--- Log opened Fri Apr 20 00:00:51 2018
00:01 < kazdax> goys lol
00:02 < aBound> The snugger is gone.
00:02 < kazdax> k
00:02 < wtflux> any help with my floppy disk probs anyone?
00:02 < kazdax> i guess thats a word used to provoke people
00:02 < aBound> Hello there Oy_vey_goys.
00:02 < kazdax> floppy disks ?
00:02 < aBound> I'll floppy you.
00:02 < wtflux> i would've imagined that partedmagic had the utilities/drivers to load floppies
00:02 < wtflux> hi ##linux, i've booted into parted magic and im trying to load some old HFS (mac) floppy diskettes 3.5" and i cant get mount -t /dev/fd0(1,...) to mount on /mnt/floppy
00:03 < uvvwvwwuuwv> what is ze error
00:03 < kazdax> maybe the floppy are corrupted ?
00:03 < wtflux> no floppies work i know for certain they do
00:03 < wtflux> its saying the device fd0 doesnt exist
00:03 < wtflux> 'special device fd0 does not exist'
00:04 < wtflux> i think its missing drivers for floppy devices
00:04 < uvvwvwwuuwv> i think you're right
00:04 < kazdax> do i just create a / partition and a swap
00:04 < kazdax> and thats all i need ?
00:04 < uvvwvwwuuwv> maybe you neeed to modprobe whatever the drivr is called
00:04 < wtflux> modprobe is missing
00:04 < wtflux> i did get that far
00:04 < uvvwvwwuuwv> llol good luck with that then
00:05 < wtflux> partedmagic, the distro im on (for filesys management and disk mgmt and what not) is supposed to be really good for this stuff but it doesnt have aptitude installed, so i have dpkg can i find the modprobe dpkg?
00:06 < snugger> kazdax: nah goys is just what jews call anybody who isn't a jew. it's not meant to be offensive or anything
00:07 < kazdax> what is it derived from ?
00:07 < snugger> not sure
00:07 < uvvwvwwuuwv> you know what's messed up, i have /dev/fd0 but no floppy drive installed
00:07 < wtflux> uvvwvwwuuwv: you were right, i didnt have modprobe spelled correctly or something modprobe floppy fixed the issue
00:07 < uvvwvwwuuwv> or module loaded
00:07 < freedom_penguin> hi all, qq on fstab UUIDs. How portable are they if I take a VM image and dd that onto a physical machine. I forget if its the device IDs or UUIDs that more portable.
00:07 < collins> does a file need to be named id_rsa or is it fine to name it whatever? Will it be found as long as it's in .ssh/?
00:08 < freedom_penguin> name it whatever
00:08 < wtflux> yay
00:08 < wtflux> my boss is gonna be uber happy, mac files from 1995 are totally working!
00:08 < freedom_penguin> just make the pub/priv the same name and the public one ends with .pub
00:09 < uvvwvwwuuwv> must have it built-in by accident
00:09 < collins> wtflux: nice. He's now going to cash in on your hard work. Congratulations.
00:09 < kazdax> should i change my host from debian to fedora ?
00:09 < kazdax> or is debian good enough ?
00:09 < snugger> maybe
00:09 < kazdax> does Debian provide better support for the KDE ?
00:09 < snugger> dnf is objectively better than apt
00:09 < kazdax> dnf id fedoras package manager ?
00:09 < snugger> but debian might be more stable
00:09 < kazdax> is*
00:09 < snugger> yes it is
00:10 < kazdax> well i think important thing is to first learning how to use linux overall then have enough knowledge to choose whats right ?
00:10 < wtflux> collins: i know you're totally right.
00:11 < wtflux> hey guys can i use dd to copy from the fd0 to a usb directory?
00:11 < kazdax> i need to figure out a good way to learn linux
00:11 < kazdax> these RHEL books are terrible from the looks of it
00:12 < kazdax> i want to master the terminal
00:12 < kazdax> so i can have a terminal illness
00:12 < collins> is ssh-add required for github? tht makes no sense to me
00:12 < wtflux> sudo dd if=/dev/fd0 of=/dev/sdc/<dir> ?
00:12 < Konichiwa> wtf
00:13 < ||JD||> it's seems fb is planning to build its own processors
00:13 < ||JD||> shameful
00:13 < kazdax> facebook has become a trolling ground
00:13 < kazdax> and not just that ..it steals all your information
00:13 < ||JD||> you don't say?
00:14 < kazdax> and displays tons of adds and adds new users posts to you page that have nothing to do with you
00:14 < kazdax> i am really old school ..in the sense i havnt really invested time in keeping up with trends
00:14 < kazdax> but facebook f ed up big time
00:15 < kazdax> my aunt got this device called a surface
00:15 < kazdax> at first i thought wow cool ..a microsoft surface
00:15 < kazdax> but the dude who gave it to her a  gift was nothing but getting ride of his windows RT crap hardware
00:15 < kazdax> you cant run any app on it
00:16 < kazdax> i am totally using linux now
00:16 < kazdax> no more windows
00:16 < kazdax> bye bye
00:17 < Vin3> Windows sucks hard!!!  o/
00:17 < aBound> Can't you just run Linux on the Surface Pro.
00:17 < xamithan> Go tell the windows channel that Vin3,  it is kind of redundant to say it in here
00:18 < ntd> surface pro kb would not work with *nix some years back
00:18 < sadbox> aBound: Personally if I was going to run a machine w/ all the fancy touch screen + pen hardware I'd just use windows
00:19 < Frith> sadbox: The pixelbook works pretty well.
00:19 < aBound> sadbox, Indeed if you're going to ever use the touch screen. I never seen the need to use it but then again some people will.
00:20 < sadbox> Frith: does it do the pen stuff?
00:20 < sadbox> my linux laptop has a touchscreen
00:20 < sadbox> which works fine
00:20 < kazdax> its the pen thing they use windows for
00:20 < Frith> It does pen stuff.  Circle words to look up, draw things that get changed into the image of what you were drawing, etc.
00:20 < kazdax> because the drivers support the use of touch sensitivity
00:20 < kazdax> used by artists
00:20 < kazdax> to make digital art
00:20 < kazdax> if linux picks on that
00:20 < kazdax> then windows will have no where to go
00:20 < kazdax> word
00:21 < kazdax> the only place linux lacks is games being developed for it
00:21 < kazdax> besides that i am sure digital artists can use linux just as well
00:21 < kazdax> for creating
00:21 < aBound> Linux would need more then just games to compete on the desktop.
00:21 < aBound> Proprietary software.
00:21 < sadbox> kazdax: I'm pretty sure that everyone says that about $THING they care about
00:22 < kazdax> dosnt linxu satify the server side of things ?
00:22 < sadbox> artists say that about their tools, gamers say that about their games, audio people say that about -their- tools, etc, etc
00:22 < Vin3> if u need touch an fancy things use android
00:22 < aBound> I believe Unity3D has an experimental build for Linux but haven't paid much attention to development.
00:24 < kazdax>                                      i want o get a note 5
00:25 < kazdax> i want to get a note 5
00:25 < kazdax> galaxy note 5
00:25 < sadbox> Vin3: Not really an option for people who do art stuff
00:25 < kazdax> i have a galaxy s7 edge right now
00:25 < kazdax> i like the phone
00:25 < kazdax> but dont know what cool stuff i can do with it
00:25 < aBound> kazdax, Learn Java to build mobile apps?
00:26 < kazdax> yea there are no pointers in java right
00:26 < kazdax> probably a breeze for me
00:26 < aBound> Or should I say learn Java/Android SDK to build mobile apps.
00:26 < kazdax> one of my cousins told me that ruby is being used alot to built mobile apps
00:26 < kazdax> no wait
00:27 < kazdax> i meant .. apple Appps were the trend
00:27 < kazdax> but he did say use ruby to built websites
00:27 < aBound> Ruby with the Ruby on Rails framework.
00:28 < kazdax> yup
00:28 < aBound> I prefer Python due to the versatility.
00:28 < oiaohm>  aBound really the big thing Linux is missing is decent tax of country compadible accountancy software every where.
00:28 < kazdax> yea i was going to say python all of the way
00:28 < kazdax> but ruby websites look better ?
00:28 < kazdax> just look better
00:28 < kazdax> dont know if they out perform
00:29 < kazdax> out perform python that is
00:29 < sadbox> kazdax: the programming language has zero to do with how the website looks
00:29 < aBound> oiaohm, Indeed it's missing all kinds of proprietary software such as MS Office and Photoshop.
00:30 < kazdax> ahh right
00:30 < oiaohm> aBound: MS Office and Photoshop for most businesses is not required.
00:30 < aBound> kazdax, HTML/CSS and a combination of the Bootstrap framework. :P
00:30 < oiaohm> aBound: MS Office is way to buggy most cases these days business to business is PDF anyhow.
00:30 < aBound> oiaohm, Isn't MS Office mostly Excel used in accounting?
00:30 < Vin3> Yeah but Adobe could u plz... ?!?!?!
00:31 < oiaohm> aBound: most accountancy software that so call exports Excel is really exporting a cvs with a .xls extention.
00:31 < oiaohm> aBound: basically something that libreoffice calc consumes no problems.
00:32 < aBound> oiaohm, Libreoffice has been getting better in time but it's not comparable for most I'd figure.
00:32 < sadbox> aBound: excel is used a silly amount
00:32 < aBound> I do like the Ribbon theme for Libreoffice.
00:33 < oiaohm> aBound: something else excel does not alway perform maths correctly.   There are a long list of items like getting leep years wrong coded into excel for so called backwards compadiblity.
00:33 < oiaohm> aBound: so if you are after stuff done absolutely right you kind of avoid excel.
00:33 < aBound> oiaohm, They haven't fixed that yet? It's been years since I've used Windows.
00:35 < collins> What do I need to do to make ssh recognize the privkey (that's not named id_rsa) located in .ssh/? ssh-add might do it, but that isn't making any sense since ssh-agent is an extra and a key ring, is it not?
00:36 < collins> why do I need to use ssh-add to use them?
00:36 < vlt> collins: Does "-i keyfile" work?
00:36 < oiaohm> aBound: those defects are basically now called features so are never going to be removed.
00:36 < ELQEYNN> Are any of you familiar with evolution and empathy?
00:37 < collins> vlt: yes :|
00:37 < xamithan> Yes I've read charles darwins books and I know of mother teresa
00:37 < oiaohm> aBound: yes Microsoft Office has the most evil solution to a bug.   Call it a feature then never have to fix it.
00:37 < revel> collins: If you want to make it "permanent", then `man ssh_config` may help you.
00:38 < collins> shouldn't the ssh-client just try all the private keys in .ssh/?
00:38 < vlt> xamithan: If you associate empathy with her you don't know her.
00:38 < ELQEYNN> Are any of you familiar with evolution e-mail client?
00:38 < xamithan> Thats why I said I know of her
00:38 < Vin3> mother teresa kill thousands
00:39 < collins> ELQEYNN: I can recommend the mozilla e-mail client
00:39 < collins> ELQEYNN: thunderbird
00:39 < xamithan> Do you got a real question ELQEYNN or are you just taking polls ?
00:39 < ELQEYNN> I was asking about the empathy communication software package.
00:39 < xamithan> Because anyone who has every installed gnome knows of that email client
00:40 < ELQEYNN> I have a question. I have an old backup of evolution emails. Can one restore them, without losing the contemporary emails?
00:41 < ELQEYNN> darn ... The suse distributions all include evoltion in thier distribution.
00:41 < collins> so the ssh-client has only one identity file then?
00:43 < collins> Do ssh-clients only have one private key? You don't use many at once but have to specify one or use a default one?
00:44 < xamithan> According to a quick internet search.  It says you lose all your current emails if you do a restore
00:44 < xamithan> Which is probably normal for anything that overwrites files or databases
00:44 < Sitri> collins: I've had ssh use a different identify file for different servers, at one point I was running 5 keypairs at once.
00:46 < collins> Sitri: by making a config file that specifies the key for each server?
00:46 < collins> how does ssh-add know which server to add the key to?
00:46 < aBound> oiaohm, Indeed Microsoft doesn't fix much when they can though I do like VSCode in that regard.
00:47 < vlt> collins: ssh-add adds to your agent.
00:47 < vlt> collins: The private key that is.
00:47 < vlt> collins: ssh-copy-id adds the pubkey to a server.
00:48 < ELQEYNN> With irc clients, one can merge files.
00:48 < Sitri> collins: Yes.  I forget how ssh-add knows, but it wasn't at all complicated.
00:48 < collins> vlt: and the ssh-client will only kick in when a passphrase for any keyfile is prompted? Got nothing to do with the actual connection to the servers?
00:48 < Sitri> Though as noted, you only need ssh-add when you're also using ssh-agent (which is NOT the default)
00:49 < ELQEYNN> aBound Did you switch over to Linux to get better service?
00:49 < vlt> ssh-add takes an "-i" argument.
00:49 < vlt> collins: Do you mean "ssh-agent"?
00:50 < collins> Sitri: I suppose the selection of the key is done by the ssh-client. And once the selected key (not selected by ssh-agent) is selected, ssh-agent fills in the password for you.
00:50 < aBound> ELQEYNN, I switched over to Linux due to the instability of Windows, the constant problems that would appear, forced Windows updates, non-stop malware/security issues.
00:50 < collins> hence ssh-add doesn't need to know what key goes to what server
00:50 < vlt> collins: No, the agent keeps the decrypted passphrase, afaik.
00:51 < aBound> ELQEYNN, Mostly for the instability was the main reason.
00:51 < aBound> I would do something and it would just crash for no reason even if it's just opening a program.
00:51 < collins> vlt: right, it doesn't do anything more then.
00:51 < vlt> collins: I usually have only one or two keys that I use on many dozens of servers.
00:51 < collins> I think I know what to research now. Thanks for the help.
00:51 < imchairmanm> collins: the passphrase you initially use when you add a passphrase-protected key to the agent allows the agent to store the decrypted key in memory and use it diretly
00:52 < imchairmanm> by default, ssh-agent just tries all of the keys it knows about when you try to connect to a server with ssh
00:52 < collins> I see. Seems like this is a git problem then
00:53 < collins> imchairmanm: for how long will the ssh-agent store the passphrase?
00:53 < imchairmanm> you can see it cycling through keys if you connect through ssh with `-v`
00:53 < triceratux> guys any idea why todays extonos 18.04 has networking that has gone completely south ? http://www.extix.se/?p=393 http://pastebin.centos.org/691201/raw/ firefox & opera barely work, ping works by ip but not by dns, & hexchat cant connect. in 17.08 he hed put in wicd & the config was messed up. this version hes replaced it with network-manager but the configs in /etc/network & /etc/resolvconf dont look anything like on a sane
00:53 < triceratux> distro
00:54 < vlt> collins: "A git problem"?!? What giant !xy are we talking about here?
00:54 < imchairmanm> collins: by default, the agent will keep the decrypted key in memory for as long as it's alive
00:55 < aBound> ELQEYNN, By the way been on full Linux since 2011 though I have used it several times in the past before 2011.
00:55 < imchairmanm> you can set the expiration time if you want it shorter by passing in `-t` with either `ssh-agent` or when adding keys with `ssh-add`
00:55  * triceratux keeps getting "connect: network is unreachable" & suspects this hardcoded 127.0.0.53
00:56 < imchairmanm> if you want it to store it for a given amount of time every time, I think you can adjust that in your ssh config too
00:56 < collins> vlt: "ssh -vT user@github.com" uses id_rsa and fails. "ssh -vT user@github.com -i ~/.ssh/github_key" uses github_key and works.
00:56 < collins> imchairmanm: thanks
00:58 < vlt> collins: If you didn't use id_rsa on github but another key, that is exactly the expected behaviour.
00:59 < collins> vlt: but I've the github_rsa file in my /.ssh/ and its public key uploaded to github?
00:59 < dell00> How do I add a key different from ~/.ssh/id_rsa to my ssh config?
01:00 < vlt> collins: Is that a question?
01:00 < collins> dell00: create .ssh/config and do this for a given host https://gist.github.com/rbialek/1012262
01:00 < collins> vlt: isn't that enough for a key to be used?
01:01 < dell00> Thanks collins
01:01 < vlt> collins: No, you need to tell ssh that you don't want the default.
01:02 < collins> >:(
01:02 < collins> hmm. Well, that's how it is then. Thanks.
01:04 < triceratux> there was a time i really liked extonos but its become a dumpster fire like puppy in the last couple releases
01:05 < lesceil> how do I find a place to chat about programming using redis primitives, I tried #redis but its dead silent
01:05 < aBound> I am off, swoosh... :P
01:06 < xamithan> Well you could use the alis bot to find a channel
01:06 < xamithan> or maybe ask in ##programming
01:06 < lesceil> I am a renoobed IRC user, what are the double hashes about
01:07 < xamithan> I don't really know,  just something to make them "unofficial" channels
01:11 < oerheks> Primary on-topic channels begin with a single #, and groups wanting to use such a channel must officially register with Freenode. "About" channels, which may not be about a peer-directed or open-source project, begin with two ##, and are available on a first-come, first-served basis without needing a group registration.
01:11 < oerheks> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode
01:11 < lesceil> xmithan: thanks
01:11 < lesceil> nice thank you oerheks
01:12 < lesceil> how do I mute the join/quit messages again /
01:12 < lesceil> ?
01:12 < xamithan> depends on your client
01:12 < lesceil> webchat.freenode
01:12 < lesceil> which probably is mimicing what irc clients used to do back when I used them
01:13 < lesceil> but I forgot :)
01:13 < michaelrose> if you aren't going to keep using the worst irc client in the world I wouldn't worry about it
01:13 < xamithan> No idea,  it would be in a webgui preferences or options box
01:13 < xamithan> There isn't a standard way to hide those
01:14 < lesceil> xam and I found it just there. thank you.
01:15 < lesceil> after all this years its great I still find helpful and knowledable people in #linux :)
01:24 < Psi-Jack> Huh.. My server that kept crashing needed some attention. Dusting. New rear exhaust fan. Cleaning the fins of the heat sink. Hopefully now its stable. :)
01:24 < tejasmanohar> can anyone explain to me why Make says this file doesnt exist? https://gist.github.com/tejasmanohar/4c452f8536b31b2edb36af506ff583df
01:25 < tejasmanohar> errrrrr why it always says doesnt exist
01:26 < tejasmanohar> something is wrong in the wildcard and driving me nuts :P
01:27 < tejasmanohar> if I hardcode "wildcard orion/Dockerfile", it works fine. Is there something wrong with using $(name) in that if
01:30 < triceratux> http://pastebin.centos.org/691206/raw/
01:37 < lesceil> PSI may also want to reseat the RAM and maybe reattach the heatsink with new paste
01:38 < lesceil> just in case :)
01:38 < xamithan> Sometimes that makes things worse
01:39 < Psi-Jack> lesceil: Yeah, if it continues to act up, we'll see. I usually don't re-apply thermal paste except in a last resort. The kind of paste I use pretty much usually lasts the lifetime of a computer.
01:40 < Psi-Jack> That, and I have a new Intel PRO/1000 Pt Dual-port NIC coming in to replace the POS Realcrap 8168
01:40 < shadoxx> could someone help me with editing a device tree file?
01:41 < Psi-Jack> shadoxx: A what?
01:41 < lesceil> tricer: lol, quite a raw find
01:41 < shadoxx> Psi-Jack: really low level stuff
01:41 < Psi-Jack> shadoxx: Kernel level?
01:41 < shadoxx> not really specific to linux, but something that the embedded crowd in here might be able to help me with
01:42 < shadoxx> but linux uses device tree files (.dts)
01:42 < Psi-Jack> shadoxx: ##linux mostly focuses on GNU/Linux.
01:42 < shadoxx> I am aware.
01:42 < Psi-Jack> What you seem to be needing leans towards more into the kernel directly. If you don't find help here, try ##kernel or the LKML.
01:43 < shadoxx> oh! ##kernel, that's a good idea
01:43 < shadoxx> thank you!
01:43 < Psi-Jack> Welcome :)
01:43 < lesceil> or ##arm :)
01:43 < jimm> or #kernel-newbies on oftc.net
01:44 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, good 34'C. I should've checked the CPU temps before I did the blow-out maintenance. heh
01:45 < Psi-Jack> Now it's up to crossing fingers and hoping, and waiting for it to stay up and running or crash (can take an hour or so)
01:45 < lesceil> run memtest
01:45 < lesceil> it will go faster
01:45 < Psi-Jack> memtest on 8GB RAM would need 24 hours of downtime.
01:46 < Psi-Jack> I'm in the middle of a Ceph re-balance. :)
01:46 < lesceil> Oh I don't mean to exhaust all ram testing but to put churn on the cpu
01:46 < Psi-Jack> memtest... doesn't churn the CPU.
01:46 < lesceil> doesnt?
01:46 < Psi-Jack> No.
01:46 < shadoxx> I found this doc: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/gpio/gpio.txt
01:46 < lesceil> oh yeah that needs linpack
01:47 < Psi-Jack> cpuburn, or similar sysburn-ng or something, that churns the CPU heavy.
01:47 < lesceil> I forgot
01:47 < lesceil> its been a few years
01:47 < Psi-Jack> It's a hypervisor system running Ceph mon+osd+mds and VM's, so it already churns the CPU harder than normal with lots of CPS.
01:48 < triceratux> lesceil: the little known thing about gnu/linux/x11 is that you dont have to go out of your way to find hozed stuff to teach yourself problem determination & sysadmin. just keep installing those homegrown distros & youll run up against plenty of problems ;)
01:48 < Psi-Jack> Err, CSP's, Context Switches Per Second. Hmmm, what is the proper acronym for that? heh
01:48 < aeyxa> isn't there a flag or something on mkdir or sudo I can pass so I can do this without chown `sudo mkdir DOCKER && sudo chown ec2-user: DOCKER`
01:48 < lesceil> tric: and dare I speak the name 'systemd'
01:48 < fr0b> tejasmanohar: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/11994029/makefile-ifeq-when-are-they-evaluated
01:49 < Psi-Jack> aeyxa: No.
01:49 < Psi-Jack> Not with mkdir, with install you could.
01:50 < aeyxa> hmm, alright
01:50 < Psi-Jack> And you shouldn't be using sudo in make. :)
01:50 < aeyxa> I have to
01:50 < triceratux> lesceil: well, yeah rofl. im not pointing any fingers. theres other distros where that 127.0.0.53 is flying around. but they work tho. i dont really want to know whats wrong. i just want the stuff to work
01:50 < Psi-Jack> You should just run sudo make, appropriately.
01:51 < Psi-Jack> Err, nevermind me. I got crossed. :)
01:52 < Psi-Jack> Though, using the default ec2-user itself, that's kinda a bad idea. Just FYI.
01:53 < lesceil> tric: I am only pointing one finger per hand, up. https://twitter.com/systemdsucks
01:53 < lesceil> but I disgress.
01:54 < Psi-Jack> Oi... The systemd hate needs to stop already.
01:54 < cmj> systemd love to hate thee
01:55 < cmj> hi, Psi-Jack
01:55 < Psi-Jack> I use the heck outa systemd myself. systemd service units, mount units, automount targets, timers, sockets, etc. :)
01:55 < cmj> i use a hodgep-podge
01:56 < Psi-Jack> systemd sockets are actually a great way to provide very simple up/down response messages to things like haproxy which check them, so it knows where to load balance to.
01:56 < cmj> haha haproxy
01:56 < cmj> i thought i was the only one
01:56 < Psi-Jack> haproxy is awesome when you use it right. :)
01:57 < cmj> haproxy is the shit folks
01:57 < uvvwvwwuuwv> whats this
01:57 < uvvwvwwuuwv> funny proxy
01:57 < triceratux> in extonos 17.8 i had this fixed. i scripted a systemctl stop / start wicd, with the necessary config restore in between. all better. then he decides to rip out the wicd again & the net is broken like it was
01:58 < cmj> you can send certain cipher to the port, the daemon redirects
01:58 < cmj> simply as i can put it
01:58 < uvvwvwwuuwv> sounds boring
01:59 < cmj> tru
01:59 < cmj> if you send ciphers that are according to ssh and not https, the port redirects accordingly
02:00 < uvvwvwwuuwv> handshake proxy?
02:00 < Psi-Jack> cmj: Oh? haproxy can decipher ssh from https?
02:00 < cmj> its a proxy that has balls
02:00 < Psi-Jack> HighAvailability Proxy
02:00 < cmj> Psi-Jack: yes
02:00 < Psi-Jack> cmj: /that/ I did not know. And could be useful. :)
02:00 < Psi-Jack> cmj: How did you manage that?
02:00 < cmj> it's amazing‼
02:01 < Psi-Jack> I'd often considered sslh, for that, but I don't want yet another proxy. LOL
02:01 < cmj> i could redirect yo to docs
02:02 < Psi-Jack> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/267114/use-haproxy-to-tunnel-ssh-through-https
02:02 < Psi-Jack> I'm seeing this. Interesting.
02:02 < cmj> https://superuser.com/questions/769040/haproxy-for-ssh-name-based-proxying
02:02 < cmj> yeah
02:02 < cmj> it's so choice
02:03 < Psi-Jack> The link I referenced uses the newer config format.
02:03 < Psi-Jack> I'll have to try this out, see how it works. :)
02:03 < cmj> yeah it's great
02:04 < Psi-Jack> That name-based ssh proxy idea though is also interesting heh
02:04 < cmj> i'm actually babysitting otherwise i'd dig in
02:04 < Psi-Jack> I could possibly put that to handle my bbs. ;)
02:05 < cmj> words never spoken, folks
02:05 < Psi-Jack> Though, if I put haproxy in front of my BBS, my BBS wouldn't get actual origin IPs so that wouldn't work.
02:05 < Psi-Jack> Need the anti-bot monitoring OSSEC to get actual IPs. ;)
02:06 < cmj> is there some x-forewareded-for nonsense?
02:06 < cmj> fingers--
02:07 < Psi-Jack> Mmm.. pizza's almost here.
02:08 < tejasmanohar> ahhh thank you fr0b
02:09 < cmj> our bbs was r.a.i.n
02:09 < cmj> random access internet network iirc
02:10 < cmj> https://textfiles.com/bbs/BBSLISTS/
02:15 < mod> I've nfs mounted a filesystem and the user that runs httpd is able to access it when I am that user in a shell, but the httpd just can't access files within the mounted filesystem. Its not able to read or write when the files are owned and are 777
02:17 < cmj> http://www.haproxy.org/download/1.9/doc/intro.txt
02:19 < cmj> mod: is that an ntfs filesystem?
02:19 < mod> no, macos server, centos host
02:20 < mod> so probably hfs :)
02:21 < cmj> anyone can access 777, so there must be some mount rulesets to not allow
02:21 < mod> oh...
02:21 < cmj> mount shoud show this
02:21 < mod> oh whatsitcalled...
02:22 < cmj> google remount
02:22 < mod> could is be selinux?
02:23 < xamithan> Could be if it is enabled
02:23 < mod> enforced... just checked. disabling
02:23 < mod> *grrr*
02:24 < xamithan> Just as easy to change the context
02:27 < mod> i think that was it cmj...selinux. Thanks for making em think, cmj, xamithan :)
02:28 < cmj> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMjCxV7u8OA
02:28 < cmj> my bad
02:35 < triceratux> hrm fixed the extonos 18.4 networking. it just needed an 8.8.8.8 stuffed into /etc/resolv/conf. didnt even need to cycle the interface. now what accounts for it being so heinously broken ?
02:35 < xamithan> extonos ?
02:36 < xamithan> Oh it is based on ubuntu,  ubuntu had that major systemd resolve bug that broke DNS at one point
02:36 < triceratux> yeah thats a pretty fair explanation right there rofl http://www.extix.se/?p=393
02:37 < tyzoid> triceratux: btw, did you see cloudflare launched the 1.1.1.1 dns resolver earlier this month?
02:37 < triceratux> https:// is fine so apt-get works. but hexchat doesnt tolerate it & neither does ping at the cli. youd think someone other than the endusers would notice somethings up
02:38 < Psilocyber> Hey peeps, happy Thursday/Friday...... will there be an event in the disk SMART when drive goes above the max temp threshold? Kind of like how it keeps record of different errors it encountered?
02:38 < tyzoid> It's faster than 8.8.8.8 in most places
02:38 < triceratux> tyzoid: nope i only do this in emergencies. personally i think dhcp provided by the isp should be working
02:39 < xamithan> What I don't get is..  Why are those servers faster than your own ISP DNS
02:39 < xamithan> Does my ISP just not care ?
02:40 < suttin> xamithan: not caring, tracking your traffic, injecting adds
02:40 < suttin> a whole number of reasons
02:41 < mod> weirdwe~.
02:41 < mod> ~.
02:42 < mod> heh nice
03:00 < triceratux> [    0.000000] Linux version 4.16.2-exton (root@mate-u) (gcc version 7.3.0 (Ubuntu 7.3.0-16ubuntu3)) #1 SMP Mon Apr 16 11:35:04 CEST 2018
03:12 < collins> is a ssh public key able to decrypt something encrypted with its private key? As far as I know: yes. As far as some text I'm reading: no.
03:15 < Dan39> collins: i thought that was the point of it? :|
03:18 < snugger> HmMAMMAM
03:18 < collins> Dan39: sure. But mathematically (RSA) they're just a pair where neither are public nor private but you can pick an arbitrary one as either pub or priv of your chosing. They encrypt/decrypt each other.
03:19 < collins> however, ssh-keygen and similar gives the pub one a special property (set sone of the RSA attributes to zero or something) that makes it less fit as a priv key. Dunno why.
03:19 < Dan39> collins: oh, interesting
03:20 < dogbert2> actually, when it works properly, it always gens two keys...the private one you keep secret and safe, the public key you distribute to whoever you want to
03:21 < ||JD||> collins: I think it depends on the crypto
03:21 < Celmor> how do I allos myself to write to a FAT formatted flash drive? do I have to change mount options or can I change permissions live via chmod/chown to allow anyone to write to it?
03:21 < suttin> and then a symmetric key is used to encrpyt the actual traffic, and thats just one key
03:21 < dogbert2> they sign or encrypt stuff with the public key, and you decrypt it with the private key
03:21 < snugger> Is there any practical use for JFS these days?
03:21 < suttin> the public/private is for authentication
03:22 < suttin> in regards to ssh
03:22 < suttin> so when you ssh, there are 3 total keys being used
03:22 < collins> Dan39: that's how web certificates works. You have the public keys (certificates) and you use them to decrypt something encrypted with the private key of the certificate to confirm it: only the one with the privkey of the cert can encrypt it so that it can be decrypted with the pub key that everyone has
03:22 < Dan39> yea i knew that :p
03:23 < snugger> Is there a filesystem that can support a 17tb file?
03:24 < Celmor> zfs: Max. file size: 16 exbibytes
03:24 < snugger> thanks
03:25 < Dan39> why do you need files so big snugger ?
03:25 < Celmor> Max. volume size    256 trillion yobibytes (2^128 bytes) ;)
03:25 < suttin> snugger: xfs is 9 billion terabytes on a 64bit system
03:25 < Celmor> maybe to make an image of a 16tb disk?
03:26 < Celmor> 17*
03:26 < blaztek> And WoW will take 3 of them
03:28 < Dan39> Celmor: but there's not a good reason i can think of not to split up a disk image
03:29 < Dan39> just curious
03:29 < dogbert2> LOL...
03:29 < dogbert2> needed to replace the AAA batteries in my keyboard...works much better now :P
03:31 < Celmor> applications usually expect a single file for restoring/backup
03:31 < snugger> Anybody remember
03:31 < snugger> https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.32/figures/gnome-2-32.png.en_GB
03:31 < snugger> This?
03:32 < Psi-Jack> Well, this is good. System that was before crashing, has not done so since the blow-out maintenance.
03:33 < Psi-Jack> Amazing what a little dusting off, heatsink cleaning from the caked on dust, and replacement exhaust fan can make. :)
03:33 < Celmor> for me xorg keeps on freezing every couple days
03:34 < Psi-Jack> Celmor: Oh? Whatcha runnin with?
03:34 < Celmor> you mean hardware or desktop env?
03:34 < Psi-Jack> Both.
03:35 < Celmor> 6700K, Z270, i3-wm
03:35 < Psi-Jack> 6700K? Z270?
03:35 < Celmor> yeah?
03:35 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, Intel model number. (make helps.)
03:35 < Celmor> and mobo series
03:35 < Psi-Jack> ASUS or MSI?
03:35 < Psi-Jack> Or Intel? :p
03:36 < Celmor> asrock
03:36 < qmm> i would like to have an email shared between another person and me. what is the right way to do this?
03:36 < Psi-Jack> That seems to be more specifically a chipset, than a motherboard model.
03:36 < Celmor> using i915, keep having issues with it
03:36 < Celmor> asrock z270 extreme 4 (iirc)
03:37 < ananke> qmm: we'd need more context. as it stands, it's not even a linux related question
03:37 < Psi-Jack> Was just about to ask if that was it,. :)
03:37 < Psi-Jack> Skylake CPU, hmm
03:37 < Psi-Jack> Video?
03:38 < Celmor> integrated GPU
03:38 < Celmor> (for which i915 is the kernel module/driver for, which I already mentioned)
03:38 < Psi-Jack> Gotcha.
03:39 < Celmor> there, everything i915 related https://ptpb.pw/7Sc5
03:39 < Psi-Jack> Sounds like a pretty sound hardware setup.
03:39 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmm
03:40 < Psi-Jack> Are you using the xf86-video-intel drivers?
03:40 < Celmor> when whatever happens happens all xorg applications go into unkillable state and I have to reboot
03:40 < Celmor> yeah
03:40 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. I wonder if just getting a decent video card would solve your problems.
03:40 < Celmor> I can still connect via ssh, don't see any new messages in xorg log
03:40 < Celmor> I have one but my VM uses it
03:41 < Celmor> would've gone for a xeon if I didn't need the iGPU for host system
03:41 < Psi-Jack> IOMMU PCI Pass through?
03:41 < Celmor> yeah
03:41 < Psi-Jack> What OS is that runnin?
03:41 < Celmor> arch
03:41 < Psi-Jack> And the VM?
03:41 < Celmor> win10
03:41 < Psi-Jack> Ahh. There's your problem! :)
03:41 < triceratux> ah itz this stuff. its not buggy ubuntu or buggy systemd. its just buggy https://www.google.com/search?q="%2Frun%2Fresolvconf%2Fresolv.conf"
03:42  * triceratux still thinks it shouldnt be buggy to begin with
03:42 < Celmor> well, windows is running virtualized so it shouldn't affect the host system
03:42 < Celmor> especially not xorg
03:43 < Psi-Jack> heh. Windows always infects... I mean effects.. Everything it touches. :)
03:43 < Celmor> don't have to be running the VM for i915 to glitch out
03:43 < Celmor> for now I have accepted the "bugginess" of i915
03:43 < Psi-Jack> But, I mean, a good idea would be to try running without the VM for a few days, see if that helps, and if not, try running with the off-board video, and see if that helps.
03:44 < Psi-Jack> If it's the board, a second video card could resolve the issue. ::)
03:44 < Celmor> well, if intel wouldn't be so greedy with pci lanes I might
03:45 < Psi-Jack> Personally, besides for home servers, I avoid getting on-board video motherboards.
03:45 < Celmor> on-board meaning physicially on the mainboard or iGPU in CPU package?
03:45 < Psi-Jack> Eh? That mobo claims to support Quad SLI and AMD-3way CrossFireX
03:45 < Psi-Jack> Either. I don't do Intel. :)
03:45 < Psi-Jack> Thus, I don't do iGPUs.
03:45 < Celmor> support is one thing, CPU providing the necessary lanes another
03:46 < Psi-Jack> Eh?
03:46 < Celmor> then what GPU do you use? nvidia is only good when using proprietary driver, amd's open-source drive is still not matured
03:46 < Psi-Jack> CPU doesn't care about the lanes...
03:46 < Psi-Jack> I use Nvidia for my desktop.
03:47 < Celmor> CPU providies a number of PCIe lanes for PCIe devices, if you don't have enough PCIe devices will share lanes so less bandwith for each device
03:47 < Psi-Jack> My inherited laptop happens to be Intel though, with Intel video, touch screen.
03:47 < Celmor> and I'm using an NVMe drive
03:47 < Psi-Jack> My work laptop is Intel Kabylake, with Intel video as well, though I didn't really get into it much yet.
03:48 < Celmor> have one with a haswell
03:48 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm. I've never heard of that before.
03:48 < Celmor> of what?
03:48 < Psi-Jack> What you're talking about with the lanes vs cpu.
03:49 < xamithan> How much bandwidth do you need bro
03:49 < ayecee> all of it
03:49 < Celmor> Psi-Jack https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/6fp7rv/eli5_what_exactly_are_pcie_lanes_used_for_and_why/dijwx40
03:49 < xamithan> A crappy videocard that is equivalent to your onboard doesn't need a x16 slot
03:49 < Psi-Jack> Bleh, reddit. Unreliable resource.
03:50 < Celmor> as I said above, I have an nvme drive
03:50 < Celmor> that 1 comment should be good enough
03:52 < Celmor> last time xorg got stuck I started my browser and saw something about the browser process in dmesg
03:53 < Celmor> https://ptpb.pw/-aUu
03:54 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. The 6700K does in fact say Max # of PCIe Lanes: 16. Interesting.
03:54 < Psi-Jack> NVMe uses between 4 and 8 lanes.
03:56 < Celmor> 16 directly attached to CPU, 4 provided by chipset, my nvme uses 4
03:57 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmm... So this is why the AMD Threadripper whips the llama's ... you know what. ;)
03:58 < RioS2> I have a samsung exynos5440-ssdk5440 arm board, I can't get the kernel to output to /dev/ttySAC0, so I can't see anything after Starting kernel ... (I tried building kernel w/ serial support, but still nothing)
03:58 < RioS2> anyone have an image or kernel i can use for testing?
04:01 < Celmor> yep, wish for a threadripper but IOMMU PCI passthrough was kinda buggy on that platform
04:01 < Celmor> Psi-Jack, ^
04:01 < Kremator> guys, (specifically male) how can i say "im a unix sysadmin and fucking dev" in a sexy way i can get a girl intereted in?
04:01 < ayecee> could start by leaving out the eunuchs
04:02 < placebo> Kremator: you cant
04:02 < Kremator> ayecee, eunukhs?
04:02 < ayecee> "computer janitor" has a nice ring to it
04:02 < Psi-Jack> heh
04:03 < Celmor> "I make many through magic"
04:04 < Celmor> "through thunderbolts running through basicallky rock"
04:04 < suttin> technical technician
04:04 < suttin> "through thunderbolts running through rock we tricked into thinking"
04:05 < dell00> Kremator: no one's attracted to UNIX beards and people people who spend their time on mundane tasks of maintaining servers or writing code (also mundane)
04:05 < Psi-Jack> Celmor: Hmm? What's buggy about it?
04:06 < Kremator> ayecee, placebo, i jus 2 hoursa ago the opórtunity of my life, and i took it, but i want to repeat it and rum dont cut it anyore
04:07 < Celmor> Psi-Jack, for example the GPU not properly resetting after it was used by a VM and requiring a reboot of host
04:07 < Celmor> though there's a patch out there afaik
04:07 < Celmor> Ryzen is mostly working from what I've heard
04:07 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, I've been staying back saving money slowly but surely waiting for the Ryzen line to mature, and Linux support for it to also mature.
04:08 < Psi-Jack> Especially with the whole Ryzenfall, Chimera, etc vulnerabilites found.
04:08 < LissajousPattern> cool my linux laptop is working
04:08 < Celmor> gz
04:08 < Celmor> Psi-Jack, intels meltdown was worse
04:08 < Celmor> or still is
04:09 < Psi-Jack> Yes, it is.
04:09 < Kremator> dell00, what is not mundane (appart from being mutimillionaire) in girls' paradigm?
04:09 < Psi-Jack> AMD FTW for not having Meltdown. :)
04:10 < suttin> Kremator: i have a fiance. shes normal. im a unix admin getting into the dev space
04:10 < suttin> almost all of my coworkers are married or engaged
04:10 < placebo> what does the kremator wants?
04:11 < suttin> a mail order bride
04:11 < Celmor> they beed to share their "special" knowledge to the "world" then
04:11 < Psi-Jack> suttin: I have a Japanese/Okinawan wife.
04:16 < Psi-Jack> Awesome. By now, by patterns of last night and today, this computer would've definitely crashed, but it's still running solid. :)
04:16 < Psi-Jack> And fast, and responsive. I had noticed that it got extremely slow to ssh and do anything on the shell before it'd crash.
04:17 < dogbert2> now have my own DDNS setup with noop.com :)
04:19 < ttyX> are there any meeting applications for linux that don't suck?
04:19 < Psi-Jack> "meeting applications?"
04:19 < ttyX> I tried FCC yesterday and the screen sharing lag was unbearable at times
04:19 < Psi-Jack> What are you expecting to be able to do?
04:19 < ttyX> Psi-Jack, GTM, Webex alternatives so to speak
04:19 < Psi-Jack> That doesn't explain what you're expecting.
04:20 < ttyX> Mostly screen sharing with chat & voice
04:20 < ttyX> Don't need video
04:20 < Psi-Jack> Tried google hangouts?
04:20 < ttyX> does it work on Linux?
04:20 < Dan39> teamviewer? :P
04:20 < Psi-Jack> Yes
04:21 < Psi-Jack> I won't recommend teamviewer due to it's partial processes requiring root.
04:21 < ttyX> Psi-Jack, doesn't hangout require a chromium based web browser?
04:21 < Dan39> i run the windows exe with wine as user and it works great
04:22 < ttyX> Last I checked it didn't work on Firefox
04:22 < Psi-Jack> ttyX: No.
04:22 < Dan39> but yea, something FOSS would be nice
04:22 < Celmor> Dan39, can you share your desktop through teamviewer through wine?
04:22 < Dan39> yea
04:22 < Celmor> neat
04:22 < Dan39> xorg at least
04:23 < Dan39> probably doesn't work with wayland
04:23 < Celmor> as long as everything runs in userspace and nothing as root...
04:24 < Guy1524> Not sure if I should post this on ##ubuntu, but I am about to migrate an Ubuntu installation from a HDD to a SSD.  The SSD is larger that the HDD.  What is my best option, reinstalling, copying the files, using dd?  People online say different things
04:24 < zumba_ad_> so today, I learned from engineering team about our redhat on 2.6.18 kernel(LOL) reboots. He mentioned something about watchdog, iostat, etc.  I couldn't understand what he was saying because of his accent. He was also saying something about running out of memory which causes reboots. Really? I don't buy it. What are your thoughts?
04:24 < Guy1524> some say that if I do a direct copy, things like swap and TRIM will need to be disabled
04:24 < Guy1524> some other people say I shouldn't use ext4 on an SSD
04:24 < xamithan> Guy1524: Why not just clone it over then expand the partition|filesystem using gparted ?
04:24 < Guy1524> and others say that I should use ext4, but offload journaling and use noatime
04:25 < xamithan> Modern SSD don't need trim or swap disabled or anything like that,  you getting information from 10 years ago
04:25 < Guy1524> xamithan: some say that will reduce its lifespan needlessly since that copies the empty space as well
04:25 < Celmor> depending on how full the ssd is and your ability to create a bootable drive, rsync is a good option
04:25 < zumba_ad_> oh watchdog does the reset! http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/psc/watchdog/watchdog-background.html
04:25 < xamithan> It might,  but with a 112 year expected lifespan who cares
04:25 < Celmor> otherwise, gparted should be fine
04:26 < Celmor> but depends on how your install is set-up to boot
04:26 < Guy1524> ok, and ext4 is a fine filesystem for SSDs?
04:26 < xamithan> Yes
04:26 < zumba_ad_> What's not good right? Why would you reboot a system especially when it's busy serving request
04:26 < xamithan> I use it on my laptop
04:26 < Celmor> what else are people recommending? is perfectly fine>?
04:26 < xamithan> and my servers
04:26 < zumba_ad_> What's/That's
04:26 < stevendale> o/
04:26 < Guy1524> ok, but some say ext4 is designed for HDDs
04:26 < stevendale> What are we recommending and what for Celmor
04:26 < xamithan> lol
04:27 < Guy1524> I'll trust you all though and do the clone / expand
04:27 < xamithan> Well it was designed before SSDs came about if that is what you mean
04:27 < xamithan> early SSDs had a problem with it sure,  because they were made crappy with bad write cycles
04:27 < Guy1524> well some people I saw have concerns about hard-drive-specific features like localized files
04:27 < Celmor> stevendale, I was asking him what other filesystems were people recommending as opposed to ext4
04:27 < Celmor> for ubuntu that should be fine
04:28 < Guy1524> one person said to use "btrfs"
04:28 < xamithan> Guy1524: Just do what I did and ask the manafacturer of your SSD
04:28 < stevendale> btrfs if you know what you're doing, for a new user, ext4 is the one to go with
04:28 < Guy1524> it's a standard samsung SSD
04:28 < xamithan> From 2002 ?  new ?
04:28 < Celmor> probably an openSUSE guy
04:28 < Guy1524> new
04:28 < Celmor> that's pretty much the only distro using btrfs as standard
04:28 < Guy1524> just got it a few days ago
04:29 < Psi-Jack> Guy1524: btrfs, while had some potential, is not all that reliable in actual use. For SSD, it had a fancy feature of whole-disk wear leveling, but now-a-days, wear-leveling is handled at the firmware level of good SSD drives.
04:29 < Celmor> personally I'm using ZFS but that's a whole 'nother can of worms
04:29 < Psi-Jack> Celmor: Well, the only people developing brtfs are opensuse devs. heh
04:29 < xamithan> ZFS is too RAM hungry for me Celmor
04:29 < Guy1524> ok, thanks for the advice, I'll get to work now (:
04:29 < stevendale> XFS or JFS
04:29 < Celmor> well, it uses free memory for caching, you can tell it to leave it alone though
04:30 < alexey-nemovff> Guy1524: journaling has nothing to do with
04:30 < Celmor> a differen't cache than linux' own file cache, had issues at first starting VMs when zfs was using most memory for caching but then I had libvirt drop caches before
04:30 < alexey-nemovff> Guy1524: journaling has nothing to do with damaging your SSD..
04:31 < Psi-Jack> alexey-nemovff: It could actually.
04:31 < stevendale> If you have an SSD 50 gigs or below (especially the 4 gigabyte ones in the Eee PC 701), it's better to use ext2
04:31 < Psi-Jack> Traditional journals used a specific location in the filesystem. On SSD's that don't have firmware wearleveling, this is bad.
04:31 < Celmor> his ssd is larger than HDD so I don't think it's small
04:32 < Psi-Jack> Size doesn't matter. :)
04:32 < xamithan> Do they even still make SSDs that have that issue though Psi-Jack ?
04:32 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: Yes, actually.
04:32 < xamithan> =(
04:32 < Celmor> samsung SSD (evo/pro) should be fine
04:32 < Psi-Jack> Yep.
04:32 < Celmor> their controller is pretty modern
04:33 < xamithan> I know crucial is good,  all the samsungs,  the intel pro
04:33 < Psi-Jack> Crucial is not that good. heh
04:33 < Psi-Jack> Nor Intel.
04:33 < xamithan> Well good as in not die from stuff like that,  not performance wise,  lol
04:33 < stevendale> Let's all go to Seagate HDDs
04:33 < Psi-Jack> I've killed more Crucial and Intel SSDs...
04:33 < Celmor> I only trust my linux main install to a good Samsung pro ssd
04:34 < xamithan> From regular use?  Or did you throw a huge DB on there
04:34 < Celmor> my first SSD every, a crucial m4 128G is still living, another intenso and crucial I bought later already died
04:34 < Guy1524> after I clone the disk, should I remove the swap partition and enable TRIM?
04:34 < stevendale> Yes Guy1524
04:34 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: I wrote a script that would kill a lot of SSDs with constant writes, deleted, rewrites, etc.. I sent several hundred Intel SSDs, different models, back to Intel.
04:34 < stevendale> Trim is called 'discard' in /etc/fstab
04:35  * zumba_ad_ thinks the culprit that makes our redhat unstable is the Tomcat running
04:35 < Celmor> but make sure you have enough RAM
04:35 < Guy1524> btw the SSD I got is a Samsung 850 EVO
04:35 < Celmor> free memory
04:35 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: Fact is.. Intel SSDs actually had the /worst/ results.
04:35 < xamithan> Yeah we got a few 120gig of those.  We opted not to buy them again when we went to higher capacity
04:36 < Guy1524> ok, I'll look it up, thx stevendale
04:36 < Celmor> intels xpoint is pretty need though
04:36 < Celmor> neat*
04:36 < Celmor> aka optane SSDs
04:37 < jkli> hi guys all :) suddenly my webserver running nginx php-fpm on centos is extremely slow, high ping, every response in ssh is slow, but when i look at cpu and ram, everything is fine
04:38 < Celmor> maybe check iostat
04:39 < stevendale> http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/1231/Corsair-Force-GT
04:39 < Psi-Jack> jkli: What're you running on that?
04:39 < stevendale> My SSD
04:40 < jkli> vps
04:40 < jkli> or do you mean what kind of software i run, some php cms script
04:40 < Psi-Jack> jkli: What PHP CMS script?
04:45 < dviola> I'm looking to add RAM to my current PC but a lot of people tell me that it's not worth the effort because my hardware is too old, I'm not too convinced about this argument
04:45 < xamithan> If it is still in use how can it be too old?
04:46 < dviola> I don't know, but I currently have 2GB of RAM, I want to upgrade to 8GB DDR3
04:46 < dviola> my CPU is a dual core E5500
04:46 < dviola> it runs linux like a charm
04:46 < collins> why isn't grep '^en...sh$' english_words.txt grepping "english" unless I drop the $?
04:47 < dviola> I refuse to throw it away because it's "old"
04:47 < Psi-Jack> collins: Does "english" end with a newline?
04:48 < collins> Psi-Jack: it's a list of (start_of_line)word(newline)
04:48 < Psi-Jack> Try grep -E
04:49 < collins> still no luck
04:50 < collins> cat english.txt | grep -E 'end$'    nada
04:50 < alexey-nemovff> whenever someone misspell a word and it sends something like 's/wrong-word/correct-word' to make the correction.. what does the first 's' stand for?
04:50 < uplime> > cat | grep
04:50 < uplime> gross
04:50 < LissajousPattern> dviola, if it means that much to you and you want to add ram then go for it.
04:50 < ||JD||> alexey-nemovff: sed
04:50 < collins> uplime: I ran just grep, the tried to cat and grep it as well
04:50 < ||JD||> man sed
04:51 < dviola> LissajousPattern: ok
04:51 < uplime> alexey-nemovff: its a sed command for substituting one string for another
04:51 < Psi-Jack> useless use of cat, piped to grep.
04:51 < LissajousPattern> dviola, its only going to improve the thing you already are currently enjoyiong
04:51 < dviola> LissajousPattern: I'll probably upgrade the CPU also, I heard Q6600 are still good
04:51 < dviola> LissajousPattern: nice
04:51 < xamithan> They are good,  I got a Q6600 in my closet
04:51 < ||JD||> dviola: I wouldn't spend money upgrading that hardware either, which doesn't mean you have to discard it
04:52 < dviola> hardware in brazil is unfortunately more expensive than in the US and other places
04:52 < alexey-nemovff> got it
04:52 < alexey-nemovff> thank you
04:52 < Psi-Jack> alexey-nemovff: What type of RAM?
04:52 < Psi-Jack> Err.
04:52 < Psi-Jack> dviola: ^
04:53 < collins> why is    grep '^...$' english.txt   grepping things with two letters?
04:53 < collins> oh, I get it. $ is the third letter.
04:53 < collins> $ isn't counted.
04:53 < ||JD||> dviola: you don't need to tell me that, I'm from Argentina, still doesn't worth an upgrade IMO
04:54 < collins> grep '^e....sh.$' english.txt    I suspect that wordlist was compiled on windows where \r\n is a newline
04:55 < Psi-Jack> collins: Sounds plausible.
04:55 < dviola> ||JD||: would you suggest to replace everything instead?
04:55 < collins> I thought that was dead even on windows
04:55 < stevendale> If Russia puts the cross-hair on Australia again, I'll disconnect my Windows XP computers from the internet, just like I did when they ran a portscan on the whole freaking continent
04:56 < Psi-Jack> dviola: What type of RAM?
04:56 < dviola> Psi-Jack: the one I plan to buy? DDR3 1333 mhz
04:57 < Psi-Jack> DDR3? That's still reasonably current.
04:57 < stevendale> Bah RAM speed... Screw that... 800 MHz DDR2 is good enough as long as it's in Dual-Channel!
04:57 < dviola> Psi-Jack: I'm currently on 2GB RAM DDR2 800 mhz and it sucks, too slow and I use this machine for work :P
04:57 < Psi-Jack> Oh? Your board supports both DDR2 and DDR3?
04:57 < Psi-Jack> That's.. Unusual.
04:57 < stevendale> I have two mobos that do that too Psi-Jack
04:57 < dviola> Psi-Jack: apparently, it does
04:58 < Psi-Jack> That uses different slots for the different types of memory?
04:58  * stevendale is on 4 GB DDR2 800, is also running XP on that computer, so that could be another factor to the speed he is experiencing
04:58 < stevendale> Yeah Psi-Jack
04:58 < stevendale> Four ram slots
04:59 < stevendale> Two DDR2 two DDR3
04:59 < Psi-Jack> Hmm.
04:59 < stevendale> It can only activate one couple at a time though Psi-Jack
04:59 < Psi-Jack> Makes sense. Just seems silly. To me. Hehe
05:00 < stevendale> If you have DDR3 and DDR2 in at the same time it doesn't work :P
05:00 < Psi-Jack> Right
05:00 < LissajousPattern> well is there a way to get rid of windows compketely on a laptop that came with win10?
05:00 < LissajousPattern> isn't the product key stored in the bios?
05:00 < Psi-Jack> I might have and those  a while back and thought the same thing.
05:00 < stevendale> LissajousPattern: Yeah, wipe the GPT and switch it to Legacy/BIOS boot mode
05:00 < Psi-Jack> LissajousPattern: no its not
05:00 < stevendale> No it's not LissajousPattern
05:01 < LissajousPattern> word
05:01 < LissajousPattern> thanks
05:01 < stevendale> Microsoft has your motherboard serial on their servers
05:01 < stevendale> It remembers your computer for you
05:01 < LissajousPattern> stevendale, oh ok good to know
05:01 < stevendale> So if you reinstalled 10, it'd activate, but only after you connected it to internet
05:01 < Psi-Jack> That's an old myth that the windows key is stored in bios. Heh
05:01 < LissajousPattern> yeah well I have a backup win10 USB
05:02 < LissajousPattern> Psi-Jack, yeah cool I wasn't sure
05:02 < alexey-nemovff> dviola: my Mac (Intel Core2 Duo T8300 @ 2.4GHz, running Linux) used to have 2 GB RAM then I d
05:02 < alexey-nemovff> I upgrade RAM to 4 GB
05:03 < stevendale> Ran faster alexey-nemovff? :)
05:03 < alexey-nemovff> the speed was noticeable.. no lags at all
05:03 < dell00> What partitioning scheme for ext4 is best?
05:03 < dell00> For me, I would just have one fat partition mounted on `/`
05:03 < stevendale> dell00: All allocatable space for /, one ext4 partition on an MBR and then a swapfile in /\
05:03 < stevendale> */
05:03 < dell00> But many people told me that it's bad.
05:03 < alexey-nemovff> that Macbook is 10 years-old (late 2008)
05:03 < uvvwvwwuuwv> dell00: at minimum i'd suggest a separate home partition
05:03 < dell00> Why?
05:03 < stevendale> dell00: In case your OS breaks
05:04 < stevendale> You don't lose files
05:04 < dviola> alexey-nemovff: nice
05:04 < dell00> Ok.
05:04 < dviola> alexey-nemovff: you still use this machine?
05:04 < alexey-nemovff> yep
05:04 < dviola> alexey-nemovff: nice
05:04 < dviola> I like old computers
05:04 < ||JD||> dviola: what use do you have for this machine?
05:04 < stevendale> dviola, alexey-nemovff: I use a Dell Latitude E5400... Intel Core 2 Duo P8700 @ 2.5 GHz
05:04 < stevendale> It has 4 GB RAM too
05:05 < Psi-Jack> dviola: Anyway, my $0.02 worth. If you are satisfied with your computer as-is and don't plan to buy a new computer in another couple years or so, upgrading the memory is reasonable. I ran my desktop off 8GB on my still running AMD Phenom II x4 Black, ran it with 8GB for ~4 years. Just upgrade to 16GB only recently.
05:05 < alexey-nemovff> constantly.. as a mumble, FTP server BASIC my
05:05 < alexey-nemovff> basically*
05:05 < stevendale> 2 GB is just slow
05:05 < stevendale> 4 GB is usable
05:05 < Psi-Jack> 8GB is the current general "standard"
05:06 < stevendale> :P Yeah it is
05:06 < manjaro_> wtf
05:06  * stevendale is also on XP... the standard for him is 1 GB
05:06 < dell00> My system's RAM is 768 MB
05:06 < dell00> :/
05:06 < dell00> One of the reasons why I run Gentoo on it.
05:07 < stevendale> dell00: Debian LXDE, Arch Linux Openbox or Lubuntu or puppy linux or Windows XP
05:07 < Psi-Jack> dell00: What?
05:07 < CrackerJack> ubuntu 8.04 is 256 mb
05:07 < stevendale> Hey shantorn o/
05:07 < Psi-Jack> 768MB and you run Gentoo, which requires a lot of RAM to do all the compiling? heh.
05:07 < CrackerJack> hahahahahah
05:07 < CrackerJack> lts
05:07 < dviola> ||JD||: it's a desktop
05:07 < shantorn> hello
05:07 < stevendale> shantorn: Remember me from SpotChat? :D
05:07 < dell00> Psi-Jack: On Gentoo, 10 MB RAM is used on startup. I use swap space on my SSD for the compiling.
05:07 < dell00> 2 GB swap.
05:07 < shantorn> yes
05:07 < dviola> Psi-Jack: oh, I definitely plan to get new hardware in the next 1/2 years or so, but for now the hardware is still "good enough"
05:08 < Psi-Jack> swap != RAM
05:08 < dell00> ^
05:08 < dell00> A lot slower than RAM.
05:08 < stevendale> shantorn: I'm just trying to help people in here while I sit at home being a potato... put my knowledge to good use :)
05:08 < CrackerJack> 2 gb ram swap 4
05:08 < shantorn> well thats nice,i hope you also learn along the way
05:08 < Psi-Jack> Swap is indirectly accessable pages of memory that has to be brought into RAM before being accessable.
05:08 < CrackerJack> i use 8 swap 10
05:08 < Psi-Jack> CrackerJack: Never more than 2GB swap.
05:09 < uvvwvwwuuwv> how many distros out there ship with debug info and etc in their binaries?
05:09 < ||JD||> well processor is still a bottleneck, I think it worth a full upgrade
05:09 < CrackerJack> why not
05:09 < stevendale> Having a swapfile slightly bigger than the installed RAM will allow hibernation CrackerJack, dell00
05:09 < Psi-Jack> uvvwvwwuuwv: Pretty much none.
05:09 < dell00> stevendale: Really? TIL
05:09 < ||JD||> also you get SATA3, USB 3.0 and gigabit ethernet, not sure if you already have them there
05:10 < stevendale> Yeah, last I checked Linux puts the hibernation 'clone' of the RAM in the available swap
05:10 < LissajousPattern> well that sucked right as I posted that I was disconnected. oh well
05:10 < stevendale> Thanks shantorn, you too :)
05:11 < CrackerJack> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jCYj7YNhmF/     stevendale  Psi-Jack   and  .....
05:11 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: These days. Not always true.
05:11 < CrackerJack> my laptop
05:11 < Psi-Jack> You can actually have less swap than RAM and still hibernate, depending on your usage. But you can also have a swap file just for hibernation as well.
05:12 < Psi-Jack> inxi, pretty nice little tool.
05:12 < stevendale> Might be time for a new battery before the end of 2018 CrackerJack o/
05:13 < jul> Any good channel for linux-beginners? ##linux-beginers is kind of dead right now
05:13 < Dan39> jul: try ##linux
05:13 < CrackerJack> hahahahah
05:13 < alexey-nemovff> xD
05:13 < Stryyker> looks like a spelling mistake
05:14 < Psi-Jack> jul: Hmmm. ##linux might be good.
05:14 < CrackerJack> not use battery
05:14 < Psi-Jack> jul: Please use the channel, not PM.
05:15 < Dan39> bettery use knot
05:15 < stevendale> I need one myself, my Core2Duo's battery has 67 or 66% design capacity at '100%'
05:15 < Dan39> and yea why you PM'ing me bro
05:15 < stevendale> I am saving up, gonna put a $150+ hole in my pocket...
05:15  * Dan39 slaps himself for talking like a fool
05:15 < ayecee> trying to make friends
05:15 < Dan39> goodnight ##linux have fun
05:15 < stevendale> Night :)
05:15 < twainwek> good morning
05:16 < ayecee> it's fun to stay out late
05:16 < LissajousPattern> gn
05:16 < Dan39> yea but i've been hitting the snooze button too often when waking up for work <_<
05:17 < Dan39> luckily my boss usually shows up even later, so no problem haha
05:17 < CrackerJack> https://imgur.com/a/hXHFi8b   stevendale  100%
05:17 < CrackerJack> see
05:18 < Some1NamedNate> Is, say, a generic i386 linux binary distro-agnostic?
05:18 < Some1NamedNate> well generic linux binaries in general
05:19 < dell00> No.
05:19 < LissajousPattern> how long does it take to compile the linux kernel?
05:19 < Some1NamedNate> depends on the amount of cores per cpu
05:20 < CrackerJack> system power
05:20 < Some1NamedNate> i once compiled a rpi kernel from their github source tree on a pi3
05:20 < Some1NamedNate> an*
05:20 < Some1NamedNate> anyway what i'm trying to say was can a generic i386 linux binary work with any i386 linux distro?
05:20 < LissajousPattern> i7 6700?
05:21 < CrackerJack> nikolov@ubuntu-ivan:~$ uname -a
05:21 < CrackerJack> Linux ubuntu-ivan 4.16.3-041603-generic #201804190730 SMP Thu Apr 19 07:32:02 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
05:21 < CrackerJack> nikolov@ubuntu-ivan:~$
05:21 < CrackerJack> my kernel
05:21 < LissajousPattern> 16GB ram
05:21 < Some1NamedNate> what distro is that, CrackerJack ?
05:21 < CrackerJack> fast
05:21 < LissajousPattern> can you use a GPU to increase the compiling speed
05:22 < CrackerJack> ubuntu
05:22 < Some1NamedNate> LFS?
05:22 < Some1NamedNate> oh
05:22 < CrackerJack> 18.04 lts
05:22 < Some1NamedNate> gasp
05:22 < CrackerJack> kernel is in repo
05:22 < Some1NamedNate> is it your own kernel or a distro kernel?
05:22 < LissajousPattern> I meant the entire thing
05:22 < twainwek> Some1NamedNate: depends
05:22 < Aph3x-WL> LissajousPattern: removing things you don't need can speed it up significantly, i've gotten it down to around 5 minutes to compile
05:22 < CrackerJack> distro mainline repo
05:23 < LissajousPattern> Aph3x-WL, word cool
05:25 < Some1NamedNate> nvm it does
05:25 < Some1NamedNate> i download a generic i386 linux binary of curl 7.30.0
05:25 < Some1NamedNate> ran it on a vm running arch
05:26 < Some1NamedNate> works fine to me
05:26 < twainwek> we call that proof by example in math
05:26 < Some1NamedNate> does it relate to my topic, twainwek ?
05:27 < twainwek> relates to your conclusion based on a single example
05:27 < Some1NamedNate> oh
05:27  * Some1NamedNate smh-ing
05:28 < Some1NamedNate> exactly what i hypothesized
05:28 < stevendale> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/7F8kwNY9wR/
05:30 < stevendale> https://www.hdsentinel.com/storageinfo_details.php?lang=en&model=WDC%20WD1600AAJS Man my hard drive is getting old now :P
05:32 < Some1NamedNate> stevendale your paste, what did you use to print all that sysinfo?
05:33 < stevendale> Some1NamedNate: inxi -Fxxxxxxxxxxxx
05:34 < Some1NamedNate> the curl binary i talked about earlier must be a dynamic binary
05:36 < alexey-nemovff> guys.. what do you thing about GNUSocial?
05:36 < alexey-nemovff> and/or Mastodon?
05:37 < Some1NamedNate> what about gnusocial?
05:37 < ayecee> what do you think about it?
05:38 < Some1NamedNate> never heard
05:38 < ayecee> me too
05:38 < alexey-nemovff> lol
05:39 < alexey-nemovff> https://cyb3rspace.wordpress.com/2017/09/19/sobre-redes-sociales/
05:40 < alexey-nemovff> it's in Spanish but I'm sure you can handle it
05:40 < ayecee> no se
05:41 < alexey-nemovff> xD
05:42 < jul> I have a question. How do I send a message that is not private but it's directed to a particular person in the gemeral chat?
05:43 < Psi-Jack> jul: Type their name, like such.
05:43 < Psi-Jack> In the channel.
05:43 < jul> Psi-Jack like this?
05:43 < ayecee> but with a :
05:43 < Psi-Jack> Or, in most IRC client, type part of the name, hit <TAB>, like ju<TAB>, the rest will auto-add the comma, or :
05:44 < jul> Psi-Jack: ok, thanks
05:44 < Psi-Jack> Welcome.
05:44 < jul> ayecee: ok thanks
05:55 < stevendale> Waiting for an extended smart self-test on an old 80 GB 3.5" SATA HDD
05:56 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: so changing the user file limit.. seemd to help with some stuff
05:56 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Now I just need to get more ram
05:56 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Download more RAM! :)
05:56 < Dominian> hah
05:56 < Dominian> well something is still causing it to swap
05:56 < Dominian> first guess... Plex
05:56 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: I think I solved my problem with one of my hypervisors constantly crashing.
05:56 < Dominian> oh yeah?
05:57 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. I did a maintenance blow-out, dusting, cleaning the heatsink fins since dust piled in. And also noticed the exhaust fan was stuck.
05:58 < Psi-Jack> From fan to heatsink it was practically getting no positive air flow to the heat sink.
05:58 < stevendale> Oh
05:59 < Dominian> haha damn
05:59 < Dominian> yeah that'd cause some issues
05:59 < stevendale> I fixed a problem with my Core2Duo laptop's bottom plastic cover not having any screws and it was overheating because no proper airflow
05:59 < Psi-Jack> I never checked the sensors, and that hypervisor doesn't yet have the nzxt fan controller panel on it.
05:59 < stevendale> I suspect the thermal paste on the laptop is gone, but that's not exactly repairable without a brand new board :P
06:00 < Dominian> stevendale: yah.. that sucks
06:00 < stevendale> I took apart an old GPU and found screws on it that matched
06:00 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: Thermal paste almost never "goes bad" only "is improperly installed"
06:00 < Dominian> speaking of.. I won't buy another alienware
06:00 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Oh, heck no.
06:00 < Dominian> both that I purchased, just outside of their warranty starting having issues
06:00 < stevendale> I want some second hand laptops
06:00 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: I only ever build my own computers.
06:00 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: my area51 I have... wish I could repair it.. it's a nice 14" laptop..
06:00 < stevendale> On ebay
06:00 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: these are laptops
06:01 < Psi-Jack> Ahh
06:01 < Dominian> I need a new keyboard, new monitor and monitor mounts for it
06:01 < Dominian> and a new power supply
06:01 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, laptops.. a bit harder. I've had great luck with Toshiba laptops, though.
06:01 < stevendale> If somebody is willing to give me old laptops, I'll pay for the shipping, given a month or two to save
06:01 < Dominian> ~400 bucks to repair all this.. not worth it
06:01 < stevendale> I'm starting up a local computer repair business, and having spare parts is handy
06:01 < Dominian> stevendale: I think I'm going to call around to the local tech college, see if they could use the old hardware for classes or something
06:02 < Psi-Jack> The HP Envy I ordered for my work laptop, doesn't seem bad, so far, but it does lack in some areas I'd like to have better control of, specifically the fans.
06:02 < kota> stevendale: How "working" do these laptops need to be?
06:02 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: HPs aren't bad.. our company seems to like Lenovo
06:02 < Psi-Jack> And the WNIC.
06:02 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: after using a microsoft surface pro 4... I don't want another laptop for work
06:02 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Yeah, my co-workers tried to get me to get a ThinkPad, I said, hell no.
06:02 < stevendale> kota: o/
06:02 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: thinkpads are great.. run forever.. but I just don't like their design
06:03 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Since whomever Lenovo is now, quality's gone.
06:03 < [R]> and they're super terrific chinese crawpare!
06:03 < Psi-Jack> And untrustworthy.
06:03  * stevendale can't find any PowerPC laptops at reasonably prices...
06:03 < [R]> powerpc
06:03 < [R]> rofl
06:03 < [R]> what, is this the 80s?
06:03 < Psi-Jack> With companies like ASMedia being found to embed backdoors into chipsets alone.... Sheash.
06:03 < stevendale> For me, yeah, I run XP
06:04 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: aye.
06:06 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: The HP Envy I got though is noice. Touch screen, multi-touch capable screen. Flip the screen all the way back, or flip the keyboard side down and have the screen closer, not obscuring the mounted monitors just above and behind it. And it disables the keyboard after a certain threshold.
06:06 < Psi-Jack> I need to figure out how to sense for that trigger so I can enable the onscreen keyboard easier,.
06:07  * Dominian nods
06:07 < Dominian> similar to my surface
06:07 < Psi-Jack> Kinda, but in a much more powerful and power efficient package. ;)
06:08 < Dominian> heh
06:08 < Dominian> I'll stick with my surface
06:08 < Psi-Jack> Hopefully... Tomorrow, this Ceph rebalance will be done, and I will take the time to blow out the other two servers here.
06:08 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Bah. I just... Can't give Microsoft money. For any reason.
06:09 < Dominian> hah
06:09 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: come on.. you heard right?
06:09 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: about their linux distro/
06:09 < Psi-Jack> Nope
06:09 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/16/microsoft-will-use-linux-to-secure-internet-of-things-devices.html
06:10 < syb0rg> Dominian, they are making a full distro?!
06:10 < Dominian> sort of
06:10 < Dominian> I predicted it a while back :P
06:10 < Psi-Jack> heh
06:10 < Dominian> because of what they were doing with releasing a lot of their software etc. open source
06:10 < Psi-Jack> Well, the current CEO is making some huge changes, that's for sure.
06:10 < Dominian> yep
06:10 < syb0rg> so embedded stuff it looks like?
06:10 < Dominian> syb0rg: for now
06:10 < syb0rg> that'
06:11 < syb0rg> *that's still cool
06:11 < Dominian> I really think in the future, microsoft is going to really shift what their OS is
06:11 < syb0rg> at least they aren't working fully against linux
06:11 < Dominian> they've submitted code to the kernel
06:11 < syb0rg> yeah I had heard that
06:11 < syb0rg> I think. I knew they were developing bash for windows for sure
06:11 < Dominian> all of the signs have been there.. they try to do a 'core' only server
06:11 < Dominian> where installing the GUI was optional
06:12 < Dominian> and everythin gcontrolled through powershell
06:12 < Dominian> so.. yeah
06:12 < kristina> so, i have this weird thing, say i have thread A B and C. thread A early on sets up signal dispatch via sigaction, there's a sigsegv handler that does a stack trace and attempts to clean up some important parts before exiting. it also sets a "fatal condition" flag which makes a lot of things not happen. so say thread C cores, because of this flag, thread A will not start an event loop and exit too
06:12 < kristina> quickly, causing C's signal handler to not even run.
06:12 < Dominian> I'm sure they are gearing the way similar to what Apple did with MAC
06:12 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Heh, I've seen that "core" install once in it's early stages. it was .... horrible. A real joke
06:12 < kristina> do i handle that with sigpending and if there are any, wait for them to be handled before exiting?
06:12 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: it's horrible period
06:15 < kristina> linux signal handling is weird as hell.
06:16 < Psi-Jack> Heh
06:16 < Psi-Jack> Grrr... Still 10% degraded data redundancy.
06:17 < RukusX7> thats so degrading
06:17 < Psi-Jack> This morning I was as ~11.9%, between crashes.
06:17 < Psi-Jack> Though last night I was at 22%.
06:17 < Dominian> heh
06:18 < Psi-Jack> alienpirate5: Is that an "away" nick?
06:18 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Ceph is nice. But it can be tedious at times. :)
06:19 < alienpirate5> yeah, is there an issue?
06:19 < alienpirate5> Psi-Jack
06:19 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I bet
06:19 < alienpirate5> Should I not use one?
06:19 < Psi-Jack> alienpirate5: Yes. Please disable the use of away nicks.
06:19 < Dominian> alienpirate5: best to disable it in here.
06:19 < alienpirate5> ok, sorry
06:19 < Dominian> No worries. It happens
06:19 < kristina> is this the right channel for linux question or is it more like meta talk about distros and stuff?
06:20 < alienpirate5> both afaik
06:20 < Dominian> kristina: if questions get really 'kernel' specific, you might want to try ##kernel
06:20 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Yesterday evening, I ripped out a Ceph OSD (disk), from bcache0, backed by SSD, and re-formatted it as Ceph's Bluestore without bcache backing. Thinking it was part of the problem, but turns out it wasn't. heh
06:20 < kristina> it's userland, it's signal handling. not a driver.
06:21 < Psi-Jack> bcache is nice, but it does have some pitfalls.
06:22 < stevendale> 80 GB SATA HDD has zero bad blocks/sectors surprisingly
06:22 < Dominian> speaking of...
06:22 < Dominian> I thought my drive was bad.. but only one unreadable block, which smart already marked as bad
06:22 < Dominian> keeps yelling at me in the logs anyway
06:22 < Dominian> lolol
06:23 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: smart? Smart doesn't "fix" things.
06:23 < Psi-Jack> The drive itself will, and smart would report it, though.
06:23 < Dominian> Either way, it repaired it
06:23  * Psi-Jack nods.
06:23 < Dominian> but still shows it in the logs
06:23 < Dominian> lol
06:23 < Psi-Jack> I do occassionally run spinrite on my HDD's and SSD's.
06:24 < Dominian> never heard of it
06:24 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Best hard drive recovery and maintenance utility ever..
06:25 < Dominian> Windows only eh
06:25 < Psi-Jack> I want Steve Gibson to hurry up and finish SQRL so he can get back to SpinRite 6.1 which should massively improve performance.
06:25 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Nope. You boot it.
06:25 < Psi-Jack> It's FreeDOS based.
06:25 < Dominian> ahhh
06:25 < Psi-Jack> Currently.
06:26 < Dominian> I'll keep an eye on it
06:26 < Dominian> no need to get it right now lol
06:26 < Psi-Jack> 6.0 is like 14 years old. But does its job well. :)
06:26 < Dominian> time to reconfig borg backup timer
06:27 < kristina> but speaking of meta things, i wish bus1 would get mainlined, please let us have sane ipc already.
06:27 < uvvwvwwuuwv> kristina: it's a confusing question about the signals
06:28 < uvvwvwwuuwv> af_unix is pretty legit
06:29 < kristina> no it's not, it's very close but it's not capability based, fd schenanigans will only get you that far without a broker process.
06:30 < kristina> af_unix is only useful because it can pass fds/some audit data ... except we don't have a way of representing a process using an fd, and pids suck in that context.
06:32 < [R]> uvvwvwwuuwv: too legit
06:32 < kristina> in fact almost any syscall that takes a pid should be able to take some form of a concrete fd that represent(ed) a process.  it also means that way, you can use passing fds as means of passing rights to a process.
06:32 < Dominian> 2 legit 2 quit
06:33 < uvvwvwwuuwv> why tho
06:34 < danieldg> kristina: yeah, that's how fuscia handles it
06:34 < kristina> that's how any system with sane ipc handles it, L4, Mach, etc.
06:34 < kristina> Fuchisa is a weird example to bring up.
06:34 < uvvwvwwuuwv> what advantage does it have?
06:35 < danieldg> eh, just the most recent one I was looking at
06:35 < kristina> I'd have gone with L4 as an example but yeah same principle.
06:35 < kristina> uvvwvwwuuwv: it's not a horrible race condition regarding pid reuse.
06:35 < uvvwvwwuuwv> lol
06:38 < zhangxaochen> I've installed qt5 from the official offline *.run file, yet still get this error: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lQt5::Widgets
06:38 < zhangxaochen> during linking time
06:38 < zhangxaochen> why is that?
06:39 < [R]> Qt5::Widgets seems just wrong...
06:39 < [R]> what kind of broken stuff are you comopiling?
06:39 < birk0ff> is there a linux tool to perform xor on ascii strings ?
06:39 < Sveta> you could ask #qt
06:40 < kristina> i really want bus1 mainlined and i want saner handling of pids and allowing more things related to processes to be represented as handles. oh also please programmatic access to procfs and sysfs even if it's through netlink.
06:41 < kristina> patches for the latter were rejected i believe, the saner pid handling is slowly making its way through.
06:42 < kristina> very very slowly.
06:43 < kristina> i should not have to mount a filesystem to iterate over processes.
06:45 < uvvwvwwuuwv> but what about ttradition?
06:46 < kristina> last time i was working with a really stupid system with tight constraints where there was no filesystem mounted basically, i had to write a driver to use a kernel interface because RO rootfs with a single init on it.
06:46 < kristina> that was the constraint, could only have ONE file. no dirs, nothing else, one file (init) in root of a readonly root.
06:47 < uvvwvwwuuwv> no stdio?
06:47 < kristina> oh yeah back to that point, /dev should also have an alt-interface.
06:48 < kristina> uvvwvwwuuwv: there was, through the proxy driver.
06:49 < uvvwvwwuuwv> that sucks i throw a full system in my initramfs never know if you need one
06:50 < kristina> uvvwvwwuuwv: this booted off a nand thing, one nand partition had init tramp+bl+kernel, other had a RO FAT filesystem.
06:51 < uvvwvwwuuwv> takes a good 40 seconds to decompress though :(
06:51 < uvvwvwwuuwv> cdrom*
06:52 < kristina> constraints were: RO FAT filesystem could only have one file and no dirs, only init. kernel you could do what you like. constraint also implied that any ramdisks or anything alike is not allowed, it has to boot using just one initial filesystem.
06:53 < kristina> while i'm at this rant, i guess i should say that making mount not require the mount point existing prior would have solved it.
06:53 < uvvwvwwuuwv> were the file name lengths limited ?
06:54 < kristina> it's not relevant really.
06:54 < uvvwvwwuuwv> or did they license from MS
06:54 < stevendale> What happens when you reach /dev/sda to /dev/sdz
06:54 < kristina> linux supports FAT just fine.
06:54 < kristina> but FAT was not the issue, rather the constraints.
06:55 < kristina> replace FAT with your favourite system mounted as RO with those constraints applied.
06:56 < kristina> and yes if bus1 is ever mainlined i would hope for a syscall instead of /dev/bus1
06:57 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: so could just build the initramfs into the kernel image itself and be done with it?
06:58 < kristina> "constraint also implied that any ramdisks or anything alike is not allowed"
06:58 < uvvwvwwuuwv> why can't you just mount the filesystem
06:58 < uvvwvwwuuwv> do they fire you?
07:00 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: initramfs isn't a ramdisk though, it's basically a compressed archive which is loaded directly into the VFS with no backing store
07:01 < ttyX> Psi-Jack, Hangout didn't quite work for me. Sticking to FCC, they have a native Linux app but with an annoying bug(enter key doesn't work when being controlled by a participant)
07:01 < kristina> Triffid_Hunter: so ... a ramdisk?
07:01 < kristina> you basically defined what a ramdisk is.
07:01 < Psi-Jack> ttyX: The only other solution is to run your own WebRTC-based solution, or Jitsi.
07:01 < kristina> sortof.
07:02 < ttyX> Psi-Jack, Jitsi meet didn't work either, maybe because of our firewall
07:02 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: nope, a ramdisk is a chunk of ram set up as a block device into which a filesystem image is placed
07:02 < kristina> anyway as i said "no ramdisks or anything alike", to rule out any language lawyering.
07:02 < Psi-Jack> ttyX: Hmm, possibly. STUN/TURN is supposed to be able to work around firewall issues.
07:02 < Psi-Jack> To some degree, anyway.
07:03 < SuperSeriousCat> A mc is not a car. It is a vehicle which goes on gas/power and take you from A to B. I kinda defined a car, but its not
07:03 < kristina> initramfs is like a ramdisk. therefore it violates the constraint.
07:03 < ttyX> Dunno maybe will look at firewall logs
07:04 < [R]> kristina: you're like a ramdisk
07:05 < uvvwvwwuuwv> the constraint is your problem, get rid of that and you solved it
07:05 < kristina> now what options do you have in this situation, let's brainstorm people. 1). helper driver (my approach) 2). some namespace schenanigans possibly. 3). something else?
07:06 < kristina> what is allowed under the constraint is getting procfs mounted somehow.
07:06 < kristina> question is how.
07:06 < uvvwvwwuuwv> can you mount it at /
07:07 < Triffid_Hunter> if you can mount things at /, put a tmpfs first, then you have a RW fs and your init could be a self-unpacking archive
07:07 < kristina> then you have to mount sys, and you overwrite init, though i guess that's not a problem if it's pinned.
07:08 < Triffid_Hunter> nah init will already be loaded in mem if it's done by init, just not sure if kernel will let you overmount root like that.. it usually prefers to mount elsewhere then switch_root
07:08 < kristina> you cannot, the constraint is you start with a single RO filesystem with a single binary.
07:08 < kristina> ah yeah you can't mount over a non empty dir.
07:08 < kristina> pivot_root would work but i would exclude it from the "allowed" list.
07:09 < uvvwvwwuuwv> you  probably can't pivot root if you only have /
07:09 < kristina> hm i guess.
07:10 < atif5> hi
07:10 < kristina> so we need to get procfs and sysfs and dev *somehow*. but root is RO. and has no dirs.
07:10 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: well since you've excluded the thing *designed* to handle this sort of restriction (initramfs) I guess you're SOL :P
07:11 < uvvwvwwuuwv> theres some kernel stuff going on to do some voodoo with stdio too
07:11 < kristina> Triffid_Hunter: well not really, easy solution is a driver which is what i did.
07:11 < uvvwvwwuuwv> supposedly
07:11 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: I really can't imagine why you'd be allowed to write a custom kernel driver but not build an initramfs into the kernel image
07:12 < leibniz> wtffffffff
07:12 < kristina> challenge, you control the kernel but not the userland/rootfs.
07:12 < leibniz> hi
07:12 < atif5> hi
07:12 < kristina> and init has to be the first and only process to execute.
07:12 < kristina> on that rootfs obviously.
07:13 < kuri0> How can I make a folder read only for all users including root except for one user ?
07:14 < [R]> use fuse
07:14 < [R]> without allow_root
07:14 < [R]> oh read only?
07:14 < [R]> you can't
07:15 < kristina> any takers on solving the above challenge without a compiled-in driver to work around things.
07:15 < Amis> Hello! How do I programatically unplug and replug an USB device? I have a serial port on USB that sometimes just doesn't work (probably due to long cables) and I have to replug it. Can I do it without physically replugging?
07:15 < Triffid_Hunter> kuri0: if user can write, root can write. trying to exlcude root sounds like you're asking the wrong question
07:15 < kristina> i have a feeling this could be solved with namespaces.
07:16 < [R]> Amis: bind/unbind in /sys
07:16 < Juesto> it should be possible to limit root
07:16 < Triffid_Hunter> [R]: that'll work if it's a driver problem, but not if the device itself has a firmware issue
07:16 < Juesto> ...permissions
07:16 < kristina> you control the init by the way as well.
07:16 < uvvwvwwuuwv> but you can't call mkdir?
07:16 < Juesto> i recall i once somehow managed to lose root special abilities, long ago
07:16 < Triffid_Hunter> uvvwvwwuuwv: on a ro fs? nope
07:17 < kuri0> i just don't want anyone messing with that folder other than the package manager which is suid to a user
07:17 < Juesto> you cant avoid root, apparently
07:17 < kristina> would it be possible for that init to create a namespace and then mount sysfs and procfs there and then reexecute itself there?
07:18 < kristina> (i'm not too familiar with namespaces)
07:18 < uvvwvwwuuwv> i doubt it but its worth a try, heh
07:19 < kristina> can't now, would have to set the same environment as then, it was just an interesting challenge.
07:19 < kristina> of how usable linux would be in that state.
07:19 < kristina> (useless without a helper driver turns out)
07:20 < kristina> but i think i missed out namespaces that time.
07:20 < uvvwvwwuuwv> did you try to mount tmpfs to / ?
07:20 < kristina> tmpfs is a ramdisk-kind thing.
07:20 < uvvwvwwuuwv> so?
07:20 < uvvwvwwuuwv> it's a ramfs
07:20 < uvvwvwwuuwv> not a ramdisk
07:20 < kristina> "constraint also implied that any ramdisks or anything alike is not allowed"
07:21 < uvvwvwwuuwv> ramdisk is initrd
07:21 < uvvwvwwuuwv> ?
07:22 < kristina> a ramdisk is a ramdisk. it's anything backed by RAM storage only, virtual file system in RAM. how you acheive that goal is up to you.
07:22 < Triffid_Hunter> uvvwvwwuuwv: haha I had this conversation too, apparently the file cache is the same as a ramdisk somehow :P
07:22 < uvvwvwwuuwv> create a f ile
07:22 < uvvwvwwuuwv> and embed your files into it
07:23 < uvvwvwwuuwv> whoever is ordering your systems better be paying a lot
07:24 < kristina> it's a solved interesting challenge that i tried to do and did it via a driver years ago, somehow it came to mind just now. and i was wondering if anyone had any alternative ideas.
07:25 < kristina> how is embedding files into your init helping you?
07:25 < kristina> you still can't mount procfs.
07:25 < uvvwvwwuuwv> calloc(1, 1024 * 1024 * 1024)
07:26 < kristina> the goal is to mount 3 filesystems, boot chain is fw-> kernel -> your RO filesystem with just one file.
07:27 < kristina> you control virtually every aspect of it except the constraint that the RO filesystem has one file, no dirs, and has to be the first filesystem to mount at all.
07:27 < uvvwvwwuuwv> oh wait you can't call malloc because it calls mmap which is backed by ram
07:27 < uvvwvwwuuwv> sry
07:27 < kristina> how is malloc solving anything?
07:27 < kristina> i can mmap just fine.
07:27 < uvvwvwwuuwv> then you can mount tmpfs
07:27 < [R]> lol
07:27 < uvvwvwwuuwv> same thing
07:28 < kristina> what is the process of performing such operation?
07:28 < kristina> /init is there. that's it.
07:28 < kristina> you have no mount points.
07:28 < uvvwvwwuuwv> /
07:28 < kristina> you can't create them because your rootfs is read only.
07:29 < kristina> you can't mount over / if it's not empty i think?
07:29 < uvvwvwwuuwv> wwell im not about to test that ;)
07:30 < kristina> and pivot_root requires a mount point i believe.
07:30 < kristina> sure you can mmap or do anything you like, any syscall.
07:30 < uvvwvwwuuwv> yeah but who knows what happens if they both point to /, someone probably tests this stuff?
07:31 < kristina> i think i tried it and got an error.
07:31 < kristina> because init was in / so / is not a valid mountpoint.
07:31 < kristina> because it's not empty.
07:32 < kristina> it's why pivot_root is required to remount from initramfs or w/e,  but there there are no such constraints.
07:33 < kristina> my only possible idea that doesn't involve a driver involves abusing a namespace.
07:37 < kristina> i'll relax the constraint a bit, you can from the init (not from the kernel helper though), mount a ramdisk if you find a way.
07:37 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: actually, you can mount over non-empty dirs
07:37 < Triffid_Hunter> so having init mount a tmpfs on / should work fine
07:38 < Triffid_Hunter> then unpack a rootfs image and exec the new init in the image :P
07:39 < kristina> so it would mount over itself (/init would be gone, but would still be in memory, presumably now completely wired in) and then mkdir 3 times on a RW filesystem?
07:39 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: yep
07:39 < kristina> and then init can just dump its own ELF image into the tmpfs.
07:40 < kristina> well hm, if mounting over a non empty directory that has a running init without getting something like EBUSY would work, you solved the challenge.
07:42 < kristina> technically i believe it would result in EBUSY unless init unmapped every single file-backed page.
07:42 < kristina> which is fine for the purpose of the challenge.
07:42 < kristina> it could copy itself to anonymous mmap or w/e else.
07:43 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: https://bpaste.net/show/215fbeb1a699
07:43 < stevendale> Dual channel RAM doesn't matter on Windows XP if you already have 4 GB Single Channel DDR3 1033 or faster, because the stick by itself is already way more than twice as fast as the RAM speed it was designed for...
07:43 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: afaik the kernel will keep track of the different mount map that init uses, otherwise things like chroot wouldn't work
07:44 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: so even if its pages gets flushed, the ro fat is still mounted in the background (although invisible to children of init) and the kernel can still get the relevant pages from it
07:45 < kristina> Triffid_Hunter: your example is bad, you're running a shell script, your interpreter is not in that directory.
07:45 < stevendale> Imho MS should've made XP x64 up to SP3 and cut 32-bit XP at SP2, not the other way round
07:45 < kristina> a shell script isn't the same as an executable image with fs backed pages.
07:46  * stevendale waits for W10 to drop 32-bit...
07:46 < [R]> drop it like it's hot
07:46 < stevendale> Arch has done it... Ubuntu is doing it, Debian might too
07:46 < kristina> Triffid_Hunter: can you copy bash into your new dir and run that as the interpreter?
07:46 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: well keep in mind that bash reads shell scripts one line at a time
07:46 < Guy1524_> just dd'd my hdd to my ssd, now I need to find out how to enable TRIM
07:46 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: let's see
07:46 < Guy1524_> im on ubuntu 16.04
07:46 < stevendale> Guy1524 Edit /etc/fstab with root/superuser access
07:46 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: It'll take Debian another 20 years to think about it.
07:47 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: well it'll be tricky because my bash isn't static, have to grab the libs too
07:47 < stevendale> Open terminal Guy1524 and type sudo gedit /etc/fstab
07:47 < Psi-Jack> Guy1524_: Laptop or Desktop?
07:47 < Triffid_Hunter> eh I'll use busybox
07:47 < Guy1524_> Desktop
07:47 < Psi-Jack> Guy1524_: Always one, or powered down daily?
07:47 < Psi-Jack> on*
07:47 < Guy1524_> always on
07:47 < Guy1524_> why does that matter
07:48 < Psi-Jack> Guy1524_: Setup a systemd.timer to run fstrim every day.
07:48 < zhangxaochen> in /usr/lib/cmake/vtk-6.2, in cmake files, it looks weird: https://i.imgur.com/QT5goEI.png, but I don't know how to fix it
07:48 < Psi-Jack> Or rather, every week.
07:48 < kristina> Triffid_Hunter: but yeah assuming this works with busybox running in that dir while you remount it, i guess you win!
07:48 < Psi-Jack> Guy1524_: Because you don't need to have trim running 100% of the time.
07:48 < stevendale> Guy1524 After 'errors=remount-ro' you want to put a comma ',' and then 'discard,noatime,nodiratime': It should look like this Guy1524: errors=remount-ro,discard,noatime,nodiratime
07:48 < Guy1524_> stevendale: according to https://askubuntu.com/questions/18903/how-to-enable-trim  on 14.10 + it's enabled by default, but since I didn't install on this SSD, I'm not sure whether it's enabled
07:48 < Psi-Jack> Like stevendale just told you about.
07:49 < stevendale> That will get the most possible life out of your SSD
07:49 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: Actually the "discard" option will reduce life.
07:49 < Psi-Jack> Running fstrim once a week will improve quality overall, and life.
07:49 < stevendale> Psi-Jack: It'll make it faster...
07:49 < Psi-Jack> Wrong again.
07:49 < Guy1524_> just found out that TRIM is already enabled, sorry for wasting your guys's time
07:49 < stevendale> Actually I am write
07:49 < Psi-Jack> It will slow it down to keep discard enabled.
07:49 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: No, you really aren't correct on this matter.
07:50 < stevendale> Discard clears the blocks that are marked as deleted, so the next writes are faster
07:50 < well_laid_lawn> write is rong in that usage
07:50 < Psi-Jack> Also, most modern SSD firmware handles its own trim internally.
07:50 < stevendale> Then we are both wrong
07:50 < kristina> i fucking hate how building sd-event requires like 20 headers from rest of systemd codebase most of which are for stupid macros or some other shit.
07:50 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: No.
07:50 < Sveta> expain
07:50 < stevendale> Actually yes
07:50 < Sveta> explain
07:50 < Psi-Jack> kristina: Kindly mind the language.
07:50 < stevendale> He shouldn't have to do anything
07:51 < Sveta> you know 'no' 'yes' 'no' yes' does not make a good conversation...
07:51 < stevendale> It should 'handle itself' like you just said and contradicted yourself
07:51 < Guy1524_> ok, now I need to reboot to disable swap, thx for the help (:
07:51 < kristina> what's the worst word i can say in here that won't get me a warning?
07:51 < kristina> i'm a rather opinionated person,.
07:51 < stevendale> kristina: 'yiff', probably
07:51 < kristina> especially about linux.
07:52 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: https://bpaste.net/show/f26a08205dfd like this?
07:53 < sauvin> kristina, most people know to avoid "bad" words and generally have good judgement in the words' relative badnesses, but the real thrust is to promote an air of civility in the channel.
07:53 < fr0b> hmm, looks like gentoo is the best option at this point if I want to put Linux on my old Sun Ultra eh?
07:54 < stevendale> Sveta: 'yes' 'no' back and forth is so we don't start calling each other idiots :-)
07:54 < kristina> Triffid_Hunter: hmmm what's up with that mysterious bin directory there after remount?
07:54 < sauvin> stevendale, calling Sveta an idiot won't get you very far.
07:54 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: the script puts it there :P
07:54 < sauvin> Besides, you need to call her "Dr. Sveta".
07:54 < stevendale> sauvin: Was talking about my conversation with Psi- :P
07:55 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: and copies busybox into it, and creates an ash symlink
07:55 < kristina> ah. well yeah you did this without a kernel driver, gj! i didn't think it was possible.
07:55 < Triffid_Hunter> :D
07:55 < zapotah> scallywags the lot of 'em!
07:56 < sauvin> stevendale: oh.
07:56 < kristina> sauvin: yes but obviously i'm not being uncivil by using a rude word to express a greater degree of frustration, it's not aimed at a person, it's a qualifier.
07:56 < sauvin> There does remain a language policy in the channel.
07:57 < kristina> oh sorry, i wasn't aware.
07:57 < zapotah> its all pg13 and "professional" now
07:58 < sauvin> Well... dunno about "professional" :D
07:58 < Psi-Jack> I'll be your "professional" huckleberry. :)
07:58 < zapotah> since i dont know a single place where even half competent people reside that doesnt sound like a prison at times
07:59 < sauvin> Hey... Psi-Jack... I never use bad language, do I?
07:59 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Sometimes. Seldomly.
08:00 < sauvin> Truthfully, my language can send seasoned Marines running for cover, but I'll never do that *here*.
08:00 < Psi-Jack> It's a lot more rare, these days. :)
08:00 < kristina> heh i thought swearing was the mantra of the main person in charge of linux (well depends on how you look at it, it's either linus or gregkh).
08:00 < Triffid_Hunter> kristina: perhaps, but they're not here :P
08:01 < sauvin> Yeah... Torvalds is really, really fond of nVidia, isn't he? :D
08:01 < kristina> greg doesn't really swear a lot.
08:01 < kristina> but please mainline bus1 already i beg of you :(
08:02 < kristina> is sane ipc in line with all other modern OSes too much to ask for.
08:03 < Psi-Jack> Oh man, this worked like a charm. Fantastic. Testing a migration plan from migrating my Plex Media Server from CentOS 7 to Debian 9, including some level of the watched metadata (the hard part). Linked up to Trakt, pushed from the CentOS server, pulled to the Debian server.
08:04 < kristina> i could see how people hated kdbus because it tried to do too much but bus1 is literally just like L4's IPC system or any other capability based IPC systems that exist on Darwin (Mach), RPC (Windows), L4 RPC, Fuchisa's Zircon IPC which is a clone of L4's IPC model.
08:06 < sauvin> Define "sane IPC".
08:06 < kristina> it's fairly low level and doesn't really force a paradigm on you, you could roll binder-like or dbus like rpc (which would still require a broker) on top of it.
08:08 < Psi-Jack> Heh, I think I need to get another one of these http://a.co/6mmVl9N for my 3rd hypervisor server. The other two already have one, but the one I had to work on today due to its crashing, still has an OEM cooler.
08:10 < kristina> (handle is used interchargably with fd here) 1). process has to be representable by a handle 2). no VFS binding mandatory 3). message based focused on passsing messages to IPC handles/channels (with multicast) 4). ability to impose restriction on a handle being passed without hacks 5). channel handles have to be able to split into write only or read only + extra (aka mach port rights) 6). audit by
08:10 < kristina> handle, not by "pid".
08:11 < kristina> some types like memfd already have that type of functionality sort of.
08:13 < juliang> Is Linux so secure to the point of being paranoid?
08:13 < kristina> that's a hard question.
08:13 < kristina> no.
08:14 < kristina> but a more complicated answer would be complicated.
08:14 < juliang> Indeed
08:14 < well_laid_lawn> there are hardened kernels
08:15 < kristina> it's a nonquestion really, you can harden a lot, but it depends on your goal, your applications that you run, you can have 0days in practically anything etc.
08:15 < kristina> there's a balance that's for you to decide on how paranoid you should be or not be.
08:16 < sauvin> It also depends a great deal on how you perceive your attack surface.
08:17 < kristina> grrrr, god damn signal delivery argghhhhhh.
08:17 < juliang> I see your point. But having to write down my password every 5 minutes is kind of paranoid hahaha
08:17 < juliang> How can I disable that, by the way?
08:17 < sauvin> Why are you issuing your password so often?
08:18 < juliang> I'm trying to learn the command line
08:18 < sauvin> That doesn't answer the question.
08:19 < well_laid_lawn> which distro are you using juliang
08:19 < drsn0w> I would assume sudo? juliang
08:19 < juliang> Well, for example if I need to change to some directories, bash won't allow.me to do it without sudo
08:19 < kristina> run a root shell and use it if you need to do extensive maintenance on the machine, close it afterwards, some people hate the practice but it can make life less painful sometimes. as long as you're at the terminal, you can leave it open.
08:19 < juliang> I'm using Debian with sudo, yes
08:20 < sauvin> Into what directories can you not go without root password?
08:20 < juliang> I'll try that
08:20 < juliang> To / for example
08:20 < kristina> don't run a root shell unless you need to do a lot of stuff as root in a short period of time.
08:21 < drsn0w> that's not normal behavior for Debian, surely
08:21 < juliang> I may be wrong then
08:21 < kristina> and make sure you're at the terminal. and don't put extra crap in /.
08:21 < iflema> sudo -i
08:22 < juliang> No, I don't doore than it's necessary
08:22 < juliang> *do more
08:22 < sauvin> Pointing that out won't solve drsn0w's problem. He shouldn't be sudo'ing at ALL just to cd into directories.
08:22 < fr0b> juliang: sudo  perl -pi -e "s/$USER:[^:]+:/$USER::/g" /etc/passwd ;)
08:23 < juliang> fr0b: I'll write it down, thanks
08:23 < sauvin> Don't do that, juliang./
08:23 < fr0b> no, don't do that
08:23 < fr0b> hence the ;)
08:23 < kristina> you don't need root that often.
08:24 < juliang> fr0b: oh, lol
08:24 < sauvin> fr0b, also: don't do that. Ops get grumpy.
08:24 < juliang> No I don't need to root that often. It's just that I'm following this particular exercise with the mount command
08:24 < stevendale> Tell that to Microsoft kristina o/
08:24 < kristina> for daemons systemd units will have what the app runs as, so well, you only need root for system maintenance really and for controlling the daemon manager i guess for most part.
08:25 < fr0b> sauvin: oh, fair enough, apologies then
08:26 < juliang> Ok, I haven't got there yet
08:27 < drsn0w> In any case, I'm still slightly concerned that juliang needs to use sudo in order to cd to /
08:28 < juliang> Correct.me.if I'm wrong. I saw.somewhere that I need to be sudo to do operations.outside of ~
08:28 < Dagmar> Nope.
08:28 < Dagmar> You _probably_ need it, but that's not how it works
08:29 < drsn0w> You may not be able to write to certain directories, possibly even /, but you should still be able to cd into them and view their contents without root
08:29 < Dagmar> Unless the filesystem is severely screwed up, any user should be able to cd to /
08:29 < sauvin> You should be able to cd into MOST of them, in fact, and read most of the files from within them without needing sudo.
08:29 < juliang> Ok, just not write or execute then?
08:29 < sauvin> Write, probably. Execute, probably not.
08:30 < sauvin> Consider /usr/bin. You can't write to that directory as a regular user, but you can read most (if not all) the files in that directory, and execute most (if not all) of them.
08:30 < sauvin> You can cd to that directory, and do an ls on it.
08:30 < litt> how do we find what are all the services running in systemctl
08:32 < juliang> Ok, while we're at it, there's something that puzzles me a lot, umask. When I create a file at ~ with a umask of 0022...
08:34 < juliang> ... It always creates it with o permissions +rx
08:34 < Dagmar> Nothing odd about that
08:35 < Dagmar> The default permissions for newly created files is 777.
08:35 < juliang> I'm goimg to turn on my pc, because I can't verify that
08:35 < Dagmar> Uh... you can trust me on that one
08:35 < Dagmar> So if you NOT 777 with 022, what do you get?
08:36 < fr0b> litt: here's a hacky way I suppose: systemctl -a | awk '{ if ($4 == "running") { print } }'
08:36 < Dagmar> Answer: 755.
08:36 < juliang> I meam, I want to make sire of what I'm saying
08:36 < Dagmar> Things won't generally set the execute bit on "plain" files, so those get 666, with NOT 022 in play, you get 644.
08:39 < Dagmar> juliang: If you really want to know the gory details, it's pretty thoroughly detailed in `man open`
08:40 < juliang> Dagmar: I'm trying to figure out the meaning of that. Thanks!
08:41 < Dagmar> open() being the C call that _everything_ uses for creating files
08:41 < FXpro> hi
08:41 < FXpro> I want to pen test tails but installing from windows it says it is impossible.
08:42 < sauvin> Huh?
08:42 < juliang> Dagmar: ok, the permissions on created files.with an
08:43 < juliang>  Dagmar: with a 0022 umask are -rw-r--r--
08:43 < FXpro> I tried to use yumi which is a utility that allows multiple distros on a single usb stick for live testing.
08:44 < Dagmar> juliang: Yes, I said that very thing
08:44 < juliang> Dagmar: Those 2 shouldn't mean that it negates "write" only?
08:44 < Dagmar> juliang: Hence my mention of the man page
08:45 < juliang> Dagmar: I'll read.it for sure. So why "execute" is negated as well?
08:45 < Dagmar> Anything creating a directory or a file which it _knows_ should be executable will invoke open() in a manner that sets the execute bits
08:45 < Dagmar> Things creating just "plain files" won't
08:45 < Dagmar> It's not negated in your example, it's just never set
08:46 < juliang> I d
08:46 < sauvin> I'm grateful personally because I wouldn't want some typo having bash trying to execute random crap in an ordinary text file.
08:46 < juliang> Interesting, didn't know that
08:47 < Dagmar> There's a whole slew of O_* flags that can be used in open() to set what permissions one wants
08:47 < Dagmar> Largely everyone just leaves them at the basics and lets umask filter out things the user doesn't want
08:47 < fr0b> sauvin: you didnt like back in the day mounting a windows partition on linux and seeing that sea of green files? :)
08:48 < juliang> Oh yes, I don't want to chamge them. I just wanted.to know the why of that behavior
08:49 < juliang> Dagmar: thanks for the explanation, bye
08:49 < Dagmar> No problem
08:50 < sauvin> fr0b, can't remember what colour they all were. I didn't appreciate ntfs not understanding Linux permissions.
08:50 < fr0b> hehe
08:51 < fr0b> I think everything just came up 777
08:51 < Dagmar> Heh.  When I started, DOS/Windows didn't _have_ permissions
08:58 < fr0b> Still have to decide what old machine to resurrect for a toy, Sun Blade 2500 or Alpha DS10. Seems like gentoo alpha images are more up to date, which seemed surprising....
08:58 < kristina> anyone around who understands linux signals well?
09:00 < Stabington_work> "Cannot join ##windows (You are banned)."
09:01 < Stabington_work> lel
09:02 < geirha> kristina: ask a question rather than looking for topic experts
09:03 < Sitri> Stabington_work: https://pastebin.com/hjDy8Z0D
09:04 < Stabington_work> Nice. Guess they don't like people in the channel
09:05 < Stabington_work> Never actually thought about this, but browsers write a lot of data to cache
09:06 < Stabington_work> Doing data recovery on a HDD, and there are like 10 000 pictures just from cache o.o
09:06 < kristina> "so, i have this weird thing, say i have thread A B and C. thread A early on sets up signal dispatch via sigaction, there's a sigsegv handler that does a stack trace and attempts to clean up some important parts before exiting. it also sets a "fatal condition" flag which makes a lot of things not happen. so say thread C cores, fatal flag is set. because it flag, thread A will not start an event loop and
09:06 < kristina> exit too quickly, causing C's signal handler to not even run."
09:07 < kristina> basically i need pause(2) except one that doesn't block if signals aren't pending.
09:13 < collins> what exactly is an (ssh) key _ID_? Is that its fingerprint/hash?
09:13 < lopid> "so"
09:14 < Sitri> collins: context?
09:14 < collins> Sitri: ssh authentication with key pairs begins with the client sending an ID for the key pair.
09:14 < Sitri> Because the key files are simply hexed versions of the raw binary data
09:15 < collins> What's the "ID"?
09:15 < collins> is the ID a hash of the private key or something?
09:15 < Sitri> How are you getting that information?
09:17 < Stabington_work> Ew, I need to use a 3rd party program to create a ramdisk in windows
09:17 < Sitri> -vvv suggests it's a signed pubkey
09:20 < stevendale>  I'm a serial killer, I'll kill your 9 pin serial port
09:20 < stevendale> o/
09:21 < notmike> What are use cases for serial?
09:22 < Sitri> Kernel debugging
09:23 < collins> and addiction
09:23 < Triffid_Hunter> Stabington_work: heh, ramdisks are still a thing?
09:24 < Stabington_work> I want to store cache in a ramdisk. Don't need it on my SSD
09:26 < Stabington_work> *scratches arm* got some serial?
09:30 < Triffid_Hunter> Stabington_work: heh in linux-land we just use tmpfs which very specifically isn't a ramdisk - there's no translation between files and a block device done by a filesystem driver - it just sticks files in the VFS and says there's no block device to flush them ou tto
09:32 < Stabington_work> See, that is the way to go
09:34 < Stabington_work> In Windoze you need to download a 3rd party ramdisk driver, mount it as a storage device, and format it. Then change the PATH of the temp directories to that drive
09:36 < Sendoushi> hey guys, i'm not in the computer but i have pulseaudio sinking to jack. i can't find my usb interface but i know it is working. my idea: set pulseaudio to the motherboard audio an use jack for the usb. how could i do this?
09:37 < stevendale> Sendoushi: pavucontrol
09:37 < Sendoushi> select the interface on pavu?
09:37 < stevendale> Yep
09:38 < Sendoushi> i couldnt find it there after setting jack and sink
09:38 < Sendoushi> i know that before i had the option and the usb actually showed there
09:39 < Sendoushi> now it shows something like "analog sound" or something
09:39 < stevendale> Try a different USB port, try restarting your computer
09:43 < Sendoushi> ok will try thanks :)
09:43 < Sendoushi> all this because usb interface isnt detected on jack. only its midi
09:44 < Sendoushi> i want jack to control all but some apps like firefox need pulseaudio
09:47 < angelo_ts> hi experts ! what's the proper C C++ way to copy a file into clipboard (i am in openbox)
09:48 < notmike> angelo_ts: https://bytes.com/topic/c/answers/843136-copy-clipboard-file
09:50 < angelo_ts> notmike, thansk, that sounds windows apies things btw
09:51 < notmike> Yeah, it is after all. I'm sure it's trivial to port you your preferred os.
10:01 < Sitri> angelo_ts: Look at the source of xclip or xsel
10:02 < Sitri> (Both are simple clipboard manipulation utilities.  xsel doesn't have an UI so it's probably even simpler to look at)
10:05 < angelo_ts> Sitri, thanks
10:05 < angelo_ts> i could just use system and xclip, but should i assume xclip is always installed with X ?
10:06 < Sitri> It isn't
10:06 < angelo_ts> oh :(
10:06 < angelo_ts> ok i will check that code, good idea, thanks
10:06 < Sitri> You can list it as a dependency, but it's not always included
10:13 < MrElendig> angelo_ts: you could use xlib/xcb instead of relying on an external too
10:13 < MrElendig> tool*
10:14 < angelo_ts> MrElendig, thanks that's what i was looking for
10:14 < angelo_ts> any sample code ?
10:14 < MrElendig> sidenote: people should stop using unsafe languages these dayts
10:14 < MrElendig> days*
10:14 < well_laid_lawn> xcb isn't well documented
10:14 < angelo_ts> ? C / C++ is unsafe ?
10:15 < MrElendig> yes
10:15 < angelo_ts> So all Linux is undafe
10:15 < MrElendig> there is only one "linux" and yes it is full of fun bugs
10:15 < angelo_ts> Linux BSD all unsafe, and embedde world could not exist too :)
10:15 < MrElendig> writing safe C(++) is *really* hard and people constantly fail at it
10:15 < peetaur2> drivers and stuff should probably still use C...something safe that suits that purpose probably doesn't exist
10:16 < MrElendig> anyway https://github.com/awesomeWM/awesome/blob/master/selection.c
10:16 < MrElendig> peetaur2: eh, depends
10:16 < FreeFull> You can write drivers in all sorts of languages
10:16 < angelo_ts> Well, there is no other way for embedded solution, also, there are unit tests
10:16 < MrElendig> peetaur2: a lot of drivers could happily live in userspace and be written in something safer than C
10:16 < peetaur2> angelo_ts: by unsafe he means things like buffer overflows or other ways to execute arbitrary code like a return to libc attack
10:16 < MrElendig> angelo_ts: unit tests doesn't catch use after free, overflows, etc etc
10:16 < FreeFull> If you are looking for a language to write kernels in, Rust can fit the bill
10:16 < peetaur2> MrElendig: please suggest that on LKML...I want to read Linus' response :D
10:16 < angelo_ts> i understand, there are rules to have safer code
10:17 < MrElendig> peetaur2: linus is fine with userspace drivers
10:17 < FreeFull> Rewriting something like Linux in another language would be a huge effort without sufficient payoff, at this point
10:17 < peetaur2> what kind of drivers? every arbitrary thing?
10:17 < MrElendig> peetaur2: in fact he has said before that he would rather have them in userspace than have crappy quality drives in the kernel :p
10:17 < peetaur2> or things like the xorg video things
10:17 < FreeFull> Even if you have some sort of automatic conversion
10:17 < peetaur2> MrElendig: if Linux was a microkernel, would you say the same thing?
10:17 < MrElendig> peetaur2: <insert usb gadget or whatever here>
10:18 < angelo_ts> peetaur2, well more than the safer code, i would worry for the many bugs that exists anyway in user code, of other nature :)
10:22 < MrElendig> https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5499_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312291830_-_x_security_-_ilja_van_sprundel
10:30 < TaZeR> im trying to write a simple script that when ran changes a particular character in a text file and runs a command, for example remove "#" at line 23 of superman.conf and run "krypton -jlv" any ideas how it can be done?
10:31 < tomato> TaZeR: ed!
10:31 < TaZeR> im assuming that doesnt stand for erectile dysfunction?
10:32 < tomato> TaZeR: ed is the standard text editor
10:32 < TaZeR> ohh, well i was more wondering of the syntax i would use to write it then in which editor :p
10:32 < MrElendig> ex
10:32 < MrElendig> sed would also work fine
10:33 < MrElendig> sidenote: match the actual option to uncomment, don't rely on the line number
10:33 < MrElendig> makes it slightly less fragile
10:34 < TaZeR> yea sed looks like something that would be part of it, ideally when its done it could uncomment and the line run the commands then comment it back again
10:34 < MrElendig> 's/^#foobar$/foobar/'
10:35 < MrElendig> sed &&
10:35 < MrElendig> sed && foobar
10:35 < peetaur2> TaZeR: https://bpaste.net/show/eab042036c20
10:35 < peetaur2> TaZeR: and I have no idea when and why you want to run krypton -jlv .... if you simply want to run it unconditionally, just add that as a new line at the end
10:36 < MrElendig> relying on line number is really fragile
10:36 < peetaur2> and yeah relying on the line number is a terrible idea, but it was in the requirements :)
10:36 < peetaur2> so if you like that, then let's work on the "what should I use other than line number?" question
10:37 < TaZeR> peetaur2: thanks i will try it out, the superman and krpyton where just example names
10:37 < peetaur2> and I used awk because you said line number....if you said remove all comments, or remove comments for the key "blah" in a key=value pairs file (like   #blah=123  ->  blah=123), then sed would have been shorter and easier (but less flexible if your requirements change)
10:38 < Yogui> hi I just ran out of disk space on a server (yeah, monitoring was broken) so i learned about tune2fs and its -m option, but it doesn't seem to change anything in df -h
10:39 < peetaur2> Yogui: if root wrote to the disk until it was full, the "reserved space" is irrelevant in the end usage (only the order...users blocked first, then root blocked)
10:39 < Yogui> not root, someprocess wrote to the disk
10:39 < peetaur2> Yogui: first kill whatever eats the space, then just delete some files you don't need, or compress things to somewhere that has space, remove original, move compressed back
10:40 < TaZeR> peetaur2: i actually wanted to add a comment on that line, and then remove it after the command is done running, i had it backwards the first time
10:40 < Yogui> yes thanks that's the plan, but of course that's a mysql and it's notoriously hard to reclaim space with it
10:40 < Yogui> hence my trying to scrounge up some free space before i change the disk
10:43 < peetaur2> TaZeR: so here's a new version that does both... uncomments line 23 and comments line 25  https://bpaste.net/show/b041cf0ffc74   (it'll comment line 25 again each time you run... ############originallinehere)
10:43 < peetaur2> I guess you could change "^" to "^[^#]"
10:43 < aderuwe> Hey everyone, I have a weird issue - no network interfaces use ipv6 afaict, but curl (and lynx, and really any http(s) insists on using ipv6 for dns - resulting in "curl: (6) Could not resolve host", while it works perfectly if i add the -4 option
10:43 < aderuwe> could anyone shed some light?
10:44 < FreeFull> aderuwe: Do you use networkmanager, or something else?
10:44 < peetaur2> can't explain why, but that doesn't work...but this does  https://bpaste.net/show/528cf7a35f46
10:44 < aderuwe> FreeFull: how do i check that? (i've not set up this server, just tasked with solving this...)
10:44 < TaZeR> peetaur2: thanks =) will test it soon
10:45 < FreeFull> aderuwe: Ok, what do you know about what's on the server? What Linux distro is it running?
10:45 < peetaur2> aderuwe: many programs are dumb that way...they don't care if you have an address and only look at whether the kernel has it enabled at all; or some just fail until you explicitly set it like you did with -4
10:45 < aderuwe> FreeFull: it's an ubuntu on azure
10:45 < FreeFull> If you set the network connection to be IPv4-only then everything should work
10:46 < aderuwe> FreeFull: "inet addr:10.0.0.4  Bcast:10.0.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0" there is no ipv6 addr
10:46 < peetaur2> aderuwe: do you have an ipv6 dns server? (cat /etc/resolv.conf)
10:47 < aderuwe> peetaur2: negative, only ipv4
10:48 < aderuwe> and no ipv6 mod seems loaded in lsmod
10:48 < aderuwe> it's really confusing me
10:49 < FreeFull> aderuwe: I'd expect ipv6 to be built into the kernel's IP stack rather than be a module
10:49 < FreeFull> On my system it definitely isn't a module
10:49 < aderuwe> That would make sense I guess
10:49 < peetaur2> aderuwe: the way I'd disable it is:   echo net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1 > /etc/sysctl.d/ipv6.conf    (for next boot)   and sysctl -p /etc/sysctl.d/ipv6.conf  (for this boot...but might have to restart some services)
10:50 < peetaur2> this assumes of course you don't have other interfaces that have ipv6
10:50 < aderuwe> peetaur2: i will give it a shot
10:50 < aderuwe> and no, no interfaces with ipv6
10:50 < aderuwe> only eth0 and lo, and eth0 is definitely ipv4
10:55 < aderuwe> peetaur2: which services might that be? cause i still have the issue now - maybe i should just go for a reboot
10:57 < peetaur2> anything you think might have used ipv6 already...maybe just anything listening on the network... try checking with:   lsof -Pni -i6
10:58 < peetaur2> oops the first i was redundant...   lsof -Pni6
11:00 < ryzendapgh> How can I figure out what font supports unicode characters like U+1D81F for songwriting section of unicode?
11:02 < MrElendig> some of the online services will lists fonts that has the character
11:02 < MrElendig> they usually don't have a great selection of fonts though
11:02 < ryzendapgh> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1d81f/fontsupport.htm suggests LastResort supports the character, but isn't the correct character
11:03 < ryzendapgh> I was just searching using charmap, and found a section of characters for SONGWRITING that this linux environment doesn't have glyphs for. I'm curious to see what they are.
11:04 < aderuwe> peetaur2: that did not solve it... what a weird issue, right...
11:04 < ryzendapgh> oops, signwriting, not songwriting
11:06 < aderuwe> peetaur2: and i went for a full reboot
11:11 < TyrfingMjolnir> What's wrong with this one? alias dns="curl -kL https://opendns.org | grep 208"
11:11 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: what do you intend that to achieve?
11:14 < TyrfingMjolnir> I would like to be able to type: dns
11:14 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: also, why use -k and opendns.org instead of opendns.com and no -k?
11:14 < TyrfingMjolnir> and have this return the dns string
11:15 < TyrfingMjolnir> It's the alias part that does not work
11:15 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: what's "the dns string"? just the ip address?
11:15 < BCMM> the problem *isn't* that you're returning a whole line of HTML, right?
11:16 < TyrfingMjolnir> Nope
11:16 < TyrfingMjolnir> It does not return anything
11:16 < TyrfingMjolnir> Like when I type: ll
11:16 < TyrfingMjolnir> exa -l
11:16 < TyrfingMjolnir> is run
11:16 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: hmm, it works for me...
11:17 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: are you getting "command not found", or just prompt returns with no output?
11:18 < TyrfingMjolnir> command not found
11:19 < TwistedFate> hello folks
11:19 < TwistedFate> got a new HDD today and I would like to test it for faults and performance, can you give me advice on how to do it?
11:21 < TyrfingMjolnir> hdparm
11:21 < TyrfingMjolnir> man hdparm
11:21 < peetaur2> TyrfingMjolnir: make a function instead.      dns() { curl kL https://opendns.org | grep 208; }
11:21 < peetaur2> oops the -  got lost
11:21 < TyrfingMjolnir> man iostat
11:22 < TyrfingMjolnir> in .bashrc?
11:22 < TyrfingMjolnir> peetaur2: Where should the - go?
11:22 < TwistedFate> TyrfingMjolnir: Would hdparm -tT /dev/sdc suffice?
11:22 < TyrfingMjolnir> of the curl param
11:23 < peetaur2> I expect an alias for that would work simply as "dns"...but if you do like  dns 123  instead of curl -kL .... 123 | grep 208   you get   curl -kL .... | grep 208 123. But with a function, you can put your "$1" or "$@" anywhere you want, or split it up like   somevariable="$1"; shift;  (and now $1 is what $2 used to be)
11:23 < peetaur2> TyrfingMjolnir: before the kL
11:23 < TyrfingMjolnir> TwistedFate: Perhaps also: man iostat
11:23 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: are you trying to run `dns` on the same shell you ran `alias` in?
11:24 < TyrfingMjolnir> How can I determine this?
11:25 < hetii> Hi
11:25 < TyrfingMjolnir> BCMM: cat .bashrc http://termbin.com/fhlt
11:25 < peetaur2> when you open a terminal, it starts a shell... eg. ps will show you "bash" and the 2nd column is the pid, and echo $$ is the pid. When you run the "dns" alias, if you are in that same terminal, didn't start a new bash, etc. (can verify with ps to see pid is the same as echo $$) , then it's the same shell (bash is your shell...same shell means the instance of bash with that pid)
11:25 < hetii> why  nsenter -t ${container_pid} -n ip addr change 11.11.11.11/32 dev eth0 don`t change ip but add it?
11:26 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: can you tell me more about the environment you're running the `dns` alias in?
11:26 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: is it a plain old interactive shell, or is it, like, a cronjob or something?
11:26 < BCMM> (and does your ll alias work in the same environment?)
11:27 < TwistedFate> TyrfingMjolnir: Is hdparm -Tt /dev/sdc enough?
11:27 < TyrfingMjolnir> Yes, ll works in the same terminator in i3wm of arch
11:27 < TyrfingMjolnir> TwistedFate: I know the names of those commands; I did not use them for a long time I would not know off the top of my head.
11:27 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: when did you launch that shell?
11:28 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: would closing and opening terminator fix it? bashrc is sourced once when the shell starts
11:28 < TyrfingMjolnir> I just relaunched it as pr :wq of the .bashrc
11:28 < TyrfingMjolnir> Is there a way to print all aliases?
11:28 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: just type `alias`
11:29 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: by the way, i didn't understand "as pr :wq of the .bashrc"
11:29 < TyrfingMjolnir> I relaunched terminator after writing the file: ~/.bashrc to disk
11:30 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: see what alias says. also try manually doing `source ~/.bashrc` to see if that makes a difference
11:32 < aderuwe> peetaur2: so i added ipv6.disable=1 to grub boot options, and the problem *still* persist ... i'm baffled
11:34 < TyrfingMjolnir> Perfect!
11:34 < TyrfingMjolnir> BCMM: That gave me an error; that I now fixed
11:35 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: oh, like a syntax error in bashrc?
11:35 < hetii> how by ip addr can change ip like it does ifconfing?
11:35 < BCMM> TyrfingMjolnir: by the way, is there a significance to -k https://opendns.org?
11:36 < BCMM> seems like that just redirects to opendns.com. the cert used is valid for opendns.com, so just using that directly would avoid the need for -k
11:37 < TyrfingMjolnir> I alsway use -k
11:39 < peetaur2> aderuwe: stupid software will just use what it wants...so just make a wrapper script that adds -4
11:39 < peetaur2> but I'm surprised curl is one of those...
11:40 < aderuwe> peetaur2: but "test -f /proc/net/if_inet6 && echo "Running kernel is IPv6 ready"" keeps reporting that ipv6 is there
11:43 < phre4k> I like the design of thunderbird, but the indexing is abysmal. I thought I'd use notmuch, but can't decide on an interface for it. Is plain notmuch good or are there any "easier" interfaces?
11:43 < BCMM> aderuwe: check /proc/cmdline to see if your boot options were actually applied
11:43 < aderuwe> BCMM: they were not! damn! why would that be?
11:44 < BCMM> aderuwe: well, what did you do to try and change them?
11:44 < BCMM> did you edit /etc/default/grub and then not run update-grub?
11:44 < aderuwe> Edit /etc/default/grub, add ipv6.disable=1 to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT, run update-grub, reboot
11:45 < BCMM> aderuwe: hmmm. pastebin your /etc/default/grub?
11:46 < aderuwe> BCMM: https://pastebin.com/ufdgtB97
11:46 < BCMM> also try `grep ipv6 /boot/grub/grub.cfg`, see if update-grub ever wrote your config
11:46 < aderuwe> That produces no output
11:47 < TwistedFate> how can i determine block size of my hdd? can it be done with hdparm? i was unable to find that in man page
11:47 < aderuwe> BCMM: but i did run it - https://pastebin.com/JhGzrNMy
11:47 < aderuwe> BCMM: this is on azure btw, not sure if that matters
11:48 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: define block?   try out blockdev --getsize64 /dev/sdX
11:48 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: do you mean sector?  smartctl -i will tell you (but it's a db lookup I think, rather than checking what the device reports)
11:48 < BCMM> aderuwe: since microsoft branding is consistently inconsistent: you mean it's a linux vm on the cloud computing service, right?
11:48 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: i've got a new hdd today, and i want to test it through and through, but i dunno how to do it :(
11:49 < peetaur2> and the kernel tells you when you insert a disk, eg.    [1367697.201621] sd 10:0:0:0: [sde] 625142448 512-byte logical blocks: (320 GB/298 GiB)
11:49 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: friend recommended me hdparm and badblocks check when i find out block size
11:49 < aderuwe> BCMM: affirmative
11:49 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: oh..for badblocks.... badblocks block size is arbitrary... you can set whatever you want; if you want to zero some sectors as a result of that, then you would match it to sector size....unless you have too many sectors, then badblocks crashes and you have to make larger block size
11:50 < Ben64> TwistedFate: just start using it, if it dies then you know its bad
11:50 < TwistedFate> Ben64: I had last one Dead on Arrival, really want to make sure that this one is safe.
11:50 < BCMM> aderuwe: and is it the default ubuntu server image?
11:50 < Ben64> TwistedFate: it is impossible
11:50 < Ben64> hard drives can die at any time
11:51 < aderuwe> BCMM: i suppose - i did not set this up, can i check this somehow?
11:51 < BCMM> aderuwe: probably doesn't matter...
11:51 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: try my script with --dry-run    https://github.com/petermaloney/misc/blob/master/disk/diskRepair9.py     (no guarantees that this mode I never use and never tested for ages doens't write, but the code is available for you to test, inspect and modify)
11:51 < BCMM> aderuwe: here they suggest that update-grub should work normally https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/virtual-machines/linux/optimization
11:52 < BCMM> aderuwe: but they are editing GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX, not GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
11:52 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: if there's no data on the disk, the default mode will check and zero the bad ones, and then smartctl -A should show the counts (but some disks always say 0 reallocated)
11:52 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: yeah, its a brand new disk, not even formatted
11:52 < aderuwe> BCMM: i see - but the /proc/cmdline does show the other things in the DEFAULT one
11:53 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: my script is the 9th attempt to solve this problem.... several previous attempts used badblocks, and I found it horrible....not only was it error prone to handle larger disks because of badblocks not supporting them, but sometimes it doesn't even find errors I know about and can find easilly with dd and such
11:53 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: this is what it says in dmesg [    0.959819] sd 2:0:0:0: [sdc] 5860533168 512-byte logical blocks: (3.00 TB/2.73 TiB)
11:53 < BCMM> aderuwe: well, this is a bit odd... you've definitely actually rebooted, right? check your uptime?
11:53 < peetaur2> this was the first where I just abandoned all existing software and wrote it all myself (except I'm calling dmesg, hdparm in this script)
11:53 < aderuwe> BCMM: up 16 min - but i don't mind trying the whole dance again
11:54 < aderuwe> BCMM: i'm completely baffled too
11:54 < choice> Any pros and cons of gzip vs zip?
11:54 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: so then it says it has 512 logical...but it doesn't say physical which could be 4096
11:54 < TwistedFate> peetaur2:  [    0.959821] sd 2:0:0:0: [sdc] 4096-byte physical blocks
11:54 < peetaur2> smartctl should say physical too
11:54 < peetaur2> choice: on linux, just stick to tar and gzip... zip has advantages but they are basically irrelevant if you don't know why you need them
11:54 < aderuwe> BCMM: i'll run update-grub and reboot again
11:55 < peetaur2> and I think modern GNU tar has indexing and such things that it didn't before
11:55 < BCMM> choice: gzip is a formal standard and incredibly widely supported
11:55 < peetaur2> choice: but for better compression try xz, and for fastest but good ratio try lz4
11:55 < BCMM> choice: used in all major web browsers, for example
11:55 < BCMM> choice: gzip is *just* a compression format though - .zip is an archive + compression format
11:55 < peetaur2> choice: see here for some results of compression ratio nad performance where you can see gzip (zlib) is never a winner  https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37614410/comparison-between-lz4-vs-lz4-hc-vs-blosc-vs-snappy-vs-fastlz
11:56 < peetaur2> snappy is also never a winner there
11:56 < BCMM> choice: so one advantage of gzip is you can use an archiving format of your choice with it
11:56 < aderuwe> BCMM: so after running update-grub, i still don't see ipv6 in /boot/grub/grub.cfg
11:56 < aderuwe> have not rebooted yet
11:56 < BCMM> choice: comparing .tar.gz to .zip, well, you get support for unix permission with the .tar.gz
11:57 < choice> BCMM: No using tar here. It's for a script that archives a single file periodically.
11:57 < BCMM> choice: well, you *marginally* decrease overhead by not storing metadata...
11:58 < BCMM> choice: and there's extensive support for gzip on the linux command-line, tools like zgrep letting you work directly with compressed files, etc
11:58 < aderuwe> BCMM: added it to the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX and now it shows up - rebooting
11:58 < choice> BCMM: Tool support is a strong argument!
11:59 < BCMM> choice: are gzip and zip the only formats in the running here?
11:59 < choice> BCMM: Yup
11:59 < peetaur2> reasons to use zip:  (1) it's the only thing you know  (2) your professor/boss/whoever gave you a requirement to use it
12:00 < peetaur2> reason 1 is of course invalid but powerful nonetheless
12:00 < choice> peetaur2: I'm the boss here.
12:00 < BCMM> choice: because compression ratio on both should be similar, as they both use the DEFLATE algorithm, but you can get much greater ratios with modern formats
12:00 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: which problem did you solve with your own script?
12:00 < BCMM> peetaur2: well, there's the windows thing...
12:00 < BCMM> the only reason .zip continues to dominate is that you can extract it on a completely vanilla windows install
12:00 < BCMM> it's not got much else going for it, though
12:00 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: well one attempt was to use smart long tests...the problem with that is different disks report it differently. Some show the test in progress...some only show it when done. So figuring out if it finished is very hard.
12:01 < choice> BCMM: Wasn't one of the arguments for zip that it has a directory so opening it is instant while tar+zip needs to sift through the whole thing?
12:01 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: and as I said badblocks missed errors (to my amazement), and often its output was truncated...like if the disk is so bad it hangs, then the last bunch of stuff in the buffer never writes, and the limit on disk size was bad so you had to use a different block size, then when calculating which sector to give hdparm, you can have some errors
12:02 < peetaur2> my tool prints the sector it's working on the screen, so it's easy enough to resume
12:02 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: interesting.. how did you test disk with badblocks?
12:02 < BCMM> choice: oh that's a fair point actually; file out of the middle of a tarball is kind of inefficient iirc
12:03 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: badblocks -b 4096 -w /dev/sdc is the proper way?
12:03 < aderuwe> BCMM: solved! thank you very much sir
12:03 < aderuwe> peetaur2: you too, thanks
12:03 < BCMM> aderuwe: no problem!
12:03 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: here's my 2nd badblocks attempt, diskRepair7.bash  https://bpaste.net/show/b25381d1a828
12:04 < peetaur2> which I wrote in a comment that apparently also badblocks takes enormously long on errors, so this one had hackery to just quit on one error so I can hdparm it more efficiently and resume badblocks after, rather than just make a log then hdparm all at once
12:04 < peetaur2> so more problems than I can remember :)
12:05 < BCMM> choice: however, i feel like efficient random-access is a filesystem feature, not an archive feature
12:05 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: hah
12:05 < BCMM> we have things like squashfs for that
12:06 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: is the block size shown in dmesg correct one?
12:06 < TwistedFate> physical that is
12:06 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: dmesg seems to only say the logical
12:06 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: somewhere in sysfs you can find the physical
12:06 < peetaur2> or use smartctl -i....I use and find smartctl -i perfectly reliable
12:08 < peetaur2> TwistedFate:  cat  /sys/block/sda/queue/{logical_block_size,physical_block_size}
12:08 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: yep, smartctl shows also Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
12:10 < kamil___> hi guys i installed flatpak theme from command line but this theme don't work and im stuck with default adwaita, any ideas ??
12:12 < kamil___> normal apps has adapta dark but flapak don't work
12:12 < peetaur2> TwistedFate: oh and I found smart long tests to be perfectly reliable too...just you can't script it very well. Just run once, and if it's done without error, you can expect all my tools to show the same. But if there's an error, my tools will zero them and continue (smart long tests will just stop on first error).
12:13 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: -o option in badblocks writes output in text file right?
12:14 < peetaur2> badblocks "${BADBLOCKS_OPTIONS[@]:+${BADBLOCKS_OPTIONS[@]}}" -e 1 -b "4096" -o "$logFile" -s "$disk" $((size*sectorSize/4096-1)) $((nextSector*sectorSize/4096))
12:14 < peetaur2> my script calls that $logFile, so I guess so
12:15 < peetaur2> this script is ancient, and I never found badblocks to work well, so (1) expect poor answers and (2) why are you using it after I have complained about it so much? :P
12:15 < paddy|> where is CrazyTux when you need him
12:16 < TwistedFate> peetaur2: lol, i will take a look at  your script :)
12:21 < stevendale> Microsoft Office 2010 :3
12:32 < pagios>     setInterval(function()  {console.log('a'); }  ,1000);
13:07 < BluesKaj> Hi Folks
13:42 < junka> ssh
13:42 < junka> we have peace of mind
13:42 < SkunkyFone> junka: nc
13:42 < revel> telnet
13:44 < hexnewbie> Hire a teleporting service and do it on site.
13:44 < Celmor> can someone suggest a remote desktop viewer to connect to linux from windows and can make the most of low bandwith/high latencies? e.g. with h264 encoder and not just image compression
13:45 < Celmor> x2go refreshes the whole screen and transfer image block-by-block which is kinda ugly and unusable
13:45 < SkunkyFone> Celmor: what's running on the linux side? vnc?
13:46 < Celmor> can install anything
13:46 < djph> SSH
13:46 < SkunkyFone> djph: ssh on it's own isn't a remote desktop viewer :)
13:46 < Celmor> passing xorg protocoll won't be enough, needs to be able to transfer opengl drawn content efficiently
13:47 < stevendale> Xorg is horrible
13:47 < stevendale> Use Windows
13:47 < stevendale> (Don't do that)
13:47 < Celmor> i have linux on the remote
13:47 < djph> SkunkyFone: no, but it definitely makes the most of "low bandwidth / high latency" connections.
13:48 < Celmor> i need gui though
13:48 < SkunkyFone> Celmor: install x11vnc on the linux box and a vnc client (there are many) on the windos box....
13:48 < SkunkyFone> everybody always "needs" a gui.
13:48 < djph> ^
13:48 < Celmor> i am currently interacting with the linux remote through vnc (irc client)
13:48 < stevendale> o/
13:49 < Celmor> still not optima, need intra-frame compression
13:49 < stevendale> Windows XP Media Centre
13:49 < SkunkyFone> now, that's silly.  irc works fine from an ssh session.
13:49 < djph> ^
13:49 < djph> irssi, and what's the other one, weechat ...
13:49 < stevendale> Win XP Media Centre Edition
13:49 < Celmor> it's not for irc, it's simply conventient because of nickserv credentials etc right now, the use case is something different
13:50 < djph> stevendale: you're gonna get yourself banned here too with your idiocy.
13:50 < revel> Celmor: Do you need the client to be run from the server? If not, then the graphical client likely has a Windows port. If yes, then a terminal client may be better.
13:50 < revel> djph: Here too_
13:50 < revel> ?
13:50 < Celmor> what graphical client? the images are drawn on the remote and i need to get them over
13:50 < djph> I suppose getting the *real* usecase for needing to see the desktop is kind of a key piece of information.
13:51 < revel> Celmor: What IRC client are you using?
13:51 < Celmor> irc isn't the point here
13:51 < SkunkyFone> Celmor: displaying an entire desktop is usually a brute force approach tho... do you really need the whole desktop, or just 1 app?
13:51 < Celmor> i'm not using remote desktop for irc
13:51 < revel> What else do you need GUI for then?
13:51 < Celmor> viewying drawed frames by a program which uses opengl
13:51 < revel> Like, for example?
13:52 < stevendale> o/
13:52 < Celmor> imagine a video game, movie, what ever
13:52 < djph> revel: if "stevendale" is the nick I think he is, he's gotten himself banned elsewhere for derailing discussions with inane comments about EOL'd operating systemd
13:52 < Celmor> something that efficiently transfers the rendered frames, high compression is fine
13:52 < stevendale> djph: The present wouldn't have come to be without the past :)
13:52 < stevendale> Embrace the past :)
13:53 < revel> I can imagine it, but why would you want to watch a movie or play a game via VNC?
13:53 < djph> This sounds a lot like an XY problem (or just lack of familiarity with CLI, which isn't a bad thing) ...
13:53 < Celmor> because i can't physically drive over to do a simple short thing and drive back, what do you think remote desktop software is for
13:54 < stevendale> djph: Yeah I'm the one you're thinking of :P
13:54 < SkunkyFone> Celmor: it's for taking over windows user's desktops and doing things for them because they can't figure out how to do things, of course.
13:54 < revel> Celmor: You can probably do that "simple short thing" with just ssh anyway.
13:54 < Celmor> i heard linux can host an rdp server/session, can it use a video encoder to transfer efficiently?
13:54 < Celmor> I can't
13:55 < revel> Why not?
13:55 < SkunkyFone> because he doesn't know how.
13:56 < Celmor> cause i need to see graphical content and interact with it with keyboard and mouse
13:56 < djph> what is this "simple short thing" anyway?
13:56 < tsglove2> vnc?
13:57 < djph> and no, "like a movie, game, whatever" is not an answer.
13:57 < revel> I just want to know what it is that forces you to have to use VNC instead of ssh.
13:57 < revel> Since, well, I imagine "watching movies" isn't what you're trying to do.
13:58 < Celmor> vnc is bad, this whole interaction event  has been difficult been difficult, e.g. caps key is stuck on the remote for some reason and i have to keep pressing down shift
13:58 < Celmor> i am viewing the frame buffers content of a vm on linux which is the host and need to interact with the VMs desktop, the content needs to be displayed remotely as well so rdp is out of the question
13:59 < Celmor> would take long to explain and i'm currently on-the-go and need to interact with that machine and am running out of battery while we discuss "why"
14:00 < Celmor> i tried varios compression methods with x2go and vnc but both send images and don't do intra frame compression
14:01 < memcorrupt> hello everyone, I had two OSs before I install this parabola, and they were an ubuntu and a slackware. I installed ubuntu after slackware on a tiny partition on same hard disk, after a while I installed parabola over slackware (formatted its root partition then installed parabola from a live usb), I don't remember how I installed grub on it, but then afterwards I found out that ubuntu option has gone,
14:01 < memcorrupt> and I don't know how to add it back. anyone can guide/help me please?
14:01 < SkunkyFone> you could have easily explained why in the time you've wasted not telling us why :)
14:02 < Celmor> the explanation of the particular use-case is much longer
14:02 < Celmor> and i don't see the point of telling why
14:02 < anchnk> hello, I do own a sennheiser momentum v2 (android version) which does have control for resuming playback, +/- volume control. It's plugged on the headphone socket. I am wondering if I could write a script to make it
14:02 < anchnk>                    work on my linux workstation ? Ubuntu LTS ? Is there a way to see system events when I do press the buttons along the headphone's wire ?
14:02 < djph> memcorrupt: grub / os-prober may need updated (unless you formatted away the ubuntu parition)
14:04 < memcorrupt> djph: like what update? I can't find out how to update it so I don't corrupt current one and be able get to one of these later
14:04 < djph> anchnk: I don't think a PC listens for "control" information via the headphone socket (although, obviously I could be entirely wrong -- I've only ever seen 'controls' work for the headphones -- that is, the volume controls / mute just change resistance in the headphone cable)
14:05 < djph> memcorrupt: "sudo update-grub" (you MAY need to mount the Ubuntu partition, not 100% sure how it figures out partitions are bootable / have an OS on them
14:05 < anchnk> djph ah so you think android have a specific feature built-in to use headset ?
14:06 < memcorrupt> djph: ah, okay... thanks
14:06 < Celmor> guess i'll use teamviewer
14:06 < djph> Celmor: perhaps because giving us the context of "why" will change our perceptions of "he 'needs(tm)' a GUI" to "yeah, he actually needs a GUI"
14:07 < Celmor> i know that i need a gui because i need to see DRAWN frames
14:07 < Wixy> Hi all. Quick question, can you assign multiple PUBLIC IPs to a network interface or is it just one?
14:07 < djph> anchnk: android devices usually include extra pins in the headphone socket.
14:07 < anchnk> djph totally make sense so it's a no go then :)
14:07 < djph> Celmor: for the whateverth time right now, "I need to see drawn frames" doesn't mean a damn thing.
14:07 < Wixy> I'm reading that on AWS you can setup up to N net interfaces (depending on the instance type) and then each interface can handle up to K "IPv4 addresses"
14:07 < Wixy> is that public or private IPs they're talking about?
14:08 < Celmor> anyway from what I've read teamviewer seems to be the most efficient and if run through wine it doesn't need a component running as root
14:08 < djph> Wixy: you "can", but that makes things a bit ugly.
14:08 < hexnewbie> Drawn frames as opposed to photographed frames? ;)
14:08 < Celmor> opengl draws a frame on linux every x times per seconds and i need intra/inter frame compression applied or some smarter kind of motion compression so i see most frames locally with minimal latency
14:09 < Wixy> for example instance type c3.xlarge can handle up to 4 net interfaces, with 15 IPv4 and 15 IPv6
14:09 < Celmor> the frames are rendered
14:09 < Wixy> I'm guessing that's private IPs they're talking about
14:09 < mAniAk-_-> Wixy: usually you just attach an elastic ip to your instance, it doesn't add it on the interface, its just nat
14:09 < Celmor> a GPU _draws_ FRAMES
14:09 < Celmor> oops
14:09 < Celmor> that stuck caps in vnc is driving me insane
14:10 < Wixy> mAniAk-_-, what I really want to do is setup multiple public IPs, I don't really care the number of interfaces
14:10 < mAniAk-_-> Wixy: you can add multiple elastic ip to one instance with one interface
14:10 < djph> Celmor: you still have not provided any proof that you actually need anything more than SSH.
14:11 < Celmor> why do I need to "prove" it? i know what i need
14:11 < Wixy> mAniAk-_-, maybe the nthat limit on the IPs they mention is the number of elastic IP you can attach, right?
14:11 < memcorrupt> djph: it didn't work out :/
14:11 < Celmor> and i provided use-case examples which fit that description
14:11 < Wixy> like 15 elastic IP per interface
14:11 < djph> Celmor: "watch movies, etc" is not an actual use case.
14:11 < mAniAk-_-> Wixy: maybe? i dont know what doc youre reading
14:11 < Celmor> i need to interact with a _machine_ not with a program or process which has a cli interface
14:11 < memcorrupt> djph: not sure if it's a good way to go : https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html#Multi_002dboot-manual-config
14:12 < djph> Celmor: SSH is perfectly acceptable for "interacting with a _machine_"
14:12 < Wixy> mAniAk-_-, https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/using-eni.html#AvailableIpPerENI
14:12 < Celmor> steam in-home streaming and nvidia streaming is a thing
14:12 < Wixy> I'm looking at what is best (cheaper) to attach 4 public IPs
14:12 < mAniAk-_-> Wixy: probably private/public ip, not elastic
14:13 < Celmor> ssh interacts with a shell which does its best to provide tools to interact with the machine but there are lots of scenarious where cli isn't especially if mouse interaction is needed
14:13 < Celmor> anyway, battery will be empty an sec now
14:13 < Celmor> thanks for discussing i guess
14:14 < djph> so, in short, "I don't know how to do whatever it was I wanted to do that I wasn't going to tell any of you that I wanted to do in the CLI"
14:14 < djph> ... got it..
14:14 < alexandre9099> i want one program (a program for reading portuguese citzen card) but on the website they only have Caixa Magica (A portuguese distro based on ubuntu/debian), Fedora 24+, Opensuse42.2+,Ubuntu 14.04 and Ubuntu 16.04+, which one would be the best to try? I am using arch
14:15 < revel> alexandre9099: Check AUR, I *think* it's there.
14:16 < alexandre9099> revel, hmm it actually is, why i didn't tought in searching on AUR :D
14:17 < revel> No guarantees on it working.
14:17 < alexandre9099> sure, i'll test it
14:17 < alexandre9099> :)
14:23 < alexandre9099> revel, it seems to work :)
14:23 < revel> Good.
14:31 < elisaado> emoji support test: 😂
14:37 < bumbar_> if i want n lxc containers to each be visible to the outside world, i need n+1 ip's?
14:37 < ananke> depends on your definition of 'visibility'
14:37 < bumbar_> they'd be running a service which reads and sends data
14:38 < gurrkiin> is there a way to make scp create it's target folders?
14:38 < bumbar_> basically what i want is instead of managing, say 8 servers, to be running 8 containers but each would behave as if it were it's own machine
14:38 < ananke> if you want fully exposed network for a given container, then yes - it will need an IP and full mapping. however, for many things you may simply use specific port mapping, or use proxies that can translate the traffic
14:39 < ananke> gurrkiin: just use rsync over ssh
14:39 < ananke> bumbar_: what kind of services?
14:40 < bumbar_> bitcoin like
14:40 < gurrkiin> ananke: do both machines need to have rsync or just the sender?
14:40 < ananke> gurrkiin: both have to have rsync installed
14:41 < kazdax> Good morning
14:41 < ananke> bumbar_: i'm not even sure what that means
14:41 < bumbar_> just a network daemon
14:42 < kazdax> its from hell tho
14:42 < ananke> bumbar_: you could run those on different ports, if you're concerned with saving IPs
14:42 < kazdax> living inside the kernel that is hell itself :P
14:42 < mAniAk-_-> bumbar_: set up lxc with a bridge i guess?
14:42 < bumbar_> ananke, it's important that each daemon has it's own ip
14:42 < ananke> bumbar_: then why even bother asking the original question?
14:43 < hio> I want to formally announce the best distro on the market, it's Centos 7.4
14:43 < ZetFury> no.
14:43 < kazdax> hio i was going to use centos and i might use it
14:43 < ZetFury> debian ftw
14:43 < kazdax> after my subcribtion to RHEL expires
14:43 < ananke> hio: we don't care
14:43 < hio> kazdax: it's a good choice, it is much more stable than Ubuntu and it doesnt have garbage apt
14:43 < kazdax> Zet i use debian as my host ..i like it so far
14:44 < kazdax> havnt had a problem much with it
14:44 < kazdax> I can do everything id o on my windows so far
14:44 < kazdax> even watch netflix
14:44 < ZetFury> I use debian for servers and ubuntu for desktops
14:44 < hio> How many decades will it take for them to fix apt to a point where it is half way decent? I mean look at the search result of 'apt search anything'. It's a joke.
14:45 < hio> the PACKAGE search doesnt search through package names. I mean only Ubuntu devs can come up with this
14:45 < kazdax> hio right now i am just learning the ins and out..i dont want to setup centOS from the bginning as a host because ialready ahve debian
14:45 < kazdax> but when i get alittle deeper into the sdubject and ntoice the difference ebwteen better package managers
14:45 < amoe> it does search through package names, it just searches through package descriptions as well
14:45 < hio> kazdax: look you can learn from your mistake and set up centos now or do it later when it is much more painful to do
14:46 < jim> hio, if you don't like how debian works, file a wishlist bug
14:46 < hio> just today I installed glib from source and it fried all my desktop icons. Why? How to fix? Good luck, I just reinstalled with centos. I am so done with ubuntu
14:47 < jim> hio, did you run "make install" as root?
14:47 < kazdax> dosnt debian have a bigger community support ?
14:47 < hio> yes of course
14:47 < iodev> ZetFury: I do it vice-verse
14:47 < iodev> (I use Ubuntu for Servers and Debian for desktop)
14:47 < ZetFury> iodev: interesting, why?
14:48 < jim> guess what... package management owns the place where you must have installed it
14:48 < iodev> because I need laptop stable
14:48 < iodev> and I need server stable and using up to date software
14:48 < hio> jim: I really dont care what excuse the ubuntu people come up with
14:48 < ZetFury> I ran in to too many issues with gfx when using debian for my desktop so decided on ubuntu
14:49 < ZetFury> but yeah, my laptop sometimes crashes :(
14:49 < jim> hio, ok. it's causing discord here, so I say drop it
14:49 < mAniAk-_-> hio: all i hear is "i dont know what im doing but its not my fault"
14:49 < Nussi> don't feed the troll
14:49 < hio> usr/local is not designed for system ubuntu
14:50 < hio> yet when I install anything in there, it breaks the whole system
14:50 < jim> mAniAk-_, you should probably drop it too
14:50 < jim> hio, last warning
14:50 < hio> ok let's talk about something else
14:50 < jim> thanks
14:50 < blackflag_bfp> hio: That's teh spirit!  :)
14:51 < hio> Let's talk about why Linux developers dont switch to Rust
14:51 < Nussi> :facepalm:
14:51 < blackflag_bfp> We can talk about how I wrecked my display buy replacing the default WM for xfce4 from Xfwm4 to i3  :)
14:51 < jim> hio, maybe some do
14:52 < hio> I am actually an enemy of Rust
14:52 < kazdax> i wanan get a7th geenration i7
14:52 < revel> hio: Bad cross-platform support?
14:52 < revel> I think it's just x86{,_64}.
14:52 < hio> revel: the real reason should be that Rust is too complicated
14:52 < hio> just like c++, it is complex and bloated
14:52 < kazdax> it would be cool to buy a refurbish laptop
14:52 < kazdax> desktop
14:53 < revel> Not too sure on that x86 part, even.
14:53 < kazdax> i meant desktop
14:53 < kazdax> a laptop for 600 dollars cost me a i7 16 gig ram
14:53 < hio> can somebody explain why I always get silenced by people for legitimately bringing up constructive criticism? I have this happening a lot to me
14:53 < kazdax> 128 ssd
14:53 < kazdax> i dont even need that much space to begin with
14:54 < ananke> hio: you have a broken idea of what 'constructive criticism' is
14:54 < hio> ananke: I dont think so; i think I'm more of a CEO/leader personality and this bothers people
14:54 < revel> hio: Here specifically or everywhere?
14:55 < hio> everywhere revel
14:55 < jim> hio, it sounds like you're trying to start a war
14:55 < lnslbrty> Does pthread_create affect/modify file descriptor flags like O_NONBLOCK? O.o
14:55 < hio> yesterday I criticised the dart language on their gitter channel and they also shut me down
14:55 < revel> hio: Then it's because there's something wrong with you.
14:55 < hio> maybe the world is wrong
14:55 < ananke> hio: so not only your moral compass is broken, you're also full of yourself. great combination, no wonder you're confused about how you're perceived
14:56 < jim> revel, thats a personal attack
14:56 < hio> the bible confirms this actually, the world is ruled by dark forces in high places. (Ephesians 6:12)
14:56 < revel> jim: Hmm, it wasn't meant as one.
14:56 < revel> Though I guess I can see that.
14:56 < hio> jim I think you're going a little overboard now, the power is going to your head now
14:56 < ananke> there's certainly a recurring theme in all of this
14:57 < blackflag_bfp> hio: Instead of being critical you should be presenting solutions to the issues you bring up. To say something is not good alone is unproductive and menial. We have a saying where I work, "Show me the data"
14:57 < JimBuntu> Having something wrong with you doesn't make you a bad person, I don't see the "attack" nature.
14:57 < hio> ananke: that theme could be that I speak the truth and it's not convenient for the powers in place
14:57 < jim> hio, really? I just asked him not to attack you personally
14:57 < hio> blackflag_bfp: that's what I mean, I always give real solutions
14:58 < hio> ok jim
14:58 < CoolerZ> anyone familiar with bash scripting?
14:58 < hio> for example, when I say that Linux should have default gui installers I am presenting a solution to a problem
14:58 < ananke> hio: just because you believe in whatever nonsense, doesn't make it 'the truth'. good luck with your approach
14:58 < CoolerZ> please help me fix this configure file https://paste.pound-python.org/show/aOt2rBJVk1GPcVRuLPnU/
14:59 < JimBuntu> hio, nah, it's a common problem that blackflag_bfp just hit on the head, most people want to hear "this is broken, and here is my idea to fix it" and not only "this is broken". Even if you say the "this is my idea to fix it" a short while later, the damage is done. It's best to try and add those two things in the same statement, especially on forums like this where there is no controlled back and forth cadence.
14:59 < blackflag_bfp> hio: so when you criticised the dart language did you present them with a language that would yield better results?
14:59 < lupine> various distributions of linux *do* have default gui installers
14:59 < hio> yes blackflag_bfp
14:59 < lupine> choice is good
14:59 < CoolerZ> it keeps printing the error message on lines 3812 to 3828
14:59 < JimBuntu> hio, Linux is a GREAT example of the proper method. By that, I mean how the community works.  Many people report bugs with their findings, and many simply fix bugs.
14:59 < kazdax> maybe its more fun doing non gui installations
14:59 < jim> CoolerZ, sure. how many here think you're taking a poll? (instead, just ask your question in detail)
15:00 < blackflag_bfp> hio: and they obviously did not agree correct?
15:00 < CoolerZ> even if i provide the option --with-pbc-include=DIR and --with-pbc-lib=DIR
15:00 < hio> they didnt even say blackflag_bfp, they just immediately took it as nonserious
15:00 < CoolerZ> jim, poll? what poll
15:00 < TomyWork> is there any way to forcekill a process in D state? i mean D means uninterruptible, but come on...
15:00 < blackflag_bfp> hio: We have another saying to prevent these kinds of situeations, "Disaagree then commit"
15:00 < lupine> TomyWork: none
15:00 < hio> blackflag_bfp: who is we ?
15:00 < lupine> the kernel is holding the process open
15:01 < lupine> typically this happens when you have a misbehaving I/O device
15:01 < lupine> if so, disabling that *might* help
15:01 < blackflag_bfp> hio: well you also have to take into consideration how your words will be perceived. Especially in a chat where your physical queues cannot be relied on to understand your intent.
15:02 < blackflag_bfp> hio: my company
15:02 < hio> ok but I'm objectively offering valid criticism. They just dont want to hear it. For example I told them that dart needs perfect json support. How can anybody even disagree with that? It's a freaking javascript replacement, of course it needs json support
15:03 < hio> I think people in open source often dont really want any help
15:03 < hio> at best they want people to fix some annoying minor bugs
15:03 < blackflag_bfp> hio: then don't help them.
15:03 < lupine> yeah
15:03 < lupine> you tell em
15:04 < blackflag_bfp> lupine: Put the torch down :)
15:04 < djph> "x needs to do y" is not helpful.  "hey I fixed X so it can do Y, here's the pull request"
15:04 < ananke> walking into a channel and announcing 'best distro ever' is far from what normal people do
15:04 < djph> ananke: systemdos, of course.
15:04 < blackflag_bfp> djph: My point in case, thank you.
15:05 < ananke> djph: but which one? can't have a blanket coverage, you need to pick an actual release
15:05 < djph> blackflag_bfp: I did whatnow?
15:05 < revel> ananke: Install Gentoo.
15:05 < ananke> revel: I find there are easier ways to punish myself
15:05 < djph> ananke: wait, there actually *is* a "systemdos" now? o_O
15:05 < revel> lol
15:05 < CoolerZ> someone please help
15:06 < JimBuntu> ding! ding! ding! Station identification break. All parties return to your designated corners for a quick rest and a drink.
15:06 < revel> djph: I think he meant "a specific distro with systemd"?
15:06 < BluesKaj> revel, if youlike wearing hair shirts
15:06 < hio> I believe that I would make a great CEO of Ubuntu or Opensuse
15:06 < revel> BluesKaj: What?
15:06 < djph> revel: yeah, but my poor attempt at a joke was that "systemdos" was the distro.. :|
15:07 < BluesKaj> revel, installing gentoo
15:07 < ananke> CoolerZ: #bash may be more interested in searching for a bug in in a 5k script without an actual error
15:07 < Psi-Jack> heh
15:07 < djph> ananke: I doubt it
15:07 < revel> BluesKaj: I don't get it. Hair shirts?
15:07 < Psi-Jack> More-so, autoconf generated sh.
15:07 < ananke> djph: shhh
15:07 < CoolerZ> ananke, just look at the line 3812 of this https://paste.pound-python.org/show/aOt2rBJVk1GPcVRuLPnU/
15:07 < CoolerZ> please
15:08 < BluesKaj> revel, read, extremely itchy
15:08 < JimBuntu> CoolerZ, please pastebin the error message from running the script
15:08 < blackflag_bfp> Good morning sir Psi-Jack
15:08 < ananke> CoolerZ: no thanks. you never stated the error
15:08 < Psi-Jack> blackflag_bfp: G'morning.
15:08 < CoolerZ> JimBuntu, that line IS the error message
15:08 < hio> Isnt it ironic that now microsoft made their own app store and it's immediately done better than what Ubuntu has done for years?
15:08 < revel> BluesKaj: But I already use Gentoo hardened w/ SELinux and it's not that bad.
15:08 < JimBuntu> CoolerZ, Nope. That line prints the error message. If what you say is true, please show it, please
15:08 < Psi-Jack> CoolerZ: No, no it is not.
15:09 < JimBuntu> Does it print "3812 result: not found" ?
15:09 < ananke> CoolerZ: run the script. show us the _output_
15:09 < BluesKaj> revel, well good for you then :-)
15:09 < CoolerZ> JimBuntu, yes and the error message is the thing on line 3812
15:09 < Psi-Jack> CoolerZ: No it is not.
15:09 < CoolerZ> i don't know what you mean, there are no other errors
15:10 < lupine> there's always something cute about people declaring that they're alpha-type
15:10 < lupine> remember when esr did it?
15:10 < jim> alphalfa type?
15:11 < JimBuntu> CoolerZ, please go to http://crypto.stanford.edu/pbc/ and acquire/install the PBC library
15:11 < lupine> great in salad
15:11 < ananke> 'alfalfa'? horses like it
15:11 < JimBuntu> alfalfa? I like alflfa
15:11 < jim> hmm, I must be a horse :)
15:11 < BluesKaj> so called alpha types have little discretion and eventually end up very lonely in life
15:11 < Psi-Jack> jim: Giddeyup. :)
15:12 < JimBuntu> jim, based on some of the stories I heard... yes. I speak of your appetite and natural ability to filter water ;-D
15:13 < CoolerY> JimBuntu, i have the pbc library installed already
15:13 < CoolerY> i can compile programs and run it etc
15:14 < CoolerY> JimBuntu, the weirdest part is if i edit that configure file and add the line "ls /usr/local/include/pbc" just before that error echo
15:14 < CoolerY> then it prints the contents of the folder including the file pbc.h
15:14 < CoolerY> so i know it should be able to find that file
15:15 < JimBuntu> CoolerY, Yeah, but is that where the script is looking?!
15:15 < c0mrade> If a customer complains about me asking some questions, requesting some information from him during his call and he gets mad about it, which is better, to be patient or to explain why am asking these questions?
15:15 < JimBuntu> CoolerY, did you try `./configure --with-pbc-include=DIR --with-pbc-lib=DIR` ?
15:15 < CoolerY> JimBuntu, line 3736
15:15 < CoolerY> JimBuntu, yes i tried that too
15:15 < CoolerY> ./configure --with-pbc-include=/usr/local/include/pbc --with-pbc-lib=/usr/local/lib
15:15 < CoolerY> same error
15:16 < MrElendig> your life would be much better if you didn't make install as root by hand
15:16 < JimBuntu> idk CoolerY, so far you have basically refused to provide the complete output from running the script. It makes it much more difficult without that.
15:17 < CoolerY> JimBuntu, one sec
15:18 < kazdax> does ubtunu have the most good looking GUI from all other linux ?
15:18 < CrazyTux> anybody here using MX Linux 17.1?
15:18 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: No
15:18 < CoolerY> JimBuntu, https://paste.pound-python.org/raw/xbLShA6WUEOfXsrIycTi/
15:19 < kazdax> how can i spice up my KDE on debian ?
15:19 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: As usual: Polling = bad.
15:19 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: Salt and Pepper.
15:19 < CoolerY> JimBuntu, it even finds the gmp library
15:19 < revel> kazdax: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
15:19 < CoolerY> so something is wrong with the configure file
15:19 < kazdax> well to be honest..i think terminal is probably what looks more artistic
15:19 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, no. I just wanted to ask whether MX 17 has a spectre meltdown patch.
15:19 < kazdax> as the commands gasp improve
15:19 < jim> kazdax, I';d say that the other linuxes have exactly the same mechanisms to customize the look
15:20 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: So ask /that/, not ask to ask.
15:20 < alexandre9099> is it possible to login into my user using a smartcard? (without modifiying it's contents, the idea is to use my citzen card to login into my pc)
15:20 < JimBuntu> CoolerY, what HOST OS are you using?
15:21 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, ok. How can I be sure that on a distro I am protected against spectre meltdown vulnerabilities?
15:21 < jim> CoolerY, so, look at configure.in
15:21 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: https://github.com/speed47/spectre-meltdown-checker
15:22 < heftig> CrazyTux: grep . /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/*
15:22 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, heftig, thanks
15:22 < JimBuntu> Good tool, but... " It doesn't attempt to run any kind of exploit, and can't guarantee that your system is secure, but rather helps you verifying whether your system has the known correct mitigations in place. "
15:22 < heftig> CrazyTux: it should say "Mitigation" for all three vulnerabilities
15:22 < revel> I'd go with checking the /sys directory, especially since the script does that anyway.
15:22 < jim> heftig, that says: do those files have at least one character
15:23 < heftig> jim: no, it outputs something like this:
15:23 < revel> heftig: It also prints them out.
15:23 < heftig> /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown:Mitigation: PTI
15:23 < revel> Yeah, it's actually GregKH's suggested method of checking, I think.
15:23 < heftig> just a hack to have each line prefixed with the filename
15:23 < revel> ^
15:23 < jim> o0h I see
15:24 < CrazyTux> MX 17 is based on Debian 9. Suppose Debian 9 has been patched, can I expect that MX also has been patched?
15:24 < revel> Does the /sys directory there not exist?
15:24 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Is it using Debian's repositories or its own?
15:25 < jim> CrazyTux, it sounds like a reasonable assumption... and, if that's the case, why not go with plain debian?
15:26 < CrazyTux> jim, MX Linux makes Debian a lot easier to install and use. Moreover there are so many useful features like MX Tools.
15:26 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: You can *expect*, yes. But it will only be guaranteed if it uses Debian's repos, otherwise you're at the mercy MX 17's response time to integrate the patches. That's a worry I'd have with *any* derivatives.
15:26 < revel> Last time I checked, Debian was pretty easy to install...
15:27 < CrazyTux> hexnewbie, how can I check which repos it is using?
15:28 < jim> cat /etc/apt/sources.list
15:28 < revel> cat /etc/apt.d/sources.list{,.d/*}
15:28 < revel> Or is it just /etc/apt?
15:28 < revel> Ah well.
15:28 < hexnewbie> cat /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}
15:28 < jim> you almost had it :) I don't think I have an apt.d
15:29 < revel> Yeah, just /etc/apt
15:29 < revel> Though checking sources.list.d may be good.
15:29 < CrazyTux> some are of Debian and others are of MX/Antix.
15:30 < funksh0n> Hi all
15:31 < jim> it strikes me, that could be debian-core-with-mx-changes
15:31 < jim> hi
15:31 < funksh0n> Just wanted to check something regarding the mountpoint for GPT/EFI setup with dm-crypt root.
15:32 < CrazyTux> I think MX 17 hasn't been patched yet.
15:33 < funksh0n> My partition table is pretty simple, 550M /dev/sda1 EFI and %rest /dev/sda2 for the root.  I've already done the crypt work on /dev/sda2 and mounted it at /
15:33 < funksh0n> do I mount the EFI parition at /boot or /boot/efi?  I'll be using GRUB.
15:33 < CrazyTux> I just checked in the terminal. The status is Vulnerable.
15:36 < CrazyTux> hexnewbie, so, your recommendation is not to go for any derivatives?
15:36 < CoolerZ> JimBuntu, i am using ubuntu
15:37 < CoolerZ> jim, configure.in ?
15:37 < CoolerZ> why
15:37 < MrElendig> derivates are generally much worse than the source, and with no support
15:37 < MrElendig> s/source/original/
15:37 < CrazyTux> MrElendig, but, MX 17 has great reviews.
15:38 < Psi-Jack> Bots can generate great reviews.
15:38 < CrazyTux> It is my personal favorite.
15:38 < MrElendig> CrazyTux: a distro with literally 5 users was on top of distrowatch for a while
15:38 < MrElendig> also, never trust any review you haven't faked/bought yourself :p
15:39 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: Out of everyone here I've  ever heard claim to use MX, you're the first to ever say you actually like it.
15:39 < CrazyTux> MrElendig, which one is that?
15:39 < Dr_Coke> Hey hey Psi-Jack
15:39 < Dr_Coke> Hi MrElendig
15:39 < Dr_Coke> Hi rindolf
15:39 < Psi-Jack> Dr_Coke: LTNS!
15:39 < Dr_Coke> yeah lol
15:39 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, what are their opinions on it?
15:39 < Dr_Coke> I got my car back from the mechanics today
15:39 < MrElendig> CrazyTux: can't remember what it was named, it caused distrowatch to change their system a bit though
15:39 < rindolf> Dr_Coke: hi
15:40 < Dr_Coke> I think and pray it's fixed the horrible tapping sound I had in it he did the o ring in the sump on the pickup tube
15:40 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, btw, which one are you using now?
15:40 < Dr_Coke> Had not much oil pressure at all on idle
15:40 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: Depends.
15:40 < Dr_Coke> but now it has about 30 psi
15:40 < CrazyTux> https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/mx-17-lenovo.html
15:40 < Dr_Coke> which is great
15:41  * Psi-Jack increases pressure.
15:41 < Dr_Coke> How's things been Psi-Jack
15:41 < Psi-Jack> Oh, pretty good.
15:41 < Dr_Coke> Are you still using Fedora?
15:41 < Psi-Jack> Dr_Coke: No, but it's still my #1 recommended distro for desktop.
15:42 < Dr_Coke> I've been thinking about giving it a go
15:42 < Dr_Coke> again
15:42 < CrazyTux> I am just a non technical end user. Don't have much knowledge of these vulnerabilities and their possible consequences.
15:42 < Dr_Coke> or opensuse
15:42 < Dr_Coke> But I think Fedora
15:42 < Psi-Jack> Definitely Fedora.
15:43 < Dr_Coke> Does Xfce work well on Fedora?
15:43 < Psi-Jack> openSUSE still does some pretty stupid things, like settnig the default file open limits way too low that even just a web browser will hit it.
15:43 < Psi-Jack> Of course.
15:43 < CrazyTux> Dr_Coke, why does one have to enter the wifi passcode everytime one logs into Opensuse?
15:43 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: They don't.
15:44 < CrazyTux> btw, how is Mageia in comparison with OpenSuse?
15:44 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: fedora xfce is about as good as it gets https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/
15:44 < NetTreminalGene> debian debian debian
15:44 < Dr_Coke> really triceratux ?
15:44 < Dr_Coke> thanks man How are you going
15:44 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: Vastly different.
15:44 < Dr_Coke> triceratux is it as good as debian
15:44 < Dr_Coke> xfce
15:44 < Dr_Coke> that's what I got now
15:45 < CrazyTux> triceratux, hi
15:45 < Dr_Coke> Psi-Jack I've been waiting and waiting for xfce to update to gtk 3
15:45 < CrazyTux> triceratux, have you checked MX 17 for Spectre Meltdown vulnerabilities?
15:45 < Psi-Jack> heh
15:45 < mawk> I've got difficulties setting up a ssh tunnel
15:46 < Dr_Coke> Psi-Jack I even offered to help which they were happy about but then I chickened out
15:46 < mawk> it invariably says "debug3: sending debug message: Failed to open the tunnel device."
15:46 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: its a little better. they were earlier to adopt a loginmanager. i wind up prefering mx-17 or xubuntu 16.0.4 tho. dont mind extonos 18.4 either once you fix the networking with googledns http://www.extix.se/?p=393
15:46 < mawk> the source user is root, the target user is root, I've created a tun device owner by root:root, the device is up, I've put PermitTunnel yes in the sshd config
15:46 < triceratux> *16.04.4
15:47 < mawk> I'm stracing sshd to see where it goes wrong but to no avail, ssh just opens the device, closes it immediately after, with no syscall in between apart from flags setting
15:48 < mawk> it does openat(AT_FDCWD, "/dev/net/tun", O_RDWR); ioctl(7</dev/net/tun>, TUNSETIFF, 0x7ffcf0347220); close(7</dev/net/tun>)
15:49 < mawk> the ioctl doesn't fail
15:49 < SkunkyFone> mawk: um.  what's the actual command you're using?
15:49 < mawk> from the client it's ssh -CvNT -w 0:0 -o Tunnel=point-to-point root@1.2.3.4
15:50 < gurki> is there an easy way to rename ens** interfaces?
15:50 < mawk> but the error is on the server, the client can correctly open the tun
15:50 < mawk> gurki: ip link set ens42 name foobar
15:50 < CrazyTux> triceratux, do I need to do anything to protect my MX 17 installation against spectre meltdown vulnerabilities?
15:50 < gurki> some interface f..up made centos rename some iface called ens9 to ens7 which breaks a lot of stuff on my machine
15:50 < prussian> anyone know if any fake fax devices? would be nice for mock testing a fax feature. if not I'll have to make my own
15:51 < mawk> this issue is incomprehensible
15:52 < mawk> I've thought about systemd preventing sshd from setting up low level network using capabilities restriction
15:52 < mawk> so i've modified sshd.service to run sshd with full privileges but it changes nothing
15:53 < triceratux> CrazyTux: havent looked that closely. theres an april update tho which purports to be as current as it gets. may want to start with that https://sourceforge.net/projects/mx-linux/files/Snapshots/
15:55 < mawk> let gdb that ssh server
15:55 < mawk> it's getting dirtier and dirtier
15:55 < CrazyTux> triceratux, I update/upgrade MX regularly.
15:55 < djph> mawk: what?
15:55 < triceratux> CrazyTux: im running mx less than i used to because their gvfs-udisks2-volume-monitor bug is no longer the only thing wrong with their thunar & it makes me nervous
15:55 < mawk> but it's stripped
15:56 < BlueProtoman> Does Linux log programs that users execute?
15:56 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok.
15:56 < mawk> djph: read at 09:45:53
15:56 < MrElendig> BlueProtoman: it can
15:56 < gurki> mawk: linux complains "rtnetlink answers: de vice or resource busy", even when setting onboot=no and rebooting
15:56 < jnewt> how do i add programs to my "open with" menu when i right click on files?
15:56 < MrElendig> BlueProtoman: does it do it out of the box? no
15:57 < mawk> yes you need to down it first gurki
15:57 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: Does it do so with SELinux?
15:57 < mawk> but it will disconnect internet
15:57 < djph> mawk: ah, missed that in the scrollback
15:57 < gurki> mawk: i did that
15:57 < MrElendig> read up on the audit system
15:57 < MrElendig> and you can do logging with selinux
15:57 < mawk> ip link set ens7 down; ip link set ens7 name ens9; ip link set ens9 up state up
15:57 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: Which man page?
15:57 < djph> BlueProtoman: "that depends"
15:57 < triceratux> http://pastebin.centos.org/691541/raw/
15:57 < mawk> clean every address on it also gurki
15:57 < mawk> and routes
15:57 < mawk> and check if some program has still that interface open somehow
15:57  * triceratux has been PUGD
15:58 < gurki> mawk: oh. i used ifdown. obviously that wasnt enough
15:58 < revel> triceratux: Pugged?
15:58 < mawk> indeed
15:58 < gurki> thank you :)
15:58 < triceratux> Polkit / Udisks2 / GVFS / dbus
15:59 < Dr_Coke> triceratux just on xubuntu it didn't theme right
15:59 < mawk> it's not a permanent rename gurki
15:59 < Dr_Coke> like debian did
15:59 < Dr_Coke> when I applied the numix theme
15:59 < mawk> but you maybe want predictable interface names rather than this gurki , you can use udev for that maybe
15:59 < hio> guys, I need help. I cant install chrome on centos7
15:59 < gurki> reading up on that
16:00 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: well you get another chance at lts in 6 days. 16.04.4 has had quite a run
16:01 < Dr_Coke> oh really what's the new lts
16:01 < Dr_Coke> version
16:01 < Dr_Coke> I'm really liking the sound of Fedora
16:01 < JimBuntu> 18.04 LTS is due to be released in 7 days, but I figure it's still supported for a couple more years
16:01 < triceratux> the reality is theres going to be more distros like swagarch with real xfce, real installers, & real pacman. theres no stopping it https://swagarch.github.io/
16:01 < CrazyTux> triceratux, so you thing MX linux is not so secure?
16:02 < Dr_Coke> what do you mean real xfce?
16:02 < djph> hio: isn't centos RPM?
16:02 < triceratux> CrazyTux: its secure enough for my tastes because i run it live. i just get tired of waiting 20sec for thunar to mount a partition
16:03 < ozymandias> hio did you add the repo? what error are you getting?
16:03 < CrazyTux> triceratux, any other distro you would suggest that is stable, secure and up to date?
16:03 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: ie not lxde with xfburn bolted onto it. lightweight hardware can handle xfce these days
16:04 < JaySun_> hi
16:04 < Dr_Coke> triceratux I never knew lxde was a part of xfce
16:04 < Dr_Coke> but swag arch looks nice
16:04 < hio> ozymandias: what repo? It complains about missing 	libappindicator3.so.1()(64bit) is needed by google-chrome-stable-66.0.3359.117-1.x86_64
16:05 < Dr_Coke> But I've never used arch
16:05 < paddy|> CrazyTux: *ping*
16:05 < ozymandias> hio, the google one.
16:05 < ozymandias> that you install chrome from.
16:05 < paddy|> CrazyTux: did your questions regarding distros lead to a result?
16:06 < paddy|> oops
16:06 < hio> it doesnt exist ozymandias : https://dl.google.com/linux/rpm/stable/centos
16:06 < ozymandias> that url is broken
16:06 < djph> hio: and centos repos don't have "libappindicator3"?
16:07 < triceratux> CrazyTux: tbh if you sort them by xorg & kernel they shake out like this. the altlinux xfce is justifiably on top http://pastebin.centos.org/691551/raw/ all this stuff works for me & when it doesnt i run something else
16:07 < hio> djph: no
16:07 < ozymandias> where did you get the rpm from if you didnt add the repo? and why not add the repo?
16:07 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok
16:07 < hio> ozymandias: i downloaded the rpm from google like I always do
16:07 < hio> chrome used to work fine with centos, i dont know what changed in 7.4
16:08 < djph> ozymandias: fairly certain google's installer is dumb (i.e. they don't *give* you the repo - they give you the *deb or the *rpm, which then adds the repo)
16:08 < ozymandias> hio well, if you are not using yum/repos you will likely have to do the deps by hand
16:08 < oerheks> hio, see comment 3 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1544362
16:09 < ozymandias> oerheks, nice find
16:10 < ozymandias> djph, I've always added the repo to install chrome
16:10 < MrElendig> why not use the open source builds?
16:12 < Dr_Coke> Psi-Jack do you like arch linux
16:12 < djph> ozymandias: eh, a quick check didn't make it easy to find right now :|
16:13 < Dr_Coke> What's different about arch linux to debian and fedora based
16:15 < hio> oerheks: it still doesnt work after I did his stuff
16:15 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: the package complement is substantially more uptodate & the design of pacman is informed by the long experience with the deb & rpm distros. with some discipline arch can result in a highly current, usable system
16:16 < Psi-Jack> Dr_Coke: Nope. It's horrible. But it works for my latest purposes. :)
16:16 < hio> oerheks: nvm, it works now. thank you
16:16 < triceratux> until something from the aur wont install or configure of course ;)
16:16 < oerheks> hio, have fun!
16:17 < hio> i had to install wildcard everything libindicator*
16:17 < Psi-Jack> Dr_Coke: Well, Arch is not user friendly, it's got a horrible package manager, AUR is completely broken and forces every user to maintain their own AUR repositories. :)
16:17 < peetaur2> arch is expert friendly
16:18 < Dr_Coke> Psi-Jack damn
16:18 < Psi-Jack> I don't know if "friendly" is the right word. :)
16:18 < Dr_Coke> triceratux I think I might be staying away from swagarch
16:18 < Dr_Coke> after hearing that
16:18 < hio> guys I want a fast gedit alternative
16:18 < hio> should I really use sublime text? somehow i dont like it
16:18 < lupine> gedit
16:18 < otirc> hio: vim
16:19 < peetaur2> like they say '*nix is user friendly...it's just picky about who its friends are" but even moreso with arch
16:19 < triceratux> hio: mousepad
16:19 < hio> vim doesnt work properly with copy paste
16:19 < otirc> hio: :paste
16:19 < hio> I wish Linux had something like notepad++
16:19 < hio> windows wins again!
16:19 < nohop> anyone aware of a cli webcam server that uses no local storage at all?
16:19 < Psi-Jack> hio: Sublime Text is waaaaaay better than notepad++ ever will be.
16:20 < peetaur2> like ubuntu = almost usable system.... ubuntu + huge effort = almost perfectly usable ... arch = mostly unusable system.... arch + small effort = almost perfectly usable
16:20 < triceratux> hio: theres also beaver but you have to dig it out of opensuse or arch
16:20 < peetaur2> I like kate for text editing
16:20 < otirc> hio: if you are willing to put the time in emacs is awesome
16:20 < djph> emacsOS?
16:20 < peetaur2> probably haven't tried sublime text
16:21 < Psi-Jack> djph: But it lacks a decent text editor.
16:21 < djph> trouble with emacs is it's a gra... ^^ yeah, that
16:21 < Psi-Jack> heh
16:21 < Psi-Jack> djph: Shortened version. :)
16:21 < otirc> Psi-Jack: yeah, that is why evil mode was developed
16:21 < ozymandias> i hear someone ported vim to emacs, so you have a decent text editor now
16:22 < MrElendig> there is a project that embeds neovim in emacs
16:22 < Psi-Jack> MrElendig: Heh, seriously?
16:22 < JimBuntu> What, no mention of Visual Studio Code as a text editor? Or did I miss that ;-D
16:22 < otirc> just change the keybindings that vim uses to those of emacs
16:23 < djph> JimBuntu: "good" text editors.
16:23 < MrElendig> Psi-Jack: yep
16:23 < paddy|> okay, i mention .... vscode as valuable editor that is welcome on my linux system
16:24 < MrElendig> not a serious one though, it was made just because of ^
16:24 < Psi-Jack> vscode is actually pretty decent. Wouldn't say so much it's geat general purpose text editor, but for code development and such, it's great.
16:25 < Li> I finally witnessed a love story between hp desktop and twinmos usb memory. the desktop won't allow any other usb to boot it except that one!
16:25 < JimBuntu> Li, but that's HP... it wont last
16:25 < Li> ah ArchLinux is trying to play 3 sum since it's the only allowed OS image toboot
16:26 < hendrix> hio: kate, geany
16:26 < Li> JimBuntu: I believe you :))
16:29 < mawk> I'm giving up on this ssh issue
16:29 < mawk> no ssh vpn for me today
16:30 < mawk> I keep my wireguard
16:31 < mawk> I was researching the best way to start a vpn connection without disrupting/depending on one particular system connection
16:31 < Dr_Coke> does swagarch come with everything to compile
16:31 < Dr_Coke> triceratux
16:32 < Dr_Coke> like all the extra packages you might need
16:32 < NetTreminalGene> any on sale debian license key?
16:32 < mawk> yes NetTreminalGene
16:32 < mawk> I can sell you one
16:32 < Dr_Coke> every time in the past I tried to compile something it always needed something else
16:32 < MrElendig> Dr_Coke: if you want arch install arch, not some random derivate with no community and questionable manpower
16:32 < mawk> go pm
16:32 < revel> "Warning! This copy of Debian is not genuine!"
16:32 < Dr_Coke> lol MrElendig
16:32 < Dr_Coke> lol revel
16:34 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: if its not on the iso itll shake out of the repo pretty fast by running ./configure on a reasonably complex project
16:34 < Dr_Coke> triceratux so it would automatically fetch it for me?
16:35 < Dr_Coke> the extra packages needed
16:35 < Dr_Coke> with ./configure
16:35 < mawk> here is a sample NetTreminalGene: AB73B-19467-01C70-*****-*****-****
16:35 < NetTreminalGene> mawk, how much is that?
16:35 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: you sometimes have to read the ./configure messages & google a couple things but thats what its for
16:35 < MrElendig> Dr_Coke: no distro can do that
16:35 < triceratux> ^^
16:35 < MrElendig> it is a unsolveable problem
16:35 < Dr_Coke> ahh damn
16:36 < MrElendig> also you should not be building by hand in the first place
16:36 < MrElendig> generally
16:36 < triceratux> until / unless you know what yer doing
16:37 < Dr_Coke> MrElendig what distro are you on?
16:37 < djph> triceratux: isn't that a chicken-egg problem?
16:38 < MrElendig> Dr_Coke: multiple
16:38 < Dr_Coke> What's your favourite MrElendig
16:38 < infinisil> Hey, how expensive is a directory listing in comparison to reading a single file that contains a list of all directories already?
16:38 < MrElendig> arch is the one that pisses me off the least
16:38 < MrElendig> I don't have a favorite
16:38 < mawk> a directory listing is like reading a file infinisil
16:38 < mawk> so the complexity should be the same
16:38 < Dr_Coke> lol MrElendig
16:39 < infinisil> mawk: Alright thanks, that's what I suspected
16:39 < djph> infinisil: what are you trying to do with this "directory listing" (or the file)
16:39 < MrElendig> infinisil: techically a directory is just a file with a bunch of filenames in it
16:39 < MrElendig> (depending on the fs)
16:39 < hio> Why wont linux defeat Windows?
16:39 < Psi-Jack> hio: It already has.
16:39 < BlueProtoman> Define "defeat".
16:39 < mawk> because it the elite let normal people in, it won't be an elite anymore hio
16:40 < triceratux> it sure has http://linuxgizmos.com/why-microsoft-chose-linux-for-azure-sphere/
16:40 < djph> MrElendig: everything is a file :)
16:40 < Psi-Jack> djph: YOOOOUR a file!
16:40 < mawk> in this case it's a real file, not just a file descriptor
16:40 < djph> Psi-Jack: more or less.
16:41 < mawk> but not a file too read, you can't read() it
16:41 < mawk> too real*
16:41 < MrElendig> you're a <insert flavor of the day>file!
16:41 < RayTracer> hio: most likely because of applications that are not available for linux
16:41 < infinisil> djph: Hard to explain. If you know Nix: restructuring nixpkgs to use a directory listing instead of having a single file with all directories (it's not as simple as it sounds though)
16:42 < twainwek> because people are indoctrinated into using windows from the moment they first touch a (desktop) computer
16:43 < djph> infinisil: don't recognise nixpkgs :|
16:43 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: when i run android im reminded of how unacceptable the state of the majority of "linux" distros is. you shouldnt have to fix showstopping bugs. stuff shoudnt be released unless it works like a real os
16:43 < djph> twainwek: we were indoctrinated to playing Oregon Trail on green-on-black machines.
16:43 < djph> triceratux: so, don't use Windows? :)
16:43 < infinisil> djph: nixpkgs is the main repo for nix packages and the implementation of NixOS also lives there
16:43 < djph> infinisil: ahhh
16:44 < Dr_Coke> triceratux I agree
16:44 < hio> RayTracer: you are just moving the goalposts
16:44 < hio> Linux doesnt have applications because there is something wrong with linux
16:44 < triceratux> djph: im well out of the windoze loop. i can remember when that was nearly unimaginable
16:44 < djph> hio: ... that made no sense whatsoever.
16:44 < RayTracer> hio: I think you're just wrong
16:45 < Dr_Coke> triceratux I can't believe Apple is stopping itunes downloads and only going to provide apple music as a streaming service you pay montly for
16:45 < Dr_Coke> monthly
16:45 < djph> triceratux: when "not win" was unimaginable?  Wasn't that about the time when game CDs still had "For DOS, or MAC" stickers?
16:45 < MrElendig> I can't believe they didn't do that 10 years ago
16:46 < Dr_Coke> MrElendig I think it's pure greed
16:46 < MrElendig> apple has always been pure greed
16:46 < djph> MrElendig: pure greed with a candy coating
16:47 < djph> ... or at least those godawful ugly iMacs went that way
16:47 < Dr_Coke> Be nice if Google made a full fledged alternative to windows
16:47 < Dr_Coke> for the pc
16:47 < MrElendig> eh
16:47 < Dr_Coke> not this half arse chrome os
16:47 < MrElendig> would be just as evil if not more
16:48 < Dr_Coke> lol
16:48 < jml2> Dr_Coke, pepsi is good
16:48 < fendur> MrElendig++
16:48 < djph> let's be honest here, how many people actually *use* their PC for anything other than "to get on facebook" these days.
16:48 < Dr_Coke> jml2 yeah it is good man I got some in the fridge
16:48 < MrElendig> google changed their slogan from "don't do evil" to "we are more evil than JB"
16:48 < otirc> Dr_Coke: isn't that what they were doing with Fuchsia
16:48 < jml2> djph, not steve wozniak, he announced he quit using it
16:49 < Dr_Coke> otirc yeah maybe but I haven't heard anything about fuchsia
16:49 < Dr_Coke> much
16:49 < jml2> djph, but he doesn't close his account to prevent someone spoofing his identity
16:49 < djph> jml2: Elon Musk too :).  But the point being that chromeOS works for the vast majority ...
16:50 < otirc> Dr_Coke: I thought they were dropping the linux kernel in Android and moving to Fuschsia, and developing it for the desktop too.
16:50 < otirc> desktop Fuschsia would take the place fo chrome os
16:50 < Dr_Coke> otirc what kernel will they use?
16:51 < otirc> Dr_Coke: their own
16:51 < Dr_Coke> A kernel based on linux?
16:51 < otirc> it would be one build, like bsd is
16:51 < Dr_Coke> or unix?
16:51 < triceratux> https://www.pocket-lint.com/laptops/news/google/138518-google-fuchsia-os-what-s-the-story-so-far
16:51 < Dr_Coke> oh nice otirc
16:51 < Dr_Coke> I like bsd
16:51 < MrElendig> they should get rid of java too
16:52 < otirc> Dr_Coke: sorry, I mean like BSD the kernel and the user space will be developed by the same people
16:52 < novik> they're already on it, kotlin is where it's at
16:52 < Frith> The only real point is, "Really?  We haven't come up with a better idea for an OS since 1971?"
16:52 < Dr_Coke> novik what is kotlin
16:52 < djph> Frith: pretty much.  but hey, when it works ...
16:52 < novik> a programming language
16:52 < Dr_Coke> otirc I know you meant like the bsd kernel
16:52 < Dr_Coke> but I think it's a great idea
16:52 < compdoc> if it aint broke...
16:52 < Dr_Coke> I've heard the bsd kernel is better
16:52 < Dr_Coke> then linux
16:53 < Dr_Coke> can do more things
16:53 < otirc> Frith: Grand Fathers of UNIX were the shit
16:53 < Frith> djph: The problem is that while "perfect" is the enemy of "good", "working" is the enemy of "better".
16:53 < fendur> Dr_Coke: like what?
16:53 < Dr_Coke> fendur I forget actually lol
16:53 < fendur> that's helpful :)
16:53 < Dr_Coke> lol
16:53 < djph> Frith: I mean, I suppose they tried in the 80s, and apparently that one's been popular...
16:53 < compdoc> seems to me, BSD is developed slower. fewer people working on it
16:54 < fendur> which BSD?
16:54 < Frith> There was an interesting attempt at a global memory space back in the early 90s.  The etch wasn't really ready for it then,. but it sounds like it might make sense now.
16:54 < otirc> Frith: the AT&T unix of the 70s is a world away from where we are today. Its like says cars haven't advaced since the 70s
16:54 < JimBuntu> I think we are ready for Multix
16:55 < Frith> otirc: "Everything is a file" is pretty baked in still.
16:55 < azarus> otirc: cars still bring you from A to B, in the 70s and still today
16:55 < JimBuntu> s/Multix/Multics
16:55 < TheSilentLink> exactly what bsd as macOS doesn't seem to be developed slower and that is bsd
16:55 < otirc> JimBuntu: maybe hurd
16:55 < azarus> Minix! :D
16:56 < TheSilentLink> JimBuntu: we meet again!
16:56 < JimBuntu> Hey There TheSilentLink
16:57 < TheSilentLink> hi
16:57 < Psi-Jack> TheSilentLink: Well, macOS forks off FreeBSD, but they have their own layers on top of that.
16:57 < Frith> JimBuntu: Yep -- the joke was that Unix came from taking Multix and cutting out the interesting parts.
16:57 < Frith> Hence why it sounds like a different word.
16:57 < otirc> Psi-Jack: don't they use part of the Mach kernel too?
16:57 < jml2> it was multics
16:57 < jml2> unix does take things from multics :)
16:58 < TheSilentLink> well it is listed on http://www.bsd.org/
16:58 < Psi-Jack> otirc: I doubt it.
16:59 < Frith> Another idea -- what if we start having all systems with only cache and non-volatile ram?  Would you still base an OS on a concept of "files"?
16:59 < rindolf> Frith: there was eros
16:59 < rindolf> Frith: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EROS_(microkernel)
16:59 < JimBuntu> Frith, and it comes full circle... the snake eats it's tail.
17:00 < Frith> JimBuntu: Oh, sure.  But we've been replaying the 70's greatest hits for a while.  We shouyld go back and try the 60's for a bit.
17:01 < etaleo> Could someone help me troubleshooting this weird wifi problem? I've upgraded OpenVPN from 2.3.10 to 2.4.5 and added a VPN connection. Now I don't know if this was the cause or if I already had this problem before. I've got two wifi networks, A and B (and some unrelated C). When I boot my laptop I can connect to A. I can connect to network C and back to A. However, as soon as I connect to network B, I cannot connect to network A anymore.
17:01 < otirc> Psi-Jack: I thought Darwin was built with the XNU kernel that pulls in parts of the Mach kernel with the BSD Kernel
17:01 < JimBuntu> Frith, Well, for the manu ideas and the grand scale, I think it may make more sense now. Either way, I like the idea of a snake eating it's own tail for the logo for any such project.
17:02 < Frith> etaleo: Are you sure that some network manager isn't trying to "help" alongthe way?  What do the routes look like?
17:02 < jml2> otirc, darwin was influenced by a project called "mklinux"
17:02 < Frith> And, that pretty much exhausts my initial debugging ideas.
17:03 < zapotah> hrrh, wonder if i can dig up the install scripts from an iso...
17:03 < paddy|> any trojan that needs to be reinstalled?
17:03 < paddy|> i am rebooting soon
17:03 < jml2> Frith, you're living in a little Indian vehicle :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eicher_Polaris_Multix  -- it is called "Multics" you noob :)
17:04 < etaleo> B -> C -> B -> C etc works btw. I just cannot connect to A anymore after I've connected to B.
17:04 < zapotah> someone know off the top of their head where centos anaconda stores the install scripts?
17:04 < etaleo> Frith: How can I find out, which output of which command do you need?
17:04 < paddy|> zapotah: /var/log?
17:04 < jml2> otirc, and apple mentions Linux in their own kernel pdf document :)
17:04 < jml2> lol
17:04 < zapotah> paddy|: wat
17:05 < paddy|> yeah, better i shut up again
17:05 < jml2> ,/var/log nice :)
17:05 < Psi-Jack> otirc: Darwin might.
17:06 < jml2> zapotah, should be in root
17:06 < jml2> zapotah, if it behaves like rh...
17:06 < zapotah> jml2: its centos/rhel
17:06 < jml2> zapotah, i presume you mean the unattended xml configuration
17:06 < zapotah> jml2: yeah
17:06 < jml2> zapotah, (/root)
17:06 < Frith> etaleo: I am often fighting the various network managers.  I don't have a lot of good tips other than to see what the configs look like.
17:07 < otirc> Psi-Jack: isn't Darwin what apple uses
17:07 < zapotah> jml2: its a custom distro but leverages anaconda nonetheless
17:07 < zapotah> jml2: cheers
17:07 < zapotah> ill find it
17:07 < jml2> zapotah, np
17:07 < zapotah> got a...semi installed os
17:07 < Psi-Jack> otirc: Darwin is part of what Apple uses.
17:08 < zapotah> its missing some stuff and i need to retrace the installation by hand and fix it
17:08 < BCMM> jml2: "influenced" it may be, in that XNU is also a project to run a Unix kernel on top of the Mach microkernel
17:09 < jml2> zapotah, https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/installation_guide/chap-kickstart-installations
17:09 < BCMM> but it's not directly derived from it - mklinux was GPL, Darwin's kernel is not
17:09 < jml2> BCMM, consult apple's kernel pdf documentation :)
17:09 < BCMM> jml2: got a link?
17:10 < jml2> BCMM, do I care? :)
17:10 < jml2> BCMM, i've known about it over a decade ago :)
17:11 < BCMM> jml2: it's not even clear what your point is
17:12 < otirc> BCMM: good point on the GPL, XNU contain any linux code due to it's license
17:12 < jml2> zapotah, I was tending to believe you were saving a configuration from the installer, essentially that should of saved any xml file in the root account
17:13 < jml2> BCMM, there is no point, stating fact over opinion, there was somewhat an influence the mklinux project had on apple's xnu kernel even if it is considered minimal
17:13 < triceratux> guys if /etc/resolv.conf isnt a symlink to /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf & dns doesnt work unless i hardcode nameserver 8.8.8.8 effectively keeping ping & hexchat from working what kind of problem is it ? https://www.google.com/search?q="%2Frun%2Fresolvconf%2Fresolv.conf"
17:13 < BCMM> jml2: i haven't disputed that
17:13 < jml2> BCMM, it is documented, you should at least know there are "kernel" documents with apple. You should at least know how to google it and read up about it. :)
17:13 < BCMM> jml2: what i don't understand is why you're asking me to consult a piece of documentation that you think you remember reading once
17:13 < otirc> lol
17:13 < jml2> triceratux, that's tricky stuff, because now there's systemd's resolv service which is tinkable for this..
17:14 < djph> triceratux: you're not using dnsmasq / network mangler to do work for you?
17:14 < jml2> triceratux, it's a real pita
17:14  * triceratux has never seen a distro with networkmanager so confused it cant do dns
17:14 < djph> or networkd
17:14 < jml2> triceratux, iirc nm I think has a setting for sytsemd's "resolv" .. if you're using systemd's resolv, then you'll need to consult the manpage for it..
17:14 < BCMM> then you haven't seen a distro with networkmanager so confused by its own lockfiles that it literally doesn't do anything
17:15 < BCMM> (that was years ago and i don't think i've touched Ubuntu since)
17:15  * jml2 ( https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-resolved.service.html )
17:15 < triceratux> jml2: im beginning to suspect this. googledns to the rescue. at least ive got network while im deciding whether i want to investigate this. the usable is the enemy of the properly configured :)
17:16 < jml2> triceratux, iirc that is a "fallback" that I think systemd's resolvd uses...
17:17 < triceratux> i run dozens of distros & ive never encountered it this broken. my hardware is fine, my connection is fine. therez no excuse
17:17 < paddy|> :(
17:18 < triceratux> jml2: excellent link thanks. im face to face with this 127.0.0.53 stuff. its benign on the rest of the distros
17:19 < jml2> triceratux, /etc/default/docker:#DOCKER_OPTS="--dns 8.8.8.8 --dns 8.8.4.4"   .. I know my docuker has an sample entry for this... you can grep -ri 8.8.8.8 /etc , and see if there's something in there
17:19 < jml2> triceratux, then likely you are using dnsmasq ...
17:19 < jml2> triceratux, either you are going directly to the roothint servers from dnsmasq, or you are using the isp's dns servers as forwarders
17:20 < jml2> triceratux, or you are using google's dns servers as forwarders from dnsmasq..
17:20 < jml2> triceratux, the dnsmasq is a hybrid -- it is a dns server and a forwarder...
17:20 < jml2> triceratux, and iirc it also has a dhcp role if you enable it..
17:22 < triceratux> jml2: im running the iso live on the metal & what gets me is how the dev doesnt see a bug. http:// is somehow unaffected so apt-get & the browsers actually work. but ping & hexchat are down. strikes me as an artifact of the installer actually. chances are at installtime theres a bug & the fix is rapid & persistent so the real cause isnt being examined
17:23 < BCMM> triceratux: what was in resolv.conf before you hardcoded 8.8.8.8?
17:23 < triceratux> BCMM: nameserver 127.0.0.53 followed by search lan
17:24 < BCMM> triceratux: and what sort of network are you connected to? this kind of sounds like a network with an http proxy but no internet route
17:24 < BCMM> triceratux: also what distro? (sorry if you've answered that one already)
17:26 < triceratux> BCMM: its just a home consumer isp router with no issues on other distros. /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf isnt in the loop but it has nameserver 127.0.1.1 in it. cutting it in doesnt help. only googledns fixes it. yesterdays extonos http://www.extix.se/?p=393
17:26 < jml2> triceratux, that's address is only servicing the local machine,  if you dont know what a dns forwarder is or what are root hints then you can always completely disable dnsmasq, but then you need to update your NM setting
17:26 < jml2> triceratux, and then make sure you are using one of the legacy/traditional resolv.conf things
17:28 < BCMM> triceratux: 127.0.0.53 means it's trying to use systemd-resolved (local caching DNS server built in to systemd, because why the hell not...). presumably, systemd-resolved is either disabled or not working properly
17:28 < triceratux> BCMM: the 17.8 release behaved the same but it used wicd so it needed a dns1 in /etc/wicd/wired-setting.conf to be made persistent. the new release hes replaced wicd with network-manager & the fix isnt so obvious
17:29 < BCMM> triceratux: new release of what?
17:29 < BCMM> oh extix, right sorry
17:30 < paddy|> Manjaro?
17:30 < willmafh> Hello, everyone…I am trying to play with the new os, minoca-os…I am a Linux fan absolutely…I've used Debian for almost five years…I just wanna try this new one…And I want to boot it up in my macbook using qemu … But there seems lack tutorials to teach you how to achieve this… So I have to asking some help here… Is there anyone can give me some help… Any help will be appreciated…
17:30 < triceratux> BCMM: yep & everything else about it is great. kernel 4.16.2, xorg 1.19.6, lxqt 0.12.0, all the codecs. once its online you dont even notice an issue
17:31 < BCMM> triceratux: the thing with http working and ping not working is weird, though - that really shouldn't be a dns problem
17:32 < triceratux> BCMM: yep im way out of my depth. ill be digging into it over the days. worst part is hes got no community so nobody runs the thing so nobody sees the bug
17:32 < kazdax> i am doing .. mv /test/a* /test/a-files
17:32 < kazdax> to move all files starting with a into a files
17:32 < kazdax> its not working
17:33 < anchnk> hey how can i insert empty lines in notify-send body ? I would like to add a bit of room in some text I am passing to it
17:33 < BCMM> triceratux: any chance this is problem along the lines of http client using ipv4, but ping trying to use nonexistent ipv6 service?
17:34 < triceratux> BCMM: i started suspecting that indeed
17:35 < BCMM> triceratux: these days most ping implementations can take `ping -4` or `ping -6` as params
17:36 < jml2> triceratux, firefox and chrome I think are trying to achieve internal dns resolving, that is separate from the host
17:36 < jml2> triceratux, not sure on the current status, but that's what I think these two browsers are heading to
17:37 < triceratux> BCMM: this is what the net stuff looks like now that its working http://pastebin.centos.org/691601/raw/
17:42 < jml2> triceratux, https://www.hiroom2.com/2017/08/24/ubuntu-1610-nameserver-127-0-0-53-en/
17:43 < triceratux> jml2: excellent thanks. im just getting into that first link. never encountered any of this before
17:44 < jhaenchen> When I set a USB device's audio volume it skips levels on the audio device. Device has 12 levels, yet using programmatic means of setting volume skips from level 1->2->5->6->12
17:44 < jhaenchen> Any linux-specific issues that might come ot mind for that?
17:45 < jhaenchen> Maybe it's a relative setting...
17:48 < zorrodacat> hello
17:49 < zorrodacat> i got a simple question. I normally passed kernel modules parameters using grub command line, but for some specific hardware they say I should do it with initrd instead
17:49 < zorrodacat> do you know what they refer to ?
17:49 < zorrodacat> thanks
17:54 < SkunkyFone> zorrodacat: kernel command line stuff is usually for things that are actually built into the kernel.  initrd is used to load modules before your system is running.... it really depends on how you've got your kernel set up.
17:57 < RayTracer> zorrodacat: maybe /etc/modprobe.d/ snippets in the initramfs for the module parameters
17:57 < jamtoast> zorrodacat: dracut has a kernel_cmdline parameter in /etc/dracut.conf
17:58 < zorrodacat> the guy is saying 'looks like including i915 in my initrd was necessary. Strangely, not if using the boot cmdline parameter.'
17:59 < zorrodacat> https://github.com/intel/intel-vaapi-driver/issues/312#issuecomment-349726243
17:59 < zorrodacat> i just know how to pass with grub_cmd/kernel params
17:59 < zorrodacat> how do i pass stuff to i915 using initrd
18:00 < zorrodacat> thank you guys
18:00 < Dagmar> It's kinda doubtful that it's necessary to put the i915 driver into your initrd unless you're trying to make the machine do something fancy on the screen before the usual / is mounted
18:00 < zorrodacat> its a bug
18:00 < zorrodacat> i mean 01/intel linux vs debian 9 stretch kernel
18:00 < zorrodacat> some kind of mismatch
18:00 < zorrodacat> it took me 3 hours to load the other intel firmwares
18:00 < zorrodacat> ...
18:00 < zorrodacat> but they all work
18:01 < zorrodacat> only miss this one HuC and it seems to be the solution
18:03 < kazdax> i am doing
18:03 < kazdax> tar -xvf test.tgz -C ~/root/
18:04 < kazdax> but this isnt creating a test folder in root/
18:04 < TomyWork> bad idea if you didnt make test.tgz ^^
18:05 < TomyWork> what does "tar tvf test.tgz" say? (paste the result to a pastebin site like the one mentioned in the topic)
18:05 < kazdax> i ahve test,tgz
18:05 < kazdax> it dosnt say anything
18:06 < kazdax> hold on a sec
18:06 < kazdax> i am sort of confused
18:06 < TomyWork> noted :)
18:07 < triceratux> oh gawd theres *both* a /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf & a /run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf rofl
18:07  * triceratux has some substantial desquirreling to do
18:07 < jelly> triceratux: but where does /etc/resolv.conf point to?!?!?
18:07 < Dagmar> Burn it out of the system with a blowtorch
18:08 < Todden> Ive got an old laptop here which i want to use for my grandma as a spotify machine,as in that is ALL it will be doing as if it has the ability to do pretty much ANYTHING else she is guarenteed to somehow break the thing or not work it,i want to just boot it up and spotify turns on...best way to do that anyone?
18:08 < TomyWork> not symlinked in any way? what does "test /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf -ef /run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf; echo $?" say?
18:08 < Todden> Im thinking a linux distro with spotify set to auto launch full screen,but idk which one or even tbh HOW to do that...im not good with linux
18:08 < Dagmar> TomyWork: It's populated by pillaging /etc/resolv.conf actually
18:08 < Todden> And linux over windows as she will somehow riddle it with viruses
18:08 < triceratux> jelly: originally it wasnt a symlink. it was a hardocded deck. that was my first clue
18:09 < jelly> the resolvconf one is useless if the /etc one is not a symlink
18:09 < triceratux> jelly: yep i just read that in the manpage. hope its accurate
18:09 < Dagmar> I'll just be over here waiting for the eventual announcement of the root-level vulnerability caused by slipping a unicode DNS resolver into everyone's breakfast
18:09 < blackflag_bfp> killing me I am so close.
18:09 < AStorm> hello, is there a pthread call equivalent of sched_setattr?
18:09 < AStorm> I'm trying to use SCHED_DEADLINE
18:09 < TomyWork> Todden in the medium term, an appliance is probably cheaper :)
18:09 < jelly> Dagmar: are you implying the NIH people are crappy with their understanding of DNS?
18:10 < Dagmar> I'm implying that the libraries that handle that stuff are still full of dragons
18:10 < jelly> dig ☭.org SOA
18:10 < TomyWork> Todden like a wifi radio
18:11 < NGC3982> xn--u4h
18:11 < Todden> True,but i already HAVE the laptop
18:11 < Todden> And dont need it
18:11 < Todden> And it'd need to be a nice simple GUI,like spotify has
18:11 < blackflag_bfp> I cahnged the default WM in xfce4-session.xml and it loads up with i3 controls and xfce interfaces but one of my screens is wacked out (broken into multi sections, unrespomsive, etc)
18:11 < TomyWork> Todden the power cost of that old dust eater alone will probably push it over the one-time cost of a wifi radio :)
18:11 < TomyWork> Todden unless you're in iceland or something
18:12 < Todden> TomyWork: True but she doesn't think like that...she wouldnt let anyone buy her anything but will let us repurpose old stuff
18:12 < Todden> She's depression era,so minimal spending
18:12 < blackflag_bfp> I'm sorry in advanced my typing is very rusty
18:12 < Todden> But you're right
18:13 < Todden> Hell if we tell her we are splitting the cost of the spotify acc amongst her family she'd balk at us for spending money
18:13 < Todden> And because of her age she basically gets free power bills
18:13 < Todden> (Its a UK thing in this area)
18:13 < TomyWork> just dont tell her it costs money :D
18:13 < TomyWork> the spotify account i mean
18:13 < Todden> Oh yeah we wont
18:13 < Todden> Lol
18:13 < Todden> We will say its free
18:14 < TomyWork> like an extra netflix client
18:14 < TomyWork> :D
18:14 < Todden> I was thinking a basic linux OS just set up with spotify,as it'd be hard for her to fuck that up
18:14 < Todden> She wouldnt even understand what netflix is
18:14 < Todden> Her husband has just died(my grandad) and he was the tech guy
18:14 < Todden> He was useless as shit
18:14 < TomyWork> i meant you can tell her it's free like an extra netflix account
18:14 < Todden> But she hasnt so much as operated anything outside of the kitchen in 40 years
18:14 < Todden> We had to spend 30 minutes showing her how to use a radio
18:14 < Todden> As in,a normal radio
18:14 < TomyWork> errrr
18:15 < TomyWork> i think i'm going to have to make you aware of something
18:15 < koala_man> how about an amazon echo or something that you just talk to
18:15 < Todden> koala_man: I'm seriously considering that
18:15 < Todden> and TomyWork if you are wondering how she could work spotify,she could do it with a bit of coaching
18:15 < TomyWork> there are still people with no internet, especially old people with no tech skills
18:15 < Todden> Its got quite a simple UI
18:16 < RayTracer> AStorm: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/pthread_attr_setschedpolicy.3.html - but SCHED_DEADLINE is not listed as supported value
18:16 < Todden> Oh i know TomyWork but she chose not to use technology
18:16 < Todden> I wasnt being sexist or anything
18:16 < Todden> She actively chose to let grandad deal with all tech stuff
18:16 < Todden> Outside of the kitchen
18:16 < TomyWork> i wasnt suggesting that
18:16 < TomyWork> you might have misread :)
18:16 < Todden> She has internet
18:16 < TomyWork> ah
18:16 < Todden> If that's what you are wondering
18:16 < AStorm> RayTracer: no, that's not good enough, SCHED_DEADLINE needs extra attributes to work
18:16 < TomyWork> yes
18:16 < Todden> As my grandad had internet
18:17 < Todden> And it hasnt been cancelled
18:17 < Todden> Its not being used atm,but it's still a connected line with a router
18:17 < Todden> We set it up for him
18:17 < Todden> He was like...normal old person level
18:17 < twainwek> does she know how to use a tv?
18:17 < Todden> not really
18:17 < Todden> She kind of does now
18:17 < AStorm> ah well, it doesn't exist then
18:17 < Todden> But if it switches to HDMI instead of TV someone has to come over and fix it
18:17 < Todden> for instance
18:17 < Todden> She does REALLY like the sound of spotify though
18:17 < kazdax> okay i amusing rm -r /test to remove a directory and its contents from the screen
18:17 < twainwek> get her a smart tv and load it up with cody or whatever it's called?
18:18 < kazdax> its keeps asking me questions about giving a yes or no
18:18 < Todden> As she loves music,and grandad never listened to music so she couldnt
18:18 < kazdax> how do i just delete the file without it throwing any questions at me
18:18 < Todden> twainwek: Im thinking that might actually be the best idea
18:18 < Todden> Like a smart TV stick
18:18 < koala_man> kazdax: that's the default behavior, but you've aliased rm to rm -i. you can add -f
18:18 < AStorm> kazdax: someone (e.g. ubuntu) aliased your rm to rm -i
18:18 < RayTracer> kazdax: red hat has some aliases in .bashrc that put -i in place
18:18 < Todden> I was hoping to use this laptop as we already have it
18:18 < Todden> And she hates the idea of ppl spending money on her
18:18 < Todden> But it'll be a lot of effort
18:18 < AStorm> you can list aliases with "alias" builtin
18:19 < kazdax> so that means each time i do rm
18:19 < kazdax> its already doing rm -i ?
18:19 < koala_man> yes
18:19 < Todden> Hypothetically what would be the best linux distro for this,something pretty bare bones
18:19 < kazdax> ahh i see
18:19 < AStorm> if you're doing it by hand from an interactive shell I suppsoe
18:19 < Todden> That I could just chuck spotify on
18:19 < nrg> How about lubuntu todden
18:19 < Todden> I might try it myself see how easy it is/how it works before consideirng other options
18:19 < kruug> I'm installing CUDA/nVidia drivers, and it wants me to reboot.  I'm currently booted in a LiveCD environment, so no persistence.  How can I reload the video drivers without actually rebooting?
18:19 < Todden> lubuntu sounds like an idea..im not so good with linux myself(As in i have pretty much only logged about 30 hours of ubuntu time)
18:19 < TomyWork> 1. buy spotify wifi radio 2. put radio in shoddy-looking box, leaving the controls exposed 3. claim you built it
18:20 < Todden> So its mostly new to me
18:20 < Todden> TomyWork: Lol that sounds like an idea
18:20 < AStorm> kruug: uhm what. usually reboot shouldn't be necessary to load a kernel module
18:20 < Todden> How does one control a spotify wifi radio
18:20 < Todden> Like select songs and stuff
18:20 < AStorm> but X or wayland restart might be
18:20 < Todden> Since theres no GUI
18:20 < TomyWork> or, you know, just put some glue spots on the thing
18:20 < RayTracer> kruug: modprobe -r the kernel module (after shutting down X)
18:20 < AStorm> no need to -r a not yet loaded module :P
18:21 < AStorm> but you might have to modprobe -r the nouveau or whatever was used for X display
18:21 < RayTracer> question was "reload", this involves unload
18:21 < koala_man> another benefit of echo/home is that you can lock it away so no one touches it, and if it still manages to get stuck in a dialog, you can just put it on the phone and talk to it
18:21 < AStorm> also cross fingers that a) current driver has correct unload b) nvidia can init card afterwards
18:22 < kruug> Well, stopped GDM, but no it looks like it's shutting down...
18:22 < RayTracer> seems strange to put that effort into a live cd boot
18:22 < TomyWork> anyway, what you could do is lubuntu, xubuntu or something like that, put spotify into autostart, make sure it can't be minimized (could tell you how to do that in KDE, but KDE would probably be too heavy)
18:22 < jml2> kruug, but dont have a nervous breakdown over it
18:23 < kruug> Probably just going to go through the actual install to a USB to remove the lack of persistence.
18:23 < TomyWork> then you make everything physical read-only, with some kind of layered fs to allow for changes
18:23 < TomyWork> if she ever breaks it, delete layer, done
18:23 < AStorm> yes, like ubuntu can (also gentoo supports this case as well)
18:24 < TomyWork> docker might be a convienent wrapper for you here
18:24 < AStorm> as a bonus, you could use snapshots (lvm, zfs or btrfs) for rollback
18:24 < kruug> jml2: no worries.  no breakdowns going on here.
18:24 < TomyWork> convenient*
18:24 < AStorm> docker is anything but convenient ever
18:24 < AStorm> especially if you want any state
18:24 < TomyWork> AStorm point is not to have state :)
18:24 < AStorm> yeah, ask grandma to relogin every time :P
18:24 < TomyWork> or rather, to be able to discard it at will
18:25 < TomyWork> eh?
18:25 < TomyWork> why?
18:25 < TomyWork> there's autologin for that
18:25 < AStorm> and that is stateless right? :P
18:25 < TomyWork> ok now i want to know what you cover under "state"
18:25 < AStorm> seriously, every time I hear docker I actually hear "10 hours of making this container almost work"
18:26 < AStorm> 1) music cache 2) login data 3) probably more, I haven't seen what spotify needs
18:26 < TomyWork> oh you mean into spotify
18:26 < TomyWork> well, that may be a problem
18:27 < TomyWork> but only if the spotify client expires cached credentials after x days
18:27 < nrg> Plus what if they want to allow spotify to pull down files locally
18:27 < TomyWork> nrg "they" is a grandma with no tech skills or impetus to gain any
18:27 < TomyWork> Todden's, not mine :)
18:28 < TomyWork> i'm pretty sure she thinks files are in a binder and locally means next to her house
18:28 < nrg> lol
18:29 < TomyWork> (correct me if i'm overstating the problem, Todden :)
18:29 < AStorm> well I think she knows kinda how radio works, let's not insult people we do not know :P
18:30 < TomyWork> AStorm from what Todden related, that fact is a recent development :)
18:30 < TomyWork> and discarding music cache in the event of a catastrophic error doesn't seem like a big deal
18:31 < AStorm> probably yeah, but still dockerizing this makes upgrades harder
18:31 < TomyWork> that could be true
18:31 < AStorm> I'd still recommend a layered or snapshotted fs
18:32 < TomyWork> although you could just put the upgrades into the Dockerfile
18:32 < TomyWork> and just build a new container and push it to the laptop
18:32 < AStorm> presuming they work well automatically enough :P
18:32 < kazdax> tar xvf test.tgz -C .
18:32 < twainwek> how can i make file2.sh aware of an alias defined in file1.sh
18:32 < AStorm> back in an hour or so
18:32 < AStorm> kazdax: file not found
18:32 < kazdax> is that suppose to extract the files into the current directory ?
18:33 < kazdax> no it extracts but into root/test
18:33 < AStorm> nope
18:33 < kazdax> hmm
18:33 < AStorm> it changes to current directory before extracting, which makes no sense
18:33 < TomyWork> kazdax have you pastebinned the t output i asked you for?
18:33 < kazdax> ya hold on a sec
18:33 < kazdax> you know what
18:33 < kazdax> fuck trying to learn from videos
18:33 < kazdax> books alwys rule and will always rule
18:34 < TomyWork> or just a good old-fashioned written tutorial
18:34 < kazdax> right
18:34 < jhaenchen> i have literally never learned a single coding language from a book. makes no sense to me. learn by doing, yo
18:34 < twainwek> if in file2.sh i do `source file1.sh` and then call `my_alias args`, it complains about `my_alias command not found undefined`
18:34 < kazdax> it dosnt make sense to learn terminal from videos
18:34 < kazdax> its only fancy shansy
18:34 < TomyWork> there's http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/
18:34 < uplime> twainwek: aliases are disabled by defaults in script
18:34 < uplime> s
18:34 < TomyWork> and there's https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide
18:34 < uplime> TomyWork: gross. don't use tldp for shell scripting
18:35 < TomyWork> uplime i was about to say, i cant vouch for the quality of the former, but the later is usually accurate
18:35 < TomyWork> ...if you know the posix standard's definitions by heart
18:35 < uplime> yeah the wooledge guide is much better
18:35 < uplime> twainwek: you should use a function over an alias
18:36 < TomyWork> ooh, lemme try this on you
18:36 < AStorm> kazdax: the option you might want is --strip-components=<number>
18:36 < AStorm> usually tarballs have a directory inside
18:36 < TomyWork> uplime printf 'foo\nbar' > file.txt # is file.txt a text file?
18:36 < uplime> yep
18:36 < AStorm> no, it's a file
18:36 < uplime> a text file is a file
18:36 < AStorm> files have no inherent format you know
18:36 < uplime> indeed
18:37 < xandroid52> i dont want to change the topic of this channel but guys do you think that taurine and energy drinks are bad?
18:37 < uplime> it still has text in it though
18:37 < TomyWork> uplime  note that printf doesn't put a newline at the end
18:37 < uplime> it could also be considered a binary file
18:37 < uplime> TomyWork: indeed
18:37 < AStorm> xandroid52: 1) no 2) depends on amount of caffeine and sugar mostly
18:37 < uplime> oh, if you're going by that definition of text file, no its not one
18:37 < uplime> (where every line ends in \n)
18:38 < xandroid52> AStorm Thanks for answering, mm, okay, what about 2 energy drinks per day, is it bad?, or 2 since when...idk..like 3 days or 4
18:38 < fendur> xandroid52: I'll give a different opinion. Yes. They are bad. Don't drink even one a day.
18:38 < AStorm> xandroid52: hard to say, depends on exact contents of the energy drink, they tend to have a lot of sugar; the sugarfree versions are more comparable to a coffee
18:39 < AStorm> same caveats apply (you get used to caffeine, overdosing it results in caffeinism)
18:39 < TomyWork> uplime and you'd be wrong, according to posix :) http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap03.html#tag_03_403 http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap03.html#tag_03_206
18:39 < uplime> TomyWork: indeed. hence my revision
18:39 < Frith> I do around 10 diet mountain dews, a cup of coffee, and a red bull or two, along with starting the day with a 5hr energy.
18:40 < Frith> But, I'm old.
18:40 < TomyWork> ah, i was busy looking shit up ^^
18:40 < uplime> ah
18:40 < xandroid52> im not old
18:40 < uplime> yes, you are definitely correct TomyWork
18:40 < AStorm> ah the old posix definition of text file
18:40 < AStorm> the crucial part is LINE_MAX there
18:40 < uplime> when I think of text file, I just think of a file with text in it, not the POSIX definition
18:40 < xandroid52> AStorm Thank you again, ill probabbly drink sugarfree from now, i have this horrible problem, my body gets used to e v e r y  t h i n g :c
18:40 < TomyWork> AStorm that's not even the worst part imo :)
18:41 < xandroid52> i drink 1 energydrink perday for 2 days and now i need two to get the same effect as one kill me pls
18:41 < fendur> xandroid52: that's just the humanity in you.
18:41 < TomyWork> imo the worse part is that unintuitive subtlety, declaring files not ending in a newline not-text-files
18:41 < xandroid52> fendur i wish i could control that humanity xD
18:41 < fendur> xandroid52: try water and morning exercise routine.
18:41 < Frith> There's nothing wrong with a caffiene addiction.  It's one of the few socially acceptable things to be addicted to.
18:41 < AStorm> well there is one thing wrong perhaps, mostly...
18:42 < fendur> Frith: well there certainly ARE things wrong with it. but you're right that's it's very accepted.
18:42 < AStorm> that you can't use it in burst to dope anymore :P
18:42 < TomyWork> AStorm would you base any part of a guide aimed at beginners, or even intermediates, on that definition?
18:43 < TomyWork> and by basing on that definition i mean assuming the definition as prior knowledge
18:43 < fr0b> I need plenty of wholesome, nutritious alcohol.
18:44 < TomyWork> ethanol is actually converted usable energy by the liver, fr0b
18:45 < TomyWork> not before destroying most cells it touches on the way, though :D
18:48 < djph> TomyWork: it's worth it
18:56 < xandroid52> fendur i do
18:57 < xandroid52> fendur but i love energy drinks makes me feel more alive than of what i am, and thats because in the deep im sad xd
18:57 < Dagmar> I just like caffiene.
18:57 < Dagmar> If I wanted the taste of Flintstone's Chewables in my mouth, I'd buy those
18:58 < Dagmar> So for me, it's generally Full Throttle or I'm just adding powdered caffiene to lemonade or Tang or something
18:58 < Dagmar> Also at about the 200mg level I write a lot fewer lines of sh*tcode, and very little cancer
18:59 < Dagmar> Well, mainly I can see I'm writing sh*tcode in realtime instead of the usual 300 lines and then deleting 200 lines of it (to replace with 5-7 lines) in disgust
19:06 < Dagmar> For those wondering, writing cancer is when you start down the entirely wrong solution to a problem, only to realize several days (or thousands of lines of code) later than there was an entirely more correct and far more elegant way to solve the problem
19:06 < Dagmar> ...and now you have a *lot* of work to do to undo the mess you've made.
19:06 < kruug> Dagmar: XY problem?
19:06 < TomyWork> xandroid52 really? certain kinds of candy absolutely crash my metabolism in short order once i'm done eating them. maybe it's that?
19:06 < Dagmar> kruug: Nope.  Definitely solving the right problem, just doing it the wrong way
19:07 < uplime> that just happened to me the other day :|
19:07 < Dagmar> Like, I've got this big pile of code for theorycrafting game mechanics... At one point I thought, "Well, I'll just wedge the weather coefficient into this part here"
19:08 < Dagmar> ...except then I had no way to properly represent it in the detailed breakdown of how the numbers were arrived at because it was baked into the initial calculations
19:08 < Dagmar> I wound up moving that whole mess into it's own class
19:08 < Penguin> Dagmar: "its"
19:09 < triceratux> \o/ woo woo fixed extonos 18.4 dns
19:09 < TomyWork> that's a penguin peeve
19:09 < triceratux> the right symlink is sudo ln -sf /run/systemd/resolve/resolv.conf /etc/resolv.conf
19:09 < triceratux> just like the manpage says
19:09 < \_{oo}__> high! got a problem... i'm running a kdiff3 over two (apparantly equal) file system portions... now the process stopped ("S" in /proc/<pid>/stat) and i can't seem to continue it (kill -cont <pid> shows no effect)... the file systems are still alive and accessible... any idea what could cause that disturbance?
19:10 < Dagmar> kruug: Later I wound up turning each scenario into an object which could _cache_ the results because the truly cancerous part was that I was just invoking the calculation methods, which became lulsy on the CPU when it came to iteratively comparing 100 opponents against another 100 opponents
19:10 < Frith> Dagmar: I'm there with you now.  It often takes starting in on the problem for a while before you stumble on the right answer.
19:10 < Frith> I'm currently debugging a problem that lies somewhere between a driver and an FPGA implementation.  And it isn't fun.
19:10 < Dagmar> Dear god
19:10 < Frith> Yeah.
19:10 < Frith> It certainly doesn't help that I'm barely RTL literate.
19:11  * Psi-Jack adjusts Frith's mind and reverse everything.
19:12 < Frith> Oh, that's much better.  No everything;'s LTR.
19:12 < Frith> (Now everything's)
19:12 < Psi-Jack> (: ¿ʇᴉ ʇ,usǝop 'sdlǝH :ɥʇᴉɹℲ
19:12 < \_{oo}__> that was a cool one...
19:12 < Psi-Jack> hehehe
19:13 < \_{oo}__> broke my status bar... :-/ thank god there's ^L
19:13 < Frith> (:
19:14 < solidfox> \_{oo}__, how should I say your name in my head?
19:14 < solidfox> your nick
19:14 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: oogling-eyes.
19:14 < \_{oo}__> solidfox: try "wavebot" :-D
19:14 < Dr_Coke> fixed up my debian distro although still got some kde crap in it
19:14 < Dr_Coke> and now back to xfce
19:15 < \_{oo}__> oogling eyes would be okay, but reminds of &$(§8§
19:15 < Dr_Coke> had to delete my user
19:15 < Dr_Coke> and remake it
19:15 < Dr_Coke> to get rid of crap
19:15 < Psi-Jack> Dr_Coke: You don't need to do such drastic things to accomplish  that.
19:16 < Dr_Coke> well Psi-Jack I think it was a good idea
19:16 < Dr_Coke> cause my themes were corrupt
19:16 < Dr_Coke> someone in debian told me to
19:16 < Psi-Jack> Shoot them.
19:16 < Dr_Coke> well actually he said something and I got the idea from them to do that
19:17 < Psi-Jack> Rename home dir, re-create home dir, then at least you can piece it back together, if desired, or back it up if you hadn't.
19:17 < \_{oo}__> w
19:17 < \_{oo}__> oops
19:18 < Psi-Jack> \_{oo}__: Did you see me? ;)
19:19 < \_{oo}__> Psi-Jack: please ask again ;-)
19:20 < Psi-Jack> \_{oo}__: No no no. When you ran w in your terminal. :-)
19:20 < \_{oo}__> well, no... i didn't see you there... should i?
19:20 < fr0b> dun dun dun
19:20 < Psi-Jack> Oh good! Works then. hehehe
19:21 < \_{oo}__> "ask again" was actually for testing my highlighting... i don't get a line-hilight when my nick appears... only a nick-hilight... ya, well...
19:21 < Psi-Jack> \_{oo}__: Heh.
19:24 < \_{oo}__> anyway, anyone having an idea how a process can just be stopped and unabled to be continued? that should have a reason...
19:25 < Psi-Jack> \_{oo}__: Hmm? Not sure I understand you clearly. What's the problem exactly?
19:27 < NoirX> hello
19:27 < jim> hi
19:27 < Psi-Jack> hola
19:27 < \_{oo}__> Psi-Jack: i ran kdiff3 (over ~800GB of data) and somewhere in the middle it just stopped... and i don't know why... file systems involved are alive and accessible...
19:28 < \_{oo}__> Psi-Jack: and i have no way to continuing the process...
19:28 < Psi-Jack> Ahh.. 800GB? O.O
19:28 < NoirX> how can i connect to samba server? smbclient 192.168.1.12/share?
19:28 < Psi-Jack> Maybe you'd get better results from Meld.
19:28 < \_{oo}__> yeah, not my favourite plan, but i just restarted it... :-/
19:28 < Psi-Jack> NoirX: //192.168.1.12/share would work
19:29 < NoirX> ok
19:34 < triceratux> hrm got extonos 18.4 working just in time http://news.softpedia.com/news/linux-kernel-4-15-reached-end-of-life-users-urged-to-move-to-linux-4-16-now-520787.shtml https://sourceforge.net/projects/extix/files/?source=navbar
19:38 < instigator> Hello. Which log file does DNSMASQ log errors to?
19:39 < Psi-Jack> Whatever log you tell it to, if you tell it to.
19:40 < cu_cucambur> I connected the physical interface to a bridge and have a veth pair connected to it and a container
19:40 < cu_cucambur> Now the host on the bridge can ping the container and vice-versa
19:40 < cu_cucambur> But I can't ping the container from any other host
19:41 < Todden> tomyWork you here?
19:41 < Todden> ~tell
19:41 < Todden> ~message
19:41 < Todden> We got a message function?
19:42 < cu_cucambur> Todden, You mean like a direct messaging?
19:42 < ||JD||>  /msg tomyWork wake up motherfucker!!!
19:42 < Psi-Jack> ||JD||: Ahem.
19:42 < Todden> Nah i mean like leaving a message when someones back
19:42 < Todden> My other server has one
19:42 < Todden> They get it when they log back in
19:42 < Psi-Jack> Todden: memoserv, or /msg
19:43 < Todden> Thanks
19:43 < sla3k> LOL
19:43 < Todden> Also bugger,i have had a magnet link running for hours
19:43 < Todden> With DHT,PEX AND peer discovery off
19:43 < Todden> No wonder it wasnt working(my private tracker has rules to have them all off)
19:44 < Todden> Downloading lubuntu
19:44  * Psi-Jack rolls his eyes
19:44  * revel rolls Psi-Jack
19:44  * aBound rolls into the shadows
19:45  * ayecee picks them up and rolls them back
19:45  * lI1|1Il1 rolls a tumbleweed down the channel street
19:45  * junka bakes rolls
19:45 < revel> (-.-) (|:) (.-.) (:|) (-.)
19:45 < Todden> ~memoserv
19:45  * ayecee does a barrel roll
19:45 < revel> Wait, I lost an eye???
19:45 < revel> Todden: There are no bots in ##linux
19:45 < junka> revel; you have been hacked
19:45 < Todden> darn it
19:45 < revel> /msg memoserv help
19:46 < revel> Memoserv is network-wide.
19:46 < solidfox> roll-tide
19:47 < Todden> After ALL of that,he hasnt registered his nick
19:47 < Todden> peasent
19:47 < junka> peanut
19:48 < ayecee> porkrind
19:48 < oleo> poodlefoodle
19:48 < Psi-Jack> Todden: Yeah, he did. /whowas
19:49  * cu_cucambur help
19:49 < revel> Todden: Who hasn't?
19:49 < Todden> Tomywork
19:49 < Todden> Ahh he is registered
19:49 < Todden> thanks
19:50 < revel> It doesn't seem like it, according to nickserv.
19:50  * aBound username checks out
19:50 < Psi-Jack> aBound: The codes are old, but they still check out.
19:50 < aBound> Psi-Jack, Checking out at the hotels. :P
19:50 < aBound> Dang old codes.
19:52 < aBound> The web is filled with old codes let's write some new ones.
19:52  * aBound say cheese :P
19:52 < lI1|1Il1> cheat codes?
19:53 < aBound> Gameshark and Game Genie codes. :D
19:53 < aBound> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_genie
19:53 < cu_cucambur> I setuped a bridge and connected the physical interface to it then a veth pair
19:54 < cu_cucambur> the other pair is on a container
19:54 < ||JD||> "I wanna be like kevin"
19:54 < cu_cucambur> I can't ping the container from any host except the host on the bridge
19:54  * cu_cucambur help
19:55 < lI1|1Il1> you probably need to setup NAT or whatever its called to route packets to the container
19:55 < cu_cucambur> Well the things that they'll have the same network mask
19:55 < cu_cucambur> and the other hosts can get resolve their macs with arp
19:56 < lI1|1Il1> and one is actually on the network, one isnt
19:56 < cu_cucambur> and even more bizzare the ping packets reach other hosts when I sniff them
19:56 < cu_cucambur> that ping packets from the container
20:01 < cu_cucambur> Container ----->
20:01 < cu_cucambur> 		 bridge  ----> router  <----- phyiscal host
20:01 < cu_cucambur> VM ------------>
20:02 < cu_cucambur> lI1|1Il1, that's how the network setuped
20:02 < cu_cucambur> IPs with same network subnet
20:07 < aBound> Swoosh... :P
20:10 < mawk> you need to use proxy_arp cu_cucambur
20:10 < mawk> well normally no, if the physical host is connected on the bridge
20:11 < cu_cucambur> mawk, but how do you explain that other hosts can resolve the container's mac address
20:12 < mawk> how did you setup the bridge ?
20:13 < cu_cucambur> using brctl. Created a new bridge then connected the physical interface to it and gave the host an ip on said bridge
20:14 < cu_cucambur> for the container I'm using lxc so just pointed in the config that we're gonna be using that bridge
20:14 < cu_cucambur> mawk, then added default routes 192.168.1.1 as gateway
20:15 < cu_cucambur> before that I added the route 192.168.1.0/24 to routed via br0
20:15 < Psi-Jack> Mmmm... open-vswitch is powerful.
20:15 < oehansen> quid agis amicas, Bjarne nomen meum
20:16 < Psi-Jack> oehansen: wut?
20:17 < cu_cucambur> Psi-Jack, I'm trying to not add for the complexity. I'm barely handling linux bridges
20:17 < Psi-Jack> hehe
20:18 < cu_cucambur> Psi-Jack, laughing at my misery? :(
20:19 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm... Yes, for now. :)
20:19 < ayecee> well you know, tragedy plus distance is comedy
20:19 < oleo> ok then
20:19  * oleo laughs along
20:19  * oleo notes "this film is awesome"
20:20 < pankaj_> It may be not the place of questioning this question but I wanted to install ubuntu on virtualbox. At most of times I got the idea of server virtualisation and its uses but this desktop virtualisation and its uses as well how it is different then desktop virtualisation is not fitting in my mind.
20:20 < jim> yeah, not too sure about this :P
20:20 < oleo> the router shaman drumming
20:20 < jim> yeah, not too sure about this :P
20:20 < oleo> lol
20:20 < ayecee> very unsure
20:21 < Some1NamedNate> Need help
20:21 < ozymandias> with?
20:22 < ayecee> getting help
20:22 < mckendricks> Anybody know why calling mt status would load a tape? It's not supposed to I think.
20:22 < ayecee> mckendricks: what should it do instead?
20:22 < Some1NamedNate> Say I just compiled the latest version of gnu nano
20:22 < Some1NamedNate> I wanna run it without installing it
20:22 < ayecee> I just compiled the latest version of gnu nano
20:22 < mawk> cu_cucambur: if you gave the host an ip the route you talked about must be present already
20:22 < mawk> where did you add the default route ? on the host too ?
20:22 < ozymandias> Some1NamedNate, then do so
20:23 < mckendricks> ayecee I believe it should just report back immediately without actually doing anything with the tape
20:23 < ozymandias> you dont have to install compiled programs to run them
20:23 < ayecee> i see
20:23 < cu_cucambur> mawk, the vm host. yes
20:23 < Some1NamedNate> I tried ./curl but it said no such file
20:23 < ozymandias> just... run them
20:23 < ozymandias> Some1NamedNate, thats not how you start nano
20:23 < cu_cucambur> mawk, the container can't reach anything except the vm
20:23 < Some1NamedNate> I meant nano sorry
20:23 < mckendricks> I'm not sure if it's a config option or drivers or what. Not sure where to look for those kinds of configs or drivers either.
20:24 < ozymandias> that would run an application named 'curl' that is located in your current directory
20:24 < Some1NamedNate> I tried ./nano
20:24 < cu_cucambur> the vm and container are the same bridge
20:24 < cu_cucambur> on the same*
20:24 < ozymandias> does ./nano exist?
20:24 < Some1NamedNate> Unfortunately not
20:24 < ozymandias> then wtf are you trying to run it for?
20:24 < koala_man> you can only run files that exist
20:24 < ozymandias> try running a nano that exists
20:25 < Some1NamedNate> I wanted to run it from the within the source directory after compilation
20:25 < mawk> who's the router here cu_cucambur ?
20:25 < ozymandias> Some1NamedNate, try running it from where it was compiled
20:26 < ozymandias> you cannot (usually) run source, anyway
20:26 < ozymandias> at least not for compiled languages
20:26 < ozymandias> thats why you compile it
20:26 < ozymandias> just use the path to the binary you want to run
20:26 < Some1NamedNate> Well I compiled uemacs from the git tree
20:27 < mckendricks> ayecee also happens to really hard to search for mt related info on google. Some results and some helpful info, but not particularly easy to find others with the same issues or when they're discussed not always able to find workable solutions
20:27 < Some1NamedNate> I ls'd and saw "em"
20:27 < ozymandias> ok?
20:27 < Some1NamedNate> Which prompted me to use "./em"
20:27 < ozymandias> use the same logic here
20:27 < ayecee> mckendricks: i suppose tape drives are sufficiently rare that there's not much casual discussion on them
20:27 < ozymandias> use ls to find nano, and then run it
20:27 < ozymandias> its no different in principle
20:27 < ayecee> be sure to compile the latest ls first
20:28 < ozymandias> the only difference is likely the location, and specific name
20:28 < ozymandias> ayecee, indeed, yagotta havev the newest ls, emacs and nano
20:30 < Psi-Jack> So, emacsos = OS, nano = mail composer, ls = file manager? What about a text editor? :)
20:31 < ozymandias> cat.
20:31 < cu_cucambur> mawk, What's the router!? I don't get your question
20:31 < ayecee> it's an older joke, sir, but it checks out
20:31 < ozymandias> compile the latest cat
20:32 < cu_cucambur> mawk, The vm and container are connected to a switch the switch is connected a router 192.168.1.1
20:32 < Psi-Jack> And the router is connected to the hip bone? ;)
20:32 < n-iCe> Any softwarw to create lines and save it as .dxf
20:32 < Bronami> How are you guys doing?
20:32 < pankaj_> Hello, Can somebody please explain about desktop virtualisation please. I googled a lot but many of the vague answers in place. I know server virtualisation but how desktop virtualisation is different then it and its advantages.
20:32 < lI1|1Il1> they're not the same thing?
20:32 < Psi-Jack> Virtualization is virtualization.
20:32 < ayecee> pankaj_: vague questions get vague answers.
20:33 < anickname> hey
20:33 < anickname> how do I turn on FTP inside a virtual machine
20:33 < anickname> do I need to install openssh
20:33 < Bronami> I'm on an extremely basic client right now, just testing some irc code. Are my messages getting through?
20:33 < jhaenchen> Bronami: no
20:33 < anickname> yes Bronami
20:34 < koala_man> anickname: is this XY for "how do I get files out of a VM?"
20:34 < Bronami> Thank you
20:34 < ozymandias> anickname, openssh would be used for sftp
20:34 < anickname> it's how to get files into a VM
20:34 < ozymandias> not ftp
20:34 < ozymandias> an ftp server is for ftp
20:34 < anickname> because my VM doesn't support drag and drop
20:34 < anickname> I'm fine with it being sftp lol
20:34 < Li> my linux laptop started to demonstrate little bit of heating, so I went "GOOGLING to satisfy FREENODE TROLLS" and it suggested sudo apt install tlp tlp-rdw, now it's even worse and it's heating like stove.
20:34 < Psi-Jack> anickname: What? heh
20:34 < ozymandias> you could rsync or scp to it
20:34 < Li> WTF
20:34 < twainwek> Bronami: you're breaking up
20:35 < anickname> I'm trying to move files in and out of my virtual machine
20:35 < Li> yes you're troll if you suggest someone to google in 2018
20:35 < anickname> and VirtualBox doesn't support drag and drop
20:35 < ayecee> o_O
20:35 < anickname> for this OS (PuppyLinux)
20:35 < Psi-Jack> anickname: "Drag and Drop?" heh
20:35 < anickname> I mean I think that's the term for it lol
20:35 < ozymandias> you are also a troll if yo ask questions answered by google in 2018 ;-)
20:35 < Psi-Jack> It's... a virtual machine, not a desktop application. :p
20:35 < spreeuw> INSTALL THE EXTENSIONS
20:35 < Bronami> I'm working through a frankensteined unix port for a computer in Minecraft, with an equally terrible client so this is new frontier for me lol
20:35 < spreeuw> IN THE GUEST
20:35 < anickname> whatever the term is for moving files in and out of a virtual machine it isn't working lol
20:35 < ayecee> punt and return
20:36 < ozymandias> anickname, scp? rsync?
20:36 < meyou^> ingress and egress
20:36 < anickname> what are scp and rsync?
20:36 < koala_man> ssh based file copy tools
20:36 < ayecee> file transfer programs
20:36 < ozymandias> anickname, trivial ways to transfer files
20:36 < ozymandias> that usually dont need much configuring to use
20:36 < anickname> ah ok
20:36 < revel> More trivial than tftp? :o
20:37 < anickname> why wouldn't I use something like openssh in this case?
20:37 < ozymandias> revel, doesnt require explicit server config
20:37 < ozymandias> anickname, scp and rsync both do
20:37 < Psi-Jack> scp = openssh, rsync uses scp.
20:37 < Psi-Jack> err, uses openssh. :)
20:37 < anickname> oh ok
20:37 < koala_man> I would google and find something like https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-share-folders-between-guest-and-host-in-virtualbox/ first. then use sshfs or something if that fails
20:38 < anickname> yea so I tried to set up the shared folders
20:38 < anickname> I installed guest additions and everything
20:38 < anickname> but I can't find where the shared folder is on the virtual machine
20:38 < pankaj_> ayecee: Thanks for vague reply again vague user
20:39 < ayecee> pankaj_: my pleasure
20:39 < koala_man> should be wherever you specified when you added a shared dir
20:39 < CrazyTux> can I install 4.15 kernel?
20:39 < ayecee> my guess is no
20:40 < jhaenchen> the shared file is defined in preferences
20:40 < jhaenchen> look there
20:40 < anickname> I have the shared folder defined
20:40 < anickname> it's a machine folder and it's set to auto mount
20:40 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: 8ball says: Try again later. :)
20:40 < anickname> how do I list all of the mounted drives?
20:41 < ozymandias> mount
20:41 < ozymandias> run that
20:41 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, what?
20:41 < mrw0rm> .4
20:41 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: 8ball says: Concentrate and try again.
20:41 < revel> `mount` or `df`
20:42 < anickname> yea it seems like the shared folder isn't getting mou8nted
20:42 < ozymandias> did you add it to fstab? do you have to?
20:42 < CrazyTux> kernel 4.15 is available in MX Package Installer as Spectre and Meltdown patched kernel.
20:42 < revel> Oh, if it's network-mounted, then mount.
20:42 < anickname> I don't think I have to?
20:42 < ozymandias> if its mounting I would expect it to need added to fstab
20:42 < anickname> like I have no idea
20:42 < anickname> I'm just adding the shared folder
20:42 < anickname> and I'm expecting it to pop up somewhere lol
20:43 < ozymandias> li cpu usage up? fans clogged? what's generating the heat? gpu?
20:43 < jhaenchen> vbox should take care of that stuff for the shared folder
20:44 < flying_sausages> hey guys slight confusion and embarassement, but if I add a user to a group, a folder is owned by the group, and the perms on the folder are g+w, I should be able to touch a file inside the folder right
20:44 < ayecee> flying_sausages: yes
20:44 < Psi-Jack> flying_sausages: s/folder/directory/gc
20:45 < ayecee> flying_sausages: run "id" to verify you're part of the group
20:45 < CrazyTux> stable: 	4.15.18 [EOL]   What does this mean?
20:45 < flying_sausages> I am indeed
20:45 < juliang> Hello. The desktop interface stopped working and I can't kill it from the virtual terminal. I'm using Gnome with latest Debian stable, and I've tried gdm stop without success. Any suggestions are appreciated
20:45 < dgurney> CrazyTux, that it has reached it's end of life
20:45 < Psi-Jack> CrazyTux: 8ball says: It is decidedly so.
20:45 < dgurney> don't expect more 4.15 updates
20:45 < ayecee> i want to believe you have an actual 8ball there
20:46 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: I do. :)
20:46 < ayecee> \o/
20:46 < CrazyTux> ok. So which other kernel is Spectre and Meltdown patched?
20:46 < twainwek> juliang: try control+alt+backspace
20:46 < Psi-Jack> I think the 8ball, by proxy, isn't working so well. :)
20:46 < CrazyTux> please bear with my silly questions. I am just a non technical end user and a beginner in linux.
20:46 < dgurney> why are you worrying about it anyway
20:47 < dgurney> any reputable distro maker has done it for you
20:47 < Psi-Jack> A newbie, using a very less popular distro, and wanting support for it that is always going to be behind.
20:47 < flying_sausages> Can anyone please help me spot what I'm doing wrong? http://i.imgur.com/iFSNYbi.png
20:47 < flying_sausages> I can't believe I'm stuck on something so basica
20:47 < juliang> twainwek: done, didn't work
20:47 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: He's using the infamous "MX Linux"
20:48 < CrazyTux> Psi-Jack, Infamous? why?
20:48 < ayecee> wtf is mx linux
20:48 < dgurney> I've heard of it actually, but know nothing about it lol
20:48 < SpeakerToMeat> DO you know anything lime metamorphose but that can copy appart from renaming?
20:48 < jhaenchen> time to spam sudo
20:48 < CrazyTux> dgurney, suggest a reputable distro.
20:48 < ayecee> flying_sausages: does "touch tv/test" give you the same error?
20:48 < dgurney> the usual names, I'm sure you've heard of them
20:48 < flying_sausages> as in cd in there first ayecee
20:48 < jhaenchen> ooboontwo?
20:48 < ayecee> flying_sausages: no
20:49 < ayecee> flying_sausages: as in, from the directory where you took this screenshot
20:49 < CrazyTux> linux Mint?
20:49 < jhaenchen> NOOBS OS
20:49 < ayecee> says the noob
20:49 < lI1|1Il1> your group is sausage? flying_sausages
20:49 < flying_sausages> that's in /home/sausage
20:49 < ayecee> flying_sausages: ah, my bad
20:50 < CrazyTux> guys, you suggest that I replace MX linux with some other popular distro?
20:50 < jhaenchen> it's an actual os tho ayecee
20:50 < flying_sausages> lI1|1Il1: my primary yes, but additionally I'm in other groups
20:50 < lI1|1Il1> but the process GID is sausage?
20:50 < flying_sausages> uh I think I'm missing some fundamental idea
20:50 < mckendricks> Is there a place where all firmware .frm are stored?
20:50 < Artemis3> mxlinux is meh. its antix/mepis hybrid thing
20:51 < lI1|1Il1> chgrp ?
20:51 < ayecee> flying_sausages: doesn't seem like it. this should normally work, the way you're doing it.
20:51 < flying_sausages> i know right, I am confused af
20:51 < twainwek> juliang: so what do you want to do right now
20:51 < flying_sausages> running ubuntu 16.04
20:52 < lI1|1Il1> do you need acl for multiple groups to work?
20:52 < ayecee> *shrug* have you tried turning it off and on again?
20:52 < ayecee> lI1|1Il1: yes
20:52 < juliang> twainwek: nothing, I had to restart haha. But I'd be interesting to find out what's going on
20:52 < twainwek> juliang: it's gnome3, it's part of it's feature
20:52 < twainwek> its*
20:52 < juliang> It'd be
20:53 < triceratux> CrazyTux: only 4.16 is fully patched for spectre / meltdown http://news.softpedia.com/news/linux-kernel-4-15-reached-end-of-life-users-urged-to-move-to-linux-4-16-now-520787.shtml thats why i fixed the networking in LXQtExTiX http://www.extix.se/?p=393
20:53 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok. Then, how can install 4.16 on MX 17?
20:54 < juliang> twainwek: my guess is as good as yours
20:54 < dgurney> wait for the distro maintainers to do their thing
20:54 < dgurney> it's not like you're in a hurry
20:54 < triceratux> CrazyTux: that depends on if they package it in the repo or expect you to compile it yourself
20:55 < CrazyTux> 4.14 and 4.15 are available in MX Package installer. I just installed 4.15.
20:55 < juliang> twainwek: I'll try smashing the screen 3 times, maybe that works, maybe not
20:56 < hio> I believe that fuchsia will defeat Linux
20:56 < dgurney> it would seem like 4.15.14 is the latest available kernel on MX
20:56 < twainwek> juliang: i had freezing issues due to an unstable nvidia driver on a non-gnome3 machine
20:56 < dgurney> eh, you'll be fine with that, provided the MX guys don't lag behind for too long
20:57 < juliang> twainwek: I have an nvidia card, this happens when I go to the "applications" menu
20:58 < twainwek> juliang: nvidia prop driver?
20:58 < juliang> twainwek: and I'm on vmware
20:58 < lI1|1Il1> hio: i doubt it, unless they make it highly portable
20:58 < juliang> No
20:59 < lI1|1Il1> their microcolonol  only supports on x86_64 i think
21:03 < MrElendig> considering the use base and development invested in linux, HAHAHAHAHAHA
21:04 < CrazyTux> dgurney, would it be better if I switch to some other popular and widely supported distro?
21:05 < dgurney> if you want to
21:11 < lopid> lol https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/common-mistakes-slow-down-pc/
21:12 < revel> >rebooting fixes memory leaks
21:12 < revel> lol
21:13 < ayecee> getting shot in the face fixes terminal diseases
21:13 < Psi-Jack> Just download more ram!
21:13 < revel> The way Windows used to cr*p out after a day or two, I'm guessing it wasn't all that "freeware", it was Windows itself...
21:13 < lopid> i just thought the list of things in the beginning of it was funny. as if somehow one's ram starts to run low…
21:13 < ayecee> might have been the user
21:14 < revel> "6. Confusing Your Computer With the Internet"
21:14 < revel> lol
21:16 < triceratux> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/lenovo-best-laptop-brand,36927.html
21:16 < jhaenchen> It's always amazed me there aren't simple health checks on that stuff, like alerting you that your RAM usage is getting high enough to impact perf. Basically they should set acceptable thresholds (does it slow down the UI?) and alert you when it happens
21:17 < RayTracer> and then you do what? close programs? just do that if it gets slow. or wait till oom killer hits and "solves" it for you
21:17 < qman> telling people to defrag in 2018, with no considerations for SSDs
21:19 < nszceta> delete system32
21:19 < nszceta> for maximum performance
21:19 < RayTracer> turn off the computer for optimal use
21:20 < Artemis3> qman, its a trap
21:22 < Artemis3> revel, Windows ME would infamously BSOD after 5 hours, due to an IE5 memory leak, which was on by default (active desktop).
21:22 < revel> You mean Windows explorer or internet explorer?
21:23 < qman> Artemis3: that's only if you could make it 5 hours without blue screening first
21:23 < qman> usually it lasted about 20 minutes
21:23 < Artemis3> qman, indeed, that was just booting it ant not touching it :3
21:24 < meyou^> was ME the one that BSOD'd during Bill's presentation
21:24 < Artemis3> revel, by then they already replaced explorer.exe with iexplorer.exe, tho it was still there.
21:25 < ayecee> so how about that linux
21:25 < qman> yeah, at that time windows explorer was internet explorer, just looking at files instead of websites
21:25 < revel> So, same explorer then.
21:27 < jhaenchen> those were the good ol days
21:29 < triceratux> whats great about systemd is it provides for the means to circumvent its own dns resolver. you just have to know enough about it to configure it properly or choose a distro which does that for you
21:30 < revel> Or not use it.
21:30 < phogg> circumventing a DNS resolver is easy: dig @wherever example.co
21:30 < phogg> just replace 'wherever' with the resolver you want to use
21:31 < revel> That won't make everything use it :P
21:41 < paradis> is there a way to check the integrity of linux
21:42 < revel> Define "integrity"
21:45 < lI1|1Il1> checking kernel sigs after download?
21:45 < stevendale> o/
21:45 < Psi-Jack> integrity. 1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : incorruptibility. 2 : an unimpaired condition : soundness. 3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided : completeness.
21:46 < revel> Psi-Jack: Yeah, but, for the kernel (somehow?) or the filesystem or what?
21:46 < Psi-Jack> :)
21:46 < Psi-Jack> I just defined integrity. :)
21:46 < kazdax> okay so everyting resides under /
21:46 < revel> Thanks, smartass.
21:46 < kazdax> is the / meaning root ?
21:46 < dgurney> well, checksums are the most simple way of doing it
21:46 < revel> kazdax: Yes.
21:46 < ozymandias> assuming they exist
21:46 < RayTracer> paradis: on a rpm based distro, eg. rpm -Va
21:46 < kazdax> then why do i have a folder called root within / ?
21:46 < stevendale> In Windows C: is /
21:47 < Psi-Jack> paradis: More so, can you explain what you're really trying to do?
21:47 < kazdax>  okay
21:47 < RayTracer> kazdax: that's root's home
21:47 < revel> kazdax: Because that's the root user's home directory.
21:47 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: In Windows, there is no /
21:47 < Psi-Jack> Not even an equivalent.
21:47 < kazdax> i see
21:47 < ozymandias> kazdax, roots' homerid
21:47 < revel> Psi-Jack: There's some pseudo-/ that contains all the letter roots like C: and D: and whatever and network mounts, I think.
21:47 < CrazyTux> is Manjaro better than MX Linux?
21:47 < Psi-Jack> revel: Nope.
21:48 < kazdax> and the home of everything else is within /home which is under / ?
21:48 < kazdax> every other user i mean
21:48 < Psi-Jack> You can define any drive with any drive letter you want, in Windows. You could boot D: while not even having a C:
21:48 < revel> kazdax: That's where the homes of regular user accounts reside.
21:48 < ozymandias> kazdax, all non-system users that use the default homedirs, yes
21:48 < triceratux> kazdax: root means 3 things in linux. the root filesystem which is /, the root account which is the most privileged, & the root accounts home directory which isnt in ${HOME} but is rather /root
21:48 < kazdax> i see
21:48 < Psi-Jack> You can junction "mount" a filesystem directly into a subdirectory on D:\somewhere
21:49 < kazdax> okay i think i got it
21:49 < revel> triceratux: If you're root, then HOME is /root :|
21:49 < triceratux> oops i meant isnt in /home of course
21:50 < revel> Psi-Jack: Where do network mounts reside on Windows then?
21:50 < ozymandias> the letter you put them
21:51 < revel> I recall some sort of different root that contains all the letter drives as well as some other stuff like network stuff.
21:51 < kazdax> [root@rhelserver ~]# tar xvf test.tgz -C ~/
21:51 < revel> And the network is at \netfs\ or something
21:51 < ozymandias> revel, sounds like cygdrive
21:51 < kazdax> should that not post test folder extracted content into current directory ?
21:52 < ozymandias> kazdax, that will extract that tarball into ~/, where you told it to
21:52 < Psi-Jack> revel: Nope. Not Windows.
21:53 < revel> Psi-Jack: Network mounts have to be somewhere on letter drives?
21:53 < Psi-Jack> Or junctioned onto another directory, yes.
21:53 < kazdax> what command do i use to extract it in that drive ?
21:53 < kazdax> in the current drive its in
21:53 < RayTracer> just omit the -C option
21:53 < ozymandias> kazdax, dont specify a different location
21:53 < revel> kazdax: That's what it does by default, isn't it?
21:53 < kazdax> ahhh
21:54 < revel> Without you specifying a directory.
21:55 < kazdax> even if i do this
21:55 < kazdax> [root@rhelserver ~]# tar xvf test.tgz
21:55 < kazdax> it dosnt create a folder called test with the content of the extracted stuff
21:55 < ozymandias> kazdax, that will unpack the contents tot he current dir
21:55 < ozymandias> is there a test dir in the tarbal?
21:56 < ozymandias> it sounds like there is not
21:56 < kazdax> no there is not
21:56 < ozymandias> then no, it will not create it
21:56 < ozymandias> it unpacks the tarball
21:56 < ozymandias> as is
21:56 < RayTracer> I'd use "tar xvzf test.tgz", but maybe it autodetects the compression format in the meanwhile
21:56 < ozymandias> if it was in the tarball, it would create it
21:57 < kazdax> but okay the author is in this / directory
21:57 < kazdax> and he does
21:57 < revel> Yeah, if the tarball doesn't have a "test" directory containing everything else, it'll just unpack everything in it to your directory.
21:57 < revel> RayTracer: It does.
21:57 < kazdax> tar xvf test.tgz -C /
21:57 < kazdax> and it works for him
21:57 < ozymandias> kazdax, what author?
21:57 < koala_man> kazdax: is this a slackware package or something?
21:57 < kazdax> no i am just following a tutorial from pearson IT on RHEL
21:57 < ozymandias> perhaps his tarball has a test dir in it
21:58 < kazdax> i am confused
21:58 < Dagmar> If it did it would create /test
21:58 < koala_man> kazdax: did you download this test.tgz from the same source, or did you create it?
21:58 < kazdax> i created it
21:58 < ozymandias> the tarball you are unpackign does not have the directory 'test' in it
21:58 < kazdax> its nothing but the /etc folden
21:58 < kazdax> okay this is what idid
21:58 < ozymandias> then why the hell would it have a dir called 'test' in it?
21:59 < Dagmar> OKay so then using -C / is probably fine
21:59 < kazdax> i copied everything starting with a e i into a folder called test
21:59 < ozymandias> that seems like a terrible guide,. btw
21:59 < kazdax> i tarballed it into test.tgz
21:59 < kazdax> now i want to unpack it
21:59 < ozymandias> kazdax, tar xvfz test.tgz
21:59 < RayTracer> I wouldn't suggest to experiment with /etc when trying out tar usage :)
21:59 < ozymandias> that will unpack it to the current dir
22:00 < koala_man> kazdax: it's up to the person creating the tgz to ensure that it's created with the conventional single top level directory. sounds like you didn't (by running the commands from the wrong directory for example)
22:00 < ozymandias> and there will be no dir called 'test' because 'test' starts with a t, and not an e
22:00 < ziddey> is there a way to explicitly connect to only a specified bssid? I'm specifying the bssid in wpa_supplicant.conf, but it's still eventually roaming onto a different ap with the same ssid
22:00 < ozymandias> you did not put 'test/' in it, so when you unpack it, no 'test/' will come out
22:00 < kazdax> no ..hold on a sec
22:01 < kazdax> i think i am goin to use a book instead to learn
22:01 < kazdax> okay
22:01 < ozymandias> tar does not automatically create random dirs
22:01 < xamithan> books have errors,  read the errata
22:01 < kazdax> i never really liked TV tutorials
22:01 < ozymandias> read The Linux Command Line, free book, gets updates
22:02 < stevendale> o/
22:02 < stevendale> Did anybody else get computer access taken away when they were a kid
22:03 < ozymandias> every kid that had access to a computer should have that at some point
22:03 < kazdax> i am not going to give up
22:03 < kazdax> i will try this again
22:03 < xamithan> No,  how else would you do school work or home work
22:03 < kazdax> okay so let me explain what i did ..and i will do it again just to make sure i am doing it right
22:03 < kazdax> i created a folder called test on ~
22:03 < easy_ref123> cifs 786432 0 - Live 0x000000000000000
22:03 < ozymandias> kazdax, mkdir test; touch test/foo; tar cvfz test2.tar.gz test
22:04 < easy_ref123> can somebody explain that line?
22:04 < stevendale> ozymandias: Now I am on computer almost the whole time, I agree.. teenagers have greatly worsened moods when they am on computer too long
22:04 < easy_ref123> "0 instances" yet the state is live?
22:04 < easy_ref123> (from /proc/modules)
22:04 < stevendale> I used to answer back whenever I was asked to do something, I'd never do any homework or anything, just games & texting
22:05 < ozymandias> stevendale, screentime in general ought to be regulated, same as any other excessive thing
22:05 < ozymandias> even reading needs to be limited, if it becomes excessive
22:05 < stevendale> Now I go for walks outside, and that 5 minutes off screen every half an hour really helps ozymandias
22:05 < xamithan> limiting reading?  ...
22:05 < kazdax> no okay one more thing
22:05 < ozymandias> xamithan, if it becomes excessive.
22:05 < kazdax> i was told
22:05 < kazdax> that my rm ir
22:05 < kazdax> rm command
22:06 < kazdax> has an alias
22:06 < kazdax> rm -i
22:06 < ozymandias> xamithan, as in, not getting homework done, or enough sleep
22:06 < kazdax> thats why it keeps asking me if i want to delete every file
22:06 < xamithan> What is excessive?  If you work on a computer you are reading like 15 hours a day
22:06 < kazdax> in the folder to remove anygthing
22:06 < kazdax> do i just do
22:06 < kazdax> rm -rf ?
22:06 < RayTracer> easy_ref123: the module is loaded mut not used. The use count should increase if you mount a cifs
22:06 < ozymandias> xamithan, we were explicitly talking about children
22:06 < RayTracer> *but
22:06 < kazdax> okay got it
22:06 < kazdax> its rm -rf
22:06 < ozymandias> kazdax, no, you have to specify waht to delete
22:07 < kazdax> i know i meant
22:07 < kazdax> rm -rf folderNAme
22:07 < ozymandias> ok
22:07 < kazdax> because when i do rm -r
22:07 < stevendale> Sleep is important to, especially for gamers, my actions per minute goes significantly up if I've had a solid 8 hours per sleep, whereas I'll be worrying half the time about keeping my eyes open and feet still on 4 or 6 hours
22:07 < kazdax> rm -r foldername
22:07 < xamithan> The school I went to the children were only like 80% literate
22:07 < kazdax> it ask if i need to delete every single file in the folder
22:07 < xamithan> I think they need more reading not less
22:07 < kazdax> like for each file it spits out a yes or no option
22:07 < kazdax> which was getting irritating
22:08 < stevendale> I say governments should cut the funding in school that goes towards digital technology
22:08 < ozymandias> xamithan, but some kids would stay up to 3am reading, and then be in a daze at school -- in that case, limit the reading.
22:08 < stevendale> Go back to textbooks
22:08 < ozymandias> xamithan, sorry to hear about that third world though
22:08 < RayTracer> kazdax: you could eg. "unalias rm" or remove that alias from .bashrc if it hinders you (the latter is the first thing I do on new installed redhat systems)
22:08 < xamithan> Nah,  they'll learn some personal responsiblity after a few nights of that
22:08 < ozymandias> xamithan, have you... met a child before?
22:08 < ozymandias> because thats not going to happen
22:08 < stevendale> The longest I lost computer access was a month ozymandias
22:08 < xamithan> How old we talking about here?  4 ?
22:09 < ozymandias> they will happily daze through school if that means more fun times
22:09 < ayecee> not only have i met one, i used to be one!
22:09 < stevendale> I held a pocket knife up at somebody in grade 7 primary school
22:09 < xamithan> There is no reason a 10 or 12 year old can't decide actions for theirself
22:09 < ozymandias> LOL
22:09 < ozymandias> some actions, yes
22:09 < ozymandias> some actions should be guided
22:09 < jml2> xamithan, are you in prison?
22:09 < ozymandias> especially when they repeatedly make the wrong ones
22:09 < xamithan> No I'm at work
22:10 < jml2> was just wondering, you sound like a lunatic
22:10 < stevendale> Decision making skills don't come for girls until they're 14 or 15, and males it can be between 16 and 25
22:10 < ayecee> and sometimes never
22:10 < ozymandias> i dont know many 12 or 14 year olds even that are able to make mature decisions about EVERYTHING they could be deciding
22:10 < xamithan> Well I don't expect a 12 year old to be making decisions like buying a house or something.  But they can fix their own food, control their own schedule
22:10 < koala_man> because "decision making skills" is one checkbox that applies to everything from choice of breakfast to getting a mortgage
22:10 < ozymandias> i could easily see a 14 year old skipping school to play video games if allowed
22:11 < ozymandias> xamithan, you may wish to mean real 12 year olds some time
22:11 < stevendale> A good way to develop those skills as a kid is to save pocket money then buy a Minecraft server, set up the plugins & try to get people on
22:11 < ozymandias> many would decide to skip school if allowed
22:11 < stevendale> Being in that 'administrative' role really helps kids learn
22:11 < xamithan> Nah,  then they'd get punished
22:11 < ozymandias> it is the parents job to guide the decisions in the right direction
22:11 < ozymandias> YES
22:12 < twainwek> how'd i end up in a parenting channel
22:12 < ozymandias> THATS EXACTLY THE POINT
22:12 < stevendale> twainwek: I started it o/
22:12 < xamithan> Thats how you learn,  am i wrong ?
22:12 < ozymandias> you dont let them make random, arbitrary decisions, you guide them and limit their options
22:12 < ozymandias> thats exactly what I have been saying xamithan
22:12 < jml2> ozymandias, I think is xamithan's grand daddy
22:12 < ozymandias> you provide them limits and let them learn inside those limits
22:12 < xamithan> Nah you sound like a helicoptor parent controlling everything and wiping kids noses for them
22:13 < ozymandias> .....
22:13 < ozymandias> you are not even being self consistent now.
22:13 < stevendale> I know I'm a visual learner, my parents could tell me to do something for the first time - it wouldn't get done, if they held my hand the first one or two times and walked me through it i'd remember it and do it independently forever
22:13 < ayecee> offtopic conversation is now getting heated.
22:13 < jml2> ozymandias, you're irrelevant XD
22:13 < ayecee> bad combination.
22:13 < kazdax> this is odd but on the tutors computer when he does ls on ~..it displays the root contents of his drive
22:13 < kazdax> when he does ls oin /
22:13 < ozymandias> ayecee, eh, he is trolling too hard
22:14 < kazdax> it shows the same thing
22:14 < kazdax> i guess the guy dint record it properly or something
22:14 < ayecee> kazdax: what should it show instead
22:14 < kazdax> hmm
22:14 < ozymandias> kazdax, thats not odd, thats expected
22:14 < kazdax> ls
22:14 < orev> anyone know of an easy way to remount all filesystems from /fstab?  like mount -a -o remount (<-- that doesn't actually do it)
22:14 < ayecee> ls: not found
22:15 < kazdax> :)
22:15 < kazdax> okay ...maybe he created those similer folders in his ~ roots home directory ?
22:15 < ayecee> kazdax: more likely his ~ is set to /
22:15 < kazdax> the folders that exist on / <-- root
22:15 < RayTracer> or maybe he export HOME=/
22:15 < kazdax> ahh see
22:15 < kazdax> the author isnt letting us know about that
22:15 < kazdax> or maybe he did and i missed it
22:16 < xamithan> orev: I think you'd need a script that'll get the mount ports and do the -o remount on it.  it should be pretty easy
22:16 < ayecee> doesn't seem like an important detail
22:16 < ozymandias> kazdax, if he is running as root, ~=  /root
22:16 < kazdax> yes
22:16 < ozymandias> the parent, or .. of /root is /
22:16 < RayTracer> whatever wonky things people do to get their video interesting..
22:16 < ozymandias> /root/.. is /
22:16 < ayecee> ozymandias: not always the case
22:16 < easy_ref123> RayTracer, thanks :)
22:16 < jml2> pee double u dee == pwd
22:16 < ozymandias> ayecee, it a RHEL guide
22:17 < ozymandias> so we can make some assumptions
22:17 < orev> xamithan: it would need to honor "noauto" options, etc.. so not easy I guess
22:17 < ayecee> ah, missed that part
22:17 < ozymandias> ayecee, busy channel :-D
22:17 < ayecee> also working
22:17 < kazdax> iam just going to go with the tutorials and work my way throught it
22:18 < kazdax> or should i just read a book instead ?
22:18  * jml2 remounted but then farted and corrupted all his filesystems.\
22:18 < kazdax> should i try reading some good book on linux basics a
22:18 < kazdax> nd then maybe come back to the video tutorial
22:18 < ozymandias> read The Linuz Command Line, go at your own pace, kazdax
22:18 < kazdax> k
22:20 < xamithan> Just as easy you can include those in the script.  Just have to find the right cut command to pull it
22:21 < jml2> using a cron task for remount with mount is not a smart work around for crappy hardware  XD
22:22 < jim> how can I find which interface has the default route, using ip and friends (not ifconfig & friends)?
22:23 < lopid> "route"
22:23 < ayecee> ip route print, or something like that
22:23 < jml2> jim, "ip route"
22:24 < sembiance> wtf does the term "ricer" mean in regards to calling someone that based on what particular linux distro they use?
22:24 < pepermuntjes> everybody reading this will be dead within the next 100 years.
22:24 < jml2> jim, not well explained, is there are manpages for "ip-route", "ip-address" -- use the hypen to get to the manpage
22:24 < lopid> they consider their choice non-standard?
22:25 < xamithan> Go read it up on urbandictionary
22:26 < Frith> pepermuntjes: That directly goes against my immortality objective.
22:26 < stevendale> o/
22:26 < ozymandias> i can make a guess based on what it means for cars -- crappy flashy cars (typically, but not always, for asia) that have lots of cheap eye candy bolted on
22:26 < stevendale> 7200 RPM HDD or bust
22:27 < ayecee> ozymandias: kind of, but it's more about the owners of said cars
22:27 < ayecee> ozymandias: the people who bolt on that cheap eye candy
22:27 < xamithan> The only thing that carries over from a car ricer is the making unnecessary modifications that they think are cool but most others do not
22:28 < ayecee> also unsupportable performance claims
22:28 < xamithan> My laptop runs faster with a lightning bolt decal on it
22:28 < ozymandias> ayecee, the kind of person that will spend $2000 to a $10,000 car to reduce its resale value by $4,000 :-D
22:28 < ayecee> heh
22:29 < xamithan> I wanted to add flames too.  But people might get confused and think it is on fire then throw water.  I wouldn't want a dead laptop
22:29 < ayecee> smart
22:29 < pepermuntjes> Frith, replace it with an immorality  objective
22:30 < ozymandias> pepermuntjes, I dont want to convert to Catholocism, Is there any other way?
22:42 < Dagmar> You can have it shipped to that company that'll dip it in the hydrophobic stuff
22:42 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: RPM? 0 RPM is always better.
22:43 < stevendale> You mean an SSD Psi-Jack? :P
22:43 < qman> sembiance: http://funroll-loops.teurasporsaat.org/
22:44 < Psi-Jack> Yes. SSD. With built-in wear leveling and reasonable auto-trim. :)
22:44 < Dagmar> The /var directory is not a good place
22:44 < Dagmar> @#$@#$ wrong channel
22:45 < stevendale> HDDs don't need wear levelling :3
22:46 < Psi-Jack> Well, they could benefit a little from it.
22:47 < xamithan> They could benefit from not spinning
22:47 < Psi-Jack> I mean, when bad sectors form along the location of the static journal area on the disk. that can cause some fun problems.
22:48 < Dagmar> Then there'd be all that wear just on one side
22:48 < Dagmar> It's the spinning around that keeps them even
22:48 < peoliye> cat screen /dev/tty.xyz 2>&1 | tee ~/outputfile.txt  ---this is not outputting the data in outputfile.txt
22:48 < RayTracer> maybe balance the 0s and the 1s now and then
22:48 < peoliye> can someone give me a clue? I am running on mac
22:49 < Psi-Jack> peoliye: We don't support macOS here.
22:49 < ozymandias> this is #linux, not #osx
22:49 < stevendale> Actually
22:49 < stevendale> the os x channel is ##mac
22:49 < stevendale> Not #osx
22:49 < Dagmar> peoliye: If you check the man page for screen, you can make it write to a log file on its own.
22:49 < Psi-Jack> There's a few macOS related channels. :p
22:49 < xamithan> osx is dead
22:49 < ozymandias> stevendale, doesnt that violate apples precious branding?
22:50 < ozymandias> xamithan, yeah, but the irc channel might not be
22:50 < ozymandias> at some point apple will realize it
22:50 < ozymandias> but until then, they will keep selling it
22:50 < ananke> the channel is #macosx or ##macosx.
22:51 < xamithan> OSXI, OSXII.  Nah it isn't catchy
22:51 < ozymandias> xamithan, thats why they kept OSX for like 23 versions
22:51 < Psi-Jack> ananke: Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
22:51 < ayecee> xamithan: "oh sexy"
22:51 < ayecee> i think it would be catchy
22:52 < xamithan> It should relate to apples more though, ya know?  Maybe make a golden deliciousX OS
22:53 < _stuart> catchy like gonorrhoea
22:53 < ozymandias> OS Kallisti X ?
22:53 < xamithan> RingOS
22:53 < Dagmar> Get all of Asia on board with Durian OS
22:53 < xamithan> For ringo
22:53 < Dagmar> "We swear it doesn't stink!"
22:53 < _stuart> lol
22:53 < deepfreez> Hello, anyone use ip blacklisted check php or python to check ips ?
22:53 < _stuart> yeah it deos.
22:54 < deepfreez> I need for a lot of classes...
22:54 < ozymandias> the mythical golden apple was labelled 'kallisti' ;-)
22:54 < xamithan> "check ips"  ?
22:54 < Psi-Jack> deepfreez: #php #python
22:54 < stevendale>   Win 7 SP1 Ultimate x64 almost downloaded...
22:54 < lI1|1Il1> woaaahh
22:54 < deepfreez> thanks
22:54 < xamithan> I think you in the wrong place steven
22:55 < MrElendig> why would you ever use 7 over 10 too....
22:55 < ozymandias> MrElendig, its slightly less irritating?
22:55 < xamithan> Maybe they hate cortana with a passion and telemetry
22:55 < stevendale> Nah I'm not xamithan: Ubuntu 17.10 \n \l
22:55 < _stuart> because 7 is stable and 10 is a shitshow.
22:56 < pepermuntjes> lol
22:56 < xamithan> I still use WinXP
22:56 < stevendale> MrElendig: No forced updates, superior drivers as you aren't forced to use M$oft's ones, no major feature changes, only security updates and bug fixes
22:56 < xamithan> It gets updates too
22:56 < stevendale> I use XP, but I am upgrading to 7 now
22:56 < xamithan> They are stopping that next year I think.  When the windows embedded updates end
22:57 < stevendale> Yeah 2019 is the cutoff for POSready 2009 xamithan
22:57 < lI1|1Il1> stevendale: are you steven dale, or steve'n'dale ?
22:57 < xamithan> I'll upgrade to vista then
22:57 < MrElendig> stevendale: forced updates are a good thing, and no you don't have to use microsoft drivers
22:57 < ozymandias> MrElendig, no they are not.
22:57 < _stuart> MrElen: no it's not.
22:57 < xamithan> No,  no they aren't
22:57 < ozymandias> forced updates CAN be a good thing.
22:57 < MrElendig> they are
22:58 < ozymandias> no, they are not.
22:58 < MrElendig> and if you don't want them: don't use home edition
22:58 < stevendale> They can be, but they're not
22:58 < _stuart> MrElen: business can't function computers that break every tuesday. (and they do)
22:58 < ozymandias> rebooting a machine that is in use without warning is not a good thing.
22:58 < pepermuntjes> Microsoft Professional 10 had advertisements for CANDY CRUSH.
22:58  * Psi-Jack forces updates into ozymandias's brain.
22:58 < xamithan> I got pro edition,  it still forces
22:58 < Psi-Jack> ozymandias: You don't have to reboot, necessarily.
22:58 < stevendale> Yeah pepermuntjes is right
22:58 < stevendale> 10 installed Candy crush without my permission
22:58 < MrElendig> _stuart: enteprise version lets you run your own updates
22:58 < _stuart> thing reboots on you, you cna't stop it ;)
22:58 < stevendale> And Facebook
22:58 < MrElendig> _stuart: at your own leisure
22:58 < ozymandias> Psi-Jack, you do when it does it in the middle of the night and decides its time to reboot
22:58  * Psi-Jack force reboots ozymandias for good measure though .
22:59 < Psi-Jack> ozymandias: Wait, we're not talking about Linux, now are we?
22:59 < stevendale> Ubuntu downloads updates without my permission
22:59 < ozymandias> Psi-Jack, naw, linux doesnt force update -- or at least no distro I would ever use
22:59 < xamithan> ubuntu doesn't reboot on you though,  that is the difference
22:59 < pepermuntjes> ubuntu has nasty amazon logo
22:59 < Psi-Jack> Well, then. Lets get back onto the proper subjectmatter at hand then. Linux. :)
23:00 < Psi-Jack> pepermuntjes: 10 years ago.
23:00 < Psi-Jack> :p
23:00 < pepermuntjes> just use CentOs 7, never had any advertising shown
23:00 < pepermuntjes> tell me one thing i can't do with centos7
23:00 < stevendale> Isn't CentOS 7 bundled with libraries older than Debian 6?
23:00 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: Nop
23:00 < MrElendig> some older some newer
23:01 < Psi-Jack> Compared to Deb 6, all newer.
23:01 < pepermuntjes> for me a game changer, was RPMFUSION support for Centos. Before that i had to use Fedora.
23:01 < pepermuntjes> but now with RPMFUSION for centos, you get VLC, media codecs, and all that stuff
23:01 < stevendale> Long live Crunchbang
23:02 < Psi-Jack> Crunchbang is dead.
23:02 < pepermuntjes> only extra repo's you need now are: rpmfusion and epel. Both are very save, and share devs from main.
23:05 < pepermuntjes> i'm thinking about stopping to use mobile devices
23:05 < xamithan> ArchBang
23:06 < pepermuntjes> ArchBangBros
23:06 < xamithan> I've never used it but was looking for something similar to crunchbang one day
23:06 < Psi-Jack> ArchBangBus?
23:06 < stevendale> pepermuntjes: I've tried
23:07 < stevendale> Closest I get is using phone as hotspot when I am out
23:14 < pepermuntjes> because with cellphone
23:15 < pepermuntjes> the gov can follow you everystep
23:15 < pepermuntjes> *
23:15 < pepermuntjes> will follow you with
23:15 < _stuart> gov is clueless... facebook can follow you tho
23:15 < pepermuntjes> don't have facebook
23:15 < lI1|1Il1> they can still follow you ;)
23:15 < _stuart> lol facebook will follow you anyway ;)
23:16 < pepermuntjes> savest would be to refuse any contact in any form with any people that use facebook
23:16 < lI1|1Il1> only drug dealers need pagers and cel phones!
23:16 < _stuart> good luck with that
23:17 < _stuart> you'de end up out of work and on the street from not showing up at work or paying bills
23:17 < _stuart> .. and the homeless guys are on facebook too
23:17 < pepermuntjes> but in 100 years you get a statue
23:17 < pepermuntjes> and people will name their baby's after you
23:17 < _stuart> last hold out, would not join facebook
23:17 < _stuart> lol
23:17 < Dagmar> Who the hell still uses pages?
23:17 < Dagmar> er pagers?
23:18 < _stuart> dr's I think
23:18 < lI1|1Il1> literally drug dealers
23:18 < Dagmar> _Bad_ drug dealers, maybe
23:18 < _stuart> cheap drug dealers
23:18 < Dagmar> All the doctors I've seen use smartphones now
23:19 < pepermuntjes> Dagmar, they make foto's of your xrays with them, and share them using whatsapp with other doctors :)
23:19 < pepermuntjes> fact
23:19 < Dagmar> Actually those are generally digitized immediately
23:19 < MrElendig> whatsapp? usually they are snailmailed on floppies
23:19 < _stuart> yeah, digital xray is pretty widespread now
23:20 < MrElendig> or as literal photos
23:20 < _stuart> at least here
23:20 < _stuart> i have a large film xray of my hip
23:20 < TwistedFate> hello, can i use my pc while i'm running badblocks test on a new HDD that's not formatted yet?
23:21 < MrElendig> sure
23:21 < TwistedFate> nice, thanks!
23:37 < Dagmar> It's just going to be a little boggy
23:38 < Frith> And for comparisons: https://gist.github.com/hellerbarde/2843375
23:50 < bindi> I have a malicious linux system that has some process trying to connect a certain IP, how can I find out what that process is?
23:50 < bindi> I've blocked the ip in the FW because it was causing 90% loss so it's not connected anymore
23:55 < uplime> bindi: im not on a system with a /procfs right now, but does /proc/net/tcp have the information you're looking for?
23:56 < bindi> this complicates things, I'm SSH'd in to the box and it says my ip is the firewall box ip (172.16.16.16)
23:57 < Psi-Jack> In Russia, research scientists arrested for running crypto mining software on secret class research super computer. "In Soviet Russia, crypto mines you!"
23:58 < lupine> reasonable arrest
23:59 < TwistedFate> Wonder what are the chances that drive has errors if first pattern is completed without errors with badblocks :S
23:59 < Psi-Jack> Agreed
--- Log closed Sat Apr 21 00:00:52 2018