--- Log opened Wed May 02 00:00:05 2018
00:02 < phogg> neoncortex: it's actually both
00:02 < meyou> @neoncortex sounds like Satya is letting engineers override marketing types. i like it!
00:03 < jml2> ok i will wait 2 minutse for 100%headers with apt-get to finish.
00:03 < jml2> i wish debian would fix this
00:04 < phogg> jml2: try a different mirror
00:04 < neoncortex> phogg: still weird
00:04 < jml2> catn be , using the fastest mirror
00:04 < jml2> it's just for apt-get update
00:04 < jml2> apt-get installs are never an issue
00:04 < jml2> surprisingly
00:04 < iflema> don the kids use apt not apt-get?
00:05 < jml2> yeah but i like apt-get sounds so much like ~  :P
00:05 < phogg> jml2: it's still the mirror, install netselect-apt and see which one is best for you
00:06 < phogg> jml2: I'll caveat that a little: it's the mirror or something in between.
00:06 < meyou> doesn't netselect-apt use ping times to determine the fastest mirror?
00:06 < phogg> meyou: Probably. Why?
00:06 < meyou> ping time doesn't seem too relevant for selecting a fast file mirror
00:07 < meyou> 100ms 1Gbps > 5ms 5Mbps
00:07 < phogg> meyou: finding the one with the shortest network path can help a lot
00:07 < phogg> meyou: that said you're right, it may not be better overall
00:08 < jml2> yeah i know of netselect-apt it'ts great to use it right after a post-install -- it's nice indeed
00:08 < jml2> then simply add backports, and non-free contrib things..
00:09 < jml2> it's almost perfect though, it does choose the 2nd fastest at most times but its good enough
00:09 < jml2> :)
00:09 < phogg> I typically see the problem jml2 notes when using the generic ftp.us.debian.org which directs you to some mirror (but it changes). WHen you hit a busy one the responses can become quite bad.
00:09 < iflema> its about load not speed. If everyone rocked up to same server it would be off tap
00:10 < iflema> syncing and what not
00:10 < phogg> indeed
00:10 < meyou> my go-to method is "look at mirrors list, try one that's geographically close, if it's fast use it"
00:10 < phogg> I keep meaning to set up a full mirror on my local net so the few dozen boxes I have can share
00:10 < meyou> so far so good
00:11 < iflema> use your isp's mirror if it has one
00:11 < phogg> it does not
00:11 < phogg> at least, not that I could find a few years ago
00:12 < meyou> i'm surprised the big cloud players don't have CDN'd mirrors
00:12 < meyou> debian.cloudflare.com gogogo
00:14  * jml2 has to fix
00:15 < neoncortex> man .. cloudfire deserves to burn to ashes, with their enginners inside xD
00:15 < blaap> guys, how can I speed up my current kernel editing workflow? I'm installing and building 99% of unmodified stuff on each kernel recompile right now, but not sure how to fix this. Here's my edit-compile-repeat steps: https://paste.linux.community/view/0c5fb39f
00:16 < neoncortex> any site hosted there ask me about car plates nonsense all the time I visit it
00:17 < mawk> the maximum size an ipv6 can be is 39 right ?
00:17 < mawk> size of aaaa:aaaa:aaaa:aaaa:aaaa:aaaa:aaaa:aaaa
00:17 < mawk> why is INET6_ADDRSTRLEN equal to 46 then ?
00:18 < irwiss> neoncortex: that means the site owner selected that
00:18 < bls> mawk: what about the embedded IPv4 notation? or the % notation?
00:19 < mawk> I've thought about the % notation but then the size would be pretty unlimited, not just 46
00:19 < neoncortex> irwiss: I bet it came enabled by default
00:20 < mawk> yeah you're right bls it's the embedded IPv4 notation
00:20 < mawk> aaaa:aaaa:aaaa:aaaa:aaaa:aaaa:255.255.255.255 is 45 bytes long, + 1 for the terminal \0
00:21 < neoncortex> irwiss: also, generally I just click the back button of my browser, those sites are losing my enlightened presence
00:21 < bls> kind of goofy, but makes sense
00:27 < kazdax> okay having cheep beer and hoping to go online on windows
00:27 < kazdax> windows is running under vmwasre so i could just run paltalk chat application
00:27 < kazdax> running under virt-manager to be exact
00:28 < revel> kazdax: Wouldn't Wine be simpler?
00:28 < kazdax> i havnt check to see if it runs on wine
00:28 < kazdax> let me check that out
00:29 < mawk> now I need to make ipv4 packets from scratch, containing an icmp message from scratch
00:29 < mawk> and compute the checksum from scratch
00:29 < mawk> is there some cool lib to do that ? for C
00:31 < bls> looked at packit?
00:32 < mawk> hmm it's a program
00:32 < mawk> maybe I can steal some source code
00:32 < mawk> or libpcap can do it
00:32 < bls> yeah, that's what came up in searches for the library I can't seem to recall
00:33 < kazdax> so yea its probably doable on wine
00:34 < kazdax> why did i even not thinking about that
00:34 < kazdax> slow syndrown
00:34 < kazdax> like down syndrom but just slow
00:35 < notmike> Don't call me names
00:37 < trifesleuth> do you prefer uid209547 ?
00:40 < kazdax> apt-get install wine
00:41 < kazdax> should be enought to get wine ?
00:42 < Psi-Jack> That is definitely a way to get wine, yes.
00:42 < kazdax> okay cool ..let me see if i can setup the windows application to work with it
00:43 < P_B> And they don't even ask to see ID.
00:43 < Psi-Jack> You might also like playonlinux, which is a useful wine wrapper.
00:43 < kazdax> does that allow you to play pc games on a linux '/
00:43 < kazdax> ?
00:44 < Psi-Jack> Look it up.
00:44 < mawk> struct iphdr is in <netinet/ip.h> and <linux/ip.h>
00:45 < mawk> I don't like this
00:45 < mawk> there should be one beautiful canonical way for everything
00:45 < mawk> and now I have two options to have my struct iphdr
00:46 < bls> mawk: #include <ws2tcpip.h> done
00:46 < mawk> :(
00:47 < mawk> I don't like portable things so let's go with <linux/*>
00:48 < trifesleuth> is __sum16 always big endian?
00:49 < trifesleuth> or always host order?
00:51 < mawk> good question
00:51 < mawk> big endian I'd say
00:51 < mawk> because it's for a checksum
00:53 < anickname> hey
00:54 < anickname> how do I add a compiled c++ project to my path
00:54 < anickname> so when I do "make" on another project, it recognizes it
00:55 < anickname> it will recognize the header files i mean
00:55 < xamithan> PATH=$PATH:/your/added/path ?
00:55 < mawk> no xamithan
00:55 < ananke> xamithan: that doesn't work for header files
00:55 < mawk> anickname: you add -Ipath/to/other/project/include to the CPPFLAGS variable
00:55 < bls> anickname: export CPPFLAGS=-I/path/to/headers
00:55 < mawk> also you need to add -Lpath/to/other/project/lib to the CXXFLAGS
00:55 < mawk> uh, to the LDFLAGS sorry
00:56 < mawk> and then to LDLIBS you add -lyourotherlib
00:56 < xamithan> Meh,  he said that after I started typing
00:56 < bls> anickname: that or use an arg to configure if it's autotools based
00:56 < mawk> if you want it statically you add -Wl,--push-state,-static,-lyourotherlib,--pop-state to LDLIBS instead
00:57 < anickname> wait
00:57 < anickname> so like
00:57 < anickname> I do the export CPPFlags?
00:57 < mawk> you wrote Makefile yourself ?
00:57 < bls> anickname: it's one option
00:57 < ananke> ideally, you'd adjust your Makefile
00:57 < anickname> I didn't write the makefile
00:57 < mawk> it was generated ?
00:58 < anickname> I'm trying to compile audacity
00:58 < ananke> anickname: why are you even trying to add header files from one 'compiled' project to another?
00:58 < anickname> and I'm trying to compile a certain audacity "module"
00:58 < ananke> anickname: use packages for your distro instead
00:58 < anickname> that isn't bundled with the official distro package
00:58 < anickname> now audacity is able to compile
00:59 < anickname> but when I compile the module, it tells me "wx.h" is not found
00:59 < anickname> it relies on wxWidgets
00:59 < bls> why do you need to compile audacity to compile a plugin for it?
00:59 < anickname> so I assumed that you needed to add wxWidgets to your path
00:59 < ananke> anickname: so install wxWidgets development package from your distro
00:59 < anickname> because that's what the Audacity developer guide told me lol
00:59 < anickname> I tried installing it but it still didn't recognize it?
00:59 < ananke> anickname: why are you asking us that?
01:00 < ananke> anickname: did you even check if you have 'wx.h' anywhere on your filesystem?
01:00 < anickname> yes
01:00 < anickname> I compiled wxWidgets myself, and Audacity itself recognized it
01:00 < anickname> but the module didn't recognize it
01:00 < anickname> and I was wondering if I had to add it to my path or something
01:00 < anickname> for it to be universally recognized
01:00 < ananke> anickname: why not install wxwidgets from your distro's packages?
01:00 < bls> you've taken on way more work than you likely need compiling all that stuff
01:01 < bls> is there not a wxwidgets-dev and audacity-dev package?
01:01 < anickname> I don't believe so
01:01 < anickname> I'm on puppylinux
01:01 < bls> oh :|
01:01 < anickname> and I tried installing wxwidgets, but it still told me wx.h was not found
01:01 < bls> carry on then
01:01 < anickname> that was via the package manager
01:02 < kazdax> okay is my wine i386 instalatin suppos eto take alot of time ?
01:02 < bls> it's puppy, they've likely stripped all the useful dev stuff out of their packages
01:03 < kazdax> holding breath
01:03 < kazdax> holding it back
01:04 < kazdax> not in terror but in emancipation
01:04 < bls> and if you continue to stick with puppy, expect to deal with this over and over as you find things you want they've removed from the system in the name of convincing people they're the only distro capable of running on "old" hardware
01:04 < kazdax> that this will finally work
01:04 < kazdax> and i dont have to installa complete windows 8.1 VM to run a chat tooll
01:04 < kazdax> hooorayyy for creaitivty
01:05 < ananke> kazdax: you could go share that story on twitter instead
01:12 < djph> ananke: because more people will care?
01:12 < djph> kazdax: you're holding breath in the process of being set free from slavery?
01:13 < energizer> are there some other 'safety aliases' i might want, like `alias mv=mv -i`
01:14 < bls> energizer: that's generally considered an anti-safety feature
01:14 < energizer> bls: why?
01:15 < bls> energizer: 1) people get in the habit of hitting y without looking after a while or 2) people do stick with the habit of checking, but end up on systems without their alias and do damage
01:15 < energizer> bls: ok but that seems like a reasonable price to pay
01:16 < bls> so the thought is to make you overly cautious with all commands, and not have safe and unsafe versions of everything
01:17 < meyou> since you can only control your own environment, better to just keep good backups and let the lesson be learned when they accidentally break something instead of trying to put padding on all the corners
01:17 < mawk> anickname: you need to install the -dev version
01:18 < mawk> to have the development headers
01:18 < schooner> I have a legacy server with several sites, most of which were hacked. Each site has its own user:group. I'm finding a "php5" file nested deep in the site with apache:apache permissions. Does it sound like this is a result of a wordpress vulnerablity or that my server was hacked another way?
01:18 < anickname> mawk where do I get the -dev versions from on puppylinux
01:18 < schooner> That file is being used to mine monero
01:18 < schooner> I dont know how it got there though
01:19 < anickname> because I don't think they're in the main package manager
01:19 < mawk> libfoo-dev on debian
01:19 < bls> you'll be much better served trying to do this kind of dev work on a normal distro
01:19 < mawk> for puppything I don't know
01:20 < energizer> ive heard this a number of times in the linux community. it disagrees with my sense of how they handle things in aviation/medicine/structural-eng (tho admittedly i dont know too much about them)
01:20 < energizer> i wonder what makes the difference, if there is one
01:20 < bls> energizer: those are all formal engineering/professional fields. computing is not
01:21 < energizer> bls: whats the implication of that
01:22 < bls> energizer: computing as a field is still in relative infancy when it comes to things like accepted best practice, body of knowledge, and harm/threat mitigation
01:24 < energizer> bls: i wonder if over time the increasing maturity of the field will bring safer defaults
01:24 < energizer> i'd like to see a study of "does aliasing mv make people mess up more or less, (and more or less disastrously)"
01:28 < djph> "yes"
01:37 < PyDon> hi
01:37 < PyDon> can anyone help me? my sudo make install fails without a proper reason
01:37 < PyDon> any standard log where the cause gets written to?
01:37 < djph> what's the error code?
01:38 < djph> it *should* error to stdout (maybe stderr)
01:39 < phogg> PyDon: if there's any log it will be in the working dir from you make was executed
01:39 < phogg> PyDon: but normally stderr
01:46 < ananke> PyDon: define 'fails'
01:47 < fr0b> maybe because it's being done under sudo its going to the syslog (like /var/log/messages or /var/log/secure).  Seems unlikely though
01:47 < ananke> what are the actual symptoms? describe what you do and what happens
01:47 < PyDon> make: *** [libinstall] Error 1
01:48 < PyDon> so awkward
01:48 < ananke> PyDon: uhmm, we'd need to see stuff before that. pastebin it.
01:48 < stevendale> Hi :3
01:48 < stevendale> You rang PyDon?
01:49 < PyDon> ok, thanks a lot for your help first. I have to come back later
01:50 < dannylee> ,,,
01:58 < giaco> hello
02:00 < giaco> I am creating for the first time a character block device but I am unsure if this is the right way to go. I have a process that generates data that should never stop and/or wait any buffer consumption, I have other processes that should be able to read the character device on demand. Is this the right way to go?
02:08 < kazdax> okay now it wont chancel out the error messages from the exe porgram
02:08 < ayecee> what is a character block device
02:08 < kazdax> i canceleeld the terminakl i wrun it from
02:08 < kazdax> what should i do ?
02:08 < ayecee> kazdax: type slower
02:09 < kazdax> sorry kinda high on beer and benzos
02:09 < kazdax> its a wine error prompt
02:09 < ayecee> maybe take care of that problem first
02:10 < kazdax> saying its sorry it cant run something because of some faulty problem
02:10 < kazdax> idont think i can run this exe windows porgramm on win
02:10 < kazdax> how to cancell wine
02:10 < neoncortex> I think you need coffee =D
02:11 < revel> neoncortex: I think he needs to lay off the stuff.
02:12 < ananke> kazdax: seriously, go on twitter with those stories
02:12 < kazdax> i treid tops
02:12 < kazdax> cant find wine
02:12 < ananke> kazdax: elsewhere. go somewhere else.
02:13 < D-rex> whats the best way to diagnose flash gamesrandomly freezing in chrome/chromium when I unfocus the window.
02:13 < kazdax> jesus christ people
02:13 < kazdax> i am doing a reboot
02:14 < ananke> kazdax: we don't care
02:14 < neoncortex> in your computer?
02:14 < kazdax> brb
02:19 < bls> neoncortex: yes, but this time it's going to be all dark and edgy, none of that bright colored traditional superhero stuff
02:19 < dannylee> i`m sorry..richard stallman want $100 from me but i`m a little bit broke...now i`m not  a member of the free software foundation..i,m just a bit broke....
02:19 < neoncortex> bls: yeah?
02:19 < meyou> we'll miss you at the holiday part dannylee
02:19 < meyou> party*
02:19 < bls> oh wait, wrong kind of reboot
02:20 < phogg> dannylee: I'm sure he'll understand.
02:20 < dannylee> ok
02:20 < phogg> I'll donate twice as much this year to cover the shortfall.
02:20 < ananke> great. as soon as kazdax stops, dannylee picks up.
02:21 < bls> can you send in my donation to the EFF too while you're at it?
02:21 < phogg> this channel would be great if it weren't for all the users
02:21 < phogg> bls: sure
02:21 < kazdax> back sorry for making you guys feel inferior to my awesome drug usage
02:21 < Starcraftmazter> hey guys, in the last few months, ive found that some acpi things stopped working on my dell xps, like resume from suspend and brightness controls. Does anyone know of any recent kernel issues like that?
02:21 < phogg> kazdax: relax, you didn't
02:22 < kazdax> good
02:22 < kazdax> because i felt i was the only problmatic child in here
02:22 < ananke> kazdax: the only inferior thing here is your state of mind
02:22 < phogg> kazdax: next time you need to abort a wine process just find the pid and kill it
02:22 < bls> Starcraftmazter: dell has put out several bad BIOSs for those over the years, might want to look into an update
02:22 < neoncortex> I'm almost convinced that ananke and [R] are the same dude
02:22 < kazdax> seriusly tho now my virt-managaer tells me my network is inactive
02:22 < kazdax> how do i make it active ?
02:23 < Starcraftmazter> bls: yeh will do, however it used to work without any problems, i have 2 dell laptops and they both stopped working regarding that functionality, while i hadnt updated the bios at all
02:23 < ananke> neoncortex: I can spell better [tm]
02:23 < kazdax> it says NAT inactive
02:23 < neoncortex> ananke: oh
02:23 < nver_> Hi everyone.
02:23 < phogg> neoncortex: No way, [R] is cooler and ananke is funnier. Easy to tell them apart.
02:23 < nver_> Give me the best book for a beginner to learn Linux!
02:23 < trifesleuth> hi singleone
02:23 < bls> Starcraftmazter: I had one too that bricked itself one day, no updates or anything
02:23 < nver_> I'm a noob
02:24 < phogg> nver_: Have you heard of the one called "Google.com"? That's the one where I learned everything I know about Linux.
02:24 < kazdax> i am high and drunk but i wann figure out how my system works
02:24 < ananke> nver_: no such thing. pick one that appeals to you and use it.
02:24 < bls> neoncortex: I'm convinced it's three rival factions of chatbots and sockpuppets: the old curmudgeons, the ADD kids, and the emotionally unstable looking for an audience
02:24 < ananke> nver_: likely you may have to try a few until you find one that clicks
02:24 < phogg> nver_: any general-introduction book should serve you well; for specific subtopics come back and ask again
02:24 < D-rex> I think google is the best source for learning anything really
02:25 < nver_> okay, thank you all!
02:25 < kazdax> okay virt-manager is telling me my netowrk is inactive
02:25 < kazdax> i will look into google
02:25 < kazdax> for the mean time please feel free to help
02:25 < neoncortex> bls: that's a reasonable accurate description
02:25 < neoncortex> #an
02:25 < phogg> D-rex: Indeed. A curious mind armed with an internet connection and a web browser can learn almost any subject in depth without spending another dime. It's a marvelous thing.
02:26 < phogg> bls: Which do I fall in to? It's emotionally unstable, by the way. I felt bad for making you guess.
02:27 < bls> it's possible to be a double agent, play both sides against one another
02:28 < phogg> bls is giving away all the secrets
02:30 < kazdax> i got it fixed thanks to google
02:30 < kazdax> now i am going to invite some chinese food
02:30 < phogg> kazdax: Please tell me more about your activities.
02:30 < phogg> it's quite fascinating, and topical
02:30 < kazdax> i did
02:31 < phogg> I'm waiting for the next exciting episode
02:31 < kazdax> sudo virsh net-start default
02:31 < kazdax> wallah that worked
02:31 < kazdax> i dont know why ..which i should
02:31 < kazdax> but for now it works
02:31 < kazdax> time is precius
02:31 < kazdax> precious
02:32 < D-rex> :(){ :|: & };:
02:32 < phogg> tonight in ##linux we have become kazdax's twitter feed
02:32 < phogg> D-rex: please don't, not even as a joke
02:32 < D-rex> your right
02:32 < D-rex> youre
02:33 < phogg> your left, I'm right!
02:33 < bls> D-rex: that'll get you banned if the right people are paying attention, FYI
02:33 < D-rex> sorry =(
02:33 < D-rex> i diddnt give any instructions with it
02:34 < phogg> a big scary warning would have helped
02:34 < phogg> fun quiz: what characters are *illegal* in a bash function name?
02:34 < ananke> D-rex: instructions would have been irrelevant in this case. don't do it
02:35 < bls> heh, need to find something to put my forkbomb sticker on
02:35 < Silvester> i ain't no lawyer, if the irs hasn't come to check my scripts yet they're definitely legal
02:35 < djph> bls: sounds fun, where'd you get it from?
02:35 < bls> djph: https://www.unixstickers.com
02:36 < neoncortex> phogg: probably $
02:36 < phogg> neoncortex: that is one, yes
02:36 < neoncortex> also /
02:36 < phogg> neoncortex: nope
02:37 < phogg> a/ () { echo hi ; } ; a/
02:37 < neoncortex> oh, that's new to me
02:37 < phogg> works as a leading char, too
02:37 < phogg> you can have a function literally named '/'
02:37 < phogg> but not \
02:37 < WorldGenesis[v]> -_-;
02:38 < neoncortex> I hope no one are brain damaged enough to name a function /
02:38 < djph> bls: oh nice - not a bad price either
02:38 < WorldGenesis[v]> a function named / would make me very uneasy
02:38 < phogg> neoncortex: you don't need brain damage, just a devious sense of fun!
02:39 < D-rex> yeha i ordered a couple fbomb stickers
02:39 < neoncortex> heh
02:40 < neoncortex> also @ are not allowed probably
02:40 < phogg> bzzt, times up: these are illegal: \ $ { [ ; > < & ( ) | ' "
02:41 < bls> I got git, OSI, emacs, curl, flask, C, forkbomb, some rage comics, a tux, BSDevil, etc
02:41 < phogg> note that ] and } are missing, among others
02:41 < bls> so \0 / NULL is allowed?
02:41 < neoncortex> so I can name functions / and @ .. that would be awesome in a shared machine
02:41 < liveuser1> putting off the reboot for wiping the bootsector
02:41 < phogg> some of the legal chars can only be used as part of a name but can't be used by themselves alone.
02:42 < liveuser1> is reiser4 depracated?
02:42 < phogg> neoncortex: only if you poisoned /etc/bashrc or something
02:42 < liveuser1> why do the newer kernels not include reiser4 support?
02:42 < neoncortex> phogg: yes, assuming you're root
02:42 < liveuser1> it does appear to be old
02:42 < phogg> liveuser1: it's not something I'd recommend as it was never particularly stable and I don't know that it's maintained
02:42 < bls> liveuser1: needs someone to support it
02:42 < liveuser1> phogg: "particularly"?
02:43 < liveuser1> it works
02:43 < phogg> liveuser1: reiserfs3 saw many years of production use, reiser4 was just barely release quality when everything went sideways.
02:43 < neoncortex> I think I have used it, in Slackware 10 or something old like that
02:43 < phogg> the unknown unknowns on it are pretty large; given its complexity I'd not choose it for a server
02:43 < liveuser1> phogg: it is an American military filesystem , no?
02:43 < bls> and yet the rumors of its superior performance are still with us today
02:43 < ananke> if I recall, there was nobody that would maintain reiserfs4 code
02:44 < phogg> liveuser1: No
02:44 < neoncortex> It's said to be faster on installer
02:44 < liveuser1> phogg: a department of defense project, daarpa
02:44 < phogg> liveuser1: Might have been funded that way but that's not to say anyone at the DoD uses it
02:44 < ananke> liveuser1: got any actual authorative sources for that?
02:45 < phogg> I know the DoD uses ext3 and ext4, likely some people insist on xfs because they can read charts.
02:45 < liveuser1> considering installing linux 4.14 on hard disk but finding it doesnt have reiser4 support
02:45 < bls> why would you want to install reiserfs4?
02:45 < triceratux> liveuser1: hans colluded with the russians
02:45 < phogg> it's basically like anywhere else: the distros default filesystem is used
02:46 < revel> Sounds like a dealbreaker to me lmao
02:46 < ananke> liveuser1: why would you want to use reiserfs4? it's pointless.
02:46 < liveuser1> bls: do you see so many hashsums all over and cryptography relying on hashsums
02:46 < phogg> ananke: the cool features!
02:46 < revel> ananke: Because it's the most badass of filesystems.
02:46 < revel> See: its creator.
02:46 < phogg> liveuser1: if you want checksums use btrfs.
02:46 < liveuser1> it uses 512b size sectors so the data is read accurate
02:46 < phogg> revel: you're going to make me post the cartoon
02:47 < revel> Do it.
02:47 < ananke> liveuser1: block size has nothing to do with 'read accuracy'
02:47 < liveuser1> and looking into reiser4 it looks like it can hash every file
02:47 < neoncortex> It's remembered me the FreeBSD filesystem .. I don't know why but it took ages to copy files to one place to another, from hard disk to a pendrive, for example
02:47 < neoncortex> UFS
02:47 < liveuser1> ananke: there's been cases where the size of something apparently caused an altered checksum, templeOS
02:47 < bls> I'm not getting the relationship between reiserfs4 and cryptography using hashsums
02:47 < ananke> tail packing was probably the only notable feature of reiserfs, other than being an early journaling fs on linux
02:47 < phogg> revel: https://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/so-i-married-a-kernel-programmer you asked for it
02:48 < phogg> liveuser1: btrfs hashes every *block*
02:48 < phogg> liveuser1: templeOS? Okay, now I *know* you're trolling.
02:48 < revel> phogg: I don't get the lime part.
02:49 < liveuser1> so how is it linux 4.14.0 hasnt reiser4 support but 4.14.20 does
02:49 < phogg> revel: you can dissolve corpses using a bathtub and lime
02:49 < ananke> liveuser1: size change indicates explicit change in content. so yes, a checksum would be different
02:49 < liveuser1> are the subsequent releases custom?
02:49 < revel> lol
02:49 < bls> revel: you put lime in open graves to speed up decomp
02:49 < revel> Replace "lime" with" time". And lots of it.
02:49 < meyou> lime like the chemical
02:49 < meyou> or the fruit?
02:49 < liveuser1> ananke: there was something like that happening with templeOS
02:49 < phogg> meyou: the chemical
02:49 < meyou> makes sense
02:50 < jml2> the templeOS guy got his channel removed from YT for saying the N word
02:50 < ananke> liveuser1: not sure how that's of any relevance to this discussion
02:50 < liveuser1> it looks like the author intentionally made the cd a size which would cause it to add data
02:50 < liveuser1> you asked!
02:50 < liveuser1> so how is it linux 4.14.0 hasnt reiser4 support but 4.14.20 does
02:50 < D-rex> jml2: they remove your channel for that?
02:50 < phogg> liveuser1: look at the changelogs and find out
02:50 < stevendale> OwO
02:50 < ananke> liveuser1: honestly, you're not making much sense
02:50 < D-rex> I hear people say that and worse and not have their channel removed
02:51 < jml2> D-rex, he's nuts he was also make 15+ minute videos just on ranting against LT -- a fake "LT" account
02:51 < phogg> D-rex: youtube is fickle
02:51 < jml2> D-rex, he does have actual mental issues
02:51 < jml2> D-rex, just by watching his videos..
02:51 < liveuser1> ananke: to cut to it, how difficult is it to add support for reiser4 in 4.14.0 or 4.15
02:51 < jml2> D-rex, and other behaviour elsewhere
02:52 < liveuser1> the consideration is making a virtualbox machine on the disk
02:52 < D-rex> selective enforcement
02:52 < jml2> D-rex, but this guy was constantly using it all the time XD
02:52 < bls> liveuser1: it wasn't removed by the kernel team, distros have just quit enabling it
02:52 < ananke> liveuser1: if you have to ask, the answer is : hard. not to mention, it's an absurd quest, because you'd have to maintain it with every update
02:52 < liveuser1> where everything I run is crypto inside the vbox so I can safley leave the machine
02:52 < jml2> D-rex, not just 1 video.. and also in the worst forms of it as well f* N* and more..
02:52 < D-rex> well maybe if he was trying to form a hate group or something
02:52 < phogg> D-rex: probably selective reporting by users, too
02:52 < jml2> D-rex, no he's the actual author of templeOS
02:52 < phogg> liveuser1: sounds like you want Qubes
02:52 < bls> reiserfs has nothing to do with drive encryption
02:53 < liveuser1> rutowski
02:53 < jml2> D-rex, dont think of any part of any hate group -- its his vocabulary in describing LT as well.. lol his yt videos are archived somewhere out there..  saw them long ago
02:53 < liveuser1> did she build it?
02:54 < phogg> liveuser1: who?
02:54 < jml2> D-rex, couldn't stand watching more than 2 of them.
02:54 < liveuser1> Qubes, JoAnna Rutowski
02:54 < jml2> D-rex, all of his videos are stupid :))
02:54 < D-rex> jml2: gotcha,  I dont agree with racial slurs, just the fact that worse has been said and theres a lot of mentally unstable youtubers who still have channels
02:54 < phogg> liveuser1: I've no idea of the names of the people involved, I've only read some of the papers.
02:54 < liveuser1> I considered ordering the Qubes laptop
02:54 < jml2> D-rex, I KNOW. but trust me NOT AS BAD as this guy, which surprises me he even lasted quite long
02:55 < liveuser1> the vbox kernel is actually 4.15
02:55 < liveuser1> does it support reiser4?
02:55 < bls> D-rex: he has severe paranoid schizophrenia that comes out as racism, homophobia, and messiah complex
02:55 < jml2> D-rex, if you see any of his videos you'll see what i mean.. I doubt you can find any worse than him :))
02:55 < jml2> D-rex, and really really foul language constantly..
02:55 < D-rex> jml2: ill take your word for it
02:55 < D-rex> dont want to get infected
02:56 < liveuser1> when debian is installed the vbox package upgrades the kernel to 4.15, is there any way to assure it supports reiser4 without hours of install and erase if npt
02:56 < jml2> yeah he has some s* mental paranoia attribute
02:57 < liveuser1> I use reiser4 there's the proof.
02:58 < neoncortex> That's interesting, I tought schizophrenia was a kind of allucination, like see/hear things, but seems like it have lots of 'flavors'
02:58 < jml2> "Support for the ReiserFS file system is no longer included by default. To use ReiserFS for a new system, select partman-reiserfs in the selection dialog for optional installer components (at medium or low priority) or boot the installer with 'modules?=partman-reiserfs'."
02:58 < jml2> 2010 :)
02:58 < liveuser1> schizophrenia could be described by netsplits
02:58 < liveuser1> the well known irc netsplits
02:59 < jml2> neoncortex, ever seen one of his videos? nuts.
02:59 < liveuser1> jml2: is this for compiling a kernel?
02:59 < jml2> neoncortex, I also took note about it when someone posted about his "LT" rant
02:59 < liveuser1> the thought here is to install from debian
02:59 < jml2> neoncortex, the one with him ranting against a "fake LT" account..
02:59 < jml2> neoncortex, lol .. that's how I found out about them..
03:00 < jml2> neoncortex, but even then his account has been removed and I took a note how crazy he was
03:00 < D-rex> i think the hallucinations with paranoid delusions is probably the crazier end of the spectrum
03:00 < liveuser1> there can be cognition anomolies
03:00 < liveuser1> when a netsplit occours
03:00 < liveuser1> the question is how can oneself be aware of it's own anomolies
03:01 < liveuser1> describe that with amtu
03:01 < neoncortex> jml2: Never seen any, just the schizophrenia part of your conversation caught my attention
03:01 < jml2> neoncortex, ? XD
03:01 < liveuser1> an abstract self is generated in a fractal playground at any given moment
03:01 < liveuser1> not really 2
03:01 < jml2> neoncortex, not conversing, if you read I am confirming the "brought topic" about it :)
03:01 < liveuser1> but a transient transcendence
03:01 < jml2> neoncortex, it was liveuser1 who mentioned "templeOS" -- read above :P
03:01 < neoncortex> oh =D
03:02 < jml2> neoncortex, "schizo" :)
03:02 < liveuser1> one is the superposition of the transient self
03:02 < jml2> neoncortex, I think your friend is a big trolly.
03:02 < jml2> :)
03:02 < liveuser1> My Bretheren
03:02 < jml2> neoncortex, who the f is he talking to?
03:02 < liveuser1> how can absolute ONE claim to have bretheren
03:02  * jml2 ignores liveuser1 for good.
03:02 < jml2> ahem better :)
03:03  * triceratux shakes his mouse to try to produce enough entropy for pacman to work
03:03 < liveuser1> kernel 4.15
03:03 < liveuser1> the congregation
03:03 < D-rex> triceratux: keep shaking it
03:04 < djph> triceratux: good luck
03:04 < alienpirate5> attempting to isntall i3-gaps on opensolaris 2009.04
03:04 < alienpirate5> i don't know why
03:04 < alienpirate5> but I'm doing it
03:04 < liveuser1> open for a ddc pairing
03:04 < liveuser1> send privmsg
03:06 < payonel> anyone here familiar with the terminal<->cursor communication? i was wondering how the cursor (whether in a pty or tty) can blink with the current char's color,and not the terminal set color
03:06 < payonel> i believe what i am referring to as the terminal<->cursor is what the vte calls tty<->host
03:06 < liveuser1> is there some way to grep debian website to see if kernel 4.15 supports reiser4
03:07 < neoncortex> It's remembered me that, yesterday, I discovered that most people see things when close their eyes, like images and colors .. I have never seen any =(
03:07 < payonel> i can't just use \27[7m because should use the terminal's current color, and not the color used at a given position
03:07 < bls> I believe that coloration is terminal implementation specific
03:08 < liveuser1> do you want to get UNIX up and running again
03:08 < payonel> bls: that's not quite what i'm asking. though i take the blame, it is a tricky thing to ask clearly
03:08 < payonel> bls: i am building my own virtual emulator, and a linux-like os. i have a shell and tty and .. etc
03:09 < liveuser1> after having it all set on 32bit I can copy out to the 64bit cpu
03:09 < payonel> bls: i am trying to emulate things that exist. the issue i have is that i dont have a good solution for using the current char's color for the blinking cursor
03:09 < neoncortex> jml2: he must be trolling or a bot, it's not possible
03:09 < liveuser1> from there breaking the hex interpretor is a few tasks
03:10 < payonel> there is a vt100 code to "flip" the colors, but, that uses the terminal color, not the current char color
03:10 < jml2> neoncortex, yep
03:10 < bls> so you need to either query the pty to ask what the color of the cell under the cursor is or somehome remember?
03:10 < jml2> neoncortex, feel free to call dah op police!!
03:10 < bls> somehow
03:10 < payonel> bls: correct. but i have not found a spec that says "get color at position"
03:10 < payonel> or flip at position, etc
03:11 < jml2> neoncortex, i called on them yesterday after they were acting up with random quotes like this
03:11 < payonel> vt100 has \27[7m, but that is "flip current set terminal color"
03:11 < jml2> neoncortex, so finally I just have to use /ignore on them and be done with it
03:11 < liveuser1> phogg: btrfs is considered for SkyNet
03:12 < liveuser1> phogg: I don't have the radio hardware ready for it yet.
03:13 < rypervenche> liveuser1: Might be able to download the kernel deb and find the config in it.
03:13 < trifesleuth> are you building a learning computer?
03:14 < bls> payonel: seen this? https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/177341
03:15 < pepee> TIL:  http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd
03:15 < payonel> pepee: i use gentoo, sans systemd
03:16 < neoncortex> also I have to discover how to allow a software to print in terminal with custom colors, like #aaafff
03:16 < payonel> bls: ha :) actually, i had just found it. sometimes explaining the problem helps you think of new wording that MIGHT hit google results
03:16 < bls> payonel: hehe: talk to the duck
03:16 < triceratux> pepee: good luck running any of those other than MX-17
03:17 < pepee> openwrt/LEDE works just fine for me
03:17 < rypervenche> pepee: +1
03:24 < liveuser1> is qubes vbox based or qemu?
03:24 < liveuser1> or xen
03:25 < Psi-Jack> Xen
03:26 < jml2> rypervenche, tell Psi-Jack ... let's get rid of this jerk
03:26 < jml2> rypervenche, (liveuser)
03:26 < liveuser1> Psi-Jack: have you used it?
03:27  * jml2 tells Psi-Jack liveuser*1 is a random-quote bot
03:27 < jml2> good thing I was suspicious yesterday and called ops on them yesterday
03:27 < jml2> random quotes, and talks to random users..
03:28 < jml2> (on random topics over and over again XD)
03:28 < jml2> lol
03:28 < liveuser1> qubes is in consideration, not right now
03:30 < blaztek> liveuser1: trouble with tribbles
03:30 < liveuser1> if reiser4 is patched it isn't going to show in the config is it rypervenche
03:31 < liveuser1> many times reiser4 is a patch kit
03:31 < liveuser1> applied by includes
03:31 < liveuser1> make includes
03:31 < jml2> rypervenche, see? XD
03:32 < Psi-Jack> liveuser1: Are you real or memorex?
03:33 < liveuser1> real
03:33 < liveuser1> liveuser
03:33 < Psi-Jack> Okay then. Good to know.
03:34 < Psi-Jack> And no, I haven't used Qubes. I rather dislike Xen personally.
03:34 < liveuser1> this is live
03:35 < liveuser1> Psi-Jack: have you ever been stuck in wayland
03:35 < Psi-Jack> What?
03:35 < neoncortex> liveuser1: what if it's recorded?
03:35 < liveuser1> what if
03:38 < Psi-Jack> So, why are you asking about Qubes?
03:38 < liveuser1> if 4.15 is installed how can 4.14 be marked for holding and not autoremove
03:38 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, totally random.
03:38 < liveuser1> debian testing (kalilinux)
03:38 < suffer> liveuser1: is that live like "live" or live like "live"?
03:38 < neoncortex> liveuser1: we are trapped inside something like a movie, everything we are already programmed, the toughtss in your mind apperars because someone programmed it to appear there, in that order ..
03:38 < neoncortex> #everything we going to do
03:39 < liveuser1> Psi-Jack: somebody suggested it after I described using vbox for security purposes
03:39 < fareast> debian dropped me in console after install anyone know how to enable the gui
03:39 < Psi-Jack> liveuser1: Okay. Why do you keep changing subjects randomly?
03:40 < Psi-Jack> And keep in mind, Kali Linux is not Debian. it's Debian-based, but is not Debian.
03:40 < Psi-Jack> By a LONG shot.
03:40 < WishBoy> vsftpd or proftpd more security?
03:40 < Psi-Jack> Neither.
03:40 < Psi-Jack> No FTPD at all.
03:40 < triceratux> fareast: type "startx"
03:40 < WishBoy> Psi-Jack ftp over ssh?
03:40 < fareast> Psi-Jack, I am going in with debian I installed 8gb ram and ssd and atheros card in this dell inspiron i3
03:40 < Psi-Jack> No.
03:41 < fareast> command not found...
03:41 < fareast> I imagine in order to get apt-get to work I need to plugin an ethernet cable
03:41 < WishBoy> Psi-Jack then, how i send the website files to the server?
03:42 < Psi-Jack> WishBoy: ssh.
03:42 < Psi-Jack> scp
03:42 < Psi-Jack> rsync
03:42 < WishBoy> Psi-Jack SFTP over SSH?
03:42 < Psi-Jack> A number of much better ways.
03:42 < Psi-Jack> No.
03:42 < WishBoy> oh i will try scp
03:42 < Psi-Jack> There's no FTP in any of those..
03:42  * liveuser1 thumb ups @rypervenche
03:42 < WishBoy> Psi-Jack ok :P thanks <3
03:42 < liveuser1> about the only non hostile chatter
03:43 < fareast> I can see the root of the drive
03:43 < fareast> but no startx command
03:43 < liveuser1> these things can go before My Brethren
03:43 < fareast> where does that reside?
03:44 < liveuser1> neoncortex: what is it is all recorded
03:44 < Psi-Jack> liveuser1: Do you have any linux subjects you'd like to discuss, without constantly changing subjects completely randomly and nonsensically?
03:44 < chchjesus> Gidday friends
03:44 < chchjesus> Anyone wanna talk about Microsoft's recent announcement to foray [back] into Linux?
03:44 < neoncortex> liveuser1: that's right
03:45 < liveuser1> innagoddadavida baby
03:45 < chchjesus> it just seems like EEE all over again
03:45 < Psi-Jack> !ops liveuser1 Seems to be a bot.
03:45 < xamithan> Is windows 11 going to be linux ?
03:46 < chchjesus> No, they've announced a new IOT OS using the Linux Kernel
03:46 < chchjesus> and development looks like it will be restricted to using Visual Studio
03:46 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: There will be no Windows 11. 10 will become an OS as a Subscription model.
03:46 < Psi-Jack> :p
03:46 < xamithan> So another android,  I'm not excited
03:47 < chchjesus> xamithan: Not quite. They want to go full Internet-Of-Things
03:47 < xamithan> Windows365
03:47 < xamithan> I like it
03:47 < xamithan> Subs for one year
03:48 < chchjesus> And as some youtube commenter mentioned: Next: Microsoft announces they will buy Canonical
03:48 < neoncortex> that would be hillarious
03:48 < xamithan> Maybe Windows365 will only have a thin client running linux kernel then you'll need internet to use it
03:48 < chchjesus> (which isn't actually news, but speculation, so don't take it as truth)
03:49 < chchjesus> Windows365? I'm talking about this new thing called "Sphere OS"
03:49 < chchjesus> And as Lunduke has mentioned, the fact that it's GPLv2 gives Microsoft the chance to Tivoise
03:50 < chchjesus> s/Tivoise/Tivo-ize/
03:50 < neoncortex> liveuser1: there is a way to break out of the movie, but it's a secret
04:04 < neoncortex> heh, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqp9LIl5MH4
04:27 < liveuser1> wiped the first 446 sectors and rewrote lilo and gparted still reports iso9660
04:28 < liveuser1> where is gparted reading an iso9660 signature from?
04:28 < liveuser1> the entire disk has been mapped out
04:28 < liveuser1> except possibly the end past the MB of the last part
04:29 < liveuser1> is it possible it reads an iso9660 fingerprint from there?
04:29 < Psi-Jack> liveuser1: Excessive use of enter key. Please do not consider enter to be punctuation or pauses in thought as people will more likely not want to read through jumbled rambling.
04:30 < blaztek> liveuser1: it gets the fingerprint from the down town police station
04:31 < The_Schmidt> liveuser1: I'd suggest running dban on it before your format, unless there's stuff to save first, copy that stuff off and then do it
04:32 < liveuser1> yeah that was done or at least zeroing before the install
04:32 < liveuser1> I don't want to waste days of work
04:32 < energizer> I want my script to check if there's a GUI or not. What's a portable way of doing that?
04:32 < The_Schmidt> often a quickformat doesn't overwrite stuff that an os sees
04:33 < liveuser1> the rescue cd was dumped to the disk and booted into ram then everything went from there rewriting the partitions
04:33 < liveuser1> now it continues to detect the erased iso
04:33 < blaztek> energizer: check the DISPLAY variable?
04:33 < The_Schmidt> energizer: might have it look for xserver files in the default user's home directory if you want to see if he runs one
04:34 < The_Schmidt> that^ is probably better
04:35 < liveuser1> do you suggest mkfs does quick formats The_Schmidt
04:36 < dannylee> linux will be on top in the next few years...linux might really be god
04:36 < The_Schmidt> liveuser1: It's been a while since I looked at the man page, but it might
04:36 < dannylee> no i just really love my linux machine
04:37 < The_Schmidt> liveuser1: here's the kicker in the man page, mkfs calls other program to actually do the partitioning
04:37 < liveuser1> yeah and each release has different versions of the file system
04:38 < liveuser1> makes for many problems
04:38 < The_Schmidt> dban is probably required for a windows install if it's had any linux on it before
04:39 < liveuser1> The_Schmidt: not really
04:40 < liveuser1> windows does full formatting and has ntldr it isnt going to be awar of any of the linux data
04:40 < blaztek> Last time I used mkfs it told me to use mkfs.ext4
04:40 < liveuser1> though windows hasn't much of interest except looking at the past
04:41 < iwelcomethealien> Hello
04:41 < iwelcomethealien> How are you all?
04:41 < dannylee> ok man
04:42 < iwelcomethealien> Does anyone know of a program/script that sets random wallpapers from google earth? similar to Earth View for Chrome?
04:42 < dannylee> am i a alien
04:42 < iwelcomethealien> I want to have pretty earth photos randomly changing every few hours or so.
04:42 < stevendale> Hey
04:42 < iwelcomethealien> dannylee: an* alien.
04:42  * stevendale downloading http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/debian-cd/9.4.0/i386/iso-cd/debian-9.4.0-i386-netinst.iso
04:42 < dannylee> ok i cant spell
04:42 < iwelcomethealien> stevendale: internode is the tits. I like their mirrors.
04:42 < stevendale> iwelcomethealien :) Yeah, they're my ISP ^w^
04:42 < iwelcomethealien> dannylee: it is okay, you're *a* alien.
04:42 < dannylee> c0000l
04:43 < iwelcomethealien> stevendale: they also give you static ip for like 5$ a month. Dope.
04:43 < neoncortex> iwelcomethealien: they spelled it wrong because they are an alien, you do not expect aliens to know our language 100%
04:43 < dannylee> i have royal blue eyes
04:43 < iwelcomethealien> stevendale: used to have symmetric upload/download, not sure if they still do.
04:43 < stevendale> iwelcomethealien: Every single time the internet has broke it's been a problem on our side
04:43 < stevendale> Not on theirs
04:44 < iwelcomethealien> stevendale: So you broke the internet?! bad bad steve. ;)
04:44 < iwelcomethealien> Anyways, wallpaper script anyone? please don't tell me I have to write this myself. :(
04:44 < liveuser1> The_Schmidt: do you think making a partition image and rewriting it effectivley does a full format expecting it to write zeroes where the old data was not overformatted
04:44 < stevendale> My Dell Inspiron 6000 arrived probably 20 minutes ago, Intel Pentium M 740 @ 1.73 GHz, Intel 915GM Graphics, 60 GB HDD, 512 MB DDR2 SDRAM in Dual-Channel @ 400 MHz
04:44 < The_Schmidt> liveuser1: how big is the partition, and how long did it take to write?
04:45 < stevendale> Gave it a good clean with isopropal alcohol
04:45 < neoncortex> stevendale: what you going to do with it?
04:45 < liveuser1> many partitions of varying size, thinking of using disks (palimpsests) to image these
04:45 < stevendale> neoncortex: Probably put Debian on it for starters :)
04:45 < The_Schmidt> liveuser1: if it took less than 10 min, it's likely a quickformat
04:46 < stevendale> neoncortex Maybe medical research, I have solar panels :)
04:46 < stevendale> Protein folding and stuff
04:46 < dannylee> microsoft spends $50 million..to kill the linux project..they get to all of update...but linux is really strong..we just wont quit
04:46 < neoncortex> stevendale: oh nice
04:46 < dannylee> are
04:46 < liveuser1> the question is does palimpsests copy raw data from the disk or copy the filesystem data which is going to report the unused space as blank (zeroes maybe)
04:46 < stevendale> It probably won't make much of a difference, but there's a tiny chance, one in a billion that it finds a cure for cancer
04:47  * aBound wants an iced coffee :P
04:47 < liveuser1> if this can work a flow of lay a large part, roll binaries, resize, image, use in vbox or rewrite to hd
04:48 < neoncortex> stevendale: if we think about it, nothing we can think to do can make a great difference, but we have to do, anyway
04:48 < liveuser1> this has been the attempt that leads to discovering all of these filesystem discrepancies
04:48 < stevendale> Shoot everyone who has cancer, cancer's gone, simple as that :P
04:48 < stevendale> Jk, it's a biproduct of life
04:48 < neoncortex> hah
04:49 < stevendale> It's in all of us, usually dormant
04:49 < neoncortex> I have heard that we born with it already, but some people manifest it, some don't
04:49 < liveuser1> if this is done hashable backups can be made of every system and prepared for microchips avoiding the hexeditors
04:50 < liveuser1> making linux into real ROM's
04:50 < aBound> Linux into ROM's? :P
04:50 < aBound> Does it include goodies.
04:50 < stevendale> Gameboy roms? :P
04:50 < neoncortex> to avoid hexeditors xD
04:51  * aBound says avoid the hextor
04:51 < jim> MrElendig, continuing our converation about atheros, are the earlier models still ok?
04:51 < stevendale> Yay it boots off USB :P
04:51 < stevendale> That's always a good sign :P
04:52  * aBound boots into stevendale computer :P
04:52 < jim> did you find some ecco boots in there?
04:54 < liveuser1> neoncortex: yeah
04:54 < stevendale> Well yay
04:54 < stevendale> The HDD led works :P
04:54 < neoncortex> liveuser1: what's wrong with hexeditors?
04:55 < liveuser1> stevendale: any ro rom
04:55 < liveuser1> can be a cdrom to start with
04:56 < liveuser1> though something the size of a dime is more attractive
04:57 < neoncortex> the world is the size of a dime .. they are lying to you
04:57 < liveuser1> The_Schmidt: any thoughts about using palimpsest image writer to achieve the described flow
04:59 < The_Schmidt> sorry I don't know it
05:05 < liveuser1> each kernel has different versions of the filesystems
05:05 < liveuser1> take sgi xfs as an example
05:05 < liveuser1> an old version and a new version have conflicting superblocks
05:06 < liveuser1> data integrity cannot be held with many conflicting file versoins
05:13 < _0aSealsRock12> Hello
05:13 < The_Schmidt> That's funny I have a bios that says "version" in it
05:13 < The_Schmidt> excuse me "versoin"
05:14 < Psi-Jack> You mean version?
05:14 < Psi-Jack> Or is it actually mispelled? heh
05:14 < The_Schmidt> my bios says "versoin"  hard to type it wrong
05:14 < Psi-Jack> Odd.. What BIOS brand?
05:14 < stevendale> Megabyte
05:14 < liveuser1> heh
05:14 < The_Schmidt> I forget
05:15 < Psi-Jack> AMI (American Megatrends), Phoenix, or Award?
05:15 < The_Schmidt> I think AMI
05:15 < stevendale> No it's a megabyte motherboard
05:15 < stevendale> :P
05:15 < Psi-Jack> That would be very odd for AMI.
05:15 < Psi-Jack> Well, any of the three, but still. LOL
05:16 < liveuser1> The_Schmidt: what do you need
05:16 < The_Schmidt> nothing
05:16 < stevendale> Debian Stretch working great on my Inspiron 6000 with 512 MB RAM and a 1.73 GHz 32-bit single core CPU :D
05:16 < triceratux> uname -a or it didnt happen
05:16 < stevendale> I set my hostname as 'Coal'
05:17 < stevendale> Okay let me get an irssi
05:18 < neoncortex> The_Schmidt: took a picture of it
05:18 < iopq> how do I use my onboard and dedicated GPU at the same time? I turned it on in the BIOS, but when Ubuntu boots it doesn't turn it on
05:19 < Aztec03> I think I wanna build a bug killer with my microwave oven trafo
05:19 < Aztec03> aw fuck wrong place
05:19 < iopq> when I reboot it has a logo, though, lol
05:19 < iopq> it doesn't detect it, but when I reboot it actually shows something
05:21 < The_Schmidt> neoncortex: can't right now, will wake the wifey
05:21 < stevendale> Brb
05:22 < neoncortex> The_Schmidt: no problem =D
05:22 < stevendale> Hey
05:22 < stevendale> Linux Coal 4.9.0-6-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 4.9.88-1 (2018-04-29) i686 GNU/Linux
05:22 < stevendale> CPU~Single core Intel Pentium M (-UP-) speed~1733 MHz (max) Kernel~4.9.0-6-686-pae i686 Up~6 min Mem~48.0/489.5MB HDD~60.0GB(2.5% used) Procs~68 Client~Irssi 1.0.7-1~deb9u1 inxi~2.3.5
05:22 < iopq> I have AMD and intel onboard
05:23 < triceratux> stevendale: yep nothing wrong with original vanilla debian ;)
05:23 < stevendale> Battery 0: design capacity 4800 mAh, last full capacity 2669 mAh = 55%
05:24 < stevendale> I got this for $45.00 Australian dollars on eBay
05:24 < stevendale> Free shipping
05:24 < stevendale> I'm pretty sure shipping would've been $45 by itself
05:26 < stevendale> Need tlp installed so battery life is good triceratux :)
05:27 < neoncortex> I want one of these in my living room https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-2818-A01-zSeries-z114-A01-26-MIPS-64GB-Memory-3863-q9/282680540983?hash=item41d112bf37:g:ZacAAOSwObhaXz7H
05:29 < bullgard4> [Debian unstable] Can inxi print the screen dimensions used? Grepping 'man inxi' for 'dimension' does not produce any ourput.
05:29 < iopq> oh there's an intel graphics update tool
05:31 < darkdrgn2k> is there any reason a fc00/8 ipv6 address would show up in FORWARD but never hit POSTROUTING ?
05:31 < bullgard4> s/ourput/output/
05:32 < Sitri> bullgard4: you can use xrandr for that
05:33 < darkdrgn2k> "May  2 03:18:31 tomesh-8668 kernel: [ 2749.468856] IN=wlan-ap OUT=tun0 MAC=b8:27:eb:13:76:3a:44:2c:05:df:98:92:86:dd SRC=fdfc:0000:0000:0000:dd16:d9ce:18f1:341b DST=fcaa:5785:a537:90db:6513:bba9:87a0:12a7 LEN=88 TC=0 HOPLIMIT=127 FLOWLBL=0 PROTO=ICMPv6 TYPE=128 CODE=0 ID=1 SEQ=257" i see that in FORWARD but that packet never hit postrouting
05:33 < bullgard4> Sitri: Yes, I know that. - Thank you.
05:33 < stevendale> okay brb gonna try setting up nmcli
05:38 < energizer> is this the right way to encrypt a drive? sudo cryptsetup --verify-passphrase luksFormat /dev/sdb1 -c aes -s 256 -h sha256
05:51 < iopq> so I still have the same issue after running the intel graphics update tool
05:55 < alexey-nemovff> hi folks!
05:58 < ||JD||> 0/
06:04 < The_Schmidt> neoncortex: ok I uploaded a pic https://imgur.com/gallery/Aqw7Gj7
06:16 < neoncortex> The_Schmidt: hah, nice
06:19 < julian-g> Hello. I'm looking for some advice regarding getting better at bash. I'm reading a book on basic command line usage, and I often have to go back in the chapters to remember how to do something. I know that practive plays angreat part on learning. If anyone can spare some advice it'd be appreciated. Thanks.
06:20 < john_rambo> If I reboot my PC there is no ethernet connection available ... if I remove and replug RJ45 connection comes back ...Any ideas ?
06:20 < Konichiwa> julian-g, http://www.linuxintro.org/wiki/BaBE_-_Bash_By_Examples
06:21 < julian-g> Konichiwa: looks good, thanks
06:26 < SlidingHorn> If I build a package from source, can I simply delete the source directory from which it was built afterward?
06:26 < jim> john_rambo, so the sequence is... you reboot, eth fails, you pull the cable, it comes back?
06:26 < Konichiwa> julian-g, if you follow through the tutorial, create a new user to chroot jail so you don't destroy (much of) anything
06:26 < jim> pull and replace that is
06:26 < iopq> lshw -c has both monitors
06:26 < [R]> SlidingHorn: if you dont want it anymore, of course
06:27 < SlidingHorn> [R]: If I don't want the source, or the package?
06:27 < [R]> the source...
06:27 < SlidingHorn> [R]: just checking :)  Thanks
06:27 < julian-g> Konichiwa: got it. It's looking really good
06:28 < john_rambo> jim: Yes thats what is happening
06:29 < jim> john_rambo, ok, I have some more questions...
06:29 < john_rambo> jim: Okay
06:29 < jim> when you reboot, the link light goes out?
06:30 < john_rambo> jim: Yes
06:30 < jim> ok, after you reboot, when's the next time the link lite comes on?
06:31 < john_rambo> jim: If I unplug and replug the light comes back not otherwise
06:31 < xochilpili> hi all
06:31 < xochilpili> how can i connect to a serial interface via tcp ?
06:32 < xochilpili> i have this odb2 connector via wifi and doing some telnet i have access but response is not complete
06:32 < jim> ok, so even the link light goes off... and is this on both sides? (what do you have the other side of the eth cable in?)
06:33 < john_rambo> jim: Other side of the cable is connected to ISP's switch (No cable modem) ...Direct ethernet connection
06:34 < Konichiwa> john_rambo, you using a Dell?
06:34 < john_rambo> Konichiwa: No ...Self assembled PC
06:34 < jim> john_rambo, so, this is unusual... normally, an eth connection will turn the link light on as soon as the circuitry notices the cable is connected on both sides...
06:34 < jim> this makes me curious about what speed of eth you have?
06:35 < [R]> xochilpili: socat
06:35 < Konichiwa> john_rambo, ahhh...I've had the same problem on two old Dells...read up about faulty integrated chips
06:36 < john_rambo> Rebooting again to see what happens
06:37 < jim> do you have any idea what kind of switch the ISP has that you're connecting to?
06:38 < xochilpili> [R], socat supports tcp ?
06:38 < jim> when you have a chance, could you do: lspci -nn | grep -i net
06:44 < [R]> xochilpili: why would i say it otherwise?
06:45 < nginben> Hey, does anybody know a good chatroom for discussing broken usb devices and partitions?
06:45 < uplime> if it only accepted udp that wouldn't be a very good network tool
06:45 < [R]> your mom is a network tool
06:46 < uplime> oh :c
06:46 < jim> nginben, there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in looking for channels on the Freenode irc net. To start, /msg alis help, and, maybe ##hardware?
06:46 < uplime> i had no idea
06:46 < nginben> jim, thanks, I will try this
06:46 < jim> welcome
06:59 < iopq> i poked around in the bios but it didn't solve my second monitor problem
07:07 < Celmor> anyone know how I can get a pre-built linux livecd (any distro) with a specific linux kernel version)? need to test a kernel module with linux 4.11.x or earlier
07:07 < julian-g> Konichowa: Looking very good so far... Now. How can one get more creative in bash? I often see complex shell operations that I can read just fine. But at the moment of action I find myself staring at the screen with a lack of imagination
07:12 < jim> Celmor, would you have to build that module for the kernel you get?
07:13 < Celmor> yeah
07:14 < jim> I guess you could ask on #debian if they still have one
07:14 < [R]> Celmor: just look at the veresions in dists, and find a version that uses that, and use that
07:15 < Celmor> dists?
07:15 < jim> well some may or may not still store the live cd  for that version
07:15 < [R]> distros...
07:15 < jim> distributions
07:15 < Celmor> which ones though?
07:16 < [R]> distrowatch has a list of major dists
07:16 < Celmor> I don't need a list of distros, was looking for a distro which might still has a livecd for older kernel versions
07:17 < [R]> i todl you what to do
07:17 < neoncortex> julian-g: that's a question that every inventor wants awnser, some people do meditation, others drugs, others music ..
07:17 < jim> we have a todlr!
07:19 < iopq> It's been more than an hour and I still can't find a solution for my second monitor FML
07:19 < Celmor> [R], distrowatch has a list of distributions with a specific kernel version?
07:19 < Sveta> iopq, what is the problem?
07:19 < [R]> Celmor: i said 2 things...
07:19 < iopq> Sveta, integrated monitor not detected by Ubuntu, but when I reload the monitor clearly works (it shows a logo when turning off)
07:20 < iopq> I use an AMD gpu on my main monitor and this worked before I switched to another GPU
07:20 < Sveta> iopq, what is it attached with?
07:20 < iopq> both are attached with DVI
07:20 < Sveta> iopq, this is a desktop or a laptop?
07:20 < Sveta> i assume desktop
07:20 < iopq> desktop
07:21 < iopq> xrandr doesn't see it, lshw does
07:21 < Sveta> iopq, what graphics driver are you using?
07:22 < iopq> open source AMD, and the intel integrated graphics
07:23 < swift110> hey all
07:23 < iopq> as far as I know, I tried installing the proprietary, it didn't boot so I reverted it
07:23 < jim> hi
07:24 < Celmor> [R], thanks, took me a while to understand what you meant
07:25 < julian-g> neoncortex: I guess I should have chosen that lego game for christmas back when I was a child
07:27 < neoncortex> julian-g: search for microdosing xD
07:34 < iopq_> I'm back :3
07:34 < julian-g> neoncortex: my brain is probably fried already by years of toying with it
07:37 < neoncortex> julian-g: just think: wich problems do you want to solve? wich tool do you want that are not available? once you awnser it, you know what to do
07:39 < neoncortex> with shell scripts,there is people that figured out how to display images in the shell, for example, i found it cool, https://github.com/hackerb9/lsix
07:40 < stevendale> Hi neoncortex :D
07:40 < neoncortex> it's not very useful to see thumbnails in shell, but you can extrapolate, you can display pdf's with that
07:40 < neoncortex> stevendale: hi =D
07:42 < neoncortex> xterm pdf reader .. o.O
07:42 < julian-g> I want to end poverty, hunger and over polulation, but I know that I can't do that with bash. So I can confirm myself with doing functions that do things just for my amusement. Because I don't have too many other.uses
07:42 < newpy> I did `sudo apt install software-properties-common python-software-properties` in ubuntu for windows (WSL)
07:43 < newpy> and got a message: "Package python-software-properties is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source"
07:43 < neoncortex> consider it your training, it's like any other thing, you start making toys
07:43 < newpy> "However the following packages replace it: software-properties-common"
07:43 < Starcraftmazter> hey
07:44 < Starcraftmazter> im using a new external monitor for my laptop, which is 2560x1600 but its using 1280x800, and i cant seem to get it to change using xorg
07:44 < julian-g> neoncortex: ok. I'll try to put it to practice
07:44 < Starcraftmazter> using oss nouveou dirver
07:45 < Starcraftmazter> xorg.conf -> https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/-vvXwOPk2Sy7y7N-E0mhDg
07:45 < neoncortex> julian-g: great
07:45 < Starcraftmazter> seems to be mostly being ignored by Xorg, but i dont know how to say this config is for this monitor, etc - like how does it know which is monitor0, monitor1, etc
07:46 < Sveta> iopq_, that leaves me a bit confused in regards to whether it's intel's fault or open source amd fault, and how come you are using both at the same time
07:46 < iopq_> Sveta, my GPU only has one DVI port
07:46 < iopq_> so to use a second monitor I need to use the integrated
07:46 < julian-g> neoncortex: we'll see buddy, have a good one
07:47 < Sveta> iopq_, so what does the offending monitor sit on, intel or amd?
07:47 < iopq_> intel, since my settings put the main monitor on pcie
07:47 < nothos> Aaaand finally fixed my irc bouncer :D
07:48 < stevendale> Debian is nicer to use than Arch, but harder than Ubuntu
07:49 < stevendale> Debian also supports more architectures & has lower hardware requirements than Arch, despite Arch taking a more 'minimalistic' approach to everything
07:49 < stevendale> Load of bs
07:49 < nothos> Arch is the only distro I've used where the config files provided with packages are outright broken
07:49 < stevendale> Arch can go die \o/
07:50 < Sitri> To be fair, Arch hasn't had the KISS description since shortly after Judd Vinet left
07:50 < [R]> nothos: arch come prebroken...
07:50 < nothos> Install nginx on centos, start service and it'll work. Try that on arch and nginx flips about the invalid config
07:50 < notmike> Arch is the best distro, except for slackware.
07:50 < stevendale> Debian is more KISS than Arch
07:51 < stevendale> >.>
07:51 < notmike> Sounds like your config is wrong
07:51 < notmike> Wrong ie not good
07:51 < well_laid_lawn> lots of arch hate at the moment
07:51 < nothos> Only distro arch is better than is manjaro and that's only because if you're gonna go for awfulness go all in or don't bother :D
07:51 < nothos> well_laid_lawn Welcome to ##linux :D
07:52 < notmike> Antergos or gtfo
07:52 < nai> nothos: never had problems with nginx on arch ootb
07:52 < stevendale> Debian supports the most hardware architectures out of any GNU/Linux distro
07:52 < notmike> Right, nginx works fine on every arch I've ever seen as long as the config is not invalid
07:52 < [R]> stevendale: OH SO USEFUL!
07:53 < neoncortex> I don't have paience anyore with distros that require hight maintanance, so I go Debian
07:53 < neoncortex> #patience
07:53 < stevendale> Arch dropped i686/x86 support :C Debian still works on it with flying colors :D
07:53 < notmike> Debian is 6mo to a year in the past wrt packages. It's 20 years behind every other Linux based distro in everything else.
07:53 < [R]> well x86 is a dead architecture...
07:54 < notmike> Not in Serbia
07:54 < Sitri> It's not even great on embedded
07:54 < HelloFriend> can someone help me understand what this is doing? ~slim/../bill/dir1/./../file1 i know that ~ takes you home but what does the . and .. mean. I mean i know what they mean on there own but in this context
07:54 < stevendale> I'm using one x86 laptop right now [R]
07:54 < nothos> neoncortex Same logic but for centos
07:54 < Sitri> Arm took that crown
07:54 < stevendale> Clearly not dead :)
07:54 < [R]> stevendale: and how does that negate what i said?
07:54 < nothos> Though that's mainly down to preferring the RH way of configging stuff/yum
07:54 < neoncortex> nothos: I think it applies, yes
07:54 < stevendale> [R] Something is not dead till *nobody* uses it
07:55 < jim> [R], don't beat him up please
07:55 < liveuser1> with flying colors?
07:55 < liveuser1> does that mean it doesnt compute binary only gui splash
07:55 < nothos> stevendale There's been plenty of archs removed from the kernel that were still used :P
07:55 < nothos> Safe to say those are dead :D
07:55 < liveuser1> does that explain why disk imaging hung
07:55 < nothos> At least from a linux PoV
07:55 < aib> what do people use to build container images? they can't all be using Dockerfiles, right? There must be some sensible alternatives out there; at least one allowing a succession of shell commands without having to put && in between all of them
07:56 < liveuser1> what do you mean by flying colors stevendale
07:56 < HelloFriend> if i do cd ~/../bill/dir1 it doent take me to user/bill/dir1 ?
07:56 < stevendale> liveuser1: Fast
07:56 < nothos> aib Basically make your docker file and then use docker build
07:57 < liveuser1> where is sebastian
07:57 < [R]> HelloFriend: what is 'user/bill/dir1'
07:57 < HelloFriend> username*
07:57 < aib> but Dockerfiles are... unsuitable. The one thing they seem to do more than anything is run successive shell commands and the syntax doesn't support that. Enter "&& \" at the end of most of the lines.
07:57 < HelloFriend> users home in other words
07:57 < liveuser1> see if you can call in some soldiers I have a large list of unknown wifi networks
07:58 < Sitri> Should take you to /home/bill/dir1 assuming $HOME is /home/username/
07:59 < liveuser1> did that canadian hive clucker leave jml2
07:59 < HelloFriend> why the ../ isn't it just ~/bill/dir1 ?
07:59 < Sitri> ?
07:59 < liveuser1> cluck clucks the daddy talk and then ignores a serious question
08:00 < neoncortex> HelloFriend: because you are going back one dir relative to ~
08:00 < nothos> aib Maybe habitus will do what you want
08:00 < liveuser1> bunches of "daddys"
08:00 < liveuser1> is that freenode?
08:00 < neoncortex> ../ does this, go back one dir
08:00 < liveuser1> bunches of "daddys"
08:00 < HelloFriend> neoncortex ahh ok that explains a lot
08:01 < HelloFriend> neoncortex so then ./../file1.txt would take me to current dir, then go back one?
08:02 < HelloFriend> back one* go to parent
08:02 < neoncortex> yes, you are going back one dir in relation to the current one (./)
08:02 < liveuser1> is there anybody capable of conversation?
08:02 < HelloFriend> neoncortex that confused me so much, thanks mate
08:02 < neoncortex> no problem
08:02 < aib> nothos: it seems to be just another wrapper over the idiocy that is Docker :/ I was kinda hoping rkt or maybe the OCI would have alternatives
08:03 < jim> liveuser1, are you?
08:03 < nothos> I don't think you'll find much that isn't aib
08:03 < liveuser1> jim seems with myself only lately
08:04 < nothos> liveuser1 No, that's why I'm on IRC :D
08:04 < nothos> people are scary
08:04 < liveuser1> where is kevin mitnick
08:04 < jim> like Drew Carey
08:04 < neoncortex> O.O
08:05 < liveuser1> obfuscate real happenings and call them stories
08:06 < jim> you know, if you turned that AI off and actually engaged in conversation, maybe people would talk more
08:06 < sauvin> liveuser1, what's the difference between peanut butter and bowling balls made from dark matter?
08:06 < newpy> I want a clean install, I've just started Windows Subsystem for Linux, should I run sudo apt-get update right off the bat?
08:06 < nothos> sauvin I think the latter would go less well in reese's cup
08:06 < newpy> or are there some repositories I should add first?
08:07 < neoncortex> There is a movie of a mathmatician who live in a world of illusion, in their world there is a man (spy) and a girl, those spy operates in the mathmatician garage .. someone remember the name of the movie?
08:07 < newpy> all I will be using is ipython
08:07 < newpy> afaik
08:07 < nothos> newpy It'd be apt-get upgrade technically
08:07 < TheNH813> Can someone help me figure out why I can't ssh to my external IP? The port is open (I checked with several port scanning tools) and forwarded to my PC's hostname in router settings.
08:07 < jim> newpy, do you have the version of ipython you want to use?
08:08 < newpy> jim, not yet, fresh install
08:08 < Sitri> TheNH813: You have to route the packets on the gateway specifically to enable that.
08:08 < nothos> But you shouldn't need to, I think microsoft updates handles all that?
08:08 < HelloFriend> is it possible to run directx games on linux atm?
08:08 < iopq_> with wine
08:09 < HelloFriend> supports new directx 11 games?
08:09 < TheNH813> Sitri: I have it set to forward the port I chose already.
08:09 < Sitri> TheNH813: That's not what I meant
08:09 < TheNH813> Sitri: What do I need to check then?
08:10 < liveuser1> jim are you like most of freenode where you start with supporting something and then some botscript interjects and you wanderoff
08:10 < nothos> HelloFriend https://appdb.winehq.org/ Best just to check the exact game you want to try
08:10 < Sitri> TheNH813: There's more steps beyond that to enable it.  If you're using something other than an actual OS as your gateway you're not going to have the ability to support that.
08:11 < newpy> liveuser1, was that in reference to me? :P
08:12 < liveuser1> newpy: is that your exploit talent, blocking public communications by interjecting
08:12 < sauvin> liveuser1, I notice you don't answer my question.
08:13 < liveuser1> sauvin: is "that" there are multiple possible references
08:13 < liveuser1> verbosity is required
08:13 < sauvin> It *was* verbose. Take a stab at it.
08:13 < liveuser1> that is the other exploit which makes language useless
08:15 < stevendale> OwO
08:15 < stevendale> You blocked yaaic, an amazing Android IRC client sauvin
08:15 < stevendale> Jk, Atomic is better :P And Simple IRC on F-Droid is better yet again
08:32 < sauvin> Jeebus H, the KDE that comes with Kubuntu 18.04 is MESSED UP, ain't it?
08:33 < nothos> sauvin s/that comes with Kubuntu 18.04//
08:33 < nothos> ;)
08:33 < sauvin> Looks like I gonna hafta let it cook for a while before trying it for real.
08:34 < nothos> I'm just gonna say that xubuntu 18.04 has been rock solid
08:34 < nothos> The new pulse audio panel it ships as default is some good stuff indeed
08:34 < jim> what's going on with the kde in kubuntu?
08:35 < sauvin> I can't make the goddamn virtual desktops behave in the task bar pane.
08:36 < sauvin> Panel. Whatever.
08:38 < im0nde> Hello, I'm looking for a "Laptop without keyboard" that is well supported by linux. I use a small mechanical keyboard all the time, so the laptops keyboard is just not important. Is there a non-arm tablet that has all drivers working on linux and enough power to work with it (mostly programming, most demanding thing would be to run a VM)
08:41 < nothos> im0nde So you basically want an intel based tablet with good linux support oob?
08:41 < im0nde> nothos: yes
08:42 < im0nde> nothos: preferably >13"
08:42 < im0nde> (or at least >12")
08:42 < nothos> im0nde Tricky one, I know a lot of the cheaper tablets have really weird custom setups that linux totally doesn't like
08:43 < TheNH813> What brand and model?
08:43 < im0nde> yeah, all i could find was either arm or sketchy
08:43 < nothos> im0nde If I recall the surface tablets have pretty good linux support
08:44 < TheNH813> Oh sorry. I read that wrong. I thought you said you found a tablet with god linux support.
08:44 < TheNH813> *good
08:44 < nothos> Surface Pro 3 seems to strike the best sweet spot
08:44 < nothos> https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/comments/6eau79/current_state_of_surfaces/ im0nde
08:44 < im0nde> nothos: That looks interesting indeed.
08:44 < nothos> Seems surface pro 3 is the newest where everything works
08:45 < nothos> Other than bluetooth LE and promiscuous wifi
08:45 < nothos> Plus get the i7 model and it'll have plenty of oomph for VMs :)
08:46 < nothos> I'm currently waiting on those new ARM windows laptops
08:46 < nothos> The ARM chromebooks running linux were a good start
08:47 < nothos> But I really can't wait to see how these new "proper" laptops coupled with linux will be
08:47 < nothos> <3 RISC
08:51 < stevendale> Hey ^w^
08:51 < stevendale> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Debian 9.4 • CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.73GHz (1.33GHz) • Memory: Physical: 477.8 MiB Total (302.6 MiB Free) Swap: 490.2 MiB Total (435.4 MiB Free) • Storage: 5.0 GB / 57.8 GB (52.8 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller @ Intel Corporation Mobile 915GM/PM/GMS/910GML Express Processor to DRAM Controller •
08:51 < stevendale> Uptime: 9m 38s
08:51 < stevendale> I opted for LXDE and it's working nicely
08:52 < stevendale> I liked to know what's being installed, hence why a Debian net installation rather than a pre-built install such as Lubuntu
08:53 < pingfloyd> sounds good
08:54 < Evidlo> anyone know any better minimal image viewers than feh or sxiv?
08:55 < nai> define better
08:55 < stevendale> Evidlo, I don't, but I use GPicview, because it's the lightest one I know of that doesn't have to be launched from CLI, and it's chosen by task-lxde-desktop and Lubuntu (neither of which I installed though)
08:56 < stevendale> I don't know why Lubuntu uses file-roller though, that's from GNOME and it's bloated
08:56 < nai> stevendale: feh and sxiv have .desktop entries if that's what you're talking about
08:56 < stevendale> Debian's use of Xarchiver is much more appropriate :(
08:57 < stevendale> Lubuntu used to use Chromium as the default browser, but they switched to Firefox
08:57 < maxxe> Evidlo, qiv
08:57 < Evidlo> I prefer launching from command line actually
08:57 < maxxe> yeah, qiv
08:58 < sauvin> nver_, you'll need to register with nickserv and identify (log in) in order to speak here.
08:59 < jim> I think he did, under that nick... he's here with his phone too
09:00 < jim> maybe he should group it
09:00 < nothos> Evidlo Ristretto? Technically from xfce
09:00 < nothos> But shouldn't have any major dependencies if any, other than libxfceui
09:01 < Nver__> sauvin: Done!
09:02 < maxxe> Evidlo, for linux framebuffer/console try fbi or zgv
09:02 < Evidlo> maxxe: qiv doesn't like not being fullscreen very much
09:02 < maxxe> Evidlo, press 'f' and it scale I think
09:03 < nai> Evidlo: what's wrong with feh?
09:04 < sauvin> Nver__, excellent!
09:06 < Evidlo> nai: feh is the best option I know right now, but it doesn't support gifs and image info is behind a right-click menu
09:07 < Evidlo> qiv seems ok so far, but I dont like how it has to be fullscreen to work properly
09:08 < maxxe> Evidlo, but what's your demands? you want a see an image? =D
09:08 < nai> pretty sure you can display info with a key binding
09:08 < newpy> I'm trying to `sudo add-apt-repository ppa:pypa/ppa` and it keeps failing to add key
09:08 < nai> one of the features of feh i like is that you can press "w" to make the window fit the image
09:09 < newpy> on ubuntu 16.04.4 xenial
09:12 < maxxe> Evidlo, sounds pretty strange that you just want to view an image and no viewers are ok :)
09:13 < newpy> does anyone know why I can't add ppa:pypa/ppa?
09:13 < sauvin> What error does it give?
09:14 < newpy> sauvin, the last one is "Failed to add key"
09:14 < newpy> sauvin, I can give more details in a sec, currently installing something and can't scroll up
09:14 < Xeha> turn off scroll on output ;)
09:14 < sauvin> Heard that. I tried something similar last night and the goofy thing hurled.
09:15 < newpy> Xeha, I should do that :)
09:15 < janco> https://system76.com/ what a joke
09:15 < Evidlo> maxxe: I found pqiv and it seems nice
09:18 < newpy> sauvin, Xeha, the error seems to be "gpgkeys: key 99624F96... can't be retrieved; gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found; gpg: Total number processed: 0; gpg: keyserver communications error: keyserver helper general error; gpg: keyserver communications error: unknown pubkey algorithm; gpg: keyserver receive failed: unknown pubkey algorithm; Failed to add key"
09:19 < newpy> with ; being \n
09:20 < newpy> hmm, I'll try this: https://askubuntu.com/questions/393028/gpgkeys-cant-be-retrieved?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa
09:22 < newpy> that may have worked
09:23 < newpy> hmm
09:24 < newpy> "E: The repository 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/pypa/ppa/ubuntu xenial Release' does not have a Release file.
09:24 < newpy> N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default.
09:24 < newpy> N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration details
09:24 < sauvin> Welcome to the world of PPA. I've had "variable" success with it and have since tended to shy away from it.
09:27 < newpy> sauvin, yea I give up, just used `pip install --user pipenv`
09:27 < newpy> I need to learn linux from the ground up I think
09:27 < newpy> no idea what's happening under the hood
09:29 < nothos> newpy Depends bu what you mean from the ground up really
09:29 < janco> linux != pip
09:29 < nothos> Like, you *could* learn the ins and outs of the kernel and its APIs but that will do almost nothing for your day to day usage experience
09:30 < janco> just using it for a long time will do the most expierence
09:30 < sauvin> The swimming pool that is Linux, if you just look at the desktop, looks kinda shallow. If you dive into a terminal, you'll find it's a bit deeper than you thought. The truth is even scarier than you know.
09:31 < newpy> nothos, well what would you recommend?
09:31 < nothos> newpy Like I said, it depends
09:31 < nothos> But janco is right, just work with linux
09:31 < newpy> nothos, I'd like to know the ins and outs of packages and such
09:31 < nothos> Do stuff, come up with projects
09:31 < newpy> ic
09:32 < nothos> newpy Do you mean packages as in how to work with apt/yum (package managers/installers/etc.) or?
09:32 < newpy> yes how apt works
09:32 < nothos> newpy In that case I'd suggest:
09:32 < nothos> Spin up a vm with like digital ocean or something, and try setting up LAMP
09:32 < janco> I used first Linux Mint for a couple of months, until I hated it. Figured out I could install different DM etc. and learn stuff about it
09:33 < nothos> It'll give you good real world experience of using apt, editing stuff, where stuff is in linux, etc.
09:33 < janco> etc. etc.
09:33 < janco> And now i've used arch for 2 years
09:33 < nothos> newpy One thing I will say: If anyone suggests using arch/gentoo/linux from scratch to 'learn linux', they're wrong :D
09:33 < janco> pretty satisfied :)
09:33 < janco> haha
09:34 < nothos> All they'll teach you do is weird esoteric stuff that no one *needs* to do anymore
09:34 < janco> nothos: agree
09:34 < janco> nothos: have to say it was pretty fun to do
09:34 < nothos> janco Oh, don't get me wrong, it can be fun if that's what you're into
09:34 < janco> nothos: yeah
09:34 < nothos> But as a learning exercise it's pointless
09:34 < janco> yeah exactly
09:35 < nothos> In part because for most folks it'll be ctrl+c, ctrl+v from the wiki
09:35 < janco> You know. I've used linux 3 years before I did study technical computer science
09:36 < janco> at that expierence was so usefull
09:36 < janco> I mean. Everyone was struggling setting a raspberry pi up for example
09:36 < janco> They didn't even know what ssh was
09:44 < leibniz> np
09:51 < LissajousPattern> hi
09:52 < LissajousPattern> man this is cool I finally have my network setup finished
09:52 < LissajousPattern> I think
09:54 < stevendale> Heya
09:54 < LissajousPattern> hiya
09:54 < stevendale> Not even 6:00 PM yet and I'm getting sleepy
09:55 < stevendale> Are the Windows Pagefile and Linux swapfile/swap partition build based around the same ideals? (From my knowledge - to prevent system crashes from running out of RAM on low memory systems, and to put 'cached' memory aside when it isn't being used anymore)
09:57 < Triffid_Hunter> stevendale: similar ideas, yes, but windows chokes way harder if you remove it I'm told
09:58 < Triffid_Hunter> stevendale: if it's large enough, it can also be used for hibernate
09:59 < stevendale> Windows has a dedicated hibernation file IIRC, as well as the pagefile... so does Linux not have a dedicated hibernation file - and just uses the swap partition?
10:00 < Triffid_Hunter> stevendale: last time I checked, yeah.
10:01 < stevendale> What's the difference between having a /dev/sdX compared to a /dev/hdX
10:01 < Triffid_Hunter> stevendale: hdx is IDE, sdx is scsi/sata. there's also nvme for NVMEs and vdx for virtual disks
10:01 < Triffid_Hunter> I suppose there's fdx for floppies too, in the rare case that you have one
10:03 < stevendale> And srX for disk/disc drives, right Triffid_Hunter?
10:04 < Triffid_Hunter> stevendale: think so, haven't seen one of those in a while though
10:08 < peetaur2> stevendale: FYI if you have no scsi nor sata, and you plug in a usb stick, it will probably name it hdX ...but if you have another scsi or sata device, then it names it sdX :)
10:10 < peetaur2> you instead of virtio (vdX), you should probably use virtio-scsi which names them like sdX ... it supports TRIM, online resize and things that virtio doesn't
10:12 < mawk> to make my tun device generate an icmp host unreachable message, I need to create the message myself ? or there is a magical way to do it ?
10:16 < peetaur2> mawk: dunno how to answer but here's some info to possibly help... see man iptables-extensions... search for "--reject-with type"
10:27 < jim> Nver__, ahh, you're still here
10:31 < Triffid_Hunter> peetaur2: uhh pretty sure usb sticks always show up as scsi devices as far as the kernel is concerned
10:31 < jim> Nver__, so, here are some activities...
10:31 < jim>  - learn your shell (all the little details)
10:32 < jim>    (could be a little boring, so don't spend too much time)
10:33 < jim>  - pick a scripting language that's not a shell... maybe one of these: python, perl, lua, go (there are -lots- more, so for now just pick one)
10:35 < jim>  - look for all the different server programs you can get for linux, see what they "serve"
10:35 < BCMM> a lot of things are treated as SCSI variants by the kernel, included SATA disks
10:35 < jim> Nver__, that's enough for now
10:36 < zChris__> Hello, i have added https://launchpad.net/%7Eondrej/+archive/ubuntu/php/+index?batch=75&memo=225&start=225 to my PPA, but how do i tell apt to install PHP from that repository and not the original one?
10:37 < c-c> Anyone elses linux gotten super slow lately?
10:38 < Triffid_Hunter> nope, it doesn't do that.. this ain't windows :P
10:38 < c-c> I think it started last week. Sometimes takes +5 seconds for click to register.
10:39 < Triffid_Hunter> c-c: sounds like you're running something that uses more memory than you have and it's swapping
10:39 < BCMM> c-c: do you get a lot of hard disk activity when this is happening?
10:39 < c-c> I've been trying to figure out whats causing it. Mostly it looks like browsers are 200-300 (3-4x) slower than before, and hog tons of CPU for tasks that used to run on one core just fine.
10:39 < BCMM> (indicated either by clicking/whirring or by the disk access light)
10:39 < c-c> BCMM Triffid_Hunter no, and theres about 4 GB free memory
10:39 < c-c> (SSD btw)
10:40 < Triffid_Hunter> c-c: yeah browsers are pretty ridiculous these days.. I've capped mine at FF56 for now
10:40 < BCMM> c-c: any chance of a hardware issue with the CPU? e.g. failed fan forcing constant thermal throttling?
10:40 < c-c> Triffid_Hunter: ok that just sounds like vague conjecture
10:41 < c-c> BCMM: hm, didn't think of that
10:41 < BCMM> c-c: you can use `sensors` from the lm_sensor package to check that
10:41 < Triffid_Hunter> heh my laptop needs cleaning a couple of times per year or peak load temp goes from 70°C to 105°C and then it starts complaining
10:42 < c-c> the fan is working fine...
10:42 < BCMM> c-c: how is cpu temperature, though?
10:42 < c-c> ..I think this slowness is caused by libraries
10:42 < BCMM> there are other things that can go wrong, like dust in the heatsink vanes or poor thermal contact between ihs and heatsink
10:43 < c-c> hm, uptime is 34 days. Maybe I should restart?
10:43 < BCMM> Triffid_Hunter: worse than that, it seems like most laptop manufacturers are stupid about cooling to the point that it's bad even in ideal circumstances
10:44 < BCMM> Triffid_Hunter: they want moar megahertz on the box so they give you a CPU that you can't max out for more than a few second at a time
10:44 < Triffid_Hunter> BCMM: yeah I've seen plenty of those, never had one though.. I would return such a monstrosity under hardware fault if it couldn't sustain 100%
10:44 < c-c> Anyway, I was more or less asking if *other* people have experienced "slowdown" with their systems in the last week or two.. I guess its something in my system then.
10:45 < BCMM> c-c: Linux is basically to heterogeneous for that line of questioning to be useful
10:45 < BCMM> c-c: if it's a problem with kernel config, or a new version of a library, or really anything like that, people will get it at different times or even not get it at all, depending on decisions made by distributions
10:46 < BCMM> it *might* be worth asking your distro's channel, i suppose
10:52 < stevenm> hey I'm trying to convert an unknown (but reversible) hashed bit of data... back into its unhashed form... even though I already know the answer, but I'm curious how it has been hashed
10:52 < stevenm> so I can straight away tell it is base64 - but it just gives me a bunch of binary (i think) back when ran through base64 -d
10:52 < stevenm> DazokAB6yjfVMwxy0kbHSbRA==   should be the word   'tensor'
10:53 < peetaur2> Triffid_Hunter: well I've seen it in the early days before SATA was commonplace, and I tested it after... maybe it was also a machine without even a scsi or sata controller...not sure what other conditions are required.
10:54 < couven92> Have just installed an Ubuntu Server 18.04 LTS, how do I enable Numpad by default?
10:54 < c-c> couven92: configure correct keyboard (105 key?)
10:55 < c-c> stevenm: how do you know?
10:55 < couven92> c-c, no, keyboard it works just, but Ubuntu starts with numpad disabled, so I have to press NumLock to enable it :(
10:55 < BCMM> couven92: the term you're looking for is "enable numlock"
10:56 < stevenm> c-c, because the file is made by a little utility (which I use, so I put the information in myself) which saves database connection details
10:56 < couven92> thx
10:56 < bazhang> couven92, is this vbox or vmware
10:56 < stevenm> c-c, but I'd like another app I'm making to be able to read the same file - if I can figure out how it saves it
10:56 < couven92> Hyper-V (yeah, I'm sorry)
10:56 < BCMM> couven92: if you say the entire numpad is disabled, people will think you;re pgup and pgdn are not working due to some sort of keyboard layout misconfiguration
10:56 < c-c> stevenm: ok so what exactly do you want from us?
10:57 < stevenm> tips, thoughts, advise... what I could potentially try next
10:57 < c-c> try the same util you used to encode?
10:57 < Triffid_Hunter> couven92: that's a bios option on every system I've ever touched, not a linux thing
10:58 < stevenm> c-c, it's an antiquated .net windows app just for saving the connection details to file - proprietary too
10:58 < stevenm> c-c, their main app is I guess what reads the file to then connect to the database... also .net, antiquated and proprietary
10:58 < stevenm> so i've got no idea how it decodes it
10:59 < c-c> stevenm: so your question is: "I have base64 encoded file that won't decode with $ base64 -d, [insert error/output from base64 here]"
10:59 < Triffid_Hunter> stevenm: well the output is also 3x the size of your input string so either they're padding it or tripling it
10:59 < c-c> stevenm: good luck
10:59 < BCMM> Triffid_Hunter: it can overridden by the OS
10:59 < Triffid_Hunter> BCMM: of course, but is that something that happens by default in ubuntu?
10:59 < BCMM> i don't think so
11:00 < stevenm> c-c, Triffid_Hunter, well this file is actually xml with about 9 values saved in it... all base64 encoded and all the same length
11:00 < stevenm> but obviously once decoded their all going to be different lengths
11:00 < Triffid_Hunter> stevenm: why?
11:00 < stevenm> because there is one for database name, one for username, one for password, one for database type... and I know what they actually are before they got encoded
11:01 < Triffid_Hunter> stevenm: well you're gonna have to either reverse engineer the program or brute force the algorithm by getting the program to save a zillion things
11:01 < BCMM> Triffid_Hunter: KDE System Settings has a GUI option to turn on numlock when Plasma starts; DEs without such an option can use a login script with numlockx
11:01 < BCMM> couven92: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NumLock
11:01 < c-c> people not being able to help you is usually caused by the fact that you do not provide enough details, so do that, or go
11:01 < stevenm> c-c, if that's directed at me... then let me know what I'm leaving out, i'm open.
11:02 < stevenm> Triffid_Hunter, well say I do get the app to save *lots* and *lots* of different files... all with strings that I know the answers to... what would I pass all that data to... which could then figure it all out?  (brute force)
11:03 < Triffid_Hunter> stevenm: with enough data you'd basically end up building a rainbow table
11:03 < stevenm> ok...
11:03 < LissajousPattern> Triffid_Hunter, hey
11:06 < stevenm> Triffid_Hunter, something like this then? http://project-rainbowcrack.com/
11:06 < stevenm> but I guess I'd need to manually generate lots and lots of hashed strings ... and presumably pass those hashes to the program along with what those hashes actually contain?
11:06 < stevenm> then eventually it gives back a formula?
11:08 < LissajousPattern> 4g lte mesh node complete
11:10 < stevendale> Hi c-c
11:10 < stevendale> That's probably the meltdown/spectre patches
11:10 < stevendale> 40% performance hit apparently
11:11 < stevendale> It happened on Windows too
11:11 < stevendale> Not sure about Mac OS
11:11 < stevendale> Probably did tho
11:12 < stevendale> Vista and below didn't get patched, anything except the very latest Mac OS probably didn't get patched, and just about every Linux dating back to Debian Wheezy got a patch
11:13 < stevendale> (2013 Linuxes and above)
11:14 < stevendale> I suspect the enterprise customers of Ubuntu 12.04 got patches using the repo that costs money
11:14 < stevendale> But I wouldn't know
11:18 < djph> stevendale: hell, 3.2 kernel still got a patch
11:21 < stevendale> I wonder if AmaigaOS got a patch
11:22 < cloudbud> How can Iexecute a cron every hour from 8 AM to 10 PM ? what will be the cron expression
11:26 < zethson> hi everyone
11:27 < zethson> running into the following issue: trying to always mount a server to my ubuntu distribution for every user on boot
11:27 < zethson> so I edited /etc/fstab
11:27 < zethson> ggi-0901.rue23.uni-tuebingen.de/gentausch /media/test cifs credentials=/home/heumos/.credentials._palaeo_fstab,uid=1000,gid=100 0 0,user
11:28 < zethson> however I get the error /media/test cannot be found in /etc/fstab
11:28 < zethson> although this folder exists 100%
11:28  * collins requests a break
11:28 < zethson> anyone got any idea?
11:29 < collins> zethson: does /media/test exist?
11:29 < zethson> yes it does
11:29 < collins> give me a sec
11:29 < zethson> majestix@ggi-0927:~$ ls /media heumos  samba  test  test_2  welte
11:29 < Triffid_Hunter> stevenm: nah it'll give you a LUT. if you want a formula you'll have to play with a bunch of stuff until something fits
11:29 < zethson> -> ls /media returns heumos samba test test_2 welte
11:30 < Triffid_Hunter> cloudbud: 0 8-22 * * * command?
11:30 < collins> zethson: where does this text come from? ggi-0901.rue23.uni-tuebingen.de/gentausch /media/test cifs credentials=/home/heumos/.credentials._palaeo_fstab,uid=1000,gid=100 0 0,user
11:31 < zethson> it s in /etc/fstab
11:31 < Triffid_Hunter> zethson: shouldn't it be //server/mount ?
11:31 < zethson> i had to remove the //
11:31 < zethson> in IRC
11:31 < zethson> else it wouldn t paste it in ;)
11:31 < zethson> it s //ggi-blabla
11:31 < Triffid_Hunter> zethson: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently says you need it
11:32 < zethson> yeah
11:32 < zethson> and i ve got it
11:32 < Triffid_Hunter> zethson: for IRC you can use /say //blah
11:32 < zethson> i see
11:32 < zethson> i only removed it for this paste
11:32 < zethson> so it s 100% added in my /etc/fstab
11:32 < Triffid_Hunter> zethson: furthermore, /media is usually used by automounter, use /mnt/blah for things in ftab
11:32 < zethson> samba doc says otherwise
11:33 < zethson> they suggest use /mnt for things that you mount once and /media for things that you want to automatically mount
11:33 < zethson> i want to mount this on every boot
11:34 < collins> I'm bad at fstab, but the very last part looks a bit suspicious 0,user
11:35 < zethson> if I don t add user then it complains about only root being allowed to mount things
11:35 < Triffid_Hunter> zethson: auto mount is for random arbitrary disks that apperar and disappear, like usb disks and stuff
11:36 < Triffid_Hunter> zethson: shouldn't be after dump/pass though, should be //service/mount /mnt/mountpoint cifs credentials=blah,..,user 0 0
11:36 < collins> zethson: user should be with the rest of the options, the comma-separated list you have after the "cifs" option
11:36 < collins> zethson: I believe
11:37 < zethson> ahh
11:37 < zethson> now it says something else
11:37 < zethson> "permission denied"
11:37 < zethson> that s because my .credentials file is locked
11:37 < zethson> i see, thanks, now i have something else to work with
11:37 < Triffid_Hunter> zethson: great, progress! new problem :D
11:38 < zethson> ;)
11:44 < collins> don't hesitate to tell us when you've reached the "error: toaster stuck in the slice of bread" step, that one is real hard to get through
11:46 < TaZeR> anyone use this "productivey booster" called FASD https://github.com/clvv/fasd it looks like it could make the commands even more confusing instead of easier?
11:47 < zethson> got it to work
11:47 < zethson> thank you very much
11:53 < djph> TaZeR: never heard of it, sorry
11:54 < djph> TaZeR: although it honestly just looks like "hey look! I made aliases! I'm popular now, right guys? ... guys?"
12:10 < anomaly2> is rm -rf ~foo and deluser Foo sufficient to delete all traces of a user account?
12:10 < anomaly2> (imanewbie)
12:10 < jhodrien> anomaly2: Why not "userdel -Zr someuser" ?
12:10 < BCMM> TaZeR: it feels a bit Dvoraky
12:11 < jhodrien> Still means there can be files dotted on your system outside of their home directory.
12:11 < BCMM> in that you'd have to put a *lot* of effort in to getting used to using it before you even find out if it's more efficient
12:11 < TaZeR> yea i kind of had the same thoughts about it as you guys, needed to confirm =)
12:12 < TaZeR> its just aliases basically
12:12 < supay> is it a bad idea to create a cron job that restarts mysqld whenever it stops? :P
12:12 < BCMM> tbh, either /some/awkward/path/to/type/ is used so rarely that it's no big deal to type it, or you should make a symlink
12:13 < BCMM> symlinks aren't just for software; they're a simple way to make your own interactive access to a directory faster
12:13 < BCMM> supay: does mysqld stop at a predictable time every day???
12:13 < nothos> supay There's better ways
12:13 < supay> BCMM, i wish! :D
12:13 < c-c> anomaly2: I wonder if f.ex. groups created for the user would be removed...
12:13 < BCMM> supay: so how is cron the applicable tool here?
12:14 < nothos> Like if you're using systemd you can tell it to restart if there's a connectivity timeout and stuff
12:14 < supay> BCMM, it checks every few minutes to see if mysqld has stopped. if so, restarts :)
12:14 < supay> the cron points to a script, which does this checking and restarting btw
12:14 < supay> nothos, ah is that the better way?
12:14 < nothos> supay I'll admit I haven't used it
12:14 < nothos> But it sould do what you want
12:14 < BCMM> supay: i mean, it kind of sounds like mysql shouldn't be stopping, and that that problem ought to be addressed
12:15 < nothos> Though yes, BCMM is right
12:15 < BCMM> making the possibly flawed assumption that you care about your data here
12:15 < nothos> Fix the core issue :D
12:15 < nothos> Must have some level of care
12:15 < nothos> Otherwise it'd be mongo :D
12:15 < BCMM> supay: however, assuming that automatic restarting is the way to go: what is "stopped"? does the process terminate? or does the just hang up and stop responding to queries?
12:15 < BCMM> ^or does it
12:16 < nothos> There's also monit
12:16 < nothos> Which is designed for this
12:16 < BCMM> i can't help feeling that, one way or another, this can be done without polling
12:16 < BCMM> (for a faster reaction and less resources wastage)
12:16 < nothos> And has a lot of flexibility in terms of the checks it can run, can compare against queries lagging, missing pid file, etc.
12:17 < Triffid_Hunter> supay: I have a script like that for xl2tpd which also randomly stops for no apparent reason
12:17 < Triffid_Hunter> supay: but you should definitely fix your core issue with mysqld, that should definitely not randomly stop unless something is horribly wrong with your system
12:18 < supay> BCMM, the process stops. at least 'service mysql status' says "Mysql stopped"
12:18 < supay> Triffid_Hunter, yep. i'll be looking at the logs
12:18 < supay> i'm assuming for now that it's a memory issue
12:18 < python476> hey there
12:18 < supay> since it's on production, i've set it up to keep restarting every time it stops.. but i think that's no good
12:18 < BCMM> supay: what init system are you using?
12:18 < supay> will be observing logs
12:19 < python476> are there noob friendly (ubuntu like or similar) i686 distro not too old ?
12:19 < supay> BCMM, systemd
12:19 < BCMM> supay: restarting services is built-in to systemd
12:19 < python476> for a centrino laptop of xp era that I need to cleen
12:19 < c-c> python476: whats noob friendly? For brainless people who can't be bothered to look into things they are attempting?
12:20 < BCMM> supay: look in to adding a restart= line to the .service file
12:20 < c-c> IMO most distros are very easy to install today
12:20 < python476> c-c: calm down sir
12:20 < BCMM> supay: (intentionally being a bit vague here because i haven't actually tried this myself - read the docs instead of trusting me, please!)
12:20 < python476> im giving it to a charity association
12:20 < python476> they probably have negative computer knowledge and not a lot of time too
12:21 < python476> I just want something usable out of the box
12:21 < c-c> yes, give fish bicycles and expect good things? *faiö*
12:21 < BCMM> supay: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.service.html
12:21 < python476> damn youre annoying
12:21 < python476> anyway, for the record, Mint is still publishing 32bit isos
12:21 < c-c> reality calls, please land
12:22 < python476> bye
12:22 < LissajousPattern> bummer
12:22 < BCMM> python476: no operating system is 100% maintenance-free
12:22 < BCMM> python476: is this being given to an organisation with no linux knowledge at all?
12:23 < BCMM> what's going to happen when the distro EOLs and a new version needs to be installed, for example?
12:23 < supay> BCMM, haha, sure. will do. it's interesting that systemd can handle that on it's own. thanks for teaching me something new today! :)
12:23 < BCMM> np
12:25 < BluesKaj> Hey all
12:26 < c-c> next up: python476 wants to give cars to people who don't know how to drive
12:26 < c-c> 8D
12:27 < BCMM> python476: if there's literally no option for support, this is probably not a good idea. if there's the chance for very occasional support, look in to Debian Stable
12:27 < Sveta> c-c: what is python476?
12:29 < BCMM> Sveta: a user that c-c has taken an irrational level of dislike towards :)
12:29 < BCMM> (as opposed to a far-future version of a programming language)
12:30 < c-c> lets not exaggerate
12:30 < Sveta> BCMM: that was my doubt, thanks for clearing it up
12:31 < BCMM> c-c: frankly, you need to learn how to be right without being a dick about it
12:31 < BCMM> that way, people might actually listen
12:31 < c-c> try not to exaggerate
12:32 < stevendale> Help
12:32 < stevendale> Help pls
12:32 < jhodrien> python476: Does this laptop support PAE?
12:32  * c-c didn't kill anyone, so wasn't being a dick
12:32 < stevendale> when i close my compootah leed it gows to sleep
12:32 < stevendale> help pls
12:33 < luke-jr> c-c: they usually do the opposite
12:33 < LissajousPattern> stevendale, you need a new one
12:33 < stevendale> LissajousPattern xD
12:34 < Xeha> compootahh!
12:34 < LissajousPattern> stevendale, you could always go with windonts
12:34 < stevendale> LissajousPattern: You mean Winblows? :D
12:35 < LissajousPattern> could be
12:35 < LissajousPattern> depends on you
12:35 < stevendale> Windows fanboys probably call Linux 'Linblows', and Linux fanboys call Windows 'Winblows'
12:35 < LissajousPattern> I call all OSes obsolete
12:36 < BluesKaj> LissajousPattern, so what are you doing here ?
12:36 < LissajousPattern> BluesKaj, linux is my favorite obsolete OS and you?
12:37 < LissajousPattern> linux has enabled me to do lots of really cool stuff
12:38 < LissajousPattern> for example I am connected to the web because of linux
12:38 < ananke> ohh so edgy:  LissajousPattern> I call all OSes obsolete
12:38 < LissajousPattern> and believe it or not linux has allowed me to get the most out of windows 10
12:38 < BluesKaj> so you like obsolescence, LissajousPattern  :-)
12:38 < ananke> it's like a caricature of a comic book guy from simpsons
12:39 < LissajousPattern> BluesKaj, well isn't all tech obsolete pretty much the next day?
12:39 < dgurney> no?
12:39 < djph> ananke: except that comic book guy ... well, at least owned a store.
12:39 < LissajousPattern> djph, hahaha
12:40 < BluesKaj> well, your definition and mine differ considerably, lets just leave it at that.
12:40 < LissajousPattern> where is Elon?
12:40 < BluesKaj> LissajousPattern,^
12:40 < djph> ... was gonna say "didn't live in his mom's basement" ... but I'm farily certain there was an episode where he did, so :|
12:40 < ananke> djph: true that. hence caricature
12:40 < djph> (or at least certain one of you nerds will point out that in Season X, ep Y; he did)
12:41 < LissajousPattern> who has time for that?
12:41 < stevendale> Commander Rocket Comic Book
12:41 < stevendale> From Flight of the Amazon Queen
12:41 < LissajousPattern> TV that is?
12:49 < anomaly2> jhodrien: ty
12:53 < Roden> hello~
12:57 < ice9> laptop webcam is listed in lsusb, uvcvideo module is loaded; but /dev/video doesn't exist and applications cannot detect the cam
12:58 < djph> ice9: even cheese?
12:58 < ice9> djph, yes
12:59 < djph> ice9: "good" :).  a bit weird thought.  Any errors in dmesg about it?
12:59 < djph> s/thought/though/
12:59 < c-c> so, the module for the hw isn't loaded?
12:59 < ice9> djph, couple of lines like:  uvcvideo 1-7:1.0: Entity type for entity Camera 1 was not initialized!
13:00 < c-c> - or maybe theres such a thing as "class compliant" usb video device
13:00 < djph> ice9: that's the reason then.  I hate my webcams, and make sure they don't work
13:01 < ice9> c-c, uvcvideo is loaded
13:01 < c-c> ice9: is that class compliant device or does it need drivers/module?
13:02 < ice9> c-c, i don't know
13:02 < ice9> c-c, ithink it's compliant
13:04 < c-c> ice9: maybe you could still see if there is a separate firmware available for it/your distro
13:04 < ice9> c-c, usually it works without having to install a driver manually
13:05 < c-c> sorry, thats too ambiguous for me
13:37 < LissajousPattern> is there a way to disable ssh for specific interfaces such as wlan0?
13:38 < MrElendig> sure
13:38 < LissajousPattern> cool
13:38 < MrElendig> multiple ways to do that
13:39 < MrElendig> I asume you mean you want sshd to only listen to your wired interface
13:40 < MrElendig> you can use nftables/iptables (which you should anyway) tcp_wrappers (which are deprecated), fancy new feature in systemd or bind to a specific address, or a combination of them
13:40 < LissajousPattern> yes
13:40 < rumpel> there always are
13:40 < rumpel> 1) destroy wlan0 \o/
13:40 < MrElendig> My vote goes for iptables/nftables, since you should be using them anyway
13:40 < LissajousPattern> well I need wlan0
13:40 < LissajousPattern> but not for ssh
13:40 < BCMM> LissajousPattern: you can also set ListenAddress in sshd's config
13:41 < LissajousPattern> thanks y'all
13:41 < MrElendig> binding to the address has some issues though, what if you connect to a wifi network with the same address range
13:41 < BCMM> fair point
13:42 < MrElendig> network namespaces (optinally with the systemd wrappings), or netfilter lets you specify the interface itself
13:43 < LissajousPattern> I would technically just be binding to the subnet
13:43 < LissajousPattern> I think
13:43 < BCMM> MrElendig: come to think of it, i have no idea what Linux would do if it got given a DHCP lease for an address it's already using on another interface...
13:44 < seehrum> hi
13:44 < seehrum> hi
13:48 < oiaohm> BCMM: conflicting addresses get really interesting really quickly at times.
13:50 < LissajousPattern> BCMM, setting the listen address solved my issue
13:50 < LissajousPattern> thanks
13:50 < oiaohm> BCMM: https://www.unixmen.com/find-ip-conflicts-linux/ the horrible reality is its not invalid for multi devices to be given the same IP address.
13:51 < BCMM> LissajousPattern: note that, as MrElendig says, that may produce unexpected results if you have *any* dynamic networks
13:52 < LissajousPattern> yeah I will definitely keep an eye out but I think this is going to work just fine for my purpose because this particular IP is static
13:53 < LissajousPattern> this way is actually very good for what I am doing but I may never have even considered it at first
13:54 < LissajousPattern> because the only listening address is for a shared connection with a 10. address that will never change
13:54 < LissajousPattern> so I think it should be ok
14:01 < Armand> I feel like such a muppet..
14:01 < Armand> * */6 * * * /home/{user}/backup_mysql.sh >> /home/{user}/sql_backup_log 2>&1
14:01 < Armand> What's wrong with that cronjob ?
14:01 < mawk> for the IPv4 checksum I split the header into 3 uint64_t, add them up, take its residue modulo 65535, invert its bits; is that right ?
14:02 < haba713> hi! is it possible to start x as non-root without window manager just one x application running on it? how?
14:03 < xinobi> I need an incremental software for debian based operating system
14:03 < xinobi> server
14:04 < MrElendig> haba713: startx
14:04 < MrElendig> haba713: but really, your life will be better wiht a vm
14:04 < MrElendig> sounds like a xyproblem though
14:05 < blaztek> haba713: yes-use startx
14:06 < rumpel> which muppet?
14:06 < haba713> ok. do you know tinywm or some other vm and how can i start x with it and one x application running?
14:07 < haba713> as some other user than root
14:07 < blaztek> haba713: use .xinitrc to run the one program with no wm
14:09 < rypervenche> Armand: Are you actually using {user} or is that a placeholder for the real username?
14:09 < Armand> placeholder
14:10 < rypervenche> Armand: Nothing that I can see. What output are you getting that is not what you expect?
14:10 < Armand> Well... the issue is, that every 6 hours, it runs the job every minute..
14:10 < Armand> lmao
14:10 < triceratux> sauvin: fwiw the dedoimedo guy is in full agreement with you https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/kubuntu-beaver.html
14:19 < DevAntoine> Hi
14:20 < DevAntoine> I'm configuring a new VM to run a NodeJS API and an Angular website. I've got two choices for the app location: 1) Put the Angular app in /var/www/html and the NodeJS app in /opt 2) Put both apps in the dedicated user home directory. What do you think?
14:21 < jken> Hello, I am trying to install grub to a debian system from a bootable USB using the instructions listed in the top answer here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/831216/how-can-i-reinstall-grub-to-the-efi-partition However when I try to grub-install from the chroot, it does not have an x86_54 target in /usr/lib/grub, just i386. Can anyone help me figure this out?
14:22 < mawk> then install the right grub target
14:22 < mawk> grub-efi-bin or something
14:23 < jken> ah, ffs. On my live image I have grub-efi, but on the image I flashed to the system I had grub2.. Thanks mawk
14:25 < MrElendig> debian splits it in two packages?
14:25 < MrElendig> that's rather insane
14:25  * MrElendig assumes you didn't literally try --target=x86_54
14:26 < mawk> lol
14:26 < jken> MrElendig, I did. It just didn't have it.
14:26 < mawk> then it's x86_64
14:26 < jken> oh, you mean my typo,
14:26 < mawk> and not 54
14:26 < jken> yeah i did x86
14:26 < jken> -_64
14:26 < mawk> x86_64
14:26  * jken cannot type at all today
14:27 < jken> That is what I did. x86_64. Fat fingers today.
14:27 < MrElendig> --target=x86_64-efi  ?
14:27 < MrElendig> not that you should need --target, it should figure it out on its own
14:28 < jken> The system had neither x86_64 or x86_64-efi because I installed the wrong grub package, rebuiling my image now to test with the right package.
14:28 < MrElendig> and if debian doesn't include it in the grub2 package; time to swith distro
14:28 < MrElendig> splitting it is just insane imo
14:28 < dogbert2> heh...I had turned off all martian stuff in raspbian, but forgot to disable logging of martians :P
14:29 < rascul> debian doesn't split up grub2 like that
14:30 < rascul> grub1 may have had efi support added later in another package or something though, but not grub2
14:32 < MrElendig> then grub2 should have efi support and he shouldn't have this issue
14:33 < rascul> looks like he had grub2 and grub-efi installed or some such
14:33 < jken> The grub2 package does not include efi targets, the grub-efi package does ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
14:35 < rascul> eh debian's package search might be playing tricks on me
14:37 < rascul> ok i think i see now, looks like grub-efi-amd64 is needed, which should have been pulled in by grub-efi
14:37 < jken> Right, my mistake was installing grub2 instead of grub-efi
14:38 < rascul> you still would need grub2
14:39 < fendur> If I partition a flash stick, are the partitions actually physical partitions of the memory, or merely logical partitions? What I'm thinking about is whether I could limit repeated writes to a specific area of the flash.
14:40 < jken> The image is generated via mkosi, so it takes me a couple minutes to rebuild the image and flash it to the system (small IOT device).
14:40 < jken> will confirm soon
14:40 < rascul> fendur the partition boundaries are written into the partition table at the beginning of the disk
14:41 < fendur> rascul: I suppose my question is about how flash mem (usb sticks/sd cards) work. Do you mean the memory location 125 (just a stupid example) will ALWAYS belong to one partition?
14:42 < fendur> rascul: so long as I define it that way, I mean.
14:42 < rascul> i guess
14:42 < jken> AFAIK they can all be considered block devices, and work the same way as a normal disk
14:42 < rascul> i get confused because you keep referring to it as memory, and that's not common
14:43 < fendur> rascul: storage is maybe a better word. I understand the difference, if that helps.
14:43 < rascul> it depends on where you set the partition boundaries though
14:44 < fendur> rascul, jken: do either of you know how flash fails? If I partition a small space for, let's say log writing, and it fails because I wrote it too much. Can I isolate and ignore that failure by simply never using that parititon again? Or does flash failure tend to spread somehow?
14:45 < fendur> rascul: what do you mean it depends where?
14:45 < rascul> you can set your partition boundaries wherever you want, 125 might be on the first or third or whatever partition depending on how you set the boundaries
14:46 < rascul> i'm not too familiar with how flash on usb works with writes and stuff
14:46 < fendur> rascul: sure, that shouldn't be a problem. The point is I want 125 to always belong to parititon X so that when X fails, I can move on to Y with no worry that the failure will be a problem there.
14:46 < Deflate> Hey
14:46 < jken> I am not expert, but I believe physical failures might or might not cross partition boundaries.. depends on what fails.
14:46 < Deflate> can someone help me with this ? The apache2 is showing me this "DIGEST-MD5 common mech free"
14:47 < fendur> rascul, jken: ok, thanks guys. I'll think about whether I can experiment, or maybe google knows more.
14:47 < rascul> fendur well yeah, if 125 and only 125 fails, another partition won't ever hit that block again
14:47 < Deflate> ?
14:48 < jken> fendur, how do you know that block specifically will fail? Wouldn't failure of any block be just as likely
14:48 < fendur> jken: I don't. But it will be more likely to fail because it is written to often.
14:48 < rascul> Deflate maybe try #httpd
14:48 < Zajt> Hi! I am trying to dump ram memory to an usb and I run from a base terminal in Slitaz the command: sudo dd if=/dev/mem of=./dump.ddd bs=1024, but I get the error "dd: /dev/mem: Bad adress". Anyone know how I can fix this?
14:56 < revel> Disable CONFIG_DEVMEM. There, no more pesky /dev/mem, problem solved :D
14:56 < BCMM> Zajt: look at `man mem`
14:57 < BCMM> Zajt: Byte addresses in /dev/mem are interpreted as physical memory addresses.  References to nonexistent locations  cause errors to be returned.
14:58 < BCMM> Zajt: basically, devmem isn't checking if you're reading memory locations that actually exist - that's up to you
14:58 < BCMM> and if you're just trying to read indefinitely (no count= in dd), you're inevitably going to hit nonexistent locations eventually
15:00 < Zajt> alright I should have 4GB physical ram but dd is not able to manage 900MB
15:00 < BCMM> Zajt: oh actually it looks like i'm out of date - /dev/mem doesn't allow any access to actual memory any more
15:01 < BCMM> Zajt: i mean, to actual ram. just to memory-mapped things-that-aren't-RAM
15:01 < Zajt> yeah that's true, trying to bypass that
15:01 < BCMM> https://lwn.net/Articles/267427/
15:01 < BCMM> Zajt: may i ask what you're actually trying to do?
15:01 < jken> Confirmed, after installing grub-efi the only target I have is x86_64-efi
15:02 < Zajt> we are doing a cold boot attack in a project at university, so trying to dump ram memory after putting some text in a textfile and reading it after we have booted it into an usb
15:04 < BCMM> Zajt: so you control the environment doing the reading, right?
15:04 < Zajt> yeah BCMM
15:04 < BCMM> Zajt: sounds like you need to install a kernel module https://www.forensicswiki.org/wiki/Tools:Memory_Imaging#Linux
15:04 < neoncortex> Zajt: in pratice, how many time do you have after shutdown the machine to dump the memory?
15:06 < BCMM> Zajt: seems like https://github.com/504ensicslabs/lime is the one with ongoing development
15:06 < djph> neoncortex: not very long.  IIRC (and it's been ages) cryogenics only gets you up to mere minutes.
15:06 < Zajt> yeah the RAM memory won't be available for long, we will use coolant later on
15:07 < djph> neoncortex: and I may be vastly over-estimating the time
15:09 < neoncortex> djph: interesting
15:10 < djph> neoncortex:  At room temperature, typical retention time is counted in milliseconds
15:13 < alexandre9099> hi, what is the best way to measure the speed (read/write) of a flash drive?
15:14 < bomb> alexandre9099: hdparm
15:14 < MrElendig> there are also some dedicated benchmark tools for it
15:14 < neoncortex> djph: I get it wrong then, it means you have the entire machine in criogenics since the beginning .. I thought that people are booting machines, put information, shutting it down, tooking of ram and placing in criogenic
15:14 < bomb> yeah, hdparm isn't necessarily the best
15:14 < alexandre9099> MrElendig, like?
15:14 < MrElendig> depends on just what data you are after
15:15 < MrElendig> alexandre9099: phoronix test suite has a bunch
15:15 < alexandre9099> well, random data :)
15:15 < alexandre9099> i'll check
15:15 < Assid> hi, so im trying to use etherwake to wake up a pc .. and it doesnt work .. however.. wakeonlan works fine .. from ubuntu, but i need ot find a way to use etherwake .. since thats the only package on openwrt
15:15 < MrElendig> hdparm does sequential, not random access
15:15 < djph> neoncortex: hm, found a 2013 paper on it ... seems at 40C you're looking at a BEST CASE of 6 seconds.
15:16 < Jonno_FTW> if I fork a process in an ssh session, eg. my_script.sh&, will the script be killed when my ssh session ends?
15:16 < neoncortex> still, you need fast hands =D
15:16 < ananke> Jonno_FTW: yes
15:16 < Jonno_FTW> how doI keep it running?
15:16 < ananke> Jonno_FTW: use screen/tmux instead
15:16 < Jonno_FTW> ok
15:17 < MrElendig> Jonno_FTW: or use a proper service manager
15:17 < t0mato> is there a way to disable lid-close suspend that doesn't involve systemd-inhibit or restarting systemd-logind?
15:17 < MrElendig> instead of running things by hand
15:17 < djph> oops, misread the paper, they're testing at 45C
15:17 < jhodrien> Things don't necessarily get killed when you end your ssh connection.
15:18 < MrElendig> depends quite a bit on the system config too
15:18 < MrElendig> eg KillUserProcesses
15:18 < jken> Now that I have grub installing properly, my / is readonly when I boot..
15:18 < jhodrien> ssh to a machine, run 'sleep 20'.  Log out, log back in, sleep is still running, and completes as expected.
15:19 < _Sam--> Jonno_FTW, do you want the script to end or not end?  if you want it to not end, you could use screen
15:19 < jhodrien> If your script needs access to a tty, it's a different game.
15:21 < Jonno_FTW> _Sam--: I don't want the script to end, I will use screen
15:21 < _Sam--> its worth a try probably
15:21 < Jonno_FTW> also I will do it with pssh
15:21 < Psi-Jack> ...
15:21 < Psi-Jack> That sounds all kinds of bad.
15:21 < Jonno_FTW> why?
15:22 < Jonno_FTW> I want to run lots of long running scripts on a bunch of hosts
15:22 < Psi-Jack> So make them services?
15:22 < Jonno_FTW> they are once off jobs and I don't have root access
15:23 < ndsp> I generally use debian server-side, currently on 9, and I have no issues. Everything I need is available and installable. I'm thinking of going the same on my notebook. I hear a lot of complaints that recommend mint over debian or ubuntu. One being PPAs. Not sure why,  ihave no trouble with alternate repositories in debian.
15:23 < ndsp> I generally use debian server-side, currently on 9, and I have no issues. Everything I need is available and installable. I'm thinking of going the same on my notebook. I hear a lot of complaints that recommend mint over debian or ubuntu. One being PPAs. Not sure why,  ihave no trouble with alternate repositories in debian.
15:23 < Psi-Jack> No need to repeat, ndsp
15:24 < ndsp> Only half my message came through the first time.
15:24 < Psi-Jack> Jonno_FTW: You said that you don't want them to end. That usually means never-ending.
15:24 < Psi-Jack> Jonno_FTW: In that case, I would recommend simply put, running them with nohup, not screen/tmux.
15:24 < _Sam--> maybe he just needs them to run never ending, UNTIl they something hits a target or something else is reached
15:24 < Jonno_FTW> Psi-Jack: they run about 8 hours
15:24 < _Sam--> then die after that
15:24 < Psi-Jack> Jonno_FTW: Sure. That's fine.
15:24 < Jonno_FTW> or until they finish all their work
15:25 < Psi-Jack> nohup will prevent the ssh HUP from hanging it up on disconnect.
15:25 < djph> ndsp: it's the same mesage ... choose whichever you want for your daily driver.  Mint/Ubuntu tend to be "easier" in that they've got more recent software (vs. Debian's "stable" approach) ...
15:25 < Jonno_FTW> so basically use pssh to start a disconnected screen that runs my script
15:25 < Psi-Jack> ndsp: No, all of your message came through, both times.
15:26 < ndsp> I only see half on my end, so I needed to repeat.
15:26 < triceratux> ndsp: could be a good reason to upgrade to mint
15:26 < Psi-Jack> ndsp: Usually better to copy/paste what you saw missing, not repeat the whole thing.
15:26 < ndsp> Thanks djph.
15:26 < rypervenche> ndsp: The messages came through on our end. As for Debian vs Ubuntu/Mint, that's really up to you. If you want a more stable machine, stick with Debian. If you need newer software, then maybe moving to Mint/Ubuntu or another distro would be good for you. Any specific softwares you need?
15:27 < Psi-Jack> Upgrade? TO mint? Nah, that's a downgrade. heh
15:27  * Armand slaps Psi-Jack 
15:28 < rypervenche> ndsp: You're going to get very mixed opinions on which distros are better. You really have to figure out what you need specifically from your distro and then make that your main goal when choosing one.
15:28 < _Sam--> Jonno_FTW, thanks you taught me something, i never even heard of pssh until now.
15:28 < Jonno_FTW> np
15:28 < ndsp> Just dev libraries, c compiler, nodejs, postgresql, irc. I like debian, but from a desktop perspective, people say package managers are different. I use apt and never had an issue.
15:29 < Psi-Jack> Jonno_FTW: No screen is necessary.
15:29 < Psi-Jack> NOT necessary. :)
15:29 < triceratux> "it is easier to start with something that works & break it a piece at a time, than to start with something broken & fix it a piece at a time" --me http://linuxblog.darkduck.com/2018/05/linux-mistakes-newbies-make.html
15:29 < ndsp> I guess I'm trying to understand how mint is going to be easier or better than it's foundation, which is debian. And why I can't use debian packages in mint, when I can use apt in ubuntu.
15:29 < rypervenche> ndsp: You're listening to people's opinions again. Ubuntu and Mint also use apt, so there would be no change there. If you're interested in trying out a new distro, try one out in a VM. But most package managers do the same things.
15:29 < Jonno_FTW> I have: pssh -h hosts.txt  screen -d -m bash ~/job.sh
15:30 < ndsp> Debian it is then. Thank you!! Sorry about the double post.
15:30 < Jonno_FTW> Psi-Jack: how do I do it without screen then? I don't want ssh open the whole time the job is running
15:30 < Psi-Jack> Jonno_FTW: For the third time, nohup
15:30 < Jonno_FTW> ok
15:30 < rypervenche> ndsp: Mostly just newer packages and a prettier desktop environment by default. And newer packages = more bugs. Debian is very stable. If you need newer packages though, you might want to look into one of the newer distros. But you'll also potentially have to update/upgrade more frequently.
15:31 < Jonno_FTW> Psi-Jack: how do I do my command then?
15:31 < Psi-Jack> nohup command &
15:31 < zamba> isn't this cron entry valid: 0/15 14-20 * * * ?
15:31 < Jonno_FTW> ok
15:31 < zamba> it should run every 15 minutes, starting at the full hour?
15:31 < zamba> between 14 and 20
15:32 < rypervenche> zamba: */15 not 0/15
15:32 < zamba> rypervenche: what if i need it to run for instance 14:05, 14:20, 14:35?
15:32 < BCMM> ndsp: using apt is not the same thing as using debian's packages
15:32 < zamba> that's why i have 5/15 14-20 * * * as well
15:32 < Azrael_-> zamba: 5,20,35,...
15:32 < Psi-Jack> zamba: Yep, your original is correct.
15:33 < Azrael_-> ok, nm...
15:33 < BCMM> ndsp: apt can be configured to obtain packages from different "sources", and different debian-based distros generally use their own sources
15:33 < zamba> Psi-Jack: ok, it didn't trigger..
15:33 < Psi-Jack> zamba: How are you setting it up?
15:33 < rypervenche> zamba: Then you want 5-45/15
15:33 < Psi-Jack> rypervenche: What? ;p
15:33 < BCMM> ndsp: (ok, so some of the very lightly-derived distros just use debian's packages with a few of their own added on, but ubuntu uses entirely their own packages)
15:34 < zamba> 5/15 14-20 * * * echo "Stop" | mail -s "<subject>" "<mail>"
15:34 < rypervenche> zamba: Sorry, 5-50/15 rather if you want it to start at the 5 minute mark and not 0
15:34 < BCMM> ndsp: ubuntu packages are often build from the same source packages as debian ones, but this doesn't mean they're compatible, as they'll be built for different library version and so on
15:34 < Psi-Jack> zamba: And how did you implement that?
15:35 < rypervenche> Psi-Jack: ^fixed
15:35 < zamba> Psi-Jack: what do you mean? how?
15:35 < Psi-Jack> zamba: crontab -e, /etc/cron.*/files? etc.
15:36 < ndsp> BCM: I understand that, and also require some independant packages.
15:36 < zamba> Psi-Jack: crontab -e
15:36 < Psi-Jack> zamba: Okay. What's the cron log look like?
15:36 < Psi-Jack> (and, avoid using crontab -e)
15:37 < zamba> Psi-Jack: oh, why?
15:37 < Psi-Jack> zamba: It gets messy, quick. :)
15:38 < Psi-Jack> Imagine 10+ servers, mutliple different services and webapplications, and each webapp with their own user, and each user with their own crontab. It gets messy real quick. :)
15:39 < Psi-Jack> Versus in /etc/cron.d/*, everything is consolidated, multiple users, easily organized.
15:40 < Psi-Jack> Further, the user can't alter, delete or add things to the crontab by ways of RCE.
15:41 < Psi-Jack> Though, lately, I've been moving all my cron-run stuff over to systemd timers. There, I can, without writing aggressive logic around it, make any timer email me on failure, including a snippet of the log run so I can see real quick what happened.
15:41 < zamba> Psi-Jack: sounds interesting
15:41 < zamba> i like systemd
15:42 < zamba> especially the user services
15:42 < Psi-Jack> It is good stuff.
15:42 < zamba> but that's a different topic :)
15:43 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. heh. These days, most of my own servers don't even run crond anymore.
15:48 < mawk> finding the correct source address to send to an IP is incredibly complicated it seems
15:48 < mawk> if you count using ip route get as cheating
15:53 < noodlepie> Hiya guys!
15:54 < BluesKaj> hey noodlepie
15:59 < zap0> me == winblows (ab)user;  i havea linux box,  and a HDD,  can i format it to NTFS in linux?   and 2) expect it to work when plugged into a windows machine?
16:00 < turkeyhand> with archlinux in gnome, right click and extract here with a zip file creates a folder but no contents
16:06 < triceratux> turkeyhead: sounds like a problem with archlinux, or gnome, or the zip plugin that tries to ensure the seamlesness of the desktop experience
16:06 < triceratux> oops
16:08 < Nver__> jim: thank you! I'll choose python probably.
16:08 < mawk> good idea
16:08 < mawk> python 3, not 2
16:09 < Nver__> Yeah?
16:10 < Nver__> Are there a lot of differences?
16:10 < MrElendig> zap0: yes, yes
16:11 < Nver__> If I learned python 3, would it be easy to learn 2 one pretty fast? Or is it really different.
16:11 < zap0> MrElendig, ok, thanks.
16:11 < MrElendig> will be easier than the other way around Nver__
16:11 < ayecee> Nver__: it's mostly the same
16:11 < MrElendig> not that you should use py2
16:11 < Equalizer44> I want to smash someones head into a pc should it be linux or windows?
16:12 < zap0> MrElendig, 1 last Q..   is the ability to format to NTFS a "built-in" feature of most distros?   or do i need to jump thru some hoops to install it?
16:12 < MrElendig> zap0: varies if the distro comes with ntfsprogs preinstalled or not
16:12 < ayecee> most do
16:12 < Nver__> Thanks
16:12 < MrElendig> ntfs-3g even
16:12 < zap0> and if it does not,  is it a simple  apt-get  thingy?
16:12 < MrElendig> generally yes
16:13 < zap0> ok.  much appreactiated.
16:14 < mawk> it would be easy to switch from 3 to 2.7 Nver__
16:14 < mawk> but 3 is where the cool features are
16:15 < Nver__> Hmmm, cool
16:15 < Nver__> Thank you
16:15 < MrElendig> py2 will piss you off after learning py3 though
16:15 < Nver__> Interesting
16:16 < absurdistani> I mean... python pisses me off and always has, but programming language choices are rather peculiar and to each his own
16:18 < Psi-Jack> py2.6->2.7 was bad enough, but 2.x->3.anything is just... Hostil;e.
16:19 < mawk> lol
16:19 < mawk> things had to change
16:19 < mawk> have less bizarre operators like print but turn them into regular functions, uniformize objects
16:20 < pihpah> I am getting error like this one 'too many open files' when trying to connect to a remote host over SSH. The host is being used for a remote port forwarding to another host which sets up it by the means of /usr/bin/autossh -M 50101    -N -R 10022:localhost:22 -R 16000:localhost:16000 -R 16001:localhost:16001 -R 9981:localhost:9981 remotehost
16:20 < twainwek> what was the bad change between 2.6 and 2.7
16:20 < pihpah> Any idea what's wrong?
16:20 < pihpah> What causes that error? autossh?
16:20 < mawk> are you running a web server currently pihpah ?
16:21 < mawk> try to temporarily raise the fd limit and try again
16:21 < mawk> uh it's maybe not that limit but something else, can't remember where to set the global limit
16:22 < pihpah> mawk: I use that technique to access my local host over the Internet.
16:22 < Trel> Is the visual mode of Vim exclusive to Vim and not present in Vi? (The one you initate with 'v' which allows you to select blocks of text to yank, delete, etc)
16:22 < ayecee> Trel: no
16:22 < mawk> I know pihpah I'm just asking if there is a web server running of the host
16:22 < Psi-Jack> pihpah: First of all, Any particular reason you're not using ProxyJump ssh methods?
16:22 < pihpah> Psi-Jack: never heard of that.
16:22 < MrElendig> Trel: don't use vi
16:22 < Psi-Jack> pihpah: Look into it.
16:23 < Psi-Jack> It's in newer versions of openssh, and WELL worth it. :)
16:23 < MrElendig> Trel: and yes actual vi does not have vidual
16:23 < MrElendig> visual
16:24 < Zajt> Do you know if any distro have the flag: CONFIG_STRICT_DEVMEM disabled by default?
16:25 < MrElendig> one of the 50k distroes made probably has it disabled
16:25 < Zajt> yeah but question is which one :P
16:27 < heftig> if you need it off, why not build your own kernel?
16:27 < Trel> MrElendig: I don't use Vi, I actually use Nano, I was looking for a cheatsheet for an embedded thing which only has vi/vim and the sheet didn't mention visual mode at all, which is why I was curious if that was vim-exclusive.
16:28 < pihpah> Psi-Jack: ProxyJump won't help because the internal host in my case isn't a public one, it's behind a NAT.
16:28 < MrElendig> Trel: vi doesn't even have :help
16:28 < MrElendig> :p
16:28 < mawk> who uses vim anyway
16:28 < Zajt> heftig: it is advanced to install it
16:28 < Trel> elitists.
16:29 < Zajt> difficult* is a better word
16:29 < ayecee> mawk: greybeards
16:29 < Psi-Jack> pihpah: It will work.
16:30 < Psi-Jack> That is EXACTLY the purpose for ProxyJump, to JUMP through hosts to get to the final destination.
16:30 < furrymcgee> evim is easy modeless vim
16:30 < Psi-Jack> ssh -J host1,host2,host3 finalhost
16:30 < neoncortex> modeless vim?
16:31 < ayecee> shiftless car
16:31 < ananke> jumpproxy in ssh works like magic. too bad it wasn't available in earlier versions
16:32 < neoncortex> yes, my head is like that
16:32 < absurdistani> mawk: I see you trollin. vim > *
16:33 < eqw> I'm trying to delete the file which doesn't exist in lsof output and rm returns 0 but the file persists. Why?
16:33 < mawk> who is trolling now
16:33 < mawk> everybody with a sane mind now that emacs has this qualificative
16:34 < mawk> which fs eqw ?
16:34 < Trel> ayecee: Now I need to play skyrim again
16:35 < eqw> mawk: ext4
16:35 < mawk> that's strange
16:36 < mawk> even if the file is open the directory entry doesn't persist, the inode does
16:36 < mawk> and the latter is invisibale
16:36 < ayecee> eqw: what shows the file persists?
16:36 < mawk> so it's not an open file problem
16:36 < absurdistani> mawk: I mean... there are other editors, but we all know "the one true editor" is vim ^.~
16:37 < eqw> ayecee: mc, ls, stat
16:37 < mawk> can you read mail, browse the net and go on irc with your vim ? I don't think so
16:37 < neoncortex> I like emacs, but that all have nothing to do with editing xD
16:38 < mawk> it increases your productivity
16:38 < mawk> a programmer doesn't just edits, he chats and browse
16:38 < absurdistani> mawk, I mean emacs has a vi mode, so I guess it can come too
16:38 < mawk> lol
16:38 < mawk> nobody with a sane mind is installing that thing
16:38 < mawk> I like the bare shortcuts with just a few additions for smooth scrolling
16:39 < mawk> and (windmove-default-keybindings 'M) to quckly change windows
16:39 < ayecee> it's funny when you do it a little bit, but it's getting old
16:39 < absurdistani> but... that's what screen is for
16:40 < absurdistani> like, you have screen, and then a window with mutt, a few with vim and then a window with irc
16:40 < absurdistani> and then there's no need for emacs ^.^
16:41 < absurdistani> and its horrible repetitive stress inducing keybindings
16:42 < neoncortex> some day when I got nothing to do I'll install evil in emacs to see how it goes
16:44  * triceratux recalls fondly installing the vile slackbuild
16:44 < Psi-Jack> absurdistani: Spacemacs seems to be a blend of emacs+vim
16:45 < Psi-Jack> Finally, a decent text editor arrives to EmacsOS.
16:46 < absurdistani> I personally never use emacs, and as a Slackware user, I never install that package series.
16:46 < mawk> nobody obeys you ayecee see
16:46 < absurdistani> however, I must acknowledge that it's sufficient because it has Vi now.
16:46 < mawk> even Psi-Jack
16:46 < twainwek> i've noticed it's always vi/m users who whine about emacs, not the other way around. why is that?
16:47 < absurdistani> lol. this time it was actually mawk who brought it up, I just took the bait
16:47 < mawk> :(
16:47 < Psi-Jack> twainwek: emacs users are too busy getting councelling from eliza.
16:47 < mawk> who's eliza
16:47 < mawk> M-x eliza does nothing :(
16:48 < mawk> ah it's M-x doctor
16:48 < absurdistani> the emacs users also have crippling repetitive stress injuries due to the keybinds that emacs has.
16:48 < Psi-Jack> Yes, doctor. :)
16:48 < absurdistani> so they don't type as much
16:48 < mawk> how do you know her name is Eliza ?
16:48 < Psi-Jack> absurdistani: Oh, that too!
16:48 < mawk> it never wanted to say its name to me
16:48 < nrg> LOL absurdistani
16:48 < ychaouche> hello ##linux
16:48 < mawk> hi
16:48 < neoncortex> the Doctor name is Eliza? they never said me it
16:49 < mawk> are you french or algerian ychaouche ?
16:49 < Psi-Jack> hehe
16:49 < absurdistani> or quebecois(e)?
16:49 < ychaouche> I was wondering what was the original intent of the author of the /usr/bin/yes program, and why is it in coreutils ?
16:49 < twainwek> M-x browse-url https://google.com/?q=who%20is%20eliza
16:49 < ychaouche> mawk: both !
16:50 < ychaouche> but I'm more algerian than french
16:50 < mawk> after 84308490384093 questions it says "How does it feel to want?"
16:50 < mawk> it's trying to drive me crazy
16:51 < ayecee> why drive when you can walk
16:51 < triceratux> ychaouche: early in the history of linux development it became obvious there was a reason to have a program which always executes successfully
16:51 < ychaouche> especially from kitchen to bedroom
16:51 < noodlepie> My God is Yahweh and my OS is GNu/Linux or Linux/GNU as the ordering should be
16:52 < revel> triceratux: It spams "y".
16:52 < absurdistani> triceratux, ychaouche, as oppose to most other programs in Linux which kind of just do whatever they want XD
16:52  * Psi-Jack executes `yes no` on revel.
16:52 < rumpel> ychaouche, https://askubuntu.com/questions/71566/what-is-the-yes-command  : "It can also be used to test how well a system handles high loads, as using yes results in 100% processor usage [..]"
16:52 < ychaouche> triceratux: that's true
16:53 < revel> I think it's used for some things that read for user input from stdin and feeds "y" by default or whatever you specify.
16:53 < revel> Or summin.
16:53 < Psi-Jack> revel: Exactly. It defaults to y, but you can make it answer yes, no, enter, etc.
16:53 < triceratux> oops i got yes confused with true
16:53 < ychaouche> yes it's true
16:53 < ayecee> true, true
16:53 < revel> triceratux: Thought you did.
16:54 < ayecee> for extra fun, run "yes we have no bananas"
16:54 < ychaouche> or yes `yes` to test the CPU
16:54 < twainwek> yes
16:56 < Psi-Jack> Heh, that actually crashed my gnome-terminal. LOL
16:56 < revel> Good ol' Gnome.
16:57 < Psi-Jack> Basically that's a forkbomb.
16:57 < twainwek> at least he managed to boot into gnome without crashing
16:58  * Psi-Jack scratches his head at that.
16:58 < absurdistani> lol. yes `yes` actually crashes every terminal emulator I test it in. that's fun.
16:58 < absurdistani> but it's not quite a fork bomb because it doesn't endlessly fork and kill the host
16:58 < Psi-Jack> No, but it kills the terminal you're in.
16:59 < Psi-Jack> That's still a forkbomb. Just not as destructive as others.
16:59 < section1> not in konsole
16:59 < uplime> how is it a forkbomb?
16:59 < uplime> its only forking twice, no?
16:59 < uplime> maybe 3 times
17:00 < revel> Psi-Jack: A resource drain, maybe, but it's quite linear rather than exponential.
17:00 < ayecee> it shouldn't kill your terminal
17:00 < ychaouche> uplime: man yes. It reads every string you give it as argument.
17:00 < Psi-Jack> Huh... I don't even have konsole installed anywhere, anymore.
17:01 < section1> no fork no childs
17:01 < ayecee> can't have children without forking
17:01 < section1> maybe a thread :D
17:01 < ychaouche> uplime: oh, you're right ^^'
17:02 < ychaouche> ayecee: :D
17:02 < sirwilliam> Random question incoming... Does anyone know why Linux distros use tty7 for their default x/gui session?
17:02 < ychaouche> good question
17:02 < rxs> sirwilliam: not all linux distros use tty7
17:02 < triceratux> yep yes `yes` required a warmboot. i was getting ready to reboot anyway. good news is the swagarch key import is broken again so i can test some SigLevel stuff
17:02 < revel> sirwilliam: I think some use tty3... Probably just a convention.
17:02 < Psi-Jack> sirwilliam: Because.
17:02 < ayecee> i want to believer that the french verb is forquer
17:03 < Psi-Jack> Well, Fedora uses tty1.
17:03 < rxs> arch uses tty2 for the desktop and tty1 for gdm
17:03 < Psi-Jack> arch uses whatever you make it.
17:03 < revel> You could probably tell your DM to use whatever you want.
17:03 < rxs> by default its tty2 and tty1
17:04 < revel> Err, whichever one.
17:04 < ychaouche> ayecee: it's brancher, and it's also used to make children
17:04 < sirwilliam> Ah, I only use rasbian, ubuntu, and lubuntu. Thanks! tty1 makes more sense. Figured their may be some reason why, ha ha.
17:04 < sirwilliam> *there
17:04 < ayecee> nice
17:06 < Research> Does anyone know a way to test wether a given terminal emulator supports truecolor escape sequences?
17:06 < Psi-Jack> Run a true color escape sequences test script.
17:07 < revel> I'd run mpv --vo=tct
17:07 < Research> what's mpv?
17:07 < Psi-Jack> Video player.
17:07 < triceratux> woo woo i fixed swagarch without hacking on the /etc/pacman.conf. i just keep saying pacman-key --populate archlinux until it stops burping over not getting all the keys from the keyserver & pacman -Sy finally succeeds
17:08 < Research> well I kinda want to test it automatically for users of my program
17:08 < revel> --vo=tct makes it output video as truecolor-coloured ASCII or summin.
17:08 < section1> Research, tput colors
17:08 < Research> that returns 256
17:08 < Psi-Jack> Research: Look for COLORTERM being set to truecolor, then.
17:09 < Research> Is that standard Psi-Jack?
17:09 < Psi-Jack> Yes
17:09 < ychaouche> ok how about /dev/mem ? why is it there ? what can you do with it ?
17:09 < Research> neat thanks
17:09 < triceratux> my main question still remains, why would a distro ask the user to become an expert in all the things that can keep the packagemanager from working ? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman/Package_signing why not fix the packagemanager rofl ?
17:11 < section1> Research, 256  colors support
17:12 < section1> for more info http://linuxcommand.org/lc3_adv_tput.php
17:12 < uplime> ychaouche | uplime: man yes. It reads every string you give it as argument.
17:12 < uplime> thanks but im aware with what yes does
17:12 < Research> section1, my point was it doesn't tell you wether or not your terminal supports truecolor which was my question
17:12 < Research> but Psi-Jack already gave me a working solution
17:12 < section1> yeah i read it
17:13 < Psi-Jack> Research: COLORTERM=truecolor doesn't necessarily mean their terminal supports it.. Just that the user wants to use it. :)
17:13 < Psi-Jack> Same with basically anything else, user-set, not actually guaranteed, though.
17:14 < Research> Psi-Jack, I mean what I'll do is just check if it's set and use it
17:14 < Research> and if it isn't set I ask the user
17:15 < Psi-Jack> if it's not set, why ask? The terminal wouldn't be in truecolor mode.
17:15 < Research> I mean someone for who it would break because they changed it would probably know what happened
17:16 < Research> Psi-Jack, in case someone uses some weird terminal which actually does support it but doesn't have that variable set
17:16 < Psi-Jack> ...
17:16 < Research> whatever the case since terminals are weird I might as well give the user an option to force it for whatever reason
17:16 < Psi-Jack> You're ignoring the point. If it's not set, the user doesn't want it.
17:16 < BCMM> Research: then they basically have a terminal that doesn't support true colour
17:17 < BCMM> Research: because no other program will attempt it either
17:17 < Research> Psi-Jack, honestly I would probably just have a config or flag for forcing it
17:17 < Research> I'm not attempting it by default BCMM - it would be disabled by default but it could be forced manually
17:17 < Psi-Jack> That's... Silly.
17:18 < Psi-Jack> That's not how terminal emulation works.
17:18 < Research> Psi-Jack, so what exactly is the issue with giving users an extra option which they can just ignore?
17:18 < Psi-Jack> Becsause the terminal won't do it.
17:19 < Research> what if the user wants to pipe out the truecolor codes ?
17:19 < Psi-Jack> terminfo is looking for that.
17:19 < Psi-Jack> Then they can run COLORTERM=truecolor yourcommand.
17:19 < Research> because with this tool it's totally something you could do
17:20 < Research> yeah I guess that's also an option
17:20 < BLU42> Hello, how would I set a "more verbose boot" in the on-boot grub options? as in, I have modified the grub boot params (added a modprobe.blacklist on the end of the linux block)
17:21 < BLU42> so the module is not loading, but hte system is also not booting, so now I need more information
17:31 < section1> BLU42, are you using quiet as boot param ?
17:32 < BLU42> section1, hmm yes
17:33 < oneko> What do we call this section of the desktop where you have the volume, input method, power off and power on icons ?!https://i.imgur.com/9szk7Aa.png
17:33 < BLU42> section1, very nice. filled the screen with output
17:33 < oneko> Is it supposed to be the system tray ?
17:34 < BLU42> Seems like it's hanging on "kvm: Nested Virtualization enabled", final line: "kvm: Nested Paging enabled"
17:35 < triceratux> http://pastebin.centos.org/731121/raw/
17:37 < BLU42> I'm on the freshest, Debian 9.4
17:37 < section1> BLU42, which module blacklisted ?
17:38 < Psi-Jack> Heh, poof!
17:39 < BLU42> section1, the error I was getting was related to "sp5100_tco: can't find address", the resolution was to blacklist "i2c_piix4"
17:39 < BLU42> Psi-Jack, middle clicks D:
17:43 < section1> BLU42, if you don't blacklist that module boots up?
17:43 < BLU42> section1, no, if I don't blacklist the module I get the sp5100 error (and it hangs there and does not continue booting)
17:44 < toothe> I'm stigging a Machine and a little confused by what this does:
17:44 < BLU42> blacklisting the module (I removed 'quiet' from boot params and added 'debug') results in hanging on kvm: Nested Paging enabled
17:44 < toothe> in /etc/modprobe.d/CIS.conf, I'm supposed to add 'install freevxfs /bin/true'
17:44 < toothe> What does that mean?
17:45 < toothe> oh wait...man page.
17:46 < noway96> ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid : no such file or directory?!
17:47 < rumpel> noway96, chroot?
17:47 < danieldg> noway96: some pre-udev system?
17:49 < section1> BLU42, try to blacklist kvm stuff if you don't need it
17:49 < BLU42> section1, it's for proxmox so it's pretty needed
17:49 < section1> ah
17:49 < section1> its an amd ?
17:49 < BLU42> section1, I didn't blacklist the module, and un-quieted it: seems it's gone further than kvm paging table. Yes, AMD and mobo is ASROCK B350 Pro4
17:50 < BLU42> section1, not blacklisting has ended further: "fb: switching to amdgpudrmfb from EFI VGA"
17:51 < BLU42> I wonder if I need to plug graphics into the on-board integrated graphics instead of using the GPU. I bet.
17:54 < noway96> rumpel, daneldg turns out faulty boot usb
17:54 < toothe> err..odd
17:54 < toothe> I am trying to run a check if grep returns anything.
17:54 < toothe> If so, i"ll do something -- otherwise something else.
17:54 < toothe> but I do not want to see the output of the grep command.
17:55 < danieldg> toothe: grep -q?
17:55 < toothe> that's a thing?
17:56 < toothe> wow, thanks!!
17:56 < BLU42> section1, nevermind, AMD Ryzen doesn't have integrated graphics and the eGPU is necessary --
17:59 < section1> BLU42, strange ...too im not familiar with adm
17:59 < section1> amd*
17:59 < noodlepie> Linux is like a free Porsche/Lambourghini engine for your car, every day. Still have to pay gas/petrol - electricity but its worth it. I love Linux, used it for 25 years now and all my jobs have been working on Free Software. I hack GNU, specfically gPhoto and its Konica camera driver. I wrote mine before convincing Konica to release a Free driver of their own.
18:00 < noodlepie> Its fast and secure to the most point.
18:01 < noodlepie> I have Debian on our communal PC and Gentoo on my speedier laptop (8thread-i7). The package install speed in Debian is terrific, in Gentoo you have to wait for each package to build which takes a while but its work it for the optimized packages
18:01 < prillian5> I have create an image of an SD-card with some partitions like this: dd if=/dev/sdc of=/tmp/myImage.img
18:02 < triceratux> noodlepie: but ... but ... whats wrong with arch ?
18:02 < prillian5> This is an raspberry-pi sd-card. I put it back to another sd-card and insert it into an raspberry-pi
18:02 < prillian5> but this gives me kernel-panic.
18:02 < prillian5> any idea why?
18:02 < prillian5> by default, dd should clone the whole sd-card, right?
18:03 < noodlepie> I don't really like all those "custom desktop 'complete' OS distributions. They are just fancy "own desktop" sort of things. The generic level of Debian and Gentoo is really useful. Just install what you want for what you need.
18:03 < BLU42> prillian5, you specified the device /dev/sdc, you probably want to specify the partition, sdcX where x is probably 1. make the partition first if you don't alread yhave then try again
18:04 < turkeyhand> I installed kali to an external drive, wrote grub to that drive, and it went to the emergency command prompt thing
18:04 < turkeyhand> it said the partition didn't exist
18:05 < prillian5> BLU42: You mean, I'm not able to clone the whole device.. but need to make an image of each of its partitions?
18:05 < prillian5> BTW... I wan't to clone the whole device with all partitions
18:12 < MrElendig> sd cards are unreliable as hell, it is not unlikely that the copy got corrupted
18:12 < MrElendig> turkeyhand: use a proper distro instead
18:12 < BLU42> prillian5, I misunderstood what you were trying to do. You should be fine running dd if=/dev/sdc of=/tmp/myImage.img ...
18:13 < MrElendig> turkeyhand: sounds like you messed up the grub config though
18:13 < MrElendig> prillian5: for the future: bs=4M can speed it up significantly
18:13 < absurdistani> prillian5 the only thing that I would caution is that when restoring that image you need to make sure that you are resroting to a device that is the same geometry as the source.
18:17 < prillian5> absurdistani: mhh. what do you mean, both aree SD-cards of same type
18:17 < MrElendig> prillian5: md5sum the source and the copy
18:18 < prillian5> How does ths work to md5sum a /dev/sdc and an .img-File?
18:19 < [Awaxx]> Try to flush using "sync" in your terminal before unpluging that sd... you surely gonna enjoy less corrupted datas...
18:19 < MrElendig> want to md5sum the card you copied it to
18:19 < absurdistani> prillian5, if they're the same size and same vendor, then you should be good. the md5 of the source and destination should work if they have the same contents because they are both just files to the os ^.~
18:20 < absurdistani> card to card md5 that is
18:21 < triceratux> MrElendig: repetitive pacman-key --populate commands are now fixing my swagarch pacman. ive never had to do that before & its still only an intermittent effect. glad i had the opportunity to learn about it. swagarch world domination
18:21 < turkeyhand> how do I safely expand the partition my OS is installed to
18:22 < turkeyhand> ext4
18:22 < turkeyhand> there's another partition after it that I don't use
18:23 < Linnak> Hi, Anyone uses DOuble Commander?
18:25 < dannylee> hi
18:25 < Linnak> I can't figure out, how I can add more condition to Searc & Replace. In Total Commander it's the | character.
18:29 < saltlake> Hi
18:35 < dami0> hi, is there any way to make it so that if i have two interfaces, one is only set up on boot if another has finished getting a dhcp address?
18:36 < ayecee> could perform the setup of the manual one in a post-up script for the dhcp one.
18:37 < dami0> that's an idea, thanks
18:41 < royal_screwup21> is it just me or does anyone else think it's weird that ipv6 supports 128 addresses when 2^6 is...64
18:42 < royal_screwup21> 128 bit*
18:42 < ayecee> i think you may be unique in that reasoning.
18:43 < ayecee> like, where are you getting 2^6 from.
18:43 < royal_screwup21> ayecee: so it has nothing to do with powers of 2?
18:43 < royal_screwup21> ah fair
18:43 < royal_screwup21> ayecee: I was just wondering why it's called ipv6
18:43 < trifesleuth> ipv4 is 32bit iirc, but yeah 128bit is on the fringes of sanity
18:43 < n-iCe> hello guys, any know a software where I can draw some lines and convert them to dxf ? so I can send it to laser cut?
18:43 < royal_screwup21> like, what's the logic being the 6
18:44 < ayecee> royal_screwup21: v stands for version
18:44 < dami0> version 6 = v6, but it's 2^128, not 2^6
18:44 < ayecee> it's the 6th version of ip
18:44 < royal_screwup21> oh
18:44 < dami0> great name though xD
18:45 < royal_screwup21> trifesleuth: why is it on the fringes of sanity?
18:45 < royal_screwup21> you don't think it's conceivable?
18:45 < trifesleuth> i don't see a valid reason
18:45 < ayecee> inconceivable!
18:45 < ayecee> trifesleuth: haven't looked very hard either
18:46 < trifesleuth> tell me the reason ayecee
18:46 < dami0> just get an address with d34db33f in it, totally makes ipv6 worth it
18:46 < ayecee> let me look it up for you
18:46  * jml2 https://imgur.com/a/C7v9SAi
18:46 < trifesleuth> i'll be waiting here for you to return then!
18:46 < ayecee> sounds good!
18:47 < ayecee> holding your breath, i hope
18:47 < trifesleuth> naturally
18:48 < ayecee> i imagine there's a rationale for the size in one of the earlier ipv6 rfcs.
18:48 < triceratux> jml2: wut kde neon in a vbox ? you n00b ! run swagarch on the metal
18:48 < royal_screwup21> cute_korean_girl: why? It's blindingly obvious you're a dude.
18:49 < ayecee> royal_screwup21: thanks, captain obvious!
18:49 < ayecee> or should i say, his obviousness
18:49 < ayecee> you know, because royal
18:50 < royal_screwup21> finally
18:50 < prawn> what do you mean inconceivable, everything that accessess the net should have a public unique address, if we completely eradicated NAT today... oh boy. plus we'll want to reach across planets eventually, trust me, if this standard is not to be obsolete within a couple (tenths of) years now that we're finally moving there, going for 2^128 bit as the address space is a fine thing to do, especially since it's
18:50 < prawn> just two words on a modern CPU, so inbetweens like 2^96 make little sense.
18:50 < ayecee> wall o text
18:50 < prawn> excuse me
18:50 < prawn> for not
18:50 < prawn> doing this
18:50 < trifesleuth> tell me about how we need an IP address for every grain of sand
18:50 < ayecee> i think there's a third option
18:51 < royal_screwup21> how about like 2^6 + <some big, but not THAT big number>
18:51 < prawn> trifesleuth: as i said, every device that accesses the public internet should have a public IP to respond to, NAT should get replaced by sane firewalls
18:51 < trifesleuth> s/how/why/
18:51 < prawn> and this spec is designed to last longer, maybe even forever
18:52 < prawn> a book about zfs, a filesystem that amongst other cool things uses 128 bit integers as well, sort of starts out with 'zfs is the filesystem that's made to last, the computers on the USS Enterprise likely run ZFS'
18:52 < jml2> triceratux, a lot of neon user/developers use slack.com -- I was wondering what's great about it..
18:53 < jml2> triceratux, neon users are the 2nd popular visitors(linux) at this site..
18:53 < jml2> triceratux, (recently been using slack.com)
18:55 < triceratux> jml2: must be the socks in the store
18:56 < jml2> triceratux, slack.com is a user/developer service .. i think a lot of kde developers must be using it -- just a guess because it is popular right after ubuntu --- neon devs claim it isn't a distro (wikipedia)
18:57 < stevendale> Fun fact: America assassinated Osama bin Laden 7 years ago today
18:57 < trifesleuth> prove it, stevendale
18:57 < neoncortex> what's exactly is a neon user?
18:57 < jml2> triceratux, looks like xenial stocked in sources.list and then an http://archive.neon.kde.org  repo in sources.list.d/
18:58 < stevendale> trifesleuth: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=osama+bin+laden+death
18:59 < trifesleuth> or don't call it a fact if you can't
19:00 < jml2> stevendale, fun fact: you don't know what the word "ass" means :)
19:01 < azarus> donkey?
19:01 < jml2> technically ass*ing someone means that the person getting killed is a high-ranking official.
19:02 < pyagpie> ass*ing is the inclusive term
19:02 < stevendale> Well he was high ranking as a terrorist, that counts right? :P
19:02 < jml2> pyagpie, ass*ing someone is the new water boarding..
19:03 < Armand> stevendale: Your assertion implies that he wasn't a scumbag that deserved a painful death.
19:03 < jml2> stevendale, Mandela was also considered a high ranking terrorist.
19:03 < jml2> stevendale, according to you guys the Americans  XD
19:03 < jml2> LOL
19:03  * jml2 hides * XD
19:03  * stevendale is Australian ^w^
19:04 < jml2> stevendale, you guys over there in Australia use the word "Canadians" in a derogative manner. I don't like that..
19:04 < jml2> stevendale, (fact)
19:04 < neoncortex> it's gunny that go into other people nations, explode it all and took their resources aren't terrorism xD
19:04 < neoncortex> #funny
19:04 < revel> stevendale: You're Australian?
19:04 < stevendale> revel: Yeah \o/
19:05 < revel> That explains some things, dunnit.
19:05  * stevendale fires the wave motion gun in jml2's general direction
19:05 < jml2> stevendale, killing is not a fun fact..
19:05 < jml2> stevendale, I think that is stupid..
19:06 < toothe> Hm..this STIG asks me to create a /tmp partition rather than using /.
19:06 < toothe> Is there a quick and dirty way to make a tmpfs partition that auto-remounts on reboot?
19:06 < jml2> toothe, /dev/shm is a standard for all major distros, what gives for an extra tmpfs?
19:07 < toothe> jml2: Its a security requirement we have...
19:07 < jml2> toothe, security requirement ?
19:07 < jml2> toothe, but you're a noob!
19:07 < toothe> wow, i might as well re-install this.
19:07 < toothe> This is asking me to create a separate /var and /tmp.
19:07 < ezio> does shred work on ssd drives?
19:07 < revel> "Auto-remounts" on reboot? Surely it'd be "mounts at boot"
19:08 < toothe> yah, this is a Kali box (Debian).
19:08 < toothe> And apparently the partitions need to be specificailly set for this damn STIG.
19:08 < revel> Probably just something you can stick in fstab.
19:08 < toothe> I don't know what exactly heh.
19:08 < toothe> this is basically repartitinoing and existing install.
19:08 < jml2> triceratux, what's so great about swarg? I can setup arch in 20 minutes..
19:09 < jml2> triceratux, last time I tried arch was like 6 years ago XD
19:09 < ezio> does zero filling work on ssd drives?
19:09 < jml2> ezio, it would but then you're killing your ssd- -- use trim or 'secureerase'
19:10 < pyagpie> I want to make this year my personal year of the linux desktop
19:10 < jml2> ezio, if you're practicing loop mounting, then I suggest doing a "sparse file" of zero-value content in it.. this way it doesn't make any writes unless there's actual data
19:11 < ezio> I want to destroy all data on the drive so that it cannot be recovered
19:11 < jml2> ezio, try secure erase
19:12 < jml2> ezio, https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase
19:12 < ezio> i'm using shred right now.  It's about halfway through its first pass.  lemme lookup secure erase
19:13 < ezio> to be blunt, I don't care if the drive explodes
19:14 < jml2> ezio, secureerase is fast and most effective -- but you need to take your time doing it, because you don't want to set a password you forget --- the password is removed later -- but its also possible to secureerase without a password set
19:14 < ananke> ezio: single pass with shred will be sufficient. beyond that, you can always drill holes through it
19:14 < jml2> ananke, he's using an ssd
19:14 < ananke> ahh
19:14 < ananke> missed that
19:14 < triceratux> jml2: mainly swag is live xfce so you dont have to run the installer onto a spare partition. just break out the squashfs & point at it with an archisolabel= from grub2 & its up. & highly secure because its nonpersistent unless you do something to change that
19:15 < ezio> It's company property from the job I'm leaving.
19:15 < pyagpie> does anyone have any tips on what to do with data shared on SSD and HDD that I don't want to delete (when migrating to linux)
19:16 < iqubic> How does one go about changing the default mouse cursor that X Org shows me?
19:16 < neoncortex> I generally don't delete data I won't to delete, and delete the others
19:16 < pyagpie> should I just minimize the partitions and stick them on a used old HDD and then just format them
19:16 < jml2> pyagpie, pull it out of hte system?  disable the disk in your bios? (my bios can do this)
19:16 < iqubic> What OS are you using now?
19:16 < jml2> pyagpie, that's the easiest approach
19:17 < pyagpie> neoncortex, I don't trust my judgment here
19:17 < jml2> pyagpie, resizing is always too much a risk without backing up
19:17 < iqubic> jml2: Yeah, it is.
19:17 < neoncortex> pyagpie: oh
19:18 < iqubic> What I would do is backup the data, shrink the partition, and then install Linux in the empty space you just made.
19:18  * jml2 has a bios he can disable all on-board sata, and use just usb sticks to try things out natively
19:18 < pyagpie> so if I can get this whole thing down to below 500GB and keep it
19:18 < iqubic> How big is your hard drive?
19:18 < pyagpie> 1TB and 256GB SSD
19:18 < iqubic> Alright.
19:19 < iqubic> How much of that space is being used?
19:19 < jml2> better to have two 1TB and do raid1 mirroring :))
19:19 < pyagpie> well the intention here
19:19 < pyagpie> is that I don't want to buy anything
19:19 < iqubic> That's fine
19:19 < jml2> that's not fine!
19:19 < jml2> you need to buy!
19:20 < jml2> and protect your data!!!
19:20 < pyagpie> The truly easiest way to migrate would to just forget these two drives and build on a new SSD+HDD combo
19:20 < pyagpie> but as long as I don't have M.2...
19:20 < pyagpie> I don't really want to invest in a SATA SSD
19:20 < pyagpie> unless reallygooddeal
19:20 < jml2> M2 comes in sata form , what you sayin?
19:21 < pyagpie> msata, m2 whatever
19:21 < pyagpie> that tiny stick
19:21 < iqubic> So, how does one change the appearance of the X Org Cursor.
19:21 < pyagpie> or wait
19:21 < jml2> iqubic, you mean like a mac beach ball?
19:21 < iqubic> the default cursor is so ugly.
19:21 < iqubic> yeah.
19:22 < jml2> iqubic, take a sticky note, cut it in a circle and stick it on ya screen
19:22 < pyagpie> oh I guess I could do pci-e
19:22 < jml2> iqubic, lol
19:22 < pyagpie> hmm
19:22 < pyagpie> but still let's stick with not buying anything
19:22 < pyagpie> that sucks
19:22 < iqubic> I've seen images online where people have fancy mouse cursors. I want to get a fancy cursor like that.
19:22 < pyagpie> why
19:23 < Maxxed> maybe this is a silly question, but im working on a agent that is to be installed on various boxes.. should i stick it in /usr/local/ or /opt ?
19:23 < jml2> Maxxed, /opt is I think more for third party
19:23 < Maxxed> i dont think im going to use any package managers cuz im planning to use TUF
19:23 < jml2> Maxxed, /usr/local though is equally as serving
19:23 < HyP3r> Short Question to SSH TCP Tunnels: I have my computer and another computer behind a NAT Firewall. Now I want to create a tunnel over my Server. Then I want to start a program on the target computer which is connecting tho the server and then ends on my computer
19:24 < jml2> Maxxed, package managers dont use /usr/local
19:24 < HyP3r> But how?
19:24 < Maxxed> well, its kind of 3rd party, its going to be a SaaS offering, an agent needs to be installed on the clients/hosts
19:24 < jml2> Maxxed, some package managers dump things in /opt/<just this subdirectory for package X>
19:24 < jml2> Maxxed, like google chrome
19:24 < HyP3r> I guess I have to run ssh on my computer and connect to the server, so the server is listening for incoming connections which are ending on my computer
19:24 < Maxxed> im leaning to /opt/mypath at the moment
19:24 < neoncortex> I really like the Adwaita cursor theme, not too shiny, not too boring ..
19:24 < Maxxed> i dont think /usr/local would be ideal for this sorta thing
19:24 < jml2> Maxxed, still /opt is used for this, I use it for throwing in oracle's java in there..
19:24 < jml2> Maxxed, (eclipse ide)
19:24 < Maxxed> just looking for thoughts :)
19:25 < Maxxed> cool
19:25 < iqubic> neoncortex: How did you get that set up?
19:25 < jml2> Maxxed, good either way
19:25 < stevendale> Hi \o/
19:25 < Maxxed> right on, i think im going to stck with opt.. this will be used on hpux, solaris, aix, as well as linux.. /opt is prob my best bet
19:25 < noodlepie>  /usr/local for manually installed stuff. /opt is usually managed by the package manager. Make a folder for your application in /usr/local and put the source tarball zip in /usr/local/src. Symlink from /usr/local/bin/YourNewCommandName to /usr/local/MyPackageName/bin/startapp. Then all is tidy and maintainable.
19:25 < iqubic> neoncortex: How did you get the adwaita cursors on your machine?
19:26 < Maxxed> noodlepie, sounds good, but im going to avoid package managers
19:26  * jml2 https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/file-hierarchy.html
19:26 < jml2> Maxxed, ^
19:26 < sauvin> Speaking as an Ubuntu and Debian user, I've never seen the package manager do anything with /opt
19:26 < neoncortex> iqubic: It came by default in Debian, it's the default cursor of Gnome, anyway, you can set it using something like lxappearance
19:26 < Maxxed> distribute via script and use the TUF to manage updates outside the pkg managers
19:26 < bls> Maxxed: or rather than manually doing the install/clean-up, check out GNU stow
19:27 < Maxxed> oh this looks neat, thx for pointing this out bls
19:27 < Maxxed> idk if it will apply directly to my project, but it def looks neat
19:27 < jml2> Maxxed, http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES
19:27 < Maxxed> i always like finding neat utils like this :)
19:28 < bls> install: `./configure --prefix=/usr/local/stow/projname; cd /usr/local/stow; stow projname` vs uninstall: `cd /usr/local/stow; stow -D projname; rm -fr projname`
19:28 < triceratux> Maxxed: personally im gravitating away from /opt & /usr/local & towards /lib/<provider>/<project> which is sort of an intermediary for delivering bolted on subsystems. systemd seems to get away with it
19:28 < iqubic> neoncortex: isn't there a way to set-up cursors using only .XResources or something.
19:28 < iqubic> I don't want to install a customization program just for this one thing.
19:28 < neoncortex> iqubic: probably, but I never did this
19:29 < iqubic> Besides, I'm using i3 as a stand alone WM.
19:29 < neoncortex> iqubic: I'm using i3 too
19:29 < jml2> triceratux, systemd's advanced filesystem hier suggestions are much more complex.. ( https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/file-hierarchy.html )
19:29 < iqubic> Oh. So how do you set your cursors?
19:29 < neoncortex> with lxappearance =D
19:29 < jml2> triceratux, has ~/. things ... allowing for user-space definitions for install, etc..
19:30 < neoncortex> it have few dependencies, lightweight, does not hurt to install it
19:30 < triceratux> jml2: yep im well acquainted with that stuff. i stay out of their way
19:30 < iqubic> did you installl lxappearance just to change your mouse cursor?
19:30 < bls> ...wants eye candy, tools to manage eye candy are too much bloat... :|
19:30 < jml2> iqubic, probably you can change your cursor with an agnostic DE tool
19:31 < neoncortex> iqubic: It controls Gtk in general, icons, themes, etc
19:31 < triceratux> jml2: why isnt fedora 28 using systemd-resolved yet ? why would they create such a functionality & then leave it up to canonical to put it into production ?
19:31 < iqubic> jml2: I'd rather just do this manually, and skip the downloading of things.
19:32 < noodlepie> Maxxed, you couldn't do better than trying GUIX-SX, the GnU package manager, it install Gentoo, its manual install from tarball and manual configure but it helps you learn, and it builds packages from source so they are optimized for your machine specifically
19:32  * triceratux thinks red space hat is colluding with shuttleworth
19:32 < bls> iqubic: if you insist on hard mode, see https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Cursor_themes
19:33 < noodlepie> It, Gentoo, uses a portage app called emerge to download source from mirror and build, compile settings are all alterable to get the most out of your 8thread i7 laptop, like mine.
19:33 < Maxxed> good suggestion but im trying to make this thing as zero dependency as possible, so stow or any other pkg manager stuff im trying to avoid
19:33 < Maxxed> thx for the pointers though :)
19:33 < toothe> weird, running dpkg's stderr isn't redirecting to /dev/null
19:33 < toothe> I'm running 2>/dev/null
19:33 < ayecee> neat
19:34 < toothe> got it!
19:34 < ayecee> \o/
19:34 < noodlepie> I would sat the simples OS distro to usewith only your own packages is Slackware, it uses tarballs to install and this can be bypassed easily.
19:34 < bls> Maxxed: fair enough, but it's a pretty dumb utility. you could emulate the technique with a carefully crafted find command
19:35 < Maxxed> and if we deploy this in a docker container that does not have find? ;)
19:35 < jml2> iqubic, you might find hints about it here if you otherwise are using a rare desktop - https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Cursor_themes
19:35 < Maxxed> but yeah, i hear ya, that would do also
19:35 < bls> ah, you're that stripped down
19:35 < Maxxed> million ways to skin a cat
19:35 < Maxxed> zero dependency, single static bin with a config, log file, lock.pid
19:35 < jml2> triceratux, fedora 28 doesnt come with sytstemd-resolved? that's weird
19:36 < noodlepie> Seriously though, you should check out Gentoo (http://www.gentoo.org./) as you practically, literally build your own packages from source, its like self mintaining them but package settings are managed in a really useful way.
19:36 < bls> you can build your own packages from source on any distro though
19:36 < jml2> triceratux, i think you're lying!
19:36 < noodlepie> It, Gentoo, flies on my 8thread i7 laptop.
19:36 < jml2> triceratux, i bet if you install it it would come with it
19:36 < triceratux> jml2: like most systemd distros its compiled & available. but theyre not doint the 127.0.0.53 dance by any means, at least not on their conventional desktops
19:37 < triceratux> jml2: & yep i installed f28 yesterday to be sure. its all the blogs say it is
19:38 < jml2> triceratux, i'll be able to try it out in 2 minutes XD https://imgur.com/a/5qs21XU
19:38 < jml2> triceratux, pretty sure it would come with systemd-resolved when installed
19:38 < jml2> triceratux, :p lol
19:40 < jml2> booting and trying it right now
19:40 < jml2> triceratux, but it should be avail..
19:40 < triceratux> jml2: https://paste.opensuse.org/29607938 yes its available in f28
19:41 < jml2> still I also want to be trying latest fedora, getting lots of buzz
19:41 < jml2> wonder what's so fancy about ti
19:41 < triceratux> they improved the seamlessness of the 3rd party repos without compromising their legal position as proponents of free software
19:43 < jml2> should be installed in 2 minutes
19:45 < jml2> triceratux, what's it called again the community or 3rd party repos?
19:45 < jml2> triceratux, rawhide?
19:46 < jml2> ah fusion and livna
19:46 < jml2> nice a kde redhat project repository
19:46 < triceratux> jml2: rawhide is fedora rolling. they made it easier to get to nvidia & a handful of other stuff
19:49 < triceratux> jml2: id be running f28 right now if swagarch & voyager & todays altlinux sisyphus werent so solid. it seemed more robust than bionic
19:50 < pyagpie> i plan to install arch on my desktop
19:50 < pyagpie> constructive critique
19:50 < iopq> Ubuntu can't detect my second monitor connected to onboard graphics, my main monitor is on an AMD gpu
19:50 < pyagpie> pls
19:50 < iopq> but when I reboot I can see that it's working
19:50 < DrowningElysium> Hey I am looking to install a ubuntu 16.04.04 LTS server with LEMP and have something in place that helps me ease up setting up websites. Is there a tutorial for this?
19:50 < bls> pyagpie: have fun
19:50 < DrowningElysium> Things like cPanel and ISPConfig were just a pain in the but
19:51 < jml2> iopq, usually it not the distro but something with kernel settings, gfx module, etc..
19:51 < jml2> iopq, a lot of users make this mistake..
19:51 < iopq> jml2: it used to work
19:51 < bls> DrowningElysium: https://github.com/EbookFoundation/free-programming-books/blob/master/free-programming-books.md#linux
19:51 < jml2> iopq, try using the amd/catalyst graphics driver instead of the opensource one
19:51 < iopq> jml2: good idea
19:51 < iopq> let me try
19:52 < jml2> DrowningElysium, LEMP or LAMP ? lol
19:52 < DrowningElysium> Well the one with nginx
19:52 < jml2> iopq, use the one that is packaged from restricted
19:52 < DrowningElysium> I don't like apache
19:52 < jml2> DrowningElysium, that's outright racist!
19:52 < bls> you mean BNPP? BSD, Nginx, PostgreSQL, and Python?
19:52 < DrowningElysium> Nah that is just personal preference
19:53 < DrowningElysium> Well let's first start with a PHP server and later on add other types
19:53 < skoup> hello
19:53 < iopq> jml2: hmm? how would I install the proprietary driver without messing everything up? (last time I messed everything up)
19:53 < skoup> what e-mail server program would you recommend for a beginner?
19:53 < jml2> i have to try MEAN one day ..mongodb, express.js, react.js, node.j
19:54 < jml2> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solution_stack)
19:54 < iopq> jml2: gross
19:54 < bls> skoup: I'd recommend you not bother trying to do your own email first, then postfix
19:54 < jml2> always want to try mongodb in some way
19:54 < jml2> iopq, use the one that is recommened from the update window
19:54 < jml2> iopq, i dont have amd, but i do see such suggestions with the nvidia driver
19:55 < DrowningElysium> jml2: why does nginx stacks miss there?
19:55 < bls> skoup: or check out owncloud
19:55 < skoup> thanks bls
19:56 < absurdistani> skoup, there's not really a good one besides the traditional email stack (postfix/dovecot + friends)
19:57 < absurdistani> skoup, that's not really a task for a novice though. sysadmins with 20 years of experience hate managing email servers
19:57 < bls> skoup: although it looks like owncloud might have dropped the email configs
19:57 < jml2> skoup, easier to go with hosting provider-- because as you know email only works well if you have dns setup correctly :)
19:57 < absurdistani> skoup, https://workaround.org/ispmail/stretch
19:58 < jml2> fedora using kernel 4.16 that's good
19:58 < bls> absurdistani: what's the success rate of that guide at getting email in gmail users' inboxes?
19:59 < absurdistani> bls, not sure. it's not my guide. it is a relatively good/complete guide though, and it attemtps to explain how email works along the way
20:00 < absurdistani> i did already state that email isn't something for a novice to attempt though
20:00 < skoup> hey it is an assignment :)
20:01 < skoup> i will try
20:01 < bls> absurdistani: fair enough and wasn't trying to argue with you. was going to bookmark it for possibly handing out as well, but the gmail thing is something people really care about that I see missing from most of these guides. they get you through the initial install of everything but no help troubleshooting that
20:01 < jml2> triceratux, i have to do ctl-alt-f4 to get to the plain terminal for fedora lol
20:01 < iqubic> Anyone know if there a WM angostic appearance altering tool?
20:02 < iqubic> wouldn't that be a TTY?
20:02 < triceratux> jml2: sounds like a gnome thing. you didnt download the xfce spin ?
20:02 < bls> alter the appearance of what?
20:02 < iqubic> well, I want to change the look of my cursor mainly.
20:02 < bls> every graphics toolkit, window manager, and in some cases application has its own settings and ways to make them
20:03 < absurdistani> i mean, for gmail and friends you really just need to have SPF records properly set
20:03 < zenix_2k2> one question, is there anyhow i can add taskbar icons of my own program ? like that leaf icon of "leafpad"
20:03 < bls> iqubic: did you read the guide you were given by me and jml2?
20:03 < iqubic> The arch wiki entry?
20:03 < absurdistani> it does have a section on DKIM and SPF: 2018-03-01 – added a page about DKIM signing, SPF and DMARC
20:03 < bls> absurdistani: some people are that lucky, some do correct SPF, DKIM, and MX and still end up marked as spam
20:04 < jml2> iqubic, yeah the arch wiki mentions the xdg spec -- xdg is DE agnostic
20:04 < r1ppa> trying to logrotate Apache audit logs in /var/log/mlog2waffle/data, but my script is failing I suppose because I see nothing compressed. Anyone have a script example?
20:04 < absurdistani> bls, ah
20:04 < jml2> triceratux, they still stick avahi in there
20:04 < iqubic> Yeah, but that requires editing text files in a way I don't quite understand.
20:04 < absurdistani> bls, I would imagine that they may be in a DC that has some one sending spam, and/or using an IP that was recycled from a previous spammer :/
20:05 < jml2> triceratux, i hate avahi i disable whenever possible, also intoxicates /etc/nsswitch.conf
20:05 < jml2> triceratux, mdns
20:05 < absurdistani> bls, in that case, you just have to go to the various blacklisters and request a removal :(
20:05 < triceratux> jml2: ah zeroconf zealots
20:05 < bls> absurdistani: likely so, we see a lot of people trying to run SMTP servers on their residential, dynamic IP
20:05 < iqubic> So first I should edit the index.theme file, and then edit the settings.ini file? Is that the right set of steps?
20:06 < jml2> triceratux, it looks better on fedora here-- by default it is hosts: files dns and then something else
20:06 < jml2> triceratux, i always want "files dns"  -- so that does /etc/hosts and then nss-dns
20:06 < absurdistani> bls, you could dyndns that, but I would definitely not recommend that for an email server
20:06 < jml2> triceratux, (man nss-<>  -- gives info on about this)
20:06 < iqubic> Or can I just modify .XResource? Will that also change my cursor's look?
20:06 < absurdistani> bls, cuz while possible, you're just going to be forever fighting with something you would realistically wish to be able to rely upon
20:07 < triceratux> jml2: i did all the nss reading last week. never heard of it before. incredible that the internet relies on a gnu hack of that type
20:07 < bls> absurdistani: exactly. hence the line of questioning if the guide covered those topics before I read the whole thing
20:07 < iqubic> err. .Xresources
20:07 < n-iCe> hello guys, any know a software where I can draw some lines and convert them to dxf ? so I can send it to laser cut?
20:07 < jml2> triceratux, you should
20:08 < jml2> triceratux, because that is how your system does hostname resolving
20:08 < absurdistani> triceratux, the internet relies on mostly outdated software that is improperly configured, inadequately provisioned, and typically hacked together hastily.
20:08 < triceratux> no merde mario ;)
20:09 < iqubic> jml2: Am I correct in the methods I am planning to use to edit my cursor's look?
20:10 < absurdistani> after working at a few web hosting companies, I am now just absolutely terrified for the world... like any day now, someone is going to find some exploit that just pwns everything and he/she will just turn off the world
20:10 < jml2> triceratux, "hosts: files dns"  -- means , if your app wants an ip for "google.com" ,  /etc/hosts tells the system ("files") it is not there, so then "dns"  (the "nameserver" thing in  /etc/resolv.conf) is then used..
20:11 < bls> ...like database software that ships with an open port and default password? or programming languages that make it easier to *not* validate user input? hehe
20:11 < jml2> triceratux, if you want to by-pass /etc/hosts with a command -- you can use nslookup and dig
20:12 < jml2> triceratux, if you use a tool like "ping"  it it asking gethost*/nsswitch (the "system") to use the nsswitch "hosts" entry
20:12 < jml2> triceratux, (the "hosts: " line)
20:12 < jml2> triceratux, this is why it is better to use nslookup or dig to perform "dns-only" tests..
20:12 < jml2> triceratux, (as in "true dns" -- bypassing /etc/hosts)
20:13 < absurdistani> or even better just dig @8.8.8.8 whatever.com
20:13 < jml2> triceratux, ( so don't use ping to test dns )
20:13 < triceratux> jml2: & test dns we must. i became quite a dig user last week as well
20:13 < jml2> also one should use "-n" with tcpdump to create unnecessary hostname lookups..
20:14 < jml2> (tcpdump would try to use dns by it's own curiousness to present ip numbers as hostnames)
20:14 < jml2> ^ and that confuses new users
20:14 < jml2> (like a catch-22 -- when trying to see if dns is working XD)
20:19 < SmashingX> http://pastebin.centos.org/731636/
20:19 < SmashingX> Why?!
20:19 < Psi-Jack> Because!
20:20 < Psi-Jack> Don't just pastebin something, paste a link, and give 0 context. Say SOMETHING about it, then the URL.
20:20 < SmashingX> ok sorry
20:21 < SmashingX> so the line that is complaining in sudoers file is this one: includedir /etc/sudoers.d
20:21 < Psi-Jack> You added that sampleuser file to that path, I presume. Likely have a syntax error in it knowing our past discussions.
20:22 < hexnewbie> SmashingX: It tells you why. Also, includedir is not valid sudo syntax. It needs to be a comment.
20:22 < SmashingX> I just uncommented that line
20:22 < Psi-Jack> ^
20:22 < jane_booty_doe> What would cause `screen -r <tab>` to not autocomplete?
20:22 < Psi-Jack> SmashingX: Wrong.
20:22 < Psi-Jack> It's supposed to be #includedir, not includedir
20:22 < hexnewbie> SmashingX: It's actually an #includedir directive, not a comment.
20:23 < zack6849> jane_booty_doe: is it supposed to? I didn't know that was a thing
20:23 < Psi-Jack> jane_booty_doe: No auto completion rules.
20:23 < jane_booty_doe> zack6849, it should list the output of -x if you don't put in a name. it will autocomplete if you put in the partial name
20:23 < jane_booty_doe> Psi-Jack, okay ill look into that
20:23 < SmashingX> so #includedir is getting read then?
20:23 < phogg> jane_booty_doe: command autocompletion is controlled entirely by your shell's loaded autocomplete rules. If there arent' any or if the rules for that command are not loaded or incorrect you will get no completion,.
20:23 < hexnewbie> SmashingX: Yes
20:23 < Psi-Jack> SmashingX: Yes.
20:24 < Psi-Jack> hexnewbie: Good catch BTW. :)
20:24 < Psi-Jack> I think many moons ago, I once "uncommented" that line too, and soon realized, that's not how it works. :)
20:25 < SmashingX> knowing our past discussions
20:25 < SmashingX> please add “
20:25 < mawk> “”
20:25 < hexnewbie> Syntax error: Unmatched “
20:26 < SmashingX> so when the I try to use “sudo apachectl stop” with the sampleuser I get this error: usr/sbin/apachectl: line 105: /usr/sbin/httpd: Permission denied
20:26 < SmashingX> but I added this line to the /etc/sudoers.d/sampleuser:
20:26 < Psi-Jack> SmashingX: wut?
20:26 < Psi-Jack> please add wut?
20:26 < SmashingX> sampleuser ALL=(root)      NOEXEC:/usr/sbin/apachectl
20:27 < SmashingX> is that syntax correct?
20:27 < hexnewbie> SmashingX: It's NOEXEC. apachectl won't be able to execute httpd
20:27 < Psi-Jack> heh
20:27 < Psi-Jack> SmashingX: Seriously, what do you mean by the "please add" statement?
20:27 < jane_booty_doe> phogg, Psi-Jack turns out i needed the bash-completion package
20:28 < Psi-Jack> jane_booty_doe: That could do it. For a bash user.
20:28 < FruitySoap> hi
20:28 < FruitySoap> what DE you would recommend for full fledged DE
20:28 < SmashingX> hexnewbie: so do I have to point it to httpd?
20:28 < FruitySoap> I think there are only 2
20:28 < FruitySoap> GNOME or KDE
20:28 < Psi-Jack> The one YOU want to use.
20:28 < trifesleuth> cde
20:28 < triceratux> FruitySoap: xfce is the only hope
20:28 < nrg> xfce for lyf
20:29 < SmashingX> Psi-Jack: I meant please add that sign to my previous statement
20:29 < FruitySoap> xfce doesnt have compositor... also it doesnt auto connect monitors.. it will be like a WM
20:29 < FruitySoap> with a panel lol
20:29 < Psi-Jack> Gnome, KDE, MATE, Cinnamon, XFCE, LXDE, LXQT... Did I miss one?
20:29 < hexnewbie> SmashingX: Well, apachectl is unlikely to call sudo, although you may be able to override */httpd  with a wrapper script that does
20:29 < Psi-Jack> SmashingX: For?
20:29 < FruitySoap> they are not full featured. Psi-Jack
20:29 < jml2> FruitySoap, mate mint here, happy with it on debian..
20:29 < FruitySoap> mint? or debian?
20:29 < trifesleuth> no icon editors
20:29 < Psi-Jack> FruitySoap: Pardon?
20:29 < SmashingX> Psi-Jack: ugh, nevermind
20:29 < solidfox> tolerating kde here
20:29 < solidfox> its most tolerable to me
20:30 < jml2> FruitySoap, you can install different DE on your distro of choice
20:30 < Psi-Jack> SmashingX: Just trying to better understand what you were on about.
20:30 < trifesleuth> no font editors
20:30 < absurdistani> "full fledged"? KDE
20:30 < jml2> FruitySoap, if you want mint out of the box, I woudl suggest "ubuntumate"
20:30 < SmashingX> Psi-Jack: your comments, that’s all
20:30 < triceratux> FruitySoap: dont know about monitors but for the record xfce has its own compositor & can even be used with 3rd party compositors
20:30 < jml2> FruitySoap, ("ubuntumate" is not the "ubuntu iso" -- and is a familar distro to ubuntu users)
20:30 < FruitySoap> no offense but why cant linux have one stable and decent (full featured without bugs) DE. just like its competitors such as w10 or macos
20:30 < jml2> FruitySoap, it does
20:30 < Psi-Jack> SmashingX: You're not making any sense.
20:31 < nrg> idk that id call win10 decent
20:31 < SmashingX> Psi-Jack: ok then nevermind
20:31 < triceratux> ubuntumate 16.04.4 no less
20:31 < trifesleuth> i blame gpu drivers
20:31 < jml2> FruitySoap, today i tried neon-kde -- it basically is "ubunut" with kde as a default DE --- there's also "kubuntu"
20:31 < jml2> FruitySoap, if you want a "Full fledged" desktop of "KDE plasma" I would suggest "Kubuntu"
20:31 < hexnewbie> FruitySoap: Enlightenment
20:31 < Psi-Jack> SmashingX: Were you trying to add "corrections" to something that was already perfectly correct?
20:31 < jml2> FruitySoap, and I don't mind saying Kubuntu is decent, because it is :p
20:32 < hexnewbie> FruitySoap: Not sure if it is full featured, but it looks like a spaceship, so one will never be able to tell
20:32 < FruitySoap> jml2: no thanks. KDE gives more headaches than Gnome 3
20:32 < triceratux> FruitySoap: because linux is a dialectic without the synthesis. competing camps resulting in fragmentation, & the only perceived solution being even more fragmentation. finally the true gurus have to give up & go headless
20:33 < SmashingX> Psi-Jack: what?!
20:33 < FruitySoap> triceratux: +1
20:33 < SmashingX> Psi-Jack: now you are not making any sense
20:33 < absurdistani> FruitySoap, I would recommend KDE neon, Solus, or elementary if you are really wanting that "desktop experience"
20:33 < jml2> FruitySoap, maybe it's too complex for you XD
20:33 < absurdistani> otherwise, I recommend Slackware + i3
20:33 < jml2> FruitySoap, curious, what is so hard to use KDE ? :)
20:33 < FruitySoap> btw I tried ubuntu 18.04. not really bug free tbh
20:33 < jml2> absurdistani, yeah I told him neon
20:33 < FruitySoap> LTS doesnt mean anything these days it seems
20:34 < jim> FruitySoap, why not pick one and try it out? what dist are you running?
20:34 < BluesKaj> triceratux, who cares about gurus :-)
20:34 < FruitySoap> jml2: its buggy.
20:34 < jml2> i can only see 1 repository for neon
20:34 < koala_man> FruitySoap: weird. I consider the w10 and macos WMs really subpar compared to X11 wms like i3
20:34 < FruitySoap> jim: I am on arch. tried many. always return to the least worst distro
20:34 < jml2> FruitySoap, then use those distros that are "specialized" to support it as a default desktop
20:34 < jml2> FruitySoap, that's why you have those other distros
20:34 < DrowningElysium> Well LTS is just for longer time support so not bug free :P
20:34 < absurdistani> FruitySoap, and new releases of Windows 10 and macOS are what? bug free??? LOLOLOLOLOLOL
20:34 < Psi-Jack> Newbie using Arch alert, Newbie using Arch alert.
20:34 < hexnewbie> jml2: KDE is buggy on all distros.
20:34 < Psi-Jack> heh
20:34 < DrowningElysium> But well they do recommend waiting for the 18.04.01 update
20:34 < jml2> hexnewbie, not for me
20:35 < jml2> hexnewbie, I use ubuntumate on other workstations (for other users) -- never have a complaint
20:35 < FruitySoap> Psi-Jack: loool
20:35 < hexnewbie> jml2: Ubuntu Mate with KDE?
20:35 < absurdistani> hexnewbie, not buggy on Slackware :)
20:35 < jml2> he's asking for any suggestions regarding a "full fledge" desktop -- what he's after is his own preference
20:36 < Psi-Jack> jml2: And somehow other's aren't "full fledged".
20:36 < jml2> hexnewbie, I installed neon today.. ran without a hick
20:36 < Psi-Jack> No hicks! What a trajesty!
20:37 < jml2> hexnewbie, and kubuntu has been around for a good number of years! I don't use buy have tested it and i regard it very stable (used on and off)
20:37 < hexnewbie> jml2: I also learned to navigate the bugs well enough so I don't drive into them. :p
20:39 < znh> anyone experience with huawei 3g modems? are they generally well supported?
20:39 < znh> tried a search for the exact model but couldnt find my answer
20:39 < Psi-Jack> znh: I see people asking about that brand of 3g modem all the time with problems.
20:40 < Psi-Jack> What that means specifically? Maybe it's hit/miss as to whether they work or not, or that they have a bad rep for not working so well? Not sure.
20:42 < znh> Psi-Jack: mmm
20:43 < Psi-Jack> FINALLY got my vxlan working, so far flawlessly.
20:44 < Psi-Jack> What a mess of rstp. :)
20:44 < absurdistani> one would imagine that they were well supported seeing as Huawei ships with android
20:44 < r1ppa> I cannot get logrotate to rotate /var/log/mlog2waffle/data/*/*/* files are there but dry run skips em, halp pls
20:44 < absurdistani> maybe you need to do a kernel build with it enabled?
20:44 < Psi-Jack> absurdistani: "ships with android?"
20:44 < Psi-Jack> That, by itself, makes no sense. :)
20:45 < Psi-Jack> Or do you mean, they have Android ON them, as their OS?
20:45 < absurdistani> psi-jack, I mean like, Huawei devices are typically pre-installed with Android as the OS
20:46 < backnforth> Hi, I'm trying to run: find -name "Me*" *, and I get a message saying: "paths must precede expression".
20:46 < absurdistani> backnforth, try find / -name "Me*"
20:46 < jml2> backnforth, remove the last *
20:47 < jml2> backnforth, by default find starts from the current folder position
20:47 < jml2> backnforth, if you want to specify anywher, you can do   -> find <absolute path> +other things
20:48 < backnforth> thanks absurdistani, that worked
20:48 < backnforth> jml2,  I tried removing the last * and it still didn't work
20:49 < backnforth> I appreciate the extra info though
20:49 < jml2> then your find implementation wants to have a path defined
20:49 < jml2> it should be doing "." by default
20:49 < backnforth> agreed
20:49 < mawk> why doesn't fail2ban use ipsets instead of adding one rule per banned ip like a dummy ?
20:50 < hexnewbie> mawk: I think you can make it use ipsets. Doesn't it let you specify the exact ban and unban commands? As to why, probably because it *is* dummy.
20:51 < mawk> yeah it lets me specify the commands, I was just wondering that for the performance
20:54 < r1ppa> anyone here run logrotate again Apache audit logs? mlog2waffle
21:07 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: Are you just polling, or do you have a real question?
21:08 < coderman1> what would an iptables command look like to limit a specific IP address to say 1 conection per second?
21:09 < zack6849> o.0
21:09 < zack6849> can iptables...even do that?
21:10 < r1ppa> Psi-Jack, real question, logrotate and mlog2waffle not happening, its me of course but where am I going wrong lol
21:10 < zack6849> coderman1: https://making.pusher.com/per-ip-rate-limiting-with-iptables/ maybe give this a look
21:10 < bipul> What this message mean? "tar: Removing leading `/' from member names"
21:11 < bls> r1ppa: you're not giving anyone much to go on. would help if you could supply your config files, the commands you're running, your expected outputs, and the outputs you're actually getting
21:11 < zack6849> bipul: it means your filenames started with a slash and it didnt let it do that and extract to the root directory
21:11 < zack6849> it forced a relative path
21:11 < Psi-Jack> r1ppa: I'd say.... Incorrect logrotation config.
21:11 < r1ppa> Psi-Jack, uhuh?
21:12 < r1ppa> bls, https://paste2.org/3MCW7O0J
21:12 < r1ppa> thanks
21:12 < bipul> Well but i would like to archive the redmine directory. So i have used tar -czf "$name-redmine" /home/bipul/rails_apps/redmine
21:12 < bls> I know nothing about those programs, that was just a general hint for actually getting help
21:12 < r1ppa> oh the peanut gallery, ok thanks
21:13 < r1ppa> can someone fault my logrotate config, mlog2waffle dry runs just skip over the data directory, config: https://paste2.org/3MCW7O0J
21:14 < bls> r1ppa: also, #httpd might be of assistance
21:14 < r1ppa> nope
21:14 < r1ppa> he yelled at me
21:14 < r1ppa> logrotate seems straight forward enough, but admittedly I do not use it
21:15 < r1ppa> read for an hour or so, meh, not complicated but damn I cannot get it to recognize the mlog2waffle files as logs...or even see them
21:16 < r1ppa> it seems to love *.log files, but if its not a .log, it should still see the file
21:17 < coderman1> zack, following along with that site ive now got this in my iptables: :INPUT ACCEPT [102382:14345519] :FORWARD ACCEPT [0:0] :OUTPUT ACCEPT [96755:25541413] :RATE-LIMIT - [0:0] -A RATE-LIMIT -s 13.59.151.68/32 -m limit --limit 10/min --limit-burst 20 -j ACCEPT -A RATE-LIMIT -j DROP
21:18 < coderman1> but it doesnt appear to have affected the limit
21:23 < coderman1> im trying to limit 1 particular IP from posting too quickly to my webserver. so im not sure if this should be done in nginx or in iptables. im not sure if iptables "connections" is going to have any effect if they keep the connection open and keep posting
21:24 < zack6849> coderman1: probably easier if you use the webserver but even still im not sure either is the appropriate location for it instead of application limiting
21:28 < bls> coderman1: have you looked over http://lartc.org/lartc.html#LARTC.RATELIMIT.SINGLE or anything else on using tc?
21:37 < littlebean> anyone know why otr isn't showing up in pidgins plugins?
21:37 < littlebean> manjaro distro
21:38 < bls> maybe ask the manjaro channel
21:38 < MrPockets> Word
21:38 < littlebean> thanks
21:38 < bls> they may package it separately
21:46 < Celmor> what's process state T?
21:46 < bipul> Terminate.
21:47 < Celmor> process doesn't seem to terminate though
21:47 < Celmor> or be able to get killed
21:48 < kremator> Celmor, kill it with root user and -9
21:52 < Celmor> that worked
21:52 < Celmor> still wondering why my terminal spawned so many bash procoesses
21:54 < bls> infinite loop in a script / dotfile? buggy program
21:54 < kremator> Celmor, mmm, which terminal emulator do you use?
21:54 < bls> really doubt it's your terminal that did it
21:54 < Celmor> gnome-terminal, other terminal windows are fine
21:54 < Celmor> https://ptpb.pw/6zg0
21:54 < bls> if you see it again, you can use pstree to find out what program is actually starting them all
21:54 < kremator> bls, im just discarding stuff, you never knows when someone is running that 1337 emulator from a dark github erpository
21:55 < uplime> bls: could be a buggy terminal emulator that spawned a bunch of login shells
21:59 < neoncortex> it depends on how you use your terminal also, if I tun ps aux | grep bash I'll get at least 15 lines xD
22:00 < neoncortex> #run
22:00 < meyou> tfw you only get one line, and it's the grep process
22:01 < bls> that doesn't mean it's the terminal launching all those processes though
22:01 < neoncortex> $ ps aux | grep bash | wc -l
22:01 < neoncortex> 17
22:02 < neoncortex> bls: because tmux, mostly
22:03 < GunqqerFriithian> So I recently installed KDE plasma, and now when I login I get a  white rectagle in the top right 1/4 of the screen which lasts ~30 sec  then dissaperas. Notifications and stuff still pop up, I still have a  mouse, and still can open stuff with shotcuts/ alt+f2. When launching  plasmashell from the CLI the same box appears, and then vanishes. It  seems plasmashell is crashing.
22:04 < GunqqerFriithian> It crashes after "QSGSimpleMaterialShader does not implement 'uniform highp mat4 qt_Matrix;' in its vertex shader
22:04 < GunqqerFriithian> after that it has "KCrash: Attempting to start /usr/bin/plasmashell from kdeinit"
22:04 < sklv> hi, i'm having some trouble with a basic networking config. I have a router 192.168.1.254 connected to a server 192.168.1.1 which has a 2nd NIC 192.168.1.11 connected to a windows machine 192.168.1.12. the windows machine and the server can ping each other, but the windows machine can't ping the router. the server is configured to forward traffic between the 2 interfaces. any ideas?
22:07 < bls> sklv: do you have a bridge setup?
22:08 < sklv> no
22:08 < sklv> i previously had a linux machine in place of the windows machine and it was able to access the rest of the network
22:10 < Sitri> sklv: static IPs?  Did you give the windows machine a route so it knows how to reach the router?
22:11 < sklv> i configured a route for it on the server, but not in the windows machine itself
22:11 < sklv> yes static IPs
22:11 < sklv> it looks like the route is what's missing
22:11 < Sitri> Is the server the windows machine's default route
22:12 < sklv> i'm not sure, i will go and find out. I've never had to configure routes in windows to get internet sharing previously
22:14 < Sitri> That's because the DHCP server usually provides that information
22:15 < sklv> right, that makes sense
22:22 < GunqqerFriithian> Any of you have experience with plasmashell?
22:23 < Psi-Jack> Are you polling, or do you have an actual question?
22:23 < GunqqerFriithian> actual question
22:23 < GunqqerFriithian> So I recently installed KDE plasma, and now when I login I get a white rectagle in the top right 1/4 of the screen which lasts ~30 sec then dissaperas. Notifications and stuff still pop up, I still have a mouse, and still can open stuff with shotcuts/ alt+f2. When launching plasmashell from the CLI the same box appears, and then vanishes. It seems plasmashell is crashing. It crashes after QSGSimpleMaterialShader does not imp
22:24 < GunqqerFriithian>  in its vertex shader. After that it has KCrash: Attempting to start /usr/bin/plasmashell from kdeinit
22:24 < GunqqerFriithian> pastebin of entire log: https://pastebin.com/FFETuV8d
22:24 < TheSov> does anyone know why LIO keeps deleting my iscsi targets?
22:25 < Psi-Jack> FYI: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
22:25 < Psi-Jack> TheSov: heh, because LIO is a PITA.
22:25 < GunqqerFriithian> well, here https://paste.linux.community/view/3d576ed5 is the non-pastebin
22:27 < GunqqerFriithian> anyone know anything that can help me?
22:27 < TheSov> Psi-Jack, recommend alternatives? i wouldnt mind a user space iSCSI-target
22:27 < Psi-Jack> TheSov: Distro?
22:27 < TheSov> ubuntu server
22:29 < Psi-Jack> Hmm.. Seems that RHEL switched from tgtd to LIO.
22:29 < TheSov> yeah everyone did
22:29 < TheSov> they pit LIO in kernel
22:30 < TheSov> I need an iscsi target that is multipath compatible
22:30 < TheSov> LIO seems to be the only one
22:31 < Psi-Jack> Well, how is it losing your targets?
22:32 < GunqqerFriithian> So no one knows anything about my problem? Or could help troubleshoot?
22:32 < Psi-Jack> GunqqerFriithian: It would seem that way.
22:32 < Psi-Jack> Perhaps try the KDE support channels?
22:33 < GunqqerFriithian> are there ones on freenode dedicated to KDE?
22:33 < Psi-Jack> Well, /msg alis help
22:33 < Psi-Jack> See for yourself. :)
22:33 < umairbalani> does kickstart file run in order from top to bottom?
22:35 < Psi-Jack> TheSov: Hmm? Also, why do you specifically need multi-path, just so I understand clearly.
22:35 < Psi-Jack> Naughty Naughty. Buffer overflow.
22:36 < TheSov> Psi-Jack, for more bandwidth, and for failover without stop traffic
22:36 < Psi-Jack> You can get that without multipath. ietd for example has this functionality.
22:37 < Psi-Jack> Though LIO's come a long way since i last used it. heh
22:37 < Psi-Jack> Its that ConfigFS that worries me. heh
22:37 < TheSov> well so far i tracked it down to this Failed to start LSB: The Linux SCSI Target service.
22:37 < TheSov> so now im trying to see whats causing that
22:38 < Psi-Jack> LSB? wuuuut?
22:38 < Psi-Jack> What version of Ubuntu is this?
22:38 < TheSov> Linux iscsi1 4.13.0-39-generic #44~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Thu Apr 5 16:43:10 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64
22:38 < d1zzle> umairbalani: kickstart file?
22:38 < Psi-Jack> 16.04, which sshould be using systemd.
22:38 < TheSov> it is
22:38 < Psi-Jack> LSB != systemd
22:39 < TheSov> i know its odd
22:39 < umairbalani> yes d1zzle
22:42 < d1zzle> umairbalani: I meant what is that?
22:45 < TheSov> if i install lsb will that break systemd?
22:45 < Psi-Jack> Usually just for compatability. systemd is integrally integrated into the system's init, amongst a few other things.
22:46 < TheSov> systemd is like a whole new beast to me, just I got init figured out
22:46 < umairbalani> d1zzle: it's used to automate linux installatoin
22:47 < Psi-Jack> TheSov: Maybe you can re-do it to systemd methods, correcting Ubuntu's wrong: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ISCSI_Target
22:50 < Psi-Jack> Guest5448: IRCing as the root user is bad, m'kay.
22:50 < kruug> I'm trying to run `resize2fs /dev/mapper/pve-data` but I get the error `Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/mapper/pve-data /r/n Couldn't find valid filesystem super-block`.  How do I fix this?
22:51 < Psi-Jack> What did you do prior to resize2fs, kruug ?
22:51 < kruug> Psi-Jack: lvresize
22:51 < meyou> what fs is it
22:52 < kruug> Linux LVM (8e)
22:52 < Psi-Jack> Growth or Shrink?
22:52 < kruug> growth
22:52 < Psi-Jack> LVM isn't a filesystem.
22:52 < kavity> Anyone have any recommendations for mp3 tag editors?
22:52 < kruug> lvm2?
22:52 < meyou> what's the filesystem of the lv
22:52 < Psi-Jack> lvm2 isn't a filesystem. Those are partition/volumes.
22:52 < meyou> xfs? ext4?
22:53 < Psi-Jack> kavity: Can I recommend not mp3? ;}
22:53 < bls> kavity: the tools packaged with id3lib make me the least angry
22:53 < kruug> meyou: how do I find the fs of the lv?
22:53 < hexnewbie> kavity: I use easytag, picard, and python
22:54 < meyou> fdisk -l /dev/mapper/pve-data
22:54 < meyou> err
22:54 < kruug> Does not say anything about filesystem
22:54 < kruug> Units, sector size, I/O size
22:54 < Psi-Jack> You seriously don't know what filesystem?
22:55 < kavity> Psi-Jack: Hehe, I have a 270GB of mp3 in fullalbums, and there's messed up tags, which have been annoying me for a LONG time, finally dcided I should do something about it.
22:55 < bls> you may have blown away your FS and LV
22:55 < kruug> Psi-Jack: I'm following a guide, and that's as far as I got
22:55 < Psi-Jack> ...
22:55 < meyou> kruug, is it currently mounted? "mount" will show you, or you can look in /etc/fstab
22:55 < kavity> Thanks people, I shall try your suggestions.
22:55 < kruug> meyou: not currently mounted
22:55 < Psi-Jack> Is it in fstab?
22:56 < hexnewbie> kavity: Picard can autofill tags from MusicBrainz. EasyTAG can mass edit, mass rename, fill automatically from filenames, or make filenames automatically from tags, etc.
22:56 < meyou> or you can just make the assumption and try xfs_growfs /dev/mapper/pve-data
22:56 < bls> kavity: just be sure to back up files before you edit them. there are lots of poorly written tools/libraries out there than can mangle/destroy your tags
22:56 < kruug> meyou: xfs_growfs didn't work either
22:56 < kruug> Psi-Jack: no
22:56 < Psi-Jack> How... Do you even mount this volume?
22:56 < meyou> welp
22:56 < kruug> alright...starting over from the beginning...
22:57 < kavity> bls: I have it all on a not so portable hard drive, and then I have this hard drive that comes with me everywhere that has it all. But thanks for the suggestion!
22:57 < kavity> hexnewbie: Awesome, sounds great.
22:57 < meyou> parted /dev/mapper/pve-data -l
22:58 < meyou> kruug, i don't know that that will help you, sounds like your guide is for a different FS than you have
22:58 < kruug> meyou: `parted: command not found`
22:58 < meyou> install it :p
22:58 < kruug> meyou: I'm working on setting up proxmox
22:58 < bls> learned from experience. most of the tag editing tools seem to be written by either dumb Americans that assume everything is ASCII and id3v1 only, or Europeans that assume everything is Latin1 and id3v2 only
22:59 < hexnewbie> kruug: Did someone else already suggest: file -s /dev/mapper/pve-data
22:59 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, I saw you in #proxmox, too. :0
22:59 < ayecee> he's following you!
22:59 < kruug> hexnewbie: yeah
22:59 < ayecee> run!
22:59  * Psi-Jack 's tenticles are everywhere.
23:00 < ayecee> i totally read a different word there
23:00 < rypervenche> kruug: It would actually be helpful if we had our "history" output, so we can see exactly what you did.
23:00 < ayecee> probably because of the i
23:00 < hexnewbie> portmanteau of tentacles and icicles?
23:00 < ayecee> yeah. icicles. that was what i was thinking of.
23:00 < meyou> presumable he has resized the LV successfully and now he just needs to find out what filesystem he has so he can grow it properly
23:00 < ayecee> >_>
23:01 < hexnewbie> kruug: And what's the output of ‘file -s /dev/mapper/pve-data’?
23:02 < bls> not even sure what guide he's following at this point. could be one of those "I wrote this guide giving the commands that worked (that I don't understand) after spending 4 hours on doing random things"
23:02 < kruug> hexnewbie: `symbolic link to ../dm-4`
23:02 < kruug> bls: https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Extending_Local_Container_Storage#Extend_the_Volume_Group
23:02 < hexnewbie> kruug: file -s /dev/dm-4
23:02 < kruug> hexnewbie: `/dev/dm-4: data`
23:02 < Psi-Jack> Wait, is pve-data a volume group?
23:03 < kruug> Psi-Jack: yes
23:03 < Psi-Jack> So, then... What are you trying to resize?
23:03 < bls> looks like that guide assumes ext3
23:03 < kavity> hexnewbie: Picard will make this a lot easier I think. Thanks a bunch!
23:03 < meyou> the guide shows you how to check what FS it is, and it's ext3 in their example
23:04 < kruug> Psi-Jack: `Only the Logical Volume now shows the new size:`  `But the filesystem does not reflect it:`  `Hence we need to update the file system with: resize2fs /dev/mapper/pve-data`
23:04 < Psi-Jack> kruug: pve-data in Proxmox is the VG initially created to house LV's for VMs. Do you have any VMs?
23:04 < meyou> but the guide is working on a mounted fs and they check with 'mount'
23:04 < kruug> Psi-Jack: not yet.
23:04 < Psi-Jack> So, again. WHAT are you trying to resize?
23:05 < kruug> Psi-Jack: I don't know...I'm following the guide.  I've explained this.
23:05 < cousin_luigi> Greetings.
23:05 < Psi-Jack> kruug: Stop.
23:05 < kruug> Psi-Jack: stopping
23:05 < Psi-Jack> kruug: You have nothing to resize.
23:05 < bls> the guide is written for people that have already set up and populated everything
23:05 < Psi-Jack> Except MAYBE the PV itself. That's it./
23:06 < kruug> bls: gotcha.  So it's bad documentation...got it.
23:06 < Psi-Jack> And that's only if you actually made the partition larger that houses the pve-data VG.
23:06 < Psi-Jack> kruug: No, it's fine documentation, jsut you have nothing for it.
23:06 < kruug> Psi-Jack: when I run `df -kh`, it either doesn't show `/dev/mapper/pve-data` or it shows a lower number than what I have.
23:07 < kruug> but the proxmox WebGUI shows the right size
23:07  * cousin_luigi is trying to switch to wayland but he has a problem. In short, is it conceivable to insert an equivalent of xbindkeys somewhere between the display server, kwin_wayland and libinput?
23:08 < Psi-Jack> kruug: pastebin the results (not to pastebin.com): echo PV-- ; pvs; echo VG-- ; vgs ; echo LV-- ; lvs
23:08 < kruug> Psi-Jack: `This page was last edited on 25 December 2015, at 16:11.`  Old documentation.
23:08 < Psi-Jack> Still relevant documentation.
23:09 < Psi-Jack> You're just blindly following it, from the sounds of it.
23:09 < kruug> Well, there was nothing telling me "This documentation is for people who already have this server in production" as opposed to "This is where you start after a fresh install"
23:09 < Psi-Jack> ...
23:09 < meyou> think of it more as a knowledge base
23:10 < meyou> and not a step by step tutorial
23:10 < TheSov> this is really infuriating
23:11 < ayecee> >:O
23:12 < TheSov> seriously i cant find my target is refusing to load when i reboot
23:12 < TheSov> why* not my
23:13 < ayecee> doesn't really change the outcome
23:14 < Psi-Jack> TheSov: So, it's losing your targets when you reboot?
23:14 < TheSov> yes
23:14 < Psi-Jack> I asked you how/when it's loosing it, but you never answered.
23:14 < Psi-Jack> Not really anyway. :p
23:14 < TheSov> https://paste.linux.community/view/730af6ab
23:14 < TheSov> thats my output
23:15 < TheSov> its not helpful at all
23:15 < kruug> Psi-Jack: https://paste.debian.net/1023002
23:15 < Psi-Jack> Did you save the targetctl configuration?
23:15 < TheSov> yes
23:15 < Psi-Jack> kruug: Okay. That's something. What did you resize?
23:15 < TheSov> its in /etc/target/scsi_target.lio
23:16 < kruug> Psi-Jack: I added sde1, sdf1, and sdh1 to the LV/VG
23:16 < Psi-Jack> Not /etc/target/saveconfig.json?
23:16 < TheSov> no
23:17 < Psi-Jack> kruug: You add PV's to a VG, specifically. You're doing spanning? This isn't for production is it?
23:17 < bls> are you ensuring the target login is being attempted after the network is up?
23:17 < kruug> Psi-Jack: Not enterprise production.  This will be for my personal server.
23:18 < kruug> Psi-Jack: I'm going to be adding two more drives soon.  Another 500GB and a 1.0TB.
23:19 < TheSov> bls this is the target service not target login
23:19 < Psi-Jack> kruug: You realize in that setup, one drive failure will be pretty much total loss?
23:19 < TheSov> the target service isnt loading targets configured in it
23:20 < TheSov> the initiator isnt involved yet
23:20 < Psi-Jack> You mean the targets, not the initiator. :)
23:20 < kruug> Psi-Jack: like, lose the whole VG, not just what was on that one drive?
23:20 < bls> ah, OK. never dealt with linux as an iSCSI target, so I'll shut up
23:20 < TheSov> apparently LIO is so seldom used, theres not even a irc channel for it
23:20 < TheSov> ....
23:21 < Psi-Jack> So, what made you chose /etc/target/scsi_target.lio, specifically?
23:21 < TheSov> i didnt
23:21 < TheSov> thats what it did
23:21 < Psi-Jack> I see.
23:21 < bls> IRC channels tend to be for stuff where hobbyists and professionals overlap. not many hobbyists using iSCSI
23:22 < Psi-Jack> I dunno, personally. I've used iSCSI in all regards before, but LIO not so much.
23:22 < Psi-Jack> When you said LIO, I originally thought TGTD. heh
23:24 < TheSov> heres all the data i have regaurding the logs. https://paste.linux.community/view/366562ab   NONE OF IT HELPS
23:25 < revel> Do you guys think we'll see a 4.20 kernel release or will Torvalds go for 5.0 before then?
23:25 < TheSov> and then we wonder why linux hasnt taken over the world, we cant even get scsi targets to stick
23:26 < Psi-Jack> TheSov: journalctl -u target.service -n 1000 might be more useful. (maybe less lines than 1000, but you get the idea)
23:26 < bls> s/linux/you/g
23:26 < TheSov> Psi-Jack, journalctl has the same output
23:27 < TheSov> journalctl is logged to syslog
23:27 < Psi-Jack> Failed to load /etc/target/scsi_target.lio
23:27 < Psi-Jack> That is the number 1 important aspect.
23:27 < TheSov> yeah
23:27 < TheSov> i even modded it 777
23:27 < TheSov> checked it
23:27 < Psi-Jack> ...
23:27 < TheSov> nope
23:27 < Psi-Jack> Stop doing really bad things!
23:27 < TheSov> lol ok
23:28 < TheSov> i just wanted to eliminate that as an issue
23:28 < Psi-Jack> 777 is never how you "eliminate" an issue. :p
23:28 < Psi-Jack> But, moving on.
23:29 < TheSov> the data in target.lio is here https://paste.linux.community/view/366562ab
23:29 < TheSov> interestingly enough, iblocks stick
23:29 < TheSov> its just targets that dont
23:29 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. Can you manually load this with targetcli restore?
23:30 < TheSov> restore?
23:30 < Psi-Jack> And.. /dev/rbd0? Ceph?
23:30 < TheSov> yes
23:30 < Psi-Jack> Why... in the world, are you exporting Ceph RBDs as iSCSI?
23:30 < TheSov> vmware
23:30 < Psi-Jack> x.x
23:31 < Psi-Jack> Okay. I'm done.
23:31 < TheSov> if you have a better idea im all ears!
23:31 < TheSov> dont say pNFS
23:31 < Psi-Jack> Not VMWare.
23:31 < TheSov> I love KVM-QEMU
23:31 < Psi-Jack> Proxmox VE, for example.
23:31 < TheSov> not my call though
23:32 < TheSov> also I have to attach iscsi disks to, dare i say it?, windows...
23:33 < Psi-Jack> I feel so violated. heh
23:33 < bls> did this setup grow organically over time as people learned how to do new things or was it planned this way from the beginning :P
23:34 < TheSov> I have a 4PB cluster ive been ordered to get operational for the dev's vmware cluster and for windows servers
23:34 < TheSov> organically
23:34 < TheSov> the ceph cluster was originally for backups only but then some people saw the rbd's mounted as disks and started using them as disks and it became an impromptu SAN
23:35 < bls> heh, it sounds like you're at the point where I used to see people turn into NetApp/VMWare/Nutanix/Pure/etc customers
23:35 < TheSov> only the dev's use vmware, prod is mirantis openstack
23:35 < Psi-Jack> ... You have openstack?
23:35 < TheSov> yes
23:35 < Psi-Jack> And you're not using it? heh
23:35 < TheSov> we do
23:35 < TheSov> thats prod
23:36 < TheSov> thats has its own ceph cluster
23:36 < Psi-Jack> Get rid of the VMWare, and deploy a similar openstack cluster for devs, solve all the problems. Cinder supports Ceph RBD.
23:36 < TheSov> I wish, not my call
23:37 < TheSov> we tossed our EMC a while ago, we been working off local disks, now they want HA storage for all hosts
23:38 < Psi-Jack> Well, all I can give you is, obviously the config file has something wrong with it, you need to fix it. targetcli restore, targetcli save. Might even replace the LSB-init with a proper systemd service unit instead ocne you get the basics working.
23:38 < TheSov> Command not found restore
23:39 < Psi-Jack> targetctl even
23:40 < bonhoeffer>  i have an sftp server -- gave the user all permissions needed. They can upload files, but can't overwrite files
23:40 < TheSov> hmm that uninstalled targetcli
23:40 < TheSov> why
23:40 < bonhoeffer> any options?
23:40 < bonhoeffer> user has u+w access
23:41 < bls> bonhoeffer: u+w on what? can't overwrite their own files, or someone else's?
23:41 < bonhoeffer> u, g + w sorry -- sftp ls -l shows -rw-rw-r--    1 33       33
23:43 < bonhoeffer> the file i'm trying to overwrite is -rw-rw-r-- 1 www-data www-data
23:44 < Psi-Jack> Oi..
23:44 < Psi-Jack> www-data should not contain application code.
23:44 < bonhoeffer> ok
23:45 < Psi-Jack> On-Disk caches, on-disk temporary files, on-disk uploaded static content, etc. May be okay for www-data, but the webapp itself should definitely not run as the webserver user.
23:45 < dr4ken> guys, do you have the name of a good "for babies" book of bash?
23:45 < JackMa> hello, i use tmux, but how can i detach it?
23:45 < Psi-Jack> That's just asking for RCEs. ;)
23:45 < Psi-Jack> JackMa: Ctrl+B ?
23:45 < JackMa> btrl + b d ?
23:45 < revel> ctrl+b, d
23:45 < dr4ken> preferably something free, so i dot have to browse too much finding th .pdf/.epub itself
23:46 < bls> dr4ken: have you read the wooledge website?
23:46 < Psi-Jack> JackMa: You catch on quick.
23:46 < JackMa> but i press ctrl + b, d, but it don’t work
23:46 < Psi-Jack> But, what's a btrl?
23:46 < revel> JackMa: Release ctrl+b
23:47 < JackMa> revel: :) i did it thanks
23:47 < JackMa> :)
23:47 < Psi-Jack> lol
23:47 < Psi-Jack> Not Ctrl+B, Ctrl+D
23:47 < bls> or Ctrl+B+D
23:47 < Psi-Jack> Sounds like a syringe.
23:47 < revel> Psi-Jack: For detaching, Psi-Jack? No, it is ctrl+b d
23:47 < revel> Also, uppercase and lowercase D act differently.
23:47 < JackMa> ctrl + b, then unrelase press d ok revel
23:47 < Psi-Jack> revel: Not on MY tmux!
23:48 < bls> on MY tmux it's ctrl+] d but that's probably not helpful to anyone but me
23:49 < revel> Psi-Jack: For regular tmux detaching? I do ctrl+D normally to close shells. Also, if it's not a default, then it's not of much help.
23:49 < Psi-Jack> Your command key is Ctrl+]?
23:49 < Psi-Jack> revel: I remapped Ctrl+B to Ctrl+A
23:49 < bls> yeah, switched it to ctrl+] to avoid collision with readline
23:49 < Psi-Jack> b->a that is.
23:50 < catphish> does anyone know how dm-multipath prevents reads and writes getting out of order?
23:50 < bls> catphish: puts them in a queue?
23:51 < catphish> bls: specifically, i wondered what prevents a read on one path skipping ahead of w wrte on another path and returning the wrong data
23:51 < bls> to the OS, a dmmp device is a single endpoint. it can then distribute/collate the OPs in order
23:51 < bls> catphish: the same way it does with a non-dmmp disk
23:52 < catphish> well with a single path, you can send commands in order, and expect them to be processed in order
23:52 < catphish> but with 2 paths, i don't understand what stops one path getting ahead of the other
23:53 < bls> the MP code can order the OPs for sending, why wouldn't it be capable of ordering the responses?
23:54 < catphish> for exmple, my application writes to block 0, then reads back that data from block 0, what happens if those operations go to different paths, and the read arrives first, the result would be the old data
23:54 < bls> you wouldn't parallelize those OPs
23:54 < catphish> is the answer that it knows not to create this scenario?
23:55 < bls> yes, the same way it does with a single disk
23:55 < catphish> interesting, with a single disk i'd expect it to just send all the commands in order without worrying
23:55 < catphish> since they'll arrive at the disk in order
23:56 < catphish> but with multipath it would need to know not to send multiple operations for the same lba over different channels
23:57 < catphish> but i wasn't sure if that's how it worked
23:57 < catphish> just looking for the manual to confirm
23:57 < bls> it'd only work like that in a master-master setup, which is highly unlikely
23:58 < catphish> what is highly unlikely?
23:58 < bls> multiple paths interacting with the same blocks simultaneouly
23:59 < bls> it normally weights your paths and just uses the fastest, or designates them master-standby
23:59 < dviola> is vega support out of the box with the latest kernels?
--- Log closed Thu May 03 00:00:06 2018