--- Log opened Sun May 06 00:00:10 2018
00:00 < sauvin> Apples and oranges. I can't easily use a BSD because its userland tends to be rather primitive.
00:00 < pnbeast> No matter what we're arguing about, here, I'm 100% sure that the definition of "UNIX or not is decided by what sauvin finds easy to use".
00:01 < sauvin> True enough. I was just saying that Linux ain't "UNIX-like" the same way the BSDs are.
00:01 < pnbeast> Er, move that second quotation mark way back, to just after "not".
00:01 < sauvin> What you meant was clear enough.
00:02 < pnbeast> If you want to argue about degrees of UNIX-like, you can.  I'm saying BSDs are not UNIX, and they're not.  The code is all divergent, per legal decision(s), AFAIK.
00:02 < mawk> probably Celmor
00:03 < mawk> it's not quite finished but you can already use it to run your application one more time to detect the touched files
00:03 < mawk> Celmor: http://gitlab.suut.in/sasha/overlay
00:03  * sauvin does some reading
00:03 < pnbeast> And back to the original question, though I know truss works on Suns, I don't know how to trace system calls on a BSD.  dtrace sounds like it might be the route to take.
00:04 < uplime> yeah i think ill just bite the bullet and read the dtrace book
00:05 < sauvin> Ah, I was both right and wrong. BSD was at one time directly taken from UNIX source, but they replaced it all.
00:05 < mawk> Celmor: sudo ./overlay.sh yourapplication
00:05 < mawk> it will tell you which files were modified
00:05 < mawk> it won't really modify your system, it just discards the changes afterwards
00:06 < mawk> a dry-run
00:07 < Celmor> yourapplication being a command or executable in PATH?
00:07 < Celmor> nice
00:08 < Celmor> would add at least a license file to that repo
00:08 < mawk> yeah
00:08 < mawk> yes Celmor
00:08 < Celmor> alright, thanks
00:08 < mawk> sudo ./overlay.sh program arguments
00:08 < mawk> like the "sudo ./overlay.sh" part wasn't here
00:34 < jml2> licenses are for non-proprietary software
00:34 < jml2> lol
00:34 < jml2> unless of course.. you mean "proprietary"
00:34 < jml2> and that is a sin
00:36 < revel> jml2: Err, no. If you don't add *any* license, then, technically, you hold full copyright to the software.
00:37 < revel> And people can't really legally take it, copy it, use it, w/e
00:41 < jml2> my gimp skillz suck
00:41 < jml2> lol
00:42 < SporkWitch> jml2: would you say you're a gimp at gimp? :P
00:42 < jml2> i'm a chimp at gimp.. i need to change a site header
00:43 < jml2> currently trying out the latest with flatpak
00:43 < jml2> flatpak is so dam easy to use except it makes no .desktop files, had to brand one and i was tghen able to see it in the menu
00:45 < SporkWitch> is that the same as snap?  used that for the first time the other day, definitely easy, but didn't generate any launcher shortcuts in KDE, and it had no persistence (i installed opentyrian, and it's reset to fresh state every launch, no save games, settings changes, etc.; it may as well be an arcade cabinet)
00:45 < gregor2> Hey Guys!
00:49 < sauvin> I flatpak'd Krita just to see what something really recent looks like, and its "open file" dialog doesn't work, won't even pop up at all.
00:50 < sauvin> The flatpak'd gimp works very well, though.
00:50 < oiaohm> sauvin: wonder if that is portals related with Krita
00:52 < sauvin> You can drag 'n' drop images into it, though.
00:54 < oiaohm> sauvin: https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=xdg-desktop-portal you do have the xdg-desktop-portal stuff installed?
00:54 < sauvin> Don't think so.
00:55 < oiaohm> sauvin: because that missing would stuff the file dialogs
00:55 < phogg> sauvin: opening files would escape the sandbox, so I don't know how that's supposed to ever work
00:55 < oiaohm> sauvin: of some flatpak applicatiohns.
00:55 < jml2> xdg-desktop-portal wats that?
00:56 < jml2> desktop integration portal for Flatpak  -- ah
00:56 < sauvin> No clue, but dpkg says I have it installed.
00:56 < sauvin> File OPEN fails, but file SAVE works.
00:56 < mawk> sandbox doesn't mean no files phogg
00:56 < jml2> was installed as well on my system.. i used 'xdg-desktop-menu install abc.desktop'
00:57 < mawk> it could mean only a subset of files, or a separate set of files
00:57 < mawk> no files at all isn't practical; just to start the application the libc does a dozen of open()
00:57 < phogg> mawk: I see that this xdg-desktop-portal thing is supposed to mediate access
00:57 < kalinite> mooq
00:57 < phogg> actually this is a very good idea which should be done anyway and long ago
00:57 < oiaohm> sauvin: you have at least the gtk version installed.    I have both the kde and gtk versions installed.
00:58 < mawk> it's pretty heavy
00:58 < oiaohm> sauvin: I said stuff because it was more than 1 part so it works.
00:58 < mawk> and file permissions already works quite well phogg
00:58 < phogg> app wants a file dialog, sends a request for a file dialog via a message to the environment which chooses a file dialog implementation to present to the user. Once interaction is complete a message returns to the application with the result. Multi process, message passing. It's like this is 1993 again.
00:58 < mawk> it's not quite on par with how linux works
00:59 < mawk> linux isn't a microkernel
00:59 < mawk> but why not
00:59 < phogg> mawk: you don't need a microkernel for a message oriented design.
01:00 < phogg> in fact this was the big innovation of NeXT, originally (also objective C)
01:00 < mawk> no but it fits better overall
01:00 < sauvin> Fits what better overall?
01:00 < phogg> this is essentially the design used by the newer desktop menu systems on Linux, too: use dbus to make menu requests to some implementation which does the display
01:00 < oiaohm> Really portals is the first time we have seen a unified dialogs on Linux.
01:00 < phogg> you don't need a microkernel for it *at* *all*, you only need some kind of IPC
01:01 < phogg> OS/2 used this kind of thing for controlling presentation in its WM, as I recall. Hearsay only, I didn't use OS/2
01:01 < mawk> the philosophy behind microkernels sauvin
01:02 < oiaohm> mawk: multi processes ipc predates microkernels.
01:02 < sauvin> Actually, I hear a microkernel comes with somewhat impacted performance.
01:02 < phogg> there's overhead due to the storm of messages
01:02 < phogg> some people don't like that
01:03 < phogg> if you write it badly enough this overhead can eventually kill you, but it's not like that has to happen
01:03 < mawk> to get back to your idea of a portal between a sandbox and the main OS you can have some file server distributing opened files using SCM_RIGHTS
01:03 < mawk> that thing is pretty cool
01:04 < sauvin> You could also just set up a simple, stupid TCP server and call it a day.
01:04 < mawk> yeah but you need a shared network then
01:04 < mawk> it's way heavier
01:04 < phogg> mawk: I think the idea is a fine one. It should have been done long ago and then we wouldn't need anything new to support flatpak.
01:04 < mawk> and over tcp you can't send file descriptors
01:04 < phogg> sauvin: domain sockets would be way more performant. But sure, any kind of IPC.
01:04 < mawk> the idea was to isolate the filesystem sauvin
01:04 < phogg> in practice it will be dbus or a dbus-negotiated side channel
01:05 < mawk> using a unix socket the file can be opened on the host and sent to the sandbox
01:05 < mawk> the sandbox never sees the real fs
01:05 < mawk> that would be the innovation
01:05 < phogg> mawk: I wouldn't call it an innovation. Not exactly a new idea.
01:06 < phogg> if we have one problem in Linux land is that there are not enough daemons and not enough protocols. Everything is too tightly integrated.
01:07 < phogg> it's so easy to just some a problem some way and then update all programs to match
01:07 < oiaohm> mawk: the ability to pass file handles over unix sockets has been there for a very long time.   Has been used by some services for a long time when they have.   Its also turned out the Linux kernel handling of this has been horrible until recently.
01:07 < phogg> s/some/solve/
01:07 < phogg> oiaohm: oh? What was the problem with the kernel side of that?
01:09 < oiaohm> phogg: its the reason why dbus-broker a newer implementation of dbus need 4.14 kernel or newer.    https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=27eac47b00789522ba00501b0838026e1ecb6f05
01:09 < oiaohm> phogg: yep a bug that allowed a process to consume all file handles in a system even when ulimit did not allow that.
01:10 < phogg> oiaohm: aahh, very nice
01:10 < oiaohm> phogg: its like all things until something properly uses it bugs go not noticed for years.
01:11 < phogg> oiaohm: indeed
01:11 < phogg> oiaohm: was this reported somewhere or would I have had to have been following the lkml?
01:12 < oiaohm> phogg: I saw news about dbus-broker and I was like hmm why the 4.14 limitation.
01:12 < oiaohm> phogg: or newer.  Not like dbus should be doing something that special.
01:13 < mawk> what are the chances of a SCTP packet being dropped over the internet ?
01:14 < phogg> oiaohm: ah, I see.
01:14 < mawk> or any exotic protocol like that
01:14 < oiaohm> phogg: once I saw what the problem was it explained a stack of random issues I had over the years.
01:14 < uplime> mawk: why would it be more or less than any other packet?
01:15 < mawk> because of misconfigured firewalls
01:15 < mawk> the internet likes TCP and UDP
01:15 < uplime> oh oops
01:15 < uplime> i thought you had written sftp
01:15 < uplime> my bad
01:15 < mawk> ICMP packets are frequently dropped for instance
01:15 < mawk> ah
01:15 < phogg> misconfigured is the wrong word
01:15 <@jim> kalinite, did you get a linux dist installed? found the problem?
01:15 < phogg> broken is more accurate
01:15 < mawk> lol
01:17 < oiaohm> mawk: internet network of random luck at times.
01:18 < kalinite> hi @jim, I'm still away from my machine right now
01:18 < phogg> In some ways the hurd guys have it right. For everything you need provide a daemon even if you *could* do it without a daemon. If you do that you slow things down but also have opportunity for better modularity,  much greater flexibility and composibility. Being direct is a performance hack, and to some extent a cognition hack.
01:18 < uplime> is SCMP like ICMP but secure?
01:18 <@jim> kalinite, ok... just checkin in
01:18 < phogg> uplime: SCTP, not SCMP.
01:19 < uplime> :|
01:19 < uplime> im going to stop now
01:19 < uplime> because clearly i can't read
01:19 < phogg> uplime: just go sit in the corner until you've read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_Control_Transmission_Protocol
01:19 < uplime> haha
01:20 < uplime> thanls
01:20 < uplime> thanks*
01:20 < oiaohm> uplime: SCTP is in the udp and tcp classes of protocols.
01:20 < uplime> right
01:20 < uplime> the transport layer
01:20 <@jim> uplime, it's just a small typo
01:20 < kalinite> @your curiosity has been noted:)
01:21 < kalinite> @jim
01:21 < phogg> if it had been invented 20 years sooner it would be everywhere
01:21 < oiaohm> mawk: there are lot of different reports with SCTP.   You have better odds over internet with tcp/udp than sctp different carriers sctp does not work at all though their gear let alone internet.
01:21 < revel> Ooh, ICMP? Intercontinental missile protocol?
01:21 < phogg> revel: let's say yes
01:21 < revel> Awesome.
01:22 < tds> you probably could use it for that, but it sounds like a bad idea :)
01:22 < mawk> as it has port numbers I'd have expected stateful firewalls to handle it correctly
01:23 < oiaohm> tds: ICMP could be thinking you can stick a data packet on iCMP.  Some single packet knock programs used that.
01:23 < revel> Hmm, can't believe I forgot what ICMP was.
01:23 < phogg> revel: go home, you are drunk
01:23 < jml2> yeah there's a kit to use icmp-payloads to work around firewalls... dumb firewalls would let any icmp of any packet to go through
01:24 < revel> Nah, just tired.
01:24 < jml2> phogg, its saturday noob
01:24 < oiaohm> revel: http://www.unixist.com/security/data-transfer-over-icmp/index.html  << icmp abuse.
01:24 < phogg> jml2: and thanks to things like that dumb firewalls now just block all ICMP
01:24 < tds> oiaohm: I was more thinking of sending a ping to a specific v6 address to pick a destination :P
01:24 < phogg> jml2: what has that got to do with anything?
01:24 < jml2> phogg, saturday is for drunk day ya stupid jack butted monkey
01:24 < jml2> lol
01:25 < oiaohm> tds: most people don't think of icmp as a data protocol when reality it can be used like that.
01:25 < phogg> jml2: still not following you
01:25  * jml2 drinks more booze
01:25 < mawk> tds: I have a /48 prefix, that makes 10 bytes of data I can exfiltrate using an innocent-looking ping
01:25 < jml2> *hick*
01:26 < phogg> jml2: "go home, you are drunk" is just something you say to convey the idea that what someone has said or done is outside the bounds of normalcy. Not to be read literally.
01:26 < jml2> phogg, trump supporter
01:27 < phogg> oiaohm: let's send messages in Morse code via carefully timed (and sized) icmp packets!
01:27 < jml2> phogg, you butt monkey needs to find out where they sell dah booze
01:27 < phogg> you can encode data in anything
01:28 < ntd> anyone else using a docked thinkpad?
01:28 < tds> phogg: hmm, you could probably build a service to do something simple (eg multiplication) where you ping a certain v6 address and it replies with the result as the source address of the reply
01:28 < SporkWitch> ntd: If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later.
01:29 < phogg> tds: ipv6 affords all kinds of exciting opportunities.
01:29 < ntd> ok, haswell to kaby thinkpads use the ultra or pro dock
01:29 < SporkWitch> ntd: sounds like a google question
01:29 < phogg> tds: if you can do that *once* for multiplication you can collect a series of sequenced replies referencing different addresses and encode data *that* way
01:30 < ntd> for some reason kernel 4.15 broke dock-connected multidisplay
01:30 < ntd> haven't been able to find anything that works
01:30 < ntd> nomodeset does let me boot, displays stay on
01:30 < ntd> but no multimon
01:30 < tds> phogg: ooh, you could probably do it with answers in rdns (and a different source ip each reply) as well
01:30  * phogg should probably stop revealing evil supervillain plans
01:31 < oiaohm> phogg: really Morse code hidden in Time to live/Hop Limit in the IP header would be interesting.
01:31  * tds tries to think of a decent use for this
01:31 < SporkWitch> ntd: if i find time i'll test monday; i've got a thinkpad with i7-6600U and a dock in the office, can boot a kubuntu 18.04 liveusb if i make it in early or stay late
01:31 < phogg> tds: here's a scary thought: if you and I can think of it in 2 minutes now, *how many secret communication systems already use this technique*>
01:31 < SporkWitch> ntd: probably best if you can find some other resource, though
01:32 < phogg> tds: passing information without anyone knowing you're doing it, obviously. Who's inspecting packet headers for data?
01:32 < ntd> yeah, problem is during kernel boot (initramfs) displays go blank and the machine appears to freeze
01:33 < ntd> nothing to go on :)
01:33 < tds> heh, you could probably do a whois traceroute, where you trace to 2001:db8::8.8.8.8 and get back the whois for the v4 ip in the rdns records line by line
01:33 < SporkWitch> ntd: tried connecting to dock after boot?
01:33 < ntd> that works
01:33 < SporkWitch> ntd: checked logging to see specifically what is failing?
01:33 < ntd> boot with no dock, close the lid, connect to dock
01:34 < ntd> SporkWitch, when failing there is no display output
01:34 < ntd> and without being able to luksOpen logs are not written
01:34 < SporkWitch> ntd: i didn't ask for display output, i asked about logs
01:35 < SporkWitch> and that is why you should finish your thought before hitting enter, you'll get responses to partial information :P
01:36 < phogg> enter before done
01:36 < phogg> receive partial reply
01:36 < phogg> IRC is hard
01:36 < SporkWitch> ntd: what happens if you power it up while docked with the lid closed?  Thinkpads do bypass when connected to AC power, to preserve battery life; if it detects the dock and tries to toggle it while the lid is open it can act wonky, even in windows.  By having the lid closed, at least on windows, that resolves the wonkiness
01:37 < ntd> i usually try to power it up with the lid closed
01:38 < jml2> ntd, you should chek 1) bug reports, and 2) file it!! :P))
01:38 < jml2> irc IS hard, it took me years to know how to /join ##linux
01:38 < SporkWitch> ntd: could try a liveos, see if symptoms present and if they do check the logs there; won't have that luks issue
01:38 < jml2> finally figured it out!!
01:38 < SporkWitch> ntd: might also look into a solution for logging before luks opens; logs are kind of important
01:39 < Azrael_-> hi
01:40 < Azrael_-> i try to use dropbear to provide ssh-access to unlock an encrypted root partition. currently it only accepts ssh-keys for authentication, can i change it so i can use user+pass? (using debian)
01:44 < uplime> Azrael_-: why wouldn't you want ssh keys?
01:45 < Azrael_-> because i want to have the option to unlock everything with just the data i can remember
01:45 < Azrael_-> and i haven't found a way yet to reliable remember/enter an ssh-key
01:47 < Azrael_-> is my request that outrageous?
01:47 < jml2> Azrael_-, I remember you! you changed your nick! lol
01:48 < jml2> Azrael_-, zzero1, -- ah wait you two are different .. ah ok
01:48  * jml2 was looking for the *evil twin*
01:49 < Azrael_-> he was doing nearly the same but wanted just some text output gone :)
01:49 < Azrael_-> i'm not that ambitious
01:49 < zzero1> I 'm still here
01:49 < zzero1> :P
01:50 < jml2> maybe zzero1 knows the answer to that
01:50 < jml2> slug of a question!!!
01:50 < zzero1> shoot
01:50 < Azrael_-> yay. i've set up dropbear in initramfs but i don't want to use ssh-keys but normal user+pass. how can i accomplish this?
01:50  * pnbeast shoots zzero1 to make him leave.
01:51 < zzero1> hahaha
01:51 < jml2> wouldn't make sense for a on-console passphrase as a fallback, because then what's the point of ssh-bear?  anyone can attempt-fail and then you no longer have access to ssh-bear
01:51 < Azrael_-> jml2: there is a limit of how often you can try to connect?
01:51 < jml2> Azrael_-, maybe yuo want to look at two-pass factor authentication with ssh
01:52 < zzero1> well what I ve done so far is that I use the ssh auth, but with a special key pair that comes from my gpg
01:52 < zzero1> monkeysphere
01:52 < Azrael_-> all this would require me to have someting else at hand beside the password in my head to get access. i hope i can avoid this
01:52 < jml2> iirc duo.com is the product that can do it good
01:53 < zzero1> however I would like very much to be able to extract the private key
01:53 < zzero1> ssh
01:54 < zzero1> that is created from the my gpg keypair
01:55 < Azrael_-> so it is impossible?
01:55 < zzero1> correction
01:55 < zzero1> I can export it but w/out a passphrase
01:55 < mawk> it's not impossible Azrael_-
01:55 < mawk> just configure it
01:57  * sauvin really really likes gimp 2.10
01:57 < zzero1> here https://serverfault.com/q/887769
01:57 < zzero1> This creates an RSA private key that SSH can understand, but with no passphrase.  To re-add a passphrase I use: $ ssh-keygen -p -f id_rsa
01:58 < jml2> Azrael_-, zzero1 https://duo.com/docs/duounix
01:58 < zzero1> It kinda defeats the whole export process :P
01:58 < Azrael_-> mawk: currently i'm just at a loss how to provide the credentials, so they are included into the ramdisk
01:59 < zzero1> it would be great if you could point me to a guide about smart cards to unlock a luks volume
01:59 < zzero1> treat me like a newbie in the smart card world
02:00 < zzero1> I have found this https://randomoracle.wordpress.com/2015/09/02/getting-by-without-passwords-the-case-for-hardware-tokens-part-i/
02:01 < zzero1> but I need a guide or wiki to introduce me into the hardware
02:01 < jml2> the rh docs cover tat
02:05 < zzero1> crap
02:05 < zzero1> sorry
02:06 < zzero1> polluting the channel
02:08 <@jim> no worries :)
02:09 <@jim> zzero1, you may want to ask on ##hardware? dunno for sure
02:11 < zzero1> thanks jim
02:11 < Azrael_-> that's crazy, i can't find any documentation which tells me how to enable password-authentication in dropbear, only how to disable it. either i'm too dumb or the question(s) i'm stating are too trivial/advanced :(
02:12 < ayecee> it's not normally something you have to enable
02:13 < zzero1> Azrael_-: you are not the ony one
02:13 < zzero1> we might not have searched enough
02:13 < ayecee> i rather wonder how it came to be disabled in the first place
02:13 < Azrael_-> yeah, but currently it seems like it is disabled by default or e.g. the password-file isn't included into the ramdisk and thus user+pass is automatically disabled
02:14 < Azrael_-> zzero1: regarding your lines you don't want. i'd probably just edit the source code and recompile it
02:14 < zzero1> Azrael_-: yes thought of that
02:14 < zzero1> thanks
02:14 < zzero1> I havent yet tested
02:15 < zzero1> because initramfs is just a bunch of scripts that cobble together a couple of binaries
02:17 < zzero1> Azrael_-: I thought of getting out of my comfort zone by learning shell expansion and applying regex
02:17 < zzero1> to delete old kernels from boot
02:21 < SporkWitch> combination of zsh, tmux, and ssh.  zsh and tmux on the local host, ssh into remote which starts its own zsh inside another tmux session.  Been using this for ages, but i've noticed that certain terminal emulators cause the bottle line of the display to be duplicated just above itself, as if every time the display repaints it moves everything on the screen up one line, while leaving the last line
02:21 < SporkWitch> wait long enough and the entire window is nothing but a bunch of tmux-powerline bars; anyone have any clue what could produce something like that?
02:21 < SporkWitch> it's only the tmux session on the remote that does this.  I do not believe the nesting is a factor, as symptoms are the same with tunnelier on windows (so only tmux and zsh sessions are on the remote)
02:27 < SporkWitch> symptoms in action: https://i.imgur.com/60HNLji.png
02:28 <@jim> wonder if it's some kind of interaction with terminal types between tmux and your terminal
02:28 < WishBoy> SporkWitch spam?
02:28 < ryouma> i want to test the speed of a block device.  bonnie++ is sort of inscrutable.  dd with various options to turn off cache etc, maybe?  or perhaps i should use hdparm?
02:29 < SporkWitch> jim: that's what i'm thinking, the question is where to start digging to figure out what exactly is going on
02:29 < SporkWitch> WishBoy: ?
02:29 < WishBoy> SporkWitch sorry Spork
02:29 < SporkWitch> WishBoy: didn't see the description in the previous messages? heh
02:29 < WishBoy> no
02:29 < WishBoy> :>
02:29 < pnbeast> zzero1, then you might want to know that it's sometimes considered rude to /pm strangers without permission.
02:30 < SporkWitch> WishBoy: with how much shit i give people for a link without info or just generally bad questions, you think i'd do that? :P
02:30 < SporkWitch> pnbeast: ♥ +g
02:30 < WishBoy> SporkWitch depends of your humor
02:30 < WishBoy> :>
02:31 < pnbeast> I don't normally bother with that, just if people are flooding/DOSing, somehow.
02:31 < ryouma> using rsync to copy just / is ridiculously slow.  i wodner if the thing is plugged in corectly of if it is a slow drive.
02:32 < zzero1> GTK, you certainly know to lighten up the mood
02:33 < n-iCe> Hi
02:33 < zzero1> It 's just if you cannot pm you wouldn't chat more privately
02:34 < zzero1> pnbeast: is this some kind of irc code of conduct, that I 'm unaware of ?
02:34 < WishBoy> ryjen scp are better than rsync?
02:34 < zzero1> like the using all caps ?
02:34 < WishBoy> ryouma scp are better than rsync?
02:35 < SporkWitch> pnbeast: some skiddie with way too much time on his hands didn't like getting called on his shit in ##security, started making dozens of accounts as they were banned and flooding me with gore and other loveliness; i've just left +g on, it saves a lot of headaches.  Same on discord, i only allow PMs from people on my friend list, and a very few servers that are nothing but people i know or know
02:35 < SporkWitch> understand basic etiquette
02:35 < n-iCe> Just bought a laptop, been out of the linux world for a while, would you recommend me any linux distro with maybe new features, I'm in a laptop.
02:35 < ripdisk> anybody with a little patience wanna help me figure out why all my emails from my personal server get marked as spam???
02:35 < SporkWitch> n-iCe: i use kubuntu for my workstations
02:35 < pnbeast> zzero1, it's common here, maybe in some of the more rarified networks it's more acceptable or common.  Here we mostly just use it to talk about new people behind their backs.
02:35 < bookworm> n-iCe: pick any you like... generally ubuntu is a nice beginners distro
02:36 < SporkWitch> ripdisk: really good tool https://www.mail-tester.com/
02:36 < n-iCe> bookworm: good for laptops?
02:36 < bookworm> yes
02:36 < SporkWitch> ripdisk: and obviously you should be setting up SPF, DKIM, and DMARC
02:36 < bookworm> although the distro probably doesn't care
02:36 < pnbeast> SporkWitch, what I most commonly have seen here is that spammers will use /pms to try to avoid kbs or maybe klines.  But it seldom lasts very long for them.  Little bots join and then spam you each time you speak.
02:37 < zzero1> that's annoying
02:37 < SporkWitch> pnbeast: that must have started being a thing after i enabled +g lol
02:37 < zzero1> +g ?
02:37 < zzero1> aka ?
02:37 < n-iCe> bookworm: ok, what about lubuntu
02:37 < bookworm> n-iCe: you can configure almost any distro to behave well on a laptop
02:38 < pnbeast> zzero1, that helps to keep you from /pming me.
02:38 < bookworm> lubuntu is ubuntu with a different default de, go for it if you like it
02:38 < SporkWitch> zzero1: it's not a standard IRC user mode, but on freenode it prevents people from PMing you unless you whitelist them or PM them first.  Instead of sending you a PM, it posts a single notice in the server status tab of your client saying that X tried to PM you
02:38 < zzero1> aha
02:38 < n-iCe> ok
02:38 < zzero1> thanks SporkWitch
02:39 < n-iCe> is ubuntu any way better now that use gnome?
02:39 < bookworm> depends on your view
02:39 < bookworm> I don't like gnome.. then again I don't have to use it either. You can install any DE you like
02:40 < zzero1> nice, so basically you become more less a channel stalker
02:40 < bookworm> "channel stalker" ? WTF
02:40 < SporkWitch> how is that a channel stalker? and i think the term you're looking for is "lurker."
02:41 < SporkWitch> there's almost never a reason to use PMs anyway; you should be asking for and providing support in public where others can benefit from it
02:41 < bookworm> lurker is just someone who isn't talking, nothing wrong with that... imagine all 2000 people in here talking, now that'd be fun
02:41 < pnbeast> bookworm, I have the home address, spouse, job and license plate of over 890 of the people here.  I'm getting yours, now.
02:41 < bookworm> have fun
02:41 < SporkWitch> lol
02:41 < bookworm> kindly inform me of my licence plate once you find it
02:41 < pnbeast> bookworm:  Peter Andrews, 38 Northside Drive, Atlanta, GA, employed by General Dynamics, VW Beetle plate GEN-11.
02:42 < zzero1> neat
02:42 < bookworm> almost, it's a red smart
02:42 < zzero1> pnbeast:
02:42 < pnbeast> I was close.
02:42 < SporkWitch> hehe, i have a friend that used to work IA for GD
02:43 < zzero1> that is what is what i was talking about :chuckling :
02:44 < zzero1> I meant a lurker with more evil intentions, hehe
02:45 < zzero1> bookworm: hehe I like fun
02:47 < bookworm> I don't think that lurking in a public channel can be considered evil... nothing much you can do anyways... And even if you could, most of the logs are publicly available even if you aren't in the channel
02:47  * bookworm shrugs
02:49 < ryouma> was going to say that one cannot really lurk evilly but one can as one can post logs puiblically (dunno what channel rules are) or (if one is a corp) try to correlate user activity with whatever
02:50 < SporkWitch> regardless of rules, you can't stop people logging and can't identify which user posted them (not realistically, anyway)
02:50 < SporkWitch> the law won't help you either, as it's a public forum
02:51 < SporkWitch> there's no expectation of privacy
02:51 < bookworm> what he said ^
02:52 < bookworm> who expects privacy on a public channel anyway, that's nuts
02:52 < zzero1> oh come on guys, I meant metaphorically, or psychologically.
02:52 < zzero1> You pick any of the above
02:52 < zzero1> :D
02:53 < zzero1> I plus I do enjoy when others pick my brain
02:55 < SporkWitch> bookworm: never underestimate stupid
02:55 < zzero1> and answer questions in a predictive manner
02:55 < pnbeast> bookworm, I was hoping someone would look up the license plate.  I thought it was a nice touch.
02:55 < SporkWitch> bookworm: especially in september
02:56 < bookworm> you should all drink less
02:56  * pnbeast sets down his rum and Coke and ponders life without it, just for a second.
02:57 < t-ask> Hi, I'm thinking about running one service on two physical servers the same time (game server). If goes off the other taes place. WHat's the search terms I need to look for?
02:58 < t-ask> /s/If goes off the other taes place/If one goes offline, the other one takes place
02:58 < ryouma> tae?
02:58 < ryouma> load balancing or something maybe
02:58 < ryouma> failover?  redundancy?
02:59 < t-ask> Not sure, as the server service is a running mono server... and probably both servers need to be in sync all the time
03:00 < ananke> t-ask: short answer: if your application doesn't support such thing, then you won't be able to do it.
03:00 < t-ask> ananke: ok, so it is important then the app layer support this
03:03 < t-ask> Then another question regarding DDoS. Putting a Linux server using synprxy in front of the Windows server is that a good start?
03:03 < bookworm> it's a very hard problem, so few do
03:03 < pnbeast> t-ask, it's off-topic, but you might want to investigate OBSD's CARP a little bit.  The problem you'll face, though, is loss of state.
03:03 < stevendale> Hey
03:04 < t-ask> pnbeast: ok, loss of state is not that important if I could keep the "timeframe" < 1h
03:04 < t-ask> pnbeast: btw. why is it OT, just that I know for future requests
03:05 < pnbeast> t-ask, this is a channel about Linux, not CARP.
03:05 < t-ask> pnbeast: I see.
03:06 < Azrael_-> grrrr, erasing data when setting up encryption takes ages :(
03:07 < bookworm> depends on how you do it, but yeah... it's a lot of IO
03:07 < bookworm> take it as a learning to never ever do it like this again
03:08 < bookworm> better would have been to immediately create a encrypted container once you got the computer
03:08 < Azrael_-> currently i'm doing it using the debian installer. no idea how it is done in the backend
03:08 < Azrael_-> that's what i'm currently doing
03:08 < bookworm> then why erase non existing data?
03:09 < bookworm> you can just disable that option
03:09 < Azrael_-> i assume it also initializes the disks with random data, so it is more difficult to determine how much is stored
03:09 < bookworm> meh, I don't care about that
03:09 < phct> hello
03:09 < phct> im trying to run spidy web crawler script but i get an error complaining about the robots.txt , it seems that when it starts it crawls some wikipedia sites but if i put sites inside crawler_todo.txt it does not work, can anyone help?
03:09 < bookworm> you'd still need to decrypt the stuff which is filled
03:09 < phct> https://github.com/rivermont/spidy
03:10 < phct> can someone help?
03:10 < Azrael_-> bookworm: granted, stopped it :)
03:10 < bookworm> phct: it respects the robots.txt, now some sites don't want you to crawl them
03:10 < phct> what can i do then?
03:10 < bookworm> respect the robots.txt and not crawl this site
03:11 < ryouma> some sites provide their content in a tar file or so
03:11 < bookworm> or, alternatively, patch the crawler code to not care (illegal)
03:11 < ryouma> /literally/ illegal?
03:11 < bookworm> depends on the country
03:12 < ryouma> i agree with not crawlign the site.  and you could get in trouble.  but literal laws?
03:12 < bookworm> at the very least you can get you ip banned, which will be a hassle
03:12 < bookworm> s/you/your
03:13 < ryouma> i did a chroot on a device, mounting /sys /dev /proc, but /sys did not umount.  but i don't think i am still in the chroot.  if i try to umount it, it says in use.  "systemd-l 1299 root    6r   REG   0,14     4096 3763 /sys/devices/virtual/tty/tty0/active".  why is systemd still using it?
03:14 < t-ask> pnbeast: I found UCARP but it looks like its lat update was 7 years ago. MAybe you nknow if it is still present.
03:15 < tds> phct: if by "wikipedia sites" you mean actual wikipedia, they publish db dumps that you can download and then extract data from as required locally
03:18 < t-ask> ANyways, I guess UCARP is what I was looking for if the redunant hosts are of a different OS than Linux. THanks
03:32 < dr4ken> hey guys, anybody here does use actively trisquel?
03:33 < dr4ken> hey guys, anybody here does use actively trisquel?
03:34 < gajop> Hello, I'm having some issues with my PC, and it seems like it might be HW or driver related, and I'd like to isolate the issue. What information should I look for?
03:36 < oplevunus> gajop: Have you looked into the kernel log for anything?
03:36 < stevendale> Depends what the issue is gajop
03:36 < stevendale> Have you tried restarting it?
03:36 < gajop> Kernel log has a lot of nasties. I'll post it in a second
03:36 < gajop> Yeah, I also tried a fresh install on a different disk
03:40 < gajop> Here's one
03:40 < gajop> https://pastebin.com/KnPqhB9B output of my dmesg, of a running system
03:41 < gajop> I don't know how to use journalctl to get the previous output when everything froze
03:45 < gajop> I'll try now with 396 drivers to see if it fixes things
03:45 < oplevunus> gajop: Does it also hang with the nouveau driver instead of the nvidia driver?
03:46 < gajop> I'll try. But honestly wouldn't want to rely on that. Nvidia driver used to work before
03:46 < gajop> I'm thinking something got damaged while I was moving
04:00 < gajop> Here's the last freeze with 396 drivers https://hastebin.com/nohibohala.scala
04:13 < gajop> I'm not getting any driver errors with nouveau, when running it from an USB install. But my screen still froze
04:13 < Bashing-om> gajop: maybe best to show the channel ' sudo lshw -C display ' in a pastebin . See what the card is and if a driver is loaded .
04:14 < gajop> I did a memcheck so I'm pretty sure it's not the RAM. But how do I know which HW is the culprit? Matters a lot if I end up replacing the motherboard or the GPU
04:14 < Bashing-om> gajop: Here we only look at the graphic's .
04:15 < gajop> My gfx card is GeForce GTX 760, product name GK104
04:15 < gajop> There's also an integrated card
04:16 < gajop> Maybe I should unplug the GPU and see if my issues persist with just the integrated gfx
04:16 < curiousx> Hi there, suggest me a plugin like stylish to manage CSS themes for websites please
04:17 < Bashing-om> gajop: Please comply with the request to pastenin the lshw output . We then get a better picture if what is going or not going on .
04:17 < cr1t1cal> would it be possible to make a universal package manager?
04:17 < cr1t1cal> that works on every distro?
04:17 < n-iCe> bookworm: I'm downloading Debian, netinstall, what do you think?
04:17 < n-iCe> Keep reading Debian is very stable.
04:19 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: yes stable and testing versions are very stable
04:19 < sauvin> Hrm. Flatpak seems to establish a '/newroot' hierarchy, and I would like to navigate to it on a shell *not* in flatpak. Anybody have any clues how to do this?
04:19 < ryouma> it's stable yeah
04:19 < n-iCe> cr1t1cal: I'm downloading the stable version anyway.
04:19 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: i personally have never used unstable versions though
04:19 < cr1t1cal> okay
04:19 < cr1t1cal> for server use or for personal use?
04:20 < n-iCe> I'm not sure what DE I want.
04:20 < n-iCe> cr1t1cal: personal use, just bought a laptop.
04:20 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: uhh
04:20 < Casper> hi there, does anyone know if there is a way to select different optimisation for nfs for different interfaces?
04:20 < n-iCe> is it good for laptops cr1t1cal ?
04:20 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: stable releases are a bit too slow for personal use imho
04:20 < Casper> like packet size..
04:20 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: i suggest testing
04:20 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: its almost as stable but with quicker release/updates
04:20 < cr1t1cal> thats what i use for personal use. up to you
04:21 < n-iCe> oh, really?
04:21 < n-iCe> weekly builds?
04:21 < gajop> Bashing-om: sorry, already took the card out. The output wasn't that informative
04:22 < gajop> Trying the integrated card now
04:22 < Bashing-om> gajop: Might want then to also purge the nvidia driver (??) .
04:22 < n-iCe> which distro is the one who uses the lastest packages out there.
04:23 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: yeah just about.
04:23 < gajop> Good thing is, the dmesg output seems much better this time. All apparent issues are gone.
04:23 < gajop> Already purged, thanks
04:23 < n-iCe> cr1t1cal: ok, downloading testing, Do you like Ubuntu?
04:23 < gajop> Oh but nope. System froze again
04:25 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: no. bloated/proprietary stuff
04:25 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: install Debian without anything (except for standard system utilities maybe, but i dont even include that)
04:25 < oplevunus> gajop: Does staying on a raw tty give you any messages or a kernel panic?
04:25 < n-iCe> cr1t1cal: ok, so you use debian testing, right?
04:25 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: then set up window manager etc. from there. much control
04:25 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: yes
04:26 < n-iCe> cr1t1cal: ok, what DE do you recommend?
04:26 < n-iCe> I don't want something heavy big
04:26 < n-iCe> I like it small and neat
04:26 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: me too
04:26 < n-iCe> And what do you use?
04:27 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: fluxbox is nice and smooth, i prefer it over something like openbox which needs a lot of weird configuring imo. both are lightweight though
04:27 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: however, being a bit of a keyboard warrior myself, i prefer to use tiling wms. I am currently using i3wm
04:27 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: there are others.
04:28 < sir_guy_carleton> how can you configure the desktop on a secondary monitor on kde plasma5?
04:28 < n-iCe> cr1t1cal: what about lxde
04:28 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: take a look at this for memory usage comparison: https://l3net.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/cmp-all4.png
04:28 < ryouma> i use fluxbox
04:28 < n-iCe> how is it ryouma
04:28 < n-iCe> thanks cr1t1cal
04:29 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: yeah i guess that's alright. i don't ever use full blown DEs. I install WMs and install whatever extra shit I have to from there. normally you can just use terminal for everything
04:29 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: no worries ;)
04:29 < ryouma> n-iCe: it is the only wm out of tons that i tried that do what i need (des don't do what i need either)
04:29 < ryouma> does*
04:29 < gajop> oplevunus: let's see
04:29 < gajop> Nope
04:29 < gajop> The cursor just stops blinking
04:29 < sir_guy_carleton> are there any tiling wm that work well with virtualbox?
04:30 < n-iCe> any software to make the usb bootable? in Windows.
04:30 < cr1t1cal> ryouma: yeah. it has a status bar by default that is minimalistic. openbox doesn't have that
04:30 < cr1t1cal> ryouma: requiring extra software like tint2.
04:30 < gajop> Dunno if it counts as a raw tty or not, it was just one of the ttys
04:30 < ryouma> fluxbox has a slit, wihch you can use to autohide gkrellm
04:31 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: Universal USB Installer
04:31 < oplevunus> gajop: Probably, I just made that term up
04:31 < ryouma> and an autohide taskbar etc.
04:31 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: UNetBootin
04:31 < pankaj> Are their any risks related to recompiling the kernel?
04:31 < irwiss> that graph seems oddly suspicious tbh, as if it's from a few years ag
04:31 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: are you going to dual boot?
04:31 < irwiss> o*
04:31 < oplevunus> Important was just that it wasn't the X11 session or wayland or anything
04:31 < [R]> pankaj: it can make your computer explode
04:31 < n-iCe> cr1t1cal: no, I want linux in the whole system.
04:31 < blurry_light> don't use Unetbootin ... with Windows, use Rufus with the dd option
04:31 < blurry_light> with Linux, use dd
04:32 < axdoomer> I have a device that I connect to my computer. It loads a kernel module automatically (the driver). I need to pass a module parameter to it to enable the debug mode. How can I make it so that a parameter is passed automatically? I could unload the module and reload it, but the device doesn't behave correctly when I do this.
04:32 < pankaj> [R]: I do not know what to say. Is this a joke or anything else?
04:32 < gajop> The crashes seem to be happening more frequently now. What was 15mins is now below 1min
04:32 < n-iCe> Ok, done, using rufus dd mode.
04:32 < gajop> Either the HW combo is worse or there are some other issues
04:32 < gajop> Can I check the temperature somehow?
04:32 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: so you are gonna wipe windows?
04:33 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: or install on a different pc?
04:33 < n-iCe> cr1t1cal: yes.
04:33 < n-iCe> remove windows.
04:33 < gajop> CPU is 56 degrees, is that OK?
04:33  * triceratux makes [R] explode
04:33 < pnbeast> I recompiled my kernel and I had seven years of bad luck.  I'm actually only on year five, now, so two to go.
04:34 < n-iCe> done, gonna reboot and install linux :) thanks cr1t1cal
04:35 < oplevunus> gajop: It should be OK
04:35 < ryouma> i used to program many years ago.  when people talked about compiling their kernels, i assumed they meant they wrote and compiled their own kernel software.  i didn't understand that they were compiling the standard kernel, but they called it their kernel for whatever reason.
04:36 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: good luck
04:36 < cr1t1cal> n-iCe: make sure you backup your windows files just in case haha
04:36 < oplevunus> You can use lm-sensors to read some sensor values
04:37 < supernovah> Hey how can you list devices in a subsystem using something like udevadm, instead of for example listing devices in /sys/class/<subsystem> ?
04:37 < [R]> ryouma: https://nedroidcomics.tumblr.com/image/41879001445
04:37 < gajop> I'm out of ideas. Should I just assume my motherboard is broken and try to get a replacement?
04:37 < [R]> gajop: yes
04:37 < gajop> Or hmm, maybe try to update the bios as a last resort
04:38 < gajop> Thanks [R]
04:38 < oplevunus> gajop: I really wouldn't try to update the bios on an unstable system
04:39 < gajop> Do you have another suggestion? I don't think it's Linux being broken
04:39 < gajop> Idk how to check if MB is broken or not
04:39 < supernovah> run a test cd and see if all components are error-free?
04:40 < oplevunus> Maybe try reseating the components if you haven't already done that, or selectively try to remove hardware that isn't vital
04:40 < ryouma> can i make a gpt external drive that boots on my legacy bios computer, without too much hassle?  is there a good guide someplace?
04:40 < gajop> It freezes when I boot from a USB stick too
04:40 < gajop> Hmm ok, I'll remove the drives and go with just the motherboard and USB stick
04:40 < pankaj> [R]: Hello.
04:41 < [R]> ryouma: boots directly? if you set up a grub bios boot partition and your computer is capable of booting from the device
04:42 < ryouma> yeah just normal booting from /boot and a separate /root
04:42 < ryouma> but idk what one does to set up a bios boot partition
04:42 < ryouma> i did leave a partition open just in case
04:42 < [R]> well, sounds like you've got some googling to do
04:43 < ryouma> and i set the boot flag using fdisk
04:43 < ryouma> (even tghough gpt)
04:43 < [R]> any sane dist will just do it for you
04:43 < jml2> grub-pc can boot gpt with a special bios_grub partition -- only 1 meg is needed
04:44 < jml2> (if doing bios->boot gpt)
04:44 < ryouma> i'll try arch wiki
04:44 < ryouma> (using debian)
04:47 < curiousx> lmao, why won't you use Arch ryouma ?
04:47 < curiousx> Arch is love brother
04:47 < ryouma> i don't believe in incest
04:47 < ryouma> also, debian wfm
04:48 < curiousx> ok
04:48 < ryouma> i commend those who use arch.  they hav a great wiki.
04:48 < jml2> it's Gnu/Debian
04:48 < curiousx> indeed!!!
04:48 < jml2> the Gnu has you
04:48 < ryouma> is debian any more gnu than arch?
04:48 < curiousx> best wiki in da business baby
04:49 < ryouma> agreed
04:49 < jml2> I heard gamer of the century uses arch
04:49 < jml2> the guy who beat pacman
04:49 < saltlake> When we connect through vpn to other network, do we other network's bandwith then?
04:49 < curiousx> Well, i don't becouse never used debian as a desktop distro
04:49 < jml2> pacman could never be beaten because there was a "glitch" XD
04:49 < curiousx> i only used it couple of time as a server
04:49 < jml2> LOL
04:50 < [R]> saltlake: well your packets have to get to the vpns network...
04:50 < intx> anyone here successfully using a pci-e usb 3.0 card with linux? what chipset does it use?
04:50 < jml2> intx, LOL
04:50 < saltlake> [R]: But do we consume other network's bandwith?
04:50 < jml2> intx, there's more than 1 type of chipset for pci-e things :P
04:51 < intx> jml2: yes, which is why I'm asking
04:51 < saltlake> [R]: Will it cost for other network?
04:51 < [R]> saltlake: well, once the packets get there... they have to get to their destination...
04:51 < jml2> intx, make sure you have hci loaded
04:52 < jml2> intx, (module)
04:52 < intx> I haven't purchased one yet, I just want to buy one that I won't have issues with.
04:53 < jml2> intx, it also depends on how compatible your motherboard can behave with it as well
04:54 < ryouma> in fdisk i marked /boot as bootable.  should i have marked the bios boot partition instead?
04:54 < supernovah> What's the accepted way to discover what usb serial devices are plugged into the system? just ls /sys/bus/usb-serial/devices?
04:54 < [R]> supernovah: sure
04:54 < [R]> or ust look in /dev
04:55 < supernovah> but you can force devices to create their devpaths as whatever you like so I think that's unreliabl
04:55 < supernovah> by making a rule
04:55 < curiousx> ryouma: Are you installing Debian a la EFI ?
04:55 < pnbeast> Are you worried about being attacked by malicious Hayes modems, supernovah?
04:55 < ryouma> i have a legacy bios machine.  i have an extgernal drive that i just formatted using fdisk as gpt.
04:56 < ryouma> but yeah debian will be running on it
04:56 < ryouma> boot and root partitions, plus that bios boot whatever thingie
04:56 < [R]> [07:43:32] <[R]> any sane dist will just do it for you
04:56 < pnbeast> [R], arch is love, brother.
04:56 < [R]> pnbeast: lol
04:57 < ryouma> [R]: i am not /installing/ to it.  if i were doing so, maybe debian would do it for me.
04:57 < supernovah> does ls not have null delimination?
04:58 < [R]> supernovah: what?
04:58 < jml2> intx, https://www.amazon.com/Inateck-Express-Including-SuperSpeed-Connector/dp/B073NZFM9V?th=1
04:58 < ryouma> supernovah: ls is for the user
04:58 < ryouma> supernovah: use find or so
04:58 < pnbeast> supernovah, the output of ls is odd and it's probably not best to pipe it into other things, if you can avoid it.
04:59 < intx> jml2: ty
04:59 < curiousx> ryouma: are you using Arch's wiki to install Debian ? -.-
04:59 < jml2> intx, there's a nice type c port
04:59 < supernovah> pnbeast: so I was told which is why im asking
04:59 < ryouma> curiousx: nope
04:59 < curiousx> Ok :p
04:59 < ryouma> i am using arch wiki to just get the hardware to boot
04:59 < ryouma> then debian, which is on boot and root, will take over
05:00 < jml2> ryouma, yeah but you dont need arch wiki when I told ya how to do it :p
05:00 < ryouma> and if this gets too annoying i will redo the whole thing in mbr
05:00 < jml2> LLOL
05:01 < jml2> ryouma, of course dont forget to set hte bios_grub "active"
05:05 < cmj> GRUB_DEFAULT=saved
05:05 < ryouma> jml2: you told me it was possible.  scrollback does not seem to contain your telling me the steps to do it.  at least here.
05:05 < ryouma> set active?  in fdisk?  is this the bottable flag?
05:06 < jml2> anything that can enable the boot flag can do..
05:06 < ryouma> grr WHY does systemd still want to use my chroot /sys mountpoint?  why does it run /sys/devices/virtual/tty/tty0/active?
05:06 < jml2> cuz
05:07 < jml2> ,/sys is not an actual filesystem
05:07 < ryouma> i just want to umount it
05:07 < jcarder_> Resized my linux file system with cfdisk, unbeknowest to me this does a lot of damage. I resized it back to its original size but I am still having problems. When I boot up it shows a blank screen and cursor (a display manager doesn't even show up). Apt and dpkg are also damaged, anyway I can fix this? thanks in adcane.
05:07 < jml2> you're doing it wrong.. you should be using "mount --bind "
05:07 < curiousx> ryouma: I've Never installed Debian, but just make /boot partition, a /root partition, a swap partition, and a /home partition :p
05:07 < jml2> the debian "rescue" (from installer) can do this for you automatically (reboot with the rescue option after you set the bootflag on bios_grub)
05:07 < [R]> jcarder_: you could try runing fsck... but you probably corrupted it
05:07 < ryouma> i am using mount --bind
05:08 < jcarder_> [R]: yeah I've already done that and nothing changes
05:08 < jcarder_> im on kubuntu 18.04 btw
05:08 < jml2> ryouma, but you did it wrong, you missed /sys, /proc as well
05:08 < [R]> jcarder_: well, sounds like you learned a great lesson
05:08 < jcarder_> indeed
05:08 < curiousx> the /boot partition make it like 512 mb and mark it as: EF02  which is 'bios boot partition'
05:08 < jml2> ryouma, mount --bind /sys /mntpoint/sys
05:08 < jml2> ryouma, mount and for /proc
05:09 < ryouma> jml2: i mounted dev proc sys.  i umounted all three.  but sys did not umount because systemd is using it.  for unknown reasons.
05:09 < jml2> ryouma, then chroot /mntpoint/
05:09 < ryouma> yeah i did that except with dev also
05:09 < ryouma> but i cannot umount /sys
05:10 < jml2> ryouma, then kill those processes or just reboot.. the end-scripts should unmount the mountpoint properly
05:10 < jml2> ryouma, i presume you did update-grub and grub-install /dev/[drive]
05:10 < jcarder_> [R]:  also I can't access any of my data as I encrypted the home dir when I first installed kubuntu (which was stupid), and ecryptfs isn't working
05:10 < curiousx> I'm sure Debian has a guide on its wiki
05:10 < curiousx> about installing it
05:10 < supernovah> how can you stop find outputting the directory it starts the search in
05:11 < jcarder_> am I screwed?
05:11 < [R]> jcarder_: sounds like its corrupt
05:11 < pnbeast> jcarder_, did you make regular backups of all your important data?
05:11 < cmj> supernovah: maxdepth?
05:11 < jml2> jcarder_, you're screwed if you don't practice how to unscrew
05:11 < jml2> jcarder_,  you should of figured this out long time ago
05:11 < [R]> supernovah: mindepth
05:11 < jcarder_> pnbeast: sadly not
05:11 < curiousx> When i install Arch i use youtube vids (:p), the wiki (a little bit), and help on IRC :D
05:11 < ryouma> supernovah: mindepth
05:11 < jcarder_> jml2: lol
05:12 < jcarder_> is there any tools that have the slightest chance to unscrew me?
05:12 < jml2> jcarder_, well there's least to worry... i have copy of your data
05:12 < jcarder_> i would do pretty much anything to get my data back
05:12 < jml2> jcarder_, but then you need to pay me..
05:12 < jcarder_> jml2: name a price
05:12 < supernovah> ryouma: ya got it thx [R] too
05:13 < jml2> jcarder_, you house, car and little pussy cat on the couch
05:13  * jml2 }:)))
05:13 < pnbeast> Hey, everyone without backups!  Pay attention!  Tonight, jcarder_ will be our master of ceremonies as we celebrate the ease and convenience of computing without backups!  It promises to be a fun-filled, exciting and educational show.
05:13 < jcarder_> jml2: sure, I'll just mail it whats your address
05:13 < oplevunus> jcarder_: Before you try anything, I would clone the disk to something else
05:13 < pressure679> Anyone optimizing the Linux integration of a distro or more?
05:14 < [R]> pressure679: optimizaing the integration?
05:14 < pnbeast> [R], you didn't optimise your integration?
05:14 < ryouma> i think you can use parallelograms for that
05:14 < jcarder_> pnbeast: lmao
05:14 < gajop> Well this is silly. I removed all the drives and booted Ubuntu with just the MB and USB and it didn't freeze
05:14 < jcarder_> oplevunus: ok
05:15 < gajop> So now I'm left with either sata cable/connector issues or drives causing the MB to crash
05:15 < gajop> There are never simple problems are there >.>
05:16 < cmj> only solutions
05:16 < jcarder_> am I completely and utterly screwed or is there something I can try? If I'm &*%^ed then I'm wiping everything and reinstalling kubuntu.
05:16 < Bashing-om> gajop: Spinning drives or solid state ?
05:16 < gajop> Bashing-om: two SSDa and one HDD
05:17 < gajop> SSDs*
05:17 < Bashing-om> gajop: make sure in Bios that AHCI remains set .
05:17 < gajop> What's that?
05:18 < gajop> SATA support? I'm sure it's on. MB doesnt have PATA options
05:18 < oplevunus> jcarder_: I won't recommend using it without a clone, but you could try extundelete (if your fs is ext)
05:19 < Bashing-om> gajop: AHCI: Advanced Host Controller Interface .
05:19 < n-iCe> bookworm: Hi, I'm in Debian :)
05:19 < oplevunus> But I don't really know the extend of the corruption, so I can't tell
05:19 < jcarder_> oplevunus: ok, thanks for the advice
05:26 < gajop> Bashing-om: oke. Well it's in - by default
05:29 < Bashing-om> gajop: Good - AHCI is required for SSDs , Install an SSD and see what you have, install the 2nd SSD and test .. all good then install a Hard drive and see the freezes :(
05:34 < gajop> Bashing-om: i just got a freeze with only one SSD, but it happened after some time. Kinda hard to predict
05:34 < gajop> So I'm trying again with just the USB
05:35 < gajop> Really think it's the MB. I had some freezes when I was in the BIOS settings
05:35 < gajop> Idk how to invoke the freeze though
05:37 < Bashing-om> gajop: I tell ya my story . Installed an SSD on this system and hard drives (2) became corrupted . I have not isolated to this time. y might at this time run file system checks on the SSD file systems and also run SMART tests .
05:38 < gajop> Well it can hardly be my HDD if the PC is freezing when it's unplugged
05:40 < Bashing-om> gajop: Well, agreed, not to say the booted USB is not corrupted . How about with a liveDVD ?
05:41 < gajop> I don't have a CD/DVD slot
05:41 < gajop> I've got a couple of USB sticks though
05:41 <@jim> gajop, how much space?
05:42 < gajop> It just doesn't feel like that's where the issue is.
05:42 < gajop> @jim: sorry what space?
05:42 <@jim> on the usb sticks
05:42 < gajop> Got 3 drives, RAM, USB, etx
05:43 < gajop> Ah, enough.  8GBs
05:43 <@jim> btw you should probably consider running a ram checker to rule out your core hardwar4
05:43 < gajop> Lolz the filesystem name is /cow
05:43 < gajop> I sid
05:43 < gajop> Did, Rams fine
05:44 <@jim> does the machine do this in just one situation (for example just with linux)?
05:45 < gajop> I only have Linux
05:45 <@jim> and, how did the install go? (or did you install)
05:46 < gajop> Install went fine. Crashes happened after that
05:46 < gajop> Well not crashes. Freezes. They happened when I started properly using it.
05:47 <@jim> that pretty much puts the problem most likely at what you installed
05:47 < gajop> At first it took a couple of minutes, but then they became more frequent
05:47 <@jim> and this was while running the linux?
05:47 < notmike> Probably Debian
05:48 <@jim> yeah that's what I'm thinking too, but it's up to him
05:48 < ||JD||> notmike: don't start that fuckery again
05:48 < gajop> I was running Ubuntu. Worth adding that my existing install also had trouble booting/not-freezing
05:48 <@jim> ||JD||, watch the language please
05:49 < notmike> ||JD||: bro, I'm your friends. Other trolls see me here and they know not to troll you because I'm the biggest troll there is.
05:49 < notmike> I'm like troll repellant
05:50 <@jim> wonderful. large trolls.
05:50 < gajop> I'm just confused why you'd think it's software
05:51 <@jim> gajop, well, you say the install went ok
05:52 < gajop> Yeah but at first the freezes took quite some time to happen
05:52 < gajop> So maybe I was just lucky
05:52 <@jim> that kinda suggests temperature
05:52 < gajop> But CPU temp was OK :/
05:54 <@jim> well if that's not it, I'm stumpped... we could try to rule stuff out
05:56 <@jim> how much ram you got?
05:56 < gajop> I'll check the different drives and SATA ports
05:56 < gajop> 16GB iirc
05:56 <@jim> and is this a remote or is it the machine in front of you?
05:58 < gajop> It's in front of me of course. But unstable so I communicate on my phone instead
05:58 <@jim> oh ok... do you have some unpartitioned space left?
06:00 < gajop> Well I can make it. I don't have anything important on one of the SSDs
06:01 <@jim> wanna try debian to see if it isn't so unstable?
06:01 < gajop> Got a 512GB SSD (new, with Ubuntu 18.04), 128GB (Ubuntu 16.04), and a 4TB HDD with just an ext4 partition
06:02 <@jim> sounds like you have plenty of space... this can be a throwaway if that's what you decide to do
06:03 < gajop> I don't have Debian now and don't want to dl it with tethering. Tried to DL yesterday but it was so slow (admittedly I was going for the full DVDs which are like 12GB), and I didn't manage to get it in like 6hs
06:03 <@jim> you only need a 350mb image
06:04 <@jim> half a cd
06:04 < [R]> jim: you're 350mbs
06:04 <@jim> and you're the new joke you need!
06:04 < gajop> I'll consider Debian later. Don't see it fixing this - it's not like the DE is crashing
06:05 <@jim> I'd guess it's somehow the kernel
06:05 <@jim> but I have no idea really
06:06 <@jim> and, ok
06:06 < gajop_> back, sorry
06:06 <@jim> I'd guess it's somehow the kernel
06:06 < gajop_> Probably didn't read what you wrote
06:06 <@jim> but I have no idea really
06:06 < gajop_> I'm almost convinced it's the MB
06:06 <@jim> just that
06:07 <@jim> so, if you don't want to do that now, I dunno what else to try
06:08 <@jim> but (of course) what and when (etc) is up to you
06:08 < gajop_> Ok. I'll play with various SATA ports and drive combinations to try narrow it down
06:08 < gajop_> Then I'll just order a new MB if it all fails lol
06:08 < ||JD||> gajop_: have you already tried to boot the system with a live disk?
06:08 <@jim> could it be some kind of power situation?
06:08 <@jim> what kind of machine is it?
06:08 < gajop_> Idk, could it be PSU?
06:09 < gajop_> JD: it seems to work ok if no drives are plugged, but freezes if I plug in stuff I think
06:09 < gajop_> Eh you want me to give full details? -..-
06:10 <@jim> it's supposed to be safe to hotplug sata
06:11 < mouses> hi everyone - wondering if anyone has a second to look over this script - if the file is placed in the watched directory (in this case, /home/mouses/video) - the script fires just fine and does what it should - however if it's in /home/mouses/video/foo it does not - which is weird to me as I passed the -r flag onto inotifywait - anyone see what I screwed up here (also, some of the directery names/variables
06:11 < mouses> may not be SFW, warning) http://termbin.com/56e5
06:12 < gajop_> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kjZjK8
06:12 < gajop_> This is kinda my build except one less HDD and one more SDD
06:12 < ||JD||> gajop_: I guess do you have SATA mode on AHCI?
06:13 < gajop_> I do
06:14 < ||JD||> did you say your HDD was empty? I would try unplugging SSDs and installing something there
06:15 < gajop_> It's not
06:15 < pankaj> Is their a way to see images in a text based browser like elinks. I did the configuration as per its specification but still no image.
06:15 < gajop_> And I obviously would rather have an OS on the SSDs
06:16 <@jim> one thing it might be nice to know, does it crash when X is not running
06:17 < ||JD||> gajop_: I'm not suggesting you run that setup forever, just to troubleshoot your problem
06:19 < gajop_> It's just too much work, resizing the partitions and what not. And kinda worried it might freeze during that process and result in loss of data
06:23 < mouses> grrr this script is making me insane
06:23 < mouses> either the recursive part of inotifywait is broken, or I am stupid.
06:23 < mouses> Betting on the latter lol
06:24 < kbob> pankaj: try links or links2 that have also the -g option to go in graphic mode and is easy to setup
06:28 < pankaj> kbob: OK.
06:28 < ||JD||> my shitty ISP have had 7-10% packet loss rate for about a week
06:28 < pankaj> kbob: According to what I read links development has been stopped.
06:28 < ||JD||> welcome to the underdeveloped world baby
06:30 <@jim> mouses what's the script supposed to do?
06:30 < pankaj> kbob: So, if links have -g option for may be showing images then why it is not in elinks. I tried in elinks but it did not worked.
06:31 < mouses> jim: Basically, it watches for video files to show up in a watched directory - when the files show up, it calls ffmpeg to do some conversion to make them chromecast friendly, appends to the filename so I know it's fixed, moves the fixed file somewhere else, deletes the original file
06:31 < mouses> jim: works like a charm if the file is /home/mouses/video/foo.mkv - no action if file is /home/mouses/video/foo/bar.mkv
06:31 < fedorauser123952> i upgraded to the latest fedora a few weeks ago and since then i keep getting these freezes where nothing responds for several minutes. any idea why? it used to never happen before the upgrade. this is my dmesg  https://pastebin.com/cuqNNnq4
06:32 < kbob> pankaj: try links2
06:32 < pankaj> kbob: WHen using '-g' it says graphics not enabled while compiling.
06:33 < pankaj> kbob: I am now searching the source code or your advice.
06:33 < iodev> pankaj: -g as far as I remember is debugging symbols
06:33 < pankaj> iodev: With links browser?
06:33 <@jim> mouses, so, no action if the file appears in a subdir off /home/mouses/video/?
06:34 < iodev> oops, I thought you meant gcc, since you said compiling :D
06:34 < mouses> jim: correct
06:34 <@jim> ok, what's putting the file in the subdir?
06:34 < mouses> jim: same thing that's putting the file in the main dir - another process (in this case, nzbget)
06:35 <@jim> ok... why is it good to put the file in the subdir?
06:36 <@jim> plus be right back
06:36 < iodev> pankaj: sorry, I don't use links, try elinks
06:36 < mouses> jim: by default, nzbget is going to create a subdir for each thing - and disabling that feature is a absolute nightmare from what I can see
06:36 < kbob> -g     Run  Links  in  graphics  mode.
06:38 < pankaj> iodev: Yes, I am also using elinks. But when I am configuring .elinks.conf file as per the documentation online I am not getting the images shown.
06:39 < iodev> pankaj: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ELinks
06:40 < pankaj> iodev: OK.
06:41 < pankaj> iodev: OK. Trying once again.
06:41 < iodev> pankaj: wow! who knew! my site is viewable in elinks and works quite well (I didn't expect that from wordpress)
06:42 < pnbeast> I thought wordpress was a remote access program.
06:42 < pankaj> iodev: What? It is just a text based browser. Is elinks more powerful then just showing images?
06:43 < iodev> pankaj: yes, it got basic CSS support
06:43 < iodev> and you can use mpv to play youtube vid with it
06:43 < jim> mouses, ok, so then it might be what you have to live with... one way, that loop you got could do a "find" to get the file
06:44 < jim> mouses, another way, you might have a background process that moves files to the main dir and gets rid of the subdirs
06:45 < pankaj> iodev: I also want to learn how to do that. Please can you help. Is their any guide or article?
06:45 < pankaj> iodev: That is awesome. I will check that out.
06:45 < iodev> pankaj: I'm just reading the ArchWiki
06:46 < iodev> pankaj: all you need to do is follow that
06:46 < iodev> it explains everything useful about elinks, pankaj
06:48 < mouses> jim: Ahhhh!  I got it :)
06:48 < mouses> jim: well, I found the problem at least
06:48 < mouses> jim: so if I (user mouses) pops a file into a subdir there, everything works as expected
06:48 < mouses> but if the process NZBget puts a file there
06:48 < mouses> it does not
06:48 < mouses> and check out these perms
06:48 < mouses> -rw-r--r-- 1 nzbget sauce 620868765 May  5 09:15 VICE.S06E05.720p.HDTV.x264-aAF.mkv
06:48 < mouses> I'm a memeber of the sauce group
06:48 < Stuiterbal> wtf
06:49 < pankaj> iodev: OK.
06:49 < jim> that was weird
06:51 < Psi-Jack> Hah. No, what was wierd is, I just said "Hey Siri, set a timer for 15 minutes." and Siri on my phone responded with. "Okay, it's set. And the suspense is killing me..."
06:53 < jim> siri, siri, siri, do you time me...
06:54 < mouses> jim: thanks for the help, you got me in the right direction
06:54 < mouses> a simple umask is going to fix it :)
06:57 < jim> mouses, excellent
06:57 < jim> bee excellent without stinging
06:57 < mouses> jim: now to deal with the confusion that the daemon is running in a Gentoo prefix lol
07:11 < JackMa> hello, how can i terminate process that is created with : tmux new-session -d python file2.py
07:12 < sauvin> I'd do a ps aux | grep file2.py to see what its pid is.
07:13 < JackMa> sauvin: what is aux?
07:14 < sauvin> Don't remember, exactly. Been using that exact line for years without ever revisiting what I was thinking when I first started using it.
07:15 < JackMa> ok i see pid number, then what is next?
07:15 < sauvin> Try a kill $pid where $pid is the pid you see.
07:16 < JackMa> $pid?
07:16 < JackMa> what is $?
07:16 < sauvin> That was perl speak. Try it: kill <pid>, where <pid> is the pid you see.
07:16 < sauvin> (without the brackets)
07:17 < JackMa> yeah thanks
07:17 < JackMa> but i want to know what is aux?
07:17 < sauvin> man ps
07:17 < JackMa> lol aux
07:17 < JackMa> instead of ps
07:18 < fr0xk> I do not want to use rpm fusion, so is there any way to convert them to theora/vorbis? I am new to fedora
07:18 < fr0xk> the media codecs*
07:18 < JackMa> sauvin: ?
07:19 < JackMa> sauvin: i just use -9 like kill -9 pid?
07:19 < sauvin> I'd try a regular kill first.
07:19 < JackMa> what is -9?
07:20 < sauvin> It's very, very rude, and reserved for processes that just don't want to die.
07:20 < JackMa> you means force?
07:20 < JackMa> forcely?
07:21 < sauvin> It forces a process to die before it has a chance to clean up after itself, deallocate memory, close and flush files, that kind of thing.
07:22 < JackMa> anyway what is aux instead of ps?
07:22 < JackMa> sauvin: ?
07:23 < jim> aux are three parameters that ps reads
07:23 < nai> -9 is a synonym for -KILL, which sends SIGKILL (signal number 9)
07:23 < jim> a usual command is: ps aux
07:23 < JackMa> thanks
07:24 < pankaj> iodev: Now I understand. When I click on the image in elinks I get a dialog box which says to open the image but keeping in default this 'xdg-open' tool whose work is to open the default application whenever it sees a file (whose default application it knows). So, I have to manually type fbi (But I do not want to do this again and again).
07:24 < JackMa> nai: kill -9 pid == kill -KILL pid?
07:24 < jim> yes
07:24 < nai> yes
07:24 < JackMa> oh thanks :)
07:25 < jim> in fact, kill is somewhat misnamed, except for its effect. what kill -really- does, is it sends one of a handful of possible "signals" to a process
07:26 < JackMa> jim: then you means that ‘send -KILL pid’ is correct means?
07:26 < nai> it should have been named "signal"
07:27 < JackMa> ‘signal -KILL pid’ is correct contents?
07:27 < jim> many signals of this handful, can be "ignored" by the process, and many can be made to run code in the process
07:27 < nai> JackMa: what do you mean by correct?
07:27 < nai> these commands do not exist in a common linux system
07:28 < JackMa> ‘signal -KILL pid’ is correct expression than ‘kill -KILL pid
07:28 < jim> JackMa, yes, exactly.... that's the -meaning- of kill
07:28 < JackMa> thanks :)
07:28 < jim> (but, the -name- of that command, is kill
07:29 < jim> )
07:29 < fr0xk> so there is no way?
07:29 < JackMa> thanks
07:30 < nai> fr0xk: try #fedora
07:30 < fr0xk> nai: ok
07:33 < jim> JackMa, do you write C code?
07:33 < JackMa> no
07:33 < JackMa> i write python code
07:34 < JackMa> jim: why?
07:34 < notmike> culebra?
07:34 < jim> well if you did, I would have suggested the signal man page, and, it looks a little tough to read and understand
07:35 < JackMa> yeah i will try it
07:35 < JackMa> man command
07:35 < JackMa> :)
07:35 < notmike> you just need signal -9, signal -15, and kill
07:35 < notmike> everything else is redundant
07:35 < jim> JackMa, it describes in detail what a C program can do in response to a signal, including running one of the program's C functions
07:35 < hiya> Anyone from India here? Who uses Laptop as workstation?
07:35 < notmike> even though I think signal -9 maybe is kill
07:36 < nai> signal(7), that is
07:36 < SporkWitch> hiya: If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later.
07:36 < jim> notmike, there's more that can be done with kill :)
07:37 < notadeveloper> hey
07:37 < jim> hay's for horses
07:37 < jim> straw's cheaper
07:37 < jim> grass is free
07:38 < jim> buy a farm...
07:38 < SporkWitch> jim: not in california
07:38 < jim> get all three!
07:38 < nai> jim: you'll scare them
07:38 < hiya> SporkWitch, Sir, I found AMD 8-core laptop, is it good for ws? https://www.asus.com/in/Laptops/ROG-Strix-GL702ZC/specifications/
07:38 < jim> notadeveloper, hi
07:39 < granttrec> anyone now a good mp3 to ogg converter?
07:39 < jim> will ffmpeg do that?
07:39 < SporkWitch> hiya: that wasn't an invitation to ping me, that was guidance on how to ask a useful question.  That said, i'm quite fond of my GL703VM with GTX1060M
07:39 < notadeveloper> yo
07:39 < notadeveloper> coolies
07:39 < SporkWitch> hiya: i'd have preferred an AMD CPU, but the i7-7700 in it is admittedly a beast
07:40 < granttrec> jim: not sure I don;t use that program but ill check it out
07:40 < notadeveloper> oh SporkWitch
07:40 < hiya>  SporkWitch but its quad-core vs 8-core?
07:40 < SporkWitch> granttrec: https://lmgtfy.com/?s=d&q=good+mp3+to+ogg+converter
07:41 < BerenErchamion>  Is it safe to test Thunderbird with Unix MailSpool while running Linux on a Live CD?
07:41 < SporkWitch> notadeveloper: is there a reason you're pinging me?
07:41 < granttrec> SporkWitch: thats preetty good lol
07:41 < SporkWitch> granttrec: use a search query as a question, get a search engine as a response
07:42 < HelloFriend> Hi guys i'm trying to write a simple script to sort the top 20 more requested sites from an apache log, Any script expert give me an idea of what to use? awk?
07:42 < SporkWitch> hiya: ATI GPU drivers SUCK
07:43 < pnbeast> HelloFriend, use whatever language you like the most.
07:43 < SporkWitch> hiya: if you don't do anything graphics intensive, it's w/e, that IS a very good CPU, but you can reasonably expect headaches with the GPU drivers
07:43 < notadeveloper> oh for linux
07:43 < notadeveloper> newer kernel images have built in radeon drivers
07:44 < notadeveloper> you just have to pass an option to boot to it properly
07:44 < hiya> SporkWitch, ok but I don't think that model you mentioned in available in India
07:44 < SporkWitch> which is all well and good for non-graphics-intensive purposes; they're still poor compared to nvidia
07:44 < SporkWitch> hiya: nifty; you asked i answered
07:44 < jim> granttrec, take a look at: https://superuser.com/questions/273797/convert-mp3-to-ogg-vorbis
07:45 < SporkWitch> hiya: look up consumer reports or something if you want someone to be your personal shopper; this is a linux support channel
07:45 < hiya> i9-8950HK OMG - ROG-G703 with splinter all the beats in the market
07:46 < hiya> ok
07:47 < granttrec> Jim: ty, but I'm starting to t hink no point in changing the format that the media is already in other than the sake of uniform files
07:47 < jim> you're probably right
07:47 < jim> the people who would get the oggs or mp3s can convert them too
07:48 < SporkWitch> granttrec: you can potentially save space, but music files are so tiny compared to modern storage capacities
07:48 < notadeveloper> this is AMD
07:48 < notadeveloper> lolz
07:48 < notadeveloper> amd is cool
07:48 < notadeveloper> they can pack more cores on those credit card sized cpus
07:48 < notadeveloper> btw
07:49 < notadeveloper> compiling with those cores
07:49 < notadeveloper> is so freaking fast
07:49 < notadeveloper> -j 32 baby
07:49 < notadeveloper> thats why they call boost lib boost
07:49 < notadeveloper> mali boost
07:49 < SporkWitch> notadeveloper: don't spam
07:50 < notadeveloper> intel lover
07:50 < granttrec> SporkWitch: that and its not supported by iphone unforunatly
07:50 < pnbeast> notadeveloper, that one sentence was over 11 words.  Please press enter more often.  Try to make your thoughts run vertically on the screen.  Everyone loves that.
07:50 < SporkWitch> just the opposite, in fact; i despise intel, they're overpriced, dishonest, and tend towards anticompetitive business practices.
07:51 < notadeveloper> is there an apple music client for linux?
07:51 < hiya> notadeveloper, lol
07:51 < notadeveloper> there is one for android so i thought i might ask
07:52 < SporkWitch> notadeveloper: https://lmgtfy.com/?s=d&q=apple+music+client+for+linux
07:59 < stevendale> Hey
07:59 < notmike> hey
07:59 < notadeveloper> back and way ahead of you
08:06 < domhnall> ,,
08:18 < JackMa> tmux new-session -d python file.py  <— i did it 50 times, so i must do kill command 50 times, so i  just do ‘poweroff’, this is ok?
08:19 < ||JD||> JackMa: man killall
08:19 < JackMa> kill all
08:19 < JackMa> killall
08:19 < JackMa> 8)
08:20 < JackMa> i just do it like ‘killall’? ||JD|| ?
08:21 < JackMa>  i just type only ‘killall’? ||JD|| ?
08:22 < ||JD||> JackMa: RTFM
08:23 < JackMa> when i type ps, i just see only pas and bash
08:23 < JackMa> i run 50 tumux now
08:23 < JackMa> what’s wrong?
08:23 < Guy1524_> is this the right place to ask a quick question about git?
08:23 < nai> why the fuck do you have to run 50 tmux sessions
08:24 < JackMa> nai: i just do someting
08:24 < JackMa> :)
08:24 < nai> the question was what
08:25 < JackMa> how can i stop 50 tmux command?
08:25 < JackMa> nai: ?
08:25 < nai> JackMa: don't bother asking help on irc if you can't answer basic "what are you doing" questions
08:26 < JackMa> i just kill bash pid only?
08:26 < jim> nai, watch your language please
08:26 < jim> Guy1524_, sure... or, there is a #git here
08:27 < JackMa> i run 50 tmux command, so after commands, when i type  ps then i just see only bash pid
08:27 < JackMa> nai: then how can i kill 50 tmux command now?
08:27 < nai> sorry jim
08:28 < HelloFriend> i know i can use awk, but can i use grep and sed to get a link of top 20 url hits?
08:28 < JackMa> nai: ?
08:28 < SporkWitch> JackMa: man pkill
08:28 < JackMa> man pkill
08:29 < JackMa> help me plz
08:29 < JackMa> :(
08:29 < HelloFriend> what linux command can find duplicate part of a line?
08:30 < SporkWitch> HelloFriend: https://lmgtfy.com/?s=d&q=find+duplicate+part+of+a+line
08:41 < JackMa> nai: dude fuck off   <— nai invoke me :(
08:41 < JackMa> why?
08:43 < stevendale> !ops JackMa Seriously offensive language and disruptive behavior
08:43 < SporkWitch> stevendale: he was quoting the person
08:43 < JackMa> ||JD||: i did it with this command : killall -u jackmma, this is ok?
08:43 < DLange> JackMa: no idea what that was but keep swearwords to yourself
08:44 < SporkWitch> DLange: he was quoting nai
08:44 < SporkWitch> see slightly above
08:44 < sauvin> nai, tone it down.
08:44 < DLange> SporkWitch: thanks
08:44 < SporkWitch> JackMa: the correct tool is pkill; man pkill
08:44 < SporkWitch> DLange: yup; still stupid to repeat it, but he wasn't the one that cursed, as such
08:45 < JackMa> thanks SporkWitch but i did it with : killall -u jackma
08:45 < sauvin> o.O
08:45 < stevendale> Why would you do that JackMa
08:45 < stevendale> It'll take you to the login screen
08:46 < SporkWitch> JackMa: read the manpages for pkill and killall to see why the former was the correct solution and the latter was not
08:46 < JackMa> oh ok thanks then i will use pkill
08:46 < JackMa> pgrep, pkill -- find or signal processes by name
08:47 < JackMa> but i can do it with killall -u jackma
08:47 < SporkWitch> JackMa: don't just follow blindly; read and understand WHY
08:47 < JackMa> :(
08:47 < JackMa> yeah
08:47 < sauvin> No kidding. That's not something *I* would do.
08:49 < stevendale> sauvin: Especially since killing the user may leave data that is in the write cache unsynced, and could lead to data corruption
08:50 < JackMa> oh
08:50 < JackMa> then i use pkill? stevendale ?
08:50 < stevendale> Yeah, JackMa
08:51 < JackMa> thanks stevendale
08:51 < stevendale> Np :)
08:51 < JackMa> if i don’t write something. then i can use killall -u jackma?
08:51 < JackMa> stevendale: ?
08:52 < stevendale> Just don't use it :( And stop pasting it in the channel as it's got the potential to be very destructive, and people new to Linux like to run commands posted in here
08:53 < JackMa> :(
08:53 < JackMa> ok
08:53 < notmike> pkill JackMa
08:55 < jim> don't make fun of him please
08:57 < JackMa>  stevendale strange i can’t use pkill and command name? like : pkill python3 file.py?
08:57 < jim> ok, here's the deal...
08:57 < jim> when you run python3 file.py, it makes a process...
08:58 < JackMa> yeah jim
08:58 < SporkWitch> JackMa: process name, not command name
08:58 < stevendale> That's what the 'p' stands for
08:58 < SporkWitch> someone didn't read the man like he was told
08:58 < stevendale> Oh my god
08:58 < stevendale> My cat just caught a fly and then ate it :(
08:59 < JackMa> but i can’t terminate all process that is made by ‘python3 file.py’ SporkWitch
08:59 < jim> there may be ways of looking at that process to see what it's doing, but without some digging, you wouldn't be able to get that it's running file.py
08:59 < JackMa> i have 50 process, so i want to terminate it at once
08:59 < SporkWitch> JackMa: never said you could; that's what PIDs are for: to differentiate between multiple instances of the same process name
09:00 < jim> if you don't dig at all, you might be able to find out, that there are (for example) 2 python3s running, but, you won't get anything about which file they're running
09:01 < nai> stevendale: useless use of cat
09:01 < jim> say you ask, and it says "oh, here's two python3s running, and their pids are 123 and 124
09:01 < jim> "
09:02 < JackMa> yeah
09:02 < jim> all you know at the beginning is, 123 and 124
09:02 < stevendale> ps -A | less
09:02 < JackMa> oh jim but i use it like this : tmux new-session -d python3 file.py
09:03 < JackMa> 50 times
09:03 < stevendale> Or... ps -A | grep "python"
09:03 < jim> so, maybe you won't know, without digging in, what those pythons are doing
09:04 < nai> did anyone mention pgrep yet? "pgrep python3"
09:04 < jim> but who knows, if you dig in, maybe you can find out things about what 123 is doing, or about what 124 is doing
09:05 < JackMa> 3845 3847 3849 3851 3853 3855 ......
09:06 < JackMa> i want to learn linux well, then what tutorial is good?
09:07 < pnbeast> You will have to study a lot to learn Linux well.  One tutorial is not even a good beginning.
09:08 < JackMa> :(
09:08 < pnbeast> You could try the Rute tutorial.  You should probably read some bash tutorials, also.
09:08 < imchairmanm> I'm ten years in and still behind
09:08 < JackMa> Rute tutorial?
09:08 < JackMa> can you give me link? pnbeast ?
09:08 < pnbeast> I don't have a link.  Ask a search engine.
09:08 < jim> JackMa, the good thing is, here you are, and you're starting
09:08 < SporkWitch> JackMa: https://lmgtfy.com/?s=d&q=rute+tutorial
09:10 < bookworm> SporkWitch: why I do acknowledge that people are either to lazy or stupid to use a search engine, please don't use lmgtfy this often.
09:10 < JackMa> https://rlworkman.net/howtos/rute/
09:10 < SporkWitch> bookworm: when they stop asking google questions i'll stop responding with lmgtfy
09:10 < bookworm> Elitism is explicitly discouraged in the channel rules
09:10 < SporkWitch> bookworm: i even wrote a macro for it, just highlight the text and it generates a query, replacing spaces with + ^^
09:11 < SporkWitch> it's not elitism
09:11 < bookworm> great, you must be very inteligent
09:11 < bookworm> it happens that this isn't really the thing to do here, so don't
09:11 < jim> what we want to do instead, is show people how to do it
09:11 < bookworm> ^ this
09:11 < SporkWitch> precisely
09:11 < SporkWitch> which is EXACTLY what lmgtfy does
09:11 < bookworm> ...
09:12 < SporkWitch> he obviously was having a hard time figuring out how to use a search engine
09:12 < jim> SporkWitch, you made a good start when you suggest how to ask questions... it would be a good thing if after showing that factoid, you could demonstrate
09:12 < bookworm> and linking them to an ad ridden, condescending site is surely the right way to approach this
09:13 < SporkWitch> what ads?
09:13 < meingtsla> And what is condescending about it?
09:14 < SporkWitch> meingtsla: he's from the snowflake generation; anything short of doing everything for them is oppression and condescension
09:14 < SporkWitch> PS: THAT was condescending; lmgtfy is not
09:14 < bookworm> SporkWitch: I am probably not
09:14 < jim> meingtsla, the suggestion they can't type it by themselves
09:14 < bookworm> just say "google it" and be done with it
09:14 < SporkWitch> i did, with a helpful link that shows them how
09:15 < JackMa> can i get apologize from nai? because nai insult me :(
09:15 < jim> SporkWitch, it's kinda condescending :)
09:16 < SporkWitch> fine; not gonna stop though.  ask a google question, get a google answer
09:16 < jim> JackMa, it's much better to know: "no one can insult me without my permission"
09:16 < bookworm> or just stop caring what random internet people say
09:17 < bookworm> after all there are adults and all the lolz script kiddies in here
09:17 < JackMa> :(
09:17 < SporkWitch> bookworm: you're welcome to take your own advice; stop caring about telling people with google questions to google
09:17 < bookworm> ignore all the kiddies
09:18 < jim> SporkWitch, that's fine, as long as you give them some tip they can use to improve their search results
09:18  * first-order lands in the middle of that rant.
09:18 < sauvin> You may certainly ignore whomever you like, but bear in mind this isn't an RTFM channel. Some folks DO have trouble coming up with search terms, and some people have trouble interpreting the results they get.
09:18 < bookworm> SporkWitch: the issue is that (at least as far as my scrollback goes) you aren't being helpful most of the time, or at least not in a tone which should be encouraged
09:19 < SporkWitch> jim: you know full well that i always make sure the query will at least get them started in the right direction; while it's certainly most pleasing if i can copy their text as-is, i modify where needed.
09:19 < first-order> As far as what I like to do for fun sometimes, I can get pretty damn childish, yet I'm not, nor do I ever intend to be, a script kiddie.
09:19 < SporkWitch> bookworm: i've been very helpful; you've just seen a lot of google questions in your scrollback
09:20 < jim> SporkWitch, I'm not talking about that part, I'm talking about teaching their -mind- how better to search
09:20 < first-order> Plus I'm just too tired lately to really care anymore.
09:21 < bookworm> more scrollback makes it worse I'm afraid
09:21 < first-order> Hell, I gotta put up with people's bullshit AFK for six hours, I'm not really in the mood to make any more for myself in the chats, basically.
09:21 < SporkWitch> jim: teaching how to structure a query isn't something that can reasonably be taught, let alone here, and certainly not in a timely manner.  If their google question was poorly formatted i restructure it to a good query.  As you are well aware.
09:21 < jim> bookworm, suffice it to say I'm working on everyone
09:22 < nai> JackMa: alright, i lost my zen, my apologies. but, as people mentioned, stop caring so much about what random people on the internet say, and also don't take your personal issues on a public channel
09:22 < SporkWitch> bookworm: i'm sorry that you seem to think help means doing everything for them
09:22 < JackMa> :) it’s ok :) nai
09:22 < bookworm> jim: pardon? I don't quite understand you
09:22 < jim> SporkWitch, that's unfortunate... because that's exactly what they need (do you disagree with that?)
09:23 < sauvin> Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
09:23 < bookworm> SporkWitch: you keep assuming things about me, where you have no clue
09:23 < SporkWitch> jim: do you seriously want 8 hour lectures on how to build search queries in here?  it's outside scope, just give them the better query; if they're capable of learning at all, they'll eventually figure out what makes a good query
09:23 < SporkWitch> bookworm: no assumptions, just what you've demonstrated
09:24 < sauvin> SporkWitch, bluntly put, you don't get to decide what's inside or outside scope because you're not evincing very good social skills.
09:24 < bookworm> you are in ##linux, not #archlinux. Try to behave this way
09:24 < first-order> SporkWitch, I can't really think of any normal person who does, tbh.
09:24 < jim> SporkWitch, not all at once... people might not listen, not in numbers that would make it worth the effort... however...
09:24 < bookworm> and if you look at the complains on the forums and such, ##linux probably shouldn't be like this
09:25 < SporkWitch> sauvin: okay, let's disrupt the channel with an 8 hour lecture on how to write search queries then.  OR we could just give them a google link to how to form search queries
09:25 < jim> maybe one 2-minute tip would be good
09:25 < SporkWitch> bookworm: ask a google question, get a google answer.  You want someone to do it for you, pay them.
09:25 < jim> and then another one later
09:26 < SporkWitch> jim: or a 5 second "here's the search string you need", nicely contained in a lmgtfy link
09:26 < bookworm> SporkWitch: https://www.google.com/search?&q=stuff+linux would actually be better
09:26 < bookworm> is actually more helpful than your animation
09:26 < SporkWitch> bookworm: yes, https://lmgtfy.com/s=d&q=?stuff+linux
09:26 < nai> what about adding this as a rule? "before you ask a question, make sure you can't get an answer with a simple search on google"
09:26  * first-order meanwhile is waiting for a recent order to show up before he finishes up a project he started a few days ago.
09:27 < SporkWitch> bookworm: equally helpful; they both do the same thing
09:27 < sauvin> What I usually do is something like this: "Here's what Google dredged up for me when I searched on 'rustbucket pile of crap'"
09:27 < sauvin> My approach is less patently offensive.
09:28 < bookworm> indeed, and I'd rather have it your way
09:28 < jim> SporkWitch, I get that you don't want to do that, and you don't have to... I'm doing some of it myself, and I hope others will also do it
09:28 < SporkWitch> sauvin: exactly, you're encouraging the behaviour.  The whole point is that they had you search for them; they should search it
09:28 < sauvin> SporkWitch, can you guess why I worded what I did that way?
09:28 < SporkWitch> sauvin: with almost no exceptions you'll get, at best, a "okay" they click the link you looked up for them, then come back in five minutes and have you do their search for them again
09:29 < jim> SporkWitch, and, sometime I -do- search for them, and sometimes I read the manual page so I can offer an explanation they can understand
09:29 < SporkWitch> sauvin: if you give them the result, they learn nothing, because you gave them what they wanted and should have gotten on their own.
09:29 < sauvin> Maybe, and maybe that's partly what we're here for. This is not a technical channel, it's a LOUNGE.
09:30 < sauvin> No approach is ever going to be perfect, but yours makes the place hostile to newbies.
09:30 < SporkWitch> pretty miserable lounge, if you're encouraging people to treat the knowledgebase as their personal search engine
09:30 < jim> SporkWitch, it's just that if you follow that logic to its conclusion, it necessarily has an increasingly high barrier to entry
09:31 < SporkWitch> jim: so do i, then tell them to read it after confirming it has the answer, and to ask if there's something THERE they don't understand.  Teach self-sufficiency
09:31 < SporkWitch> oh look, a slippery slope fallacy
09:31 < SporkWitch> when i tell them to read an RFC you can try that on me
09:31 < sauvin> SporkWitch, maybe you could find a channel that better fits your temperament.
09:31 < jim> the high barrier to entry isn't a slope, it's a cliff
09:32 < SporkWitch> jim: read the manpage or google isn't a high barrier to entry, it's the absolute bare minimum of general respect and courtesy when seeking assistance
09:32  * Aph3x-WL sporks SporkWitch
09:32 < Aph3x-WL> he's dead jim
09:32 < first-order> Nice.
09:32 < kekePower> SporkWitch: what's a man page?
09:33 < SporkWitch> kekePower: man man
09:33  * sauvin chortles
09:33 < kekePower> SporkWitch: I know I'm a man
09:33 < SporkWitch> kekePower: type it in your terminal (yes, i'm aware you're trolling)
09:33 < first-order> A man page is pretty much how it sounds, a page in a manual.
09:33 < kekePower> hehe
09:33  * sauvin grumbles there's no man or info pages for "woman"
09:33 < jim> kekePower, then man pages are for you! read one every day :)
09:34 < kekePower> sauvin: That's a great idea
09:34 < kekePower> a geeks guide to women
09:34 < iflema> pez
09:34 < SporkWitch> sauvin: you want me gone, you have the +b, but at the end of the day this whole disruption boils down to one kid whinging because he doesn't like the search tool linked
09:34 < bookworm> sauvin: well, there is for baby ^^ at least with the funny-manpages installed
09:34 < sauvin> Yup! Shouldn't take seriously more than seven or eight gigs...
09:34 < first-order> Although to be fair, man pages are more useful for reference than for actually finding out how to do stuff.
09:34 < sauvin> No, actually, SporkWitch, the whinging is about your attitude. I'm sorry you can't see it.
09:35 < kekePower> yeah. Man pages are written by techs
09:35 < jim> SporkWitch, have you noticed this is escalating? :)
09:35 < bookworm> SporkWitch: he wasn't whining and unless you aren't noticing no one shares your opinion so far
09:35 < sauvin> I actually taught myself how to code in perl, back in the Perl4 days, but... I wouldn't recommend it.
09:35 < SporkWitch> we've been over this before; i don't care.  they get what they needed, and a touch of shaming so they remember
09:35 < first-order> And also, normally if I need assistance on something, I tend to hit the docs first.
09:35 < kekePower> SporkWitch: I don't think shaming newbies is a Good Thing(tm)
09:36 < bookworm> not at all
09:36 < SporkWitch> jim: yes, i have noticed that the whinging is escalating.  children really should grow up instead of encouraging emotional cripples that can't survive outside a hugbox
09:36 < sauvin> I tend to google first, then I rummage about in the man pages. I don't ask questions in here very often, but that's not to say it never happens.
09:36 < sauvin> !@#$@%#$#
09:36 < bookworm> tell me about it...
09:36 < kekePower> *poof*
09:37 < nai> nice one
09:37 < first-order> Although for newbies, my best advice is to use something a tad more advanced than Ubuntu, but still easy to set up and run.
09:37 < first-order> Eg. Debian.
09:37 < bookworm> linux from scratch?
09:37 < first-order> 'a tad more advanced than Ubuntu.'
09:37 < sauvin> Debian, Ubuntu, tomatoes, tohmahtoze.
09:37 < first-order> NO WAY IN HELL am I recommending LFS to a newb.
09:37 < bookworm> XD
09:38 < sauvin> Kinda depends on what the newb wants and what his background is.
09:38 < first-order> sauvin, Ubuntu generally has more of the basic admin tasks hidden under a GUI than Debian does.
09:38 < bookworm> what is the distro to go these days? Ubuntu isn't really doing stuff I like, but Debian is *old*.... what to recommend? Solus?
09:38 < kekePower> Mageia is a good start
09:38 < bookworm> (and I mean old in a package version sense)
09:38 < sauvin> first-order, all the CLI stuff is still there, though.
09:39 < first-order> bookworm, Backports bridge the gap for most applications.
09:39 < sauvin> I like Debian for a reason. It might be a bit dated, but it's SOLID.
09:39 < sauvin> When I'm doing stuff, I don't want to be swearing at the system. I want to be swearing at what I'm trying to get done.
09:39 < nai> i feel like arch is good for a beginner. probably a rough start but it really gives you the basics
09:39 < bookworm> Not really, I often had a case where the bug was fixed but no version was available... tmux for instance
09:39 < first-order> sauvin, ^Couple lines up.
09:40 < kekePower> I started with Slackware back in the day
09:40 < first-order> In 99.9% of usage cases for Debian Stable outside of maybe servers, the backports repo does a decent job of bridging the gap between it and Testing.
09:40 < bookworm> arch is not really a beginners distro, on the contrary... bear in mind that new people never even saw a terminal
09:41 < sauvin> Many new people wouldn't, no. We see lots of folks drifting in with Windows and Macintosh backgrounds, and a CLI is intimidating to them.
09:42 < jim> bookworm, meetoo... I run debian because it's very well tested, and in particular, the toolchain (gcc, make, binutils, libc) has to work all the time, because it's used to build every package automatically
09:42 < first-order> sauvin, Even if, ironically enough, the Mac users have had access to a terminal the whole time due to running UNIX.
09:42 < bookworm> doesn't help when you don't know what 'cd' is or what on earth environment envs are
09:42 < nai> bookworm: maybe i'm biased because i jumped to arch after already having some experience with ubuntu
09:42 < first-order> As for Windows, cmd is navigated like a DOS partition.\
09:43 < sauvin> first-order, yeah, but... um... last time my Mac-loving girlfriend had me ssh into her Mac laptop in order to fix stuff, I was all bollixed up at the strange way OS X lays out its directory structures.
09:43 < first-order> Pretty much, if you ever screwed around in DOS in any capacity, you can move around in a cmd session.
09:43 < bookworm> nai: same here. But i vividly remember the old days, when I was almost throwing away my computer because I couldn't grasp some concept
09:44 < jim> first-order, yes, and, the dos scripting language isn't the same as the unix shells
09:44 < bookworm> who ever uses DOS besides techy people... most people don't even know it exists
09:44 < sauvin> I started using DOS on a brand spanking new 286.
09:44 < first-order> bookworm, Anyone who uses a Command Prompt in Windows for whatever reason.
09:45 < jim> bookworm, yeah, microsoft hides it pretty good
09:45 < first-order> Anyone who emulates in DOSbox or just happens to have a DOS PC laying around.....
09:46 < bookworm> first-order: yes indeed, but those aren't the 99% users are they?
09:46 < first-order> Nope.
09:46 < jim> the first time I saw dos it was in a loaded s100 cage with an 8086
09:46 < first-order> Most of the people who run cmd are admins, to my knowledge.
09:46 < sauvin> Jeebus, now, s100 is a term I've not heard in a very, very long time.
09:46 < bookworm> and that's my point
09:46 < jim> probably so
09:47 < jim> sauvin, yeah, my first computer was an imsai :)
09:47 < first-order> However DOSbox has a decent userbase as far as the emulation scene is concerned.
09:47 < bookworm> but hey, now we have bash in windows \o/
09:47 < sauvin> And you had a girlfriend who looked an awful lot like Ally Sheedy?
09:47 < bookworm> a proper terminal
09:47 < first-order> Weeeellll......
09:47 < first-order> Aside from Powershell.
09:48 < jim> sauvin, heh, no :)
09:48 < bookworm> no, I mean *proper* terminal :P
09:48 < sauvin> Dunno about "proper"; That WSL thing still sits atop a Windows kernel.
09:48 < bookworm> object oriented shells...
09:48  * bookworm shudders
09:48 < bookworm> sauvin: as long as the tools work I don't care... after all I also don't care too much about glic (if it works)
09:48 < first-order> Cmd to my knowledge is mostly good enough for command-line admin tasks.
09:49 < bookworm> glibc*
09:49 < sauvin> Is that what that goofy Powershell is supposed to be? Object-oriented?
09:49 < bookworm> yes
09:49 < jim> bookworm, if perl or python becomes a shell, that's exactly what you'll have :)
09:49 < bookworm> jim: none of those is meant as a shell
09:49 < sauvin> I called it "baroque", "byzantine" and then got busy with some more down-to-earth Anglo-Saxon.
09:54 < sauvin> My idea of a shell is pretty simple: you need to be able to cd around, maybe set a few environment variables, do an 'ls' or three, a few other such things. When it comes to scripting anything, I tend to prefer something more powerful and less confusing than, say, bash.
09:55 < nai> just learn it
09:55 < nai> it's pretty powerful for simple tasks
09:55 < sauvin> Why should I? I already know something tons *more* powerful.
09:55 < bookworm> for one shot tasks I use bash, anything serious I use python
09:56 < nai> you shouldn't anything, but i personally like the idea of using the shell for doing simple things that can be done in a shell
09:56 < kekePower> zsh, awk, sed and grep
09:57 < sauvin> Frankly, if I gotta awk and sed it, it's perl time.
09:58 < andrei-n> Is it possible to use Midnight Commander to copy files from floppy image to file system?
09:58 < bookworm> I don't understand perl.... too many ways to write incomprehensible code
09:58 < kekePower> unfortunately I don't know perl or python
09:58 < nai> if you're good at perl, then sure. but that's specifically for stream/file manipulation, it doesn't really replace a shell/programming language afaik
09:58 < kekePower> andrei-n: As long as the floppy is mounted
09:59 < sauvin> nai, perl is a general purpose multiparadigm programming language.
09:59 < jim> andrei-n, you should be able to mount the floppy image
10:00 < jim> at that point you can do whatever
10:00 < jim> (so, yes :)
10:00 < nai> i should have just said "it doesn't replace a shell"
10:00 < andrei-n> But it can access zip files.  So why not floppy image files?
10:00 < nai> in its philosophy, at least
10:00 < bookworm> andrei-n: it *can* do it
10:00 < sauvin> It can, though. I seem to remember at least one shell having been written in perl.
10:01 < nai> sauvin: bash is written in C, but C doesn't replace a shell
10:01 < jim> andrei-n, you don't need to "extract" from the image, you can actually mount it, then copy the files otu
10:01 < sauvin> Can you do a C REPL?
10:01 < bookworm> sauvin: yes, see python
10:01 < jim> isn't that what templeos does?
10:02 < nai> sauvin: hm, yes
10:02 < nai> but i don't see where you're going
10:02  * bookworm misunderstood
10:02 < sauvin> Because I can make a rudimentary shell out of perl just by writing an EVAL loop.
10:03 < jim> nai, you could write C interpreters
10:03 < bookworm> no compiled language has sane repls
10:03 < nai> jim: why? there are already plenty
10:03 < jim> nai, then you've just answered your own question :)_
10:04 < nai> jim: what question?
10:04 < jim> oh, it was sauvin's question :)
10:04 < nai> yes :)
10:04 < andrei-n> Actually what I wanted is an easier way to use cpmtools to copy files from and to floppy images.  And it would be nice if MC worked with cpmtools...
10:04 < jim> sauvin: yes :)
10:05 < sauvin> o.O
10:05 < sauvin> CP/M?
10:05 < jim> that's not a c repl :)
10:05 < nai> sauvin: sure, my point was rather that the philosophy of a shell is different to that of a programming language. a shell gives you a syntax to interface with essentially programs and files, and easily make these communicate
10:05 < jim> I'm just saying you can do it
10:05 < andrei-n> sauvin, yes.
10:06 < sauvin> andrei-n, these floppy images are mounted to loop devices or something?
10:06 < andrei-n> No.
10:06 < jim> andrei-n, you can quickly and easily get the source :) (so really, you have the source)
10:06 < stevendale> :P
10:07 < stevendale> Brb
10:07 < JackMa> if i know linux well, then what is good to me?
10:07 < sauvin> I can't even remember what FS CP/M used, *exactly*. Immediate predecessor to MS DOS 1.mumble, iirc, but not the same.
10:07 < jim> JackMa, what do you want to do with linux?
10:08 < JackMa> jim: yeah i want to use linux as first my os system
10:08 < jim> JackMa, ok, you can do that :) next?
10:09 < JackMa> penetrating system with linux 8)
10:09 < jim> JackMa, do you have linux installed?
10:09 < JackMa> yes ubuntu
10:09 < JackMa> and raspbian
10:10  * sauvin installs cpmtools just to have a gander
10:10 < jim> ok... if you look at what kali packaged, and get the source packages, you can build them on either platform
10:10 < sauvin> What's Kali got to do with anything?
10:10 < JackMa> can i penetrate computer at bus stop with linux?
10:11 < jim> sauvin, he wants to learn pen testing
10:11 < andrei-n> sauvin, it seems that every computer and every version had a slightly different fs.  That's why the cpmtools diskdefs file is so complicated and modern emulators often create their own fs format.  But it's possible using hexdump to create a diskdefs entry for almost any cp/m image.  So once it works, it's ok...
10:11 < nai> sauvin: pentest-oriented distro
10:12 < sauvin> andrei-n, forgive me for asking this, but for what purpose are you messing with CP/M FS images?
10:12 < jim> JackMa, so, you can do that on the dists you already have installed
10:13 < JackMa> jim i install only ubuntu
10:13 < JackMa> :)
10:13 < andrei-n> sauvin, I'm learning the 8086 assembly and the way CP/M works.  I just find it interesting.
10:13 < jim> and raspian?
10:13 < JackMa> yeah
10:13 < jim> so, both.
10:13 < JackMa> i installed raspbian too
10:13 < sauvin> OH. That is actually an EXCELLENT reason.
10:15  * sauvin remembers poking MSDOS 3.mumble full of holes
10:18  * first-order didn't even really screw that much with Macs outside of grade school, aside from a graphics class HE TOOK A FEW YEARS AGO.
10:19 < first-order> And grade school was primarily OS8 or 9, don't remember which version of Mac OS the iMac fleet ran, but I bet the older Power Macs were OS 8.
10:19 < hendrix> used msdos 3. too. got fondle memories of 4DOS, which ofcourse become later
10:20 < first-order> PC-wise, I was mostly a Win9x kid.
10:20 < first-order> Missed out on the Amiga though.
10:21 < first-order> And only picked up Linux a few years ago, so there.
10:22 < jim> yeah I never got an amiga either, so couldn't run marble madness... I did have an atari st
10:22 < first-order> Ran pretty much everything but SUSE-based distros, Gentoo, LFS, and Slack so far, sticking with Arch for the longest amount of time before I got fed up with it and threw Debian on here.
10:22 < jim> we had forth and c on it
10:23 < first-order> But no, the most time I spent on a Mac was in the OS 8 and 9 eras.
10:23 < oiaohm> first-order: seams to be lot of a long term Linux users end up on debian.
10:24 < jim> we were running macos 6 mostly at that start
10:24 < oiaohm> first-order: I found my way to debian back in the year 2000 and have to left since.
10:24 < first-order> oiaohm, I really tried to make CentOS work as a desktop briefly though, but lack of available packages even with third-party repos killed that.
10:24 < sauvin> I remember 4DOS. When I played with it more than just a few minutes, it became my default shell.
10:26 < first-order> Arch was getting a bit too unstable for me, while Debian's a nice compromise so far between amount of available packages, and worry-free operation so far.
10:26 < first-order> Plus I'm running 4-gen-old hardware here, running an older kernel is not going to hurt me any.
10:27 < bookworm> but, but... new and shiny!
10:27 < first-order> Hardware's too old to really take advantage of a newer kernel.
10:27 < first-order> I'm running Haswell for fuck sakes, lol.
10:28 < first-order> Or, not really going to gain much by running the latest and greatest on here.
10:29 < MrElendig> first-order: never kernels are a good thing even on old hardware
10:29 < luke-jr> Haswell isn't that old, and kernel upgrades still improve older systems..
10:29 < luke-jr> I literally *just* upgraded from Haswell
10:29 < MrElendig> eg recently the network performance got a big bump
10:29 < sauvin> first-order, mind the language, please.
10:29 < luke-jr> even when performance doesn't change, security does
10:29 < first-order> That being said, I could grab 4.14 from backports if I please.
10:30 < luke-jr> heh, my system won't even be usable with anything older than 4.16 ;p
10:30 < bookworm> luke-jr: to be honest, security stuff gets backported
10:30 < luke-jr> bookworm: sure, but you still need to upgrade to the backported version
10:31  * luke-jr hopes 4.17 will fix virtualization
10:31 < bookworm> no, as in the corresponding stable branch for, say 4.14 gets the fixed applied
10:31 < luke-jr> bookworm: yes, but that won't help you if you are running 4.14.0 still
10:32 < first-order> I believe the latest kernel in stretch-backports is 4.15.
10:32 < oiaohm> first-order: please note haswell has the intel cpu stuf-up.
10:32 < bookworm> but that's not the same as enabling backports is it? Of course you need to keep the packages up to date
10:32 < luke-jr> oiaohm: as if any Intel CPUs don't
10:33 < first-order> Which is EOL.
10:33 < oiaohm> first-order: by default debian installs are all debian testing.
10:34 < oiaohm> first-order: debian testing is still quite low in the issue count.
10:34 < luke-jr> oiaohm: what? you have to decide which Debian to download..
10:34 < luke-jr> there is no default
10:34 < first-order> I'm running stable atm.
10:34 < first-order> Er...
10:34 < oiaohm> luke-jr: you have old stable, stable and testing with debian provides as install ISOs.
10:34 < first-order> Stable /w backports.
10:35 < luke-jr> oiaohm: exactly, and you have to pick one
10:35 < first-order> oiaohm, And old-old stable/LTS.
10:35 < oiaohm> first-order: I keep on forgoting the LTS .
10:35 < kekePower> first-order: So you're running Haswell... I could only dream of having that
10:35 < luke-jr> kekePower: O.o?
10:35 < first-order> Debian's branching system is more in line with Ubuntu's at this point.
10:36 < first-order> Wait..
10:36 < first-order> (facepalms)
10:36 < kekePower> but I'm pleased with my Xeon E31270
10:37 < first-order> Debian is LTS -> OldStable -> Stable -> Testing -> Sid -> Experimental.
10:37 < luke-jr> kekePower: upgrade to a nice shiny POWER9 :P
10:37 < first-order> Ubuntu is Previous LTS -> Current LTS -> Interim -> whatever their prerelease equivalent is to Debian's.
10:39 < first-order> No matter, I kinda prefer upstream Debian to Ubuntu at this point anyways.
10:40 < stevendale> Proud of myself
10:40 < kekePower> luke-jr: https://www.fool.com/investing/2016/07/06/ibms-power9-processor-what-you-need-to-know.aspx
10:40 < stevendale> I sped up my grandmothers Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 :)
10:41 < bookworm> factory reset and not installing all the previous garbage? ;)
10:41 < stevendale> Nah
10:41 < oiaohm> first-order: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS  Its not quite the same.    Old versions of debian was the testing at some point in history.
10:42 < stevendale> Uninstalled and disabled a crap ton of apps, removed unnessesary home screen widgets & shortcuts, enabled developer options and turned off animations, turned off Google Play auto update
10:42 < luke-jr> kekePower: mine is the 8-core SMT4 (x 2 CPUs) variant
10:42 < bookworm> auto update should not be disabled for your grandma...
10:42 < oiaohm> luke-jr: debian I have installed stable before and change repos to change to testing and done the reverse as well.
10:42 < stevendale> bookworm: I kept update notifications on though and showed her how to do it
10:42 < bookworm> after all she probably won't be doing it manually... this is a security issue
10:43 < stevendale> This is something I took into consideration
10:43 < oiaohm> luke-jr: so you don't have to make a absolute choice on install of debian but its cleaner for the file system if you do.
10:43 < luke-jr> kekePower: so basically the equivalent of 64 Intel cores
10:44 < first-order> And that Thinkpad T20 that VWestlife threw W98 on would've been a perfect test for one of Linux's supposed perks of extending hardware life.
10:44 < stevendale> She's planning on getting an Apple iPad when she upgrades bookworm, so probably not too big of a problem :)
10:44 < bookworm> 'upgrading' to iOS....
10:45 < luke-jr> ^…
10:45 < stevendale> Yeah, she has an iPhone
10:45 < first-order> Eg. try running Wheezy or Jessie /w Windowmaker on it.
10:45 < luke-jr> stevendale: mistake #1
10:45 < stevendale> I'm not gonna try to tell her what's better or what she should do, everybody has different opinions :)
10:45 < bookworm> honestly for older people an iphone is good. They can't break much
10:46 < bookworm> on android you can easily get lost
10:46 < stevendale> Yeah she had all the Samsung bloat fully updated bookworm
10:46 < first-order> luke-jr, To my knowledge, Apple has a leg up on Android hardware-wise too, too bad you have to jailbreak an iPhone to take advantage of that.
10:46 < kekePower> luke-jr: I don't think I can get a machine with this CPU in Norway
10:46 < luke-jr> first-order: Android comes with a wide spectrum of phones hardware-wise
10:47 < luke-jr> unavailability of iOS on low-end phones doesn't mean iOS is better :P
10:47 < luke-jr> kekePower: are your imports restricted or something?
10:47 < first-order> I thought Apple generally had the faster hardware when comparing, for example, an iPhone to an S8.
10:48 < bookworm> in arbitrary benchmarks
10:48 < notmike> iPhone is a terrible platform
10:49 < tunekey> did i do this correct? "sudo cp -r /home/user/usb2/.* /media/usb/" my goal is to copy everything inside of /usb2 and put it in /usb
10:50 < luke-jr> iPhone X has 2.3 GHz; S9+ has 2.8 GHz
10:50 < luke-jr> iPhone X has 3 GB RAM; S9+ has 6 GB RAM
10:50 < stevendale> And my i5-3340M is faster than both >.>
10:51 < MrElendig> iphone will also stop working if you hold it wrong
10:51 < MrElendig> or just bend
10:51 < MrElendig> or just fry
10:51 < bookworm> all thin phones bend
10:51 < bookworm> samsung batteries exploded
10:51 < stevendale> Because the benchmarks on iPhones/Android are optimized for ARM not Intel, try running CPU N-Queens or something on an ARM phone, lol
10:51  * bookworm shrugs
10:51 < MrElendig> bookworm: the iphone was special in that regard
10:52 < MrElendig> :p
10:52 < first-order> Or get destroyed in extreme drop tests, while a battered S8 still functions.
10:52 < MrElendig> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8
10:52 < luke-jr> lol, iPhone is still on USB 2
10:52 < stevendale> Haha
10:52 < stevendale> I use USB2 everyday :P
10:52 < luke-jr> and they have a non-standard connector? what
10:52 < MrElendig> a lot of phones with usb C ports actually use usb 2.x :p
10:53 < luke-jr> MrElendig: the point being made here is that Android phones can be found with hardware at least as good as Apple's
10:53 < stevendale> AC 19.5 volt babe <3
10:54 < luke-jr> kekePower: https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2DS1/intro.html
10:55 < MrElendig> luke-jr: see video, apple hardware sucks and their support is even worse :p
10:56 < MrElendig> so yea, not that hard to find better hardware
10:58 < kekePower> luke-jr: Wanted configuration: $7000
10:58 < zergut> Hello, how to watch a livestream not via browser in linux?
10:58 < MrElendig> mpv
10:58 < luke-jr> kekePower: can save a bit if you build it
10:58 < Hydraxis> or vlc
10:58 < MrElendig> (with youtube-dl)
10:58 < zergut> it is not a streaming video
10:58 < luke-jr> kekePower: also note that the 8-core is the best price point
10:58 < zergut> it is a livestream
10:58 < MrElendig> zergut: livestream == streaming video
10:58 < MrElendig> there is no difference
10:59 < luke-jr> MrElendig: he probably wants to watch in realtime
10:59 < Sitri> There's the chat
10:59 < MrElendig> luke-jr: mpv thestream does that
10:59 < Sitri> Also mplayer can play streaming video, if you give it the URL
10:59 < MrElendig> (possible a few sec buffering but that's all)
10:59 < luke-jr> kekePower: I built my dual 8-core system w/ 64 GB RAM for under $5k
10:59 < MrElendig> there is no reason to use mplayer over mpv
11:00 < zergut> for my perspective it plays only 3 secs of video and that's all
11:00 < kekePower> luke-jr: I bought my current PC, used, for approx $200
11:00 < kekePower> Dell Precision T1600
11:00 < zergut> from my*
11:01 < zergut> pls check this link is it okay for you?
11:01 < zergut> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQWXjzBgekU
11:02 < notmike> jim:
11:02 < MrElendig> mpv "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQWXjzBgekU" works fine for me
11:03 < kekePower> luke-jr: How is Linux support for the Power CPU?
11:03 < luke-jr> kekePower: well, for POWER9 specifically, since it's new, needs 4.16 at least
11:03 < MrElendig> boring game and streamer though
11:03 < luke-jr> virtualization is unstable though - I hope 4.17 fixes that
11:04 < luke-jr> biggest problem for me is actually the current firmware conflict with AMD GPUs
11:04 < luke-jr> AMD GPUs only support 40-bit DMA, and the POWER9 firmware tries to set a high bit for DMA stuff
11:04 < zergut> i mean its not DASH its HLS
11:04 < luke-jr> so the system tries to use only 32-bit DMA for AMD GPUs as a result, and that's not enough for my usage
11:05 < luke-jr> but IBM is working on a firmware workaround for AMD cards, so should just be a matter of time
11:05 < kekePower> great
11:05 < luke-jr> and in the meantime, having 64 threads means Mesa can render my 3D fine anyway
11:05 < kekePower> heh
11:06 < luke-jr> although scaling video is a problem, mainly because Linux video players don't optimise it
11:06 < luke-jr> but I just run a separate X server with the GPU drivers for that purpose
11:06 < luke-jr> (scaling video doesn't need a lot of DMA address space)
11:07 < kekePower> I really don't have the need for that kind of power as I only compile packages
11:08 < kekePower> Have the cheapest GPU I could find with HDMI and this workstation has more than enough power atm
11:09 < zergut> looks lite it doesnt work properly with HLS, i mean mpv
11:36 < MrElendig> works for me
11:51 < lpapp_> hi, has anyone successfully sent an html email from command line?
11:51 < lpapp_> This is what I am getting: echo lcvs_newsletter_template_tinkering-5.html | mail -a "From: lpapp@kde.org" -a "MIME-Version: 1.0" -a "Content-Type: text/html" -s "Html Email" net147@gmail.com
11:51 < lpapp_> mail: Failed to access attachment 'From: lpapp@kde.org': No such entry, file or directory
11:54 < Sitri> lpapp_: man mail, look at what -a means
11:54 < lpapp_> I also tried this: mail -a "Content-type: text/html" -s "Built notification" net147@gmail.com < ./lcvs_newsletter_template_tinkering-6.html
11:54 < lpapp_> mail: Failed to access attachment 'Content-type: text/html': No such entry, file or directory
11:54 < lpapp_> Sitri: I got it from here, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3317174/sending-html-mail-using-a-shell-script
11:55 < Sitri> man mail
11:56 < nai> lpapp_: man mail
11:56 < Sitri> Also FYI, you can do: (echo 'stuff'; cat file) | mail, which might be helpful to you
11:56 < nai> -a is for attaching files
11:56 < lpapp_> Sitri: they changed the meaning?
11:56 < lpapp_> nai: they changed the meaning?
11:57 < Sitri> That person probably has a different mail program entirely
11:57 < lpapp_> lovely...
11:57 < lpapp_> so does anyone know the command on Linux to send an html email from the command line?
11:57 < Sitri> ...
11:57 < royal_screwup21> When I try to sudo-get-install a package, I hit this error: "E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem." -- what does this mean, and how do I fix it without going into secure boot?
11:58 < royal_screwup21> (I'm on linux, ubuntu 16.04)
11:58 < bookworm> lpapp_: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17359/how-do-i-send-a-file-as-an-email-attachment-using-linux-command-line/48588035#48588035
11:58 < lpapp_> pacman -Qo mail
11:58 < lpapp_> /usr/bin/mail is owned by s-nail 14.9.10-1
11:58 < nai> lpapp_: again, man mail
11:58 < lpapp_> is that all you can say?
11:58 < nai> Sitri: as a side-note, the subshell is not necessary in your command
11:58 < bookworm> lpapp_: you are running arch, behave like it
11:58 < lpapp_> that is fine; I hope someone with experience has this
11:59 < bookworm> reading man pages is expected
11:59 < Sitri> nai: how so?
12:00 < Sitri> I mean, you could do: echo 'stuff' | cat - file | mail, but I was expecting him to have multiple echo's to fill out the headers.
12:00 < nai> Sitri: { echo stuff; cat file; } | mail   would do
12:00 < nai> that way you don't make the shell fork unnecessarily
12:01 < Sitri> Ah, TIL
12:02 < jollyjester> hello
12:02 < jollyjester> everyone
12:03 < lpapp_> so this did not work either: { echo -e "This is the subject\nContent-Type: text/html"; cat lcvs_newsletter_template_tinkering-5.html; } | mail net147@gmail.com
12:04 < Sitri> What was the error?
12:05 < lpapp_> there is no error, just stuck process, no output
12:05 < Sitri> I'm pretty sure at the very least you're missing an extra new-line before the HTML
12:06 < lpapp_> { echo -e "This is the subject\nContent-Type: text/html\n"; cat lcvs_newsletter_template_tinkering-5.html; } | mail net147@gmail.com
12:06 < lpapp_> do you want this then?
12:06 < Sitri> That's what I meant
12:07 < lpapp_> still stuck
12:07 < lpapp_> no output
12:08 < Sitri> And you're including the to and from headers?
12:09 < nai> lpapp_: you didn't find your answer in the man page?
12:10 < nai> i can clearly see an option for headers and an option for the subject
12:10 < lpapp_> nai: no
12:11 < nai> look for the -C and -s options. you can also scroll down to "On sending mail", which gives a few examples
12:12 < lpapp_> I did use the -s option, that is not an issue
12:14 < nai> can you send a plain text file?
12:16 < lpapp_> no
12:16 < ||JD||> do you even have a MTA running there?
12:17 < lpapp_> echo "Test" | mail -s "Html Email" lpapp@kde.org - this would get stuck just as well
12:17 < mawk> no mta wouldn't make that error
12:18 < ||JD||> mawk: what error?
12:18 < mawk> 11:54:47 <lpapp_> mail: Failed to access attachment 'Content-type: text/html': No such entry, file or directory
12:19 < lpapp_> that was a syntax issue
12:19 < lpapp_> I may not have an MTA set up though
12:19 < lpapp_> I have ssmtp installed... should I use postfix instead?
12:20 < mawk> ssmtp will make you use the smtp server of your choice
12:20 < nai> trying to send mail without an MTA gives me: mail: Cannot start /usr/sbin/sendmail: executable not found (adjust *mta* variable)
12:20 < mawk> if the end server will be like googlemail, no need for postfix
12:20 < mawk> ssmtp works well
12:21 < lpapp_> - /etc/ssmtp/ssmtp.conf seems to be set up properly though
12:22 < lpapp_> even echo -n 'Subject: test\n\nTesting ssmtp' | sendmail -v lpapp@archlinux.us would get stuck
12:23 < alexandre9099> hi, is it possible to see in real time the connection speed between two computers without hurting the performance of the network?
12:25 < lpapp_> sendmail: Cannot open smtp.gmail.com:587
12:25 < MrElendig> with the correct hardware, sure
12:25 < MrElendig> or you can set up some metering on the endpoints themself
12:25 < MrElendig> lpapp_: gmail is a bit picky, read their docs
12:26 < ||JD||> google "lesssecureapps"
12:26 < noodlepie> I remember installing Sendmail on my offline first PC (25 years ago! :P) and giving it a dummy hostname so email between local users would work. I thought it was fantastic at the time, it was a Slackware install with tarball packages and a simple package manager I got with a book about Linux (big thick one). It had some Motif C++ tutorials in and I was hooked immediately
12:27 < noodlepie> Linux is fun. Its Freedom is a socio-political convenience!
12:27 < lpapp_> it could be my corporate proxy
12:27 < lpapp_> is it not enough to set the environment variables for mail sending from the command line?
12:29 < lpapp_> these are my two ssmtp config files in case you find any issues with it: https://paste.kde.org/puz2bufva/9naez5/raw
12:29 < lpapp_> MrElendig: what exactly do you mean?
12:29 < nai> noodlepie: "Its Freedom is a socio-political convenience!" what did you mean by that, if you don't mind my asking?
12:30 < bookworm> lpapp_: if your "mypassword" is the google password that won't work. That's what MrElendig means
12:31 < bookworm> google refuses password for "insecure apps"
12:31 < lpapp_> hmmpfff
12:31 < lpapp_> used to work though
12:31 < bookworm> unless you explicitly create an app password
12:31 < lpapp_> has this changed recently
12:31 < bookworm> well, a few years?
12:32 < lpapp_> that would explain it
12:32 < noodlepie> Well, if Linux weren't free, it would be more difficult to obtain it and use, according to its Linux The social implication of sharing is to advance and succeed in your plan. There wouldn't be groups of developer helping each other out, so with sharing they are able to find more and more stable procedures.
12:32 < solsTiCe> hi. since I have let running bluelog on my rpi, I have found not much device around. What a shocking discovery I made, is that my laptop is ALWAYS in discovery mode. meaning visible by all devices around. and even if I rfkill block it. (or use airplane mode in gnome control center). The device does not appear anymore in hcitool dev. and appear blocked in rfkill list. How is that even possible ?
12:32 < mawk> or you can disable that secure mode
12:32 < solsTiCe> I just run modprobe -r btusb, and it is still broadcasting!
12:32 < lpapp_> telnet smtp.gmail.com 587
12:32 < lpapp_> Trying 66.102.1.109...
12:32 < solsTiCe> ecdh_generic is using bluetooth module so I can't remove bluetooth module. is it normal that bluetooth use ecdh_generic ?
12:32 < lpapp_> hmm, stuck there... that is an indication that the proxy does not let me out on port 587?
12:32 < stevendale> Hi
12:33 < noodlepie> I just mean it as solial tautology to share and help four neighbor. Evolutionary thinking would lead me to believe life formed "social contract" to survive more, thus had more babies and this exist on a mass scale. Encouraging users to share and help each other out is a step surpassed by Linux sharing because politically its a very social left-wing to do.
12:35 < lpapp_> do I need some corkscrew magic to turn 587 into 80?
12:35 < lpapp_> so that I can send it via the corporate proxy?
12:35 < mawk> you tried 25 ?
12:35 < bookworm> you probably shouldn't... if its blocked it was blocked explicitly
12:36 < lpapp_> mawk: yes, 25 was blocked, too. I think the proxy blocks anything that is not 80 or 443.
12:37 < mawk> ask your sysadmin to unblock it
12:37 < mawk> or maybe try to use the corporate SMTP as a relay
12:37 < mawk> it's maybe allowed
12:41 < kevinb1012> Hello everyone, I am trying to boot a linux kernel with a rootfs partition. But I got a kernel panic. It is an embedded at91 device. U-boot loads the kernel in RAM, and executes it. On the sd-card there is a ext4 partition. I used Ubuntu rootfs, I unpacked it in the ext4 partition. When booting I get a kernel panic
12:41 < kevinb1012> EXT4-fs (mmcblk0p2): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: (null) VFS: Mounted root (ext4 filesystem) on device 179:2. devtmpfs: mounted Freeing unused kernel memory: 200K This architecture does not have kernel memory protection. Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! exitcode=0x0000000b  ---[ end Kernel panic - not syncing: Attempted to kill init! exitcode=0x0000000b
12:42 < kevinb1012> Does anyone know what I did wrong? Do I have to use another file system?
12:59 < jim> kevinb1012, seems like the kernel started and tried to start the init process which exited, either normally or abnormally
12:59 < jim> kevinb1012, why not try starting a shell?
13:00 < noodlepie> I mean its socially, politically and technically, a convenience @:P-~ -
13:01 < jim> on the kernel command line, you can put init=/path/to/a/shell where the initial / is relative to the filesystem mounted as /
13:01 < maxzor_> Hello, why is git for libreoffice/m$$ office not a thing yet?
13:02 < jim> maxzor_, why does it have to be? just run it from the shell
13:02 < jim> is the libreoffice source on a git repo and are you trying to get it so you can build it/
13:02 < jim> ?
13:02 < maxzor_> it could show the "power of git" to the huge world of the sharepoint users
13:05 < jim> I'm given to understand that git is implemented in quite a flexible way, I'm not sure the details, but I think it's divided into higher and lower level functions, and the higher level can call the lower any way it wants
13:05 < maxzor_> no I am willing to track, merge ... spreadsheets, world documents, (vba, paging...) with git. I know about extensions, xml parsers etc. I am just ranting that a noob-friendly application does not exist yet.
13:05 < maxzor_> yes sure it can be interfaced so you can diff xml documents with a parser
13:06 < jim> Torvalds says the present incarnation of git is much simpler than the original one
13:06 < maxzor_> i do not doubt it who today uses index commands!
13:06 < jim> so a, consider yourself lucky to be living in these times :) and b, it could get integrated into something
13:07 < maxzor_> yeah :)
13:07 < jim> who knows, maybe you'll do it
13:07 < maxzor_> heh that is the answer i was fearing :)
13:08 < jim> I'm given to understand you can git git from git...
13:08 < maxzor_> corporate businesses litterally know nothing about workflow... from my point of view there is a huge interest. Sharepoint sucks
13:08 < jim> do you code at all?
13:08 < OnkelTem> Hi all
13:08 < jim> hi
13:08 < maxzor_> I happen to do a bit... nothing on the level expected for such an end-user app
13:09 < maxzor_> hi
13:09 < OnkelTem> Guys, I cannot log into a server with SSH using key. I don't understand why
13:09 < OnkelTem> I provide specific identity file, but it say: debug1: key_load_public: No such file or directory
13:10 < OnkelTem> I did place that key right into /home/user/.ssh, it belongs to user, permissions are ok
13:10 < jim> OnkelTem, ok, all of which are required iirc
13:11 < jim> could you do: ls .ssh | nc termbin.com 9999
13:11 < OnkelTem> Unfortunately I cannot see sshd logs, because the server is actually a docker container and the latter makes something with logs so I don't see them
13:13 < jim> maxzor_, maybe you can interest the git devs in writing an integration layer to work with libreoffice
13:14 < jim> maxzor_, you know that git already has a few gui apps?
13:14 < maxzor_> jim, yes, thank you, that is definitely a sane way to go
13:15 < OnkelTem> jim: client: http://termbin.com/jd2n        server (docker): http://termbin.com/iz5f
13:16 < OnkelTem> They are the same keys actually
13:16 < OnkelTem> I copied them using docker cp, then chowned.
13:16 < jim> looks like the client has a key pair... and...
13:16 < OnkelTem> Maybe I'm missing something...
13:17 < jim> OnkelTem, so, the client is trying to ssh into the server?
13:18 < OnkelTem> Yeah. So basically the client is my host machine with Kubuntu 17.10 and the server - is a running docker container with debian stretch.
13:19 < jim> maxzor_, you gotta remember though, they very likely get requests like that and other things, and have to handle problem cases, all day every day... so be polite and make their life easy
13:20 < maxzor_> for sure I know diplomacy a little :)
13:22 < jim> OnkelTem, ok, here's what you want to do on the server: it looks like there is no file authorized_keys there, so make one like this: cd ~/.ssh ; cat id_rsa.pub > authorized_keys
13:22 < OnkelTem> I have openssh-server running inside the container, I didn't do anything with its configs soeverything is by default.
13:22 < OnkelTem> Damn it, I studid, I forgot it :)
13:22 < OnkelTem> jim: that's the missing part exactly! :)
13:22 < OnkelTem> LOL
13:23 < jim> probably so, give it a try
13:23 < OnkelTem> Of course it is
13:23 < jim> also you don't want the private key anywhere but on the client
13:24 < jim> can you ssh in by password?
13:24 < OnkelTem> jim: I know it's not a good thing, but I don't really see any other way to provide my container with the same authority as my client to be able to access our private repos
13:24 < OnkelTem> So after I start my container I copy my keys into it :(
13:25 < jim> got it
13:25 < OnkelTem> There is a way of course thought, we can add more keys for ourselves exactly for from-containers usage
13:25 < jim> it's just that it's not necessary to have -either- key on the server (except appended to authorized_keys)
13:26 < jim> so did you actually try to ssh in?
13:26 < fujisan> how do i run android apps on linux?
13:26 < berz3rk> any idea how to edit initramfs..? when I try to extract, modify and repack it just doesnt work
13:26 < berz3rk> i get an error
13:26 < fujisan> Slaap: i need you
13:26 < jim> fujisan, I think there are emulators
13:27 < berz3rk> anyone has a script for me to extract / modify / repack initramfs
13:27 < fujisan> oh okay
13:27 < fujisan> what about temox os
13:27 < fujisan> remix os
13:27 < berz3rk> anyone knows if I can use a texteditor at rescue shell? when I try to use vi i get a black screen and nothing works
13:27 < berz3rk> is sed available?
13:27 < jim> dunno what those are
13:28 < jim> berz3rk, depending on how you got into the rescue shell and what's mounted, you should have your whole system
13:29 < hexnewbie> berz3rk: Rescue shell? What's that? Some of the rescue shells I know feature the full distro environment, including all editors. If vi runs (i.e. it doesn't say ‘command not found’), it ought to work and your issue lies elsewhere (and not in its unavailability)
13:29 < berz3rk> when you boot up initramfs
13:30 < berz3rk> not so sure what exactly it is, its linux on ps4
13:30 < berz3rk> a very basic environment
13:30 < OnkelTem> jim: if you mean can I now ssh into container w/o password - yes. I copied that pub key into authorized_keys and it works now
13:30 < hexnewbie> berz3rk: sed should be there
13:30 < jim> OnkelTem, great
13:31 < hexnewbie> berz3rk: I also think vi is, and you're experiencing some odd issue (such as overscan hiding the status line at the bottom and the cursor at the top)
13:33 < berz3rk> hexnewbie: even if, I tried to do the same commands like on pc but it didnt went away
13:33 < berz3rk> Escape -> q! enter
13:33 < berz3rk> didnt work
13:33 < berz3rk> trying sed
13:38 < berz3rk> sed works
13:39 < BluesKaj> Howdy folks
13:40 < stevendale> Hey
13:42 < stevendale> Brb
13:46 < hendrix> berz3rk: it may have 'ed'. just don't ask me how to use it :)
13:46 < berz3rk> hmm
13:46 < berz3rk> i hate this :x
13:47 < berz3rk> the install script wants to remove everything from my usb drive
13:47 < berz3rk> and i cant edit it because i cant repack the initramfs :/
13:48 < CrazyTux> what are some of the major linux distros that are likely to be alive 10 to 20 years later?
13:48 < the_drow> Is it possible to change the ownership of files in a tar archive without extracting it?
13:48 < the_drow> CrazyTux, Probably CentOS and Debian
13:49 < CrazyTux> ok.
13:49 < zapotah> and ubuntu
13:49 < the_drow> REHL is a good choice if you only update your system for security patches
13:49 < stevendale> Back :)
13:49 < the_drow> zapotah, Ubuntu is a commercial enterprise and they are not as big as RedHat. You can never tell.
13:50 < zapotah> the_drow: the distro will most certainly live even if canonical went away
13:50 < zapotah> the_drow: the community is humongous
13:50 < berz3rk> slackware
13:50 < berz3rk> haha
13:50 < CrazyTux> and would you consider random freezing of desktops a stability issue? would you categorize such a distro to be buggy?
13:50 < berz3rk> yes
13:50 < zapotah> pfft, desktop
13:50 < zapotah> who needs guis anyway
13:51 < berz3rk> *guys
13:51 < CrazyTux> non technical end users need GUI.
13:51 < berz3rk> they shouldnt be using linux
13:52 < berz3rk> because the industry doesnt care about them
13:52 < revel> Elitism, wonderful :D
13:52 < CrazyTux> have you heard of or used Mageia?
13:53 < CrazyTux> your opinion on this? https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major
13:55 < voiter> i'm logged in on a host. how do i get its fingerprint?
13:56 < bookworm> what fingerprint?
13:56 < bookworm> gpg, ssh, md5sum...
13:58 < revel> voiter: cat /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key.pub
13:58 < revel> Or ssh_host_rsa_key.pub, or whatever, depending on what key you want.
13:58 < revel> Assuming you want the ssh server key fingerprint, that is.
13:59 < voiter> revel, thanks
14:02 < CrazyTux> guys, do you consider ubuntu relatively bugfree and completely stable?
14:03 < voiter> CrazyTux, bugfree: no, completely stable: no. reliable enough: yes.
14:03 < revel> How stable do you want things to be? Generic day-to-day desktop usage, Debian server or CentOS server?
14:03 < notadeveloper> ?@?
14:04 < notadeveloper> its only sunday
14:04 < iodev> u0_a121_ you're on android
14:04 < iodev> cool
14:04 < mawk> only developers are allowed here sorry notadeveloper
14:04 < mawk> you must go
14:05 < notadeveloper> ok
14:05 < noodlepie> Programming is the most fun you can have with your mind!
14:05 < CrazyTux> why does even Ubuntu LTS freeze randomly.
14:05 < CrazyTux> I am just a non technical end user.
14:05 < mawk> it could come from hundreds of things
14:05 < CrazyTux> yes. For generic day to day desktop usage.
14:05 < ||JD||> iodev: you can stay
14:06 < ||JD||> assuming dev stands for developer and not for device
14:06 < CrazyTux>  I am using Ubuntu Mate 18.04.
14:06 < ||JD||> you are not a device are you?
14:07 < iodev> ||JD|| I'm a developer
14:07 < iodev> and a sys admin
14:08 < iodev> noodlepie yeah, you try gdb-ing, strace-ing an assembly program, it's lunacy!
14:08 < iodev> and then you realize on x64 you have to use syscall and not int 80h
14:08 < iodev> :D
14:08 < noodlepie> I like gdb, it does what I need.
14:09 < noodlepie> I use to use DEVPAC 2 on the Atari ST to develop 68k Assembler.
14:09 < noodlepie> That was a good assembler, debugger for its day.
14:10 < iodev> I use the nasm
14:10 < iodev> Netwide assembler :-)
14:10 < iodev> and gcc as compiler/linker (that is when I use C, x64 calling conventions and asm)
14:10 < noodlepie> gcc for me, gas and cpp. I'm strichtly GNU all the way as it provides for my the needs I have.
14:11 < iodev> AT&T syntax makes me ... sick
14:11 < iodev> I prefer Intel, inst dest src
14:11 < djph> iodev: ATT syntax?
14:11 < iodev> so mov eax, 3
14:12 < iodev> puts 3 in the eax register
14:12 < iodev> djph it's called AT&T (it's made by the same brilliant company)
14:12 < iodev> :D
14:12 < notadeveloper> zipzip
14:13 < JimBuntu> brilliant people, not company ;-D
14:13 < noodlepie> Shell scripting is such a neat way of coordinating your system.
14:13 < notadeveloper> i am tyfull for att
14:13 < notadeveloper> and the cloud
14:13 < djph> iodev: yeah, I know what you mean by "ATT Syntax" - I just don't know the *syntax* offhand.
14:13 < JimBuntu> AT&T hate when you say ATT
14:13 < notadeveloper> really
14:14 < notadeveloper> AT&T
14:14 < iodev> I didn't say ATT; I said AT&T
14:14 < JimBuntu> yes, they love the ampersand
14:14 < iodev> I am putting &amp;
14:14 < JimBuntu> iodev, I was directing that at djph
14:14 < djph> He's saying it to me ;)
14:14 < iodev> let me guess, Foo IRC for win 10 is not sending the ampersand?
14:14 < iodev> Foooo....
14:14 < djph> they can hate it all they like. It's still two fewer keypresses for me - they should be happy they're at least getting capitals.
14:15 < JimBuntu> djph, lol
14:15 < notadeveloper> it does im just meh
14:15 < JimBuntu> American Telephone and Telegraph
14:15 < notadeveloper> really
14:15 < notadeveloper> a telegraph
14:15 < djph> iodev: it's coming through fine from your end. *I* am the one typint "ATT"
14:15 < iodev> djph ahh
14:15 < djph> yeah, they started as a telegraph company.
14:15 < JimBuntu> That's what it stands for, yup
14:15 < notadeveloper> thats like hightech snailmail in the 70s 80s
14:16 < iodev> djph Intel is less keystrokes, no $, % nothing
14:16 < iodev> just mov eax, 3
14:16 < iodev> instead of mov $3, %eax, so 2 characters less
14:16 < djph> gotcha
14:16 < notadeveloper> oh
14:16 < JimBuntu> Telegraph wasn't really used in the 70s & 80s... it predates those decades... yet, they keep it in the name
14:16 < notadeveloper> is it telegram or telegraph
14:16 < iodev> telegram is a letter
14:16 < notadeveloper> did i mish mash
14:16 < notadeveloper> ahh
14:16 < iodev> that is read by the courier
14:16 < JimBuntu> It's telegraph and not telegram
14:16 < iodev> very short
14:17 < iodev> I mean like this. (dot is read stop) And this. (full stop is the end)
14:17 < djph> notadeveloper: no, "telegraph" was rapid communication in the 1800s, composed of Morse Code
14:17 < notadeveloper> what is telegram
14:17 < oleo> telegraph was the device
14:17 < JimBuntu> di di dit di di di dit di dit dah
14:17 < oleo> telegram were the messages
14:17 < iodev> notadeveloper I just explained what telegram is ^
14:18 < iodev> a short letter, read by the postman, . is stop and the final . is read full stop
14:18 < djph> "telegraphs" were the machines that operators used to transmit the messages sent on "telegrams"
14:19 < BluesKaj> sent on telegraph  wires
14:19 < iodev> notadeveloper like this: Hello. (stop) This is a note that you did not pay your mortgage. (stop) Your house will be repossessed. (full stop)
14:19 < JimBuntu> They used international code developed by Mr. Morse.
14:19 < oleo> so messages for the device == messages of the device, messages of the device == telegrams, telegrams contain the messages of the humans
14:19 < BluesKaj> the first internet
14:19 < notadeveloper> what about aliens
14:20 < oleo> someone pissed them off it seems
14:20 < notadeveloper> close encounter of the 3rd kind
14:20 < JimBuntu> notadeveloper, all answered are qualified with "on Earth, in our species timeframe"
14:20 < oleo> i haven't seen any on my flight!
14:20 < oleo> lol
14:20 < notadeveloper> ET phone home
14:20 < iodev> notadeveloper aliens are silly
14:21 < iodev> non-existant
14:21 < iodev> most likely
14:21 < djph> oleo: yeah, the message itself (usually written to paper) was the "telegram".  The operators then used the telegraph machines (and knowing morse code) to send them to the remote place, where the operator there translated back from morse code to a message on paper, which was then delivered to the recipient.
14:21 < JimBuntu> If ET wants to phone home, better use something that causes coherent data on the other end faster than photons travel.
14:21 < dka> what is the easiest way to run an android emulator on debian ? i want to play a multiplayer game I have on my phone
14:21 < BluesKaj> telegrams have nothing to do with "space aliens"
14:22 < djph> iodev: ehh, it's pretty arrogant to assume we're the only planet with life. Galaxy alone is huge -- but that also means, if there *were* aliens that could travel here they could wipe us out trivially.
14:23 < lukey> dj
14:23 < lukey> dka: https://www.osboxes.org/android-x86/
14:23 < JimBuntu> djph, yup. Any type II civilization would probably wipe us out
14:23 < iodev> djph alien life is a possibility
14:23 < iodev> 3rd encounter is idiocy :D
14:24 < notadeveloper> ty for the - complement
14:24 < iodev> they're not in our solar system, we checked, so ... it's all fantasy, none (if existant) can travel to us
14:24 < JimBuntu> iodev, actually, there is considerable renewed belief that titan could harbor life
14:24 < djph> well, we've checked the moon, and a little bit of Mars
14:25 < stevendale> Hey iodev :D
14:25 < djph> Titan is a possi ^ yeah, that
14:25 < JimBuntu> NASA and others think they have spotted it, plans are in the works to verify
14:25 < iodev> djph pls, we have checked with voyager probe
14:26 < notadeveloper> late
14:26 < dka> lukey, how can I install it from the terminal?
14:26 < dka> I have debian
14:26 < dka> I am noob
14:27 < JimBuntu> I don't mind of there is other life... I don't even mind if they are intelligent... or even more intelligent than us. I only mind if we/they are hostile. Otherwise, it doesn't impact my beliefs.
14:28 < JimBuntu> dka, seek how to install VirtualBox and how to use a VM.
14:28 < dka> I have VMplayer already installed
14:28 < djph> Current science pretty much assumes that outside the liquid water zone, life doesn't happen (apparently, current science has determined this to be 0.75 to 2.4 AU -- roughly 70 to 220 million miles away from a Sol-like star)
14:29 < JimBuntu> dka... well, then either seek how to convert a VirtualBox VM to work with VMPlayer... or see my previous post
14:29 < JimBuntu> djph, It's sad, but true, we have been looking for life that resembles ourselves... as it's the only life we know.
14:30 < djph> iodev: and there is one (1) other rocky planet in the goldilocks zone (mars), the outer solar system is all gas giants, and pretty much outta luck.
14:30 < djph> JimBuntu: true, but given it's all we know, it's a reasonable shot that "carbon-based, water-drinking life" is what we'd seek out.
14:31 < JimBuntu> djph, it's the specific conditions though... conditions that can also be caused by extreme gravitational forces causing the warming of a planetoids core.
14:31 < djph> JimBuntu: like Titan's proximity(IIRC) to Jupiter making it kinda/sorta liquid
14:31 < JimBuntu> life requires energy input, not specifically energy input from light
14:32 < notadeveloper> AMD has a stamp allover debian based distro
14:32 < notadeveloper> and by that i mean its like a Windows signature of every PC
14:32 < notadeveloper> wow
14:32 < notadeveloper> They have awesome products that are well priced
14:33 < notadeveloper> + they have a stamp on a billion consoles
14:33 < notadeveloper> they are recuperating from their operation problem and by that i mean manufacturing facilities
14:34 < mawk> when I send something to the internet but with destination interface being loopback, it's as if the packet is being routed right ? it will pass through the iptables FORWARD chain and so on
14:35 < notadeveloper> they also have upcomming refresh of cpus hopefully they have fixed the spectre and meltdown bugs
14:35 < Xiretza> mawk: what do you mean by "destination iface is loopback"?
14:35 < noodlepie> Linux semaphores look interesting
14:35 < mawk> if this is the case why on earth does `ip route get 8.8.8.8 oif lo' doesn't give me the right outgoing interface, on par with my policy routing rules
14:35 < djph> mawk: if you send something with dest=lo ... it's not going anywhere
14:35 < mawk> Xiretza: I query the route for 8. 8.8.8, having set oif to lo
14:35 < mawk> unless forwarding is enabled djph
14:36 < mawk> sysctl -w net.ipv4.conf.all.forwarding=1
14:36 < noodlepie> I studied in general them at University while the lecturer taught up MIPS Assembler with "Test and Set" instructions. I prefer the ARM was of doing this personally. It's a laugh!
14:36 < djph> mawk: err, but loopback is a local virtual interface that doesn't, well, do anything.
14:37 < mawk> I've already used this trick to make local traffic pass through FORWARDING djph
14:37 < notadeveloper> intel is kinda like in the duality
14:37 < djph> mawk: interesting...
14:37 < mawk> adding a route like `ip route add local 0.0.0.0/0 dev lo table 42'
14:37 < notadeveloper> that would never kiss and make up
14:37 < mawk> then using policy routing I send packets that have the right fwmark to that routing table
14:38 < mawk> and bingo packets pass through FORWARDING or INPUT, and I can use transparent proxying or any other iptables goodies
14:39 < mawk> some configurations implying loopback don't work, but here ip route get doesn't make an error, it just returns a non-sensical address
14:39 < mawk> I have a policy routing rule that says look in the main table, but suppress the 0.0.0.0/0 rule, then look in the wireguard table if nothing has been found before
14:39 < mawk> that permits me to still access my LAN but route all other traffic through the VPN
14:40 < notadeveloper> i think what AMD did when they released all their good stuff is them saying they are back and with the gpu they are well ahead of intel
14:40 < mawk> so things like `ip route get 8.8.8.8' correctly evaluate the policy routing rules and give me the address of the wireguard interface
14:40 < notadeveloper> now intel has like a cpu socket that looks like an AMD Threadripper
14:42 < mawk> then I was looking for a trick to get the canonical source ip for a specific interface, and it was something like `ip route get 0.0.0.0/0 oif $IFACE' even though ip doesn't support that, I did it with the raw netlink socket; it looks like it's working for every interface but not for lo; I'd have expected lo to make an error, not to return a non-sensical address that is *never* selected unless the packet is
14:42 < mawk> destined to the correct prefix/have the right fwmark
14:55 < bbugyi200> Is there a standard (XDG compliant) place to store log files?
14:56 < bbugyi200> I'm using XDG_DATA_HOME currently, but that doesn't feel right.
14:57 < bbugyi200> (These are user log files. The script does not have root privileges.)
15:01 < djph> $HOME/where-ever-you-want
15:02 < djph> perhaps $HOME/.yourprogram/log (hidden directory optional)
15:10 < AlexCDev> Hi
15:11 < jim> hi
15:12 < AlexCDev> I had a question then answered it myself
15:12 < AlexCDev> >.>
15:13 < jim> I had some popcorn, it salted itself... then ate itself
15:15 < AlexCDev> what a shame.
15:15 < jim> yeah, I was hungry at the time
15:15 < notmike> You the real MVP
15:15 < AlexCDev> *da
15:17 < jim> good job though... it shows you're starting to reason
15:22 < bbugyi200> djph: Thanks. I guess I'll just keep it in XDG_DATA_DIR then. Its not worth creating another directory over if its not standardized.
15:23 < triceratux> https://itsfoss.com/void-linux-crisis/
15:31 < djph> well, that's unfortunate
15:36 < royal_screwup21> I'm running a build command that's putting  a lot of stuff on terminal that's always a pain to copy-paste, in case of errors. How do I store it in a file? command > traceback.txt?
15:37 < badsekter> royal_screwup21: i think there is a pastebinit application that you can use
15:37 < royal_screwup21> badsekter: no, I'm just looking for a way to store the traceback of command into a file
15:37 < badsekter> royal_screwup21: oh right then it is > direction like you said
15:38 < kmurphy4_> or 2> traceback.txt
15:38 < royal_screwup21> cool thanks
15:38 < kmurphy4_> if it’s stderr
15:47 < JimBuntu> royal_screwup21, I suggest you also look into the `tee` command... so you can see the output AND store it in a file
15:49 < royal_screwup21> thanks for the tip JimBuntu
16:11 < MrElendig> royal_screwup21: sane build systems write their own logfile
16:11 < MrElendig> +too
16:22 < kazdax> i was just in the C room asking
16:22 < kazdax> what IDE should i use for gcc
16:22 < djph> vim
16:22 < kazdax> and i came up with vim..since it has syntax highlightning by default
16:22 < kazdax> yea
16:23 < kazdax> thats what i really wanted was the highlightning feature
16:23 < kazdax> and since vim has it ..i dont see the use to use anys pecialized IDE besides that
16:23 < kazdax> unless there is something like what visual studio has ..intellisense ?
16:23 < furrymcgee> kdevelop has nice colors
16:23 < kazdax> do you need that for C anyways
16:24 < kazdax> well i need to get used to using one editor and i think vim works fine
16:24 < djph> no, one does not "need" autocompletion.
16:24 < kazdax> i just need to get a good tutorial on vim and learn the important commands
16:24 < badsekter> kazdax: joe is a user friendly editor too
16:25 < kazdax> there is also nano ..but i dont think these editors are as functional as vim is
16:26 < kazdax> there was this book on vim i was using and when i saw what vim could do with just commands..i started liking vim even more..just need to find that book or find a good tutorial and relearn the commands
16:26 < badsekter> kazdax: you could look into emacs too
16:26 < MrElendig> neovim + deoplete + clang
16:26 < MrElendig> unless you must use gcc
16:26 < kazdax> i am not stuck to one compiler but setting up the compiler is the issue
16:26 < kazdax> isnt gcc good enough anyways
16:26 < kazdax> ?
16:27 < MrElendig> also https://github.com/neomake/neomake
16:27 < MrElendig> kazdax: clang comes with a really nice completer, nicer than plain old ctags
16:27 < MrElendig> (also depending on version of gcc, much nicer errors than gcc)
16:27 < MrElendig> though gcc is fine too
16:28 < MrElendig> downside of neovim is that there isn't a good gvim replacement for it (yet)
16:29 < notmike> Gcc supports c++20
16:29 < notmike> Even though c++ is a terrible language
16:30 < furrymcgee> gcc is good enough
16:32 < kazdax> i know some C ..i am just trying to use tutorials online to get my hands wet and then use the linux programming interface book
16:32 < kazdax> and hopefully join some project for linux or make my own software
16:32 < MrElendig> kazdax: do yourself a favor and learn rust instead :p
16:34 < kazdax> so whats rust
16:34 < kazdax> a better C language ?
16:34 < adrian_1908> I wouldn't say that learning C is a waste ever, especially in the context of Linux! Certainly a safer investment than Rust.
16:35 < kazdax> it might be a bit to much for me .. but i dont mind learning it ..if its whats new and happening
16:35 < kazdax> but the question i have ..are there books about rust system programming ?
16:35 < kazdax> and are there alot of rust programmers out there
16:35 < notmike> C is the best language you can learn, next to learning asm.
16:35 < lukey> Well if you know C, it is much easier to understand other Programming Languages too
16:35 < notmike> If you don't know it you're wack.
16:35 < kazdax> i know asm and c
16:35 < kazdax> x86 asm
16:35 < notmike> Everything is a pointer.
16:36 < notmike> x86 is irrelevant
16:36 < adrian_1908> C is happening, and will for another decade at least. Rust is new, but whether it's happening is debatable :)
16:36 < notmike> Rust is for Mo$illa fanboys only
16:36 < triceratux> woo woo the dedoimedo guy solves yet another samba problem https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-beaver-samba-shares.html
16:37 < MrElendig> notmike: bs
16:37 < MrElendig> I hate mozilla, but I would still take rust over C any day
16:37 < adrian_1908> kazdax: Learn C first. Nothing has to keep you from learning e.g. Rust afterwards.
16:38 < adrian_1908> kazdax: or rather, keep learning C (you said you know some).
16:38 < MrElendig> (mozilla can go die in a fire -> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2018/05/02/firefox-isnt-adding-ads-its-sponsored-content/ )
16:38 < kazdax> yea just gonana produce a few codes with C ..get proficiant and then on the second i want to learn python and bash but that will come automatically as i study for my linux administrator certification
16:39 < kazdax> or atleast thats what i plan
16:39 < notmike> Learning C is like falling in love
16:39 < kazdax> anyways i gotta go buy me some smokes .. brb
16:39 < MrElendig> that is on the level of "it's not lies, it is alternate reality/history"
16:39 < triceratux> kazdax: https://www.maketecheasier.com/turn-vim-word-processor/
16:40 < triceratux> all browsers are equal, its just that some browsers are more equal than others
16:40 < notmike> elinks is the only browser worth mentioning
16:52 < stevendale> Holy crap
16:52 < stevendale> It's almost 1 AM xD
16:53 < stevendale> Got busy playing Skyrim xD
16:58 < john_rambo> When I boot my PC is see a "?" in the nm-applet ....It stays like that for 3-4 minutes then the connected icon appears ...Any troubleshooting tips ?
16:58 < triceratux> what distro ?
16:59 < john_rambo> triceratux, Ubuntu 18.04
16:59 < triceratux> ah
16:59 < triceratux> is the connection definitely down during those 3-4 min ?
17:00 < john_rambo> triceratux, No, I can browse the web...
17:18 < Hdphn> john_rambo in i3?
17:18 < Hdphn> ???
17:18 < Hdphn> ...
17:20 < THE_GFR|WORK> hey everyone does anyone know where I might get a copy of the Intuit QuickBooks Database Manager version 18.0 for Linux?  I need it for QuickBooks Enterprise 8 and Intuit does not have it currently on their site any archive I might be able to look in?
17:21 < poopBot> how did manjaro beacomed top distro on distrowatch ?
17:21 < MrElendig> bots
17:22 < poopBot> probbaly human bots :)
17:22 < Hdphn> lool
17:22 < MrElendig> made of poop
17:22 < Hdphn> aint nobody got time for manual installation of arch
17:23 < Hdphn> :P
17:23 < Hdphn> is there a way to install ubuntu 18.04 using systemd
17:23 < Hdphn> rather than
17:23 < Hdphn> shitty grub
17:23 < poopBot> duno , but there are other arch distros too if just want install time
17:23 < poopBot> isent systemd that thingy for deamons and stuff
17:24 < revel> Hdphn: You mean systemd-boot?
17:24 < Hdphn> arch is not getting work done distro. no offense if you value your time arch should be on your last in your list
17:24 < Hdphn> revel: yes
17:24 < Hdphn> its faster. grub is shit slow
17:24 < revel> No idea.
17:24 < Hdphn> revel: you on ubuntu?
17:25 < revel> How often do you reboot your computer anyway for that minute to matter?
17:25 < revel> Hdphn: No.
17:25 < Hdphn> revel: then?
17:25 < revel> Gentoo.
17:25 < triceratux> poopBot: they pulled an ubuntu on arch
17:26 < revel> triceratux: They whuh?
17:26 < Hdphn> revel: are you jobless buddy?
17:26 < Hdphn> or homeless?
17:26 < revel> I'm a student, currently.
17:26 < Hdphn> ah no wonder
17:26 < revel> I'm not sure if it's a job, so, maybe the former.
17:26 < poopBot> triceratux, you mean they aded systemd to arch , ye i know that i am not using arch am using voidlinux , just was suprised manjaro was first
17:27 < qrvpzvb> I'm an arch user as well, and that's totally not true
17:27 < qrvpzvb> arch is the best distro to have ever existed
17:27 < Hdphn> lol
17:27 < Hdphn> sure if you have time
17:27 < Hdphn> and you prefer tweaking your system rather than getting work done
17:28 < triceratux> they saw a distro which was great with a community convinced it couldnt be greater, & made it better to wide popularity & acclaim
17:28 < triceratux> standard linux
17:28 < Hdphn> I laugh so hard when people say elementary OS is alternative to macOS
17:28 < Hdphn> HAHAHAHA
17:29 < Hdphn> insulting macOS lol
17:29 < revel> Hdphn: Are you just here to troll?
17:29 < Hdphn> here you go. troll card
17:29 < revel> "ur distro sux lol HAIL MACOS" on ##linux
17:29 < Hdphn> the last savior
17:29 < Hdphn> :P
17:34 < n-iCe> hi
17:35 < n-iCe> bookworm: here?
17:35 < bookworm> yes
17:35 < n-iCe> awesome! I removed Debian yesterday, lot of isues. could not even log in my system, and a lot of boot errors.
17:36 < n-iCe> because of radeon and amdgpu stuff
17:36 < n-iCe> So I installed ubuntu minimal.iso everything is perfect now.
17:36 < triceratux> what can possibly be better than original vanilla debian ?
17:36 < bookworm> good to hear :)
17:36 < triceratux> ah
17:36 < bookworm> Arch :P
17:36 < n-iCe> the thing is, I installed lxde minimal desktop installation, not sure I like it.
17:37 < n-iCe> lol
17:37 < n-iCe> hi triceratux
17:37 < n-iCe> I bought a new laptop.
17:41 < ejr> can you guys think of any other good places to seek ethernet internet access in the city, apart from libraries and universities?
17:42 < pnbeast> ejr, if you can pry open a door or window in most nice houses and apartments, you can probably find internet access somewhere inside.
17:43 < ejr> pnbeast: hehe yeah, but I'm not a thief
17:43 < pnbeast> Neither are you on topic.
17:43 < triceratux> pnbeast: http://www.fedex.com/us/office/computer-rental.html ?
17:44 < kubast2> lzip ,xz or lzma ? do they differ a lot ?
17:44 < aib> help! something's hijacked my shift+space; it's underlining words instead of inserting a space. This is happening all over X. Some kind of IME?
17:45 < luka_33> wut
17:45 < Mistell> wut
17:45 < Mistell> => did you restart
17:45 < n-iCe> ut
17:45 < luka_33> kill -9 -1 better be safe
17:45 < tomty89> huh
17:45 < Mistell> kilall underliner if that doesn'
17:45 < Mistell> t work
17:45 < luka_33> better yet sudo rm -rf --no-perserve-root
17:45 < luka_33> Could be h a c k e r s
17:46 < Mistell> probablu
17:46 < Mistell> lordy I'm toasted today.
17:46 < tomty89> seems like everybody's gone wild
17:46 < pnbeast> I was going to say:  seems like Friday night, not Sunday morning.
17:46 < Mistell> how tf do I achieve padding w/ w3mimgdisplay my god this looks terrible
17:46 < luka_33> I fucking hate subdays
17:47 < luka_33> Sundays*
17:47 < Mistell> +subdays
17:47 < Mistell> both suck
17:47 < tomty89> or subway
17:47 < luka_33> ngl Subway is pretty awesome
17:47 < luka_33> Cheap and shitty sandwiches
17:48 < luka_33> Everything you can fit on it
17:48 < Mistell> it's 'ight, $3 sub of the day gets a dev through lunch so
17:48 < Mistell> fuck it right
17:48 < luka_33> Plus underpaid employees who don't give a shit
17:52 < luka_33> hmm is anyone a USB/audio guru here?
17:53 < luka_33> My USB headset for work isn't being recognized as functional by linux
17:53 < luka_33> lsusb shows it as uninstalled
17:53 < BluesKaj> Mistell, just a reminder to leave F-bombs out the conversation, it's not encouraged here
17:54 < rumpel> this channel is streamed in realtime into classrooms around the world
17:55 < pnbeast> I guess they're getting quite an education, eh, rumpel?
17:56 < rumpel> pnbeast, only the best
17:56 < oplevunus> luka_33: What do you mean by uninstalled? It doesn't have a driver assigned or it doesn't show up?
17:57 < luka_33> I'm assuming it's lacking a driver
17:57 < luka_33> That said, linux isn't a supported operating system via the manufactorer but I was hoping for a work around
17:58 < Mistell> Sorry BluesKaj, noted.
18:00 < luka_33> For clarification it's a 3.5mm headset/mic combo with a USB device that combines them
18:09 < ychaouche> hello ##linux
18:10 < ychaouche> which is better to copy a 62Gb file from one partition to another ?
18:10 < pnbeast> Yes.
18:10 < ychaouche> I was reading about dd and it seems it is mainly used to copy whole disks
18:10 < ychaouche> or whole partitions
18:10 < ychaouche> but not particular files
18:10 < ychaouche> so, should I go with cp ?
18:12 < dgurney> I mean surely there's no reason to overthink copying a file, so yes, by all means use cp
18:12 < pnbeast> Yes, you should go with cp.  It's the program that's used to copy files!
18:13 < ychaouche> dgurney: I was hoping dd would be faster for some reason
18:13 < djph> ychaouche: nope
18:13 < dgurney> that makes no sense
18:13 < djph> ^
18:14 < ychaouche> I don't know how copying works anyways to be honest. Will it just read MAX_READ_BUFFER_SIZE or will it read a fixed amount of bytes I don't know
18:14 < ychaouche> or if that even matters
18:14 < dgurney> don't worry about it, normal people don't need to understand how copying works internally
18:14 < oplevunus> ychaouche: Thinking about it will take longer than any marginal performance gain you might get from it
18:14 < pnbeast> ychaouche, interestingly, I heard there's a secret copy of the cp source code that's been leaked to the internet by someone, maybe at a hacker site called GNU!
18:14 < ychaouche> oplevunus: :)
18:26 < john_rambo> When I boot my PC the nm-applet is stuck on a "?" symbol like this >>> https://ibb.co/cW4KDn
18:28 < triceratux> john_rambo: did you look at the contents of your /etc/resolv.conf ?
18:29 < john_rambo> triceratux, https://paste2.org/xC2Wsgcx
18:30 < triceratux> hrm nothing out of the ordinary there ...
18:31 < john_rambo> triceratux, Do u think my LAN card is malfunctioning ?
18:33 < triceratux> john_rambo: there are some similar bugs in the ubuntusphere. it may come down to adjusting a networkmanager setting https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1722256
18:41 < genewitch> what happened to honeypots/honeynets/tarpits? are they called something else now? is there another way to accomplish the same thing?
18:41 < genewitch> everything i am looking at "last updated: 3 years ago" or the last posts on the sites are "2007"
18:43 < pnbeast> Greenpeace bought them all to use against the Japanese whalers.
18:45 < Sitri> They're still called the same thing
18:46 < genewitch> well, what's the most active project? Are they all non-free now?
18:50 < aaa___> i have a question
18:50 < aaa___> what is the purpose of checking system monitor?
18:51 < mawk> genewitch: yes
18:51 < mawk> install packages xtables-addons-*
18:51 < mawk> then it's ok
18:52 < toothe> is there a way to have GNome's "activities" button not take over the entire screen>?
18:52 < toothe> I really dislike that.
18:52  * pnbeast awards a gold star to aaa___.
18:52 < aaa___> why
18:52 < toothe> was that to me?
18:56 < aaa___> are there anything superior than systerm monitor
18:56 < aaa___> to view library and the all..?
19:03 < notadeveloper> wb theraspberry
19:03 < notadeveloper> Theroxat
19:04 < genewitch> ~
19:04 < _KaszpiR_> anyone here may got idea how to downloclock anciend radeon HD 5000 ? wanna lower power consumption when idle
19:05 < notadeveloper> yes
19:05 < rendolf> a page is retarded, seems to be made for IE or something. FF nor chrome "works". Are there any non-mozilla options?
19:05 < notadeveloper> hi genewitch
19:08 < genewitch> rendolf: nearly everything is webkit now
19:09 < pnbeast> rendolf, you could run it through a proxy like squid and change your user agent.  Sometimes that tricks sites into delivering their craploads.  I think even wget might have a user agent option.
19:10 < triceratux> rendolf: opera, falkon
19:11 < genewitch> opera is webkit now too isn't it?
19:12 < triceratux> looks like it uses blink
19:12 < genewitch> which is a fork of webkit that google uses
19:13 < genewitch> it's chromium
19:13 < aaa___> can i view loaded library with htop?
19:13 < genewitch> aaa___: maybe? it's more like top, with a large display for processor usage
19:14 < genewitch> and falkon is a wrapper on webkit, too
19:14 < seven-eleven> hi is it possible to restart the network daemon without closing my established SSH session?
19:15 < seven-eleven> i'd want to do `sudo ifdown --exclude=lo -a && sudo ifup --exclude=lo -a`
19:15 < genewitch> so right now there's two web layout engines, the one in edge, and everything else
19:16 < badsekter> seven-eleven: i am guessing this way it is impossible, but you could send a kill -HUP signal to the daemon and maybe that could work?
19:16 < genewitch> so if you need to load something designed for IE in linux you're probably going to need to use wine
19:16 < seven-eleven> mhm
19:16 < __Myst__> Is there a way to pipe in some input at first, but then use stdin?
19:16 < __Myst__> well
19:16 < __Myst__> use terminal input?
19:16 < pnbeast> seven-eleven. what's this "network daemon"?  You mean just shut down the interface?
19:17 < seven-eleven> networking.service
19:17 < seven-eleven> yeah interface
19:17 < badsekter> __Myst__: you mean like: command < text  ?
19:17 < __Myst__> badsekter: yes, but after "text" is over i want to get asked for input
19:17 < genewitch> seven-eleven: why do you need to restart it
19:17 < genewitch> seven-eleven: and/or why does it matter if you lose your ssh session
19:18 < aaa___> yes ?
19:18 < seven-eleven> genewitch, i added network rules to interfaces which might make the remote system unavailable I worry if I missed something
19:18 < aaa___> how to view library plz
19:19 < badsekter> __Myst__: you could cat > text, finish up your input that follows with ctrl-D
19:19 < sauvin> aaa___, what "library"?
19:19 < seven-eleven> genewitch, so worst case I'd have to install everything newly :-)
19:19 < __Myst__> badsekter: i want interactive input however
19:19 < aaa___> .so library
19:19 < genewitch> seven-eleven: no way to see the terminal without SSH (i.e. noVNC or spice, hypervisor)?
19:19 < aaa___> from htop or other monitoring tool if you know
19:20 < genewitch> sauvin: he wants to see all currently loaded libraries, i think
19:20 < seven-eleven> genewitch, hmm let me see
19:20 < badsekter> aaa___: i hink you want to use 'ld' with the executable
19:20 < sauvin> All currently loaded shared objects? Hrm.
19:20 < badsekter> __Myst__: how do you mean interactive? what exactly do you want to do?
19:20 < seven-eleven> ah loss the SSH connection already
19:20 < genewitch> seven-eleven: if you're on AWS, i don't think there is by default, but lots of other providers give you a back way in if you lose networking
19:20 < __Myst__> badsekter: I figured it out via google, the solutioni s `(cat file && cat) | program`
19:21 < triceratux> aaa___: ldconfig -p ?
19:21 < badsekter> cool
19:21 < turkeyhand> should I be using the linux kernel AND the linux hardened kernel?
19:21 < turkeyhand> or just one
19:21 < genewitch> seven-eleven: also if you just broke incoming connections but the server still has networking, you can have it do a tunnel out, and connect back in through the tunnel, but you have to have that come up automatically
19:21 < genewitch> and set that up before you start tinkering
19:21 < seven-eleven> genewitch, oh yeah, seems I have kvm access from the web console \o/
19:22 < genewitch> seven-eleven: there you go!
19:22 < seven-eleven> genewitch, thanks for the hint! :-)
19:22 < aaa___> ok i will try
19:22 < pnbeast> turkeyhand, two kernels at once?  Sounds awesome!
19:22 < aaa___> but any tool to view this fast
19:22 < aaa___> like htop for exe?
19:22 < genewitch> seven-eleven: no problem. "on the metal" real servers also have iDRAC or iLO, a separate interface that gives you console view, including during boot
19:23 < genewitch> You can even "insert a CD"
19:24 < genewitch> SO what is a non-free honeypot/honeynet/tarpit that i can buy a license for?
19:24 < aaa___> library loaded by daemon of courses
19:25 < aaa___> what is honeynet tarpit??
19:26 < genewitch> aaa___: they're software you run that make it seem like you're running insecure software on a server, that traps "hackers" into trying to exploit the server
19:26 < genewitch> aaa___: then you use the information you get from their connections and commands and downloads onto the server to protect other servers
19:26 < aaa___> what the dif between honeynet and tarpit?
19:26 < pnbeast> genewitch, this is not Consumer Reports [Special Computer Security Projects Issue].  This is a channel about Linux.
19:27 < bls> this channel doesn't really advertise or support commercial software
19:27 < genewitch> aaa___: honeypots are what i said, and tarpits are like that but they're very slow.
19:27 < genewitch> aaa___: i.e. it slows down automated tools so they can't attack as many servers
19:27 < genewitch> Guys, i get it, but all the FLOSS stuff looks like development stopped in 2007
19:28 < genewitch> so i am wondering what the name changed to, or who bought everything
19:28 < bls> that doesn't change the charter of this channel
19:28 < aaa___> ok
19:28 < aaa___> interesting i'm also interested then
19:28 < aaa___> what you do with theses data after genewith?
19:29 < genewitch> aaa___: add rules to firewalls and intrusion prevention systems, usually
19:30 < genewitch> aaa___: and malware/virus scanners, too. generally if someone "breaks in" they will download malware/trojans and try to install them on the system, you can get information about those softwares and add the signatures to your virus scanners
19:30 < aaa___> ok clamav?
19:30 < aaa___> what sort of signature you add?
19:30 < genewitch> aaa___: yeah,
19:31 < aaa___> hash or other
19:32 < badsekter> genewitch: forgive me for my ignorance but do people log in to linux/unix systems with telnet or ssh as users in this day and age? i thought it was a 90s thing... i mean i don't understand what malicious users you are defending your system from
19:32 < aaa___> but you do all of this manually or script?
19:33 < genewitch> badsekter: there's web application honeypots like glastopf/snare/tanner
19:33 < aaa___> do you know any good tool for system monitoring
19:33 < aaa___> to see process but also library loaded
19:33 < turkeyhand> should I just be using the hardened kernel
19:33 < turkeyhand> they're both installed
19:33 < bls> badsekter: most linux systems get exploited through things like wordpress or mongodb
19:33 < badsekter> genewitch: what server is it that you are defending from hackers?
19:34 < badsekter> bls, linux systems that are web servers?
19:34 < bls> badsekter: web server, database server, mail server, name server, etc
19:34 < genewitch> badsekter: i'm not defending, i am purposefully making an insecure server
19:34 < genewitch> and i am trying to find out what is currently in development (hence why i asked in here an hour ago ;)
19:35 < aaa___> yeah e too
19:35 < badsekter> bls, do hackers still try to log in somehow as users and try to get the /etc/passwd like in the old days?
19:35 < bls> badsekter: not much value in that. now the thing to do is turn the server into a malware host, a DDoS zombie, or an altcoin miner
19:36 < genewitch> aaa___: /proc has a bunch of numbers, those are process IDs, inside each one is a file called "maps" that shows all .so loaded
19:36 < badsekter> bls, oh of course
19:38 < bls> one /etc/password on a single host isn't of much value when you can say hack an insecure twitter web app/DB and get the passwords for all of its uses
19:38 < bls> users
19:38 < aaa___> ok thanks
19:38 < badsekter> bls, i see
19:39 < genewitch> bls: so all these "failed authentication" on SSHD are nothing, i can just ignore them?
19:39 < genewitch> 100+ a day
19:40 < genewitch> or all the people running exploit frameworks on my nodejs servers
19:40 < genewitch> Must just be time travellers from the 90s
19:40 < bls> not sure what that has to do with what I said
19:40 < genewitch> GET /admin.php
19:40 < badsekter> genewitch: what kind of servers you run?
19:41 < genewitch> I am disagreeing with your statement, as there's thousands of attempts to break in to my couple servers a day
19:41 < aaa___> what server you are in usually gene?
19:41 < aaa___> genewith
19:41 < genewitch> Gentoo
19:41 < bls> I don't recall claiming people aren't trying to break in to servers
19:41 < badsekter> i mean what the server is for? web server?
19:42 < pnbeast> bls, yeah, clearly "your statement" was wrong!  Because probes.  You know.  Admit it.
19:42 < genewitch> web applications, some of them
19:42 < pnbeast> genewitch, do you have *anything* to say or ask about Linux?
19:42 < aaa___> why you are chanops?
19:42 < LtL> genewitch: change the ssh port and firewall accordingly, those attempts will decrease dramatically. Half of the ip's are probably China
19:42 < genewitch> pnbeast: you gunna kick me? because i asked "what are honeypots that are still in development" three times
19:43 < aaa___> agree
19:43 < sauvin> Before I changed my ssh port, virtually ALL the bogus login attempts were Chinese.
19:43 < pnbeast> genewitch, nope, not even a bit.
19:43 < aaa___> lots of hacker in china
19:43 < badsekter> is it not a solution to simply not run a sshd or telnetd if you can sit in front of the machine yourself? i means a precaution to break-ins
19:43 < aaa___> because chinese good
19:43 < genewitch> disable root login and use private keys
19:44 < bls> badsekter: yep, or you can just turn off password authentication if you do need to run sshd and continue to ignore the failed password attempts
19:44 < genewitch> unless, you know, ssh has a 0-day
19:44 < pnbeast> badsekter, if you don't need to log in remotely, you'd be a fool to run sshd.  You'd be a bigger fool to run telnetd.
19:44 < badsekter> right
19:45 < genewitch> there's a reason ubuntu doesn't enable sshd by default, hah
19:46 < aaa___> do you know process monitor on windows or process hacker, i look for the same
19:47 < genewitch> aaa___: do you need "currently loaded" or "all libraries required by all software"
19:47 < bls> aaa___: ask ##windows for windows software
19:48 < aaa___> current , but i think lsof -p do the job a little
19:53 < genewitch> aaa___: sudo awk '/\.so/{print $6}' /proc/1/maps | sort -u
19:54 < genewitch> will show all .so used by PID 1
19:54 < genewitch> aaa___: i am working on a 1 liner that doesn't require sudo for you
19:54 < aaa___> yes i know but need to remember this shit
19:55 < aaa___> sysadmin only relying on tool like htop ?
19:55 < aaa___> not serious if this is the case
19:56 < turkeyhand> I should be using just one kernel right
19:57 < bls> you can't run more than one, so yes
19:57 < ||JD||> turkeyhand: you can install as many as you want, you boot only one of them at time
19:57 < pnbeast> turkeyhand, does your computer boot and work?  If so, what's your *real* question?
19:58 < turkeyhand> I'm not sure which one is booting
19:58 < turkeyhand> if I uninstall the linux kernel and leave the linux hardened
19:58 < turkeyhand> is it going to boot
19:58 < pnbeast> turkeyhand, most likely, you have a program called "grub" on your computer.  When you start it, it selects a default kernel to boot.  It can be asked to start others, but only one will be the default.
19:59 < turkeyhand> yeah I've been distro hopping for ages, I know what grub is
19:59 < DX099> hi all
19:59 < pnbeast> Apparently not.
19:59 < DX099> I have a program reading from a file
20:00 < DX099> I want to write this file "on the fly", so that I never have to touch an actual file
20:00 < kf0> how can we inject this : Error : HY000 1 unrecognized token: "'"
20:01 < pnbeast> WTF is going on with the loons, today?
20:01 < aaa___> you can view this channel if not registered ?
20:02 < bls> DX099: you'll need to rephrase that, because it doesn't make much sense right now
20:02 < CrazyTux> hello, is Lxqt a fully functional, stable and complete DE now? fit for end users? or does it still lack something?
20:02 < bls> kf0: without some context, we have no idea what you're talking about
20:03 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Install it and make a test run?
20:03 < aaa___> you want write in memory
20:03 < aaa___> temp?
20:03 < kf0> bls can i pm you?
20:03 < aaa___> why
20:03 < CrazyTux> hexnewbie, I will. But, what's your opinion?
20:04 < CrazyTux> I needed to know the technical details of it.
20:04 < CrazyTux> I am just a non technical end user.
20:04 < oplevunus> Maybe he wants a (named?) pipe?
20:04 < genewitch> aaa___: FOOF=`ps x | awk '{ print $1 }' |sort -u | uniq -u`; for p in $FOOF; do lsof -P -T -p $p ; done
20:05 < DX099> @bls I want to be able to : program -file < $(echo "file content")
20:05 < triceratux> CrazyTux: lxqt is great as long as you go with 0.12.0. the fedora 28 spin for example is still at 0.11.1 which can be improved
20:05 < genewitch> aaa___: you need lsof, which isn't there by default on gentoo, no idea if it's default on other OSes
20:05 < DX099> but obviously, it doesn't work that way
20:06 < triceratux> CrazyTux: hows the crashes & freezeups in ubuntu 18.04 lts treating ya ?
20:06 < bls> DX099: bash can do that
20:06 < oplevunus> DX099: It may work if you do program -file <(echo "file content")
20:06 < genewitch> aaa___: and if "ps x" doesn't show you all the processes you care about, edit that part (i.e. use ps auxxx or whatever)
20:07 < bls> ah, and oplevunus has the syntax
20:07 < hexnewbie> DX099: What's the actual problem? The program writes to the input file?
20:07 < CrazyTux> triceratux, I have installed Ubuntu Mate 18.04. Even that froze a couple of time since its installation.
20:07 < pnbeast> Whatever you do, DX099, don't explain your real problem clearly.  If you want a pipe, use a pipe.
20:07 < jason85> How would I do a pointer scan in linux?
20:08 < bls> jason85: what's a pointer scan?
20:08 < pnbeast> jason85, what's a pointer scan?
20:08 < oplevunus> jason85: what's a pointer scan?
20:08 < pnbeast> I said it second, oplevunus!
20:08 < mawk> like garbage collection jason85 ?
20:08 < aaa___> stop copying bls
20:08 < CrazyTux> triceratux, LTS is supposed to be more stable. Strangely Manjaro which is a rolling release distro never froze. Not even once.
20:08 < bls> no. everyone needs to stop making sense
20:09 < CrazyTux> I am running both these on the same laptop. In a multiboot setup.
20:09 < genewitch> aaa___: did that one liner work for you
20:09 < pnbeast> I wonder if some "hacking team" decided to DOS the channel by asking nonsense questions, today.
20:09 < triceratux> CrazyTux: the lts release is merely a disclosure of what canonical are committed to over the next 5yrs. 18.04 wont actually be stable enough to run until 18.04.1 or 18.04.2 at the earliest. it was the same story with 16.04
20:09 < aaa___> yes but i don't need command line
20:09 < jason85> Like in cheat engine when you want to find a memory address it is not static, so you perform a pointer scan to find the offsets and follow pointers
20:09 < genewitch> jason85: you can use meltdown ;-)
20:09 < triceratux> CrazyTux: 16.04 is up to 16.04.4 atm & thats likely what ubuntu users should be running
20:09 < pnbeast> Great, another game who wants to break WoW or something like that.
20:09 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: That's not what stable means. Stable means unchanging, which includes no major new versions, so if crash bugs are present in a stable release and they don't constitute security holes or are easily backportable, the stable release is going to keep crashing (like every Debian release with KDE)
20:09 < pnbeast> *gamer
20:10 < CrazyTux> triceratux, before this I was using Ubuntu Mate 16.04. It had the same issue.
20:10 < CrazyTux> I installed 18.04 afresh.
20:11 < hexnewbie> (all crash bugs should be considered security holes, but oh well, GUIs have too many of them to care about that)
20:11 < triceratux> CrazyTux: well that explains why manjaro is finally on top of mint on distrowatch. keep that mx-17 handy in case you need something that works
20:11 < CrazyTux> I have tested other distros on the same laptop. Like Solus, Mageia. I didn't face such issues while using them.
20:12 < CrazyTux> triceratux, I liked MX 17 also. But, it is not patched for Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities yet.
20:14 < triceratux> CrazyTux: yep thats an issue. the best luck ive had so far with 18.04 lts has been voyager tbh https://voyagerlive.org/
20:14 < triceratux> pardon my french
20:14 < DX099> hexnewbie: No it reads from a file. But I need to pass a parameter on the fly. It reads that key from a file. I would like to pass that file from the LI
20:14 < DX099> *CLI
20:15 < CrazyTux> triceratux, so far Manjaro has been pretty stable.
20:15 < bls> DX099: this is still either not making sense, or you're leaving something out
20:15 < genewitch> DX099: it *HAS* to read it from a file?
20:15 < bls> all it sounds like so far is that you want to read something from a file, but not read from file
20:15 < CrazyTux> triceratux, what's your opinion on Solus and PCLinuxOS?
20:15 < hexnewbie> DX099: OK, but what are you trying to avoid? As noted, bash has process substitution. But you'd still have to read the file to get the contents to then pass it to the program
20:16 < genewitch> it makes sense, some applications need a file argument, some can read from stdin, he wants to have it read from a "file" that's created during applicatoin instantiation
20:16 < DX099> genewitch: yes, I wouldn't have asked if the value could be passed from a parameter
20:16 < triceratux> CrazyTux: im running swagarch at the moment. no issues. its getting easier to create a user friendly distro from an arch base
20:17 < DX099> hexnewbie: I'm not trying to avoid anything, I want to read from something that looks like a file for the program
20:17 < hexnewbie> DX099: So process substitution, like oplevunus suggested above?
20:17 < bls> if it made sense, he'd just use < or <() and not be in here asking contradictory questions
20:17 < triceratux> CrazyTux: havent messed with solus. i ran pclos when i was doing my n00b internship. its got some advantages. theres better mandrake out there in the form of altlinux & i run their weeky xfce builds
20:18 < DX099> hexnewbie: I've already tried process subtitution. It appears the for the program, the result of echo IS the file, not its content
20:18 < triceratux> *weekly
20:18 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok. What about Mageia and OpenMandriva?
20:18 < hexnewbie> DX099: Um, what command did you try?
20:19 < DX099> hexnewbie: I was bitten by a double quotes
20:19 < DX099> I just used single quotes and it worked
20:19 < triceratux> CrazyTux: im still satisfied with my mageia install but i dont run it very much. they dont release all that often & ive started gravitating more towards current xorg & current kernels
20:19 < bls> if the program only reads from stdin, but you want it to read from a file, use program <file, if it only reads from a file but you want to use another programs stdout, use program <(otherprogram)
20:20 < oplevunus> I have no idea what that was about, but I'm glad it's fixed now
20:20 < hexnewbie> Not only there is process substitution, but there's /dev/stdin to pass as a file if the program doesn't support reading from stdin.
20:20 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok.
20:20 < DX099> oplevunus: thanks for your help
20:20 < kekePower> triceratux: Which version of Mageia are you using?
20:20 < triceratux> CrazyTux: have you looked at fedora 28 xfce at all ?
20:20 < DX099> hexnewbie: didn't think of that but it'll certainly help me in the future thanks
20:21 < genewitch> what was the command!
20:21 < pnbeast> I imagine he's got a script to d/l pr0n and he thinks his mother is in here so he doesn't want to explain. DX099's mom, are you here?
20:21 < triceratux> kekePower: i put in the xfce spin of mageia 6.0 when it came out, & installed e21. did quite a lot of work with it actually. its quite solid
20:22 < genewitch> DX099: what was the working command?
20:22 < kekePower> triceratux: What are you missing in mga6? We're about to push a huge update soonish
20:22 < CrazyTux> triceratux, no. I tried Fedora once. But, it has a short release cycle. I don't know how easy or difficult it would be to upgrade from once release to another. That has kept me from trying Fedora again.
20:23 < hexnewbie> Temporary directory in /dev/shm is porn-friendly if your mom works digital forensics. But not if she put spyware on the computer.
20:23 < kekePower> and there has been a lot of activity wrt packages getting updated with security fixes and so on lately
20:23 < triceratux> kekePower: yeah i saw that on the blogs. im fine with it as it is. wish you folks luck. when an actual iso comes out ill probably upgrade
20:24 < kekePower> triceratux: Yeah, we'll push a 6.1 version when all the packages has been validated and thorougly tested
20:24 < noodlepie> I want to develop an inter family network system that lets does the whole lot.
20:24 < DX099> genewitch: retroarch --appendconfig <(echo 'video_driver = opengl')
20:24 < noodlepie> With online logging for longetivity
20:25 < triceratux> CrazyTux: F28 is exceptional insofar as being both pretty solid & released on time. theres a line of thought that says theyre cleaning up their act https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/04/fedora_28/
20:25 < genewitch> shouldnt' that same thing work with cat < (echo 'video_driver = opengl')
20:25 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok
20:26 < CrazyTux> triceratux, why they don't have a LTS version like the one Ubuntu has?
20:26 < aaa___> ok
20:26 < genewitch> CrazyTux: it's based on RHEL
20:26 < noodlepie> Music is good!
20:26 < pnbeast> hexnewbie, what if mom has a spray can of freon and sprays your RAM after barging into the room so you barely have time to push the power button?  She could read it!!!
20:26 < noodlepie> Everyone should learn to play the triangle!
20:26 < triceratux> CrazyTux: youd have to ask them. basically rhel / centos is their lts version
20:27 < oplevunus> If everyone seems like they're having a stroke, maybe I'm the one having the stroke
20:27 < pnbeast> oplevunus, nope, it's the channel, today.  Or you and me, both.
20:27 < CrazyTux> ok
20:27 < genewitch> pnbeast: mom has a very sensitive low current clamp meter and can read sidechannel leaks
20:27 < genewitch> no need for freon at all
20:27 < hexnewbie> pnbeast: Your mom cold booting your computer is a nightmare on the level of CRT burn-in.
20:28  * pnbeast remembers parents looking at Jenna Jameson burned into the monitor with great shame.
20:28 < genewitch> desktop backgrounds, for shame.
20:29 < CrazyTux> triceratux, can we install Fedora once and keep on upgrading it?
20:29 < CrazyTux> without having to reinstall it again?
20:29 < sleepyhead> CrazyTux: i doubt it
20:29 < n-iCe> Ok, got a 4GB usb flash.
20:29 < n-iCe> Now I can install any distro.
20:29 < hexnewbie> We do have a department that's convinced that the proper way to give people access to a server is to send people a private key that's allowed to access the server. For some reason, I get extra paranoid and put those in a directory created by ‘mktemp -p /dev/shm’ before adding my public key.
20:29 < noodlepie> "Now, bend me out a chord on the old harmonica!"
20:29 < noodlepie> You've got to have the tongue see!
20:29 < CrazyTux> sleepyhead, ok
20:29 < genewitch> CrazyTux: https://fedoramagazine.org/upgrading-fedora-27-fedora-28/
20:30 < sleepyhead> CrazyTux: afaik only server distros let you upgrade in place successfully. debian, centos, suse. you can try with desktop ones but it'll likely get borked
20:30 < n-iCe> bookworm: here?
20:30 < genewitch> "he Fedora 28 Workstation also has a graphical upgrade method."
20:30 < hexnewbie> For porn though, ‘mktemp /dev/shm/XXX’ works ;)
20:31 < genewitch> and i know that ubuntu desktop can do upgrades between releases
20:31  * sauvin remembers having to remove Jenna from a friend's Windows Registry because it was... um... "photoshopped" and it was a *work* computer
20:33 < toothe> Is there a way in Gnome to change the activities menu from taking up the entire damn screen?
20:33 < toothe> I really hate it when that search thing come sup and takes up everything.
20:33 < CrazyTux> ok
20:34 < DX099> genewitch: probably
20:37 < hexnewbie> toothe: Doesn't it display the windows contents inside the ‘activities’? I think it's supposed to be full screen, as it's not a menu, but a preview of all windows (in a way of a zoom out)
20:37 < toothe> darn, its not my favorite approach
20:39 < DevonX|> Hi
20:40 < DevonX|> im having some issues running ubuntu on WSL with xfce. the desktop seems to boot but then crash again
20:40 < noodlepie> DevonX|, be a darer, download Linux poper, Debian and Gentoo are good examples
20:40 < Psi-Jack> Well, yesterday I did something fun. Downgraded a debian VM instance that was accidentally "upgraded" to sid, back down to stretch.
20:41 < noodlepie> Its freedoms will surprise!
20:41 < Psi-Jack> That was /awesome/ fun. heh
20:41 < noodlepie> Its better than windows by miles any way, why we all use it! @:P-~
20:41 < DevonX|> wont work for what i am trying to do
20:42 < bls> DevonX|: this channel doesn't support windows or WSL. there may be better ones on this network for you to get help
20:42 < jml2> lol wsl?
20:42 < jml2> a weasal!
20:43 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: hope you remembered to turn off the accidental upgrade switch so it doesnt happen again ;)
20:45 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: yep. It was an attempt to use deb packaging for gitea, which was only in sid, but I'd switched to using binary/manual installation instead for the time being.
20:45 < hexnewbie> Remember, always APT::Update::SurpriseSid to "OnPurpose", not "Accidental"
20:46 < Psi-Jack> Heh, and now I'm having to conjure up a new method for handling backups for my VMs.
20:46 < Psi-Jack> Because Proxmox VE's methods are locking up my RBD disks.
20:47 < hexnewbie> Debian really needs a way to get testing/sid packages that's better than backports, I miss Gentoo's. Automatically get the source package, build it and upgrade it? It can be done, but I have to run it automatically, because.
20:47 < hexnewbie> I mean I have to run it *manually*
20:54 < DevonX|> im kind of sstuck in a limbo where no one wants to help me... :( could someone please just take a quick look at my log and see if they can make sense of it ?
20:56 < bls> free help generally comes with free software
20:57 < DevonX|> well its free
20:57 < bls> windows is not FOSS
20:57 < DevonX|> its not windows that is crashing
20:57 < DevonX|> its the window manager for ubuntu
20:58 < MrElendig> but wsl isn't free
20:59 < MrElendig> and is most likely involved
20:59 < bls> you're not running ubuntu though, you're running bits of it on windows. this channel doesn't support windows or software running on windows
20:59 < MrElendig> you could try ##windows or #ubuntu
21:00 < hexnewbie> DevonX|: The crashing is likely Windows-related, not Xfce-related (especially if you can reproduce it every time, DEs can be buggy, just not *that* buggy). Even if we wished to help, we probably wouldn't know a thing about it as it is a Windows issue.
21:10 < Psi-Jack> WSL is also /not/ Linux. There's absolutely no Linux kernel even running in WSL.
21:13 < jml2> DevonX|, cygwin is more opensource/free than WSL would ever be
21:13 < jml2> DevonX|, maybe you should re-install "Linux" with "cygwin"
21:13 < jml2> and even that is not considered "Linux"
21:13 < jml2> DevonX|, this is fact.
21:13 < jml2> DevonX|, not opinion
21:14 < Psi-Jack> https://imgur.com/gallery/WTDnnwE
21:14 < aaa___> i hate pi jack
21:14 < DevonX|> i think i got it working now
21:15 < DevonX|> had to run dbus-launch startxfce4 &
21:15 < DevonX|> seems to be stable
21:27 < Psi-Jack> Well, now I'm setting up alternative backup solutions with borgbackup for my Proxmox VE servers and each VM instance it runs.
21:30 < aaa___> :/
21:49 < Psi-Jack> Heh, 3.1GB initial backups for /etc,/var/log for 3 PVE hosts. Not bad. It'll be tiny from here on. :)
21:49 < djph> big dirs...
21:52 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. ceph's logs alone is like 3.1GB
21:52 < DLange> important to keep them all
21:53 < DLange> 'cause if you ever run out of stuff to read... :)
21:53 < Psi-Jack> heh
21:53 < Psi-Jack> I doubt.... That would ever happen. Though I ship logs elsewhere anyway. If I need 'em, I can still get them.
21:54 < Psi-Jack> Only really useful if there's a specific unusual ceph issue, and the logs are the only resource of information, and communicating with them to the ceph devs.
21:56 < snugger> How much of a demand is there to port Openbox from XML to something more easily readable?
21:56 < Psi-Jack> Heh, sheash, yeah, that's much better.
21:56 < Psi-Jack> snugger: Low enough that it's not yet been done.
21:57 < DLange> there are other window managers
21:57 < DLange> iirc there is one that has yaml
21:57 < Psi-Jack> Heh, really>
21:57 < royal_screwup21> what's the easiest command to send get request, and see the request and response on the terminal?
21:57 < jml2> royal_screwup21, telnet
21:57 < jml2> royal_screwup21, !!
21:58 < djph> ^
21:58 < DLange> curl or wget
21:58 < jml2> royal_screwup21, you can use telnet to test ftp, email, www, ....
21:58 < antik> snugger: what's wrong with xml?
21:59 < DLange> everything and then some
21:59 < snugger> antik: The code can get messy really easily
22:01 < snugger> I'm thinking about doing it as my first real project. Trying to decide what I should port it to though.
22:02 < royal_screwup21> why can't a delete action ever be a GET request?
22:02 < royal_screwup21> is it just bad practice , or is it actually not possible?
22:03 < bls> you can do what ever you want in response to a GET, it just doesn't really fit the intention
22:06 < royal_screwup21> I'm trying to wrap my head around this nesting: IP header -> TCP header > (http header & data). Can someone please me through why it's nested the way it is?
22:06 < royal_screwup21> walk me*
22:07 < bls> what other possible way could it be nested?
22:07 < jml2> he's trying to use webdav
22:08 < jml2> there's cadaver to issue http-write actions
22:08 < jml2> iirc that'as hte name for testing webdav
22:08 < bls> yeah, it is
22:10 < [R]> royal_screwup21: the lowest layer know how to read it's header... so it reads it, does what it needs, then passes the rest to the next lyaer
22:10 < [R]> royal_screwup21: repeat
22:10 < [R]> royal_screwup21: it woudln't work if it was arranged any other way
22:10 < royal_screwup21> [R] ah thanks., it reads what exactly?
22:11 < [R]> royal_screwup21: the bytes
22:11 < royal_screwup21> [R] where do the bytes come from?
22:11 < [R]> the sender?
22:11 < royal_screwup21> ah okay
22:12 < phogg> It's times like this when I despair about ever communicating with anyone.
22:15 < mawk> a
22:17 < ice9> how can i rm all dirs "recursive" except one specific dir?
22:17 < [R]> find
22:19 < Peyam> hi, I have xubuntu 16.04
22:20 < Peyam> everytime I wake this u p from suspend I see a black screen
22:21 < bls> Peyam: how are you suspending? you may either need to use a suspend package to properly handle (de)initializing your video card, or you may not be able to suspend at all
22:22 < Peyam> bls, I have hp probook 650 G3 http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/NZwTQyzqQh/
22:22 < Peyam> I suspend from the menu
22:24 < bls> when I bothered trying to use suspend, I used a package called either laptop-mode or laptop-mode-tools to hand the video issue
22:25 < Peyam> how do I know what package I use for suspend?
22:26 < pnbeast> snugger, there's apparently some demand, because just two or three weeks ago some people in the channel mentioned a program that generates XML configs from plain text, for Openbox.  Sorry, I don't recall the name.
22:26 < bls> you'd have to check with your distro and/or desktop
22:29 < Peyam> bls, I installed laptop mode. but how do I configure it?
22:29 < neoncortex> huh, I was looking into other terminals, like urxvt, stterm, all of them seems to scroll text slowly, using a lot of cpu, the only one faster is xterm. Is this expected or it's my system?
22:29 < snugger> Does anybody here actually use 9wm?
22:29 < dgurney> the what
22:29 < ice9> [R], example pls?
22:29 < bls> snugger: I did for a bit
22:29 < [R]> ice9: man find
22:30 < bls> neoncortex: a lot of it depends on the fonts you pick (bitmapped vs ttf)
22:30 < bls> Peyam: that's distro and desktop dependent
22:30 < neoncortex> bls: I'm using monospace in all of them
22:30 < neoncortex> except stterm, wich you have to recompile to configure, so it's default
22:31 < bls> and what about a terminal that uses libvte? like gnome-terminal?
22:31 < neoncortex> I tried lxterminal, it's actually not that bad
22:32 < neoncortex> it's vte based
22:32 < neoncortex> and there's mrxvt, wich is perfect, except for lacking utf-8 support
22:33 < noodlepie> I used 9wm on Plan9 when it was at university. it was interesting but wasn't GNU!
22:33 < bls> I've just stuck with xterm, but I never noticed much difference between scrolling speeds
22:34 < bls> 9wm is a port of Plan9's window manager rio
22:34 < pankaj_> I just forgot my security key of home network. Is their any command which is expertise in these types of problems?
22:34 < poopBot> anyone knows if r7 250 supports vulcan on linux?
22:34 < poopBot> am trying to run tomb raider
22:36 < noodlepie> It was a network computer system much like clustering but multi-arch
22:36 < vlt> pankaj_: You could try a factory reset.
22:36 < noodlepie> And had a Java clone called Inferno which was a propf of concept at the time
22:37 < noodlepie> "sam" as the system-wide editor.
22:37 < noodlepie> It was dead mousey
22:37 < neoncortex> bls: my 'scrolling test' is basically scroll a huge manpage in each one, or a big C source code file with vim/emacs .. here the difference between xterm and the others are brutal
22:38 < pankaj_> But why?
22:40 < rascul> neoncortex there's some buffering and stuff going on with the faster terminal emulators
22:42 < neoncortex> rascul: probably, I tried to play with urxvt settings (there's buffer settings there, etc) without luck, stuck in xterm
22:42 < pnbeast> neoncortex, I think in a recent LWN there was an article on terminals' functionality.  Speed was given a passing mention, though it seemed to focus on other fluff a lot.  You might look for it if you're really interested.
22:42 < neoncortex> it's not a tragedy, is that sometimes I want something different
22:43 < bls> I gave up on urxvt when I could never get its buffering settings right, tried st but it was too slow/buggy, xterm works and is ubiquitous
22:44 < neoncortex> pnbeast: thos test confuses me more, they state that xterm are slow, and others are faster because this and that, and I experience just the oppose
22:45 < [R]> bls: never give up... NEVER SURRENDER
22:45 < pnbeast> Any time I end up on some distro with some default stupid other terminal, one of the first things I do is install xterm.  Yes, xterm is usually faster for me.
22:45 < pnbeast> What are you, Cory Ha[R]t?
22:45 < [R]> pnbeast: gnome terminal is superior to xterm...
22:46 < pnbeast> For negative values of superior, sure!
22:46 < [R]> lol
22:58 < snugger> What is a good case of something being so minimal it sacrifices functionality?
22:59 < uplime> the cargo browser is pretty minimal
22:59 < jim> helloworld.c?
22:59 < uplime> lacks a bunch of features one commonly expects on a browser
23:01 < bls> heck, pretty much any webbrowser that doesn't implement a full JS stack
23:06 < [R]> snugger_: the whole point of "minimal" is that it lakcs things
23:06 < [R]> if it didnt lack anything
23:06 < [R]> it woudln't be minimal
23:06 < [R]> it would be fully featured
23:07  * snugger_ spits out coffee
23:19 < seven-eleven> do i have to reboot after installing something to dkms?
23:20 < jim> seven-eleven, like what did you install?
23:20 < seven-eleven> jim, xtables-addons-common
23:20 < cointist> seven-eleven: i don't think so. lsmod to list modules. modprobe to load the one you want
23:20 < revel> seven-eleven: The thing that compiles modules? You shouldn't have to.
23:21 < revel> Not as far as I know, at least.
23:21 < seven-eleven> i want to use fwmark with ip rules, that is `ip rule add from fwmark 0xa lookup 42`, but I get "Error: ??? prefix is expected rather than "fwmark""
23:21 < revel> I think I've read something about some modules not really wanting to get unloaded, so if you have an older version of the same module, then  you may want to reboot?
23:21 < seven-eleven> mhm
23:22 < seven-eleven> ill try to reboot
23:22 < cointist> seven-eleven: did you try the -m switch to specify the module
23:22 < cointist> oh sorry that's not iptables
23:22 < jim> also you shouldn't have to reboot after the install of modules, try to modprobe one of the modules you installed
23:23 < revel> Yeah, if you don't have a previous version loaded or rmmod isn't complaining, then it should be fine.
23:34 < stevendale> 5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555565565555555555555555543w2
23:34 < revel> 5 is a good number.
23:35 < stevendale> Oh
23:35 < stevendale> Morning
23:37 < IPoAC> stevendale, cat walking over the keyboard? mine do a lot
23:38 < seven-eleven> also my syntax was just wrong, should be `ip rule add fwmark..` not ip rule add from fwmark` :-)
23:39 < stevendale> IPoAC I was sleeping on it
23:39 < stevendale> Supplement for a pillow
23:47 < neoncortex> stevendale: you need to use your machine to find the cure for brain fog
23:52 < morphin> Hello. I have a problem with mpt3sas driver. But i can't find any contact to discuss my problem.
23:52 < morphin> I have open issue at bugzilla and I send 2 mail to maillist but no luck. Nobody answers
23:52 < morphin> What should i do?
23:53 < morphin> My problem is= https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197879
23:56 < bls> morphin: have you check the git log to see if there's an email for a maintainer?
23:58 < morphin> bls: I use archlinux and I have an open issue at there too but the problem related to mpt3sas driver so they dont have any idea
23:58 < morphin> bls: also like i said I send 2 mail to linux-scsci maillist.
--- Log closed Mon May 07 00:00:11 2018