--- Log opened Fri May 11 00:00:16 2018
00:00 < jml2> i suppose once nvidia-driver support for wayland is 100%, then at that time Wayland will be fully ready https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wayland_features#Nvidia_driver_support  XD
00:01 < phogg> jml2: unlikely. there are still many issues
00:01 < FreeFull> I wonder how well PRIME works with Wayland
00:02 < xamithan> Try it and find out
00:02 < bls> who knew just saying the way something solved problems was dumb so you'll write a replacement wasn't enough to actually solve said problems
00:02 < phogg> jml2: this is my favorite problem at the moment https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1367666
00:04 < phogg> there's an obvious answer but it's (apparently?) not easy to do: have a minimal WM that's so tiny and correct it functionally can't crash, then have it launch and respawn the "real" WM. Is this starting to sound familiar?
00:04 < phogg> of course wayland didn't really anticipate this scenario
00:10 < bls> the approach seemed to be to write all the cool/shiny composition stuff and expect all the complicated window/process/display management to just sort itself out
00:11 < phogg> bls: it's naive to expect to replace 30 years of engineering in any short amount of time
00:11 < BCMM> phogg: wait, Gnome integrated their desktop shell in to the compositor, not just their WM?
00:11 < phogg> bls: the focus of wayland is, I think, a good one: doing one thing well, which is pushing pixels
00:12 < phogg> BCMM: mutter is still there, but the outer compositor is the application that is launched by the wayland server and will cause an exit if it dies
00:13 < phogg> BCMM: gnome-shell appears to be the outer app here since that bug reports that a gnome-shell crash takes down the display server
00:15 < phogg> I do recommend reading the bug's comments.
00:17 < v4ng0gh> Thanks phogg and jml2 !
00:18 < phogg> the thing that I find hilarious is that they have to allow for a scenario in which gnome-shell crashes. If a WM *ever* crashes it's no good to me.
00:18 < bls> just need a .unit for the WM to restart it on crash :P
00:19 < bls> was a nice "feature" of X that you could switch WMs on the fly though
00:19 < phogg> bls: doesn't help; once the compositor dies even if wayland and the compositor restart it's too late. All running wayland clients will have exited already
00:20 < phogg> in other words if your WM crashes all windows go poof
00:20 < quul> can you restart wm's using composite extension?
00:21 < phogg> quul: here I use WM as a short hand, what I mean is the compositor
00:21 < phogg> on wayland it's the same thing
00:21 < quul> i'm speaking of specifically an xorg compositing WM
00:21 < phogg> quul: totally unrelated, X doesn't have this problem
00:21 < quul> so thats a yes?
00:22 < phogg> quul: you could kill or spawn a WM from any X client. So yes, but xterm could also do that.
00:25 < phogg> I'm in a new distro mood. What should I try next?
00:25 < quul> i hear good things about fedora 27
00:28 < triceratux> https://spins.fedoraproject.org/en/lxqt/
00:31 < FreeFull> phogg: You should look at Arcan
00:32 < FreeFull> https://arcan-fe.com/2017/12/24/crash-resilient-wayland-compositing/
00:34 < FreeFull> Turns out you can be crash resilient after all
00:34 < drakonan> so...
00:35 < quul> ???
00:36 < drakonan> sorry i had a brain fart mid sentence im trying to figure out if i should max out the ram on my computer home that is using ddr3 ... what to do exactly
00:36 < drakonan> i want a small pfsense router...
00:36 < drakonan> and my box at home is getting pretty old so i probably dont need to be spending anymore cash on it
00:37 < drakonan> but im not sure yet that i need a new pc...
00:37 < FreeFull> If it's for a router then it might not need that much ram
00:37 < drakonan> its got 6gb right now which is kind of low for gaming rig / virtual server
00:38 < bls> my router only has 1G RAM
00:39 < drakonan> well ive toyed with the idea of buying a super cheap computer as well...
00:40 < bls> to use as a router?
00:40 < energizer> I have a trojan 'minerd' on a server. How can I find out how it got there?
00:40 < drakonan> just had to spend anymore cash on "old" when i've already got "plenty" of old but right now it's worth it as a simple at home computer until it craps out finally... it doesn't have sata iii or pcie 3 or ddr4... max ram is only 24gb anyway...
00:40 < lupine> energizer: check your off-machine logs
00:40 < energizer> lupine: which logs
00:41 < lupine> the logs you set up when you first provisioned the machine
00:41 < lupine> you know, the ones that go to a central logging host and so are not amenable to tampering on the compromised machine
00:41 < drakonan> bls: yeah right now they only thing i really want i dont have is a router... id kind of like a virtual server but right now dont really have any idea what i'd do with it... maybe a plex server, maybe a lab for vsphere would be nice but that's money
00:41 < drakonan> and really i dont like the idea that i have a cpu without hardware spectre / meltdown protection im prob being a little tinfoil hat but
00:41 < drakonan> if im going to pay the same price per gb for ram id rather buy ddr4
00:42 < energizer> lupine: yes i'm neglectful, but i'm asking which logfile would hold the kind of information that would be helpful now
00:42 < bls> energizer: take it offline, hook the disk up to a different system or boot rescue media, comb through logs, check package file fingerprints if your distro supports them
00:42 < bls> energizer: run rkhunter
00:43 < lupine> rkhunter is good, just hunting through all the logs for `minerd` is also ok
00:43 < lupine> I don't think it matters *how* though, particularly
00:43 < lupine> is the machine running any services in particular, like wordpress, etc?
00:43 < energizer> no
00:44 < bls> so you've got password auth on for root?
00:44 < energizer> no
00:44 < drakonan> lupine, kind of... was hosting my personal web page but i think its down right now...
00:44 < drakonan> but that wasn't even anything special just a simple page for a resume link :)
00:44 < drakonan> and a forwarder email
00:44 < lupine> served by...?
00:44 < drakonan> that computer
00:45 < lupine> forget it
00:45 < drakonan> well cloudflare is actually the front end for it
00:46 < drakonan> so in theory it would only grab the contents and proxy it for the end user
00:46 < drakonan> so in theory id hope it would catch most of the crap but ultimately if someone has enough time and money
00:46 < drakonan> and intent
00:50 < Henry151> i am playing
00:50 < Henry151> it is really fun
00:51 < Henry151> i'm turning on and off the lights on my keyboard by doing "echo 1 > /sys/class/leds/input0\:\:numlock/brightness" and "echo 0 > /sys/class/leds/input0\:\:numlock/brightness"
00:52 < Henry151> well first i was actually opening the file with vim and then editing the 0 to a 1 and closing it
00:52 < Henry151> and now i am just doing the echo thing
00:52 < Henry151> it is great
00:53 < Henry151> but then by accident, I did "echo 0 > /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness" and everything went dark
00:54 < FreeFull> Henry151: Hit up, home, ctrl-right twice, backspace, type some number and press enter
00:54 < Henry151> lol
00:54 < FreeFull> Assuming you haven't tried to type something else yet =P
00:55 < Henry151> i hit up, hit the right key and counted in my head, "e, c, h, o, space, " and typed "101" and then hit enter
00:55 < FreeFull> Or you could use the screen backlight control on your keyboard if you have that configured =P
00:55 < Henry151> i do not
00:55 < Henry151> but i was just having fun with it
00:55 < ||JD||> haxr
00:56 < Henry151> lol
00:56 < ||JD||> what keyboard is it?
01:01 < morenoh149> how do you uninstall something installed via an automated install script?
01:02 < bls> morenoh149: you don't
01:02 < well_laid_lawn> check the script to see if it has an uninstall option
01:02 < bls> morenoh149: unless the install script comes with an uninstall script
01:11 < mawk> my bouncer is back
01:11 < mawk> but not my beloved data
01:12 < bls> 1 copy of data = ambivalence, 2 copies = like, 3 copies = love
01:12 < mawk> lol
01:12 < mawk> and zero ?
01:12 < bls> foreveralone
01:15 < mawk> they're waiting for a response from me
01:15 < mawk> either destroy the data or destroy the data
01:15 < mawk> until I respond my data is still philosophically present
01:17 < xamithan> what?
01:17 < nullifidian> anyone knows how to build gnu coreutils with debug symbols?
01:17 < mawk> what what
01:18 < bls> nullifidian: doesn't it use autoconf? should be able to replace the CFLAGS with just -g
01:18 < nullifidian> bls that's it? I kinda difted away from autoconf stuff...
01:19 < bls> might need/want a glibc with debug symbols as well
01:19 < mawk> you can all blame my CS teacher for autoconf
01:21 < bls> nullifidian: not sure if coreutils has any other special magic required, but that's the approach I take when I need to do it elsewhere
01:21 < mawk> also you often have flags for ./configure
01:21 < mawk> like --enable-debug
01:21 < mawk> or --with-debug
01:22 < bls> yeah, which would be even better, because that'd hopefully prevent anything from removing the -g or forcing -O back on
01:23 < nullifidian> enable debug didn't work, I tried it first
01:24 < nullifidian> I kinda hacked my way through -- I found debug=false in config.status file. It said I can execute it to restore configuration. I changed false to true, and it worked (at first glance)
01:34 < compdoc> Been setting up my first samba4 ad controller. this is pretty amazing
01:37 < bls> it's pretty nice. some times I feel like it's a better lightweight AD replacement than CIFS/SMB server
01:37 < stevendale> Hey ^w^
01:37 < stevendale> Brand new battery for my Acer laptop just arrived
01:37 < stevendale> :3
01:39 < stevendale> Help
01:39 < stevendale> How do I dispose of my old one
01:39 < stevendale> Do I just chuck it in the waste bin for landfill
01:40 < ananke> stevendale: how is this relevant to linux? contact your local waste management authorities
01:40 < bls> do you not have an electronics store that's required to accept it for recycling?
01:40 < stevendale> I don't have any of those ananke
01:40 < stevendale> None at all bls
01:40 < quul> what happens if you put it in the microwave
01:40 < bls> stevendale: then ask ##hardware
01:41 < stevendale> quul Do I look stupid?
01:41 < ananke> quul: damn, that was a good attempt. we need something more subtle next time
01:43 < djph> stevendale: you google for a waste recycler.
01:44 < stevendale> I'll just put it in my bin
01:44 < stevendale> o3o
01:44 < solidfox> wc -l Solidfox's-Life
01:44 < solidfox> Error: unexpected EOF
01:44 < solidfox> lol
01:45 < djph> solidfox: >
01:45 < quul> why even ask if you're not going to bother trying the world renowned microwave recharge trick
01:45 < solidfox> djph, what is > for
01:46 < djph> you've an unclosed quote.  bash is still waiting for you to close it.
01:46 < solidfox> djph, oh lol you're right
01:46 < djph> :D
01:56 < MarkusDB1> Looking for something like munin, nagios, librenms or similar, that has great cli-views.
01:58 < supernov1h> err, any idea what could use a uSD card to become 'read-only' when it has no physical latch on it or anything like that? I can't even modify the partition table...
01:58 < djph> stevendale: remount-ro, perhaps
01:58 < djph> supernov1h: ^
01:59 < ananke> supernov1h: damaged filesystem
01:59 < justsomeguy> supernov1h: That can be done on my laptop by changing a setting in UEFI firmware. Just another thing to check.
01:59 < justsomeguy> But most likely a damaged FS.
02:00 < supernov1h> it shows this way on four different computers including two embedded devices and a windows box
02:02 < justsomeguy> What happens when you repartition and reformat?
02:03 < justsomeguy> (Obviously, copy your data off before doing this.)
02:21 < nekoseam> Openbox hasn't been updated since 2015. The creator has said that from his point of view it's a completed project and will only get updated for compatability
02:56 < qrvpzvb> does anybody else use transmission (torrent client)?
02:56 < ayecee> no, you are the first
02:57 < qrvpzvb> wow
02:57 < ayecee> ikr
02:57 < qrvpzvb> how about transmission-daemon
02:58 < ayecee> also first
02:58 < phinxy> I would watch a movie right now if the compiler didnt balls out all my CPU cores
02:58 < Qatz> Even the people who wrote program have never used it man
02:58 < ayecee> well whose fault is that
02:59 < danieldg> phinxy: 'nice' exists for a reason, you know
03:03 < qrvpzvb> so in any case, I wish transmission-daemon would have kind of support for users, like each user would have a their own list of torrents
03:05 < ayecee> i don't think so
03:05 < ayecee> ah. yeah, i wish that too.
03:06 < ayecee> one transmission daemon serving multiple users would be pretty cool.
03:08 < qrvpzvb> hey, I thought you haven't used it before!
03:09 < ayecee> i haven't! you're the first.
03:11 < phinxy> A stupid buildscript downloads sources over and over, not letting me change the source
03:11 < phinxy> can i lock a file or should the buildscript be edited?
03:12 < danieldg> phinxy: run the buildscript without network access
03:17 < qrvpzvb> I was thinking then of running separate transmission for each user and then have a reverse proxy to show the correct instance
03:25 < Loshki> phinxy: the buildscript should be edited to provide a new option
03:32 < mawk> std::any
03:32 < mawk> what's a use for that
03:32 < mawk> it doesn't look terribly useful
03:33 < mawk> it's like void * combined with std::dynamic_cast but for any object, not just those having a virtual base class
03:34 < toothe> does System76 have an IRC channel?
03:39 < toothe> I am using the Gnome theme from Pop_OS. I freaking love it.
03:39 < toothe> But the Title bar is kinda large.
03:39 < toothe> even the slim-theme. Is there a way to reduce its size even more?
03:41 < xamithan> What is a title bar
03:42 < xamithan> You could probably change the CSS in the theme to change whatever you want
03:43 < jml2> xamithan, it's all about the beer
03:43  * jml2 drinks mo booze
03:43 < xamithan> linux and booze do not mix
03:43 < jml2> xamithan, *burrrrppppp*
03:43 < jml2> xamithan, what?
03:44 < xamithan> You might use the wrong command and suicidelinux would erase your system
03:45 < jml2> who else loves booze at the bar? I do.. I like title bars
03:45 < ayecee> i see what you did there
03:45 < theorem> jml2: nice one
03:46 < jml2> theorem, =DD
03:46 < theorem> jml2: where does the austrnaught hang out on the keyboard ?
03:46 < theorem> woah, spelling ..
03:46 < jml2> tehehe
03:46 < theorem> astronaut
03:46 < theorem> jml2: the space bar
03:46 < ayecee> worst. timing. ever.
03:47  * theorem bows
03:47  * djvb groans.
03:47 < jml2> theorem, as*tronauts are south of my canadian border :p
03:48  * jml2 juggles another bottle
03:48  * jml2 gives tux herring-booze
03:51 < theorem> nice
03:54 < djvb> I resurrected an old PC and installed arch on it, but I can't decide what to do with it.
03:55 < markasoftware> ipfs node
03:55 < jml2> djvb, turn it into a pulseaudio relay for legacy speaker systems :ppp
03:55 < Rexy> Would anyone know how to enable a efi partition? I've reinstalled grub on my drive like 10 times and it wont detect grub at all
03:55 < theorem> djvb: tor router ?
03:55 < theorem> djvb: coin miner ?
03:55 < jml2> djvb, its what i do for old stereo systems --- what goes out  my pc speaker goes out on my classical stereo speakers
03:56 < Rexy> I'm pulling my hair out here. I can boot from a livecd fine but it wont detect my EFI file for grub and manjaro
03:56 < theorem> djvb: file server?
03:56 < djvb> whoa -- that's 3 things I hadn't thought of right off the bat!
03:56 < markasoftware> djvb: try to compile gentoo experimental before any packages are updated
03:57 < theorem> djvb: I don't know if you're sarcastic ..
03:57 < djvb> No, actually I wasn't being sarcastic
03:57 < theorem> ok, cool :)
03:57 < Rexy> djvb: taking ideas for what to use a spare box for?
03:58 < theorem> there are more for sure ...
03:58 < djvb> Yeah, exactly.
03:58 < theorem> djvb: private torrent server ?
03:58 < fendur> rain shield. place it in the open window when it rains, and the rain will mostly not get in.
03:58 < Rexy> Having your own private git repos are fun
03:58 < Rexy> Good for backups aswell
03:58 < djvb> fendur: Ha!
03:58 < theorem> djvb: have fun with a VM farm
03:58 < fendur> djvb: thank you for the laugh.
03:58 < theorem> djvb: or create containers, docker instances
03:59 < markasoftware> solve the collatz conjecture
03:59 < Rexy> theorem: I just started using docker images the other day for hosting a game server. Man are they ever amazing
03:59 < theorem> djvb: play with network routing and intercept packets, decrypt live SSL sessions, etc ..
03:59 < theorem> MITM attacks.
03:59 < theorem> Rexy: quite nice, right ?
04:00 < theorem> Rexy: AWS does a great job with them to, check out Fargate
04:00 < Rexy> I don't think I'm at that point yet to touch AWS,
04:00 < theorem> djvb: you also have Kubernetes
04:00 < djvb> Don't know much about docker instances...
04:00 < theorem> djvb: or, fun with time series databases, like InfluxDB
04:01 < Rexy> I've just been using them for databases on my laptop for a bit. Super handy to spin up or down
04:01 < theorem> djvb: and loads of fun visualizing things with the TICK stack, just add Grafana to the mix
04:02 < theorem> djvb: also , give smokeping a try to see if your network ever actually dies.  you might be surprised at how many drop you see.
04:02 < theorem> *drops
04:02 < theorem> djvb: if you want to play with Orchestration across a couple mahines, try Salt Stack
04:03 < theorem> djvb: but using usernames and passwords across machines would probably be better, so check out NIS or Kerberos.
04:03 < Rexy> How would one go about resetting their efi partitions? I literally mounted it and deleted my Microsoft efi partition. It still shows in the efi boot loader
04:03 < djvb> Never heard of Salt Stack before...
04:04 < theorem> djvb: if you're feeling inventive, hook that into your Wifi router and authenticate with user credentials -- check out OpenWRT to hack the router.
04:04 < theorem> djvb: same arena as Puppet, Chef , and Ansible.
04:04 < Rexy> efibootmgr shows Windows Boot Manager despite mounting my EFI partition and using `rm -rf` on the folder
04:04 < texla> Installed Mageia 6 from a purched install dvd to a 32 gb usb san disc drive..o/s boot to required password login...program rejects all known passwords..Is there a fix
04:05 < jml2> Rexy, efi partition is not a Windows standard, is an open standard, and it is needed for UEFI to work properly
04:05 < theorem> djvb: anything strike your fancy ?
04:06 < Rexy> jml2: Yeah I understand that, however I still have a grub folder in there. It won't recognize it at all
04:06 < jml2> Rexy, you wiped out windows?
04:06 < jml2> Rexy, lol
04:06 < Rexy> jml2: I've reinstalled grub using `install-grub` and `update-grub` like 10 times
04:06 < djvb> theorem: Quite a lot! In a few minutes I went from having no good ideas to having a bunch.
04:06 < theorem> djvb: oh, and let's not forget a Plex media server.
04:07 < Rexy> jml2: I didnt even install windows to this drive. I literally unplugged the drive with it, and its still showing up
04:07 < jml2> Rexy, try mounting the efi partition to /boot/efi  or /boot/EFI (manually) then re-issult update-grub
04:07 < djvb> theorem: I had thought about the Plex server, but didn't think I'd make much use of it.
04:07 < Rexy> jml2: I used a live CD and got my OS to reboot back up through that. It's mounted and still wont work
04:07 < theorem> djvb: if you want to get into windows administration, check into NFS mounts,  sshfs, and Samba file serving
04:07 < jml2> Rexy, if you see windows showing up, it's because the efivars in the uefi chip has it stored -- you'll have to enter it on power-up and delete any database that has those vars..
04:08 < jml2> Rexy, (if update-grub cant fix it)
04:08 < theorem> djvb: if you have a couple drives laying around, setup a zfs pools
04:08 < jml2> texla, Mageia is a nice distro
04:08 < theorem> zfs is very interesting.
04:08 < fendur> djvb: did anyone say RAID NAS yet? protect that data!
04:08 < theorem> RAID sucks.
04:09 < theorem> ZFS ftw.
04:09 < ayecee> raid is for people who don't have backups
04:09 < theorem> raidz2
04:09 < fendur> well whatever. Protect that data somehow.
04:09 < jml2> texla, the installer on "post-boot" should of asked to create a new user
04:09 < jml2> texla, if it didn't then likely you are just booting up the installer again, instead of your actual system
04:09 < Rexy> jml2: Enter it on powerup? How would I go about doing that? Sorry IT aint my best stuff
04:10 < jml2> Rexy, you'll need to google that for your brand motherboard/laptop whatever you are using to check/reset your efi settings
04:10 < texla> jml2, I set up an extra user but it refuses that password also
04:10 < TheSov> any way to transfer a file securely from a config server to "on the fly" configured images?
04:10 < jml2> texla, then turn off your caps-lock on your keyboard... or do a rescue-login with Mageia's installer media
04:11 < jml2> texla, https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Rescue
04:11 < jml2> texla, you did something
04:11 < djvb> theorem: Oooh... I do have a few drives sitting around, in fact.
04:11 < theorem> djvb: yeah, you will be amazed how easy it is to use ZFS.
04:12 < gronke> I did a standard move command, but I am getting this error, why? "mv: inter-device move failed: ‘dataset_118_files’ to ‘/galaxy_share/database/files1/000/dataset_118_files’; unable to remove target: Directory not empty" Is there a recursive flag needed?
04:12 < jml2> theorem, ZFS is very resource demanding...
04:12 < theorem> djvb: check out the compression options, raidz and raidz2 ...  skip dedupe though
04:12 < toothe> I think I screwed up my boot process...
04:12 < jml2> theorem, its powerful but yet very demanding :))
04:12 < theorem> jml2: meh, probably not on that machine -- how old is it ?
04:12 < texla> jml2, I turned of numlock and got the same results
04:12 < toothe> I installed Pop_OS on sdb, and I have Mint on my sda. But now grub is screwed up.
04:12 < jml2> texla, so I can't help you if you can't remember your password kiddo
04:12 < Rexy> jml2: I'll give it a try but there was no option anywhere in the bios and google aint showing much
04:12 < Rexy> brb after reboot :x
04:12 < jml2> texla, try the rescue wiki link I provided
04:12 < toothe> it randomly boots up in a Fedora boot loader -- even though I haven't had fedora in months
04:12 < Rexy> \q
04:12 < toothe> I dunno what's happening.
04:12 < Rexy> \quit
04:13 < Rexy> ffs
04:13 < theorem> djvb: also, try forwrding X windows apps from one machine to the other
04:13 < jml2> Rexy, can't help you on that
04:13 < theorem> play with exporting environment variables
04:13 < theorem> export DISPLAY="1.2.3.4:0"
04:13 < theorem> ;-)
04:13 < jml2> theorem, x2go
04:13 < jml2> theorem, it runs under ssh, and is superior than X-over-ssh+vnc things
04:14 < theorem> huh, never tried it
04:14 < jml2> theorem, (uses nx protocol)
04:14 < theorem> does it handle X ?
04:14 < djvb> theorem: I was doing that over ssh with 'ssh -X otherbox' and then starting GUI apps from the command line
04:14 < tairikuookami> nx3 really
04:14 < jml2> yeah it handles X
04:14 < theorem> jml2: ok, might give it a go
04:14 < tairikuookami> (nx4 is different, and commercial)
04:14 < jml2> it starts X sessions --- it is actually easier to use than vnc or ssh+Xtunneled
04:14 < texla> jml2, Will do ..thanks for the info
04:14 < jml2> nxv3 forked if you wan tto be techgnical
04:15  * jml2 https://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php
04:15 < theorem> jml2: I don't know how much easier ssh -> host -> export DISPLAY -> run command could be
04:15 < jml2> theorem, that's 1990s :P ... x2go starts the session --- like rdp
04:15 < djvb> theorem: most basic apps (think calculator) worked fine but whenever I tried it with firefox it would hang
04:15 < theorem> jml2: so, it requires a server daemon to run ?
04:16 < jml2> theorem, it's basically install server, and install client on any platform(there's client binary for mac/linux/windows) -- and it's ready to be used
04:16 < jml2> theorem, that simple.. no commands
04:16 < tairikuookami> x2go is much nicer than vnc.
04:16 < theorem> right, that one dependency makes a difference
04:16 < theorem> vnc generally sucks.
04:16 < djvb> jml2: shows you about how long Ive been away from linux
04:17 < jml2> vnc was good back in its day, nx blows it out of the water
04:17 < theorem> nx != x2go ?
04:17 < tairikuookami> nx3 forked and became x2go
04:17 < jml2> x2go uses the nx protocol
04:17 < toothe> damn it!
04:17 < toothe> i just screwed up my boot sector
04:17 < theorem> got it
04:17 < toothe> badly
04:17 < tairikuookami> nx4 continued and grew a non-free license
04:18 < theorem> got it
04:18 < theorem> that reminds me
04:18 < theorem> office machines are Macs
04:18 < theorem> and there's a remote desktop feature there
04:18 < theorem> to do machine-to-machine
04:18 < jml2> nomachine.com << has very powerful features that x2go doesn't match of course...
04:18 < toothe> I just stupidly deleted my MBR
04:18 < toothe> Is there a wya to fix that?
04:18 < toothe> grub isn't working.
04:18 < theorem> it includes a bit of auto-discovery too
04:18 < toothe> My computer won't boot up.
04:18 < tairikuookami> if you want a commercial offering, opentext'd etx is nicer than nx4+
04:18 < bls> Screen Sharing.app is just vnc I believe
04:18 < jml2> but x2go is very good and is beyond what vnc can do
04:18 < theorem> the tool they want to sell is something like $80
04:18 < cutesona> scp abc.txt cde.txt efg.txt abc@214.32.32.222:/home   <—— i send 3 file to server?
04:19 < Rexy> jml2: Well no luck, I still get the windows "insert a boot medium to continue" screen. I dont even have windows on this drive
04:19 < ananke> cutesona: you tell us
04:19 < supernov1h> anyone know of a cypress driver for debian 8
04:19 < toothe> Anyone know how to redo an MBR with grub?
04:19 < toothe> on Linux Mint>?
04:19 < cutesona> ananke: ?
04:19 < jml2> Rexy, can you imgur.com paste a picture?
04:19 < xamithan> Maybe,  if the files exist and you have permissions and have a user named abc and can authenticate
04:19 < theorem> yeah, it's this : https://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/
04:19 < ananke> cutesona: !
04:19 < theorem> toothe: I generally use a bootable CD and cfdisk
04:20 < toothe> and do what?
04:20 < toothe> do you update-grub or the like?
04:20 < theorem> no, write MBR
04:20 < toothe> I don't follow?
04:20  * toothe is an idiot.
04:20 < theorem> ok, so you lost your mbr, or ?
04:20 < Rexy> jml2: Sorry it's the `Reboot and Select proper Boot device'
04:20 < toothe> yes...
04:20 < toothe> so, I get an error in grub starting up.
04:20 < theorem> ok, so you need a new one since things are not bootable now ?
04:20 < toothe> error: No such partition
04:20 < toothe> yes...
04:21 < toothe> it tries to boot off the disk, i think not UEFI.
04:21 < toothe> I hope I didn't lose all my data...
04:21 < theorem> the MBR points to a boot loader which points to the correct kernel to load.
04:21 < toothe> I'm not familiar with the two styles of booting.
04:21 < toothe> is that different from UEFI?
04:21 < theorem> toothe: like this ? : https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmagic/error-no-such-partition.html
04:22 < toothe> that's exactly what I see.
04:22 < theorem> ok, follow those instructions.
04:23 < toothe> wait, I have a pop-OS disk.
04:23 < toothe> theorem: I think this says I can rebuild the MBR
04:23 < Rexy> Hold on, how in the hell can Windows keep showing up despite me deleting the boot manager record in /boot/efi
04:23 < theorem> yes, you can.
04:23 < Rexy> wait. I'm on my laptop thats why. god damnit
04:24 < jml2> lol
04:25 < Rexy> So windows doesnt show up, but grub doesnt either
04:25 < jml2> "<Rexy> jml2: Sorry it's the `Reboot and Select proper Boot device'"
04:26 < jml2> you keep saying Windows keeps showing up, but at the same time it doesn't.
04:26 < jml2> contradictory!
04:26 < toothe> theorem: Is this not for Windows? I'm confused.
04:26 < Rexy> jml2: So in efibootmgr it has its record removed
04:26 < Rexy> Now I need to figure out how to add grub to the efibootmgr options
04:26 < jml2> some efi things are defective too :)))
04:27 < jml2> maybe he should upgrade his efi bios :)))
04:27 < Rexy> This entire issue happened because I just updated my bios
04:27 < jml2> :)))
04:27 < toothe> theorem: This is a Windows guide, no?
04:27 < toothe> I don't have Windows.
04:27 < jml2> maybe he should update his powersupply :)))
04:27  * jml2 "and his mouse" :)))
04:28 < tairikuookami> did you toggle between "bios boot" and "uefi boot" in your settings?
04:28 < Rexy> Yeah both are there
04:28 < toothe> Was that to me?
04:28 < Rexy> The issue appears to be that grub isn't adding itself to the EFI partition which will make it bootable
04:29 < tairikuookami> switching between "bios boot" and "uefi boot" will make your GPT/MBR boot loader cry and be unhappy.
04:30 < bls> did you boot the media you used to run grub-install in the same mode that the disk is expected to boot?
04:30 < Rexy> Wow I fixed it. Copied grub itself to the core efi file and that seems to fix it
04:30 < toothe> wait, are we both on the same issue?
04:30 < toothe> Rexy and I?
04:30 < Rexy> toothe: My partition shows up, but grub didnt appear to be top of the list for the efi boot manager thing
04:31 < toothe> ah...I screwed up my MBR and want to re-install grub.
04:31  * jml2 drinks more booze
04:31 < ayecee> as is tradition
04:31 < jml2> look at these boot-up screwup noobs XDXDXD
04:31 < Rexy> toothe: Get a live CD/usb, boot it up, and have at it
04:31 < toothe> Yes, I have done that.
04:31 < Rexy> jml2: Lol, I can follow instructions on google and all that. This was way out there
04:31 < bls> by default, most installers are going to detect which mode you used to boot and install grub for that method, so if you booted the install media in MBR mode, it's not going to install a UEFI capable bootloader
04:32 < bls> and vice-versa
04:32 < toothe> wait...wtf?
04:32 < puff> Good evening.  I have a laptop running xubuntu 16.04 LTS, connected via USB cable to an HP photosmart 6250.  I'm trying to scan a document with Simple Scan, which has worked in the past, but it says "Failed to scan" and "Unable to connect to scanner".
04:32 < toothe> my partition table is screwe dup?????
04:32 < ayecee> moar question marks
04:33 < toothe> i just lost all my data...
04:33 < Rexy> I verified that I was in efi mode, and then ran `install-grub` about 10 different times. It didnt seem to alter the EFI bootx64.efi file itself
04:33 < jml2> bootx64.efi is just a fallback for standard uefi
04:33 < jml2> uefi will even look for this file on macintoshes
04:33 < puff> I've checked the USB cable, unplugged and replugged, turned the scanner on and off.  The scanner is missing the black ink cartridge and the display built into th e scannner says "Ink Cartridge Problem" and "One or more Cartridges appear to be missing or damaged.  Install or replace the affected cartridges."  There doesn't seem to be any button to cancel or get past that.  I don't know if that's what's interfering, but google is turning
04:33 < puff> up similar complaints.
04:34 < jml2> renaming your grub.efi to bootx64.efi is fine if that gets things fixed
04:34 < jml2> (and having it in the proper location as well)
04:34 < Rexy> jml2: The thing is that I had grubx64.efi in there, and removed bootx64.efi itself. It wouldnt boot until I eventually copied the grub one there
04:35 < Rexy> I mean copied the grub to bootx64.efi
04:43 < puff> Good evening.  I have ubuntu 16.04 LTS and an hp photosmart 6520 all-in-one. I've used the 6520 before for printing and scanning, but right now it lacks a black ink cartridge, and Simple Scan is saying it can't connect to the scanner.  Anyone know of a workaround for this?
04:49 < epicmetal> puff: bump to 18.04?
04:51 < jml2> toothe, you didn't loose all your data, you lost all your teeth!! :))))
04:52 < jim> I dunno if that'd help him with the printer specifically
05:19 < toothe> Remind me, Linux Mint is behind Ubuntu, no?
05:20 < rascul> or debian
05:21 < toothe> pardon?
05:21  * toothe is upset
05:21 < toothe> ruined my computer.
05:22 < first-order> Both.
05:23 < first-order> Mainline Mint is pulled from Ubuntu LTS, but they also have a spin pulled from Debian Testing.
05:23 < toothe> right
05:23 < toothe> but its older, no?
05:23 < toothe> like, meaning,t eh packages are older
05:23 < toothe> am I mistaken?
05:24 < first-order> I would guess there wouldn't be a huge gap between the two considering LMDE is technically based on the upcoming Debian Buster (Testing).
05:24 < rascul> ubuntu is based on sid
05:25 < first-order> If LMDE were based on Debian Stable (Stretch), then it would technically be older.
05:25 < rascul> lts used to be based on testing but they're on sid as of a few years now
05:25 < rascul> looks like lmde is based on debian jessie
05:25 < first-order> I thought Mint traditionally based LMDE on the Testing branch.
05:26 < jim> older stuff could still work just fine :) in fact, even better, since it's well tested and maintained
05:26 < first-order> Eg. Stretch works fine in 99.9% of desktop usage cases.
05:26 < rascul> oh, i got mixed up, all ubuntu is on sid now but lts used to be on testing
05:27 < jim> so ubuntu has to do the work of fixing the packages that debian is gonna do anyway
05:27 < rascul> current mint is from ubuntu xenial
05:27 < first-order> If not better than Ubuntu TO A DEGREE.
05:27 < first-order> *caps error
05:27 < rascul> jim if they even notice something needs fixing
05:27 < toothe> I love CInammon
05:27 < toothe> i always end up going back
05:27 < jim> rascal, *nod*
05:28 < toothe> And that's the only reason I use Mint. I don't want to install Ubuntu, then Cinnamon and have left-over cruft installed.
05:28 < first-order> rascul, And IIRC Debian's generally on top of backporting bugfixes in.
05:28 < rascul> yeah, debian is usually pretty good
05:28 < toothe> Debian = old
05:28 < toothe> i don't want that
05:28 < rascul> debian stable = old
05:28 < jim> first-order, one time, I had a ubuntu and a debian installed, and I noticed that the debian executables were running a lot faster
05:28 < toothe> I run a desktop, not a server.
05:29 < rascul> debian sid = not old
05:29 < first-order> Debian Stable + backports = middle-ground.
05:29 < toothe> but, i would prefer just using the latest and greatest
05:29 < toothe> which is why I'm curious which is newer, Ubuntu or Mint.
05:29 < toothe> in terms of packages.
05:29 < rascul> well current mint is based on 2 year old ubuntu
05:29 < toothe> 18.3.
05:30 < rascul> https://linuxmint.com/download_all.php
05:30  * first-order runs the backports repo in his Stretch installation and doesn't really have any major issues with old packages.
05:30 < first-order> If anything, it runs a bit better than Arch would.
05:30 < rascul> backports is usually good
05:31 < toothe> okay...so Ubuntu is more up to date - that's my conclusion.
05:31 < jim> and, you can backport packages yourself, usually
05:31 < toothe> i don't wanna do all that. I just want my system to work.
05:32 < first-order> Trust me, you'll have less trouble running Debian Stable with Backports, than you'll ever have with Arch or even Fedora.
05:32 < jim> toothe, or really, debian sid is
05:32 < toothe> but, that requires a lot of configuration.
05:32 < toothe> a lot lot lot of custom work.
05:32 < jim> no doubt
05:32 < toothe> i don't wan thtat.
05:33 < toothe> I don't want that*
05:33 < stevendale> I use uTorrent 2.2.1
05:33 < first-order> Nope. I barely had to configure crap with Stretch, vs. Arch, in which the user configures just about everything manually.
05:34 < first-order> Trust me on this, coming from running Arch for a few years, you have it easy with Debian, or Ubuntu.
05:36 < first-order> CentOS and Fedora are a bit more difficult to pull off on the desktop than Debian and Ubuntu, and Arch is maxed-out difficulty as far as the whole lot of distros in question is concerned.
05:36 < stevendale> In all honesty, if you don't want to configure your system, but want it to just work, and Ubuntu & Linux Mint both don't work for you then you're probably better off (A) Getting a Mac or (B) Using Windows 10
05:36  * first-order genuinely tried to make a CentOS desktop work, but lack of available packages, even with third-party repos, killed that idea.
05:37 < stevendale> (As much as I hate to say it, Windows XP/7 are harder to use and configure than 10, due to drivers)
05:37 < Rave1> toothe,  so just go back and reinstall mint,dont screw around with things and it will just work
05:38 < stevendale> ^
05:38  * first-order is also one of the many in here that have been around the block a few times, but ultimately came back to Debian as well.
05:38 < stevendale> Adding a hundred repos like xorg-edgers isn't going to end well
05:39 < first-order> stevendale, Too bad RPM distros by design kinda require a bunch of extra repos to have any hope in hell of being usable.... *cough*CentOS*cough*
05:40 < toothe> Rave1: will just work?
05:40 < rascul> first-order have you tried opensuse?
05:41 < first-order> That's the main distro I haven't tried yet.
05:41 < stevendale> Ew, SUSE signed a contract with Microsoft
05:41 < first-order> The others are Slack, Gentoo, and LFS.
05:41 < first-order> And I have no intention whatsoever of touching LFS with a 39.5' pole.
05:42 < first-order> I may be willing and able to dig under the hood a bit, but I'm still sane.
05:42 < Rave1> toothe  what issues have you had that you manage to destroy your MBR? why would you screw with that on a working system?
05:42 < rascul> lfs is meant for learning, not any sort of normal usage
05:43 < rascul> if you've been linuxing for a long time, you probably already know a good bit of what you could learn from lfs
05:43 < first-order> If I wanted to attempt something like that, Gentoo's a tad easier to deal with than LFS due to having some form of package management.
05:43 < rascul> gentoo and lfs aren't anything alike
05:44 < first-order> I thought it was pretty much LFS with a nice package manager to a point.
05:44 < rascul> no
05:44 < stevendale> Actually yes it is rascul
05:44 < rascul> it's a source based distro, but lfs isn't even a distro
05:44 < stevendale> They both compile from source
05:44 < stevendale> Which is stupid
05:44 < rascul> lfs is a book which demonstrates how a distro can be put together
05:45 < rascul> gentoo is something that could have potentially come from lfs (it didn't, though)
05:45 < first-order> And Arch serves as the middle ground between Debian or Fedora, and Gentoo or Slack, IIRC.
05:45 < first-order> Built pretty much from scratch, but the base system is installed as precompiled binaries.
05:46 < rascul> arch is meh
05:46 < rcf> rascul: lfs is supposed to be for learning, but there's a disturbing number of bespoke embedded horrorshows put together by people who thought it was fine for production.
05:46 < stevendale> Debian > Fedora > Arch > Slackware > Gentoo > Ubuntu > Linux Mint > Mageia
05:46 < rascul> rcf indeed, and it's too bad that nobody smacked them for it
05:46 < U1RSU1lT> WFS > LFS
05:47  * first-order could run Arch if he wanted to, installed it enough times to where it's actually kinda easy.
05:47 < stevendale> Hun
05:47 < stevendale> When I am trying to sleep, I start installing Arch
05:47 < stevendale> And before the packages finish downloading on my ADSL2+, I am asleep
05:48 < first-order> Odd, as I thought one of the main advantages of having a primarily binary-based distro is the packages installed faster.
05:48 < stevendale> Nah it's my internet connection
05:48 < rascul> gotta download em first still
05:49 < jim> U1RSU1lT, maybe it would be,,, if it existed :)
05:49 < first-order> But no, for most average usage cases, Debian Stable with Backports, is fine.
05:49 < stevendale> Svet@ > jim > sauvin
05:49 < stevendale> :P
05:50  * rascul > *
05:50 < jim> yeah we like sveta too
05:50 < first-order> No real need for Ubuntu as realistically, at least for basic system admin, you're not really gaining much from running it.
05:50 < jim> better watch out though, she don't take no guff
05:50 < first-order> If anything, its default config hides most of the inner workings from the user.
05:51 < rascul> compared to debian, ubuntu provides a better install experience for the newbie and potentially real support
05:52 < rascul> i doubt many use the paid support option though
05:52 < stevendale> I can't decide
05:52 < rcf> FreeBSD's driver for one of the more awful realtek wireless chipsets I've used misconfigures the radio so badly it is basically a DoS attack. Much faster to build from source than use the binaries in that case....
05:52 < stevendale> Whether to play Warcraft III or Broodwar
05:52 < first-order> In general usage though, there isn't really much to gain.
05:52 < rascul> yeah
05:52 < jim> stevendale, play one then the other... or both at once
05:52 < stevendale> If Blizz makes Starcraft 3...
05:53 < stevendale> Will there be a fourth race
05:53 < first-order> It's kinda like Arch vs. Manjaro.
05:53 < stevendale> OwO
05:53 < rascul> last i checked, something like 2/3 of ubuntu's packages were straight from sid, the other 1/3 were either added by ubuntu or they patched debian's stuff
05:53 < first-order> Or Gentoo vs. Sabayon.
05:53  * stevendale visualizes
05:53 < rascul> it was a few years ago when i looked at that though
05:54 < first-order> (although supposedly Sabayon's a total wreck package management-wise)
05:54 < rascul> never used sabayon, i tend to not bother with derivatives
05:55 < first-order> As for Arch v. Manjaro, it's very much like Debian v. Ubuntu, they're basically the same thing with a few differences repo-wise.
05:55 < first-order> As far as basic admin tasks, little to no difference.
05:56 < first-order> Eg. for package management, both are either sudo pacman -S package or sudo apt install package.
06:05 < toothe> man, I had the perfect theme and setup.
06:05 < toothe> :(
06:05 < toothe> I might go back to Mint, screw this manual configuration.
06:09 < Two_Dogs> has mint offered 19.x yet?
06:10 < markasoftware> red star linux vs hannah montanah linux. Same kind of thing
06:22 < jim> Two_Dogs, why would they, it's not 2019 yet
06:24 < jim> Two_Dogs, I'm reasonably sure the 19 version number is associated with the year... I think it's that way on ubuntu as well
06:25 < Two_Dogs> jim: 19.x mint is built on ubuntu 18.04
06:26 < jim> oh, it is? ok, I wonder if you could provide a link?
06:27 < Two_Dogs> linuxmint.com ?
06:27 < Two_Dogs> or maybe org
06:27 < jim> well where did you read about mint 19.x being 18.04?
06:28 < jim> I mean, it looks reasonable to me and everything, could happen
06:29 < Two_Dogs> jim: mint follows ubuntu lts, so mint-18.x was based on ubuntu-16.04, and so on back to ??
06:30 < jim> so then mint 19.x should be ubuntu 17.something?
06:30 < Two_Dogs> no
06:30 < jim> so they changed what they're doing?
06:30 < Two_Dogs> i dont know what changed
06:31 < Rave1> mint only follows ubuntu LTS now
06:31 < jim> oops, be back in a bit
06:31 < jim> and, doesn't matter that much to me... I'm happy running debian :)
06:31 < Two_Dogs> you asked
06:32 < jim> yeah, that's true
06:32 < jim> it's just confusing to me about how their versioning works
06:32 < Two_Dogs> the confusing part is the names
06:33 < Two_Dogs> tara now i think
06:33 < Two_Dogs> ubuntu 18.04 is ?
06:33 < Two_Dogs> a??
06:34 < Rave1> beaver
06:34 < Rave1> bionic beaver LMAO
06:35 < Two_Dogs> what i found confusing was that they put out their new cinnamon to the world but did not put out 19.x at same time
06:36 < Two_Dogs> meaning the fedora user could be on the new shiny cinnamon while the mint user could not
06:36 < Two_Dogs> go beavers
06:38 < Rave1> cinnamon runs better on fedora than mint anyway
06:39 < Two_Dogs> i noticed new cinnamon was a bit more mem hog than the previous version
06:40 < Two_Dogs> on opensuse tumbleweed
06:41 < Rave1> could be  I only tried it on a fedora machine once last year .  never worked well for me on mint or debian
06:41 < Rave1> have not tried the new version. Not a fan
06:42 < Two_Dogs> i was trying to find something lighter than plasma
06:42 < well_laid_lawn> try a tiler
06:43 < Rave1> from what I have read cinnamon is heavier than plasma
06:43 < Two_Dogs> it is heavier now for sure
06:44 < Two_Dogs> not but much, still though, plasma is suppose to be the hog, although with akonadi stripped out i can boot into plasma at about 380meg
06:45 < quul> what is using so much ram?
06:45 < Rave1> I am not an eye candy guy any more  I had my day of all the compiz emerald  flash   now it is xfce or mate at the most  with no addons
06:46 < Two_Dogs> cinnamon-screensaver for one, its default install and not a light app
06:47 < Two_Dogs> i really just depend on the kde apps, the front end is not so important
06:48 < Rave1> and there are lots of good kde apps ,I do agree
06:48 < Two_Dogs> yeah, its all i can stand to use
06:49 < za1b1tsu_> Is there a distro that hits the sweet spot between ubuntu and arch regarding official package repository? Not allowing packages to get really old, but also not bleeding edge that requires updates so frequently?
06:49 < Rave1> fedora maybe
06:49 < Two_Dogs> za1b1tsu_: opensuse leap?
06:49 < Rave1> or that^^
06:50 < Two_Dogs> or the variant, argon i think its called, opensuse leap with the wild wild west repos
06:50 < Two_Dogs> argon might be fun za1b1tsu_
06:51 < Rave1> wild west repos sounds scary
06:51 < Two_Dogs> Rave1: they are an opt in
06:51 < za1b1tsu_> argon is between leap and tumbleweed Two_Dogs ?
06:51 < well_laid_lawn> I like void linux for that
06:51 < Two_Dogs> za1b1tsu_: yes, exactly
06:53 < za1b1tsu_> that sounds really good
06:53 < za1b1tsu_> when I hear about opensuse, I always heard good things, too bad is rarely mentiond
06:54 < Two_Dogs> opensuse flies under the wire for sure, its sort of a grownups distro
06:55 < Gigabitten> oh, yeah, it looks like I've stumbled into the right place. uh. http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5vg8FQFwcZ/ I tried doing boot repair and it didn't help, and I tried to change the default boot entry, and I tried to just change the boot order all normal like. when I run os-prober, I see Lubuntu right there, but I can't get grub to load.
06:55 < Gigabitten> kinda stuck here
06:55 < Gigabitten> mostly because I don't fully know what I'm doing
06:55 < Two_Dogs> za1b1tsu_: best part, app install via web portal, you cant be 1click
06:56 < Rave1> I used open suse for several years ,mostly to help a coworker that insisted on trying it, but I seem to have forgotten about it myself recently
06:56 < za1b1tsu_> Two_Dogs: ah, I'm a terminal junkie :D
06:57 < Two_Dogs> za1b1tsu_: well there are times you just want the app installed cause the app is what you need right there and then
06:57 < Two_Dogs> or zypper till your fingers bleed
06:59 < Rave1> zypper is the package manager now?
06:59 < Two_Dogs> fedora and opensuse are alot alike, too bad the rpms are not interchangeable
06:59 < za1b1tsu_> Two_Dogs: isn't opensuse, more user friendly though? At least that's what I heard, they wanted to do an ubuntu alternative
06:59 < Rave1> dont remember it being called that in the past
07:01 < s33r> what is zypper?
07:03 < Rave1> s33r,  suse package manager engine
07:04 < Rave1> command line tool  not engine
07:05 < s33r> thanks
07:07 < Two_Dogs> za1b1tsu_: i cant compare opensuse to ubuntu, they are worlds apart, i think they are also very user friendly
07:10 < Two_Dogs> i am still learning zypper, that is one comprehensive command
07:10 < za1b1tsu_> Two_Dogs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvF83x9eTPo&t=1s :)
07:10  * stevendale coughs
07:12 < za1b1tsu_> Two_Dogs: it's more complex then the usual package manager?
07:12 < Two_Dogs> za1b1tsu_: i am not sure what the pitch is
07:13 < Two_Dogs> za1b1tsu_: the gui manager? i dont think so, only other gui manager i can compare to is synaptic though
07:14 < mustu> epel repo is breaking yum ..... anyone else facing the same? tried on multiple fresh CentOS 7 vms
07:14 < za1b1tsu_> Two_Dogs: No, the CLI. Was the package manager made to be used mostly with the GUI interface, that's why is more complex?
07:15 < Two_Dogs> the repo breaks the installer?
07:15 < mustu> Two_Dogs  nah break yum.. have to disable the epel repo . i wonder if it's only fo rmy mirrors
07:16 < mustu> yum throws " One of the configured repositories failed (Unknown)...." error
07:16 < Two_Dogs> za1b1tsu_: zypper the cli is as versatile as aptitude, its a choice you have
07:16 < Two_Dogs> mustu: is it something simple? getting 404?
07:17 < mustu> no the mirror path is UP .. but it's not building the local cache
07:17 < mustu> yum update fails
07:18 < Two_Dogs> mustu: i ran out of guesses, i dont know yum, is there such as thing as clearing the cache?
07:18 < mustu> yes .. did that .. no effect..
07:19 < Two_Dogs> mustu: installing what app?
07:19 < mustu> I spinned off a fresh CentOS 7 vm ... yum is working perfect ... do yum install epel-release ... done .. now if we do yum update .. it fails to build the cache for the epel repo ... works fine if we disable the epel repo
07:20 < mustu> python-pip
07:21 < Two_Dogs> https://software.opensuse.org/package/python-pip mustu feel free to use our repos :)
07:22 < Two_Dogs> not sure if your centos is mentioned there
07:22 < mustu> ;)
07:27 < mohabaks> Two_Dogs: hey;might you know the default password and username for opensuse leap 15 cloud image.I've tried using the cloud init config setting the password but I cannot login in.
07:27 < Two_Dogs> no idea, ask in #suse
07:28 < Two_Dogs> mohabaks: ^^
07:28 < mohabaks> Two_Dogs: thanks
07:46 < toothe> sigh...
07:47 < toothe> i just screwed up my computer
07:47 < toothe> 100% data loss...
07:47 < toothe> all because I could not get gtk themes working the way I wanted.
07:47 < toothe> I wish I could easily change a setting, make something thinner, etc
07:54 < Two_Dogs> toothe: there is always plasma/lxqt/qt5
07:56 < cutesona> when i execute this command 10 times ‘ tmux new-session -d “python3 free_proxy.py”’, if i kill tmux pid only, then i can kill all python3 pid too?
07:58 < Two_Dogs> cutesona: if you run 'pstree -nxupa' and look under 'tmux' are all the python3 below it?
07:59 < cutesona> no idea
08:00 < jim> cutesona, it should show you
08:00 < Two_Dogs> my bad, should be -nsupa
08:01 < Two_Dogs> cutesona: ^^
08:01 < cutesona> yes
08:01 < cutesona> then i can all python process if kill tmux only?
08:01 < cutesona> then i can kill all python process if kill tmux only?
08:02 < cutesona> Two_Dogs: ?
08:03 < Two_Dogs> i dont know i would kill all python
08:04 < Two_Dogs> sounds dangerous, 'all python'
08:05 < cutesona> then i can kill python process that is children of tmux if i kill tmux  that is parent of python process? Two_Dogs ?
08:05 < cutesona> Two_Dogs: ?
08:06 < justsomeguy> I wonder if you can kill them by prefixing the pid with a -, to send the signal to the pid's process group.
08:06 < Two_Dogs> cutesona: execute> pstree -nsupa ## are all the sub processes below tmux what you want gone?
08:07 < cutesona> there is some python process under tmux process, so i want to kill python process under tmux at once.
08:07 < cutesona> Two_Dogs:
08:08 < cutesona> Two_Dogs: ?
08:08 < Two_Dogs> cutesona: is there more than one occurrance of 'tmux'?
08:08 < cutesona> only one
08:08 < cutesona> only one tmux
08:09 < Two_Dogs> cutesona: via terminal> pkill tmux
08:09 < cutesona> how about ‘kill pid'?
08:09 < Two_Dogs> sure
08:09 < Two_Dogs> you asked
08:10 < cutesona> what is difference between pkill and kill?
08:10 < wadadli> man em and see
08:10 < Two_Dogs> ^^
08:10 < stevendale> cutesona Are you a furry like me? :D
08:12 < Two_Dogs> cutesona: kill pid leaves alot of room for error, my opinion
08:12 < pingfloyd> cutesona: don't forget about killall too
08:13 < pingfloyd> I find the pid and kill it
08:13 < Two_Dogs> worse case in pkill someprocess is i dont spell it correctly and nothing happns
08:13 < cutesona> then i must use pkill?
08:13 < Two_Dogs> use what ever you prefer
08:14 < pingfloyd> if you know the pid before you kill it, you won't kill an innocent bystander by accident.
08:14 < Two_Dogs> just kill it for the love of god
08:14 < cutesona> pkill use program name?
08:14 < pingfloyd> try to terminate before you kill
08:14 < Two_Dogs> process name
08:15 < pingfloyd> why don't you just do: ps aux | grep [p]attern and then kill <pid>?
08:17 < cutesona> ps aux | grep tmux
08:17 < cutesona> root      7411  1.8  5.1  50312 48700 ?        Ss   05:12   1:09 tmux new-session -d python3 proxy_file.py
08:17 < cutesona> root      8134  0.0  0.0   3724   504 pts/0    S+   06:16   0:00 grep tmux
08:18 < cutesona> what is 8134?
08:18 < pingfloyd> that's your grep command
08:18 < pingfloyd> ps aux | grep [t]mux to filter that out
08:19 < pingfloyd> but you need kill 7411 anyway
08:19 < cutesona> pkill tmux? pingfloyd ?
08:19 < pingfloyd> no
08:19 < cutesona> then?
08:19 < pingfloyd> kill 7411
08:19 < cutesona> pkill tmux == kill 7411?
08:19 < pingfloyd> that will send terminate signal to that proc
08:20 < pingfloyd> which is what you want
08:20 < pingfloyd> cutesona: pkill uses a patern
08:20 < cutesona> both are same command?
08:20 < pingfloyd> kill you use a pid for argument
08:20 < pingfloyd> different programs
08:21 < cutesona> pkill tmux == kill 7411?  <—— both kill same process?
08:21 < cutesona> pingfloyd: ?
08:21 < pingfloyd> no
08:21 < cutesona> then?
08:21 < pingfloyd> their syntax is different.  See the man pages.
08:22 < pingfloyd> one takes a pattern as its main arg and the other takes a pid
08:22 < pingfloyd> both are for sending signals to processes
08:22 < cutesona> pkill tmux   <— this is not pattern?
08:22 < pingfloyd> that is a pattern
08:22 < pingfloyd> tmux is the pattern argument you're giving it
08:23 < Two_Dogs> sure 'tmux' pattern, there is only one
08:23 < Two_Dogs> for fun pkill something*
08:23 < Two_Dogs> or *something*
08:25 < pingfloyd> maybe he/she killed the wrong process there haha
08:26 < Two_Dogs> gone?
08:34 < [R]> https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/05/10/2119202/richard-stallman-demands-return-of-abortion-joke-to-libc-documentation
08:34 < [R]> stallman is losing it
08:36 < rendolf> do you think you can make linux the main choice for offices?
08:36 < rendolf> libre office is around
08:36 < rendolf> linux have e-mail clients
08:37 < sauvin> Depends on the office.
08:38 < rendolf> I don't want to end upp liche RS :(. Is that what's going to happen if I'm over-enthusiastic about computers?
08:38 < rendolf> I need to make my teching social, how do I do that? :/ Meetups?
08:40 < sauvin> This isn't a very good venue for discussing the vagaries of social interaction.
08:47 < jason85> What would be the easiest way to have a raspberry pi running raspbian show a GTK application on the display without a desktop environment?
08:48 < Dagmar> [R]: No, I'd say he was the only level head in the room on that one
08:48 < [R]> jason85: who said you needed a de?
08:48 < [R]> Dagmar: demanding that they leave a joke in?
08:48 < Dagmar> [R]: Yes.
08:48 < [R]> rofl
08:48 < Dagmar> The _why_ of the attempt at removing it was just insane
08:48 < pingfloyd> Raymond is being the thought police
08:49 < [R]> a man page is no place for a joke
08:49 < Dagmar> Actually, exactly the opposite
08:49 < Dagmar> ...on both counts.
08:49 < [R]> and plus could confuse people
08:49 < Dagmar> Actually, the people _confused_ by it would still get it
08:50 < pingfloyd> technical documentation is no place for the "safe space" parade.
08:50 < Dagmar> "this is not an acceptable way of terminating a program" actually sums things up beautifully
08:50 < [R]> oh i think the whole triggering and safe space crap is stupid
08:50 < [R]> but its still no place for a stupid joke
08:50 < Dagmar> It's not a knock-knock joke.
08:50 < Dagmar> It's _very_ oblique.
08:50 < pingfloyd> I think the joke wasn't edgy enough
08:51 < pingfloyd> but it is from the 90s after all
08:51 < Dagmar> There's more stuff like that around, but it serves a purpose
08:51 < pingfloyd> maybe the joke just needs to be updated
08:51 < rendolf> sauvin: I assume you were referring to the discussion about safe spaces and jokes? Is that what you meant by social vagaries?
08:52 < rendolf> sauvin: I disagree with you since I think those things affects FOSS, it matters to linux as well.
08:52 < Dagmar> It assigns a *strong* meaning to something when a coder makes an oblique reference like that
08:52 < Dagmar> Without that sort of leverage you'd have to TYPE A BUNCH OF STUFF IN ALL CAPS LIKE THE RSYNC MANPAGE DOES
08:53 < pingfloyd> you mean for user remembering?
08:53 < Dagmar> Yes.
08:53 < Dagmar> Also that the thing doesn't actually having anything to do with an actual abortion, just the various politics around them
08:54 < Dagmar> So... if someone wants to get offended by it, they'd probably be offended by a box of wheaties
08:54 < pingfloyd> There's only 10 types of people when it comes to abortion jokes.  Those that think they're funny, and those that don't.
08:54 < Dagmar> ...and Stallman is right when he says it _would_ be censorship.
08:55 < pingfloyd> it definitely would be censorship
08:55 < pingfloyd> the last kind things I want in the FOSS community
08:56 < Dagmar> I'm still a bit miffed about the removal of fortune -o from a few things
08:56 < Dagmar> That was my go-to in /root/.profile for getting me used to *not* elevating privs in front of people
08:57 < pingfloyd> I think it's kind of audacious of Raymond Nicholson and company to push censorship in a free community.
08:57 < Dagmar> They were probably thinking they were getting ahead of a problem, but...
08:57 < pingfloyd> Red Hat here is trying to bring it's own corporate politics into free software
08:57 < Dagmar> ...failed to realize that if there was a problem, the person complaining would likely be frothingly mad.
08:58 < Dagmar> Normal, sane people shouldn't find it offensive
08:58 < pingfloyd> Linux used to be where you could get an escape from that mindset
08:58 < pingfloyd> much like the internet in its early days
08:59 < Dagmar> THe lpd docs used to flat out say to read them while you were st0ned
09:00 < pingfloyd> these developers are high on the pot!
09:00 < sauvin> Times *have* changed, and I miss the days when the Internet hadn't yet moved into Joe Sixpack's toaster oven.
09:00 < Dagmar> There is also that if you spend 20 hours reading IBM docs you'll go insane from boredom
09:01 < Dagmar> I sat down and spent 18 hours reading basically, _all_ the man pages many years back
09:01 < pingfloyd> yeah IBM's docs are pretty meh
09:01 < Dagmar> It didn't drive me to want to gouge my eyes out
09:01 < pingfloyd> there's some nuggets on their site, but there's a lot of crap to have to pick through.
09:02 < pingfloyd> Microsoft is the same way
09:02 < pingfloyd> remember the Resource kits?
09:02 < pingfloyd> over 50% of the book was cheer leading
09:02 < Dagmar> I kind of hate them with a passion
09:02 < Blinky_> morning all, I have created 10-openvpn inside the /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/ directory.  the file contains - https://paste.linux.community/view/77ca960e -This works and creates the vpn tunnel, however sometimes the tunnel goes down, how can I make it always reconnect if the link is lost?
09:02 < pingfloyd> they had some useful info in them
09:03 < Dagmar> Oh how I love seeing people reinvent 20 year old problems
09:03 < pingfloyd> but it was buried away by corporate cheer leading and brochure mentality.
09:03 < Prof_Birch> Is it possible to have two init systems. the first to actually run init, and the second as a shell framework for programs that might require it
09:03 < pingfloyd> the index is your best friend with books like those
09:03 < Dagmar> Prof_Birch: Psst.  Don't look now, but that's crazy talk
09:04 < Prof_Birch> I know
09:04 < Prof_Birch> I just don't want to write a shim
09:04 < Dagmar> Prof_Birch: "the first to actually run init"
09:04 < Prof_Birch> *init processes
09:04 < Dagmar> That would be the kernel.
09:04 < pingfloyd> Prof_Birch: you're well on your way to inventing something worse than systemd. Congrats!
09:04 < Prof_Birch> Its systemd I am working with
09:04 < Dagmar> It starts *whatever* binary has been declared to be init
09:04 < Prof_Birch> I know
09:05 < Dagmar> This can be a shell script.  It doesn't care.
09:05 < Dagmar> That would make it a BSD init method
09:05 < Prof_Birch> It's not the init process itself I have an issue with. It's that Androids init process has its own language that Systemd doesn't understand
09:05 < Dagmar> That's because Android's init *works*
09:05 < Dagmar> heh
09:06 < Prof_Birch> Not for a GNU/Linux distro it doesn't
09:06 < Dagmar> Remember that regardless (or you might not even know this) most people's init systems are built to be able to *attempt* to start just about anything and everything at once
09:06 < Dagmar> Android doesn't have to care.
09:07 < Dagmar> It can be much, *much* simpler than what people are trying to push onto desktops and servers made with god-knows-what equipment
09:07 < Prof_Birch> I mean, I guess I could just rework androids init system to run GNU/Linux executables, but then I lose choice of program functionality since many applications aren't meant to work with it
09:07 < Dagmar> You do *not* need to attempt to push systemd onto Android
09:07 < pingfloyd> Android pretty much throws away their devices after enough years. (New android doesn't run on this old device).  That makes life easier for them.
09:07 < pingfloyd> (the easy way out).
09:08 < Dagmar> Prof_Birch: Dig a bit.  There's rc.local-like functionality in there
09:08 < pingfloyd> IOS is much worse in that regard though
09:08 < Prof_Birch> Systemd can run systemd-nspawn which gives a chroot like system that can access the init system
09:08 < saltymcurist> Hey I've got an odd question. I'm trying to play The Binding of Isaac rebirth on linux and it crashes instantly. I think I may have found a bug but I'd like to verify it. Does anyone else here play it?
09:08 < Dagmar> There's nothing that can't run 4.4 that I would stoop to using
09:08 < Zharf> pingfloyd, "easier"
09:08 < pingfloyd> but that's not saying much, because it is worst about artificial obsolescence.
09:08 < Prof_Birch> I need this to isolate a GNU/Linux system, but still give it full kernel module access
09:08 < Dagmar> Like, if the phone/tablet can't run 4.4, recycle it
09:09 < Prof_Birch> and allow myself to use the arch build system in a "chrooted" system
09:09 < Dagmar> You're on your own.
09:10 < saltymcurist> Anyone? I'm bored and desperate.
09:10 < Prof_Birch> Yeah I figured as much. I was trying to isolate all zygote scripts to the default android init, but run GNU/Linux executables through systemd, but I figured it wouldn't work
09:10 < Prof_Birch> didn't hurt to ask though
09:10 < Dagmar> What you're talking about is doable, but a senseless abuse of hardware
09:10 < pingfloyd> Prof_Birch: so why can't you just do a standard chroot for that?
09:10 < Prof_Birch> Chroot won't let fakeroot (faked) run, which is crucial to building packages from the AUR
09:11 < Dagmar> Phones and tablets and so on aren't exactly specced for compiling a bunch of stuff.  It'll be abuseively slow.
09:11 < Prof_Birch> (arch user repository)
09:11 < Prof_Birch> Dagmar, I am aware of ARM slowdowns compared to amd64, but a high end mobile processor still beats out a chromebook, and a chromebook is fine for minor education development tasks
09:12 < stevendale> :P
09:12 < stevendale> Prof_Birch Play Pokemon?
09:12 < Prof_Birch> Lol yeah
09:12 < Dagmar> Still.  Cross compile the stuff on "real" hardware if you value your time
09:12 < Prof_Birch> My Android mod that I am working on has roots in childhood pokedex dreams
09:13 < Dagmar> Don't use the word
09:13 < Prof_Birch> I plan to, for the majority of it.
09:13 < Prof_Birch> but I still want a self hosting system
09:13 < Dagmar> GF's lawyers *do* get angry-faces when you use the word "pokedex"
09:13 < Prof_Birch> Yep, my working project name is just "Dex" for nostalgias sake
09:14 < Prof_Birch> Anyway, Systemd runs a standardized IPC socket, so it works with many more legacy GNU/Linux applications
09:14 < pingfloyd> Prof_Birch: seems like you're taking an approach more difficult than needed
09:14 < Dagmar> If it weren't trying to eat the system, it wouldn't need IPC
09:15 < Prof_Birch> pingfloyd, what do you recommend
09:15 < pingfloyd> i.e., some of the requirements are covered by simpler and more conventional methods.
09:15 < pingfloyd> Prof_Birch: cross compiling was a good idea
09:15 < pingfloyd> that will bring some sanity to maintaining this thing
09:15 < saltymcurist> Hey, can anyone help me solve a stupid problem?
09:15 < stevendale> 32-bit OS master race :D
09:16 < saltymcurist> I think a game I'm trying too play on steam has a bug in where it saves the directory to save game files.
09:16 < Dagmar> It's not without reason that *everyone* cross-compiles their Android images
09:16 < Prof_Birch> I fully intend to cross compile, but I want local compilation ability as a last resort
09:16 < saltymcurist> Does anyone here have The Binding of Isaac Rebirth installed through steam?
09:16 < pingfloyd> Prof_Birch: there's a tiny learning curve to it maybe (which should be easy if you're used to compiling), but it's well worth it.
09:16 < Prof_Birch> I need to do it to build the ROM as is
09:17 < Prof_Birch> the point is that I have a fully functioning GNU/Linux system alongside (inside) Android that can do everything a stand alone system can, rather than a neutered chroot
09:17 < Prof_Birch> and compilation, though not ideal, is crucial to that
09:17 < Dagmar> You um... might want to go look at what Samsung pushed out last year then
09:17 < Prof_Birch> That's a VM
09:17 < pingfloyd> a project like this is probably going to take a lot of recompiling throughout.  So you really want a good system in place for handling that.
09:17 < Prof_Birch> coincedentally also named dex
09:18 < Prof_Birch> That's why I went with Arch
09:18 < iflema> saltymcurist: this is not #crappysteamgamesonlinux :P
09:18 < Dagmar> You're reinventing the wheel
09:18 < Dagmar> ...so you can mount it on another wheel.
09:18 < Prof_Birch> Gentoo would force recompilation. Arch already has ARM ports with repositories. It's just the few and far between AUR package I need
09:18 < pingfloyd> like were you simply run a script and the end result is a binary you simply put on or flash to the device.
09:18 < saltymcurist> iflema: Sure, but no one is in that channel so I thought I'd try my luck here.
09:18 < iflema> :D
09:18 < Dagmar> You can just *add* services to an Android box
09:18 < saltymcurist> iflema: Likewise, that term doesn't fit as this game is quite excellent.
09:19 < saltymcurist> Unless you mean how it runs.. But that is a different story.
09:19 < mshankar> testing
09:19 < Prof_Birch> How do you propose running GNOME in a chroot on android?
09:20 < Dagmar> pingfloyd: When he runs into SEandroid it will be epic
09:20 < mshankar> sudo tar -cfv etcbackup.tar /etc
09:20 < mshankar> tar: etcbackup.tar: Cannot stat: No such file or directory
09:20 < mshankar> tar: Removing leading `/' from member names
09:20 < mshankar> tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors
09:20 < Prof_Birch> I plan to use a custom kernel
09:20 < iflema> :D
09:20 < mshankar> why this error happending ?
09:21 < Dagmar> Probably because the location you're trying to write the tar file *to* is unsuitable
09:22 < Prof_Birch> Something like GNOME needs systemd
09:23 < saltymcurist> iflema: Could you take a look at the save path directory variable and tell me if it looks like it could be a bug? It is automatically written whenever the game runs, even if I change it prior.
09:24 < sauvin> Um... try -cvf instead of -cfv
09:24 < saltymcurist> sauvin: That shouldn't make a difference, right?
09:24 < iflema> saltymcurist: A I dont have it and B i dont use steam on linux
09:24 < mshankar> ok
09:24 < mshankar> hold on
09:24 < saltymcurist> iflema: Both are irrelevant.
09:24 < iflema> saltymcurist: what am i looking at?
09:24 < saltymcurist> It's a file path, it doesn't matter what's using it.
09:25 < pingfloyd> saltymcurist: it does
09:25 < iflema> hang on ill check me pocket.... nope
09:25 < saltymcurist> iflema: "/home/user_name/.local/share//binding of isaac rebirth/" Do you see anything wrong with this?
09:26 < iflema> saltymcurist: yes and no
09:26 < saltymcurist> iflema: Hm?
09:26 < pingfloyd> saltymcurist: -cfv file is like doing -c -f -v file (need it tied to the -f flag).
09:26 < saltymcurist> pingfloyd: Good point.
09:28 < pingfloyd> -c -f file -v would work though
09:28 < saltymcurist> The double slash in this directory /home/user_name/.local/share//binding of isaac rebirth/ is a syntax error, right?
09:28 < iflema> saltymcurist: to what? maybe... probably
09:29 < pingfloyd> that extra slash is superfluous
09:29 < saltymcurist> iflema: Bash
09:29 < pingfloyd> it's treated as such
09:29 < saltymcurist> Or whatever the game uses to save it.. I'm assuming it uses bash as a backend or something.. I don't know
09:30 < pingfloyd> .e.g, comes out to just single slash in the wash (like declaring a part of the path twice within itself).
09:30 < mshankar> sudo tar -cfv etc.tar /etc
09:30 < mshankar> tar: etc.tar: Cannot stat: No such file or directory
09:30 < mshankar> tar: Removing leading `/' from member names
09:30 < mshankar> tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors
09:30 < mshankar> same error
09:30 < mshankar> guys..! i can give a IP address of the machine
09:30 < mshankar> i dont mind
09:30 < saltymcurist> Well shit then I have no idea.
09:30 < mshankar> you give try if you want
09:31 < iflema> saltymcurist: to cd into it or create it would require back slashes
09:31 < sauvin> mshankar, you didn't see what I said?
09:31 < iflema> or some quoting i guess
09:32 < mshankar> @sauvin you said Um... try -cvf instead of -cfv
09:32 < mshankar> it make sense
09:32 < mshankar> ?
09:32 < sauvin> So you do the same thing you did before and you're surprised it doesn't work?
09:34 < iflema> saltymcurist: the game has a forum page no?
09:35 < iflema> saltymcurist: you didnt write it did you? :P this aint #addsforshit
09:36 < saltymcurist> iflema: Sure. I've been searching for hours based on other errors I was getting. The real issue I suppose is that I'm on a 64-bit system and trying to run a 32-bit game. I've installed all the libraries, and at this point it says it cannot find a lib file even though I have made of copy of it in the exact dir of the executable.
09:37 < iflema> saltymcurist: and the steam forum page? no joy?
09:37 < saltymcurist> iflema: They've recommended installing the various libs and making soft links from the original dir to the dir of the directory. No luck.
09:38  * iflema googles
09:38 < saltymcurist> iflema: Here's what it is giving me now.
09:38 < iflema> rating 10/10
09:39 < saltymcurist> iflema: https://paste.linux.community/view/01b2bdc8
09:39 < iflema> now
09:39 < saltymcurist> Also, I have no idea why it is trying to remove shit
09:39 < iflema> pins
09:40 < iflema> err
09:40  * alexey-nemovff thinks iflema should duckduckgoes instead of googles
09:40 < pingfloyd> or check both
09:40 < pingfloyd> sometimes ddg gives much better results
09:40  * iflema installed chrome becuse FF and hasnt got that far
09:40  * iflema some what lazy
09:41 < alexey-nemovff> pingfloyd: and if it doesn't there is startpage
09:41  * iflema mmmm pins
09:41 < pingfloyd> chrome is the way of the dark side
09:42  * alexey-nemovff thinks iflema should go Waterfox instead Chrome crap
09:42 < saltymcurist> Also no idea what the pins thing is
09:43 < pingfloyd> won't be long before you too become a Google Sturmtruppen
09:43 < iflema> not legs
09:44 < iflema> Linux: ~/.local/share/binding of isaac rebirth <- apparently... says the common issues (pinned) thread
09:44 < rendolf> coders neck, coders back, coders lack of social awareness, coders social life and mental health. I'm sold, shut up and take the one lif I have on this planet.
09:44 < alexey-nemovff> lol
09:44 < saltymcurist> The directory has a log.txt and nothing else.
09:45 < pingfloyd> rendolf: except coders don't usually incoherently ramble in public places.
09:45 < rendolf> alexey-nemovff: if I only knew better 20 years ago
09:45 < saltymcurist> Which is also empty.
09:45 < pingfloyd> rendolf: so, you're saying you regret becoming a coder?
09:46 < pingfloyd> I can understand.  It kind of becomes like being an intelligent factory worker.
09:46 < rendolf> pingfloyd: I regret the costs of it. The lack of social payoff and physical activity. Many other jobs include social interaction and physical activity that keeps you healthy.
09:46 < pingfloyd> same whip cracking, just in a different way.
09:46 < iflema> saltymcurist: there is a direct email address to report bugs in that thread
09:46 < rendolf> pingfloyd: yeah
09:47  * sauvin is a factory worker and not exactly a drooling idiot :sigh:
09:47 < pingfloyd> sauvin: there's intelligent people stuck in factory jobs sometimes yes
09:48 < iflema> saltymcurist: write a 2d side scroller in python or something. event loops are fun
09:48 < pingfloyd> they're something like 1 in 50 there though
09:49 < saltymcurist> iflema: I've given up coding, unfortunately.
09:49 < pingfloyd> rendolf: I need to stay active these days.
09:49 < rendolf> I remember when youtube started to take of. I was thinking "wow, this is so cool, people all over the world will be able to ... wait, wtf is this?"
09:49 < pingfloyd> rendolf: I can't handle being in front of a desk as much I used to.
09:49 < rendolf> pingfloyd: physically or socially?
09:50 < pingfloyd> it takes such a toll on health and strength
09:50 < rendolf> pingfloyd: same here and I can't take another 20 years of it
09:50 < rendolf> I regret everything.
09:50 < pingfloyd> a job like that can be okay socially depending
09:50 < pingfloyd> depends on your coworkers
09:50 < pingfloyd> but I usually run into more people I like in blue collar jobs
09:51 < pingfloyd> rendolf: I think the main thing is try to be more active where you can and get out and socialize more.
09:52 < pingfloyd> rendolf: social skills will atrophy like anything else.
09:52 < pingfloyd> that's the problem with any desk job.  They're all about atrophy.
09:53 < pingfloyd> rendolf: are you lonely?
09:53 < alexey-nemovff> and drunk
09:53 < rendolf> pingfloyd: it's hard to spend your freetime doing that just to slow down the atrophy of your health.
09:53 < rendolf> pingfloyd: yes
09:53 < rendolf> pingfloyd: when it could be included in the job
09:54 < pingfloyd> rendolf: that's one of the things I liked about working in deskside support
09:54 < pingfloyd> I got to run around a lot and talk to all sorts of people
09:55 < pingfloyd> kept my social and physical self somewhat maintained
09:56 < rendolf> pingfloyd: what are you doing now?
09:56 < pingfloyd> rendolf: it's like having great pay but not much of anything enjoyable to do with it.
09:57 < rendolf> yeah..
09:57 < pingfloyd> rendolf: I'm cooking now
09:57 < pingfloyd> It's actually a nice break
09:57 < pingfloyd> I've actually been happier lately
09:57 < rendolf> hmm
09:57 < pingfloyd> it feels like in Office Space at the end
09:58 < pingfloyd> maybe you need to take a break from IT
09:58 < iflema> waterfox
09:58 < iflema> lol
09:58  * iflema googles
09:58 < pingfloyd> I got burned out on it.  Still enjoy using linux in my down time.
09:59 < rendolf> pingfloyd: damn.. that doesn't sound too hopeful for me.
09:59 < rendolf> pingfloyd: got higher education?
09:59 < pingfloyd> some
09:59 < pingfloyd> no degree though
10:00 < rendolf> I've got a 5 year engineering degree and I'm really good at it. But I'm burned out and deprived of physical activity and social interaction.
10:00 < pingfloyd> rendolf: you know what is a really horrible thought?
10:00 < rendolf> yeah
10:00 < pingfloyd> rendolf: in IT you reach a certain level where the only place "up to go" is into management
10:00 < rendolf> yeah :| I know.
10:01 < pingfloyd> it's like the career gets less enjoyable the "more successful you become".
10:01 < rendolf> I wonder how that's suppose to improve my life. Sounds even more stressful too.
10:01 < rendolf> mhmm
10:02 < pingfloyd> I kind of wish I had put more energy into my art instead
10:02 < pingfloyd> if I knew then what I know now
10:02 < rendolf> exactly my feeling
10:02 < mshankar> I have SSH to my laptop which is ruuning on ubuntu 18.04 running , how to send the output to my screen ? user@dell:~$ find /home/user -name ".bash*" > gnome-terminal
10:02 < TheWild> hello
10:02 < pingfloyd> some of the best times were the hardest times
10:02 < pingfloyd> also the more inspiring times
10:02 < rendolf> pingfloyd: hardest time, how?
10:03 < TheWild> who likes puzzles? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3fa616895717b71a79b78bd3504a2973
10:03 < pingfloyd> rendolf: like being a young starving artist
10:03 < mshankar> i have found nothing on my scrren
10:03 < BCMM> mshankar: send the output of *what* to *which* screen?
10:03 < BCMM> mshankar: oh, you want the output of that find command to go to the screen *and* go to a file?
10:04 < mshankar> base screen/orginal screen
10:04 < mshankar> yes
10:04 < BCMM> mshankar: ah, do you mean the laptop's screen?
10:04 < mshankar> yes
10:04 < mshankar> that's right
10:04 < BCMM> mshankar: as in, you want to ssh in, but see output displayed on the ssh server instead of client?
10:04 < iflema> TheWild: i got one... what was the name of the smurf that would show up and take smurfette away?
10:04 < mshankar> yes
10:05 < BCMM> mshankar: and "> gnome-terminal" was supposed to send output to the actual gnome-terminal program somehow?
10:05 < rendolf> pingfloyd: everything I dreamed of didn't matter. I'm over 30, writing MMORPGs is silly now and it's out of fashion and it's a waste of time in every way. My AI-ambitions has been rather psychotic and I'm competing with google. I didn't break any important crypto. Industry just want to make money instead of improving the world. And so forth.
10:05 < BCMM> mshankar: try DISPLAY=:0 gnome-terminal -e command goes here
10:06 < pingfloyd> rendolf: yeah, anybody who funds it just cares about money.
10:06 < mshankar> ok
10:06 < mshankar> thanks
10:07 < BCMM> mshankar: DISPLAY=:0 tells it that you want to display graphical programs on your local X11 session. gnome-terminal starts a new GUI terminal emulator. -e command specifies the command gnome-terminal will start with (instead of just starting a shell)
10:07 < mshankar> aruran@dell:~$ find /home/user -name ".bash*" > DISPLAY=:0 gnome-terminal
10:07 < pingfloyd> psychotic AI ambitions?
10:07 < pingfloyd> are you trying to build skynet or something?
10:08 < mshankar> find: paths must precede expression: `gnome-terminal'
10:08 < mshankar> find: possible unquoted pattern after predicate `-name'?
10:08 < mshankar> no luck
10:08 < mshankar> :(
10:08 < Nihl> Is there a way to map double <Shift> press (in less then 0.5 seconds)  to CapsLock?
10:08 < pingfloyd> rendolf: yeah, there's already too many MMOs
10:08 < rendolf> pingfloyd: yes. I've not been rational about it. I thought that all I needed was massive computing power, some kind of physical simulator and then let virtual evolution fix the rest
10:08 < pingfloyd> rendolf: and they're the same old time sinks with different dressing
10:09 < TheWild> iflema: no clue. I don't know the original names (duh, I don't even remember their localized names). Anyway, that doesn't seem to be logic challenge.
10:09  * iflema 0020
10:09 < rendolf> pingfloyd: I hate games now. Meaningless timewasting staring at the screen. That's subjective, but it's all a waste of time, health and resources to me.
10:09 < iflema> TheWild: it was Wild...
10:10 < pingfloyd> They can be time sucker that are endless carrot on a stick
10:10 < iflema> the puzzle...
10:11 < pingfloyd> I should make an MMO that IS carrot on a stick
10:11 < TheWild> nope, but I'll give you a hint: 0020 would be on line 25 if I would continue the sequence.
10:11 < pingfloyd> Carrot On a Stick The MMO
10:11 < sauvin> And its logo will be a caret on a shtick?
10:12 < pingfloyd> then I'll join the tres commas club
10:12 < Triffid_Hunter> Nihl: check man xkeyboard-config - I don't think so but perhaps you can find another suitable combination
10:13 < Triffid_Hunter> Nihl: I have my capslock set to switch to greek layout when held, so in the extremely rare case that I actually want capslock I have to press alt+caps
10:13 < rendolf> pingfloyd: years of chair sitting and clicking on animations of virtual creatures to chase dopamine, that's how I see it. And I think of everything you miss out because of that.
10:13 < rendolf> pingfloyd: being a singer or something would be nice.
10:13 < pingfloyd> rendolf: if you think about it though, it goes even deeper than that.
10:13 < iflema> TheWild: 1110
10:13 < gidna> Hello
10:13 < gidna> I get this error: https://nopaste.xyz/?3c9104284c6f9cf9#JJNRoJHX9DeHd3skfKHvv/nhG+Y/SqkFaeeW7L2dGYc=
10:14 < pingfloyd> consumerism is in our DNA at this point.  And it's our pursuit of luxury and comfort that ultimately make us weaker.
10:14 < iflema> makws sence
10:15 < pingfloyd> man degenerates itself, like reverse natural selection, at this point.
10:15 < Triffid_Hunter> gidna: uhh glibc-2.2 is ancient, what's the makefile actually doing? might need to make clean, rebuild all those object files
10:16 < rendolf> pingfloyd: yeah. that's depressing. And that's also what we're working 10 hours a day for. To produce new clothes when we theoretically only need a good pair per year or so.
10:17 < rendolf> so much waste of everything. Pokemon cards? Bayblades? And someone has to work to produce and maintain it all: us, we do, we work 10h/day for it.
10:18 < pingfloyd> also think about that we get weaker building ourselves more crutches which in return requires more crutches.
10:19 < pingfloyd> we build ourselves a more and more comfortable life, that makes us weaker so we can build an even more comfortable life for the next generation (vicious cycle).
10:19 < gidna> Triffid_Hunter: I get No update candidate for 'glibc-2.22-16.3.x86_64'. The highest available version is already installed.
10:20 < rendolf> pingfloyd: I think things are getting harder psychologically though.
10:20 < mshankar> how to Turn off Automatic Log-Off using command ?
10:20 < revel> 2.22? Sounds old.
10:20 < mshankar> ubuntu OS
10:20 < pingfloyd> rendolf: I think so to
10:20 < pingfloyd> rendolf: I think some of that is the results of the atrophy
10:21 < rendolf> pingfloyd: world is getting more competitive and faster changing. Companies pops up and dies at a faster rate I'd guess. More pressure. Always have to learn new things now.
10:21 < pingfloyd> e.g., being stuck sitting all day instead of being able to say go out and enjoy the sun, takes it toll on one's psyche.
10:21 < pingfloyd> work can sometimes feel like a prison without walls
10:21 < Triffid_Hunter> gidna: that's.. not at all related to what I said
10:21 < rendolf> damn. yep. I'm sitting in a dark room right now but it's sunny outside
10:23 < gidna> Triffid_Hunter: this is the makefile: https://nopaste.xyz/?ebc4183dca53d2b6#OgzUsJyLhMVSd06MHl8ZvHWehNCuOPGOfdim/Eyd/VU=
10:23 < pingfloyd> rendolf: I think really we were meant to be hunters and gatherers
10:23 < rendolf> pingfloyd: problem is, life is hard without an education. I make 1/4 as much with a regular job. Even less so on lower skilled job (say, McDonalds).
10:23 < pingfloyd> rendolf: that daily activity of chasing the food and resources kept us in shape.
10:24 < pingfloyd> rendolf: don't I know it
10:24 < rendolf> pingfloyd: originally. Hunteres and gatherers were made too and those before them had to suffer the harsh selection of evolution.
10:24 < pingfloyd> rendolf: I have the same problem
10:24 < Triffid_Hunter> gidna: argh it's generated and therefore basically unreadable
10:25 < pingfloyd> rendolf: seems like any more the only truly happy people are indigenous tribes we discover out in the middle or nowhere for the first, and then they don't stay happy long if they stay in contact with us too long.
10:27 < pingfloyd> rendolf: do they work you long and insane hours?
10:28 < rendolf> pingfloyd: they are at least not working for pointless things beyond food and socializing
10:29 < rendolf> and they've manage to make their work social somehow. They'll sit together and sing while they're crushing nuts or are cooking.
10:29 < rendolf> I really don't know. I'm sure they have their own problems. But what we have sucks for many of us.
10:29 < pingfloyd> rendolf: yeah, they're maintaining the essentials
10:30 < pingfloyd> rendolf: it's like as we get more civilized, the farther we get away from maintaining the important essentials.
10:30 < pingfloyd> like how 50+ hours is the norm
10:30 < rendolf> on the other hand, give it a 100.000 years of this and our fast phased ever changing world will probably be our in genes and be natural to us.
10:30 < pingfloyd> humans need to be able to have a life outside of work
10:30 < rendolf> pingfloyd: yeah.
10:30 < BCMM> a lot of these problems are not inherent issues with civilisation
10:31 < pingfloyd> or their mental state deteriorates
10:31 < TheWild> iflema: sorry, that wasn't the correct answer. Don't guess - find the pattern!
10:31 < BCMM> the long hours is a direct result of fairly recent economic policy
10:31 < iflema> 9
10:31 < pingfloyd> BCMM: because it has become normalized.
10:31 < rendolf> pingfloyd: and I think we're making it harder and harder for ourselves socially too. There's an arms race of social status and culture.
10:32 < onla> I did this and the & character didnt work as expected  xargs sed -i 's/Ruokatunti/P&auml;iv&auml;raha/g'
10:32 < pingfloyd> rendolf: another example of a pointless things we dump energy into
10:33 < pingfloyd> rendolf: it's like we become more disconnected the more we become connected
10:33 < iflema> yeah maybe... but what energy efficiency...
10:33 < rendolf> pingfloyd: in many senses
10:34 < pingfloyd> like we start to relate to each other as more of ticks on a counter instead of getting to know people
10:34 < rendolf> pingfloyd: now that makes absolutely no sense when you put it that way
10:35 < iflema> just get rid of coffee cars and sugar.. thatll slow things down
10:35 < rendolf> none of those ticks matters if you don't know a single one of them well
10:36 < pingfloyd> like ever seen two people text each other sitting at a table together?
10:36 < pingfloyd> there so much depressing irony in that picture.
10:37 < rendolf> :|
10:37 < pingfloyd> rendolf: one of things I've noticed over the years is that people don't make eye contact very much anymore.
10:38 < k_sze[work]> So I have a server with ZFS configured, which a bunch of raidz2 vdevs. Suppose I have a new system admin coming in and they know nothing about my server.
10:38 < pingfloyd> k_sze[work]: tell him not to mess up your server
10:39 < k_sze[work]> `lsscsi` would show all the HDDs, but how would he find out that some of them are used in ZFS vdevs, (especially if he didn't already know that the server uses ZFS)?
10:39 < k_sze[work]> (and without me telling him).
10:40 < pingfloyd> k_sze[work]: could you tell him?
10:40 < rendolf> pingfloyd: it has become an end in itself rather than a means to an end
10:40 < k_sze[work]> Something like `sudo lsof /dev/sdcy`, where /dev/sdcy is one of the HDDs used in ZFS vdev, shows nothing.
10:41 < pingfloyd> rendolf: yeah
10:41 < pingfloyd> rendolf: like you used to use the phone to call the girl to meet her.
10:41 < k_sze[work]> Put another way, if I know nothing about a server and I see a bunch of HDDs in the output of `lsscsi`, how do I systematically find out how each of the HDDs are used?
10:45 < Deknos> is there a possibility to see at runtime, if a certain syscall is available (to use)?
10:47 < rendolf> pingfloyd: what got you burned out?
10:47 < pingfloyd> I think the constant mental energy put toward software that I don't really care about
10:48 < rendolf> :'(
10:49 < iflema> blkid? k_sze[work]
10:49 < iflema> it shows me what and where but im desktop and ext
10:49 < rendolf> pingfloyd: I don't want 20 more years of that but I don't want to cut my salary to a 1/4 th either - but might very well just be worth it.
10:50 < pingfloyd> rendolf: that's the dilemma
10:50 < pingfloyd> the tough choice
10:50 < rendolf> it's not just about the salary. I'll lose some respect too, people will just wonder what the hell I'm doing.
10:50 < pingfloyd> yeah
10:50 < pingfloyd> that's part of what sucks
10:51 < k_sze[work]> iflema: what's your exact invocation? Like `sudo blkid /dev/sda`?
10:51 < pingfloyd> there's a higher level of sanctimony to deal with in the white collar sector
10:51 < iflema> blkid
10:51 < iflema> :D
10:51 < iflema> #
10:51 < pingfloyd> that why you should just do whatever you want and screw everyone else.
10:52 < k_sze[work]> iflema: oh wow
10:52 < pingfloyd> I mean say to hell with everyone else
10:52 < k_sze[work]> I didn't know blkid can do that
10:52 < rendolf> pingfloyd: I don't look down on "regular workers". They're usually much more fun to work with. But there's greater lack of intellectual stimulation there, and it sucks even harder there when it actually sucks.
10:53 < k_sze[work]> iflema: from the blkid man page: "If [no device] is given, all devices which appear in /proc/partitions are shown, if they are recognized."
10:53 < pingfloyd> yeah
10:53 < rendolf> pingfloyd: and the kind of work I actually enjoy is typically done by people in their 18 or something. And there's somet things I just don't like about being a shop keeper or something, for example being used by some cynical COE.
10:53 < k_sze[work]> iflema: but if a partition isn't mounted, does it still appear in /proc/partitions?
10:54 < k_sze[work]> Let me try.
10:54 < iflema> yep k_sze[work]
10:54 < stevendale> Hi
10:55 < iflema> k_sze[work]: but it does see my ntfs as vfat
10:55 < k_sze[work]> ntfs *shouldn't* be vfat, no?
10:55 < iflema> and the "if they are recognized" is interesting
10:55 < k_sze[work]> I thought ntfs is ntfs, and only fat32 is vfat?
10:56 < k_sze[work]> And what if a block device isn't partitioned at all, right? Does it still appear in /proc/partitions?
10:56 < rendolf> pingfloyd, so these are the things that sucks? mental/information burnout, lack of physical activity, not enough sun and not enough social/emotional interaction .. and creating things you despise or absolutely couldn't care less about.
10:56 < Triffid_Hunter> ntfs and vfat are two entirely separate and distinct things with their only commonality being the company that created them
10:56 < iflema> k_sze[work]: yeah no
10:56 < k_sze[work]> :P
10:56 < iflema> the vfat is my EFI part so not mounted no show
10:56 < Triffid_Hunter> k_sze[work]: yep, mine has sda which is btrfs on the block, no partitions
10:57 < k_sze[work]> Triffid_Hunter: so does it show in the output of `blkid` for you?
10:57 < Triffid_Hunter> k_sze[work]: /dev/sda: LABEL="storage" UUID="c91c1883-4eae-4b12-85d7-11ab2d64f0ef" UUID_SUB="602ff687-261a-4881-a996-78420cf85dc5" TYPE="btrfs"
10:58 < pingfloyd> rendolf: if you had to choose between being a billionaire or broke and in history books, which would you choose?
10:58 < iflema> easy
10:59 < iflema> you can into the book with that cash
11:00 < pingfloyd> maybe in some obscure book that nobody cares about.  Like you think Bill Gates is going to matter much in history?
11:00 < pingfloyd> after a few generations go by
11:00 < rendolf> pingfloyd: the former, I'd just retire and spend the billions on research I care about. I don't care about history books anymore. I used to, but being newton or einstein in these ages means nothing.
11:01 < rendolf> imagine if relativity was discovered today: wow, we could make some $$$ of this. Call the PR guys, monetize.
11:01 < k_sze[work]> Triffid_Hunter: and it's also somewhere in /proc/partitions?
11:02 < iflema> k_sze[work]: yeah dont listen to me... Im thinking im on another system. Do mounted parts showup?
11:02 < iflema> unmounted i mean k_sze[work]
11:03 < rendolf> pingfloyd: and more realistically, one will just end up burned out while trying to optimize something and nobody will know about it.
11:03 < k_sze[work]> iflema: Looks like they still show up.
11:03 < iflema> goodone
11:03 < k_sze[work]> iflema: I have a USB dongle that I plugged into the server, and I haven't mounted any of its partitions.
11:03 < k_sze[work]> The partitions still show up in the output of `blkid`.
11:04 < Triffid_Hunter> k_sze[work]: yep,    8        0  976762584 sda
11:04 < rendolf> pingfloyd: then again. if you don't compete you'll end up working for assholes or doing the work for someone else even if your boss is a nice guy
11:04 < k_sze[work]> Triffid_Hunter: So it still counts as a partition, even though it has no *partition table*.
11:04 < Triffid_Hunter> k_sze[work]: and so does my nvme root even though it does have partitions
11:05 < pingfloyd> rendolf: in the end, either way it is a portion of your lifespan
11:05 < k_sze[work]> Triffid_Hunter: does or doesn't?
11:05 < Triffid_Hunter> k_sze[work]: well who knows, but block devices certainly show up in those two tools regardless of whether they have partition tables or not
11:05 < k_sze[work]> I see.
11:05 < rendolf> pingfloyd: and in the end, you won't even remember a thing when it's over
11:05 < TheWild> you people are against parsing "ls", but what about "ls -1"? What can go wrong?
11:05 < Triffid_Hunter> k_sze[work]: https://bpaste.net/show/d511c72d722f
11:06 < k_sze[work]> Triffid_Hunter: great! thanks for the info!
11:06 < mant1s> "what could possibly go wrong"
11:07 < iflema> what about findmnt
11:09 < pingfloyd> TheWild: why are you having to parse ls?
11:10 < k_sze[work]> Hmm, `lsblk` seems less useful than blkid.
11:10 < k_sze[work]> lsblk can't tell me about ZFS.
11:10 < TheWild> pingfloyd: I don't have to, just asking.
11:11 < TheWild> okay, I found out s**t happens when file names contain newline characters
11:11 < iflema> k_sze[work]: findmnt useful?
11:11 < pingfloyd> TheWild: the problem with parsing ls is that you can't rely on the output of ls to be what you expect.
11:11 < pingfloyd> (in short)
11:12 < k_sze[work]> iflema: nice!
11:12 < rendolf> pingfloyd: are you happy now?
11:12 < rendolf> pingfloyd: got a better half?
11:12 < pingfloyd> TheWild: this wouldn't have been an issue if certain limitation upon file names had been enforced.
11:13 < pingfloyd> rendolf: I've been seeing a girl for quite some time
11:13 < rendolf> lucky
11:13 < rendolf> I havne't even been trying
11:13 < nai> hey, i know one of the fundamental tasks of PID 1 is to "reap" orphaned processes, but i actually don't know why this is needed. could i just choose to not care about orphaned processes and run any old shell script as my PID 1?
11:13 < rendolf> pingfloyd: how old are you brah? :3
11:13 < k_sze[work]> iflema: findmnt seems unable to trace a block device (or a partition underneath) to ZFS.
11:13 < pingfloyd> 45
11:13 < rendolf> pingfloyd: just happy to talk to someone who feels the same way I do
11:13 < stevendale> How are are you rendolf
11:13 < TheWild> pingfloyd: well... okay, but did you mean that the format of "ls -1" might not be the same everywhere?
11:13 < stevendale> old
11:14 < pingfloyd> TheWild: ls with any flag used
11:14 < rendolf> pingfloyd: somehow that feels like a weight that has been lifted off my shoulders, that it's okay to feel that way.
11:14 < TheWild> well, serves. Thanks pingfloyd
11:14 < pingfloyd> TheWild: it's an ago old problem with ls and / being the only character not allowed in naming of files.
11:15 < pingfloyd> TheWild: wooledge has a good explanation of the issue
11:15 < TheWild> I'll take a look in the internets
11:15 < pingfloyd> ttps://mywiki.wooledge.org/ParsingLs
11:15 < pingfloyd> https://mywiki.wooledge.org/ParsingLs
11:16 < pingfloyd> that has a good overview of it
11:16 < TheWild> Unrecognized protocol: ttps... okay, I know, I know ;)
11:18 < TheWild> short: don't use bash. Use python for example.
11:18 < pingfloyd> no
11:18 < iflema> import os    os.listdir(dir)
11:18 < pingfloyd> shell is really good for certain things
11:19 < nai> no. short: don't use ls, use bash
11:19 < pingfloyd> yeah, ls isn't even needed in the first place when you need to parse
11:19 < Dagmar> I need more easy shell access.
11:19 < Dagmar> Parse ls all you like
11:20 < pingfloyd> I think the point is you can't really blame the shell for that issue
11:20 < Dagmar> I think it's a very bad idea from the get-go
11:21 < mant1s> I don't always inject my thoughts in conversations I don't read but when I do..Python
11:22 < TheWild> but "find . -type f -print0 | while IFS= read -r -d '' filename"? Ugh, this one is ugly.
11:22 < Dagmar> It's also insane
11:22 < mant1s> O_O
11:22 < nai> for filename in **
11:22 < rendolf> pingfloyd: one thing I hate about coding is that anything you do drowns in an ocean of pee
11:22 < TheWild> now I see I always neglected -print0 argument, IFS= and -d '', but I subconsciously assumed my files will never have newline characters in their name.
11:23 < nai> leave your subconscious out of this
11:23 < Dagmar> You haven't lived until you've generated a few thousand files with _completely_ random filenames and watched the enterprise-level backup system *freak out*
11:23 < TheWild> lol
11:24 < mant1s> define .. completely :)
11:24 < TheWild> then new way of hacking systems
11:24 < Dagmar> It decided that it had failed and marked four LTO tapes as unrecoverably corrupted
11:24 < nai> for i in {1..1000}; do read -rn 100 < /dev/urandom; touch -- "$REPLY"; done
11:25 < TheWild> touch $(dd if=/dev/urandom count=$RANDOM iflag=count_bytes)
11:25 < nai> ouch, you'd want to quote that
11:25 < Dagmar> Also, nul isn't allowed in filenames so that won't work so well
11:26 < TheWild> omg, 21641 characters. No, no, no, no. count=$[RANDOM >> 8]
11:26 < nai> for i in {1..1000}; do read -rd '' -n 100 < /dev/urandom; touch -- "${REPLY//\//}"; done
11:26 < Dagmar> I just wanted to test something i'd written.  At least I knew *I* was handling filenames correctly.  ;)
11:26 < nai> or just bs=1
11:37 < pingfloyd> or something like: for name in *; do array+=("$name"); done    and then parse the array.
11:44 < ButtholeFungus> hi
11:44 < ButtholeFungus> I have a program -- but I forgot the name of it. When I launch it it lists the programs I have installed in a blackbar at the top of the screen. I can then type a program name and have it launch. What's this called?
11:45 < pingfloyd> run dialog
11:45 < pingfloyd> dmenu is like that
11:45 < ButtholeFungus> pingfloyd: what's dialog?
11:46 < pingfloyd> a type of widget/control
11:47 < ButtholeFungus> pingfloyd: yeah it is dmenu. Anyway, I can launch most programs from it, but some arn't listed. Do you know why?
11:47 < pingfloyd> are the programs in the PATH?
11:47 < nai> they probably aren't in the PATH when dmenu is launched
11:48 < ButtholeFungus> pingfloyd: Yeah I added them. I can launch them from any directory in my terminal
11:48 < pingfloyd> did you restart dmenu proc afterward?
11:49 < pingfloyd> it may need to reread the "current" PATH
11:49 < ButtholeFungus> pingfloyd: these programs were instaleld before I had demnu
11:51 < vy> Hey! I have just switched from resolvconf to dnssec-trigger + unbound. As expected, internal company DNS server is not picked up. How can I add those entries as an exception for dnssec-trigger? (Or unbound?)
11:51 < Triffid_Hunter> vy: unbound has local zones where you can specify an upstream server to use
11:57 < vy> Triffid_Hunter: Thanks for the prompt reply. After Google'ing a bit, I am sorta puzzled. Do you have a pill for me to express "for *.foo.com domain names use <ip> as dns server"?
11:58 < repys> from df -h /mydisk I see 99% full but with du -sh /mydisk I get it is almost empty
11:58 < repys> how can I determine what is using the space?
12:00 < BCMM> hmm, i know it's easy enough in dnsmasq, no idea for unbound though...
12:00 < BCMM> vy: looks like you have have a "forward-zone:" section in unbound.conf https://superuser.com/a/1160394
12:01 < Triffid_Hunter> vy: see "Stub Zone Options" in man unbound.conf
12:01 < Two_Dogs> speaking of dnssec, someone suggested i enable it and being that i use dnsmasq for dns caching i went ahead and enabled it, everything on the lan worked as it had before, the test for dnssec via the website i had previously failed the dnssec test on indicated pass but my ipad getting dns from the same server just would not resolve any address until i moved off the dnsmasq server, thoughts?
12:01 < Triffid_Hunter> vy: "The  stub zone can be used to configure authoritative data to be used by the resolver that cannot be accessed using the public internet servers.  This is useful for company-local data or private zones." ;)
12:03 < ButtholeFungus> I deleted the cache, restarted my computer, checked that my progarms were in the PATH, and some still don't appear in dmenu. What do?
12:10 < Triffid_Hunter> ButtholeFungus: sounds like kde's run dialog.. if you're running kde, press alt+f2 to bring that up
12:11 < ButtholeFungus> Triffid_Hunter: What's kde?
12:11 < ButtholeFungus> Triffid_Hunter: But alt+f2 does bring up a textbox.
12:30 < anddam> hello, I'm using the integrated graphic chipset on my i5-6500. that is "VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Sky Lake Integrated Graphics (rev 06)"
12:31 < anddam> should I bother installing drivers from 01.org or is using un up-to-date system enough? (I'm on Ubuntu)
12:32 < gidna> Hello
12:32 < anddam> by drivers I mean the "firmware" offered, that is GUC, DMC, HUC
12:32 < gidna> Is there a way to convert png images to epub?
12:32 < anddam> gidna: that doesn't make much sense
12:32 < rascul> not directly, but you can potentially create an epub which includes said images
12:33 < rascul> epub is a collection of html files and stuff
12:33 < anddam> sure, it'd hardly be a conversion though
12:33 < anddam> gidna: what's the intended purpose?
12:33 < gidna> I'd like to make a epub file out  of images..
12:34 < rascul> looks like there might be an extension for libreoffice writer to export epub
12:34 < rascul> or it looks like you could create it with libreoffice writer then use calibre to convert to epub
12:35 < prawn> ButtholeFungus: are you sure you correctly updated your path? Are you aware you probably have to restart your desktop session in order to get your menu to recognize your changes to $PATH? Also, does your software even get that change? For example a change to your bashrc would do nothing for dmenu
12:36 < nostrora> what happend in USA... bye bye net neutrality :(
12:36 < rascul> what net neutrality?
12:36 < revel> A question and an answer at the same time?
12:36 < prawn> gidna: calibre can convert a lot to and from epub, maybe it can even do plain images. Can't check right now.
12:37 < nostrora> rascul: Net neutrality is the principle that Internet service providers treat all data on the Internet the same, and not discriminate or charge differently by user, content, website, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or method of communication.
12:37 < revel> I think Calibre can do html<->epub, but not plain image<->epub
12:37 < prawn> Then a simple html wrapper would do nicely?
12:37 < rascul> oh, you mean the regulations that were crafted by unelected officials in an agency that didn't have the power to implement it?
12:37 < anddam> mm I see from https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/i915 that I'm lacking a skl_guc_ver9_33.bin and I have skl_dmc_ver1_26.bin in place of latest skl_dmc_ver1_27.bin
12:38 < revel> Probably.
12:39 < prawn> anddam: which Ubuntu release are you using?
12:39 < rascul> nostrora did you realize that the net neutrality regulations never went into effect? also, there was nothing for it to fix
12:39 < rascul> it was regulation looking for a problem, there was going to be nothing good from it
12:40 < prawn> > nothing to fix
12:40 < rascul> nothing that the fcc should have been fixing, anyway
12:40 < prawn> Uh, ISPs throttling YouTube, inserting ads, etc.
12:40 < rascul> you think that was going to stop? heh
12:41 < rascul> outside of fcc's scope anyway, ftc was already handling legal issues around isp's
12:41 < nostrora> they're on the news and stuff, and it doesn't seem to bother anyone.
12:42 < Two_Dogs> i am looking forward to the internet package that includes this channel
12:42 < prawn> Eh, I'm not deep enough into your system to know what's whose responsibility
12:42 < rascul> something like net neutrality needs to go through congress, and iirc there are attempts at doing that currently
12:44 < prawn> The Congress with all the ISP sponsors?
12:45  * rascul shrugs
12:45 < Two_Dogs> i know comcast will do the right thing
12:45 < rascul> at least congress doesn't have isp employees like fcc does
12:45 < rascul> interestingly enough, the big isp's are the biggest advocates if you look behind the scenes
12:45 < rascul> they love the idea of regulation keeping competition away
12:47 < pingfloyd> never bet on comcast
12:48 < prawn> My condolences to everyone in the US 😘
12:48 < rascul> why?
12:48 < rascul> it's not like we had issues before this regulation was drafted
12:48 < rascul> we won't have issues now that it's repealed before it went into effect
12:49 < Two_Dogs> internet should be a utility like water and electricity, you dont see anyone throttling water and power, yet anyway
12:49 < prawn> DCMA? ISPs have been messing with stuff for years wherever they can
12:50 < prawn> Saying you have _no_ problems is a bit of an exaggerating
12:50 < vy> Triffid_Hunter: All the local-zone examples that I find is using a static ip, but I want to use a DNS server.
12:51 < prawn> Our countries are still chasing pirates
12:51 < vy> BCMM: Tried adding a forward-zone with name: "foo.mynetwork.com" and forward-addr: "dns-server-ip", but it did not work either.
12:51 < anddam> prawn: Xenial, that is 16, for now
12:52 < mawk> hi
12:53 < jim> hi
12:54 < prawn> anddam: well, upgrading to 18 should give you a newer kernel and thus potentially newer firmware. I think there might also be a backports thing to give you the newer kernel on the older release but talk to a Ubuntu or at least Debian user about that. Is something broken/not working currently?
12:54 < mawk> vy: unbound ?
12:55 < anddam> prawn: no, everything's fine, just doing some spring cleaning
12:55 < anddam> prawn: LTS will receive automatic update after 18.04.1 is released
12:55 < anddam> so around june/july
12:56 < vy> mawk: Yes.
12:56 < mawk> vy: if I understood correctly what you want to do, you need to use a stub zone
12:56 < vy> mawk: I just want all *.mynetwork.com queries to be redirected to a particular DNS server.
12:57 < vy> mawk: I also tried that too. But had no luck either.
12:57 < mawk> stub-zone: name: "mynetwork.com." stub-addr: "1.2.3.4"
12:58 < vy> mawk: My last lines of /etc/unbound/unbound.conf are exactly as you wrote. I do a "unbound-checkconf && systemctl restart unbound.service", but "host foo.mynetwork.com" still returns NXDOMAIN.
12:59 < mawk> try to flush the cache for that zone
13:00 < mawk> unbound-control flush_zone mynetwork.com.
13:00 < mawk> but that should be done by the restart I guess
13:00 < vy> Nope.
13:01 < vy> Can I list the cached entries, maybe?
13:01 < vy> I tried so many things, maybe caches are polluted quite some.
13:01 < mawk> unbound-control dump_cache|fgrep mynetwork.com.
13:03 < vy> mawk: Indeed after restart dump_cache|grep returns empty. Though "host foo.myservice.com" still is not resolved. Even though "host foo.myservice.com <stub-addr-i-used>" works perfectly.
13:04 < mawk> is myservice.com. mentionned elsewhere in the unbound config ?
13:05 < mawk> you didn't forget the dot at the end of the domain names ?
13:08 < Dan39> what is with the dot at the end?
13:09 < jim> example, google.com. which is really google.com.(nothing)
13:10 < djph> Dan39: it's the "anchor" of sorts (kinda like how all *nix paths are 'anchored' to "/")
13:10 < jhodrien> If you don't have the anchor, you can find that you use a search path, and end up with google.com.mydomain.com being hit.
13:10 < maccampus> Is iT true Linux Will frie Apple hardware?
13:10 < ||JD||> Dan39: it means the name is a FQDN
13:10 < jim> and it makes sure that someone can't come along and hijack it, like this: something.google.com.my.pirate.host.mydomain.org
13:11 < djph> the "real(tm)" path is ".com.google.www" (but it was decided that "www.google.com" made more sense)
13:11 < jim> maccampus, I don't think so, where did you see that?
13:11 < jhodrien> You tend to use most specific -> least specific when you write addresses in the real world.
13:11 < djph> maccampus: No
13:12 < BCMM> maccampus: "fry"? "free"?
13:12 < maccampus> No frie as in boil in oil
13:12 < jhodrien> No.
13:12 < djph> jhodrien: true ... but I mean if we got told to write them as "com.google.www", we'd adapt.
13:13 < pingfloyd> maccampus: you actually believe it?
13:13 < pingfloyd> maccampus: did someone in the McCult tell you that?
13:13 < jhodrien> Sure.  It's the same deal with ISO format dates.
13:13 < jim> no, it shouldn't do that, if it does, then apple is selling expensive crap hardware that is meant to be destroyed
13:13 < BCMM> it bothers me that http urls get less specific until the /, and then start getting more specific again
13:13 < BCMM> it's like reading American-formatted dates or something
13:13 < jhodrien> :)
13:14 < maccampus> Yea because Linux doesnt support smc
13:14 < pingfloyd> maccampus: hint: those "geniuses" are really noobs
13:17 < djph> smc ... ?
13:17 < pingfloyd> djph: That's Apple's proprietary controller
13:17 < pingfloyd> System Management Controller
13:18 < pingfloyd> enforces license and controls power management, battery etc.
13:18 < djph> ohh, "linux doesn't support a proprietary controller that no one other than the manufacturer has the specs for" ... THAT old argument
13:18 < pingfloyd> like ACPI gone dictator
13:18 < revel> jhodrien: You write addresses as least specific to most specific? Funny, that's generally the opposite of how that works here.
13:18 < pingfloyd> djph: pretty much
13:18 < jhodrien> "You tend to use most specific -> least specific when you write addresses in the real world."
13:18 < djph> and here I thought it was gonna be something fun to do with solenoid valves :(
13:18 < pingfloyd> djph: a completely flawed argument to begin with
13:19 < pingfloyd> djph: this is why I asked if he heard that from a McCul
13:19 < revel> jhodrien: I mean in the real world, yes.
13:19 < pingfloyd> McCult
13:19 < djph> pingfloyd: Yup, figured that one out on my own. (coffee power! hehe)
13:19 < jhodrien> So the opposite of what you just wrote.  Most specific to start, least specific to finish.
13:19 < revel> I'd write "23 Pine Road, New York" or whatever instead of the other way around.
13:19 < jhodrien> So exactly what I said then.
13:20 < djph> revel: that's most-specific (23 Pine Road) to least (New York)
13:20 < rascul> yep
13:20 < revel> Oh, whoops, misread it.
13:20 < pingfloyd> blame linux, something that is completely open and transparent, but a problem imposed by proprietary and closed software owned by companies
13:20 < rascul> nfc who thought it was a good idea to do dates the way we do them
13:20 < pingfloyd> *closed hardware
13:20 < Two_Dogs> djph: yeah? leave out the NY and you go where?
13:20 < djph> well, assuming we don't break "23 Pine Road" down any further :)
13:20 < jhodrien> The SMC should still operate safely though, just potentially more noisily or less quickly as a result.
13:20 < rascul> at least dates and time is something the us military tends to get correct
13:21 < rascul> military dates are 23 april 2017, times that matter are zulu time
13:21 < jhodrien> ISO gets it better.
13:22 < Two_Dogs> i felt a chill when i saw 'zulu time'
13:22 < djph> Two_Dogs: who cares, the point is that the city ("New York") is less-specific than the street ("Pine Road"), which in turn is less specific than the address ("23")
13:22 < rascul> the military date time group is kinda weird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_and_time_notation_in_the_United_States#Date-time_group
13:22 < TheDcoder> Hello, I have a question about permissions. I have a folder inside my Home folder, which allows a group to have read and write access, but that group does not have write access to my home folder, will this setup work?
13:22 < djph> TheDcoder: sure
13:22 < jim> TheDcoder, that should be fine
13:23  * TheDcoder is slowly starting to realize how dumb the question is...
13:23 < djph> TheDcoder: I think (and could be wrong) that the group will also need at least execute permissions on your home directory as well (so they can traverse the path)
13:23 < jim> it's not, unix-style perms take some getting used to
13:23 < jhodrien> TheDcoder: They need execute permission on your home.
13:23 < BCMM> TheDcoder: you just realised you have write access to your home directory, but not to /home/, right?
13:23 < BCMM> :)
13:23 < pingfloyd> haha
13:23 < jhodrien> Execute is the only permission they need on parent directories.
13:24 < TheDcoder> /home/TheDcoder
13:24 < TheDcoder> the folder is inside that
13:24 < pingfloyd> TheDcoder: directory!
13:24 < TheDcoder> Oh... I did not realize they needed execute permission
13:24 < pingfloyd> folder is a Windows and Mac term
13:24 < TheDcoder> how do I give a group execute permission to my home directory?
13:24 < pingfloyd> and apologist DE term
13:25 < jim> windows stole it from mac :)
13:25 < djph> TheDcoder: 'others' have --x
13:25 < jhodrien> ACLs is the best way.
13:25 < pingfloyd> jim: they did
13:25 < jim> who in turn stole it from zerox/parc :)
13:25 < pingfloyd> jim: msdos used the term directory though
13:25 < djph> TheDcoder: (i.e. /home/TheDcoder => drwxr-x--x )
13:25 < TheDcoder> Got it...
13:25 < TheDcoder> thanks
13:26 < pingfloyd> just goes to show that Microsoft has no principles
13:26 < djph> TheDcoder: that's absolute minimum.  I *THINK* that defaults are drwxr-xr-x
13:27 < pingfloyd> I like 700 better
13:27 < TheDcoder> nice
13:27 < pingfloyd> or 770
13:27 < TheDcoder> The group already has execute permissions
13:27 < TheDcoder> so I should be good
13:28 < djph> pingfloyd: I usually go with 700 on multi-user systems
13:28 < rascul> needs read also to ls the directory
13:28 < pingfloyd> 750 would probably be what you want
13:28 < j0seph> pingfloyd:
13:28 < Two_Dogs> i let dolphin figure it out
13:28 < j0seph> whoops
13:28 < j0seph> Was shaking my keyboard off
13:28 < TheDcoder> rascul: got it, but ls is not necessary
13:28 < djph> pingfloyd: me? nah, all the users are in the same group ('users'),
13:29 < j0seph> but, i did actually want to say something haha
13:29 < pingfloyd> j0seph: TheDcoder
13:29 < pingfloyd> as in no point in letting other have any access either way
13:29 < j0seph> pingfloyd: they called it folder because they gave it a folder icon. just think, they could have given it any icon and called it anything
13:29 < j0seph> like ice cream
13:30 < Two_Dogs> pingfloyd: +1
13:30 < rascul> cd would have to be renamed to cic
13:30 < pingfloyd> j0seph: or keep calling what it was always called, a directory.
13:30 < TheDcoder> LOL
13:30 < j0seph> pingfloyd: obviously that would be out of their playing field of making sense
13:31  * epicmetal installs all the desktops
13:32 < epicmetal> going to really dirty up this install
13:32 < pingfloyd> the opposite of minimalist
13:32 < pingfloyd> you're a bloatist
13:32 < TheDcoder> maximalist
13:32 < j0seph> everything is maximalist when you use i3 or openbox.
13:33 < TheDcoder> lol
13:33 < pingfloyd> why stop there
13:33 < pingfloyd> no X at all
13:33 < rascul> why stop there
13:33 < TheDcoder> no processor at all
13:33 < rascul> no terminal at all
13:33 < pingfloyd> I strive for having only bloat I like on the system
13:33 < j0seph> you communicate with the machine via astral projection
13:34 < pingfloyd> use toggle switches to operate in binary
13:34 < rascul> punch cards are bloat
13:34 < TheDcoder> 10101101
13:34 < j0seph> pingfloyd: you mean to say you don't use punchcards?
13:34 < pingfloyd> like rascul said, punch cards are bloat
13:34 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: i'm sure i'll hate myself soon
13:34 < j0seph> ah, i look at my keyboard when i type
13:34 < TheDcoder> 0
13:34 < j0seph> didn't see that
13:34 < j0seph> hahaha
13:35 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: I onced ruined a perfectly good debian installation that way
13:35 < j0seph> i strive for having whatever i find useful on my system. lol.
13:35 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: how so, couldn't you just uninstall it all
13:36 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: yeah, but it can be time consuming sometimes
13:36 < TheDcoder> 0 1 10 11 100 110 111 1000 1100 1110 1111
13:36 < stevendale> 15 degrees Celsius outside
13:36 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: ah yeah. and debian gets complicated with those dependencies
13:36 < stevendale> Brrrrr
13:36 < stevendale> Cold
13:36  * stevendale is Australian
13:36 < j0seph> there are 10 types of people in this world. those who understand binary, and those who don't.
13:37 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: yeah unravelling the dependencies to find the key packages to remove
13:37 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: pacman should sort me out though, it's really good at ripping stuff out
13:37 < rascul> TheDcoder it's impossible to properly read that, since it's not clear how many bits are involved or what type of binary coding it is
13:37 < TheDcoder> j0seph: I guess I am the 10nd type
13:37 < pingfloyd> the thing is that recommends aren't counted in an autoremove by default
13:37 < epicmetal> i remember my debian days though, when you'd expect some package to get pulled, but it stays due to a soft dependency or the like
13:37 < epicmetal> yeah that
13:38 < Two_Dogs> for the longest time i thought i kept seeing packman spelled wrong
13:38 < epicmetal> arch gets rid of them by default
13:38 < epicmetal> not even sure how to prevent that tbqh
13:38 < TheDcoder> rascul: add 0 padding when necessary
13:38 < pingfloyd> you can change that though, but then you have to go back and mark as manual the recommends you want to keep
13:38 < joekeilty> Any idea why I can't grep or direct output of 'python —version'?
13:38 < rascul> TheDcoder but pad to what? and is it signed or unsigned?
13:38 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: also wasn't there that weird transition phase where aptitude had separate richer metadata (separate db)
13:38 < joekeilty> e.g. python —version > pyver && cat pyver     - this outputs version info to my terminal, but pyver is empty
13:39 < epicmetal> i.e. aptitude could uninstall the cruft but apt couldn't
13:39 < epicmetal> apt as in apt-get, not /usr/bin/apt
13:39 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: it's nothing difficult if you're used to debian, but a pita enough to make you go "screw it. fresh minimal install and and install as I go from there"
13:39 < epicmetal> heh
13:39 < TheDcoder> rascul: depends on your processor's interpretation :)
13:39 < epicmetal> i really want to run slackware but i can't bring myself to accept some of their design decisions
13:39 < Two_Dogs> aptitude is god like in comparison to apt-get
13:40 < pingfloyd> Two_Dogs: I know them both well
13:40 < rascul> TheDcoder looks like you skipped a few numbers anyway ;)
13:40 < Two_Dogs> pingfloyd: dont you find aptitude most useful?
13:40 < TheDcoder> haha, my binary skills are not good
13:40 < pingfloyd> the thing aptitude has going for it is its advanced searching functionality
13:40 < TheDcoder> that is why I was practising my skills
13:40 < pingfloyd> and the tui is very handy for certain situations
13:40 < pingfloyd> but I use apt-get like 99% of time
13:40 < TheDcoder> dnf kicks ass...
13:41 < pingfloyd> because it is so convenient
13:41 < joekeilty> Answer to my question - python —version outputs to stderr -_-
13:41  * epicmetal scratches dirt off screen
13:41 < Two_Dogs> tell me how to apt-get 'aptitude purge ~nakonadi'
13:42 < rascul> when i'm on debian i use apt just because it's less typing and i don't need to guess which apt-tool does what
13:42 < epicmetal> something about /usr/bin/apt annoyed me
13:42 < epicmetal> in my brief stint with the latest debian stable
13:42 < fendur> it has a color status bar, what else could you ask for?
13:43 < epicmetal> haha
13:43 < Dan39> ooo pretty colors
13:43 < rascul> Two_Dogs you can do 'apt-get purge'
13:44 < pingfloyd> reminiscent of sudo su
13:44 < Two_Dogs> rascul: ok, but i want all of anything with akonadi in package name
13:44 < rascul> does apt-get not do pattern matching?
13:44 < pingfloyd> apt-get purge "akanadi*"
13:45 < epicmetal> apt-get maybe the windows telemetry is worth it
13:45 < Two_Dogs> pingfloyd: thats only for akonadixxxxx
13:46 < pingfloyd> well what's the pattern you're trying to match then?
13:46 < pingfloyd> there's "*akonadi*" if you want
13:47 < Two_Dogs> fine, do a apt-get why akonadi
13:47 < Two_Dogs> go on
13:48 < rascul> why don't you do it and pastebin the results?
13:48 < rascul> not everyone here has lowered their standards to the point where they're using apt ;)
13:49 < epicmetal> wow, deepin is pretty
13:49 < Two_Dogs> lower standards :)
13:50 < Two_Dogs> there is lower, yum
13:50 < pingfloyd> I think we're all in agreement that the apt front-end is meh
13:50 < rascul> eh i meant apt*
13:50 < TheDcoder> there is lower than yum, dnf
13:50 < rascul> apt as in the set of tools, not the command
13:51 < epicmetal> more naming confusion
13:51 < rascul> TheDcoder sure, i agree, i never did like yum and dnf didn't seem any better for usage
13:51 < epicmetal> horray autism
13:51 < epicmetal> hooray*
13:51 < Dan39> yea it's not as bad as waiting 30 whole seconds for dnf to just start up before it even does anything
13:51 < pingfloyd> haha
13:51 < Dan39> what are you doing dnf!!??
13:51 < Two_Dogs> dont yum and dnf belong to same distro? fedora?
13:51 < rascul> yes
13:52 < Dan39> but i read they were rewriting it all in C
13:52 < TheDcoder> yum is deprecated
13:52 < rascul> they're working on replacing yum with dnf
13:52 < pingfloyd> aptitude is also slower than apt-*
13:52 < j0seph> Two_Dogs: gee, fedora, how come mum let you have TWO package managerd?
13:52 < j0seph> managers*
13:52 < TheDcoder> isn't dnf written in python or something?
13:52 < Dan39> rascul: not working on anymore, it is replaced
13:52 < Two_Dogs> j0seph: mum gave me one dad, zypper
13:52 < Dan39> for many fedora releases
13:52 < rascul> Dan39 ok, i don't follow crap distros like those from red hat, so i didn't know
13:52 < pingfloyd> they forced it down their user's throat in true RH fashion
13:52 < Dan39> now they are working on porting it from python to C
13:53 < epicmetal> how the hell is Deepin DE not more popular
13:53 < rascul> last time i touched fedora it had both yum and dnf, it may have been the first release with dnf
13:53 < TheDcoder> hmm...
13:53 < epicmetal> is it the China stigma?
13:53 < TheDcoder> epicmetal: Yes
13:53 < Dan39> since like i said, currently, it often spends like 30 actual seconds sitting there doing absolutely nothing when you go to do a simple dnf search, before it shows even the 1st line of text
13:53 < epicmetal> TheDcoder: i'm only 5 min in, but it's really impressive
13:54 < epicmetal> i'm sure i'll hate it soon, but still
13:54 < rascul> epicmetal it's a debian derivative, so it's crap
13:54 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: probably because of mainstream dist politics
13:54 < rascul> no wonder it's not popular
13:54 < epicmetal> rascul: the DE, not the distro
13:54 < rascul> oh
13:54 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: ah
13:54 < Dan39> ewww
13:54 < epicmetal> omg am i a china botnet node
13:54 < rascul> yes
13:54 < epicmetal> :)
13:54 < Dan39> deepin's site has an "APPSTORE"...
13:54 < TheDcoder> LOL
13:55  * epicmetal uninstalls and frantically runs ss/tcpdump
13:55 < Dan39> ooo look at the water sloshing around in the loading circle http://appstore.deepin.org/
13:55 < Two_Dogs> opensuse aptstore kicks the llamas :)
13:55 < pingfloyd> I kind of hate the app store trend
13:56 < Dan39> looks like that's all the appstore is going to do, show me a fancy loading graphic
13:56 < Two_Dogs> pingfloyd: its good, one stop shop
13:56 < epicmetal> the deepin settings UI is just a 1/4 screen overlay along the right screen edge
13:56 < Two_Dogs> click click and done with install
13:56 < pingfloyd> Dan39: all I get is the water since I haven't whitelisted its javascript yet
13:56 < epicmetal> feels like a mobile OS settings UI
13:56 < Dan39> oh there it does, how long was that?
13:56 < epicmetal> nice and quick and featureful
13:57 < Dan39> somebody must have put a lot of work into this appstore
13:58 < Two_Dogs> our store allows guests to procure goods
13:58 < epicmetal> and it has fractional display scaling.......... how the hell
13:58 < pingfloyd> apps stores are a ploy to get more information
13:58 < epicmetal> how can gnome not implement this if deepin can
13:58 < pingfloyd> registration nonsense
13:58 < Dan39> oh, wonderful, right on the appstore homepage one of the top options to install... adobe flash player! weee
13:58 < Two_Dogs> our store allows anymouse guests to procure goods
13:59 < pingfloyd> don't need no registrations in the free world
13:59 < Dan39> and winrar hahahaha
13:59 < pingfloyd> there's always gnome software center for those that like sort of thing
14:00 < TheDcoder> I like WinRar
14:00 < Dan39> oh, wow, ummm. its like right at the top of the main page, but...
14:01 < Dan39> 1.8/5 average reviews, first review says: "No English or Spanish translation :-("
14:01 < Dan39> lmfao it's only in chinese
14:01 < epicmetal> i haven't even seen an appstore yet
14:01 < Dan39> i'm not even kidding... http://appstore.deepin.org/app/apps.cn.com.winrar
14:01 < epicmetal> oh it's a website
14:02 < pingfloyd> not too much before a cortana for linux comes to a computer near you
14:02 < pingfloyd> *much longer
14:02 < TheDcoder> app store is taking ages load
14:02 < Dan39> "Hello, application emulated with crossover only Chinese lang"
14:02 < Dan39> that's deepin for ya :P
14:02 < whytrytofly> hello
14:02 < whytrytofly> i was compiling a piece of software, now i wnat to write a script and put it to /usr/bin to be able to start it globally
14:03 < whytrytofly> can i simply do "sh /path/to/file"?
14:03 < Dan39> whytrytofly: what is the ultimate goal here?
14:03 < pingfloyd> Dan39: it's the New Linux
14:03 < pingfloyd> founded by Jian Yang
14:04 < Dan39> on home page, Hot Topics, 1st one is: "Why trust a Chinese Distribution?"
14:04 < Two_Dogs> Opera hopes you do ^^
14:04 < mawk> I'm transitionning from C++14 to C++17
14:04 < mawk> I'm like a kid at christmas
14:04 < mawk> https://isocpp.org/files/papers/p0636r0.html
14:04 < mawk> look at all these nice changes
14:05 < pingfloyd> Dan39: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km5XQxRrQvw
14:05 < TheDcoder> 【Official Statement】Linux Deepin is not Spyware
14:05 < TheDcoder> one of the topics in community news
14:05 < pingfloyd> haha
14:05 < pingfloyd> complicated business strategy
14:06 < Dan39> loving it pingfloyd . ive watched a decent few silicon valley, enjoyed it.
14:07 < pingfloyd> I'm sure it will be yet another flavor of the month dist
14:07 < whytrytofly> Dan39: i compiled a program for someone who is not used to using the terminal
14:07 < whytrytofly> Dan39: i want that person to have somewhere to click to startthe rpogram
14:07 < pingfloyd> whytrytofly: is he more used to neural interface?
14:08 < whytrytofly> pingfloyd: whats that
14:08 < ananke> whytrytofly: you don't have to use 'sh' to execute it. just put it in /usr/local/bin and make sure it's executable
14:09 < supernovah> Anyone familiar with setting up postfix with dovecot? I generated two keys, an /etc/ssl/certs/mailcert.pem and /etc/ssl/private/mail.key, but I'm getting all sorts of problems with sasl, emails being sent without TLS and not being able to log into it with Outlook... is there a concise guide somewhere
14:09 < pingfloyd> whytrytofly: you can create a .desktop file that runs in terminal
14:09 < pingfloyd> whytrytofly: if the issue is that you're trying to get some CLI/TUI program to run at a click
14:09 < whytrytofly> pingfloyd: yes!
14:09 < whytrytofly> pingfloyd: thanks, nice idea
14:10 < Dan39> whytrytofly: really though, what is the ultimate goal here? why are you creating this program, what does it do?
14:10 < pingfloyd> whytrytofly: many DEs have a user friendly program to make desktop files easy, you can of course make them manually instead.  The spec is on free desktop's page.
14:10 < Dan39> whytrytofly: but yes at least put it in /usr/local, never /usr/bin
14:10 < rascul> supernovah you could try #postfix
14:11 < Dan39> ideally you'd make a package instead of building from source by hand, but that can be a pain in the ass depending on the distro
14:11 < pingfloyd> I usually just run from build dir in my home where practical
14:12 < Dan39> same, or do a ~/.local install
14:12 < rascul> if there's no package and i'm feeling lazy, i also do a ~/.local
14:12 < rascul> i'll probably even keep the source in ~/.local/src heh
14:13 < whytrytofly> Dan39: i was compiling qtox since there is no package in mint/ubuntu
14:13 < whytrytofly> Dan39: now i want this to be accessible easyily
14:13 < Dan39> on debian years ago i use to use some program that would let me do just do the compile stuff then like `packageit make install` and it would automatically make it into a lazy package
14:13 < rascul> yeah there's a few things that do that
14:14 < rascul> checkinstall might be the name of one of them
14:14 < rascul> sometimes you can do 'make install-rpm' or 'make install-deb'
14:14 < Dan39> checkinstall, that was it
14:15 < Dan39> allowed some args to specify deps and description too, was easy. i never did get to fully understand deb packages from scratch despite trying a few times
14:16 < Dan39> the structure just seemed so unnecessarily complicated
14:16 < Dan39> vs like a PKGBUILD
14:16 < rascul> if you don't necessarily care about it being a .deb then porg could be useful, it was built originally for lfs to track the packages http://porg.sourceforge.net/
14:16 < rascul> it just creates a text file of all the installed files so they can be easily removed or packaged into a tarball
14:19 < Eimerzz> Hey. I installed german and english on my linux system but every error is displayed now in german. How can I change it to english?
14:20 < TheDcoder> what DE are you using Eimerzz?
14:20 < TheDcoder> or distro
14:22 < Eimerzz> TheDcoder: arch and dwm.
14:22 < pingfloyd> there's also make -n install
14:22 < Eimerzz> I mean I set the language to german but why is everything in german? This is just silly.
14:23 < jim> Eimerzz, when you run commands in the shell, you can: LC_ALL=C cmd arg1 arg2
14:23 < pingfloyd> something like: make -n install &> install.log
14:23 < rascul> Eimerzz https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Locale
14:23 < TheDcoder> Change the primary to english
14:25 < Eimerzz> Thanks
14:34 < anddam> can I manually add firmwares from https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/i915 to my system?
14:35 < rascul> you can, it goes in /lib/firmware somewhere, but why do you need to do it manually? it should already be in your distro's repos
14:36 < anddam> rascul: it is not
14:36 < rascul> what distro?
14:36 < anddam> Ubuntu LTS
14:36 < rascul> yes, it would be in there already
14:36 < TheDcoder> Oh no... the binary blobs
14:37 < rascul> it's the linux-firmware package, it includes the i915 stuff
14:37 < anddam> I have linux-firmware  1.157.17, it has skl_dmc 1.26 vs. 1.27 in repo,skl_guc 6.1 versus 9.33
14:38 < rascul> you just want newer firmware?
14:38 < anddam> not even sure I need those, I only see the DMC module loaded in dmesg, but I was wondering if manually copying it would work
14:38 < anddam> I mean I can wait for the package to update, it's a question for the sake of curiosity
14:39 < rascul> you can install it manually like i mentioned
14:39 < anddam> it should work unless the newer binary blob requires some feature from a kernel newer that I have
14:39 < anddam> rascul: where are manually installation mentioned?
14:39 < rascul> /lib/firmware somewhere
14:40 < rascul> just cp the stuff to wherever the expected location is
14:40 < anddam> oh sorry, "like I mentioned", I missed the "I" part and thought there were some upstream instructions for manual install
14:41 < rascul> oh, i was referring to my first reply to you where i mentioned putting it in /lib/firmware
14:42 < rascul> i'm not exactly sure if you can just drop it in /lib/firmware or if it needs a specific path in /lib/firmware but you should be able to see where the older one is and just put it there after making a backup
14:42 < rascul> also you might just be able to install the linux-firmware package from latest ubuntu
14:47 < anddam> rascul: yes, I figured I'd place those near files from linux-firmware
14:47 < anddam> (and call update-initramfs after)
14:47 < anddam> thanks
14:53 < BluesKaj> Howdy folks
14:57 < Two_Dogs> BluesKaj: hey
14:58 < BluesKaj> hi Two_Dogs
15:00 < ButtholeFungus> I have dmenu installed but some things are not showing up in the menu even thouhg they are in my path. I deleted the cache as well. What do?
15:00 < madan> how to change vim background from blak to white
15:01 < madan> from ssh ?
15:01 < madan> how to change vim background from black to white
15:01 < rumpel> madan, terminal settings
15:02 < madan> ok
15:03 < madan> @rumpel editing a .vimrc file ?
15:03 < rumpel> madan, I doubt it
15:03 < madan> ok
15:03 < ycarene> How do I have the system reparse .xXresources?
15:05 < jim> I don't know the answer to that one, I don't think... could it be they would be reread if you rerun the program you want to have changed by the different resources?
15:05 < triceratux> ycarene: you have to do an xrdb -merge
15:06 < ycarene> ahh, ok
15:08 < ButtholeFungus> how do I get rid of all these joined/quit messages on weechat?
15:09 < ButtholeFungus> REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
15:09 < Armand> ButtholeFungus: Get rid of Weechat.
15:09 < Armand> You're welcome.
15:12 < safinaskar> i have external USB SSD with EXT4 on it. This SSD has no any power sources, i. e. it takes its power from USB only. Recently i decided to write a lot of data to it (something like "cp -r /lots-of-data /dest"), but power was lost during copying.    When i powered on my computer and tried to mount that EXT4 I got error message that my superblock is corrupted.    That disk DID NOT contain any important
15:12 < safinaskar> data, so I am not asking for help with restoring data.    I have purely theoretical question.   All this happens every time I power off my computer during big write.     But as well as know ext4 was designed to prevent this.   I. e. this behaviour contradicts very purpose of ext4 itself.    ext4 was designed not to crash file system.   Yes, you can lose your data.   But FS itself always will be
15:12 < safinaskar> consistent.   And now I see FS itself is corrupted (bad superblock).   So, this is a bug in ext4 and should be reported, right?
15:12 < notmike> No
15:12 < safinaskar> notmike: why?
15:13 < notmike> Because it sounds like a corrupt super block.
15:13 < iflema> ButtholeFungus: you can have it so it only shows people that spoke recently - a setting for x amount of time. or off
15:14 < notmike> safinaskar: you could restart the write with dd or try reformatting the drive, but your gonna have problems cutting power during a write
15:14 < ananke> safinaskar: seems you're extrapolating one time event into 'every time'. ext4 also has multiple superblocks
15:15 < ananke> safinaskar: so you can perform recovery by specifying alternate superblock
15:16 < ananke> safinaskar: not to mention, have you tried simply running fsck?
15:26 < safinaskar> notmike (also ananke): this happens every time. Moreover, this happend with other SSD devices, too. So, it seems there is no hardware problems. It seems that such behaviour is simply allowed. But I wonder whether this violates very purpose of ext4
15:27 < ananke> safinaskar: it doesn't violate the 'very purpose of ext4'
15:28 < safinaskar> notmike: what you mean when you say "restart the write with dd"? superblock is corrupted, i have only one possibility: to format the drive.   But I will again say that the data was not important.   I came here with theoretical question
15:28 < ananke> safinaskar: uhmm, again: did you run fsck?
15:28 < ananke> I seriously doubt that formatting is right now the only possibility
15:29 < Blinky_> guys I am trying to make a backup of my gnupg keys.  I have copied the entire directory but it wont copy the private-keys-v1.d.  Is this required and if so how do I copy that across to the safe location along with the other files?
15:29 < john_rambo>  https://paste2.org/GEmmG8sm  When I launch Firefox  with firejail pages are not loading ...Any ideas ?
15:30 < safinaskar> ananke: it happened multiply times. At least 2 times with different SSDs
15:31 < safinaskar> ananke: And it happens every time when I cut off power during write with this USD SSDs
15:31 < ananke> safinaskar: I'm not asking how often it happened. I asked a very different question.
15:31 < Louge> anyone ever set up acpi to get your special keys to work?
15:31 < Louge> their*
15:31 < safinaskar> ananke: i didn't run fsck :) thanks for advice, I will try next time
15:31 < safinaskar> ananke: this time i already formatted
15:33 < safinaskar> So, ext4 always saves consistency of file system, but may require running "fsck" after power outage, right? And FS will garantiere consistency, right?
15:34 < safinaskar> And all data written BEFORE some reasonable time before power outage (say, 1 minute) will be garanteered to preserve, right?
15:34 < revel> safinaskar: I don't think there's any guarantee, per se, but I think that's the general idea behind a journaling filesystem.
15:35 < safinaskar> revel: so, you mean I don't have any guarantee at all? WTF????????? this is VERY ANNOYING!!!
15:35 < solidfox> john_rambo, what is firejail
15:36 < safinaskar> revel: this means that it is simply theoretically impossible to create robust data storage on top of ext4. because it simply doesn't give any guarantees
15:36 < revel> safinaskar: Well, I haven't had any problems with ext4 and I've had power outages not cause any problems whatsoever. It seems to work pretty well. I'm just saying that they probably can't legally guarantee it.
15:36 < balance> hi
15:36 < BCMM> safinaskar: the only way to have that sort of guarantee is to sync after each write - at tremendous cost to performance
15:36 < balance> im on arch + i3 and was wondering if u guys could recommend me a system monitor tool that lets me display stats on my desktop background
15:37 < BCMM> safinaskar: regardless of the filesystem used, there is no way to avoid data loss on a surprise loss of power, while maintaining acceptable performance for a modern computer
15:37 < safinaskar> revel: of course i mean technical garantee, not legal
15:37 < dgurney> well, there can't be a technical one either
15:37 < dgurney> it's just not possible
15:37 < ananke> safinaskar: simmer down. we're not responsible for anything
15:37 < BCMM> safinaskar: i believe you can still mount with the `sync` option if you want to see how much that would suck
15:37 < revel> Well, I think BCMM is right there.
15:38 < barometz> for a given system you can probably find a time after which all data can reasonably be expected to have been finalized
15:38 < safinaskar> revel: i mean does ext4 itself garantee data safety assuming that: 1. power outage can happen in any minute 2. but hardware is working well, i. e. the disk itself is not mailfunctional       ?
15:38 < BCMM> but if you want to guarantee there is no loss of data when the power goes out, your options are pretty much that, or a UPS
15:38 < safinaskar> revel: at least for data written 1 minute before power outage
15:38 < revel> safinaskar: Google "journalling file system"
15:39 < revel> Journaling? One of those two.
15:39 < BCMM> safinaskar: (but note that even when mounted sync, the disk itself might cache writes in a small mount of built-in RAM - the OS is totally unaware of this and can not prevent it)
15:39 < BCMM> ^small amount of
15:40 < safinaskar> ok, thanks everybody
15:41 < pingfloyd> things like journal more shift the odds in your favor
15:41 < BCMM> journaling mostly makes sure the filesystem can be returned to a consistent state after such an event
15:42 < pingfloyd> no guarantee, just much less likely occurrence of running into a major issue
15:42 < BCMM> note, "a" consistent state - not always the absolute latest state.
15:42 < revel> He left already.
15:42 < pingfloyd> yep
15:42 < pingfloyd> they're two issues that you can encounter from the situations really
15:43 < pingfloyd> but hey, we keep workable backups right?
15:44 < notmike> I feel bad for that guy who thinks he has to reformat bbecause of a corrupted superblock
15:44 < notmike> What a tard
15:44 < pingfloyd> I had to do a really dangerous procedure the other night.  I made sure I was up to date on my backups first.  Sure glad I did, because it went as bad as it could.
15:44 < pingfloyd> I knew I was playing with fire though
15:45 < JimBuntu> snapshot -> AMI -> Newly cloned instance -> test dangerous stuff
15:47 < interrobangd> could i mount other mounts from other mount namespaces?
15:49 < notmike> Only use AMI if you don't care about intellectual property rights
15:51 < pingfloyd> they own your first born for simply selling you service
15:53 < BluesKaj> BBL
15:54 < JimBuntu> notmike, why do you say that? Are intellectual property rights effected by creating a private AMI?
15:55 < notmike> Yes, because Amazon can read the memory
15:55 < notmike> Or do deep packet inspection
15:55 < notmike> So can your isp
15:55 < JimBuntu> Most any modern data center could do that, every and all could do the packet inspection
15:56 < notmike> Right, right
15:56 < notmike> Buuuut
15:56 < ananke> you're confusing intellectual property rights with privacy
15:56 < notmike> If you control the device and encrypt you're Golden
15:56 < notmike> ananke: I'm not confusing them. I'm stating that one is essential to the other.
15:57 < notmike> You can't have IP if you don't have privacy.
15:57 < JimBuntu> notmike, yes, owning the device, building it yourself, keeping it physically secured... very good route to reduce tampering.
15:57 < ananke> notmike: except you seem to be referring only to IP
15:58 < TomyWork> notmike that's like saying you can't be alive next to a guy with a gun
15:59 < notmike> IP is just one example
15:59 < TomyWork> you have the right to live, the guy next to you could take it in an instant, but he would be breaking the law
16:00 < TomyWork> same with amazon. if they steal your IP, that is theft. it does not invalidate your *right* to intellectual property
16:00 < notmike> I'm not sure there is a natural right to live. But he could certainly deprive me of my life unjustly.
16:00 < TomyWork> notmike that is irrelevant to a legal argument
16:01 < notmike> I think that depends who is making it
16:01 < TomyWork> unless you were not building this up as a legal argument
16:01 < notmike> The state can certainly deprive me of my life and would agree that I have no natural right to live indefinitely.
16:01 < jhodrien> Surely you can have IP without privacy.  I can release software under the GPL can't I?
16:02 < notmike> Omg The hippies are here
16:02 < jhodrien> Wow, that's a grown up way to try to shut someone down.
16:04 < notmike> I'm not trying to shut you down, per se. Only the GPL is a deeply flawed license, and not one which is copyfree.
16:05 < TomyWork> notmike it is not legal for amazon to steal your IP. agree or disagree?
16:05 < notmike> It would not be legal in most jurisdictions, no.
16:05 < notmike> Probably
16:06 < TomyWork> case closed then, we need not argue further
16:06 < notmike> But they have more lawyers
16:06 < notmike> And more money than most.
16:06 < fendur> ++ money goes a LONG way when it comes to the law
16:06 < notmike> The law works for those who can afford it
16:07 < fendur> the law is NOT the end all be all of protection
16:07 < TomyWork> well then you can't use the cloud
16:07 < notmike> Awww :(
16:07 < TomyWork> which is fine. i don't use it, either.... directly
16:07 < SuperSeriousCat> Steal your IP? O.o
16:07 < ananke> not sure how you propose that amazon would be able to use lawyers to justify IP theft
16:07 < notmike> They wouldn't. They'd use the lawyers to ensure we never get to talking about IP theft
16:08 < JimBuntu> For those seriously interested, please see the AWS user agreement, specifically the non-assert of patents portion.
16:08 < ananke> notmike: how exactly do you propose that?
16:09 < SuperSeriousCat> No one can steal IPs. Your ISP own those
16:09 < uplime> you guys mean intellectual property right?
16:09 < ananke> uplime: yes
16:09 < uplime> ok
16:09 < Psi-Jack> heh
16:09 < SuperSeriousCat> :P
16:09 < JimBuntu> nice SuperSeriousCat
16:10  * SuperSeriousCat only read the last couple of lines
16:10 < uplime> SuperSeriousCat: me too
16:11 < notmike> ananke: pre-trial motions, continuances, changes of venue, motions for default judgment (due to timeliness, lack of cause, etc), they can just bleed your legal fund dry.
16:12 < fendur> The tobacco industry is super good at that.
16:12 < notmike> Can't even sue Amazon according to the ToS. Gotta arbitrate
16:12 < fendur> an excellent example of how to use money to break the law.
16:13 < fendur> They have a lot of money, and they kill a lot of people with their products.
16:13 < Psi-Jack> Anyone have any Linux questions or discussions to bring up to break up this off-topic?
16:13 < revel> Why is Android so weird and annyoing?
16:14 < notmike> Why did that guy think he had to reformat because of a bad superblock? What would you have done?
16:14 < ayecee> linux OS - great OS, or the greatest OS? discuss.
16:14 < ][_R_][> Least worst OS for sure
16:14 < leftyfb> ayecee: linux isn't an OS, it's a kernel
16:14 < fendur> POW!
16:14 < TomyWork> quoth the stallman
16:15 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: what was the single most significant issue that rubs you the wrong way with ubuntu 18.04 ?
16:15 < ayecee> leftyfb, pedant or pederast? discuss.
16:15 < ananke> notmike: point is, you propose that they can and are willing to do it in the first place, and that their lawyers would be able to make this a non issue. the 'willingness' to violate IP laws is a big presumption
16:15 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: It exists.
16:15 < tonyt> android is just a stripped down version of linux
16:15 < plain-user> i have linux questions
16:15 < triceratux> rofl
16:15 < leftyfb> seriously though, the only people running "Linux" as an OS and nothing more have built using LFS. It's just really not a thing.
16:15 < fendur> ananke: if there's money in it...
16:16 < ayecee> maybe both!
16:16 < ananke> fendur: unlikely
16:16 < Psi-Jack> plain-user: Please, ask away.
16:16 < fendur> ananke: I believe you underestimate the selfish greed of the capitalist.
16:16 < SuperSeriousCat> You have many packages in LFS. Not just the kernel
16:16 < ananke> potential loss of business would be much worse
16:16 < notmike> ananke: idk, since when are corporations assumed to be good actors and not trying to pad their bottom line. In fact, IP wars have been a theme of the last 20+ years.
16:16 < plain-user> i am trying to pad a  $   file words.txt     ----    words.txt: ASCII text, with CRLF line terminators   with spaces, such that every line of it has 16 characters.
16:17 < uplime> didn't you already ask how to do that?
16:17 < plain-user> I am using this to do it: cat words-cut.txt |while read line; do printf '% -16s\n' "${line}"; done > words-padded.txt
16:17 < TomyWork> notmike and they have been fought in the streets?
16:17 < leftyfb> SuperSeriousCat: I'm actually very unfamiliar with LFS and only know of it and the most basic idea of it. I assumed it was all built from source. Are there actual packages?
16:17 < ananke> notmike: certainly, that has been a huge issue. however, the scenario proposed here is much different than what's typically happening
16:17 < JimBuntu> leftyfb, it should all be built from scratch, but the site/docs have you do more than only the kernel
16:18 < plain-user> i am ending up with output such as abbey^M    with that ending character at the end of each word and it is this: words-padded.txt: ASCII text, with CRLF, CR, LF line terminators
16:18 < notmike> TomyWork: yeah blood we out here banging MTAs
16:18 < leftyfb> JimBuntu: sure, but I'd say that's the closest to "linux OS" as you can get
16:18 < SuperSeriousCat> leftyfb, I installed it to test once. It is all the packages in chapter 6 here as base. http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/
16:18 < ananke> amazon is a publicly traded company. they would not be able to afford even a whiff of bad press if they got accused of IP theft
16:18 < notmike> ananke: sure, would be a huge scandal
16:18 < oiaohm> leftyfb: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter06/pkgmgt.html  LFS is basically how to build a standard gnu based Linux distribution from source with your own design ideas.
16:19 < triceratux> amazon is already a huge scandal. its not affecting their bottom line
16:19 < Psi-Jack> We have a couple people trying to be on-topic, and a crowd of people still off-topic drowning out the on-topic people...
16:19 < fendur> Psi-Jack: what can you do?
16:19 < SuperSeriousCat> Amazon is great as stock tho
16:19 < leftyfb> oiaohm: I get that much... I just wasn't aware of how or if it dealt with package management or if it just expected you to build every last thing from source.
16:19 < Psi-Jack> Make people off-topic stop and refocus. :)
16:20 < SuperSeriousCat> Profits all the way. Just like Netflix stocks is
16:20 < fendur> Psi-Jack: do it!
16:20 < Psi-Jack> Its been done.
16:20  * fendur giggles.
16:20 < ayecee> you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him pay attention to it
16:20 < SuperSeriousCat> Push him in and he pays attention to the water
16:21 < uplime> what if the horse is blind?
16:21 < Psi-Jack> plain-user: Hmm. Nor sure I understand, especially with you breaking up your messages like you did, splitting focus.
16:21 < SuperSeriousCat> attention is more than sight
16:21 < TomyWork> uplime dip its mouth in
16:21 < ayecee> what if the horse is dead?
16:22 < TomyWork> good one
16:22 < oiaohm> leftyfb: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-user-space-apps/index.html  also the Linux kernel is a little more complex than most think as well.  Like there are different kernel mode events that cause the Linux kernel to start usermode applications.
16:22 < JimBuntu> ayecee, then try beating it
16:22 < ayecee> i've been beating it and beating it, but it doesn't seem to make a difference
16:22 < leftyfb> oiaohm: yes, I'm aware
16:22 < leftyfb> but again, "Linux OS" doesn't really exist
16:22 < fendur> ayecee: oh boy...
16:22 < notmike> Slackware is the best distro
16:23 < ayecee> people are starting to look at me funny
16:23 < oneko> No
16:23 < oneko> Arch is the best distro
16:23 < fendur> notmike: during which time period?
16:23 < uplime> ayecee: stop beating a dead horse
16:23 < JimBuntu> plain-user, can you post a sample of the input file, the command you are running and the output file in pastebin or such?
16:23 < plain-user> Psi-Jack: i am trying to solve a cryptographic puzzle. since Wendesday. school exercise i'm overdue... supposed to write C program but i am attmpting it in just bash courtesy of not good enough skills (yet). if interested i can give you a big paste of what i got so far
16:23 < Psi-Jack> oneko: No, Arch sucks. I just use it.
16:23 < Psi-Jack> Oh, homework? Well, then.
16:23 < ananke> slackware was the best distro 20+ years ago
16:23 < notmike> fendur: of all time. Maybe gentoo is also good
16:23 < fendur> whoa!
16:23 < Psi-Jack> plain-user: Sorry, I don't help with homework. :)
16:23 < leftyfb> I would think this channel would have banned the word "best" :)
16:23 < notmike> Close second to slackware
16:24 < plain-user> Psi-Jack: are you a teacher? ))
16:24 < ananke> leftyfb: it's certainly on the bad list
16:24 < Psi-Jack> plain-user: I am, you are. Everyone's a teacher. Everyone's also a student.
16:24 < ananke> plain-user: you will not find much help with homework in any irc channel or online forum
16:24 < notmike> leftyfb: 90% of what we discuss here is best distro, best text editor.
16:24 < plain-user> i could have said it is not for homework and what would change then
16:24 < fendur> plain-user: yeah. Get better at phrasing the question so it does not look like homework.
16:25 < oiaohm> leftyfb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system you really need to look up the term operating system.   Turns out you only need to be a kernel to be a operating system.
16:25 < notmike> Which clearly is slackware, ed
16:25 < leftyfb> notmike: sounds stressful
16:25 < Psi-Jack> Or, just... do your own homework and learn properly.
16:25 < JimBuntu> plain-user, silly question... are you doing this in WSDL?
16:25 < oiaohm> leftyfb: so Linux operating system is just the kernel.
16:25 < ananke> 'so, I have this problem with artifical constraints, and I can't use tools that exist. totally not homework. halp pls?'
16:25 < fendur> ananke: needs practice.
16:25 < ayecee> ananke: you're an artificial restraint
16:25 < notmike> Linux is the kernel. It's not exactly the same as an operating system I don't think
16:26 < oiaohm> notmike: the min define of a operating system is kernel and drivers and that is what the Linux kernel source is.
16:26 < plain-user> i mentioned word homework in hope that people actually help, not turn away. perhaps it is a cultural thing and i am expecting something that is not understood. anyway, i will prepare the paste shortly. i am very close to solving it, but am missing something.
16:26 < leftyfb> there's always technicalities. People are always going to pick things apart. The fact of the matter is, nobody is running a PC with JUST the linux kernel. There's no point.
16:27 < notmike> But you also need a shell and utilities, display manager ...
16:27 < oiaohm> notmike: you don't need to define a userspace to be a operating system and it does not have to be able to boot without a operating system.
16:27 < leftyfb> notmike: you most certainly do not need a display manager
16:27 < notmike> Don't you?
16:27 < notmike> I suppose you could just be command line, but you need a shell
16:27 < leftyfb> notmike: most of the entire internet is run by devices with no display manager and many different OS's.
16:28 < leftyfb> right
16:28 < leftyfb> but a shell isn't a display manager .... or is it? :)
16:28 < notmike> It's not
16:28 < oiaohm> leftyfb: notmike  there is a catch here.   By using kernel debug interface in the Linux kernel you can boot the Linux kernel without a userspace.
16:29 < oiaohm> leftyfb: notmike and control it by the debug interface.
16:29 < oiaohm> leftyfb: notmike  not a highly useful operating system.
16:30 < JimBuntu> kernel + buildroot = somewhat useful
16:30 < JimBuntu> wait, that's not what I meant.
16:32 < ananke> meh. the word 'linux' is common enough in a normal language, used in place of the full 'a non-descript linux distribution'. I've been using it in a workplace for 20+ years, and never witnessed anybody try to be picky about that (outside of IRC and forums)
16:32 < fendur> ++
16:33 < notmike> oiaohm: should I roll a regular joint or one of those xl boys
16:33 < SuperSeriousCat> Dont do drugs
16:33 < fendur> define drugs
16:34 < m00dy> #define DRUGS 0 || 1
16:34 < SuperSeriousCat> I assume its weed
16:34  * fendur hears the *facepalms"
16:34 < oiaohm> ananke: the reason why I got picky is embedded.   https://www.embedded.com/design/operating-systems/4207333/Debugging-the-Linux-kernel-with-JTAG   Because something can be marked as running Linux and it turns out its only ever run Linux using jtag control.
16:34 < notmike> Weed is not a drug
16:34 < oiaohm> ananke: so no userspace and just a kernel.
16:34 < fendur> SuperSeriousCat: I meant generally. Because either a lot of things are drugs, or just a few things are. It depends on your definition.
16:35 < ayecee> it's a herbal supplement
16:35 < SuperSeriousCat> Planned to point out "Coffee is a drug!"? :p
16:35 < L0g4nAd4ms> anybody know how i can record a part of my screen as a GIF ? like the gifs they include for example in visual studio code on their README for one extension
16:35 < Armand> Weed is a drug, by all technicalities.
16:36 < m00dy> notmike: agree
16:36 < ananke> oiaohm: certainly. in the cases where it matters I usually see it specified as such
16:36 < triceratux> coffee is a drug like weed, but it includes a bathroom key
16:37 < SuperSeriousCat> Coffee is actually healthy in small portions long therm tho
16:37 < fendur> SuperSeriousCat: who's to say bud isn't?
16:37 < m00dy> My origin lies with origins of coffee
16:37 < notmike> ayecee: knows what up
16:38 < oiaohm> ananke: I have had the case where something had only run linux kernel by jtag and it was marked as Linux OS as well.   So without more details you come very untrusting in embedded of Linux or Linux OS.
16:38 < SuperSeriousCat> Many studies, fendur
16:38 < fendur> SuperSeriousCat: I don't think so. There's a dearth of research on marijuana.
16:39 < oiaohm> fendur: marijuarna vs the GM crop relation industrial hemp gets very interesting.
16:39 < fendur> SuperSeriousCat: and of course smoking it is bad for your lungs. But who's to say it can't have beneficial effects as well? Like coffee does? And when in other forms that are not combusted?
16:40 < SuperSeriousCat> The reason its legal in US is because a dull citizen is easier to manipulate
16:41 < SuperSeriousCat> There are some benefits of marijuana. Like pain relief and such
16:41 < fendur> SuperSeriousCat: It's not federally legal. And it's outlawed because it made it easier to get poor people off the streets, and it allowed an agency to maintain its position of power in the 20s and beyond.
16:42 < plain-user> lol is this a Linux channel or drug promotion channel?
16:42 < Armand> SuperSeriousCat: I can't say that weed has ever made me "dull".
16:42 < Armand> I don't see any promoting, plain-user
16:42 < Armand> Just discussion
16:43 < oiaohm> fendur: in very small amounts Nicotine is beneficial for particular medical conditions.   Less than 1/10 of a cigarette per day.   Fairly much 1 cigarette is over dose.
16:43 < fendur> oiaohm: yes. nicotine and cigarettes are not even close to the same thing.
16:43 < plain-user> mentioning of something is already bringing attention to the subject, regardless of good or bad you say about it ;)
16:43 < SuperSeriousCat> Dull as in less fucks given to stuff happening
16:43 < Pleune> L0g4nAd4ms: I like SimpleScreenRecorder to take quick videos. Then just do some googling to figure out how to turn it into a gif.
16:43 < SuperSeriousCat> Sorry for language if any OP monitors :p
16:43 < oiaohm> fendur: of course cigarettes have a stack of other toxic chemicals as well with no medical benifit.
16:44 < fendur> oiaohm: agree. that's the problem.
16:44 < Armand> SuperSeriousCat: Less f***s is standard for me anyways.
16:44 < fendur> oiaohm: nicotine enhances the problem by creating addiction.
16:44 < L0g4nAd4ms> Pleune, can handbrake convert videos to GIFs ?
16:44 < oiaohm> fendur: over does of nicotine does cause cancer by itself.
16:45 < Armand> Nicotine isn't directly related to cancer at all.
16:45 < fendur> oiaohm: so does overdose of any thing else, virtually
16:46 < Pleune> L0g4nAd4ms: I don't know. Ask Google. Or do it on Linux with ffmpeg or imagemagik or something.
16:46 < notmike> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/7bJFY7rI/2joints.jpg
16:47 < SuperSeriousCat> Did not see any GIF option when I last used Handbreake. But it was still beta then
16:47 < L0g4nAd4ms> Pleune, ok since handbreak is really just a frontend to ffmpeg it should do it
16:49 < oiaohm> Armand: you are right that nicotine does not exactly cause cancer but it does undermine you bodies natural systems that control cancers when in over dose level.   So normal cancer cells body would have controlled don't get controlled.
16:52 < fendur> I digress
16:52 < oiaohm> Armand: https://mg.co.za/article/2018-02-02-00-vaping-could-pose-a-cancer-risk-study-finds  there are are also more modern studies.
16:52 < oiaohm> Armand: the breakdown of nicotine does contain some problems.
16:53 < oiaohm> Armand: of course nicotine alone is way better than cigarettes.
16:54 < mouses> oiaohm: Armand - all I can say is that I am 40, and was a pack a day smoker from age 16-35.  Quit 5 years ago for vaping, and holy fuck - I can run/breathe again
16:54 < mouses> ack pardon my language
16:54 < mouses> holy heck*!
16:55 < SuperSeriousCat> Inhaling heated sticky flavoured substance in your lungs may cause cancer? Who knew...
16:55 < mouses> SuperSeriousCat: I make my own juice, and I know everything that goes into it.
16:55 < mouses> SuperSeriousCat: I'm sure it does some damage, but comapred to smoking a pack of cigs a day?
16:55 < mouses> it's all about harm reduction
16:55 < Armand> I'll stick to smoking the Js.. lol
16:56 < mouses> Armand: I don't even smoke that anymore.  When I partake, I use a vape.
16:56 < Armand> Yuck
16:56 < mouses> no more burning things and inhaling the fumes
16:56 < Armand> Still yuck
16:56 < mouses> Armand: Actually, a good vape for your herbal tinctures is very nice
16:56 < mouses> Armand: if only for the economic part of it
16:56 < Armand> Subjective opinion. ;)
16:56 < mouses> Armand: you use 20-50% less
16:57 < mouses> Armand: and the left over is decarbed for your baking needs!
16:57 < Armand> Doesn't change that I think it tastes foul.
16:57 < mouses> Armand: fair :)
16:57 < Armand> :)
16:58 < oiaohm> mouses: you would have also found you sense of taste will have improved.
16:58 < kremator> behold the new firefox! finally they brought to us the so sought after "windows buttons on the tab bar" ni the linux version
16:59 < oiaohm> mouses: its what turned me off smoking.  I like cooking and being able to taste my food.
16:59 < mouses> oiaohm: omg, my cooking skills / taste are finally back!
16:59 < SuperSeriousCat> DOnt forget the bad teeth/skin
16:59 < kremator> https://i.imgur.com/wmeTNr3.png
16:59 < mouses> oiaohm: it's amazing.  And even after only 5 years tobacco free, I feel so much better
17:00 < mouses> no more stinking like cigs
17:00 < mouses> no more bad teeth/skin
17:00 < solidfox> if I have a lot of commands: sudo apt upgrade && rm -i some-files && more-yesno-commands
17:00 < mouses> also I can run again :)
17:00 < solidfox> how can I pipe one yes command into all of them at once
17:00 < mouses> solidfox: you'd have to make sure all those commands respect the same flag
17:01 < SuperSeriousCat> apt-get upgrade -y
17:01 < ayecee> yes | { command1; command2; command3; }
17:01 < mouses> ayecee: +++
17:01 < solidfox> ah thanks guys
17:01 < plain-user> Ok, here is a Linux question that you I am offering. Psi-Jack, JimBuntu, ananke         https://pastebin.com/iiuGhrCm
17:01 < Psi-Jack> pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
17:02 < SuperSeriousCat> Got a hotkey for that response, Psi-Jack? :p
17:02 < plain-user> ok... didn't know pastebin had issues~ sorry
17:02 < mouses> Psi-Jack: i'm not doing your homework for you :)
17:02 < Psi-Jack> SuperSeriousCat: Nope. Macro.
17:02 < mouses> err
17:02 < mouses> plain-user: ^^^
17:02 < Psi-Jack> mouses: now, MY homework, you WILL do, and you WILL like it. LOL
17:03 < mouses> Psi-Jack: lmfao
17:03  * mouses sighs and opens a terminal
17:03 < mouses> :P
17:03 < Psi-Jack> plain-user: That's why I have a macro to help encourage people away from it.
17:03 < mouses> Psi-Jack: lately I just use termbin, it seems nice
17:04 < plain-user> Ok, here is a better paste: https://paste.linux.community/view/d17a3ba1
17:04 < mouses> cat foo.bar | nc termbin.com 9999
17:04 < Psi-Jack> mouses: Well, I run my own stikked server, so... ;)
17:04 < plain-user> Please check out if you can.
17:04 < mouses> Psi-Jack: I should do that
17:04 < mouses> plain-user: this is a homework thing, right?
17:04 < Psi-Jack> mouses: Be sure to enable spam protection.
17:04 < solidfox> lol netcat
17:04 < Psi-Jack> Yep. This is the same homework.
17:04 < mouses> solidfox: netcat best cat :)
17:05 < solidfox> :3
17:05 < plain-user> mouses: i am doing part time uni, this is part of assessment i'm trying to finish at nights amongst other things.
17:05  * mouses nods at plain-user
17:06 < Research> so I'm trying to run Skyrim via wine and primusrun/optirun but for some reason it still attempts to use the intel chip instead of the GPU
17:06 < plain-user> i'm not school kid and the question there is not something simple that school kid doesnt want to bother with, i'm learning sincerely.
17:06 < Research> primusrun glxspheres64 uses the GPU correctly
17:06 < Research> same with optirun
17:06 < Psi-Jack> It's my personal logic. If one is coming to IRC to try to get homework help, the school one is attending is not doing their job properly and thus not actually teaching.
17:06 < Psi-Jack> That, or the person is not yet ready, or capable, of learning the specifics of what they ask about.
17:06 < mouses> plain-user: google says maybe look here
17:07 < mouses> plain-user: http://www.csc.villanova.edu/~mdamian/Past/cybersecurityfa14/assignments/Crypto_SymmetricKey.pdf
17:07 < mouses> plain-user: that should help you.
17:07 < fendur> plain-user: I am reading Psi-Jack's comments as his own personal opinion. If he doesn't want to help, just move on to someone else.
17:07 < mouses> plain-user: but if you literally copy paste your question into google, you can find spoilers
17:08 < JimBuntu> plain-user, instead of formatting the hexdump to have spaces and then removing the spaces later... why not simply start out by not forcing spaces via the -e format argument?
17:08 < Research> Does anyone know why an application would still attempt to use the intel chip despite being run with primusrun ?
17:09 < plain-user> mouses: i haven't googled for it, because i thought to myself i could do it in bash myself. i noticed my uni tutors copied it from elsewhere. and yes, i need to write a C program, but i am not that smart enough, so i though i do it how i can.
17:09 < solidfox> I'm so tempted to try injecting js into termbin.com site
17:09 < solidfox> but that's illegal
17:10 < JimBuntu> solidfox, it's on github, you can host it yourself for *testing* and it's legal
17:10 < ayecee> also immoral
17:10 < solidfox> JimBuntu, thanks
17:10 < ayecee> consider how it would affect your eternal soul
17:10 < uplime> what if you don't have a soul?
17:10 < markasoftware> I highly doubt it would work, we web devs arent as stupid as we look
17:10 < solidfox> ayecee, im just worried about my flesh
17:11 < ayecee> fair
17:11 < plain-user> about learning comments. there's a few things there. 1) i could be personally a better sutdent, but i'm trying my best, tbh. at times could be trying harder, but i'm working on it. 2) the uni course is a bit off, every year they re-do half the subjects and sometimes the lecture completely mismatches the tutorial.
17:12 < mouses> solidfox: lol I thought the same when first using it - yet to be able to pull that off
17:12 < plain-user> that comment above is off topic though. whoever feels like contributing to the puzzle in the past above, please welcome, really appreciate crowd suport! so thank you, people.
17:12 < solidfox> mouses, its fun when it works
17:12 < solidfox> mouses, but then the anxiety sets in
17:13 < solidfox> actually it causes anxiety wether it works or not. cause an attempt was made
17:13 < mouses> solidfox: lol ikr :)
17:13 < markasoftware> It doesn't even seem like there is any js on that page
17:14 < mouses> solidfox: i've been busy the last week doing automation scripts for usenet downloads ;)
17:14 < mouses> solidfox: I have a wonderful system going now :)
17:14 < plain-user> JimBuntu: do you mean having no spaces on the initial hexdump output? i would love to have that, but don't know how, haha. i almost got it with using od, but then just worked out what i got with hexdump. you know smarter way to do it?
17:14 < pingfloyd> it also makes you looks like a loser
17:15 < JimBuntu> plain-user, example... hexdump -v -e '/1 "%02x"' words-cut.txt
17:15 < solidfox> mouses, nice. I've never used usenet
17:16 < mouses> solidfox: it's kind of amazing!
17:16 < mouses> solidfox: i'm all about automation.
17:17 < jim> mouses, which scripting languages do you know right now, and which are you learning?
17:19 < plain-user> JimBuntu: when i apply hexdump -v -e '/1 "%02x"' 5words-padded.txt  the result has 0a line ending character places after each line. besides it prints as one large line. do you suggest working with that continous file? how cani find the matching word later
17:20 < mouses> jim: I'm pretty comfy in python (do a lot of work on that for a living) - not learning anything much these days, just so busy and tired and old :(
17:21 < mouses> jim: I guess you could say i'm really learning just basic bash scripting pretty heavy lately, but only for personal needs and not business stuff
17:21 < mouses> jim: It's embarassing how little I know with how long I have been using UNIX/Linux
17:23 < kurahaupo> mouses: you might find #bash useful for scripting
17:23 < jim> maybe a lot of your automation needs could be done with a python script, bash can be hard to write and then less than readable (so, of course, you'll want to comment everything you do that's the sligntest bit hard (and even more so if it's also hard to read)
17:23 < jim> that too
17:23 < mouses> kurahaupo: *nods* I pop in there from time to time, but lately I avoid asking and just... figure it out for myself and learn a ton
17:24 < mouses> jim: *nods*
17:24 < mouses> jim: I'm getting a lot better, but have a long way to go.
17:24 < fendur> mouses: doesn't strike me as embarrass-worthy. Not everyone is an admin, and some people just use it for their work writing documents, analyzing/processing data, etc.
17:24 < jim> I wrote a factoid script (that does other things too) for my irc client... example, [[sicp-python]]
17:25 < mouses> let's my latest bash script if you all want to see how far I have come :)
17:25 < jim> oh, didn't work... what's the name of that factoid...
17:25 < jim> oh, https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-fall-2008/index.htm
17:25 < justsomeguy> You know, I've never found a good book on Bash. And I've read a few. The best resource so far has been gregs wiki. Any recommendations?
17:25 < mouses> http://termbin.com/h7a5
17:25 < uplime> the gnu bash manual
17:25 < uplime> the bash man page
17:25 < justsomeguy> I have it. On paper.
17:26 < mouses> (NSFW on some of that directory names)
17:26 < uplime> mouses: :c
17:26 < plain-user> one cannot know everything. i have been in a few IT jobs so far, and been good here and there with whatever technology it was. Next day you start something else in aother area and feel a bit stupid that you can't do things as you haven't learned the tools yet. and have very well forgotten whatever you been great at 8 years ago, for example.
17:26 < mouses> mouses.xyz is a ubuntu server but I run a gentoo prefix too for reasons :)
17:26 < jim> well the man page is very dense, the info page (the original manual) is less so
17:26 < kurahaupo> justsomeguy: yep, those are the top two
17:26 < mouses> uplime: rookie stuff, but I am learning so much.
17:26 < uplime> capital named variables should be reserved for environment variables
17:26 < mouses> uplime: *noted!*
17:27 < uplime> all expansions should be quoted (ie '$CATCHEVENT" "$MONDIR"
17:27 < uplime> )
17:27 < mouses> uplime: *noted*
17:27 < revel> Of uplime Do I get an exception if I am really angry?
17:27 < uplime> you'll want to use read -r, not read or it does weird things to the input
17:27 < mouses> uplime: finally figured out inotify, and just wow
17:27 < uplime> revel: sure
17:27 < mouses> the stuff that can do
17:27 < uplime> mouses: yeah its pretty powerful
17:27 < Psi-Jack> uplime: And the cycles it can take up, doing it. :)
17:27 < mouses> Psi-Jack: hahahha yes
17:27 < uplime> i would use printf over echo
17:28 < revel> uplime: Always?
17:28 < mouses> I run a monitor just to make sure - https://mouses.xyz/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain/cpu.html
17:28 < uplime> revel: yeahh
17:28 < mouses> <3 munin
17:28 < mouses> nice and busy mouses.xyz :)
17:28 < JimBuntu> plain-user, that was only an example. In your case, you would want to process each line as I think you were before. I was simply removing the spaces between the hex output
17:36 < plain-user> 16 character strings in ASCII text file equal to 128bits of data , correct?    16bytes 8bits each.
17:36 < revel> If there's no newline at the end.
17:37 < revel> Or anything else like that.
17:39 < plain-user> ok i think i know the problem. because my -padded and -hexed files have CRLF at the end of each string so that each string is on its own line, the parsing takes that extra ending character and so nothing matches therefore
17:40 < JimBuntu> plain-user, I think you also need the IV to be the right size/length
17:42 < plain-user> "the key used to encrypt this plaintext is an English word shorter than 16 characters" It means 1-15 characters.i could then cut it to 15 characters and have the CRLF's. but when put through the AES, it will also read the CRLF character, isn't it. I need to find a way to have a continuous file of HEXs, but treat each of it's 128 bits separately!
17:43 < kremator> guys, which is my best bet if AMD stopped making drivers for my card in buntu 14.04
17:44 < plain-user> JimBuntu: it says IV needs to be "all zeroes". whatever that means i'm not sure. i'm just using one 0. resulting hash doesn't change if using more than 1 zero, but changes if you put other numbers in the iv.
17:44 < JimBuntu> plain-user, ignore my length comment, I wasn't sure how the input worked. I see it makes no diff
17:44 < Psi-Jack> kremator: Not using Ubuntu 14.04 since it's EOL soon?
17:44 < kremator> my GPU only does work good under AMDGPU
17:44 < Psi-Jack> If nto already.
17:44 < kremator> Psi-Jack, so whats my best bet?
17:45 < Psi-Jack> kremator: For what?
17:45 < kremator> is it possible to force install of AMDGPUPro in newer LTS?
17:45 < jim> Psi-Jack, maybe it's the opposite... if he wants to support an older card, maybe he needs an older dist, or maybe an older kernel
17:45 < kremator> Psi-Jack, to keep using that machine
17:45 < toothe> sigh...Pop_OS's theme renders differently in a VM than in real life.
17:45 < toothe> err, than on metal.
17:46 < toothe> and after 2-3 days, I can't figure out how to tweak a theme.
17:46 < plain-user> i understand that IV (initialisation vector) is like a -salt. the puzzle's description kind of tells that iv=00
17:46 < Psi-Jack> Or get a distribution that continues to support hardware for longer...
17:46 < toothe> :/
17:46 < Psi-Jack> or, better, upgrade hardware. :)
17:46 < jim> Psi-Jack, that can be expensive
17:46 < kremator> Psi-Jack, imk not ina  position to upgrade hardware, specially because im perfectly satisfied with my current perf.
17:46 < Psi-Jack> Sure, but he's asking for the best.
17:47 < jim> we both know that's an ill-defined word
17:49 < Psi-Jack> Oh, no, it's defined well. What's best for me could be different than what another feels best. But, in the case of upgrading to something newer and better supported... I think most would say that would definitely be better overall.
17:49 < Psi-Jack> So, I stand by my answer firmly.
17:49 < kremator> jim, any suggestion? my gpu is not THAT old, but AMD discontinued pretty quickly, for the open drivers that comes in ubuntu 16.04 they already discontinued it
17:49 < Psi-Jack> That's.... A bad sign, too.
17:50 < Psi-Jack> That's a very bad sign.
17:50 < kremator> Psi-Jack, yeah, sign of AMD not giving a single fuck about legacy users
17:50 < jim> kremator, one suggestion he had makes a lot of sense, which is to find a dist that doesn't drop support for older hardware at such a fast rate
17:50 < Psi-Jack> Ahem.... Sorry, but could you mind your language, please?
17:50 < ayecee> my fricken earballs!
17:51 < kremator> jim, which would suggest me aside from debian?
17:51 < Psi-Jack> earballs? heh
17:51 < Psi-Jack> Fedora, openSUSE.
17:51 < kremator> jim, because debian works kinda bad drivers wise, on my machine
17:51 < kremator> openSUSE? wasnt that almost rolling release?
17:51 < dgurney> leap is different
17:51 < kremator> same with Fedora
17:51 < bls> openSUSE tumbleweed was
17:52 < justsomeguy> They have a stable and rolling release version.
17:52 < jim> I don't actually know... do you have a gpu on your mobo or in the cpu?
17:52 < kremator> jim, mobo, its an APU laptop
17:52 < dgurney> I wouldn't recommend Fedora in this case, because they don't have LTS releases
17:53 < jim> ok, so the gpu overall in the laptop is proprietary?
17:53 < kremator> jim, you could says o, the gpu is exactly an AMD 7520g
17:53 < jim> (in other words you don't have a choice?
17:53 < Psi-Jack> kremator: LEAP is not Tumbleweed, so no.
17:53 < jim> )
17:54 < kremator> i searched on AMD webpage, and they only "officially" suported it til AMDGPUPro drivers (the propietary stack they had back in the day)
17:54 < Psi-Jack> Neither of those are "rolling release".
17:54 < uplime> Psi-Jack: what distro do you normally use?
17:54 < Psi-Jack> uplime: Depends.
17:54 < uplime> im not familiar with that one
17:54 < kremator> jim, it does work good on free drivers, but it is unable to use 2 screen at the same time
17:54 < Psi-Jack> uplime: Depends on use-case. :p
17:54 < uplime> :}
17:55 < uplime> I've been thinking about trying out a linux desktop again, but not-ubuntu this time
17:55 < kremator> jim, so what, i should just install 14.04 and live frozen in the past once it hits EOL?
17:55 < Psi-Jack> uplime: I only use Linux.
17:55 < uplime> i use mac primarily
17:55 < uplime> except for my servers
17:55 < uplime> which is ubuntu and freebsd
17:55 < Psi-Jack> I got my wife an iMac.
17:55 < uplime> nice
17:55 < uplime> i like them
17:55 < Psi-Jack> I wasn't about to let her run Windows.
17:56 < uplime> yeah, im not a huge fan of it
17:56 < uplime> I can see the merit, but im not too fond of them
17:56 < Psi-Jack> I can't even see the "merit".
17:56 < jim> kremator, you might have to do that
17:57 < kremator> jim, what other choice do i have?
17:57 < Psi-Jack> kremator: And you're very likely going to remain Spectre and Spectre-NG vulnerable, too.
17:57 < kremator> Psi-Jack, that does not worry me
17:57 < dgurney> kremator, your other choice is to upgrade
17:57 < Psi-Jack> It should.
17:58 < jim> proprietary hardware sucks, and recently atheros has apparantly gone back to cutting off support for linux
17:58 < kremator> Psi-Jack, i connect to internet from that machine from a CDMA 1x connectio that is so unreliable that i can connect to freenode in daylight
17:58 < kremator> Psi-Jack, do you think i *can* connect to itnernet normally from that machine?
17:59 < kremator> jim, sad, because the atheros wireless nic in my laptop works wonderful in every distro, so i guessed it was from the good atheros times
18:00 < kremator> dgurney, sorry, too poor to afford an upgrade + i'd hate to do so
18:00 < kremator> dgurney, im usually against upgrading HW for SW unless the SW really scalated and needs it, in my case is just lack of features there were working before
18:09 < dgurney> kremator, I can understand that, but personally once there are hurdles like this, I start at least planning an upgrade
18:09 < syadnom> hi all, looking for a linux bridge guru.  I'm trying to figure out if I bridge 2 ethernet devices say eth0 and eth1... what happens if I add a 8021q vlan to eth0 or eth1?  Does that cause weirdness with the bridge?
18:10 < uplime> why would you add that to a bridge nic
18:13 < ayecee> syadnom: no, that works
18:13 < syadnom> ayecee, yeah?  any special config?
18:13 < ayecee> no
18:15 < syadnom> uplime, so what I'm really wanting to do is run batman-adv on a VLAN so that each machine is part of a mesh network while keeping the ports 'native' for non-mesh devices to plug in.  Might sound weird, but an example might be that I have a wireless point-to-point link between node1-eth1 and node2-eth2, those radios don't speak mesh so I need the native untagged vlan to just work as normal.  Then I'd adjust MTU up a bit and
18:15 < syadnom> run a VLAN node1-eth1.10 and node2-eth2.10 and add those vlan10 interfaces to batman-adv.
18:16 < syadnom> the point to point links transport the VLANs no problem as long as the MTU is adjusted.
18:16 < rh10> hey folks. where can i get simple linux sound effects, liek beeps and so on?
18:16 < NickOfThyme> bleeps and boops?
18:17 < rh10> NickOfThyme, well, just beep sound
18:17 < rh10> from linux systems, from sound themes
18:17 < fendur> what would give it the linux characteristic that you seek?
18:17 < phinxy> Why is there a lot of junk in .bashrc?  I'd like to make a .bash_user that evals at the bottom of .bashrc but then vim isnt applying the syntax colors.
18:17 < NickOfThyme> maybe penguin sound effects?
18:18 < phinxy> I might move the default .bashrc junk in to its own .rc instead
18:19 < rh10> NickOfThyme, i think not penguin's :)
18:19 < fendur> humans?
18:20 < mutante> rh10: apt-get install beep
18:20 < mutante> while true; do frequency=$(seq 5000 5001); beep -f $frequency -l 3; done
18:21 < rh10> mutante, thanks!
18:21 < rh10> i'll try
18:21 < solidfox> rh10, try this one echo "g(i,x,t,o){return((3&x&(i*((3&i>>16?\"$(openssl rand -base64 10)\": \"$(openssl rand -base64 10)\")[t%8]+51)>>o))<<4);};main(i,n,s){for(i=0;;i++)putchar(g(i,1,n=i>>14,12)+g(i,s=i>>17,n^i>>13,10)+g(i,s/3,n+((i>>11)%3),10)+g(i,s/5,8+n-((i>>10)%3),9));}"|gcc -xc -&&./a.out|aplay
18:21 < solidfox> MEMBERS
18:21 < solidfox> FILES
18:21 < solidfox> photo_2018_3_14_10_45_59.jpg
18:21 < solidfox> whoops
18:21 < NickOfThyme> or install audacious. it has a beep feature
18:21 < mutante> or dont install other stuff and just install beep
18:22 < rh10> solidfox, quite turbid :)
18:22 < rh10> NickOfThyme, thanks!
18:22 < syadnom> I'm not sure which beeps and boops are tell-tale linux...
18:22 < NickOfThyme> yeah, if you want to cut and paste commands, install beep
18:23 < NickOfThyme> or better yet write your own program in C!
18:23 < rh10> NickOfThyme, mostly i need some simple and beautiful sound effects
18:23 < NickOfThyme> rh10, then I would search for wavs
18:24 < NickOfThyme> I remember using xset to get hollywood hacker beeps on xterminal at least
18:29 < hiya> How can I check my Linux laptop's SSD write/read speeds?
18:31 < zerobaud> the output of ps -auxw | grep mongo = "su - mongodb -c /opt/mongodb-linux-i686-2.2.3/bin/mongod --rest --journal"
18:31 < zerobaud> why is that dash after su doing there?
18:32 < zerobaud> also mongodb starts like: "-su -c /opt/mongodb-linux-i686-2.2.3/bin/mongod --rest --journal"
18:32 < zerobaud> thats the process started from su, yet there is a dash at the start, is ps being strange or do these things mean something?
18:33 < syadnom> zerobaud, '-' is essentially the output of the previous command.
18:33 < zerobaud> syadnom: so su "outputs"  a dash before exiting?
18:33 < syadnom> no
18:34 < zerobaud> what output is this? STDOUT or STDERR?
18:34 < uplime> syadnom: wat? https://superuser.com/a/453989
18:35 < zerobaud> thanks uplime
18:42 < wuzamarine> I closed the book on Gentoo today. Had not touched it in years and the first lamp install went so bad, my new policy is that if I can't lamp install in one command, just format that garbage. Some things are just not worth fighting.
18:42 < zerobaud> So is it safe to su -c a application as non root while some person has the capability to modify the application being called e,g +w permission (the path is absolute without wildcards).
18:43 < zerobaud> su being executed as root
18:43 < hexnewbie> Not touching it for years is not applicable to Gentoo in any way.
18:44 < wuzamarine> hexnewbie: they are still on mysql 5.6 and all the problems assocciated.
18:44 < hexnewbie> The databases are usable? :D
18:44 < wuzamarine> hexnewbie: for another week or 2. that code was written in the 70s
18:45 < wuzamarine> it should of died with Kenny Logins
18:45 < mouses> takes me around 200 seconds to have a stable LAMP stack on gentoo
18:46 < mouses> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Joomla
18:46 < wuzamarine> mouses: It told me it didn't like the syntax for User in http.conf.  I formatted that garbage.
18:46 < hexnewbie> LOL.
18:46 < mutante> "pre-install" :)
18:47 < mouses> mutante: yeah, prep for install
18:47 < uplime>  /b 5
18:47 < mutante> it's like the George Carlin joke about pre-boarding a flight. "to get on before you get on"
18:48 < kriztmark> htop
18:48 < mouses> mutante: a proper LAMP stack is a serious thing.
18:48 < mutante> mouses: what makes it "proper"?
18:48 < mouses> if the user wants to just push button and get bacon, they can run windows or ubuntu or whatever
18:49 < wuzamarine> when the default install can't keep track of the default user or is label, its time to hang that junk up.
18:49 < mouses> mutante: configured to the exact needs of the end user, imho
18:49 < prussian> what would the A be replaced with if you use HAProxy instead of Apache httpd (a) or nginx (e)
18:49 < wuzamarine> its
18:49 < prussian> lhmp sounds pretty lame
18:49 < mouses> prussian: lol
18:50 < irwiss> you have the 'p' there, it's already lame
18:50 < prussian> true
18:50 < prussian> true
18:50 < mutante> mouses: i dont see what keeps me from editing Apache config on another distro
18:50 < hexnewbie> LYME is the future
18:50 < prussian> don't think I've seen a web server config I liked
18:51 < mutante> why i have to edit "portage configuration files" and add stuff to my USE flags though.. not immediately clear
18:51 < hexnewbie> What would be the point of Gentoo if you didn't do that?
18:51 < Armand> prussian: Needs moar cPanel!
18:52 < bls> funroll-loops
18:52 < prussian> hmm
18:52 < prussian> cpanel is something I can say I've never had the (dis)pleasure of using
18:52 < Armand> lol
18:52 < Armand> Every day...
18:52 < prussian> i think i wrote maybe one thing in php as well
18:52 < Armand> It does it's job.. and better than any other solution
18:52 < prussian> I'm sorry? or not.
18:53 < prussian> cool
18:53 < mutante> Plesk
18:53 < hexnewbie> The joy of compiling your gentoo with -O3 -fweb -funswitch-loops -funroll-all-loops -funit-at-a-time -fsched2-use-traces -fsched2-use-superblocks -fsched-stalled-insns=12 -frename-registers -fprefetch-loop-arrays -fpeel-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -fmerge-all-constants -finline-limit=32768 -finline-functions -ffunction-sections -ffast-math -fdata-sections -fbranch-target-load-optimize2
18:53 < prussian> nice
18:53 < Armand> mutante: Plesk is litterally the WORST of anything.
18:53 < Armand> -t
18:53 < prussian> -ffast-math <-- I too like to live dangerously
18:53 < dgurney> well luckily only idiots do that lol
18:53 < mutante> Armand: lol, i know. i wanted to see reaction :) agree
18:53 < Armand> :)
18:53 < prussian> doesn't -Ofast trigger a lot of those?
18:53 < dgurney> prussian, yep
18:53 < mutante> Armand: well, wait .. we are unfair .. there is still "webmin"
18:54 < prussian> nice
18:54 < bls> a better solution is proper config management, not a web app that locks you into just the configurations its authors are able to support
18:54 < prussian> I remember having problems with -flto on gentoo and gave up.
18:54 < Armand> mutante: Never had to deal with that.
18:55 < dgurney> prussian, yeah, there are some applications/libraries that still don't take to lto kindly
19:03 < blackgatonegro> El nuevo ubuntu esta mejor que unity pero no lo recomiendo  para desktop/escritorio.
19:03 < blackgatonegro> Me hico acordar a windows 8
19:05 < bls> blackgatonegro: this is an English only channel. /msg alis list -es   for Spanish channels
19:07 < zsoc> Not sure if this is a good place to ask... but trying to transfer some GnuPG resources from a windows box to a linux box.. basically just copied the contents of Users/<user>/.gnupg to ~/.gnupg .. it seemed to recognize it ("gpg: porting secret keys from '/home/<user>/.gnupg/secring.gpg' to gpg-agent"... "gpg: migration succeeded") but then i'm still getting "gpg: decryption failed: No secret key"
19:07 < blackgatonegro> Opps sorry, wrong window. The new ubuntu ditched unity but reminds me too much of windows 8 to use on desktop.
19:08 < bls> zsoc: have you checked your file permissions? windows is going to make everything 777, linux is going to want things to be 600
19:08 < zsoc> That's interesting.. you would assume it would complain about that tho and not say the keys were imported
19:08 < bls> zsoc: you may also need to set a default secret key
19:08 < zsoc> i'm honestly not really sure where the keys "exist" with gnupg... i imagine they are embedded somewhere in the keyring and not just some key file?
19:09 < zsoc> oo a default, that's a good idea.. i copied the config but maybe it's not right
19:09 < bls> it may have changed fingerprints if it genereated a new timestamp on import
19:10 < jatt> zsoc: gpg -K
19:11 < zsoc> uh, i suppose that being blank is bad? heh
19:11 < cyphex> Hey, does anyone know how I can see if I'm using xinerama?
19:11 < zsoc> okay.. maybe just copying the keyring isn't enough to transfer the key? like i need to export/import?
19:12 < zsoc> i moved the secring.gpg, trustdb.gpg, and pubring.gpg files
19:12 < cyphex> disregard my question, I had a brain fart
19:15 < zsoc> okay.. wow, so this old env was somewhat convoluted... there are keys in the windows user dir but also in the root dir of a cygwin installation >.> and yeah.. i think i need to do a manual --export and then --import... i don't think copying the files is good enough
19:17 < notmike> We should reinvent the wheel.
19:18 < zsoc> "imported", "Total number processed: 1", "imported: 1" .... `gpg2 -K`... blank output. Yay
19:18  * jml2 usermod -aG wheel jml2
19:18 < zsoc> I would like to not reinvent the wheel. I would like to transfer my gpg keys lol
19:18 < zsoc> okay wait... now --list-keys works but not -K ? so that means... uh.. hmmm
19:23 < likcoras> zsoc: -K only list secret keys
19:23 < likcoras> try -k
19:24 < zsoc> okay.. don't i need secret keys tho? like i have secret keys on the keyring i'm copying *from* so.. i was expecting.. heh
19:24 < zsoc> also i have a 'pub' and a 'sub' and i'm not sure which one i should be setting to 'default'
19:24 < likcoras> If you want transver the secret key material, then use --export-secret-{sub}keys
19:24 < zsoc> got it
19:24 < zsoc> i don't actually know if i have to do that
19:24 < likcoras> --export only exports the public keys.
19:24 < zsoc> the key i'm exporting is for decryption, if that means anything
19:25 < zsoc> i'm still getting "no key" when i try to use it so.. i guess i'm going to try setting `default-key` in the gnupg.conf
19:25 < zsoc> er... gpg.conf
19:25 < likcoras> For decryption, you need the secret key.
19:25 < zsoc> well then, that explains why it thinks there's no key. There isn't one. Thank you :)
19:25 < likcoras> People use your public key to encrypt stuff that only your secret key to decrypt.
19:26 < likcoras> can* decrypt
19:26 < plain-user> How can one feed input into something by reading 32 charactersout of a file?
19:26 < plain-user> i am parsing a file and need to have it's output divided by 32 characters and fed into pipe
19:27 < zsoc> oh dear... it only gives me 3 tries to enter the passphrase
19:27 < zsoc> i believe this is something like a 45 character passphrase lol
19:28  * zsoc sweats
19:28 < bls> plain-user: what do you mean by "divided by 32 characters"?
19:29 < zsoc> "gpg: public key decryption failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device" okay... a new error is good, one step closer \o/
19:30 < plain-user> take first 32 characters out of a file, do something with that data, then read the next 32 characters and so on.
19:30 < jim> plain-user, a program can read 32 bytes at a time, you just have to specify that to the reader
19:30 < bls> plain-user: you can do that will shell scripting, but it'll be ugly. you'd be better served using something like python or perl to do it
19:30 < plain-user> parse the whole file. but the file has no line breaks, just stream of characters
19:30 < likcoras> zsoc: just try again. Nothing stops you from just doing it again
19:30 < zerobaud> Is it safe to run this as root: "su - mongodb -c /opt/mongodb-linux-i686-2.2.3/bin/mongod --rest --journal", could the mongodb user (who has write permission to -R /opt/mongodb-linux-i686-2.2.3/*) somehow escape and become root?
19:31 < bls> zerobaud: it's best practice to run daemons (especially poorly secured ones like mongo) as a non-root user
19:31 < jim> plain-user, want to learn somethng like python or perl?
19:31 < plain-user> bls: i will be very happy if you can show she shell line.
19:32 < notmike> Not a programming channel off-topic zOMG
19:32 < plain-user> jim: i want to complete the task and go to bed at 03:32 am tbh. i am still learning shell and very little of C. total noob, just started.
19:32 < zerobaud> bls: isnt that what the command I gave is doing?
19:32 < bls> plain-user: it'd take a bit to come up with a one liner
19:32 < bls> zerobaud: yes
19:33 < zerobaud> bls: well then, would it be secure to run it like this? what if I symlink the name of the application to something containg -h would su think those are commands?
19:33 < bls> zerobaud: and if you're afraid of someone exploiting mongo, you should look into containerizing it
19:33 < notmike> plain-user: what's your problem? Sounds like you need ed
19:33 < zsoc> ahhh "Inappropriate ioctl for device" is because i'm stuffing the passphrase into the header of the command programatically.. as this is for an automated process. Apparently in versions of gpg2 > 2.1 it doesn't like this :(
19:34 < zerobaud> bls: I just want to know for this specific instance if its possible to break out of the su invocation...
19:34 < hexnewbie> Ha, dividing into 32 characters (i.e. using delimiter of /(.{32})/) yields results surprisingly similar to splitting into groups of 32, at least with Python.
19:34 < bls> zerobaud: yes, it is, but it's got nothing to do with su
19:34 < hexnewbie> dividing *by* 32 characters, rather
19:34 < bls> zerobaud: the same thing could happen if you logged in as the user and launched it
19:35 < bls> zerobaud: if your question is: is there a difference between the two, there is not. it's not possible to get back into the root shell that was used to launch su
19:36 < plain-user> notmike: file of hex stream exists, no line breaks. text needs to be fed into another program into a | but i need to take each 32 chars of that file and then apply to whatever the program will do to it
19:36 < likcoras> zsoc: what do you mean by that? the header?
19:36 < bls> plain-user: ignore him, he's just trolling
19:36 < zsoc> likcoras: uh... like through stdin basically... like <passcode>\n<buffer data to decrypt>
19:37 < zerobaud> bls: how are you so sure, I think you are wrong. I think that specific command can be leveraged as a mongodb user to become root
19:37 < jml2> plain-user, yeah you can and there's a way :p
19:37 < jml2> plain-user, rtfm -> "man stdbuf" :)
19:37 < rascul> zerobaud it can't
19:37 < zsoc> woo i followed random commands blindly from a blog post and it works \o/
19:37 < zsoc> xD
19:37 < bls> zerobaud: they absolutely can, but it has nothing to do with whether or not you use su
19:37 < zerobaud> what about a alias that uses a wildcard? will sudo think the wild card expanded files are part of the command?
19:38 < zerobaud> what about a symlink?
19:38 < plain-user> jml2: ok, ty, will check it
19:38 < jml2> zerobaud, the shell expands the alias '*' ... before the command uses it
19:38 < notmike> plain-user: can't sed do this, maybe with a loop?
19:38 < zerobaud> damn
19:39 < zerobaud> jml2: aliases? since the - is used it parses mongodb env, will this happen after or before it is root?
19:39 < zerobaud> we could alias the command to a function since I control my own bashrc
19:39 < bls> why are you trying to lanuch network facing daemons by hand?
19:39 < zerobaud> I am not doing that bls
19:39 < rascul> zerobaud what command are you trying to assign to what alias?
19:39 < rascul> give an example
19:39 < zsoc> likcoras: if you care to know, the commands had me set `use-agent` and `pinentry-mode loopback` in gpg.conf and then create a gpg-agent.conf with only `allow-loopback-pinentry`, and echo RELOADAGENT to gpg-connect-agent and voila
19:40 < zsoc> thank you for your help also :) big help on moving the secret keys, appreciate it
19:40 < notmike> plain-user plz responding
19:41 < plain-user> notmike: I already had a loop, but the input file changed, because whatever i was doing with the line delimited files, was not working. cat dict.txt |while read line; do openssl enc -aes-128-cbc -a -in myPhrase.txt -K "${line}" -iv 0; done > hashes.txt
19:41 < solidfox> hello friends need to solve a security problem using linux and the internet
19:41 < uplime> plain-user: useless use of cat
19:41 < solidfox> so I'm at work and I need to sign commits. but the pc is work-issued with domain user accounts and everything
19:42 < plain-user> uplime: change it to what then?
19:42 < solidfox> oh but more importantly I need to ssh tunnel for irc and stuff
19:42 < rascul> plain-user < dict.txt
19:42 < uplime> while read -r line; do ... ; done < dict.txt
19:42 < solidfox> how can I be sure that my work doesn't get my credentials why I'm connecting?
19:42 < rascul> solidfox over ssh? it's encrypted
19:42 < likcoras> zsoc: looks like gpg does have --passphrase and --passphrase-file options that are used with --batch.
19:43 < solidfox> rascul, from a work-issued pc
19:43 < rascul> solidfox over ssh? it's encrypted
19:43 < solidfox> rascul, you don't have much imagination do you
19:43 < likcoras> zsoc: If it's automated, you probably want --batch in there.
19:43 < rascul> the answer is the same
19:43 < solidfox> rascul, they control the pc I'm connecting FROM
19:43 < rascul> they don't have to control the ssh binary
19:43 < solidfox> rascul, potentially they could have a hardware keylogger
19:43 < zsoc> will look into it, thanks
19:43 < solidfox> rascul, potentially they could have software keylogger
19:43 < rascul> if you're that paranoid, just don't use that computer
19:44 < solidfox> its all up them
19:44 < rascul> or quit your job or something
19:44 < rascul> you're just penalizing yourself at this point
19:44 < Dagmar> Live in a box wrapped in tinfoil
19:44 < likcoras> Most security breaks down if you can't ensure physical security
19:44 < solidfox> likcoras, exactly
19:44 < Dagmar> Here's an idea: "Don't store personal data on work-issued computing equipment"
19:44 < solidfox> likcoras, they could change all the commits to say I wrote the payment stuff when I didn't
19:44 < likcoras> And sounds like you don't trust the machine you're connecting from, so there's really not much you can do.
19:44 < Dagmar> Problem solved!
19:45 < rascul> i don't even know why a keylogger matters
19:45 < rascul> if you're using your own ssh binary with a key...
19:45 < solidfox> Dagmar, how do I avoid being framed for soemone else's illegal data handling
19:45 < rascul> there is not a requirement to type a passphrase via the keyboard
19:45 < Dagmar> solidfox: Get smarter and stop working for criminals
19:45 < solidfox> rascul, they have access to the FS
19:45 < likcoras> What Dagmar said. Just keep a separate computer for the stuff that you want to avoid risking some other person accessing stuff on it
19:46 < Dagmar> Your ability to come up with idiotically impossible scenarios does not convey the responsibility for other people to resolve them
19:46 < rascul> solidfox so don't put your sensitive stuff on that fs
19:46 < likcoras> If someone has enough access to install a keylogger, they have enough access to read and decrypt ssh keys.
19:46 < solidfox> how will I know where I should work?
19:46 < rascul> get a usb thumb drive you with a physical read only switch
19:46 < rascul> likcoras that's not even true
19:46 < Dagmar> DOn't work.  Live in a box wrapped in tinfoil down an alley someplace and don't tell anyone where you are
19:46 < rascul> solidfox don't work anywhere
19:46 < likcoras> Tell me, what kind of access would you need to install a keylogger on a system?
19:46 < Dagmar> That's the only way to be truly safe
19:46 < rascul> you clearly are too paranoid to exist
19:46 < Dagmar> Otherwise, take your pills
19:46 < solidfox> paranoia is a virtue though.
19:47 < solidfox> and I like the feeling
19:47 < rascul> likcoras you're completely missing the point, decrypting ssh keys is not at all on the same level as installing a keylogger
19:47 < Dagmar> Taking your prescribed medication is a virtue.  Paranoia is a mental defect.
19:47 < jml2> solidfox wants to be like popeye, he wants to live in a garbage can and only eat spinach
19:47 < jml2> popeye the sailor man.. he lives in a ...
19:47 < ayecee> nice part of the city
19:48 < likcoras> rascul: if you have access to install a keylogger, you basically have arbitrary code execution as the user that runs X. With old X, that's root, nowadays the user account.
19:48 < solidfox> you all failed the quiz
19:48 < solidfox> the solution is as follows
19:48 < solidfox> jk idk
19:48 < jml2> solidfox, yeah stfu!! :PPPP
19:48 < rascul> likcoras true, how is that relevant to the key part?
19:48 < jml2> LOL
19:48 < solidfox> jml2, :P
19:48 < jml2> solidfox, LOGIC FAIL!!!
19:48 < jml2> solidfox, boooooooooooooooooooooooo
19:49 < likcoras> YOu can 1. read the encrypted keys and 2, read the passphrase through the keylogger when it's used.
19:49 < likcoras> done.
19:49 < rascul> so don't use a passphrase?
19:49 < rascul> why would you be relying on keyboard input if you're worried about a keylogger?
19:49 < likcoras> Then how would you connect in the first place...?
19:49 < rascul> same as you always do
19:50 < rascul> ssh user@host ...
19:50 < likcoras> Mhm...
19:50 < rascul> your key doesn't need a password, and there are other options if you don't want to use a passwordless key
19:50 < rascul> yubikey and all
19:50 < likcoras> Oh, was not aware you can have a passwordless key.
19:51 < bls> that's probably the largest majority of key usage
19:51 < rascul> if you're that concerned about the system you're on though, probably you don't want a passwordless key
19:51 < likcoras> But if your key does not have a password, whoever installed a keylogger probably already has enough access (as the user account) to read the keyfile.
19:51 < rascul> but there's other ways to secure your key without a password
19:51 < rascul> example, yubikey
19:51 < jml2> keepassxc <<< (not keypassx) supports authentication with yubikey
19:52 < jml2> i was just reading about this today..
19:52 < solidfox> I have an ideaaa
19:52 < likcoras> I'm not faimilar with yubikey... Is it safe to plug it in into untrusted systems?
19:52 < jml2> i think i might migrate from using keypassx, and instead go for the more maintained keepassxc
19:52 < solidfox> what if you curl the password from https connection and then pipe it into ssh
19:52 < solidfox> dns set to 8.8.8.8
19:52 < bls> likcoras: if you don't trust the system, you shouldn't be using it to begin with
19:53 < likcoras> bls: I'm discussing how one might go around connecting over ssh without having their key exposed in a system that has a malicious keylogger installed.
19:53 < likcoras> But you're right, don't handle sensitive material on untrusted sytems.
19:53 < solidfox> you guys don't get it
19:53 < solidfox> it's not about sensitive material
19:54 < rascul> solidfox you can't "curl the password from https connection"
19:54 < jml2> likcoras, use a "challenge" with a yubikey --- i believe this is a OTP challenge -- there's documentation about it
19:54 < solidfox> its about accountability for your actions
19:54 < jml2> likcoras, keepassxc if i'm right, supports this
19:54 < likcoras> Will look into, this sounds interesting.
19:54 < bls> if the system has a keylogger, what difference does it make if your ssh key gets compromised? if you spend enough time on the system, you're going to leak other information via the keyboard
19:54 < solidfox> if someone can pretend to be you, you need a way to prove who you are.
19:55 < solidfox> or they will rewrite git history with stuff in your name
19:55 < solidfox> like some virus put into the project
19:55 < likcoras> solidfox: then make sure that git access and your signing keys are secure and /not on an untrusted system/.
19:55 < jml2> having something of an OTP/challenge is at some level standing against keyloggers.. (the masterpassphrase)
19:55 < bls> this is getting into https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1401_08-12_mickens.pdf territory
19:56 < likcoras> That's really the only defence you can put up, it is nigh impossible to have proper security with compromised hardware/systems.
19:56 < solidfox> ahah
19:56 < solidfox> I have an idea
19:56 < rascul> you could also run your own live distro on read only usb
19:57 < rascul> if you don't trust the software anyway, doesn't help much if you don't trust the hardware
19:57 < solidfox> I could have my own repository and I just commit there, and open a pull request to myself
19:57 < solidfox> my own repository is on some other computer that I trust
19:57 < likcoras> Good. Don't handle sensitive material (passwords, key material, etc.) on untrusted systems.
19:58 < likcoras> Wasn't hard, was it?
19:58 < uplime> if you don't trust the computer how do you know they're not going to proxy any git commits and mess with them?
19:58 < rascul> likcoras nope, it was mentioned awhile ago
19:58 < bls> shutting down imaginary threat vectors at the expense of usability while ignoring more plausible ones
19:58 < jml2> solidfox, you also need to trust the hydro-plant.  the place where the electricity is generated.  There can be alien hieroglyphs on the turning metal drums, creating viral hacks on the electrical transmission itself.
19:58 < jml2> ^^^
19:58 < jml2> important!
19:58 < solidfox> jml2, I can't protect myself against the whole world.
19:58 < rascul> gotta trust the water too
19:59 < rascul> they put dihydrogen monoxide in the water to control people
19:59 < solidfox> jml2, let's be reasonable
19:59 < jml2> solidfox, i am being reasonable
19:59 < solidfox> jml2, git was DESIGNED for trustless authoriship
19:59 < solidfox> jml2, same as bitcoin
19:59 < jml2> solidfox, have you ever visited the place where they generate electricity for your home?
19:59 < solidfox> because they're decentralized
19:59 < jml2> solidfox, that's where I'd start
19:59  * sauvin rofls at rascul alleging that folks use industrial solvents to "control people"
19:59 < rascul> dihydrogen monoxide is an industrial solvent?
19:59 < uplime> water is an industrial solvent?
20:00 < rascul> ;)
20:00 < sauvin> It is, and on a massive scale.
20:00 < blackgatonegro> Hi, whats the channel for linux mint? Because mint 18.2 mate got breicked after a upodate and I did a fresh install but I wish  to know  how to fix a roblem like that next time withouit, backup, formating the disk and a fresh install.
20:00 < bls> I know right? everyone knows they use additives in jet fuels, not solvents
20:00 < rascul> http://dhmo.org/
20:00 < bls> blackgatonegro: /msg alis list yoursearchtermhere
20:00 < solidfox> I haven't done a distro upgrade in ages.
20:00 < blackgatonegro> *bricked ; Term used when a system gets unusable after an update.
20:00 < solidfox> unless you count the time I upgraded gentoo
20:00 < solidfox> that was a few months ago
20:01 < sauvin> rascul, I once used that very page trying to illustrate the simple concept of "presentation". :D
20:01 < solidfox> I tend to switch distros every couple of weeks
20:01 < uplime> sounds inefficent
20:01 < rascul> sauvin hehe it's a great page, very informative, too
20:01 < blackgatonegro> Is usually better to do  fresh install than distro upgrade. Distro upgrade screws things up unless you upgrade from a fresh install.
20:01 < sauvin> And for many, many people, it's terrifying.
20:01 < jml2> rascul, i make profits by buying bottled water, drinking from them, then just filling them with tap water and selling them to people like solidfox  XD
20:01 < blackgatonegro> Even more if is a distro based on ubuntu or ubuntu.
20:02 < uplime> I've never had a problem with distro upgrades on ubuntu
20:02 < blackgatonegro> sauvin, so you are Megamind now?
20:02 < solidfox> jml2, u kan tell if they've been opened
20:02 < solidfox> ...
20:02 < jml2> I heard of mega* , but not megammmind!!!!
20:03 < sauvin> solidfox, "you", not "u".
20:03 < jml2> solidfox, not when i squeeze the butt capps tight between my butt cheeks XDXD
20:03 < jml2> mega mega download!!!!!
20:03 < jml2> LAWL
20:03 < blackgatonegro> uplime, have you tried buying a lottery ticked because I been using Ubuntu and ubuntu derivatives since 6.x and eventually I end having to do a fresh install.
20:03 < solidfox> sauvin, sure
20:04 < solidfox> jml2, lol not LAWL
20:04 < uplime> blackgatonegro: not really. I've been using ubuntu for many years and never had that problem
20:04 < jml2> solidfox, boo strike 2!!!!!
20:04 < blackgatonegro> That's a miracle.
20:04 < uplime> i also know many people who update ubuntu regularly
20:04 < uplime> not really
20:04 < jml2> solidfox, if you took my advice you would of researched into it -> yubikey+keepassxc << look it up.
20:04 < rascul> if you screw up your install, upgrades can be difficult
20:04 < jml2> (i mentioned about it to others above)
20:04 < uplime> ^
20:04 < blackgatonegro> Although granted nothing have me as many headaches as lubuntu, but main ubuntu came quite close.
20:05 < bls> they're the same thing, just a different desktop
20:05 < jml2> blackgatonegro, lubuntu is installable from ubuntu's minimal installer from a list while installing
20:06 < rascul> lubuntu is literally just a metapackage for ubuntu
20:06  * jml2 nees to cut using the word install* XD
20:06 < blackgatonegro> jml2, I mean lubuntu tended to give a lot of trouble just you know, installing something.
20:06 < blackgatonegro> Granted that was ages ago.
20:06 < rascul> well, a set of metapackages anyway
20:06 < bls> lubuntu and ubuntu use the exact same tools to install things
20:07 < blackgatonegro> is more like the gui wsnt' very stable unless you limted yourseft to stuff just build for it.
20:07 < jml2> blackgatonegro, ubuntu got stable a couple years ago. their software center was very glitchy
20:08 < jml2> blackgatonegro, xubuntu is very good -- installed it recently as a test again 2 days ago...
20:08 < jml2> blackgatonegro, clean interface and runs fast
20:08 < jml2> blackgatonegro, I insatlled it as a DE choice from ubuntu's minimal mini.iso
20:08 < blackgatonegro> eh xubuntu actually works quite well.
20:09 < blackgatonegro> used it for a while, nowadays I use Linux Mint.
20:09 < jml2> iirc the mint desktop is also available a de choice from mini.iso , ...
20:10 < jml2> i'd like to see more deepin the desktop on other distros..
20:10 < blackgatonegro> I honesty prefer to burn a iso into a usb frash drive and install from there
20:10 < jml2> that's a nice integration it has for all settings in one place
20:11 < jml2> the closest other DE with full integration is suse/opensuse and mageia/mandriva-based distros..
20:13 < blackgatonegro> I hate Ubuntu gui even if they no longer use unity.
20:13 < dgurney> noted
20:13 < sauvin> I use KDE on Ubuntu.
20:14 < bls> heh, same interface on any other distro? OK. on Ubuntu? hated.
20:15 < BluesKaj> been using KDE for 13 yrs :-)
20:15 < blackgatonegro> actually I honesty hate windows 8 and 8.1 too
20:16 < blackgatonegro> is supoosed to be a desktop gui not a tablet or phone one.
20:16 < jml2> blackgatonegro, windows 8 is not a linux distribution ya noobles
20:16 < jml2> LOL
20:16 < blackgatonegro> I mean ubuntu has that windows 8 (This is a tablet!) feeling
20:16 < dgurney> windows 8.x was specifically designed for tablets, so yes, it's supposed to be one
20:17 < blackgatonegro> even without unity.
20:17 < brunch875> does freenode have any official AMD channel?
20:17 < dgurney> gnome is also made with tablets in mind
20:17 < poptix> [11/1317] uiu Channel #AMD created Fri Jan 29 14:39:35 2010
20:17 < blackgatonegro> I think I left it installed like.... 30 minutes top? Then to format the disk I went.
20:17 < Oxyz> why is it that a script works perfect when runed from the prompt.. but when launched thru openvpn profile at connect it fails ?! env stuff ?
20:17 < hexnewbie> KDE 5.x (without changing the default theme) resembles Windows >8 more so than GNOME 3 or Unity. GNOME 3 deliberately avoids looking like anythin g else
20:18 < poptix> Oxyz: either permissions, or you need to use the full path to binaries you're invoking
20:18 < blackgatonegro> Ubuntu is supposed to be a desktop and server distro, if they left the desktop version looking as it was gonna run on a tablet, even without unity around. it means they don't care.
20:18 < poptix> Oxyz: at the shell you have a full users path, when invoked by openvpn it has minimal or no $PATH
20:19 < kremator> Ubuntu...
20:19 < Oxyz> poptix: "think" I have tried it..  but still no luck.. the actual script works.. but Im tryingto call another script from within..  and that seems to screw things up :/
20:20 < blackgatonegro> Oxyz, maybe you borked the comands? Like, wrong file location and that?
20:20 < bls> Oxyz: also, if the script is calling any programs that use environment variables you normally set in your bashrc or bash_profile (java, php, perl, python, etc) those variable wont' be set
20:20 < Oxyz> this is what fails... :port=$(/etc/openvpn/pia_script/port_forwarding.sh| /usr/bin/grep -o '[[:digit:]]*')
20:20 < Oxyz> when setting that viriable
20:20 < Oxyz> ops
20:21 < poptix> Oxyz: what are the owner and mode on /etc/openvpn/pia_script/port_forwarding.sh?
20:21 < Oxyz> poptix: -rwxrwxrwx 1 root root 1246 Jan  8 05:19 /etc/openvpn/pia_script/port_forwarding.sh
20:21 < Oxyz> :-D
20:21 < Oxyz> Im going nuts...
20:22 < hexnewbie> Create port_forwarding_defs.sh in /etc/openvpn/pia_script/, and source it from port_forwarding.sh and your other scripts?
20:22 < revel> World-writable? What could possibly go wrong? :D
20:22 < hexnewbie> Also *don't* use 777 permissions on such scripts
20:22 < bls> isn't openvpn run in a chroot?
20:22 < Oxyz> hexnewbie: I know..  but Im trying everything right now ;)
20:23 < Oxyz> hexnewbie: not quite sure I follow..
20:23 < hexnewbie> Oxyz: You're attempting to parse a shell script with shell script to set a variable with data from it
20:23 < Oxyz> yep
20:24 < hexnewbie> Oxyz: Er, sorry, output from a bash script.
20:24 < blackgatonegro> Have you read the guide on how not to do programing?
20:24 < Oxyz> hexnewbie: yea.. that how I get the portnumber..
20:24 < hexnewbie> Oxyz: Yeah, I misread it a bit, that changes things slightly. No need to source it then, sorry (though you still could).
20:25 < Oxyz> blackgatonegro: haha..  I didn´t say I was a programmer.. AT ALL! =)
20:25 < blackgatonegro> great spagueti code
20:25 < Oxyz> blackgatonegro: Im doing the copy-paste with a lot of error during the way to get what I need :)
20:25 < Oxyz> U should only see the rest of the script !!!  :-D
20:25 < Oxyz> any help is much appritiated..
20:26 < blackgatonegro> copy paste can read to amusing errors
20:26 < Oxyz> and can paste bin the script if U all want a good laugh =)
20:26 < candidat> can i take a look?
20:26 < Oxyz> sure can! =)
20:26 < blackgatonegro> I bet you got many many wrong file locations hence why the script borks.
20:26 < blackgatonegro> use pastebin
20:27 < Oxyz> will do
20:27 < kleanchap> on linux, what addons for the Firefox should I use to protect from malicious web pages?
20:27 < Oxyz> just scrolling thru so U dont get any good stuff like passwd ;)
20:27 < dgurney> pastebin isn't recommended here, see topic
20:28 < blackgatonegro> eh private paste died long ago. What do they use nowadays?
20:28 < Oxyz> candidat: so..  again.. Im NOT a coder...  but I do work if I run it from the prompt ;)
20:28 < Oxyz> https://pastebin.com/LGVVzZh2
20:28 < Oxyz> will paste the included script as well
20:29 < quul> kleanchap: turn off javascript, loadable fonts, webasm, asm.js, all media playback, and you should be ok, i think they have had enough time, in theory to finally secure their jpeg/image loaders
20:29 < blackgatonegro> https://paste.linux.community/ use this instead
20:29 < candidat> it s okey Oxyz im not a coder either :)
20:29 < quul> idk about svg though
20:29 < kleanchap> quul thnx
20:30 < dgurney> that sounds very excessive to say the least
20:30 < Oxyz> and the included script is from PIA VPN...  https://privateinternetaccess.com/installer/port_forwarding.sh
20:30 < blackgatonegro> I learned to do my webpage with sweat, tears and hours of web browsing every day wa back on the mighty 2001
20:30 < blackgatonegro> having updated in like a decade _-
20:31 < blackgatonegro> don't use scripts for VPN, it ends in tears.
20:31 < hexnewbie> AH, glorious PHP 3?
20:31 < candidat> win3.1 power
20:31 < candidat> dos
20:31 < blackgatonegro> html dude, it was 2001, dial up times.
20:32 < blackgatonegro> eh had win98 se back then
20:32 < candidat> amiga 600 workbench lol 7 mhz
20:32 < candidat> black hehehe
20:32 < blackgatonegro> A father friend had a comodore 64, it was funny how the nes was so much better.. for games.
20:32 < Oxyz> oho.. BBS! My first modem was on 75 baud.. love it!
20:33 < blackgatonegro> my first moden was never used. Cause it was 1995, what Internet?
20:34 < Oxyz> :-D
20:34 < blackgatonegro> I lived out computer magazines that had miracle of miracles, cds with stuff.
20:35 < candidat> 6000 $ phone bill on my 56k modem at a blazing speed of 56kbps !
20:35 < Oxyz> blackgatonegro: Im talking before internet.. modems and BBSes..  and FidoNet ! :-D
20:35 < Oxyz> damn Im getting old...
20:35 < candidat> the good old days
20:35 < blackgatonegro> I used 2.0
20:36 < Oxyz> and the day you realized you could actually hear if the modem connected on 2400 or 9600,,  just ny listening...  LOL..  love it !
20:36 < blackgatonegro> Where in the world is carmen san diego?   Prince of persia, alleycat, can't forget alleycat. Man that game was genius programing.
20:36 < blackgatonegro> *dos 2.0
20:37 < Oxyz> Prince of persi.. loved it !
20:37 < candidat> do you remember Alone in the Dark ?
20:37 < blackgatonegro> I never used internet until like 1997. and didnt' hd it at home until 1999.
20:37 < candidat> Dune 2
20:37 < jeffree> alleycat... sounds familiar
20:37 < phogg> I never liked alone in the dark.
20:37 < Oxyz> candidat: did U get anything out of the script ?
20:37 < blackgatonegro> alone in the dark... bufgy and fun game, I think the psi port sucked. I might have the cd somewhere.
20:38 < blackgatonegro> *playstation
20:38 < blackgatonegro> Monkey island ruled
20:38 < candidat> yes monkeyisland !
20:38 < Oxyz> F/A-18... waaay to many hours ! =)
20:38 < candidat> Oxyz can you send me the link please ?
20:39 < Oxyz> I pasted it in the channel.. sending it to you
20:40 < blackgatonegro> You fight like a microsoft certified programmer!
20:42 < Oxyz> blackgatonegro: If that was aimed at me I don´t know how to react?!  ;)
20:42 < blackgatonegro> Oxyz, is a monkey island reference... somewhat.
20:43 < m4estr001> Hey all I have a problem. I will write my whole process of installation and configuration: I have installed first arch linux, made three partitions (/dev/sda1 as a EFI partition, /dev/sda2 SWAP partition and finally /dev/sda3 ext4 partition for system), i have left some free space (around 300GB) so i can later install second os for testing purposes. So when the day came, i have decieded to install second OS, so i did. I made partition /dev/sda4
20:43 < m4estr001> formated to ext4 etc... I didnt mention i was whole time using GRUB as my bootloader. When i came to the part about installing bootloader on second OS, i have left chroot, and went to first OS and generated grub.cfg (grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg) For the first try i tried automaticlly with os-prober, which did detect my arch but i was left unbootable to the second (new) while first one worked proprely as before. Here is the grub-mkconfig
20:43 < m4estr001> paste and grub.cfg of that case: https://ptpb.pw/i94z and current grub.cfg : https://pastebin.com/Wn2wWKWa . I have also tried manually to edit /etc/grub.d/40_custom and copied menuentry of first arch, edited UUIDs and partition everywhere set hd0,gp4 but with no luck too. If anyone can help i would really appricate that!
20:43 < m4estr001> Best regards :)
20:43 < ||JD||> m4estr001: calm your tits sister
20:43 < m4estr001> ||JD||, haha ok :)
20:43 < hexnewbie> Oxyz: The answer is ‘How appropriate, you fight like a bad command or file name’
20:44 < Oxyz> hexnewbie: roger that !
20:46 < blackgatonegro> gotta reboot, bye guys.
20:54 < Pritchard> Hello, I'm on CentOS and trying to get this LAST_BACKUP_FILE to register in my cronjob... I can test this .sh file locally, but when it runs through crontab, the LAST_BACKUP_FILE variable is blank: https://gist.github.com/PritchardAlexander/78c99439cfd6315816699112f67938bf
20:55 < Pritchard> I'm trying to set an environment variable in my cronjob and utilize it in the same script... or very easily execute script 1 then forward that environment to script 2...
20:56 < dannylee> 8-)
20:56 < phogg> Pritchard: you should set your PATH in your script to what you depend on so as to avoid the chance of the calling environment not having something you require
20:57 < phogg> Pritchard: you should add a bang line at the top of your script because you depend on bash features but do not describe that anywhere
20:57 < Pritchard> @phogg: This script creates a backup and then uses the name of the last backup file to send an alert email... There is nothing external to pass in...
20:57 < phogg> Pritchard: you should rename your script file so as to remove the .sh suffix. This is considered best practices for scripts.
20:58 < phogg> Pritchard: you should quote the expansion of LAST_BACKUP_FILE on line 15 to prevent unusual file names from breaking your script
20:58 < phogg> Pritchard: who said there was anything external?
20:58 < Pritchard> phogg: I guess I don't understand the suggestion, then.
20:59 < phogg> Pritchard: you should use $() instead of ``. The `` syntax is deprecated since the 80s.
20:59 < phogg> Pritchard: which one?
21:00 < Pritchard> Nevermind. I misread.
21:00 < Pritchard> Sorry, I thought you were answering the question directly with the first suggestion on PATH.
21:00 < ikonia> I'm trying to recover a block level copy of a disk of a very old system into a kvm vm, the disk image I have is of a single disk of a raid mirror. I'm mounted the image, adjusted grub and fstab to reference the device name, rather than the meta device, it fails to boot, still checking for members, probably down to the initrd
21:00 < ikonia> I'm trying to work out the best way to approach this enough to get the vm to boot
21:01 < ikonia> any suggestions ?
21:01 < donrobin> What is exactly Linux? Is it a clone of Unix? Is it derived from Unix source code?
21:02 < Pritchard> @donrobin: Oh boy.
21:02 < phogg> donrobin: Kind of and no.
21:02 < phogg> donrobin: You should ask Google as this has been covered very well many times elsewhere.
21:03 < Pritchard> No, it's not a clone of Linux. The first version was created a long time ago by Linus Torvalds because Unix became very closed and proprietary and he needed an open source Unix-type operating system.
21:03 < phogg> donrobin: I will be happy to answer very *specific* questions about Linux, but "What is it?" is kind of hard.
21:03 < ananke> donrobin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux
21:04 < phogg> Pritchard: No, it was created because Andy Tannenbaum wasn't interested in merging patches to add virtual memory, multithreaded filesystem access or other performance hacks.
21:04 < candidat> its an animal
21:04 < candidat> it can swim in water
21:04 < phogg> Llamas are bigger than frogs.
21:04 < cxc99> is there a way to turn on nfs logging? i keep getting permission denied
21:04 < phogg> cxc99: yes
21:05 < sudo_halt> You see, there was Unix, and its derivatives. A Unix-like system (a system designed to be like Unix, but isnt a direct decendant) at the time (and still) is/was Minix. Linus Torvalds was unhappy with Minix's closed-source model (at that time) and created his own kernel for 386 he had. After that follows a series of events that lead to Gnu/Linux back in the good 'ol days
21:05 < donrobin> Pritchard, But the linux system call convention(names, environments..) looks like the same with unix? I mean, They have something in common.
21:06 < Pritchard> donrobin: I don't know anything about Unix proper except its relationship to Linux, sorry.
21:06 < sudo_halt> So in shot Linux is "unix-like", a system that works and looks like Unix, but isnt a direct decendant with shared code with Unix.
21:06 < cxc99> i'm trying to use a kerberos keytab file
21:06 < cxc99> somehow i got it to work on one server
21:06 < cxc99> i've tried using mount -vvv
21:06 < sudo_halt> there are other Unix-derivated and Unix-like OSs too, Unix-derivatives such as BSD and Unix-likes such as Minix and Linux and what ever
21:06 < noodlepie> Linux is a system operating kernel which lets you access the disk and run your own programs. You run the GNU operating environment on top. All the code is GPLd which means you can change it and distribute it as long as you let your users have the same freedoms from you. It is based on the Unix design but today conforms to many open standards for open systems in general
21:07 < NickOfThyme> linux is the only relevant one though
21:07 < phogg> cxc99: it has been a while but as I recall you need to start the nfs daemon with verbosity options (and possibly the client too)
21:07 < sudo_halt> Well since PS4 is practically FreeBSD and Macs run the DARWIN kernel id say there are other 'relevant' ones too....
21:08 < NickOfThyme> that's more of a corporate thing. users don't actually run "freebsd" in a general sense
21:08 < phogg> donrobin: Linux supports all *standardized* system calls from the Unix side, as well as some common ones which are not standardized. It also adds a lot more. Quite a lot.
21:09 < pankaj> I know it is an easy question but what is the command to copy files on the basis of user name or group name ?
21:09 < NickOfThyme> a few people run freebsd servers and claim it's faster for some server operations, and that's about it.
21:09 < phogg> The beauty of Unix is that it's so simple anyone modestly familiar with it can create a workalike from memory any time it's needed. This has been done several times.
21:09 < sudo_halt> Funny. Tannenbaum ended up creating the same stuff he rejected as patches and he ended up open-sourcing the code too. But i guess a bit too late tho
21:09 < phogg> pankaj: you mean copy files that are owned by a specific user or group?
21:09 < donrobin> phogg, then Is linux based on unix standards?
21:10 < noodlepie> donrobin, only as a design template
21:10 < sudo_halt> Its follows the Unix way of doing things....
21:10 < NickOfThyme> I think even despite the year of the linux desktop never happening, normies at least recognize the name and have a vague idea of what it is. people don't know what 'freebsd' is much less any of the rest.
21:10 < phogg> sudo_halt: if minix3 had been started in 1993 under the GPL Linux may not have gained the stature it did
21:10 < Pritchard> All right... I think I know how to solve my crontab environment variables problem. First: Execute a script that outputs to an environment file. Second: To that, "&&" a second script to run that depends on that environment variable.
21:10 < phogg> donrobin: More or less. It's highly compatible with them purely in the interests of practicality. It also has much more to it than the standards.
21:11 < phogg> Pritchard: you should also *always* check your work with shellcheck
21:11 < mawk> what's the default metric for a route ?
21:11 < mawk> or maybe it has no default, a route can be metric-less
21:11 < donrobin> phogg, okay. Actually I got the question "What is the difference between UNIX and LINUX?" and I was in stuck at that time.
21:12 < Pritchard> ^-- SC2148: Tips depend on target shell and yours is unknown. Add a shebang.
21:12 < sudo_halt> Unix was an old system that became a kind of refrence OS standard over the years, Linux is an 'unix-like' systems
21:12 < phogg> donrobin: UNIX is not an acronym, nor is Linux. UNIX when written in all caps is a registered trademark. Unix when not capitalized is understood to mean Unix-like.
21:12 < Pritchard> How do I mark my script as depending on bash?
21:12 < noodlepie> linux can be pronouned "nu", silent 'li' and 'x' and so can the GNU Operating System at gnu.org, or lin-ucks and guhnoo by the official definition pronunciations
21:12 < phogg> DonRichie: so please do not write it like that
21:12 < phogg> Pritchard: add a bang line, as I said
21:12 < phogg> Pritchard: #!/bin/bash as the first line
21:13 < Pritchard> phogg: ty
21:13 < phogg> DonRichie: sorry, wrong completion. Go back to sleep.
21:14 < phogg> donrobin: the distinction between UNIX and Unix mattered *quite a lot* around the time Linux was getting going due to active lawsuits between AT&T and the BSD developers.
21:14 < NickOfThyme> lol software litigation
21:14 < NickOfThyme> that's it. that's the joke
21:14 < phogg> lol, at&t lost
21:14 < NickOfThyme> software patents are a joke
21:14 < sudo_halt> the 'new' SCO's yearly IBM lawsuits follow:
21:15 < phogg> the SCO lawsuits were always obviously a joke. Okay maybe for the *first* year some less clued in people found them credible
21:15 < sudo_halt> I mean, how the hell. SCO bought the right to linux. They were bought by another dude. then someone bought the Unix rights from them and re-named themselves SCO to represent the actuall SCO, and thet sue IBM for something every year.
21:15 < bls> the AT&T lawsuits were not a joke though
21:15 < NickOfThyme> it's a joke but still fatal
21:16 < sudo_halt> I mean Unix!
21:16 < phogg> Yeah, the AT&T suits were serious and credible.
21:16 < sudo_halt> I said Linux at some point.... my bad
21:16 < NickOfThyme> all of this corporate warfare is an unmitigated joke
21:17 < brunch875> Does anyone have one of the polaris AMD cards? I have no idea which method we're to follow nowadays to disable vsync
21:17 < sudo_halt> Anybody remember when some dude decided to ask for royalties over using Linux when he had nothing to do with Linux?
21:17 < NickOfThyme> the only reason it's not is market share, ironically. same way gladiator fights 2000 years ago had market share
21:17 < brunch875> drirc not working, xorg.conf not working...
21:17 < bls> sudo_halt: pretty sure that guy is still suing people and making money
21:17 < sudo_halt> what about "/usr/share/X11" < put a config there?
21:18 < sudo_halt> bls, Really????
21:18 < bls> sudo_halt: yeah, let me dig out the story
21:18 < brunch875> sudo_halt, you're my hero
21:18 < brunch875> there's a 10-radeon.conf there
21:18 < brunch875> guess that's it!
21:20 < Tech_8> hi
21:21 < stevendale> Hi Tech_8
21:21 < bls> sudo_halt: might not be the same as this guy was tangentially related to linux: https://opensource.com/article/17/8/patrick-mchardy-and-copyright-profiteering
21:22 < sudo_halt> I remember when Internet Explorer was first released a website called "IE is EVIL" started (which is still online). Why "systemD is evil" reminding me of that....
21:22 < noodlepie> Linux 4.16.8-gentoo stable here, updated today.
21:23 < Tech_8> cool
21:24 < sudo_halt> No, not the same guy and not the same thing.
21:24 < phogg> sudo_halt: that wasn't upon first release, that was only after Win95 with IE4.
21:24 < sudo_halt> That guy was William R. Della Croce, Jr. he filed for a trademark on Linux in the US and asked for royalties on its usage.
21:24 < Tech_8> anyone miss windows 98
21:24 < Tech_8> or win xp
21:24 < phogg> before IE4 nobody cared about IE enough to hate it that much. When it started taking over the desktop people started hating it.
21:24 < solidfox> windows xp
21:24 < brunch875> Tech_8, not at all
21:24 < sudo_halt> oh, my memory isnt working correctly
21:24 < solidfox> those were the good ol days
21:25 < phogg> sudo_halt: you are only off by a few months anyway
21:25 < brunch875> it doesn't have drag-to-top to maximize window
21:25 < Tech_8> yeah win xp is my fav windows
21:25 < spreeuw> "active desktop"
21:25 < phogg> spreeuw: with "push notifications"!!
21:25 < spreeuw> haah yeah
21:25 < sudo_halt> I miss windows XP's GUI. which we can get in Linux with the Trinity Desktop Environment.
21:25 < phogg> guys guys
21:25 < phogg> get this
21:25 < spreeuw> the hip new thing
21:25 < phogg> you can put a widget on your desktop which is actually a little piece of a web page
21:25 < solidfox> Tech_8, I loved the feature where you could put assembly into an environment variable, derail a program to return to that location and start executing arbitrary code.
21:25 < spreeuw> well windows 10 finally succeeded
21:25 < phogg> and it will periodically update itself from the source web site when you're dialed in to the internet
21:26 < phogg> isn't that great?
21:26 < spreeuw> they push all kinds of junk tiles on noob users
21:26 < phogg> spreeuw: yup, pretty much the same thing
21:26 < sudo_halt> XFCE with WinXP theme and Trinity are seriosly giving me XP feels....
21:26 < donrobin> I want to change my system to Linux completely. I want to get away from Windows damn license. But I can't because so many programs still rely on Windows.
21:26 < spreeuw> aside from the spyware and the license its a decent desktop
21:26 < phogg> sudo_halt: try doing an XFce classic MacOS total conversion. You can get quite close.
21:26 < fendur> sudo_halt: are you convulsing?
21:27 < spreeuw> on my ubuntu I use xfce4 too
21:27 < phogg> donrobin: Most Windows programs either have native Linux alternatives or can be run directly on Linux via Wine.
21:27 < Tech_8> donrobin: ther is wine
21:27 < spreeuw> not perfect, but the least worst
21:27 < phogg> donrobin: chances are that everything you need is available.
21:27 < Tech_8> to emulate windows
21:27 < sudo_halt> not really
21:27 < solidfox> Tech_8, what's your favorite windows xp hack
21:27 < solidfox> or feature
21:27 < sudo_halt> Or a bug called a feature
21:27 < solidfox> sudo_halt, :P
21:28 < sudo_halt> :P
21:28 < phogg> blue screen of death
21:28 < sudo_halt> saw that coming
21:28 < solidfox> damn I miss that BSOD
21:28 < solidfox> the new one is so modern
21:28 < phogg> solidfox: that's what the BSOD xscreensaver hack is for
21:28 < bls> don't forget powertools and powertoys
21:28 < sudo_halt> But lets be honest. back in the day XP advanced windows Driver Interface and a lot of people had crappy drivers.
21:28 < phogg> I have freaked myself out more than once with that one.
21:28 < solidfox> hahah I should install that
21:28 < jeffree> wait, they don't even do a proper BSOD now?
21:29 < donrobin> phogg, yeah, true. But there are some programs which heavily rely on windows internals for their functionality. They can't run even in wine.
21:29 < phogg> jeffree: as far as I know they do, it's just less common
21:29 < bls> didn't they just change the color?
21:29 < phogg> donrobin: Such as?
21:29 < sudo_halt> They changed color on Beta builds.
21:29 < jeffree> whew
21:29 < fendur> donrobin: just curious, what is it you need that relies on windows?
21:29 < sudo_halt> Its called a bugcheck in windows beta builds and is green.
21:29 < donrobin> phogg, Banking system.
21:29 < phogg> donrobin: What bank?
21:29 < bls> heh, are you in S. Korea?
21:29 < phogg> donrobin: most of them provide a web based option these days
21:30 < donrobin> phogg, It's not in US.
21:30 < phogg> donrobin: worst case scenario you can keep a windows virtual machine around for that
21:30 < sudo_halt> Our banks still run some sort of Unix
21:30 < phogg> sudo_halt: good to hear
21:31 < phogg> I once saw an OS/2 crash screen on my bank's ATM screen.
21:31 < phogg> I changed banks
21:31 < sudo_halt> Its called Parsix if im not mistaken.
21:31 < sudo_halt> OS/2... oh man
21:31 < jeffree> dude, most machines are not maintained
21:31 < Psi-Jack> Heh, OS/2 is still popularly used by banks.
21:31 < jeffree> so much stuff still running xp
21:32 < solidfox> heh wonder why there aren't more bank robberies
21:32 < dannylee> some bank still use windows servers...but the main frame is unix
21:32 < donrobin> phogg, I want to keep my privacy about my location. But I give you a hint. Some banks here use activex and people need to install security program in their computers. Of course It's working in windows VM.
21:32 < Psi-Jack> Later versions of OS/2 actually supported IBM's own JFS filesystem.
21:32 < solidfox> jeffree, am I right or am I right?
21:32 < bls> heheh, OS/2 ATMs with a central server running AIX on a Power machine?
21:32 < jeffree> solidfox: it does make one wonder
21:32 < solidfox> jeffree, join me
21:32 < jeffree> lol
21:32 < solidfox> jeffree, in outer heaven, men become demons.
21:32 < donrobin> phogg, Nowadays some banks are trying to follow web standards.
21:33 < Tech_8> is os2 mac
21:33 < sudo_halt> Our gov made a unix-derivative some day when Unix was still quite a something and decided to develop it internally all they way untill now.
21:33 < phogg> donrobin: mine has been doing that for over a decade
21:33 < sudo_halt> Also see: eComStation
21:33 < fendur> Tech_8: I thought it was ibm
21:33 < phogg> sudo_halt: that is actually a very rational thing to do
21:33 < Tech_8> fendur: im not sure
21:33 < donrobin> and those security programs only run in Windows.
21:33 < phogg> sudo_halt: yeah, ecomstation exists pretty much because of banks that don't want to switch away from OS/2
21:34 < phogg> donrobin: change banks. That's what I would do.
21:34 < donrobin> phogg, I did already. :))
21:34 < fendur> Tech_8: interwebs say ibm+MS for a while
21:35 < phogg> Tech_8: OS/2 is IBM. Technically it was IBM and Microsoft and started in the late 80s, then a bit later Microsoft pulled out and made their own followup to PC-DOS called NT.
21:35 < Tech_8> ok
21:35 < sudo_halt> IBM: So hey microsoft give your OS to us now... Microsoft: yeah sure, heres a middle finger and we'll give you the rest of the code later
21:35 < phogg> Tech_8: This is why the first NT version was 3.x. Version 2.x was still OS/2.
21:35 < sudo_halt> MS/IBM in the 80's
21:35 < solidfox> sudo_halt, lol
21:36 < phogg> OS/2 2.x had a UI that looked pretty much identical to Win3.x
21:36 < sudo_halt> CDE 4 lyfe
21:36 < phogg> s/CDE/ugly/ fixed it for ya
21:36 < sudo_halt> No not really, it looked terrible, but hey
21:36 < Tech_8> did windows 95 come after windows 3 NT
21:37 < phogg> Tech_8: yes
21:37 < sudo_halt> Anybody here misses Adie text editor and FOX toolkit? Manjaro still has them in repos
21:37 < phogg> Tech_8: also, ask Wikipedia
21:37 < sudo_halt> Or had, last time i checked
21:37 < solidfox> I wish the windows channel was as fun as this one.
21:37 < phogg> who still uses FOX?
21:37 < solidfox> FOX?
21:37 < solidfox> I want it
21:37 < phogg> I would just as soon choose Athena
21:38 < bls> Xaw was "ugly", all the slick UIs use Xv
21:38 < bls> :P
21:38 < Psi-Jack> phogg: Heh, back in the day I really did like OS/2. I'd run my BBS off OS/2 for a few years.
21:38 < sudo_halt> Well i installed FOX in manjaro from repos back when i had manjaro
21:39 < phogg> Psi-Jack: in the 90s OS/2 vs. windows was a clear no-contest in OS/2's favor. But to still be running OS/2 in 2005 is a bit of a problem.
21:39 < solidfox> eh w/e
21:39 < Psi-Jack> Heh
21:39 < solidfox> FOX is probably useless
21:39 < Tech_8> do you use antivirus such as norton on debian linux
21:39 < Psi-Jack> phogg: Well, there's a company licensed to still make it, and, they do.
21:40 < sudo_halt> I mean, Unix-malware is a thing, but an A/V is pretty much not needed
21:40 < solidfox> Tech_8, sometimes I install sophos antivirus, which is free (gratis and libre)
21:40 < phogg> Psi-Jack: eComStation, yeah
21:40 < donrobin> The security programs have the following functions : 1. lock screen capture. 2. prevent intercepting key press. 3. malicious network traffic detection. 4. block mouse control over the IE menu. 5. Even after banking they do something in background. 6. etc..
21:40 < Psi-Jack> eComStation, even has the yum package manager. :)
21:40 < phogg> Psi-Jack: isn't "a company" actually "Red Hat"?
21:40 < solidfox> Tech_8, but really. the best protection is not to visit bad sites, use questionable programs etc
21:40 < Psi-Jack> phogg: No
21:40 < sudo_halt> The systemd company?
21:41 < sudo_halt> BTW theres also ClamAV, but last time i checked it was trash
21:41 < donrobin> So the program always conflicts with another program. because it works as system-wide.
21:42 < Tech_8> i used to use freebsd
21:42 < Tech_8> anyone use that?
21:42 < Psi-Jack> Funny too, I recently did a podcast involving OS/2. hehe
21:42 < sudo_halt> Anti-malware on Unix search for known Unix malware patterns (usually). Most of them dont interfere with anything really
21:42 < Psi-Jack> Tech_8: Never will I even consider FreeBSD again,.
21:43 < spreeuw> I use osx it has the best backdoors
21:43 < spreeuw> yet all the benefits of bsd
21:43 < sudo_halt> I tried FreeBSD on a VM, and it was ok-ish. then decided to use TrueOS
21:43 < sudo_halt> and lets just say
21:43 < sudo_halt> they need to learn how to put MESA into a unix system.
21:43 < NickOfThyme> black mesa
21:43 < Psi-Jack> If you want BSD, go OpenBSD, where you have to whip out your calculator to properly calculate partition sizes by blocks. :)
21:44 < Psi-Jack> hehe
21:44 < sudo_halt> that ^
21:44 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, why not freebsd?
21:44 < NickOfThyme> truedatOS
21:44 < spreeuw> use pen and paper
21:44 < sudo_halt> Okay everybody, hold my beer
21:44 < sudo_halt> Im going to install Minix 3
21:44 < solidfox> I want beer
21:44 < prussian> why
21:44  * solidfox grabs
21:44 < solidfox> prussian, its a cool microkernel os
21:45 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: Because... Many reasons. They are so disorganized it's not even funny. They'll remove code that's not "perfect", instead of fixing the actual code to make it better. Many reasons.
21:45 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, I see. I prefer linux because it seems to work better for me. also last time I used man on freebsd, the width was set to some weird constant instead of my current terminal size.
21:45 < solidfox> man and less
21:46 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: And to think.. That
21:46 < solidfox> also I had some utf8 problem I didn't understand
21:46 < Psi-Jack> 's by design!
21:46 < sudo_halt> Minix is a microkernel that does the job really well actually, Its just that getting a proper X11 to work with it is.... less than optimal.
21:46 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, lol really?
21:46 < Psi-Jack> Yes
21:46 < NickOfThyme> real hackers use haikuOS
21:46 < quul> what x11 does minix use, xfree86?
21:47 < phogg> NickOfThyme: how is haiku these days?
21:47 < phogg> quul: no, xorg like everybody else
21:47 < quul> bah!
21:47 < Pentode> haiku is almost dead :|
21:47 < sudo_halt> XF86 on Minix-Old
21:47 < NickOfThyme> phogg, like 3 lines of poetry
21:48 < sudo_halt> And (LMAO WHO NEED A DESKTOP) on Minix-new
21:48 < sudo_halt> X.Org has some problems with Minix graphics stack.
21:49 < sudo_halt> A problem which i once sought to solve, but didnt go that well....
21:49 < NickOfThyme> linux is the winner in this hunger games. death to all the bsds and others!
21:49 < solidfox> agreed
21:49 < solidfox> linux is best
21:50 < phogg> No death. Linux won't last forever. A replacement that's also GPL'd will eventually take over. Only a matter of time.
21:50 < sudo_halt> Real hackers do (os-dev)
21:50 < sudo_halt> A replacement that ISNT gpl'd. so you see, gpl is quite restrictive in the lisence
21:50 < solidfox> phogg, why won't linux last forever?
21:50 < phogg> A non-GPL replacement is no replacement at all.
21:50 < mutante> installs GNU/Hurd
21:50 < uplime> nothing lasts forever
21:50 < phogg> solidfox: simple deduction
21:51 < mutante> solidfox: Linux is only needed until Hurd is finished and GNU is complete :)
21:51 < solidfox> phogg, sure. please elaborate.
21:51 < j0seph> you mean to tell me that you lot don't just astral project into your motherboards and flip all the switches yourself?
21:51 < NickOfThyme> I doubt linux will be replaced. maybe it will change so much that it's indistinguishable
21:51 < solidfox> NickOfThyme, you mean so that it's unrecognizable
21:51 < revel> mutante: And Hurd is just around the corner too, right?
21:52 < NickOfThyme> pretty sure the robot uprising will run on linux
21:52 < solidfox> NickOfThyme, indistinguishable means they'd be the same
21:52 < mutante> revel: i ask about once a year :)
21:52 < phogg> solidfox: Thought experiment: Is the Linux the best possible OS that ever could be created?
21:52 < sudo_halt> Lets be realstic. GNU isnt the best of the best. If a non-GPL kernel comparable to Linux rise, there are tools that can be brought together
21:52 < NickOfThyme> solidfox, oops yeah, that's what I meant
21:52 < revel> Have they banned you from asking yet?
21:52 < mutante> revel: but timelines didn't matter for the question, they said "forever" :)
21:52 < sudo_halt> Yet that requires someone hellbent on killing GNU.
21:52 < solidfox> phogg, prolly not. setuid.
21:52 < phogg> solidfox: Another angle: Linux may be the best possible OS for traditional Von Neumann machines. If a new computer architecture is created will Linux make any sense?
21:53 < sudo_halt> Please. Linux is better than Hurd.
21:53 < NickOfThyme> what non-gpl kernel will rise? freebsd?
21:53 < solidfox> phogg, like that quantum shit?
21:53 < phogg> solidfox: perhaps
21:53 < sudo_halt> A bunch of whatever running on top of Mach? nope, thx
21:53 < sudo_halt> No, FBSD is too monolithicc
21:53 < j0seph> sudo_halt: will hurd ever release fully anyway
21:53 < sudo_halt> i mean monolithic
21:53 < phogg> solidfox: even without that scaling limitations will eventually cause people to seek new models.
21:53 < candidat> net neutrality is in danger in us
21:53 < solidfox> phogg, I guess you can crack a password, but if you try to look at the result the value becomes the wrong value.
21:53 < mutante> sounds like you would want a micro kernel approach like .. Hurd
21:53 < sudo_halt> GNU Hurd will release when comp.os dies
21:53 < NickOfThyme> the gazillion trillion bazillion dollar manhours blood sweat of a corporation already proved a closed kernel is not superior. and freebsd is basically the poolboy source code of a corporation's niche product
21:53 < sudo_halt> i.e never
21:54 < j0seph> sudo_halt: https://xkcd.com/1508/
21:54 < candidat> NickOfThyme poolboy ?
21:54 < candidat> what that mean ?
21:54 < phogg> One day a better OS than Linux which is similarly free will be created and when it is available people will switch and Linux will die... and that will be a good thing, because if it dies it's only because we all agree that it should.
21:54 < NickOfThyme> candidat, apple
21:54 < sudo_halt> Theres an XKCD for every situation, eh?
21:54 < NickOfThyme> is the pool user
21:55 < NickOfThyme> I don't see anything replacing linux as what it is
21:55 < phogg> solidfox: that's not how quantum computers work
21:55 < solidfox> phogg, the majority of ppl send their garbage to landfill instead of recycling, does that mean its a good thing?
21:55 < sudo_halt> Lets see. A microkernel that can 'connect' proccesses into the kernel to be semi-hybrid will have good performance, and can scale to anything.
21:55 < sudo_halt> Even multiple machines.
21:55 < solidfox> phogg, oh
21:55 < mutante> this discussion would make more sense if we would use accurate terms for what the kernel is and what the OS is ..
21:56 < phogg> solidfox: the majority of people are *not* software engineers
21:56 < sudo_halt> *ehem*
21:56 < NickOfThyme> this software code is looking similar to DNA, in that it changes but doesn't get replaced.
21:56 < sudo_halt> have a look http://wiki.osdev.org/Main_Page
21:56 < phogg> solidfox: if a new thing is not better we'll keep using Linux. It only takes a handful of crazies to keep it going forever.
21:56 < NickOfThyme> maybe linux could get forked into something else
21:56 < solidfox> phogg, how does quantum hash party work then?
21:57 < mutante> ..handful of crazies.. something ..TempleOS
21:57 < NickOfThyme> and then the original linux would become obsolete
21:57 < phogg> solidfox: I cannot explain it. In my most zen moments I can sometimes *sometimes* understand it.
21:57 < phogg> NickOfThyme: This has already happened many times. Social pressure keeps Linus' version as the "real" one, nothing more.
21:57 < sudo_halt> people tried to make the Monolithic kernel linux has into a Hybrid one.
21:57 < solidfox> the qbits can be in a superpositon
21:57 < sudo_halt> That project failed.
21:58 < phogg> sudo_halt: it has been happening bit by bit for years
21:58 < candidat> qbit computers will mean the end of cryptocurrencies :)
21:58 < phogg> sudo_halt: lots of things in Linux are actually in userspace; it's not all microkernel and was not *designed* to be, but it smells a bit like that in places
21:58 < candidat> or the beginning of a new era
21:58 < NickOfThyme> phogg, yeah, those attempts aren't relevant imo
21:58 < solidfox> candidat, thats what I'm saying, phogg said I don't get quantum computers
21:58 < NickOfThyme> some ego driven project is not really a thing in this context
21:58 < sudo_halt> You see, theres this difference.
21:58 < phogg> sudo_halt: my POV is that this trend will continue in the name of safety.
21:59 < sudo_halt> Linux has drivers and some other stuff in kernel right?
21:59 < phogg> candidat: both of those things, if they can be made to work
21:59 < phogg> sudo_halt: some drivers are in the kernel... some are not.
21:59 < sudo_halt> A microkernel has everything in "middle land" and connects to them with calls. thats the performance thing.
21:59 < candidat> solidfox quantum computers will be able to break the blockchain ?
21:59 < jeffree> anyone have tips on why virtualbox is slow for me on my kaby lake processor and ubuntu 18.04 host?
21:59 < sudo_halt> A hybrid kernel is a middle ground. Something Linux (kind of) IS
21:59 < NickOfThyme> the issue of software forking is an interesting philosophical analysis of independence vs collaboration. there is no easy answer and anyone that thinks so is a kid.
22:00 < phogg> candidat: theoretically they can factor primes like you would not believe
22:00 < solidfox> jeffree, lscpu
22:00 < sudo_halt> and then Monolithic stuff. Linux has a big kernel with some drivers and CPU arch support and what not in kernel. So its low-key monolithic kind of Hybrid
22:00 < candidat> phogg interresting
22:00 < phogg> candidat: there is apparently some debate about whether the results could actually be faster than classical computing. Some say yes, some say it's not clear that the answer is yes.
22:01 < jeffree> solidfox: is there a particular part you want?
22:01 < solidfox> jeffree, whole output
22:01 < solidfox> jeffree, how much ram?
22:01 < jeffree> 16G
22:01 < solidfox> ok ok
22:01 < sudo_halt> Microsoft is looking into quantum computers.
22:01 < phogg> candidat: if the camp that thinks it will work is correct then everything based the fact that factoring primes is hard (you know, all modern encryption) becomes instantly breakable to anyone who can afford a quantum computer.
22:01 < solidfox> jeffree, ram speed?
22:02 < NickOfThyme> I think in relation to which software wins out, software quality is not so relevant. it's often not.
22:02 < sudo_halt> Wild guess: Windows 10 S running in quantum mode
22:02 < jeffree> solidfox: 3200mhz
22:02 < phogg> candidat: these days that still requires a vacuum chamber and insane cooling (like, approaching absolute zero insane)
22:02 < oleo> erm, how do they handle IO for such a fast puter ?
22:02 < NickOfThyme> even our qwerty keyboards are objectively inferior to dvorak keyboards
22:02 < NickOfThyme> if you were starting from scratch, that is
22:03 < oleo> do they have quantum bus and quantum ram and quantum hd as well ?
22:03 < phogg> NickOfThyme: that's not completely clear either
22:03 < NickOfThyme> phogg, I've seen plenty of evidence it is
22:03 < phogg> oleo: they don't have anything at this time
22:03 < oleo> ah
22:03 < candidat> phogg it needs electricity :)
22:03 < solidfox> jeffree, if you have netcat
22:03 < NickOfThyme> I've seen studies that suggest dvorak is better. I've yet to see one that claims qwerty is better, but only about the same.
22:03 < solidfox> jeffree, lscpu | nc termbin.com 9999
22:03 < sudo_halt> Dont worry. We'll let the same nuclear reactor powering old AMD graphics power the quantum computer.
22:04 < sudo_halt> We'll end with extra power tool.
22:04 < sudo_halt> too*
22:04 < solidfox> jeffree, then paste the link
22:04 < mutante> NickOfThyme: qwerty is better.. if you are using a mechanical typewriter
22:04 < NickOfThyme> mutante, based on what?
22:04 < phogg> NickOfThyme: Lots of people have *claimed* dvorak is better and it may be true. I have seen *no* credible studies which show this is the case. It's all anecdotal.
22:04 < mutante> the layout is due to mechanical reasons
22:04 < jeffree> solidfox: https://pastebin.com/gy5u2Yhq
22:04 < solidfox> smh
22:04 < NickOfThyme> depends how you define credible
22:04 < sudo_halt> Guys. What the hell is Dvorak layout.
22:04 < sudo_halt> thx.
22:04 < jeffree> solidfox: why would you care what site?
22:04 < NickOfThyme> as I said, evidence on one side is still more likely to be true when there is none in the other
22:04 < solidfox> jeffree, pastebin is scum. but I will look anyway since its not blocked in my jurisdiction.
22:04 < phogg> mutante: actually, the layout is not for mechanical reasons. There's no evidence of that either.
22:04 < mutante> NickOfThyme: it's to avoid mechanical failure in early typewriters.. placing most common characters far from each other
22:05 < NickOfThyme> you're both in disagreement then
22:05 < jeffree> that's not a reason
22:05 < solidfox> jeffree, malware ads
22:05 < jeffree> hmm
22:05 < phogg> mutante: early typewriter keyboards used a variety of layouts and the models which introduced querty had a design which made the key layout quite irrelevant.
22:05 < NickOfThyme> the argument against dvorak is the same against climate change
22:05 < solidfox> jeffree, adblocker harrasment
22:05 < jeffree> solidfox: I know nothing about that, I'll look into it
22:06 < NickOfThyme> I would bet on dvorak winning out in a scientific study, which would be too expensive for anyone to conduct
22:06 < solidfox> jeffree, dunno why its slow. does the vm have enough cores and memory allocated to it?
22:06 < solidfox> jeffree, what kind of hard drive do you have?
22:06 < sudo_halt> holy hell.
22:06 < phogg> mutante: http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2012/01/the-origin-of-the-qwerty-keyboard/
22:06 < NickOfThyme> but forget dvorak, look at your own eyeballs. our eyeballs are imperfect but they were "good enough"
22:07 < mutante> phogg: "characters were mounted on metal arms or type bars, which would clash and jam if neighbouring arms were pressed at the same time or in rapid succession. Secondly, its printing point was located beneath the paper carriage, invisible to the operator, a so-called "up-stroke" design. "
22:07 < jeffree> solidfox: I don't think it should need more than 1 core cor basic stuff. it's a nvme drive so that's not a problem
22:07 < sudo_halt> I just took a look at Dvorak and one thing is for sure. im not going to leave QWERTY behind.
22:07 < mutante> "Sholes struggled for the next five years to perfect his invention, making many trial-and-error rearrangements of the original machine's alphabetical key arrangement. "
22:07 < jml2> not nice to insult dvorak keyboard users...
22:07 < bls> you can't judge a key layout based purely on typing speed either. external factors like "I can't use anyone else's keyboard/no one can use mine" have to come into play as well
22:07 < mutante> phogg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#History
22:08 < NickOfThyme> our eyeballs have veins in awkward places which make them flawed, and eyeballs themselves were designed for an aquatic environment and work best there.
22:08 < solidfox> jeffree, on these modern cpus, each core runs at its own speed
22:08 < jeffree> yep
22:08 < solidfox> jeffree, a cpu can't "slow down" but if you have one core thats slow, and one thats fast you can slow it down that way.
22:08 < NickOfThyme> when you move one finger on your hand, that's an 'software' addon, actually you prevent other fingers from moving rather than controlling one finger, less efficient.;
22:08 < solidfox> jeffree, maybe your vm has the slow core
22:08 < UristMcRM|Tux> #dvorakmasterrace
22:09 < solidfox> jeffree, give it more cores and see if that helps
22:09 < bls> UristMcRM|Tux: not in here
22:09 < sudo_halt> People talking about windows, linux, unix, Dvorak, VMs, and all other kinds of crap come together. What would you call that place?
22:09 < sudo_halt> The #linux
22:09 < NickOfThyme> what "wins" is usually "good enough" not "best"
22:09 < NickOfThyme> that's why AI will beat us
22:09 < solidfox> sudo_halt, haha me and jeffree are good friends in another channel. we trade bitcoins!
22:10 < solidfox> right jeffree
22:10 < solidfox> sudo_halt, he's also secretly my coworker and won't admit it :P
22:10 < sudo_halt> *jeffree fades into a veil of darkness*
22:10 < solidfox> sudo_halt, and he says I have some mental/memory issues all the time as a joke
22:10 < jeffree> solidfox is confused and I suspect slightly insane
22:10 < solidfox> jeffree, hahaha good one buddy. keep em coming
22:11 < sudo_halt> hey wait a minute.
22:11 < sudo_halt> This is confusing.
22:11 < solidfox> jeffree, didju buy this dip
22:11 < phogg> mutante: the design you're quoting isn't the Remington No 2. The way its printing worked no longer had that problem. I'm trying to find a good reference for this.
22:12 < sudo_halt> So if you are right, jeffree is making a joke on your mental health. If Jeffree is right what you are saying isnt right.
22:12 < solidfox> I didn't cause I spent my entire life savings on Flamin' Hot Cheetos and beer recently :x
22:12 < solidfox> sudo_halt, ofc its a joke. do I seem insane to you?
22:12 < solidfox> sudo_halt, I talked to you earlier.
22:12 < sudo_halt> .......
22:12 < prussian> what
22:13 < solidfox> jeffree, let me know how that goes, increasing the # of cores for your vm
22:13 < solidfox> jeffree, sometimes you need to enable VT-x in your bios to do that
22:13 < jeffree> pretty sure vt-x is enabled
22:13 < solidfox> oh ok
22:13 < candidat> phogg i bet the military already have quantum computers :)
22:14 < candidat> they have 10 years in advance compared to us
22:14 < phogg> candidat: it's still research lab stuff (and there are ~2 companies that may or may not have something like that)
22:14 < prussian> maybe with puny qbit counts
22:14 < solidfox> phogg, area 51 theory?
22:14 < solidfox> candidat *
22:14 < candidat> yes ?
22:14 < solidfox> candidat, maybe they developed quantum computers at area 51
22:15 < candidat> solidfox i m sure they did
22:15 < sudo_halt> Maybe aliens gave them quantum computers in Area 51
22:15 < solidfox> "sure"?
22:15 < sudo_halt> You'll never know
22:15 < solidfox> how can you be sure? lol
22:15 < solidfox> sure is a strong word
22:15 < candidat> solidfox sudo_halt lol
22:15 < candidat> solidfox not really sure then :-)
22:15 < solidfox> :P
22:15 < candidat> i believe they did
22:16 < sudo_halt> Candidat is probably from Area 51
22:16 < solidfox> jeffree, how's it coming
22:16 < solidfox> jeffree, I've gotta go soon
22:16 < sudo_halt> How can he be so sure???
22:16 < candidat> heheh
22:16 < candidat> the army have 10 years in advance of civilian compagnies
22:16 < sukil> Hi, how do I scroll (without a mouse) in a terminal window?
22:17 < jml2> sukil, if the mouse wheel is not supported, pg-up/pg-down sometimes can do
22:17 < Sitri> sukil: Shift+PageUp
22:17 < hiya> Is Ryzen 5 2500U usable without non-free binary blobs?
22:17 < sudo_halt> [psst guys, can we still scroll in terminal with hjkl]?
22:17 < solidfox> sukil, page up and down buttons
22:17 < bls> sukil: you can't depending on your terminal in which case you'd need to use a program to accomplish that
22:17 < jml2> sukil, sometimes you need to have a setting with history to scroll
22:17 < jeffree> solidfox: not sure
22:17 < jeffree> solidfox: defnitely slower than host os
22:18 < jml2> sukil, ( HISTSIZE=1000 )
22:18 < sudo_halt> hiya, If you keep to latest kernel yeah
22:18 < xx2> when I doubleclick a movie vlc gives error when I drag and drop on vlc it works why
22:18 < xx2> linux mint
22:18 < sukil> Thanks, I'll investigate
22:18 < sudo_halt> xx2, dont you think that is a question for VLC support?
22:18 < solidfox> wow its friday
22:18 < sukil> (I mean scroll the actual output, not my commands)
22:18 < phogg> sukil: It depends on your terminal. For xterm and similar shift+pageup is correct. The general purpose answer is that you can run tmux and it supports scrolling (man tmux for usage).
22:18 < hiya> sudo_halt, Thanks, I might buy a laptop with it. Or should I wait Ryzen 7 2700U?
22:18 < candidat> i saw the aliens
22:18 < xx2> sudo_halt: they dont answer
22:19 < jml2> xx2, could be that your launcher is looking for feedback -- you can try to disable DE feedback in the .desktop file
22:19 < sudo_halt> sukil, (command) | less
22:19 < solidfox> jeffree, good luck. plenty of sane ppl in here. maybe they can help
22:19 < solidfox> jeffree, ;) cya
22:19 < xx2> jml2: what is DE ?
22:19 < sudo_halt> Desktop Environment.
22:19 < sudo_halt> I.e. Cinnamon
22:19 < jml2> xx2, perhaps there's a feedback notification you can disable with it,
22:20 < xx2> sudo_halt: ok so what do I do exactly
22:20 < jml2> xx2, i think that may sometimes get in the way
22:20 < xx2> jml2: Im noob
22:20 < jml2> xx2, I'd see if there's anything vlc stuck in the background
22:20 < jml2> xx2, killall vlc
22:20 < sudo_halt> hiya, AMD are really good with open-source efforts. You can pick any ryzen and it'll work with latest kernel
22:20 < sukil> How can I know which terminal I'm using? I know the Shell is BAsh (sorry for the stupid question, I'm a newbie coming from Windows)
22:20 < hiya> sudo_halt, Ok thanks Sir
22:20 < jml2> xx2, then try to launch vlc again normally (wait for kill to finish after 10 seconds)
22:20 < bls> xx2: you'll need to figure out which file manager you're using and ask its support channel how to configure the open-with-on-double-click program
22:20 < ayecee> sukil: echo $TERM
22:20 < xx2> jml2: no process found
22:21 < candidat> sudo_halt also does AMD have special features for Virtual machines ?
22:21 < sudo_halt> sukil, the shell isnt neccessarily BASH (bourne Again Shell)
22:21 < xx2> It happens every day
22:21 < sudo_halt> sukil, echo $SHELL
22:21 < sudo_halt> sukil, there are Zsh, KSH, BASH, FISH as the major shells. BASH is the most popular.
22:22 < hiya> sudo_halt, do you know what I mean ? I want to use with Libre OS like PureOS, debian witout any non-free repos? Like Intel HD graphics work. Is ryzen supported like that too?
22:22 < sukil> sudo_halt: in my case I know it is, I'm on an just-installed Arch
22:22 < uplime> sudo_halt: citation needed
22:22 < bls> hiya: why don't you just install debian and not enable the non-free repos?
22:22 < xx2> jml2: no vlc running still same thing
22:22 < xx2> it says Codec not supported:
22:22 < xx2> VLC could not decode the format "h264" (H264 - MPEG-4 AVC (part 10))
22:22 < hiya> bls, nope :(
22:22 < sudo_halt> candidat, Yes, AMD has a lot of virtualization stuff on normal CPUs with some extra cool stuff in EPYC server proccessors.
22:22 < xx2> but works when dragged and dropped
22:23 < oleo> sounds like a bug in vlc
22:23 < bls> freedom via arbitrary restrictions!
22:23 < sudo_halt> hiya, AMD works witouth non-free blobs.
22:23 < hiya> sudo_halt, Is it as good support as Intel when it comes to libre graphics drivers?
22:23 < hiya> Thanks!
22:24 < hiya> Sorry for repeating, just want to be sure
22:24 < xx2> bls: mint support channel doesnt answer
22:24 < bls> xx2: on this network or the official one?
22:24 < sudo_halt> hiya, AMD has its drivers open source. AMD RadeonSI, AMDGPU are open source.
22:24 < sudo_halt> AMDGpu-PRO is for workstation stuff and has a binary blob in user-space
22:25 < sudo_halt> uplime, Source: long-time AMD user
22:25 < xx2> bls: here linuxmint-help
22:25 < uplime> thats not a very good source
22:25 < hiya> sudo_halt, is AMD ryzen 7 2700U laptop, good to go then?
22:25 < uplime> b 16
22:25 < bls> xx2: ah, their official support channel is on a different network
22:26 < sudo_halt> hiya, Probably. I mean that chip is new and you'll have to wait some time for MESA and kernel to catch up.
22:26 < xx2> bls: this is default network and preinstalled support channel
22:26 < sudo_halt> hiya, Debian isnt an OS you'd choose for that kind of latest H/W
22:27 < bls> unless you used a debian variant that used the latest kernels+drivers
22:28 < hiya> sudo_halt, hence PureOS which is Debian Testing with main repo only
22:29 < sudo_halt> you should be good to go.
22:30 < fendur> Does anyone else wish debian was pronounced dee-bee-an?
22:30 < sudo_halt> not me
22:31 < bls> when was the last time you uttered the word out loud? :P
22:31 < ayecee> be the change you want in the world
22:31 < djph> fendur: no. now go back to whine-duhs
22:31 < sudo_halt> Right about now
22:31 < fendur> djph: what's that?
22:31 < sudo_halt> Windblows through Windows
22:31 < djph> ^
22:31 < bls> djph: we prefer wheenders
22:32 < fendur> wtf?
22:32 < djph> bls: noted.
22:34 < fendur> I think I'll adapt. But somehow I got that in my head years ago.
22:34 < bls> emphasis on the stewie aspiration
22:35 < sudo_halt> i gtg for now! o/ have a penguin day!
22:35 < fendur> hwhat?
22:36 < djph> "Deb-Ian" got misconstrued by your brain as "Dee-Bee-an"?
22:37 < fendur> djph: no. Debian, did.
22:37 < fendur> I don't know where that comma came from, btw.
22:38 < fendur> Think "demon"
22:38 < fendur> That's how. Don't ask me why.
22:39 < djph> fendur: err, "debian" is the two names "Deb" and "Ian"
22:39 < djph> Daemon?
22:39 < fendur> djph: yes I know that now. But I did not when I saw "Debian"
22:39 < fendur> djph: no, demon. Like ghosts from hell.
22:39 < fendur> somehow freebsd is related.
22:39 < djph> I mean, I didn't know it the first time I saw it either, but about 10 minutes of searching the fine web
22:40 < djph> fendur: exactly, daemon.  (more correctly, that Ae character that I can't type ever)
22:40 < fendur> djph: I didn't search the web for any minutes after I saw "Debian."
22:40 < fendur> I just made a guess at how it was pronounced. I was wrong. Sue me.
22:41 < djph> *sigh* kids these days, they even have a verb for "searching the web"
22:41 < Pritchard> Have a kind of crazy problem... If I run this in my ssh shell: echo $(docker exec -it couchbase-server bash -c 'echo $(ls /backups -t | head -n1)') I get a filename that's the last backup I've performed. When that runs out of crontab, however, the result is an empty string. Like the inner echo isn't output to where the crontab context can see it???
22:41 < fendur> somehow I think I'm older than you.
22:41 < djph> could be, idk.
22:42 < bls> Pritchard: cron isn't a shell and you can't use shell syntax in it
22:42 < Pritchard> @bls: This is a script that a cronjob executes...
22:42 < Pritchard> The script isn't failing to execute. That command is just coming up empty.
22:42 < uplime> thats a pretty bad script
22:42 < uplime> useless echos, and parsing ls
22:43 < bls> Pritchard: also, cron runs in an empty environment, so if any of those commands depend on environment variables (espeically PATH) they're going to break
22:43 < Pritchard> PATH has been set in the crontab file.
22:43 < Pritchard> uplime: The echos aren't useless?
22:43 < Pritchard> Yes, I get that parsing ls is "bad" but I have no idea what else I can do at this point.
22:44 < Pritchard> I'm not trying to create a perfect, reusable script. I just need something that works. This is literally the only script we need to run regularly on our server...
22:44 < bls> so you've set one environment variable. my guess is docker or couchdb have others they depend on
22:45 < Pritchard> Wait, what environment variable are you seeing?
22:45 < Pritchard> Oh.
22:45 < Pritchard> Oh you mean that I've set PATH.
22:46 < Pritchard> Dude I'm pretty sure these commands are executing just fine within the context of the crontab.
22:46 < Pritchard> I've been testing this all day. The problem I am having - and I hope someone can address it - is why that echo is turning up empty.
22:47 < Pritchard> So I get the full script execution, backup create, etc. etc. just the backup file name is coming up blank and that's messing with my alerts.
22:47 < Pritchard> backup created*
22:47 < uplime> Pritchard: yes they are
22:47 < uplime> echo $(foo) is pointless
22:47 < uplime> might as well just do foo
22:48 < Pritchard> uplime: Not true...
22:48 < bls> and what is: `couchbase-server bash -c` supposed to do?
22:48 < uplime> Pritchard: it is true
22:48 < Pritchard> echo without the $() just prints the entire command.
22:48 < Pritchard> Dude I literally just ran this?
22:48 < uplime> ...
22:48 < uplime> remove the echo and the $()
22:48 < uplime> i never said keep the echo, thats why I called it pointless
22:49 < Pritchard> One sec.
22:49 < Pritchard> uplime: That syntax is needed because I need to assign the result of execution to an environment variable or direct the output to a file.
22:50 < uplime> that doesn't change the fact that those echos are useless
22:50 < Pritchard> ex: LAST_BACKUP_FILE=$(docker exec -it couchbase-server bash -c 'echo $(ls /backups -t | head -n1)
22:50 < Pritchard> ok.
22:50 < bls> maybe you'd have better luck with shellcheck.net or ##bash then if you can only share incomplete snippets of this
22:51 < uplime> that should just be bash -c 'ls /backups -t | head -1'
22:51 < uplime> although parsing ls is bad too
22:51 < uplime> bls: you mean #bash?
22:51 < Pritchard> Can't be helped...
22:51 < uplime> yes it can
22:51 < Pritchard> Okay, what's an alternative?
22:51 < uplime> there are several
22:51 < Pritchard> And why is it bad?
22:51 < uplime> /msg greybot !ls
22:51 < bls> uplime: maybe, can never remember the stupid conventions
23:39 < mawk> y'all dead
23:39 < fendur> o/
23:44 < mawk> what would be the use for a C/C++ monitoring lib ? (monitoring network events, process events, routing events, SELinux events, kobject uevents, audit events, etc.)
23:44 < bls> I'd say a single C/C++ library for doing all of that was overstepping its reach
23:48 < mawk> they're all events from one source, a netlink socket
23:50 < mant1s> mawk: sounds like situational awareness - netops, secops, access mgmt, and a variety of other uses
23:51 < bls> so it's more a library for generating a stream of those events from a single source? that seems more constrained, concise, and reasonable
23:52 < mawk> yes
23:53 < aaro> mawk: what's a "netlink socket"? i know socket programming but never heard the netlink part
23:53 < mawk> it's a kind of socket you use to communicate between kernel and userspace
23:53 < mawk> or between userspace and userspace if you're masoschistic
23:54 < bls> because I could see something being built on top of such a library to do the monitoring. wouldn't want the reading and event generation to be coupled with the "monitoring"
23:54 < mawk> ah, yes indeed
23:54 < mawk> the lib would be only the event generation part
23:55 < mawk> aaro: the regular socket aspect is exploited in netlink: you can subscribe to multicast groups to get a stream of events
23:55 < mawk> also you can send and receive messages, which are used to set or get some aspects of the system
23:55 < bls> so low level event stream, higher level interface for event stream classification/filtering/aggregation, and then maybe something to interpret/respond to that layer
23:55 < mawk> for instance the routing table
23:56 < aaro> mawk: hmm interesting, i've only worked with network sockets
23:58 < mawk> if you want to query the routing table you need to use a netlink socket; for instance if you want to know what is the "primary" ip address of your system
23:59 < Two_Dogs> why would ipad not resolve dns from dnsmasq enabled with dnssec?
23:59 < bls> Two_Dogs: that's a question for Apple
--- Log closed Sat May 12 00:00:16 2018