--- Log opened Sun Apr 29 00:00:02 2018
00:11 < mawk> how do I change parameters of the vpn0 interface ? to raise the speed limit for instance
00:12 < mawk> using ethtool maybe ? why did the kernel chose 10 Mbps ?
00:13 < [R]> speedd limit?
00:20 < mawk> reported by ethtool [R]
00:20 < [R]> what?
00:20 < mawk> "settings for tun0: speed: 10Mb/s"
00:20 < mawk> that looks like a speed limit*
00:20 < [R]> its not a physicl device
00:20 < [R]> so it means nothing
00:21 < [R]> tahts where the physical link speed is reported
00:21 < mawk> alright
00:22 < Sitri> Did you test the speed using other means?
00:22 < mawk> no, the program isn't finished yet
00:22 < Sitri> What software are you using to setup the vpn?
00:22 < mawk> I'm coding my own
00:23 < mawk> but I'm nowhere near a vpn for now
00:23 < mawk> just playing with the tun device and its features
00:23 < mawk> and when trying to enable checksum offloading I stumbled upon that speed
00:25 < mawk> I'm trying to tell the kernel to not bother with checksumming ipv4 datagrams it hands to my program, using the TUNSETOFFLOAD ioctl with that flag #define TUN_F_CSUM 0x01 /* You can hand me unchecksummed packets. */; but it has no visible effect
00:27 < aaro> what effect you expect or looking for?
00:28 < utack> libreoffice should have a "not quite committing" mode when closing unsaved files. just start document recovery for it and i decide next time if i still need it
00:28 < utack> killing it with xkill kinda works for that
00:28 < mawk> aaro: reading unchecksummed datagrams from the tun device
00:28 < mawk> currently I read stuff like 180 bytes from 172.16.0.1 to 239.255.255.250: checksum 3eb5
00:30 < aaro> checksum at the link layer? or the ip layer?
00:30 < mawk> the ip layer
00:30 < mawk> I assume
00:31 < mawk> otherwise I'd expect the ioctl to fail for tun mode
00:31 < mawk> the only info I've got from the link layer using a tun device is the Type field
00:33 < aaro> checksum is added automatically by kernel on outgoing packets
00:33 < mawk> yes
00:33 < mawk> and I'd like the kernel to not do that
00:34 < mawk> it will be ipv4 inside tcp inside ip, no need for an inner checksum
00:34 < [R]> ip ception
00:34 < mawk> lol
00:35 < aaro> i see
00:38 < mawk> IPv4/IPv4 inside TLS inside TCP inside IPv4, actually
00:38 < mawk> the need for a checksum is even lower
00:39 < azarus> oof, the overhead
00:40 < mawk> yeah
00:40 < mawk> same than openvpn over TCP
00:40 < mawk> I'm doing a simpler openvpn clone, in that regard
00:41 < mawk> with crypto-key routing for instance
00:41 < azarus> why not use wireguard?
00:41 < mawk> that's what I use
00:41 < mawk> but it's UDP only, it doesn't work for macdonalds wifi and stuff
00:42 < mawk> I use wireguard for every other situation
00:42 < mawk> even on my android phone, I recompiled the kernel with the wireguard patch
00:42 < azarus> it worked pretty good for me on random wifis
00:42 < mawk> yeah, it depends on the firewall
00:42 < azarus> ayy, nice. couldn't be bothered to recompile my phone's kernel :P
00:42 < mawk> lol
00:42 < azarus> i just use openvpn on my phone
00:43  * azarus shrugs
00:43 < ntd> mawk, mcd wifi allows udp outbound, perhaps depending on locale
00:43 < mawk> yeah
00:43 < mawk> in france it's a captive portal wifi, doesn't allow anything but 80/443
00:43 < mawk> and UDP 53 to the LAN dns server
00:44 < azarus> ergh... awful
00:44 < ntd> udp53, udp68
00:44 < mawk> yeah
00:44 < lupine> ah good, time to tunnel over dns
00:44 < mawk> lol
00:44 < lupine> probably easier to have an altssh on port 443 somewhere
00:44 < mawk> using TXT fields
00:45 < mawk> yeah, I tried that first
00:45 < mawk> but for some unknown reason openssh couldn't create a tun device on my laptop
00:45 < mawk> I ended up running sshd inside gdb, but didn't found the bug
00:45 < mawk> so I started making my own tun vpn
00:45 < mawk> just a quick thing using socat works, but it's fun to code
00:51 < stevendale> Is Arch really that good
00:52 < [R]> it's the best
00:52  * [R] giggls
00:53 < stevendale> How many architectures does it support [R]
00:53 < [R]> i'm sure you can go to their site and look?
00:54 < bray90820> Is there a way to trigger like a fake  reboot with a live disk without losing your settings
00:54 < [R]> what is a fake reboot
00:54 < [R]> what "settings"
00:56 < mgolisch> stevendale: one: amd64
00:56 < bray90820> Basically what I wanna do is see how my bluetooth mouse handles a reboot without installing ubuntu
00:56 < [R]> disable the bluetooth interface
00:56 < stevendale> That's stupid mgolisch
00:56 < [R]> and then reeanble it
00:57 < WorldGenesis[v]> Hello :D What's the command to follow network traffic (via command-line) to a specific IP/host? kind of like traceroute i think
00:58 < mgolisch> stevendale: hm depends, no real benefit from badly supported architectures, think they are short on active developers
00:58 < [R]> WorldGenesis[v]: "follow"?
00:58 < phogg> WorldGenesis[v]: traceroute
00:58 < phogg> WorldGenesis[v]: or be more specific
00:58 < phogg> could be he wants tcpdump, or maybe mtr, or possibly iftop
00:59 < WorldGenesis[v]> it shows packet loss percentage, and every server its hitting before going to the destination host
00:59 < WorldGenesis[v]> but yeah, it was mtr
00:59 < WorldGenesis[v]> i was like "mtp" ..wait no
01:05 < [R]> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8fh9om/snapd_creates_a_homesnap_folder_for_use_of_all/
01:05 < [R]> "Is it just me or are we running out of things to complain about?"
01:05 < [R]> haha
01:06 < Psi-Jack> [R]: That's it! Oh snap! That's why there's a gang of systemd haters! Too few things to complain about!
01:06 < Psi-Jack> :)
01:06 < [R]> reading through that thread and the launchpad
01:06 < [R]> people ust loosing their shit over a single directory
01:06 < WorldGenesis[v]> .snap would make sense, i wonder if someone made a mistake :P
01:07 < [R]> they explain it quite wwell in the launchpad
01:07 < [R]> if joe moron or joe moron's grandmother is looking for a file
01:07 < [R]> they ain't gonna find it if its in .snap
01:07 < Psi-Jack> [R]: What's the headline?
01:07 < [R]> Psi-Jack: snapd uses ~/snapd, "Cluttering" up the home dir
01:07 < jim> hey! stop talkin bad about joe!
01:07 < [R]> or something ridiculous liike that
01:07 < Psi-Jack> Ahhh.
01:08 < Psi-Jack> Well, snaps can be user-installed, and it contains binaries, so ~/snap makes sense.
01:08 < jim> so snaps are good?
01:08 < [R]> the complaints are it shoudl be ~/.local/share/snapd or whatever
01:09 < blaztek> Apache had ~/public_html ...
01:09 < Psi-Jack> I don't necessarily /like/ snaps, so far, it's rather... Convoluted and kinda nasty.
01:10 < WorldGenesis[v]> i just learned about snaps a couple of months ago :|
01:10 < [R]> i tried to use a vlc snap once
01:10 < [R]> it was a failure
01:10 < Psi-Jack> [R]: Yeah, I wouldn't want to /run/ things in ~/.local/share/snapd/$snapname/bin/$binname
01:10 < WorldGenesis[v]> its cool, but i can't see the reason why, is it more of a universal package sort of thing?
01:10 < [R]> the fact that for years vlc 3.0 coudl't compiel on ubuntu was worse though
01:10 < Psi-Jack> vlc sucks though.
01:10 < Psi-Jack> Thieving bastages.
01:10 < [R]> i was experimenting with bluray
01:11 < Psi-Jack> mpv does bluray, IIRC.
01:11 < [R]> but the worse part was they had autobuilds of vlc... that like clockwork would trigger all the time, and fail all the time
01:11 < [R]> i've since gotten a real bluray player
01:11 < Psi-Jack> mpv bd://
01:12 < kremator> guys, does any of you have tasted both apache2 and lighttpd?
01:12 < kremator> how good or what are the advantages of ligthttpd?
01:12 < Psi-Jack> [R]: You should've seen the nightmare of vlc and select few libs that it didn't swallow into itself already, recently, in arch. Broke a lotta people's updates for those that had vlc even installed.
01:12 < Psi-Jack> kremator: TIAS
01:12 < [R]> well everythign in arch is broke
01:12 < [R]> so tahts no surprise...
01:12  * [R] giggles
01:12 < Loshki> kremator: they both taste of pumpkin spice
01:13  * CompanionCube thinks that snap as an alternative packaging model isn't great
01:13 < Psi-Jack> [R]: Meh. I mean, I use Arch these days, just because, and I have no problems.
01:13 < [R]> CompanionCube: it's the greatest?
01:13 < CompanionCube> if we're throwing out the existing one, go for nix/guix
01:13 < stevendale> Everybody has to migrate to Slackware
01:13 < stevendale> o/
01:13 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: just because, everything else is worse ?
01:14 < Psi-Jack> Just because I wanted to try something very specific
01:15 < Psi-Jack> And so far, I've been quite happy with it. Any AUR packages I build, I have them automatically built into packages and sent to a repository server in my network for other systems to use, which my personal laptop, company laptop and desktop all share.
01:16 < [R]> sounds like a whole todo
01:16 < pnbeast> kremator, it would help if you just ask your real question.
01:18 < syb0rg> So who's on some flavor of ubuntu 18.04 right now?
01:18 < Aph3x-WL> no one
01:18 < syb0rg> :(
01:18 < Psi-Jack> There's no flavors of bits.
01:18 < blaztek> Bionic beaver scares me
01:18 < syb0rg> There are at least two flavors of bits, Psi-Jack
01:18 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
01:18 < syb0rg> blaztek, but it sounds futuristic and therefore must be good
01:19 < syb0rg> it's bionic
01:19 < triceratux> my firefox 59 on 18.04 crashed so i had to drop to 16.04.3 which actually performs
01:19 < Psi-Jack> 0 and 1 are not flavors. ;)
01:19 < syb0rg> depends on your encoding format Psi-Jack
01:19 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: It's all about Chrome.
01:19 < blaztek> syb0rg: it sounds like what the bionic man really really wants
01:19 < syb0rg> lol
01:20 < syb0rg> well I for one think xubuntu 18.04 is nice so far
01:20 < blaztek> I’m sure it is
01:20 < syb0rg> xfce4 *finally* respects my monitor power settings
01:20 < syb0rg> with no extra work
01:20 < Psi-Jack> What I am personally miffed about is, the chat server I run, doesn't make rpm or deb packages, but instead only docker (unsupported now), or snaps.
01:20 < blaztek> syb0rg: awesome
01:20 < syb0rg> I have had a configuration guide for years I no longer have to care about lol
01:21 < Psi-Jack> syb0rg: That's funny. XFCE4 hasn't had much of any, if any, changes in the past few years.
01:21 < [R]> Psi-Jack: snappy snaps
01:21 < syb0rg> Psi-Jack, except this bug fix finally, apparently. Although maybe it is lightdm that changed?
01:21 < Psi-Jack> Most likely, if you're running Ubuntu, it's an Ubuntu-specific bug fix.
01:22 < syb0rg> Psi-Jack, I have been told the xfce and xubuntu teams are tightly integrated, so I assume 18.04 xubuntu has the latest in xfce goodness
01:22 < Psi-Jack> syb0rg: You were told misinformation
01:22 < syb0rg> always possible Psi-Jack
01:22 < Bashing-om> Psi-Jack: some changes in xfce: https://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-18-04-lts-brings-a-revamped-xfce-desktop-experience-with-new-mate-apps-520872.shtml
01:23 < codebam> my .desktop files in /usr/share/applications aren't being detected, how can I fix it?
01:23 < triceratux> pffft trump in macomb county
01:23 < triceratux> geez hes terrible somebody stop him
01:24 < codebam> like all the default ones that were installed by my package manager
01:24 < codebam> none of them are listed anymore
01:24 < Psi-Jack> Bashing-om: Hmmm
01:24 < codebam> everything in ~/.local/share/applications/ is listed though
01:25 < Bashing-om> Psi-Jack: Booting xubuntu-core 18.04 .. and I must say is now nicer in several ways .
01:25 < fa0> Hello
01:25 < Psi-Jack> Well, it's Ubuntu, so I care literally nothing about it. :)
01:25 < fa0> On a disk that had gdisk wipe out the MBR, thus making the partions gone, is there a way to get back to the data without lossing it?
01:25 < Aph3x-WL> the only thing nice about ubuntu is that you don't have to use it :D
01:25  * syb0rg high five Bashing-om 
01:26 < fa0> will gdisk r option recover?
01:27 < [R]> fa0: testdisk
01:28 < syb0rg> Psi-Jack, Aph3x-WL, show us on the doll where Canonical touched you
01:29 < Psi-Jack> syb0rg: Everywhere.
01:29 < triceratux> syb0rg: right here at 127.0.0.53
01:29 < uplime> $ touch Psi-Jack
01:30 < fa0> [R]: Can testdisk restore the partitions without loosing the data?
01:30 < [R]> it'll restore the partition table
01:30 < [R]> that is all
01:30 < [R]> nothing to do with your data
01:30 < codebam> can someone please help me, half my applications aren't working after my latest update
01:31 < fa0> but in restoring it, then you can acccess the data, or it's going to be gone?
01:31 < codebam> or more than half really
01:31 < triceratux> codebam: ruh roh. what distro ?
01:32 < Truk> hello i need to execute source /opt/eff.org/certbot/venv/bin/activate && pip install certbot-dns-route53 as a root user, but if a do a sudo -s in a bash script, it exists
01:32 < codebam> triceratux: void linux, I did an update and now Xorg or whatever manages .desktop files isn't finding anything in /usr/share/applications, as well as evince won't load because of this even though all the files are there https://stackoverflow.com/questions/28953925/glib-gio-error-no-gsettings-schemas-are-installed-on-the-system
01:32 < Bashing-om> fa0: Maybe restoee the superblock from backups ? : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2177756 .
01:32 < codebam> so there must me some sort of issue with indexing
01:32 < Bashing-om> restore*
01:32 < [R]> Truk: what?
01:32 < pnbeast> codebam, I have no idea what ".desktop" files are, but I'd look at your WM, first.
01:33 < [R]> pnbeast: your mom is a .desktop file
01:33 < Truk> if I do : sudo -s && source /opt/eff.org/certbot/venv/bin/activate && pip install certbot-dns-route53 in a bash script, it doesnt work
01:33 < Truk> the script is stopped
01:33 < codebam> pnbeast: desktop files are for applications that are indexed by your window manager / desktop environment. like when you search to launch an application in gnome or unity
01:33 < pnbeast> My mom isn't even capable of understanding what a .desktop file *might* be, let alone what one is.
01:34 < [R]> Truk: yeah, that makes no sense
01:34 < [R]> Truk: first its going to run sudo, then when that compltes, its going to run the rest
01:34 < mawk> sudo -s in a non-interactive setup will just quit after doing nothing
01:34 < codebam> I could try using another dmenu desktop application I suppose
01:34 < Truk> it runs when I exit with ctrld-D
01:35 < codebam> but that still doesn't fix the issue with evince
01:35 < Truk> ctrl D*
01:35 < mawk> yeah if you're in a tty
01:35 < codebam> which I believe is related
01:35 < mawk> at the top of your script you should do something like [[ $EUID == 0 ]] || sudo "$0" "$@"
01:35 < mawk> and it will restart your script as root
01:36 < Truk> mawk: ok, could you please explain me what you wrote ?
01:37 < mawk> it checks if we're currently running as root, and if it's not the case it restarts the script in sudo
01:37 < Psi-Jack> If the effective UID is 0, do nothing, or do sudo run itself with the same arguments originally.
01:37 < Psi-Jack> It doesn't restart the script, however.
01:37 < uplime> exec sudo ... would be kind of like restarting it
01:37 < Psi-Jack> It runs a subshell that runs the script again, afterwards it would continue to run.
01:37 < mawk> ah yeah I forgot an exec
01:37 < Psi-Jack> There you go. :)
01:38 < Truk> ok thanks, so i just have to put this on the first line of my script ?
01:38 < fa0> Bashing-om: I'm going to give testdisk a go to try and recover the partition as it mentions this...
01:38 < uplime> Truk: after the shebang
01:39 < Bashing-om> fa0: :) Whatever works best for you . If possible sparring off the superblock is quick - once you know how .
01:39 < fa0> never done that, so don't know how hehe... :P
01:40 < [R]> ♪ she bangs... she bangs...
01:40 < mawk> lol
01:40 < mawk> there are other tricks in the same vein Truk , for instance for setting a lock
01:40 < pnbeast> fa0, out of curiosity, why do you care?  Do you have backups?
01:40 < fa0> testdisk so far looking good, at the 'Analyse' it shows my partitions... :P
01:41 < Truk> ok, by the way, i dont understand why i have to execute this command as root : source /opt/eff.org/certbot/venv/bin/activate && pip install certbot-dns-route53 => what does it change to execute it as non root ?
01:41 < mawk> pip install is a global thing Truk
01:41 < fa0> yeah I have a backup, but if this restores it faster then putting back the backup which will take several hours since we are talking over 1TB of data, well I'd rather restore the partitions
01:41 < mawk> it installs certbot-dns-route53 for the whole system, and it's maybe something you want
01:42 < mawk> uh, sorry I missed the venv bit
01:42 < Truk> yes
01:42 < Tecan> http://netpipe.ca/?page_id=961 games list
01:42 < mawk> well you need to have the same user that possesses that virtual environment directory Truk , not specifically as root
01:42 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. certbot natively supports route53 now, hmm? Interesting.
01:42 < mawk> checks who is the owner of /opt/eff.org/certbot/venv Truk
01:42 < energizer> whats the right way to get cronjobs to access my environment variables?
01:42 < uplime> energizer: define them in crontab
01:43 < uplime> or equivalent
01:43 < pnbeast> fa0, sounds good!
01:43 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, but certbot still doesn't support ECC. Boooooo!
01:43 < Truk> the owner is root mawk
01:44 < Truk> what is ECC Psi-Jack ?
01:44 < Truk> what is the lock mawk ?
01:44 < uplime> an aws service
01:44 < energizer> uplime: like * * * * * MYVAR=value && $HOME/script ?
01:44 < Psi-Jack> Eliptic Curve Certificates
01:44 < uplime> oh
01:44 < Truk> amazon certificates ?
01:44 < uplime> energizer: MYVAR=value "$HOME/script"
01:45 < Psi-Jack> Truk: No
01:45 < energizer> uplime: ty
01:45 < uplime> but I had meant at the top of the crontab. just FOO=bar
01:45 < energizer> uplime: ok
01:45 < Psi-Jack> energizer: "thank you"
01:45 < mawk> Truk: a lock, it's when a script waits for a resource to be available for it itself
01:45 < uplime> Truk: EC2 (or ECC) is an amazon service. i wrongly guessed what Psi-Jack meant
01:45 < Psi-Jack> && not needed in above cron line either.
01:45 < mawk> like a file that the script is reading from/writing to
01:45 < Psi-Jack> MYVAR=value $HOME/script
01:45 < uplime> but you should quote $HOME
01:46 < mawk> there are other situations where you need a lock
01:46 < Psi-Jack> EC2 is EC2, not ECC
01:46 < fa0> Holy Crap - 4 Simple Steps and done in less then 1 minute! LOL -- Analyse > Quick Search > Enter > Write
01:46 < uplime> well it stands for Elastic Cloud Compute
01:46 < fa0> Woot my drive is accessible
01:47 < stevendale> allahuakbar
01:47 < stevendale> kamikaze
01:47 < uplime> Elastic Cloud Compute -> ECC -> EC2
01:47 < Psi-Jack> Its never been labeled or represented as "ECC".
01:47 < lupine> best avoided
01:47 < uplime> it might not have been labeled, but I've seen it refered to as that
01:49 < Truk> I am trying to use certbot with elastic beanstalk
01:49 < Psi-Jack> wut?
01:50 < pnbeast> Now you're just making up silly names!
01:50 < Truk> it's a aws orchestration service
01:50 < Truk> with docker
01:50 < Truk> i use a single container
01:50 < Psi-Jack> I know what it is.
01:50 < pnbeast> Sure, with docker, because there weren't enough silly names, already.
01:50 < Truk> but it seems i should have used ecs
01:51 < Psi-Jack> Why aren't you using the AWS Certificate Manager?
01:51 < pnbeast> Gotta have an elastic beanstalk, of course!
01:51 < Truk> because i dont need the load balancer
01:51 < Truk> and i dont want to pay for it
01:52 < Psi-Jack> Truk: You don't need the ELB to use it with elastic beanstalk.
01:52 < Psi-Jack> It's also free to use the AWS Certificate Manager.
01:53 < Truk> how can u use the amazon certificate without the LB ?
01:53 < Psi-Jack> "you"
01:53 < Truk> they say without LB, no certificate
01:54 < Psi-Jack> https://docs.aws.amazon.com/acm/latest/userguide/acm-services.html
01:54 < Psi-Jack> For further help, see ##aws
01:55 < Truk> no, without a LB it doesnt work
01:55 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, reading into it, yeah, it does fire up an ELB for it, likely an ELBv2 specifically.
01:57 < energizer> Psi-Jack: are you saying you prefer that people not abbreviate 'thank you' ?
01:58 < Truk> thank you very much, you enjoyed my day with this root tip
02:01 < genoobie> okay this is probably the dumbest question
02:01 < genoobie> but I am installing a brother hl-2270DW printer
02:01 < genoobie> I downloaded the installer from Brother and I am at the point where I am supposed to pick a URI
02:02 < genoobie> my options are the standard, lpr, ipp, etc and LPD://nodename
02:02 < genoobie> is any one option better than another?
02:02 < genoobie> it's a network printer
02:03 < genoobie> as far as "cups" handling is, etc
02:03 < pnbeast> genoobie, why don't you compose a complete set of sentences, and press the return key just once?
02:05 < genoobie> I am installing a brother hl-2270DW printer. I downloaded the installer from Brother and I am at the point where I am supposed to pick a URI.  My options are the standard, lpr, ipp, etc and LPD://nodename.  Is any one option better than another (as far as "cups" handling is, etc).
02:05 < genoobie> pnbeast: is that better?
02:05 < pnbeast> genoobie, thank you, that was excellent.
02:06 < pnbeast> genoobie, when I've bothered installing printers, which is not often, I just play around until one works and then go about my business.  I'm sure someone with more experience/knowledge will have better advice, though.
02:08 < rosa> How do i obtain the maximum width of the current terminal assuming i do not have ncurses, termcap, or ioctl assuming \003[6n does not work
02:08 < rosa> and assuming*
02:09 < stevendale> What does Linux do after /dev/sda - /dev/sdz
02:10 < rypervenche> stevendale: sdaa to sdzz, then sdaaa to sdzzz, etc.
02:11 < Psi-Jack> energizer: Actually more, it's actually a channel rule not to use SMS-style "abbreviations"
02:11 < rypervenche> Psi-Jack: Could you please not abbreviate SMS? k thx
02:11 < stevendale> Is it possible to have so many drives in a cluster that the file name in the virtual /dev addresses has so many sdX's in it that the filename becomes too long?
02:12 < rosa> (◉-◉)
02:12 < Psi-Jack> rypervenche: Don't make me sick uplime you.
02:12 < rypervenche> :D
02:12 < uplime> let me at em
02:12 < Psi-Jack> heh
02:12 < rosa> As in /dev/sda/dev/sdb/dev/sdc and so on
02:12 < rosa> ?
02:13 < uplime> /dev/abc/def/sdb/ghii
02:13 < rosa> (◉-◉)
02:14 < energizer> Psi-Jack: ah, i didn't know, thanks for the heads up. :)
02:14 < stevendale> What would happen if you've got so many hard ware drive symlinks in /dev that it can't add any more because of the file name limit, but you plugged one in?
02:14 < mgolisch> no idea
02:14 < Psi-Jack> energizer: No problem. Personally I hate weeding through the nastiness of it myself, so much that years ago I created my own "abbreviation" for what it is, shtspk.
02:14 < AOL_> do it
02:15 < stevendale> Where's a tool to make virtual cdroms :P
02:15  * Psi-Jack pulls the trapdoor lever, making AOL_ fall through to his doom.
02:17  * AOL_ shouts up to Psi-Jack "YOU'VE GOT MAIL!"
02:18 < Psi-Jack> I do, actually. 1,860 of 'em unread in my inbox.
02:18 < Abbott> I'm trying to move a file around on an ftp server with lftp using mv path/to/file path/to/destination
02:18 < Abbott> both source and destination are on the ftp server
02:18 < Abbott> but when I try I get error 550
02:18 < Psi-Jack> D'uh
02:18 < Psi-Jack> Enter
02:18 < stevendale> All from Facebook Psi-Jack ?
02:18 < Psi-Jack> Enter
02:19 < Psi-Jack> Abbott: Excessive use of Enter is bad, m'kay? FTP is also bad.
02:19 < lupine> ftp is fine
02:19 < lupine> but I don't recall if it supports this case
02:19 < Psi-Jack> No, no it is not fine.
02:19 < lupine> you've just been brutalised by NAT
02:19 < lupine> it's fine
02:19 < Psi-Jack> No, no it is not fine.
02:19 < Psi-Jack> When a /client/ becomes a server, this is bad.
02:19 < stevendale> Let's see if I can do this with gcdemu....
02:19 < lupine> that's a meaningless distinction
02:19 < Abbott> sorry, I don't know why I segmented my question into three messages. but ftp is the only access I have to the server, so i'm stuck with it
02:20 < Psi-Jack> Well, contact the owner of it, then.
02:20 < lupine> Abbott: ok, ftp doesn't support that. you can download the file and push it back to the new place, or you can run a second ftp server on teh server and copy between the two
02:20 < Abbott> okay, I guess I'll just download and upload
02:20 < Psi-Jack> ftp servers support mv
02:20 < Abbott> thanks lupine
02:21 < Psi-Jack> Aka: rename
02:21 < Psi-Jack> rename old/file new/file
02:21 < stevendale> arr em arr eff slash asterix
02:21 < lupine> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FTP_commands hmm, yes, maybe RNTO will work
02:22 < pnbeast> mv ##linux ##ftp-servers-around-the-intarwebz-for-a-thousand,-Alex
02:22 < syb0rg> pnbeast, that channel would be a pain to join. Leave as-is :-|
02:22 < hatp> I'm trying to transfer files to my kobo e-reader through calibre. I went epub files to the device, and they showed up on the e-reader's drive, but I can't see them in my library
02:23 < hatp> also kobo runs linux so this is on topic
02:23 < pnbeast> syb0rg, I was just trying to keep us on topic, by the only way I could imagine.
02:23 < stevendale> Hey
02:23 < stevendale> How do I tell bash to run a command multiple times
02:23 < stevendale> I am lazy
02:24 < syb0rg> stevendale, a loop?
02:24 < stevendale> Yeah
02:24 < syb0rg> okay, then use a loop. I don't know bash loop syntax off the top of my head lol
02:24 < sauvin> hatp, what kind of linux?
02:25 < hatp> It's their own OS, but they use the linux kernel
02:25 < pnbeast> hatp, of course it's on topic!  Just post the source for your kobo e-reader and we'll figure it out for you.
02:25 < sauvin> Unfortunately, this channel is about an operating system that uses an unmodified Linux kernel and a GNU userland.
02:26 < syb0rg> hatp, are the files in the proper location for your library? If so, maybe the application responsible for building the library isn't aware of the changes? Try restarting that program or your device.
02:26 < pnbeast> Now, sauvin, he clearly said it's on topic, so it must be.
02:27 < hatp> sauvin: Why does this channel require GNU software? That's nonsense
02:27 < sauvin> This channel isn't about the kernel.
02:27 < hatp> It's about operating systems that use the linux kernell
02:27 < sauvin> And what you're describing most likely happens in a non-GNU userland space.
02:27 < sauvin> Put another way: we don't know.
02:28 < sauvin> The folks in #android might be able to help.
02:28 < stevendale> Hey sauvin
02:28 < stevendale> Random fact
02:28 < stevendale> Linux only supports 32 cd drives
02:29 < stevendale> I mean 33
02:29 < sauvin> o.O
02:29 < stevendale> sr0 to sr32
02:29 < syb0rg> stevendale, holy shit, do you need to run 34 cd drives??
02:29 < sauvin> Makes sense it'd be some power of 2, but... why so few?
02:29 < syb0rg> If so I'm impressed, but I thought CD pirating was a thing of the past
02:29 < sauvin> I thought CD *itself* was a thing of the past.
02:30 < sauvin> And DVD is getting there.
02:30 < stevendale> I am using a virtual cd rom tool
02:30 < syb0rg> sauvin, true, but *one* CD/DVD drive still comes in handy occasionally.
02:30 < stevendale> I made a bash loop to add a lot of devices
02:30 < Loshki> 33 is such an outrageous number, I'm wondering who tested it
02:30 < sauvin> I know. I have one because I still have craploads of movies to watch.
02:30 < syb0rg> stevendale, can't you mount isos directly somehow?
02:30 < sauvin> syb0rg, sure can!
02:31 < stevendale> Yep syb0rg
02:32 < stevendale> Is there even a motherboard on the planet that has the slots, let alone power output for 33 cd/dvd drives?
02:32 < syb0rg> Maybe some setup with daughterboards and multiple PSUs, lol
02:32 < sauvin> Thinking I'd rather not know. Sounds like it'll really hit your light bill.
02:32 < stevendale> Even with PATA expansion PCI/AGP/PCIe cards
02:33 < syb0rg> stevendale, if you build it let us know, I want pictures
02:34 < sauvin> High resolution pictures!
02:35 < stevendale> So not QVGA sauvin? :P
02:36 < stevendale> (320×240)
02:36 < stevendale> (4:3)
02:37 < rosa> https://i.imgur.com/hbQQ9Ww.jpg rip
02:37 < stevendale> Ubuntu Phone rosa?
02:37 < rosa> Lol
02:38 < lupine> oh hey. my dog's called rosa
02:39  * sauvin wonders if "rosa" might not sometimes call you "asro"
02:39 < stevendale> c:\$MFT\123
02:40 < stevendale> CON/CON AUX/AUX
02:40 < stevendale> c:\con\con
02:40 < syb0rg> what is this old-timey windows voodoo?
02:40 < mawk> how can NAPI be used with my tun device ?
02:40 < hailey27> looks like the stuff we POST'd to our web servers every day, lol
02:40 < stevendale> mawk, https://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/otherversions/
02:41 < lupine> don't do itttttttt
02:41 < mawk> what stevendale ?
02:41 < stevendale> Oh wait you said NAPI not NPAPI
02:41 < mawk> yeah
02:42 < mawk> "new API", some driver model for high-speed networking
02:42  * stevendale is happy with ADSL2+ over his phone line
02:43 < mawk> lol
02:45 < mawk> for my tun device there is a NAPI mode, but also a NAPI_FRAGS mode, what could it be ? no docs on the subject
02:45 < mawk> I need CAP_NET_ADMIN to set it by the way
02:47 < kazdax> aloha its satuday and i am drinking coke and rum
02:47  * dogbert2 hates the resolvconf generator in armbian...so I disabled it and handle resolv.conf myself :P
02:48 < syb0rg> kazdax, good choice. I'm drinking sumatra mountain imperial brown ale (it was on sale)
02:49 < kazdax> sounds like a astristic drink
02:49 < kazdax> which means cheers
02:49 < syb0rg> cheers!
02:50 < autopsy> mawk all I can find is a patch for gigabit ethernet that mentions NAPI frags in it's changelog.
02:50 < zapotah> WHEN DO WE GOD DAMN GET INTEL XEON D 2100?!?!
02:50 < zapotah> bloody facebook and other bullies buying the whole production line
02:51 < mawk> .
02:51 < dogbert2> hey zapotah
02:52 < kazdax> whats a good KDE tool to monitor my memory , cpu and the likes
02:52 < kazdax> that can be opened as a widget is what they are called ?
02:53 < mawk> (my cat wrote that)
02:53 < mawk> I see autopsy
02:53 < kazdax> like a small app running on the side
02:53 < kazdax> that looks preety basiclly
02:53 < pnbeast> kazdax, I like "top" - I think it works under KDE.
02:53 < kazdax> lol
02:53 < stevendale> owo
02:53 < kazdax> i need to order me some pizza after this drink
02:54 < kazdax> we got an authentic pizza place here
02:54 < kazdax> siclician all the way
02:54 < mawk> cyclician
02:54 < kazdax> better ingrediant better pizza and its not even papa johns
02:54 < kazdax> i hate the chinese place here tho
02:54 < zapotah> dogbert2: ey
02:55 < rascul> papa johns isn't good pizza
02:55 < kazdax> stupid azz chinese food ..thats to americanized ..way to much oil
02:55 < pnbeast> papa johns isn't pizza
02:55 < kazdax> ya papa johns and the likes
02:55 < rascul> it's good pizza flavored cardboard, though
02:55 < kazdax> one time ...Dominoz was probably a good pizza for delivery
02:55 < kazdax> that would come home within 30 minutes
02:55 < pnbeast> No, no it wasn't.  It was crap, too.
02:55 < kazdax> but now all the fast food pizzerias suck
02:55 < rascul> dominos has never had good pizza either
02:56 < kazdax> hey when i lived in India and dominos came down there
02:56 < rascul> no clue what india dominos is like
02:56 < kazdax> it was a huge hit ..the quality of the stuff they used there was alot
02:56 < kazdax> they wanted to make a huge impression on the Indian market
02:56 < kazdax> but eventually it downgraded and became as stupid as it is now in America
02:56 < kazdax> maybe back in the day Dominos was good ?
02:57 < kazdax> perhaps before GMO meats and veggies ?
02:57 < kazdax> you know what i mean ?
02:57 < lupine> dominos was never good
02:57 < kazdax> as a kid when i visited America ..i enjoyed pizza hut alot
02:57 < kazdax> they used to have a place for kids to play at
02:57 < kazdax> and back then as i remember pizza hut ..it was a huge huge place ..
02:57 < kazdax> and so was mickey Ds
02:58 < kazdax> atleast the mickey D and pizza hut i visit
02:58 < kazdax> i was probably in california
02:58 < storge> a lot of McD have playpens
02:58 < kazdax> do any of you live in california ?
02:59 < storge> i've seen the McD playpens all over the country
02:59 < cluelessperson> I have a question about permissions on linux FSes.
02:59 < Sitri> Just ask
02:59 < cluelessperson> How do you make it so one group can write, and another group can only read?
02:59 < Sitri> You can use ACLs
03:00 < dogbert2> the libre computer is pretty good...and now I have a console cable for the 3 pin UART on the SBC...so I can get access to the computer if I mess up something boot wise
03:01 < kazdax> whats a libre computer
03:01 < kazdax> i am looking to buy a new computer to work with
03:01 < cluelessperson> Sitri: oh god, that looks complicated, but thanks for the lead
03:02 < kazdax> looking it up
03:03 < triceratux> kazdax: libre means free. in a linux context it means no trace of corporatism
03:04 < kazdax> ahh i see
03:05 < kazdax> i am looking it up ..its nice but i am actually looking for a powerfull computer
03:05 < kazdax> this is probably something i could buy and set up for just playing around with
03:07 < cluelessperson> kazdax: So, what are you trying to build exactly?
03:08 < cluelessperson> kazdax: Intent?  Budget?
03:08 < syb0rg> kazdax, you obviously need to build a raspberry pi cluster
03:08 < cluelessperson> kazdax: You can get a low power raspberry pi to learn about linux in general.  You can set it up for a server at home, do electrical projects and more.
03:09 < iflema> pez
03:09 < cluelessperson> kazdax: If you need to analyze the bitcoin blockchain, you'll need a HUGE amount of ram and some serious programming skills.
03:09 < iflema> also pez
03:09 < cluelessperson> kazdax: If you want to run public services on the internet, you'll want to become familiar with virtual machines, probably start with proxmox
03:09 < cluelessperson> iflema: pez?
03:10 < lupine> nah, everything is serverless functions these dayas
03:10 < lupine> *sob*
03:11 < Konichiwa> cluelessperson, what is this HUGE amount of ram you speak of?
03:12 < cluelessperson> Konichiwa: Bitcoin blockchain analysis is disk IO heavy.  Best way to speed that up is to put it all in ram
03:12 < zapotah> there are some questionable things encoded into the BC chain these days
03:12 < lupine> child porn
03:12 < lupine> bibles
03:12 < lupine> other unsavoury things
03:12 < Oddity> delet bible
03:13 < zapotah> lupine: aye
03:13 < lupine> wonder if someone's stuck the protocols in yet
03:13 < lupine> the goal should be to make it illegal to own in as many countries as possible
03:14 < AOL_> the full blockchain is almost 200GB
03:14 < Konichiwa> cluelessperson, depends on what you mean by "analyze" too.  Each block is under 200MB each.
03:15 < cluelessperson> Konichiwa: AOL_ if you intend to chart out and analyze various paths in bitcoin, it requires jumping from block to block all over, often randomly
03:15 < Konichiwa> AOL_, at this moment it's 185933992KB
03:16 < AOL_> yes, almost 200GB
03:16 < Konichiwa> 520334 blocks of history
03:18 < AOL_> cluelessperson: i have no interest in analysing the blockchain other than when i send or receive BTC to be able to check the TXID, confirmations, etc., the usual stuff
03:19 < cluelessperson> AOL_: oh sure, but if I'm trying to verify that there are whales spamming transactions to bog things down, as happened in the past, it requires a huge amount of computation and analysis
03:19 < cluelessperson> skills and resources I admittedly lack
03:19 < cluelessperson> but it was fun to try
03:19 < AOL_> that usually shows up in the mempool before the blockchain to be fair
03:20 < AOL_> if you keep tabs on the mempool you would see that spam in action
03:21 < flargenop> .
03:21 < flargenop> Hello
03:21 < AOL_> Hello
03:22 < AOL_> and cluelessperson from what i understand, some of that historical TX spamming was from certain huge exchanges not batching their transactions, and instead flooding the mempool and blockchain with many small TXs
03:23 < AOL_> Coinbase, in particular.
03:23 < cluelessperson> AOL_: combination of stuff really
03:24 < cluelessperson> :)
03:24 < flargenop> Is anyone familliar with an old game called Advance Wars (for gameboy). Is there an oper source equivalent
03:24 < flargenop> *open
03:25 < syb0rg> flargenop, that game rocked!
03:25 < genoobie>  okay I just installed a printer and I want to use the PPD file on my chromebook.  Where would I find that?
03:25 < flargenop> Advance Wars it is still one of my favorites
03:26 < flargenop> I seem to recall playing a open source turn based game like that on a Linux live CD a long time ago
03:27 < flargenop> Knoppix probably?...
03:28 < toothe> what's the difference between doing: command 1 ; command 2
03:28 < toothe> and command 1 & command 2
03:29 < Psi-Jack> & is wrong.
03:29 < Psi-Jack> That's what.
03:29 < sauvin> toothe, in the first case, the second command executes no matter, what, and in the second, command 2 isn't executed if command 1 fails.
03:29 < kazdax> okay hopefully my papa john order was correct
03:29 < toothe> err...im silly
03:29 < kazdax> the works with extra cheese ..a xlarge pizza
03:29 < toothe> i am mixing up Windows and LInux.
03:29 < toothe> ignore that.
03:29 < toothe> that was a dumb question
03:29 < Psi-Jack> && on the other hand... Is as what sauvin said.
03:29 < kazdax> hey psi hey toothe
03:29 < sauvin> Oh... hey... Psi-Jack, good catch.
03:30 < kazdax> welcome revel
03:30 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: And people try to make pedantry as if it were bad. :)
03:30 < sauvin> There's pedantry with a point and pedantry that's just fulsome. What I said was misleading, and I got called on it.
03:31 < sauvin> *factually* misleading, that is.
03:31 < Psi-Jack> hehe
03:31 < sauvin> Did you understand the clarification "factually"?
03:32 < Truk> the command [[ $EUID == 0 ]] || sudo "$0" "$@" doesnt work at the top of my script
03:32 < Psi-Jack> I'm still stuck on "fulsome" ;)
03:32 < Psi-Jack> Truk: exec sudo
03:32 < Truk> it's strange because it works for another script
03:32 < Psi-Jack> Truk: Not just sudo, but exec sudo.
03:32 < Truk> exec sudo script.sh ?
03:32 < sauvin> Warning: people are more apt to need to install the 'dict' command when I'm tired.
03:34 < Psi-Jack> I actually.. don't like dict. Doesn't use webster.
03:35 < Truk> exec sudo closes my ssh connection
03:35 < sauvin> In the name of all the forgotten gods of all the forgotten pantheons from all the forgotten ages, man, keep SOME kind of dictionary around! Preferably one with more than a quarter million entries!
03:35 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. Interesting.
03:36 < Psi-Jack> Truk: What... exactly are you actually trying to do here, more specifically, so I can likely provide a safer more specific approach.
03:37 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: I do! webster.com :)
03:37 < sauvin> So, "fulsome" is a word I'd expect the average high school freshman to know.
03:37 < Truk> Psi-Jack: cat /opt/certificate_renew_cron.txt > /etc/cron.daily/certificate_renew && chmod 644 /etc/cron.daily/certificate_renew >> /var/log/output.log
03:38 < Psi-Jack> And.. Why is this being run over ssh?
03:38 < Psi-Jack> And, why are you cating to a file?
03:38 < Truk> to log the output of the command
03:38 < Psi-Jack> There's a few problems with this..
03:38 < Truk> if there is an error
03:39 < Psi-Jack> Truk: And the ssh aspect?
03:39 < Truk> i ssh to my EC2 instance
03:39 < Truk> to test the commands
03:39 < Psi-Jack> So you're ssh'ing to a shell, then running the command(s)?
03:39 < Truk> yes
03:39 < Psi-Jack> Okay. So, what distro is that running ?
03:39 < Truk> something weird : amazon linux
03:40 < Psi-Jack> Original or AMZN2?
03:40 < pnbeast> Truk, maybe you could just run script to capture output.  I haven't been following all the fun.
03:40 < Truk> Original ?
03:40 < Psi-Jack> Oh, boo. CentOS 6 based. No systemd.
03:40 < Truk> just the standard amazon linux AMI
03:40 < Psi-Jack> systemd would make this so much better.
03:41 < Truk> yes pnbeast but this is because i use elastic beanstalk, aws thing, i want to see the logs because sometimes there are no logs
03:41 < pnbeast> Truk, you misunderstood me.  The *command* script...
03:42 < Psi-Jack> Truk: So, what's the certificate_renew script look like?
03:43 < Truk> python -c 'import random; import time; time.sleep(random.random() * 3600)' && /opt/certbot-auto renew
03:44 < Psi-Jack> Heh. why the random?
03:44 < Truk> this is on the certbot documentation
03:45 < Truk> maybe because it isnt executed at the same time of other cron jobs
03:45 < Psi-Jack> Eh.. Guess it's fine, but.
03:45 < Psi-Jack> Right.
03:45 < Psi-Jack> So, that's it?
03:45 < Truk> yes
03:45 < Truk> how can i execute this as root ?
03:46 < Psi-Jack> When it's in /etc/cron.daily/ is already runs as root.
03:46 < Truk> i have a permission denied
03:46 < Truk> if i dont execute this script as root
03:46 < mawk> chmod +x on it ?
03:47 < Truk> and it seems that using sudo in the container_commands of .ebextensions makes an error
03:48 < rypervenche> Why are you using sudo at all if this is running as root?
03:48 < Psi-Jack> Truk: when it's fun by cron from /etc/cron.daily/ it runs as root.
03:48 < Psi-Jack> If you run it manually, run it as root accordingly.
03:48 < arvut> because sudo -i under root brings a root in a root!
03:48 < arvut> SQUARE ROOT!
03:49 < rypervenche> You can also put it in the root user's crontab. "crontab -e"
03:49 < Psi-Jack> bad rypervenche bad
03:49 < Psi-Jack> Avoid crontab like the plague!
03:50 < Truk> i cant put a file in /etc/cron.daily => permission denied
03:50 < saulosneto> Truk are u root?
03:50 < Psi-Jack> Truk: copy it there as root...
03:50 < Psi-Jack> Seriously not rocket science.
03:50 < saulosneto> use sudo before command or sudo -i in a terminal
03:51 < rypervenche> Psi-Jack: Why?
03:51 < Truk> it's strange that the [[ $EUID == 0 ]] || sudo "$0" "$@" works for one script but not the other
03:51 < Psi-Jack> rypervenche: heh. When you manage hundreds to thousands of servers and they use user crontabs you'll understand.
03:52 < jml2> Truk, lol
03:52 < Psi-Jack> Truk: stop that. Lol
03:52 < Psi-Jack> That advice was given to you blindly without understanding
03:52 < saulosneto> troll?
03:53 < jml2> Psi-Jack, he's your sudo pet, play with him
03:53 < Psi-Jack> Where and who?
03:53 < jml2> Psi-Jack, ya livbirt noob :)
03:53 < Psi-Jack> No you!
03:53  * jml2 ducks XD
03:54 < Truk> Psi-Jack: so it's not a good advice ?
03:54 < Psi-Jack> No
03:54 < Psi-Jack> Not for this
03:56 < rypervenche> Psi-Jack: Well, one could manage the /var/spool/cron/crontabs/root file at that point and it would be roughly the same thing.
03:56 < Psi-Jack> Not quite
03:57 < rypervenche> I guess if daily is run at different times, then that would be the only thing I could think of.
04:00 < Psi-Jack> rypervenche: The real problem is when you have several different users with different crontabs, and they're all managed in crontab, instead of /etc/cron.d where they're easily managed directly.
04:00 < Psi-Jack> There's /etc/cron.daily/* (actual scripts) that run as root only and run at 3 or 4 am system time.
04:01 < rypervenche> Psi-Jack: Well, one would still need to know all of the usernames. And with crontab each one has its own customizable time.
04:01 < Psi-Jack> rypervenche: No, in /etc/cron.d/, the crontab format is x x x x x x username command
04:02 < rypervenche> So you're proposing a single file for everything then?
04:02 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
04:02 < Psi-Jack> In /etc/cron.d/ there's multiple files.
04:02 < Psi-Jack> You define all your crons based on project, consolidating them neatly and organized.
04:04 < rypervenche> Ok, so possible multiple users based on project.
04:05 < rypervenche> That would make sense. I don't have that kind of project-based need, so for me single users wouldn't make a difference where I put them. I prefer crontabs for that since each user can edit its own.
04:05 < Psi-Jack> That's an even worse reason.
04:05 < rypervenche> And I should mention I'm all of those users :)
04:06 < Psi-Jack> Remote exploitation, attacker creates cron job to do whatever they want. :)
04:06 < rypervenche> That's a valid point.
04:06 < Psi-Jack> In  /etc/cron.d/*, they do not get that ability.
04:06 < Psi-Jack> Again, many reasons /not/ to use user crontabs.
04:07 < Psi-Jack> Truk: Figured out how to use sudo? :)
04:08 < bomb> you type s, u, d and o
04:08 < bomb> then the command you want to run, after a space
04:08 < rypervenche> bomb: I want to use sudo. "sudo sudo". Got it :)
04:09 < bomb> rypervenche: i always use `sudo sudo sudo sudo sudo sudo sudo sudo ...` to make it real secure :)
04:10 < rypervenche> He's the hero we deserve...
04:10  * saulosneto lmao
04:13 < jml2> where are the kali users tonite?
04:13 < Psi-Jack> IN their channel.
04:13 < jml2> lets talk crap about Mr Robot! LOL
04:13 < Psi-Jack> No thanks.
04:13 < syb0rg> in #security jml2
04:13 < Psi-Jack> Nah, real #security people use ParrotSec
04:14 < jml2> i need to find a vpn that is not blacklisted so I can watch free American tv...
04:14 < Psi-Jack> WAAAAAY unacceptable topic.
04:14 < jml2> there's nothing but the cbc here..
04:14 < jml2> hahahahhaa
04:15 < syb0rg> jml2, you could make your own. Don't choose a major server provider or it probably won't work as they will have the IP range blacklisted
04:15 < rypervenche> And yet they're talking about it. :/
04:15 < syb0rg> I'll stop =P
04:15 < pnbeast> I installed kali and now when I start nethack, my terminal converts into a networkmangler gui unless there's a gridbug on the screen.  What window manager should I install?
04:15 < jml2> syb0rg, i have, and they're blacklisted (my own dedicated hosting too)
04:16 < jml2> syb0rg, ovh in particular..
04:17 < Psi-Jack> Again, off-topic...
04:17 < pnbeast> [R], we just canceled your subscription to the Saturday Evening Post.  I hope you're not upset.
04:17 < jml2> pnbeast, someone earlier was asking for  help on "linpus" ... the "I send you a quote" distribution...
04:17 < [R]> pnbeast: electronic or paper?
04:17 < pnbeast> [R], paper.  We wanted to drag you into the 20th century.
04:17 < [R]> pnbeast: lol
04:18 < saltlake> Hi, which linux is the easiest to learn and use at home?
04:18 < Psi-Jack> saltlake: Any major distro.
04:18 < [R]> saltlake: distrowatch has a list of major dists
04:18 < syb0rg> saltlake, ubuntu
04:18 < syb0rg> but  I am biased
04:18 < Psi-Jack> Everyone's biased. :p
04:19 < [R]> something something electronic something something potential something something
04:19 < pnbeast> saltlake, are you sure you wouldn't like to learn it and use it at Starbucks?  It would be much better, there.
04:19 < triceratux> saltlake: xubuntu 18.04 ftw
04:21 < stephen77> test
04:21 < stephen77> Yay fixed it
04:21 < syb0rg> stephen77, no, it's still broken
04:22 < stephen77> saltlake, Ubuntu or Linux Mint
04:22 < stephen77> ;(
04:22 < pnbeast> stephen77, if you have something useful to say, why don't you test by saying that, instead of noise?
04:22 < stephen77> pnbeast Because I was stupid
04:23  * pnbeast tries to figure out how to argue and mutters silently.
04:23 < djph> pnbeast: just agree that he's stupid, and move on.
04:24 < trui> hellos
04:24 < autopsy> Hi.
04:24  * trui tries to swap alt and ctrl keys and fails
04:24 < trui> https://hastebin.com/atocoleref.nginx
04:25 < trui> the left ones are swapped but the right ones arent.
04:25 < trui> :(
04:25 < djph> they are, iirc, recognized as separate keys .
04:26 < syb0rg> you remember correctly djph
04:26 < dogbert2> hey djph...got the USB serial to TTL UART cable today...(adafruit Silicon Labs CP210x USB to UART Bridge (COM4)) <windows 7> <-> libre computer
04:28 < trui> or sorry, my right ctrl works as alt but my left alt is still alt. so would something like add mod2 work then?
04:28 < dogbert2> nice thing is it keeps the COM port the same between inserts or power cycles (unlike a PL2303 serial chipset)
04:28  * trui tries
04:30 < [R]> dogbert2: or you could juse use a sane os...
04:31 < dogbert2> LOL...
04:32 < dogbert2> windows 7 works fine as a host OS...
04:32 < [R]> if you say so
04:32 < AOL_> get out
04:33 < stephen77> If you're only using it as a host OS, why not use Linux as the host and virtualize windows
04:33 < pnbeast> Sure, if by "host OS" you mean "a place to run Excel so my employees can share big lists of text with each other".
04:33 < CuriousMind> Hi can someone help me create two partitions? I don't know what I'm doing here
04:33 < stevendale> Hi o/
04:33 < [R]> CuriousMind: just use gparted... its not rocket science
04:33 < AOL_> hi stevendale
04:33 < stevendale> How to use swap as real memory
04:34 < stevendale> Pls help
04:34 < AOL_> what, as in for your brain?
04:34 < CuriousMind> [R]: I'm instructed to use fdisk
04:34 < [R]> CuriousMind: "instructed"?
04:34 < CuriousMind> [R]: I'm a student
04:34 < [R]> CuriousMind: if you're doing homework, and having problem, you should consult your book and/or teacher
04:35 < CuriousMind> [R]: Yes I know, but I wanna get this done before I come to class cause I'm already behind
04:35 < syb0rg> CuriousMind, the easiest linux program for that is probably gparted.
04:35 < AOL_> CuriousMind: `man fdisk`
04:35 < dogbert2> hehehe
04:35 < [R]> that sounds quite unfortunate for you...
04:35 < syb0rg> CuriousMind, if you are going to need to work in the terminal, might as well learn parted instead
04:35 < stevendale> Just do it with gparted
04:35 < AOL_> i think the idea here is that he needs to learn fdisk
04:36 < pnbeast> CuriousMind, that said, if you're in school and can't figure out fdisk, you should drop out.
04:36 < stevendale> They can't tell the difference
04:36 < stevendale> Remove bash history after
04:36 < [R]> pnbeast: burn
04:36 < CuriousMind> Ok thanks
04:36 < trui> any idea of what the keycode for the right alt would be? i'm running xmodmap -pke and doing trial and error changing whatever references alt or meta to ctrl. i'm using the logitech k120 if that makes a difference/anyone knows.
04:37 < pnbeast> What do you mean?  I was saving him years of torture and tuition fees.
04:37 < syb0rg> lol stevendale. Fair, but if they are checking your bash history it might be suspicious if it has been deleted. Maybe just edit it?
04:37 < [R]> trui: alt and ctrl are modifiers...
04:37 < stevendale> good point syb0rg
04:39 < dogbert2> hehehehe
04:39 < trui> what does that mean in terms of my .Xmodmap? i'm clearing mod1, so is there a mod2 that i should be clearing as well before changing stuff?
04:44 < trui> okay, seems the right alt does fall under mod2. *tried xmodmap -pm* i'm slowly figuring this out. should be able to fix it now
04:52  * sauvin resumes hurling abuse on erlang
05:09 < Psi-Jack> Just about got all my VM's re-adjusted to use cloud-init. Muahaha
05:09 < stevendale> Hi
05:09 < stevendale> Battlecruiser operational
05:09 < stevendale> Nuclear launch detected
05:13 < jml2> Kim Jung Un is sick of Linux RedStar, so he had a summit with south korea just recently..   practically no entertainment in such a communist country mwhahahaa
05:13  * jml2 "offtopic" hides XDXD
05:13 < jml2> must get my distros from Trump Country! mwhahahahah
05:14 < jml2> yep I know off-topic XD
05:17 < Alystair> so I'm thinking of finally trying out linux properly - but there are so many distros. Is there a recommended location that compares the various actively developed ones?
05:19 < jml2> Alystair, not sure what you mean, but there's something called distrowatch.com --- I think it now has a comparison link feature to compare distro side by side
05:19 < Psi-Jack> Alystair: All major distros. Fedora, openSUSE, CentOS, Debian
05:20 < Alystair> someone mentioned Arch and Void - so I will look into those as well
05:20 < jml2> ( "To compare the software in this project to the software available in other distributions, please see our Compare Packages page." )
05:20 < Psi-Jack> Alystair: Do not use Arch or void, they are not newbie good.
05:20 < stevendale> Use Windows
05:20 < stevendale> It's newbie good
05:20 < Alystair> bring on the pain.
05:21 < stevendale> I'm not wrong though
05:21 < stevendale> You pay with your privacy
05:21 < Psi-Jack> Major distros are better to first understand.
05:21 < stevendale> It gives you ease of use
05:21 < stevendale> :P
05:21 < jml2> Alystair, it's impossible to try something at first and then make an immediate judgement on it.. the Linux ecosphere has really gotten user friendly imho (and "rock stable") just the last couple years..
05:21 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: You can stop now.
05:21 < stephen77> True, you can't have configuration problems when all you get is BSODs
05:21 < jml2> Alystair, even though I've been using it for over 10..
05:21 < Alystair> yeah I've been using windows 7 for a while now, doing random remote activities via SSH and what have you
05:22 < jml2> Alystair, you using virtualbox?
05:22 < Alystair> yessir
05:22 < jml2> Alystair, ok that's good
05:22 < jml2> Alystair, stick with it, because it is also avail on linux...
05:22 < stevendale> Let's bring back kernel 3.2, back when Wine 1.4 was a thing
05:22 < Psi-Jack> In Linux, we have better than virtualbox.
05:23 < stevendale> In Linux you have QEMU with passthrough and near native performance
05:23 < jml2> Alystair, so you're not so stupid after-all... some people don't even know what virtualbox is and think they need a physical CD to use Linux... albeit there's "iso" everywhere.. most people I know use the iso to transfer to usb...
05:23 < Alystair> there are only a few things I'd need windows for - the adobe CS suite and potentially some games I help test
05:23 < jml2> Alystair, (usb-iso boot installer)
05:23 < Alystair> I've been involved in tech for a while, do you find real novices still end up on IRC these days? o_O
05:24 < stevendale> Alystair, Me too, some old 16-bit+32-bit hybrid arch games still aren't cutting it in Wine
05:24 < Alystair> then again I've seen the sort of questions asked in #html so ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
05:24 < jml2> Alystair, always... and you can thank Mr Robot for that..
05:24 < stevendale> And other 32-bit games that require a CD to run
05:24 < Alystair> I've haven't had a CD drive in... 6 years?
05:24 < jml2> Alystair, bunch of noobs who never touched linux in their life think "Kali" is something special... you know because that TV show Mr Robot features it..
05:24 < stevendale> :P
05:24 < stevendale> Alystair, Mech Warrior & Age of Empires
05:24 < Alystair> I have an external USB CD drive that I've used.. maybe 3 times
05:25 < jml2> Alystair, poke poke.. you dont need a CD .. you could use win32imager to drop the iso to usb...
05:25 < jml2> Alystair, and your usb is now the installer...
05:25 < Alystair> look the reason I want to try linux isn't games - it's productivity. I already have a pretty nutty work flow within windows that I'd love to replicate within the amazingly customizable world of linux
05:26 < jml2> Alystair, you can definitely..
05:26 < stevendale> jml2, win32imager dropped XP
05:26 < stevendale> :(
05:26 < Alystair> the window manager options are really enticing and I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty writing configs ... anyway will look at the site suggested - ty
05:26 < jml2> stevendale, are you crossing your eyes or idolizing the Windows "XP" desktop baffoonie
05:26 < jml2> lol
05:26  * AOL_ finds it unsettling how easily people are influenced by TV
05:26 < stevendale> jml2, Is there a both option :P
05:28 < jml2> Alystair, the newer tombraider just came out about 2 weeks ago for linux..
05:28 < jml2> Alystair, some great games (through valve's steam shop)
05:28 < jml2> Alystair, though I don't play games that much..
05:28 < Alystair> I have no time for games
05:29 < Alystair> only sexy workflows
05:29  * aBound flowing 
05:29 < jml2> Alystair, are you an RMS GNU man or a Linux man?
05:29 < jml2> Alystair, do you support the GNU slashy slash ?
05:30 < Alystair> isn't one a hypothetical? I really don't know much about that
05:30 < jml2> Alystair, the GNU/ has you :P
05:30 < jml2> yep he's a noob :)
05:30 < AOL_> if you take out GNU from Linux, you wont have much of a system left
05:30 < AOL_> GNU software is used all over the place
05:31 < jml2> those fsf/gnu people don't know what to call it, they call it strictly GNU and GNU/Linux...
05:31 < AOL_> GNU/Systemd/Linux
05:33 < jml2> i wonder how well gnuix is currently in development
05:33 < jml2> maybe eventually when they have that well developed enough those camp folks would stop using GNU/Linux XD
05:33 < yuken> Psi-Jack, timers worked, woo~
05:33  * jml2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guix_System_Distribution this one
05:33 < Psi-Jack> yuken: systemd FTW!
05:34 < jml2> ( "Guix System Distribution (abbreviated GuixSD[5]) is a Linux distribution built around the GNU Guix package manager.")
05:34 < AOL_> jml2: i have not heard of that, is it a new GNU OS?  last thing i tried was GNU/Hurd and i found it broken
05:34 < jml2> AOL_, yep
05:34 < jml2> AOL_, build around their 100% GNU GNU GNU package manager..
05:34 < jml2> AOL_, cuz they couldn't figure out how to build one for 30 years..
05:34 < jml2> lol
05:34 < AOL_> which kernel, hurd?
05:34 < Alystair> that was what I was saying why did you say I was incorrect
05:35 < AOL_> i may check it out :)
05:35 < jml2> it's kind of mentioned on that link.. seems to be a hybrid..
05:35 < jml2> i suppose eventually they want it to be "kernel agnostic" lol
05:35 < AOL_> i wonder what their stance is on systemd
05:35 < jml2> which the Debian project strives to relatively well I guess...
05:36 < jml2> AOL_, f no..
05:36 < AOL_> debian is cool like that
05:36 < stevendale> B..but
05:36 < stevendale> XP is cool too
05:36 < jml2> AOL_, what does that have to do with anyithng? it's opensource/gpl..
05:36 < jml2> I should rather say "free software" :
05:37 < AOL_> well even though GNUs Not Unix, the UNIX philosophy is still alive
05:37 < jml2> AOL_, UNIX is a moniker on the term Multics..
05:38 < AOL_> you know what i am getting at
05:38 < AOL_> wihtout being too pedantic
05:38 < jml2> AOL_, what you farted?
05:38 < jml2> AOL_, you did a posix burp?
05:38 < Alystair> hmmm looks like I should choose a distro based on ease of toying with modifying the desktop/windowing env
05:38 < AOL_> no, i had a simple curiosity about their stance on systemd
05:39 < AOL_> don't get your knickers in a twist damnit
05:39 < trui> woo. i figured it out. til about xev. it's super helpful in determining keycodes.
05:39 < jml2> Alystair, no need, to, you can use "xinitrc" /startx behaviour on any Linux distro :))
05:39 < Alystair> neat
05:39 < jml2> Alystair, you can create a non-gui startup, and then manually start the gui from a user login..
05:39 < AOL_> Alystair: the DE is usually distro agnostic for the most part
05:39 < jml2> Alystair, this is old "startx" behaviour..
05:40 < iflema> jml2: advanced behaviour
05:40 < Alystair> I have some experience with tmux but not much in terms of desktop UI other than whatever the raspberry pi has
05:40 < AOL_> jml2: i think that is the only way to start a window manager or desktop
05:40 < jml2> trui, your "scan keycords" in X11 differe than plain text terminal tty1...
05:40 < Alystair> I like the idea of a window manager that attempts to use 100% of the space
05:40 < jml2> trui, keep that in mind..
05:41 < jml2> trui, the basic a-z 0-9 are the same, but other keys (meta keys) differ in their usage, however I believe this is going to change in the future.. probably already has...
05:42 < AOL_> Alystair: with regards to choosing distros, a lot of them are either debian or redhat derived, if you get familiar with debian based systems you wont be as familiar with rh based systemd
05:42 < AOL_> systems*
05:42 < jml2> AOL_, systemd is the default on debian, it appears you never used it :)
05:42 < jml2> lol
05:42 < jml2> AOL_, its been on debian for a few years already..
05:42 < AOL_> that was a typo jml2
05:43 < AOL_> i use systemd every day
05:43 < jml2> AOL_, too late XD
05:43 < trui> you mean what works with xterm may not work with a plain text terminal? jml2. (sorry, i'm fairly new to linux)
05:43 < jml2> everyday you say.. like toast out of a toaster..
05:43 < jml2> trui, yeah.. because the X11 "--> it is called "Xmodmap" and not "modmap" ... only X applications would see your "mapping" properly..
05:44 < trui> and that would make sense, though i don't think i'll be dealing with plain text terminals in my laptop and if i do, i can always use vim
05:44 < AOL_> jml2: well i only use GNU/Linux and Android Linux, yes like toast out of a toaster
05:44 < trui> but thanks for the tip
05:44 < jml2> trui, if you run the "scan" tool for keycodes in "plain text" terminal -- it is likely to differ..
05:44 < trui> *vi/vim
05:44 < jml2> trui, however there is effort iirc to have this problem "integrated" so that there is only 1 keymap...
05:44 < trui> not in/on my laptop. argh. i cant type. lol...
05:44 < jml2> trui, not sure on the current status on that, but its good to keep a heads up on this
05:44 < trui> yeah
05:45 < trui> i think if i were ever to use a plain text terminal, i'd be using vi anyways and not emacs, so it should work out okay.
05:46 < trui> why i was changing my xmodmap in the first place was to swap alt/ctrl for emacs
05:46 < jml2> tehehe "emacs"  almost sounds like you are using a "mac" :)
05:47 < jml2> those apple boys love to be different with their alt-ctl keys :))
05:47 < trui> or macarthy lisp ;)
05:47 < trui> (actually not sure what the mac means in emacs but imma pretend it means macarthy)
05:47 < ryouma> not that but idk either
05:47 < AOL_> Alystair: if you are using GNU/Linux from the console as jml2 suggested, without going directly to a graphical desktop, and then run xinit /path/to/wm or startx from there, you can also run more than one desktopn environment at the same time, and switch between them if you wanted
05:47 < ryouma> but emacs lisp and common lisp both derive from it
05:48 < jml2> trui, the functionality of "Alt" on a macintosh behaves like a "ctrl" on a non-mac..
05:48 < jml2> trui, so when you spoke fast about swapping alt/ctrl for *macs  XD .. it almost sounded like that :)
05:48 < trui> ah, hehe
05:48 < jml2> trui, some users do not like this mapping and they even change it in their "macos" :)
05:49 < ryouma> i am confused about /dev/disk/by-uuid.  if i just created partitions on a new drive, there is nothing there for that drive.  is the uuid referring to a filesystem instance?  IF SO, then when it /is/ formatted with an fs, why is it a symlink to the RAW partition and not the device mapper partition on which the fs was created?
05:49 < trui> now ideally i'd have a space cadet keyboard ;) but alas
05:49  * ryouma brags that he used a symbolics
05:49 < jml2> Alystair, yeah you can run multiple instances of X11 --- you can even have something called "multiseat"  where a 2nd keyboard, and 2nd mouse can be tied to another X instance because user #2 wants to use the other monitor at the same time..
05:50 < jml2> Alystair, can't do this on Winbloze :)
05:50 < trui> nice
05:50  * ryouma says it was dumb of them to keep doing their own hardware
05:50 < trui> that works too
05:50 < jml2> ryouma, the "uuid" is the filesystem uuid..
05:51 < jml2> ryouma, it only shows up after the kernel scans a partition table and looks at the filesystem headers... the filesystem headers have unique uuids...
05:51 < jml2> ryouma, no mounting is needed for "lsblk<enter>" to show what uuids have been seen by the kernel..
05:51 < jml2> (lsblk -f << with -f shows uuid)
05:51 < ryouma> jml2: ok thanks.  so if you do a new fs you get a new uuid.  i understand that part.  but the part that confuses me now is that you don't create an fs on a raw partition if you are doing device mapping.
05:52 < jml2> ryouma, uh... what do you mean "device mapping" ?
05:52 < ryouma> so by-uuid is ignoring the level of indirection.  /dev/mapper contains the partition that mkfs uses.
05:52 < jml2> ryouma, you mean doing something like -> mke2fs aflatfile.raw.bin ?
05:52 < ryouma> nono
05:53 < ryouma> if you are using something like luks or lvm
05:53 < jml2> ryouma, hold on a second
05:53 < jml2> ryouma, /dev/mapper is something that point to um... not partitions..
05:53 < jml2> ryouma, but an abstract of partition resources..
05:53 < ryouma> yes
05:53 < ryouma> and that is what you create the fs on
05:53 < jml2> ryouma, so what you see in there are constructs to give you a "virtual device"...
05:54 < jml2> ryouma, yeah so ?
05:54 < jml2> ryouma, it's the same thing..
05:54 < ryouma> yes, and you should not be interacting with the raw device
05:54 < jml2> ryouma, the "dm-2" module of the kernel needs to scan and have mapped the physical parittions..
05:54 < ryouma> but by-uuid is a symlink to the raw device not the dm
05:54 < jml2> ryouma, the physical partitions wouldn't be holding the filesystem uuid signature at the start of the partitions of course because that's not where they're located..
05:55 < ryouma> correct
05:55 < jml2> ryouma, only have "dm-2" has done its scanning and it has mapped physical devices, then you will see the uuid..
05:55 < ryouma> yet by-uuid points to the raw partition
05:55 < jml2> ryouma, no
05:56 < ryouma> oh, perhaps i skipped a step.  maybe i created the fs on the raw one by mistake then if you are saying now.
05:56 < ryouma> no*
05:56 < jml2> ryouma, you're assuming that /dev/mapper/* things are pointers to raw partitions..
05:56 < jml2> ryouma, that's a fallacy..
05:56 < ryouma> i am not assuming that
05:56 < ryouma> itym falsehood
05:56 < jml2> ryouma, the proper terminology to use is "block device"..
05:57 < jml2> ryouma, and /dev/mapper would be pointing to these virtual "block" devices..
05:57 < ryouma> ima just check that i did it right before i continue this
05:57 < jml2> ryouma, its important to use proper terminology..
05:57 < jml2> ryouma, :)
05:57 < jml2> ryouma, once your "block device" is "ready", you can put a filesystem on it..
05:58 < ryouma> jml2: i am not lacking in the understanding that youa re teaching
05:58 < jml2> ryouma, you'll need to let hte kernel's dm-2 do the mapping work to "prepare" the block device for you in /dev/mapper..
05:58 < ryouma> you can stop now :)
05:58 < ryouma> thanks :)
05:58 < jml2> ryouma, you should know the terminology because 2.
05:59 < jml2> ryouma, there's something callled PART_UUID << and this is something different than the "filesystem uuid".
05:59 < jml2> ryouma, so don't mix the two.
05:59  * jml2 :)
05:59 < jml2> lol
06:00 < jml2> ( /dev/disk/by-partuuid/  )
06:00 < jml2> watch out..
06:00 < ryouma> why is that so sparse?
06:00 < ryouma> when are partuuids created?
06:00 < jml2> "ryouma> yet by-uuid points to the raw partition"
06:01 < jml2> partuuids are GPT uuids..
06:01 < jml2> they are only significant within the gpt table..
06:01 < ryouma> oh gpt
06:01 < ryouma> ok good to confirm
06:01 < PowerPCM_> They been ridin dirty
06:01 < jml2> and you can use them in fstab, but practically nobody uses them..
06:02 < jml2> PART_UUID=
06:02 < jml2> ./PARTUUID/ rather..
06:04 < stevendale> Battery 0: design capacity 7800 mAh, last full capacity 5295 mAh = 67%
06:04 < Alystair> oooo package managers
06:05  * Alystair is learning all kinds of stuff
06:05 < Alystair> there's life beyond apt-get/yum
06:06 < stevendale> Alystair, Source code, ./configure, make -j2, make check, make install
06:07 < Alystair> yeah but I don't want to be hand holding my system for most stuff - one or two speciality applications I guess that would make sense but I rather have things pretty automated and relatively seemless
06:07 < Alystair> more time getting stuff done, less futzing about to be able to get things done to begin with
06:08 < jml2> Alystair, great page to bookmark-> v
06:08 < jml2> Alystair, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman/Rosetta
06:08 < Alystair> ty!
06:08 < jml2> Alystair, if you know the equiv of these things -> dpkg -S , dpkg -L, dpkg -l , apt-cache show, apt-get install, you can pretty much do anything..
06:08 < jml2> Alystair, :P
06:09 < jml2> rpm has the equivalent as well..
06:10 < jml2> most folks don't pay attention to using |grep bin on things like "dpkg -l <package>" and "manpage binary" (there sis a "SEE ALSO" section which hints other configuration files and binaries to use)
06:10 < jml2> that's generally a good thing to avoid looking up the net when configuring servers..
06:10 < jml2> (especially when you're offline!!!)
06:10 < jml2> mwhahaha
06:11 < sauvin> Arch ain't for the "hands off" crowd.
06:13 < WorldGenesis[v]> random question, is "sudo" pronounced "sue-doe" or "sue-do" ?
06:13 < Necrosporus> tell me live session login for ubuntu livecd please
06:13 < [R]> WorldGenesis[v]: sue doe
06:13 < WorldGenesis[v]> there's a small debate about it at work
06:13 < Necrosporus> I have logged out want to get back
06:14 < Necrosporus> WorldGenesis[v], I pronounce it as [sudo]
06:14 < justsomeguy> Well, it's substitute user do.
06:14 < sauvin> Soodoo (HOOO doo yoo think yoo are!?)
06:14 < justsomeguy> So I say 'sue do'.
06:14 < jcarpenter2> "su-doe" of course
06:14 < [R]> one of the hw guys at work... he knows of sudo and su... and the other day i ran sudo su, and it just blew his mind
06:14 < Alystair> my name is sudo su... how do you do??
06:15 < Psi-Jack> Nice. NOW I have all my home VM's running with cloud-init. :)
06:15 < justsomeguy> Why do people use sudo su when they can just sudo -I?
06:15 < Alystair> you then punch your father
06:15 < WorldGenesis[v]> su == superuser right?
06:15 < Alystair> and write a song about it
06:15 < [R]> justsomeguy: you know how hard it is to do - and a capitcla letter!?
06:15 < jcarpenter2> sudo ssudo sssudo
06:15 < justsomeguy> Substitute user. Actually, historically both.
06:15 < jcarpenter2> for the commands you *really* have to be admin for
06:15 < jcarpenter2> it's an infinite hierarchy of admins
06:15 < WorldGenesis[v]> ill do "su - root" :P
06:16 < jcarpenter2> it's very elegant, theoretically
06:16 < [R]> https://gizmodo.com/class-action-lawsuit-alleges-price-fixing-scheme-carrie-1825628236
06:16 < [R]> The suit seeks to secure a settlement for anyone in the United States who purchased a device using DRAM between July 1, 2016 and February 1, 2018.
06:16 < jcarpenter2> it was implemented in planN for natural number N
06:16 < [R]> which is basicallly everyone in the US...
06:16 < WorldGenesis[v]> 0.01 cent for everyone!
06:18 < Psi-Jack> 0.01 cent? Hmmm.. That's far from 0.01 dollars.
06:18 < justsomeguy> I bet that gets as much traction as the class actions against intel for spectre.
06:19 < Psi-Jack> That whole class action suit against Intel is nonsensical stupidity.
06:19 < jml2> Psi-Jack is still mining hard with his cloud VMs for .01 dollars everyboday!
06:19 < Psi-Jack> wut?
06:19 < jml2> lol
06:20 < jml2> bashcloud-init!
06:20 < jml2> must use scripts to qemu binary!
06:20 < jml2> mwhahah
06:20 < Aph3x-WL> i vote everyone involved in that lawsuit be put down
06:21 < Psi-Jack> jml2: Nope. Proxmox VE is actually generating a metadata iso that the cloud-inits within the VM.
06:21 < stevendale> I vote every user of Linux be given one chance to switch to Windows or be gunned down, straight through the head
06:22 < Psi-Jack> ...
06:22 < ayecee> stevendale: please don't use such language here.
06:22 < stevendale> ayecee, o/ So no English?
06:22 < Aph3x-WL> shhh
06:23 < ayecee> language involving graphic descriptions of killing people by gunfire.
06:23 < jcarpenter2> no wer speaken englishshc
06:24 < Psi-Jack> How many people have been drinking tonight?
06:24 < ayecee> all of them
06:24 < sauvin> Also: Windows-centric fanboi-ism won't get a lot of traction here.
06:24 < jcarpenter2> i've been drinking tea
06:24 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Well... it might, But not the desired kind.
06:24 < stevendale> sauvin, What's traction mean
06:25 < jcarpenter2> from yesterday
06:25 < pnbeast> Why does anyone here not have him ignored?  How long has he been doing this schtick?
06:25 < uplime> Psi-Jack | How many people have been drinking tonight?
06:25 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: He's actually been doing this nonsense for days. FYI.
06:25 < uplime> it helps me cope with the stupidity
06:26 < stevendale> But I stop when you tell me to, until the next day o/ So that makes it okay right?
06:26 < sauvin> Hrm... seems to me I still have a bottle of PGA hiding out, maybe it's finally time to open it.
06:26 < ayecee> as a rebound effect it makes the stupidity harder to cope with
06:26 < uplime> :D
06:26 < sauvin> stevendale, how about this: next time I see any Windows-centricism wafting from your general direction, we'll arrange for you to spend a lot of time in some more Windows-friendly channel.
06:27 < stevendale> sauvin, I guess I'll have to be an Apple fanboi then...
06:27 < sauvin> I'm guessing the whole concept of "spirit of the law" would elude you.
06:27 < uplime> how about just don't be a fan boy at all?
06:29  * sauvin actually liked xXx (a vin Diesel movie) for the line: "Don't be a dick, Dick."
06:30 < ayecee> a shocking admission
06:30 < sauvin> Head's in a strange place. Learning erlang and finding its string- and file-handling capabilities a bit wanting
06:30 < uplime> the irccloud guys love erlang
06:31 < uplime> thats what they used for most of the stuff iirc
06:31 < stevendale> That and Swift
06:31 < stevendale> For the iOS app
06:31 < jml2> I know a man who invented a revolutionary database. His name was Dick Pick.
06:31 < jml2> true story. :) (see wikipedia XD)
06:32 < ayecee> could have gone by richard pick, but who would remember that
06:32 < jml2> or maybe his name was Pick Dick.. geez i dunnah remembah XD
06:32 < sauvin> Oh, erlang most definitely has some interesting strengths.
06:33 < jml2> ("The Pick operating system (often called just "the Pick system" or simply "Pick")[1] is a demand-paged, multiuser, virtual memory, time-sharing computer operating system based around a unique MultiValue database. Pick is used primarily for business data processing. It is named after one of its developers, Dick Pick.")
06:33 < jml2> hawhaw
06:33 < justsomeguy> Do you think his friends looked at him with questioning eyes after seeing james bond together?
06:33 < jml2> i've known about that story for quite some time...
06:34 < jml2> stevendale, there are power apps out there using swift...
06:35 < jml2> stevendale, despite this framework from apple, it's possible a good number of such apps are already in oss repositories XD
06:36 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmm.. Been a very good productive weekend. Ceph SSD Cache-Tiering, cloud-init. Now, to get salt provisioning running. :)
06:36 < jml2> stevendale, i bet you don't know that you are able to print thanks to 'em apple devs XD
06:36 < jml2> stevendale, "cups" is maintained by apple..
06:36 < jml2> stevendale, yes, cups..
06:38 < [R]> apple bought it
06:38 < stevendale> Does every OS use cups
06:39 < jml2> stevendale, my coffee machine uses cups.
06:39 < Psi-Jack> No.
06:39 < jml2> stevendale, I peepee
06:39 < jml2> stevendale, is the protocol...
06:39 < jml2> stevendale, and all platforms use ipp...
06:39 < jml2> stevendale, including phones :)
06:40 < stevendale> jml2, I should make a coffee
06:40 < jml2> stevendale, I peepee in your cofee :)
06:40 < stevendale> Haven't had one in several months
06:40  * jml2 hides :))
06:40 < stevendale> jml2, I wonder what the police would say if I told them I found your DNA in my coffee
06:41 < stevendale> Probably "get a day job"
06:41 < jml2> stevendale, on saturday? :)
06:41 < stevendale> Sunday here, pays better
06:41 < stevendale> :)
06:41 < jml2> stevendale, linux here 17+ years ;-)
06:41 < justsomeguy> stevendale: Coffee is great, coffee is good. Try a pour over with the black label bustelo espresso. Cheap and good.
06:41 < jml2> stevendale, i'm too smart
06:41 < jml2> stevendale, I was happier before all these distros came out... arch, ubuntu...
06:42 < justsomeguy> Slackware user?
06:42 < jml2> stevendale, i will never switch.. never!
06:42 < jml2> me debianner..
06:42 < jml2> i reported bug reports for years.. im not gunna switch my main platform any time soon..
06:42 < stevendale> Was Apple or Microsoft founded first
06:43 < jml2> i believe it was ms
06:43 < jml2> they both founded around 77-79...
06:43 < stevendale> With the release of MS-DOS jml2? o/
06:43 < jml2> ms did xenix, and cloned CP/M
06:44 < jml2> actually ms-dos was much later.. they had other operating systems before..
06:44 < justsomeguy> One great thing about Debian is the social contract, and the fact that you know they're not going to disappear in 5 years.
06:44 < stevendale> Yeah justsomeguy
06:44 < legend> morning\
06:45 < stevendale> Plus when it goes from oldoldstable to EOL justsomeguy, you can use gcc and compile stuff
06:46 < justsomeguy> I would probably just keep a few archives of those 10 DVD copies of their entire repositories for the stable releases.
06:47 < stevendale> IIRC wheezy got meltdown patches
06:49 < jml2> wheezy is still lts? i think support for it is ending around sept this year
06:49 < Psi-Jack> LTS is LTS, it doesn't stop being LTS.
06:50 < Sitri> But it still eventually stops getting support
06:50 < Psi-Jack> That part is true.
06:50 < jml2> may 31st .. yep it was this year..
06:50 < Psi-Jack> But then, every release of Debian is basically LTS, unlike Ubuntu.
06:50 < jml2> good for another 32 days tehehe
06:50 < stevendale> https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
06:50 < jml2> and debian's lts is 2 years...
06:50 < stevendale> 31st May
06:51 < jml2> i'm on testing wtf do i care about lts lol
06:51 < jml2> never have to change my repos tehehe
06:51 < jml2> apt update, upgrade, and leave my settings intact..
06:51 < stevendale> Why not sid
06:52 < jml2> screw snapd and all that flak...
06:52 < stevendale> :P
06:52 < jml2> sid is too breakable....
06:52 < jml2> i do get hiccups now and then and i'd say about 15% time i have to fix things when updates do go well..
06:52 < jml2> (package mismatch, etc.. virtual packages cannot finding packages XD)
06:53 < jml2> ./when updates do not go well./ --
06:53 < jml2> arch's removal arguments to pacman are much more "strictly" applied and can do a bruteforce of installs...
06:54 < jml2> which makes it more ideal as a rolling distribution...
06:54 < jml2> you could tell pacman to simply re-install any package forcibly with ease..
06:54 < jml2> debian on the other hand doesn't work this way with apt by default..
06:54 < jml2> it'll whine and cry until it is happy..
06:55 < jml2> gotta reboot for something..
06:55 < stevendale> jml2, And windows leaves heaps of junk behind when you uninstall stuff, due to that abomination of a registry
06:56 < iflema> stevendale: they have standards issues... probably one of those...
06:57 < iflema> bit like americans
06:57 < stevendale> o/
06:58 < stevendale> Glad I am Australian
06:58 < uplime> bit like everyone
06:59 < stevendale> We ride kangaroos everywhere
06:59 < iflema> if not fight them
06:59 < uplime> did you fight in the emu war?
07:00 < iflema> or eat them
07:00 < iflema> eww
07:02 < mango_99> anyone know why I might be getting "iconv: illegal input sequence at position 32735" when I run iconv and overwrite input file with -o but not when output file is a new one? maybe a bug
07:02 < iflema> uplime: I can run. They can run faster. I have had a battle with a emu and a fence to the rescue.
07:02 < uplime> lol
07:04 < mango_99> iconv -f GBK -t UTF-8 file -o file gives error but not file > file
07:07 < sauvin> ah, iconv, I remember that dog, and NOT fondly.
07:08 < mango_99> lol
07:08 < well_laid_lawn> man iconv has an example down the bottom
07:09 < mango_99> yes i can get it to work by using stdout rather than its -o i just find it very odd that it outputs gibberish. would report bug but i cant find anywhere to
07:10 < mango_99> well; not gibberish but some of my files were gibberish. just failed halfway through source files and I couldn't figure out why it stopped compiling just after changing encoding
07:14 < dannylee> root is it
07:15 < dannylee> its a great day for root
07:15 < ayecee> also maybe some leaves
07:15 < dannylee> lets smoke one
07:15 < uplime> way ahead of you
07:18 < sauvin> echo $(for a in *; do cut -d' ' -f 3; done) | sort -u # dinner time!
07:19 < uplime> i hate that line so much
07:19 < ayecee> doesn't seem like that would have any output
07:20 < sauvin> How would you change it?
07:20 < ayecee> since a isn't referenced in the cut
07:20 < sauvin> Oh, hell... forgot an "$a" in there somewhere.
07:20 < uplime> for a in ./*; do cut -d' ' -f 3 "$a"; done | sort -u
07:20 < ayecee> yeah, better
07:21 < sauvin> Yup. That's actually what I DID do, teach me to repeat something manually.
07:21 < uplime> lol
07:21 < uplime> tbh i don't like the | sort -u either, but i don't have a better way to write that
07:22 < sauvin> Field 3 of these files contains a keyword, some used many thousands of times. I just want to get a list of unique keywords used
07:22 < uplime> oh cut operates on the file contents doesn't it
07:23 < ayecee> yup
07:23 < uplime> for some reason i was thinking you were sorting the filenames
07:23 < uplime> nmd, i have no issues with the | sort -u
07:23 < sauvin> I didn't feel like figuring out awk again, and was too lazy to perl it when cut is already there.
07:23 < uplime> im just sleepy
07:26 < Mutter> Good Morning from Saudi Arabia
07:32 < sauvin> Make a note: sort can overwhelm memory-constrained systems.
07:32 < uplime> its probably keeping it all in memory
07:32 < uplime> i wonder if they all do that
07:33 < sauvin> sort would logically have to.
07:33 < pnbeast> Of course not.
07:35 < uplime> i don't know sort (or cut well enough for that matter) to say either way
07:36 < pnbeast> You can trade run time and memory usage for sorting.
07:38 < stevendale> ops stevendale trolling
07:41 < sauvin> ops stevendale trying ops' patience
07:42 < stevendale> You seem to be very patient sauvin ;)
07:42 < sauvin> Looks like we're going to find out just HOW patient.
07:43 < stevendale> I'm not looking forward to that :P
07:43 < pnbeast> I am.
07:44 < LiftLeft> I expanded an aws instance volume. The instance that I used to expand the volume says the partition fill the whole. But when I use the instance I the volume to work on, it I don't have that space?
07:44 < LiftLeft> what's going on?
07:44 < LiftLeft> help
07:47 < sauvin> LiftLeft, that might be a question for the AWS folk.
07:50  * sauvin winds up perling his sort -u problem
07:51 < Psi-Jack> LiftLeft: What? Making very little sense there.
07:57 < AOL_> https://image.ibb.co/doq0Oc/kali.png
07:58 < AOL_> Elite.
07:58  * sauvin guffaws
07:59 < LiftLeft> on instance "A" cfdisk says that boot partition is 120GB. When I use instance "B" it says I only have 70GB and says I don't have enough space when I try to do stuff.
07:59 < LiftLeft> Psi-Jack ^
07:59 < Alystair> I was originally going to pick either gentoo or arch but seeing that kali has a cool dragon as default wallpaper I'm going with that instead
08:00 < Alystair> :V
08:00 < Psi-Jack> LiftLeft: "partition?"
08:00 < AOL_> 120GB boot partition? wtf
08:00 < Psi-Jack> I'm betting improper vocabulary.
08:00 < LiftLeft> yes
08:01 < uplime> AOL_: bootloaders are expected to do all of the things now!
08:01 < Psi-Jack> LiftLeft: Wanna try again with proper vocabulary that makes sense? :)
08:01 < AOL_> GNU/grub OS
08:01 < AOL_> UEFI linux
08:02 < sauvin> Alystair, you'll find that Kali isn't for newbies, and that it's almost utterly useless as a general purpose desktop.
08:02 < LiftLeft> on instance "A" cfdisk says that the main partition is 120GB. When I use instance "B" it says the main partition only has 70GB and says I don't have enough space when I try to do stuff.
08:02 < uplime> iirc using apt-get resulted in situations where it could break the os
08:02 < Psi-Jack> LiftLeft: OKay. And?
08:03 < sauvin> uplime, just booting Kali resulted in situations where the OS broke for me.
08:03 < LiftLeft> I'm trying to get it to use the other 50GB
08:03 < uplime> :D
08:03 < Psi-Jack> LiftLeft: Did you resize the EBS volume for instance B's /dev/sda1 attachment?
08:03 < sauvin> LiftLeft, what is your understanding of the term "instance" in this context?
08:03 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: AWS stuff. :)
08:03 < LiftLeft> sauvin: yes
08:04 < LiftLeft> Psi-Jack: yes
08:04 < sauvin> LiftLeft, that wasn't a "yes/no" question.
08:04 < LiftLeft> misread
08:04 < LiftLeft> sorry
08:04 < Psi-Jack> LiftLeft: You still have to resize the partition itself, and growfs. Have you done that part?
08:04 < uplime> sauvin: but Psi-Jack's was
08:04 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, can distinct "instances" share volumes?
08:04 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Nope.
08:04 < LiftLeft> Psi-Jack: probably not
08:05 < LiftLeft> I dunno
08:05 < sauvin> In effect, then, they're completely disparate VMs?
08:05 < LiftLeft> sauvin: yes
08:05 < sauvin> LiftLeft, but you're trying to get two or more instances to share a particular "partition"?
08:06 < LiftLeft> I'm editing a vm's main volume on another vm
08:06 < Psi-Jack> LiftLeft: That part you need to do. fdisk it, show the partition table, delete it, re-create the partition table with the exact same start point and maximum ending point, reboot, then growfs /dev/xvda1
08:06 < Alystair> sauvin: I'm aware, I was taking a pot shot at the situation
08:07 < Alystair> I have no use for Kali at this time
08:07 < sauvin> Good person, Alystair.
08:07 < LiftLeft> I did this "fdisk it, show the partition table, delete it, re-create the partition table with the exact same start point and maximum ending point"
08:07 < Psi-Jack> Obviously not.
08:07 < LiftLeft> yeah I did
08:08 < LiftLeft> I didn't do the last part
08:08 < Psi-Jack> Okay. growfs is important. :)
08:10 < LiftLeft> how do I install growfs on ubuntu?
08:10 < Psi-Jack> It's already installed.
08:10 < LiftLeft> ummm
08:11 < LiftLeft> sudo: growfs: command not found
08:11 < Psi-Jack> resize2fs, excuse me. :)
08:11 < LiftLeft> so sudo resize2fs /dev/xvdf1 ?
08:11 < AOL_> i was about to say that
08:11 < Psi-Jack> If xvdf1 is the correct partition, yes.
08:12 < LiftLeft> so it should work now, right?
08:12 < Psi-Jack> df -h will show you the free space
08:13 < LiftLeft> ok
08:13 < Psi-Jack> if it's mounted, of course. :)
08:14 < AOL_> does anyone here use apparmor in particular in conjunction with qemu/kvm, if so, does it break things easily
08:14 < sauvin> Will resize2fs grow *any* FS?
08:14 < Psi-Jack> No.
08:14 < Psi-Jack> Just extX
08:14 < AOL_> i have read recommendation to use apparmor, but i don't use it at the moment
08:14 < sauvin> What FS is involved here?
08:15 < Psi-Jack> AWS defaults to ext4, usually.
08:15 < sauvin> And relying on that "default" is an assumption.
08:15  * AOL_ grunts about apparmor
08:15 < Psi-Jack> Not really, with AWS land, so much. :
08:16 < Hdphn> hi guys
08:16 < Hdphn> has anyone switched from macOS to linux? whats your experience like
08:17 < uplime> i've switched from linux to macos :/
08:17 < sauvin> Traitor.
08:17 < Psi-Jack> uplime: What are YOU doing here?
08:17 < uplime> :c
08:17 < LiftLeft> ok
08:17 < LiftLeft> it worked
08:17 < sauvin> Seriously, though, what would motivate somebody to move from Linux to Mac OS?
08:17 < AOL_> we all know Plan9 is the superior OS
08:17 < Hdphn> yea. I see most of the people switching from linux to macOS. perhaps its because of macOS apps compatibility and just works and iOS development
08:18 < Psi-Jack> LiftLeft: Normally it's better to put data on a secondary EBS volume, not use the boot volume for /everything/, FYI
08:18 < pnbeast> Hdphn, before I switched, I was overweight, drunk half the time, broke the other half and my SAT scores were low.  After I switched, I lost 50 lbs., got a job as a model for GQ and joined MENSA.  It's been pretty good.
08:18 < Hdphn> never seen anyone switching from macOS to linux. thats why asked hehe
08:18 < Hdphn> :O
08:18 < Hdphn> pnbeast: wait I am confused. you gained weight fixing linux right? and now you are on mac?
08:18 < pnbeast> No, from Mac to Linux.
08:19 < sauvin> Heh, Mensa was a pain. People walk up to you and introduce themselves as "Hi, I'm Bobbie, my IQ is 165!" It was all about the iPeen.
08:19 < Hdphn> pnbeast: oh. dont you miss the apps compatibility and just work thing on mac?
08:19  * AOL_ wants to get confused trying to use Plan 9 from Bell Labs again
08:19 < uplime> i installed ubuntu on my previous macbook, but wasn't able to authenticate against RADIUS networks for some reason, so had to use macos anyways
08:19 < sauvin> Hdphn, what, specifically, do you mean when you say "apps compatibility"?
08:19 < uplime> well, osx at the time
08:20 < uplime> Hdphn: compatability is a funny word
08:20 < pnbeast> Hdphn, no, I like the "just work" thing on Linux and the compatibility with all the UNIX software, the fact that most things that matter are actually *developed* on Linux, etc.
08:20 < uplime> and things just work (tm) on linux too
08:20 < LiftLeft> Psi-Jack: ok
08:20 < LiftLeft> I'm lazy
08:20 < uplime> pnbeast: not *all* unix software
08:20 < Hdphn> photoshop, ms office etc... xcode ... they cant run on linux ;D
08:20 < Psi-Jack> Lazy is bad for servers.
08:20 < uplime> but a lot of it!
08:20 < pnbeast> uplime is a traitor!  Stone him!
08:20 < uplime> D:
08:21 < sauvin> Hdphn, that's true enough, as far as it goes. I use FOSS workalikes with little trouble.
08:21 < AOL_> photoshop? we have the far superior GNU Image Manipulation Program
08:21 < LiftLeft> Psi-Jack: I'm doing anything important
08:21  * sauvin koffs
08:21 < stevendale> OwO
08:21 < LiftLeft> so it doesn't matter
08:21 < sauvin> Photoshop, if I were to spend the $$$ on it, would be the ONE reason I'd set up a Windows machine.
08:21 < Psi-Jack> LiftLeft: I presume these servers are public facing?
08:21 < stevendale> I have bought the full CS4, CS5 and CS6
08:21 < Psi-Jack> Oh? More Windows-centric talk? :p
08:22 < AOL_> stevendale: do you also buy every annual version of ms office?
08:22 < LiftLeft> It's a juypter notebook server
08:22 < pnbeast> stevendale, most suckers learn after their first fleecing.  What's wrong with you?
08:22 < Hdphn> macOS also has unix development environment without the fixing and maintenance of linux. right?
08:22 < stevendale> I found GIMP easier to use at first
08:22 < uplime> sauvin: if we see any more windows fanboy-ing we can arrange for you to be on a more windwos friendly channel
08:22 < Disconsented> Hdphn> not right
08:22 < uplime> Hdphn: i have no idea what that means
08:22 < stevendale> And GIMP was a lot easier than Inkscape...
08:22 < LiftLeft> that I'm using for learning machine learning
08:22 < pnbeast> Hdphn, we know, you keep bashing Linux and everyone gets all angry and shouty and such.  So far it's not working, though.  Maybe turn up the volume?
08:22 < Hdphn> why not? Disconsented
08:23 < stevendale> But mtpaint was easier than Gimp and Inkscape
08:23 < AOL_> stevendale: GIMP is raster, Inkscape is vector
08:23 < AOL_> they are for different jobs
08:23 < uplime> Hdphn: what does "macOS also has unix development environment without the fixing and maintenance of linux" mean?
08:23 < Disconsented> Because macos updates are annoying as hell and 'stable' linux distros exist
08:23 < stevendale> AOL_, Only Office 2003, 2007 & 2010 actually
08:23 < uplime> stevendale: http://jspaint.ml
08:23 < Hdphn> Disconsented: you using debian stable?
08:23 < Hdphn> debian stable is old as dinosaurs
08:23 < Disconsented> No I run arch
08:24 < Psi-Jack> Which arch?
08:24  * AOL_ cannot ascertain if stevendale is trolling or not
08:24 < Hdphn> arch isnt stable at all
08:24 < stevendale> I am thinking about getting a copy of Office XP off eBay or Gumtree AOL_
08:24 < Disconsented> I don't spending all of a minute to fix something on occasion
08:24 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: Well, it is, normally.
08:24 < Disconsented> Psi-Jack> The pacman kind
08:24 < uplime> anything can be stable or unstable given the right administrator
08:24 < sauvin> I tend to run stable distros, too, but I don't mind having "dated" software.
08:24 < Psi-Jack> Disconsented: Atari? That's odd hardware to be running this day in age. :)
08:24 < Disconsented> I curren't have mine built out of andesite
08:24 < Disconsented> but I am thinking of moving to marble or limestone
08:24 < stevendale> AOL_, I can't navigate in LibreOffice very easily, I know how to do stuff, it's just finding the options I want is hidden in places it isn't in office
08:25 < Hdphn> honestly thou, I know arch is buggy (it crashes randomly after updates etc.) I keep returning to arch whenever I try another distro lol
08:25 < Disconsented> Its not lol
08:25 < Disconsented> I've been using it for what? 3 years
08:25 < Disconsented> 0 crashes
08:25 < Disconsented> The only problems I've ever had are with deepin
08:25 < Hdphn> perhaps you dont use cinnamon or qemu
08:25 < stevendale> uplime, :D
08:25 < Hdphn> or compton
08:25 < Hdphn> :D
08:25 < iflema> Hdphn: you on a laptop?
08:25 < Disconsented> I use QEMU
08:25 < Psi-Jack> comptom is lame.
08:25 < sauvin> Hdphn, that might be the difference, then. I do most of my devs on Debian or Ubuntu, and I almost never have crashes.
08:25 < Disconsented> I still have cinnamon installed
08:25 < Hdphn> yes iflema
08:25 < Disconsented> No crashes from either
08:25 < stevendale> uplime, Is there a wordpad.exe remake too? :D
08:25 < uplime> i wish :c
08:25 < iflema> Hdphn: try restarting it after updates...
08:26 < stevendale> I know Wine has it's own wordpad now uplime
08:26 < iflema> instead of update, close lid and forget... rinse repeat
08:26 < uplime> https://windows93.net
08:26 < iflema> it is after all a deskto distro...
08:26 < iflema> p
08:26 < Hdphn> whats the laptop distro then
08:27 < Hdphn> iflema: what do you use personally
08:27  * stevendale notices progress quest
08:27 < stevendale> :O
08:27 < stevendale> uplime, that's ProgressQuest!
08:27 < uplime> \o/
08:27 < iflema> here im on opensuse leap
08:27 < Psi-Jack> Where are you leaping?
08:27 < stevendale> I used to leave that game running overnight every night on my Eee PC 701 when I was in primary school o/
08:27 < iflema> no far....
08:28 < uplime> ive thought about trying opensuse, but whenver i go to pick out a server i just automatically pick ubuntu
08:28 < Psi-Jack> uplime: Stop it!
08:28 < uplime> :c
08:28 < ayecee> rude
08:28 < Psi-Jack> heh
08:28 < sauvin> I wouldn't actually use Ubuntu for a server.
08:28 < uplime> lol
08:28 < uplime> i use it for all of my servers
08:28 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, I pretty much use CentOS and Debian.
08:28 < uplime> for better or worse
08:28 < Hdphn> linux is great for servers but it has a long way to go for desktops / laptops
08:29 < uplime> ive considered centos as well
08:29 < Disconsented> not really
08:29 < Disconsented> linux is fine on the desktop
08:29 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: Yet, I've been using Linux for desktops and laptops for 20 years.
08:29 < Disconsented> same with laptop
08:29 < Disconsented> thats just an old meme
08:29 < Hdphn> Disconsented: it doesnt support most of the apps I use
08:29 < AOL_> same
08:29 < Disconsented> So?
08:29 < Disconsented> That doesnt make it bad
08:29 < sauvin> Hdphn, I've been running Linux exclusively on my laptops and desktops for general purpose use since 2004.
08:29 < AOL_> "apps"
08:29 < Hdphn> and I cant even develop for iOS on linux machine :( it doesnt even have visual studio lol
08:29 < Disconsented> It has VS Code and Intellij
08:29 < Disconsented>  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
08:29 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: Keyword: "I use", change what you use.
08:30 < Hdphn> Windows has WSL now. but I dont like windows lol. I love unix environment. I would switch to macOS if I am rich in a beat!
08:30 < Psi-Jack> YOu can't develop for iOS on Windows, either.
08:30 < Disconsented> macos fights you for ios as well
08:30 < Psi-Jack> THAT, unfortunately, you can only do on macOS.
08:30 < uplime> so clearly windows is linux then
08:30 < Disconsented> macos is just crap really
08:30 < Hdphn> Psi-Jack: yea :(
08:30 < uplime> Disconsented: ive never had a problem with macos
08:30 < Hdphn> Disconsented: not really. did you try macOSA?
08:30 < Disconsented> I have a MBP
08:31 < iflema> Hdphn: not every update but if the kernel gets updated you must .
08:31 < AOL_> linux is superior for every computing platform, it is the software developers of the packages you use who need to catch up with linux
08:31 < Hdphn> whenever I ask programmers who are professional and not hobbyist. they always use macOS
08:31 < Hdphn> even in conferences I see macbooks
08:31 < Disconsented> I've had so many problems uplime
08:31 < uplime> guess it depends on the user then
08:31 < Hdphn> ^\
08:31 < sauvin> Hdphn, guessing you need to get out more.
08:31 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: For iOS developers? Sure.
08:31 < uplime> ive had plenty of problems with linux desktop/latops on the other hand
08:31 < no_gravity> Good Morning! How can I exchange the # key with backspace?
08:31 < uplime> AOL_: for some definitions of superior
08:32 < Hdphn> Psi-Jack: not limited to iOS devs. for almost any tech. python, ruby etc. etc.
08:32 < uplime> no_gravity: where is the data stored?
08:32 < AOL_> uplime: yeah like supercomputing
08:32 < Psi-Jack> Hdphn: Then yeah. You have very limited experience. :)
08:32 < no_gravity> uplime: What data? I want to press the # key to make a backspace.
08:32 < uplime> oh oops, i didn't see 'key'
08:32 < Disconsented> Dims at arbitary intervals, still has the hiding windows perma hide bug bug, updates are just stupid as hell, xcode is just garbage and it still likes to wiggle the mouse arbitarily
08:32 < AOL_> fastest top500 supercomputers run on linux for a reason
08:33 < Hdphn> AOL_: android wont run on linux kernel soon. wait for fuchisa
08:33 < Hdphn> google will release it soon
08:33 < Hdphn> AOSP already has fuchisa code now
08:33 < AOL_> Hdphn: my android will run whatever kernel i flash onto it
08:33 < seven-eleven> hi, can I use any low hardware equipment as a router as long as it comes with a 1 gigabit/s ethernet card it shouldn't bottleneck the network?
08:33 < Disconsented> people have been saying soon for ages
08:33 < Disconsented> seven-eleven> Depends on a lot of things
08:34 < Disconsented> Hardware that is too weak will increase latency
08:34 < Hdphn> I went to purchase macbook. 2012 model is costing me more than 2017 dell xps 13 loll
08:34 < Hdphn> Apple hardware does keep its price well for years
08:34 < uplime> seven-eleven: maybe its an old motherboard that has trouble moving bits between the various pieces
08:35 < uplime> there is a lot more that goes into a router than just the networking card
08:35 < iflema> Hdphn: last one i got the battery sweeled through the touchpad and the primary video died... never again
08:35 < Hdphn> iflema: macbook?
08:35 < Hdphn> wow
08:35 < iflema> Hdphn: 2012 pro
08:35 < seven-eleven> Disconsented, i see, would you estimate a banana pi which comes with an ARM cpu Quad-Core Cortex A7 and 2 GB DDR3 should be able to deal with a network of 15 computers and 300 Mbit/s WAN bandwidth
08:36 < Hdphn> hahaha thats pretty sad. I would get heartattack if I get that issue with my expensive laptop (macbook here costs fortune)
08:36 < Disconsented> seven-eleven> There is no clear answer you'll just need to try it and find out
08:36 < Hdphn> I love linux because it supports old hardware just fine.
08:36 < seven-eleven> Disconsented, thanks, I'll just test it then
08:37 < Psi-Jack> Heh, Fuchsia even does Swift? Iiiinteresting. But.. Never gonna happen for me. Google's already burned me out of their mobile OS.
08:38 < AOL_> Psi-Jack: what OS do you run on your phone
08:40 < AOL_> there is a lot of really terrible spyware and software such as facebook services installed onto the system partition of phones these days
08:40 < AOL_> so the regular user cannot remove them
08:40 < tomthumb> I am connected
08:44 < nai> does anybody know of concrete use cases for LD_PRELOAD?
08:45 < Psi-Jack> Well, iOS.
08:46 < AOL_> i don't see how that is any better than using Googleware
08:46 < Psi-Jack> It's a lot better. heh
08:46 < AOL_> can you get root?
08:46 < Psi-Jack> Nope. Nor do I want to.
08:47 < AOL_> Psi-Jack: it can be handy, for instance like with linux /etc/hosts, android root shell we can go into /etc/hosts and reroute all of the ad domains
08:47 < tomthumb> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/426230/what-is-the-ld-preload-trick
08:47 < AOL_> and also remove the vendor crapware and software installed onto the /system partition
08:48 < Psi-Jack> Yep. And you can also be more easily infested with even worse malware that can then track my family and more.
08:50 < AOL_> Psi-Jack: that same logic can apply to any device you have more control over, such as a laptop.  If you go and download "superkali.exe" from some vague website, yeah you might get shafted
08:50 < AOL_> "superandroidcleaner.apk" or whatever
08:51 < stevendale> B..but spyware!
08:51 < Psi-Jack> Sure. But my laptop doesn't track my family, store my contacts, etc.
08:51 < stevendale> Android is spying on you
08:51 < AOL_> Psi-Jack: even without root, a custom OS can be flashed without root
08:51 < AOL_> and the vendor crapware effectively removed
08:52 < AOL_> but without the privilege security concern
08:52 < stevendale> I run Lineage OS 14.1 official on my Galaxy S5, no gapps
08:53 < AOL_> no root is required is it stevendale, but it is an option
08:53 < Psi-Jack> AOL_: Not... Easily, and not without physical access.
08:53 < Psi-Jack> I care about security. Not so much privacy, but security.
08:54 < stevendale> Apple tracks you more than Google
08:54  * stevendale facedesks
08:54 < AOL_> Psi-Jack: i just think it is a disturbing feeling when i buy a new phone, see things like facebook preinstalled, go to uninstall them and find that i cannot uninstall them because they have been preinstalled onto the system partition
08:54 < Psi-Jack> AOL_: That doesn't happen on iOS.
08:54 < AOL_> Psi-Jack: you have apple software preinstalled
08:55 < Psi-Jack> Sure, which the majority of it is related to the OS itself.
08:55 < stevendale> Closed source apple software
08:55 < stevendale> Spyware
08:56 < stevendale> They're using your iPhone to mine BTC
08:56 < Psi-Jack> No, that's people's violated iPhones, before they burst into flames (true story)
08:56 < Psi-Jack> err
08:56 < Psi-Jack> Android phones not iPhones. :)
08:57 < stevendale> Yeah that was one model from a corrupted company,  not every company is corrupted
08:57 < AOL_> "<22Psi-Jack> Sure. But my laptop doesn't track my family, store my contacts, etc."  <-- then you just said you don't care about privacy, you evidently do
08:57 < stevendale> And if there were non apple companies making iOS devices, one could argue Apple is corrupted
08:58 < AOL_> every phone is both a privacy and a security concern
08:58 < Psi-Jack> Security prevents privacy from things you don't want just anyone having access to.
08:58 < AOL_> and when a corporation has access to the data, that corporation becomes the concern
08:58 < AOL_> your logic = "i only want apple corporation spying on me"
08:59 < Psi-Jack> That, I am fine with. :)
08:59 < stevendale> And then
08:59 < stevendale> Apple sells it to other companies
08:59 < AOL_> what's equifax?
08:59 < Psi-Jack> That they do not.
08:59 < stevendale> Yes they do, it's money making
08:59 < stevendale> Google will get your data either way
08:59 < Psi-Jack> No, they don't.
09:00 < stevendale> How are they so rich then?
09:00 < Psi-Jack> Google does, to some extent. Apple does not.
09:00 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: Have you seen the price of Apple hardware?
09:00 < Psi-Jack> Heh
09:00 < stevendale> You're paying for the logo
09:00 < AOL_> have you seen how much a branded sweater costs?
09:01 < AOL_> made in a sweatshop in india
09:01 < Psi-Jack> You asked how are they so rich. You think it costs Apple ~$1,000 to make an iPhone with 256GB storage?
09:02 < AOL_> everyone knows you don't pay for the hardware, you get equivalent hardware without the brand for a cheaper price
09:02 < AOL_> for the same price, without the brand you get better hardware
09:03 < stevendale> Yep
09:03 < stevendale> I can get 16 GB DDR4 laptop with i7-7700HQ, GTX 1070 4 GB GDDR5 for $2000~
09:04 < stevendale> 1 TB SSD
09:04 < stevendale> (Australian dollars)
09:04 < Psi-Jack> Completely skipping the entire topic. LOL
09:04 < stevendale> From Apple, I get a 4th gen dual core i5, 8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, Intel HD Graphics 6000
09:05 < stevendale> Ram is DDR3 too
09:06 < Dreaman> nikolov@ubuntu-ivan:~$ inxi -F
09:06 < Dreaman> System:    Host: ubuntu-ivan Kernel: 4.15.0-20-generic x86_64 bits: 64
09:06 < Dreaman>            Desktop: Gnome 3.28.1 Distro: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS
09:06 < Dreaman> Machine:   Device: laptop System: Acer product: Aspire F5-573G v: V1.27 serial: N/A
09:06 < Dreaman> my is 4
09:06 < Dreaman> ddr4
09:06 < Psi-Jack> Flood elsewhere.
09:06 < stevendale> I'd probably get a better build than Apple's if I spent a month collecting parts at a dump, right AOL_?
09:06 < Dreaman> 2 video cards and 2 hdd
09:06 < stevendale> \o/
09:06 < Dreaman> usb 3.1
09:06 < Psi-Jack> Enter
09:07 < Psi-Jack> Enter
09:07 < saltystew> no one buys apple products for to get the best hardware, they but it as a fashion statement
09:07 < Psi-Jack> Excessive use of enter key detected.
09:07 < Dreaman> 2 os
09:07 < Dreaman> hahahaha
09:07 < hexnewbie> Dreaman: Not funny. Enter is not punctuation.
09:07 < AOL_> i think manufacturers/corps on both sides of the spectrum should give users the option to edit their device if they want, i don't see how it should be different from a laptop or desktop PC, a "smartphone" is just a computer with a carrier radio to make calls.
09:07 < stevendale> What if I make my own dictionary
09:07 < stevendale> And make it punctuation
09:09 < AOL_> sure, most of the users would not be interested in editing /etc/hosts for example, but for the people who want to, and risk breaking their system and having to restore a factory image, they should be granted that function out of the box
09:09 < junka> most users will install an ad blocker
09:09 < Psi-Jack> I, for one, don't need to edit /etc/host, because I run my own dns server at my router. I can do whatever I want with DNS, globally.
09:10 < Psi-Jack> And yeah, I use an ad blocker on my phone, which is quite effective.
09:10 < AOL_> it was an example, and Psi-Jack your phone is not connecting to your DNS server when you are on cell data roaming
09:10 < Psi-Jack> A bad example.
09:10 < stevendale> Make your DNS 127.0.0.1
09:10 < AOL_> replace /etc/hosts with /system then in the case of android
09:11 < AOL_> that example, delete the facebook app from the multitude of phones where it is installed into the system partition
09:12 < Dreaman> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Zw5y8pG2Fz/  hexnewbie  mhm
09:13 < Psi-Jack> That's an Android-specific problem, and more actually a cell phone company specific problem. Android itself doesn't come with that stuff, only their own stuff.
09:13 < AOL_> do you know what an example is Psi-Jack
09:13 < AOL_> it's the concept
09:13 < AOL_> that matters
09:13 < Psi-Jack> And Android is working on making most of it's main software installable individually, to help with updating with this ecosystem.
09:14 < Psi-Jack> Another bad example.
09:14 < AOL_> bad concept too?
09:14 < AOL_> being able to remove and edit what you want?
09:14 < AOL_> you have that freedom on your laptop, desktop, server, other computers
09:14 < AOL_> "smartphone" should be no different.
09:15 < AOL_> it's just a computer
09:15 < Psi-Jack> Sure. But my phone is a functional purpose, and it needs high security capabilities, as it's well connected via multiple different ways, wirelessly primarily.
09:15 < AOL_> that is a bad argument
09:15 < Psi-Jack> I want to be able to answer a phone call when I get one. Always.
09:16 < AOL_> you are assuming that any user modification will break functionality
09:16 < Psi-Jack> From the actual OS itself? Sure.
09:17 < AOL_> well i can see where you stand on this topic, and i will just totally disagree with you
09:17 < AOL_> so not much point talking further about it
09:17 < Psi-Jack> 3rd party apps /not/ from the OS itself, that's different.
09:17 < Psi-Jack> But, with Android land, that's already a 3rd party problem.
09:17  * sauvin yawns
09:17 < AOL_> nah, it's all just software running on a computer, should have freedom to replace the entire iOS with GNU/Stallman
09:18  * AOL_ is done wasting energy typing
09:18 < Psi-Jack> If I wanted a multi-purpose pocket computer like that, I would buy one. Not buy something made for something entirely differtent.
09:19 < AOL_> https://youtu.be/I25UeVXrEHQ
09:21 < Psi-Jack> Annnnnnd on that note. JUst finished watching my TV, now it's bed time. :)
09:34 < ejr> so i have this program starting via /usr/bin path and i would like to be able to run it as normal user too. right now it rejects any attempts to do so unless I use sudo or the root account. how do I achieve this?
09:35 < ejr> perhaps changing the permissions on the bin file?
09:35 < well_laid_lawn> it will depend on what the program does
09:36 < well_laid_lawn> some need admin permissions to access things
09:37 < ejr> it mount and unmounts drives
09:37 < well_laid_lawn> so mount and umount ?
09:38 < ejr> the problem is maybe not even with the program itself. it's when it has mounted an external media, i can only write data on it with sudo, which annoys me.
09:38 < ejr> no, bashmount
09:38 < ejr> but it effectively uses mount/unmount
09:38 < well_laid_lawn> you can edit the sudoers file so you can sudo someapp without a password
09:39 < well_laid_lawn> it's what i have done for mount and umount
09:39 < ejr> also, when I try to change the permission of the mounted folder, i am not permitted to do that
09:39 < well_laid_lawn> you'll need the right miount options for that
09:40 < well_laid_lawn> s/iou/ou/
09:40 < ejr> but your advice would still start the app as sudo, so it would use a different config file than my user config, which is a problem because of it's very personalised
09:40 < well_laid_lawn> which config file ?
09:40 < ejr> also, i already have nopasswd: all enabled in visudo, so entering the password is not a problem for me
09:41 < well_laid_lawn> so what's the issue ?
09:41 < ejr> e.g. the config of ranger, my file manager. there is a general one in /etc/ranger and my personal one in ~/.config/
09:42 < ejr> the issue is that I need to start e.g. my file manager with sudo permissions, which i do not want to do (because it uses another config and generally isn't needed otherwise)
09:42 < Heston> hey guys, is there a way to get the checksum of 2 partitions together on a device? I don't want the entire device since the partitions are much less than the total space available
09:44 < Heston> I basically want to make sure my dd of an iso onto a usb was successful but the iso creates 2 partitions on the usb
09:45 < stevendale> Can't you do them one by one Heston?
09:46 < well_laid_lawn> ejr:  so you need different mount options so your user can access the files
09:46 < Heston> stevendale, well that wont give me a checksum to compare with the checksum of the actual iso
09:47 < stevendale> Heston, You could always.. 'mount the iso' o/
09:48 < Heston> how would that help?
09:48 < stevendale> Then you can compare the partitions individually... right? o/
09:49 < Heston> stevendale, hmm interesting idea, let me see
09:49 < sauvin> Heston, by what process did you get an ISO to create two partitions on your USB?
09:49 < stevendale> sauvin, Debian does this
09:49 < stevendale> One is the ESP in all non +mac amd64 isos
09:49 < Heston> just with a straight dd onto the device
09:49 < stevendale> Some other distros do this too
09:49 < ejr> well_laid_lawn: yes, I am going to read the mount man carefully and maybe figure something out with fstab. thanks
09:49 < Heston> it includes a partitions for EFI booting
09:50 < stevendale> o/
09:50  * stevendale despises EFI
09:53 < ShapeShifter499> if I use 'cp -a /somefolder /newfolder'     I end up with '/newfolder/somefolder'     I don't want this, how can I copy a folders contents to the root of another folder without 'cp' creating a folder named the same as the old one
09:53 < ejr> hah, actually a one-liner in fstab + an alias for adding the drive solves my problem. just needed to add "user" to the options in fstab :)
09:53 < stevendale> Hi ShapeShifter499
09:53 < stevendale> If you cd to the directory
09:53 < stevendale> You can do cp * /newfolder/
09:54 < well_laid_lawn> or cp -a /somefolder/* newfolder
09:54 < ShapeShifter499> stevendale: will that also nab any hidden dot files and folders?
09:54 < stevendale> Yep
09:54 < stevendale> And if not, ls -a will show them
09:54 < ShapeShifter499> well_laid_lawn: I thought about that but I was worried about not getting dot files/folders
09:56 < Heston> stevendale, I dont think it's going to really work. I just get /dev/loop1 which basically becomes the iso and not the separate partitions
09:57 < Heston> unless i mount it differently?
09:58 < ShapeShifter499> well_laid_lawn: stevendale seems good guys, thank you for the help
09:58 < stevendale> No problem ShapeShifter499
09:58 < sauvin> If you want to get a loop device off an ISO, and it comes in "partitions", you probably need help with something called "losetup", I think it is.
09:59 < stevendale> Heston, I had a feeling that would happen, I could look it up for you, as that isn't something I am aware of how to fix, but sauvin seems like he should be able to help you o/
09:59 < sauvin> It's not something I've ever done, just something that I seem to remember vaguely.
10:12 < Heston> I dont quite understand how I should use losetup to get the individual partitions
10:13 < Heston> it's just showing what file the loop device is mounted to
10:17 < Heston> i think this debian version is stripped down and doesnt support -P or --partscan
10:27 < leachim6> in case of `rsync -z` which side of the xfer does the compression happen on?
10:27  * lopid chortles
10:28 < leachim6> why a chortle, seems like a legitimate question
10:31 < mjbjr> leachim6: the man page tells you
10:31 < leachim6> ah...rtfm
10:31 < mjbjr> :)
10:32 < mjbjr> leachim6: you could try it on a small test directory
10:32 < lopid> you don't need to read documentation to answer that
10:33 < mjbjr> lopid: true
10:34 < leachim6> well if it's on the remote side it doesn't really make much sense does it
10:34 < lopid> !
10:34 < leachim6> !!
10:44 < hk238> does anyone know if it's possible to disable desktop grid in KDE ?
10:44 < iflema> hk238: yeah
10:45 < michaelrose> systemsettings and disable any hotkey you don't like
10:45 < iflema> under    desktop effects
10:45 < iflema> and disable the hotkey
10:45 < iflema> or screen edge
10:46 < iflema> or change it to another edge
10:47 < hk238> oh sorry I didn't mean this desktop grid, I mean the grid which the icons align to (desktop grid is also a display for different windows?)
10:47 < iflema> no idea
10:47 < iflema> not about to look
10:47 < hk238> basically I have like 40 icons on the desktop and they need to be manually placed so that it looks neat, the grid snap option fills a lot of space.. sorry thanks anyway
10:47  * iflema looking at ubuntu
10:48 < iflema> anyone? surely there are settings for it?
10:49 < michaelrose> it would be under whatever plsamoid handles the desktop
10:49 < michaelrose> although if you have 40 icons on your desktop you are doing it wrong
10:49 < iflema> lol
10:49 < iflema> michaelrose: goodone
10:49 < iflema> try the wiblows button and type
10:50 < sauvin> I've seen desktops absolutely overrun with icons. How do these people tolerate such clutter!?
10:50 < michaelrose> I don't remember exactly how to get into the settings for the desktop plasmoid right click maybe? my info is a little out of date
10:51 < hk238> It's nice to have the icons on the desktop, but that's personal preference.. I found the solution from google apparently the cellsize can be changed by modifying the contents of a file, although it would be pretty nice if there was a configurable setting for the purpose
10:52 < michaelrose> also the desktop as a desktop metaphor is just broken you have to hide everything to show the desktop right? so 99% of the time you have to press a button to hide everything and another to bring everything back
10:52 < michaelrose> so instead of another really broken bad metaphor hitting a button to bring up another window full of icons makes a lot more sense
10:53 < michaelrose> also such a menu can do handy stuff like narrow as you type a search string
10:54 < michaelrose> at least icons on a bar are always readily available at a small cost of reserving some space on the bottom/top of the stcreen
10:55 < iflema> unity was ok... what happened?
10:55  * iflema enough ubuntu
10:57 < Dreaman> 18.04 lts is a gnome
10:58 < Dreaman> no unity
10:58 < pingfloyd> you're a gnome
10:58 < Dreaman> nikolov@ubuntu-ivan:~$ inxi -F
10:58 < Dreaman> System:    Host: ubuntu-ivan Kernel: 4.15.0-20-generic x86_64 bits: 64
10:58 < Dreaman>            Desktop: Gnome 3.28.1 Distro: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS
10:59 < iflema> yeah i got that far
10:59 < pingfloyd> I prefer zero icons on my desktop
10:59 < iflema> just another box eww
10:59 < iflema> gnome box
10:59 < pingfloyd> dmenu ftw
10:59 < iflema> fully
10:59 < pingfloyd> never hunt for a .desktop file again
10:59 < pingfloyd> since they become moot with that
11:00 < pingfloyd> I use Windows the same way
11:00 < pingfloyd> i.e., use the search box to find the executable I want to run
11:01 < hk238> those are reasonable arguments michaelrose : ) I find this most convenient with the desktop grid and minimize windows functions in the corners with mouse over
11:13 < michaelrose> hot corners or edges are another terrible ui
11:13 < iflema> 50/50
11:13 < iflema> yeah ok
11:13 < Sveta> can you switch that off, michaelrose?
11:13 < iflema> oh jesus
11:14  * iflema looks away again
11:14 < michaelrose> impossible to discover except by accident, easy to accidentally trigger, confusing to the user, if you add a small time out or smaller hit box to avoid accidentally triggering it becomes harder for the user
11:15 < michaelrose> think suckdows 8's weird little ui that you triggered by the side, or androids menu key where if you couldn't figure out how to do something you would go to each screen and hit the menu key to see if something would pop out
11:16 < rascul> there is no delay on those things
11:17 < sauvin> That would be "windows", not "suckdows".
11:18 < rascul> i don't understand windows, why do people put gaping holes in such beautiful walls?
11:18 < Dreaman> easy to hack
11:18 < Dreaman> hahahah
11:18 < pingfloyd> the UI is the only good thing about Windows 10
11:19 < pingfloyd> the rest of it is a crappy designed OS + spyware
11:19 < iflema> pingfloyd: facetious?
11:19 < rascul> never used win10, nor do i plan on it
11:19 < Disconsented> I hope you dont use facebook, google, android or iOS
11:19 < pingfloyd> no
11:19 < iflema> its all crap bar the games
11:20 < Disconsented> because those are much much worse
11:20 < pingfloyd> I like its UI
11:20 < pingfloyd> games is the other pro
11:20 < iflema> and thay are crap too
11:20 < rascul> there is good android, but not from any hardware vendor
11:20 < sauvin> My phone came with Android installed, and so did my tablet. :\
11:21 < Dreaman> android is not open
11:21 < sauvin> Never said it was.
11:21 < pingfloyd> android is more or less another windows
11:21 < rascul> there is open android, but not what you get with your phone
11:22 < pingfloyd> but android is the lesser of evils in phone oses
11:22 < pingfloyd> (phones oses that matter)
11:22 < rascul> it's quite superior in that area
11:22 < pingfloyd> I think so too
11:23 < rascul> wasn't always, but it caught up and passed ios like 5 years ago or so
11:23 < pingfloyd> It's hands down android instead of IOs or Windows mobile
11:23 < rascul> 3 years, something like that
11:23 < sauvin> I won't even touch a Windows mobile.
11:23 < pingfloyd> Android has the best ecosystem of the 3
11:23 < rascul> been 8 years since i've even seen windows mobile
11:23 < kekePower> tried it. was fun, but lacked apps
11:24 < sauvin> My girlfriend's iPoop is touchable, but it vexes me.
11:24 < pingfloyd> and that's what ultimately matters
11:24 < pingfloyd> IOs feels like a toy
11:24 < pingfloyd> like a toy phone
11:24 < dgurney> it never ceases to amaze me how strong opinions people have about operating systems
11:24 < rascul> sauvin you touch your girlfriend's poop?
11:24 < Dreaman> apple and win sucks
11:24 < sauvin> That's precisely why my girlfriend loves iPoop: it's SHINY!
11:24 < Dreaman> big jocke
11:25 < pingfloyd> dgurney: one of the few things worth having a strong opinion about. And that's my strong opinion.
11:25 < iflema> plasma screeshot tool has options to upload to online services and return a URL lol https://i.imgur.com/qloVEk5.png
11:25 < rascul> android is much better when you can run things like lineageos or replicantos or whatever
11:25 < pingfloyd> sauvin: let the hipsters eat fruit
11:26 < rascul> iflema that's not new
11:26 < dgurney> my opinion about operating systems: why care, so long as it works for my needs
11:26 < pingfloyd> more meat for me
11:26 < iflema> rascul: never noticed
11:26 < alexey-nemovff> rascul: +1000
11:26 < iflema> I only ever drop screen shots here for some reason
11:27 < rascul> iflema i know it existed since the beginning of kde4, i can't recall if it existed in kde3
11:27 < pingfloyd> the only thing that really makes me run windows at all, is for providing support.
11:28 < stevendale> o/
11:29 < rascul> i refuse to provide windows support except for my girlfriend or my family or other close friends
11:29 < rascul> and in those cases i try to support windows by installing linux
11:29 < stevendale> pingfloyd, I do admit it is easier to provide support if the one prodividing support is running the same OS and case as the one receving support
11:29 < stevendale> And I am too lazy to use autocorrect
11:29 < space_race> o/
11:30 < pingfloyd> stevendale: also if you need to admin windows servers
11:30 < rascul> if you have to manually interact, it's not really autocorrect
11:30 < stevendale> Most of the times I just wish I could vnc into peoples machines and fix it my way pingfloyd, but asking people in here for their root passwords and stuff... :P
11:30 < alexey-nemovff> dgurney: my opinion about operating systems: I do care aboutbmy my OS (that is mine not just rented)
11:30 < stevendale> It's easier if I can see stuff first-hand rather than going off pastebind
11:31 < alexey-nemovff> [04:30:27]  <alexey-nemovff> dgurney: my opinion about operating systems: I do care about my privacy and my OS (that is mine not just rented)
11:31 < rascul> yep, that's what you said 1 minute ago
11:31 < rascul> oh you fixed your typo i guess
11:32 < dgurney> good for you
11:34 < dgurney> I only care if the OS has a problem that actually affects me and cannot be fixed in any way
11:34 < alexey-nemovff> dgurney: yeah I know.. and that makes me feel happier using my systems like GNU-Linux and LineageOS (concerning mobile)
11:34 < rascul> windows has the problem of not being released under a free and open source license, and i have no way to correct that issue
11:35 < pingfloyd> a big problem is its violation of its user's privacy
11:36 < rascul> the solution for that would already exist if we could see/modify the code
11:36 < dgurney> and yet, it works fine for my purposes (e.g. gaming)
11:37 < dgurney> telemetry can be worked around anyway
11:37 < rascul> to each their own
11:37 < pingfloyd> shouldn't have to work around it
11:37 < dgurney> sure, but that's how it is now
11:37 < dgurney> no amount of whining will change it
11:37 < alexey-nemovff> pingfloyd: they say you can tweak settings to avoid that violation.. but I don't trust
11:37 < pingfloyd> should be able to at least reliably completely disable it
11:37 < rascul> i don't see windows code ever being released though, at least not while the os is still relevant
11:38 < pingfloyd> alexey-nemovff: yeah I don't either.
11:38 < pingfloyd> alexey-nemovff: stuff like always has a way of "mysteriously" coming back on its own.
11:38 < dgurney> I don't disagree, but I have games to play on my gaming install, and all software politics shall be forgotten when I'm having fun
11:38 < pingfloyd> for games you might as well have a dedicated system
11:39 < rascul> you'll care a lot more if ms ever decides that you shouldn't have one of the games you do and uninstalls it for you
11:39 < pingfloyd> just run windows on it.  Because you want your best hardware for that.
11:39 < dgurney> yes, it's called my desktop machine and a dual-boot setup
11:40 < pingfloyd> if it's modern enough, shouldn't need to dual boot
11:40 < dgurney> there's no mechanism for MS to remotely uninstall programs of any sort for you...
11:40 < Ben64> dgurney: sure there is
11:40 < pingfloyd> should have good iommu support
11:40 < dgurney> yeah, I want to actually do things, not fiddle with PCI passthrough and whatnot
11:41 < rascul> dgurney there is, and they've done it
11:41 < Ben64> stuff like cpu-z went away after an update
11:45 < rascul> https://www.wired.co.uk/article/windows-10-update-removing-software
11:47 < alexey-nemovff> I don't trust Microsoft, Google, Facebook... and so on
11:47 < dgurney> that's fair, you shouldn't fully trust anyway
11:47 < dgurney> *anyone
11:47 < alexey-nemovff> xD
11:48 < dgurney> it's true though, pretty much anyone can screw you over
11:49 < rascul> if you have win10 on an internet connected computer, it's pretty much not your computer anymore and you're just borrowing it from microsoft
11:50 < alexey-nemovff> as well as I understand your point.. I try to avoid those Skynets as much as possible..
11:50 < rascul> that microsoft hasn't screwed over too many users doesn't mean that they won't, or should have that power
11:51 < alexey-nemovff> rascul: exactly
11:51 < rascul> iirc some woman won a lawsuit against ms because she got a win10 upgrade without consenting and it broke a lot of things
11:51 < dgurney> yes, that forced upgrade program was a mistake
11:52 < dgurney> even an MS marketing guy admitted that they went too far in some podcast ages ago
11:52 < alexey-nemovff> like many others mistakes dgurney
11:52 < dgurney> the software world is full of mistakes anyway
11:52 < rascul> https://www.seattletimes.com/business/microsoft/microsoft-draws-flak-for-pushing-windows-10-on-pc-users/
11:53 < alexey-nemovff> that too
11:53 < dgurney> you really think I don't know that?
11:54 < rascul> that one tells about the lawsuit i mentioned, i don't care if you know it already or not, i just like to provide sources when i can
11:55 < dgurney> well that's good
11:55 < rascul> yeah, i'm good from time to time
11:55 < dgurney> I'm just too used to always being shoved lord knows what because I don't have "radical" opinions
11:55  * rascul shrugs
11:56 < rascul> you're free to do what you want
11:56 < dgurney> indeed, and that's what I preach to others as well
11:57 < rascul> is win7 no longer suitable for modern gaming?
11:57 < dgurney> it's not ideal, because it doesn't have DX12 available
11:57 < rascul> ahh ok
11:57 < rascul> the only games i really play are wesnoth and heroes of might and magic 3
11:58 < rascul> both of which run natively on linux so i don't have to care about windows
12:01 < alexey-nemovff> rascul: what's the difference between wesnoth and 0ad? kind of similar aren't they?
12:01 < rascul> wesnoth is turn based, 0ad is real time
12:02 < alexey-nemovff> ohh I see..
12:02 < rascul> 0ad is kinda like age of empires i guess
12:02 < alexey-nemovff> it is just that I don't play xD
12:02 < rascul> haven't played much of it though
12:02 < rascul> i'm not really a gamer
12:28 < BluesKaj> Hey folks
12:30 < Sveta> hi BluesKaj! how is life?
12:31 < slavka`> ey guys, when doing scp or rsync on a centos7 server... it seems to start pretty fast, but after a few seconds status becomes `stalled`, i have tried limiting speed with `-l` and using different cyphers but same behaviour... anyone can offer some insight would be appreciated
12:31 < BluesKaj> Hi Sveta, well i'm still alive  :-)
12:32 < Sveta> good! how is your weekend?
12:34 < BluesKaj> quiet, but fine Sveta, how about yours?
12:37 < Sveta> BluesKaj: totally not quiet, I was a bit sick and didn't do the linux duties at the home lan that I needed to do. on the plus side  I made a plan that looks good.
12:37 < BluesKaj> sounds good Sveta
12:38 < phct> hello
12:38 < phct> does anyone know a Web parser and a crawler / spider?
12:38 < phct> where can i ask ?
12:40 < space_race> phct, Are you trying to build one or looking for one that you can use?
12:53 < phct> space_race: looking for one i can use, there is any free good one?
12:53 < phct> where can i ask ?
12:53 < mawk> you use compression slavka` ?
12:53 < mawk> wget can do it phct
12:55 < space_race> phct i think either ask around in the your distro's irc or search your distro's repo
12:56 < space_race> if not then try github
12:56 < space_race> I remember there were a few there, last time I check
12:58 < phct> wtf ?
13:04 < slavka`> i tried with -C as well
13:04 < slavka`> mawk: ^^
13:04 < slavka`> mawk: tried with compression as well
13:04 < mawk> yeah, then keep it disabled
13:06 < slavka`> seems say behaviour ... starts copying and than times out with status 'stalled'
13:07 < barteks2x> is there any way to firce windows-like behavior for trying to write to already open files?
13:07 < barteks2x> at least temporarily
13:08 < mawk> what do you mean barteks2x ?
13:08 < mawk> like, locking ?
13:08 < barteks2x> I don't feel like rebooting to windows every time I want to make sure my program doesn't leave open files before trying to write to thgem
13:08 < mawk> preventing writes to some files while they're open ?
13:08 < barteks2x> which fails on windows
13:08 < mawk> you have several solutions
13:09 < mawk> one of them is to use optional locking on the files, it's easy to use
13:09 < mawk> the other solution is to use mandatory locking, you need support from your filesystem
13:09 < barteks2x> is it something you set in commandline or something you set when opening the file?
13:09 < barteks2x> the first thing
13:09 < mawk> the fs needs to be mounted with the mand option
13:09 < barteks2x> I need it to work in java
13:09 < mawk> it should work in java
13:09 < slavka`> i take it no one can offer more insight into my issue?
13:09 < mawk> it's something you set when you open the file barteks2x
13:10 < barteks2x> um
13:10 < mawk> both in your program and in the other program that will write these files
13:10 < barteks2x> both are the same program
13:10 < mawk> ah
13:10 < mawk> then it's fine, just use that lock thing
13:10 < mawk> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2045734/java-file-locking
13:11 < barteks2x> the "filesystem mounted with mand option"?
13:11 < mawk> it's for the second solution, mandatory locking
13:11 < mawk> just ignore it
13:12 < barteks2x> so I would need top find every single place where I open files, and modify it?
13:12 < mawk> yes
13:12 < mawk> in your java program
13:12 < mawk> https://docs.oracle.com/javase/9/docs/api/java/nio/channels/FileLock.html
13:12 < mawk> it should be easy
13:13 < barteks2x> uh... not that nice, considering I do it in a few places and one of them is my little library I would need to modify (and then I would ned to make sure I didn't miss anything)
13:14 < mawk> you can acquire the lock after having the file opened
13:14 < barteks2x> And how would that work with RandomAccessFile?
13:15 < mawk> it shouldn't matter how you access the file
13:15 < barteks2x> from javadoc: A file-lock object is created each time a lock is acquired on a file via one of the lock or tryLock methods of the FileChannel class.
13:15 < mawk> just know that you must possess the lock before opening the file
13:15 < barteks2x> RandomAccessFile is not FileChannel
13:15 < mawk> yeah that's just java details
13:15 < mawk> on the OS level locks aren't always related to the files you want to open
13:15 < mawk> for instance in the main() function of your program you can hold a single lock file for the whole program
13:15 < mawk> that would be simpler
13:16 < barteks2x> I just want to make sure this thing doesn't end up with "access denied" on windows
13:17 < mawk> with windows I don't know how you can do
13:17 < mawk> but java would have thought about that
13:17 < mawk> so use that FileLock thing with for instance /tmp/.my_application.lock
13:17 < mawk> and every application that wants to modify application files needs to hold that lock
13:18 < barteks2x> It's the same instance of the same application, trying to modify files it itself has already opened
13:19 < barteks2x> it *should* close them but it's not so easy to debug on linux
13:19 < mawk> yeah it's good
13:19 < mawk> you hold a lock on /tmp/.your_application.lock
13:19 < mawk> which is just an empty file you put a lock on
13:21 < stevendale> Copious amounts of alcohol
13:22 < barteks2x> and how would that work mawk? I would hold a lock... and how would that prevent me from opening a file for read/write once, and without closing, opening it for wqrite again?
13:24 < mawk> if you open another instance of the same program it will try to hold the same lock barteks2x
13:24 < mawk> and that will fail
13:24 < barteks2x> I mean I want to prevent **the same instance** of this program from doing that
13:25 < barteks2x> I want to make sure one instance of it won't cause this kind of issues on windows, linux just silently ignores the issue doing the right thing anyway
13:25 < mawk> the same instance ?
13:25 < mawk> it's a problem in your own program then
13:25 < mawk> not with linux or windows
13:25 < barteks2x> I know it is
13:25 < barteks2x> but I want to at least be able to *detect* it
13:25 < barteks2x> so far linux doesn't give me such option
13:25 < mawk> then try mandatory locking
13:26 < mawk> but for detection I don't know
13:26 < mawk> it will just halt the calling thread until the lock is released by the other thread
13:26 < hexnewbie> Mandatory locking won't work inside the same program either
13:26 < mawk> you can maybe make an error or something
13:26 < mawk> ah, too bad
13:26 < hexnewbie> Er, sorry. Likely won't work.
13:27 < hexnewbie> barteks2x: Why don't you add code compiled only in debug mode that tracks the open files and blows up asserts they aren't already open?
13:28 < barteks2x> hexnewbie, there is no way to check if a file is already open
13:28 < hexnewbie> barteks2x: Make one?
13:29 < barteks2x> the only option stackoverflow gives to check for it is try { open(); isOpen = false; } catch(IOException e) { isOpen = true; } whioch works only on windows
13:29 < mawk> the optional lock I gave you works on both plateforms
13:29 < mawk> it won't add much more work than this SO solution you have
13:29 < mawk> https://docs.oracle.com/javase/9/docs/api/java/nio/channels/FileLock.html
13:30 < mawk> https://dzone.com/articles/locking-files-in-java
13:31 < hexnewbie> barteks2x: If the library is using flock to lock, then: “If a process uses open(2) (or similar) to obtain more than one descriptor for the same file, these descriptors are treated independently by flock().  An attempt to lock the file using one of these file descriptors may be denied by a lock that the calling process has already placed via another descriptor.”
13:31 < hexnewbie> barteks2x: Not sure about lockf
13:31 < barteks2x> I have no clue what jhava uses internally to do that
13:33 < mawk> independently of OS features, you can have a global hashmap where you store open file paths
13:33 < mawk> to check if a file is already opened
13:34 < hexnewbie> The hashmap is slightly difficult to get due to symlinks and open race conditions, but can be done. So that was my idea.
13:35 < barteks2x> the FileLock thing will just prevent different JVM from writing to the file again
13:35 < mawk> then you have the raw flock call
13:35 < mawk> if you can do syscalls in java
13:36 < mawk> and if you can't do syscalls in java, chose another language
13:37 < barteks2x> doing syscalls in java would require using JNI which is a nightmare
13:41 < jbit> barteks2x: i've used the JNA framework to do syscalls from java before, it's not terrible
13:42 < barteks2x> at this point I think I'm just going to give up on it and tell the users to report those issues if they find any
13:43 < mawk> JNA looks the way to go
13:43 < mawk> open glibc, find flock, use it
13:43 < mawk> https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/1683
13:44 < mawk> CStdLib c = (CStdLib)Native.loadLibrary("c", CStdLib.class); c.flock(something something); but I don't know how you should play with the argument types
13:44 < mawk> since both arguments are ints you're lucky
13:46 < mawk> for operation you use LOCK_EX|LOCK_NB, and if the return value of the c.flock call is negative then you can reasonnably think that the file is already locked
13:47 < mawk> ah sorry I didn't read that SO answer fully, perfect you have to declare the prototypes
13:47 < mawk> so let's do that
13:47 < mawk> for perfect operation you'd have to read the errno value, but let's not get picky
13:50 < mawk> what's wrong with the hashmap solution overall barteks2x ?
13:50 < mawk> it would be way simpler than using the raw flock
13:51 < barteks2x> oh you mean just keeping track of which files are open myself?
13:51 < mawk> yes
13:54 < barteks2x> Unfortunately I split part of the application intoi a liuttle liubrary and the library opens some of the files, but not necessarily all
14:07 < barteks2x> looks like this may be more useful than any of the locking previously mentioned: http://file-leak-detector.kohsuke.org/
14:12 < mawk> yeah if you want barteks2x
14:12 < mawk> but you're not tracing for a leak are you ?
14:12 < mawk> you're tracing for concurrent accesses
14:13 < mawk> what is NAPI, NAPI_FRAGS ?
14:13 < mawk> in the context of a tun device
14:13 < mawk> or network driver
14:17 < barteks2x> mawk, turns out I'm bad at explaining, it essentially is a leak, but one that eventualy gets closed but too late
14:19 < Bushmaster> hi all
14:19 < Bushmaster> i have issue installing google earth in debian 32 bit jessie
14:19 < Bushmaster> can anyone help please
14:23 < zapotah> Bushmaster: the latest doesnt exist for 32bit
14:24 < zapotah> or if it does, you need to first install the older version package
14:24 < stevendale> o/
14:25 < mawk> ah ok barteks2x , yeah then it makes sense
14:26 < Bushmaster> zapotah, this link i use to download it 32 bit https://askubuntu.com/questions/302135/how-to-install-google-earth-on-ubuntu
14:27 < Bushmaster> zapotah,  can you tell me what's going on after looking at this pastebin https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xJq4H5FYdF/
14:29 < zapotah> Bushmaster: why on earth have you downloaded the 64-bit package?
14:29 < zapotah> its pretty self-eplanatory
14:30 < Bushmaster> zapotah, it was accident and i do not know how to delete it, i did download 32 bit after but now 64 bit is hanging on
14:30 < noodlepie> There isn't a day go by in which I don't praise the ground the screen programmers walk on. I just fix netsed scrollback. Wonderful sh*t
14:31 < Bushmaster> how can i get rid of that 64 bit now zapotah
14:31 < zapotah> as you would any package
14:32 < Checkmate> Hello how to copy past data on file text to another
14:32 < zapotah> and for whatever reason it sticks a mirror there that no longer exists
14:32 < quelqun_dautre> hey, anyone fluent in linux syscalls and userland memory model ? Or is there a better channel for that ?
14:32 < Bushmaster> yes zapotah  can you help me solving this issue
14:33 < dogbert2> yawn...m00000000
14:34 < iflema> Checkmate: where are you?
14:34 < Checkmate> i'm here iflema
14:34 < iflema> :D
14:35 < mawk> yes quelqun_dautre
14:35 < mawk> ask your quesiton
14:35 < mawk> are you french ?
14:38 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: I'm trying to execute some sort of shellcode (just a call to exit(42)) through C code. from what I understand, stack is not executable, so I mmaped the file containing the payload with PROT_READ | PROT_EXEC.
14:38 < mawk> yeah
14:38 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: but as soon as I try to call the code, it gives a SIGSEGV
14:38 < mawk> or you can read() that file into a mmap'd executable page
14:38 < mawk> you tried to gdb that ?
14:38 < quelqun_dautre> yeah
14:39 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: everything looks good, x/3i gives me my assembly (2 movq and a syscall)
14:39 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: the open and mmap calls are just fine
14:39 < mawk> and at which instruction does it fail ?
14:39 < quelqun_dautre> as soon as it jumps into my code
14:39 < mawk> so the pointer to your code is invalid ?
14:39 < mawk> try to print it, and to disassemble the data at the location
14:40 < mawk> also check the page mapping for that location to verify if it's really rx
14:40 < mawk> in /proc/$PID/maps
14:40 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: I did, and I can see my 3 instructions using x/3i $rdx
14:40 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: also did that, and the file is MMAPed with r-x
14:40 < quelqun_dautre> (r-xp exactly, whatever that means)
14:40 < mawk> alright
14:40 < mawk> you're in 64 bits ?
14:40 < quelqun_dautre> yes
14:41 < quelqun_dautre> x86_64 exactly
14:41 < mawk> yes
14:41 < mawk> could you give %rip and the address of your code ?
14:41 < mawk> how do you jmp exactly ? using jmpq *%rax with %rax containing the address of your code ?
14:42 < mawk> also, check the details of that SIGSEGV quelqun_dautre
14:42 < mawk> SIGSEGV can hide many different conditions
14:42 < mawk> I made some simple lib to preload into your program that will print these details in event of SIGSEGV
14:42 < mawk> http://gitlab.suut.in/sasha/sigsegv
14:42 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: how can I check the details of the SIGSEGV ? I'm a n00b at this
14:43 < quelqun_dautre> nice, I'll check that
14:43 < mawk> you can just copy the code into your C program
14:44 < mawk> instead of preloading it, if you want to modify it and stuff
14:49 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: woah
14:49 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: ‘struct siginfo_t’ has no member named ‘si_pkey’
14:49 < quelqun_dautre> maybe your library assumes a less old linux system ?
14:49 < acresearch> hello people, i am trying out tracepath on my arch linux, and i get half the way through then it stops and says no reply...    why? how can i get all the way through to google.com?
14:51 < mawk> yes probably quelqun_dautre
14:51 < mawk> just remove the offending lines
14:51 < mawk> pkey is for newer CPUs, quelqun_dautre
14:52 < mawk> not really newer linux kernels
14:52 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: works fine
14:52 < quelqun_dautre> thanks !!
14:53 < mawk> no problem !
14:53 < quelqun_dautre> looks like it's my first payload instruction that's wrong
14:53 < quelqun_dautre> mawk: that tool you wrote is awesome. Really, thanks a lot
14:56 < mawk> thanks
14:56 < mawk> I can also dump registers and much more stuff quelqun_dautre
14:57 < mawk> but I thought people would use gdb for that instead
14:57 < mawk> it's just that trap number I wanted to display, because it's in some private hidden structure so nobody displays it, and it's useful info
14:57 < mawk> also in case of pagefault the processor gives much more info than the bare SIGSEGV linux gives us
14:58 < mawk> you have the kind of pagefault, the offending address, some other stuff probably
14:58 < mawk> in some register
14:59 < mawk> CR3 maybe
15:00 < stevendale> 217 current pending sectors
15:00 < stevendale> (Bad ones)
15:01 < stevendale> Running dd to write zeros to the dev address should be enough to make the firmware remap right?
15:02 < mawk> the dev address ?
15:02 < mawk> firmware of who ?
15:02 < stevendale> mawk, /dev/sda
15:02 < stevendale> mawk, HDD
15:02 < mawk> what do you mean by remapping firmware ?
15:02 < stevendale> What are you talking about?
15:03 < mawk> I'm sure hdparm can do what you want to do
15:03 < mawk> that's the question I should be asking you
15:11 < watom> hey, anyone can look into this? https://pastebin.com/2cThHxKX
15:11 < watom> the notify command is just a custom script i made that send me the input...
15:11 < watom> but i really don't get anything every reboot
15:11 < watom> if i ./script it works but not in crontab
15:13 < Sitri> What does your crontab line look like?
15:14 < watom> its in the paste
15:14 < watom> @reboot sleep 1m; $HOME/script.sh
15:14 < watom> i got a sleep for 1 min since it need network to work
15:14 < Sitri> Ah, $HOME might not be set to what you think it is
15:14 < watom> should be /root...
15:14 < Sitri> Not to crond
15:15 < watom> i'm pretty sure i used to $HOME in the apst without issues
15:16 < Psi-Jack> watom: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
15:16 < Sitri> DISPLAY might not be set
15:16 < noodlepie> 4.16.5-gentoo stable here. Gentoo updated successfully today.
15:16 < Psi-Jack> And never use @reboot to make something start at boot. That's just bad.
15:16 < Sitri> watom: crontabs have a very different environment than a normal user
15:16 < watom> Psi-Jack: how i do?
15:17 < Psi-Jack> Create a proper service unit.
15:17 < watom> you mean behind systemd?
15:17 < Psi-Jack> Behind? No, using systemd.
15:17 < watom> but it's not a service. is just a one time command
15:18 < Psi-Jack> Yes, and?
15:18 < Sitri> Make it part of your X session setup scripts
15:18 < watom> well i can try
15:18 < Psi-Jack> Wait, what does this even do?
15:18 < Psi-Jack> It's on pastebin.com so I cannot see. :p
15:18 < watom> notify me some info
15:19 < triceratux> 4.15.0-20-generic here. Voyager 18.04 liveiso with kodi, clementine, parole, vlc, emeliapinball, boot-repair, grub-customiser, xfdashboard, & systemd-resolved
15:19 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: vlc? You fail.
15:20 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: its on the iso with the rest of the stuff. im a parole fan myself
15:20 < stevendale> o/
15:20 < Psi-Jack> watom: "notify you of some info?"
15:21 < watom> i want to know when a remote machine reboot
15:21 < Psi-Jack> So use proper monitoring, like zabbix?
15:21 < watom> to just know when a machine reboot? :P
15:21 < Psi-Jack> For more than just that.
15:22 < watom> would you run it on a vps?
15:22 < Psi-Jack> vps is a bling word that's meaningless.
15:23 < Psi-Jack> EIther way, you can make a one-shot systemd service that runs at startup, just the same.
15:24 < watom> yeah time to learn
15:25 < Psi-Jack> With that you can make it specifically wait to even start until after the network is running, which is better than setting an aribitrary timer.
15:25 < watom> gonna try smth
15:25 < acresearch> hello people, i am trying out tracepath on my arch linux, and i get half the way through then it stops and says no reply...    why? how can i get all the way through to google.com?
15:27 < Psi-Jack> "something" not "smth", as it does matter here.
15:29 < ice9> i'm unable to start lxd container https://bpaste.net/show/fbd1ab569d2b
15:29 < Psi-Jack> lxd is a process, not a container.
15:30 < ice9> Psi-Jack, whats the difference between lxd and lxc?
15:30 < watom> Psi-Jack: https://paste.linux.community/view/87514850
15:31 < Psi-Jack> watom: You don't need the conflicts or before.
15:31 < Psi-Jack> or the execstop
15:32 < BluesKaj> acresearch,` try traceroute instead
15:32 < acresearch> BluesKaj: ok
15:33 < BluesKaj> acresearch, you may need to install it first
15:33 < Psi-Jack> ice9: lxd is a lxc container manager
15:33 < watom> well i was trying to get a notify at shutdown too
15:34 < watom> but is working only at boot with that script
15:34 < ice9> Psi-Jack, cool then i'm unable to start the lxc container because of  the mentioned errors
15:34 < lseactuary> i have made a script using vi script.sh in my terminal. it is a pain to edit it though because i can't click and edit and pasting more text as a script is difficult. any ideas?
15:34 < lseactuary> how to make the process less painful basically :)
15:34 < watom> why? :/
15:34 < Psi-Jack> watom: Because it would never start.
15:34 < watom> what do you mean. is working at boot time
15:35 < watom> but not at shutdown time
15:35 < Psi-Jack> You don't want to "start" things at shutdown.
15:35 < watom> so how i run a command at shutdown
15:35 < Psi-Jack> You don't want to "start" things at shutdown.
15:36 < Psi-Jack> You start things at start up, not at shutdown./
15:36 < watom> well whatever it will be enough at start time
15:37 < Psi-Jack> If you wanted to get fancy, you could even have that script provide the last x lines of the journal for the previous boot, to see if it has any relevant info as to what caused the reboot.
15:38 < Psi-Jack> And just saying, but if this script emails, you might want to add an after/requires for the mail server too.
15:39 < Psi-Jack> That way you insure both network AND mail server are running. :)
15:39 < Psi-Jack> After changing After/Requires, disable and re-enable the service to insure priorities are applied.
15:40 < Psi-Jack> And Wants. :)
15:41 < watom> oh
15:41 < watom> reboot is not enough? i need enable disable?
15:41 < Psi-Jack> Disable, Enable, yes.
15:42 < Psi-Jack> Reboot doesn't change the /etc/systemd/*/{wants,after} targets.
15:42 < Psi-Jack> disabling and reenabling does.
15:42 < watom> that would explain why i was not able to fix some unit...
15:42 < Psi-Jack> heh
16:09 < promach2> I have faced this random blackout issue https://i.imgur.com/eUZzpJy.jpg very frequently these two days. My laptop is running "Linux archlinux 4.16.5-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Apr 26 16:53:40 UTC 2018 x86_64 GNU". Could anyone advise ?
16:10 < stephen77> promach2 That looks like a dying HDD to me
16:10 < stephen77> I could be wrong, you could run fsck to check
16:10 < promach2> that is not HDD, it is NVME device
16:11 < promach2> can I run fsck when I am using the device ?
16:11 < stephen77> You can set it up to that when you reboot it'll run it
16:12 < promach2> you mean startup cron job ?
16:12 < stephen77> No, like this https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fsck#Forcing_the_check
16:12 < stephen77> Under "forcing the check"
16:14 < Netham46> I'm running Arch using an nfsroot on a remote PC for my boot drive, right now if there's a hiccup on the network my PC doesn't attempt to reconnect, it just kind of hangs. Is there any way to get it to attempt to reconnect when the connection is dropped?
16:15 < Netham46> It happens fairly infrequently but it's rather obnoxious.
16:15 < promach2> stephen77: thanks for the link
16:15 < stephen77> promach2 np
16:16 < dogbert2> the usb wireless nano works pretty good in Armbian...
16:17 < dogbert2> wlan0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
16:44 < funksh0n> Hi all.
16:44 < bomb> hi
17:07 < nukem> To make a backup of / with borgbackup, must it be run as root?  Isn't that usually not advised?
17:09 < qman__> You can use sudo ajd define specific commands that are allowed to run as root
17:09 < qman__> I do this with backuppc so that only the backup procedure can be run as root
17:09 < pingfloyd> nukem: of it needs root privs for that
17:09 < nukem> hmm
17:10 < nukem> how do you mean?
17:10 < pingfloyd> otherwise there are going to be certain hierarchies you won't be able to read from since only root has even so much as read access to.
17:11 < nukem> true
17:11 < revel> nukem: Good luck backing up anything except for your home directory without root access.
17:11 < nukem> so no way of avoiding running borg as root?
17:11 < pingfloyd> you can create a user for borg (whatever that is) to run as
17:11 < nukem> revel: well some files, e.g. fstab, has read perm for others
17:11 < pingfloyd> but that user still needs the necessary access
17:11 < pnbeast> nukem, if you want to back up directories like that, you'll need root access or you can try crazy things with ACLs.
17:11 < pingfloyd> that is root access
17:11 < revel> nukem: It wouldn't be able to restore them, though, since it has no write access to it.
17:11 < qman__> nukem: http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/faq/ssh.html#how_can_client_access_as_root_be_avoided - see the "more cautious" option
17:12 < nukem> ok so when that user runs borg, it's basically the same as `sudo borg`, isn't it?
17:12 < qman__> while this is obviously backuppc and not borg, I'm sure borg can be set up similarly
17:12 < pingfloyd> nukem: it's all the same
17:12 < pnbeast> On perosnal machines, I only back up my home dir plus a couple of config files that I've copied *to* my home dir via some other process.
17:13 < pingfloyd> why the fear of using root?
17:13 < nukem> pnbeast: yeah just making a backup to reinstall a diff distro, but wanted to take the shotgun approach and back it all up, rather than have to pick out specific files (ie those which reside outside $HOME)
17:13 < nukem> pingfloyd: just because it's bad practice, I guess
17:13 < pingfloyd> the root account serves a clear purpose
17:13 < qman__> least privilege principles
17:13 < nukem> qman__: right
17:13 < pingfloyd> nukem: no it's not a bad practice to run root account when required
17:14 < qman__> it requires root to back up files, but it does not require the ability to run any program as root
17:14 < qman__> just the backup program
17:14 < qman__> so limit scope
17:14 < pingfloyd> nukem: a security best practice is to adhere to the principle of least privilege
17:14 < Jenz> Anyone know about any tool for examining /dev/* files? I dunno what half of theese files are, and I need them for some low-level input stuff
17:14 < pingfloyd> in this case, you're still adhering to that since root access is a requirement
17:15 < nukem> true
17:15 < qman__> you can get as granular as you want with sudoers, and limit it to the exact command you want run
17:15 < qman__> or leave some leeway for different options, up to you and your usecase
17:16 < qman__> I'm not worried about in-place restores so I limit backuppc to just the dump command
17:16 < pingfloyd> nukem: many new users out there think "running is root bad", they're missing the point which is really, "Using higher privs than necessary is a bad security practice".
17:17 < nukem> good point
17:17 < nukem> so the real question here is whether the program (borg) can be trusted to be run as root
17:17 < pnbeast> For example, when I hack into pingfloyd's computers, the first thing I do is assume root privs to erase the evidence from his log files.  There's no other way to clean them - root is necessary.
17:18 < junka> pingfloyd; bad phrasing is bad
17:18 < pingfloyd> nukem: now, you're thinking right
17:18 < qman__> nukem: it's whether you want to trust the entirety of the 'borg' program with all options, or limit to specific options
17:18 < Psi-Jack> nukem: I run borg as root to do full system backups on many systems.
17:18 < nukem> qman__: how would you limit the program (not the user) to only certain functions?
17:18 < pingfloyd> nukem: that is the real question (how much you trust the program/executable).
17:19 < Psi-Jack> nukem: As a backup tool, you don
17:19 < qman__> nukem: you limit the sudo access to the exact command, including options
17:19 < Psi-Jack> don't really WANT to limit it too much.
17:19 < qman__> nukem: or not, depends on what you want to do
17:19 < nukem> qman__: the limitation is placed on the user account, though, right?  e.g. to only be able to run a certain command, with certain flags, via sudo
17:19 < qman__> nukem: correct, and you use this account to run the backups
17:20 < nukem> ah
17:20 < Psi-Jack> if you're just backing up your own $HOME, that's one thing.
17:20 < qman__> so if you want it to be able to do everything borg does as root, then you just allow that, but if you only want it to run the backup procedure, specify the exact options in sudoers
17:21 < nukem> qman__: oh I see what you mean. what file do you set that in?
17:22 < nukem> Psi-Jack: right, but I want to grab /etc and perhaps /usr
17:22 < qman__> nukem: man sudoers
17:22 < Psi-Jack> nukem: What actual situation are you investigating?
17:22 < nukem> Psi-Jack: just reinstalling the OS, want to make a lazy backup
17:22 < Psi-Jack> nukem: So what's the specific problem?
17:22 < qman__> nukem: you can add to /etc/sudoers or create a file in /etc/sudoers.d (usually the better option)
17:22 < Psi-Jack> nukem: So, a one-time backup? Then, just do it.
17:22 < qman__> oh, yeah, if this is a one time backup, don't bother with any of this
17:22 < Psi-Jack> Stop adding red tape that's not necessary. LOL
17:22 < qman__> this is for regular backups
17:23 < nukem> understood; good to know though, because I do plan to setup automatic backups
17:23 < qman__> for a one time backup I wouldn't even bother with borg, just rsync it
17:23 < Psi-Jack> running things as root that need root, do as root. Using root as-if a regular user, don't do.
17:23 < triceratux> woo woo swagarch 1805 [    0.000000] Linux version 4.16.4-1-ARCH (builduser@heftig-32554) (gcc version 7.3.1 20180406 (GCC)) #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Apr 24 13:21:29 UTC 2018
17:23 < triceratux> http://pastebin.centos.org/718416/raw/
17:23 < leachim6> customers at <my hosting job> love running stuff as root
17:23 < Psi-Jack> qman__: borg is a great backup tool. Deduplication, compression, mounting any backup volume, etc.
17:23 < leachim6> I often suggest creating something like "appuser" to run noninteractive daemons
17:24 < qman__> yes, but if you're doing a one-time backup for a reinstall, rsync is more than adequate, and doesn't require any setup
17:24 < Psi-Jack> borg doesn't require any setup either. Not really.
17:24 < pingfloyd> nukem: there's really no difference between going the sudoers route or running the executable directly as root user here, other than logging the access and command ran with sudo etc.
17:24 < leachim6> rsync is the file copy swiss army knife, learn it, love it
17:24 < qman__> a lot more than rsync
17:24 < Psi-Jack> "a lot?" No.
17:24 < qman__> yes
17:24 < qman__> rsync requires zero configuraiton
17:24 < Psi-Jack> borg init, borg .
17:24 < qman__> just install the package
17:24 < Psi-Jack> Done. :)
17:25 < pingfloyd> same unfettered access either way to borg
17:25 < nukem> pingfloyd: in which case are those things logged? former, or lattter?
17:25 < leachim6> I try to learn to do the tasks with the most common tools, because I work on hundreds of environments at work, and you can't really guarantee anything other than coreutils is installed
17:25 < leachim6> but yeah, if it's your own gear, why not try it?
17:25 < qman__> any amount of setup is by definition a lot more than zero
17:26 < uplime> what if its just 1 setup
17:26 < Psi-Jack> One step versus 10 steps is a huge difference. :p
17:26 < Psi-Jack> That he could even re-use and continue to use if he so chose to do so. :)
17:26 < nukem> borg is awesome because it is (can be) quite simple, or can be complex
17:27 < pingfloyd> I use rsync directly for backups
17:27 < Psi-Jack> Exactly.
17:27 < nukem> pingfloyd: I typically do, also
17:27 < pnbeast> That it can be complex is a feature, now?
17:27 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Well, you should look into borg backup then. :)
17:27 < pingfloyd> have my nice backup bash script for that
17:27 < nukem> pnbeast: complex != complicated
17:27 < pnbeast> nukem, oh, okay.
17:27 < qman__> my regular backup system is backuppc, becuase I also need windows support
17:28 < qman__> when I just need to take a single backup copy of something quickly, I use rsync
17:28 < pnbeast> Lie down with the dogs, you get fleas...
17:28 < Psi-Jack> qman__: Remove Windows. Problem solved. :)
17:28 < nukem> trying to learn a bit of bash scripting. does $conf{} mean anything to yall?  saw it on the backuppc site and curious what it's use is
17:28 < ananke> hah. that was the first thing I checked: windows support, or rather lack of thereof
17:28 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Heh, I actually personally use borgmatic, a wrapper for borgbackup to configure a backup plan with yaml.
17:29 < qman__> nukem: that's perl
17:29 < pnbeast> nukem, I haven't been following this, but if you're using Linux more than just to show your friends how l33t you are, you should definitely know rsync basics.
17:29 < nukem> Psi-Jack: I should look into that.  been writing a custom script.
17:29 < qman__> nukem: (most of backuppc is perl)
17:29 < pnbeast> Whether you want to use it for your specific backup chore is up to you, obviously, but you should know it.
17:29 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Yeah, borgmatic is pretty simple, and sweet.
17:29 < nukem> pnbeast: I know/use rsync
17:29 < pnbeast> Oh, sorry, then.
17:30 < ananke> finding a decent & free backup solution that covers both linux and windows is often a challenge
17:30 < pingfloyd> nukem: I'd rather know exactly how my backup works than have it abstracted.
17:30 < pingfloyd> nukem: that can make a huge difference in how restoring goes and under what circumstances.
17:30 < qman__> ananke: backuppc is the best one I've found so far, it has its quirks and limits but gets the job done
17:31 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: That's just it. I know how my backups work.
17:31 < ananke> qman__: thanks, I'll have to look back into it
17:31 < qman__> ananke: I use rsync as the linux method and rsyncd for windows (which isn't secure, unfortunately, but I haven't had good luck with SMB)
17:31 < Psi-Jack> And I have tested and used it to restore a full system back to operational state. :)
17:31 < nukem> pingfloyd: I feel the same way, which is why I have been writing the script instead of using a wrapper, so far
17:33 < pingfloyd> nukem: take rsync for example. The bare bones requirement for restore is having cp around (which is on every sane unix-like).
17:33 < Psi-Jack> I mean, I can also see what all borgmatic is doing by running borgmatic, and looking at how it ran borg, because it has everything there. :)
17:34 < Psi-Jack> As for restore, I used archiso to generate an arch-based ISO image that includes borgbackup that I can use to put on my multi-boot USB, boot, and restore.
17:35 < nukem> why not just use a standard live usb ?
17:35 < Psi-Jack> And with 3 months worth of full system backups of both desktop and laptop consuming only 42GB, that's not bad.
17:35 < qman__> because most standard live USBs don't have borg
17:36 < qman__> but they do have rsync
17:36 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Because, my multi-boot USB I configured to allow me to boot various things. my ArchISO recovery, SystemRescueCd, SpinRite, various linux distro installations, etc.
17:36 < pingfloyd> and what doesn't have cp?
17:36 < nukem> Psi-Jack: sounds interesting
17:36 < Psi-Jack> :)
17:36 < pingfloyd> you don't have to use rsync to restore you know
17:36 < Psi-Jack> nukem: It's a customized grub.
17:36 < rascul> you don't need cp if you have sh ;)
17:36 < pingfloyd> all you have to be able to do is copy files
17:37 < nukem> Psi-Jack: all done thru archiso
17:37 < nukem> ?
17:37 < Psi-Jack> The grub configuration uses a lot of if's to determine what ISO's are found, and builds the boot menu based on that.
17:37 < Psi-Jack> nukem: just the recovery ISO I made.
17:37 < pingfloyd> of course you're probably going to restore with rsync if it around, but it's not a requirement
17:37 < qman__> yeah, rsync just makes it easier
17:37 < pingfloyd> minimal requirements are a good thing with backups so that you can restore under the worst of situations
17:37 < funksh0n> Psi-Jack: how did configure the bootloaders for your multiboot?  Are any of the OSes 'intalled' or are they live?
17:38 < Psi-Jack> funksh0n: My multi-boot is grub-based, installed directly on the USB. It loopmount boots ISOs.
17:38 < rascul> Psi-Jack probably has this all automated to the point where he can just blink his eyes in a prearranged manner and this restore process is done automagically
17:38 < nukem> Psi-Jack: so you have several partitions on the USB stick, each with separate installations of various distros/tools ?
17:38 < Psi-Jack> rascul: Almost. :)
17:39 < qman__> I do something similar but via netboot
17:39 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Nope. As just mentioned. It loopmount boots ISOs I've configured specifically.
17:39 < rascul> Psi-Jack haven't figured out the blink code yet?
17:39 < nukem> Psi-Jack: not familiar with that
17:39 < Psi-Jack> rascul: Well, I have a camera facing me.
17:39 < Psi-Jack> heh
17:39 < qman__> so you just pxe boot, and have a choice of a few different things, systemrescuecd, various distro installers, etc
17:39 < rascul> just gotta set it up ;)
17:39 < ananke> so in summary, anything can be effortless if you previously put in a metric ton of effort in preparing it
17:40 < ananke> noted
17:40 < nukem> ananke: yep
17:40 < funksh0n> Psi-Jack: does it support persistence?  I assume not.
17:40 < Psi-Jack> No. No need.
17:40 < nukem> Psi-Jack: so it creates a live environment of whichever ISO you select in the grub menu?
17:40 < Psi-Jack> I could if I wanted, but I don't.
17:41 < Psi-Jack> nukem: What's a "live environment?" :p
17:41 < nukem> Psi-Jack: one that's not permanently installed; purely exists in RAM
17:41 < Psi-Jack> nukem: It loopmounts an ISO image as-if a CDROM drive.
17:42 < nukem> right on
17:42 < Psi-Jack> Boots the kernel with appropriately specific options needed for each different one. Boots. ;)
17:42 < nukem> idk what loopmount is, though
17:42 < funksh0n> ^
17:43  * funksh0n pulls up a chair and pays attention
17:43 < nukem> what'd you use to set that USB stick up, to be capable of doing that?
17:43 < Psi-Jack> Instead of using a CDROM/DVDROM/etc, it "mounts" the ISO as if a drive.
17:43 < Psi-Jack> Just grub.
17:43 < funksh0n> neat
17:44 < nukem> so you copy a bunch of ISOs to the USB, then run grub config on a partition in the USB drive?
17:44 < nukem> and make that partition bootable
17:44 < Psi-Jack> Sorta kinda, but there's no "running" anything, just editing and maintaining my grub.cfg file accordingly.
17:44 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, having an issue mounting  my USB at the moment, to be able to show you. heh
17:44 < ananke> it would be nice to have a tool to do that: 'select popular tools/distros X, Y, Z; automatically downloads latest isos; makes a multi-boot usb image'
17:45 < Psi-Jack> ananke: Would be nice. ArchWiki had a nice section on multi-boot USB, until they ripped it out and destroyed it.
17:45 < Psi-Jack> But, it's still in the wiki history.
17:45 < nukem> Psi-Jack: I thought you edit the grub config file, then run a command to have grub rebuild
17:45 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
17:45 < Psi-Jack> That update-grub or whatever similar tool, GENERATES a grub.cfg
17:46 < Psi-Jack> That's it.
17:46 < Psi-Jack> You can manually manage the grub.cfg yourself, which I do.
17:46 < nukem> true
17:46 < ananke> Psi-Jack: yeah, I'm familiar enough with what's involved, but I don't do it often enough. consequently, it's a chore to do that every few months
17:46 < nukem> well, I think some distros, e.g. Ubuntu, run `update-grub` after installing a new kernel
17:46 < nukem> which will overwrite your changes
17:46 < nukem> hence you need to put them in the file which the command reads from
17:47 < pingfloyd> nukem: normally you edit /etc/default/grub and then run update-grub or grub-mkconfig -o ...
17:48 < Psi-Jack> ananke: Once you have enough distros configured, it's not so bad. Hence why I do an if...block for everything so I have a history and can copy/paste newer versions in.
17:48 < nukem> pingfloyd: yeah
17:48 < kerrhau> hey, I was messing with my fonts in /etc/fonts and now my fonts look terrible, is there any way to restore the defaults?
17:48 < Psi-Jack> IF an ISO exists, it generates the menu item for it, if not, it doesn't. But keeping that there makes maintenance easy. :)
17:49 < Psi-Jack> Distros don't change much about their boot process very often. And if they do, it's usually a mild change.
17:49 < nukem> Psi-Jack: that code resides in your grub config file, or a script?
17:49 < Psi-Jack> It's literally just grub.cfg
17:49 < Psi-Jack> You can write essentially bash-like code in grub.cfg
17:50 < nukem> ah
17:50 < nukem> I see that, now, looking at it
17:51 < Psi-Jack> Huh, neither of my two USB's are showing me a block device to mount right now. Odd. LOL
17:52 < Psi-Jack> Eh well, I'll let my laptop finish running its backup, since it depends on my desktop's borg repo to back up to, (which then uses syncthing to backup to my NAS)
17:53 < nukem> done that way so that you have 3 copies?
17:53 < nukem> why not just backup to NAS directly?
17:53 < Psi-Jack> I use borg over ssh, my NAS can't install borg to do borg serv over ssh.
17:54 < Psi-Jack> And it's a laptop, don't want persistent network mounts.
17:55 < Psi-Jack> I am, though, likely to setup a VM that's better suited for it removing the dependancy on my desktop being up. This is just for my desktop and laptop. :)
17:55 < nukem> ah so you SSH to your desktop and then run `borg serve`?
17:55 < Psi-Jack> Well, borg does that automatically, similarly to how rsync works.
17:56 < nukem> I ask b/c I have a similar setup, except that I'm using network mounts to backup directly to the NAS
17:56 < Psi-Jack> To rsync, you have to have rsync installed on both systems.
17:56 < nukem> Psi-Jack: not if you use a network mount
17:56 < Psi-Jack> That is true.
17:56 < Psi-Jack> But, ssh tunneling provides end-to-end encryption too. :)
17:56 < nukem> I haven't used borg through SSH. asking, so that I learn
17:56 < nukem> yeah but do you need encryption on your home network?
17:56 < phogg> sshfs also provides such encryption
17:57 < Psi-Jack> When you use borg to a ssh endpoint, it basically runs ssh host borg serve *args
17:57 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, but sshfs is nasssty.
17:57 < nukem> ah so you don't have to login to the remote host first, to run `borg serve`?
17:57 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Correct.
17:58 < nukem> what's the syntax for a borg ssh connection ?
17:58 < Psi-Jack> At work, we setup a server just for my team, and we use borgbackup now to back up our workstations do it. :)
17:58 < nukem> nice
17:58 < Psi-Jack> ssh://hostname/path::backupname
17:58 < nukem> ah
17:58 < Psi-Jack> Too easy. :)
17:59 < Psi-Jack> to it*
17:59 < junka> do it
17:59 < Psi-Jack> Needless to say.... I use the heck outta borgbackup. :)
18:00 < nukem> it's awesome
18:00 < dogbert2> LOL
18:00 < Psi-Jack> From my NAS, there's a job to sync the borg repo up to backblaze's b2 every night, so I have multiple on-site, and one off-site backup.
18:00 < nukem> thinking I'll do that as well
18:00 < nukem> I currently backup my desktop to crashplan
18:00 < nukem> need to backup my NAS tho
18:01 < dogbert2> heh...only have a libre computer as a test/dev box...SBC's can just be re-imaged quickly :)
18:01 < nukem> maybe copy the borg repos, but also do borg backup to b2 with encryption for the linux ISOs
18:01 < nukem> SBC?
18:02 < dogbert2> SBC - Single Board Computer (RPi, Orange/BananaPI, ODroid, Libre, clones, etc)
18:02 < Psi-Jack> Beh..
18:02 < Psi-Jack> I used to use crashplan.
18:02 < Psi-Jack> until they took away the Home plan.
18:03 < Psi-Jack> dogbert2: Hmmm... Many desktop motherboards can be an "SBC" too. :p
18:03 < dogbert2> true :P
18:03 < Psi-Jack> So, SBC is a bling word in my book.
18:03 < dogbert2> how about SoC - (system on a chip) :P
18:03 < Psi-Jack> dogbert2: Well, with a RPi, it's not on a chip. It's on an SSD. :p
18:04 < nukem> y'all happen to know whether proprietary nvidia drivers play nicely with Wayland now?
18:04 < dogbert2> LOL...ok...bbiab...hafta give someone a ride...
18:04 < pingfloyd> I just wrote him off as a Southern Baptist Church lunatic at first
18:04 < Psi-Jack> That's what she said!
18:04 < nukem> switching this box from ubuntu 16.04 to fedora 27, which uses wayland
18:04 < nukem> maybe i ought to just go w/ arch/antergos
18:05 < Psi-Jack> nukem: It "works", I've used it. Dunno if it was all that, though.
18:05 < Psi-Jack> Synergy didn't work in Wayland, so, I didn't use Wayland.
18:05 < nukem> Psi-Jack: arch?
18:05 < Psi-Jack> Fedora at the time.
18:05 < nukem> so you can still run fedora w/ X11?
18:05 < pingfloyd> why do you need to go arch?
18:05 < Psi-Jack> Of course.
18:05 < SuperSeriousCat> Any specific reason you want Wayland or is it just because it is the successor?
18:06 < nukem> SuperSeriousCat: b/c it's the default; I don't really want it
18:06 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Fedora (gnome edition), starts gdm with Wayland, then switched to Xorg.
18:06 < Psi-Jack> "because", not "b/c", please.
18:06 < nukem> in fact, couldn't get Chrome Remote Desktop to work on it, last I tried (supposedly, it can't do any virtual desktop)
18:07 < SuperSeriousCat> That is a security thing. You will have a hard time screen capture wayland as it is now. Or atleast was
18:07 < junka> yes
18:08 < nukem> SuperSeriousCat: meaning that it might support it, as of today?  previously, it borked things royally
18:08 < Psi-Jack> More like that's just a lack of supporting software thing.
18:08 < nukem> can you not even screenshot in wayland?
18:09 < Psi-Jack> Like, the reason Synergy didn't work is because, it didn't understand the edges of the screen in Wayland, because Xorg geometry wasn't there.
18:09 < amosbird> Hi, how can I get LLC misses, remote memory access ratio and avg memory access latency ?
18:09 < nukem> Synergy looks interesting
18:09 < Psi-Jack> I use the hell out of Synergy. LOL
18:09 < nukem> Psi-Jack: you run arch now, or what?
18:10 < Psi-Jack> I do.
18:10 < triceratux> in the former cccp arch ran YOU
18:10 < nukem> lol
18:11 < nukem> guess I ought to wait a couple days for FC28 launch
18:11 < nukem> or just give antergos a try
18:11 < triceratux> manjaro is going to pass mint on distrowatch in just a few days
18:12 < nukem> I saw that.. but not sure I like that manjaro has separate repos
18:12 < Psi-Jack> Antergos is pretty good. Pretty heavy post-install setup to do with Arch in general to get it to be what YOU want it to be, but, if you're knowledable enough of what you want, and how to do it, it can be pretty good.
18:12 < Psi-Jack> Never manjaro. Ever.
18:12 < SuperSeriousCat> I recommend Gentoo. It is exactly what you make of it, neatly packaged in an almost failsafe wrapping
18:12 < Psi-Jack> Never gentoo! Unless you just are masochistic and need to be punished regularly.
18:12 < nukem> SuperSeriousCat: yeah but how labor-intensive is it to have to compile everything?
18:12 < dgurney> it's not labor intensive in any way
18:13 < pingfloyd> why take half measures if you're going to go down that road?
18:13 < dgurney> it's time-intensive
18:13 < touch-my-ellipti> I like Antergos. Easy install compared to Arch
18:13 < nukem> what I meant
18:13 < SuperSeriousCat> With todays CPU the building is no issue imo
18:13 < pingfloyd> time and resource intensive
18:13 < mawk> what do you think about debian Psi-Jack ?
18:13 < junka> Psi-Jack; thank you for involuntary helping me find a "better" distro
18:13 < dgurney> it's not a problem, but if you don't feel like waiting, Gentoo isn't for you
18:14 < Psi-Jack> And a great way to see just how stable your CPU really is. Lots of intensive compiling can send some CPU's into nice little crashes.
18:14 < Psi-Jack> junka: I don't recommend Arch.
18:14 < Psi-Jack> It sucks. Don't do it.
18:14 < pingfloyd> now he's going to spread, "Psi-Jack recommends arch!"
18:14 < mawk> lol
18:14 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Since they finally got their heads outa their asses about Firefox and such. I can recommend Debian again.
18:14 < kazdax> i7 7th geenration isa good CPU ?
18:14 < kazdax> generation *
18:14 < dgurney> no joke, half of the testing for my 7600k's 4.9GHz overclock was seeing if building tons of stuff caused issues
18:15 < dgurney> it's a good cpu, but not a good value anyore if buying new
18:15 < pingfloyd> the firefox thing was braindead to begin with.
18:15 < kazdax> no i am buying refurbished
18:15 < pingfloyd> I've always gone upstream for firefox though
18:15 < nukem> Psi-Jack: so you mean that Antergos has a bunch of bloat?
18:15 < pingfloyd> why wouldn't you want to
18:15 < sauvin> What was this "firefox thing"?
18:15 < dgurney> Iceweasel (right?)
18:15 < Psi-Jack> nukem: No. I may use Arch. I just don't recommend it. :)
18:15 < junka> iceweasel
18:15 < triceratux> militantly unbranded
18:16 < pingfloyd> sauvin: Debian's OCD back when
18:16 < sauvin> Oh, that? A bagatelle.
18:16 < kazdax> why dont you recommend arch ?
18:16 < nukem> Psi-Jack: specifically, why not?
18:16 < dgurney> the only thing I recommend is trying multiple distros and see what you like the most
18:16 < dgurney> but I'm sure I've said that before
18:16 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: It's this very insecure web browser that always looses in pwn2own, causing people to get rich off its vulnerabilities.
18:16 < junka> Hanna Montana?
18:16 < Psi-Jack> nukem: It's not hands off.
18:16 < kazdax> for me basiclly distros just emant thwat had a better driver support and package mananager
18:17 < kazdax> the freebsd port system is quite cool even tho its not linux..does a linux have something similer to ports ?
18:17 < nukem> Psi-Jack: in the sense that updates tend to break things occasionally?
18:17 < kazdax> where you have to compile the source
18:17 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: Gentoo does, sorta.
18:17 < kazdax> nice
18:17 < junka> Psi-Jack; now help me find a better DE
18:17 < sauvin> KDE.
18:17 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Correct. And in the sense, if you want to use anything from AUR< and you want to use it on multiple systems you maintain, you have to do all the steps yourself to build a repo, maintain the repo, configure y our aur wrapper, if you use one, to build packages to it, etc.
18:17 < undefbeh>  how do I change close lid not suspend on gnome
18:17 < pingfloyd> junka: xfce
18:17 < kazdax> i use KDE
18:18 < Psi-Jack> XFCE, for sure.
18:18 < nukem> Psi-Jack: prefer to be closer to bleeding edge than Ubuntu, but also stable. fedora seems like it suits, agree? 6mo update timeline. sampling various packages, looks like it stays fairly close to latest
18:18 < dgurney> the best others can do is give you names, but you have to actually find the right one yourself
18:18 < pingfloyd> what I like about xfce is it just has the minimal desktop bloat that are features I actually care about having
18:18 < Psi-Jack> nukem: 6mo + in between updates too. Kernel updates, various desktop software updates, etc.
18:18 < undefbeh> KDE is awesome!
18:18 < nukem> Psi-Jack: yeah the thing that discourages me is my paranoia, so I would want to review all PKGBUILD and .install changes every time it updates
18:18 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Fedora's a great distro.
18:18 < sauvin> Fedora ain't exactly a poster child for stability.
18:18 < SuperSeriousCat> I assume Ubuntu 18.04 i fairly updated now
18:18 < pingfloyd> and not too many features that are needless bloat
18:18 < undefbeh> wait it crashed again. brb. relogging from gnome
18:18 < Psi-Jack> Fedora is rock solid stable.
18:18 < junka> dgurney; you are always like that?
18:19 < pingfloyd> one man's bloat is another man's gold though
18:19 < dgurney> yes
18:19 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: That was true, pre F18.
18:19 < nukem> Psi-Jack: 6 months is better than 2 years with Ubuntu (since I don't necessarily like the point releases)
18:19 < undefbeh> nukem: arch.
18:19 < Psi-Jack> F18-now, it's been a distro /I/ can recommend, which coming from me says something, as I'm very picky. :)
18:19 < dgurney> fedora is good
18:19 < undefbeh> arch is better
18:19 < pingfloyd> ootb, xfce usually is pretty ugly looking, but a little tweaking and it can look nice.
18:20 < Psi-Jack> SOMETIMES Fedora breaks something. Like one time they broke ghostscript, so for about a month, I couldn't print, but they fixed it.
18:20 < junka> a month with no printer?!?!
18:20 < undefbeh> fedora is a testing platform for RHEL
18:20 < Psi-Jack> Yep.
18:20 < junka> my boss would fire me in hours
18:20 < hendrix> ouch
18:20 < Psi-Jack> undefbeh: It is not.
18:20 < undefbeh> junka: haha
18:20 < Psi-Jack> undefbeh: Stop with the FUD/Lies about it. seriously.
18:21 < undefbeh> junka: thats why you dont use linux at work place
18:21 < Psi-Jack> I use Linux at my work place.
18:21 < Psi-Jack> In fact. I use Arch, at work. On my desktop and laptop.
18:21 < dgurney> I use Gentoo on everything that I use Linux on
18:22 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: That must be painful.
18:22 < dgurney> it's not
18:22 < sauvin> Yeah, that gotta hurt.
18:22 < Psi-Jack> Do you compile to your own repository of binary tgz packages?
18:22 < dgurney> the only time I know it's gentoo is when it's updating
18:22 < dgurney> why would I do that
18:22 < Psi-Jack> Why would you not do that? :p
18:22 < nukem> Psi-Jack: are there 'stable', fairly set-and-forget, distros which have more frequent updates than the 6mo for Fedora?
18:23 < Psi-Jack> nukem: openSUSE.
18:23 < kazdax> i like debian but i havnt really used other distros
18:23 < dgurney> because that'd take more space, plus making binary packages takes extra time
18:23 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: And compiling doesn't?
18:23 < Psi-Jack> :p
18:23 < sauvin> I HAVE used other distros and now tend to stick with Debian and Ubuntu.
18:23 < triceratux> nukem: ALTlinux sisyphus weeklies http://mirror.yandex.ru/altlinux-nightly/snapshots/20180425/
18:24 < noodlepie> Gentoo is slightly more fun than Debian
18:24 < sauvin> With Ubuntu, though, stick with the .04 releases. The .10 releases can be wobbly.
18:24 < dgurney> Psi-Jack, true, but I don't need to add more to the time it already takes
18:24 < noodlepie> If you have the cycles to use, its quite good
18:24 < noodlepie> Debian on older machines though
18:24 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: I one time had the fun task of managing Gentoo /servers/. Servers that weren't kept up-to-date like they should to the point the release build they were using was no longer even there. The ONLY upgrade path was to build binary packages to update all the systems to do so as sanely and safely as possible.
18:24 < pingfloyd> doesn't that take away a lot of the point of using gentoo though?
18:24 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: If you have 2+ systems you're running Gentoo on, you save hours.
18:24 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Not really.
18:25 < undefbeh> I have a budget of around $1k. what laptop should I buy (I wont be making any investments for years, so this has to be one rock solid laptop for once)
18:25 < pingfloyd> I mean if you're going to have an archive of (one size fits all) binaries, might as well have gone binary based dist to begin with at that point.
18:25 < nukem> undefbeh: do any gaming?
18:25 < Psi-Jack> Hehe
18:25 < pingfloyd> but really, you might as well have gone binary based to begin with anyway.
18:25 < kazdax> i think a dell
18:25 < dgurney> Psi-Jack, that doesn't work for me, because on most machines I have different use flags
18:25 < kazdax> dell refurbish
18:25 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Valid point. Except it's built how YOU want them for YOUR hardware. LOL
18:25 < kazdax> i was getting a refirbish dell
18:25 < Psi-Jack> Like that means something..
18:26 < undefbeh> nukem: yea. casually playing gta 5 or dota 2.
18:26 < pingfloyd> the needle of pragmatism always ends up landing there
18:26 < undefbeh> or cs go
18:26 < kazdax> with SSD128 1tb hdd , 16 gig ram , i7 7th generation
18:26 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: Well, that's just silly. :p
18:26 < undefbeh> kazdax: xps?
18:26 < kazdax> yes i think it was an xps
18:26 < dgurney> and well, that update story doesn't sound too nice :/ that's why I update multiple times a week myself, to avoid trouble (and having to build tons of stuff at once)
18:26 < kazdax> not sure but since you want gaming
18:26 < undefbeh> I am thinking of the macbook pro. because I can then install linux on it or in vm
18:26 < kazdax> that was for 600 bucks
18:26 < pingfloyd> Psi-Jack: for a .000001% gain in performance!!!
18:26 < undefbeh> but if I buy windows laptop I cant install macOS on it
18:27 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: If even that much!
18:27 < kazdax> whyd o you want mcOS ?
18:27 < kazdax> mac
18:27 < nukem> Psi-Jack: so maintaining your own AUR repo is a PITA?
18:27 < undefbeh> kazdax: iOS and web development
18:27 < kazdax> ahh i see
18:27 < Heston> anyone know how I could do something like `dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=| sha256sum` ?
18:27 < undefbeh> kazdax: and in general macOS is a much better choice than windows :D.
18:28 < kazdax> that i have to agree with
18:28 < undefbeh> kazdax: I will be dual booting or keeping linux in vm
18:28 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Eh, not so much. I use yay for my AUR wrapper. pacman is configured to build binary packages. yay utilizes that, retains them, and I sync those to a repository server VM. It's automatable pretty easilly basically.
18:28 < undefbeh> kazdax: have you tried macOS ?
18:28 < kazdax> nope
18:28 < kazdax> well maybe a few mintues when i was in the Apple store
18:28 < Psi-Jack> nukem: But, if it breaks, it's up to me to figure out why.
18:28 < kazdax> but not for prolong time
18:28 < kazdax> is it nice ?
18:28 < pingfloyd> undefbeh: Macos is even worse than windows
18:28 < dgurney> well, at least I was never stupid enough to think building with -march=native makes a massive difference lol
18:28 < nukem> Psi-Jack: in lieu of simply building the packages individually for each machine?
18:28 < kazdax> i could try getting a refusrbish macbook pro
18:28 < Psi-Jack> That I disagree, macOS is WAY better than Windows.
18:28 < kazdax> can i run linux on it dual boot ?
18:29 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Yep.
18:29 < nukem> Psi-Jack: what are your thougts on Tumbleweed?
18:29 < undefbeh> pingfloyd: no way. are you serious? It is unix so its near to linux
18:29 < Psi-Jack> nukem: I have 4 systems I run Arch on.
18:29 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, in what way?
18:29 < undefbeh> pingfloyd: + polished GUI.
18:29 < pingfloyd> undefbeh: it is Apple so way worse than anything
18:29 < Psi-Jack> nukem: You don't need it. You can run specific groups of things from Tumbleweed on LEAP.
18:29 < kazdax> i like the extra pixels it gives from its mac book
18:29 < kazdax> it makes the desktop look real nice
18:29 < undefbeh> ah you can hate on company but I am talking about OS
18:29 < pingfloyd> It's like comparing Russia and North Korea
18:29 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Pretty much every way. Security, stability, usability, consistency.
18:30 < undefbeh> what would be linux in map? pingfloyd :D
18:30 < pingfloyd> NK is worse, but you don't want to live in either country really
18:30 < mawk> I'd live in russia
18:30 < Psi-Jack> mawk: Give me your keys!
18:30 < undefbeh> ^ +1
18:30 < pingfloyd> mawk: if you currently live somewhere worse, sure
18:30 < pingfloyd> mawk: such as NK
18:30 < undefbeh> russia has hot girls
18:30 < kazdax> i heard in russia the ISPs filter your webs search content
18:30 < mawk> :(
18:30 < Psi-Jack> kazdax: They block entire services, like Telegram.
18:31 < Psi-Jack> By blocking all of AWS
18:31 < Psi-Jack> And all of Google Cloud
18:31 < BluesKaj> yeah input for putin
18:31 < undefbeh> I live in india. so living in russia would be better choice
18:31 < kazdax> India is had if you got no money :D
18:31 < kazdax> bad
18:31 < kazdax> being poor and being in India is hell
18:31 < SuperSeriousCat> And if you need to commute a lot
18:31 < undefbeh> pingfloyd: where would you put linux on map
18:32 < sauvin> That's kinda funny to say because Russia, looks to me, like it's overrun with every kind of porn, and I *do* mean EVERY kind.
18:32 < pingfloyd> yeah, there's no class war in India.  The poor were slaughtered a long time ago there.
18:32 < undefbeh> SuperSeriousCat: more than half of my salary goes in commuting to office
18:32 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: LOL
18:32 < kazdax> this place in UP called jarkhand is where most children die of mal nutrition
18:32 < triceratux> https://ubuntulife.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/linux-world-map-large.png
18:32 < watom> so i'm trying to get a nice date+time output. do you find this correct?
18:32 < watom> date "+%a %d %b, %H:%M"
18:32 < Psi-Jack> watom: "correct" in terms of what?
18:32 < dgurney> what is a nice date+time output?
18:32 < watom> syntax
18:32 < sauvin> watom, what does it produce, and what don't you like about it?
18:32 < watom> the output is fine
18:33 < mawk> if it works it should be correct watom
18:33 < watom> example
18:33 < undefbeh> omg
18:33 < watom> Sun 29 Apr, 18:33
18:33 < nukem> prefer ISO
18:33 < undefbeh> gnome is sucking my battery so fast. I have tlp installed. is tlp not working in gnome?
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Syntax is correct.
18:33 < undefbeh> it works fine in i3
18:33 < dgurney> neat
18:33 < dgurney> do you like it?
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Format, that's your choice.
18:33 < watom> i like it.
18:33 < dgurney> good, then it's obviously correct
18:33 < sauvin> I kinda like timestamps like 201804291833 :D
18:34 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: 875783347983
18:34 < Psi-Jack> :)
18:34 < nukem> undefbeh: what are you using to deduce that it's Gnome?
18:34 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, don't recognise that format.
18:34 < nukem> Psi-Jack: epoch time?
18:34 < Psi-Jack> It's random numbers. ;)
18:34 < sauvin> Heh.
18:34 < undefbeh> nukem: I run same apps on i3
18:34 < undefbeh> also
18:34 < undefbeh> ..
18:34 < nukem> https://currentmillis.com/
18:34 < Psi-Jack> That's what I see when I see unseparated timestamps like that.
18:35 < Psi-Jack> At least add dashes! :)
18:35 < Psi-Jack> 2018-04-29_18-33
18:35 < nukem> there's an ISO standard for time display
18:35 < nukem> ISO 8601 I think
18:35 < nukem> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
18:35 < Psi-Jack> There's an ISO standard of how to fart in an elevator.
18:35 < sauvin> Dashes often frustrate me when I use them in filenames.
18:35 < nukem> same.. periods are an option
18:36 < Psi-Jack> That's what tab completion is for.
18:36 < nukem> 20180429_1136
18:36 < sauvin> I suppose underscores would work just as well.
18:36 < Psi-Jack> nukem: Even THAT is slightly better, :)
18:37 < pnbeast> I try to always use a combination of slashes and backslashes.  It ensures that my Windows colleagues and Unix colleagues will all be annoyed.
18:39 < Psi-Jack> Spaces too, yes?
18:39 < phogg> you don't need slashes or backslashes. ISO8601 doesn't permit them. Anyway, nice date time output is easy: date -uIs
18:39 < phogg> or omit the u if you like local zones
18:39 < Psi-Jack> I don't mind dashes, underscores, spaces, colons, etc.
18:39 < Psi-Jack> Because.... TAB!
18:39 < junka> i hate all distros, i hate all this freedom i get, i want back to windows pls
18:39 < rypervenche> I personally like date +%F_%T
18:40 < phogg> I love using {, }, : and $ in file names to freak out Windows users.
18:40 < phogg> rypervenche: this is not permitted by ISO8601. You can use T or a space.
18:40 < phogg> and you *should* include a zone, or I will be forced to assume +0000
18:40 < rypervenche> phogg: Aye, and it's likely what I'll be using moving forward to make it easier to convert times using the date command.
18:41 < rypervenche> I learned about this about a month ago.
18:42 < rypervenche> date -Is is what I'll use, I suppose then.
18:47 < Psi-Jack> Mmmm.. This new sexy hypervisor environment I managed to get done this weekend is pretty freaking nice. :)
18:49 < mawk> using what ?
18:50 < Psi-Jack> Proxmox VE which was already there, Ceph which was already there. Added Ceph SSD Cache Tiering for performance, added CloudInit for somewhat automated provisioning of template deployments, including starting up salt-minions to allow fully automated deployments.
18:50 < Psi-Jack> Near fully anyway.
18:50 < Schmeckle> Hi
18:51 < Psi-Jack> CloudInit in PVE is limited to just basic networking setup and  primary default user, but it'll have more in time, like userdata scripts for initial launch.
18:52 < Schmeckle> Anyone willing to help a newbie configure OpenVPN to automatically establish VPN connection on startup? Running PureOS and OpenVPN is already set up and working.
18:52 < pingfloyd> I use date "+%y%m%dT%H%M%S" for naming my backups
18:53 < Psi-Jack> Schmeckle: Does PureOS use systemd?
18:53 < Psi-Jack> And, is this a desktop? Looks like a desktop OS
18:54 < pingfloyd> yymmdd is counter intuitive to me because of being in the US, but it makes the most sense for file naming
18:54 < pingfloyd> here the norm is mmddyy
18:54 < dgurney> it does use systemd
18:54 < rypervenche> yyyymmdd is great for sorting.
18:55 < Psi-Jack> Well, if it's a desktop, I'd just say, use the power of NetworkManager.
18:55 < Psi-Jack> It has OpenVPN support, and you can tell it to autoconnect.
18:55 < mawk> what's NAPI and NAPI_FRAGS in the context of tun device ?
18:55 < MrElendig> or  you could use a openvpn@someprofile.service
18:55 < Psi-Jack> That too.
18:57 < timdiels> According to Debian wiki a LUKS passphrase can stop working 'somehow', it gave me the idea that it would stop working for no reason. It seems to me the only way it would permanently stop accepting the passphrase if (part of) the LUKS header gets corrupted, can anyone confirm? https://wiki.debian.org/LVM#Encrypted_LVM
18:57 < BluesKaj> Schmeckle, which vpn service? usually they provide a downloadable installer for their GUI and if not then place the .ovpn files in /etc/openvpn.  Indtall network-manager-openvpn
18:57 < mawk> indeed
18:57 < BluesKaj> install
19:02 < Schmeckle> Thanks for your answer. I already set it up that way and the VPN is working. I just don't want to explicitly select a server and connect when booting up. I want to establish a VPN connection when the system boots
19:02 < Schmeckle> Or when I am logging in rather
19:02 < BluesKaj> which OS Schmeckle ?
19:03 < Schmeckle> PureOS
19:03 < rypervenche> timdiels: It would be if you forgot your password. A password will not suddenly stop working. And make sure you backup your LUKS headers as well. Because if that gets corrupt, then it could "stop working" :)
19:03 < BluesKaj> is that debian based?
19:03 < BluesKaj> Schmeckle,^
19:03 < Schmeckle> I think so. to be honest I do not 100% know, I am still relatively new to linux. How do I find out
19:04 < BluesKaj> which package manager?
19:05 < Schmeckle> I feel really dumb. you mean the commandline I use when getting packages? apt-get
19:05 < rypervenche> It's based on Debian, yes.
19:05 < BluesKaj> yes it is
19:05 < kazdax> is there any other way besides the package manager to know what linux distribution you are using
19:05 < rypervenche> PureOS is a GNU/Linux live CDs based on Debian's Testing repository.
19:06 < Schmeckle> Its not live tho
19:06 < rypervenche> From their website or other websites.
19:06 < kazdax> i mean just the boot up process should tell you what linux you are using
19:07 < BluesKaj> Schmeckle, ok  which vpn provider are using ?
19:07 < Schmeckle> Does that matter? it's configured correctly to work with OpenVPN. I don't have their software
19:07 < kazdax> i need to learn SEO
19:07 < pnbeast> I understand the power of crowd-based docs, but that Debian wiki page author actually has smiley faces in the text?!
19:07 < dgurney> kazdax, "cat /etc/*-release" is one way to find out
19:08 < kazdax> cool
19:08 < pnbeast> timdiels, after a quick glance, I'd suggest reading other sources of information on LUKS, also.
19:08 < kazdax> let me test that out
19:08 < pnbeast> Er, encrypted LVMs...
19:08 < kazdax> yes works very well
19:08 < BluesKaj> kazdax, it's pureos  , I just wnted to know if it is debianbased so we know the kind of commands needed
19:09 < kazdax> ahh i see
19:10 < Schmeckle> @BluesKaj Does that matter? it's configured correctly to work with OpenVPN. I don't have their software installed.
19:13 < BluesKaj>  Schmeckle  you need to create a small bash script in startup with a command to connect to the vpn similar to one you would use in the terminal ..not knowing which desktop you're using I'm not sure how to proceed from here
19:13 < Schmeckle> I use GNOME I think
19:13 < dgurney> well, pureos has gnome by default afaik
19:13 < Schmeckle> Yay I thought right .p
19:14 < dgurney> so unless you changed it, it should be that
19:14 < BluesKaj> damn , not a gnome user , but maybe someone else could help with  adding the command/script to startup
19:15 < Schmeckle> That would be so cool :)
19:15 < kazdax> i wish there were real gnomes that fixed things
19:16 < kazdax> i remember that horror movie where gnomes were killing people ..little ceramic gnomes come to life and start hacking people to death :D
19:16 < BluesKaj> in kde/plasma one can add  it system settings>startup and shutdown
19:17 < BluesKaj> dunno what the gnome equivalent to that is
19:18 < BluesKaj> bbiab ..neighbour is at my door
19:18 < Schmeckle> Can you tell me the bash command and I figure out where to put it
19:19 < azarus> Hmmm. Linux is seeing my SSD as having 512 byte physical sectors? That can't be right...
19:19 < kazdax> schmeckle i dont want to sound like a dick but google could be a good choice to check for your awnsers
19:20 < Schmeckle> No problem its alright, sorry to bother, I read like the whole day on google to get stuff set up like tor SASL connection to freenode via tor and VPn, etc. I guess I was just tired. Maybe I should proceeed tomorrow
19:20 < kazdax> unless you exausted the google option but nothing beats live tutoring like this room
19:21 < kazdax> yea i know most of us on IRC are very intellgent ..for one we choose text based communication over cam and icons :D that truely shows old school will always be cheerished
19:21 < kazdax> C has still not died for example
19:21 < kazdax> so has unix like operating systems
19:22 < Pentode> c will _never_ die.
19:23 < prussian> not because of good reasons though.
19:23 < kazdax> what happens when programming just means thinking about a software and the AI programs it for you
19:23 < kazdax> all you have left is your imagination
19:23 < kazdax> human imagination is the last frontier ?
19:24 < pingfloyd> then you have been completely replaced and you AI masters won't value imagination
19:24 < junka> im very dum
19:24 < junka> im sorry
19:24 < prussian> I'm sorry
19:24 < lupine> capitalists have been trying to degrade software development ever since we came up with it
19:24 < prussian> rip
19:25 < lupine> AI may give them to tools to do so, but then, AI may also wipe them out
19:25 < kazdax> halt crash and burn of what ever that show was called
19:25 < junka> someone called me a rat a few minutes ago, here on irc
19:25 < junka> :(
19:25 < prussian> i'm sorry to hear that
19:25 < pingfloyd> did you rat on somebody?
19:25 < kazdax> showed that the guy or gal back in the day in the 80s who thought out about computer networks was more brilliant than the one that thought about AI
19:26 < junka> i hope not
19:26 < SuperSeriousCat> AI will program in C
19:26 < lupine> doubtful. UB is inimical to AI
19:26 < prussian> why....
19:26 < kazdax> UB >
19:26 < prussian> AI will have it's own record keeping and could just emit binary output directly
19:27 < kazdax> i thought LISP was the go to language for AI
19:27 < azarus> https://ptpb.pw/4EeP
19:27 < pingfloyd> UB?
19:27 < lupine> huehehehehe
19:27 < pingfloyd> UB trippin'
19:29 < dgurney> azarus, mine reports the same thing
19:29 < dgurney> so I guess it is normal
19:29 < azarus> dgurney: thanks! still strange tough
19:29 < junka> did ubuntu release a unity8 spin
19:30 < azarus> Used to modern systems reporting 4K sectors
19:30  * azarus shrugs
19:30 < Psi-Jack> junka: With any luck, unity is gone.
19:33 < apb1963> azarus, LISP is a horrid language.  I've always wondered why Fourth never seemed to take off.  Fourth is a cool language.
19:33 < azarus> apb1963: wrong channel?
19:33 < noodlepie> smalltalk was fun.
19:33 < kazdax> whats a channel to talk about AI development
19:33 < kazdax> and do any of you here practice it ?
19:34 < apb1963> azarus, Dunno, is it?  Then why did you start the conversation?
19:34 < kazdax> i always thought about it as a nice sci fi topic
19:34 < azarus> apb1963: i never said anything about LISP or Forth in years
19:34 < azarus> must have confused me with someone else?
19:35 < ychaouche> Hello ##linux
19:35 < apb1963> azarus, you're right.  My bad.  His name was above yours.
19:35 < azarus> Don't worry about it ;P
19:35 < noodlepie> hello ychaouche
19:35 < apb1963> kazdax apparently
19:35 < noodlepie> wassup?
19:35 < ychaouche> hello noodlepie
19:35 < apb1963> I guess i'm going blind
19:35 < kazdax> its the child in you apb
19:36 < apb1963> I'm not pregnant
19:36 < kazdax> how amusing :D
19:36 < apb1963> :)
19:36 < timdiels> rypervenche: Thanks, good to hear, no need for backup passwords then. If I couldn't remember 1, I sure wouldn't be able to remember 2 now would I ;)
19:40 < triceratux> junka: youll need community help for that https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install-unity-desktop-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Unity-8-On-Ubuntu-18.04
19:42 < mawk> edge-triggered or level-triggered ?
19:42 < BluesKaj> bummer I just composed long instruction for him about a command alsia
19:42 < BluesKaj> alias
19:42 < pingfloyd> they have bionic beavers now?
19:43 < pnbeast> Steve Austin and Jamie Summers would be so jealous.
19:43 < pingfloyd> does Jamie Summers have one?
19:43 < sauvin> That evokes SO many objectionably outrageous images...
19:43 < triceratux> leave it to canonical
19:43 < pingfloyd> does it make that "nanananana" noise?
19:43 < pnbeast> I can only hope.
19:44 < Psi-Jack> Oh man. :/  Took my Dachshund to the vet this morning, and extremely high liver enzymes.
19:44 < sauvin> I'm thinking more like "transformer whine and hydraulic moaning"
19:44 < pingfloyd> Enquiring minds want to know
19:44 < BluesKaj> pingfloyd, another one of shuttleworth's imaginary entities
19:45 < pingfloyd> I have a feeling that Shuttleworth doesn't know that much about beavers
19:47 < sauvin> ... and staticky electric crackling passions....
19:48 < sauvin> Yeah, wishing you hadn't said that.
19:49 < drakonan_> Hello
19:49 < drakonan_> Can yall see this message
19:49 < Psi-Jack> No.
19:49 < drakonan_> Dang it
19:49 < Psi-Jack> yall isn't here to be able to see it.
19:49 < drakonan_> I want sure if I authed or not since apparently my nick is in use
19:50 < drakonan_> And am using a new irc chat so idk what messages I'd see if any
19:50 < drakonan_> Wasnt
19:50 < BluesKaj> drakonan_, yup, we see that too
19:50 < drakonan_> Ok so most important question of the day what would I use linux for at home
19:50 < sauvin> o.O
19:50 < pingfloyd> drakonan_: what would you use a computer for?
19:51 < sauvin> Dunno about YOU, home boy, but I use mine for everything.
19:51 < dgurney> a lot of things
19:51 < pingfloyd> you might as well be asking that
19:51 < BluesKaj> drakonan_, what you would normally use a home compter for
19:51 < rypervenche> timdiels: Having two passwords would also be potentially less secure. Although the most insecure bit is probably that your master password can be grabbed while the drive is decrypted.
19:52 < drakonan_> Well see I don't live at home I have a pic with raspbian and am trying to figure out what all I'd use a computer for if i had all the resources i wanted I'd prob use pfsense...  but can't think of much else maybe squid idk if pfsense has it built in or not...
19:52 < drakonan_> Oh yay autocorrect
19:53 < drakonan_> I would kind of like to tunnel all of my communication through a third party like a VPN and do some traffic filtering before it gets to me
19:54 < pingfloyd> so what's stopping you?
19:54 < Psi-Jack> Hopefully common sense. :)
19:56 < drakonan_> Well I'm just brain storming what I might use a server for
19:56 < drakonan_> If it's worth it to convert my not often used desktop in to a router plus other stuff
19:56 < sauvin> I don't generally set up servers unless I first perceive a need.
19:56 < drakonan_> But it's an i7 so kind of a waste of all it's doing is routing :)
19:57 < drakonan_> Prob a personal web page...
19:57 < drakonan_> But also I want to do that in AWS just to learn it so maybe that's off the table
19:59 < drakonan_> And maybe a minecraft server if the bedrock proxy works as it suggests
19:59 < drakonan_> And really an internet filter that breaks in to ssl
20:00 < drakonan_> And a VPN...
20:05 < mawk> routing for many clients takes a lot of CPU drakonan_
20:07 < rascul> usually better off with a purpose built router than running it on x86
20:07 < rascul> optimized hardware vs bloated software
20:07 < uplime> f
20:07 < Drakonan> yeah that stuff would be done in hardware
20:07 < Drakonan> should be*
20:08 < Drakonan> yeah idk maybe i just buy a purpose built router... but the thing is i want it to run my own software that runs independent of the hardware
20:08 < rascul> for a home lan though, probably won't matter
20:08 < mawk> yeah
20:08 < mawk> and you can do fun routing things
20:08 < Drakonan> i dont like the idea of my code getting older and older running on that thing
20:08 < mawk> like transparent routing into Tor for .onion hosts
20:08 < mawk> at the router level
20:08 < Drakonan> when it probably wasn't secure to begin with
20:09 < rascul> you could get the hardware to run an open source router os
20:09 < rascul> like ddwrt or whatever
20:09 < Drakonan> well idk about .onion but i kind of like the idea of tor for certain things... i would like some anti tracking stuff happening
20:09 < Drakonan> i hate that when i search for tires one time the next 6 months on every website there are tire suggestions
20:09 < Drakonan> i'm still getting them
20:10 < Drakonan> facebook amazon google i mean damn such a waste of brain cells to look at them over and over again
20:10 < rascul> you could quit using the search engines directly, use something like searx instead
20:10 < mawk> you setup a dns resolver on the router, and deletage *.onion to the Tor dns server which will map .onion links to addresses in the range 172.16.0.0/12; also using iptables you forward this range of address into Tor
20:10 < mawk> and you've got transparent .onion access from every computer in the house
20:11 < rascul> you could have your searx go out over tor also so you're harder to track
20:11 < Drakonan> prob with that is the wife... and she uses android and you pretty much cant escape google on your phone unless you are purposely avoiding it actively
20:12 < rascul> yes you can, just don't use the google apps
20:12 < mawk> no problem with that Drakonan
20:12 < Drakonan> thats what im saying its so active... you can't get rid of the google voice crap
20:12 < Drakonan> so you have to NOT use that feature on your phone
20:12 < rascul> i don't think you realize what google voice is
20:13 < Drakonan> a techie could but i mean a non-techie would find that she's accidentally using google without realizing it
20:13 < flopwiki> it is crap though..
20:13 < rascul> it's not something you need with your phone, it's a phone service offered by google that you can forward calls and stuff
20:13 < rascul> https://voice.google.com
20:13 < greentea2018> How to sandbox under linux?
20:13 < pnbeast> Drakonan, there may be other/better ways, but currently I browse with no JS and no cookies, and that crappy search engine from MS still works.  I don't see whatever tracking they do, based on that usage, which makes me feel better.
20:13 < Drakonan> rascul right but i mean the google voice search whatever you want to call it
20:13 < pnbeast> I.e., I lie to myself a little better.
20:13 < rascul> oh, i dunno anything about that search thing, never used it
20:13 < rascul> have it disabled
20:13 < mawk> greentea2018: virtual machine, or variations around containers: docker, firejail
20:14 < mawk> firejail probably fits best the term "sandbox"
20:14 < Drakonan> I've used google voice though and it's great used to use it with groovie ip for an extra free at home phone
20:14 < catphish> greentea2018: a container system like lxc, or maybe a virtual machine
20:14 < Drakonan> google assistant and all of that jaz
20:14 < rascul> you can run searx to avoid directly using google or the other search engines https://github.com/asciimoo/searx
20:14 < Drakonan> rascul, basically i would need to "ridirect" under the hood
20:15 < Drakonan> redirect*
20:15 < greentea2018> mawk: heard about firejail but couldn't find channel on freenode
20:15 < greentea2018> at*
20:15 < rascul> Drakonan redirect what?
20:15 < mawk> then ask here greentea2018
20:15 < Drakonan> rascul, any misattempt for google to something else
20:16 < rascul> just set the default search engine?
20:16 < Drakonan> i wish i had faster internet at home too would set all devices up to vpn to home
20:16 < Drakonan> rascul, it doesn't work for google assistant, google... now? i dont even know what the other google voice browser crap is
20:17 < Drakonan> called
20:17 < Drakonan> whats the invisible non-browser that works when chrome is disabled?
20:17 < catphish> unfortunately a lot of connections have crappy upload speed, so vpn to home often sucks
20:17 < rascul> oh, ok. there might be an alternative to that assistant thing, though.
20:17 < rascul> invisible non browser?
20:17 < Drakonan> yeah the one that doesn't have an icon that you can use because its embedded in android and can't be taken out/disabled
20:18 < rascul> webview?
20:18 < greentea2018> how to use firejail for application that only let it do it things inside application's directory, not running external programs and not internet access?
20:18 < rascul> webview is the rendering engine with android that browsers and some apps use
20:18 < rascul> if that's not what you're thinking of, i don't know what this invisible non-browser is you're referring to
20:19 < Drakonan> yeah its the one use can look up searches without a browser then when you hit a result it asks what browser you want to use
20:19 < mawk> I'm not an expert greentea2018 but the manpage is full of examples
20:19 < mawk> you're asking for an easy thing
20:19 < azarus> also, firejail --help
20:19 < rascul> Drakonan i don't have a clue what you're talking about, never seen such a thing that i can recall
20:19 < Drakonan> the "ok google" thing
20:19 < rascul> oh
20:19 < Drakonan> that isn't chrome
20:19 < mawk> well restraining to a directory isn't really a linux thing, a real unprivileged container does it
20:19 < Drakonan> its an invisible big brother that owns your phone :)
20:19 < rascul> that would wrap webview i guess
20:19 < mawk> but firejail has much more security features
20:20 < rascul> do you mean like when you click a link in an app and it opens the page in some weird browser window?
20:20 < catphish> i'd like to have my daily rant about how needlessly overcomplicated iscsi is, i've almost got my head around it now though :)
20:20 < rascul> that's just webview being wrapped by the app, there should be an option somewhere to have it open up in your default browser instead, which just uses webview anyway
20:21 < Drakonan> yeah when you click the google search bar or say ok google
20:21 < Drakonan> and you get results without a "browser" being chosen
20:21 < rascul> i've never used and i don't have the google search bar or the ok google thing so i don't really know what you're referring to there
20:21 < Drakonan> and then whe you select a result it asks you afterward idk how that's not considered monopolistic like ie was back in the day but
20:22 < rascul> all the android browsers are the same anyway, they all just use webview
20:22 < rascul> chrome, firefox, whatever
20:22 < catphish> rascul: really?
20:22 < Drakonan> that's interesting does google get information from that?
20:23 < rascul> catphish yep
20:23 < rascul> Drakonan no, why would they?
20:23 < catphish> i knew some browsers were just a webviw wrapper, but i assumes the major browsers had their own engines
20:23 < qnord> i am using xterm on slackware and am having difficulty printing out japanese/kanji characters
20:23 < Drakonan> Why wouldn't they?  If it's a free service and you've consented in some way shape or form...
20:23 < rascul> catphish there may be one or two niche browsers here and there with about 4 users that have their own junk rendering engine though, but they're negligible
20:23 < rascul> Drakonan what are you talking about? i'm not using a google service when i use android
20:24 < catphish> rascul: why wouldn't firefox use its own engine?
20:24 < Drakonan> basically at gun point "your phone will self destruct unless you click please use and store all my data"
20:25 < rascul> catphish i don't remember the reasoning
20:25 < rascul> Drakonan you seem to be getting a bit out of sync with reality here
20:25 < catphish> rascul: i think firefox does use its own engine, at least wikipedia says it does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_for_Android
20:25 < Drakonan> no its just the frog in the frying pan reality
20:26 < catphish> rascul: some browsers may use the built in browser, but it seems firefox at least does not
20:26 < Drakonan> and with doubleclick
20:26 < Drakonan> and analytics its a giant big data company why wouldn't they be trying to use all the data they can
20:26 < Drakonan> seems like it would be a bad idea corporation wise
20:26 < qnord> xterm prints out japanese characters as random garbled stuff
20:26 < qnord> how do i fix that?
20:26 < Drakonan> i mean if i was that concerned i wouldn't use it at all but dont want to make it any easier than it already is
20:27 < rascul> catphish eh i'm probably thinking of firefox focus
20:28 < catphish> rascul: possibly, i'm sure some use the built in engine, though webview isn't very flexible, so i wouldn't think many browsers use that as-is
20:28 < catphish> though plenty probably do, or use the built in renderer in some other way
20:31 < rascul> Drakonan check out lineageos
20:31 < stephen77> Drakonan: running lineage myself, it's nice
20:31 < Drakonan> cant... because work
20:31 < stephen77> I installed microG though, and regret it
20:31 < Drakonan> they have mobileiron which checks for root capability
20:32 < Drakonan> not even having root but capability of having it
20:32 < Drakonan> and any app that could use root
20:32 < Drakonan> its crap
20:32 < stephen77> You can install linage w/o root
20:33 < Drakonan> i know but if you can enable root on it its blacklisted
20:33 < rascul> then don't enable root?
20:33 < Drakonan> its still blacklisted because you have capability
20:33 < Drakonan> it doesn't care if it has root but that you can get root
20:34 < Drakonan> i really wish i could though
20:34 < Drakonan> im so tired of getting these nag screens that my phone isn't using a verizon sim
20:34 < Drakonan> like i accidentally have a non-verion sim in there and a non-verizon service
20:34 < Drakonan> really?
20:35 < Drakonan> and i need the verizon voicemail app to run all the time just because?
20:35 < Drakonan> oh so it can randomly reset my google voicemail?
20:39 < Drakonan> or how about that i have to run pdanet because i can't enable simple hotspot in my phone even though my provider doesn't have that capability and i dont even go over 10gbs a month?
20:40 < Drakonan> which means i have to log a man in the middle laptop so i can use my work laptop on my phone because i can't install pdanet on it
20:40 < Drakonan> lug*
20:40 < Drakonan> this crap where they want to use your stuff and dictate what you can do on it pisses me off
20:41 < Drakonan> dude i spent 400 bucks on this phone it's mine
20:43 < Psi-Jack> Man. I look in ##linux and all I see is Drakonan.
20:43 < Drakonan> heh no one is talking :'(
20:43 < Psi-Jack> It's a sign.
20:44 < diogenese> all problems solved
20:44 < Drakonan> heh #linux chat has done its job then :)
20:44 < Psi-Jack> More likely a sign one is talking too much or so far off-topic that, well, yeah. :p
20:45 < Psi-Jack> Hint hint. :)
20:46 < Abbott> I need to pad a file with zeros until it is 256MB in length. Is there a clever way to do that with a linux utility or should I use a programatic approach with python or something
20:46 < Psi-Jack> dd
20:46 < Psi-Jack> Use of /dev/zero
20:47 < timdiels> rypervenche: being able to grab the master key while the drive is decrypted is unavoidable I think though. But it does its job well, keeping people out who managed to get their hands on the data rather than your booted system with unlocked volumes
20:47 < Psi-Jack> Abbott: But... Why?
20:49 < Psi-Jack> ok91: Downgrading. Interesting.
20:55 < hatp> are control groups created with cgcreate persistent after reboots?
20:55 < hatp> I have a seperate firefox for another control group with different settings and I don't want to have to redo them every time i reboot
20:58 < Abbott> Psi-Jack: generating files for a PS3
20:59 < Psi-Jack> Abbott: Likely create a zero file of 256MB, using dd, then using dd to overlay the original file into the newly created file.
21:01 < MetaNova> Psi-Jack: wouldn't fallocate be more effective than dd for generating a zero-filled file?
21:01 < Psi-Jack> If using extX, maybe.
21:01 < MetaNova> does fallocate not function on filesystems outside of extX?
21:02 < Psi-Jack> No it does not.
21:02 < MetaNova> huh. I didn't recall that
21:02 < MetaNova> good to know, thanks Psi-Jack
21:02 < Psi-Jack> :)
21:02 < prussian> it works on btrfs
21:03 < prussian> any fs that implements it, it will work on
21:03 < prussian> and if it doesn't, it will still do a slower, but functional alternative way
21:05 < uplime> dd also has the advantage of being POSIX
21:07 < tempate> Hello. I'm trying to connect to a locally hosted website from the Internet and not being able to. I understand all I need to do is to map one of my router's port, e.g. 80, to point to my web's direction, i.e. 192.168.1.x:8080. After setting that up on my router (Livebox) I look up my ip with my phone's data and get nothing. Any ideas what may be going wrong?
21:07 < Psi-Jack> tempate: "locally hosted over the internet" makes no sense.
21:08 < Psi-Jack> tempate: Is this on your home network, where the webserver is?
21:08 < tempate> I mean I'm hosting a website on my computer which I would like to be able to access from outside my local network, Psi-Jack
21:08 < tempate> Psi-Jack: yes
21:08 < Psi-Jack> That makes more sense.
21:08 < Psi-Jack> tempate: Your ISP likely blocks port 80 inbound
21:09 < tempate> mhm, I hadn't thought about that
21:09 < Psi-Jack> Who's your ISP?
21:09 < tempate> I've also tried with port 81 though
21:09 < tempate> Psi-Jack: Orange
21:10 < Psi-Jack> Dunno them. For all we know they block all ports < 1024
21:11 < tempate> Just tried with port 2000 and it doesn't seem to be working either
21:12 < Psi-Jack> Then either they're blocking a lot.. or your router setup is wrong.
21:12 < Psi-Jack> Or firewall.
21:13 < Psi-Jack> I assume you are using your Internet IP from your cell on cellular data, not the 192.168.1.x IP address?
21:14 < tempate> That's correct
21:14 < Psi-Jack> Check firewall rules on the host where the webserver is.
21:14 < tempate> I just disabled the firewall and changed the port to 8000, and still nothing
21:15 < tempate> I'm able to connect locally to that host, so I'm guessing the firewall isn't up on the host
21:15 < Psi-Jack> Check that the webserver is listening to 0.0.0.0:80, or 192.168.1.x:80 and not 127.0.0.x
21:15 < Psi-Jack> Stop guessing, and know. :)
21:15 < tempate> :D
21:17 < Sitri> `ss -lntp | cat` or `netstat -lntp`
21:18 < Psi-Jack> ss -ltn '( dport = :80 or sport = :80 )'
21:18 < Psi-Jack> Or :8080 in your case
21:18 < phinxy> Why would 4.15
21:19 < Psi-Jack> phinxy: Because.
21:19 < triceratux> phinxy: why wouldnt it ?
21:19 < phinxy> Why would 4.15 "linux-headers-4.15" be installed but not the "linux-image-4.15"?
21:19 < azarus> Psi-Jack: fallocate works on btrfs, xfs, ext4 and ocfs2
21:20 < azarus> Psi-Jack: https://linux.die.net/man/1/fallocate
21:20 < triceratux> phinxy: depends. what distro ?
21:20 < phinxy> Debian BPO
21:20 < sauvin> What's "BPO"?
21:21 < phinxy> I mean, all packages are updated to debian backports
21:21 < dgurney> backports? maybe, dunno
21:21 < sauvin> Ah.
21:21 < tempate> Psi-Jack: Firewall is down and the webserver is listening to 192.168.1.x:80
21:22 < mitescugd> Does anyone know about properties of X windows? I'm trying to delete a property. I'm doing it with xprops but it complains that no such property exists, despite `xdo id -n polybar | xargs -I % xprop -id %` showing me the specific option.
21:22 < Psi-Jack> tempate: Port 80? So y ou setup a port forward on the router from port 80 to 8080 when the webserver's actually on 80?
21:22 < Psi-Jack> I see a problem. :)
21:22 < tempate> nope, port 8080, my bad
21:22 < Psi-Jack> ...
21:23 < zapotah> phinxy: the only way i see that happening so that youve installed a specific image and not the metapackage and then the metapackage for the headers
21:23 < Psi-Jack> Accuracy matters here..
21:23 < tempate> the webserver is listening on 0.0.0.0:8080, and the router is theoretically redirecting traffic from port 8000 to 192.168.1.x:8080
21:23 < Psi-Jack> Pastebin the results of the ss I provided to pastebin (not pastebin.com, see /topic for paste site)
21:25 < tempate> with port 8080, right?
21:25 < Psi-Jack> With whichever is correct.
21:26 < tempate> https://paste.linux.community/view/72777fb9
21:27 < phinxy> funny thing; after updating 4.14 to 4.15 the terminal font had to be reduced by 1 size to look good
21:27 < Psi-Jack> OKay, yeah, looks good.
21:27 < Psi-Jack> And just got the call to pick up my dog from the vet.
21:27 < tempate> mhm
21:28 < tempate> Any suggestions on how I may proceed?
21:28 < Exaeta> Anyone know how to use mdadm to mount an existing RAID array? I have disks attached but not configured to be mounted and there is a preexisting raid array
21:28 < tempate> Everything I read about the topic makes it look easy, but here I am
21:31 < Raed> tempate: Your port forwards match the actual server ports right?
21:31 < tempate> Yes
21:31 < Exaeta> oh nvm
21:32 < Raed> tempate: Have you tried http://canyouseeme.org from the host network?
21:35 < tempate> Raed: yes, it says it cannot see me
21:36 < Raed> What does it say next to reason?
21:37 < tempate> Connection timeout
21:38 < Raed> Most likely being blocked by the isp then. Which ISP are you using for the server?
21:39 < tempate> Orange
21:39 < tempate> For some reason the Port Mapping is not appearing under NAT Port Mapping, that's weird
21:41 < mawk> orange with a pro plan ?
21:41 < Raed> tempate: Do you need to activate the port forward, and you didnt? Some routers you have to actually turn it on after you add it, just becuase it is there doesnt mean its active.
21:41 < tempate> mawk: nope
21:41 < Raed> tempate: Generally, however, when canyouseeme.org says timeout, the provider is blocking access it it, if it had said refused that means that the router is responding to it.
21:42 < mawk> the router can DROP, Raed
21:42 < zapotah> tempate: do you even have a public address?
21:42 < mawk> which will result in a timeout
21:42 < mawk> orange doesn't do CGN afaik
21:42 < mawk> so yes
21:42 < tempate> I have a public ip, zapotah
21:42 < mawk> either static ip, or leases that last a week or so
21:43 < hatp> mawk: Hey, I finally got the VPN bypass working with the control groups. One question though. Will the new control group persist after a reboot? I want my firefox settings for this control groups to persist after I reboot
21:43 < mawk> nothing will persist hatp
21:43 < mawk> but you have several ways to make it persist
21:44 < mawk> for the control groups you can see in /etc/cgroups or something like that, to automatically classify firefox in the right cgroup
21:44 < tempate> so, mawk, you are saying my ISP is not blocking me?
21:44 < mawk> for iptables, see iptables-restore or something is that vein
21:44 < mawk> most likely yeah tempate
21:44 < Raed> mawk: I did say generally
21:45 < mawk> ah
21:45 < hatp> well my normal firefox ahs different settings than my new control group firefox. And these settings will persist even after I close them and reopen them
21:45 < hatp> i.e. i can keep both different firefox settings at the same time
21:45 < zapotah> tempate: so your address does not start with 100.64-127?
21:45 < zapotah> tempate: or any rfc1918 address
21:46 < zapotah> tempate: pastebin your iptables -S output
21:46 < zapotah> nat and filter table
21:46 < mawk> that's strange hatp
21:46 < mawk> maybe the other firefox has a daemon in background which spawns processes in the right cgroup already
21:47 < tempate> https://paste.linux.community/view/3e4862a7
21:47 < mawk> after a reboot all will be cleared anyway
21:47 < tempate> my address starts with 90.127-255
21:48 < zapotah> tempate: thats the filter table, then the nat
21:48 < tempate> what's the command?
21:49 < pretodor> hi, has anybody here used xdotool?
21:49 < zapotah> -t nat added there
21:49 < zapotah> tempate: also, youre sticking the rules in the input chain there which is invalid
21:50 < zapotah> tempate: assuming this is output from your router?
21:50 < tempate> https://paste.linux.community/view/d2433cae
21:50 < zapotah> tempate: if this is the end host, your rules dont matter anyway since your policy is accept anyway
21:51 < zapotah> and you dont nat on end hosts regardless
21:51 < Truk> hello, can anyone help me understand this script please : https://pastebin.com/8Rg2e56d
21:51 < tempate> This is the output from where I'm hosting the webserver
21:51 < zapotah> tempate: i dont care about that
21:51 < zapotah> i want the config from your router
21:52 < Raed> zapotah: He has a consumer grade isp provided router, he wont be able to get that most likely.
21:52 < tempate> ^
21:52 < zapotah> figure it out
21:52 < zapotah> screenshots
21:52 < zapotah> whatever
21:52 < Raed> tempate: Can you post screenshots of the port forwarding page from the router?
21:52 < tempate> sure, one moment
21:53 < tempate> Thanks for all the help, btw
21:54 < zapotah> tempate: and do you see the public address actually on an interface in the router config?
21:54 < zapotah> tempate: just you going to some "whatismyipaddress" doesnt tell anything
21:55 < tempate> no, I don't see it
21:55 < tempate> I was going to some "whatismyipaddress"
21:55 < zapotah> -.-
21:56 < zapotah> what does your "wan" or whatever show in the router config?
21:57 < mawk> his ISP isn't known to do CGN
21:57 < tempate> WAN IP:  192.0.0.2
21:57 < zapotah> mawk: that doesnt mean anything
21:57 < tempate> what is CGN?
21:57 < zapotah> tada
21:57 < zapotah> ds-lite
21:57  * zapotah goes enjoy his movie
21:57 < stevendale> Morning
21:58 < tempate> I don't know what just happened
21:58 < Raed> tempate: Carrier grade NAT
21:58 < tempate> mhm
21:58 < mawk> it means he has a public ip
21:58 < Raed> tempate: Do you have a physical internet line or is it wireless from the carrier?
21:58 < zapotah> mawk: do you even know how ds-lite works?
21:59 < zapotah> and what is the primary way of deploying it?
21:59 < tempate> I'm currently connected through ethernet, Raed, not sure if that's what you are asking
21:59 < zapotah> tempate: your provider is doing ds-lite to you
21:59 < tempate> zapotah: what is ds-lite and what's going on?
21:59 < Raed> tempate: How does the internet get to your house? Is it a cable connection or is it wireless internet?
21:59 < zapotah> tempate: you get tunneled ipv6 and the isp does CGN for v4
21:59 < tempate> cable connection
21:59 < Raed> tempate: Wireless as in 4G
22:00 < tempate> Cable then
22:00 < Raed> tempate: Can you paste a tracepath to 1.1.1.1?
22:00 < Raed> tempate: "tracepath 1.1.1.1"
22:00 < tempate> zapotah: I don't mean to be a bad student but that really means nothing
22:00 < Dagmar> wtf is tracepath
22:00 < mawk> his ISP doesn't do ds-lite either
22:01 < Raed> Dagmar: traceroute / tracepath
22:01 < zapotah> mawk: that address allocation says otherwise
22:01 < stevendale> OwO
22:01 < tds> if the ip on the "wan interface" (which is probably actually a 4in6 tunnel) is 192.0.0.2, that sounds like ds-lite
22:02 < zapotah> for those who dont do internet for a living: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6333#section-5.7
22:02 < Raed> zapotah: That doesn't mean they HAVE to do it that way..
22:02 < tempate> Does being ds-lite mean I can't have a webserver?
22:03 < zapotah> Raed: obviously, but i dont see why _anyone_ would do it otherwise
22:03 < Dagmar> Not having a publicly-routable IP address means you can't usefully run a webserver
22:03 < tempate> I mean, one which can handle connections from the Internet
22:03 < tds> tempate: unless you can get your ISP to route traffic to a public v4 address down the tunnel, you can't run a v4 webserver
22:03 < Raed> zapotah: Same reson people use 1.1.1.1 for internal routing even though it isnt private address space.
22:03 < zapotah> Raed: and ive seen quite a bit of ISP networks
22:03 < Raed> zapotah: Because people are incompetent.
22:03 < tempate> dammit
22:03 < nukem> Psi-Jack: did you say earlier that you can use TW packages on Leap somehow?
22:04 < Raed> tempate: Did you paste the traceroute?
22:04 < tds> tempate: if you don't mind terminating ssl on someone else's server, you could run a v6 web server and stick cloudflare in front of it
22:04 < zapotah> Raed: obviously, however the fact that his router has the actual client-side ds-lite address assigned to it is too much of a coincidence to have been "just thrown in there randomly"
22:05 < tempate> Raed: https://paste.linux.community/view/1033f77b
22:05 < zapotah> it would be something else entirely
22:05 < [R]> tds: watch where you stick that ccloud
22:05 < tds> [R]: ccloud?
22:05 < Raed> tempate: Can you even ping out? You didnt even get a single reply lol
22:06 < tempate> yeah, I don't know what happened there
22:06 < [R]> tds: i have a studder... so what
22:06 < tempate> Raed: ping is working fine, though
22:06 < Raed> tempate: try traceroute to 8.8.8.8
22:07 < tempate> same result
22:07 < zapotah> tempate: set -I
22:08 < zapotah> or -T -p 80
22:09 < tempate> same
22:09 < zapotah> then your isp is a bloody moron and blocks vital icmp packets
22:09 < Raed> tempate: I dont think you are going to be able to host a server, It looks like your isp is doing some really weird routing.
22:10 < tempate> alright
22:10 < Raed> zapotah: Thts what it sounds like to me and if they block that I imagine they arent allowing any inbound traffic
22:10 < zapotah> Raed: the real issue is ds-lite
22:10 < zapotah> not the blocking of icmp
22:10 < tempate> should I just go out to some hosting site or simply change ISP?
22:10 < Raed> tempate: Thats your decision to make.
22:10 < zapotah> tempate: whatever floats your boat
22:10 < tempate> any renting place which is not too expensive
22:10 < Raed> zapotah: Yeah, but you dont know 100% that they are using ds-lite
22:10 < tds> for ds-lite, it may be worth asking the provider if there's a way for you get a public v4 address
22:11 < Raed> tempate: digitalocean is cheap
22:11 < tempate> alright
22:11 < zapotah> Raed: id be willing to bet a few beers on that
22:11 < Raed> tempate: You could also maybe call orange and ask, but they will probably tell you that they are blocking traffic
22:11 < tempate> Once again, thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it
22:12 < tempate> I'll try to call them tomorrow morning but I really don't see it happening
22:12 < Raed> tds: I'd bet that they will tell him he either needs to upgrade to a business plan, or theyll just tell him they wont do it at all.
22:12 < [R]> most residential isps expliclity say no servers to begin with...
22:12 < Raed> tempate: I don't think they are going to be able to open it up for you, you probably need to host it off site or just pick a better isp, but do your research before you switch.
22:13 < zapotah> welcome to murica where such ridiculous practices are fine :3
22:13  * zapotah is happy with his five static publics and native routed v6
22:13 < zapotah> oh and 1G symmetric
22:13 < zapotah> 50€/mo
22:13 < zapotah> no data caps
22:13 < [R]> yeah, but who wants to deal with euros...
22:13  * [R] giggles
22:14 < zapotah> i always just giggle at the murican isps
22:14 < zapotah> its so completely ass backwards there
22:14 < [R]> we love being raped in the butt by them
22:14 < [R]> thats why it is the way it is
22:14 < Raed> zapotah: I had symmetric 1G, with 5 public ip's for $75/month
22:14 < Raed> zapotah: Until I moved states.
22:14 < tds> I think at least one of the large UK ISPs are considering deploying ds-lite as well :/
22:14 < [R]> why does anyone need 5 ipv4 ips...
22:14 < [R]> thats just excessive
22:15 < Raed> [R]: I had servers, and they offered it for $5/month so i took it
22:15 < zapotah> [R]: i dont use more than one, but i can get five if i want
22:15  * CompanionCube is with sky
22:15 < CompanionCube> native ipv6 woo
22:15 < [R]> i have native ipv6  too
22:15 < [R]> thats not that big a deal anymore
22:16 < Raed> [R]: It wasnt a big deal to begine with tbh
22:16 < Dagmar> Not excessive.  If they have housemates, then there's enough to route everyone their own
22:16 < [R]> although i used to be able to request a /56... and now i'm stuck with a lowley /60
22:16 < CompanionCube> ...ew
22:16 < [R]> why does evryone need their own ip?
22:16 < zapotah> [R]: because thats how the internet was meant to be
22:16 < tds> [R]: being able to point the blame for abuse complaints in a situation like that is useful
22:17 < tds> and yeah, if you can everything with public addresses and no nat mangling life is so much nicer :)
22:17 < Dagmar> because it's not _peer to peer_ unless communication can be initiated in both directions
22:17 < pnbeast> I don't have any peers, just worshippers.
22:17 < zapotah> the big players want you to believe that you dont need a public address
22:17 < zapotah> because less innovation etc
22:18 < zapotah> and they want the addresses
22:18 < zapotah> to make money
22:18 < Dagmar> Tolerating things going back to exclusively server-client will have us back to the days of walled gardens like CompuServe and Delphi everywhere
22:18 < [R]> joe moron doesn't need a public address...
22:18 < Dagmar> [R]: But just the same, Joe Moron should *have* a publicly routable address
22:18 < Dagmar> ...because Joe Moron *might* someday get a clue and be able to become a useful producer of information.
22:19 < [R]> lol
22:19 < pnbeast> I'm good with joe moron being on the intarwebs.  You don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than joe moron.
22:19 < zapotah> [R]: who gets to decide who is joe moron?
22:19 < Dagmar> ...and remember that as far as most corporations are concerned, until you're paying them _LOTS_ of money, _YOU_ are Joe Moron
22:19 < [R]> zapotah: 'joe moron' just means the average guy
22:20 < Dagmar> So, as far as your ISP is concerned, you shouldn't have a publicly-routable IP
22:20 < sauvin> I'm OK with Joe Moron being on the webs, too. He often posts some really yummy brunettes.
22:20 < Dagmar> This network was designed to be peer to peer, not just rich people to users
22:20 < Raed> The only reason ISP's could possibly have to not give you your own address is because they dont want to pay for the address space.
22:21 < Dagmar> Raed: Did you just get on the internet yesterday?
22:21 < ococooccoo> sauvin confirmed as a cannibal
22:21 < stevendale> o/
22:21 < Dagmar> ISPs will elect to not give people a routable address for the simple reason that they can ask you for more money in exchange for one
22:21 < Raed> Dagmar: No, why else would they not want to give you one?
22:21 < Dagmar> Usually _much_ more money
22:21 < stevendale> Are you okay with me being on the net sauvin
22:21 < sauvin> That would be "crotch cannibal", you microcephalic RUNT!
22:21 < Raed> Dagmar: Right, so they dont want to pay for the address space without gaining something back..
22:22 < Raed> Dagmar: I have never had an ISP not give me my own IP address
22:22 < sauvin> That's an interesting question, though: does the average Joe Sixpack really need his own IP?
22:22 < Dagmar> We used to see ISPs rather often that handed out IANA-reserved private network addresses to customers and just did DNAT at the border
22:22 < Raed> Dagmar: In the US?
22:22 < Dagmar> Typically the bill would be at _least_ doubled if the user wanted a public IP
22:22 < Dagmar> In the US.
22:22 < tds> hopefully that kind of messy cgnat will at least go away with things like ds-lite
22:23 < Raed> Dagmar: Where?
22:23 < Dagmar> If you want another example that's still ongoing, it would be no problem at all for Comcast to assign users an IP address that would stay the same as long as they're at that address
22:23 < Dagmar> Ask them how much for a static IP address.
22:23 < Raed> Dagmar: I dont need a static address
22:24 < Dagmar> You can't even get it through "residential" service.  You have to become a business customer, and _then_ it's _still_ an additional charge
22:24 < Raed> Dagmar: The ISP I had before gave me 5 static ips for $5, but they were shithead like comcast are.
22:24 < Raed> werent*
22:25 < sauvin> Thing of it is, I had the exact same IP under Comcast for years before I changed cable modems and had to get it reset.
22:25 < DrunkRhino> What would be the simplest way of mounting all samba shares on a server to something like /mnt/server/share(1,2,etc), preferably on boot?
22:25 < Dagmar> Raed: If you wanted to publish things to the internet, even on the smallest of scales, you'd ideally be using a static IP address.  Dyndns/afaid is cool and all, but they're still strictly a workaround
22:25 < Raed> And when I called and said my internet doesnt work, they told me it was on their end and they were waiting on a part to correct it, instead of instalntly trying to put the blame on my equipment or not knowing what im doing
22:25 < tds> DrunkRhino: cifs mounts in fstab
22:25 < jim> I've never had an invisible big brother before!
22:26 < Dagmar> Pushing documentst to your ISPs webserver to serve from there fails to be truly decentralised
22:26 < sauvin> Yeah, for publishing, I use hosting. Comcast's UPloads are... um... almost nonexistent.
22:26 < Raed> Dagmar: Id agree that static address is nicer, but theres nothing stopping me from buying an dns name and just updateing the ip through an api.
22:26 < Raed> updating*
22:26 < Dagmar> Raed: Other than that its' entirely a kludge to do that
22:26 < Raed> Dagmar: It works just fine for me.
22:26 < Dagmar> Oh and DNS TTLs and propagation guarantee less than 100% service availability
22:26 < bomb> heh. good ol' dyndns
22:26 < jim> (my scroll was back, there was something relevent before...)
22:26 < DrunkRhino> tds, that's what I figured. Just know that I'd have to list each one individually that way, so thought I'd check if maybe writing a quick script or something to loop through all the shares would be the better choice.
22:27 < Raed> Dagmar: I just update it to cloudflare DNS, and set the TTL to half an hour, then I hit the API every half hour and it updates.
22:27 < Raed> Dagmar: It works just fine, its a simple systemd timer.
22:28 < Raed> Dagmar: I've never not been able to connect.
22:28 < Dagmar> ...and when your ISP changes your address without warning, you are down for a half hour to people
22:28 < Raed> Dagmar: I'm not a hosting provider so I can live for 30 mins.
22:28 < Dagmar> ...because that DNS entry will still be cached and valid and pointing to the wrong IP address for everyone who visited your site in the last half hour.
22:28 < Dagmar> Raed: Yeah well I've _built_ hosting providers
22:29 < Raed> Dagmar: Yay?
22:29 < DrunkRhino> Dagmar, theres no sense in insisting on enterprise-grade availability where it's not necessarily appropriate for the use case
22:30 < Raed> ^^ Thats the point im making..
22:30 < Dagmar> Meaning I know a hell of a lot more about this than you
22:31 < Dagmar> DrunkRhino: This isn't about availability.  It's only the worthless gish gallop that even makes it seem about "enterprise-grade" anything
22:31 < Raed> Dagmar: Congrats? you still dont get it do you? Im not running a datacenter, I dont need 100% availability..
22:31 < Dagmar> This is about the _topology_ of the network
22:31 < Dagmar> If clients can't both initialize and recieve connections, this degrades the internet
22:31 < Raed> Oh boy
22:31 < DrunkRhino> Well, nothings perfect now is it
22:32 < lupine> capitalism doesn't require the masses to be able to provide services
22:32 < lupine> as long as they can consume, all is well
22:32 < Raed> lupine: Nope, everyone needs at least 10GE fiber into their house.
22:33 < Raed> lupine: Otherwise the internet cant function.
22:33 < Dagmar> With IPv6 having mechanisms to make this basically impossible, and us still actually having enough address space to go around for the machines that would be worthy of incoming connections (toasters are not) the usual reason devices don't have a publicly-routable IP is the ISP thinks they can carve that functionality away and resell it as a premium service
22:33 < Dagmar> That's not how the internet was developed, and it's not how it got as large as it was
22:33 < Raed> Dagmar: There isn't enugh ipv4 space for every device to have a public address, NAT works just fine for regular consumers.
22:34 < Dagmar> This is why the people who _built it_ actually bitch a fit about ISPs doing that
22:34 < Dagmar> Raed: Oddly I've yet to see any large ISPs or even small ISPs really hurting for address space yet
22:34 < AvatarA> did they remove the minimize button in the last version of chromium?
22:35 < Raed> Dagmar: If we take every IoT device and give it a public routeable ipv4 address, we certainly dont have anough.
22:35 < Raed> enough*
22:35 < triceratux> https://phys.org/news/2018-04-internet-corporations-people.html
22:35 < Raed> Dagmar: There is absolutely no reason to give every normal internet consumer an address for every device they own.
22:36 < sauvin> Good, because I don't necessarily want Walmart tracking what's in my fridge.
22:37 < Raed> Lol
22:37 < [R]> sauvin: but then they'll let you know when you need to buy more food
22:38 < sauvin> I'm pretty tech-hip for an old fart, but not so goddamn hip that I need some fancy-ass computer telling me when it's time to buy more FOOD!
22:39 < [R]> just imagine how much simpler your life would be...
22:39 < sauvin> I promise: it wouldn't be.
22:40 < [R]> just imagine, having a robot automatically deliver food before you know you need it?
22:40 < ococooccoo> all this talk of cannibalism and sauvin's fridge is making me uncomfortable, i think we need mandatory walmart fridge bots, for our safety
22:41 < [R]> speaking of robots... the other day i was at a restaurant, and they had a motion activated garbage can... and i was like "oh, its a robot garbage can"
22:41 < [R]> i think peopel dont really say "robot" in taht ccontext anymore?
22:41 < tds> Raed: I'd say there are certainly reasons for it, but I'd agree that in the current situation of v4 it's just not realistically possible
22:42 < Raed> tds: Im not saying it wouldn't be convienent, but it isnt absolutely critical for the continued operation of the internet.
22:43 < tds> either way, everyone should be pushing for more v6 adoption, rather that just deploying nat left right and center
22:44 < Raed> tds: v6 is definitely the better solution.
22:47 < MarkusDB1> glusterfs without ECC, a bad idea?
22:47 < ococooccoo> ipv6 is too obnoxious though, if the problem is just about needing more addresses
22:48 < ococooccoo> even if it's for our own protection
22:49 < Dagmar> MarkusDB1: Depends on what your business requirements are.
22:50 < Dagmar> The practical end of it is that even without ECC RAM most machines in a host role do just fine
22:50 < Dagmar> Errors in memory are bloody rare
22:50 < sauvin> My experience agrees.
22:51 < Dagmar> ECC is a thing you go for when you're at the level of 2N+1 cooling and dual redundant power feeds
22:51 < sauvin> In fact, it seems I can bake a CPU a lot faster than I can memory.
22:51 < Dagmar> i.e., large data center level
22:52 < MarkusDB1> Dagmar: I know ecc is a good idea for zfs, but I wonder if gluster is the same
22:52 < MarkusDB1> goal using a cluster of cheap machines to keep data redundant across nodes in a home lab.
22:53 < Dagmar> It's always "a good idea" but so is 2N+1 cooling, off-site backups, and dual-redundant power connections
22:53 < lupine> if you have data scrubbing built into your filesystem, why would ECC be a better idea than if you don't?
22:53 < Dagmar> For a home lab, requiring ECC RAM would be a bit of overkill
22:54 < MarkusDB1> Dagmar: redundant power connections doesn't really matter that much in case of lots of gluster nodes, just have half of the nodes on their own fuse and their own ups
22:55 < MarkusDB1> lupine: at least for zfs small errors can get big due to the scrubbing
22:55 < [R]> you might even say YUGE
22:55 < lupine> hmm, sounds like they're doing it wrong
22:56 < MarkusDB1> so question in short: will gluster without ecc mess up the way that zfs without ecc can?
22:56 < Dagmar> Cosmic rays could potentially affect what's in the RAM and corrupt your filesystem.  It doesn't mean you're going to put lead shielding around your house
22:56 < Dagmar> Lots of people are using gfs with regular non-ECC RAM
22:56 < stevendale> I probably would if my parents passed on Dagmar
22:57 < hetii> hi
22:57 < hetii> Q: When I create veth pair and assign one end to new network namespace and then delete this network namespace second veth endpoint still exist in global namespace, How I can combine them to be all deleted when my namespace is removed ?
22:57 < stevendale> And aluminium foil
22:57 < mawk> yeti
22:57 < Dagmar> heheh
22:57 < mawk> the veth endpoint from the deleted namespace goes back in the original namespace after it's deleted hetii
22:57 < Dagmar> Besides which, it's apparently a home lab.  Inviting the rare failure case is generally considered educational.
22:57 < MarkusDB1> Actually I watched a NASA documentary, where they used ordinary household tinfoil, as a last minute fix before launch
22:57 < stevendale> Rip the TV off the wall, put a fireplace in
22:58 < stevendale> Add a chimney
22:58 < Dagmar> I learned a ton about dealing with crashed MySQL tables from a flaky nvidia driver spontaneously rebooting one of my boxes
22:58 < hetii> mawk, not true
22:58 < mawk> ah, yes sorry
22:58 < mawk> indeed
22:58 < MarkusDB1> the voyager probe has parts isolated with ordinary tinfoil from the store =)
22:58 < mawk> it only happens with physical interfaces
22:58 < pnbeast> MarkusDB1, was it real tinfoil, or aluminum foil?
22:58 < MarkusDB1> not sure
22:59  * pnbeast inspects his hat doubtfully.
22:59 < mawk> where did you see that the second endpoint still exists in the global namespace hetii ?
22:59 < jim> vger?!
23:00 < hetii> mawk, I create veth pair and one endpoint is on host side and second in namespace, then when I delete my namespace this endpoint on host side still exist
23:00 < MarkusDB1> pnbeast: they said it in the voyager documentary, they needed to launch on time, due to the position of the planets, and was under huge pressure, so either use store bought foil or no foil for a few last minute fixes.
23:00 < mawk> I just tried and it didn't happen hetii
23:00 < mawk> both endpoints got deleted
23:01  * pnbeast wonders why NASA didn't know the planets were lining up.
23:02 < hetii> well maybe because In my case I put two endpoints from different places, so one as I said from veth pair terminated on host side and second is a veth endpoint from docker
23:02 < MarkusDB1> pnbeast: they did, they had a set date
23:02 < hetii> but need to check that...
23:02 < pnbeast> MarkusDB1, it was a joke.
23:02 < sauvin> If it was grocery store foil, it probably was aluminum. I've not seen actual TIN foil in many, many years.
23:02 < sauvin> And this is a potential problem, because aluminum is completely transparent to many kinds of radiation.
23:02 < mawk> hetii: the namespace needs to die completely in order for the veth endpoints to disappear
23:03 < mawk> if docker is still holding the namespace one way or another, it won't die
23:03 < AvatarA> http://jrs-s.net/2015/02/03/will-zfs-and-non-ecc-ram-kill-your-data/
23:03 < hetii> but its namespace that don`t belong to docker
23:03 < pnbeast> Well, sauvin, are you gonna go up there and fix it?
23:03 < hetii> its additional one
23:03 < mawk> for instance if you registered the namespace with ip netns, the namespace is kept alive
23:03 < mawk> any process can "take" a namespace and keep it alive for further binding, so that includes docker
23:03 < sauvin> I've got enough gas, I can jet along pretty good, but not THAT well!
23:06 < hetii> mawk,  this is something else, cause i`m sure that docker don`t take my namespace because when I stop container my custom namespace is still alive
23:06 < hetii> so need to remove it manually
23:06 < hetii> what is also not desired thing
23:06 < mawk> the fact the namespace is still up when you stop the container means something is still alive in that namespace
23:07 < mawk> as long as there is still one process up, the namespace and the interfaces in it won't be deallocated
23:07 < hetii> hmm
23:07 < hetii> how I can check what it keeps running ?
23:08 < mawk> there's no tool for that I fear
23:08 < hetii> btw is it possible from docker that he will manage his own network namespace and my additional one ?
23:08 < mawk> but you can check the namespace number in /proc/$PID/ns/net, then do a find query to look for processes
23:08 < mawk> yeah but why ?
23:09 < mawk> if the other namespace is a secret namespace docker doesn't use for your containers, it's useless
23:09 < mawk> no use for it
23:10 < hetii> mawk, general in my setup I have two namespace, one its original one make and manage by docker deamon and second one that I create and use it inbeetwen. So my namespace is not manage or visible from docker side
23:11 < hetii> but I like to have such functionality that when container is down he will clear my custom namespace also
23:11 < hetii> as he did with his own
23:11 < mawk> where do you use the additionnal namespace then ?
23:11 < mawk> if the namespace in the container is the namespace created by docker
23:14 < hetii> my setup: docker0 --> myHostVeth_A--> [ myHostVeth_B  myCustomNamespace  OriginalVethFromDockerB ] --> OriginalVethFromDockerA (eth0 in container)
23:14 < hetii> mawk, ^
23:15 < newpy> how do I remove the background highlight of directories with the ls command?
23:15 < [R]> newpy: change your LS_COLORS variable
23:16 < newpy> [R] is that a variable to remove highlighting? or just change the color?
23:17 < [R]> huh?
23:17 < mawk> hetii: there is one namespace for the host, one namespace for the docker container, where is the third namespace ?
23:18 < hetii> mawk, just two namespace are, not third
23:18 < mawk> you don't create the first namespace
23:18 < mawk> it's the base namespace for the host
23:18 < hetii> mawk,ok depend if you cound host default namespace then its third
23:19 < hetii> *count
23:19 < mawk> you said you created an additional namespace, plus the docker namespace
23:19 < mawk> the docker namespace is for the docker container, the host namespace is for the host, what do you run in the third namespace ?
23:19 < hetii> mawk, my third namespace act as proxy
23:20 < mawk> you create it with unshare ?
23:20 < hetii> so it link my custom veth pair with docker veth pair
23:20 < mawk> so it lives with a bash shell
23:20 < mawk> why don't you use a bridge for that ?
23:20 < hetii> mawk, because I do custom  routings
23:21 < flargenop> Does anyone know of an open source game similar to Advance Wars? (a gameboy strategy game)
23:21 < hetii> mawk, all my containers have the same ip inside
23:21 < mawk> I see
23:21 < mawk> and how do you create the third namespace so ? using unshare ?
23:21 < hetii> but from host side perspective have uniqe
23:22 < hetii> mawk, by python  like NetNS(netns_name).close()
23:22 < mawk> I see
23:22 < mawk> that may be the problem
23:23 < mawk> you can maybe cook up a little script to create and delete namespaces at will
23:24 < hetii> ok then will investigate more why I have orphaned veths when destroy those namespaces
23:24 < hetii> maybe its a bug in NetNS implementation
23:24 < mawk> creating network namespaces is very basic
23:24 < mawk> it's rather some undefined behavior of that lib
23:24 < mawk> go for the simplest
23:25 < hetii> mawk, so its not possible to say to network namespace, hey please destroy yourself when this pid gone?
23:26 < mawk> yes it is possible hetii
23:26 < jim> flargenop, once we tried to make an ocilloscope out of a gameboy, I never owned one myself... maybe there is another game it's like?
23:26 < mawk> if the namespace is created for that specific PID
23:26 < hetii> oo :)
23:26 < hetii> how :)
23:26 < mawk> otherwise no, it's not possible
23:26 < hetii> 0_0
23:26 < mawk> unless you make a special daemon that's watching for some process death
23:27 < mawk> you have many ways to do that
23:27 < wadadli> how do I reconnect to a guest to complete it's installation after closing virt-viewer?
23:27 < hetii> mawk, I would prefer to set that on system level instead some userspace
23:27 < mawk> having your daemon process spawn the PID then wait() on it, poll for its presence, use proc connectors to watch for its presence
23:27 < mawk> yeah, then it can't really be done with the current namespace framework
23:27 < mawk> sudo unshare -n bash -c 'ip netns add "$1"; ip netns set "$1" $$' bash ns1
23:27 < mawk> that creates a namespace named ns1
23:28 < mawk> you can act on it using ip netns exec ns1 ...command...
23:28 < hetii> mawk, as I assume this namespace will be up till bash process is alive
23:29 < mawk> no hetii
23:29 < mawk> bash dies as soon as the namespace is up
23:29 < mawk> it does when you run ip netns del ns1
23:29 < mawk> iproute is the holder of the namespace
23:29 < mawk> well, not really iproute
23:29 < mawk> the file /run/netns/ns1 is the holder
23:32 < hetii> mawk,  so you think that when I do: ip netns set myExistingNamespace pid_of_docker_container
23:32 < hetii> then will be ok?
23:32 < mawk> ip netns aliases are just aliases
23:33 < mawk> it will make "myExistingNamespace" point to docker's namespace instead
23:33 < mawk> and destroy the third namespace if no PID is alive on it anymore
23:33 < hetii> I got: Error: Peer netns already has a nsid assigned.
23:34 < mawk> yeah, so you can't rename the alias
23:34 < apb1963> How does dhcpd know which subnet is associated with which NIC/interface?  Specifically please.  My wireless clients are getting wired addresses, not sure why other than I can't find a way to map interface to subnet.
23:34 < mawk> there's really no easy way to what you want to do, hetii
23:34 < mawk> you need to make a daemon that will watch for the container death
23:34 < mawk> and destroy the namespace at that moment
23:35 < hetii> mawk, ok thats why I ask If I can do it by kernel/system side or userspace application
23:35 < ococooccoo> what if root has the namespace open
23:36 < mawk> PIDs hold namespace, not users, ococooccoo
23:37 < mawk> or maybe bind-mounted namespace files stolen from a PID
23:37 < mawk> as ip-netns is doing
23:37 < ococooccoo> what if a process with uid 0 has the namespace open?
23:37 < mawk> it doesn't change anything
23:37 < phinxy> How come my grep isnt working :(
23:37 < mawk> if it's a process of uid 0 or of uid 4839084309
23:37 < [R]> phinxy: because you don't know what you are doing
23:38 < phogg> phinxy: what are you trying and what do you expect it to do?
23:38 < ococooccoo> what if a process with uid 4839084309 has the namespace open?
23:39 < mawk> universe explodes
23:39 < stevendale> Long live Debian Wheezy!
23:39 < mawk> because that UID is greater than 2^32-2
23:40 < phogg> apb1963: I assume that it doesn't know. Why would it? Unless you're running two dhcpd instances bound to different interfaces it should treat all clients the same.
23:41 < [R]> aren't uids 16bit?
23:41 < mawk> they were
23:42 < ococooccoo> that would be uid 37141 if it's 16 bit
23:42 < pnbeast> Mine is 17 bits.  I had Linus write a special kernel for me.
23:42 < [R]> pnbeast: lucky
23:43 < phogg> Uh oh, better start planning the conversion to 128bit UIDs now so we are ready before we run out.
23:43 < stevendale> What's a UID
23:44  * pnbeast grants each of his IPv6 addrs an account.
23:44 < catphish> like a user identifier, but shorter
23:45 < catphish> numeric user id
23:46 < hetii> mawk, ok thx for your time
23:46 < phinxy> phogg• https://asciinema.org/a/g5wEFoRvosx3xfZdUs2AuhFbL
23:46 < hetii> i will investigate more this namespace subject and possibilites :)
23:47 < hetii> meantime have a good nigh :)
23:47  * sauvin is still waiting for 128-bit Walmart computers
23:47 < mawk> phinxy: type alias ls
23:47 < mawk> what is the result ?
23:48 < phinxy> alias ls='ls --color=auto'
23:48 < phogg> phinxy: this is not what ls will do if its output is not a tty
23:49 < phogg> phinxy: GNU ls will act like ls -1 if the output is a pipe. Something is more wrong than just grep not doing what you expect.
23:50 < phinxy> Ill check in tty2
23:50 < mawk> | acts as ; in your asciinema
23:51 < mawk> stdin for grep looks like it's your tty, stdout of ls is your tty
23:51 < mawk> something is wrong
23:54 < uplime> ls | grep is just wrong anyways
23:56 < apb1963> phogg, Well, it's bound to a vbridge.  I presume the answer is to run two dhcp daemons, one for each interface so as to keep the subnets separate.
23:58 < Exaeta> I want my RAID array and disks to zero free space. I know there is zerofree but it only works with offline file systems. Is there a way to configure the linux kernel to overwrite empty space with 0s in the background? This would make disk images more compressible without having to take the system offline to run zerofree periodically.
--- Log closed Mon Apr 30 00:00:03 2018