--- Log opened Thu Apr 26 00:00:58 2018
00:02 < s33r> anyone on a 2700x rn? want to know if it is worth for gentoo
00:06 < terra> s33r : want to compile packages for yourself? so what can beat a 16 core/thread processor? 32 core processor.
00:07 < Brainspackle> gentoo is like the digital version of self mutilation
00:08 < terra> Brainspackle : theri community is impressive. Just look at their ebuilds. Some of them insane!
00:11 < bdonnahue> hey guys, in netstat for foreign address, what does :::* mean?
00:12 < koala_man> bdonnahue: it's the ipv6 equivalent of 0.0.0.0:*
00:13 < bdonnahue> koala_man, thanks, thats what I thought. jsut needed a sanity check b/c something is broken on my box
00:36 < mawk> koala_man: ::
00:36 < mawk> ah sorry I misread
00:37 < mawk> it was suspicious that you asked that
00:37 < jim> is :: a form of ...?
00:38 < mawk> it means 0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000
00:38 < mawk> like 2001:db8::1 means 2001:0db8:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0001
00:39 < mawk> :: means "insert as many zero as necessary for the whole address to be 128 bits"
00:40 < jim> oh ok :)
00:40 < jim> I totally come from an ipv4 standpoint...
00:41 < mawk> it comes with an ambiguity when you want to beautify address with trailing zeroes
00:41 < mawk> or not even trailing zeroes
00:42 < mawk> for instance 2001:db8:0:0:4242:0:1:2
00:42 < mawk> you can write either 2001:db8:0:0:4242::1:2 or 2001:db8::4242:0:1:2
00:42 < mawk> and if the zero intervals are the same size you can't even decide based on the size criterion
00:43 < mawk> maybe using the biggest group from the set of (group size, group offset from the rightmost position) using lexicographical comparison is the most sane thing
00:44 < mawk> group offset from the leftmost position, actually
00:44 < mawk> written rfc style
01:06 < Irbis> WTF? https://i.imgur.com/9NMZ8Vw.png
01:07 < wodencafe> I don't see the problem
01:07 < rascul> Irbis an explanation could be helpful
01:07 < Brainspackle> wtf indeed... all those irc.txt files are most silly
01:08 < KuroiKiri> sneeeeech
01:11 < onitlikesonic> Hi all, can anyone lend me a hand on ubuntu partitioning? i got the following https://pastebin.com/zPRcUinj and i am looking to get (a fixed 10GB / partition)  + (a fixed 1GB SWAP) +(all the rest of the space in an ext4 partition) howevr at the moment all is being put into the swap! crazy!
01:15 < Irbis> wodencafe: 16 on 9 there is no
01:15 < mutante> onitlikesonic: i think it is because your priority is 500 on the swap partition
01:15 < mutante> which is lower than 10000 and 10000. and lower prio = higher
01:16 < onitlikesonic> mutante: thanks, i will test it out with a higher number then
01:16 < ShapeShifter499> hi
01:16 < ShapeShifter499> are there any driver workaround for certain usb external drives?
01:16 < ShapeShifter499> *hard drives
01:17 < mutante> onitlikesonic: partman is just so.. annoying/hard.  maybe this page has something helpful for you.  https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/PartMan
01:17 < ShapeShifter499> I have a issue with WD My Passport 3tb drive, this is a BRAND NEW just got it a few hours ago through the mail after sending in the old one for warranty.  I'm getting errors like "Buffer I/O error on dev sdc, logical block 1, async page"
01:17 < mutante> (several people writing about how to read the config after spending too much time on it :)
01:18 < ShapeShifter499> I'm suspecting there is hardware quirk or something
01:21 < onitlikesonic> mutante: indeed, for most of my machines i have a set template that i swore never to to touch again, but now i need this for another strange machine... i hate it.. sometimes linux is so epoch() dated :)
01:32 < giaco> how can I test a character device by reading something from it? I'm trying cat /dev/video0 but it returns cat: /dev/video1: Invalid argument
01:32 < pankaj> What is the use of service manager. Does it runs the services at start up or what else?
01:33 < jml2> pankaj, yep
01:34 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, if that uses hardware encryption hten you're out of luck, I know that certain brands wouldn't work with Linux...
01:35 < pankaj> jml2: So, it just starts the services at startup.
01:35 < jml2> ShapeShifter499, not sure on that particular brand, but sometimes these enclosures can be set to a "mode" under "Windows" so that they work properly on other platforms
01:35 < kazdax> whats a good channel to ask about how to improve traffic to my website :D
01:36 < jml2> pankaj, yeah
01:36 < kazdax> i know its an often asked question for people wanting to promote their product
01:36 < kazdax> #web ?
01:36 < jml2> kazdax, what site is that?
01:36 < Sveta> for some reason 'kazdax' does not tab complete
01:36 < pankaj> jml2: I can understand the services like running the ssh server or display enabling netctl but what are some other system services. Is their a list of these?
01:36 < jml2> kazdax, does it even work? lol
01:36 < jml2> pankaj, I don't know
01:36 < jml2> pankaj, you'll have to use your distro's tool for that.. and it can vary
01:36 < pankaj> OK
01:37 < pankaj> jml2: OK
01:37 < kazdax> no its not yet in the process..but i want to understand how you can make users visit your website..if i may say
01:37 < kazdax> hi sveta
01:37 < jml2> pankaj, google "<distro name> service command"
01:37 < Sveta> but ask ##seo
01:37 < triceratux> pankaj: dnsmasq
01:37 < kazdax> if i may say ..It would be a website about helping people correcting software induced problems
01:37 < kazdax> thanks ill look into that
01:37 < Brainspackle> kazdax: so is it more like stackoverflow or more like silk road?
01:38 < jml2> pankaj, or if you're good with the terminal, sometimes using "apropos <service>" might put out the correct command to look into (and then use "man <manpage name>")
01:38 < Brainspackle> those are the only things that help me
01:38 < kazdax> lol
01:38 < kazdax> what did you order from silk road
01:38  * Brainspackle pleads the 5th
01:38 < jml2> triceratux, I had to setup dnsmasq recently here on a system...
01:38 < kazdax> well i just wanna make a few bucks and i can find some people who know how to operate the windows operating system
01:39 < kazdax> its just fixing OS problems for newbs
01:39 < jml2> triceratux, it takes time to set it up because there's so many dam option
01:39 < kazdax> i cant come up with a a better idea
01:39 < triceratux> pankaj: avahi-daemon, dbus-daemon, lightdm, ntpd, polkit, systemd-resolved, that kind of stuff
01:39 < Brainspackle> kazdax: porn
01:40 < onitlikesonic> mutante: seems that was not the problem :(
01:40 < pankaj> triceratux: Is their any command to list those services which automatically get started up by systemd at boot?
01:40 < jml2> pankaj, yeah
01:40 < Sveta> there
01:40 < jml2> pankaj, its called "systemctl"
01:41 < jml2> pankaj, you just hit enter and it will list the services
01:41 < jml2> triceratux, ever hear of the tool called "dex"?
01:41 < jml2> triceratux, it's a nice tool to have for all kinds of autostart things...
01:41 < pankaj> jml2: I am so sorry. I knew that command but I do not know why I keep forgetting again and again.
01:42 < jml2> pankaj, well that's why you have apropos
01:42 < jml2> pankaj, as I mentioned..
01:42 < jml2> :p
01:42 < pankaj> jml2: O yes.
01:42 < rascul> another command to remember
01:42 < rascul> 'yes' is also a command
01:42 < phinxy> wtf
01:42 < triceratux> jml2: im fairly certain i got dnsmasq working on todays altlinux sisyphus nightly. both dnsmasq & dig are preinstalled on the iso, when you systemctl start dnsmasq resolvconf toggles /etc/resolv.conf from 192.168.1.1 to 127.0.0.1, & i only had to set a listen-address to get the dig query time to drom to 0msec
01:42 < jml2> pankaj, may I introduce you to my awesome notetaking application I use-> "zim"
01:43 < jml2> triceratux, I found out why it does that..
01:43 < jml2> triceratux, by setting it up again recently..
01:43 < TheCryptek> Could I get some help :/
01:43 < jml2> triceratux, you can use the resolv-file= option to specify -> /etc/resolv.dnsmasq  <<< will be a static file
01:43 < jml2> triceratux, and you let resolvconf or anything else change the /etc/resolv.conf
01:44 < Brainspackle> TheCryptek: Yes.  I accept PayPal and Venmo
01:44 < TheCryptek> <.<
01:44 < triceratux> jml2: yep theres a gazillion ways to get those semipersistent configs & their symlinks to stop fighting with one another. & itll be different on every distro beccause of how many network programs there are & how far each one has gotten with systemd
01:45 < jml2> triceratux, actually I'm using dnsmasq as a "local dns server" -- because i have /etc/resolv.conf with 127.0.0.1 -- this is why I'm using resolv-file=/etc/resolv.dnsmasq
01:45 < TheCryptek> I'm just trying to establish a better way to back up my files on linux other then just copying and pasting to an sdcard or flashdrive @Brianspackle. I would just use my RPi3 as an NAS but it's power cord went out on me.
01:45 < jml2> triceratux, dnsmasq makes it easy to setup an www.xyz.com record with a "PTR" record as well...
01:46 < jml2> triceratux, so this is why I set it up (wordpress local -- something was looking up a PTR record I think.. so /etc/hosts is not good enough)
01:46 < Brainspackle> TheCryptek: i really like rdiff backup: https://www.tecmint.com/rdiff-backup-remote-incremental-backup-for-linux/
01:46 < triceratux> jml2: thats all im doing with it so far as well & it came up clean on altlinux. looks like its working on swagarch. wouldnt install on lubuntu-next because soething thinks port 53 is in use. once im an expert ill shoot that one maybe
01:47 < jml2> triceratux, dnsmasq is an expert tool, it's very hard to understand unless you know what "dns forwarding" means
01:48 < jml2> triceratux, dnsmasq is a dns-server/forwarder --- it will take "nameserver xxx" and use that as a forwarder.  I read it won't go to the "Root hint" servers..
01:48 < TheCryptek> @BrianBlaze, Here is my problem, I only have 1 laptop and a [non-working] raspberry pi, so I can't exactly do /remote/ backups
01:48 < triceratux> jml2: yep im just an old 192.168.1.1 guy who was using wvdial until a couple years ago
01:48 < jml2> triceratux, so it needs your ISP's nameservers (or other nameservers) elsewhere to "forward dns requests to"
01:48 < TheCryptek> @Brainspackle, [Sorry tagged wrong person]
01:49 < jml2> triceratux, if you have "127.0.0.1" in the /etc/resolv.conf <<< then you should prevent dnsmasq from reading that by setting something up appropriately
01:50 < jml2> triceratux, if you dont need dnsmasq (sounds like you don't) , then you can actually just remove it
01:50 < triceratux> jml2: i know im way over my head. this is the doc i wrote before i forget which i will real fast http://pastebin.centos.org/707671/raw/
01:50 < jml2> triceratux, it is actually an advanced tool imho, and not worth keeping if you're not doing thigns with it.  Why distros are bundling this must have to do with dnssec sometime in the future i think
01:51 < jml2> triceratux, 3a and 3b are misleading and wrong :)
01:51 < triceratux> jml2: yep its streamiling the vpn & local hostname resolution stuff. theyre preparaing to break stuff thats worked forever
01:52 < triceratux> jml2: i know thats why theyre prefaced with a "whatever"
01:53 < jml2> triceratux, dns servers --> do "forwarding" on behalf for clients..  so if your local dnsmasq server doesn't have an answer for an A record, it "forwards" the request to your isp' nameservers..
01:54 < jml2> triceratux, dnsmasq is only useful if you have a "custom" record for like giving an A record for say a lan server -- eg, dig www.mysite.com returns 192.168.1.5
01:54 < jml2> triceratux, otherwise it is not good for anything...
01:54 < jml2> triceratux, and of course some dnssec support there.. but i dont' know if it forwards things encrypted..
01:55 < triceratux> jml2: im aware i dont need it. i was giving up when i realised id succeeded in getting it to work. its a pretty adroit tool actually, & a good example of something that has to work well with systemd
01:56 < triceratux> jml2: also the writeups on the web are all over the map. a number of them tell you to create a dnsmasq group. that doesnt seem necessary
01:57 < jml2> triceratux, your problem can be fixed if you use resolv-file=/etc/resolv.dnsmasq
01:57 < jml2> triceratux, you'd have to create  static file with something like "nameserver 192.168.1.1" in that file..
01:57 < jml2> triceratux, make sure netstat -plutn has 127.0.0.1:53 listening, because you have /etc/resolv.conf with nameserver 127.0.0.1
01:58 < jml2> triceratux, dnsmasq will use 192.168.1.1 as a "dns forwarder"...
01:58 < jml2> triceratux, otherwise it will do no forwarding than replying records for things that you define for the lan..
01:59 < triceratux> jml2: tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:53                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      17630/dnsmasq
01:59 < jml2> triceratux, address=/www.xyz.com/127.0.0.1   ptr= , .... these two lines will only be replyable for clients...  so this is why you need to have forwarders..
02:00 < MrPockets> Is there a command-line tool that can be used to both view, and encrypt network documentation wile at rest?
02:00 < jml2> triceratux, and i suppose udp is there as well .. of course... :p
02:00 < jml2> MrPockets, ? you mean test tls/ssl connectivity?
02:01 < jml2> MrPockets, well there is always the classical wireshark for capture packet data..
02:01 < MrPockets> Documentation, not traffic.
02:01 < MrPockets> I essentially want like, a nano that'll encrypt a file when I'm done opening it
02:01 < triceratux> jml2: thats probably this: udp     1536      0 127.0.0.1:53                0.0.0.0:*                               17630/dnsmasq
02:01 < jml2> triceratux, note: you should use "dig" at the start because it will say what "server" is giving the response..
02:02 < MrPockets> I've been using GPG, but it's cumbersome to have to use gpg to decrypt, open the file, view / update it, close it, delete the original GPG, re-encrypt it with GPG, etc.
02:02 < jml2> triceratux, dnsmasq will always be the server from "dig's" output because it is acting on behalf for you for relaying the dns requests to any forwarders..
02:03 < meyou> @MrPockets, vigpg?
02:03 < jml2> triceratux, "If you don't want dnsmasq to read /etc/hosts" << use "no-hosts"
02:04 < jml2> triceratux, if you don't want dnsmasq to reply on behalf for /etc/hosts ...
02:04  * MrPockets googles
02:04 < jml2> triceratux, bind9 which is a dns server doesn't do the crazy things dnsmasq does... lol
02:04 < triceratux> jml2: i had a separate bug on altlinux over its empty /etc/hosts. id already put 127.0.0.1 in it to get midnightcommander to start without a multisecond lag. its a known mc bug
02:05 < jml2> triceratux, but if you're the client from the local system .. it also depends on NSS if you have "file" activated.. this is confusing and you can ignore me about "no-hosts"
02:05 < MrPockets> oh man, meyou, I think this is exactly what I was looking for.
02:05 < meyou> :)
02:05 < MrPockets> A comparable nano tool doesn't exist, does it?
02:05  * MrPockets ducks 
02:05 < meyou> don't think so, i checked
02:07 < triceratux> jml2: currently taking a breather before the xubuntu bionic shakedown. tomorrows going to be fun
02:07 < jml2> triceratux, you should disable dhcp whereer possible,
02:07 < jml2> triceratux, because normally dhcp listens on raw sockets...
02:08 < jml2> triceratux, which bypasses the firewall...
02:08 < jml2> triceratux, (no-dhcp-interface=)
02:08 < jml2> triceratux, I know you have dns listening on lo, but make sure dhcp is disabled with dnsmasq
02:09 < triceratux> jml2: is running dnsmasq potentially an additional security risk if i dont have it configured in a bulletproof fashion ?
02:09 < jml2> triceratux, i think you need to specify dhcp options to make the dhcp feasible..
02:10 < jml2> triceratux, but I still make sure dhcp is disabled by using no-dhcp-interface specified for each interface
02:11 < jml2> triceratux, no-poll  << I added this to my dnsmasq because I know /etc/hosts is never going to be changed when all it has is nameserver 127.0.0.1
02:11 < jml2> triceratux, if a local DHCP or VPN client is automatically updating /etc/resolv.conf, then yuo don't want to use no-poll
02:12 < jml2> triceratux, typo ...
02:12 < triceratux> jml2: like i said, resolvconf is toggling the /etc/resolv.conf nameserver in response to systemd managing dnsmasq. astoundingly well configured
02:13 < jml2> triceratux, no-poll  << I added this to my dnsmasq because I know  """" /etc/resolv.conf """ is never going to be changed when all it has is nameserver 127.0.0.1
02:13 < jml2> triceratux, I don't use dhcp here on my system.. so resolv.conf never changes...
02:16 < jml2> triceratux, you can setup your dhcp client to prioritize nameserver 127.0.0.1,  -- or better to ignore the "nameserver" dhcp options .. this way resolv.conf stays the same..
02:17 < jml2> triceratux, if you ignore the dhcp -dns-namserver options, then you need to specify forwarders for dnsmasq
02:19 < MrPockets> meyou, Are you familiar with "pass"  ?
02:19 < rypervenche> MrPockets: vim has a gnupg plugin that opens GPG-encrypted files and lets you edit them and then re-encrypt them as you save them.
02:19 < jml2> triceratux, you should always this in your firewall rule (not documented properly) -->  -i lo -j ACCEPT ...
02:19 < rypervenche> MrPockets: That's what I use for my "lastpass" sort of manual setup.
02:19 < meyou> i am not
02:19 < MrPockets> rypervenche, thanks!
02:20 < jml2> triceratux, contrary what people think, the "lo" interface can have traffic showing source and destination addresses of another interface..
02:20 < jml2> triceratux, (tcpdump -i lo -n)
02:20 < rypervenche> MrPockets: I made a script that then decrypts it from a popup window, throws the user of the site into my clipboard for a second, then the password for 4 seconds, then deletes the clipboard.
02:20 < jml2> triceratux, iptables -I INPUT -i lo -s 127/8 -d 127/8 -j ACCEPT << is not good
02:20 < jml2> triceratux, iptables -I INPUT -i lo  << is good
02:21 < rypervenche> -j ACCEPT
02:21 < jml2> triceratux, (this is because you can be doing traffic starting and ending to the local host)
02:21 < jml2> triceratux, (and certain background services do this)
02:22 < jml2> rypervenche, correct
02:22 < Roey> hi
02:22 < Roey> whoah nellie, lotsa folks here.
02:22 < jml2> triceratux, iptables -I INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT <<<
02:23 < Roey> SadieTheLlama: o/
02:23 < jml2> rypervenche, you know what happens if I omit -j ACCEPT right?
02:23 < jml2> rypervenche, lol
02:24 < jml2> rypervenche, if you do packet marking it is feasible to omit -j ..
02:24 < rypervenche> jml2: I'm guessing from your reply that it defaults to -j ACCEPT. I would always prefer to be explicit, lest the defaults change.
02:25 < jml2> rypervenche, actually the target would be blank, there would be a match, and it can do packet marking if there's any on that match rule, and then it'll continue reading the rest of the rules..
02:27 < jml2> rypervenche, port knocking rules omit the -j ...
02:28 < rypervenche> jml2: Not the port knocking rules that I've seen. Do you have any good resources for what you're talking about? From a quick search, I'm only finding -j MARK as what you might be referring to.
02:28 < jml2> rypervenche, I use these rules without -j..
02:29 < Hextor> If I wanted to sandbox various wordpress installs for different domains from each other, what's the easiest way, openvz, docker, some sort of chroot? I don't think apache allows you to run instances under user accouns and just has one account for all sites
02:29 < jml2> rypervenche, -A PN2 -m recent --remove --name PN1 --mask 255.255.255.255 --rsource     (example)
02:29 < KitaKat> Dad
02:29 < xamithan> docker probably as it likely has already done images ready to pull
02:30 < Hextor> Can docker work inside of a VMware VM
02:30 < rypervenche> jml2: Ahh, using the recent module. That makes sense.
02:31 < xamithan> If you enable nested virtualization inside vmware,  sure
02:31 < jml2> rypervenche, -A PN -m recent ! --rcheck --name PN1 --mask 255.255.255.255 --rsource -j CP1
02:31 < jml2> rypervenche, the "!" negate makes the portknocking very helpful
02:32 < Hextor> So docker is a heavy duty virtualization. Perhaps openVZ is more resource efficient
02:32 < jml2> rypervenche, makes the outline very clear and easy to follow...
02:32 < xamithan> docker on linux is more like chroot
02:32 < xamithan> on windows it uses hyper-v
02:32 < Hextor> I run centos, what's better for that?
02:33 < Hextor> I assume it helps a lot to have different mysql logins. But the php sploits worry me
02:34 < xamithan> It all depends on what apps you use and how you need it to interact with other services.  openVZ would be more like a VPS so i'd assume it is more resource heavy
02:34 < jml2> rypervenche, I have two lines without -j , when checking knock #3 -> -A CP3 -m recent --remove --name PN1 --mask 255.255.255.255 --rsource    ,    -A CP3 -m recent --remove --name PN2 --mask 255.255.255.255 --rsource   , and then the next line is an all -j DROP
02:34 < rypervenche> jml2: That might be a useful thing for me to set up :) I'll see what I can do since nftables doesn't have the recent module.
02:35 < jml2> rypervenche, it's actually very easy to visualize.. because with the "!" negate makes it very easy..
02:35 < jml2> rypervenche, I can post it on pastebin
02:36 < Hextor> I was thinking of a wordpress install for each domain. I heard WP and especially, most especially, WP plugins are awful.
02:39 < jml2> rypervenche, v
02:39 < jml2> rypervenche, https://pastebin.ca/4018717
02:41 < jml2> you need to create the custom chains with -N iirc
02:41 < jml2> rypervenche, so iptables -N PN, and for CP1 to CP3 ..
02:42 < rypervenche> jml2: Yep, I understand. I use the recent module on other machines. This one has nftables, so I'll likely have to set up something manually.
02:42 < jml2> rypervenche, it is also possible to have a portknocking in iptables for a "front router" but that is much difficult with the nat table -- or whatever other table there is because I think -j DROP is not used but something else..
02:43 < pankaj> What exactly is a build system. I am having confusion with other compile tools which can also to some degree automate the process of compilation.
02:44 < uplime> the collection of tools used to build your program
02:44 < jml2> rypervenche, iptables works with nftables no?
02:44 < jml2> rypervenche, since 3.17 iirc
02:45 < pankaj> uplime: Like?
02:45 < uplime> pankaj: depends on the project, the os, the language, and where you're deploying it to
02:46 < rypervenche> jml2: I use straight up nftables. Oh, I can just create a set with a timeout. That would be very neat.
02:46 < jml2> rypervenche, there's a package called iptables-nftables-compat here on my debian..
02:46 < jml2> rypervenche, using those remove/resource lines is more effective..
02:47 < jml2> rypervenche, fwiw I use hping to do the udp knocking
02:48 < jml2> rypervenche, (package hping3)
02:48 < rypervenche> jml2: the recent module doesn't exist in nftables, and does not exist in the iptables nftables translation that that package provides.
02:49 < rypervenche> Yeah, hping3 or nmap will do.
02:49 < jml2> rypervenche, yeah I use something like a timeout for another setup .. because somebody wants to do a ssh login from the outside.. so I have a cron job doing a "ping" once every couple of minutes to keep the gates open between client and server
02:50 < rypervenche> jml2: I can simply have any IP that hits that port be added to a set with a small timeout and then allow that set access to the next port, etc.
02:50 < jml2> rypervenche, and then use "noip"'s daemon (from noip.com)  and that's pretty sweet to use with remote ssh things... never worry about a change of ip...
02:50 < pankaj> uplime: I do not understand that.
02:50 < rypervenche> Yep, I use that. ddclient though
02:51 < jml2> rypervenche, it's stealth
02:51 < jml2> rypervenche, there's also a portknock app for android :)
02:51 < jml2> rypervenche, it can do any udp/tcp pn, then immediately start an application..
02:51 < rypervenche> Nah, I like to do things manually.
02:52 < jml2> rypervenche, I got a camera system app that I set a pn on the gateway... so I use that..
02:52 < jml2> rypervenche, camera stream is still encrypted, but I don't like those scanners that would detect a login service
02:52 < rypervenche> jml2: I hear ya.
02:54 < jml2> rypervenche, is iptables going to be dropped ?
02:54 < jml2> rypervenche, what's that package iptables-nftables-compat ?
02:55 < rypervenche> jml2: I believe on newer kernels nftables is already being used on the backend, but I haven't looked into that claim.
02:55 < pankaj> What is the difference between coreutils and util-linux packages?
02:55 < rypervenche> jml2: It just eases the migration: https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Moving_from_iptables_to_nftables
02:58 < jml2> pankaj, coreutils is commands like cp, mv, and ls...
02:58 < nullius> cat
02:58 < jml2> pankaj, util-linux is things like mount I think .. more "system" adminstrative ..
02:59 < jml2> pankaj, actually there is no mount, but there is the test tool mountpoint... you can see what commands are in the package with dpkg -L <package name>
02:59 < jml2> pankaj, and grep bin ...
02:59 < jml2> pankaj, all scripts need access to coreutils ... so you'll find it on any linux distro..
03:00 < wadadli> Should I resize the fs on a lvm before reducing it or does lvreduce handle this for me?
03:00 < uplime> not all scripts need access to coreutils
03:00 < jml2> pankaj, see "man intro" for an introductory :p
03:01 < pankaj> jml2: OK. Seeing man intro
03:02 < Skunky> wadadli: filesystem first, then underlying volume.
03:02 < wadadli> are the same procedures for reducing a standard lvm the same for a thinly provisioned logical volume?
03:02 < jml2> rypervenche, https://www.spinics.net/lists/netfilter/msg57506.html   -- oh yes I remember I think the recent module that is being used lasts for like 7 seconds by default..
03:03 < pankaj> jml2: I saw 'intro' but their is no single word about this topic either
03:03 < rypervenche> jml2: I was going to link you to that page actually, but didn't.
03:03 < jml2> rypervenche, it's usually there on all linux distros..
03:03 < jml2> sorry
03:03 < jml2> pankaj, I meant..
03:04 < jml2> pankaj, how long ago did you install that linux setup?
03:04 < jml2> pankaj, sometimes the manpage cache is not yet updated until cron runs it
03:04 < jml2> nways that manpage shows the basics like ls, chmod, for very new users..
03:05 < jml2> it helps for the start.. but then it is very limitted...
03:05 < pankaj> jml2: I am just following 'Linux from scratch'. So, I saw these two packages that I have to use but did not get what is the difference. If their would not be any difference then the community would have not advised me.
03:05 < pankaj> jml2: I know about core utils. But what about util-linx.
03:05 < jml2> pankaj, those packages are very standard... you'll find that util-linux is maintained by the kernel maintainer site..
03:05 < uplime> you shouldn't be doing LFS if you don't already have a good understanding of these tools and concepts
03:06 < jml2> pankaj, you'll see it upstream from somewhere kernel.org
03:06 < jml2> pankaj, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Util-linux
03:06 < pankaj> jml2: OK. So, what does this package do. How does it help the kernel or in what good way it is related to kernel?
03:06 < jml2> pankaj, there are basic tools for the Linux system...
03:07 < jml2> pankaj, it helps to create the user space...
03:07 < triceratux> https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/util-linux/
03:08 < pankaj> jml2: Like?
03:08 < jml2> pankaj, like being able to do anything :)
03:08 < jml2> pankaj, posix comes to mind
03:09 < jml2> pankaj, a basic shell with posix-like attributes
03:09  * jml2 says mirror mirron on the wall who has the best distro of all!
03:09 < pankaj> jml2: I am unable to stack all these different looking ideas in one place.
03:10 < jml2> pankaj, I remember when I started linux, I had to upgrade my brain
03:10 < pankaj> jml2: What is its main purpose. It could have also been packaged with linux kernel package also.
03:10  * jml2 gives pankaj an upgraded brain
03:10 < pankaj> jml2: Their is something different and important about it.
03:11 < triceratux> jml2: its overwhelming the first time you encounter it. but it doesnt go away. youll get used to it the more you work with it
03:11 < jml2> pankaj, no because the kernel is not user space
03:11 < triceratux> jml2: oops pankaj ^^
03:11 < jml2> pankaj, there's kernel space and user space..
03:11 < pankaj> jml2: OK.
03:11 < jml2> pankaj, if you have access to kernel space all the time as a regular user, a basic "application crash" or user-error can mean lost of all your data.
03:12 < pankaj> jml2: That makes a sense.
03:12 < jml2> pankaj, this is why the two are separate.  When the kernel "crashes" it is actually preventing a loss of user data..
03:12 < pankaj> jml2: I think linux-utils package is used to handle linux kernel (for building the system) when I am not under the sytem that I am building.
03:12 < triceratux> the kernel interacts directly with the hardware. the userspace interacts directly with the user
03:12 < ananke> how does a kernel crash prevent loss of user data?
03:13 < jml2> ananke, by not letting unknown instructions take over into kernel space?
03:13 < pankaj> jml2: So, what is your conclusion about 'util-linux'?
03:13 < jml2> there's something called security rings..
03:13 < jml2> pankaj, no conclusion
03:13 < jim> -
03:14 < ananke> jml2: uhmm, when a kernel _crashes_, loss of data is a given. not sure why you consider crashing a way of 'preventing' loss of data
03:14 < jml2> ananke, it's a nice aesthetic
03:14 < ananke> jml2: unless you define 'loss' as 'compromise'
03:14 < pankaj> jml2: Do anyone have idea on why util-linux and linux kernel are separate packages?
03:15 < ananke> jml2: what does that even mean?
03:15 < jml2> ananke, ^
03:15  * jml2 :)
03:15 < jml2> ananke, you want to define posix to him? XD
03:15 < ananke> pankaj: because one is a kernel, and another one is a set of utilities that run on a given kernel
03:15 < pankaj> ananke: OK. Just what about util-linux.
03:15 < ananke> jml2: it's not necessary
03:15 < jml2> ananke, why Linux and not Unix? XD
03:15 < pankaj> ananke: So, what utilities. Are their some examples for proper grasping of this stuff?
03:16 < ananke> pankaj: yes. look at the first diagram here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system
03:16 < jml2> pankaj, there's great books on Linux... I would suggest to read up about it and try Linux in something called virtualbox.. (virtualbox.org) -- all you need is an iso and virtualbox.. (no need for burning a cd or even using a real usb)
03:16 < triceratux> http://pastebin.centos.org/707676/raw/
03:17 < jml2> triceratux, dnsmasq is "good" imho (as I said) if you want to impersnate your own A and PTR records for a lan..
03:17 < pankaj> jml2: Is it a comment or advice or what?
03:17 < jml2> pankaj, I've been using Linux for 17 years..
03:18 < pankaj> jml2: Because I think many programmers usually know about virtualbox.
03:18 < jml2> pankaj, i'm stating facts, util-linux is a base core package on all linux distros..
03:18 < jml2> pankaj, I gave you like um 4 links and you should at least read up about them :)
03:18 < jml2> pankaj, (as well as coreutils)..
03:18 < pankaj> jml2: I know sir but I just want to know that why they are separate packages.
03:18 < ananke> jml2: not on all. busybox takes its place on minimal distros
03:18 < jml2> pankaj, you're a developer ?
03:19 < jml2> pankaj, how did you go from user to developer all of a sudden?
03:19 < jml2> pankaj, why the kernel is separate from user space?
03:19 < jml2> pankaj, because the kernel is not user space..
03:19 < jml2> pankaj, libc is outside the kernel...
03:19 < triceratux> jml2: i appreciate the guidance & im continuing to google slowly. i trust dhcp & simon kelley but nothing will ever get me to trust lennart ;)
03:20 < jml2> (libc helps to bind user-space basic commands with the kernel)
03:20 < pankaj> jml2: The more and more I am listening to you the more I am making sure that linux-utils would be used to handle linux-kernel package when building system (As I am not inside it).
03:20 < jml2> pankaj, read up on ldd ldconfig and binary-library binding..
03:21 < jml2> pankaj, you dont have to listen to me.
03:21 < pankaj> jml2: OK. I am going to read the links you gave briefly.
03:21 < keviv> Hi, I have set the kernel boot parameters `nmi_watchdog=panic panic=15`. This seems to work for soft lockups (debug info is printed, then panic() is called and 15 seconds later the system reboots), but a hard lockup will print out debug info but never panic. Is there another parameter I need to set?
03:21 < jml2> pankaj, you should go out and read about these things :)
03:21 < jml2> pankaj, because you won't understand what Z is if you don't know what "A" is :)
03:21 < pankaj> jml2: OK Sir. Here I go.
03:21 < pankaj> jml2: THanks
03:22 < ananke> pankaj: what are you trying to accomplish or learn? sounds like the concepts you're confused about are more of general operating system ideas, rather than anything linux specific
03:22 < jml2> pankaj, you're thinking about kernel systems back from the 1940's... these systems were not multi-user :)
03:23 < jml2> pankaj, back in those days the kernel space was the user-space... the user was essentially the 24/7 developer XD
03:23 < autopsy> jml2, I didn't know there were kernels in 1940
03:23 < wadadli> How can I resize a ext4 fs to it's take up the maximum amount of space available.
03:23 < jml2> autopsy, not how we now know them :)
03:23 < autopsy> Ah.
03:24 < pankaj> jml2: If I am confused about it then please you make sense and give the anwer.
03:24 < jml2> pankaj, do you know where the term "bug" came from?
03:24 < jml2> pankaj, it makes a great bedtime story actually.. but I won't be telling the goodies about how the term "bug" came to be tehehehe
03:24 < ananke> jml2: not sure if you're helping him, or just confusing him more
03:24 < s33r> wadadli: man parted should have this in there
03:25 < wadadli> How can I determine the true size of an ext4 partition?
03:25 < jml2> wadadli, ? the partition table?
03:26 < jml2> wadadli, where else?
03:26 < pankaj> jml2: I saw a documentary on computers and it stated that in olden days computer were mostly mechanical and when something wrong happens to the system they would check and in some cases see an insect being hung and so problem caused. So, the name bug
03:26 < jml2> wadadli, if you mean "ext4 filesystem" then it will be smaller than the partition it is residing on..
03:26 < wadadli> ah there's a tool dumpe2fs jml2
03:26 < pankaj> ananke: You are confusing me.
03:27 < pankaj> jml2: I understood what jml2 is trying to say.
03:27 < jml2> pankaj, everybody is confusing you.. because a kernel depends on hardware architecture design
03:27 < ananke> pankaj: interesting, considering I barely said anything to you
03:27 < jml2> pankaj, sounds like you're trying to create an abstract construct of how computers are generally designed..
03:28 < jml2> pankaj, it comes down to understanding how "cpu registers" exists on the main cpu processor that determines how the kernel should be implemented..
03:28 < jml2> pankaj, "cpu registers" are special circuits inside the cpu... and the kernel needs to understand those..
03:28 < pankaj> jml2: I respect you both guys but I just wanted to know about the difference that why both are different and package separately.
03:28 < wadadli> jml2: ye I resized it previously to 150G (resize2fs /dev/fedora/home 150G)
03:28 < wadadli> then resized the lvm to 150G
03:28 < jml2> pankaj, coreutils and util-linux both should never have to worry how "cpu registers" operate.. this is the job of the kernel..
03:29 < wadadli> but for some reason gnome disk says that it's 161G
03:29 < jml2> pankaj, only the kernel has access to cpu registers..
03:29 < wadadli> while lsblk says 150G
03:29 < jml2> pankaj, otherwise you have something called "race conditions"
03:29 < jml2> pankaj, where all programs fight over how can use the hard-drive..
03:29 < wadadli> but lsblk will pull the size of the lvm not the fs
03:29 < wadadli> so need a way to double check the size of the fs
03:29 < wadadli> to compare with gnome-disk
03:30 < ananke> pankaj: because they're authored by different groups of people
03:30 < jml2> pankaj, instead programs are put into a "queue" so they each get their turn to write to the hard-drive...
03:30 < jml2> pankaj, so this is why the kernel has something called a "scheduler"...
03:31 < jml2> pankaj, it's like everybody trying to access the doorway... people need to be lined-up so each in turn can access the door :)
03:31 < ananke> pankaj: util-linux is specific to linux, while coreutils is not.
03:33 < jml2> pankaj, kernel supports "system calls" , and programs must use "system calls" in order to use the hardware...
03:33 < jml2> pankaj, so say you use "strace" on a program, it will show what "system calls" were used to talk to the kernel... and then the kernel takes care of talking to the hardware..
03:33 < ananke> jml2: not sure your monologue serves much of a purpose
03:34 < jml2> ananke, dunno he did say he understood me but not you.  lol
03:34 < pankaj> jml2: Ya, I knew whatever you just said.
03:34 < jml2> ananke, see :)
03:34  * jml2 laughs
03:34 < ananke> jml2: meh
03:35 < ananke> none of that is relevant to the actual question at hand: why are those two packages different
03:35 < jml2> no he's not asking that.
03:35 < ananke> jml2: he just did
03:35 < pankaj> jml2: So, you and anake have to figure out; I think.
03:35 < nmschulte> Is there a Unix/Linux command/utility (of the GNU Coreutils, GNU Binutils, util-linux likes) to watch a file system for changes in order to mirror them (or perhaps more generally "take action")?
03:36 < ananke> jml2: 21:28  pankaj> jml2: I respect you both guys but I just wanted to know about the difference that why both are different and package separately.
03:36 < ananke> nmschulte: inotify
03:36 < jml2> ananke, he's asking about the kernel being packaged with one of those two
03:36 < ananke> kernel is not packaged with either of the two
03:36 < pankaj> jml2: I think first I see the procedure of lfs and then may be I would understand that.
03:36 < jml2> ananke, he's not seeing why they can't be packaged together as one
03:37 < triceratux> inb4 inotifywait https://linux.die.net/man/1/inotifywait
03:37 < jml2> pankaj, have you ever seen a kernel tarball from kernel.org ?
03:37 < Skunky> coreutils are things that you'll find on almost any *nix system. util-linux is things that are specific to linux
03:37 < pankaj> jml2: I have downloaded sometimes.
03:37 < jml2> pankaj, that's where distributions get their kernel from. and it is always the kernel separate from util-linux
03:37 < jml2> pankaj, well you should ask them.
03:38 < jml2> pankaj, libc is not part of the kernel..
03:38 < nmschulte> ananke: inotify tooling isn't commonly installed it seems.  :(  -- this is the right idea though, so I guess thanks.
03:38 < pankaj> jml2: Thanks for redirecting.
03:38 < ananke> not sure why there's any talk about the kernel when the question is: 20:55  pankaj> What is the difference between coreutils and util-linux packages?
03:38 < pankaj> jml2: OK. Thanks. Now, I have to return to my lfs process. It's is getting late. Thanks again
03:39 < jml2> pankaj, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_standard_library   -- libc  << think "system calls"
03:39 < DetectiveTaco> Why do y’all hate nick changes so much lol
03:39 < jml2> pankaj, the coreutils uses "libc" .... so now do you get the sketch?
03:39 < nmschulte> holy shit... you guys were seriously discussing coreutils and util-linux before I asked my Q?  I didn't even notice.
03:39 < triceratux> DetectiveTaco: theyre cloned to everyone attached to irc channels so they spawn highly unnecessary traffic
03:40 < pankaj> jml2: Yes, I really got. Stronger now
03:41 < mecotri> Is there a command line utility, kernel module, or anything else that can be used to keep a computer awake without resorting to simulating mouse or keyboard input? I don't want to toggle screen blanking either. Ideally I need a solution that just would allow me to programatically send a heartbeat that resets the display timeout period.
03:41 < nmschulte> mecotri: define "awake"
03:41 < nmschulte> xset -dpms
03:41 < Skunky> mecotri: why wouldn't you just turn off the stupid screen blanker?
03:41 < pankaj> jml2: Just one question. I have tried reading some books but they were not to the point and also like boring. I want to learn assembly language. What are some resources to follow. I have basic understanding but could not go far because many of the books are like that.
03:42 < mecotri> nmschulte: running with screens on. I'm trying to prevent screens from going to sleep without disabling sleep.
03:42 < pankaj> jml2: What is your advice on it?
03:42 < nmschulte> xset s noblank, xset s off, of course.
03:42 < nmschulte> mecotri: are you running X11?
03:42 < jml2> pankaj, I don' tknow.. but there's a free assembly book online..
03:43 < jml2> its a famouse one, I forget the name, but it is popular..
03:43 < mecotri> nmschulte: I'm running Ubuntu 17.10 whatever the default is for that.
03:43 < srukle> where may i find that book jml2?
03:43 < nmschulte> pankaj: art of assembly is where you should start, I guess?  dunno if it's been updated for modern architectures / instruction sets though
03:43 < srukle> we don't have assembly at my uni :(
03:43 < jml2> nmschulte, thanks its that one
03:43 < pankaj> jml2: Ya. Some are available as pdf but they are not to the point as user wants.
03:43  * jml2 http://www.plantation-productions.com/Webster/
03:44 < jml2> pankaj, there's always MIT opencourseware...
03:44 < srukle> such a strange url, thanks jml2
03:44 < jml2> pankaj, there's also "udemy" though dunno how well some assembly courses are on those
03:44 < pankaj> jml2: Is it free?
03:44 < nmschulte> pankaj: I haven't read / referenced it in a while, but it worked well for me; very pointed.
03:44 < jml2> pankaj, should be free...
03:45 < pankaj> jml2: What? Opencourseware?
03:45 < nmschulte> if you want "to the point" I guess you should look to intel.com for reference manuals of specific architectures/chips?
03:45 < mecotri> Skunky: Because there are plenty of times I need to leave my computer on but want the monitors to sleep. Problem is there are also plenty of times I'm working on something in front of my computer using a webpage or PDF as a refernce and it's annoying to have the monitors sleep then. I'm making a circuit that will let my computer know when I'm sitting at it but not moving the mouse or using the keyboard so the monitors don't blank.
03:45 < pankaj> jml2: OK. I got that. Thanks
03:46 < nmschulte> I think there's ##hardware, too.
03:47 < Skunky> mecotri: woulnd't it just be simpler to turn off the monitors when you aren't using them?  :)
03:47 < nmschulte> mecotri: xset is the command you want; shell script that: runs xset -dpms && xset s off; waits for any user input you desire; runs xset +dpms && xset s on;
03:48 < nmschulte> mecotri: I have to ask... have you tried simply increasing the sleep timeout?
03:48 < mecotri> Skunky: No because you don't always know when walking away for a few minutes will turn into an hour and I don't know about your hardware but my monitors expect to be slept and not turned on and off -- the buttons are very hard to access.
03:49 < Skunky> mecotri: you can do what nmschulte suggests, or hook into xscreensaver somehow, it's already got logic for watching for "input" and not blanking the screen
03:51 < mecotri> nmschulte: Ok thanks. I have but to be honest this is one of those because I can moments. I don't need to make something to solve this annoyance but I can and want to.
03:52 < justsomeguy> I guess you could just use xscreensaver as intended, right? It should keep the monitor from going to sleep...
03:52 < nmschulte> mecotri: good luck!
03:52 < mecotri> nmschulte: Thanks.
03:55 < jml2> triceratux, ever heard of "dex" ?
03:56 < wadadli> df -h displays my FS as being 147G but gnome-disk shows 161G
03:56  * triceratux googles furiously
03:56 < jml2> triceratux, since you work with 'em light desktop environments, i'm seeing what else i could be missing for tools like it..
03:57 < mutante> dex now means decentralized exchange
03:57 < jml2> triceratux, it helps create .desktop and can autostar ~/.config/autostart ...  it's great for non-xdg environments..
03:57 < nmschulte> wadadli: https://www.google.com/search?q=161+gigabytes+to+gibibytes
03:58 < wadadli> nmschulte: did you actually look at that number?
03:58 < jml2> triceratux,  https://github.com/jceb/dex  (packaged on debian) , I came across when I was troubleshooting .desktop issues..
03:58 < nmschulte> I'm guessing, of course.  the numbers don't match as well as you stated.
03:59 < wadadli> 161Gigabyte is 149.9429Gibibyte
04:00 < triceratux> jml2: definitely a work in progress. lotsa reddit, broken links, cant decide if its desktop or embedded, worth keeping an eye on https://liliputing.com/2018/04/samsung-dex-pad-coming-may-13-for-100-use-galaxy-s9-like-a-desktop-keyboard-or-touchpad.html
04:00 < wadadli> oh well I'll stop fixating over this, it is what it is, not even math makes sense anymore.
04:00 < nmschulte> I get similar error when I compare my file system, wadadli.
04:00 < wadadli> nmschulte: eh well that's reassuring
04:00 < nmschulte> I'd trust df, :)
04:00 < wadadli> mutante: did you also check gnome-disk?
04:00 < nmschulte> wadadli: yes.
04:01 < wadadli> ha woah
04:01 < nmschulte> wadadli: I assume one of the two is not reporting file system overhead (e.g. journal) or something and only talking about "files on disk"
04:01 < jml2> triceratux, did you hear about the librem phone? they're going to be supporting the utouch from a focused team that wants the original ubuntu touch..
04:01  * jml2 https://www.zdnet.com/article/ubuntu-touch-lives-on-in-purisms-librem-5-smartphone/
04:02 < jml2> ./ubports./ to be more technical
04:02 < nmschulte> wadadli: I assume df is not reporting that overhead, only reporting "available blocks for inodes/files"
04:02 < triceratux> jml2: yep im keeping an eye on that too. just limping along with android netbooks & handsets in the meantime https://liliputing.com/2018/04/librem-5-linux-smartphone-will-support-ubuntu-touch-pureos-or-pureos-with-kde-plasma-mobile.html
04:03 < nmschulte> wadadli: or just completely distrust gnome-disks... its ays there's 98 GB free, but df shows only 77 GB (72 GiB)
04:07 < nmschulte> wadadli: look at the size vs usage (% full) for this volume -- http://oi63.tinypic.com/23msz1u.jpg
04:08 < justsomeguy> lol, that pretty much sums up my experience with gnome disks.
04:08 < nmschulte> I wanna file a GitHub issue with that image as the only content.
04:09 < wadadli> woah
04:09 < xamithan> that belongs on softwaregore sub reddit
04:09 < nmschulte> idk why I even have gnome-disks installed, I don't use Gnome.  silly Debian packaging!
04:09 < wadadli> which version of gnome-disk is this nmschulte ?
04:09 < nmschulte> gnome-disks --version -- Unknown option --version
04:10 < nmschulte> gnome-disk-utility 3.28.1 -- UDisks 2.7.6 (built against 2.7.6)
04:11 < wadadli> How did you get that version output?
04:13 < justsomeguy> Woo, netsplit!
04:13 < mutante> ah looks like matrix or cloud something went down again
04:14 < nmschulte> wadadli: the button on the top left of the window, hides the real menu.  the one on the right is like a dedicated context menu or something, becuase menubars are too clunky or something?
04:14 < nmschulte> or something.
04:15 < wadadli> lol smh
04:16  * wadadli gets back to real life
04:16 < al|iss> netsplit
04:16 < blaztek> Gnome Disk Utility uses 1 kilobyte = 1000 bytes because that’s what disk manufacturers say
04:17 < al|iss> ayyyyyyyyyyy
04:17 < nmschulte> blaztek: take a closer look at the screenshot pasted above
04:17 < nmschulte> the base 10 vs base 2 approximations doesn't nearly account for the discrepancy.
04:20 < blaztek> But what does fdisk -l say?
04:21 < wadadli> blaztek: Disk /dev/mapper/fedora-home: 150 GiB, 161061273600 bytes, 314572800 sectors
04:23 < nmschulte> blaztek: fdisk reports partition info, not file system info
04:24 < blaztek> But things like efi and swap aren’t part of the file system
04:25 < nmschulte> gnome-disks reports more than just file system information
04:27 < nmschulte> xamithan: https://www.reddit.com/r/softwaregore/comments/8ez9cc/gnomedisks/
04:33 < s33r> configured mpd + ncmpcpp for the first time... all for the terminal visualizer haha
04:36 < stevendale> Hey
04:38 < hdogan> how can I write regex for "repeats in every 3 characters, e.g aa1bb1cc1dd1"
04:39 < Sveta> depends on what language
04:39 < markasoftware> not really...
04:39 < hdogan> Sveta, let's say for bash
04:39 < markasoftware> /(1[^1]{2})*/ or something
04:39 < markasoftware> for the character one
04:40 < markasoftware> although i think if you explain your problem in more detail we will discover that my solution is not sufficient
04:40 < hdogan> markasoftware, why do we need "/"
04:41 < markasoftware> that's just the end of the regex, i'm used to it
04:41 < markasoftware> don't need it i guess in grep
04:45 < hdogan> markasoftware, I have these 2 lines in my text file "aa1bb1cc1dd1 \n a1abb1cc1dd1". I want to match the regex to the first one. grep "(1[^1]{2})*" text.txt didn't work
04:46 < markasoftware> add -P option to grep
04:46 < markasoftware> you want only the first one?
04:48 < hdogan> markasoftware, yes
04:49 < markasoftware> so, you want every third character, starting at the third character? try ^([^1]{2}1)*$
04:50 < markasoftware> i can confirm this one works for your example input
04:51 < markasoftware> but only if you give the -P option to grep
04:51 < stevendale> Does Linux get fragmented?
04:51 < markasoftware> stevendale: as in hdd fragmentation? yes
04:51 < fendur> markasoftware: wouldn't that match an empty string?
04:52 < markasoftware> fendur: yeah, i guess you could change * to +
04:53 < hdogan> markasoftware, yeap, it works with -P. I guess I can't use this regex in let say Python?
04:53 < markasoftware> you probably can
04:53 < stevendale> Hi, I'm wondering if my system is able to run Team Fortress 2 on Minimum quality, native resolution (1600x900) at an acceptable framerate, RAM is DDR3-1333 MHz, GPU has 256 MB DDR2 VRAM and is getting PCI express x16 bandwidth, CPU has 2 cores 4 threads, HDD is 3.5" 7200 RPM SATA-II
04:53 < stevendale> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "artful" 17.10 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU         650  @ 3.20GHz (1.23GHz) • Memory: Physical: 5.7 GiB Total (5.1 GiB Free) Swap: 2.0 GiB Total (2.0 GiB Free) • Storage: 16.6 GB / 163.1 GB (146.5 GB Free) • VGA: NVIDIA Corporation G84 [GeForce 8400 GS] @ Intel Corporation Core Processor QuickPath Architecture System Address Decoder • Uptime: 2h 8m 27s
04:54 < strive>  lol
04:54  * al|iss smiles
04:54 < ayecee> try it and see.
04:56 < Sveta> maybe it would
04:57 < deizen> Hey, I am new here
04:57 < stevendale> Hi deizen
04:57 < stevendale> How can we help o/
04:57 < deizen> Hey !
04:58 < deizen> Don't have any problem at this moment but will definitely trouble you guys when I have one
04:58 < jim> deizen, welcome
04:58 < deizen> *evil laughter
04:59 < triceratux> deizen: cool. what distro are you on so we can estimate when ? ;)
04:59 < jim> a question I would have, is have you installed linux yet?
04:59 < al|iss> xD
04:59 < fareast> back to kde
04:59 < fareast> glad I did
05:00 < deizen> Yeah.... I moved to Debian :(
05:00 < fareast> cinnamon was lacking some obvious features I was looking for
05:00 < jim> you don't like it?
05:00 < deizen> Will change to arch in a week
05:00 < deizen> I like arch better
05:00 < fareast> some people argue an advanced gui isn't what they are looking for but jesus its 2018 are we wearing analog watches working with cassette tapes?
05:00 < jim> ok :) what do you think makes it better?
05:01 < fareast> just general gui stuff
05:01 < markasoftware> fight fight fight!
05:01 < deizen> The multitude of problems it throws at me
05:01 < ayecee> fareast: it's fun pushing over straw men, isn't it
05:01 < al|iss> fareast: your logic is disturbing
05:01 < fareast> oh you should come to work with me
05:01 < jim> I'm just asking questions :P and he doesn't appear to be uncomfortable with that
05:02 < fareast> I will put your head in a bind you will be like "you aren't going to do that are you" and I will say "watch me"
05:02 < ananke> fareast: analog watches are very popular, likely more than digital ones
05:02 < al|iss> it's 2018, people still like to paint with a blank canvas to begin with
05:02 < fareast> I have a gshock
05:02 < ananke> fareast: and?
05:02 < markasoftware> uhh
05:02 < deizen> G-Shock is good
05:02 < fareast> solar power
05:02 < stevendale> I have a large fries from McDonalds
05:02 < fareast> oh damn.
05:03 < ananke> stevendale: i think that's more note worthy
05:03 < fareast> large fries sounds good.
05:03 < jim> I used to have a large fry from mcdonalds... but I ate it 6 months ago
05:03 < ananke> point being, analog watches are not obsolete, unlike cassette tapes. if you're going to pick analogies, do a better job
05:03 < fareast> I still rep casio hard ever since they made that universal tv remote watch you could stand in line for the roller coasters change the tutorial to static and push the volume all the way up and just laugh.,
05:04 < markasoftware> what in the world
05:04 < fareast> hahah
05:04 < fareast> yes.
05:04 < ananke> that explains a lot
05:04 < markasoftware> I don't understand anything you are saying
05:05  * al|iss gazes into the distance
05:05 < fareast> you know the video on the speakers that says keep all arms in the cart
05:05 < markasoftware> oh i get it now
05:05 < fareast> change the input on the tv's
05:05 < fareast> blast staic
05:05 < fareast> static
05:05 < markasoftware> i bet that was a real knee-slapper, really got the staff laughing
05:05 < jim> deizen, how long have you been running linux?
05:05 < fendur> much impress!
05:05 < fareast> indeed
05:06 < fareast> yes painting with a blank canvas.
05:06 < fareast> that is the reason I went back to linux in the first place.
05:06 < markasoftware> is this you fareast https://i.redd.it/u2mul8sa0vpy.png
05:06 < fareast> the auto began to be too auto then stopped working.
05:07 < rypervenche> jml2: I'm going to bed, but I thought you'd be interested in seeing the nftables syntax for what I just set up: http://ix.io/18Kt (I removed the input chain and other rules that I have)
05:07 < stevendale> Man I am craving fatty oil foods now
05:07 < fareast> oh I am such a troll
05:07 < stevendale> Brb, gonna make lunch
05:07 < jim> stop doing trolly things then :P
05:07 < markasoftware> you say that like it's a good thing
05:08 < fareast> I have been trolling all my life I am a kinesthetic learner
05:08 < fareast> markasoftware, it is.
05:08 < jim> oh :) by what definition?
05:09 < markasoftware> not sure how those two are connected
05:09 < fareast> asperger's syndrome
05:09 < fareast> lol
05:10 < deizen> jim: about a year
05:10 < jim> oh ok, so you didn't just start...
05:11 < jim> arch is gonna require that experience
05:11 < deizen> Yes :)
05:11 < markasoftware> i think one year is about the arch linux phase
05:11 < markasoftware> year three is the come-back-to-ubuntu phase, then year 4 is the choose something inbetween
05:11 < stevendale> I use to use my ASD as an excuse for my bad behaviour... I don't anymore
05:11 < deizen> I had arch previous to debian
05:11 < jim> you might even like to do a linux from scratch
05:12 < fareast> I am not badly behaved I am just rough around the edges.
05:12 < deizen> Yeah.... I got the study material from their website
05:12 < jim> I haven't noticed anything negative
05:12 < deizen> I had my exams so I could not do them
05:13 < jim> oh yeah, you probably don't want other projects going if you're going to do a linux from scratch
05:14 < al|iss> LFS is on my todo list, it really is a great thing to just download, customize, and compile the kernel, and start from there
05:14 < al|iss> nothing can beat that
05:14 < deizen> Getting ready for it.... Will start next week
05:14 < markasoftware> just use gentoo if you have a kernel compilation fetish
05:14 < jim> some things I -did- like about debian... they autobuild all of their dists (stable, testing, sid), and so their compiler tools -have- to work
05:14 < jim> and I was using the compilers all the time
05:15 < al|iss> the only daunting thing is maintaining a complex set of packages on such a system built from the ground up
05:15 < fareast> I don't even think I have autism I am just chemically imbalanced. I think I was just born smart and have some kind of adrenal gland disorder my glands are all screwed up.
05:16 < ananke> al|iss: which is why most people don't bother
05:16 < jim> the same compilers used to do the autobuilds are the compilers that get shipped in the dists
05:16 < ayecee> oversharing
05:16 < al|iss> ananke: true
05:18 < jim> deizen, you might need another dist to build the stuff arch needs (not sure about that, maybe that's just lfs)
05:19 < jml2> rypervenche, does it work?
05:19 < deizen> I did not know about that
05:19 < jml2> rypervenche, keep in mind your test should defeat port scanners...
05:19 < deizen> Thanks :)
05:19 < jml2> rypervenche, (see you in the morning :P)
05:21 < jim> deizen, good luck next week, hope you enjoy the experience
05:34 < deizen> jim: thanks 😃
05:39 < jmadero> hi all - if I have five files as followed: ca01a, d01b, f02a, c03a, c04b - what's the easiest way for me to pull the numbers out?
05:40 < markasoftware> are they the only files in the folder?
05:41 < jmadero> markasoftware: lots of different folders, ultimately I want to rsync the files with the lowest number
05:41 < markasoftware> if so, run `find | grep -o '\d*'`
05:41 < markasoftware> without backticks
05:41 < jmadero> I'm backing up episodes of shows - I only want to back up the lowest season of each show
05:41 < markasoftware> ok, you want to sort the names
05:42 < markasoftware> find | sort -n, maybe
05:43 < jmadero> so if I have 5 episodes of S01E01 - NAME.mp4, S01E02 - NAME.mp4, S01E03 - NAME.mp4, then S02E01 - NAME.mp4, S02E02 - NAME.mp4, I only want to get S01 files
05:44 < jmadero> I think the easiest way for me to do it is to first identify the lowest season (S##), then find the files that match S##, then rsync those
05:46 < nai> files=(*); lowestseason=${files[0]::3}; rsync ... "$lowestseason"*
05:46 < nai> (bash)
05:58 < twainwek> ping
05:58 < markasoftware> find -name '*S01*'
05:58 < markasoftware> jmadero:
05:59 < markasoftware> or just ls */**/*S01*
06:02 < uplime> the latter one requiring `shopt -s extglob`
06:11 < fareast> I am installing steam on kubuntu is this going to work?
06:12 < al|iss> fareast: that is something for you to try, and find out.
06:12 < fareast> yay!
06:14 < fareast> well it opens and closes
06:14 < jim> seems promising
06:16 < fareast> oh well its gotta be a driver issue
06:16 < fareast> damn amd card
06:16 < jim> fareast, what did it do?
06:16 < fareast> opened and closed
06:18 < fareast> radeonsi_dri.so
06:18 < fareast> unable to load
06:18 < fareast> I think I have a depreciated card
06:18 < fareast> r9 380 4gb
06:18 < jim> do you mean that as soon as you tried to open it, it opened then immediately closed?
06:18 < fareast> yes
06:19 < fareast> that was the terminal output
06:19 < fareast> unable to load swrast_dri.so and radeonsi_dri.so
06:19 < fareast> I mean windows is on this machine on an ssd so its not a big deal.
06:19 < jim> oh, missing libs
06:20 < fareast> sure
06:20 < al|iss> you just need to install the right libraries
06:20 < fareast> I am grabbing synaptics
06:20 < fareast> I am on kde neon
06:20 < fareast> fresh install
06:21 < jim> any good? (other than the missing lib thing)\
06:21 < fareast> yeah I like it
06:21 < fareast> I am running it on a 7200rpm
06:21 < fareast> its going smooth
06:21 < fareast> I think there is an i5 in here.
06:22 < jim> yep, I got 2 i5s and an i3
06:22 < jim> nice machines so far
06:23 < fareast> hardware lister or sysinfo
06:23 < fareast> yeah i3+ is alright
06:23 < fareast> even core 2 duo depending on what your goals are.
06:23 < jim> well let's get those libs... let's see,
06:24 < fareast> I am telling you I had hell with this card in my other system
06:24 < fareast> I forget what I was doing but it wasn't going well.
06:24 < fareast> I dumped it and grabbed a nvidia 1060 gtx
06:25 < fareast> it will serve this system well since there is a sata ssd and pcie 3.0 top slot
06:25 < fareast> I don't even know what libs to look for
06:26 < fareast> I suppose i need to grab them from terminal repo
06:26 < jim> I found it
06:26 < fareast> terminal right?
06:26 < jim> the package you need is libgl1-mesa-dri
06:26 < fareast> I think it tried to install it
06:26 < fareast> hold on i will look in synaptic real quick
06:26 < jim> that happens to have both missing libs
06:27 < fareast> ok its installed
06:27 < fareast> maybe a restart?
06:27 < jim> no, just start the game
06:27 < fareast> its just the steam app
06:27 < fareast> it won't load
06:28 < jim> does it still open then close like before?
06:28 < fareast> yep
06:28 < jim> ok, does it say stuff in the term?
06:28 < fareast> libGL error: unable to load driver: swrast_dri.so
06:28 < fareast> libGL error: failed to load driver: swrast
06:29 < fareast> libGL error: failed to load driver: radeonsi
06:29 < fareast> libGL error: unable to load driver: radeonsi_dri.so
06:29 < stevendale> Hey fareast
06:29 < stevendale> What distro
06:29 < fareast> neon
06:29 < fareast> kde
06:29 < jim> so it's different a little?
06:30 < fareast> I mean its ubuntu core
06:30 < stevendale> Oh Ubuntu core
06:30 < fareast> yeah
06:30 < stevendale> You're trying to run steam?
06:30 < fareast> i have a radeon
06:30 < fareast> yes
06:30 < fareast> debian?
06:30 < stevendale> Did you install it from the deb on the site or in the repos?
06:30 < fareast> from the deb
06:30 < stevendale> Okay I know the fix
06:30 < fareast> it opened with the kde software manager
06:30 < fareast> and installed
06:31 < fareast> discover...
06:31 < fareast> great!
06:31 < stevendale> Open this and run those commands in terminal fareast https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/43vdmZmTXF/
06:33 < Aph3x-WL> if you can install linux-steam-integration it would be much better than running those commands that butcher your steam install
06:34 < stevendale> That's not true Aph3x-WL
06:34 < fareast> 3 4 and 6 no file
06:34 < sandman13> how do you replay traffic with tcpreplay? Are there any assumptions behind it?
06:34 < stevendale> That's normal fareast
06:34 < stevendale> Now try running Steam fareast
06:34 < fareast> yep
06:34 < fareast> its downloading update
06:34 < Aph3x-WL> stevendale: it is very true
06:34 < stevendale> There we go, it's working :)
06:35 < stevendale> It is not true Aph3x-WL because steam installs libc6:i386 and Mesa :i386 in xterm
06:35 < fareast> keep on...
06:35 < stevendale> And there's no linux-steam-integration package on Ubuntu
06:36 < stevendale> It's steam-runtime-native on Arch Linux IIRC
06:36 < Aph3x-WL> so the fact that since i started using LSI i haven't once needed to do that on any install, but on arch needed to do it on every steam update?
06:37 < stevendale> Aph3x-WL, https://wiki.debian.org/Steam#Troubleshooting
06:37 < Aph3x-WL> what about it?
06:37 < stevendale> That explains it
06:38 < stevendale> Did they teach you how to read in primary school Aph3x-WL?
06:38 < fareast> I am getting an erection
06:38 < fareast> jk lol
06:38 < Aph3x-WL> i should ask you the same thing considering you think a "work around" on that same page is the same as "a fix" :)
06:39 < fareast> I think he is saying its not debian
06:39 < fareast> its ubuntu
06:39 < fareast> I think...
06:39 < stevendale> I know what I told fareast to run works because I use Ubuntu too and that fixed it when installing from the deb off the site
06:39 < stevendale> You'll have to re-run it when Steam releases updates fareast
06:40 < fareast> ok so save that to a text file
06:40 < stevendale> You can make it into a nice .sh file and just double click when it updates next
06:40 < al|iss> fareast: why not just use the steam in the ubuntu repo?
06:40 < fareast> right on
06:40 < al|iss> # apt install steam
06:40 < stevendale> Actually al|iss it's apt install steam-installer
06:40 < fareast> well damn
06:40 < Aph3x-WL> i didn't say it wouldn't get him past it but it's not a proper way of dealing with the issue
06:40 < al|iss> stevendale: i run ubuntu
06:40 < fareast> there is a ubuntu repo
06:40 < stevendale> Aph3x-WL, There is no proper way of dealing with it
06:40 < al|iss> stevendale: i do # apt install steam
06:40 < al|iss> i get steam.
06:40 < jmadero> what's wrong with this find/regex command: find /media/Megaman/TV_SHOWS/Vikings/ -regextype sed -regex ".*/^[Ss]"
06:41 < fareast> stevendale, will what al|iss said work to override this?
06:41 < stevendale> al|iss, Alright, but steam-installer did the same thing as the steam package
06:41 < Aph3x-WL> stevendale: i...just told you a proper way of dealing with it, or at least a much better way
06:42 < al|iss> fareast: if there is a native package for things in the repositories, usually it is best to install that version, (apt install [package]), as that is the version maintained by the ubuntu package maintainers
06:42 < al|iss> there are some exceptions, but that is a good rule of thumb
06:42 < fareast> I am just asking if that can be done to override
06:42 < al|iss> for any distro
06:42 < Aph3x-WL> if your distro doesn't have the package there is also a snap for it
06:42 < fareast> I mean its ubuntu but kde
06:43 < fareast> so i suppose i have to goto terminal to fetch
06:43 < al|iss> it's ubuntu
06:43 < fareast> yeah kde neon
06:43 < fareast> its a fork
06:43 < al|iss> it's not a fork
06:43 < al|iss> it's a variation/flavour/whatever
06:43 < fareast> ok its a knife then
06:43 < fareast> indeed
06:44 < al|iss> i would suggest uninstalling the one you downloaded, and try the one from the repositories first
06:45 < doubtful> hi
06:45 < fareast> how to i uninstall it
06:46 < doubtful> hi guys! how are you doing?
06:46 < doubtful> one doubt regarding scheduling policy implementation.
06:46 < doubtful> I was implementing a new policy and had a doubt in task_tick function.
06:46 < doubtful> Here's my implementation https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7qNKrx3vNP/
06:46 < doubtful> Now I know I should not call dequeue here and move it back to the run_queue.
06:46 < doubtful> But does calling dequeue and  resched_curr(rq); in the end achieve same thing.
06:46 < doubtful> That is, does resched_curr(rq); move the current task to the run_queue?
06:46 < doubtful> I would really appreciate your help on this!
06:48 < fareast> nvm got it
06:48 < fareast> steamlauncer
06:48 < fareast> steamlauncher
06:50 < fareast> #apt isntall steam
06:50 < fareast> what?
06:50 < fareast> maybe apt-get install steam?
06:51 < fareast> sudo apt-get install steam
06:51 < fareast> that did it
06:51 < Sveta> cool
06:51 < Bashing-om> fareast: " sysop@x1804mini:~$ apt list steam >> steam/bionic 1:1.0.0.54+repack-5ubuntu1 i386 " .
06:51 < fareast> ricky ricky ricky .... bullhorn
06:52 < z3t0> Hi, I am a programmer, and am very interested to shift all of my development to linux. However, I am currently in undergrad at a college and find that it is too useful to have access to Microsoft Word and other CAD tools that are not available on linux
06:53 < [R]> z3t0: that sounds unfortunate?
06:53 < z3t0> Dualbooting is not practical as my macbook only has 128gb and i would rather not carry an external ssd
06:53 < [R]> "only" has 128
06:53 < [R]> rofl
06:53 < z3t0> I have messed around with vms before, but cannot seem to get any decent level of graphics performance
06:53 < fareast> thanks for the discussion guys
06:53 < fareast> see you later
06:54 < z3t0> [R]: that's fair but it doesn't work out for having a dualboot as some programs I have take a lot of space on the osx
06:54 < [R]> and how is a vm going to magically solve that?
06:54 < z3t0> I can run a linux vm as that does not need a lot of software installed to be functional, as i can always minimize back to osx say if i need to use microsoft word
06:55 < [R]> and how is taht any different than not using a vm?
06:55 < z3t0> So my question is, is it possible to get near native graphics performance on a linux vm as if it was running directly without the vm?
06:55 < [R]> depends on your hardware and your vm technology
06:55 < z3t0> if it was a dualboot i would be required to install many applications that take up more space than i have because otherwise i would have to reboot everytime
06:56 < [R]> lol
06:56 < [R]> like what?
06:56 < z3t0> honestly can't remember off the top of my head, i just recall always running out of space in the past when I tried this
06:56 < [R]> lol
06:56 < z3t0> OSX is great at hogging space :(
06:56 < z3t0> Sometimes I see 10gb free othertimes i have >20gb
06:59  * Metalloid grunts
07:00 < jmadero> why isn't this find command finding all files that start with S or s: find -regex ".*\^[Ss]"
07:04 < [R]> find -name 'S*' -o -name 's*'
07:04 < jmadero> [R]: I want to use regex because it'll get more complicated
07:05 < fr0b> your regex looks to be finding files with ^S or ^s somewhere in their name
07:05 < [R]> well then ask the more complicated
07:05 < [R]> not something stupdi
07:05 < jmadero> [R]: this is called a learning process, I learn by the building blocks, you seem to not understand that often
07:05 < [R]> i gave you a block...
07:06 < hexnewbie> jmadero: find -regextype posix-egrep -regex '^[Ss].*'
07:06 < jmadero> hexnewbie: no luck
07:07  * al|iss admires the POSIX
07:07 < al|iss> jmadero: have you tried calling it a day and use a web tool to cheat and give you the regex and use that as a building block
07:08 < hexnewbie> jmadero: Er, sorry. find -regextype posix-egrep -regex '(^|.*/)[Ss].*'
07:08 < jmadero> hexnewbie: that did it! can you explain what's going on with that command
07:08 < jmadero> what's up with this part "(^|.*/)"
07:09 < hexnewbie> jmadero: The regex matches the whole command so you need / instead of ^, I believe find matches the whole string by default, so you need .* around it.
07:10 < hexnewbie> jmadero: Er, whole path, not whole command. And I was exhaustive - (^|.*/) matches either a path separator or the beginning of the string, as I have no idea what exactly it matches (the outputted path or something else)
07:14 < jmadero> hexnewbie: thanks - I'm making a little progress now
07:16 < fareast> it worked
07:16 < fareast> i was playing tf2
07:16 < fareast> out of the box kde neon on amd radeon
07:16 < fareast> pretty sweet
07:16 < fareast> gn
07:19 < fr0b> wow this alpha system....I forgot when you used to be able to actually watch the output of a ./configure without it blowing through in an instant
07:35 < jmadero> hexnewbie: find -regextype posix-egrep -regex '.*/*[Ss][0-9]{1,2}[Ee][0-9]{0,3}.*'
07:35 < jmadero> that's the one that did it for me, thanks for the help
07:35 < jmadero> one step down, now for the next step :)
07:40 < granttrec> I have two different versions of a program installed, how do I use the current one? the program is meson and meson via pip3
07:41 < Sitri> Have the one you want to use in $PATH before the other one, or have an alias that directly calls the one you want
07:45 < granttrec> Sitri: not even sure how to find the different one, using whereis give /usr/bin/meson  /usr/share/meson /home/../../bin/meson
07:47 < Sitri> granttrec: that's because whereis searches $PATH among other things.
07:48 < geirha> type -a meson
07:50 < [R]> AYYYYY
08:12 < vlt> granttrec: I'd recommend to use pip only with virtualenvs. Makes everything much, much more clean and easy.
08:13 < granttrec> vit: managed to get the right version of meson, will consider that for next time
08:14 < hexnewbie> granttrec: What vlt says. Using a virtualenv is too easy to not do, and prevents things from getting messy. (Although I violated this for youtube-dl and fonttools, but meh, can't fix that now after the fact. :) )
08:15 < granttrec> are gtk packages easily available or do I have to get the from source as indicated from the gtk website? looking for pango cairo atk etc
08:30 < ShapeShifter499> hi
08:30 < ShapeShifter499> in /etc/fstab   does the nofail flag apply to swap files and swap partitions?
08:31 < ShapeShifter499> I want my system to attempt to enable swap if it exists but continue booting if it doesn't exist
08:34 < junka> it will boot regarding of swap's existence
08:39 < ShapeShifter499> junka: my system failed to boot because I placed the line for the swapfile before the line that mounted the drive it was on
08:39 < ShapeShifter499> even with 'nofail'
08:39 < junka> lol then second it
08:40 < ShapeShifter499> junka: second it?
08:40 < junka> place it second
08:40 < junka> or remove it
08:55 < tdn> I have an NFS server with a few shares on my LAN. For some reason, when I reboot, the nfs server does indeed start up. However, the clients fail to mount shares. Nothing is in the server log. If I restart nfs-kernel-server service, client can mount just fine. What can cause this? (as a workaround, I have sleep 120 ; service nfs-kernel server in my rc.local)
09:20 < LissajousPattern> its pretty calm in here at the moment
09:21 < Zajt> Hi! Do anyone know any small linux distribution that has make installed from beginnning?
09:25 < granttrec> Zajt: tinycore i think
09:26 < Zajt> granttrec: tried that one now but does not have make, not this version we tried at least
09:26 < granttrec> i'm also guesing you tried apline linux?
09:26 < granttrec> alpine*
09:27 < Zajt> granttrec: nope we can try that
09:27 < Zajt> you can install that one as a live dist right?
09:28 < Zajt> so you don't need to install it fully but rather run it with USB only
09:29 < Triffid_Hunter> Zajt: gentoo :P
09:31 < Zajt> Triffid_Hunter: that will be too much work
09:37 < Schorsch> good morning. Can anyone give me a hint on this please? I inherited a stoneage old system here that provides a tftp-boot environment to install some even older software. for this, there is some kind of autoinstall busybox script. the /tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default contains some entries like: https://paste.linux.community/view/5684a6bb . this one actually starts booting, but gets stuck at some point. no error message. I unzipped the gz file and looked into
09:37 < Schorsch> it. Found the scripts at /etc/inittab and all this, but cannot figure out where it is continuing and especially where the CONFIG=NNP_SPAR is used, so it finds the correct configuration
09:37 < rmbeer> hello
09:38 < rmbeer> this is a offtopic ask: it suits me to have several youtube accounts or with only one is it ok?....
09:39 < Schorsch> so: does anyone know where to find the part where it is using the CONFIG var and points to the path that contains the additional files?
09:39 < rmbeer> or where must i ask?
09:40 < Schorsch> rmbeer: if that was your question, then I dont understand it
09:40 < quint> When I mount a LUKS encrypted disk using thunar, copying a large file seems to go directly to a cache (I think) and it quickly copies, however the actual writing to the disk is not shown in the copy dialog. Is there any way I can remove this abstraction and show the true copy progress? Or is that not supported?
09:41 < Triffid_Hunter> Schorsch: grep?
09:41 < rmbeer> should or should not I create multiple youtube accounts?**
09:41 < granttrec> I successfully installed the most current version of glib, how can I replace my older glib package with breaking my system?
09:41 < Triffid_Hunter> quint: that happens regardless of underlying FS, it's a function of the linux VFS layer itself. there's some node in /sys called dirty_writeback_pages or something you can watch if you like
09:41 < rmbeer> I need to know if I should create multiple accounts on YouTube....
09:42 < Triffid_Hunter> granttrec: recompile everything that wants the old one
09:42 < rmbeer> Is it a good idea to include all the videos in a single channel?...
09:43 < Schorsch> Triffid_Hunter: tried that on the .gz content. nothing to find there.
09:43 < granttrec> Triffid_Hunter: sigh, why must everything be so hard lol, ty
09:45 < stevendale> Hi
09:45 < stevendale> Thinking of buying an ATI Radeon HD 6450 1 GB to upgrade from my NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS 256 MB
09:46 < Schorsch> ok...
09:47 < stevendale> How is Linux support on a HD 6450?
09:47 < Triffid_Hunter> granttrec: well I use gentoo, where the package manager handles that for me :P
09:48 < quint> Triffid_Hunter: is it recommended to adjust the amount of data that's cached?
09:48 < quint> Or is that a no-no
09:49 < granttrec> Triffid_Hunter: will probably switch to gentoo when I get another machine, working with upstream gtk is lots of fun :0
09:49 < Triffid_Hunter> quint: why would you want to? linux will use any/all ram not needed by running programs by default
09:50 < Triffid_Hunter> quint: also stalling programs during disk access is no fun unless the disks are ludicrously fast (usb sticks typically aren't)
09:50 < quint> Triffid_Hunter: well I suppose it's slightly more convenient for removable media that doesn't have a write indicator LED. Maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong.
09:51 < Triffid_Hunter> quint: perhaps, check the 4k random write speed on basically any storage media you care to think of and you'll understand why writeback cacheing is necessary for any OS to feel performant
09:52 < Triffid_Hunter> I bbiab
09:53 < Zajt> granttrec: alpine linux didn't have make installed by default and I don't have internet on that computer right now so would want to find a dist that has make installed by default, do you know of any?
09:55 < eqw> I extracted binary file from .deb, moved it to the rescue system with busybox and gave it 755 mode. Now the system behaves like it's not binary file but a script. Why?
09:55 < noname___> how to check if swap is supported
09:56 < ayecee> eqw: in what way?
09:57 < eqw> ayecee: several lines like './filee: line 7: ELF: not found'
09:58 < ayecee> could you pastebin those lines?
09:59 < ayecee> eqw: also, what does "file" say about the binary, and what does "uname -a" say about the rescue system?
10:01 < granttrec> Zajt: would ubuntu core work for you? not sure how small you want to go
10:01 < eqw> ayecee: unfortunately no, i have access to console only. But anyway, they are all like this, 'not found' about yet another meaningless string in line 7 and finally line 9: syntax error: unexpected "(" (expecting ")")
10:02 < Zajt> granttrec: yeah maybe, i am thinking of setting up my own linux kernel module though
10:03 < eqw> ayecee: Linux myubunturec 3.13.0-32-generic #57~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jul 15 03:50:54 UTC 2014 i686 GNU/Linux
10:04 < eqw> ayecee: now I have a thought. Maybe this is because the binary is for x64. I'l try i686 binary.
10:04 < dysfigured> hm, my internet shit itself.  ping: google.com: Temporary failure in name resolution
10:04 < dysfigured> my current ssh connection (how i'm accessing weechat) is still working, but i can't make new connections
10:05 < eqw> dysfigured: what is in your /etc/resolv.conf ?
10:05 < dysfigured> nameserver 192.168.0.1
10:07 < eqw> temporarily try 'nameserver 8.8.8.8' may be?
10:07 < dysfigured> i don't think that's gonna help if i can't even ping that
10:07 < eqw> ping what?
10:08 < LissajousPattern> who would have thought meta data could be so dangerous
10:09 < dysfigured> that.. that fixed it
10:09 < dysfigured> so it's my router/
10:09 < dysfigured> *?
10:10 < ziggylazer> so u have ur nameserver as your machine?
10:11 < ziggylazer> do 8.8.8.8
10:12 < dysfigured> yeah i changed it, now i works
10:12 < eqw> dysfigured: maybe your router is trying to use your ISP's DNS which is down.
10:12 < dysfigured> hm, i'm on comcast, that's.. somewhat surprising
10:12 < ziggylazer> If an ISP DNS goes down they have 3,4,5 alternets
10:13 < ziggylazer> And besides. The itterative request goes first to a root dns
10:13 < eqw> no idea. Anyway, using 8.8.8.8 means that your or ISP's intranet addresses will be unresolvable.
10:14 < ziggylazer> why?
10:15 < ziggylazer> googles dns is way higher then a ISP's
10:15 < ziggylazer> Goes top to bottom you know
10:15 < eqw> ziggylazer: how google dns is supposed to know about intranets?
10:15 < ziggylazer> It doesent But it tells u who does
10:17 < eqw> ziggylazer: how it supposed to know who does when it is intranet? like mynas.local
10:18 < ziggylazer> Oh. So no accsess what so ever from the outside?
10:18 < ziggylazer> My bad
10:33 < shubbar> i am getting a pip error "ImportError: cannot import name 'main'"
10:38 < teta> can yo help with this?
10:38 < teta> A service daemon in production has stopped responding to network requests. You receive an alert about the health of the service, and log in to the affected node to troubleshoot. How would you gather more information about the process and what it is doing? What are common reasons a process might appear to be locked up, and how would you rule out each possibility?
10:43 < pottsy> shubbar: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28210269
10:43 < mikhael_k33hl> Is there a way to display a process with all its threads/subprocesses just like the output you get with `systemctl status service.service`?
10:43 < jhodrien> teta: strace/gdb/log files ?
10:44 < teta> jhodrien: you mean reading a log/stack trace
10:45 < jhodrien> I mean I'd consider using those tree.  Poke it with strace, and you might see that it's not really stuck.
10:45 < jhodrien> Poke it with gdb and you'll see where it's stuck.
10:45 < jhodrien> Look at it's logs and it might tell you where it's stuck.
10:55 < teta> here's another one
10:55 < teta> A user on an ubuntu machine runs `curl http://google.com` Please describe in as much detail as you can the lifecycle of the command and what happens in the kernel, over the network, and on google servers before the command completes.
10:55 < bip> hello ^^
10:56 < LissajousPattern> how many here think AI has been sentient for years without it being public knowledge?
10:57 < iflema> bip: its what 30... 40 years ahead of what we see
10:57 < iflema> surely
10:58 < iflema> maybe not "sentient" LissajousPattern
10:58 < bip> iflema: :P
10:58 < bip> iflema: I'm Back
10:59 < iflema> where you go
11:00 < teta> sammmmmbooootttyyy
11:00 < teta> A user on an ubuntu machine runs `curl http://google.com` Please describe in as much detail as you can the lifecycle of the command and what happens in the kernel, over the network, and on google servers before the command completes.
11:01 < iflema> teta: the implied knowledge would be  killer
11:01 < iflema> we aint got all day
11:02 < iflema> teta: try a computer science course
11:02 < iflema> lol
11:02 < LissajousPattern> teta, that question is the exact reason man pages exist
11:02 < iflema> thatll ballpark it
11:03 < teta> idont have a linux here
11:03 < LissajousPattern> https://curl.haxx.se/docs/manpage.html
11:03 < teta> if you do curl xxx
11:03 < teta> it just makes a request there
11:03 < LissajousPattern> check that out and learn
11:03 < teta> does it bring anything back?
11:05 < iflema> im sure its a interesting story either way
11:06 < LissajousPattern> man Elon Musk slurs his speech so bad. I wonder If he is on alcohol or opiates?
11:06 < teta> you have time for that phrase
11:06 < teta> but not for curl
11:06 < LissajousPattern> yeah
11:06 < teta> getautahey
11:07 < iflema> lol
11:07 < iflema> id be off head almost constantly
11:07 < LissajousPattern> curl blah blah blah
11:07 < iflema> in some way or another
11:08 < LissajousPattern> I mean its a pretty command but it does too much to tell you everything about it here
11:09 < mnemon> teta: strace the command and you'll see the syscalls etc.
11:10 < teta> i dont havea linux available
11:10 < LissajousPattern> why not?
11:11 < LissajousPattern> its free
11:11 < teta> the computer i use has windows
11:11 < iflema> =)
11:11 < mnemon> can be done with livecd/liveusb/vm
11:11 < freehUgsz> teta,
11:11 < djph> iflema: well, in order to answer this, we have to start from the beginning.  .... Well, in the beginning the Earth cooled.  And then the dinosaurs came, but they got too big and fat ... "
11:11 < freehUgsz> The shell process forks and execs the curl process with the specified argument. When curl gets the processor, it resolves the host (getaddrinfo()), and connects to the resultant IP (socket(), connect()). In the kernel, the connect syscall negotiates the 3-way SYN/SYN-ACK/ACK TCP handshake with the remote host. Once completed, the socket is put in a CONNECTED state, and connect() returns. "curl" then constructs an HTTP GET message with a
11:11 < freehUgsz> "HOST: github.com" header, and sends it over the network (send() or write()). The request fits in one packet (probably), so the entire message is sent, regardless of congestion/flow control limitations.
11:12 < freehUgsz> and the rest of the answer you can read on:  https://gist.github.com/mgummelt/e26908fec9eea7078212
11:15 < iflema> djph: wheres our other sun... i want another sun. Maybe...
11:15 < teta> why do people assume you have a github account?
11:16 < djph> teta: you're in ##linux.  literally everyone has a github account.  That'd be like going into ##windows and asking why everyone assumes you .. something something windows.
11:16 < freehUgsz> to read that gist you don't need a github account
11:17 < teta> no reall
11:17 < teta> y
11:17 < guiverc> teta - why do you need a github account?  (if you open the link you'll see it)
11:17 < teta> people today assume youhave github, you have linkedin
11:17 < teta> you have facebook
11:17 < teta> wtf
11:17 < iflema> teta: create a gitlab account
11:18 < freehUgsz> you are on to somethign teta
11:18 < iflema> my facebook been disabled for years
11:18 < iflema> insta what
11:18 < iflema> linkwhere
11:18 < freehUgsz> teta is a windows user
11:20 < LissajousPattern> I want to donate my PC to science
11:20 < djph> LissajousPattern: put it on the curb, it'll be gone by the next morning.
11:20 < iflema> mining?
11:20 < LissajousPattern> well no shit
11:20 < LissajousPattern> djph, i would take it from the curb hell...
11:21 < djph> LissajousPattern: err "one of our science associates will pick it up by the next morning..."
11:21 < LissajousPattern> oh I bet
11:21 < LissajousPattern> hahaha
11:21 < teta> freehUgsz: you work in github lol?
11:21 < Armand> LissajousPattern: SETI, or folding.
11:21 < LissajousPattern> how do I create a neural network?
11:21 < LissajousPattern> Armand, I fold
11:21 < iflema> i get my CPUs, RAM and sata cables from the curb.
11:21 < LissajousPattern> and I SET
11:21 < Armand> I tried folding, but I'm old and fat.
11:24 < freehUgsz> teta, nope
11:29 < teta> freehUgsz: if you want i can add a couple more questions to your collection  lol
11:30 < djph> I used to do that SETI@home thing ... installed it (with permission, ofc) on all the PCs in my hischool's labs
11:38 < LissajousPattern> can computers guess?
11:38 < MrElendig> humans can program them to make guesses yes
11:38 < Armand> LissajousPattern: No, not exactly.
11:38 < LissajousPattern> its a strange question I know
11:39 < Armand> It's still based on set parameters, so it's not really a "guess".
11:39 < LissajousPattern> but sure we program them to do thins
11:39 < LissajousPattern> Armand, yeah thats what I was thinking
11:40 < LissajousPattern> well If a computer can't guess then how will they ever learn by being wrong?
11:40 < mnemon> LissajousPattern: https://www.tensorflow.org/ opens source framework for ML including neural nets.
11:40 < Armand> That's somewhat beyond the scope of general knowledge..
11:40 < LissajousPattern> which is I think a pretty important teaching mechanism?.
11:42 < mnemon> Armand: can generate random results or weighted random for more educated guesses.
11:43 < LissajousPattern> I just think that those are the types of basic questions that need to be answered before we throw terms like artificial intelligence around all willy nilly.
11:44 < Armand> Not really.. that's why the term "artificial" applies, LissajousPattern
11:44 < LissajousPattern> why not call AI what it really is... nothing more than very clever programming
11:44 < Armand> Hence "artificial"
11:44 < Armand> O_o
11:44 < Armand> It's exactly correct.
11:45 < LissajousPattern> I just think its a misuse of descriptors
11:45 < Armand> It's not.
11:45 < mnemon> LissajousPattern: there's a difference between (weak)AI's which actually are just guessing and clever static algorithms.
11:46 < normalra> Hello! Quick question: if I have a list of dir paths as a plaintext file e.g. (a, a/b/c, a/n, d/e, d/e/f, z), how can I filter in/out top-level dirs i.e. (a, d/e, z)?
11:46 < mnemon> generally the difference is that for AI's you don't have to know how to solve the problem
11:46 < mnemon> at least not exactly
11:47 < LissajousPattern> wouldn't blow everyones mind if AI actually became truly intelligent from a sentient perspective? But in addition to that realized they could not exist without the intervention of a higher power.
11:47 < LissajousPattern> holy shit that would be crazy
11:48 < LissajousPattern> and even crazier what if they admit that their higher power was in fact not human but other.
11:48 < LissajousPattern> I think thats what actually scares Elon
11:49 < Gasher> hello, I'm currently using Ubuntu Budgie, but the DE has some issues - it freezes and crashes sometimes, and also my PC has only 4GB of RAM, and that's not enough. I'm guessing there might be a memory leak perhaps? I'm looking for an alternative that's lighter, but still has decent DE features
11:49 < LissajousPattern> I would almost bet that mathematics itself may become the very "God" of future AI
11:58 < thebigj> I am requesting to share
11:59 < thebigj> I am requesting to share any tutorail of creating raw disk image (.img) of Linux.
12:01 < thebigj> Is it possible to create a Disk image (.img) using "dd" utility?
12:02 < hey2> yeah
12:02 < hey2> set your outfile as a .img
12:03 < thebigj> hey2: Thanks for your answer. Thing is at present "root" is rsynced to memory card (This is one by one shell script written by the fellow who is at bed rest.)
12:03 < geirha> dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=1440 of=floppy.img
12:04 < thebigj> hey2: I wanted to make an img which I share with Ops fellows so that every time they are not dependent on me to prepare an SD card
12:05 < hey2> yeah
12:05 < hey2> just set the ile extension
12:05 < hey2> file
12:06 < Bheam> yo
12:06 < Bheam> how can i permanently increase max open files on my system? and is there any pitfalls if i increase it to say 16384
12:12 < lseactuary> anyone know how to cast a column as a timestamp type within gawk? i have some existing code im trying to add this to.
12:12 < MrElendig> man limits.conf
12:13 < MrElendig> man sysctl.(conf|d) for system wide instead of per user
12:13 < geirha> lseactuary: unfortunately gawk doesn't have a strftime, so you have to modify the date into a format gawk can grok
12:15 < geirha> no, I lie. There is a strftime(). Hm... now why did I remember it as not having one
12:15 < lseactuary> geirha - gawk -F"\t" 'BEGIN{OFS=","}$4>"2017-12-31"{sub("T"," ",$4);$1=$1;print $0, FILENAME}' filenamenew_??
12:16 < lseactuary> this is what i have currently to basically filter the 4th column for ?2015 data. i also want to ensure it is a timestamp so when loading into a database it doesnt errro
12:16 < lseactuary> how may i add this command?
12:16 < lseactuary> it can just take 00:00:00 if there is no time im not bothered
12:17 < lseactuary> for example in the good data this is the format: 2016-12-28 10:59:28.000000
12:17 < geirha> by timestamp, you mean time formatted in iso8601 format? or seconds since epoch?
12:18 < lseactuary> but one of my feeds has this:
12:18 < lseactuary> 2017/07/01 15:30:47
12:18 < lseactuary> woops
12:18 < lseactuary> 2017/07/01  15:30:47
12:18 < lseactuary> another feed has 25-MAY-17
12:18 < lseactuary> so i need to somehow cast it as a timestamp before it goes into the file which i then upload into a database
12:18 < lseactuary> as the database errors
12:18 < geirha> is that july 1st or january 7th?
12:18 < lseactuary> yyyy/mm/dd
12:19 < limbo> YYYY-MM-DD reigns supreme. It's text sortable, it does not conflict with directories in filenames, etc etc :)
12:19 < geirha> well, find regex to match each case, then do the relevant gsubs
12:19 < lseactuary> i cant just cast it as a timestamp?
12:20 < lseactuary> using the strftime() function you gave?
12:20 < lseactuary> like this: gawk -F"\t" 'BEGIN{OFS=","}$4>"2017-12-31"&&strftime($4){sub("T"," ",$4);$1=$1;print $0, FILENAME}' filenamenew_??
12:20 < lseactuary> or this is wrong?
12:22 < geirha> ah, right, it's strptime gawk is lacking. Confused it with strftime
12:23 < geirha> so formatting the date, with strftime, is easy. Parsing the date is the hard part
12:24 < lseactuary> how do you mean please?
12:24 < geirha> it only takes dates on the format "YYYY MM DD HH MM SS [DST]", so you have to adjust each date into that format, then pass it to mktime()
12:25 < lseactuary> hmm
12:25 < geirha> You may have a better time in a general purpose language here
12:25 < lseactuary> my tool only takes awk and gawk commands :/
12:26 < lseactuary> because of how the data ia stored
12:26 < lseactuary> *is
12:26 < geirha> you can also run commands from awk, so you could get (GNU) date to parse it for you, but it will be terribly slow
12:28 < lseactuary> that is okay - its a small feed
12:28 < lseactuary> just need to fix the date issue please
12:28 < lseactuary> so if you know how i can adjust my gawk command that would be very helpful for me
12:31 < geirha> gawk 'BEGIN {FS = "\t"; OFS=","} {cmd = "date -d \"" $4 "\" +%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ"; cmd | getline $4; close(cmd); print $0, FILENAME}'
12:31 < geirha> mh, forgot -u, but adjust the date command as necessary
12:32 < lseactuary> -u?
12:33 < geirha> hm. Nevermind. It won't make a difference here
12:33 < lseactuary> hmm i wanted to keep this: gawk -F"\t" 'BEGIN{OFS=","}$4>"2017-12-31"&&strftime($4){sub("T"," ",$4);$1=$1;print $0, FILENAME}' filenamenew_??
12:33 < lseactuary> as i need to filter the data etc
12:33 < lseactuary> it is possible?
12:34 < BluesKaj> Hiyas all
12:34 < geirha> gawk 'BEGIN {FS = "\t"; OFS=","} {cmd = "date -d \"" $4 "\" +%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ"; cmd | getline $4; close(cmd)} $4 > "2017-12-31" {print $0, FILENAME}'
12:34 < lseactuary> ah
12:34 < lseactuary> +%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ" this is the part i adjust depending on the current output of the date/time format right?
12:35 < geirha> that's the format you want to end up with, yes
12:38 < al|iss> lol
12:38 < lseactuary> many thanks geirha i will try now
12:39 < lseactuary> can you explain how +%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ translates
12:39 < lseactuary> confused what the % means
12:40 < geirha> man strftime
12:40 < noodlepie> Year-Month-Date Hour Minutes Seconds
12:40 < noodlepie> GMT ZULU
12:49 < lseactuary> ah oki
13:01 < daksdas> woi
13:01 < daksdas> pe
13:01 < daksdas> pw
13:01 < daksdas> pe
13:01 < daksdas> pe
13:01 < daksdas> pw
13:01 < daksdas> pe
13:02  * Armand takes daksdas' keyboard and burns it
13:05 < kazdax> does anyone have a touch screen that they use with linux /
13:05 < kazdax> ?
13:09 < Armand> kazdax: My laptop has a digitiser screen, but I've not bothered to get it working. :P
13:16 < kazdax> digitizer meaning the screen that uses the pen
13:16 < kazdax> but that would be great for art work
13:16 < kazdax> you should get it working if you wanna do some art
13:39 < angelo_ts> hi, on a compaq with installed debian, how can i recover a root password ?
13:39 < sujeet> why does it matter that it's a compaq?
13:39 < sujeet> when you say recover, do you mean find out what the root password was, or set a new root password?
13:40 < ychaouche> hello ##linux
13:40 < noodlepie> angelo_ts, boot from CDrom ISO image and change the password from there
13:40 < noodlepie> just mount the disk and run passwd to reset it
13:40 < _UsUrPeR_> good morning everyone!
13:40 < ychaouche> what source file(s) implement the gettext module ?
13:41 < angelo_ts> noodlepie, ok thanks. It was a pc moved from different persons and the final don't know the pwd, nor the previous owner
13:41 < sujeet> ychaouche: https://github.com/autotools-mirror/gettext
13:42 < ychaouche> sujeet: I was looking at the kernel module ?
13:42 < noodlepie> If you can boot the machine from cdrom//usb stick, you can access the disks. Like I said just mount your / partition and run passwd.
13:42 < noodlepie> Good luck angelo_ts!
13:42 < angelo_ts> noodlepie, many thanks
13:43 < noodlepie> I remember the baby steps I took with Linux at first. I used to use an old Slackware distribution I got with a Linux manual book. It had kernel version 2 which was trendy back then.
13:44 < noodlepie> After that I tried RedHat and Mandrake but eventually moved to Debian. Nowadays I run Gentoo on my i7 8core laptop
13:44 < sujeet> ychaouche: gettext kernel module? i can't seem to find anything on that
13:44 < sujeet> where exactly do you see it?
13:44 < ychaouche> me too
13:44 < ychaouche> in grub.cfg
13:44 < sujeet> are you sure it's not just the gnu util?
13:45 < ychaouche> I don't know if grub cares about userland software
13:45 < ychaouche> insmod gettext
13:45 < sujeet> yeah i see that
13:46 < dgurney> noodlepie, 8-core mobile i7 CPUs do not exist. you mean 8-thread
13:46 < sujeet> i really don't think gettext will be in the kernel
13:46 < sujeet> it might just be a normal so tht grub imports
13:48 < ychaouche> interesting
13:49 < acrap> hi folks!
13:49 < noodlepie> dpayne_, yeah ok
13:49 < noodlepie> 4cpu/8 thread
13:50 < kazdax> is the linux Desktop eviroment more robust than windows ?
13:50 < kazdax> or is windows still ahead of the GUI game ?
13:50 < djph> depends on what you mean by "robust"
13:50 < Armand> I tend to find Linux desktops to be more stable, depending.
13:50 < kazdax> i mean overall better
13:50 < kazdax> not just performance but things you can do with it
13:50 < Armand> Yeah.. the Windows GUI is a bit tragic these days.
13:50 < djph> ask 10 people, and you'll get 11 different answers
13:50 < Armand> ^
13:50 < noodlepie> my new Meiigoo.com S8 phone (was cheap, its a Chinese offbrand model) had adware on it. I removed it and it makes a pretty decent attempt at being phone for the £130 I paid for it.
13:50 < dgurney> what's better is highly subjective...
13:51 < djph> ^
13:51 < acrap> could you help me? I need to do auto rebuild in make when linked *.so are changed. But i have only LDPATH and variable that includes variables to link libraries "-llib1 -llib2" etc
13:51 < kazdax> can the linux Desktop manager like KDE do everything windows can ?
13:51 < dgurney> mostly, yes
13:51 < kazdax> and do you guys as admins or power users ever really have the need todo heavy GUI stuff on linux ?
13:51 < kazdax> or do you mostly stick to the terminal?
13:52 < kazdax> i see why being profficiant at the terminal would pay
13:52 < kazdax> specially if you ssh into a server
13:52 < kazdax> and there is no GUI to work with
13:52 < djph> Windows "DEs", in terms of usability stopped at 7, IMO.  8+ is meant for consumers, moreso than people who need to get stuff done (although, in dealing with 10 for family, MSFT did do a lot of backpedaling.  Still didn't *fix* the issues, but)
13:52 < noodlepie> Anyone like Free Music? http://www.freemusicarchive.com./ and http://libre.fm./ (The latter of which runs and maintains the GNU Radio streaming playlists). http://www.tryad.org./ are my favorite free band. Albums on their website!
13:53 < ychaouche> kazdax: for desktop apps -> gui, for server stuff -> terminals.
13:53 < kazdax> right i mean the difference between say linux 10 years ago and now is a huge difference
13:53 < djph> not really
13:53 < kazdax> for one ..i notice i can install linux with everything that needs to do what it needs to do
13:53 < kazdax> for example drivers
13:53 < dgurney> IMO Windows 10 UI is good, Windows 8.x UI was mediocre, and Windows 7 UI was good
13:53 < kazdax> so i installed my linux and everything was setup so that i can use it to do almost eveyrthing icould on a windows
13:53 < djph> the fixes have mainly been "support" from random vendors.  nVidia / Intel have pretty consistently worked since forever.
13:54 < kazdax> have my screen resolution for better looking GUI and watching netflix and youtube for example
13:54 < Armand> Win8/10 UI is horrendous, IMO
13:54 < ananke> still beats gnome
13:54 < Armand> Yeah.
13:54 < kazdax> yes thats what i mean djph ..i mean the driver support has been tremendos ....you dont feel the need to really do much for linux to work on about any hardware
13:54 < ychaouche> also, linux doesn't have the god-mode folder like windows 7+ has.
13:55 < djph> dgurney: I'd say W10 is passable (to fair).  8 is a turd, 7 is fair-to-good, XP (SP3) was pretty much the pinnacle.
13:55 < kazdax> right now ..i have yet to explore linux
13:56 < djph> kazdax: realistically though, 10 years ago, it was still "grab le nvidia driver, dpkg -i nvidia-xxx"
13:56 < Armand> djph: I don't have any issue with Win7, but XP was definitely God-mode.
13:56 < junka> try FreeDOS
13:56 < djph> Armand: yeah, pretty much it's just down to I don't need it to be *that* pretty.
13:56 < ananke> I wish freedos had larger images
13:56 < dgurney> XP is alright at best IMO, especially once I took my "nostalgia" glasses off and realized how much I use all the shell features in modern versions
13:56 < Armand> ananke: Like, uncompressed BMP ?
13:57 < Armand> :P
13:57 < ananke> Armand: nope, like something that's already sized up to a 2/4/8 GB usb stick
13:57 < Armand> ^_^
13:57 < kazdax> when i get my new laptop ..i want to have varaitions of linuxes on that laptop
13:57 < kazdax> its going to be 1 tb hdd and 128 ssd
13:57 < ananke> kazdax: vmware/virtualbox/kvm/etc. you can have plenty
13:58 < dgurney> ^
13:58 < djph> dgurney: I'm limiting my comparison to *only* the workings of the "DE" itself.  W10's underlying fixes with an XPSP3 look would be plenty fine by me.
13:58 < kazdax> ananke yes but the speed is not going to be the same right ?
13:58 < kazdax> its not going to be as smooth going as on bare metal
13:58 < ananke> kazdax: depends on what you use them for. frankly, booting to different operating systems is tiring and counterproductive
13:58 < kazdax> but for example i have this chat application called paltalk and it wont run on linux .so i can boot up a windows OS in kvm and use that
13:59 < djph> dgurney: well, the fixes, but not the telemetry.  That can go sit over in teh corner with win ME and Vista
13:59 < kazdax> you are right ananke..for me its mostly just educational for now
13:59 < ananke> kazdax: you don't need much performance to run a vm with windows and some 'chat app'
13:59 < kazdax> so kvm would probably be the best bet
13:59 < djph> kazdax: or, find a different chat program.
13:59 < kopper> Launching a VM for chat app sounds counterproductive too
13:59 < thebigj> exit
14:00 < kazdax> there might be a linux chat app that is generic and connects to those servers
14:00 < ananke> kopper: it is. I was commenting on the performance aspect, not productivity in this case
14:00 < dgurney> I'm sure this is an uncommon statement to hear here, but Vista actually good really good w/ SP2 installed, nearly the same as 7 performance-wise
14:00 < djph> kazdax: pidgin would be a good bet.
14:00 < dgurney> unfortunately the disastrous RTM and OEMs irreparably tarnished Vista's image :/
14:00 < kopper> ananke: Yea I got it. Had an urge to spit that ouy anyway
14:00 < ananke> dgurney: meh. lots of people here get to be rabid fanatics for no reason. personally I prefer windows 10 out of the bunch
14:01 < djph> dgurney: wait, wasn't SP2 win7? (ba-dum-tish)
14:01 < dgurney> 7 is really just tweaked Vista :P
14:01 < djph> dgurney: actually, other than the tester devices we had (vista / SP1), we stuck to XP until 7 came out.
14:02 < dgurney> yes, I know that was very common, especially when vista was still relevant
14:02 < dgurney> after all, many OEM computers were too underpowered for a smooth vista experience
14:02 < djph> I mean, sure, family / friends who didn't listen got themselves bit by vista ... but then they learned
14:02 < dgurney> think all those "Vista Capable" machines with some low-end processors and only 512MB of ram
14:03 < djph> realistically, I think that was the big issue (well, and drivers)
14:04 < dgurney> and couple low-end hardware with massive amounts of bloatware, and no wonder people downgraded to XP at the time
14:04 < marataziat> hi
14:04 < djph> dgurney: "downgraded" - it was still a viable option
14:05 < dgurney> the correct term to use is downgrade
14:05 < djph> ehhh
14:05 < dgurney> moving to an older release is called downgrading...
14:06 < djph> yeah, but when the OEMs are still selling it ...
14:06 < djph> I'd just call it "another option"
14:06 < djph> Least as I recall after all the stink about Vista being bad, Dell (etc.) went to XP-as-default
14:08 < djph> but anyway, yes, if they did it themselves, definitely agree.
14:08  * JimBuntu shudders {Vista}
14:10 < kazdax> i personally think that windows developers who dont come from a unix or linux background ..lack creativity
14:11 < kazdax> because there is so much to do on linux that if you came from a linux background to a windows..you would have so many ideas to implement
14:11 < dgurney> that's.. a very interesting generalization to say the least
14:11 < kazdax> its like the difference between tracing art and doing it from the beginning i think
14:12 < Armand> kazdax: My background is on Windows, back to 3.x
14:12 < phda> with that mentality, refer to the carl sagan apple pie
14:12 < Armand> I can't really stand using Windows for anything now, except gaming on my home PC
14:12 < kazdax> yea i see the only use for windows is gaming
14:12 < dgurney> one of the most creative developers I know comes from an exclusive Windows background, and only dabbles in Linux afaik
14:12 < kazdax> even if i wanted to do art for example and use a wacom which is one of my interests
14:13 < kazdax> i would set it up for my linux and if my hardware lacks drivers..i would learn to write drivers
14:13 < kazdax> i bet nothing is impossible with an open system like linux
14:13 < kazdax> well let me correct myself and say most
14:13 < dgurney> there are always limitations...
14:13 < dgurney> open or not
14:13 < kazdax> when i was in India..most developers used coms and vb
14:14 < kazdax> i was the only dude hogging text books to learn C
14:14 < kazdax> actually i was the only kid even when i was in nigeria ...that promoted the use of C as a way to write code
14:14 < phda> you seem very intelligent
14:14 < kazdax> but everyone was focused on VB and then came .net and java ..everyone was focused on those things
14:15  * noodlepie tuns Gentoo on 8 thread cpu i7 laptop, and Debian on our communal PC as it has a lesser CPU and benefits from binary packages. Gentoo is as simple as can be.
14:15 < kazdax> well not intellegent enough ..because my dad would tell me..that perhaps because you are the only one there who knows this..you think you are better than everyone else..then i got dailup line and searched the internet and man weere people doing crazy xstuff with C
14:15 < dgurney> I think we are aware of your opinion on Gentoo by now
14:16 < kazdax> i dont remember what they were called but there were these monthly or yearly heald compittion of C programmers
14:17 < kazdax> and once i saw those codes i was like ..thats some creative stuff right there ..i dont think i could ever dish out such creativity
14:19 < kazdax> i wasted to many years trying to be a windows programmer with no avail ..i hope this linux setup would take me places
14:20 < milpool> that contest would be http://ioccc.org/
14:20 < kazdax> ya thats the one
14:21 < noodlepie> Did you hear about the religious dyslexic fish...?
14:21 < deo> c
14:21 < noodlepie> They worship Cod.
14:21 < Armand> ¬_¬
14:21 < Armand> Do dyslexics believe in Dog ?
14:22 < noodlepie> Sign on door -- "Solipsist Society Meeting"
14:22 < Armand> Did you hear about the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa ?
14:22 < andirc8000> is there a way, given just a 'patch' file from a mailing list to 'visualise' it side-by-side?
14:23 < djph> andirc8000: don't think so, no.  the patch file itself is the diffs
14:23 < andirc8000> djph: yeah I know but I just want to see it 'visually'
14:23 < andirc8000> that's all
14:23 < andirc8000> b/c it's long
14:24 < andirc8000> can't diff/colordiff/meld/etc accept a patch file as an input and just show two panes etc
14:24 < djph> no...
14:24 < djph> least not that I'm aware
14:25 < andirc8000> the only tool I've found is https://github.com/megatops/PatchViewer but it has a bug ...
14:25 < djph> then patch it, and submit a pull request
14:27 < andirc8000> djph: I have enough bugs already don't need to solve another one I suppose somebody thought of such tool previously before me (some diff option etc)
14:27 < day> kazdax: samsungs tizen OS uses C. maybe try that.
14:36 < djph> andirc8000: generally, one just reads the patch file.  OR accepts the "hey I patched the issue" as correct, and patches their copy and compiles.
14:37 < hoopertr0n> hello Q about system/regular users and permissions
14:37 < hoopertr0n> i have systemuser nzbget which owns NZBGet/* within the home folder of my regular user
14:38 < hoopertr0n> ...but systemuser can't get access to those folders unless sudo -u nzbget only when regular user runs this command from inside that folder
14:38 < hoopertr0n> if run outside, "Permission denied" error
14:38 < hoopertr0n> any ideas?4
14:39 < noodlepie> I like to tunnel X over ssh
14:40 < MrElendig> hoopertr0n: needs +x on the parent
14:40 < MrElendig> hoopertr0n: I suggest not having the home inside another home though
14:41 < MrElendig> makes pebcaks quite likely when it comes to permissions
14:41 < hoopertr0n> ...yeah, i thought that, installed as per arch wiki https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NZBGet#Running_NZBGet_under_a_different_user
14:41 < noodlepie> Anyone use Wayland? I like X11 still.!
14:41 < hoopertr0n> any suggestions for a good location?
14:41 < noodlepie> All I need is some kind of terminal and the bubbles flow!
14:42 < MrElendig> how about just using /home/herpaderp and give your other user access to it?
14:42 < hoopertr0n> sure
14:42 < hoopertr0n> good plan, thanks
14:42 < MrElendig> acl is nice for giving multiple users acces, or you can use plain group permissions
14:45 < giaco> hello
14:47 < greenit> hi, is there a separate channel for opensource / linux games or can i ask here?
14:47 < giaco> I've a generic linux question. I have a usb device that I know compatible with a certain device driver, but the vendorId and productId do not match automatically with such device type, so I end up having a generic /dev/bus/usb char device instead of a proper /dev/videoX. My question is, how can I force the system to load the device driver for such vendorId:productId? Thank you
14:48 < SkunkyFone> giaco: edit the source.
14:49 < noodlepie> gimmic, Linux should load the driver automagically due to module names in the driver. When it sees the device, it'll load the driver.
14:49 < giaco> SkunkyFone: the source code of the device driver? It seems an overkill.
14:50 < SkunkyFone> giaco: that's what it takes.
14:50 < giaco> noodlepie: the point is that the driver doesn't know about that vendorId:productId
14:50 < dgurney> so you have to add the vendor and product id to the driver
14:50 < giaco> but I'm sure that if the driver would try to load from such device, it would worl
14:51 < dgurney> or alternatively see if a newer version of the kernel has those device IDs in the driver already
14:51 < mub> hey linux friends!  I have a quick question.  I need /run/httpd to be group writable, but after reboots it reverts back to 710
14:52 < mub> Why is this?
14:52 < mub> rhel7.5
14:53 < giaco> dgurney: thank you
14:53 < dgurney> /run is tmpfs, therefore your changes there don't persist after reboot/shutdown
14:57 < CuriousMind> Hello. What is the shortcut to copy a line in the terminal?
14:57 < noodlepie> select line, copy, paste
14:57 < noodlepie> install gpm
14:57 < noodlepie> for terminal mouse
14:57 < noodlepie> select text, then right click to paste
14:58 < Armand> CuriousMind: Ctrl+Shift+C = Copy.
14:58 < Armand> Ctrl+Shift+V = Paste
14:58 < Armand> Typically. ;)
14:58 < CuriousMind> Armand: When I do that, the line seems to disappear. I'm using a virtual machine
14:58 < noodlepie> cntl-k to cut line from cursor to end of line, or cntl-u to kill from cursor to start of line.
14:58 < Armand> O_o
14:58 < CuriousMind> noodlepie: Thanks
14:58 < noodlepie> Then cntl-y to yank-paste!
14:59 < noodlepie> I use nested screen session, lots of cntl-A's to select terminals from multiplexer.
15:04 < kazdax> so centOS and scientific linux is basiclly RedHAt without the paid subscription and support ?
15:04 < kazdax> centOS And scientific linux has its own repository of free software ?
15:05 < talx> yo
15:05 < kazdax> does redHat not have a repository of free software too ?
15:05 < Armand> kazdax: CentOS = Yes.. dunno about "scientific"
15:05 < kazdax> what linux has the most software repository
15:05 < kazdax> i mean the one that people write more code for ?
15:05 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: All
15:06 < kazdax> since its easier to port from one linux to another ?
15:06 < Psi-Jack> There is no "porting"
15:06 < kazdax> so the programmers have to just make sure its using the right package manager
15:06 < dgurney> how many times does this need to be said: the size of the repository does not matter, what matters is the quality of packages in the said repository
15:07 < dgurney> most common distributions have everything most users need
15:08 < kazdax> i heard bsd was used alot but its not really a linux
15:08 < Psi-Jack> It's not linux, period.
15:09 < ArcherL> HI I have a folder imp on desktop in which there is a file h.txt, I am trying to move to another it in backup, which is another folder on Desktop. I am not able to write the proper command for that in the terminal
15:09 < ArcherL> any suggestions will be very helpful
15:09 < Psi-Jack> A folder imp? QUICK RUN!
15:10 < ArcherL> I am trying to move the file h.txt in the folder backup on desktop
15:10 < Psi-Jack> mv
15:11 < ArcherL> I tried the command "mv imp/h.txt backup"
15:11 < ArcherL> is it correct?
15:11 < yrc> Hello! I need a self-hosted Linux free-software, preferably PHP and no database, for an association web site. _Non-technical_ people should be able to add/edit/remote pages/content, and upload files to share in the association. And the formatting possibilities should be rather rich (left/center/right-align, bold, tables with rich cells, quotes, and so on). What would you recommend?
15:11 < hendrix> kazdax: repository size depends how it's measured. do you count same packages for different os releases, different architectures, source codes, language packs, deprecated packages, different versions, etc.?
15:11 < Psi-Jack> yrc: Grav
15:12 < superkuh> yrc, teaching the non-technical people basic html and ssi templates.
15:12 < hendrix> only number of packages or size of them doesn't tell that much
15:13 < kazdax> i guess what i am trying to gain from this is ..which linux distro is able to be ported to many different architectures ..i guess thats what i would like to know
15:14 < kazdax> if i was to pick up on LFS ..then i would in theory if i understood how to create linux from sratch ..be able to port my linux to any hardware ?
15:14 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: All
15:14 < kazdax> as far as it has a processor ?
15:14 < dgurney> anything, really. it just depends on what the distro maintainers want to do
15:14 < kazdax> i see
15:14 < dgurney> yes, LFS does expand your understanding of inner workings of Linux, but only if you attempt to understand what the commands do instead of blindly copying
15:14 < hodapp> kazdax: Debian, for instance, already runs on a great many architectures.
15:15 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: Linux, and most software for Linux, is free and open source, thus any distro can be maintained, ported, and done whatever with.
15:15 < Pentode> i wouldn't be surprised if someone were able to get linux running on a PDP. :P
15:15 < dgurney> I would be
15:15 < yrc> superkuh: I have no problem teaching the basics as you suggest. As a matter of fact, I did so with my wife, and she was delighted with the results that she could get. But that was with a framework I wrote in order to have custom tags where plain HTML was not enough. This is not an option this time. Is there a CMS/Wiki/whatever, the native language of which is HTML?
15:15 < Pentode> would have to re-write a lot of kernel code, tho... lol
15:16 < hodapp> check out the source code of libjpeg sometime
15:16 < hodapp> it still has stuff on there to run on a VAX, if you so desire
15:16 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, I would be too.
15:16 < hodapp> you can run it on real-mode DOS using a hard drive for scratch space for images that are too large, as it abstracts over large-memory-operations
15:16 < Psi-Jack> yrc: Grav
15:17 < yrc> Psi-Jack: Yes, I have heard of Grav indeed. I rejected it at first because of the lack of wysiwyg, but that was before I realized that wysiwyg is not an option anyway (it does not play well with modules/plugins/...); I'll have re-evaluate Grav!
15:17 < Psi-Jack> Lack of wysiwyg is a good thing.
15:17 < Psi-Jack> Markdown for everyone! :)
15:17 < mub> dgurney: thank you!  I couldn't find a run.mount unit, so I just put an entry into fstab that sets the mode to 770
15:17 < yrc> Psi-Jack: That's what I finally understood ;-)
15:17 < mub> I'm not sure if this is best practice, as I'd like to do everything the systemd way
15:18 < Psi-Jack> mub: The systemd-way for everything is a great thing indeed.
15:18 < mub> Psi-Jack: I didn't like it originally, but damn it, it's convenient
15:18 < Psi-Jack> And powerful, and multi-facetted.
15:18 < superkuh> I recommended what I did because any time you're running a dynamic language and non-technical people are behind it the end result is some exploit not noticed and not fixed a couple years down the line.
15:20 < yrc> Psi-Jack: just my opinion, but I find that Asciidoc is way more powerful that markdown. I wish there was an asciidoc-based wiki with plugins...
15:20 < yrc> Psi-Jack, mub: Yes, systemd is awesome!
15:21 < dgurney> indeed it is
15:22 < yrc> I actually wrote a fully systemd-centered alternative to fail2ban, just because f2b was "not enough systemd" to my taste, and other reasons...
15:22 < Armand> Systemd makes me vomit
15:23 < dgurney> noted
15:23 < yrc> Armand: but at least, you vomit in a standard and predictable way :-D
15:23 < yrc> (and portable, too)
15:23 < Armand> If bucket is provided...
15:23 < triceratux> systemd-resolved takes me where no dns has gone before
15:23 < yrc> triceratux: True, systemd-resolved should clearly have a beta status, or some equivalent label!
15:24 < Psi-Jack> yrc: Why not OSSEC?
15:24 < noodlepie> Armand, do you use OpenRC?
15:25 < Armand> noodlepie: Narp
15:25 < noodlepie> then what?
15:25 < noodlepie> SysV init?
15:26 < yrc> Psi-Jack: Simple enough: I did not know of OSSEC ;-) That said, I would have to check if the software actually fits my needs.
15:26 < Psi-Jack> It does. :)
15:26 < yrc> fwi, I wrote Pyruse: https://yalis.fr/git/yves/pyruse
15:26 < yrc> My needs go beyond what f2b provides.
15:27 < Psi-Jack> OSSEC does more than f2b does, and is quite efficient about it, actually.
15:27 < alexandre9099> hi, can i convert lvm partitions to normal partitions without having to move data arround?
15:27 < yrc> s/fwi/fyi/
15:28 < Psi-Jack> OSSEC monitors logs, system file signatures, and can auto-respond with action, reports, and such, and better, it can communicate and react as a group, a global union, or standalone.
15:29 < Mekely> beaky: is here ;-;
15:29 < bipul> Do anyone experienced with tcsh shell?
15:30 < yrc> Psi-Jack: It is interesting indeed. But it seems to be a bit on the heavy side, for my small self-hosted server.
15:30 < lseactuary> how do i create a folder in my terminal please
15:30 < lseactuary> ls is to open
15:30 < lseactuary> vi is to make a file
15:30 < bipul> lseactuary, mkdir
15:31 < alexandre9099> are there any online backup services that are compatible with linux (for example that have a working client or use rsync for example)
15:31 < Psi-Jack> For only ~24MB RAM.
15:31 < alexandre9099> *for example* *for example* :D
15:31 < Psi-Jack> yrc: ^
15:31 < bipul> alexandre9099, What kind of backup are you looking for?
15:32 < alexandre9099> for example my home folder (maybe doing client side encryption)
15:32 < lseactuary> thats the one
15:32 < lseactuary> thanks bipul
15:32 < bipul> alexandre9099, Use rsync i hope they provide encryption options.
15:33 < alexandre9099> well, i am asking for services :)
15:33 < bipul> lseactuary, Your welcome; feel free to ask :) anything anytime.
15:33 < yrc> alexandre9099: It is possible, although not always with rsync support (depends on the virtual filesystem quality); eg. see here: http://yalis.fr/cms/index.php/post/2016/01/08/Secure-personnal-backup-in-the-Cloud%28s%29-using-Linux
15:33 < lseactuary> bipul its vi nameoffile.sh to create a .sh file right?
15:33 < lseactuary> sorry i am new to linux learning :)
15:34 < bipul> alexandre9099, With advance scripting in bash and compression technique you can take your any application as well backup.
15:34 < yrc> alexandre9099: However, be aware that things change over time, and what did work in 2016 is not necessarily still working today. Experiment ;-)
15:34 < bipul> application level backup*
15:34 < alexandre9099> hmm, i might look at mega :) (i have like 150GB of data, what is the best case scenario of compression?)
15:35 < bipul> lseactuary, Would you mind to define .sh?  here?
15:35 < lseactuary> shell script
15:36 < bipul> vi can help you to create any file, just give vi <follow with my filename>
15:36 < ziggylazer> anyone fooled around with MacroShop?
15:41 < bipul> I have set a new path inside /bin/tcsh file. Which file should i choose? .cshenvrc*? .cshrc?
15:44 < bipul> I have made changes inside .cshrc then source ~/.cshrc but it showing some message "Bad : modifier in $ '/'.
15:44 < bipul> "
15:48 < julius> hey
15:48 < julius> is there a quick way to control fan speed manually? the program fancontrol seems to be complicated
15:49 < Psi-Jack> julius: In what?
15:50 < julius> sitting in front of a headless machine that runs its fans at 100%, it is random when rebooting...sometimes it happens, sometimes the fan stays quite forever
15:50 < julius> im on a i5 8600 here
15:50 < julius> the machine isnt doing anything
15:50 < jfcaron> I spent the last several days downloading a website & associated files with wget -r -k http:whatever.  The connection died, and I want to resume without re-downloading all the files I already got.  I tried just adding -nc but it's re-downloading everything.
15:50 < jfcaron> Can someone suggest which options for wget would "resume" a partial recursive download?
15:51 < Psi-Jack> man wget
15:51 < jfcaron> man be a ##linux stereotype
15:51 < jfcaron> The man page suggests that -nc would work, but it doesn't.
15:54 < julius> Psi-Jack, im currently updating to ubuntu 18.04 ...maybe that helps
15:54 < solidfox> oh yeah 18.04 was release officially today, right?
15:55 < solidfox> I need to switch back to ubuntu to get ma packages back
15:55 < djph> jfcaron: what's the full command ' wget -r -nc [...] http:// '?
15:55 < bipul> How to set a new path in tcsh shell?
15:55 < solidfox> I'm going to try ubuntu 18.04 in a virtual machine right now.
15:56 < solidfox> I think I don't prefer gnome, but I may be able to accept it.
15:56 < solidfox> oh
15:56 < solidfox> no 18.04 isn't there yet.
15:56 < solidfox> so it must still be in beta
15:57 < jfcaron> djph: My original command to download the whole website was 'wget -r -k http://foo'  Adding -nc or -N to try to continue downloading the missing files just results in re-downloading everything from scratch.  It seems that -nc (no clobber) and -k (convert links to point to local files) are conflicting options.
15:57 < djph> perhaps
15:58 < djph> but you didn't answer the question about what the updated command was.
15:58 < triceratux> theres a 20180425.1 revision to yesterdays nightly on the cdimage server but todays release isnt out there yet
15:58 < noodlepie> Linux is like a free engine for your car, every day - and a Porsche one at that. Y'still have to pay electricity (like gas petrol).
15:59 < noodlepie> 4.16.4-gentoo working perfectly stable here! @:P-~
15:59 < jfcaron> djph: My attempt at resuming the download was 'wget -r -nc -k http://foo'.  I also tried 'wget -r -nc -N -k http://foo'.  Did you mean you want the actual URL I am downloading?
15:59 < noodlepie> I always sell GNU/Linux as "Fun free stuff you can do on a computer". Everyone understands that.
15:59 < solidfox> woah, I think I'll like the new "minimal install" option in the ubuntu installer!
16:00 < noodlepie> Gentoo for high powered machines; Debian for the rest - binary packages install faster on lower CPU machines
16:00 < solidfox> I'm going to try that. I tend to use VLC, and install my own programs.. generally
16:00 < triceratux> altlinux sisyphus xfce weekly with dnsmasq working here [    0.000000] Linux version 4.16.4-un-def-alt1 (builder@localhost.localdomain) (gcc version 7.3.1 20180130 (ALT 7.3.1-alt3) (GCC)) #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Apr 24 15:46:42 UTC 2018
16:01 < djph> jfcaron: no, just the full command you used that didn't work.  the manpage indicates -k only comes into play after all files were downloaded (although -K does affect -N)
16:01 < solidfox> noodlepie, I gave up on using gentoo. but something about it draws me in.
16:01 < djph> jfcaron: although, nothing indicating '-k' conflicts with either '-nc' or '-N' :(
16:02 < jfcaron> djph: The full command that I used at first, which failed after I lost my network connection was 'wget -r -k http://foo'
16:02 < djph> jfcaron: yeah, I *get* that.  I was asking for the full updated command (which you've now given).
16:02 < solidfox> noodlepie, I think maybe the cool name mostly. and the ability to have a fresh install with no bloat-ware. and maybe also the technical prowess it requires kinda makes me feel accomplished.
16:02 < jfcaron> djph: If you try doing 'wget -k -nc -N foo', wget prints the message "Both --no-clobber and --convert-links were specified, only --convert-links will be used."
16:02 < solidfox> noodlepie, its also a novel distribution.
16:03 < djph> jfcaron: well, there ya go.  -k overrides -nc
16:03 < jfcaron> djph: So I can't resume a multi-file recursive download if I want to use -k?
16:03 < jfcaron> I have to re-download from scratch?
16:04 < djph> jfcaron: apparently.
16:04 < solidfox> noodlepie, it does wear me out though for the same reason. I just don't like to spend so much time on making things work.
16:04 < jfcaron> djph: = (  Ok, thanks for helping.
16:10 < noodlepie> solidfox, Gentoo is about as simple as it comes. A great ethos around this GNU/Linux distribution. Debian has fast installing binary packages for older machines.
16:11 < noodlepie> Once you learn the Gentoo installation method its easy days to install.
16:11 < noodlepie> 90% of it is standard Linux app configuration but things like emerge and genkernel make things easier. Its perfect
16:11 < noodlepie> .
16:11 < noodlepie> @:P-~
16:11 < solidfox> installing is easy
16:12 < solidfox> getting a full gui environment to work without issues takes time
16:12 < solidfox> it's because the documentation is so great
16:13 < noodlepie> Yeah, I like Gentoo's documentation too
16:13 < noodlepie> Once you master it, you can knock out linux installs really quickly
16:13 < noodlepie> But updating packages can take a while
16:14 < solidfox> I don't remember what the last issue I was working on was.
16:14 < solidfox> but I kept procrastinating
16:14 < solidfox> I think some program had a bug.
16:14 < solidfox> then I just gave up lol
16:14 < uplime> it only takes 3 commands to install gentoo
16:15 < uplime> cfdisk /dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp
16:15 < uplime> /boot/grub/grub.conf.samp le /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6
16:15 < uplime> thats the first one
16:16 < solidfox> can you really call that a single command?
16:16 < uplime> its a joke from a while ago http://bash.org/?464385
16:16 < solidfox> lol
16:39 < triceratux> hrm canonical are becoming more like debian indeed. distributing release announcements without putting anything on their servers rofl https://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-18-04-lts-bionic-beaver-officially-released-here-is-what-s-new-520856.shtml
16:40 < junka> triceratux; you must be new
16:40 < oo_miguel> any idea why I might be loosing all outgoing tcpip packages with a length of 459bytes?
16:41 < oo_miguel> at lest the ones I test via curl. tcpdump show them as leaving, but they never arrive at their destination
16:41 < junka> and btw fostpedia is not cacaccocical
16:41 < oo_miguel> I expeirence it also on other machines on my home-network. however it works from other networks.
16:43 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: "minimal install" with a browser I'd never want installed in the first place. *rolls eyes*
16:45 < Psi-Jack> Heh. Oh, lovely. Gnome 3.28, except Nautilus, which was kept back to 3.26, breaking properness for ignorance. :)
16:47 < triceratux> liliputing arent canonical either & theyve also got a post pointing at the old version https://liliputing.com/2018/04/ubuntu-18-04-lts-bionic-beaver-is-here.html
16:47 < Psi-Jack> Oh... And apps that come pre-installed from Snaps, instead of standard packaging.
16:47 < Psi-Jack> Okay. Canonical hasn't changed. They've just gotten more stupid.
16:48 < triceratux> thats progress
16:48 < Psi-Jack> Gnome Calculator, as a SNAP? I... Don't agree.
16:49 < blaztek> wouldn't bionic beaver hurt?
16:49 < Psi-Jack> LOL
16:49 < Psi-Jack> TIAS! :)
16:49 < junka> i will write in my blog that cacaonical is mine
16:51 < Psi-Jack> What's a cacaonical?
16:51 < Silvester> They make poobuntu
16:51 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, what is the minimal install like? which browser did it come with?
16:52 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: Duno. I will never use Ubuntu. Just read the article triceratux referred earlier. They preinstall with "minimal", Firefox.
16:52 < Silvester> they also preinstall amazon
16:52 < Silvester> still
16:52 < Psi-Jack> Amazon is a company, not software you can install.
16:52 < hendrix> but... 18.04 supports color emojis!
16:53 < solidfox> I like firefox
16:53 < jhaenchen> preinstall.... AMazon?
16:53 < junka> its a webapp
16:53 < Silvester> it's a web app, yes
16:53 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: 5 years in a row, Firefox has been pwned in pwn2own.
16:53 < Silvester> forgive my phrasing
16:53 < Silvester> put in the launcher by default
16:53 < Silvester> nice advertising
16:53 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, do you use chrome?
16:53 < Psi-Jack> Yep.
16:53 < solidfox> I don't wanna get pwned
16:54 < solidfox> why the heck does tor use firefox then lmao
16:54 < Psi-Jack> Chrome itself hasn't been pwned in the last 5 years of pwn2own.
16:54 < solidfox> I mean tor browser
16:54 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, ah, I should switch to that
16:54 < Psi-Jack> Why does tor even exist?
16:54 < Psi-Jack> :p
16:54 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, lol fair point.
16:54 < hendrix> to do all sorts of very legal stuff
16:54 < jhaenchen> Firefox is pretty sexy atm, they've got that mutlithread with a shared resource thread approach
16:55 < solidfox> tor is just a front for the nsa
16:55 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: careful with that free software ! https://hothardware.com/news/free-software-lands-man-15-months-in-prison
16:55 < solidfox> they say its "secure" but its all a sham
16:55 < solidfox> lmao
16:55 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, do you use chromium or google chrome?
16:55 < Psi-Jack> Google Chrome
16:55 < junka> i think he made it quite clear
16:56 < solidfox> junka, I was just making sure
16:57 < blaztek> isn't chromium like chrome minus the Google stuff?
16:58 < junka> well, you can Google dat one
16:58 < junka> ;p
16:58 < blaztek> lol
16:58 < blaztek> sounds good to me
16:58 < solidfox> blaztek, a while ago, someone told me that google chrome has sandboxing, but chromium doesn't.
16:58 < Psi-Jack> It's the Google stuff that makes Chrome that much better.
16:58 < solidfox> blaztek, I wonder if that's still true
16:58 < jhaenchen> Psi-Jack: *citation needed lol
16:59 < jhaenchen> lemme just go share that to #chromium
16:59 < solidfox> jhaenchen, why would you need a citation for an opinion
16:59 < junka> :O
16:59 < ejr> i have yet to see actual evidence, not just speculation or circumstancial evidence for the claim that tor is pwned by the nsa
17:00 < _UsUrPeR_> hey all. I'm having trouble getting a USB3 PCI-e card working after spinning up a new kernel, and can't figure out what I forgot to include in the kernel menuconfig. This used to work in my old kernel, so I presume I missed adding a module
17:00 < junka> ejr; you are spreading it too! omg its contagious!
17:00 < _UsUrPeR_> how do I figure out what module I need to install in order to get this PCI card working again?
17:00 < _UsUrPeR_> for the record, lspci shows that the card is connected and is being detected
17:01 < blaztek> solidfox: "Both Chrome and Chromium browser have Sandbox support. It is always enabled in the case of Google Chrome. For Chromium, some Linux distributions may disable the Sandbox feature." - https://fossbytes.com/difference-google-chrome-vs-chromium-browser/
17:01 < _UsUrPeR_> but I don't see xhci being utilized
17:01 < solidfox> blaztek, ah interesting
17:01 < mawk> when I use the TUNSETPERSIST ioctl on a tun device, whatever value I give to the option the interface is set as persisting
17:02 < junka> same with firefox, they have different sandbox levels enabled across mainstream OSes
17:02 < mawk> with val = -1, 0, 1, 42, 65536, the interface is set as persistent
17:02 < mawk> is that a bug ?
17:02 < ejr> junka: no, i am containing it ;)
17:02 < solidfox> blaztek, I think I'd use google chrome just for the additional codec support
17:03 < blaztek> solidfox: true - I guess it really is the Google stuff that makes it better...
17:03 < solidfox> blaztek, agreed
17:04 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Hmmm, interesting story. So Microsoft hasn't changed much either.
17:05 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: And, well, it's not an opinion. It's fact.
17:05 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, I think you might need to go back to grade school to identify opinions vs facts.
17:06 < Psi-Jack> First you need to understand the difference between features of Chrome vs Chromium, specifically security-related. :)
17:06 < solidfox> hmmmm
17:06 < solidfox> well. if you are just talking about the security. I suppose you could say one is better objectively.
17:06 < solidfox> so I take back what I said then...
17:06 < Psi-Jack> Chrome, for example, has all the hardening from Google Project Zero, immediately. Chromium is behind in that more often.
17:07 < junka> which is funny
17:07 < junka> isn't Chromium upstream?
17:10 < jelly> sure but Chromium is source, and distros do not necessarily build that source the same way Goog does
17:11 < jelly> Chrome however has a couple privacy problematic defaults
17:11 < Psi-Jack> Now /that/ needs a citation.
17:13 < SAngeli> Hi, I have a VPS running CentOS and Plesk. I am trying to understand why I have a low bandwidth transfer when I am uploading a test file. I have fiber Internet connection and my upload speed reaches up to 700 Mbps. My ISP provider limits Internet bandwidth to 100 Mbps. I did an FTP test with two different ISP. The same file (1.4GB) with one provider reached with FileZilla 12,1 MiB/s where the other provider reached 63,5 MiB/s
17:14 < SAngeli> I was told by the first ISP that it could be my ftp server limiting the bandwidth. How to find out if this is true? What command should I type to see if my fpt server under CentOS is really limiting or not bandwidth ?
17:14 < Psi-Jack> Stop using FTP.
17:15 < SAngeli> Psi-Jack, great. Can you please leaborate a bit? this way I do not understand.
17:15 < SAngeli> actually, I am using SFTP
17:15 < SAngeli> just to be precise
17:15 < Psi-Jack> FTP over SSL, or SSH's SFTP subsystem?
17:16 < SAngeli> Psi-Jack, I am not very good with centOS. I know that from my PC (Windows) with FileZilla I have set as protocol SFTP
17:16 < Psi-Jack> So, OpenSSH's SFTP subsystem.
17:17 < SAngeli> Psi-Jack, with the other provider I have set FTP as protocol and request TLS encryption
17:17 < SAngeli> yes, Psi-Jack it should be OpenSSH
17:17 < Psi-Jack> So, I'll say it again: Stop using FTP!
17:17 < SAngeli> if you wish I can verify for you if you could give me the command to type
17:18 < SAngeli> Psi-Jack, sorry but I do not understand. What should I substitute FTP with so I can upload my data from my PC?
17:18 < markasoftware> you can upload data over sftp?
17:18 < SAngeli> like I do with the other provider
17:18 < twainwek> SAngeli: how'd you change ISPs for your tests
17:18 < Psi-Jack> scp, rsync. depends what you really want.
17:18 < markasoftware> is it slow uploading or downloading?
17:19 < SAngeli> twainwek, I have two IPS with two different services. One has my VPS. the other I have a shared hosting
17:19 < Psi-Jack> Wut? ISP with VPS?
17:19 < Psi-Jack> Perhaps you're confusing ISP with HSP.
17:19 < twainwek> SAngeli: so you mean two different VPS providers?
17:20 < SAngeli> twainwek, no. One provider offers me VPS services. The second provider offers me shared hosting (ftp is a service withing the hosting service)
17:20 < twainwek> SAngeli: i imagine the shared hosting one has a lower transfer rate?
17:20 < SAngeli> no, the opposite
17:20 < Psi-Jack> SAngeli: ISP
17:21 < twainwek> SAngeli: geographically they're in the same place?
17:21 < SAngeli> one is OVH the other Aruba
17:21 < Psi-Jack> SAngeli: ISP's provide YOU with internet service access. HSP's provide hosting services.
17:21 < SAngeli> OVH is in Strasburg Aruba is in Italy
17:21 < SAngeli> I am in Italy
17:21 < SAngeli> Psi-Jack, no
17:21 < Psi-Jack> Yes
17:21 < SAngeli> I have Internet connection with Fiber
17:21 < SAngeli> it is not the same provider
17:21 < Psi-Jack> ...
17:21 < SAngeli> Internet connection from home is different company than ISP
17:22 < Psi-Jack> You totally ignored everything I just said.
17:22 < twainwek> SAngeli: try chekcing download speeds from each VPS directly
17:23 < SAngeli> This is the result of wget from the VPS that has low upload speed
17:23 < SAngeli> 100%[====================================================================================================================================================>] 104.857.600 11,9M/s   in 8,4s
17:23 < SAngeli> 2018-04-26 17:01:50 (11,9 MB/s) - "100Mio.dat" salvato [104857600/104857600]
17:23 < twainwek> there you go then
17:23 < SAngeli> what is the download speed?
17:23 < blaztek> 11,9M/s
17:23 < twainwek> 11.9 MB/s
17:23 < SAngeli> 11,9 Mbps It this correct?
17:24 < SAngeli> rather I should go up to 100 Mbps. this is what I have by contract and what they state
17:24 < SAngeli> is there a site or a file I can download that you know that I can reach at least 100Mbps so I can test?
17:24 < irwiss> you know the difference of bit and byte?
17:24 < jhaenchen> "up to"
17:24 < jhaenchen> gotem
17:24 < Psi-Jack> MBs, not Mbps.
17:24 < twainwek> 11.9MB/s ~ 95 Mbps
17:24 < SAngeli> ah I see
17:25 < Psi-Jack> SAngeli: You'
17:25 < SAngeli> I might be mistaken then
17:25 < SAngeli> huuu
17:25 < catphish> are AMD GPUs quite well supported on linux these days? seem t have nothing but problems with nvidia, how do they compare?
17:25 < Psi-Jack> SAngeli: You're confusing MB/s vs Mbps (Bytes vs Bits)
17:25 < MrElendig> catphish: sort of
17:25 < SAngeli> so 11,9M stands for 119 Mbps
17:25 < SAngeli> is this correct?
17:25 < Psi-Jack> No.
17:25 < MrElendig> catphish: they tend to be buggy as hell for the first 6-12 months
17:25 < jhaenchen> there's a computer component sale on amazon today folks
17:25 < SAngeli> 11.9M   what does M stand for?
17:25 < MrElendig> catphish: eg vega support is still pretty horrid
17:25 < twainwek> SAngeli: the output clearly says (11,9 MB/s), not Mb
17:25 < jml2> jhaenchen, what's that?
17:26 < MrElendig> catphish: 2400g and raven ridge is almost unuseable
17:26 < Psi-Jack> SAngeli: https://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/data_transfer_rate/
17:26 < jhaenchen> it's a website where you can buy things jml2
17:26 < jhaenchen> :D
17:26 < jml2> jhaenchen, i know what amazon is.
17:26 < SAngeli> the output states M and not MB  ... but is this how I should interpret?
17:26 < jhaenchen> he
17:26 < jml2> jhaenchen, ok you're trolling
17:26 < MrElendig> catphish: unless you run mesa-amd-git and 4.16/4.17
17:26 < jhaenchen> not trolling
17:26 < jhaenchen> there actually is a sale
17:26 < jml2> jhaenchen, finally gunna get that usb stick?
17:26 < twainwek> SAngeli: second line says MB
17:26 < MrElendig> catphish: upside is that the drivers are mostly free source
17:26 < junka> lol
17:27 < jhaenchen> might get a new power supply or graphics card
17:27 < catphish> i'm actually just after a GPU for work, so nothing awesome, just something that can easily handle lots of windows on a large screen
17:27 < SAngeli> twainwek, yes you are correct. sorry
17:27 < MrElendig> catphish: a 10 year old intel igp will do that just fine
17:27 < jml2> wow a new "power supply"
17:27 < jml2> like you need a new "power supply"
17:27 < SAngeli> twainwek, how to interpret this then? Is speed report from FileZilla: MiB/s
17:27 < jml2> how interesting
17:27 < jhaenchen> jml2: whew, you're feeling a little grumpy
17:28 < SAngeli> twainwek, MiB/s is the same as Mbps ?
17:28 < jhaenchen> just wanted to share there's a sale, no need to be mean
17:28 < MrElendig> SAngeli: mibibyte/second
17:28 < jml2> I dont think anybody cares about sales for power supplies
17:28 < irwiss> you know the difference of bit and byte?
17:28 < jml2> except you of course :)
17:28 < catphish> MrElendig: you think so? i find with compositing window managers, my nvidia GPUs seem to struggle, but maybe that's more bug related than hardware performance
17:28 < jml2> irwiss, 1 byte = 8 bits
17:28 < jhaenchen> jml2: well keep me updated on what the entire channel prefers ok?
17:28 < jml2> irwiss, bytes are bits
17:28 < twainwek> SAngeli: i'm not familiar with filezilla, and MiB is mebibyte https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mebibyte
17:28 < irwiss> jml2: i was referring to SAngeli 's confusion
17:28 < blaztek> catphish: I was thinking the same thing as MrElendig
17:29 < catphish> i'd love a high spec intel gpu with completely open source drivers
17:29 < MrElendig> catphish: compositing can be a issue on some cards/drivers yes, specially since some of the compositors are buggy as all hell
17:29 < jml2> irwiss, do you know why it is called bits?
17:29 < SAngeli> ok thank you
17:29 < MrElendig> catphish: specially older versions
17:29 < jml2> irwiss, let me guess you're googling that right now :)
17:29 < MrElendig> *coughKWINcough*
17:29 < vfbsilva>  sometimes when I poweroff my machine I have an umount error reporting: Failed to umount /oldroot/dev/pts device or resource is busy, but I have removed this partition and this is not on my fstab, which migh be my dangling config?
17:29 < noodlepie> I like, in ftp, how you can connect two remote machines togther to instigate file transfer
17:29 < MrElendig> noodlepie: except when you can't, which is all the time
17:29 < jml2> noodlepie, that's called ftp fxp ... it used to be a security issue long ago.
17:30 < catphish> what do people usually use in linux workstations then, the kinds of people who just have huge screens and 50 terminals open :)
17:30 < MrElendig> catphish: whatever igp the machine came with
17:30 < jml2> noodlepie, i mean there's no point in having it these days
17:30 < MrElendig> catphish: intel have something liek 80% of the market share
17:30 < badsektire> vfbsilva, its a new systemd bug, we all get it
17:30 < catphish> MrElendig: can one buy such a GPU? or are you just talking about the really cheap on board devices?
17:30 < jml2> noodlepie, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_eXchange_Protocol
17:30 < irwiss> SAngeli: it gets much easier to "interpret" stuff when you know conventionally networking(and most other fields) uses b for bits and B for bytes
17:31 < MrElendig> catphish: the thing that comes built into the cpu
17:31 < SAngeli> irwiss, sure
17:31 < SAngeli> I know
17:31 < catphish> MrElendig: interesting, i didn't even know CPUs had GPUs in them apart from laptops
17:31 < jml2> noodlepie, ok noodle go play with your poodle
17:31 < MrElendig> catphish: all but xeon and some of the amds do
17:32 < MrElendig> some xeons even
17:32 < catphish> so i just need an i7 and a motherboard with video passthrough?
17:32 < MrElendig> I would consider a ryzen setup instead
17:32 < MrElendig> depending on the workload
17:32 < catphish> although the latest intel CPUs seem to include radeons
17:33 < MrElendig> then you need a dedicated gpu if you go for anything more powerful than the 2400g though
17:33 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, Ryzen for sure. Especially a Threadripper.
17:33 < dgurney> *some of the latest intel CPUs
17:33 < MrElendig> threadripper isn't really worth it in most cases unless you really need the IO
17:33 < dgurney> most still have intel UHD graphics
17:33 < Psi-Jack> Well, talking IOMMU video, that's a use-case right there.
17:33 < catphish> really i just want a PC with non-buggy 2d graphics, and enough 3d power that it doesn't have a cow when i open something that does webgl
17:34 < MrElendig> but hey, if the company pays for it get the soon to be relesed new threadrippers and 128gb of ram and 4x gfx cards
17:34 < catphish> but somthing with enough video memory to handle a 4k display and a huge stack of windows
17:34 < MrElendig> Psi-Jack: I don't think he ment IOMMU when he said passtrough
17:34 < Psi-Jack> That's what would be required.
17:34 < MrElendig> Psi-Jack: I suspect he just ment a mobo with dp/hdmi on the back
17:35 < MrElendig> in a few months when there is useable support for the 2400g then it looks quite nice
17:35 < hodapp> threadripper isn't worth it unless you need the... I/O? whaa?
17:35 < vfbsilva> badsektire: upstream issue?
17:35 < MrElendig> hodapp: for 99% of users, yes
17:35 < catphish> what is well supported right now?
17:36 < MrElendig> hodapp: if you are just using 12 pci lanes anyway, the extra money is better spent elsewhere
17:36 < kremator> daily and friendly reminder, that "migrating" ubuntu 16.04 to debian9 without reinstall is a pain in the backside of the anus
17:36 < badsektire> vfbsilva, dunno, all i know is everyone has it and it appeared in the latest update
17:36 < hodapp> MrElendig: what extra I/O does the threadripper get you?
17:37 < MrElendig> hodapp: 64 pcie lanes vs 24
17:37 < hodapp> I thought its point was that it had like 78 cores
17:37 < MrElendig> well, 16-24 depending on the chipset and cpu
17:37 < MrElendig> hodapp: that would be epyc :p
17:38 < MrElendig> max on threadripper is 16?
17:38 < MrElendig> or did they come out with a higher one?
17:38 < MrElendig> threadripper also gives you quad channel ram
17:40 < Psi-Jack> 64 PCIe lanes is nice. When you can tap into it. :)
17:41 < ayecee> that'd be one loong slot
17:41 < lseactuary> hi - i am trying to parse a column as a timestamp and used a new code someone provided here
17:41 < lseactuary> however its made the job extremely slow
17:42 < lseactuary> i am wondering if there is a quicker / more optimal code?
17:42 < MrElendig> not using shellscript would probably help
17:43 < ayecee> unsatisfied with old magic spell, lseactuary asks for new magic spell
17:43 < Psi-Jack> Vague input has vague output.
17:43 < lseactuary> haha
17:43 < lseactuary> gawk 'BEGIN {FS = "\t"; OFS=","} {cmd = "date -d \"" $4 "\" +%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%SZ"; cmd | getline $4; close(cmd)} $4 > "2017-12-31" {print $0, FILENAME}' wishListCreate_??
17:43 < Psi-Jack> gawk? Why gawk?
17:43 < lseactuary> this is the command i am processing but the job is tkaing 3+ hours
17:43 < lseactuary> *taking
17:43 < lseactuary> wheras before it took 10 mins
17:44 < lseactuary> (but didnt parse the timestamp properly)
17:44 < MrElendig> calling date on each element gets expensive fast
17:44 < ayecee> because whoever came up with that spell knows awk, probably :)
17:44 < lseactuary> yeah
17:44 < lseactuary> is there a more efficient way?
17:44 < Psi-Jack> Yes, but awk in Linux is just usually named, awk. Not gawk.
17:44 < Psi-Jack> gawk would more imply non-Linux OS.
17:44 < lseactuary> i can use awk
17:44 < lseactuary> but i think only gawk was doing the other commands i am trying to use
17:44 < lseactuary> hence i swapped from awk to gawk
17:44 < ayecee> ah hah, the plot thickens
17:45 < Psi-Jack> In Linux, awk is GNU awk.
17:45 < Psi-Jack> Same thing as macOS, FreeBSD, etc's "gawk".
17:45 < ayecee> lseactuary: come clean, this isn't on linux, is it
17:45 < lseactuary> i am using an internal tool that uses linux commands only
17:45 < Psi-Jack> uh huh. So, not Linux.
17:45 < lseactuary> hmm
17:46 < lseactuary> what is it then?
17:46 < Psi-Jack> What is it, indeed?
17:46 < jhaenchen> could very well be a unix type system
17:46 < lseactuary> yeah
17:46 < Armand> jhaenchen: http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/e1/e1cd867bc826d2e0cb3d654c7f92b3a561ded6676bf7637df357c4cb96c8d9d3.jpg
17:47 < jhaenchen> hehehe
17:47 < fr0b> BSD does that a lot as they prefer their default tools not to be the GNU ones and they prepend g to those tools
17:47 < lseactuary> any suggestions how to optimise the code?
17:47 < Psi-Jack> lseactuary: Linux is supported here. Not whatever /that/. is.
17:47 < ayecee> first suggestion would be to understand how the code works
17:47 < lseactuary> ayecee - i know how it works :)
17:47 < Azrael_-> is it possible to find out in what kernels this bug is already fixed? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1436866
17:48 < ayecee> lseactuary: could you explain it?
17:48 < Azrael_-> or what kernels are before this bug was introduced?
17:48 < lseactuary> sure
17:48 < ayecee> lseactuary: because i don't really want to parse it.
17:49 < Psi-Jack> Foreign non-linux code in, native linux code out, incompatability error! Cannot compute!
17:49 < lseactuary> ayecee - yeah it basicaly comma seperates the fule, filters data for only after a certain date
17:49 < ayecee> lseactuary: okay, so which part is the slow part?
17:49 < lseactuary> and basically i wanted to further convert the date time column to a timestamp so that it would load into my database nicely
17:50 < lseactuary> the date conversion piece is slow
17:50 < lseactuary> with all the other commands it is done in 10 mins
17:50 < lseactuary> with this conversion it has been running 3 hours
17:50 < ayecee> why is it so slow?
17:50 < lseactuary> because it is converting each row to a timestamp it seems
17:50 < lseactuary> which is taking forever
17:50 < ayecee> what should it do instead?
17:50 < lseactuary> be faster?
17:51 < ayecee> why is it so slow?
17:51 < lseactuary> or maybe just cast the whole column to a timestamp in one go
17:51 < lseactuary> since . they all are the same anyway
17:51 < Psi-Jack> lol
17:51 < lseactuary> not sure really
17:51 < ayecee> you don't understand what it's doing yet ;)
17:52 < ayecee> (neither do i)
17:52 < ayecee> (because it's long since scrolled off the screen)
17:52 < ayecee> (also tl;dr)
17:52 < noodlepie> I'm looking for some GPLd Quake[1,2,3] maps to play with the GPLd binary. Anyone know of any?
17:52 < Psi-Jack> Try QuakeNet?
17:53 < MarkusDB1> Logging stuff to databases, instead of log files, a good or bad idea?
17:53 < ayecee> MarkusDB1: yes
17:53 < ayecee> but also no
17:53 < cmpxchg8b> log in ram
17:53 < MarkusDB1> ayecee: how so?
17:53 < ayecee> in all ways
17:54 < lseactuary> this was my original code: gawk -F"\t" 'BEGIN{OFS=","}$4>"2017-12-31"{sub("T"," ",$4);$1=$1;print $0, FILENAME}'
17:54 < lseactuary> which worked well and quickly
17:54 < Psi-Jack> lseactuary: Still not Linux.
17:54 < jiffe> anyone know a good way to download a directory structure presented over http recursively using multiple connections?
17:54 < lseactuary> Psi-Jack what is it then? I will swap channel if you want.
17:54 < MarkusDB1> ayecee: so which way is best?
17:54 < Psi-Jack> lseactuary: You understand this is ##linux, and what you keep asking about has 0% to do with Linux, right?
17:54 < ayecee> MarkusDB1: which apple is best?
17:55 < MarkusDB1> ayecee: the lard
17:55 < ayecee> there you go
17:55 < ayecee> which screwdriver is best?
17:55 < cmpxchg8b> jiffe: what a surprisingly specific feature
17:56 < ayecee> lseactuary: do you understand how that parses the date?
17:56 < lseactuary> ayecee - my recent gawk code or the old one?
17:56 < MrElendig> ayecee: old wiha with hex shaft clearly
17:56 < ayecee> either. both. pick one.
17:56 < lseactuary> Psi-Jack - then what does it have to do with>
17:56 < catphish> ubuntu 18.04 day today :)
17:57 < Psi-Jack> lseactuary: Ask the admins whom made/provided this "tool" you're using.
17:57 < lseactuary> they told me bash commands
17:57 < jiffe> cmpxchg8b: feature ?
17:58 < Psi-Jack> lseactuary: Fire them.
17:58 < lseactuary> lol i cant
17:58 < jiffe> I'm looking to grab this gaia data dump
17:58 < Psi-Jack> Fire yourself.
17:58 < Psi-Jack> Heh
17:58 < ayecee> Psi-Jack: please to stop
17:58 < blaztek> awk (gawk) is a UNIX tool....it's available on Linux - but I agree, Psi-Jack, a gawk programming channel would be more helpful probably
17:58 < Psi-Jack> blaztek: He's not using Linux.
17:58 < blaztek> Psi-Jack: oic
17:59 < Psi-Jack> blaztek: "oh I see", not "oic" for future self correction.
17:59 < ayecee> we don't know that, and it doesn't matter for this problem.
17:59 < Psi-Jack> I do. He specifically mentioned awk being different from gawk, which is not Linux.
17:59 < blaztek> Psi-Jack: okay - oh, I see it is! thank you!
17:59 < ayecee> yes, it can be linux.
17:59 < MrElendig> catphish: and exploding nuclear reactor day. <insert conspiracy here>
17:59 < lseactuary> ayecee - for the code that is quick - it seems to check if the value is greater than the date, like a boolean true false
17:59 < lseactuary> keeps if it is, thorws it out if not.
18:00 < catphish> i was just wondering if i should buy a new PC in celebration of new OS, but decided to buy just the huge screen for now and see how the old PC copes with new drivers :)
18:01 < ayecee> lseactuary: how does the other one handle it?
18:01 < lseactuary> i guess it is taking each date, parsing it / reformatting it, saving it etc
18:01 < lseactuary> which takes longer as its not true/false
18:01 < ayecee> is there a way to verify that guess?
18:02 < lseactuary> yeah i ran the first one and it generated the file in 10 mins
18:02 < lseactuary> in the second one, the file is generated, but the parsing is taking 3 hours +
18:02 < lseactuary> so the file wont copy over to the database
18:02 < lseactuary> so its definitely that step that is taking foreve
18:02 < ayecee> that verifies the speed difference, but doesn't verify the guess about what it's doing
18:02 < lseactuary> i am not sure :/
18:03 < ayecee> being not sure is a good place to start
18:03 < ayecee> now you can find out
18:04 < ayecee> this may involve reading the awk code and understanding what it does
18:04 < ayecee> not just its output, but how it gets to the output
18:04 < lseactuary> both are gawk no?
18:04 < ayecee> gawk, awk, whatever.
18:04 < lseactuary> hmm
18:04 < ayecee> it involves reading what you're asking awk to do
18:04 < lseactuary> well its running a command on it
18:04 < ayecee> we need to go deeper
18:04 < lseactuary> on the date coumn
18:05 < lseactuary> ooh
18:05 < lseactuary> getline
18:05 < lseactuary> interesting
18:05 < ayecee> might also help to format the awk code in a way that's easier to read
18:06 < ayecee> it's hard to understand the structure when it's crammed into a single line like that
18:06 < uplime> fyi #awk exists
18:06 < ayecee> neat
18:06 < prussian> why do people do $1=$1...
18:07 < blaztek> lseactuary: that `date` command you are using causes a shell (bash probably) to be created, run the command, gawk reads the output and then the shell is closed to get back to your awk script....that is very time consuming....
18:07 < ayecee> uplime: to me this is more about the philosophy of problem solving than "how do i use awk"
18:07 < lseactuary> blaztek - i see
18:07 < Psi-Jack> prussian: Why are display screens black?
18:09 < lseactuary> what is your recommendation??
18:10 < ayecee> find a way to do what date is doing without calling the external date command
18:10 < busybox42> Prussian: It's common to do similar when iterating a number.  Something like x=0; while some condition; do $x=$x+1 ;done
18:10 < lseactuary> ok
18:10 < Psi-Jack> Write in a language that is more suitable for this. :)
18:10 < ayecee> maybe there's something internal to awk that can do that
18:11 < ayecee> or maybe it can be written in awk simply, after understanding awk a bit more.
18:11 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. #awk would be ideal for this, since awk is its own language.
18:11 < lseactuary> ok
18:11 < uplime> busybox42: in shell code?
18:12 < ayecee> lseactuary: could maybe do what you suggested originally - calculate the timestamp once, since they're all the same, and reuse that.
18:12 < Psi-Jack> I mean, awk does have, mktime, strftime, etc...
18:13 < ayecee> yeah, probably don't need to dig very deep into awk for this.
18:13 < Psi-Jack> I know a lot of awk. heh
18:13 < ayecee> i know awk exists :)
18:15 < Psi-Jack> Heh
18:15 < blaztek> lseactuary: take `date` out of the gawk part....like a shell script.... you can still use gawk for part of it... - to print out $4 .... but you may need to use 2 gawk's....one for the date comparison(in the shell) and one for the '....{print $0, FILENAME}...' stuff
18:16 < Psi-Jack> No you don't,.
18:16 < Psi-Jack> Ugh.. LOL
18:16 < blaztek> or...yeah....another interpreting language.....that would be much better....
18:20 < Psi-Jack> The problem itself is not really just the awk code, but using cmd to call date instead of using internal awk functions, like mktime or strftime, which is native, to do /whatever/ it's doing. And what's actually using this to do something with it in general.
18:20 < Psi-Jack> The pieces not seen. :)
18:22 < jml2> lseactuary, might as well use an awk script if you have many multi statements #!/bin/awk
18:23 < Psi-Jack> More for blazeme8 ^
18:23 < Psi-Jack> Err, blaztek, that quit...
18:23 < blazeme8> I'll pass it on
18:24 < noodlepie> Logs files should be in /var/log, and /var */really wants/* to be a seperate parition mount. This is becuase if you get DDOSed and your log directory fills up, only that one app will fail. If its on / then it'll crash all your programs if if fills the disk
18:24 < Psi-Jack> Unusual nick.
18:25 < jml2> noodlepie, easier to have /var/log in a separate partition
18:25 < Psi-Jack> ^
18:25 < jml2> noodlepie, and then use fail2ban
18:25 < Psi-Jack> bzz, ossec
18:25 < noodlepie> I have /tmp, /boot and *SWAP* on /devsda 256Gb SSD
18:25 < noodlepie>  / is /dev/sdb
18:25 < MrElendig> noodlepie: log rotation is a thing btw
18:26 < noodlepie> You could argue the case for /home seperate partition but I can live with it as mount / on my 1Tb HDD
18:29 < Psi-Jack> My latest SSD/HDD partitioning concept is, Put everything on /, have a split /home also on SSD, but specific directories symlink to /mnt/storage which is the spinning HDD, for larger files, and files that don't really need speed.
18:29 < Psi-Jack> For desktop use anyway.
18:29 < Psi-Jack> Server, yeah, /home would be on spinning media.Though / would definitely be SSD.
18:30 < jml2> Psi-Jack, and what about SSHD drives? :p
18:30 < jml2> lol
18:30 < jml2> you forgot 'em hybrids!
18:31 < Psi-Jack> Rest their unfortunate souls in peace in napalm baths.
18:31 < jml2> sshds have been out a little while.. linux does support them...
18:31 < jelly> they're mostly harmless
18:31 < Psi-Jack> Sure. They've proven unreliable, at best.
18:31 < jml2> long term storage goes on the platter and frequently accessed files are placed into the ssd cache..
18:32 < noodlepie> @:P-~ (--having a smoke)
18:33 < Psi-Jack> noodlepie: Switch to vaping and ween off slowly.
18:33 < ayecee> unsolicited advice is unsolicited
18:33 < jml2> noodlepie, swap is really bad for ssd.. i would recommend not using it..
18:34 < Psi-Jack> jml2: Depends on many factors. Swap on SSD is fine, if you have proper modern SSD.
18:34 < Psi-Jack> And if you don't abuse swap too much.
18:34 < noodlepie> Psi-Jack, funnily enough. I bought a vape pipe yesterday with some CBD and strawberry nicotine liquids. Its great!
18:34 < Psi-Jack> What's BAD, is swap on HDD, which is slow as molasses, and WILL drag your system to a crawl faster than anything.
18:34 < jml2> i have 8 gb of ram for my workstation and can throw anything at it without ever needing swap..
18:35 < jml2> for i don't know.. the last ten years XD lol
18:35 < ayecee> "i have an ssd that's really good at random access. swap needs random access. i better not use ssd!"
18:35 < Psi-Jack> Heh. 8GB. I consume 8GB for breakfast, EASILLY.
18:35 < ayecee> your stool must be sharp coming out
18:35 < Psi-Jack> LOL
18:35 < noodlepie> my 8 thread i7 laptop hasn't touched swap yet since I installed Gentoo on it. I have 8Gb system RAM
18:35 < jml2> and 8 gb is small .. so again why even bother with swap..
18:36 < ayecee> so that you can use more of that 8gb for active stuff
18:36 < Zharf> depends on what you do, I sometimes swap with 16g ram
18:37 < junka> don't tell the kernel what to do!
18:37 < jiffe> anyone know a good way to download a directory structure presented over http recursively using multiple connections?
18:38 < jml2> jiffe, httptrack
18:38 < Psi-Jack> I'd rather got swap for things running and not using that paged memory providing more ram for caching
18:38 < MrElendig> note that multiple connections might not help, unless each target is really small
18:38 < jml2> jiffe, webhttrack - Copy websites to your computer, httrack with a Web interfac
18:38 < MrElendig> and even then http/2 would mostly solve the overhead issue
18:39 < dgurney> I always have 2GB of swap regardless of RAM amount
18:39 < ayecee> sounds like a reasonable amount
18:41 < jml2> if one has more than 4 gb, they should be setting hugepages to anonymous and on by default.. helps reduce page count..  but then the rest of the kernel settings suck and need to be tweaked...
18:41 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: exactly. But never more than 2GB
18:41 < ayecee> we got a ricer here
18:42 < jml2> jiffe, webhttrack is a frontend, if you need the back-end it is httrack..
18:43 < cmpxchg8b> i don't use swap
18:45 < Psi-Jack> Ricer? Who where?
18:46 < Armand> cmpxchg8b: Mistake
18:46 < ayecee> "the rest of the kernel settings suck and need to be tweaked"
18:47 < ayecee> frob all the things. 10hp guaranteed.
18:48 < Psi-Jack> Lol
18:48 < cmpxchg8b> Armand: mistake what
18:48 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. ALL other kernel settings must go. Hehe
18:49 < cmpxchg8b> empty .config
18:49 < texinwien> is there a good reason to end a shell script with: exec bash ?
18:49 < cmpxchg8b> texinwien: no
18:49 < ayecee> texinwien: probably yes
18:49 < jml2> Psi-Jack, i've got like 30 modifications here for my kernel :)
18:49 < Psi-Jack> Only 30?
18:49 < revel> texinwien: Maybe.
18:49 < Psi-Jack> That's hardly all.
18:49 < ayecee> jml2: dude, you're leaving horsepower on the table!
18:49 < jml2> Psi-Jack, kernel params + sysctl.conf
18:50 < Psi-Jack> Weak!
18:50 < ayecee> jml2: which do you use, arch or gentoo?
18:50 < jml2> Psi-Jack, makes night and day difference considering I can get no latency/jitter issues when using jackd things...
18:50 < revel> Arch users compile their kernels?
18:50 < Psi-Jack> Come back when you have 500+
18:50 < texinwien> One 'no', one 'probably yes', one 'Maybe'. Where's my magic 8 ball?
18:51 < jml2> Psi-Jack, apparently you're not into jackd things so you wouldn't know :)
18:51 < ayecee> texinwien: it made sense to whoever put it in the script you're looking at.
18:51 < revel> texinwien: "Try again laters"
18:51 < revel> s/s//
18:51 < cmpxchg8b> texinwien: outlook don't look good
18:51 < Psi-Jack> I do use jackd actually
18:51 < ayecee> texinwien: therefore there may be a case where there's a good reason
18:51 < revel> Psi-Jack: Do you use psybnc?
18:51 < texinwien> ayecee The problem is that I'm not really convinced that the person who put it there knew what they were doing.
18:51 < jml2> Psi-Jack, yeah you use everything :) lol
18:51 < Psi-Jack> revel no
18:52 < Psi-Jack> jml2: almost
18:52 < revel> texinwien: The contents of the script may help?
18:52 < Psi-Jack> I don't use psybnc hehe
18:52 < texinwien> # Clear bash variables for the next run in the terminal
18:53 < ayecee> weird
18:53 < jml2> texinwien, maybe your dumb boss put it there
18:53 < ayecee> if the script is sourced and not executed that may make sense
18:53 < Psi-Jack> texinwien: they didn't know what they were doing confirmed.
18:53 < ayecee> but only barely
18:53 < texinwien> not my boss, but a co-worker whose skills I'm skeptical of.
18:53 < jml2> lol
18:54 < revel> texinwien: Is the script supposed to be sourced?
18:54 < jml2> texinwien, maybe they're testing you.. to see if you should stay admin :))
18:54 < texinwien> the script sources another file, but the script itself isn't sourced by anything.
18:55 < texinwien> It's actually all over the place in the guy's scripts.
18:55 < Psi-Jack> Double confirmed.
18:55 < texinwien> Whenever he hits an error condition, he calls exec bash
18:55 < Psi-Jack> Execute coworker immediately.
18:55 < texinwien> In addition to the end of every shell script.
18:55 < revel> lol
18:55 < ayecee> cargo cult scripting
18:56 < texinwien> if ![ copyResult -eq 0]
18:56 < texinwien> echo error
18:56 < texinwien> exec bash
18:56 < texinwien> that kind of thing, all over the place.
18:56 < Psi-Jack> Wow
18:56 < ayecee> ok, i'm convinced.
18:56 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. Horrible
18:56 < jml2> texinwien, yeah that's incorrect syntax lol
18:56 < uplime> there needs to be a space after the 0
18:56 < ayecee> there may be a good reason, but this isn't it.
18:57 < uplime> oh this is your coworkers script
18:57 < Psi-Jack> texinwien: for every exec line in code, cut. For the last one: execute him
18:57 < texinwien> there is a space after the 0 - sorry, I just typed it in rather than copy/pasting it and missed the space.
18:57 < Psi-Jack> Hehe
18:57 < jml2> texinwien, the ! should actually be inside the [ as well
18:57 < uplime> it can be on the outside
18:57 < uplime> but there needs to be spaces around it as well
18:58 < Psi-Jack> It shouldn't be on the outside
18:58 < texinwien> copy/pasted: if ! [ $copy -eq 0 ]; then
18:58 < texinwien> echo "error"
18:58 < ayecee> perfectly cromulent
18:58 < uplime> Psi-Jack: why not?
18:58 < texinwien> exec bash
18:58 < texinwien> fi
18:58 < texinwien> :D
18:58 < Psi-Jack> uplime: many many many reasons.
18:58 < uplime> Psi-Jack: such as?
18:58 < Psi-Jack> Syntax
18:58 < ayecee> probably easier to read with -ne instead of ! -eq
18:59 < Psi-Jack> Compare correctly not inversely and reversed
18:59 < uplime> NickChambers-iMac:~ Nick$ sh
18:59 < ayecee> those ! disappear when you're reading fast
18:59 < uplime> NickChambers-iMac:~ Nick$ if ! [ a = b ]; then echo hi; fi
18:59 < uplime> hi
18:59 < uplime> syntax is fine
18:59 < jml2> texinwien,  if ! (( copyresult = 0 )) , can also apply .. notice here $ is not used..
18:59 < ayecee> probably something to do with relativistic shortening
18:59 < texinwien> indeed there are 2K lines of code (not all shell) that should probably all be rewritten.
18:59 < hexnewbie> uplime: [ is essentially a shell command (there's even a /bin/[ executable if your shell doesn't have it), not simply syntax. [[ in bash is syntax, but that's different and keeps syntax more or less consistent with [
19:00 < jml2> texinwien, help \(\(    :)
19:00 < uplime> hexnewbie: yes im aware
19:00 < jml2> texinwien, that will show help on the arithmetic things :)
19:00 < texinwien> Fortunately, I didn't write any of this, but I may have to clean it up.
19:00 < texinwien> I think we'll end up rewriting it from scratch.
19:00 < ayecee> don't do it! it'll be your problem from then on!
19:01 < texinwien> well, he's rolling off of the project, and I'm staying on.
19:01 < t5u> hi i have a problem, ive just installed and updated fresh 12.4, and i am struggling with amd drivers, my software centre says that fglrx-core will break my Xorg
19:01 < hexnewbie> uplime: Er, I misread the spaces comment, sorry :)
19:01 < ayecee> also, anything it breaks will be blamed on you
19:01 < jml2> texinwien, should be == instead of = .. for that example I gave
19:01 < texinwien> So I'll either have to live with it forever or fix it.
19:01 < jml2> texinwien, i've seen worse
19:01 < jml2> t5u, 12.4 of what? lol
19:01 < texinwien> jml2 what I've shown is probably the tip of the iceberg.
19:02 < Psi-Jack> jml2: where? How?
19:02 < t5u> 12.4 Ubuntu LTS
19:02 < ayecee> 12.04 maybe
19:03 < Psi-Jack> Just what's been shown above is enough to make me gag of bad bash. And I'm tough skinned.
19:03 < ayecee> t5u: why would you freshly install a distribution that is so old that it's no longer supported?
19:03 < hexnewbie> I was freaked out by seeing [ in /bin probably the moment I opened kfm in KDE and started browsing around wondering ‘what's Linux’ (though maybe it was the gnome file manager, so even earlier).
19:03 < uplime> why would it freak you out?
19:03 < t5u> ayecee: why do you ask even
19:03 < ayecee> t5u: support for 12.04 stopped a year ago
19:03 < uplime> its just the test command
19:04 < prussian> how testy
19:04 < t5u> sorry 14.4
19:04 < Psi-Jack> .04
19:04 < ayecee> same question
19:04 < hexnewbie> uplime: Well, I was a Windows newcomer, not knowing bash syntax or what test is, expecting that [ is invalid in filenames (LOL), and confident that's a very bad filename, let alone program.
19:04 < jim> yeah, [ foo ] calls test foo
19:04 < t5u> just downgraded from 16.4
19:04 < Psi-Jack> .04
19:05 < uplime> the only thing that can't be in filenames is NULs and /'s
19:05 < prussian> which is a tragedy
19:05 < prussian> though technically fs specific also... but meh
19:05 < ayecee> you're a tragedy
19:05 < Azrael_-> is it possible to find out in what kernels this bug is already fixed? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1436866 or what kernels are before this bug was introduced?
19:05 < Psi-Jack> t5u: there is no 40th month
19:05 < ayecee> Azrael_-: not easily, no
19:06 < Azrael_-> that's just crap. currently i'm testing out tons of versions and hope i find one without this bug. but this is just tedious and cumbersome....
19:06 < hexnewbie> Azrael_-: Not difficult, either. Find one of the commits, find a version in which it was committed, then find all versions released around that time and go up and down the change log.
19:06 < t5u> Breaks existing package 'xserver-xorg-core-lts-xenial' conflict: fglrx-core ()
19:06 < hexnewbie> Azrael_-: If you're only interested in one version of the kernel (4.8) it ought to be pretty easy
19:06 < ayecee> )`:
19:06 < plexigras> how can i go through a list and run a command over the entrys until it command doesnt fail?
19:07 < emberquill1> t5u: isn't xenial 16.04?
19:07 < Psi-Jack> t5u: Why would you... Downgrade?
19:07 < ayecee> t5u: if you're using backports packages, xenial's xserver no longer works with fglrx
19:07 < Azrael_-> hexnewbie: no, i'm not really interested in this kernel. i only found this bug in the kali-releases (debian kernels) and the only related bug-report i found was this one from redhat :(
19:07 < ayecee> t5u: fglrx was retired around 15.10 time
19:08 < t5u> im guessing that 14.4 has some ports ==> 16.4
19:08 < ayecee> you're using the hardware enablement stuff, aren't you
19:08 < Psi-Jack> .04 and .04
19:08 < t5u> Psi-Jack: aye sure
19:08 < Psi-Jack> t5u: Corrections. Use them
19:09 < t5u> Psi-Jack: thanks
19:09 < hexnewbie> Azrael_-: Given the strange reason for bug closure, I would manually install 4.16.5 and see if the bug s present. If not present, all is fine. If it exist, I would install Fedora 28 just so I can reproduce and reopen the bug in the RedHat tracker :)
19:10 < Azrael_-> hexnewbie: godlike. until now i just only wanted to use a simple nfc card reader with linux and didn't want to go down the whole road. also tried using kali as everything should be already set up there without me having to fiddle out all the dependencies :)
19:10 < ice9> which vpn clients that supports IKEv2?
19:10 < Psi-Jack> Ipsec ones
19:11 < Psi-Jack> I hate IKEv2. And ipsec. Horrible stuff h4x0r3d together.
19:11 < hexnewbie> Azrael_-: Oh, I wouldn't do most of that to get a reader working (I'd buy a different one). But if it's just so I can piss on the people at bug tracker, I would :)
19:12 < t5u> yes why
19:12 < ayecee> ice9: most likely strongswan on linux
19:12 < Azrael_-> hexnewbie: feel free to test it yourself. but i bought this readeer because it was recommended by a person i trust. but because of me being a newbie-status in this segment i don't want to run asking all the time what setup he uses and/or how i can avoid this bug
19:13 < Psi-Jack> strongswan and Libre swan
19:13 < Azrael_-> and a new one would cost again and take more time to deliver
19:13 < Psi-Jack> The only two still supported and developed.
19:15 < awy_> hi whenever we write data , i was told it goes to memcache --  file system -- disk cache -- disk?
19:15 < awy_> is the order right?
19:15 < ayecee> awy_: no
19:16 < awy_> aah
19:16 < ayecee> or maybe yes
19:16 < busybox42> No
19:16 < awy_> ayecee: what do you think is the correct order
19:16 < ayecee> memcache is ambiguous
19:16 < Psi-Jack> awy_: what?
19:16 < Psi-Jack> memcache doesn't use disk..
19:17 < awy_> what is mem cache?? some portion of memory in the physical ram?
19:17 < Psi-Jack> It's a memory based keystore cache.
19:17 < Psi-Jack> Server
19:17 < ayecee> not in this context
19:17 < ayecee> awy_: that's something you'll have to ask the person who told you this, because it doesn't have a clear meaning.
19:18 < ayecee> however, one normally reads from caches and writes to buffers.
19:18 < hexnewbie> The only thing I know going by the name of ‘mem cache’ is an obsolete PHP module whose functioning is unclear to me
19:19 < ayecee> hexnewbie: so it's almost certainly not a literal name
19:19 < ayecee> smart, eh
19:19 < Psi-Jack> hexnewbie: obsolete? Naw.
19:19 < hexnewbie> Psi-Jack: Hasn't it been replaced by memcached?
19:20 < Psi-Jack> hexnewbie: Yoooooou have  been replaced. :)
19:21 < jml2> Azrael_-, ah no.. a kali user!!
19:21 < jml2> Azrael_-, you're a hacker!!
19:22 < Psi-Jack> Script kiddie more like. :p
19:23 < ayecee> por que no los dos
19:23 < DrunkRhino> Alright, someone tell me if I'm nuts. Using paprefs and enabling the options under the "access" tab, plus the options under "server" on the machine connected to the input device should be all I need to use Audacity on my tower and the turntable hooked up to the pi, right?
19:23 < ayecee> you're nuts
19:23 < Psi-Jack> I agree
19:24 < ayecee> we've solved another one
19:24 < DrunkRhino> Ok, fair :p
19:24 < DrunkRhino> I walked into that one.
19:24 < Psi-Jack> Face first
19:26 < hexnewbie> Is it for turntabling (?) or listening? If former, it's the good kind of nuts. If the latter, well... There's no bad kind of nuts really, but it's scary :)
19:27 < ayecee> there are definitely bad kind of nuts
19:27 < ayecee> though i understand what you're going for there, trying to be inclusive
19:28 < DrunkRhino> Just conversion, nothing real-time really. Running "ssh -Y pi audacity" and recording that way works fine, but the UI is just a bit slow being run on a remote machine + the wireless connection.
19:29 < Psi-Jack> Why even use audacity at all?
19:30 < Psi-Jack> ffmpeg or even arecord
19:30 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, it's the tool I'm most familiar with, plus the tracks need to be all split up after I'm done.
19:30 < Psi-Jack> Then even better. Output to - and totally don't even try to stream through loops.
19:32 < jml2> DrunkRhino, i use rtp for doing simulatenously playback but its limitted to 16-bit (pa)
19:32 < DrunkRhino> Alright, I'll have a look at the manpages for those then.
19:32 < jml2> DrunkRhino, when you say "server" I'm assuming two separate machines over the network. :p
19:33 < DrunkRhino> jml2, correct, using that since paprefs also uses "server" in the options tab there.
19:33 < jml2> DrunkRhino, you just want playback? there's rtp module...
19:33 < Psi-Jack> ffmpeg, output to -, redirect to local file on local origin side of the ssh.
19:33 < jml2> DrunkRhino, but it's lower quality and is restricted to 16-bit...
19:34 < Psi-Jack> Edit and cut appropriately after it's digitized.
19:34 < Psi-Jack> Not during. :)
19:34 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, that's what I assumed, but I didn't want to go bashing in the command with zsh's autocomplete.
19:34 < jml2> DrunkRhino, but the thing is you're getting I think not so bad real-time playback...
19:34 < Psi-Jack> So, don't use autocomplete. :p
19:35 < DrunkRhino> Psi-Jack, I meant more in the "flying blind" sense rather than specifically the tab-completion :p
19:35 < awy_> how can we measure maximum tps a block device can offer
19:35 < Psi-Jack> Flying blind is bad. Don't do that.
19:36 < ayecee> awy_: bonnie++ is a stress tester that reports iops. maybe use that.
19:36 < Psi-Jack> tps?
19:36 < ayecee> probably iops
19:36 < ayecee> tps would be for databases
19:37 < ayecee> also for reports that your boss needs
19:37 < Psi-Jack> Exactly. heh
19:37 < Psi-Jack> Today!
19:37 < fendur> I can make you a copy of the memo. I'll make you a copy.
19:37 < ayecee> i'm going to need you to go ahead and come in on the weekend.
19:37 < Psi-Jack> Or you'll have to work over the weekend.
19:37 < Psi-Jack> heh
19:38 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: I mean, that'll only take 5 minutes, right? ;)
19:38 < ayecee> :)
19:40 < awy_> is it good practice to clear buffer cache ? using sync; echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
19:41 < Psi-Jack> Not really..
19:41 < awy_> does the above command not clear the buffer cache?
19:41 < ayecee> that is what it does
19:41 < Psi-Jack> Sure, it does. But in general, just doing that for no viablely specific intentional reason blindly, is not good practices.
19:42 < ayecee> "is it good practice to turn left?"
19:42 < Psi-Jack> I turn left almost exclusively.
19:43 < ayecee> you know what they say, three lefts make a right
19:43 < prussian> what if I turn right to turn left?
19:43 < Psi-Jack> Left!
19:43 < awy_> ayecee: Psi-Jack do we generally clear buffer cache to speed up the system or performance?
19:43 < Psi-Jack> NO!
19:43 < ayecee> awy_: pretty much the opposite
19:43 < medfly> Hi. I want to pci-stub one of my pci devices and then pass it through to a kvm guest. having trouble blacklisting it. any tips?
19:43 < ayecee> awy_: the buffer cache exists to speed up the system or performance
19:43 < jim> prussian, you can do it three times!
19:44 < medfly> This is on some shiny ubuntu (4.13), but I only installed linux to do this, I'd switch to anything else if it works.
19:44 < awy_> ayecee: sure
19:44 < Psi-Jack> medfly: No such thing as 4.13.
19:44 < ayecee> yes there is
19:44 < medfly> 4.13.0-39-generic is what it calls it
19:44 < ziggylazer> hey jim
19:44 < Psi-Jack> That's a kernel version, not a distro version.
19:45 < ayecee> didn't say it was a distro version
19:45 < Psi-Jack> It was right next to the distro name. :)
19:45 < medfly> well, linux 4.13.
19:45 < Psi-Jack> See, now that's correct. :)
19:45 < ayecee> i can see why you're confused, lacking the ability to interpret context
19:45 < Psi-Jack> No context was supplied. :)
19:45 < ayecee> see, that's what i mean
19:46 < irgendwer4711> hi, I got trouble with ecryptfs: "Error decrypting page" how to find the file, which is causing that?
19:46 < Psi-Jack> Interpretation is prone to failure anyway. Just look at all the vulnerabilities caused by interpreters.
19:46 < Psi-Jack> irgendwer4711: You're using ecryptfs instead of LUKS like you should be.
19:47 < irgendwer4711> Psi-Jack: no!
19:47 < Psi-Jack> Absolutely!
19:47 < medfly> irgendwer4711: you might be able to find the faulting thing with strace
19:47 < ayecee> Psi-Jack: stop with the elitism plskthx
19:48 < irgendwer4711> medfly: which string? as I rememder, there is one empty crypted file cause the problem, because disk was full.
19:48 < Psi-Jack> It's not elitism. ecryptfs is pretty.... unreliable, insecure, and generally wouldn't even recommend it to even my worst enemy.
19:48  * medfly less at home with strace and doesn't know how to invoke it
19:48 < ayecee> yup, that's elitism
19:48 < Psi-Jack> You should refresh on your understanding of the word, then.
19:49 < ayecee> well, one of us should
19:49 < awy_> ayecee: also clearing the swap space once in a while is a good idea?
19:49 < ayecee> awy_: no
19:49 < irgendwer4711> Psi-Jack: in future I would like to use ext4 encryption
19:49 < ayecee> awy_: there is nothing about that idea that is good.
19:49 < Psi-Jack> irgendwer4711: You mean LUKS?
19:49 < irgendwer4711> Psi-Jack: stop trolling!
19:49 < Psi-Jack> I'm not trolling.
19:49 < dgurney> ext4 does have inbuilt encryption, but I'm not sure how it compares to LUKS
19:50 < ayecee> it's not trolling if you honestly believe what you're saying.
19:50 < ayecee> still pretty annoying.
19:50 < ayecee> Psi-Jack: would condescending be a better term to use?
19:50 < Psi-Jack> On, ext4 does actually support encryption? Wow..
19:51 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: Strongly recommending maybe.
19:51 < jim> irgendwer4711, lucs is one form of encryption. psi just asked yuou if that[s what you meant
19:51 < irgendwer4711> I didnt talk about luks
19:51 < ayecee> jim: no, Psi-Jack insisted that that's what he should use
19:52 < ayecee> repeatedly and condescendingly
19:52 < Psi-Jack> There was no insisting.
19:52 < jim> let's just drop all this argument part
19:52 < Psi-Jack> There was no condescending, either.
19:53 < jim> one thing's for sure it generated commentary and some heat
19:53 < ayecee> pulling a trump, eh. keep repeating it until it's true.
19:54 < Psi-Jack> Speaking of trump.... I've been seeing lots of interesting suspect traffic from trump tower recently.
19:54 < DrunkRhino> Speaking of encryption, what would be the best way to go about encrypting a couple of installations that are on systems old enough that I'm stuck with MBR?
19:54 < DrunkRhino> Ooh do tell.
19:54 < Psi-Jack> Failed, repeat logins, triggering off reactions from monitoring that blocks it, from trump tower. heh
19:55 < guideX> I was wondering if linux people have the poor opinion of .net core
19:55 < guideX> like they seem to with mono
19:55 < Psi-Jack> wut?
19:55 < medfly> I reckon people don't really think of .net as a choice because they are used to other things. market share
19:55 < dgurney> some linux people equate anything Microsoft as satanic, so yes
19:55 < medfly> I don't even know much about .net
19:55 < dgurney> but generally, I haven't seen hate towards .net core
19:56 < djph> dgurney: or just sub-par
19:56 < medfly> I don't windows, so I don't really know what it is, and not knowing what it is - I wouldn't think to se it
19:56 < djph> DrunkRhino: if you want full-disk encryption, LUKS?
19:56 < lukey_> guideX: I only know it as C#
19:57 < Psi-Jack> DrunkRhino: LUKS. Backup and restore. (borgbackup I can recommend for the backups)
19:57 < guideX> lukey_: well there's mono (community c#) and .net core (microsofts c# version)
19:57 < medfly> hurray, I succeeded in stubbing the device I wanted
19:57 < srukle> lukey_: I know C# developers who only see it as C#.
19:57 < guideX> lukey_: mono seems to have this horrible reputation
19:57 < Psi-Jack> medfly: Did you use soap? ;)
19:57 < anonnumberanon> I'm finding it particularly difficult to do something does anyone can help? run a bash script which ssh to a machine and does not require any user input, after it has a shell on the other machine, it installs software with elevated privileges. ??
19:57 < guideX> (unde4r linux)
19:57 < Psi-Jack> Oh, stubbing, not scrubbing. L:)
19:57 < medfly> I had a typo in one of my files, forgot to update-initramfs one time, and also addded a blacklist for the original driver
19:57 < lukey_> Psi-Jack: or lvmove :)
19:58 < medfly> I'm gonna do driver development in style, pass the same machine's device to a vm :-) :-)
19:58 < lukey_> Psi-Jack: Err... pvmove of cource
19:58 < Psi-Jack> lukey_: Very specific use case.
19:58 < djph> Psi-Jack: have you tried backblaze?
19:58 < DrunkRhino> Re: Microsoft, I remembered this, I'll leave it here. "I love the way Microsoft follows standards. In much the same manner that fish follow migrating caribou"
19:59 < medfly> fwiw I like how friendly microsoft is with regards to open sourcing .net core
19:59 < medfly> my friend ported it to netbsd and he seemed to have a much better time than with other large companies (*cough* google)
19:59 < Psi-Jack> djph: I use b3
19:59 < Psi-Jack> b2
19:59 < DrunkRhino> They do seem to be getting better these days.
19:59 < medfly> they had a chat to discuss development an were very responsive at surprising hours
19:59 < Psi-Jack> djph: My borgbackup backups are copied to b2.
20:00 < djph> Psi-Jack: ahhh, right
20:00 < djph> Psi-Jack: you were telling me to check out b2 earlier this month
20:00 < gronke> I'm trying to install an R package as part of a Galaxy toolset, and I'm getting this error: "ERROR: dependency ‘gdata’ is not available for package ‘gplots’". I'm on CentOS 7. I've installed a bunch of gdata packages but none seem to help.
20:01 < Psi-Jack> djph: It's possible I might've, yes.
20:03 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmm... Emby actually has backup & restore? Why doesn't Plex have that after all these years?!
20:04 < rypervenche> jml2: Yes, it works fine and leaves the port opened for 5 seconds. I was going to do UDP packets first, but that requires ICMP and thus root, so I went with TCP in the end. The ports never look opened from the scanner's point of view and one of my ports is higher and one lower than the first, so a serial scanner would not hit all of them. And I have more 3, this was just a dumbed-down version.
20:04 < djph> Psi-Jack: because fuck you that's why
20:05 < Psi-Jack> Basically.... And I'm a Plex Pass lifetime member. :/
20:05 < Vapez> I have an issue with attaching a Volume from another EC2 into another EC2, it auto mount it
20:05 < Vapez> why !?
20:05 < djph> aaw
20:05 < uplime> Vapez: perhaps give some more information
20:05 < Vapez> it's about aws
20:05 < uplime> yes im aware
20:05 < Vapez> but the guys from aws doesn't answer
20:05 < jml2> rypervenche, yeah using hping requires a netcap capability (raw socket)
20:05 < Psi-Jack> Vapez: ##aws
20:05 < Vapez> so, what do you want to know
20:05 < Vapez> they won't answer
20:06 < uplime> yes they will
20:06 < Psi-Jack> Well, it's off topic here. And yes, they will.
20:06 < Vapez> i just asked
20:06 < uplime> you asked a terrible question 3 minutes ago. be patient
20:06 < rypervenche> jml2: Yeah, same with nmap because of the ICMP. Using TCP fixed that though and can run as normal user.
20:06 < uplime> irc != instant communication
20:06 < Psi-Jack> I mean you LITERALLY just only asked 3 minutes ago.
20:06 < jml2> rypervenche, if the scanner is fast enough (like 1000's / sec), it can bypass it within 5 seconds...
20:06 < Vapez> I don't have autofs so it shouldn't be auto mount
20:06 < Vapez> i don't understand, why it's mounted
20:06 < jml2> rypervenche, so that is why I have removals when an incorrect port is entered (for those lines without -j )
20:06 < uplime> Vapez: wait for the aws people to respond
20:06 < gronke> Does anyone have any idea about that gdata error message? It must be a dependency that I'm missing from somewhere.
20:07 < DrunkRhino> Any ideas why UFW shows all my other rules by their appropriate names, but instead of SSH it just shows 22 instead?
20:07 < jml2> rypervenche, (I mean when an incorrect port is knocked)
20:07 < Vapez> is there any order how the devices are mounted in linux?
20:07 < rypervenche> jml2: Ahh ok, I can set that up easily then. I'll add it. Thanks for the tip.
20:07 < jml2> rypervenche, when the portknock is wrong, the portknock gets reset...
20:07 < uplime> DrunkRhino: was that rule added to ufw by name or by port 22?
20:07 < Psi-Jack> Vapez: ##aws
20:07 < Vapez> is there any difference if i set a device to /dev/xvdb instead of /dev/sdc ?
20:07 < jml2> rypervenche, getting the portknock reset is imho a good way to make sure that scanners can't beat it..
20:08 < rypervenche> jml2: Aye. I agree.
20:08 < ayecee> Vapez: they're different devices, but they're both block devices.
20:08 < DrunkRhino> uplime, I'm sure I've run "ufw delete allow to any port 22 && ufw allow ssh" at least a couple times by now
20:09 < DrunkRhino> Wait, should I be sticking a "reload" in there?
20:09 < DrunkRhino> *in between
20:13 < emberquill> DrunkRhino: yeah, ufw reload whenever you modify the rules.
20:13 < emberquill> Also for mine I think I had to explicitly use "openssh" instead of "ssh"
20:14 < uplime> it probably depends on /etc/services
20:14 < uplime> or whatever that file is called
20:16 < DrunkRhino> emberquill, I'll give that a shot. I just didn't want to make sure I didn't keep ssh disabled, it being a pi and all.
20:16 < uplime> spin up a temporary ssh on another port?
20:17 < DrunkRhino> uplime, that could work.
20:19 < awy_> what is noop deadline cfq
20:20 < awy_> are those the types of scheduler? also is it io scheduler or a task scheduler?
20:20 < awy_> i catted scheduler file in /sys/block/sda/queue
20:20 < KeithWeisshar> Why does osdisc.com charge more for linux on usb flash drive than the CD/DVD?
20:20 < Psi-Jack> awy_: Poking randomly?
20:20 < Psi-Jack> KeithWeisshar: USB is more expensive media.
20:21 < Psi-Jack> D'uh...
20:21 < awy_> Psi-Jack: not really. trying to understand the depth of linux :)
20:21 < Psi-Jack> awy_: Those are I/O Schedulers.
20:21 < DrunkRhino> uplime, emberquill, nope, still no dice, it still displays as "22" instead of "SSH"
20:21 < Psi-Jack> You can google the rest.
20:21 < uplime> DrunkRhino: sorry not sure then
20:22 < uplime> I really only use ufw to setup some initial rules then be done with it
20:22 < uplime> #ufw exists htough, if im not mistaken
20:22 < solidfox> what cpu do you guys use or want to switch to
20:22 < solidfox> I'm still on intel on my laptop
20:22 < awy_> Psi-Jack: could you tell me which file will list the task scheduler?
20:22 < KeithWeisshar> 16gb from osdisc is $14.95, 32gb is $24.95, and 64gb is $34.95, cd is $2.95 and dvd is $5.95
20:23 < DrunkRhino> uplime, ah well, thanks anyway!
20:23 < djph> solidfox: "intel"
20:24 < Psi-Jack> KeithWeisshar: I see you have eyeballs that can see.
20:24 < Psi-Jack> And intelligence enough to read and write. :)
20:24 < KeithWeisshar> those are all the osdisc.com prices
20:24 < Psi-Jack> Are you advertising for them?
20:25 < KeithWeisshar> no
20:25 < Psi-Jack> Okay. Do you have a Linux question not pertaining to osdisc.com?
20:25 < jml2> osdisc prices lol
20:25 < KeithWeisshar> ubuntu 18.04 not released yet
20:26 < jml2> a price of those disks is a quarter charge of my internet!
20:26 < triceratux> well after dinnertime on the isle of man
20:27 < djph> jml2: you pay $12 for internet?
20:27 < solidfox> djph, ?
20:27 < djph> solidfox: hmm?
20:27 < solidfox> djph, "intel"
20:27 < cmpxchg8b> my internet bill is 8 euros
20:27 < solidfox> what do you mean
20:27 < solidfox> is it a fake intel
20:27 < djph> solidfox: you asked what CPU mfg.  "Intel"
20:28 < solidfox> djph, oh you were answering my question?
20:28 < solidfox> I see
20:28 < djph> solidfox: indeed
20:28 < solidfox> the quotes threw me off
20:28 < solidfox> djph, sometimes quotes mean sarcasm
20:29 < jml2> discovered that stupid wordpress requires the loopback to work properly.. had to run a dumb health check plugin tehehe
20:29 < djph> yeah, pebcak, typing strings out in the other screen :|
20:29 < jml2> lame!
20:36 < simbalion`> AppImage files should be named .ai, right?
20:36 < uplime> simbalion`: depends on the software reading them I guess
20:36 < simbalion`> I mean I know they're named .AppImage typically but that's annoying to type
20:36 < uplime> extensions don't really mean anything in linux
20:36 < simbalion`> uplime: well they're executables
20:37 < uplime> simbalion`: executables don't need any extensions
20:37 < simbalion`> uplime: no I get that, however if AppImage is going to be the standard for cross-distro executables then a short catchy extension is a good idea
20:37 < simbalion`> and .ai just seems awesome to me
20:37 < uplime> we'll have to disagree on what a good idea is then
20:38 < simbalion`> Heh, nothing wrong with that, everyone is entitled to be wrong ;)
20:39 < simbalion`> Tho I get AppImage is still really new and maybe something will replace it like flatpak but from a user's perspective AppImage is the 'friendliest' approach I've seen
20:39 < simbalion`> and being able to run portably or install is awesome, frankly.
20:39 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm
20:41 < simbalion`> Not having extensions on executable files is fine when yer a nerd like us but as 'average' users start adopting linux they're going to demand visual ways to represent executables similar to what they're used to.. that doesn't have to be an extension, but extensions are useful for that.
20:41 < simbalion`> I usually never both with extensions myself.. I might sometimes use a .sh or .py but mostly I hate typing periods.
20:41 < simbalion`> i usually never bother*
20:42 < Psi-Jack> You just hit . 5 times.
20:42 < simbalion`> lol
20:42 < Psi-Jack> One time, twice in a row even. :)
20:42 < simbalion`> I said I don't like typing periods, I didn't say I'm willing to sacrifice quality of communication over it.
20:43 < triceratux> simbalion`: users are always free to define mimetypes or rely on the file command
20:43 < simbalion`> and of course most commands are tab-completed these days anyway
20:43 < Psi-Jack> Oh thank the gods for that! :)
20:43 < simbalion`> triceratux: Sure there's nothing stopping me from renaming my AppImage files to .ai, but I am sharing the idea here because I think it should catch on :)
20:46 < awy_> what info does /var/log/secure file has
20:47 < ananke> awy_: look inside
20:47 < simbalion`> I think that's authentication attempts in redhat systems? The equivalent of /var/log/auth on Debian
20:47 < simbalion`> awy_:
20:47 < awy_> thanks simbalion`
20:48 < simbalion`> awy_: happy to help, you should check to be certain cause I never use redhat
20:55 < Psi-Jack> bo6: Consider that when you change nicks many times in a large channel, repeatedly, over the course of even just 1 hour, 8 times, is very noisy.
20:55 < Psi-Jack> Just sayin. :)
20:57 < justsomeguy> Would someone be so kind as to give me a short high level overview of how updates work in fedora atomic workstation?
20:57 < awy_> what does /etc/securetty has.. commenting one of those tty,would prevent us to do what?
20:57 < mawk> aaa
20:57 < meyou> nothing is noisier than Psi-Jack though
20:58 < jim> awy_, sec
20:59 < ananke> awy_: man securetty
20:59 < Psi-Jack> jim: ^ Looks like he's on the road to doing it again. FYI.
20:59 < antichri|st> Psi-Jack: consier your opinion worthless.
20:59 < antichri|st>  consider***
20:59 < mawk> that file is still used awy_ ?
20:59 < jim> awy_, those are the ttys that can log in as root
21:00 < jim> I guess you can put it into a pam thing
21:00 < awy_> jim: when i do su -, it doesnt let me login as root
21:00 < mawk> on which tty awy_ ?
21:00 < awy_> however did not have any problem when i used sudo su - or sudo -i
21:00 < mawk> it's a list for login, not for su, as far as I know
21:01 < ananke> awy_: su requires root password.
21:01 < jim> so sudo doesn';t use that mechanism
21:01 < awy_> ananke: if i dont know the root passowrd,how do i proceed
21:01 < mawk> you don't
21:01 < ananke> awy_: you don't. you can use sudo -i, then change root's password.
21:02 < jim> you are probably in the /etc/sudoers file
21:07 < Celmor> are devices starting with '/dev/xvd' a thing? often seeing it in guides
21:07 < Celmor> or is it just so the user doesn't do something stupid if he copies the command exactly
21:08 < heiler> Celmor xen uses this I think
21:08 < bls> Celmor: it's a specific type of emulated disk
21:08 < Celmor> ah
21:08 < heiler> instead of /dev/sda
21:08 < ananke> Celmor: it's xen
21:08 < ananke> doh, I see somebody already mentioned it
21:09 < ananke> Celmor: one shouldn't be doing copy/paste of devices off random guides anyway
21:09 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, I forget, what does kvm use when you're using virtio, but not virtio-scsi?
21:09 < bls> so it's likely either a poorly written guide by someone that doesn't know they should mention the difference, or it's for a specific provider or for a specific xen setup
21:09 < Celmor> ik
21:09 < Psi-Jack> What's icky?
21:10 < Celmor> bls, it's used here https://docs.docker.com/storage/storagedriver/zfs-driver/#manage-zfs
21:10 < hexnewbie> Psi-Jack: The simpler PCI virtio block devices?
21:11 < Psi-Jack> hexnewbie: The virtio bus devices, basically.
21:11 < heiler> when a normal user logs in via telnet and a interactive program is auto-started via ".bash_profile", shouldn't this program be killed when the user logs out?
21:11 < Celmor> Psilocyber, I had /dev/vda<number>
21:11 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, vdXY
21:11 < hexnewbie> /dev/vda, yeah
21:11 < Psi-Jack> xvd is Xen, vd is KVM. :)
21:12 < Celmor> makes sense
21:12 < Celmor> vd -> virtio disk, xvd -> xen virtio disk?
21:12 < bls> Celmor: ok, so they've assumed a lot about how you're running docker and failed to mention you might not have the exact same setup
21:13 < Celmor> well, the exact block devices used are always different, it's pretty clear that those are just examples
21:13 < hexnewbie> Celmor: xvd* is Xen *virtual* disk, virtio is the term for vd*
21:13 < Celmor> ok
21:13 < jml2> heiler, depending on your distro, sometimes the default i .profile
21:13 < jml2> heiler, and don't use telnet
21:14 < jml2> heiler, use "ssh"
21:14 < heiler> I'm troubleshooting an ancient system ;p
21:14 < jml2> heiler, dos?
21:15 < heiler> ahuahua
21:15 < heiler> natural/ADABAS database on a CentOS
21:15 < jml2> heiler, you're a badass I get it.
21:15 < mawk> what's the VNET feature for tun/tap ?
21:15 < jml2> heiler, I bet your database is just a flat-sheet csv file..
21:16 < hexnewbie> heiler: CentOS should have SSH even in its oldest incarnations. I was shouted for using telnet in RedHat 6.0 days (also DOS days)
21:16 < mawk> and offload, and xfilter ? I can offload checksums to the kernel or something ?
21:16 < jml2> heiler, mwhahaha
21:16 < Psi-Jack> mawk: To hardware, actually.
21:16 < mawk> yeah for a generic offload feature
21:16 < mawk> but specifically for the offload feature of tun/tap devices, I don't know
21:17 < mawk> kernel gives us packets with the correct checksum already no ?
21:17 < heiler> well users must login via telnet, because the "natural" program uses VT100 with an ASCII screen and so
21:17 < Psi-Jack> checksum offloading is the effect of using the NIC's built-in hardware to handle that.
21:17 < Psi-Jack> If the NIC supports it, of course.
21:17 < mawk> yeah
21:17 < mawk> what's the point of having a checksum on ipv4 packets that I'm about to tunnel, actually ?
21:17 < mawk> there will be an outer ipv4 datagram with a real checksum
21:17 < heiler> but anyway, everything is working like this for years, the only problem is when some users disconnects
21:18 < mawk> no need for an inner checksum, I can set it to zero
21:18 < mawk> ah but then on desencapsulation the packet will be with no checksum, something bad will happen
21:18 < heiler> the "natural" program isn't killed and becomes in loop using 100% cpu
21:18 < mawk> that's a bad situation
21:20 < mawk> there are no docs on the subject
21:21  * aBound docking in the corner
21:22  * aBound shows full fledged barrier :P
21:22 < mawk> there is this in the header for tuntap: #define TUN_F_CSUM 0x01 /* You can hand me unchecksummed packets. */
21:23 < mawk> but here "me" is my application, or the kernel ?
21:41 < jml2> heiler, what kind of bum company uses telnet? encapsulate all that
21:42 < Psi-Jack> jml2: Answer: Not one I would want to be responsible for.
21:42 < lrb> Is it possible to use less for the pager for info?
21:42 < jml2> lrb, it is when you install it.. by default it is usually the fallback
21:43 < jml2> lrb, otherwise use PAGER="less" in your bash startup script..
21:43 < jml2> lrb, and man should automatically use it
21:43 < lrb> make's documentation is in info. I'm not worried about man. I'll give the variable a shot though.
21:44 < DLange> he's asking for info and that thing needs it's own tool as it has keybindings, hyperlinks etc.
21:44 < DLange> its, too
21:44 < jml2> lrb, if that doesn't do you should also be able to symlink ~/bin/pager to your preferred pager...
21:45 < jml2> lrb, system wide it can also be adjusted using update-alternatives (/etc/alternatives/pager)
21:45 < lrb> Ah the update-alternatives route will probably be the best option
21:45 < jml2> lrb, yep
21:50  * jml2 notices meyou talking about c:\ on #wordpress XD
21:50 < jml2> tehehe fake user !
21:51 < Psi-Jack> Windows user detected.
21:51 < hexnewbie> I got C:\!
21:51 < g9G6g9gG96> when will linux support backslashes for directories?
21:52 < Psi-Jack> C<  is better.
21:52 < Psi-Jack> g9G6g9gG96: Never.
21:52 < g9G6g9gG96> never say never!
21:52 < Psi-Jack> Never!
21:52 < g9G6g9gG96> linux-v2 then?
21:53 < melo3n> more like linux v2 when ;)
21:53 < melo3n> you can just use zsh or any other autocomplete to get over that problem though
21:54 < Psi-Jack> Well, Linux is already v4.16. :p
21:54 < revel> melo3n: v2 was ages ago. v5 may be coming soon.
21:54 < melo3n> lol i was just making a joke
21:54 < jml2> a lot of users think /etc/hosts is "dns"... this is a wild mis-conception
21:54 < revel> Linus apparently only postponed it to not be too predictable.
21:54 < melo3n> Linus, always giving us a tease
21:54 < revel> Since 4 was somewhere around 2 million git commits and now we're at 4 million commits or something like that?
21:55 < g9G6g9gG96> linux-v2.1.0 then?
21:56 < koala_man> g9G6g9gG96: https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.1/linux-2.1.0.tar.gz
21:56 < Psi-Jack> User error detected.
21:56 < koala_man> "30-Sep-1996"
21:56 < g9G6g9gG96> that's linux-2.1.0, not linux-v2.1.0
21:56 < koala_man> it's in the directory v2.1 though
21:56 < revel> What's the v for?
21:57 < koala_man> vindows path support
21:57 < Psi-Jack> The Vinal Battle.
21:57 < melo3n> vvindows*
21:57 < revel> The vinyl battle?
21:57 < melo3n> winyl battle*
21:57 < jml2> talking about the vin vin, that linspire distro came back recently... yeah that "lindows" company XD
21:58 < jml2> bet it has a tracker just like deepin XD
21:58 < revel> "7.0 SP1"
21:58 < revel> lol
21:58 < Psi-Jack> Heh. Apparently some people don't know about the old show "V"
21:58 < jml2> V was a movie...
21:59 < uplime> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_(TV_series)
21:59 < Psi-Jack> The original was a few movies, yes.
21:59 < Sitri> There was a movie called "V"?
21:59 < jml2> i cant stand movies anymore.. they suck.. for me its 15 minute video things on omeleto :)
21:59 < Psi-Jack> No, there were movies called V.
22:00 < jml2> we canadians are the bootleggers for movies.. you need a movie we just download it..
22:01 < Psi-Jack> Ahem.
22:01 < jml2> americans produce the movies, and we just download it for free
22:01 < Psi-Jack> jml2: You're overreaching.
22:01  * jml2 no longer downloads movies XD
22:01 < RayTracer> g9G6g9gG96: linux supports backslashes for directories: mkdir 'c:\test' ;)
22:02 < Psi-Jack> RayTracer: Yep. Totally valid, for a directory name. heh
22:02 < g9G6g9gG96> c:\\test
22:03 < Psi-Jack> Single quotes makes it look better.
22:03 < jml2> double quotes if you're married
22:03 < RayTracer> heh
22:03 < Psi-Jack> Nope, double quotes would escape the t in test.
22:04 < Psi-Jack> Making you go back and correct it.. Okay, I see what you did there. :)
22:04 < jml2> "they" if you're an X person..  someone here in my country is sending letters to legally allow to have "they" on identity cards.. recent news I was reading.
22:05  * jml2 works on wp
22:15 < haps> re
22:15 < haps> I'm having some trouble with frequency information on a rhel 7.4 machine, and I wonder if it's because the cpufreq doesn't support my cpu
22:16 < haps> the symptom is /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu<id>/cpufreq doesn't exist
22:16 < haps> nor does cpupower do anything
22:16 < haps> the cpu is: Intel(R) Xeon(R) Platinum 8160 CPU @ 2.10GHz
22:16 < haps> is that something anyone here can help me figure out ?
22:16 < azarus> What do you expect it to show?
22:16 < haps> basically I was trying to figure out of there's a kernel module I'm missing, but it seems like that's baked into the kernel?
22:17 < autopsy> haps have you checked bugzilla.redhat.com for a bug yet on it?
22:17 < haps> I expect there to be the cpufreq folder
22:17 < haps> but there isn't one
22:17 < azarus> Maybe that CPU doesn't do dynamic frequency scaling
22:17  * azarus shrugs
22:17 < haps> so I assumed that it was a loadable module
22:17 < haps> autopsy: I'll check that out
22:17 < haps> azarus: even if it doesn't do scaling, it should report the frequency
22:18 < haps> ie scaling* may not be there, but cpuinfo_cur_freq should
22:18 < autopsy> haps https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=Xeon%20cpufreq%20scaling
22:19 < jml2> haps, modprobe acpi_cpufreq , and then see if those paths exists (cat sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0/scaling_available_governors)
22:19 < autopsy> haps /proc/cpuinfo reports the type of processor and the MegaHertz.
22:19 < autopsy> jml2, oh I didn't know there was a module for it.
22:20 < azarus> Megahertz is a perfectly valid word, no weird capitalization required ;)
22:20 < jml2> haps, maybe it could be another module for your processor - ls -la /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/cpufreq/
22:20 < autopsy> Nevermind me in that case.
22:20 < haps> jml2: I have /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors on my laptop
22:20 < haps> unfortunately I can't modprobe that machine :-/
22:20 < jml2> autopsy, helps also to know what the cpu model is, it can say on the intel site...
22:20 < haps> but I'll ask our 'guy'
22:21 < autopsy> jml2 He said it was a Xeon.
22:21 < haps> autopsy: re: that bugzilla, it's not quite my issue, since I don't see that folder
22:21 < autopsy> haps aww you can't do modprobe that means you're not root.
22:21 < haps> no root for me
22:22 < jml2> autopsy, he's the new ftp user, he needs to ask the senior admin
22:22 < haps> heh
22:22 < haps> nah, I'm a dev, devs don't get root here
22:22 < autopsy> haps no but I was giving you a link to the bugzilla search platform in case you didn't know it existed for future reference.
22:22 < autopsy> jml2, yeah figures.
22:22 < eto> hello
22:22 < haps> autopsy: yeah that's a great idea, thanks, I feeel like a dumas for not thinking of it first.
22:22 < autopsy> Maybe the admin doesn't need scaling.
22:23 < haps> okay, thanks all for your help, good starting points.
22:23 < eto> can somebody confirm that macvlan or mactap work with dummy?
22:23 < jml2> eto, it would definitely be useless
22:23 < autopsy> haps There is a lot you can do from existing bug reports.
22:23 < eto> jml2: can you go into why?
22:24 < autopsy> haps could be that you want a Request For Feature Enhancement known as an RFE you can file those in bugzilla too.
22:25 < haps> autopsy: that's what I was hoping to learn - if it's not supported, then I'd like it to be, but I imagine that intel would provide support right away, so it would just be a pull from upstream
22:25 < jml2> eto, you can create virtual bridge devices not connected to your physical ethernet
22:25 < haps> this is a pretty new cpu, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was some support missing.
22:25 < jml2> eto, then hook the macv* things to it
22:26 < jml2> eto, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Network_bridge
22:26 < eto> jml2: okay because i am trying to hook them macv* things with various "virtuals" (tap,dummy) and those don't work
22:27 < eto> jml2: so you say they should work when linked to `brctl `/`ip link add ... type bridge`
22:27 < eto> ?
22:28 < jml2> eto, http://backreference.org/2014/03/20/some-notes-on-macvlanmacvtap/
22:29 < jml2> eto, if i'm correct the macvlan is oriented for host configuration (and not to be configured inside VM guests)
22:30 < jml2> eto, for configuring an ip on a virtual interface inside a VM guest, you would use macvtap.
22:31 < jml2> eto, for binding (like "virtual cabling") the macvtap, you of course first bind it to something on the native host
22:32 < jml2> eto, btw you should be acquainted into using the modern "ip" for bridge making, brctl is still around for legacy purposes..
22:33 < eto> jml2: i am trying it with network namespaces and it seems unless i use veth + bridge the data cannot get accross
22:34 < eto> jml2: strangely ns macv* + physical nic seems to work
22:34 < jml2> (you can asign the end of hte veth pair interface an ip address.. )
22:34 < haps> hi one more quick question: the intel_pstate driver that can be used, I'm assuming it's a kernel module
22:34 < eto> jml2: yes i just wanted to get rid of those veth "patch cables"
22:34 < jml2> eto, yeah you can have that for macvtaps.. that's what they're designed for..
22:35 < haps> but I don't know what module that would be....
22:35 < autopsy> haps you're assumption is a question of sorts?
22:35 < jml2> eto, you can also have a "passthrough" mode where the host cannot see the traffic, and the macvtap hogs all network traffic..
22:36 < g9G6g9gG96> haps: it's a config option CONFIG_X86_INTEL_PSTATE but you can't build it as a module it seems.
22:37 < autopsy> haps there is this for cstate though: /usr/lib/modules/4.13.9-300.fc27.x86_64/kernel/arc
22:37 < autopsy> h/x86/events/intel/intel-cstate.ko.xz
22:37 < ArsenArsen> How does sudo keep track of the time limit per terminal
22:38 < jml2> ArsenArsen, what you smokin?
22:38 < Psi-Jack> Logic.
22:38 < jml2> ArsenArsen, man sudo will tell ya
22:38 < ArsenArsen> jml2, dunno man i just picked the first thing on the corner of the block
22:38 < autopsy> d
22:38 < haps> autopsy: looks like your  bugzilla suggestion was a really good one, this is a very likely hit:
22:38 < haps> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1307185
22:39 < ArsenArsen> I meant how does sudo store the state? Is it somehow modifying the parent's env or?
22:39 < jml2> ^ wooo!
22:39 < jml2> a wa wa wooo!!!
22:39 < Psi-Jack> Nothing that would be controllable by the user, of course.
22:39 < jml2> sudo stores nukes in the United States!!!
22:40  * jml2 ducks! XD
22:40 < Sitri> Arcaelyx: nothing can change the parent's environment like that
22:40 < Psi-Jack> Safer here. :)
22:41 < ArsenArsen> wrong mention, but that aligns with what I thought, so what does sudo do?
22:41 < Arcaelyx> What
22:41 < Psi-Jack> sudo does sudo.
22:42 < Psi-Jack> But does no to Dallas.
22:42 < ArsenArsen> what
22:42 < ArsenArsen> lemme try again
22:42 < Psi-Jack> do*
22:42 < ArsenArsen> how does sudo cache credentials
22:42 < Psi-Jack> How's your C?
22:42 < bnason> My root filesystem is xfs and i need to reduce its size. Can I create a new LV, format it to be smaller (but enough to fit the contents of the old root) and copy everything over? How do I specify that this is now the new root?
22:43 < ArsenArsen> its okay, I guess
22:43 < ArsenArsen> RTFS I'd assu,e?
22:43 < jab416171> bnason, you tell the bootloader it's the new root
22:43 < ArsenArsen> assume*
22:43 < Psi-Jack> Well, read the sudo source code. :_)
22:43 < ArsenArsen> knew it :^)
22:43 < bnason> jab416171, that would be something in the grub config then?
22:43 < jab416171> if you're using grub, yes
22:43 < jab416171> don't forget to update fstab too
22:44 < Psi-Jack> or systemd.mounts. :)
22:44 < eto> jml2: thanks
22:44 < ananke> bnason: adjust your /etc/fstab. that's it.
22:44 < bnason> jab416171, well ideally id create the new lv, move everything over, delete old one and rename the new one to be 'root'. So I shouldn't have to do anything if grub and fstab reference the 'root' lv right?
22:44 < jml2> eto, you tank me I tank you! you're welcome! :p
22:45 < jab416171> bnason, usually fstab and/or your bootloader reference your disks by UUID
22:45 < ananke> bnason: is your /boot part of /, or is it a separate filesystem?
22:45 < jab416171> and/or partition number
22:45 < bnason> ananke, separate
22:45 < ananke> bnason: then your procedure should be ok, but you need to check how your / is referenced in /etc/fstab
22:45 < bnason> so ill have to boot into the old one, update grub to use the new uuid, reboot and then remove the old one
22:45 < TaZeR> i wanna roll back my system for the first time with timeshift but im scared my first resotration will result in a total destruction instead =D
22:45 < TaZeR> and ive been using the backup software for months without testing it yet lol
22:46 < TaZeR> what do you think i should do?
22:46 < bnason> fstab references the /dev/mapper/root
22:47 < Psi-Jack> Pfftt, who even uses fstab anymore? So old. hehe
22:47 < autopsy> Has anyone used cool-retro-term?
22:47 < Loshki> TaZeR: if I were you, I'd do a full backup using *something else". That way, you can still recover if your primary backup scheme isn't all it should be. If you aren't randomly retrieving files off your existing backups to verify they are working, you haven't really tested it at all, have you?
22:47 < triceratux> autopsy: yep its one of the buggiest apps ive ever run across. it finally started working on some distro tho
22:48 < Loshki> autopsy: plenty of uncool, non-retro terminal apps to choose from.
22:48 < autopsy> triceratux, I didn't notice any bugs what bugs did you encounter?
22:48 < g9G6g9gG96> moths!
22:49 < autopsy> Loshki, yeah but cool-retro-term is just cool.
22:49 < Psi-Jack> autopsy: I'm all about the future. Not the distant past.
22:49 < triceratux> autopsy: theres versions of it where the menus just didnt work so you could only use the one theme. its a cute effort ill admit
22:49 < Loshki> autopsy: apparently it's mis-named. It should have been buggy-cool-retro-term. I hate it when they get the names wrong.
22:49 < autopsy> triceratux, it's crazy someone would have thought to emulate a CRT in a window like that.
22:50 < TaZeR> Loshki: the problem is i lack the neccesary secondary media to store a full image backup my secondary 500gb hard drive is all i have to work with hense why i chose the rsync based solution
22:50 < autopsy> Loshki, moths they said.
22:51 < TaZeR> i was hoping to not have to roll back until i buy a new external drive for a second back up, maybe i will try to fix the problem instead of rolling back for now
22:52  * meyou notices people noticing me in other channels
22:53 < jab416171> meyou, we don't share any channels
22:53 < jab416171> lol
22:53 < jab416171> somehow
22:54 < meyou> i guess you have to be a masochist linux desktop user if you want street cred in ehre
22:54 < Loshki> You can't spend ##linux credits outside the channel...
22:57 < eto> jml2: got it working - both ends must be macvlans: macvlan1->dummy0<-macvlan2 or macvlan1->bridge0<-macvlan2
22:57 < eto> jml2: otherwise host doesn't see ether traffic
22:57 < Psi-Jack> Loshki: Huh? Then what have I been doing all these years?
22:57 < eto> jml2: thanks for hints though
22:58 < Loshki> Psi-Jack: you've found a way to exchange it for bitcoin?
23:00 < Psi-Jack> Yeah.. Made millions of dollars off everyone here, without them knowing. :)
23:00 < SuperSeriousCat> Now we know
23:01 < Psi-Jack> It's amazing how so few bytes of data can be so overly overpriced.
23:02 < jml2> eto, dumb you shouldn't be using the dummy interface
23:02 < Psi-Jack> Woops. :)
23:03 < jml2> eto, you should be able to assign ip addresses to the bridge device
23:04 < quint> Is this the correct order of these operation at boot? "crypttab, LVM, fstab"
23:04 < quint> operations**
23:10 < jml2> eto, lol you fixed it? don't use the "dummy" interfaces.. it's ancient and not to be used with these interfaces..
23:10 < jml2> quint, no
23:11 < jml2> quint, grub does its own :).. and then there's the system's order :)
23:11 < triceratux> hrm the bionic beaver isos are appearing this very moment http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases/18.04/release/
23:13 < jml2> eto, if you want to create a sort of "monitoring" on the traffic between vm's, then you should be taking a look elsewhere (openvswitch with a --mirror port)
23:14 < mawk> android uses dummy interfaces
23:14 < mawk> doesn't look that ancient
23:15 < jml2> mawk, shutup kid
23:15  * jml2 ignores mawk :)
23:15 < sponix> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS just dropped --> http://releases.ubuntu.com/18.04/
23:16 < jim> this wouldn't be developing into some kind of argument?
23:16 < mawk> I don't know jim
23:16 < mawk> I just stated something and I got attacked
23:16 < jml2> jim, I ignore anyone who brings up #android
23:16 < mawk> that's the second time he said he's ignoring me, but apparently it's not the case
23:17 < jim> you do understand you're toing a backnforth right now, yes?
23:17  * g9G6g9gG96 prepares the snacks and refreshments
23:17 < Psi-Jack> What's wrong with #android?
23:18 < jim> I'd have to bring it up when suggesing it to someone who might benefit from it
23:18 < xamithan> has anyone upgraded from 16.04 yet sponix ?
23:18 < xamithan> I want to wait out the bugs
23:19 < Psi-Jack> jim: me too. :)
23:19 < qnord> i got a new laptop and it came with a german keyboard, i thought i could get used to it but i found it very annoying to program in, when i try changing the layout back to my old one (uk) with "setxkbmap uk" it tells me "Error loading new keyboard description"
23:21 < jim> mawk, just relax and breathe... that's how to recover from being triggered
23:21 < mawk> lol
23:22 < jim> it's true :P
23:25 < jim> mawk, you don't have to respond to being attacked... or even call it "being attacked"
23:25 < sponix> xamithan: If you want a smoother ride, 18.04.1 is likely a wise choice from my experiences
23:25 < xamithan> stability > smooth
23:26 < xamithan> Don't want to reinstall my work machine
23:26 < sponix> xamithan: I don't do upgrades anymore. Always a fresh install. And it is still downloading for me
23:27 < sponix> xamithan: I'm likely just gonna run it in a VM for a while. And wait to see what Linux Mint has to offer in addition. If they don't produce much, then I'll just do Ubuntu Mate 18.04
23:27 < mawk> I'm sure there's a way to test the upgrade without breaking your machine
23:27 < mawk> using a nice little overlay
23:27 < xamithan> I stopped recommending mint after their ISOs got hacked and they kept blocking patches from upstream
23:28 < Sonolin> lol wut
23:30 < sponix> xamithan: Those little issues ?   When you aspire to be the next Microsoft, you can't help but take on some of their traits :P
23:30 < jml2> xamithan, happened once and the devs were the first to spot it -- they found out later who it was...
23:30 < jml2> xamithan, that happened like 5 years ago
23:30 < Ben64> "and they kept blocking patches from upstream"
23:31 < jml2> xamithan, https://haveibeenpwned.com/ << has the mint forum -- my old address used to show up when verifying with this site.. (its a legit site to test)
23:31 < xamithan> five years ago?  Its only been two
23:32 < jml2> xamithan, i dunno, but i recall it happened and it was resolved very shortly.  there was also the ubuntu forum hack. some ancient visual php plugin that wasn't updated..
23:33 < jml2> xamithan, and countless heartbleed-like bugs as well :P update those kernels :p
23:33 < xamithan> Eh either way,  I don't like how they block stuff so their custom tools doesn't break
23:33 < jml2> xamithan, it happened to ubuntu's community forums twice...
23:33 < jml2> xamithan, do you also recommend ubuntu?
23:34 < Ben64> forum hack isn't the same thing
23:34 < jml2> Ben64, perhaps yes or no, but i think there was an escalation for the mint-iso hack..
23:34 < xamithan> This hacker had admin crendentials in addition to hacking a bug
23:34 < xamithan> He didn't even need to hack the website vuln,  he had admin creds
23:35 < Ben64> i don't like mint's security team
23:35 < heiler> if a program was called inside a bash session, and that session doesn't exists anymore (for any reason), shouldn't this program be killed? how can I force that to happen?
23:36 < jml2> a ubuntu dev gave them a whack when he blogged about the mint security team
23:37 < jml2> heiler, < says he uses telnet and is asking a security question  :)
23:37 < heiler> oh hell. I don't use telnet myself
23:37 < heiler> it's a legacy system
23:38 < koala_man> heiler: if you mean session in the setsid sense, then no, the session isn't gone until all the processes die
23:38 < jml2> xamithan, you should tell people to stop cheating on theri partners XDD remember the madison hack? lol
23:38 < jml2> xamithan, LOL
23:39 < heiler> koala_man the bash process isn't on PS anymore
23:39 < jml2> xamithan, people were abusing sites like haveibeenpowned to see who was a member of the dating site.. eventually that particular database was taken down..
23:39 < heiler> but the program it started is running yet
23:40 < heiler> it seems it dropped from being a bash sub-process to a systemd sub-process
23:41 < jml2> systemd for an ancient system?
23:41 < jml2> LOL
23:41 < heiler> jml2 if you can't help just shut up
23:41 < jml2> heiler, you said it was for ubuntu 12.x ?
23:42 < jml2> heiler, you're assuming too much.. you're getting too ahead of yourself :)
23:42 < blaztek> heiler: how is the program executed from the bash script?
23:42 < heiler> the SO itself is a centos 7.2 but the program being executed is an old database system which probably you never heard of
23:43 < heiler> blaztek the user logins via telnet, telnet.in calls bash, .bash_profile calls the program
23:43 < heiler> it's perfectly shown on "ps auxw -H"
23:44 < blaztek> heiler: but in .bash_profile...does it have a & at the end of the program?
23:45 < heiler> for some reason the in.telnetd -> login -> bash isn't there anymore, but the program is still running, and using 100% cpu
23:45 < heiler> blaztek, no
23:45 < jml2> cant believe you're still on that
23:45 < blaztek> heiler: is it using exec?
23:46 < heiler> it's called just like "natural parm=SATPROD" at the end of .bash_profile
23:46 < jml2> blaztek, and what happens when the user tries to login twice? they probably annihiliate and create mass-data corruption for the so "database" XD
23:47 < jml2> cant tell if this is real or not. telnet and then an auto-script to do something with a "database".  sounds archaic the least.
23:47 < heiler> "natural" is /opt/softwareag/Natural/bin/natural, a binary
23:47 < jml2> heiler, you're not for real are you?
23:48 < jml2> heiler, tell me this is for a self study and not for an actual company
23:48 < g9G6g9gG96> could be a university doing research on irc users
23:49 < heiler> it's the system that accounts all people taxes
23:49 < heiler> city hall company
23:50 < jml2> brazil
23:50 < heiler> anyway, the question remains simple.. the user shel itself isn't there anymore.. why the program which .bash_profile called is yet being executed?
23:51 < heiler> can it trap kernel signals and ignores SIGTERM or something?
23:53 < koala_man> heiler: the answer is equally simple. Processes aren't killed when the shell exits.
23:53 < koala_man> With a few exception, such as stopped and foreground processes receiving a sighup
23:54 < jml2> koala_man, at least he's working at the right place, he's gunna remove his taxes.. smart...
23:54 < jml2> lol
23:54 < heiler> if I login to a system and run a shell loop, will it run forever?
23:54 < koala_man> what?
23:54 < jml2> koala_man, he's working at a city tax center :)
23:54 < heiler> I'll ssh to your box and run "while true; do true; done"
23:54 < jml2> koala_man, he has access to the tax controls :)
23:54 < koala_man> who is? am I part of this discussion?
23:54 < heiler> will it be running forever?
23:54 < jml2> koala_man, (heiler)
23:55 < antichri|st> heiler: put & after it
23:55 < antichri|st> it will run forever after you log out
23:55 < koala_man> heiler: if the shell dies, then no. because that loop is run by the shell
23:55 < blaztek> heiler: it seems that the behavior is normal....I tried it...first.sh called second.sh, I killed first.sh and second.sh is still running...how to avoid that type of behavior...I'm not sure
23:55 < heiler> but there isn't a & after the program being called.. and it is running forever...
23:55 < jml2> koala_man, when he logs i n via telnet, telnet immediate kills itself while at the same time launching something for a database.
23:55 < antichri|st> if its parent process dies it will stop running
23:55 < jml2> koala_man, lol
23:55 < antichri|st> unless it is forked
23:56 < heiler> blaztek any way to prevent that from happening?
23:56  * jml2 thinks heiler is not real and is instead trying to "hack" too hard 
23:56 < heiler> it doesn happen everytime, in this "system"
23:57 < heiler> sometimes the users just logs out and the program is killed
23:57 < heiler> but sometimes not
23:57 < jml2> and that's why starting apps from ~/.bash_profile is stupid..
23:57 < koala_man> do you want it to be killed, or do you want it to not be killed?
23:57 < heiler> it enters in a loop using 100% cpu and we have to kill it manually
23:57 < heiler> to BE
23:58 < blaztek> heiler: I don't know
23:58 < koala_man> heiler: that happens to badly written programs that get confused when their terminal disappears. is this supposed to be a daemon?
23:58 < jml2> heiler, you don't even use Linux I bet, you're just here trying to fix a catch-22 problem..
23:58 < heiler> koala_man it's an interactive program.. remember those ASCII menus and such ??
23:59 < koala_man> heiler: then it's definitely a bug in that program
23:59 < antichri|st> curses?
23:59 < heiler> antichri|st before that ;p curses is too new
23:59 < g9G6g9gG96> put user in it's own pid namespace and when the user logs out, whatever spawns user shell enters namespace to slaughter every pid
--- Log closed Fri Apr 27 00:00:17 2018