--- Log opened Sat Apr 28 00:00:00 2018
00:00 < dviola> I finished limbo the other day
00:00 < kazdax> my brother plays some of his PC games and sometimes we stream online movies on it
00:00 < jml2> kazdax, good question I don't know.. because you need to properly configure it in order to be useful.. and it is HARD to actually calibrate it imho..
00:00 < kazdax> but its not the controller
00:00 < jml2> kazdax, it is extremely configurable with its software interface..
00:00 < kazdax> just the box
00:00 < jml2> kazdax, that it is actually imho confusing for most...
00:00 < kazdax> yea
00:00 < jml2> kazdax, there's "emulation" modes, etc... very confusing.. took me a while to get used to the calibration screens..
00:01 < kazdax> i am gonna stick with what i know
00:01 < kazdax> so okay
00:01 < kazdax> LFS is that going to also teach me aboutt he kernel ?
00:01 < kazdax> or is that a seperate topic
00:02 < jml2> kazdax, its so configurable that I can say it is a dam tool not for young folks..
00:02 < kazdax> thats probably they made it for geeks
00:02 < jml2> kazdax, almost like one has to be in college-level to understand how to calibrate it..
00:02 < jml2> kazdax, they kept updating it, ...
00:02 < kazdax> the whole point of it was for gamers who were also engineers
00:02 < jml2> was 60 bucks when I got it..
00:02 < jml2> and i haven't even dam used it..
00:02 < jml2> lol
00:03 < kazdax> dude having hardware is awesome
00:03 < kazdax> new hardware sure ..i dont mind investing in it
00:03 < kazdax> but if i got no time to use its full potential
00:03 < kazdax> in the time alloted before something better comes..then i find no use for it
00:03 < kazdax> unless ofcourse you use linux for it
00:03 < kazdax> then thats the battle right ?
00:03 < kazdax> hardware vs software
00:03 < jml2> its configurable to even use as a mouse/keyboard tool for its "Desktop" profile..
00:04 < kazdax> hey thats something thats cool jml2
00:04 < jml2> so when the steam store window closes, it will revert to a Desktop profile mode...
00:04 < kazdax> ahh thats neat
00:04 < jml2> and it can do all kinds of things.. I haven't fully tested that, but it has a Desktop profile option..
00:04 < kazdax> so this controller ..does it come with a box ?
00:04 < jml2> and has a profile to work with non-steam games.. and "non-steam controllers" << which is interesting..
00:05 < jml2> x2 confusing when you try to use a non-steam controller
00:05 < kazdax> yea liek games from the pc
00:05 < jml2> because you have to follow 2 mappings...
00:05 < kazdax> i personally used to big huge fan of PC games
00:05  * jml2 means using "valve's controller == steam controller"
00:05 < kazdax> but then i just lost interest
00:06 < kazdax> nothing exceptional has come on yet imho
00:06 < kazdax> it all seems like the same thing just on better hardware
00:06 < jml2> it has very advanced "emulation" configuration options for just about every gamepad/joystick..
00:06 < jml2> and that is pretty cool...
00:06 < jml2> including emulating keyboard presses, etc...  volume keys, ....
00:07 < kazdax> hmm so the steam controller
00:07 < kazdax> does it use an OS ?
00:07 < jml2> ok nuff for me.. gotta get back to my wordpress things xd
00:07 < kazdax> hey jml2 ..i am trying to figure out SEO
00:07 < kazdax> you wanna talk about in pm ?
00:07 < jml2> kazdax, you mean Steam OS? yeah.. but it works on any Linux distribution as well-- with the steam app
00:08 < kazdax> cool
00:08 < kazdax> yea about anything nowdays is gonna be linux
00:08 < kazdax> its open
00:08 < jml2> kazdax, ther'es #steam I think they have more geek players than me I barely use steam XD
00:08 < kazdax> alot of programmers add to it
00:08 < jml2> kazdax, (just a few games lol)
00:08 < kazdax> so far i havnt had a single problem with my linux OS
00:09 < kazdax> back in the day it was usually driver problems
00:09 < kazdax> nowdays ..i dont think it matters if you have a modern hardware
00:09 < kazdax> even if its old hardware that works out well too
00:09 < kazdax> so i am happy
00:09 < kazdax> hey dude ..do what gets you going
00:09 < kazdax> i am about to pour some more rum and coke
00:10 < jml2> kazdax, if you want to get into game programming, get into the habit of poking around with concepts what UE4 is using..
00:10 < twainwek> you seem already under the influence
00:10 < twainwek> oh "some more"
00:10 < kazdax> ill look into it
00:11 < kazdax> so okay the engine is free ?
00:11 < kazdax> and it runs on linux ?
00:12 < jml2> kazdax, 100% free
00:12 < jml2> kazdax, opensource, with "their license" of course..
00:12 < kazdax> ill look into it .. i mean alot of great games are produced with it
00:12 < jml2> kazdax, you'll need to use "git" and "compile" it with many many dependencies and wait a very very long time for it to compile :)
00:13 < jml2> tried it 2 years ago, it compiled and it ran extremely sugglish..
00:14 < jml2> came back 2 years later and they really improved the whole compilation process...
00:14 < jml2> i was impressed at the very steps it took once all -dev dependencies were in place..
00:14  * jml2 has to do other things...
00:19 < kazdax> see ya jml2
00:19 < kazdax> hey does IRC allow you to built up a user friend list or something like that ?
00:20 < kazdax> or you just remember the users ..note them down and check to see if they are online like ping them ?
00:21 < MrElendig> kazdax: some irc clients have a buddy list either built in or as a script/plugin
00:22 < kazdax> ahh okay so i need to look for a script
00:22 < kazdax> thank
00:22 < kazdax> and whats a good looking DE for linux ?
00:22 < kazdax> is KDE plasma the best
00:22 < kazdax> or is there better ?
00:22 < azarus> kazdax: better is subjective
00:23 < Acheron> kazdax, have you tried Cinnamon?
00:23 < MrElendig> gnome
00:23 < jim> if you consider yourself an artist you could probably learn how to alter stuff
00:23 < kazdax> no i havnt tied cinnamon yet
00:24 < kazdax> i will look into it
00:24 < kazdax> i remember when i installed freebsd there was thing on KDE where you could have like a cube
00:24 < kazdax> so you move the screen in 4 different directions
00:24 < kazdax> i thought it was cool
00:24 < kazdax> like you could switch desktop screen
00:24 < kazdax> i dont know if i am making it clear
00:24 < klotz> so like that thing from swordfish
00:25 < xamithan> I think pantheon DE looks pretty sweet
00:25 < klotz> with hugh jackman dancing around
00:25 < xamithan> Deepin too
00:26 < kazdax> i will look these up
00:26 < kazdax> but i do agree with jim..that you could rpobably tune up your own favorite DE to look as good as it can get
00:26 < twainwek> there are two types of desktop environments: 1) KDE and 2) nonfunctional
00:26 < kazdax> specially if you can create your own UI elements
00:26 < kazdax> or what ever they are called in linux
00:26 < xamithan> The thing about KDE is.  It is very very customizable
00:27 < xamithan> Themes they are called
00:27 < kazdax> my favorite when i was a young kid used to be gnome
00:27 < kazdax> but then KDE was the nice looking one
00:27 < kazdax> and gnome was the old school one
00:28 < xamithan> If you want your old school gnome you can use MATE
00:29 < kazdax> what about ubuntu does it have better looking themes ?
00:29 < kazdax> is ubuntu just fresh out of the box better looking ?
00:29 < kazdax> or is that something i am mistaken about ..that ubuntu looked better than most other linux distros
00:30 < kazdax> i dont know why ..but a fresh install of ubuntu seems to look more crisp and vibrant
00:30 < twainwek> ya definitely mistaken
00:30 < xamithan> You are mistaken
00:30 < kazdax> ahh
00:30 < kazdax> thats enligthning
00:30 < kazdax> so its because they are probably just using a theme
00:31 < xamithan> According to google the best theme is https://github.com/horst3180/arc-theme/
00:31 < noway96> so to what do the directories /sys/bus/usb/devices/usb{1,2,3,4} correspond?
00:32 < xamithan> I like to just hitup /r/unixporn to checkout the schemas people are using
00:34 < MrElendig> noway96: usb devices ofcourse
00:35 < MrElendig> by poking the files inside and looking up in hwdb you can find you what those devices are, that is what lsusb does
00:44 < noway96> MrElendig, I'm guessing usb1 contains stuff for USB1 ports, usb2 contains stuff for USB2 ports, etc?
00:45 < sysfault> hello guys, yesterday i dropped an ice cube on my touchpad. i immediately removed it and allowed the touchpad to dry. ever since my mouse isnt working in unity desktop however it works in both gdm and in my windows v7 partitions on the same system. did a locking mechanism of some sort occur when i did that? i dont understand
00:45 < sysfault> i just logged in via gdm to fluxbox and the mouse works
00:45 < sysfault>  what happened in Unity
00:46 < MrElendig> noway96: no
00:47 < MrElendig> noway96: there is no usb 4.0 so that is clearly wrong :p
00:47 < noway96> MrElendig, then what do those mean?
00:47 < MrElendig> and that path has the word "devices" in it
00:47 < MrElendig> which is a hint
00:47 < MrElendig> each dir is a usb device
00:48 < xamithan> usb4 might just be a port right?
00:48 < noway96> Oh, so usb1 is a device, usb2 is a device, etc?
00:50 < noway96> Oh wait, so usb1 are the USBs connected to USB bus 1, and usb2 those on USB bus 2, etc?
00:53 < Loshki> what happened in Unity -- so many people have asked themselves this question, just before abandoning it
01:05 < justsomeguy> How can I test for the presence of a newline at the end of a file, and if it isn't there add one with gawk? I was thinking `awk 'ENDFILE { if ($NL ~ "^$") print "\n" }', but it doesn't work.
01:05 < xamithan> I'm sure #bash knows
01:06 < justsomeguy> xamithan: Ah, I should have asked there first. Or #awk, even. Thanks for the reminder.
01:07 < xamithan> Here is ok too,  just isn't that active currently =)
01:08 < danieldg> justsomeguy: perl -pE '$v=/\n$/; END{ say unless $v }'
01:08  * justsomeguy should really learn perl some day.
01:09 < danieldg> I don't know awk, so we're even
01:10 < mawk> env PYTHONIOENCODING=utf8 python3 -c 'import sys; sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.read().rstrip("\n") + "\n")'
01:10 < justsomeguy> I'm sure it works, but I'm somewhat fixated on figuring out how to do it in AWK. Otherwise I'd just run `tail -n 1 somefile | egrep "^$" || printf $'\n' >> somefile`.
01:11 < mutante> sed -i -e '$a\' file
01:11 < mutante> This adds \n at the end of the file only if it doesn’t already end with a newline. So if you run it twice, it will not add another newline:
01:11 < danieldg> mawk: is the coding needed here? that seems pointless noise otherwise
01:11 < mutante> justsomeguy: that "sed" above was for you
01:12 < mutante> one of the top answers from https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/31947/how-to-add-a-newline-to-the-end-of-a-file
01:12 < mawk> default coding is ascii if I remember correctly danieldg
01:13 < mawk> but you could just use bytes instead of trying to decode yeah
01:13 < danieldg> mawk: and? newlines are ascii
01:13 < mawk> it will decode the rest of the file
01:13 < mawk> not just the end of it
01:13 < justsomeguy> Thanks. That stackexchange post is actually what motivated me to figure out how to do it in awk. I've seen all of those answers before. (Althoug, I will say that the sed one is rather nice.)
01:13 < justsomeguy> *Although
01:14 < mawk> danieldg: python3 -c 'import sys; sys.stdout.buffer.write(sys.stdin.buffer.read().rstrip(b"\n") + b"\n")'
01:14 < mawk> using bytes I/O instead of text I/O
01:15  * danieldg is now tempted to perl golf his line
01:16 < mawk> python isn't good to be interfaced with bash like that
01:16 < mawk> last expression doesn't get printed for instance, that's why I had to put sys.stdout.buffer.write() around it
01:17 < mawk> but you could remedy to that quickly, and make a bash-friendly python wrapper
01:17 < mawk> import a couple modules, add something that prints the last value
01:17 < danieldg> yeah, looping over lines is a nice feature
01:18 < danieldg> well, since perl -pe 's/\n?$/\n/' works, it's hard to get smaller than that
01:19 < justsomeguy> mawk: If you're going to do that, you might as well use something like http://xon.sh/
01:20  * justsomeguy just wanted to show off xonsh
01:20 < mawk> nice
01:20 < mawk> lol
01:20 < mawk> the name isn't great tho
01:20 < mawk> xonsh xonsh
01:21 < xamithan> Better than "fish"
01:21 < justsomeguy> I like my shells to be named after shells. :~}
01:21 < meyou> has some stoner creates KuSH yet
01:21 < meyou> created*
01:24 < beterraba> Guys, when I do "python main.py" in my application, I see that "ImportError: No module named flask". But when I do "pip install Flask" it appears that "Requirement already satisfied: Flask". What might be going on?
01:24 < justsomeguy> Do you have 'import flask' in your file?
01:25 < beterraba> justsomeguy: I have "from flask import x, y, z"
01:25 < Bunk> streamlink is not in my mageia repositories - is there an alternative for it ?
01:25 < jim> maybe capitalizxe the flask, aka import Flask
01:26 < justsomeguy> That was my first thought, jim. I'm probably wrong, though.
01:26 < jim> but now that I said that, not so sure
01:27 < jim> Flask is by convention "the class named Flask"
01:27 < ananke> python modules are notorious for having one 'proper' name, and another for the actual module name you can import
01:28 < ananke> often capitalization being different
01:28 < justsomeguy> beterraba: Have you checked that you installed the flask module for python 3, using "pip3 search flask"?
01:29 < beterraba> justsomeguy: let me try that
01:29 < jim> also try: pip3 install flask (<-- not capitalized)
01:29 < mgolisch> maybe your using a different python installation than the pip you used?
01:29 < justsomeguy> That was my thinking.
01:29 < beterraba> weird
01:29 < beterraba> Traceback (most recent call last):   File "/usr/bin/pip3", line 9, in <module>     from pip import main ImportError: cannot import name 'main'
01:30 < mawk> indeed beterraba
01:30 < mawk> python3 -m pip ...
01:31 < beterraba> mawk: "requirements already sastisfied"
01:31 < beterraba> when doing "python3 -m pip install flask"
01:32 < mawk> yeah better
01:32 < mawk> it's an error from pip itself now, not from python
01:32 < beterraba> This is what I have:
01:32 < beterraba> https://pastebin.com/i37PeKFJ
01:33 < mawk> how do you import flask in your code ? how do you call your code ?
01:33 < mawk> python != python3 by the way
01:33 < beterraba> mawk: The last part I'm aware
01:33 < beterraba> mawk: I'm doing "from flask import x, y, z"
01:34 < mgolisch> it seems your pip is python3 but your python executable is python2
01:35 < mgolisch> python3 main.py ?
01:35 < beterraba> mawk: I`ve tryied to uninstall and install both python and python3
01:36 < beterraba> mgolisch: "ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'flask_sqlalchemy'"
01:36 < mgolisch> yeah so it found python but not some others, that you probably didnt install yet
01:36 < mgolisch> aehm flask
01:36 < jim> beterraba, hmm. what dist are you running?
01:37 < mgolisch> also that python thing seems fucked up if their python is 2 but their pip is 3
01:37 < justsomeguy> I was thinking another possibility is that it's a permissions problem with the modules installed with pip. I get them when my umask is too restrictive and I do 'sudo pip3 install something'. Maybe try installing to a virtualenv to test.
01:37 < jim> careful about running pip as root
01:37 < lupine> best just to remove python
01:37 < beterraba> hum
01:37 < mgolisch> yeah use virtualenvs
01:37 < justsomeguy> Yeah, not the brightest move on my part. I use virtualenvs now.
01:38 < beterraba> jim: ubuntu 18.04
01:38 < qrvpzvb> there's also this envvar that makes pip only work in virtualenvs
01:38 < jim> ok, so a debian deriv... which do you like, python 2 or 3?
01:38 < jim> or do you code in python?
01:38 < mgolisch> probably not
01:39 < beterraba> i use p3 for some applications, but p2 is required for flask, it seems
01:39 < jim> let's see if that's the case
01:39 < stevendale> Hi
01:39 < beterraba> i have an hypothesis that this is broken because anaconda
01:40 < beterraba> the inner links are all mixed up, maybe
01:40 < mgolisch> what is that even?
01:40 < beterraba> anaconda is a package manager, i guess
01:40 < mgolisch> and iam sure flask works fine on python3
01:41 < mgolisch> it does for me atleast
01:41 < mgolisch> http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/0.12/python3/
01:44 < dannylee> its a great day too be alive....hal to linux
01:44 < rascul> looked to me like you got flask installed for python3 and you needed to install more things like flask_sqlalchemy
01:44 < mgolisch> yeah that seems to be the case
01:44 < rascul> flask does indeed work as expected on python3
01:45 < beterraba> but if I do "pip install flask_sqlalchemy"
01:45 < beterraba> Then I get "Permission denied:"
01:45 < rascul> because you're not telling pip to install in your home directory
01:45 < rascul> can't remember what option that is
01:46 < mgolisch> sure pip is still the same thing?
01:46 < mgolisch> if it didnt give you that error before you must have changed something
01:46 < rascul> pip install --user flask_sqlalchemy
01:46 < beterraba> mgolisch: that`s the weird part
01:46 < rascul> maybe you used sudo before
01:46 < rascul> so it got installed system wide
01:47 < beterraba> rascul: that worked!
01:47 < mgolisch> i would highly recommend using virtualenvs
01:47 < rascul> see if there's a requirements.txt
01:47 < jim> beterraba, I -know- sqlalchemy is available for py3
01:47 < rascul> then you can 'pip install --user -r requirements.txt'
01:47 < beterraba> rascul: there is not
01:49 < jim> beterraba, one sec... Im a dummy...
01:49 < mgolisch> even using pip --user doesnt realy solve the problem of needing different versions of stuff which is often the case when jugling multiple projects
01:49 < beterraba> jim: I managed to install sqlalchemy by using --user
01:49 < beterraba> ok, I repeated the procedure to install the missing packages
01:49 < beterraba> now I can run the app
01:50 < beterraba> thanks for that.. There are still errors. but this part is over I guess
01:50 < stevendale> o/
01:50 < beterraba> There is still a confusion about the pip installation though
01:50 < jim> beterraba, you should also be able to: apt-get install python3-flask
01:51 < jim> (-that- you do as root)
01:51 < beterraba> Ok, doing that
01:51 < Evidlo> do mobile phone corporations typically strip out irrelevant drivers from the linux kernel for their devices or just ship the whole kernel?
01:51 < beterraba> So, prompt says to me: "You are using pip version 9.0.1, however version 10.0.1 is available."
01:52 < jim> Evidlo, well drivers for devices you don't have is typically bloat
01:52 < Evidlo> yes, but its only a few hundred megs for the whole kernel
01:52 < beterraba> If I do "pip install --upgrade pip", it says "cannot import main"
01:52 < beterraba> o.O
01:53 < justsomeguy> Evidlo: For android they use a kernel patched with googles power management kernel modules, and drivers through the device tree. They probably leave some things out.
01:53 < mutante> pip sucks, it also lied to me when i said to remove stuff.. didnt actually remove them
01:53 < iflema> Evidlo: more drivers = longer load/start/boot time
01:53 < mutante> then later i can debug why i still have remnants from an old version that conflict with the distro package
01:57 < beterraba> anyway, when I do "python main.py" it returns: "No module named flask_sqlalchemy". Then, when I do "pip install flask_sqlalchemy", it returns: "    from pip import main ImportError: cannot import name 'main'"
01:58 < Sam_S3pi0L> Hi everyone
01:58 < jml2> Sam_S3pi0L, hello
01:58 < iflema> beterraba: dont call it main?
01:58 < iflema> name
01:59 < rascul> beterraba use python3 instead of python
01:59 < jml2> beterraba, you can also do user installs with pip iirc  (see online about using --user) -- this way you can prevent corrupting the system locations
01:59 < rascul> i dunno what happened to pip
02:00 < beterraba> rascul: it seems there`s something incompatible between my app and py3
02:01 < mgolisch> no its your weird/broken 3rd party python installation
02:01 < mgolisch> get rid of that shit
02:01 < Sam_S3pi0L> anyone here work infosec?
02:05 < suttin> Sam_S3pi0L: whats the question. I work closely with our infosec team
02:05 < meyou> the question is, y'all hiring? :)
02:05 < Mistell> Sam_S3pi0L: I'm a cyber security R&D engineer - what's up?
02:06 < suttin> lol, yes
02:06 < suttin> we need splunk admins apparently
02:06 < suttin> I was looking today to see if there was anything cool open in my company
02:06 < lupine> CYBER
02:06 < Mistell> CYBER
02:06 < lupine> what is this, the 90s?
02:06 < lupine> I'm a CYBERPUNK
02:06 < suttin> cyber
02:06 < uplime> can you enhance that?
02:06 < lupine> eiCyberCipher
02:08 < mutante> lupine: yes, it's the 90s and you sing "Cyber Cyber" to the sound of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Twnmhe948A
02:08 < Sam_S3pi0L> suttin, more looking for advice on how to get into infosec
02:08 < Mistell> InfoSec sounds like InfoTech and lordy I ain't no IT tech.
02:08 < lupine> awww yissss
02:09 < suttin> from what I've seen in my company, its getting a job as a vulnerability admin then working your way up
02:09 < suttin> the smart ones don't stick around long
02:09 < suttin> but you have to do the time pestering teams to patch their shit
02:09 < suttin> er
02:09 < suttin> stuff
02:09 < suttin> sorry
02:10 < Mistell> Totally depends on the maturity and style of your sec team. Typically folks will come in as security tech devs or SOC analysts here and support a basic control or yeah, pester IT to patch their shit.
02:11 < Sam_S3pi0L> sutton, will my degree and certs matter at all? I'm about to graduate in about 6 weeks. Been appying hard, no bites yet.
02:12 < suttin> is your degree and certs security related?
02:12 < suttin> I've seen that a degree and certs only really help if someone else is applying that has a similar skillset
02:12 < xamithan> I've never heard of someone hire sec without a few years experience as dev, admin, or engineer first
02:13 < Sam_S3pi0L> suttin, OK. My degree is BSIT with certs in Advanced Infosec and Advanced Networking
02:13 < suttin> school counts as experience
02:13 < xamithan> Maybe where you are from it does =/
02:13 < suttin> it should :/
02:14 < suttin> Sam_S3pi0L: they won't hurt
02:14 < RGamma> So I have this problem with a zombie process that I can't remove. Normally zombies should be reaped by init after I killed their parents, but this doesn't happen
02:14 < RGamma> I've seen https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41625#c1 and wanted to ask how to debug this
02:14 < Mistell> xamithan: I started my career in sec right out of school with no previous sec exp, totally possible.
02:15 < suttin> you might be doing grunt work for a while, just keep that in mind
02:15 < RGamma> Apparently systemd is doing everything correctly, it's just that the kernel doesn't seem to send SIGCHLD properly
02:15 < Roden> has anyone experienced issues connecting android devices to ubuntu and having them show up in file explorer?
02:15 < Roden> I reinstalled the OS on this device, and I still can't get it to register on my buntubox
02:15 < Sam_S3pi0L> suttin, I'm ok with doing grunt work, I just want to get in somewhere.
02:16 < mgolisch> yeah mtp is shit
02:16 < mgolisch> use other means of transfering files to your phone
02:16 < mgolisch> that stuff never works for me
02:17 < mutante> Roden: https://wiki.debian.org/mtp#testing_and_debugging_device_connection
02:17 < rypervenche> Yeah, I use simpleSSHD for Android and then rsync my files off.
02:17 < qrvpzvb> how can mtp be so damn sloooowwww???
02:18 < mutante> what is the reason for them to remove USB mass storage?
02:18 < mutante> which .. just worked
02:19 < Roden> Just when I was excited about saving up enough money for a new phone, one of my idiot agents cost me 200 bucks.
02:19 < gardotjar> Wait, they removed USB support from Android?
02:19 < mutante> ah, i see, it's trying to force DRM on us.. of course it is.. that was my suspicion
02:19 < Roden> I swear to God, dude, every time I get the cash together, this happens again.
02:19 < lupine> no
02:19 < mutante> "MTP is a key part of WMDRM10-PD,[1] a digital rights management (DRM) service for the Windows Media platform."
02:19 < lupine> just get the right phone
02:19 < lupine> e.g. fairphone2
02:21 < mutante> qrvpzvb: because "MTP allows no parallelism, unlike USB mass storage or NAS. MTP has been built to only allow a single operation at a time (for example, read, write or delete operation), while no other operation can be executed until the previous operation is complete."
02:21 < mutante> gardotjar: yes
02:22 < gardotjar> And here I was thinking my cable had broken...
02:22 < qrvpzvb> that clears things up
02:24 < triceratux> Roden: the best luck ive had is gvfs-mtp on thunar on xubuntu. dont know how that translates to nautilus or the rest of the FMs, but sometimes not well
02:25 < qrvpzvb> I think I've used nautilus as well, with gvfs-mtp
02:27 < mutante> another option is to install an rsync client on the phone, like  https://staging.f-droid.org/search?q=rsync
02:27 < mutante> and then try to rsync to your own Linux server
02:27 < dell00> Or you can do KDE Connect.
02:27 < dell00> Nvm.
02:27 < qrvpzvb> or if your phone has an sd slot, use that
02:28 < qrvpzvb> it probably doesn't though or you wouldn't be here
02:28 < mad_hatter> anybody using sublime text w/ rmate to open files remotely, know how to make it work on directories/project folders?
02:29 < triceratux> Roden: theres the adb, & you can even set up OpenSSH on termux on the android device & ssh from linux. those are slightly more cli oriented solutions but they can be quite robust
02:29 < permalink> guys, what happens if i put a init script in /etc/init.d/my-script  and my-script fails to start my service ?
02:29 < qrvpzvb> anything other than vim or emacs isn't a real editor \s
02:29 < gardotjar> You get a "script not found" error on sartup
02:29 < Sonolin> ^^
02:29 < permalink> the boot process will skip my faulty script and continue into OS or the boot wil fail ?
02:29 < Mistell> mad_hatter: Not to say "use another tool" but I used to do exactly that, and switched to vscode + sftp plugin for exactly that, since it functions pretty damn closely to sublime.
02:30 < mad_hatter> Mistell: which sftp plugin for vscode?
02:30 < Mistell> https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=liximomo.sftp
02:31 < Mistell> set up the config file, optionally turn upload on save on, and you're good to go.
02:31 < jml2> ahem visualstudio?
02:31 < dell00> permalink: the former.
02:31 < Mistell> VSCode, not VS*
02:32 < Mistell> VSCode is a totally different tool, I don't like that they used the same name because nothing is similar between them
02:32 < gardotjar> permalink: I could be wrong, but I'm relatively certain the system will skip te faulty script and all will be well, except for the script
02:32 < Mistell> Once's a lightweight electron app built on the same platform Atom was built on
02:32 < Mistell> and well... VS is...
02:32 < jml2> Mistell, LIAR!
02:32 < Mistell> LIAR!
02:32 < gardotjar> LIAR
02:33 < jml2> "Ctrl+Shift+P on Windows/Linux open command palette, run SFTP: config command.
02:33 < jml2> "
02:33 < jml2> lol a Winbloze tool!
02:33 < gardotjar> (I don't know why we are yelling that but I wanted to be included)
02:33 < Mistell> That's the plugin dev man
02:33 < Mistell> blame them for not using the perfectly easy to use context menu api
02:34  * jml2 ignores Mistell 
02:34 < Mistell> LIAR!
02:34  * dell00 ignores jml2
02:34 < dell00> TRUTH!
02:34  * gardotjar ignore a person aswell
02:34 < jml2> I bet he doesn't even know MS owns that domain
02:35  * Konichiwa ignores ignoring...
02:35 < dell00> :)
02:35  * gardotjar ignores the ignoring of ignoring...
02:35 < permalink> gardotjar cool thanks
02:35  * Konichiwa ignorantly ignores the ignoring of ignorings
02:36  * gardotjar get's out before this becomes an inception sequel
02:36 < qrvpzvb> you're an ignoramous
02:36 < Sonolin> sadfsagdsagdsafdsafdsagfsadg
02:36 < dell00> eeoeuoeuaoeuaoeuaoeuoeuaoeuaoeuaoueaoeuaoeu
02:36 < Sonolin> now that makes no sense
02:37 < jml2> qrvpzvb, you just have to read just how ignorant he is.
02:37 < jml2> qrvpzvb, :)
02:37 < Konichiwa> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh7lp9umG2I
02:37 < graps> q/quit
02:38 < iflema> +1
02:38 < Mistell> highscore
02:38 < stevendale> Looking at these two: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DELL-INSPIRON-6000-1-73GHZ-512MB-RAM-60GB-HARD-DRIVE/401528637091?hash=item5d7cf8c6a3:g:5XAAAOSwDlda4j55#shpCntId https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DELL-INSPIRON-1501-AMD-2GHZ-1GB-RAM-120GB-HARD-DRIVE/401528638951?_trkparms=aid%3D777003%26algo%3DDISCL.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140117125611%26meid%3D0f1238fb2fef47d2aa0049a2c8356f17%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3
02:38 < stevendale> D1%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D401528637091%26itm%3D401528638951&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982
02:39 < jml2> stevendale, dont post your tracking id stupid
02:39 < jml2> stevendale, shortify your url..
02:40 < stevendale> jml2 What? o.o
02:41 < jml2> stevendale, like -> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DELL-INSPIRON-1501-AMD-2GHZ-1GB-RAM-120GB-HARD-DRIVE/401528638951
02:41 < jml2> not that hard either
02:41  * jml2 :)
02:41 < triceratux> stevendale: in general everything after the ? in those ebay uris pertains to your particular session. the listing is the stuff in front of it like https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DELL-INSPIRON-6000-1-73GHZ-512MB-RAM-60GB-HARD-DRIVE/401528637091
02:42 < mad_hatter> Mistell: is there a tutorial for how to use this thing? I don't really have any context for how to sync remote directories with a local one
02:42 < stevendale> tHANKS jml2, triceratux o/
02:42 < Mistell> Uh
02:43 < stevendale> Yeah, as I was saying, those would work great with something like Lubuntu 32-bit
02:43 < stevendale> Or Arch
02:43 < Mistell> mad_hatter: Sure, have you made the config file yet?
02:43 < Mistell> or just installed it
02:43 < mad_hatter> I've just installed it
02:43 < Mistell> Actually I'll PM you
02:44 < triceratux> stevendale: you can get a 2G 64bit latitude for the same price range with a slightly larger disk even
02:44 < stevendale> triceratux: US or Australian eBay? Those are Australian
02:45 < xamithan> How much is 45 AUD anyway
02:45 < stevendale> $45 AUD is $34.12 USD
02:45 < triceratux> stevendale: youre in the ballpark. those are the machines linux was designed to run on
02:45 < beterraba> Have a good evening guys. Thanks for the precious help!
02:45 < xamithan> Thats about $30 usd more than that laptop is worth then
02:52 < markasoftware> is there a shell execution bot in here?
02:52 < mad_hatter> Mistell: did I lose you?
02:53 < xamithan> markasoftware: Nah try #bash for that
02:56 < cmj> also https://www.shellcheck.net
02:57 < dannylee> hi
02:58 < Sonolin> hi
02:58 < Mistell> mad_hatter: oops, see the pm log
03:11 < dr4ken> guys, when in a debian based distro i install a package with generic names such as "linux-image-amd64" does that downloads the latest version or what?
03:12 < mgolisch> yes
03:12 < mgolisch> the latest one in your local package cache
03:12 < mutante> dr4ken: you can use this to check what it will pull:  apt-cache show linux-image-amd64 | grep Depends
03:12 < dr4ken> today i was instaling some debian 9's from a usb drive, and during the instalation process i had 2 options, that one and the "linux-image-4.9.xxx-amd64"
03:12 < mgolisch> provided its still available on the mirrors
03:13 < mgolisch> and you dont have restricted it in other ways
03:13 < dr4ken> mutante, mgolisch, so basically the lowest commo denominator on the kernel to weork in my current package config?
03:13 < mgolisch> like some pinning config or s
03:16 < stevendale> Hi\
03:16 < stevendale> I learned something
03:17 < mgolisch> great
03:17 < stevendale> JFS uses less CPU than EXT* even during heavy workloads
03:17 < Psi-Jack> Yeah? Well, I learned something too. Ceph Cache-Tiering with SSD is awesome. :)
03:18 < stevendale> Even though JFS is generally slower
03:19 < triceratux> hah i learned something. i can replace systemd-resolved with dnsmasq on xubuntu 18.04
03:19 < lupine> y tho
03:20 < mgolisch> is it better?
03:20 < Psi-Jack> lupine: "why though", and you already know better.
03:20 < triceratux> so i can undo it later. systemd-resolved is the way of the future
03:20 < lupine> heh, soeey
03:20 < lupine> sorry*
03:20 < lupine> completely forgot
03:20 < mgolisch> systemd-* is the way of the future
03:20 < mgolisch> who needs grub
03:20 < lupine> well, I'm not aware of systemd-grub
03:21 < mgolisch> guess it depends on your needs
03:21 < stevendale> triceratux, Is 18.04 worth the upgrade?
03:21 < mutante> systemd-boot
03:21 < mgolisch> but for most simple stuff systemd-boot works okay
03:21 < mgolisch> atleast for me
03:22 < lupine> awesome
03:22 < mgolisch> only uefi though and it cant do some of the more advanced things grub supports, like encrypted /boot
03:22 < lupine> although grub2 is fine
03:23 < triceratux> stevendale: ive got no issues with it. seems peppy, bugfree, & in step with ongoing tech developments. i was pretty excited by 16.04 but in a way this is a bit better actually
03:23 < lupine> I'll use whatever debian ships at default, i'm not dussy
03:23 < lupine> fussy*
03:23 < jml2> grub2 rocks
03:23 < jml2> f** iso-loop booting
03:23 < jml2> ask the triceratux !
03:23 < jml2> the god of iso igloos
03:23 < jml2> lol
03:23 < mgolisch> yeah its nice, but i kinda like that systemd provides an alternative
03:24 < jml2> squash!!
03:24 < jml2> :p
03:24 < jml2> 'em flat igloos :)
03:24  * jml2 sniffs squashfs!
03:24 < jml2> lupine, dussy?
03:25 < jml2> lupine, you put the d upside down
03:25 < jml2> lupine, fussy
03:25 < markasoftware> https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36190710-savaged-by-systemd
03:25 < lupine> be god
03:25 < jml2> finally i'm getting the hang of wordpress
03:25 < lupine> good*
03:25 < jml2> gdmit
03:25 < jml2> hahahha
03:26  * Psi-Jack is god now.
03:26  * markasoftware sets mode +G on Psi-Jack
03:27 < mutante> jml2: sounds like it's time for a critical security issue in wordpress, heh
03:27 < lupine> such power!
03:27 < irwiss> yeah it's been like 3 months since the last one, about time
03:29 < jml2> wp was updated earlier this month
03:29 < jml2> 4.9.5
03:29 < jml2> :p
03:30 < jml2> and yes I already updated to it :)
03:43 < Psi-Jack> Man. fio randrw, before cache tier, 65KB/s, after 20MB/s.
03:43 < Psi-Jack> That's one heck of a difference.
03:47 < jml2> Psi-Jack, get a life jack.. do some wordpress blogging
03:47 < jml2> lol
03:48 < jml2> cpu number crackhead.
03:48  * jml2 :)
03:48 < jml2> oh yeah you use "drupal". meh!!
03:48 < jml2> crap framework!
03:49 < solidfox> jml2, no u
03:52 < mutante> "According to CVE data (Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures), Drupal encountered the least number of cyber attacks since 2005"
03:53 < mutante> compared to Wordpress and Joomla.
03:53 < xamithan> Was GHOST on the list
03:53 < xamithan> And was that for pure wordpress or plugins wordpress
03:55 < mutante> don't know. source was  https://www.getastra.com/blog/cms/security-comparison-of-cms-wordpress-vs-drupal-vs-joomla/
03:57 < Psi-Jack> jml2: Actually just before Drupalgedden 2, I switched to Grav.
04:25 < Psi-Jack> precise: Please stop that
04:25 < precise> Psi-Jack: stop what?
04:25 < Psi-Jack> precise: Nick change flooding every channel you're in.
04:26 < precise> Psi-Jack: sry
04:26 < Psi-Jack> "sorry" for future corrections. T
04:33  * Psi-Jack chuckles.
04:36 < markasoftware> what's the name of that one X utility that logs all keys and buttons pressed in a little window to the console?
04:36 < Psi-Jack> markasoftware: You want a keylogger? :P
04:36 < markasoftware> oh xev nevermind
04:36 < markasoftware> nah just trying to figure out w hat the buttons on my mouse are
04:36 < Psi-Jack> Ahh.. That.
04:37 < rec0de> .
04:37 < suttin> wait, is my keyboard... a keylogger?
04:37 < suttin> I need to tell my infosec team that every computer in the company has a keylogger plugged in
04:37 < Psi-Jack> suttin: Yes.
04:37 < justsomeguy> Well, it logs keys.
04:37 < suttin> if only they had a sense of humor
04:38 < markasoftware> Are there any "gaming" mice that have buttons that are configurable under Linux?
04:38 < RustyJ> ;;
04:39 < suttin> markasoftware: theres another x utility that lets you remap keys to macros
04:39 < suttin> I forget what its caled
04:39 < srukle> haha
04:39 < markasoftware> oh razercfg is a thing, that's cool but I have logitech :(
04:40 < suttin> xev can remap keys
04:40 < suttin> or mabe you need xmodmap too
04:40 < justsomeguy> Logitech are usually more compatible with Linux distros, no?
04:40 < markasoftware> it's not a key though
04:40 < suttin> it will show up as a key
04:40 < markasoftware> the logitech software on windows lets you set the mouse buttons to emulate other keys
04:41 < markasoftware> then it's not possible totell the difference between that button and other keys without a special driver
04:41 < markasoftware> looks like razer is the answer
04:41 < justsomeguy> I think you should do more research -- trying to get my razer naga to work has been a nightmare.
04:42 < jaggz> my ssh lets me run x programs (locally), but when I resume my screen session it doesn't work from within that, with "X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication."
04:42 < suttin> pretty sure each mouse key will have a unique ID, and you can use xmodmap to make your own macros
04:42 < xamithan> Can't xbindkeys do all that ?
04:42 < xamithan> At least for logitech
04:44 < markasoftware> for example, a while ago on windows i set one of the macro buttons to be the same as pressing scroll
04:44 < markasoftware> in xev, whether i press the scroll wheel or the other button, xev reports the exact same thing in the terminal
04:44 < xamithan> xev gives the button ids,  then you just map them with xbindkeys,  or xmodmap
04:45 < jaggz> ugh.. it needs this xauth extract stuff .. then xauth merge
04:50 < turbo64> fucking steam on linux is horrible
04:50 < Psi-Jack> turbo64: Kindly mind the language, please.
04:51 < turbo64> the tray icon defaults to white for dark panels and theres no way to change it in the options, so you have to manually change the icon file
04:51 < turbo64> but then steam updates and overwrites it, so i make it read only and even chown it as root
04:51 < turbo64> steam still overwrites it
04:51 < turbo64> i dont even know how
04:51 < turbo64> i ended up having to use chattr to make it read only to get steam to leave it alone
04:52 < turbo64> Psi-Jack: we're all adults here
04:52 < turbo64> this isn't a church
04:52 < Psi-Jack> turbo64: Well, channel rules. You can follow 'em, or you can take your conversations elsewhere.
04:52 < Shibe> hi so i upgraded to ubuntu 18.04, but my graphics drivers are messed up(tearing, libegl not loading, etc), is there any command i can use to install all my mesa packages?
04:53 < turbo64> Foul language is strongly discouraged, excessive use of foul language is not allowed.
04:53 < turbo64> i said fuck once, thats not excessive
04:53 < turbo64> well twice now but thats still not excessive
04:53 < jml2> justsomeguy, Logitech is bad... they make cheap mice in china (Eg, the logitech g500) and there is no way to fix this "double click" issue unless there is a non-official patch -- X11 devs don't care about crap like this XD .. two mice useless thanks to cheap Logitech...
04:54 < Psi-Jack> !ops turbo64 Language
04:54 < jml2> justsomeguy, (and yes I have two of these mice)
04:54 < turbo64> Shibe: you made a big mistake upgrading
04:54 < turbo64> or even using ubuntu to begin with for that matter
04:54 < turbo64> use fedora
04:54 < Shibe> thanks for being helpful
04:54 < justsomeguy> Oh boy.
04:54 < jml2> justsomeguy, their "Windows driver" actually wouuld be using a double-click compensation in a short time frame...
04:54 < turbo64> also you can do apt install *mesa*
04:54 < turbo64> and it will install everything with mesa in the name
04:54 < jml2> justsomeguy, Linux is not stupid to add unncessary compensation because of cheap hardware like this..
04:54 < turbo64> if that doesnt work then thats not the problem
04:56 < turbo64> Psi-Jack: i didnt violate the rules so dont waste the chanops time with frivolous reporting
04:56 < jml2> justsomeguy, if you want to be sure of Linux compatibility, you can check out the things at plugable.com or look for vendors who mention "Linux" on their products..
04:56 < jml2> justsomeguy, that's the way I tend to shop, look for those companies who actually spend a penny to print "Linux" and be happy you are giving $$$$ to the right company. not LOGITECH.  :)
04:56 < jml2> lol
04:56 < turbo64> in any case the ops here dont respect the rules either, the other day one of them was saying racist things and he banned me for asking him to stop
04:57 < justsomeguy> jml2: FYI, I'm not the person who asked about compatibility originally. Sounds like good advice.
04:57 < jml2> justsomeguy, ye, and for anybody... i hate those companies they deserve being bad-mouthed about...
04:57 < jml2> justsomeguy, 'em crackers...
04:57 < dannylee> i have royal blue eye
04:58 < justsomeguy> Yup. I really wish more companies made Linux compatibility a consideration.
04:59 < dannylee> linu8x will be oK..linux is still growing>>>
04:59 < triceratux> jml2: i looked at the blogs & logs & ubuntu has been using 127.0.0.53 since 17.04. so theyve had a year to get it working for the lts release. its still surprising how its not mentioned in the "heres whats new with bionic beaver" blogs
05:00 < Shibe> turbo64: thanks! that fixed my problem
05:00 < Shibe> egl seems to be working now
05:00 < Shibe> and the tearing should be fixed too
05:02 < ||JD||> turbo64: there are some user on this channel that are well known for abusing op powers
05:02 < turbo64> i dont know why ubuntu wouldnt install that by default
05:02 < turbo64> the new release doesnt seem too good
05:03 < ||JD||> just put them on ignore and try to not curse too much
05:03 < ||JD||> and youll be fine
05:03 < turbo64> also theres a memory leak in gnome 3.28 that they didnt fix
05:03 < toothe> what does command 0< file do?
05:03 < toothe> the 0< specifically.
05:05 < triceratux> ruh roh theres differences of opinion on whether the memory leak was fixed https://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-18-04-faq/
05:06 < jml2> that's a good site itsfoss.com
05:06 < jml2> tecmint.com is another decent goodie in my bookmarks..
05:07 < triceratux> the rest of the google hits look horrid. glad im running xfce
05:07 < cmj> assuming mint distro
05:07 < jml2> discovered one can also open textfiles (now that gksu has been dropped) -- in nautilus by using admin:///etc/<path to a textfile>  in the location bar...
05:07 < jml2> (from a blog somewhere)
05:08 < jml2> oops gksudo i think was the one that was dropped (typo)
05:08 < jml2> y. initially -- ya it is gksu..
05:08 < cmj> is nautilus the gnome frontend?
05:08 < jml2> confusing names
05:08  * jml2 relating to this article https://itsfoss.com/gksu-replacement-ubuntu/
05:09 < jml2> ctl-l i think in nautilus allows to type the path in the location bar..
05:09 < jml2> the alternative is of course to gksu in terminal, that's the safer bet --in case the wrong application is associated somewhere..
05:14 < twainwek> toothe: 0 --> input file descriptor, < --> input
05:15 < dannylee> tilix is really c00000l
05:15 < toothe> ah..yes, I figured it out.
05:15 < mad_hatter> Mistell: care to PM one last time? I have a quick question about this sftp plugin
05:15 < toothe> dannylee: I would use it, but I can't switch between channels on this IRC terminal.
05:16 < dannylee> ok
05:16 < toothe> man, IOMMU still breaks HDMI audio!
05:16 < toothe> this is a 3 year old bug in the kernel
05:16 < toothe> and hasn't been resolved!
05:16 < dannylee> most of the time i use guake
05:25 < nai> hi, where are linux's system call numbers documented? i'm looking for a canonical place, like a man page
05:27 < nai> (and they're not in syscall(2) or syscalls(2))
05:28 < pnbeast> Well, did you check syscall_with_an_'s'(2)?
05:28 < nai> see ^
05:31 < nai> however that man page seems to point the reader to the kernel's source code
05:31 < nai> so i think that's my answer
05:34 < nai> /usr/include/asm/unistd_64.h  on my system contains the name-to-number mapping
05:50 < lwa5> do we use sssd or nscd in linux?
05:50 < Psi-Jack> lwa5: How many are you?
05:51 < lwa5> Psi-Jack: just 1.. i randomly type a nick ;)
05:51 < Psi-Jack> lwa5: How many personalities are you then? You asked "we" :)
05:52 < lwa5> Psi-Jack: haha just one :)
05:52 < Psi-Jack> Okay then. Well, nscd is just a caching daemon. And a painful one at that. I recommend avoiding it like the plague that it is.
05:53 < Psi-Jack> sssd does a different kind of caching, allowing logins from disconnected systems for weeks after the fact, when it cannot itself connect to the LDAP server needed.
05:53 < Psi-Jack> sssd was designed, in part, for use with FreeIPA, but can work independantly.
05:58 < lwa5> Psi-Jack: sure currently which one we use in a normal RHEL machine
05:58 < jml2> lol
05:59 < jml2> sssd is for advanced things...
05:59 < Psi-Jack> My statement stands the same.
05:59 < jml2> unless you do site-site things you will never encounter sssd
06:01 < jml2> cat /proc/mdstat shows personalities
06:01 < jml2> Psi-Jack, ^
06:02 < jml2> XD
06:02 < cmj> hey, Psi-Jack
06:02 < jml2> google.com/fonts is sweet
06:02 < jml2> me like my fonts
06:16 < lwa5> can we use chattr -i <file> to make the file immutable so that no one can delete the file except me
06:19 < jml2> lwa5, to fix something? that's totally lame.. you should find out what you're trying to do.
06:19 < jml2> lwa5, :)
06:19 < lwa5> not to fix something.. how can we make the file immutable
06:20 < kremator> guys, which is the most anarchic distro out there? black arch? a broken debian instance? gentoo with all gnomeinstalled?
06:20 < lwa5> i get this chattr: Operation not permitted while setting flags on test1
06:23 < craigify> anybody else looking at ubuntu mate now that 18 LTS is out?
06:25 < ||JD||> thanks, but no thanks
06:26 < craigify> oh?
06:26 < craigify> I've got it in a VM now
06:27 < craigify> I'm remembering using gnome2 years ago
06:28 < kremator> craigify, for some reason everybody is looking at MATE for 18.04
06:28 < kremator> i mean, nobody is looking at Xubuntu 18.04 or kubuntu (and ofc nto at vanilla)
06:28 < craigify> I guess because of unity going away
06:29 < kremator> craigify, idc about unity lovers, i did think in 2014 and still think unity is a piece of "organical waste material"
06:30 < kremator> i used to hate gnome aswell, but i just saw how it looks by default in the debian 9 version on the repository
06:30 < kremator> and i fell in love with, sadly i cant install it without feeling is too much bloat for my work computer
06:31 < craigify> oh you mean you like the vanilla gnome much better?
06:31 < craigify> as opposed to whatever ubuntu has done to it
06:31 < kremator> craigify, definitely
06:34 < craigify> you know, in 20+ years of using Linux, I've never actually run Debian
06:34 < jim> kremator, you -could- start from the debian base and install the stuff from there
06:34 < craigify> I've run debian derived distros
06:35 < kremator> jim, that's what i did, but still to much bloat
06:35 < kremator> i think it's more like pasychological thing
06:36 < kremator> craigify, youy are not loosing anything really, all "debian derived" are either, debian + some wallpapers and different defaults, ubuntu's, debian with security patches and ufw installed by default
06:36 < jim> (unless gnome the way debian has it set up is too bloated) that should minimize the bloat...
06:36 < jim> well, do you have stuff like build-essential installed?
06:37 < jim> also there's gnome-core and gnome-full (all of which require some x server)
06:38 < kremator> jim, yes, but i dont think "compiling my advanced setup of my Graphical Enviroment" could be considered "work" at my job so...
06:38 < kremator> jim, i just usually do "apt install task-gnome-desktop" and call ti a day
06:40 < ||JD||> I used to hate gnome too but I must admit gnome-3 works incredible well, I started using it a month ago after years with xfce and I don't regret at all
06:40 < fr0b> heretic!
06:40 < ||JD||> lel
06:40 < kremator> fr0b, the only true heresy for a xfce user as us, is moving to MATE
06:41 < craigify> haha
06:41 < craigify> I feel like I need a new desktop environment
06:41 < craigify> and I don't know which one yet
06:41 < craigify> JD, how many monitors do you use?
06:42 < ||JD||> craigify: on this machine just one
06:42 < kremator> craigify, which do you sue atm?
06:42 < jim> well the thing is that, while build-essential isn't huge in and of itself (gnome is much larger, I'd say), it is large enough, and doesn't have to do specifically with gnome itself... if you have all the apps installed (incl. tex, openoffice, games, etc), that's a -lot-
06:43 < kremator> jim, does gnome comes with games?
06:43 < kremator> games!?!?!
06:43 < jim> heretic, theretic, everywheretic tic
06:43 < kremator> finally, a good proficient way of wasting time at job
06:43 < craigify> a proficient way of wasting time would be compiling gentoo
06:43 < jim> kremator, the board and card games at least
06:44 < kremator> craigify, technically, that wouldnt waste my time but waste my machine's computing time
06:44 < kremator> jim, so nothing like the pinball that came with winXP?
06:45 < stevendale> Why on Earth is anybody using XP
06:45 < jim> kremator, I believe you install at least some of the games with the task- thing
06:45 < stevendale> Debian has much lower system requirements
06:45 < stevendale> Not to mention highly superior hardware support
06:45 < craigify> I really like gnome 2
06:45 < craigify> I really liked it then
06:46 < craigify> and I still like it
06:46 < jim> stevendale, didn't you say xp is better than ubuntu?
06:46 < craigify> and I like rolling up windows
06:46 < craigify> like in the days of gnustep
06:46 < arvut> where is the kernel config config stored other than the sourcedir and /boot?
06:46 < arvut> is it somewhere in /proc?
06:46 < stevendale> jim, Changed my mind, also - was saying Debian, not Ubuntu
06:47 < kremator> craigify, wait, i though gnustep does still exist
06:47 < craigify> arvut, what do you mean by kernel config?
06:47 < jim> arvut, that one, thats where the kernel outputs its own config
06:47 < jim> and that depends on the config parameter for that being enabled
06:47 < arvut> jim: do you know where it is? I kinda messed up, need to recreate current config so I can build new kernel
06:48 < craigify> kremator, I think the project was re-instated.  I saw a post somewhere about gnustep
06:48 < arvut> I deleted all sourcedirs in /usr/src/ that contained a .config, along with the ones in /boot/
06:48 < craigify> which made me start thinking of different window managers
06:48 < jim> arvut, do you want to build a debian package of the kernel? (do you run a debian deriv?)
06:48 < arvut> jim: no, I want the config from currently running kernel, I run gentoo
06:49 < craigify> arvut,you're talking about the cofig file that you used to compile a kernel from source?
06:49 < arvut> so I can build 4.16.4
06:49 < arvut> craigify: yes
06:49 < jim> try /proc/config.gz
06:51 < craigify> arvut, It's been a long time since I've compiled a kernel, and then there was no copy of that except in the source directory itself
06:52 < arvut> it seems to work, thanks jim
06:52 < jim> debian (and derivs) have this special thing, where they put the config in /boot of a kerne that was compiled into a debian package
06:52 < craigify> arvut, you were able to locate it in /proc?
06:52 < arvut> copied config.gz to builddir, uncompressed and renamed to .config, building now
06:52 < arvut> craigify: yes, its in proc as jim said
06:53 < craigify> awesome
06:53 < arvut> I just hope my config is untouched, no new features in 4.16.5 (was running 4.16.2)
06:53 < jim> arvut, welcome... and, be sure to enable the kernel source config parameter that enables the config appearing at /proc/config.gz
06:55 < arvut> jim: I'm sure its enabled, as I had a /proc/config.gz file there already
06:56 < arvut> gonna build .4 sources too, I like to have a fallback if .5 fails
06:56 < jim> yeah, that .config should have that option enabled
07:01 < jim> arvut, the way I did it, I would copy /proc/config.gz to my home dir, and give it a kernel-versioned name...
07:02 < kremator> did just we got a core dump at network?
07:03 < jim> arvut, then in the kernel source dir, run make mrproper; copy the config to .config, run make oldconfig (and prepare for whatever new stuff is there), then run the configurator of your choice (menuconfig, xconfig, something else?)
07:04 < jim> kremator, as you can see, it has something to do with tor-sasl
07:04 < AOL_> hmm
07:05 < kremator> jim, funny, i always connect from tor, just today not because i just got enough of its shitty service
07:05 < kremator> i know it's free and truly private and etc
07:06 < kremator> but i just cant afford use it when i connect from a 5 Kbps connection
07:06 < AOL_> jim: was there a mass severing of tor connections just now?
07:06 < kremator> AOL_, it's probably a core node that failed
07:07 < AOL_> i wondered if it was only me
07:07 < kremator> nope, a lkot of tor users just dropped (the bass)
07:07 < jim> AOL_, yeah, more than just you, maybe a half screenful
07:07 < AOL_> i just mentioned tor in #dogecoin, and then a `remote host closed socket` disconnection
07:07 < AOL_> it was just after i asked for DOGE tor addnodes
07:08 < AOL_> strange
07:08 < kremator> AOL_, it's the destiny
07:08 < AOL_> :)
07:08 < kremator> DOGECOIN 1000$ USD EOY
07:10 < Psi-Jack> No thanks.
07:11 < kremator> Psi-Jack, just imagine how many distro dvds you could buy with the richness
07:11 < Psi-Jack> 0. Because I download them, for free, except, I don't really download them anymore because I make my own, locally.
07:14 < arvut> jim: from about 4.10 or so, the make oldconfig is done by default, I just have to run "make && make modules_install && make install" and it'll be built correctly
07:14 < AOL_> Psi-Jack: any chance you could link a quick pastebin of that mass tor d/c
07:14 < Psi-Jack> No.
07:14 < AOL_> YES
07:15 < AOL_> i will tip you 6.66 DOGE
07:15 < arvut> jim: oh, and yes I copied the currently working .config to /root/ as .config-4.16.5 to keep track of it, after kernel successfully built
07:16 < arvut> jim: is debian on 4.17 sources yet?
07:16 < arvut> as in, patched debian sources, if such exists
07:17 < Psi-Jack> 4.17 isn't even out of rc yet.
07:17 < arvut> 4.17-rc2 is available in gentoo
07:17 < Psi-Jack> It's masked, no?
07:17 < arvut> I've had rc1 for about two weeks
07:17 < Psi-Jack> And?
07:17 < arvut> I suspect rc3 will drop by on monday
07:18 < Psi-Jack> Point? heh
07:18 < arvut> gentoo-sources are still on 4.16 tree
07:18 < Psi-Jack> Exactly.
07:18 < arvut> git-sources are on 4.17
07:18 < Psi-Jack> Because... git.
07:18 < Psi-Jack> Next?
07:19 < arvut> I'm not getting what you're trying to say, Psi-Jack
07:19 < Psi-Jack> The feeling is mutual. :)
07:20 < arvut> just wondering if another distro has moved to .17 tree yet
07:20 < Psi-Jack> 4.17 isn't out of rc yet. :p
07:20 < arvut> which means?
07:21  * Psi-Jack shakes his 8-ball. "My sources say no."
07:22 < arvut> 4.16 tree isn't marked as stable in gentoo, latest stable there is 4.9.95
07:23 < arvut> I'm pretty sure there were some stable sources in 4.14 though, but they are not there anymore
07:23 < Psi-Jack> Well, because, $gentoo
07:24 < arvut> I like to play around with bleeding edge on things, sometimes git-sources just won't boot properly
07:25 < arvut> gentoo-sources pretty much never fails though
07:25 < stevendale> Debian Stable is pretty good
07:25 < stevendale> It runs on 28 MB RAM
07:26 < stevendale> https://www.debian.org/releases/squeeze//amd64/ch03s04.html.en
07:26 < stevendale> "Depending on the architecture, it is possible to install Debian with as little as 20MB (for s390) to 60MB (for amd64)."
07:26 < jml2> stevendale, that was back then you noob. minimum is like 80+ MB now with the latest..
07:26 < jml2> stevendale, (minimal installs)
07:27 < jml2> stevendale, you want to go minimalist, you can check out tinycore..
07:27 < jml2> stevendale, distro fits in 12mb as an iso
07:27 < arvut> you can probably trim your sources to run on even less
07:27 < jml2> stevendale, (tinyX -- has a gui)
07:28 < arvut> embedded stuff runs on like 2MB ram
07:28 < arvut> gumsticks and such
07:28 < jml2> yeah anything with "busybox" will strip a lot of overhead..
07:28 < jml2> which all those linux embedded devices use...
07:29 < arvut> musl instead of glibc
07:29 < stevendale> Brb
07:31 < superguest> I am in disagreement with unzip(1) manpage. It says that "Regular expressions (wildcards) may be used to match multiple members" for the  '[files(s) ...]' argument
07:31 < superguest> but I believe it instead recognizes  *shell patterns* and not "regular expressions"
07:32 < superguest> for example the following works:
07:32 < superguest> unzip "*.zip" '*.ttf'
07:32 < superguest> '*.ttf' is a shell pattern
07:33 < superguest> I was expecting to use something like: '.*\.ttf'
07:36 < jml2> no "*.ttf" is a shell pattern
07:36 < jml2> ' ' blocks the shell from expanding *
07:36 < jml2> lol
07:36 < jml2> * is a glob
07:37 < jml2> regex with * is when you pass it as a literal and is escaped from the shell
07:37 < hexnewbie> superguest: Wildcards are a subset of regular expressions with a different syntax. But yeah, that doesn't make the man page any less ridiculous.
07:38 < jml2> superguest, the shell expands the glob before the program can even recognized they were expanded..
07:38 < jml2> so the shell takes care of any unescaped globs first..
07:39 < hexnewbie> jml2: From what I take it, that's not superguest's concern. It's the badly written the man page.
07:39 < jml2> ' ' < is an escape and you are tring to pass a file literally called '*.ttf'
07:39 < jml2> you can have file called-> touch \*.txt
07:39 < jml2> cat
07:40 < jml2> cat \*.txt
07:40 < jml2> would only cat 1 file
07:40 < superguest> jml2, haha, the single quotes are used to illustrate the token (argument) in discussion.  But yea, I understand what you are saying.
07:40 < jml2> or cat '*.txt'  -- is 1 file
07:40 < jml2> \ and '' are escaping the glob to be treated as a literal..
07:40 < AOL_> `` '' "" very different
07:41 < jml2> ' '
07:41 < jml2> single quotes
07:41 < hexnewbie> Meaningful `` is one of those bad ideas.
07:41 < jml2> ''  ,< i typed my single quotes too closely XD
07:41 < jml2> 'something here'
07:41 < jml2> yeah the "options" explanation are "symbolic" and have no "semantical" meaning
07:41 < superguest> jml2, but it is required that you protect '*.tff' from expansion by the shell
07:42 < jml2> like [ ] <<< means option when you read the manpages..
07:42 < superguest> '*.tff' (literally) is for the command unzip(1) itself
07:42 < jml2> [ a | b ]  << a or b as optional , it doesn't mean you need to specify [ on the command,
07:42 < jml2> same idea with `
07:42 < jml2> ^
07:43 < jml2> whatever that tick is supposed to represent -- you need to interpret it correctly as how the manpage is presenting it to you..
07:43 < hexnewbie> superguest: I'd file a bug
07:43 < superguest> hexnewbie, yes, I think you understand exactly what I am after.
07:44 < superguest> hexnewbie, *exactly* (worth repeating once more) :-)
07:46 < superguest> It's not like I am trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, b/c I really wasn't familiar with unzip(1) and I had to extract a buncha font files I downloaded from www.dafont.com
07:46 < jml2> superguest, yeah i looked at that manpage right now, you didn't read the next sentence XD
07:46 < jml2> " Again, be sure to quote expressions that would otherwise be expanded or modified by the operating system."
07:46 < jml2> :)
07:46 < jml2> like I mentioned :)
07:47 < hexnewbie> jml2: It's not about the quoting.
07:47 < jml2> just reflecting on his quote. the very next sentence was that.
07:47 < hexnewbie> jml2: Wildcards are not regular expression, neither by syntax (standard syntax), nor by expressiveness.
07:47 < superguest> hexnewbie, please, explain what I was after.  The gentleman  is trying to give me a lesson on shell expansions and regex.
07:47 < jml2> hexnewbie, uh wrong user
07:48 < jml2> lol
07:48 < hexnewbie> Or at least I think they aren't. I don't fully remember my college course in regular languages, and I'm too high to conclusively state I can't express one with just ?, * and []
07:49 < jml2> hexnewbie, i was informing him on symbolic stanzas that he may have read, so i took a peek at what he read...
07:49 < superguest> hexnewbie, forget the whole unzip(1) discussion.  I want to know what you are on
07:49 < superguest> I want some
07:49 < superguest> :-)
07:49 < jml2> " [file(s)]
07:49 < jml2>                An  optional list of archive members to be processed, separated by spaces.  (VMS versions compiled with VMSCLI defined must delimit files with commas instead.  See -v in OPTIONS below.)  Regular expressions (wildcards)
07:49 < jml2> *              may be used to match multiple members; see above.  Again, be sure to quote expressions that would otherwise be expanded or modified by the operating system"
07:49 < jml2> (man unzip)
07:51 < hexnewbie> superguest: Boring stuff, painkillers (headache), although I did take more than allowed. It's not even cough medicine (those used to give me hallucinations)
07:51 < csharpRU> What painkillers are they?
07:52 < superguest> are you on that sizzrup?
07:52 < hexnewbie> csharpRU: I mixed ibuprofen, paracetamol, propyphenazone and caffeine.
07:53 < jml2> superguest, you can send the * between " "  (double quotes) , you should be able to .. depending on the tool you have to differentiate how it would treat "*" as opposed to '*' ..
07:53 < jml2> superguest, and that can be confusing at times...
07:54 < jml2> superguest, if you dont use any quotes, then the shell automatically expands it before unzip uses arguments
07:54 < superguest> jml2 I think you are still confused on what I was trying to point out.
07:54 < superguest> I was pointing out that the [files(s)...] argument shouldn't be referred to as "Regular expression"
07:54 < jml2> superguest, I think you're not  understanding the dilemma in understanding that programs can have a strict order on certain quotations :)
07:54 < hexnewbie> Should in theory be safe to be taken together in the amount I took, except I'm not a doctor and I'm definitely high.
07:55 < jml2> superguest, there's at least 7 regex things out there... so I wouldn't bother much interest on that.
07:55 < superguest> jml2, no I am not.  My question nothing to do with quotations.
07:55 < jml2> superguest, pretty much you only care about * and that's that..
07:55 < csharpRU> hexnewbie Be careful mate. :-) I take codeine every four hours and morphine every 12 hours (prescribed) and I have started to get stomach pains from taking all those tablets.
07:56 < superguest> jml2, apparently you are the only person who doesn't get it.
07:56 < superguest> Shell pattern != Regex
07:56 < jml2> superguest, I think you're not well experienced to know that there's not only 1 regex out there.
07:56 < jml2> superguest, so whatever you want to call it is irrelevant :)
07:56 < superguest> it's not what I call it.  it's what the manpage says.
07:56 < jml2> wow did I ever say a shell pattern was a regex?
07:56 < jml2> idiot!
07:57  * jml2 takes a break from dumbness :)
07:57 < csharpRU> :-o
07:57 < superguest> For fuck sakes, It's good that other ppl are aroudn while this bullshit is occuring.  jml2, neither was about question about that
07:58 < csharpRU> Chill Winston. :-D
07:58 < csharpRU> @jml2
07:58 < superguest> chsarpRU and I have been
07:58 < superguest> I called him ma gentleman and all
07:58 < superguest> but coottt dammn
07:58 < Psi-Jack> superguest: Kindly mind the language.
07:58 < csharpRU> lol
07:58 < hexnewbie> jml2: There may be more than one way to write a regular expression, wildcards are *not* one of them. There are regular languages that cannot be represented with wildcards, in particular [0-9]{1,} is impossible to write using wildcards
07:59 < theos> hi
07:59 < GueSuper> i have a patch file that contain diff of 3 files, how can i use it to patch only 1 file and ignore the other two?
08:00 < hexnewbie> GueSuper: You can manually delete the other two, or use filterdiff to edit the patch file.
08:01 < hexnewbie> GueSuper: filterdiff -i '*/name_of_file.ext' file.patch
08:01 < GueSuper> thanks
08:03 < jim> GueSuperif you want to do it manually, you can look for the part of the patch that patches the file you want, and copy it to another patch file
08:03 < GueSuper> jim: tried to view with text editor, it say the file is binary
08:04 < jml2> "<superguest> but I believe it instead recognizes  *shell patterns* and not "regular expressions""  << lol
08:04 < jml2> i'm going...
08:04 < jml2> lol
08:04 < jml2> separate the two.
08:04 < jml2> thank you
08:05 < superguest> that's lame.
08:11 < hexnewbie> GueSuper: Is it .patch.gz/.patch.xz? It may need to be uncompressed first. filterdiff has -z for that, although it might uncompress automatically for all I know. Vim will also uncompress the file for viewing (not saving, though)
08:12 < GueSuper> i can't filterdiff in my centos minimal install and macos, still trying to figure it out
08:12 < GueSuper> *find
08:13 < hexnewbie> GueSuper: In Debian the package is named patchutils
08:14 < GueSuper> hexnewbie: got it, same for centos, installing :)
08:20 < nostrora> What is your feeling about a swap for home server with nextcloud with 16GB of memory, ZFS 4TB and Ubuntu 18.04 ?
08:23 < Psi-Jack> I think.... You don't have enough RAM for that ZFS.
08:24 < nostrora> Psi-Jack: Oh really ? How can I test that?
08:24 < Psi-Jack> Usage. heh
08:26 < hexnewbie> I run that big a ZFS with less RAM. ZFS does use a lot of RAM (like 60% of RAM, particular for ARC), but it does not *require* gigantic quantities of it, unless you use dedup which does.
08:27 < hexnewbie> Or at least, unless you use dedup, the size of the dataset is not directly tied to the size of RAM.
08:27 < Psi-Jack> And why would you run ZFS without deduplication, besides hipster/ricer reasoning?
08:28 < hexnewbie> Snapshots? Send/receive?
08:28 < Psi-Jack> You can get snapshots with LVM.
08:28 < nostrora> dedup completely kills performance (and increases x10 the amount of RAM needed)
08:29 < hexnewbie> With the horrible LVM performance, you may get *a* snapshot, not sure for the plural, let alone 30 days worth of them.
08:29 < Psi-Jack> Oh you definitely get as many as you want.
08:30 < Psi-Jack> And with LVM Thin provisioning, you can snapshot all day long :)
08:30 < hexnewbie> Yeah, that wasn't yet available in distros when I formatted this ZFS pool.
08:30 < hexnewbie> That's true. Still, block level snapshots still take a lot more space than filesystem-level ones
08:31 < Psi-Jack> That's why there's things like borgbackup.
08:31 < Psi-Jack> Far superior, and includes deduplication.
08:32 < hexnewbie> Psi-Jack: Are the borgbackups contents readable as plain files over the VFS (similar to ‘mounted read-only’), from both your local copy and offsite copy?
08:33 < Psi-Jack> borgbackup includes the ability to mount any backup snapshot's version(dated?) and copy whatever file(s) you want directly off it, or use it to rsync and restore an entire system.
08:34 < Psi-Jack> Thanks to the powers of fuse.
08:34 < Psi-Jack> So: Yes.
08:35 < hexnewbie> Ah, that's cool. Another thing I do use ZFS for. Although all the snapshots, and their remote copy, are always mounted for me; or at least automatically mounted as I navigate into them. Kind of useful when you restore your Plasma 5 config files from backup every damn morning.
08:36 < Psi-Jack> borgbackup also encludes encryption and compression, keeping your backups tiny. :)
08:37 < Psi-Jack> My backup of 3 months, started at 20GB, and is only 24GB today, and that includes many arch linux updates progressed throughout that time frame.
08:37 < Psi-Jack> So. ZFS has nothing. :)
08:41 < Psi-Jack> Even better. You can have borg installed locally and on a remote server, and it, much like git & rsync, will tunnel itself over ssh.
08:45 < Azrael_-> hi
08:45 < hexnewbie> TBH, for new installs, I switched to rsync backups (with manual hardlinking with --link-dest, not even rsnapshot) due to simple laziness, as installing ZFS seems like too much effort and non-standardness, and the simpler thing works.
08:46 < Azrael_-> i'm running debian+gnome and using a monitor which doesn't scale properly. so the edges of the screen aren't visible. is it possible to use the software to change the scaling so i can see everything?
08:46 < Psi-Jack> To install borg: pip install borgbackup
08:46 < Psi-Jack> Heh
08:47 < Psi-Jack> Some distros have it packaged natively of course.
08:47 < hexnewbie> Then I have to read the docs (and virtualenv docs first too :p)
08:47 < Psi-Jack> The docs include how to install it, too. :)
09:20 < guardian> Hello. Does someone have recent data on Linux's NTFS driver performance compared to Windows?
09:21 < guardian> should I expect 10%, 20%, more difference?
09:21 < Psi-Jack> TIAS
09:21 < hexnewbie> guardian: If you're worried about performance, use a native filesystem
09:21 < Psi-Jack> ^
09:22 < guardian> fair enough, I'm in a situation where I want to access data from both Linux and Windows, on a dual boot
09:22 < Psi-Jack> JUst remove Windows. Problem solved. :)
09:22 < stevendale> dee dee input file device zero output file device solid/spinning disk A. block size equals 1 megabyte
09:23 < Styil> Yo, anyone know how to install Ubuntu via text based installer?
09:23 < stevendale> Styil, Alternate iso
09:23 < stevendale> Are you trying to install mainstream ubuntu or a deriative
09:24 < Styil> Mainstream
09:25 < Styil> Problem is that the GUI installer seems to have improper graphics drivers for my card
09:25 < Styil> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
09:25 < stevendale> Styil, https://www.ubuntu.com/download/alternative-downloads
09:26 < stevendale> Network installer is the one you want, you'll need internet during install though
09:26 < Styil> Not a problem
09:26 < stevendale> They stopped producing the 'alternate' images for regular Ubuntu :(
09:26 < stevendale> Also stoped 32-bit images in 18.04 LTS
09:28 < Psi-Jack> Finally. Reducing their surface is good. :)
09:29 < Styil> Anyone know how to get out of a boot loop?
09:30 < Styil> I know what is wrong, but need to at least enter the file system to fix it
09:30 < nostrora> Styil: boot to live cd and chroot to root than you can fix
09:30 < nostrora> then*
09:46 < Dagmar> ...or just mount the filesystem and fix it without bothering to chroot if you know what you need to change.
09:46 < Dagmar> I actually wear an 8Gb thumbdrive around my neck for junk like that
09:46 < Dagmar> ...also because 4gb of it is an encrypted filesystem image
10:02 < littlepy>  does the boot partition can be a logical volume?
10:03 < Sitri> Your bootloader has to support it
10:03 < ledtc> Hey guys, i have this ubuntu server (VPS) and its restarting itself like once a day. I cant find out why, every time it goes down i have to start my microservice up manualy, its a pain when im at work.
10:04 < ledtc> Micro service is a small flask project.
10:04 < bookworm> ledtc: o.O a vps shouldn't do that
10:04 < ledtc> bookworm, agreed.
10:04 < bookworm> in any case, write a systemd unit and enable it to start the service at boot
10:05 < bookworm> but really, yell at your provider
10:06 < ledtc> bookworm, yeah i tried doing that whit crontable and tmux combined, it looked like it worked, but then i stopped working midday
10:06 < bookworm> crontable and tmux is an ugly hack
10:07 < bookworm> use your init...
10:07 < ledtc> bookworm, it was the least amount of confusing documentation, i'm sorry i'm only human.
10:07 < ledtc> bookworm, Good a good documentation for init ?
10:08 < bookworm> So am I, at least last time I checked ;)
10:08 < bookworm> man systemd
10:08 < ledtc> bookworm, i would agree, this is not 4chan.
10:08 < bookworm> or this https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd
10:09 < littlepy> how can we remove inactive logical volume (without reboot) , if backend disk/storage gets removed before deleting lv/vg in a VM
10:09 < ledtc> bookworm, cant use man, cause ive been having this locale settings f*cking with me, i fix it, it breaks some where else. man: can't set the locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are correct
10:09 < bookworm> what did you set it too?
10:10 < ledtc> bookworm, there unset, every time i reboot their unset
10:11 < ledtc> bookworm, i did find a really go tutorial on this somewhere, but ive lost and google wont retrieve it for me.
10:11 < bookworm> what do you want to have? English?
10:12 < ledtc> bookworm, i did find a really good tutorial on this somewhere, but i've lost and Google wont retrieve it for me. *
10:12 < ledtc> bookworm, LANG=se_SV.UTF-8 but system like interface i want in English ?
10:15 < bookworm> As far as I know, LANG is the system interface
10:15 < bookworm> in any case, I need to run sorry... but I'm sure someone can help you with both issues if you are a bit patient
10:16 < ledtc> bookworm, Sure, thanks man.
10:17 < bookworm> As a pointer, you read the man pages of localectl online
10:17 < bookworm> s/you//
10:17 < bookworm> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Locale That should bring you up to speed
10:18 < bookworm> (yes I know... all those things you have too read...) You'll get used to it ;)
10:33 < eqw> how to connect to open wifi using cli? wpa_supplicant seems unnecessary, isn't it?
10:34 < stevendale> What distro eqw
10:35 < eqw> ubuntu
10:35 < stevendale> eqw, networkmanager-cli would be your best bet
10:36 < eqw> i don't have networkmanager
10:37 < cousin_luigi> Greetings.
10:37 < pingfloyd> you can do it through wpa_supplicant directly, but it's a pita
10:37 < eqw> i just connect manually typing wpa_suuplicant command but now i want to use open network
10:37 < pingfloyd>  I second nm-cli
10:37 < cousin_luigi> Know of any command-line pastebin client that's not pastebinit?
10:37 < pingfloyd> it uses wpa_supplicant
10:38 < pingfloyd> cousin_luigi: nc
10:38 < stevendale> cousin_luigi, git
10:38 < stevendale> pingfloyd, There's probably a pastebin client for emacs
10:38 < stevendale> xD
10:38 < pingfloyd> e.g., termbin.com
10:38 < cousin_luigi> stevendale: git?
10:38 < pingfloyd> command | nc termbin.com 9999
10:38 < cousin_luigi> I'm aware of the option.
10:38 < cousin_luigi> But I was looking for a multi-service client.
10:39 < cousin_luigi> Like pastebinit.
10:39 < cousin_luigi> Looks like I'm SOL.
10:39 < stevendale> cousin_luigi, I was joking, but git is actually usable for storing information :P
10:39 < pingfloyd> you could always make a shell script to do that
10:39 < cousin_luigi> pingfloyd: I'd have to maintain it.
10:40 < pingfloyd> e.g., have your script curl/wget away
10:40 < cousin_luigi> pingfloyd: Until things change, server-side.
10:41 < pingfloyd> they don't change that often
10:41 < pingfloyd> especially if you use curl
10:41 < pingfloyd> to drive it
10:43 < cousin_luigi> ok, that's probably what I'll have to do
10:43 < cousin_luigi> bbl!
10:43 < pingfloyd> if you're doing something like trying to parse the site's html, then you want to use something like dom.  That way the changes have to be pretty major on their side to affect the parsing.
10:49 < ledtc> Q: I got one Gallium OS laptop and an Ubuntu server, when i run locale i get the same output and the /etc/default/locale files are the same, thou when i type man on the server i get errors
10:50 < ledtc> Q: locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
10:50 < stevendale> Kill the penguins
10:50 < ledtc> Q: What file is it looking for ?
10:51 < stevendale> Kill the penguins, throw rocks at the windows and eat the apples
10:55 < SuperSeriousCat> I would not recommend that. The apple is already half eaten and probably rotten
10:57 < pingfloyd> you're a penguin
10:59 < nai> throw an apple through the window right in the penguin's mouth
11:01 < z3r0sTr3sS> someone can help me?
11:03  * AOL_ thinks existentially
11:03 < z3r0sTr3sS> 26 april is was released the last xubuntu LTS
11:04 < z3r0sTr3sS> i make apt-get dist-upgrade but i don't upgrade
11:04 < eqw>  wait for a couple of months
11:04 < z3r0sTr3sS> sorry apt dis-upgrade
11:04 < z3r0sTr3sS> ok
11:53 < hanshenrik> why is this command executing ls? echo $(timeout 1s curl -v api.paypal.com  2>&1 )
11:53 < hanshenrik> and why is it not executing ls when removing 2>&1   ?
12:01 < hanshenrik> oh nvm, it seems like a cygwin bug, cygwin execute ls  when doing that, debian doesn't
12:01 < MrElendig> why would that ever call ls?
12:02 < hanshenrik> i have no friggin idea
12:02 < MrElendig> `type timeout`
12:02 < MrElendig> or did you mistype 1s as ls?
12:02 < hanshenrik> timeout is hashed (/usr/bin/timeout)
12:02 < MrElendig> that would possibly explain it
12:02 < hanshenrik> no i didn't.... let me double-check
12:03 < hanshenrik> no, i didn't
12:03 < hanshenrik> ah wait, debian is doing it too...
12:03 < nai> .. it calls ls on my machine too o_O
12:03 < nai> my best guess is this:
12:03 < nai> it doesn't call ls, it calls "echo *"
12:03 < nai> because somehow curl generates a * as output and your command substitution isn't quoted
12:03 < nai> yep, that's it.
12:03 < nai> remember to always quote every single substitution and you won't have any problems
12:04 < nai> also, why would you use echo "$()" ? the whole construct is pointless
12:05 < hanshenrik> i tried echo $()    because     timeout 2s curl -v api.paypal.com | pastebinit    doesn't work, pastebinit's stdin is empty
12:05 < nai> use |&
12:06 < hanshenrik> well, timeout 2s curl -v api.paypal.com |& pastebinit   doesn't work either
12:09 < nai> what shell are you using?
12:10 < hanshenrik> cygwin's bash, ssh's bash
12:10 < hanshenrik> erm
12:10 < hanshenrik> `echo $SHELL` says /bin/bash
12:10 < nai> then it's likely a problem with your pastebinit command
12:10 < birk0ff>  /join #python
12:13 < acetakwas> Why do I get "Directory not empty" when my script tries to "rm -rf" a directory?
12:14 < acetakwas> Isn't the `-f` option supposed to force the delete operation?
12:15 < MrElendig> no permission to delete some file in there?
12:15 < acetakwas> I get this error: rm: cannot remove '/var/lib/rabbitmq/mnesia/rabbit@ip-X-X-X-X': Directory not empty
12:18 < oinqort> hello
12:18 < acetakwas> Here's my script: https://paste.ofcode.org/34BWfCxx8dFPHzSnDjurYqv
12:19 < MrElendig> might be an error before that
12:19 < MrElendig> or you got a race condition
12:20 < MrElendig> don't use && on every line, use printf instead of echo
12:20 < MrElendig> instead of just blindly sleeping 10 sec, check if it is actually stupped
12:20 < MrElendig> stopped*
12:21 < acetakwas> MrElendig::  Thanks for the tips. The sleep is intentional.
12:21 < MrElendig> the sleep is not a reliable way to do what you want to do
12:21 < acetakwas> It's supposed to give room for some unconsumed in-memory queues (background tasks) to be completed before stopping the service.
12:22 < catphish> acetakwas: maybe something put a file in the directory during the operation
12:22 < nai> all those && :D
12:22 < acetakwas> What I do is first stop the web app from accepting more requests, and leave room for unfinished tasks to be completed in the 10 secs window.
12:22 < MrElendig> https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide
12:23 < catphish> acetakwas: you appear to delete rabbit data while rabbit is still running
12:23 < catphish> echo "^^^Clearing RabbitMQ data..." then echo "^^^Stopping RabbitMQ..."
12:23 < catphish> maybe stop it before you try to rm its data?
12:23 < acetakwas> catphish::  So I should stop RabbitMQ first?
12:23 < catphish> i'd say do
12:23 < catphish> *so
12:23 < acetakwas> catphish::  Makes sense.
12:23 < MrElendig> asuming stop all doesn't do what it says on the tin
12:24 < catphish> also, can't you delete the data using its own toolset?
12:24 < acetakwas> The reason for all the &&s is to make sure the next thing doesn't happen unless the last was successful.
12:24 < MrElendig> acetakwas: 100% useless on the echos
12:24 < MrElendig> almost useless on the supervisor calls
12:24 < catphish> acetakwas: also, i recommend you look into "set -e", means you don't need to string all your commands together into one mega-command
12:24 < acetakwas> That way my cron checker service on line 33 would alert me.
12:25 < BluesKaj> Howdy folks
12:25 < catphish> acetakwas: "set -e" will cause the script to terminate if any one command fails
12:25 < acetakwas> catphish::  Aah nice.
12:26 < acetakwas> catphish::  Yes, rabbitmq has a reset command. I'll switch to that.
12:26 < catphish> you can stop needing to remember to && everything :)
12:26 < catphish> acetakwas: great
12:27 < nai> also don't use set -e
12:27 < nai> handle your errors manually
12:27 < acetakwas> catphish, MrElendig: Thanks
12:27 < stevendale> OwO
12:27 < acetakwas> nai::  Why?
12:27 < MrElendig> acetakwas: see my link
12:28 < stevendale> Let's all install FreeDOS
12:28 < catphish> depends what result you want i guess, set -e is great if you just want to print the first error that occurs and bomb out
12:28 < MrElendig> and the rest of his wiki
12:28 < catphish> if you want to actually recover from errors, that's another matter, but i'd still use set -e to exit if there's an unhandled error
12:28 < stevendale> DOS is useful for BIOS updates
12:28 < acetakwas> catphish::  I don't want to recover.
12:28 < nai> /msg greybot !set-e
12:28 < MrElendig> stevendale: unless you have sane hardware
12:28 < acetakwas> I'll be alerted if anything fails.
12:29 < catphish> acetakwas: i assumed you didn't
12:29 < acetakwas> And I'd fix it manually.
12:29 < MrElendig> stevendale: where you can update using fwupdate or by just putting the firmware blob on the esp
12:29 < catphish> i stick by my advice :) set -e is a lot easier then handling failures individually in every command, and a huge improvement on putting && after every line anyway
12:30 < stevendale> BIOS is so much better though MrElendig
12:30 < MrElendig> no
12:30 < catphish> i hope BIOS dies soon
12:30 < MrElendig> catphish: it will
12:30 < MrElendig> catphish: 2019/2020 will see uefi only (no csm) hardware
12:30 < catphish> along with 16 bit and 32 bit x86 maybe :)
12:31 < stevendale> And BIOS hardware will be purchasable for the rest of time
12:31 < catphish> i'd rather my cpu just booted in 64 bit protected mode ready to go
12:31 < MrElendig> a lot of hardware sold now techically is uefi only, but has emulation
12:31 < stevendale> And 32-bit OSes will be downloadable for the rest of time
12:31 < catphish> emulation seems the better way to go
12:31 < MrElendig> MS will drop 32bit in a few years
12:32 < stevendale> Windows will also be dead in a few years
12:32 < stevendale> So biggie
12:32 < stevendale> *no
12:32 < catphish> does windows 10 still support 32 bit
12:32 < stevendale> Yep
12:32 < catphish> oh yeah, it does
12:32 < catphish> that's some dedication to backward compatibility
12:32 < stevendale> And Windows 10 is the last Windows
12:32 < stevendale> I suspect... MS will make a Linux distro
12:32 < oiaohm> catphish: 16 bit is gone from windows and wine still has win16 working
12:33 < stevendale> And charge for it
12:33 < oiaohm> stevendale: already kind of too late for that.
12:33 < MrElendig> highly unlikely
12:34 < MrElendig> catphish: but they dropped support for some 32bit only cpus
12:34 < stevendale> Is it a good idea to shoot at Concord in EVE Online
12:34 < oiaohm> stevendale: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/azure-sphere/details/
12:34 < MrElendig> stevendale: yes
12:34 < stevendale> MrElendig, Haha
12:34 < oiaohm> stevendale: Microsoft is trying custom Linux with custom hardware.
12:34 < catphish> ok, we get it, you like trolling
12:35 < stevendale> I'm not too keen on losing my T2 ship
12:35 < oiaohm> stevendale: so Microsoft releasing a Linux distribution they have already been there done that.
12:35 < nai> catphish: see http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/105
12:36 < oiaohm> stevendale: the question now is if Microsoft can do a sucessful Linux distribution
12:37 < catphish> nai: makes a lot of sense, but one can't escape the fact that it often works, and it's often easier to do manual error handling on the one command in the script that doesn't return 0 on success
12:37 < stevendale> Or will it end up like Mandrivia oiaohm :D
12:38 < catphish> nai: i see there's a lot of other cases that need handling too though :(
12:39 < MrElendig> often easier to not use bash :p
12:39 < oiaohm> stevendale: the Linux distribution grave yard if you had to put down a 10x10 cm stone for every dead distribution I don't want to think about the land area you would need.
12:39 < nai> there are a lot. set -e is wrong by nature
12:39 < oiaohm> stevendale: I remember when coral did their own Linux.
12:40 < catphish> there are way to many different linux distros, i should just make one good distro that encompasses everyone's needs
12:41 < stevendale> oiaohm, DSL, EasyPeasy, CrunchBang, SliTaz (<-- on its way out), Ubuntu Netbook Edition, Mint LXDE, Mint KDE, Ubuntu 32-bit, Debian 32-bit PPC, Arch 32-bit
12:41 < stevendale> The list goes on
12:41 < BCMM> catphish: https://xkcd.com/927/
12:41 < catphish> BCMM: :)
12:41 < hendrix> catphish: if it could be done, there would be one
12:42 < stevendale> Crunchbang, Arch 32-bit both live on as community maintained projects though IIRC
12:42 < oiaohm> catphish: really the solution to distribution is if flatpak gets really successful so is starts being less important what distribution you are using to get job done.
12:42 < MaximB> Hello, I've installed the latest ubuntu, and gnome shell takes about 100% cpu (got 4 cores i5), is it normal?
12:42 < MrElendig> stevendale: arch doesn't support i686 anymore
12:42 < stevendale> MrElendig, Arch Linux 32
12:42 < stevendale> It's a community fork
12:43 < stevendale> Community maintained repos
12:43 < MrElendig> I know about that one (will die soon)
12:43 < nai> catphish: did you mean Gentoo?
12:43 < oiaohm> catphish: think about it every time people normally start a new distribution they fragment market share.
12:44 < hexnewbie> I've upgraded all that 64 bit crap to 32 bit :)
12:44 < stevendale> OwO
12:44 < stevendale> How is 32-bit an upgrade
12:44 < hexnewbie> stevendale: Double the memory!
12:45 < stevendale> Uhm
12:45 < stevendale> Is hexnewbie crazy
12:45 < oiaohm> stevendale: stupidly on x86 you get a smaller memory foot print using 32bit.
12:45 < oiaohm> stevendale: why x32 exists but you don't have many packages.
12:45 < stevendale> oiaohm, That's stupid
12:45 < revel> "stupidly"?
12:46 < hexnewbie> All high level languages are using too many pointers, Python is particularly bad, so is PHP. I was shocked the difference in memory usage was actually double.
12:46 < BluesKaj> these days there's more than enough memory to accomodate 64 bit even on cheapest pcs
12:46 < oiaohm> stevendale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X32_ABI  the improved memory foot print in fact  makes programs run faster.
12:47 < oiaohm> hexnewbie: really ideal would be if you could go to x32_abi with more registers.
12:47 < revel> hexnewbie: Can't you run 32-bit python then?
12:48 < hexnewbie> revel: Well, yeah. That's kind of what I do. 64 bit kernel, the database goes in 64 bit user land, the dynamic language stuff goes into 32 bit userland :)
12:48 < hendrix> then next upgrade: 16-bit
12:49 < hexnewbie> But since those are different machines, simply upgraded the whole OS to a 32 bit one ;p
12:49 < MrElendig> 7 bit, because 8 bit is bloat
12:49 < revel> You'd definitely run into memory issues if you did that.
12:49 < MrElendig> (yes there is 7bit hardware)
12:49 < revel> And 28-bit, I think.
12:50 < revel> Hmm, not really, just some gimped 32-bit computer.
12:50 < hexnewbie> It's pretty much an upgrade. Installing 64 bit in production immediately triggered daily OOMs, so had to revert to 32 bit in an emergency.
12:50 < oiaohm> hendrix: 16 bit you run into memory hell very quickly.   x32 api or pure 32 turns out to be quite functional at 4G of memory.   There are quite a few individual programs that don't use more than that.
12:51 < hexnewbie> x32 was released a year after that, sadly still no viable distro last time I checked :/
12:51 < revel> Gentoo?
12:51 < hexnewbie> s/viable distro/viable stable distro/
12:52 < revel> pls, Gentoo's plenty stable.
12:52 < oiaohm> revel: there is a difference with x32 vs standard 32 bit that does cause some problems.   x32 has 64 bit time.
12:52 < revel> https://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/amd64/autobuilds/current-stage3-x32/
12:52 < oiaohm> revel: so programs for x32 from 32 have to be updated to handle 64 bit time.
12:53 < irwiss> is there a serious use of x32 apis anywhere at all?
12:54 < stevendale> Yeah
12:54 < stevendale> Steam
12:54 < stevendale> Games
12:54 < revel> Not 32-bit, x32.
12:54 < stevendale> Wine
12:54 < hexnewbie> Wine would definitely *not* support x32
12:54 < revel> Those are x86, not x32.
12:54 < stevendale> Wine runs on both owo
12:55 < irwiss> X32, i'm not asking about 32 bit libs
12:55 < oiaohm> stevendale: wine does not support x32
12:55 < irwiss> but the kernel x32 apis
12:55 < revel> ABI.
12:55 < stevendale> I can compile Wine for 32-bit Linux...
12:55 < irwiss> right abi*
12:55 < revel> stevendale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X32_ABI
12:55 < oiaohm> stevendale: I do support for wine.  Wine support pure 32 bit binaries and pure 64 bit.    x32 is this kind of half way thing between 64 bit and 32 bit.
12:55 < hexnewbie> stevendale: x32 is not 32 bit Linux, it's a different ABI
12:56 < oiaohm> stevendale: 32 bit windows binaries would be totally confused dropped in x32.
12:56 < hexnewbie> Better on paper for programs with smaller memory footprints that need less memory space, unusable in practice due to little support for it
12:56 < stevendale> What's the quickest way to software brick a linux PC
12:57 < revel> Remove /boot?
12:57 < stevendale> dee dee if equals device zero of equals device sda?
12:57 < irwiss> dd with of=/dev/yourblockdevice
12:57 < revel> That'd take a long time though.
12:57 < oiaohm> stevendale: now badly.   zero the writeable flashes on some systems does quite a number.
12:57 < hexnewbie> stevendale: Put a macaque in front of the LILO prompt?
12:57 < revel> Though just get rid of the MBR would work too.
12:57 < irwiss> it won't if the filesystem and partition table is in the beginning
12:57 < revel> s/get/getting/
12:58 < revel> irwiss: The dd would take a while to finish, anyway.
12:58 < stevendale> revel, how does s/text/text/ work
12:58 < stevendale> I never understood
12:58 < irwiss> you can ctrl-c at any time, but you can never leeeeeave 🎶
12:58 < azarus> stevendale: regular expressions
12:58 < revel> ^
12:58 < azarus> learn 'em, love em
12:58 < nai> stevendale: sed syntax
12:59 < stevendale>  I thought everybody used emacs
12:59 < azarus> *wrong*
12:59 < jim> stevendale, that's a pretty big subject... you can learn that in pieces
13:00 < jim> people have their own editor preferences... some like nano, others like vi or vim, still others like emacs, and there are a lot more
13:00 < oiaohm> stevendale: https://www.flashrom.org/Flashrom  do note the warning on this tool.
13:01 < nai> stevendale: as opposed to sed? sed if not a text editor
13:01 < oiaohm> stevendale: it can be bricked to the point of will not boot in a few seconds and its bad enough no boot disc is going to help you.
13:01 < jim> there's another one called ed
13:01 < nai> vi(m) does use sed's syntax for substitutions though
13:01 < nai> jim: let's not talk about that
13:01 < oiaohm> stevendale: linux has some quite powerful tools that can do a lot of damage quickly.
13:02 < SkunkyFone> rm can do a lot of damage.  just try it on /lib sometime.
13:02 < jim> I'd say it'll take you about a week or so to learn sed and grep
13:02 < revel> oiaohm: By "software brick", I assumed he meant "not flashing ROMs"
13:02 < oiaohm> revel: but firmware in the bios is still software.
13:02 < stevendale> Extended renderer info (GLX_MESA_query_renderer):
13:02 < stevendale> OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset
13:03 < stevendale> exec -o glxinfo -B | grep renderer
13:03 < stevendale> I has basic grep knowledge
13:03 < azarus> wow, that's old, but cool!
13:03 < stevendale> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Debian 9.4 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     P8700  @ 2.53GHz (800MHz) • Memory: Physical: 3.7 GiB Total (3.4 GiB Free) Swap: 3.9 GiB Total (3.9 GiB Free) • Storage: 22.0 GB / 309.3 GB (287.3 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Memory Controller Hub • Uptime: 4h 20m 26s
13:04 < jim> stevendale, you got debian working on your machine?
13:04 < stevendale> Yeah jim
13:04 < oiaohm> stevendale: general rule don't tell people all those details.   Just in case there is someone nasty.
13:04 < azarus> eh?
13:04 < azarus> system stats don't make you vulnerable
13:05 < nai> only to bullying
13:05 < stevendale> I mean, if you do SysInfo in MIRC on Windows 95
13:05 < stevendale> Somebody could say
13:05 < stevendale> AUX/AUX
13:05 < stevendale> Instant BSOD
13:05 < jim> stevendale, when you did that marks the start of an incredible learning path
13:06 < stevendale> jim, o/ I have Openbox & lxpanel with nm-applet and HexChat o/
13:07 < stevendale> I used obmenu, and removed the LXDE menu and app shortcuts from lxpanel
13:08 < oiaohm> azarus: the client version number can at times tell direct flaws in client particularly when combined with the OS version under it;.    After that fairly much does not help attacker.
13:08 < azarus> oiaohm: you could always do /ctcp faff
13:08  * azarus shrugs
13:09 < jim> stevendale, maybe you want to learn how to customize the moving parts of your gui (and that's not -at all- the deepest learning possible
13:09 < jim> )
13:09 < jim> but, I dunno, maybe that's what you want to do
13:14 < dgurney> oh, sysinfo makes you vulnerable to bullying? TIL
13:18 < nai> dgurney: you must be new
13:20 < dgurney> well, I do occasionally forget that this is a Linux community
13:21 < jim> what
13:21 < jim> is TIL?
13:21 < dgurney> today I learned...
13:21 < azarus> i see someone is new on the internet
13:21 < jim> oh ok :)
13:21 < dgurney> how have you managed to not hear of that one lol
13:22 < jim> I've seen it, hadn't had occasion to know its definition till now
13:22 < dgurney> oh
13:22 < nai> meta-TIL
13:22 < azarus> TIL TIL
13:23 < nai> we need to go deeper
13:29 < pingfloyd> you failed at being hip. oh darn.
13:30 < nai> who said i was trying
13:32 < stevendale> nai, Cover me with diamonds
13:50 < pskosinski> How can I make a bash script eating my precious RAM? To watch it in system monitor and check if it gets killed properly if it gets too big
13:52 < hexnewbie> OOM killer never looks proper
13:52 < bomb> it's like few lines of code in Java
13:55 < mawk> count all triplets of digits that we can append to 579 such that the result is divisible by 5 and by 9
13:56 < hexnewbie> if (struckBy(p, NEUTRON)) { decay(p); unleash(p.pos, NEUTRON); } // Fills all available memory very fast
13:57 < maret> hi I am trying to create simple bash function which takes an argument (text) and insert it into the file. My question is how to pass function parameter to sed ? Right now I am using    sed -i '1s/^/\$1 \n/' ~/file.md, but this prints $1 litterally
13:58 < mawk> why do you use \$1 instead of $1 ?
13:58 < mawk> I don't know anything about awk but that's what I would guess
13:58 < hexnewbie> maret: Short story: It will be very hard to make this work properly
13:59 < maret> mawk, I've had $1 before same result so I tried \ to escape..
14:00 < spare> variables dont expand in ' ' they only expand in " "
14:01 < hexnewbie> And expanding variables may be bad news in sed scripts.
14:01 < spare> yeh you would need to input check every variable
14:01 < maret> ok so what would be workaround only reason I am using sed is to add something to the beggining of the file
14:01 < nai> maret: use cat
14:02 < nai> cat - "$file" <<< "$1" | sponge "$file"
14:02 < pingfloyd> spare: there is an exception (when used inside of double-quotes)
14:02 < nai> if you don't have sponge, use a temporary file
14:04 < nai> pingfloyd: ?
14:07 < hexnewbie> LOL, sponge comes in the same package as pee. And pee is a command I actually needed (emulated it with tee and bash, anyways, but the name is apt)
14:07 < mawk> that's not a very happy command name
14:07 < mawk> the worst I've seen is this: http://caca.zoy.org/wiki/libcaca
14:08 < pingfloyd> the author of that lib has a poop fetish
14:09 < pingfloyd> not so coincidentally the author of libpipi as well.
14:10 < nai> pingfloyd: what exception were you refering to
14:10 < hexnewbie> Also violated the golden rule: Never place a bomb next to the poo.
14:11 < bomb> :>
14:11 < pingfloyd> nai: about variable expansion
14:12 < nai> pingfloyd: i'm listening
14:12 < pingfloyd> nai: e.g., echo "this '$var' expands"
14:12 < toogley> i have unfortunately deleted my gpt of my external harddrive via dd'ing the first few bytes of the drive. i have some files on that drive i want to recover. is it save to just create another partition table?
14:12 < nai> ah, nested quotes
14:13 < pingfloyd> the other way would be "this \"$var\" expands"
14:13 < nai> that's hardly an exception; the variable is really in double quotes
14:13 < nai> it just happens to be next to single quote characters
14:14 < toogley> nai: pingfloyd '$var' doesn't expand
14:14 < irwiss> heh, zoy.org is blocked by adguard russian filter
14:14 < hexnewbie> toogley: Creating the same GPT partition table over the drive shouldn't write over the data, but there could still be complications (different part UUIDs, data in places where it shouldn't be or you writing over more than just the partition table, or accidentally getting the partitions wrong). Other than that, yes, you can
14:14 < toogley> hexnewbie: ah, thanks
14:14 < nai> toogley: yes we know this.
14:14 < maret> nai cat works thanks
14:14 < pingfloyd> toogley: keep up
14:15 < maret> one more question would it possible to  address all passed arguments at once. What I want to do is  write myFunction Some text with white space without quotes and write it into the file
14:16 < mawk> "$*"
14:16 < mawk> if ${IFS[0]} is ' '
14:16 < mawk> which is the case most of the time
14:16 < pingfloyd> nai: more of a footnote really
14:16 < nai> yes, if you will
14:16 < maret> awesome thanks
14:17 < nai> or "$@"
14:18 < nai> if you don't want to worry about IFS
14:18 < Darkclaw> I am trying to uncompress a .tar.gz file on a Windows machine and I haven't had access. I use gnutar to do it. any suggestions?
14:18 < mawk> he's asking for a single chunk I think
14:18 < mawk> "$@" will make "$1" "$2" etc and not "$1 $2 ..."
14:18 < nai> mawk: still works with <<<
14:18 < mawk> yeah
14:19 < nai> makes cat receive all arguments separated by spaces
14:50 < hk238> hmm to install a different linux distro, or not to install a different linux distro, that is the question.. :D
14:53 < debkad> Try to see
14:53 < nai> install gentoo
14:55 < nai> whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous binaries, or to take arms against a sea of troubles and, by compiling, end it.
14:55 < debkad> hmm
14:56 < hk238> :D
15:13 < noodlepie> Hiya guys!
15:21 < mawk> I'm bored
15:21 < snake2k> noodlepie: hai
15:21 < snake2k> mawk: me too
15:21 < undefbeh> good news
15:21 < undefbeh> fuchisa will replace android soon
15:22 < undefbeh> no more linux garbage kernel required for android. cant wait for official fuchsia
15:22 < undefbeh> best decision ever by google
15:23 < fendur> yay!
15:23 < mawk> get out of here undefbeh
15:23 < undefbeh> on a side note. gnome is really beast on ubuntu 18
15:23 < mawk> make your basic discriminatory anti-linux racism elsewhere
15:24 < iflema> isnt that shit out of tree
15:24 < triceratux> xubuntu 18.04 is the only hope
15:24 < oleo> it's not about linux anyway.....
15:24 < Armand> undefbeh: Where are you seeing this rumour ?
15:24 < oleo> it's about suns java......and the dalvic etc....
15:24 < undefbeh> news. AOSP has code for fuchsia
15:25 < undefbeh> Armand: soon linux will be out of android world
15:25 < undefbeh> cant wait
15:25 < oleo> well, if they want to they can yes....
15:25 < undefbeh> they still need ART (Android run time) thou
15:25 < undefbeh> for native android support
15:25 < Armand> Humm.. .1.6GB. Should be quick
15:25 < undefbeh> cant wait to get rid of linux from my android device
15:25 < undefbeh> <3
15:26 < undefbeh> hope google updates it otherwise gotta get new pixel xl 3
15:26 < undefbeh> :d
15:26 < debkad> undefbeh: what is fushi. ..
15:26 < fendur> undefbeh: so, just want to be clear, you _don't_ like linux based android?
15:26 < iflema> hear here
15:26 < oleo> fuchsia is a new OS
15:26 < undefbeh> fendur: its broken
15:26 < oleo> replacing android
15:26 < undefbeh> cant wait !!
15:26 < oleo> they got issues with oracle....
15:26 < noodlepie> Hi snake2k, everyone!
15:26 < debkad> oleo: how it look like? linux or winblowz?
15:26 < fendur> undefbeh: could you just say it one more time so we can all be super sure what your preferences are?
15:26 < noodlepie> I hope all is well today and your free software isn't making you pull your hair out! @:P-~
15:26 < Armand> undefbeh: I feel your assessment is very much incorrect.
15:26 < Armand> But, ehh.
15:26 < undefbeh> oleo: well even before getting issues with oracle they were planning to get rid of linux kernel
15:27 < triceratux> https://www.androidheadlines.com/2018/04/fuchsia-mysteriously-shows-up-in-aosps-art-segment.html
15:27 < oleo> that might be
15:27 < undefbeh> but now oracle case has fasten the process
15:27 < undefbeh> :D
15:27 < undefbeh> God Bless Oracle
15:27 < Armand> No
15:27 < oleo> then don't use java.......
15:27 < dgurney> this is average-quality bait at best
15:27 < undefbeh> linux will be limited to servers only hahah
15:27 < undefbeh> cant wait to see it dying
15:27 < Armand> Wrong
15:29  * noodlepie likes PostgrSQL and Zope.org
15:29 < debkad> undefbeh: you enter here just to say this things?
15:29 < fendur> debkad: did you start using irc today?
15:29 < debkad> fendur: no
15:30 < Armand> debkad: Fair assumption.. Obvious troll is obvious
15:30 < debkad> yeah that what i though
15:31 < debkad> fendur: What is the point to enter in a channel that speak for linux and have one that is trolling about
15:31 < Armand> Because basic trolls do troll things.
15:32 < fendur> debkad: I suppose he/she is so bored with life that picking on others makes him/her feel better about life?
15:32 < debkad> It can be
15:33 < Armand> fendur: Sounds like a good reason for s/he to end his/her life.
15:33 < fendur> debkad: my point was, and sorry for being short, that this is par for the course for sure.
15:33 < fendur> Armand: well that's just too far.
15:34 < mawk> I'm reading from a nonblocking tun device and it says EAGAIN to my face
15:35 < Armand> fendur: Meh... Don't ever assume that I'm a nice person. ;)
15:35 < fendur> Armand: roger.
15:35 < Armand> :)
15:35 < Armand> Who's Roger ?
15:35 < Armand> lol
15:37 < mawk> I'm reading the size said in the IPv4 header
15:37 < mawk> I don't see why the tun device shouldn't have the full frame in its buffer
15:37 < mawk> what a mess
15:38 < mawk> it looks like there's a special way of reading frames from a tun device
15:38 < mawk> I need to read it all at once
15:38 < mawk> or something like that, can someone confirm ?
15:38 < mawk> akin to pipes in packet mode
15:46 < fishguts> Hi all. I'm trying to put together a slideshow from images. I'm using melt from the MLT Multimedia Framework to create a video
15:46 < fishguts> from the images, with crossfading transitions. I need to therefore put the photos in the correct alphabetical order. With what tool can I visually arrange these photos, then renaming them with that tool so that they resemble this arbitrary visual order when sorted alphabetically by filename? Thanks.
15:48 < blaztek> mawk: http://backreference.org/2010/03/26/tuntap-interface-tutorial/
15:48 < debkad> fishguts: may be ffmpeg will do that
15:49 < debkad> oops didn't read your first words
15:51 < mawk> it doesn't say about my question blaztek
15:51 < mawk> but judging from the code it's that
15:52 < mawk> you specify a big ass buffer which only gets filled by 1 frame from the buffer
15:52 < mawk> that's very nice
15:52 < mawk> thanks
15:52  * Armand checks mawk's big ass-buffer
15:52 < debkad> :D
15:52 < mawk> :(
15:53 < Armand> lol
15:53 < undefbeh> Now that canonical is behind gnome, I hope it will improve finally
15:54 < undefbeh> since canonical is the only one that actually cares about its users. and redhat after that.
15:54 < undefbeh> *coughs* debian *coughs*
15:54 < Armand> Fake news
15:54 < mawk> ^
15:55 < noodlepie> I like Linux a lot, mostly I'm using it transparently as any POSIX compatible system would od, but Linux is fast and secure so all the more reason to love it.
15:55 < Armand> <3
15:55 < BCMM> undefbeh: canonical improving a project that they don't fully own the copyright to? i'll believe that when i see it...
15:55 < mawk> you're wrong noodlepie
15:55 < mawk> non-portable programs are the funniest to code
15:55 < mawk> you've got tons of nice linux-only features to play with
15:56 < undefbeh> noodlepie: linux is secure? hahahaha hahaahah tell that to security community
15:56 < undefbeh> lmao
15:56 < mawk> get out of here undefbeh
15:56 < Armand> undefbeh: You mean, the security community that uses Linux distros ?
15:56  * Armand slowclaps
15:57 < blaztek> MLT dev: can you use std::sort()
15:57 < undefbeh> Armand: not really. most of them are on macOS
15:57 < Armand> WRONG
15:57 < Armand> There are more Windows users in the security biz than Mac.
15:57 < Armand> trollolololol
15:58  * debkad wonder from where those info come from
15:58 < Armand> He just made them up
15:58 < Armand> I'll bet he supports Trump
15:58 < debkad> lol
15:58 < mawk> he's a troll
15:58 < azarus> Well... Linux is features first, security second, but hey, the most maintained *nix-like kernel there is.
15:58 < undefbeh> Armand: well I do support trump lol
15:58 < azarus> it's the most*
15:59 < undefbeh> Armand: go to any software development or hacking conferences, you will find 90% of the people having macbooks
15:59 < Armand> undefbeh: How's it feel to be poor?
15:59  * debkad assume that Armand read mind
15:59 < Armand> undefbeh: You mean, the ones that I attend ?
15:59 < Armand> Where Macbooks are in low numbers.
15:59 < undefbeh> yea or any
15:59 < Armand> Hummm
15:59 < triceratux> undefbeh: apple gave up on the desktop a couple years ago. theyve got their hands full trying to keep their phones relevant http://www.osnews.com/story/30286/Why_I_left_Mac_for_Windows_Apple_has_given_up
16:00 < undefbeh> I wonder if someone is called on stage and uses i3. uses his entire speech time on fixing projector :D
16:00 < undefbeh> triceratux: thats not official news
16:00 < Armand> Well, that's just irrelevant
16:00 < triceratux> undefbeh: well u arent either ;)
16:00 < noodlepie> Hiya Armand, undefbeh, triceratux, mawk and debkad!
16:00 < debkad> Hi noodlepie
16:01 < noodlepie> 'sup?
16:01 < undefbeh> setting up multi screen on almost anything but gnome is PITA
16:01 < Armand> Untrue
16:01  * noodlepie got my daily fix of Linux updates today. Yay!
16:01 < debkad> noodlepie: congra
16:01 < mawk> what does pita mean
16:01 < psychnosis> Setting up multi screen on i3 is easy
16:01 < undefbeh> no way
16:01 < mawk> it's some arab bread normally
16:01 < revel> mawk: Pain in the anus.
16:01 < Armand> undefbeh: Never had issue with multimonitor on any distro
16:01 < fendur> Armand: you can believe positive things about linux and simultaneously NOT respond to this person.
16:02 < Armand> Maybe you're just incompetent.
16:02 < undefbeh> psychnosis: how? automated.. how? I can always run scripts but thats not the point. I want automatic detection and setup
16:02 < Armand> fendur: the first part is simple.
16:02 < fendur> so is the second. just takes a touch of will power.
16:02 < fendur> also confidence
16:02 < psychnosis> Just put the xrandr setup in your config, that's it
16:02 < Armand> Ohh!
16:03 < Armand> I'm going to order that Pinebook soon
16:03 < rypervenche> undefbeh: I also use multi screens on i3. Not hard to set up. It's just xrandr and then normal built-in i3 stuff.
16:03 < undefbeh> rypervenche: you have script for it?
16:04 < undefbeh> psychnosis: and bind it to a key?
16:04 < undefbeh> in i3 config
16:04 < rypervenche> undefbeh: In my i3 config file: exec --no-startup-id "xrandr --output VGA1 --auto --left-of HDMI1 && xrandr --output VGA1 --primary"
16:04 < rypervenche> That's just one way. You could also set it up properly in X11 config.
16:04 < Psi-Jack> noodlepie: Heh, daily fix? Arch I guess?
16:05 < undefbeh> rypervenche: thats when you have external display always connected
16:05 < rypervenche> undefbeh: And what do you need?
16:05 < undefbeh> what about connecting the external display during and disconnecting it
16:05 < undefbeh> exec --no-startup runs only time. the display config
16:05 < rypervenche> undefbeh: Then make a udev rule that runs once the other screen is plugged in.
16:06 < rypervenche> Does udev work for monitors?
16:06 < undefbeh> haha thats what I thought so
16:06 < Psi-Jack> Monitors don't have /dev nodes
16:06 < undefbeh> so I spend entire day fixing external monitors on i3
16:06 < undefbeh> goood
16:06 < undefbeh> linux is free if your time has no value" -- Linus torvalds
16:06 < Psi-Jack> undefbeh: As opposed to "internal" monitors?
16:06 < psychnosis> i3 has always been for powerusers, and it will probably never be for "regular" users. If you know what you're doing, you can configure every aspect of it. If you don't, you'll just blow yourself up
16:06 < undefbeh> Psi-Jack: external monitor
16:06 < Armand> I get paid to use Linux, undefbeh
16:07 < Armand> You lose
16:07 < undefbeh> Armand: who pays you lol
16:07 < undefbeh> maybe 1 in 500 companies :P
16:07 < rypervenche> undefbeh: You just need to find some place where you can see the difference. You could have a script that loops and checks xrandr for monitors and if it finds it then it sets xrandr properly. Something like that would work too.
16:07 < Armand> Maybe a massive multinational, worth billions.
16:07 < undefbeh> rypervenche: the way I found to do that is set up key binding but that also works for one specific monitor.
16:07 < undefbeh> lol
16:07 < rypervenche> I'm sure there's something lower level for seeing when a monitor connects.
16:08 < undefbeh> I want auto detection and auto set up like in gnome or windows 10 or macOS
16:08 < rypervenche> undefbeh: Well, that's not automated, but that works too.
16:08 < undefbeh> understand?
16:08 < undefbeh> in i3.
16:08 < rypervenche> undefbeh: i3 can't do everything for you.
16:08 < undefbeh> Armand: canonical does the work, redhat steals it
16:08 < undefbeh> rypervenche: why..
16:08 < rypervenche> But you could put a script in there and have i3 start it.
16:08 < undefbeh> rypervenche: its the beast WM
16:08 < Armand> Do I care about your fake news, undefbeh ?
16:08 < Psi-Jack> undefbeh: What? Reverse that.
16:08 < rypervenche> undefbeh: Well, we're giving you answers and you're not really accepting any of them.
16:09 < undefbeh> rypervenche: if only it would work automatically
16:09 < fendur> why are you fools trying to convince this person? It's OK if someone doesn't understand what you understand. He's literally being an asshole about not knowing something (or maybe knowing something you don't).
16:09 < rypervenche> undefbeh: You can have it work automatically.
16:09 < psychnosis> It is autodetection, if xrandr doesn't find your second monitor it will just move on, if it finds it, it will configure it as you specified
16:09 < undefbeh> finding temporary hacks is not the solution. perhaps you will know it someday when you will use real Unix and not unix like
16:09 < undefbeh> rypervenche: ^
16:09 < Armand> HAHAHAAHA
16:09 < Armand> Pleb
16:09 < rypervenche> Right. Moving on then.
16:10 < rypervenche> Good luck getting your answer from people with that attitude.
16:10 < Psi-Jack> Yay. ;)
16:10 < undefbeh> lol
16:10 < undefbeh> truth is always bitter. damn
16:11 < Psi-Jack> Armand: Name-calling though, not appropriate. Just do as others, move along to someone whom actually wants actual help. :)
16:11 < Armand> Well, I'd think banning him would be better.
16:12 < Psi-Jack> Well, not like you can do that, can you. Instead you have the power of /ignore. :)
16:12  * Armand tickles Psi-Jack 
16:12 < rypervenche> lol
16:12 < psychnosis> Plus, it's an interesting discussion
16:12 < Armand> Not really
16:12 < rypervenche> I don't even know if that's considered sucking up...
16:13 < fendur> rypervenche++
16:13 < Armand> I prefer discussions with a factual, informed basis
16:14 < fendur> Armand: not clear why you stuck with that one so long, then.
16:14 < Armand> Because the kid is a retard.
16:14 < Psi-Jack> Heh, well, I'm quite happy. Last night, got Ceph Cache-Tiering setup with an SSD hot-storage writethrough backing, and now things are very fast. :)
16:14 < Psi-Jack> Armand: Name-calling again. Please stop.
16:14 < Armand> Damn, Psi-Jack
16:14 < fendur> Armand: that doesn't not flow logically from your other statements.
16:14 < fishguts> I have found a Windows program to visually re-order and rename photo files: FastStone Image Viewer. I don't have time to find a more canonical solution unfortunately.
16:14 < Armand> fendur: I'm not Vulcan. ;)
16:15 < Psi-Jack> fishguts: That is... unfortunate?
16:15 < SporkWitch> fishguts: man rename
16:15 < triceratux> well im finally a systemd believer. without systemctl you couldnt shut down systemd-resolved & install dnsmasq
16:15 < SporkWitch> lol
16:16 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: You make little sense.
16:16 < fendur> I got it
16:16 < fishguts> SporkWitch: Per my previous comment, I am trying to visually re-order a number of photographs, then rename the photos alphabetically in the visual order I have prescribed.
16:16 < noodlepie> Systemd GNOME/Gentoo works well for me here. I like Debian too, but only on slower machines where building from source would take an age. On my 8thread i7 laptop it flies!
16:17 < borkr> I'm trying to transmit and receive data via a pair of 915 MHz radio telemetry modules, but whatever I do I seem to get garbage. I'm sending "hello world" to the first radio module and receives "()))(�" on the other radio module. This is reproducible. I've tried using various C++ libraries and echo / cat using the terminal. Same thing. Is there a setting I should look out for, do I have flaw in my fundamental understanding or does it seem like on
16:17 < borkr> e or both of the modules are broken?
16:17 < SporkWitch> fishguts: as in arrange them in an arbitrary sequence and then have them renamed to fit that order?
16:17 < fendur> noodlepie: I'm not sure I'll ever understand why folks want to build everything that's already built.
16:17 < fishguts> SporkWitch: Yes.
16:17 < Psi-Jack> borkr: Do you have.. A Linux question?
16:18 < pnbeast> borkr, I'm not sure that's a Linux question, but if your results are repeatable, it's at least a hint that there's a trivial coding/decoding error, someplace.
16:18 < SporkWitch> borkr: if a sending X reliably produces Y this implies everything is working fine and you have an encoding/decoding issue
16:18 < borkr> Psi-Jack: I'm using streams to /dev/tty, are there any settings I could look out for, any way to debug serial communication on Linux?
16:19 < noodlepie> SporkWitch, it makes the install optimal on your computer.
16:19 < Psi-Jack> borkr: Baud rate, Parity, etc.
16:19 < florianbAT> borkr: sounds a lot like you're struggling with decoding
16:19 < SporkWitch> noodlepie: what are you rambling about and why are you pinging me?
16:19  * noodlepie is not pinging
16:19 < fendur> noodlepie: I said that, and what sort of gains do you notice?
16:20 < Psi-Jack> noodlepie: <-- this is "pinging" conversationally.
16:20 < SporkWitch> yeah, you are: [10:19:14] <noodlepie> SporkWitch, it makes the install optimal on your computer.
16:20 < noodlepie> And how is messaging with a prefixed name, pinging?
16:20 < fendur> focus!
16:21 < noodlepie> Set your focus to the locus of my hocus pocus! @:P-~
16:21 < fendur> shower and lunch o/
16:22 < Psi-Jack> noodlepie: beep beep
16:22 < SporkWitch> noodlepie: because any decent client will produce a notification when your name is seen in chat; traditionally it's considered rude unless responding directly to the person.  as your comment pinging me had nothing to do with anything i said or asked, it's considered rude, and i'm left wondering A) why you pinged me, B) wtf you're rambling about
16:23 < Psi-Jack> SporkWitch: Error 418: I am a teapot.
16:23 < SporkWitch> Psi-Jack: makes about as much sense
16:23 < noodlepie> ok
16:24 < Armand> SporkWitch: Hi!
16:24  * Armand runs away
16:28 < debkad> 0.0"`; xdotool windowactivate --sync $gg; xdotool click --window $gg --repea
16:28 < debkad> sorry
16:29 < Psi-Jack> gg
16:33 < Psi-Jack> Man.. Having cloud-init on Proxmox VE is pretty sweet. ;)
16:33 < mawk> proxmox is nice
16:33 < mawk> the lack of NAT in its config isn't
16:33 < Psi-Jack> What?
16:33 < mawk> I disabled all "firewall" options in the settings and setup my own thing for iptables
16:34 < mawk> well in the proxmox interface you can open ports and stuff, but there is nothing for doing NAT
16:34 < Psi-Jack> Why would you need or want nat?
16:34 < mawk> I've got only one IPv4
16:34 < mawk> and many containers
16:34 < mawk> starting from that, I need to do NAT to forward some ports to some containers
16:35 < Psi-Jack> And oh! You just reminded me, I need to make some Cat6 cables to plug in my secondary NIC's and setup an openvswitch private network. :)
16:35 < Psi-Jack> You don't need NAT for that.
16:35 < mawk> what do I need ?
16:35 < Psi-Jack> What's the actual situation better detailed, and I can help.
16:35 < mawk> I want to forward publicip:2222 to somecontainer:22
16:36 < Psi-Jack> That you do at the router level.
16:36 < mawk> you mean a container/vm dedicated to routing ?
16:36 < tds> that's what I do, it works nicely
16:36 < Psi-Jack> What's currently doing your routine?
16:36 < Psi-Jack> And yeah, that is definitely a way if you use a VM/container to be your router.
16:37 < mawk> I've got only one physical server, and nginx and iptables are on the host itself
16:37 < mawk> so the host is doing the routing
16:37 < Psi-Jack> Oh, well, that's bad.
16:37 < tds> having the host do routing also works, but is a bit nasty imo
16:37 < Psi-Jack> You shouldn't expose  your mastermind to the world like that, nor use services on the host OS. That's what VMs/Containers are for.
16:38 < mawk> I thought it was more logical to have routing on the host as it is the central piece of the network
16:38 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
16:39 < mawk> since I didn't find anything on proxmox side for doing NAT or advanced ipables rules I ended up making an iptables.service and a script that goes with it
16:39 < Psi-Jack> I actually have a VM called "frontend", that all it does is run haproxy to provide various routing to different VM's, by Host header, by SNI, by URI, etc.
16:40 < tds> mawk: proxmox has horrible built in qemu NAT (please don't use it though)
16:40 < mawk> and a list of rules in /root/rules.add.sh, when the rules get added they get recorded in reverse with -A replaced by -D in rules.del.sh, to be able to undo them as they were on adding
16:40 < pingfloyd> why isn't the kvm default nat not working for that?
16:40 < mawk> where do you see that tds ?
16:40 < mawk> it's a CLI thing ?
16:40 < tds> under the nic options
16:40 < tds> (for each vm/container)
16:40 < Psi-Jack> mawk: More-so, though, why don't you have a router appliance in front of all this?
16:41 < mawk> yeah why not
16:41 < Psi-Jack> EdgeRouter-X, $50, unless you have need for more than ~500Mbps internet speeds, then you need something like the EdgeRouter Lite.
16:41 < mawk> ah
16:41 < mawk> like that
16:41 < mawk> well my server is in a datacenter, not at home
16:41 < tds> heh, I was suspecting that might be the situation
16:41 < Psi-Jack> And?
16:41 < Psi-Jack> heh
16:41 < Psi-Jack> That changes nothing. :)
16:41 < pingfloyd> you should be able to use virt-manager or virsh to change that
16:42 < mawk> I can't go there and plug in something
16:42 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Proxmox VE
16:42 < mawk> I need to pay for the pro plan for that
16:42 < ijjijiijii> hire tom cruise to drop in from the ceiling and plug it in for you
16:42 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Hmm, well, run a VM to be your router "appliance" then.
16:42 < tds> if it's a cheapo dedicated box that's being run on a large scale, no chance you can persuade them to add your own hardware
16:42 < mawk> yeah
16:42 < tds> but yeah, I do something similar with just a container as a router, it works nicely
16:42 < Armand> ijjijiijii: Supply the gear, I'll do it for free.
16:42 < mawk> I thought my routing was too simple/not precious enough to put it in a container
16:43 < tds> my view has always been to keep the host as plain as possible, so I can easily just reinstall it and then move around VMs as required
16:43 < mawk> but now that I've spent hour setting it up again after a crash it seems a good idea
16:43 < pingfloyd> or network it into a real router
16:43 < mawk> some people use a pfsense VM but I don't like that solution, I need top speeds
16:43 < pingfloyd> if you're going that scale, why aren't you doing that way?
16:44 < Psi-Jack> mawk: heh. I recommend an actual VM for increased security
16:44 < mawk> I'd need to benchmark it a little then
16:44 < mawk> maybe using a virtio NIC I could keep my 1Gbps
16:44 < Psi-Jack> Yep
16:45 < tds> be warned, if you want to use pfsense it (well, freebsd) doesn't play nicely with virtio by default, you need to disable checksum offloading
16:45 < mawk> I see
16:45 < mawk> well I like iptables, I don't really need a web GUI or anything
16:45 < mawk> a linux vm would do
16:45 < tds> that's more like it, just do a plain linux vm then :)
16:46 < tds> also, you probably want to use a package like iptables-persistent, rather than writing your own service to add/remove rules
16:46 < mawk> what does it offer ?
16:46 < Psi-Jack> mawk: If you have enough nic cards in there you could possibly even pass thru a nic directly to the VM. But otherwise you can use openvswitch to bridge it to the VM and get pretty solid performance. Have the VM itself take up the public IP not the host.
16:46 < mawk> my iptables.service is integrated with other services that expect it
16:46 < mawk> like fail2ban which has PartOf=iptables.service in its .service
16:47 < tds> ah, it's nothing especially fancy, it's just a prepackaged way of doing it
16:47 < mawk> yeah Psi-Jack
16:47 < qkzoo1978> Good morning folks. I have a bunch of files "0001 alskdfjkl.pnn" to "2800 hglajks.pnn" that I need to remove the numbers from the beginning of. Some of these files have numbers in the name, after the initial 4 at the beginning, and I need to keep those. Can anyone point me in the right direction here?
16:47 < mawk> I've thought of using macvtap on the physical NIC to pass it to the VM
16:48 < mawk> on this NIC there are only the 3 public IPs
16:48 < Psi-Jack> Also maybe look into already well made firewall rules generators. Shorewall or FireHOL.
16:48 < tds> depending on the provider, you may also need to do nasty things to have the VM spoof the MAC address of the host
16:48 < qkzoo1978> I did try some scripts I found googling but I messed them up and ended up just deleting everything.
16:48 < solidfox> I like UFW
16:48 < mawk> I'm not a huge fan of these things normally Psi-Jack
16:48 < mawk> wrappers
16:48 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: eewwwwww
16:49 < Psi-Jack> mawk: check them out.
16:49 < tds> I think I'd say ewwww to firehol and shorewall as well ;)
16:49 < Psi-Jack> You will like one of them for sure.
16:49 < solidfox> It's easy to block everything except traffic from 1 computer for ssh for example.
16:50 < mawk> the script I use with my iptables.service is that: https://serveur.io/rules.sh
16:51 < mawk> I use some iptables extensions like physdev, sometimes "advanced" stuff using conntrack, etc; I fear often wrappers system can't handle that
16:52 < tds> iptables-persistent just loads in rules from two files (/etc/iptables/rules.v6 and .v4), and you can nicely get it to write any rules you've added manually back to the files
16:52 < tds> it just uses ip(6)tables-save and ip(6)tables-restore under the hood
16:53 < mawk> ah
16:53 < mawk> but it will take the fail2ban rules with it for instance
16:54 < mawk> ah, no sorry I misread
16:54 < tds> yeah, you need to stop/start fail2ban when you save :/
16:54 < tds> I just never save, and manually edit the file and restart the service to add the new rules
16:54 < tds> that way you also know that if you reboot, you won't have unsaved rules
16:55 < mawk> yeah
16:56 < Psi-Jack> meh, fail2ban, another hated thing of mine.
16:56 < qkzoo1978> Can somebody translate what this says: grep -Eo '[[:digit:]]{10}_'
16:56 < tds> but yes, I'd also say to just scrap fail2ban/sshguard/whatever :P
16:57 < Psi-Jack> OSSEC! ;)
16:57 < tds> (for ssh, at least)
16:57 < mawk> ten digits followed by _, qkzoo1978
16:57 < SporkWitch> qkzoo1978: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=regex+cheat+sheet and man grep
16:57 < tds> qkzoo1978: https://regex101.com/ is also very useful
16:57 < Psi-Jack> SporkWitch: You forgot the "POSIX" part of that search query. :p
16:57 < revel> The same thing as `egrep -o '[0-9]{10}_'`
16:57 < qkzoo1978> sporkwitch the flags I got from the man, but the query was confusing me.
16:57 < qkzoo1978> Thank you folks
16:58 < SporkWitch> qkzoo1978: hence the search string to get you the rest
16:58 < SporkWitch> Psi-Jack: i didn't, i merely pointed him down the path to find his answers, or at least a better question
16:58 < qkzoo1978> So, grep -Eo '[[:digit:]]{4} ' would return just the first four digits up to the space?
16:58 < Psi-Jack> Okay, maybe neglected was a better word for youi then.
16:59 < qkzoo1978> the first space I mean.
16:59 < phogg> qkzoo1978: it would match four digits in a row
16:59 < SporkWitch> Psi-Jack: deliberately omitted.  Also, the last time i ran a search for a cheat sheet the results either included multiple regex standards, or links to alternates
16:59 < phogg> qkzoo1978: so 123 would not match 1234 would, so would 12345
17:00 < Psi-Jack> deliberately omitted == neglected
17:00 < SporkWitch> Psi-Jack: debatable
17:00 < phogg> qkzoo1978: but only the 1234 part of 12345 would be printed due to -o
17:00 < SporkWitch> Psi-Jack: neglect implies, well, neglect.  There's nothing negligent about a deliberate action.
17:00 < qkzoo1978> phogg that's ok, all the numbers are in a 4 digit pattern, like 0001 to 2500
17:01 < phogg> qkzoo1978: you also don't need ERE for this: grep -o '[[:digit:]]\{4\}'
17:02 < qkzoo1978> phogg, oh thanks
17:03 < qkzoo1978> phogg, will that still include the space after the numbers?
17:03 < phogg> qkzoo1978: no
17:03 < Psi-Jack> SporkWitch: Willfull condescending reactions, lmgtfy, rtfm, specifically witholding key information (POSIX) == neglect.
17:04 < phogg> qkzoo1978: you would have to add a literal space after the braces
17:04 < Psi-Jack> Credit goes to phogg this round. :)
17:04 < SporkWitch> Psi-Jack: no, it doesn't, and there was nothing condescending about it.  he asked a bad question, i gave him a way to answer it and/or ask a better one.  Nothing was left out due to neglect or forgetfulness.  It was tailored to point him on the path he should have started on.
17:04 < qkzoo1978> phogg sweet, thanks
17:04 < phogg> Psi-Jack: for?
17:04 < Psi-Jack> SporkWitch: lmgtfy is 100% condescending.
17:04 < Psi-Jack> phogg: Helping with the regex. :)
17:05 < SporkWitch> Psi-Jack: the way you're trying to use neglect far better fits your handholding, as you're neglecting all the lessons that will make someone learn and become self-sufficient, instead creating a helpless dependent suckling at your teat
17:05 < phogg> Psi-Jack: No. It's a way to hint to the person he could have solved the problem on his own, so maybe next time he'll try that, without a lot of typing.
17:05 < Psi-Jack> jiijijjijj: It's not better.
17:06 < qkzoo1978> sporkwitch I did the leg work, but reg ex is a complicated beast I don't have time to research and read books on right at the moment, but thank you for the help.
17:06 < jiijijjijj> ?
17:06 < phogg> Psi-Jack: revel provided his answer first
17:06 < Psi-Jack> SporkWitch: Well.. This happends to be a help channel. :)
17:06 < revel> Eh?
17:06 < SporkWitch> qkzoo1978: you wouldn't need to
17:06 < debkad> o_O
17:06 < SporkWitch> Psi-Jack: and unlike you, i provide help, instead of doing it all for them
17:06 < Psi-Jack> Unlike me?
17:07 < SporkWitch> Psi-Jack: if they want people to do it all for them they should check out upwork; all you're doing is increasing support burden
17:07 < phogg> qkzoo1978: It's not like there's a lot of research involved. A simple regex quickref card would have had enough info.
17:07 < debkad> WWE fire
17:07 < SporkWitch> phogg: which is what my search query would produce for him :)
17:07 < phogg> SporkWitch: I know.
17:07 < phogg> This isn't a help channel. This is a support channel. Subtle difference.
17:08 < mawk> I have a file descriptor that I want to be non-blocking for read, and blocking for write
17:08 < mawk> is that common ?
17:09 < debkad> chown
17:09 < SporkWitch> phogg: not a hair worth splitting.  the point is that this isn't the "do all my work for me" channel.  The point is to provide guidance, in the hope that they learn and can contribute back themselves; it is not to do it for them, so they never learn or contribute back
17:09 < bls> so we should have a bot that responds to all sentences ending with a ? with a lmgtfy link. world hunger solved
17:09 < phogg> SporkWitch: Indeed. The point is to provide support, such as helpful links (as you did) or just condolences if there's nothing else that can be done.
17:10 < phogg> SporkWitch: whether these things *help* is not really our business
17:10 < jiijijjijj> Psi-Jack: i noticed you were using sms speak earlier which is prohibited by channel regulations, you typed "gg" which should be "good game", for future corrections
17:10 < SporkWitch> mawk: i would think the default behaviour would be non-blocking for read; write i believe normally requires something along the lines of a lock file
17:10 < mawk> I don't mean locking, SporkWitch , but blocking
17:11 < phogg> mawk: I haven't audited a lot of code bases or anything, but I've also not needed that myself. Does it matter?
17:11 < mawk> if you're reading from a pipe and it has nothing to read, it will either block (in blocking mode) or fail (in nonblocking mode)
17:11 < phogg> mawk: not fail, return immediately without data
17:11 < mawk> and I want the blocking behavior for writing, and the non-blocking behavior for reading
17:11 < mawk> I can't duplicate the fd and set O_NONBLOCK on the second, because the file descriptors are linked together
17:11 < bls> I don't believe it's possible as you set the mode at fd creation time
17:11 < phogg> mawk: don't link them, then
17:12 < mawk> you can alter it using fcntl, bls
17:12 < bls> you'd need a new/separate fd
17:12 < phogg> yeah, two fds is the only way. If you can't have two then you can't do it.
17:12 < mawk> phogg: it returns immediately with EGAIN/EWOUDBLOCK
17:12 < bls> mawk: yeah, but I've not had that work in practice
17:12 < phogg> mawk: those are not errors
17:12 < phogg> or rather, not failure conditions
17:12 < mawk> read() returns -1, it's an error
17:12 < mawk> yeah
17:12 < mawk> not hard errors
17:13 < mawk> I don't know if I can have two; it's a tun device
17:13 < phogg> it is, shall we say, a non-success case. Not all non-successes are failures (-;
17:13 < mawk> no, fails with EBUSY
17:13 < mawk> my brand new idea falls in the water
17:14 < mawk> I can set/unset O_NONBLOCK before reading or writing, but it could take time
17:14 < sevagh> hi all. i'm trying to write some C code that does `clone()` with `CLONE_NEWUSER`. my goal is to try to create a namespace with isolated users/groups. however, when i execute `getpwent()` from the child, it shows the same output as the parent. is that expected? i'm checking the namespace/clone/getpwent man pages but i'm lost
17:14 < phogg> mawk: it could also block forever
17:14 < bomb> i'm also lost reading your question
17:15 < sevagh> what's the expected interaction supposed to be with pwent and CLONE_NEWUSER
17:15 < mawk> how do you call clone() sevagh ?
17:15 < mawk> it's a tricky call, the glibc wrapper is terrible
17:15 < mawk> also sevagh user namespaces aren't related to /etc/passwd
17:16 < mawk> /etc/passwd is a userspace thing, almost nothing to do with UID numbers intrinsic to each processes
17:16 < sevagh> i'm trying to find which manpage i copied my sample program from but it was one of the namespace examples which demonstrated `CLONE_NEWUTS`, and showed that the child and parent had different hostnames
17:16 < mawk> yes
17:16 < sevagh> and i just inserted `getpwent` code in different spots
17:16 < mawk> well you can for instance touch a file, sevagh
17:17  * phogg reads clone(2)
17:17 < mawk> and see the UID is different on the host than in the container
17:17 < phogg> holy crap
17:17 < mawk> read unshare() rather phogg
17:17 < mawk> clone is awful
17:17 < phogg> mawk: you're not kidding!
17:17 < mawk> lol
17:17 < phogg> a complicated call and badly documented too
17:17 < mawk> the real underlying syscall signature varies by architecture
17:17 < mawk> some arguments get swapped
17:18 < mawk> but I use it nonetheless, better than having to mess with the stack and stuff
17:18 < mawk> I just want it to behave like fork()
17:18 < Psi-Jack> What about spoon()?
17:18 < mawk> lol
17:18 < Psi-Jack> Or spork()?
17:19 < phogg> I suppose clone is only for cases where you really really want to share address space?
17:19 < mawk> sevagh: you create the user namespace, in the child you setuid to uid 0, in the parent you setup the mappings between outside and inside UIDs, that's what you do right ?
17:19 < mawk> also if you're unprivileged you need to disable setgroups, but you can't do unprivileged user namespaces since some paranoid had a patch merged into debian, RHEL, and some others
17:19 < sevagh> i don't setuid actually
17:19 < mawk> unless you turn a little knob with sysctl
17:20 < mawk> well the UID is undefined inside the child
17:20 < sevagh> literally just print the results of `getpwent` (which i'm thinking now isn't an indication of the CLONE_NEWUSER call "failing")
17:20 < mawk> no, don't use that
17:20 < mawk> it's not a good indicator, /etc/passwd isn't a user namespace thing
17:20 < mawk> you need to have a lock between child and parent
17:20 < mawk> you clone()/unshare(), then halt the child
17:20 < sevagh> ok instead of optimizing for my poor understanding of my current predicament, let me talk about what i want to do
17:21 < mawk> in the parent you map the UIDs using /proc/$child_pid/uidmap , same for GIDs, then you wake the child
17:21 < sevagh> i want a namespace which doesn't share /etc/sudoers with the parent
17:21 < mawk> then in the child you setresuid(0, 0, 0), and you're good to go
17:21 < mawk> well then you have many things to do
17:21 < mawk> "many"
17:21 < mawk> you have several ways, all of them include a mount namespace
17:22 < sevagh> i was just reading about that, and my next step was to test that one
17:22 < mawk> the most basic would be creating a mount namespace, then binding some new file over /etc/passwd
17:22 < mawk> but keeping the /etc/passwd of the host should be alright
17:22 < mawk> you'll be UID 0 inside the namespace, really mapped to uid whatever outside
17:22 < mawk> and when you use the filesystem, the outside UID will be used
17:23 < sevagh> ok. thanks much for the advice. i'll chew on it a bit
17:23 < Psi-Jack> sevagh: Mmmm.. Sweet mastication?
17:23 < mawk> for an easy lock between parent and child, see eventfd in semaphore mode, it's extremely easy and lightweight
17:24 < mawk> otherwise you can have a minimal system in a separate folder, sevagh
17:25 < mawk> created using debian's debootstrap for instance
17:25 < mawk> then if uid 0 inside is mapped to uid 100000 outside, you offset the uid/gid of every file inside the directory with 100000
17:25 < mawk> or just chown them all to 100000:100000, shouldn't break too much things
17:26 < Psi-Jack> That's not a 2^65536 uid:gid.
17:26 < mawk> yeah
17:26 < mawk> but it doesn't matter too much, nobody will see it
17:26 < mawk> inside the container you will see UID 0 as usual
17:27 < Psi-Jack> Well, it would matter, if it was an nspawn container :)
17:27 < mawk> the filesystem needs to support 32 bits uid, of course
17:27 < mawk> why that ?
17:27 < Psi-Jack> nspawn is wierd like that?
17:28 < mawk> nspawn can use that feature yeah
17:28 < mawk> you just pass -U and it will automagically pick an UID offset, then offset every UID in the root fs (so make a copy first), then spawn the container using an user namespace
17:28 < Psi-Jack> Not just -U, but -U and one more argument.
17:28 < mawk> and overall that should be very secure, now it just lacks apparmor/seccomp for airtight security
17:29 < mawk> -U is --private-users=pick --private-users-chown
17:29 < Psi-Jack> Is it?
17:29 < mawk> it encapsulates the other arguments
17:29 < mawk> yeah
17:29 < Psi-Jack> I thought -U was just --unprivileged.
17:29 < mittak> measuring my wireless transfer (e.g. with nload or glances) shows speeds that are higher than my real bandwidth. i noticed this while downloading a fast torrent. can anyone make sense of this?
17:30 < mawk> that would be --private-users I guess
17:30 < Psi-Jack> Meh, I could be wrong. Only barely tried out nspawn a couple times.
17:30 < mawk> nspawn is very nice overall
17:30 < Psi-Jack> Concept seems sound, though. But in every case, I just couldn't make use of it.
17:31 < Psi-Jack> I tried to run plex in an nspawn container. :)
17:31 < mawk> it didn't work ?
17:31 < Psi-Jack> Ended up just running it in the VM the nspawn was running in. :)
17:31 < mawk> lol
17:31 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Mostly permissions issues with the ceph-mounted /srv/ resource.
17:31 < mawk> ah
17:31 < mawk> yeah
17:32 < Psi-Jack> As in, I wouldn't have benefited from the container unless I completely restructured /everything/.
17:32 < mawk> nspawn is much more flexible than lxc in that regard, you can bind mount stuff in the root dir easily, or just copy, paste, anything
17:32 < mawk> mount --bind dir $nspawn_root/otherdir just works fine
17:32 < Psi-Jack> nspawn's bind mounting is wierd, though. It doesn't show up in the mount tables.
17:33 < mawk> yeah
17:33 < TwoIce> Hi. Can you please help me find the correct channel to ask if this is not it?: I'm seting up a new (home) server. I have installed Ubuntu, and then Xen (so dom0 is Ubuntu). I have 2 disks for the "host" os, and 6 disks for data. I want to run ZFS on FreeBSD, and I want the disks to be encrypted.
17:33 < mawk> it's done in the other mount namespaces, and that one is set as private
17:33 < TwoIce> So far I have two ideas. 1) encrypt using luks on dom0 and expose /dev/mapper/decrypted_disk-[0-5] to FreeBSD running as domU guest.
17:33 < mawk> I've strace'd nspawn to see how it works
17:33 < TwoIce> 2) expose raw /dev/sd[c-h] to FreeBSD running as domU guest and do geli -> zfs in the guest.
17:33 < Psi-Jack> TwoIce: Any particular reason Xen?
17:33 < mawk> when I tried to recode it
17:33 < TwoIce> Any clever advice?
17:33 < TwoIce> Psi-Jack: Why not? I have used VirtualBox for a while, and thought Xen would give better performance
17:34 < Psi-Jack> TwoIce: KVM is the VM hypervisor of choice.
17:34 < Psi-Jack> TwoIce: libvirtd-bin, virt-manager, virt-viewer, virsh, qemu
17:35 < Psi-Jack> Just my $0.02 worth. Red Hat abandoned Xen for KVM, Ubuntu favors KVM, etc.
17:35 < mustu> guys in the case of non-transparent proxy.. who makes the DNS query.. the proxy of the originating client?
17:35 < mawk> if it's enabled yes
17:35 < mawk> with SOCKS5
17:35 < TwoIce> Hmm. How are they performance wize?
17:35 < Psi-Jack> TwoIce: 99% of physical hardware.
17:35 < TwoIce> I appreciate the $0.02 input!
17:36 < Psi-Jack> And far easier to work with.
17:36 < Psi-Jack> TwoIce: Another thought is Proxmox VE, which is Debian-based, bare metal KVM+LXC with tooling and webui of their own.
17:37 < lukey_> The only advantages of Xen IMHO are 1) better Windoze support and 2) Xen Remus
17:37 < lukey_> But KVM will get Qemu-COLO soonish
17:37 < Psi-Jack> Qemu has fantastic, better than Xen support.
17:38 < Psi-Jack> But then, Windows. Better off without. :)
17:40 < TwoIce> No Windows here, so that's not needed
17:40 < TwoIce> Might want to go for KVM then
17:40 < Psi-Jack> TwoIce: Look it up, both options I provided. :)
17:41 < Psi-Jack> Strongly recommend Proxmox VE, personally.
17:41 < TwoIce> But the question still remains. Give FreeBSD guest a decrypted device? Or decrypt in guest?
17:41 < Psi-Jack> Also, Why FreeBSD, and why ZFS?
17:42 < TwoIce> Hehe
17:42 < Psi-Jack> Seriously. :)
17:42 < TwoIce> ZFS because I like it, and have used it for years and I'm happy with it. FreeBSD because I have used ZFSonLinux in Ubuntu and want to try it in FreeBSD
17:43 < Psi-Jack> What specific features of ZFS do you like?
17:44 < TwoIce> mainly scrub, snapshots, zfs send and recv
17:44 < TwoIce> What do you suggest? Why not ZFS?
17:44 < Psi-Jack> Better question is: Why ZFS at all? I can give you much better solutions to all of that.
17:46 < revel> Psi-Jack: Okay, what to do for snapshots?
17:47 < Psi-Jack> borgbackup. Which does deduplication, compression, encryption, remote-ssh-tunneling, and mounting of any backup history item for recovery of part or all.
17:47 < TwoIce> So far in life I have used extX, NTFS, FAT, AFS, UFS and ZFS. ZFS definitely give me the best experience out of those.
17:47 < Psi-Jack> Way smaller than ZFS would be, wasting far less storage. :)
17:47 < Psi-Jack> What, no XFS? For shame. :)
17:48 < FPtje> Does anyone have experience with 2-in-1s? I can't seem to figure out what's disabling my touch screen and stylus input when I fold my screen backwards...
17:49 < Psi-Jack> What's a "2-in-1?"
17:49 < FPtje> It's a laptop where you can fold the screen 360 degrees so you basically get a tablet
17:49 < Psi-Jack> That's called a "laptop"
17:50 < Psi-Jack> I have one of those myself, my work laptop I special ordered. :)
17:50 < ananke> no, a laptop can't do that
17:50 < Psi-Jack> Sure it can.
17:50 < Psi-Jack> As I just said, I have one.
17:50 < FPtje> eh, definitions, Psi-Jack, does your touch input still work when you fold the screen into tablet mode?
17:50 < Psi-Jack> HP Envy, they call it "convertable". heh
17:51 < Psi-Jack> FPtje: Yes. It actually specifically shuts off the keyboard after a certain threshold.
17:51 < ananke> it's 2-in-1. a new concept was introduced to encompass this new functionality. and yes, some may call it convertible. however, traditional 'laptop' definition doesn't feature that
17:51 < Psi-Jack> But the touch screen still works.
17:51 < twainwek> i love 2-in-1s... they try to be a laptop and a tablet, and fail at both
17:51 < FPtje> Psi-Jack, For me it also turns off the keyboard, but sadly also the touch input :(
17:51 < azarus> I switched from ZFS from XFS; having that out-of-tree module bothered me and made my systems unbootable quite often :/
17:52 < azarus> Forgetting to compile the module again on a kernel upgrade was frustrating.
17:52 < azarus> from ZFS to XFS*
17:52 < Psi-Jack> azarus++
17:52 < azarus> and XFS has been pretty good to me.
17:53 < azarus> Also, sometimes, while running ZFS, QEMU had issues allocating memory.
17:53 < Psi-Jack> I ran Proxmox VE on servers with ZFS on a dedicated storage cluster, providing over NFSv4 and iSCSI the disks.
17:53 < Psi-Jack> Performance, was... terrible.
17:53 < azarus> dropping the caches made QEMU work again, but it was tedious
17:54 < azarus> XFS is much more conservative with the memory, in my experience.
17:55 < azarus> And yet... performance isn't worse?
17:55  * azarus is confused
17:59 < debkad> seems like cron and pulseaudio are enemies
17:59 < revel> Wait, why cron?
18:00 < revel> Not even a specific implementation of cron, just cron in general?
18:00 < Psi-Jack> azarus: XFS performance is astounding, actually.
18:01 < mawk> can I send an error code to an application connect()ing to my tun device ?
18:01 < Psi-Jack> debkad: Does... not.... compute. Error 418: I'm a teapot.
18:01 < mawk> in the same manner as unreachable routes for instance
18:01 < debkad> revel: it is a job ( crontab ) to start an audio stream, it work fine only if no other player around (as ex, if I watch youtube, I got a Device or resource is busy
18:02 < revel> Let me test that out.
18:02 < Psi-Jack> Because: You're doing it wrong.
18:02 < debkad> hmm
18:02 < azarus> Psi-Jack: I should benchmark against ext4 ;)
18:03 < debkad> If i pause youtube, the cron job start
18:03 < lukey_> debkad: Your other player will go trough pulseaudio which will open the audio device exclusively
18:03 < Psi-Jack> debkad: What are you using?
18:04 < revel> Hmm. Weird.
18:05 < lukey_> debkad: You cronjob probably wants to open the audio device directly via alsa
18:05 < debkad> I think you're right
18:06 < debkad> tried with mplayer and mpv as a player to play that audio stream but got the same error
18:08 < lukey_> debkad: -ao=pulse maybe
18:08 < debkad> lukey_: I will try that and back to you
18:15 < TwoIce> Psi-Jack: After reading a few articles comparing Xen, KVM and their futures I'm going for KVM. Thanks for stearing me in that direction
18:17 < zeffy> anyone using dvwa ?
18:17 < debkad> lukey_: same problem
18:26 < logithack> i'm going to return a laptop i bought a couple of days ago. it had Linpus installed. i left it there and installed Linux Mint alongside. i've erased the partition Mint was on using gparted. now Linpus wont start anymore. i get to that basic grub shell. the Linpus partition is still there. any ideas?
18:29 < revel> I'm guessing you replaced Linpus' bootloader with the one Mint had and it didn't have an entry for Linpus?
18:29 < promach2> using https://gist.github.com/tonyc/1384523 , I got the following output. What does this imply ?
18:29 < promach2> [phung@archlinux ~]$ ps -e | grep nautilus
18:29 < promach2>  6151 pts/2    00:00:00 nautilus
18:29 < promach2> [phung@archlinux ~]$ lsof -p 6151 -ad 8
18:29 < promach2> COMMAND   PID  USER   FD      TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF  NODE NAME
18:29 < promach2> nautilus 6151 phung    8u  a_inode   0,13        0 11419 [eventfd]
18:29 < promach2> [phung@archlinux ~]$
18:30 < revel> I'd try chrooting in to the Linpus install from a liveCD/USB and running grub-mkconfig.
18:30 < logithack> revel: you might be right. is there a way i can restore Linpus' bootloader?
18:30 < revel> promach2: Please don't spam.
18:30 < revel> logithack: Exactly what I just said, probably. Assuming it was GRUB, that is.
18:31 < stevendale> How to kill spider
18:31 < stevendale> Pls help
18:31 < revel> logithack: Assuming it has grub-install, this should work: https://howtoubuntu.org/how-to-repair-restore-reinstall-grub-2-with-a-ubuntu-live-cd
18:31 < w00dsman> 0 DAYS SINCE THE LAST BUFFER ACCIDENT: Clipboard safety is our union goal!
18:31 < Armand> stevendale: Spider, meet foot...
18:31 < logithack> revel: ill try that. my other attempt would be to wipe the disk and install Linpus manually. however, it seems to be a distro you wanna avoid. i found only one download source that gave me an iso for Linpus 1.9, whcih is not the latest. when i boot that from a usb drive, it says "Error 15: File not found" in the grub menu
18:31 < w00dsman> !pastefail
18:32 < w00dsman> oh, that's on a different server....nevermind
18:32 < Armand> lolololol
18:32 < debkad> that happen
18:33 < revel> s/grub-install/update-grub/
18:34 < logithack> revel: i'm creating a live usb with mint now. im going to test your approach and get back to you in a minute. thanks!
18:34 < debkad> lukey_: look at my crontab line: 17 17 * * * mpv --no-video -ao=pulse ~/myaudio.mp3 > /dev/null 2>&1
18:35 < revel> -ao?
18:35 < revel> Pretty sure it's --ao
18:35 < solsTiCe> hi. I have a tool not written by me that use arp -n somehostname. It was working fine. Now I use it from another host on the LAN and it doe snot work anymore. Meaning arp -n returns unkwon host. Why could the reason ? How cna I change my setup so that it works ? host thehsotname works though so I don't why arp- n does not
18:36 < debkad> revel: It is mpv not mplayer
18:36 < revel> Doesn't seem like --no-video is a valid option either.
18:36 < revel> debkad: I know.
18:36 < debkad> revel: from mpv --help: -ao <drv>        select audio output driver ('-ao help' for a list)
18:37 < debkad> for the --no-video may be i did a fault when trying mplayer
18:37 < revel> Hmm. Nevermind, my zsh tab thing doesn't list --no-video (just --no-vid and some longer options like --no-video-osd)
18:37 < solsTiCe> I thought arp is about ip<==>mac so why does it do name resolution by the way ?
18:38 < revel> AAnd -ao also works.
18:38 < revel> Alright then.
18:39 < jml2> solsTiCe, for ipv4 it is, for ipv6 it is something different
18:39 < debkad> revel: could be a bug about my intel chip card?
18:39 < jml2> solsTiCe, arp is an acronmy
18:39 < logithack> revel: i'm following the guide in the link you gave me. when executing "grub-install /dev/sda", it reports "The file /boot/grub/stage1 not read correctly."
18:39 < jml2> solsTiCe, *acronmy
18:39 < jml2> omg
18:40 < jml2> keyboard is jamming here
18:40 < jml2> ./acronym!/ finally
18:40  * jml2 needs new keyb
18:40  * jml2 ><
18:40 < promach2> revel: do you have any comments regarding my lsof output just now?
18:41 < revel> logithack: Hmm. Do you have a seperate /boot partition or is it just there?
18:41 < socomm> solsTiCe: IPv6 uses neighbor solicitation.
18:41 < socomm> solsTiCe: https://keepingitclassless.net/2011/10/neighbor-solicitation-ipv6s-replacement-for-arp/
18:41 < lukey_> debkad: -ao=pulse -vo=null works for me at least via ssh...
18:41 < jml2> and router AD/SOC as well.
18:41 < revel> debkad: If it's not crashing and burning, then I doubt it's hardware.
18:41 < debkad> lukey_: ok I will test that
18:42 < jml2> ipv6 uses icmp for its neighbor messages -- which differs greatly than ipv4's arp..
18:42 < jml2> solsTiCe, "arp -n" shows learned mac addresses for the lan your local machine is able to reach...
18:43 < revel> promach2: Means it has something of type a_inode open. No idea what that is.
18:43 < jml2> solsTiCe, before an ip address can be used on the lan (just the lan), the mac address first needs to be learned for that destination machine..
18:43 < jml2> solsTiCe, everything beyond the router, the mac address of the router is used..
18:43 < tunekey> hey guys what are the chances of the windows 10 installs on pb being poisoned?
18:44 < revel> Something about eventfd, no idea.
18:44 < socomm> What is PB?
18:44 < jml2> tunekey, what's windows 10?
18:44 < logithack> revel: sorry, i got disconnected. have you posted anything regarding my issue int he meantime?
18:44 < jml2> tunekey, is that a Linux Desktop?
18:44 < revel> logithack: Does it have a seperate /boot partition you should mount first maybe?
18:44 < jml2> socomm, piratebay lol
18:44 < jml2> tunekey, no torrents here with piratebay is permissible afaik..
18:44 < revel> tunekey: This isn't the channel for that.
18:45 < socomm> Pirated version being compromised? Fat chance!
18:45 < logithack> revel: oh it does. /dev/sda1 is a fat16 partition with the flags "boot,esp"
18:46 < revel> You're not on EFI, are you?
18:46 < jml2> logithack, you should be using update-grub if you have efi..  that should be creating a new .efi file somewhere -- but I think you need to have /boot/efi << as a mountpoint first before applying update-grub<enter>
18:46 < jml2> logithack, you need to mount it manually -- and you dont need to have it constantly mounted on boot up with fstab
18:47 < jml2> logithack, or else it is grub-install that would add the .efi file to the efi partition
18:47 < jml2> logithack, update-grub I think only updates grub.cfg
18:47 < jml2> (debian's way of updating grub.cfg is with its script update-grub)
18:47 < isokee> hi everyone, could you please recommend a quiz software that runs on the command line?
18:48 < logithack> jml2: well, i'm trying to get grub working again so it recognises that installation of Linpus thats on the disk. i'm following the advice revel posted: https://howtoubuntu.org/how-to-repair-restore-reinstall-grub-2-with-a-ubuntu-live-cd
18:48 < revel> Is it EFI though?
18:48 < lukey_> logithack: Why do you want to restore it anyways?
18:49 < revel> To return it or something.
18:49 < jml2> logithack, if you're fixing a non-fixed disk, it is better to fix that "system" with its own installer media-boot
18:49 < logithack> lukey_: because im sending the laptop back and im not sure whether theyll cry cos their Linpus will no longer boot.
18:49 < jml2> logithack, then do a chroot into the broken system, and issue a update-grub/grub-install/ from there
18:49 < dannylee> <<<<-----
18:50 < lukey_> logithack: I'd first try super-grub disk, boot Linpus with that and the reinstall Linpus from grub.
18:50 < logithack> revel: im not sure whether its EFI. where can i see that?
18:50 < FPtje> Is there any way to find out what's disabling my touchscreen/wacom input when my lid is folded backwards? It's definitely not xinput, as that lists the devices as still enabled.
18:50 < jml2> logithack, if you want to fix a distro XYZ, you should be booting with distro-installer XYZ and chroot from it..
18:50 < lukey_> logithack: Or tell them they should restore their image
18:50 < irgendwer4711> hi, how to use gxine with dvb-c?
18:50 < revel> logithack: What are the contents of /dev/sda1?
18:51 < logithack> jml2: yeah, but thats the problem. i could only find one download source for a Linpus iso adn that gave me 1.9, which isnt the most recent. i created a bootable usb drive and booted from it. as soon as the grub menu appears, it says "Error 15: File not found" and fails to boot.
18:51 < jml2> logithack, after that,  update-grub from any other distro will "find" that previously broken distro <<< I noticed this behaviour with "update-grub"
18:51 < logithack> revel: theres a folder inside called "EFI". so weve got that
18:52 < logithack> jml2: after what? after booting into distro XYZ, in my case Linpus? as said, i cant boot into it cos i cant find a working iso.
18:52 < revel> Well, that answers that question.
18:55 < jml2> logithack, you will need to contact linus.com and ask for a "pricing quotation" in order to obtain a copy of the iso, see here-> http://www.linpus.com/products/product_lists_en/parent_id:40
18:55 < jml2> logithack, you can contact them for support
18:56 < jml2> logithack, it is not a community distribution so I wouldn't help you on how to fix this :))
18:56  * jml2 :)
18:56 < revel> Oh, boy. That website...
18:56 < jml2> ./linpus.com/
18:56 < jml2> XD
18:58 < logithack> well, in fact the laptop is shipped with Linpus so theres at least something on it. i think they wont be able to argue that ive damaged the laptop just cos their bloody OS wont boot. they can reinstall it
18:58 < jml2> then you should of gotten a copy of the iso when you bought your laptop, contact your vendor
18:59 < logithack> i just wanted to make everything work seeamlessly. if a customer puts windows on it and the entire disk is erased, and after 5 days they decide to send it back, they cant restore the original state either.
19:02 < socomm> logithack: thats what recoery partitions are for
19:06 < hk238> hello I need to enable sound in debian, I have this soundcard asus xonar or something like that, does someone know what do Ihave to do?
19:07 < socomm> hk238: There is a WHOLE channel dedicated to #debian.
19:08 < socomm> And no doubt a wiki article somewhere on the web that covers just the thing you are trying to solve.
19:08 < mawk> there is a magnificient /* [unimplemented] */ in the source code of the tun device for disabling the checksums
19:08 < mawk> that's great
19:08 < nostrora> Hello! Do you know an RFC for server naming ? i'm looking for a name for my home server nextcloud
19:09 < jml2> nostrora, rfc?  you mean iana suggestions for local lan names?
19:10 < jml2> nostrora, .local   LOL
19:10 < jml2> nostrora, server.privatelan.local  is an example
19:10 < nostrora> jml2: RFC or good convention for sysadmin server naming. like character of series but i don't think so..
19:11 < jml2> nostrora, you said "home server"
19:11 < jml2> nostrora, and .local is a recommendation by the iana folks :)
19:11 < jml2> as so as .onion :)
19:11 < nostrora> ok!
19:11 < jml2> nostrora, https://www.iana.org/assignments/special-use-domain-names/special-use-domain-names.xhtml
19:12 < jml2> nostrora, see the bottom of that page :P
19:12 < jml2> nostrora, those domains. are not permissible on the internet...
19:12 < jml2> nostrora, and will never become available on the public dns ...
19:12 < jml2> nostrora, so they're good to use for the lan things..
19:13 < nostrora> It's mostly about the hostname name
19:13 < nostrora> home-server seem good :)
19:13 < rendar> does modifing a file inside a directory changes directory's mtime? or is it changed only when a file is created inside that directory?
19:13 < jml2> nostrora, those are domain names
19:13 < rasknikoff> :p
19:13 < jml2> nostrora, domain names that are not public...
19:13 < jml2> nostrora, so you add your hostnames to the domainnames suffix..
19:14 < nostrora> jml2: irrelevant
19:14 < jml2> uh ok..
19:14 < Armand> So, you're not talking about registered domains then ?
19:14 < nostrora> jml2: sorry but you are out of scope about my question, i'm sure i'm not very well with english
19:16 < jml2> suppose you have coca-cola.com on your "local dns server" -- then coca-cola the company registers this domain in the public.  This means your lan computers will never go to the public coca-cola.com site :)
19:16 < jml2> that's why those iana domain names are suggested..
19:16 < dannylee> coca yum
19:16 < nostrora> jml2: yep, out of scope x)
19:16 < jml2> nostrora, applies to mdns as well..
19:16 < jml2> nostrora, probably your gateway box dhpcd server can be easily assigned your preferred domain name..
19:17 < nostrora> jml2: this is absolutely not my question
19:17 < jml2> if you're asking about what characters not to use, there's of course the RFCs for that
19:17 < jml2> ^
19:17 < jml2> well it is part of your question
19:17 < jml2> you're asking about "home server" :)
19:17 < jml2> lol
19:17 < jml2> for that you query "syntax"
19:18 < nostrora> not really, i'm talking about finding an hostname for my computers in my network. there isn't an good recomendation for that ?
19:19 < jml2> nostrora, yeah I know one.
19:19 < socomm> computer1.local.net
19:19 < jml2> nostrora, it's called "<the name of your distro>"
19:19 < socomm> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1178
19:19 < jml2> nostrora, use your installer's auto suggestion.
19:19 < jml2> ^
19:19 < jml2> lol
19:19 < nostrora> jml2: problem it's i have same distro on many computers. 2 Ubuntu, 2 arch linux, 1 Windows, 2 mac
19:20 < jml2> socomm, lol well of course...
19:20 < jml2> socomm, except that they don't say a dam thing :)
19:20 < ||JD||> nostrora: I named the big one bitey
19:20 < jml2> "Use real words."
19:20 < jml2> "Use theme names."
19:20 < jml2> hahaha
19:20 < jml2> that's kindergardenish material there...
19:21 < pnbeast> nostrora, use the names of prominent criminals.  That will scare h4xx0rs who break into your network.
19:21 < jml2> and dont' use your birthdate for your "password"
19:21 < jml2> nostrora, definitely don't make your hostnames the same as your root password definitely.
19:21 < jml2> !
19:21 < pnbeast> Everyone knows the only good password is 123abc.  Always mix numbers and letters.
19:22 < nostrora> Why this hatred? I come to this community because as a sysadmin I know that here I can find talented people who may have encountered the same problem as me. Well named machines
19:22 < revel> No, it's *******
19:23 < jml2> nostrora, yeah, and I mentioned there are RFCs for that. socomm pointed one I've known about long ago. I find it very unhelpful text in any case.
19:23 < jml2> nostrora, syntax and IANA domain name suggestions for even your "home server"
19:23 < socomm> IRC is a replacement for search engines now?
19:23 < socomm> Guys my cat just swallowed a lego, what do?
19:24 < jml2> socomm, seriously?
19:24 < nostrora> socomm: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=IRC+is+a+replacement+for+search+engines+now%3F
19:24 < revel> socomm: Put it in a bag and drop it off a bridge.
19:24 < nostrora> socomm: wrong channel buddy
19:24 < sauvin> I know this guy who names his machines things like "gozilla" and "mothra" and the like.
19:24 < socomm> nostrora: Maybe you should follow your own advice.
19:25 < jml2> nostrora, maybe he means /bin/cat ... I'd say you're in the wrong channel lol
19:25 < jml2> nostrora, asking for a name is not even a linux question
19:25 < nostrora> I think so, yes.
19:25 < jml2> call your computer anything you want.. there's no special "standard" suggestion anywhere..
19:25 < revel> server1
19:25 < revel> gensokyo
19:25 < sauvin> I can't repeat what I call my machines because the channel has a language policy.
19:26 < irwiss> call it google.com for extra funsies
19:26 < revel> sauvin: Ah, they're in French?
19:26 < sauvin> revel, no, they're in English.
19:26 < revel> sauvin: "Pardon my French"
19:26 < sauvin> OK, yeah, they're in French. ;)
19:26 < socomm> nostrora: you are special
19:27 < jml2> socomm, feed him a lego he wants one
19:27 < jml2> socomm, he's a puppycat
19:27 < sauvin> nostrora, why the fascination with calling machine names?
19:27 < jml2> sauvin, because he's wants to learn good english :)
19:28 < sauvin> Won't learn it from ME, that's a fact.
19:28 < socomm> What color should my shed be? I plan to store old linux machines in it.
19:28 < nostrora> sauvin: cette même fascination du plaisir du travail bien fait propre, like an convention of programing naming variable etc. just to have an logical network naming between difference houses
19:28 < socomm> Heh, time for the ignore list.
19:29 < helmut> hi. can I somehow prevent 32bit executables from being run on an x86_64 without recompiliing the kernel?
19:29 < revel> helmut: Remove the 32-bit linker?
19:29 < jml2> helmut, yeah, there's an exclude option iirc for the kernel boot line for this
19:29 < sauvin> nostrora, what you're suggesting depends a great deal on local context. You're aware of that, right? I might have named machines in a manner to suggest their location or purpose.
19:29 < hexnewbie> helmut: What for, though?
19:29 < rendar> does modifing a file inside a directory changes directory's mtime? or is it changed only when a file is created inside that directory?
19:30 < jml2> helmut, there's still a number of things that are 32-bit... better not to... btw you're not improving security this way..
19:30 < helmut> revel: interesting approach. that should work indeed (as long as stuff doesn't link statically)
19:30 < nostrora> sauvin: sure i know it's arbitrary
19:30 < sauvin> As for "program naming variable", one of the reasons MY source code never makes it out into the wild is that my variable names might get me sent to the office.
19:30 < socomm> rendar: Try it.
19:30 < revel> Hmm, yeah, static linking is a thing. Could also possibly ship its own linker?
19:30 < nostrora> and I understood that there are no "rules" it was mostly to get a return from the IT professionals
19:30 < helmut> jml2: I'd prefer doing it in a namespace or something (i.e. without rebooting)
19:31 < rendar> socomm: apparently modifying a file modifies mtime, but in another dir i use for source code, with a git repository,  it doesn't
19:31 < jml2> helmut, I wonder what your objective is
19:31 < sauvin> We're not necessarily IT "professionals", you know. Some of us are admins, others are developers, yet others just Joe Sixpacks writing macros for their spreadsheets, some of us just use Linux for watching movies or porn.
19:31 < helmut> jml2, hexnewbie: it's not about security. it's about qa. verifying that cross builds work without running host binaries.
19:32 < socomm> sauvin: or porn movies
19:32 < revel> sauvin: And it's sometimes hard to tell who's what.
19:32 < sauvin> Don't go there. That LAST porn movie almost gave me vapour lock.
19:32 < helmut> I admit that cross building from amd64 to i386 may sound strange, but we'll be using i386 as a cross target soon and I don't have a ppc64el or arm64 box to perform the cross builds yet
19:32 < nostrora> sauvin: Yes, not necessarily professionals. asking the question I expected things other than trolls.
19:33 < sauvin> Dunno about "trolls", it just seemed kind of an odd question to be worried about.
19:33 < sauvin> Now... about what's taking up all the space on the machine I named "MegaBi***"...
19:33 < stevendale> I love you sauvin
19:34 < stevendale> o/
19:34 < rendar> unbeliveable, in a test directory with only 1 file, if i modify that file, dir's mtime changes, in my directory where i have source code + a git repository it doesn't, how come?
19:34 < nostrora> people who don't have answers may also not respond ^^ eternal debate. I understand the hazardous nature of my question
19:34 < nostrora> Thanks, i will imagine my own naming schema!
19:34 < sauvin> "Hazardous" is spending a shift on the assembly line with somebody who ate too many beans. Everything else pales by comparison.
19:37 < pnbeast> rendar, I'm not sure, but I'd guess you're not being very clear when you think about "modifying a file".  Change to some directory with a scratch file in it, stat the directory, then do something like: echo "x" >> <scratchfile>
19:37 < pnbeast> rendar, then stat the dir, again.  Does it change?
19:37 < rendar> uhm, nope
19:54 < innovate41> Hi!  Anyone seen this before? My nic shows both UP and DOWN in ``ip link`` ........ `` br0p0: <NO-CARRIER,BORADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state DOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000 ``
19:55 < stefanie_> ehy guys
19:56 < stefanie_> can i change the default directory to use when opening bash? i mean, when i open bash i automatically find it in /home/userdir, what if i want it to open in /mnt/somekindaofdevice
19:57 < lopid> put "cd /home/somekindaplace" at the end of your ~/.bashrc
19:57 < lopid> shit, that won't work. try /mnt/somekindaofdevice instead
19:57 < tds> if you want to change the user's actual home directory, you probably want to use usermod
19:58 < stefanie_> lpid thank you, i'll try it now
19:58 < stefanie_> tds: that sounds nice too
19:59 < hexnewbie> stefanie_: You can change directory for interactive non-login shells in ~/.bashrc, and for interactive login shells in ~/.bash_profile (which often sources ~/.bashrc). After you do it, tripple-check that your change doesn't interfere with non-interactive uses - a developer had made that change on a dev server, and *all* ssh remote commands and fish access were broken by a superfluous cd, even though the shell was not interactive
19:59 < RayTracer> innovate41: that's when you eg. "ip link set dev br0p0 up" but no physical link is there
20:00 < hexnewbie> stefanie_: In short, 1) put cd in ~/.bashrc, 2) if it doesn't work for logins, put in ~/.bash_profile, 3) check that it doesn't cause side-effects.
20:00 < turbo64> https://i.imgur.com/gXQpUWy.png
20:00 < turbo64> when i manually add a menu entry, it creates a duplicate submenu
20:01 < turbo64> how do i fix this
20:02 < socomm> turbo64: try asking in your distros channel. I'm guessing mint.
20:02 < turbo64> its fedora
20:02 < turbo64> and the distro doesnt have anything to do with it
20:02 < socomm> turbo64: Heh.
20:02 < turbo64> all distros use the same menu system
20:02 < socomm> Of course they do.
20:02 < azarus> maybe ask #gnome or something
20:03 < azarus> (irc.gnome.org, not freenode)
20:04 < revel> No #gnome here?
20:04 < turbo64> there is but nobody ever chats in there
20:04 < azarus> dunno, but it's not official
20:04 < Psi-Jack> There is, but the official channel is in their own network.
20:05 < azarus> ^
20:05 < azarus> silly gnome devs, always wanting to go their own way, never compromise :P
20:05 < Psi-Jack> But, that doesn't even look like gnome, instead looks like Cinnamon, specifically.
20:05 < hexnewbie> I suspect the whole internet is banned there, or a separate server does good enough job to keep anybody out?
20:05 < Psi-Jack> So, #gnome wouldn't be the right place to send him either.
20:05 < socomm> That menu doesn't look like stock gnome.
20:05 < Psi-Jack> socomm: Like I said... Looks Cinnamon.
20:06 < turbo64> Psi-Jack: its arc menu for gnome
20:06 < socomm> Psi-Jack: Yeah.
20:06 < justsomeguy> turbo64: Make sure you're not editing /boot/grub2/grub.cfg directly, but the files used to generate the menuentries in /etc/default/grub, instead.
20:06 < azarus> (i wouldn't know, haven't bothered with gnome, cinammon or the like for years)
20:06 < turbo64> doesnt matter either way, they both read from .local/share/applications and /usr/share/applications
20:06 < socomm> turbo64: heh .... so you are full of it when you said 'all distros use same menu system'
20:06 < innovate41> RayTracer:  Thank you very much for the reply. that is quite helpful.   In my case the device is there but i am still getting this outcome.
20:06 < Psi-Jack> Doesn't matter. Seems nobody /here/ can help you.
20:06 < turbo64> Psi-Jack: whats with the attitude
20:06 < socomm> turbo64: file a bug
20:07 < Psi-Jack> turbo64: What attitude? Same attitude you gave last night about your vulgarity?
20:07 < justsomeguy> turbo64: Just ignore me. I was confused.
20:07 < Psi-Jack> Gee...
20:07 < hexnewbie> What's the icon theme name? I want it.
20:07 < turbo64> if you have a real answer to my question im happy to hear it but if you're just going to talk shit i'm not interested
20:07 < socomm> turbo64: I think you got your answer.
20:08 < Psi-Jack> ^ That right there. Is why I won't help you.
20:08 < turbo64> lol dont act like you know the answer and you're keeping it a secret
20:09 < turbo64> fucking retard
20:09 < socomm> Another one for the ignore list.
20:09 < socomm> !mods
20:09 < Psi-Jack> socomm: It's ops. not mods.
20:09 < Psi-Jack> And it's got a nick and reason to.
20:09 < Psi-Jack> too*
20:09 < socomm> !ops turbo64 vulgarity and personal insults
20:09 < turbo64> i was perfectly polite to you and you start acting like a pissbaby for no reason
20:09 < Psi-Jack> Better. :)
20:10 < turbo64> douche
20:10 < socomm> Whoa!
20:10 < hexnewbie> turbo64: At least bring something positive by sharing what's your icon theme ;)
20:10 < Psi-Jack> turbo64: One question. At what point in time was I "acting like a pissbaby"?
20:11 < hexnewbie> Well, too bad. It was my kind of ugly :/
20:11 < Psi-Jack> heh
20:11 < Psi-Jack> Anyone else? Just curious, sincerely.
20:12 < revel> Anyone else what?
20:12 < debkad> revel: If I let youtube playing something and testing mplayer, mpv ...etc, I can hear both, the only problem is when trying to make that happen with crontab
20:12 < revel> debkad: Yeah, I had the same behaviour.
20:12 < debkad> ah
20:12 < Psi-Jack> revel: Regarding his  rather obtuse description of my behavior. :)
20:12 < debkad> so this a bug to crontab?
20:12 < revel> Even with --vo=pulse (though I think I have that set in some config somewhere regardless)
20:13 < revel> debkad: Well, there's various implementations of cron.
20:13 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, I'm the op who said the "racist" things that turbo64 mentioned.
20:13 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Oh?
20:13 < revel> I've got cronie.
20:13 < pnbeast> revel, we don't need to know about your personal affairs.
20:13 < snugger> What about racism? What's going on?
20:13 < snugger> *Sigh&
20:14 < revel> pnbeast: Eh? I'm talking with debkad.
20:14 < pnbeast> revel, it was a joke.
20:14  * sauvin notes that Saavik was correct in characterising human humour as "a difficult concept".
20:15 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Heh
20:16 < revel> Hmm. Anyone know of any C utilities with nice and simple source code I could use to study? I was thinking of checking the GNU coreutils, but, err, even true.c seemed to be a bit overblown.
20:16 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Got a sec for a quick PM?
20:16 < revel> Maybe Busybox?
20:16 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, of course not!
20:16 < Psi-Jack> How about 5 seconds? ;)
20:16 < sauvin> Eh, truthfully, I got a few HOURS.
20:16 < revel> "Your 1 second is over"
20:16 < Psi-Jack> hehe
20:16 < pnbeast> revel, one common bit of advice is to study the various BSDs' source.  It tends to be a lot cleaner than some other working sources.
20:17 < revel> Hmm, okay.
20:17 < sauvin> BSD source isn't quite so... um... "multitargeted".
20:19 < debkad> Psi-Jack: Didn't get your question "debkad: What are you using?"
20:21 < cryp2nomicon> hello
20:21 < pnbeast> I'd ban him just on general principle.
20:22 < sauvin> Who? What?
20:22 < pnbeast> That guy who just joined, said hello and parted.
20:23 < Psi-Jack> ##linux, the new rotating door.
20:23 < Psi-Jack> heh
20:23 < sauvin> I don't have general principles. What I'm stuck with are sergeant principles.
20:23 < Psi-Jack> debkad: What?
20:23 < pnbeast> I'd ban you for that kind of pun, too.
20:23 < BluesKaj> oh the types who think irc chats are thier personal blogs
20:24 < debkad> Psi-Jack: when I posted my problem with crontab you asked me that question but didn't understand it
20:24 < BluesKaj> their even
20:24 < NoirX> hello
20:24 < revel> debkad: What cron implementation do you have?
20:24 < Psi-Jack> debkad: What are you using, to play audio, via cron?
20:24 < NoirX> i cant ping my laptop from this server, any idea
20:24 < Psi-Jack> Not what cron implementation. Cron's the wrong tool for this, period.
20:24 < revel> Oh, that. mpv.
20:25 < debkad> revel: crontab
20:25 < debkad> Psi-Jack: mpv or mplayer
20:25 < debkad> ah
20:25 < revel> I think most cron implementations (there are multiple) have crontab...
20:25 < sauvin> I've never had a distro where there was a cron but no crontab.
20:25 < pnbeast> NoirX, fix your b0rken firewall rules?  Fix your switch/router software?  Show us your actual network layout, so we can make a sane guess?
20:26 < stevendale> OwO
20:26 < qnord> hello everyone i am on slackware and i am using xterm and xterm sends ^H whenever i press backspace inside a program, but for some reason it works on other programs like the python interpreter, but not ed?
20:26 < stevendale> I love you pnbeast
20:26 < Psi-Jack> debkad: To.. play... audio?
20:26 < dongcarl> Wondering how to compare a dd'd disk-image with a block device to make sure my dd was flawless?
20:26 < debkad> Psi-Jack: yes, It is kind of a reminder
20:26 < Psi-Jack> debkad: What audio format is it?
20:26 < revel> qnord: Do you have an incorrect TERM set for some reason?
20:27 < debkad> Psi-Jack: mp3 but I can use ogg
20:27 < pnbeast> dongcarl, run one of the many checksum programs on both of them?  sha256sum?
20:27 < qnord> revel: no, the TERM variable is set to xterm
20:27 < dongcarl> pnbeast: would cmp work?
20:27 < revel> dongcarl: md5sum?
20:27 < pnbeast> dongcarl, maybe.  Try it.
20:28 < triceratux> qnord: you may have to put something in your ~/.Xresources that makes xterm tolerate that keycode
20:28 < Psi-Jack> debkad: Install libsox-fmt-mp3, use "play something.mp3", but don't use cron. PulseAudio is userspace and session-oriented. Use a user systemd timer unit to do so, or an X task scheduler of some kind.
20:28 < sauvin> I forget what that's called, but some terms don't automatically map ^H to "destructive backspace".
20:28 < Psi-Jack> systemctl --user  specifically works with user-space systemd units.
20:28 < qnord> triceratux: yes, i have put xterm.vt100.backarrowKey: false and xterm.ttyModes: erase ^?
20:29 < qnord> didnt seem to help
20:29 < debkad> Psi-Jack: thank you, didn't know about that
20:29 < Psi-Jack> debkad: "play" is from "sox" just in case that is not installed or doesn't get included by the libsox-fmt-mp3
20:29 < sauvin> Wait... grumpy old man is confused old man. Why are we cronning players?
20:30 < debkad> Psi-Jack: yeah, I think sox is for wav and that pluging you show to me to implement mp3 ?
20:30 < triceratux> qnord: did you xrdb -merge it after updating it ?
20:30 < Psi-Jack> yep
20:30 < debkad> thanks
20:30 < Psi-Jack> There's one for ogg too, libsox-fmt-ogg IIRC?
20:31 < Psi-Jack> I do a lot of sox lately at work. Asterisk + sox == Functional phone-based intercom system networked and replayed. :)
20:31 < stevendale> I love you Psi-Jack
20:31 < Psi-Jack> I'm married.
20:31 < sauvin> My sympathies for your spouse.
20:31  * sauvin hides
20:31 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, she needs it sometimes. :)
20:32 < qnord> oh i forgot to do that triceratux thank you it seems to work now
20:32 < Psi-Jack> I mean. She is Japanese. Seems to think that men should go to work, work, come home, work more, and never rest until, well, sleep apparently. ;)
20:33 < triceratux> qnord: np. linux is all about the x11 ;)
20:36 < cart_man> What is the best serial communication program for a CMD system in linux?
20:36 < Psi-Jack> screen
20:36 < sauvin> What's a CMD systeM?
20:36 < sauvin> (hate this keyboard!)
20:37 < cart_man> commandline and no UI
20:37 < stevendale> Windows
20:37 < pnbeast> I love my keyboard, but I'm also curious about what a CMD system is.  Oh.  A shell *is* a UI.  Maybe you mean no GUI?
20:37 < cart_man> stevendale, That for me?
20:37 < Psi-Jack> cart_man: I use screen most times to communicate with serial devices, such as blackbox, etc
20:37 < sauvin> OK, and to what kinds of devices do you want serial communication?
20:37 < cart_man> Psi-Jack, Oh yes my bad I meant a GUI yes
20:38 < Psi-Jack> What?
20:38 < cart_man> sauvin, I have a HAT on a raspberry PI
20:38 < Psi-Jack> A what?
20:38 < sauvin> And not a HUT or a Chapeau or a sombrero?
20:38 < cart_man> Psi-Jack, Ugh soz I made a mess of this ... The GUI message was meant for pnbeast `
20:38 < Psi-Jack> "soz?"
20:39 < cart_man> Psi-Jack, Hmmm yea .. you dont know soz?
20:39 < pnbeast> This is beautiful, I'm just sitting here in a nice chair watching it all unfold like an explosion.
20:39 < sauvin> cart_man, the word "soz" isn't part of my vocabulary in any of four human languages.
20:39 < Psi-Jack> -bash: soz: command not found
20:40 < cart_man> sauvin, Yea the more you kow
20:40 < cart_man> know`
20:42 < Psi-Jack> So, what's a "HAT?"
20:42 < djph> Psi-Jack: a thing you put on your head... in caps?
20:43 < pnbeast> There's jimmie hats, too.
20:50 < Azrael_-> hi
20:50 < suttin> hello
20:52 < Azrael_-> where is this code meant to work? https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/sameo/nfc-next.git/ i don't really know what/where it is used for
20:53 < sauvin> Looks like it's a driver, or part of one.
20:56 < Azrael_-> ok, i try to build my own kernel and apply these patches: https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wireless/msg160914.html and https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wireless/msg160806.html one was already applied into the nfc-next repo. thought i could just use it. but i'll probably try it first without it
20:59 < frank604> anyone with egnyte experience?
21:00 < Psi-Jack> Ask better questions.
21:00 < frank604> trying to setup static ip on an egnyte server, documentation says it can be configured with systemd but no systemd when i log in
21:01 < Psi-Jack> Perhaps contact their support.
21:02 < frank604> unfortunately, this is an EOL as of last month so no support.  was hoping to find people with egnyte experience to verify some of my understanding
21:03 < Psi-Jack> Well, it's a commercial product. Very. Specific. Very obscure. Not quite so likely.
21:08 < jim> is there something specific you need on that egnyte machine?
21:09 < jim> (what if you were to install something else on it, maybe by adding a drive and then installing something else?
21:09 < jim> )
21:18 < frank604> Psi-Jack: understood
21:41 < Psi-Jack> xEggo[TBL]: TBL?
21:41 < xEggo[TBL]> i think you asked this already once lol
21:41 < xEggo[TBL]> it's for another channel
21:41 < xEggo[TBL]> i'm leaving #linux :-P
21:42 < Psi-Jack> "status" nicks. Tampa Bay somethings.
21:43 < BluesKaj> Lightning
21:44 < Psi-Jack> Heh obviously not a sports person. :)
21:44 < BluesKaj> it's ahockey team
21:44 < rascul> florida isn't cold enough for hockeyu
21:44 < BluesKaj> the arenas are
21:44 < sauvin> The only "sports" I understand are the kind I can't discuss in this channel because of the language policy.
21:45 < BluesKaj> Arizona, Las Vegas etc all have teams
21:45 < rascul> and texas
21:46 < rascul> can't do anything without dragging texas along
21:46 < justsomeguy> Hockey is surprisingly popular here in Florida. I guess because it's an excuse to go visit a cool ice rink in hot weather.
21:46 < yuken> Odd, my crontab isn't working. "* * * * * 7z a /var/www/html/yuken/backups/$(date +%d_%m_%y_%H:%M:%S).7z /home/yuken/EraZ"
21:47 < yuken> Command exectues fine if I do it manually, but I did * * * * * to make sure it's supposed to go every minute, just to make surer it works, and it doesn't.
21:47 < yuken> Any ideas where I should start?
21:47 < BluesKaj> lotsa Canadian "snow birds" in Fla
21:47 < Psi-Jack> yuken: You want to run a cron every minute of every day?
21:47 < yuken> Psi-Jack, nope, just did that to test. Normally it's every 6 hours, but that wasn't working
21:47 < yuken> (which was 0 0,6,12,18 * * *)
21:48 < sauvin> You want that script to run as what user?
21:48 < Psi-Jack> yuken: I'd actually make a recommendation, borgbackup. Keep versions with deduplication and compression.
21:48 < yuken> sauvin, my user, yuken, which has permissions to read & write to that directory
21:48 < Psi-Jack> yuken: Also, this in a user crontab, or /etc/cron*?
21:48 < yuken> crontab, Psi-Jack
21:48 < sauvin> How did you make that crontab entry?
21:48 < yuken> crontab -e
21:48 < Psi-Jack> is crond running?
21:49 < yuken> Hm.
21:49 < yuken> /usr/sbin/cron -f is running, but no crond.
21:49 < Psi-Jack> Ahh that's fine.
21:49 < justsomeguy> Will command substitution work when called from cron like that?
21:49 < Psi-Jack> Anything in logs?
21:49 < yuken> Not sure where I'd check logs for this.
21:49 < lukey_> yuken: What is journalctl giving you?
21:49 < Psi-Jack> justsomeguy: Goooood question.
21:50 < sauvin> justsomeguy, I have no clue, and for that very reason I think I'd recommend to yuken to shovel it into a bash script with an explicit shebang line.
21:50 < Psi-Jack> yuken: What distro?
21:50 < yuken> justsomeguy, I've done it before, on a different system.
21:50 < justsomeguy> sauvin: Yes, that was my next suggestion.
21:50 < Psi-Jack> yuken: But still. borgbackup. Look into it later. :)
21:50 < yuken> Ubuntu, Psi-Jack.
21:50 < Psi-Jack> yuken: Okay. Version?
21:50 < yuken> Lemme check.
21:50 < yuken> 16.04.4.
21:51 < Psi-Jack> OKay. A version with systemd.
21:51 < Psi-Jack> Instead of a cron job, I would also recommend the use of systemd.timers.
21:51 < jml2> justsomeguy, canada here has the most hockey rinks per area.. here there's a hockey rink every couple kilometers... (west island of montreal)
21:51 < yuken> Never touched systemd other than enable/disable/restart stuff. Where would I begin with that?
21:51 < Psi-Jack> But, logs. /var/log/cron*
21:51 < jml2> justsomeguy, :)
21:52 < jml2> justsomeguy, 2 hockey arenas near me...
21:52 < yuken> hm
21:52 < Psi-Jack> yuken: systemctl list-timers, for example. And google, systemd timer, you'll see documentation on it. :)
21:52 < jml2> justsomeguy, haven't skates in years though, I used to play hockey when I was a lot younger
21:52 < yuken> Psi-Jack, it appears to be not doing the whole command substitution. "(yuken) CMD (7z a /var/www/html/yuken/backups/$(date +)"
21:52 < yuken> and then it ends
21:52 < sauvin> I'm very much afraid that when it comes to systemd, that's about where I'm at: "Hey, GOOGLE man!"
21:52 < Psi-Jack> yuken: Yeah, that's why it's failing.
21:53 < yuken> so I can either shove it into a bash script I guess and/or use systemd stuff.
21:53 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Hey Siri! Echo!
21:53 < sauvin> Or both. :D
21:53 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, huh?
21:53 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Voice-activated device. :)
21:53 < Psi-Jack> +s
21:54 < justsomeguy> I wonder if you can just do "bash -c <the rest of your cron command one-liner goes here>"
21:54 < sauvin> Oh. I wouldn't know about those. My smart phone is just a texting device for a reason.
21:54 < yuken> I should prepend #!/bin/bash (assuming that's where bash/my shell that I want to use) is, right?
21:54 < yuken> I just forget if that's the right format lol
21:54 < jml2> yuken, yeah it's always #!
21:54 < jml2> yuken, has to be the first line
21:54 < sauvin> yuken, that's what I meant by "explicit shebang line", yes. Different distros may use different default shells.
21:55  * justsomeguy likes to use #!/usr/bin/env bash as a shebang for that reason.
21:55 < Psi-Jack> yuken: In a separate file, shebang #!/bin/bash
21:55 < jml2> yuken, since it is to be called from cron, it would be better to use -> #!/usr/bin/env /bin/bash
21:56 < Psi-Jack> It would make no difference.
21:56 < Psi-Jack> Not better, not worse. Literally no difference.
21:56 < jml2> Psi-Jack, would.
21:56 < sauvin> Might make a difference on a *nix where she no bang...
21:56 < BCMM> justsomeguy: ... for which reason? different default shells?
21:56 < Psi-Jack> He's using Ubuntu. :)
21:56 < yuken> woo
21:56 < yuken> got a timer running
21:56 < BCMM> justsomeguy: on sane linux distros, /bin/bash is always bash (unless bash is not installed)
21:57 < Psi-Jack> yuken: Now, borgbackup. Compression, deduplication, multiple versions, mountable, encryptable.
21:57 < Psi-Jack> :)
21:57 < jml2> i've never been succesful with #!/bin/bash when called from cron but using env it's made me a difference
21:57 < yuken> now, I wait 6 hours.
21:57 < BCMM> #!/usr/bin/env bash is good for bizarre commercial unix where somebody has had to install bash in a location other than /bin/
21:57 < yuken> nah Psi-Jack, I don't need anything fancy. In fact, the password I use for this is in plaintext in a shell file because I don't care about it
21:57 < Psi-Jack> You've got 6 hours to implement. :)
21:57 < jml2> yuken, or 6 months!
21:57 < lukey_> And AFAIK you can count on /bin/sh on *any* *nix because exec() uses that
21:57 < yuken> ofc, it's a password I use nowhere else with no resemblance to anything else, just to share some  game files with the owner of this game
21:57 < yuken> who doesn't want them being accessible by everyone.
21:57 < Psi-Jack> "of course" not "ofc"
21:57 < justsomeguy> BCMM: Really, it's not something for yuken to worry about. I just prefer that shebang since I transfer some of my crontab scripts between a linux and freebsd server.
21:58 < BCMM> justsomeguy: huh, where does freebsd put bash?
21:58 < yuken> ah yeah, that actually makes sense, justsomeguy.
21:58 < stevie> hi
21:58 < Psi-Jack> BCMM: /usr/local/bin/bash
21:58 < alive876> hi guys, can I and how do i change the install directory using gdebi? I want to install to en external ssd  thanks
21:58 < justsomeguy> Somewhere weird, BCMM
21:58 < stevie> how can I temporarily spoof my ip in a single terminal session?
21:58 < Psi-Jack> stevie: Why do you ask such an odd question so openly?
21:58 < stevie> I'm working with sockets and I believe my socket wont broadcast because both terminals have the same IP according to the server
21:58 < jml2> stevie, apt-get install moo
21:58 < BCMM> Psi-Jack: huh, interesting. is everything that isn't an actual component of BSD a /usr/local thing, then?
21:59 < Psi-Jack> BCMM: Yep, generally.
21:59 < Psi-Jack> BCMM: You should see the split init. /etc/rc*, /usr/local/etc/rc*
21:59 < justsomeguy> FreeNAS is even weirder.
21:59 < Psi-Jack> It's rather naaaasty. ;)
22:00 < Psi-Jack> Imagine how systemd could finally solve FreeBSD's init. :)
22:00 < BCMM> stevie: it's impossible to "spoof" your IP for most purposes - most network protocols involve some sort of bidirectional communication, and packets ain't getting back to you unless the server knows your real address
22:00 < BCMM> stevie: so, what specifically are you trying to achieve?
22:00 < Psi-Jack> stevie: "spoofing" is never the answer.
22:00 < tds> BCMM: and hopefully even harder once more people implement bcp38 :)
22:00 < stevie> from what I understand, each connection is being treated on an IP by IP basis. so broadcast will actually exclude the sender - this is intended and I don't want to remove that
22:01 < jml2> stevie, I heard if you paint your front door pink it will prevent people from breaking into your home
22:01 < stevie> but the issue is I cannot try a 3 client scenario from the same computer
22:01 < Psi-Jack> stevie: Virtual Machines
22:01 < Psi-Jack> So, yes... Yes you can.
22:01 < stevie> Psi-Jack: but then I have to install it
22:01 < stevie> Psi-Jack: lol
22:01 < Psi-Jack> Get to work! :)
22:02 < BCMM> stevie: a single network interface can legitimately have more than one ip address
22:02 < Psi-Jack> Also true.
22:02 < lukey_> stevie: VM, LXC, firejail, ifconfig eth0:1 <another ip>
22:02 < jml2> yuken, so how's that yucking ? let me guess it did not XD
22:02 < Psi-Jack> :X ip aliasing is long obsoleted.
22:02 < yuken> jml2, wot
22:02 < BCMM> vm might well be waaay overkill for this task (although we still don't *really* know what this task is)
22:03 < sauvin> It might be "way overkill", but it's also dead simple.
22:03 < BCMM> sauvin: i disagree
22:03  * Psi-Jack finds simple and kills him.
22:03 < jml2> yuken, funny that others never do this and claim of something they're not sure of.  Here I know on systems I use using #!/usr/bin/env /bin/bash is a typical must..
22:03 < BCMM> sauvin: setting up a VM, with usermode nat, is dead simple
22:03 < jml2> yuken, I wonder if that script would actually fire properly..
22:03 < sauvin> That's what I was saying.
22:03 < BCMM> sauvin: setting up the VM to have a real, routable IP address can be slightly involved
22:04 < Psi-Jack> BCMM: libvirtd-bin, virt-manager, virt-viewer, install distro, clone, clone, clone,
22:04 < Psi-Jack> Dead simple.
22:04 < yuken> jml2, it does, yeah. This is Ubuntu.
22:04 < sauvin> If an idiot like me can do it, ANYBODY can.
22:04 < jml2> i dont even need libvirt.. i use the qemu-bin directly..
22:04 < jml2> (Bash scripts :)
22:05 < Psi-Jack> jml2: Well, ain't you fancilly in the stone age?
22:05 < lukey_> lxc-create -n test -t download should take around 10 seconds with an proper internet connection
22:05 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, OC15 speed internet.
22:05 < jml2> Psi-Jack, there's qemu params that libvirt doesn't yet handle, so I resort it to this way..
22:05 < jml2> Psi-Jack, I still get a control monitor socket that I can use with netcat :p (or unix-term)
22:05 < Psi-Jack> A small few...
22:06 < jml2> and issue "system_powerdown" from there (acpi)
22:06 < tds> does libvirt not let you set custom parameters for qemu?
22:06 < jml2> no it's the full environment that is accessible..
22:06 < tds> even if it doesn't have to understand them
22:06 < Psi-Jack> tds: It does actually.
22:06 < yuken> hm, on FreeBSD my bash is in /usr/local/bin/bash rather than /usr/bin/bash
22:06 < jml2> everything libvirt has access to I have access to.. but it's more nifty..
22:07 < Psi-Jack> yuken: I said that already.
22:07 < jml2> tds, yeah but even that is limitted
22:07 < jml2> tds, I looked into that..
22:09 < sauvin> yuken, yeah, can't remember what freebsd uses by default, but i think it's csh..?
22:09 < jml2> tds, and there's param/combinations libvirt will nevet support anyways.. and I was already using such combinations so there's no point ...
22:09 < yuken> sauvin, csh or zsh iirc. I'm running NAS4Free with has bash by default
22:09 < jml2> tds, (but they're sane comibinations and permissible)
22:09 < Psi-Jack> csh by default.
22:09 < Psi-Jack> zsh is in ports
22:10 < jml2> however libvirt is still pretty good
22:10 < tds> hmm, that sounds like the kind of situation where you should submit a patch to libvirt, rather than using old bash scripts ;)
22:10 < jml2> (virtsh more speaking)
22:10 < Psi-Jack> Or better, what specifically doesn't libvirt do that you specifically absolutely need?
22:10 < Psi-Jack> You're an edge case, so far. :)
22:10 < sauvin> Hey, if these are scripts he wrote, and they work for him, he wins. Worse, when new crap pops up, he can deal with it NOW rather than waiting for somebody to get patches pushed through - if ever.
22:11 < jml2> it's also easier to use virtsh, I would suggest people to use that than what I'm using XD lol
22:11 < jml2> but I'm a gifted bastards.. can't help it..
22:12 < jml2> Psi-Jack, you dare to see my qemu command things?
22:12 < Psi-Jack> Will my eyes pop out of my skull, dance around singing "Hey Nanny Nanny?"
22:13 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, back in a few. Got a sick dog to check up on.
22:14 < jml2> I like minimalism.. https://pastebin.com/b66m5YKu
22:14 < jml2> you can omit the kernel param things...
22:14 < jml2> I manually create my macvtap bindings--- "manually" XD
22:14 < jml2> lol
22:14 < jml2> (scripted too of course)
22:15 < jml2> that's a non-public vm.. it needs an update
22:15 < jml2> it doesn't use grub for booting, the kernel is specified directly with the qemu command
22:15 < tds> ipv6.disable=1 :(
22:15 < jml2> it's one of my practice machines..
22:15 < rosa> I need help with terminal codes
22:16 < rosa> How do i get the cursor to go to the start of h? As it goes to the end instead https://paste.pound-python.org/show/Rw6OyNSIR7hTWYknGIBf/
22:16 < jml2> mount --bind against a vm disk in read-only, and run "aide" against that from the "host" <<<
22:16 < jml2> lol
22:17 < jml2> keep an IDS checksum snapshot outside the vm... (schedule aide from cron in that particular case)
22:17 < sauvin> What is "start of h"?
22:17 < Psi-Jack> Minimalism with malvertising pastebin.com.
22:17 < jml2> a special "mount --bind" (with no journal playback <<<< is extremely important)
22:17 < jml2> nm on this..
22:18 < jml2> it's dangerous if used incorrectly..
22:18 < jml2> but it's very stealth and robust..
22:19 < rosa> it is the start of h
22:19 < jml2> you should see my snort VM... it's much longer.. has like 12 virtual nics to it..
22:19 < jml2> lol
22:19 < rosa> aka 0,0
22:20 < rosa> depending if it was the very first thing u printed to the terminal
22:20 < phogg> rosa: why not just use curses?
22:20 < rosa> (Or just the start of the current row)
22:20 < jml2> I have a fail2ban and pmacct << implemented being channeled with the help of openvswitch's netflow
22:21 < jml2> openvswitch has a nice built-in feature to do something netflow -- one can use this with a NIDS ...
22:21 < sauvin> rosa, you're aware that what you're talking about may vary by terminal type?
22:21 < phogg> 3, 2, 1 "there's more than one type?"
22:21 < phogg> who are we kidding; all the world's xterm, right?
22:22 < sauvin> No clue what my Konsoles use.
22:22 < irwiss> anyone running gitlab self hosted? wonder if it's viable for personal projects on micro vps'es or it's just always as slow as the public hosted
22:22 < sauvin> rosa,  play with these: https://www.csie.ntu.edu.tw/~r92094/c++/VT100.html
22:22 < rosa> Because i am not using a linux distro but does support terminal escape codes
22:23 < phogg> irwiss: I'm not, but only because setup was sufficiently annoying that I went with gitbucket instead.
22:23 < rosa> i cant even compile a .so
22:23 < jml2> Psi-Jack, "cat con "#!/bin/sh ; unixterm vm0.socket" << is what I use instead of virtsh :)
22:23 < jml2> Psi-Jack, typing "help" there gives me access to all the equiv and similar commands one can use with virtsh...
22:23 < phogg> rosa: ah, now that's a *good* reason for some hacking!
22:24 < rosa> it compiles into .bc and .ll
22:24 < jml2> from there I can do "system_powerdown" even if i have no ssh access to the vm, ... this is equiv to virtsh's acpi shutdown of a vm..
22:24 < rosa> And i do not have make or cmake either
22:25 < sauvin> What are "bc" and "ll" and what ARE you using?
22:25 < rosa> Mobile C
22:25 < sauvin> On what?
22:25 < rosa> Ios
22:25 < sauvin> !@#$@#%@#$
22:25 < jml2> bc is the command-line calculator-- can be used in scripts where decimal arithmetic is needed
22:25 < sauvin> Bruddah, you are in the WRONG channel.
22:26 < jml2> bash only does integer arithmetic.
22:26 < phogg> jml2: pretty sure that's not what a .dc file is
22:26 < phogg> er, .bc*
22:26 < phogg> got calculators on the brain
22:26 < jml2> :)
22:26 < irwiss> phogg: seems their demo app is dead, thanks i'll check it later, does it also have something similar to runners/automated builds?\
22:26 < rosa> So far it seem like it is half linux but not fully linux
22:26  * sauvin <heart> the hp48 emulator app on his phone
22:27 < sauvin> IOS ain't even remotely Linux.
22:27 < phogg> irwiss: it has a "hooks" system that lacks anything like documentation. If you're looking for build automation you'll need to bring your own separate component.
22:27 < stevendale> Lubuntu is so much easier to use than Debian LXDE
22:27 < rosa> As i do hv these headers available and others https://i.imgur.com/womSvSz.jpg
22:28 < phogg> stevendale: I'll alert the media
22:28 < rosa> But not ALL headers are available
22:28 < rosa> I also have pthreads
22:28 < irwiss> ah fair enough... i guess can't be worse than triggering builds from post-receive hook
22:28 < phogg> irwiss: it's pretty much exactly that
22:29 < sauvin> What's "hv"?
22:29 < phogg> irwiss: still, you can't beat the setup: exec the .war. DONE.
22:29 < rosa>  Have*
22:30 < sauvin> Gonna learn some English anytime soon, rosa?
22:30 < phogg> sauvin: maybe he's on a phone with limited typing options
22:30 < phogg> and no autocomplete
22:30 < rosa> Probs not lol, text replacement helps
22:31 < sauvin> "Probs"?
22:31 < rosa> Lol
22:31 < tds> irwiss: I ran gitlab previously and found it rather resource heavy and too complex for what I wanted - I run gitea at the moment which seems much nicer and lightweight
22:31 < rosa> Probably*
22:31 < stevendale> In my opinion JFS is the greatest filesystem ever greated by lady, since it uses less CPU than any of the exts
22:31 < tds> I'm not sure how good hook support is, though
22:31 < sauvin> rosa, you WILL learn to use fully qualified English or you WILL wind up on some other channel for a YEAR.
22:32 < hanshenrik> sauvin, what, all that for saying "Lol" instead of "lol" ?
22:32 < rosa> Ok
22:32 < Psi-Jack> jml2: yes, but what do you actually DO that libvirtd can't?
22:32 < Psi-Jack> jml2: That part you have not specifically detailed.
22:32 < sauvin> hanshenrik, no, I'm afraid "lol" has been around for at least 35 years.
22:33 < jml2> Psi-Jack, it has limitations in place holding some of my cpu flags and other things for storage .. even with virtsh's args support
22:33 < Psi-Jack> And, hmm... Might be taking a little doggy to the vet tomorrow. :/
22:33 < Psi-Jack> Vague generalizations, still.
22:33 < jml2> Psi-Jack, there can be arbitrary params given to qemu, but "placeholders" that virtsh would use would be restrictivie..
22:34 < rosa> Anyway How do i get the cursor to go to the start of h? As it goes to the end instead https://paste.pound-python.org/show/Rw6OyNSIR7hTWYknGIBf/
22:34 < hanshenrik> Psi-Jack, what's up with doggy?
22:34 < jml2> Psi-Jack, you don't know virtsh/libvirt supports an arbitrary args param :)
22:34 < jml2> Psi-Jack, (and that is limitted :)
22:34 < Psi-Jack> hanshenrik: Throwing up thick yellow bile, slightly spotted with fresh blood. Won't eat, even refused a treat.
22:35 < Psi-Jack> He's drinking though.
22:35 < jml2> (it would trim out due to its -cpu placeholders)
22:35 < sauvin> rosa, did you see the page of VT100 escape codes I pasted?
22:35 < jml2> infocmp<enter> :p
22:35 < irwiss> tds: gitea also looks really neat thanks, too bad there's no common format for issues/wikis etc so you get locked in :(
22:36 < phogg> irwiss: yes, I found that quite irritating as well
22:36 < phogg> irwiss: I get why though... you don't want to be feature locked to the lowest common denominator.
22:37 < jml2> Psi-Jack, you obviously don't know? lol virtsh uses qemu as a back-end..
22:37 < sauvin> Know what, I'm not seeing it right away myself. I could have sworn VT100 had a "move to beginning of line" escape.
22:37 < jml2> Psi-Jack, feed your dog! :)
22:37 < Psi-Jack> D'uh.
22:37 < phogg> irwiss: fortunately it's easy to host all that stuff outside the integrated tool. That's what I do. Just about the only things that really needs to be inside seem to be code review tools.
22:38 < jml2> i'm working on my #wordpress things... exciting
22:39 < jml2> some noob asked about mysql and postgresql.. bleh..  go mariadb
22:39 < jml2> so I tell them.. ignoramuses!
22:39 < tds> phogg/irwiss: iirc both github and gitea just have git repos with markdown files for wikis, I can't remember how gitlab does it though
22:39 < sauvin> I like PostgreSQL over MariaDB, and I like MariaDB *far* over MySQL.
22:40 < rosa> Yes
22:40 < jml2> the wp devs test with mysql and mariadb, and not as much with postgresql..  postgresql has been advanced for ages..
22:40 < zapotah> are there still no other ORDBMS than postgresql?
22:40 < sauvin> Rosa, in any event, you *may* be better off asking in a Macintosh channel, because that's what IOS is: Apple.
22:40 < jml2> i've actually used it on prior occassions..
22:41 < jml2> zapotah, i'm interested into graph-node databasing... that's my next project..
22:41 < sauvin> (kindly note that isn't me saying "get lost", that's me saying "don't know a goddamn thing about IOS except that it's different")
22:41 < zapotah> jml2: sounds icky
22:41 < jml2> zapotah, couchdb comes to mind..
22:42 < zapotah> my beef with postgresql is that the damn thing cant be clustered to save its life
22:42 < qman__> Most new db tech is aimed at multimaster or otherwise true active/active design
22:42  * justsomeguy is dreading having to learn SQL soon.
22:42 < jml2> zapotah, couchdb looks feasible for my plans, but i need something else along side it -- i lost track of that other one I need..
22:42 < irwiss> meh last i chexked maria/mysql still has insane bugs like ignoring CHECK constraint on columns and not raising a stink about the clauses
22:43 < jml2> zapotah, mysql/mariadb can also be clustered..
22:43 < sauvin> I don't know anything about "clustering", and so can't comment. I'm using Pg on a single machine, and love it.
22:43 < qman__> I'm a fan of cockroachdb's design
22:43 < sauvin> justsomeguy, SQL is easy enough.
22:43 < zapotah> qman__: yeah, unfortunately none of it can be called even alpha
22:43 < irwiss> i mean bugs according to me, its apparently by design for them
22:43 < jml2> sauvin, sql is easy, but optimizing a database machine is very demanding..
22:43 < phogg> If you need an RDBMS and have not existing dependency concerns you want PostgresSQL, period. Don't even consider that mysql/mariadb crap.
22:43 < jon-mac> when you need to cluster isnt that when you break out the lube and go talk to oracle?
22:43 < jml2> sauvin, one is user, the other is 3+ roles for companies to enlist
22:44 < jml2> phogg, tehehee
22:44 < zapotah> jml2: yeah but mariadb isnt ORDBMS
22:44 < jml2> zapotah, ok
22:44 < stevendale> OwO
22:44 < stevendale> What's this?!
22:44 < jml2> zapotah, but why make comparisons?
22:44 < phogg> I also suggest that if you don't *know* you need an RDBMS you probably actually want some *other* kind of database.
22:45 < jml2> zapotah, each db has its won wins and disadvantages
22:45 < sauvin> I wouldn't say "probably", but it is most definitely a possibility.
22:45 < phogg> Remember, Database != SQL and relational.
22:45 < stevendale> My cat runs away when I shout "RAWRRRR!!!"
22:45 < zapotah> jml2: theres certain kinds of applications that are designed around the database type
22:45 < jml2> phogg, uh sure.. who's saying SQL is databasing?  SQL is a query standard..
22:45 < phogg> sauvin: most application authors wanting to store data in a database should RUN not walk away from relational DBs.
22:45 < sauvin> Yup. My first real databasing was a bunch of tied hashes in perl.
22:45 < jml2> zapotah, good thinking..
22:45 < irwiss> mongodb which is supposedly nosql non-relational still uses postgresql as backend, just saying ;)
22:45 < phogg> jml2: naive people who don't know what to ask for
22:45 < jml2> zapotah, who's talking about about X application?
22:45 < sauvin> jml2, show me something that's SQL that ain't also DB.
22:46 < zapotah> jml2: im not :3
22:46 < phogg> sauvin: sqlite
22:46 < jml2> phogg, you mean you should be telling sauvin XD
22:46 < sauvin> sqlite is DB.
22:46 < qman__> sauvin: Labtech scripting
22:46 < sauvin> Wtf is labtech?
22:46 < phogg> sauvin: Depends on your point of view.
22:47 < jml2> phogg, and Psi-Jack  XD
22:47  * jml2 ducks XD
22:47 < zapotah> jml2: im just ranting that mssql and postgresql are still the only object relational databases in existence with any real penetration in sw
22:47 < qman__> It's a remote management/monitoring/etc tool popular with MSPs
22:47 < jml2> mssql or mysql?
22:47 < jml2> oh oh
22:47 < phogg> zapotah: Technically you can do that with Oracle, too.
22:47 < zapotah> mssql does clustering but its MS so... :3
22:47 < jml2> yeah sure there's a market for everything, web applications would be over-demanding on simple database engines..
22:48 < jml2> in comparison to enterprise ones..
22:48 < zapotah> phogg: yeah, but who cares about oracle :D
22:48 < qman__> Labtech's backend is mysql, and for some reason they decided that the scripts should be sql queries
22:48 < zapotah> phogg: they will screw you sideways and expect you to enjoy it :D
22:48 < phogg> zapotah: just saying, they have penetration and support lots of things... you'd still have to be crazy to *choose* it
22:48 < zapotah> yeah
22:49 < zapotah> but _nothing_ recent uses it
22:49 < zapotah> for good reason :D
22:49 < phogg> zapotah: If only you were right about that.
22:49 < Lymia> My only experience with Oracle is my mom saying very rude things about it. :D
22:49 < zapotah> well, nothing id consider for anything :D
22:49 < phogg> Lymia: that's normal for Oracle
22:50 < zapotah> i know theres bs out there
22:50 < phogg> "We could help you, but we won't. Say, did you want to hire a consultant?"
22:50 < zapotah> ^
22:50 < jml2> any of you work with databases as "db admins" ?
22:51 < phogg> jml2: only when they twist my arm
22:51 < zapotah> "documentation? say, did you want to hire a consultant?"
22:51 < sauvin> I've seen stuff around on the web that suggest that Oracle might be cat's meow, but it's a DIFFICULT meow, and that lots of folk feel it's a much better cost/benefit consideration to use something ELSE.
22:51 < jml2> oracle is king of database applications..
22:51 < zapotah> jml2: if i really really have to
22:51 < phogg> zapotah: Ever seen behind the corporate wall at the *real* oracle docs? They do exist and if you know who to pay and swear their oath you too can get real information about how to make things work.
22:52 < jml2> and CMS systems as well.. they're centennial years away from anything publicly available that we call "Free and open source" XD
22:52 < zapotah> phogg: i know
22:52 < jml2> rather "ahead" of the game :))
22:52 < phogg> zapotah: I've never been there, but someone illicitly sent me some pages. Good stuff.
22:52 < zapotah> hehe
22:53 < zapotah> they make you sign fucking ndas :D
22:53 < sauvin> zapotah, mind the language.
22:53 < phogg> sauvin: It's not so much *difficult* as *wrongheaded*, *backwards* and *belligerent*. The software does nothing to make your life easier or better and they don't *want* it to be easier because then no one would pay the consulting fees.
22:54 < sauvin> I remain unconvinced that it's not a good idea to use something else.
22:54 < phogg> sauvin: Example: identifiers are limited to 30 characters. Why? No one knows, because COBOL I think. When will it be fixed? Never. There's no boolean type. Why not? Well you could just make your own, so just do that. Every time.
22:54  * jml2 tweets random strings from irc
22:54 < irwiss> ah there we go, remembered my pet peeve, mysql in a nutshell :) http://sqlfiddle.com/#!9/4c5303/1/0
22:54 < sauvin> No booleans? Now, that's just WRONG. It's a FELONY!
22:55 < phogg> sauvin: The SQL standard doesn't describe a boolean type because Oracle refused to allow it (because a boolean is true or false, but they found it impossible to comprehend that it could be true or false or null).
22:56 < jml2> phogg, a boolean can never be null... it woudl be considered "false" the least..
22:56 < phogg> Every other RDBMS provides a built in bool anyway in one form or another, but Oracle sticks to their answer: It's not possible to have a boolean in a database, but you can fake it yourself if you really want.
22:56 < phogg> jml2: Ah, I see you are new to databases.
22:56 < jml2> phogg, fake... as in fake sex..
22:56 < phogg> A boolean can be null and null is not false.
22:56 < jml2> lol
22:57 < sauvin> Put it this way: "Yes", "No", "unattested".
22:57 < phogg> jml2: (false = null) # false, (true = null) # false, (null is null) # true.
22:57 < jml2> phogg, and that depends on the stubborn devs!
22:57 < Lymia> Can't you write, like
22:58 < Lymia> "BOOL NOT NULL"
22:58 < Lymia> In every RMDBS ever
22:58 < phogg> sauvin: try telling Oracle that. Or don't, we know what they'll say.
22:58 < sauvin> Of the three that I know of, Lymia, yes.
22:58 < phogg> Lymia: except Oracle (unless you define your own custom type).
22:58 < phogg> Lymia: and in SQL Server it's called 'bit'
22:58 < arvut> Lymia: bool b != NULL;
22:58 < Lymia> I don't actually have a use case for anything more complex than sqlite, so. Not that experienced with proper RMDBSes.
22:59 < jml2> love = true or love = false  --- I'm substituting Boolean with Lovelace please mind me..
22:59 < azarus> Lymia: sqlite is a proper RDBMS ;)
22:59 < phogg> Lymia: They're just like SQLite but with more parts of the SQL language supported and many more custom extensions to it.
22:59 < jml2> attributing credit to women.... :)))
22:59 < sauvin> Lymia, if you're reasonably familiar with sqlite, you'd find the jump to something else mostly a matter of surviving the adminstration crap.
22:59 < phogg> Lymia: sqlite is a bit weak on windowing functions and the like
23:00 < phogg> sauvin: if you're *very lucky* you'll find a real DBA to do the admin part and then it's no trouble at all!
23:00 < jml2> sqlite is for single-run applications .... our webbrowsers use it...
23:00 < phogg> unless the DB is Oracle, of course
23:00 < sauvin> sqlite concurrency stinks, which is why I can't use it.
23:00 < jml2> ^ and is a reason why spectre is even more pervasive because of things like it...
23:00 < jml2> ("sqlite")
23:00 < Lymia> .. isn't spectre mostly a concern for things with VMs?
23:01 < jml2> not sqlite's fault XD
23:01 < phogg> Lymia: If you said "things like everything" then you'd be closer to the truth.
23:01 < irwiss> tbh it's concurrency is fine as long as you don't overload your disk IO and don't do stuff it's not designed for like multi-threading, if you access from different processes it works okay-ish
23:01 < azarus> sqlite is in just about everything, stuff we wouldn't even guess it's in
23:01 < jml2> Lymia, nonono.. much more than that.. it's still not fully patched and will take more months to...
23:01 < azarus> like curl and java
23:04 < Lymia> I haven't heard of a way to exploit it without at least some specialized code running in the same machine, at least.
23:04 < stevendale> run arr em arr eff tilde slash, from JavaScript in an ad
23:05 < Lymia> The evaluation is probably different if you're some IT admin in enterprise, I guess.
23:05 < azarus> hah, firejail!
23:05 < irwiss> most worms, rootkits etc are specialized code running in same machine :)
23:05 < azarus> protects from that ;)
23:05 < Lymia> irwiss, ... which probably don't need spectre to steal all your data, since it's already running on the system and can read data using normal APIs.
23:06 < Lymia> (At least, on desktop.)
23:06 < stevendale> If somebody like valve put a virus in TF2 or Dota 2, millions of people around the globe would be affected
23:07 < stevendale> They don't need Russia to start a cyberwar, they can do it themselves
23:07 < phogg> stevendale: you don't need valve to do it you just need to compromise some valve systems or employees. Pretty trivial to anyone with a budget.
23:08 < irwiss> Lymia: doesn't have to be, stuff like rowhammer works in a "sandboxed" js vm
23:08 < jml2> stevendale, heard of blueborne?  and that other wifi-exploit makes 4 big major exploits the last 12 months... that already is a billion devices affected.. :)
23:09 < jml2> stevendale, not millions.. billions!!
23:09 < stevendale> jml2, Mostly Android
23:09 < jml2> *Assdroids!
23:09 < stevendale> jml2, I don't use bluetooth at all on my phone for that reason
23:09 < jml2> and that's why I want Librem5...
23:09 < phogg> aka most people
23:09 < stevendale> I removed the kernel modules with root
23:09 < stevendale> :P
23:09 < hanshenrik> if someone like Microsoft put in a system that can download and execute anything they want, silently in the background, at any time, billions of people would be affected
23:09 < hanshenrik> oh wait, they did.
23:09 < stevendale> My root is adb shell access only
23:09 < stevendale> Via cable
23:10 < hanshenrik> they call it Windows Updates
23:10 < irwiss> is that windows update or you./...
23:10 < irwiss> nvm :)
23:10 < phogg> hanshenrik: I believe the infection was called "Windows 10"
23:10 < hanshenrik> indeed it is
23:10  * stevendale uses Wine, after Wine 3.0 hit stable, absolutely everything reasonable works
23:10 < hanshenrik> stevendale, did they fix Diablo 1 / DirectX 6 issues?
23:10 < stevendale> hanshenrik, o/
23:11 < phogg> what does appdb say?
23:11 < jml2> stevendale, https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ ... this is the rescue for our digital future -- projects like these ones... so that we can still update our phones any time we need to..
23:11 < stevendale> hanshenrik, Idk, but Wine Development has almost complete DX11 hanshenrik
23:12 < Lymia> irwiss, yeah, it's legitimately scary for VMs and sandboxes.
23:12 < jml2> stevendale, you double completed his nick name
23:12 < jml2> stevendale, hahahaha
23:12 < hanshenrik> wow, they actually did
23:12 < stevendale> jml2, I think I need coffee
23:13 < Lymia> But, like. From what I've read, the impact of Spectre is limited to arbitrary memory read, and only through side-channels in the CPU state itself.
23:14 < stevendale> Isn't Linux patched against Spectre?
23:14 < Lymia> I'm not sure what exactly the patch for Spectre even is. Meltdown is definitely patched everywhere
23:14 < stevendale> Except Win XP/vista Lymia
23:14 < jml2> gotta work on my wp...
23:15 < Lymia> stevendale, I'm pretty sure you don't need CPU exploits to pwn those
23:15 < Lymia> :)
23:16 < stevendale> Wine runs better anyway
23:16 < stevendale> Stuff that only works in 7 SP1+ works in Wine
23:17 < azarus> I like Wine, but running a VM with PCI passthrough is less hassle for me, and everything just works...
23:17 < stevendale> I do agree Wine is tedious getting things to work
23:17 < stevendale> But the decreased RAM & CPU load is worth it
23:18 < stevendale> Especially on low-mid range hardware
23:18 < revel> Honestly, the few times I've recently felt like trying a game on Wine or a VM, it's just been so much work for nothing.
23:18 < azarus> I mostly play DiRT Rally right now, so Wine won't work for me
23:19 < azarus> But for stuff like Fallout, Wine's awesome
23:19 < azarus> (Fallout 1, 2, 3)
23:19 < stevendale> After Windows 10 goes EOL at Wine 202x...
23:19 < stevendale> Wine will hit golden age
23:20 < azarus> I haven't had Windows on any of my hardware since 2015 or so thanks to QEMU/KVM and Wine
23:20 < azarus> so yay!
23:22 < stevendale> Everything is so much faster in Wine
23:23 < azarus> Not necessarily. With games that are bottlenecked by the GPU, the QEMU VM might even be faster
23:24 < azarus> Since Windows GPU drivers are generally (there are exceptions) better
23:24 < DrGonzo> morning, i'm running 4.15 on ubuntu 18.04 and i have this powered external hardrive usb which i'm trying to mount. connecting it throws some messages in dmesg about initializing the drive. and then time goes by. i eventually get a bunch ofkernel tasks that hung. running fdisk -l just hangs and never finishes. the files /dev/sdbX are created.
23:24 < DrGonzo> is there anything i can do to try to debug why it's hanging?
23:24 < azarus> But for games like Doom 2016 with Vulkan... Damn, Wine is fast.
23:25 < DrGonzo> (I can provide log)
23:25 < Lymia> Does Wine support Vulkan? :v
23:25 < azarus> Lymia: of course
23:25 < klotz> since 3.0 i think it does
23:25 < Lymia> It just yells at me that there's no vulkan.dll
23:26 < zapotah> DrGonzo: does it work on other systems?
23:26 < azarus> I had it working with 2.21 or something?
23:26 < DrGonzo> zolvaring, it works on osx
23:26 < azarus> Definitely pre-3.0
23:26 < klotz> right, all the better then
23:26 < DrGonzo> it doesn't on my raspberry pi running debian either
23:26 < DrGonzo> (i think 4.14)
23:26 < zapotah> DrGonzo: have you tried recently?
23:26 < DrGonzo> yes
23:26 < Lymia> I'm on 3.4, and can't get it to work :c
23:26 < azarus> Lymia: what GPU, what kernel...
23:27 < azarus> got vulkan installed?
23:27 < zapotah> DrGonzo: what model is it?
23:27 < Lymia> Intel IGPU (Vulkan works on Linux, I have drivers installed), most recent from Arch :c
23:27 < DrGonzo> the harddrive?
23:27 < Lymia> It's literally my own code that isn't detecting Vulkan
23:27 < Lymia> v.v
23:27 < zapotah> DrGonzo: aye
23:27 < Lymia> (On Wine)
23:27 < Lymia> (It runs on Linux)
23:27 < azarus> Lymia: Argh. Works for me on my radeon
23:27 < DrGonzo> https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/western-digital-wd-my-book-4tb-2-5-usb-3-0-external-hard-drive-wdbbgb0040hbk-nesn-wdbbgb0040hbk-nesn/10482142.aspx
23:28 < stevendale> I play EVE Online in Wine on Lubuntu 17.10, Intel HD Graphics 4000
23:28 < azarus> Had Doom 2016 on high settings 1440p with 70 FPS on my trusty Gentoo
23:28  * azarus dons sunglasses
23:28 < klotz> Lymia: has the arch wiki entry on wine been of any help?
23:29 < klotz> there's a section on vulkan
23:29 < DrGonzo> and running smartctl, badblock, nlkid, etc all hang
23:30 < klotz> azarus: very nice indeed
23:30 < Lymia> aaah
23:30 < Lymia> Vulkan drives on the Wine side.
23:30 < Lymia> That's a no
23:30 < cluelessperson> can someone help me understand how nfs permissions work?
23:30 < klotz> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wine#Vulkan
23:31 < stevendale> Ahhhhh
23:32 < stevendale> EVE online is patching
23:32 < Psi-Jack> NFS permissions work like POSIX permissions.
23:32  * stevendale uses ext2... 'nuff said
23:33 < azarus> ... ext2? ookay
23:33 < Psi-Jack> Lymia: Also #winehq
23:33 < TR1950X> disappointed. The new threadripper is gonna be 16 cores.
23:33 < Psi-Jack> TR1950X: With 64 lanes.
23:34 < TR1950X> That is the same as the curren TR
23:34 < Psi-Jack> And?
23:34 < jim> cluelessperson, it's a lot like normal unix file permissions... only, the nfs server machine will have user id numbers on its files and dirs, and the client machine will interpret them as if those are users on the client machine...
23:34 < Psi-Jack> TR1950X: You will never need more than 640kb RAM, too.
23:35 < cluelessperson> jim: ah.  Well at the moment I just have "root:root" set and the same on the other machine, so I don't see the correlation
23:35 < cluelessperson> jim: I'll do some digging into how this thing is handing permissions
23:35 < cluelessperson> jim: thanks
23:36 < jim> cluelessperson, look at it this way... say you add a user to the server machine, and it gets user id 1000
23:36 < azarus> XFS is the oldest mainstream Linux filesystem, more than 15 years in mainline, and since ~20 years in active development :D
23:37 < jim> and the name of that user on the server machine is bob
23:37 < jim> now say you mount bob
23:37 < jim> 'err
23:37 < moriarty> which is the best linux distro to run a full bitcoin node?
23:37 < Psi-Jack> azarus: And it didn't even start with Linux.
23:37 < Psi-Jack> moriarty: None
23:37 < azarus> Psi-Jack: IRIX ;)
23:37 < moriarty> Psi-Jack, awwwww
23:38 < sauvin> Xenix.
23:39 < jim> now say you mount bob's home dir onto the client machine... so there are bob's files... meanwhile, on the client machine you add a user named sue to the client machine... and it gets user id 1000
23:39 < cluelessperson> jim: I feel like I understand that.  So if you have the same uids,gids on the machines, they have the same persmissions, but it appears this is erroring for a different reason.  Thanks though. :)
23:39 < moriarty> sauvin, was that in reply to my question?
23:39 < sauvin> moriarty, you probably need to understand that cryptocurrency isn't held in high regard here.
23:40 < cluelessperson> moriarty: Debian
23:40 < moriarty> sauvin, ah ok
23:40 < cluelessperson> moriarty: and you can PM me if you'd like personal help.
23:40 < moriarty> cheers cluelessperson
23:40 < moriarty> cluelessperson++
23:40 < moriarty> at least someone's helpful :) not like all you mean folks
23:40 < jim> cluelessperson, ok, so on the client, bob's files are owned by sue... etc etc.
23:41 < jim> (just had to finish the sentence)
23:42 < jim> moriarty, I guess you can buy that hardware node, I forget what it's called
23:43 < moriarty> jim, trezor?
23:43 < jim> I guess :) I completely forgot :)
23:43 < moriarty> no worries :)
23:43 < jim> I guess they cost about 1300 each
23:44 < moriarty> jim, probably this - https://bitseed.org
23:47 < mawk> if using ethtool I set an interface as having checksum offload, the kernel is obligated to give frames with no checksum ?
23:47 < xz> the interface will strip checksum
23:48 < xz> hardware
23:48 < mawk> strip ?
23:49 < xz> yeah, strip (remove)
23:50 < mawk> you mean put no checksum at all ?
23:50 < xz> incoming packet (with checksum) will get that checksum removed on interface level and then get passed to kernel
23:51 < mawk> ah
23:52 < xz> actually I might be wrong
23:52 < bomb> Gtk vs Qt?
23:52 < mawk> not outcoming packets ?
23:52 < mawk> ougoing
23:52 < xz> I think the checksum as a field (part of packet) stays there all the time
23:52 < mawk> kernel will hand unchecksummed packets to the interface
23:52 < mawk> yes
23:52 < xz> checksum offloading is just check if checksum match
23:52 < xz> so for incoming ones interface will check if match, then pass to kernel
23:52 < mawk> yes
23:53 < xz> for outcoming interface will fill the checksum field inside the packet
23:53 < mawk> yeah
23:53 < mawk> I'm making a tun application, and in the header there is this: #define TUN_F_CSUM 0x01 /* You can hand me unchecksummed packets. */
23:53 < mawk> in the section GSO, which means generic send offload I believe
23:53 < xz> makes sense
23:53 < mawk> and I wonder if that means that the kernel gives my application unchecksummed packets
23:54 < mawk> but if I enable this thing I still get packets with checksums: 64 bytes from 172.16.0.1 to 172.16.0.2: checksum 9e42
23:55 < stevendale> kamikaze
--- Log closed Sun Apr 29 00:00:02 2018