--- Log opened Wed May 16 00:00:09 2018
--- Day changed Wed May 16 2018
00:00 < imchairmanm> graff: I went through this guide https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-and-configure-gitlab-on-ubuntu-16-04
00:00 < graff> imchairmanm: alright I will try that, i can spin up an instance of ubuntu I think
00:00 < graff> thank you
00:00 < imchairmanm> graff: no problem, good luck
00:01 < superboot> Hi all. My sound isn't working on linux. alsamixer reports "cannot open mixer" and pavucontrol lists only a dummy device. lspci lists no sound device. What is the next troubleshooting step?
00:02 < graff> my collaborators really want this CI stuff, nothing else is going to work. so sadly I need to just drop everything until I get this
00:02 < jml2> superboot, aplay -l , lists audio devices
00:02 < bls> what is gitlab actually providing for that process?
00:03 < graff> bls: idk tbh
00:03 < imchairmanm> gitlab has a builtin CI/CD platform
00:03 < graff> yeah that
00:03 < graff> it seems more convenient than having a seperate jenkins system
00:03 < strixdio> I am using iscsi target (tgtadm) with zfs zvols. the zvols volblocksize is 8k, but the iscsi target is 512. Should the iscsi target "match" the zvol, or should the zvol be set to match 512? or does it matter?
00:03 < bls> ah, always used jenkins/travis/etc
00:03 < graff> and more streamlned than simply writing something similar yourself
00:04 < superboot> jml2: "No soundcards found".
00:04 < graff> bls: wel maybe that is what I should be studying on. regardless this is the way we are used to, we just lost our sysadmin
00:04 < graff> so I am goign to need to learn to be the new one. which is better anyway because i can manage my private keys
00:05 < ananke> graff: or just use centos
00:05 < jml2> superboot, was your audio workign previously?
00:06 < superboot> jml2: Yeah, up until a few weeks ago. I don't use the system alot, so I don't know what could have changed between then and now.
00:07 < jml2> superboot, a few weeks without sound? that's preposterous!
00:07 < superboot> jml2: Haha! I mean it sat on a shelf for 2 weeks.
00:07 < jml2> superboot, can you get sound when you use a live-boot linux?
00:07 < superboot> Hmmm.. That's a good idea. I'll see if I can test it.
00:07 < jml2> superboot, that'll be easiest to do and determine if sound should basically work
00:08 < superboot> It works on the Windows side of my dual boot.
00:08 < superboot> But yeah, for linux I'll try a live cd
00:08 < graff> sometimes windows has access to propreitary switches for devices that linux doesn't have
00:08 < graff> never heard of it for a sound card, but for wifi cards i have
00:09 < graff> so in these cases you generally just have to make sure it has been turned "on"
00:09 < jml2> superboot,  aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Center.wav    -- i suppose sometimes this .wav file could be on live-boots , other wise just find / |grep -i wav$
00:09 < jml2> superboot,  also issue "aplay -l" in the live-boot to see what it shows as audio device
00:10 < rascul> seems like a useless use of grep there
00:10 < jml2> rascul, uh ok
00:10 < graff> grep -r
00:10 < graff> grep -r 'pattern' /
00:10 < jml2> rascul, live-boots can have any .wav file anywhere -- he can be certain to do a quick "aplay" test of a .wav file without taking extra unnecessary steps
00:11 < jml2> not pattern
00:11 < jml2> "file".
00:11 < jml2> lol
00:11 < graff> POSIX grep is specified to have this option
00:11 < graff> jml2: ?
00:11 < jml2> graff, he's not grepping a string from a file
00:11 < rascul> find / -name '*.wav'
00:11 < jml2> rascul, well that's more typing :)
00:11 < jml2> rascul, unnecessary typing XD
00:12  * jml2 -_-
00:12 < rascul> actually it's the same
00:12 < rascul> both are 20 characters ;)
00:12 < superboot> Haha what are the odds of that!
00:13 < jml2> superboot, they're noobs don't worry :)
00:13 < rascul> and there's one less keypress with find, since you only have to use shift once ;)
00:14 < superboot> Booting into live cd...
00:15 < graff> for i in /* /*/* /*/*/* /*/*/*/* ; do case $i in *.wav ) echo $i ;; *);; esac ; done
00:16 < graff> in case you are stuck in the shell with no access to grep or find or ls or anything
00:16 < revel> I think you could use a bit of find there instead...
00:17 < revel> Right, no find.
00:18 < rascul> probably better to use a recursive function to properly get all the sub directories, but if you don't have find available, it's possible you have bigger issues than locating a wav file
00:18 < graff> i can write a recursive version if you like
00:18 < rascul> not necessary
00:18 < revel> lol, yeah.
00:18 < graff> not sure it will be any better though
00:19 < graff> maybe a litle
00:19 < jml2> if he access to any .wav file that is fine , he just wants to see if his audio card works
00:19 < jml2> so easier to just try a live-boot and play a .wav right away if aplay -l lists the device
00:19 < jml2> very simple
00:19 < jml2> he said he doesn't recall what he did/updated his actual system 2 weeks ago.. and i'm not interested on hunting what he did to break audio
00:20 < jml2> (his aplay -l , doesn't list audio devices)
00:30 < superboot> jml2: Hmm... same situation on a live disc. rebooting into hdd os
00:30 < jml2> superboot, lspci lists your audio chip in any way?
00:33 < superboot> jml2: Ok, back in the real os, lspci now lists: Audio device: Inel Corporation Device a171 (rev 31).
00:34 < superboot> jml2: And vlc plays an audio file, but it is choppy... very strange
00:34 < jml2> superboot, do me a favor. when you do a boot, make sure it is power-off then power-on --- sometimes devices dont work without first do it this way
00:35 < jml2> superboot, it looks like you can get it to work partially. so that's a good thing.
00:35 < jml2> superboot, but I never told you to use vlc to test things
00:35 < jml2> superboot, you're diverging :P LOL .. i'll let others to help you ;-)
00:35 < jml2> hahaha
00:36 < superboot> jml2: Haha I'll try aplay.
00:36 < jml2> superboot, good luck
00:38 < superboot> Did jml2 realy log off?
00:40 < headrx> hello
00:41 < jonan> i'm trying to build a package, and i'm
00:41 < jonan>                getting a build error of -Werror ( a
00:41 < jonan>                warning) being treated as an error. I can't
00:41 < jonan>                find in the PKGbuild script anywhere the
00:41 < jonan>                section to remove this, it's the
00:41 < jonan>                telegram-CLI package from the AUR
00:41 < jonan> oh my god im sorry
00:42 < headrx> im trying to utilize notify-send , and for some reason, cant get it to work. my browsers can do it, but not thru command line.. installed notify-send and all the similiar packages
00:42 < headrx> any advice?
00:46 < phogg> headrx: desktop notification is silly, just don't do it
00:46 < headrx> it would be handy
00:46 < phogg> headrx: but seriously maybe your shell environment does not have the right env vars
00:46 < headrx> its not necessary, its just irks me it doesnt do it
00:46 < phogg> notify-send relies on dbus, right? It would need to know what to contact
00:46 < headrx> hmm
00:46 < headrx> so what does that mean
00:47 < headrx> rather, how to i edit the env ,, i know its usr/bin/env
00:47 < phogg> headrx: It means there's probably something wrong you can fix. Do you get an error?
00:47 < phogg> no, /usr/bin/env is a program which can display your environment (among other things)
00:48 < phogg> to change your environment in a shell you set environment variables
00:49 < headrx> PATH = balhb;ah:$PATH
00:49 < headrx> but what in specific would i need to edit ?
00:49 < phogg> headrx: I've no idea, I'm just speculating
00:49 < headrx> phogg: no errors at all
00:50 < headrx> it seemingly works, its just not doing anything
00:50 < phogg> headrx: run dbus-monitor and then try notify-send in another terminal. Do you see the message cross the bus?
00:51 < headrx> alright, one sec
00:52 < headrx> ya it shows
00:53 < phogg> headrx: okay so either the notification daemon is not listening to the same bus or it's ignoring the message
00:58  * Acheron waveS to stevendale 
01:00 < headrx> still not working
01:00 < headrx> screw it lol
01:23 < xz> how do I put linux system to s3 sleep from cmd line?
01:24 < Sitri> xz: Should be a 'suspend' command
01:25 < jonan> systmctl suspend if you want systemd to do it
01:25 < jonan> assuming you have systemd on your distro
01:29 < xz> localhost ~ # suspend
01:29 < xz> -bash: suspend: cannot suspend a login shell
01:29 < xz> that's what I get, I'm connected to a board over physical UART wire
01:29 < ayecee> systemctl suspend
01:30 < xz> I don't have systemctl on that system :/ it's some debug version of chromeOS
01:30 < ayecee> maybe this isn't the best channel for you then
01:31 < xz> is this only for systemctl distros?
01:31 < ayecee> that particular command, yes
01:32 < ayecee> i think there's a frob in /proc or /sys that you can echo something to to suspend
01:32 < ayecee> if you have those
01:32 < xz> I have /proc/acpi/wakeup
01:33 < ayecee> echo S3 > /sys/power/state, maybe
01:34 < ayecee> /proc/acpi/wakeup determines what wakes a system from suspend
01:35 < Kharma> xz you know with a Chromebook/ChromeOS already in developer mode, installing Linux ontop- or duel booting it is easy.. as long as it's not ARM based :/
01:35 < ayecee> dueling boots
01:35 < ayecee> who will win
01:36 < Kharma> lol
01:36 < xz> I get  -bash: echo: write error: Invalid argument  on echo S3 > /sys/power/state ; and state is regular file 0644; I execute command as root
01:37 < Kharma> I run Xbuntu and ChromeOS on my Acer R11, which is my only PC actually.
01:37 < ayecee> then your system doesn't support S3 sleep
01:37 < xz> ok, thanks for help on that one
01:38 < revel> Kharma: There's some ARM-based distros as well.
01:38 < revel> Or, well, probably better luck with a bigger distro with ARM support.
01:39 < ayecee> ARM doesn't support S3 sleep though
01:39 < ayecee> because arm doesn't have acpi
01:39 < revel> Are they usually armv7 or aarch64?
01:40 < Kharma> I guess by now I should have known that, up to a few months ago it wasn't even possible to root ChromeOS for Android apps.. now it is so running something like Deploy Linux on an Android supported ChromeOS is doable.
01:40 < Kharma> Tehnology flies these days
01:41 < revel> I'd rather have native performance.
01:41 < Kharma> Isn't deploy Linux quite native? Unlike Termuc
01:42 < Kharma> Termux*
01:42 < revel> If native performance isn't great, then overhead is even worse.
01:42 < ayecee> just when you learn it all, they change all
01:42 < revel> Actually, Termux is quite native. It compiles everything with Android's libc and all.
01:42 < revel> Unless you use proot and all that stuff.
01:43 < revel> I think Deploy uses a loopmounted disk device and chroot or something?
01:43 < Kharma> I was under the opposite understanding. I didn't even know you could compile in Termux! Thought you were at the mercy of it's pkg manager
01:43 < mawk> what a very bad name, proot
01:43 < revel> Anyways, by "native performance", I meant "real Linux distro", not "some Android app on your Chromebook"
01:44 < ayecee> "some Android app on your Chromebook" is essentially a chroot.
01:44 < ayecee> it's effectively native.
01:44 < revel> You can compile in Termux, sure, but the precompiled stuff also links against Android's libc.
01:45 < ayecee> but unlike pure native, you can still run android apps
01:45 < revel> ayecee: All those funky workarounds for stuff and Android's libc... Yeah, I don't know.
01:45 < ayecee> also you don't have to mess around with a bootloader.
01:45 < ayecee> arm is not a very plug and play architecture.
01:46 < granttrec> any one familiar with maven rpm plugin?
01:46 < ayecee> one way to find out is to ask a question about maven rpm plugin
01:46 < revel> Hmm. Isn't zeroing your disk basically game over with ARM since they don't have something like BIOS or ARM?
01:46 < ayecee> yeah
01:46 < revel> Yeah... I found that out the hard way :D
01:47 < ayecee> me too :D
01:49 < ayecee> fortunately this one had a backup bootloader
01:49 < ayecee> unfortunately i overwrote that too
01:50 < koala_man> hahalol
01:50 < Kharma> I love the look and feel of ChromeOS so I wanted to run Linux in a chroot via Crouton.. but after researching all my options, I decided to go the duel booting route, can't remember why..
01:50 < Kharma> there must have been disadvantages to Crouton that I can't remember nnow
01:50 < ayecee> dual*
01:51 < revel> Ah, duel booting. Do the OSes fight over who gets to boot? :D
01:51 < ayecee> there can be only one
01:51 < curiousx> Hey hey hey!
01:51 < Kharma> Ctrl D boots me to ChromeOS, Ctrl L puts me in Linux
01:51 < quul> two boot loaders enter, one os leaves
01:51 < Kharma> At the dev mode ChromeOS screen
01:51 < ayecee> nice
01:53 < Kharma> My Chromebook is 4G Ram, 32G HD, and I only partitioned 10G for Linux, and it's all been perfect
01:54 < Kharma> I use ChromeOS often still, usually for Android apps
01:54 < Kharma> GB*
01:54 < ayecee> i wonder if there's a way to run android apps in a chroot
01:54 < revel> On Linux? I don't think so.
01:54 < ayecee> probably tricky
01:55 < Kharma> They technically already run in their own container on Chrome OS.. unless you mean to do so from Linux ?
01:55 < ayecee> yes, from linux
01:55 < revel> I'd rather get an emulator and call it a day.
01:56 < ayecee> this from the guy who was saying native or nothing
01:56 < revel> I think it even took ChromeOS a while to get there too.
01:56 < jonan> if i succesfully compiled a package in another system, can i port that package to another system without compiling it on the second?
01:56 < ayecee> jonan: sometimes yes
01:56 < revel> "port" being "copy over"?
01:56 < jonan> revel: yes
01:56 < ayecee> port means something else
01:56 < revel> What language?
01:56 < mutante> the chance is higher the closer the 2 systems are in software and hardware versions
01:57 < Kharma> If I could run Android apps from Linux, I would probably redo my firmware so I could use a full ROM and give Linux my entire Chromebook
01:57 < jonan> yeah, i misused the word
01:57 < jonan> the program is written in C
01:57 < jonan> both systems run arch linux
01:57 < spkd> same cpu architecture?
01:57 < p0a> Hello, what's a good channel to talk about general open-source stuff?
01:57 < jonan> spkd:  should be
01:57 < ayecee> p0a: ##chat
01:57 < p0a> ayecee: thanks
01:57 < jonan> they both run on a x86 processor but beyond that i'm not sure
01:57 < spkd> you might be good.. copy it over and cross your fingers.
01:58 < revel> jonan: Unless you had some compiler flags like -march=native, probably.
01:58 < jonan> funnily enough compiling it on system1 directly from the AUR had no issues, on system2 the flags -Werror and such were throwing things around. even disabling these flags made the build fail
01:59 < jonan> the software seems to be abandoned too unfortunately
01:59 < revel> -Werror makes it throw an error instead of a warning when it encounters a warning (which can usually be pretty benign)
02:00 < revel> And errors stop the compile completely. And newer versions of gcc are more likely to throw errors at smaller things.
02:00 < revel> s/errors/warnings/
02:00 < jonan> revel: i tried removing -Werror, and started getting slightly more fatal ones it seems :D
02:00 < revel> Err, whatever.
02:00 < revel> jonan: Well, maybe just using an older version of gcc could work, but I don't know if you can do that on Arch.
02:02 < revel> Though if you can just copy it over anyway, it could work. AUR spits out regular pacman packages anyway, so you could easily remove it if it doesn't work, right? I think?
02:02 < jonan> yeah i should be able to easily remove it if it doesn't work, i don't see why not, but i'm not sure at this point how i'd copy it over
02:02 < jonan> where's the AUR's default location that it builds its packages into?
02:02 < jonan> as in, which directory?
02:03 < revel> Dunno. Ask the Arch channel.
02:03 < revel> Or consult the wiki.
02:03 < jonan> yeah i'll be on that now, thanks
02:23 < Celmor> I'm trying to limit network bandwith but the tc command fails for my physical nic but works for a bridge interface
02:23 < Celmor> is shaping only possible for a bridge?
02:24 < mawk> what is the error ?
02:24 < Celmor> Unknown qdisc "enp0s31f6", hence option "root" is unparsable
02:24 < Celmor> I'm trying the commands from https://serverfault.com/questions/174010/limit-network-bandwith-for-an-ip
02:27 < curiousx> guys, i'm testin' something, could you please send me a message tab-completing my nick
02:27 < sujeet> curiousx:
02:27 < curiousx> Works!!!, thanks sujeet
02:28 < curiousx> i was settin' colours for my irssi theme :p
02:29 < azx> how can i customize dolphin to show a progress bar somewhere else other than the icon
02:29 < curiousx> sorry azx imma i3 user :'(
02:29 < azx> because the icon is too small
02:29 < azx> wat
02:30 < revel> He uses an i3 Intel processor. Feel sad for him.
02:30 < revel> :D
02:30 < curiousx> xD no, i3 is a window manager
02:31 < azx> i'm sorry for ur misfortune
02:31 < curiousx> thanks, what a kind words of you :')
02:34 < Psi-Jack> Except that "ur" is not an actual word.
02:34 < quul> it's shortened version of u r
02:34 < Sitri> Actually it is, he just horribly misused it
02:35 < Kharma> I had heard good things about i3.. no?
02:35 < quul> i don't know you could be lying?
02:35 < Psi-Jack> Except that both "u" and "r" are also not words.
02:36 < quul> they are when you separate them
02:36 < quul> u and r
02:36 < Psi-Jack> No. They are not. They are letters.
02:36 < Kharma> They are letters..
02:36 < quul> what about I?
02:36 < quul> I is a letter
02:36 < Aph3x-WL> all words are letters
02:36 < Sitri> It's also one of two letters that are also words
02:36 < Psi-Jack> I, by itself also has a meaning beyond just being a letter.
02:37 < rascul> I is both a letter and a word
02:37 < Psi-Jack> ^
02:38 < curiousx> Linux is the word of love brothers
02:38 < azx> would kde or the file manager have an option to change file transfer progress bar behavior
02:38 < azx> or would it be a seperate app that triggers
02:38 < azx> based on conditions
02:38 < Kharma> Google "is r a word" "is u a word" and notice that "is I a word" comes up with a proper definition at the top of Google.
02:41 < quul> Kharma: definition says "there are no rules governing how many letters have to be in a word to make it a word."
02:41 < quul> and its just a quora link, lol
02:42 < Kharma> Did you read the entire article from which that came from?
02:42 < quul> no because it's a waste of time
02:43 < Kharma> http://i.imgur.com/PClojLu.png that's what I meant... a definition does not come up for U or R
02:43 < jfe> do you think gentoo will continue to have a place as commoditized hardware/cloud computing grows?
02:44 < jfe> e.g. i don't know of anyone using gentoo in aws
02:44 < rascul> i suspect most gentoo usage has always been on desktops and laptops, and will continue to be that way
02:45 < justsomeguy> It's probably also used on unusual hardware that doesn't have a lot of precompiled packages available, too.
02:46 < mouses> Kharma: been using i3 for a couple years, totally love it
02:49 < Kharma> The distro I use will be releasing a full update soon to support the new LTS, they currently use KDE.. they put up a thread for community suggestions for software etc and one of the devs is intrigued with i3 so it may be in the running to be the default DE on install.
02:50 < Psi-Jack> But, i3 is not a DE.
02:51 < Kharma> ? Then I am confussed :O  It wouldn't replace KDE?
02:51 < Psi-Jack> No.
02:51 < Kharma> DM I meant
02:51 < Psi-Jack> i3 is just a window manager.
02:51 < Psi-Jack> Not a DM, not a DE
02:51 < Psi-Jack> DM == Display Manager, DE == Desktop Environment, WM == Window Manager.
02:52 < Kharma> :o It was suggested to be a replacement for our current KDE/Xfce arrangment
02:52 < Psi-Jack> Then it was an incomplete suggestion.
02:53 < Psi-Jack> i3 has no file manager, no widget set, no text editor, no terminal, no software, besides itself.
02:55 < mawk> dnssec ruins my privacy
02:55 < mawk> I just noticed that by following the NSEC chain on my domain name, one can get every subdomain
02:55 < Psi-Jack> Yep.
02:55 < mawk> even the subdomains in *.intra.mydomain
02:56 < Psi-Jack> Plus it makes a great UDP-based reflection DDoS amplification attack.
02:56 < mawk> I should at least use a separate unsigned zone for that
02:56 < mawk> how ?
02:56 < mouses> Kharma: Right, what Psi-Jack said - i3 is not a DE, it's a window manager - you still run a DE
02:56 < mouses> Kharma: I use XFCE4+i3-gaps
02:56 < Psi-Jack> Spoof the origin as is pretty easy with UDP, Request a zone. Target.
02:56 < Psi-Jack> You still /can/ rather.
02:57 < Psi-Jack> You don't technically have to. :)
02:57 < mawk> by requesting every RRSIG ?
02:57 < Psi-Jack> And ewww, gaps.
02:58 < mawk> some nameservers still accept ANY, it does the same
02:58 < mouses> Psi-Jack: oddly enough, I rarely use the gaps part :)
02:58 < mawk> at least dnssec forbids use of ANY
02:59 < Psi-Jack> Of course, the bigger the zone, the bigger the amplification potential.
02:59 < Psi-Jack> Unlike a memcashed attach, one cannot simply inject data to be re-played back to a target.
02:59 < Psi-Jack> memcached*
03:00 < mouses> Kharma: random screencap showing off xfce4+i3 = https://imgur.com/a/qe39dSa
03:00 < ayecee> thankfully the size of the response is limited by the size of a udp packet
03:00 < mouses> Kharma: I really love i3
03:00 < ayecee> probably less than that even
03:00 < mawk> if it overflows it transitions to TCP ayecee non ?
03:00 < mawk> but no data will be sent over tcp normally
03:00 < ayecee> mawk: it responds saying "ask via tcp", yeah
03:00 < mouses> Kharma: if you give it a try and need any help, let me know!
03:00 < ayecee> yes, data is sent over tcp
03:01 < ayecee> iirc if the response is over 512 bytes it says "ask via tcp"
03:01 < ayecee> which means most transactions involving crypto material go over tcp
03:02 < mawk> I mean in case of spoofing
03:02 < ayecee> in case of spoofing, the target receives the "ask via tcp"
03:02 < mawk> ah
03:03 < ayecee> it's not like the dns server initiates a tcp connection to the querier
03:03 < ayecee> can you imagine
03:03 < mawk> lol
03:05 < Kharma> mouses that's an unedited screencap? That's awesome! That's actually something I need!
03:05 < mouses> Kharma: totally unedited except for me pixelizing my channel list!
03:06 < mouses> Kharma: what I love about it - rarely if ever do you even need to use the mouse
03:06 < Kharma> seriously?!
03:06 < Kharma> Shweeeyt
03:06 < mouses> Kharma: for reals :)
03:06 < mouses> Kharma: just takes a few days of getting used to
03:07 < mouses> Kharma: and you get another advantage, even if some random windows/mac user manages to steal your computer, and somehow login - they will never be able to figure out how to even launch a program :)
03:08 < Kharma> hehehe.. maybe weeeks, I'm still trying to understand "screen".. I use a lot of terminal programs (irssi, mutt, moc, googler, lynx.. etc)
03:08 < p0a> screen is pretty nice
03:09 < p0a> but you can also just use multiple terminals in a tiling window manager
03:09 < Kharma> ! Didn't think like tha
03:09 < Kharma> that*
03:09 < p0a> well that's a bit of what screen does. it does more but for user experience it's kind of the same
03:09 < mouses> screen is super useful!
03:10 < mouses> Kharma: i3 is a lot easier to learn than figuring out screen, in my very humble opinion
03:11 < irwiss> i find tmux slightly more useful than screen
03:11 < mouses> irwiss: The only time I really use screen is when I am too freaking lazy to nohup things server side lol
03:11 < mouses> and for my weechat session
03:11 < mouses> that way when my stupid home ISP craps out I can just log back in and re-attach
03:11 < Kharma> It is, but my keyboard commands must "duel" eachother or something, or screen can't grab them.. because I've tried to follow some how to's on split screening and well.. I'm having trouble splitting screens. mostly vertically, in screen
03:12 < ayecee> duel screen
03:12 < mouses> screen screen screen
03:12 < p0a> Kharma: use capital letters for vertical
03:12 < mouses> :)
03:13 < irwiss> i use tmux almost exclusively for terminal - ssh either attaches or makes a new tmux session and i never have to think about being lazy as i'm always lazy :)
03:13 < mouses> irwiss: nice :)
03:13 < mouses> irwiss: it's what I love about GNU/Linux = so many different ways to crack the same egg
03:13 < Kharma> IT's the whole, for example, "C-r + t" (totally not a command) that maybe I'm doing wrong.
03:13 < ayecee> some of them involve picking pieces of egg out of your teeth
03:14 < ayecee> shell*
03:14 < mouses> ayecee: or the egg literally exploding in your face :)
03:14 < ayecee> missed opportunity
03:14 < mouses> ayecee: well played :)
03:14 < irwiss> Kharma: give tmux a try, also rebinding your escape key to something more convenient helps with comfort :p
03:14 < mouses> tmux is super useful
03:15 < irwiss> i mean, not the actual escape key, but the key you use to send commands to screen/tmux
03:15 < ch01by> lol
03:17 < Kharma> and then so, I would do C-r simultaneously, and then the next key in the sequence on it's own, is that how that goes? I thought I was trying that too though. I'm a linux nub still guys but I generally understand things once it's explained to me in stupid terms lol
03:18 < djvb> Just started using tmux myself and love it
03:18 < Kharma> And I don't use Vi or Emacs.. :/
03:19 < djvb> irwiss: how do you get sshd to go directly to tmux session?
03:20 < revel> `ssh -t host tmux a`
03:21 < djvb> revel: thanks... guess I should rtfm. :)
03:22 < mawk> why -t ?
03:22 < revel> Since otherwise it won't allocate a virtual terminal or summin.
03:23 < mawk> why not ? it does it by default if you're in a tty no ?
03:23 < revel> Can't do anything interactive without passing -t.
03:23 < revel> Well, try and see. Doesn't work for me, at least.
03:24 < revel> "open terminal failed: not a terminal"
03:24 < irwiss> djvb:  i use `tmux -u attach ||  tmux -u new -s default` so it attaches or create a session automatically
03:24 < mawk> ah, yeah ok it doesn't do it if you specify a command indeed
03:24 < notmike> Yeah duh
03:25 < revel> Only if it's an interactive command. Unless it's sh designed to read from stdin or something.
03:25 < revel> Basically, if it's not a simple `cat` or something, -t
03:25 < djvb> irwiss: ah, nice -- even better
03:27 < revel> I just have "new-session" in my tmux.conf and always pass "attach" :D
03:28 < revel> So it'll make a new session if none exists and attaches the old one if there's none. Weird, hacky solution though.
03:30 < dfcnvt> Greeting, This early morning, I manages to put into experiment.  By loading as many google-chrome tabs and windows as possible, to gain more load to the performance.  And it caused all to freezed up - I was not able to switch to TTY1-6 (F1 to F6).   I've put down a note of time and date. I had it rebooted and was able to operate the system as normal.  I took a look into both kern.log and syslog files.  I
03:30 < dfcnvt> excerpted the timestamp that caused a freeze. And found it has something to do with "nouveau".
03:30 < dfcnvt> Please take a look here:  https://pastebin.com/raw/zXs0zDvL
03:31 < djvb> this is sweet. Can't believe how long I've been using terminals and just now finding out about tmux.
03:31 < p0a> dfcnvt: do you know what nouveau is?
03:31 < p0a> dfcnvt: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/
03:31 < dfcnvt> I believe it's nvidia
03:32 < dfcnvt> I see there's a channel for it - I'll take advantage of joining there.
03:36 < jim> djvb, here's more tmux stuff: https://tmuxcheatsheet.com/ (config https://github.com/tony/tmux-config/blob/master/.tmux.conf)
03:39 < irwiss> revel: doesn't sound like a hack, i'll check it out thanks
03:40 < revel> Well, the standard procedure for "attach a session, or, if none exists, start one" probably shouldn't be to stick the command to start a session in a config file...
03:41 < irwiss> well... i suspect it's one of the most common use cases if not the most common
03:42 < jrgilman> Any recommendations for a new mouse? My dell mouse is finally starting to crap out.
03:48 < djvb> jim: thanks! Now that I'm looking, it looks like there are dozens of cheat sheets out there
03:49 < jim> yeah, for all kinds of different things
03:49 < djph> jrgilman: i've always liked logitech
03:50 < djvb> I second that. I've never had issues with Logitech mice.
03:50 < jim> I got a couple of logitech's cheapie trackballs... they've lasted a good 10 years
03:50 < grillin> hello. question: what would be the best way to clone a remote linux machine from windows (linux subsystem) to some place on the local windows machine?
03:50 < jim> hi
03:52 < jim> so that it boots from windows?
03:52 < xamithan> WSL doesn't just put things in one directory right?  That sounds like a chore
03:52 < grillin> i assume i could use something like dd, right?
03:52 < grillin> i basically need to archive a remote machine
03:53 < jim> well dd makes an image, which you may or may not need to do
03:53 < grillin> why wouldn't i want an image?
03:54 < jrgilman> jim: yeah I like this mouse too but after about 8+ years now the right click button is giving out
03:54 < jim> grillin, well imaging loses you some flexibility
03:54 < jrgilman> maybe I'll go in and replace the microswitch
03:55 < grillin> jim, what kind of flexibility?
03:55 < jim> jrgilman, sec
03:55 < Psi-Jack> grillin: From what I know about WSL, That's.... Not going to do you very much. WSL is not Linux.
03:56 < jim> the flexibility that lets you copy it to various different situations, and getting the boot to work... do you happen to use uefi booting?
03:56 < grillin> creating an image with dd would allow me to deploy said image to a real linux environment, right?
03:56 < djph> maybe
03:56 < Psi-Jack> grillin: What exactly are you really trying to do?
03:56 < jim> yeah, that's true
03:56 < grillin> Psi-Jack, i need to back up this machine
03:57 < xamithan> Wait,  you can DD a windows WSL and put it into real linux?
03:57 < Psi-Jack> Windows has backup software.
03:57 < grillin> i need to make a copy and store it away
03:57 < Psi-Jack> Check with ##windows for further details.
03:57 < grillin> nope
03:57 < jim> backing up, its probably better to copy fiile-by-file
03:58 < grillin> i need to archive a remote linux host (preferrably from my local windows environment). i would prefer that the remote host were archived in such a manner that would allow it to be bootable, be it on WSL or elsewhere
03:58 < hatp> /
03:58 < jim> how does the remote boot?
03:58 < epicmetal> Is there a actual good looking GTK theme? I've tried Adwaita, Adapta, Arc, Materia and Numix already.
03:59 < epicmetal> GTK and GNOME shell theme
03:59 < Psi-Jack> epicmetal: All those are "good looking"
03:59 < hatp> If you don't like any of those, then no. Did you try Adwaita Dark?
03:59 < rascul> epicmetal that seems quite subjective
03:59 < grillin> jim, not sure. is there a straighforward way for me to find that out if i am on the host in question via ssh
03:59 < epicmetal> rascul: true
04:00 < epicmetal> But maybe somebody knows of a theme they personally think looks more pro than those...
04:00 < Psi-Jack> All those look pretty dern good..
04:00 < grillin> i know that this is probably a fairly complicated problem
04:00 < Psi-Jack> Some even professionally made.
04:00 < epicmetal> Adwaita is the best of them IMHO
04:00 < epicmetal> Even though it gets old
04:00 < jim> just a sec
04:00 < Psi-Jack> grillin: It's more complicated because you're providing very insufficient information.
04:00 < Psi-Jack> The WSL part, too, don't count on help for that, because that's unlikely.
04:01 < grillin> Psi-Jack, what kind of information would you like? you name it, i'll dig it up
04:01 < Psi-Jack> Details on this "remote host", should it actually be genuinely linux.
04:02 < Psi-Jack> What is it? What distro? Physical hardware or virtual machine, etc?
04:02 < grillin> it's a debian dedicated server
04:02 < Psi-Jack> Bare metal? Virtual?
04:02 < aBound> Linux master.
04:03 < grillin> Psi-Jack,  sec. let me find out
04:03 < Psi-Jack> You... Don't know?
04:03 < grillin> if i did, i would have told you already :)
04:03  * Psi-Jack sighs.
04:04 < grillin> it's bare mettal
04:05 < Psi-Jack> DRAC/iDRAC? iLO? IPMIv2?
04:06 < xamithan> Might be easier to just say who the hoster is
04:06 < grillin> probably ipmi
04:06 < Psi-Jack> No probably. Know.
04:06 < grillin> INAP
04:07 < xamithan> Doesn't look like INAP does dedicated,  just colo and cloud
04:08 < Psi-Jack> What I'm getting at is, the way to back that up in the exact manner you're suggesting, the most ideal way to do so without data corruption/loss, is to do so at the bare metal level. Example, using iDRAC, mounting an ISO rescue disk and booting that, doing a dd image transferring that.
04:08 < grillin> it's form a former employee rack. just a 1 u server
04:08 < xamithan> Oh ok so colo dedicated
04:08 < grillin> yes, from a very previous life
04:09 < Psi-Jack> Unless of course you have physical access to it. :)
04:09 < jml2> grillin, previous or precious?
04:09 < Psi-Jack> Alternatively you could use alternative backup methods that require a more manual restore method, thus will not itself be bootable.
04:09 < jml2> lol
04:10 < grillin> yeah, it's IPMI
04:11 < Psi-Jack> Heh, bring on the pain. :)
04:11 < xamithan> How would you transfer the dd image through ipmi
04:12 < xamithan> Unless you had a separate disk mounted on it
04:12 < Psi-Jack> Via network.
04:12 < xamithan> Oh,  right.  you could nfs|samba mount through a rescue iso,  duh
04:13 < grillin> probably not an option in this case
04:13 < Psi-Jack> Not going to be a fun nor easy task, and the system will need to be shut down (controlled through IPMI)
04:13 < Psi-Jack> Well, then you have no viable options for exactly what you asked for,
04:13 < Psi-Jack> No likely options anyway. :)
04:13 < jml2> one can rescue boot via netboot/pxe :p
04:14 < xamithan> See if ansible can make a playbook to restore it exactly then just transfer the data over
04:14 < grillin> that'd be nice, but i don't have that sort of access to this machine
04:14 < Psi-Jack> borgbackup, copy the borg archive, install new system somewhere, restore borg backup.
04:15 < djph> rsync to a remote host?
04:15 < xamithan> Could always ask the center if they can clone the disk and ship it out to ya.  Might cost ya a few hundred
04:16 < Psi-Jack> If it's got hardware RAID, that wouldn't be ideal.
04:16 < grillin> that actually wouldn't be bad
04:16 < xamithan> If he has the same raid card at his location it should still work
04:16 < xamithan> or her location
04:17 < grillin> ah, they can't do physical migrations or clones
04:17 < Psi-Jack> Welp.. Down to file-by-file copying then.
04:18 < jml2> some raid things do simple sector-sector copy no special metadata
04:18 < xamithan> Is it using LVM?  Might be able to just make a snapshot
04:18 < grillin> ok, let's try something else. a lot of the software on this particular machine is Very Old (debian 6). is there a reasonable way for me to preserve the binaries in such a way that i'd be able to move them to another (new) debian 6 host and use them?
04:18 < xamithan> debian 6,  ok probably no LVM then
04:18 < Psi-Jack> xamithan: IF, keyword IF there's unused available space to fit.
04:18 < Psi-Jack> Debian 6? Holy moly.
04:18 < revel> Which codename was that one?
04:19 < jml2> etch i think
04:19 < grillin> yes, Very Old
04:19 < Psi-Jack> Do a file-by-file copy, abandon it. It's already beyond EOL.
04:20 < jml2> EOL meaning you must be re-incarnated at some later point in time
04:20 < jml2> with a new toy
04:20 < jml2> :P
04:20 < xamithan> Surprised dirtycow hasn't hit it yet
04:20 < djph> or any of the other dozen bad things
04:22 < grillin> i am also surprised
04:22 < jim> jml2, I think we need to talk... not right now though,I'm falling asleep in my chair... but sometime
04:23  * jml2 tells jim "debian" names its distros after "toy story characters"
04:24 < jml2> jim, you need help, shoot
04:24 < grillin> so, it should be theoretically possible to grab all binaries from a linux host and install them on an equivalent one, yes?
04:24 < jml2> just got my wordpress fixed today to support "svg"
04:24 < jim> I think I'm aware of that :)
04:25 < jml2> and "svgz" as well...
04:25 < jml2> now my logos show properly on any display
04:25 < jim> yeah, I wrote a web app that uses sfg
04:25 < jim> svg
04:27 < graff> http://147.75.58.157/graff/hlibc/-/jobs/39
04:27 < graff> it seems like I am part way to getting these runners set up
04:27 < revel> grillin: I'd maybe make a backup just in case and then do a clean install of a newer Debian. Why preserve the binaries though? Do you just want the same packages or do you specifically need those versions and all of those exact packages?
04:27 < graff> but ssh authentication is not working
04:27 < graff> i think I am a bit confused at this point ... been 16 hours
04:27 < grillin> revel yes, i need the same versions and packages
04:27 < graff> anyway do i need private keys on the runner box?
04:28 < revel> Are you completely sure? Why won't newer versions of those packages work?
04:28 < Psi-Jack> Debian 6 is long since EOL.
04:28 < revel> I don't think you can go to a newer Debian if you need those triple-ancient packages.
04:29 < grillin> yeah. i basically need to preserve a legacy environment just in case
04:29 < revel> If you just want the same packages, then you can get a list of installed packages easily.
04:29 < grillin> not optimal, but such is life
04:29 < xamithan> Couldn't you just P2V it with one of those tools like vmware ?
04:29 < xamithan> Thats what my company does with legacy boxes
04:30 < revel> Make a backup somewhere? Could even just chroot in there if there's not too much stuff relying on deprecated kernel stuff, maybe.
04:30 < revel> Well, that's what I think, anyway.
04:36 < maverick313> Gents, I would like to send new entries in /var/log/messages to an email address. Whats's the easist way to do this if sendmail already setup.
04:36 < Psi-Jack> maverick313: Why email?
04:36 < Psi-Jack> It's not the 90's anymore. There's better ways, depending on what you really want. ;)
04:36 < maverick313> so i have openvpn running on centos 7. I just want to know who and when someone connected
04:37 < Kharma> excuse my newbness.. but I'm trying to install/create a virtual environment with python.  Apparently pip3 installs packages outside of my current path, because when I try to run "virtualenv venv" to create my environemnt, I get command not found, but I installed virtualenv with pip3..
04:37 < maverick313> may be setup cront to set an alert? not sure. new to bash scripting and linux. Sorry
04:37 < Kharma> what command can I use to find where virtualenv installed to?
04:38 < topicali> some config files in /etc/ got butchered (by me)...using yum, how do i do a complete clean reinstall, removing all modified config files in /etc ?
04:38 < Psi-Jack> maverick313: Well, a simple way wouldbe logwatch. A more useful way would be something like greylog.
04:38 < topicali> (in this case, openldap is the package)
04:38 < Speed2u> playing around with znc, dont know if im jsut stupid but it doesn't seem that i'm still connected to the servers after closing my irc-client? (but ofc let the server still run), when i start my client again i dont see the last lines from an on going chat, and can "jump right in"
04:38 < maverick313> Sounds good Psi-Jack! I'll check the out. Thanks
04:38 < Speed2u> sorry if im just stupid :P only used other ppls servers before
04:39 < Kharma> Speed2u make sure you have logging set up on your ZNC
04:39 < Kharma> use your webview admin thing
04:40 < Kharma> logging for the network and channel you want to log, obvs
04:40 < Speed2u> yeah i believe i saw something about logging to file that was already checked, will check again :) thx
04:41 < graff> anyne know how to setup these gitlab runner things?
04:41 < graff> it's saying ssh key not found
04:41 < Kharma> speed2u also check scrollbuffer settings.. .there are different logging options, one for just logging in a file and one to show you unread messages in your buffer when you reconnect
04:41 < Psi-Jack> graff: Still on gitlab?
04:42 < Psi-Jack> graff: You know what a ssh key is, don't you?
04:42 < Speed2u> khalella: found one that was just named "log" in the webgui, tried to tick that but i dunno know if its enough to just do it for the main settings or if i have to check that for every network? a little confused by the webthing, if its possible to do in terminal i prefer that
04:43 < Speed2u> wrong tabbing sorry, Kharma ^
04:45 < Kharma> It's been awhile for me but oddly enough, I was about to mess around and turn on my ZNC again.. if you stick around and don't figure it out before me, I'll help you out with your ZNC stuff..
04:46 < Speed2u> Kharma: ok thx a lot :) its 4:45 AM here so i should probably sleep but this is more fun :D
04:46 < Kharma> My suggestion and even ZNC's suggestion is to set up your network and channel settings with the WebGUI the first time at least.. but of course, whatever makes you more comfortable.. let me find a good reference for you, I believe I bookmarked one
04:48 < Speed2u> i have set up everything so far in webgui but some things i dont really understand, like "default modes", have tried to set like +R on some server but that doesnt seem to be the correct way to use it. have been out of this for too long, just runned a mirc-client on a windows server the last years but i want to be able to connect from my linuxmachines and phone without the need of rdp just to
04:48 < Speed2u> be able to chat
04:52 < grillin> any reason why i shouldn't just TAR the entire system then rsync it over?
04:52 < Speed2u> hope it's ok to connect 2 users with same IP just for a short period, will see if i get disconnected when closing my client
04:55 < Kharma> speed2u http://ericholscher.com/blog/2010/nov/5/using-znc-irc-bouncer/ what I used when starting
04:55 < dannylee> hi
04:55 < Kharma> Oh, sleep if you want, I'll be around.. I never sleep usually ;)  Speed2u
04:55 < oerheks> grillin,  rsync -z could compress data during the transfer
04:56 < cmj> has anyone tried kdeconnect?
04:56 < cmj> i just got the applet going today, pretty nice
04:57 < Kharma> Speed2u did you run ZNC --makeconf ? Well, anyways.. that link I linked to will help you figure out most basics, including that.
04:57 < cmj> input device for mouse/keyboard, cross platform for notify's
04:57 < Speed2u> Just tried to reconnect my client, and now it seems like the last lines are provided to me as i want :) even checked a webclient to make sure i wasn't disconnected. The only thing to wish now is to maybe get highlighting to work even from the log's but that's maybe not a ZNC issue more like a client issue i guess
04:58 < Kharma> Speed2u there is a module for that I believe
04:58 < Kharma> for the serverside
05:00 < Speed2u> Kharma: yeah i took a look at the url you posted :) and i pretty much did the exact way, i created a new user and did the --makeconf and followed the small steps like port setup etc before i did the rest of the configs in webinterface
05:00 < kartikay> Hi! I am having a very strange problem
05:00 < kartikay> I have a file, called squeak, which is an executable file
05:01 < kartikay> It shows up in ls, and I can check it using `file squeak`, but when I try to run it using `./squeak`, zsh gives me an error
05:01 < kartikay> `zsh: no such file or directory: ./squeak`
05:01 < Kharma> Speed2u one thing I did first off was increase the size of my scroll buffer, lines in IRC go really fast sometimes. Of course this can be set per channel, slower channels won't need a large buffer
05:02 < kartikay> `file squeak` gives me the output "squeak: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.24, BuildID[sha1]=32cf2d296d896e701008c76e82de8e8e8cb9fb15, with debug_info, not stripped"
05:02 < jml2> maverick313, the king of log watch monitoring is logstash!!!
05:02 < kartikay> Why is this happening? why isn't zsh able to find the file?
05:03 < Speed2u> Kharma: yeah i believe i will increase it some. the only problem is that i run everything off of a raspberry pi for now so i only have 16GB to play with :P
05:03 < Bashing-om> kartikay: presnt working directoy ? as the "./" says this directory right here .
05:03 < kartikay> Bashing-om: I didn't understand what you are trying to say
05:04 < jml2> kartikay, could be that your in a directory subpath under a mountpoint that no longer exists
05:04 < Bashing-om> kartikay: where are you attempting to exexute ./squeak ?
05:04 < kartikay> Bashing-om: in the same directory where it is present
05:05 < Kharma> Speed2u I am not familier at all with the pi's.. I always hear about them though being used as good servers.. Are you able to mount on a Pi using FUSE? Google-Drive-ocamlfuse allows you to mount your Google Drive and use it as if it were local...
05:05 < kartikay> jml2: no it's just under my Desktop
05:05 < kartikay> no mountpoints are involved
05:05 < kartikay> I just deleted the directory and downloaded the file again ... the problem went away
05:06 < kartikay> lol
05:06 < jml2> the phantom path sometimes is left behind in other places
05:06 < jml2> tehehe
05:07 < Speed2u> Kharma: not really sure about that to be honest :) never used my pi
05:07 < Speed2u> never used my pis for anything with need of much diskspace before*'
05:08 < Kharma> Also GCfuse allows mounting Google Cloud Bucker ts much the same way.. and Google has the always free tier plus 300 dollars credit.. so, there is another option.. also a good option for free VM's FYI
05:08 < Kharma> Buckets*
05:08 < Kharma> Speed2u ^
05:08 < rcf> Kharma: the only thing they can't do is run x86 binaries.
05:09 < Speed2u> i will have a look at that, thx
05:09 < topicali> i installed (via yum) openldap earlier today...when i try to uninstall it, it tries to uninstall all sorts of dependencies http://pastebin.centos.org/768551/
05:09 < Kharma> Speed2u  I actually run my ZNC on a free Google Cloud Compute Instance :D
05:10 < revel> Kharma: But you're not connecting via znc?
05:10 < Kharma> rcf That's amazing!  I would love to get my hands on one then
05:10 < revel> Where'd you get a free one?
05:11 < topicali> virtually lists every package installed on my system; none of which should be dependent on openldap
05:11 < jml2> topicali, you probably installed ldaputils
05:11 < Speed2u> Kharma: ok :). it seems however to work almost as intended for now. only have problems with connecting to one of the servers for some reason, getting timeout
05:11 < topicali> jml2: ah
05:11 < jml2> topicali, if you're getting that much removal of things, ldap must be a dependency needed for many things
05:12 < jml2> topicali, if you dont use ldap things but is required as an installed package, you can disable its startup service
05:12 < Kharma> Speed2u not at the moment, when I installed my SSL certs it screwed something up so hence why I mentioned that I was about to try fixing my ZNC connection today lol. Also I installed some other things on the server that I think interfered with ZNC :(
05:12 < Kharma> That or it's off lol About to login and check
05:13 < topicali> jml2: wasn't using it for anything, but was testing openldap as a solution today
05:13 < Kharma> Can't remember if I enabled it to boot after reboot.. probs not
05:20 < Speed2u> hmm weird. the server i had some issues with was just refusing when connected to the server on one of the other ports i set up, the same as the server uses. but when i tried to connect to the normal +6697 port, it connects right away
05:23 < grillin> question: is there a quick-ish way to zip an entire filesystem (~100gb)
05:23 < ayecee> same as zipping a directory
05:23 < ayecee> except the directory is /
05:24 < revel> grillin: Where do you want to put the archive?
05:25 < grillin> i'm going to rsync it to a different host
05:25 < grillin> at least i'll have the files if i ever end up needing them again
05:25 < revel> Since tar can write its output to stdin, making it possible to streamline the process.
05:26 < revel> Or, uhh, could just rsync everything, maybe.
05:27 < ayecee> grillin: be sure to use rsync's -x option to do one filesystem, so you don't try to copy /proc and /sys
05:27 < Kharma> Speed2u which IRC client do you use?
05:27 < grillin> i'm going to use something like this `sudo tar czf /backup.tar.gz --exclude=/backup.tar.gz --exclude=/home --exclude=/media --exclude=/dev --exclude=/mnt --exclude=/proc --exclude=/sys --exclude=/tmp /`
05:28 < ayecee> grillin: instead of the complicated excludes, use --one-file-system
05:28 < Speed2u> Kharma: currently mirc since i'm on windows, but i use xchat a lot too when on my linux laptop or andchat on phone
05:28 < Kharma> remember that in your client, you only connect to one server, your ZNC server.. and from ZNC you connect to other IRC networks/servers etc.. they must be set up in your ZNC prior to conneting in the client
05:29 < Speed2u> Kharma: yeah that far i understood :) i have nothing else than bnc-adress set up on clients
05:30 < Speed2u> dont find the "scrolling buffer" in webui u where talking about
05:30 < Speed2u> only seem to be able to set query buffers
05:31 < Speed2u> there is a global max buffer size too that i dunno what is.. is it maybe lines?
05:32 < grillin> is there a way to get a list of package versions via dpkg so i could (hypothetically) reinstall to a different machine?
05:33 < topicali> jml2: trying to figure out how so many previously installed packages became dependent on a package i just installed today?
05:33 < Kharma> Speed2u http://wiki.znc.in/Configuration maxbuffersize and *chanbuffer settings is what you want
05:35 < Kharma> Speed2u http://i.imgur.com/KDxWlE1.png
05:35 < ayecee> grillin: dpkg -l perhaps
05:35 < irwiss> Speed2u: if you don't do any hardcore irc'ing (scripting and such on your client) i can suggest thelounge as a much easier to set up alternative to znc
05:36 < Kharma> irwiss it's a great learning experiance tho, and once its set, its pretty much set and forget
05:36 < Speed2u> Kharma: found it after a while, thx :) putted it at 100 lines for now, lets see how well the pi handle that lol.  irwiss ok maybe will look into that alternative too
05:37 < ayecee> before today i had not heard of lounge, and today i've heard about it twice.
05:37 < Bashing-om> grillin: debian ? see: apt show debfoster .
05:38 < Speed2u> now the only thing left to do before sleep is figuring out how to make znc start automatically without needing cronjobs
05:38 < ayecee> the @reboot cronjob should work
05:40 < jml2> Speed2u, make a systemd service file for it
05:42 < jml2> Speed2u, there's probably something of an example in your extract -- use find magic for an sys-v or systemd file ...
05:42 < jml2> Speed2u, sometimes an example is in the upstream
05:43 < Speed2u> jml2: yeah that seems to be the best solution. thx for input :) guess that will be tomorrows headacke, now i need to get some hours sleep :D
05:47 < jml2> grillin, dpkg --get-selections > myselections.txt     ; cat myselections.txt | dpkg --set-selections     ; and  then apt-get dselect-upgrade
05:47 < jml2> grillin, it would be a good idea to use an apt-proxy so to save internet metering
05:48 < jml2> Speed2u, there's ideas online with full of them
05:48 < jml2> Speed2u, im quite sure you should be able to find examples on the developer's download site
05:50 < jml2> Speed2u, "Systemd scripts are already distributed in the package."
05:50 < jml2> Speed2u, https://wiki.znc.in/Installation
05:50 < jml2> lol
05:50 < jml2> just my guess
05:50 < jml2> use find .|grep service$ :P
05:51 < jml2> Speed2u, interesting znc is alredy in .deb packaging... wonderin why you went the tarball way
05:52 < jml2> nm
05:58 < justsomeguy> Before I start doing research, is it possible for me to become good at troubleshooting X.org without losing my sanity in the process, or should I just give up?
05:58 < Sveta> yes, it is
05:58 < justsomeguy> Oh thank god. I'm pretty apprehensive about it, as you can tell.
05:58 < Sveta> especially if you ask #x.org
05:58 < Sveta> sorry, #xorg
06:00 < justsomeguy> I'll check there once I have studied some, and have a real problem to troubleshoot. Thanks for the encouragement.
06:00 < Sveta> no worries :)
06:01 < jml2> justsomeguy, especially now... it's a lot more complicating because there's hybrid and migration going on towards wayland
06:01 < Kharma> when trying to start my ZNC service (it uses a non-local user, well, a user made only for itself, not sure if non-local is correct wording) I get this error "Failed at step USER spawning /usr/bin/znc: No such process" .. any ideas? this is my systemd file https://thepasteb.in/p/76hxcNK4ZEYoVuj
06:02 < Sveta> Kharma: does /usr/bin/znc file exist?
06:02 < Kharma> yes, and even after running it specifically.. same thing
06:02 < justsomeguy> Yeah. I just need to know enough to fix a broken graphical environment for the Linux+/LPIC-1 exam. My past experiences setting up a DM/WM/DE under gentoo was not fun, though, so I haven't been looking forward to it.
06:02 < Triffid_Hunter> Kharma: strace time
06:03 < Triffid_Hunter> justsomeguy: emerge kde-meta didn't work for you?
06:03 < justsomeguy> This was years ago. I was living the meme, setting up sddm and i3.
06:04 < Triffid_Hunter> justsomeguy: I've been on gentoo for years, it's the only one I've tried that doesn't fight me when I tell it what I want
06:04 < dannylee> ok man i  just installed opensuse..and how do i loginto root..sorry its been years since i use op-enSuse
06:05 < Kharma> I've never used strace before.. any specific args that would be helful?
06:05 < justsomeguy> Triffid_Hunter: Gentoo is great, actually. I just didn't know what I was doing and caused myself a lot of grief.
06:05 < Triffid_Hunter> justsomeguy: ah yeah, gentoo kinda sucks if you're not sure exactly what you want
06:05 < dannylee> in the terminal
06:06 < dannylee> is it su -
06:06 < Triffid_Hunter> dannylee: sudo -i is possibly more common these days
06:07 < dannylee> ok man i just got its down
06:07 < dannylee> it the same as fedora
06:07 < dannylee> c00000l
06:08 < dannylee> my g0d gnome looks differant
06:08 < justsomeguy> You may want to configure the root account to have a different password than yours, and set up sudo to ask for your password rather than roots.
06:09 < Triffid_Hunter> justsomeguy: sudo always asks for user password, no?
06:09 < dannylee> ok
06:09 < justsomeguy> Triffid_Hunter: Not with the default configuration of openSUSE. If you mark your user as 'Make Administrator' in the installer, it sets the root password to match the user password.
06:10 < dannylee> openSuse might really be G0D
06:10 < Triffid_Hunter> justsomeguy: lolwut
06:10 < justsomeguy> (Unless you specify otherwise in the installer, which isn't hard to do, but you need to know where to look.)
06:11 < justsomeguy> Yeah, it's a weird default. I can't say I agree with some of openSUSE's default security configurations.
06:12 < justsomeguy> Like PolKit on Gnome3. It asks for your root password to connect to new Wi-Fi networks, unless you make a new .rule file.
06:12 < justsomeguy> ...because, by default, NetworkManager stores the new Wi-Fi networks somewhere in /etc.
06:13 < justsomeguy> On the other hand, snapper is incredibly useful.
06:15 < justsomeguy> In case someone runs into the Wi-Fi thing. https://www.reddit.com/r/openSUSE/comments/6yfce9/gnome_prompts_for_my_root_password_when_adding/
06:16 < Sveta> justsomeguy: sounds like a nasty solution; is there a corresponding bug report to gnome or a distribution?
06:16 < justsomeguy> Linus Torvalds filed one. It's marked as fixed, but I still have the bug. I just gave up.
06:17 < Triffid_Hunter> justsomeguy: very weird, I use wpa_supplicant for my wifi, it has a client/daemon setup that precludes the whole needing root issue. Why is it that every time I encounter NetworkManager it seems to be a crippled step backwards from all the standard tools that precede it?
06:18 < rascul> because of weird configurations?
06:19 < jml2> justsomeguy, there should already be ones you can override
06:19 < rascul> i can use networkmanager just fine as a user on opensuse
06:19 < justsomeguy> jml2: Oh, I've already fixed the problem by creating a polkit rule.
06:19 < rascul> i don't let gnome use me though, so i don't run into gnome issues
06:20 < justsomeguy> rascul: Are you using Gnome or KDE? I found that it works perfectly out of the box on KDE Plasma, but required this workaround on Gnome3.
06:20 < rascul> kde and xfce it works fine
06:20  * justsomeguy shrugs. He just wanted to warn dannylee in case he encountered the same problem.
06:20 < penguinman> SystemD and Gnome are working from different ends of the spectrum to cry and create RedHatOS. I'll pass, thanks.
06:21 < penguinman> *try
06:21 < jml2> justsomeguy, that looks too complex imho -- there should be polkit rule that you should be able to copy into /etc/  (from somewhere /lib or /usr/lib)
06:21 < jml2> justsomeguy, like a "unix-group"  -- instead of needing to define a new group
06:22 < justsomeguy> Yeah, well if you add your user to the "network" group it's supposed to fix the issue, but it doesn't on my machine.
06:23 < jml2> justsomeguy, its there in /var/lib
06:23 < justsomeguy> As far as I remember, anyways. I really should write up a detailed bug report when I have time this weekend, since this issue effects a lot of people (try searching "root wifi" on that subreddit), but is hard to reproduce.
06:24 < jml2> justsomeguy,  find /var/lib/polkit* |grep -i networkmanager
06:24 < justsomeguy> jml2: Oh, really? Let me check.
06:24 < jml2> then you copy that to somewhere /etc/<pokit.d> things
06:24 < jml2> and edit it..
06:25 < justsomeguy> Oh... that would have been way easier.
06:25 < jml2> here in a xubuntu setup, the default group is "netdev"
06:25 < jml2> so if i want to make sure my gui user has control over the nm applet, i add him to netdev
06:25 < rascul> i dunno much about polkit rules, but looking in /etc/polkit-1/rules.d/90-default-privs.rules it looks like there's a bunch of networkmanager stuff you need to be an admin, which might mean you need to be in the wheel group
06:26 < jml2> justsomeguy, as far as i can see i dont even need to make a copy
06:26 < jml2> justsomeguy, the rule looks sane enough here..
06:26 < graff> is it possible to run gitlab and host a simple web server on the same box?
06:26 < graff> i mean... easily
06:26 < graff> no wuju
06:26 < rascul> graff sure, if it's easy to setup gitlab and also easy to setup a web server
06:27 < graff> rascul: don't they use the same domain name though
06:27 < rascul> they can
06:27 < jml2> justsomeguy,  I notice here in this xubuntu setup, that it also accepts group "sudo"  ...
06:27 < rascul> you can run gitlab on some other port and use the web server to proxy requests to it
06:27 < graff> oh jesus
06:27 < jml2> justsomeguy, whatever you're using, you probably have some group defined in there
06:27 < rascul> it's usually pretty easy unless you need to do some weird rewrites
06:28 < justsomeguy> Wow, well, maybe my installation is just really misconfigured or something, but I don't
06:28 < rascul> it's probably not the best idea though to run anything else on the same box as gitlab
06:28 < rascul> also you might look into gitea, it's easier/lighter
06:28 < jml2> justsomeguy, unix-group:<group>   --- does it say "Identity" in your polkit rule?
06:29 < graff> i only have two computers through this company, and I need one for the gitlab runners ...
06:30 < graff> maybe i will just host the web server on the one with the gitlab runners
06:31 < justsomeguy> jml2: I'm not sure what you're asking, but I do have NetworkManager working properly at the moment.
06:31 < justsomeguy> I don't see the string "Identity" anywhere in the rule file I created, if that's what you're asking.
06:32 < jml2> justsomeguy, the polkit rule file -> /var/lib/polkit-1/*   if you used find, it'll likely have something there
06:32 < Smeef> How can I pipe uptime into a DD:HH:MM:SS format?
06:32 < jml2> justsomeguy, at the header would be Identy=unix-group:<>
06:32 < jml2> justsomeguy, that's something else more elaborate that you did...
06:33 < jml2> justsomeguy, my belief is you should of edited a polkit rule..
06:34 < jml2> justsomeguy,  i mean a "different" formula rule...
06:34 < jml2> justsomeguy,  where you shouldn't have to create a new group, etc..
06:35 < graff> procps uptime does -s for yyyy-mm-dd HH:MM:SS
06:35 < graff> not really what you are wanting though
06:35 < jml2> justsomeguy, it's a .pkla file rather than a .rules file
06:52 < justsomeguy> Ah, the reason I didn't edit the policy or action file (.plka) is because it is overwritten whenever polkit is updated.
06:57 < jml2> justsomeguy, you then didnt' apply it at the right location then
06:57 < jml2> justsomeguy, (or didnt name it properly
06:57 < justsomeguy> Ah, that must have been it.
06:58 < jml2> (man pklocalauthority)
06:58 < jml2> "50-local.d            Intended for local usage."
06:59  * justsomeguy can tell he is sleep deprived because he's been starting all his sentences with exclamatory words and a comma.
06:59 < jml2> ok
06:59  * jml2 has to do a reboot
07:00 < justsomeguy> Thanks for the help, jml2 !
07:08 < quint> How can I print ONLY extended ascii characters using tr?
07:10 < quint> I tried using tr -cd '\200-\376' < /dev/urandom but it seems the wrong characters are coming through
07:11 < quint> Do I have those numbers correct for extended ascii as outlined here? http://www.theasciicode.com.ar/
07:12 < quint> As I understand it, tr accepts octal representations for ranges of characters
07:12 < hexnewbie> Maybe tr uses your locale properly, taking into account that extended ASCII is a misnomer for thing that shouldn't really exist in 2018?
07:12 < hexnewbie> or maybe tr doesn't
07:12 < hexnewbie> What do you really need?
07:12 < pressure679> Is there a tool to throttle disk drive speed to prevent overheating?
07:12 < hexnewbie> pressure679: CFQ bandwidth, probably
07:13 < quint> hexnewbie: just need to print random extended ascii chars
07:13 < quint> well, more like want to
07:13 < hexnewbie> quint: What's an extended ASCII character for you?
07:14 < hexnewbie> It's not like it's a well-defined term
07:14 < quint> I may even have it wrong
07:15 < hexnewbie> ‘Extended ASCII’ refers to one of many (different one depending on system) possible sets of 128 characters (or more), and to god knows what on an UTF-8 system. So you'd have to be specific.
07:15 < pressure679> hexnewbie: Can I use it? I have a program which is running as of now, I have ~2 hours I guess before it overheats.
07:15 < quint> Ah. Understood.
07:17 < hexnewbie> pressure679: Or use /sys/fs/cgroup/blkio/blkio.throttle.write_bps_device (or read_bps, or read_iops, or write_ips). Unfortunately, I lost my bash script that had the syntax for those files. Give me a sec
07:18 < pressure679> Well, actually, do not bother, it is not in a separate "room" like the old drive, e.g it gets cooled with the fan together with the CPU.
07:18 < pressure679> hexnewbie: It would be neat though as I may face this problem in the future again.
07:18 < epicmetal> someone with mad gnome/css skills should do an adwaita shell/gtk theme with zero rounded corners
07:18 < epicmetal> that would look sweet
07:18 < epicmetal> and thinner title bars
07:20 < Sveta> epicmetal: for gnome 3?
07:20 < Prof_Birch> So, it's good to learn how to compile my own kernel right?
07:20 < hexnewbie> pressure679: I believe (but I may be wrong) that you just write the "$maj:$min $bytes" (like ‘echo "$maj:$min $bytes" >/sys/fs/cgroup/blkio/blkio.throttle.write_bps_device), and that will limit the write bandwidth of device with major number $maj and minor number $min to $bytes bytes.
07:21 < hexnewbie> pressure679: To get major:minor, stat --format=%t:%T /dev/sda
07:21 < pressure679> hexnewbie: Thanks, I will Google it just to be sure, also, I am not actually sure how many bits per second this drive can do (will have to google that too).
07:21 < [R]> is there any dhcp client that has a static address fallback?
07:22 < pressure679> hexnewbie: Huh, you are appreciated.
07:27 < texasmynsted> what is the best way to remove control characters.  I tried sed 's/^\^\[\[2K//' but that does not appear to remove ^[[2K control characters
07:28 < texasmynsted> if I knew what ^[[2K was I could use tr
07:29 < quint> [R]: It appears that isc-dhclient has an option specifically for static fallback
07:29 < [R]> exxcellent...
07:29  * [R] does a mr burns with his hands
07:32 < texasmynsted> ha I think I found them :-)
07:32 < [R]> were they under the couch cushions?
07:36 < energizer> I believe an attacker had ssh access to a machine. Is it possible to tell whether any data was transferred out based on the system logs, or do I need the network logs for that?
07:37 < [R]> nope
07:37 < [R]> what magic log would track file copies?
07:38 < Aph3x-WL> why the file copy tracking magic log of course
07:38 < energizer> Is there any log of network traffic on the machine that I might have missed?
07:39 < [R]> yes, every byte that geos in and out gets logged
07:39 < [R]> thats why you have no free space on your drive
07:40 < quint> [R]: btw about the dhcp, see man 5 dhclient.conf for "alias declarations" specifically "fixed-address"
07:40 < [R]> quint: very nice
07:40 < energizer> that kind of thing could be handled with a ring log, but i gather that doesnt exist normally
07:41 < energizer> Is there any log of whether certain files were accessed?
07:43 < quackslikeaduck> time stamps - last accessed ?
07:44 < [R]> of course... tahts why you have no free space on your dirve
07:44 < [R]> because every time a file gets accessed, its logged
07:46 < energizer> quackslikeaduck: `atime` may be helpful, thanks
07:48 < quackslikeaduck> cool, unless theyve some simple "cleanup" script.. may wanna adjust it well to see time correspond with other files..   or,hm..what if they ... somehow used an other process as a "proxy" to manipulate other files/data, never having most or all of its code leaving some.. tricky-to-find/relocate place such as in memory only..hmm
07:51 < energizer> quackslikeaduck: i didnt quite get it, would you mind spelling it out for me a bit more?
07:52 < Sveta> energizer: does 'stat /path/to/file' help you?
07:52 < Sveta> energizer: what [R] meant is that logging each instance of file access would be too much data to log
07:52 < energizer> Sveta: yeah that's where i'm getting the `atime`. i think it helps.
07:52 < Sveta> energizer: but there is a date of last access logged in some file systems
07:53 < energizer> Sveta: exactly
07:53 < Triffid_Hunter> although many folks turn off atime updates for performance reasons
07:53 < Triffid_Hunter> see "noatime" mount option ;)
07:54 < quackslikeaduck> hmm..let me try..:d... I think I meant..  if they used an other process to do their bidding, tampered with its in-memory dataz in order to have it (seem) like only that file (doing innocent, boring regular tasks ) had touched some files which could be easy to overlook,  and only ever having no more than presence in memory to avoid leave traces on disk..?
07:55 < energizer> quackslikeaduck: ah i see
07:55 < energizer> Triffid_Hunter: ok ill watch out for that. thanks.
07:55 < quackslikeaduck> sorry; lol, I'm truly not actuallyreally sure how much of that is in fact possible, easy or commonly done anyway....    and sorry for my poor english too ! :d
07:55 < quackslikeaduck> (i's be a n4b, i meant..:d :x.. )  =)
07:58 < quackslikeaduck> using gpus nvmram seems many years old by now, long ago published... https://www.extremetech.com/computing/205270-proof-of-concept-gpu-rootkit-hides-in-vram-snoops-system-activities  ... would imagine ppl be more creative at this point, heh
07:58 < ch01by> sorry doesn't cut it
07:58 < quackslikeaduck> I'm excused though
07:58 < notmike> Anarchy in the UK!
07:59 < quackslikeaduck> yesss...anger russia a bit,  and have the  queen and putin cursin at eachother... reast will be history
07:59 < notmike> Aren't they related?
08:00 < quackslikeaduck> lol
08:01 < _robin> Has anyone here read "The Linux Programming Interface" by Michael Kerrisk?
08:02 < notmike> Is that a physical book?
08:02 < _robin> Yes
08:03 < notmike> You can probably download it for free online.
08:03 < quackslikeaduck> or you can just go to the library, duh
08:03 < notmike> Truuuue. Wow, so relatable also.
08:03 < _robin> I own the physical version already. I just had a question for anyone who has read it.
08:03 < _robin> Oh well.
08:04 < [R]> if its printed on dead trees
08:04 < notmike> You're unnecessarily limiting your sample size _robin
08:04 < [R]> its out of date and useless
08:04 < quackslikeaduck> off-topic , .. political^ semi-related dramatization of uk-rus confrontation w high production value if some1 is bored.. ~> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaWN0P3cj9w  .. some commenters claim rus propaganda.. who knows.
08:04 < notmike> A pity
08:05 < quackslikeaduck> kept beign updated to match current news-events...but i guess that stopped now, too bad^^
08:05 < [R]> quackslikeaduck: just because you say "off topic" doesnt make it acceptable to post crap
08:05 < notmike> _robin: don't ask to ask just ask
08:05 < quackslikeaduck> hm. probably not acceptable...    but thanks for adding that constructive input, too,
08:05 < notmike> No I will not go out with u
08:05 < quackslikeaduck> shhhh...shes angry
08:05 < _robin> notmike : Will note for future questions, thanks.
08:06 < notmike> I'd much rather be helpful
08:08 < Prof_Birch> Huh, kernel compilation doesn't seem as daunting as I thought. Just time consuming
08:09 < quackslikeaduck> spice it up a bit..make some twists to it. Something fun!
08:09 < notmike> I guess I didn't read the book so I'm wack
08:10 < quackslikeaduck> github.com/0x90  add support for higher wireless transmission, use of bands not normally permitted (most places anyway), or such, for example.  just sayin, lotta weird stuff may be done more or less easily^^
08:10 < quackslikeaduck> also, all the hardening patches n stuff ofc.. assuming ya'll sorted as such though, hopefully.
08:11 < sauvin> quackslikeaduck, take it to some other channel. notmike, "you", not "u".
08:12 < sauvin> Prof_Birch, I've compiled kernels before. The compile itself might take a while, what I found ennervating was picking and choosing what to disable and what to include.
08:12 < sauvin> quackslikeaduck, also: "of course", not "ofc".
08:12 < [R]> sauvin: yeah, well i've popped kernels... beat that
08:13 < quackslikeaduck> Hm.. Sorry, I thought most would be able to understand these things .. not meaning to exclude anyone , or anything like that.. sorry, just old habit hard to turn
08:13 < sauvin> Break it.
08:13 < Prof_Birch> sauvin: I am about to dive into that, as I need a custom kernel for my Android project. It's been something I have found to be daunting, so I am sure it will help with my Linux understanding
08:13 < Triffid_Hunter> sauvin: heh the compile is the quickest part for me.. make oldconfig often takes me more than the few minutes that the compile spends thinking
08:14 < sauvin> Triffid_Hunter, kinda depends on a lot of things. I built a FreeBSD kernel once just for giggles, and spend a couple hours poking through all the OPTIONS, and then another couple hours watching the goofy thing compile.
08:14 < sauvin> Many giggles were had. Also: bottles of beer.
08:22 < hexnewbie> I remember I was able to compile the FreeBSD kernel without having an idea of what I was doing, so much in fact I'm not sure I was compiling the kernel.
08:22 < quackslikeaduck> compiling the lil
08:23 < quackslikeaduck> ..kernel itself is easy peasy, harder when to enforce all the security, optimize it for zfs along with geli (fde) etc... hh
08:23 < quackslikeaduck> all, at least I remember, being a n00b some time back, that's what I found the most troublesome anywayy
08:24 < hexnewbie> My vague memory is of editing an option in a file I didn't even check belongs to the kernel, then compile/installing it with a single command. At this point, I could have been reconfiguring the bootloader or something - I wouldn't know
08:24 < notmike> I enjoy Linux
08:25 < quackslikeaduck> setup in just a couple min using Windows app store. They make it too easy these days
08:27 < sauvin> hexnewbie, I didn't know what I was doing, either. It was just for giggles - but I stopped giggling when I booted on the freaking thing and IT WORKED.
08:28 < Aph3x-WL> it worked? you sure it was freebsd? :P
08:28 < sauvin> At the time, FreeBSD's speed and solidity made Linux bloody awful.
08:29 < sauvin> I don't think that would be true any more.
08:29 < mouses> Aph3x-WL: lol that got a chuckle out of me :)
08:30 < hexnewbie> Speed is hard to measure, as it's relative on what you're doing and how you're measuring. Lately, I've come to believe the myth that the ‘FreeBSD network stack is the faster one’ is based on the lack/difficulty in getting hashes/maps/btrees into iptables' rules.
08:31 < quackslikeaduck> www.trueos.org  desktop fbsd..  opnsense - router/fw/ids..i think based on hardenedbsd (based on fbsd).. i think..! ... in case some weren't aware :d
08:31 < sauvin> I sit corrected. FreeBSD's performance overall just seemed zippier.
08:32 < hexnewbie> Like, we had this router where the sequential rules caused ping times of *seconds* because it took the Linux kernel that much to go over 20000 different rules. The owner simply bought a solution (proprietary software) running on FreeBSD to fix the problem, however not before I had simply re-arranged the iptables rules in a tree that performed as fast as FreeBSD (although the rules were now 200000, not 20000 due to re-inventing the tree,
08:32 < hexnewbie> instead of using something like ipsets or whatever)
08:36 < hexnewbie> Hopefully nftables will take care of that, with both sets and maps.
08:38 < hexnewbie> Oh, I now remember the owner was a genius who thought that rewriting the firewall script that loaded the iptables rules in C instead of bash would make the firewall run faster before going to FreeBSD. That was kind of hilarious.
08:38 < BerenErchamion> What is the general purpose of the kmod package, and why does it need to be removed after your Update Manager installs it?
08:39 < ayecee> needs more context
08:39 < ayecee> without more context, the kmod package loads kernel modules, and it is not normally removed
08:40 < hexnewbie> BerenErchamion: It's the package that contains modprobe, insmod, rmmod, lsmod, depmod
08:41 < BerenErchamion> What would happen if I downloaded and installed the kmod dummy package with my Update Manager, and forget to remove it later on?
08:41 < quackslikeaduck> ...for science!  .. (don't forget to come back tell of it aye^)
08:42 < BerenErchamion> What's for science?
08:42 < ayecee> BerenErchamion: aliens would descend on your location and exterminate your sperm. (more seriously, where are these questions coming from?)
08:43 < ayecee> also, what is a kmod dummy package?
08:43 < mouses> ayecee: get out of my brain lol
08:43 < mouses> ayecee: :)
08:43 < ayecee> heh
08:45 < hexnewbie> Well, I couldn't ask what's an update manager :)
08:45 < ayecee> an update manager is something that manages updates
08:45 < ayecee> hope that helped
08:47 < hexnewbie> So I go to the front desk and ask the update manager to take care of my Ubuntu laptop's Meltdown problem, and he calls the NRC? ;)
08:47 < ayecee> what is an nrc?
08:48 < hexnewbie> nuclear regulatory commission, the dirty bomb fbi
08:48 < kopper> ayecee: https://www.nrc.no
08:48 < ayecee> this joke must have sounded much funnier in your head.
08:48 < hexnewbie> https://www.nrc.gov/
08:49 < kopper> hexnewbie: .no is funnier
08:49 < ayecee> it is, but it still doesn't break the threshold of funny
08:50 < ayecee> moves it from ugh to a low huh.
08:51 < hexnewbie> It's the funniest if you mention your laptop has meltdown issues on an airplane.
08:51 < ayecee> no
08:51 < hexnewbie> You'd just need a year after you get released from arrest to get the joke
08:52 < kopper> ayecee: I really does't
08:52 < ayecee> you're going for edgy, but you've achieved lame
08:52 < kopper> Count as funny that is
08:54 < quackslikeaduck> if u also have overheating problems during the summer.... i suggest to do like me, once  ayear ,optimmaly during spring... simply accept the task of poppin out all the buttons and screws, and vacuum out all the cat hair ..   sure the cat sleeps on the cozy warm laptop,  but u gotta remember to clean it at least once a year..trust me, or it will keep over heating (crashing etc...  sux...just..clean
08:54 < ayecee> wtf
08:54 < quackslikeaduck> i hate alal these screws oon the laptops...always end up a few less each time after i done it
08:54 < hexnewbie> quackslikeaduck: I'd simply take overheating, at least the computer would still boot.
08:55 < quackslikeaduck> a long winter and the fans can get pretty clogged.. i imagine more so if its a long haired or multiple cats
08:55 < sauvin> quackslikeaduck, "you", not "u".
08:55 < hexnewbie> quackslikeaduck: You realise overheating is completely fine after you've had 3 computers to suffer this fate: https://xkcd.com/1994/
08:56 < quackslikeaduck> yeah,...damnit, i keep forgetting
08:56 < sauvin> Would you like some help remembering?
08:56 < ayecee> o_O
08:56 < ayecee> that escalated quicly
08:56 < quackslikeaduck> i want my memory back indeed.. !  afraid u can't help though
08:57 < Triffid_Hunter> hexnewbie: weird, howcome there's only a quarter of the image there?
08:57 < sauvin> Grr.
08:57 < sauvin> cop
08:57 < sauvin> !#$@%##@$%
08:58 < revel> sauvin: Time to set something to automatically do all of that for you.
08:58 < sauvin> I'm kinda philosophically disinclined to actually make that a button or script or something, but thinking maybe I need to review that philosophy.
08:58 < revel> lol
08:58 < revel> Just as I said that...
08:58 < hexnewbie> Triffid_Hunter: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/repairs_2x.png - it's a different image, no idea how and why
08:58 < sauvin> My original feeling is that if you make a gun, you're going to want to USE it.
08:59 < ayecee> i like your reasoning
08:59 < Triffid_Hunter> hexnewbie: wth, is xkcd breaking or something?
08:59 < hexnewbie> Triffid_Hunter: The comic is about breaking stuff, so it might be deliberate.
09:00 < revel> Triffid_Hunter: Funky HTML stuff regarding not shrinking the image, probably.
09:06 < zenix_2k2> guys, i was trying to open another terminal to execute another script as a background process, but then when i tried to end it, it didn't work... here i tried something like this --> https://pastebin.com/cVrt6X7y
09:06 < zenix_2k2> any idea of what did i do wrong ?
09:06 < sauvin> zenix_2k2, can you paste it on some other pastebin? Pastebin.com itself isn't very populear.
09:06 < Triffid_Hunter> zenix_2k2: lots of gui apps will fork another process after launch to clear your terminal in case you don't use &
09:06 < sauvin> Popular, evne.
09:06 < sauvin> Even, even, damn it all to perdition!
09:07 < zenix_2k2> Triffid_Hunter: sorry but i didn't get it much, and what kind of gui apps anyway ?
09:08 < Triffid_Hunter> zenix_2k2: gnome-terminal is a gui app..
09:08 < zenix_2k2> yea i tried that, but when i tried to kill it, the terminal wasn't closed
09:09 < Triffid_Hunter> zenix_2k2: yes, because it spawned a new process
09:09 < zenix_2k2> so in which case that i can end it from my current terminal ?
09:10 < Triffid_Hunter> zenix_2k2: well you can, but you have to find the pid of the new process that's actually running the terminal
09:10 < zenix_2k2> so... how can i do that ?
09:10 < Triffid_Hunter> zenix_2k2: I don't have gnome-terminal but perhaps it has some flag that tells it to not fork?
09:10 < Triffid_Hunter> zenix_2k2: what exactly are you trying to do in the first place though?
09:12 < zenix_2k2> i wrote myself a little monitor which will continuously monitor my program's networking interface... and on the "main terminal" there will be a command to open up that terminal, but since it was "continuously" monitoring, i needed it to be opened in another terminal in order for the current one to proceed
09:12 < zenix_2k2> but i can still end with from the current process ( parent process in specific )
09:12 < zenix_2k2> so i am trying to do whatever i pasted above
09:13 < amosbird> Hi, why is getopt in unistd ?
09:15 < zenix_2k2> so how can i really end to a background process when i that i just had opened ??? and not necessary a background process as long as it spawn a new console
09:15 < zenix_2k2> if you do suggest something else
09:16 < _robin> like a deamon?
09:17 < zenix_2k2> well not necessary a daemon, as long as it spawn a new terminal and execute a script on it
09:17 < zenix_2k2> but someone suggested me "screen", not sure what it is but let's me try
09:20 < zenix_2k2> Nya, screen doesn't seem to work, any other idea people ?
09:20 < _robin> Are you wanting to open a process but have it run in the background?
09:20 < zenix_2k2> no, run in a new console... or basically a new "terminal"
09:21 < zenix_2k2> that is what i tried "gnome -- <that script>"
09:21 < zenix_2k2> gnome-terminal*
09:21 < zenix_2k2> but somehow i can't end that terminal
09:21 < zenix_2k2> at some point
09:21 < collins> is dedicating the rest of your life to linux viable?
09:21 < collins> even richard stallman don't code anymore? He travels around instead?
09:22 < rpgio> collins: yes
09:22 < _robin> collins: yep
09:22 < collins> how old are you two?
09:22 < zenix_2k2> me ?
09:22 < collins> those who said yes
09:22 < zenix_2k2> 15
09:23 < fugee> E: Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-meta/linux-generic_4.8.0.59.72_amd64.deb  404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.161 80]
09:23 < _robin> What does age have to do with it?
09:23 < zenix_2k2> and i am still not sure if you meant me or not, but never mind of that
09:23 < fugee> no matter what i try to install
09:24 < _robin> fugee : is your version of ubuntu old?
09:24 < dka> I have ENOGIT error, how can I install GIT on alpin linux ?
09:25 < fugee> _robin yes lubuntu 16.1
09:25 < _robin> fugee : your could try updating the sources with sed
09:25 < fugee>  was trying to upgrade
09:26 < fugee> can you give me the command for 64 bit
09:26 < fugee> sed ...
09:27 < _robin> sed -i -e 'inserturlhere' /etc/apt/sources.list
09:28 < _robin> I havent done this, but it seems to fix peoples problems who have had the same issue
09:30 < zenix_2k2> so is there anyhow i can end/close a terminal which i just have opened from another terminal ?
09:31 < _robin> Kill the process perhaps?
09:31 < zenix_2k2> yea i tried but it didn't work
09:31 < zenix_2k2> here
09:31 < zenix_2k2> https://pastebin.com/cVrt6X7y
09:31 < zenix_2k2> i tried something like that and didn't work
09:33 < _robin> Are you positive your killing the terminal and not the ping process?
09:33 < zenix_2k2> I am not so sure... all i wanted was to close that terminal which i just has opened with some sort of commands
09:34 < _robin> You could use htop to kill the actual terminal so the window would close
09:35 < fugee> _robin how do i know the url
09:35 < zenix_2k2> wasn't "htop" supposed to display all of the current running processes ?
09:35 < zenix_2k2> not so sure but i think it is
09:36 < _robin> fugee : the url should be the link to the sources. Anyway, it seems like people with this problem have an outdated version of Ubuntu which doesnt happen until 5 years have passed.
09:36 < amelliaa> /buffer 32
09:36 < _robin> fugee : im guessing the sources.list got edited or deleted
09:36 < fugee> _robin trying to upgrade
09:37 < _robin> fugee : try ' cat /etc/apt/sources.list '
09:37 < fugee> _robin yea i messed it up
09:37 < rosco_> Is there any way to install a utf-16 charmap on linux?
09:38 < _robin> fugee : ok. So i am not sure how to repair sources.list
09:38 < _robin> fugee : but I will look
09:38 < zenix_2k2> sorry, connection issues
09:38 < zenix_2k2> so anyhow ? and i don't think that htop will do the job
09:38 < fugee> _robin deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu yakkety main universe restricted
09:38 < zenix_2k2> it is supposed to be listing processes i think
09:39 < fugee> etc
09:39 < fugee> 3 more
09:39 < _robin> fugee : did you try to edit it before?
09:39 < fugee> yea
09:40 < fugee> this is my code in sources.list
09:40 < fugee> i pasted from somewhere
09:40 < _robin> ok. delete sources.list and make a backup of it
09:40 < fugee> i deleted everything in sources.list.d
09:41 < _robin> then ' sudo -i software-properties-gtk '
09:41 < _robin> that will open a gui that lets you select your area and generate a new sources.list
09:44 < fugee> select first 3 or all?
09:44 < fugee> restricted, sorce code ?
09:44 < fugee> select those too?
09:45 < _robin> delete the whole sources.list file
09:45 < fugee> i mv'd it to a backup
09:45 < _robin> so now you can 'rm /etc/apt/sources.list'
09:46 < _robin> then run the command i typed earlier
09:46 < _robin> and it should let you select your area to generate a new sources.list
09:48 < fugee> _robin nothing happens when i click revert
09:50 < _robin> askubuntu.com/questions/124017/how-do-i-restore-default-repositories
09:50 < _robin> that person has the same problem and got a solution
10:06 < date_night> Has anyone here tried self hosting kanboard using apache2, php and sqlite3?
10:07 < date_night> on Debian
10:07 < jim> what's a kanboard?
10:10 < z88> Kanban, is a method for task management. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban
10:10 < date_night> It is this project management software that Im trying to install
10:10 < z88> Recently I saw a blog about somebody who created a kanboard using elm+rust or something like that.
10:10 < jim> web based?
10:11 < date_night> jim: it is self host and requires web browser to work
10:12 < jim> are you try8ing to install and getting stuck?
10:13 < date_night> Yea, so far, when i type in localhost/ on my firefox, I get the apache2 debian default page
10:13 < date_night> But when i type in localhost/kanboard , I get the Not Found error
10:14 < jim> maybe you have to alter apache config to specify the location of the web pages
10:14 < jim> (DocumentRoot)
10:15 < jim> I'll be back in a bit
10:15 < debnet> Hi guys.
10:16 < debnet> I have a strange issue with the sound of my laptop.
10:16 < debnet> Each time the GPU is used, the sound from internal speakers is buzzing.
10:16 < debnet> But I haven't the issue when a headset is plugged.
10:25 < EvaLuAtor> Hello. At work, I'd like to build a build machine for building Yocto Linux images. I'm currently considering going with AMD Ryzen. I don't know much about details of C compilation performance, so I'm unsure about the choice. For the same money, is the Intel i7 or AMD Ryzen better choice?
10:26 < sauvin> Think I'd rather just have a reasonably fast CPU with an unreasonably fast hard drive.
10:27 < EvaLuAtor> Well, I'll have everything fast. :-) I'm just curious about the CPU right now.
10:27 < revel> I've gotten the impression that AMD does parallelization better, which could be helpful with compiling.
10:28 < EvaLuAtor> (Note, I'm not trying to invoke vendor flame wars)
10:28 < sauvin> Yeah, we got that. You had us with "trying to figure this out for a particular purpose".
10:28 < revel> I don't spend time staring at benchmarks or buying and comparing CPUs myself though.
10:31 < jim> sauvin, maybe that means the kind of ssd that fits in a pci-e slot
10:31 < sauvin> Dunno. I've never had an SSD yet.
10:33 < jim> that would certainly satisfy the "unreasonably fast" part
10:40 < EvaLuAtor> thank you
10:42 < Dr_Coke> rindolf:
10:42 < Dr_Coke> jim:
10:42 < Dr_Coke> triceratux:
10:43 < Dr_Coke> I got rid of macOS
10:47 < kraftb> good morning
10:49 < sauvin> Dr_Coke, why?
10:51 < Armand> Dr_Coke: Well done. :)
10:51 < Dr_Coke> sauvin I rang apple and they told me it was an invalid serial number
10:51 < Dr_Coke> i was trying to get help with imessage
10:51 < zen2330> Why do I get "[Failed] Failed to start Light Display Manager" when booting linux iso?
10:51 < sauvin> How had you obtained Mac OS X?
10:52 < sauvin> zen2330, which kind of Linux, and how are you booting it?
10:52 < SoItBegins> Dr_Coke: What kind of hardware were you using?
10:52 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins intel i7
10:53 < Dr_Coke> etc
10:53 < SoItBegins> Dr_Coke: Hmm. But what model of computer?
10:53 < Dr_Coke> Custom
10:54 < Dr_Coke> I wonder if Apple is going to try and come after me
10:54 < SoItBegins> Yeah, Apple will typically tell you to get lost if you call in with a Hackintosh.
10:54 < poutine> EvaLuAtor, threadripper 1950x w/ nvme for storage
10:54 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins but will they pursue me
10:54 < SoItBegins> No.
10:55 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins only if I am selling them I heard
10:55 < SoItBegins> Yeah. Not if you own one, though, I believe.
10:55 < Dr_Coke> Yeah I think I read it didn't stand up in court
10:55 < SoItBegins> Mac Os X will typically refuse to run on non-apple hardware due to various security measures, however.
10:56 < Dr_Coke> Yeah I think I'm going to stay away from it now
10:56 < Dr_Coke> I loved it
10:56 < Dr_Coke> but I don't want any trouble
10:56 < Dr_Coke> When the new HTC U12 comes out
10:56 < Dr_Coke> I think I'm going to sell my iphone too
10:56 < Dr_Coke> and get the HTC
10:57 < pankaj> I want to download just mp4 videos with youtube-dl. What is the command to make it do that or in other words how to download videos with a given format with youtube-dl?
10:57 < sauvin> I'm usually happy with some Samsung phone or other.
10:57 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins I wanted a mac but I just can't afford one
10:58 < Dr_Coke> and there mac pro when it comes will no doubt be highly priced
10:58 < Dr_Coke> sauvin I don't like samsung
10:58 < SoItBegins> Dr_Coke: You should look for one used if you really want one. I highly recommend it.
10:58 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins do you have a mac?
10:58 < SoItBegins> Yes. I’m typing to you from it now.
10:59 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins the problem is I wanted a mac pro and there so old now
10:59 < SoItBegins> What uses do you want it for?
10:59 < Dr_Coke> I would like to  be able to game on it
10:59 < Dr_Coke> and do everything else
11:00 < Dr_Coke> like I do on my computer
11:00 < SoItBegins> What sorts of games? You could probably get away with a newer iMac… probably.
11:00 < MrElendig> why would you want a mac? the hardware is terrible
11:00 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins: I don't like imacs
11:00 < Dr_Coke> I already have a great screen
11:00 < Dr_Coke> it's 32 inch 4k
11:00 < rindolf> Dr_Coke: hi
11:00 < MrElendig> Dr_Coke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8
11:00 < Dr_Coke> and imac just isn't what I want
11:01 < Dr_Coke> 27 inch imac isn't big enough
11:01 < SoItBegins> MrElendig: Yes, but he does want one, so humor him.
11:01 < MrElendig> then he should just go and spend 3k€ on one
11:01 < MrElendig> you can buy external gfx card for them too these days
11:01 < SoItBegins> Orrr buy a reliable used one.
11:02 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins I think I'm going to be happy with linux now
11:02 < MrElendig> SoItBegins: except none of them are reliable
11:02 < SoItBegins> MrElendig: My 2014 MBP would disagree with you.
11:02 < SoItBegins> Dr_Coke: Seems fair.
11:02 < pankaj> Does anybody here use 'youtube-dl' for download videos?
11:02 < Dr_Coke> Can't wait for the HTC phone
11:03 < MrElendig> SoItBegins: see videoi
11:03 < Dr_Coke> Get rid of my iphone and get out of the apple eco system
11:03 < MrElendig> -i
11:03 < Dr_Coke> it's so expensive
11:03 < SoItBegins> MrElendig: I saw it.
11:03 < SoItBegins> I didn’t watch all of it, but I read the description.
11:03 < Dr_Coke> and sell my ipod
11:03 < Dr_Coke> unless I install windows 10
11:03 < Dr_Coke> then I can update my phone
11:04 < MrElendig> why would you need win10 to update the phone?
11:04 < Dr_Coke> MrElendig because it runs like shit when you update from the phone
11:04 < Dr_Coke> you always have to set it up as a new phone to
11:04 < Dr_Coke> or it will run like garbage
11:05 < Dr_Coke> after every update
11:06 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins do you like macs or were you just ramming it up me sideways
11:06 < SoItBegins> Dr_Coke: I really like Macs. And I honestly think they’re more reliable on average than MrElendig insists,
11:07 < SoItBegins> and in any case, the software design is the true benefit from using a Mac.
11:07 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins yeah but they are expensive
11:07 < SoItBegins> Yep. I haven’t bought a new Mac in years.
11:08 < SoItBegins> I typically buy my laptops for $1200-1500 from my used computer store.
11:08 < Dr_Coke> SoItBegins how much is a mac pro from there
11:08 < SoItBegins> I don’t think they have a Mac Pro. They’re a small, local store.
11:08 < Dr_Coke> ahh
11:09 < SoItBegins> Moreover… I wouldn’t actually *recommend* a Mac Pro.
11:09 < gidna> hello
11:09 < SoItBegins> [waves]
11:09 < chchjesus> Jo guys, has anyone [active] here [right now] contributed to the linux kernel for fun? i.e. not because of a job?
11:09 < Dr_Coke> me either there to outdated
11:09 < gidna> Is there a way to use tessercat to convert many png files to a single txt file?
11:09 < Dr_Coke> chchjesus no idea man
11:11 < eraserpencil> hi
11:13 < pressure679> I am putting ~500.000.000 files in one directory. How will it be when I have to get a certain file from this directory? will it be 'fast'?
11:14 < sud0x3> pressure679: likely depend on what you use to get a file, and what you mean by get a file.
11:14 < Armand> Well, only 500 files isn't that much
11:15 < sud0x3> some gui file manager will likely lock up with large amounts of files
11:18 < pressure679> ls'ing a single file seems as if there is only that one file.
11:18 < pressure679> - a single certain file that is.
11:19 < MrElendig> pressure679: depends on the fs and how you are accessing it
11:19 < pressure679> But getting the most recently accessed file - hmm.
11:19 < MrElendig> generally it won't be a problem
11:19 < MrElendig> easy to test btw
11:20 < pressure679> MrElendig: I see, sud0x3, MrElendig, thanks.
11:20 < pressure679> Armand: And I suppose you agree.
11:20 < pressure679> - Thanks.
11:20 < Armand> huh ?
11:20 < MrElendig> the fs of choice can have a big impacg
11:20 < MrElendig> impact*
11:27 < agris> What is the Linux equivalent of OpenBSD?
11:27 < MrElendig> doesn't exist
11:27 < MrElendig> the kernels are fundamentally different
11:28 < MrElendig> linux + pax/grs gives you some of the same protections though
11:28 < MrElendig> but grs basically killed itself by stupidity
11:29 < agris> i meant a Linux distribution of sorts with the same mindset and goals as OpenBSD
11:30 < MrElendig> doesn't really exist either
11:31 < MrElendig> though there are quite a few that uses the same policy as classifying security issues as bugs instead of security issues, to keep their perfect track record of security issues :p
11:35 < pressure679> How ~50GB uncompressed got to be ~500GB compressed is beyond me.
11:35 < pressure679> - Well, this is theory.
11:35 < pressure679> So far.
11:37 < pressure679> Maybe it should just stay uncompressed.
11:38 < agris> maybe
11:41 < gidna> Hello
11:41 < gidna> Is there a way to use tessercat to convert many png files to a single txt file?
11:42  * test1337 punches gidna
11:43 < pressure679> I have a weird question which I doubt a human can answer. Does UTF-16 encoded with GOB and compressed with snappy take up more space than uncompressed and unencoded?
11:43 < pressure679> - On Linux at least.
11:44 < MrElendig> easy to test yourself
11:44 < pressure679> I am reading this ދިވެހިބަސް, and I am not even sure what character set that is.
11:47 < cousteau> o/
11:49 < MrElendig> pressure679: thaana
11:49 < cousteau> when I run `man git commit`, the git-commit manpage is opened.  Is this because I use a hacked version of man which special-cases "git whatever" as "git-whatever", or because my manpage database has a special "git" section?
11:49 < MrElendig> or so google claims
11:50 < MrElendig> cousteau: man-db lets you set up "aliases" like that
11:50 < cousteau> oh I see :)
12:00 < rindolf> cousteau: hi
12:00 < rindolf> MrElendig: hi, sup?
12:00 < cousteau> o/
12:01 < rindolf> cousteau: sup?
12:01 < MrElendig> cousteau: not that this works for man ip route and the like too
12:02 < MrElendig> basically any man page with a - in the title
12:02 < cousteau> oh I see
12:02 < cousteau> "not that" = "note that"?
12:02 < MrElendig> man man pages
12:03 < cousteau> just tried man apt cache
12:04 < cousteau> yeah it works, thanks!
12:05 < BluesKaj> Howdy all
12:45 < TyrfingMjolnir> How can i split and mkv into separate audio and video files?
12:47 < z88> I would do it with ffmpeg. I'm not an expert using it, but when I needed some simple video editing, batch video edit, I did it with ffmpeg.
12:47 < MrElendig> TyrfingMjolnir: mkvtools
12:48 < z88> A like googling for examples could be useful to you. ffmpeg it is not that complicated to use, several examples of the options will give you a starting point.
12:50 < TyrfingMjolnir> MrElendig: Is this the same? https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?sort=&q=mkvtool&maintainer=&flagged=
12:50 < MrElendig> extra/mkvtoolnix-cli
12:50 < MrElendig> there is -gui too (but it sort of sucks)
12:51 < MrElendig> which tool is the most convenient depends a bit on what exactly is inside the mkv
12:52 < MrElendig> and which output format you want
12:53 < MrElendig> advantage of mkvtoolnix is that it handles .cue/tracks/etc nicer than ffmpeg
12:53 < MrElendig> chapters*
12:59 < TyrfingMjolnir> I would like to open the audio in audacity
13:00 < TyrfingMjolnir> It's this !yt lkv1577oOco I would like to extract the audio from 11:00 - 11:30 https://youtu.be/lkv1577oOco?t=11m00s
13:03 < BluesKaj> ain't that the truth :-)
13:04 < zen2330> How to boot into runlevel 3?
13:06 < TyrfingMjolnir> mkvextract ./lkv1577oOco.mkv tracks 1
13:06 < TyrfingMjolnir> fails
13:07 < TyrfingMjolnir> This works: mkvextract ./lkv1577oOco.mkv tracks 1:audio.aac
13:07 < TyrfingMjolnir> Does this convert the audio? Or is it still as in the mkv?
13:08 < ananke> zen2330: does your distro still have the notion of regular runlevels?
13:08 < BluesKaj> mkv is just a wrapper
13:09 < dreadkopp> hey guys. i am expering some weird behavior with a nfs share. i mount the nfs share and sync my vms disk images to it via rsync. running rsync verbosely with --progress the transfer rate spikes up to a few hundred MB/s then drops to a few KB/s .  Logging the interface with bmon i see that traffic is somewhat ~100MiB/s. Any way to get correct readou
13:09 < dreadkopp> ts ?
13:10 < MrElendig> TyrfingMjolnir: youtube-dl can seperate the audio for you too
13:11 < djph> dreadkopp: rsync is telling you what it's doing - that doesn't necessarily mean the network is doing the same thing
13:12 < djph> dreadkopp: I mean, 100MB/sec is 800 mbit/sec (and near on full-throttle for a gbit connection)
13:12 < TyrfingMjolnir> MrElendig: Oh, that I never did
13:13 < ananke> dreadkopp: there's plenty of caching taking place with NFS client. so while the cache fills up rsync experiences very high throughput. once it fills up, and has to drain, the perceived performance drops
13:14 < dreadkopp> djph okay. using pv instead of rsync i get transfer rates at around 800 MB/s though . when it reaches 100% it will still be kinda frozen until transfer has really finished ( a few minutes)
13:14 < JimBuntu> dreadkopp, MB or mb ?
13:14 < ananke> dreadkopp: again: that's due to caching
13:15 < dreadkopp> ananke: ah. that's what i was suspecting but wasn't sure. okay. lemme google how to disable the caching then :)
13:15 < ananke> dreadkopp: why would you want to disable it? that's counterproductive
13:16 < ckkhatri> Hello Linux Experts, i want help to resolve keepalived misbehaving on weird case, is anyone here be able to help me on this?
13:16 < djph> dreadkopp: uh, 800 MB?
13:16 < dreadkopp> ananke because that way me readouts during transfers are weird :P
13:17 < dreadkopp> djph yeah. definitely smells like caching :)
13:17 < ananke> dreadkopp: it's a self inflicted cosmetic problem, not a real one
13:18 < ananke> ckkhatri: not until you describe the actual issue
13:21 < TyrfingMjolnir> MrElendig: That worked
13:22 < ckkhatri> ok, i will describe my issue : I have a HA build on Keepalived for 2 servers , and have priority 100 same on both the servers, now when master server is back after failover normally it shouldn't take the master state as the priority is same. But Keepalived changes the state to master with reason : "Master received advert with same priority 100 but higher IP address than ours "
13:23 < davidsong> General strategy question: I've got Amazon images of various Linux boxes that serve as an app server, and want to keep my data on another drive. I've been adding another disk as /data then just moving the data from /var/ over and symlinking it there. Any big reasons why I shouldn't do this?
13:24 < davidsong> the main reason I'm doing it is velocity; less time spent reading the manual, less config for each service, easy to apply the same pattern to everything
13:25 < davidsong> also apparmor has been unkind to me for doing this, but I can take its unpleasantness
13:26 < djph> davidsong: why not just mount directly into /var then?
13:26 < davidsong> that's not a bad idea actually
13:26 < djph> I mean, okay, you'd have to preload /data with /var so that things don't break horribly at first ... but
13:27 < djph> well, unless you ran multiple drives at the outset (IIRC, most installers let you specify e.g. /dev/sdb1 will be mounted as /var if you're in the "I know what I'm doing" partitioning mode.
13:28 < davidsong> cool I'll give that a try next
13:28 < djph> but if the system is already setup, you'll have to do the sync -> fstab -> (re)mount approach.
13:28 < davidsong> thanks
13:29 < djph> note that even with that approach, some things may freak out anyway
13:30 < davidsong> it's all virtual kit in a blank state anyway, if things cry I can just wipe them and start again
13:47 < Dagmar> davidsong: Ther'es a few more elegant ways to go about that
13:49 < Dagmar> davidsong: Most notably, since this is a virtual machine you should have the option to simply enlarge the virtual disk *directly*, sort of slap the kernel on the butt with a SCSI rescan command (simple echo statement) and then just *grow* the pv/vg/lv
13:50 < Dagmar> This can be done with the machine online and filesystems mounted
14:05 < Blizzkid> Hi all. Anyone has a link to a good guide on how to prepare an image (preferably rhel/centos 7) for diskless booting? I have been playing around with one, based on https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/storage_administration_guide/diskless-nfs-config but I keep getting issues with it, like RTNETLINK file exists etc
14:12 < seven-eleven> umm, just learned that mobile communication is using NAT, so my mobile WAN IP is shared by multiple users, that's why I can never SSH into services within my mobile WAN IP network
14:12 < seven-eleven> maybe i could try a vpn
14:12 < anzipex> Hi. Does anybody here can help me with wifi on my laptop? I just installed Ubuntu on my Acer Aspire E15 E5-576G-55Y4 laptop and wifi not working or appear in Network Manager, but Ethernet works fine. How to fix this problem?
14:13 < pressure679> How come Linux(Fedora) gets considerably slower when my program runs for hours and gets stopped (Ctrl-C)? It's bottlenecks are CPU and HDD, not RAM.
14:13 < pressure679> - Also, the amount of free space only gets updated after a while even when the made files are deleted.
14:14 < seven-eleven> or i could try using IPV6 with my mobile
14:14 < ananke> pressure679: sounds like something has those files still open
14:16 < pressure679> ananke, weird, for debugging that should get traced.
14:22 < pressure679> Well, it works, I wouldn't touch it.
14:25 < ananke> pressure679: not sure what that even means
14:31 < tcpdump> If I want to fork tcpdump and let it run in the background I've learned I can do that via    tcpdump &, but is there way to do it whre it stops dumping output to my console?
14:48 < post-factum> tcpdump: clarify? do you want ctrl+z + bg?
14:49 < JimBuntu> tcpdump, examples of coutput redirection - https://www.guru99.com/linux-redirection.html#1
14:57 < Kharma> tcpdump does this flag help you? http://i.imgur.com/MvYWCtD.png
14:58 < stephen> lol
14:59 < _0x40_> Hi. When I run grub-install /dev/md126 I get "error: disk 'md126,2' not found." Any ideas? I've never had to deal with raid controllers before.
14:59 < stephen> can anyone speak to when this flaw was introduced? https://access.redhat.com/security/vulnerabilities/3442151
14:59 < rypervenche> tcpdump: tcpdump -options -w outputfile.pcap 'blah blah' 2>/dev/null & disown
15:09 < triceratux> stephen: hrm that could take some googling. the scripts arent present at all on Siduction 2018.3.0 & theyve been buggy in arch since 2012 or so https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=153641
15:10 < post-factum> stephen: do not hesitate to ask RH support
15:10 < triceratux> wonder why google waited until now to let them know rofl
15:19 < Truxx> Can someone maybe recommend a good ebook reader (at least 9") with linux running on it?
15:23 < turkeyhand> if I fix the win10 installation with an install USB
15:24 < turkeyhand> how do I reinstall grub
15:24 < turkeyhand> I can't use sudo and other shit
15:24 < turkeyhand> from the "holy shit no os found" or just booting straight to windows
15:24 < turkeyhand> so how do I do that?
15:26 < Namarrgon> is the system using UEFI?
15:26 < turkeyhand> no
15:27 < Namarrgon> then boot the install media of your distro and reinstall grub from there
15:27 < turkeyhand> 4 partition bios. I don't want to reinstall everything for the 3th time this week
15:28 < turkeyhand> I'm using arch, I have a flu, and it didn't use osprober and do it last time
15:28 < _0x40_> turkeyhand: mount your root partitoin, chroot into it, then run grub-install.
15:28 < turkeyhand> after fixing windows?
15:28 < Namarrgon> yes
15:28 < turkeyhand> because I do need windows from time to time
15:29 < turkeyhand> once windows is fixed it's only going to boot into that
15:29 < Namarrgon> yes, boot the arch iso, mount your filesystems, arch-chroot in and reinstall grub into the mbr again
15:30 < turkeyhand> that's what broke it, it didn't find the win10 install
15:30 < Namarrgon> what broke what?
15:30 < turkeyhand> windows is there but I can't get to it and printing my cv a hundred times is what I have to do now
15:30 < Namarrgon> was os-prober installed when you regenerated grub.cfg?
15:30 < turkeyhand> installing arch, I overwrote the mbr somehow with grub, and win10 doesn't work
15:31 < turkeyhand> I think that was the problem, was that it wasn't installed
15:31 < turkeyhand> then. it is now.
15:31 < Namarrgon> install it, regenerate grub.cfg
15:31 < turkeyhand> you mean recover windows with the usb?
15:32 < Namarrgon> no, just regenerate grub.cfg
15:32 < ttoocs> So, I know about kexe, but that seems to also restart userspace when I have used it.. so how does ubuntu's live-patch thing work then?
15:33 < turkeyhand> using which command
15:33 < Namarrgon> the same command you used the first time to generate grub.cfg
15:33 < turkeyhand> it's grub 2.02
15:33 < ttoocs> (Googling about the live-patch seems to just get me into marketing sites that generally just say nothing.)
15:33 < Namarrgon> turkeyhand: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB#Generate_the_main_configuration_file
15:33 < Kharma> _0x40_ make sure 'mdadm' is installed and if it is.. could be a few things, try some things here https://rolandschnabel.de/blog/?p=436
15:33 < turkeyhand> I've got a flu and feel like I'm fucking drunk
15:34 < turkeyhand> maybe I shouldn't do this right now
15:34 < Namarrgon> maybe you shouldn't
15:35 < turkeyhand> it's anxiety provoking when there's stuff piling up I HAVE TO DO, and getting pdf files with signatures out is one of them
15:35 < turkeyhand> I can't do that with linux
15:35 < turkeyhand> managed to create a win10 usb with linux? that's a start
15:36 < Kharma> Xournal lets you add signatures to .pdf in Linux..
15:40 < ttoocs> or, is there arguments to kexe like --load-preserve-context and -x wich would let it seemingly continue running?
15:43 < Bru-> hmm lubuntu is nice and light
15:44 < Namarrgon> ttoocs: kexec is a reboot that skips the hardware initialization, you can't preserve userspace
15:45 < ttoocs> Alright, that's what I initally thought.
15:45 < ttoocs> But now how does that ubuntu live-patch system work?
15:46 < Namarrgon> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/livepatch/livepatch.txt
15:48 < turkeyhand> Kharma, does it let you read all the dozens of weird ones
15:48 < turkeyhand> I mean permissions and.. whatever else
15:48 < ttoocs> Namarrgon: Excellent, thank you.
15:48 < Dominian>  /13
15:50 < turkeyhand> Namarrgon, can you unquiet me in archlinux please
15:51 < Dominian> Please don't bring that here
15:51 < Dominian> use PM
15:51 < turkeyhand> can I PM you Namarrgon
15:51 < Namarrgon> sure
16:01 < mawk> I'm trying to setup anonymous cloning through ssh. I have a git user who owns the repository, the repositories has modes 644 on its files. I added an user anonymous, set a blank password. I can clone using git clone anonymous@myserver:repos/thing.git but whenever I try to push it hangs, and even after I ^C the git push a stalled git receive-pack process is blocked on the server, it doesn't go away
16:01 < mawk> am I doing something wrong ?
16:04 < falieson> I'm getting back into nix as my primary desktop/development env from osx. I loved Spectacle WM , does anyone know an equivalent for nix?
16:05 < almostdvs> window snapping?
16:05 < almostdvs> most WMs do that out of the box
16:06 < rascul> mawk anonymous doesn't own the repo?
16:06 < falieson> move window to screen left/right, move to left half 50% 33% 66%
16:06 < rascul> mawk seems like you're going to run into issues with two users writing to the same directory
16:08 < mawk> anonymous is supposed to be read-only rascul
16:08 < mawk> and two users can write no ? git is supposed to use locking
16:08 < mawk> there are config options to share the repository
16:08 < rascul> mawk it's a potential permissions issue
16:08 < mawk> I want the git push to fail properly
16:08 < mawk> not to succeed
16:08 < rascul> ahh you want it to fail
16:08 < mawk> yeah
16:09 < mawk> for now it just freezes, and leave a stalled process on my server that I have to kill
16:09 < rascul> mawk maybe try with --verbose?
16:09 < rascul> maybe it'll give more insight
16:10 < mawk> I already tried, it gives nothing
16:10 < mawk> the stalled git process on the server is blocking on a call to futex()
16:10 < rascul> i dunno but maybe #git does
16:11 < seven-eleven> should i use racoon, openswan or strongswan for ipsec
16:11 < mawk> nobody answered, there
16:11 < mawk> you should use wireguard instead of ipsec seven-eleven
16:11 < mawk> problem solved
16:13 < Bru-> hmm lubuntu is a nice bare distro
16:13 < mawk> rascul: I tried to prevent pushing at the source by adding a pre-receive hook but it isn't executed
16:13 < Bru-> perfect for slapping docker/hassio on it
16:13 < mawk> it freezes before
16:13 < Bru-> and calling it a day
16:13 < mawk> why would you use a GUI distribution for containers ?
16:14 < seven-eleven> mawk, does wireguard support L2TP
16:14 < Bru-> mawk: because im still a linux newb
16:14 < seven-eleven> seven-eleven, my LTE Router only implements L2TP to connect to a vpn server
16:14 < Bru-> mawk: gettin me feet wet still
16:14 < seven-eleven> with a preshared key and username/password
16:14 < mawk> ah ok seven-eleven , then no
16:14 < mawk> but why don't you put the VPN after the router ?
16:14 < mawk> in the linux machine it's connected to
16:14 < zenix_2k2> one question, let's say i am already root, so how can i see my root password ?
16:15 < mawk> and make that machine a router
16:15 < mawk> zenix_2k2: passwd
16:15 < seven-eleven> mawk, because i want to implement the LTE router at multiple locations and want to save and extra network device
16:15 < ayecee> zenix_2k2: you cannot
16:15 < zenix_2k2> cause i want to have another authentication
16:15 < rumpel> zenix_2k2, you can't
16:15 < zenix_2k2> in my program
16:15 < mawk> ah you mean see, not set
16:15 < mawk> you want to check the root password zenix_2k2 ?
16:15 < mawk> like, the user gives you the password and you check if it's that of root ?
16:15 < zenix_2k2> mawk: yea... ( and i am already root )
16:15 < zenix_2k2> mawk: yes
16:16 < zenix_2k2> in case you know... the root-user is going somewhere else and leave my program opened to a non-administrative user... so i wanna limit some of my program's functions to another authentication
16:17 < zenix_2k2> since in that case, the non-ad user is also root but he/she can only execute some of the functions, other need to re-authenticate to be executed
16:17 < phizzy_> Hiya guys! How are we today? Good here, lovely day out!
16:18 < zenix_2k2> even though it sounds impossible but believe me i have a way, the only thing i need right now is how to see the root password when i am ALREADY root
16:18 < ayecee> zenix_2k2: you cannot. you can only set the password.
16:18 < mnemon> zenix_2k2: /etc/shadow has the hashed version
16:18 < mnemon> assuming files auth
16:19 < zenix_2k2> ayecee: even when i am already root ?
16:19 < zenix_2k2> "already"
16:19 < ayecee> even when you are already root
16:19 < mawk> zenix_2k2: you can read the hashed password from /etc/shadow with getspnam("root")
16:19 < zenix_2k2> now this is a little bit confusing... why isn't it possible ?
16:19 < zenix_2k2> i think root is like... god on linux
16:19 < likcoras> zenix_2k2: the password itself isn't stored anywhere
16:19 < ayecee> because the plain password is not stored anywhere
16:19 < rypervenche> zenix_2k2: What are you trying to solve here? Why not use something like sudo and limit it to the functions that need to be run? Or something of that nature.
16:19 < mawk> then hash the user-provided password in the same way
16:20 < likcoras> so it is impossible for anyone to get it, since it isn't stored anywhere at all. YOu can't get stuff that doesn't exist, even as root.
16:20 < zenix_2k2> rypervenche: this is actually a python's function... i can't really use shell commands to execute that kinda functions, this need interactions within the script
16:20 < mawk> he just wants to check if the user-provided password is the same as the root password
16:20 < Armand> su from another account and reset the root pass. ;)
16:20 < mawk> it's not impossible at all
16:20 < zenix_2k2> yea, i suppose
16:20 < zenix_2k2> so is there anyhow i can decrypt the hash ?
16:21 < ananke> zenix_2k2: no
16:21 < mawk> but why ?
16:21 < zenix_2k2> yea, why ?
16:21 < mawk> you just hash the user-provided password in the same way
16:21 < mawk> and you compare the hashes
16:21 < rypervenche> You could hash the password tiven and see if it's the same.
16:21 < ananke> zenix_2k2: what exactly are you trying to achieve?
16:21 < rypervenche> s/tiven/given/
16:21 < ayecee> zenix_2k2: a hash is a one-way function
16:21 < mnemon> zenix_2k2: there's python pam modules that will use the same method as the system to check the password
16:21 < zenix_2k2> annake: i already said above
16:21 < J3kyl> yeah I’d say just change the root password
16:21 < zenix_2k2> oh there is ?
16:21 < ananke> zenix_2k2: not sure if that ever was clear
16:21 < likcoras> zenix_2k2: it's only supposed to go one way. The entire point of the hashing is to prevent anyone from reversing it to the original password.
16:21 < zenix_2k2> what module is that ?
16:21 < rypervenche> zenix_2k2: I think he asks because we still don't understand what you're trying to do.
16:21 < mnemon> python-pam
16:22 < mnemon> zenix_2k2: (just googled it up a minute ago but seems like it should do the trick)
16:24 < zenix_2k2> mnemon: actually that module does the job, but when i try to authenticate with the user "root", it doesn't seem to work and i remember that i inputted the password correctly
16:24 < zenix_2k2> btw, Ubuntu
16:24 < zenix_2k2> by the way*
16:24 < zenix_2k2> :P
16:24 < mawk> ...
16:25 < mawk> you should have told that from the beggining
16:25 < mawk> instead of going with that crazy idea of getting the cleartext root password
16:25 < KekSi> so your permissions need to be fixed
16:25 < zenix_2k2> dude, i didn't know how to explain
16:25 < mawk> well I understood what you said from the beggining
16:25 < mawk> what you were trying to achieve
16:25 < zenix_2k2> and then that guy above suggested me a module named "pam"
16:25 < zenix_2k2> so i tried
16:25 < mawk> ah ok sorry, I thought you already tried it before coming here
16:26 < mawk> could you paste your code somewhere ?
16:26 < zenix_2k2> just simply... "import pam; p=pam.pam(); p.authenticate("root", <password>)
16:26 < zenix_2k2> ( Ubuntu )
16:26 < mawk> yeah
16:26 < mawk> did you check the root password ?
16:26 < zenix_2k2> but i remember that i inputted the password correctly
16:26 < mawk> type su
16:26 < ayecee> what happens when you try?
16:27 < mawk> also, to input the root password in a safe manner you need to make sure you're in an interactive session, then disable echo on the terminal
16:27 < zenix_2k2> try wut ?
16:27 < ayecee> when you try to run that bit of code
16:27 < zenix_2k2> Oh, right.. gotcha
16:27 < zenix_2k2> ayecee: returned False
16:27 < zenix_2k2> which wasn't what i expected
16:27 < mawk> the docs say what about that return value ?
16:27 < zenix_2k2> True = correct password, False = otherwise
16:27 < mawk> uh
16:28 < mawk> in the real C function there are a ton of return values
16:28 < mawk> your lib isn't very helpful
16:28 < ayecee> i suppose the password must be incorrect
16:28 < mawk> I'd just use the C function if I were you
16:28 < zenix_2k2> in Ubuntu... i think you should do "sudo su" instead of "su"
16:28 < rypervenche> This is Ubuntu, is su-ing to root allowed?
16:28 < zenix_2k2> C function ?
16:28 < zenix_2k2> you mean i should perform these tasks via C over Python ?
16:28 < ayecee> zenix_2k2: are you entering the sudo password, or the su password?
16:29 < rascul> sudo su is silly
16:29 < zenix_2k2> sudo
16:29 < rascul> use sudo -i
16:29 < ayecee> okay, that's why. that's not the root password
16:29 < mawk> yeah, using ctypes you can call any C function from python
16:29 < mawk> from the libc, or from libpam here
16:29 < zenix_2k2> ayecee: i actually inputted the password for "sudo su"
16:29 < ayecee> same. not root password
16:29 < zenix_2k2> wait, su is not sudo ?
16:29 < ayecee> correct
16:29 < rascul> no
16:30 < rypervenche> sudo uses your user password, su does not. "sudo su" is still considered sudo.
16:30 < rascul> su requires the password of the user you're switching to, sudo is configurable about which password it wants
16:30 < zenix_2k2> what's so different ??? i think in su's manual says that "su defaults to becoming the superuser"
16:30 < rascul> but usually by default sudo wants your user password
16:30 < zenix_2k2> isn't sudo superuser ?
16:30 < rascul> no
16:30 < zenix_2k2> Hm, so what is sudo ?
16:30 < Dagmar> Don't say "sudo su".
16:30 < ayecee> zenix_2k2: it becomes superuser, but it does not ask for superuser password.
16:30 < Dagmar> It should be "su sudo"
16:31 < rascul> sudo by default will use root but doesn't need to
16:31 < rascul> sudo -u <someuser>
16:31 < zenix_2k2> if sudo = root then what does su equal to ?
16:31 < Dagmar> That way everyone's easily able to determine that the command is insane
16:31 < rascul> sudo != root
16:31 < rumpel> it should be "sudo sudo sudo su" ... sounds nicer
16:31 < mawk> sudo uses your own password typically
16:31 < zenix_2k2> now this is confusing, since some pages told me that
16:31 < mawk> just su asks for root's password specifically
16:31 < rascul> abraham lincoln said you can believe everything on the internet
16:32 < rumpel> zenix_2k2, well, many pages mention "sudo su" .. which shows, that they don't really know, how it works.
16:32 < ayecee> it just seems confusing because a bunch of people are rambling about it in a confused way
16:32 < rascul> well, su asks for the target user's password
16:32 < svara> hi, when I run a remote command through ssh non-interactively, the $PATH is completely different than in the interactive case. I get that this has to do with some scripts not running when no pty is allocated, but then sourcing ~/.bashrc doesn't help either, even though that's where the $PATH is set. What's going on?
16:32 < svara> $ ssh -i key.pem user@hostname 'source ~/.bashrc; echo $PATH'
16:32 < svara> that's how I run it; the output is different than when I do echo $PATH interactively
16:32 < bigpresh> sudo asks for *your* password, to verify you're you, checks what you're allowed to do based on the sudoers file, then runs what you asked it to as the user you asked it to, if you're allowed to.
16:32 < mawk> there's /etc/profile also svara
16:32 < rascul> svara try sourcing /etc/profile
16:32 < zenix_2k2> slow down guys, my brain isn't an core-i7 to process all of those infos
16:32 < rascul> or running a login shell
16:32 < mnemon> zenix_2k2: so if you do the pam auth against your user it will probably say true :P
16:32 < bigpresh> If you didn't specify a "target" user, then the default is root.
16:33 < rascul> bigpresh the password sudo wants is configurable
16:33 < zenix_2k2> mnemon: indeed it was true... but still so confusing
16:33 < zenix_2k2> anyway let's me do something first
16:34 < bigpresh> rascul: Ah, is it?  I know you can use NOPASS in sudoers to allow sudo'ing without entering your password again, at least.
16:34 < svara> mawk, rascul: makes no difference. export PATH is done in ~/.bashrc anyway
16:35 < bigpresh> rascul: Ah, yes, you're right - the targetpw or runaspw flags in `man sudoers`.  TIL :)
16:35 < rascul> bigpresh there are several options for which password sudo will ask for, see for example the rootpw and targetpw in sudoers
16:36 < rascul> yep you found it
16:36 < bigpresh> In general, though, in the most common setups you'll see in the wild, it's going to want your password, or no password :)
16:36 < rascul> usually, opensuse has it configured to ask for the root password by default
16:36 < ayecee> weird
16:36 < rascul> just as an example of where it might differ from expectations on other distros
16:36 < bigpresh> That's a srange default.
16:37 < LTCD> How do I install Java JDK 1.7? I do not want the openjdk. I am on Kali Linux.
16:37 < rascul> some people think the user password allowing access to root is bad, and i guess that's what opensuse was thinking
16:37 < bigpresh> Somewhat negates the whole idea of using sudo to allow people to elevate privileges without sharing root's password with everyone, so that seems a backwards design choice.
16:37 < rascul> some people think that giving out the root password to people is bad
16:37 < mnemon> svara: interactive also loads /etc/bash.bashrc
16:38 < rascul> bigpresh sudo is easy to audit, so it might be preferred to use sudo if you've already given out the root password
16:39 < svara>  mnemon, looks like this should have been done indirectly by /etc/profile. anyway something is super wierd. I added "echo blabla" to the end ~/.bashrc; which prints on interactive login, but not when I source it non-interactively
16:39 < svara> so it looks like the source command just doesn't work?
16:39 < mnemon> svara: does you .bashrc have a non-interactive guard?
16:39 < mnemon> my default on arch seems to
16:40 < mnemon>  [[ $- != *i* ]] && return
16:40 < svara> ohh crap, yes
16:40 < svara> that's it
16:40 < svara> thanks
16:40 < mnemon> np
16:40 < rascul> svara when bash is invoked non interactively it won't look at .bashrc on its own
16:40 < rascul> https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html#Bash-Startup-Files
16:41 < svara> I don't get what that's good for mnemon, major trap ;)
16:41 < mnemon> you're supposed to use that file for interactive sessions :)
16:50 < voices> is there a way to have a kind of pseudo directory that shows the collective contents of multiple other directories?
16:50 < voices> like a symlink that can point to several locations simultaneously
16:50 < rypervenche> voices: Yes, overlayfs
16:51 < voices> rypervenche: is that a utility
16:51 < rypervenche> voices: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Overlay_filesystem
16:56 < mawk> voices: mount -t overlay overlay $merged -o lowerdir=$dir1,lowerdir=$dir2,lowerdir=$dir3,upperdir=$upper,workdir=$work
16:57 < mawk> replace $merged by the merged directory, then you should have directories $upper and $work on a common filesystem, you'll find the changes to files in $upper, $work is just used for internal things
16:57 < mawk> no actually it's lowerdir=$dir1:$dir2:$dir3 sorry
16:58 < mawk> and $dir1 etc are the directories to merge
16:58 < rypervenche> mawk: lol, did you click the link I sent?
16:59 < mawk> no rypervenche why ?
16:59 < mawk> I was exercising my memory
17:00 < voices> so then, for instance, ls $merged would show the contents of $dir1, $dir2, and $dir3 ?
17:00 < voices> mawk:
17:02 < mawk> yes
17:02 < mawk> and any change to these will be recorded in $upper
17:02 < mawk> you can mask out specific directories by creating a device file of type 0:0 in $upper
17:03 < mawk> for instance if one of the lower dirs contains $upper, $merged or $work it could be useful to mask them out
17:03 < mawk> also you can set extended attributes on directories to make them appear empty instead in $merged
17:04 < mawk> so for instance to mask out an hypothetical $dir1/.ssh directory, you'd do mknod $upper/.ssh c 0 0; chmod 0000 $upper/.ssh
17:07 < mawk> if you want the user to see the contents of a directory with another directory overlaid over the first, but the contents to really stay recorded in the first directory, you can specify it as the upper dir instead of giving an empty one
17:13 < mawk> if you want a read-only overlay you just let out upperdir and workdir
17:13 < mawk> of course
17:16 < Desetude> I just installed archlinux and when booting I'm getting the error 'Timed out waiting for device dev-disk-by/x2duuid-B230\x2d65B7.device.' followed by 'Dependency failed for /boot.', 'Dependency failed for Local File Systems.' Relevant: https://ptpb.pw/IF0_? https://ptpb.pw/W2iu https://ptpb.pw/yOnQ
17:17 < awesomeaniruddh> https://paste.linux.community/view/0531051c
17:17 < awesomeaniruddh> I'm using that shell script to read from a FUSE filesystem
17:18 < awesomeaniruddh> The read function for that filesystem randomly seeds errors into the contents of files being read
17:19 < awesomeaniruddh> Yet, when i run that script, the second dd reads the same contents for that file every single time it's called in the loop
17:20 < awesomeaniruddh> Anybody have any ideas on what might be the reason?
17:20 < awesomeaniruddh> I can't reproduce this if I manually run dd in the shell
17:29 < mawk> is it a bad idea to use the unencrypted git:// scheme for anonymous access to my repositories ?
17:29 < mawk> I don't feel like setting up that CGI thing over https
17:31 < kurahaupo> mawk: since it's pull-only and public/open source, it's of no consequence to you. However the people pulling from you might care. Can you do ssh+git:// ?
17:31 < bonestormii_> Hi all: I'm interested in making a special file-like object that you can work with like a file (read/write data to it as a file), but that has some other custom behaviors. Is there some kind of particular file system object that is appropriate for this?
17:32 < kurahaupo> bonestormii_: fuse
17:32 < bonestormii_> seems perfect! thanks kura
17:32 < rascul> mawk why not https?
17:33 < rascul> oh, you said already
17:33 < mawk> yes kurahaupo
17:33 < mawk> I'm gonna try one more time with anonymous ssh
17:34 < mawk> bonestormii_: a kernel module can do it also
17:34 < mawk> depending on what you need to do
18:08 < bonestormii_> mawk: Thanks so much, device files via a kernel module may be what I'm really after.
18:10 < Ashex> i got a bash function that is a curl command with a json payload. It works in my bash shell but when I run it through a jenkins job the double quotes in the json array around variables is dropped. Anyone know why? https://pastebin.com/GP6BKQ3f
18:12 < toothe> ugh...I applied the CIS stigs and my machine broke.
18:13 < toothe> damn...now I need to figure out which stig did this.
18:17 < codenomics> Howdy
18:22 < sirwilliam> Hilo all. How's everyone doing i hope that everyone is well.
18:23 < sirwilliam> I'm on the debian website, and I can install packages then transfer via usb over to my laptop. It gets kinda old when searching for all the dep. Is there a way I can download all of the .deb packages from debians website so I can store them onto a portable harddrive?
18:25 < sirwilliam> Like download all of this: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/allpackages, in one go instead of individually?
18:25 < ||JD||> sirwilliam: you don't want to do that, use the packages manager, it will install those you want as you request
18:26 < ||JD||> man apt-get
18:26 < ||JD||> man sources.list
18:27 < Codenomics> sounds like there is no network connection on the laptop
18:27 < tds> you can run your own local offline mirror if that's what you want, though
18:27 < jim> sirwilliam, ok, there used to be something called apt-zip, where you run apt-get, and instead of downloading them immediately, you get a script you run on a machine that has net, and transfer the result (a .zip file) to the laptop
18:27 < Codenomics> sirwilliam, are you not able to connect the laptop to the internet?
18:28 < sirwilliam> Thank you! Appreciate the help. I'm wanting to do an offline mirror. Where does one download the mirror from? I'm on a windows PC and transfering to a linux pc.
18:28 < jim> sirwilliam, is it that you want to privide net to the laptop?
18:28 < jim> provide
18:28 < sirwilliam> It's an old laptop and I don't have a cardbus network card, ha ha.
18:29 < jim> so, you don't have any net hardware on the machine?
18:29 < jim> is it too old to have usb?
18:29 < sirwilliam> I do have db-9, and usb1.
18:29 < Codenomics> wow
18:29 < Pentode> lord
18:29 < Pentode> lol
18:29 < sirwilliam> ha ha!
18:30 < Codenomics> I have used newer machines for target practice!
18:30 < jim> did they hit the target?
18:30 < Pentode> i thought i used old hardware ;p
18:30 < Codenomics> jim, once I got close enough, those things were heavy and couldn't throw far
18:30 < sirwilliam> All the way back to 1997, lol.
18:31 < sirwilliam> I couldn't get stretch to install, I guess debian dropped support for sixth gen intel cpus.
18:34 < jim> sirwilliam, what's the cpu?
18:35 < jim> you might be able to upgrade to stretch
18:36 < jim> what was usbl btw?
18:37 < sirwilliam> pentium II
18:37 < jim> let me find out
18:38 < sirwilliam> Thank you.
18:39 < sirwilliam> I've downloaded Packages.gz from debian's site, but when I gunzip it's an exe instead of .deb files.
18:42 < jim> sirwilliam, how much ram does the machine have?
18:43 < jim> and what's the max it can have?
18:44 < jim> sirwilliam, packages.gz is a compressed text file which lists the packages
18:46 < jim> sirwilliam, also, here's a page describing the supported hardware, and btw, pentium II should work, it's an i386 machine
18:46 < sirwilliam> Currently has 90 mb
18:46 < jim> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.html.en
18:47 < Pentode> man you are really pushing it, lol ;p
18:47 < jim> (that's part of the release notes)
18:48 < jim> ok, that's probably the issue... they say you need at least 256 mb for apt and dpkg to work properly
18:48 < sirwilliam> It's odd but couldn't get it to work, ha ha. Tried burning the ISO at super slow speeds on windows and even in mint on my main pc, only works with jessie, lol.
18:48 < sirwilliam> Only using the frame buffer, not using X. Ha ha.
18:48 < jim> how did it "not work"?
18:49 < jim> yeah, x might be a stretch with that amount of ram
18:49 < Pentode> your best bet would be using a very minimal distro
18:49 < sirwilliam> After clicking install, would bring an error, when searching google someone said that the error was caused by issues reading from the install media.
18:49 < jim> yeah
18:50 < Pentode> i've run linux on some pretty old hardware (I have a p120 with 16mb of ram) but not with recent kernels
18:51 < jim> if you could get more ram for the machine? how much could you put into it?
18:51 < msiism> from observing the behavior of tools like cp, rm etc., it seems that command-line utilities in linux generally only prepend error messages with their own name, not normal messages. but then, there are notification messages (that are not errors) that one might issue from background processes to stdout. should these generally have the program name infront? it would make sense to me.
18:52 < bls> msiism: there are no standards or conventions
18:52 < Fusl> does anyone here know when cdn.kernel.org will be back up again?
18:52 < sirwilliam> Says max ram for mine is 160mb
18:53 < jim> ok
18:54 < jim> do you have other laptops that are newer? :)
18:54 < hexnewbie> Fusl: It's up for me. The purpose of a CDN is to serve local mirrors (redistribution, geographic mostly; although I assume fallback is possible if intelligent geodns is used), so I suspect your local cdn mirror is down, not the thing
18:54 < sirwilliam> Yes sir, newest is an alienware r2
18:55 < Fusl> hexnewbie: it's served by fastly.com, fastly.com reports an error that the backend server is unreachable:
18:55 < Fusl> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 503 first byte timeout
18:55 < jim> what's something you'd be willing to install something onto other than the pII?
18:55 < Fusl> 2018-05-16 16:51:53 ERROR 503: first byte timeout.
18:55 < msiism> bls: ok, thanks. i'll put the program name infront of notifications from bg processes then so it's clear which program issues them.
18:55 < sirwilliam> Anything, dual boot windows 10 and linux on it.
18:56 < gr8> I have a text PDF that is image only; is there some magic tool that keeps the format and everything, but makes the text searchable?
18:56 < jim> if you have something with like 2-4 gb ram, that should work well
18:56 < hexnewbie> gr8: pdfsandwitch
18:57 < bls> gr8: you'd have to OCR the document if it's a pure image
18:57 < hexnewbie> gr8: Errr, pdfsandwich. But it does mess with the images a little bit, may make them grayscale or rotate them to proper orientation. Good for 19th century Google Books, may be bad for other images. I do keep the original
18:58 < jim> sirwilliam, and if it's a laptop and you're still interested in debian, there's an image which has firmware for a lot of the wireless cards out there
18:58 < gr8> thanks hexnewbie, sounds like what I was looking for :)
18:59 < jim> let me know if that interests you, and I'
18:59 < jim> will get you a link
19:00 < jim> sirwilliam, ^
19:00 < sirwilliam> jim: Thanks, only thing I would use internet for on it would be installing packages, currently in the market for a cardbus network card, but may also just use the serial connection.
19:01 < jim> sirwilliam, what's your current internet connection speed?
19:01 < sirwilliam> Currently what would work, if I could figure out how to download all of the packages, then I could just install from usb. But can't seem to figure how how.
19:02 < Pentode> most repos are accessible from the internet, couldnt you just download them that way?
19:02 < sirwilliam> Mainly only use sc, remind, calcurse, taskwarrior, vit, vim, python, etc. But navigating to each dep got old after the first package install lol. That's what spawned my current mission of creating and offline repo for all debian jessie packages.
19:02 < mrush> on one of my systems there is not found /sys/bus/pci/device/<pci:id>/iommu_group, i'm using kernel verision 4.4.x, does the kernel still use iommu groups for pci at the sysfs path i mention
19:03 < jelly> sirwilliam: alternative approach, connect the boot disk (what is it, 2.5" 44pin PATA?) to a newer machine that has internet access, and install there
19:04 < mrush> i have read that on kernel version ~3.6 this should be a symlink, was this design moved away from in the interveining versions from 3.6 to 4.4
19:05 < astronavt> is there a decent windows port of rsync out there
19:05 < sirwilliam> jelly: IDE, sometimes I go to pretty remote locations with no internet, so it would be nice to have all the packages on a harddrive, then if I want something just plug it in, mount it, then install the packages.
19:05 < astronavt> decent meaning trustworthy and not bug-ridden
19:06 < jelly> astronavt: cygwin? :-)
19:06 < astronavt> :(
19:06 < astronavt> really dont wanna use cygwin
19:06 < jelly> this isn't ezactly a question for ##LINUX
19:06 < astronavt> yeah i know but not sure where else ot ask
19:06 < astronavt> maybe superuser.com
19:06 < sirwilliam> astronavt: I just use a master folder and scp between machines
19:07 < jelly> ##windows or ##windows-server depending on your OS, astronavt
19:07 < astronavt> ##windows is a cesspool
19:07 < astronavt> worst community i have ever seen anywhere on irc ever
19:07 < bls> so windows support becomes our purview?
19:07 < astronavt> also they are very adamantly only about windows api and development
19:07 < astronavt> nothing about windows software
19:08 < astronavt> no obviously... just thought i might ask since its a popular program on linux
19:08 < jelly> they would probably know where to ask next tho
19:08 < noodlepie> microsoft are dickheads!
19:08 < astronavt> maybe, probably not. im gonna find a forum or something to ask on
19:08 < astronavt> hopefully at work they will start officially sanctioning linux VMs soon
19:09 < jelly> the only barely ontopic answer would be WSL and that's even more :-) than cygwin
19:09 < noodlepie> Their pwoershell and Linux services for windows are only to gauge how many people are using linux so they can take some dumb business method action to try and recaptivate useres
19:09 < mrush> astronavt: people in this channel 'sperg out when you ask casual questions. they can only answer qeustions with narrow parameters such an 'what does this log entry mean'
19:09 < astronavt> to be fair powershell has a lot of positive attributes
19:09 < sirwilliam> astronavt: I use scp with aliases upl and downl, download first when finished messing with the files then upload to master folder.
19:09 < jelly> disclosure: haven't used WSL, maybe it's a feasible option
19:09 < astronavt> mrush trust me its better than ##windows
19:09 < jim> sirwilliam, then you should also be able to use sshfs
19:09 < mrush> astronavt: as far as i know, rsync is a unix tool
19:09 < noodlepie> They suck and all businesses practices interfere with Free technical software processes, the goals of each community re entirely different. Once is to make money to survive, the other is to produce the best software, technically!
19:09 < noodlepie> Stick to free software and the world will be your friend
19:10 < astronavt> i agree
19:10 < ananke> noodlepie: seriously, take that tirade elsewhere
19:10 < astronavt> if only my office thought the same way ;)
19:10 < mrush> astronavt: i'd also suggest ssh, you can use plink.exe on windows and get most of ssh's functionality
19:10 < astronavt> yeah im using scp right now and its fine
19:10 < noodlepie> ananke, ok
19:10 < astronavt> i just have a bunch of bigger datasets and stuff i need to move around and rsync is just better
19:10 < astronavt> especially for updating files that already exist
19:11 < sirwilliam> astronavt: very true
19:11 < Sonolin> yea its a shame Linux is being infested with Micro$oft
19:11 < jim> astronavt, yeah, I suspect many of us are moving away from windows and towards linux... me, I'm all the way there
19:11 < bls> why do I feel like I'm reading /. in the '90s?
19:11 < Sonolin> I mean who actually believes they are doing it for Linux interests, rather than some ulterior motive?
19:11 < ananke> Sonolin: wtf are you even talking about?
19:11 < Sonolin> fuck Micro$oft
19:11 < ananke> Sonolin: take that elsewhere. we don't need imbecile fanboys here
19:12 < mrush> astronavt: honestly i would use samba in that case. i suppose you have ruled it out due to constraints you haven't mentioned
19:12 < Sonolin> stfu or gtfo its on topic
19:12 < jim> astronavt, so you can use sshfs and rsync (well that's one way)
19:12 < Sonolin> this is the ##linux channel, where else should I take the convo?
19:12 < jelly> Sonolin: bashing MS is not ontopic
19:12 < ananke> Sonolin: yet here you are, spewing stuff completely offtopic
19:12 < astronavt> mrush yeah its to sync w/ a linux server
19:12 < astronavt> sync linux server w/ a windows network share actually
19:12 < Sonolin> an example of why Micro$oft is a failed company and is just trying to stay afloat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLAIMB7whdc
19:12 < jim> Sonolin, watch the language please
19:12 < Sonolin> sorry jim
19:12 < mrush> astronavt: i see
19:13 < astronavt> WSL arose to try and recapture the developer market its not that complicated
19:13 < Sonolin> also, I'm not just mindlessly bashing Microsoft... I even posted a video to backup my point
19:14 < mrush> Sonolin: what do you mean by 'Linux [is] being infested my microsoft'? do you mean the SUSE -> Microsoft business entaglement or are you griping about systemd being too windows-like for your taste?
19:14 < astronavt> i gotta say though, if theres a DE/distro that mimics the look and feel of Win 95, i'd be in
19:14 < Sonolin> my point is they are infesting Linux to our detriment, *not* to our benefit
19:14 < ananke> Sonolin: take it on twitter, perhaps you'll find appropriate audience there
19:14 < Sonolin> lol
19:14 < dgurney> do you need some foil? your hat seems to have some holes
19:14 < jelly> astronavt: honestly back when I had to, I used cygwin sshd and rsync and it worked just fine.  Just don't use workloads that fork() a lot, like shell scripts
19:14 < Sonolin> mrush if you care watch the video, it goes into more detail
19:14 < jim> ananke, and, there is absolutely no need for namecalling (like imbecile)
19:14 < astronavt> what have i started
19:15 < mouses> o__0
19:15 < mouses> yes yes Sonolin microsoft bad we know
19:16 < Sonolin> ok good, just trying to speak up, since it seems most linux kids these days are in the "all praise Microsoft" stage
19:16 < jim> astronavt, just relax, if everyone (including ananke and Sonolin) would relax and take a breath, the channel will cool
19:16 < Sonolin> I mean, come on, years ago ##linux was filled with talk like this
19:16 < ananke> jim: indeed. his language and behavior illustrate that sufficiently, I shouldn't have to point that out
19:17 < Sonolin> ananke he's talking to you too ;)
19:17 < Sonolin> selective hearing much?
19:17 < jim> ananke, the way you did it is hostile, something we do not need
19:17  * astronavt backs slowly away
19:17 < ananke> jim: right, we need more 'not-linux' bashing. that fosters the community.
19:17 < jim> Sonolin, relax. comments like that just starts it again
19:18 < jim> (as you can see)
19:18 < Sonolin> hey I'm relaxed, no more swearing from me
19:18 < mouses> ananke: the only way to win on this one is not the play - don't feed trolls :)
19:18 < Sonolin> just trying to poke him since he obviously has a reading issue
19:18 < mouses> not to*
19:18 < jim> it's the poking that keeps it going :)
19:18 < ananke> mouses: indeed. I stopped engaging it a few mins ago.
19:20  * TechSmurf giggles... same old linux community :)
19:20 < Sonolin> :)
19:20 < Sonolin> I hope so
19:21 < mrush> Sonolin: what video
19:21 < TechSmurf> If we all agreed it'd be boring
19:21 < Sonolin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLAIMB7whdc
19:22 < mrush> Sanderski: i'm not clicking the link, what is it
19:22 < mrush> s/Sanderski/Sonolin
19:22 < mrush> sorry Sanderski
19:22 < mrush> am i being rick rolled
19:22 < Sonolin> from Lunduke from the Linux Sucks show, its an entertaining & informative video
19:22 < Sonolin> not rick astley ;)
19:23 < mrush> :)
19:23 < TechSmurf> mrush: "Earlier today (March 10th, 2018), Microsoft delivered the headlining keynote of the Southern California Linux Expo -- one of the largest Linux and Free Software conferences in the world. I repeat: Microsoft. Headlined. A Linux Festival. It was confusing to many. And Microsoft did not disappoint... they managed to say some distinctly anti-Open Source things in their 1 hour on stage."
19:24 < mrush> TechSmurf: thanks for the summary
19:24  * TechSmurf shrugs. just copied description from video
19:24  * mrush goes to the smoking patio to cry
19:24  * Sonolin hugs mrush
19:25  * mrush pats Sonoloin's back 
19:25 < Sonolin> (assuming that doesn't violate any laws in your area)
19:25 < TechSmurf> I mean, yeah, MS obviously still hates linux.. but they've recognized it can't be ignored, at least.
19:25 < mrush> haha
19:25 < Sonolin> :)
19:25 < Sonolin> yea I mean VStudio is *ok* I guess
19:25 < Dagmar> "It's high time we embraced them so we can ruin things properly."
19:26 < TechSmurf> I'll let yall know how Sql server 2017 works out on ubuntu...
19:26 < Sonolin> lol
19:26 < bls> ...meanwhile the rest of us focus on building things and solving problems instead of worrying about what some company we have no business with is doing
19:26 < Sonolin> hey its my break time :P
19:26  * TechSmurf nods to bls
19:26 < morf> ms is no hating linux, they are abusing it
19:26 < Sonolin> I'm sure IRC isn't necessary to all of our work ;)
19:27 < morf> not*
19:27 < TechSmurf> Sonolin: blasphemer.
19:27 < Sonolin> vivivi
19:27 < mrush> industry conferences are marketing bloat anyway
19:28 < TechSmurf> I'd be stuck running win10 on this desktop whether WSL was a thing or not.. but now I can play xbill on this win10 box!
19:29 < mrush> i give it two years, we'll be popping calc.exe on ununtu
19:29 < TechSmurf> speedcrunch
19:29 < mrush> s/un/ub/
19:30 < TechSmurf> oh, speedcrunch is already linux. nvm
19:30 < mrush> ops are asleep, i didnt get banned for a typo
19:40 < jim> mrush, and often, you won't be.
19:40 < jim> mrush, it's only when it escalates that it becomes a problem
19:40 < ayecee> mostly
19:41 < iceb0x_> like, when you make more than 1 typo in a sentence? :O
19:41 < jim> iceb0x_, no, when a fight ensues, and it starts getting worse
19:42 < hexnewbie> mrush: I'm already popping calc.exe (3.1 flavour) on Debian
19:42 < jim> but thankfully that doesn't happen too often
19:46 < mrush> jim, ayecee, k
19:46 < mrush> hexnewbie: ha, running 3.1 in wine?
19:47 < Sonolin> did somebody get banned for a typo? I must be missing something >.>
19:47 < hexnewbie> mrush: Well, it won't (you need DOSBox for that; or VirtualBox). But some programs (CLOCK, CALC) will run directly from your dosbox directory. Others (WRITE) won't.
19:47 < bls> Sonolin: no, we've got someone strong with hyberbole
19:48 < Sonolin> well it is IRC after all ;)
19:48 < mrush> Sonolin: yes, hang around for a few days and it will happen
19:49 < mrush> because it's a channel rule that you have to use correct spelling
19:49 < Sonolin> oh, I didn't know that
19:49 < iceb0x_> is it?
19:49 < Sonolin> should probably read the rules...
19:49 < iceb0x_> where can I read the rules?
19:49 < bls> iceb0x_: read the topic
19:49 < mrush> it keeps the k1dd13s out
19:49 < hexnewbie> mrush: Clock is nice, actually. I do use xclock for timing things (somewhat more convenient than gnome-clocks or ktimer if you're away from the computer). If there weren't some bugs in 3.1's clock.exe (namely it makes everything small cause the res is huge) I'd prefer it over xclock
19:50 < jim> we have a website, it;'s listed in the topic'
19:50 < Sonolin> ah looks like this is the link: https://freenode.linux.community/channel-rules/
19:50 < hexnewbie> mrush: Er, ‘wine clock’ (Wine's own implementation) is nicer still.
19:51 < jim> mrush, I'm seeing a problem just being born, please don't let it get out of control
19:51 < mrush> hexnewbie: :)
19:51 < Sonolin> weird, scrollbar is broken on that website...
19:51 < Sonolin> good old javascript!
19:51 < Sonolin> I think this is the rule that was referred to: "English only. English does not include SMS-style abbreviations as these are hard for non-native speakers to follow."
19:52 < jim> right
19:53 < mrush> Sonolin: yeah that's the one
19:53 < jim> it was not seen as a typo, it's a habit. I normally give chances and reminders for that
19:53 < bls> Sonolin: and it's a curious thing that the people that have an issue with also tend to be argumentative, insulting, and incapable of staying on topic, so it ends up acting as a filter on problem users
19:54 < Sonolin> Yea, it sort of makes sense, since the purpose is to help those with English as a second language.
19:54 < jim> mrush, as bls says, in some cases the real problem is behind what starts appearing initially
19:54 < Sonolin> I guess I should try harder to form complete sentances here :P
19:55 < Sonolin> .
19:55 < jim> Sonolin, well at least that will help you to get better responses when you ask questions
19:56 < jim> and, it will also help when you're trying to help someone else
19:57 < CrazyTux> which distro is better suited for long term deployment as a desktop os for office use? Mint or Mageia?
19:58 < domhnall> CrazyTux: anything not a rolling-release.
19:58 < jim> one with good package management and a fairly comple set of packages in the package archive
19:58 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Ubuntu
19:59 < CrazyTux> ok. Which one between those two is better suited?
19:59 < bls> both, neither
19:59 < CrazyTux>  Mint is Ubuntu. Isn't it?
19:59 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Mint is not Ubuntu.
19:59 < jim> I don't know mageia
20:00 < CrazyTux> Mint= Ubuntu with Cinnamon DE and more OOTB experience.
20:00 < CrazyTux> is it not?
20:00 < mutante> CrazyTux: the one that has the largest IRC channel.. one of the big mainstream distros, not something exotic
20:00 < Sonolin> CrazyTux: anything Ubuntu (or Debian) based would be a wise choice. Mint is a decent choice, as are things like Elementary OS and Trisquel.
20:00 < CrazyTux> ok
20:00 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Mint's original intention was to replace the Unity/GNOME Shell, but their Cinnamon and MATE are now in Ubuntu (correct me if I'm wrong), and they are a separate distros with some oopsies around security that would make me prefer a more major one.
20:01 < Sonolin> Good point, hexnewbie. Xubuntu is my preferred Ubuntu distro, since it is very lightweight.
20:01 < mutante> you can install the window manager you like on any distro, for some reason people seem to think it needs a separate distro each time
20:01 < CrazyTux> hexnewbie, is there a Ubuntu with Cinnamon?
20:01 < Desetude>  Whenever I boot archlinux, I get 'A start job is running for sys-subsystem-net-devices-enp0s25.servic.device' (yes, servic) which times out, wasting me 1m30s every boot
20:02 < CrazyTux> btw, how about Zorin OS?
20:02 < jim> CrazyTux, by this time, you must have your own opinions to inform your original question :)
20:02 < badsekter> desetude it is dhcp
20:02 < Sonolin> Zorin looks like Windows 7 if that is your thing.
20:02 < Desetude> badsekter: how do I fix it?
20:02 < Sonolin> Really, just choose any of them that have a good package manager (apt is very reliable), and that you like the look-and-feel of.
20:02 < mutante> CrazyTux: just run Debian stable and enjoy having actual support by a large community
20:02 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: Mageia is a decent continuation of Mandrake/Mandriva which I used to like, but it's also not the most popular thing on the block, which *may* mean less support or less manpower to maintain security. But I heard good things about it, so maybe my concerns are unfounded.
20:03 < hexnewbie> CrazyTux: https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/cinnamon
20:03 < badsekter> desetude just set up a static ip, arch wiki explains
20:03 < Sonolin> Or, just install gentoo ;)
20:03 < Sonolin> (that's for desetude)
20:04 < Sonolin> I've had DHCP running from day 1 with zero issues - just saying.
20:04 < CrazyTux> jim, as far as using a distro as an end user, for personal use, I can have my opinions and recommendations. But, for office use, on multiple desktops and multiple locations I am not sure.
20:04 < Desetude> badsekter: that seems like it just tries to avoid the problem instead of fixing it
20:04 < CrazyTux> hexnewbie, great.
20:05 < badsekter> sonolin, there 2 or 3 ways to get ip from dhcp, one of them has problems
20:05 < badsekter> desetude again arch wiki on network setup
20:05 < jim> CrazyTux, ok, what brings up the question about desktops for office use?
20:06 < Desetude> badsekter: I've looked there but that doesnt help
20:06 < CrazyTux> ok. Let me try Ubuntu with Cinnamon.
20:06 < jim> badsekter, I run my own dhcp server, and it serves my two nets...
20:06 < jim> works great :)
20:07 < candidat> have you ever been hacked because of dhcp ?
20:07 < badsekter> desetude you need to change method, arch wiki explains each, so go find which you uding snd try another
20:08 < jim> badsekter, your left hand is one key too far to the right :)
20:08 < badsekter> jim, tablet bro
20:08 < Sonolin> candidat: what do you mean by that? Are you saying DHCP is insecure?
20:08 < CrazyTux> but, what is the difference between Ubuntu with Cinnamon and Mint Cinnamon?
20:08 < notmike> Has you ever seen a Merkel tree?
20:09 < jim> badsekter, how do you input chars into it?
20:09 < jim> what's a merkel tree?
20:09 < badsekter> jim, it has a keyboard on touch screen
20:10 < jim> oh, ok, so your left hand is a little too far right :)
20:10 < gordonthegopher> with all the fuss around snaps and Ubuntu's lukewarm response, where is the best refuge for a Ubuntu user looking to switch to something LTS?
20:10 < jim> or it was
20:10 < badsekter> jim, single finger typing
20:10 < jim> oh ok
20:10 < mutante> CrazyTux: Ubuntu's website wasn't hacked and the download replaced with a version containing malware
20:11 < Desetude> badsekter: well it seems to work I just need to manually ip link set enp0s25 up and systemctl start dhcpcd to get internet working every boot. Which I believe is just bad setup by myself
20:11 < badsekter> desetude i had the same problem i just ditched dhcp and set up static ip, just saying
20:11 < CrazyTux> mutante, but that issue has been hyped. Don't you think so? are there real security concerns associated with Mint?
20:11 < triceratux> yep ubuntu makes sure all that malware is confined to the snap store
20:12 < mutante> CrazyTux: yea, it adds propietary software and fewer people looking at something isnt great for security. also blacklisting security patches from Debian
20:12 < CrazyTux> mutante, please elaborate.
20:13 < mutante> CrazyTux: use something that is mainstream, one of the large ones
20:13 < Desetude> well my internet worked completely fine on my usb chroot install whatever it's called
20:13 < CrazyTux> blacklisting security patches from Debian?
20:13 < Desetude> so I don't think it's any sort of hardware incompatibility
20:14 < Sonolin> CrazyTux you could do far worse than sticking with Ubuntu or Debian
20:14 < mutante> CrazyTux: "After the attack Linux Mint was severely criticized as being a distribution that, unlike many others at the time, "just worked" and became popular with non-technical users, but at the expense of security, with some security updates to the underlying Ubuntu or Debian blacklisted from running due to compatibility issues.[18][19]"
20:14 < Sonolin> Debian -> more stable, Ubuntu -> newer packages
20:14 < badsekter> desetude, try another dynamic ip method from arch wiki neywork page, there like 3 of them
20:14 < Sonolin> Well, most of the time, anyway.
20:14 < CrazyTux> ok
20:15 < triceratux> https://www.infoworld.com/article/3036600/linux/is-linux-mint-a-crude-hack-of-existing-debian-based-distributions.html
20:15 < jim> Sonolin, I would agree with that comparison... ever compared execution speed?
20:15 < Sonolin> Hmm, no I haven't.
20:15 < mutante> CrazyTux: why not just the original real deal that the other stuff is all based on anyways
20:15 < jim> I did once, and was pretty shocked
20:15 < CrazyTux> mutante, I am using Ubuntu Mate 18.04 on my personal laptop.
20:16 < Sonolin> jim which one is faster?
20:16 < jim> debian, in many cases by a factor of 2
20:16 < ayecee> depends how high you drop them from
20:16 < mutante> or .. it depends on the version you isntall for both of them and Ubuntu copies Debian as well
20:17 < jim> but I haven't checked lately
20:17 < triceratux> CrazyTux: im running voyager 18.04. its lts based with xfce & vlc. its almost an exact mix between what mint & mageia once were. but its uptodate & seems technically sound, even for large numbers of enterprise level workstations
20:17 < Sonolin> Ah, nice. I thought about that first, since it is pretty stripped down OotB.
20:17 < ikonia> not another CrazyTux "which distro is best" question
20:17 < ikonia> how many times do we go through this loop
20:17 < Sonolin> s/OotB/out of the box/
20:18 < jim> thanks for that
20:18 < mutante> Debian isn't "stripped down", it depends what you select during install. it has more packages than the others
20:18 < Sonolin> Right, which is why I said "out of the box" (i.e. assuming minimal customization).
20:18 < jim> what I also found, is that it installed faster, and downloaded packages faster
20:18 < Sonolin> Yea, I love Debian. I just prefer rolling-release distros myself.
20:19 < Sonolin> Never had the guts to try testing ;)
20:19 < mutante> i doubt that download speed depends on distro choice
20:19 < CrazyTux> Sonolin, but, Debian is a fixed release distro.
20:19 < Sonolin> It could depend on the underlying software, though, mutante.
20:19 < ikonia> CrazyTux: why don't you just use what you've currently got
20:19 < mutante> Sonolin: which everybody copies from Debian ...
20:19 < gordonthegopher> Is there a realistic LTS alternative not Debian/Ubuntu or based on either of those?
20:20 < ikonia> every week it's the same question "what is the best distro for a long term deployment for a noob user"
20:20 < ikonia> it's the same over and over and over and over
20:20 < ikonia> just use what you've got
20:20 < noodlepie> Sonolin, you tried Gentoo? Its very simple and neatly configires! Good for fast machines as you build all the packages, optimized, for your own machines (and potentially machines on your netowrk)
20:20 < gordonthegopher> (For home users, with a strong OOTB experience)
20:20  * noodlepie likes Gentoo. Debian for slower computers
20:20 < Sonolin> CrazyTux right, that was what I was saying. I prefer rolling-release style distros over something like Debian/Ubuntu. But I totally see the value to them, since my last Ubuntu install was rock-hard stable for a few years.
20:20 < Sonolin> noodlepie: I'm running Gentoo now ;)
20:20 < CrazyTux> Sonolin, ok
20:20 < mutante> what ikonia said.. always the same .. and in the end you could just install the packages you want and that would change way more
20:20 < CrazyTux> ikonia, ok
20:20 < jim> and having said that it downloads faster, I'll have to say that my debian package mirror is on a campus which is extremely well connected
20:21 < ikonia> CrazyTux: you say "ok" every week
20:21 < mutante> well, the mirror location, that makes sense, yes
20:21 < ikonia> and each week come back with the same question
20:21 < ikonia> seriously - what is the problem here ? why can you not "use a distro" ?
20:21 < jim> ikonia, so does a forth interpreter :)
20:21 < bls> ikonia: what's the best distro for computer_usages[random()], distros[random()] or distros[random()]?
20:21 < ikonia> what makes you keep coming back and keep asking the same question, is there something thats genuinly unclear/in doubt for you ?
20:22 < Sonolin> CrazyTux just buy a set of CDs from a local store, and spend a weekend burning & trying distros. Doesn't take too much time to find out what you like.
20:22 < ikonia> Sonolin: this has been going on for 12 months
20:22 < Sonolin> Oh, I see.
20:22 < ikonia> the "spend the weekend" approach was burnt 51 weeks ago
20:22 < mutante> "i dont need anything special. just a browser, minimal requirements.  oh.. just that one thing. i also need to do HD video rendering on the site, but not much"
20:22 < CrazyTux> ikonia, I have been using Ubuntu LTS personally. But, it freezes frequently.
20:22 < bls> Sonolin: some people make a hobby out of switching distros, this user has made a hobby out of asking us about switching distros
20:22 < jim> Sonolin, CrazyTux has been doing this research for at least a year now
20:23 < ikonia> CrazyTux: you've said "it freezes" about other distros
20:23 < mutante> freezing = hardware issue , i bet
20:23 < CrazyTux> 18.04 doesn't freeze as often as 16.04 used to be. But, I have to wait and see.
20:23 < mutante> replace RAM?
20:23 < ikonia> CrazyTux: so instead of asking "what distro is best" - your question is "I constantly get hardware lock ups on my laptop"
20:23 < Sonolin> ^^
20:23 < jim> well, check ram
20:23 < CrazyTux> ikonia, no. Manjaro has been fine. Even Mageia was.
20:24 < ikonia> CrazyTux: rather than randomly swapping distros every 5 minutes - fix the problem
20:24 < mutante> which distro is best to check RAM for errors?
20:24 < ikonia> CrazyTux: use that then use mutante
20:24 < ikonia> manjaro -
20:24 < ikonia> use what works for YOU
20:24 < ikonia> good lord, it's the same script every week
20:24 < Sonolin> Good old ##linux ;)
20:24 < jim> mutante, there's memtest86 that boots like a kernel
20:24 < mawk> I have 3 public IPs, now
20:24 < CrazyTux> ikonia, ok. But, my question was about long term deployment for office use.
20:24 < mawk> what can I do with the extra 2 ?
20:25 < ikonia> CrazyTux: so ?
20:25 < ikonia> CrazyTux: you've used 10+ distros by now, what works for YOU
20:25 < mutante> CrazyTux: "long term" see those words there
20:25 < mutante> CrazyTux: LTS = long term support
20:25 < gordonthegopher> Is this channel just a personal support forum so CrazyTux can find a distro?
20:25 < ikonia> right, experience it long term
20:25 < ikonia> rather than 2 hours
20:25 < ikonia> and ask again
20:25 < ikonia> gordonthegopher: it feels that way
20:25 < bls> gordonthegopher: it often feels that way
20:25 < ikonia> it's basically interactive distro watch
20:26 < gordonthegopher> Hahaha
20:26 < ikonia> CrazyTux: use Windows
20:26 < ikonia> seriously
20:26 < ikonia> pay $80 for a windows license and use it
20:26 < ikonia> you'll have less problems
20:26 < ikonia> and it removes this constant debate
20:26 < jim> gordonthegopher not exclusively :)
20:26 < mutante> Linspire
20:26 < gordonthegopher> So, does anyone have any thought on snaps? Ubuntu's response was a bit crappy
20:26 < ikonia> what is the best distro for CrazyTux long term for office use, Windows 10
20:26 < Sonolin> Pay me $500 and I'll install it on your system for you. I'll even remove all CD drives & USB ports so you don't get distro-itus again.
20:26 < mutante> yea, "why do i need it when i have APT"
20:26 < gordonthegopher> But Canonical seem to be pushing them very hard
20:27 < bls> gordonthegopher: new iteration of a bad solution to an old problem that can be solved in better ways
20:27 < ikonia> gordonthegopher: I'm not sold by snaps
20:27 < gordonthegopher> Some of my most frequently used packages seem to be trying to migrate to snap/appimage/flatpak
20:27 < ikonia> I find the model weak, and the implementation even weaker
20:27 < Dabeer> krb noob question:  smbclient -W DOMAIN.COM works but smbclient -W DOMAIN doesn't
20:27 < gordonthegopher> (That's if I stick to Ubuntu LTS)
20:27 < ikonia> managing packages with different context of LTS / feature release for me is the answer
20:28 < Dabeer> is there a way to set it up to make it work?  It works on one VM but not another and I can't locate the difference except for the one that works is CentOS 7.3, the one that doesn't is 7.4
20:28 < Sonolin> ikonia: I haven't been impressed by any of these "do away with package management" solutions. They all seem to package too much inside the resulting binary.
20:28 < gordonthegopher> I've been happily using Ubuntu Mate 16.04 and widely recommending it to others, and it has been super stable for me
20:28 < ikonia> Sonolin: it's basically mini-chroots
20:28 < Sonolin> There is one, I think its called AppImage, that looked interesting.
20:28 < bls> yeah, the BSD model seems like it'd suit desktop users a lot better than locking down everything or nothing
20:28 < ikonia> that isn't a good model
20:28 < Elec_A> Hi, I have a question, What's the diffence between ttyS0 and ttyUSB0 ?
20:28 < Sonolin> Unfortunately, it requires the distro makers to adopt it, and of course they would rather create their own solution...
20:29 < Elec_A> I have found thi : https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/307390/what-is-the-difference-between-ttys0-ttyusb0-and-ttyama0-in-linux but I still don't understand
20:29 < gordonthegopher> I can't seem to find something as comparably easy to get going as a basic Ubuntu Mate install
20:29 < gordonthegopher> Debian is great but needs massively ironing out post install
20:29 < Sonolin> gordonthegopher: slackware?
20:29 < Sonolin> Assuming you don't need any other software ;)
20:29 < bls> designate a certain cet of packages as the base OS, lock them down and put them on a release cadence. allow anything not part of that core to roll
20:29 < mutante> Elec_A: S0 = serial port  USB = USB   tty = teletypewriter
20:29 < gordonthegopher> And Fedora doesn't seem to have an LTS model
20:30 < ikonia> gordonthegopher: no, and it's good that it doesn't hide it
20:30 < m712> what is /usr/$LIB/some-lib.so supposed to do when used with LD_AUDIT?
20:30 < Elec_A> mutante: so they are not connected to each other? I mean I thought ttys0 and ttyUSB0 are connected somhow.
20:30 < m712> it tells me "ERROR: ld.so: object '/usr/$LIB/liblsi-intercept.so' cannot be loaded as audit interface: cannot open shared object file; ignored."
20:30 < gordonthegopher> I tried Solus in a VM earlier and was quite impressed, but I can't help feeling in the long run it might bork itself, especially for basic home users
20:31 < Elec_A> mutante: I say that because when I connect te cable, both will appear and when I disconnect the cable, both will disappear
20:31 < mutante> Elec_A: S is originally this cable  https://i.stack.imgur.com/7g1Ya.jpg
20:31 < gordonthegopher> I quite like that I have been able to install 16.04 and it has looked after itself pretty well for two years on multiple machines
20:31 < mutante> Elec_A: that is probably because the USB cable "emulates" a serial connection to have backwards compatibility.is my guess
20:31 < CrazyTux> how can we optimize the laptop battery life on linux distros? is TLP the only option?
20:31 < gordonthegopher> How reliable is Fedup?
20:31 < ikonia> gordonthegopher: pretty solid now
20:32 < Elec_A> mutante: Exactly! this is aUSB to Serial converter
20:32 < gordonthegopher> How about for granny?
20:32 < mutante> Elec_A: well, that explains why they both show up. it's a USB connection but it also behaves like serial
20:32 < Elec_A> mutante: so when I want to communicate with the port, should I use S0 or USB0 ?
20:32 < ikonia> gordonthegopher: no personal experience
20:33 < gordonthegopher> It's easy to support a three year LTS, you install and it stays fairly solid for two years and you get a year to see how it pans out before you need to upgrade
20:33 < Elec_A> mutante: and does it mean that when you connect a usb cable, a TTYUSB# will defintely appear?
20:33 < Desetude> How do I get dhclient to autostart each boot?
20:33 < ikonia> Desetude: wjat dostrp ?
20:33 < bls> Desetude: you'll need to ask the arch channel
20:33 < Mavericks> what's 0765 ? permission level
20:33 < mutante> Elec_A: it may depend on what is talking to it. if it's older software maybe the S0 is the better bet. or they would just work both. easiest to just try it
20:33 < Mavericks> i know it's a noob q
20:33 < ikonia> oops, what distro
20:34 < Desetude> bls: ok
20:34 < mutante> Elec_A: no, just a random USB cable that isnt a "USB to serial adapter" i dont think would get you a "TTYUSB"
20:34 < mutante> not very sure though
20:34 < bls> Desetude: because it's highly dependent on which set of instructions you followed and which customization choices you made
20:34 < Elec_A> mutante: that's interesting. but what is the theory or science behind it? why would S0 would work better ?
20:34 < Elec_A> for older device  I mean.
20:34 < mutante> Elec_A: because it's the older standard. Serial is a lot older than USB
20:35 < mutante> Elec_A: you would use that kind of cable to connect devices way before USB even existed
20:35 < Dagmar> "common as dirt"
20:36 < Elec_A> mutante: Oh wait, so when ttyS0 and ttyUSB0 are completely different "buffers" and when you send data to ttyUSB it doesn't go through ttyS. right?
20:36 < Dagmar> You are letting the naming confuse you
20:36 < Dagmar> Just because they both have "tty" in the name doesn't mean they have anything to do with one another
20:37 < Dagmar> ttyUSB is just a name for USB serial interfaces that behave like a serial port
20:37 < jim> Elec_A, right, so it's a driver for usb, and it's a physical usb-to-serial adapter
20:38 < Dagmar> ttyS is the name of actual serial ports that are going through a UART of some kind
20:38 < Dagmar> There's none of this one of them going through the other
20:38 < kurahaupo> jim: not necessarily; sometimes the UART isn't really there, it's talking to a device such as a router as if it were over a serial
20:39 < Dagmar> THe UART is almost always there if it's a 9-pin connection
20:39 < Elec_A> jim: Dagmar Thank you so much for your information, but still I fell I'm lost. if ttyUSB is just a name for USB serial interface, ttyS0 should be same as ttyUSB0, because both are USB-Serial 0
20:39 < Dagmar> It might be a crap UART with next to no buffer that maxes out at 9600 baud but it's there
20:39 < CuriousMind> Hi. My question is what was the first linux package manager ever?
20:39 < kurahaupo> Tar
20:39 < Dagmar> Elec_A: No it's not
20:40 < kurahaupo> Elec_A: ttyS0 isn't over usb
20:40 < Dagmar> Elec_A: A ttyUSB device appearing just means youv'e got a USB connected serial adapter, same as if you had a USB ethernet dongle
20:41 < CuriousMind> What I got from the web was something about linux package managers existing since the 80s. And the one that was existing in the 80s was 'swmgr'.  However, I want to know what the first one ever created
20:41 < Elec_A> kurahaupo: it isn't? then what it is over then ?
20:41 < Dagmar> CuriousMind: You could go download SLS and find out
20:41 < Dagmar> Elec_A: It's a plain 9-pin serial port
20:41 < Dagmar> The sort of thing that used to be built into every "jesus" card
20:42 < kurahaupo> Elec_A: it's an actual serial UART, though it may not have a DB9 on the outside of the case
20:42 < Dagmar> Yeah it might have a DB-25 connector if you're really living your life wrong
20:42 < Elec_A> Dagmar: Okay. so when I want to send data to my device with known baudrate and parity, I put a ft232 on it. when I connect USB cable to the computer, I see two ports appear, ttyUSB0 and ttyS0. which one I should use?
20:42 < Dagmar> Either
20:43 < Elec_A> kurahaupo: that's really really interesting.
20:43 < Elec_A> Dagmar: either?
20:43 < Elec_A> Dagmar: so both are the SAME ! :D
20:43 < kurahaupo> Does ttyS0 appear, or is it already there?
20:43 < Elec_A> kurahaupo: it appears.
20:43 < mutante> CuriousMind: https://www.reddit.com/r/unix/comments/6ur7c9/which_unix_had_the_first_package_manager/
20:43 < Dagmar> Both those /dev names are going to route their data to the same device, although you may have some issues using ioctls to set the higher baud rates on the ttyS0 device, _maybe_
20:43 < kurahaupo> Hmm, your udev config must be interesting
20:44 < Dagmar> s/interesting/a little messed/
20:44 < CuriousMind> mutante: That's where I got that 'swmgr' was a linux package manager from the 80s lol...
20:44 < Elec_A> Dagmar: Got it, so I will go with ttyUSB0.
20:45 < Dagmar> CuriousMind: Uh no.  90's.
20:45 < CuriousMind> Dagmar: Package managers didn't exist in the 80s?
20:45 < Dagmar> CuriousMind: Pro-tip, Linux had it's first kernel in 1991.  _Just_ a kernel.  No userspace.
20:45 < mutante> CuriousMind: this source says "PMS" https://eerielinux.wordpress.com/2017/08/15/the-history-of-nix-package-management/
20:46 < Dagmar> So, no distribution, no package manager needed
20:46 < toothe> Anyone know how to set a warning banner when you first login to a computer?
20:46 < mutante> "PMS (short for “package management system”) is generally regarded to be the first (albeit primitive) package manager. Version 1.0 was ready in mid 1994 and used on the Bogus Linux distribution."
20:46 < Dagmar> If you want to go back into Unix-space, ugly words like 'cpio' start appearing
20:46 < toothe> have a warning banner?
20:46 < toothe> so, the equivalent of /etc/issue, but for gdm.
20:47 < kurahaupo> toothe: /etc/something
20:47 < CuriousMind> mutante: I see, ok thanks
20:47 < Dagmar> mutante: That's a rather bizarre definition
20:47 < kurahaupo> Dagmar: cpio was beautiful!
20:47 < CuriousMind> Dagmar: I see, ok thanks
20:48 < toothe> kurahaupo: ahh, of course!
20:53 < toothe> Grr! setting this gsetting value isn't working.
20:53 < toothe> gconf value.
20:53 < noodlepie> Linux is like fresh new and free Porsche/Lamborghini engine for your car every day. You still have to pay for gas / electricity though.
20:53 < Sonolin> noodlepie kinda like a new AE86 every day, IMO ;)
20:54 < Sonolin> eh, actually, now that I think of it - yours works better
20:54 < bls> I'd be concerned if I had to replace my car's engine every day
20:55 < Sonolin> that's just regular maintenance for a Porsche/Lamborghini
20:55 < Dagmar> I'd be more concerned if it repeatedly _grew back_ every day
20:55 < Dagmar> Like, *lots* more concerned
20:55 < seven-eleven> just found out openvz isn't supposed to use swap file, does the same apply to kvm?
20:55 < ananke> it's like free cancer!
20:56 < Dagmar> seven-eleven: You're going to have to go into a bit more detail than that
20:56 < Dagmar> What do you mean by "isn't supposed to use swap file"?
20:57 < Dagmar> If, for example, you're talking about a virtual machine not having any swap allocated for itself, that's just as unhelpful as a physical machine not having any swap
20:57 < Dagmar> You _want_ _some_ swap.
20:57 < Sonolin> anybody ever use vlock?
20:57 < Sonolin> I'm wondering if it is worth the compile (looking for something to just lock out my VTY)
20:58 < Dagmar> Sonolin: You can always just logout of them
20:58 < noodlepie> I'm looking forward to HURD uptake. Having a user filesystem moubt service does some wonderful things for stuff like E-Language network promises.
20:58 < Dagmar> Sonolin: ...or turn all but one of them off even
20:58 < Sonolin> true, but then I loose all my running processes
20:58 < seven-eleven> Dagmar, hm, seems swap file works on openvz, but most vps provider disable it
20:59 < bls> you don't use tmux/screen?
20:59 < noodlepie> And you can mount an ftp server to something in your home folder
20:59 < hexnewbie> No swap affects kernel overcommit calculations in a bad way, so it's better to have swap. But I had issues with KVM that had me disable it  (with side-effects, so it's better to have it than not).
20:59 < Sonolin> I mean, I could use tmux/screen but most of the time I don't spawn processes inside a tmux pane
20:59 < seven-eleven> now im on a kvm vps and creating a swap file with mkswap doesn't work
20:59 < hexnewbie> seven-eleven: ‘doesn't work’?
20:59 < Dagmar> seven-eleven: Most vps providers are not providing "robust" setups
20:59 < noodlepie> Linux needs root for all this, but the HURD Mach interfaces let uses do it with simple constructs.
20:59 < Dagmar> noodlepie: That's nice.  This isn't HURD.
20:59 < Sonolin> I guess I should just try to force myself to use tmux more...
20:59 < Dagmar> seven-eleven: Create a file first, then run mkswap on it
21:00 < hexnewbie> seven-eleven: You have a virtual machine. You do inside what would you do on an actual computer.
21:00 < noodlepie> I know I know, just voicing an opinion
21:00 < seven-eleven> hexnewbie, i think they can disable creating a swapfile through the hyporvisor
21:00 < bls> I attach / launch tmux first thing on logging in to something. keeps everything in one place across connections/disconnects
21:00 < noodlepie> Building 4.16.9-gentoo, ready for a reboot...
21:00 < noodlepie> :P
21:00 < Dagmar> seven-eleven: Doubtful
21:00 < hexnewbie> s/(would) (you)/$2 $1/
21:01 < seven-eleven> well its not being added after running swapon
21:01 < Dagmar> There's nothing magical about a swapfile that would even warrant someone coding such a control.  It's just another filesystem
21:01 < Sonolin> ...yea, I think tmux should suffice
21:01 < hexnewbie> seven-eleven: And how exactly would they achieve that?
21:01 < hexnewbie> seven-eleven: It sounds as impossible as the ‘hacking’ on CSI.
21:01 < Dagmar> seven-eleven: Did you actually make the file a _swap file_ with mkswap?
21:01 < seven-eleven> Dagmar, yes
21:02 < bls> because locking your VCs probably won't be resilient if you got magic sysreq enabled
21:02 < Dagmar> Then they've had to do something particularly insane with their kernel
21:02 < Dagmar> Find a VPS provider that is less ridiculously restrictive
21:02 < Dagmar> The kernel will use swap occasionally to do things like untangle the memory allocation maps
21:03 < Dagmar> If they've decided to eliminate the ability to have swap as a means to induce people to pay more money for larger RAM allocations, _go somewhere else_, seriously.
21:04 < seven-eleven> there's a fake_swap script for vps but it doesn't work either on my vps https://github.com/udinnet/fedora-day-to-day-shell-scripts/blob/master/openvz-vps-fake-swap.sh
21:04 < Dagmar> You can probably find a datacenter that will dangle a raspberry pi from an ethernet cable for you for less hassle and money
21:05 < Dagmar> Anyway, you need to clarify if you're talking about KVM or OpenVZ
21:05 < seven-eleven> KVM
21:05 < Dagmar> OpenVZ is containers, so having each container have swap doesn't even make sense
21:05 < seven-eleven> hostnamectl says im on a kvm
21:05 < Dagmar> KVM should in every way behave like a real, whole machine
21:06 < hexnewbie> ‘Doesn't work’ is not a cromulent description of a problem
21:07 < seven-eleven> oh noes
21:07 < seven-eleven> now i know why it failed
21:07 < seven-eleven> i was sourced to my virtualenv m(
21:08 < hexnewbie> That script failing is not a bad thing. Hacking meminfo output is some obscure thing for some very particular dirty job, not a general thing one should be doing.
21:09 < bls> and trying to bypass your ToS through ugly hackery isn't going to win you any favors when your hosting provider catches you
21:10 < hexnewbie> Plus, that doesn't look like valid bash. Unless it's some obscure bash syntax I don't recognise, it ought to always fail by saying it can unmount /dev/null and sed
21:11 < hexnewbie> Er, can't - it would be very weird if it could unmount /in/sed
21:14 < NGC3982> when i run apt-get update it only reads the repository and exits. what can i do to debug this?
21:15 < bls> what do you expect it to do?
21:16 < NGC3982> i do not know. my real issue is that i cannot know if somethings wrong or if there are no packages. it has been like this for a month and a half.
21:16 < hexnewbie> NGC3982: Are you coming from rpm/yum-based distro?
21:16 < NGC3982> ubuntu 16.04.
21:16 < bls> NGC3982: all update does is update the list of available packages
21:16 < hexnewbie> NGC3982: So you've always used apt-get? apt-get update simply fetches package lists
21:17 < NGC3982> yes, i have. for years? it fetches and updates my packages.
21:17 < NGC3982> or am i going crazy?
21:17 < ayecee> wouldn't rule it out
21:17 < bls> apt-get update has never done anything to packages for me
21:18 < ayecee> yum update fetches and updates packages
21:18 < hexnewbie> NGC3982: upgrade and/or dist-upgrade would upgrade packages (or full-upgrade for aptitude/apt)
21:18 < ayecee> apt-get update doesn't
21:18 < iceb0x_> you might be confusing it with apt-get upgrade NGC3982 ?
21:19 < Dagmar> As long as you can still ask the question: "Am I going mad?" there's a chance you haven't
21:19 < NGC3982> nope, im not confusing them. upon reading what you are writing and checking the manual, i have been using apt-get <command> faulty ever since i started using linux.
21:19 < NGC3982> cool.
21:19 < Dagmar> Crazy people are always convinced they're perfectly sane.
21:19 < ayecee> lies
21:19 < Dagmar> Drop 20 hits of LSD and say that
21:20 < ayecee> send 20 hits of acid and i'll give it a try
21:20 < NGC3982> so, keeping my machine well updated really requires apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade.
21:20 < Sonolin> just spit it out if it burns your tongue ;)
21:20 < hexnewbie> I've successfully self-diagnosed myself with 8-9 personality disorders and mental issues (I've read about 10).
21:20 < NGC3982> how can i not have realized this
21:20 < iceb0x_> yep
21:20 < ayecee> the mind fairly boggles
21:20 < Dagmar> hexnewbie: Where does 'hypochondria' appear in that list?
21:21 < bls> I skipped the self-diagnosis and went straight to self-medication
21:21 < hexnewbie> Dagmar: Of course it does ;)
21:21 < Dagmar> Heh
21:21 < triceratux> there was probably a stealth cronjob in earlier versions that kept it uptodate
21:21 < Dagmar> Geez you'd think someone would be making a tiny _cheap_ card one can attach temperature probes to
21:22 < NGC3982> rpi too big?
21:22 < Sonolin> makes one wonder how many people take LSD at work :P
21:22 < ayecee> microdosing at work is a new fad
21:22 < noodlepie> LSD is an eye opener
21:22 < Sonolin> oh, didn't know that
21:23 < noodlepie> The good shit lasts for hours
21:23 < Sonolin> I prefer meditation over drugs ;)
21:23 < Sonolin> similar results with less anxiety
21:23 < ayecee> por que no los dos
21:23 < NGC3982> all aboard the neck beard train.
21:24 < Sonolin> Choo Choo!
21:24 < ayecee> m'lady
21:24 < NGC3982> hexnewbie, bls, ayecee: thank you, btw. should have known this.
21:24 < Dagmar> NGC3982: I'm looking for something that can plug into a PCIe card or USB port, not to add a whole second machine for environmental monitoring
21:24 < Dagmar> NGC3982: I'm getting to the final stages of designing a half-rack
21:24 < ayecee> Dagmar: yeah, there's a curious lack of hardware for that kind of thing.
21:27 < NGC3982> Dagmar: i second that. i have been building with 18B20 for the pi, and i also want it to be small and nimble without its own machine.
21:27 < Dagmar> I'm getting the feeling I may need to just bite the bullet on that one and reserve a bit of space for a USB hub and use an RPi as an OOB interface as well as environmental monitoring
21:27 < Dagmar> It just raises the number of power supplies I need to stick in tehre
21:28 < NGC3982> OOB?
21:28 < kfrench> https://www.amazon.com/Jepeak-Thermometer-Temperature-Sensor-Accurate/dp/B009YRP906
21:28 < Dagmar> NGC3982: Out of band, like iLO interfaces
21:28 < NGC3982> oh.
21:29 < NGC3982> i just fetch it with ssh.
21:29 < Dagmar> kfrench: That would require not only a usb hub but USB extension cables, and since this is environmental monitoring and it matters, I'd need _humidity_ sensors as well
21:30 < Dabeer>  on CentOS 7.3, with krb5 1.14, I can do "smbclient -W DOMAIN" and it finds the KDC. On CentOS 7.4, with krb5 1.15, I have to do "smbclient -W DOMAIN.COM" to make it work. krb5.conf contains DOMAIN.COM in both cases.
21:30 < Dagmar> Like, if you buy an even mildly intelligent CDU, this is functionality you generally get for free and only involves thin cable leads
21:31 < NGC3982> Dagmar: im looking for similar stuff. something like hygro+thermo+cirkulation at 5V. ill let you know if i find something.
21:31 < Dabeer> any idea how to make the .com-less domain work on 7.4/krb5 1.15?
21:31 < Dagmar> Something's messed up elsewhere if you're forced to specify ".com" if that's not actually the domain
21:33 < Dagmar> Suffix search order stuff is not supposed to apply to workgroup names
21:33 < Dagmar> Like, Microsoft got burned when it was allowed
21:33 < Dagmar> There was rather a lot of mayhem that could be wreaked by misusing it's predilection to go looking up "workgroup.com"
21:33 < xamithan> fix your DNS
21:34 < Dabeer> so the .com is specified in krb5 so I'm pretty sure it is actually part of the domain....   but why would it resolve "DOMAIN" to "DOMAIN.COM" in krb5 1.14 but not in 1.15?
21:34 < Dabeer> the DNS settings are identical
21:34 < zapotah> netbios domain name
21:34 < Dagmar> Probably because of something jacked up in systemd's new resolver library
21:35 < zapotah> do they force you to use resolved now?
21:36 < Dagmar> Since krb5 is involved, keep in mind that sacrificing a goat may still be a viable option.
21:36 < Dagmar> ...and goats are pretty cheap.
21:37 < Dabeer> lol
21:37 < zapotah> a dove might suffice
21:38 < Desetude> What package contains the 'Monospace' font?
21:38 < Desetude> wc
21:39 < hexnewbie> Desetude: None. That's an alias for whatever's your default monospace font: fc-match monospace
21:39 < Desetude> hexnewbie: oohh that makes more sense thanks
21:39 < energizer> Is it possible to find out what my ip address was at a certain time, when a particular ssh connection occurred?
21:40 < ayecee> vague question is vague
21:40 < hexnewbie> energizer: Look for dhclient or dhcpcd logs in /var/log, and for old leases in the dhcp client leases files
21:40 < energizer> ayecee: how can i clarify?
21:41 < ayecee> i don't know. i don't understand what you're trying to do.
21:41 < hexnewbie> energizer: And grep for your *current* IP in the entirety of /var/log (as well as journalctl) to figure out what may have logged it, if it's not in dhcp files
21:41 < meyou> energizer, you want to know what IP you ssh'd from, or to?
21:42 < bls> energizer: what problem are you ultimately trying to solve? there may be a better solution than trying to figure out something that isn't normally tracked
21:46 < Acheron> has anyone heard of a Mint Beta out yet?
21:46 < energizer> An attacker sshed into my machine, recorded in wtmp and auth.log. I want to know if they took certain data files. My plan for assessing this is: (1) look at last-accessed timestamp `atime` on the files using `stat`, and (2) look at the network-level logs to see how much data was transferred outbound during the period of that connection.
21:46 < xamithan> mint beta,  is that a new candy ?
21:46 < Dan39> energizer: using stat? use find.
21:47 < kfrench> The attackers ip address should be recorded in /var/log/secure
21:47 < koala_man> energizer: is your fs mounted noatime?
21:47 < koala_man> I mean relatime?
21:48 < bls> why not just assume that yes, they took all your data and act from there?
21:48 < zapotah> as one should
21:48 < xamithan> Because that won't solve his homework question bls
21:48 < zapotah> hah
21:49 < energizer> koala_man: default on 16.04, so i think that means yes, but it hadnt been accessed in the previous 24h anyway.
21:49 < energizer> it's not homework.
21:50 < ayecee> that's exactly what someone who was doing homework would say
21:50 < ayecee> i'm onto you!
21:50 < energizer> If the logs weren't altered, does that plan make sense? Are there other ways I could go about this?
21:51 < bls> not sure what the plan is at this point
21:51 < bls> knowing an IP or if they accessed a file isn't really actionable
21:53 < ananke> bls: I'd say knowing what the exposure was is actionable
21:53 < zapotah> always assume everything was compromised
21:54 < ananke> zapotah: that's an ideal goal, but reality is often different
21:54 < energizer> My goal is to assess whether certain files were accessed. I have the attacker's IP and session timestamp. If the logs weren't altered, I think atime and the volume of data transferred outbound may provide useful information. Does that make sense? Are there other tools I might try?
21:54 < ananke> because having knowledge of what was certainly compromised, as opposed to what may have been compromised means that one can estabilish priorities
21:55 < zapotah> you should have priorities regardless
21:55 < ananke> zapotah: that's a meaningless slogan
21:55 < ananke> energizer: yes, that's a valid plan. sleuthkit has tools that can help finding said data, but even find & sort are very good starting points
21:56 < bls> finding the entry point is valid, yes. you'd take steps to seal that off. knowing if they looked at or copied something? not sure what you'd do with that
21:57 < ananke> energizer: in situations like this I like to sort the filesystem content by ctime, mtime and atime
21:57 < toothe> w00t w00t! Just tricked this CIS Benchmark tool to think that this Kali machine is Ubuntu
21:57 < toothe> and therefore it runs :)
21:58 < ananke> bls: because you would know whether a certain data was compromised, and then you could formulate a list and order of priorities: be it notifying affected customers, changing passwords/etc for other resources, etc
21:59 < bls> you'd not notify end users because of a files atime?
21:59 < bls> or change passwords
21:59 < ananke> bls: you'd notify users if there's a potential breach of PII or other sensitive data
22:00 < noodlepie> Linux needs root for all this, but the HURD Mach interfaces let uses do it with simple constructs.
22:00 < noodlepie> oops
22:01 < noodlepie> GNU HURD has user translators for things like transparent FTP and whatnot. Looks good! We should write a Zope translator to access the object database from your desktop!
22:06 < ayecee> we
22:35 < Truxx> Is there a good ebook reader running linux? At least 9"?
22:36 < ananke> Truxx: vendor supported linux, or just one capable of running linux?
22:36 < lupine> Truxx: apparently there is a linux firmware for some kobos
22:36 < lupine> I've not tried it though
22:37 < lupine> https://github.com/lgeek/okreader
22:40 < Truxx> ananke: Just one good hardware I can use with Linux - no matter if it's vendor supported
22:41 < ananke> Truxx: you don't need a device running linux to be supported by linux
22:41 < meyou> i think he wants to run linux on an ebook reader
22:41 < Truxx> That's what I was just trying to say
22:41 < meyou> not use an ebook reader that works with his linux PC
22:42 < Truxx> meyou: Yes
22:42 < lupine> okreader is where it's at
22:42 < ananke> nooks run android, you could try that. frankly, I'm not sure why you'd want to run linux on an ebook reader
22:42 < lupine> let me know if it works, I'm curious, but not brick-my-device curious
22:45 < Truxx> lupine: Thanks for the link, but those devices are too small
22:45 < lupine> Truxx: it's a good starting point to add support for a large-enough device
22:45 < lupine> capitalists won't build this for you
22:45 < lupine> they know
22:46 < Truxx> ananke: android is spyware - that's just one of the million reasons why someone might prefer linux on an ebook reader
22:47 < koala_man> android hasn't switched yet, it's still linux
22:47 < bls> and there are builds of android without all the bundled google stuff
22:48 < koala_man> maybe what you want is a different userland on top of linux. maybe.. GNU/Linux
22:48 < lupine> or, as I've recently taken to calling it, gnu plus linux
22:48 < lupine> is there a libre android build for a big ereader?
22:48 < lupine> or, indeed, any ereader
22:49 < Truxx> koala_man android=linux violated by g* - no, thank you :)
22:50 < bls> https://download.lineageos.org/deb
22:50 < Truxx> marmistrz Is pmOS very slow on an n900?
22:51 < koala_man> haha, I still have my n900 lying around somewhere
22:51 < koala_man> crazy device
22:51 < lupine> also FP open
22:51 < lupine> but yeah, n900 was awesome
22:51 < Truxx> Yeah, great phone
22:52 < koala_man> it was better than Android at the time, but Android quickly caught up
22:52 < lupine> well, nokia messed around with meego then tizen then that windows thingy
22:53 < lupine> maemo was fine. honestly. just fine.
22:54 < koala_man> the primary reason why I switched was because the calendar would stop syncing until I deleted and recreated the latest event
22:55 < tomreyn> also walking around a brick all day wasnt that attractive compared to todays' phones. but back then it was great.
22:55 < Truxx> MeeGo was great too on the N9 - they should have released the n950 too
22:56 < tomreyn> nokia 9000 and 9110 communicator also were great for their time, but i dont think they ran linux.
22:57 < koala_man> size wasn't a problem for me, but the lack of third party software was annoying. it was 50-50 plain X11 apps with desktop mouse interfaces and games clearly hacked together over a weekend
22:57 < bls> I'd read the UI toolkit was a disaster to work with as well
22:58 < koala_man> meanwhile, Android and iOS was rapidly getting better and better contents designed for mobile
22:59 < koala_man> but yeah, you were never helpless on N900 like you were on other devices at the time
22:59 < noodlepie> Linux kernel 4.16.9-gentoo stable here
23:00 < phinxy> When the linux console launches fbterm, the TERM=fbterm, but how can TERM=linux when fbterm closes?
23:01 < bls> ah, that was tizen, not maemo/meego
23:02 < koala_man> phinxy: environment variables are per process, not per system
23:04 < kurahaupo> phinxy: presumably you're back to the same shell you had before fbterm started? Environment variables are inherited by new processes, but otherwise changes do not propagate between processes
23:13 < Kevin`> how can I limit and/or recover from syslog filling the entire filesystem it resides on in problem situations?
23:13 < mawk> if I block git receive-pack for my remote git repository, users can't modify anything right ?
23:13 < dunpeal> Hi there. Can I create a user with a specified UID?
23:14 < mawk> I'm doing making an anonymous read-only access over ssh
23:14 < phil42>  if it is really a problem you can create a small partition for it
23:14 < mawk> of course dunpeal
23:14 < mawk> adduser --uid 42424242
23:14 < lopid> other uid's may be available
23:15 < xamithan> make another partition,  make syslog log to external server
23:15 < xamithan> Have a notification system that alerts you when full and fires off a cleanup script
23:16 < Kevin`> xamithan: i'm trying to stay within the realm of standard software if possible. i'd prefer not to write a custom monitoring/recovery script
23:16 < xamithan> Don't need to write one,  I'm sure there is plenty of plugins for whatever monitoring you currently have
23:17 < Kevin`> this is a small embedded system, no nms
23:17 < bls> Kevin`: no logrotate?
23:17 < mnemon> Kevin`: logrotate?
23:18 < bls> because that's pretty much the gold standard for keeping log files under control
23:18 < Kevin`> logrotate exist, but doesn't seem smart enough to recover from a filled disk
23:18 < bls> you shouldn't want recovery, you should be aiming for prevention
23:19 < dunpeal> mawk: can I reset a user's ID to a specific one after its created?
23:19 < bls> dunpeal: usermod
23:19 < mawk> it's tricky dunpeal
23:19 < mawk> it won't change uid/gid of files already created
23:19 < bls> dunpeal: but just changing that is going to have serious implications
23:20 < mawk> for the file system you can for instance run a file command that will change every old uid to the new, and same for gid
23:20 < mawk> but you better start fresh
23:20 < mawk> find command*
23:22 < dunpeal> mawk, bls: thanks, the key issue is that I'm installing Ubuntu and I need the main user I'm creating - me - to have a specific UID.
23:22 < dunpeal> (And also belong to a specific group with a specific GID)
23:23 < dunpeal> mawk, bls: I can see how usermod is ideal, but unfortunately I don't create the adduser invocation embedded in the Ubuntu installer
23:23 < mawk> why the specific uid ?
23:23 < dunpeal> mawk: permissions for mounted network drives.
23:24 < mawk> can't you remap the UIDs ?
23:24 < mawk> it should be a common problem
23:24 < dunpeal> mawk: no idea... how would that work?
23:24 < hexnewbie> idmapd exists for sure, but changing uids is simpler than figuring out how to use it or why it doesn't work
23:25 < mawk> kernel docs talk about the rpc.idmap daemon
23:25 < mawk> yeah
23:26 < dunpeal> Isn't the cleanup after a UID change just running a global (from the root level) chown script?
23:27 < bls> I always skip the initial user creation in the installer for similar reasons
23:27 < dunpeal> I don't see that I can do that with Ubuntu, or even Xubuntu
23:27 < bls> ah, forgot, they don't use root initially
23:27 < xamithan> Just don't use ubuntu?
23:27 < bls> could always create a "dummy" user for bootstrapping
23:28 < mawk> you could run a chown script yes dunpeal
23:28 < mawk> but UIDs could be stored elsewhere
23:31 < phinxy> How can bash check if $tty is /dev/tty* or /dev/pts/* ?
23:31 < bls> phinxy: for what purpose?
23:31 < dunpeal> mawk: thanks
23:31 < Linnak> Hi, I'm looking for a linux based free router os using it on an APU2C4 board. Which do you recommend IPFire, OpenWRT/LEDE or Untangle?
23:31 < dunpeal> bls: yeah, since Ubuntu (retardedly) forces me to create a user, I might just create a dummy user.
23:32 < rascul> phinxy there's a command 'tty' that might be what you're looking for
23:32 < bls> phinxy: or if you're just wanting to know if you're outputting to a tty, test/[ can do that
23:33 < jim> phinxy, start with: echo $tty :)
23:33 < phinxy> its dead, jim
23:34 < jim> the third star trek reference on freenode today! are you a doctor not a pepper?
23:35 < bls> is that a Spies Like Us reference?
23:35 < jim> actually the fourth... there were two on #perl
23:35 < jim> they do?
23:36 < mawk> phinxy: from a script you've got the tty command, from a program you've got ttyname(3)
23:36 < mawk> also to check if you've got a controlling terminal you can do if (exec 9<>/dev/tty)2>/dev/null; then ...; fi
23:37 < bls> or `[ -t 1 ] && echo Output is to a tty`
23:37 < jim> yeah, that's true... first, now to get the current tty into $tty
23:38 < rascul> tty="$(tty)"
23:38 < jim> you can do it... but maybe you want to pick a different variable name than a command nwme
23:39 < rascul> probably want to verify it is a tty first also
23:39 < rascul> with bls' example
23:39 < rascul> '[ -t 1 ] && tty="$(tty)" || exit' or something of the sort
23:39 < mawk> stdout could be redirected
23:40 < jim> what are the possibilities if it's not a tty?
23:40 < mawk> and the program could still have a controlling terminal
23:40 < mawk> same with stdin, same with stderr
23:40 < bls> heh, hence all the questions for the question asker :P
23:40 < rascul> although until phinxy replies we can't do much more than keep guessing at what is needed
23:41 < mawk> jim: a pipe, a file, a memfd, a device file, anything
23:42 < mawk> sudo doesn't use stdin, for instance
23:42 < mawk> it uses /dev/tty to get the password
23:44 < bls> similar to gpg
23:45 < HyP3r> Hello, is there a plugin or similar for oh-my-zsh in which one can complete arguments of command line calls from the history? Example: I enter ping super.complex.hostname.com and would like to make another nslookup on it. So I'm typing nslookup super <tab> and this hostname will be suggested again.
23:46 < bls> HyP3r: not sure about zsh, but in bash and ksh, <esc/alt> . does that
23:48 < mawk> alt-. produces strange results
23:48 < Celmor> is there a tool to check how much folders grow, e.g. create a snapshot now and check later or compure with backup?
23:48 < bls> *shrug* that's what I've always used in both shells
23:48 < HyP3r> alt+. produes really strange results but does that :)
23:48 < rascul> what are these strange results?
23:48 < mawk> ah, it gives the last arguments of commands in the history
23:49 < mawk> nice
23:49 < HyP3r> rascul: it gives the last arugments but not completion
23:49 < rascul> what do you mean not completion?
23:50 < HyP3r> e.g. ping super.complex.com -> now I want to dig that: I type "dig sup" -> alt+. then I have supsuper.complex.com I hope now its clear
23:50 < bls> you said you wanted to repeat the last argument. how is it supposed to auto-complete arbitrary strings?
23:50 < mawk> the fish shell does it out of the box
23:50 < bls> don't type anything, just give the command and alt+.
23:50 < HyP3r> Maybe we talked past each other
23:51 < HyP3r> bls: yeah the problem is that this is working if it was really the last command but now the command I typed weeks ago
23:51 < rascul> HyP3r ahh ok i see what you're saying now
23:51 < mawk> it shows what it would complete in a light police, you do right arrow to accept or up arrow to browse the history
23:51 < mawk> in the way you ask
23:51 < bls> unless you want it to search back through history for strings to complete
23:51 < HyP3r> mawk: I'll take a look at fish + oh-myzsh
23:52 < bls> fish is a shell, not a zsh plugin
23:52 < mawk> but there's something called oh-my-fish if you absolutely want that
23:52 < mawk> but fish is pretty powerful on its own already
23:52 < mawk> just the scripting language isn't compatible with bash at all
23:52 < mawk> I don't use it
23:53 < HyP3r> bls: I ment https://github.com/zsh-users/zsh-autosuggestions
23:54 < HyP3r> But any other suggetions?
23:54 < bls> HyP3r: asked #zsh?
23:54 < HyP3r> bls: good point :)
--- Log closed Thu May 17 00:00:22 2018