < Juesto> Rukus: if you want to preserve the entire data then make use of dd, otherwise just copy/move around what you need with a file explorer ;)
06:33 < Juesto> You're welcome
06:33 < Rukus> Juesto, thanks man
06:34 < Juesto> luke-jr: well, that too, suppose you have a non-ipv6 system for whatever reason
06:34 < Juesto> :p
06:34 < luke-jr> Juesto: trash it
06:34 < Rukus> i read of a few methods online and wasnt sure which was best
06:34 < Juesto> eehhhhh
06:34 < Rukus> this helps!
06:34 < Juesto> ;)
06:34 < luke-jr> hm, I think my bootloader is compiled without IPv6 :/
06:35 < [R]> i added ipv6 to uboot
06:35 < [R]> that was fun..
06:35 < luke-jr> my bootloader is just Linux
06:35 < luke-jr> Petitboot
06:35 < Rukus> Juesto, luke-jr , for your own reference, i got this suggestion sent at me too: <leftyfb> Rukus: https://github.com/aoakley/cotswoldjam/tree/master/raspbian-shrink
06:37 < Juesto> Rukus: that somewhat overcomplicates things since it's for specific scenarios and automation purposes
06:37 < Rukus> ah
06:37 < Rukus> got ya
06:37 < Rukus> well looks like i got a few thought out suggestions to ponder on
06:38 < Rukus> in my case, it is a raspbian image i want to shrink anyway
06:38 < luke-jr> I'd go with the specialty shrink then
06:38 < Rukus> so there might be some structure i want to consider preserving
06:39 < Rukus> thanks for not flaming me about my poor google search on this :P
06:40 < luke-jr> it's not too late for that :p
06:40 < Rukus> i found many ways to do what i wanted, but sometimes its nice to hear what others say right out :)
06:40 < Rukus> our right*
06:40 < Rukus> dammit u get it
06:40 < Rukus> haha luke-jr , i can take it
06:46 < Kremator> so guys, can we talk about hte new MS/Linux thingy here?
06:47 < Kremator> or is as forbiden  as talking about budha in a christian church?
06:48 < mustu> depends what you wanna talk about in that topic
06:49 < Kremator> mustu, well, more like what does it really do to "enhance" security on IoT devices?
06:50 < Kremator> i mean, is just another linux box, if it can get ssh'd into it can get pretty much cracked
06:50 < mustu> alright.. do you've anything to share .. I'm listening at least
06:50 < kelpso> don't know enough about the industry to make this comment, but they're probs going to tackle red hat HARD
06:50 < Kremator> mustu, well, as far as i read, it's basically a linux kernel connected to the MS azure cloud right
06:50 < mustu> is that also available on the embeded windows version?
06:51 < mustu> kelpso that's far far
06:51 < Kremator> kelpso, maybe in a decade, who knows
06:51 < mustu> Kremator as the fat windows isn't what can ever run on most IOT
06:51 < Kremator> mustu, nope, i mean window does have connection to azure cloud "but"
06:52 < Kremator> mustu, ik what you mean, but still, they are focusing on security
06:52 < kelpso> the way i see it is it's an easy way to test if a move into the linux space would be profitable, because azure is no skin off their back
06:52 < Kremator> but i dont really see how having a headless device  connecting to internet 24/7 and meant to be unmonitored would be secure
06:53 < Kremator> kelpso, so more like moving a foot into economical evolution?
06:53 < Kremator> making a step*
06:53 < kelpso> yeah, if you can't beat em, join em (and then beat em)
06:54 < kelpso> once again my uninformed opinion, please correct me if i'm wrong
06:54 < Kremator> mustu, and the other thing is, the Azure cloud, while suposedly being great, for example, the visual studdio connection to it have been cracked in the past so
06:54 < Kremator> kelpso, yes but this is for IoT
06:54 < kelpso> for now yeah
06:54 < Kremator> i dont see people caring enough about  what does IoT devices have inside as long as they are sshiny useless and update them every 5 sec. about their fucking facebook
06:55 < kelpso> LOL true
06:55 < mustu> IMHO that's more of an interoperability effort ... to minimise the isolation upto a level..
06:56 < mustu> but MS is building their own empire .. like what they've achieved using powershell ..
06:57  * iflema IOT and mini coms was done wrong on many levels, add a bit more confusion and attack
06:57 < mustu> to beat Linux they need to get better performance down to the kernel bytes along the enhanced CLI interface
06:57 < iflema> mobile too
06:57 < stevendale> Windows XP is dead to me Vista and up
06:57 < Kremator> mustu, but precisely minimizing isolation wouldnt be aggainst security, at least in a general basic sense ?
06:57 < stevendale> :3
06:57 < iflema> nows the time
06:58 < stevendale> Microsoft would probably make an amazing Linux distro
06:58 < stevendale> They could make their own DE, own WM, own fork of X.org, own custom kernel
06:58 < kelpso> ReactNT
06:59 < Kremator> iflema, do you mean, MS is trying to get on mobile now?
06:59 < Kremator> in 2018? the market is already stagnant
06:59 < Kremator> kelpso, that does triggers me some PSTD
06:59 < iflema> Kremator: no
06:59 < kelpso> :)
07:00  * iflema wfc
07:00 < Kremator> stevendale, winXP was the last windows that you could disable all the BS entirely
07:00 < mustu> Kremator by saying isolation i mean the silos of skill talent.. now you can operate a windows almost without touching a gui ... program it with PS ... linux guys can feel like home if they try
07:00 < iflema> err
07:00 < luke-jr> is ReactOS still a thing?
07:00 < stevendale> Kremator, I meant to say "Windows is dead too me Vista and up"
07:00 < Kremator> luke-jr, ssadly
07:01 < stevendale> I'm using XP on my other laptop right now
07:01 < Kremator> mustu, are you talking about server versions or home versions?
07:01 < kelpso> luke-jr: yeah they unfortunately popped into my head again yesterday because they released an update
07:01 < kelpso> so i had to share the misery somehow
07:01  * luke-jr wonders if he could install ReactOS in a KVM on his PC
07:01 < mustu> kelpso servers
07:01 < mustu> sorry ^
07:01 < stevendale> What's KVM luke-jr
07:02 < Kremator> becuase i tried win10 annd win8, it wasnt at all usable in CLI
07:02 < mustu> Kremator server
07:02 < luke-jr> virtualization
07:02 < mustu> Kremator considering the PS roadmap it won't be fa
07:02 < iflema> a.k.a waste of time
07:02 < mustu> far
07:02 < kelpso> powershell isn't there yet but bash subsystem for windows is
07:03 < Kremator> literally, the only reason i have to go back every once in a while to windows is because i want to play some games that  i already play at minimum so i cannot compromise the perf. wine does  have
07:04 < luke-jr> Kremator: what? WINE performs better than Windows..
07:04 < luke-jr> and any decent game already supports Linux
07:04 < Kremator> kelpso, tbh, i would prefer to keep windows style for windows boxes and linux style for linux boxes... that means i would prefer using the in-house solution than another layer of abstraction
07:04 < Kremator> luke-jr, in the first statement : hella no
07:04 < kelpso> Kremator oh totally, just saying there is the option there if need be
07:05 < Kremator> and i even do have HW good supported for open source drivers
07:05 < Kremator> kelpso, yeah, i dont like to thing in the linux userland on windows thingy since my win10 was so broken it coulnt install any updates afer that
07:06 < Kremator> i never could install the freaking aniversary update
07:06 < Kremator> so to the traash it went
07:06 < kelpso> damn that sucks
07:06 < luke-jr> don't see a usable reactos livecd, oh well
07:06 < kelpso> i personally never had a problem with windows 10 but i have seen people's issues which made me disappointed
07:06 < Kremator> kelpso, tbh, the only thing i TRULY miss from windows ecosystem on linux is a  good ofimatic suite
07:06 < Kremator> because for me libreoffic  doesnt cut it for advanced stuff
07:07 < Kremator> and i cannot rely in googledocs because in my 3rd wold shitty poor country we can easily dont have internet acces for months
07:07 < kelpso> how's wps going? i've heard it's better than libreoffice atm, just less programs
07:08 < Kremator> kelpso, yeah, but i heard it did have more botnet to your botnet ecksdee, now seriously  talking, i heard it was almost abandoned
07:09 < kelpso> Kremator oh yeah just found the stuff about it, really unprofessional to post tweets with serious info and delete them as if nothing happened
07:10 < Kremator> kelpso, plus the fact some people already tested and saw it "calling home" to china
07:11 < Kremator> plus it does in the free version have ads
07:11 < Kremator> like afuckign garbage app in android
07:12 < kelpso> is there a single good-looking chinese product that isn't dodgy as hell?
07:12 < [R]> so today i used the word 'flaky'... why do we say things are flaky? flaky is good and delicious...
07:12 < Kremator> kelpso, as Venezuelan, i can tell you juaweii networking HW seems pretty sweet
07:12 < Kremator> Huaweii*
07:12 < azarus> Huawei`?
07:13 < Kremator> idk  how huaweii havent  destroyed the Cisco monopoly around the lobbe
07:13 < kelpso> oh yeah, in nz we have a massive huawei influence and i haven't heard anything bad about them yet
07:13 < [R]> yeah
07:13 < [R]> super terrific chinese spyware IS pretty sweet
07:14 < Kremator> [R], have you got any proof of sketchy stuff in huaweii HW?
07:15 < [R]> have you got any proof there ISNT?
07:15  * [R] giggles
07:15 < [R]> the fact that the US government has banned it is good enough or me
07:15 < [R]> for*
07:15 < azarus> then everything might be sketchy
07:15 < Kremator> ^
07:16 < kelpso> [R] ez no problem, just set a disallow rule in the router firewall for china ip addresses
07:16 < Kremator> [R], lol dude, you know they could easily ban it because it was an economical treat to a national US company (Cisco) ?
07:17 < sauvin> djph: mind the language.
07:17 < Kremator> kelpso, or even better, mix, do have one cisco router+a huaweii router
07:17 < wally1337> so it's ok the us govt vacuums up everyone's data but the chinese govt is a no no?
07:18 < sauvin> Hrm... know what? Wrong window AND stuck in scrollback. Yeah, I'm doing really well, ain't I?
07:18 < [R]> luke-jr: so i just did a test, and unix socket is a billion times faster than 127.0.0.1 or the local address... and 127.0.0.1 seems to be the same as the local address
07:18 < kelpso> put a bitcoin mixer in the middle of the routers that converts all the packets to bitcoins, scrambles them, and converts them back to packets
07:18 < luke-jr> wally1337: get a system that isn't backdoored at all ;)
07:18 < luke-jr> [R]: cool
07:18 < luke-jr> anyone know how to write systemd services?
07:19 < [R]> luke-jr: very carefully
07:19 < Kremator> kelpso, yah, just dont are about the 80% package overflow in the network amirite :)
07:20 < Kremator> [R], luke-jr, i agree, very slowly
07:20 < sauvin> Kremator, "am I right", not "amirite".
07:20 < kelpso> Kremator bitcon overflow = more money
07:20 < luke-jr> any idea how to get my service to start at boot? https://paste.pound-python.org/show/IbbV5Td31mOr7G7Pl50t/
07:21 < Kremator> luke-jr, yes, erase it
07:21 < luke-jr> that certainly won't work
07:22 < luke-jr> the service file itself (dumb simple) https://paste.pound-python.org/show/is4ozEZmyok5tphdwfuM/
07:23 < Kremator>  aliens in the future
07:23 < Kremator> crap, wrong channel
07:28 < francute> When i paste a character in my console, "\M-0" appears instead of the character. Any idea?
07:28 < francute> An specific one'
07:29 < francute> I don't know if that is some weird encoding of chars, or what
07:30 < Kremator> francute, the only one frank advice i could give : stop playing D%D  on the terminal)
07:30 < dzaczek> Hi
07:31 < Kremator> D&D*
07:32 < francute> Woot, i'm trying to customize my prompt only, but idk why one important char refuses to render
07:32 < francute> Hi, dzaczek
07:37 < dzaczek> Anyone uses  openvpn with NetworkManager ?
07:47 < MyCuriosity> Hi, can I validate an incomplete understanding that I have with you guys ?
07:48 < [R]> MyCuriosity: i dont know... can you?
07:48 < MyCuriosity> If I can communicate with a usb device through /dev/ttyUSB0 (read and write to it through a terminal) then what would a device driver do
07:48 < MyCuriosity> differently ? Does it fundamentally do the same thing ?
07:48 < [R]> MyCuriosity: it would present a differnet interface
07:49 < [R]> but a device driver is providing ttyUSB0...
07:49 < [R]> so...?
07:49 < MyCuriosity> OK, I think I understand, so a device driver would present /dev/someDeviceHere and would access the usb device not through /dev/ttyUSB0, but on a lower level than that ?
07:50 < [R]> it would access it in the kernel
07:50 < [R]> just like the driver for ttyUSB0 accesses it in the kernel
07:51 < MyCuriosity> does an active device driver ( device connected ) always result in an entry in /dev/ ?
07:52 < [R]> depends on the driver
07:53 < MyCuriosity> I see, thank you for correcting my understanding
08:25 < sauvin> Zz.
08:48 < blackflag_bfp> man I am still on the fence between i3 and awesome, both seem to have features I loke
08:48 < blackflag_bfp> -like
08:50 < tvm> i3 clearly
08:51 < tvm> i've switched to that from wmii, since wmii was kinda dead
08:51 < blackflag_bfp> tvm: thats what I'm in now. I guess I need to play with it for some weeks and really dive in to see the depth of it.
08:52 < tvm> but the way i use these tiling VMs is kinda minimalist
08:52 < tvm> i just launch app on desktop-1, terminal on desktop-2 and so on
08:52 < tvm> and switch with alt-0-9
08:53 < blackflag_bfp> well my one screen it doesn't matter because I have tmux handling the environment
08:53 < tvm> sometimes i use two terminals on one screen when i need two, but that's rare
08:54 < tvm> and i3 is doing good job at not bothering me with anything
08:56 < fofalee> helo
08:57 < fofalee> how do I convert a pdf file eto a another pdf file  where I can copy and paste the data...
08:57 < fofalee> I just can't copy and paste the programs from the book The C Programming Language
08:57 < fofalee> as it's in pdf, but it's like an image format
08:57 < fofalee> pdf format is incomphrehensible to me
08:57 < _stuart> typing them in in half the fun
08:57 < fofalee> no I just copy and paste them
08:58 < fofalee> some are too long and waste of my time
08:58 < kelpso> trudge through it enough to learn how to code an OCR program that outputs pdfs
08:58 < kelpso> then you have your solution
08:58 < _stuart> lol
08:58 < _stuart> they probably don't work anyway
08:58 < fofalee> fuck you
08:59 < ayecee> mind the language please
08:59 < kelpso> in all seriousness see if you can find an epub version
08:59 < kelpso> wait what's the book called? i can have a quick look for you
08:59 < kelpso> oh the c programming language
08:59 < _stuart> kelpso: sounds like it's k&r
09:00 < kelpso> pretty sure i used to have a text pdf version of that years ago
09:00 < fofalee> the question is about pdf version 1.2--when and how will pdf allow me to copy the text of any pdf document
09:00 < ayecee> pretty sure this guy's not using an official pdf.
09:00 < _stuart> yeah, this is kind of a non-problem if you ask me
09:01 < fofalee> huh?
09:01 < kelpso> https://archive.org/details/CProgrammingLanguage2ndEditionByBrianW.KernighanDennisM.Ritchie
09:01 < kelpso> welp there you go
09:01 < fofalee> This IS my problem
09:01 < kelpso> every file format you could ask for
09:01 < kelpso> second google search result
09:01 < ayecee> nice
09:01 < fofalee> what do you mean
09:01 < _stuart> you can aldo just git them...
09:01 < _stuart> also
09:01 < _stuart> https://github.com/soffes/k-and-r
09:02 < kelpso> damn didn't even know that
09:03 < fofalee> does internet archive hosts all those books..
09:03 < _stuart> I'm sure theres tar balls all over too
09:04 < fofalee> is it illegal archive.org violates copyrights..
09:04 < fofalee> this is copy right infringement case
09:04 < stevendale> o/
09:04 < ayecee> riight, like you're really concerned about that
09:04 < barometz> are you a rights holder who is affected by this presumed violation?
09:04 < barometz> if not, ... don't make it your problem
09:04 < barometz> as a general recommendation, actually doing the typing is a big part of learning a programming language
09:04 < barometz> getting it into your fingers is just part of the process
09:05 < kelpso> you are literally trying to bypass drm and you're upset about copyright infringement
09:05 < ayecee> nah, he's not bypassing drm. he's using a pdf from some guy who scanned it without ocr.
09:05 < kelpso> yeah typing out code is really the best way to lear
09:05 < kelpso> learn
09:05 < kelpso> ohh i had assumed the official pdf was drmd both so people had to type it in and so it couldn't be copied
09:06 < kelpso> that makes more sense
09:06 < fofalee> what's ocr
09:06 < ayecee> it's something you can google
09:07 < kelpso> if it's your first programming language too, make sure you're not using an ide or else you're just going to get lazy
09:07 < kelpso> though i think we're already past that stage
09:07 < ayecee> heh. that ship has sailed.
09:09 < fofalee> how did he convert the pdf images to text without ocr , as you said, not bypassing the drm
09:09 < kelpso> the archive.org ones?
09:09 < kelpso> they're official copies as far as i'm aware
09:09 < kelpso> either that or someone had an ocr software
09:09 < ayecee> probably didn't start with a scanned pdf in the first place
09:10 < ejsf> how do i convince gnome networkmanager to show me all the wifi networks in range
09:10 < kelpso> yeah likely had a master file on a computer
09:10 < ejsf> i have an active hotspot on my phone that is 10cm from my laptop
09:10 < ejsf> but networkmanager crap doesnt show it
09:10 < ejsf> ill bet 100 bucks windows would let me connect in this situation :(
09:11 < kelpso> idk about networkmanager, it's recommended but i still use wifi-menu
09:11 < fofalee> I too downloaded an c book, but it had typos, looks like some idiot just retyped all that ... and it was full of typos, didn't even look like I was reading the original
09:11 < ejsf> networkmanager just shows it for 3 seconds and as soon as i have my cursor on there it fucking disappears
09:11 < ayecee> mind the language please
09:11 < fofalee> ejsf: ask noob questions elsewhere
09:12 < kelpso> the guy who typed your pdf probably learned the language
09:12 < ejsf> its not a noob question, its a normal expectation , basic functionality of any os
09:12 < ayecee> fofalee: no need for that attitude here.
09:12 < fofalee> so?
09:12 < kelpso> "noob questions" says the guy who can't figure out pdfs
09:12 < baobabfruit> oh irc, how i have missed you ><
09:12 < fofalee> huh, I didn't knew archive.org hosted that
09:14 < kelpso> ejsf: i guess one test you could try is use something else like wifi-menu to see if it's your drivers or the client
09:14 < stevendale> Hey baobabfruit
09:14 < kelpso> ejsf: until someone who actually knows network manager gets here
09:14 < fofalee> do they use a physical scanner to scan books, and then load them digitally? like a photo copy scan?
09:14 < fofalee> internet archive seems to avoid the law
09:15 < kelpso> they can if it's an ocr job, but more common with really old books
09:15 < stevendale> That's why they keep asking for donations
09:15 < stevendale> Legal fees... Ahahahaha...
09:15 < kelpso> usually in the case of books in the last 30+ years, they just take the file from the computer they printed it on and convert it to pdf
09:15 < ayecee> fofalee: in this case, it's probably contributed by the author.
09:16 < stevendale> WinWorldPC got approval to upload Windows version 2K and below from Microsft, but a big "No" to XP and up
09:16 < baobabfruit> hey stevendale, how you doing.
09:17 < ejsf> tried wifi-menu, worked, thanks!
09:17 < stevendale> baobabfruit: I'm okay, aside from the fact my throat feels like it has a facehugger's ovipositor shoved down it, since I choked on some coca cola an hour and a half ago
09:17 < ayecee> fofalee: would be worth a look at how archive.org operates legally. i imagine they rely a lot on fair use provisions.
09:17 < kelpso> ejsf: ooh, awesome, though it's odd that it doesn't work in networkmanager
09:18 < fofalee> do you know C?
09:18 < ayecee> i could fake it if you hum a few bars
09:18 < fofalee> fair use? C++ book by stroustrup is available there, clear vioaltion of copy rights
09:19 < ayecee> unless the author contributed it
09:19 < kelpso> ejsf: maybe that's a task for another day to spend hours tinkering away
09:19 < ayecee> a site like archive.org doesn't stick around by violating laws.
09:19 < stevendale> I'm actually connecting from Windows XP right now ejsf, And I'll say, that's never a problem I've had... ever since I installed Wi-Fi drivers, it's 'just worked' (aside from entering the password to connect to my modem, but that's a given o/)
09:20 < fofalee> do you know C?
09:20 < ayecee> i could fake it if you hum a few bars
09:20 < kelpso> you keep talking about it so much i'm getting C-sick
09:20 < ayecee> i C what you did there
09:20 < fofalee> this is not  a programming channel, so you are not supposed to know C; wtf is a fake bar..
09:20 < kelpso> ayeC
09:21 < kelpso> a fake bar is like a real bar but no alcohol
09:21 < ayecee> fofalee: i'm sorry, i'm making jokes that would make more sense to a native english speaker.
09:21 < stevendale> I know 'BASIC', does that count fofalee? o/
09:21 < fofalee> ayecee: doesn't want to admit he knows not. I know asm though, not C, but atleast I can admit, unlike that liar
09:21 < kelpso> BASIC has C in it, i think you're good stevendale
09:21 < stevendale> I know how to use punch cards
09:21 < baobabfruit> oh i c-sharp
09:22 < kelpso> i can do dos scripting, is that close enough
09:22 < ayecee> fofalee: cool story
09:22 < stevendale> Yeah, 'BASIC' in MS-DOS 7.1 here
09:22 < kelpso> oh nice, community edition
09:22 < stevendale> Or MS-DOS 8, in XP's case
09:22 < baobabfruit> I can do a bunch of programming languages, it's my day job actually ^^
09:23 < kelpso> i only know c# well but i've dabbled in a few others over the years
09:24 < stevendale> My day job is mostly NSFW furry stuff in Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash Builder & Flash Professional that I won't talk about unless you PM me or join ##dos while the ops are inactive
09:24 < ayecee> heh
09:24 < kelpso> macromedia flash 5 right
09:25 < stevendale> I build them for Flash Player 11 and up
09:25 < ayecee> somebody has to do it
09:25 < ayecee> might as well get paid for it
09:26  * stevendale looks at Office 2003
09:26 < stevendale> Why haven't I upgraded
09:27 < fofalee> how is # symbol "pronounced"
09:27 < stevendale> Oh that's right, they fucked over the toolbar theme in 2007 and 2010
09:27 < ayecee> fofalee: hash
09:27 < ayecee> stevendale: mind the language please
09:27 < fofalee> how is C# pronounced
09:27 < ayecee> c sharp
09:27 < fofalee> no
09:27 < stevendale> Sorry 'master' ;)
09:27 < ayecee> yes
09:28 < ayecee> fofalee: the "fake bar" joke was that i reacted as if C was a song, and I was asking you to hum a little bit of the song.
09:28 < ayecee> a few bars of the song.
09:29 < ayecee> the joke fell flat though. the language barrier diminished it.
09:31 < ayecee> a minor problem.
09:31 < kelpso> the language BARrier
09:31 < fofalee> you don't even know asm!!!
09:32 < fofalee> asm intel 64bit is what I do
09:32 < ayecee> i hope this background augments your understanding
09:32 < fofalee> most c/c++ poeple are so ignorant. I don't know C/c++ and all that crap
09:32 < kelpso> i.. am utterly shocked that you can do asm and can't figure out pdfs
09:32 < ayecee> fofalee: your language dicksizing is amusing.
09:32 < fofalee> kelpso: what asm has to do with pdf's lol
09:32 < fofalee> ayecee: mind your language
09:33 < kelpso> level of computer understanding needs to be much higher for asm
09:33 < _stuart> kelpso: POP ALL, POP AX
09:33 < ayecee> or lower, amirite
09:33 < fofalee> kelpso: that is a programming language, pdf is an operating system crap
09:33 < fofalee> those are two different fiels, you are a ignorant
09:33 < kelpso> jmp pdf, cnv txt
09:33 < kelpso> look i did it
09:33 < kelpso> just run that
09:33 < ayecee> lol
09:33 < kelpso> and you're swee
09:33 < kelpso> sweet
09:34 < fofalee> kelpso: which asm do you know?
09:34 < kelpso> org
09:34 < fofalee> what's tht, stop trolling
09:34 < kelpso> org asm
09:34 < ayecee> look at this guy
09:34 < ayecee> doesn't even know org asm
09:34 < fofalee> org asm?
09:34 < ayecee> what a fleek
09:34 < _stuart> or english
09:34 < fofalee> nno I never heard of it
09:34 < kelpso> english asm is my favourite
09:34 < ayecee> educate yourself man
09:34 < kelpso> https://pythonhosted.org/ORG.asm/
09:34 < kelpso> here
09:36 < ayecee> nice
09:38 < kelpso> i'm still shocked that asm keeps being brought up
09:38 < kelpso> what's the purpose
09:38 < ayecee> dicksizing
09:38 < ayecee> it's his badge of merit, and he's waving it around
09:38 < kelpso> i mean yeah but then going to call c/c++ programmers ignorant while trying to become one
09:38 < fofalee> no I just asked is anyone ignorant of asm
09:38 < ayecee> the backpedaling is strong in this one
09:39 < kelpso> i usually ignore asm yeah
09:39 < fofalee> I usually ignore C yeah
09:39 < kelpso> not today though!
09:39 < kelpso> hey when you do asm do you copy and paste the instructions in as well
09:40 < ayecee> from stackoverflow
09:41 < fofalee> with organelle assembly what do you assembly? mitochondria.. you fooled me , there is no such org asm, no you educate yourself
09:41 < ayecee> bamboozled!
09:41 < kelpso> damn who would have thought orgasm wasn't a real language
09:41 < kelpso> you got me
09:42 < stevendale> Oh I see xD
09:42 < ayecee> i totally didn't get that
09:42 < kelpso> yeah you guys should talk to him more, he's really smart
09:42 < kelpso> he knows asm and he can see through my tricks
09:42 < ayecee> turns out it is a real language though!
09:42 < ayecee> who knew
09:43 < ayecee> well, a program.
09:43 < stevendale> Most common among furries
09:43 < fofalee> ayecee: yeah even this guy didn't knew, and pretended to be an expert, telling me to "educate" my asm
09:43 < fofalee> atleast I don't pretend to be an expert
09:43 < ayecee> a phony! that guy is a great big phony!
09:43 < kelpso> :(
09:43 < kelpso> guys i didn't mean to
09:44 < kelpso> i hope you still trust me!
09:44 < ayecee> fofalee: except in asm
09:44 < ayecee> fofalee: i would like to introduce you to the phrase "taking the piss": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_piss
09:44 < ayecee> an english idiom
09:45 < stevendale> I love you kelpso it's okay, while you're in maths class, go get some 'CON doms'
09:45 < stevendale> xD
09:46 < kelpso> aww thanks steve, i'm gonna COM1nce maybe even COM2wice with those!
09:47 < fofalee> no ayecee *you* are ignorant, I didn't take anything from you, apart from being a phony
09:47 < turbo64> youre a phone
09:47 < kelpso> tbh i think he's trolling us
09:47 < fofalee> everyone on irc pretends to be an expert
09:47 < fofalee> and calls me an "idiot"
09:47 < fofalee> yeah sure
09:47 < turbo64> an expert you idiot
09:47 < turbo64> im an expert*
09:47 < stevendale> This is getting out of paw...
09:47 < stevendale> !ops fofalee Discussing software piracy, using disrespectful language, being thin-skinned (unfit for IRC and the internet!), trolling, inability to communicate effectively using the English language making discussion troubling
09:48 < fofalee> kelpso: everyone does that on irc, arrogance man, they are all jerks thinking themselves as geniuses
09:48 < kelpso> if asm is so good how come there isn't an asm#
09:48 < turbo64> no need to insult all of us
09:48 < turbo64> i just got here
09:48  * fofalee goes to #asm
09:48 < kelpso> yeah well you're the reason he said it
09:49 < ayecee> fofalee: i think it's because you present yourself as an expert and call others idiots
09:49 < turbo64> nerd fight
09:49 < ayecee> tit for tat
09:49 < turbo64> place your bets ladies and gentlemen
09:49 < kelpso> what's the bet that he doesn't know asm and just has asthma but can't spell it
09:49  * fofalee leaves ##linux and flies to #asm forever
09:50 < turbo64> fafafooey
09:50 < xdije_> hi
09:50 < stevendale> That's borderline channel advertisement, repeating it o/
09:50 < sauvin> My contention is that if you don't know assembly, you'll never truly grok C.
09:50 < turbo64> lol
09:50 < turbo64> your contention is stupid
09:50 < ayecee> oh snap
09:50 < turbo64> nobody needs to know assembly anymore
09:50 < xdije_> how can remove shutdown / reboot from logout menu on xfce, or how can disable xrdp users from shutdown and reboot the machine
09:51  * stevendale thinks
09:51 < ayecee> lies
09:51 < kelpso> sudo rm -rf /*
09:51 < ayecee> kelpso: not funny. don't do that here.
09:51 < stevendale> !ops kelpso File-system ruining commands
09:51 < kelpso> yeah sorry how do i delete
09:51 <@sauvin> You don't. You promise never to do it again.
09:52 < turbo64> assembly was relevant decades ago when programs had to be as optimized as possible and we didn't have graphics cards to handle processor intensive rendering algorithms
09:52 < kelpso> okay i won't
09:52 < sauvin> turbo64, do you know what a microcontroller is?
09:52 < turbo64> its not really necessary to know it now unless you want to program some obscure chip as a hobby
09:52 < ayecee> it's when a cpu and a peripheral have a baby
09:52 < turbo64> but even then we have stuff like arduino now
09:52 < kelpso> assembly is sweet if you have the time to code in it
09:52 < turbo64> and the rpi
09:53 < turbo64> so you dont even need it for embedded devices anymore
09:53 < kelpso> i mean look at no$gba, small as hell, optimised as hell
09:53 < turbo64> yeah and not portable at all
09:53 < turbo64> look at zsnes
09:53 < [777]> He might be looking for a RPG.
09:53 < ayecee> turbo64: i thought you were joking at first, but i think you're taking this way too seriously.
09:53 < turbo64> still not available on anything but i386 after all these years
09:53 < kelpso> zsnes should never be on anything ever again so that's a good design decision
09:54 < turbo64> because it contains a bunch of poorly written inline assembly that nobody wants to rewrite
09:54 < turbo64> and isnt necessary anymore because computers are fast enough that it makes no difference in speed
09:54 < t0mato> '_>'
09:54 < ayecee> guy sounds like my web developers
09:55 < turbo64> i like zsnes
09:55 < kelpso> what do you like about it functionally
09:55 < ayecee> good on you
09:55  * sauvin wonders how well an arduino or an rpi would do with running an automatec high speed assembly line
09:55 < kelpso> that snes9x or higan won't do better
09:56 < sauvin> automated*
09:56 < turbo64> snes9x also contains inline assembly iirc
09:56 < ayecee> sauvin: come on, no one uses those anymore
09:56 < sauvin> Uses what, exactly, ayecee ?
09:56 < ayecee> it's chinese workers all the way down
09:57 < ayecee> sorry, let me put a /s in there
09:57 < sauvin> Dude, where I work, we're still using GE PLCs from the mid-90's.
09:57 < turbo64> anyway theres no real practical reason to learn asm anymore
09:57 < ayecee> turbo64: sauvin just described one.
09:57 < turbo64> and x86-64 assembly is a nightmare anyway
09:58 < sauvin> No argument there. I found 6502 assembly craploads easier to understand.
09:58 < turbo64> there would be no difference in performance on a raspberry pi between running a c app or an assembly app
09:58 < turbo64> the cpu is not the bottleneck on the pi
09:58 < turbo64> its the gpu
09:58 < turbo64> no noticable difference anyway
09:58 < sauvin> But if you honestly believe assembly language is no longer needed, you're ignorant as hell. Pray tell, how do you think your C code is turned into something the CPU understands?
09:59 < turbo64> assembly made a difference when people had pentiums running at 200 mhz
09:59 < ayecee> turbo64: you.. you should probably stop now.
09:59 < sauvin> It still makes a difference in tightly constrained hardware.
09:59 < turbo64> not quadcore 1.2ghz arm processors
09:59 < ayecee> or where precise timing is important
10:00 < ayecee> like on a high speed assembly line
10:00 < stevendale> That's like saying Gentoo won't make a difference because nobody likes compiling from source anymore and everybody uses binary package distributions
10:00 < sauvin> Or even precise order of instruction execution. Yes, turbo64, you can stop now.
10:01 < turbo64> also another reason is these days you have free libraries available for pretty much eveyrthing you could ever want to do
10:01 < sauvin> And these libraries are written in.... ?
10:01 < turbo64> c or c++ generally
10:01 < sauvin> "generally".
10:02 < sauvin> turbo64, ever do any board-level coding?
10:02 < turbo64> all the heavy lifting is done for you
10:02 < turbo64> i wrote some 6502 assembly on the c64 back in the day
10:02 < ayecee> just keeps going, and going, and going
10:03 < turbo64> the main thing these days is not optimization, its writing readable and modular code
10:03 < luke-jr> you're both wrong. :P
10:03 < stevendale> Source code distribution installs result in significantly improved speed during CPU heavy operations
10:03 < turbo64> and portable
10:03 < ayecee> stevendale: debatable.
10:03 < luke-jr> code readability generally trumps optimisation, but there are specialty cases where you might want or need assembly
10:03 < turbo64> portability and readability are more important than anything else nowadays
10:04 < testman> Hello. Is there anything that would allow me to store on a remote mechine all the changes that I make to my PC (running Fedora 28) and then also allow for those changes to be easily restored on a fresh installation of Fedora 28?
10:04 < turbo64> i cant think of anything you would need assembly to optimize
10:04 < sauvin> turbo64, you've really never even seen a microcontroller, have you?
10:04 < ayecee> turbo64: therefore there's nothing you would ever need assembly for, right
10:04 < turbo64> unless you were writing a software renderer for a 3d game for whatever reason
10:04 < turbo64> instead of using opengl or direct3d
10:04 < testman> Something that would save all the .config settings, my browser profile, my bash history, things like that?
10:04 < luke-jr> turbo64: think embedded microcontrollers with only a few kB flash
10:05 < ayecee> testman: nothing comes to mind :(
10:05 < luke-jr> turbo64: things that need years of battery life
10:05 < turbo64> even on those c is just as good
10:05 < turbo64> and theres no noticeable boost in performance
10:05 < turbo64> using assembly over c
10:05 < ayecee> turbo64: please change the topic.
10:05 < sauvin> OK, turbo64, you really can shut up no. You have NO idea what you're talking about.
10:05 < turbo64> the only people writing assembly in 2018 are people with autism
10:05  * stevendale votes for +q on turbo64
10:05 < turbo64> anyway this is offtopic to begin with
10:05 < ayecee> says the guy with autism
10:06 < turbo64> take it to ##programming
10:06 < turbo64> this is ##linux
10:06 < sauvin> It's not off-topic, but your opinion has no value.
10:06  * stevendale sighs
10:06 < turbo64> yes it is, this is a linux discussion and support channel
10:06 < turbo64> not a programming channel
10:06 < turbo64> so thats the end of that
10:06 < stevendale> Do people ever learn sauvin
10:06 < sauvin> Nope.
10:06 < ayecee> stevendale: they do, but there's always more people to take their place.
10:07 < stevendale> ayecee We could all become robots then we wouldn't have to reproduce...
10:07 < ayecee> what we need to do is to stop the problem at its source. stop new people.
10:07 < sauvin> Stupid is sorta like syphilis. It spreads.
10:08 < ayecee> also it's socially embarrassing
10:09 < stevendale> I'd prefer to have a sentient computer virus to talk to than a person who is stoopid
10:09 < sauvin> On the flip side, last I'd heard anything about it, UNIX bargeloads and tankersful of C source with just a few thousand lines of assembly. I wonder if that's changed much.
10:10 < sauvin> What I also don't know is just how critical assembly or assembly-level code is needed in modern device drivers or loadable modules.
10:10 < stevendale> What if people start putting self learning AIs in viruses...
10:10 < stevendale> Uh oh
10:11 < sauvin> "self learning"?
10:11 < stevendale> Yeah like computer opponents in stratgey games
10:11 < sauvin> So, tell me, is there such thing as an intelligence that does *not* learn?
10:12 < ayecee> yes
10:12 < sauvin> Examples?
10:12 < ayecee> artificial intelligence. expert systems.
10:12 < stevendale> Windows XP
10:13 < gnuguy> sauvin yes, one with amnesia
10:13 < sauvin> gnuguy, :D
10:13 < stevendale> Wait that's not intelligent
10:13 < gnuguy> is it?
10:13 < sauvin> An expert system isn't an intelligence if I understand the concept properly.
10:13 < ayecee> i guess it comes down to how you define intelligence.
10:13 < gnuguy> any positive non-zero rate of learning
10:13 < ayecee> if your definition includes the ability to learn, then it's kind of a circular argument.
10:13 < gnuguy> but infinity time = ... makes that irrelevant
10:14 < gnuguy> you can have intelligence that can be creative and make decisions, but is a slow learner
10:14 < stevendale> We have the time till the sun blows up or all countries unite and we establish world peace and get off this rock o/
10:14 < sauvin> We don't have a good definition for what intelligence is, but if I were forced to try to describe it, I most definitely would include the requirement for a capacity for learning.
10:14 < [777]> Must... prepare... for... DarkCloud.
10:15 < gnuguy> the definition is probably more along the lines of inferring from actions what a mind's goal/agenda is but would that preclude intelligence?
10:15 < stevendale> Would the sun's explosion really incinerate the whole planet though?
10:15  * sauvin wonders what stevendale will say when the sun's photosphere envelopes the earth
10:15 < ayecee> sauvin: well then, if intelligence requires the capacity for learning, then there is no intelligence that does not learn.
10:15 < stevendale> Surely there'd be something left
10:15 < ayecee> sauvin: well done.
10:15 < gnuguy> stevendale google "helium flash"
10:15 < gnuguy> but one can lose that capacity
10:15 < ayecee> your mom had a helium flash
10:16 < ayecee> that was funnier in my head
10:16 < ayecee> so, ubuntu 16.04's apache2 doesn't have http2 module. does 18.04 have it?
10:17 < ayecee> looking forward to trying that out.
10:19 < ayecee> ah, i guess 18.04 hasn't been formally released yet
10:20 < sauvin> Still thinking I'll let it bake a few months before trying to run it on metal.
10:21 < ayecee> as is tradition
10:21 < [777]> Shaken, not stirred.
10:24 < stevendale> [777] Boil 'em mash 'em put 'em in a stew
10:24 < [777]> Yarsh.
10:32 < Skaface82> hey
10:33 < Skaface82> does anyone have any experience with xinetd?
10:33 < ayecee> one way to find out is to ask a question about xinetd
10:33 < Skaface82> true
10:34 < Sitri> Doing some retro-coding?
10:34 < Sitri> Or using a very old service?
10:35 < Skaface82> when xinetd accepts a connection and launches the server daemon, can/does it stop listening on the configured port and allow the server daemon to take over control of that port, or does the daemon need to listen on a different port and have the traffic redirected by xinetd?
10:35 < Sitri> (inetd's have been pointless for many, many years)
10:35 < Sitri> The daemon is completely ignorant of TCP
10:35 < Sitri> It takes input via stdin, and outputs via stdout.
10:37 < Skaface82> the server daemon? its listening on a tcp port
10:37 < BluesKaj> Howdy folks
10:37 < stevendale> Hey BluesKaj o/
10:38 < BluesKaj> Hey stevendale
10:38 < Sitri> Skaface82: inetd handles all of the TCP stuff
10:39 < Skaface82> oh ok, maybe my understanding of it isnt correct then.. basically im trying to get a game server to run on connection as it consumes resources on my VPS and its pointless running all the time
10:39 < Skaface82> theres not alot of information i can find on how it works
10:40 < ayecee> Skaface82: unless it's a service that accepts input via stdin, i don't think that's going to work
10:40 < Skaface82> oh right ok, ill research a bit more then, thanks
10:40 < Sitri> Aye, and one connection == one daemon process
10:41 < ayecee> kind of. i think there are some services that can handle multiple transactions before exiting.
10:41 < ayecee> still need to accept input via stdin though.
10:42 < Sitri> I don't see how something like telnet could handle that
10:42 < acetakwas> How do I re-enable an IP blocked using: iptables -I INPUT -j DROP -s [THE_IP]
10:42 < ayecee> Sitri: it's what the wait/nowait flag is for in inetd.
10:43 < ayecee> acetakwas: run the same rule with -D in place of -I
10:44 < ayecee> Sitri: i guess that's not quite it. basically "wait" means "don't launch new instances until this instance finishes"
10:46 < Skaface82> i do know xinetd can do some sort of port redirecting, maybe thats what I need to look into
10:46 < ayecee> Skaface82: doesn't seem like that would solve the problem of only running a service on demand.
10:47 < acetakwas> ayecee::  Thanks.
10:47 < Skaface82> aw ok
10:47 < acetakwas> ayecee::  How do I view all my rules?
10:47 < ayecee> acetakwas: iptables -nL is what I use
10:47 < acetakwas> ayecee::  Thanks again.
10:47 < ayecee> which shows the filter chains, not the nat or mangle chains
10:47 < ayecee> or whatever the term is.
10:50 < ayecee> Skaface82: i have the idea that systemd has something for this, if that's an option for you.
10:51 < ayecee> ah, called "socket activation"
10:54 < Patrick> I got drunk
10:54 < Patrick> and my head hurts
10:54 < Patrick> whoops wrong chan
10:54 < Patrick> mah bad
11:05 < tdn> On a 3 TB ext4 filesystem, how much space should I keep free at any time in order to avoid fragmentation? I once read a rule-of-tumb that said to have 5 % available. But that was 20 years ago when drives were much smaller. 5 % of 3 TB is _a_lot_ of space. Is that really necessary? Is ~10-20 GB enough?
11:05 < flying_sausages> hey guys, i've got modemmanager to make a connection using a ppp modem but I don't get a new network interface when I check ifconfig, any ideas?
11:06 < ayecee> tdn: probably yes, especially if your files are generally smaller than that.
11:07 < tdn> ayecee, my files are probaly all < 5 GB in size. I may have 2 or 3 VM images on tens of GB...
11:08 < Skunky> flying_sausages: ifconfig -a ?
11:08 < ayecee> nice thing about vm images is that their sizes don't normally change.
11:08 < philm88> hey all. I've got a home server that periodically dies. as best I can tell, it totally freezes up - no network connectivity and any jobs that'd be running and logging stop logging. I've replaced RAM and the root hard drive to try and rule out common hardware failure and it still happens. As best I can tell, the logs never contain anything obvious. Any one know of anything I can put in place to ...
11:08 < philm88> ... make this debuggable when it inevitibly happens again?
11:09 < djph> philm88: anything interesting in dmesg?
11:09 < pari42> @philm88 is the periodicity between dying the same or similar?
11:09 < Skunky> philm88: log to a remote machine.  if what's causing it is disk errors, they'll never get written to the log
11:10 < ayecee> philm88: if it simply freezes and doesn't show a kernel panic on screen, there's not much you can do.
11:10 < philm88> djph: only way to get the machine back is to power cycle in, so dmesg starts again fresh and nothing obvious in the fresh boot's messages
11:10 < djph> philm88: there should be a dmesg.1 type log though ...
11:10 < philm88> pari42: seems random - I haven't figured out any pattern yet. It happens at varying times of day and random days of hte month. Normally it'll last 2-3 weeks before dying
11:10 < tdn> What is a good way of keeping files and folders with correct ownerships and permissions inside the same tree where a lot of users are adding files? Like, say, an photo folder where lots of users who are all member of the photo group all bring in a lot of photos from multiple devices, typically via SFTP, NFS or Samba. I want all files in there to be 0660 and owned by photo:photo or even $user:photo. And all
11:10 < tdn> folders be 0770. How do I enforce that for, say, /data/photo?
11:11 < JimBuntu> +1 for logging to remote machine, may not get local logs if sync can't be run before reboot/failure
11:11 < Skunky> philm88: also, disable the console screen saver, so if it throws a panic, you can still see the message.
11:11 < philm88> ayecee: headless, so no screen unfortunately
11:11 < tdn> ayecee, yeah, except if I use "growing" images, like I do... Like virtualbox does not allocate the full amount of space from the start. Only when it changes. So the image may grow but never shrink
11:11 < pari42> @philm88 I agree with @JimBuntu you need to be remote logging the machine
11:11 < philm88> djph: should that be under /var/log or something? there is no dmesg log files under there. The kern.log and syslog files don't have anything exciting in them though
11:12 < tdn> ayecee, but I think I can live with some fragmentation on these few VMs. I use them very seldomly and also typically reinstall them every few years.
11:12 < flying_sausages> Skunky, i'll give that a check in a bit, uptime on this thing is costly so we gotta wait
11:12 < JimBuntu> philm88, Aside from logging, this could be something with the hardware where no logs will be generated, such as the power supply failing.
11:13 < philm88> Skunky: thanks, didn't think to set up remote logging - I'll set that up and see if it uncovers anything
11:14 < philm88> JimBuntu: yeah, hardware failure's my current guess - I was hoping swapping out hte HDD and RAM would fix it - but I guess PSU is another potential candidate
11:15 < [777]> JimBuntu: I got a joke for ya.  Why does nobody in the hacker business chew bubble gum?  Because they don't know how to open the wrap.  :P
11:16 < JimBuntu> philm88, Luckily, the power supply is probably much easier to inspect than RAM or HDD. Open it up and look for bulging/leaking capacitors, they are #1 cause of failures. You may even be able to give it the "smell test" to tell if something burnt out without having to even open anything.
11:17 < JimBuntu> [777], s/hacker/haxor
11:17 < philm88> JimBuntu: oh nice - hadn't occured to me that failing hardware might actually be physically observable
11:19 < Sitri> Do not touch the internals of a PSU though
11:20 < Skaface82> a computer PSU can kill even after its turned off
11:20 < philm88> yeah - capacitors can store charge for quite a long time
11:20 < philm88> even if its unplugged
11:22 < well_laid_lawn>  you can discharge the capicitors safely
11:22 < luke-jr> philm88: enough to kill? :O
11:22 < ayecee> probably not on computer power supply sized capacitors
11:23 < Skaface82> its possible
11:23 < philm88> luke-jr: if you're unlucky
11:23 < Skaface82> if your well earthed on one hand and you touch the caps leg with the other hand
11:24 < JimBuntu> Sorry, I don't even think to provide such warnings. While this isn't a CRT, it could still knock you down or maybe even kill you, kinda depends on the individual. I have been knocked back, not killed yet... not even from a flyback
11:24 < ayecee> not even then. you'd have to have a path to the other leg.
11:25 < philm88> but if you're poking around at the caps because you're expecting them to be broken...the cap might be shorting on something you're not expecting
11:25 < philm88> so generally, best not to poke around too much
11:27 < Skaface82> i guess by well earthed i meant grounded to the negative of the cap.. either way, yeah. best to be over-careful
11:27 < ayecee> even if it doesn't kill you, it'll be unpleasant.
11:27 < luke-jr> my PSU has a 12 year warranty anyway; not going to be voiding it
11:27 < Skaface82> im a electronic tech and havent been zapped yet ;)j
11:27 < philm88> /yet/
11:27 < philm88> :)
11:27 < ayecee> pfft. i'm not an electronic tech and i've been zapped.
11:28 < sauvin> I have nothing to do with electrical or electronics work of any kind and have been knocked on my ass just with /static/.
11:28 < JimBuntu> Skaface82, then it's time you get zapped in a safe environment, lol. Let the smoke out!
11:28 < luke-jr> I build my PCs, but don't know much about hardware otherwise, and don't take static seriously <.<
11:29 < Skaface82> try repairing an aircraft strobe power supply, they have BIG caps :-P
11:29 < luke-jr> otoh, super high humidity here, so.. static is less of a problem than for dry climates I guess
11:29 < ayecee> i'll leave that to the electronic techs :D
11:30 < JimBuntu> Until you have been knocked down and out by a radar rotational motor, it's all fun and games.
11:30 < Skaface82> ayecee: thanks for your suggestion on systemd, im researching that now
11:31 < iob> good day!
11:33 < ayecee> :)
11:37 < mark2> I'm running Arch Linux with MATE as the DE. I have this issue where there is a box blocking the part of the screen https://imgur.com/slZjRdP for the past two days when my laptop goes idle for a long hours.
11:37 < bumbar_> i have 2 ip's (on 1 interface with aliases) and 2 services running one on port 9000 and other on port 9002, and want each service to be reachable on port 9000 with their own ip and figured i could do this with iptables
11:37 < bumbar_> i've tried: iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --src <ip2> --sport 9000 --jump DNAT --to-destination <ip2>:9002   but doesn't seem to work
11:43 < fofalee> ayecee: you are still here, you have lots of patience
11:44 < fofalee> don't you have anything else to do with your life? ayecee
11:47 < well_laid_lawn> sounds like someone has had a couple too many
11:49 < zxcpoi> Anybody used rundeck ?! As I can't get any help from rundeck chan, and thought maybe somebody here used it
11:50 < alphawarrior> Hello everyone. When migrating to an other distro what are the files that you can copy over safely without endangering the new distro's configs?
11:51 < well_laid_lawn> things in /etc should be fine
11:51 < well_laid_lawn> and /home/you
11:53 < alphawarrior> oh thanks :)
11:53 < alphawarrior> but won't etc override other configs?
11:53 < stevendale> Hey
11:53 < alphawarrior> hello
11:53 < djph>  /etc is where the configs go
11:54 < well_laid_lawn> the configs in /etc are meant to be edited by the administrator
11:54 < djph> that's kind of the point of bringing them across
11:59 < ayecee> fofalee: never to return, eh
11:59 < ayecee> fofalee: drama queen
12:11 < satoshinakamoto> hey guys
12:11 < stevendale> Hey satoshinakamoto
12:12 < satoshinakamoto> do you know me?
12:12 < stevendale> Maybe :)
12:12 < satoshinakamoto> I have an assembly doubt
12:12 < satoshinakamoto> there is no one helping me on #asm
12:14 < well_laid_lawn> might ne the wrong time of day to get irc help without a bit of patience - try reading the /topic and links in #asm while you wait
12:14 < peetaur2> alphawarrior: use vimdiff to merge files in etc
12:34 < onla> I have a file on server where I ssh'd and it says permission denied when I try delete it
12:34 < onla> I tried chmod 777 to it, and now it is -rwxrwxrwx but it still says that
12:34 < nerdinja> you need to sudo rm
12:34 < nerdinja> or sudo rm -R for recursive
12:35 < nerdinja> this will prompt for sudo pass
12:35 < onla> I am not sudo in that server tho
12:36 < JimBuntu> onla, Who owns the file?
12:36 < TaZeR> so i was cleaning up my bashrc files and i came across this seems i dont need to have it twice, but i dont know what it does exactly and what the difference are between these short scripts could someone take a look please? http://ix.io/1860
12:36 < onla> I have created this drupal's settings.php file there and changed its permissions earlier I think
12:37 < JimBuntu> onla, well, as the owner of a file, you can re-assign ownership... that may be what you did. If that's the case, you can't simply re-claim ownership.
12:37 < onla> raahenli says when I do ls -lah in that dir... and `whoami` says I am raahenli
12:37 < peetaur2> onla: you need w permission on the containing directory to delete
12:37 < nerdinja> TaZeR: i believe that has to do with showing your enviroment variable in terminal
12:37 < nerdinja> onla: how did you chmod 777 if you're not sudo?
12:38 < onla> I typed chmod 777 filename
12:38 < JimBuntu> TaZeR, it set's up your prompt to look a little different depending on if you are in xterm or in screen program.
12:38 < nerdinja> onla: have you/can you also chown YourUsername settings.php
12:38 < onla> it seems that peetaur2 is on to something. There is no +w in the dir
12:38 < TaZeR> JimBuntu: can i eliminate one of the entries or do they do different things?
12:39 < nerdinja> TaZeR: what Jim said, if you have no interest in it just comment it out
12:39 < nerdinja> better practice to comment them out rather than removing the lines
12:39 < JimBuntu> TaZeR, they do cause what I would consider to eb an insignificant difference. No need to change them though, you aren't optimizing anything really
12:40 < milp_2> hi, ive got two ubuntu servers in the same subnet and with the same routes, one is able to connect to an ssh remote site, the other one always times out - nmap reveals that the port is open to one machine but filtered to the other - any ideas on how to debug this?
12:40 < TaZeR> alright thanks guess ill leave them both in then
12:40 < ananke> TaZeR: are you asking whether to remove one of the scripts entirely?
12:41 < TaZeR> yes
12:41 < peetaur2> TaZeR: probably some variable used later to set your PS1 ... just try each to see what it looks like on your prompt, and pick the one you prefer
12:41 < ananke> TaZeR: you could, since they're redundant.
12:42 < peetaur2> milp_2: try mtr in tcp mode on port 22     mtr --tcp -P 22 $hostname
12:43 < peetaur2> it ought to show you at which hop the filtering happens
12:44 < milp_2> peetaur2: thanks! i guess the problem node is the one with the high packet loss?
12:44 < milp_2> or how do i read it?
12:44 < peetaur2> like if you see 1. somemachine   2 ???   then the OUTPUT on somemachine blocked it, or the INPUT/nat/routing table (for reply)/etc is likely filtering it
12:44 < peetaur2> INPUT on 2. I mean
12:44 < milp_2> there are no ??? listings
12:44 < peetaur2> yeah or packet loss
12:45 < milp_2> actually comparing the output on both those servers, it is the same
12:45 < peetaur2> screenshot it if you want me to look and try to explain...but I think you can explain it fine
12:45 < peetaur2> same packet loss?
12:45 < milp_2> one has a node with 30% packet loss, the other only has 20% on that node, but apart from that
12:45 < milp_2> no actually there both around 37% loss now
12:45 < peetaur2> well 20-30% is pretty severe, but if that was the problem, then you'd just randomly get failures on both machines rather than consistent behavior
12:46 < milp_2> youre right that's one hell of a lot of packet loss
12:46 < milp_2> hmm apart from that the last ip b efore the destination actually differs
12:46 < peetaur2> another way to do it is run tcpdump on every hop along the way (do you have admin rights in all those places? :D) and then see where the packets end
12:47 < milp_2> yes i do
12:49 < peetaur2> and the ip before dest differing can be relevant... if you retry a bunch and always see the same, then maybe it is the cause...but maybe it randomly chooses another due to some load balancing or something
12:51 < milp_2> is there any downside in having a huge iptables filter list active at all times?
12:51 < milp_2> like performance wise or such?
12:53 < well_laid_lawn> you might be able to use /etc/hosts for some things
12:55 < nerdinja> anybody here familiar with the file exploer "fman.io"? having some trouble changing the font
12:58 < well_laid_lawn> you won't sell stuff in the linux world
12:58 < well_laid_lawn> the website for that file manager...
12:58 < anonymip> anyone here using putty to connect to your linux machines?
12:58 < fujisan> hello frands
12:59 < JimBuntu> anonymip, once upon a time I did in select cases, luckily I no longer am forced to use any Win box
12:59 < nerdinja> anonymip: i used to, switched to TeraTerm it's leagues ahead
12:59 < JimBuntu> anonymip, other than a survey, what's your real question?
12:59 < anonymip> I wonder if it's possible to correct a mistyped username when logging in, or do you need to close putty and open it again?
13:00 < nerdinja> are you able to still input characters in the window?
13:00 < nerdinja> can you just type "ssh username@your.ip.address" and hit enter?
13:00 < JimBuntu> anonymip, fix the config and re-try connecting
13:00 < nerdinja> haven't used putty in a while
13:00 < anonymip> well after typing username, it ask for password, so not chance to correct a bad username
13:01 < nerdinja> anonymip: think you can also configure in putty the username to automatically use
13:01 < mquin> anonymip: you can tell it to reconnect without closing the window - it'll re-prompt for the username
13:01 < nerdinja> ^
13:02 < anonymip> mquin, how do you tell it to reconnect, I don't see anything in the right-click menu
13:03 < mquin> anonymip: hit return until you get a "too many failures" popup, then "restart session" will appear in the top-left menu
13:03 < anonymip> ah, ok. thanks
13:06 < tdn> How do I keep correct owner/permissions on files and folders in a tree with lots of users adding files? E.g. a photo folder where users who are  member of the photo group bring in photos typically via SFTP, NFS or Samba. I want all files in there to be 0660 and owned by photo:photo or even $user:photo. And all folders be 0770. How do I enforce that?
13:09 < Triffid_Hunter> tdn: hm.. chmod ug+s and maybe umask settings in various daemons
13:23 < tdn> Triffid_Hunter, ug+s does that mean that group ownerships are inherited from parent folder?
13:25 < Triffid_Hunter> tdn: yeah, set-user-id and set-group-id bits
13:50 < tdn> Triffid_Hunter, ok, then how to handle permissison? Like 660 for files and 770 for folders?
13:54 < Rembo> hello everyone, how can i send attach instead of text using a similar command to: mail  -s "Very Slow Requests: $INSTANCE@`hostname`, `date`" test@test.com < /root/blabla.txt
13:55 < JimBuntu> Rembo, using "-A" ?
14:00 < Rembo> JimBuntu , when i try using -A i'm getting the CC and hangs can you please help me with the complet syntax?
14:01 < JimBuntu> Rembo,  mail  -s "Very Slow Requests: $INSTANCE@`hostname`, `date`" test@test.com -A /path/to/file < /root/blabla.txt
14:02 < Triffid_Hunter> tdn: I think it ends up as 6770/6660
14:03 < tdn> Triffid_Hunter, oh, so ug+s enforces BOTH inheritance of permissions AND ownerships?
14:04 < Triffid_Hunter> tdn: I haven't used it in a while so best do a little research, but I have used setuid/setgid bits for shared use of network resources before
14:04 < Triffid_Hunter> just don't remember that level of specifics ;)
14:07 < Rembo> JimBuntu: i try and it put A@email as email
14:09 < anzipex> How to connect via ssh with password (using sshpass) and after this show it (i mean "$ username@dev_name", that i connected) in current console window?
14:09 < JimBuntu> Rembo, you may want to `man mail` to verify the -A works with the specific mail program you have, I'm not sure what version or what distro you are using. This issue may also be related to how you are calling the mail command from a script, possibly
14:10 < djph> anzipex: er, when you connect to a new host with ssh, it should show your prompt as user@thathost ...
14:15 < section1> anzipex, depends on the console program
14:15 < JimBuntu> anzipex, I would suggest making sure that all servers/hosts you connect to have easily identified hostnames... if you can't/won't change the hostname, then simply change the PS1/prompt in the remote shell init file, such as ~/.bashrc
14:16 < section1> i think he wants the reflected on the windows title of the console
14:16 < Triffid_Hunter> heh one of the things I like doing with my remote hosts is sticking screen -xRR in the ~/.bash_profile then adding a tab bar using hardstatus
14:21 < anzipex> Okay, thanks
14:30  * Psi-Jack ducks.
14:35 < kazdax> i created a minimal installation with of debian in my usb
14:35 < kazdax> it dosnt boot up with the usb
14:35 < kazdax> my boot order it set to boot up with the usb stick
14:37 < blu132> kazdax: how recent is your computer? older computers frequently just can't boot from usb media
14:37 < t0mato> kazdax: have you installed a bootloader onto the usb?
14:37 < maret> hi , I've weird problem with terminal . When I run command requiring multiple confirmation like npm init after I hit enter once terminal stops responding. Cursor is blinking but it ignores anything I type. I can reproduce this on pantheon-terminal, gnome-terminal, xterm  so i might screwed something with my user settings
14:40 < JimBuntu> maret, same effect if you use CTRL+M ?
14:41 < JimBuntu> maret, quick suggestion, try creating a new user, log in as that user and see if it persists... that at least tells you if it's global or user local
14:43 < milp_2> how come that when tracing a route with mtr one node always produces packet loss, however if i ping that node directly or ping the original destination, no packet loss occurs
14:43 < maret> JimBuntu, yeap  seems like bashrc was somehow corrupted
14:43 < maret> i replaced it with the new on and now it works
14:43 < JimBuntu> yay maret, that should be an easy fix
14:48 < JimBuntu> milp_2, mtr is more complete and telling than ping along.  Are you getting total packet loss via mtr? BTW: I don't use mtr much, but since no one else replied, I'll throw some things out there
14:49 < milp_2> jimbuntu: it looks like the packet loss always occurs at one specific node, which is also the wan gateway
14:50 < JimBuntu> Is your wan gateway performing any QoS or general packet sniffing?
14:54 < milp_2> jimbuntu: not that i know of
14:55 < interrobangd> can i change the mount namespace of a process?
14:55 < milp_2> what tool could i use to prove that the mtr packet loss output is right before contacting support for that gateway?
14:55 < interrobangd> i can enter a namespace with nsenter, but how to manipulate the mount namespace of a running process?
14:55 < JimBuntu> milp_2, you could try traceroute and ping, and manually run them with differing TTLs
14:57 < paradis> I need a small linux that can run on usb but still actively managed
14:57 < kazdax> my usb stick is working properly on my other system
14:57 < milp_2> jimbuntu using ping i don't get any packet loss ata ll
14:58 < kazdax> but not booting on this one
14:59 < mawk> interrobangd: yes you can
14:59 < mawk> for a running process ? it's trickier
14:59 < mawk> the process itself needs to ask for it
14:59 < interrobangd> yes
14:59 < mawk> so you can use ptrace
15:00 < mawk> but some programs can't be ptraced: setuid programs, programs that asked for being non dumpable with prctl
15:00 < mawk> the best way is to fork, change namespace, then exec the program
15:00 < mawk> from the beggining
15:01 < mawk> maybe you can hack around the /proc/$pid/ns files
15:01 < mawk> let me try
15:02 < mawk> no, you can't
15:02 < mawk> so last chance is ptrace interrobangd
15:03 < interrobangd> i have a running docker container with own mount namespace and want to edit some files there... but within this namespace are no editor like vi. i can enter the namespace of the docker container, but cant load vi, because its not existing
15:03 < t0mato> kazdax: is your other system uefi/bios while the one you're currently trying to boot on is not?
15:04 < mawk> interrobangd: it's a better situation that some random running process
15:04 < mawk> you can LD_PRELOAD vi, probably
15:04 < interrobangd> mawk, there are other ways to do that, but i want to check if its posssible to run i.e. VI and push it to the mount namespace of the docker container
15:05 < paulcarroty> hello, folks. I'm trying to play with wine and got "cannot find the freetype library". Can I detect the path and library name which he was looking for?
15:05 < mawk> create a .so with a C function declared like this: __attribute__((__constructor__(65535))) void change_ns(void) { /* ... */ }
15:06 < mawk> preload it into vi, hope for the best
15:06 < mawk> the function will hopefully get executed after all glibc/ld.so initialization is done
15:06 < mawk> depending into the lightweightness of vi
15:06 < kazdax> tamato ..my system is not eufi
15:06 < kazdax> but when i burned it ontot he usb i burnet it as both uefi and bois
15:06 < t0mato> kazdax: neither the one it works on nor the one where it doesn't?
15:07 < mawk> you can do C interrobangd ?
15:07 < kazdax> it worjks on the newer system
15:07 < interrobangd> not realy
15:07 < kazdax> not on the older one
15:07 < Psi-Jack> You "burned" a USB? ;)
15:07 < t0mato> kazdax: how big is the USB device you're using? a couple os my old laptops refuse to boot from anything bigger than 8GB
15:07 < kazdax> should i try burning it into a ntfs file system ..since its a 64 bit 9nstaller
15:07 < kazdax> its 512
15:07 < t0mato> s/os/of
15:07 < kazdax> mb
15:07 < t0mato> huh, that should work alright then
15:07 < t0mato> I honestly have no idea what the problem could be, sorry
15:08 < kazdax> no worries
15:08 < kazdax> i just need a new a computer :(
15:08 < section1> paulcarroty, try strace sure its truetype
15:09 < t0mato> kazdax: could always try network booting, that's what I did the last couple times I had to install any OS on my laptop
15:09 < paulcarroty> section1, ok, will try
15:09 < xtron> I
15:10 < blu132> kazdax: if your system is not an uefi system, that sounds like it is older. have you successfully booted from any usb device on that computer before?
15:10 < Psi-Jack> Non-UEFI can boot USB too, usually.
15:10 < kazdax> yesi have blu
15:11 < blu132> Psi-Jack: depends on the age, I have two early 2000's laptops that can only boot from floppy or cdrom
15:11 < Psi-Jack> Not age. More so, BIOS.
15:12 < kazdax> okay let me go try again and see if i change some
15:12 < mawk> how did you expect to setns then interrobangd ?
15:12 < mawk> well let me try this, it's just one line of C to do
15:12 < blu132> kazdax how exactly did you create the boot usb stick?
15:12 < Psi-Jack> blu132: He /quit
15:12 < blu132> oh
15:12 < mawk> otherwise you'd recompile vi and add the line at the top of main(), interrobangd
15:12 < blu132> Psi-Jack I was about to suggest the ultimate boot floppy :( https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/download.html
15:13 < mawk> is it an unprivileged container interrobangd ?
15:13 < mawk> who is the root inside mapped to ?
15:13 < Jenz> Can (ex-) users of macOS tell me what the equavilent of alt+<any key> (usually) is here on linux?
15:13 < Psi-Jack> blu132: Step 1, I'd think, would be to check if BIOS has an option to, or shows a USB device in the boot device selector.
15:13 < mawk> what does it do Jenz ?
15:14 < blu132> Psi-Jack reasonable - either way, he's gone
15:14 < Psi-Jack> :0
15:14 < Psi-Jack> He'll be back, I bet.
15:14 < Jenz> mawk, alt+4 is dollar sign, alt+7 is backslash, while shift+7 is slash, etc.
15:14 < blu132> on another note, has anybody experienced that X11 core text and graphics primitives like lines slow down to a crawl with probrietary video drivers?
15:14 < mawk> $\/
15:15 < Jenz> Its a modifier to get different characters
15:15 < mawk> I can do that without funny codes
15:15 < Jenz> Yeah those
15:15 < LTCD> Guys I am doing a Hack This Site mission but the computer I am using will not allow me to install software. Could someone please decode this MD4 hash? 1f2a633a2d09bff96a9aa9e0201e353a
15:15 < Jenz> Well Im on a MacBook and Cannot D:
15:15 < interrobangd> mawk, its root - docker needs allways root priv.
15:15 < mawk> not always interrobangd
15:15 < mawk> there's a thing called unprivileged container
15:15 < mawk> the uid 0 inside the container is mapped to uid foobar in the outside world
15:15 < JimBuntu> Jenz, what distro are you using? macOS/Darwin?
15:15 < Jenz> Arch
15:15 < mawk> so even if something goes wrong inside, root isn't really root
15:15 < mawk> it's a security measure
15:16 < blu132> LTCD: isn't that like..cheating?
15:16 < mawk> MD4 ?
15:16 < mawk> what is that
15:16 < LTCD> blu132: No, not when I know how to do it myself but am stuck on a restricted company computer.
15:16 < blu132> mawk that's when you miss the 5 I guess
15:17 < LTCD> mawk: It's not MD5 it's MD4, in the mission the DB is a decade old.
15:17 < Jenz> JimBuntu, I do not think macOS is a distro
15:17 < mawk> no hit on online MD4 decrypting tool
15:17 < mawk> good luck with that
15:17 < JimBuntu> Jenz, that's a fair point. I was mixing jargon as I figured you were using Linux, but wasn't sure.
15:17 < LTCD> mawk: No. It can be done quickly with Cain and Able#
15:17 < mawk> yeah maybe
15:17 < Psi-Jack> LTCD: This channel is for the help and discussion of GNU/Linux...
15:18 < mawk> but then it depends on the cleartext length
15:18 < LTCD> Cain & Abel
15:18 < mawk> it could take secondes, hours, days
15:18 < LTCD> It's a simple war game trust me it takes seconds.
15:18 < LTCD> Psi-Jack: I know, I just thought since most people on here are in InfoSec they wouldn't find doing me a 60 second favor.
15:18 < Psi-Jack> LTCD: The point being, it has nothing to do with Linux, what you are asking.
15:18 < LTCD> :-(
15:18 < mawk> lol
15:18 < mawk> poor LTCD
15:19 < Jenz> Seriously though, I am really struggling, imagine not being able to type bracket, curly brackets, dollar signs, backslashes, etc.
15:19 < mawk> at least give a clear package name for what I need to install
15:19 < mawk> and I will do it
15:19 < xtron> I'm built an image for an embedded target (ultrazed) but display (xserver) has not output (using display port), trying to identify the problem /var/log/Xorg.log is here https://pastebin.com/pzBKHiHq
15:19 < Jenz> *brackets
15:19  * Jenz sad
15:19 < mawk> try the same way you were in macos Jenz
15:19 < mawk> if it doesn't work change the keyboard layout to Apple
15:19 < mawk> linux can work with that
15:19 < Jenz> I did that already
15:20 < Jenz> But nothing happens when I type alt+<anything>
15:22 < interrobangd> mawk, just thought about something simmilar like nsenter, but just for change namespace :D
15:23 < interrobangd> i dont want to hack VI by programming something arround with additional syscalls
15:25 < Jenz> The keys that usually are brackets, is on my machine, as i am  norwegian ø and æ
15:25 < mawk> yes you want interrobangd
15:25 < bmk3000> Welcome, @absurdistani
15:25 < mawk> I've just finished the program
15:25 < mawk> let me try it now
15:25 < mawk> it's very simple
15:25 < mawk> you just do LD_PRELOAD=my_wonderful.so vi path
15:25 < mawk> and I take care of the rest
15:25 < mawk> if it works, that is
15:25 < Jenz> Why vi, and not just vim?
15:26 < bmk3000> I think that vi, is an abbreviation or something. I may be wrong.
15:26 < Jenz> Oh, not the text editor then
15:26 < bmk3000> It may or may not be the same thing.
15:27 < oktaya> Hello ladies and gents.  I have a remote server, a kvm guest actually. I am seeing people attempting to access /dev/tty1  .. How is this possible? What are they actually using to connect to tty1 ?
15:27 < bmk3000> Hold on, i figured it out
15:27 < bmk3000> vi is the original text editor
15:27 < bmk3000> vim is "vi improved"
15:27 < bmk3000> so its a new open-source version
15:28 < blu132> what is a viitor or an emacsitor? those aren't even words!
15:28 < Jenz> Yeah I know bmk3000, thats why i wondered why not use vim instead of vim...
15:28 < compdoc> I use nano
15:28 < bmk3000> So do it @compdoc
15:28 < Jenz> *vim instead of vi
15:28 < Jenz> nano is boring :P
15:28 < compdoc> phfft
15:28 < Psi-Jack> compdoc: You compose a lot of mail? ;}
15:28 < bmk3000> The only reason i use nano is because i dont have enough time to learn vi/vim
15:29 < compdoc> see? everyone uses nano
15:29 < section1> oktaya, maybe vncviewer or for example virt-manager
15:29 < Psi-Jack> compdoc: Everyone? No. I never use nano.
15:29 < Jenz> You need just half an hour to learn what you need to surpass nano
15:29 < Jenz> (in vim)
15:29 < bmk3000> Really?
15:29 < Psi-Jack> Yes, really.
15:29 < blu132> compdoc, not true, it is not even installed on my computer, actually
15:29 < bmk3000> I remember it being more compilicated.
15:30 < Psi-Jack> bmk3000: https://vim-adventures.com/
15:30 < Jenz> Yeah, try the vimtutor program, or enter vim and type ":tutor" one of those should work
15:30 < Psi-Jack> Have fun learning. :)
15:30 < Jenz> Or that :D
15:30 < bmk3000> I cant seam to get to that site
15:30 < blu132> bmk3000 $ man ed to waste your time and not get anything out of it either
15:30 < Psi-Jack> bmk3000: Odd. Works for me.
15:30 < bmk3000> k
15:30 < t0mato> real men use cat & echo as their text editor of choice
15:30 < bmk3000> my school probobly is blocking it or something
15:31 < Psi-Jack> t0mato: More like masochists do
15:31 < mawk> it works interrobangd
15:31 < mawk> you use it like that: sudo TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/24328/ns/mnt LD_PRELOAD=./libmountns.so yourprogramgoeshere
15:31 < mawk> replace 24328 by the PID you want
15:31 < interrobangd> mawk, i am not very familiar with syscalls and C
15:32 < mawk> no need for that because I wrote the program for you
15:32 < Jenz> Why would you need to do sudo to set a variable?
15:32 < blu132> t0mato real men use butterflies
15:32 < Jenz> real men edit files with dd
15:33 < Jenz> And good luck
15:33 < t0mato> with if=/dev/urandom
15:33 < t0mato> I'm sure at some point you'd get the desired outcome
15:33  * Jenz hmmm
15:33 < interrobangd> mawk, ok - libmountns.so? how much? :P
15:33 < blu132> Jenz it is set for the environment of the program that should be executed with sudo
15:34  * Jenz shrugs
15:34 < mawk> lol
15:34 < mawk> interrobangd: https://paste.linux.community/view/2fa21272
15:35 < mawk> you compile it like this: gcc -D_GNU_SOURCE -std=c99 -fpic libmountns.c -shared -o libmountns.so
15:35 < interrobangd> int fd is then used by vi?
15:36 < mawk> well
15:36 < interrobangd> fine
15:36 < mawk> I run setns() on behalf of vi yes
15:36 < mawk> just what you asked for
15:36 < mawk> that program is ran in vi's process, just before it initializes
15:36 < Jenz> Byee
15:38 < BluesKaj> recover start menu
15:39 < interrobangd> mawk, nsenter and --target option are not the same like your solution?
15:39 < mawk> yeah maybe
15:40 < mawk> but not quite exactly
15:40 < mawk> using nsenter you will execute the vi inside the container
15:40 < mawk> and there is no vi inside the container
15:40 < mawk> so you're screwed
15:40  * Psi-Jack gets a screwdriver.
15:40 < mawk> :(
15:40 < mawk> using my program you'll execute the vi from the outside world, inside the container
15:41 < interrobangd> you are right
15:42  * jim is just left of right
15:43 < interrobangd> mawk, https://lwn.net/Articles/531271/
15:43 < interrobangd> same?
15:43 < interrobangd> :D
15:44 < mawk> no, your link is the same as nsenter
15:44 < mawk> it first setns then execve
15:44 < mawk> me I first execve then setns
15:45 < interrobangd> ok :)
15:49 < mawk> actually you maybe need more than just setns
15:49 < mawk> maybe you should chroot to the container base directory
15:49 < mawk> dunno how docker handles this though
15:49 < interrobangd> i will try it now
15:49 < interrobangd> ..your hack ;)
15:52 < interrobangd> mawk, you are the best!
15:52 < mawk> lol
15:53 < mawk> it works ?
15:53 < interrobangd> executed a bash shell inside running container without installed bash :D
15:53 < mawk> nice
15:53 < mawk> and it's really inside the container ?
15:53 < mawk> the / is the same as in the container ?
15:53 < mawk> that was my concern
15:53 < interrobangd> yes
15:53 < mawk> nice
15:55 < interrobangd> mawk, what i can do if i want enter all namespaces?
15:55 < mawk> just slightly modify the program
15:55 < mawk> but you can't enter PID namespace
15:55 < mawk> not every namespace is useful as well
15:55 < mawk> you want the network ?
15:56 < interrobangd> yes, would be nice
15:56 < mawk> just the network ?
15:56 < interrobangd> mount aand net
15:58 < interrobangd> and it works only with programs that dynamically linked?
16:00 < rosa> ?
16:02 < rosa> Wtf r u all talking about
16:04 < rosa> If your trying to run apps without needing chroot or container or vm then it impossible
16:04 < mawk> here we go interrobangd
16:04 < mawk> yes only for dynamic executables
16:04 < mawk> but most executables are, anyway
16:04 < mawk> for other executables you'd have to recompile them and include the .o in it
16:05 < interrobangd> i see
16:09 < mawk> interrobangd: http://gitlab.suut.in/sasha/changens/repository/archive.tar.gz
16:09 < mawk> here you go
16:10 < mawk> run make in it
16:10 < mawk> then you do `sudo LD_PRELOAD=./changens.so TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/2587/ns/mnt:/proc/2587/ns/net echo ok' for instance
16:11 < mawk> separate the paths by :
16:13 < mawk> you see how fast I set up a git repository just for you
16:14 < mawk> what rosa ?
16:14 < mawk> it's not impossible, it works
16:14 < mawk> he's trying to run a program from his host in the context of a container
16:14 < mawk> the program being physically absent from the container
16:15 < rosa> Yea ONLY when the app is compiled for the current host attempting to run it -_-
16:15 < mawk> ?
16:15 < mawk> containers share their kernel
16:15 < mawk> so it will always work
16:16 < rosa> containers DO NOT COUNT
16:16 < mawk> what ?
16:16 < zumba_addict> Morning all. It's been years since I implemented transparent proxy with squid and linux. Am I right that even if a user updates his /etc/resolv.conf to point to an external dns, it's useless since his http request would be intercepted and rerouted to the running squid?
16:16 < mawk> what are you saying
16:16 < rosa> -_-
16:16 < rosa> wtf r u trying to do
16:16 < mawk> I said it
16:16 < mawk> 16:14:50 <mawk> he's trying to run a program from his host in the context of a container
16:16 < mawk> change namespaces after execve() is done
16:16 < mawk> it's a pretty standard thing, there's a syscall for that
16:17 < rosa> so basicallly what?
16:17 < tomato> anyone here happen to know how to properly set the wifi regulatory country? 'iw reg set' works, but it seems to reset on every reboot
16:17 < mawk> <mawk> he's trying to run a program from his host in the context of a container
16:17 < mawk> run the /usr/bin/nano of the host so that it sees the file inside the container
16:17 < rosa> emulating a fake container that REQUIRES THE HOST LIBS?
16:17 < mawk> I can't explain it better than that
16:17 < mawk> the setns() call is done long after the libs have been loaded
16:17 < rosa> the entire point of a container is to self contain an application
16:17 < mawk> but you're right in saying that there could be an issue with the shared libraries in case of lazy loading
16:17 < mawk> thanks
16:18 < mawk> you have one more env variable to add to make sure all required libs are loaded up front interrobangd
16:18 < mawk> thank rosa
16:18 < peetaur2> zumba_addict: test it with tcpdump
16:18 < mawk> yes zumba_addict
16:18 < rosa> and using LD_PRELOAD WILL NOT FIX THIS
16:19 < mawk> fix what sorry ?
16:19 < rosa> the self contain,ent
16:19 < rosa> Containment*
16:19 < mawk> why not ?
16:19 < mawk> I don't see the problem
16:19 < mawk> containers are all about namespaces
16:19 < zumba_addict> and I also think that back in those days, I prevented users from directly setting a connection to external services like ssh so that they won't be able to setup a tunnel
16:20 < mawk> the kernel allows you to change namespace, there's no issue in that
16:20 < rosa> because the linker itself CANNOT BE LD_PRELOAD'ED
16:20 < mawk> the dynamic linking is done way before I call setns()
16:20 < mawk> that's the point
16:20 < rosa> i know
16:20 < ayecee> ease up on the caps. it's not worth getting upset about.
16:20 < mawk> anyway it works
16:20 < rosa> But your trying to self contain it right?
16:20 < mawk> no
16:21 < mawk> it's just for convenience, for running an executable that isn't in the container files
16:21 < mawk> he could as well copy the program inside the container and run it normally
16:21 < mawk> it's all about convenience
16:21 < rosa> then why try to emulate a container or whatever your doing
16:21 < mawk> emulate ?
16:21 < mawk> I'm just *joining* the container's namespace
16:21 < mawk> not recreating a new one
16:22 < zumba_addict> i think our setup at work for our test linux web/firewall/dhcp server, it provides the dns ip thru dhcp scopes. That means, if user's /etc/resolv.conf got updated by dhclient, and I manually update it like pointing it to 8.8.8.8, and there is also a rule in that firewall that blocks udp/tcp 53, dns requests to 8.8.8.8 or any external dns server will fail
16:22 < rosa> so your adding a program into an existing container?
16:22 < mawk> not adding, just starting
16:23 < zumba_addict> I'll see too if I can run tcpdump on the linux servers. I hope the binary wasn't removed
16:23 < rosa> Same thing
16:23 < rosa> It needs to be added first in order for it to be started
16:23 < mawk> no
16:23 < rosa> Otherwise it would just be outside of the container
16:24 < mawk> containers are just a name for the whole mechanism
16:24 < mawk> the basic unit here is the namespace
16:24 < mawk> and the kernel allows you to switch namespaces during program execution
16:28 < leru> is there any linux aquivalent to the dolby sound driver thingy on windows?
16:30 < Jenz> Hey mawk, remember my question from before?
16:31 < mawk> yes
16:31 < Jenz> I think what im looking for is an altgr key, but macbooks doesn't have those, any ideas?
16:32 < P_B> ALSA is the premier sound driver library set for linux, leru. There are others, and some manufacturers also have their own proprietary drivers.
16:32 < Jenz> Actually I can probably figure this out myself
16:33 < prussian> use a us keymap that treats right alt as altgr
16:33 < prussian> in Xorg it's altgr-intl
16:34 < Jenz> But then i wouldn't have æøå
16:34 < Jenz> Which i need
16:34 < Jenz> Eh don't bother helping me
16:34 < Jenz> I'll figure
16:34 < mawk> interrobangd: also set LD_BIND_NOW=1 in the environment
16:35 < Jenz> You're talking to me?
16:35 < mawk> that will force load every .so object at the beggining
16:35  * Jenz stares curiously
16:35 < mawk> no, to interrobangd
16:35 < mawk> lol
16:35 < mawk> but Jenz you can try the compose key maybe
16:35 < Jenz> ^^
16:35 < mawk> to keep having your å and stuff
16:36 < mawk> æ å ø
16:36 < Jenz> No way I'll bother remember all those char-codes xD
16:36 < prussian> æøå
16:36 < mawk> ae is compose a e, å is compose o a, ø is compose / o
16:36 < prussian> all in altgr-intl
16:36 < Jenz> Oh
16:37 < mawk> ad vitam æternam, ma sœur
16:37 < ayecee> what a show off
16:37 < mawk> :(
16:37 < Jenz> Shame Silmarillion left, such a great book
16:37 < mawk> œœœ
16:38 < Jenz> Oh, hello Silmarilion
16:38 < Jenz> Good book
16:38 < kazdax> okay so i finally went a got me some empty dvds
16:38 < mnemon> éè
16:38 < kazdax> so what should i choose
16:38 < kazdax> debians , opensuse or fedora ?
16:38 < ayecee> life
16:38 < Jenz> Arch :D
16:39 < kazdax> nahh i have these 3 choices ?
16:39 < busybox42> Arch :D
16:39 < kazdax> because i need to learn linux from scratch
16:39 < ayecee> ubuntu
16:39 < kazdax> and arch might be a little bit to much
16:39 < kazdax> debian , openSUSE and fedora
16:39 < kazdax> or*
16:39 < kazdax> i think ill go with debian
16:39 < Jenz> Debian
16:39 < Jenz> Yeah
16:39 < nomn> guys, if a program needs to be sourced each time i log in to my system, what does that mean?
16:39 < kazdax> so far so good with it
16:40 < kazdax> Fedora seems good too
16:40 < dgurney> just try them all and use the one you like most
16:40 < Jenz> Try each of them out in virtualbox maybe?
16:40 < kazdax> i mean the difference is mostly just the packgae system right ?
16:41 < kazdax> which one has a better package manager ?
16:41 < Jenz> Arch :D
16:41 < kazdax> is ubuntu Debian ?
16:41 < milp_2> are there any downsides if the deny/drop lists of iptables grow really huge over time?
16:41 < dgurney> based on it, yes
16:41 < Jenz> Isn't it a fork?
16:41 < kazdax> what about kali linux is that debian too ?
16:41 < kazdax> i really really wanna do linux from sratch
16:42 < Jenz> Don't care about kali bro
16:42 < azarus> kazdax: kali != debian, but based off of it
16:42 < azarus> kazdax: just do it
16:42 < kazdax> ahh i see
16:42 < kazdax> kali is just bloated with to many pre installed packages
16:42 < azarus> that's what kali's about
16:42 < busybox42> Kali is a pentesting distro.
16:42 < milp_2> yup, its supposed to be a pentesting suite
16:42 < Jenz> Yeah, Kali should only ever be used on VMs i've heard
16:43 < busybox42> If you want to learn linux stick with Debian or Fedora... Better yet try them both.  Then ditch them and use Arch. :D
16:43 < Jenz> Great idea busybox42 :D
16:43 < kazdax> i will look into Arch eventually ..specially if i get to do linux from sratch
16:44 < kazdax> i just need an operating system that i can tweak as i desire depending ont he project
16:44 < kazdax> and it seems based on projects todo linux can run on about any hardware
16:44 < kazdax> that supports OS s
16:44 < leru> P_B: yes, but issue is: ALSA doesn't sound great with my thinkpad
16:44 < ipatrol> ughu
16:44 < ipatrol> I *finally* fixed my hosed LVM vg
16:46 < Jenz> "i just need an operating system that i can tweak as i desire depending ont he project" - *Arch* :D
16:46 < kazdax> wow the debian has 3 DVDs
16:46 < kazdax> hmmm arch ..is arch as tweakable as say LFS ?
16:46 < revel> No.
16:46 < mawk> probably milp_2
16:46 < mawk> you can maybe use ipsets to circumvent that
16:46 < dgurney> no, but how much do you need to tweak anyway?!
16:47 < kazdax> as much as possible ?
16:47 < azarus> Gentoo is quite tweakable.
16:47 < Jenz> Yeah
16:47 < dgurney> indeed
16:47 < kazdax> i want to do embedded devices at some point
16:47 < revel> Definitely moreso than Arch. Not quite as much as LFS, but nothing really is.
16:47 < Jenz> Indeed
16:47 < peetaur2> arch is a full system ready to use...so while the tweaking will mean undoing something done, it's easy... and on LFS you have so much overhead of the entire rest of the system, that it would surely cost you more time
16:47 < azarus> LFS isn't really a distro -- just instructions
16:48 < ipatrol> I was able to recover my metadata, but LVM refused to restore from it because it couldn't read the vg label. So ultimately I ended up just making a new vg, then changed the UUIDs in the metadata file to match the new vg. Worked perfectly.
16:48 < kazdax> i have a queastion the mimimal install of debian ..does it connect ot he internet to download the other tools i want in the system ?
16:48 < rosa> Any distro is tweakable if you set it up properly
16:48 < kazdax> should i just urn the minimal install onto the DVD and then download the software needed as i go ?
16:49 < azarus> why even use optical media
16:49 < ipatrol> cheap, thin, long lasting
16:49 < dgurney> and slow
16:49 < kazdax> my usb isnt working
16:49 < kazdax> i bought a new usb ..i could try using it ..
16:49 < ipatrol> Works with legacy systems
16:49 < Jenz> Are you sure you just don't know how to use it?
16:50 < Jenz> (the usb)
16:50 < kazdax> i tried eveything believe me
16:50 < azarus> DVDs are horribly expensive in my country. Only thing I use them for are my PowerPC machines
16:50 < ipatrol> I have a whole drawer filled with distro CDs
16:50 < azarus> CDs*
16:50 < kazdax> i have installed with USBs before ..its working on the other system,
16:50 < dgurney> if you aren't using a legacy system, there's no reason to use optical media anymore
16:50 < kazdax> how would i know if its a legacy system ?
16:50 < azarus> kazdax: is it made before around 2005
16:50 < azarus> ?*
16:51 < kazdax> hmmm
16:51 < ipatrol> Also once you burn a distro to a CD, it's read-only, so you can't hose it
16:51 < kazdax> ya around 2005
16:51 < kazdax> hold on let me check
16:51 < dgurney> well, if it supports usb booting there's no reason to burn a disc
16:51 < Jenz> Lol, I've never used a CD for anything like this, I guess I am too young
16:51 < dgurney> ipatrol, you have to be extraordinarily determined to hose a live usb
16:52 < dgurney> especially if you just dd an iso to a stick
16:52 < azarus> Jenz: I am likely younger, but I work with odd machines
16:52 < Jenz> How you young?
16:52 < fendur> floppy slackware installs!
16:52 < ipatrol> dgurney: I fit into the "extraordinarily determined" category more than I wish I were
16:52 < azarus> Jenz: Young enough not to have experienced the turn of the millenium.
16:53 < jhaenchen> Morning all
16:53 < Jenz> Same, you haven't won yet azarus
16:53 < Jenz> :P
16:53 < dgurney> I've used more than my fair share of optical media to install distros
16:53 < jhaenchen> Any channel recommendations for people comfortable interacting with devices at the USB or HID protocol level?
16:53 < jhaenchen> Need some help but no one is operating at that level in my usual chans
16:54 < dgurney> mainly because I always had old systems which did not support USB booting without trickery when I was younger
16:54 < Jenz> jhaenchen: Just use dd for everything? :D
16:54 < ipatrol> Jenz: ddrescue is faster
16:54 < jhaenchen> Jenz: ha, th-thanks
16:54 < dgurney> just cat the ISO to the device :P
16:54 < jhaenchen> god this is why i like webdev
16:55 < jhaenchen> everything low level is so poorly documented and unforging
16:55 < ipatrol> dgurney: My cat is soft and fluffy
16:55 < azarus> cat odd_distro.iso > /dev/sd<whatever>
16:55 < azarus> works perfectly
16:55 < dgurney> indeed
16:55 < azarus> or, if you're not root:
16:56 < azarus> cat odd_distro.iso | sudo tee /dev/sd<whatever>
16:56 < ipatrol> tee?
16:56 < azarus> cat odd_distro.iso | sudo tee /dev/sd<whatever> > /dev/null
16:56 < Jenz> jhaenchen, everything low-level is awesome and absolutely essential, just much harder than web-dev things
16:56 < azarus> if you don't want you're terminal messed up
16:56 < azarus> ipatrol: man tee
16:56 < prussian> everything low level is just poorly typed
16:56 < prussian> that's why it's garbage and always will be
16:56 < jhaenchen> harder in different, worse ways if you ask me
16:56 < revel> azarus: As in born post-2000 or you just weren't that old in 2000?
16:56  * jhaenchen fumes
16:56 < azarus> revel: post
16:57 < ipatrol> azarus: I know, but until you added the /dev/null I was trying to figure out why you were blasting an iso to stdout
16:57 < dgurney> i was born in 1999
16:57 < twainwek> asl
16:57 < Jenz> I was born in 2002
16:57 < azarus> like we're back in 2005
16:57 < Jenz> Guess you win then :D
16:58 < revel> twainwek: 6/f/Yokohama, Japan
16:58 < ipatrol> I just used a distro on a CD to un-hose my system
16:58 < ipatrol> revel: you with the Navy?
16:58 < revel> No, mister.
16:58 < revel> I pwomise.
16:58 < ipatrol> ???
16:58 < azarus> https://man.openbsd.org/tee vs https://linux.die.net/man/1/tee
16:58 < atmx> prussian: low-level is not for dummies from developers team
16:58 < azarus> one's funnier :P
16:59 < prussian> uh ok
16:59  * Jenz smirks
17:01 < litewq> apart from nice and renice,is there a parameter kernel takes to compute priorities for each processes?
17:01 < azarus> ionice?
17:02 < kazdax> fuck even my DVD drive aint working :(
17:02 < kazdax> looks like i cant install linux no matter how hard i try
17:02 < ayecee> mind the language please
17:02 < Jenz> Why not just go with your previously mentioned new usb?
17:02 < kazdax> sory
17:02 < litewq> azarus: what is ionice?
17:03 < kazdax> yes that could be tried
17:03 < Jenz> Even a 4gb one should be sufficient for (as far as I know) most distros
17:04 < Jenz> And its super easy, just `dd if=path/to/some.iso of=/dev/sd<whatever>`
17:04 < Jenz> And reboot with the usb plugged in
17:05 < kazdax> i am using rufus
17:05 < prussian> I'm sorry
17:05 < kazdax> i dont understand why my DVD drive aint working tho
17:06 < prussian> just format it fat32, mount the iso in windows and copy pasta it on
17:06 < prussian> make sure to move /boot/EFI to just /EFI
17:06 < prussian> your firmware should be able to figure it out.
17:06 < kazdax> k
17:06 < Jenz> prussian, depends a lot on the hardware
17:06 < Jenz> Doesn't it?
17:06 < prussian> if he has UEFI, it shouldn't
17:07 < kazdax> no uefi
17:07 < kazdax> okay i am gonna reboot and see if the usb works
17:07 < prussian> or if the image contains files larger than 4GiB....
17:07 < kazdax> wish me luck
17:07 < Jenz> Good luck :)
17:19 < Psi-Jack> Mmmmmm, copied pasta. :)
17:20 < Isky> Any pasta would be yummy. Sign me up.
17:20  * Psi-Jack looks at wodencafe 
17:23 < wodencafe> what
17:26 < Jenz> Es0teric? Satie? Esoteric satie? Big fan
17:26 < interrobangd> mawk, thank you very much !!
17:27 < interrobangd> works fine!
17:27 < mawk> great
17:27 < interrobangd> sudo TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/3787/ns/mnt LD_PRELOAD=./changens.so LD_BIND_NOW=1 nano /etc/nginx/nginx.conf
17:27 < interrobangd> just for convenience :D
17:27 < litewq> apart from nice and renice,is there a parameter kernel takes to compute priorities for each processes?
17:28 < mawk> what do you mean compute litewq
17:28 < litewq> can we prioritize process in linux
17:29 < ayecee> litewq: to what end?
17:29 < litewq> ayecee: lets say to release cpu contention or probably to reduce disk io
17:29 < mawk> there are many tools to do it yes
17:30 < mawk> nice, ionice, cgroups
17:30 < mawk> cgroups is the most flexible
17:30 < litewq> cgroups?
17:30 < ayecee> litewq: like, what's the specific problem you're trying to solve, that nice is not solving?
17:30 < litewq> they are just to isolate a process right?
17:30 < litewq> ayecee: i thought nice doesnt release disk io
17:30 < Isky> litewq: renice if it's already running
17:31 < litewq> ohh
17:31 < mawk> cgroups is for many things
17:31 < ayecee> litewq: was that intended for someone else?
17:31 < Jenz> Are you guys using graphical irc clients?
17:31 < Isky> Jenz: I'm not.
17:31 < Jenz> I like irssi
17:32 < Jenz> (which is not graphical)
17:32 < mawk> you can modify the number of CPU shares per group of process litewq
17:32 < mawk> using cgroups
17:32 < mawk> same thing with I/O speed and disk time
17:32 < mawk> it's not for isolation in this case
17:33 < litewq> sure. mawk how ionice and nice are different
17:36 < mawk> difference between nice and ionice ?
17:36 < absurdistani> nice is for cpu, and ionice is for io
17:37 < litewq> mawk: yes
17:40 < interrobangd> mawk, TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/3837/ns/mnt:/proc/3837/ns/net
17:40 < interrobangd> mawk, dont work with more then one namespace
17:40 < mawk> what does it say ?
17:41 < mawk> it works for me
17:41 < interrobangd> sudo TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/3837/ns/mnt:/proc/3837/ns/net LD_PRELOAD=./changens.so LD_BIND_NOW=1 /bin/bash
17:41 < interrobangd> bash: can't open namespace /proc/3837/ns/net: No such file or directory
17:41 < mawk> sudo LD_BIND_NOW=1 LD_PRELOAD=./changens.so TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/3386/ns/mnt:/proc/3386/ns/net ip a
17:41 < mawk> that's strange
17:41 < mawk> you have no net file in /proc/3386/ns ?
17:42 < BlueProtoman> Question.  I have a text file containing line-separated integers.  Each integer fits in 64 bits.  Is there something available that would compress this particular format very well?
17:42 < interrobangd> mawk, yes
17:42 < mawk> how is that possible
17:43 < mawk> then the network is shared inside your docker container ?
17:43 < mawk> if it's the case you don't have to join the network namespace
17:43 < mawk> because it doesn't exist
17:43 < mawk> if you kernel wasn't compiled with CONFIG_NET_NS it could be the case
17:43 < interrobangd> but with nsenter i can enter the net namespace
17:44 < mawk> nsenter does it like me, using the net file in /proc
17:44 < mawk> could you paste sudo ls -l /proc/3837/ns ?
17:44 < interrobangd> thats work, sudo LD_BIND_NOW=1 TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/3837/ns/net LD_PRELOAD=./changens.so /bin/bash
17:45 < mawk> you have the right version ?
17:45 < interrobangd> that not, sudo LD_BIND_NOW=1 TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/3837/ns/mnt:/proc/3837/ns/net LD_PRELOAD=./changens.so /bin/bash
17:45 < interrobangd> yes, i have
17:45 < interrobangd> for (char *ns = strtok(s, ":"); ns != NULL; ns = strtok(NULL, ":"))
17:46 < mawk> no net file in sudo ls -l ?
17:46 < mawk> what are the files then ?
17:47 < interrobangd> sudo ls -la /proc/3837/ns/ -> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Apr 18 17:39 net -> net:[4026532581
17:47 < mawk> ben the file exists
17:47 < interrobangd> damn ;)
17:48 < mawk> maybe there is a strange character in the path
17:48 < mawk> try typing it manually
17:49 < interrobangd> sudo LD_BIND_NOW=1 TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/3837/ns/mnt:/proc/3837/ns/net LD_PRELOAD=./changens.so /bin/bash
17:49 < interrobangd> bash: can't open namespace /proc/3837/ns/net: No such file or directory
17:50 < MrElendig> sidenote: stat/getfacl is more useful than ls
17:50 < interrobangd> sudo LD_BIND_NOW=1 TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/3837/ns/mnt:/proc/3837/ns/net LD_PRELOAD=./changens.so /bin/sh
17:50 < interrobangd> sh: can't open namespace /proc/3837/ns/net: No such file or directory
17:50 < interrobangd> you see, the shell i opened is trying to load the descriptor
17:51 < interrobangd> is that right?
17:51 < mawk> oh ok I see the problem interrobangd I think
17:51 < mawk> put mnt last
17:51 < mawk> and net first
17:51 < mawk> at the time you change to net, you changed the mount namespace already
17:51 < mawk> so it is not found
17:51 < mawk> let me fix this
17:52 < interrobangd> so i am currently at only one namespace
17:52 < interrobangd> not on net and mnt
17:52 < interrobangd> right?
17:53 < interrobangd> nope
17:53 < mawk> what ?
17:53 < mawk> you're nowhere, it crashes when it doesn't find the ns
17:53 < interrobangd> anyway, forget it
17:54 < mawk> sudo LD_BIND_NOW=1 TARGET_NAMESPACE=/proc/3837/ns/net:/proc/3837/ns/mnt LD_PRELOAD=./changens.so /bin/sh
17:54 < mawk> do it like that
17:54 < interrobangd> yes, then it works
17:54 < mawk> let me fix that
17:54 < interrobangd> *thumbs up*
18:00 < interrobangd> mawk, i have to go!
18:00 < interrobangd> mawk, i talk to you tomorrow!
18:00 < mawk> I made the fix
18:00 < mawk> you can pull/download again
18:00 < mawk> alright !
18:00 < interrobangd> same urlß
18:00 < interrobangd> ?
18:01 < mawk> yes
18:01 < mawk> http://gitlab.suut.in/sasha/changens
18:02 < litewq> where is coredump generated in centos?
18:02 < interrobangd> mawk, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, BUY!
18:02 < interrobangd> *BYE
18:03 < prussian> litewq: depends. do you have an abrt daemon? sysctl kernel.core_pattern should tell you all
18:03 < litewq> prussian: abrt daemon.. how do i check if i have one?
18:03 < prussian> core_pattern should tell you
18:03 < litewq> kernel.core_pattern = core
18:04 < prussian> then its made in working directory
18:04 < litewq> this is what i get when i execute sysctl kernel.core_pattern
18:04 < litewq> aah ok
18:06 < prussian> if you want to put them somewhere, like /var/crash/ or whatever. just change core_pattern to like /var/crash/%e-%t.core or whatever.
18:07 < litewq> prussian: which file we can change?
18:08 < kraftb> What is the reason debian switched from OpenOffice to Libre?
18:09 < dgurney> openoffice is basically dead, isn't it?
18:09 < prussian> litewq: to set kernel.core_pattern?
18:09 < kraftb> It is available from their website
18:09 < MrElendig> kraftb: because debian are not *that* insane as to use openoffice
18:10 < MrElendig> kraftb: openoffice is dead, all the devs fled to libreoffice, that is where all the work is happening
18:10 < kraftb> But Libre?? I mean I do not know the exact differences ...
18:10 < prussian> litewq: you can use /etc/sysctl.conf and just add something like kernel.core_pattern = your-path or optionally |your-abrt-daemon
18:10 < kraftb> who wonders :) ... "openoffice is dead" :)
18:10 < litewq> awesome prussian
18:11 < prussian> man 5 core tells you what patterns you can have
18:11 < prussian> like %e = executable name... etc
18:11 < kraftb> It was StarOffice --> OpenOffice --> LibreOffice ... I knew a company trying to deploy StarOffice at Austrians largest refinery "OMV" ... but they never suceeded.
18:11 < MrElendig> kraftb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org#History
18:12 < MrElendig> kraftb: openoffice still exists, but it is basically dead now
18:12 < offo> hi
18:12 < kraftb> I think I will install OpenOfice. I did so for the last half year and it lead to quite acceptable results ...
18:12 < MrElendig> kraftb: don't
18:12 < kraftb> This is the reason I asked
18:12 < offo> any good up-to-date resources as alternatives to red hat s rhcsa rapid course ?
18:12 < MrElendig> use libreoffice
18:12 < dgurney> why wouldn't you use libreoffice?
18:13 < MrElendig> there is absolutely zero sane reason to use openoffice now
18:13 < MrElendig> reasons*
18:13 < kraftb> I will try to deinstall it.
18:13 < jml2> offo, there's safarionline and it has redhat training content.. i tihnk there's a 30-day free trial..
18:13 < MrElendig> you should use libreoffice-fresh as a general rule
18:13 < kraftb> Cause I was quite fond of OpenOffice ... how to tell ... I didn't really see any differences or reasons for the transition.
18:14 < offo> thank you!!
18:14 < kraftb> Maybe they should both get merged again ... to UnixOffice
18:14 < kraftb> :)
18:14 < jml2> offo, i am using it for reviewing other IT things, not just redhat..
18:14 < MrElendig> kraftb: oracle trying to make it closed source was a really good reason for the fork
18:14 < jml2> offo, it has books and video ...
18:14 < MrElendig> also oracle deciding to not maintain/develop it anymore
18:15 < kraftb> yes. making something proprietary is an issue
18:15 < jml2> kraftb, it used to be called staroffice iirc, then it became openoffice
18:15 < kraftb> I have no insights into the details of every transition
18:15 < offo> jml2: is it indepth enough in comparison to that old 700pg large book?
18:15  * jml2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarOffice
18:15 < kraftb> But I know the transition OO --> LO was caused by oracle
18:16 < p3rL> how to block a ip in linux server
18:16 < p3rL> its using port 80
18:16 < jml2> offo, you'll be getting much more than anticipated-- you get access to entire IT book catalogs
18:16 < kraftb> star office isn't there any more. I guess even their website is offline
18:16 < jml2> offo, (I have an account)
18:16 < offo> im talkin about the Vid
18:16 < offo> er course vid
18:16 < offo> yeah safari is top quality material
18:17 < kraftb> maybe they will also shut down any work on open office ... But that would force us to use libre office ... I always like if there are multiple alternatives to an open source application.
18:17 < jml2> offo, there is lengthy video training courses (complete) for redhat,  the same author who creates the books.. it's some belgium guy .. i can get you the title if you're interested
18:17 < offo> i also wonder if merely 16 hours of material is indepth enough for rhcsa though
18:17 < p3rL> hello
18:17 < p3rL> how to block a ip
18:17 < p3rL> iptables
18:17 < gronke> Why is this "argument list too long?" cp -r endo-4LYXHDMZ/* endo1-4LYXHDMZ/
18:18 < Acheron> .
18:18 < offo> iptables -A bla bla -j DROP ?
18:18 < kraftb> well ... one leads to the next. I guess I stay with the last thing I had good experiences with.
18:18 < p3rL> not work
18:18 < offo> weird
18:18 < kraftb> OO ... and try to install LO
18:18 < p3rL> :~# iptables -L
18:18 < p3rL> Chain INPUT (policy ACCEPT)
18:18 < p3rL> target     prot opt source               destination
18:18 < p3rL> DROP       all  --  we.love.servers.at.ioflood.com  anywhere
18:18 < p3rL> DROP       tcp  --  we.love.servers.at.ioflood.com  anywhere             tcp dpt:http
18:18 < kraftb> de-install
18:18 < kraftb> thanks for the brainstorming
18:18 < ayecee> what a great name
18:19 < jml2> offo, https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/red-hat-rhcsatmrhce/9780134030999/   https://www.safaribooksonline.com/library/view/red-hat-certified/9780134723990/
18:19 < p3rL> how to block this ip
18:19 < p3rL> :|
18:19 < p3rL> it still connected to my server
18:20 < jml2> offo, how ready are you for the rhcsa?
18:22 < jml2> p3rL, the rule with "tcp" is never reached ... because you have "all" on the first one
18:23 < ayecee> jml2: that rule also drops, though
18:24 < ayecee> p3rL: what shows it's connected?
18:27 < Jenz> Yay, \[{}]$$åæø\}]`˛ I can type keys again! :D
18:28 < JimBuntu> Jenz, what did you end up needing to do?
18:30 < Jenz> JimBuntu, https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.6/doc/xorg-docs/input/XKB-Config.html#id2518918, I had to set `key to chose 3rd level` to Left alt
18:30 < JimBuntu> Thanks Jenz that may prove handy to know.
18:30 < Jenz> Np, hope it may help others in need, took me a good few hours to figure..
18:31 < offo> jml2: idk
18:31 < offo> had some very basic linux experience years ago then decided to use it as my main OS 6ish months ago
18:31 < offo> finishin web dev college next month
18:31 < jml2> offo, are you able to bypass the redhat system to an init-rescue prompt?
18:31 < offo> No.
18:31 < offo> Iv never used redhat
18:31 < jml2> offo, then you're not ready lol
18:32 < offo> Ofc im not ready
18:32 < offo> Lookin for resources to Learn
18:32 < MrElendig> offo: https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-linux-linuxfoundationx-lfs101x-1
18:33 < offo> Im not --that-- bad
18:33 < offo> atleast i Think
18:36 < royal_screwup21> I'm trying to figure out how much of free ram is available on my system. I hit "free" and here's the output: https://thepasteb.in/p/nZhl17zPyMKtY What value specifically should I be looking at?
18:37 < offo> hmm https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/6/html/installation_guide/ is this good supplementary material to any courses i might take
18:37 < jml2> offo, there is of course things like "udemy" but it will not be imho not as anything close you can get with safarionline
18:37 < offo> ok. Thx then
18:38 < jml2> offo, you can obtain rh for 50 $ with the workstation subscription -- this is DIY help when there is a problem, but you'll have access to their online Q&A and their package repositories
18:38 < offo> link ?
18:38 < offo> oh
18:38 < offo> you mean the distro..
18:38 < jml2> offo, yes, so you can practice whatever package repo commands with rh...
18:39 < jml2> offo, but the exam is offline of course, it is a "practical" exam..
18:39 < offo> yea
18:39 < offo> ive found it only for 179 :/
18:40 < jml2> offo, you're only allowed whats in the system..  --- I think possibly there might be the package manager commands to work in the exam, im not sure... but you wont have web access to http sites for help
18:40 < jml2> offo, you'll have access to local manpages and the sort of thing (/usr/share/doc/*)
18:40 < offo> Thats ok
18:40 < offo> yea im familiar with manpages
18:41 < offo> one thing im pretty sure im not good at is bash scripts virtualizaiton and uh lvm
18:41 < offo> er *competent
18:42 < jml2> offo, this one might be helpful it has high ratings, https://www.udemy.com/linux-academy-red-hat-certified-systems-administrator-prep/#curriculum
18:42 < kazdax> okay installing debian on my l;aptop
18:42 < kazdax> should igo for kde or xfce ?
18:42 < dgurney> which one do you like?
18:42 < kazdax> i have troed kde not xfce
18:43 < offo> jml2: do you have experience with red hat?
18:43 < offo> 10 euros seems almost too good to be true honestly and it makes me paranoid :\
18:43 < dgurney> so either you use what you're familiar with, or have a look at something new
18:43 < dgurney> it's completely up to you
18:43 < kazdax> okay then kde it is
18:43 < jml2> offo, you'll need to know about libvirt things
18:44 < jml2> offo, I'm a bit familiar with the rhcsa curriculum
18:44 < kazdax> does KDE take to much reasources i have 6 gigs to spare and an i5
18:45 < dgurney> KDE doesn't take much resources thesedays
18:45 < kazdax> cool
18:45 < kazdax> gnome is to old school ?
18:45 < offo> jml2: cool, anything else?
18:45 < jml2> offo, I couldnt take the rh prior years because there was no test center near where i live, however this changed recently like a year or two ago, maybe I might decide to do it...
18:45 < dgurney> no, gnome 3 is entirely different from the old school 2
18:46 < dgurney> MATE is the continuation of gnome 2
18:46 < kazdax> i see
18:46 < offo> ohh prerequisites linux lpic
18:46 < offo> guess i should take that first :P
18:47 < jml2> offo, you should do something like a ccna, that will get you good with networking
18:48 < offo> er... so
18:48 < offo> lpic + ccna then rhcsa?
18:49 < NetTerminalGene> is dll only windows stuff?
18:50 < Kremator> NetTerminalGene, yes
18:50 < revel> NetTerminalGene: Yes. There's similar things, but DLLs specifically are just for Windows.
18:51 < NetTerminalGene> ok
18:52 < revel> I'm only aware of shared objects (.so), I guess, but there's probably other implementations out there as well.
18:52 < jml2> offo, ccna will keep you busy for 6 months :)
18:52 < offo> welp im naive
18:52 < hendrix> kazdax: if you want all the bells and whistles, kde is good choice, if you want something that is relatively small, simple, lightweight, xfce is good choice
18:52 < offo> thot i could learn enough in about 3-4 months
18:53 < pengin> hey guys, I'm trying to read more about how/when to use the `some_command < $file` command structure. I'm not sure what term to use to google for more info though, could someone point me in the right direction?
18:54 < Jenz> What shell are you in?
18:54 < pengin> bash
18:54 < offo> bash redirection?
18:54 < Jenz> Yeah that
18:55 < Jenz> Or bash output (or io) redirection
18:55 < revel> I'm pretty sure it's about the same as `cat $file | some_command`
18:55 < jhaenchen> it's redirecting stdout to a file
18:55 < barometz> https://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/io-redirection.html is a place to start, if a little unstructured
18:55 < pengin> gotcha, thanks. I'm familiar with redirection in terms of > or >> but < is still a bit mysterious to me
18:55 < barometz> stdin from a file, inthe case of <
18:55 < jhaenchen> pengin: also look up how to redirect stderr while you're at it
18:55 < jhaenchen> bc that's useful for this topic
18:56 < pengin> will do. thanks all
18:56 < kazdax> yea definatly going for KDE because i have the hardware for it
18:56 < revel> jhaenchen: What? You got < and > mixed up?
18:57 < kazdax> umm anyone here into exploiting code ?
18:57 < kazdax> LFS sounds like a nice idea
18:57 < revel> Since < redirects the contents of the file to the stdin of whatever you execute.
18:57 < MrElendig> most commands can read files just fine
18:57 < MrElendig> so in 99% of the cases you don't need cat |  or <
18:57 < revel> MrElendig: I've discovered some that don't, which are fun.
18:58 < dgurney> lfs is a nice experiment, but unless you have a very special usecase or extraordinary determination, it's not really worth using as your daily distro
18:58 < jhaenchen> revel: yeah, sry i'm distracted
18:58 < MrElendig> pengin: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide
18:59 < revel> Has options to read from predefined files or stdin, but not from just -f /path/to/file
18:59 < revel> Or just /path/to/file either.
18:59 < jubalh> can someone recommend a simple/small linux music player that can also delete the files from disk?
19:00 < pengin> I'm familiar with the other forms of redirection but for some reason < was always a gap in my knowledge. Found this which seems like a useful bookmark: http://www.catonmat.net/download/bash-redirections-cheat-sheet.pdf
19:00 < MrElendig> pengin: see my link, it is way better
19:00 < pengin> MrElendig: I'll give it a browse, thanks
19:02 < NGC3982> im noticing that lm-sensors doesnt find anything good (cpu and (probably) north bridge temp) on my new server system. is there anything i can do to actually see if i actually reach all the sensors on the machine?
19:02 < NGC3982> it doesnt even get pwm values even with pwm-only fan connectors.
19:02 < MrElendig> NGC3982: what hardware is it?
19:02 < kazdax> hey i have a question
19:02 < NGC3982> MrElendig: let's see if i can find out..
19:02 < kazdax> my debian is almost complete but its stuck on xserver-xorg-legacy configuration
19:02 < MrElendig> NGC3982: for some you need out of tree modules, for others they simply doesn't expose it to the os at all
19:02 < kazdax> does that take time ?
19:02 < NGC3982> MrElendig: i see.
19:03 < MrElendig> NGC3982: I assume you have gone trough sensors-detect
19:03 < NGC3982> yes
19:04 < rosa> Are there any other working single file C mid file processors that are not as obfuscated asf (literally) as this http://www.archduke.org/midi/mid2asc.c is
19:05 < NGC3982> MrElendig: there we go. intel DP55WB.
19:05 < rosa> By the way this is a hint for you: the "Never Use Eval" saying is not true
19:06 < Kremator> rosa, isnt that for JS?
19:06 < rosa> eval should always be used for self generating code
19:07 < Kremator> does Jquery uses eval internally?
19:07 < Jenz> MrElendig: Are you quite a big name in the Arch linux community, or am i mixing up with something else?
19:07 < o|0o^|> what in tarnation is eval?
19:07 < MrElendig> NGC3982: first hit on ddg: https://github.com/groeck/lm-sensors/blob/master/configs/Intel/DP55WB.conf
19:07 < rosa> For example it can generate if-else loops that if typed manually could end up lines long depending on what that loop is doing
19:07 < MrElendig> seems that it should work?
19:08 < offo> what in tarnation )))))
19:08 < NGC3982> MrElendig: cool. what's a ddg?
19:08 < rosa> AND it can dynamically generate them and all kinds of stuff
19:08 < MrElendig> check if you actually probed the i2c bus
19:08 < MrElendig> NGC3982: duckduckgo
19:08 < rosa> also think of eval as sending a string directly to bash as input to execute
19:08 < NGC3982> MrElendig: ill retry sensors-detect and make sure i tested all of them
19:09 < rosa> but is able to be executed inside the context of the script without producing a sub shell
19:09 < rosa> can even generate functions
19:10 < kazdax> my debian installatin failed at the end :(
19:10 < kazdax> should itry PXE ?
19:11 < NGC3982> MrElendig: rerunning sensors-detect and asking it to probe everything did no difference.
19:11 < dannylee> :)
19:11 < rosa> Almost this entire script is dynamically self generated using eval and some templates https://github.com/mgood7123/UPM/blob/master/UPM
19:12 < rosa> Just ignore lines 0 to 54 lol
19:12 < MrElendig> check the log, see if it found that chip at all
19:12 < rosa> 28 to 54*
19:14 < NGC3982> Apr 18 19:09:16 milda kernel: [937159.392106] adt7475 12-002c: Optional features: in0 in4 fan4 pwm2
19:14 < NGC3982> hm..
19:14 < NGC3982> sure, its optional and that's nice. but ..i want it.
19:14 < NGC3982> :(.
19:23 < NGC3982> MrElendig: well, that seems to indicate that i have the sensors good and proper, but that lm-sensors does not include them. i re-tried sensors-detect as root again, and made sure that i (yet again) scanned everything. afaik, syslog is the ¨log¨ for the sensors-detect command.
19:26 < Trel> When composing an email message in Pine/Alpine, is there any way to choose/change the SMTP server or am I restricted to the default and anything a role may have overridden?
19:26 < SkunkyFone> Trel: pretty sure you can't pick at send time
19:32 < kazdax> this is my secound try at installing debian
19:32 < kazdax> if this dosnt work out ..should i go for Opensuse or fedora ?
19:33 < Frith> kazdax: Third time's the charm!
19:33 < kazdax> right ..this time ill check to see if the MD5 hash is correct
19:33 < kazdax> if it fails right now
19:33 < kazdax> but it failed at the installation part
19:33 < kazdax> right at the end of xserver-xorg-legacy
19:33 < kazdax> almost 98 percent done with the installation
19:34 < kazdax> dosnt know what went wrong ..that time i choose to install both xfce and kde ..this time only installating kde
19:34 < kazdax> maybe that might change things ohh and i dint format the drive :P..could be that
19:35 < kazdax> i dont know if i need to be 33 and still be interested in computers
19:35 < kazdax> :O
19:35 < kazdax> o well ..lets see if it works out
19:37 < Frith> Why are you changing the OS?
19:38 < kazdax> i dont have a windows original OS and its using some pirated windows
19:38 < kazdax> i rather use linux and in the process learn how to set it up to do everything it can do
19:38 < kazdax> i guess i have multiple reasons
19:38 < paddy|> :)
19:39 < Frith> Well, there you go.  That's why you need to be interested in computers even at 33. :)
19:39 < NGC3982> MrElendig: i no longer have any idea of what im doing.
19:40 < kazdax> i guess that young 15 year old programmer will never die as far as cool digital things exist
19:40 < kazdax> just hope in the future we find a way to revive our dead selfs back to life
19:40 < kazdax> more digital mania for us
19:40 < gump> what is the most efficient way to delete a large number of files on NFS?
19:41 < MrElendig> rm is as efficient as you will get
19:42 < Frith> kazdax: I'm also a huge Greg Egan fan. :)
19:42 < MrElendig> not doing it over nfs can help in some cases
19:44 < Frith> You can also encrypt the drive and throw away the key.
19:44 < Frith> (Hardware level lock, that is)
19:47 < aBound> Howdy doo. :P
19:47 < paddy|> do dooo!
19:48 < aBound> Doo doo doowee!
19:48 < aBound> Do doo dowee**
19:48 < aBound> I never knew vscode is pretty nice for a modern text editor.
19:50 < paddy|> "interesting"
19:50 < marktr> Is hating on Microsoft still a thing around here? Can I do that?
19:51 < dgurney> you can, but you'll probably look childish doing it
19:51 < koala_man> marktr: just as long as it's linux related
19:52 < aBound> One thing I disliked is Ubuntu 16.04 uses Python 2 by default so it was somewhat of a pain configuring VSCode for Python 3.
19:52 < aBound> But heck, I got it working.
19:53 < aBound> Seems Microsoft is using Linux on there Azure platform: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/04/microsoft-linux-custom-kernel-azure-sphere
19:56 < ||JD||> you don't say?
19:57 < paddy|> dual booting sucks. i want to do something on the other os all the time
19:58 < dgurney> so do something on the other os all the time then
19:58 < aBound> Noooo... :P
19:58 < aBound> I'd figure people would say just use a VM.
19:58 < dgurney> that's not a bad idea, yes
19:58 < paddy|> or a docker box
19:59 < aBound> Depending on the performance might not run as smoothly as it's native counterpart.
19:59 < paddy|> in some situations the guest runs faster
20:00 < Psi-Jack> aBound: Yeah,. vscode is about the only thing from microsoft I have some respect for. I just want to know how they made electron run so good.. Though, it is memory heavy just like any other electron app.
20:02 < aBound> Psi-Jack, No doubt I like the aspect where I don't have to do to much trying to set it up and it's a modern the Python plugin seems good as well.
20:02 < djph> Psi-Jack: they do have AD as well ... which is a little nicer than raw LDAP
20:02 < Psi-Jack> No, I much prefer LDAP to AD any day.
20:02 < o|0o^|> look at you three, MS fan club over here
20:03 < aBound> The less it takes to setup the better in my mind even though Sublime Text exist too.
20:03 < dgurney> they also have this really neat OS where you get all PC titles on release day called Windows
20:03 < dgurney> you may have heard of it before
20:03 < dgurney> *game titles
20:03 < Psi-Jack> aBound: The Platform IO stuff was pretty good as well. Platform IO on Atom was powerful, but slow and intensive.
20:04 < djph> Psi-Jack: I'm bad at both, so :|
20:04 < Psi-Jack> I'm doing LDAP stuff now, LOL
20:04 < Psi-Jack> Well, betweem trying to figure out what the heck's broken with all these code block plugins for wordpress, driving me nuts.
20:05 < aBound> Psi-Jack, I think due to Microsoft has the backing of veteran developers whereas Atom doesn't.
20:05 < o|0o^|> i'm netbiosing in my sleep
20:05 < aBound> Isn't Atom built by GitHub.
20:06 < djph> Psi-Jack: hehe, I mean, I've done a few things with openldap / phpldapadmin; but still, my grasp of it is quite light
20:06 < aBound> Wikipedia cites Atom as having between 325MBs to 430MBs in file size that's crazy.
20:06 < Jenz> Atom — electron, ew
20:06 < Psi-Jack> aBound: Yes
20:07 < Psi-Jack> Jenz: Not sure if Atom is electron. vscode I know is.
20:07 < Jenz> Atom is electron
20:07 < Psi-Jack> djph: Sad thing, phpldapadmin hasn't had a code commit in years.
20:07 < aBound> Psi-Jack, Says Electron on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_(text_editor)
20:08 < aBound> Differences in file sizes too.
20:09 < Psi-Jack> Heh.
20:09 < Psi-Jack> I'm beginning to like Java more than Electron.
20:10 < paddy|> this is not ##programming
20:10 < revel> Thanks for the info.
20:10 < o|0o^|> lol
20:10 < paddy|> :D
20:11 < Jenz> Psi-Jack: Java has nothing in common with electron
20:11 < aBound> Teehee.
20:11 < Psi-Jack> They both use a crapload of memory, both commonly used.
20:12 < aBound> Well, I'm hoping they release a spinoff for Unity since the memory leaks reside within Gnome.
20:12 < Psi-Jack> I hope they never pump out anything Unity based ever again!
20:12 < aBound> Oh noes... :P
20:13 < aBound> I may switch to Ubuntu Budgie.
20:13 < djph> Psi-Jack: but it did what I needed it to do
20:13 < aBound> I don't like Gnome Shell.
20:13 < acresearch> people where can i go to talk about desktop enviroments?
20:13 < acresearch> is there a dedicated channel?
20:14 < Psi-Jack> acresearch: Welcome to ##linux
20:14 < revel> acresearch: A specific one or in general? And for ricing?
20:14 < jim> acresearch, well,,, there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in looking for channels on the Freenode irc net. To start, /msg alis help
20:14 < paddy|> on facebook this conversation about likes and dislikes would be better structured
20:14 < revel> I think there's ##rice, and if it's just about i.e GNOME3, then whatever the gnome channel is should be fine.
20:14 < Psi-Jack> heh
20:14  * aBound hits the "like" button
20:14  * revel hits the "wow" button
20:15 < Psi-Jack> acresearch: There are specific channels about specific things. ##linux covers the general consensus of GNU/Linux, which includes all desktop environments.
20:15  * aBound eat your heart out coffee :P
20:17 < Pentode> new rule, if you _say_ coffee you are buying
20:18  * jim was a peets fan
20:19 < aBound> Pentode, I will buy the coffee as long as we code. :P
20:19 < Pentode> ive heard of it
20:19 < Pentode> is it really that great?
20:19 < jim> it's pretty good, it's high-end
20:19 < triceratux> be sure to say it clearly is all http://patriotretort.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Starbucks-Outrage-Junkies.jpg
20:20 < Pentode> aBound, my editor is always open ;p
20:20  * aBound Pentode woo :P
20:20 < aBound> Editors opened.
20:21 < Pentode> ive been considering switching to qt.
20:21 < Pentode> :-\
20:22 < aBound> Qt development oh noes...
20:22 < acresearch> Psi-Jack: thanks
20:22 < aBound> Join the ranks of the engineers.
20:22 < Pentode> i dunno. it's been a really bad day, really.
20:23 < acresearch> so i have been in-between xfce and gnome, and i am not sure which one to settle for. both of them have + and - points but i just can't make up my mind :-(
20:23 < Pentode> my oscilloscope broke and ive been sitting here all night and all day trying to figure out what went wrong.
20:23 < revel> Flip a coin.
20:23 < revel> If it lands on the side, then get sway :D
20:23 < Pentode> well i vote xfce
20:23 < Pentode> cus xfce ;)
20:24 < acresearch> Pentode: the low ram and customisability of xfce is very attractive
20:24 < revel> It's what I use as well.
20:24 < Pentode> acresearch, it really is swell.
20:24 < Pentode> ive been using it since forever
20:24 < MrElendig> Pentode: when in doubt, always messure the voltage between your "ground" and actual ground
20:24 < MrElendig> :p
20:24 < triceratux> distros go with gnome3 because theyre trying to be linuxy. they go with xfce because theyre trying to be usable
20:25 < MrElendig> Pentode: failure to do so can lead to fun things
20:25 < Pentode> MrElendig, lol
20:25 < Pentode> rookie mistake ;p
20:25 < MrElendig> differential probes ftw!
20:25 < Pentode> i really need a new one. it's an ancient tektronix boat anchor
20:25 < MrElendig> Pentode: new siglent looks nice
20:26 < Pentode> and the horizontal sweep / triggering circuitry is where the problem is and it's about as complex as analog gets ;p
20:26 < MrElendig> I'm sad that shipping to where I live cost a billion, else I would pick up an analog one too
20:26 < MrElendig> either a old high end or those new cheap ones
20:26 < Pentode> yeah i was hoping to win a free one since keysight was doing another give away thing
20:26 < Pentode> but that wont happen ;p
20:27 < Pentode> sux
20:27 < MrElendig> I tried to get into that, but keysight went "lol you are not in australia"
20:27 < Pentode> aw
20:27 < kazdax> hooray
20:28 < aBound> I am off, swoosh... :P
20:28 < kazdax> finally installed debian
20:28 < dgurney> cool
20:28 < kazdax> hexchat a good IRC client ?
20:28 < MrElendig> my 1054z will have to do for some time still
20:28 < dgurney> yes
20:28 < ayecee> yes
20:28 < marktr> kazdax: Quassel is where it's at
20:28 < MrElendig> kazdax: not really, but it is one of the less bad gui ones
20:28 < dgurney> again, try all options, see which one you like the best
20:28 < kazdax> command line ones are better ?
20:28 < marktr> kazdax: Or Weechat if you're a TUI guy
20:28 < MrElendig> (really needs to be ported to gtk3 already....)
20:28 < Pentode> MrElendig, thats not a bad scope really. i was going to get one of those
20:28 < dgurney> <dgurney> again, try all options, see which one you like the best
20:29 < MrElendig> Pentode: decoding is 100% useless though
20:29 < kazdax> right
20:29 < MrElendig> same is the fft
20:29 < kazdax> need to experiment
20:29 < onla> do you have a bouncer to go with hexchat
20:29 < kazdax> what about Virtual Box ..is it free on linux ?
20:29 < ayecee> yes
20:29 < kazdax> bouncer i dont think so
20:29 < marktr> It's free everywhere
20:29 < kazdax> cool
20:29 < MrElendig> kazdax: if the host is gnu/linux then use qemu/kvm
20:29 < kazdax> yes it is gnu
20:29 < marktr> MrElendig: Curious, what's wrong with VBox?
20:29 < kazdax> okay
20:29 < MrElendig> unless you need the 3d of vbox
20:30 < kazdax> wait int he beginning ti said if i wanted to install with kvm or was that kvl ?
20:30 < MrElendig> marktr: *much* slower, buggy as heck uefi support
20:30 < marktr> MrElendig: Huh, news to me. Thanks!
20:30 < kazdax> beginning of installing debian
20:30 < MrElendig> marktr: requires non-free addons for useable usb support
20:30 < kazdax> it asked if i wanted to format with kvm i think
20:30 < marktr> kazdax: LVM maybe?
20:30 < kazdax> ya lvm
20:30 < onla> if I didn't have a 24/7 irc, I would register to riot.im and then maybe install quaternion for matrix client and use that to connect to irc for 24/7 connection https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now.html
20:31 < MrElendig> if you use matrix you lose a lot of irc features
20:31 < phogg> onla: I dunno, matrix seems flaky
20:31 < onla> which one?
20:31 < MrElendig> anything ircv3 as a start
20:31 < marktr> If you need 24/7 IRC spin up like a free tier EC2 instance and install quassel-core and then get the client on whatever device
20:31 < onla> what's there for example
20:32 < onla> in ircv3
20:32 < phogg> marktr: or just by bouncer services from somewhere. Assuming people still offer that kind of thing
20:32 < MrElendig> account-notify, extended-join, multi-prefix etc
20:32 < phogg> s/by/buy/
20:32 < onla> marktr: that sounds more advanced than the matrix way. Although I guess not too advanced for a regular debian user
20:33 < onla> MrElendig: ok, lot of unneeded features for a random ircer :p
20:33 < Dr_Coke> triceratux
20:33 < Dr_Coke> what's happening man
20:33 < marktr> onla: It's pretty straightforward. Install and it configures itself with SSL, make sure you can hit that port, and then open the client and it handles the rest
20:34 < MrElendig> they make life much simpler
20:34 < Dr_Coke> Hi rindolf
20:35 < rindolf> Dr_Coke: hi
20:39 < kazdax> hold on a sec
20:39 < kazdax> my user isnt part of the root admin ?
20:39 < kazdax> how do i acesss the admin ?
20:39 < kazdax> if i want to do sudo something
20:39 < kazdax> it says i am not registered as a sudeor
20:40 < phogg> kazdax: if you know the root password just use su
20:40 < dgurney> I think you have to be in the sudo group in debian
20:40 < MrElendig> or just add your user explicitly to sudoers
20:40 < Dr_Coke> You hear what nvidias trying to do?
20:40 < dgurney> what, GPP? or something else
20:40 < MrElendig> Dr_Coke: take over the world?
20:40 < phogg> dgurney: you don't *have* to but the default sudoers file does have an entry for that
20:40 < kazdax> thanks
20:41 < dgurney> yes, but on a default installation you do
20:41 < phogg> MrElendig: *try* to take over the world. (Same thing they do every year).
20:41 < phogg> dgurney: in a default installation you can still just add yourself to sudoers as usual
20:42 < phogg> adding a group or modifying a file, either way will grant you permission
20:42 < dgurney> I know, but if you do absolutely nothing, you need to be in the sudo group
20:42 < Dr_Coke> MrElendig make pc makers like asus acer etc only use their graphics cards
20:42 < Dr_Coke> by making then sign a deal
20:42 < phogg> dgurney: but adding yourself to that group is not doing nothing. That's my point.
20:42 < MrElendig> Dr_Coke: that is nothing new, and amd have done that too
20:43 < MrElendig> Dr_Coke: so have intel
20:43 < phogg> So have Microsoft
20:43 < dgurney> oh, fine
20:43 < MrElendig> that's basically been happening for the past 20 years
20:43 < Dr_Coke> MrElendig I never AMD had ever done it
20:43 < Dr_Coke> I knew intel had
20:43 < dgurney> no matter what company you look at, they've all done something shady in the past
20:44 < MrElendig> Dr_Coke: amd have done it with certain model series
20:44 < Dr_Coke> phogg Microsoft most definitely have
20:44 < Dr_Coke> you're right
20:44 < MrElendig> Dr_Coke: and back in the K6 days and earlier they did it for all the products of some hw makers
20:45 < Dr_Coke> MrElendig long live AMD
20:45 < MrElendig> they tried to make a deal with compaq for them to only us K6, but compaq decided to not honour the deal
20:45 < Dr_Coke> I never knew about that
20:45 < fendur> that's just economics
20:46 < Dr_Coke> seems like monopolonics
20:46 < MrElendig> that was around the days when the pentium mmx was discontinued
20:47 < Dr_Coke> MrElendig intel and nvidia have a history of slugging the guts out of consumer price wise
20:47 < MrElendig> compaq decided that they wanted to offer higher priced machines too so they basically ignored their deal with amd
20:48 < phogg> must be nice to be in a business where the problem is that you just can't keep up with the volume of demand for your product
20:48 < MrElendig> sidenote: these nvidia deals are not the biggest reason for why you generally don't see amd chips
20:48 < Frith> phogg: Helps if the barrier to enter that business is exceedingly high as well.
20:49 < MrElendig> phogg: both amd and nvidia are losing a lot of money on the lack of ram production, so it is not as nice as it seems
20:49 < Frith> With a fab costing well north of a billion, it's a pretty big bet to get into.
20:50 < MrElendig> amds exclusive fab deal have bitten them in the arse too
20:50 < MrElendig> and that won't change until 2023
20:52 < Psilocyber> anyone successfully using startech USB 3.0 PCIe cards in Ubuntu or Centos (any version)?
20:52 < MrElendig> which chip do they use?
20:52 < MrElendig> and since they claim linux support, someone probably has, yes
20:53 < MrElendig> and just which model card is it, and what is *your* problem with it?
20:54 < spreeuw> still tempting to buy intel
20:55 < spreeuw> for my horrible single thread software
20:55 < spreeuw> (win10 games)
20:55 < Dr_Coke> lol true
20:55 < spreeuw> its like 30% faster
20:55 < spreeuw> single thread
20:55 < MrElendig> for raw performance intel often wins in multithreaded tasks too even with 2/4 fewer cores
20:55 < spreeuw> and the newest ryzen didnt really dent it yet
20:56 < o|0o^|> i'd rather have a power9
20:56  * MrElendig is waiting for ram prices and zen2
20:56 < MrElendig> and whatever intel comes up with to compete against the zen2
20:57 < spreeuw> todays hardware is so insanely fast though, these are luxury problems
20:57 < MrElendig> depends on use case
20:57 < spreeuw> such lovely games too :D
20:57 < MrElendig> still no hardware really powerfull enough for 4k gaming and vr
20:58 < dgurney> huh
20:58 < spreeuw> a doubling of speed should help
20:58 < spreeuw> think we have a doubling in 10 years
20:58 < dgurney> and well, I'll likely go ryzen for my next computer, but that'll be many years in the future
20:58 < spreeuw> cpu single thread just doubled in 10 years
20:59 < spreeuw> roughly
20:59 < MrElendig> a bit more than doubled since 10 years ago
20:59 < spreeuw> its nice for Arma III
20:59 < spreeuw> sweet game
20:59 < spreeuw> cant wait for the next
21:00 < MrElendig> a 100€ ryzen is more than double the performance than the athlon x2's of 10 years ago
21:00 < Dagmar> A fair bit more than double
21:01 < o|0o^|> whats the highest clock speed from a stock CPU today?
21:01 < mawk> ifup insists on setting my IPv6 addresses as deprecated
21:01 < mawk> even when I specify preferred-lifetime forever
21:01 < mawk> also dhclient clears every IPv6 address from the interface when I ask for prefix delegation
21:01 < MrElendig> mawk: got to love badly maintained distro invented network scripts :p
21:01 < mawk> everything is going wrong
21:01 < mawk> :(
21:04 < ||JD||> o|0o^|: probably some P4 from early 2000s
21:05 < kazdax> okay where would my flash drive be located on linux ?
21:05 < kazdax> i want to use the mv command to move a directory into my home directory
21:05 < fury> if i were to make a media player with embedded speakers with linux, what do i do about the custom eq for the built-in speakers? like, my old way of thinking is stuck in microcontrollers where there's a chip for everything - one for bluetooth decoding, one for MP3 decoding, one for DSP to make the speakers sound good, etc. if i just use an application processor with enough gigglehertz can i just make all that in software, or what?
21:05 < dgurney> kazdax, look at the lsblk output
21:06 < Dagmar> fury: ALSA
21:09 < kazdax> okay so its in sdb
21:10 < fury> Dagmar: been trying to read up on that and all my googling seems to get lost among the ones doing DAW stuff, they're artists or professional sound editors and whatnot that want to adjust prerecorded tracks..can i tell alsa to do filters and limiters and eq and agc and whatnot in real time, changing on the fly? (like, might have different adjustments at different volume levels or whatever)
21:11 < fury> i found one called ecasound that seems to be able to do it on the fly but then i can't adjust it without just stopping the whole thing and starting it again
21:12 < fury> er, "real time" as in on whatever sound's happening on the system, i mean. and on the fly adjustments meaning changing how much it adjusts some filter by, without having to turn off all the filters and turn them back on with a new configuration...that thing seems to be the hardest to do for whatever reason
21:12 < kazdax> cool i was able to use cp command :D
21:12 < kazdax> i am getting a hang of this
21:13 < kazdax> okay i wont disturb you guys any futher
21:13 < kazdax> just tell me a good place to learn the basics of linux commands so i can do normal operations like what idid right now and similer simple things
21:13 < TheWild> hello
21:13 < ayecee> kazdax: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596154493.do
21:14 < stefycute> Google ryans tutorial
21:14 < stefycute> kazdax
21:14 < triceratux> kazdax: http://www.faqs.org/docs/lnag/lnag_commands.html
21:16 < TheWild> my old abused laptop became having problems with booting up. Either the display is not showing anything, no backlight; display is not showing anything, but backlight blinks once; BIOS screen appears for a while then everything goes black etc.
21:17 < TheWild> Sometimes I need to restart it 10-20 times, but after it "kicks in", I mean goes into loading the system, everything is fine.
21:17 < Rev_Willie> have you tried hooking it to an external monitor?
21:17 < TheWild> so what is this? Bad motherboard?
21:19 < kishore96> TheWild:  Might be a disply issue, like Rev_Willie suggested.
21:19 < kishore96> *display
21:19 < fendur> agree. that's an easy way to rule some things out
21:20 < TheWild> if it was just a display, I would still see the diode of storage blinking meaning it is loading the system. When it boots badly, it just plays "dead".
21:21 < TheWild> I checked RAM and it's not damaged.
21:30 < DF3D2> used gparted to copy the ~100MiB boot partition of a windows 7 install, the issue I have of course is i'm trying to go from a 1TB hdd to a 256GB ssd for my cousin. I went ahead and tried to resize the windows partition to 238.8MiB free which matched what the ssd had unallocated however it resulted in some error near 100%, so I manually created the partition on the SSD and mounted the windows partition and i'm using rsync to copy everything over, should
21:30 < DF3D2> this likely result in a working windows install? I'm thinking yes...
21:30 < DF3D2> sorry 238.8GiB
21:31 < DF3D2> Just realized I probably need to copy the MBR manually
21:38 < Combined2857> Hi, i'm trying to create a .desktop file that will open 2 bash windows but I fail. Here is the code replaced with an easy "echo hello" command.  https://pastebin.com/imVTJjcJ   The funny thing is that if you try to alter the second "echo hello" (inside the second bash command) to something that will produce a mistake (e.g. remove the  echo and just leave hello as the command) then it actually RUNS and creates two windows ! How must I change
21:38 < Combined2857> this so it will run correct code while opening two bash shells ?
21:41 < `ajven> Hello, looking for some way to monitor top 10 most overloading cpu process on server with login to file
21:41 < `ajven> any idea
21:42 < ||JD||> ps + sort + head will do it
21:43 < ||JD||> actually I think ps has a sort switch, check the man
21:45 < izaoeuoisdf> How to do this:
21:45 < izaoeuoisdf> IF myscreen exists THEN screen -r myscreen ELSE screen -S myscreen python dothis.py
21:45 < izaoeuoisdf> i don't know how to test if a screen is already existing and detached
21:49 < WeiJunLi> i have a text like 'no errors found' and other 'Errors found' - what's the best grep options to get only the second one?
21:50 < WeiJunLi> right now I'm finding both, including the first one with 'No'
21:50 < fendur> "^Errors found"
21:50 < fendur> as in, use regular expressions
21:55 < granis> if both of the strings are in the middle of the text and you can't differentiate them by case, you could do something like .. | grep "errors found" | grep -v "no errors found"
21:56 < granis> othwerwise, as fendur said.
21:58 < fendur> shouldn't need the middle  grep "errors found" right granis? In other words the inverted search should do it all.
21:59 < fendur> assuming we have all the information about the task...
21:59 < revel> Can't you just do `grep -e "[^(no )]errors found"`?
21:59 < granis> fendur, depends if there is other lines with irrelevant data or not (I assumed something like a log file with more stuff than just the errors)
22:00 < fendur> granis: agree
22:00 < granis> fendur, but if not, sure.
22:30 < stiction> Hi
22:30 < Vexyl> I have a basic arch linux installation with xfce4 installed, how would I set it up to have 2 x sessions at the same time for different users? Right now it says "Server is already active for display 0" when using `startxfce4` on 2nd user.
22:35 < xamithan> does startxfce4 -- :1 not work?
22:36 < xamithan> I guess it would depend on what login manager you use too
22:45 < Vexyl> xamithan: how would I check what my login manager is called?
22:50 < xamithan> If you do a systemctl status lightdm is it active?  or gdm|kdm etc.
22:53 < xamithan> Either way the Xinit arch wiki page should help as the starxfce4 is just a wrapper: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xinit
22:54 < kazdax> so much to do
22:54 < kazdax> so much to do
22:54 < kazdax> sorry if i am kinda a pest
22:54 < kazdax> because i can be like one
22:54 < kazdax> got so much to learn tho
22:55 < kazdax> now that linux has become my go to OS and i have left windows behind
22:55 < kazdax> i just have to see if i can use qeum as desired
22:55 < o|0o^|> qemu?
22:55 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: quem? qemu?
22:55 < kazdax> qemu
22:55 < kazdax> sorry
22:55 < mawk> firejail says "error: seccomp already enabled"
22:55 < mawk> who does that ? systemd ?
22:55 < Psi-Jack> What's your intended use?
22:55 < o|0o^|> i'llnever forgive you
22:56 < kazdax> i have this book called hacking the art of exploitation
22:56 < kazdax> i want to run the ISO that comes with it
22:56 < Psi-Jack> Oh...
22:56 < kazdax> its an old ubuntu with source code that i use with the book
22:56 < xamithan> I thought that book used gentoo
22:56 < kazdax> no it uses ubuntu
22:57 < kazdax> really old one ..  i think the book was writting in 2009
22:57 < kazdax> 2008
22:57 < kazdax> but revision 2009
22:58 < kazdax> i mainly dont want to do hacking but i think its a powerfull thing to know
22:58 < kazdax> not just for the fun of it but also to keep you in relevance as far as you are alive
22:58 < o|0o^|> mawk: any process that sets NO_NEW_PRIVS, or has CAP_SYS_ADMIN can set seccomp filter
22:58 < kazdax> job wise and other wise ..even if i dont get a job as a pen tester ..I hope maybe as a linux admin
22:59 < kazdax> there is so much to study
22:59 < kazdax> i always liked linux as a kid
22:59 < mawk> yes o|0o^| , but the error says that seccomp is already in use
22:59 < mawk> so I assume some upper level service set it on my terminal
22:59 < xamithan> I am looking for a new linux admin job too
22:59 < mawk> and that can only be systemd, knowing what they do
22:59 < kazdax> you already know linux ..i have alot to learn
22:59 < mawk> else that error message is misleading
22:59 < xamithan> They all want a lot of coding experience for some reason
22:59 < kazdax> the LPC linux exam
22:59 < kazdax> assumes you to memorize alot of commands
22:59 < kazdax> which i think sucks
23:00 < kazdax> i know C and assembly for x86
23:00 < xamithan> Yeah I did the redhat ones,  they are practical you get working system
23:00 < kazdax> but i am not that great of a programmer
23:00 < o|0o^|> mawk: weird that it would set a filter without you requesting one
23:00 < kazdax> ohh cool
23:00 < kazdax> maybe ill look at the redhat ones then
23:00 < kazdax> i thought i should do the Comptia A+ and N+ and then lookio into more linux exams
23:00 < xamithan> Nah bypass those baby certs
23:00 < kazdax> plus i spent 70 dollars on material for N+
23:01 < kazdax> yea ?
23:01 < kazdax> ill just sell this stuff to someone else then
23:01 < mawk> ok it's my understanding of firejail command line that was wrong o|0o^|
23:01 < o|0o^|> mawk: check in /proc/*/status and see if your whole shell hierarchy has seccomp set
23:01 < kazdax> so the redhat ones are better than LPC ?
23:01 < mawk> seccomp wasn't really enabled
23:02 < Psi-Jack> LPIC, you mean, right?
23:02 < mawk> enabled on the command line they meant I think
23:02 < kazdax> yea
23:02 < kazdax> LPIC
23:02 < kazdax> let me secound check
23:02 < Psi-Jack> LPIC is generic, and not /as/ looked up to as the RHCSA, and RHCE.
23:02 < kazdax> yea linux proffesional institute
23:02 < xamithan> Yes they are more respected and practical but only focus on RHEL (although that knowledge transfers to most any other distro)
23:03 < kazdax> is the job more laid back than say a job as a pen tester ?
23:03 < jkemppainen> that's true, but LPIC is vendor-neutral; RHCSA an RHCE are not
23:03 < xamithan> Depends on company
23:03 < jkemppainen> for vendor neutrality, Linux+ is better imho
23:03 < kazdax> jkemp i want my cert to test me on actual knowldge
23:04 < kazdax> not on what i can cram
23:04 < kazdax> school never worked for me
23:04 < kazdax> so i learnt by doing
23:04 < xamithan> lpic tests you on like command switches,  ugh
23:04 < Psi-Jack> That, and a lot of potential employers that see Linux+ on a resume, will tear it up and throw it away, too.
23:04 < kazdax> instead of cramming or writting it down
23:04 < triceratux> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180417/13133139649/trying-to-ban-telegram-russia-breaks-internet.shtml
23:04 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: RHCE (and leading up to it), makes you actually know your stuff, and is hands on.
23:05 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: They actually tried, after Telegram refused to "hand over the keys?"
23:05 < xamithan> Did you do the RHCE psi-jack ?
23:05 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: Yeah.
23:05 < kazdax> you guys thintk eh LFS will help me with pursuing RHCE ?
23:05 < xamithan> Did you have time left over?  Because I definitely did not
23:05 < Psi-Jack> RHCE and Linux+, Network+, Security+
23:05 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: Not really.
23:05 < Psi-Jack> But, it can help some with knowledge, if you actually try to learn.
23:06 < Dagmar> I think they deliberately designed the test so that there isn't actually time to check anything
23:06 < Psi-Jack> Mostly, you'll be compiling a lot. :)
23:06 < Dagmar> You just have to type it all in without worrying about if you're doing it wrong.
23:06 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: heh. I did have some. :)
23:06 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: apparently & there were a bunch of websites with sketchy access yesterday. wondering if its related
23:06 < kazdax> cant you check if things are going smoothly
23:06 < kazdax> or you leave that to the testers
23:06 < kazdax> ya
23:06 < kazdax> makes sense tho
23:07 < kazdax> if you cant check to see if its actually right
23:07 < kazdax> :D
23:07 < xamithan> You reboot one or twice just to make sure it'll boot again so you don't get a 0 score,  lol
23:07 < Dagmar> I know this stuff back to front, type in excess of 90wpm, and *I* basically didn't have time to check anything
23:07 < kazdax> thats another thing i need to look at
23:07 < kazdax> is my typing speed
23:07 < kazdax> and accuracy
23:07 < kazdax> its not an important factor but it might help alittle
23:07 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Well, Russia did do some mucking around BGP stuff before....
23:08 < xamithan> accuracy not a big deal,  tab completion is your friend
23:08 < kazdax> right
23:08 < kazdax> so they give you an actual system to work on ?
23:08 < xamithan> Yes it is a VM just like you'd use to lab on
23:08 < kazdax> no written test then ?
23:08 < xamithan> nope
23:09 < kazdax> awesome
23:09 < Dagmar> No, it's entirely a practical
23:09 < kazdax> thats what i was looking for
23:09 < Dagmar> You can vim new users into place just fine
23:09 < xamithan> Can use GUI to save typing time too
23:09 < kazdax> nice
23:09 < kazdax> i rather do the command line style ..old way ..i think its faster
23:09 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: When I did the tests, I'd already had 15-soemthing years knowledge, pretty well knew what I was doing without even needing to check most of it. But, I had time left over afterwards, for sure. The guy that was in charge, his eyes widened when I told him I was done, in fact. He asked, "Are you sure?"
23:10 < kazdax> i remember leanring VI and when i got alittle hang of it
23:10 < kazdax> i was like this shit is way faster than word
23:10 < kazdax> and more interesting
23:10 < Dagmar> Heck I wrote an iptables save file and then restored it instead of even typing iptables
23:11 < xamithan> Thats what I need to do next time I recertify.  Not look at the apache2 guide and man pages so much
23:13 < Dagmar> Well, my problem was that they basically expected a lazy-assed config
23:13 < Dagmar> If you don't ask for the feature in an apache config, I turn it *off*
23:14 < kazdax> can i do RHCE right away
23:14 < kazdax> or do i have to follow any other cert ?
23:14 < Dagmar> YOu have to pass the RHCSA first
23:14 < xamithan> You can but you won't get awarded it until you do RHCSA
23:14 < Dagmar> THat one is a bit easier
23:14 < Dagmar> Well, _lots_ easier
23:14 < xamithan> I think the RHCE was easier =/
23:14 < Dagmar> If you can't pass it then you've no business calling yourself a sysadmin
23:14 < Frith> I always feel bad in these discussions -- IU've never gotten a cert of any type.
23:15 < kazdax> so the RHCSA is it also practical
23:15 < xamithan> Yes
23:15 < kazdax> practical in the sense that you can use a computer and not written test
23:15 < Dagmar> It's a practical, and it's stuff like "install RH to the VM without accidentally swallowing the install ISO and choking on it"
23:16 < xamithan> Easier to mess up too because some of the objectives are to partition
23:16 < Dagmar> ...which, if you're an actual sysadmin and used to LVM and cfdisk or fdisk, is pretty easy stuff
23:16 < Fieldy> hello, i had a 60+ hour badblocks test take a crap. it found no errors. the interruption was some kind of nonsensical usb error, looking at kernel logs. is there a way to tell badblocks to resume or start at a specific place?
23:17 < Dagmar> If they were asking you to use mdadm to set up a RAID 6 configuration, then maybe there'd be a proble,
23:17 < kazdax> so okay is there anything before RHCSA i need to take ?
23:17 < Dagmar> Nope
23:17 < kazdax> okay
23:17 < Dagmar> Maybe 100mg of caffiene
23:17 < kazdax> i am reading about it online
23:18 < kazdax> and from the looks of it ..it seems like the links you guys gave me about basic linux handling is what the RHCSA is about
23:18 < Psi-Jack> Frith: heh. I never /paid/ for a cert out of my own pocket that wasn't refunded back to me by the employer./
23:18 < jkemppainen> Psi-Jack: hm, really? A Linux+ and they'll tear it up? o.O
23:18 < jkemppainen> Why?
23:18 < Psi-Jack> Frith: Aka: I don't believe in most certifications.
23:19 < xamithan> Probably because you can memorize for Linux+ and never actually touch a computer
23:19 < Frith> I generally have that sentiment as well.
23:19 < kazdax> you guys..tomorrow i have to go talk with the people who can help me with my education
23:19 < kazdax> so i am gonna mention this to them
23:19 < Psi-Jack> jkemppainen: Simply, because they've hired people with it before that often times were idiots. Seeings I took their test, AND corrected their own mistakes on their own test, and forced them into a corner to acknowledge it.. I tend to agree.
23:19 < jkemppainen> Psi-Jack: O.O
23:19 < xamithan> kazdax: bookmark this link: https://www.certdepot.net/
23:20 < jkemppainen> Psi-Jack: mistakes? Hm, now I'm curious
23:20 < Frith> I've been on the development side for a while, without a whole lot of need to be qualified as a sysadmin, however.
23:20 < xamithan> That was my main study resource
23:20 < kazdax> thanks
23:20 < kazdax> question tho ... where do i get RH installation to practice on ?
23:21 < xamithan> You can sign up for dev subscription for free,  or you can use CentOS
23:21 < jkemppainen> kazdax: I suspect something like CentOS or Scientific Linux could probably be sufficient
23:21 < kazdax> alright
23:21 < kazdax> ill look more into this online
23:21 < Psi-Jack> jkemppainen: Heh yeah. The test I took for it was while I was in the Army training, which includes LPIC stuff. I'd passed their test, but I did not agree with the score they gave. Spent about 2 months fighting with them over it. ;)
23:22 < Frith> "AAAaaarrrmy training, Sir!"
23:22 < Psi-Jack> CentOS would  be best, actually.
23:23 < jkemppainen> Psi-Jack: do you happen to remember details about what they messed up? because that seems hilariously incompetent on their part
23:24 < Psi-Jack> jkemppainen: It was 10~14 years ago, and then I had the rest of my Army years following that. heh
23:26 < applecrumble> What does it mean for `ls -al` to have a 'T' in the file permissions? I created it using mkdir from a C program, if that helps
23:27 < applecrumble> I don't seem to have permissions to write in it
23:27 < xamithan> sticky bit
23:27 < kazdax> does fedora and redhat use the same package manager ?
23:28 < applecrumble> xamithan: Me?
23:28 < xamithan> Yes,  read up on it.  It just disallows others to delete your stuff in that dir
23:29 < applecrumble> xamithan: will do, thanks!
23:30 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: Fedora uses dnf. RHEL/CentOS still uses yum
23:30 < kazdax> ahh i see
23:30 < Psi-Jack> Mostly the same, functionally.
23:38 < kazdax> just a shot in the dark
23:39 < TwistedFate> hi
23:40 < TwistedFate> umm.. so what's the status on that meltdown and spectre thingy on gnu+linux? is it fixed? do the kernel patches for those lower the performance as it was rumored?
23:40 < kazdax> can i just use the linux redhat ISO
23:40 < kazdax> and after each 30 days limit..i reset the vm to a new instalation
23:40 < kazdax> and continue using the RHE ?
23:41 < xamithan> Just sign up for a sub: https://developers.redhat.com/products/rhel/download/
23:41 < meyou_> i think processors are gonna have to get slower
23:41 < meyou_> all of the dirty branch prediction tricks seem to leave them vulnerable
23:41 < xamithan> You don't even need to install the license key.  You can use the ISO to make your own repository.  You'll have to do that to study anyway
23:43 < triceratux> TwistedFate: theres a script now that can check out whether your kernel is fixed or not https://linuxhint.com/check-patch-spectre-meltdown-debian/
23:44 < meyou_> haven't there been other vulnerabilites found since then though?
23:44 < meyou_> that use the same principle
23:46 < luke-jr> TwistedFate: it's not fixed entirely yet; but IBM's POWER9 is immune ;)
23:47 < kazdax> i had such an old account with redhat
23:47 < kazdax> around 15 years old lol
23:48 < ||JD||> now you now where all that spam in your inbox comes from
23:48 < snugger> hey guys
23:49 < mawk> firejail is too zealous for me
23:49 < mawk> I just want a quick overlay on / to discard changes after the ssh session is closed, plus some seccomp filters
23:50 < mawk> but firejail sets the overlay as nosuid so I can't use sudo, and it sets NO_NEW_PRIVS if I use seccomp
23:50 < mawk> and I don't want that and I can't disable that
23:50 < mawk> looks like I'm gonna have to re-code something
23:50 < wonderer> hi all
23:50 < wonderer> trying to mount a share i setup on my synology nas from linux
23:51 < wonderer> but getting stuck
23:51 < Psi-Jack> wonderer: We'll need details, what type of share (Samba, NFS, etc), what are you doing, what is getting stuck, etc.
23:52 < Psi-Jack> I'm heading out, but I wanted to give that tidbit to get better help. :)
23:52 < meyou_> where ya stuck at
23:52 < meyou_> i have that exact setup
23:52 < wonderer> am doing: mount.cifs //192.168.50.1/volume1/raspberry-pi /mnt/raspberry -o username=pi
23:52 < meyou_> oh i use NFS
23:52 < xamithan> What error do you get
23:52 < wonderer> but getting mount error(95): Operation not supported
23:53 < wonderer> ok i am guessingi should use nfs
23:53 < Psi-Jack> Ahh
23:53 < Slimmy> Hello, So I have a hex file and it I would like to take the 3rd segment only. Seraching online  I came to the conclusion I should use awk. But I still can't find/understand the command I should use. Anyone knows how to do it?
23:53 < wonderer> what should i put?
23:53 < Psi-Jack> wonderer: Gotcha covered.
23:53 < meyou_> NFS is a little more native. you'll need to make sure NFS is enabled on the syno
23:53 < Psi-Jack> wonderer: Use a newer version of the SMB protocol, smb3, man mount.cifs for details.
23:53 < meyou_> and grant your linux box's IP access
23:53 < Psi-Jack> SMB is much easier to work with, and faster than NFSv3
23:53 < wonderer> i belive i done this already
23:53 < meyou_> then mount -t nfs <synologyip>:/path/to/export
23:54 < meyou_> + /mnt/raspberry
23:54 < wonderer> ok i will try thx meyou_
23:54 < meyou_> np
23:54 < xamithan> He just needs a vers=3.0 ?
23:55 < Psi-Jack> Yep
23:55 < Slimmy> I mean i got a file full of hex and I want the xx part 00:00:xx of the hex
23:55 < Psi-Jack> mount.cifs -o vers=3.0
23:55 < wonderer> root@rpi1:/mnt/raspberry# mount -t nfs //192.168.50.1/volume1/raspberry-pi
23:55 < wonderer> mount: can't find //192.168.50.1/volume1/raspberry-pi in /etc/fstab
23:55 < wonderer> i am getting this
23:55 < Psi-Jack> Synology, IIRC, disabled SMBv1 in recent firmware updates. (and should have if not)
23:56 < xamithan> So why doesn't SMB attempt the latest version first?
23:56 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: Good question. it's pretty stupid honestly.
23:56 < twainwek> Slimmy: try sed
23:56 < Psi-Jack> It tries v1 first, and then goes up.
23:56 < twainwek> Slimmy: are they per line?
23:56 < Psi-Jack> But, of course, if v1 fails....
23:56 < Slimmy> twainek: Yeap
23:57 < xamithan> Backwards Dev logic
23:57 < Psi-Jack> mount -t cifs //192.168.50.1/volume1/raspberry-pi /mnt/raspberry -o username=pi -o vers=3.0
23:57 < Psi-Jack> Enjoy, :)
23:57 < Psi-Jack> Or is it -o username=pi,vers=3.0? Hmm
23:58 < meyou_> wonderer, the syntax for nfs is mount -t nfs 192.168.50.1:/volume1/raspberry-pi /mnt/raspberry
23:58 < Psi-Jack> Anwyay, heading home. :)
23:59 < snugger> hey Psi-Jack !
23:59 < stevendale> Hey snugger
--- Log closed Thu Apr 19 00:00:14 2018