--- Log opened Sun May 13 00:00:18 2018
00:00 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, Level3 is showing pretty dang fast.
00:00 < mawk> the ipv6 for 9.9.9.10 is 2620:fe::10
00:01 < Psi-Jack> And unfiltered.
00:01 < rascul> yeah i dunno if there's a better option than l3 except running my own and i don't really feel like doing that
00:02 < Psi-Jack> Heh
00:02 < rascul> i don't care one bit about dnssec, so if i'm not getting addresses because of that, 9.9.9.10 is out
00:02 < Psi-Jack> NTT Communications America is also proving to be very fast, for me,
00:04 < TaZeR> hey how would i tell the os to send the shutdown signal of input of any kind is detected for a long lenght of time like 2 days?
00:05 < Psi-Jack> Level 3 does report back bogus on NXDOMAIN, but... Easily fixed.
00:05 < TaZeR> if no input of any kind is detected*
00:05 < mawk> socat TCP4-LISTEN:53,reuseport,fork OPENSSL:dns.quad9.net:853
00:05 < TaZeR> cause that means im either in jail or dead and i want my disk fully encrypted
00:05 < mawk> why don't you encrypt it from the beggining TaZeR ?
00:06 < TaZeR> it is encrypted but i leave it open at home all the time so i want it to detect when im gone and shut down the computer
00:07 < Dan39> TaZeR: systemd?
00:07 < TaZeR> rings a bell
00:07 < TaZeR> oh yea i have it
00:07 < Psi-Jack> rascul: I just ran a quick tool, which is made for Windows, but completely runnable under wine, and got a quick benchmark of various public DNS providers to find the fastest ones that work /for me/.
00:08 < [R]> TaZeR: input-event-daemon can do taht
00:09 < TaZeR> is that in the repos?
00:09 < TaZeR> oh sorry
00:09 < TaZeR> thought i was in my distro channel for a sec, im using archlinux
00:09 < rascul> Psi-Jack a little old but it's what i generally use https://code.google.com/archive/p/namebench/
00:09 < rascul> 8 years old apparently heh
00:10 < Psi-Jack> Heh
00:10 < Psi-Jack> rascul: Yeah, I used SGGRC's DNS Benchmark, which has a lot of precanned ones in, including recent additions of Cloudflare and Quad9. :)
00:12 < Psi-Jack> Re-running it again with my L3 DNS changes done, and I'm actually matching up, where-as before I was getting pretty miserable speeds, (and THAT was with google dns)
00:13 < rascul> Psi-Jack umm i think i'm about to check 4000+ nameservers heh
00:13 < Psi-Jack> heh
00:15 < Psi-Jack> tds: And no, to your earlier question. Because I got the site regardless. DNS servers that filter the result and report back bogus information that's not actually correct, that's filtering.
00:16 < tds> oh yeah, if something's returning bogus A/AAAA records for their own servers when they should be returning nxdomain, that's certainly not right
00:16 < tds> but returning servfail when dnssec checks fail seems perfectly sane to me
00:17 < Psi-Jack> Replying SERVFAIL because of DNSSEC validation errors is also too, still, filtering, because I could've chosen to honor DNSSEC or not myself had they not filtered it.
00:19 < mawk> it's meant to prevent man-in-the-middle attacks
00:19 < Psi-Jack> I don't care what it's meant for.
00:19 < mawk> chrome lets you pass through self-signed certificates, it won't let you pass through what it views as attacks
00:19 < Psi-Jack> DNSSEC is a failure.
00:19 < mawk> lol
00:20 < tds> if the owner has specifically required that their domain has SSL (eg with hsts), which I'd say is equivalentish in this comparison to adding DS records in the parent zone, afaik chrome won't let you bypass that
00:20 < [R]> mawk: yeah... but what about monkey in the middle attacks?
00:20 < Psi-Jack> There we go. NTT Communications America is my primary DNS, Level3 is secondary. :)
00:21 < Psi-Jack> tds: Chrome will. :)
00:21 < Psi-Jack> Will let you bypass that, that is.
00:21 < Psi-Jack> They don't make it easy, but yes you sure can.
00:21 < rascul> you can get around hsts
00:22 < jml2> Hey guys.. I also get SERVFAIL for linux-help.org ...
00:22 < jml2> joking hahahaha
00:22 < jml2> LAWL
00:22 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, that would be funny. But untrue. :)
00:22 < jml2> :p
00:22 < Psi-Jack> Only if you're in Russia.
00:22 < Psi-Jack> heh heh
00:22 < mawk> how rascul ?
00:25 < Psi-Jack> First of all, HSTS is nothing more than just a server reply header in HTTP, of which a browser can honor or not.
00:25 < Psi-Jack> That's all HSTS is.
00:25 < stevendale> Morning Psi-Jack
00:25 < stevendale> 14 hours of sleep
00:26 < revel> Psi-Jack: Is wget a browser? :D
00:26 < stevendale> 12:00 PM - 4:00 PM, 10:00 PM - 8:00 AM
00:26 < rascul> mawk i don't remember how, there was a trick to get firefox to ignore it somehow
00:26 < tds> Psi-Jack: ah sorry, I thought badidea/thisunsafe was disabled in chrome for hsts errors, didn't realise they just remove the button
00:27 < Psi-Jack> Like I said, they don't make it easy to disable it, but you certainly can.
00:27 < rorro> When I was using Ubuntu, my terminal autocompleted correctly. When I typed cd in a folder that only had one folder, it autocompleted that folder. Now I am running manjaro and it's not longer doing that.
00:27 < rorro> Is there somehow I can get it to do that?
00:27 < rorro> I'm using xfce4-terminal
00:28 < rascul> rorro what shell are you using?
00:28 < Psi-Jack> xfce4-terminal has nothing to do with bash's tab autocompletion.
00:28 < jml2> rorro, you can set the tab-completion for bash with shopt iirc
00:28 < rascul> Psi-Jack well it does, in the sense that it has to pass the tab presses through ;)
00:28 < Psi-Jack> heh
00:28 < rorro> Is it something I can add to my .inputrc?
00:28 < Psi-Jack> Well, xfce4-terminal does that part just fine. Just doesn't do proper truecolor support. :)
00:28 < Psi-Jack> rorro: No.
00:29 < rascul> rorro are you even using bash? 'echo $SHELL'
00:30 < [R]> man, i knew manjaro was pretty busted
00:30 < [R]> but... come on
00:30 < [R]> haha
00:30 < rorro> Yeah, I am.
00:30 < [R]> basic tab completion not working!?
00:30 < mawk> apt install bash-completion
00:30 < rascul> [R] well it's based on arch, what do you expect?
00:30 < mawk> or equivalent
00:30 < [R]> BAZINGA
00:30 < [R]> you dont need bash-completion
00:30 < [R]> to get cd tab completion working
00:30 < Psi-Jack> I have no issues with Arch. ;)
00:30 < rascul> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Bash#Tab_completion
00:30 < mawk> yeah maybe not
00:31 < rascul> i don't know why cd completion wouldn't be working though
00:31 < rascul> maybe a pebkac?
00:32 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. That's unusual...
00:32 < rorro> Says it should be enabled by default?
00:32 < rascul> yeah it should be
00:32 < Psi-Jack> Manjaro is not Arch.
00:32 < rorro> I mean, my issue here is not that it does not autocomplete on tab. It's that for 'cd' it does not autocomplete correctly.
00:33 < rorro> It's not smart enough.
00:33 < rascul> Psi-Jack true, but i suspect most of the stuff on the arch wiki still applies
00:33 < rorro> It just shows everything in the folder instead of showing the folders within the folder.
00:33 < CannedSpinach> what do yall think of Deepin?
00:33 < CannedSpinach> inb4 spyware
00:33 < stevendale> ReactOS
00:33 < rascul> rorro is there more than one item it's showing when you try to tab complete it?
00:33 < revel> Spyware.
00:33 < [R]> CannedSpinach: super terrific CHINESE spyware...
00:33 < Psi-Jack> rorro: That sounds like Manjaro decided to enable some stupid option for bash...
00:34 < rorro> rascul, yeah. Let me set up an example and post here
00:34 < stevendale> ReactOS is superior to all distros except Debian
00:34 < stevendale> Debian is king
00:34 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: So today... After hibernation, you've decided to come troll?
00:35 < rascul> i like debian best when i'm not using it
00:35 < rorro> Here. https://i.imgur.com/ZeSU58i.png
00:35 < Psi-Jack> And?
00:35 < rascul> that does indeed look like some weird bash option
00:35 < rorro> In here it should autocomplete to test/folder/ instead of gicing me all the options
00:35 < rascul> oh wait, no it doesn't
00:36 < rorro> since folder_not is not a folder
00:36 < stevendale> Psi-Jack It takes one to know one ;)
00:36 < rascul> hrm
00:36 < Psi-Jack> stevendale: Pardon?
00:37 < catalase> anyone know of a similar package to rcconf in ubuntu 18.04
00:37 < catalase> or how to get the rcconf from 16.04 to 18.04
00:37 < rascul> rorro try #bash
00:37 < rascul> catalase what is rcconf?
00:39 < revel> Psi-Jack: That's what the Australians do.
00:39 < rorro> I found the solution. Was simple and now I feel dumb. I just needed to add 'complete -d cd' to my bashrc.
00:39 < rorro> But thanks for the help rascul
00:39 < [R]> lol
00:40 < oxenfree> howdy folks
00:40 < rascul> does manjaro explicitly turn that off or something? i had thought cd directory completion was default in bash
00:40 < oxenfree> when using cryptsetup, is it normal for aes-xts-plain64 to take a few hours?
00:40 < Psi-Jack> rascul: I'd say so.
00:40 < Psi-Jack> rascul: That's not "normal" in arch.
00:40 < oxenfree> when i tried using serpent-xts-plain64, it took maybe a minute
00:41 < rorro> I have no idea. I've never had to add this before. I guess manjaro does something bad.
00:42 < Psi-Jack> Stupidly bad.
00:42 < Psi-Jack> Common thing in Manjaro I noticed.
00:42 < [R]> well, its based on arch
00:42 < [R]> BAZINGA
00:43 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, but as I said, this doesn't happen in Arch.
00:43 < Psi-Jack> The fault is all on Manjaro themselves.
00:43 < rascul> looks like opensuse has the cd completion thing in /etc/profile.d/complete.bash
00:44 < rascul> but that doesn't enable it because it's enabled when that file is missing...
00:50 < Psi-Jack> Well, now that I've pretty solidly revamped my salt knowledge to what it used to be before, now I get to learn new things. formulas. :)
00:58 < Aph3x-WL> manjaro lol
01:03 < rorro> Why you not like Arch?
01:03 < rorro> Is gentoo the way to go?
01:03 < Psi-Jack> "the way to go?"
01:04 < revel> rorro: They're talking about Manjaro, not Arch, aren't they?
01:04 < Psi-Jack> ^
01:05 < rorro> Oh, yeah. I guess.
01:05 < Psi-Jack> Manjaro is /not/ Arch. Not even associated.
01:05 < rorro> The only reason I run manjaro is because my laptop is stupid and gives me a white screen when i try to install Arch
01:05 < rorro> And it's close enough to Arch.
01:05 < Psi-Jack> That simply means: You're too newbie to use Arch.
01:05 < sauvin> I thought manjaro was derived from arch.
01:06 < rorro> Lmao. Nope. I wish that was true so that I wouldn't rage at my computer.
01:06 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: FOrked, more or less.
01:06 < rorro> I have a server computer running arch.
01:06 < Psi-Jack> With a much smaller less knowledgable set of people.
01:06 < Psi-Jack> rorro: That's... Just silly. :)
01:06 < rorro> Arch is great for servers
01:07 < Psi-Jack> Rolling release is /not/ great for servers.
01:07 < revel> Psi-Jack: I don't know, I've seen lots of people jump from Windows to Arch... Or, well, in lots of cases, not jump, but dualboot.
01:08 < sauvin> Servers need to be stable. Rolling release distros are by definition moving targets.
01:10 < Psi-Jack> There was /something/ someone in #archlinux told me once about package snapshotting that might make it feasible, but the details I have yet to look into.
01:12 < sauvin> Let's just say I have doubts.
01:17 < Aph3x-WL> lots of people run arch and gentoo on servers, the instability mostly comes from people doing dumb things, so if you know what you're doing it can be fine
01:17 < revel> There's people that run Arch on servers? wut?
01:18 < Aph3x-WL> there are quite a few
01:18 < revel> I know that my old primary school's home page runs on Gentoo, so there's definitely Gentoo servers out there.
01:19 < toothe> I want to specify a crontab to run as a specific user. It seems to be running as root by default (am I mistaken?)
01:19 < revel> X-Powered-By: PHP/5.6.18-pl0-gentoo
01:20 < revel> toothe: The task should be run as the user if you did it correctly, afaik, though the cron process spawning that cron task process may be root?
01:20 < toothe> odd...
01:20 < toothe> no, i jsut ran whoami in crontab
01:20 < toothe> whoami > /tmp/log
01:20 < Aph3x-WL> all of the computers in the lab at my school ran gentoo
01:20 < revel> Try just setting "id > /tmp/onargonerg" or something.
01:20 < toothe> it was myself, toothe.
01:20 < toothe> so...why is this rsync command failing...
01:21 < revel> Pipe the stdout and stderr of the rsync to some file in /tmp to check.
01:21 < toothe> got it! I'm so silly.
01:22 < revel> Hmm, wait... PHP 5.6.18 isn't even in the portage tree any more...
01:23 < toothe> okay, new question
01:23 < toothe> why is rsync reproducing the path?
01:24 < toothe> meaning, I'm asking to copy /home/toothe/ to /my/path
01:24 < revel> "reproducing the path"?
01:24 < toothe> its creating /my/path/home/toothe/
01:24 < toothe> I see that there's an -R flag, but maybe I"m using it wrong?
01:24 < revel> Dunno. Did you copy-paste some flag from somewhere that does that?
01:25 < toothe> yes, -avR
01:25 < revel> Since often, that seems to be a thing with people who are having problems with rsync :P
01:25 < toothe> err, I did it backwards -R is the flag I DO NOT want.
01:26 < revel> Instead of missing a flag, it's having a flag you don't want.
01:26 < toothe> exactly.
01:26 < toothe> silly me.
01:26 < toothe> yeah, I succeeded in destroying my computer the other day.
01:26 < toothe> so, I'm going to have some backup systems setup this time.
01:40 < jml2> toothe, your system is not good enough to run vbox?
01:41 < jml2> tsssssssssssssk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
01:41 < toothe> I don't get the joke?
01:41 < jml2> cp -xaP /home/user/.  /backup/mountpoint/
01:41 < toothe> yes, but I"m doing this over a network
01:41 < jml2> (log that user out first)
01:41 < toothe> and cp is redundant
01:41 < toothe> rsync isn't.
01:42 < jml2> cp is universal and found on any live linux :p
01:42 < jml2> rsync isn't :P
01:43 < saderror256> test
01:44 < saderror256> are you guys recieving my messaging, sorry im setting up my irc client and i wonder if im signed in
01:44 < djph> nope, can't see a thing saderror256
01:44 < saderror256> thanks
01:49 < catalase> can someone help me out here, i keep getting:  ERROR: ../libkmod/libkmod.c:586 kmod_search_moddep() could not open moddep file '/lib/modules/4.14.39-v7+/modules.dep.bin'
01:49 < catalase> when i put modprobe tun
01:49 < revel> Do you have /lib/modules/4.14.39-v7+ ?
01:50 < ayecee> run depmod -a to regenerate the dependencies file
01:50 < jml2> djph, lol
01:50 < catalase>  this is what i have /lib/modules/4.15.0-1010-raspi2/modules.dep.bin
01:50 < revel> Then reboot to get the new kernel running.
01:51 < catalase> i did reboot
01:51  * jml2 does the tae-kwon-boot
01:51 < revel> And uname reports the new kernel?
01:51 < catalase> Linux ubuntu 4.14.39-v7+ #1112 SMP Sat May 5 12:01:33 BST 2018 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux
01:52 < catalase> is it pointing to the wrong thing? idk what i am doing lol
01:52 < ayecee> catalase: run depmod -a to regenerate the dependencies file
01:52 < revel> I'd, uhh, try rebooting again? Since you seem to be running the wrong kernel.
01:52 < catalase> depmod: ERROR: could not open directory /lib/modules/4.14.39-v7+: No such file or directory
01:52 < catalase> returns that ayecee
01:52 < ayecee> does that directory exist?
01:52 < revel> ayecee: I'm pretty sure he updated the kernel on his pi and that removed the old modules.
01:53 < revel> He said it didn't before already.
01:53 < catalase> oooof, it was the only kernel i could get the pi to boot with
01:53 < catalase> it came from here: https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/boot
01:54 < catalase> kernel7.img	kernel: Bump to 4.14.39
01:54 < revel> Did you not copy over the modules?
01:55 < revel> https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/tree/master/modules/4.14.39-v7+
01:56 < toothe> anyone know how to make your terminal allow UTF-8 characters?
01:56 < toothe> (unicode)
01:56 < catalase> revel, i didn't
01:56 < catalase> how exactly do i do that
01:56 < Sveta> Over VGA in arandr I get maximum resolution 1024 x 768, but the monitor is designed for 1280 x 1024. How do I troubleshoot? This is Debian buster.
01:56 < revel> catalase: The same way you copied the kernel over, possibly. Or with git or wget.
01:56 < revel> Or curl, or whatever.
01:58 < revel> At least this was a great reminder for me to update my pi... Though that only seemed to update Bluetooth firmware and wget.
02:00 < catalase> revel
02:00 < catalase> modprobe: FATAL: Module tun not found in directory /lib/modules/4.14.39-v7+
02:00 < revel> ?
02:00 < catalase> but in the link u gave there is not mod tun
02:01 < catalase> in that directory
02:01 < Sveta> Over VGA in arandr I get maximum resolution 1024 x 768, but the monitor is designed for 1280 x 1024. How do I troubleshoot? This is Debian buster. -- Tried adding the resolution by hand, but I do not know how to tell it for which   monitor.    http://dpaste.com/1ZA2JB7.txt
02:01 < catalase> should there be?
02:02 < ayecee> Sveta: VGA-1 seems to be correct, but the mode isn't found
02:02 < ayecee> apparently xrandr without arguments will list the existing modes and the ones that can be added.
02:03 < revel> `modprobe tun` works for me, though I can't immediately find tun either.
02:03 < revel> Maybe it's some module.alias trickery.
02:04 < revel> catalase: Wait, it's right there in /lib/modules/4.14.34-v7+/kernel/drivers/net/tun.ko
02:05 < Sveta> ayecee: do you think there is a workaround to achieve a higher res? With this one, the pixels are blurry.
02:05 < revel> Or, well, .39 instead of .34 for you.
02:05 < ayecee> Sveta: what modes does xrandr list?
02:05 < Sveta> ayecee: how?
02:05 < ayecee> run xrandr without arguments
02:07 < Sveta> ayecee: http://dpaste.com/3N4XPNB.txt xrandr
02:08 < ayecee> i think you'd have to generate a modeline for the 1280x1024 and add it to xorg.conf. i don't know how to do that offhand.
02:08 < catalase> revel, this is really helpful info
02:08 < catalase> i just put the modules and rebooted
02:09 < ayecee> Sveta: apparently the program "cvt" can generate modelines.
02:09 < ayecee> then you can add them with xrandr --newmode
02:10 < Sveta> ayecee: http://dpaste.com/3DRXX0D.txt like this?
02:10 < ayecee> yes
02:11 < ayecee> i don't know how that goes into xrandr --newmode though
02:12 < Psi-Jack> Man.. I really hate docker for their default docker0 bridge settings, and how annoying they've made it to change it.
02:12 < Sveta> ayecee: http://arunviswanathan.com/node/53 appears to have an example, i'll find out in a min
02:13 < syb0rg>  If I have an encrypted root partition, is there any reason not to have my desktop environment automatically log me in?
02:14 < djph> because it'll auto log you in.
02:14 < pnbeast> You'd kind of have to answer that for yourself, syb0rg, wouldn't you?  Did you boot your computer in the morning then wander off to the coffee machine while your office partners try to figure out how to send links to donkey porn to your boss from you?
02:14 < syb0rg> lol djph, well yeah but that is convenient. What I'm asking is, is there a loss in security given that I have to enter a password to decrypt my root partition on boot
02:14 < Sveta> ayecee: it appears to work; thanks for your pointers
02:15 < syb0rg> pnbeast, but I can still lock the screen, requiring a password. And booting up requires a password as well for decryption
02:15 < ayecee> \o/
02:15 < ayecee> i learned something too :)
02:15 < syb0rg> sounds like an entertaining work environment though lol
02:16 < djph> pnbeast: that's the best work environment.  We always had to stop at "take a picture of the desktop, and hide everything
02:16 < syb0rg> pnbeast, unless it is easy to trick the computer into auto-logging in again somehow?
02:17 < syb0rg> pnbeast, I guess you mean do I walk away while it is booting? The answer to that would be no.
02:19 < catalase> revel, you're awesome
02:19 < catalase> thank you it works!!
02:19 < revel> Ye, no prob.
02:19 < Sveta> Btw, about docker- use #docker, they'd perhaps be able to direct you how to modify its default settings.
02:20  * jml2 says no #dicker for #docker
02:20 < shalok> When resuming from hibernate, the kernel spits out some progress messages like "Image loading progress: 100%" but then the screen goes black and nothing happens. It happens so quickly that I don't have time to read the messages. There is nothing in kern or system logs. I don't have any other computer that I connect via serial cable. How can I debug this issue?
02:21 < Two_Dogs> shalok: what kernel?
02:21 < revel> shalok: What does `cat /proc/cmdline` say?
02:21 < jml2> a lot of BLM takeover our image-loading these days...
02:21 < shalok> Two_Dogs: Linux u40b0340a58d459e93a03 4.13.0-39-generic #44~16.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Thu Apr 5 16:43:10 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
02:21 < syb0rg> shalok, as a ghetto but easy approach, take a video?
02:21 < jml2> "the screen goes black" XD
02:21 < shalok> revel: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-4.13.0-39-generic root=/dev/mapper/vg0--e02869-root ro
02:21 < revel> Oh, was expecting quiet or splash.
02:22 < shalok> revel: Yeah I disabled those already
02:22 < Two_Dogs> shalok: do you see grub on boot?
02:22 < dviola> shalok: try upgrading to the latest 4.16.8 and see if that fixes it?
02:22 < shalok> Two_Dogs: iirc I don't see it when I'm resuming.
02:22 < dviola> shalok: is this a regression? if so, git-bisect can help
02:23 < Two_Dogs> shalok: you would not see grub on resume, but you can revert to last good kernel
02:23 < dviola> shalok: what's your hw?
02:24 < Two_Dogs> shalok: can you get to tty2 while in blackscreen?
02:24 < shalok> dviola: I don't think it's a regression. This has been happening for sometime.
02:24 < shalok> Two_Dogs: No, if I try to switch consoles it remains black.
02:24 < dviola> shalok: what's the hw specs?
02:25 < Two_Dogs> shalok: could you ssh into broke?
02:25 < shalok> dviola: HP laptop, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6600U CPU @ 2.60GHz, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD, using volume encryption.
02:25 < dviola> shalok: are you using the intel iGPU?
02:26 < dviola> i915
02:26 < shalok> Two_Dogs: Unfortunately I don't have access to another computer I could ssh from right now.
02:26 < shalok> dviola: I see references to it in dmesg so I think I might be.
02:27 < Two_Dogs> shalok: you on broke now?
02:28 < shalok> dviola: output of lspci: https://pastebin.com/yWvttsun
02:28 < shalok> Two_Dogs: Yes.
02:28 < dviola> shalok: this is skylake right?
02:28 < shalok> dviola: yes
02:28 < dviola> and you are on ubuntu 16.04?
02:29 < shalok> dviola: 16.04.1
02:29 < Two_Dogs> shalok: share output of> journalctl --since=yesterday --pri=3 ## pastebin it if possible
02:29 < dviola> it sounds like a video driver issue, try upgrading your kernel to the latest one
02:29 < dviola> but you might want to upgrade everything to be sure
02:30 < dviola> X, mesa, kernel, etc
02:30 < dviola> maybe try ubuntu 18.04 and see if it can still be reproduced
02:30 < Two_Dogs> when 1915 blackscreens i would worry about the end of the world
02:31 < dviola> skylake is newer so there might be bits in the latest packages that can be good for your hardware
02:31 < dviola> that might explain why you have been seeing this issue with previous versions also
02:32 < shalok> Two_Dogs: journalctl --pri=3 log: https://pastebin.com/cRBKq9EU
02:32 < Two_Dogs> shalok: did you install install from ppa drivers associated with graphics?
02:33 < shalok> Two_Dogs: I don't think so.
02:34 < shalok> dviola: Looks like latest kernel I have in my repo is linux-image-4.15.0-15-generic. I'll try upgrading to that.
02:34 < dviola> ok
02:37 < dviola> let us know how it goes
02:38 < dviola> iirc
02:38 < dviola> 4.15 fixed a few issues on my broadwell machine but it wasn't suspend/resume, it was i915 related though
02:40 < dviola> and 4.16.8 fixed a few issues with my suspend/resume but on my dualcore machine, you can even see that on the changelog here: https://cdn.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.16.8
02:41 < dviola> c2908cac1b043a6cb8584185b2ca438908873870
02:41 < shalok> dviola: 4.15 was able to resume. Unfortunately graphics were really slow and my machine was unable to connect to the internet. The graphics/networking issues happened even without resume.
02:43 < dviola> shalok: I see, not sure about those
02:43 < dviola> :(
02:43 < dviola> shalok: I would try ubuntu 18.04 and see if those can still be reproduced
02:44 < dviola> do you have like a separe usb thumbdrive? you can try suspend/resume from the USB thumbdrive
02:44 < dviola> if it works, then you know it's fixed in one of the latest packages
02:45 < dviola> but it's not using unity
02:47 < dviola> shalok: what are the graphics/networking issues you're seeing right now?
02:48 < shalok> dviola: Right now I'm back on 4.13 so everything's fine. On 4.15 screen updates were very slow. It would take 1 second or so to redraw the xterm.
02:48 < shalok> dviola: And I didn't have any network connectivity.
02:50 < shalok> dviola: Upgrading to ubuntu 18 might cause trouble. In order to use my laptop at work I have to install some extra packages. They support Ubuntu 16 but not Ubuntu 18.
02:52 < dviola> shalok: I see
02:52 < dviola> shalok: any chance you can try suspend/resume from a live USB at least? if it works you might be able to cherry pick the fixes from ubuntu 18 to 16
02:52 < dviola> at least you would know if it works or not
02:53 < dviola> I mean, do not install, just test from USB
02:53 < dviola> if that works I would try upgrading mesa, X and so on
02:54 < dviola> makes sense?
02:55 < shalok> dviola: So if it works on 18, I can try to backport the packages to 16?
02:55 < dviola> iirc, I had ubuntu 16 on a machine but upgraded it to the latest one because of some compiz bugs
02:56 < dviola> I was experiencing crashes with compiz on i915
02:56 < dviola> I decided it wasn't worth to debug compiz since unity is dead and moved it to the gnome version
02:57 < dviola> I never experienced issues again
02:58 < dviola> shalok: I think so, maybe there's a repo you can use that has newer mesa, kernel, etc?
02:58 < dviola> but I'm not sure about that
03:02 < jml2> dviola, I could be an issue :P
03:02 < dviola> shalok: keep in mind that if you upgrade to ubuntu 18 you can use a container to host the application that only works on 16
03:03 < dviola> that should be a non-issue
03:03 < dviola> jml2: hah, how? :P
03:04 < jml2> dviola, I remember
03:04 < jml2> dviola, it may have been you who said funny things about Mr Torvalds and Tesla.. hmm I remember
03:04 < jml2> dviola, indeed
03:05 < dviola> jml2: could be, yeah
03:05 < dviola> about his TED talk I think
03:05 < jml2> yeah you're the douche
03:05 < jml2> LOL
03:05  * jml2 hides XD
03:05 < dviola> I am not that :P
03:06 < dviola> shalok: anyway, what app is this that needs to work with 16?
03:06 < jml2> currently working on my power wordpress things -- a few great power plugins is all I need
03:07 < dviola> jml2: I did not understood why Torvalds said that about Edison/Tesla, but I understand his arguments now
03:07 < dviola> I'm not a Tesla fan or anything :P
03:07 < jml2> edison didn't like tesla.. in fact he was jealous of him-- he was far more intelligent than him
03:08 < shalok> I'm not really sure. Things like sync my account using ldap, checks for security vulnerabilities, configures various company settings like apt repos, custom TLS certs.
03:08 < dviola> shalok: oh, not sure if a container can work then
03:08 < dviola> sorry, I'm out of ideas
03:12 < dviola> jml2: Torvalds argument is based on that Edison was a hard working person, even despite not being as brilliant as Tesla
03:14 < jml2> oh this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13658615
03:15 < jml2> yeah that makes sense ... a lot of people get it, because Tesla imgo cared more about effective mathematics to engineering --- he didn't like it when he proved to Edison that AC was more efficient than DC (he showed math and Edison was too dumb!)
03:16 < jml2> Torvalds inspired people to join his linux project, but he's talking humbly that a lot of the work was done by others
03:17 < jml2> today, everybody uses AC, despite so much effort by Edison to rather have DC instead...
03:17 < Psi-Jack> Pah.. AC? Naw man. I use wireless tesla power foo!
03:18 < jml2> wireless power is possible, but nobody has perfected it yet...
03:18 < jml2> we only know how to jam devices XD
03:20 < dviola> lol
03:23 < jml2> dviola, now Newton vs Liebniz!!
03:23 < dviola> haha
03:24 < jml2> harps vs pianos!
03:24 < jml2> dvorak vs qwerty! may the wars continue!!
03:25 < jml2> pianos for men, harps for woman
03:25 < dviola> vim vs emacs, anyone?
03:27 < jml2> vimacs!
03:27 < dviola> jk jk :P
03:27 < nai> em.
03:28 < Sveta> ayecee: i'd like xrandr settings to persist after reboot, for all users.. as i understand the addition of a new mode to xrandr was for one user only, i don't recall prefixing it with 'sudo' ?
03:29 < dviola> shalok: let us know if you get to solve your issues, I would still recommend trying the latest ubuntu even if you can't use it, you'd still know if it's fixed in a later version
03:30 < shalok> dviola: I don't have a USB drive on me right now. I'm trying to install newer kernels from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
03:30 < dviola> shalok: ok, I see
03:31 < stevendale> Hi
03:31 < stevendale> Will i notice a speed improvement on my Parallel ATA HDD by enabling noatime?
03:31 < pnbeast> stevendale, it's really hard to say what you'll notice.
03:32 < stevendale> The drive peaks at 33 MB/s
03:32  * sauvin notices it's time for more hooch
03:32 < dviola> shalok: if you have grub2 installed you can boot the ISO from grub2 using loopback booting
03:32 < sauvin> I believe the noatime setting would affect write speeds, but not read speeds.
03:32 < sauvin> I should say "rates" rather than speeds, I think.
03:33 < dviola> shalok: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/ISOBoot/Examples
03:33 < popnfloss> i updated to gnome 3.28.2, in which the memory leak is supposedly "fixed"
03:33 < pnbeast> stevendale, the answer to every absurd question like that is "you'll have to test it".  How do we know what your usage is?  What your specific mobo/bus/drive support?  How attentive you really are?
03:33 < popnfloss> and of course its not
03:33 < popnfloss> what they did was set the garbage collector to activate every single time any object is deleted
03:33 < popnfloss> so instead of it eating up memory, it eats up cpu
03:34 < popnfloss> are these people retarded or what
03:34 < popnfloss> and its still slowing down and has to be restarted every hour or so
03:35  * pnbeast secretly suspects popnfloss couldn't point to "the garbage collector" if it rolled down the street in an elephant-towed chariot with a gas-powered steam horn on it.
03:35 < sauvin> Prepare for a barrage of the kinds of foul language that can rust stainless steel, make pit bulls pee themselves and unclog even the most stubbornly clogged drain. I'm about to try to install arch linux into a VM.
03:36 < GunqqerFriithian> When ever I run `sensors` from lm-sensors any audio that is playing gets disrupted. I think this is because it's probing my audio chip but I cannot figure out which thing is is nor how to disable it being poked. Paste of `sensors` output: https://paste.linux.community/view/9f8afd03
03:36 < sauvin> Yea, though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil because... well... I've got the foulest mouth in all of creation.
03:39 < dviola> shalok: upgrade mesa also
03:39 < Sveta> perhaps archlinux was the first distribution that I ran in a vm
03:39 < Sveta> the second one being opensuse
03:39 < Sveta> both lasted for a few minutes...
03:40 < jml2> GunqqerFriithian, you can set a setting for what chips to probe with sensors.con
03:40 < jml2> GunqqerFriithian, .conf
03:40 < jml2> GunqqerFriithian, (manpage)
03:41 < GunqqerFriithian> how would I figure out which name refers to my audio chip?
03:42 < jml2> GunqqerFriithian, if i'm wrong on that, pretty sure you can just blacklist a module that is not valuable for it
03:42 < pnbeast> GunqqerFriithian, I have almost no idea, but if I didn't want to look in the source or in docs, I'd probably grep for things in dmesg output, first.
03:43 < GunqqerFriithian> so in the manpage it says I can use `ignore` in the conf file to ignore one, so time to find the audio chip's name
03:48 < jml2> GunqqerFriithian, probably that doesn't do anything -- simply inferred to check the manpage, the easier resort of course (if its not harmful) is to disable a driver that is causing the issue
03:48 < jml2> GunqqerFriithian, (and that you're not using)
04:01 < sauvin> Wow. Arch sure is taking a while.
04:01 < Psi-Jack> To do what?
04:01 < sauvin> To install.
04:05 < Psi-Jack> Actual Arch, not a wrapper like Antergos? ;)
04:09 < dviola> so it turns out shalok issue is a problem with hibernate, not with suspend/resume itself, he said it works with suspend to ram just fine
04:10 < dviola> hibernate requires some setup, like passing a kernel parameter to the swap partition, iirc
04:10 < dviola> I can't remember
04:12 < dviola> I haven't used hibernate in years
04:13 < dviola> shalok: so it doesn't sound like you have a kernel issue
04:14 < dviola> hibernate and suspending to ram should be practically the same ACPI wise?
04:21 < stevendale> Hey
04:22 < stevendale> Was fluxbox written from scratch as well, just like openbox, since they were both based on blackbox?
04:24 < madan> hey guys , How to disable password complexity in centos 6
04:25 < Psi-Jack> madan: Why would you want to?
04:25 < jml2> i think all of them came from fvwm2
04:25 < madan> i need a short password
04:26 < madan> to be allowed when new user creation
04:26 < jml2> madan, type pwgen
04:26 < madan> ok
04:26 < jml2> madan, and choose your password
04:27 < jml2> madan, then copy and paste the password
04:27 < jml2> madan, into the passwd prompt
04:27 < madan> ok thanks
04:27 < jml2> madan, hit enter, and then do it again chubby
04:27 < jml2> LOL
04:27 < madan> ok
04:28 < jml2> madan, a standard password?  huh I don't think that's possible
04:28 < jml2> but you can script that pwgen generator and just use 1 result for each new user created
04:28 < madan> i need a change the password policy
04:28 < madan> cat /etc/pam.d/passwd
04:29 < madan> it's allow minmum length = 4
04:31 < pnbeast> madan, so far the best answer I've seen is Psi-Jack's answer.  Why do you want to?
04:32 < jml2> there's an idiot on youtube telling people how to make passwordless everywhere- sudo, logins, everything.  what a douche..
04:32 < pnbeast> jml2, really?  An idiot on youtube?  I thought that wasn't allowed.
04:33 < jml2> pnbeast, nah I think madan is trending to that idiocy XD
04:33 < jml2> he seemingly wants to make his password shorter than 4 characters XD
04:33 < pnbeast> jml2, well, he at last stopped himself by asking questions here, instead of babbling senselessly.
04:33 < madan> i need a create some test users on my VM
04:34 < jml2> so test1's password is test1 ... test2 user is password test2...
04:34 < jml2> really not that hard
04:34 < jml2> lol
04:35  * jml2 pwgen -s -1  
04:35 < Psi-Jack> madan: And?
04:35 < madan> BAD PASSWORD: it is based on a dictionary word
04:35 < madan> Retype new password:
04:35 < Psi-Jack> And?
04:35 < jml2> tehehe
04:35 < Stuiterbal> Assword123
04:35 < Psi-Jack> Is this for SSH? If so... Just use SSH keys.
04:35 < Stuiterbal> Just leave out the p
04:38 < pnbeast> madan, do you refuse to answer the question, or do you not understand the question?  Why...
04:38 < Psi-Jack> And also, there are simply better ways to do things sometimes. This is one of them.
04:40 < madan> i need to change the password policy as per need , if you tell me how to do that , dont ask me why you want to do that
04:41 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, yea, actual Arch. It's taking calendar time!
04:41 < pnbeast> madan, good luck!
04:41 < ayecee> madan: if you're determined not to answer that, it would be better not to respond to that at all.
04:41 < Psi-Jack> madan: There are definitely better ways.
04:41 < sauvin> I dont' think sshd has that kind of granularity, does it?
04:42 < sauvin> I mean, its configs?
04:43 < pnbeast> ,next
04:43 < pnbeast> Nope, still doesn't work.
04:45 < sauvin> Jeebus H. blueballed mutter freaking jumped up butterbut monkeybrains Key Riced, Arch takes a LONG time to install!
04:46 < ayecee> my fricken ears!
04:47 < sauvin> Make a note: if I ever decide to install Arch on real metal (and not in a VM), I gonna get it going and then run off to do some grocery shopping.
04:47 < Prof_Birch> Could you in theory have one init system start another init system
04:48 < ayecee> sure, init systems all the way down
04:49 < ayecee> nothing particularly special about init except that it's the first process to launch.
04:49 < Prof_Birch> Well I am working with the Android init system, which doesn't play nicely with GNU/Linux, and is essentially needed for the Android init process
04:49 < Prof_Birch> That's what I thought, but I am still learning (and mostly self taught)
04:49 < sauvin> And we're discussing Android inits (AGAIN) because...?
04:49 < Prof_Birch> Thanks for the straightforward answer
04:49 < ayecee> :)
04:49 < Prof_Birch> because I haven't solved the problem...?
04:50 < sauvin> Hrm. Thinking Arch might be ready to run in... oh... say... four or five hours?
04:52 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Really slow VM? heh
04:52 < sauvin> Not normally, no.
04:52 < sauvin> By contrast, I can install Kubuntu full hog in about fifteen minutes.
04:52 < Psi-Jack> Had you done all the setup and just waiting for the packages to install?
04:52 < sauvin> Yeah.
04:53 < Psi-Jack> That part... Is usually the fastest part. heh
04:53 < sauvin> That part... is what's making frozen molasses look like an SST.
04:54 < Prof_Birch> Do you think the move away from the unix philosophy is a necessary evil?
04:54 < Psi-Jack> No.
04:55 < Tech_8> hi
04:55 < Prof_Birch> so you're against systemd?
04:55 < Psi-Jack> No.
04:55 < jml2> Prof_Birch, ever since udev came along it's become less and less unix
04:56 < Psi-Jack> I'm completely for systemd, actually. And its many components that work together in.... Dun dun duuuuuuun.. A Unix philosophy.
04:56 < sauvin> Bear in mind that the traditional UNIX philosophy worked well in a particular time and place under a given set of circumstances. Times change.
04:56 < TwistedFate> anyone using firejail
04:56 < TwistedFate> ?
04:56 < Psi-Jack> TwistedFate: Ask better questions.
04:56 < jml2> TwistedFate, you in jail?
04:56 < Prof_Birch> That's what I was wondering. The increasing complexity is a result of modern technology
04:56 < jml2> TwistedFate, LOL
04:56 < Psi-Jack> Jail, of fire?
04:57 < jml2> TwistedFate, need to start a rebellion or somethin?
04:57 < Psi-Jack> Prof_Birch: More like modern capability.
04:57  * TwistedFate puts Psi-Jack in a firejail
04:57  * sauvin notes it's not safe to cook with a gas stove when one HAS massive gas
04:57  * Psi-Jack jacks into TwistedFate's mind and stops him.
04:57  * TwistedFate rolls 20 and resists Psi-Jack's jack
04:57 < TwistedFate> XD
04:58 < Psi-Jack> Cheating, rolling a D20 when it's a D6 world. ;)
04:58 < stevendale> I really like the browser falkon
04:58 < stevendale> (QupZilla()
04:58 < stevendale> *-(
04:59 < ayecee> D6 related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54VJWHL2K3I
05:01 < Psi-Jack> heh
05:01 < stevendale> I always do everything on one screen, in one workspace...
05:01 < sauvin> I'd find that horrifically confusing.
05:01 < stevendale> I guess it's just me, I can focus on what I am doing better if it's the only thing in front of me
05:01 < ayecee> dual monitors make that easier
05:02 < stevendale> They also cut your GPU performance in half ayecee
05:03 < ayecee> if you're displaying things of similar complexity on both, perhaps
05:03 < ayecee> 2d isn't much load for modern gpu
05:03 < xz> hey, I live always open SSH sessions on my PC that's running 24/7. They usually time-out after some time. What do I do to keep them alive & open all the time?
05:03 < xz> I leave*
05:03 < ayecee> xz: your ssh client likely has a keepalive option
05:04 < xz> ayecee using regular ssh on debian, man mentions ServerAliveInterval ServerAliveCountMax and TCPKeepAlive
05:04 < toothe> anyone know the name of 'neofetch' if it goes by something else? https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/new-ubuntu-theme-in-18.04-lts.jpg
05:04 < xz> these are -o options
05:04 < toothe> is it neo-fetch? I'm confused.
05:05 < ayecee> xz: yup
05:05 < xz> ayecee so -o TCPKeepAlive ?
05:05 < ayecee> no, probably the other one
05:05 < toothe> wait...does Linux Mint have Neofetch?
05:07 < ayecee> xz: i think the tcpkeepalive usually has a much longer interval.
05:07 < xz>   ServerAliveInterval 240
05:07 < xz>   ServerAliveCountMax 2
05:07 < xz> I set these two
05:07 < xz> in ~/.ssh/config
05:07 < ayecee> sounds reasonable
05:08 < koala_man> xz: mosh! it's just like ssh except it'll reconnect automatically, even if you're completely offline for hours
05:08 < triceratux> toothe: in debian its just neofetch. no caps, no hyphen http://yandex-asia.archive.parrotsec.org/debian/pool/main/n/neofetch/
05:09 < xz> koala_mann never heard of mosh
05:09 < koala_man> it's pretty awesome
05:09 < Psi-Jack> And its ewwww-dp. :)
05:09 < xz> does it work the same way?
05:10 < toothe> https://dpaste.de/8m4t
05:10 < toothe> triceratux: ^^
05:10 < Psi-Jack> xz: Basically openssh re-implementing the tcp stack over UDP.
05:10 < xz> interesting
05:10 < xz> so it's more responsive?
05:10 < ayecee> not particularly, no
05:10 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmmm, WOuldn't say that, no.
05:11 < xz> so why would I switch?
05:11 < Psi-Jack> In fact, it can be rather quite less responsive, since it's asynchronous.
05:11 < triceratux> toothe: did you do your apt-get update beforehand ?
05:11 < toothe> triceratux: I'll do it now, but this is a pretty recent install of Linux Mint.
05:11 < ayecee> xz: because, being udp, it's connectionless.
05:11 < koala_man> it has some prediction for high latency links but it's just annoying for me
05:11 < Psi-Jack> xz: It's designed for mobile.
05:11 < koala_man> so I turn it off
05:11 < xz> I'm not on mobile, I'm on PC connected to router by wire
05:12 < toothe> triceratux: https://dpaste.de/Fi9S
05:12 < ayecee> since it doesn't depend on a tcp connection, the connection isn't interrupted when a tcp session closes.
05:12 < toothe> Looks like Mint isn't cool enough for neofetch.
05:13 < irwiss> Psi-Jack: it's more responsive especially on high packetloss networks where tcp craps out or situations where ip changes frequently
05:13 < Psi-Jack> Not really...
05:13 < triceratux> toothe: worst case you could probably take it from ubuntu 16.04. mint is based on lts
05:13 < toothe> triceratux: apparently ubuntu 16.04 doens't have it?
05:13  * toothe is confused.
05:13 < Psi-Jack> It would /appear/ to be more responsive, but isn't actually.
05:14 < toothe> its not the biggest deal, but I'm legit suprised.
05:14 < koala_man> xz: ssh doesn't normally time out like that, so I'm guessing there's some transient glitch that causes the connection to drop
05:15 < xz> I changed keep alive, maybe that will help
05:15 < ayecee> pretty common when there's a nat or a conntrack firewal in between
05:15 < xz> I'm connecting to Linode VPS
05:15 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, Linode.. There's your problem.
05:15 < xz> really? I thought they were one of the bests VPS providers
05:15 < Psi-Jack> They won't even implement private networking.
05:15 < xz> there are certainly cheaper options out there
05:15 < sauvin> I don't remember ever giving my ssh client any special switches or configs, and I can stay connected to my linode for days and days and days.
05:16 < xz> sauvin does your PC go to sleep?
05:16 < Psi-Jack> Sleep == stop NIC == Drop connections
05:16 < ayecee> well yeah, that's going to break a connection
05:16 < xz> I think mine does, maybe that's the problem
05:16 < ayecee> that's also where mosh would help
05:17 < sauvin> xz, only when I hit the wrong !@#$!@#^$#@$ key on the !@#$%!#@$%#$^ multimedia !@#$@#% keyboard. It !%#@$ me right to !@#$@#% off.
05:17 < koala_man> I think there's some line noise, can you repeat?
05:17 < Psi-Jack> BBS modem errors detected.
05:17  * sauvin hits the up arrow key, followed by ENTER
05:17 < xz> I'm on debian 9 and I usually press win key + L to lock the screen
05:17 < Psi-Jack> Line noise detected. Upgrade phone line. :)
05:18 < xz> but I think it goes to sleep aferwards, not sure, need to double check
05:18  * sauvin can just hear today's kids asking "What's a 'phone line'?"
05:18 < Psi-Jack> xz: Desktop or Laptop?
05:18 < xz> desktop
05:18 < ayecee> one of the first things i turn off on a fresh windows install
05:18 < Psi-Jack> Desktops don't usually go to sleep.
05:18 < ayecee> they do by default
05:19 < ayecee> it's a green green world
05:19 < toothe> my servers go to sleep. after being idle for 30 minutes
05:19 < toothe> and by "idle", i mean when I don't move the mouse on the GUI
05:19 < toothe> so every 30 minutes, someone has to run through the datacenters to move the mouse
05:19 < ayecee> i can see a downside to that
05:19 < koala_man> when my server is idle for 30 minutes, he goes outside for a smoke
05:20 < sauvin> My desktop doesn't sleep, but the screen saver/lock thing kicks in after five minutes or so.
05:21 < toothe> five minutes??
05:21 < toothe> that seems unusually little
05:21 < rascul> i don't think i've ever had a server with a mouse
05:21 < ayecee> indeed. i can't think that fast.
05:22 < rascul> not a dedicated server, anyway
05:22 < sauvin> It's probably adjustable, I've just never bothered to dig for it.
05:22 < toothe> rascul: I was totally joking :)
05:22 < rascul> i did have a few with touchpads, though
05:22 < popnfloss> 20:35  * pnbeast secretly suspects popnfloss couldn't point to "the garbage collector" if it rolled down the street in an elephant-towed chariot with a gas-powered steam horn
05:22 < popnfloss> what does that even mena
05:22 < popnfloss> mean
05:22 < sauvin> A "gas powered steam horn"?
05:22 < rascul> i'm not sure
05:22 < popnfloss> no, saying i "cant point to the garbage collector"
05:23 < rascul> i can't picture an elephant-towed chariot with a gas-powered steam horn
05:23 < rascul> i don't think the garbage collector is the issue here
05:23 < rascul> i'm more concerned with this chariot
05:23 < pnbeast> It's all very confusing, I'm sure.  It was, as you guess, more metaphorical than literal.
05:23 < popnfloss> just seemed retarded to me
05:24 < pnbeast> Exactly.
05:24 < sauvin> rascul, it's an elephant-drawn chariot because only an elephant is strong enough to tow the garbage man's chariot because it has a locked chambre to store the porn he finds.
05:24 < rascul> oh, well i guess that makes sense
05:24 < popnfloss> why dont you just say "popnfloss, you're a worthless idiot" if you want to insult me
05:24 < rascul> i was wondering how an elephant learned to use a pencil or how to draw
05:24 < popnfloss> instead of going such a weird convoluted way around it
05:24 < rascul> popnfloss would that be an insult?
05:25 < rascul> i know plenty of people who wouldn't be insulted by that statement
05:25 < popnfloss> i dont htink anyone would
05:25 < popnfloss> they would just be confused by it
05:25 < popnfloss> like i was
05:25 < popnfloss> might be one of the dumbest things anyone has ever said to me
05:25 < sauvin> Man... Arch had better rock my world, it had better be better than sex, drugs and Marylin Monroe after spending all this time just installing the stupid thing.
05:25 < rascul> no, i meant would calling you a worthless idiot be insulting to you
05:26 < rascul> just want to make sure, in case i have cause to offer an insult to you in the future
05:26 < pnbeast> Marylin Monroe was sex and drugs.
05:27 < Prof_Birch> Oh man, I love Arch
05:27 < Prof_Birch> I keep trying to move away but it's just too good
05:27 < popnfloss> if you want to insult me you should put the barrel of a shotgun in your mouth and shoot it
05:27 < jml2> Prof_Birch, Arch came much too late for me...
05:27 < popnfloss> that would really insult me good
05:27 < rascul> interesting, but i don't think i'll use that insult
05:27 < jml2> Prof_Birch, arch wasn't around for the 5 years i was already using linux
05:27 < popnfloss> i dont think i would ever recover from an insult like that
05:27 < Prof_Birch> jml2: Did you already have a solid understanding of GNU/Linux systems?
05:27 < jml2> Prof_Birch, yep
05:27 < jml2> Prof_Birch, thanks to debian documentation
05:28 < jml2> Prof_Birch, wikipedia wasn't even around yet
05:28 < jml2> Prof_Birch, call me puff daddy, there was no virtualbox yet either ;-)
05:28 < popnfloss> i liked arch back in the judd vinet era
05:28 < popnfloss> when it was basically a modern fork of crux
05:28 < Prof_Birch> jml2: I jumped ship from debian to Arch specifically to learn GNU/Linux. It's wiki is amazing, and I love being able to tune it
05:28 < popnfloss> idk what the hell happened
05:28 < ayecee> it's as the saying goes, advice must be given away, it's never of any use to oneself.
05:28 < popnfloss> its like they went crazy and tried to turn it into the new gentoo
05:28 < Prof_Birch> jml2: plus pacman is the best
05:28 < jml2> pacman is fast
05:29 < popnfloss> i recommend moving to fedora/centos
05:29 < Prof_Birch> it offers a good balance between gentoo level systems, and people who are sane and just want to use Linux
05:29 < sauvin> I recommend trying a few different distros and just seeing what you like.
05:29 < popnfloss> knowing rhel is more useful for jobs than any other distros
05:29 < sauvin> Depends on the kind of job.
05:29 < popnfloss> and try to avoid the pitfall of disabling selinux rather than learning how to use it
05:29 < jml2> other than that I don't see how it brings more features than other package management.  The only I like the most is "zypper/rpm"  -- that nails everything else to the ground :)) and yet I don't even use opensuse things... but I do still think it's the most powerful one
05:30 < rascul> you won't learn selinux in your lifetime, but you can still try
05:30 < popnfloss> i liked opensuse's package management until they got crazy about vendor stickiness
05:30 < rascul> zypper is good
05:30 < Psi-Jack> popnfloss: It's kind of sad, actually. I've worked for more companies that use Debian & Ubuntu than I have worked for companies using CentOS/RHEL.
05:30 < rascul> popnfloss that's a trivial config change
05:31 < jml2> mandriva based urpm* commands are very mature as well, but they're shifting to "dnf" hell I don't know why.. urpm* things are "great" like zypper
05:31 < jml2> (mageia afaik has been shifting to dnf)
05:31 < rascul> 'solver.allowVendorChange = true' in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf
05:31 < Psi-Jack> zypper has the issue of relying too much on btrfs, though.
05:32 < rascul> it does? i've never ran opensuse with btrfs
05:32 < popnfloss> yeah but still i dont like how they do it that way
05:32 < Psi-Jack> rascul: For rollback capability, it relies 100% on btrfs snapshotting.
05:32 < popnfloss> i would rather just temporarily enable repos than deal with priorities/vendor changes
05:32 < Psi-Jack> Kinda sad, by that.
05:32 < rascul> i've never bothered with rollback stuff
05:33 < popnfloss> which dnf makes easy
05:33 < rascul> popnfloss yep, it's quite simple with zypper too
05:33 < popnfloss> i tried out mageia and i liked it but one thing i dont get is why they have the latest versions of all these fedora packages, yet they still have firefox 52
05:33 < rascul> nothing good ever came from mandrake
05:34 < popnfloss> i think i used mandriva once years ago
05:34 < popnfloss> i dont remember much about it
05:34 < popnfloss> back when i was just trying all the distros listed on polishlinux
05:36 < popnfloss> i think that site just gave up on trying to keep track of all the distros
05:36 < popnfloss> most of the ones that were on there are dead now
05:37 < popnfloss> honestly i think its best to avoid anything thats not the "mainstream" distros
05:37 < rascul> i generally agree
05:37 < popnfloss> direct rhel and debian derivatives
05:37 < Prof_Birch> Most new distros don't really offer much
05:37 < popnfloss> and avoid derivatives of derivatives
05:37 < Prof_Birch> they're just "because I could"
05:38 < popnfloss> theyre sometimes interesting to look at but not to use regularly
05:39 < Prof_Birch> I just want to get GNU/Linux running fully on Android
05:39 < popnfloss> what do you mean by that
05:40 < rascul> run it on android? that's been done for years
05:40 < rascul> replace android? that depends on the device
05:40 < popnfloss> android uses the linux kernel, so if theres any gnu programs on it then technically its running gnu/linux
05:40 < syb0rg> nobody wants a technically linux phone
05:40 < syb0rg> we want an actually linux phone, lol
05:40 < popnfloss> and iirc when you use a terminal on android it has all the gnu utils
05:40 < rascul> no, it's usually busybox
05:40 < popnfloss> remember when ubuntu wanted to make a phone
05:41 < syb0rg> yeah they failed
05:41 < popnfloss> that was hilarious
05:41 < syb0rg> hopefully within the next decade someone will get it right
05:42 < syb0rg> was it purism who has a current project toward that end?
05:42 < syb0rg> this https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
05:43 < Dan39> i think samsung was doing something too with tizen, which runs linux, but not sure how much it is like a "gnu/linux distro" or if its more like android
05:44 < popnfloss> i mean android is already your linux phone
05:44 < Dan39> its more like a java phone :p
05:44 < Prof_Birch> Yeah
05:44 < syb0rg> popnfloss, that is the "technically linux" I mentioned
05:44 < popnfloss> its just gnu/linux with a bunch of java programs running on it
05:44 < Prof_Birch> A bunch of Java is an understatement
05:44 < Dan39> popnfloss: you mean its linux with a bunch of java, where is the gnu?
05:45 < syb0rg> When I have a phone that I can use like my pc I will be happy
05:45 < popnfloss> android has the gnu coreutils built in
05:45 < popnfloss> so its gnu/linux
05:45 < Prof_Birch> Thats exactly what I am working on
05:45 < Prof_Birch> Phone like a PC
05:45 < syb0rg> nice Prof_Birch, what project is that?
05:45 < popnfloss> just dont try telling stallman that
05:45 < Prof_Birch> I am trying to avoid virtualization like Samsungs DeX
05:45 < syb0rg> or just your own thing
05:45 < Prof_Birch> syb0rg: for now it's my personal project
05:45 < syb0rg> good luck then (in a non-sarcastic tone)
05:46 < Prof_Birch> I am happy to have others help, but people often just say "why"
05:46 < Prof_Birch> It's easy enough to get X running and a chroot of arch, but I run into more issues when it comes to compiling programs, or running proprietary software
05:47 < popnfloss> and you have to use a language like java when you're writing software that has to be compatible with a bunch of devices using a myriad of different architectures
05:47 < Prof_Birch> Mobile has pretty much selected ARM as the standard
05:47 < Prof_Birch> of course, Linux can also be compiled for a bunch of different hardware
05:48 < popnfloss> arm has so many microarchitectures that are not binary compatible with one another
05:48 < Prof_Birch> That's why compilation is so crucial
05:48 < popnfloss> if every company that made android phones got together and agreed on one then maybe they wouldnt have to use java for everything
05:49 < popnfloss> thats probably the one thing about the iphone that makes it better than android phones
05:49 < stevendale> Hey Prof_Birch
05:49 < syb0rg> popnfloss, the only way that would happen would be if they decided on a way to collude. Lol
05:49 < Prof_Birch> stevendal: hello
05:49 < stevendale> I am playing Pokemon Emerald in RetroArch/mGBA Prof_Birch :)
05:49 < Prof_Birch> stevendale: one of the best games IMHO
05:50  * dviola was playing punisher and MK on RetroArch/MAME today :P
05:50 < stevendale> I got a New 3DS XL and Alpha Sapphire but I didn't like them Prof_Birc :(
05:50 < stevendale> Way too easy, it basically gives you free Pokemon in the storyline
05:50 < Prof_Birch> I want to offer a ROM w/ Arch on it, so when you compile the ROM it compiles Arch for the architecture.
05:51 < Prof_Birch> and the arch build system can compile things not in the standard ARM repositories
05:51 < syb0rg> popnfloss, I heard there was another language gaining popularity on android, although I forget its name atm
05:51 < Dan39> yea google is pushing for it to replace java iirc
05:51 < Prof_Birch> Java is and always will be king. You're probably thinking about Kotlin
05:51 < stevendale> Swift, syb0rg?
05:51 < Prof_Birch> which is just fancy Java
05:51 < Dan39> kotlin, yea
05:51 < Dan39> isnt google backing kotlin?
05:51 < syb0rg> yes kotlin Dan39
05:51 < Prof_Birch> Kotlin is just magic glue for Java. I'm not going to bitch about it though
05:51 < syb0rg> probably, the guy I heard it from pushes google docs as a sourcer
05:51 < syb0rg> *source
05:52 < syb0rg> I haven't touched it so I'm not complaining Prof_Birch, I heard about it literally yesterday
05:52 < popnfloss> contrary to popular belief, arm isnt really that much more energy efficient than x86 is
05:52 < Prof_Birch> but if I get arch running full on Android, I can run binder IPC calls to other languages, such as say, Python
05:52 < popnfloss> the main reason mobile devices all use arm is its cheap
05:52 < stevendale> RetroArch, Wine, etc, they're all on Linux, and none of them are emulators :)
05:52 < popnfloss> stevendale: what
05:52 < popnfloss> retroarch is nothing but emulators
05:52 < syb0rg> especially wine stevendale, it's in the name after all
05:53 < stevendale> popnfloss, RetroArch itself isn't an emulator, the cores are, which are independent
05:53 < dviola> some cores in RetroArch are image viewers and media players, iirc
05:54 < stevendale> Yeah it can do those too dviola
05:54 < stevendale> Kind of like emacs
05:54 < Prof_Birch> Anyway, QEMU can help with some of the architecture issues
05:54 < stevendale> I wonder If I could pay somebody to make a web browser for RetroArch
05:54 < stevendale> Or an IRC client ;)
05:54 < dviola> RetroArch is great
05:54 < Prof_Birch> but I need to give Arch full access, which is where systemd and a custom kernel comes in
05:54 < syb0rg> you can pay someone to do anything stevendale, money is magic
05:55 < stevendale> I am using Debian Unstable Prof_Birch :)
05:55 < dviola> I got surprised today how easy it is to use MAME with RA
05:55 < dviola> I was under the impression that it was more difficult
05:55 < Prof_Birch> stevandale: as your daily driver?
05:55 < stevendale> Yep Prof_Birch :)
05:55 < stevendale> I'm unemployed
05:55 < stevendale> My whole day is free time
05:56 < Prof_Birch> Nothing like having Linux knowledge and no job. It's what drove me to the Navy
05:56 < Prof_Birch> Too smart to be a server, but no credentials
05:56 < syb0rg> Please tell me that's not my future
05:57 < Prof_Birch> Is the issue with ARM the difference with the core processor architectures? or the overall SoC drivers
05:57 < syb0rg> I will try to keep my linux knowledge to "power-user" levels if that keeps me from getting enlisted =P
05:57 < Prof_Birch> Yeah, I don't really want to be here. but gotta pay off that student debt somehow
05:57 < Prof_Birch> and health insurance isn't cheap after 26
05:58 < syb0rg> I don't blame you, I have known some pretty cool people who joined the military
05:58 < stevendale> I'm 18, I get health cover through my parents till I am 25 :P
05:58 < Prof_Birch> Fortunately I was rated as an Electronics Technician. The Navy will pay for me to get Linux+, Net+, Sec+, and Cisco CCNA
05:59 < Prof_Birch> So there's that. And I can finish my Comp Sci degree. Silly me I thought History and Philosophy would take me far
05:59 < syb0rg> see that right there is the big draw and they know it lol, they will help you get those credentials
05:59 < syb0rg> I am finishing an associates in comp. engineering right now Prof_Birch, not jumping into university for now to avoid debt, so I get it
06:00 < syb0rg> History and philosophy are good subjects too, although I cannot stand memorizing dates and names
06:00 < syb0rg> those are cool subjects for someone else to study ;)
06:00 < Prof_Birch> Neither can I, ha. It was more about the timeline and concepts though, I could google the dates
06:00 < Louge> has anyone tried to set their system-wide key bindings to, let's say, emacs's?
06:01 < Prof_Birch> I am trying to get my Android hybrid working before my first deployment, so I can work with it on ship.
06:01 < syb0rg> Fair, I had one college level history class and it was the names and dates that turned me off
06:01 < stevendale> Grub > kernel > bash > autorun emacs
06:01 < stevendale> That's emacs OS :)
06:01 < Louge> like for example, on firefox, Ctrl + h for backspace instead of opening History
06:01 < syb0rg> stevendale, you dirty heathen
06:01 < sauvin> My girlfriend went through four years of hell to get a BA in Anthropology, and now she's working as a receptionist.
06:01 < Prof_Birch> I intend to use a udev event to shutdown Zygote, and startX. Have a PC/TV friendly display manager, so I can use it as a desktop, or a game console
06:01 < syb0rg> we all know vim is the best
06:02 < Louge> stevendale: lol
06:02 < Prof_Birch> I love VIM, and wish I knew it more. Emacs is my IDE though
06:02 < stevendale> Can emacs link to g++ Prof_Birch? XD
06:02 < stevendale> And compile for you like CodeBlocks
06:02 < Psi-Jack> EmacsOS, great operating system, just lacks a decent text editor. However, spacemacs exists which has vim integrated into it.
06:02  * Psi-Jack ducks.
06:02 < Prof_Birch> I love vim modes. It's so much faster
06:03 < syb0rg> that is a scary level of recursion Psi-Jack
06:03 < Prof_Birch> but emacs lets me work with the command line so easily, and LISP is beautiful
06:03 < Louge> maybe I can accomplish that by tweaking my xkb?
06:03 < Louge> just wondered if anyone had tried it before
06:05 < mattfly> hello
06:05 < Prof_Birch> Is there any issue with systemd being pid2 rather than pid 1? can it still get sigchld
06:05 < Prof_Birch> and sigterm
06:05 < mattfly> how can i run a gui program from my terminal emulator on gui without all the gui variables set?
06:05 < rascul> Prof_Birch how is it pid 2 and not 1?
06:06 < Prof_Birch> I was going to give Androids init PID 1, and have the first process started systemd
06:06 < mattfly> like if i export DISPLAY=:0 from a tty and launch it i get the rersult i want, but not if i simply launch from the console emulator inside the gui, so how can i simulate that ?
06:06 < Prof_Birch> Systemd won't read Androids init language
06:07 < Prof_Birch> I can switch so systemd is pid 1, but I am worried this will cause system instability for Android, and Android is much more picky than GNU/Linux
06:08 < Prof_Birch> My knowledge of init systems is unfortunately lacking
06:08 < jml2> lol emacsos
06:09 < rascul> Prof_Birch i guess it would work ok, i don't know that systemd need to be pid 1 to do it's thing unless you're using it for the main init
06:09 < jml2> Prof_Birch, you lack kernels before you poop init
06:09 < Prof_Birch> unless I can be sure both process recieve sigchld, which seems to be the most important feature of daemon management. Then I would set systemd to handle all the GNU/Linux/Arch systems and Init to handle the Android system
06:09 < stevendale> Prof_Birch, Remember to save inside the Pokemon Centre ;)
06:09 < Psi-Jack> spacemacs, where you can get your carpal tunnel from emacs, and decent text editor from vim, and counseling from eliza!
06:10 < rascul> oh my
06:10 < Psi-Jack> heh
06:10 < rascul> you just used decent in the same sentence as vim
06:10 < Prof_Birch> stevendale: How can I forget! Besides, I can't make the best pokedex if I can't work with the best mobile and desktop OS
06:10  * jml2 ⊂(◉‿◉)つ
06:10 < jrgilman> oh god not this, it's 2018
06:10 < dviola> eliza?
06:10 < Prof_Birch> jml2: eplain please
06:10 < jml2> i believe that's a sip client right eliza?
06:11 < rascul> isn't eliza the chat bot?
06:11 < Psi-Jack> Counselor chat bot. :)
06:11 < Prof_Birch> If I can shim Init, then systemd would be a better choice because I could optimize androids boot, but one thing at a time
06:11 < jml2> yeah i never looked hard enough intp asterisk...  that stuff is amazing, you can program codes and do anything with it
06:12 < ayecee> that's ms. counselor chat bot to you
06:13 < jml2> Prof_Birch, (‿|‿)
06:14 < jml2> Prof_Birch, I got that ass from http://asciimoji.com/
06:14 < ayecee> "ascii"
06:14 < jml2> Prof_Birch, I need to edit that webpage to make it better
06:14 < syb0rg> ayecee wishes he had a chatbot to counsel him
06:14  * jml2 (͡ ° ͜ʖ ͡ °)
06:15 < ayecee> syb0rg: why do you feel that way?
06:15 < Psi-Jack> Because syb0rg's don't get counseling. :)
06:15 < syb0rg> because my neural net told  me to, stop making me feel insecure guys
06:15 < syb0rg> I'm a syb0rg after all
06:16 < syb0rg> maybe I've been watching too much westworld
06:16 < Psi-Jack> syb0rg: Heh, "Humans" is pretty good too.
06:17 < syb0rg> haven't watched that one Psi-Jack, maybe I should o_o
06:17 < ayecee> sometimes hard to tell if the joke wasn't understood or if people are riffing on the joke
06:17 < syb0rg> spoken like a chatbot ayecee, you wouldn't get context. Pssh.
06:17 < ayecee> or, i guess, if the joke just wazsn't funny
06:18 < ayecee> oooh. right in the feels.
06:18 < syb0rg> chatbots also don't get humor.
06:20 < syb0rg> ayecee, you don't have to pretend. Silicon life forms have no feels
06:20 < ayecee> racist
06:21 < syb0rg> that's full on speciesest
06:21 < syb0rg> I feel like there should be a more elegant word for that
06:21 < Prof_Birch> If I was going to compile the binary on one system, and install it to another (without a package manager) how would I go about it. Google isn't telling me anything
06:22 < syb0rg> Prof_Birch, there is something known as "targets"
06:22 < syb0rg> but I have not messed with them
06:22 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: that's something called cross-compiling, and it's a big PITA
06:22 < ayecee> you'd need a cross-compiling toolchain for the target
06:22 < syb0rg> from what I have heard the chatbot is correct
06:22 < Prof_Birch> It's not the compiling part I am worried about. I am using an Android x86 for now
06:22 < Prof_Birch> It's installing it to Android
06:23 < Prof_Birch> Which uses busybox, and bionic rather than GNU-coreutils and libc
06:23 < Prof_Birch> *glibc
06:23 < ayecee> it would still be the compiling part you'd worry about, unless you were compiling static binaries.
06:23 < ayecee> the typical way to have a gnu/linux environment on android is within a chroot
06:23 < Prof_Birch> I have that part
06:23 < Prof_Birch> Systemd technically is already compiled in Arch, so it's on there
06:23 < ayecee> then what's the problem?
06:24 < Prof_Birch> but when I run it in chroot it doesn't work properly (the IPC) for things like fakeroot
06:24 < Prof_Birch> and I can't get it to run in the standard Android environment without being chrooted in
06:24 < jim> Prof_Birch, you'd somehow have to transfer the files there
06:24 < Prof_Birch> if I edit the LD_LIBRARY_PATH it gives me magic ELF errors
06:25 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: your descriptions are vague and conflicting.
06:25 < Prof_Birch> I am not sure how to be specific about this, I am still kind of new to it, but I can try to be more precise if you can ask questions
06:26 < ayecee> best format is - i do X, i expect Y, i get Z instead. with actual error messages, not paraphrased.
06:26 < jim> fakeroot was invented for the debian packaging process
06:26 < mrush> anyone use 9p fsdev passthrough much with qemu
06:26 < Psi-Jack> mrush: Ask better questions.
06:27 < jim> and, exact text of the X command, and logs for Z
06:28 < Prof_Birch> Ok, I have Arch installed the SD, and I edit LD_LIBRARY_PATH to the SD distro, and try to run dbus-daemon --system. I would expect it to run just fine, but it give me magic ELF error
06:28 < Prof_Birch> is that better?
06:29 < jim> mrush, for questions, <ayecee> best format is - i do X, i expect Y, i get Z instead. with actual error messages, not paraphrased.
06:30 < syb0rg> I love how this channel is simultaneously rude and educational.
06:31 < Two_Dogs> rude is giving half assed 'i broke it, why?'
06:31 < stevendale> Hey Two_Dogs :) Nice to see you again buddy
06:31 < syb0rg> Two_Dogs, rude is being one dog short of three
06:31 < jim> Prof_Birch, yes, better, and, when you say "I edit LD_LIBRARY_PATH to the SD distro", what do you mean exactly?
06:31 < syb0rg> but also what you said =P
06:31 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: what is a magic elf error
06:32 < jim> syb0rg, please don't mess around with people's nics
06:33 < syb0rg> sure jim, although I was acknowledging the reference his nick was making
06:33 < Prof_Birch> So I have Arch installed to a microSD card, which is in /mnt/media_sd/<uuid> on Android
06:33 < syb0rg> but noted
06:33 < Prof_Birch> I link LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/mnt/media_sd/<uuid>/bin/lib
06:33 < jim> thanks
06:33 < Prof_Birch> magic ELF refers to certain numbers at the start of a file that determine something about how they operate. I am not too familiar
06:34 < jim> ohh maybe it's trying to load libraries that aren't actually libraries
06:35 < Prof_Birch> lib and lib64 are the linked libraries when I "file dbus-daemon" which is why I added them to the dynamic linker path
06:35 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: what does a magic elf error look like
06:36 < Prof_Birch> I'm trying to reproduce the error, but it's giving me a "no such file or directory", which is a lie on Android
06:36 < jim> it's magic... mere mortals can't see it
06:36 < syb0rg> I mean we are talking about elves
06:36 < ayecee> let us know when you can reproduce the error
06:37 < Prof_Birch> actually, the error likes like it is in relation to "ls" which could be in conflict with busybox
06:38 < Prof_Birch> it says "CANNONT LINK EXECUTABLE "ls": "path/to/usr/lib/libc.so" has bad ELF magic
06:38 < jordo2323> Hello
06:38 < jim> syb0rg, well, ELF actually stands for Execution and Linking Format, and is a specification of how a file should be laid out to be an executable, and others, to specify an object file and a lib
06:38 < jim> hi
06:38 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: what command are you running to get that error message
06:38 < syb0rg> jim, fair. I knew it was a thing, but now I know what it stands for
06:38 < Prof_Birch> I need to redirect the dynamic linker library to run dbus with the full Arch libraries, but I think it's cutting off the dynamic linked busybox libraries
06:38 < Prof_Birch> I am running ls
06:39 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: you mixing two diff architecture libs?
06:39 < ayecee> what is the actual error from running ls
06:39 < Prof_Birch> I shouldn't be. It's Android_x86 and Arch for amd64
06:39 < ayecee> the literal error, not paraphrased
06:39 < Prof_Birch> When I chroot it works just fine
06:39 < Prof_Birch> that was the actual error from running ls
06:39 < ayecee> well why don't you chroot first
06:39 < ayecee> no, it wasn't
06:39 < Prof_Birch> yes, it was
06:39 < mrush> thank you all for your generous guidance on channel etiquette. i'm having trouble ascertaining the true nature of qemu's '-fsdev' option, which is preventing me from replacing the boot-time command-line option with a monitor command. i'm not experience any errors which produce any sort of log but rather attempting to casually query any old-hands present who might have the necessary esoteric knowledge and be
06:40 < ayecee> no, it wasn't
06:40 < mrush> willing to share here via irc, since my stfw techniques have not borne good results
06:40 < Prof_Birch> yes, it was
06:40 < syb0rg> jim linux grub files introduced me to the word automagic so I know that terminology gets... weird.
06:40 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: the error contained CANNONT?
06:41 < Prof_Birch> I have to type it, since its running on an android terminal in a VM, and I can't share the clipboard. With the exception of my misspelled words and my pseudo filepath, it is the exact error
06:41 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: it looks more like you hastily typed a paraphrased version of it
06:41 < jml2> Prof_Birch, remember about the poop? (‿|‿)
06:41 < ayecee> could you use the real filepath
06:41 < jim> syb0rg, historically, there was a time when linux was moving to ELF from another format called a.out. the thing about doing that move, is that once you do, your a.out executables all stop working and you have to replace them with ELF executables (and that's hard to do manually, without executables)
06:41 < Prof_Birch> It's the full length message. Android isn't very helpful with system errors
06:41 < ayecee> neither are you :P
06:41 < Prof_Birch> If I could send a screenshot I would
06:42 < ayecee> what, you don't have a camera?
06:42 < syb0rg> jim, from my very limited experience writing C isn't a.out the default name of a C executable compiled by gcc
06:42 < syb0rg> *?
06:42 < jim> yep, and that's a coincidence :)
06:42 < jml2> Prof_Birch, you can't init unless your butt has a nice kernel ... (man dbus-run-session)
06:42 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: taking more care in typing it would also suffice
06:42 < syb0rg> that is quite the coincidence
06:43 < jim> yep it is
06:43 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: without more care, it's very difficult to determine what is an error and what is a typo.
06:43 < jml2> Prof_Birch, screenshot of what? your poop?
06:43 < ayecee> jml2: shush.
06:43 < Prof_Birch> Ok, here "CANNOT LINK EXECUTABLE "ls": "/mnt/media_rw/a640ffdb-5fdd-4cda-a871-c1b17828de48/usr/lib/libc.so" has bad ELF magic"
06:43 < syb0rg> jim there is no historical reason for the convergence? I can kind of get it: "a" for the first letter in the alphabet and "out" for output, but that still seems incredibly unlikely
06:43 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: okay, what happens when you run it within the chroot?
06:44 < jim> there might be, but I don't know it... guessing, maybe they named the format after the default filename
06:44  * jml2 tells Prof_Birch -- "DeskDock Pro" via usb is faster than an android terminal in a VM
06:44 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: the reason that you're getting that error is that the android linker doesn't understand the format of the binary you've compiled.
06:45 < syb0rg> fair
06:45 < Prof_Birch> when I chroot, and run "dbus-daemon --system" I get "Failed to start message bus: Failed to bind socket "/run/dbus/system_bus_socket":L No such file or directory
06:45 < Prof_Birch> which makes sense, because Android doesn't use the /run directory
06:45 < ayecee> does that directory exist within the chroot?
06:46 < Prof_Birch> no. There's only /run. No /run/dub/<etc>
06:46 < ayecee> could you make that directory?
06:46 < mrush> no qemu/kvm users preset, eh?
06:46 < mrush> darn
06:47 < jim> well once I was using qemu/kvm
06:47 < jml2> mrush, may 13 sunday morny, and the first thing you say is the canadian eh
06:47 < Prof_Birch> I could make it, yes. Wouldn't it be an arbitrary file/directory rather than an actual system_bus_socket (whatever that is)
06:47 < jim> but I haven't started my guests for a long time
06:47 < ayecee> that is, make the directory /run/dbus within the chroot
06:47 < jml2> mrush, lol
06:47 < ayecee> you would not make system_bus_socket, because dbus-daemon makes that.
06:47 < jim> and I didn't have to pass any device through
06:47 < mrush> jml2: lol
06:48 < mrush> jim: ah
06:48 < mrush> thanks anyway, all
06:52 < SaEeDIRHA> hello guys,  i have a question , I have a server with different users , and each user has a  directory for their web site (Virtual hosts using apache) but in order to make that access able for apache user (www-data) i need to make them permission 755 (rwx,rx,rx), but to do so i also need to give the same permission to the user's home directory , this will then make it access able for other users if they log in
06:52 < Prof_Birch> I am back
06:52 < SaEeDIRHA> i was wondering is there any way to limit the users so they cannot access other users home directory
06:53 < Prof_Birch> I have been running dbus for its IPC service
06:53 < SaEeDIRHA> but the apache users would be able to (so they can have their website folder in their home folder )
06:53 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, cd /home , chmod o= * <enter>
06:53 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, oh apache
06:53 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, use setfacl to add www-data (or whatever apache runs as), to your home folder and ~/public_html
06:54 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, yes it is possible, and it is very easy to do
06:54 < jim> SaEeDIRHA, a school I was at once made a dir /html-dirs, and gave each user created (did this with a script), a separate dir named for their user and a public_html dir inside that
06:54 < SaEeDIRHA> jml2, yes but then the parent directory in this case home folder also need to be access able , which then ultimatly would give read access to other users
06:55 < jim> that way, the students could keep their home dir closed if they want
06:55 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, not if you listened to those two things I told you :)
06:55 < Prof_Birch> Should a dbus in a chroot interface with the system just fine? I am not really sure how chroot works, I just know it doesn't let me do things like send shutdown signals
06:55 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, use "chmod o= *" in /home, then use a setfacl rule to enable apache to have rx rights
06:55 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: what happens when you try?
06:55 < Prof_Birch> try what
06:56 < SaEeDIRHA> okay jml2 , thanks let me check it out
06:56 < ayecee> try to do the thing you're doing that isn't working
06:56 < ayecee> this is a question you should hear every time you ask anything.
06:56 < Prof_Birch> i run makepkg -si (which runs the arch build system). I get an error that fakeroot cant start faked because there is no SysV IPC
06:56 < ayecee> what is the literal error message
06:57 < Prof_Birch> Hold on, I'll try to get it to run
06:57 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, if the group for average users is "users" , then that is dumb, just use "chgrp" against /home/<a user> to be a unique group (eg, chown usera:usera /home/usera   -- group here is usera only)
06:57 < SaEeDIRHA> jml2, what does chmod o=* does ?
06:57 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, there's a space
06:57 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, it means "other" (non-owner, non-group)  to have no rwx
06:57 < Psi-Jack> o=* would fail (as it would match a filename.
06:58 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, equiv to  o-rwx
06:58 < Psi-Jack> o= *,on the other hand... sets other permissions to off, rwx
06:58 < SaEeDIRHA> jml2, every user has its own group , but as i said to make the website directory access able for apache user i had to give read permission to the parent(home) folder , which then gives access to other users as well
06:58 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, "o= " or "o-rwx"
06:58 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, sure.
06:58 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, and google "acl" :)
06:59 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, acl is beyond basic unix permissions
06:59 < SaEeDIRHA> will do , thank you :)
06:59 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, getfacl will show what is set on /home/*
06:59 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, you'll see a "." iirc at the end of unix-permissions to show there's acl set
07:00 < SaEeDIRHA> jml2, nice
07:00 < jml2> setfacl -m g:<apachegroup>:rx /home/userpath
07:00 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, then do -> setfacl -d -m g:<apachegroup>:rx /home/userpath/public_html    i think
07:01 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, not nec to use -d against /home/user but rather /home/user/public_html
07:01 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, or whatever ~/<userdir> you are using
07:01 < SaEeDIRHA> jml2, this would then give access to apache user and limit other users ?
07:01 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, correct
07:01 < SaEeDIRHA> jml2, legend , thanks alot man :)
07:02 < jml2> SaEeDIRHA, hopefully you're using an acl-aware filesystem :) tehehe
07:02 < SaEeDIRHA> jml2, yes , acl is already active
07:02 < Prof_Birch> fakeroot, while creating message channels: Function not implemented
07:02 < Prof_Birch> This may be due to a lack of SYS IPC support
07:02 < Prof_Birch> fakeroot: error while starting the 'faked' daemon
07:02 < Prof_Birch> ls
07:03 < Prof_Birch> oops, ignore the ls
07:06 < Prof_Birch> So I don't know how to resolve that. dbus and systemd are the standard for arch
07:07 < Prof_Birch> I don't think systemd is running, but it shouldn't be an issue with dbus
07:07 < jml2> dbus is the new ipc
07:08 < Prof_Birch> yes, and dbus-daemon --system started with no errors (now)
07:09 < Prof_Birch> Thanks for all of your help with this by the way. Normally people aren't so helpful with Android
07:10 < Prof_Birch> perhaps I need to start systemd and that redirects sysv IPC to dbus?
07:11 < pnbeast> Just because this channel isn't about android people aren't helpful?  The deuce, you say!
07:12 < Prof_Birch> Ha, I'm asking Linux questions, just in the context of Android
07:12 < pnbeast> Next the mac users will stop telling the channel os x is the same thing as Linux!
07:13 < Prof_Birch> Android channels are even less useful with Android TBH, because non of them work with the system level
07:13 < pnbeast> Ah, looking for the nickel you dropped over here because there's no light where you dropped it?
07:13 < pnbeast> I remember that from Bazooka Joe comics when I was a kid.
07:17 < Prof_Birch> any idea?
07:17 < ayecee> back when dirt was young
07:17 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: when you ask a question like that, keep in mind that most people aren't watching this channel exclusively
07:18 < ayecee> you need more context
07:18 < Prof_Birch> How can I get more context, also, sorry
07:18 < ayecee> even if you feel like you've just said it
07:18 < ayecee> you need to describe what someone could have any idea about
07:19  * jml2 nuts -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0t0J_ERzHM
07:19 < ayecee> because they're probably not going to scroll back
07:19 < sauvin> Nevertheless, you need to bear in mind that most people in this channel would agree that Android isn't GNU/Linux.
07:19 < ayecee> this doesn't seem to be anything android specific
07:19 < Prof_Birch> Even I agree that Android isn't GNU/Linux
07:20 < Prof_Birch> right, I am working with a chrooted GNU/Linux
07:20 < ayecee> this is similar to running linux in a chroot on a different distribution
07:20 < Prof_Birch> Most people stop listening after they hear Android though
07:20 < sauvin> chrooted? The *host*, is it Android?
07:20 < ayecee> yes
07:20 < sauvin> I've just stopped listening.
07:20 < Prof_Birch> yep
07:20 < ayecee> granted, even that scenario is also unusual in a gnu/linux environment
07:21 < sauvin> Android uses a modified Linux kernel with a wonky libc as I remember.
07:21 < Prof_Birch> it seems like a fairly uncommon error
07:21 < Prof_Birch> Yeah, it uses bionic
07:21 < [R]> sauvin: you're a modified linux kernel
07:21 < ayecee> the libc is irrelevant in a chroot
07:21 < ayecee> and the modifications aren't so severe
07:21 < Two_Dogs> chrooted what?
07:22 < Two_Dogs> the android?
07:22 < sauvin> What this means is that you really need somebody with expertise in the base Android OS. Not likely to find such people here.
07:22 < ayecee> Two_Dogs: you are asking questions using words, but the questions don't make sense.
07:22 < Prof_Birch> I know, but I don't find those people on Android either
07:22 < ayecee> no, this doesn't involve the base Android OS.
07:22 < sauvin> Then I'm confused.
07:22 < ayecee> yup
07:22 < Prof_Birch> Its mostly the Linux kernel, and a chrooted GNU/Linux distro
07:23 < Prof_Birch> the Android subsystems are for the most part irrelevant
07:23 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: so, any idea about whaqt
07:23 < sauvin> The fact that it's a "linux kernel" alone doesn't qualify what you're after for continued discussion here. What's the base system you're working with?
07:23 < Prof_Birch> The fakeroot errors I put it. You might have missed them. I can repost them if need be
07:23 < Two_Dogs> i believe Prof_Birch is in android terminal wanting to make android do something android using arch(distro) as an excuse to get an assist on the issues hes having on ANDROID, ayecee
07:23 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: yes, that's what i'm saying. you need to repost them.
07:24 < ayecee> Two_Dogs: i believe you believe that
07:24 < Prof_Birch> I don't want Android to do anything Android.
07:24 < sauvin> So, this is a hacked up Android you're wanting to run in an Arch chroot?
07:24 < Two_Dogs> thats a guess, because way back Prof_Birch says 'there aint '/run' on android, so where the heck is arch?
07:24 < Prof_Birch> I already have ran arch in chroot, as well as a full xserver
07:24 < ayecee> no. this is an arch chroot he wants to run within android.
07:24 < Prof_Birch> arch is on an sdcard
07:24 < sauvin> In that case, we probably can't help.
07:24 < Prof_Birch> Android doesn't use the standard FSH
07:25 < Two_Dogs> if arch is running than prove it
07:25 < Prof_Birch> ayecee has been very helpful
07:25 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: what?
07:25 < ayecee> seriously people, read a bit before you put it in a pigeonhole.
07:25 < Prof_Birch> see, this is what normally happens
07:25 < ayecee> Two_Dogs: it's okay to not understand. you can say nothing when that happens. it's actually preferred that way.
07:25 < sauvin> I can believe that. What I'm trying to decide is if this is an interoperability issue, or an Android issue.
07:26 < ayecee> it's neither.
07:26 < [R]> ayecee: you're putting pigeons in holes!?
07:26 < sauvin> ayecee, then what is it?
07:26 < ayecee> it's a normal linux issue in an unusual environment.
07:26 < sauvin> See, it's the "unusual environment" that's throwing me.
07:26 < ayecee> a chroot is pretty unusual.
07:26 < sauvin> Not really. I just got done trying to hack at Arch, as a matter of fact, in a chroot.
07:27 < Prof_Birch> cool, than maybe you can help
07:27 < Prof_Birch> listen to the error
07:27 < sauvin> I doubt it. My efforts failed.
07:27 < ayecee> sauvin: it's okay to say nothing then.
07:27 < Prof_Birch> "fakeroot, while creating message channels: Function not implemented" "This may be due to a lack of SYSV IPC support" "fakeroot: error while starting the 'faked' daemon"
07:28 < sauvin> Yes, it is, and if it can be shown that this actually is either a GNU/Linux issue, or an interoperability issue with same, I'll shut up.
07:28 < Prof_Birch> I have dbus-daemon --system running
07:28 < [R]> Prof_Birch: sounds like your kernel is missing features
07:28 < ayecee> sauvin: could you, like, shut up anyways?
07:28 < Prof_Birch> Lit. I can fix that
07:28 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: ipc normally requires a shmfs filesystem to be mounted within the chroot.
07:28 < ayecee> sysv ipc anyhow
07:28 < sauvin> SYSV is the sh* stuff?
07:29 < KernelBloomer> honestly folks
07:29 < ayecee> for example, in a regular linux system, i have tmpfs mounted on /dev/shm
07:29 < KernelBloomer> its better to use old laptop than pay alot for new ones
07:29 < [R]> KernelBloomer: great tip...
07:29 < KernelBloomer> please raise hands if you also rock linux on your old laptops
07:30 < Prof_Birch> ok
07:30 < ayecee> KernelBloomer: go away, buzzfeed
07:30 < KernelBloomer> :)
07:30 < Prof_Birch> /dev/shm exists, it's an empty directory
07:30 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: is there a tmpfs mounted there?
07:31 < ayecee> i don't know if that's important, honestly.
07:31 < Prof_Birch> I can't tell
07:31 < ayecee> run "mount" within the chroot
07:31 < ayecee> assuming the procfs is mounted in /proc within the chroot
07:32 < ayecee> ah, that's probably something that's missing too
07:32 < KernelBloomer> [R], actually I have bought 2 different gaming laptops recently
07:32 < [R]> KernelBloomer: EXTREME
07:32 < Muimi> I'm trying to move my data from a Windows PC to a Linux PC in a backup over the network.  Is the easiest way to do this to simply connect them to the same wifi and transfer files?
07:32 < Prof_Birch> tmpfs on /dev type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,relatime,seclable,mode=755)
07:32 < ayecee> Muimi: sounds reasonable
07:32 < KernelBloomer> and both of them had issues. sold them and got myself old rock solid laptop. running smooth linux
07:32 < Prof_Birch> I have /proc /sys/ and /dev bound from the host system
07:32 < KernelBloomer> with intel wifi
07:32 < Prof_Birch> and /dev/pts
07:33 < Prof_Birch> although I had to manually bind /dev/pts after /dev. Might i need to do the same with /dev/shm?
07:33 < [R]> Muimi: well you could connect them with a wire...
07:33 < [R]> Muimi: lol
07:33 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: okay, that's pretty good. i guess the next step would be to actually strace fakeroot to see why it's doing what it's doing, which probably isn't easy.
07:33 < Muimi> I don't have one.
07:33 < [R]> Muimi: well, then i gues you have your answer
07:33 < ayecee> Prof_Birch: maybe, if /dev/shm is mounted from somewhere on the host OS
07:33 < Muimi> Anyway, I thought it might be difficult to transfer the files from one PC to another.
07:33 < [R]> Muimi: actaull yeah, i ont think anyone has ever done that...
07:34 < Prof_Birch> no, it doesn't look like it's used.
07:34 < Prof_Birch> mount doesn't show it as mounted
07:34 < ayecee> Muimi: if only we had the technology to transfer files from one computer to another!
07:34 < ayecee> Muimi: when will those computer scientists in their ivory towers learn
07:34 < pnbeast> If we had enough pigeons and some holes for them, we could fly the data off one machine to the holes in other one.
07:35 < Muimi> ayecee: In fact, I've had issues transfering files from OS A to OS B in the past.  Mac and Win didn't seem to work together well with network transfers.  Sometimes the Mac computer couldn't find any of the Win computers.
07:35 < ayecee> we could throw pigeons at the holes until some go through
07:36 < Prof_Birch> Android uses an in house IPC system called binder, which is why I was trying to run systemd, or at least dbus
07:36 < Prof_Birch> systemd (init) keeps giving me errors about not being pid 1
07:36 < ayecee> that's probably a warning and not an error
07:36 < Prof_Birch> "trying to run as user instance, but the system has not been booted with systemd"
07:37 < Two_Dogs> pretty sure systemd likes being pid 1
07:37 < Two_Dogs> unless it is --user
07:37 < ayecee> what are you running to get that error
07:37 < Prof_Birch> I can run as a different pid, i've been talking with them in the systemd channel
07:37 < Prof_Birch> init
07:37 < Prof_Birch> also init --user
07:37 < pnbeast> There can be only 1.  Er, 1 1.  You know, one of them.
07:37 < ayecee> there's probably an option to use to launch as a system instance
07:38 < ayecee> for the cases where init is not pid 1
07:38 < Prof_Birch> there is, init --system says "Can't run system mode unless PID 1"
07:38 < Prof_Birch> --user *should* be for non PID 1 instances
07:38 < Prof_Birch> as far as I can tell in their docs at least
07:38 < ayecee> need to dig deeper in the docs then
07:39 < ayecee> there's going to be an option to skip the pid 1 check
07:39 < ayecee> would be needed for a system where the main init was launched from an initrd.
07:39 < Prof_Birch> it says for system:      For --system, tell systemd to run a system instance, even if the process ID is not 1, i.e. systemd is not run as init process.
07:40 < ayecee> or really for any systemd in a chroot environment
07:42 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: on arch(0S)arm i would expect systemd being pid 1, yeah?
07:42 < Prof_Birch> It's not arch arm
07:42 < Prof_Birch> It's standard Arch
07:43 < Two_Dogs> even better, arch systemd process is pid 1
07:43 < Prof_Birch> but yes, Arch is a systemd distro
07:43 < Two_Dogs> not to be confused with systemd --user
07:44 < Prof_Birch> neither --user nor --system works. It says --system is to be used specifically when its not pid 1, in the man
07:44 < Prof_Birch> --user is for when systemd is pid 1
07:44 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: you saying you have a arch(distro) install where systemd is not pid 1?
07:44 < Prof_Birch> yes
07:44 < Two_Dogs> wow
07:45 < Prof_Birch> the init system is Init (but the Android one, not the normal one) and I chroot into the Arch systme
07:45 < Prof_Birch> *system
07:45 < Two_Dogs> android?
07:45 < Prof_Birch> which works fine in general for things like the xserver, pacman, etc
07:45 < Prof_Birch> yes
07:45 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: so share the whole of the pstree
07:45 < Two_Dogs> pastebin it
07:46 < Prof_Birch> I don't understand what that means
07:46 < Two_Dogs> the arch(os) one
07:46 < Prof_Birch> oh shit
07:46 < Prof_Birch> that's a lot of output
07:46 < Prof_Birch> hold on
07:46 < ayecee> if there's not an option for this version of systemd's init to accept init --system, there may be a problem
07:47 < ayecee> that should normally be accepted to run init as a system init, even if the pid isn't 1, according to your docs
07:47 < Prof_Birch> Hold on. i am going to work in the X environment of the chroot so I can copy and paste stuff
07:47 < ayecee> indeed, init shouldn't _have_ to be pid 1, in the case where it's launched from an initrd
07:48 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: you know whats simpler? setup a nice ssh server on the android and the arch(os)-arm
07:48 < ayecee> there isn't an arch(os)-arm running yet. that's the goal of this all.
07:49 < Prof_Birch> 1) it's not arm, it's normal
07:49 < ayecee> ah right, x86
07:49 < Prof_Birch> 2) it runs some stuff, like pacman, xorg, and even steam
07:49 < ayecee> android, not just for arm anymore
07:50 < Two_Dogs> steam you would think required a complete non borked arch install
07:50 < Two_Dogs> arm or otherwise
07:50 < ayecee> you'd be surprised
07:51 < ayecee> user apps are pretty tolerant of variations in the underlying system. they have to be.
07:51 < Two_Dogs> ok
07:52 < Prof_Birch> I mean, some stuff is definitely not working on it
07:52 < Prof_Birch> steam wise
07:52 < Prof_Birch> AW FUCK
07:52 < Prof_Birch> I am out of space
07:53 < ayecee> lol
07:53 < sauvin> Yeah, but mind the language.
07:53 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: you can probably do without steam if space is a premium
07:53 < Prof_Birch> yeah, true
07:54 < ayecee> blasphemy
07:54 < Prof_Birch> it was only 2 megs
07:59 < Prof_Birch> the root of the ps tree is Init and Binder
07:59 < sauvin> Heh. Well, I can report that Manjaro is a joke.
08:00 < ayecee> is it a funny joke?
08:00 < sauvin> I wasn't laughing.
08:00 < ayecee> strange. maybe it wasn't a joke.
08:01 < KernelBloomer> ubuntu fonts are crisp. wish some one has contributed to linux world as much as canonical did (atleast in GUI sector)
08:01 < sauvin> Its package manager can't manage packages.
08:02 < ayecee> embarrassing!
08:02 < sauvin> And oh, look, forum.manjaro.org is broken.
08:02  * sauvin chucks the VM into the trash
08:03 < [R]> KernelBloomer: what magic do you think canonical did with fonts?
08:03 < KernelBloomer> lol
08:03 < Two_Dogs> perhaps forum.manjaro does alot of maint on the weekends?
08:03 < KernelBloomer> [R], I dont know. I tried all fonts but canonical fonts are the crispiest in linux world (macOS fonts rendering is even better)
08:03 < [R]> "canonical fonts"?
08:03 < pnbeast> KernelBloomer, I have the chart right in front of me.  Ubuntu fonts only rate 17.4 on the International Crispness Scale (ICS).  Gentoo comes in at 23.92, almost a perfect 24, but you have to compile the fonts yourself to get that.
08:04 < pnbeast> Now, sure, your kalis, your arches, your fedoras, they're around ICS 10 or 12, but ubuntu is not the best.
08:04 < KernelBloomer> [R], ubuntu fonts*
08:04 < sauvin> Mind you, that means setting user flags and whatnot, doing the ./configure, make, make test and make install thing and hoping you don't have to apply a crapload of patches.
08:04 < [R]> "ubuntu fonts"?
08:04 < Two_Dogs> sauvin: give tumblweed a spin, its sort of like manjaro, except that tw works
08:04 < KernelBloomer> pnbeast, yea compiling is not something every day to day user wants
08:05 < sauvin> Never even HEARD of Tumbleweed.
08:05 < Two_Dogs> s/l/le
08:05 < KernelBloomer> pnbeast, does the chart scale macOS fonts? they must be at top number 1
08:05 < pnbeast> If you want that true font crispiness, you have to compile for your architecture with the right use flags, KernelBloomer.
08:05 < Prof_Birch> Here is my pstree https://github.com/Tadashi-Hikari/Dex-OS/blob/master/tree.null
08:05 < KernelBloomer> pnbeast, any decent guide on that?
08:05 < KernelBloomer> arch linux fonts are the worse
08:05 < pnbeast> [R], I can't tell, is he screwing back with me?
08:06 < KernelBloomer> shame on arch linux developers for being ultra lazy.
08:06 < Prof_Birch> KernelBloomer: What's wrong with arch linux fonts
08:06 < [R]> pnbeast: i've given up on the nonsense...
08:06 < Prof_Birch> KernelBloomer: just "pacman -Syu ttf-dejavu"
08:06 < KernelBloomer> Prof_Birch, worse rendering I have ever seen
08:06 < KernelBloomer> Prof_Birch, have it installed
08:06 < sauvin> Manjaro go byebye with extreme prejudice
08:07  * pnbeast writes a card for his mother.
08:07 < Two_Dogs> Tumbleweed https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Tumbleweed sauvin
08:07 < pnbeast> sauvin, uh, how were the fonts?
08:07 < pnbeast> I'm asking for a friend.
08:07 < KernelBloomer> tumbleweed is the buggy and wannabe arch linux lol. with a decent installer thou
08:07 < sauvin> Didn't pay any attention. Seemed clear enough, but I didn't bother compiling any.
08:07 < [R]> pnbeast: i got mine licorice
08:07 < [R]> pnbeast: although now that i think about it... i should have gotten 2, so i could eat one now
08:08 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: the android tree, yes
08:08 < pnbeast> [R], I can honestly say that that is not something I'd ever considered.  You are a generous son.
08:08 < [R]> pnbeast: its b een a joke since like i was in high school
08:08 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: I posted it
08:08 < KernelBloomer> sauvin, you on windows 10?
08:10 < sauvin> o.O
08:10 < pnbeast> http://licoricelover.blogspot.com/2011/04/licorice-gifts-for-mothers-day.html
08:11 < [R]> wtf
08:11 < [R]> someone stole my idea!?
08:11  * [R] sues the pants off them
08:12 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: https://github.com/Tadashi-Hikari/Dex-OS/blob/master/tree.null
08:13 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: yes, saw it, a very nice android pstree
08:13 < Prof_Birch> Was there something else you were looking for?
08:14 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: some sign of arch besides the sdcard mention
08:15 < Prof_Birch> That's pstree run from inside the chroot
08:15 < Two_Dogs> that pstree is android tree
08:15 < Some1NamedNate> I wanna test a program after compilation
08:15 < Prof_Birch> No, refresh the page. That pstree is from Android
08:15 < [R]> Some1NamedNate: so run it
08:16 < Some1NamedNate> Feels uncomfortable to overwrite an existing installation after "make install"
08:16 < Some1NamedNate> I wanna run it within the source tree
08:16 < [R]> Some1NamedNate: so run it
08:16 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: you have the link for pstree of arch(OS)-arm/x86?
08:17 < Prof_Birch> Again, it's not arm, it's x86. and the original file was pstree inside the chroot. I don't know how I could get anymore inside of arch
08:17 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: you have the link for pstree of arch(OS)-x86?
08:18 < Prof_Birch> You're asking me to run pstree inside the arch(OS) chroot?
08:18 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: yes
08:18 < pnbeast> Some1NamedNate, usually, you can run a compiled program from the work directory where you compiled it.  And also, many times, you can specify a target directory for the install, so that you need not overwrite an existing version.
08:19 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: pls use 'pstree -nsupa'
08:20 < jim> Two_Dogs, please expand pls :)
08:20 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: https://github.com/Tadashi-Hikari/Dex-OS/blob/master/tree2.null
08:21 < Two_Dogs> jim: Prof_Birch is executing pstree on arch
08:21 < Some1NamedNate> pnbeast, say i just compiled gnu nano from /home/foo/buildenv/nano-x.y.z/
08:21 < Prof_Birch> that is what I get from inside the arch chroot
08:21 < pnbeast> Some1NamedNate, i just compiled gnu nano from <some path>.
08:22 < jim> Two_Dogs. oh, sorry, miscommunication... I meant, for example, please spell out u as you, it helps people (particularly new english speakers) to understand, at least, most of what's going on
08:22 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: you are showing the pstree of android system, you have done so now 3 times
08:22 < Prof_Birch> It's from inside the arch chroot, as specified.
08:22 < Prof_Birch> I can't help the output
08:22 < jim> for this case, please spell out pls as please :)
08:22 < Some1NamedNate> pnbeast, for example* i just compiled gnu nano from /home/foo/buildenv/nano-x.y.z/
08:22 < pnbeast> You would be hard pressed to find a new English speaker who doesn't use "u" more often than "you" in typed communication.  jim.
08:23 < jim> it's true... and I know it's a hard habit to break
08:23 < Two_Dogs> jim: mine angles is not gut, u xkuze plz
08:23 < Some1NamedNate> how do i specify the target dir to be /path/to/nano-test/ ?
08:23 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: I chroot into the arch distro (chroot . /bin/bash") and run pstree. That is the result
08:24 < Psi-Jack> pnbeast: I know one. She lives with me. My own wife.
08:24 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: wow, the result is android process tree
08:24 < pnbeast> Some1NamedNate, with a GNU tarball?  I'm sure it uses autoconf, so during the "configure" stage, you'll want to specify it.
08:24 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: I don't know what to tell you
08:24 < sauvin> Two_Dogs, use proper English.
08:24 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: I have done as I was told
08:24 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: some people vi on android terminal, i nano, just because if i can nano on linux i am gonna nano on android too
08:24 < jim> Two_Dogs, just so you know, there;s a channel policy, and I feel the ops getting restless...
08:24 < pnbeast> Psi-Jack, you have precisely *zero* ground to criticize the English of others, here.  Yours is not good.
08:25 < sauvin> Some1NamedNate, did you do the ./configure thing?
08:25 < Psi-Jack> Excuse me? heh
08:25 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: what output were you expecting, and how would you propose I get it
08:25 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: i ont know how you keep getting android process tree
08:25 < Some1NamedNate> i just fetch the tarball
08:25 < Some1NamedNate> extracting now
08:26 < Prof_Birch> perhaps its an issue with busyboxs chroot
08:26 < sauvin> Some1NamedNate, if you're going to build from a tarball, the target is probably already set to /usr/local.
08:26 < Two_Dogs> jim: what policy am i breaking exactly? provide a sample would you, i am missing something here
08:27 < pnbeast> Some1NamedNate, I'm also about 90% sure that a GNU package will have compilation instructions, and if you read them, you'll run into advice on using "configure".  Is that not the case?
08:27 < jim> Two_Dogs, sec, trying to fix something
08:27 < [R]> pnbeast: LIES
08:28 < jim> there
08:28 < pnbeast> Two_Dogs, just give it up.  The ops here are nearly prototypical "old white men" and their mission, here, is making sure "proper English" is what we speak.  They go nuts when you type "u" or "pls" or anything like that.
08:28 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: I don't know what I could do differently. Perhaps this speaks to the underlying issue I am encountering
08:28 < Two_Dogs> jim: that was not mine
08:28 < sauvin> Two_Dogs: https://freenode.linux.community/channel-rules/
08:28 < jim> Two_Dogs, the pls thing
08:28 < Two_Dogs> pls?
08:28 < Two_Dogs> what pls thing?
08:29 < pnbeast> Or, yeah, you could troll 'em!
08:29 < jim> here;s what I was commenting on earlier: <Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: pls use 'pstree -nsupa'
08:29 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: I run dbus-daemon, it descends from init in the process tree
08:30 < Two_Dogs> jim: ok, so dont shorten words as much as possible, got it
08:31 < Prof_Birch> Is the unexpected pstree output possibly from the init system?
08:31 < sauvin> Actually, use standard English.
08:31 < pnbeast> sauvin, whose standard?  Yours, I imagine.
08:32 < Psi-Jack> pnbeast: You've been going on about this for weeks now. You should stop.
08:32 < pnbeast> Psi-Jack, weeks?  Years.
08:32 < Two_Dogs> Prof_Birch: i fear my english is lacking and i am going to retire to the corner for now so i may take in some usage of proper english, i apologize
08:32 < Psi-Jack> Get over it.
08:32 < jim> Two_Dogs, yeah, also you should probably review https://freenode.linux.community/channel-rules/
08:32 < Prof_Birch> Two_Dogs: Your english hasn't bothered me
08:33 < jim> Two_Dogs, just so you know, and, enjoy your stay
08:33 < Two_Dogs> jim: something there besides words should be completely spelled out?
08:33 < well_laid_lawn> the rules were just now
08:33 < pnbeast> Psi-Jack, it's annoying enough from the ops.  When you, with your broken English, start, it's nearly laughable.
08:33 < Some1NamedNate> pnbeast, i just tan "--configure --prefix=/path/to/nano-test". does that work as specifying a test env for nano?
08:33 < Some1NamedNate> ran*
08:34 < pnbeast> Some1NamedNate, uh, the initial two hyphens look odd.
08:34 < jim> not necessarily, but it's gonna be good to know what the rules are, I think that's the current problem
08:34 < Psi-Jack> *MY* broken English? Umm, yeah, sure, okay..
08:34 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, he's not joking.
08:34 < Some1NamedNate> pnbeast, I meant "./configure --prefix=/path/to/nano-test"
08:35 < pnbeast> Some1NamedNate, that looks normal/correct for autoconf things, yes.
08:35 < sauvin> Does that tarball also include libs or shared objects to build?
08:36 < pnbeast> It seems unlikely nano would.  But I don't really know.
08:36 < Some1NamedNate> pnbeast, and by running "make install" after compilation, does it actually install to the test env?
08:36 < sauvin> Seems unlikely to me, too, but it's something of a red flag. Installing to some odd directory is fine if you don't mind playing with PATH, but shared objects and suchlike involve other games to play.
08:37 < sauvin> Some1NamedNate, yes.
08:37  * Some1NamedNate crosses fingers
08:37 < pnbeast> Some1NamedNate, try it.  Use /tmp/nano as your target, so you don't break anything.  And run "make install" as a user, not as root, to avoid breaking things accidentally.
08:37 < jim> Two_Dogs, I just wanted to make sure you have a way to quickly know, that way you can take whatever action you need to, to keep the ops at bay and keep you welcome, getting along with folks and such. I don't necessarily see any problems with that right now, but now you can prevent them if you want
08:37 < sauvin> Know what? I'm going to remember what pnbeast just suggested.
08:38 < Some1NamedNate> pnbeast, you mean "./configure --prefix=/tmp/nano"?
08:39 < jim> pnbeast, and you can do that if you set the --prefix to /tmp or to somewhere in your home dir
08:39 < pnbeast> Some1NamedNate, yes.  Do something like "mkdir /tmp/nano && ./configure --prefix=/tmp/nano && make && make install"
08:39 < jim> then you don't have to "make install" as root
08:39 < Some1NamedNate> pnbeast, oooooooooooooh
08:40 < pnbeast> Some1NamedNate, out of curiosity, why are you compiling nano?  Doesn't your distro package it?
08:41 < Some1NamedNate> it does
08:41 < Some1NamedNate> i just wanna test the latest ver
08:41 < sauvin> Nano has "versions"?
08:41 < jim> Two_Dogs, and, so you know, I'm not pissed or anything at the moment, so there's not a problem from my end
08:41 < Some1NamedNate> current is 2.7.4 on debian/raspbian
08:41 < pnbeast> I can understand.  I wait and wait for new nano releases and it's like Christmas, every time.
08:41 < Two_Dogs> jim: hate to get you pissed
08:42 < Two_Dogs> you seem to be the fucking word police
08:42 < sauvin> Eh, just give him a couple of pints and a couple of fifths, and he's good to go.
08:42 < sauvin> Two_Dogs, mind the language. Did you not read the rules?
08:42 < Two_Dogs> pls dont shot me officer
08:42 < jim> oh, and, please watch the language :)
08:42  * pnbeast senses a shift in tone.
08:43 < sauvin> Just what the world needs. Another lawyer.
08:44 < jim> Two_Dogs, I was trying to be nice, to make sure you were informed...
08:44 < Some1NamedNate> it works! thx, pnbeast
08:44 < sauvin> That would be "thanks", Some1NamedNate. :D
08:44 < mpmc> And.. breathe..
08:44 < Some1NamedNate> yep...
08:45 < pnbeast> ,next  <-- still doesn't work.
08:45 < sauvin> Some1NamedNate, did you have any trouble running it once you got it built?
08:45 < Some1NamedNate> phew
08:45 < Some1NamedNate> suavin, seems to be running fine
08:45 < Some1NamedNate> i used "--prefix=/tmp/nano"
08:45 < sauvin> Didn't figure something as simple as nano would give any surprises, but you never kow.
08:45 < sauvin> know, even.
08:46 < jim> Two_Dogs, when you calm down a bit, maybe you should visit ##linux-ops
08:46 < jim> that's up to you though
08:55 < ayecee> and he was never heard from again
09:32  * sauvin installs mageia just to have a look
09:38 < iflema> just read the wiki if you use nvidia
09:40 < sauvin> It's in a VM, so, not too worried.
09:40 < sauvin> If I don't like it, it'll go into the trash bin right next to manjaro.
09:41 < iflema> just do it now...
09:43 < rindolf> sauvin: good luck with that
09:43 < rindolf> sauvin: i am using mga here
09:44 < sauvin> What's "mga"?
09:44 < iflema> frozen in time?
09:45 < iflema> my old favorite... after a few dramas
09:46 < rindolf> sauvin: mga is mageia
09:46 < sauvin> Mmkay, so, say so.
09:47 < iflema> he did
09:47 < iflema> she?
09:47 < iflema> it!
09:48 < sauvin> He/she/it. Say it three times, really, really fast.
09:49 < iflema> pretty much
09:49  * iflema nasty
09:50 < iflema> I should go again I installed 6 day 1
09:50 < iflema> but... eh
09:51 < iflema> i want use it
09:51 < iflema> lol
09:53 < rindolf> iflema: he
09:54 < iflema> rindolf: yeah i was right the first time and i got that right too ;)
10:20 < stevendale> Hey
10:31 < jim> hi
10:59 < JimBuntu> Super Sunday Morning to you jim
11:02 < pingfloyd> it's dead jim!
11:03 < JimBuntu> pingfloyd, partly-dead, mostly-dead or all the way dead?
11:03 < JimBuntu> "Now, mostly dead is slightly alive. Now, all dead, well, with all dead, there's usually only one thing that you can do. Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change."
11:05 < madan> my umask is 0022, i have login as root and create a python file , but it is not excutable by default
11:06 < madan> why?
11:06 < pingfloyd> because that's exactly what a umask of 22 does
11:06 < pingfloyd> (subtracts executable bits)
11:06 < JimBuntu> madan, normally, files aren't created as executable by default.
11:06 < pingfloyd> except for owner there
11:07 < oleo> where do you specify umask ?
11:07 < oleo> in .profile and /etc/profile ?
11:07 < pingfloyd> it's a very bad security practice to have anything executable by default
11:07 < JimBuntu> ^^
11:07 < pingfloyd> what next? putting . in your PATH?
11:08 < JimBuntu> lol
11:08 < madan> So how I make a excutable file when i am creating file from vim editor
11:08 < pingfloyd> with chmod
11:08 < oleo> chmod u+x file
11:08 < oleo> or ug+x
11:08 < JimBuntu> madan, I would suggest that after creating it, chmod +x it... or call python directly, as in `python /path/to/python/file.py`
11:08 < oleo> or ugo+x
11:08 < oleo> or a+x
11:09 < oleo> u== user , g == group , o == others
11:09 < oleo> a == all
11:09 < JimBuntu> madan, are you at least using a shebang such as `#!/usr/bin/env python` ?
11:09 < madan> i want to know using umask, make the file excuatable while creating
11:10 < oleo> 0055 probably
11:10 < pingfloyd> or use the octal format
11:10 < madan> ok
11:10 < jim> JimBuntu, thanks :)
11:10 < oleo> or 66 ?
11:10 < oleo> err
11:10 < jim> pingfloyd, :P
11:12 < madan> any cron job for the spcific folder to make all file are excutable .....
11:12 < pingfloyd> you don't want to do that
11:12 < JimBuntu> heresy
11:13 < pingfloyd> make files executable on a needed basis instead
11:13 < JimBuntu> madan, you could `chmod +x -R .`  manually ( or womanually, if you prefer)
11:14 < madan> ok
11:14 < JimBuntu> pingfloyd, I know it's bad mojo, but it resolves the question with the least damage I could think of
11:15 < pingfloyd> if you need recursive, you would be better off going through find
11:15 < madan> i am keep on creating a python files on the spcific folder, so the permssion has been inherit from the folder?
11:15 < jim> hmm, termbin.com not responding to pings
11:15 < pingfloyd> that way you only chmod the files and leave the directories alone
11:15 < JimBuntu> find . -iname "*.py" -exec chmod +x {} \;
11:16 < pingfloyd> yeah something along those lines
11:16 < madan> or i need to excute a chmod +x -R command again and again
11:16 < oleo> -R is recursive
11:16 < madan> find . -iname "*.py" -exec chmod +x {} \ = chmod +x -R
11:17 < jim> just be careful of any command that alters files that has -R
11:17 < pingfloyd> madan: there's a difference
11:17 < JimBuntu> madan, != since the *.py will only happen on .py files
11:17 < oleo> there's -r and -R
11:17 < oleo> -r is flat recursive i think, and -R is deep recursive
11:17 < pingfloyd> add in -type f
11:18 < JimBuntu> pingfloyd, do you suspect they have directories that end in ".py" ?
11:18 < wadadli> didn't a chmod recursive option only operate on directories?
11:18 < mouses> wadadli: no, it also operates on files
11:18 < wadadli> isn't there*
11:18 < JimBuntu> wadadli, no, it will operate on files within them too
11:18 < pingfloyd> find . -type f -name "*.py" -exec chmod ug+x {} \;
11:18 < oleo> add a sudo
11:18 < oleo> lol
11:18 < oleo> if need be
11:18 < JimBuntu> kek
11:19 < oleo> on the beginning of find sudo find ......
11:19 < madan> no matter what file type, when i create a file be in 755 permission
11:19 < pingfloyd> execute bit has a completely different meaning on directories than on files
11:19 < JimBuntu> We are giving out some of the worst help I have seen in a while... might as well passwd to "secret" while we are at it
11:19 < pingfloyd> it allows traversal
11:19 < oleo> if a directory has no execute flag you can't even see it's contents via ls
11:19 < jim> wadadli, the recursive part only recurses on dirs, but the chmod command is applied to all files and dirs in each dir it visits
11:19 < oleo> neither change into it
11:20 < madan> how would i achive this task
11:20 < madan> ?
11:20 < pingfloyd> this sounds like a big xyproblem
11:20 < JimBuntu> madan, I don't think umask allows for any mod setting above 666
11:20 < wadadli> can't remember which I used, there's a question on famous cert exams, that requires one to change only the directories to be o+x and there's a command that does this only on directories.
11:20  * wadadli has forgotten lol
11:21 < pingfloyd> so you need to just change perms on directories?
11:21 < hexnewbie> madan: Why do you want the .py files to have the executable bit set?
11:22 < wadadli> pingfloyd ▸ oleo does I believe.
11:22 < wadadli> oh wait no. he's in need of a script to change chown .py files?
11:22 < wadadli> I believe one was supplied.
11:23 < madan> i need py files are run staright away with out issuing chmod +x somefile.py
11:23 < JimBuntu> madan, than you should call them with python, instead of relying on the shebang ( imho )
11:23 < hexnewbie> madan: In a high number of cases they *do*, which is why the question is: why are you wanting to add it, and what are you actually doing?
11:24 < madan> you mean #python somefile.py
11:24 < JimBuntu> madan, yes
11:24 < madan> ok
11:24 < hexnewbie> madan: Or when the Python file is a module (i.e. the huge majority of them), and it gets imported.
11:24 < oleo> my-python = $(which python)
11:24 < oleo> my-python somefile.py
11:25 < JimBuntu> oleo, why make the command longer?
11:25 < hexnewbie> madan: I've rarely had more than 2-3 executable Python files per Python project, I still have Python projects with no executable files.
11:25 < oleo> which gets the absolute path of the python compiler/interpreter
11:25 < JimBuntu> If you can `which python`, then `python` is in the path (or the bash cache of hashes) and you can simply `python file.py`
11:25 < pingfloyd> yeah, from your PATH
11:25 < pingfloyd> pretty superfluous
11:26  * wadadli doesn't know any python
11:26 < pingfloyd> wadadli: we already knew that
11:26 < JimBuntu> wadadli, `print "Hello World"`  <-- now you know some.
11:26 < wadadli> pingfloyd ▸ =P how? :o
11:27 < pingfloyd> because you would have known about 'python file.py'
11:27 < wadadli> but I do know that
11:28 < hexnewbie> madan: Talking about projects with hundreds of .py files, only 2-3 need to be executable. Why aren't those marked as executable in your git repo, so that they get the permissions automatically on git pull?
11:28  * wadadli leaves pingfloyd alone.
11:28 < pingfloyd> principle of least privilege
11:28 < pingfloyd> learn it, live it, love it
11:28 < wadadli> o_o
11:29 < madan> forget about the python , when i create a any file , permission come with 755 , # touch somefile
11:29 < madan> how would i achive this ?
11:29 < wadadli> set your umask for the session.
11:30 < JimBuntu> wadadli, can umask be set in a way that files get 7 at all?
11:30 < hexnewbie> madan: Given that executable files are the rare case, it ought to be given explicitly to avoid making non-executable files executable (which could and *is* a security risk)
11:30 < JimBuntu> you can surely 011 for 655, but 755?
11:30 < madan> my umask is 0022
11:30 < hexnewbie> madan: I mean, one of the advantage security-wise of *nix over DOS/Windows is that you need to explicitly mark executable files (vs. naming it .bat and causing havoc)
11:32 < hexnewbie> (Not that .desktop/.kdelink files haven't been sort of insecure back in the day)
11:32 < pingfloyd> windows executable by default mentality is such hole for exploitation
11:32 < pingfloyd> it exploits one of the best vectors--the user
11:32 < JimBuntu> madan, please try `chmod g+rwxs /path/to/dir/with/py/files`
11:32 < wadadli> JimBuntu ▸ no clue, never had a reason to. try umask a+rwx or 000
11:34 < JimBuntu> wadadli, it's my understanding that umask on files is based on subtracting from 666. This means that you can't get a 7 value, since umask doesn't accept negative numbers. I could totally be wrong
11:34 < pingfloyd> for files its from 666 and dirs 777
11:34 < JimBuntu> setfacl -dm u::rwx,g::rwx,o::rwx /path/to/dir/with/py/files   ?
11:34 < space_race> When in doubt, here is the best command hahaahahaha, chmod -R 777 /
11:35 < pingfloyd> and it's designed that way for a reason-authors think about security implications
11:36 < JimBuntu> I get it pingfloyd, I really do. While I dislike having to set certain files for +x, I have never wanted all files to be +x by default
11:36 < hexnewbie> space_race: Have a customer who has this in cron. Had it on * * * * *, and was asking why his computer was crazy slow (with 20-30 concurrent chmod processes running)
11:36 < JimBuntu> hexnewbie, hilarious
11:37 < pingfloyd> hexnewbie: was that customer name space_race by chance?
11:37 < wadadli> right 666 for files and 777 for files
11:37 < space_race> hexnewbie: how did it get there in the first place though
11:37 < wadadli> dirs*
11:37 < hexnewbie> pingfloyd: Never knew their IRC persona
11:39 < pingfloyd> we had people in here trying to save their system from doing chmod -R 777 /
11:39 < pingfloyd> they find out the hard way that some important programs won't work with those perms in certain hierarchies
11:40 < JimBuntu> execute all the things
11:40 < wadadli> lol
11:40 < stevendale> I am bored
11:40 < hexnewbie> I had SSH refuse to allow connection because the host key was world-readable (or some such), so I wiped the key and made a new one.
11:41 < stevendale> I just booted MS-DOS 7.1 and made 20 partitions
11:41 < wadadli> hexnewbie ▸ hm.
11:41 < stevendale> 1 primary, 1 extended, 18 logical
11:41 < wadadli> stevendale ▸ congrats you're now a MCSA.
11:41 < JimBuntu> sudo chown -R $(whoami):$(whoami) / ?
11:42 < hexnewbie> stevendale: Now repeat in dosemu
11:42 < JimBuntu> ^^ joke intended for pingfloyd hexnewbie wadadli
11:42 < sauvin> space_race, a 'chmod -R 777 /' is a destructive command. Never suggest it again.
11:42 < JimBuntu> hexnewbie, seriously?
11:43 < space_race> sauvin: That was a joke, dont you need sudo to change root files anyway?
11:43 < sauvin> JimBuntu, seriously. The ~/.ssh directory and its files (I believe) *have* to have particular permissions set or ssh will refuse them.
11:43 < JimBuntu> hexnewbie, Oh, I see what you were talking about
11:43 < JimBuntu> sauvin, I am well aware of this
11:44 < JimBuntu> sauvin, yes, the keys should only be user readable/etc
11:44 < sauvin> space_race, that's true of sane dists. Not all dists are sane.
11:45 < JimBuntu> space_race, believe it or not, some people log in as root <yikes!>
11:45 < stevendale> sauvin Puppy Linux
11:45 < sauvin> And some distros don't even *have* user accounts. Kali, for example.
11:46 < hexnewbie> space_race: Even if you aren't root (which a person may easily be administrating a server, sudo is an Ubuntu thing), that *will* change permissions on all your user account files, including lock you out of your server if you use public key auth and that's your only admin account
11:46 < JimBuntu> sauvin, Kali isn't that bad... check out droplets from Digital Ocean... where even Ubuntu starts you off with "root", smh
11:46 < sauvin> What's "smh"?
11:46 < JimBuntu> Shaking My Heada - Sorry for the textspeak
11:46 < stevendale> Suck my head
11:47 < space_race> hexnewbie: wow TIL
11:47 < sauvin> Welp, looks like Mageia is also garbage.
11:48 < hexnewbie> Garbage in what way? (although it's my general feeling towards software, especially new one :) )
11:50 < sauvin> Garbage because its screen saver is broken, so when it kicks in, you have to drop to a VC to issue some command to turn it off. A real laugh riot in a VM.
11:50 < sauvin> Sent it a shutdown signal, waited a few minutes, powered it down, fired it up and now it won't boot.
11:51 < sauvin> Mageia go into the trash bucket right next to manjaro.
11:51 < hexnewbie> I'm almost willing to put money that's a KDE bug.
11:52 < hexnewbie> Er, I mean, feature
11:52 < sauvin> Possibly, except, I've been running KDE for years and years and have never seen this before.
11:53 < hexnewbie> Me neither, but I've seen KDE locking/screensaver misbehave (particularly, in KDE 4 adding a clock widget to the lock screen made it impossible to unlock for me). With the upgrade to Plasma 5, the screensavers are now gone and it's only lock screen. If they implemented screensavers again, I fear what bugs that brought with it :)
11:54 < hexnewbie> I feel like the KDE releases I've used are random repo snapshots, so depending I expect excitement with each one ;)
12:27 < sphalerite> I know it's possible to embed an initrd in a kernel during a kernel build. Is it also possible to do this after the fact with an arbitrary kernel image?
12:30 < fddsafsd> I saw this photo with linus and his middle finger
12:30 < fddsafsd> that was fantastic
12:30 < fddsafsd> reddit is fun
12:30 < Sveta> yes, it kills time very easily
12:31 < fddsafsd> I dont want to kill time
12:31 < fddsafsd> what should I do
12:31 < fddsafsd> port mac devices and external touchpad drivers so we have something functional maybe..
12:33 < pingfloyd> fddsafsd: he was giving it to nvidia
12:34 < sazawal> I am not sure if this is the right channel, but I have a small question. I want to extract all the thumbnails of the image files in a particular folder. I am trying with exiftool but it is not working. Can anyone help?
12:34 < fddsafsd> why
12:34 < pingfloyd> because of their shenanigans
12:34 < fddsafsd> nvidia is homosexual
12:34 < revel> Because apparently it's the worst company they've ever worked with.
12:38 < brunch875> Brr! Spent these last days wrapping my head on how to disable vsync, since all settings semt to get ignored
12:38 < brunch875> turns out the "vsync judder" was caused by the compositor itself, even with vsync actually off
12:39 < brunch875> disabling the compositor (along with vsync) did the trick
12:39 < erro_r73> hello
12:39 < brunch875> hello erro_r73
12:40 < erro_r73> someone already tried a tweak for increase network speed on linux ?
12:40 < erro_r73> :D
12:42 < brunch875> beyond pysical capabilities?
12:47 < pingfloyd> what?
12:51 < generalusername> hello
12:51 < generalusername> can someone please explain to me what the fark is going on with Gnome?
12:51 < generalusername> Is it really run a bunch of morons or sabotaged to undermine Linux on Desktop?
12:52 < generalusername> The amount of stupid change is just unbelievable.
12:53 < MrElendig> generalusername: your trolling is weak
12:53 < generalusername> MrElendig: no, seriously.
12:53 < MrElendig> come back when you have improved it
12:53 < generalusername> Every time I upgrade Gnome I have to wonder what kind of moron things this change is good in anyway?
12:53 < generalusername> moron thinks*
12:53 < MrElendig> don't use gnome then, problem solved
12:54 < generalusername> MrElendig: Consider full text search vs typeahead.
12:54 < MrElendig> or start to contribute to stear it in a direction you want
12:54 < generalusername> Anyone who is using a computer more than a music player uses type ahead, even my fucking grandma uses typeahead.
12:54 < generalusername> Then comes some moron who thinks burning all the cpu cycles, wasting power and battery, to shove full text global search every is a good idea.
12:54 < generalusername> And then removes the option to switch back to type-ahead.
12:55 < generalusername> That is utter rubbish.
12:55 < brunch875> What is typeahead, if I may ask?
12:55 < generalusername> MrElendig: Please stop with your stupid arguments.
12:55 < generalusername> brunch875: it is that if you're looking for a file named 'foo-bar-long
12:55 < generalusername> you type foo and it will jump to the first file starting with foo
12:55 < generalusername> you can keep tying to find the exact file or directory
12:56 < generalusername> it is extremely useful when opening files or directories in large lists.
12:56 < brunch875> oh, so like a dynamic filter
12:56 < generalusername> not exactly
12:56 < generalusername> but very similar
12:56 < generalusername> brunch875: what do you run?
12:56 < brunch875> I used to rub my face all over unity, but then the project died
12:56 < brunch875> so I hopped to gnome3
12:57 < brunch875> all was good but annoyance after annoyance made me hop to KDE
12:57 < brunch875> just now
12:57  * sauvin uses KDE and so can't comment
12:57 < brunch875> I'm giving out manjaro a try
12:57 < sauvin> Just did that a few hours ago and trashed it. Its package manager can't manage packags.
12:57 < brunch875> the installer sort of... failed but what I'm getting I like so far
12:57 < sauvin> Packages, even.
12:57 < generalusername> i am considering kde too
12:57 < generalusername> just too many stupid changes
12:57 < generalusername> the new control panel is also fucking dumb
12:58 < sauvin> Mind the language.
12:58 < brunch875> I didn't like KDE because I felt like functionality needed a lot of customization
12:58 < generalusername> so they take something that is similar to Windows, Mac, and Linux users all alike, and turn it into a tasteless piece of shit.
12:58 < brunch875> but it seems like the current KDE is pretty well out of the box
12:58 < sauvin> Mind the language.
12:58 < generalusername> And then you get some whacko like MrElendig telling me I should use something else if there is a problem with morons killing gnome.
12:58 < brunch875> Now there, don't take it personal
12:59 < generalusername> Sorry.
12:59 < generalusername> I am just very frustrated.
12:59 < brunch875> Keep in mind a lot of people come here to troll
12:59 < generalusername> every upgrade seems to be like a fight
12:59 < brunch875> elendig's response was fine
12:59 < generalusername> i have invested many hours into setting up a decent desktop
12:59 < generalusername> so telling me to go else where is not nice.
12:59 < brunch875> I'd prompt you to try out KDE
12:59 < SuperSeriousCat> If you dont like it, dont use it. Its that simple
12:59 < sauvin> I had a similar problem. Gnome sucked. I tried KDE, liked it a lot better, problem solved.
12:59 < brunch875> I'm really liking it so far
12:59 < generalusername> I just want to know how would a sane person consider these changes reasonable?
13:00 < brunch875> Well, see vertical sync for instance
13:00 < MrElendig> generalusername: you ignored the second half
13:00 < MrElendig> the bit about contributing
13:00 < generalusername> I am genuinely as flabbergasted as pissed off at these changes.
13:00 < python476> twisted question, anybody ever installed windows on a physical hdd through a VM running on a linux live iso ?
13:00 < generalusername> They're so stupid it can't be natural.
13:00 < MrElendig> python476: works fine
13:00 < python476> I could test myself, but i can ask before
13:00 < brunch875> there's "how to prevent screen tearing" all over the place
13:00 < python476> MrElendig: thanks
13:00 < brunch875> and vsync is just one thing I can't stand
13:00 < generalusername> MrElendig: You see, "don't change what is working" is not contribution. Do you see the logic in that?
13:01 < sklv> working is subjective and a scale
13:01 < generalusername> yes
13:01 < brunch875> to be honest I really like gnome3
13:01 < generalusername> but change should be measured and sufficiently better to warrant the churn.
13:01 < jim> which dist are you running?
13:01 < sauvin> I, on the other hand, have never met a Gnome I actually liked.
13:02 < generalusername> sklv: Can you tell me how a global full text search is in anyway better than typeahead?
13:02 < MrElendig> generalusername: ranting on random irc channels achieves nothing, contribuing to the development discussions on their ml/irc channel on the other hand might
13:02 < generalusername> sklv: can you tell me not being able to type the exact location you want to navigate to is in anyway better?
13:02 < sklv> no and no becauase i'm not a gnome user. you are free to fork it and make your changes
13:02 < sklv> or just customise it to how you want
13:03 < MrElendig> worked for mate
13:03 < MrElendig> ^
13:03 < jim> generalusername, which dist are you running?
13:03 < generalusername> sklv: can you tell me changing Control Center from the "de facto" control-panel design that is used in all major operatin system is better?
13:03 < generalusername> so many can you tell me.
13:03 < SuperSeriousCat> Where do you type things to navigate?
13:03 < MrElendig> generalusername: uhm
13:03 < generalusername> jim: arch.
13:03 < MrElendig> generalusername: eg windows just massively changed how it looks and behaves with 8 and 10
13:03 < jim> oh ok, I dunno much about arch
13:03 < generalusername> Telling me to go use something else is a stupid argument.
13:03 < generalusername> Please stop it.
13:03 < generalusername> it makes you look dumb.
13:04 < sklv> that's not what you're being told... so uh yea i'm going to stop responding to you
13:04 < sauvin> generalusername, you have a choice, and you're being a child about it.
13:04 < generalusername> MrElendig: No, the original control panel is still there if you want it.
13:04 < MrElendig> generalusername: not really
13:04 < jim> I wouldn't be able to tell you why the upgrade process was so problematic
13:04 < generalusername> MrElendig: You see, Gnome is keeping removing functionality without providing a decent alternative.
13:04 < MrElendig> (and yes I do use windows)
13:04 < pingfloyd> generalusername: gnome's developer don't have much common sense
13:04 < noodlepie> I like GNOME. KDE is useful also but I'm a GNUer. Emacs and Screen! Xargs and emerge / Gentoo.ORG, and maybe Debian.org for older machines due to prebuilt packages. The level of customization Gentoo gives you is phenominal and you can fully optimize your system building packages from source. All my ffmpeg etc have SSE4_2 support!
13:04 < generalusername> MrElendig: Yes really, don't be dumb. I just used it like 3-4 hours ago on a surface.
13:05 < sauvin> A "surface"?
13:05 < pingfloyd> generalusername: I tend to use the typeahead in all OSes and DEs
13:05 < generalusername> jim: it is not about the upgrade, it is the constant churn in Gnome, it is constantly breaking things that work, and introducing half new design in the name of "Improvement"
13:05 < pingfloyd> screw manually hunting for the desktop file
13:05 < pingfloyd> in the application menu
13:05 < generalusername> pingfloyd: Exactly. Everyone uses it. It is so dumb to remove it that I just can't comprehend it.
13:05 < pingfloyd> generalusername: I use in windows and in xfce (via dmenu).
13:06 < generalusername> I use it everywhere.
13:06 < pingfloyd> one of the things that makes windows a little more bearable
13:06 < generalusername> until some moron decided that I should instead burn cpu cycles and drain my battery with global full text search everytime I am looking for a file in a directory.
13:06 < generalusername> It is so moronic that I am lost for words.
13:06 < brunch875> was this change recent?
13:07 < generalusername> And then you get people telling you that "it is better" and I should move to another DE if I don't like it.
13:07 < pingfloyd> it's devoid of any common sense
13:07 < generalusername> brunch875: recent for me anyways, last I updated the configuration to fallback to typeahead is removed. :(
13:07 < pingfloyd> generalusername: I think the problem was the developer has been holed up in his basement for the past 2 years
13:08 < jim> generalusername, sounds pretty unstable to me
13:08 < generalusername> pingfloyd: yes, I am just really curious to understand their point of view.
13:08 < pingfloyd> that's the problem with gnome though
13:08 < generalusername> Do they actually do anything meaningful other than hack on Gnome?
13:08 < pingfloyd> it has been downgrading for over a decade
13:09 < pingfloyd> gnome 1 was better than gnome 2 in many ways
13:09 < generalusername> I see this blog by one of the main guys behind lots of churn: https://csorianognome.wordpress.com/
13:09 < generalusername> it makes little sense
13:09 < generalusername> this guy is completely out of touch with reality.
13:09 < pingfloyd> see
13:09 < Sveta> `light-locker-command -l` says `** Message: 21:09:23.930: Received error message from the locker: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver was not provided by any .service files`
13:09 < pingfloyd> you can tell a lot about a person by their design decisions
13:09 < stevendale> Sveta
13:10 < MrElendig> you should go and tell them on their irc channel / ml, instead of rant in random irc channels
13:10 < Sveta> kught-locker isn't running.. what did debian do to it?
13:10 < Sveta> light-locker
13:10 < stevendale> For the first time in my life, I am sick of reinstalling/distro hopping
13:10 < pingfloyd> generalusername: I think part of the other problem is they don't have enough gnome users telling them like it is
13:11 < jim> generalusername, I'm running a dist that successfully upgraded from libc4 and a.out exec format to libc5 and ELF exec format, maybe about 15-16 years ago... I'm pretty sure they're still good at upgrades
13:11 < generalusername> pingfloyd: if that is the case, that is a big problem.
13:11 < pingfloyd> generalusername: there's always xfce, which is kind of like if gnome had been done right
13:11 < generalusername> feedback should be raw and real.
13:11 < generalusername> pingfloyd: I am shopping around for some DE that works nice with i3.
13:11 < MrElendig> xfce has its hosts of problems
13:11 < generalusername> I will consider xfce. Thanks.
13:11 < MrElendig> like the keyboard settings dialog not working for almost 6 years
13:12 < pingfloyd> I haven't had that problem
13:12 < generalusername> MrElendig: Oh, I am sure it does. But does it force you to do a full text search when you want to select a file with keyboard?
13:12 < generalusername> Surely, yet another DE can't be that brain dead?
13:12 < MrElendig> generalusername: *coughKDEcough*
13:12 < MrElendig> :p
13:13 < generalusername> I am have KDE and XFCE so far to consider.
13:13 < generalusername> Also the one from Elementary OS.
13:13 < MrElendig> it had it half a decade before gnome
13:13 < generalusername> Can't recall the name.
13:13 < MrElendig> actually more
13:13 < generalusername> Next weekend I shall move off Gnome.
13:13 < brunch875> MrElendig: I'm on KDE. How do I test this?
13:13 < generalusername> Fuck this nonsense.
13:13 < MrElendig> nepomuk is 2010 vintage iirc?
13:13 < SuperSeriousCat> Where do you do this "full text search"?
13:13 < generalusername> brunch875: open a file manager. Type "b" what happens?
13:14 < generalusername> SuperSeriousCat: They're doing it everywhere. Open File Dialog. Nautilus. Everywhere you get to select files, it is now a full text search instead of typeahead.
13:14 < pingfloyd> generalusername: there's cinnamon which is like Windows, but meh
13:14 < brunch875> generalusername: like it does on windows, it selects the first folder with b
13:14 < pingfloyd> if you like windows ui, you'll probably like cinnamon
13:14 < generalusername> brunch875: like it should. That is what everyone expects, except the morons who broke Gnome.
13:14 < MrElendig> there is a patch to still do typeahead btw
13:15 < bookworm> it could be an option... but gnome people don't like options ;)
13:15 < MrElendig> and you should have told the gnome community that it was a bad idea before it was released
13:15 < pingfloyd> bookworm: that's what I hate about gnome
13:15 < pingfloyd> bookworm: that "don't need options" mentality of it
13:15 < bookworm> indeed
13:15 < Sveta> there is no reason to hate
13:15 < generalusername> MrElendig: but why break it? if I liked to compile shit I would run Gentoo. lol
13:15 < brunch875> generalusername: oooh so typing in gnome opens up a search bar like ctrl-f?
13:16 < Sveta> use a fork of it if their defaults are displeasant
13:16 < generalusername> bookworm: there was a config, but they removed it. No fucking idea why.
13:16 < Sveta> yes
13:16 < MrElendig> generalusername: because you didn't tell them that it was a bad idea
13:16 < Sveta> direct your frustration at the right people please
13:16 < Sveta> there is 2 or 3 forks of gnome, perhaps they are more sensible
13:16 < generalusername> brunch875: it basically searches for files and directories all over your computer that matches that string.
13:17 < brunch875> all over your computer!?
13:17 < generalusername> MrElendig: lol.
13:17 < noodlepie> GCC is really good too. And I love gdb for debugging and stepping; and breakpoints are a great tool too. I used gdb to debug my Konica GNU gPhoto camera driver,
13:17 < Sveta> :)
13:17 < generalusername> MrElendig: I am curious why they think the new search is a better idea!?
13:17 < brunch875> I thought hitting the super key and typing did this already
13:17 < generalusername> brunch875: yup. that stupid!
13:17 < Sveta> generalusername: again direct your frustration at the right people
13:17 < MrElendig> generalusername: ask them, not me
13:17 < Sveta> generalusername: take a look at MATE and xfce and cinammon
13:17 < generalusername> Sveta: It is bewilderment as much as frustration.
13:18 < Sveta> generalusername: on a good distribution, they are easy to install and remove
13:18 < generalusername> Gnome is shipped as default DE in many distros. I am curious why is the Linux on desktop regress into this kind of moronic state?
13:18 < Sveta> generalusername: trying either of the desktops may take you as little as 5-10 minutes
13:18 < noodlepie> Did you know you can add command aliases to your ~/.bashrc to group together commands for things like updating and kernel building. emacs/nano/vim ~/.bashrc for more details. The file contains some examples.
13:18 < Sveta> generalusername: because these distributions fail, you need to find better ones
13:18 < noodlepie> 4.16.8-gentoo stable here. It's great!
13:18 < generalusername> Sveta: not if you have to configure it work nicely with i3wm. You see, telling me to move is not that easy :P
13:19 < generalusername> pingfloyd: What DE do you use?
13:19 < Sveta> generalusername: also, if they don't fail, query them about how inconvenient they are
13:19 < bookworm> noodlepie: no you are the only person who knows that. On earth
13:19 < Sveta> generalusername: we try to avoid polls here, they go downhill very easily
13:19 < noodlepie> I have a couple of ls aliases for ls -l lA and ls -lAC, and an update alias command which emerge --sync's and emerge -uavDN @World for me
13:19 < generalusername> MrElendig: I have asked in #gnome many times, no one speaks. :P
13:20 < MrElendig> sure you were on the correct network?
13:20 < noodlepie> Bash is very useful, much better then windows 'power'shell, trumpted up dos captive market bollocks!
13:20 < Sveta> generalusername: irc is not the place to add bug reports
13:20 < phogg> generalusername: GNOME developers have a weird idea of what "good" looks like. They've been on a regressive trend for 15 years at least. If you don't buy into their notions use something else.
13:20 < Sveta> generalusername: their issue tracker is better
13:20 < generalusername> MrElendig: Yes.
13:20 < Sveta> generalusername: if you find a saner desktop,please use their issue tracker (not irc) to report bugs
13:21 < phogg> the best place is the GNOME development mailing lists
13:21 < Sveta> generalusername: unless they have a dedicated volunteer who reads all of irc and copies it to an issue tracker, on irc, bug reports are easily missed
13:21 < generalusername> Sveta: it is not a bug report. It is a conversation. I am curious as to why all this stupidity?
13:21 < generalusername> I am curious as to wtf is going on?
13:21 < phogg> reporting complaints on bug trackers just gets ignored, too
13:21 < generalusername> phogg: exactly.
13:21 < bookworm> Sveta: you seem to miss what they are saying...
13:21 < Sveta> generalusername: on irc they may have one or two people who see your message, on a mailing list or issue tracker it is more like 20
13:21 < phogg> generalusername: Join the GNOME development mailing list and ask there. I can't remotely justify it.
13:22 < Sveta> bookworm: I dislike gnome partly, but I don't think that asking on irc and watching the silence is a productive approach to it
13:22 < generalusername> You don't understand my point.
13:22 < generalusername> I have already lost hope in Gnome.
13:22 < generalusername> I am moving on.
13:22 < generalusername> Again, I am curious wtf is going on?
13:22 < bookworm> can be explained in one word: gnome
13:23 < Sveta> generalusername: the advice I am giving to you is not gnome-specific - it relates to how bug reports are best put to avoid seeing them missed
13:23 < phogg> noodlepie: aliases are mostly pointless when you have the option of using functions
13:23 < generalusername> All that bs about Linux on Desktop and the flagship DE that is shipped as default in mainstream distros is regress into a piece of rubbish.
13:23 < bookworm> Sveta: it is *no bug report*
13:23 < djph> Sveta: or ignored, for that matter.
13:23 < generalusername> And you're telling me I should us bug trackers to talk about this.
13:23 < generalusername> Thanks, but no.
13:23 < bookworm> it's a rant
13:23 < Sveta> generalusername: if you direct your energy at trying a new desktop now, it may be a more valuable use of it
13:23 < brunch875> that is true
13:23 < phogg> generalusername: if you want to know what's going on you *MUST* ask GNOME developers directly. That's nobody here.
13:23 < generalusername> Sveta: For me yes, but it does not help me understand what happened?
13:24 < generalusername> I am curious as to how this all ended up here.
13:24 < Sveta> generalusername: like phogg said, if you ask 'whats wrong with gnome', you get answer 'ask their mailling list'
13:24 < Sveta> generalusername: we can't possibly say
13:24 < generalusername> Surely someone could shed some light, or hook me up with some good sauce.
13:24 < phogg> generalusername: We can only give you guesses.
13:24 < Sveta> generalusername: they did something that's easier to program for and to use, from their perspective. their perspective is not really something we're closely familiar with, sorry
13:24 < phogg> generalusername: I can give you my *opinion*, but what I think is just my analysis and is likely to be somewhat incorrect.
13:24 < generalusername> I tried to dig around and all I found was that a couple of monkies decided they should come up with UI Solutions and find a problem in Gnome for it to be fixed.
13:24 < djph> move away from the "mainstream" and find a WM you like?
13:24 < generalusername> But how did this all happened?
13:25 < generalusername> wow.
13:25 < generalusername> You're all missing the point.
13:25 < Sveta> generalusername: you could watch a few gnome conference slides, find relevat peoples blogs
13:25 < djph> Millennials.
13:25 < generalusername> I know what to do. Okay? Thanks.
13:25 < Sveta> generalusername: we're not missing it, we're just suggesting you to move to something new
13:25 < phogg> generalusername: if your question is "Why do the GNOME programmers do what the GNOME UI design team say to do even when it's patently obvious that it's insane?" I've no idea, it's some kind of madness.
13:25 < generalusername> djph: couldn't get more "not-mainstream" than Arch, short of Gentoo and other source based distros.
13:25 < MrElendig> djph: he is the "doctor, it hurts when I poke myself with a nail" "don't poke yourself with a nail" "don't tell me what to do!" type  or so it seems
13:26 < Sveta> :)
13:26 < MrElendig> generalusername: wm != distro
13:26 < generalusername> phogg: Thanks :)
13:26 < djph> MrElendig: I see.  "okay, then poke yourself with this really big nail, really hard, right here."
13:26 < mouses> I too like to whine about WM's that I don't like vs using something I like
13:26 < generalusername> MrElendig: Who said that? I said it is the default DE in mainstream distros. Please read ;)
13:26 < Sveta> generalusername: there is no such thing as mainstream distros
13:26 < generalusername> mouses: first, fuck you, second, I am not whining as much as I am curious as to what the fuck is going on. Okay?
13:27 < mouses> o__0
13:27 < phogg> generalusername: When did you get on this train? If you got on long enough ago you will have seen this cycle repeat several times. It often leads to the changes being partially reverted after a few years.
13:27 < generalusername> Sveta: lol, are you sure? *coughUbuntucough*
13:27 < djph> generalusername: and I told you to move away from the "mainstream (implied DE)", and go find a WM you like.
13:27 < ||JD||> well that escalated quickly
13:27 < djph> uhoh
13:27 < Sveta> (Perhaps that gives them more time and energy to try something new. I was hoping there is a better way, but alas not.)
13:27 < phogg> that's probably for the best
13:27 < mouses> generalusername: I think people are gently trying to tell you that you have tons of alternatives and that you can ask the Gnome people how and why they do what they do if you are curious.
13:28 < sauvin> I wasn't. $Desktop sucked, this is GNU/Linux, there are lots of choices.
13:28 < sauvin> I moved and moved on.
13:29 < mouses> lately i'm super happy with xfce+i3-gaps
13:29 < djph> xfce is nice - really like what the MX guys did with it
13:29 < Sveta> sauvin, it surprises me people identify 'mainstream distros' as a thing or a trend, i find it amusing
13:29 < mouses> never thought I'd love a TWM, but now that it's been a couple months and I am comfy with it, it's wonderful
13:29 < Sveta> :) you mean tilingwindowmanager?
13:29 < mouses> Sveta: yup!
13:29 < Sveta> ok
13:30 < djph> Sveta: millennials.  Helps them to cope with being "so edgy / not mainstream" when they secretly want to be part of something "mainstream(tm)"
13:30 < Sveta> i use wmaker and gnustep apps,they're okay
13:30 < sauvin> Sveta, and yet there are a handful of distros from which bazillions of others are derivative, and there are a few distros that are so widely used you may as well call them "mainstream".
13:30 < Sveta> djph: is 'millenials' a thing?
13:30 < djph> Sveta: everyone born 1984-ish to 2000-ish :|
13:31 < Sveta> sauvin: it's easy to derive something from debian that looks and feels _very_ different, so calling debian mainstream in the context of discussion above becomes to lose meaning
13:31 < phogg> djph: I don't think that's an agreed-upon definition
13:31 < djph> although there's a huge schism between 198x-1992 (or so) and the 1993-onwards kids.
13:31 < phogg> A "Millennial" is anyone for whom the internet has always existed.
13:31 < djph> phogg: depends which sociologist you talk to.
13:31 < sauvin> That doesn't make Debian "not mainstream", it just makes the very different derivative "very different".
13:32 < djph> anyway, mom's day; take care all
13:32 < phogg> So depending on your country and socioeconomic position it may be people born after 1984 or may be people born after 1998, or somewhere else.
13:33 < Sveta> sauvin: 'mainstream distros use 'emacs or systemd or gnome or add your religion here' therefore this is 'nice or weird or whatever'' kind of thinking does not work well because a derived distro may easily use a different religion
13:33 < noodlepie> gdb can debug Ada (from GNAT), Assembly, C, C++, D, Fortran, Go, Objective-C (GNUStep (: /apple :( ) OpenCL (GPUze), Modula-2, Pascal and Rust - it can debug any program but the supported ones have extra support.
13:34 < phogg> mainstream distributions *intend* to be used by anyone for any purpose, but may specialize on a any-server or any-desktop role and still be mainnstream.
13:34 < Sveta> yes
13:35 < sauvin> Sveta, I'm talking numbers. You're talking something else.
13:35 < stevendale> Debian is king :3
13:35 < phogg> you might secondarily qualify that to be mainstream you have to intend to be *and* be popular
13:35 < mouses> I'm using galliumOS on this chromebook, it's a fork of xubuntu - really like it
13:35 < ciscam> hi! I'd like to read inside a "while read l; do read -p "$l" a; done <$file" loop but the read inside the loop is always skipped
13:36 < ciscam> doing an "echo $l; sleep 1" inside the read loop works fine
13:36 < phogg> ciscam: pastebin your code
13:36 < phogg> ciscam: also, check it with shellcheck
13:39 < phogg> ciscam: you might try reading http://wiki.bash-hackers.org/howto/redirection_tutorial (specifically the section on 'exec')
13:47 < ciscam> https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/cJjwO6GNGWxxsPkOWiSLBg that's the paste. The page you linked was informative but didn't help me fix or understand this specific behavior phogg
13:48 < phogg> ciscam: the page I linked *specifically addresses* your problem
13:49  * phogg hates the fedora pastebin so much
13:49 < phogg> why require JS for a paste?!
13:49 < revel> At least you can /raw it.
13:49 < revel> Oh, for pasting?
13:50 < ciscam> does it? strange fedora folk.. thanks, I think I got it now. the internal read tries to get stdin which is already filled by the <redirect. thanks phogg
13:51 < phogg> ciscam: yes
13:51 < phogg> ciscam: it also includes the fix
13:52 < phogg> revel: I would never use it for pasting. I tried ?raw and .raw, but I didn't try /raw. That helps a little. Or one could just use a pastebin that isn't so dumb.
13:53 < stevendale> sudo shutdown -h now
13:54 < phogg> ciscam: but seriously... shellcheck.net. You have some other problems it will catch.
13:54 < phogg> stevendale: wrong window?
14:01 < ciscam> thanks phogg
14:24 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
14:38 < iceb0x> Hi
14:48 < space_race> Hey
14:55 < blawiz> how does indexing something make it faster than 'grep'?
14:57 < P_B> grep searches a  file for a given string. Indexing a filesystem makes a searchable list of files, or index, that can be queried with another program.
14:57 < noodlepie> binary search method to divide and conquer value regions, grep just prgressinvely scans the files/searchpath from beginning to end.
14:57 < blawiz> hm
14:58 < noodlepie> The binary search, for indexed/ordered data, starts searching in the middle of the list, then determines if it needs to shift up or down based on a comparison, gense "binray search". In SQL database land, this is acheived with indexes which sort their data and allow the quicker binary search on data. For small files, use grep!
14:59 < blawiz> but how does the binary know if "foo" is in which half?
15:00 < revel> blawiz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_search_algorithm
15:00 < revel> Maybe it's a terrible example, but "does it start with a-g or h-z?" "oh, f, let's go with a-g" and keep going.
15:02 < blawiz> hm
15:02 < blawiz> i guess that makes sense (maybe :)
15:02 < revel> And if they're roughly the same size, then you just halved the search area. Then, check more specifically and keep halving it.
15:02 < noodlepie> it check the middle value of your sorted like, and if this is greater than, then it check another quarter down, for that value. You can do this with function recursion.
15:02 < blawiz> mhm
15:03 < noodlepie> blawiz, you should search for binary tree example code on google for more
15:03 < noodlepie> Its a common problem that it solves
15:05 < stevendale> Hi
15:06 < stevendale> I wonder what the filesystem cluster sizes are on Google's SSDs
15:06 < stevendale> 4096?
15:06 < stevendale> Or 8 MB or something crazy? XD
15:06 < stevendale> I wonder what filesystem they use
15:07 < stevendale> Maybe XFS for superior database performance
15:07 < noodlepie> We need a P2P link point-back prioritized search system on the net for to avoid google's patent.
15:07 < noodlepie> There hould be Googol google's out there
15:08 < stevendale> :P
15:08 < stevendale> I tried RectOS today
15:08 < stevendale> reactos*
15:08 < stevendale> It has come a long way
15:08 < cantbetouched> nice! how was it?  just kidding. I know all linuxes are same
15:08 < stevendale> cantbetouched ReactOS isn't Linux
15:08 < maccampus> Which Shells came standarts with early Linux-software ?
15:09 < stevendale> It's an open source remake of Win NT
15:09 < cantbetouched> stevendale, really? I should try then
15:09 < stevendale> Try it in VBox cantbetouched :)
15:09 < cantbetouched> why would you remake windows
15:09 < cantbetouched> windows 10 is better
15:09 < cantbetouched> stevendale, what distro are you rocking fried?
15:09 < cantbetouched> friend*
15:09 < stevendale> Because no spyware, no slowness, user freedom
15:10 < cantbetouched> spyware?
15:10 < stevendale> cantbetouched Debian Unstable :)
15:10 < cantbetouched> well yea ofc linux lacks support of many apps so it cant have those apps that may have been considered as spyware
15:10 < cantbetouched> linux only supports terminal lol and some crappy DEs
15:10 < cantbetouched> good for server, bad for desktop. cheers
15:11 < cantbetouched> will never be desktop of the year.
15:12 < stevendale> cantbetouched is crazy, GNU/Linux is a perfectly good desktop OS and it plays numerous games through steam and Wine is nearing a complete out of box way to run apps and games
15:13 < cantbetouched> same fps as windows? I think you need to double check your gaming experience :)
15:13 < ananke> ffs, stop feeding the troll
15:15 < stevendale> In my testing, Wine yielded better performance on EVE online than running it natively booted into Win 7 x64
15:15 < stevendale> Mind you, my GPU is an Intel HD 4000, so it's not very high-end, but it does the job
15:15 < BluesKaj> fps is over rated ,  at best it's a phony spec if you can't see the difference
15:16 < cantbetouched> not really
15:17 < noodlepie> Linux kernel 4.16.8-gentoo stable here. All up to date. Nice!
15:17 < cantbetouched> fps makes a big difference in first person games
15:17 < ananke> stevendale: because a 10 year old and deprecated OS is somewhat a proper comparison point
15:17 < cantbetouched> noodlepie, how long did it take you to compile
15:18 < noodlepie> couple of minutes, I have a eight thread i7 laptop and build the kernel with make -j9 for multithread processing (SMP)
15:18 < noodlepie> It can build it in parallel!
15:19 < stevendale> noodle I can do -j1 on my 32-bit Intel Pentium M 740 @ 1.73 GHz
15:19 < stevendale> It'll take a few days ;)
15:19 < noodlepie> I use the Gentoo "genkernel" command to build kernel and modules, and have a script to put the bootable kernel image in /boot and configure grub
15:19 < brunch875> linux does better for me in fps than windows
15:19 < cantbetouched> noodlepie, nice!
15:19 < cantbetouched> brunch875, playing snake games in terminal? sure. not in dota 2
15:20 < cantbetouched> :)
15:20 < brunch875> cantbetouched: natural selection 2 is a great game
15:20 < cantbetouched> noodlepie, I never know the pain you suffer. I use arch :)
15:20 < noodlepie> I have Linux kernel options, CLEAN and MRPROPER set to "no" so it caches old build object files and only needs to recompile if changes are made.
15:20 < brunch875> had a lot of fun with sc2 too, but that's quite the oldie now
15:20 < stevendale> cantbetouched is a windows fanboy, can you get rid of him please sauvin :(
15:21 < ananke> stevendale: you're playing into it. stop responding
15:21 < brunch875> DOOM ran quite nicely in wine
15:21 < brunch875> to be honest, I quit windows back when win8 would stutter with tf2 but ubuntu wouldn't
15:21 < Grad> This is weird, and I am not sure how to fix it. Apparently I have two versions of sublime-text (text editor) installed one in /usr/local/ and another in /opt/ but the subl command line launches the old version which is in /usr/local/
15:22 < Grad> what do I do here ?
15:22 < brunch875> although I must admit I get better performance in windows when handling poorly ported games
15:22 < revel> Grad: Remove the old one?
15:22 < ananke> Grad: type 'which subl'
15:22 < brunch875> Grad: are you aware of path and how it works?
15:22 < revel> Or readjust your PATH so the /opt one is first.
15:23 < cantbetouched> stevendale, not really. I love windows 10 and use it on every PC except for the laptop that I am using right now i.e. arch linux (btw I use arch)
15:23 < brunch875> you probably don't even have /opt in your path
15:23 < revel> Wow, yet another Arch user who also loves Windows :D
15:23 < revel> MrElendig: Why're there so many of them?
15:23 < brunch875> you love win10? I'm astonished
15:23 < Grad> ananke: it shows the one in usr/local/ revel the old version contains a desktop file and the exec path is /opt/ not sure how or why.
15:24 < Grad> brunch875: not entirely just so so
15:24 < cantbetouched> if it werent for arch and i3, I would have left linux since long time (there is WSL now in windows 10 ;))
15:24 < stevendale> W10 is dead in 2025
15:24 < ananke> stevendale: and?
15:24 < noodlepie> Someone once said to me, "Linux is Manna from Heaven". It is!
15:24 < cantbetouched> stevendale, linux was dead since forever except for servers lol
15:24 < revel> brunch875: No, I don't. You do.
15:24 < brunch875> cantbetouched: I might be unlucky, but my current windows 10 installation keeps on freezing
15:25 < stevendale> ananke It'll be a good thing
15:25 < cantbetouched> brunch875, windows 10 has never given me blue screens. arch froze more on me than w10. its a rock solid OS. must give appreciation to microsoft where its due
15:25 < noodlepie> If my laptop was a car, I'd get a free new Porsche/Lamborghini engine for it, every day! 3D printers need to evolve!
15:25 < revel> brunch875: No, wait, wrong person.
15:25 < brunch875> cantbetouched: arch is a rolling release, it's meant to be unstable
15:25 < V7> Hey all
15:25 < brunch875> but win10 has no excuse
15:25 < cantbetouched> brunch875, ubuntu has been more unstable to me than arch
15:25 < cantbetouched> so there you go
15:25 < V7> Is there any possible way to tell fstab to use another charset for a partition ?
15:26 < ananke> stevendale: you're going full retard
15:26 < brunch875> Grad: path basically tells the system where to look when invoking a program
15:26 < cantbetouched> ananke, ofc he is retard. he is using gentoo in 2018.
15:26 < revel> V7: Yep.
15:26 < V7> For example, is it the right way to make it like "defaults,iocharset=utf8,nofail" ?
15:26 < brunch875> so when you type 'sublime-text', it will do /usr/local/sublime-text
15:26 < ananke> cantbetouched: and you're using arch. not sure you have much room to talk
15:26 < revel> I think so.
15:27 < V7> Because now it tells "iocharset=iso8859-1"
15:27 < brunch875> if you add /opt/sublime/sublime-text to path in order, it will take preference
15:27 < V7> in "mount -l"
15:27 < revel> What filesystem?
15:27 < BluesKaj> this converstaion has been repeated here for yrs and yrs, this MS vs Linux "debate" should bew banned since windows isn't supported here.
15:27 < cantbetouched> ananke, I use it for fun. my main OS is still windows 10. will never put arch instead of windows 10 for serious work :) so I guess I am not so insane
15:27 < V7> fat32 (vfat)
15:27 < revel> Maybe it just doesn't support UTF-8.
15:27 < Grad> brunch875: right so when I write which $PATH it shows all my paths which does not include /opt/ at the moment it seems
15:27 < brunch875> cantbetouched: what's the point of using arch at all then?
15:27 < ananke> cantbetouched: not to mention so far you've been merely trolling
15:27 < V7> revel: What do you mena ?
15:27 < V7> mean *
15:27 < cantbetouched> brunch875, for r/unixporn
15:27 < revel> V7: Does that work when you manually mount it with iocharset=utf8?
15:27 < cantbetouched> lol
15:27 < tx> brunch875: to be cool with his pals at college
15:27 < tx> ;)
15:27 < V7> I'll try now
15:28 < revel> V7: If it does, then maybe remove the "defaults" option.
15:28 < tx> If your laptop doesn't have at least one breaking bug at all times
15:28 < brunch875> Grad: can you show your path?
15:28 < stevendale> Bunch off buttholes
15:28 < tx> you're not hip
15:28 < brunch875> echo $PATH
15:28 < stevendale> pwd
15:28 < V7> revel: Yes, it works
15:28 < ananke> stevendale: stop while you're barely ahead
15:29 < tx> readlink  -f ./ works too
15:29 < revel> V7: I'm guessing the defaults for vfat has that iocharset option then, try it in fstab without it.
15:29 < stevendale> ananke I'm sorry, I don't care about people who use derogatory terms for people who are mentally challenged. Goodbye.
15:29 < tx> as well as many other silly and unnecessarily long ways :P
15:29 < revel> Wait, stevendale is leaving? :D
15:30 < V7> revel: Yes, but it'll remove others good options like "rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,shortname=mixed,errors=remount-ro"
15:30 < revel> ananke: You heard him, he's going, make sure he doesn't dawdle for too long :D
15:30 < ananke> revel: considering how little he cares about himself, we may have to worry about his well being
15:31 < revel> V7: Check how many of those are there without defaults anyway (probably rw, at least) and add the rest? I can't remember, but I think codepage=437 may interfere with utf-8 as well.
15:31 < V7> oh
15:31 < V7> Thank you revel
15:31 < mawk> you are mentally challenged stevendale ?
15:32 < revel> Hey, it's not working yet, is it? Why thank me so soon? :P
15:32 < tx> Yeah, he was doing a 'world's top 10 hardest sudokus' puzzle book just now
15:32 < cantbetouched> mawk, yea. he is using gentoo. he is mentally challenged. please dont mock him
15:32 < stevendale> Yeah I am mawk, and these people are annoying me deliberately, and I'm not using Gentoo
15:32 < mawk> lol
15:33 < mawk> why are you talking about buttholes if you don't want to get annoyed ?
15:33 < tx> I can confirm stevendale is using a potato to connect.
15:33 < tx> Please do not say that he is using Gentoo.
15:33 < revel> cantbetouched: Are you done trolling yet?
15:33 < stevendale> !ops cantbetouched bullying stevendale, trolling
15:33 < cantbetouched> revel, wait not yet. I only use arch. wait till I use gentoo or LFS
15:34 < cantbetouched> then I will be a full troll like stevendale
15:34 < revel> LFS isn't even a distro, it's a book.
15:34 < brunch875> I don't see the point of gentoo
15:34 < rascul> i don't see the point of arch
15:34 < brunch875> it's a waste of electricity
15:35 < rascul> it's a waste of electricity
15:35 < cantbetouched> brunch875, sshhh... you might hurt gentoo blind fans here
15:35 < cantbetouched> * Received a CTCP VERSION from revel
15:35 < cantbetouched> brunch875, curious. what distro do you use
15:35 < cantbetouched> damn it
15:35 < cantbetouched>  Received a CTCP VERSION from brunch875
15:35 < cantbetouched> * Received a CTCP FUCKYERMOTHER from revel
15:35 < cantbetouched> * Received a CTCP version from stevendale
15:35 < brunch875> haha
15:35 < mawk> lol
15:36 < brunch875> I'm trying out manjaro to see how it goes
15:36 < brunch875> it's #1 on distrowatch
15:36 < ananke> cantbetouched: you really need to reel this idiocy in. sooner than later
15:36 < cantbetouched> they should know I am leet using arch.
15:36 < tx> Manjaro is in right now
15:36 < tx> To me it just looks like any other distro ever.
15:36 < cantbetouched> ctcp doesnt work for me
15:36 < tx> What's the appeal?
15:36 < cantbetouched> * Received a CTCP STOPPOSTINGTHIS from phre4k
15:36 < cantbetouched> * Received a CTCP TIME from revel
15:36 < cantbetouched> * Received a CTCP FINGER from revel
15:36 < cantbetouched> woah
15:36 < revel> cantbetouched: Are you sure? ;)
15:36 < revel> TIME works.
15:36 < brunch875> apparently it's based on arch, but with friendly wrappers over it
15:37 < brunch875> I'm curious on arch, since I learned a bunch from their wiki
15:37 < cantbetouched> Received a CTCP PING from revel
15:37 < cantbetouched> * Received a CTCP PING 1526168623367 from revel
15:37 < ayecee> you can stop with the pasting now
15:37 < revel> That's my bouncer, not my client, fyi.
15:37 < cantbetouched> I use tor. I am leet
15:37 < revel> Hmm, no, wait.
15:37 < cantbetouched> no one can hackk me
15:38 < revel> cantbetouched: Wow, me too, s00per l33t
15:38 < cantbetouched> cheers
15:38 < cantbetouched> revel, what distro?
15:38 < revel> Gentoo.
15:38 < cantbetouched> haha lifeless leet
15:38 < revel> More specifically, Gentoo Hardened. + selinux
15:39 < cantbetouched> grsecurity is dead
15:39 < revel> Okay?
15:39 < revel> So?
15:39 < cantbetouched> you must be still on 4.9 kernel
15:39 < cantbetouched> :D
15:39 < revel> 4.16.8
15:39 < stevendale> I am on 2.3.26
15:39 < cantbetouched> stevendale, cool.
15:39 < mawk> see stevendale , you need to control yourself
15:40 < revel> cantbetouched: Gentoo Hardened doesn't force you to use hardened-sources. In fact, it's masked, so you have to specifically unmask the package to use it.
15:40 < cantbetouched> LFS doesnt come with package manager hence stevendale cant control his linux since ever. :(
15:40 < cantbetouched> revel, TIL. but honestly most of the grsec is upstream now
15:40 < brunch875> could we up a bit the quality of this conversation?
15:40 < cantbetouched> no point in using hardened
15:40 < brunch875> it almost feels like /g/
15:40 < cantbetouched> s/control/update
15:41 < stevendale> This is worse than the /r/furries forum
15:41 < revel> cantbetouched: Really? Including PaX?
15:41 < revel> Are you sure...?
15:41 < cantbetouched> revel, hardened has PaX and upstream doesnt?
15:41 < cantbetouched> talking about 4.16 now
15:41 < revel> No, I'm talking about "most of the grsec is upstream now"
15:42 < tx> Where do we sign the petition to get Richard Stallman to live-stream TuxKart on Twitch on his libreboot thinkpad
15:42 < cantbetouched> revel, not by spender
15:42 < cantbetouched> by some stealers
15:42 < cantbetouched> who stole grsec code
15:42 < revel> I haven't used grsec, but that's clearly false.
15:42 < cantbetouched> upstream is full of stealers
15:42 < cantbetouched> spender should sue them
15:42 < stevendale> I should sue cantbetouched
15:43 < cantbetouched> kernel 2.6 guy talks
15:43 < revel> Anyways, Hardened has toolchain hardening as well.
15:43 < stevendale> 2.3*
15:43 < cantbetouched> tx, sorry twitch is absolutely propreitery
15:43 < revel> Plus I use selinux, which is handled by upstream kernel devs anyway.
15:43 < cantbetouched> revel, selinux on arch linux is a lot of work
15:44 < cantbetouched> and selinux on distros aren't sane like android
15:44 < revel> Since it isn't officially supported on Arch.
15:44 < cantbetouched> such as fedora
15:44 < revel> Though I guess everyone on Arch uses AUR, so they might not realize that.
15:44 < cantbetouched> well not really
15:44 < cantbetouched> many of them use git
15:45 < revel> SELinux on Fedora is set to targeted, which means you'll secure your, uhh, webservers, and nothing else.
15:45 < cantbetouched> and ignoring the entire AUR feature arch provides them
15:45 < revel> They don't even support setting it to strict, last I checked.
15:45 < cantbetouched> revel, imho android has the most sane selinux implementation as of now
15:45 < cantbetouched> and sandboxing
15:46 < brunch875> based on what?
15:46 < cantbetouched> you can check AOSP
15:46 < stevendale> Your honest opinion is worth about as much as horse manure, cantbetouched
15:46 < brunch875> there we go again...
15:46 < cantbetouched> stevendale, linux kernel 2.3 is awesome. cant wait to get it
15:46 < tx> stevendale: please don't be so rude mate
15:46 < tx> it's a sunday, just relax ay
15:47 < revel> Probably since Android is pretty limited in what it does and how.
15:47 < cantbetouched> revel, upstream devs of linux also didnt take security seriously until recently. thats why grsecurity arised at first place
15:47 < revel> Arose.
15:47 < revel> In the first place.
15:47 < cantbetouched> whatever. I aint white or english speaker
15:47 < revel> I can tell.
15:49 < cantbetouched> damn it. my aunt just brought her thinkpad t43 asking me to make it work. I dont know if it supports windows 10
15:50 < cantbetouched> should I put linux into it?
15:50 < cantbetouched> :D
15:50 < cantbetouched> she doesnt know how to use linux
15:50 < ayecee> doesn't seem wise
15:50 < revel> Better go with NetBSD.
15:50 < cantbetouched> damn it it doesnt even have windows key
15:50 < cantbetouched> t43
15:50 < cantbetouched> richard stallman's laptop lolll
15:50 < cantbetouched> ayecee, what should I do?
15:51 < cantbetouched> windows 10 would lag like hell I pretty sure
15:51 < cantbetouched> its t43
15:51 < revel> cantbetouched: CloverOS.
15:51 < ayecee> have your aunt get a netbook
15:51 < cantbetouched> no
15:51 < cantbetouched> she cant afford
15:51 < ayecee> she can put it on installments and pay for the next couple of years
15:52 < cantbetouched> I am still wondering how richard stallman is using it till nnow
15:52 < cantbetouched> hahaha
15:52 < tx> he uses 2 terminals on either half of his screen
15:52 < revel> Are you obsessed with him?
15:52 < tx> he's not rendering 4k footage of his toe jam
15:52 < cantbetouched> ahan. makes sense
15:52 < cantbetouched> tx, hahahahahaha
15:52 < cantbetouched> his toe scene lol
15:53 < tx> Honestly most of us (for what we do) would be perfectly fine with kit from a decade ago
15:53 < tx> my t400 still rocks
15:53 < tx> I don't uh, use it any more
15:53 < tx> but it's still a nice machine ;)
15:53 < cantbetouched> dude
15:53 < cantbetouched> its not t400
15:53 < cantbetouched> its t43
15:53 < cantbetouched> IBM thinkpad. not lenovo
15:53 < ayecee> the one tx have is t400
15:54 < cantbetouched> however I am surprised to find lenovo name on back of it
15:54 < tx> I got a t570
15:54 < tx> No libreboot here. What I said still applies though
15:54 < tx> he is using it as an email machine
15:54 < cantbetouched> tx, what do you currently use ?
15:54 < tx> ^
15:54 < cantbetouched> t570?
15:54 < tx> yes
15:54 < cantbetouched> its a reletavely up to date machine
15:54 < tx> Yes, last years range.
15:55 < cantbetouched> hows it so far
15:55 < cantbetouched> specs? plz
15:55 < tx> 4G, backlit keyb, ULV i7 quad core
15:55 < tx> 1TB non-stock SSD
15:55 < tx> 16GB RAM, etc.
15:55 < cantbetouched> cool
15:55 < cantbetouched> which SSD thou
15:55 < tx> I have had a modem in my thinkpads since I have been using them, still my fav.
15:55 < cantbetouched> ULV i7?
15:56 < tx> Uh, whatever last year's samsung pro range was
15:56 < tx> 8xx.
15:56 < Pretheist> I dunno if this is even productive to ask, but what's the general process for installing a new WM? What if I want awesomewm on alpine?
15:56 < tx> 'apk update && apk add awesome' iirc
15:56 < tx> ;)
15:57 < tx> Pretheist: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Awesome(wm)_Setup
15:57 < tx> There's a nice wiki page on it for alpine.
15:57 < revel> Depends on what you do to start a graphical session, I think. i.e DM vs startx
15:58 < tx> Pretheist: you can have as many VMs as you want (on paper)
15:58 < tx> until you run out of space
15:58 < tx> WM*
15:58 < revel> Same goes for VMs :P
15:58 < tx> Especially if those VMs are alpine too
15:58 < tx> bloody tiny distro
15:59 < revel> I guess some WMs could possibly block each other for some reason, like trying to use the same files for some reason.
15:59 < triceratux> sauvin: have you finished the swagarch install yet ? https://swagarch.github.io/
15:59 < revel> i.e not-very-well-differentiated fork.
16:01 < Grad> brunch875: /home/Ace/anaconda3/bin:/home/Ace/anaconda3/bin:/home/Ace/anaconda3/bin:/home/Ace/anaconda3/bin:/home/Ace/anaconda3/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/home/Ace/.local/bin:/home/Ace/bin
16:01 < Grad> that is what I get when I type echo $PATH
16:02 < brunch875> Grad: where is the editor launched installed?
16:02 < revel> Grad: Notice how /usr/local/bin comes before /usr/bin ? That means if you have some binaries with the same name in both of those locations, the one in /usr/loca/bin will be used.
16:03 < Grad> brunch875: the one that is launched by subl is in /usr/local/
16:03 < Pretheist> also sorry for not googling first; i thought i would screw it up by just asking the wrong question
16:03 < Pretheist> tx: that's super interesting
16:04 < tx> Pretheist: you didn't man
16:04 < tx> never be shy of asking anything bruh
16:04 < Pretheist> also, I see alpine uses apk; is that especially different from apt?
16:04 < revel> Well, they're completely different package managers, yet.
16:04 < revel> s/yet/yes/
16:04 < brunch875> Grad: I take it you manually installed the /usr/local one?
16:04 < Pretheist> i should learn how to use docker/lxc to try these things out first, i feel like
16:04 < tx> https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Comparison_with_other_distros#Comparison_chart.2FRosetta_Stone
16:05 < Pretheist> this wiki's got everything.
16:05 < revel> I'm pretty sure apk was built from scratch rather than being specifically based on anything like apt.
16:05 < tx> yeah
16:05 < tx> Just another package manager for another distro
16:05 < tx> Man I tell you what, I've been using snap more and more
16:05 < tx> I am beginning to be a fan
16:05 < Grad> brunch875: I am not sure to be honest, but when I do dnf remove sublime-text the newer version which is located in /opt/ pops up
16:07 < Pretheist> tx: are snaps just statically linked?
16:07 < Pretheist> or what actually containerizes them
16:07 < tx> yeah they are
16:07 < brunch875> huh, that's really odd; since /opt isn't in your path
16:07 < revel> They're containers, basically. That include everything up to their own libc.
16:07 < revel> And all of the dep tree.
16:08 < tx> I mean, snap isn't without its problems
16:08 < tx> especially with UI frameworks
16:08 < tx> App X uses specific QT version X and won't like any of your appearance settings
16:08 < Grad> brunch875: I typed subl in /usr/bin and the file has the following line exec /opt/sublime_text/sublime_text "$@"
16:08 < tx> so too bad for you, if it's not a big fat electron app or java app
16:08 < tx> s'gonna look like warmed up garbage
16:11 < Grad> revel: I see now what you mean inside /usr/local/bin there is another subl file that contains the path to /usr/local/sublime and since that path is before /usr/bin/ the subl inside /usr/bin/ does not get read, correct?
16:11 < revel> Grad: Yep, exactly.
16:11 < brunch875> wow, that's the messiest I've ever seen
16:12 < cantbetouched> AAAAAAAA
16:13 < cantbetouched> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
16:13 < cantbetouched> damn it my keyboard got stuck
16:14 < Grad> okay so now I need to remove everything associated with the /usr/local/sublime and only retain the one in /opt/ but I also have to change the PATH?
16:14 < revel> If you remove the subl in /usr/local/bin, then you'll use the one in /usr/bin
16:14 < revel> Though not leaving everything associated with the old sublime lying around is probably good.
16:14 < brunch875> the path is fine as it is
16:17 < Grad> okay...so now i did rm -r sublime in the /usr/local/ one, but I still need to link the subl to the new, can I delete the subl in /usr/local/bin? why would I lose the one in /usr/bin if I do that?
16:18 < mawk> what's a subl ?
16:18 < triceratux> itz a editor
16:18 < brunch875> subl short for sublime text editor
16:18 < mawk> why would you use an abbreviation for that
16:19 < revel> Grad: Removing the one in /usr/local/bin shouldn't remove the one in /usr/bin
16:19 < Grad> revel: sorry I misread what you wrote above as lose
16:19 < revel> mawk: I think he's saying the script that starts sublime is called "subl"
16:19 < triceratux> Grad: now that you know what you know, you might consider removing both images completely & then installing properly just the one youre after
16:19 < mawk> ah, makes more sense
16:20 < Grad> mawk: subl is the CLI not an abbreviation, thought I suppose you could
16:20 < mawk> that script does what ?
16:20 < mawk> or it's just a symlink
16:21 < mawk> you had a sublime/ directory in /usr/local ? why would they do that, it's terrible
16:21 < revel> mawk: I'm guessing he installed something meant to be in /opt in /usr/local
16:21 < Pretheist> tx: makes sense
16:22 < mawk> yeah
16:23 < Pretheist> tx: also, do you have any "one true text" references for understanding the structure of linux machines and best practices, or is that not a thing
16:25 < Grad> alright all good now! uninstalled the latest one too and reinstalled it and it automatically chose opt
16:25 < revel> `man hier`? :P
16:25 < revel> Pretheist: ^
16:25 < revel> Of course, any distro is free to disregard it completely.
16:25 < Pretheist> revel: goddamned manpages everytime
16:25 < Pretheist> they've got everything.
16:25 < revel> Do you prefer info pages?
16:26 < Pretheist> nay, i'm just always surprised that it's in the reference. if I man man, will it give me a list of common important manpages?
16:26 < codecutter> how do i check of my ssl cert has explired?
16:26 < revel> No, it'll just tell you about how to use man.
16:27 < Pretheist> ah, dang.
16:27 < maccampus> What is Linux variant of uname ?
16:27 < revel> maccampus: uname
16:27 < codecutter> nvm
16:27 < maccampus> What is used if uname command doesnt exist ?
16:28 < revel> Install the coreutils.
16:28 < Pretheist> maccampus: to do what? lspci?
16:28 < revel> Or, uhh.
16:28 < revel> cat something in /proc
16:28 < maccampus> I want tho know what Linux is running on the machine
16:28 < revel> maccampus: cat /proc/version
16:29 < maccampus> Okay
16:29 < maccampus> WoW
16:29 < revel> You should probably look into at least getting the coreutils though...
16:29 < maccampus> Yggdrasil Linux 0.2
16:30 < revel> lol
16:30 < revel> I'm not even sure if /proc/version was a thing back then.
16:30 < maccampus> Lol
16:35 < mawk> is it a joke maccampus ?
16:36 < mawk> ah, no it's the version of yggdrasil, not the version of linux
16:36 < mawk> I hope
16:37 < revel> Yggdrasil was there before the 1.0 release at the very least, I think.
16:41 < mawk> I'm downloading that yggdrasil thing
16:42 < revel> I don't think it even made it to this century.
16:43 < jim> yggdrasil I think is a smallish live cd
16:43 < jim> and yes it started a long time ago and dunno when or if it ended
16:43 < mawk> last version is from 1995
16:44 < mawk> I'm downloading it
16:44 < jim> probably entertaining
16:45 < ||JD||> according wikipedia they used to sell that crap for $99 lol
16:46 < mawk> lol
16:46 < jim> wow :)
16:46 < mawk> they were the first on market for distros on CD
16:46 < jim> so even before infomagic?
16:47 < mawk> apparently
16:47 < jim> they sold these 4 cd sets for like 20bux that had several dists
16:48 < jim> and other stuff besides dists if I recall correctly... I remember driving like 45 miles to get mine
16:49 < s-falken> sorry, haven't used irc since the 90s, how can I find the name for the LXDE channel?
16:50 < akay> #lxcontainers
16:51 < s-falken> thank you mate
16:51 < triceratux> s-falken: http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode&chat=lxde
16:52 < mawk> it's not what he asked akay
16:52 < revel> jim: pr0n CDs? :p
16:52 < revel> s/:p/:o/
16:52 < akay> oh god, misread it, sorry s-falken
16:55 < mawk> uh
16:55 < mawk> that yggdrasil thing is just a debian derivative
16:55 < mawk> that's disappointing
17:08 < revel> mawk: I think that's just the later versions.
17:11 < zenix_2k2> is there anyway i can suspend my system on Debian ??? ( except systemctl suspend )
17:12 < zenix_2k2> cause that usually causes my system to freeze
17:12 < zenix_2k2> idk why
17:12 < rendolf> this is america.
17:13 < revel> No, this is Freenode.
17:13 < zenix_2k2> were those replies for me or someone else ?
17:14 < rendolf> revel: don't catch you slippin now
17:14 < revel> It's not winter any mor.
17:14 < rendolf> zenix_2k2: both were for you
17:14 < rendolf> revel: look what I'm whippin now
17:14 < revel> !ops rendolf has seemingly gone mad
17:15 < zenix_2k2> rendolf: but what do america and freenode have anything to do with suspending Debian ?
17:15 < BluesKaj> bot
17:15 < rendolf> zenix_2k2: this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY
17:16 < zenix_2k2> First off, this is freenode... secondly, i don't think it is related
17:16 < zenix_2k2> so confusing of what is going on here
17:17 < pnbeast> zenix_2k2, no one has answered you, yet.  Maybe someone will.  There always seem to be "suspend" and "sleep" questions about laptops, here.
17:18 < zenix_2k2> yea, but anyway here is some extra information: my laptop has 2GB and i-core5
17:18 < zenix_2k2> if that helps
17:18 < zenix_2k2> cause on my other laptop which is stronger, systemctl suspend works without freezing
17:19 < rendolf> freezes before or after (attempted) suspension?
17:20 < zenix_2k2> after...
17:20 < zenix_2k2> and to be honest, before suspension there was working fine because... no suspension yet
17:20 < zenix_2k2> it was*
17:21 < Trel> Anyone use DWM, is there any way to close a window/dialog without killing it since there's no frame with a close button?
17:21 < rascul> zenix_2k2 you might also try the channel for your distro
17:21 < zenix_2k2> oh, there is ?
17:22 < zenix_2k2> you mean like each linux distro has its own channel here ?
17:22 < rascul> zenix_2k2 yep, many distros have channels here
17:22 < rascul> what distro is yours?
17:22 < zenix_2k2> Debian
17:22 < rendolf> Trel: shift+alt+c to close the window
17:22 < rascul> try ##debian
17:23 < rascul> Trel in many cases the window is the application and you can't exactly close the window without killing the application
17:23 < rascul> though i dunno if dwm has somehow screwed that concept up
17:24 < Trel> rendolf: that kills it it's a settings dialog I'm trying to close
17:24 < rascul> ahh a dialog
17:24 < rascul> if there's no mechanism in the dialog to close it, it might be worthy of a bug report
17:26 < Trel> Ah darn ok
17:32 < ErikZ> Howdy. I'm trying to add a NVME drive to my GRUB2, but having no luck. I tried using grub-install but it's still not showing up as a possible drive to add to the list. Anyone ever get this working?
17:32 < ErikZ> Using 16.04
17:33 < kazdax> hey guys
17:33 < kazdax> what do you use for string searching in linux ?
17:34 < rascul> ErikZ is there an operating system on that drive?
17:34 < kazdax> awk ?
17:34 < rascul> kazdax grep?
17:34 < dgurney> grep
17:34 < kazdax> grep k
17:34 < rascul> or ripgrep if you want it to be fast
17:34 < zenix_2k2> anyway i have the solution: pm-suspend will do the job, just install pm-untils for those who have the same problems like me
17:34 < ErikZ> rascul yes. Windows 10
17:35 < rascul> ErikZ try #grub
17:35 < ErikZ> rascul Sweet! Thank you.
17:36 < kazdax> does python or perl have advance search functions ?
17:36 < kazdax> i am just bobbling my head right now ...not much to do but ask questions
17:36 < zenix_2k2> search functions ?
17:37 < rendolf> oh hi, I didn't see you guys there. You may know me from movies such as kazdax and I starring zenix_2k2.
17:37 < zenix_2k2> wth ?
17:37 < kazdax> yes we have a new movie
17:37 < k4r78y> the heck is kazdax
17:39 < kazdax> just a mathematical wizard who dosnt know anything besides math except that maybe there are reoccuring patterns in nature
17:39 < kazdax> in 'math'
17:39 < rendolf> ^ this guys know how to plot a movie
17:39 < rendolf> guy* plot a story
17:44 < superboot> Hi all. I've forgotten my Windows password on my dual boot system. Does anyone know of how to change the password from the Linux side of things?
17:44 < rypervenche> superboot: You can quite easily disable your Windows password and then log in and set it from there.
17:45 < kazdax> i dint know that was possible
17:45 < kazdax> i thought maybe its the old way
17:45 < kazdax> you log into your linux ..get the hash of your password
17:45 < kazdax> crack it on the linux and go back on windows
17:45 < barometz> there's a bunch of tools at least for Windows 7 to change the password
17:45 < barometz> no need for cracking unless you're trying to hide the access from someone else :)
17:46 < Pentode> chntpw works pretty good
17:46 < kazdax> hey i  have a chance to join community colledge ...and i have some options
17:46 < kazdax> like
17:46 < kazdax> linux administrator
17:46 < kazdax> Cyber security
17:46 < superboot> Ok, yeah no hiding here. Just need to set a new password. I'll checkout chntpw
17:47 < kazdax> Certificate in network penetration
17:47 < kazdax> software design
17:47 < kazdax> etc etc
17:47 < kazdax> i was thinking of picking linux admin
17:47 < dgurney> and?
17:47 < superboot> kazdax: We are not afraid of long paragraphs. please don't spam the channel.
17:48 < kazdax> okay
17:48 < kazdax> i just thought if anyone was more relevent than any other
17:49 < kazdax> i like to do pen testing but alot of people to ldkme that if i was going to major in something let it not be pen testing instead let it be a CS course and then do certifications in pen testing
17:50 < rascul> kazdax those community college certificates are worthless but the class to get them can have value
17:50 < superboot> Hmm... It looks like chntpw only works up through Windows 8.1. Is there a simmilar utility for Windows 10?
17:50 < kazdax> yea i was thinking from before to do RHCSA and RHCE ...do this linux course just o help me get trainning and these colledges help with getting jobs too
17:51 < rascul> kazdax some community colleges offer real certs though in addition to their junk certs
17:51 < rascul> i've seen some for example that offer cisco certs
17:53 < rypervenche> superboot: chntpw looks to work with Windows 10 as well, they just don't state it on their website.
17:53 < superboot> rypervenche: Ok, thanks. I've also found this: https://askubuntu.com/questions/773489/how-to-use-ubuntu-live-disk-to-reset-windows-10-password
17:57 < Orlando^> 0
17:58 < superboot> Orlando^: 0?
18:00 < jrgilman> Alright, I have an issue, I'm trying to build glabels 3.4.1 from source on 16.04. I'm trying to run the configure portion but it's complaining that I'm missing librsvg-2.0. The only thing that shows up for ubuntu is librsvg2 (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/librsvg). I tried installing librsvg2-bin, but the issue persists. I was wondering if this is because the configure script is looking for it by a different name?
18:01 < jrgilman> Or is it because I should've installed -dev rather than -bin
18:02 < jrgilman> that was indeed the case
18:09 < jml2> jrgilman, you need its -dev when compiling , apt search librsvg |grep dev
18:09 < jml2> jrgilman, "librsvg" that is not a -dev package of course is what you need for "runtime"
18:11 < jml2> jrgilman, the two packages are separate purposes and do not conflict because both are not runtime... so thinking that of the "instead" is a miscalculation :p
18:12 < jrgilman> Thanks, that indeed worked, just trying to figure out the next issue now heh
18:12 < pnbeast> jml2, just out of curiosity, what's your native language?
18:12 < rypervenche> lol
18:13 < jml2> pnbeast, that of the what "curiosity" do you speak? XD
18:13 < jml2> rypervenche, lol
18:13 < pnbeast> Uh, what?
18:14 < pnbeast> I'm not familiar with the characteristics of the way you speak, but then I'm not very expert in the field, either.
18:17 < jml2> from what I know people use to say "soft-ware", and "hard-ware"  before that was eventually dropped.  language is constantly changing when people bring in street-techno jargon when one says "to google" as a verb,...  it's not possible to type eqloquently, that's too boring XD
18:18 < jml2> pnbeast, surprised you would be asking, just look at your president :)
18:18 < jml2> mwahahaha
18:26  * jml2 https://youtu.be/UoCaO2sYooE?t=108  << sweet ACLS supported in mate's caja
18:37 < messiah87> hey all
18:37 < aBound> Hello.
18:37 < messiah87> anybody can assist me to apply patch for GCC in Kali linux?
18:37 < messiah87> i was compiling arm toolchain
18:38 < messiah87> and got error - cfns.gperf:101:1: error: ‘const char* libc_name_p(const char*, unsigned int)’ redeclared inline with ‘gnu_inline’ attribute
18:38 < rascul> messiah87 here, this will help: https://debian.org
18:38 < messiah87> rascul, where it will help?
18:39 < rascul> it will help you when you install an operating system suitable for what you're attempting to do
18:39 < aBound> Isn't there a Kali channel.
18:39 < messiah87> Kali haters
18:39 < messiah87> see...
18:39 < messiah87> well point not in Kali
18:39 < rascul> not a hater, i just recognize the fact that kali is junk for almost everything except a narrowly defined set of tasks
18:40 < aBound> Not so much Kali haters it's a distribution primarily used for pen testing.
18:40 < messiah87> it because i have GCC 7.3.0 and distr with 4.8.2
18:40 < pingnu> But it makes you look like a "hacker"
18:40 < rascul> they don't even build their distro in a sane way, unpackaged crap all over the place, root for everything...
18:40 < messiah87> yeah yeah.. anyway i need to install osmocombb on phone.... and have already working gnuradio
18:41 < phogg> messiah87: Building a compiler toolchain from scratch is no small matter. Why do you need to?
18:41 < messiah87> there same mistake for all linux
18:41 < rascul> no mainstream distro does the crap kali does
18:42 < rascul> for a security related distro, they're not even good at securing the system at all
18:42 < rascul> but i guess for the purposes it's meant for, it doesn't matter so much
18:42 < phogg> rascul: it's not supposed to *be* secure, it's supposed to be used for security related work. It's a weird contradiction.
18:42 < rascul> phogg yeah, i know
18:43 < messiah87> here same issue with other linux
18:43 < messiah87> https://github.com/mxe/mxe/issues/1361
18:43 < messiah87> point not in Kali
18:44 < messiah87> point that my GCC is more new than i using in distr... guys there in link saying that they have patch/fix for it... but im new with GCC... maybe you guys can help me patch mine?
18:45 < messiah87> its like need to download patch/fix and apply in somewhere.... what i came for
18:45 < messiah87> i read a lot about that issue with older GCC... all just applied fix/patch for seconds and continue to compiling..
18:46 < messiah87> i wish i knew how to
18:46 < phogg> messiah87: which specific patch are you applying and to what version of GCC and why does your distribution not supply a version of GCC with that patch included?
18:49 < aBound> Any of you heard of a Linux distribution called: NixOS?
18:49 < rascul> aBound yes, there are people here who have heard of it
18:49 < aBound> The idea behind it seems interesting.
18:50 < aBound> rascul: Figures, it isn't as mainstream I wouldn't have thought anyone would of known.
18:51 < pingnu> NixOS looks really interesting
18:51 < jml2> oh dear
18:51 < jml2> another "kali" user
18:52 < jml2> messiah87, you Mr Robot right?
18:52 < rascul> aBound it's been around for 15 years and i see stuff about it somewhat regularly
18:52 < messiah87> jm12, nope
18:53 < jml2> messiah87, you Mr Robot right
18:53 < jml2> messiah87, you bright
18:53 < jml2> messiah87, have the sight
18:53 < jml2> messiah87, and the might
18:53 < jml2> messiah87, because you know the light!
18:53 < messiah87> and lets then fight?
18:53 < jml2> messiah87, fight for sight?
18:53 < jml2> messiah87, for your "Kali" bright?
18:53 < rascul> fight for the right to party
18:53 < jml2> messiah87, NO WAY!! HOZAY!!!
18:53 < jml2> messiah87, Kali sux!!!
18:54 < messiah87> jm12 ....
18:54 < aBound> rascul: Aha, I just checked Wikipedia initial release in 2003. Funny thing is I never heard about it till now.
18:54 < prussian> powerful
18:54 < messiah87> phogg, here related to this - https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-08/msg00375.html
18:54 < pingnu> "toxicity in the Linux community"
18:54 < jml2> Kali shmite!!
18:55 < messiah87> phogg, im trying to understand where there patch and how to apply it, and from what dir.... im new to linux
18:55 < phogg> aBound: NixOS is more than interesting. Try also GuixSD.
18:56 < phogg> messiah87: do you know whether this patch has been included in some release of gcc? If it has the best thing to do is use that version or newer.
18:56 < aBound> phogg: I never tried NixOS but I'm about to lookup GuixSD on pedia.
18:56 < jml2> he's new to linux and he's trying to compile something on "Kali"
18:56 < jml2> I was right
18:56 < jml2> a Kali shmite
18:56  * jml2 knows he's bright!
18:56  * rascul turns off jml2's light
18:57 < jml2> I know the light!
18:57 < jml2> important to be right!
18:57 < rascul> wow kali's online package search thing appears to be complete junk
18:57 < phogg> aBound: I've been in here raving about nixpkg for years. I tried guix recently as a secondary package manager on a Debian box. For that it works well, for GuixSD it's a bit less nice... if you don't know guile modifying the config can be a challenge, and the install process is highly not for noobs.
18:59 < phogg> I can't remember the last time I saw a Linux distro I could not install without consulting the manual, but guixSD required that.
18:59 < jml2> does guixsd even have an installer yet?
18:59 < jml2> last time I tried it, it didn't.
18:59 < phogg> jml2: not so you'd notice
18:59 < phogg> it has an installer in the form of a command you can run in combination with a config.scm and a root dir
19:00 < phogg> after you've written the config file by hand
19:00 < rascul> phogg were you able to install gentoo the first time without the manual? ;)
19:00 < aBound> phogg: Sounds like it'll complicate matters for those who aren't used to configuring text files here and there.
19:00 < phogg> rascul: yes, but I didn't do it in the early days
19:00 < jml2> (I know there are steps because I've done it -- 2+ years ago :p)
19:00 < aBound> By the way, Happy Mother's Day to all.
19:00 < rascul> phogg ahh ok, it's potentially much easier now
19:00 < phogg> rascul: I can't compare, but it's not impossible now
19:01 < rascul> it's just 3 commands
19:01 < messiah87> phogg, can you explain me how to replace my version of gcc to more old? im not sure that possible..... anyway i still dont know how to apply some fix
19:01 < rascul> http://bash.org/?464385
19:01 < phogg> messiah87: I would recommend initially that you install an older version along side whatever you have now instead. Or, just do not use an older version.
19:02 < jml2> phogg, "The Kali Linux distribution is based on Debian Testing"   and he's new to linux
19:02 < phogg> rascul: yeah, guixSD is worse
19:02 < jml2> phogg, expect package "breakage" on "Testing"
19:02 < phogg> jml2: if you can't help the least you can do is to be funny
19:02 < jml2> phogg, the least thing to do is tell them the right thing.
19:03 < rascul> broken packages on testing might even stay broke for awhile, it can take a bit for sid changes to filter down
19:03 < phogg> jml2: I can't fix stupid. I can only point in the right direction and hope.
19:03 < jml2> he's not using a "stable" distro as a "new user" would expect.
19:03 < jml2> he even said he is a "new user"..
19:03 < phogg> jml2: I know. You've told him, so did rascul. Harping on it helps no one.
19:03 < jml2> well clown away with helping a "Kali" noob on testing for fixing his "gcc" things.
19:04 < phogg> jml2: That is not what I am doing.
19:04 < jml2> you like the assing I can see, but I'll just eat my popcorn for the fun.
19:04 < rascul> just install debian, i bet the problem goes away...
19:04 < autopsy> Ahh haha gcc things.
19:04  * jml2 finds irc entertaining =DDD
19:04  * jml2 munches popcorn *chum chum*
19:04 < messiah87> can somebody kick jml2?
19:04 < messiah87> he annoying
19:05 < jml2> messiah87, no we shouldn't because you are trolling on "Kali"
19:05 < phogg> messiah87: that's unlikely to happen, but you can use /ignore if you do not want to see messages from him.
19:05 < jml2> messiah87, and Kali is not meant to "fix" things like you're doing.
19:05 < messiah87> im not fixing anything
19:05 < rascul> you're trying to climb a mountain by swimming
19:06 < messiah87> its is possible that issue quite simple... there a lot of people i googled passed it with some patch with gcc 6.0
19:06 < messiah87> i have 7.3.0
19:06 < phogg> messiah87: although he is not being nice he is also not materially incorrect. It seems like Kali is not likely to be a distribution you should be using. Are you a security researcher? Are you doing penetration testing and found that existing distributions were too hard to augment with the software you needed?
19:06 < messiah87> and all tutorials is with 4.8 gcc
19:06 < phogg> messiah87: the tutorials are just old
19:06 < blueglass> weird issue, we have some encrypted data. it's been encrypted with an rsa private key. we have the public key and need to decrypt it
19:06 < rascul> yeah, you can patch it, but then you have to build gcc again then build your cross gcc and by this time you could have downloaded and installed debian and just built your cross gcc
19:06 < blueglass> I'm trying openssl rsautl -decrypt -pubin -inkey foo.pub -in <file>
19:06 < messiah87> no new tutorials there
19:06 < blueglass> but it says "A private key is needed for this operation"
19:07 < phogg> messiah87: you should not downgrade GCC unless you specifically need it to compile software that does not compile under newer versions *and* which cannot be fixed
19:07 < messiah87> https://www.pentestingshop.com/gnu-arm-toolchain/
19:07 < blueglass> is there any way to decrypt something with a public key w/ openssl?
19:07 < messiah87> phogg, how to downgrade gcc?
19:07 < rascul> blueglass you need the private key
19:07 < jml2> blueglass, if you know what a private key is.. then you will never get that message
19:07 < phogg> messiah87: It depends on your distribution. I recommend that you *do not  do that*.
19:07 < rascul> blueglass otherwise the whole idea of keypairs is pointless
19:07 < blueglass> jml2: I do know what a private key is. it's been encrypted with the private key
19:07 < jml2> blueglass, btw you got it wrong
19:07 < blueglass> this application does it backwards
19:07 < rascul> you're supposed to encrypt with the public key
19:08 < blueglass> I'm aware
19:08 < rascul> oh wait what am i saying
19:08 < jml2> blueglass, you encrypt with somebody else's public key, and they decrypt it with their own private key
19:08 < blueglass> I know
19:08 < rascul> yeah, that's what i meant
19:08 < jml2> blueglass, that's not what you said
19:08 < blueglass> but in this case, they've managed to encrypt some data with the private key
19:08 < jml2> "<blueglass> weird issue, we have some encrypted data. it's been encrypted with an rsa private key. we have the public key and need to decrypt it"'
19:08 < messiah87> phogg, well guess thats the end of oscommBB installating
19:08 < jml2> blueglass, you decrypt with "private key"
19:09 < messiah87> osmocomBB i meant
19:09 < blueglass> we have the public key though. in theory it's possible to decrypt it with the public key if it's been encrypted with the private key. that's how signing works
19:09 < phogg> messiah87: Why?
19:09 < jml2> blueglass, you're not reading properly kiddo
19:09 < blueglass> jml2: I am
19:09 < jml2> blueglass, public key is public... anybody can get the public key, so what?
19:09 < messiah87> phogg, cuz i need arm toolchain compilated
19:10 < messiah87> to firmware some old motorola phone with osmocomBB
19:10 < blueglass> jml2: I'm aware of the issue. that's why I'm asking here
19:10 < phogg> messiah87: You're trying to use an old toolchain and having problems on a modern distribution. Just use a newer toolchain.
19:10 < blueglass> we have an application that encrypts data with the private key. the developers got it backwards
19:10 < messiah87> phogg can you give me some link?
19:10 < messiah87> so i will read how to install it
19:10 < messiah87> this newbs, you know...
19:10 < messiah87> :D
19:11 < blueglass> unfortunately I did not write the application, but I have to decrypt a couple of these blobs to retrieve some symmetric keys
19:11 < phogg> messiah87: follow the same *process* described in that tutorial but substitute a *current copy* of each tool
19:11 < phogg> messiah87: and do it on top of Debian where newer libraries are easy to obtain
19:11 < rascul> and where stuff doesn't ship broken
19:12 < Sitri> Or install an older distro to a chroot
19:12 < messiah87> i think i will use vmware for new debian, just for toolchain
19:12 < messiah87> phogg thanks for help
19:12 < jml2> everybody here uses vbox, not vmware
19:12 < jml2> vmware is closed proprietary software
19:13 < messiah87> it is same understandable as vmware?
19:13 < jml2> (except those who are into vmware esx things)
19:13 < rascul> eww vbox
19:13 < rascul> better than vmware but still eww
19:13 < jml2> vbox is easy peasy.... i'm sure you'll like it messiah87
19:13 < rascul> just use qemu like you're supposed to, possibly with virt-manager
19:13 < blueglass> I'm basically looking for an "unsign" function. the opposite of "sign" but without any sort of verification
19:13 < jml2> (and scrap focus on that kali crap)
19:14 < dgurney> the kali developers themselves explicitly do not recommend using it as a general distro, and yet people do it anyway
19:14 < dgurney> I wonder why
19:14 < jml2> dgurney, simple
19:14 < messiah87> ok, jml2, i will try.... i will go to test it.. and dont do any rascist shit... it be dangerous
19:14 < jml2> dgurney, only 1 explanation.  And that is because of the tv show "Mr Robot" -- which features it time to time..
19:15 < jml2> dgurney, this is the reason...
19:15 < rascul> blueglass maybe try ##crypto or #openssl
19:15 < phogg> dgurney: because security is big business and is attracting people seeking a paycheck who don't know Linux from TRON
19:15 < jml2> dgurney, it's grown in popularity because of it
19:15 < rascul> jml2 the phenomenon of people using kali for general usage predates mr. robot
19:15 < dgurney> I've never actually watched mr. robot
19:15 < dgurney> am I missing out on anything?
19:15 < rascul> no
19:16 < jml2> rascul, have you been on gplus ? there's a lot of spam around fake linux sites with kali things.
19:16 < jml2> rascul, a lot of "Mr Robot's distribution"
19:16 < rascul> dgurney just some made up linux tools with a weird story
19:16 < phogg> dgurney: the first season is pretty good, but mostly the first episode. I haven't seen anything newer than that.
19:16 < rascul> jml2 i don't understand what you're trying to tell me
19:16 < jml2> so certainly "Mr Robot" plays in a key factor afaict.
19:16 < dgurney> the only reason I've even heard of mr. robot is because of kali and that firefox controversy
19:17 < rascul> kali usage did seem to increase since mr. robot but it was already done in significant numbers from what i saw
19:17 < messiah87> i found some Linaro Toolchain... is that same as ARM toolchain?
19:17 < phogg> dgurney: as a fan of movies, TV and computers I often cringe when watching things that have completely ridiculous computer-y things in them. Mr. Robot in the first episode demonstrated that it wasn't going to be like that and didn't make me cringe. If you have a similar problem you might enjoy it. After that the story may or may not interest you.
19:18 < blueglass> rascul: thanks
19:18 < rascul> phogg are you watching the same mr. robot as i am? they literally made a fake ping tool when the regular one would have done better
19:18 < rascul> that was in one of the first episodes
19:18 < phogg> rascul: I only saw season one
19:18 < dgurney> meh, maybe I'll check it out later
19:18 < phogg> rascul: And anyway, the tech talk is essentially all realistic.
19:19 < phogg> rascul: compared to your average TV drama it's like night and day.
19:19 < rascul> yeah they're much better in general, but then they go and do weird crap from time to time that makes no sense
19:19 < phogg> I'll forgive a few weird things done for narrative device reasons, or which can be explained by it taking place on an Earth that is not quite our own.
19:20 < aBound> I'm off swoosh...
19:22 < messiah87> im curious, why gnu toolchain not in package manager?
19:23 < phogg> messiah87: In which distribution?
19:23 < rascul> in kali? it is
19:24 < blueglass> I figured it out  openssl rsautl -keyform DER -verify -inkey key.pub -pubin -in prt6.data
19:24 < phogg> messiah87: It should be available in pretty much all distributions.
19:24 < blueglass> if anyone was curious :)
19:24 < BluesKaj>  Mr Robot is more like night, it's a very "dark" storyline, they lost me after 5-6 episodes ...not my cuppa tea
19:24 < quul> messiah best guess is that if you uninstall something like ld-linux.so by mistake you're not going to have a productive time
19:24 < messiah87> phogg, synaptic package manger
19:24 < phogg> BluesKaj: I can understand that. Still, I recommend ep1 to anyone tired of bad computers on TV.
19:25 < messiah87> rascul, nope there none
19:25 < phogg> messiah87: synaptic is a GUI front end for apt. It is not a distribution.
19:25 < messiah87> maybe it called somehow different but why
19:25 < messiah87> oh
19:25 < phogg> messiah87: what packages are available in the synaptic GUI depends on which sources you have declared in your sources.list
19:25 < messiah87> i got you
19:25 < messiah87> that GUI jsut
19:25 < rascul> messiah87 so you're saying binutils, gcc, glib and gdb aren't available to you in kali's repos?
19:26 < BluesKaj> phogg, heh, well it's tv and a story at that, lots of "artistic licence" there ..computers included
19:27 < messiah87> rascul, it is... not nothing with name GNU toolchain
19:27 < messiah87> there* is even
19:27 < rascul> the gnu toolchain isn't a package, it's a set of tools that, when put together, make up what is commonly referred to as the gnu toolchain
19:27 < jml2> messiah87, you're too new to be compiling if you don't know the name of the package manager front-ends...
19:27 < messiah87> now i will know
19:27 < rascul> those tools include the ones i listed already, plus some more like m4 and bison
19:28 < messiah87> i have 5 different tutorials - all with gcc 4.8 but
19:28 < messiah87> that already almost all what i need
19:28 < rascul> are any of these tutorials from gcc.gnu.org?
19:28 < messiah87> and i have installed in my package manager - gcc 4.7, gcc 6.1, gcc 7.3.0
19:29 < messiah87> already as i noticed
19:29 < rascul> if you want to build gcc, the docs at gcc.gnu.org are almost certainly the first place you should go to
19:29 < messiah87> i read there a lot already about that issue what i have - all there said patch/fix helped them
19:30 < messiah87> because if im building anything with gcc 5 and later - cant be compiled from distr with 4.8
19:30 < messiah87> so there patch for 6 gcc
19:30 < messiah87> here some - https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-08/msg00375.html
19:30 < rascul> you know, you could already be on debian and building your cross gcc by now, but you're stuck on not reading docs and using a distro that actively works against you
19:31 < jml2> fwiw, he doesn't seem to care that "cross compiling" is not what he's doing
19:31 < jml2> even though he is using the term
19:31 < messiah87> but cant figure out how to install it
19:31 < rascul> i told you earlier
19:31 < rascul> oh, no i didn't
19:32 < messiah87> ok, what debian package you can suggest me?
19:32 < rascul> suggest for what?
19:33 < messiah87> nevermind
19:33 < messiah87> think clean install better anyway
19:33 < rascul> so if you want to apply that patch, first you need the source for the gcc and you use the patch command to apply that in the base directory of the gcc source, then you can build that gcc and use that gcc to build your cross gcc
19:33 < rascul> that's the gist of it, there's a lot of details along the way
19:34 < jml2> install a stable distro in vm, then install all the same tools kali uses ... if you're investing in this amount of time into compiling things, might as well install a stable distro and learn it, while being able to compile with available gcc-things.
19:34 < rascul> without checking, debian's gcc almost certainly has that patch applied and is already suitable for building a cross compiling toolchain
19:34 < rascul> compared to kali, where you have to commit suicide just to get a suitable gcc
19:35 < jml2> rascul, are you sure he's really wants a cross-compile toolchain? doesn't seem to be
19:35 < rascul> jml2 yes, he wants to build stuff for arm
19:35 < jml2> (unless there's something I missed about him using an "embedded" architecture)
19:35 < rascul> or something, or so i though
19:36 < messiah87> what is GNU Make?
19:36 < messiah87> is that not toolchain?
19:36 < dgurney> it's the thing that parses a makefile
19:36 < messiah87> ah yeah
19:36 < jml2> messiah87, there's no way you can be serious.
19:36 < toothe> what's the difference between export VAR="whatever" and set VAR="whatever" ?
19:37 < rascul> toothe the exported one will be available to programs launched from that shell
19:37 < rascul> if it's already exported, you don't need to reexport it when you modify it
19:37 < phinxy> are the exported ones called environment variables or is that something else?
19:38 < phinxy> set VAR="X"; export VAR;
19:38 < phinxy> would that work?
19:38 < toothe> what does 'set' do then?
19:38 < toothe> rascul:
19:38 < rascul> they're all environment variables
19:38 < Psi-Jack> phinxy: In bash, "help set"
19:38 < rascul> phinxy that would work but it's extra typing and an extra command
19:39 < rascul> toothe set is for manipulating the variables, but you don't necessarily need to use it in all cases
19:39 < jml2> Psi-Jack, we have a kali user who wants to cross-compile and he's asking what is GNU make
19:39 < jml2> lol
19:39  * jml2 hides XD
19:39 < Psi-Jack> Yes... I saw...
19:39 < toothe> rascul: so, it holds them in memory?
19:39 < jml2> apparently phogg couldn't see just how lame this "adventure" for messiah87 turned out to be. best is not to help kali users in the first place.
19:39 < rascul> yes
19:40 < jml2> phogg, so that you can save time next time! :))))
19:40 < badsekter> what is kali? another distro?
19:41 < rascul> it's a distro designed for pen testing, not suitable for general usage except people do it anyway
19:41 < noodlepie> phogg, yeah, GUIX-SD looks good; complete I mean, what with transactional package rollback and other neat stuff. I use emacs and screen so am a GNUer by heart - I'd love to try GUIX-SD on the Gentoo I'm running on my Intel 8core i7 laptop but Portage/Emerge is just so convenient there' in Gentoo I mean!
19:41 < noodlepie> That's from a while ago huh! :P
19:43 < noodlepie> make is used to automatically build dependencies in code by compiling only the object which are not built / have changed. Its for scripting compiles of code to runnable applications! @:P-~
19:43 < noodlepie> otherwise you'd be typing "gcc mycode.c" a lot
19:44 < maryo> I have copied the SSH public key to a node using ssh-copy-id but after copying the key to the node when I tried to login it still keeps asking for the password. What am I missing here?
19:44 < noodlepie> But thank God for wildcards *! They can speed things up a bit... "gcc *.c -o MyApp"
19:44 < jml2> maryo, hmm you need to use "-i" with ssh
19:44 < noodlepie> but Make is preferable and has a man page, "man make" and a GNU Info page, "info make"!
19:44 < rascul> maryo does the key have a password?
19:44 < messiah87> vbox using usual iso images?
19:44 < jml2> maryo, -i specifies the private key file
19:44 < rascul> jml2 not necessarily
19:45 < ocnios> Hello
19:45 < rascul> if it's ~/.ssh/id_rsa then ssh will use that for default
19:45 < jml2> maryo, -vvv with ssh shows more debugging output
19:46 < ocnios> I'm trying to find the most elegant, short command to list the largest 10 files ONLY, no directories. I know this isn't built in with a single command, so I need to | pipe to do it. Anyone able to help?
19:46 < ocnios> I've seen posts about using printf '%p %n' but that doesn't seem like it would be the most elegant way
19:46 < maryo> jml2, Password less key.. For example I have copied the public key to the node using this command "ssh-copy-id -i /root/ansible_new_key.pub root@192.168.2.9" and after copying the key, I tried verifying it using "ssh root@192.168.2.9"
19:47 < jml2> ocnios, find -maxdepth 1 -type f -exec du -hs '{}' \; |sort
19:47 < ayecee> ocnios: there's a few steps. figure out how to do each, then combine them. 1. list all files and their sizes, 2. sort the files by size, 3. keep the first 10 lines
19:47 < jml2> maryo, ssh -i
19:48 < jml2> maryo, if ssh-copy-id worked, then you're able to check things like permissions on the remote side
19:48 < noodlepie> ocnios, man ls, man sort, man grep, man head, man cut and man tail. Between them pipe-able commands you should be able to work out how to do it! @:P-~
19:48 < rascul> maryo you're not using ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub so you need to specify the key you want with -i
19:48 < phogg> ocnios: to do it *safely* is quite complicated
19:48 < noodlepie> ls | sort | head -10 as a template
19:49 < maryo> rascul, that makes sense. specifying -i worked o/
19:49 < maryo> thank you jml2 o/
19:49 < phogg> ocnios: broadly you need find with -printf, sort with -z, and some way to simulate either head or tail with null delimited input
19:49 < ocnios> Yeah like I read -exec is a 'dangerous' way
19:49 < jml2> maryo, if the sshd server is strict, then you need to have chmod 700 ~/.ssh (remote side), and chmod 600 ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
19:50 < maryo> jml2, yep that's the permission it has.
19:50 < ayecee> can't really picture how -exec would come into this at all
19:50 < jml2> ocnios, du is not a write tool
19:50 < jml2> ocnios, otherwise yes, it would be dangerous, and you would have to do more prior echo/print tests to be 100% sure about it
19:51 < noodlepie> " ls --file-type -S -l | head -11" does it perfectly
19:51 < jml2> ocnios, the reason why I use ls, is because ls lies on sparse files
19:51 < maryo> rascul, all the time that I need to specify the -i flag?
19:51 < rascul> maryo you can set it up to be automagic in ~/.ssh/config
19:51 < ocnios> jml2: lies?
19:51 < jml2> ocnios, unless you're not knowing what they are or not have any virtualization storage files, in general it shouldn't be a worry
19:51 < maryo> rascul, ok
19:52 < jml2> ocnios, ./why I use du./
19:52 < rascul> maryo i don't recall exactly the syntax needed though, but essentially you're configuring ssh client to automatically use a specific key when you're connecting to a specific user on a specific host
19:52 < phogg> ocnios: find whatever -printf '%s %p\0' | sort -n -t' ' -k1 -z --files0-from=- | grep -zm (for tail simulation) and then you just have throw out the size part you don't want somehow.
19:53 < phogg> ocnios: pretty much https://superuser.com/questions/117596/how-to-tail-the-latest-file-in-a-directory but use size instead of time in the format string
19:53 < ocnios> SO the thing is phogg that I like short commands whenever possible. Some of the working solutions I found seem (to me, and im new) to be needlessly long.
19:53 < jml2> ocnios, what user did you use with ssh-copy-id? (ssh-copy-id  root@_host_  ?)
19:54 < ocnios> jml2: I apologize. I'm new to linux, I don't know what you're talking about with ssh-copy-id
19:54 < jml2> maryo, i meant
19:54 < Psi-Jack> man ssh-copy-id
19:55 < jml2> usually it tends to work, perhaps he copied his pubkey to the wrong account
19:57 < djph> ocnios: or perhaps they're that long because they *have* to be that long...
19:57 < ocnios> so the best I've been able to come up with for myself is
19:58 < ocnios> sudo find / -type f -printf "%m %p\n" | sort -rn | head
19:58 < maryo> jml2, yep that's right root user
20:00 < djph> wait what? why're you letting anyone ssh to root@host?!
20:01 < asdafdsasd> why not
20:01 < asdafdsasd> whats wrong with that
20:02 < Psi-Jack> Everything.
20:02 < ocnios> NEVER give root unless you HAVE to
20:02 < jml2> ocnios, thought you were looking for file sizes -- the manpage explains what format codes you can specify for size...
20:02 < dgurney> even if you use ssh keys instead of passwords, root ssh is never okay
20:02 < messiah87> guys
20:03 < messiah87> newbie question
20:03 < dgurney> it's just an unnecessary gaping security hole
20:03 < messiah87> what i need to install on fresh debian (etc) installation for security measures? like antivurus maybe?
20:03 < phinxy> On TempleOS youre always ring0
20:03 < Psi-Jack> messiah87: Debian actual? Or Kali still?
20:03 < djph> messiah87: depends on what you're gonna use it for
20:04 < messiah87> both!
20:04 < Psi-Jack> Then good luck. :p
20:04 < jml2> messiah87, you sure you're not trying the real Linux? Hopefully you're not using the "WSL"
20:04 < jml2> lol
20:04 < ocnios> jml2: I'm very new.
20:04 < messiah87> is debian full install package about more than 8 gb?
20:04 < jml2> ocnios, that's fine you're new, but you could see "man find<enter>"  and see what printf format options there are..
20:04 < ocnios> thanks!
20:05 < jml2> ocnios, it's merely a change of one of those format letter codes (I know which one :P)
20:05 < ocnios> I didn't know
20:05 < jml2> I don't spoon-feed when I know the answer too easily :))
20:05  * jml2 spoon-feeding kali users is not good too
20:05 < jml2> :))
20:05 < hassoon> ((:
20:06 < messiah87> ://
20:06 < djph> messiah87: last I looked, it was 8-10G for a base install off the DVD.
20:06 < hassoon> \\:
20:06  * hassoon runs
20:06 < messiah87> im downloading 3 DVDs
20:06 < hassoon> ffs mpsyt is not working fine in debian stretch
20:06 < hassoon> damn it all
20:06 < phre4k> :(){ :|:& };:
20:06 < chewzerita> phre4k: noice meme
20:06 < hassoon> things have gotten strange after upgrading from jessie to stretc
20:06 < hassoon> *h
20:08 < hassoon> lmo
20:08 < hassoon> lmao
20:09 < sauvin> lmao(){ echo "Screw you!" }
20:09 < hassoon> ahah
20:09 < hassoon> that could be a php thing
20:09 < sauvin> It's actually pseudocode meant to resemble bash. I don't know that it's actually valid bash.
20:09 < hassoon> not sure if it's bash-valide though, it's been a while since i coded in bash
20:10 < hassoon> oh is it? ö
20:10 < hassoon> that's..nice
20:10 < messiah87> thanks for hints
20:10 < messiah87> i will go
20:11 < pnbeast> Thanks for keeping us apprised.
20:11 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: It is valid bash
20:11 < phinxy> bye.
20:13 < brunch875> hey I was just wondering...
20:13 < ocnios> yeah find maxdepth doesn't really work in my situation
20:13 < ayecee> it's good to wonder
20:13 < brunch875> grub is pointless on EFI, isn't it?
20:13 < ayecee> keep that up
20:13 < ayecee> no, it is not
20:13 < prussian> maybe
20:13 < jml2> ocnios, doesn't have to
20:13 < brunch875> what's the point of grub then?
20:13 < prussian> brunch875: depends what you're doing
20:14 < jml2> ocnios, if you want all files in the current folder it does -- find by default recurses all folders
20:14 < prussian> to load kernels on filesystems that aren't EFI kosher
20:14 < prussian> that's about it
20:14 < ocnios> Yeah i'm trying to list regardless of directory or depth
20:15 < ocnios> looks like im stuck using sudo find / -type f -printf "%m %p\n" | sort -rn | head
20:15 < jml2> phre4k was funny making al those faces tehehe
20:15 < zzero1> I have some different size strings that I get through pipe. How can I print them in 3 columns ?
20:15 < jml2> the fork bomber XDXD
20:17  * rascul drops a bag full of forks on jml2
20:18 < zenix_2k2> sorry but i have an unrelated question, is there any channel that relates to how CPU, RAM and pretty much hardware ??? there are just too many channels here
20:18 < ayecee> maybe ##hardware
20:18 < rascul> zenix_2k2 /msg alis list hardware
20:19 < pnbeast> zenix_2k2, learn to use alis:  "/msg alis help"
20:19 < zenix_2k2> oh right, thank
20:19 < zenix_2k2> and also for that command
20:19 < pnbeast> I'm pretty sure Freenode has webased docs of some kind, too.
20:20 < zenix_2k2> there is ?
20:20 < rascul> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/findingchannels
20:20 < zenix_2k2> ok thank
20:38 < markasoftware> i have a git branch branched from master, i have 29 commits on it, I want to rebase the latest 2 commits on my branch to master, but not the first 27. How?
20:38 < markasoftware> oh crap i can just create a branch from the last commit and rebase that. nvm
20:45 < ocnios> So I'm reading man pages but I can't figure the following out
20:45 < ocnios> Why does -exec \; | work just like -exec + | but take way longer?
20:46 < wadadli> which man page?
20:46 < ocnios> man exec
20:47 < suchmemiL> hi
20:47 < ocnios> I'm trying to understand the difference between:
20:47 < ocnios> sudo find / -type f -exec du -a {} + | sort -rn |head
20:47 < ocnios> sudo find / -type f -exec du -a {} \; | sort -rn |head
20:48 < wadadli> ocnios ▸ check the src
20:49 < rascul> ocnios + puts it all together in one command, \; splits it up a command for each match
20:51 < ocnios> rascul: thank you
20:52 < jml2> show me the money! http://www.tfir.io/richard-stallman-show-me-the-money/
20:52 < jml2> the fourth industrial revolution!!!
20:53 < asdafdsasd>  ██▓███  ▓█████  ███▄    █  ██▓  ██████
20:53 < asdafdsasd> ▓██░  ██▒▓█   ▀  ██ ▀█   █ ▓██▒▒██    ▒
20:53 < asdafdsasd> ▓██░ ██▓▒▒███   ▓██  ▀█ ██▒▒██▒░ ▓██▄
20:53 < asdafdsasd> ▒██▄█▓▒ ▒▒▓█  ▄ ▓██▒  ▐▌██▒░██░  ▒   ██▒
20:53 < asdafdsasd> ▒██▒ ░  ░░▒████▒▒██░   ▓██░░██░▒██████▒▒
20:53 < asdafdsasd> ▒▓▒░ ░  ░░░ ▒░ ░░ ▒░   ▒ ▒ ░▓  ▒ ▒▓▒ ▒ ░
20:53 < jml2> !ops asdafdsasd
20:53 < asdafdsasd> ░▒ ░      ░ ░  ░░ ░░   ░ ▒░ ▒ ░░ ░▒  ░ ░
20:53 < asdafdsasd> ░░          ░      ░   ░ ░  ▒ ░░  ░  ░
20:53 < asdafdsasd>             ░  ░         ░  ░        ░
20:53 < asdafdsasd> please kick this guy
20:53 < asdafdsasd> !ops
20:53 < asdafdsasd> this is a PG rated channel and we have kids here
20:53 < asdafdsasd> innocent families
20:53 < FreeFull> That is indeed a body part
20:55 < fightthewalrus> is there a command that I can use to show the memory specifications of my machine? Like if it's DDR2 or 3, what's the speed, etc
20:56 < wadadli> "reroute the internet through spacex!"
20:57 < kloeri> fightthewalrus: lshw should be able to show that and many other things
20:57 < rascul> fightthewalrus dmidecode maybe
20:57 < rascul> hwinfo might show it also, dunno about that one
20:59 < jml2> fightthewalrus, a nice gui one is called hardinfo, i think it would show this
20:59 < jml2> fightthewalrus, dmidecode would in the command-line
20:59 < rascul> dmidecode might, it can't get all the info about my memory here that lshw seems to get
21:00 < jml2> hardinfo doesnt appear to show it -- i have it installed on my system
21:00 < rascul> oh, well that might be because i didn't run it as root the first time
21:01 < Psi-Jack> Man... Now I really understand the superior badness of storing binary data in git repos. LOL
21:01 < rascul> heh
21:01 < Psi-Jack> Pulling the data from them consumed horrendous amounts of memory.
21:01 < rascul> Psi-Jack there are some tricks that can be done to make it a little less painful though in some cases
21:01 < Psi-Jack> Been converting that stuff to LFS.
21:02 < rascul> LFS?
21:02 < Psi-Jack> rascul: Yep. Thankfully Gitea supports LFS. :)
21:02 < Psi-Jack> git-lfs.
21:02 < rascul> ahh, yeah
21:02 < Psi-Jack> It's a plugin for git itself that stores binary data in a different way, more like a file server instead of version control.
21:02 < rascul> wasn't sure how linux from scratch applied here ;)
21:02 < Psi-Jack> hahah
21:03 < Psi-Jack> I had to up the RAM on my gitea from 512MB to 2GB (so far) just to migrate to LFS.
21:03 < rascul> i'm guessing you've seen this already https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Customizing-Git-Git-Attributes
21:03 < Psi-Jack> I hadn't, no. I went straight to what I knew, which was git-lfs. :)
21:04 < rascul> skipping the docs like a newbie!
21:04 < Psi-Jack> Been meaning to do this for a while. Using BFG to clear out the entire history of binary data, and re-merge it as git-lfs data.
21:05 < Psi-Jack> Dang, 2GB isn't enough RAM. :/
21:05 < Psi-Jack> I might actually have to.... add swap. :/
21:06 < rascul> just download some more https://downloadmoreram.com/
21:06 < Psi-Jack> Heh, my hypervisor host is maxed out giving this instance 2GB RAM. LOL
21:06 < rascul> you can download up to 32GB at a time
21:06 < Psi-Jack> LOL
21:06 < suchmemiL> thank you for the ram i want more
21:06 < suchmemiL> jk
21:06 < rascul> i just downloaded another 16GB for my laptop
21:07 < rascul> DDR4-2400
21:07 < fightthewalrus> thanks kloeri rascul jml2 I'll try these out
21:07 < suchmemiL> but i do need more ram
21:07 < Psi-Jack> Welp, first I'll migrate my gitea server to a HV with more RAM available, then up it to 3GB
21:08 < suchmemiL> just get a decent sized harddrive and just give yourself 10gb+ swap space
21:10 < kloeri> and then let it swap for 3 weeks
21:10 < fightthewalrus> lshw works amazingly, pity for the root need for a complete report. It does show up a bunch of useful info, though
21:10 < Psi-Jack> Gitea is nice though. Once I finish getting this stuff converted to LFS, it'll be even nicer. Also seem to need to migrate the SQLite3 DB to MySQL because of locking issues when using salt with gitfs.
21:11 < jim> well sqlite is single-task, single-connection... dunno how that would need locking (but probably there must be a case if they
21:12 < jim> are going to replace it)
21:12 < Psi-Jack> Whoosh, 3GB seems to be juuuust enough.
21:13 < rascul> it's only a problem with writing, and sqlite can be built multi threaded
21:13 < sauvin> As I understand it, sqlite supports only one writer at a time but can support many readers.
21:13 < rascul> can read as much as you want
21:14 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Yep. Should. But.. It's not exactly happening that way as one would hope. I'm getting locking errors when multiple salt minions try to pull from git at the same time.
21:15 < Psi-Jack> And they are just reading, not writing. Could be session states though since I imagine session data is also in the DB.
21:15 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, in your case, I wouldn't bother trying to find out why. Byebye sqlite, hello PostgreSQL, little bit of rewriting, problem solved.
21:15 < Psi-Jack> I do have some git repos that are privately marked for my salt, so they require login.
21:15 < rascul> yeah sqlite is great until it isn't, then the answer is postgres
21:16 < sauvin> Or at least mariadb. I'm not a fan of mysql.
21:16 < rascul> mariadb or mysql is never the answer!
21:17 < zapotah> it is if you need multi-master clustering
21:17 < zapotah> since there literally isnt anything else
21:17 < zapotah> FOSS anyway
21:18 < rascul> you can do that stuff with postgres
21:18 < Psi-Jack> I've got a master-master Percona setup here presently.
21:19 < Psi-Jack> And ProxySQL is pretty freaking impressive for HA capability.
21:21 < Mistell> Did someone say _gitea_
21:21 < Mistell> ✓ ✓ ✓
21:21 < Psi-Jack> Yes
21:21 < Mistell> I see you're a user of many wisdom, then.
21:23 < Psi-Jack> Yep yep. I was using gogs for a while before. I actually in a way prefer their backup methods to gitea's current methods, but.
21:23 < Mistell> +1 for gogs, too.
21:23 < Psi-Jack> gogs backed up the DB in an agnostic way that could easily be re-imported into MySQL or PostgreSQL or really ANY DB it supported. Gitea just does a raw dump as-is.
21:24 < jml2> floss is the new boss foss for free and opensource software
21:24 < jml2> "floss" >> "foss"
21:25 < Psi-Jack> There we go. Both repos that had binary files are not LFS'ized.
21:25 < jml2> having sqlite is one of the reasons why spectre is more dangerous
21:26 < Psi-Jack> Git-LFS seems to have one downside though. With my zim git-enabled prompt for zsh, it slows down my shell prompt. :/
21:26 < terfysgwr> First time cloning/installing an SSD. The mSATA is installed into the laptop now, and I cloned the HDD to the SSD via a live usb. Haven't resized yet. Anyway, if I select the SSD in boot menu, it appears that it is actually booting into the HDD
21:27 < terfysgwr> (the HDD is sda1, SSD is sdb1 - choosing the SSD lists it as sda1)
21:28 < Nahiyan> 'Ello
21:28 < Nahiyan> so I have an interesting problem
21:28 < Nahiyan> there's this unknown executable on my server
21:28 < Nahiyan> that's runnng at 100%
21:29 < terfysgwr> sda1 shows as being mounted at /, sdb1 shows no mount. Is this the source of the trouble? Been googling but no steps mention this part to me
21:29 < Nahiyan> but get this it's a file /tmp/kssw, but the executable has been deleted
21:29 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, then again, I have gitea using redis for session state. hmmm
21:29 < Nahiyan> it's been running at 100% for the last 16.5 days
21:29 < Psi-Jack> Oh well, I'll see if converting it to mysql helps, anyway...
21:30 < ||JD||> cryptocurrency miner most likely
21:30 < Nahiyan> and I didnt have naything on my server that would be this. And ofc it's super suspicious that its executable was deleted
21:30 < sauvin> Nahiyan, deleting the executable from the filesystem doesn't remove it from memory.
21:30 < Nahiyan> yes I know
21:30 < Nahiyan> it's running under my httpd user
21:30 < Nahiyan> so it probably didnt compromise my server totally
21:30 < Nahiyan> guess I have some vulnerability
21:30 < sauvin> Some folk would feel that *any* compromise is total.
21:30 < Psi-Jack> But NOW!! I can checkout my LFS-enabled repos without 3GB RAM, but merely 512MB like before. :)
21:30 < Nahiyan> meh I'm more practical at this point
21:31 < Nahiyan> it has a connection to an IP and port
21:31 < sauvin> So, how did you come to notice this process?
21:31 < Nahiyan> in canada
21:31 < Nahiyan> I noticed it from top
21:31 < Nahiyan> 100% usage... hard to ignore
21:31 < sauvin> Depends on how many cores you have. :D
21:32 < Nahiyan> 1 core lol
21:32 < Nahiyan> it takes 30 seconds to make an SSH key on this VPS
21:32 < toothe> err...how do I view systemd logs of a program?
21:32 < Nahiyan> so sure i can kill the process
21:32 < toothe> 'service openvpn restart' doesn't like me.
21:32 < Nahiyan> systemctl status openvpn
21:33 < Nahiyan> but I want to
21:33 < Nahiyan> copy off the deleted exe file
21:33 < Nahiyan> analyze it
21:33 < Nahiyan> and see about doing something for the IP address
21:36 < toothe> Nahiyan: It just says 'starting openvpn service...'
21:36 < toothe> that's it.
21:37 < Nahiyan> well
21:37 < Nahiyan> guess thats the only message you got from openvpn
21:37 < Psi-Jack> journalctl -u openvpn
21:38 < Nahiyan> yeah try that
21:38 < Nahiyan> i might be wrong
21:38 < Psi-Jack> Your also hitting enter excessively, like you're in a super rush hurry to hit enter so much.
21:38 < Nahiyan> tap tap tap
21:41 < solidfox> what is the best way to have pinyin input for chinese and input method for russian as well all by the same interface configuration
21:41 < solidfox> maybe with an applet for kde
21:41 < toothe> yeah, journalctl -u openvpn just says "starting openvpn..."
21:41 < toothe> i don't know what configuration files its using.
21:41 < Psi-Jack> I'm sure it says more.
21:42 < toothe> literally that - i can show if I made a mistake?
21:42 < solidfox> I'm going to try ibus
21:42 < Psi-Jack> toothe: Most systemd-based distros, openvpn.service is just a dummy service that runs true. openvpn@.service, however, you use systemctl openvpn@configname to start openvpn using /etc/openvpn/configname.conf
21:43 < toothe> ahh...i had /etc/openvpn/server.conf. Perhaps my mistake.
21:43 < Psi-Jack> So you would likely use openvpn@server
21:43 < Psi-Jack> systemctl status openvpn@server
21:44 < e36freak> O.o
21:44 < ||JD||> Nahiyan: you should rebuild that server unless you find out exactly how it got compromised
21:45 < toothe> https://dpaste.de/7rQt
21:45 < Nahiyan> yeah that's pretty good advice
21:46 < Psi-Jack> toothe: Yep. So that's the actual service unit to be using. It's currently stopped.
21:46 < Psi-Jack> And currently also disabled from starting at boot.
21:47 < toothe> ahh, it works!
21:47 < toothe> thank you.
21:47 < toothe> so basically, you can have multiple instances of a service running with systemd.
21:47 < Psi-Jack> Yep.
21:47 < Psi-Jack> Servers, Clients, etc.
21:47 < toothe> interesting...so why are the BSD guys always hating on systemd?
21:48 < dgurney> toothe, because they don't like it
21:48 < oleo> bloat ?
21:48 < triceratux> creep ?
21:48 < Psi-Jack> toothe: Ignorance. Stupidity. Etc
21:48 < dgurney> whether the reasons for disliking are true or not doesn't matter, that's the only reason
21:53 < Nahiyan> Psi-Jack, yeah server is boned. /root/.ssh/authorized_keys was modified around the same time
21:53 < Nahiyan> and i see a new ssh key from mr. or mrs. canada
21:55 < ayecee> blame canada, eh
22:00 < Nahiyan> well, it's at a hosting service so the perpetrator might not be candian
22:00 < Nahiyan> canadian*
22:00 < Nahiyan> what do you guys reckon will happen if I send them over an email saying what happened?
22:04 < ayecee> probably nothing bad
22:11 < Styil> yo
22:11 < Styil> I am trying to install the ubuntu mainline kernels
22:12 < Styil> do I need to install the linux-modules as well or nah?
22:12 < phinxy> How does a PS2 mouse function in a USB port with a *not-smart* adapter?
22:13 < Styil> phinxy: IIRC it just remaps the inputs of the PS2 to USB and there is hardware on the computer that can translate the inputs
22:13 < Styil> IE it isnt an actual usb signal
22:13 < Styil> smart ones make it a real usb signal
22:13 < phinxy> Styil headers and image should be enough unless some device stops working is my uneducated guess
22:13 < markasoftware> that's how a lot of adapters work but most of the time the computer doesn't translate it properly an dit simply doesn't work
22:14 < Styil> phinxy, might I ask what exacty is the difference between the headers, image, and modules?
22:18 < phinxy> Styil• If i was to guess, headers are just C .h headers of the kernel for programs that want them during compilation.  The image is the vmlinuz .img of Linux.  The kernel has modules which are required to drive some hardware that is perhaps more exotic and did not make it to the compiled in modules?
22:20 < Styil> hmm, well I am getting the following error when trying to dpkg the new kenrel
22:21 < Styil>  linux-image-unsigned-4.17.0-041700rc4-generic depends on linux-modules-4.17.0-041700rc4-generic
22:22 < phinxy> build-equivs to the resque! (bad idea)
22:22 < wr> see all those installers snap pip gem flatpak, advantages?
22:22 < ph88> i ran a command with    runuser -l user -c "myCommand"    but myCommand does a sudo .. now i enter my root password and it doesn't accept it .. is that to be expected ?
22:22 < quesker> I just noticed I can "ip r a" as a user.  /sbin/ip is 755.  how is that possible?
22:23 < sauvin> Headers aren't *necessarily* C .h headers, but yes, they *usually* are.
22:23 < Styil> will anything bad come of me from installing new modules without uninstalling the old for a new kernel
22:23 < Styil> I assume not
22:24 < Styil> since I can choose which kernel to use
22:24 < Styil> but still
22:24 < sauvin> wr, one thing I'd look at is how things are put into their respective repos. Anybody can submit a snap, for example, and in the past day or two, some miners were found in some snaps.
22:24 < sauvin> Styil, I believe modules built for different kernels are stored in different parts of the kernel's tree on the FS.
22:25 < Styil> so it should be safe?
22:25 < sauvin> Always has been for me, yes.
22:25 < sauvin> (note: I don't know for certain).
22:25 < phinxy> GRUB would have an option to boot the old kernel
22:25 < Styil> well aware, just checking
22:35 < Nahiyan> OK I have a question. If I have some file in /tmp/myfile that's kept open in a long-running process
22:36 < Nahiyan> and I delete /tmp/myfile, then the file still exists somewhere, because it's still read and written by the process.
22:36 < Nahiyan> My question is: is there any way to recover that file?
22:36 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: Yes, it exists in memory still if the process is still holding onto it, and you can recover it.
22:36 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: Just don't restart the process.
22:37 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: Do you see the file in "sudo lsof +L1" output?
22:37 < Nahiyan> Actually the deleted file is the process's own executable. Hopefully that can still be recovered. Well logically it should be possible
22:37 < Nahiyan> rypervenche, Yes
22:38 < Nahiyan> it's there
22:39 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: What is the number (and possibly letter) after the username part?
22:39 < Nahiyan> I'll just paste: kssw    15520 httpd  txt    REG  253,1   342388     0  263590 /tmp/kssw (deleted)
22:39 < Nahiyan> I'll just paste: COMMAND   PID  USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NLINK    NODE NAME
22:41 < rypervenche> Hmmm, the FD should be a number.
22:41 < rypervenche> sudo lsof | grep '/tmp/kssw'
22:41 < rypervenche> What does that give? (pastebin if it's more than 1 line)
22:42 < Nahiyan> rypervenche, http://ix.io/1aeK
22:42 < AnAverageHuman> If you know the PID, you can just look around in /proc/PID/fd/ for files, no?
22:43 < rypervenche> AnAverageHuman: That's what we're getting to.
22:43 < Nahiyan> Using this from a stackexchange answer doesn't work: find /tmp -inum 263590 -exec cp {} recoveredfile \;
22:43 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: Because you deleted the file.
22:43 < rypervenche> It won't be in /tmp
22:44 < Nahiyan> Oh... well where then?
22:44 < bomb> Clementine vs Amarok vs Banshee vs Rhythmbox vs Audacius?
22:45 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: You didn't answer my last question.
22:45 < Nahiyan> Oh I gave you a link
22:45 < Nahiyan> OH LOL. It pasted the command instead
22:46 < noodlepie> Amarok, Banshee and Rythmbox are good to try out, pick your favorite!
22:46 < Nahiyan> rypervenche, here's the output to lsof|grep: http://ix.io/1aeM
22:46 < irwiss> bomb: foobar2000 via wine!
22:49 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: Ah, sorry. Try this then. "ls -l /proc/15520/; ls -l /proc/15520/fd"
22:50 < Nahiyan> rypervenche, here's the output: http://ix.io/1aeQ
22:51 < Alexander-47u> hi guys
22:52 < Gragaly> exit
22:52 < Nahiyan> rypervenche, https://snag.gy/kN9gTD.jpg
22:56 < bomb> irwiss: lol, then grandpa's computer will end up with Windows viruses everywhere
22:57 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: Can you try this: cp /proc/15520/fd/exe /tmp/newbinary
22:57 < bomb> irwiss: i think i'm going with Rhythmbox since it's Mint installed currently, and will be switched to Gnome or Xfce soon
22:58 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: Can you try this: cp /proc/15520/exe /tmp/newbinary (sorry, no "fd" in there)
22:58 < AnAverageHuman> bomb: There's also ncmpcpp and other terminal friends.
22:59 < Nahiyan> rypervenche, DOH
22:59 < Styil> alright
22:59 < Styil> I am really stupid
22:59 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: What?
22:59 < Styil> how do I add kernel arguments to my grub.cfg
22:59 < Nahiyan> THAT WORKED. WOW. that was hoenstly easier than expected. I was looking at answers looking at debugfs
23:00 < Nahiyan> daaamn... thank you
23:01 < malina> styil : /etc/grub.d/40_custom for example OR in /etc/default/grub (you have two lines there which are the ones you are looking for).
23:02 < rypervenche> Nahiyan: Grats. Kill your old binary and then move it to its name, chmod 755 to it and you're good to go.
23:02 < malina> then sudo grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg asuming that's the location of the grub file.
23:02 < Styil> I know, but where specifically in said file
23:02 < Nahiyan> Yeah uh it was a virus so I'm not really keen on doing that, but good advice otherwise. Hahaha
23:02 < malina> in default/grub it will be GRUB_DEFAULT_COMMANDLINE if it's for your main linux
23:02 < malina> the other one (omitting) DEFAULT would be I htink for all linux entries
23:03 < malina> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT*
23:03 < Nahiyan> Ahhh.. it seems the virus got into my server through drupal!
23:04 < malina> there you can add init=/bin/false root=/dev/null loglevel=1 kernel.lies=1 and so on
23:05 < Styil> after the linux /boot/vmlinuz...?
23:05 < Styil> There is no GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT in my grub.cfg
23:05 < Styil> at least if VIM is to be believed
23:06 < mgolisch> yeah its in /etc/default/grub
23:06 < Styil> ah
23:06 < Styil> figured it out
23:06 < Styil> was looking in /boot/grub
23:07 < malina> you CAN edit the grub.cfg file directly, or even during grub, jhust push e for example
23:07 < malina> to edit the line
23:07 < malina> although that is temporal (and editing the file itself will be overwritten during next run of grub-mkconfig)
23:07 < Styil> and I would just append my kernel arguments to the grub file, right?
23:07 < malina> to that line yes
23:07 < malina> and run update
23:26 < autopsy> How do I paste the clipboard to Eterm?
23:27 < autopsy> There is a keyboard ctrl-v or something. ctrl-v no.
23:27 < superboot> autopsy: Usualy control-shift-v
23:28 < bomb> thanks AnAverageHuman but i doubt my grandpa is familiar with linux terminal :)
23:33 < nafg> Hi, after upgrading ubuntu to 18.04 it won't boot (into graphics anyway). How can I troubleshoot linux not starting?
23:34 < jim> nafg, what does it boot into?
23:34 < wadadli> what's a screen recording utility with support for audio?
23:34 < prussian> nafg: nonfree nvidia drivers?
23:35 < nafg> jim: it gets to a point where the screen keeps flashing between 3 modes every few seconds, off (no backlight), blank (with backlight) and with a bit of text
23:35 < nafg> prussian: hmm that could be. How do I switch from root shell?
23:35 < nafg> from recovery mode
23:35 < noodlepie> nafg, disable 16 color VGA driver, enable framebuffer for your device, enable EFI Framebuffer in make menuconfig and rebuild
23:35 < nafg> rebuild?
23:36 < noodlepie> the kernel modules in /usr/src/linux
23:36 < jim> nafg, maybe root
23:36 < jim> err
23:36 < nafg> i don't build from source
23:36 < jim> maybe root's home dir has an x log file? you can see if it's current by running ls -l in that dir
23:37 < jim> if it's a hidden file, try ls -la
23:37 < nafg> i can check. btw I just did failsafeX from the recovery menu and I saw an error about no screens found
23:37 < nafg> I think the nvidia driver hypothesis is worth eliminating first
23:37 < nafg> I need to get to a RW root prompt though
23:37 < prussian> well
23:38 < prussian> are you using nvidia?
23:38 < triceratux> nafg: when you boot say "xforcevesa" to the bootloader. that might at least get a minimal x11 session up & let you troubleshoot the config. may have to say "nomodeset" as well
23:38 < nafg> you mean add params in grub edit screen?
23:39 < triceratux> nafg: yep
23:39 < jim> are you in grub shell?
23:39 < nafg> not a shell, just pressed E in the menu. Let's see what happens now
23:39 < noodlepie> nafg, you might have to, to set the correct modules
23:39 < jim> oh I se
23:39 < noodlepie> build from source, I mean! @:P-~
23:40 < nafg> yeah but that's last resort for me ;)
23:40 < nafg> triceratux: didn't work
23:41 < nafg> how do I remount fs as rw
23:41 < triceratux> nafg: thats always the first thing to try tho. on to bigger problems
23:42 < jim> nafg, does something say it's not r/w?
23:43 < nafg> the ubuntu recovery mode defaults to ro
23:44 < nafg> ok remounted as rw
23:44 < nafg> now how do I change nvidia driver
23:45 < phinxy> What does a : mean when setting a variable in bash?  eg. export X=Y:Z
23:46 < jim> I think it's mount -o remount,rw / ?
23:47 < jim> phinxy, the Y:Z must be some sort of expression that gets evaluated, the result of whick is assigned to X
23:48 < iceb0x> doesn't Y:Z just mean all letters between Y and Z?
23:48 < sinatrablue> not all m.2 drives are nvme?
23:49 < sinatrablue> i cant seem to get nvme support to show up on my m.2 drive
23:49 < nafg> Any way to get wifi working from the command line?
23:51 < rypervenche> nafg: Sure, there are several ways. What distro?
23:51 < nafg> ubuntu
23:53 < rascul> phinxy the : means nothing in that case, X will be set to "Y:Z"
23:54 < rascul> : is used in parameter expansion, but that is enclosed in ${}
23:54 < nafg> I uninstalled nvidia-related packages and it's still not booting
23:54 < rascul> https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html#Shell-Parameter-Expansion
23:55 < rascul> nafg you just went from wifi not working to the system not not booting, nobody can help you if you're jumping all over the place
23:55 < nafg> rascul: I'm not jumping all over the place, you just came in in middle of a long discussion
23:56 < rascul> yep, looks like you're right, i didn't scroll back any
23:56 < triceratux> nafg: you might have a stale /etc/X11/xorg.conf which has to be renamed to get it out of the way. just a guess
23:56 < nafg> triceratux: so what do you suggest?
23:56 < triceratux> nafg: see if its there for starters
23:57 < nafg> ok
23:57 < nafg> idk why everything is taking so long, it's not a slow computer
23:58 < nafg> a bunch of logs related to ZFS which i don't use, idk if that's slowing it down
23:58 < nafg> Starting Install ZFS kernel module
23:58 < nafg> and a bunch more
23:58 < triceratux> nafg: youll want to read thru the /var/log/Xorg.0.log. it might describe where x11 is choking
23:58 < rascul> if you're not using zfs, having the kernel module loaded shouldn't be affecting anything
23:59 < nafg> I think it's slowing things down though
23:59 < nafg> or else something after it is, and it's silent
23:59 < rascul> then unload it with rmmod
23:59 < nafg> is that permanent?
23:59 < rascul> until boot
--- Log closed Mon May 14 00:00:00 2018