--- Log opened Fri May 04 00:00:07 2018
00:00 < cousteau`> I knew it had grown, but I was expecting Lubuntu to still fit in a CD
00:00 < TheNH813> What I used to do long ago was mirror the entire Ubuntu repo on a USB HDD and have a edited installer on the drive which looks on the external drive before downloading.
00:00 < iopq> twainwek, yes, there's a setting for it, that's why I was able to set the integrated to be the main
00:00 < BCMM> TheNH813: sometimes you get network setups where traffic can't be routed in until a packet has been sent out
00:00 < cousteau`> damn, I remember Knoppix coming with EVERY program imaginable and fitting in a CD
00:00 < TheNH813> Knoppix was great.
00:00 < iopq> twainwek, but that breaks everything so I had to make the discrete the main, which makes the second monitor not work
00:00 < twainwek> iopq: oh. is there an option to enable/disable onboard?
00:01 < BCMM> TheNH813: presumably due to broken or stupid network hardware
00:01 < TheNH813> Especially the build a livecd from their site.
00:01 < iopq> twainwek, yes, I turned it on and sharing RAM with it
00:01 < TheNH813> BCMM: Ah, thanks. I'l put that on my checklist.
00:01 < TheNH813> Of things to test.
00:01 < BCMM> TheNH813: so it may be that logging in as guest works simply because it triggers a network request
00:01 < BCMM> try something dead stupid like pinging google a few times on boot
00:01 < twainwek> iopq: second monitor is plugged into what
00:02 < TheNH813> BCMM: Can't hurt. Especially because I'm using a WiFi adaptor. That makes what you theorized more plausible because the WiFi might have some wierd power management as well.
00:02 < BCMM> TheNH813: oh talking of networks - is networkmanager configured to not connect until somebody starts a client?
00:02 < TheNH813> Hmmm.... dunno.
00:03 < BCMM> TheNH813: i don't actually understand the network behaviour i mentioned above, but the only time i've observed it was with cheap usb wireless dongles
00:03 < BCMM> weird wifi power saving was my best guess too
00:03 < iopq> twainwek, into the integrated
00:04 < TheNH813> BCMM: Which I have.
00:04 < xamithan> Since when did mini iso require an internet connection ?
00:04 < TheNH813> BCMM: I think the wireless chipset is Ralink.
00:04 < bls> xamithan: it only does if you want more than just the base system
00:04 < TheNH813> Yup just checked, and it is. Bus 003 Device 003: ID 148f:7601 Ralink Technology, Corp. MT7601U Wireless Adapter
00:05 < xamithan> I mean,  can't you do it through the network,  no internet required ?
00:05 < TheNH813> Think it was $12-ish. Really solid connection, hasn't dropped yet, but it is a less common chipset I think.
00:06 < bls> and if you're using the mini ISO to conserve bandwidth, it doesn't make a difference if you load the package from the internet or another machine on your LAN, you've still got to get the package somehow
00:09 < supernovah> Hey is there a way to use a nameserver resolution of some sort to figure out what IP a networked box has?
00:09 < phinxy> There are terminals like fbterm & yaft that can draw directly to same buffer as the linux console. I would like to not have the linux console as a parent process..  Would it be possible to somehow fork yaft and then kill the linux console?
00:09 < uplime> supernovah: only if that machine has a PTR record and you know the hostname
00:09 < TheNH813> Hey, dumb question, but how do I run something at startup without init.d?
00:09 < TheNH813> My distro (arch) only uses systemd
00:09 < wizzi> hello
00:09 < bls> supernovah: you mean like DNS?
00:10 < uplime> TheNH813: your crontab might have an @reboot option
00:10 < supernovah> uplime: indeed I can know its name, bls: yes but networked dns only
00:10 < bls> TheNH813: read up on creating a systemd unit file
00:10 < xamithan> "host" is the easiest command
00:10 < xamithan> If your DNS works
00:10 < TheNH813> Those are good answers. I'l look into both.
00:10 < uplime> what is "networked" dns
00:10 < supernovah> I thought host was local only
00:11 < xamithan> Nah,  try a host google.com
00:11 < supernovah> uplime: as in not broadcast to the internet layer?
00:11 < uplime> also I was getting my DNS mixed up. it would need an A record not a PTR record
00:11 < uplime> supernovah: so you mean LAN, not "networked"
00:11 < supernovah> I mean networked, locally
00:11 < uplime> thats a LAN
00:12 < uplime> "networked" doesn't imply its local
00:12 < supernovah> we're not 5 years old mate
00:12 < uplime> agreed. you're old enough to use proper terms
00:12 < TheNH813> sudo: crontab: command not found
00:12 < TheNH813> Ouch. No crontab be default?
00:12 < bls> supernovah: if the DHCP server on your network is attached to its own DNS, hosts on the network can register their IP addresses
00:13 < bls> supernovah: otherwise, you can look into something like avahi for "zero configuration" name lookups
00:13 < alexandre9099> would anyone explain me like i was five what is the difference between shared memory and used memory? virtualbox for example only uses 50MB of used memory but uses 1 GB of shared memory, but firefox uses 600MB of memory and almost no shared memory
00:14 < TheNH813> Shared memory is discardable. Used memory is locked by the process.
00:14 < TheNH813> At least if I remember correctly.
00:14 < supernovah> On the network I just get, unknown host: name
00:14 < Konichiwa> alexandre9099, nobody ever showed firefox how to share his toys, but virutalbox's parents taught him it's ok to not have a toy once in a while
00:14 < TheNH813> For example, if another process REALLY needs memory, some of the shared memory can be realocated and swapped out.
00:15 < supernovah> using the command host $(hostname), just gives me 2(servfail)
00:15 < TheNH813> Konichiwa: That's a even simpler explanation then mine. :D
00:16 < Konichiwa> TheNH813, five year old....been through that stage 6 times ;)
00:16 < bls> supernovah: you need at least one of: local DNS for your LAN, avahi, or something in /etc/hosts
00:17 < alexandre9099> Konichiwa, hmm, so shared memory is like "i have this reserved but you(other processes) can also use" and used memory is "this is only mine!", right?
00:17 < Konichiwa> good start :)
00:17 < supernovah> bls: what layer does it communicate to other computers, the name association if I just at it to /etc/hosts?
00:18 < TheNH813> The IP layer, if you mean the network packets itself.
00:18 < TheNH813> Because the /etc/hosts file is essentially a redirector.
00:18 < supernovah> what part of IP
00:18 < TheNH813> The TCP/IP layer.
00:18 < bls> alexandre9099: shared memory is memory that has been shared between more than one process. in the case of vbox, you're sharing it between the host OS and VM
00:18 < supernovah> I didn't realise it covers name resolution...
00:18 < alexandre9099> Konichiwa, hmm, interesing so i should *only* look into the used memory, right? how about free and available? does that relate to the shared/used memory thing?
00:19 < bls> supernovah: host name to number resolution is at the IP layer
00:19 < bls> DNS runs over UDP or TCP
00:20 < uplime> usually udp
00:20 < alexandre9099> bls, hmm, so like libs and other stuff that is loaded into ram can also be used by other programs? (i haven't seen the RAM usage on windows guest, but the shared memory in that case should be lower?)
00:20 < TheNH813> supernovah: If you want it in terms of OSI, it's layer 4.
00:20 < TheNH813> And encapsulated inside layer 3.
00:21 < bls> layer 4 doesn't come into play if you're using /etc/hosts
00:21 < Konichiwa> alexandre9099, your reported available memory may actually be less than what is available to programs to use.  What's the end game you're concerned with with memory?
00:21 < Konichiwa> you should always be concerned with free/available memory because a program can always run away with it too ;)
00:21 < TheNH813> bls: Yeah you're right it's just layer 3.
00:22 < Konichiwa> then bring your system to a halt/slow down
00:22 < TheNH813> I mixed that up.
00:22 < alexandre9099> Konichiwa, nah, just curious about the usage with VMs booted :D
00:22 < TheNH813> I should know, I'v taken Cisco 1 and 2.
00:22 < bls> TheNH813: although take /etc/hosts out of the mix, and you're correct
00:22 < supernovah> So after modifying hosts, how do you force a broadcast/update of the name?
00:22 < uplime> /etc/hosts is only for that one machine
00:22 < supernovah> exactly
00:22 < bls> supernovah: you don't, /etc/hosts is only for the local machine to make its own lookups
00:22 < uplime> its not a thing for the entire network
00:23 < uplime> so there is no "broadcast/update"
00:23 < supernovah> exactly my point
00:23 < alexandre9099> Konichiwa, so "free" is what i should look at? (assuming i have no swap)?
00:23 < uplime> what exactly is your point
00:23 < TheNH813> supernovah: For the entire network, you need to set up a DNS server. The DNS server can use it's hosts file to resolve local names and redirect everything else out.
00:23 < bls> what point are you trying to make then? you asked how to make hostname to IP translation happen. you were given three valid methods.
00:23 < Konichiwa> alexandre9099, here's the more young adult version of it:  the difference is like a gallon of milk and a jug of water with roommates
00:23 < TheNH813> At least that's my method.
00:24 < Konichiwa> alexandre9099, your shared memory is like drinking water from the jug, then filling it back up for others when your done
00:24 < Konichiwa> the milk is gone once it's gone otoh
00:24 < supernovah> 10:13 < supernovah> Hey is there a way to use a nameserver resolution of some sort to figure out what IP a networked box has?
00:24 < uplime> we already told you. you need to setup a DNS server and setup an A record for it
00:24 < bls> /etc/hosts is a valid solution to that question
00:25 < uplime> either or
00:25 < uplime> /etc/hosts is obviously simpler
00:25 < bls> or avahi
00:25 < supernovah> No because that doesn't "figure out" the answer, it declares the answer then looks it up
00:26 < uplime> its "figured out" by doing a lookup. you can't magically associate a name with an IP without first mapping that name to the IP
00:26 < alexandre9099> Konichiwa, hmm, i think i got thanks a lot for the explanation
00:26 < bls> something has to do that mapping. either a DNS server, a hosts file, or avahi
00:27 < uplime> otherwise, that name is meaningless to everything besides the computer itself
00:27 < bls> I guess there's NIS/YP, but yuck
00:29 < bls> if you control the DHCP server, you can configure it to report the hostname of a machine requesting an IP mapped to the IP it assigned to a DNS server (or use something like dnsmasq that does both)
00:29 < Konichiwa> alexandre9099, I would keep an eye on the buff/cahce too.  If it seems high, control it with more pressure of cgroups
00:29 < TheNH813> Can someone link me to good documentation on SystemD unit files?
00:29 < TheNH813> I might not be using the right search terms in my searches.
00:29 < bls> otherwise you've got to write DNS zone files by hand, much in the same way you'd write a hosts file
00:29 < uplime> although zone files take a bit more work
00:30 < uplime> but not too much!
00:30 < bls> TheNH813: have you tried https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Writing_unit_files ? it's not great, but it's the best I've found
00:30 < alexandre9099> Konichiwa, i never saw things about cgroups, it's never too late ;)
00:30 < Konichiwa> alexandre9099, I run multiple wallets and encode regularly on my home server as well as serve files to all of the devices in the home....so I have over 4GB in buff/cahce
00:31 < TheNH813> bls: Thanks.
00:33 < Konichiwa> alexandre9099, easiest is pressuring the cache.  default is 100 but can increase to 200 with /proc/sys/vm/vfs_cache_pressure
00:33 < Konichiwa> higher will force it to flush the buffers out faster
00:33 < alexandre9099> well, that is starting to be a little bit of chinese to me :D
00:33 < alexandre9099> so that means that i might be better performance?
00:34 < Konichiwa> not necessarily
00:34 < Konichiwa> http://tldp.org/LDP/sag/html/buffer-cache.html
00:34 < Konichiwa> there's a quick read on the buff/cache
00:35 < TheNH813> Keep in mind that to make the cache settings in vfs_cache_pressure permanent you can put a config file in /etc/sysctl.d/ or add a line in /etc/sysctl.conf
00:41 < triceratux> heh finally a post that mentions systemd-resolved is the default dns in bionic ftw https://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-neon-operating-system-is-moving-to-ubuntu-lts-18-04-lts-bionic-beaver-520949.shtml
00:42 < kalinite> suuuuup
00:44 < jim> hi
00:45 < TheNH813> Hello
00:46 < kalinite> how is ##linux today
00:47 < jim> peaceful atm :)
00:47 < kalinite> nice
00:47 < kalinite> hurr durr what is the best distro to run in a vm?
00:48 < bls> there isn't one
00:48 < kalinite> then what is the best to duel boot?
00:48 < jim> I dunno, debian is pretty good, I know the installer boots and runs in qemu/kvm
00:48 < uplime> best is a funny word
00:48 < kalinite> oh ok
00:48 < uplime> and has no real answer
00:48 < kalinite> clit
00:49 < kalinite> \o/
00:49 < jim> forth has that word... it means character literal
00:49 < kalinite> fedora
00:50 < kalinite> ok serious talk, I want to develop graphics programs in c++, is there one with a toolpackage inbuilt?
00:50 < jim> maybe debian again, for dual booting... but as usual with linux, it's addictive, you're eventually not going to want to boot the other one
00:50 < bls> all of them
00:51 < kalinite> clean install ftw
00:51 < kalinite> but i like windows for games
00:51 < jim> debian uses their toolchain in the autobuilders, so it -has- to always work
00:52 < kalinite> coming from windows, how much easier is developing?
00:52 < bls> you should pick your distro based on your preference for package manager and release schedule, because distros don't have any magic that makes the same software run better or worse than on another distro
00:52 < kalinite> i have dabbled with linux but I'm not where i want to be in terms of skill
00:52 < jim> linux (well reall unix and alikes) are made for development
00:53 < kalinite> this is why i am eventually gonna migrate
00:53 < kalinite> i just wish people used it more
00:53 < bls> you could run linux and do everything in eclipse, intellij, sublime, vscode, etc just like you would in windows
00:53 < jim> well what I'm hearing in that, is you're not sure how much time you want to spend learning it?
00:53 < kalinite> I tend to pick stuff up quite fast
00:54 < jim> ok, a good thing
00:54 < kalinite> I want to port all my old java to c++ and run it on linux
00:54 < kalinite> I think it will be faster
00:54 < kalinite> I hate the overhead in java
00:54 < jim> I'll take a risky guess, and say you'd probably like it
00:54 < kalinite> I already do:)
00:55 < jim> (not necessarily java, but linux and developing in it)
00:55 < kalinite> how does debian compare with ubuntu?
00:55 < kalinite> both 64bit
00:55 < jim> debian is ubuntu's parent
00:55 < bls> kalinite: they're pretty much the exact same, just different version of the same software
00:55 < kalinite> I see
00:55 < kalinite> I shall probably go debian then
00:56 < kalinite> Is it possible to run it from a flash drive as an alternative to duel boot?
00:56 < kalinite> if so, what size is best
00:56 < rouji> the size that fits all the stuff you want on it
00:56 < mawk> 16 Gio at least
00:56 < bls> you've got stable debian with older packages that are guaranteed to not change on you unless you upgrade, and you got testing (which is comparable to ubuntu), and unstable
00:56 < kalinite> good thing i have a 128gb sandisk
00:57 < kalinite> lol
00:57 < bls> kalinite: I've run it on as small as 4GB
00:57 < jim> I've tried installing and running it... and while I only did it like once or twice, I found debian to be faster: its package mirrors are faster, it runs faster, it installs (not including downloading the packages) faster
00:57 < mawk> unstable isn't very stable
00:57 < kalinite> i also have an 8gb
00:57 < kalinite> but its usb2
00:57 < mawk> once in a while they refactor some packages and your system breaks
00:57 < kalinite> nice
00:57 < kalinite> oh lol
00:57 < mawk> so testing would be the best for up to date packages
00:58 < mawk> except for the freezing period when they release a new major version
00:58 < kalinite> does the bitrate over usb 2 || 3 have an affect if i boot from flash?
00:58 < rouji> yes
00:58 < jim> as a development platform, you're going to want to use stable, if you care about software age, maybe testing
00:58 < bls> for dev work, I always go with stable editions, but I really hate having to refactor code because a library API changed on me without me planning for it
00:58 < kalinite> by stable you mean -not- installed on a portable drive?
00:58 < bls> some people don't mind that and would rather have the latest version of everything
00:59 < bls> kalinite: no, stable as in the package version are going to stay stable
00:59 < kalinite> oh ok
00:59 < rouji> I'm a dev on rolling release and haven't had many problems yet
00:59 < mawk> stable is the version name
00:59 < mawk> as testing, unstable
00:59 < kalinite> Im gonna guess being naive here... will i need to format the drive?
00:59 < kalinite> i guess ill need to
00:59 < mawk> of course
00:59 < bls> yes
00:59 < kalinite> ye
00:59 < kalinite> hmm
00:59 < jim> kalinite, that's included in the installer
01:00 < kalinite> nice
01:00 < mawk> stable is stretch, testing is buster, unstable is sid
01:00 < kalinite> i have alot of projects on my 128gb
01:00 < kalinite> but my 8gb is disposable
01:00 < rouji> hope it's not their only copy on that usb
01:00 < kalinite> i have 1tb on mediafire and github its ok
01:01 < jim> you won't have to do it before you run the installer, and it's possible to shrink many filesystems in order to come up with disk space
01:01 < rouji> 8gb is going to be very tight with a DE and IDEs
01:01 < kalinite> indeed
01:01 < kalinite> is there a processing IDE for linux then?
01:01 < bls> give it a shot on that then. also check out some of the "live" distros intended for trialling things out
01:01 < rouji> processing?
01:01 < kalinite> because thats small on windows
01:01 < kalinite> java-processing
01:01 < mawk> eclipse is on linux too afaik
01:01 < bls> same IDEs as run on windows
01:01 < jim> there are a few of those
01:01 < kalinite> its a library on top of java designed to make prototyping easy
01:02 < rouji> so not an IDE
01:02 < kalinite> because java sucks
01:02 < mawk> why use it then
01:02 < kalinite> it is, it is portable too
01:02 < mawk> do python
01:02 < rouji> link?
01:02 < kalinite> python is ok
01:02 < bls> as long as that lib doesn't have hooks into win32, it should work on linux as well
01:02 < rouji> do jython lol
01:02 < kalinite> https://processing.org/
01:02 < kalinite> jython?
01:02 < kalinite> is that better than the sum of its parts?
01:02 < Psi-Jack> golang.
01:03 < jim> yes, and you probably won't like the performance of java ides, they freeze sometimes, and in so doing, interrupt your thinking and creative process
01:03 < kalinite> agreed
01:03 < kalinite> C++
01:03 < bls> debian already has that prepackaged for you: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/libprocessing-core-java
01:03 < kalinite> its the M1 grand of languages
01:03 < rouji> c++ has a lot of weirdness in it
01:03 < kalinite> oh nice
01:03 < kalinite> #define true false
01:03 < kalinite> for example
01:03 < rouji> turing complete templating system
01:04 < kalinite> #define if while
01:04 < kalinite> :P
01:04 < mawk> that's just the c preprocessor
01:04 < kalinite> might aswell talk about c then
01:04 < kalinite> life without objects is sad
01:04 < kalinite> :c
01:04 < rouji> you can do OOP in c
01:04 < kalinite> how tho
01:05 < kalinite> with arrays?
01:05 < bls> structs, function pointers, and casts
01:05 < rouji> ↑
01:05 < kalinite> oh i see
01:05 < bls> check out the glib library (not glibc) for an example
01:05 < jim> lots of the scripting languages have object systems, ahd you don't have to muck with dynamic memory allocation
01:05 < kalinite> ohh
01:05 < kalinite> well im gonna try out that pre-packaged distro
01:06 < rouji> which one?
01:06 < jim> which version?
01:06 < jim> do you -need- c/c++?
01:06 < kalinite> > https://packages.debian.org/stretch/libprocessing-core-java
01:06 < kalinite> that one
01:06 < bls> may as well plan on trying out several over the course of a week or two, otherwise you'll end up annoyed and distro hopping
01:07 < rouji> that's a package for debian
01:07 < jim> oh ok, one sec I'll get you an installer
01:07 < triceratux> kalinite: debian 9.4 xfce live is pretty viable, but you may want to start with the nonfree unofficial community netinst
01:07 < kalinite> probably
01:07 < jim> what cpu is your machine, and is it a laptop?
01:07 < justin^^^> are there any packages for low level radio frequency signal processing?
01:08 < jim> low... freq?
01:08 < rouji> basically something that does maths?
01:08 < jim> like hf?
01:08 < rouji> matlab?
01:08 < kalinite> jim, i5-8250u
01:09 < kalinite> laptop
01:09 < bls> justin^^^: you mean something like https://packages.debian.org/buster/gr-gsm or https://packages.debian.org/stretch/libgsm0710-0 or more something like: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/fftw-dev
01:09 < kalinite> /8gb ram
01:09 < justin^^^> bls: i'll look into these, many thanks
01:10 < m1n> how hard would it be to develop a working window manager for xorg (not to read up on this stuff)? Also, should I use C or what? Just curious mostly
01:10 < jim> ok, so you probably want this: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/9.4.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso
01:10 < ar1nov> kernel discuss only?
01:11 < jim> no, mostly userland discuss
01:11 < ar1nov> ncftp, can i upload fast with it?
01:11 < rouji> impossible, this isn't ##gnu+linux
01:11 < bls> m1n: based on the way you asked the question, I'd say fairly difficult if you were going to start from scratch
01:11 < m1n> I 120% knew someone was going to say that
01:12 < m1n> would have bet 1 miiillion dollars
01:12 < mawk> C, C++
01:12 < jim> ar1nov, are you sure you want to deal with ftp?
01:12 < mawk> you need correct performance
01:12 < mawk> even hardware acceleration
01:12 < ar1nov> jim i have no choice
01:12 < mawk> but you can go hipster and use rust or haskell
01:12 < Loshki> m1n: well, I would start by looking at an existing wm code. There's a maddening amount of boilerplate in X11 coding
01:12 < m1n> woah suh hipster
01:12 < jim> ncftp is a pretty good choice
01:12 < bls> m1n: would you prefer I tell you it's a trivial task and you'll have it done in a couple hours?
01:13 < m1n> ignorance is bls
01:13 < ar1nov> jim it seems it uploads one by one
01:14 < rouji> that's a problem?
01:14 < bls> first off, you'd need to understand: https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.6/doc/xorg-docs/specs/ICCCM/icccm.html *and* understand where it's wrong or completely broken and how to work around it
01:14 < m1n> done and done
01:14 < jim> kalinite, that's an installer image, it has the base package on the image, so on the off chance you can't get networking going in the installer, you can still install the base, boot, and work out the networking from there. do you have a different machine you can irc from while you install?
01:15 < jim> base packages
01:15 < m1n> joking. I was just asking out of curiosity, mate. Maybe I will try sometime in future. Maybe I will try wayland. Thanks for mostly humouring me … most of ya ;D joking again. thanks everyone
01:16 < kalinite> jim yes I have my phones
01:16 < kalinite> just finishing some project stuff and backing up
01:16 < mawk> iproute2 is checking if unix sockets exist, in its code
01:16 < jim> ok... what you can do with that image I linked: you can either write it to a cd blank, or you can write it to a usb stick
01:17 < mawk> why does it do that ? unix socket can be disabled ?
01:17 < jim> they can be disabled in the kernel
01:17 < kalinite> jim, I'll probably write to USB
01:18 < kalinite> is 8gb enough?
01:18 < kalinite> it will take a while to move shit
01:18 < jim> kalinite, yes; the image is less than half a g
01:18 < kalinite> lush
01:18 < kalinite> then so it shall be
01:19 < jim> kalinite, does your laptop have an external sata socket?
01:20 < kalinite> jim, yes
01:20 < mawk> what could cause a netlink datagram to be lost ?
01:20 < mawk> docs seem to imply it's unreliable
01:21 < mawk> maybe it's just fear mongering to force developers to handle errors and retransmission
01:21 < jim> hmm :) then maybe you could find a spare drive in the room and use that?
01:21 < kalinite> jim, its a dell inspiron 5379
01:21 < jim> should work
01:21 < kalinite> just incase you needed to lookup some stuff if you're alright helping
01:21 < kalinite> cool
01:21 < jim> do you know what wireless chipset it has?
01:22 < kalinite> is this displayed in ipconfig?
01:22 < kalinite> how can i find out, jim?
01:24 < jim> once you get the installer booted, if it doesn't get a net connection right away, we could probably find out then... meanwhile, trying to look it up
01:24 < kalinite> sure
01:24 < kalinite> I need to get some things
01:24 < kalinite> lost my fucking vape
01:24 < kalinite> how else am i supposed to stay up all night
01:24 < kalinite> :P
01:25 < kalinite> found it
01:25 < kalinite> right
01:25 < kalinite> formatting now, jim
01:25 < jim> says it]s an intel
01:25 < kalinite> yep
01:26 < kalinite> is amd better for linux?
01:26 < jim> not necessarily
01:26 < kalinite> i guess it doesnt matter
01:26 < jim> they both work
01:26 < jim> formatting?
01:26 < kalinite> i always thought amds were prefferable for parallel operations
01:27 < kalinite> just wiping my 8gb clean
01:27 < rouji> amd haven't been preferable for much of anything for a long time
01:27 < jim> jsut so you know, that's gonna be very tight :)
01:27 < kalinite> lol
01:28 < kalinite> I enjoy a bit of tightness;)
01:28 < kalinite> where there is a will, theres a way
01:28 < kalinite> usually >_backdoor
01:28 < kalinite> :P
01:28 < jim> got a spare drive laying around you can put into an enclosure?
01:28 < aeyxa> I want to test telnet to a gmail account
01:28 < aeyxa> but I'm behind a proxy
01:29 < aeyxa> if I do telnet <proxy_ip> <proxy_port> anyone know what command I then type
01:29 < aeyxa> inside of telnet
01:29 < kalinite> there is a 2tb ssd upstairs
01:29 < kalinite> but my mate is sleeping
01:29 < kalinite> and has to get up in a few hours
01:29 < aeyxa> like `CONNECT imap.gmail.com 993` ?
01:29 < kalinite> meyxa how to send unformatted text
01:30 < kalinite> i mean i thought -this- was unformatted enough
01:30 < jim> umm :) telnet is not recommended :) your session can be observed by multiple third parties at most points along the connection
01:30 < aeyxa> I know
01:30 < kalinite> doop
01:30 < bls> aeyxa: what kind of proxy is it? just HTTP? SOCKS? 4 or 5?
01:30 < aeyxa> The point is to see if we can connect behind our proxy
01:31 < aeyxa> Um...idk it's squid?
01:31 < aeyxa> lol >_<
01:31 < aeyxa> http then?
01:31 < kalinite> jim - any preferences in file system and allocation size besides default for what I'm about to do?
01:31 < kalinite> formatting in winderp obvs
01:31 < bls> you don't need to format anything in windows
01:31 < aeyxa> rip
01:32 < aeyxa> I just checked squid and realized they may not allow imap
01:32 < kalinite> am i being stupid?
01:32 < rouji> aeyxa: just point a real mail client at it?
01:32 < kalinite> is it literally easier than that
01:32 < kalinite> ffs i am stupid
01:32 < bls> the .iso already has a filesystem in it, all you have to do is write it on the drive
01:32 < kalinite> oh
01:32 < kalinite> lol
01:32 < kalinite> nice
01:32 < Loshki> aeyxa: set up the proxy in your browser and see if you can still browse
01:32 < jim> well you wouldn't be able to format the partitions with linux filesystems from windows
01:33 < jim> all that stuff would be available in the installer, then later, when you have it installed
01:33 < aeyxa> Loshki: we can, it's the email part that doesn't work
01:33 < bls> so rufus/rawrite/win32diskimager + the ISO + the drive is all you need. no partitioning or formatting
01:33 < bls> aeyxa: then the proxy may be HTTP only, in which case only HTTP verbs are going to work
01:33 < kalinite> jim, lovely
01:34 < kalinite> i cant wait to play around
01:34 < kalinite> downloading iso now
01:34 < aeyxa> yeah, I understand, thank you guys
01:34 < kevr> Hello. What is the difference between (input,hidraw1) and (input,hidraw3) in dmesg?
01:34 < kalinite> jim, how compressed is the .iso?
01:34 < kevr> One one computer, I see hidraw3, on another, I see hidraw1
01:34 < bls> if it's SOCKS, you can try to look up the SOCKS specific protocol/verbs. don't know them off the top of my head
01:34 < mawk> it's in binary for socks iirc
01:35 < mawk> so you won't do this with telnet
01:35 < jim> it's ready to run if that's what you mean, just raw write (rufus is good) to the stick
01:35 < wedgie> aeyxa: you could look at tsocks to proxy your commands
01:35 < bls> ah, wasn't sure if you could give it a verb and it'd just tell you a port to use
01:35 < Dan39> you can use socat for connecting through socks
01:35 < mawk> yeah
01:35 < kalinite> jim - could you explain what rufus is?
01:36 < mawk> socat STDIO SOCKS4A:sockshost:host:port,socksport=$something
01:36 < bls> kalinite: ever used norton ghost?
01:36 < kalinite> bls no
01:36 < jim> (I never had to use rufus) I think it's a utility that allows you to write to various media
01:36 < bls> ah, then no reference point
01:37 < mawk> some people don't like rufus
01:37 < mawk> iirc the defaults are dumb
01:37 < kalinite> im gonna have to instal that then?
01:37 < kalinite> oh lol
01:37 < mawk> it has like smart detection but it injects its own boot record or something
01:37 < bls> it's essentially a low level (think below the file system) disk imager
01:37 < rouji> https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/ this does a dumb raw write iirc
01:37 < bls> yeah I always use either win32diskimager or rawrite
01:38 < jim> I would recommend installing it, yes... I don't know of another program you can get for windows
01:38 < kalinite> is that better than rufus
01:38 < mawk> yeah it's the one recommended by debian rouji
01:38 < kalinite> nice
01:38 < kalinite> shall get
01:38 < mawk> just when you select the iso, you set the file type to "all (*.*)" in the dialog to see your iso
01:38 < bls> it's dumber than rufus. the "smart" programs for doing this often get in their own way and screw things up
01:38 < jim> good enough :)
01:38 < mawk> because it asks for .img by default
01:39 < jim> yeah, the iso is called something.iso
01:39 < kalinite> yeah many times ive been caught out by not having all file type
01:39 < kalinite> like wtf where is my file
01:39 < eqw> There's a number of files on my vfat partition that are visible by ls, readable by hexdump but invisible by perl and mc doesn't see theirs size and location. How does it possible?
01:39 < kalinite> and then you realise that you are blind and stupid:)
01:40 < jim> oh right
01:40 < bls> eqw: what do you mean by "invisible by perl and mc"?
01:40 < jim> do you already have the image?
01:40 < jim> also
01:41 < jim> does your laptop also have an eth port?
01:41 < mawk> can I unbind a socket after having it bound ?
01:41 < mawk> to bind it somewhere else
01:42 < kalinite> ok got the writer and iso ready
01:42 < Dan39> mawk: once the program is closed it will be "unbound"
01:42 < Dan39> hopefully :p
01:43 < jim> cool :)
01:43 < kalinite> jim, once i have installed it - what operations do I have to ensue on boot up?
01:43 < mawk> yeah I know
01:43 < eqw> bls: invisible by perl, not mc. This just doesn't show them:  perl -we'opendir DIR,".";use Data::Dumper;print Dumper(readdir DIR);'
01:43 < mawk> but I have a netlink socket and I want it to use in two different groups, one time after the other
01:43 < mawk> guess I'll have to close it and reopen it inbetween
01:44 < jim> the two boot options it installs is normal boot and maintainance (single user) mode
01:44 < kalinite> oh ok
01:44 < bls> eqw: readdir only returns a single directory in scalar context
01:44 < kalinite> i have boot64.efi nested in 2 folders
01:45 < jim> once installed, the machine might forget how to boot windows, we should be able to fix that in linux
01:45 < kalinite> ok cool
01:45 < kalinite> right, I think I'll need to regain coms via android while I muck around
01:45 < jim> oh, it's an efi machine, that shouldn't be a problem and it shouldn't forget how
01:45 < eqw> bls: the context is not scalar
01:45 < kalinite> see you in a sec
01:47 < dannylee> dd
01:47 < jim> hmm?
01:47 < dannylee> hi jim
01:47 < Dan39> dd
01:47 < jim> hi :)
01:48 < dannylee> na i`m just trying to fix up my house
01:49 < Dan39> houses always be needing fixin
01:49 < dannylee> where is my firewall in fedora 27...i just don`t know
01:49 < kalinite> back
01:49 < jim> cool, that's your phone?
01:49 < kalinite> yes
01:49 < jim> ok
01:49 < Dan39> dannylee: it hides in your other bedroom
01:50 < jim> see if the thing boots :) you might have to turn off secure boot in the bios
01:50 < dannylee> hacker are trying to brake into my computer...but i might be a little bit of a hacker toooo
01:51 < Hashtag> Fellas, I need help. I broke something by moving partitions around, and now my laptop can't find grub and doesn't know how to boot
01:51 < dannylee> vpn $$$ how much
01:51 < kalinite> ah, is this option available in system options
01:51 < kalinite> dannylee, lol nice
01:51 < jim> to turn off secure boot?
01:51 < kalinite> yes
01:51 < dannylee> ok
01:51 < jim> shoot :) I don't remember :)
01:52 < kalinite> my VPN is ipvanish
01:52 < jim> it was awhile back I had to get into the bios
01:52 < dannylee> just a real proxy will help
01:52 < dannylee> vpn are really slow
01:52 < kalinite> I don't often do into it
01:52 < kalinite> oh,my VPN is fast
01:53 < dannylee> c00000l
01:53 < kalinite> but I pay a premiumfor it
01:53 < kalinite> no bottlenecking unless super fast bitrate
01:54 < dannylee> maybe i just need faster RAM
01:54 < Celmor> do I need to partition a disk to use it with LVM? according to this guide I should create a single partition of type LVM (0x8e) http://www.anthonyldechiaro.com/blog/2010/12/19/lvm-loopback-how-to/
01:54 < kalinite> download more ram
01:54 < kalinite> then
01:54 < dannylee> i have 8GB
01:54 < kalinite> that's enough
01:54 < kalinite> clock speed?
01:54 < bls> Celmor: LVM needs a partition to live on, yes
01:55 < bls> Celmor: type doesn't really matter unless you're dual booting
01:55 < jim> Celmor, you need partitions for the PVs (physical volumes)
01:55 < dannylee> thanks
01:56 < Celmor> I don't see any paritions on my disk on which linux is installed using lvm
01:56 < kalinite> peak
01:56 < bls> oh, for just a loopback disk image? no, you don't need to partition
01:56 < jim> if I could download more ram, maybe I could download more cpu cores
01:56 < kalinite> lol
01:56 < Celmor> https://ptpb.pw/C6t0
01:57 < Celmor> bls, why does it matter if it's a loopback device?
01:57 < kalinite> why not dl more motherboards too
01:57 < kalinite> then you'll have access to the ...MOTHERDRIVE
01:58 < kalinite> I am blessed to have 8 CPU cores in this laptop
01:58 < kalinite> no GPUtho
01:58  * jim downloads a beefier power supply
01:58 < kalinite> hot
01:59  * kalinite downloads more PCIe ports
01:59 < markasoftware> I am blessed to have battery life on *this* laptop
01:59 < kalinite> what % currently
02:00 < jim> how's that going? were you able to boot the usb?
02:00 < kalinite> i got distracted
02:00 < jim> oh ok
02:00 < markasoftware> 30.5% for each CPU core I have :(
02:00 < kalinite> just disabling uefi now
02:00 < jim> the whole thing/
02:00 < jim> ?
02:01 < kalinite> secure boot
02:01 < jim> debian can install onto uefi, it's just that if you have secure boot on, you might not be able to boot anything but win
02:02 < kalinite> i c
02:02 < kalinite> what is the boot up process? I'm gonna shutdown
02:03 < jim> just plug it in and try to boot :)
02:03 < kalinite> sick
02:03 < kalinite> initiating inititation protocol
02:04 < kalinite> having a decent VPN should be everyone's right
02:04 < jim> if it boots, you'll see a big debian logo
02:05 < kalinite> cool starting up
02:05 < kalinite> went straight to windows lol
02:05 < kalinite> do I need to press a key combo?
02:06 < jim> is there a way to get the boot menu? sometimes that's F2 or something
02:06 < jim> look at the screen while it's booting, it should show you some options
02:07 < kalinite> ssd to fast :c
02:07 < kalinite> too*
02:07 < jim> ohh, it's an ssd
02:07 < meyou_> just continuously tippytap f8
02:07 < kalinite> oh thanks
02:08 < meyou_> oh dear i didn't see what channel i was in
02:08 < jim> try holding the F2 while you power it up, then try with F12
02:08 < meyou_> you want your bios boot options, that'll be del or f2 or something
02:09 < jim> you might have to reorder the boot sequence?
02:10 < kalinite> ok f8 tapping was not successful
02:10 < jim> I'll order a chaos burger, and a bottle of anything...
02:10 < mawk> what's the best way to get the preferred source address that will be used for a given interface ?
02:10 < kalinite> gonna try holding f2
02:10 < mawk> by best I mean the most correct, that is that takes into account policy routing, complicated routing rules
02:11 < kalinite> holding f2 failed
02:11 < kalinite> should I hold f12 simultaneously?
02:12 < mawk> ip route get 0 oif $IFACE looks like working
02:12 < mawk> but I'm not extra sure
02:13 < mawk> it responds with the correct src address
02:13 < kalinite> lol
02:13 < meyou_> kalinite, what's your computer/mobo model?
02:13 < kalinite> dell inspiron 5379 i think
02:13 < jim> at this point, I think probably get back into the bios and see if you can boot from there, or see if you can reorder the options... it might show the debian netinstall by name in the bios
02:13 < kalinite> ok
02:14 < meyou_> dell is F12
02:14 < meyou_> for boot menu
02:16 < kalinite> grr
02:16 < kalinite> can't get into fuxkinf bios
02:16 < kalinite> I was tapping f2 at  like 10hz
02:17 < kalinite> why it not work
02:19 < Psi-Jack> kalinite: kindly mind the language.
02:19 < meyou_> ssd too fast
02:19 < meyou_> trying 200hz
02:19 < kalinite> lol
02:19 < triceratux> kalinite: sometimes on those dell laptops you have to let it boot to windows just to get the flashdrive to powerup & then do a warmboot, as an ordinary coldboot doesnt get power to the usb fast enough. & the bios keys can be anything from f1/f2 to f11/f12
02:20 < Psi-Jack> And also, which key depends on which BIOS.
02:20 < kalinite> thanks
02:20 < triceratux> ^^
02:20 < meyou_> it's f2 for bios f12 for boot menu
02:20 < Psi-Jack> Sometimes...
02:20 < meyou_> this time...
02:20 < jim> he's saying for dell
02:20 < Psi-Jack> Most times, boot menu is F8, I have 5 systems like that.
02:21 < jim> we can try that too
02:21 < stevendale> Good morning jim :)
02:21 < meyou_> just get a large block of wood and tap all keys in unison
02:21 < Psi-Jack> That usually causes the beep which means the buffer is too full.
02:21 < jim> hi, how's it going?
02:21 < Psi-Jack> :p
02:22 < stevendale> Good thanks :3
02:22 < dviola> my boot menu is F11, I always thought this machine couldn't boot and always used plop for that, found out after 5 years that wasn't the case :/
02:22 < dviola> usb boot*
02:22 < Psi-Jack> heh
02:22 < stevendale> Had 10 chicken nuggets, large fries & two large chocolate shakes from McDonalds for dinner last night
02:22 < triceratux> plop is an enormous help in any case
02:22 < Psi-Jack> Yeah? Well, I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night!
02:23 < kalinite> I liked having Linux on my raspberrypi
02:23 < jim> there was a comic book called plop
02:23 < meyou_> stevendale, hnnnngh
02:23 < Psi-Jack> I like having Linux.
02:23 < triceratux> hah i shopped at a goodwill today & their electronics were down so they could only process cash
02:24 < stevendale> meyou_ I don't think this is the place for furry sex noises
02:24 < meyou_> that is a very versatile noise but now we all know your preferred usage
02:24 < kalinite> hold on
02:25 < jim> kalinite, this probably would have happened no matter what other os you were gonna install
02:25 < kalinite> trying advanced startup
02:25 < meyou_> advanced startup is post bootloader
02:25 < meyou_> that just lets you change how windows is going to boot
02:25 < kalinite> derp
02:25 < stevendale> msconfig
02:25 < kalinite> oh
02:26 < kalinite> yeah that didn't work
02:26 < kalinite> why am I retarded
02:26 < jim> you're not retarted, sommething else is advanced
02:27 < kalinite> gonna try f8
02:27 < ayecee> could be genetics, could be lead paint
02:27 < kalinite> lol
02:28 < kalinite> so far tried f2, f2 && f12, f12 10hz, f12 200hz
02:28 < Psi-Jack> It wouldn't be a combination, just one.
02:29 < kalinite> f8 - 64khz
02:29 < meyou_> oof, first google hit for your problem has a solution of "the dell service tech came and replaced the motherboard and keyboard and this is now resolved!"
02:30 < kalinite> I'll duck it
02:30 < kalinite> ty
02:30 < Psi-Jack> Duuuude.. You got a Dell?
02:30 < Psi-Jack> "thank you" not "ty"
02:30 < kalinite> :^)
02:30 < kalinite> I have a dell.
02:31 < kalinite> psi-jack, thanks
02:31 < jim> Psi-Jack, let me do that, I haven't yet
02:31 < Psi-Jack> hehe
02:31 < Psi-Jack> jim: Itchin to? :)
02:32 < kalinite> Psi-jacks, do you like dells
02:32 < Psi-Jack> kalinite: Some specific models of laptops, and some of their servers.
02:32 < Psi-Jack> Their desktops? Not a chance.
02:32 < kalinite> lol true
02:32 < jim> Psi-Jack, I would prefer to take care of it
02:32 < kalinite> mine is an inspiron
02:32 < kalinite> it has 8 CPU cores
02:32 < kalinite> which is nice
02:33 < jim> I used to have really good luck with dell laptops... then they put a great (and hot) processor into an oversmall case
02:33 < kalinite> I still can't get into the mufuggen bios
02:33 < Psi-Jack> I have an old computer which has an AMD Phenom II X4 3.4GHz. But I have 16GB RAM.
02:33 < kalinite> mine does get warm
02:33 < kalinite> niice
02:34 < kalinite> i can run eso on medium high and hit 60hz
02:34 < Psi-Jack> eso?
02:34 < jim> just don't block the air holes
02:34  * triceratux has an optiplex 780 & a latitude d620 both running multiple linuxen
02:34 < kalinite> elder scrolls online
02:34 < Psi-Jack> Oh.
02:35 < jim> I'll do it now
02:35 < jim> kalinite, ok, about abreviations...
02:38 < kalinite> jim, yes?
02:38 < stevendale> :3
02:38 < Psi-Jack> Heh. See now this is kinda why I prefer to do it sometimes. Typist speed is fundamentally different. :)
02:39 < stevendale> Clocked my Intel Pentium M 1.73 GHz down to 795 MHz, turned laptop brightness to minimum
02:39 < stevendale> It's slowly cooling down
02:39 < kalinite> sometimes in a rush and don't have access to a physical keyboard
02:39 < jim> kalinite, we've found that some people who are on the channel don't always understand abbreviations... (such as: u 2 4 y r, for you, to, for, why, are), especially when new english speakers are trying... so, the channel operators have disallowed them, mostly to promote understanding
02:39 < kalinite> understood
02:39 < jim> thanks
02:40 < kalinite> well as soon as I get my bios prompted  I'll be apt getting an irc client
02:41 < jim> there's at least a dozen of those, some work in a terminal, others on a graphical "x window system" window
02:41 < jim> F12 didn't work?
02:42 < kalinite> you can irc from a terminal?
02:42 < kalinite> and nope
02:42 < jim> yep
02:42 < kalinite> omfg I need this shit
02:42 < Psi-Jack> And as for hitting the F-keys during POST, There's literally and absolutely no need to rapidly tap the key.
02:42 < kalinite> pardon my languages
02:42 < jim> in fact terminal irc clients came first
02:42 < kalinite> ye
02:42 < kalinite> the best
02:42 < Psi-Jack> Simply tap, every second, roughly.
02:43 < kalinite> 1hz
02:43 < stevendale> :P
02:43 < kalinite> sometimes I thinkmy head is underclocked to 1hz
02:43 < jim> lots of folks like irssi for the terminal... I think hexchat has versions that work in each
02:43 < Psi-Jack> irssi, weechat, and hexchat.
02:43 < stevendale> Yeah HexChat has a cli version jim
02:44 < Psi-Jack> Do they really?
02:44 < stevendale> Yeah it's called hexchat text
02:44 < jim> which they?
02:45 < Psi-Jack> Eggselent. Finally got my salt state.apply to stop failing randomly. (was running out of memory on both the salt-master and one host.
02:45 < Psi-Jack> jim: they = hexchat
02:46 < jim> oh ok,,, so please cool the sarcasm :P
02:46 < Psi-Jack> That wasn't sarcasm, that was genuine. I actually didn't know about hexchat text.
02:47 < triceratux> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1061493
02:47 < TingPing> its crap, only useful for bots maybe
02:47 < Psi-Jack> Heh, annnnnd Mr TingPing himself. ?)
02:50 < notmike> I wish jim were here :(
02:50 < jim> where?!
02:50 < notmike> Jim, you're here!
02:50 < jim> I am?!
02:50 < notmike> Yes!
02:50 < jim> oh ok
02:51 < uplime> remember when jim was here?
02:51 < jim> kalinite, I gotta pause for a bit, maybe a half hour or longer
02:52 < kalinite> ok, no problem, jim
02:52 < kalinite> I'll see if I can figure this out
02:53 < kalinite> remember when jim was here, uplime?
02:59 < notmike> I miss the old jim. He changed.
02:59 < funksh0n> My google-fu is weak tonight.  Is there much performance difference between exfat and ext4?
02:59 < notmike> Yes, ext4 is at least 100x faster
03:00 < funksh0n> My specific use case is a 2.5" ssd connected via USB 2.0 (I realise that's a bottleneck)
03:00 < funksh0n> at least?
03:00 < notmike> At least
03:00 < funksh0n> that's pretty fast
03:00 < notmike> It's classified how fast ext4 goes
03:00 < funksh0n> is it as fast as sonic?
03:00 < notmike> Faster
03:00 < funksh0n> woah!
03:01 < notmike> Like Ugandan Knuckles
03:01 < stevendale> Is it faster than NTFS notmike
03:02 < notmike> The world may never know.
03:03 < seth> Anyone think Swift is a good language to develop cross-platform apps for?
03:03 < seth> Like on Linux specially.
03:04 < seth> I know Linux has Vala.
03:04 < seth> But I need it to run on iOS/macOS devices.
03:04 < ayecee> i'm sure someone does, however there's not many swift apps out there for linux.
03:04 < funksh0n> seth have you considered Adobe AIR?
03:04  * funksh0n hides
03:04 < seth> I am trying to write a new app for KDE-connect.
03:04 < seth> That works better and isn't so QT-based.
03:05 < seth> That works on all platforms.
03:05 < seth> Including iOS.
03:05 < seth> Not a big fan of QT.
03:05 < funksh0n> adobe air works on iOS
03:05 < Dr_Coke> seth I'm not either
03:06 < seth> Not on Linux tho.
03:06 < seth> I don't like Android phones.
03:06 < seth> I prefer iOS.
03:06 < seth> So I want to bridge the gap for the ecosystem.
03:06 < Disconsented> You have 2 real options for cross platform
03:06 < Disconsented> JS or C#
03:07 < jml2> seth, you should check out the librem5 project, it's gunna bridge the gap demanding privacy and floss on mobile<->desktop devices
03:07 < seth> I use C# daily.
03:07 < uplime> Disconsented: + all of the other options
03:08 < seth> I prefer it, but I wasn't sure if it worked great on iOS.
03:08 < seth> I want feature parity.
03:08 < seth> I might have to build a separate app for each platform. :s
03:08 < seth> Yikes.
03:09 < CoCo_Kid594> I was wondering I have ran a NTP server but keep getting DoS attacked on port 123.  Is there a version that stops this attack on my IP.  This is so large in scale it slows my upstream down.  They have won because I had to take my server off line by just closing port 123.  I understand some of it has to be the ISP to fix but they don't want to hear it.
03:10 < dogbert2> why do you need to run a NTP server which is publicly exposed?
03:11 < stevendale> time.windows.com
03:11 < uplime> pool.ntp.org
03:11 < dogbert2> public NTP <-> internal NTP server on your network (with firewall)...problem solved
03:11 < stevendale> time.nist.gov
03:12 < funksh0n> seth: adobe air does work on linux... and iOS and droid and windows and macos...
03:12 < funksh0n> not saying you should use it tho :P
03:12 < dogbert2> the internal server connects to public, and the internal hosts contact the internal NTP system...problem solved
03:12 < stevendale> League of Legends uses it... that and Visual C++ 2005...
03:12 < CoCo_Kid594> I guess what can you do to somebody attacking a particular port nonstop.  Not much.  Great Question.. allot of Computers I have worked on with screwed up cloks.. I sync to it.  Why do people attack it to try and knock it off line..  What do they gain by it.
03:13 < jwillia3> Are they attacking you or just asking for the time?
03:13 < jml2> CoCo_Kid594, they gain power over your system so they can "zombify" or run bitcoin mining on it :)
03:13 < jim> ok,.. what happened while I was gone
03:14 < uplime> CoCo_Kid594: why does your server need to be public facing?
03:14  * stevendale waits for free space optimization
03:14 < jml2> CoCo_Kid594, the new scheme is to get cryptocurrency running on compromised systems
03:14 < uplime> if you're gonna do that, you need to learn how to secure a server first
03:14 < CoCo_Kid594> no it's an attack read about it.. It's a new thing.. on Ip like I'm sending out a 100gig file. .
03:15 < uplime> that doesn't change what I said
03:15 < ayecee> i wonder if it's an amplification attack
03:15 < stevendale> 100 gigs up.... that would take... years for me
03:15 < uplime> google fiber \o/
03:15 < stevendale> I have have 800 Kilobits per second up
03:17 < ayecee> better get out and push
03:17 < CoCo_Kid594> Soo why do I always have to play denfense??  You can always trace your problems to China or Russia..
03:17 < uplime> CoCo_Kid594: why does it need to be public facing?
03:18 < stevendale> The defence makes it so you don't have to waste precious company money and assets to trace in the first place
03:18  * triceratux begins to suspect an xy problem
03:18 < CoCo_Kid594> What can't offer a service.. No because.. people try to knock it offline..
03:19 < Psi-Jack> What service?
03:19 < CoCo_Kid594> Time.
03:20 < Psi-Jack> ntp?
03:20 < CoCo_Kid594> Yeah
03:20 < Psi-Jack> That doesn't need to be public-facing.
03:21 < Psi-Jack> UNless you're a public ntp time service provider listed with the public pool of ntp time servers.
03:21 < seth> Who wants to write Swift apps with me? :D
03:21 < stevendale> I have a feeling Blizz is doing a Warcraft III: Remastered
03:22 < CoCo_Kid594> Go ahead leave port 123 open and see what happens.... I was a Public Pool.. until DoS attack on it.
03:22 < stevendale> They released a Warcraft III patch a few weeks ago, first one in 10+ years or something
03:22 < uplime> they're working on a vanilla wow remake rn
03:22 < stevendale> StarCraft Broodwar had a similar patch, next thing we knew, Remastered was the big battle.net announcement on the front page
03:24 < jim> I have not been a public pool recently...
03:25 < CoCo_Kid594> From one IP just as fast as one computer could do it.. from the logs Just one..  ISP's need to offer one more wall of protection.. besides your own Router. .
03:27 < m1n> I have this bad habit of pressing CTRL-C CTRL-D to exit a terminal (because if there is text on the line or I am in "normal" vi mode, then it's easier to press CTRL-C before pressing CTRL-D so I always exit not matter what); however! I have been experiencing this weird problem only recently. If I press CTRL-D too quickly (before the prompt redisplays), then I don't exit. I know it happens in st, and I think
03:27 < m1n> it happens in urxvtc, too. It's freaking me out. Anyone have any thots?
03:28 < CoCo_Kid594> Does anyone hear work with ntop?  one my favorite ways to monitor network traffic.
03:29 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. Ntp uses udp so it's definitely I common target.
03:29 < Psi-Jack> Though that amplification attack can be mitigated.
03:37 < Jonno_FTW> in kfce4, how do I start a terminal as a login shell so that .bash_profile runs?
03:37 < Jonno_FTW> *xfce4
03:38 < stevendale> Would love to see kfce4 :)
03:39 < Jonno_FTW> nvm I got it, had to change gnome-terminal profile preferences
03:39  * stevendale takes XFCE4 and slaps breeze theme on and chases cursor
03:39 < stevendale> *changes
03:39  * stevendale repackages and uploads to repo as kfce4
03:39 < Jonno_FTW> halfway between kde and xfce4?
03:39 < stevendale> Yeah
03:40 < stevendale> I feel like the hardware requirement between LXDE/XFCE and MATE is just too great, need a middle ground :P
03:42 < Jonno_FTW> well I got my xfce4 to look like gnome
03:45 < triceratux> stevendale: you need antix with icewm. itll keep you out of the puppy pen & the tinycore tank http://antix.mepis.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
03:46 < dysfigured> what's the easiest way to get loadavg for parsing
03:46  * jml2 uses secure dns because he's not an idiot
03:46 < jml2> tiny core is a tiny coup-d'etat on user experience
03:49 < streiu> How do i put tux on the top of my console (tty1)?
03:50 < jml2> streiu, you need to hack the screen and get a penguin
03:50 < zachary12> recompile your kernel w bootup logo
03:50 < jml2> streiu, tuck the tux
03:50 < jml2> stevendale, mate is much more demanding than lxde/xfce
03:51 < jml2> stevendale, if you cant even run xfce, then you need to simply just use textual graphics
03:51 < triceratux> streiu: run fedora or some other distro that still has boottime tux compiled into the kernel
03:52  * jml2 chews a grasshopper and spits it
03:54 < iflema> and a bootsplash
03:55 < tharkun> Gentlemen I've been used to stripping down debian to the bare esentials when I have low memory isues. I am a bit tired about that. Is there some disrtibution, preferably debian based, that is down to the bare esentials.
03:56 < jml2> bootiesplash that's nice
03:56 < iflema> tharkun: "low memory"? Essemtials?
03:56 < jml2> i love bootiespashes
03:56 < iflema> m
03:57 < iflema> was
03:57 < jml2> tharkun, yeah
03:57 < jml2> tharkun, its called netinst iso
03:57 < jml2> tharkun, and its available from the debian distros for over the last 20 years
03:57 < jml2> tharkun, LOL
03:58 < jml2> tharkun, you should be using systemctl disable avahi, rpc/nfs, mdns, ModemManager, etc...
03:58 < jml2> tharkun, bluetooth, and any other service that is loaded on just about any major distro..
03:58 < jml2> tharkun, lots of bloat that you can use "disable" on before removing packages..
03:59 < jml2> tharkun, some packages are needed, and it is best to just use a systemctl disable on their service. than figure out what packages remove them.
03:59 < tharkun> Well low memory means 1GB when lucky usually less. I made a stripped down debian version but it takes too much time for me to do it every single release.
03:59 < jml2> tharkun, (fwiw all the major distros have a minimalist iso)
04:00 < jml2> tharkun, let me guess you never used netinst
04:00 < jml2> tharkun, otherwise you wouldn't be crying about this
04:00 < tharkun> jml2: minimalistic versions have outgrown this pieces of hardware.
04:00 < jml2> tharkun, jc
04:00 < jml2> tharkun, -> https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
04:01 < jml2> i just ordered my new dns registration, gotta do something nifty with it
04:02 < tharkun> jml2: Thanks I am looking almost for an embedded system with reduced libraries and really bare esentials. netinst with bootstrap images over netboot are a nice combination for volumen and eficency.
04:02 < jml2> tharkun, then check out suse studio, iirc its free online and you can build any distro size you want
04:02 < jml2> (there's also porteus which offers online a builder)
04:03 < jml2> no clue about "embedded" -- you're asking the wrong chan...
04:04 < tharkun> jml2: I'll come back soon and explain the full situation to you. So far I need to get this stuff going. Thanks for the links
04:05 < triceratux> jml2: the porteus online build thingy was disabled quite some years ago due to abuse & bandwith concerns http://build.porteus.org/
04:06 < triceratux> tharkun: the ideal solution is to automate your debian customisation via a simple script which finishes up by driving genisoimage
04:06 < jml2> tharkun, i think triceratux may know some embedded build kits ... i have something in my bookmarks about embedded  -- if this interests you -> https://buildroot.org/
04:06 < TheNH813> Well, I left IRC open for a few hours while I was afk. Bet that's gonna increase the hexchat log size a bit. XD
04:07 < Sveta> just a little
04:08 < TheNH813> Well then, might as well ask a question since I'm still here. Anyone got good info on pid and lock files and how to create one?
04:09 < TheNH813> All the examples I found earlier were overly complicated or just "how to open file extension .pid".
04:09 < triceratux> jml2: ive done a great deal of iso remastering but not recently. i generally followed the instructions in distros which support it explicitly such as damnsmall, slitaz, porteus, & mx-linux. a number of distros still leave it up to you & it can be quite a mystery
04:10 < jml2> triceratux, never used suse's online buildre?
04:10 < triceratux> jml2: nope. im acquainted with it but it was a reptile too far
04:11 < iflema> tharkun: so maybe switch desktop? what does the system do?
04:12 < TheNH813> What desktop are you using for it? Are we talking <100MB RAM used when booted?
04:15 < triceratux> last weeks Porteus 4.0 xfce iso is only 282M because it no longer has a graphical browser. thats pretty concise for a fully featured linux althought its also free of systemd
04:15 < tharkun> TheNH813: I used to use notion and framebuffer if needed but I am looking now for somthing that has all of that incorporated and does not require that I do the full dance.
04:16 < tharkun> triceratux: Thanks will try it.
04:16 < streiu> Tux should be always on top of the console even as it moves from issuing commands, like tux is in a different frame
04:18 < TheNH813> Hmmm...
04:18 < TheNH813> I have a old Dell Dimension 4300 running as a server for DNS Cache and NFS. Very old hardware and needed a resource light OS.
04:19 < TheNH813> I used Puppy Linux Slacko. It was completely happy on 256MB of RAM but I have 1.5GB in anyway. Gotta put that DDR1 to use somehow.
04:19 < TheNH813> I'l go check the memory in use right now.
04:21 < kalinite> I still haven't figured out how to boot debian from my usb
04:21 < jml2> kalinite, ?
04:21 < kalinite> I'm about as useful as a mudflap on a turtle
04:21 < kalinite> I have the iso
04:21 < kalinite> just cant boot from it
04:21 < TheNH813> 210MB in use currently with the services running.
04:21 < jml2> kalinite, what OS are you using in trying to dump the iso on usb?
04:22 < kalinite> windows 10
04:22 < kalinite> have debian on the stick
04:22 < TheNH813> I don't reccommend making bootable USBs from windows, but if you must try Yumi.
04:22 < kalinite> Yumi?
04:23 < TheNH813> https://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/
04:23 < jml2> kalinite, rufus or w32imager does me good -- fedorawriter is newer but it is a larger download
04:23 < xamithan> yumi is like a multiboot,  Don't you mean rufus ?
04:23 < TheNH813> Youre Universal Multiboot Installer
04:23 < TheNH813> Is what Yumi stands for.
04:23 < kalinite> oh ok
04:23 < jml2> kalinite, maybe fedorawriter is for you.... it's imho one of the easiest
04:23 < triceratux> puppies can be hit or miss but the good ones are tolerable. i liked quirky xerus because it was based on ubuntu lts & interfaced to the full repo. not all puppies are that cooperative
04:23 < jml2> kalinite, but it's a larger download than all of them
04:23 < kalinite> you think so?
04:24 < TheNH813> triceratux: Ah I see. Yeah sometimes you need to build programs from source for Puppy Linux.
04:24 < kalinite> is this better than just having the iso file written on the USB and booting from that? or is it for that?
04:24 < TheNH813> Yeah, because it takes the relevant files out of the iso and allows multiple different boot disks on the same drive. Also, it dosen't require formatting it so you can still store data on the drive too.
04:25 < jml2> kalinite, https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/download/#fmw
04:25 < kalinite> thanks
04:25 < jml2> kalinite, i suppose that should work with custom isoz (non-fedora)
04:25 < jml2> kalinite, i haven't used windows in a long time, so i have no idea how well it writes non-fedora isoz to usb
04:25 < kalinite> I'll try it out
04:25 < jml2> but from hte looks of the walkthrough it looks easy enough
04:26 < jml2> kalinite, (if you cant see the hidden link it's from here -- in a submenu button somewhere -> https://getfedora.org/fmw/FedoraMediaWriter-win32-4.1.1.exe )
04:26 < TheNH813> Honestly, I'd most tools should take 8-15 minutes. Unless the drive is USB 3 or higher in which case it might be shorter. That's just my experience.
04:26 < kalinite> ohh
04:27 < jml2> fedorawriter is a usb-iso-write tool -- it should also be able to write non-fedora isoz to usb
04:27  * jml2 wasn't telling anyone to download "fedora iso" :P
04:28 < jml2> now try defining GNU
04:28 < jml2> "what is root" ? the root of....
04:29 < kalinite> writing image
04:29 < kalinite> GNU Not Unix
04:30 < jml2> yep, but you forgot "is" :p
04:30 < kalinite> GIU
04:30 < kalinite> GUI?
04:30 < kalinite> who knows
04:30 < jml2> GNU is NOT a UNIX
04:30  * kalinite shrugs
04:31 < kalinite> gnu is not a gui interfacce made in vb
04:31 < jml2> i like my zalman ve-300 .. i just dump isoz on a filesystem and they become physical cd-rom drives on boot :P
04:31 < kalinite> cool
04:32 < jml2> very few isoz are not "usb-ready" and this fixes the issue...
04:32 < jml2> better than hooking-up a usb-cdrom drive and burning a stupid cd..
04:32 < kalinite> jm12 now that ive written onto the usb
04:32 < kalinite> what do
04:32 < jml2> kalinite, it should be ready to boot
04:32 < kalinite> I have not managed to surpass this stage
04:32 < jml2> well try it this time
04:33 < kalinite> so i just gently tap f12 on boot?
04:33 < jml2> if you're stuck on windows 10, then go for virtualbox
04:33 < kalinite> might have to vb
04:33 < jml2> I have no idea what you should do next, that's your homework :)
04:34  * jml2 wonders the word "kali" in a user's name
04:34 < kalinite> :c okai
04:34 < jml2> just to tell you I don't like kali users :)
04:34 < jml2> lol
04:34 < kalinite> lolol
04:34 < TheNH813> Did someone say Kali Linux?
04:34 < kalinite> yes
04:34 < kalinite> hi
04:34 < TheNH813> Hai
04:34 < kalinite> how do?
04:34 < TheNH813> gud
04:35 < jml2> TheNH813, he can't even define GNU appropriately.. so I played along with it :)
04:35 < jml2> TheNH813, LOL
04:35 < kalinite> i already have kali in vb
04:35 < TheNH813> Honestly, I haven't tried Kali in ages.
04:35 < kalinite> i want to get debian booted off a drive
04:35 < jml2> kalinite, you've been punked bitch :)
04:35 < TheNH813> I used to use BackTrack often.
04:35  * jml2 munches on the chips :))
04:35 < kalinite> i believe its pronounced
04:35 < kalinite> >back|track
04:36 < TheNH813> Yeah, there is a dash in the name
04:36 < kalinite> :P
04:36 < kalinite> the quiter you become, the more you are able to hear
04:36 < kalinite> such a cool phrase
04:36 < kalinite> its true aswell
04:36 < TheNH813> Very true.
04:36 < kalinite> silence listens to everything
04:37 < TheNH813> What silence? I can't hear anything over the 3 320GB HDDs in my PC.
04:37 < kalinite> lol
04:37 < kalinite> my 1tb ssd is silence
04:37 < kalinite> and it can hear your magnets spinning
04:38 < jml2> kalinite, you're not a very bright student kali
04:38 < jml2> kalinite, did you finish your school work today?
04:38 < kalinite> hm.
04:38 < jml2> kalinite, you need to get some sleep, it's past your curfew
04:38 < kalinite> I do not attend school.
04:39 < kalinite> if you are refering to >and it can hear your magnets spinning
04:39 < jml2> kalinite, do you know what the word curfew means?
04:39 < kalinite> then I meant metal disk of slowness
04:39 < kalinite> yes
04:39 < kalinite> something I don't need or require
04:39 < jml2> kalinite, well then go to bed cuz you're gunna need it
04:40 < kalinite> y tho
04:40 < kalinite> do you even know what time zone I am in?
04:40 < kalinite> you can guess
04:40 < jim> utc?
04:41 < kalinite> nope
04:41 < TheNH813> I would be able to guess quite well if you weren't using a web IRC client.
04:41 < kalinite> unless you forgot the offset
04:41 < TheNH813> But I'l say UTC-6
04:41 < kalinite> o rly
04:41 < kalinite> i use a vpn
04:41 < kalinite> GMT+0.
04:41 < triceratux> jml2: cool it with the implicit insults or the sjws will come for you https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LLVM-Rafael-Espindola
04:42 < TheNH813> Well, usually even a VPN picks the closest server.
04:42 < kalinite> lol
04:42 < kalinite> i have my favs
04:42 < kalinite> like ukraine
04:42 < kalinite> and amsterdam
04:42 < jim> because youre not used to stuff here... you get a reminder :) please spell out u as you, it helps people (particularly new english speakers) to understand, at least, most of what's going on
04:43 < kalinite> even israel
04:43 < kalinite> hi jim
04:43 < jim> by the way, did you ever get that thing booted? :)
04:43 < kalinite> no lol :P
04:44 < jim> damn
04:44 < kalinite> I even did a full circle of writing the iso again
04:45 < kalinite> i might just virtual machine it
04:45 < kalinite> like kali
04:45 < kalinite> inb4 hackerman memes
04:45 < Evidlo> I wish whatsapp would die
04:45 < jim> I don;'t even think it got to reading it... I saw something online that said the function keys have two modes
04:45 < kalinite> signal >>> whatsapp
04:45 < jml2> triceratux, whatta douche, so he wants to have the license change after 13 years? lol
04:45 < Evidlo> matrix > all others
04:46 < kalinite> jim, i needed to press fn + f12
04:46 < kalinite> Evidlo, what is matrix
04:46 < jim> right, I think that's what I read
04:47 < kalinite> is matrix an open source encrypted messenger?
04:47 < kalinite> tbh IRC >>> all
04:47 < Evidlo> kalinite: from an end user perspective, its like a non commercialized whatsapp/signal/telegram
04:47 < kalinite> nice
04:47 < triceratux> jml2: read thru the comments. theres more at issue than the license
04:47 < jim> what happened after th fn f12
04:47 < jim> ?
04:47 < Evidlo> its like email in that anyone can run a server and all the servers communicate with each other, unlike signal or telegram
04:48 < kalinite> jim, just went to winderp  normally
04:48 < kalinite> Evidlo: sounds good
04:48 < kalinite> is it worth migrating to? My friends are reluctant to switch from whatsapp to better things
04:48 < jim> so you didnt even get aboot order menu\
04:49 < kalinite> I'm sick of the bright theme
04:49 < kalinite> jim: I didnt
04:49 < jim> I guess try in virtual box
04:50 < Evidlo> well one selling point is that many matrix servers are running bridges that connect to telegram, signal, gitter, discord and irc
04:50 < Evidlo> so you can reach all those services through matrix
04:50 < kalinite> yeah i'll probably end up doing that
04:50 < kalinite> Evidlo: well thats sold me
04:50 < kalinite> also matrices are great
04:50 < kalinite> they just are
04:50 < kalinite> and thats how it is
04:52 < kalinite> how do i get matrix
04:52 < kalinite> Evidlo:
04:52 < Evidlo> riot.im/app
04:52 < kalinite> nice
04:52 < Evidlo> riot is to hexchat as matrix is to irc
04:54 < kalinite> making account lol
04:54 < jim> the image should boot in virtual box
04:54 < kalinite> yeah i dont have a multibooting vb instaled atm
04:55 < jim> ok...
04:56 < kalinite> my phone charger is totally sucks ass
04:56 < kalinite> and im trying to do to many things at once
04:56 < kalinite> so nothing gets done
04:57 < kalinite> >_>;
04:57 < kalinite> swapping batteries
05:00 < kalinite> 2 batteries = 200% battery
05:00 < kalinite> win
05:02 < jeffree> are there any good desktop environments? in gnome, doing something as simple as changing the text editor color theme is not clear. I would like to avoid nonsense
05:02 < jeffree> maybe I expect too much
05:03 < triceratux> jeffree: xfce is the only hope
05:03 < epicmetal> let the DE wars begin!
05:03 < jeffree> lol
05:03 < jim> kalinite, let me ask you this... if you were to move the boot64.efi file to another place, is there any way to restore it without windows?
05:03 < jeffree> it's been awhile since I tried xfce or others than gnome
05:04 < epicmetal> jeffree: KDE is good but their file indexing is shit. Maybe KDE+Recoll
05:04 < epicmetal> at least that's what i'm going to try when i have time
05:04 < jeffree> every time I tried KDE way back, I had some kind of problem, can't remember what
05:04 < epicmetal> (currently also on gnome)
05:05 < epicmetal> jeffree: yeah, it has been buggy for ages, but it's getting better
05:05 < epicmetal> until they decide to do another "major release"
05:05 < epicmetal> but it's the same for gnome
05:05 < jeffree> microsoft needs to get into linux soon
05:05 < epicmetal> lol no
05:05 < epicmetal> they already are, they provide a linux subsystem
05:06 < jeffree> I would be willing to pay a few hundred dollars per year to have good software
05:06 < epicmetal> jeffree: so run windows 10 and use the linux subsystem
05:06 < jeffree> fuck windows
05:06 < epicmetal> spydows
05:06 < jim> do those have 8 legs?
05:06 < jml2> epicmetal, ms made its first full linux embedded distribution about 2-3 weeks ago
05:06 < epicmetal> 8 tentacles
05:06 < epicmetal> jml2: which one
05:07 < jml2> epicmetal, only one
05:07 < epicmetal> jml2: what's the name
05:07 < jml2> epicmetal, i'm a cop
05:07 < Dr_Coke> oh my arse
05:07 < jeffree> yeah sphere
05:07 < jml2> epicmetal, i work for dah gnu police
05:07 < epicmetal> riiight
05:07 < jml2> epicmetal, got you punk!
05:07 < jml2> epicmetal, MS didn't invent ****
05:08 < jml2> epicmetal, but who am I trust right right? hmmmmm?? :P
05:08 < jim> use a gnu, go to jail
05:09 < toothe> I have some /etc/xinetd.d/* files. Is there a way to change the values in it via a shell script
05:09 < toothe> ie, disable  = yes
05:09 < toothe> change that to disable = no
05:09 < toothe> is there a way to do that via a bashs cript?
05:10 < toothe> bash script*
05:11 < rumpel> toothe, yes
05:11 < rumpel> toothe, e.g. using sed
05:12 < rumpel> toogley, http://sed.sourceforge.net/sed1line.txt
05:29 < baconicsynergy> was PREEMPT_RT ever merged into mainline linux?
05:30 < baconicsynergy> im running 4.4 right meow
05:30 < baconicsynergy> if so, how can i tell?
05:30 < simbalion> apps should tab-complete their arguments.. wouldn't that be posix compliant?
05:30 < baconicsynergy> *I should know this*...
05:30 < stevendale> I haven't tried the Debian live images for years.. Are they any better?
05:30 < simbalion> afk
05:30 < baconicsynergy> Debian 9 has been a fantastic experience for me
05:31 < baconicsynergy> if you have finicky hardware, grab the live usb with non-free firmware
05:31 < baconicsynergy> but non-free firmware is cursed so beware! :D
05:31 < kalinite> nice
05:31 < stevendale> I wonder if Debian 9 x86 Live LXDE will be any faster than Lubuntu x86...
05:32 < triceratux> stevendale: debian 9.4 xfce is just peachy actually. there was a time when it didnt have a displaymanager & there was hardware that couldnt boot it. its better these days
05:32 < kalinite> and yeah fuck windows
05:32 < toothe> rumpel: I would be interested in how you do that :)
05:33 < baconicsynergy> kalinite, windows be damned!
05:33 < stevendale> 2 gigs though... for debian-live-9.4.0-i386-lxde.iso... will take 45~ minutes to download
05:33 < kalinite> bonbows
05:33 < dannylee> its not just the government...the churches are microchiping...5 million people a year...and the corperation...like microsoft..
05:33 < kalinite> need that fiber tho
05:34 < kalinite> dennylee, doesnt surprise me
05:34 < kalinite> but its still quite scary
05:34  * stevendale looks at his 512 MB RAM and looks at baconicsynergy
05:34 < kalinite> the penguins shall rise
05:35 < kalinite> oh java just got an update
05:35 < kalinite> what a pile of wank
05:35 < kalinite> i believe the best java syntax known to man is system.exit(0);
05:36 < baconicsynergy> lol
05:36 < baconicsynergy> java is so ubiquitous its almost impossible to avoid it
05:36 < rypervenche> That's going to be my new motto. "What a pile of wank"
05:36 < kalinite> its in everything
05:36 < kalinite> soon it will be in people
05:36 < epicmetal> baconicsynergy: Debian 9 on X220 with GNOME == bug in libinput which means horrificly slow trackpad tracking
05:36 < kalinite> in the chips
05:36 < baconicsynergy> nooooo
05:36 < epicmetal> I guess no Linux folks use one of the most popular ThinkPads of all time
05:36 < kalinite> soon it will even be in coffee
05:36 < baconicsynergy> epicmetal, dang!
05:36 < epicmetal> baconicsynergy: it was brutal
05:37 < baconicsynergy> epicmetal, have to upgraded to testing repos?
05:37 < baconicsynergy> you*
05:37 < epicmetal> baconicsynergy: no, went back to Arch where I have minimal issues
05:37 < baconicsynergy> epicmetal, good man, thats what i would've done
05:37 < epicmetal> baconicsynergy: I'd run Sid over Testing
05:37 < epicmetal> Testing is the worst of all worlds
05:37 < baconicsynergy> sid is fun but i like the quasi-stability of testing
05:38 < epicmetal> Unless it's post-freeze of course
05:38 < epicmetal> Meh
05:38 < baconicsynergy> stevendale, lolololol
05:39 < kalinite> lol when you read back through the logs and find gold
05:41 < baconicsynergy> If I was microchipped, it better be run on seL4 and completely free
05:41 < kalinite> lol
05:41 < baconicsynergy> with the ability to run supertux
05:42 < kalinite> I want a tegra x1 so I can do the non-calc paper instantly
05:43 < kalinite> touch screen windows still feels weird
05:43 < kalinite> its good for prototyping phone apps though
05:43  * baconicsynergy looks up tegra x1
05:43 < kalinite> nvidea chip m8
05:44 < kalinite> get all the TFLOPS
05:44 < baconicsynergy> get those tflopsssss
05:44 < kalinite> apparantly theres an x2 now aswell
05:45 < kalinite> 8k encoding/decoding
05:45 < baconicsynergy> dayum
05:45  * kalinite is solid
05:45 < kalinite> 4k is enough for a phone
05:46 < kalinite> or tablet... lets be honest here
05:48 < kalinite> the Xavier chip has a bus width of.... wait for it... 256 bits
05:48 < kalinite> hnnnngggg
05:48 < kalinite> chip me the fuck up with one of those, so long as i flash my own rom
05:49 < baconicsynergy> lolol
05:49 < kalinite> i think they are using some of this chip arcitecture for use in autonomous cars
05:49 < kalinite> makes sense i guess, all that image processing
05:51 < baconicsynergy> My father works with GM, can confirm
05:51 < kalinite> i can fold my laptop backwards to flat and use it for 3lite hax under my desk
05:51 < baconicsynergy> can't say anymore without him getting fired though
05:51 < kalinite> confirmed
05:51 < kalinite> lol ok
05:51 < kalinite> say no more
05:51 < baconicsynergy> :)
05:51 < stevendale> https://l3net.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/deb-cmp1.png https://l3net.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/ub-cmp1.png
05:52  * baconicsynergy goes afk to exercise
05:52 < stevendale> That's some old versions, but in those images Lubuntu used double the RAM than Debian LXDE
05:52 < kalinite> lol unity
05:54  * kalinite for(;;){fap();}
05:58 < baconicsynergy> unity is finally gone, except for some lte weirdos
05:58 < baconicsynergy> i havent tried out 18.04 yet, how is it with GNOME?
05:58 < baconicsynergy> did they finally bring balance to the universe?
05:58 < stevendale> 18.04 is crap in all the desktops
05:58 < baconicsynergy> stevendale, dang i was hoping for some goodies
05:59 < baconicsynergy> I seriously wouldn't mind GNOME if they made a.. whats it called... universal toolbar?
05:59 < baconicsynergy> like what they did with unity
05:59 < baconicsynergy> someone enlighten me
06:00 < baconicsynergy> so much space is wasted!!
06:00 < jeffree> baconicsynergy: I think there is one in the overview window
06:01 < baconicsynergy> Ah yes! Global menu
06:01 < baconicsynergy> i think
06:01 < baconicsynergy> thats the one thing unity got right, and they got it SO right
06:01 < baconicsynergy> everything else sucked though
06:01 < jeffree> I always found it weird
06:02 < markasoftware> KDE has a nice taskbar. Just sayin'
06:02 < toothe> does anyone know to change a value in a file like /etc/xinetd.d/* via a shell-script?
06:02 < jeffree> I'm now at a point that no DE feels right to me, I think
06:02 < markasoftware> toothe: sed?
06:02 < baconicsynergy> jeffree, i feel you.
06:02 < toothe> how exactly? :)
06:02 < toothe> i dunno what to match for.
06:02 < baconicsynergy> was gonna say sed
06:02 < markasoftware> well what do you need to do, exactly?
06:03 < markasoftware> you said change a value, which implies just s/old value/new value/ you'll need to tell us what you want if you need something more complex
06:03 < jeffree> somehow gnome 2(?) shell felt right and after that I was lost
06:03 < toothe> so, I have a calue called disable  = yes
06:03 < markasoftware> well there's all those gnome 2 lookalike things now
06:03 < toothe> I want to change disable to no.
06:03 < markasoftware> s/disable = yes/disable = no/
06:03 < markasoftware> ?
06:03 < jeffree> yeah, I think mate is supposed to be that
06:04 < markasoftware> mate is a fork, right?
06:04 < baconicsynergy> I'm running GNOME, KDE Plasma, MATE, Xfce, and i3 and none of them are satisfyingly perfect yet
06:04 < jeffree> I think so
06:04 < baconicsynergy> except i3, praise the i3 gods
06:05 < jeffree> I thinnk brain/computer interface is the next step, then DE and most stuff will become obsolete
06:05 < markasoftware> > hasn't used xmonad, awesome, or bspwm
06:05 < baconicsynergy> yeah
06:05 < markasoftware> stop pretending to be a REAL arch user
06:05 < baconicsynergy> lololol
06:05 < giaco> hello
06:05 < jim> hi
06:06 < baconicsynergy> i should fsck around with bspwm, only heard fun things about it
06:06 < markasoftware> if i were to use a tiling wm again, i'd do dwm
06:06 < markasoftware> because i like recompiling programs to change configuration values
06:07 < baconicsynergy> heheheh
06:07 < baconicsynergy> in all honesty, i stopped at i3 once i got used to it and never attempted any other. It gave me everything I needed, so I found no use. Don't hurt me!
06:08 < giaco> I need to find out what is changing the niceness of a process. I am using linuxbrew to install/compile stuff, but there's something that changes the niceness of part of the process hierarchy to 10 instead of 0. I am working into a powerful mainframe but I cannot understand if it is a linuxbrew problem or a os quirk. How can I debug this?
06:08 < Majora320> once you get a full configuration set up the inertia is hard to break away from
06:10 < jml2> phewph i fixed my wordpress tehehehe
06:10 < jml2> boy oh boy
06:12 < jeffree> are any of you guys one of those portrait (vertical) oriented monitor weirdos?
06:12 < jaggz> when piping and wanting unbuffered (or line buffered, or whatever stdbuf -i0 -o0 does), do I need it on each command?
06:13 < giaco> jaggz: yes
06:13  * jim begins monitoring weirdos
06:14 < SporkWitch> jeffree: it's actually really useful for dealing with long documents and web pages
06:14 < jaggz> giaco, thanks :)
06:14 < jeffree> I have my monitor in an atriculating arm, so changing orientation is easy, it's just... weird
06:14 < jim> jeffree, I dunno if I'd like a vertical monitor or not
06:15 < jeffree> I have been curious if it's a common practice though
06:15 < SporkWitch> many of the devs at my office do it
06:15 < jeffree> hmm
06:15 < SporkWitch> allows a lot more code on screen at a time
06:16 < jeffree> yeah, I can imagine
06:16 < jim> asking if we're a weirdoh is probably not the way to communicate that :)
06:16 < jeffree> lol, that is how I see it though :)
06:16 < jeffree> I'm not a coder, so I'm a bit ignorant about this
06:16 < snugger> How many of you are trying to emacs-ify your workflow? e.g. WM = stumpwm, browser = next-browser, ect.
06:17 < jeffree> I could also imagine someone wanting side by side text windows on horizontal orientation
06:17 < jim> I get that about you  :) and, it's a judgement that you might want to leave out :) you'll get a more balanced response that way
06:17 < jeffree> ok, well it was meant to be humorous more than an insult
06:18 < jim> ok, I get that too... you'd be looking through either -your- weirdo filter or -theirs- when the response comes back
06:18 < SporkWitch> jeffree: all comes down to what you're doing at the time
06:18 < jeffree> yeah
06:19 < jeffree> so, they switch sometimes?
06:19 < SporkWitch> of course; vertical orientation isn't ideal for everything
06:19 < jeffree> cool
06:20 < SporkWitch> there's a reason most monitors that support it come with rotating mounts and dynamically change resolution accordingly
06:20 < Dan39> oh that would be nice
06:20 < Dan39> my cheap ass work got me mount that doesnt rotate though :(
06:21 < stevendale> :P
06:21 < jim> well some of those monitor setups, like you have, is set up to turn 90 degrees to the other orientation, and (like SporkWitch says) automatically informs the OS that it changed, and the os responds by repainting the whole display
06:22  * stevendale considers Debian Wheezy LXDE
06:22 < jeffree> oh, mine doesn't have a sensor, that would be nice
06:22 < jim> wheezy? that's stable - 2
06:22 < stevendale> It'd be lighter than Jessie or Stretch
06:23 < Dan39> might as well go back further
06:23 < jim> maybe... wheezy had a lot of packages
06:23 < jim> and, you didn't have to have them all installed
06:24 < Dan39> go back to etch
06:24 < stevendale> No thanks Dan39
06:24 < Dan39> itll probably be better
06:24 < stevendale> No.
06:24 < jim> etch,,, then stretch... then who knows? blech?
06:25 < jeffree> alright, trying i3 now
06:25 < Dan39> just upgrade a few things like firefox :P
06:25 < jim> jeffree, you gotta learn the key commands for i3
06:25 < jeffree> yeah, I'll give up
06:26 < jim> once you have the 3 or 4 main ones, you should be ok
06:27 < jml2> support for wheezy lts is over iirc
06:27 < stevendale> Not yet
06:27 < jml2> up to may 31st
06:27 < jml2> after that no more updates
06:27 < Dan39> dont need no support!
06:27 < jml2> ( https://wiki.debian.org/LTS  )
06:28 < stevendale> Wrong I can update stuff myself jml2
06:28 < jml2> stevendale, good boy
06:28 < jml2> lol
06:28 < jml2> try squeeze :)
06:28 < littlecaicai> nice man
06:29 < stevendale> Installing Wheezy w/ LXDE on my Inspiron 6000 with 512 MB DDR2 Dual-Channel @ 400 MHz... With a nice big 1.1 GB swap partition
06:30 < promet> When shasum generates it's verification code, is it "guaranteed" that a "fail" will be radically different, or is there a possibility, however slim, that the resulting code could be confusingly similar?
06:30 < jeffree> ok, leaning the shortcuts is necessary
06:32 < jml2> promet, very diffcult, it would take a genius to beat that
06:32 < jml2> promet, md5sum and sha256sum the image, thta makes it even more remote
06:33 < jml2> promet, btw it's called a hash, it's just a math calculation on values,  it only lets you know if there was a defect in the download
06:34 < jml2> promet, it is almost impossible to tamper and inject an exploit without changing the hash output
06:35 < likcoras> promet: one of the main requirements of a proper cryptographic hash function is that every bit changed leads to about half of the hash bits being changed. ie. hash values are not similar to the original.
06:36 < jml2> techbabble, he's asking about .iso things..
06:37 < giaco> If process A has nice 0, process A forks into B, B forks into C. If C has nice 10, how can I force it to be 0 from A?
06:37 < giaco> Basically, how can I control the niceness of a group of processes, not just one?
06:37 < jml2> well here my dns names suck.. i'm never happy with my dns choices lol
06:38 < jml2> gotta do me some wordpress tegeeh
06:40 < jcarder_> I am dual booting Windows and Linux, when I resized my windows partition (to use the extra space for linux) I could no longer mount the windows partition and view my files on it. Only until after I resized the win partition back to it's original size could I mount it. Why is this so? and is there a way around this? thanks!
06:41 < stevendale> jcarder_: You need to defragment your hard drive in Windows
06:41 < stevendale> There was files located on the drive in the bit where you resized
06:51 < stevendale> Debian LXDE is starting :D
06:51 < promet> jml2, likcoras, thanks!
06:51 < stevendale> 45 MB ram used (reserved, non usable)
06:51 < stevendale> Amazing
06:54 < jcarder_> stevendale: ahh that makes sense, is there anyway to do this from my linux installation, windows is doesn't boot properly
06:54 < likcoras> Damn... I can only get my system down to ~200MB when doing nothing.
06:54 < deusstultus> usually when I'm looking at my ram usage lately it's on the other end of the spectrum.  111GB?  Perfect, I still have margin.
06:55 < likcoras> You have 128G ram?
07:01 < stevendale> Running dist-upgrade on Debian Wheezy :)
07:02 < stevendale> (Enabled security repo)
07:12 < toothe> I think....virtualbox's guest additions is broken on FreeBSD
07:12 < toothe> resizing the window doesn't do anything.
07:13 < well_laid_lawn> ↑well #linux is the place to sort that out
07:13 < toothe> oh wait...
07:14 < toothe> wrong channel
07:18 < hotbobby> is there any way to have multiple users look at the same screen session?
07:19 < well_laid_lawn> that is sharing the root X session afaik
07:19 < well_laid_lawn> iirc only xvnc does that
07:19 < hotbobby> x isnt even installed on this server though
07:20 < hotbobby> i would like to just show another user what i am doing at the terminal in real time, while they can also input commands
07:21 < zap0> how do i see where an  "apt-get update"  got upto before they system crashed?
07:21 < well_laid_lawn> hotbobby:  try having a screen session - they can connect to that
07:24 < promet> also, by the by, can anyone recommend a gui-front-end for openssl encryption/decryption? The cli is great, until you have to do "many" ;)
07:25 < promet> file encryption, that is...
07:32 < KekSi> promet: just loop over the files - cli is even greater for "many"
07:33 < promet> KekSi, thanks! I don't know how that works, but will #rtfm ;)
07:34 < KekSi> promet: https://stackoverflow.com/a/20796617/2046162
07:37 < KekSi> just an example, basically you just want to loop over all files (for RUNTIME_VARIABLE in file1 file2 file3 file4 ; do openssl x509 -subject -in $RUNTIME_VARIABLE ; done # would be an example to read the subject line of the variables file1 to file4)
07:41 < Jonno_FTW> how can I disconnect immediately after making an ssh connection?
07:42 < Dagmar> That's probably an x-y problem, but use the command "exit", or heck, "/bin/true"
07:42 < Dagmar> You can tell ssh to simply _run a command_ on the remote end instead of spawning a shell
07:42 < Dagmar> When the command is done the connection will exit
07:43 < Dagmar> If you're trying to verify that a key actually _works_ you should be aiming for "/bin/true" and explicitly specifying the key to use
07:44 < KekSi> yup, ssh someuser@somehost ls -lah would open the ssh connection, run the command and disconnect -- works with small scripts aswell like ssh somewhere 'ls -lah | grep something | do something else'
07:44 < promet> KekSi, roger that, thanks very much for your time!
07:44 < KekSi> promet: np :)
07:59 < rangergord> Hey. Anyone here on Ubuntu 18.04? Is it better than 16.04 or not worth the bother at this point?
08:00 < jcarder_> yea I'm on 18.04
08:00 < jcarder_> never used 16.04 so I can't say
08:00 < jcarder_> I'd wait though
08:01 < stevendale> Hey :)
08:01 < stevendale>  HexChat: 2.10.0 ** OS: Linux 3.2.0-6-686-pae i686 ** Distro: Debian 7.11 ** CPU: 1 x Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.73GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 800MHz ** RAM: Physical: 494.1MiB, 83.8% free ** Disk: Total: 54.0GiB, 88.1% free ** VGA: 8086:2592 ** Sound: ICH4 - Intel ICH61: ICH-MODEM - Intel ICH6 Modem ** Ethernet: 14e4:170c ** Uptime: 34m 44s **
08:02 < rangergord> k
08:03 < sauvin> stevendale, I see you do that one more time, you're done.
08:03 < stevendale> sauvin, :P
08:03 < jcarder_> lol
08:03 < Sveta> he is not kidding
08:04 < stevendale> Hehe
08:06 < neoncortex> b
08:06 < neoncortex> err
08:08 < kalinite> just went to #archlinux
08:08 < kalinite> wtf is that place
08:08 < stevendale> kalinite, Script kiddies
08:09 < kalinite> >Script kiddies
08:09 < kalinite> confirmed
08:18  * sauvin prepares to play with gimp 2.10, latest stable release
08:20 < rangergord> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+cdmirrors lists some mirrors that use rsync. But how am I supposed to browse the remote directory to see the file structure and decide which file to download?
08:20 < hexnewbie> 2.10 got out? Woohoo. Too bad that I would never be upgrading my distro again, so I would never be using it. ;)
08:21 < Sveta> hexnewbie, how'd you achieve not upgrading your distro again?
08:21 < Dagmar> rangergod: You *wouldn't* use rsync for looking
08:21 < Dagmar> rangergord: Typically you're expected to just clone the whole thing, otherwise there wouldn't be _any point in using rsync_
08:22 < rangergord> Dagmar: how is that typical? that directory contains every single Ubuntu release. I just want one iso :P
08:22 < hexnewbie> Sveta: Not sure yet, but security updates should be there for at least two years for Debian 8 Jessie. After that, I don't know. I try Debian 10 Buster and see if it is still a disaster and figure out what to do, I guess
08:22 < Dagmar> Sveta: Just write down his hostname for future amusements
08:22 < Dagmar> rangergord: Then don't use the rsync mirrors
08:22 < Sveta> hexnewbie, what's wrong with debian 9 today?
08:22 < rangergord> guess I'll browse by http, rsync should follow the same structure
08:22 < Dagmar> It generally will
08:23 < Dagmar> If you just need one ISO just hit it with https
08:23 < rangergord> Dagmar: if I could do that then I would've. I'm on the world's shittiest internet connection, I need reliably resumable downloads.
08:23 < Dagmar> Well guess what
08:23 < Dagmar> Practically everything supports HTTP resume nowadaus
08:24 < rangergord> except all major browsers, you mean
08:24 < rangergord> I could use wget but since I've never used it for this, dunno if I can trust it. I figure rsync is the most reliable.
08:24 < Dagmar> Use curl or wget for this
08:24 < Dagmar> You want to download it, not _look at it_ in a web browser
08:25 < hexnewbie> Sveta: KDE and Qt, mostly. Erratic mouse wheel in Qt programs (can't scroll), Plasma 5 using 100% CPU when anything is animated, having to restore Plasma config from backup every morning (it forgets it), having to restore KMail filters from backup every morning (it forgets it), desktop effect corruptions (windows flickering in and out of existence),
08:25 < sauvin> hexnewbie, I'm on the fence about updating or upgrading the Ubuntu I'm using now. I *can't* use the newest Gimp on my present setup because my dev libs are too old. I'm doing the flatpak thing.,
08:26 < Dagmar> It's not like it's hard to compile
08:26 < sauvin> "dev libs too old" but gimp would be easy to build?
08:26 < Dagmar> I didn't say "fast"
08:27 < hexnewbie> Also, Unicode drag & drop is broken between Qt 5 and GTK+2 programs for some reason.
08:27 < Dagmar> Understand that I've also been compiling Gimp since freakin ever
08:27 < Sveta> hexnewbie, do you have bug reports for any of these?
08:28 < hexnewbie> sauvin: I do have a Debian 9 chroot, so I guess when GIMP 2.10 is added to Debian 10, I may use stretch-backports to get it.
08:28 < Dagmar> sauvin: You can "brute force" your way through it by hammering ./configure with every option you *know* you want, and install or upgrade missing deps when configure croaks
08:28 < sauvin> I didn't feel like waiting. On my present setup, the "caged" thing hangs gimp.
08:29 < sauvin> Dagmar, yeah, I know. If I had a free Saturday afternoon to waste, I'd do that.
08:29 < Dagmar> Couple hours, tops
08:30 < hexnewbie> Sveta: I'm waiting for the KDE bugs I reported in 2010 to get fixed, then I may consider. :) KDE is not fan of fixing bugs like ever. The 100% Plasma CPU things is several bugs on their tracker, most of them ‘fixed’, IIRC. Some are fixed upstream, and Debian is not in a hurry to backports the fixes (not security). The forgetting of the Plasma config is ‘intended’ behaviour triggered by God knows what impossible to reproduce.
08:30 < JackMa> hello i use pi to use ssh, can i use 2 terminal at same time to run same script?
08:30 < Dagmar> It was only about eight minutes actual compiling time when I last measured it
08:30 < Dagmar> JackMa: Yeah
08:30 < Sveta> hexnewbie, yea I am looking for a desktop env (a collection of apps in the same ui toolkit) that actively fixes bugs and is easy to program for, too
08:30 < JackMa> Dagmar: how?
08:30 < Dagmar> Are you at the keyboard, connected straight to it?
08:31 < JackMa> yeah
08:31 < Dagmar> ctrl-alt-f1 through f6 should flip through vt's, and several of them should be plain text logins
08:32 < JackMa> what is vt's
08:32 < JackMa> ?
08:32 < Dagmar> Virtual terminals
08:32 < JackMa> Dagmar: if i use tmux?
08:33 < Dagmar> You have that as an option as well
08:33 < JackMa> then i can run 2 script at same time?
08:33 < hexnewbie> Sveta: Oh, one of the bugs I had voted for (though not reported myself), just got closed with WONTFIX. Splendid: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=275112 :)
08:33 < JackMa> Dagmar: then i will use tmux
08:33 < JackMa> i will try it
08:33 < JackMa> :)
08:33 < Dagmar> Yeah just launch tmux, start one, spawn a new window with tmux, start another one
08:35  * hexnewbie guesses removing features is one way to fix bugs
08:35 < Dagmar> Why wouldn't it work?
08:36 < Dagmar> Sometimes you just gotta say, "Okay, f**k these last 35 edits.  I am writing garbage."
08:38 < sauvin> Hrm... Gimp 2.10 sure looks snazzy.
08:40 < JackMa> Dagmar: when i run second script at tmux, second don’t work
08:40 < JackMa> :(
08:40 < Dagmar> I feel like I should ask for a moment of alone time with "You now have both linear and perceptual versions of most blending modes."
08:40 < hexnewbie> Dagmar: Well, it's true. I've reported at least one more bug with the feature that never got fixed and rendered it difficult to use. It's also true that displaying what is being overwritten by what is essential (as in metadata) when you're being asked about it, so getting rid of it altogether will simply make me go back to mc.
08:42 < hexnewbie> It's funny how it can take you 10 years to figure how to display mtime and file size, and then give up, say screw it and decide just not to.
08:42 < Dagmar> I use scp for remote filesystems and well...
08:42 < sauvin> Dagmar, dunno about that, but yeah, lots more MODES here to mess with.
08:42 < Dagmar> I make *damn* sure I'm not going to overwrite anything that shoudln't be overwritten by _being careful_
08:43 < jim> JackMa. (I -just now- sat down, so gimme a chance here...) when you say the script doesn't work, what doesn't it actually do that you want? what does it do that you don't want?
08:43 < JackMa> jim: it works now,so i run 2 scritp at same time now. :)
08:44 < hexnewbie> Dagmar: Being careful includes doing more checks, removing one check removes carefulness. And it's especially useful when I'm doing two-directional sync with Krusader (I guess I can go back to unison for that), and I'm suddenly presented with a file modified on both sides.
08:45 < jim> oh, ok... good enough
08:47 < jim> JackMa, one thing I'd like to explain, is that when you're telling someone what's wrong, and you say "it doesn't work", they might think: "but wait a minute, isn't that why he's talking to me about his script? I already know it 'doesn't work'", and they get confused...
08:47 < neoncortex> I can just imagine how complicated is to write and maintain something like KDE
08:48 < hexnewbie> neoncortex: I guess that's why they've made the hard choice to just do one of those. ;p
08:48 < jim> JackMa, that's why I would say "doesn't work" is worse than no information...
08:48 < JackMa> :) jim ok thanks
08:48 < neoncortex> hexnewbie: haha
08:49 < jim> JackMa, and it's better to say "well, it doesn't do A, and it doesn't do B, and when it does C, D and E, I wish it would do F and G"
08:49 < JackMa> ok i will do it in the future :) jim
08:50 < jim> JackMa, in other words (as I said before), you should say something like: "it doesn't work because..." and explain what it doesn't do that it should, and what it does do that it shouldn't
08:51 < jim> anyway, that's it...
08:51 < jim> itz tamale time!
08:51 < JackMa> jim: i think that raspberry pi have small ram, so it is late when it excute something
08:52 < jim> for more ram, you can buy more (aka throw money at it)
08:53 < jim> I can see that
08:56 < stevendale> There was M&Ms in the fridge and I didn't even realize :(
08:58 < sauvin> Man, you freeze your M&Ms? Dat some COLD shizzle, bro!
09:00 < Craig> frozen chocolate is the best chocolate, sauvin
09:01 < sauvin> I've always found warm chocolate best. Frozen chocolate is nearly tasteless.
09:03 < JackMa> how can i see ram usage?
09:04 < stevendale> JackMa, free -m
09:04 < stevendale> I use lxtask though JackMa
09:05 < JackMa>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
09:05 < JackMa> Mem:           925        288        637          6         17        163
09:05 < JackMa> -/+ buffers/cache:        107        818
09:05 < JackMa> Swap:           99          0         99
09:05 < Sveta> sauvin, we put our chocolate in the fridge when it's over 35°C outdoors, to prevent it from melting; but not into the freezer
09:05 < JackMa> stevendale: this is ok?
09:05 < stevendale> JackMa, Not in the channel :(
09:05 < Sveta> JackMa, add h for human readable output
09:05 < Sveta> JackMa, free -mh
09:05 < sauvin> The rule is four lines or less, I think.
09:06 < JackMa> 925M       288M       637M <—— free is 637M then i can run more script?
09:06 < Sveta> JackMa, if it does not run out of cpu or disk space or another limit
09:06 < JackMa> Sveta: how can i know cpu usage?
09:07 < stevendale> JackMa, top
09:07 < stevendale> Run it in terminal, not in IRC
09:07 < Sveta> JackMa, 'top'
09:08 < JackMa> too complicated
09:08 < JackMa> how can i escape from it?
09:08 < JackMa> there is a concise command than top?
09:09 < stevendale> JackMa, Press Q to exit it
09:09 < JackMa> stevendale: thanks
09:09 < stevendale> JackMa, Try installing 'lxtask' and running that instead
09:09 < JackMa> (lxtask:1788): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:   stevendale
09:10 < stevendale> Oh are you headless JackMa
09:10 < JackMa> i use ssh now :(
09:10 < JackMa> yeah
09:10 < stevendale> JackMa, You can use htop
09:10 < stevendale> 'htop'
09:10 < JackMa> htop
09:10 < JackMa> -bash: htop: command not found
09:10 < JackMa> stevendale: ?
09:10 < stevendale> You'll have to install it
09:10 < JackMa> how?
09:10 < furrymcgee> watch more /proc/meminfo
09:10 < stevendale> Same way you installed lxtask
09:11 < JackMa> sudo apt-get install htop
09:11 < JackMa> ok?
09:11 < stevendale> Yeah :)
09:11 < stevendale> In htop it is F10 to exit IIRC, but might be Q as well
09:11 < JackMa> 1, 2, 3, 4 are cpu?
09:11 < JackMa> stevendale: ?
09:12 < stevendale> Yeah
09:12 < stevendale> They're the CPU cores
09:12 < stevendale> It shows memory as well below them
09:12 < JackMa> 0.0%, 0.0%, 1.4%, 2.8%. then i can run another script?
09:12 < JackMa> ram 114/925MB
09:12 < JackMa> 2.4%, 0.0% 2.8%,, 1.4%  114/925MB
09:13 < stevendale> What scripts are you planning on running? :)
09:13 < JackMa> webscraping only
09:13 < stevendale> You're good to go :)
09:13 < JackMa> thanks :)
09:13 < stevendale> Also
09:13 < stevendale> Um
09:13 < stevendale> There's a package that shows network usage, and another that shows I/O activity
09:13 < JackMa> stevendale: i quit it with ‘q’ instead of f10, it is ok?
09:14 < stevendale> I think it's iotop, forgot network one
09:14 < stevendale> JackMa, Q is fine :)
09:14 < JackMa> thanks :)
09:14 < stevendale> No problem, glad I could help :)
09:19 < lrb> Would there be a way to take a list of files sorted by name and reverse the sorting order of the extensions? So if I have a.aa a.bb b.aa and b.bb, it would result in a.bb, a.aa, b.bb, and b.aa?
09:21 < lrb> I'm sure there's some awk magic that would do what I want but I haven't had time to learn awk yet
09:21 < rangergord> lrb: I think you're better off writing a one-off python script for this
09:23 < vlt> lrb: "sort" has a -k argument.
09:23 < sauvin> vlt: can sort sort on multiple fields?
09:25 < vlt> sauvin: I'd say yes. At least if you run it multiple times.
09:25 < sauvin> I think that might be a trick I'm too stupid to learn. I'd just perl the silly thing.
09:26 < vlt> Or python.
09:31 < deusstultus> Incredibly gross unvetterd 30 second one-liner:  for j in $(for i in *; do echo "${i##.*}.${//.*}";done | sort -h); do echo "${j##.*}.${//.*}";done
09:34 < deusstultus> vlt: sort doesn't support regex for keys (at least per manual), which would make extension parsing sloppy anyway
09:34 < Nixola> is there anything similar to cairo, possibly similarly ubiquitous as well, with gamma correction / linear color space support?
09:35 < notmike> I heard Debian is a scam.
09:36 < michaelrose> I heard notmike is a scam after all he is clearly not the real mike
09:36 < notmike> My whole life has been a scam but that's not on-topic here.
09:37 < michaelrose> how on earth could debian be a scam
09:37 < michaelrose> whose being rooked and for what?
09:37 < well_laid_lawn> don't feed the troll
09:38 < notmike> It allows people to not learn Linux, or to learn it in a way which constrains it's identity into artificial management constructs.
09:38 < stevendale> Brb, going to have fish & chips
09:38 < notmike> Again I'm being attacked for presenting new ideas.
09:38 < michaelrose> you haven't given me one coherent one to attack
09:40 < vlt> notmike: What restriction should be added to Debian so that it will not allow people to not learn Linux?
09:41 < michaelrose> constrains its identity into artificial management constructs doesn't mean anything
09:41 < _KaszpiR_> notmike so you're saying that because people make things simpler which solves most use cases, is in fact even more restricting?
09:41 < _KaszpiR_> noone forces people to use Debian
09:43 < michaelrose> or do you mean that in the same fashion that buying a ford lets one entirely bypass the step where you mine and iron and use it to create steel
09:43 < _KaszpiR_> or that buying electric car limits you using cars with manual shift or pouring fule into the car?
09:43 < NoirX> hello all\
09:44 < jack_rip_vim> what happened?
09:44 < jack_rip_vim> hi NoirX
09:44 < _KaszpiR_> notmike why don't you attack Mac OS X in the firt place?
09:44 < jack_rip_vim> notmike attack?
09:45 < _KaszpiR_> we're bored and we're having a chat with a troll in here ;)
09:45 < jack_rip_vim> _KaszpiR_: OK
09:47 < mawk> how cool is operator overloading
09:47 < mawk> char nlbuf[1_MiB];
09:47 < notmike> Linux administrator should be in the command line. Debian and it's failing progeny Ubuntu strive to confirm to m$ theology on active directory management and group policy bollocks
09:47 < _KaszpiR_> not really
09:48 < jack_rip_vim> notmike: Do you miss DOS age?
09:48 < jack_rip_vim> MS-DOS*
09:48 < notmike> GUIs stifle the Linux admin spirit
09:49 < notmike> Debian is to blame
09:49 < vlt> notmike: What did you try to do on the command line that Debian didn't let you do?
09:50 < vlt> notmike: Maybe you were just doing it wrong.
09:50 < jack_rip_vim> At the end of 1970s, GUI was getting into people's eyesight
09:51 < jack_rip_vim> In 1980s, Openlook DE was popular
09:52 < notmike> Sysadmins today are a bunch of nerdy bros with shitty taste in craft brews. And it's because they don't live in the command line.
09:52 < notmike> What's your favorite editor?
09:52 < mawk> lol
09:53 < jack_rip_vim> notmike: both of emacs and vi/vim
09:53 < notmike> Never heard of it, I use ed.
09:54 < _KaszpiR_> aahhahaa
09:54 < lrb> Aren't butterflies the real way to edit files?
09:54 < neoncortex> haha, for this point on, you can't argue with him, even if you want to, the trolling level are unbearable
09:54 < deusstultus> notmike: ms wordpad, no question
09:54 < _KaszpiR_> ed is from dos
09:54 < _KaszpiR_> ;D
09:55 < _KaszpiR_> aw sorry I ment edlin
09:55 < jack_rip_vim> Actually, in this world, there are some places, they are still running MS-DOS, the oldest one
09:55 < vlt> notmike: ed is available on Debian. What problem did you experience?
09:56 < notmike> lol
09:56 < neoncortex> I actually carry with myself a machine running DOS 3, a hp 95lx calculator
09:56 < _KaszpiR_> and because of Debian I switched to SublimeText
09:56 < _KaszpiR_> well and also because of Windows and OS X
09:56 < neoncortex> .. or a palmtop, for me it's a calculator
09:57 < _KaszpiR_> different platforms, same experience
09:57 < _KaszpiR_> neoncortex you should drop calculator, and switch back to the old plain abacus
09:58 < jack_rip_vim> when you look back more deeply, you will find more interesting things.
09:58 < neoncortex> _KaszpiR_: because it's the really spirit xD
09:58 < _KaszpiR_> we also shoudl move out of our houses back to the woods to hunt for the food, sarch for the fireplace and all that shit
09:58  * sauvin thinking somebody done took a rotten early-morning piss in notmike's bowl of Cheerios
09:59 < notmike> I eat crispix actually, when I eat carbs, which hasn't been since 1996.
10:00 < jack_rip_vim> _KaszpiR_: One day, I will live without internet.
10:00 < sauvin> I'm guessing it'd be futile to explain what's meant by the term "metaphor".
10:00 < _KaszpiR_> jack_rip_vim OH GOD YESSS
10:01 < _KaszpiR_> the internet limited your ability to search for the things on your own, why bother to get that knowledge immediately!
10:01 < notmike> _KaszpiR_: have you read Technological Society and It's Consequences? Really makes ya think.
10:01 < _KaszpiR_> no, but I get the feeling it alos disallows eating burgers and meat? :)
10:02 < notmike> No way
10:02 < jack_rip_vim> :D
10:02 < notmike> Excuse me, Industrial Society and it's Future
10:06 < kraftb> Whats the company background of Logitech?
10:06 < kraftb> Almost since I remember I use Logitech mice and now I wonder what their company mentality is
10:06 < notmike> They make different periphery devices
10:07 < notmike> They're reptilians
10:08 < oiaohm> kraftb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech
10:09 < kraftb> For quite a long time I prefered AMD CPUs over Intel, the same way as I prefer Linux over Microsoft.
10:09 < neoncortex> actually i have seen a brain researcher telling about how people in general use more the 'reptilian brain' than anything else ..
10:09 < blaztek> They’ve been around forever and have supported Linux from the beginning. Like pre 1.0 kernel.
10:09 < _KaszpiR_> reptilians?
10:09 < oiaohm> kraftb: AMD has made some good processors but have also make some really big disasters of chips as well.
10:09 < kraftb> But rather because it is the weaker company, like one takes care of a child. But on the other hand I accept stable systems. Not like being a rogue or rebellian.
10:10 < kraftb> Which makes me a little bit weird ...
10:10 < oiaohm> kraftb: I do remember when a few Australian PC mags run how long it would take a CPU to cook an egg and the AMD won the shortest stime.
10:10 < kraftb> I do not know how to express my issue :)
10:11 < jack_rip_vim> once upon a time, sparc was popular
10:11 < notmike> Reptile brain is way faster than Linux kernel. Like way faster.
10:11 < mAniAk-_-> oiaohm: and at a different time it would have been intel
10:11 < kraftb> Maybe my problem is, that by supporting AMD vs. Intel and Linux vs. Microsoft to "weaken" the stronger I make those which are even weaker stronger.
10:12 < kraftb> Its like I would like to balance
10:12 < oiaohm> mAniAk-_-:  No it was over 100C intel never been that bad.
10:12 < kraftb> and by trying to balance bring problems into my IT world
10:12 < BCMM> cpu temperature?
10:13 < oiaohm> BCMM: yes AMD did have have some CPU that at full load get over 100C was in fact normal.
10:13 < BCMM> getting a p4 over 100C was waaay too easy back in the day
10:13 < BCMM> it wouldn't survive that for any length of time, but it wouldn't throttle to protect itself or anything
10:13 < neoncortex> things like competition, reproduction, fight or flight, all came out of reptilian brain the guy told, they talked also how the today's social environinment push people to that zone ..
10:14 < kraftb> Ok ... lets try it this way: If you are from America ... I am from Europe. Altough there is no real aggression there is some kind of financial / commercial warfare. Or lets call it competition
10:14 < oiaohm> BCMM: I am talking cpu over 100 C and holding that for 5+ mins to cook an egg.
10:14 < mAniAk-_-> oiaohm: early p4 were bad
10:15 < kraftb> Ah ... don't know how to turn it to say what I mean :)
10:15 < oiaohm> mAniAk-_-: but it was they would not survive to cook an egg.
10:15 < mAniAk-_-> amd thunderbird was also pretty bad
10:15 < BCMM> oiaohm: and i'm talking about a p4 which ran that hot regularly for probably months, while the user just sort of put up with the random instability
10:15 < oiaohm> mAniAk-_-: its thunderbird AMD that were the good egg cooker.
10:16 < kraftb> I will trash my Logitech mouse now and try the Genius one ...
10:16 < deusstultus> would you use anything beside a bird to warm an egg though?
10:17 < JackMa> vpn == proxy?
10:17 < oiaohm> deusstultus: you are getting why the result was also so funny.
10:17 < mAniAk-_-> oiaohm: i had one of them, also a p4, though a p4c which were not as bad as early p4
10:17 < oiaohm> We have come along way from when you could use your CPU to cook your breakfast.
10:18 < Triffid_Hunter> mine hits 80°C under load, only need 66° to cook an egg
10:18 < BCMM> mAniAk-_-: *early* p4? optimum self-immolation wasn't achieved until like 2004-05
10:18 < BCMM> mAniAk-_-: HT, 64-bit, but worst of all, 3.8GHz
10:19 < BCMM> up to 115W TDP
10:19 < BCMM> might be a record for single-core energy wastage
10:20 < repys> does traceroute use udp or icmp in linux?
10:20 < repys> can I use tcp?
10:20 < deusstultus> yup.  could probably still cut out a recess to hold an egg in a lot of higher performance towers
10:20 < kraftb> plug, plug, throw ... new nice Genius mouse
10:20 < kraftb> Now as I look I indeed like their logo more.
10:20 < deusstultus> hell, I know I've used pizzaboxes to warm pizza before
10:22 < blaztek> kraftb: I thought it was the reptiles that were smart, not the mouse...
10:23 < PlasmaHH> Hi, how can I check the internal timestamp of an e1000 network card clock? I was doing it a year ago while trying to setup ptp and noticed a bug there and would like to check if its gone but for the life of me  can't remember how I did it back then
10:28 < mawk> repys: it uses anything you want
10:30 < mawk> but for ICMP you need to be root, to open a raw socket
10:30 < mawk> because it incidentally captures everyone's traffic
10:31 < PlasmaHH> or have CAP_NET_RAW
10:32 < mawk> indeed
10:34 < kraftb> I guess either reptiles or mouses will eat whatever they find and decide to beeatble
10:34 < kraftb> beeatable
10:34 < kraftb> *argl* be eatable
10:34 < PlasmaHH> (to answer my own question I used the phc_ctl tool)
10:36 < Triffid_Hunter> repys: traceroute uses icmp, tracepath uses udp
10:37 < wizzi> Hello, Any useful tutorial about kali linux "i need basics of security"
10:40 < sauvin> You're doing it wrong. Find some book that covers the kind of security you're looking to deal with, and then use Kali to expand on what you're learning.
10:40 < sauvin> Learning "Kali" won't teach you "security".
10:41 < BCMM> repys: man traceroute, section LIST OF AVAILABLE METHODS
10:41 < BCMM> at least in my implementation, you have some choices
10:41 < ice9> how to use 'du' and only list dirs with G?
10:43 < MrElendig> ice9: use ncdu instead if this is for interactive use
10:44 < MrElendig> ice9: other than that: man du, see what -t does
10:48 < stevendale> Hey :)
10:48 < blaztek> Hey stevendale
10:48 < stevendale> Had a piece of battered cod and some chips with plain salt
10:50 < wizzi> i didn't understand ... is kali wrong choice ?
10:51 < stevendale> wizzi, What do you plan on doing with your computer?
10:51 < wizzi> learning security
10:52 < stevendale> What do you mean by security, wizzi?
10:53 < wizzi> network security ...etc
10:53 < wizzi> i want to learn system administration too
10:54 < wizzi> from where can i start ?
10:54 < stevendale> You should use Debian, wizzi
10:55 < stevendale> Kali is hard to use
10:56 < Sveta> wizzi: kali linux is ok only for pentesting. it is not ok for everything else.
10:56 < KekSi> not just pentesting (there's different kali variants for all sorts of things)
10:56 < Sveta> ooh ok
10:57 < Sveta> not for daily use as a desktop right? I'm not sure what's a clear and correct way to put it
10:57 < jubalh> quick question:
10:57 < jubalh> mount -o loop,offset=32256 ./freedos.img /mnt/
10:57 < jubalh> FUSE exfat 1.2.7
10:57 < jubalh> ERROR: exFAT file system is not found.
10:58 < jubalh> does that mean that the image is not correct or that it cannot find exfat program? sounds like the first
10:58 < wizzi> yeah i want to learn just somthings from it to enter CentOS ...your opinion
10:58 < wizzi> ?
10:59 < wizzi> and my direction is system administration and security "general security "
10:59 < sauvin> jubalh, if that ".img" means what I think it means, there's no FAT of any kind on it. It's an ISO.
11:00 < jubalh> sauvin: its an qcow2 image, formatted as fat32 containig freedos installed
11:00 < KekSi> Sveta: well it's the hacker linux but it has different meta packages for different things to do -> https://www.kali.org/news/kali-linux-metapackages/
11:00 < sauvin> jubalh, qcow2 under some kind of VM?
11:00 < KekSi> specific packages for password cracking, wardriving, forensics, gpu usage and whatnot
11:00 < jubalh> sauvin: qemu
11:06 < wizzi> Any answer?
11:07 < Nixola> is there anything similar to cairo, possibly similarly ubiquitous as well, with gamma correction / linear color space support?
11:07 < notmike> On Debian? Good luck
11:08 < Nixola> ubiquitous
11:08 < Nixola> Cairo is pretty much everywhere iirc
11:14 < wizzi> Help: i need just command of kali ..
11:14 < Armand> sudo shutdown -h now
11:14 < Armand> There ya go
11:14 < wizzi> book or vdos
11:22 < furrymcgee> watch more /proc/memin
11:28 < kalinite> lol
11:29 < wizzi> Sveta : any books or sites to learn general cammand of linux ?
11:29 < repys> can rsync server backup data on NFS or SMB shared directory?
11:30 < repys> which one is better?
11:31 < stevendale> I got Debian LXDE on this Inspiron 6000, Debian XFCE on my Latitude E5400 & Debian KDE on my Latitude E6330
11:32 < wizzi> stevendale : any books or sites to learn general cammand of linux ?
11:32 < repys> any idea?
11:33 < repys> :)
11:38 < onodera> hi, does anone know what the new CC_STACKPROTECTOR_AUTO does?
11:39 < onodera> how does it differ from _STRONG or the other
11:48 < tdd1984> Man I can't remember, but how do I download all files from a directory and inner folders. I know it's wget -r but how do I set where it to downloads too on my computer?
11:48 < tdd1984> I'm logged in SSH
11:48 < lopid> scp -r ?
11:49 < maboc> @wizzi Linux-for Dummies or so. Can be purchase at Amazon for example.
11:54 < TheWild> hello
11:55 < TheWild> I cant remember now. What was the program called that was used for testing RAM, that runs within OS?
11:55 < truthr> hello
11:55 < truthr> memtestsomething
11:55 < Sitri> tdd1984: man wget (-r does have a limit)
11:56 < TheWild> dammit, Package 'memtester' has no installation candidate
11:57 < Sitri> TheWild: memtest86+
11:57 < TheWild> this one runs before OS is loaded (thus ignores mem=2048M argument)
11:57 < TheWild> or I don't know how to run it within OS
11:58 < Sitri> The one I just listed is the one that is loaded by the bootloader
11:59 < tdd1984> ok
11:59 < tdd1984> sitri: what should I use
11:59 < tdd1984> downloading to a windwos machine, trying to download to my D:/ drive
11:59 < tdd1984> lot of files
11:59 < Sitri> Why are you doing it over HTTP(S)?
12:00 < jack_rip_vim> create a torrent is much easier
12:01 < TheWild> ok, dding the partition anyway
12:01 < TheWild> I'll check later whether memtest86+ works with mem argument
12:02 < mAniAk-_-> tdd1984: many tools available, i usually use filezilla with ssh
12:02 < tdd1984> Filezilla is so slow though..
12:02 < tdd1984> sitri: why whats the fastest way to do it?
12:03 < jack_rip_vim> torrent
12:03 < tdd1984> I guess I could compress the files, then download them
12:03 < tdd1984> torrent
12:03 < Sitri> rsync
12:03 < jack_rip_vim> over through the network
12:05 < jack_rip_vim> i always wonder, why people didn't want to use P2P with HTTP
12:05 < jack_rip_vim> ?
12:08 < pankaj> What is the best way to deal with backups in linux (I want to do it on terminal only)?
12:10 < Sitri> That's a very open question...
12:10 < pankaj> Sitri: Me?
12:10 < binga> What is the status of ReadyMedia/MiniDLNA project? The Sf page seems active, but there hasn't been a release since last August
12:10 < Sitri> pankaj: Yes
12:11 < pankaj> Sitri: Is dd OK or what do you think?
12:12 < Sitri> pankaj: Personally, I have a few large drives in various machines, and two sets of backups.  Each set has a master, which gets the data sent to it, and then all other members of the set download from the master.  All done via rsync over ssh through crontabs.
12:12 < pankaj> Sitri: Seems so complex.
12:12 < Sitri> It's not meant to be a permenant solution, but it's a good half-step towards something proper.
12:13 < Sitri> Not really.  1) I already had many hosts 2) I just bought a few large drives 3) I have built-in redundancy (via the sets)
12:14 < pankaj> Sitri: So, what according to you is best for average users?
12:15 < Sitri> There is no average user
12:15 < pankaj> Sitri: OK.
12:15 < Sitri> Though the most reasonable solution people generally use is a centralized NAS
12:16 < Sitri> Have RAID setup on the NAS and you're good to go
12:16 < pankaj> Sitri: I have a SSD of 1.5 Terabyte. Unfortunately it is one partition and it was long time and I should have created more partitions. Can I resize the partition safely so that I can create more then 1 partition (THe data is less in the main partition).
12:17 < Sitri> But if all your data fits on a single external drive, buy two.  Each week copy everything onto one, then next week the other.  Keep one local the other off-site.
12:17 < pankaj> Sitri: So, that I can place my backup in that partition. Last time I did and I got error.
12:17 < pankaj> Sitri: But first I want to get solution if I can resize the partition in use or not.
12:18 < Sitri> Uhhh don't backup to the same drive
12:18 < Sitri> Disk failures are one of the reasons you want to be doing backups for.
12:18 < Sitri> Site destruction is another
12:18 < rypervenche> pankaj: I like a good ol' rsync backup. It keeps all of your files in tact and each backup doesn't take long since it only syncs over the changed data.
12:18 < pankaj> Sitri: I am going to build linux from scratch. I do not want to use virtualbox theirfore I wanted to prepare backup in case if something goes wrong.
12:19 < SuperSeriousCat> It will be in a chroot and its mostly copy-paste from the book. Nothing can go wrong really
12:19 < Sitri> Do you only have one hard-drive?
12:20 < Sitri> I'd at least do it on an external hard-drive
12:20 < Sitri> (FYI: I'
12:20 < pankaj> SuperSeriousCat: Thanks
12:20 < Sitri> (FYI: I've done LFS a few timeS)
12:20 < deusstultus> pankaj: resize2fs
12:20 < pankaj> Sitri: I have an external hard drive or you can say SSD in which I want to keep my backup. Unfortunately it has one large partition.
12:21 < pankaj> deusstultus: Will it resize safely?
12:21 < Sitri> I meant do LFS on the external hard-drive
12:21 < rypervenche> You'd probably want to take a backup of it before resizing ><
12:21 < pankaj> deusstultus: OK. I got the man page. It is very interesting and what I was looking for.
12:22 < pankaj> rypervenche: OK.
12:22 < deusstultus> pankaj: quite safe, but aye, read up
12:22 < SuperSeriousCat> If its only a few GB you can backup to some cloud services for free
12:22 < rypervenche> pankaj: With resize2fs, there is definitely room for mistake. If you don't do things in the right order and overcompensate for boundaries, you could lose data.
12:23 < pankaj> rypervenche: Is it the best of its category or their is another one in linux for easy resizing?
12:24 < rypervenche> For those who have used resize2fs before and many times, I would say there is little to no danger, but for one who has never done it, you would need to be 100% that you're running the correct commands.
12:24 < rypervenche> pankaj: For an ext file system, resize2fs is your command. But why don't we get back to the real issue. You just need a place to install LFS, correct?
12:24 < pankaj> SuperSeriousCat: Or what do you think about tar.
12:25 < SuperSeriousCat> Just curious. Is this just to try LFS and then forget it, dualbooting or building for another machine?
12:25 < pankaj> rypervenche: OK. I think I got the answer to the main question  while discussing.
12:26 < pankaj> SuperSeriousCat: I am going to try LFS but for some secure reasons I also want to backup my system first.
12:27 < rypervenche> pankaj: If you don't have a backup set up currently and you have the space, I would recommend getting that set up ASAP.
12:27 < rypervenche> pankaj: What file system is on your extra SSD?
12:27 < delboy1978uk> i'm in an office with the worst network policies ever, can hardly access a thing. i'm trying to set my debugger up and did my usual stuff in puTTY; create a tunnel on port 9001. netstat on the laptop and on the remote both show port 9001 is listening, but somehow i am not getting my debugger to trigger. any ideas what i can try to find out what's wrong?
12:27 < delboy1978uk> firewall shouldn't care, right? i only need my outgoing ssh port?
12:28 < SuperSeriousCat> So temporary dualboot? Doing this in a VM is so much easier to clean up and it dont sturb your partitions now
12:28 < noodlepie> I changed my Booter from BIOS to UEFI yesterday. I was much easier than I thought because the disk was already GOT and had its label set to "gpt" which meant all I needed to do was change the type of the BIOS BOOT partition to "EFI System" format it as VFAT, mark /dev/sda2 (my Linux /boot mount partition) a bootable, mount /dev/sda1 (the 2MB old BIOS Boot partition) as /boot/efi and rerun grub-install with --target=x86_64_efi and
12:28 < noodlepie> --removable). Changed the BIOS setting to use EFI and it started up correctly. Wonderful.
12:29 < rypervenche> noodlepie: Grats!
12:29 < SuperSeriousCat> + you dont have to play with your current bootloader
12:29 < rypervenche> noodlepie: Yeah, a lot of people make it out to be harder than it really is.
12:33 < rypervenche> pankaj: If your other SSD is ext3/4 and you have enough space to hold your entire system, then you don't need a separate partition to back up to it. I would recommend in that case to set up an rsync (possibly cronjobbed) to back up your system. Help can be provided for the options to use with rsync.
12:34 < delboy1978uk> i dont need to unblock any ports that are ssh tunnelled, right? i just need my outging ssh port?
12:35 < noodlepie> I hope I always have this fascination with Free Software. It looks more and more likely every day that it will only get more interesting in the future. What with Blockchain/HyperLedger, AI and Machine Learning, 3D graphics, Sounds (I like MIDI - I have a General MIDI 2.0 synth with virtual analog 3 channel sound modeling effects and sliders and knows (reverb, resonance, attack-decay-sustain-release envelopes, different waveform
12:35 < noodlepie> oscillations and filters) - (It's a Roland GAIA SH-01 100% Linux support. Its great - like a RB-303 on acid itself).
12:35 < wizzi> how to update grub 0.97 to grub 2
12:35 < phre4k> I am using a python script as login shell and want to write to a file but I get permission denied, the user in question has +w permissions though, why is that?
12:36 < delboy1978uk> phre4k: run whoami in the script and see what user it actually runs as
12:37 < noodlepie> rypervenche, it was a sinch because I already had GPT enabled and a 2MB Boot partition. The #gentoo ops helped me out a bit with it. They're great!
12:37 < delboy1978uk> DevAntoine: o/
12:37 < AnrDaemon> Any way to clear any possible user input happened before my script is called? I want to read from the user, but I want to avoid any keystrokes happened before calling `read`.
12:37 < fujisan> noodlepie:  do they also play ping pong with you?
12:38 < fujisan> noodlepie:  maybe we should invite them to a barbecue
12:38 < fujisan> maybe we should all meet in reallife
12:38 < fujisan> and have a giant barbecue
12:39 < fujisan> and then we have irc chat projected on a giant screen and we can just sit there and chat with eachother
12:39 < noodlepie> I love Gentoo. Debian for older machines though as binary packages install faster then building everything in source with Gentoo. Gentoo means your system is 100% optimized for your machine specifically and you can pool builds and install binaries on clients too.
12:39 < noodlepie> It's great!
12:39 < rypervenche> noodlepie: I know, I watched as you did it. (Gentoo user here).
12:40 < fujisan> how do i become a gentoo user?
12:40 < SuperSeriousCat> By copy-pasting from their install guide
12:40 < fujisan> my proficiency is at ubuntu/macos level
12:42 < SuperSeriousCat> Start off by installing Arch in a VM. When you feel comfertable getting that up and running, you can do Gentoo. It is basically the same thing, but with more customization options and your machine got to build the packages itself
12:50 < phre4k> delboy1978uk: did it with ForceCommand now.
12:50 < phre4k> I want a user to be able to login via SSH without a password but I don't want my local users to be able to su into that user.
12:51 < phre4k> I removed the password, but how do I disable su'ing into the user?
12:52 < delboy1978uk> phreak: take away sudo rights?
12:52 < phre4k> delboy1978uk: sudo != su
12:52 < delboy1978uk> force log in with private key
12:53 < delboy1978uk> you ARE using a private key right? you don't have a user with no password that anyone can just log in with?
12:53 < phre4k> delboy1978uk: I want the latter.
12:54 < phre4k> I do not want pubkey authentication.
12:55 < phre4k> I have Match User test, PasswordAuthentication yes, PermitEmptyPasswords yes, ForceCommand ~/userapplication.py in the sshd_config
12:55 < phre4k> because if I set the userapplication.py as login shell I can't write to files.
12:56 < delboy1978uk> phre4k: if you have a private key set, you just open putty and double click your connection. no login prompt and you are secured
12:57 < delboy1978uk> i cant help you make your system insecure sorry
12:58 < phre4k> delboy1978uk: I don't use Putty and I do not want to use a pubkey, I want everyone on the internet to be able to log in via ssh and execute the script I wrote
12:58 < phre4k> jesus christ
12:58 < delboy1978uk> wow
12:58  * phre4k *facepalms*
12:58 < delboy1978uk> you want the entire internet to have ssh access to your server with no password?
12:58 < phre4k> what do I have to write so you believe I know what I'm doing
12:59 < phre4k> delboy1978uk: do you even know what ForceCommand is? Or what changing the login shell does?
12:59 < delboy1978uk> i thought you were asking questions?
12:59 < delboy1978uk> that implies you don't
12:59 < phre4k> lol
12:59 < phre4k> I bet you can't even explain how running a python script on login through SSH would be unsafe
13:00 < phre4k> with user rights even
13:00 < delboy1978uk> bet away
13:00 < kazdax> is there a way to log into ssh without a passphrase
13:00 < phre4k> I *could* set the password to something arbitrarily long and paste the pubkey on the site, but that's an inconvenient workaround
13:01 < kazdax> you ceate keys public and private and share them
13:01 < phre4k> kazdax: share them? Why?
13:01 < kazdax> well according o tthe tutorial
13:01 < kazdax> i was reading on rhcsa
13:01 < kazdax> the guy just shared his public and privta key
13:02 < delboy1978uk> sharing private keys..
13:02 < kazdax> so that if he needed to log into a server...he could just show the key and that would be nough to log into the ssh
13:02 < phre4k> kazdax: you shouldn't share your private key.
13:02 < kazdax> i must have beem istakne then
13:02 < phre4k> phogg: any idea on how to do what I want? :D
13:02 < kazdax> mistaken*
13:02 < phre4k> kazdax: what exactly is your question?
13:02 < kazdax> its almost 8 am and i am going to go buy me some fruit punch 211
13:03 < kazdax> it washt a question its just something i saw on a tutorial
13:03 < phre4k> kazdax: mind linking the tutorial?
13:03 < kazdax> its a video course file i have on my system
13:03 < kazdax> basiclly he dint want t ouse password so he used keys instead
13:04 < kazdax> which allowed him to log into the ssh without any authetication
13:04 < kazdax> since the keys were shared
13:04 < kazdax> i could be mistaken ..need to take a look back at that tturial
13:04 < delboy1978uk> kazdax: mega.co.nz give you 50GB of encrypted cloud space, if sharing your video is something you'd do
13:04 < kazdax> its by pearson sander vau something
13:05 < delboy1978uk> just dont forget your pass because they cant reset it, its that private!
13:05 < phre4k> kazdax: yes, that's how people usually do it
13:05 < BluesKaj> Howdy all
13:05 < phre4k> BluesKaj: howdy!
13:05 < BluesKaj> hey phre4k
13:06 < phre4k> BluesKaj: maybe you can help me.
13:06 < phre4k> I want everyone to be able to login into my machine and only execute a given python script. When I set said script as login shell, I couldn't write to a file with u+w permissions, so I set it to ForceCommand. The thing is, when I remove the password the users on the system can easily su to the user and read all the contents of the homedir or file → how do I do this?
13:06 < phre4k> or rather, how do I prevent local users to su into the "public" user which doesn't have an SSH password
13:07 < phre4k> or even: how do I remove the requirement to enter any password via ssh (like telnet) and still have people enter the password when su'ing to said user
13:07 < BluesKaj> phre4k, I have no idea, merely a home user with no experience with such a setup
13:08 < SuperSeriousCat> Do many people use your computer?
13:08 < phre4k> SuperSeriousCat: yes.
13:09 < SuperSeriousCat> Then trust them or dont be lazy and start using passwords
13:09 < alexey-nemovff> hi folks..
13:12 < phre4k> SuperSeriousCat: ???
13:12 < phre4k> I don't get your point
13:12 < phre4k> why would not having a password be lazy
13:13 < SuperSeriousCat> You put passwords on things you want secured. Not bothering with securing it IS lazy
13:14 < alexey-nemovff> phre4k: because you don't want to enter passwords everytime is needed?
13:14 < phre4k> okay, I'll explain again:
13:14 < alexey-nemovff> SuperSeriousCat: I agree
13:15 < TheWild> okay, I ran ddrescue. It recovered 99.97% of the 50 GB partition and now is stuck at damaged parts. Time since last successful read is 15 minutes now.
13:15 < phre4k> I have a __single__ user which should be able to connect via SSH without any password or pubkey. Then over SSH (an in-transit encrypted connection) there's a python script which awaits input from the user and saves the result to a text file. Said text file should not be possible to read by other users already on the system.
13:15 < TheWild> Would ^C now be a rather dumb decision?
13:17 < phre4k> I could just use the python script as login shell, that way the users on the system who want to "su username" get prompted by the same script, but the problem is that when I do that I get the error "PermissionError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 'applications.csv'" from my python script.
13:17 < phre4k> TheWild: should be fine
13:17 < phre4k> TheWild: it's not like ddrescue goes out of its way and deletes all you recovered ;)
13:19 < SuperSeriousCat> In /etc/ssh/sshd_config you use Match User <user> and then allow that user to connect. Have the rest in your users home with minimum permissions
13:19 < z3r0sTr3sS> hey guys i have one problem about language
13:19 < z3r0sTr3sS> someone can help me?
13:19 < phre4k> SuperSeriousCat: how does that solve the problem that anyone can su to the user?
13:20 < phre4k> z3r0sTr3sS: this is not a "language" channel, so no, we can't help you. This is a "Linux" channel.
13:20 < z3r0sTr3sS> witch channel i need to go?
13:21 < Sveta> z3r0sTr3sS: what language?
13:21 < z3r0sTr3sS> i wont delete english lan guage but i change locale files i change in language settings but when i reboot nothing is change
13:22 < SuperSeriousCat> Im sure you can tweak. Remove said users from "wheel" group or however your distro do it. It prevent them from doing any su, phre4k
13:23 < phre4k> ah, nice, found my error. I have to provide an absolute path to the python script.
13:23 < TheWild> how the hell this HDD developed errors randomly. About month ago I checked it and every sector was fine.
13:23 < z3r0sTr3sS> i dont' wont reinstall the s.o
13:23 < phre4k> feel free to play: ssh tilde@tilde.fun
13:23 < TheWild> and this HDD was almost not used
13:26 < z3r0sTr3sS>   /j #linux-op
13:26 < phre4k> TheWild: don't ever trust a disk, use the 3-2-1 backup rule
13:28 < TheWild> the netbook randomly displays "usb usb4-port1: unable to enumerate USB device"
13:28 < TheWild> or usb2-port1
13:28 < TheWild> no USB device is connected
13:29 < timdiels> Where /part
13:30 < V7> Hey all
13:31 < V7> is it possible to get which tmux, screen or xterm is used to set compatible color ?
13:32 < streiu> How do i put tux on top of the console (tty) in a different frame so that tux is always showing even after a lot of issued commands?
13:32 < V7> For example, if tmux; then export TERM=tmux-256color; fi
13:34 < TheWild> now even fsck can't fix a thing
13:34 < TheWild> the system doesn't start
13:34 < V7> TheWild: fsck is not for such a things
13:35  * noodlepie has EFI Framebuffer and Nvidia, with VESA2.0 display drivers. It's working perfectly.
13:35 < rypervenche> V7: in your ~/.tmux.conf: set -g default-terminal "screen-256color"
13:35 < TheWild> but OS won't run until I run fsck
13:35 < TheWild> but fsck hits bad sectors
13:36 < V7> rypervenche: The question was another
13:36 < V7> This will set it for me
13:36 < V7> Or for anyone who uses tmux
13:37 < V7> How to determine which color is capable ?
13:37 < V7> For example, if tmux is not installed then tput will show "uknown terminal: tmux-256color"
13:37 < V7> unknown *
13:38 < SuperSeriousCat> V7, maybe "colortest" is available in your distro. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/308094/print-a-256-color-test-pattern-in-the-terminal
13:38 < V7> SuperSeriousCat: How colorset will answer a questoin ?
13:39 < V7> This will only print colors
13:39 < SuperSeriousCat> Ye. If you cant print them, then you dont have the support. <V7> How to determine which color is capable ?
13:40 < alexey-nemovff> phre4k: can you explain that 3-2-1 backup rule? please.
13:40 < V7> SuperSeriousCat: Thank you, but this is not an answer
13:40 < V7> This will only print or not, but won't tell which tmux, screen or xterm should be set for color
13:41 < streiu> How do i put tux on top of the console (tty) in a different frame so that tux is always showing even after a lot of issued commands?
13:41 < SuperSeriousCat> It is. Its not like you install support for shades of green only. Run it in xterm, tmux and screen one by one and you get your answer
13:41 < kazdax> nothing like a morning beer
13:42 < pankaj> I am using 'resize2fs' but I cannot see any changes when I run 'fsck' on my device. It is just the same after resizing the partition.
13:43 < V7> SuperSeriousCat:
13:43 < V7> Oh dear
13:44 < V7> Try to run tput with xterm-256color in tmux and you'll see
13:44 < phre4k> alexey-nemovff: http://wiki.crunchweb.eu/guide/backup
13:44 < phre4k> alexey-nemovff: sorry, https://wiki.crunchweb.eu/admin/backup/start
13:45 < alexey-nemovff> ok
13:45 < alexey-nemovff> thank you
13:45 < V7> phre4k: This topic does not exist yet
13:46 < V7> oh
13:46 < V7> Sorry, haven't noticed that you've checked this one
13:47 < rypervenche> V7: So you just need for all tmux sessions to use 256 colors or...
13:47 < rypervenche> V7: If so, for tmux you can do: [[ $TMUX = "" ]] && export TERM="xterm-256color"
13:47 < V7> Need to check which terminal in us, I suppose, to set TERM properly
13:47 < rypervenche> Some combination of something like that.
13:51 < rypervenche> You simply need to create some logic for things that are unique to each case and then you could do an if then statement or && and ||s or something. Or simply do it correctly in each one's config file, don't see why you said that wasn't what you wanted.
13:53 < V7> ofc
13:53 < V7> And how you would check if tmux or xterm is in session right now ?
13:54 < alexey-nemovff> how do you guys shutdown your Linux box.. I mean, I always use commands to do it.. I used to use the *poweroff* command, then some suggested me to better use *shutdown -h now*
13:54 < alexey-nemovff> what do you guys think?
13:54 < rypervenche> V7: When you type "tmux" it will give you what you set in its .tmux.conf file. Are you talking about already-created tmux sessions?
13:54 < Sveta> alexey-nemovff: push the power button briefly
13:54 < alexey-nemovff> lol
13:55 < dgurney> I think that it doesn't matter in the slightest, so long as you're aware of the most common commands to shut down
13:55 < NightTrain> # shutdown -P now   but probably does the same thing as the poweroff command.
13:55 < rypervenche> alexey-nemovff: I use "shutdown -h now" personally. "halt" also works.
13:56 < rypervenche> A global /etc/tmux.conf also works.
13:56 < V7> rypervenche: Not only tmux
13:56 < rypervenche> V7: Right, so do the same for screen with its screenrc file.
13:57 < revel> V7: ps?
13:57 < revel> pgrep?
13:58 < V7> oh. doesn't matter. The question is misunderstood.
13:59 < rypervenche> Seems that way :/ Well, if you care to rephrase or others can fill me in, we'd still be happy to help.
13:59 < V7> Thank you for your time, really.
14:05 < streiu> How do I make so that the console (ctrl+alt+f1) has two frames: one for an image and the other for the commands themselves?
14:06 < rascul> streiu the amount of work required is probably more than it's worth
14:06 < rascul> graphics and frames on the console in the way you describe aren't exactly an easily solved problem
14:07 < rascul> what is the purpose?
14:09 < jubalh> what is a way to see all man pages in `man 3`?
14:09 < jubalh> want to see all man pages for library calls
14:10 < streiu> rascul aesthetics, it would be amazing to have tux always sitting on the top of my console
14:11 < rascul> streiu i would then recommend purchasing a little tux doll and setting it on top of your monitor
14:12 < revel> jubalh: Believe it or not, `man man` will help you there :D
14:12 < revel> jubalh: `man -ks 3 '.*'`
14:13 < revel> Or `apropos -s 3 '.*'
14:13 < revel> `
14:15 < jubalh> revel: actually i looked at man man, but didnt get this
14:16 < revel> -k for search, -s for section, '.*' for the regex match.
14:16 < jubalh> i see :)
14:16 < jubalh> thanks
14:16 < revel> No prob.
14:22 < MS201010> Hi
14:23 < MS201010> What’s up?
14:26 < jubalh> if i write a program using glib and statically compile it on a 64bit CentOS, should it run on a 64bit Ubuntu?
14:26 < jubalh> i guess it should? since i dont use any libs with might be in different paths, right?
14:34 < zamba> when looking at the output of hexdump, how can i figure out how many bytes out in the file i am siutated?
14:37 < repys> what s the best value of swappiness?
14:38 < SuperSeriousCat> Its not a 1 value fit all kind of deal
14:39 < dgurney> you probably shouldn't worry about it
14:39 < jken> depends if you want your system pulling pages from disk or having process fall victim to the oom killer when you are out of memory
14:41 < repys> how can I run swappiness at runtime?
14:42 < robak> hi everyone
14:43 < rascul> repys what does "run swappiness" mean?
14:43 < robak> I am seeing a lot of '@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@' (even longer than that) in logs of my servers recently, and I can't google anything about it for some reason, would you guys have any clues on what's going on?
14:43 < rypervenche> repys: If you mean "change the swapiness value", you can add it to your /etc/sysctl.conf file.
14:43 < repys> but correct me if I am wrong. if I set swappiness to 10, that means that linux will use swap only when ram available will be less than 10%
14:43 < repys> right?
14:44 < Psi-Jack> robak: Which log(s)?
14:45 < robak> Psi-Jack: syslog
14:45 < Psi-Jack> So... /var/log/syslog?
14:45 < rypervenche> repys: As I am aware, the values are not percentages.
14:46 < robak> Psi-Jack: that's correct
14:46 < Psi-Jack> Can you pastebin (not pastebin.com, see /topic for alternative) a snippet of log surrounding that to give a better clearer picture?
14:48 < robak> Psi-Jack: not at this moment, I'm afraid, they've rotated out, and I just changed syslog settings to keep them for longer so that I could read through it
14:49 < Psi-Jack> I see.. Well, that is unfortunate, for now, then.
14:51 < robak> Psi-Jack: let me see if I can hunt it down on any of the servers, this is happening to lot of them recently
14:51 < rypervenche> repys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swappiness
14:55 < pankaj> I have encountered this problem a lot of time. I have to long press the key again and again to make it type but sometimes I do not have to press hard. It is like keyboard is listening to me sometimes and sometimes it pauses. Is this a system problem or just go for a new keyboard?
14:57 < rypervenche> pankaj: The easiest way to test it would be with a different keyboard.
14:59 < Silenced> Has anyone tried running minikube ?
15:00 < solsTiCe> hi. I have that weird issue that my mouse cursor freeze randomly for about 5 seconds. I just upgraded from ubuntu 17.10 to 18.04. It happens in Gnome Shell/wayland or gnome shell/xorg too. This is not a hardware issue. This work sin the live usb. I even tried a fresh install. It is fine there. How can pinpoint the cause of that ? With what tools ?
15:03 < robak> Psi-Jack: got one!
15:04 < GodOfSea> Hi
15:04 < Psi-Jack> robak: I need that, and enough of the surrounding logs to provide some overall, as possible.
15:05 < GodOfSea> So I added a user to group www-data by using : usermod -g www-data steve
15:05 < GodOfSea> id steve shows its in group www-data
15:05 < GodOfSea> but when I do cat /etc/group its not listed in www-data
15:06 < GodOfSea> along with other users
15:06 < robak> Psi-Jack: https://paste.linux.community/view/4727484e
15:07 < robak> Psi-Jack: hope that's enough. The syslog is very verbose unfortunately, so it doesn't contain a lot in terms of time before this happened
15:07 < Psi-Jack> robak: Ahhh, so it's coming to a webserver. Is your kubernetes web admin interface publically exposed to the internet?
15:08 < robak> Psi-Jack: at 01:13 the machine hung, and was rebooted on 04:12
15:08 < robak> Psi-Jack: no it's not, completely walled in internal network
15:09 < robak> Psi-Jack: but if anything, this would rather be a kube-apiserver (the last request above the error)
15:09 < robak> Psi-Jack: I don't think that's related though, because I also see this problem on etcd machines, where there's no kube-apiserver running
15:09 < robak> and googling for linux @^@^@^ gets me exactly nowhere
15:10 < jack_rip_vim> @^@^@^?
15:10 < robak> jack_rip_vim: https://paste.linux.community/view/4727484e
15:10 < Psi-Jack> jack_rip_vim: Yep. That's what's in the logs
15:10 < robak> jack_rip_vim: it's a frequent 'error' I am seeing on lots of my servers recently
15:10 < abahaba> if i wanted to ask questions about shellcode/binex stuff, should i ask here or is there a security channel?
15:11 < jack_rip_vim> like some binary code
15:11 < Psi-Jack> robak: What's 10.31.239.201?
15:12 < abahaba> jack_rip_vim: was that to me?
15:12 < jack_rip_vim> abahaba: to robak
15:12 < robak> Psi-Jack: that's the localhost - the machine itself
15:12 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm. I see.
15:12 < robak> Psi-Jack: most likely a request from kube-scheduler
15:13 < jack_rip_vim> abahaba: you can ask your questions here
15:14 < Psi-Jack> robak: And was there a reason for the reboot, or was that unscheduled?
15:15 < robak> Psi-Jack: the reason was exactly that problem - when it happens, the machine is dead, no network access, no virtual console access, nothing. So as a last resort, night support does a reboot to recover the k8s master
15:16 < Psi-Jack> robak: I'd be willing to bet you've got one of two problems: An intrusion somewhere, or some failing hardware. Depends on the spread of this.
15:16 < krobzaur> Hello all, I have a somewhat complicated profiling scenario I need help with. I'm running linux, and hopefully somewhat can direct me towards the right tools for the job.
15:17 < notmike> I don't think you have an intrusion. Do you use passwords?
15:17 < krobzaur> I have a python script, which calls functions provided by a dynamic C libary (.so file). This .so is linked with a static library (.a file). I want to run the python script, and get CPU profiling information for functions provided by the static library. What do I need to do to accomplish this?
15:17 < Psi-Jack> robak: What version of Kubernetes?
15:18 < streiu> Psi-Jack where you see a reboot on that log?
15:18 < notmike> krobzaur: nah fam
15:18 < robak> Psi-Jack: not to get overconfident, but the environment is in dem zone, quite separated from anything, so I'd say security isn't the main concern now (but I am not taking it off the board completely)
15:18 < Psi-Jack> streiu: Right after the ^@'s, where the log also stops and doesn't even end the line.
15:18 < krobzaur> notmike: Lol what do you mean?
15:18 < krobzaur> notmike: nah as in not possible?
15:19 < robak> Psi-Jack: this is virtualised platform, and I am willing to blame the 'hw' as well, but I need to prove that to them :S
15:19 < notmike> krobzaur: anything is possible if we can just imagine
15:19 < robak> Psi-Jack: k8s is fairly outdated, 1.7
15:19 < Psi-Jack> robak: Well, the fact that the log /ends/ and doesn't even terminate the newline, that's an example. ;)
15:19 < Psi-Jack> robak: OKay. Well, at least it's not 1.5.x ;)
15:20 < robak> Psi-Jack: it was 1.5 not that long ago ;)
15:20 < Psi-Jack> Oh?
15:20 < robak> Psi-Jack: upgrade happened recently (but not on the timeline of these issues)
15:20 < Psi-Jack> 1.5.0 - 1.5.4 has a 7.5 CVE score with non-authentication required RCE.
15:20 < krobzaur> notmike: Can you help me imagine?
15:20 < jack_rip_vim> Apr 26 04:12:46 master1 rsyslogd: [origin software="rsyslogd" swVersion="8.16.0" x-pid="696" x-info="http://www.rsyslog.com"] start
15:21 < jack_rip_vim> robak, does the @^ always happened with this
15:21 < robak> jack_rip_vim: this is correct
15:21 < notmike> krobzaur: probably you have to write snake code that will use the functions in the .a file, via the .so file to gain access to the information you seek
15:21 < robak> jack_rip_vim: it's literally my only trace in logs
15:22 < jack_rip_vim> robak: I want to know if @^ error always before the rsyslog
15:22 < krobzaur> notmike: Yeah I mean I have all that setup, as in I have a python script that runs and uses all the functionality I want to profile
15:22 < krobzaur> notmike: Now I just need to figure out how to profile it
15:22 < robak> jack_rip_vim: I've even bumped the verbosity of logging on almost anything in hope of catching more information
15:23 < robak> jack_rip_vim: ah, I don't know that yet, I was logging too much and got the logs rotated, I am now waiting for next occurence to get more logs available
15:23 < Psi-Jack> robak: I wonder. Are those servers running a systemd-enabled distribution?
15:23 < notmike> krobzaur: do you mean culebra?
15:23 < robak> Psi-Jack: they are, yes
15:23 < Psi-Jack> robak: Had you checked the kernel logs of the boots where that problem occurred?
15:23 < notmike> krobzaur: are you smoking that shit?
15:23 < Psi-Jack> With journalctl
15:24 < robak> Psi-Jack: Ubuntu 16.04.4 LTS
15:24 < Psi-Jack> notmike: Ahem.
15:24 < robak> Psi-Jack: yes, with journalctl
15:24 < Psi-Jack> robak: Yeah, but did you check the kernel logs of the previous boots where this problem occurred? ;)
15:25 < Psi-Jack> journalctl can show you specific boots. :)
15:25 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: Are you thinking about the memory problems at kernel?
15:25 < Psi-Jack> jack_rip_vim: I'm thinking a few things, but a kernel log at the time might help, for sure.
15:25 < robak> Psi-Jack: I haven't, as I wasn't aware of that possibility, my systemd proficiency is limited to basic stuff to be honest
15:25 < notmike> Had to put krobzaur on ignore, kept pming inappropriate things
15:26 < abahaba> here's my problem: https://paste.linux.community/view/114ccd16
15:26 < Psi-Jack> robak: Yep. Definitely look into that. :)
15:26 < krobzaur> err that's not true just for everybody elses information this guy is clearly trolling me
15:26 < Psi-Jack> robak: journalctl --boot=-1 (shows previous boot)
15:26 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: If it happened with kernel, the memory manage may have some problems
15:27 < Psi-Jack> robak: Take a look at: journalctl --list-boots
15:27 < robak> Psi-Jack: will do
15:28 < Psi-Jack> Might help shed some light, as journalctl without filtering (like -u service), would show you all captured logs. Very powerful journal logs are.
15:29 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: see if the journal log can help with this problems
15:29 < Psi-Jack> Heh. I just said that. LOL
15:30 < abahaba> first line removed: https://paste.linux.community/view/31fca7d0
15:30 < jack_rip_vim> This is a server run with Go language
15:30 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, that's a kubernetes thing.
15:31 < robak> Psi-Jack: oh wow, that's weird - I just discovered that ^@ isn't 'real'. I can see it in less output of the syslog, but I can't grep for it, these are not actual chars in the text file
15:31 < jack_rip_vim> robak: binary code
15:32 < robak> jack_rip_vim: how does the binary code gets into my syslog?
15:32 < streiu> SunOS > FreeBSD > Windows > Linux
15:32 < jack_rip_vim> robak: look like the program has some problems with memory malloc
15:32 < Psi-Jack> streiu: Okay? ...
15:33 < robak> jack_rip_vim: memory malloc? you mean simply with malloc, right?
15:33 < robak> jack_rip_vim: in this case it would be down either to k8s service problem or the compiler that produced the binary I am using?
15:34 < robak> jack_rip_vim: which is likely, since the version I have to run is not a very recent one, so also Go version wouldn't be the latest and greatest
15:34 < TheWild> phre4k: I'm still dealing with this HDD. One of the damaged sectors is 67103744 (0x3FFEC00). Quite too aligned IMHO.
15:34 < jack_rip_vim> robak, when more things malloc to the limited memory space, something will out from box
15:34 < TheWild> I mean, fine before, fine after.
15:35 < jack_rip_vim> robak, try upgrade to the new one, and check the log see if this problems can fix
15:35 < jack_rip_vim> s/fix/be fixed
15:36 < robak> Psi-Jack: unfortunately my journalctl only lists 1 boot and the logs displayed by it starting after the dates I see in syslog for this issue
15:36 < Psi-Jack> D'oh.
15:36 < robak> jack_rip_vim: that's not possible for now, it's a major piece of work that needs to be agreed with corp clients, and so on. Typical crap.
15:36 < Psi-Jack> Might want to increase the number of boots journalctl keeps. :)
15:37 < jack_rip_vim> abahaba: what is the the real problems? there are some assembly code
15:37 < john_rambo> My smplayer now looks like this >>> https://postimg.cc/image/okh12t0vh/...How do I bring back the controls ?
15:37 < abahaba> jack_rip_vim: can't get the assembly code to run correctly, basically
15:37 < jack_rip_vim> robak: waiting for the next time, and try to collect more error log
15:37 < robak> Psi-Jack: I've made a note of this, will get than change applied
15:38 < jack_rip_vim> abahaba: can't compile it?
15:38 < robak> jack_rip_vim: that's pretty much what am I doing, but every time it happens, ^@'s are all I get
15:38 < abahaba> jack_rip_vim: no, i can compile it; it's jus tthat i can't escalate my privs as intended
15:38 < robak> jack_rip_vim: things before these are looking OK-ish
15:39 < robak> Psi-Jack: any other clues you'd have?
15:39 < jack_rip_vim> robak, does it happened with cycle, or it happened at the same time, or at some go module running
15:39 < jack_rip_vim> ?
15:39 < repys> so is the number in the swappiness a percentuage?
15:40 < Psi-Jack> robak: That's all I have, for now at least.
15:40 < jack_rip_vim> abahaba: su to the root, chmod 777 to that program
15:40 < robak> jack_rip_vim: completely randomly, but fairly regularly, to the point it's almost a daily problem
15:40 < Psi-Jack> Never chmod 777!
15:40 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: it is a code
15:40 < gronke> Can someone help me shine a light on why this systemctl service isn't running? Thanks: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/Gvg2S3yWzUjQoT4z2JYD/
15:40 < Psi-Jack> chmod 777 is NEVER the correct thing to do.
15:40 < abahaba> jack_rip_vim: first, chmod777 is really dangerous
15:40 < Psi-Jack> abahaba++
15:40 < abahaba> but also that's NOT what i'm trying to do
15:41 < abahaba> hence it being a security challenge
15:41 < robak> gronke: your service can't bind to the IP it is configured for
15:41 < abahaba> i'm trying to use another user 'test', then escalate privs to a NON-ROOT owner:group using shellcode
15:41 < abahaba> but it's not working :(
15:41 < gronke> robak how do I change that?
15:41  * jack_rip_vim is silly on this things :P
15:41 < robak> gronke: either wrong IP, either wrong confirguration (no configuration?) either something else is listening there already
15:42 < robak> gronke: reconfigure it? check what's configured and compare against available IP's on the system?
15:42 < gronke> robak I just don't know where that ip config is, that's what i'm saying
15:42 < robak> gronke: check out your service documentation
15:43 < jack_rip_vim> robak: collect more info with the error, there must be something that can figure out the problems
15:43 < gronke> robak when I check out the galaxy.service file, there's no IP listed, that's why I'm wondering where the IP would go
15:43 < robak> jack_rip_vim: that's my current approach, yes. I'll increase journalctl data resiliency between boots for now, and we'll see
15:44 < jack_rip_vim> robak: hmm
15:44 < robak> gronke: .service file is systemd configuration, whatever galaxy is, it might have some other config file
15:44 < robak> gronke: read the documentation of your galaxy service, it should be there
15:45 < robak> gronke: if it's not, google for tutorials. if there are none, worst case scenario, strace your galaxy service startup to see if you can see it opening any files and check those
15:45 < abahaba> anyway, i'll be back later today probably
15:45 < jack_rip_vim> abahaba: try more times, you may figure out it by yourself
15:47 < jack_rip_vim> abahaba: But I think it is the permission problems with setuid, setgid and setresuid
15:47 < jack_rip_vim> Oh, abahaba is quit
15:48 < gronke> robak I had the IT people here at the university help me set up the startup service, and so they are the ones who put the IP somewhere. I've reopened the ticket but I didn't want to wait all day for them to respond. I have no idea where they put it.
15:48 < robak> gronke: I told you where to look for
15:49 < robak> gronke: you have to do some homework, I am happy to help you around that, but I won't do it for you
15:49 < Psi-Jack> robak: Heh, I like the way you think. :)
15:50 < gronke> I know, you're both equally insufferable. It's so wonderful.
15:50 < robak> Psi-Jack: ?
15:50 < dogbert2> Debian GNU/Linux 9 snoopy ttyAML0
15:50 < dogbert2> snoopy login: bDeian GNU/Linux 9 snoopy ttyAML0
15:50 < jack_rip_vim> Snoopy~
15:51 < Psi-Jack> robak: Thinking, in terms of following up on things to research, and inquire when stuck, not asking every detail of everything. :)
15:52 < robak> Psi-Jack: I'm old enough around *nix stuff and irc to know how to help efficiently, and how to ask for help. For example, you told me to configure journalctl, that I don't know how to do yet, but I am not going to abuse your time and good will by asking how to do it, I've got an advice and now I'll go away and do my part
15:52 < Psi-Jack> robak++
15:52 < Psi-Jack> Awesome, that. :)
15:53 < robak> Psi-Jack: correcting users attitute like I did gronke in long run will do him more service than me fixing his galaxy-whatever-that-is as hopefully he'll learn a bit about his own service and on how to look for information/help
15:53 < Psi-Jack> Feed a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime.
15:54 < robak> exactly my point
15:54 < Psi-Jack> Words I live by myself. :)
15:54 < robak> well, unless he'll deplete the fish in the sea and pollute them with plastic...
15:54 < robak> but in general sense, yes ;)
15:54 < Psi-Jack> heh
15:55 < jack_rip_vim> fishing a fish
15:55 < robak> wishing a fishing a fish
15:55 < Psi-Jack> Now, the ultimate question. Are you fishing, or are you being phished? heh
15:55 < robak> fish whising a fishing
15:55 < gronke> A man comes asking for a fish, you tell him "Meh, it's in the docs, go find it," and walk away. The man, having no idea where "the docs" is, dies of hunger.
15:55 < jack_rip_vim> XD
15:56 < Psi-Jack> gronke: One unwilling to try is doomed to failure.
15:56 < robak> gronke: you want to use galaxy yes? So you know what that is, yes? I don't know what that is, so I can go to galaxy website and see if there is a 'documentation' link there on it
15:57 < gronke> here's the thing: I think you have absolutely NO IDEA if there's information about an IP in there. I think you just THINK that the documentation contains that information.
15:57 < robak> gronke: and I can't do that, because I don't know what galaxy is in first place, and I tried gooling for it, and I did get a lot of things that could be it, at which point my research makes less sense than yours
15:57 < jamesaxl> gronke: I am jobless and you have to give me money :)
15:57 < robak> gronke: your attitude doesn't help in helping you my friend.
15:57 < gronke> exactly, so you haven't looked, so you have no idea if its in there, so telling me "It's in the service documentation" is bad advice, because you could be wrong. So why even give me that advice?
15:58 < robak> gronke: because this advice had multiple parts, following the docs part.
15:58 < robak> gronke: but my feeling is that you haven't even tried doing so as well, and it is you who needs it, not me
15:58 < gronke> I'm going to try to resist cursing at you, but, by god, stop being such a brick wall. I have been combing through the documentation and I can't find anything on it. That's the very reason I came here in the first place.
15:59 < robak> gronke: help me help you, throw me a link to these docs.
15:59 < gronke> If you don't know the answer, don't even respond to me in the first place, okay? Because clearly you have no idea what you are doing.
15:59 < robak> suits me...
16:00 < robak> I'm kind of surprised that we still have people like that on IRC in 2018
16:00 < robak> I would've thought they all either died or grew up in 1997
16:00 < shan> help, i get incredibly high temperature readings from Freon and incredibly high CPU usage in system monitor, but no process is using over 1% cpu
16:01 < shan> im on fedora 27
16:01 < offo> gj
16:01 < offo> hi
16:01  * jack_rip_vim was three years old at 1997
16:01 < offo> should i study for the ccna or rhcsa first
16:01 < robak> shan: CPU usage might be caused by IO as well
16:01 < offo> ive got like 4-5 months worth of time to try and get both exams
16:01 < robak> shan: not only by processes doing actual computation
16:01 < offo> im kinda ok at linux and i have no idea on networking
16:01 < robak> shan: IO usually means either disk or network IO
16:02 < Psi-Jack> offo: Two completely different subjects entirely.
16:02 < Psi-Jack> I'd say.. RHCSA, then.
16:02 < robak> 4-5h?
16:02 < robak> Not really doable for either of these
16:02 < offo> well ill most likely do cybersec for my masters starting from october so im guessing ccna aligns better with my field ?
16:02 < robak> ah, months, not hours ;)
16:02 < Psi-Jack> hehe
16:02 < shan> and i got a failed to start load kernel modules message at boot, but systemctl status systemd-modules-load.service shows that it was active and exited with code 0
16:02 < jack_rip_vim> offo, it is a good idea to have a trainning with ccna or RHCSA, but I like to learn it by myself. It can be more interesting
16:02 < offo> id thought i could get a parttime job or somehting during masters
16:03 < Psi-Jack> offo: I wouldn't agree, no. CCNA gives you knowledge of cisco routers.
16:03 < offo> yeah i wanna do self learn too
16:03 < Psi-Jack> RHCSA gives you hands on knowledge with Linux.
16:03 < robak> CCNA value is lower these days I think
16:03 < Psi-Jack> It does.
16:03 < robak> network moved 'to cloud'
16:03 < robak> it's all icons on aws/gcp nowdays
16:03 < offo> hmm then what other achievable certs are there
16:03 < robak> no one cares about network
16:03 < robak> or security
16:03 < robak> or ops
16:03 < offo> And Employable
16:03 < robak> it's all icons, it can't be that hard, lets give it to devs!
16:04 < robak> offo: knowledge is employable, never certs
16:04 < robak> no matter what certs are these
16:04 < Psi-Jack> ^
16:04 < offo> well i see certs as a good structure to learning
16:04 < robak> you will get verified at interviews
16:04 < offo> [correct me if im wrong lol]
16:04 < Psi-Jack> offo: You are wrong.
16:04 < offo> also why do some people passionately hate red hat
16:04 < robak> it could be, if you're leraning to know, and not to pass exams
16:04 < offo> at first sight they look ok.
16:04 < Psi-Jack> offo: Why do some people passionately hate Microsoft?
16:05 < offo> afaik red hat Helps Open Source Software
16:05 < jack_rip_vim> I like MS-DOS
16:05 < shan> robak: no unusual disk rw that i can see
16:05 < Psi-Jack> offo: They do.
16:05 < offo> and... thats good ?
16:05 < robak> offo: because RH grew big and now pulls open source projects into their own direction using money indirectly by hirigin enginneers who contribute to these
16:05 < robak> offo: effectively taking over open source projects in the end
16:06 < shan> robak: but this is the kind of cpu activity im seeing https://imgur.com/a/zP9HshH
16:06 < offo> well it still open source isnt it so wats the problem there :\
16:06 < uplime> contributing to open source doesn't magically make you a good company
16:06 < streiu> AIX > Mac OS X > Android > Linux
16:06 < robak> shan: it could be actual failures, not thruotput
16:06 < Psi-Jack> !ops streiu Obvious trolling
16:06 < robak> offo: not everyone likes systemd
16:06 < shan> robak: what kinda failures
16:06 < robak> offo: a lot of systems adopted it 'because RH'
16:07 < offo> yeah me neither :\
16:07 < robak> offo: now these open source projects have things they didn't like
16:07 < jack_rip_vim> Selling Linux
16:07 < robak> offo: but 'what is the problem, its still open source!'
16:07 < uplime> jack_rip_vim: 1 linux please
16:07 < Psi-Jack> Selling /support/ for Linux.
16:07 < streiu> Certs suck, they don't prove ur a linux whiz by any means
16:08 < offo> tink i can install arch with no guide
16:08 < illkitten> besides /var/log/cron how can I check other logs to see why my script failed?
16:08 < offo> #ProUnix #TopOnePercent
16:08 < oiaohm> robak: systemd was not just taken up because of RH.      The prior systems were not that great either.
16:08 < jack_rip_vim> If Linux kernel under Unlicense, what would happened?
16:08 < robak> offo: anyway, in my professional opinion, if you want a cert - get one, but don't make the cert a goal, but rather the knowledge. And RHC* are a better idea nowdays than CC* - my PERSONAL opinion
16:08 < uplime> illkitten: yourscript 2>/some/log
16:08 < uplime> in the crontab
16:08 < illkitten> uplime: thanks
16:08 < offo> yeah i wanna learn as Well.
16:08 < uplime> robak: what is CC*?
16:09 < robak> oiaohm: that was a very simplified story on what happened, and I didn't mean to imply what was before systemd was better or worse.
16:09 < Psi-Jack> uplime: Cisco Certified *
16:09 < robak> uplime: CCNA for example
16:09 < uplime> ah
16:09 < shan> robak: it was folding@home
16:09 < uplime> I still need to read the study stuff for that
16:09 < oiaohm> robak: those who invest in developers have the most control over projects.
16:09 < uplime> I'm not sure if I'll take the exam though
16:09 < jack_rip_vim> CCNA->CCNP->CCIE, then, you have to pay a lot of money
16:09 < shan> system monitor was set to show "My Processes" so i didn't see it
16:09 < offo> Tinkin wat career path is least botnet
16:10 < offo> Web development looow down the ladder
16:10 < robak> shan: here you go
16:10 < robak> shan: good job figuring it out
16:10 < offo> Its a shame cuz i have huge Skills in Symfony PHP.
16:10 < robak> web development is bonkers now
16:10 < jack_rip_vim> I can code PHP
16:10 < jack_rip_vim> too
16:10 < robak> you could get hired in hours
16:10 < shan> robak: thanks, i just installed it yesterday and i guess it set itself to autostart
16:11 < robak> everyone does some degree of 'web development'
16:11 < robak> simply 'web development' doesn't mean 'PHP' anymore
16:11 < uplime> the only web development i do is setting up passgenger/sinatra
16:11 < robak> it's more of 'angular/js/node/go/whatever'
16:11 < jack_rip_vim> Nodejs~
16:11 < jack_rip_vim> Python~
16:12 < zapotah> knowing how to hack together something doesnt mean you can actually engineer code
16:12 < offo> Yea i know
16:12 < zapotah> india "knows" php
16:12 < zapotah> and java
16:12 < zapotah> and many others
16:12 < offo> Strong succint sentence
16:13 < jack_rip_vim> creating a stable framework
16:13 < zapotah> you end up with "applications" that "need" 64GB of memory for the smallest deployment
16:13 < streiu> Fuck javascript, curl is where it is
16:13 < offo> I jst think the internet was a mistake
16:13 < offo> and/or javascript
16:13 < offo> And i wanna do good in this world
16:13 < offo> Idk what field fits me
16:13 < robak> zapotah: it's reality check. hardware is cheaper than engineers time
16:14 < zapotah> robak: there are limits to that
16:14 < robak> zapotah: the end result for a business, it's better to pay more for biggger hw than for a better code
16:14 < jack_rip_vim> I think I am a farmer
16:14 < offo> What
16:14 < robak> zapotah: not really, not on an exec spreadsheet ;)
16:14 < andai> robak: dang
16:14 < robak> andai: ?
16:14 < jack_rip_vim> offo, yeah
16:14 < zapotah> robak: there comes a point when the damn thing just doesnt work no matter how much hardware you throw at it
16:14 < robak> zapotah: sure, see TSB
16:15 < robak> zapotah: and yet, nothing will change
16:15 < andai> robak: about it being cheaper to just get more hardware instead of better engineers
16:15 < zapotah> robak: not as long as "developers" get hired and "produce" absolute garbage
16:15 < pankaj> I want to resize an ext4 partition but when I type 'fdisk -l /dev/Device_Partition_ID' the type is 'HPFS/NTFS/exFAT'. Now, should I resize with 'resize2fs' or not?
16:15 < robak> zapotah: reality check again
16:16 < robak> zapotah: I would be inclined to agree, and yet companies do get cheapest people and most expensive hardware
16:16 < robak> see AWS
16:16 < zapotah> robak: i know what the reality is
16:16 < Psi-Jack> Well, AWS.. They make a lot of their own hardware.
16:16 < robak> then here you go ;)
16:16 < zapotah> robak: those very same people are shaking in their boots due to gdpr right now
16:16 < robak> Psi-Jack: the point is, you can get much more hw for their prices
16:16 < jack_rip_vim> how about DO, cheeper server
16:16 < robak> and yet, they're killing it
16:17 < robak> because it is cheaper to get 'infinite' AWS compute resources
16:17 < robak> than to hire 20 highly skilled engineers
16:17 < zapotah> i cant wait for the hammer to fall on the first people
16:17 < robak> pay for their retirement
16:17 < robak> sick time
16:17 < robak> overtime
16:17 < robak> same can be delivered by 10 low skilled people
16:17 < jack_rip_vim> wish I have a good.
16:17 < robak> we'll just buy more AWS servers
16:17 < Psi-Jack> robak: Well, AWS can be simple, but to use it properly, is not so simple.
16:18 < robak> Psi-Jack: you don't need to tell me, I do it for a living ;)
16:18 < Psi-Jack> Same. LOL
16:18 < Psi-Jack> AWS Certified DevOps Engineer. :)
16:18 < zapotah> oh lord...
16:18 < Psi-Jack> Paid for by my last employer. heh
16:19 < jack_rip_vim> You can buy more RPI board to set up hadoop, to get more computing
16:19 < Psi-Jack> RPi doesn't even have a speculating ARM CPU, so no, not true. :p
16:20 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: this is the magic of cloud, use limited source to do the power things
16:20  * shan sudo dnf remove fahclient
16:20  * shan breathes sigh of relief as temps shoot down
16:20 < robak> zapotah: no hammer will fall
16:21 < Psi-Jack> jack_rip_vim: You obviously haven't seen CloudFormation. :)
16:21 < cronolio> how to say to man-db to show man output as text (without highlighting) ?
16:21 < robak> economy is ruthless here - what is being done, 'works'
16:21 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: Yeah
16:21 < robak> Psi-Jack: cloudformation isn't that bad with troposphere, for example
16:21 < offo> what about LPIc?
16:21 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: I only have my old secondhand fluppy computer
16:22 < Psi-Jack> robak: I tried troposphere once. I actually prefer cloudformation in Yaml over it.
16:22 < Psi-Jack> offo: Useless.
16:22 < offo> Lpic 1.
16:22 < robak> Psi-Jack: I did fairly large things with it, and I kind of like it, even more so than Terraform, for example
16:22 < offo> Wonderin if its achievable to get RHCE in 4 months of self study
16:22 < djph> "maybe"
16:23 < robak> Psi-Jack:  mostly because I'm python guy, but also because tropo gives you real programming language to solve problems, instead of meta language like terraform
16:23 < Psi-Jack> robak: I've used Troposphere, Terraform, CloudFormation JSON and YAML. Terraform and CFN-YAML I prefer more.
16:23 < Psi-Jack> I too am a Python guy. Heh
16:23 < robak> Psi-Jack: to each their own
16:23 < Psi-Jack> Indeed.
16:23 < robak> ;)
16:24  * jack_rip_vim is a python guy too
16:24 < robak> Psi-Jack: can terraform finally do that? https://github.com/bartekrutkowski/cloudhsm/blob/master/cloudhsm.py
16:24 < robak> Psi-Jack: it couldn't when I needed, so I have to write this thing
16:24  * jack_rip_vim actually, he learns a lot of computer language
16:24 < Psi-Jack> robak: Summarize, what's it do?
16:25 < robak> Psi-Jack: manages fairly new AWS CloudHSMv2 instances - creates them and holds them in desired state, could be used as a terraform dummy resource
16:25 < robak> I should write a proper README.md one day...
16:26 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmmm... I don't think terraform can, but, I'm not sure.
16:26 < jack_rip_vim> robak: will that code running well?
16:27 < robak> Psi-Jack: that's the reason why I prefer tropo/py over terraform
16:27 < jack_rip_vim> s/running/run
16:27 < robak> jack_rip_vim: um, sorry, what?
16:27 < robak> jack_rip_vim: it should, it did last time I tried ;)
16:27 < jack_rip_vim> robak: the cloudhsm
16:27 < Psi-Jack> That's interesting stuff. Troposphere can definitely do /more/ than Terraform ever could, because, it can interface with AWS any number of ways. Generate CFN and upload it, wait for it to finish, add more that required waitng on, etc.
16:27 < robak> jack_rip_vim: why do you ask?
16:27 < jack_rip_vim> robak: gonna try it on some funny server
16:28 < robak> jack_rip_vim: this isn't something you try on some server...
16:28 < robak> jack_rip_vim: do you know what CloudHSM is?
16:28 < robak> jack_rip_vim: or HSM for that matter
16:29 < jack_rip_vim> robak: I don't know, but give me one night, I can figure out it
16:29 < streiu> Linux or Hurd?
16:29 < robak> jack_rip_vim: if you have enough money for AWS bill ;)
16:29 < robak> jack_rip_vim: but then again, it still isn't something you can run 'on a server'
16:29 < robak> even very funny one
16:30 < jack_rip_vim> robak, I can borrow some of it
16:30 < robak> okay...
16:30 < robak> at this point you must be trolling
16:30 < robak> ;)
16:30 < jack_rip_vim> robak, come on, give me some chances to make some mistakes
16:31 < robak> Psi-Jack: pretty much yes, I've been creating CF templates that were share'able and expose'able to other people with tropo, for example
16:31 < robak> jack_rip_vim: can you run a rice pudding on a server? No. This is pretty much what CloudHSM has in common with servers.
16:33 < jack_rip_vim> robak: maybe you want to borrow me a server so that I have chance to have a look with it
16:33 < Armand> robak: I could make rice pudding on a server... if that counts.
16:34 < robak> Armand: not if that pudding can't run on it
16:34 < Armand> It's a rice pudding... it's going to be runny.
16:34 < robak> jack_rip_vim: I can borrow you 10 servers, and it won't make a difference. CloudHSM has nothing to do with servers.
16:34 < Armand> At least, until it gets too cold.
16:35 < jack_rip_vim> robak, so, borrow me some driver that can run it
16:35 < robak> jack_rip_vim: okay, either trolling either drunk/high.
16:36 < jack_rip_vim> robak: don't worried, I will figure out where the cloudshm can run with
16:36 < Egyptian> hi .. i got a mystery here .. when i run hostname i get server.domain .. when i run hostname -f i get localhost .. when i run domain name i get (none) .. why? how to fix?
16:36 < jack_rip_vim> since linux can run on patato, I think I can figure out it
16:38 < robak> Egyptian: what linux distro and version?
16:39 < jack_rip_vim> robak, from the code, I know it can communicate with driver or do some inner process communication
16:39 < Egyptian> ubuntu 16
16:40 < robak> Egyptian: http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2016/06/change-hostname-ubuntu-16-04-without-restart/
16:40 < Egyptian> i found that i had an entry as 127.0.0.1 localhost $hostname in /etc/hosts .. i deleted it and it fixed the hostname but .. something added it back in
16:40 < robak> Egyptian: that entry is correct, you shouldn't be deleting it
16:41 < jack_rip_vim> robak, I will set up it on some small clouds
16:41 < Egyptian> ok
16:42 < Egyptian> robak: thanks a million!
16:42 < jack_rip_vim> robak, this is a examming test. no trying to perform it on a real cloud
16:42 < robak> no problem
16:43 < jack_rip_vim> :)
16:44 < jack_rip_vim> I order some ARM chipset online, will be home in few days, I will use it to build my own board to have some fun
16:47 < pankaj> I want to resize a partition. When I type lsblk it shows  filesystem on that device is ext3 but when I type fdisk then it shows 'HPFS/NTFS/exFAT'. So, should I use 'resize2fs' to resize the filesystem or what should I do?
16:48 < jack_rip_vim> pankaj, which filesystem is what you need?
16:48 < BluesKaj> pankaj, use gparted live media, it's probly the best partitioner available
16:49 < pankaj> jack_rip_vim: First I just want to know that with the information I gave above what is the filesystem on that device. Because with lsblk it says 'ext3' and with 'fdisk' it says 'HTFS/NTFS/exFAT'.?
16:50 < pankaj> BluesKaj: I want a text based utility so that I can use it in tty.
16:50 < section1> file -s /dev/sdax
16:51 < dannylee> ||
16:51 < BluesKaj> \/me shrugs ...it's actually a debian based live OS, but to each his own
16:52 < section1> yeah gparted its perfect for this type of actions.
16:53 < jack_rip_vim> pankaj: I think that isn't a problem
16:53 < p53ud0nym> How do I disable '/sys/firmware/acpi/interrupts/sci_not' and what is it?
16:53 < pankaj> jack_rip_vim: So, I can use 'resize2fs' to resize that partition. Right?
16:54 < p53ud0nym> `echo "disable" > /sys/firmware/acpi/interrupts/sci_not` gives invalid argument.
16:54 < jack_rip_vim> pankaj: yes
16:54 < revel> p53ud0nym: I have no idea what it is and people may or may not tell you not to do it, but do that echo with '0' instead.
16:54 < p53ud0nym> @revel: I already have done. Same error.
16:55 < p53ud0nym> and with "off"...
16:55 < revel> Then maybe it's not the correct one.
16:55 < revel> It's generally '0' for disable and '1' for enable for things like that.
16:55 < ananke>  other than dsniff, are there any other sniffers than can perform automatic extraction of usernames/passwords from known protocols? trying to automate some discovery
16:55 < pankaj> jack_rip_vim: OK. But I am just curious to know what does 'HPFS/NTFS/exFAT' mean. I have googled it but could not get proper answer.
16:57 < p53ud0nym> I have 100% CPU kworker thread. I disabled gpe8 and sci. Now I cannot disable sci_not. Is my h/w failing?
16:58 < section1> pankaj, fdisk returns the 'type' of the partition.not the raeal FS on it
16:58 < jack_rip_vim> pankaj: when you run fdisk, it will run the filesystem header. some of the filesystem headers are similar, so the info will show up the filesystem type like that
17:00 < pankaj> jack_rip_vim: I just want to confirm that it uses ext3 so that I do not have any problem dealing with 'resize2fs' on my 1.5 Terabyte External hard disk so that I can resize and create another partition on that device.
17:03 < jack_rip_vim> pankaj: I think you don't need to worry about resize2fs will change your filesystem type.
17:04 < jack_rip_vim> pankaj: it just mark the part, no your system
17:04 < pankaj> jack_rip_vim: OK. So, I am going to use 'resize2fs' to resize that partition.
17:04 < jack_rip_vim> pankaj: yeah
17:05 < section1> 'resize2fs' its only for resize a filesystem not a partition.
17:05 < section1> two deferents things..
17:06 < jack_rip_vim> adjust the partition
17:06 < section1> different*
17:08 < section1> pankaj, and if you want to shrink a partiton to make space for a new one... first do a backup...and then usse gparted.
17:09 < vivus> which text editor can preserve my opened files between sessions?
17:10 < section1> vivus, i don't know if that editor exist...but you can use screen+editor
17:10 < jack_rip_vim> vivus, how about backup it before edit it?
17:12 < ruslangaripov> vivus: Vim https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1416572/vi-vim-restore-opened-files
17:12 < offo> vivus: emacs?
17:13 < V7> Interesting
17:14 < V7> On local and remote machines output of command "du -sb directory" differs
17:14 < V7> Specially recopied the same directory
17:14 < V7> With sftp
17:14 < V7> Coulod anyone suggest why ?
17:15 < SuperSeriousCat> Same filesystem?
17:15 < ayecee> V7: use --apparent-size option
17:16 < V7> Yes
17:16 < V7> Filesystem is the same (ext4)
17:16 < V7> ayecee: Already tried
17:16 < V7> The same
17:16 < ayecee> same numbers?
17:16 < V7> On local 578087
17:16 < V7> On remote 533031
17:17 < ayecee> V7: same numbers?
17:17 < V7> ayecee: as you can see, no
17:17 < V7> It's really strange
17:17 < ayecee> no, i mean when you use --apparent-size
17:17 < V7> I'll try now
17:17 < V7> Yes, the same
17:18 < ayecee> please try again
17:18 < section1> hehe
17:18 < ayecee> they should not be the same.
17:19 < V7> ayecee: "clear && du -sb --apparent-size . && du -sb ." gives
17:19 < jim_chat> maybe one number represents the amount used on disk and the other represents the amount that would be sent.  remember disk allocates in blocks where network transfers tend to send actual size
17:19 < V7> 578087  .
17:19 < V7> 578087  .
17:19 < ayecee> how about on the remote
17:20 < section1> a think that the flag -b its  --apparent-size
17:20 < ayecee> no, it isn't
17:20 < ayecee> oh hey, it is
17:20 < section1> ok no..but its "--apparent-size --block-size=1"
17:20 < ayecee> that makes sense then
17:20 < V7> On the remote, the same commands give: 533031  .
17:20 < V7> 533031  .
17:21 < ayecee> alright! the contents of the directories are different.
17:21 < V7> How to check ?
17:21 < ayecee> you just did
17:21 < ||JD||> did you skip hidden files when copying?
17:21 < section1> maybe an md5sum
17:21 < V7> ||JD||: I guess no, there no hidden files
17:23 < V7> Interesting
17:24 < V7> Command "du -b --apparent-size ." on local gives https://i.imgur.com/ct8jx6Q.png
17:24 < TheWild> I have stupid problem. "mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda2" does not work, claiming sda2 is mounted. "umount /dev/sda2" claims it is not mounted. "mkfs.ext4 -FF /dev/sda2" doesn't work anyway, claiming the device or resource is busy.
17:24 < V7> On remote: https://i.imgur.com/7i2qbxu.png
17:25 < jack_rip_vim> TheWild: run it with root
17:25 < MrElendig> post findmnt output
17:25 < V7> Also, data/temp/image is empty, but it shows 4096
17:25 < jack_rip_vim> TheWild: umount it with -l flag
17:25 < V7> Also, on remote it shows 0
17:25 < MrElendig> also, is this a chroot/similar?
17:25 < V7> But in local it shows 4096
17:25 < V7> Interesitng
17:26 < V7> Does anyone know what is it ?
17:26 < TheWild> jack_rip_vim: I used sudo before
17:26 < section1> V7, 4096 its  the size of the dir
17:27 < jack_rip_vim> TheWild: sudo umount -l /dev/sda2
17:27 < TheWild> "sudo umount -l /dev/sda2" also says it's not mounted
17:27 < section1> V7, maybe differents du versions ?
17:27 < jack_rip_vim> TheWild: then mkfs.ext4 -F /dev/sda2
17:28 < V7> section1: How to check ?
17:28 < TheWild> jack_rip_vim: screw that. I abused losetup to create another loop device, then I was able to mkfs it.
17:29 < jack_rip_vim> TheWild: look like it has been mount on bad point
17:29 < sevagh> hello. if i add aliases to a sudoers file, e.g. `Host_Alias TEST = test[1-3]`, is there a way I can test the expansion of this? if i do `visudo -x`, it prints `test[1-3]`, and not `test1, test2, test3` (which is the evaluation of the range)
17:29 < jack_rip_vim> s/mount/mounted
17:29 < Dagmar> If you're expecting used + free = total you're in for a bad time
17:30 < MS201010> Hi
17:30 < philwong> Hi
17:31 < seven-eleven> Hi
17:31 < jack_rip_vim> o/
17:31 < noodlepie> HI MS201010
17:31 < V7> Hey
17:32 < section1> V7, du --v
17:32 < V7> Same 8.25
17:32 < philwong> What is the "snappy-est" distro of linux for multitasking? I need a distro that is very fast/responsive that handles multiple tasks. I do not game or do graphic intensive tasks but I use a lot of tabs, skype, etc
17:33 < Dagmar> philwong: All of them
17:33 < Dagmar> philwong: This isn't a toy operating system
17:33 < jack_rip_vim> philwong: I think you can try tmux with any linux distro.
17:34 < V7> section1: Thank you, but as you can see their versions are the same
17:35 < jack_rip_vim> philwong: for DE, you can try openbox, i3wm, fvwm and some other DE
17:35 < ||JD||> isn't data corruption a common thing with ftp/sftp transfers? how are you discarding truncated files in the remote server?
17:35 < compdoc> no, I transfer that way often
17:35 < TheWild> I lost some data (~13MB) from that "out of nothing" bad HDD with pending sectors. I tracked down what files were lost and fortunately it was an archive with some flash games.
17:36 < philwong> Because I use windows, its good when it first gets installed, after a while it gets very choppy
17:36 < jack_rip_vim> TheWild: backup the left
17:36 < philwong> And I am using an SSD
17:36 < section1> V7, yeah i think that the directories that have size is because in the past have files ...
17:36 < ohcanada> sevagh: i've never heard of expansions for things in sudoers other than globs for paths
17:36 < jack_rip_vim> philwong: you can try those DE that I said
17:36 < philwong> Ok
17:36 < philwong> DE stands for?
17:36 < giaco> hello!
17:37 < Psi-Jack> Desktop Environment
17:37 < jack_rip_vim> philwong: yeah, Psi-Jack is right
17:37 < TheWild> jack_rip_vim: yup, already did that
17:37 < philwong> ok
17:37 < ohcanada> sevagh: i think you might have to just say `Host_Alias TEST = test1 test2 test3`
17:38 < jack_rip_vim> TheWild: you are lucky, last time, I lost all my collection.
17:38 < sevagh> it actually does work though. the syntax is wonky. e.g. `test[135]` becomes `test1, test3, test5`. `test[1-9]` will expand to 1,2,3,...,9
17:38 < sevagh> it's documented but not exactly the same as grep regexes
17:38 < section1> V7, are you sure that the remote its not xfs filesystem ? or other ?
17:39 < giaco> I have a linux machine account with no root credentials. The installed bins are just bare minimum and I need to build a development environment on my own. It is just like starting a fresh new minecraft works. What would you do to have a userspace package manager? I've been testing brewlinux but many packages are missing. I've also been thinking to drop a VM in userspace but surely non optimal. Any suggestion?
17:39 < ohcanada> sevagh: ah i see
17:39 < Dagmar> giaco: We have no such thing as "machine accounts"
17:39 < sevagh> but really the only way i found is by actually distributing the sudoers file to a bunch of hosts and discovering annoyances that way
17:39 < MrElendig> giaco: pkgsrc/nix/guix
17:39 < sevagh> just wish there was a way to introspect on how sudoers does it. like `visudo --evaluate`
17:40 < giaco> Dagmar: I mean user account
17:40 < giaco> MrElendig: thanks
17:40 < MrElendig> every package manager is in userspace though
17:40 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: are you using slacklinux?
17:40 < giaco> jack_rip_vim: no, it is a centos 7
17:41 < giaco> MrElendig: but here I can't yum install
17:41 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: I bet you choose mini-installed
17:41 < giaco> jack_rip_vim: I am not the administrator nor the owner of the system. I have a user account and I am on my own
17:41 < giaco> Compiling is not a problem, it is a 400 core machine
17:41 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: mount the CD, cd to the package dir, rpm -i to install what you need
17:42 < hubot> i'm getting error "go install net: open /usr/lib/go-1.7/pkg/linux_amd64/net.a: permission denied" when i try install postfix-onion-transport
17:42 < pankaj> section1: Yes, You are right. I want to shrink the partition but I do not have any backup facility left because the device I am dealing with is itself kept for dealing with backup. The thing is that the device has only one partition and it is too big so I thought to divide between two.
17:42 < giaco> jack_rip_vim: I don't have sudo, what should I get with rmp -i?
17:42 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: OH, only one way to fix it, reinstall the system, choose centos 7 cd
17:42 < MrElendig> hubot: don't set goroot to something system wide?
17:42 < Dagmar> hubot: Sounds like a problem for #go because something's gone very wrong with the installer framework you're using
17:43 < MrElendig> if you want to install something system wide then use your distro package manager
17:43 < catmando> hey all
17:43 < philwong> do these distros support Youtube and flash?
17:43 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: you didn't have the machine, no the network, you can do nothing
17:43 < catmando> i have a corrupted filesystem i need to try and recover
17:43 < philwong> Well Dont car about flash but Youtube videos do they support them?
17:43 < MrElendig> philwong: youtube doesn't require flash
17:43 < jack_rip_vim> philwong: yes
17:43 < philwong> Thanks
17:43 < MrElendig> and flash will finally die in a year and a half
17:44 < ohcanada> they said that 10 years ago
17:44 < section1> pankaj, yeah if the shrink fails for x reason  maybe you can lost information...so when shrink the backup its always recommended
17:44 < jack_rip_vim> MrElendig: I believe it will be still alive for three years
17:44 < giaco> jack_rip_vim: you are not getting it wrong. I am not the system administrator. I don't have sudo. I have internet connection. Actually I am using brewlinux but I was wondering if I could find something with more packages
17:45 < catmando> specifically, the error is: 'inode table for block 234 is not in block (block 7028)"
17:45 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: does gcc installed?
17:45 < MrElendig> jack_rip_vim: 2020
17:45 < catmando> from fsck
17:45 < pankaj> section1: You are right. I think I need to do something about it.
17:45 < giaco> jack_rip_vim: yes, I have it through brewlinux
17:45 < MrElendig> sometime in 2020 anyway
17:45 < ohcanada> flash will still be around when the replacement for openh264 and friends is replaced ...
17:46 < jack_rip_vim> MrElendig: the program is died, but, after it, it will be another three years
17:46 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: download the source code, you can compile it to a dir
17:46 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: then you can perform the magic
17:47 < pankaj> section1: Just one question I was asking at that time but I was not able to get it properly. 'blkid' gives me type 'ext3' for that partition but 'fdisk' says 'HPFS/NTFS/exFAT'. This second one; What does it even mean.
17:47 < MrElendig> " Specifically, we will stop updating and distributing the Flash Player at the end of 2020 and encourage content creators to migrate any existing Flash content to these new open formats."
17:47 < MrElendig> pankaj: blkid etc can't actually tell what the fs is
17:47 < Dagmar> pankaj: The second tool looks at a flag set on the partition to determine what it's supposed to be.  the first one actually looks at the filesystem in that partition
17:48 < catmando> anuyone?
17:48 < MrElendig> pankaj: and the partition type doesn't have to correspond to the fs on it at all
17:48 < giaco> jack_rip_vim: I know how to install packages from source. As I said I am already using linuxbrew and I've been compiling every single package. I was asking for an alternative to handle package dependencies.
17:48 < section1> pankaj, fdisk gives you the TYPE of the partition..not the real filesystem... to check the real filesystem you can do "file -s /dev/sdax" sure its ext3
17:48 < Dagmar> giaco: Actually putting on the admin hat and personally making sure anything that's a dependency is compiled first
17:48 < MrElendig> (also lsblk is a much better tool than blkid)
17:48 < Dagmar> Works 100% of the time
17:48 < vivus> section1, jack_rip_vim , ruslangaripov , offo : sublime text does it. you open a few files. shut down PC, restart, open sublime and those files are still there. No other editor offers this?
17:48 < section1> pankaj, you can change the partition tipe in fdisk with the 't' key.
17:48 < MrElendig> section1: file is not quite reliable, specially not for ext234
17:48 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: for linuxbrew, I don't know which package manager it has been using, so, i can't help
17:49 < MrElendig> typically ext 2, 3 and 4 use the same kernel module anyway these days though
17:49 < jack_rip_vim> vivus, I see what you need, you can try atom too
17:49 < giaco> Dagmar: sure, I can do that, but it would take days. I am confident about alternative quicker approaches, just line brewlinux, but with more packages
17:50 < section1> MrElendig, hum always i test works fine for my..exmaple : /dev/vda2: Linux rev 1.0 ext3 filesystem data
17:50 < vivus> jack_rip_vim: is there anything lighter than atom that doesn't use a chrome shell?
17:50 < ohcanada> pankaj: fdisk doesn't report filesystem types, it reports partition types
17:50 < MrElendig> section1: distinguishing between ext3 and ext4 is actually really hard
17:50 < jack_rip_vim> vivus: no, I think.
17:50 < ohcanada> you can have ext4 filesystem in a 'fat32' partition
17:51 < vivus> ok ty
17:51 < MrElendig> section1: they are really the same fs, just that ext4 has some extensions on top
17:51 < section1> MrElendig, yeah that case its an ext3 with ext4 module
17:51 < MrElendig> section1: ext2..4 are really the same fs, but linus semi-arbitary decided to rename it
17:51 < section1> yeap
17:51 < Dagmar> giaco: No it won't.  If you can't be bothered to read the install docs and the output of configure scripts, you've no business attempting to compile things from source code anyway
17:51 < Dagmar> giaco: You are essentially asking, "How do I do this work, without actually doing any work?"
17:52 < giaco> jack_rip_vim: linuxbrew is not a distribution, is a userspace package manager. You do 'brew install <formula>' and it fetches dependencies and installs everything in ~/.brewlinux/...
17:52 < section1> aand this one its an pure ext4 /dev/vda3: Linux rev 1.0 ext4
17:53 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: sound like some packages manager that I never used, which distro are you using?
17:53 < toothe> Is there a way to have a service startup by default?
17:53 < giaco> Dagmar: are you kidding me? Are you saying that compiling everything manually from source is better than tracking dependencies automatically?
17:54 < Dagmar> giaco: I'm saying that there's no such thing as "automatic" when it comes to compile-time dependencies.  The only reason you can even run those brew install scripts is that someone else already mapped those out
17:55 < giaco> jack_rip_vim: I am on a centos 7 mainframe with 400 cores with a barebone environment without root access. I need to create a userspace environment.
17:55 < Dagmar> If they arne't already mapped out it's your job to do it
17:55 < ananke> giaco: what type of packages are you looking to be able to manage?
17:55 < Dagmar> Or, in this case, call in a consultant
17:55 < Dagmar> You're basically asking us to do your job for you now
17:55 < Dagmar> That's not cool
17:55 < jack_rip_vim> giaco: OK, sound like an amazing machine
17:55 < giaco> Dagmar: sure, that is what I am asking. Do you know any userspace package manager alternative to linuxbrew with more packages?
17:55 < Dagmar> None that will cost you less than $80/hour
17:56 < giaco> Dagmar: I am a researcher, now paying directly for it and it is shared
17:57 < Dagmar> That doesn't change anything
17:57 < Dagmar> If you're a "researcher" then guess what... you have a lot of research to do
17:57 < ananke> giaco: perhaps we could focus on your problem, rather than bickering with random folks. what kind of packages are you looking to manage?
17:57 < Dagmar> Clearly some of it will be finding a local consultant to build your giant and very obviously budgeted environment for you.
17:58 < jack_rip_vim> I think rpm is a good tool for that
17:58 < ananke> rpm is a very poor choice for that
17:58 < jack_rip_vim> there are rpm-build tool for building rpm package
17:59 < ananke> jack_rip_vim: except most are aimed at system-wide deployment, not contained to specific users
17:59 < jack_rip_vim> OK
17:59 < giaco> ananke: I am interested in geospatial packages, such as grass7, that is not present in into brewlinux formula tree. I am installing the available dependencies using brewlinux and getting ready to compile grass7 from source, but first I'd like to answer to the question "is brewlinux the right tool?"
17:59 < toothe> What exactly is Avahi?
17:59 < MrElendig> nix/guix works better
17:59 < jack_rip_vim> look rpm is a bad choice
17:59 < MrElendig> toothe: wikipedia page explains it pretty well
17:59 < jack_rip_vim> look like*
17:59 < toothe> yeah, i'mr eading it. I dont' get it.
18:00 < toothe> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/avahi
18:00 < ananke> giaco: look at conda
18:00 < ananke> giaco: and no, brewlinux is not the right tool
18:00 < ananke> giaco: easybuild may also be an option, but it's more advanced
18:01 < MrElendig> could always use slack/flatpack
18:01 < MrElendig> stack*
18:01 < MrElendig> toothe: which bit don't you understand, and did you also follow the links?
18:01 < ananke> flatpack requires admin privileges on the underlying system to create appropriate setup, he doesn't have that option
18:02 < kishore96_> You can also use lfatpak without admin privileges, IIRC.
18:02 < kishore96_> *flatpak
18:02 < ananke> giaco: I imagine you're on sgi uv300
18:02 < kishore96_> flatpak --user or something.
18:02  * rendolf pours MrElendig and Dagmar into D[_], covers the top with jack_rip_vim, shakes it all and serves it to ananke on toothe as a plate
18:03 < jack_rip_vim> lol
18:03 < Dagmar> Don't involve me in that fool's insanity
18:03 < octet> I am trying to make a UEFI-only USB in Gparted. I have it as GPT, with fat32, flags as "boot, esp", but there is no column for mountpoint in gparted. I have copied all contents from the iso including hidden files, secureboot is off/CSM enabled. Any ideas?
18:04 < giaco> ananke: actually I'm quite curious about what the hardware is, I still have to perform some queries. I've just received the ssh access and I'm still on my first steps
18:04 < Dagmar> What he's got is a large environment, no clue, and a desire to rope other people's hard-earned expertise into his poorly thought-out plan
18:04 < rendolf> Dagmar: this is why nobody invites you to parties
18:04 < Dagmar> I'll put up with insanity only for the sake of money
18:04 < MrElendig> octet: iso of what?
18:05 < octet> debian live usb
18:05 < ananke> giaco: 'lscpu'. see if you see lots of lines starting with NUMA
18:05 < octet> amd64
18:05 < MrElendig> why not simply write the iso to the usb stick using dd?
18:05 < MrElendig> unlike what you are trying to do, it actually works
18:05 < Dagmar> rendolf: I say this knowing _several_ people who have >1,000 core environments
18:06 < octet> I dont want it to boot in Legacy mode. Also would dd work with a win10 iso?
18:06 < giaco> NUMA node(s): 2   NUMA node0 CPU(s):   0-9    NUMA node1 CPU(s):   10-19
18:06 < rendolf> Dagmar: sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you meant the thing /I/ did with D[_]. I'm with you on the other thing.
18:07 < ananke> giaco: pastebin the result. I wonder if it is in fact uv300
18:07 < MrElendig> octet: so just don't boot with legacy mode enabled
18:07 < rendolf> Dagmar: it's fascinating how people just stick with horrible solutions even if you point out the insanity in it
18:08 < ananke> rendolf: there is no 'horrible solution' here, despite Dagmar's attempt to paint it that way
18:08 < MrElendig> octet: for windows you make a partition and then copy the content of the iso using cp
18:08 < MrElendig> octet: beause ms is insane
18:08 < Dagmar> rendolf: Hence why the word "consultant" enters the picture.  Per-hour costs are the only thing that I know of that will rein in insane plans
18:08 < MrElendig> because*
18:08 < MrElendig> or you just buy windows on a usb stick
18:08 < Dagmar> ananke: I didn't say anything about "horrible".  I said it would be complex and at this point I don't think what he's attempting makes any sense
18:08 < MrElendig> +in the first place
18:08 < octet> ok, I will try dd with debian first
18:09 < MrElendig> soon legacy mode will be no more btw
18:09 < ananke> Dagmar: it makes perfect sense in his context, which is as a researcher with access to a centrally managed resource. I'm familiar with his scenario to recognize that
18:09 < octet> I hope so
18:10 < giaco> ananke: https://gist.github.com/arkanoid87/751cc29426877cf9a24acb164819dc17
18:10 < ananke> giaco: there are no 400 cores there, only 20 :)
18:11 < section1> lol
18:11 < jack_rip_vim> ananke: the amazing machine
18:12 < ananke> well, at least those are haswell processors.
18:12 < giaco> ananke: 20 cpus, Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2650 v3 has 10 cores, 20 threads. So is 20 * 10 * 2 concurrent flows
18:12 < section1> hehe
18:12 < giaco> 20 cpu, 200 cores, 400 threads
18:12 < section1> no
18:13 < V7> section1: Yes, I'm sure
18:13 < section1> 1 cpu , 10 cores ,20 threads
18:13 < V7> Just checked with df -T
18:13 < ananke> giaco: uhmm, nope. that's 2 threads _per core_. 20 total per socket
18:13 < jack_rip_vim> giaco, good calculator
18:13 < V7> Oh. No. It's fuseblk
18:14 < ananke> giaco: not to mention, hyperthreading is currently disabled. so you don't even get 40 threads, only 20
18:14 < rendolf> do you usually get into a mess when you do consultant jobs? Weird configuration files everywhere, files missing, inconsistency and so forth?
18:14 < ananke> giaco: hate to give you bad news. all you have there is an average two socket server
18:14 < section1> V7, ok ...i ask because when you create a dir and du -b dir in xfs gives you 0 ...but int ext* gives you 4096.
18:14 < MrElendig> buy a bunch of csx700's
18:14 < section1> V7, ahhh
18:14 < MrElendig> 196 cores per processor
18:15 < MrElendig> old as dirt though
18:16 < giaco> ananke: you are right. Why the hell linux counts cores as CPUs
18:16 < ananke> giaco: here's something closer to a '400 core' system (albeit it's only 216 actual cores: http://dpaste.com/3G4NZZT
18:16 < ananke> giaco: because a core is a cpu
18:16 < MrElendig> if you go to academics, look up the kilocore
18:16 < jack_rip_vim> recently, Intel CPU has another 8 Archite BUG
18:16 < MrElendig> literally has 1000 cores
18:17 < ayecee> reminds me of how someone said they'd rather pull a plow with two strong oxen rather than a thousand chickens
18:18 < giaco> btw you are right. It is not a supercomputer, it is just a dual xeon. Wow, that sucks
18:18 < ananke> giaco: and like I mentioned earlier: hyperthreading is disabled on your system. you may want to talk to your admins about it, if you expected to have that available
18:19 < giaco> ananke: will it improve the overall performance considering that I will spawn 1 process per cpu/core?
18:19 < ayecee> ah neat, ubuntu 18.04 defaults to using a swap file rather than swap partition.
18:19 < MrElendig> ht may improve performance or it may degrade it, or do nothing, depends entierly on the work you are doing
18:20 < MrElendig> in most cases it is beneficial
18:20 < ananke> giaco: it may improve it slightly, if you stick to only _20_ total processes. if you attempt to do more than that you'll end up doing more context switching than work
18:20 < SuperSeriousCat> Is there any difference using file vs partition other than it is a lot easier to change a file's size?
18:21 < MrElendig> can't use a swapfile on btrfs
18:21 < MrElendig> performance may be slighly lower not that it matters
18:21 < ananke> SuperSeriousCat: for what?
18:21 < MrElendig> some gotcahs if doing fde
18:22 < toothe> STIG'ing this machine is really complicated.
18:22 < toothe> I'm learing so much about this system.
18:22 < giaco> ananke: considering the fact that this machine is shared and there are already running processes that takes 2000% cpu, I would add more context switching. Would HT be beneficial here?
18:23 < royal_screwup21> how do I increase my terminal size to its previous value? I accidentally pressed a few which resulted in the termianal shrinking
18:23 < royal_screwup21> few keys*
18:23 < MrElendig> define "terminal"
18:23 < ananke> giaco: like MrElendig mentioned, it depends. in HPC realm HT is often disabled, because it causes problems to deal with proper accounting & allocation. frankly, you're not going to get much use out of that system if it's already running full tilt (2000% = 20 cores at 100%)
18:23 < royal_screwup21> MrElendig: command line, linux ubuntu
18:24 < MrElendig> actual tty?
18:24 < giaco> ananke: that is what I am seeing now using top. I just had this login and I have no idea if the running process is going to stay or leave
18:24 < royal_screwup21> ah no worries, figured it out
18:24 < MrElendig> giaco: dumpsterdive a few machines and set up your own cluser
18:24 < MrElendig> cluster*
18:24 < rendolf> can you get fired for being too professional and like 0% inpersonal?
18:25 < ayecee> sure
18:25 < MrElendig> usually not hard to find used hardware at universities
18:25 < uplime> people get fired for all sorts of reasons
18:25 < rendolf> hard to find a balance. I'm usually very personal, but get med with too much professionalism. I'd love to just do the same since that'd suite me perfectly.
18:26 < rendolf> met*
18:26 < MrElendig> rendolf: depends on the country
18:26 < SuperSeriousCat> Must be strange to live in a place without unions. Here it is almost impossible to fire people unless they fuck up a few times
18:26 < MrElendig> rendolf: in sane ones: no
18:26 < uplime> and the company
18:26 < ananke> hardware is not hard to find. finding a place to run said hardware is not easy
18:27 < MrElendig> sometimes varies even within the same country *coughUSAcough*
18:27 < MrElendig> ananke: that's what moms with basements are for
18:27 < jack_rip_vim> :
18:27 < rendolf> some people just don't like me and I don't understand what I've done wrong. They're very "professional" with me
18:28 < MrElendig> quite normal
18:29 < rendolf> doing the same back should be enough then? that won't develop anything between us though, we'll just be what I consider is coldness towards each other
18:29 < rendolf> some of it is based on my looks, I'm objectively ugly :)
18:29 < rendolf> don't really feel like dressing up but I don't blame them either
18:30 < rendolf> seems to be less of a problem in the tech world though but more so in the business world where you're the only IT guy
18:31 < rendolf> you'll be walking around with a computer among CEOs and well dressed social people. Good luck getting anything more than a fake smile regardless of how nice and genuine you're yourself
18:31 < giaco> btw, thank you for all your help
18:32 < ananke> rendolf: what in the world are you going on about? and how is this of relevance to this channel?
18:32 < rendolf> ananke: the life of someone who's working with linux
18:32 < jack_rip_vim> hmm
18:33 < qrvpzvb> For a while, I read "gunzip" as "gunship" with a German accent
18:33 < ananke> rendolf: that has nothing to do specifically with linux. mind as well complain in '#glassmaking', because you work in a building with windows
18:34 < rendolf> ##windows?
18:34 < ananke> giaco: does your institution provide access to other resources? sharing a single server is hardly productive
18:36 < T-Rog> are there any FOSS epub builders?
18:36 < section1>  
18:36 < section1> ops
18:37 < giaco> ananke: I have two of these machines with a shared home (that's why I am pointing to build an environment with a package manager). I also do not know how many other users have access to the system and if the process I actually see dominating top is going to stay. First things first, I need to let the admin know that I know how to process data, then after gaining some confidence I will ask the admin for something specific if need
18:37 < giaco> ed
18:37 < bls> T-Rog: pandoc?
18:38 < ananke> giaco: do you know what OS is running on those? cat /etc/*release /etc/*version
18:38 < T-Rog> bls: how about building from scratch
18:38 < bls> T-Rog: not sure I undertand
18:38 < bls> understand
18:38 < giaco> ananke: cat /etc/redhat-release says CentOS Linux release 7.2.1511 (Core)
18:39 < ananke> giaco: ouch. so an out-of-date centos. that makes me a bit discouraged about your admins
18:40 < T-Rog> bls: never mind
18:40 < T-Rog> pandoc appears to fit my needs
18:40 < T-Rog> thank you
18:40 < jack_rip_vim> gonna out for a break, see your guys later!
18:40 < bls> pandoc can convert preexisting documents *or* document sources
18:40 < Armand> ananke: I don't see "CentOS 5.11" anywhere...
18:40 < jack_rip_vim> bye!
18:40 < ananke> Armand: I said 'out-of-date' not 'archaic'
18:41 < Armand> 7.2 isn't....
18:41 < Armand> You should know better!! lol
18:41 < ananke> Armand: it is, considering 7.4 has been out for a long time
18:42 < ananke> and since going between minor releases on centos is trivial, lack of those updates on a single server system make me question practices involved
18:42 < Armand> Yeah, but it's not always safe to just whip out updates. :P
18:42 < bls> more so than the fact that someone is having to ask us how to operate their HPC machine?
18:43 < ananke> Armand: I'd buy that excuse if it was a complex setup involving multiple systems
18:43 < Armand> I actually decomm'd my Cent7 server today. :(
18:43 < Armand> ananke: Granted.
18:43 < ananke> bls: this is hardly an HPC machine, just one server. and he's a consumer, not owner/admin
18:44 < bls> ah, missed the bit where it was misrepresented
18:44 < ananke> bls: he did clarify his role; however, he was also confused by what the actual hardware was
18:49 < giaco> ananke: yes, I have been confused by the mail the admin sent me. He told me that the machine was 20 cpu. To me cpu != core, but still, my fault
18:50 < ananke> giaco: hence 'lscpu' was suggested, as means to finding facts
18:51 < giaco> if you are wandering if I would make money out of your hints, the answer is not. I am a researcher. I just had an access to a more powerful machine that a core2duo I have in office
18:51 < ananke> giaco: I'm not accusing you of that, because I'm very familiar with your situation.
18:52 < giaco> ty
18:57 < Bru-> morn
18:57 < T-Rog> bls: I don't think pdf is a supported input format
18:58 < bls> T-Rog: ah, though it was. may need calibre for that then
18:59 < bls> that or the PDF can't use any proprietary adobe extensions
19:00 < Bru-> having issues with Linux and realtek audio
19:00 < Psi-Jack> Who isn't? Realtek audio is not that great. heh
19:01 < Bru-> haha
19:01 < Bru-> ive been reading that the latest realtek drivers are deprecated on the latest kernels
19:01 < Bru-> its just a simple alc269VB
19:02 < Bru-> cant seem to shake the no audio though
19:02 < Bru-> even with messing with the alsa-base.conf
19:02 < qrvpzvb> I seem to remember a little utility that can monitor the standard unix tools for io
19:03 < qrvpzvb> like, I can start a "cp" and then monitor its bandwidth
19:04 < bls> qrvpzvb: iotop?
19:05 < qrvpzvb> bls: not what I had in mind, but it's ok since my "dd" just finished
19:06 < bls> if you want to instrument/monitor individual commands, there's also pv
19:06 < qrvpzvb> but you'll need to remember to use it
19:07 < bls> ...or wrap your relevant commands in aliases/functions
19:08 < Hathadar> I have a headless box that has been unpowered for four months.  I am wanting to make use of it now but have forgotten it's ip/hostname.  How may I find it?  I am running a /24
19:09 < bls> Hathadar: check your DHCP servers lease file, nmap
19:09 < bls> or maybe the arp table on the gateway
19:10 < SuperSeriousCat> nmap -sP 192.168.1.1/24. Change IP if needed
19:10 < Hathadar> thanks
19:14 < T-Rog> Well my conversion is completely broken
19:14 < Matt|home> yo. alright, dumb questions. 1) if i have windows pre-installed on a laptop i just bought, is it still possible to install another OS and dualboot ?
19:15 < T-Rog> calibre really let me down
19:15 < Sitri> Matt|home: you're better off with virtualization, but you can resize the partition (don't ask me how) if you absolutely want to.
19:16 < Matt|home> Sitri - running the OS in a VM?
19:17 < Matt|home> alright
19:17 < Sitri> Yes
19:18 < T-Rog> bls: If my conversion turned out completely broken and trash, should I just do it by hand?
19:19 < T-Rog> The biggest problem I see is that my pdf is in three-column format
19:20 < octet> I dont know if this applies, but this is what I use to convert EPUB to pDF: https://maxrohde.com/2015/01/28/rendering-beautiful-pdf-documents-with-calibre/
19:20 < T-Rog> I'm trying to convert from pdf to epub
19:21 < Dagmar> That's just going to be a mess
19:21 < T-Rog> I can tell
19:21 < bls> T-Rog: ah, that sucks. PDF is really meant to be view/print only.
19:21 < Dagmar> epub is basically a zip file with HTML inside
19:21 < Dagmar> PDFs can contain just about bloody everything
19:22 < T-Rog> and I'm trying to convert a D&D module. I want it in epub because I hate having to use the "pan mode" of my ereader to navigate over a page during a game
19:22 < Dagmar> ...up to and including bizarrely packed font files
19:22 < Dagmar> Convert it to a big image using imagemagick
19:22 < bls> ...and javascript and hyperlinks and ...
19:23 < bls> tried pdf2text? you'll lose the formatting but will at least have the text
19:23 < Matt|home> im not overly familiar with virtualization.. the last time i tried it using something called vmware i believe, and my computer wasn't able to handle it. apparently 500mhz was too slow ;P so in terms of virtualization, i can install and run any supported OS? do i have to install it each time i open up the VM session?
19:23 < T-Rog> I can look into it
19:23 < T-Rog> but if Calibre is getting tripped up over the 3 column format I expect pdf2text will too
19:23 < T-Rog> I don't know how the digitized module was created but I'm guessing it was OCR, so no javascript or hyperlinks
19:23 < fareast> I am going for a disto
19:24 < fareast> kubuntu or lubuntu
19:24 < T-Rog> Dagmar: I learned what epubs are when I downloaded a bunch of epubs from an open directory and some of them contained minor text errors
19:24 < fareast> its a 1366x768 laptop sandybridge
19:24 < Psi-Jack> fareast: So, do it.
19:24 < T-Rog> epub -> zip -> modify html
19:24 < fareast> is battery life really that much more significant in lubuntu?
19:24 < Psi-Jack> Try it and see.
19:24 < dgurney> I doubt it'll be a significant difference
19:25 < fareast> thanks dgurney
19:25 < fareast> I think I am just going to kubuntu I am using budgie but its like trying to use something completely different
19:26 < T-Rog> Can epubs contain tables?
19:26 < Dagmar> They can contain HTML
19:26 < T-Rog> and I only know C, Java, and Python
19:26 < T-Rog> this is gonna suck
19:27 < Dagmar> Well, HTML has had the <TABLE> tag since just about forever
19:27 < fareast> as far as kde I have choices kde neon, regular plasma kde and kubuntu..
19:27 < T-Rog> yeah well the problem is I've only ever written a really crappy html page in notepad back in high school
19:27 < bls> T-Rog: for the tables, there's another tool you may be able to use
19:27 < T-Rog> and never touched it again
19:27 < fareast> so I think kde neon or kubuntu.
19:27 < bls> T-Rog: tabula
19:28 < fareast> they are both the same right neon is just more nightly distro right?
19:28 < Aph3x-WL> fareast: fedora has the best plasma experience i've seen on any distro
19:28 < T-Rog> you would think there would be software that assists me in building an epub from scratch
19:28 < Dagmar> It sounds like perhaps you'd be better served by using a tool that can take apart the PDF so you can extract the images, and then rebuild the thing with OpenOffice or something
19:28 < fareast> that is what linus uses
19:28 < Dagmar> OO can export HTML
19:29 < bls> T-Rog: you're not building an epub from scratch though
19:29 < berndj> is there a way to (easily) get the number of processes that are ready for the cpu? something like loadavg minus processes in the 'D' state?
19:29 < fareast> I hate when things get out of orientation that is one thing I can't stand about a distro
19:29 < dgurney> however, the fedora kde default install is rather bloated when I last checked
19:29 < T-Rog> yes I am
19:29 < Dagmar> berndj: Define "ready"
19:29 < bls> T-Rog: you're trying to generate an epub from a purposfully obscured document format
19:29 < T-Rog> I am starting the fuck over
19:29 < fareast> I want snappyness and organization
19:29 < T-Rog> bls: Not anymore
19:29 < SporkWitch> T-Rog: multicolumn pdf isn't supported by calibre per the documentation.  You might be better of using a different reader.  I specifically bought a chromebook for uni, because it was much better for displaying large pdfs
19:29 < T-Rog> I'm going to do it by hand
19:29 < bls> T-Rog: then you can use markdown, orgmode, latex, html, etc
19:29 < SporkWitch> T-Rog: you can find good ones for as little as 100 bucks
19:29 < berndj> Dagmar: either already running on a cpu or ready to run on one. not waiting for IO, whether explicit or swap
19:29 < Dagmar> bls: It's not "purposefully obscured".  It's just meant to be a completely static format
19:30 < fareast> how is fedora supporting hardware
19:30 < dgurney> Fedora is very good at that fareast
19:30 < bls> Dagmar: was referring to the DRM
19:30 < fareast> I have an atheros card I dropped in this dell inspiron which has an intel hd 3000
19:30 < Dagmar> berndj: If it's "running" then it's going to count towards load, just as much as if it were waiting on IO
19:30 < Dagmar> bls: DRM is entirely optional and very few people use it
19:30 < berndj> Dagmar, i want to exclude processes that are waiting on IO
19:30 < rendolf> ananke: are you from Texas?
19:31 < Dagmar> It's also generally somewhat trivial to break unless someone's bought an obfuscator, but obfuscators raise the chance that the document won't render properly
19:31 < berndj> Dagmar, counting processes that are waiting on IO doesn't tell me anything about how "oversubscribed" the cpu is
19:31 < Aph3x-WL> dgurney: not sure what you mean by bloated but it wasn't bloated when i installed 27, just came with the basics mostly
19:31 < fareast> I sacrificed an hp envy for this old machine simply cause I can do network admin work from it without breaking out a usb ethernet adapter or external cdrom
19:31 < Dagmar> berndj: Being that this wait may be caused by reading files from the disk, yes it does
19:31 < berndj> Dagmar, reading files (when in 'D' state) is not cpu-dependent
19:32 < berndj> imagine the file is on a floppy disk - you could have 1000 processes waiting for that IO and still have idle cpu time
19:32 < Dagmar> Yes, and you can _see_ that the CPU is idle
19:32 < berndj> i don't want to see whether the cpu is idle, i want to see how many processes want to run on it _immediately_
19:33 < Dagmar> What you're asking for doesn't actually make as much sense as you think it does, but you're perfectly welcome to scrape proc for the information you're looking for
19:33 < Dagmar> The answer to that question is "all of them"
19:33 < berndj> yeah, i was hoping for something "easier"
19:33 < berndj> no, bollocks
19:33 < Dagmar> If they've got work remaining to do, they'll be waiting for CPU time and they'll add 1 to the load counter
19:33 < berndj> a process waiting for some interrupt from a network card or disk controller does not want to run on the cpu immediately
19:33 < berndj> there's nothing for it to do until that interrupt arrives
19:34 < Dagmar> ...and if you stack 1,000 of those _you will have performance issues_
19:34 < Dagmar> This is why we look at _load_ rather than just CPU utilization
19:34 < berndj> performance issues deriving from lack of IO, not derived from lack of CPU
19:35 < Dagmar> ...and user processes don't wait on interrupts from hardware.
19:35 < berndj> i will care about overall load (specifically IO load) independently. basically i want to know up to how many cpu cores it would help the system's performance to add
19:35 < Dagmar> The kernel waits on those, or things would turn nightmarish from context switching
19:35 < berndj> of course they wait on interrupts
19:35 < SporkWitch> berndj: as explained, the query is nonsensensical.  all running processes want to run immediately.  Even if they're waiting on I/O, they still need cycles to CHECK that to see if they can move forward.
19:35 < berndj> yes, in kernel space. it's still a user process
19:35 < Dagmar> Adding CPU cores isn't going to help IO
19:35 < berndj> gah
19:36 < berndj> Dagmar, stop telling me what i want to know, please
19:36 < berndj> as in, stop telling me what my question should be according to you
19:36 < Dagmar> Okay.  Eventually you're going to see we're telling you the truth.
19:36 < berndj> i do want an answer to *my* question
19:36 < Dagmar> Remember, you came here to ask this question to find _experts_ and you have found _experts_
19:36 < SporkWitch> you've gotten the answer to that
19:36 < berndj> SporkWitch, we're obviously talking past each other
19:37 < berndj> i have not obviously found experts
19:37 < berndj> i have found people who think they know better than i what i want to know
19:37 < Dagmar> No, you've found that you may have a DK problem
19:37 < bls> maybe ##hardware will tell you what you want to hear then
19:37 < SporkWitch> berndj: admittedly i came in late, but i do not believe so.  The reason why has been explained.  Contrary to what your third-grade teacher told you, there is such a thing as a bad question.
19:38 < Dagmar> I regularly deal with machines that have 10Gb fiberchannel
19:38 < Dagmar> The CPU is always still *wildly* faster than even that bus
19:38 < ayecee> i also have internet credentials
19:38 < Dagmar> There's never a time when adding more CPUs is going to make that throughput happen any faster
19:38 < dgurney> there are very few completely stupid questions, but bad questions are indeed a thing
19:39 < schaeferpp_> my system says it ran out of inotify watches (inotify_add_watch(... IN_MODIFY) returns -1, errno set to ENOSPC). `sysctl -a` states that my system should support up to 8192 inotify watches (user.max_inotify_watches = 8192, fs.inotify_max_user_watches = 8192) Running `sudo lsof | grep -i inotify | wc -l` just returns 1288 and 1288 < 8192. So what's the point?
19:39 < berndj> Dagmar, how do you even know that i have a througput problem? you're just assuming this
19:39 < Dagmar> berndj: Becuase you implied that it was even possible
19:39 < berndj> maybe i do, but this is why i want to separate the numbers
19:39 < Dagmar> that's unlikely, but again, you're welcome to scrape proc
19:39 < SporkWitch> schaeferpp_: i'd have to check the documentation, but is the max PER user, or max total across users?
19:40 < bls> and do cgroups have a slot for inotify watch count?
19:40 < schaeferpp_> it's my laptop and i ran lsof with sudo. so 1288 should be an overall value I think
19:40 < schaeferpp_> ^ @SporkWitch
19:41 < SporkWitch> schaeferpp_: this isn't twitter; prepending characters breaks highlights
19:41 < berndj> that's client-dependent
19:41 < schaeferpp_> just wanted to say that
19:42 < SporkWitch> berndj: and most clients default to the IRC standard, rather than twitter twits
19:42 < berndj> @ is not a valid character in irc nicknames, iirc
19:42 < bls> @nick implies the person is an op
19:42 < SporkWitch> ^
19:42 < berndj> so any client failing to highlight on a @-prefixed nickname is arguably buggy
19:42 < revel> Probably since a lot of clients imply op, yeah.
19:42 < revel> Well. Or it could be the other way around.
19:42 < schaeferpp_> thats correct, I didn't think of that
19:43 < revel> Dunno.
19:43 < berndj> @ is not part of the nickname though
19:43 < SporkWitch> berndj: not at all; the @ in an op is not part of the nick, not breaking highlights.  prefixing it with @ indicates it's NOT a nickname, and logically shouldn't highlight
19:43 < SporkWitch> regardless, we're not on twitter, respect IRC conventions
19:44 < berndj> well there's no formal grammar for privmsg content, besides the basics like "mustn't contain NL", so parsing it into nicks and whatnot is entirely convention-driven
19:44 < berndj> my client has no problem with the @ fwiw
19:45 < berndj> damn you lot lol, now i'm writing a program to scrape /proc
19:45 < neoncortex> I went on twitter once when researching, but it's so insignificant that I don't even paid attention .. I discovered I have visited it because browsser history
19:45 < light2yellow> what program whould I use to monitor cpu load, gpu load, fps, and be able to show in the the corner over the full-screen applications (I use X server if it matters)
19:45 < SporkWitch> oh i could write an override for any number of inane ways people modify a nick when they're trying to talk to someone, there's just no good reason to do so.  When I go on twitter I'll adapt to their conventions; you're on IRC, follow the IRC conventions, and that means just the name, no extra characters prepended, only colon, space, full-stop, or comma appended
19:45 < berndj> what does annoy me is when people paste links in a way that make them unhighlightable
19:46 < SporkWitch> light2yellow: don't know of any CLI tools that do all together, but your DE probably has widgets for it
19:46 < lupine> full stop? I disapprove
19:46 < light2yellow> SporkWitch: I doubt Plasma widgets work over full-screen applications
19:46 < bls> light2yellow: looked at conki?
19:46 < Psi-Jack> berndj: I don't even bother trying with those.
19:46 < bls> or whatever that eyecandy/monitor tool is called
19:47 < light2yellow> bls: no. can it show info over the full-screen game?
19:47 < SporkWitch> light2yellow: plasma has a widget dashboard you can map to a hotkey, it overlays the widgets over the screen regardless of what's on it.  "fullscreen" apps aren't _really_ full-screen, they're just borderless and take up the whole screen.
19:47 < bls> don't know, never used it
19:47 < berndj> my anti-favourite is things like wiki links that end in Foo_(film) instead of Foo_%28film%29 (although the former is more human-friendly)
19:47 < bls> ah, conky
19:48 < light2yellow> SporkWitch: thanks, I'll investigate in that direction then
19:49 < SporkWitch> light2yellow: for framerate you'll probably need to depend on the application itself, since the application's framerate can differ
19:49 < Bru-> damn sound
19:49 < Bru-> so frustrating
19:49 < streiu> How do I separate tty in two frames: the tux logo and the commandline?
19:49 < Bru-> i get great sound from headphone jack
19:49 < Bru-> but nothing from built-in speakers
19:50 < SporkWitch> Bru-: newlines are not a substitute for punctuation.  To your query, check alsamixer
19:50 < Bru-> noted! sorry about that
19:51 < Bru-> channels are unmuted and levels are up. ive tried using a number of different configs in alsa-base.conf with options snd-hda-intel model=xxxx, to no avail. ive seen a couple of posts regarding realteks actual drivers not working well with modern kernels. Im on 4.15.0-15
19:51 < hexnewbie> Bru-: If using PulseAudio, you may try pavucontrol and switch to non-headphone profile (should do that automatically when headphones are plugged in, but check it anyway). Additionally, pavucontrol remembers the volume for different profiles, so if you mute it with built-in speakers it may stay muted even if you unmute it for headphones (that's a life saver if you're using your laptop in the classroom)
19:52 < streiu> How do I separate tty in two frames: the tux logo on the very top and the commandline below it?
19:52 < light2yellow> SporkWitch: also, iiuc "fullscreen" and "windowed borderless" are different things. for example, for the former kwin disables compositing, for the latter it wouldn't
19:52 < light2yellow> (and you want compositing disabled for games, but not for the browser, for example)
19:53 < bls> streiu: start looking into fbcon
19:53 < SporkWitch> light2yellow: in windows they are, in KDE there's no difference i've been able to identify; you can happily move your mouse over to the second screen without the fullscreen application disappearing.  The reason for disabling compositing for games is to reduce performance overhead, leaving more resources for the game
19:54 < bls> streiu: it's what's used for all the splash screens/eyecandy at boot and may be able to do what you're asking
19:55 < streiu> Thank you bls
19:55 < fShanX> Hello
19:55 < Bru-> hexnewbie: so far no luck. last time i tried compiling and installing the realtek drivers, it was unable to detect any audio hardware following that
19:56 < Bru-> needless to say, im a bit of a linux newb
19:56 < bls> streiu: yaft and fbterm look like things built on top of it
19:56 < light2yellow> SporkWitch: I understand that. Just saying these are not the same, making a case with kwin, which I know does the above (disables comp. for applications identified as full-screen and does not disable it for, say, browser, which goes into window-borderless mode upon pressing F11), so, window managers, at least some, make it different
19:56  * fShanX is lazy and didn't do a backup before using the Fedora system updater to upgrade to Fedora 28. Since he has a separate /home partition, there should be no risk of personal data loss, right?
19:57 < hexnewbie> Bru-: Installing and compiling drivers is something that you almost never have to do, with the exception of proprietary graphics drivers, bleeding edge hardware and obscure devices, like certain chips found in IoT hardware.
19:58 < Bru-> hexnewbie: That's what I figured. All I have is an intel card with the realtek alc269vb chipset. seems pretty standard and I figured would be supported without much configuration
19:58 < SuperSeriousCat> Many like to backup config files too fShanX
19:59 < fShanX> SuperSeriousCat: I don't have a backup of anything is what I'm saying
19:59 < SuperSeriousCat> Know. Thats why you should backup some confi files if you altered a lot in /etc
20:00 < SuperSeriousCat> Most users wont need to
20:00 < fShanX> I altered nothing in /etc
20:00 < hexnewbie> Bru-: On top of that, pulseaudio ought to handle the configuration out of the box (visible from pavucontrol). If it doesn't, alsamixer lets you touch all the knobs of the card - one (or a combination of several) *should* make your built-in speakers play the sound
20:01 < Bru-> hexnewbie: During playback, pavucontrol is detecting sound as I have music in the background, but nothing ends up coming out of the speakers though.
20:02 < hexnewbie> Bru-: Go to the configuration tab and try different profiles
20:02 < Bru-> hexnewbie: I have already, but no change in result. Have been battling it for a few days.
20:04 < hexnewbie> Bru-: Have you verified that the speakers actually play? Like, on Windows or something?
20:04 < SporkWitch> light2yellow: hit f11; puts firefox into fullscreen mode and doesn't trigger disabling the compositor
20:04 < neoncortex> Bru-: do you have a /etc/asound.conf?
20:04 < light2yellow> SporkWitch: that's exactly what I wrote
20:05 < SporkWitch> light2yellow: it contradicts what you just said...
20:05 < SporkWitch> light2yellow: f11 in firefox is, in fact, fullscreen
20:06 < light2yellow> SporkWitch: then I might be missing something. okay, anyway
20:06 < Bru-> son of a
20:06 < SporkWitch> light2yellow: borderlands 2 via steam (native) doesn't disable it either, basically anything in WINE.  opentyrian does seem to mess with things a bit, but it seems to be an exception, not the rule.
20:07 < Bru-> hexnewbie: i thought I had when i decommed these devices, but the damn speaker itself is busted
20:07 < Bru-> Sorry for the idiocy from my end! the speakers themselves were the problem. thank you very much for your help though
20:07 < hipp> my compositor toggles with <shift>+<ctrl>+<f12>
20:09 < hipp> correction ... my compositor toggles with <shift> + <alt> + <f12>
20:10 < neoncortex> I'm curious, KDE still can't do chain keybindings, ike emacs?
20:10 < neoncortex> #like
20:11 < neoncortex> or, to be more in the same zone, like i3
20:12 < sauvin> Bru-, been there, done that. Welcome to the club.
20:13 < Bru-> sauvin: thanks man! ive got piles of these devices, and i thought id gotten a bootup music with windows before i nuked it
20:13 < Bru-> so i thought nothing of it
20:13 < catphish> does anyone here happen to know the iscsi protocol in detail, i have some questions, the first of which is: how is thee length of the body of a scsi command (the data titled SCSI CDB inquiry in this capture) determined? i can't seem to work out how to determine how much data to read - https://i.imgur.com/7C8lIGU.png
20:16 < catphish> oh, never mind, found it, it's part of the fixed length iscsi header
20:17 < coco> is there an easy way to once every 2 weeks connect, check into a channel, then disconnect? there's probably a script/one line command somewhere... i would appreciate the help
20:18 < coco> i am a linux newbie and don't understand chron and stuff like that very well
20:19 < koala_man> coco: an IRC channel?
20:23 < rcvu> Hey not totally linux related but
20:24 < rcvu> Does anyone know how to download an open mailing list off of gmane or by signing up to it?
20:24 < polos> how can I see what IPs my server had in the past? which log files?
20:24 < SporkWitch> don't think that's logged?
20:25 < polos> what about network interface logs?
20:25 < bls> you might be able to check the lease log on the DHCP server
20:25 < bls> what network interface logs?
20:25 < Raed> polos: If it has a DNS name, there are websites that will show the address history of the DNS name
20:27 < polos> thanks, what about something that would log the IP as a side effect or by accident?
20:28 < catphish> coco: first you'll need to find a command like irc client that can be scripted in that manner
20:28 < SporkWitch> catphish: i think this is probably one of those questions that warrants a "why"
20:28 < catphish> polos: i doubt that would be logged
20:29 < delt> Hello
20:30 < catphish> SporkWitch: i was going to ask why, irc is rarely a good protocol for such things, but then again, if that's what they want to do, sure :)
20:30 < SporkWitch> catphish: the why is good because XY problems are ubiquitous
20:30 < delt> is there some kind of pulseaudio wrapper that reverses left/right channels for a program that doesn't map them right, and doesn't have such a setting within its ui?
20:31 < catphish> SporkWitch: too often i ask a technical question, and just get people say "you have an xy problem" and refuse to answer a simple question, it's rude and unnecessary
20:31 < SporkWitch> catphish: either the question was malformed or they're idiots
20:31 < catphish> SporkWitch: so these days i try to assume the asker has a good reason, and if not, they can learn why not :)
20:32 < delt> in this case, ioquake3 .....i was pretty good at q3a many years ago, and decided to play through it for old time's sake. but the left/right channels are reversed >:(
20:32 < catphish> SporkWitch: no, the questiokn was peerfectly formed, they want to know how to automate connecting briefly to an irc channel at intervals
20:32 < SporkWitch> catphish: never assume they have good reason; if they're asking something really weird or niche, ask why.  If you're competent you'll be able to identify a better solution or that the solution makes sense for the use-case.
20:33 < catphish> an unusual requirement, but a perfectly well stated one
20:33 < SporkWitch> catphish: i was referring to those coming out with the useless "it's an xy problem" without explaining anything or looking to clarify the end-goal
20:33 < acetakwas> I ran the following on an Ubuntu server: iptables -D INPUT -j DROP -s [THE_IP}
20:33 < acetakwas> But got: iptables: Bad rule (does a matching rule exist in that chain?).
20:33 < acetakwas> What could be wrong?
20:34 < SporkWitch> acetakwas: it's a malformed rule
20:34 < koala_man> delt: you can certainly configure pulseaudio to do this, but I don't know if there's a simple ad-hoc wrapper for it
20:34 < catphish> coco: SporkWitch is right though, your requirement is unusual, you may get more assistance if you also state your goal
20:34 < acetakwas> SporkWitch::  How so?
20:34 < koala_man> if it's just for a few minutes of fun, put on headphones backwards :P
20:34 < SporkWitch> acetakwas: use your punctuation instead of the enter key, and read the documentation for iptables.  You can also find many examples by searching "iptables examples"
20:34 < catphish> normall IRC connections are persistent
20:35 < catphish> *normally
20:35 < SporkWitch> acetakwas: arguments after -j [action] aren't valid
20:35 < acetakwas> SporkWitch::  I have used the same command previously to block the same IP.
20:36 < acetakwas> I have subsequently unblocked same
20:36 < acetakwas> Now I need to block it again, but I get this error.
20:36 < SporkWitch> acetakwas: -D deletes a rule, and your rule is malformed
20:36 < SporkWitch> acetakwas: man iptables
20:37 < SporkWitch> acetakwas: as an aside, why are you needing to manually block specific IPs?  there are tools to automate such things, such as fail2ban, depending on the reason for blocking.
20:37 < acetakwas> SporkWitch::  Okay. I get you.
20:38 < acetakwas> SporkWitch::  I'll look into automating with tools. Thanks.
20:38 < catphish> acetakwas: -D is delete, and -j DROP should be at the end, to add a new rule: iptables -I INPUT -s [THE_IP} -j DROP
20:38 < SporkWitch> catphish: stop handing out free fish
20:38 < Psilocyber> When using ethtool, will it show correct link status when using SFP+ 10G? I have my SFP+ cable plugged in but not getting any link status.
20:38 < catphish> SporkWitch: give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, everyone wins!
20:39 < SporkWitch> catphish: that's the problem, he eats for a day, then expects you to keep providing fish every day after.  It's like feeding strays.  Teach him to fish and the support overhead goes down over time, because they've gained the tools to help themselves.
20:39 < SporkWitch> if someone wants me to hand them copypasta to solve their problem, they can pay me
20:40 < acetakwas> SporkWitch, catphish: There's nothing pointing out someone's error.
20:40 < catphish> lol, at least it came with a (brief) explanation
20:40 < acetakwas> SporkWitch::  I had previously learned about the IP blocking command in this same channel; and even the one for unblocking.
20:40 < acetakwas> I made a mistake in re-using it. All you needed to do was point it out.
20:41 < catphish> seems like you just muddled the 2 :)
20:41 < acetakwas> So I see nothing wrong with what catphish said.
20:41 < acetakwas> catphish::  Exactly. :)_
20:41 < SporkWitch> acetakwas: i did point that out, as well as resources to figure it out.
20:41 < za1b1tsu> Hello, in terminal when using man or --help, can I get information for a single option? for example I need info only for cat -d
20:42 < acetakwas> SporkWitch::  Right. SO needn't criticise what catphish did.
20:42 < acetakwas> Thanks all.
20:42 < acetakwas> I'm good now.
20:42 < catphish> za1b1tsu: i don't think so, just learn to search the manual fast using /
20:42 < delt> koala_man: how?
20:42 < SporkWitch> acetakwas: also, you should never run a command you don't understand.  even if you find a fix that says "run this" and it's totally legit, you should be checking the documentation to understand what it's doing first
20:42 < za1b1tsu> catphish: cheers
20:42 < acetakwas> SporkWitch::  Right. Like I said I made a mistake (a typo)
20:43 < dr4ken> guys, i want to apply for SysAdmin related stuff for linux, what kind of stuff can i show at the interview, like a portfolio?
20:43 < dr4ken> usually devs does have a great github they can show off
20:43 < SporkWitch> dr4ken: if you have to ask, you don't have anything lol
20:43 < acetakwas> I had gone back in my command history, and stopped at the very first instance of iptables.
20:43 < catphish> za1b1tsu: for example, "man cat" then type "/-d" and it will search for that in the page
20:43 < dr4ken> SporkWitch, indeed, i dot have anything, but i would want to build up
20:43 < acetakwas> I should have gone back earlier in history.
20:43 < koala_man> delt: here's one google hit for "reverse stereo in pulseaudio": https://rudd-o.com/linux-and-free-software/how-to-invert-left-and-right-sound-channels-on-the-fly
20:44 < SporkWitch> acetakwas: that's not a typo, that's faulty logic :P lol.  You said yourself you blocked it, then you unblocked it.  Obviously the first instance would be the unblock, not the block
20:44 < za1b1tsu> catphish: yeap thank you
20:44 < catphish> acetakwas: don't mind the humans here, they can be grouchy :)
20:44 < catphish> za1b1tsu: you're welcome :)
20:44 < SporkWitch> catphish: are you assuming my species?
20:45 < catphish> SporkWitch: yep, and your race
20:45 < SporkWitch> catphish: nazi!
20:45 < rascul> who's racing?
20:45 < Psilocyber> freedom of thought? not in my IRC!
20:45 < dr4ken> so guys, what kind of portfolio a good sysadmin does usually have? code aswell so they can show their dev skills? a github full of long bash/python scripts made for inhouse stuff?
20:46 < Psilocyber> theres a bunch of red hat system administrator tests you can find online, work through those
20:46 < bls> dr4ken: good stories with accurate technical details
20:46 < SporkWitch> Psilocyber: in the words of the late Bill Hicks: you are free to do what we tell you
20:46 < Psilocyber> if you can do it without having to google a bunch of stuff, you might be ready for a job
20:46 < Psilocyber> bill hicks is my personal hero
20:47 < bls> no way, Denis Leary is way funnier
20:47 < Psilocyber> pffft
20:47 < ananke> dr4ken: 'long bash scripts' may not bode well these days. bash isn't the best tool for advanced stuff
20:47 < SporkWitch> bls: they're both great, Hicks was a lot more pointed and political, though
20:47 < dr4ken> bls, ok that's good for the interview, but how can i "translate" that exp. into my CV, i mean, appart from the usual "i worked here from X to Y and make a,b,c"
20:47 < Psilocyber> hes talking about getting a sysadmin job, bash is fine
20:47 < SporkWitch> bls: and some of his stuff really sticks today
20:47 < dr4ken> ananke, i know, but im just making an example
20:47 < ananke> Psilocyber: he's talking about 'show their dev skills'
20:47 < Dagmar> Publish some stuff on github
20:47 < bls> SporkWitch: it was sarcasm. Leary ripped most of his early material off from Hicks
20:48 < ananke> dr4ken: contributions to existing projects are also very important, in addition to having your own stuff
20:48 < SporkWitch> dr4ken: that's actually a good thing to make sure you can demonstrate: knowledge of tools such as puppet/chef/ansible
20:48 < dr4ken> i mentioned "dev skills" ecause these days usually sysadmin positions wants you to be a little bit dev aswell (a.k. devops)
20:48 < Psilocyber> i guess i dont consider cooking up bash scripts to be 'dev' work
20:48 < Psilocyber> its sysadmin work
20:48 < SporkWitch> Psilocyber: seeing as he's asking about sysadmin jobs...
20:48 < bls> dr4ken: I don't open people's github when I get resumes/CVs
20:48 < SporkWitch> bls: i wasn't aware
20:49 < ananke> I'd take an admin who can demonstrate knowledge of concepts of various automation frameworks more than one who can code in bash
20:49 < dr4ken> ananke, ok, perfect, but howe can i demostrate my knowledge in chef in CV, i mean, how can i make it so i get the interview?
20:50 < SporkWitch> dr4ken: "managed X servers utilizing [automation framework]"
20:50 < bls> dr4ken: getting interviews comes down to networking and luck, not gimmicks on your resume
20:50 < Dagmar> If you're thinking someone from HR will view your chef recipes and say "Hey this guy is a pretty good coder", think again.
20:50 < ananke> dr4ken: certainly mention the fact that you are familiar with chef. then highlight some of the major projects/tasks you've done with it
20:50 < Dagmar> Someone from HR will think "Oh wow.  I can't read any of that."
20:50 < SporkWitch> dr4ken: where you explain details is in the technical interview and being able to answer their questions succinctly while demonstrating familiarity
20:51 < Dagmar> You have to use keywords to get past HR and to the technical interview
20:51 < bls> dr4ken: you mainly need the keywords (to get past the HR filters) for the technologies you can confidently talk about (for the phone screen/interview)
20:51 < strixdio> I am migrating weechat from one box to another, but when I connect it tells me
20:51 < dr4ken> bls, in my case i will have 0% networking, i would be in a complete foreign country
20:51 < ananke> getting to an interview is not a result of _one_ thing. resume is as important as networking
20:51 < strixdio> whoops sorry, mistap
20:51 < strixdio> I am migrating weechat from one box to another, but when I connect it tells me "weechat gnutls certificate not trusted" - How do I reset those expected certs?
20:52 < dr4ken> SporkWitch, ty for that headline, that definitely would help
20:52 < ananke> bad resume is also a big issue.
20:52 < strixdio> - "weechat" uugh
20:52 < dr4ken> ananke, what if i just learnt it by myself but not "professional" experience in it?
20:52 < SporkWitch> dr4ken: also, depending on who you ask, active phrasing can be good, e.g. under a previous job description, "manage" instead of "managed"
20:53 < dr4ken> ananke, im pretty aware of that, usually HR mind is : >1 pages = into the trash it goes
20:53 < ananke> dr4ken: that will certainly be easy to deduce during your interview
20:53 < Dagmar> dr4ken: That's where having published projects comes in handy
20:53 < bls> dr4ken: doesn't matter, people can see through "5 years or professional linux experience" where you don't know the first thing about it vs "self taught but knows the system inside and out"
20:53 < dr4ken> bls, im not quite sure HR people would be able to...
20:53 < SporkWitch> my last interview he stopped the linux questions partway through the second because he decided i knew more than him lol
20:54 < catphish> for a system admin job, i would think you want substantial bullet point list of technologies, along with a good explanation of how good you are at applying them
20:54 < dr4ken> ananke, in the technical part i guess yeah pretty much
20:54 < bls> dr4ken: HR people are just mining keywords/buzzwords
20:54 < Dagmar> Sometimes, HR people are well-versed in using Outlook.
20:54 < Dagmar> That's about as technical as they get
20:54 < dr4ken> ok...
20:55 < bls> dr4ken: hiring managers and tech leads are the ones you need to be able to tell stories to prove you used what's on your resume and still know how to use it
20:55 < catphish> it always depends on a company, sometimes qualifications matter more, other times, specific technologies listed matter more, other times the wording of the covering notes matter more, i'd say best to get all 3 of thise things well balanced
20:55 < Dagmar> You could be a barking duck and they wouldn't know the difference, because animal hubandry isn't their speciality
20:55 < ananke> it's HR specific. our HR for example will vet virtually all resumes with the hiring manager
20:55 < dr4ken> anyways, thanks for the tips guys, any final recomendation you could give generally speaking?
20:55 < ananke> dr4ken: don't lie on your resume.
20:55 < catphish> dr4ken: see my general comments ^
20:55 < SporkWitch> dr4ken: don't lie, full-stop
20:55 < Dagmar> Spellcheck your resume
20:56 < SporkWitch> dr4ken: and actually target the damn thing.  Unless you were the general manager, no one gives a damn about your time flipping burgers
20:56 < catphish> yes definitely target
20:56 < SporkWitch> (and even then they probably don't care unless you're going for management)
20:56 < Dagmar> Misspellings demonstrate a lack of attention to detail, which will give the HR people a reason to toss your resume so they have less to read, and technical managers a reason to ignore your resume because typos in scripts cause downtime
20:56 < dr4ken> catphish, yeah well, i just got in my CV, 1 year of exp with linux server and dev junior, half a year as technician and pretty all of them were without any fancy stuff worth mentioning (unless i want to get literally kicked out of the interview) and i dont have any degree
20:56 < catphish> and take the time to look into companies and write a good covering letter, there will always be a human element in the first impression
20:56 < bls> keep the CV concise, to the point, accurate. 3 pages tells me you either won't last long or are trying to cover something up
20:57 < jim> dr4ken, do you think there would be a coding element to the job you seek?
20:57 < SporkWitch> neighbour sent me his resume to see about getting a job where i work and it looks like something from a jr high student, and full of food service and retail jobs; he's looking for a technical support position...
20:57 < Dagmar> Three pages better mean you've got 25 years of relevant experience
20:57 < catphish> if you screw up your covering letter, they won't even read your CV
20:57 < dr4ken> ananke, SporkWitch, i never lie in important stuff, that's why i do not know how to put personal learnt stuff into CV, because "Self taught X framework" doesnt sounds good for a resume
20:57 < dr4ken> jim, definitely
20:58 < Dagmar> SporkWitch: He should probaly only cite the last three retail jobs, and highlight the duties he performed that the job would share with support (i.e., customer service skills)
20:58 < jim> then there could be a whiteboard section of the interview
20:58 < SporkWitch> 14:55:37] <SporkWitch> dr4ken: don't lie, full-stop
20:58 < ananke> dr4ken: you can skip the 'self taught' part. if it comes up during interview, and you're asked point blank, then don't lie. otherwise, you're hurting your chances.
20:58 < dr4ken> ananke, that's fine by me, i couldnt lie a poiint-blank anyways, im too much of a nervous man to do that
20:58 < Dagmar> After the first lie in a technical interview, they're only going to be humoring you and passing time
20:59 < catphish> dr4ken: i literally recommended hiring someone today *because* they wrote about their self-teaching on their CV
20:59 < dr4ken> specially under an interview where i would be under more stress than usualk
20:59 < catphish> i can't see how writing about self-teaching could ever be a bad thing
20:59 < Dagmar> dr4ken: Allow me to suggest that perhaps f**ks are expensive and you shouldn't give them out to just anybody
20:59 < strixdio> I am migrating weechat from one box to another, but when I connect it tells me "gnutls certificate not trusted" - How do I reset those expected certs?
20:59 < Dagmar> dr4ken: Either they'll hire you or they won't but you're not being paid for the interview
20:59 < ananke> catphish: because of the implications. self-taught as opposed to running something in production means you have less of actual experience
21:00 < bls> strixdio: might want to ask in the weechat channel
21:00 < strixdio> thanks
21:00 < dr4ken> catphish, exactly what ananke said
21:00 < strixdio> didn't think about that HAH
21:00 < uplime> ananke: how are the two related?
21:00  * strixdio waves
21:00 < uplime> self taught people can run things in production
21:00 < catphish> if you say "i spend the last 12 months learning [technology] and now feel i have the necessary skills to apply this in a job role", that's not as good as actual commercial experience, but if you don't have commercial experience, it's a million times better than *not* saying it
21:00 < Dagmar> It helps to be able to demonstrate that you self-taught because you had personal projects that used the tech
21:01 < Dagmar> I've got some cacti setups here that might qualify as a rather specific type of pornography
21:01 < ananke> uplime: except in this case it's clearly an issue of _only_ being self taught with no actual work experience
21:01 < dr4ken> Dagmar, but in my case, my personal project would be just small stuff i self made
21:01 < rascul> if you're going to advertise that you taught yourself a skill, maybe also consider giving an example of successfully utilizing the skill in a relevant manner
21:01 < dr4ken> not actual big recipes for 100 servers in a DC
21:01 < bls> uplime: there's a massive difference between running a business critical application/server vs hosting something you set up in your bedroom, self taught or no
21:01 < rascul> teaching yourself something and not using it in any practical sense means you're as worthless as a college grad
21:01 < catphish> my point is, if you don't have commercial experience, list personal projects instead, it's way better than nothing
21:01 < uplime> bls: sure. I wasn't implying running something in production you setup in your bedroom
21:01 < catphish> or even better, list both
21:01 < dr4ken> rascul, im not even a college grad, i dont have any degree :/
21:01 < SporkWitch> one way i've gotten myself "professional" experience without an actual job is supporting gaming communities.  Being able to say I provided voice, forum, and website services for over 700 users isn't anything to scoff at; that it was for a video game guild doesn't matter, the skillset is the same, if not the stakes
21:01 < uplime> ananke: right, that can definitely be a problem
21:02 < solidfox> catphish, so what
21:02 < solidfox> catphish, I'm learning hacking which I will probably never get a job in that field.
21:02 < catphish> solidfox: so, it's a good idea to list it
21:02 < Dagmar> dr4ken: If you're looking for a position dealing with VMs, it'll be handy to keep in mind that using things like ansible/chef/puppet, the same work that goes into three instances also generally handles 100 instances
21:02 < rascul> dr4ken imo then you're already a step ahead of a college grad, since you didn't go to college ;)
21:02 < Dagmar> heh
21:03 < dr4ken> rascul, if only you knew...
21:03 < dr4ken> i went to college, but i cannot stay in ym coutnry any longer than 12 months, so i have to go, and i would need at least another 4 years to end university
21:04 < catphish> personally i like candidates who are driven / self taught, though in some places qualifications are more important, know your market if possible
21:04 < bls> college is what you make of it. I've interviewed CS masters grads that couldn't pseudo-code a loop, and I've interviewed self-taught folks that thought college was dumb and a waste of time who also ended up thinking working was dumb and a waste of time too
21:04 < Psilocyber> every place i have worked at so far - self-taught > formal education
21:04 < dr4ken> catphish, noted, bls aaand noted, ty guys for the tips
21:04 < catphish> bls: lol that last category sounds very plausible too :(
21:05 < catphish> dr4ken: good luck, whatever your skills, be confident about them
21:05 < berndj> self-taught > formal education depends on some stuff
21:05 < rascul> there's always going to be self taught stuff though
21:05 < jim> dr4ken, https://github.com/TechBookHunter/Free-Coding-Interview-Books
21:05 < catphish> berndj: there's of course no one thing that's better than any other thing, all people think and work in different ways, and different companies will have different attitudes to this
21:06 < bls> catphish: yeah, lots of "I didn't need college like Gates/Zuck/etc, pay me for being awesome"
21:06 < Psilocyber> on the same note, its always been - experience > certifications/education
21:06 < SporkWitch> all comes down to experience; self-taught tends to have more practical experience, but can end up with gaps in knowledge.  formal training will cover a lot of knowledge, but doesn't get you the practical stuff to really implement that knowledge
21:06 < catphish> bls: that works if they *are* awesome, but i guess that may be the exception
21:06 < berndj> catphish, i don't exactly disagree with the inequality; it's just that there are some things that your run of the mill autodidact is less likely to know
21:07 < dr4ken> Psilocyber, yeah but in my case, my exp was quite limited, and didnt used any fancy stuff, because the position was originally only as dev, and even then i didn't had anything "fancy"
21:07 < bls> so if you went to college, did you take advantage of it and use the time to learn the advanced stuff/theory/etc? if you didn't, have you taught yourself the right things and gained the relevant experience or not?
21:07 < catphish> bls: i always got bored by format education, never went to university, wanted to apply myself to something useful instead, hence by bias, but i realise not everyone who couldn't be bothered to get an education is automatically better, gotta pick out the ones who spend all night coding for fun
21:07 < berndj> catphish, for example the autodidacts i've run into, while mostly capable, have certain blind spots. they're not "grounded" in theoretical stuff. like one guy didn't know that regular expressions were a thing
21:08 < catphish> *formal
21:08 < Psilocyber> that happens when you learn stuff top down
21:08 < Psilocyber> vs bottom up
21:08 < catphish> i don't even know what those terms mean
21:09 < dr4ken> bls, definitely, i learned and i mean truly learn about advanced data structures, how they actually benefits from example, having everything into simple arrays, i learn the basic of cryptography, about computation time and asyntotic notation, a bit of Machine Learning (most of it self thaught though), and the rest was just piss code bootcamp
21:10 < catphish> of course, one has to know the market place, no point learning about linked lists when you never end up using a language that doesn't have build in arrays :)
21:10 < dr4ken> bls, and ni have been learning some stuff by myself since i would like to work/dedicate as sysadmin or something in between related, liek system architectures or devop, but that's more to long term
21:10 < Psilocyber> like a guy who learns linux by just using it without ever going into understanding the kernel and underlying hardware has learned from top down only
21:11 < mutante> autodidact means "self-taught" auto (self) didact (trained person)
21:11 < dr4ken> catphish, you can do a linked list without arrays, that's a tricky question
21:11 < mutante> addict is an anagram of didact
21:11 < catphish> dr4ken: high level languages implement arrays, they *are* linked lists, but you don't need to care how they work
21:11 < catphish> because they do it for you :)
21:12 < bls> dr4ken: also, don't underestimate the value of experience gained from voluteering doing things like running a website/forum for a local community center/non-profit/etc if that kind of thing is available to you
21:12 < ananke> linked lists is a fairly fundamental concept that's worth knowing regardless of implementation. that's where having formal education helps, rather than being only self-taught in <whatever technology is hot at the time>
21:13 < catphish> most of my initial learning came from exactly what bls said, doing real projects on a voluntray basis, and being forced to learn the best tech for the job in the process
21:13 < dr4ken> catphish, you can do a linked list without arrays, that's a tricky question (i repeat in case my msg didnt got sent)
21:13 < catphish> ananke: i disagree to an extent, you can easily build a career on high level language without ever learning about memory structures
21:13 < jim> Psilocyber, "top down" and "bottom up" have been applied to parsing algorithms... in a top down approach, a parser will start with "program" (the top of the syntax tree) and head downward to find what the actual program is... whereas bottom up would start at the actual code, and reduce pieces of it to syntax parts more up the tree (like: if(a > 3) { printf("a is greater than 3"); } might become if (<condition>) {<statement>} which in turn might become
21:13 < jim> <statement>
21:13 < ananke> when it comes down to it, technology implementations change very frequently, while underlying concepts do not. knowing the concepts allows people to switch implementations much faster
21:14 < catphish> ananke: i certainly didn't learn C (and hence the low level structures) for years after building a career on high level lenguages
21:14 < catphish> i know them now, but mostly only for hobby reasons
21:14 < ananke> catphish: sure. one can build careers via many different ways. I'm commenting on what makes one a valuable asset
21:14 < dr4ken> catphish, "low level structures" are more like "low level (((implementations))) of any level structures"
21:15 < catphish> ananke: it's true that knowing low level things can help, i guess it's like learning latin
21:15 < catphish> you don't need latin, but it helps with learning things later
21:15 < ananke> catphish: concepts are not necessarily 'low level'
21:16 < Psilocyber> jim: maybe thats where the idea to use it as a learning/teaching style came from - i even found a fancy research paper about the top down/bottom up learning style http://www.cogsci.rpi.edu/~rsun/sun-zhang-jcsr2004-f.pdf
21:16 < ananke> software engineering has tons of very high level stuff, take design patterns for example.
21:16 < catphish> ananke: also true
21:17 < delt> well, it "looks like" my amp was wired backwards..... :/ but still, why do only games swap l/r, and media apps behave correctly?
21:17 < delt> i suck at fps games.... i used to be good :'(
21:17 < SuperSeriousCat> You used to be young
21:18 < catphish> delt: i've also got pregressively worse at fps games as i get older :(
21:19 < delt> catphish: seems me too :'(
21:19 < catphish> delt: you said it first
21:20 < delt> catphish: oh? sorry, alzheimer's
21:20 < catphish> lol
21:20 < catphish> i should probably get back to work
21:20 < catphish> supposed too be writing an iscsi server, it's hard
21:21 < bls> haha, supposed to be writing some disk imaging software, it's boring
21:22 < delt> catphish: im supposed to be writing a sentence on the blackboard, 500 times...... oh wait, that was 70 years ago
21:22 < catphish> lol
21:22 < catphish> delt: you're not that old
21:23 < Tazmain> Hi all, I am trying to do delete a folder but I keep getting directory not empty and it has a .fuse234234234.... file in I can't seem to remove?
21:23 < SporkWitch> Tazmain: unmount the fuse mount
21:46 < bongsun> so i discovered the lolcat command and im trying to put its colored output to /etc/motd, does anyone know how to make this work? piping and redirecting doesnt include the escape codes. also tried expect and grep --color=always but that didnt work either.
21:47 < bongsun> any ideas?
21:49 < SporkWitch> bongsun: https://lmgtfy.com/?s=d&q=colored+output+to+/etc/motd
21:49 < mutante> bongsun: how do i get the lolcat command?
21:49 < SporkWitch> mutante: https://lmgtfy.com/?s=d&q=how+do+i+get+the+lolcat+command?
21:49 < mutante> i just know figlet and toilet
21:49 < MrElendig> ponysay
21:50 < MrElendig> (yes it is a thing)
21:50 < SporkWitch> don't forget docker's whalesay
21:51 < neoncortex> in general, command line tools will strip out the formatting codes if your output is not a shell
21:52 < mutante> thanks :)
21:52 < SporkWitch> pipes can strip it out too; need to write an alias on some distros to get syntax highlighting in manpages, for example, since it pipes to less, stripping the formattin
21:52 < bongsun> yeah im trying to run it on centos though and dynamic motd's are debian based only. i have to change the /etc/profile which is kinda hacky. i just want a static /etc/motd
21:53 < bongsun> oh yeah i havent tried `less`
21:53 < bongsun> it be nice if i could just be a ctrl c ctrl v thing
21:53 < Dagmar> You don't have to change /etc/profile, just drop a script fragment in /etc/profile.d
21:59 < jason85> Does /bin/sh keep a command history?
22:00 < bongsun> @Dagmar ah yes profile.d will do the trick and is an option, it be nice to skip installing lolcat which brings a whole slew of ruby deps
22:01 < livingbeef> This is more freedesktop/gnu channal rather than the kernell, isn't it?
22:02 < lupine> bit of everything
22:02 < bls> livingbeef: this is more userland, ##kernel is for lower level
22:02 < bls> livingbeef: but there's crossover
22:02 < bls> jason85: no
22:03 < neoncortex> also, /bin/sh is a link to /bin/bash (at least in Debian and their affiliates)
22:03 < livingbeef> bls: kernell will probably be better. Past around 4.14.6, reads on HDD randomly cause infinete I/O blocks
22:04 < jason85> I see, thanks
22:04 < Sitri> I thought Debian moved to dash along with everyone else ages ago?
22:04 < livingbeef> join ##kernel
22:04 < dhawan> hey everyone, Actually I am working on a project that is a command line cient server application. Is there any way to take the input from a server and displaying the output on a web page rather than on terminal.Actually I wnted to add Web interface in a command line application to enhace the user experience
22:05 < jason85> Is there any way to keep a history of all shell commands a user enters? For example the system() call from the C library?
22:05 < lupine> there's a variety of projects that aim to get such commands into the audit log
22:05 < Sitri> jason85: No, but bash, zsh and possibly ksh or tcsh will.
22:05 < lupine> they're all susceptible to various bypasses
22:05 < Sitri> SELinux?
22:05 < neoncortex> Sitri: oh you're right, it's actually dash, I did not noticed it before
22:07 < lupine> https://github.com/a2o/snoopy
22:07 < lupine> this is what we had installed at the last place I worked
22:07 < lupine> mostly, it led to people having to go wipe out passwords from logs when they'd accidentally typed them into the wrong window
22:11 < bls> dhawan: looked at: https://github.com/yudai/gotty
22:19 < dhawan> :-(Is there any way to take the input from a server and displaying the output on a web page rather than on terminal.Actually I wnted to add Web interface in a command line application to enhace the user experience
22:20 < bls> dhawan: looked at: https://github.com/yudai/gotty ?
22:20 < debkad> sound like a bot script
22:21 < dhawan> thanks @bls
22:21 < dhawan> O:-)
22:24 < xamithan> Do you know which program is better for the web ssh
22:25 < xamithan> I should use ajax ?
22:25 < xamithan> or shellinabox
22:28 < ananke> xamithan: 'ajax' is a technology, not a product
22:28 < jim> what's web ssh?
22:28 < fareast> moving from fedora to kubuntu
22:28 < fareast> I don't think there is anything stopping me now I just hit a wall.
22:29 < jim> do you want to keep the content of your home dir?
22:29 < fareast> nope
22:29 < jim> config settings?
22:29 < fareast> nope
22:29 < fareast> I am going to delete the whole partition
22:30 < fareast> it comes to having a package not ported for fedora
22:30 < jim> sounds like you should just wipe and reinstall then, is that what you're in the middle of doing?
22:30 < fareast> that is all it was
22:30 < fareast> yes
22:30 < fareast> I am downloading now
22:30 < fareast> what is a good usb writer I should use
22:30 < fareast> fedora has one doesn't it.
22:30 < jim> possibly kubuntu has a netinstall
22:31 < fareast> really i can fire it up from inside fedora?
22:31 < jim> wait, what package is this? and what software that you want is in it?
22:31 < fareast> it is pia
22:31 < fareast> vpn
22:31 < fareast> it has been done but with limited features integrated into the fedora network manager vpn
22:32 < jim> so it's a program to connect to your vpn?
22:32 < fareast> yes
22:32 < fareast> they just botched out the servers and entered them in fedora
22:32 < jim> would it be ok to use a different program if it also connects to your vpn?
22:32 < toothe> Is there a way to do "find / -perm" such that we can view which "other" users have read-write-execute privileages?
22:33 < fareast> I mean sure but is there really one that has the full feature
22:33 < jim> wait, I don't understand yet... botched the servers?
22:33 < fareast> yeah they took the programs servers and entered them into fedora with a separate script
22:33 < fareast> made by a third party
22:34 < jim> "entered them into fedora", could you explain that?
22:34 < fareast> only problem is there is only 128 no 256
22:34 < fareast> they are in the vpn listing in the network manager of fedora
22:34 < jim> that I don't understand either
22:34 < fareast> no autoconnect or nothing
22:34 < xamithan> jim: like a ssh console on a website
22:34 < fareast> you have to select which one
22:34 < fareast> Connections in System
22:35 < fareast> Connections - System Setting Module Kde
22:35 < jim> xamithan, let me try to understand this other thing
22:35 < jim> I'll become more available in a bit
22:37 < jim> fareast, ok, I need to back up several steps... first, you want to move to kubuntu, do you mean at home? or on a remote?
22:37 < fareast> home
22:37  * shan is going to bed, he'll troubleshoot the stupid disappearing v4l2loopback tomorrow
22:37 < fareast> I can do it
22:37 < fareast> don't worry
22:37 < fareast> its just linux really needs to merge terminal install codes.
22:37 < fareast> bridge gaps between debian and ubuntu you know.
22:38 < fareast> make it all work together.
22:38 < shan> That would go against Linux policy. Also, it's fedora and debian that need to be bridged.
22:38 < fareast> all of it
22:38 < fareast> lol
22:38 < jim> ok, is there something wrong with the VPNs you have?
22:38 < fareast> no everythings cool
22:39 < fareast> I am just going to move to ubuntu
22:39 < shan> But fedora is better...
22:39 < fareast> that is what people are saying.
22:39 < fareast> the kde experience is better.
22:39 < fareast> but that is all relative correct.
22:40 < shan> You can get KDE on Debian
22:40 < jim> ok, so you're just waiting for it to download?
22:40 < jim> easily
22:40 < fareast> yeah its done
22:40 < fareast> kubuntu is where I am going sad to say
22:40 < shan> There was no need to switch to Fedora just for KDE...
22:40 < shan> Gah, I prefer hardware to software
22:40 < fareast> Only reason I did it is because someone said they liked kde on fedora
22:41 < fareast> yeah well me too
22:41 < jim> shan, it's pretty likely that you'd need both
22:41 < fareast> I want hardware compatibility and program compatibility without the fuss
22:41 < SporkWitch> fareast: no shame in it.  I use it for the convenience.  It has extensive support, bundles 99% of the stuff i'd have installed anyway without too much extra that i wouldn't have.  I can do the same in arch and others, but the maintenance overhead is much higher, so why bother?
22:42 < fareast> that is right.
22:42 < fareast> if it works for you use it that is what I say.
22:42 < fareast> I am just sad mint has dropped kde
22:43 < fareast> they did didn't they?
22:43 < SporkWitch> now if the playonlinux team would just either maintain playonlinux4 or release a packaged version of phoenicis... spent the last 12 hours fighting with this damn thing, it's like i traveled 10 years back in time.
22:43 < xamithan> If GNS3 worked good in fedora I wouldn't be using ubuntu =(
22:43 < SporkWitch> Been ages since wine's actually been a headache to get things working in >_<
22:43 < fareast> linux can get lovely like that
22:43 < jim> fareast, it'd give you a chance to try something else
22:43 < fareast> I am still hunting for a quickbooks
22:43 < shan> fareast: all Linux is extremely hardware compatible, and at worst you can just write your own drivers. And Ubuntu is the right place to go for program compatibility so I think you're pointed in the right direction.
22:43 < xamithan> Goodluck with that,  might as well use a VM for quickbook
22:44 < fareast> thanks shan
22:44 < fareast> I found a copy of 8.0 enterprise
22:44 < SporkWitch> "write your own drivers" lol; yeah, let's count how many people citing hardware compatibility that's a legitimate option for
22:44 < fareast> digging around in my uncles file cabinet
22:44 < SporkWitch> that's no different than the "just fork it" answer; it is not a legitimate response to a user
22:45 < fareast> I mean I can wing it I always do but do I want to is the question.
22:46 < jim> fareast, so... you're ok then? the install is going well?
22:47 < arora> hey, where are motherboard drivers in the kernel?
22:48 < jim> there are probably not overall motherboard drivers; instead, the drivers are for individual chipsets
22:48 < shan> SporkWitch: 20 yo piece of equipment that no one has heard of let alone seen and tested drivers on. That's the kind of situation I was saying write your own driver for.
22:49 < SporkWitch> shan: to say that's an edge case is an understatement; on what planet would we assume you meant that rather than something from the last 5 or even 10 years? lol
22:49 < fareast> ok I am using disk image writer to make the usb
22:49 < arora> jim: and where are they in the tree?
22:50 < shan> SporkWitch: I did say, worst case. Most things already have a Linux driver, even the real obscure ones
22:50 < fareast> lol i don't take time to close windows people get lost when i work on computers.
22:50 < fareast> got like 10 things open lol
22:50  * shan is sleepy.
22:50 < SporkWitch> fareast: you save files to the desktop too, don't you? disgusting :P
22:50 < fareast> yes it do
22:50 < shan> I have show files disable in tweaks
22:51 < fareast> hey my desk in my office looks like a bomb went off
22:51 < bls> and I bet you have more tabs than you can read titles in
22:51 < fareast> when i take a desk job i tell them I need 2 desks
22:51 < bls> *scoff* *scoff*
22:51 < fareast> no i don't do that.
22:51 < fareast> i do close my tabs
22:51 < SporkWitch> shan: my point is that even saying that is misleading, since basically any sane person would assume much more recent hardware than that, and worst case for that is typically a google search and some copypasta
22:51 < fareast> and i clean my desk area
22:52 < fareast> i got 2 things a computer and a paper shredder screw a file cabinet.
22:52 < SporkWitch> shan: you want to be mindful of comments like you made, because it's stuff like that that perpetuates the myths and propaganda (much of it paid for by MSFT to the tune of millions) that simply don't hold today.
22:52 < fareast> lol
22:53 < shan> SporkWitch: agreed it was poor judgement mixed with attempt at humour
22:54 < fareast> once this disk writes I am going to drop this os like a bad habit
22:54 < liveuser1> any real source based distros out there?
22:55 < liveuser1> where the commands are readable source files?
22:55 < liveuser1> while back gentoo was
22:55 < SporkWitch> huh? O.o
22:55 < SporkWitch> still is
22:55 < liveuser1> now it looks like it rolls up
22:55 < neoncortex> anyone there have one of those? https://shop.libiquity.com/product/taurinus-x200
22:55 < liveuser1> rolls up into binary and still lists as a source distro
22:55 < liveuser1> SporkWitch: what?
22:56 < SporkWitch> neoncortex: If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later.
22:56 < liveuser1> source based not source downloader
22:56 < SporkWitch> liveuser1: gentoo still compiles everything from source unless you explicitly pull a binary
22:56 < neoncortex> SporkWitch: I asked a question =D
22:56 < liveuser1> gentoo looks now like a binary distro which has a source downloader
22:56 < SporkWitch> neoncortex: you had a survey, not an actual question
22:56 < liveuser1> SporkWitch: the /sbin files used to be source
22:57 < neoncortex> SporkWitch: I want to know if anyone there have one of those to know how good or bad it is
22:57 < liveuser1> readable from a text editor
22:57 < SporkWitch> liveuser1: yes, it downloads and compiles from source; what else do you expect it to do? you can't run C source lol
22:57 < liveuser1> So there are going to be only a few /bin files
22:57 < liveuser1> SporkWitch yeah SOURCE based
22:58 < liveuser1> not SOURCE compiled
22:58 < SporkWitch> i don't think you understand how computers work lol
22:58 < MrElendig> liveuser1: you are not making any sense at all
22:58 < liveuser1> SporkWitch: Ive witnessed it ok
22:58 < SporkWitch> were there flying saucers involved?
22:58 < liveuser1> Say I run a python program
22:58 < liveuser1> THeres a text file of source
22:58 < liveuser1> IRC.py
22:58 < SporkWitch> python is an interpreted language, though it can also be compiled
22:59 < liveuser1> but theres also gcc IRC.py > IRC (bin)
22:59 < liveuser1> In source based the IRC.py is text in /sbin
22:59 < SporkWitch> it does JIT compiling to execute the code, and has an associated performance hit (which is why large ones pre-compile much of it and keep it, so it doesn't have to compile every time it runs)
22:59 < liveuser1> so /sbin/IRC
22:59 < liveuser1> runs FROM SOURCE
22:59 < neoncortex> gcc compiles Python? I did not know that
22:59 < liveuser1> SOURCE BASED
23:00 < SporkWitch> liveuser1: no, it doesn't, it compiles the source at runtime and runs the compiled code
23:00 < liveuser1> not SOURCE RECOMPILED FROM A REMOTE REPO WITH BINARY ADDITIONS
23:00 < mutante> let's rename /sbin to /sexec  since it doesn't really mean binary files, it means executable files
23:00 < Dagmar> Apparently it also permanently damages the shift-lock key
23:00 < SporkWitch> liveuser1: most programming languages DO NOT work this way, because it's resource-intensive and inefficient.  This is why most things are written in some flavour of C
23:00 < Dagmar> Good thing I know never to install it
23:00 < liveuser1> SporkWitch: Which distro is SOURCE BASED RUNTIMES
23:01 < liveuser1> Sourcery was
23:01 < liveuser1> heh?
23:01 < liveuser1> Is it still working?
23:01 < SporkWitch> liveuser1: there is no meaningful distinction here.  Whether you download the source and compile it ahead of time or download the source and compile it at run-time, you're still pulling source, compiling it, and running the binary result
23:01 < mutante> sounds like that would make it slow
23:01  * jim thinks someone's caps lock is stuck
23:02 < liveuser1> SporkWitch there is a difference between /sbin and /bin
23:02 < SporkWitch> liveuser1: want to know what the source for that binary on gentoo is? it's right there on the drive still
23:02 < rypervenche> He's arguing semantics and it's pointless.
23:02 < jim> liveuser1, some stuff has to be compiled
23:02 < SporkWitch> rypervenche: it happens a lot with the young ones that don't know much
23:02 < liveuser1> The interpretors and basic commands and compiler go in /bin and EVERYTHING else /sbin
23:02 < liveuser1> epec to see binutils gcc and perl python etc in /bin
23:02 < mutante> liveuser1: the "s" in sbin stands for "system" not for "source"
23:02 < rypervenche> SporkWitch: Age doesn't always have much to do with it, but yeah.
23:03 < liveuser1> mutante after mutante ?
23:03 < liveuser1> SporkWitch what are you running?
23:03 < SporkWitch> rypervenche: older ones are usually more articulate and use fewer caps, even if they're just as confused
23:03 < mutante> liveuser1: after FHS
23:04 < liveuser1> supposedly gentoo is the "best" source based distro
23:04 < lupine> gentoo isn't the best anything
23:04 < liveuser1> looks like i is a binary distro with a remote source repository
23:04 < SporkWitch> it's the most popular source based distro that i'm aware of
23:04 < liveuser1> then it compiles it from a combination of source and boinary
23:04 < mutante> liveuser1: apt-get source  covers all Debian-based distros too
23:04 < SporkWitch> you are wrong, it is source based.  portage downloads that source, compiles locally
23:04 < lupine> nobody compiles from stage1 though
23:04 < lupine> they all start at stage3 or so
23:05 < SporkWitch> lupine: you have the choice if you want to take the time
23:05 < mutante> you dont need a special distro just to download the source and compile locally
23:05 < mutante> if you want to
23:05 < liveuser1> Which distro is SOURCE BASED ?
23:05 < SporkWitch> gentoo
23:05 < neoncortex> I did compiled Gentoo from stage 1 once .. then I realize it's pointless and wipe it all off xD
23:05 < lupine> none of them
23:05 < liveuser1> aqs has been explained with minimal binaries
23:05 < liveuser1> say gcc binutils , interpretors
23:05 < bls> liveuser1: all of them
23:06 < SporkWitch> neoncortex: 80486 with 48MB of RAM running Gentoo; first time i ever compiled a kernel.  Only took about 8 hours lol
23:06 < rypervenche> bls: ^
23:06 < liveuser1> There was a time when a tect editor can open up files in sbin
23:06 < liveuser1> text
23:06 < SporkWitch> liveuser1: man hier
23:06 < neoncortex> SporkWitch: That's heroic
23:07 < mutante> liveuser1: file /sbin/* | grep -v ELF
23:07 < bls> SporkWitch: and it blew away all those bloated kernels stock kernels by a whopping 0.01%!
23:07 < SporkWitch> neoncortex: when my pop bought the p1 i got the old 486 :P
23:07 < Dagmar> I can't believe you people are actually arguing with a webchat user
23:07 < SporkWitch> bls: EXACTLY!
23:07 < liveuser1> SporkWitch: see what you can find out about crystaline memory structures natural form
23:07 < SporkWitch> bls: though to be fair, hardware constraints like that are NOT an illegitimate reason to look at something like gentoo.  Squeazing out ever drop of performance matters
23:07 < liveuser1> I used the word thinking, recalling crystaline memory structures
23:07 < mutante> some files in sbin are shell scripts and some are not, the "s" has nothing to do with that
23:08  * rypervenche yawns.
23:08 < liveuser1> Is it really appropriate to say "thinking"?
23:08 < rypervenche> You all done with the troll yet?
23:08 < liveuser1> SporkWitch: pm results
23:08 < Dagmar> When you're using webchat?  We know you're just kidding.
23:08 < rypervenche> Some actual Linux chat might be fun
23:09 < Dagmar> SporkWitch: Odd then how no one ever seems to have gentoo deployed in actual high-performance roles
23:09 < SporkWitch> Dagmar: he's in missourri, he's gotta find SOME way to entertain himself
23:10 < triceratux> woo woo how bout that new rfremix 28 ? [    0.000000] Linux version 4.16.5-300.fc28.x86_64 (mockbuild@bkernel02.phx2.fedoraproject.org) (gcc version 8.0.1 20180324 (Red Hat 8.0.1-0.20) (GCC)) #1 SMP Fri Apr 27 17:38:36 UTC 2018
23:10 < SporkWitch> Dagmar: not really.  Gentoo improves performance by stripping out everything you can that you don't need.  In practical applications, it's cheaper to just throw more RAM or a better CPU at it.
23:10 < SporkWitch> Dagmar: that's part of how we ended up in the situation we are today, regardless of OS: hardware advanced so fast programmers got to be lazy lol
23:11 < SporkWitch> Dagmar: there's a great patchnote i had a screenshot of, i'll see if i can find it, but basically it was "fixed memory leak by increasing minimum requirements"
23:13 < bls> SporkWitch: I just read through folklore.org and it brought back memories of writing software for embedded systems with RAM in KB/MB range
23:13 < neoncortex> I'm not a professional programmer, but I just can't believe people don't try to fix leaks in their code .. how can they sleep?
23:14 < milpool> neoncortex: alcohol.
23:14 < neoncortex> milpool: oh =D
23:14 < milpool> that's how i do it anyway ;)
23:15 < neoncortex> I mean, I'm writing some software for myself mostly, and valgrind are showing some leaks .. I'll don't stop until I find it, I mean, I can't, it's wrong and I need to fix it, even if nobody going to see
23:16 < SporkWitch> Dagmar: found it https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ny2pCRPCOmI/WsTwTsP_IoI/AAAAAAAAFBY/cMrX_4DbL_Y3eKQ06QFY3AS2rPDQjAObACL0BGAYYCw/h364/6481387015468795799%253Faccount_id%253D0
23:17 < Dagmar> I suppose now they want threet 1080 cards and 128Gb of RAM
23:18 < neoncortex> later
23:23 < SporkWitch> Dagmar: i have a 1060 in the desktop that died; planning to add a single extra 1060 on my next build.  they don't do SLI, but i don't need that, the plan is one to run the host and hte other for passthrough on a windows guest
23:24 < xamithan> That sounds like a waste of a 1060 just to do regular tasks
23:24 < xamithan> You going to cryptomine ?
23:25 < SporkWitch> xamithan: allows running native linux apps with acceleration as well.  i'd only be using the VM for games i can't make work in WINE
23:26 < quint> I want to fully overwrite the contents of a USB disk. How do I determine the correct block size to use? I noticed that the write rate is much higher if I use 1M as opposed to the default 512 with the dd utility. Is there any drawback to using 1M instead of 512?
23:26 < xamithan> Ah that makes sense if you got the extra cash.  Too rich for my blood
23:26 < SporkWitch> xamithan: and it's not like 1060s are expensive now, and they won't be come this xmas when i'm hoping to do the next build
23:27 < ayecee> quint: no drawback. go ahead and use 1M.
23:27 < xamithan> expensive is a relative term O.o
23:27 < SporkWitch> xamithan: GTX1060s were only 250-300 two years ago
23:27 < quint> thanks ayecee
23:27 < xamithan> And they are still 250-300
23:27 < SporkWitch> xamithan: so probably no more than 200 by this xmas; that's nothing when i'm looking at a 1kUSD proc lol
23:28 < xamithan> I fear you underestimate cryptominers buying up all the GPUs
23:28 < SporkWitch> xamithan: prices are coming back down, was a report earlier this week, actually
23:33 < quint> Also, does anyone know if the pv utility "hangs up" when it reaches the size given in the -s switch? or is it strictly to determine the progress of the write?
23:34 < Sitri> There's an easy way to test...
23:35 < quint> Well I guess that's true! 8^)
23:36 < Sitri> $ xxd /dev/zero | head > tmp99999
23:36 < Sitri> $ cat tmp99999 | pv -s 32
23:36 < quint> Sitri: turns out it does not hang up
23:37 < quint> In fact, it actually displays a percentage above 100
23:37 < quint> Neat.
23:38 < Sitri> Interestingly `cat file | pv` is faster than `pv file`
23:38 < quint> Huh.
23:38 < Sitri> Or at least pv reports faster I/O
23:39 < mattfly> have anyone in here ever found the right youtube video to watch but when you play it is mono and annoynly plays on just one side of your headphone?
23:40 < coco> no
23:40 < mattfly> like a mono video on a stereo phone
23:40 < mattfly> like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgeX-U4dKSs&index=5&list=PLHh55M_Kq4OApWScZyPl5HhgsTJS9MZ6M
23:40 < Sitri> Maybe?  But I have speakers.
23:40 < mattfly> what is a hack up i can do to hear this on both ears?
23:41 < mattfly> but on the fly
23:41 < pressure679> MP3 uses mono, MP4 uses stereo. Both can play on two earbuds.
23:41 < quint> mattfly: I believe mpv has a switch for downmixing to mono, it supports youtube URLs.
23:41 < mattfly> thats playing on only one speaker
23:44 < dysfigured> what's the best way to set up a 'guest' user account available to ssh that can only run a small restricted set of commands?
23:46 < ayecee> what are the ways you're considering?
23:46 < dysfigured> well currently i'm relying on ForceCommand in sshd_config and the sort of 'jail' that wemux provides
23:47 < coco> mattfly i connected via Tor and can hear that yes, your video link with the embedded faildox faildox faildox the audio is on the left only lol
23:47 < coco> fail.
23:47 < coco> dox FAIL
23:47 < mattfly> yeah how could i convert that on the fly?
23:47 < mattfly> so many videos are like that
23:47 < dysfigured> which seems to work well, nobody's escaped the wemux jail yet, but even though the guest account isn't priviliged i worry that it could still be bad
23:47 < mattfly> I have pulseaudio here
23:47 < ayecee> it sounds like a reasonable way
23:48 < dysfigured> it's putting a lot of faith in wemux tho, which i'm not sure i have
23:48 < mattfly> If i create a mono sink with pacmd and make it input the audio stream and output it to my phone it oculd work
23:54 < Sitri> dysfigured: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSSH/Cookbook/Public_Key_Authentication#Single-purpose_Keys
23:55 < dysfigured> what if i want to just allow everybody in this channel to connect anonymously
23:56 < Sitri> Combine that with SSH's CA setup (where the server host provides the keypairs it accepts, and thus granting access means you give out a keypair rather than them giving you a public key)
23:57 < Sitri> Change the shell the account is tied to then.
--- Log closed Sat May 05 00:00:09 2018