--- Log opened Thu May 10 00:00:14 2018
00:03 < bls> hatp: don't launch them as root, or have cgexec call su/sudo
00:17 < toothe> Is there an easy way to modify the Gnome bar to have more than 1 application on it?
00:17 < toothe> and/or have a quick launch button on it?
00:25 < xamithan> Yes
00:26 < xamithan> There is
00:38 < Loshki> hanetzer: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50166072/convert-a-context-diff-to-unified-diff-format says to spply the diff and then generate new diffs. Brutal and gross.
00:38 < hanetzer> Loshki: yeah. Aware of that technique, used it before
00:39 < cheater> hi
00:39 < hanetzer> Loshki: and I agree, its not ideal.
00:39 < Loshki> hanetzer: at least the result is guaranteed correct, more or less.
00:39 < cheater> how can i find out the inode max on /run, and how many inodes are being used?
00:41 < Loshki> cheater: df -i, and ls -i to start
00:53 < Celmor> if I have a bash process, executing a script in a child bash process which dies but there were still processes running in the script, do these orphaned processes become childs of bash which reaps them?
00:53 < Celmor> after they exit
00:55 < cheater> Loshki: thanks
00:55 < cheater> other than inodes and free space, what else could cause writes to an fs to fail with out of space?
00:56 < stevendale> Hi
00:56 < stevendale> Well Arch Linux is running fine on my little Acer Aspire One 532h-2Bb
00:58 < cheater> stevendale: nice
01:00 < Loshki> Celmor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan_process
01:01 < Celmor> I know what happens in a system with init
01:01 < Celmor> I wanna know what hapens to those if there's no init
01:01 < Celmor> like in a container
01:02 < Celmor> I'm just wondering if any process whose parent exits is orphaned, even if there are "grand parents"
01:03 < hanetzer> stevendale: nice, little netbook?
01:03 < stevendale> Yep hanetzer :)
01:04 < hanetzer> stevendale: that's cool; I got u-boot and gentoo running on my ASUS C201 chromebook :D
01:05 < Loshki> Celmor: Dunno. Try #bash and ##programming next. Or read your distro docs.
01:06 < Celmor> should be a distro-agnostic problem
01:07 < Celmor> I tried bash, they responded only with "circular question", nothing else
01:07 < stevendale> hanetzer: Got this for $44 AUD :) But I bought a brand new battery for it yesterday for about $32 AUD
01:07 < Celmor> even after asking what that means
01:08 < Loshki> Celmor: well the article says some terminate orphans, some use init, and others use subreapers. That sounds distro-specific to me.
01:08 < stevendale> hanetzer: Seller put it up because Win XP was bluescreening every startup and they didn't know what an 'OS' is
01:13 < edisonbulb> i mean to type rm -rf ./*
01:13 < edisonbulb> but i typed rm -rf /.*
01:13 < edisonbulb> now all of the files on my external hdd are gone
01:13 < edisonbulb> what can i do
01:13 < xamithan> Find some file recovery tools?
01:13 < xamithan> Load from backups
01:14 < edisonbulb> this... was my backup
01:14 < maxxe> edisonbulb, congratulations you just shoot yourself in the foot! :)
01:15 < hanetzer> stevendale: hah
01:16 < edisonbulb> i'm running debian
01:16 < edisonbulb> E: Unable to locate package gddrescue
01:16 < hanetzer> edisonbulb: remount ro, dd the image to external storage, use $filesystem recovery tool
01:16 < supernovah> Anyone familiar with creating a psuedoterminal? I want to pipe the output of a program into a terminal, so that another program can read it and think its a tty
01:16 < edisonbulb> E: Unable to locate package testdisk
01:16 < Psi-Jack> edisonbulb: Make a new backup.
01:16 < Psi-Jack> heh
01:17  * hanetzer shudders at the sight of gnu's diffutils source codee
01:17 < hanetzer> what kind of monster uses '  ' indenting in c?
01:17 < Psi-Jack> hanetzer: Wait will you see the source code of Linux itself. ;)
01:17 < edisonbulb> shouldn't even be possible without su
01:17 < edisonbulb> -_-
01:17 < hanetzer> Psi-Jack: Have. and u-boot.
01:18 < Psi-Jack> edisonbulb: What shouldn't?
01:18 < hanetzer> Psi-Jack: and coreboot. and grub.
01:18 < edisonbulb> removing files from an external hdd
01:18 < Psi-Jack> edisonbulb: That depends on what filesystem. What filesystem?
01:18 < hanetzer> edisonbulb: how was it mounted?
01:19 < edisonbulb> graphically, automatically
01:19 < edisonbulb> fat32
01:19 < hanetzer> automount via $filemanager? then no, su would not be needed
01:19 < Psi-Jack> See, FAT32 has no permissions systems.
01:19 < Psi-Jack> And, not a good backup filesystem either.
01:19 < hanetzer> worst filesystem
01:19 < edisonbulb> best filesystem if you want to carry around your hdd and plug it in where-ever
01:19 < Psi-Jack> And normally, you're not rm'ing your backups like that. :p
01:20 < Psi-Jack> edisonbulb: No, not even then.
01:20 < Psi-Jack> And backups, you don't carry around and plug into $random computers.
01:20 < Psi-Jack> Your claim that this /was/ your backups, is proven to be false.
01:20 < notmike> Someone who isn't Psi-Jack and actually knows what they're talking about, would one be at a disadvantage to learn C++ before learning C?
01:20 < Psi-Jack> Heh
01:21 < dviola> I had windows 7 refuse to recognize a USB stick because it was formatted with FAT32, had to reformat it as NTFS on my Linux machine, ridiculous
01:21 < xamithan> Don't know,  go ask a programming channel
01:21 < edisonbulb> i was in the middle of a distro switch
01:21 < Psi-Jack> Someone NOT me? Sheash.
01:21 < Psi-Jack> ^ go ask a programming channel, and stop being rude, notmike .
01:21 < dviola> s/with/as/
01:21 < Brainspackle> why do people switch distros so much
01:21 < Psi-Jack> Brainspackle: Why is the sky blue?
01:21 < xamithan> Who is "people" ?
01:21 < Brainspackle> Psi-Jack: Blue light is scattered in all directions by the tiny molecules of air in Earth's atmosphere. Blue is scattered more than other colors because it travels as shorter, smaller waves. This is why we see a blue sky most of the time.
01:21 < notmike> Thanks for being helpful
01:21 < hanetzer> Brainspackle: I ditched ubuntu for arch, because new software, and ditched arch for gentoo, because fun :)
01:22 < Brainspackle> Psi-Jack: douchebag
01:22 < edisonbulb> gonna try systemrescuecd
01:22 < Psi-Jack> Brainspackle: Namecalling, how childish.
01:22 < Psi-Jack> edisonbulb: To do... what?
01:22 < edisonbulb> recover files off of external hdd
01:22 < supernovah> So anyone have any clue about pseudoterminals?
01:22 < Brainspackle> why are you even in here if you're just going to give asshole answers to anyone who speaks? do you need attention that badly?
01:23 < edisonbulb> it's irc
01:23 < edisonbulb> nobody expects quality support anyway ;)
01:23 < Brainspackle> it would be nice if people just weren't dickheads thoug
01:23 < Psi-Jack> Brainspackle: You, whom is new here, or at least a nick that's been here maybe a week or so. Has very little actual knowledge of what I do, and how many people I help, (which is thousands)
01:24 < Brainspackle> Psi-Jack: i've been in this channel for a decade, smart guy
01:24 < edisonbulb> if i needed support really badly, i'm sure there are plenty of companies that would be willingly to wipe my ass
01:24 < Psi-Jack> So you're masquerading as another identity, because you're a bad boy? :P
01:24 < edisonbulb> if i paid
01:24 < Brainspackle> nope
01:24 < winsoff> If my DM crashed/was restarted somehow during apt-upgrade, did I lose my apt progress?
01:25 < xamithan> DM?
01:25 < Psi-Jack> Display Manager
01:25 < winsoff> I assume it's my DM. I might be wrong. I'm seemingly back at whatever dumped boot logs.
01:25 < Psi-Jack> winsoff: Likely.
01:25 < hanetzer> winsoff: to a degree; files downloaded remain. you may need to dpkg-reconfigure -a or something like that
01:25 < winsoff> I'm on debian.
01:25 < xamithan> Unless you were running in screen or something,  probably
01:25 < Psi-Jack> screen, tmux, or something, yes.
01:26  * Psi-Jack is ALWAYS using tmux locally.
01:26 < hanetzer> Psi-Jack: aye, same. weechat in tmux, always
01:26 < Psi-Jack> One day I need to figure out how to properly bridge or link a remote tmux with a local tmux session, and actually benefit fully.
01:26 < xamithan> tmux breaks my terminal and i'm too lazy to fix
01:26 < winsoff> Psi-Jack, really good idea. On debian, can I do the whole ctrl+alt+switchtoadifferentterminal thing? I'm uncertain how to recover from here
01:27 < hanetzer> winsoff: ctrl+alt+f3 should do ya, and I think all distros do dat
01:27 < Psi-Jack> winsoff: You can. Not sure what you're asking though. If you started an apt-get upgrade, you can likely just continue where it stopped by running it again.
01:29 < Psi-Jack> If it can't simply continue, as in it' already downloaded and started to install stuff, it may tell you what you need to run to finish what it had gotten up to.
01:29 < winsoff> I'm uncertain what the term is (sleep deprivation doesn't help, of course), but my "session" (the desktop+windowed terminal i was using) is gone, and I'm at a screen where I see some malformatted text (such as cascading [ OK ] <various text here> before a message from syslogd
01:29 < winsoff> Oh hey it looks like it said something like "out of memory." Interesting.
01:29 < Psi-Jack> Console.
01:29 < xamithan> Hop to another tty,  run the upgrade,  do a dpkg --configure -a or whatever it tells you,  reboot
01:30 < Psi-Jack> Ctrl+Alt+F#
01:30  * hanetzer is using a real console on his chromebook ;P
01:30 < winsoff> Oh, weird. It's just a blinking cursor on different ttys. Is that a common thing?
01:30 < TBotNik> All: Still having MySQL issues! Wrote up at: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?p=5852630#post5852630  Having "held" packages.  Can't find a HOWTO on removing help packages.  Need help Please!
01:30 < Psi-Jack> Yes
01:30 < hanetzer> uart2: serial@ff690000 :)
01:30 < Psi-Jack> TBotNik: Tried #mysql?
01:31 < dviola> there's also #maria for mariadb
01:31 < TBotNik> Psi-Jack: Can't! Somehow I'm blocked there. No idea why!
01:32 < winsoff> What's the best way to query syslogd for error logs? I assume that's where logs go when syslogd is the daemon.
01:32 < Psi-Jack> TBotNik: Well, you're not banned. So.
01:33 < Psi-Jack> winsoff: First, simply check dmesg
01:33 < Psi-Jack> You might find that at the tail end there was an OOP message based on what you said earlier.
01:34 < Psi-Jack> and you can use Shift+PgUp/PgDown to scroll back.
01:34 < winsoff> Ah. oom_reaper: reaped process (mate-power-mana)
01:34 < iflema> ctrl + b first for u
01:34 < TBotNik> Psi-Jack: Well I cant execute /join #mysql and get in!
01:35 < winsoff> i grep'd ps's output and saw that my sudo apt upgrade is in S-mode/interruptible sleep
01:35 < winsoff> is there a way to recover that?
01:35 < Psi-Jack> TBotNik: And the reason you get back is.....?
01:36 < TBotNik> Psi-Jack: Never been banned b4, no idea why and no idea how to resolve that
01:36 < xamithan> It is asking you for input.  I don't think there is a way to get it back without doing some crazy hacking.  Just kill it and restart winsoff
01:36 < winsoff> xamithan, damn. ;-;
01:36 < Psi-Jack> TBotNik: "before" not "b4"
01:37 < Psi-Jack> TBotNik: And again, you're not banned. I've already checked.
01:37 < Psi-Jack> There is literally no reason at all that I can see that would be preventing you from joining.
01:37 < xamithan> Is he on a web gateway? a lot of channels ban that
01:37 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
01:38 < kre10s> Hello. Occasionally load avg will jump to 2.3 with no applications running. What options to I have for determening what is causing all the load? top does not show anything out of the ordinary.
01:38 < Psi-Jack> kre10s: atop
01:38 < xamithan> top, iotop,  sysstat,  sar,  syslog,
01:39 < Psi-Jack> Load is anything from CPU load, Disk I/O, Network I/O, any I/O
01:39 < stevendale> I use iotop, htop & jnettop
01:39 < xamithan> way too many commands to list
01:39 < Psi-Jack> atop trumps MOST of those.
01:39 < Ridout> Psi-Jack: I see a ban in #mysql-bans
01:40 < Psi-Jack> Ridout: Hmm, interesting. Cross-channel banning?
01:40 < Ridout> $j:#channel honours bans set in #channel
01:40 < Psi-Jack> Ahhh.. What is $j?
01:41 < Psi-Jack> Ahhh extban. Wierd. :)
01:41 < Loshki> kre10s: do you have remote file systems? nfs was notorious for raising load average on otherwise quiet machines when it lost contact...
01:42 < supernovah> is there a way to make a bi-directional fifo or file descriptor like a pts, so I can duplicate io to a program
01:42 < Ridout> I'll have to look it up unless someone else knows (highly likely in #freeode).
01:42 < Psi-Jack> TBotNik: So, yeah, apparently you were a bad boy Apr 25th.
01:42 < kre10s> no nfs. I do hos a samba server but no one is connected right now.
01:42 < Psi-Jack> Ridout: I found it. :)
01:42 < supernovah> I've tried this gdp tricker, gdb -p <pid>, p dup2(open("/dev/pts/<mine>", 1), 1) etc
01:44 < supernovah> gdb trickery*
01:48 < kre10s> :/ ibus-daemon occasionally takes 101% CPU... that would make sense. I did install that recently. But why is something so simple taking such much power???
01:49 < xamithan> 101% of cpu is just one core.  Unless you got a single core cpu that isn't a big deal
01:49 < TBotNik> Psi-Jack: But what did I do? No idea?  Do you know?
01:50 < Loshki> supernovah: are you sure the open succeeds? Use a gdb temp vsriable.
01:51 < Psi-Jack> TBotNik: I wasn't there. You were... Take it up with #mysql-ops
01:54 < jml2> supernovah, ?
01:54 < jml2> supernovah, bi-directional fifo? huh?
01:55  * jml2 just read up on trump's tweek on "good meeting" with Kim Jong Un XDXDXD
01:55 < ossifrage> Is it me or in recent years has it gotten easier to OOM deadlock a linux box without triggering the OOM killer (especially on a desktop machine)
01:56 < Psi-Jack> jml2: I thought they assassinated him... Oh... wait.. that was just a movie. :)
01:56 < jml2> Psi-Jack, it's a circus XD
01:56 < Psi-Jack> ossifrage: It's just you.
01:56  * jml2 and off-topic, it gets us canadians interested to watch -- https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/994192995737096192 XD
01:57 < jml2> supernovah, have you tried tee or "pee" (pee is from the moreutils package)
01:57 < jml2> supernovah, (and yes its called "pee" XD)
01:58 < ossifrage> I just managed to OOM this box with an unexpectedly large call to ImageMagick montage. I caused the UI to stop (no ssh response, no switch to text console)
01:58 < azx> how can i configure terminal on gnome to be transparent
01:59 < azx> slightly
01:59 < azx> also how can i change the scale of the UI, they give me the option for 100% which is too small and then there is 200% which is too big
01:59 < azx> i want around 125%
02:00 < xamithan> With the edit buttons ?
02:00 < jml2> some fonts dont scale too well
02:00 < ossifrage> I think it managed to deadlock the UI and stall everything out before the process eating the memory gets a chance to go all the way over the kill threshold
02:00 < azx> the gui only offers options for 100 and 200
02:00 < jml2> azx, for terminal font I should suggest the "ubuntu mono" font :p
02:00 < azx> alright, thanks ill check it out
02:01 < azx> my ui is currently giant
02:01 < azx> reminds me of the 700ppx days
02:02  * fendur appreciates a giant desktop
02:02 < jml2> azx, you may like to try mate-terminal -- it offers a transparency setting
02:02 < jml2> azx, (here i use the mate desktop, but you can easily set it as your default terminal on other DEs)
02:03 < azx> i'm suprised gnome terminal does not offer this feature
02:04 < azx> interesting, mate terminal looks exactly like gnome terminal but with extended features
02:05 < azx> even the menu layout
02:08 < jml2> finding the perfect fonts that scale well can be tricky -- for me its dejavu, luxi, lato, fira-sans, and convergence-regular, --- if you cant find fonts like these, you can easily find them on google.com/fonts and download them from there..
02:08 < jml2> but 'mono' and 'fixed' should be used for terminal apps..
02:08 < azx> mate terminal just seems to be changing hue of the background, not transparency
02:08 < kre10s> Cause of the extra load seems to have been ibus... sad really.
02:08 < jml2> azx, hmm really? i never tried transparency lol
02:09 < jml2> azx, hmmm
02:10 < xamithan> azs,  gnome terminal does have it
02:10 < xamithan> It is right under the edit profile options menu
02:10 < xamithan> profile preferences
02:11 < xamithan> Then colors > use transparent
02:11 < jml2> possibly an attribute of the window-manager (old article - https://askubuntu.com/questions/74114/how-to-make-terminal-semi-transparent )
02:11 < jml2> azx ^
02:11 < azx> i don't see the use transparent option
02:11 < jml2> it would make sense the window manager would need to be involved
02:12 < xamithan> I don't know what version of gnome you got but mine has it called use transparent background
02:13 < azx> i just freshly installed manjaro
02:13 < azx> gnome
02:13 < azx> let me see
02:13 < azx> sec
02:14 < xamithan> manjaro says you have to install gnome-terminal-fedora to get that option
02:15 < xamithan> Wonder why the gnome devs removed it though
02:15 < azx> interesting, replaced
02:16 < azx> brb
02:16 < xamithan> AUR even has a gnome-terminal-transparency package
02:18 < azx> great!
02:19 < azx> exactly what i needed, thanks
02:20 < azx> i might get a new DE since i can't change scale factor by less than increments of 100
02:21 < TBotNik> Psi-Jack: No one at #mysql-ops
02:23 < cmj> gnome terminal?
02:23  * cmj shudders
02:23 < cmj> urxvt++
02:24 < cmj> it's all pseudo transparency too
02:26 < cmj> this monitor is killing me
02:27 < Psi-Jack> TBotNik: /quote chanserv access #mysql list
02:27 < Psi-Jack> There you go.
02:27 < cmj> hello, Psi-Jack
02:27 < Psi-Jack> Moin
02:28 < cmj> gm
02:30 < TBotNik> Psi-Jack: What am I seeing with the cmd?
02:30 < Psi-Jack> Figure it out. :)
02:31 < neoromantique> Hello
02:33 < neoromantique> can somebody recommend me small footprint monitoring solution that would send notifications(fire up curl) when certain events happen? E.g system is low on RAM/Space/High LA
02:34 < neoromantique> Don't think it warrants nagios or alike, just want to know if there's any off the shelf solution before I script it
02:34 < cmj> munin?
02:35 < neoromantique> cmj: actually, might be a good solution
02:36 < cmj> i used munin for years. nagios is more widely used i think
02:36 < cmj> nagios alerts are pretty simple
02:37 < cmj> munin because i could write any script for it. munin because for basic alerts it did its job
02:38 < cmj> nagios for the latter
02:39 < neoromantique> cmj: Honestly ideally I'd love some python script that does it
02:40 < neoromantique> I don't really need stats(already have stats on application layer); I'd prefer vitals monitoring
02:40 < neoromantique> and push notif if treshold is reached
02:40 < cmj> well it depends on what you want. you could have any daemon report things back to you
02:41 < cmj> munin is probably the simplest answer
02:42 < cmj> which is just a bundle of perl scripts from the get-go
02:42 < cmj> you can create whatever
02:43 < cmj> even simple shell scripts. its a fancy polling/wrapper for whatever that standard graph tool is
02:43 < cmj> rrdtool
02:44 < cmj> you just write your python script and enable it and … go from there
02:44 < cmj> i use tons of shell scripts with munin
03:14 < jml2> neoromantique, collectd
03:14 < jml2> neoromantique, is easy to use, setup and send monitoring events
03:19 < Namll> I have a txt file that is considered one line, but it is a long html file. If I want to pull only one part of this html file, what would be the best way? Grep pulls the entire file when it matches the search because its one line, so that didnt help much, and awk seems like you need a more refined search to format the data properly. Pretty much I want to search up to my math, remove everything before it and after it.
03:19 < Namll> up to my match*
03:19 < uplime> don't use coreutils to parse html
03:19 < uplime> or xml
03:19 < uplime> or json
03:19 < jml2> Namll, you can try upgrade notepad, heard MS updated it to include Linux's EOL...
03:19 < uplime> use a real html parserr
03:19 < jml2> XD
03:19 < jml2> LAWL
03:20 < Namll> uplime: any recommendations?
03:20 < jml2> perhaps a simple dos2unix would do it
03:20 < uplime> i normally use xmllint, but im not sure how well it stands up to html
03:20 < uplime> it does have a --html option though, iirc
03:20 < jml2> the wordpress developer clowns leave Windows EOL on their wp-config.php file...
03:21 < jml2> XD
03:21 < Namll> thanks uplime
03:21 < uplime> np
03:21  * jml2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newline
03:21 < triceratux> Namll: make a copy of it & run a global change on it that turns whitespace into newlines. then when your formulae are returned via the sed search theyll be on a manageable line of their own
03:22 < triceratux> ^^ brute force solution
03:22 < jml2> some webservers intentionally clip the eol to make the page load faster iirc
03:22 < uplime> ...
03:22 < uplime> don't do that
03:22 < jim> Namll, what language are you doing this in?
03:23 < jml2> triceratux, sooner or later your big Trump boy is gunna start using RedStar in the WhiteHouse XDXDXD https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/994192995737096192
03:24 < Namll> jim I am just tinkering with the command line, just to see what data i can pull. So I was just planning on doing it through a bash script. I saw something about HTML-XML-utils that might help.
03:24 < jim> us politics is off topic jml2
03:24 < jml2> jim, redstar is a linux distribution used in NK :)
03:24 < jml2> XD
03:25 < jml2> Namll, bash isn't made to handle rich regex, this is why perl was invented.. there's perl/xml/html parsers... awk/sed/grep are not good enough..
03:25 < jim> mixing trump in is politics...
03:26 < beshoo> when i run gearman form supervisor i got this error in the log Timeout occurred when calling bind() for 0.0.0.0:4730 , and supervisor keep restarting gearman due to this
03:26 < jml2> jim, relax it was a 1-time punch-line
03:26 < jml2> Namll, if you took my suggestion, dos2unix may have fixed the issue, it may be an EOL (windows eol) ..
03:27 < jim> just be careful where you step... I hear tell you're moving in the negativity direction... you should move back
03:28 < jml2> jim, trump is not a polician but hey I don't live in the USA nor really care if you guys want to twist things as far you like to take it. I'm not interested much in politics either.  So let go of my arm please.
03:31 < jim> Namll, I don't know how to do this in bash (or other shell)... but here's what I do know: if you're using regexp (grep, sed, etc) on html or xml (or any recursively defined language), the tool isn't matched to the job
03:31 < jim> back in a few mins
03:33 < Namll> i used hxnormalize from the html-xml-utils on the document and that helped clean it up to make it more managable. Im just tinkering really so no real plan of attack to do it best.
03:36 < dfcnvt> Anybody know anything to do with "extractor data"?  As shown in syslog file.
03:37 < jml2> dfcnvt, grep can work against file files like syslog, but if you change the output format of your syslog then of course it will break the extraction
03:38 < jml2> dfcnvt, systemd overcomes this problem by enforcing fields on logging... so it is more reconstructive (there's even json output support with systemd iirc)
03:38 < dfcnvt> I just had my monitor turned off immediately after I open guvcview program for camera to use.   This lead me to research in the syslog.  Hence my questioning regarding the extractor data.
03:39 < jml2> dfcnvt, errors of user space apps dont go into syslog
03:39 < jml2> dfcnvt, you'd find that in places like ~/.xession-errors
03:39 < dfcnvt> But nonetheless, Ignoring the 'extractor data' -- I find that there's "does not support NVIDIA 3D Vision" under gdm-Xorg
03:39 < dfcnvt> Oh okay
03:40 < jml2> dfcnvt, ~/.xsession-errors   (typo)
03:40 < dfcnvt> There is no .xsession-errors file.
03:40 < dfcnvt> Note, I'm on debian.
03:40 < jml2> dfcnvt, commonly you can try --help with a binary, and sometimes there's  -verbosity and additional -log settings
03:41 < dfcnvt> jml2: Before we walk through steps -- are we just talking about formatting to the syslog?
03:41 < jml2> X's defacto log is in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
03:42 < dfcnvt> Because if yes, then forget about it.  I'm just interested in trying to get my monitor back on.
03:42 < jml2> dfcnvt, no, I said if you were to use grep against syslog, and you change "options for syslog" (because syslog is configurable on how it can store logging), then you need to up date your grep syntax
03:43 < jml2> you were talking about on what seems like you wanted to script with grep against syslogs
03:43 < jml2> this is the problem with syslog.. is it doesn't have a strict storage format
03:43 < jml2> (this is a feature that was remedied with systemd's logging)
03:43 < dfcnvt> I use no grep or anything -- just my eyesball that I saw long list of 'extractor data' and was curious about it.
03:44 < dfcnvt> But that's part of my fault for misleading you -- I'm interested in discussing about my monitor.
03:44 < jml2> ok so you use "extractor" terminology plainly for amusement I see...
03:44 < jml2> so you're not serious into any scripting just a mere speculation of what is out there
03:44 < neoromantique> jml2: Thanks for recommendation, I already set up netdata + graphite/carbon
03:45 < jml2> nvidia supports 3dvision for linux? that would be mentioned in Nvidia's readme file..
03:45 < dfcnvt> That's correct. And while we move that aside, my sole interest is simply finding the problem that caused my monitor to turn off.
03:45 < neoromantique> Now as a sidenote I found an issue I've been having for some time but didn't see
03:45 < jml2> neoromantique, graphite is good
03:45 < neoromantique> 1m ipv4 tcp listen overflows = 472 overflows
03:46 < neoromantique> for some reason my server was getting overflows and dropping packages
03:52 < dfcnvt> [Attempting to fix monitor issue that was turned off after opening guvcview program]  1) Checked all physical connector, all is secure.  2) rebooted, monitor still off. 3) sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade  4)  about to reboot now -- will continue to update info here (brb)
03:52 < jml2> dfcnvt, that sounds odd
03:52 < dfcnvt> (brb)   will reboot and see if it works.
03:52 < jml2> dfcnvt, probably a background update was applied with packagekit XD
03:53 < dfcnvt> I suppose -- one at a time. I will be back.
03:53 < dfcnvt> (exiting...)
03:55 < dfcnvt> Back...
03:55 < dfcnvt> Monitor still off.
03:55 < hanetzer> Loshki: got it! dev-util/quilt-0.65 to the rescue!
03:55 < dfcnvt> Note, I have two monitor -- one is on, another is off, still.
03:55 < neoromantique> Hmm, I've set ufw default policy DENY
03:56 < neoromantique> but when I open port 32789 -> I get the service on it
03:56 < neoromantique> there are no rules for this port
03:56 < neoromantique> could docker open it by itself?
03:56 < dfcnvt> Okay, I've cat'd Xorg.0.log -->  Apparently it say, "does not support NVIDIA 3D Vision stero."
03:57 < dfcnvt> I'm scratching my head what to do next.
03:57 < jml2> dfcnvt, i have no idea what that is, (i mentioned you need to check nvidia's readme)
03:58 < jml2> dfcnvt, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nvidia+readme+3dvision
03:59 < ````^````> 3d vision like rad racer on NES?
04:01 < dfcnvt> Uhh, right now -- just my plain regular LCD monitor.  HP, W2371d - DVI port.
04:02 < ````^````> you have to get the authentic 3d glasses for it to work right
04:03 < dfcnvt> lol -- No additional accessory has been added to my system.
04:04 < dfcnvt> Don't worry guys -- I'm now attempting to resolve this with nvidia-driver, nvidia-settings, and other such program.
04:05 < cmj> i want a new graphics device
04:05 < jml2> dfcnvt, if you see that nvidia readme, you can enforce parametesr for the driver... this way if any app tries to change a video driver parameter via d-bus, you should be able to prevent problems
04:05 < dfcnvt> I see.
04:06 < cmj> now i just play with xrandr all day
04:06 < jml2> and there's lots of options for 3dvision whatever that is ... so.. i'm better to stay out of it XD
04:06 < jml2> sorry!
04:06 < cmj> what?
04:07 < cmj> don't tell me these things
04:07 < jml2> dfcnvt, ether you know what the problem is or you dont..
04:08 < jml2> dfcnvt, you can always try using DISPLAY=:0 xrandr <options> from tty1 and see if that can help --- if you are able to still get something like a blackened screen on graphical login
04:08 < cmj> hey jml2, you seem to be quite active
04:10 < dfcnvt> Removed /tmp/.X0-lock file -- going to restart.
04:10 < dfcnvt> brb
04:14 < promach_> What do you guys think about the difference between perf and callgrind ?
04:14 < dfcnvt> Er, how do I find out which 32 bit or 64 bit I am on?  uname -a?
04:14 < promach_> dfcnvt: yes
04:15 < dfcnvt> amd64...x86_64 would be 64 bits
04:15 < dfcnvt> Thanks.
04:18 < jim> dfcnvt, there;s a possibility... you could be running a 32 bit kernel on an amd64 machine... you can look at cat /proc/cpuinfo about your cpu
04:21 < dfcnvt> There's 8 core cpu...I guess it is a yes, it's 64bit
04:21 < dfcnvt> It wont' say directly that this system is 64 bits anywhere in cpuinfo file
04:22 < dfcnvt> I'm not worried, I'm moving on elsewhere.  Going to install nvidia driver 500's series
04:22 < dannylee> 8-)
04:22 < dfcnvt> Okay, I need to switch to TTY1, going to get off of this xserver
04:23 < ````^````> dannylee: did you tried fedora 28 ?
04:24 < dannylee> no not yet
04:24 < dannylee> i just got fedora 27 working
04:24 < xamithan> 27?  We are on 28,  keep up
04:24 < dannylee> is fedora 28 better and faster
04:25 < ````^````> i don't know, i was going to ask you that!
04:25 < dannylee> ill just stick with fedora 27
04:26 < tairikuookami> 27 is half dead when 28 was released.  ask them, they'll tell you it is better - and point you to the release notes.
04:26 < dannylee> but my other linux box has 20 reinstall os on it
04:26 < tairikuookami> instead of fedora 20, use centos 7
04:26 < dannylee> this machine is still a virgin
04:27 < dannylee> 960 DEll optiplex
04:27 < tairikuookami> roughly the same packages, but c7 is supported with bugfixes
04:27 < xamithan> c7 makes a pretty garbage desktop OS though
04:28 < tairikuookami> same as f20's
04:30 < dannylee> i love my dell optiplex 960..it is a bit fast for an old machine...fedora is my G0D...but i`m looking at open Suse
04:30 < dannylee> tumbleweed
04:30 < jim> on a machine like that you could dual boot them
04:31 < dannylee> open suse is really great...ok that might work
04:31 < dannylee> i have a 2 tb hard drive
04:31 < jim> hmm, that should be enough
04:32 < dannylee> c0000L
04:32 < jim> any unpartitioned space on it?
04:32 < sir_guy_carleton> hello
04:33 < dannylee> i think that i`m giving up computer hacking and going back tooooo the pool table...
04:33 < dannylee> and i play a meeeen game of chess
04:34 < dannylee> i just order a new pool shaft...
04:35 < dannylee> some of you guys are genius
04:38 < chrisps> i need a device roughly the width of an average smartphone with a height of 2 inches max closed that has a folding screen and a full qwerty keyboard with decently tactile keys
04:38 < chrisps> that runs linux
04:38 < chrisps> and has memory protection built in
04:39 < chrisps> i have no idea where else to ask this question
04:39 < strive> chrisps: There's ##hardware
04:39 < ````^````> theres that pyra thing but i don't know it's dimensions
04:39 < chrisps> thank ye, sorry for the noise lads
04:53 < jml2> fedora 28 is supposed to have much bettery battery performance for laptops
04:53 < jml2> ./battery
05:05 < dfcnvt> Okay, I would like to remove the current module already installed 'nvidia' and plan on going to run my nvidia driver.  Either I need it removed or temporarily suspend it or simply disabled it.  How do I go about doing it?
05:06 < dfcnvt> Last I remember, it was something 'rmmod nvidia'
05:06 < dfcnvt> but if I do that, somehow, if I mess it up -- how do I revert it back?
05:06 < dfcnvt> installmod nvidia -- there's no such thing as installmod
05:07 < ````^````> modprobe
05:08 < cheater> ````^````: cool nick :-)
05:09 < ````^````> i extended my nick to > 8 characters, to spite phogg
05:12 < dfcnvt> In modprobe, I don't see install/add the module...except its -i for "ignore install" which is a weird concept "Ignore the install"?
05:12 < stevendale> Hey cheater :)
05:12 < jml2> run depmod -a,
05:12 < ocnios> Hello
05:12 < jml2> then try modprobe
05:13 < stevendale> Hey ocnios :)
05:14 < ocnios> sudo apt-get install soundnode
05:14 < ocnios> oops
05:14 < stevendale> ocnios: Wrong window :)
05:14 < dfcnvt> I think of all the documentation that the community contributed to -- has turned into a high entropy.  Not helping for a reader like me.
05:15 < stevendale> Firefox 60 ESR is here! :)
05:16 < stevendale> I will keep using 52 though, since it's better :)
05:16 < stevendale> 52.8.0 is the current 52 ESR release, 52.9.0 will be the last
05:18 < dfcnvt> Okay, 'sudo modprobe -r nvidia' is not able to remove due to nvidia is being in use.  How do I turn off nvidia?
05:19 < wowww> uninstall and reboot
05:19 < dfcnvt> Or even, kill/close/terminate my current xserver (at F7)
05:20 < jim> what's soundnode?
05:20 < wowww> ctrl-alt-escape
05:21 < jml2> stevendale, no 58? XD
05:21 < djvb> dfcnvt: might try # systemd isolate multi-user.target
05:22 < jml2> nice
05:22 < jml2> gotta try it
05:22 < djvb> then # systemctl isolate graphical.target to go back to desktop
05:22 < jml2> mind me saying i stopped getting the latest firefox via packages, may as well download it .tarball things straight from the source :))
05:23 < dfcnvt> First time exposed to systemd -- uncertain how to isolate as said instruction.
05:23 < jml2> dfcnvt, systemctl isolate mult-user, systemctl isolate graphical :p
05:23 < jml2> and there ya have it!
05:23 < dfcnvt> word for word, letter for letter?
05:23 < jml2> ./multi-user (typo again dam!)
05:23 < djvb> dfcnvt: isolate is just the command -- typeit just as jml2 and I wrote it
05:23 < jml2> appending .target is optional
05:24 < dfcnvt> Ah, okay
05:24 < jml2> usually you should be in multi-user when fixing X things
05:25 < jml2> djvb, command is "systemctl" , not "systemd"
05:25 < jml2> unless now there's a superseding alias/binary for it
05:25 < djvb> My bad. I wrote it correctly on the second line, though.
05:26 < jml2> there's many systemd commands, it can be confusing at first
05:26 < jml2> systemctl is prominently the first command to use for system administration
05:30 < jml2> yeah firefox 60 is slick
05:30 < djvb> I just recently came back to linux, and I gotta say I think I like systemd much more than sysvinit
05:30 < jml2> it more configurable, it keeps getting better with systemctl --user things..
05:30 < djvb> took some getting used to, though
05:30 < jml2> journalctl --user can be used to diagnose problems even in user space
05:32 < dfcnvt> Okay, it kind of working. Now...off the point, whenever I attempt to install 'sudo apt-get install whateverpackage'  I, then type down to run 'sudo whateverpackage'...it does not exist, it does already installed but does not exist...?
05:32 < dfcnvt> The one actual package, "nvidia-installer-cleanup" is already installed per said apt-get.
05:33 < dfcnvt> And I tried to run 'nvidia-installer-cleanup'...It does not exist, this happens to me on several different type of package. How do I know whether the package name is the command name?
05:33 < jml2> dfcnvt, nvidia package things are very nasty, there's even /etc/alternatives for it
05:34 < jml2> dfcnvt, it's extremely confusing for novice users, you should be following a guide online for fixing this
05:35 < jml2> dfcnvt, there's a workstation I have with nvidia, but I disable all packages with nvidia (use "apt-get purge" if you're doing this), then simply manually use ./NVidia from upstream -- however updates with a kernel means .,/NVidia needs to be used again in multi-user mode...
05:35 < dfcnvt> You're right -- I mean I've does this a long ago...A year ago or so.  I've successfully got the driver installed, (even experienced in removing and installing) but now. I am just brain-fart. Trying to regain back to the same routine that I had long ago.
05:35 < jml2> (then later systemctl isolate graphical -- and nvidia is back to working again)
05:36 < nekOwO> Debate: apt or aptitude
05:36 < dfcnvt> Okay, speaking of that -- I've already does 'systemctl isolate graphical' -- it work. But I'm trying to do the nvidia's issue here.
05:36 < dfcnvt> Actually, let's pause for a while, I'm going to try something else.
05:37 < jml2> dfcnvt, thing is sometimes an nvidia (the way debian package maintainers do things) just "works" for some cards, and at other times just doesn't work for other cards..
05:37 < jml2> dfcnvt, and that is not always obvious to end-users... the problem wouldn't be rather that the nvidia driver is flawed, it could be something debian maintainers are doing..
05:38 < jml2> dfcnvt, so people just ditch the nividia-packages by debian maintainers, and go for ./NVidia -- even though it is "non-debian" way to fix it.. it usually fixes things
05:38 < jml2> dfcnvt, and many will shake their heads in #debian, but it fixes things as a last resort in many instances
05:39 < jml2> annnd that's the truth! :P
05:44 < genewitch> i got kali-linux-full running in windows WSL, except for metasploit-framework
05:44 < genewitch> because it was annoying windows defender
05:45 < genewitch> i'm talking from irssi in screen in kali command line in windows.
05:45 < nekOwO> Why are you using Kali
05:45 < rascul> sounds like a pretty crappy situation, with both kali and windows
05:45 < nekOwO> Kali isn't meant to be used for daily use
05:45 < genewitch> i dunno, it was the first one i found out about
05:45 < toothe> Is there a way to have a tmux-type session for X ?
05:45 < nekOwO> The devs tell people not to use it
05:46 < genewitch> It's not a daily use, i am waiting for a server to update kernel to get on my regular irssi machine
05:46 < nekOwO> genewitch: Good
05:46 < rascul> the server is running kali, isn't it?
05:46 < nekOwO> rascul: I hope not
05:46 < genewitch> "Linux genewitch-i5 4.4.0-43-Microsoft #1-Microsoft Wed Dec 31 14:42:53 PST 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux"
05:47 < genewitch> uname -a ^
05:47 < genewitch> reminds me of the way that some linux hypervisors do guests
05:48 < jml2> genewitch, so?
05:48 < genewitch> is this not the linux channel?
05:48 < jml2> genewitch, no
05:49 < genewitch> am i accidentally in ##electronics
05:49 < genewitch> drat
05:49 < jml2> genewitch, this is ##linux
05:49 < jml2> genewitch, do you always have to talk about WSL everytime you logon?
05:49 < jml2> you brought this up previously
05:49 < jml2> and people are tired about it
05:49 < genewitch> i found out about it yesterday, i mentioned it once
05:50 < genewitch> I got everything working and installed today, i mentioned that today.
05:50 < genewitch> rascul: server is gentoo, btw
05:50 < genewitch> which also, some people consider a dirty word
05:52 < nekOwO> Holy shit. Devuan 2 was just released
05:52 < nekOwO> Thought it'd never happen
05:53 < Aph3x-WL> people actually use devuan?
05:55 < Sveta> Aph3x-WL: yes; my sister uses antix
05:56 < genewitch> what even is that
05:56 < Sveta> genewitch: an obscure anti-systemd distro
05:56 < nekOwO> Aph3x-WL: Because systemd is cancer
05:57 < Sveta> that's what she said :P
05:57 < rosa> Is it normal for fcntl(3, F_GETFL) to return 16386
05:57 < nekOwO> You have a smart sister
05:57 < genewitch> systemd is a solution in search of a problem
05:57 < nekOwO> that created billions more
05:57 < Sveta> nekOwO: thanks, I like her too
05:57 < oiaohm> genewitch: systemd did solve a set of problems.
05:57 < Sveta> yes oiaohm :)
05:57 < genewitch> oiaohm: "IT Contractors need jobs"
05:57 < Sveta> it's not for everyone
05:57 < oiaohm> genewitch: but it failed to create new ones.
05:57 < nekOwO> And killed programs that already solved them and better
05:58 < Sveta> perhaps even that, having more people involved in IT :)
05:58 < oiaohm> genewitch: opps it failed to prevent creating new ones.
05:58 < oiaohm> genewitch: there are a list of problems that happen on sysvinit systems that don't happen on systemd systems.
05:58 < Sveta> hi  oiaohm :) how are you?
05:58 < irwiss> beating on the systemd horse again huh
05:58 < oiaohm> Sveta: fine.
05:58 < genewitch> oiaohm: such as?
05:59 < Sveta> oiaohm, whats your use case, ie what do you use linux for? :-)
05:59 < genewitch> i use ubuntu too, but mainly not systemd gentoo
05:59 < genewitch> i use ubuntu for all the "prepackaged" stuff, that is a nightmare to compile
05:59 < genewitch> kimchi, docker
05:59 < oiaohm> genewitch: cgroup tracking in systemd meaning when you tell a service to be stopped it is.   Not having a service left with fragments running preventing the service from restarting as you could have happen under sysvinit.
06:00 < genewitch> oiaohm: you mean zap?
06:02 < toothe> Is there something like something like tmux but for X?
06:03 < Aph3x-WL> nekOwO: i'm not a fan of systemd either but i don't hate myself enough to use a debian based distro. void linux would be better
06:03 < oiaohm> genewitch: yes the cgrouping means you can send a kill to everything a service has started under system.   So effect stop it.   Its been a weakness of sysvinit for a very long time.
06:03 < irwiss> toothe: there's a bunch of tiling window managers if that's what you're after
06:03 < nekOwO> Aph3x-WL: I'm basically forcing myself to like Void. It has a very unstable repository though
06:03 < oiaohm> genewitch: particularly when a service has stuff behaving a little like a fork bomb.
06:04 < oiaohm> genewitch: then you have the resource management around services that sysvinit does not have.
06:04 < oiaohm> genewitch: these are all fixing problems.
06:04 < m1KeY_> hello
06:04 < nolanv> toothe: xmonad is vaguely like tmux. So are many other tiling WMs.
06:05 < Aph3x-WL> nekOwO: really? i found it to at least be more stable than most distros in my experience
06:05 < nekOwO> Aph3x-WL: Very odd
06:05 < nekOwO> I'll probably end up installing Slackware when I get around to it. Anything to get away from Debian these days
06:06 < genewitch> oiaohm: i suppose, but what sort of systems need that?
06:06 < genewitch> production front end stuff?
06:06 < genewitch> back end?
06:06 < genewitch> container servers, etc etc etc
06:07 < genewitch> http://www.rabblerows.com/
06:07 < oiaohm> genewitch: it helps in many different ways.   Linux kernel for scheduler had to include a system for fake grouping under sysvinit to attempt to get sane sheduldering actions for desktop users.  So background services did not starve interface as much.
06:07 < Aph3x-WL> nekOwO: slackware is a good choice too, though i haven't used it since like 2001 it was amazing at the time
06:08 < oiaohm> genewitch: of course systemd has correctly done grouping of processors so sheduler can act a bit more sane.
06:08 < genewitch> hmm. i didn't know.
06:08 < genewitch> i don't use much desktop
06:08 < genewitch> well i mean my laptop is ubuntu, but i rarely use it
06:09 < oiaohm> genewitch: of course grouping be it docker or system helps with production servers as well.
06:09 < genewitch> yes
06:09 < genewitch> makes sense.
06:09 < oiaohm> basically sysvinit was bad.
06:09 < genewitch> well
06:09 < genewitch> i use openrc
06:09 < genewitch> whatever
06:09 < oiaohm> systemd improves somethings.   But has it problems.
06:10 < oiaohm> openrc I am watching with interest.
06:10 < genewitch> all of that stuff is 1 level above everything i care about
06:10 < genewitch> so i am glad someone cares
06:10 < jml2> toothe, terminatorX ?
06:11 < jml2> toothe, ./terminator./
06:15 < jml2> systemd enables resource allocation to services, sys-v init scripts do not have this capability
06:15 < nekOwO> NuTyX seems like a really interesting distro
06:16 < jml2> (cpu weights, cpu affinities, dependency checking...)
06:19 < jml2> docker requires cgroup management --- and there is no other better init management for cgroups than systemd
06:19 < jml2> ^^^
06:26 < genewitch> docker doesn't require systemd though
06:33 < nekOwO> Who else agrees systemd needs its own runtime library
06:33 < nekOwO> Based on GTK+
06:46 < m1KeY_> can anybody tell me right off the bat how to write a bash script to run with sudo?
06:46 < mgolisch> ?
06:46 < m1KeY_> so i don't have to run it as root, i can just sudo $command.
06:47 < mgolisch> the script needs no change to work like that
06:47 < m1KeY_> like this https://paste.pound-python.org/show/rqiyNSHa2lRN9IEw72vg/
06:47 < m1KeY_> oh really?
06:47 < m1KeY_> so should i add the sudo UID to the code then?
06:48 < m1KeY_> or you said no change?
06:48 < mgolisch> whats the problem your having running it with sudo?
06:50 < m1KeY_> i have some scripts in my own ~/bin and i get sudo: $command: command not found
06:50 < m1KeY_> scripts of my own
06:52 < SuperSeriousCat> Your own ~/bin? When you do sudo it is /root/bin and not your user
06:52 < mgolisch> use the full path
06:52 < Konichiwa> m1KeY_, preserve your environment (sudo -E)
06:54 < m1KeY_> okay. so it worked. thanx. ^^
06:55 < seeit> anyone here successfully gotten passthrough to work with a gtx while an identical gtx is installed and unfortunately in the same pci group?
06:57 < mgolisch> you cant only passthrough some devices in the same iommu group
06:57 < mgolisch> tried another pcie slot?
07:06 < zaratustra> m1KeY_: you could also ln -s ${your_user_home}/bin /root/bin
07:21 < jim> zaratustrawhether that'd work would depend on the permissions on /root and /root/bin
07:21 < jim> oops forgot the space
07:21 < jim> zaratustra, ^^^
07:24 < zaratustra> nvm it depends on root $PATH actually
07:25 < zaratustra> he could add his user bin dir to it
07:28 < jim> oh, yeah, root would be able to use another user's bin dir
07:32 < acresearch> hello people, i am trying to use crontab on arch, but it seems it did not get installed correctly, i can access crontab -e but it is not running, any help please?
07:32 < revel> `systemctl enable --now ${cronsomething}.service`?
07:32 < [R]> shocking
07:33 < [R]> you're saying arch is broken!?
07:33 < revel> [R]: Or they just don't have the cron daemon running.
07:34 < acresearch> [R]: no crontab seems to be broken
07:34 < [R]> lol
07:34 < acresearch> [R]: Failed to enable unit: The name org.freedesktop.PolicyKit1 was not provided by any .service files
07:34 < [R]> shocking
07:34 < [R]> just shocking
07:35 < revel> Then install it lol
07:35 < acresearch> revel: what cronie? i already installed it
07:35 < revel> No, policykit.
07:36 < acresearch> PolicyKit1 is nto found in pacman
07:37 < tomty89> acresearch: polkit
07:37 < revel> Was just about to say.
07:37 < Rembo> hello everyone, i'm getting the following error: https://hastebin.com/opiqukahic.rb can someone help?
07:38 < acresearch> revel: [R] tomty89 nothing happnes system freezes,
07:39 < revel> While doing what, installing polkit?
07:39 < [R]> acresearch: wtf...
07:39 < acresearch> no systemctl enable --now crontab.service
07:39 < [R]> if running systemctl hangs your system...
07:39 < [R]> your dist might be crap
07:39 < [R]> you know... like jeff foxworthy
07:40 < acresearch> its ok guys, i don't have time to reinvent the wheel, i will just install ubuntu instead, my bots worked perfectly there
07:40 < acresearch> thanks for your help
07:40 < tomty89> i remember you have to relogin or something after installing polkit
07:40 < tomty89> otherwise systemctl with normal user will hang
07:40 < revel> Rembo: I think there's something wrong with your openssl (or whatever else is providing your curl with TLS support)
07:41 < tomty89> also there's no crontab.service but only cronie.service
07:41 < revel> Since it, for one, seems to be having trouble identifying that it's a valid cert (since you have -k for some reason), and two, since it's failing to make a handshake.
07:42 < acresearch> tomty89: i tried both
07:42 < Rembo> tomty89: can you please help me with this issue?
07:43 < acresearch> tomty89: anyway too much hassel for no added benifit, i just formatted my server and will install ubuntu
07:43 < revel> Rembo: Either that, or... What does `curl --version` say?
07:43 < tomty89> acresearch: yeah you are definitely the ubuntu type of guy
07:43 < revel> tomty89: "sane"? :D
07:44 < acresearch> tomty89: yeh, i just need things to work, i have too much on my head as it is
07:44 < revel> I don't know anyone who would put Arch on a server.
07:44 < [R]> s/server/computer/
07:45 < revel> No, I definitely know people that would put it on a computer, period.
07:45 < [R]> i'm sorry
07:46 < acresearch> i use antergos on my computer,
07:46 < [R]> acresearch: EXTREME
07:46 < acresearch> [R]: haha
07:51 < tomty89> revel: nah, "i don't want to know what's going on, just pull in and start everything for me"
07:51 < revel> As opposed to "Let's figure out how everything works by having it break down and forcing me to break open the manuals to figure out how to fix things"
07:58 < tomty89> revel: yes exactly
07:58 < trsa> I have a 64-bit system but it's so old there are only two cores so I think I can only run 32-bit linux on virtualbox (only one available processor) ... I couldn't get Ubuntu 16.04 or Linux Mint working, so now I would like a recommendation for what is the lightest linux possible that has a GUI?
07:59 < [R]> trsa: any sane dist
07:59 < tomty89> should i have said windows type of guy instead *grin*
07:59 < revel> Meanwhile the solutions are generally things like shell scripts that start compton every 60 seconds instead of figuring out why it just kills itself so frequently.
07:59 < shan> trsa: practical? linux lite/an lxde/lxqt distro
07:59 < shan> trsa: or you could do DSL
07:59 < mouses> trsa: xubuntu is nice
08:00 < shan> o hi mouses
08:00 < shan> trsa: Ubuntu MATE is nice too
08:00 < mouses> shan: +++
08:00 < mouses> shan: hihihihi :)
08:00 < trsa> hello :)
08:00 < trsa> mouses ty i'll try that one
08:00 < Rembo> revel: https://hastebin.com/umiqiruwar.nginx
08:01 < mouses> trsa: it's super light weight
08:01 < mouses> trsa: and very stable
08:01 < mouses> trsa: I run a fork of it on my ChromeOS laptops
08:01 < shan> i mean, it's not my thing, but even gnome i have to run with a window list or i go mental
08:01 < mouses> shan: i'm one of those weird people who prefers a TWM
08:01 < mouses> using i3-gapps lately
08:01 < mouses> in love with it
08:02 < shan> trsa: and if even that doesn't work, just get ubuntu minimal and install JWM, i guarantee it'll work
08:02 < shan> mouses: i tried i3
08:02 < revel> Rembo: Hmm. What distro? Does it have openssl 1.1 instead of/alongside openssl 1.0?
08:02 < mouses> shan: it's a learning curve for sure, but damn - I really love it
08:02 < shan> im not very good with a keyboard so it wasn't my thing
08:02 < mouses> shan: i'm not very good with a mouse so it's totally my thing :)
08:02 < shan> jonsjons uses it though.
08:02 < mouses> I love the look of it
08:04 < Rembo> revel: Debian GNU/Linux 9 \n \l
08:04 < shan> mouses: me too, i just dont see myself using it
08:04 < mouses> shan: check out my cool interface :)  https://imgur.com/a/2dOYbJ7
08:05 < revel> I'm pretty sure that has openssl ("libssl") 1.1 alongside openssl 1.0.
08:05 < shan> also who else thinks backslashes are retarded for directory management?
08:05 < shan> forward is where it's at
08:05 < revel> Rembo: Try asking #debian
08:05 < [R]> https://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2018/05/09/system76-and-the-lvfs/
08:05 < mouses> shan: I play a few games and just got a Windows 10 system for gaming - the OS makes me want to light the computer on fire
08:05 < [R]> haha, super terrific chinese crapware
08:05 < shan> gimme that sweet /home/sid/Downloads anyday over C:\cancer|system32 or whatever
08:06 < mouses> shan: ++++
08:06 < shan> woops, /home/shan, *I don't know who sid is, do you know who sid is ?*
08:07 < mouses> shan: I'm always mouses, makes live easy :)  https://mouses.xyz :)
08:07 < revel> https://wiki.openssl.org/index.php/OpenSSL_1.1.0_Changes#cURL
08:09  * shan has an awesome bash shell theme
08:10 < shan> it even shows what branch you're on when browsing a git repo
08:11 < revel> shan: oh-my-zsh?
08:12 < SuperSeriousCat> ^ That is a good one
08:13 < shan> revel: powerline
08:13 < revel> I prefer not depending on powerline fonts.
08:13 < shan> what's the gnome screenshot util called?
08:14 < revel> gnome-screenshot :P
08:14 < shan> no, the one with the options and things
08:14 < revel> gnome-screenshot -i
08:15 < shan> excellent, im replacing my screenshot command with that
08:15 < shan> i hate saving directly, sometimes i just need to select an area and it just goes nope
08:15 < shan> then i have to go looking for the utility in the menu
08:16 < shan> am i the only one who
08:16 < shan> am i the only one who's got  a keyboard shortcut for Terminal mapped
08:17 < shan> i just remembered it from Ubuntu back when i switched to fedora, and I COULD NOT COPE without it
08:17 < shan> so i just went back and set Ctrl-Alt-T just like in Ubuntu
08:17 < shan> it's awesome
08:17 < revel> I do, though I just use tmux, so I don't find myself using it too much.
08:21 < edisonbulb> running "date 051002202018.00" does not set the date
08:21 < edisonbulb> odd
08:21 < darthrocker> looking a recommendation on the best distro for data recovery
08:22 < ikonia> any distro will do darthrocker
08:22 < revel> Clonezilla, maybe.
08:22 < edisonbulb> timedatectl
08:22 < edisonbulb> Network time on: yes
08:23 < edisonbulb> that would be the problem :)
08:23 < dildoSwaggins> I've had good outcomes w/ Hiren's BootCD
08:23 < dildoSwaggins> https://sourceforge.net/projects/hirenscd2bootableusb/
08:23 < dildoSwaggins> while any distro will work, this is a bundle of tools aimed at data recovery
08:25 < darthrocker> cool thank you dildoSwaggins
08:26 < dildoSwaggins> you're welcome
08:28  * shan hugs all the ##linux people without whom he'd never have gotten this far with linux
08:32 < Sane> Hi, can anyone tell me how to stop my virtual machine from using this ip: 10.0.0.2?
08:38 < darthrocker> hmmm ... I have tried to get it fro ma couple of places and none of them work
08:39 < revel> Sane: ssh in and shut it down from there.
08:48 < darthrocker> hirens is discontinued... found this though https://gbatemp.net/threads/medicat-dvd-a-multiboot-linux-dvd.361577/
08:54 < xandroid52> finally im on linux
08:55 < xandroid52> it is much simple than windows
08:55 < dildoSwaggins> lol
08:55 < xandroid52> lmao that nick is wholesome
08:58 < Sane> Hi, I'm using this version of Linux - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AndLinux - can anyone tell me how to stop the machine from using this ip: 10.0.0.2?
08:59 < Sane> Some simple CL command or something
09:00 < Sane> Tried network bridge but that messes things up entirely
09:01 < dildoSwaggins> Sane, you might need to install a DHCP client and configure your network settings to get an IP from the gateway instead of getting a NAT IP
09:02 < Sane> Yes, sounds about right
09:02 < swift110> good xandroid52 which distro
09:02 < Sane> Could you possibly give me steps
09:03 < dildoSwaggins> actually, I misspoke. you do still want a NAT IP, but one that is issued by your gateway, not an internal network device
09:04 < Sane> dildoSwaggins, the OS is basically CLI though. What should I install using sudo apt-get and then what should I change and configure
09:05 < ][_R_][> Check the NetworkManager configs
09:06 < High_Priest> Sane, is that a virtual machine or not?
09:06 < ][_R_][> It's a CoLinux install
09:07 < ][_R_][> Which isn't quite a full VM
09:07 < Sane> High_Priest, andLinux is an Ubuntu-based system using the Linux kernel designed to run a Linux environment natively on Windows systems. Yes, I guess
09:07 < Sane> Correct
09:08 < High_Priest> Sane, and you want it to access - which network? the same as windows host?
09:08 < Sane> Yeah
09:08 < Sane> Using network bridge basically messes up access to andLinux altogether, so can't do that
09:09 < dildoSwaggins> Sane, sorry, i dont mean to go all quiet on you, i'm trying to find the best resource to direct you to
09:09 < Sane> That's cool
09:09 < dildoSwaggins> but I'll be honest, I've never used the OS you're using so I can't guarantee anything I recommend will work
09:09 < High_Priest> Sane, do you have some kind of a console to access that VM directly, without network?
09:10 < Sane> I have a terminal
09:10 < dildoSwaggins> i think you ultimately need to edit your /etc/network/interfaces file
09:10 < dildoSwaggins> in windows, open CMD and run "ipconfig /all"
09:10 < High_Priest> Sane, so what stops you from adding an IP manually, in the bridge mode?
09:10 < ][_R_][> http://colinux.wikia.com/wiki/Network <-- FYI
09:11 < jim> see if you have interfaces... run: ifconfig -a
09:11 < dildoSwaggins> take the settings it gives you for gateway, DNS, etc and put them in your /etc/network/interfaces file
09:15 < darthrocker> welcome xandroid52
09:17 < swift110> hm
09:21 < Sane> jim, dildoSwaggins. No interfaces. And it seems it's using eth0 10.0.2* instead of eth1 192.168*
09:47 < jim> Sane, is that machine have net? (try: ping yahoo.com)
09:48 < NetTerminalGene> ping gnu.org
09:48 < jim> or that
09:49 < stevendale> Comic Sans is the greatest font ever created
09:50 < ultrixx> stevendale: why?
10:00 < ShapeShifter499> hi
10:00 < jim> hi
10:03 < stevendale> Hi ShapeShifter499
10:03 < ShapeShifter499> does anyone have experience trying to set up hooks with mkinitcpio and initramfs?        I'm trying to debug why the system isn't mounting my encrypted root partition correctly at boot.   I'm using this https://github.com/grazzolini/mkinitcpio-utils         If I invoke the command manually "source /init_functions  resolve_device UUID=<the device uuid>"  in the initramfs shell I get the following  "sh: bad number" then my actual
10:03 < ShapeShifter499> device "/dev/mmcblk0p2"
10:04 < Sane> interface was so missing, so I did: sudo-apt-get install resolvconf which went to /etc/resolvconf/run/interface
10:04 < ShapeShifter499> I don't know what is triggering the "sh: bad number"
10:04 < ShapeShifter499> does anyone have any ideas?
10:06 < jim> Sane, well, how do you get your IP address? did someone hand it to you and you have to set your computer to it manually? or maybe, does it do dhcp?
10:09 < jim> Sane, can you hear this/'
10:09 < jim> ?
10:10 < SuperSeriousCat> Doubt Sane got text-to-speech enabled on IRC
10:10 < jim> oh, is he blind?
10:11 < ShapeShifter499> nothing against blind people but it would suck so badly to work with something like Linux blind
10:11 < SuperSeriousCat> It dont look like it
10:12 < jim> of course I also hav nothing against blind people; I just didn't know
10:12 < NGC3982> irc-to-tts sounds like a hard time.
10:13 < NGC3982> jim: you blind apologist!
10:13 < SuperSeriousCat> You'd want to be in a low traffic room for that :p
10:13 < NGC3982> and ignore parts and joins, for starters. :-p
10:13 < ShapeShifter499> irc-to-tts actually doesn't sound to bad...    filter out the "joins/departs"   maybe limit speech to highlights only
10:14 < NGC3982> until someone realizes the start and stop syntax of the tts
10:15 < NGC3982> i have seen web chats for blind people that uses "username say: <text> end of line". people had a good time fabricating end of lines :-p
10:15 < markeczzz>  Hi! I have one virtual lxc container running CentOS7 that is acting weird.
10:15 < markeczzz> It has only 256MB of RAM and 256MB swap. Usual memory usage is around 20%.But sometimes that container goes wild and starts using swap and starts crashing app running on it. RAM usage stays same at around 20-30%. How to troubleshoot and fix this?
10:16 < lukey> markeczzz: Have you access to the kernel log?
10:16 < jim> oh hi, just saw you on ##linux-ops
10:17 < ShapeShifter499> I had to search around but this 'resolve_devices"   seems to be the same one as the one I see when I look at the init_functions I have in my initramfs   https://github.com/mmonaco/mkinitcpio/blob/b1d0d44ce403bc75d2c3596e709676fc8d73eda0/init_functions#L161              Does anyone know why using this to check a location of a UUID would cause "sh: bad number"  before spiting out the actual location?
10:17 < ShapeShifter499> It should be one lined
10:18 < ShapeShifter499> the extra "sh: bad number" is tripping up a hook I have
10:19 < markeczzz> I have access to hypervisor log
10:19 < Triffid_Hunter> ShapeShifter499: usually initramfs uses ash from busybox for shell, so maybe see if ash has something like bash's -x option to help debug
10:19 < stevendale> Hi Triffid_Hunter :P
10:20 < markeczzz> I am getting stuff like this when it happened
10:20 < markeczzz> Killed process 23985 (abc) total-vm:180276kB, anon-rss:45984kB, file-rss:0kB, shmem-rss:0kB
10:20 < markeczzz> kern.err kernel: [14860219.933341] Memory cgroup out of memory: Kill process 23985 (abc) score 88 or sacrifice child
10:21 < Triffid_Hunter> markeczzz: ah so there's per-cgroup memory limits? neat
10:22 < lukey> Triffid_Hunter: Yep, it even swaps out when memory gets tight in the cgroup
10:24 < ShapeShifter499> Triffid_Hunter: thanks for the hint!    This line appears to be returning a "bad number"  when it's fed the actual location of the UUID partition /dev/mmcblk0p2        https://github.com/GNU-Pony/initram/blob/3bc30616e7da0efbdff047d5906c76c9521cb341/src/init_functions#L199
10:24 < markeczzz> So you are saying i need more memory? Because when i check with top it says i have enough free memory. Shouldn't it be using that then instead of swap?
10:25 < ShapeShifter499> Triffid_Hunter: "$udevd_running"    is empty
10:26 < ShapeShifter499> [ -z "$dev" -a "$udevd_running" -eq 1 ]       becomes       [ -z /dev/mmcblk0p2 -a -eq 1 ]    on my system
10:27 < Triffid_Hunter> ShapeShifter499: yeah ash ain't gonna like that
10:27 < lukey> could you provide the full output of the oom messages in a pastebin?
10:27 < ShapeShifter499> is udevd   supposed to be running this early at boot?
10:27 < Triffid_Hunter> markeczzz: it sounds like your cgroup's memory limit is too low for something that happens in that cgroup
10:29 < ShapeShifter499> Triffid_Hunter: any other ideas how I should fix this?
10:30 < Triffid_Hunter> ShapeShifter499: go have a poke at where that variable comes from, or simply take out the check if you know udev will never be running
10:31 < ShapeShifter499> it seems like udev should be running, I have no idea why it isn't
10:32 < Triffid_Hunter> ShapeShifter499: in the initramfs with busybox? nah that's no place for udev.. busybox has a vastly smaller thing called mdev, just enough to populate /dev with basic nodes and act as a hot-add hook
10:34 < pingfloyd> markeczzz: it's not going to use physical memory that you tell it not to
10:34 < ShapeShifter499> Triffid_Hunter: I don't know too terribly much about initramfs.  I don't even know where that 'resolve_devices'  code is coming from or what is generating it
10:36 < ShapeShifter499> uh netsplit?
10:36 < lukey> D:
10:38 < hibou> 1
10:38 < hibou> 1
10:38 < hibou> 1
10:38 < hibou> 1
10:40 < ShapeShifter499> don't worry, that guy who tripped over some of the Freenode servers power supplies will be reprimanded
10:40 < hibou> 1
10:40 < NGC3982> he will be celebrated, because now someone can update that kernel properly
10:40 < hibou> 1
10:40 < NGC3982> hibou: we can here you.
10:40 < hibou> NGC3982: 1
10:41 < MrElendig> he is doing that in all channels he is in
10:41 < hibou> 1
10:42 < MrElendig> !ops hibou is a spambot
10:42 < ShapeShifter499> what's the [m]  next to some of the usernames?
10:42 < ShapeShifter499> er I should ask that in #freenode channel
10:42 < hibou> 1
10:42 < hibou> 1
10:42 < hibou> 1
10:43 < sauvin> Think that's a matrix.org thing, might denote membership.
10:43 < hibou> 1
10:43 < MrElendig> ShapeShifter499: indicates a matrix gateway
10:43 < hibou> 1
10:43 < MrElendig> see their /whois
10:43 < sauvin> That's the first time I've ever seen a proxad bot speak - or have an account.
10:44 < MrElendig> he is in #vim too but a bit more quiet
10:44 < ShapeShifter499> first time I heard of a "matrix gateway"
10:45 < sauvin> I ban it from time to time for being unstable.
10:46 < MrElendig> it's the only way to make matrix useful, without it there would be no one to talk to!
10:47 < lopid> not the only channel to ban it
10:48 < pingfloyd> should k-line it
10:48 < ShapeShifter499> Triffid_Hunter: I have 'udev' in my mkinitcpio hooks. This would take care of the issue wouldn't it?
10:48 < ShapeShifter499> I mean it should, it doesn't
10:49 < pingfloyd> ShapeShifter499: which dist are you trying to do all of this with?
10:49 < pingfloyd> also, is your /boot encrypted or clear?
10:49 < ShapeShifter499> pingfloyd: Arch Linux Arm on a Raspberry Pi 3B+       /boot is completely clear
10:50 < MrElendig> usually you would pass it in as cryptdevice=.... but then again -arm might have modified it
10:50 < ShapeShifter499> I am passing it, but I'm using a special hook that should allow me to ssh in with a key to be able to remotely decrypt
10:51 < ShapeShifter499> https://github.com/grazzolini/mkinitcpio-utils
10:51 < pingfloyd> ShapeShifter499: did you start with this? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Encrypting_an_entire_system
10:51 < pingfloyd> is LVM involved at all?
10:51 < Triffid_Hunter> ShapeShifter499: hmm I'm not familiar with mkinitcpio, I just made my own by hand when I was using initramfs
10:52 < pingfloyd> that wiki has mkinitcpio examples
10:52 < pingfloyd> .e.g., what hooks you need to change depending on what all you need to support
10:53 < ShapeShifter499> pingfloyd: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Specialties#Remote_unlocking_.28hooks:_netconf.2C_dropbear.2C_tinyssh.2C_ppp.29     I'm there
10:54 < ShapeShifter499> no just LUKS
11:01 < LissajousPattern> good morning all
11:02  * Pentode grumbles
11:11 < mnfrmtmrrw_> is anyone here using CMUS for music playback? I am trying to wrap my head around it's search function and cannot find it documented anywhere except for the bare basics. Perhaps best if you PM me if you think you can help me.
11:13 < MrElendig> 200€/h + tax
11:13 < MrElendig> and 2€ for every line typed
11:15 < bullgard4> [Debian testing] '# systemctl start mountall.service' replies: "Failed to start mountall.service: Unit mountall.service is masked." <-- What does mean "is masked"? Does it mean "is inhibited"?
11:15 < GodOfSea> Hello
11:15 < felixcra> morning
11:15 < MrElendig> bullgard4: it means that someone don't want you to start it
11:15 < MrElendig> bullgard4: man systemctl /mask
11:16 < GodOfSea> anyone got a link or tutorial on how to add a new user/ email to an existing postfix config
11:17 < sandman13> is NFS affected by underlying filesystem? Like if I transfer a compressed file on a share which is hosted on ZFS on server side, would it be recompressed?
11:19 < MrElendig> GodOfSea: postfix docs are not that bad, and exactly how to do it depends on the system setup, eg if you are using some sql backend / ldap / similar  or plain .cf
11:21 < bullgard4> MrElendig: I found there: " Completely disabled, so that any start operation on it fails." - Thank you for your help.
11:21 < felixcra> guys is it "normal" that if I create a new primary partition on sda4 I can see it with fdiks -l /dev/sda4 but not with fdisk -l. Furthermore what makes me wonder is that my new partition sda4p1 does not show up in /dev even after a restart and calling partprobe
11:22 < shan> omg wireless keyboards are so rad
11:22 < MrElendig> felixcra: you created a partition inside a partition?
11:22 < MrElendig> felixcra: if so yes
11:22 < MrElendig> felixcra: fdisk does not list recursive tables
11:23 < felixcra> MrElendig oh...I guess this is not what I wanted to do
11:23 < MrElendig> what are you trying to do?
11:23 < MrElendig> just have > 4 partitions?
11:24 < MrElendig> if so you have to use an extended partition with logical partitions inside (which is a recursive partition table, but a special one)
11:24 < MrElendig> or better, switch to gpt
11:24 < felixcra> Trying to understand partitions and the vfs and more...I thougth about to start creating a test partition....so is it that sdax are partitions on my device sda?
11:25 < MrElendig> if you want to play around: you could make a 5gb file and then create a table in that file
11:25 < MrElendig> avoids the risk of accidentally fubaring your system due to a typo or pebcak
11:26 < MrElendig> doesn't even need root
11:27 < felixcra> So I can create a partition table inside of a file?
11:27 < stevendale> Granny is taking me out for dinner tomorrow night
11:27 < stevendale> I am so happy
11:27 < stevendale> Sister took me to a fish & chips shop for lunch today and I had a piece of battered cod and more chips than I could eat
11:29 < shan> stevendale: say French fries or the americans will be offended
11:30 < gidna> Hello
11:30 < gidna> IS there a way to convert a pdf to an epub?
11:30 < stevendale> shan: :( French fries (especially McDonalds onces) are gross
11:31 < mouses> gidna: calibre can do that via it's CLI tool 'ebook-convert'
11:31 < shan> gidna: pdf is one of the worst source formats to convert from tho
11:31 < mouses> $ ebook-convert foo.pdf bar.epub
11:32 < stevendale> Can't you just get a pdf reader for your epub device
11:32 < shan> i just got a new keyboard, it's so much better than the old one, but since it's the same manufacturer, Dell, the layout is the same
11:32 < stevendale> shan: Nice :D
11:32 < stevendale> shan: I like the keyboards Dell puts on their laptops :P
11:33 < shan> and so all the keyboard keys are in the same place, so if i instinctively reach for the volume keys or something i'll be reaching for the same place
11:33 < shan> gawd, there's so little force needed
11:33 < shan> it's amazing
11:33 < stevendale> Volume keys? :P
11:33 < stevendale> I use hardware buttons, haha
11:33 < shan> i dont has those
11:34 < shan> because my keyboard has them
11:34 < shan> but unfortunately, it doesn't have caps/num lock indicators so i installed a panel extension for that
11:34 < shan> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/oEuQlX6U/image.png
11:39 < djph> ew, I hate those keyboards where you just look at them and they start typing
11:40 < epicmetal> lol
11:41 < Bebef> Key labels are highly overrated.
11:42 < djph> eh, I could probably get used to one of those label-less ones.  But it would take a while.
11:43 < djph> I'm not that good of a touch-typist
11:43 < Ace__> how to convert JPGs to a single pdf?
11:43 < Ace__> does convert offer the highest quality?
11:43 < stevendale> More than one JPG in a single pdf Ace__?
11:43 < Ace__> or are there other options offering better solutions such as recognising text etc.
11:43 < stevendale> You'll probably need Adobe Acrobat XI
11:44 < Ace__> stevendale: yes
11:44 < shan> djph: it's not that low an activation force
11:44 < shan> but it is low
11:45 < pingfloyd> those are nice
11:45 < pingfloyd> you can type faster on them
11:46 < shan> pingfloyd: ikr
11:46 < shan> i can feel myself typing faster
11:50 < Ace__> wow what happened
11:51 < djph> shan: ah.  I like the midrange ones, although even the "heavy" laptop keyboards feel a little too giving for me.  When I can finally afford a new desktop, gonna go with one of the heavier cherry ones
11:51 < shan> Ace__: all of them have the same gateway
11:52 < stevendale> Anybody else played SPORE? :D
11:52 < pingfloyd> you're a spore
11:53 < shan> djph: i have a budget one, i got mine in a wireless kb/m combo for $15
11:53 < djph> what's it, the cherry blue, I think?
11:53 < stevendale> pingfloyd: That wasn't verry nice :P
11:53 < shan> http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-wireless-keyboard-and-mouse-km117/apd/580-afqv/pc-accessories
11:53 < shan> djph: cherry blues are much more expensive than $15
11:53 < pingfloyd> stevendale: you're a mold? better?
11:53 < shan> atleast $30
11:53 < djph> I mean, I'd *rather* have another Model M, but they're hard to find
11:54 < shan> djph: https://www.pckeyboard.com/
11:55 < pingfloyd> get one of those 1980 ones that weighs more than a heavier laptop
11:55 < shan> djph: also, https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/
11:56 < djph> shan: *unicomp* is not the original Model M
11:56 < shan> 'not the original but still
11:56 < shan> close
11:56 < djph> There's a reason I said I wanted another Model M.
11:56 < stevendale> shan: http://www.dell.com/en-au/work/shop/business-laptops-ultrabooks-and-tablets/latitude-e5400-laptop/spd/latitude-e5400
11:56 < Ace__> as I was asking, are there any linux commands/programs that can convert JPGs that contain text to PDFs in which you can interact with the words? i.e. highlight, copy etc.?
11:57 < pingfloyd> https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a27123/model-f-project-buckling-spring-keyboard/
11:57 < djph> pingfloyd: yeah, that's the one
11:57 < shan> stevendale: THINKPAD BEST
11:57 < MrElendig> Ace__: there are a lot of OCR software out there
11:57 < shan> Ace__: ocr is your best bet yeah
11:57 < MrElendig> gnu even has one
11:57 < stevendale> shan: http://www.dell.com/en-au/work/shop/business-laptops-ultrabooks-and-tablets/dell-latitude-e6330-premier-laptop/spd/latitude-e6330
11:57 < MrElendig> (it's actually pretty decent too)
11:58 < shan> stevendale: NUUU
11:58 < shan> THINKPAD BEST
11:58 < Ace__> MrElendig: any one in particular? I searched an a bunch came up
11:58 < stevendale> Those are two (I have three) of my Dell laptops shan :P I can't find my Inspiron 6000 on the Dell site though haha
11:59 < shan> best wifi adapter for linux: samsung galaxy tab 3
11:59 < djph> shan: Intel, bar none.
11:59 < shan> plug it in, usb tethering, you're good to go
11:59 < beshoo> dear all , i have strange problem . when i start this command from cli "/bin/supervisord -c /etc/supervisord.conf" it work just fine but when i put it in bash script , strange things returned
11:59 < beshoo> and it dos not start
11:59 < MrElendig> Ace__: see my hint about the gnu one
12:00 < pingfloyd> does anyone use monochrome monitors anymore?
12:00 < MrElendig> ocrad is not too bad
12:00 < MrElendig> tesseract is another popular one
12:00 < shan> djph: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/uIoemevk/24y43o.jpg
12:00 < djph> shan: hmm, about what?
12:01 < MrElendig> there is also gscan2pdf if you want something "ready to use"
12:01 < beshoo> it is inside function
12:01 < MrElendig> (but it is not terribly good)
12:01 < Ace__> MrElendig: thank you :) cheers
12:01 < shan> djph: android usb tethering > intel wireless adapter
12:01 < pingfloyd> I remember in the 80s having a Magnavox monitor that could switch between color and monochrome with a simple button on it.
12:01 < MrElendig> it is a wrapper for several ocr engines
12:01 < MrElendig> but could do with some more options for tweaking
12:02 < pingfloyd> found a pic of it http://www.atariage.com/forums/gallery_ips/1272671240/gallery_6701_528_34135.jpg
12:02 < djph> shan: nah.  phones are typically +0 dBi antennas.  Intels are usually +3 (typical laptop).  Also, you don't have to worry about "USB Tethering" or anything.  That being said, if you have a shitty laptop that won't let you replace the bargain-bing card (I'm lookin' at you, HP) ...
12:03 < shan> djph: im on a desktop that i can't connect to wired for now
12:03 < shan> soon
12:03 < shan> soooon
12:03 < stevendale> Oh shan
12:03 < pingfloyd> yeah intel for wifi is very trouble free
12:04 < shan> stevendale: ???
12:04 < stevendale> Have you tried Windows, if Wired doesn't work in Linux there's a good chance it will work for Linux, especially in older Ethernet chipsets and weird modems
12:04 < shan> ewww
12:04 < shan> windows
12:04 < pingfloyd> I haven't had too many problems with a RTL8188EE in debian either
12:05 < shan> i physically cannot connect to wired
12:05 < stevendale> I have a PC that only connects via Ethernet on Windows, it's silly
12:05 < shan> there are no cables in my room
12:05 < djph> shan: so get a desktop adapter (they're actually pretty neat these days - the desktop card is just an adapter for a laptop card)
12:05 < pingfloyd> might have to watch out with realtek though.  But I think that was more in the past.
12:05 < shan> djph: no money
12:05 < djph> but I mean, if you already have the phone, no biggie :)
12:05 < stevendale> You can get an 802.11b/g 2.4 GHz conventional PCI card for $10 or $12 probably
12:05 < stevendale> Save up that pocket money
12:06 < shan> djph: the tablet is dedicated to this
12:06 < shan> i use it for nothing else
12:06 < djph> shan: no one wants your 1995-era crapass stuff
12:06 < pingfloyd> stevendale: you mean you can't get the wifi working?
12:06 < dgurney> that sounds like an antique lol
12:06 < djph> oops
12:06 < djph> stevendale: ^
12:06 < shan> i'll be changing my desktop room soon anyway
12:06 < shan> djph: lol
12:06 < stevendale> pingfloyd Nah, Ethernet :)
12:06 < shan> the oldest thing on my pc is probably the cpu
12:06 < shan> i7-3770 ftw
12:07 < stevendale> shan I am using a laptop with a 32-bit Intel CPU :)
12:07 < pingfloyd> if it's a desktop, I'd go wired
12:07 < shan> stevendale: i need an old laptop actually
12:07 < shan> just enough oomph to ssh into my home rig
12:08 < stevendale> Here's the processor shan: https://ark.intel.com/products/27590/Intel-Pentium-M-Processor-740-2M-Cache-1_73-GHz-533-MHz-FSB
12:08 < shan> ok not that little oomph
12:08 < shan> also vnc into my home rig
12:08 < SkunkyFone> wow that's old.
12:08 < dgurney> my condolences
12:08 < stevendale> Only 2004 or 2005 SkunkyFone :)
12:08 < stevendale> I mean, the laptop is
12:09 < shan> stevendale: 14 years old then
12:09 < dgurney> "only"
12:09 < shan> only a year younger than i am
12:09 < dgurney> hate to break it to you, but it's not only anymore lol
12:09 < pingfloyd> stevendale: at that point, you'd still be far better off with a cheapo modern laptop
12:09 < pingfloyd> like a $300 one
12:09 < stevendale> Yep, I bought a replacement battery for it yesterday
12:09 < shan> pingfloyd: more like a $150 one
12:09 < shan> hisense chromebook == greater than that
12:09 < stevendale> It holds 19% of design capacity right now
12:09 < pingfloyd> anything modern is going to be better than that pentium M
12:10 < stevendale> So I figured it is time for a new batt
12:10 < djph> shan: they're actually stupid cheap.  Intel 8265 (with a desktop PCIe card) is like $40
12:10 < shan> dell inspiron 15 3000 == greater than that with its trash celeron n3060
12:10 < pingfloyd> probably even an Obama Phone
12:10 < djph> shan: (I was actually surprised - just checked now)
12:10 < shan> djph: tablet is a hand me down
12:10 < pingfloyd> I got to have at least a laptop
12:10 < Armand> pingfloyd: Pentium M is teh sex
12:10 < djph> shan: Oh, I wasn't saying "oh, it's only $40, stop being poor" ... was more "holy crap, that's a lot less than I thought"
12:10 < pingfloyd> tablet maybe as secondary  device
12:11 < shan> stevendale: get a thinkpad from 2010, it'll beat the crap out of your pentium m
12:11 < stevendale> Hey shan: My newest computer has this: https://ark.intel.com/products/71257/Intel-Core-i5-3340M-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-3_40-GHz
12:11 < shan> djph: i know, jusut saying
12:11 < shan> is free
12:11 < djph> shan: hell, a phone :)
12:11 < pingfloyd> Armand: did it give you a boner?
12:11 < Armand> Hell, yeah!
12:11 < Armand> :D
12:11 < dgurney> can vouch for used thinkpads
12:11 < Armand> lol
12:11 < pingfloyd> I knew it
12:11 < Armand> pingfloyd: I've got 3x 2GHz Dothan chips.. I stuffed one into a desktop board. :D
12:11 < pingfloyd> your crush on it is biasing your judgment
12:12 < Armand> Damn right
12:12 < stevendale> My tomcat puts up with me rubbing his tummy
12:12  * shan thinks of crushes and is sad he has no romantic partner
12:12 < stevendale> I'm the only one he lets do it :P
12:12 < djph> shan: definitely.  I'm just arguing against your global "best" statement.  Now, "best card that I got for free-99" (or "best card that works in a pinch"), okay, yeah, i'm not gonna argue that point.
12:12 < pingfloyd> Armand: how did you do that?
12:12 < Armand> Hold on. :)
12:13 < pingfloyd> did the board have multiple sockets?
12:13 < stevendale> Anybody else and he'll start biting and kicking with both back legs
12:13 < shan> ok fine i amend my statement to best cheapie solution that works well
12:13 < Armand> pingfloyd: https://www.cnet.com/products/msi-915gm-speedster-fa4-motherboard-micro-atx-socket-478-mobile-i915gm-series/specs/
12:13  * cheapie is not a good solution for whatever your problem is
12:13 < Armand> SATA, PCI-E, DDR/DDR2..
12:13 < djph> shan: agreed :).  I'm more a "use the phone" guy, but yeah, they're great in a pinch.
12:14 < shan> djph: i have a separate phone
12:14 < shan> the tablet is too trash to do stuff on
12:15 < djph> shan: I figured that one out on my own :).  When I need those quick-and-dirty fixes, a tablet's too big.
12:15 < pingfloyd> tablets seem almost superfluous with how good phones are these days
12:15 < shan> tablets suck ass esp since phones are bigger now
12:15 < Armand> pingfloyd: Sorry, this one is better.. http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/msi-915gm-speedster-fa4-pentium-m-motherboard
12:15 < djph> honestly, we need phones to get smaller, and do less, and be implants ... and tablets to ... I dunno.
12:16 < dogbert2> lol
12:16 < shan> i'd volunteer for a phone to be implanted in my head
12:16 < pingfloyd> djph: ... to throw in the trash
12:17 < djph> pingfloyd: works for me
12:17 < stevendale> shan: How's my i5 o3o
12:17 < djph> shan: IKR?
12:17 < pingfloyd> or give them to your kids
12:17 < shan> stevendale: better
12:17 < pingfloyd> you know they'll crack the screen, but oh well
12:17 < shan> djph: like, a portion of my brain still on irc while im asleep
12:17 < shan> the ultimate bouncer
12:18 < djph> although, that startrek (TOS) communicator BT "headset" was great (too expensive for me though :( )
12:18 < Armand> stevendale: You can send that Pentium M my way. :D
12:18 < shan> djph: AR games that don't need you to hold a phone
12:18 < pingfloyd> if you're going to be that headset guy, you want one that is hard to see
12:19 < shan> texting at the speed of thought
12:19 < stevendale> Armand: I still play Mech Warrior 4 Mercenaries, Halo Combat Evolved, Warcraft III, Diablo II, Starcraft: Broodwar, DOOM II, The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, on it
12:19 < djph> shan: I was just talking to a buddy of mine about that -- if google would've released their glasses (for less) along with that "Ingress" game by Niantic (or some other AR game), all us normal nerds would've been like "I'LL TAKE TWO!"
12:19 < Ace__> tesseract did not turn out great at all haha
12:19 < stevendale> And a lot of other games
12:19 < stevendale> It's my gaming machine for games pre-2010
12:20 < stevendale> Lovely Intel 915GM graphics, handles those titles nicely :)
12:20 < shan> djph: would you really trust google to be inside your head
12:21 < djph> shan: I trust them to always be in my pocket, so ...
12:21 < pingfloyd> they'll program you to be a good consumer that marches off to war
12:21 < djph> pingfloyd: that's not Google, that's the "education(tm)" system.
12:21 < blaztek> stevendale: is anyone still on multiplayer for Diablo II?
12:21 < shan> djph: just saying, you'd have a pretty big cc bill by the end of the year
12:21 < shan> with all the impulse buys from google ads
12:22 < pingfloyd> djph: the education system just sends to kids off to google for answers now
12:22 < djph> shan: nah, don't link my cc to my google-anything.
12:22 < shan> djph: but your info is in your head
12:22 < djph> pingfloyd: I know, it's a tragedy.
12:22 < djph> shan: ha, like I remember my cc number / cvv code
12:22 < pingfloyd> and to make matters worse many of them take a detour to facebook and twitter etc.
12:22 < shan> djph: wait, im the only one who does that?
12:23 < djph> I'm actually dreading my kid going to school
12:23 < djph> shan: I guess so!  I mean, I remember the last couple digits of each, but which cvv code goes to which card? naaaa
12:23 < djph> pingfloyd: I mean, new-maths?
12:24 < pingfloyd> what is that?
12:24 < pingfloyd> is that like New Pied Piper?
12:24 < shan> djph: have you seen that tom scott talk
12:24 < jim> 2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2
12:24 < shan> Blocking In Real Life
12:24 < pingfloyd> or New Coke?
12:24 < djph> shan: which one was that?
12:24 < dogbert2> that's where you take math but don't really learn and understand it :P
12:25 < shan> djph: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq7oauciBdc
12:25 < pingfloyd> are those alternative calculations?
12:25 < stevendale> Servers are still up blaztek o/
12:25 < djph> pingfloyd: honestly, I don't know since I've yet to personally experience it -- from what I've seen / read (which are vague, at best), it involved drawing bubbles on your papers and dropping nines
12:26 < shan> djph: it'd be so amazing to drown someone out whm you don't want to listen to by playing music directly into your brain
12:26 < pingfloyd> djph: you sure the amway cult hasn't just taken over their school?
12:26 < shan> and have them not even know
12:26 < blaztek> stevendale: I'll check it out. I love that game.
12:27 < djph> pingfloyd: I have no idea.  The closest I have is my cousins whose kids are *just* getting into multi-digit addition
12:27 < djph> *multi-digit addition / subtraction
12:28 < pingfloyd> is that where they group everything into 10s and 5s?
12:28 < djph> shan: ah, I think I've seen that one, but it's been a while
12:28 < dogbert2> lim (x->5) (x^2 - 25) / (x - 5)
12:28 < djph> pingfloyd: something like that, yeah.  So honestly not sure how far up the chain of math it goes.
12:29 < djph> dogbert2: 11 :P
12:29 < dogbert2> LOLOL...
12:29 < djph> 9.999999(repeat-forever)
12:29 < dogbert2> close enuf :P
12:30 < djph> :D
12:30 < sir_guy_carleton> hello
12:30 < dogbert2> welp, going back to bed...microsoft updates for windows, office updates, etc... :P
12:30 < djph> good luck
12:31 < sir_guy_carleton> bon chance
12:31 < dogbert2> the bed usually loses the argument :P
12:31 < dogbert2> updates already installed and system restarted :)
12:31 < sir_guy_carleton> does compton usually start with the display manager?
12:32 < shan> djph: tis amazing
12:32 < stevendale> I could do with some titties shan
12:32 < stevendale> Jk jk
12:32 < shan> stevendale: shh, it's sfw here, they'll cut your mouth off
12:33 < djph> shan: I wouldn't mind blocking stevendale in real life.
12:33 < pingfloyd> dogbert2: there are only 10 types of math people.  Those whose like math and those who don't.
12:33 < shan> djph: but you don't know him in real life
12:33 < djph> shan: while true, I wouldn't have to ever suffer running into him by chance then either.
12:33 < shan> pingfloyd: pls tell me that was a binary joke
12:34 < pingfloyd> shan: it was
12:34 < stevendale> I'm not that bad djph, I'm only a furry :3
12:34 < shan> djph: what if he got plastic surgery or summin
12:34 < djph> shan: still working out the kinks
12:35 < djph> :D
12:35 < shan> lol
12:35 < shan> how am i getting such trash signal on my keyboard
12:36 < sir_guy_carleton> how do i disable compton in kde plasma5 withou uninstalling compton?
12:36 < djph> shan: because it's not plugged in
12:37 < shan> djph: yes it is, but there's a lot of latency
12:37 < djph> o_O
12:37 < shan> the mouse works fine, its just the keyboard freaking out
12:37 < shan> linux bug>
12:37 < shan> linux bug?*
12:37 < pingfloyd> I had a dream once where I was back in the 80s and the computers were physically the same, but had even more horsepower than today.  Also the only UI was still text.
12:37 < djph> I haven't seen that since USB 1.0 days, and consumer-tier desktops
12:37 < stevendale> Have you tried restarting it shan
12:38 < shan> stevendale: there's no power switch
12:38 < promach_> For Kcachegrind , How do I save the all callee data in tabular format as in https://i.imgur.com/itKGHwC.png ?
12:38 < stevendale> shan I mean the computer
12:38 < djph> pingfloyd: because of the text UI.  When a computer isn't spending 80-billion cycles on drawing a screen ...
12:38 < shan> stevendale: could it be because the wifi adapter is also on the 2.4 ghz band tho
12:38 < stevendale> shan No
12:39 < djph> shan: didn't you just say the KB was *plugged in*?
12:39 < shan> djph: wireless keyboard
12:39 < stevendale> There's your problem
12:39 < stevendale> wireless k/bs are crappy
12:39 < djph> ^
12:39 < shan> are all wireless kbs this bad at signal tho
12:39 < stevendale> Yep
12:39 < djph> for once, I agree with stevendale
12:39 < shan> hahah
12:40 < shan> now kiss
12:40 < djph> ew, no.
12:40 < blaztek> put in new batteries...that always works for me
12:40 < TheDcoder> I am going crazy with permission issues with qemu
12:40 < stevendale> I'm only sexually attracted to furries shan :P
12:40 < pingfloyd> sure recipe for failure with multiplayer gaming
12:41 < shan> blaztek: i just took it out og the packaging
12:41 < blaztek> return it for a wired
12:41 < TheDcoder> I am trying to store images for my VMs inside my big NTFS partition which is mount under my home directory... the problem is that qemu is not able to access anything from that partition
12:41 < shan> i already have a wired
12:41 < stevendale> Get a second wired
12:41 < TheDcoder> any suggestion on what I could do?
12:42 < stevendale> TheDcoder is ntfs-3g installed
12:42 < TheDcoder> yes
12:42 < stevendale> TheDcoder Have you tried a recursive chown in the root directory of the NTFS partition
12:42 < pingfloyd> why in an ntfs FS
12:43 < TheDcoder> no...
12:43 < pingfloyd> especially since you're virtualizing
12:43 < TheDcoder> NTFS doesn't support permissions...
12:43  * stevendale dies
12:43 < TheDcoder> lol
12:43 < pingfloyd> why not do it right instead?
12:43 < TheDcoder> Well my setup is kind of weird where I have a one large NTFS partition where I store all of my data
12:44 < djph> (A) NTFS doesn't do permissions. (B) how is the VM's network setup?
12:44 < shan> ext4 better
12:44 < TheDcoder> I have a multi-boot setup so I am sick of moving partition and running out of space
12:44 < shan> ntfs stupid
12:44 < pingfloyd> raw is better
12:44 < djph> or... wait, do you mean a VM can't load a *qcow file that's saved on the NTFS partition?
12:44 < stevendale> I tried installing Linux on a FAT32 partition
12:44 < TheDcoder> yes, but Windows is not able to use ext4, so I am using ntfs
12:44 < TheDcoder> Yes djph
12:45 < stevendale> It worked if it was puppy linux :P
12:45 < shan> TheDcoder: there actually is an ext4 driver
12:45 < BCMM> TheDcoder: specifically, all files on an NTFS filesystem are treated as having the same permissions, which you set when mounting the partition
12:45 < shan> it works perfectly
12:45 < stevendale> But I couldn't execute anything
12:45 < TheDcoder> shan: Not an open source one...
12:45 < pingfloyd> like use partitions, LVs, or VG for your VMs instead of an image
12:45 < BCMM> TheDcoder: can a shell, running as the same user as qemu, read files on that FS?
12:46  * stevendale dies
12:46 < TheDcoder> well I am not sure what qemu is running as, I am using libvirt and virt-manager to do all of the management
12:46 < stevendale> Not everything on your computer has to be open source
12:46 < stevendale> Why are you running Windows if you want open source
12:46 < stevendale> Windows is not open source
12:46 < TheDcoder> Well I am not trusting some Chinese program :P
12:46 < stevendale> Windows is a chinese program
12:46 < TheDcoder> LOL
12:46 < shan> TheDcoder: https://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsd/
12:47 < TheDcoder> Thanks for reminding me about it shan, last time I tried to use it, it didn't work properly
12:47 < BCMM> TheDcoder: well, i suggest you work out what user qemu is running as
12:47 < shan> TheDcoder: worked for me on win8.1
12:48 < BCMM> TheDcoder: and then adjust either the umask or the uid/gid mount options until qemu is happy
12:48 < shan> with ubuntu 14..04
12:48 < shan> ymmv
12:48 < TheDcoder> Okay, I will try to do that
12:48 < TheDcoder> I read somewhere than qemu runs as nobody, I would be screw if that were true
12:49 < TheDcoder> *screwed
12:49 < BCMM> TheDcoder: fwiw i've got a user called libvirt-qemu on my Debian Sid machine
12:50 < MrElendig> TheDcoder: better not use gnu nor linux then
12:50 < BluesKaj> Hiyas all
12:50 < stevendale> Hi BluesKaj
12:50 < BluesKaj> Hi stevendale
12:50 < TheDcoder> BCMM, I thought that was a group? I am not sure
12:50 < BCMM> so you could either just give the whole disk to libvirt-qemu, or establish a group for the disk and add libvirt-qemu to that group
12:51 < BCMM> TheDcoder: on my machine it's both
12:51 < TheDcoder> hmmm...
12:51 < pingfloyd> debian will have libvirt and libvirt-qemu groups also
12:51 < pingfloyd> upon installation of virt-manager
12:51 < TheDcoder> I am on Fedora, so I will have to double check things
12:51 < stevendale> TheDcoder: FSF sperg
12:51 < pingfloyd> been using virt-manager lately myself
12:51 < TheDcoder> ?
12:52 < stevendale> TheDcoder: Sorry, that was an insult, my apologies :P
12:52 < TheDcoder> well its good as long as I don't understand it
12:52 < TheDcoder> lol
12:52 < pingfloyd> TheDcoder: he's saying you're a free software foundation fanatic with aspergers.
12:52 < _sven> hello, is there an app for doing phonecalls using a sim card for linux?
12:53 < pingfloyd> TheDcoder: that's implication anyway
12:53 < TheDcoder> ah, I see
12:53 < promach_> For Kcachegrind , How do I save the all callee data in tabular format as in https://i.imgur.com/itKGHwC.png ?
12:53 < kuri0> https://system76.com/comingsoon
12:54 < kuri0> laptop made for linux with nvidia
12:54 < kuri0> *facepalm*
12:54 < TheDcoder> wow...
12:54 < revel> kuri0: https://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2018/05/09/system76-and-the-lvfs/
12:54 < pingfloyd> kuri0: those are garbage
13:00 < TheDcoder> how do I find out what user/group qemu is running as? sorry about the newbie question, having a bit of problem with finding it out through the documentation and internet
13:00 < TheDcoder> I do have a libvirt group so I guess I can give that group permission to my mount?
13:00 < TheDcoder> I will try
13:00 < MrElendig> depends on how you are starting it
13:01 < pingfloyd> TheDcoder: check it in ps
13:01 < TheDcoder> as far as I know, when I try to start the VM it starts for a brief moment and then it exits with a permission denied error
13:01 < TheDcoder> ps?
13:02 < TheDcoder> nice, I didn't know ps existed
13:02 < TheDcoder> but I am still not sure how I would be fast enough to run ps while qemu is running
13:02 < TheDcoder> it only does for a few moments I think
13:03 < Armand> stevendale: Sorry, was AFK... My Pentium M is currently gathering dust. I need to find a purpose for it.
13:04 < stevendale> Armand Mining Bitcoins with the CPU :D
13:04 < pingfloyd> TheDcoder: that happening when launching the vm in virt-manager?
13:04 < TheDcoder> yes
13:04 < TheDcoder> it exits with an error
13:04 < Armand> stevendale: Actually.. that's a good point. We're looking at new apartments and we found a place with bills included.
13:05 < pingfloyd> TheDcoder: your problem is that your user isn't in the libvirt and/or libvirt-qemu groups, probably
13:05 < TheDcoder> actually it happens when I try to create a new VM and start it for the first time to do installation
13:05 < TheDcoder> my user is in the libvirt group, but not in the qemu group...
13:06 < pingfloyd> TheDcoder: what are you using as  backing store for the VM?
13:06 < TheDcoder> backing store?
13:06 < pingfloyd> is it a qcow image on an ntfs FS?
13:06 < TheDcoder> yes, that is correct
13:06 < TheDcoder> qcow2 to be exact
13:06 < shan> djph, stevendale: the problem is my client, the lag is only in irccloud
13:07 < pingfloyd> okay, then you're probably on the right track with suspecting ntfs perms
13:07 < pingfloyd> those are going to generally be controlled by mount options you employed for it
13:07 < TheDcoder> okay, I have just added my user to the qemu group, not sure if that will help
13:08 < pingfloyd> I would use a partition, LV(s), or a VG instead and go raw
13:08 < MrElendig> kvm group might be more relevant, depending on the distro
13:08 < pingfloyd> in my case I have an LV for each VM
13:08 < TheDcoder> I wish I could use that route but partitioning is hard and it is a pain to move them around when space is an issue
13:08 < pingfloyd> that becomes the disk to the guest
13:08 < MrElendig> getfacl /dev/kvm
13:09 < TheDcoder> group: kvm
13:09 < learningc> How can I play a game from a headless computer by using the screen of another computer, both computer connected to same LAN?
13:10 < pingfloyd> TheDcoder: ps aux | grep [v]irt
13:10 < shan> learningc: vnc with the experimental screen capture thing enabled?
13:11 < pingfloyd> that's going to suck for games
13:11 < Sveta> learningc: did you check whether x2go works with headless servers?
13:11 < learningc> shan, Is that possible to run vnc while the game is running?
13:12 < pingfloyd> learningc: why wouldn't it?
13:12 < shan> learningc: sure. the better idea would be to use nvidia/steam in house streaming
13:12 < TheDcoder> pingfloyd: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/TJtkzhx7W7H-mcc~L5Yuvw
13:21 < TheDcoder> I have mounted my partition with the libvirt group
13:21 < TheDcoder> still not working...
13:21 < TheDcoder> Is it possible that SELinux might have something to do with this?
13:22 < TheDcoder> I am using Fedora so I have SELinux installed by default
13:22 < TheDcoder> the SELinux "context" for the default storage folder is different than my qcow2's context... maybe that is the problem
13:31 < stevendale> The last thing you ingested is your food for a week in a zombie apoclypse.. what was it?
13:31 < TheDcoder> fried zombie brains
13:32 < djph> some hooker...
13:32 < djph> :|
13:32 < BluesKaj> oh mad zombie disease
13:37 < louis__> I can't decide which chunk size to use with with a RAID 5 consisting of 4x 3TB discs in total. 128kb is default, but archwiki suggest 256kb and other suggest 515kb. I manily have files >500MB.
13:39 < djph> the chunk size is just the bytesize boundaries where a file gets split across drives
13:40 < djph> IIRC, 128 or 256 is about the sweet spot for RAID5
13:40 < djph> although, it might also be as small as 64
13:43 < louis__> djph: Maybe I should just go with default (128) then instead of choosing 256.
13:48 < drunknigga> looking for advice on important issue
13:48 < drunknigga> how to get poop off my scrotum?
13:49 < fendur> super clever.
13:49 < drunknigga> wut?
13:49 < drunknigga> nah dude
13:49 < drunknigga> if i was that clever
13:49 < drunknigga> i wouldnt have shit on my sack
13:50 < drunknigga> hi jim
13:50 <@jim> no.
13:50 < drunknigga> fuck u
13:50 < drunknigga> lol
13:50 < drunknigga> ops suck
13:50 < revel> Water.
13:50 < drunknigga> just joking
13:52 < jim> sorry for the noise
13:53 < BluesKaj> nice nick that
13:53 < BluesKaj> Hi jim
13:53 < jim> hi blues
13:53 < revel> Hey, jim!
13:53 < revel> gib op
13:53 < TheDcoder> lol
13:54 < jim> never gib op! never surrender!
13:54 < revel> TheDcoder: Well, it worked on another big channel :P
13:54 < revel> lol
13:54 < TheDcoder> lol
13:54 < revel> It was for just like half a minute.
13:54 < MrElendig> never let anyone down
13:55 < jim> especially if you have too short a rope
13:55 < TheDcoder> /msg ChanServ OP ##linux revel
13:55 < revel> Though that op said that somebody that had been given op like that before had some "f**k you" script to kick all the ops and ban everyone.
13:55 < MrElendig> https://youtu.be/PL-uPCeXRzM?t=119
13:56 < gidna> Hello
13:56 < gidna> I get this error while compiling https://nopaste.xyz/?3c9104284c6f9cf9#JJNRoJHX9DeHd3skfKHvv/nhG+Y/SqkFaeeW7L2dGYc=
13:56 < jim> yeah you don't want this job really
13:56 < jim> gidna hi
13:56  * fendur recalls the nastier days of efnet and channel takeovers
13:57 < MrElendig> gidna: talk to whoever wrote that code
13:57 < djph> louis__: probably :)
13:57 < TheDcoder> bragging rights
13:58 < nullifidian> Is discard mount option a requirement for ext4 to issue TRIM commands, or it autodetects drive's capability by itself?
13:59 < jim> gidna,  it looks to me like you're missing a lib
13:59 < TheDcoder> gidna: /join #libimobiledevice
13:59 < gidna> jim: Have I to link it?
14:02 < ice9> i burned windows iso to usb stick using dd but it's not detected during boot, any idea?
14:02 < TheDcoder> ice9: /join #windows
14:02 < TheDcoder> :P
14:03 < djph> windows isos don't boot the same way as *nix ones ... IDK why :(
14:03 < MrElendig> nullifidian: discard sort of conflicts with manual trim
14:03 < MrElendig> ice9: 1. you didn't burn anything using dd
14:03 < MrElendig> ice9: 2. microsoft is stupid and doesn't provide hybrid isos
14:03 < nullifidian> MrElendig, why would I want manual trim?
14:04 < MrElendig> ice9: is the hardware you want to use this on uefi capable?
14:04 < MrElendig> nullifidian: because some ssds are buggy
14:04 < ice9> MrElendig, yes and i have tried both efi and legacy modes
14:04 < MrElendig> nullifidian: if you want it realtime though then mount with the discard mount option
14:04 < MrElendig> ice9: for uefi you can simply create a partition on the stick and cp over the content of the .iso
14:04 < nullifidian> MrElendig, I have EVO 950
14:05 < MrElendig> the content, not the iso itself
14:05 < MrElendig> ice9: otherwise there is winusb and woeusb
14:05 < TheDcoder> or find a Windows machine and use Rufus
14:06 < frank__> ice9: sometimes it helps to use an other usb stick, especially if you use cheap giveaway ones like i did :P
14:06 < MrElendig> frank__: doesn't help as long as he is using dd
14:06 < MrElendig> microsoft thinks it is still 1998
14:06 < BCMM> ice9: CDs do not boot in the same way as USB sticks, and in general, ISO images will not work as expected on USB
14:07 < MrElendig> all sane gnu/linux distroes has hybrid images which do work
14:07 < BCMM> ice9: several distros, including debian and most derivatives, use "hybrid ISOs" which are specifically designed to boot from USB as well as from optical disks
14:07 < ice9> alright so i tried to blank or overwrite DVD RW DL using brasero/k3b/cdrecord and they all failed!
14:08 < BCMM> ice9: but windows ISOs do *not* work on USB sticks without modification. use https://github.com/slacka/WoeUSB
14:08 < MrElendig> https://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Isohybrid one implementation of hybrid
14:08 < TheDcoder> I wonder if a pirate has made an Hybrid ISO for Windpws
14:08 < djph> TheDcoder: yeah, they called it Lindows.
14:08 < MrElendig> why get a spyware laden pirate image when you can simply use cp
14:08 < TheDcoder> and it's dead :(
14:09 < djph> TheDcoder: I know
14:09 < BCMM> ice9: (or, if you have access to a windows machine, use the official Windows USB/DVD Download Tool)
14:09 < TheDcoder> or Rufus... second best alternative to Windows USB Tool
14:10 < BluesKaj> ice9,, to blank a cd/dvd,  sudo wodim dev=/dev/cdrom blank=fast
14:12 < ice9> Cannot blank DVD+RW media with non Ricoh based drive
14:12 < MrElendig> so your drive is the problem
14:13 < pingfloyd> for windows usb stick, you need to install a boot sector to it
14:13 < MrElendig> just use uefi and cp :p
14:13 < pingfloyd> use bootsect.exe for that
14:14 < djph> WHAT?@
14:14 < djph> O_O never seen anything cry that it needed a specific manufacturer's drive to be blanked
14:16 < pingfloyd> sounds more like a Windows "error message"
14:16 < pingfloyd> like the region change nonsense in Windows Media Player
14:17 < pingfloyd> that they let you change only 4 times
14:17 < MrElendig> djph: doesn't have to be that maker, but dvd is wroight with imcompability
14:17 < MrElendig> in*
14:17 < candidat> hello guys
14:17 < MrElendig> many drives are based on their original controller
14:17 < djph> MrElendig: I mean, I remember there was that mess of "+" vs "-" discs, but these days ...
14:18 < pingfloyd> what a racket
14:18 < MrElendig> they were one of the first makers of dvd+rw drives
14:18 < MrElendig> was also pirated a hell of a lot, since their drive cost 1000€ when it came out :p
14:19 < pingfloyd> you mean those coaster compartments?
14:19 < candidat> plextor when they first came out were about 3000€
14:19 < pingfloyd> so glad optical media is far in the rear view mirror
14:20 < candidat> glad to have SSD now
14:20 < MrElendig> dwd+rw is still handy for long term backup
14:20 < djph> ^
14:20 < MrElendig> 50-200 year life depending on the disk used
14:20 < MrElendig> and fairly cheap per gb
14:20 < djph> although, I use +R for the important stuff.
14:21 < MrElendig> rw actually generally have longer shelf life
14:21 < pingfloyd> I wouldn't use them for that.  They have the problem of the inks fading.
14:21 < djph> yeah, but I'm re-burning the "important" stuff annually
14:21 < MrElendig> though for most use cases anything over 10 years is good enough
14:22 < BCMM> the ink is light-sensitive. quality discs stored in a light-proof box have a good shelf life
14:22 < BCMM> but don't ask me how to tell which ones are good-quality
14:22 < pingfloyd> mechanical HDs are filling personal backup great now
14:22 < pingfloyd> they're cheap, fast, and have lots of capacity
14:22 < pingfloyd> for super important stuff, I think you probably still want to use tape
14:23 < djph> I have HDs for most of it, then optical for the "this is important" to hand off to parents.  I *WANT* to move to tape, but don't have the $2k to invest in it yet :(
14:23 < MrElendig> humidity is another issue
14:23 < MrElendig> mold is a real cd/dvd killer
14:23 < pingfloyd> djph: tape is more practical at the enterprise level
14:24 < pingfloyd> djph: for personal it's hard to beat an external HDD
14:24 < MrElendig> (also some cheap plates will wick moisture between the layers
14:24 < djph> pingfloyd: yeah, I already have those - I'd just rather move to tapes so I can treat more stuff as "really important"
14:25 < pingfloyd> also light exposure
14:26 < djph> I mean, I'm only on ... uh, 5(?) DVDs right now ... but y'know, pictures aren't gonna stop happening
14:27 < fendur> with that little, why not just make a few copies and place them in various locations?
14:29 < pingfloyd> and make a treasure map
14:30 < fendur> heh. well I didn't mean hide them!
14:31 < fendur> one at work, one at siblings house, one in yuor own house. something like that.
14:32 < MrElendig> put everything on a ftp with admin:admin and let the world mirror it
14:32 < MrElendig> free backup!
14:32 < fendur> that only works if it's porn
14:32 < TheDcoder> lol
14:32 < pingfloyd> even then it fails sometimes
14:33 < fendur> yeah people are all selective about what they backup for you
14:33 < donald> when I lauch eclipse and check top, a java command takes more than 300% of the cpu. how to diagnostic this error?
14:33 < pingfloyd> just your raunchiest porn is safe
14:33 < fendur> "waa waa I don't like mature porn!"
14:34 < cutesona> -bash: cmake: command not found  <—— what’s wrong?
14:34 < MrElendig> cutesona: you not installing cmake
14:34 < cutesona> how can i install it?
14:34 < MrElendig> obvious error is obvious
14:34 < MrElendig> use your package manager
14:34 < cutesona> how?
14:34 < MrElendig> man apt/dnf/whatever
14:35 < cutesona> apt-get install cmake?
14:35 < MrElendig> sure
14:35 < MrElendig> you should read the beginner guide for your distro
14:35 < pingfloyd> I don't know, let's ask Carnac The Magnificent
14:35 < MrElendig> also, are you sure you have to compile by hand?
14:35 < MrElendig> what are you actually trying to install?
14:35 < cutesona> cmake
14:35 < MrElendig> no
14:35 < MrElendig> what do you need cmake for?
14:36 < MrElendig> what are you trying to compile?
14:36 < pingfloyd> cutesona: what's the real problem?
14:36 < cutesona> for github MrElendig
14:36 < MrElendig> ?
14:36 < cutesona> cmake ../ -DINSTALL_UDEV_RULES=ON
14:36 < cutesona> this command is not work
14:36 < MrElendig> *what* are you trying to compile
14:36 < TheDcoder> what did you get from github
14:36 < cutesona> :(
14:36 < pingfloyd> cutesona: you're obviously missing the cmake executable
14:37 < pingfloyd> cutesona: but is it really necessary to compile what you're trying to compile
14:37 < MrElendig> also, if some gh page tells you to run sudo make install; don't
14:37 < cutesona> TheDcoder: who are you?
14:37 < pingfloyd> compile requires a bit of knowledge to do right
14:37 < TheDcoder> I am me
14:37 < pingfloyd> *compiling
14:37 < MrElendig> cutesona: he is the knight that says noo is pin bang
14:37 < TheDcoder> lol
14:38 < pingfloyd> should always see if your dist has a package for whatever you want to install first
14:38 < MrElendig> which is quite likely to be the case
14:38 < pingfloyd> at least try theirs and see if you like enough to save the trouble of recompiling
14:39 < ][_R_][> cutesona: what is the output of: git config remote.origin.url
14:39 < TheDcoder> sneaky
14:41 < MrElendig> most of the search results for that cmake string are from rtlsdr
14:43 < TheDcoder> cutesona is on Mac OS X it seems... according to their VERSION ctcp reply
14:45 < trsa> do people ever discuss BSD in here?
14:45 < ][_R_][> Not really
14:46 < pingfloyd> people still use BSD?
14:46 < trsa> just wondering
14:46 < MrElendig> trsa: someone did once, but after seeing the horror that befell them no one else have tried since
14:46 < trsa> i read an article about bsd dying
14:46 < MrElendig> took almost two weeks to get the smell out of the channel
14:46 < pingfloyd> trsa: it's still alive among its cut
14:47 < pingfloyd> *cult
14:47 < TheDcoder> are talking about BSD the license? :P
14:47 < MrElendig> bsd has its uses, but they are falling behind fast
14:47 < pingfloyd> BSD kind of just gets recycled into proprietary OSes these days it seems
14:48 < MrElendig> eg obsd didn't get uefi support until last month
14:48 < pingfloyd> wow
14:48 < pingfloyd> that's pretty crazy slow
14:48 < MrElendig> er.. s/o/n/
14:49 < TheDcoder> well you can't turn GPL software into propitiatory
14:49 < TheDcoder> proprietary
14:50 < MrElendig> also https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NetBSD-8.0-RC1-Released
14:50 < pingfloyd> I think what it really comes down to is that Linux attracts more of the new young blood
14:50 < MrElendig> that took some time...
14:50 < pingfloyd> so becomes a larger community over time with more development going on and better ecosystem.
14:50 < MrElendig> but then again who needs usb 3
14:50 < MrElendig> TheDcoder: you can if you own the copyright
14:51 < MrElendig> otherwise no
14:51 < TheDcoder> yes, that is correct, forgot about that
14:51 < pingfloyd> but you can't take the gpl version away
14:51 < TheDcoder> ...theoretically anyway
14:51 < pingfloyd> which is what matter there the most
14:51 < TheDcoder> delete all copies
14:51  * shan decides to throwbsd in a vm
14:51 < pingfloyd> *matters
14:52 < pingfloyd> I think out of the BSDs I tried in the past, OpenBSD had the best installer
14:52 < donald> when I lauch eclipse and check top, a java command takes more than 300% of the cpu. how to diagnostic this error?
14:53 < djph> donald: it's java. 'nuff said.
14:53 < pingfloyd> how many cores do you have?
14:53 < shan> shit i downloaded openbsd
14:53 < shan> freebsd*
14:53 < pingfloyd> freebsd has more software supported
14:54 < pingfloyd> but openbsd has much better security
14:54 < shan> so which do i get ?!?!?
14:54 < pingfloyd> which one matters more to you?
14:54 < pingfloyd> probably freebsd
14:54 < pingfloyd> since it is in a vm
14:54 < TheDcoder> freebasd since you are putting it ina jail
14:54 < TheDcoder> snap
14:55 < pingfloyd> you're probably going to care more about larger library
14:55 < TheDcoder> which distro has the largest library?
14:56 < TheDcoder> a distro's official repositories I mean
14:56 < pingfloyd> https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01
14:56 < TheDcoder> maybe arch... because i have seen so many packages
14:56 < gothaggis> hello - having an issue with NFS (or maybe its working as intended??) - both client and server are centos 7.  Both client and server have the same exact users + groups.  i've exported a directory and shared it, works fine.  the issue is, if I am on the server and change ownership, those permissions aren't updated on the client unless i remount the share.  is there anyway for those permissions
14:56 < gothaggis> to be updated in real time?
14:57 < pingfloyd> I'm not so sure if that page is so relevant these days
14:58 < djph> I *think* that's how it's supposed to work - the client won't update things "immediately" (I think maybe re-running exportfs will kick it... )
15:10 < eraserpencil> am I connected?
15:10 < pingfloyd> no
15:10 < eraserpencil> awesome
15:10 < jken> Hello, can anyone tell me if it is possible to configure the initial mouse pointer position when X starts? I am currently doing it via xdotool in .xinitrc, but am
15:10 < jken> trying to move it out of the way even earlier if possible.
15:11 < pingfloyd> you've got mail!
15:11 < eraserpencil> so I was trying to change from lighted to sddm. And when I rebooted my macbook, I was met with a dark dark screen. No CLI, no Gui, holding option shows only my Mac partition. It's like the entire linux partition disappeared
15:13 < cutesona> (gpartedbin:3662): IBUS-WARNING **: The owner of /home/cutesona/.config/ibus/bus is not root. <— what it means?
15:14 < pingfloyd> sounds like you changed a lot more than the DM there
15:14 < eraserpencil> I'm on macOS now and using the distil shows one disk and two partitions, one linux, one mac
15:14 < shan> ooh
15:14 < pingfloyd> cutesona: something to ignore
15:14 < shan> redshift is getting darker
15:14 < cutesona> pingfloyd: thanks :)
15:14 < pingfloyd> np
15:15 < eraserpencil> definitely, I didn't really look through the logs on what packages were removed
15:15 < donald> pingfloyd  the core for me?
15:15 < pingfloyd> all that output when you launch from terminal you can ignore usually
15:15 < pingfloyd> when you run gtk+ apps
15:15 < eraserpencil> I'm preparing a live usb but do you know how I might be able to troubleshoot from the live usb
15:15 < donald> djph: I reinstall java?
15:16 < pingfloyd> donald: what?
15:21 < eraserpencil> any aid?
15:22 < ][_R_][> Try ##MacOS
15:23 < eraserpencil> they aren't linux friendly
15:23 < eraserpencil> trying to troubleshoot my linux with a live ubuntu usb
15:24 < ][_R_][> Oh
15:25 < eraserpencil> I feel I am missing a display manager or a desktop environment.. whichever is lower level
15:25 < ananke> eraserpencil: but you just said that 'I'm on macOS now'
15:25 < eraserpencil> cause I don't even have a login screen
15:26 < eraserpencil> I'm talking to you now on macOS cause thats the only thing working so far... I am preparing a live usb to help troubleshoot my linux partition
15:26 < ananke> eraserpencil: google for 'boot <your distro> to command line'
15:27 < eraserpencil> ok
15:27 < eraserpencil> I'll be back
15:27 < triceratux> eraserpencil: why not install an image of gnu/linux/x11 that already has the loginmanager & desktop environment youre comfortable with instead of trying to hack package replacements on hostile hardware ?
15:28 < jim> eraserpencil, maybe your window manager crashed
15:28 < eraserpencil> it's just learning things with linux right? learning what display managers are... trying things out...
15:28 < eraserpencil> but I'll be back
15:29 < triceratux> "start with something you know works"
15:29 < triceratux> oops
15:30 < joekeilty> Is there an equivalent for 'apk add —virtual <packages>' for apt/apt-get ?
15:32 < ][_R_][> eraserpencil: A DM is just the login-screen that will start your X session, a DE is a WM, Panel and other junk to make a complete UI environment.
15:35 < jim> what's this apk thing/
15:35 < jim> ?
15:35 < ][_R_][> Android Dev Kit
15:35 < jim> what does that do?
15:36 < jim> meaning what does 'apk add —virtual <packages>' do?
15:37 < jim> you're looking for an equivalent, ok... but I (for one) don't know that that does :)
15:37 < joekeilty> apk is a package manager used by Alpine Linux, like apt-get
15:38 < jim> ok, so what specifically does 'apk add —virtual <packages>' do?
15:38 < joekeilty> apk add —virtual <packages> lets you add a list of packages into a group, then you can easily uninstall all those packages by uninstalling the group
15:38 < revel> jim: apk is Alpine's package manager.
15:38 < revel> Or, alternatively, an Android package file.
15:38 < joekeilty> Commonly used in Docker for adding all build-dependencies into a group and then deleting your build dependencies after build, so your container is lightweight
15:39 < jim> ok, I think I understand... and no, I don't think that apt has that... but what it does have, is virtual packages, which are packages which, otherwise empty, depend on a bunch of other packages
15:41 < jim> apt also has build dependencies... you can run: apt-get build-dep somePackage and it will install all the programs and libraries listed to build that package
15:41 < joekeilty> Ah, can I create those on the fly or are they actually legit packages that have been published?
15:41 < joekeilty> the virtual packages that is
15:41 < jim> they are legit and published packages, and I dunno if you can make more of them yourself
15:42 < joekeilty> Cheers Jim :)
15:44 < jim> I think what's required, is that (1) you make the package to depend on whatever... then you need to put it on an aptable archive, and finally, to add that archive to your /etc/apt/sources.list
15:44 < TheDcoder> I have up and created an ext4 partition
15:44 < jim> said package will have a name, which you can then apt-get install thatPackageName
15:45 < jim> TheDcoder, ok, what do you want to use it for?
15:46 < revel> Storing pr0n.
15:46 < jim> I like jumbo pr0ns
15:47 < revel> Well... To each their own.
15:47 < TheDcoder> I dropped a word, "I have given up and created an ext4 partition". A while earlier I was struggling with permissions inside an NTFS partition
15:48 < TheDcoder> so yes... in the end I got fed up and created an ext4 partition so I could do permissions without messing with mount
15:48 < triceratux> TheDcoder: yep if youre going to be running linux you want to start with a linux filesystem
15:49 < revel> I think you can only do permissions somuch as "every single file and directory in this mount has the same permissions" if it's a filesystem without native UNIX permissions support.
15:49 < TheDcoder> The curse of dual booting and having to deal with Windows :(
15:49 < TheDcoder> Yes that is correct
15:49 < TheDcoder> Only if people actually developed software and games for Linux... sigh
15:50 < eraserpencil> CTRL+ALT+F1 does not allow me to boot to tty1
15:50 < lowin> I want to create a special user in my system that allows someone to login via ssh and setup port forwarding. but I don't want them to be able to run any command. is there a way to achieve this?
15:50 < TheDcoder> hmmm... mess with the shell
15:51 < donald> when I lauch eclipse and check the cpu with the command  top, then a java command takes more than 300% of the cpu. how to diagnostic this error?
15:51 < lowin> I thought about changing the default login shell, but setting it to anything other than a form of shell closes the ssh connection instantly upon login
15:51 < RevanOne> so guys, why am I getting this ? [/etc/systemd/system/logstash.service:8] Unknown lvalue 'MemoryHigh' in section 'Service'
15:51 < RevanOne> ubuntu 16.04, kernel 4.14
15:51 < treehug88> lowin look at /etc/shells, it lists shells you're allowed to use (from memory)
15:51 < RevanOne> MemoryHigh=256M
15:52 < jim> TheDcoder, hmm, that sounds to me like... 1, you're not running linux now (hmm, could be wrong here), and you;'re not seeing a value for you to be doing so... do I have this right?
15:53 < Siecje> How do you restart a process but keep the connections open?
15:53 < TheDcoder> Not really. I am runnning Linux and I would like to continue using Linux
15:53 < lowin> treehug88, I added /bin/echo to /etc/shells but still the connection closes upon login
15:53 < treehug88> well, /bin/echo isn't much of a shell
15:53 < TheDcoder> My workstation has Windows and I have some files that I want to be able to access on both OSes
15:54 < TheDcoder> so I was using a single big NTFS partition for storange
15:54 < lowin> treehug88, Yeah I don't want the user to log into a shell. that's the thing
15:54 < TheDcoder> that didn't work very now
15:54 < jim> RevanOne, hmm, are you the one who was asking about that a few days ago?
15:54 < TheDcoder> now I learnt my less and have done a separate partition for linux only stuff
15:54 < treehug88> lowin  you want /sbin/nologin I think
15:54 < dome_539>  /help
15:55 < jim> TheDcoder, I see, so that was wrong and you are running linux?
15:56 < lowin> treehug88, Tried that. it spits out "This account is disabled" and closes the connection
15:56 < lowin> my bad it says account is not available
15:56 < treehug88> I'm unclear on your goal. You want _only_ port forwarding and no logins?
15:57 < lowin> Yes
15:57 < treehug88> how about you set up port forwarding for them and use ssh -N to disallow 'remote commands'
15:59 < jim> what is opendkim?
15:59 < lowin> Well that's just a client side thing, I want the server to be safe from command executions if the user/pass gets out.
16:00 < ][_R_][> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSSH/Cookbook/Public_Key_Authentication#Single-purpose_Keys
16:00 < treehug88> lowin people do this, google around. I found this, not sure if it's effective: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8021/allow-user-to-set-up-an-ssh-tunnel-but-nothing-else
16:01 < treehug88> oh, what _R_ said
16:01 < ][_R_][> Your link is more direct :p
16:01 < treehug88> alright! teamwork++
16:01 < lowin> treehug88, Alright thank you.
16:01 < treehug88> yw
16:02 < lowin> ][_R_][, Thank you too.
16:11 < RevanOne> yes
16:12 < RevanOne> I haven't figured it out, at some point I was not seeing those errors or missing them
16:12 < drzacek> Hello there
16:12 < RevanOne> the problem is on ubuntu 16.04 programs are taking all my memory and killing the server in the process
16:12 < RevanOne> I tried to limit using that option in systemd service
16:13 < drzacek> I'm wondering, what realistic latency values are expected on a linux with rt patch? I just build my first rt kernel, I do see a difference but not really impressed
16:15 < BCMM> drzacek: reduction in average latency is not the point. the point is that latency gets *more predictable*
16:15 < BCMM> i.e. maximum latency is capped
16:15 < RevanOne> I did not have this problem on Ubuntu 14.04, if a program was about to take all the memory it would just get killed by OOM killer
16:15 < RevanOne> but on 16.04 it allows the program to take all memory and crash the server
16:15 < drzacek> BCMM, yeah, it's about MAX latency
16:16 < triceratux> RevanOne: looks like theres a number of systemd tuning options which are alternatives to MemoryHigh https://schnouki.net/posts/2013/12/19/resource-control-with-systemd/
16:17 < drzacek> Tried the rt patch on two systems, the results are kind of similar, after 30 minut cyclictests I get max latency ~280us, which is way too much. I saw some people having them usually within 50us
16:17 < mad_hatter> So I've checked out a remote branch and done a git pull to get the latest commits to that branch, and it produced merge conflicts. now i cant switch back to master. Not sure how I fix this. Any suggestions?
16:18 < ][_R_][> mad_hatter: you have to resolve the merge conflicts, it should list the files you need to edit, the bits you have to manually merge are very clearly marked.
16:18 < BCMM> drzacek: hmmm... have you tried #linux-rt ?
16:18 < BCMM> (on oftc)
16:19 < RevanOne> triceratux: thx, I will look into it. Last time I checked they were saying MemoryLimit is deprecated in favor or MemoryHigh
16:19 < drzacek> BCMM, nope, gonna check it out
16:22 < mad_hatter> ][_R_][: do i need to delete the part between <<<<<<< and >>>>>>>
16:22 < ][_R_][> You need to read the sections and manually merge the differences
16:22 < ][_R_][> IE: you have to think.
16:25 < BluesKaj> [l
16:25 < jack_rip_vim> hi BluesKaj
16:25 < BluesKaj> oops
16:25 < BluesKaj> hi jack_rip_vim
16:25 < jack_rip_vim> what is [l?
16:26 < BluesKaj> typo
16:27 < plain-user> anyone feels like solving encryption puzzle? ( i am doing one and got stuck)
16:27 < RevanOne> triceratux: seems MemoryLimit works but it straight out kills the process .
16:29 < jack_rip_vim> BluesKaj: typo?
16:29 < triceratux> RevanOne: so do you want the keyword that works but cant be used or the keyword that can be used but doesnt work ?
16:30 < BluesKaj> jack_rip_vim, typo = a typing mistake
16:30 < triceratux> RevanOne: sounds very systemd specific. you may want to talk to #systemd http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/details.php?room=%23systemd&net=freenode
16:31 < jack_rip_vim> BluesKaj: lol
16:32 < RevanOne> triceratux: I was hoping to work more like it did on ubuntu 14.04 but I guess much have changed
16:33 < RevanOne> thx for the command and links , will investigate
16:33 < backnforth> How do I remember how to add to the Linux path?
16:33 < BluesKaj> jack_rip_vim, it's in the Webster's English Dictionary: Define typo: an error (as of spelling) in typed or typeset material — typo in a sentence.
16:33 < zerowaitstate> has anyone had issues on CentOS with NetworkManager not being restarted by systemd after a yum upgrade?
16:34 < mawk> hi
16:35 < jack_rip_vim> BluesKaj: oh, i see
16:35 < mawk> I lost my oldest server, some known motherboard problem
16:35 < mawk> but now I can't get my data back because they would have to shutdown servers for the whole rack to take the hard drive
16:35 < mawk> and for some reason they don't want to do that
16:35 < mawk> I lost 6 years of IRC logs :(
16:35 < shan> ok bye
16:37 < TheDcoder> jim: I have been struggling with permission issues with qemu by storing my images in a NTFS partition. All resolved now thanks to my new ext4 partition
16:43 < cutesona> how can i unzip xz file?
16:44 < TheDcoder> man tar
16:44 < ananke> cutesona: unxz, xz --decompress
16:45 < cutesona> unxz file name?
16:45 < mawk> yes
16:45 < ananke> cutesona: yes, but you should look at the manual at this point
16:45 < cutesona> thank ananke  :)
16:45 < backnforth> how do I add to the path?
16:46 < mawk> export PATH=newdir:$PATH
16:47 < mawk> if you do it from a script you can add checks to verify if newdir isn't already in the path
16:47 < mawk> something like [[ $PATH =~ (^|:)newdir(:|$) ]] || export PATH=newdir:$PATH
16:50 < revel> I personally prefer appending to PATH.
16:52 < ][_R_][> Depends IMO.  ~/bin should really be prepended
16:52 < ][_R_][> Also if it's something where you're using a newer-than-system version
16:57 < robstr> Hy, i struggle with a systemd script containing `mountpoint -q bla` few lines later i want to check `$?` and based on success/failure do stuff. But it is failing after executing the `mountpoint` line, even if i write `exit 0`
16:58 < TheDcoder> Thanks for all the help guys, I have work to do so I will take my leave
16:58 < mawk> you mean in a shell script called by a systemd service robstr ?
17:00 < robstr> mawk: yea here is the complete one , https://paste.linux.community/view/68f92a59
17:00 < mawk> you're using bash -e
17:00 < mawk> ah, it's a nix script
17:00 < mawk> ah, no sorry
17:01 < mawk> so yeah drop the -e or add || true after the failing command
17:01 < mawk> but that won't save the $? for you
17:02 < robstr> mawk: I think it is not possible to drop the -e, this is added by nixos, i just entered everything else... Is  it possible to get the return type without the script get failing ?
17:02 < robstr> mawk: s/type/value
17:02 < mawk> then disable -e around the call maybe
17:02 < mawk> set +e; mountpoint -q s3/; ret=$?; set -e
17:03 < mawk> or you use an if
17:03 < ][_R_][> Or do: if mountpoint -q s3/; then
17:04 < mawk> if ! mountpoint -q s3/; then stuff; else stuff; fi
17:04 < robstr> mawk: ][_R_][  let me check
17:07 < plain-user> how can one add text to pad words in a file to line up to certains size? for example, i have a file that has entries line by line. line1 = abcde, line2=adh2hkffhks, line3=cat, and so on. i need to pad all of that text with characters so that each line is 16 characters long.
17:09 < ][_R_][> plain-user: can you guarantee that all lines are less than or equal to 16 characters in length?
17:09 < plain-user> no, but i guess i could first somehow cut them too...
17:10 < plain-user> i actually do not need lines longer than 16 characters there
17:10 < ][_R_][> Okay
17:10 < ][_R_][> $ seq 9 | while read line; do printf '% 16s\n' "${line}"; done
17:10 < ][_R_][> The seq 9 is just my demo input
17:12 < ][_R_][> An `egrep -o '^.{,16}$'` will filter out all the lines longer than 16 characters
17:13 < ][_R_][> If your file is named "input", then a complete run would be: egrep -o '^.{,16}$' input | while read line; do printf '% 16s\n' "${line}"; done
17:13 < robstr> mawk: ][_R_][  worked for me, ty really much :+1
17:14 < ][_R_][> np
17:14 < plain-user> ][_R_][: Thank you very much, this is smart line, it does work the padding!
17:15 < cutesona> how i can know my disk space?
17:16 < ][_R_][> cutesona: df
17:17 < cutesona> thanks ][_R_][ :)
17:20 < plain-user> ][_R_][: great help, that made me progress further. but may i ask please how to make it padd from the other side? not before the words but after?
17:22 < JimBuntu> plain-user, you could "rev" the line before and after
17:26 < plain-user> got it... used -16 and it placed them at the end!!! thank you people!
17:27 < ][_R_][> plain-user: \o/ GJ
17:41 < JonelethIrenicus> anyone had an issue where nothing shows up when VNC-ing to a VM
17:43 < pankaj> Why does it takes too much delay for shell to return when at login I type the password incorrect. Is their any faster way.
17:43 < jml2> JonelethIrenicus, vbox application offers vnc'ing to guest displays...
17:44 < jml2> JonelethIrenicus, it is either vnc server inside a VM or vnc setup from the Vbox native host
17:44 < jml2> JonelethIrenicus, (which one?)
17:44 < JonelethIrenicus> jml2: running realvnc inside the vm
17:44 < uplime> pankaj: i would imagine thats dependent on your login manager/os
17:45 < jml2> JonelethIrenicus, are you able to connect to the vm network with other things?
17:45 < kurahaupo_> pankaj: that's the login program, not the shell
17:45 < JonelethIrenicus> jml2: haven't tried that was just the easiest
17:45 < kurahaupo_> pankaj: it's intentional, to prevent someone else brute-forcing your password
17:46 < jml2> pankaj, there is a faster way
17:46 < jml2> pankaj, type the correct password in the first place :)
17:47 < jml2> lol
17:47 < uplime> pankaj: have you tried typing your password correctly?
17:47 < jml2> uplime, nice
17:50 < za1b1tsu_> is there a sweet spot distro between ubuntu and arch regarding package updates? I don't need the bleeding edge, but with the previous ubuntu everything that I need was ruby, nodejs, qt, etc?
17:50 < rocktop> how can I know wich package install this /lib64/libcurl.so.4 in centos
17:50 < za1b1tsu_> * was old
17:50 < jml2> rocktop, rpm -qf /pathto/
17:51 < jml2> ( https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman/Rosetta )
17:51 < rocktop> jml2, Thanks
17:51 < acresearch> hello people, i want to live stream myself setting up a server to run my comupational intensive scripts on it. other than keeping the password hidden, what else should i not show?
17:51 < jml2> rocktop, archwiki has that nice rosetta outline for equivalent dpkg and other common queries for rpm
17:52 < jml2> acresearch, your genitalia
17:52 < jml2> acresearch, that will get you bannedon youtube
17:52 < triceratux> za1b1tsu_: im pretty happy with swagarch. cant distinguish it from xubuntu except that it pushes out updated monthlies https://swagarch.github.io/
17:52 < acresearch> jml2: hahahaha
17:53 < dgurney> za1b1tsu_, Fedora is worth trying
17:53 < triceratux> za1b1tsu_: what dgurney said. fedora 28 is quite solid & current
17:55 < ananke> acresearch: anything you deem sensitive or personally identifiable
17:56 < acresearch> ananke: such as? i don't know what constitutes sensitive information?  i mean would the SSH IP be sensitive?  (obviously the password)   is my email sensitive (other than risking being spammed)    educate me
17:57 < dgurney> SSH IP isn't that sensitive if it can't be accessed from outside
17:57 < ananke> acresearch: we can't answer that for you
17:57 < ananke> acresearch: 'anything _you_ deem sensitive'
17:57 < dgurney> email? well, that's up to you really
17:57 < jml2> acresearch, i've seen morons actually posting passwords on their public ip's on youtube (they show the original fulltext copy/paste) --- yep... really dumb dumb dumb
17:58 < acresearch> jml2: well, yeh that is dumb, keeping a password safe is a no brainer,
17:58 < jml2> acresearch, trolls ... make your email a captcha
17:59 < acresearch> jml2: ananke what i deem sensitive is anything that will allow hacking my computer or server
17:59 < dgurney> so don't show that information then
17:59 < jml2> acresearch, it's easy to blur sections of a video with any editor (kdenlive, openshot, ...)
17:59 < acresearch> jml2: ananke now i am not worried about losing sensitive or important information because my computer has none
18:00 < acresearch> jml2: no need for bluring, just knowing what i should keep away from the stream i will be able to navigate around it
18:00 < acresearch> jml2: ananke but i don't want someone else accessing my server or computer and causing harm to others from them etc...
18:00 < ananke> acresearch: then don't post addresses
18:01 < acresearch> ananke: you mean emails or IPs?
18:01 < dgurney> don't show any publically accessible IPs, any personal information you don't want to be public, that's it really
18:01 < ananke> acresearch: any of it
18:01 < acresearch> dgurney: ananke i see ok
18:02 < acresearch> not just to get a better understanding, public IPs are protected with an SSH password right? so how can someone use a pubilc IP without knowing the password for SSH?
18:02 < dgurney> they can start bruteforcing
18:03 < acresearch> dgurney: oh
18:03 < ananke> acresearch: it's not that hard. you want to limit possibility of something happening? then don't post any information that can lead people to your system
18:03 < jml2> acresearch, showing a public ip on social media is implying bad advice to others --- users will not take your video serious enough --- may even take it that you're trying to exhibit a honey pot :))
18:03 < jml2> acresearch, do you know what a honey pot is?
18:03 < dgurney> you should really be using keys instead of passwords anyway
18:03 < jml2> acresearch, in a way it will make your video look bad
18:03 < acresearch> dgurney: but they won't be successful if my password is strong right? i mean over 8 charachter with symbols etc...
18:03 < ananke> acresearch: not only they'll have your IP, but also your username from your videos
18:03 < jml2> acresearch, so better is to hide your public ip, and discourage bad advice imho
18:03 < acresearch> jml2: yeh, i think i know what a honey pot is, like a trap right?
18:04 < jml2> acresearch, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)
18:04 < acresearch> i see
18:05 < triceratux> acresearch: even if their bruteforcing is unsuccessful, the very attempt contributes unnecessarily to climate change. you dont want to encourage that
18:07 < acresearch> triceratux: ok i understand
18:07 < acresearch> but once i connect (not showing public IP - password - personal information in general) it is ok to show what i so inside the server right?
18:08 < dgurney> yes
18:08 < acresearch> ok good :-)
18:08 < ananke> acresearch: again, we can't give you a simple yes/no answer to that
18:09 < lavamind> hello, I'm thinking on using an ext4 external journal with journal_async_commit to speed up writes to a large rotational raid10 md array, using an nvme device to store the journal, is that a crazy idea?
18:09 < acresearch> ananke: i know, but discussing it will give me insight
18:09 < jml2> lavamind, well its supported by ext4, so why should it be crazy?
18:10 < jml2> lavamind, ideally the journal should also be going on a raid ...
18:10 < lavamind> jml2: yes I've got 2 nvme devices
18:10 < lavamind> jml2: I'm not sure really, maybe the performance tradeoff isnt so good compared to the added complexity?
18:11 < jml2> lavamind, maybe you'd like to see phoronix.com -- they have interesting benchmarks with ssd+hdd setups raid, btrfs, etc..
18:11 < jml2> lavamind, if your server is mostly doing reading, then there's no benefit to using an external journal
18:12 < lavamind> it's also not clear to me how it actually works, should I be using journal_async_commit with data=journal ?
18:12 < lavamind> jml2: nah, lots of little writes too, this volume will host a couple dozen VM images
18:13 < lavamind> to speed up the reads I'm also considering an lvm cache pool
18:13 < lavamind> on the same nvme-backed raid1 md
18:14 < lavamind> say, 16GB for the journal and the rest for lvm cache (dm-cache)
18:14 < lavamind> they're 400GB devices
18:14 < jim> does raid1 give you better performance or just more storage?
18:15 < lavamind> jim: raid1 gives you neither, it's to guard against one device failing
18:15 < dgurney> IIRC raid1 is just a asic mirror
18:15 < dgurney> *basic
18:15 < jim> you may wish to go with raid5 or 10
18:15 < dgurney> raid0 gives more performance and storage, but with the caveat that if one device fails, you lose everything
18:16 < lavamind> for a cache device you really want raid1, not anything else
18:16 < jim> (raid5 is not good for things that require lots of random access, such as databases)
18:17 < cutesona> i can connect GUI instead of ssh?
18:18 < jim> you can use ssh to connect with gui (using xdmcp)
18:18 < lavamind> jml2: unfortunately phoronix doesn't seem to have data on ext4+journal_async_commit
18:19 < cutesona> jim: can you give me link?
18:19 < cutesona> i have no idea
18:19 < lavamind> cutesona: you can also use VNC, which is probably easier to set up than xdmcp
18:19 < lavamind> cutesona: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-vnc-server-on-debian-8
18:19 < cutesona> vnc
18:20 < cutesona> thaks lavamind :) i installed linux but there is no Desktop, Download, Documents.....
18:20 < cutesona> what’s wrong?
18:20 < dgurney> dunno, just create them
18:20 < lavamind> cutesona: what distribution did you install
18:20 < jim> well first look at man X, to understand how X is "client/server"
18:21 < cutesona> kali + raspberry pi lavamind
18:21 < lavamind> cutesona: ask in #kali-linux
18:21 < jim> kali is special-purposed, you might want to use something like debian instead
18:21 < cutesona> lavamind: but No one answer to me :(
18:22 < lavamind> cutesona: why did you choose kali linux
18:22 < cutesona> lavamind: for doing ethical hacker
18:22 < cutesona> 8)
18:22 < MrElendig> cutesona: that is one reason for not using kali
18:22 < MrElendig> no support
18:22 < cutesona> :(
18:23 < lavamind> cutesona: if you're discovering Linux, I would suggest https://www.raspbian.org/
18:23 < cutesona> this is linux channel that include kali or debian or something
18:23 < lavamind> once you get the handle on that system maybe checkout kali
18:23 < jim> that or debian are good choices
18:24 < lavamind> cutesona: a lot of the tools that are found on Kali are available in Debian anyway
18:24 < dgurney> and most other distros as well
18:25 < jim> cutesona, yes, exceot we know that kali isn't set up like a normal linux dist
18:25 < lavamind> right
18:25 < cutesona> lavamind: i installed linux but there is no Desktop, Download, Documents..... then?
18:25 < dgurney> like I said, in that case you create them
18:25 < cutesona> how? dgurney  ?
18:25 < lavamind> cutesona: this has Desktop, Download, Documents, install that >>> https://www.raspbian.org/
18:25 < dgurney> just make the folders?
18:25 < cutesona> if i install vnc server, then it make folder automatically?
18:26 < dgurney> it won't
18:26 < jml2> cutesona, you should check out virtualbox.org -- it lets you practice advanced things in a virtual box
18:26 < lavamind> cutesona: you're using the wrong distribution
18:26 < jml2> cutesona, without destroying your current system
18:26 < cutesona> :(
18:26 < cutesona> thanks jml2
18:26 < cutesona> but i use raspberry now
18:27  * jml2 tries sudo apt-get install xubuntu-core^  - from ubuntu mini installation
18:27 < lavamind> jml2: might not run very well on a raspeberry pi
18:27 < jim> cutesona, Downloads, Documents, etc etc, are just directories, you could create them using mkdir
18:27 < jml2> xubuntu-core hmmm gotta check this
18:27 < jml2> nice minimalists iso of 65 megs...
18:27 < jim> and you could write a script that creates them'
18:28 < cutesona> :(
18:28 < cutesona> thanks
18:28 < cutesona> bye
18:28 < aptgetrekt> cutesona, try running "xdg-user-dirs-update" in the terminal
18:28 < cutesona> try?
18:28 < cutesona> :(
18:28 < aptgetrekt> I dont know what packages you have installed
18:28 < cutesona> i m afraid to install kali again to raspberry pi
18:28 < triceratux> MrElendig: the swagarch folks have a "known problem" report which implicates their --populate at installtime https://plus.google.com/111931943332353289862/posts/KFUdXPmmTro https://swagarch.github.io/ im just a n00b but it sure looks to me like their servers are sporadically available at best
18:29 < aptgetrekt> cutesona, I don't think anyone here really knows what you are asking or what you are trying to do
18:29 < cutesona> oh
18:29 < jim> I think, you need to learn the basics, before you can do advanced hacker stuff... also, you need to be extremely careful where you point that stuff... you could end up in a LOT of trouble
18:29 < cutesona> ok i will find it at google
18:30 < cutesona> :(
18:30 < jml2> cutesona, Mr Robot has been using Linux for many years, he's not a noob
18:31 < jml2> cutesona, kali is not for new users
18:31 < cutesona> :(
18:31 < cutesona> jml2: ok
18:31 < jml2> its true (it says so on the the kali website)
18:31 < candidat> i love linux so much
18:31 < jim> cool
18:32 < candidat> i want to make an AI that can handle a conversation
18:32 < jim> cutesona, really,,, you should learn the basics of -using- linux
18:32 < cutesona> ok
18:32 < cutesona> i will do it
18:32 < cutesona> :)
18:32 < jim> if you want to learn faster, there are schools
18:33 < candidat> or there is openclassroom
18:33 < cutesona> where?
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Schools don't make you learn, let alone learn fastest.
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Faster even
18:34 < Armand> Schools are only there to produce effective factory workers
18:34 < Psi-Jack> Beware the marching hammers. Grins
18:35 < jim> keep your kali around, but keep it on the shelf, I don't know you at all, but I think you're not ready for the advanced stuff yet
18:35 < Armand> The wall!! The wall.... !
18:35 < pankaj> uplime: Sorry, for late response. But I am not speaking about a specific login or display manager. I am talking about the time it take every time I switch user. What is the reason that for correct password it takes no time but for false on it takes so long?
18:35  * Armand pokes Psi-Jack with a Pink Floyd album
18:35 < Psi-Jack> Egggselent.
18:35 < Armand> ^_^
18:35 < Psi-Jack> You got the reference.
18:36 < uplime> pankaj: that was already explained to you
18:36 < jim> yeah. that was Pink Floyd's disco album
18:36 < Armand> "We don't need no education!"
18:36 < Armand> I beg to differ.. that's a double-negative.
18:37 < ||JD||> 70s called, they want their music back
18:37 < Armand> NO! It's mine!
18:37 < ][_R_][> That song got banned in Africa because kids started chanting the chorus as a protest
18:37 < Psi-Jack> Absolutely not
18:37 < jml2> this is nice -- mate minimal is available as an tasksel option from a minimal ubuntu installation (using the 65 meg minimalist iso)
18:37 < jim> cutesona, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO0jzD1hpXc
18:37 < jml2> ( https://imgur.com/a/uPjEofD )
18:38 < jim> maybe start with that
18:38 < jml2> triceratux, -> https://imgur.com/a/uPjEofD
18:38 < jml2> triceratux, -> check out that list pretty sweet
18:38 < cutesona> thanks jim
18:38 < jim> can you watch youtube?
18:38 < jml2> there's a xubuntu minimal installation later on in the list..
18:39 < jml2> interesting --- the ubuntu folks imho are getting it right
18:39 < jim> cutesona, it's very basic and very gentle
18:39 < cutesona> yeah thanks :)
18:40 < cutesona> windows vs linux, which is more powerful?
18:40 < jim> maybe this too: https://linuxjourney.com/
18:40 < jml2> cutesona, with great power comes great responsibility, and MS does not seem to care about responsibility, so they started to adopt Linux
18:40 < triceratux> jml2: is that the canonical xubuntu-core or the unit193 xubuntu-core ? https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/index.html
18:41 < jml2> triceratux, i was reading on that page that it's not stable at the top -- not sure if that still applies but I can see xubunut-minimal available as a tasksel option here
18:41 < jim> cutesona, it is not your computer, not windows, not linux that is powerful... what do you think is left?
18:41 < uplime> the cookie
18:41 < jml2> triceratux, there's even kubuntu
18:41 < jml2> triceratux, i know you're not into heavy desktops, but this is interesting -- has mate minimal and mate standard... kewl imho
18:42 < jml2> triceratux, very kewl indeed!
18:42 < jim> cutesona, the powerful thing is you, and what you decide to do
18:42 < jml2> triceratux, and better than debian's minimal netinst ...
18:42 < jml2> triceratux, I've been using debian's netinst for years
18:42 < jml2> gotta admit.. i'm impressed!
18:42 < jml2> (netinst.iso -- minimalist iso of debian)
18:43 < triceratux> jml2: whats wrong with the original vanilla debian netinst ?
18:43 < jim> I remember when they were building it and its underlying debian-installer
18:44 < jml2> triceratux, it lacks minimalist desktops like these ... this list has more options
18:44 < triceratux> ah
18:45 < jim> cutesona, are you just starting with linux today/this week?
18:46 < cutesona> 3 years ago
18:46 < cutesona> :)
18:46 < jim> oh, so you have some experience
18:47 < jml2> triceratux, debian only cares to set a defacto desktop and offer it on its list, it was almost decided that mate would be come the defacto supported desktop -- but here it looks very official that kubuntu, mate and xubuntu are offiicially supported by Canonical's minimalist iso... and this is I think what a lot of people were asking..
18:47 < jml2> triceratux, on debian they will never do this...
18:48 < jml2> triceratux, the legacy desktops are there, but compare the lists, there's "x minimal" and then the standard desktop... and other "cloud" options...
18:48 < jml2> triceratux, great stuff
18:48 < jim> cutesona, still, kali is special-purpose, it's not a usual linux distribution
18:49 < cutesona> jim: stop plz
18:49 < cutesona> i need kali for some reason
18:50 < jim> cutesona, anyway, you're welcome to stay here if you want to, it's a good place to learn
18:50 < jml2> with the xubuntu minimal selected, the disk space used comes out just under 3 gigs...
18:50 < jml2> I can snapshot this baby anywhere
18:51 < jml2> xubuntu minimal is a clean desktop...
18:51 < cutesona> thaks jim
18:51 < jim> welcome
18:51 < jim> cutesona, another good place: ocw.mit.edu
18:51 < triceratux> jml2: you mean this thing ? has it been updated for 18.04 ? https://xubuntu.org/news/introducing-xubuntu-core/
18:51 < cutesona> thanks
18:52 < jml2> triceratux, its the same thing -- on that picture i provided the list is two pages -- there's a xubuntu minimal option --- it is essentially that apt-get command
18:52 < jim> anyway, have fun, be excellent to everyone.
18:53 < cutesona> vnc use 5901 port?
18:53 < jml2> triceratux, i was going to expect to type that, but then i saw it in the installer's tasksel list
18:54 < jml2> triceratux, the iso only 65 megs, but it will need to download 983 packages if selecting xubuntu -- turns out the install is 3 gigs on the disk drive
18:56 < triceratux> jml2: ah this thing. that could work http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
18:56 < jml2> triceratux, im trying the 'xubuntu' option (rather than xubuntu minimal) to see what is the dfifference
18:57 < pankaj> Is their any service to restart touchpad driver with systemctl?
19:08 < plain-user> i am wanting to search for a text in a file  (lots of lines) and then know which line it is.
19:09 < uplime> grep -n text file
19:09 < plain-user> oh
19:09 < plain-user> thank you
19:09 < plain-user> very late here
19:09 < uplime> np
19:13 < poopBot> how to unistall driver
19:14 < revel> rmmod
19:14 < cutesona> libusb-dev  <— when i use this?
19:19 < cutesona> sudo apt-get install rtl-sdr  <— how can i delete it?
19:19 < cutesona> help me plz
19:20 < revel> The output of `apt` is quite useful.
19:20 < cutesona> jim: and jml2 ?
19:20 < cutesona> how can i remove it?
19:21 < kekePower> cutesona: remove
19:21 < cutesona> purge?
19:21 < cutesona> kekePower: ?
19:21 < revel> No, just remove.
19:22 < cutesona> only remove?
19:22 < poopBot> yep found it
19:22 < poopBot> sorry was alt tab
19:25 < pankaj> I am using virtualbox right now and doing something important but it sucks but my touchpad has stopped working, I do not have another mouse and I need to toggle between host and guest. Do anybody have any idea please?
19:26 < jml2> cutesona, kali is not a user distribution, it's a penetration tool distro
19:26 < djph> pankaj: whatever key combo unlocks the host / guest?
19:26 < revel> Sadly, some people seem to use it as one...
19:26 < revel> pankaj: right ctrl?
19:27 < revel> I'm pretty sure it should say that in the bottom right corner.
19:27 < pankaj> djph: OK. I am again searching that combo.
19:28 < djph> pankaj: isnt it like ctrl+alt+l or something
19:29 < ][_R_][> pankaj: Press right ctrl, then alt-tab
19:29 < pankaj> djph: Searching for my laptop model.........
19:29 < jml2> one has to be an idiot not to try out this stuff -- ubuntu minimal iso I recommend..
19:30 < jml2> nice comes with lo 6
19:31 < djph> pankaj: what's your laptop have to do with the key combo to get out of a VM?
19:33 < jml2> triceratux, lol -- trying to run the display settings -"segmentation" fault XD
19:34 < jml2> hopefully not because it is in vbox
19:34 < triceratux> jml2: youll be running swedish deepin in no time http://www.extix.se/?p=407
19:34 < pankaj> djph: Sorry, But it was not about getting out of VM. It was that the touch pad has accidently been disabed.
19:35 < djph> pankaj: then probably Fn+F5 or something (whichever looks like a touchpad)
19:35 < TheWild> hello
19:36 < jml2> plain-user, sounds like you want to read the text -- use "less file.txt" then use "/" to do forward search, type a few chars and hit <enter>  -- tap "n" to go forward, "N" to go back..
19:36 < jml2> plain-user, grep and then finding the line to read LOL
19:37  * jml2 has alias less="less -i"  to do case insensitive searches
19:38 < TheWild> my old laptop has been decomissioned on tuesday. After few days of uptime when it finished analyzing stuff on my external HDDs, I shut it down at the morning. When I came back from office, I wasn't able to turn in on - this time it didn't even power the internal HDD.
19:38 < djph> sounds dead
19:38 < jml2> sounds dead jimmy
19:38 < jml2> beam me up
19:38  * hueh hands TheWild a ticket with a large number on it
19:39 < koala_man> it's resting in the cloud now
19:39 < jml2> koala_man, ouch that hurt!
19:39 < TheWild> so I gave it to the colleague in office - maybe he will have an use of the last working parts (2GB DDR2 RAM, 1GB DDR2 RAM, the LCD and power cord.)
19:39 < jml2> koala_man, sarcastic bastard!
19:40 < TheWild> good friend survived over 8 years.
19:40 < Armand> Oi! I'm the sarcastic bastard around here!
19:40 < Armand> Get orf moi land!
19:41 < jml2> laptops can overheat
19:41 < fendur> TheWild: sounds like they decommissioned it right on time :)
19:42 < Armand> jml2: Any electronics can... lol
19:42 < jml2> Armand, laptops especially ... they're not made to run longer than a couple hours at a time..
19:42 < Armand> jml2: Well, that depends on design. :)
19:42 < Armand> My old Pentium M laptops have run for weeks
19:42 < jml2> Armand, um sure, show me a document telling me otherwise XD
19:43 < Armand> Experience.doc
19:43 < Armand> ^_^
19:43 < revel> jml2: I regularly keep mine running until the next kernel release though.
19:43 < revel> jml2: Also, do YOU have any documents to back up your words...?
19:43 < jml2> hopefully the innovations fedora community did with its distro in battery improvement goes into other distributions
19:43 < Armand> jml2: For shiggles.. I whipped one of the CPUs out and stuffed it into a desktop motherboard.
19:44 < djph> hm, I've had my laptops on and kicking for weeks at a time
19:44 < TheWild> well, the fan didn't run at its highest speed
19:45 < jml2> a laptop that lasted 8 years I would consider a success...  expect breakage at a 5 year ballbark
19:45 < jml2> which tends to be warranty expiration spans for good disk drives
19:47 < Armand> jml2: Mine are 2004 models. :D
19:47 < Armand> What's more.. the HDDs still work.
19:48 < TheWild> a propos the last working parts: internal HDD (also over 8 years old) is still working and doesn't give any signs of going to break soon. For obvious reason I left it to myself.
19:48 < jml2> TheWild, possibility if you're lucky -- im not familiar with all laptops, but i know a fact here is a desktop can fail to boot if the cmos/bios battery is quite dead
19:48 < Armand> I've got SCSI drives that ran for years and still work. They literally out-lived their usefulness.
19:49 < jml2> i revived an old macbook -- only had to swap the damaged platter disk with a low cost 8gig SSD (yeah they sell them this cheap) --- only needing to run it as a pulseaudio relay..
19:49 < Armand> Anyways.. FTS, going home! o/
19:50 < azx> how come when i installed plasma and kde-apps my plasma desktop has nothing
19:50 < azx> but a little icon in the top right
19:50 < TheWild> jml2: The BIOS somewhat broke in this laptop (the settings screen was stuck at "TPM operation was requested"). I thought that CMOS got messed up and removing the battery will fix it, but it only make the computer print warning).
19:51 < azx> is there something i missing to get the full desktop
19:51 < TheWild> okay, now I'm back on this little netbook my parents abandoned when they finally bought a proper laptop. Well, the netbook has a bluetooth but I have no clue how to enable it from the command line.
19:51 < TheWild> Unity recognizes it, but I'm on i3 now.
19:53 < jml2> TheWild, i had a bios corruption on an old system, reflashing it actually fixed it..
19:53 < jml2> TheWild, you should put a battery back  inside and try to reflash the bios if possible, maybe something  interesting can happen
19:53 < jml2> (doesnt hurt to try :p)
19:54 < TheWild> oops, I closed wrong window
19:55 < jml2> if you missed my previous stringssss I can repost if nobody minds
19:55 < jml2> TheWild, i had a bios corruption on an old system, reflashing it actually fixed it..
19:55 < jml2> TheWild, you should put a battery back  inside and try to reflash the bios if possible, maybe that might help fix it
19:55 < TheWild> also I thought updating the BIOS will fix it, but couldn't find any update on the internets.
19:55 < TheWild> Manufacturer site offered nothing
19:55 < jml2> similar to the symptom that the bios was partially working, it was working enough to have a dos-boot to reflash the bios -- and linux was later able to boot properly
19:56 < jml2> (i reapplied the same versioning of the bios, didnt need to particularly be an update)
19:56 < TheWild> I couldn't even find the same version of the BIOS.
19:56 < jml2> what bios is that? maybe it's possible you can put corebios on it XD
19:57 < revel> Coreboot, you mean.
19:57 < azx> can i get an iso, dd if=path/to/iso of=/dev/sda
19:57 < TheWild> it was Samsung (laptop model R522 IIRC)
19:57 < azx> without having to worry about formatting the drive or anything else
19:58 < TheWild> somebody in the past mentioned coreboot, but it didn't include my laptop
19:58 < revel> azx: That won't work if it's really a regular ISO image.
19:58 < azx> why not
19:58 < MrElendig> most "regular" .isos are hybrid ones these days
19:58 < revel> Since they don't have a boot sector or something.
19:58 < revel> MrElendig: Well, there definitely are some places that don't ship hybrid ISOs.
19:58 < azx> i'm pretty sure this is a bootable iso
19:59 < revel> azx: That doesn't mean it's an USB-bootable one...
19:59 < revel> azx: Run `file` on it first and tell us what it says.
19:59 < azx> how would one know the differences
19:59 < MrElendig> revel: not any distroes that are worth using
19:59 < azx> DOS/MBR boot sector; GRand Unified Bootloader, stage1 version 0x79, boot drive 0xbb, stage2 address 0x8e70, 1st sector stage2 0xb8db31c3, stage2 segment 0x201
20:00 < revel> Then it'll work.
20:00 < jml2> TheWild, doesnt look like it ships with separte .bio -- https://support-us.samsung.com/cyber/popup/pop_troubleshooting.jsp?idx=417979&modelname=NP-R522  - - if you cant boot windows, maybe there's a way to extract just the firmware binary and apply it with a dos boot (if you can even boot dos with it)
20:00 < TheWild> thats stupid the BIOS makes such a difference. CD - only ISO format; USB - 0x55 0xAA signature (IIRC)
20:01 < plain-user> hello people. anyone interested in cryptopgraphy puzzles? here is one im trying to solve https://pastebin.com/EHi9twAD
20:01 < azx> i run the command and i get this
20:01 < azx> 4180224+0 records in
20:01 < azx> 4180224+0 records out
20:01 < azx> 2140274688 bytes (2.1 GB, 2.0 GiB) copied, 3.97763 s, 538 MB/s
20:01 < azx> and it finishes in two seconds
20:01 < azx> and the flash drive does not have the iso files on it
20:01 < azx> what gives
20:01 < revel> Did you sync?
20:01 < revel> Run `sync`
20:02 < azx> what does sync do
20:02 < azx> i ran it
20:02 < azx> and it's uh
20:02 < azx> running
20:02 < azx> in term
20:02 < azx> ok it finished
20:02 < revel> 'Synchronize cached writes to persistent storage'
20:02 < azx> do i run dd now?
20:03 < azx> im so confused, sometimes dd works great
20:03 < revel> You should run that post-dd to make sure everything's written to the USB.
20:03 < azx> and now i have to run sync command
20:03 < revel> So, post-sync, the data should be there.
20:03 < TheWild> plain-user: personally I would use PHP, because it had nice and easy functions for cryptography. And if it's an english word, dictionary attack is obvious.
20:03 < azx> my usb drive is now borked
20:03 < TheWild> hmm... maybe I will take a try?
20:04 < azx> i try to open it and it gives me some sort of convoluted error
20:04 < revel> Did you not unmount it?
20:04 < plain-user> TheWild: only if you really want to spend time. i don't know php, so tried in bash.
20:04 < TheWild> plain-user: oh I didn't see you already tried to solve it
20:04 < azx> no i didnt
20:05 < revel> That's probably why it's borked then.
20:05 < azx> how am i suppose to know all of this when it's just writing a simple iso to a usb drive with dd
20:05 < azx> dd always works
20:05 < azx> i umounted it
20:05 < plain-user> TheWild: tried but failed. so i'm not sure why. maybe openssl version mismatch from what they had.
20:05 < azx> i'll try dd again
20:07 < azx> ok it appears to be working now
20:08 < azx> i don't understand why i have to run sync or why it wouldn't give me an "error drive is in use" or something
20:08 < azx> so i would know to umount it
20:09 < revel> Since the device file doesn't block direct writes while the filesystem's mounted and dd is a "dumb" tool that doesn't check for things like that.
20:10 < azx> ok thank you,
20:10 < azx> now i can install KDE correctly with this iso , since installing it through terminal borked it
20:10 < donald> when I lauch eclipse and check the cpu with the command  top, then a java command takes more than 300% of the cpu. Can I reinstall java?
20:10 < azx> kde was blank and only had a small icon in the top left with limited options
20:10 < azx> i have no idea why
20:11 < MrElendig> donald: reinstalling almost never fixes issues like that
20:11 < MrElendig> donald: find out *why* it eats cpu instead
20:11 < donald> MrElendig: do you have any track?
20:12 < djph> it's probably just java trying to spin up eclipse ... it's not exactly "lightweight"
20:12 < RukusX7> What has better driver support? or just better in general? ralink 5370 or realtek rt8188cus?
20:12 < MrElendig> the eclipse devs can help you debug it
20:12 < djph> RukusX7: Intel
20:12 < MrElendig> RukusX7: both are about as horrid
20:12 < MrElendig> (intel is not much better either)
20:12 < RukusX7> damn
20:12 < djph> MrElendig: I've never had problems with Intel though
20:13 < RukusX7> i have both and am deciding which one to give away
20:13 < MrElendig> djph: you are one of the lucky ones then
20:13 < RukusX7> they both seemed as bad to me too
20:13 < donald> MrElendig: the eclipse devs can help you debug it => then I ask at #eclipse-dev?
20:13 < MrElendig> RukusX7: did you try the "new" rtl8xxxu driver btw? it often works better than the other rtl drivers
20:13 < revel> Or just #eclipse
20:13 < revel> I doubt the -dev channel is for help with things like that.
20:13 < djph> MrElendig: dunno about lucky, I mean, I've never not used intel in 10+ years ... only issue is when they're *brand-friggin-new* and the kernel hasn't caught up yet.
20:14 < RukusX7> MrElendig, no, just going to give a rpi2 away, and want the better adapter for myself
20:14 < donald> ok
20:16 < MrElendig> https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7375-wireless_drivers_freedom_considered_harmful
20:18 < jml2> people shouln't use dd for backing things up, juse use cp -xaP /source/. /target
20:18 < Rukus> ffs
20:20 < sergej> Hi
20:21 < sergej> Привет?
20:21 < sergej> Hi?
20:22 < h[u|e|a]h> !spam
20:22 < jml2> !spank h[u|e|a]h
20:22 < sergej> ?
20:23 < sergej> !spam
20:24 < sergej> Hey?
20:26 < ananke> sergej: don't expect an answer to this, as this channel is too large for that
20:26 < sergej> Ok
20:27 < sergej> And for what this channel
20:27 < ayecee> for talking
20:27 < ayecee> find out more at the channel website listed in the topic
20:28 < sergej> There are too much connecting/disconnecting people
20:29 < ayecee> many people configure their irc client to hide that
20:37 < TheWild> plain-user not there? Well, my script failed :( http://termbin.com/wbvl
20:40 < TheWild> how to turn on bluetooth from the command line?
20:41 < revel> TheWild: bluetoothctl?
20:42 < TheWild> hmm... nice shell, thanks.
20:42 < TheWild> though "list" and "devices" doesn't show me anything
20:42 < revel> TheWild: Do you consider parted to be a shell too? :P
20:43 < TheWild> maybe it's not a shell, but I thnink you know what I mean.
20:44 < ayecee> i don't. what do you mean?
20:44 < TheWild> :(
20:44 < TheWild> maybe REPL (read-execute-print-loop)?
20:44 < bls> a shell isn't a REPL and a REPL isn't a shell?
20:45 < pankaj> I am using mplayer to play videos in tty. It is fine but when playing it covers all tty's and not only the one in which it is playing. Is their any solution so that it remains in that in whihc it is being played?
20:45 < ayecee> introducing new terms doesn't make it clearer
20:45 < Sleaker_> err shells are REPLs?
20:45 < TheWild> bls: correct, but how I gonna call it then?
20:45 < Sleaker_> most* shells are REPLs.
20:46 < TheWild> ftp (command) and openssl also works this way
20:46 < bls> Sleaker_: not all of them, no. we're just trying to figure out what's being discussed right now
20:50 < cutesona> hello how can i know that some package is installed or not?
20:50 < bls> cutesona: query the package manager
20:50 < cutesona> apt-get ?????? bls ?
20:51 < bls> dpkg -l | grep packagename is a crude way. there may be a better one
20:51 < cutesona> bls: i use apt-get instead of dpkg
20:51 < revel> `apt list | grep packagename` also works.
20:51 < bls> I think if you ask apt for info about a package it'll tell you if it's installed or not
20:52 < revel> cutesona: You still have dpkg nonetheless and it keeps track of everything.
20:52 < revel> Yeah, `apt show $package` also works.
20:52 < revel> A bit more, err, junk info if all you want to know is "is it installed?"
20:52 < bls> revel++ been a bit since I've been on a .deb system
20:52 < Sleaker_> dpkg -l | grep packagename | grep -e "^ii"
20:52 < cutesona> thakns :)
20:52 < Sleaker_> iirc that's what I use
20:53 < Sleaker_> one way to do it atleast.
20:54 < revel> I have `apt list 2>/dev/null | grep installed` assigned to a value in a script and grep through that to see if a package is installed.
20:54 < revel> (not for general-purpose use)
20:54 < TheWild> revel: nope, bluetoothctl is failing to list a thing
20:55 < revel> TheWild: Do you have all the drivers and firmware and whatever loaded?
20:57 < TheWild> I bet the drivers are there, not sure they're loaded. Bluetooth works from the Unity, but on i3 I'm left with command line tools.
20:57 < TheWild> oh wait, there's bluetooth-sendto that comes with Unity... but it searches, searches, searches...
20:58 < TheWild> nothing
20:59 < MarkusDB1> If I use KVM lots and want updated packages, which is a good dist? Something red hat related?
20:59 < MarkusDB1> Currently using ubuntu, but I find the kvm packages often not the latest.
20:59 < TheWild> seems to be exactly this problem: https://askubuntu.com/questions/997629/how-to-enable-bluetooth-in-i3wm-in-ubuntu-16-04
20:59 < revel> TheWild: Check lsmod on Unity then.
21:00 < TheWild> lsmod running on i3 displays: bluetooth             548864  15 btrtl,btintel,bnep,btbcm,rfcomm,ath3k,btusb
21:00 < Psi-Jack> MarkusDB1: Fedora
21:00 < TheWild> if I want to go back to Unity, I have to close everything
21:00 < MarkusDB1> Psi-Jack: what about arch or centos?
21:01 < TheWild> "sudo service bluetooth status" also active
21:01 < voidcrafted> Hey, random question, I'm on Solus 3, where are mounted drives?
21:01 < voidcrafted> I've tried /mnt and /media
21:01 < Psi-Jack> MarkusDB1: Arch is not for newbies. CentOS isn't as up-to-date. Really depends on what you really want.
21:01 < Psi-Jack> voidcrafted: Same as with any distro.
21:01 < nekOwO> test
21:01 < nekOwO> :D
21:01 < revel> TheWild: Check dmesg for firmware load failures, maybe.
21:02 < voidcrafted> Psi-Jack: Hmm? I mounted it with gnome-disks and I can't find it LOL
21:02 < Psi-Jack> voidcrafted: /run/media/$USER/
21:02 < revel> That set of modules is a couple more than I have loaded and it works for me, for all that that's worth.
21:02 < voidcrafted> Oh thanks :D
21:02 < MarkusDB1> Psi-Jack: I'm not a newbie, so that is covered =)
21:03 < Psi-Jack> MarkusDB1: What is virtual memory?
21:03 < MarkusDB1> Psi-Jack: is this some kind of a test? =)
21:03 < voidcrafted> Markus tabs to google
21:03 < nekOwO> Holy crap. I've just tried BunsenLabs Helium and I'm more than impressed
21:03 < voidcrafted> Oh yeah, I've used that before
21:03 < TheWild> revel: only one line contains "firmware" and it's not an error.
21:03 < Psi-Jack> MarkusDB1: Yes. :)
21:03 < nekOwO> Very nice distro. Has a weird new blue-ish theme though it can be easily changed to the classic grey/black
21:03 < MarkusDB1> Psi-Jack: lol
21:04 < TheWild> oh wait, grep -i firmware
21:04 < TheWild> [    0.108776] ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored
21:04 < TheWild> [    0.313394] acpi PNP0A08:00: [Firmware Info]: MMCONFIG for domain 0000 [bus 00-3f] only partially covers this bridge
21:04 < TheWild> [    1.708858] pci 0000:06:00.0: [Firmware Bug]: disabling VPD access (can't determine size of non-standard VPD format)
21:04 < MarkusDB1> Psi-Jack: I got no reason to prove myself =)
21:04 < Psi-Jack> Newbie detected.
21:04 < MarkusDB1> Psi-Jack: troll
21:04 < Psi-Jack> Negative.
21:05 < Psi-Jack> It's actually funny how many times I ask that simple little question, people claiming to know linux can't even get that correct. :)
21:05 < MarkusDB1> I know what virtual memory is, and I'm familiar with how the swapiness setting works even.
21:06 < MarkusDB1> don't worry
21:06 < Psi-Jack> virtual memory has a little to do with swap, yes. But not only swap.
21:06 < voidcrafted> For reference IRC, virtual memory is basically RAM but slower on your main drive, for when you don't have enough RAM
21:06 < voidcrafted> *iirc
21:06 < revel> TheWild: Well, I'm all out of ideas :D
21:06 < Psi-Jack> Wrong.
21:06 < revel> voidcrafted: That's swap.
21:06 < Psi-Jack> ^
21:06 < voidcrafted> Ah :P Then I have no idea
21:07 < Psi-Jack> Like I said... ;)
21:07 < voidcrafted> virtual memory
21:07 < voidcrafted> nounComputing
21:07 < voidcrafted> noun: virtual memory; noun: virtual storage
21:07 < voidcrafted>     memory that appears to exist as main storage although most of it is supported by data held in secondary storage, transfer between the two being made automatically as required.
21:07 < Psi-Jack> Also wrong.
21:07 < voidcrafted> o_o the internet is wrong? :zoomeyes:
21:07 < Psi-Jack> The combined total of Physical RAM /and/ Swap, is virtual memory.
21:07 < revel> I, uhh, think it's a way of representing memory that abstracts it a bit rather than just giving it the real physical address?
21:08 < lukey> revel: Yep, i think you are righter than Psi-Jack
21:08 < Psi-Jack> And yes, abstraction is done through virtual memory due to pages that may be on disk in swap. :)
21:08 < revel> k, guess not. I knew it had *something* to do with swap tho.
21:08 < Psi-Jack> Yep yep.
21:09 < Psi-Jack> It's just not /only/ swap like most people answer. :)
21:09 < Psi-Jack> This is true even in Windows, too, not just Linux.
21:10 < ][_R_][> voidcrafted: Virtual Memory is the memory a program sees, which can either be physical memory (RAM), system memory (kernel space stuff for drivers), memory mapped things or swap.
21:12 < voidcrafted> Ah, got it
21:12 < djk> anyone have issues with Windows 10 (spring update 1804) not seeing SMB shares
21:12 < Psi-Jack> Why would ##linux care?
21:12 < ][_R_][> djk: try ##Windows
21:12 < Dagmar> You probably need to set your Samba server to win browser elections.  Standard stuff that Windows can't find anything
21:12 < djk> because people run samba with windows connecting
21:13 < Psi-Jack> djk: ##windows
21:13 < lukey> Swap is actually the exception here, because if the programm wants to access Memory that is currently is Swap, the Kernel gets notified (Page Fault by the MMU) and will load the needed data from swap to memory and map that to the correct address for the program. Thats also how mmap works
21:13 < Psi-Jack> djk: Possibly #samba for samba specific help.
21:14 < djk> thank you for the suggestions
21:14 < Psi-Jack> Generally unwise to come into a Linux channel asking Windows questions. :)
21:15 < djk> yeah there are always those but it is one big interop world
21:16 < Psi-Jack> You didn't ask an interop question.
21:16 < Dagmar> This is true
21:16 < MarkusDB1> Psi-Jack: Anyways I check fedora out for the updated kvm packages, thanks!
21:16 < Psi-Jack> Good stuff.
21:17 < Psi-Jack> MarkusDB1: Ready for the next quiz? ;)
21:17 < revel> Psi-Jack: What's the prize?
21:19 < bray90820_> Is there a way to use grep or awk or something to search for a string such as "Today is Monday" then have it search for a string above it and display the first result?
21:20 < MarkusDB1> Psi-Jack: if I can ask a question back
21:20 < ananke> bray90820_: grep -B1
21:23 < bray90820_> ananke: Not what I meant
21:23 < bray90820_> https://pastebin.com/raw/4dhr2D2y
21:23 < bray90820_>  Those are groups of files on a drive the top line is the name of the drive and I wanted to search for the file and have it tell me what the top line in the group is
21:23 < GNU\colossus> bray90820_, GNU sed can do something like that:  sed -n '/first match/,/second match/p*
21:24 < GNU\colossus> s/*/'
21:28 < bray90820_> GNU\colossus: I assume you were telling me to do
21:28 < bray90820_> sed -n '/first match/,/second match/p*s/*/'
21:28 < GNU\colossus> no, just to  sed -n '/first match/,/second match/p'
21:28 < GNU\colossus> typo'd the asterisk in there
21:29 < GNU\colossus> bray90820_, ^
21:30 < louis__> I have two new disks (sda+sdb) plus an old disk (sdc): https://paste.linux.community/view/3f19926d - The I/O size on sdc is lower than my new disks. Is this hardware specific or can it be changed to match the new discs?
21:30 < GNU\colossus> good night, and good luck :)
21:31 < revel> louis__: It's probably a hardware thing. They're even pre-AF.
21:31 < revel> s/they're/it's/
21:34 < TheWild> bluetooth enabled, "rfkill unblock all" was needed
21:34 < TheWild> SimonNL from #ubuntu helped
21:35 < bray90820_> GNU\colossus: Just about
21:35 < bray90820_> I  was searching for "CD 5" as my first term but "CD 5" is also the name of a directory and it lists all the files in "CD 5" which I don't want
21:35 < bray90820_> https://pastebin.com/raw/E8CLwM72
21:36 < louis__> revel: I keep getting this error: https://paste.linux.community/view/e816578a despite sdc not being mounted, part of an array on anytihing alike. I used "sgdisk --replicate=/dev/sdc /dev/sda AND sgdisk -G /dev/sdc" for both sda and sdc.
21:37 < revel> RAID stuff? Dunno.
21:37 < revel> Or LVM? Dunno about that either.
21:37 < revel> I just know that "old disk probably means worse I/O performance"
21:39 < Psi-Jack> revel: Time to start learning. :)
21:39 < revel> LVM, maybe, but I don't have a buncha disks (or a RAID controller) lying around, so no RAID for me.
21:40 < Psi-Jack> No  need for a RAID controller.
21:40 < xamithan> fakeraid
21:40 < Psi-Jack> No.
21:40 < Psi-Jack> Never fakeraid.
21:40 < revel> Right, softraid. Still, just one disk.
21:40 < Psi-Jack> mdraid, sure. Fakeraid, Never.
21:41 < lukey> louis__: How about a reboot ;)
21:41 < xamithan> How you do mdraid with only one disk
21:41 < Psi-Jack> Make two partitions of equal size. ;)
21:41 < xamithan> Yeah but what is benefit
21:41 < revel> "none"
21:41 < Psi-Jack> You can get two copies of every byte.
21:42 < Psi-Jack> LOl
21:42 < tds> that can be sort of useful, eg with zfs and copies=2
21:43 < Dagmar> Just because you _can_ do something doesn't mean there's any measurable benefit to doing it.
21:43 < Dagmar> Just look at Gentoo.
21:43 < Psi-Jack> Ouch. LOl
21:43 < revel> Dagmar: Okay, I'm looking at my Gentoo system. What now?
21:44 < Dagmar> revel: I ain't your therapist.
21:44 < louis__> lukey: have tried that w/o any help. Maybe I'd help to use disks with similar i/o size
21:44 < revel> You told me to look at it.
21:44 < revel> I was expecting further instructions.
21:45 < CrazyH> Unbuntu 16.04. Any idea why `cp -a $filename ./temp/$new_filename` does not preseve file creation times? I also tried '-p'. That didn' work either :-/
21:45 < candidat> donald, french ? :)
21:45 < CrazyH> *Ubuntu
21:45 < Dagmar> Somethign else is already using /dev/sdc2.  I'd look very closely into what that is if I were you
21:45 < Dagmar> CrazyH: Use the stat command on both files
21:45 < Dagmar> CrazyH: File timestamps aren't what you think they are
21:45 < koala_man> Psi-Jack: why not fakeraid? recovery reasons?
21:46 < CrazyH> Dagmar, ok. I'll give that a try
21:46 < xamithan> Because fakeraid is garbage
21:46 < Psi-Jack> koala_man: Many reasons. Recovery being one. Two, fakeraid is barely supported and still fully exposes all disks to the operating system.
21:46 < Dagmar> CrazyH: The TL;DR is that there's _three_ times stored for each file, and the one you're looking at represents when the file was created _in that filesystem_ which is not the same thing as what you're expecting
21:46 < qman__> mdraid is in all ways better than fakeraid
21:47 < Psi-Jack> And yeah, mdraid is always better than BIOS-provided fakeraid.
21:47 < Dagmar> wat
21:47 < Dagmar> Oh *that* "fakeraid"
21:47 < koala_man> Psi-Jack: do you mean that Linux sees 3 disks where 1 is actually a raid1 view of the other 2?
21:47 < qman__> Athe only reason to use the fakeraid driver is to recover data from a windows system that was sset up with it
21:47 < Dagmar> yeah I honestly wouldn't be trusting the RAID support on consumer-level motherboards
21:47 < Psi-Jack> kolaman: No, I mean it shows /dev/sda1-3, even though they're all part of the same RAID5, for example.
21:47 < louis__> Dagmar: it's not mounted and lsof didn't give any clues.
21:48 < CrazyH> Dagmar, ok. Thanks! :-)  That makes sense
21:48 < koala_man> Psi-Jack: will they act as mirrors of each other and write to the same backing raid5 config?
21:48 < lukey> Dagmar: It ulitmately is sw raid in ring -x anyways (where x is the ringnumber that the BIOS operates in nowdays)
21:48 < Psi-Jack> koala_man: That's the mystery. ';)
21:49 < Dagmar> louis__: Just for a giggle, try moving /dev/md129 up to be the second argument passed
21:49 < Psi-Jack> Dagmar: Yeah, that's what 'fakeraid' primarily referrs to is consumer motherboard provided "raid"
21:49 < qman__> koala_man: generally no, writing to the individual disk will simply corrupt the array
21:49 < koala_man> even better
21:50 < Psi-Jack> heh
21:50 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, and you can easily corrupt the raid because of what qman__ just said.
21:50 < koala_man> qman__: to the individual disk as exposed by fakeraid, and not to the individual disk in general right?
21:50 < Dagmar> louis__: A cursory examination of the man page reveals the syntax: "mdadm [mode] <raiddevice> [options] <component-devices>"
21:50 < Psi-Jack> Also: No tools!
21:50 < Psi-Jack> RAID problem? Reboot.
21:50 < qman__> koala_man: the individual disks are not exposed by fakeraid, they"re always there
21:51 < Psi-Jack> mdraid problem? Evaluate with hands on tools available, and fix it without rebooting.
21:51 < Dagmar> louis__: Note that you've listed _four_ things there, but --raid-devices is set to _three_.  This is probably a syntax issue and there's no telling what mdadm thinks /dev/sdc2 is supposed to be used for
21:51 < qman__> koala_man: fakeraid drivers can assemble them into an array
21:51 < koala_man> qman__: what does Linux see?
21:51 < Psi-Jack> koala_man: Three drives.
21:52 < louis__> Psi-Jack: Have tried that
21:52 < koala_man> Psi-Jack: is this in the raid5 or raid1 case?
21:52 < Psi-Jack> All
21:52 < qman__> koala_man: the three individual drives, which you can then use dmraid to assemble and create your raid volume in /dev/mapper
21:52 < louis__> Dagmar: sda2 sdb2 and sdc2 is 3 partitions?
21:53 < Dagmar> louis__: Look at your command... You have "/dev/md129 /dev/sda2 /dev/sdb2 /dev/sdc2" all in a row there
21:53 < Dagmar> louis__: The raid device (which is apparently /dev/md129) is suppsoed to come _before_ any options
21:53 < koala_man> Psi-Jack: so whether you have 2 or 3 physical disks, Linux sees 3 devices?
21:53 < qman__> No
21:54 < neko_> test
21:54 < qman__> It sees however many you have
21:54 < neko_> test
21:54 < koala_man> how about grub?
21:55 < qman__> same
21:56 < koala_man> isn't fakeraid supposed to let you boot from RAID? how does that work if the bootloaders see physical disks and not an assembled array?
21:56 < louis__> Dagmar: This gave same error: "mdadm --create --verbose /dev/md129 --level=5 --raid-devices=3 /dev/sda2 /dev/sdb2 /dev/sdc2"
21:56 < Dagmar> Sounds like one of hte reasons I don't use motherboard-raid, actually
21:56 < Dagmar> louis__: Move /dev/md129 all the way up to the front of the list
21:56 < louis__> Dagmar: I use mdadm (software raid)
21:57 < Psi-Jack> koala_man: Magic
21:57 < Psi-Jack> Lol
21:57 < koala_man> uefi. got it.
21:57 < lukey> koala_man: grub supports md devices too, even LVM and luks encryption
21:57 < louis__> Dagmar: maybe I'd help with a disc with similar i/o size?
21:57 < qman__> the fakeraid chip only sets it up and stops doing anything meaningful once the bios boots the disk, the OS needs drivers to assemble the array in software
21:57 < Dagmar> louis__: If it's still giving you the weird error about /dev/sdc2 and all three of those partitions are the exact same size when you should start checking whether or not /dev/sdc is just broken
21:58 < qman__> This is teue in all OSes
21:58 < qman__> true*
21:58 < Dagmar> louis__: If they're different block sizes, if mdadm will even tolerate that the performance is going to suck
21:58 < nekoseam> Which do you prefer, weechat or irssi and why?
21:58 < qman__> That's why it's called fakeraid
21:58 < lukey> louis__: are you sure there also is no swap or PV on the partition?
21:59 < Psi-Jack> nekoseam: Voting V
21:59 < Dagmar> qman__: I've seen some that present a fake, single device and won't let you access the individual drives anymore at all
21:59 < Psi-Jack> nekoseam: Voting booths are ----> that way
21:59 < koala_man> qman__: is this with actual bios or uefi?
21:59 < nekoseam> I prefer irssi because I'm used to it and it works :-)
21:59 < Dagmar> qman__: I've seen some that perform like USB "legacy" support did for awhile when vendors were still working out how to do that, which presented the fake device and the _real_ devices at the same time, which can only end in tears basically
22:00 < qman__> koala_man: both, the bios type is not relevant
22:00 < koala_man> qman__: ok, so the bios sets up the fakeraid and reads the 512 byte boot sector, loads it into memory, and then it's not involved anymore? and then that MBR needs to add raid support?
22:00 < Dagmar> It kinda is since another fun gotcha is that one motherboard vendors RAID implementation isn't guaranteed to be compatible with any other
22:00 < qman__> Dagmar: I'd classify that as a real raid contriller, if a crappy one
22:01 < louis__> lukey: there's not.
22:01 < Dagmar> A _decent_ RAID controller is going to give you one, combined disk to see, and keep you from touching the others without using special utilities
22:01 < louis__> Thanks guys. I'll switch to another disk with simliar i/o size to the other disks.
22:02 < koala_man> qman__: or can the MBR use regular read sector interrupts to read from the fakeraid
22:02 < louis__> Dagmar: "mdadm /dev/md129 --create --verbose --level=5 --raid-devices=3 /dev/sda2 /dev/sdb2 /dev/sdc2" didn't help.
22:03 < qman__> koala_man: the fakeraid chip does not provide a single point of access to the assembled array once the bootloader is read into memory
22:03 < Psi-Jack> And you should never make a raid5 with 0 spares. You're practically guaranteeing data loss.
22:03 < qman__> It's up to.the bootloader to.figure that out
22:03 < qman__> You should never make a raid 5
22:03 < Dagmar> louis__: Then mdadm is probably giving you the finger because of the block size differences, or because you failed to correctly tag those partitions
22:04 < Dagmar> louis__: For mdadm to use a partition/slice as a member, it has to be flagged as a raid volume.  If it's still flagged as vfat or something silly it's not usable
22:05 < koala_man> qman__: that sounds off. with e.g. cd booting, you also have exotic storage and a boot sector being loaded, but that boot sector is then free to use emulated disk reads to read its stage2 bootloader or whatever until it can load enough code to scan the hardware
22:06 < lukey> qman__: Depends, some BIOSes emulate an SATA Controller in the lower rings as mentioned
22:06 < lukey> qman__: THats also the case when booting from USB
22:07 < ullbeking> what is the best channel for discussion of linux audio specifically?
22:08 < NerdTheThird> i can think only of #ardour
22:08 < bls> there a pulse channel on here
22:08 < NerdTheThird> it's the DAW so guys there must know of audio and what not
22:08 < koala_man> regardless though, I get the process. like for cd/usb, you pretend the hardware is a 1980s hd until the OS has loaded enough to discover it's a lie, and then the OS needs to take over the cd/usb/fakeraid responsibilities and continue from there
22:08 < ullbeking> ty NerdTheThird and bls
22:09 < koala_man> thanks
22:10 < koala_man> lukey: that was my first thought as to what was happening. what kind of devices do that?
22:10  * lukey just discovered git-annex and likes it 
22:12 < turkeyhand> how do I torrent stuff in germany without a VPN
22:13 < lukey> koala_man: what do you mean with "devices"? Apart from storage, USB-Keyboards are also emulated in some way, or maybe they just work with the syscalls of the BIOS
22:13 < lukey> turkeyhand: You just do it...?
22:14 < CrazyH> if I run `ls --full-time` what timestamp am I seeing?
22:14 < FreeFull> lukey: Not the best idea in Germany
22:14 < ayecee> CrazyH: let me see what the manpage says
22:15 < FreeFull> turkeyhand: VPNs can be really cheap
22:15 < lukey> FreeFull: What is the problem with downloading Debian ISOs via Torrent !?
22:15 < revel> turkeyhand: Define "stuff"
22:16 < Celmor> can I assume a cd is unreadable if it doesn't show up in file manager of lsblk after putting it into the dvd player?
22:16 < FreeFull> lukey: ISPs don't like it
22:16 < lukey> FreeFull: and?
22:16 < ayecee> Celmor: probably yes
22:16 < Psi-Jack> I see no reason to use a VPN just to use torrents, in any country.
22:16 < Celmor> should the disk file like sr0 at least show up though?
22:16 < lukey> Celmor: dmesg may tell you more
22:16 < FreeFull> lukey: They'll throttle
22:16 < notmike> lukey: are you related to luke-jr ?
22:17 < lukey> notmike: Nope, but he is over in #dragonbox-pyra too...
22:17 < ayecee> luke-sr's brother
22:17 < Celmor> lukey, only from when I plugged in the dvd player https://ptpb.pw/2rcW.html
22:18 < CrazyH> ayecee, have you found a clear answer from the man page yet? I sure haven't
22:18 < FreeFull> I bought a VPN for 12 months from OVH for £43, and i'm pretty sure you can get cheaper rates from other providers
22:18 < ayecee> CrazyH: i thought you were going to show me what the man page says
22:18 < FreeFull> I use it for IRC though, not torrenting
22:19 < CrazyH> ayecee, if it was actaully helpful, Iwould have
22:19 < revel> FreeFull: You mean a VPS?
22:19 < bls> people pay to IRC?
22:19 < ayecee> CrazyH: well maybe it is helpful
22:19 < lukey> FreeFull: I never had problems with throttling as far as i can remember
22:20 < ayecee> CrazyH: won't know until you look
22:20 < FreeFull> revel: Oops, yes, VPS
22:21 < Celmor> I'm using vpn99, can't beat $0.99 per month
22:21 < FreeFull> I get those two mixed up sometimes because you can set up a VPN with a VPS
22:21 < FreeFull> But of course a VPS is more flexible
22:21 < lukey> Celmor: Looks normal, as long as /dev/sr0 is there. What does it show when you insert the Disl? Also does it work with an known-to work disk?
22:21 < CrazyH> ayecee, oh yeah.... why didn't I think of that? I guess I just have a fettish for logging on to IRC and asking questions that could have easily answered myself because I seriously get off  on being RTFM's all afternoon
22:21 < ayecee> CrazyH: that's pretty much what i've assumed
22:21 < ayecee> CrazyH: that and arguing about it.
22:22 < DalekSec> triceratux: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2018-May/011656.html
22:22 < turkeyhand> I can't buy a vpn
22:22 < Celmor> lukey, I don't have /dev/sr0, I used the dvd player before with a working driver disk (one of the smaller ones) but disconnected it till now
22:22 < turkeyhand> and it's someone elses internet
22:22 < stevendale> Hi
22:22 < ayecee> CrazyH: but prove me wrong. tell me what the manpage says.
22:22 < Pentode> hi
22:22 < ayecee> CrazyH: maybe we can work together to decipher it.
22:22 < turkeyhand> I just don't want to get them in trouble, can I use TOR to torrent?
22:23 < Psi-Jack> turkeyhand: Why would you "get in trouble?"
22:23 < Celmor> lukelr, nothing changes on linux when I insert the disk, it just starts rotating in the player and spin down after a while
22:23 < ayecee> turkeyhand: technically yes, but it'll be very slow and other tor users won't like you
22:23 < ayecee> because you'll be making their tor slow too
22:23 < bls> the good thing is, they'll have no idea where to direct their anger
22:23 < lukey> Celmor: the reboot, verify that sr0 is there, insert the disk and look in dmesg
22:24 < stevendale> You can torrent without a VPN, just disable seeding
22:24 < stevendale> >.>
22:24 < triceratux> DalekSec: way cool. ill be sure to update
22:25 < bls> you can torrent without a VPN without disabling seeding
22:25 < Psi-Jack> Also: Not your internet? Someone else's? Very simple. Stop.
22:25  * notmike checks the jar for whiskey
22:25 < DalekSec> triceratux: Sure, figure you'd like to know. :)
22:25 < CrazyH> ayecee, I can tell you what it DOEN'T say. It don't as far as know so far there are atleast 4 time stamps per file. Access, modify and change ( which you can see with the stat command ) and file creation dates in your local filesytem. Since the date stamps that I'm seeing when I type ls are not even possible, and the man page doesn't seem to tell which one of the 4 ls actually shows, I figured I'd come ask
22:25 < stevendale> bls: Sure, but seeding is the bit that gets you in trouble
22:25 < stevendale> Not downloading
22:26 < ayecee> CrazyH: can you tell me what it says?
22:26 < bls> I don't get in trouble for seeding torrents
22:26 < BCMM> if you just stop using proprietary software, you won't even get in trouble for torrenting
22:26 < revel> turkeyhand: Why would you get in trouble for torrenting a Linux iso?
22:26 < ayecee> bls: you're not torrent hard enough then
22:26 < Psi-Jack> turkeyhand: Why would you "get in trouble?"
22:27 < noway96> if I navigate to /sys/bus/usb/devices and ls I get 1-0:1.0, etc. What do you call the underlying physical devices of 1-0:1.0. Are they addresses of busses?
22:27  * bls steps up his torrential game
22:27 < CrazyH> ayecee, yeah, it says that my files were apparently created in 2012. Since I created them about a week ago and my system time has been correct, I'm trying to figure out how this is possible
22:27 < ayecee> CrazyH: no, the manpage
22:28 < sadbox> ayecee: CrazyH: I'm gonna fix this convo for you
22:28 < sadbox> ayecee: the man page does not say which timestamp it uses, --full-time says "like -l, but with iso-full"
22:28 < CrazyH> ayecee, well, it's atleast probably 1000 lines long. which part that isn't helpful would you like me to recite to you?
22:28 < sadbox> -l simply says "use a long listing format"
22:28 < ayecee> CrazyH: the part for the --full-time option
22:29 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: Annnnd.. Sounds like you have a little experience in this. Not exactly a good thing, mind you. :p
22:29 < ayecee> CrazyH: i'm starting to think you weren't being facetious about the whole RTFM fetish.
22:29 < NGC3982> im on ubuntu 16.04, and when i do apt-get update it seems to only fetch the packet lists and then exit. no error message, but no real updating for almost two months (and that feels odd). any way to check?
22:29 < ayecee> CrazyH: you don't seem to have any interest in solving the problem.
22:29 < CrazyH> ayecee,  --full-time \n like -l --time-style=full-iso
22:29 < sadbox> ayecee: just to repeat, CrazyH is not actually wrong, the man page does not specify what "use a long listing format" does
22:30 < ayecee> CrazyH: okay. which one does -l show?
22:30  * sadbox beats his head against the desk 
22:30  * stevendale gives a pillow to sadbox
22:30 < stevendale> "Here, you'll hurt yourself"
22:30 < CrazyH> ayecee, -l     use a long listing format
22:31 < phinxy> I have a problem:  A truetype font have all its lower-case high-height characters, eg. dfgjpqty.  looking closer, not many fonts lay on the same plane but appears to bounce around.  Should this be fixed in the terminal or the font itself?
22:31 < ayecee> CrazyH: from your experience, which timestamp does that show? or, which timestamp from stat does it match?
22:31 < bls> sadbox: if you want to take a literalist approach and only read a single line, sure
22:31 < Celmor> lukelr, it works fine on windows
22:31 < stevendale> phinxy ttf-dejavu
22:32 < CrazyH> ayecee, when given results that are completely insane and don't match any reasonable expectation whatsover, that last thing that want to do is assume. That's why I came toask
22:32 < sadbox> bls: just trying to move it along past the assumption that it's in the man page
22:32 < ayecee> sadbox: it's not an assumption.
22:32 < bls> sadbox: it is though
22:32 < phinxy> stevendale• "this is a dummy transitional package"
22:32 < ayecee> sadbox: it's leading a horse to water.
22:33 < ayecee> CrazyH: so, from your experience, which timestamp does that show? or, which timestamp from stat does it match?
22:33 < sadbox> bls: "use a long listing format" does not specify which timestamp it uses
22:33 < bls> sadbox: so the man page consists of that single sentence?
22:33 < ayecee> he got the abridged edition
22:33 < phinxy> stevendale• You suggested me another font?  how rude.
22:34 < stevendale> :P
22:34 < sadbox> bls: obviously it contains plenty of other unrelated information
22:34 < CrazyH> ayecee, it matches the modify time from stat
22:35 < bls> sadbox: and also some related information
22:35 < ayecee> CrazyH: alright! you've solved the problem, all on your own.
22:36 < sadbox> bls: Please, by all means, show me where the manpage defines that
22:36 < CrazyH> ayecee, so I'm just supposed to assume that everytime I see an insane result that if I find some other value that it matches that the mystery is sovled?! you've GOT to be kidding me!
22:36 < Celmor> lukelr, seems to work better with a sata to usb adapter
22:36 < ayecee> CrazyH: i mean, this is just deduction.
22:37 < ayecee> there's four timestamp values. ls shows one of them, and it matches the modified value.
22:37 < sadbox> CrazyH: checking the stat command is just a shortcut to looking at the code for ls and seeing what it cares about from the stat() call
22:37 < ayecee> can't really come from anywhere else.
22:37 < bls> sadbox: the -l argument can be manipulated in various ways using different arguments, those arguments document what they change and what the defaults are
22:37 < sadbox> bls: Still waiting
22:37 < turkeyhand> Psi-Jack, torrenting something that isn't a linux distro
22:37 < turkeyhand> you get in serious trouble in germany
22:38 < Psi-Jack> turkeyhand: Liiiiike?
22:38 < Pentode> anything that _isnt_ linux, or specific things?
22:38 < turkeyhand> like movies and whatever else
22:38 < Pentode> oh
22:38 < CrazyH> Ah, thank you! so now the useful information is coming out. If  I would have known the ls was based on stat, this whole conversation would have been a 1 liner ;-)
22:38 < ayecee> CrazyH: which should launch your next question - how did the time get set to before the file was created?
22:39 < revel> turkeyhand: I don't think ##linux is the place to discuss warez or whatever.
22:39 < Psi-Jack> turkeyhand: Well, d'uh. Illegal activities is illegal. You want us to help you support crimes? Not happening.
22:39 < turkeyhand> not warez
22:39 < turkeyhand> crimes? are you serious
22:39 < bls> ls isn't based on stat, they're two different interfaces to filesystem metadata
22:39 < Psi-Jack> Yes
22:39 < turkeyhand> tell me you've never torrented a movie
22:39 < ayecee> CrazyH: that one's easier to solve. the timestamp of files is typically stored when a file is archived, and restored when a file is extracted.
22:39 < revel> It is illegal in Germany.
22:39 < CrazyH> ayecee, yes, I am definitely wondering about that
22:39 < Psi-Jack> I have never torrented a movie.
22:39 < turkeyhand> you fucking liar
22:39 < bray90820_> How would I use grep to find a string that compes before another string
22:39 < NGC3982> turkeyhand: language.
22:39 < ayecee> CrazyH: your copy was made in the last week, but the original was from 2012.
22:39 < Psi-Jack> !ops turkeyhand Language, Asking help for illegal activitgies
22:40 < turkeyhand> oh wah
22:40 < dviola> lol
22:40 < CrazyH> ayecee, not possible. The origial file was created a week ago
22:40 < rypervenche> bray90820_: You could use lookarounds
22:40 < turkeyhand> !ops Psi-Jack for being a crybaby
22:40 < revel> turkeyhand: Whether or not people here have is regardless, this isn't the place for discussing illegal activities. Though I'm sure you can find somewhere online to discuss such things :)
22:40 < bls> you can also use touch to change a filesystem's metadata
22:40  * Psi-Jack rolls his eyes.
22:40 < NGC3982> still, i guess he can actually argue about it being illegal or not, and in so if it validates support or not
22:40 < revel> s/regardless/irrelevant/
22:40 < NGC3982> but the language does not help.
22:40 < bray90820_> rypervenche: That's not grep
22:40 < CrazyH> thanks bls
22:40 < ayecee> CrazyH: well then, something else has set the date. this is a possible thing to do. maybe a computer that had the wrong time set modified the file.
22:40 < rypervenche> bray90820_: grep -oP uses Perl regex and is indeed apart of grep.
22:41 < revel> I think pgrep does that by default.
22:41 < bray90820_> I need to use pure bash
22:41 < revel> No, wait... That's for procs.
22:41 < rypervenche> bray90820_: You just asked how to do it in grep. I just told you how.
22:42 < bls> you could chain greps together if yours isn't linked with PCRE
22:42 < rypervenche> bray90820_: https://www.regular-expressions.info/lookaround.html
22:42 < sadbox> CrazyH: just to be clear, like bls said, I'm referring to lstat() the syscall
22:42 < sadbox> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/lstat.html  <-
22:43 < funksh0n> Hi all.
22:43 < CrazyH> ayecee, yeah, I don't know. These are picture files, so there are only two devices that are involved. The camera and the laptop. The laptop has shown no indications of incorect system time in the last 6 months +. The camera also has delivered MANY files i the last month with correct time date stamps. So how did it happen that just these small hand full of files created one week ago have completely insane time date stamps?
22:43 < sadbox> CrazyH: maybe your camera battery died
22:43 < ayecee> CrazyH: probably the timestamp on the camera was wrong when those were taken.
22:44 < bls> I've seen devices that set a default time of something around their manufacture date for the event the time hasn't been set
22:44 < ayecee> CrazyH: also, you should let go of this "completely insane" appelation. it biases your thinking.
22:44 < bls> or at least the time their firmware was burned to ROM
22:44 < bls> because digital photos from the epoch what?
22:45 < ayecee> december 1969 baybee
22:45 < CrazyH> ok. Thanks for the help
22:46 < CrazyH> I guess I'll have to go touch all of those files in the correct order to reset their time date stamps to modern reality
22:46 < ayecee> i think dec 32nd, 3032, would be a more insane number, and that's not even completely insane yet.
22:47 < ayecee> a date from 2012 is merely odd
22:47 < CrazyH> ok, so maybe "completely insane" was a bit of strong language.
22:47 < CrazyH> everything makes sense somehow.
22:47 < bls> maybe your camera caught the y2k bug
22:48 < ayecee> y2k12 bug!
22:48 < ayecee> the sequel
22:48 < revel> I thought it was y2k36
22:48 < ayecee> there can be more than one sequel
22:48 < CrazyH> huh... well I bought it around 2012
22:48 < revel> No, y2k38
22:48 < bls> y(2^32)+1
22:49 < ||JD||> Dec 31 1969 is just a date from a NULL timestamp
22:49 < ayecee> it was also a date from the first timestamps
22:50 < bls> good thing nobody remembers the 60's
22:50 < ayecee> if you can remember it, you weren't there, amirite
22:51 < analogical> curious, which is the most security focused distro, Mint or Ubuntu?
22:51 < CrazyH> so... some pics that i took got labeled 2012. Some moe pics that I took 20 mins later got labled 2018. More pics that I took not long after that ( same day ) got labled 2012. This is without recharging or plugging the camera into anything. Fireware bug?
22:51 < CrazyH> *firmware bug
22:51 < bls> sounds most plausible
22:51 < ayecee> maybe. how does the camera get its time set?
22:52 < CrazyH> ayecee, I have no idea
22:52 < CrazyH> ayecee, it's a Contour Roam 1600
22:52 < RayTracer> cached from rtc and with gps/radio after being turned on? just guessing from your report
22:53 < ayecee> does this camera have gps?
22:53 < CrazyH> I don't think so. i've never seen any indications of it
22:53 < CrazyH> but I don't know for sure
22:54 < CrazyH> But... if it did. Since I took these pictures on top of a mountain... it wold raise the question of "why didn't the gps work?"
22:54 < ayecee> oooh, relevant.
22:55 < ayecee> could be it doesn't have gps, but uses a different radio time service that wasn't available that high up on the mountain.
22:55 < CrazyH> Open mountan BTW. No cliffs or giant boulders to block signals
22:56 < ayecee> probably have to check the manual to be sure
22:56 < ayecee> in any case, you've never had to set the time?
22:57 < cowsay> Would anyone be able to provide me a little direction for installing 4.17-rc4 on an ubuntu-based distro?  I have a laptop with one of the new Intel/Vega chips and need to test how things are working to decide if I want to keep it. A couple weeks ago I tested another release candidate (rc2 or 3) and managed to find deb packages but I can't remember for the life of me where to get those
22:58 < bls> WWVB?
22:59 < cowsay> bls, was that for me or something else?
22:59 < bls> different discussion
22:59 < cowsay> ok
22:59 < cowsay> just got here
22:59 < ayecee> CrazyH: i imagine there's a small battery in there that preserves the time when you swap the main battery, and that small battery is weak or discharged.
23:01 < CrazyH> ayecee, ok,  think I see what might have happened. This camera has a file that lives on the SD card called FW-RTC.txt. There is a line in the file  that says "DT:2012/12/12 07:43:36". You have to edit and save this file every time you want to change picture / video modes. I'm guessing that for some reason that I don't remember... I changed a setting in this file in the middle of taking pics. Maybe the 2018 time stamps came from copying the pics from the cam
23:01 < CrazyH> era to my laptop, sorting them and copying them back to the SD card on the camera
23:01 < bls> cowsay: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/ ?
23:01 < ayecee> that sounds like a good theory
23:02 < cowsay> bls, just found that again, thanks.  do you have any idea if there's a necessary order to install these in?  and if I need to use linux-image and linux-image-unsigned or just one of them?
23:02 < stevendale> Hi cowsay
23:02 < cowsay> hi stevendale
23:02 < JeffATL> because i work almost entirely with Gentoo Linux, I can put in any number of kernels as i please - how limiter are RH/Ubuntu with respect to how new a kernel you can boot with
23:02 < JeffATL> oops limited
23:02 < stevendale> Have you tried using cowsay and terminal? :D
23:02 < cowsay> i have indeed :)
23:02 < bls> cowsay: no clue there, never used that ppa, just know it's where people get sent when they need to try out non-stable kernels
23:02 < bls> JeffATL: you can do the same stuff you do in gentoo
23:03 < noway96> is the path /sys/bus/usb/devices what does usb1, usb2, usb3, usb4 represent?
23:03 < noway96> in*
23:04 < bls> noway96: different chips/hubs/connectors
23:06 < noway96> bls, then what does 2-1, 2-1:1.0 represent in same directory?
23:07 < bls> noway96: if you poke around, you'll see that a lot of those are symlinks back up to other devices
23:08 < bls> basically giving you different ways to view/interact with the topology
23:09 < bls> kind of like /dev/sd# vs /dev/disk/by-X/...
23:10 < noway96> bls, cool
23:10 < noway96> ls -l shows a clear device hierarchy
23:10 < bls> lsusb -t is also informative
23:11 < noway96> bls, well lsusb doesn't show me all the usb ports attached to my desktop
23:12 < JeffATL> bls: all the way up to, say, kernel 4.9.76?
23:13 < bls> JeffATL: gentoo isn't doing anything magic. you can compile, install, and run any kernel you want
23:14 < bls> as long as you don't cross the ABI boundaries your userland depends on
23:14 < justanotheruser> Why does cups seemingly randomly pause my printer, requiring me to resume it in the cups web interface?
23:18 < ayecee> because it's become sentient. you should probably take it out back and shoot it before it skynets.
23:18 < ayecee> now, pausing printers. soon, pausing coffee makers.
23:18 < bls> "What's a printer?" :P
23:19 < hipp> bls> an antiquated device for putting words on paper
23:20 < phogg> A printer is a man who operates a printing press.
23:20 < phogg> justanotheruser: But seriously, there can be a lot of reasons. Most likely the driver doesn't fully understand your exact model. You might try looking for an updated one.
23:21 < ayecee> could be the printer has limited memory for complex images
23:21 < justanotheruser> phogg: well it works, just randomly will stop working and I have to "resume" it
23:21 < ayecee> oh, that kind of pause
23:21 < phogg> justanotheruser: yes, that could be a bug where some command is being sent that is wrong to send at that time.
23:21 < justanotheruser> maybe I should set up an incron job that checks whether it's paused an unpauses it :p
23:22 < ayecee> cronjobs all the way down
23:22 < phogg> justanotheruser: that would be a quick and dirty work around. If that satisfies you, go for it.
23:22 < justanotheruser> it's not technological debt, it's technological leverage
23:22 < justanotheruser> ;)
23:23 < phogg> one day I'm going to make my own Linux distribution and on that distro I will replace all references to 'cron' with 'chron', then there will be peace.
23:23 < bls> justanotheruser: better a technological hammer than a literal one
23:23 < justanotheruser> phogg: why?
23:24 < bls> don't you mean pax?
23:24 < phogg> justanotheruser: because chron is a more correct abbreviation
23:24 < bls> crap, you'd have to rename that too
23:24 < phogg> bls: No! Tar forever!
23:24 < djph> phogg: on that day, I will slap you
23:24 < justanotheruser> did you know there's an alternative to "man" called "woman"?
23:25 < phogg> Changing things that don't need changing to the benefit of no one. Yeah, that's why I have to do it in my own sandbox.
23:25 < bls> our liturgy must be verum
23:25 < bls> justanotheruser: there's also one called bro
23:26 < justanotheruser> thats the one with only examples right?
23:26  * jml2 smells bromance
23:26 < phogg> justanotheruser: What does it do? L
23:26 < justanotheruser> phogg: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/woman.html
23:27 < bls> not sure, never used the command, just remember the tag line of something like "The Man won't help you out, but your bro will"
23:27 < revel> Ooh, Alpine 3.8 is out.
23:27 < jml2> xubuntu-core just works.
23:27 < jml2> i have to install it native... it's great
23:30 < ||JD||> justanotheruser: cups sucks horse balls. Actually I can't believe it hasn't been replaced yet, Linux deserves a way better printing system than that
23:30 < justanotheruser> write one please
23:30 < ||JD||> I wish I had the time and the knowledge
23:30 < jml2> huh? who says cups is bad? cups is easy peasy gimme a break
23:30 < lupine> lennart will get around to it
23:31 < lupine> give him time
23:31 < jml2> cups is powerful
23:31 < jml2> it's like sudo on paper
23:31 < ||JD||> lupine: he will probably include it in systemd
23:31 < lupine> reasonable place for it
23:31 < bls> when I did have to deal with printing, I got where I'd just curl PS/PDF docs to the thing's IPP port and be done
23:31 < revel> Or maybe not.
23:32 < bls> to avoid cups/foomatic/gutenprint/etc
23:32 < jml2> ||JD||, I am lennart, why you keep messin with me?
23:32 < jml2> systemd is king
23:33 < v4ng0gh> Hello. I manage some development server and would like to administer the users of these servers in a central and better way. What are the best practices?
23:33 < jml2> these cups noobs dont know how to setup cups, I bet none of you ever looked at the lpadmin command before .. that's where there is the sudo-like powers for printing
23:33 < jml2> but naaahhh you blame systemd. hmmpmhm!! pathetic!
23:34 < lupine> i rarely have to go to the pretty web interface
23:34 < phogg> v4ng0gh: ldap
23:34 < lupine> mostly gnome does everything for me
23:34 < jml2> v4ng0gh, touch /etc/nologin   , then security harden your system
23:34 < jml2> v4ng0gh, (then hook your net cable and run any security updates)
23:34 < bls> v4ng0gh: second the recommendation to centralize your auth and ACLs with LDAP
23:35 < pankaj> What is the easiest way to copy and paste text across tty's in linux?
23:35 < phogg> v4ng0gh: 389ds can give you a lot without a huge amount of effort, with openldap you can get very fine control. LDAP and maybe Kerberos and you're LANing like the pros.
23:35 < jml2> pankaj, ?
23:35 < bls> pankaj: don't
23:35 < jml2> pankaj, why across when you can use tmux or screen?
23:35 < pankaj> jml2: Like shortcut keys for copying and pasting
23:35 < pankaj> jml2: What is the use of this 'screen'?
23:35 < jml2> pankaj, there's shortcuts into tmux and screen for this --- you can also use gpm on plain text terminals (gpm is mouse-driven support for plain term -- you can copy and paste with it)
23:36 < bls> pankaj: why don't you have X running?
23:36 < jml2> pankaj, screen or tmux -- both do the same multiplexing of terminals
23:36 < phogg> v4ng0gh: microsoft's ActiveDirectory is at its core "just" an LDAP server, Kerberos authentication, a bunch of convention and some ancillary services (name resolution, file transfer, etc). The only credible alternative to a stack like this might be NIS+, but ew.
23:36 < pankaj> bls: I have X running but I use only when I need. Terminal is reliable for me.
23:37 < v4ng0gh> jml2, phogg, bls thanks so much
23:37 < phogg> v4ng0gh: you can do it a lot of ways. More than you can imagine. Start with LDAP, though.
23:37 < bls> so you're trying to overcome an artificial handicap you've created for yourself?
23:37 < bls> heh, still get a chuckle at some of the BSD NIS code that calls it yeller piss
23:38 < jml2> bls, I try to type on my keyboard with my impersonating left acting like my right hand.. yes I do call that a handicap :P
23:38 < v4ng0gh> phogg, I want to run all in linux, openldap.org It's a start?
23:38 < phogg> pankaj: you could always run emacs and then open your terminal emulator within emacs. That way you can copy and paste the emacs way.
23:38 < pankaj> phogg: OK.
23:39 < bls> v4ng0gh: yes, either openldap or samba can provide it
23:39 < phogg> v4ng0gh: You could start there, but I recommend more research first. How much time do you want to spend designing this vs. just installing and using it? If you want more of the latter look for something that gives you a pre-rolled solution. Distribution packages are a start.
23:39 < jml2> bls, you like to chuckle and piss? is that part of your opensource contributions?
23:39 < phogg> v4ng0gh: and of course everything I'm suggesting runs on Linux. What does not? (Don't answer that).
23:39 < v4ng0gh> lol
23:42 < v4ng0gh> phogg, I have time to design this. I'll search first. I want to create something elegant, stable and organized
23:42 < jml2> fwiw samba v.4 has more support for connecting to Windows AD... but he wasnts linux-only so something like winbind would not be a primary choice
23:43 < v4ng0gh> bls, I will start with openldap
23:43 < jml2> ldap has been around for a very long time, but it's documentation for starters is not entirely intuitive...(there's descriptions of old format mingling with the new format)
23:43 < jml2> ./(openldap per say)
23:43 < jml2> if your distro does a bad job setting it up, then you're better starting the openldap database from scratch..
23:43 < phogg> v4ng0gh: hint, start with https://www.freeipa.org/
23:45 < phogg> v4ng0gh: it's intended for use with Fedora, but is runnable elsewhere. This is a complete stack and not just pieces you have to knit together yourself.
23:45 < sldetracking> touch boobs
23:45 < sldetracking> touch: cannot touch 'boobs': Permission denied
23:45 < sldetracking> sudo touch boobs
23:46 < bls> is freeipa finally a full ipa? or have they completely given up on the audit part?
23:46 < phogg> bls: I don't track it that closely, but I gather it's still somewhere between started and complete.
23:47 < phogg> sldetracking: you could still get a denied message; root doesn't necessarily have write access to everything
23:48 < kriztmark> chmod -x
23:48 < kriztmark> rm -rf /wherefileis/
23:48 < bls> had a coworker pushing it a couple years back because we needed an auditing system, only it didn't provide auditing and the roadmap didn't really have anything concrete. they appear to no longer mention it
23:48 < jml2> no need for -r if its just a file
23:49 < kriztmark> if its ln then u might want to have the +r
23:49 < jml2> bls, that co-worder was fired
23:50 < phogg> bls: it's still in their about page somewhere
23:50 < bls> yeah: Audit (this component is deferred)...For now we decided not to disperse our energy and work more on improving the identity and authentication aspects of the system.
23:50 < phogg> bls: I don't know that features which aren't needed for "make things work" are going to get done any time soon. It would probably take an interested corporate sponsor.
23:51 < phogg> aka someone who actually *needs* this itch scratched is going to have to scratch it.
23:54 < jml2> dumb bloggers calling the kvm support on chromeos calling it "Native Linux" support.  gimme a break...
23:56 < phogg> chromeos is all native linux
23:56 < phogg> now if only someone would provide a rootless X server, xming style
23:57 < bls> like xenocara?
23:58 < jml2> those are the same bloggers who bait health articles on their bloggings
23:58 < jml2> click bait
--- Log closed Fri May 11 00:00:16 2018