--- Log opened Tue May 22 00:00:28 2018
00:01 < superguest> I have a mystery I need solved.  So I just switched over to arch from Ubuntu and I brought over one my intel fakeraids which I access using dmraid.
00:01 < Psi-Jack> Don't use fakeraid.
00:02 < superguest> Psi-Jack, please let me finish the story.  I have a mystery I need solved.
00:02 < superguest> I don't have a problem at hand.
00:02 < Psi-Jack> Well, stop hitting enter with a pause in thought. :p
00:04 < phinxy> Am I a hipster for choosing XFS over ext4?
00:04 < Psi-Jack> No.
00:04 < qman__> I use dehydrated, wasn't happy with acme.sh
00:05 < Psi-Jack> dehydrated couldn't determine the difference from an internal zone and public zone, last I used it.
00:05 < nekOwOseam> No you aren't
00:05 < nekOwOseam> XFS is a bit speedier than ext4
00:05 < superguest> so after installing dmraid on archlinux, I'd think I'll find the fakeraid /dev/mapper as usual.  Nope it's not there.  And when I tried to manually activate it using 'dmraid -ay' it failed.  The kernel log reports:
00:06 < superguest> "device-mapper: table: 253:0: mirror: Device lookup failure"
00:06 < superguest> "device-mapper: ioctl: error adding target to table"
00:07 < superguest> At that point I thought this is going to be a tough one for me resolve *but* the strange thing happens...
00:07 < superguest> after looking through the devices under /dev I found that my fakeraid got managed by md
00:08 < superguest> wtf?  my raid array now has a device node of "/dev/md/RAID1_s1v1_0"
00:08 < Psi-Jack> I still say: Don't use fakeraid. It's /not/ good.
00:08 < superguest> Psi-Jack, I am able to mount it and have full access to it
00:08 < rud0lf> can i send keyboard-media-pause-button signal to uhmm.. system?
00:09 < bls> that's not a signal
00:09 < Zajt> Hey! How can I create a file that has the name: --checkpoint=1 ?
00:09 < bls> are you wanting to emulate a keypress?
00:09 < rud0lf> or no-XY way, i want to pause media player when bluetooth headset is disconnected
00:09 < Psi-Jack> Zajt: Why... Would you want to do that?
00:09 < superguest> Psi-Jack: I can't explain what in the world is going on.
00:09 < Zajt> I am doing a thing
00:10 < rud0lf> i know how to listen to connection/disconnection, but i need to pause media somehow
00:10 < superguest> why is md managing my fakeraid array (which is supposed to be handled by dmraid)
00:10 < superguest> ?
00:10 < Psi-Jack> Zajt: There is most definitely a far better way to do "a thing".
00:10 < Zajt> I am pentesting
00:10 < bls> rud0lf: 1) you should be able to detect the event with udevd 2) the media player probably has a remote control socket somewhere you could interact with instead of faking keypresses
00:10 < Psi-Jack> The ink is empty.
00:12 < bls> rud0lf: and a decent number of media players listen on dbus
00:12 < superguest> Psi-Jack you got any idea?
00:13 < rud0lf> i'd like it to work with either rhythmbox, and media player embed into web page
00:15 < rud0lf> well i'm gonna google a bit more and eventually check into KDE Connect sources, there's media control there
00:26 < ryouma> what is the file chooser that pops up in vlc when i try to set a subtitle?  i cannot udnerstand these thigns.  directories first, can't enter your own path, i just don't get it.
00:33 < joeym26> hello
00:35 < im0nde> Hi, I have an issue with VirtualBox, when I start a VM sometimes my whole system (arch host) freezes. Just happened again, how can I find the cause?
00:36 < im0nde> I can't even switch to tty
00:42 < ayjay_t> so programs can detect if they're outputing to a pipe? and they'll not output color codes?
00:43 < ayjay_t> i mean, how do they do that
00:44 < meyou> ayjay_t, isatty
00:44 < ayjay_t> ooh so if i want to take it i need to use a pty
00:45 < ayjay_t> fake it*
00:45 < bls> you can, its better to just tell the program to not perform the check
00:46 < bls> think `ls --color=always`
00:46 < ryouma> you can pipe through cat
00:46 < ayjay_t> so in order to improve my script, i'm going to create a "terminal desktop" that uses ncurses to partition the screen into arbitrary blocks, and then runs functions/scripts in the blocks as if they are little terminals
00:46 < bls> you can pipe through 10 cats if you want
00:47 < ayjay_t> the feline CATeriplla
00:47  * ayjay_t is not good at typing
00:47 < bls> why not just use programs running in a loop in tmux?
00:47 < bls> or do you not want tiling?
00:47 < Blueking> can one dig up mobo info with cat /proc/sumthing ?
00:47 < ayjay_t> well what do you mean by tiling? I want it to output and then let me execute commands as normal
00:48 < ayjay_t> so it'll "print the desktop" but then scroll up normally
00:49 < bls> ayjay_t: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1400/1*ZVmiTfLBYpTUdh-Tadx_SQ.png
00:50 < ayjay_t> newsbeuter!
00:50 < ayjay_t> right so kind of like that but imagine `git --no-pager log` instead of `git log`
00:51 < bls> so a snapshot of such a thing instead of a continuously updating display
00:52 < twainwek> is that your screenshot bls
00:52 < phinxy> ryouma, dmesg | cat | tail still produces no color or was it something else you had in mind?
00:53 < bls> no, just some random hit on google
00:53 < twainwek> ok didn't think so, it looks pretty unusable
00:53 < ayjay_t> bls: yes
00:54 < ayjay_t> i mean, it will update for a bit, and when it's done, it'll be just a snapshot
00:54 < bls> yeah, typical unixporn level of overuse of colors, distractions, notifications, stats
00:54 < epicmetal> unixporn -> i never get any work done on my computer
00:54 < epicmetal> pretty, though
00:54 < twainwek> it's not even pretty
00:54 < epicmetal> i mean in general, not any specific link
00:55 < twainwek> oh
00:55 < bls> hah, yeah, I think this border would look better 2 pixels thinner, and that shade of blue in the titlebar needs just a bit more gradient, and oooh, conky just blinked
00:55 < ryouma> phinxy: i guess youw anted the opposite of what it hught you wanted
00:56 < brutser> hi, how do i include a few custom rpm's (kmod) in kickstarter? do i need to setup local repository? it are just 3-4 rpms, so my question is if i can include them some way?
00:56 < im0nde> Anyone playing internet poker on linux? recommendations ?
00:56 < meyou> game is dead
00:57 < domhnall> im0nde: yeah, always bet on black
00:57 < domhnall> :P
00:57 < im0nde> domhnall: meant rgarding compatible sites
00:57 < bls> im0nde: not really on topic for here
00:58 < phinxy> ryouma• cat <(dmesg) does not make colors either :)
00:58 < im0nde> ok, thougth somebody migth know
00:59 < bls> im0nde: try #gamingonlinux
00:59 < ryouma> phinxy: color=always
00:59 < bls> they should have a better idea
01:00 < ryouma> why would dmesg make colors?
01:00 < phinxy> Makes it easy to find errors in red
01:00 < ryouma> use bootlogd
01:01 < ryouma> colortail
01:07 < ALowther> Are recommended Kali guides? I downloaded & installed a copy on my laptop and I am blown away by the 10's of folders, each holding 10's of programs that I have never even heard of before.
01:07 < ALowther> Any recommended Kali guides?*
01:07 < ryouma> that os is extraordinarily popular in questions on this channel
01:08 < ALowther> There seems to not be a popular/active channel dedicated to it.
01:09 < bls> there's a channel on here buy they may have had to hide it
01:09 < gm152> #kali-linux exists.
01:09 < ryouma> is an increasing multi zone error rate a big deal on hard drives?
01:09 < gm152> Yes, it's +s.
01:10 < bls> I'd say a single error is a big deal. if it's getting worse, you should be preparing for disaster/replacement
01:10 < ALowther> gm152:I am not finding anything with that channel name.
01:10 < bls> ALowther: it's hidden
01:11 < Thanos> how do you go from new user to reasonably proficient without breaking your install constantly?
01:11 < ALowther> bls:Okay, I am not familiar with how that works. Does that mean I can not join? Or I just need to do something special to join?
01:12 < bls> ALowther: don't know, don't deal with that stuff
01:12 < gm152> You won't because the +s channel mode that is set on that channel hides it from channel search tools such as /list and alis.
01:13 < ALowther> Ah, I got in, thanks
01:22 < dviola> how can I scan a system for rootkits?
01:22 < bls> dviola: rkhunter
01:23 < dviola> thanks
01:23 < EL3CTR0N> does anyone know how to use ssh-agent with rsnapshot?
01:25 < bls> EL3CTR0N: can you be more specific? it should just work, and if it doesn't, there's several layers between those two where things could go wrong
01:26 < EL3CTR0N> i can unlock the ssh-agent using ssh-add /root/.ssh/privatekey but when i log out the rsnapshot doesnt work
01:26 < EL3CTR0N> it seems ssh-agent stops when i log out
01:26 < bls> "log out of the rsnapshot"?
01:27 < EL3CTR0N> no log out of the terminal
01:29 < dviola> I was employed until recently and it turns out my employers were scammers and didn't pay me, I ran some of their crappy PHP system as my user and I'm worried it could have malware
01:29 < jim> ok, so let me see if I have the steps right... (first you might have to run the ssh-agent), then you ssh-add, then when you ssh to machines that have that key, it handles it for you... right so far?
01:29 < dviola> I still have their source code but it's too large to check all of the code
01:29 < bls> what's controlling/starting/potentially stopping ssh-agent? what terminal are you exiting out of? does ssh to this host work? do you have passwords on your keys?
01:30 < dviola> I should've run it in a VM
01:30 < meyou> dviola, you ran it as your user...on your personal PC?
01:30 < meyou> O_o
01:30 < dviola> meyou: yes
01:31 < jim> dviola, you know who they are... you could make major trouble for them... and maybe you should, or threaten to, unless they pay every dime of what they owe
01:31 < meyou> just be careful to not accidentally commit extortion
01:31 < dviola> jim: the justice is already after them but they operate with fake identities and addresses
01:31 < bls> although careful since you technically left with company property
01:32 < dviola> looking at social media there are other people affected
01:32 < dviola> should I reinstall my system?
01:32 < EL3CTR0N> okay so heres what i do eval `ssh-agent`; ssh-add /root/.ssh/id.rsa; in the rsnapshot conf file it has SSH_AUTH_SOCK="root/.ssh/sshagent.socket"
01:33 < EL3CTR0N> when i start this it runs just fine (doesnt ask for password) when im logging into other servers from this server
01:33 < jim> EL3CTR0N, do you think maybe the agent exits when you log out?
01:33 < EL3CTR0N> but when i log out of this server then log back in to ssh to another server  again it stops (asks for password)
01:33 < dviola> meyou: he asked me for ssh access first, I said no
01:34 < bls> 1) aren't there 2-3 other variables you need to connect to ssh-agent? 2) if there's no passwords, do you even need ssh-agent?
01:34 < dviola> meyou: he was trying to help me set up the app, but that's the first time I suspected
01:35 < bls> and if you do need ssh-agent/there are passwords, it's not going to work if there's no one there to enter them
01:36 < EL3CTR0N> isnt that the point of this ssh-agent so you unlock the keyring once then it doesnt ask for a password again untill u reboot?
01:36 < jim> you should at least file the suit alleging they owe you money for working for them... if the judge agrees, then you can probably walk into their office with a sheriff
01:37 < EL3CTR0N> to be honest someone else set this up at work and has now left so now im trying to figure all this out
01:37 < bls> no, you unlock the keyring once and it keeps it unlocked for a limited amount of time so you don't have to constantly reenter the password
01:37 < bls> unless you go and change the defaults
01:38 < dviola> jim: I've looked them up on google and they have lots of lawsuits pending already, but there are complaints from people saying they have trouble finding them because they use different addresses and identities
01:38 < jim> EL3CTR0N, then maybe the best thing to do is set it up from scratch again, and document it enough so you can completely reproduce it
01:38 < bls> you should look into something like keyring for sharing an agent between ssh invocations across different login sessions
01:38 < dviola> jim: I'll talk to a lawyer though, thanks
01:38 < bls> err, sorry, keychain
01:39 < jim> dviola, do you know how to reach the folks doing the complaining?
01:39 < EL3CTR0N> is there a way to start the ssh-agent to use the /root/.ssh/sshagent.socket
01:39 < dviola> jim: yes, I asked one of them but they are not responding
01:40 < EL3CTR0N> i notced it sets a new one up in /tmp when i start it
01:40 < bls> EL3CTR0N: that's what the keychain program does
01:41 < bls> EL3CTR0N: it saves all the relevant info from ssh-agent startup into a file that you source in your .profile or your shell scripts
01:41 < bls> there may be improved programs for doing it, that's just the one that was popular last time I messed with this
01:42 < EL3CTR0N> okay i might have a read up on this keychain it may be the missing puzzle piece
01:42 < jim> dviola, obviously they're under considerable pressure to cut and run... maybe your best move is just give the cops everything you know (or have you done this already?)
01:42 < EL3CTR0N> thanks so much for all your help guys
01:43 < dviola> jim: no, not yet
01:45 < jim> get prepared to do so, maybe by clicking something on your phone (that triggers a script, etc etc), then confront them (have a cop come with you if possible), give them 10 seconds to cut the check or you go to the cops (one of which might be right there)
01:48 < dviola> right, thanks
01:48 < cmptr> Is there a way to set the dpi for each monitor you have with X?
01:49 < dviola> jim: he asked me to delete the app from my computer, but I suspect it could have useful information to track him down
01:50 < dviola> I'll give the app to the authorities if they ask
01:52 < dviola> it's a large CRM system
01:56 < ||JD||> dviola: what makes you think it could include malware?
01:58 < epicmetal> Is there a generic way to kill GTK+ animations?
01:59 < dviola> ||JD||: I don't necessarily think it has malware, nor I have evidence for that, but I have evidence that they are evil
01:59 < dviola> ||JD||: so who knows
02:02 < dviola> when I first talked to him he was like "if you want, give me ssh access and I'll set up the app for you, you can go to rest while I do this"
02:02 < dviola> I said "no, I have to look at my router first"
02:02 < ||JD||> where you from?
02:03 < dviola> he was watching my screen on skype at the time, and I think he saw some files he wanted to have access to
02:03 < dviola> Brazil
02:18 < ||JD||> well cybercrime is most of the time ignored by the police in underdeveloped countries, unless the victim is a bank or a celebrity
02:19 < ||JD||> fuck, I'm not sure if there are even laws here where I live
02:19 < dviola> where are you from?
02:19 < ||JD||> Argentina
02:20 < oerheks> hey, that is where our Queen comes from
02:22 < ||JD||> I guess you Dutch oerheks
02:22 < oerheks> jups, and i am not happy about justice in the EU either
02:28 < jim> ||JD||, watch you language please
02:29 < ||JD||> ok uncle jim, I'm sorry
02:29 < R13ose> Jim
02:29 < jim> oh there you are
02:30 < jim> R13ose, done with the meeting?
02:31 < R13ose> Sorry to leave you hanging.  I was able to get that to mount so I can see this mount on the live usb.  Yet, there is another problem when I type exit on busybox.  Screenshot: Booting busybox exit command https://imgur.com/a/vORei7s
02:32 < R13ose> jim: yes done hours ago.  You left when I got back.
02:34 < jim> oh ok, sorry about that... so I looked at the output from fsck, and it says there are other copies of the superblock...
02:34 < maicod> if an ext3 filesystem says its clean and I run e2fsck -f so I check it anyway and I get inode errors that need to be repaired, should I be worried ?
02:35 < jim> wait, you got it mounted?
02:35 < maicod> to whom are you asking ?
02:35 < R13ose> jim: I believe so, I didn't actual try in file manager by clicking on this but I saw it there.
02:37 < jim> yeah it looks like you got it mounted, but it also looks like there is still damage
02:38 < jim> maybe you should try another copy of the superblock in fsck?
02:38 < R13ose> jim: someone said do this dumpe2fs /dev/mapper/ububtu--vg-root | grep "Backup superblock" to get the list and then fix them.  Fixing them, I think means using fsck, right?  I did that but am so confused.
02:39 < jim> what did you do exactly? what was the command line you used?
02:40 < jim> R13ose, what do you need from the drive, if you were goign to reinstall?
02:40 < R13ose> jim: did you see the first one?  After that I did sudo e2fsck -b block_number /dev/xxx
02:40 < jim> like 8192?
02:40 < jim> or 32768?
02:41 < R13ose> jim: I want to try and save this but if we get to the point where everything is dead, I will try and reinstall.
02:41 < Celmor> does `unlink` do the same as `rm`?
02:41 < jim> ok... do you have stuff in your /home dir?
02:41 < Celmor> if I create a hardlink of a file and call unlink on both the file seems to be gone
02:42 < R13ose> jim: whatever number was in the dumpe2fs but I might have done that wrong because I was confused and picked them all one at a time and rebooted after that
02:42 < jim> ok, did the machine come up?
02:42 < R13ose> jim: there should be but I don't have this on as I am eating dinner a min
02:43 < R13ose> jim: the error I got is what you see.
02:43 < R13ose> jim: I did something wrong.
02:44 < jim> R13ose, ok... do you have another drive, an emptyone?
02:44 < R13ose> jim: nope
02:45 < jim> do you have unpartitioned space on the current one?
02:46 < jim> (don't take any action on the drive right now)
02:46 < R13ose> jim: I can't remember
02:46 < TheNH813> Question, what's the reccommended log size for systemd?
02:47 < TheNH813> I set mine to 64MB after finding over 2GB of files in /var/log/journal, but should it be larger for any reason?
02:47 < danieldg> it all depends on what you expect to use the logs for
02:47 < jim> hmm... ok, could you run: fdisk -l 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
02:47 < sadbox> TheNH813: just depends on how long of a history you want
02:47 < jim> r13
02:48 < jim> R13ose, ^^^
02:48 < TheNH813> I don't use them for anything in particular.
02:48 < sadbox> TheNH813: in general I would keep it large-ish unless you're running out of disk space / etc
02:49 < TheNH813> Ah, yeah I had 0 bytes of free space.
02:49 < TheNH813> Which is why I did that.
02:49 < jim> R13ose, hmm... ok, could you run: fdisk -l 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
02:49 < R13ose> jim: eating dinner but I will try once live usb runs
02:49 < TheNH813> Between that and the pacman cache it consumed the 3.6GB of space I had atfer installation and installing my programs.
02:49 < TheNH813> So, I erased them both.
02:50 < TheNH813> Since I don't really use it, 64MB should be enough to debug any issues I run into, right?
02:50 < jim> ok, I'm about to jump in the car and head over to a class... it's early, so there'll be some time before the thing starts
02:51 < R13ose> jim: okay.  I will message you when I have that
02:51 < jim> R13ose, so, relax... have a good meal and when I surface (30-45 mins), I'll ping
02:51 < TheNH813> By the way, what do those logs even do?
02:51 < R13ose> Okay, thanks jim
02:51 < TheNH813> They have a lot of strange characters in them.
02:52 < danieldg> TheNH813: you read them with journalctl
02:52 < TheNH813> Ah, okay.
02:52 < jim> TheNH813, they collect info on what a particular subsystem did
02:53 < jim> TheNH813, whatever the subsystem wants to tell the log about what it did, the log will save that with a timestamp
02:54 < TheNH813> jim: Wow, even the notifications I get are in there. And lots of debug from the thumbnailer.
02:54 < TheNH813> And this line quite often: QXcbConnection: XCB error: 2 (BadValue)
02:54 < TheNH813> Likely QT and dbus messing up.
02:54 < jim> TheNH813, yep, they can possibly help you fix something
02:55 < TheNH813> Well, thanks for the info.
02:55 < TheNH813> At least now I know why it needs to exist.
02:56 < TheNH813> And as of right now it's about half full and has logs for the past 4 days. So about 8 days is how long the 64MB lasts.
02:57 < TheNH813> That's good enough for my purposes.
02:59 < R13ose> jim: http://termbin.com/fiwm
02:59 < danieldg> note that if you have bad luck, when something breaks you'll get more logs that day :)
02:59 < TheNH813> Indeed.
02:59 < TheNH813> But 64mb is still a lot of text.
03:09 < slamtime_> Is anyone here familiar with debian packaging and might be able to help me diagnose where the dependancies are declared?
03:10 < epicmetal> MATE really is coming along nicely
03:10 < TheNH813> slamtime_: I know a bit about it.
03:10 < slamtime_> "Selecting previously unselected package"
03:10 < slamtime_> and then a package I have absolutely no interest in including
03:11 < slamtime_> not sure where it's coming from. I'm not starting from scratch either I'm stumbling around something terribly twisted and legacy
03:11 < TheNH813> Inside the package file, there's a folder called control.tar.gz.
03:12 < TheNH813> Inide that, that's a file called 'control'
03:12 < TheNH813> It lists dependancies and the like.
03:12 < jim> is ther also one called data.tar.gz?
03:12 < slamtime_> inside the .deb?
03:12 < TheNH813> Yes.
03:13 < slamtime_> so I can extract with -e I think
03:13 < R13ose> jim: see link?
03:13 < jim> sounds kinda like a debian package to me
03:13 < slamtime_> I'm browsing a repo that gets built into a .deb
03:13 < jim> R13ose, sec
03:14 < TheNH813> slamtime_: A repo that gets built into a deb? Like source code?
03:15 < slamtime_> so a few years ago someone had the wise idea to build and install random dependancies via custom debian packages
03:15 < slamtime_> now they're interfering with things and I'm trying to rip out the parts that are unneeded
03:16 < slamtime_> but there's a strange dependancy chain and I don't know how to get it to not fail when it tries to install things I don't want it to
03:16 < slamtime_> so yes
03:16 < TheNH813> Oh on, not that. I dealt with that before. Yuck.
03:16 < slamtime_> also I'm booting a vm to build and look at the extracted .deb
03:16 < jim> R13ose, yeah... I might need it again in awhile... and, what it tells me is you have a 500g physical volume that's been added to the volume group ubuntu-vg
03:17 < TheNH813> slamtime_: Basically, the procedure I used was to remove all the non related files, and add them to the control file as dependancies, then recompress the package.
03:17 < TheNH813> It's a annoying and time consuming process.
03:17 < jim> when I get settled, I'll look at that... it might also be about an hour and a half later, as I'm gonna take a class when I get there
03:17 < slamtime_> so I guess I need to find out how the 'control file' is created
03:18 < slamtime_> because maven/jenkins builds this mess
03:18 < R13ose> jim: no worries.  Ping me when you are free.
03:18 < TheNH813> slamtime: package.deb/control.tar.gz/./control is a plain text file generated by checkinstall or a similar system.
03:19 < TheNH813> This might help you understand that. https://wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian
03:19 < slamtime_> thanks TheNH813
03:19 < slamtime_> I found a control file with 'depends: ' listed
03:19 < jim> r13, if you want to you can post what you need to the others here, and let them know you have a possibly damaged root partition that has /home on it, and you'd like to get the /home onto another LV in the same VG, if it has enough room (which it might not)
03:19 < slamtime_> but not the troublesome packaged
03:19 < slamtime_> will keep sniffing around
03:19 < jim> ok, back in awhile
03:19 < TheNH813> You won't need to read everything there, but it will help you fix up the package after you remove the troublesome files.
03:20 < slondr> What do I do when there's a directory in my home directory owned by root, but that neither I nor root can delete?
03:20 < slondr> I am the only other account on this machine.
03:20 < TheNH813> Whoever made that package was evil. XD
03:20 < TheNH813> sudo chown -R yourusername:yourgroup <file>
03:20 < TheNH813> That takes ownership of the file.
03:20 < TheNH813> Or folder.
03:21 < slondr> That gives me a lot of "Operation not permitted." errors
03:21 < TheNH813> You have to run that as root with sudo.
03:21 < slondr> I did.
03:21 < slondr> It gives me the same error.
03:21 < TheNH813> Hmmm...
03:21 < TheNH813> Let me check something.
03:21 < ayecee> not a permission error. the filesystem doesn't support ownership.
03:22 < R13ose> jim: are you saying the drive is too damaged to get booting again?
03:22 < TheNH813> aycee: Sounds like it's NTFS or FAT32. You'l have to mount it with yourself as the owner in the parameters.
03:22 < TheNH813> Unless it's not, in that case, you might need to fsck the disk.
03:22 < TheNH813> Or the immutable bit is set with chattr, whihc makes even root unable ot delete them until it's unset.
03:27 < slondr> Using chatter to clear various flags (such as i and u) did not help. I and root still can't delete this file.
03:27 < slondr> s/chatter/chattr/g
03:27 < ayecee> something is missing from this story
03:28 < ayecee> this isn't the kind of thing that happens accidentally
03:28 < TheNH813> Do you remember changing any permissions on those files in the past?
03:29 < ayecee> it's not a permissions problem. the error would be different.
03:30 < banisterfiend> does anyone know any advantages in using routing sockets vs just shelling out to the 'route' command? (in *nix)
03:31 < slondr> The directory was created when I installed archiso. I've since uninstalled it but the directory remains
03:31 < TheNH813> Hmmm...
03:32 < cmptr> I know I already asked this, but I left before I was able to get a response.  Is there a way to have a set ppi for each monitor?  Or override the ppi for a specific application?
03:33 < Sitri> cmptr: you mean dpi?  xrandr(1) has options for it
03:33 < ayecee> slondr: it could be a mount point
03:33 < TheNH813> Yes. But it will likely invlove a command, or the tools provided for your GPU manufacturer.
03:33 < ayecee> if so, unmount it.
03:34 < cmptr> Sitri: No I mean ppi, dpi is miss used a lot.  But I'm aware that there is a dpi option in xrandr, but that isn't for each monitor, that is just what will be used over all applications, no?
03:34 < Sitri> Most of the xrandr options are per output
03:35 < cmptr> Let me take a quick peek at the optionns.
03:35 < Sitri> xrandr --output SOMETHING --dpi SOMETHINGELSE
03:35 < Sitri> Something like that I think
03:35 < cmptr> Sitri: --dpi is literally right above --output where --output then lists all the other shit like --auto, --mode, --prefered --pos etc.
03:36 < TheNH813> Ppi is the physical resolution of the display. Dpi is the virtual resolution used to scale text, etc for the output.
03:36 < cmptr> But the usage says --dpi <dpi>/<output>
03:36 < cmptr> Dpi is used for print.
03:36 < slondr> Doesn't seem to be a mount point.
03:36 < slondr> At least, it isn't showing up in mount
03:39 < TheNH813> dpi is not only used for print.
03:39 < TheNH813> Dpi is also used for displays.
03:40 < cmptr> Displays are displayed in pixels, not dots.
03:40 < TheNH813> The pixels are the dots though.
03:40 < slondr> DPI stands for "displays per inch"
03:40 < cmptr> This is off topic TheNH813
03:41 < TheNH813> Okay.
03:42 < lone-wolf> I've removed wireshark from / usr / bin / wireshark and now I need to put it in autorun, what do I do?
04:03 < Kremator> guys, atm, and i know its a heavy subjective question, which is better GTK 3 or Qt?
04:04 < Kremator> specially aesthetic wise
04:04 < cmptr> Qt for sure then.
04:04 < ayecee> i can't believe that you've done this
04:04 < cmptr> It's 2018, get over it.  xD
04:05 < Kremator> ayecee, i havent used a DE that uses Qt, but i have seen it on VLC
04:05 < ayecee> but you haven't considered that it's monday
04:05 < Kremator> so?
04:05 < cmptr> Is it really..?  I thought it was Friday..
04:05 < ayecee> feels like friday
04:05 < ayecee> common mistake
04:05 < cmptr> Is it actually Monday though?...
04:05 < slondr> Qt is way better aesthetically and is much less cancerous to program in
04:06 < cmptr> KDE is eye candy, but is buggy.
04:06 < slondr> Qt also supports Android and iOS in a way that GTK just doesn't
04:06 < slondr> That being said, KDE is shit.
04:06 < Kremator> ok perfect, so Qt based will be my next DE
04:06 < cmptr> I'm offended.
04:06 < ayecee> also ugly
04:06 < slondr> It's pretty and all but damn is it sluggish and buggy
04:06 < Kremator> slondr, why KDE is shit? last time i heard the dev teama ctually got their stuff together
04:06 < cmptr> No they didn't.
04:07 < ayecee> mind the language please
04:07 < Kremator> well then, what other eye candy DE is out there that is based on Qt?
04:07 < cmptr> I use KDE, I can't use anything but.
04:07 < cmptr> You gotta have power though.
04:07 < slondr> Prettiness of a DE really isn't a GTK vs Qt question
04:07 < cmptr> What GPU you have Kremator ?
04:08 < Kremator> slondr, yeah but i have been using GTK over the last 2 years, i want a change, i want fresh air
04:08 < Kremator> cmptr, AMD Radeon 7520g mobile ofc
04:08 < slondr> I personally think that Pantheon is the prettiest DE by far. I don't use it, though.
04:08 < cmptr> Umm...
04:08 < cmptr> KDE may not be the best for you.  What about CPU?
04:09 < Kremator> cmptr, really? KDE does need that much GPU?
04:09 < slondr> There's also LXQt, which is very light on resources
04:09 < slondr> And yes KDE is very resource-intensive
04:09 < Kremator> slondr, idc about being lightweight, i have been living like a monk (resource wise) for too much time
04:09 < Bashing-om> Kremator: Might be of interest: https://news.softpedia.com/news/hands-on-with-first-lubuntu-18-10-build-featuring-the-lxqt-desktop-by-default-521200.shtml .
04:09 < slondr> You say that NOW
04:09 < Kremator> i want to be that rich fatboy from the city with highlited sun glasses
04:10 < slondr> Until suddenly you get crazy screen tearing when you want to move a window two inches
04:10 < slondr> Despite having vsync turned on
04:10 < dannylee> KDE is a bit of a weeeennnyyy
04:10 < cmptr> FOr me that's okay because I've got a 1080Ti with an i7 6850K and 32GB of DDR4 mem.
04:10 < Kremator> screen tearing? ha! i have been living with it since 2016
04:10 < cmptr> I don't have screen tearing on mine..
04:10 < cmptr> And I run it at a 165Hz.
04:11 < slondr> meanwhile I'm chilling here on i3 being triply productive and using less than 400MB of ram for my whole system once booted
04:11 < Kremator> cmptr, i do run at 60 hz, but i do have xfce xD
04:11 < Kremator> slondr, cmptr, ayecee, i dont really care about ram usage since i got 6 GB and i dont nearly full it up so, which eye candy DE would you recomend me?
04:11 < slondr> >I don't really care about RAM using since I got 6 GB
04:12 < slondr> 6GB is not enough for KDE.
04:12 < cmptr> Let me check how much I'm using.
04:12 < Kremator> slondr, stop memeing please
04:12 < slondr> If you REALLY want eye candy over everything, you cannot beat a well-configured Awesome + compiz/compton setup. It'll just take you a few hours or days to get it to where you want.
04:12 < slondr> KDE looks nice out of the box but other than themes there isn't much you can do with it.
04:13 < cmptr> You will hate and love KDE at the sametime.  It's very customziable, has 'some' decent user themes.
04:13 < bls> and then you'll be continually tweaking it
04:13 < Kremator> wait, wasnt awesome a DE + WM based/fork of i3?
04:13 < bls> instead of doing any real work
04:13 < Kremator> bls, mmm sounds right to me...at home where i always never do real work outside vbox
04:13 < cmptr> It may be laggy at first until you get your drivers working.  If you have dual screens..  That's the biggest issue.
04:13 < slondr> no, awesome was a fork of dwm a VERY long time ago but nowadays it's very unique
04:14 < cmptr> But you can turn off a lot of the features.
04:14 < Kremator> mmm, now the question is, KDE or GNOME3?
04:15 < cmptr> Do you like to move your taskbar?
04:15 < dannylee> gnome is better
04:15 < slondr> Awesome is itself a Lua interpreter and can run DEs as client processes, so you can easily (for example) run Compton + KDE background services on top of an Awesome backend
04:15 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: Try both.
04:15 < Kremator> cmptr, yes, i like it right at the bottom, windows-like
04:15 < dannylee> the emulator work better with gnome
04:15 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: And no, i3 is original. awesome is original. Neither are DEs.
04:15 < cmptr> GNOME may be a problem for you then.  For me I like it on the left.
04:16 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, yeah the thing is, i dont have the internet connection to do that and a heavy DE is like 400 MB worth of downloads (because ofc im gonnainstall it's tools instead of using legacy xfce ones)
04:16 < cmptr> ANd 6GB is more than enough.
04:16 < Psi-Jack> "of course"
04:16 < cmptr> I'm using not even 4 with Kitty and chrome with 20 tabs.
04:16 < cmptr> ANd two screens.
04:16 < slondr> Kremator what tools do you mean?
04:16 < Psi-Jack> "Legacy" XFCE "ones?"
04:17 < cmptr> KDE is over 1GB in totall.
04:17 < ayecee> Kremator is playing a game where he invites opinions so he can shoot them down for more and more contorted reasons.
04:17 < Kremator> slondr, file manager, taskbar addons, stuff like that
04:17 < ayecee> the only winning move is not to play.
04:17 < bls> "I only have one requirement" "I only have two requirements" "I only have...."
04:17 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: Welp. Your call. You choose your life. Not us.
04:17 < cmptr> Kremator:  Look here.  https://store.kde.org/
04:17 < slondr> File manager has more to do with what toolkit your DE is based off of than what DE it actually is. Everything on Qt should use Dolphin, everything on GTK should use Nemo
04:17 < cmptr> Look at the themes and all the options you have to customize.  (It's all free)
04:17 < Kremator> ayecee, -_- or maybe i habe been using xfce since late 2016, i really want something new, but preferably something that is not a fork from a lightweight DE already
04:18 < cmptr> File manager for KDE is Dolphin.
04:18 < Pentode> i've been using xfce since it's inception and have had no desire to change. :)
04:18 < Kremator> slondr, interesting i didnt know that, anyways in that case i shouldnt keep using xfce ones in a Qt based DE, since xfce is still on GTK
04:18 < Psi-Jack> Pentode: So you remember when XFCE was more like CDE? ;)
04:19 < Pentode> yeah i remember those days ;p
04:19 < Psi-Jack> heh heh
04:19 < Kremator> Pentode, it's not bad at all, is just that i want a change for once, you know, like fresh air
04:19 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: I designed, personally, my own DE of choice.
04:19 < slondr> If you want a REAL change of scenery, use Enlightenment
04:19 < Pentode> i hear you. sometimes i fall back to windowmaker when i want to rid of the clutter.
04:19 < cmptr> KDE is the way to go then.  The amount of custuomizeabliy there is, it will take you days to come to a finaly decision of what you want.
04:19 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, which combo do you use?
04:19 < Pentode> sometimes i use enlightenment
04:20 < Kremator> slondr, sell it to me
04:20 < slondr> It's literally nothing like any other DE you'll ever use
04:20 < Kremator> lol
04:20 < slondr> Also it's pieces don't mix well with other DEs so it's difficult to get an enlightenment feel on non-enlightenment desktops
04:20 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: XFCE4 session/panels, i3 window-manager, Nautilus, Gedit, Chrome, and Evolution.
04:21 < slondr> ew Psi-Jack that made me feel dirty
04:21 < cmptr> ALso, with KDE, you can get GTK application to use the KDE themes via plugins.
04:21 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, interesting, why i3 wm instead of something like KDE's wm?
04:21 < cmptr> That way one applciation isn't black, and others are white.
04:21 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, if you don't mind KDE bugs.
04:21 < slondr> i3, Emacs, Nemo, Firefox, Thunderbird
04:21 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, or do you need the i3 wm to keep the "keyboard-only" functionality?
04:21 < slondr> cmptr you can easily do that on any GTK wm as well
04:21 < Pentode> i've always had stability issues with kde. every time i try a release. :|
04:22 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, are the KDE bugs deal breaker? i mean, they would often crash x11?
04:22 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: Because I abandoned KDE. I was a KDE user since pre KDE 1.0.0, and with the 5-series I've had it. Tired of the huge show-stopping bugs they have.
04:22 < dell00> keyboard-only functionality works in TTY environment with tmux.
04:22 < slondr> tmux breaks zsh colors though
04:22 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: Yes. Imagine a taskbar item flickering like crazy, until it crashes X.
04:22 < cmptr> I didn't know that slondr.  I really did like GTK, but it was two white and I didn't like having the bar at the top.
04:22 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, :/
04:22 < cmptr> I also really liked the Gnome terminal with how you resized it ,the text would go with it.  But If you use Kitty, you won't get that problem.
04:23 < slondr> Idk about other systems but in Arch there's just one package you install that links Qt themes to Gtk themes
04:23 < Psi-Jack> And that's just the milder bugs. The lack of fully integrated KDE 5 apps because they haven't been ported yet is ridiculous. Kontact for example, stil KDE 4-based.
04:23 < cmptr> That is false Psi-Jack.  I have never expierenced any flicking.
04:23 < slondr> And if you, like me, have Gtk themes configured system-wide (rather than depending on a DE's settings dialog) then it works very fluidly
04:23 < Psi-Jack> cmptr: It's not false. I've experienced /that/ since 4.x days, on multiple systems.
04:23 < Psi-Jack> As have others.
04:24 < slondr> Also screw other terminals, just use rxvt-unicode and be done with it
04:24 < cmptr> That is a compositor seting then.
04:24 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, is the difference between KDE4 apps and ht eaesthetics of current KDE5 so big? i mean, would i notice like a winXP era app running on macOS?
04:24 < Kremator> the aesthetics*
04:24 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: Not really. Just two different libraries both consuming RAM.
04:24 < Psi-Jack> Without KSM sharing.
04:24 < cmptr> If you have an incorrect refresh rate set or the highest vsync setting with mesa drivers, then you will get flickering.
04:25 < cmptr> Kremator: What application do you intend on running?
04:25 < Kremator> cmptr, ok that can be a problem for me
04:25 < Pentode> i could never recommend kde. i don't mind Qt, but kde? never.
04:25 < Psi-Jack> cmptr: The problem doesn't start right away. It takes several days of uptime.
04:25 < Kremator> since AMD dropped the support for my card and i only have the open drivers that works "okay-ish" currently
04:25 < cmptr> That is fine, you just can't use the "Highest" option.
04:26 < Kremator> cmptr, daily stuff i guess? and as somebody 8i think you) said above, if i migrate to Qt based DE, i will use Qt apps
04:26 < Psi-Jack> And not to mention. I experienced the problem in my main desktop with both a Nvidia GTX 260 and the current one a GTX 950
04:26 < cmptr> What is daily stuff?  Lol.  I only use CHrome and kitty (Teriminal)
04:27 < slondr> just use i3 which is neither GTK nor Qt
04:27 < slondr> then you can use both
04:27 < Kremator> cmptr, libreoffice, firefox, some gayms with wine, telegram, etc
04:27 < Psi-Jack> slondr: Hence my blend of XFCE+i3. :)
04:27 < slondr> ew get that gtk out of my i3
04:27 < Psi-Jack> I have nice panels, versus i3's slim textual things..
04:28 < Psi-Jack> And i3-workspaces-plugin for XFCE panel, so it handles the workspaces and messages.
04:28 < slondr> When I'm using Linux, I generally want to do things. Those things usually don't include looking at whitespace.
04:28 < cmptr> I think you should just experiment then in my opinon.  Because I do think you will like KDE, but a lot of apps use GTK and wont exactly fit in with KDE.
04:28 < slondr> I really like i3's line-of-text style because it gives me useful information without taking up needless space
04:28 < Kremator> slondr, cmptr, Psi-Jack, taking into account i like my xfce but i want eye candy and you have suggested KDE, what would you think about Xfce4 + KDE's wm?
04:28 < Psi-Jack> And I mainly use the xfce4-session manager for handling startup of systemtray apps.
04:29 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: I don't recommend KDE, actually. I discourage it these days.
04:29 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, well you didnt suggested KDE, i do want your opinion aswell :P
04:29 < Psi-Jack> KDE has one thing. specifically ONE thing no other wm has. Window Rules, which can be very ncie.
04:29 < slondr> Psi-Jack compiz has them too
04:29 < Psi-Jack> No it doesn't.
04:29 < Kremator> what does do the windows rules?
04:30 < cmptr> I like the animmations that KDE has and can have while minizming and maximmizing and stuff.
04:30 < Kremator> ayecee, can i PM you for a moment?
04:30 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: You can right click a title bar, and tell that window to always be in this X, Y position, size, sticky (on all workspaces), etc.
04:30 < ayecee> for what possible reason
04:30 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, oh, xfce does have that too, but with a bit less functionality
04:30 < Psi-Jack> No, it doesn't.
04:30 < Psi-Jack> YOu have to use 3rd-party tools for that.
04:30 < slondr> Wait, that's what you meant?
04:31 < slondr> Awesome does that, like 100%
04:31 < Kremator> yeah it have, you can setup each windows to be for example over ay other windows or to be under
04:31 < Psi-Jack> Kremator: No...
04:31 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, yeap, my xfce that came with xubuntu does that, unless you arent not refering to those features
04:32 < Kremator> ayecee, i just wanted to tell you "see? we can actually have a decent DE talk in the channel without starting a pub fight"
04:32 < Psi-Jack> Nope. I am not.
04:32 < ayecee> that's not what i saw.
04:32 < Psi-Jack> devilspie, and later when that got abandoned, devilspie2
04:33 < Psi-Jack> That's what you'd have to use to get anywhere near the same KDE Window Rules functionality with anything not kwm.
04:33 < Kremator> ayecee, it's not a fight if there are no victims :)
04:33  * Psi-Jack throws a cream pie at Kremator.
04:33 < Psi-Jack> :)
04:33 < Kremator> :P
04:34 < Psi-Jack> The other thing I really like about i3 that few other window-managers offer is per-monitor virtual desktops.
04:35 < slondr> ^
04:35 < Psi-Jack> Gnome3 doesn't even have it, normally, but they do have one display with virtual desktops, and one focus display that doesn't switch. I emulated this behavior in KDE for years because it was one thing about GNOME 3 I actually really liked.
04:35 < Psi-Jack> But, I find myself with per-display workspaces to be far more efficient. :)
04:36 < Psi-Jack> And I limit myself to 10, 5 per display.
04:36 < ayecee> such restraint
04:36 < slondr> Wait, isn't the 10 workspace limit an i3 thing?
04:36 < Kremator> Psi-Jack, you use 10 workspaces!?
04:36 < slondr> I didn't think you could have more.
04:36 < Psi-Jack> slondr: I scripted it.
04:36 < Psi-Jack> YOu can have hundreds.
04:36 < slondr> How?
04:36 < ayecee> magic
04:36 < slondr> I routinely hit 10 and wish I had more.
04:36 < Psi-Jack> i3msg
04:36 < Kremator> slondr, believing enough
04:37 < ayecee> i want to believe
04:37 < Psi-Jack> slondr: You can only control each increment of 10 at a time.
04:38 < bls> hehe I can't recall the last time I had 10 windows open, much less used 10 workspaces
04:38 < Psi-Jack> As in, you can only control the lowest part with the standard keyboard bindings. But you can +10 or -10 easily with an i3msg call.
04:38 < slondr> hm
04:38 < Psi-Jack> Man, I always have 10 or more windows open at a time. I have 5 open vscode instances open, stacked with a tmux gnome-terminal.
04:39 < slondr> I might have to invest in learning how to do that. 10 workspaces is really not enough when you have three monitors.
04:39 < slondr> I do almost everything in Emacs but I *still* manage to have dozens of other programs open at most given points.
04:39 < Psi-Jack> slondr: I totally scripted my approach entirely. 1-5 is always on monitor 1, 6-0 are always on monitor 2.
04:39 < slondr> Ooh that's smart
04:40 < Psi-Jack> And I can rotate accross workspaces on the active display between those ranges.
04:40 < Psi-Jack> Keeps things efficently tidy for me. :)
04:40 < slondr> hmmmmmmmmmm
04:41 < Psi-Jack> And it's a python script I call to do all that with. :)
04:51 < Psi-Jack> Too quiet suddenly LOL
04:51 < nekOwOseam> GTK vs Qt, which do you prefer?
04:51 < quul> they're both awful
04:52 < Psi-Jack> I honestly /prefer/ Qt.
04:52 < quul> the answer though, is gtk2
04:52 < nekOwOseam> Qt has a lot more dependencies than GTK3
04:52 < nekOwOseam> (5)
04:53 < nekOwOseam> But I don
04:53 < bls> and?
04:53 < nekOwOseam> 't really think that matters too muc
04:53 < nekOwOseam> h
04:53 < slondr> Xlib is best
04:53 < nekOwOseam> My typing today
04:53 < slondr> Anything that binds to Xlib is GOAT
04:53 < slondr> (that includes GTK and Qt, but nothing that binds to GTK or Qt)
04:53 < ayecee> baahh
04:54 < slondr> Actually XCB is also really good
04:54 < slondr> But anything that's more than one layer of abstraction above XCB or Xlib is just bad
04:55 < nekOwOseam> I honestly can't see GTK3 going away unless the dev team REALLY mess it up
04:55 < bls> and people still stick with it for some reason
04:55 < bls> so it's probably here to stay
04:55 < quul> we'll see
04:55 < ryouma> i can't get gtk3 to make the text box in startpage in firefox show.  it is black on black.  i do not understand why.
04:55 < Pentode> theyre doing a pretty good job messing it up. :/
04:55 < quul> you can only perform the same trick so many times before people start getting tired of it
04:56 < nekOwOseam> Qt5 is definitely the preferred choice
04:56 < ryouma> goat?
04:56 < nekOwOseam> But so far every DE using the Qt framework is an unholy mess
04:56 < nekOwOseam> LXQt is still in heavy development
04:56 < nekOwOseam> (still more stable than plasma)
04:57 < bls> ryouma: til goat sth, ofc
05:00 < slondr> the real meta is doing everything in the half-broken python2 binding for xlib
05:01 < nekOwOseam> about to try evilwm
05:01 < slondr> nice
05:01 < nekOwOseam> seems like an interesting window manager. anybody have any experience with it?
05:02 < slondr> Not myself, but I have friends who have
05:03 < bls> xlib? scoff, ain't got time for that. gotta go with Tk
05:03 < nekOwOseam> "'Minimalist' here does not mean it is too bare to be usable - it just means it omits a lot of the stuff that make other window managers unusable."
05:03 < nekOwOseam> I've heard of Tk
05:04 < slondr> Tk is very good, especially the Tcl bindings. Python bindings not so much.
05:04 < bls> but then you have to use tcl
05:04 < slondr> tcl is good
05:05 < supernovah> Hey when a program says a predicate matches a pattern, what does 'pattern' mean, as in `-I pattern`, is pattern a POSIX regex, a simple string match or what... is there some standard?
05:05 < supernovah> and say for example the program is tree, how do I know what it's matching against in the first place
05:05 < bls> no, there is no standard
05:06 < bls> could be straight text, a glob, a regexp. would need to read the docs
05:07 < amosbird> Hi, why doesn't sudo -g '#222222' -u '#222222' ls  work ?
05:07 < slondr> lol
05:08 < bls> amosbird: what happens when you try it?
05:08 < amosbird> sudo -g '#222222' -u '#222222' ls
05:08 < amosbird> Sorry, user root is not allowed to execute '/usr/bin/ls' as #222222:#222222 on nobida201.
05:08 < amosbird> without -g it works fine
05:08 < bls> then there's your answer
05:10 < amosbird> hmm, I'm asking why it doesn't work.
05:10 < slondr> it doesn't work because you added -g
05:11 < n-iCe> ok
05:11 < n-iCe> I need a linux distro, something stable, not fancy but lightweight, with a big software support.
05:11 < slondr> arch
05:11 < supernovah> Ubuntu 20.04 alpha 0.0.0.1
05:12 < n-iCe> I'm in Ubuntu, it feels big
05:12 < supernovah> _reImagIned(x264)
05:12 < n-iCe> it is a 2GB+ dosl
05:12 < n-iCe> disk
05:12 < slondr> ^^^
05:12 < n-iCe> slondr: I was thinking about arch, which DE same purposes
05:12 < bls> "I need a distro that makes me feel special. like a real big man"
05:12 < bls> :|
05:12 < slondr> i3
05:12 < supernovah> }:
05:12 < n-iCe> i3 is not a DE
05:12 < n-iCe> is it?
05:12 < slondr> no de is lightweight
05:13 < n-iCe> not even lxde?
05:13 < bls> n-iCe: and arch isn't a stable distro, but you asked
05:13 < slondr> nope
05:13 < n-iCe> Was reading about it
05:13 < slondr> arch is very stable
05:13 < n-iCe> bls: oh is not?
05:13 < slondr> if you break your arch install, the same thing you did would break anything else
05:13 < bls> no, it's the opposite of stable
05:13 < supernovah> lightweight : desktop environment, pick one
05:13 < slondr> it's just so stable that it often APPEARS unstable because other distros break before you get the chance to break it yourself
05:13 < n-iCe> lubuntu?
05:14 < slondr> I've been running the same arch install on my desktop continuously for the better part of a decade. Never broken it beyond repair.
05:14 < n-iCe> slondr: ok, may I pv for a second?
05:14 < slondr> sure
05:14 < bls> yes, that's always the argument that rolling release doesn't matter because one person has an anecdote that it's fine
05:14 < n-iCe> bls: may I ask what you use?
05:15 < supernovah> that's one problem with making absolute statements, exceptions provide a rebuttal
05:15 < bls> if I need a stable distro, I go with something non-rolling that does LTS
05:19 < Psi-Jack> Meh. I used to think differently as well. Then I changed. :)
05:20 < n-iCe> Psi-Jack: how
05:20  * n-iCe smiles
05:21 < Psi-Jack> Well, it helps that I have extensive knowledge in more Linux than most people will ever know in their lifetimes. :)
05:21 < n-iCe> so, would you go with arch?
05:21 < n-iCe> talking about my needs I mean.
05:21 < Psi-Jack> I run Arch, but I won't recommend Arch.
05:21 < n-iCe> I see
05:22 < n-iCe> what would you recommend me my friend.
05:22 < Psi-Jack> I recommend you do what you do.
05:22 < Psi-Jack> Use what you want to use. Decide yourself. Only you can.
05:22 < n-iCe> yeah, but ubuntu is taking 7.3 GB of ram.
05:22 < bls> you also wouldn't call arch a non-rolling release distro or assert that it is just because it's never given *you* problems
05:23 < Psi-Jack> Ubuntu is doing /nothing/ of the sort.
05:23 < n-iCe> that's just an insult isn't it for a linux distro I mean.
05:23 < Psi-Jack> What /YOU/ run in Ubuntu does.
05:23 < n-iCe> maybe, but at start it uses almost 2GB.
05:24 < n-iCe> I want something like maybe uses 128MB of ram at boot :p
05:24 < Psi-Jack> Do you run Firefox or Chrome?
05:24 < n-iCe> Chrome.
05:24 < Psi-Jack> Do you don't want X running, eh? :p
05:24 < bls> run the exact same software on a different distro and you'll consume the same amount of RAM
05:24 < n-iCe> Chromium actually
05:24 < Psi-Jack> How many tabs?
05:24 < n-iCe> right now, 2
05:25 < Psi-Jack> How many usually?
05:25 < n-iCe> 2-4 no more
05:25 < n-iCe> and irssi
05:25 < Psi-Jack> Really? That's it? Lightweight you are.
05:25 < Pentode> are you guys counting cached ram or something?
05:25 < n-iCe> I'm sure something is wrong with my memory manage
05:25 < Psi-Jack> I'm sure that's incorrect.
05:25 < n-iCe> is not ubuntu supposed to create a ram file instead a partition? not sure it did it
05:25 < Psi-Jack> What?
05:26 < n-iCe> ok this is freezing
05:26 < Psi-Jack> Turn on the heat.
05:27 < n-iCe> I think it is, can hear the laptop noise fan
05:27 < n-iCe> 7.6GB of use now
05:27 < emu_rider> jesus
05:27 < Psi-Jack> n-iCe: Got htop?
05:28 < bls> "oops, it's a bunch of autoplaying videos and runaway tracking JS on clickbait.com"
05:28 < lupine> probably cryptomining
05:29 < Psi-Jack> cryptojacking more likely. :p
05:30 < emu_rider> On top of gnome DE probably
05:31 < Psi-Jack> n-iCe: htop?
05:35 < Dreaman> Psi-Jack: iscript poces  htop
05:35 < Dreaman> proceses
05:35 < Dreaman> script
05:35 < Psi-Jack> Porkay?
05:36 < Psi-Jack> Kion vi celas?
05:37 < supernovah> Is this latin script of some other language or something else entirely?
05:37 < Psi-Jack> supernovah: Heh, Esperanto.
05:37 < Psi-Jack> Means: "What do you mean?"
05:43 < supernovah> I read that Esperanto was mostly adopted by eccentrics
05:43 < Psi-Jack> Hence, I had to look it up, I randomly chose Esperanto as a language to use. :)
05:43 < n-iCe> Died
05:44 < Psi-Jack> n-iCe: Are you sure it wasn't swapping like mad? :)
05:44 < n-iCe> no idea
05:51 < n-iCe> Psi-Jack: gonna try arch
05:51 < jimm> don't you need to build stuff on an existing linux to start installing arch?
05:51 < Psi-Jack> Goooooood luck. You seem to be not ready for such things.
05:52 < Psi-Jack> Arch is not for newbies, for sure.
05:52 < n-iCe> We will see.
05:52 < lupine> arch is not for anyone
05:52 < lupine> well, it might have a following in the bdsm community
05:52 < jimm> have a debian netinstall in your back pocket just in case
05:52 < syborg> heh
05:52 < n-iCe> good idea jimm
05:53 < jimm> if you're going to tryto build arch, you'll need something... what do you have now?
05:54 < Psi-Jack> heh
05:54 < jimm> he has....
05:54 < jimm> gone!
05:55 < first-order> 'don't you need to build stuff on an existing linux to start installing arch?'
05:55 < first-order> No technically you don't.
05:55 < syborg> don't you just write the iso to a thumbdrive like other distros?
05:55 < Psi-Jack> A reasonable level of Linux knowledge is required to use Arch.
05:55 < jimm> so there's an image with the stuff?
05:55 < first-order> Yes you do.
05:55 < Psi-Jack> jimm: There's an archiso which has the basics.
05:55 < bls> no, you use manjaro, then you get yelled at
05:56 < syborg> there is an iso and a very thorough step by step guide
05:56 < Psi-Jack> Manjaro != arch.
05:56 < jimm> oh ok, so you can really choose whether to build up the basic stuff
05:56 < first-order> Manjaro is to Arch what Ubuntu is to Debian.
05:56 < bls> more like debbootstrap than debian
05:56 < lupine> a vampire?
05:57 < syborg> honestly installing Arch isn't hard so much as tedious, and the same for building a functional system, in my very limited experience with it.
05:57 < first-order> If you install it enough times, it ain't shit but a few hours of work.
05:57 < syborg> the arch wiki is rather nice
05:58 < lupine> probably the most valuable part of the whole project
05:58 < first-order> I won't touch Gentoo right now though.
05:58 < syborg> as someone who prefers ubuntu, I agree lupine
05:58 < first-order> Simply don't have the patience for it atm.
05:58 < syborg> I also don't like rolling releases, I am paranoid something will break every time I update such a system
05:59 < syborg> though if I were a proper wizard maybe I wouldn't be concerned, and I guess that is more the Arch crowd
05:59 < first-order> Depends on what you install.
06:00 < bls> and how much you like to beta-test and tinker
06:00 < syborg> first not at all, second a lot bls
06:00 < first-order> You can have a usable Arch installation if you don't run a shitton of pre-release software, like with any distro, or any OS for that matter.
06:01 < first-order> Eg. it would not surprise me at all if Windows Insider broke like a moody teen.
06:01 < bls> you still have to have a dilligent backup and recovery plan you break out once a day/week when you upgrade
06:01 < syborg> first-order, based on what I have heard that may be a reasonable description =P
06:01 < syborg> especially given that Win10 "stable" seems not to be terribly so lately
06:02 < first-order> Hell, supposedly 'stable' W10 breaks a lot.
06:02 < jimm> was anyone here like an hour or two and saw jim mentioning ubuntu-vg? who was the other person in that conversation?
06:02 < nekOwOseam> What are /inittab/'s limitations in sysV that makes one of systemd's claims to justification is that it has "proper" process/service supervision?
06:02 < syborg> Windows is the true BDSM distro
06:02 < first-order> LTSB if you can get your hands on it is solid though.
06:02 < first-order> At least as solid as a W7 installation.
06:02 < syborg> yeah I would love to use that for gaming, but it sounds challenging to legally acquire for an individual
06:03 < bls> nekOwOseam: inittab doesn't do any pre/post checks, it just starts something over and over
06:03 < epicmetal> LTSB still has telemetry though AFAIK
06:03 < syborg> mawk and R13ose jimm
06:04 < bls> nekOwOseam: so if you wanted "proper process/service supervision" you could layer it on top of sysv, or you can make everything use it ala systemd
06:04 < jimm> that's rght, R13ose are you here?
06:04 < jimm> syborg, thanks
06:05 < syborg> np
06:05 < n-iCe> ok, no idea if I use uefi lol
06:05 < syborg> or *no problem I guess given the stance toward abbreviations here
06:05 < n-iCe> checking /sys/firmware/efi.
06:05 < syborg> n-iCe, do you have a /boot/efi?
06:05 < first-order> That telemetry can be turned off with a regedit Hackerpcs IIRC.
06:05 < syborg> with stuff in it?
06:05 < first-order> *regedit HACK, iirc
06:05 < n-iCe> syborg: no
06:05 < first-order> *hack
06:05 < first-order> *finally
06:05 < n-iCe> I'm still using Bios then
06:05 < jimm> look at your partition table... see if you have a fat32 or ntfs partition
06:06 < epicmetal> first-order: pretty sure fully turning it off breaks Windows Update
06:06 < epicmetal> first-order: besides, when you cant trust the vendor not to turn it back on e.g. via an update...
06:06 < n-iCe> just an ext4 partition
06:09 < first-order> Since it'
06:09 < first-order> s LTSB in question here, I would assume 99.9% of the time, it's a vanilla MS ISO.
06:14 < nekOwOseam> What specific locations does tmpfiles automatically clean? Would it be similiar to using a package manager to clean cache/temporary files or does it do something different
06:23 < Sitri> nekOwOseam: it works on a list of files that packages can just freely add or remove from
06:23 < Sitri> So read the docs to find where the directory is
06:33 < nekOwOseam> Why are there so many basically copies of Arch. ArchBang, ArcoLinux and Archman are all practically the same distro
06:33 < nekOwOseam> I don't know why, of all distros, they'd choose Arch
06:35 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: because they can
06:35 < Sitri> Different default installs
06:35 < nekOwOseam> That's the problem
06:35 < nekOwOseam> to be frank
06:36 < Sitri> All three of them default to a GUI install.  Arch's philosophy is entirely different to that.
06:37 < nekOwOseam> Arch's philosophy is to claim to adhear to the KISS philosophy while doing the exact opposite
06:37 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: you love it
06:37 < Sitri> That's because the new devs have no idea what they're doing
06:38 < nekOwOseam> They really don't
06:38 < nekOwOseam> They can't handle maintaining a GUI installer
06:38 < nekOwOseam> Something the Void Linux team, which is much smaller compared to theres, are able to do
06:38 < nekOwOseam> While handling a musl edition
06:38 < epicmetal> Yeah, and their installer has limitations
06:38 < nekOwOseam> Whos
06:38 < epicmetal> Void's
06:39 < nekOwOseam> Much less limiting than most GUI installers
06:39 < epicmetal> lol
06:39 < Sitri> I miss when pacman -r worked
06:39 < Psi-Jack> nekOwOseam: It's not that they can't. It's that they don't, and don't want to. Simple.
06:40 < nekOwOseam> No, they literally said it was too much of a pain maintaining it
06:40 < dviola> and?
06:40 < dviola> step in and help
06:40 < dviola> instead of complaining here
06:40 < Psi-Jack> ^
06:40 < Psi-Jack> If that's truly even what "they" said.
06:40 < dviola> pacstrap works fine
06:40 < nekOwOseam> That's the most generic statement you can make. "Have criticisms of a program? Quit bitching and contribute it yourself"
06:41 < dviola> nekOwOseam: this is FOSS, you're supposed to help rather than complain
06:41 < Psi-Jack> In terms of it even being necessary.... It's not. Linux doesn't /need/ a GUI installer. Plain and simple.
06:41 < nekOwOseam> I am allowed to have criticisms of a project without needing to contribute to it
06:41 < Psi-Jack> nekOwOseam: If you want to sound trollish, sure.
06:42 < dviola> lol
06:42 < nekOwOseam> That's not trolling
06:42 < Psi-Jack> Maybe not trollish... But definitely egotistical, arrogant, ignorant, or any other various words out of a hat.
06:42 < syborg> dviola, Psi-Jack, that is silly. Complaining is not trolling or uncalled for within reason...
06:42 < Psi-Jack> "I don't like it", Why? "Because."
06:42 < epicmetal> I would agree with nekOwOseam that you're allowed to critique without having to contribute. However, Arch's lack of installer is a strength, not a weakness. The lack of installer is more than made up for by ArchWiki's quality documentation.
06:42 < Sitri> It's not really helpful.  And if it's directed at people actually trying to do stuff, it can be damaging.
06:43 < syborg> It's human nature, if a project can't handle people complaining it can't handle reality I'm afraid.
06:43 < epicmetal> e.g. compare https://wiki.voidlinux.eu/Install_LVM_LUKS to ArchWiki's equivalent
06:43 < epicmetal> (an install use-case that isn't supported by Void's installer)
06:43 < Psi-Jack> syborg: Heh, and yet, they've handled it well for years.
06:43 < Psi-Jack> Hell, they even survived ME!
06:43 < Psi-Jack> heh heh
06:43 < nekOwOseam> Installing it manually isn't the problem. I was just saying that the dev team is lazy
06:43 < syborg> Not a trivial feat! :-)
06:44 < syborg> ^ Psi-Jack
06:44 < Psi-Jack> Indeed.
06:44 < nekOwOseam> They never said they dropped it for more control during the install
06:44 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: you can use your own deploy method if you wish
06:44 < nekOwOseam> But because "it was a pain maintaining it"
06:44 < epicmetal> (not that I do that)
06:44 < Sitri> syborg: Sure, but that doesn't mean it isn't a time drain that could've resulted in actual improvements
06:44 < epicmetal> I'd rather quality install documentation than a limited, buggy installer
06:45 < Sitri> ^
06:45 < nekOwOseam> Like Sitri  said, the new dev team have no idea what they're doing
06:45 < nekOwOseam> epicmetal: That's not the issue I was making. In case you don't know already
06:45 < Psi-Jack> I mean. I don't use Arch because I like its minimal installer. I use Arch... Because I /want/ to.
06:45 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: perhaps restate your issue. You started with two separate issues straight off the bat
06:46 < Psi-Jack> I was given the choice how to architect my system from every step of the way. I use grub2 on my desktop since it's BIOS, I use systemd-boot with /boot all FAT32 because I use systemd-boot on the laptops.
06:46 < dviola> Psi-Jack: I do the same thing
06:46 < nekOwOseam> Like I said, if you are able to scroll up, the dev team of Arch is incompetent and lazy. Their reasoning was never to give the user more control, but because it was "too much of a pain" maintaining an installer
06:46 < epicmetal> Psi-Jack: I don't suppose you know how to keep optdepends when doing pacman -Rcus foo?
06:47 < dgs_> is hyperthreading still a thing? Trying to get it running on Oracle Linux 7.3 (basically Centos 7.3), I can see from /proc/cpuinfo that I have the 'ht' flags, and it's enable in the bios, but lscpu -e shows only one thread per CPU
06:47 < dviola> nekOwOseam: are you fnodeuser? :P
06:47 < Psi-Jack> epicmetal: I do not. I don't even know what -Rcus even does off the top.
06:47 < epicmetal> nevermind
06:47 < Psi-Jack> But.. I just got Fabio up and running replacing my HAproxy setup. :)
06:48 < dviola> nekOwOseam: if you are not, you might want to look at his emails, he was criticizing Arch at some point too
06:48 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: they've made a decision and ran with it
06:48 < dviola> nekOwOseam: he got a bit famous for doing this
06:48 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: I would say they're neither incompetent nor lazy
06:49 < [R]> dgs_: what is the output of lscpu, and what is your processor
06:49 < dviola> nekOwOseam: https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2016-August/041684.html
06:49 < dgs_> [R]:  Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2609 0 @ 2.40GHz
06:49 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: why not just pick a distro more suited to your needs?
06:49 < nekOwOseam> epicmetal: my issue was never the decision itself, but the reasoning
06:49  * epicmetal shrugs
06:49 < nekOwOseam> epicmetal: I have?
06:49 < dgs_> do you want the lscpu dump in here? or in in pastie?
06:49 < epicmetal> oh, good
06:50 < Psi-Jack> In fact.... I hate Arch. It sucks as a distro. But it's got so much damn community support for it that it just has /soooo muuuuch/ stuff that I actually.... Use..
06:50 < epicmetal> heh
06:50 < Psi-Jack> What a concept that. :)
06:50 < nekOwOseam> I'm pissed at the AUR as well
06:50 < nekOwOseam> Because I can't use it
06:50 < epicmetal> "Arch: because everything else sucks more!"
06:50 < nekOwOseam> lol
06:50 < nekOwOseam> "Arch: w-we have the AUR?"
06:50 < dgs_> [R]: https://gist.github.com/davesmylie/f3fdcc4eee383d5ac2d8c0faf4fc92e0 <-- lscpu output
06:51 < epicmetal> I try to use AUR as little as possible. Currently only have 4 packages from there
06:51 < dviola> in the 8 years of using Arch I think I used the AUR once or twice
06:51 < epicmetal> 1 of which I could drop actually
06:51 < nekOwOseam> dviola: It has a lot of programs like Qutebrowser and several not very well known DEs/WMs
06:52 < nekOwOseam> I'm upset at Debian for the lack of browser support. I'm pretty much forced to use the spyware known as Firefox
06:52 < [R]> dgs_: yeah, that doesnt seem right
06:52 < dviola> nekOwOseam: qutebrowser is in the community repo
06:52 < nekOwOseam> I've been eyeing Void for a while and even installed it at one point. A lot of packages broke after certain updates
06:52 < epicmetal> dviola: he's not on Arch
06:52 < nekOwOseam> dviola: It finally got moved there? Nice
06:52 < epicmetal> oh...
06:53 < dviola> see, they are not that lazy :P
06:53 < epicmetal> lol
06:53 < Psi-Jack> epicmetal: I have a few, but I keep it minimal as well, and what I do get from AUR, gets automatically bundled into a local repository that other systems I use sync up with and use as a custom repo.
06:53 < epicmetal> I had issues on Void
06:53 < Psi-Jack> Internally and externally.
06:53 < epicmetal> Psi-Jack: classy
06:53 < Psi-Jack> Quite. :)
06:54 < dgs_> [R]: just having a look at adding a acpi=ht option to kernel in grub - apparently that might enable it
06:54 < [R]> unnless you're turning acpi off... that shoudln't effect it
06:54 < dgs_> =/
06:54 < dgs_> well, i'm out of ideas then =p
06:55 < epicmetal> Also, I found it disturbing that the Void installer listens on SSH by default with a known username/password. I raised it with the dev but he didn't seem to agree that it was a problem.
06:55 < dviola> epicmetal: that's insane
06:55 < dviola> I would poweroff at that point
06:56 < epicmetal> dviola: I perservered for a while but then I was getting lockups during VT switch later on, so I bailed
06:56 < epicmetal> i.e. in the installed/patched system
06:56 < epicmetal> I really wanted to like that distro
06:56 < dviola> did you figure out the reason for the lockups?
06:57 < epicmetal> dviola: didn't bother, I'm not an elite kernel dev
06:57 < [R]> dgs_: oh wait actually
06:57 < [R]> dgs_: https://ark.intel.com/products/64588/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2609-10M-Cache-2_40-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI
06:57 < [R]> dgs_: it says 4 cores, 4 threads
06:57 < epicmetal> dviola: I just switched to a distro that didn't do it
06:57 < dgs_> [R]: just spotted this: Linux JAV-ORACLE01.javln.local 3.8.13-118.14.1.el7uek.x86_64 #2 SMP
06:57 < dgs_> so looks like it must be on...
06:57 < epicmetal> dviola: i.e. every other distro
06:57 < dviola> epicmetal: which kernel version was void using?
06:57 < [R]> dgs_: sounds like your cpu has no hyperthreading
06:58 < epicmetal> dviola: can't remember
06:58 < dgs_> [R]: shouldn't it be 8 threads with ht?
06:58 < dviola> epicmetal: oh maybe it's fixed then
06:58 < epicmetal> dviola: perhaps
06:58 < [R]> dgs_: the spec syas 4 cores, 4 threads
06:58 < [R]> dgs_: the spec doesnt lie
06:58 < [R]> i.e. you have no hyperthreading
06:58 < dviola> epicmetal: what hw you have?
06:58 < epicmetal> dviola: thinkpad x220
06:58 < dgs_> that's what you'd expect though if it had hyperthreading, but it was disabled
06:58 < dgs_> definitely has the ht flags on the cpu
06:59 < [R]> the flag is irreveltn
06:59 < [R]> https://ark.intel.com/products/64588/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2609-10M-Cache-2_40-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI
06:59 < [R]> read the spec
06:59 < dgs_> hmmm. though that brings something to mind from years ago about that flag not always meaning that...
06:59 < [R]> the core may be CAPABLE of hyperthreading
07:00 < epicmetal> dviola: hardly exotic...
07:00 < dviola> epicmetal: you're on which distro now?
07:00 < epicmetal> dviola: arch
07:00 < dviola> epicmetal: and it's not doing this?
07:00 < epicmetal> dviola: not at all
07:00 < epicmetal> dviola: neither was fedora
07:01 < dviola> epicmetal: then it's fixed
07:01 < dgs_> [R]:  that makes sense though (and matches what I'm actually seeing). that must be it.
07:01 < dgs_> thanks =)
07:01 < epicmetal> dviola: i was using fedora/void/arch at around the same time, the problem seemed to be void-specific
07:01 < dviola> you're using linux 4.16.9-1-ARCH?
07:01 < epicmetal> dviola: i.e. i was reinstalling a lot :)
07:01 < epicmetal> dviola: this was months ago
07:01 < dviola> I see
07:02 < epicmetal> dviola: right now i'm in the mate/compton promised land after gnome got on my nerves one too many times
07:03 < nekOwOseam> I'm in a comfy Openbox setup. I also have an FVWM setup as well
07:03 < epicmetal> mate is the xp of the linux world ;)
07:03 < dviola> hah :P
07:03 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: fvwm... that's some patience
07:03 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: that manpage is legendary
07:04 < epicmetal> dviola: yeah i feel like a total rebel ;)
07:04 < nekOwOseam> FVWM is pretty nice. It has a suprisingly active community
07:04 < nekOwOseam> surprising*
07:04 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: i want to like openbox but the lack of window snapping (1/2 screen vert) with the mouse bugs me
07:04 < dviola> epicmetal: nice
07:04 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: yeah i'd use it if i wasn't completely devoid of attention span
07:04 < epicmetal> ;)
07:05 < epicmetal> i saw an amazing fvwm setup on unixporn
07:05 < nekOwOseam> I plan on moving to fvwm completely but I'm admittedly lazy and like using Openbox's GUI tools to do stuff
07:05 < nekOwOseam> lol
07:06 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: i always get to about a week into building a DE from scratch when i just give up due to needing to get stuff odne
07:06 < epicmetal> done*
07:07 < nekOwOseam> Mate completely crapped on me once when I tried messing with panel transparency and autohide
07:07 < nekOwOseam> Hopefully it's fixed in 1.20
07:07 < nekOwOseam> (thats the latest version, right?)
07:07 < epicmetal> running 1.20.1 here
07:07 < epicmetal> it has definitely improved in the last year
07:07 < nekOwOseam> .1 off. j u s t
07:07 < epicmetal> because i evaluated it a while back and it irked me
07:07 < epicmetal> granted i'm only on day one but yeah
07:08 < epicmetal> my desktop looks like i should be running winamp winamp WINAMP
07:09 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: you need arch for that .1 bro :)
07:09 < Psi-Jack> epicmetal: It really whips the llama's ass.
07:09 < epicmetal> haha
07:09 < epicmetal> somebody got it
07:09 < Psi-Jack> Unfortunately. :)
07:10 < epicmetal> mate feels like i somehow cheated microsoft into giving me security patches for xp for life
07:10 < nekOwOseam> Debian Unstable has updated to Mate 1.20.1
07:10 < nekOwOseam> ;)
07:10 < nekOwOseam> (albeit...unstable)
07:11 < epicmetal> i'd probably be running sid if it wasn't for arch
07:11 < epicmetal> so... nice choice
07:11 < NerdyPepper> hiya
07:11 < nekOwOseam> The devs don't recommend running Sid
07:11 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: meh
07:11 < nekOwOseam> It pushes packages that are just proven to run
07:11 < epicmetal> sounds good to me lol
07:12 < epicmetal> actually i'd probably be running slackware with a vm so that i don't have to f*****g build slackbuilds as root
07:12 < NerdyPepper> i have a file path something like '/asf/asd/x.mp3' , so is there i way i can cd to '/asf/asd/'  ?
07:12 < nekOwOseam> Slackware is alright. It has no dependency management though and uses the old and crusty SysV init
07:13 < [R]> NerdyPepper: you can create a function called cd, and do some magic in there to strip out the filename, and then use 'builtin cd' to use the real cd
07:13 < NerdyPepper> hm, do you mean with something like sed?
07:14 < [R]> whatever magic you want to use
07:14 < Psi-Jack> NerdyPepper: cd /asf/asd.
07:14 < Psi-Jack> Done.
07:14 < Acheron> https://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Winamp+Classic+Skin?content=64790
07:14 < Psi-Jack> But /asf is not a standard path to be using. You shouldn't do that.
07:15 < NerdyPepper> oh yea, the path remains more or less the same, something like: /home/nerdypepper/music/changesfromhere/x.mp3
07:15 < dgs_> [R]: plot thickens. I was doing some of this on a UAT server which was meant to be identical, but as it turns out is using different CPU. So for the production machine, its got 4 x Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU   E5620  @ 2.40GHz which according to the spec sheet does support hyperthreading
07:15 < dgs_> seems to behave the same though - only 1 thread per core
07:15 < NerdyPepper> i know that the path remains the same upto music/
07:15 < dgs_> https://gist.github.com/davesmylie/26370684b569247b251387dc60622d98 <- lscpu
07:16 < Acheron> you can also use it on audacious
07:16 < NerdyPepper> (i would like to work in the changesfromhere/ dir)
07:16 < [R]> dgs_: and what if you use a sane dist?
07:16 < R13ose> jim: hi
07:16 < dgs_> [R]: i would love nothing more than to ditch Oracle Linux/Centos.... but then we get no support from oracle
07:17 < [R]> i dindt say to switch
07:17 < [R]> i said waht if
07:17 < nekOwOseam> LXQt 0.13.0 has been released
07:17 < nekOwOseam> https://blog.lxqt.org/2018/05/release-lxqt-0-13-0/
07:17 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: that desktop has some nice potential
07:17 < nekOwOseam> It really does
07:17 < dgs_> oh.... hmmm. i'm not sure...
07:18 < nekOwOseam> LXQt/LXDE are my favorite desktop environments (because they get out of my way)
07:18 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: if they keep improving and don't crap the bed like KDE/GNOME do by releasing a new major version every X years, they'll do really well
07:19 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: LXDE bugs me
07:19 < epicmetal> nekOwOseam: panel issues
07:19 < nekOwOseam> Really? Hmm
07:19 < nekOwOseam> I suppose I like them because they're built upon Openbox
07:19 < nekOwOseam> Which I'm very familiar with
07:19 < epicmetal> if you change the panel height, it doesn't flush the window buttons against the screen edge
07:20 < epicmetal> which really messes with my chi
07:24 < dStromboli> Howdy
07:36 < bullgard4> [Debian unstable] /usr/share/doc/thunderbird/changelog.Debian.gz: "thunderbird (1:52.8.0-1) unstable; urgency=high… * [514e9e8] New upstream version 52.8.0. <-- What does mean the number 514e9e8 ?
07:37 < dviola> anyone wants a CRM system?
07:37 < dviola> with all of the proprietary database
07:38 < dviola> I've got to leak it, my now former employer is a an c#*$*$ and screwed me over
07:39 < dviola> s/an/a/
07:39 < Emil> a a?
07:39 < dviola> pm me if you want it
07:44 < Sitri> bullgard4: that looks like a git abbreviated hash
07:45 < Sitri> Which is effectively a version number in itself... just it's completely non-linear
07:45 < Emil> dviola: you can't just stop like that
07:45 < Emil> just spill the beans
07:45 < dviola> Emil: haha
07:45 < dviola> I've mentioned something about it earlier
07:46 < dviola> Emil: basically, I've worked for someone for over a month, and he won't pay me for some stupid reasons
07:46 < Emil> kek
07:46 < dviola> basically, I got burned, 40 hours a week, working like a dog
07:46 < Emil> I hope you didn't give him shit
07:46 < dviola> I did, 200 commits in his git repo
07:46 < Emil> sue his ass?
07:47 < KekSi> find out how good his git skills are!?
07:47 < dviola> Emil: it turns out he's a well known scammer, he already has like 60 lawsuits and the legal system can't find him
07:47 < dviola> he operates with fake addresses and such
07:47 < Emil> sounds like thathappened
07:48 < dviola> so I might "donate" his app to someone
07:48 < Emil> doit
07:48 < Emil> or make it public
07:48 < dviola> I already told him I will
07:48 < dviola> he has 24 hours
07:48 < dviola> his customers won't be happy
07:48 < Psi-Jack> dviola: Another one?
07:49 < dviola> Psi-Jack: what do you mean?
07:50 < Psi-Jack> dviola: Didn't you have a similar-ish situation with some company involved in cryptocurrency stuff as well?
07:50 < Psi-Jack> Or is this the same one?
07:50 < dviola> Psi-Jack: ah yes
07:50 < dviola> another one, sadly
07:50 < dviola> Psi-Jack: that one ended up paying me
07:50 < Psi-Jack> So, yeah... Another one? Yeash, bad luck you seem to be having there.
07:51 < Psi-Jack> Oh good!
07:55 < dviola> I did my best and things were going ok, but I've decided to move on after I realized I was not going to get paid
07:56 < dviola> he begged me to stay but that would have been worse, more time wasted
07:56 < dviola> I might publish just my commits and nothing else
07:56 < dviola> we'll see
07:57 < Psi-Jack> dviola: I think you need to start investing in prepaid legal services. :)
07:57 < dviola> you mean, for protection?
07:57 < Psi-Jack> Yep.
07:58 < dviola> yep, definitely
07:58 < dviola> thanks for the idea :)
07:58 < Psi-Jack> And also if you're going to continue doing contract work like such, get into background checking.
07:59 < dviola> right
07:59 < dviola> thanks
07:59 < Psi-Jack> Just my $0.02. Been there, done that. Ran my own company, did my own contract work for years when I was younger. Thanks to my father, he gave me some great ideas on how to fight back on situations. ;)
07:59 < RustyJ> i know a gold mine right now..... if you can do skip tracing and background work....
07:59 < n-iCe> Ok, I'm in Archlinux.
08:00 < n-iCe> Psi-Jack: still here?
08:00 < Psi-Jack> Nope. I went to sleep.
08:01 < n-iCe> I love Arch.
08:01 < n-iCe> But, fonts looks like shit.
08:01 < Psi-Jack> Yep. That they do. :)
08:01 < n-iCe> Can't find a way to make it better under xfce4
08:01 < dviola> Psi-Jack: cool
08:01 < Psi-Jack> Install new fonts
08:02 < n-iCe> also, I installed unzip unrar 7zip and I can't open in a file manager a zip file
08:02 < epicmetal> n-iCe: the wiki has a configuration guide. Also, I like ttf-croscore for the Chrome OS core fonts
08:02 < dviola> Psi-Jack: I'll definitely talk to a lawyer tomorrow, thanks
08:02 < n-iCe> epicmetal: thanks
08:02 < dviola> ttyl guys
08:03 < autopsy> Anyone familiar with mock building a LiveDVD image using kickstart files could look at this: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/nrs6R4-JgPdyWsPxezxRNg/raw
08:03 < autopsy> <autopsy> Says there are spokes which haven't been completed
08:03 < n-iCe> epicmetal: I installed it, can't find it under fonts
08:03 < epicmetal> n-iCe: pacman -Ql ttf-croscore
08:04 < epicmetal> n-iCe: the fonts are named differently
08:04 < n-iCe> ok thanks
08:05 < n-iCe> but I still have a terminal problem with font, looks so closed to each other
08:05 < n-iCe> can't read well
08:05 < n-iCe> maybe isn't a font issue
08:05 < epicmetal> n-iCe: which terminal
08:05 < n-iCe> xfce
08:05 < epicmetal> n-iCe: which font
08:06 < n-iCe> I selected Animos I think?
08:06 < n-iCe> was listed in the command you gave me
08:06 < n-iCe> but it happens with all the fonts
08:07 < jim> R13ose, ayh?
08:08 < epicmetal> n-iCe: maybe try for a fresh user, failing that run through the font configuration guide on archwiki
08:08 < epicmetal> n-iCe: not really sure
08:08 < autopsy> jim know anything about mandatory spokes for Fedora's installer model Anaconda's kickstarts files?
08:11 < jim> autopsy, no, I don't know anything about the fedor installer model, incl how to spel it :)
08:12 < jim> debian installer, I know more about (but maybe not usefully so)
08:26 < quesker> how do you copy through an ssh tunnel?  just cat | ssh though the tunnel cat > foo?  this file is 23 gigs
08:26 < [R]> waht?
08:26 < syborg> use scp quesker
08:26 < quesker> through a tunnel?
08:27 < n-iCe> Done, all working fine.
08:27 < syborg> oh, sorry. Probably not
08:27 < n-iCe> oh no, no sound
08:28 < quesker> ssh -L 2222:otherbox:22 box      then in another terminal cat foo | ssh -p 2222 localhost cat > foo     seems right.  I guess I can test with a small file first
08:28 < n-iCe> is pavuconrol and pulseaudio ok?
08:28 < n-iCe> control
08:28 < n-iCe> says establishing connection
08:28 < quesker> just wondering if I am missing a simpler way
08:29 < quesker> can you just scp -P 2222 foo user@localhost:    ?
08:29 < syborg> n-iCe, sounds like pulseaudio isn't running?
08:29 < quesker> I guess I can just try that too heh
08:29 < n-iCe> any idea?byt why not
08:30 < syborg> n-iCe, what happens if you run "pulseaudio" in a terminal?
08:31 < n-iCe> E: [pulseaudio] pid.c: Daemon already running.
08:31 < n-iCe> E: [pulseaudio] main.c: pa_pid_file_create() failed.
08:32 < n-iCe> syborg: that
08:32 < epicmetal> Anyone know how to disable that weird minimize animation in MATE?
08:32 < epicmetal> (the black shrinking box)
08:35 < syborg> n-iCe, how about pulseaudio -vvv ?
08:36 < n-iCe> syborg: same
08:37 < syborg> really? with the -vvv? that is odd.
08:37 < n-iCe> I mean, more info, but the same error
08:38 < angelete2> hi
08:38 < syborg> that isn't an error, n-iCe that means it is running.
08:38 < syborg> the other stuff is what I wanted to see
08:39 < angelete2> I'm trying to connect my linux station into an Active Directory domain. I've already added the server into the AD forest, and i've set up samba, krb5.conf and pam, but anytime i try to login with my AD user it refuses me. Any helpl, pleas?
08:42 < quesker> I knew I was making it too complicated.  the scp -P worked fine
08:42 < syborg> n-iCe, try moving ~/.pulse to ~/.pulse.old, then restarting.
08:43 < syborg> either he followed that advice very fast or he's done, lol.
08:43 < syborg> sweet quesker.
08:44 < syborg> angelete2, is forest really a technical term in AD?
08:44 < epicmetal> syborg: yes
08:44 < quesker> ETA 7 hours 34 minutes for the 23 gig file heh
08:44 < syborg> that's kinda funny
08:44 < epicmetal> syborg: forests contain domains
08:44 < syborg> I see
09:46 < cart_man> Is ther a way I can test if a port is open from another machine using telnet?
09:46 < cart_man> say telnet 192.168.200.200:3306 ?
09:47 < nothos> cart_man no :
09:47 < nothos> telnet 192.168.200.200 3306
09:47 < Spookan> Portscan?
09:47 < cart_man> nortoh Thanks
09:48 < cart_man> Spookan Ahm is that an app on itself?
09:50 < sauvin> I believe most portscans are done with nmap
10:30 < drzacek> Hello
10:32 < drzacek> How do I find out number of cpu cores? I tried nproc and lscpu http://paste.debian.net/1025820/ and it seems like the system only see 1 cpu (1 core). But this cpu model has 4 :/ https://ark.intel.com/products/78867/Intel-Celeron-Processor-J1900-2M-Cache-up-to-2_42-GHz
10:33 < poptix> drzacek: cat /proc/cpuinfo
10:33 < MrElendig> lscpu
10:34 < MrElendig> +gives the same info as cpuinfo
10:34 < drzacek> http://paste.debian.net/1025822/
10:34 < MrElendig> is this a shared server?
10:34 < drzacek> I should add - I build the kernel myself, it may be borked
10:34 < MrElendig> not unlikely
10:34 < poptix> shrug, lscpu just reformats /proc/cpuinfo.
10:35 < KekSi> yup, it only sees 1 cpu
10:35 < drzacek> ok, so what did I do wrong and how do I make it right?
10:35 < MrElendig> forgot smp support?
10:35 < MrElendig> also, why i686?
10:35 < drzacek> why not?
10:35 < MrElendig> because it is 2018?
10:35 < drzacek> needed 32bit system
10:36 < MrElendig> you can run 32bit code on a 64bit system
10:36 < zioper> why not just use htop or nmon and see cores as graphs ?
10:36 < MrElendig> 64bit is faster, but at a slight memory useage cost
10:36 < drzacek> MrElendig, there are some issues with the programs I need to run on it
10:37 < drzacek> someone programmed the pointers as 32bit int variables
10:37 < MrElendig> that works fine with lib32
10:38 < drzacek> MrElendig, it does, but multiarch borks the system in my opinion
10:38 < MrElendig> how so?
10:38 < drzacek> debian has some problems with i386 dependencies on 64bit systems related to SDL2
10:39 < drzacek> there are some workarounds but it makes whole thing way more complicated as it should be
10:39 < cart_man> I can not seem to log into MySQL from outside the local machine. I tried even using telnet to log on like -> " telnet 192.168.xxx.xxx 3306 " and it refuses to connect. If I try with mySQL-WOrkbench it just refuses to connect even with the right credentials. The Mysql server is latest version and OS UBUNTU 17. Is there something I must know about either OS or MYSQL?
10:39 < MrElendig> that is just debian
10:39 < drzacek> soooo SMP? Need to check this
10:40 < MrElendig> drzacek: boot some stock kernel and see if it detects all 4 cores
10:40 < drzacek> aye
10:42 < bazhang> cart_man, which version 17, there are two
10:43 < MrElendig> cart_man: you should *never* allow telnet access to mysql
10:43 < MrElendig> as a sidenote
10:43 < cart_man> I was just trying to test the open port
10:44 < bazhang> cart_man, one is end of life, the other end of life in a month plus
10:44 < MrElendig> read the server logs
10:44 < cart_man> bazhang How cna I see the version?
10:44 < MrElendig> cart_man: lsb or read ubuntu-release
10:44 < cart_man> uname ?
10:44 < MrElendig> cat /etc/*-release
10:45 < cart_man> 17.10
10:45 < drzacek> MrElendig, yea, it shows 4 now. Back to recompile
10:45 < cart_man> bazhang ^^
10:45 < bazhang> that is no longer supported in just over a month from now
10:46 < cart_man> bazhang Well I am ok with going to another OS ...this has been a nightmare for sure
10:46 < cart_man> I mean UBuntu version of course
10:46 < cart_man> Anyway back to my question
10:46 < bazhang> 18.04 is five years support
10:46 < cart_man> Has there bene any changes to the networking side of things when it comes to 17.10 ?
10:46 < MrElendig> cart_man: as said, read the server logs and check firewall settings
10:46 < cart_man> MrElendig I tried that... I opened ports etc ...
10:46 < cart_man> not even telnet can connect
10:47 < cart_man> : /
10:49 < DLange> cart_man: /etc/mysql/my.cnf  configure it to listen to a network IP (and know what you are doing security-wise)
10:52 < MrElendig> use tls as a minimum
10:52 < MrElendig> selfsigned is fine if you pin the certs
10:53 < Dagmar> There's a tool called 'stunnel' that's handy for this
10:55 < bazhang> Universal SSL tunnel for network daemon Dagmar that?
10:55 < bazhang> stunnel4 in ubuntu
10:56 < Dagmar> That's the one
10:56 < bazhang> nice call
10:56 < Dagmar> I've used it on production stuff in a number of cases.
10:57 < Dagmar> It's especially handy in the case of things like mysql
10:57 < bazhang> ok
10:57 < Dagmar> The "know what you are doing security-wise" for that was probably understated
10:57 < MrElendig> mariadb supports tls
10:58 < bazhang> cart_man, ^
10:58 < MrElendig> for mysql it is either free or pay to play depending on version
10:58 < Dagmar> Either way you also don't want just anyone being able to connect
10:58 < Dagmar> That's a pretty large codebase and difficult to audit, plus *MANY* people write sql sh*tcode
10:59 < Dagmar> It's not without reason that they started also distributing a _script_ to undo most of the defaults
11:11 < sauvin> mariadb also sports subqueries that WORK.
11:25 < mrjpaxton> Hey, does anyone who uses CUPS can help me figure this out? Whenever I try to go click on the admin page, and add a printer, it always comes up with: "Unauthorized. Enter your username and password or the root username and password to access this page. If you are using Kerberos authentication, make sure you have a valid Kerberos ticket."
11:26 < mrjpaxton> I've tried everything, I've tried disabling auth by setting AuthType to none, setting Order deny,allow and Order allow,deny, and all this stuff. If it were up to me, I'd skip using the CUPS Web interface entirely. Anyone just use CUPS and printing utilities just from the command line?
11:27 < djph> you gotta login with an account that either (a) has sudo privs; or (b) is root.
11:27 < mrjpaxton> No, here's the thing. I've set my user group to lpadmin, even logged out and logged in... N O T H I N G W O R K S.
11:27 < mrjpaxton> I feel like there's a bug with CUPS for some reason...
11:28 < nekOwOseam> are there any distros other than cloveros that comes with FVWM preinstalled?
11:28 < bazhang> distrowatch.com check it nekOwOseam
11:29 < nekOwOseam> bazhang: i have
11:29 < nekOwOseam> that doesnt show preinstalled wm's/de's
11:29 < djph> mrjpaxton: did I say 'lpadmin'?
11:29 < nekOwOseam> just supported ones
11:29 < bazhang> yeah it does
11:29 < nekOwOseam> (mostly)
11:29 < nekOwOseam> no it doesn't
11:30 < nekOwOseam> look at Debian's
11:30 < bazhang> I just checked and found it
11:30 < nekOwOseam> you can't select openbox during the install
11:30 < nekOwOseam> and yet it says FVWM is one of the window managers
11:30 < mrjpaxton> Maybe someone can look at my cupsd.conf?
11:30 < mrjpaxton> I just want CUPS Web Interface to work. It's not working for me, therefore it's useless...
11:31 < mrjpaxton> I've been troubleshooting for about 5 hours.
11:33 < mrjpaxton> The worst part is: I'm trying to set it up with over a network, but I have a bad feeling that when I plug in the USB cable, I'm not going to be able to print any more easily.
11:33 < djph> did you do what cups told you to do?
11:33 < mrjpaxton> I'm thinking about just trying a Live CD by now.
11:34 < djph> it literally is that easy - login as someone with sudo, or if your distro doesn't sudo, root.
11:34 < djph> (note may complain about http vs. https)
11:34 < mrjpaxton> I mean, I installed CUPS on Debian. I'm not going to run my browser as root for CUPS.
11:34 < mrjpaxton> And went to 127.0.0.1:631
11:35 < djph> I never said run the BROWSER as root
11:35 < djph> LOGIN. TO. THE. CUPS. ADMIN. PAGE.
11:35 < mrjpaxton> And going to Administration now, it's still giving me this unauthorized shit.
11:35 < mrjpaxton> I'm not making this up! Lol.
11:35 < mrjpaxton> I just wanna print something...
11:36 < mrjpaxton> Alright fine... Ubuntu MATE Live CD it is, then...
11:37 < mrjpaxton> Maybe it'll work then....
11:37 < djph> it'll still ask you to login as someone with sudo privs / root.
11:37 < djph> gaaa, why are people calling me?!
11:55 < dStromboli> howdy
11:59 < Slimmy> So, there is this rootkit called reptile. It works (on my machine) and it's fine. But, it can completely hide a folder (/reptile). How is this possible? How can a folder be "hidden"? How to restore it? How can I find those hidden files again?
11:59 < Slimmy> I don't want info on the rootkit. Just the hidding files part
12:01 < MrElendig> trace the calls it does / read the (machine) code and see how it does it
12:01 < rpgio> Slimmy: it probably puts a '.' before the filenames to hide the files -- use ls -a to see hidden files
12:01 < MrElendig> or, since it is a rootkit, it just intercepts the syscall
12:01 < MrElendig> or patches ls etc
12:10 < Slimmy> I can't find it with ls -al. There is legit nothing. It's hidden like, totally hidden. That's why I'm baffled. Any leads?
12:12 < Slimmy> MrEledig: What do you mean?
12:12 < Slimmy> Do you mean that it targets the ls command itself?
12:12 < lopid> lsattr
12:13 < rpgio> yes it can totally do that
12:13 < Slimmy> oh that's smart actually
12:13 < Slimmy> lopid: Why would I use lsattr?
12:16 < geirha> or possibly libc
12:17 < lopid> to see the directory
12:17 < ananke> Slimmy: why do you assume that 'ls' has not been compromised?
12:18 < Slimmy> ananke: I don't! It just never crossed my mind. How can I check it?
12:18 < Slimmy> geirha: Not install and not in the dependency tree
12:18 < Slimmy> installed*
12:18 < ananke> Slimmy: for starters, stop assuming that anything on the system is safe. boot from a live media
12:19 < Slimmy> ananke: Alright thanks
12:29 < lopid> you might want to check in a mirror too, make sure what you see is you
12:32 < MrElendig> hm we had both ajax and hercules
12:34 < MrElendig> we put the old rockets to good use when we disbanded the system though
12:34 < MrElendig> we used them as sounding rockets up at andøya
12:34 < MrElendig> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And%C3%B8ya_Space_Center
12:36 < kr_217> hello all,I have created a custom debian package.It get installed with some binaries and some config file.But when remove the my debian package I want to remove binaries only and not config file from system.How can do that?
12:39 < MrElendig> kr_217: there is an array you can use to define config files that dpkg will keep
12:39 < rpgio> is 'dpkg -r' removing the config file -- isn't dpkg is supposed to leave the config file unless you tell it to 'purge' -'P'
12:40 < MrElendig> rpgio: you have to tell it what the config files are
12:40 < lupine> maybe it's not correctly registered as a conffile
12:40 < MrElendig> when you create the package
12:40 < rpgio> ok, from dpkg man "(Conffiles are configuration
12:40 < rpgio>               files that are listed in the DEBIAN/conffiles control file)"
12:40 < MrElendig> create a conffiles file and list them in there
12:40  * rpgio thumbs up
13:14 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
13:17 < thebigj> I am trying to figure out the batter (not best) way to generate small may be 6-8 character lenght random number.
13:17 < thebigj> Initial search, I landed on https://docs.python.org/3/library/secrets.html#secrets.token_hex
13:17 < thebigj> This module is dependent on /dev/urandom
13:18 < thebigj> I read https://linux.die.net/man/4/urandom and found it is using system noise as an entrophy to generate the random numbers.
13:18 < thebigj> We are using Docker deployed at Digital Ocean server which I think will be a Virtual Machine.
13:19 < thebigj> In that case, how my GNU/Linux kernel will sufficiantly generate the enthropy pool?
13:19 < thebigj> Thanks!
13:25 < epicmetal> Anyone running MATE on a X220?
13:25 < epicmetal> The TrackPad and mate-panel are being weird
13:46 < afidegnum> what's the best command line torrent  to use?\
13:51 < rpgio> afidegnum: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/list_of_applications#Console_3
13:51 < sud0x3> afidegnum: Define best? more features, scriptable ....
13:53 < sud0x3> I like transmission as you can run it as a server then connect with cli or gtk client
13:53 < sud0x3> or a web interface
13:58 < mnemon> thebigj: it will generate infinity of pseudorandom things from the available entropy on the VM, you can look at the /dev/urandom specs if you want the specifics.
14:02 < revel> I think random data generation is a bit of a problem on VMs since there's not really fed a lot of noise?
14:03 < mnemon> it's mostly problem only if you want to generate something like large number of ssh keys with a newly created VM
14:04 < thebigj> mnemon: Thanks for sharing your reply. https://blogs.gentoo.org/marecki/2018/01/23/randomness-in-virtual-machines/
14:04 < thebigj> I am reading above message.
14:05 < thebigj> The referenced paper is long, but I have gone through the blog post. It does mention that the sources are limited if we are running VM.
14:06 < thebigj> What virtulization technology does the cloud provider uses?
14:08 < mnemon> DO is fully on kvm last I checked
14:08 < thebigj> mnemon: Okay.
14:08 < mnemon> but probably worth checking with them :P
14:08 < thebigj> mnemon: Okay.
14:12 < R13ose> Hi jim
14:13 < mawk> hi
14:16 < alexey-nemovff> what is KVM?
14:16 < Psi-Jack> Kernel Virtual Machine, Keyboard Video Mouse
14:18 < mnemon> alexey-nemovff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine
14:18 < alexey-nemovff> xD
14:22 < alexey-nemovff> thank you mnemon
14:24 < emulator12345> hi
14:24 < emulator12345> i want to ask a question about dd
14:24 < swoc> Hello!
14:24 < alexey-nemovff> hi
14:24 < rpgio> ask!
14:25 < swoc> I just upgraded to ubuntu 18.04 / 64bit, Gnome. Running on AMX fx6300 and AMD RX460. I have constant screen flickering and flashing horizontal lines.
14:25 < swoc> apt update && apt upgrade is done.
14:25 < Psi-Jack> AMX? heh.
14:25 < swoc> s/AMX/AMD
14:25 < Psi-Jack> Did you do the apt full-upgrade?
14:25 < swoc> running on 4.15.0-22-generic kernel
14:25 < swoc> No I did not do that.
14:26 < Psi-Jack> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
14:26 < Psi-Jack> This is important to follow very carefully.
14:26 < emulator12345> is it possible for a process to detect if some process read its /proc/pid/mem?
14:26 < emulator12345> i use dd to read a process' mem, and then that process terminated
14:27 < swoc> I was on 16.04 LTS and upgraded to 18.04 LTS
14:27 < emulator12345> it seems there's a anti-reading-mem technique
14:27 < Psi-Jack> Which follows under the "Current releases" https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Upgrades
14:28 < swoc> Psi-Jack: I could swear that's the one I was following.
14:28 < Psi-Jack> Obviously... not.
14:30 < conall> Hi. I was wondering, hypothetically what would it take to essentially turn 'root' user into a plain old user. Would it just take removing the various lines from the pam.d config files?
14:30 < Psi-Jack> root is /not/ a plain old user.
14:30 < Psi-Jack> It never will be.
14:32 < swoc> Psi-Jack: I understand you have issues and like trolling.
14:32 < Psi-Jack> That is incorrect.
14:32 < mawk> who can tell me about the hardware I need for 6LoWPAN ?
14:32 < swoc> I'm not here so you would solve my problem, just looking for the right way to go / look
14:32 < Psi-Jack> And I have provided that.
14:32 < mawk> I understand it's built on the same thing ZigBee is built on, but "ZigBee antennas" already include ICs programmed for zigbee, not 6LoWPAN
14:33 < mawk> should I buy the plain radio transceiver module and implement it over raw 801.15.4 ?
14:33 < Psi-Jack> mawk: ##hardware? ##networking?
14:33 < mawk> :(
14:33 < mawk> I don't know them
14:34 < mawk> and I know you
14:34 < Psi-Jack> This question has 0% to do with Linux.
14:34 < candidat> i love you :)
14:34 < conall> Yes, I realise. But hypothetically is there a way to do so much damage to a (lets say centos) system that would leave root without permissions to fix it. Or is it that uid=0 is magic
14:34 < mawk> there's a small bit of linux in my steup
14:34 < candidat> i love you nerds of gay :)
14:34 < mawk> the 6LoWPAN border router will be on a linux
14:34 < Psi-Jack> mawk: "use of linux" != subject matter being Linux.
14:36 < mawk> conall: if you want a certain application to be running as a powerless root, you can do it
14:36 < candidat> oh gay nerds of the world unite ! :P
14:38 < mawk> conall: but you can't do it for the whole system
14:38 < mawk> or at least not for every single bit of it
14:38 < conall> mawk: Thanks. How would one even go about that. Im just trying to learn about how permissions on linux work. Would one have to nuke the pam.d config?
14:38 < mawk> it'll still be possible under PID 1 to have a powerless root, but it's totally useless
14:39 < mawk> no, it's a per-process thing
14:39 < conall> ah
14:39 < candidat> conall then use a virtual machine for testing
14:39 < mawk> well I guess you can tell PAM to do that but it's just an indirect way
14:39 < mawk> the core thing is process capabilities
14:40 < conall> So root it essentially an all-powerfull god, who is not like a "regular" user in terms of permissions etc
14:40 < rpgio> indeed
14:41 < mawk> not really conall
14:41 < mawk> the fact that you can cook up a powerless root mitigates your claim
14:41 < emulator12345> how come a process can detect that i read its' /proc/pid/mem?
14:41 < promach_> What do you guys think about https://bugs.chromium.org/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=1528 ?
14:41 < conall> I see. I dont really understand why though. Surely there should be somewhere that says "root can do anything", and I thought that would be in the pam.d
14:41 < promach_>  What does "0: 00000000000000000000000000000000 in 61944 cycles (hitrate: 0.051660%)" mean ?
14:42 < mawk> conall: every process running as root has a set of things he can do, that's called capabilites, type man 7 capabilities to look at them
14:42 < mawk> but indeed with the correct capabilities, root is all powerful
14:43 < mawk> for instance he can bypass file permissions using CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE
14:46 < conall> mawk, thanks for the info. Appreciate the help
14:46 < candidat> can you hack to root using a local user account ?
14:46 < mawk> if you find a bug in linux yeah
14:46 < mawk> or if you guess correctly the root password
14:46 < mawk> the entrypoints to root-land are setuid programs, for instance sudo or su
14:47 < mawk> but also ping, mount, etc, if you find bug in them you could be root too
14:48 < candidat> mawk i understand. you should not give user account to anyone :)
14:48 < candidat> you dont know
14:48 < mawk> yeah
14:49 < candidat> one day , i wrote here that linux can t be hacked. And a few days later i saw an article on google news somebody breach the linux system blablabla
14:49 < candidat> lol
14:49 < mawk> yeah there have been a few bugs
14:49 < mawk> like that madcow thing
14:49 < candidat> somebody got angry here
14:49 < candidat> madcow ?
14:49 < ananke> candidat: anybody with half a clue would have told you that statements such as 'linux can't be hacked' are dumb
14:50 < sud0x3> candidat: If someone has physical access then the only then all bets are off
14:51 < candidat> ohh i understand
14:52 < emulator12345> how come a process can detect that i read its' /proc/pid/mem?
14:52 < candidat> ananke sud0x3 it s open source so everybody sees the code is it why it  s dumb ?
14:54 < sud0x3> candidat: The code may be available but very few people will read code and when they do they usually do so with a vested interest
14:54 < conall> emulator12345: unotifywait can do that kind of think I believe
14:54 < ananke> candidat: nope. it's just a very ignorant and shortsighted absolute statement that is hardly applicable to anything in the real world
14:54 < sud0x3> even then many coders will pass over the same problem over and over before it is noticed, just the natre of development
14:55 < conall> emulator12345: Its basically a kernel module that listens for when files are accessed
14:55 < conall> emulator12345: *inotifywait
14:55 < conall> my bad
14:56 < BluesKaj> bad is nor a noun, mistake is the correct word
14:56 < BluesKaj> nor=not
14:58 < sud0x3> BluesKaj: Rather pedantic, you realise "my bad" is a commonly used phrase
14:59 < Smilex> is exit_group() supposed to kill threads that are currently blocking on a read() call?
14:59 < BluesKaj> sud0x3, yes, but that doesn't make it correct...too much of that kind of so called cool talk going around
14:59 < rymate1234> anyone have an idea on how to get the sc-controller onscreen keyboard to show up on the plasma 5 lock screen?
15:00 < conall> BluesKaj: so called should be so-called
15:00 < BluesKaj> sud0x3, it's not pedantic , another word used incorrectly
15:00 < sud0x3> BluesKaj: I agree but i dont think this is the place to enforce language
15:01 < BluesKaj> it is for those who don't use English as their first language , it's confusing for them
15:01 < sud0x3> BluesKaj: Do explain? overly concerned with minute details or formalisms
15:01 < conall> I disagree. If someone is learning the language, they should also become familiar with how it is used commonly
15:01 < BluesKaj> it's not minute detail \, it's correct English
15:01 < sud0x3> BluesKaj: No it isnt if they are making any effort to learn english they will be watching films and tv with subtiles in which they will hear things like this all the time
15:02 < candidat> sud0x3 i see :)
15:02 < conall> They will also hear "my bad" quite a bit.
15:02 < conall> Should they not know what that means?
15:02 < Hejkki> there is / there are ;)
15:02 < sud0x3> candidat: What do you see, the sea :) ofcourse
15:02 < conall> Also, not a place to enforce language considering you are also making gramatical errors
15:02 < candidat> ananke sorry i m noob :)
15:02 < BluesKaj> sud0x3, learning Ebglish from TV is worst method one can imagine
15:03 < kaizushi> its obvious to me all our thoughts are in english, so its the most efficient to use
15:03 < BluesKaj> kaizushi, not really i also speak 2 other lahguages
15:03 < candidat> sud0x3 hahaha i see your point of view :)
15:03 < kaizushi> lies
15:03 < sud0x3> BluesKaj: Im not debating whther its correct, just what i have seen in the real world
15:03 < candidat> lies
15:04 < candidat> true lies
15:04 < BluesKaj> langauges even tho my  typing skills are lacking :-0
15:04 < sud0x3> BluesKaj: I only know english so i cant comment on how effective that is
15:04 < conall> !ops BluesKaj being really pedantic about proper use of English. Complained that "my bad" should have been "my mistake"
15:04 < emulator12345> conall: thanks! is it possible to block that?
15:05 < Psi-Jack> conall: Well... He's correct. "my bad" is not the same thing as an actual apology that people seem to keep thinking it is. :p
15:05 < rymate1234> I thought my bad ==  my mistake
15:05 < Psi-Jack> Seems to be more of a Millenial twitch more than anything. :p
15:05 < sud0x3> Its funny I had my gf and her friend round the other day and her friend said something which was supposedly in english and i was literally like waht just came out of her mouth
15:05 < candidat> hey sud0x3 how long does it takes to be a skilled linux admin ?
15:05 < sud0x3> conall: no need for that
15:06 < revel> candidat: 6 whole hours.
15:06 < candidat> revel really ??
15:06 < sud0x3> candidat: im not the person to ask
15:06 < BluesKaj> conall, learn the definition of pedantic  first
15:06 < Psi-Jack> That too. :)
15:06 < rymate1234> candidat, an infinite length of time
15:06 < rymate1234> you never stop learning
15:06 < candidat> sud0x3 true
15:06 < revel> ^
15:06 < conall> My bad is a common way to say "my mistake", which is, to me, and acknowledgement
15:07 < conall> BluesKaj: "excessively concerned with minor details or rules; overscrupulous". I literally ust googled it
15:07 < djph> s/and/an/
15:07 < zapotah> its funny how some kids think you can be an expert in some defined amount of time
15:07 < conall> just*
15:07 < sud0x3> conall: i think we can get off that topic now
15:07 < revel> New technologies keep popping up to replace old cruft, you probably want to keep track of all of that
15:07 < BluesKaj> to you maybe , but many others may not understand t
15:07 < candidat> rymate1234 should you pass certification to be allowed to be an admin ?
15:07 < djph> zapotah: generally you can.  it's just usually longer than they've been alive.
15:08 < rymate1234> "allowed"
15:08 < zapotah> djph: hah, yeah, "give it thirty years"
15:08 < rymate1234> sure it'll give you more chance of getting a job requiring whatever cert you get
15:08 < mawk> conall: http://paste.suut.in/JRP3LhyU.c
15:08 < rymate1234> but experience is what gets you jobs, not a cert
15:08 < emulator12345> conall: is it possible to block inotifywait?
15:08 < zapotah> i mean, sure you might be an expert on something in that amount of time for sure even if you were the laziest person on earth
15:08 < sud0x3> candidat: linux changes over time, wasnt so long ago the first thing you may be doing is learning how to write cron jobs, now most distributions use systemd in which you would use the timers
15:08 < emulator12345> conall: i want to silently read a process' /proc/pid/mem
15:08 < zapotah> not that your expertise on the matter would be relevant to any degree at that point though :3
15:09 < conall> emulator12345: hmmm, not sure. But for that particular file I am not sure if inotifywait would have been used. What are you seeing?
15:09 < sud0x3> rymate1234: Depends on your location, certs mean a lot where I live, if you dont have the cert then you dont get a phone call nevermind an interview
15:09 < djph> zapotah: drinking booze, maybe.
15:10 < mawk> conall: also you can use the exact same program if you want a non-root program (and all its children) to never become root or ever gain privileges
15:10 < zapotah> djph: i know quite a few drunk who are not experts at drinking :3
15:10 < zapotah> drunks*
15:10 < zapotah> so i would have to dispute that one as well
15:10 < djph> experts at painting the toilet?
15:10 < zapotah> hah
15:10 < mawk> you can try sudo lameroot id; sudo ./lameroot touch /a; lameroot sudo echo ok
15:11 < LissajousPattern> GM ##linux
15:11 < candidat> rymate1234 allowed is dumb
15:11 < rymate1234> what
15:12 < emulator12345> conall: whenever I use DD to read the /proc/pid/mem, the process terminates immediately
15:12 < candidat> rymate1234 so setting up a domain and a mail server ect ... make you get experience ?
15:12 < candidat> rymate1234 sorry i just repeated your words
15:12 < emulator12345> conall: the didn't terminate previoulsy, but it does after a recent update
15:12 < emulator12345> conall: the game
15:13 < candidat> sud0x3 yes it s has changed so much from linux 10 years ago to the present linux distributions
15:13 < candidat> afk
15:13 < conall> emulator12345: can you tell me what you are doing? Why do you need to do that?
15:15 < emulator12345> conall: i am trying the read the positions of enemies of LoL like mobile game
15:16 < candidat> do you guys know the Teaching compagny ? it s a collection of great university courses
15:16 < slojanko> Hello, anyone here uses C and could help me a bit?
15:17 < slojanko> I've got the following bash command: find . -samefile "file" -printf "%f ", which I can execute in C with fork and exec
15:17 < conall> emulator12345: I would recommend using gdb for something like that. Have never used it or done anything else like that so cant really help, sorry
15:17 < slojanko> Is there a way to do this without forking a process (and perhaps avoiding the find command) in C?
15:25 < emulator12345> is it possible to bypass inotifywait?
15:31 < pankaj_> Is their any good resource on device management on linux? I just do not want to use linux but to explore more and more about it. I want to understand the imner working about linux. Please suggest some resources. Many of the resources that inhave searched focys on user comfort ;but i want to explore it and understand each step.
15:31 < Psi-Jack> emulator12345: That is for you to learn on your own, since your purpose is to play said game. :p
15:33 < JimBuntu> pankaj_, http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
15:33 < swensson> Hey guys, quick question. When I use htop / top to see my running processes, I got like 5 apache2 -k start running and like 10-15 /usr/sbin/mysqld running, anyone know why so many? :O
15:34 < ayjay_t> servers run "worker pools"- processes ready to accept incoming connections, swensson
15:34 < pankaj_> Yes, I am doing the same now. Just some packages for installation and I will work on my first lfs build.
15:34 < ayjay_t> it's to handle sudden volume. you can probably adjust them down with config files
15:34 < swensson> ayjay_t Ah okey, thanks!
15:35 < JimBuntu> pankaj_, you can check out the other books in the same series, some dive a bit deeper
15:36 < pankaj_> JimBuntu: Many of the books on linux just specify some theory of the operation but do not specify practical application of the packages that how do they work. Please give some advice because i want to learn more and more about linux and not just use it for my comfort.
15:37 < pankaj_> JimBuntu: Can you please link some of them that you think are really important.
15:37 < JimBuntu> pankaj_, Oh, I *think* I understand now, please confirm... are you looking to learn how Linux (the kernel) operates on bare metal... or do you want to learn details about specific packages?
15:39 < zapotah> i usually found it disheartening that how little the students that came into college knew about how anything works
15:39 < zapotah> you cant start with linux or windows since these people dont even understand how electricity works
15:40 < zapotah> the pre-college institutions fail more and more these days since this is shit you _should_ know when you enter college
15:40 < pankaj_> zapotah: yes i also feel so sorry about the culture of education and lack of learning and interest in students. Now it is all about money only
15:40 < JimBuntu> zapotah, we are approaching the point where there is too much to learn, and we don't start learning those things early enough... at least that's how I view it.
15:41 < zapotah> JimBuntu: i agree
15:41 < zapotah> doesnt change facts though
15:42 < zapotah> then these people think that theres some magical shortcut to becoming an expert in anything
15:42 < pankaj_> JimBuntu: First I want to attack on packagea and expeeiment with them to know each of them and then i will attack the kernel side. I will do as much as i can to understand. But any advice if you think can be started now, i will take it
15:42 < JimBuntu> pankaj_, Ok, in this case, please check out the core utilities... gnu.org is a good start
15:42 < zapotah> then they are "hurt" when their ignorance is pointed out
15:43 < zapotah> bah
15:43 < pankaj_> zapotah: You are a good teacher. I am your student now.
15:44 < pankaj_> JimBuntu: ok
15:44 < zapotah> im not a teacher, not anymore
15:44 < pankaj_> zapotah: so,.......
15:44 < pankaj_> JimBuntu: ok.
15:44 < JimBuntu> no senpai for you
15:44 < sud0x3> pankaj_: I learnt a lot installing arch linux
15:46 < pankaj_> sud0x3: I also used arch till now but this curiousness of learning more and more is still present.
15:47 < pankaj_> sud0x3: But I think i am unable to find some good tutorials on experimenting with packages in linux or to understand different terms in linux
15:47 < sud0x3> pankaj_: There so many areas you could choose to learn in linux its hard to suggest anything
15:48 < sud0x3> pankaj_: I would stay away from tutorials, i personally feel most learn from failure and or repitition and tutorials dont encourage either
15:48 < pankaj_> sud0x3: Sometimes a resource is hard to read or other times it has too many technical words involved which i have not studied.
15:48  * JimBuntu had a new CTO a while back, first order of business... everyone must build their own kernels from source for their workstations, with only the modules built-in required for daily use... next, LFS for daily use... next, LFS/Buildroot for production
15:49 < pankaj_> sudo0x3: what approach do you apply for expanding your learning curve?
15:49 < sud0x3> Yeah thats just the nature of this field, i just reasearch terms i dont know when i see them
15:49 < BluesKaj> tutorials have their place, they've help[ed me a lot over the years, so i don't dismiss them out of hand , not everyone on linux is a coder
15:49 < pankaj_> sud0x3: I strongly agree with that
15:53 < pankaj_> sud0x3: What approach do you take to learn about linux more and more?
15:54 < sud0x3> BluesKaj: They do, I agree they do help but for me many tutorials just give you the minimum information to get a task done. Which is great but if you want to learn copying and pasting commands isnt going to reinforce anything for me.
15:56 < pankaj_> sud0x3: Hello, Please reply'
15:56 < sud0x3> pankaj_: I dont really have a learning plan
15:56 < BluesKaj> sud0x3, sometimes copying and pasting commands from tutorials get users out of sticky situations
15:57 < pankaj_> BluesKaj
15:57 < sud0x3> BluesKaj: Yes i know but i dont learn from that and pankaj_ is asking for advice on learning
15:57 < JimBuntu> That's the thing, tutorials are meant to give instruction, not really teach you about the WHY so much.
15:58 < pankaj_> sud0x3: Your any advice will be helpful for me.\
15:58 < sud0x3> JimBuntu: Yeah that is why i suggest people steer clear when they want to learn
15:58 < BluesKaj> manpages can be terribly arcane and difficult to interpret for ordinary home users like me
15:59 < sud0x3> pankaj_: Do you have anything you want to do on linux that you dont know about?
16:00 < sud0x3> BluesKaj: Yeah just the fact they are in the terminal is a huge put off for many comming to linux, there are copies of most manpages online or you can covert them to pdf and such though
16:00 < pankaj_> sud0x3: Yes, I want to work on linux like old days when it was not easy to do some stuff. Like the device management by myself.=
16:00 < djph> perhaps set your sights a little lower, and finish LFS first
16:01 < sud0x3> pankaj_: Anything more specific?
16:01 < pankaj_> djph|: OK\
16:03 < BluesKaj> sud0x3, i use the terminal probably as much as any other experienced linux users and I didn't lean much from man pages. I keep a text ofile of important cli commands as a reference
16:03 < sud0x3> pankaj_: I suppose my workflow is when i recognise i dont know something i make a note of it, this will start as a headline in a texfile, then when i learn more i go back to said file and expand on the knowledge, if i read any articles i try to take notes and put them under the same headline
16:04 < widp> man pages are really useful once you get used to them.
16:04 < widp> beats googling aimlessly.
16:04 < sud0x3> BluesKaj: I do the same, or search my cli history
16:04 < Yourock17> man pages as in manual pages??
16:04 < xata> Hello. How do i force configure script to use not my system-wide libtool, but located at some prefix?
16:04 < sud0x3> Yourock17: Yes
16:05 < coldice> Hi, having permissions issues, root can RW,  but as user and member of group I can't RW, only R, have to give other permission RW to RW as user, what is wrong here? Details https://paste.linux.community/view/ff7c4dce
16:06 < pankaj_> sud0x3: OK. Thanks for good advice. I think I change topics very often rather then fully understanding them and remain jumping from one to another. I will try to remove this weakness and focus fully on one and then jmove to another.
16:07 < sud0x3> pankaj_: Thats why i make a point of making notes, then next time your on the topic you search your notes and not the web.
16:09 < rpgio> pankaj_: you should take a look at the LPIC1 exam objectives
16:10 < Psi-Jack> coldice: Is said user's primary group "media?" or a secondary group?
16:10 < Psi-Jack> Looks secondary.
16:11 < Psi-Jack> coldice: So, did you "sg" to media? I'm guessing not. :)
16:14 < coldice> Psi-Jack: so newgrp actually works, why can't I RW with secondary group?
16:15 < Psi-Jack> Because it wasn't active.
16:15 < coldice> as in, I forgot to reload my shell?
16:15 < Psi-Jack> No.
16:15 < Psi-Jack> As in you didn't sg it.
16:15 < Psi-Jack> You get 1 active user id, and 1 active group id at a time.
16:16 < Psi-Jack> su switched uid, sg switches gid.
16:21 < sebsebseb> hi
16:24 < n-iCe> Psi-Jack: hi
16:25 < Psi-Jack> Hola senior!
16:25 < jhodrien> What's wrong with newgrp rather than sg?
16:25 < n-iCe> Psi-Jack: next time you should totally recommend arch
16:25 < n-iCe> I just love it.
16:25 < n-iCe> is so fast.
16:25 < Psi-Jack> Will never happen.
16:25 < Psi-Jack> Arch sucks and nobody should use it. :)
16:25 < Acheron> oh, my!
16:26 < n-iCe> one more thing, I need to write loadkeys la-latin1 everytime I boot in console, how can I do this perm?
16:26 < n-iCe> .xinitrc ?
16:26 < Acheron> people are usually pretty high on Arch
16:26 < n-iCe> can I add it there? like exec startxfce4
16:26 < azarus> I learned a lot while I was on Arch, but I moved on
16:27 < Acheron> what did you move on to?
16:27 < azarus> several things, none of them employing systemd
16:27 < coldice> Psi-Jack: Thanks, but said that media is the owner, how would a service user that has no shell write to the folder when media is not primary group?
16:27 < Acheron> ahh
16:27 < Acheron> one of those no systemd at any cost
16:27 < azarus> sue me
16:29 < Psi-Jack> azarus: My lawyers will be contacting you shortly.
16:29 < rumpel> can you imagine the people back then that couldn't use systemd? mind=blown
16:29 < azarus> BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT (or otherwise bastardize) TRADITIONAL INIT
16:29  * azarus hides
16:30 < Acheron> thats the great thing about Linux, freedom!
16:30 < Psi-Jack> coldice: Make said "service user' switch groups. Like normal.
16:31 < Acheron> no more forced actions from central control (M$)
16:31 < prussian> you sure?
16:38 < Dr_Coke> rindolf !!
16:38 < Dr_Coke> What's up man
16:38 < Dr_Coke> triceratux jim
16:38 < Dr_Coke> BluesKaj
16:38 < Dr_Coke> How are we all
16:38 < n-iCe> Good!
16:38 < Dr_Coke> nice
16:38 < post-factum> better
16:38 < Psi-Jack> Functional.
16:39 < rindolf> Dr_Coke: hi
16:39 < Dr_Coke> lol
16:39 < sebsebseb> oh rindolf is active in here
16:39 < Dr_Coke> rindolf how's manjaro?
16:39 < rindolf> Dr_Coke: i am refactoring code
16:39 < rindolf> Dr_Coke: mageia
16:39 < Dr_Coke> oh mageia
16:39 < Dr_Coke> What code?
16:40 < BluesKaj> Hi Dr_Coke
16:41 < Dr_Coke> BluesKaj How's kde
16:41 < Dr_Coke> Psi-Jack I went back to cinnamon with linux mint
16:42 < Psi-Jack> Sorry to hear that.
16:42 < Dr_Coke> lol
16:42 < Armand> Dr_Coke: Best choice
16:42 < Dr_Coke> Armand I also reinstalled macos hope apple doesn't give me trouble
16:43 < Armand> lol
16:43 < rindolf> Dr_Coke: cpan dists
16:46 < arooni> how come i'm seeing  May 22 09:42:07 LilArooni kernel: [  339.164034] [UFW BLOCK] IN=wlan0 OUT= MAC=64:80:99:18:ab:48:84:d6:d0:14:8d:8a:08:00 SRC=192.168.1.159 DST=192.168.1.101 LEN=60 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=1708 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=46774 DPT=22 WINDOW=65535 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0 ;; when i have this rule in ufw status::  22                         ALLOW       192.168.1.159
16:48 < Dr_Coke> rindolf Psi-Jack everyone https://www.techradar.com/news/htc-u12-plus-specs-and-price-accidentally-confirmed
16:48 < n-iCe> is the speed MB/sec moving files a software thing?
16:48 < n-iCe> or just hardware
16:49 < Psi-Jack> wut?
16:49 < n-iCe> yeah, when you move a file to other location, is the speed a software or harware thing
16:49 < Psi-Jack> Both.
16:50 < redrabbit> why n-iCe ?
16:50 < n-iCe> Thing is I'm moving to my arch linux a 10GB folder size, in ubuntu speend went up to 20MB and here can't even reach 8MB/s
16:50 < n-iCe> speed*
16:50 < n-iCe> maybe I'm missing a package?
16:50 < n-iCe> same cable to transfer*
16:50 < azarus> n-iCe: well, a file rename is in most cases almost instantaneous (that's a local move)
16:50 < n-iCe> not rename
16:50 < n-iCe> moving
16:51 < Psi-Jack> moving = renaming :p
16:51 < azarus> ^^ true
16:51 < n-iCe> copying then, sorry
16:51 < Psi-Jack> copying != moving
16:51 < azarus> from where to where?
16:51 < n-iCe> external disk to arch
16:51 < azarus> ah, well then you're I/O bound
16:51 < n-iCe> is /home actually
16:51 < n-iCe> what's that
16:52 < azarus> bound by the speed of your I/O
16:52 < n-iCe> and what should I install to make all faster
16:52 < azarus> pacman -S magic
16:52 < n-iCe> no no, you did not get it, in ubuntu it goes to 20MB/s in archlinux is ony 8MB/S
16:52 < mices> i'm trying to run my first bash script, a series of commands to complete remove mysql, when i press enter i get a prompt back right away, is the script running?
16:54 < hxy> mices: run the script with -x to see what's happening, e.g. `bash -x myscript.sh`
16:55 < mices> hxy too late now right?
16:56 < mices> is there a log i can tail -f to see progress
17:00 < hxy> depends entirely on what was in your script
17:07 < luxio> In the terminal when I type `vlc <link>`, it opens VLC but the output from VLC goes to the terminal. How do I start VLC from the terminal but separate?
17:10 < drzacek> Hi. I can't seem to be able to reboot my system. sudo reboot /shutdown now doesn't do anything - it just jumps to new line, I can Ctrl+C it and still use it
17:10 < candidat> sometime i think getting computer skills is useless
17:10 < Psi-Jack> luxio: Run it with your regular menu system.
17:11 < zapotah> candidat: youre absolutely right, gardening, woodworking, a number of skills are far more useful in many ways.
17:11 < zapotah> much more interesting too
17:13 < candidat> zapotah: yes exactly ! i m getting bored of computing.
17:14 < candidat> zapotah: it s like always the same thing, always the same crazy people you meet online. Haters ect...
17:15 < candidat> i think facebook makes me depress and it s not secure
17:17 < zapotah> candidat: go out more, its a big world, lots of stuff to do
17:19 < Dagmar> Try actually programming
17:20 < Dagmar> "Computing" is a skill defined by people who don't know what they're doing in the first place
17:22 < djph> Dagmar: but only when they get their certificate in computering from the google bing.
17:23 < candidat> zapotah how you doing ?
17:25 < autopsy> candidat, how are you today?
17:27 < llitzor> hi there veryone
17:27 < llitzor> I am looking for a tiny linux distro so that I can save up space and everything
17:28 < ananke> llitzor: alpine linux
17:28 < rumpel> llitzor, damn small linux
17:28 < llitzor> I have tried http://tinycorelinux.net/ but after I set it up and I install my packages it fails the next boot on my virtual box, also I have looked into: http://tinycorelinux.net/ but it is a virus: https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/80a1558a95231fe4fb6e7f6b609d2f10e75b86fb69220d3d49d9a9c3ece44ab3/detection
17:28 < renso> hi
17:29 < renso> good morning, any can tellme a program that can be used to show a picture, and with the keyboard, can go to another pic (like menus), go and back like navigate betweens menus ??? thanks in advance
17:29 < llitzor> so sorry I have looked into: http://www.slitaz.org/en/ but it is a virus:
17:29 < llitzor> https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/80a1558a95231fe4fb6e7f6b609d2f10e75b86fb69220d3d49d9a9c3ece44ab3/detection
17:29 < Yardanico> llitzor hahaha, virustotal?
17:29 < llitzor> not tinycorelinux
17:29 < Yardanico> for slitaz?
17:29 < sud0x3> llitzor: what are you scanning the iso?
17:30 < llitzor> sud0x3: yeah just I wanted to give it a try why?
17:30 < Yardanico> you should also scan linux kernel, it can contain viruses too
17:30 < luxio> I'm looking for a FOSS RSS reader that when I double click on a YouTube item in the feed, I can configure it to run `vlc <youtube link>`. Anyone know software that can do that?
17:30 < sud0x3> llitzor: Explains why your getting false positives
17:31 < llitzor> Yardanico: actually I don't usually scan iso files, but my antivirus gave me a few alerts telling me it was not safe, so I throw it into vorustotal, which gaveme this
17:31 < Yardanico> a lot of antiviruses used on virustotal are not that good
17:31 < llitzor> I don't think this to be a false positive
17:31 < sud0x3> llitzor: note to self av is broken, like ten years ago, mostly stil based on signature detection
17:31 < renso> test, any readme ?
17:31 < llitzor> sophos has never done me wrong
17:32 < Psi-Jack> Except, they have.
17:32 < rumpel> llitzor, it's not about right or wrong. It's about probabilities.
17:32 < Psi-Jack> They conned you into paying for anti-virus software. :)
17:32 < llitzor> sophos is not a bitch in my opinion
17:33 < sud0x3> llitzor: I didnt even look at the links but i imagine like i have seen in the past it will be picking up windows malware, on linux?! alarm bells
17:33 < Yardanico> well, I've never dreamed about scanning linux distro .iso file with any av software
17:34 < sud0x3> the best av is common sense
17:34 < Yardanico> exactly, that's why I don't use an av
17:34 < rumpel> Yardanico, because it doesn't make a lot of sense? Especially because there's usually a compressed(!) file system on it? Which antivirus usually has no clue how to deal with that?
17:34 < Yardanico> (even while on windows :D )
17:34 < sud0x3> Yardanico: i noticed false results when still using windows a long time ago and downloading and trying out linux iso's
17:34 < Psi-Jack> Well, the "best" A/V on Windows these days, is Microsoft's own Securit yEssentials.
17:35 < Psi-Jack> AV even not A/V. ;)
17:35 < sud0x3> Psi-Jack: Id agree, anytime a windows user ask me this is the advice i give them
17:35 < syborg> linux is a virus because it might convince you to remove windows and stop paying for AV software
17:35 < candidat> autopsy: i m sick
17:36 < syborg> Threat category: existential
17:36 < ylikowski> what would john mcafee recommend...
17:36 < syborg> poor AV software
17:36 < Psi-Jack> Other software has horrible dodgy hacks that tap into things they shouldn't be, /interpretting/ from that and causing more vulnerabilities.
17:36 < sud0x3> av companies relied on the same techniques for so long they will soon be overtaken by network endpoint protection system, well in the business sector anyway
17:37 < Psi-Jack> ylikowski: John McAfee is a proven moron. LOL
17:37 < sud0x3> and a bad person if the allegations were true
17:38 < ylikowski> Psi-Jack: I know, but just installed some new Fujitsu Windowsd workstations for a client and they came preinstalled with good old John's software, I was amazed
17:38 < Psi-Jack> Indeed.
17:38 < SuperSeriousCat> Speaking of McAfee... https://diegorod.github.io/WillMcAfeeEatHisOwnDick/
17:38 < Psi-Jack> ylikowski: Windows? Get a rope!
17:38 < clamport> Does anyone know if the oom killer can kill system processes?
17:38 < ylikowski> Psi-Jack: client gets what clien wants
17:39 < Psi-Jack> clamport: What do you think "system processes" are?
17:39 < fightthewalrus> is there a way that I can open a .msg file in Linux?
17:39 < ylikowski> Psi-Jack: and I use Windows too, I'm not tied to any one op
17:39 < ylikowski> os
17:39 < clamport> ie, network services, etc
17:39 < sud0x3> ylikowski: some firms and governments still have mcaffe contracts but its just a tick box for covering arses
17:39 < fightthewalrus> or extract an attachment that it contains?
17:40 < ylikowski> sud0x3: John is still making some money I assume
17:40 < sud0x3> ylikowski: i would say so
17:40 < ylikowski> sud0x3: how nice for him
17:42 < sud0x3> ylikowski: I doubt it will last much longer, i might be wrong but as i said i think the security is moving to the endpoint, and it has been proven time and time again that the main issue here is uneducated users.
17:42 < ylikowski> sud0x3: agreed
17:43 < sud0x3> the UX in some email and browsers could be changed to educate users but i dont see it happening
17:44 < sud0x3> i remeber ms outlook would give you a warning if you were sent a spoofed email, i was told recently (not confirmed) that the new fancy office365 does not notify the use at all. So in some respects we are going backwords
17:46 < djph> sud0x3: betcha it's some idiot thinking "people can't spoof email anymore(tm)"
17:49 < sud0x3> djph: Wouldnt suprise me if it was, but probably more likely that it just wasnt taken into consideration at all
17:50 < sud0x3> have not checked though so dont take my word for it
17:52  * Psi-Jack gets a rope and ties ylikowski up to Linux. "There, now you are tied to one OS." he grins.
17:52 < zapotah> its up to the domain policy iirc
17:53 < zapotah> the default is to put shit in spam
17:53 < zapotah> just fixed a system of ours NOC botched since it was sending mail as the users themselves instead of the system
17:53 < zapotah> system address*
17:54 < sud0x3> zapotah: Should really be default when they are pitching this stuff to small business and up
17:54 < zapotah> it should be
17:54 < zapotah> iirc
17:55 < zapotah> but i havent used o365 to any real extent
17:55 < sud0x3> no me neither
17:59 < Psi-Jack> Nextcloud + Collabora or OnlyOffice > o365
18:00 < Tahlwyn> LaTeX > o365
18:00 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. Not so sure about that one, really.
18:00 < Psi-Jack> :p
18:02 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: afaik collabora doesnt do email
18:02 < Psi-Jack> Nextcloud does, though
18:03 < zapotah> it does?
18:03 < Psi-Jack> Uhh, yeah.
18:03 < jhodrien> O365 nearly does IMAP.
18:03 < Psi-Jack> Even have your choice. Nextcloud native Mail client app, or Rainloop plugin app.
18:03 < Psi-Jack> Or both, simaltaneously.
18:04 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: bah, not exactly "mainline"
18:04 < Psi-Jack> wut?
18:04 < zapotah> also
18:04 < zapotah> its only the client portion
18:04 < zapotah> thats the easy part
18:05 < Psi-Jack> Uh huh. Office 365 doesn't exactly give you a magic server, too. :p
18:05 < sud0x3> Hopefully the various government who have shown interest in nextcloud will promote growth and features
18:05 < Psi-Jack> It too, is just a client.
18:06 < DevAntoi_> AnrDaemon: I'm talking about the composer.json: { "require": "php": ">=7.0" }
18:08 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: indeed it is
18:08 < zapotah> and theres a million clients out there
18:08 < zapotah> propably literally
18:09 < zapotah> but theres very few options for the MTA part
18:09 < zapotah> since that
18:09 < zapotah> that is actually hard
18:09 < zapotah> i used zimbra for aeons
18:09 < zapotah> but when i transitioned from the ipv4 world, it became rather obvious that it hasnt been developed in over a decade
18:09 < candidat> MTA = mail transfert agent ?
18:10 < zapotah> dual-stack broke the whole thing down
18:10 < zapotah> moved to kolab
18:10 < zapotah> which seemed nice and maintained
18:11 < zapotah> but something major has happened there and the whole thing has become 100% opaque
18:24 < Psi-Jack> bleh. Zimbra was okay, but heavy handed.
18:24 < Psi-Jack> zapotah: Yeah... I'm on Kolab as well, and seeing the same problems of the future.
18:24 < Psi-Jack> I'm already pre-planning and salting out a deployment replacement solution.
18:25 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: you and me both mate
18:25 < Psi-Jack> Going  back to maintaining my own server setup.
18:25 < zapotah> havent found another good project though
18:25 < Psi-Jack> With nextcloud heading up the front-end that Kolab used to do. :)
18:26 < zapotah> i used to do all the same components that kolab does by hand, but thats seriously a lot of work
18:26 < zapotah> one of the major problems is an imap solution that does SNI or such
18:27 < zapotah> since its actually doable
18:27 < zapotah> but afaik hasnt been implemented
18:27 < zapotah> the second is a non-imap access method
18:27 < zapotah> https-based
18:27 < Psi-Jack> Dovecot's come a long way.
18:28 < zapotah> yeah
18:28 < zapotah> but honestly
18:28 < Psi-Jack> Finally in fact, Dovecot may actually be surpassing Cyrus-IMAPD, except on some of the later features that Kolab's fork of cyrus-imapd hasn't even bothered with.
18:29 < zapotah> https://i.imgur.com/HhLdXZV.gif
18:29 < zapotah> the sad fact is that activesync became the more or less defacto http-based method of accessing mail
18:30 < zapotah> imap would be fine if it was SNI or domain aware
18:30 < Psi-Jack> Eww, no... No it hasn't.
18:30 < zapotah> but that afaik still hasnt been done
18:30 < Psi-Jack> IMAP is the defacto standard.
18:30 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: dont kid yourself, activesync is where its at with http-based methods
18:30 < Psi-Jack> No, no it's not.,
18:31 < zapotah> so you know of something else that is widely deployed or used?
18:31 < Psi-Jack> Yes.IMAP.
18:31 < zapotah> DAV sure as hell isnt that
18:31 < zapotah> no
18:31 < zapotah> its not the same to any degree
18:31 < zapotah> whatsoever
18:32 < zapotah> as far as IMAP is not SNI-aware and SNI-based proxyable, its not an option to any of the other methods
18:32 < zapotah> IP-address per domain for ssl is the 90s
18:33 < badsekter> how to make an alias for a command?
18:33 < zapotah> and telling oneself otherwise is bullshitting themselves
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Dovecot supports TLS SNI.
18:34 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: can it proxy imap?
18:34 < Psi-Jack> It /is/ IMAP. :p
18:34 < zapotah> i know
18:34 < Armand> Why would you ever *need* to ?
18:34 < sud0x3> badsekter: what shell are you using?
18:34 < zapotah> Armand: due to requirements of where a particular store needs to reside
18:34 < zapotah> now
18:35 < Armand> That doesn't seem like a logical assertion.
18:35 < zapotah> i realize that having the storage reside elsewhere with the daemon handling where its stored per-domain might be sufficient in some cases
18:35 < Armand> But... ehh
18:35 < Psi-Jack> zapotah: You're not making sense. What you speak of has nothing to do with SNUI.
18:36 < Psi-Jack> SNI*
18:36 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: it does, directing users access based on SNI to different backends altogether _is_ sometimes a requirement
18:36 < Psi-Jack> For what you're referring to, you could use something like fabio or haproxy to handle TLS SNI proxying for TCP.
18:36 < Armand> That's not an SNI thing.
18:37 < hexnewbie> So, cups doesn't see any printers until I enter root password, stop it, stop browsed, start them again. I hate systemd socket activation so much.
18:37 < badsekter> sud0x3: bash
18:37 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: unfortunately haproxy cannot terminate ssl and forward the inner application protocol as-is
18:37 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: since the ssl part is often tied to the application functionality
18:38 < zapotah> as it quite honestly should be
18:38 < Isky> If you're terminating ssl at the proxy, the app behind it shouldn't be written to be SSL
18:38 < Psi-Jack> No, it has nothing to do with application functionality
18:38 < zapotah> it cannot, afaik, just look at the SNI and then proxy it L4 elsewhere
18:38 < sud0x3> badsekter: alias l="ls -la"
18:38 < zapotah> if it can, thats good news
18:39 < Isky> or, a better way to put that: I'd reserve etrmination for things I can't use SSL with, and then let nothing but the proxy ever, ever talk to it.
18:39 < zapotah> Isky: i agree
18:39 < Dagmar> That's generally the recommended way
18:39 < Isky> When I started work where I am now, the entire ERP was just http. and the db wasn't encrypted. T_T
18:40 < Psi-Jack> zapotah: And yes, haproxy can do exactly what I said earlier with inspect-delay set.
18:40 < zapotah> Isky: however, being able to determine the intended backend based on unencrypted info is something id expect a proxy to do
18:40 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: ill need to look into that
18:40 < Isky> "It's too hard to make work with ssl" ... "but you're using haproxy!"
18:40 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: since with 1.7, this was not doable
18:40 < Psi-Jack> zapotah: Fabio can do it do.
18:40 < Psi-Jack> 1.7 it was.
18:40 < Psi-Jack> Is
18:41 < zapotah> i know it cant do arbitrary socket proxying based on SNI alone
18:41 < fightthewalrus> does anybody know a good way to view .msg email files in Linux? Can Thunderbird open them?
18:41 < zapotah> but perhaps im mistaken and will need to visit that topic
18:41 < zapotah> revisit*
18:41 < fightthewalrus> I have an attachment inside it that I need to extract
18:42 < silva> hello, When I run the df command it gets stuck. In the messages says "INFO: task df:37894 blocked for more than 120 seconds" but I don't undestant the trace. Can someone translate it to me please? https://pastebin.com/wKShBBzh
18:42 < RusAlex> fightthewalrus: mutt can
18:42 < Isky> fightthewalrus: there's a tool called msgconvert
18:43 < fightthewalrus> RusAlex: mutt can? Now I'm listening. Do I just `mutt file.msg`?
18:43 < RusAlex> at least try
18:43 < fightthewalrus> Isky: thanks for the tip, I'll look it up
18:43 < Isky> fightthewalrus: iirc, it's a script that uses some perl libs. It's been a while since I've needed it.
18:43 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: so you claim that haproxy can reverse-proxy a tcp connection anywhere based on sni information in the request alone?
18:44 < fightthewalrus> RusAlex: yeah, that command makes mutt think I want to compose a message to file.msg, but I haven't checked the man pages yet
18:45 < RusAlex> i might be wrong
18:45 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: or otherwise, dovecot can act as a frontend reverse-proxy for IMAP?
18:47 < Isky> fightthewalrus: if you want a GUI solution, you can get MSGViewer.. it's java. you run it and then drag the message onto it. (I find that kludgy, but it works)
18:47 < banisterfiend> hi, in what situations would i want to create my own chain in iptables?
18:47 < zapotah> i mean, i visited this subject some half a year ago and couldnt find a proper solution with the software currently out there
18:47 < fightthewalrus> Isky: maybe it's no longer in the debian repos, but searching for it brought me to the library itself. Maybe I can find the script elsewhere in the internet
18:47 < Psi-Jack> Haproxy can.
18:47 < Isky> fightthewalrus: http://www.matijs.net/software/msgconv/ and http://sourceforge.net/projects/msgviewer/
18:47 < Isky> fightthewalrus: they're older, but probably still work
18:47 < fightthewalrus> Isky: thanks, I'll give them a try
18:48 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: 1.7 can do L4 proxying based on TLS SNI?
18:48 < zapotah> that is news to me
18:48 < zapotah> i havent had time to test 1.8 unfortunately
18:49 < Psi-Jack> 1.7 can do a lot of things.
18:49 < zapotah> well, ill take your word for it and revisit this sooner rather than later
18:50 < zapotah> need to figure out what to do with amavis, postfix, postgrey and other of the mta components though...
18:50 < Psi-Jack> That said, i replaced haproxy 1.7.x with fabio last night.
18:51 < jim> banisterfiend, maybe because you want to document something in a particular way, or because you want that chain as a target
18:51 < banisterfiend> jim what do you mean by 'want that chain as a target' ?
18:51 < Isky> I replaced haproxy with a set of F5 BIGIPs a few years ago, so I'm a bit rusty. If I need something really simple, I just use nginx.
18:52 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: its a real pity that _something_ is happening with kolab that no-one can explain
18:52 < fightthewalrus> Isky: sorry, quick question, msgconvert's project page states that it converts msg into mbox... can I open this format using the standard tools in Linux?
18:52 < Psi-Jack> lol
18:52 < Psi-Jack> Yeah
18:52 < jim> banisterfiend, I believe that's what happens when you make a chain... now it has a name, and can be a target
18:52 < zapotah> but dunno, they re-invented the wheel instead of contributing upstream to cyrus or dovecot
18:52 < Isky> fightthewalrus: thunderbird
18:53 < zapotah> with guam
18:53 < banisterfiend> jim oh interesting but what does 'target' mean in this context?
18:53 < Psi-Jack> zapotah: Worse they forked cyrus-imapd and didn’t rename it.
18:53 < zapotah> yeah
18:53 < zapotah> and syncroton
18:53 < zapotah> ive got the feeling that someone key died
18:53 < zapotah> really
18:53 < Isky> fightthewalrus: or mutt, actually.
18:54 < Psi-Jack> No.. They just want money
18:54 < zapotah> could be
18:54 < jim> thing with rules that you can start running (and comparing the attributes of the packet with)
18:54 < Psi-Jack> Not could be, thats what it is.
18:54 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: but it would be a dumbass move
18:54 < Isky> fightthewalrus: mutt -f <file>   .. actually, try that on the .msg file (you need the -f to tell it you're opening a file)
18:54 < bls> has all mutt activity moved to neomutt?
18:54 < innovate41> guys how does top work ?  how do they calculate the  % memory and % cpu usage ?   is that a call to the linux kernel api or a real time calculation?
18:54 < fightthewalrus> Isky: oh I see. Turns out it's a flat text file with attachments (presumably?) as b64 encoded
18:54 < Psi-Jack> zapotah: I agree.. But that’s what they announced already basically.
18:54 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: since they would be lying to themselves most of all about the pricing and competitiveness of their solution
18:54 < fightthewalrus> Isky: aah so *that* was my missing option
18:55 < fightthewalrus> thanks I'll try it regardless
18:55 < Isky> fightthewalrus: Yeah. I just realized you guys didn't include the -f..
18:55 < Isky> fightthewalrus: I'm fighting with Oracle Cloud and decided to take a break and come here, but .. my brain's still on the crap that is OCI.
18:55 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: could be someone new took the wheel and got high on something
18:55 < zapotah> or just someone dumb
18:56 < Psi-Jack> zapotah: Basically Winterfell and up you will hve to package it yourself if you want to use it . They will no longer make packages,
18:56 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: dunno, real shame
18:56 < fightthewalrus> Isky: no worries, man... you already helped me quite a bit :)
18:57 < fightthewalrus> Isky: and good luck with whatever it is that you're fighting
18:57 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: i feel like the repo was forked somewhere private
18:57 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: due to someone making a dumbass decision
18:57 < Psi-Jack> heh
18:57 < Isky> fightthewalrus: that their service is an utter piece of junk. T_T
18:57 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: honestly, none of it makes any sense
18:57 < Psi-Jack> That’s not. it either. They simply already announced all of what I have said. you’re speculating while I’m telling facts,
18:58 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: i mustve missed the channel where this was discussed
18:58 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: got a link?
18:58 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: or was this on the mailing lists?
18:59 < Psi-Jack> I don’t recall where it was, but it was in my news and I was angered and sadenned at the same time
18:59 < shalok> If I do `sudo dd if=/dev/xvdc of=/dev/null bs=256k skip=102 count=1 iflag=dsync` it takes 2ms the first time and 0.2ms on subsequent times. How do I disable caching? I want to see 2ms everytime.
19:00 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: its a real pity since _someone_ is shitting themselves about how lucrative their stuff can ever be
19:01 < bls> shalok: drop caches between invocations
19:01 < jim> shalok, then you just read it
19:01 < shalok> bls: How do I drop caches?
19:01 < jelly> echo 3 into /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
19:01 < oleo> #!/bin/sh
19:01 < oleo> sudo sh -c 'echo 1 >/proc/sys/vm/drop_caches'
19:01 < oleo> sudo sh -c 'echo 2 >/proc/sys/vm/drop_caches'
19:01 < oleo> sudo sh -c 'echo 3 >/proc/sys/vm/drop_caches'
19:01 < oleo> sudo sh -c 'sync && free'
19:01 < bls> https://www.tecmint.com/clear-ram-memory-cache-buffer-and-swap-space-on-linux/
19:02 < jelly> oleo: why 1 and 2 first?
19:02 < oleo> no idea
19:02 < jim> oleo, here's a better way: you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command by running "anArbitraryCommand | nc termbin.com 9999", and to include error messages, "anArbitraryCommand 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999"
19:02 < jim> so you can cat somefile | nc termbin...
19:02 < jelly> 3 does everything
19:02 < oleo> yah sorry
19:03 < oleo> needless to have 2 and 1
19:03 < jelly> and why sync after and not before
19:03 < oleo> ??
19:03 < jelly> exactly
19:03 < oleo> both ?
19:03 < oleo> sync before and after ?
19:03 < bls> copy pasta!
19:03 < jelly> what's the goal doing that sync?
19:04 < oleo> to make the fs aware ?
19:04 < jelly> I can see _some_ sense doing it before, so some of the dirty pages become less dirty and more droppable
19:05 < jelly> what's fs have to do with anything
19:05 < oleo> hmmm
19:06 < jelly> but what does it accomplish afterwards escapes me.  Only if you run the script multiple times
19:06 < bls> and why just sync? for full on goodness you need sync;sync;sync :P
19:07 < candidat> pikachuuuuuuuu
19:08 < wr> if have two users, user1 and user2 on a group how can i assign read write permissions on those users on the group?
19:09 < bls> wr: you don't assign permissions to users, you assign them to files/directories
19:09 < jelly> groups on unix don't work that way
19:10 < shalok> jelly: I wrote 3 in drop_caches, now I'm done with testing and I want to write 0 in again, but I'm getting 'echo: write error: Invalid argument'
19:10 < wr> bls, sorry, i mean a file.txt to a group that has user1 and user2
19:10 < oleo> ah
19:10 < Isky> wr: man chmod and chown
19:10 < phogg> wr: Are you asking "How can I change the group that a file is in?"?
19:10 < jelly> shalok: it's a trigger action, there's no 0 to write
19:11 < Psi-Jack> jelly: unless of course you implement MAC. Hehe
19:11 < oleo> chown group.group file.txt ?
19:11 < jelly> shalok: once you do 3, the kernel does its thing and continues normally, it does not change state forever
19:11 < shalok> jelly: Ah, so the fact you cat even 'read' that file is a bit pointless?
19:11 < phogg> oleo: the left hand side of the . is a user, not a group. Also, use : not .
19:12 < Psi-Jack> Or RBAC I guess too.
19:12 < jelly> Psi-Jack: then you don't have unix groups any more, you have something else on top
19:12 < Psi-Jack> You still do.
19:12 < phogg> I implemented MAC once. Looked too much like candy, went back to real UNIX.
19:12 < phogg> these are the jokes, take 'em or leave 'em
19:13 < Psi-Jack> Heh
19:13 < Isky> I think I'm gonna leave 'em. :P
19:13 < jelly> Psi-Jack: sure, once you add weird functionality that changes core behaviour you still have core behaviour, only it's not the same any more it's different
19:13 < wr> bls, phogg on /mnt/regular have a txt file and wanna set on ile permissions read write on group regular
19:13 < wr> *file
19:14 < phogg> wr: If you want to change the permissions on the file that relate to a group use chmod: chmod g+rw /path/to/file
19:14 < phogg> wr: if you want to change the group that owns the file to something else use chgrp: chgrp newgroupname /path/to/file
19:14 < Psi-Jack> jelly: No that part doesn't change. Just how to access them changes because of the rules and / or access controls implemented.
19:15 < Psi-Jack> Roles / ACLs (from MAC/RBAC)
19:15 < bls> and if you just added a user to said group, know that group permissions are set at login time, so your change may not have taken an effect yet
19:15 < jelly> Psi-Jack: that's what I said, it doesn't change except it does and things don't work like unix any more.  You can insist on your wording, but then I can insist that wording is dumb.  Agree to disagree?
19:15 < bls> or group membership
19:16 < phogg> bls: more like at process spawn time
19:16 < Psi-Jack> Linux isn't Unix.
19:17 < jelly> and if you'd wrote that right away I wouldn't have anything to rant
19:18 < qrvpzvb> is there any way nowadays to get good graphics in a VM ?
19:18 < qrvpzvb> I mean, hardware acceleration
19:18 < wr> phogg, thanks
19:18 < jelly> qrvpzvb: with well chosen VM hosts and hardware, you can pass-through the whole GPU card into the VM
19:19 < wr> phogg, but on the chgrp newgroupname /path, i want it to be just to the users of the group
19:19 < wr> phogg, is it same command?
19:19 < jelly> qrvpzvb: of course, the host cannot use it any more then
19:19 < qrvpzvb> jelly: yeah, I'd like to get the best of both worlds if possible
19:20 < qrvpzvb> meaning, not passthrough
19:20 < phogg> wr: Your question makes no sense.
19:20 < qrvpzvb> I remember there're some "virtual drivers", to get opengl in a VM
19:21 < phogg> wr: A file is in one group (unless you use ACLs). Users in that group can use the file's group permission bits to access the file.
19:21 < ylikowski> wr: create another group just for the two users?
19:22 < phogg> wr: If you change the group that a file is in using chgrp then any user which is in the group that you changed it to can now access the file in the manner that the file's group permission bits describe. E.g. if the permission bits are 640 then the 4 is the permissions available to users who are members of the group that the file is in (in this case read permission).
19:22 < qrvpzvb> can GPUs be hotplugged?
19:22 < phogg> qrvpzvb: No, except in rare circumstances.
19:23 < wr> ylikowski, on this group i have just two users
19:23 < qrvpzvb> say that you run some type 1 hypervisor on a PC with a GPU
19:23 < qrvpzvb> could you "pass that around" the various VMs?
19:23 < ylikowski> wr: well no problems then
19:26 < wr> phogg, on /mnt/regular folder have to create a new file named regular.txt then ensure that the file has read/write permission only for members of the regular group
19:27 < bls> wr: you've been give the exact commands to use to achieve that. are they not working or is something else a problem?
19:27 < widp> can I resize a windows disk partition from linux?
19:27 < widp> This is the C: drive
19:27 < ayecee> who's going to stop you?
19:27 < phogg> wr: What permissions should the owner of that file have?
19:27 < bls> widp: why would you even consider trying?
19:28 < widp> bls: the alternative is to reinstall windows and setup grub properly again.
19:28 < phogg> widp: of course you *can*. Do you expect Windows to boot afterwards?
19:28 < widp> I was hoping it would.
19:28 < bls> so it's a windows disk that's not a windows disk?
19:28 < widp> or atleast looking for some way to make that possible.
19:28 < phogg> widp: there's a chance that Windows will not boot later if you screw it up badly enough. I don't think it's a serious concern these days, but I also have not done this in years.
19:29 < kurahaupo> widp: I least tried that in 2007. Windows failed to boot afterwards, so I stopped using it. Haven't looked back.
19:29 < wr> bls, was just in doubt on articulation of this
19:29 < wr> phogg, read and write only
19:29 < phogg> you would need to size the ntfs partition down first and have that succeed. That may not work at all.
19:30 < phogg> after that sizing the partition down is trivial and as long as the start point didn't change the windows bootloader should find it OK
19:30 < phogg> wr: chmod u=rw,g=rw,o= /path/to/file
19:30 < widp> Is the bootloader on a "windows reserved partition"?
19:30 < phogg> wr: you can also do it numerically: chmod 660 /path/to/file
19:31 < bls> it doesn't make sense that the fear is that doing this from linux will make windows unbootable, but doing it from windows would require installing it
19:31 < phogg> wr: either one grants read/write to the owner of the file, read/write to anyone in the group that the file is in, and nothing to anyone else
19:31 < widp> I'll have to try, it's not like I'll lose anything anyway, since the alternative is more tedious.
19:32 < phogg> widp: good luck, come back and report the outcome for posterity
19:32 < widp> Ye
19:42 < wr> thanks all
19:42 < wr> ttg
19:42 < tdoirc> what could be using memory (according to free, /proc/meminfo) besides processes, buffer and cache? or rather something that's not a buffer/cache, and doesn't show up in ps -A?
19:43 < tdoirc> I have something leaking 1MB every 5-10 minutes, but can't find what it is (on openwrt, but it's still linux, so...)
19:45 < kurahaupo> On my host the wifi supplicant slowly chews up memory
19:45 < ayecee> tdoirc: could you show us what you're seeing
19:46 < kurahaupo> tdoirc: shm segments, tmpfs,
19:47 < morenoh149> is linux.die.net any good?
19:47 < ayecee> good for what
19:47 < kurahaupo> Apart from the ads, the man pages seem ok
19:48 < morenoh149> couldn't find systemd manpage on it, but I did find it on freedesktop.org
19:49 < morenoh149> am I using systemd if I define a daemon in init.d? I use systemctl to interact with it
19:49 < phogg> the only problem with the man pagers on linux.die.net is that it's sometimes unclear which OS/distro they're for, so small differences in behavior and versions may make the described usage incorrect.
19:50 < tdoirc> ayecee: https://pastebin.com/FjrfDNAV is what i see, and the amount of memory used keeps increasing without any processes to reflect it, and without shared, buffers, or cached from free increasing, it'll run out of memory in a few hours, it has been doing this consistently for a while, just now looking into it
19:50 < jim> you can write the init.d script to call the systemd unit stuff if you want
19:50 < phogg> morenoh149: ps -p 1 -ocmd= # if it says systemd you're using systemd
19:51 < morenoh149> sbin/init
19:51 < tdoirc> let me look the tmpfs route though, that's one i didn't explore yet
19:51 < tdoirc> doesn't look like it though
19:51 < phogg> morenoh149: that *might* not be systemd. It can be launched via that name (as can most inits)
19:53 < T-Rog> if my system has an old legacy ATI Radeon HD 3450, what's the best driver for gaming on this thing? The open source driver or FGLRX Legacy?
19:55 < koala_man> T-Rog: the open source driver
19:55 < tdoirc> kurahaupo: would shm show up under the shared column in free, or no?
19:56 < T-Rog> koala_man: I'm getting between 7 and 20 FPS in a 3D space sim from 1999 on the lowest graphics settings. Is that the best I can do?
19:57 < koala_man> T-Rog: that sounds like software rendering tbh
19:58 < koala_man> what do you get on glxgears?
19:58 < morenoh149> oh what if journald shows logs, is that a sign that I'm using systemd?
19:58 < T-Rog> koala_man: 75.0 FPS
19:58 < morenoh149> journalctl rather
20:00 < koala_man> T-Rog: yeah it doesn't sound like it's accelerated. I got 4000 on my Radeon HD 5850, and 1900 on my pre-HD Radeon
20:00 < koala_man> with free drivers
20:00 < T-Rog_> koala_man: okay. What's the first thing I need to check?
20:00 < koala_man> sorry gtg! glxinfo is a good start
20:05 < T-Rog_> glxinfo says I have direct rendering, so I think that means I do have 3D acceleration
20:05 < simbalion> Can anyone recommend a tool for stripping the attachments from everythign in .INBOX/Junk and then mass-emailing the contents of Junk as attachements to one or more spam-reporting services?
20:05 < simbalion> I'm thinking I could roll my own as a python adventure but maybe something exists already
20:06 < bls> do said spam-reporting services not have a preferred solution?
20:06 < simbalion> bls: forwarded emails as attachments.
20:08 < plexigras> is there an easy way to add a confirmation prompt to a shell script?
20:08 < bls> these inbox/mailbox migration tools used to be a dime a dozen when email was a thing
20:09 < bls> plexigras: `read -p 'Continue? ' choice; echo $choice`
20:09 < vfbsilva> guys I would like to use some tool to visualize the contents of images into a headless server which has no xserver installed is it possible?
20:09 < bls> vfbsilva: "visualize the contents of images"? like libcaca?
20:10 < phogg> vfbsilva: you want a terminal-oriented image viewer?
20:10 < vfbsilva> bls: like if I exported X twice in ssh and opened a remote nautilis/dolphin session
20:10 < phogg> wat
20:10 < bls> heh, yeah, that doesn't make sense
20:11 < phogg> vfbsilva: why don't you back up and describe your scenario instead of guessing at what you think you want
20:11 < collins> bls isn't makeing any ssense
20:12 < collins> bls: im having my period and that's making me a bit woouuu woouu
20:12 < collins> shouldn't be on irc meanwhile probably
20:12 < vfbsilva> I have a jetson X2 machine where I need to run a neural network into a set of images. Per default the installation on the jetson does not have an installed xserver. But I would like to be able to visualize the images into it. Maybe vnc or something like that
20:12 < s10gopal> ls -lh dont print header , how to print it ?
20:14 < bls> vfbsilva: you don't need a remote xserver to run X applications
20:14 < collins> vfbsilva: that's exactly what I need! I'm getting one of those
20:15 < vfbsilva> collins: ?
20:15 < bls> vfbsilva: ignore him
20:15 < collins> bls: no, I'm serious. I'm getting one
20:15 < autopsy> vfbsilva, you can use secure shell X11 for warding to run X applications on your local machine.
20:16 < collins> What are you doing though? Feeding it images for it to classify?
20:17 < collins> or is it for training?
20:19 < vfbsilva> autopsy: I did try that but nautilus is crashing: http://clipboard.space/clip/L5KMQxLOyKtMKXDp5v1Y
20:20 < sud0x3> vfbsilva: So you just want a slideshow on the machine, what do you mean by visualise (view?)
20:20 < bls> hmm, is nautilus now hardwired to only run inside a gnome session? have you tried a different program?
20:21 < vfbsilva> sud0x3: eactly
20:21 < vfbsilva> slideshow
20:22 < sud0x3> vfbsilva: try feh
20:23 < sud0x3> feh -D 5 ~/images ; displays images from ~/images/ and switch every 5 seconds
20:29 < vfbsilva> sud0x3: feh did the trick! thanks a lot
20:32 < DJVG> Hey all. I'm having a weird IPv6 issue with a machine. It's running 4.9.82-1+deb9u3 as kernel and e1000 driver version 7.3.21-k8-NAPI for networking, there's no firewall running but ip6tables is loaded. IPv6 works fine for a while but it suddenly stops, It still sees it's neigbors as reachable for a while but they go stale after a couple of mintues. When this happens there's no more icmp6 or other ip6 traffic on the interface.
20:32 < DJVG> 'm able to resolve it by running sysctl ipv6_disable and enable it again.
20:32 < DJVG> The router is still sending ND/RA but nothing is received by the host (checking with tcmpdump).
20:33 < DJVG> Other hosts on the same VLAN don't have this problem.
20:34 < zapotah> DJVG: the kernel and driver versions dont give much to go on with
20:35 < DJVG> zapotah: It's a debian host so they're running the kernel and driving provided by them
20:36 < DJVG> I'm looking for a way to debug this
20:36 < DJVG> No messages are logged
20:36 < zapotah> networking is generally fairly straightforward to debug
20:36 < DJVG> Oh sorry, I now see I gave you the kernel package version. It's version 4.9.0-6-amd64
20:37 < zapotah> unless a gui was installed
20:37 < zapotah> in which case it gets messy
20:37 < djph> or Network Manager is installed
20:37 < zapotah> djph: i kind of implied that :3
20:37 < DJVG> hehe sorry
20:37 < djph> isnt there nm-cli ad well?
20:37 < djph> *as well?
20:37 < zapotah> djph: its still nm
20:37 < djph> ah
20:38 < zapotah> no matter how its configured its still NM
20:38 < DJVG> There's nm, but we're using systemd networkd for configuration
20:38 < DJVG> As far as I know NM is not enabled, but it's a good one, let me check
20:38 < zapotah> DJVG: its always NM
20:39 < zapotah> or systemd for that matter...
20:40 < DJVG> zapotah: djph: NM is not installed
20:41 < Sirisian|Work> Permission question. I have a folder /tmp/A owned by user A and with group C. and /tmp/B owned by user B with group C. Both A and B are in C. I have /tmp/A/file. If I do mv /tmp/A/file /tmp/B/file; I get "mv: cannot move '/tmp/A/file' to '/tmp/B/file': Permission denied", but I can cp /tmp/A/file /tmp/B/file; rm /tmp/A/file; just fine. Why?
20:41 < zapotah> DJVG: youve another vector to tackle with netowrkd
20:41 < sparrowsword> am using a raspberry pi and trying to connect to my wdcloud drive.... following the instructions on this site... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=95277 i have found my drives using smbclient -L MYBOOKLIVE, however i am not able to mount it using the sudo mount -t citfs.... i do have this installed ofc
20:42 < bls> Sirisian|Work: what are the group RW permissions on the directories?
20:42 < zapotah> DJVG: its designed for desktops and is not the default for a very good reason
20:42 < DJVG> zapotah: How would you sugget I start debugging? Haha (sad)
20:42 < DJVG> zapotah: It's the default in Debian 9 though
20:42 < zapotah> DJVG: afaik its not if you dont do a gui install
20:42 < DJVG> This is a minimal server install
20:43 < zapotah> id need to check if that indeed is the case
20:44 < zapotah> feels not right to me though
20:44 < Sirisian|Work> bls, ooh good catch. The /tmp/A was drwxrwsr-x+ and /tmp/B was drwxr-sr-x+. I've got a bug someplace.
20:44 < zapotah> no, not default on any of mine
20:46 < DJVG> zapotah: I can't explain that. It's just a mimimal install
20:47 < djph> sparrowsword: "ciTfs"?
20:47 < DJVG> And we use this config on many many servers with networkd and It's the first time I heard it's for desktops but alright
20:47 < DJVG> I'm looking for a way to debug
20:50 < tcpdump> hey everyone
20:50 < zapotah> DJVG: is this an actual machine and not some openvz or lxc container?
20:50 < tcpdump> I need a way to ping an entire /16 subnet.
20:50 < zapotah> tcpdump: fping
20:50 < zapotah> tcpdump: run along
20:50 < tcpdump>  I just need to send a icmp packet and ignore any response.
20:50 < ayecee> heh
20:50 < phogg> tcpdump: why would you do that
20:51 < zapotah> phogg: sssh, let him come a hundred times with trickles of more info about his real intent
20:51 < jim> one way to debug is try different things at the endpoints... do you have a different machine with a wireless, or maybe a friend has something? and the other endpoint, the wireless access point, can you get something different?
20:51 < tcpdump> because a vendor has introduced a hardware bug that causes the device to be unavailable if it doesnt get any packet data in 2 hrs phogg .
20:51 < DJVG> zapotah: Yes, an actual physical machine
20:51 < tcpdump> well, the devices, on the /16
20:51 < phogg> tcpdump: and you don't know what its IP is?
20:51 < tcpdump> Theres thousands of them.
20:52 < phogg> ...
20:52 < tcpdump> I need to blindly ping the /16 every 1.5 hrs
20:52 < phogg> tcpdump: well fine, go ahead
20:52 < jim> zapotah, please don't try to chase folks away
20:52 < tcpdump> phogg: so you would recommend fping then?
20:52 < bls> tcpdump: then grab nmap or fping
20:52 < phogg> tcpdump: it will do the job
20:52 < jim> tcpdump, for what reason?
20:53 < zapotah> jim: yeah, i tend to get that way with XY
20:53 < user3> i'm looking for an easy way to check in a shell script if I have a working internet connection. that doesn't have to be 100% reliable. i'm trying this and that seems to be working:
20:53 < user3> if ping -c1 google.com 2>/dev/null | grep -q "^1 packets transmitted, 1 received"
20:53 < zapotah> time for something non-irc
20:53 < badsekter> tcpdump: get people in #bash to help you write a script where you can ping another machine every other second in the list, or more frequent so the whole cycle will be less than two hours
20:53 < user3> then echo up; else echo down; fi
20:53 < widp> looks like I'll have to make a bootable windows usb...
20:53 < user3> is there a simpler way? maybe with the command ip?
20:53 < jim> zapotah, you just have to get them to tell you the Y
20:53 < silva> hello, how can I monitor the cached memory usage per application?
20:54 < phogg> user3: you can just do ping -c1 <addr> and check the return code
20:54 < bls> user3: ip is just going to tell you if you've got a physical connection, not if it can actually reach the internet
20:54 < tcpdump> can you do a broadcast message with fping?
20:54 < phogg> user3: if ping -c1 $somewhere >/dev/null ; then echo up ; else echo down ; fi
20:54 < user3> i'm not sure if that's reliable enough
20:54 < bls> user3: nothing is going to be
20:54 < phogg> user3: it's exactly as reliable as your version with grep, only no grep
20:55 < phogg> user3: I thought you said you didn't need it to be reliable. How much reliability is enough?
20:55 < user3> because that doesnt back-check the packets transmitted and received
20:55 < badsekter> tcpdump: before the days of smurf, you could ping .255 of a subnet to ping the entire subnet, but admins disabled it... but if you are the admin of your that network, maybe you can configue broadcast
20:55 < phogg> user3: you only sent one, so yes it does
20:55 < bls> user3: yes it does
20:55 < jim> tcpdump, folks get a bit grumpy if they don't understand the whole story
20:55 < phogg> user3: if ping -c1 does not receive a reply the return code is failure, if it does the return code is success. Since there was only one packet you know that one worked.
20:56 < tcpdump> jim: no I understand that. Sounds a bit... sketchy I'd imagine.
20:56 < bls> tcpdump: just run fping or nmap on your entire /16, not sure what else you'd need
20:56 < user3> phogg: is that document in the man page?
20:56 < phogg> tcpdump: as bls says even nmap can do this by doing a "ping scan" of the whole range
20:56 < user3> i've not seen it :(
20:57 < Dagmar> Maybe you should read it
20:57 < user3> *documented
20:57 < phogg> user3: of course
20:57 < user3> re-reading the man page...
20:57 < phogg> user3: "If ping does not receive any reply packets at all it will exit with code 1."
20:57 < tcpdump> phogg: yea, nmap may be the best.
20:57 < phogg> tcpdump: fping can do effectively the same thing
20:58 < phogg> the difference being I have nmap's options memorized, but not fping's
20:58 < tcpdump> phogg: yea? Im just not familiar with fping.
20:58 < user3> nmap and fping arent installed by default on my system (fedora 28)
20:58 < phogg> I suspect it's the same for a lot of people
20:58 < tcpdump> phogg: same
20:58 < human_2> when I modify a file in a dir in GNU/Linux (ubuntu), does the last-modified of the dir also change?
20:58 < phogg> user3: do you need them?
20:58 < bls> yeah, never used fping before or see why it exists
20:58 < user3> lol
20:58 < phogg> bls: why use fping when you can use hping3?
20:58 < jim> tcpdump, this comes under the category of an xyproblem (where they talk about doing x, but not the whole thing they actually want to do, the y) where you've told us the x (I want to ping an entire /16) but not stated what the actual final goal (the y) is
20:59 < human_2> bls: one reason why fping exists is it can set a timeout whereas AFAIK ping cannot
20:59 < phogg> easy answer: for hping3 I have to consult the manual *every* time
20:59 < sparrowsword> djph: it is new to me
20:59 < bls> ping has -w for timeout
20:59 < Dagmar> bls++
20:59 < human_2> but it cannot be in milliseconds
21:00 < jim> and it even seems like you're still resistant to telling the y
21:00 < phogg> bls: -W is closer
21:00 < human_2> fping canset it in milliseconds
21:00 < Dagmar> So what
21:00 < user3> fping isnt portable since  it's not installed by default
21:00 < phogg> if you need finer control, sure. Mostly people don't really care.
21:00 < bls> haha, so it can always fail
21:00 < tcpdump> jim: honestly, I want to ping a /16 and have no regard about rather it actually responds or not. I'd like it to send specifically one packet.
21:00 < Dagmar> Is it really going to make a difference if you want .75 seconds instead of 1 second?
21:00 < phogg> user3: does that matter?
21:00 < user3> matters to me
21:00 < user3> lol
21:01 < phogg> user3: why?
21:01 < Dagmar> Well, because the goalposts are on wheels, obviously.
21:01 < jim> tcpdump, yes, we understand that as the x... what's the overall goal?
21:01 < human_2> it matters when you want to scan the whole LAN to see whose connected
21:01 < badsekter> jim, he claims that there is a new hardware bug that will cause devices to shut down if they have no traffic for 2 hours
21:01 < phogg> user3: fping is not something you need for your situation.
21:01 < Dagmar> In that case you should use a tool meant to scan a network instead of reinventing the wheel using leftover fish rolls
21:01 < user3> thx
21:02 < hexnewbie> human_2: That's when you use nmap. (Then again, I found fping more usable than ping for many tasks)
21:02 < jim> oh, ok, so this is a keepalive
21:02 < bls> right, now we're just not sure why nmap isn't an acceptable solution to this problem
21:02 < Dagmar> It's also the "Y seems insane"
21:02 < Dagmar> There's no such bug
21:02 < human_2> but I needed something that gives me notifications real time whenever a device goes down or connects
21:02 < phogg> jim: He did say when I asked: He has hundreds of vendor-supplied devices on the net which go to sleep after 2 hours if there is no network traffic and he wants o prevent that by giving them some.
21:02 < tcpdump> jim: I have a set of devices in the /16 subnet that have a unique bug in which if they dont have communication for 2 hours they will go unresponsive. I need to ping them with a single packet once ever 1.5 hrs to keep them from going unresposive.
21:02 < Dagmar> human_2: Nagios, Zabbix, there are at least a dozen monitoring systems for that
21:03 < Dagmar> Just put a windows machine on the network
21:03 < human_2> I didnt find any, so wrote one, it was only few hundred lines only
21:03 < Dagmar> The perpetual browser elections will ensure everyone sees a packet every few minutes
21:03 < phogg> human_2: didn't find one?! Nagios is literally that.
21:03 < jim> ok, right, a keepalive
21:03 < phogg> human_2: it has only existed since 1995.
21:03 < human_2> will check that, thanks
21:04 < jim> tcpdump, thanks for letting me know
21:04 < phogg> human_2: nagios is a tool for *executing checks* and noticing *state changes* and triggering *events*, all based on your configuration. You can do lots of things with it.
21:04 < human_2> sounds a lot better than my current solution
21:05  * bls needs to add nagios or zabbix to his current wish list for work
21:05 < phogg> the one I like is the 'flapping' state indicating a check switching between good/bad frequently.
21:05 < tcpdump> jim np, sorry for being cryptic.
21:05 < phogg> bls: it's more than a bit of work to set up initially.
21:05 < bls> the commercial solution we've got right now is absolute garbage
21:05 < tcpdump> Any thoughts.
21:05 < human_2> I had a question: when I modify a file in a dir in GNU/Linux (ubuntu), does the last-modified of the dir also change?
21:06 < phogg> bls: there are turn-key install options some vendors offer. Zabbix is a bit better in that regard. But, to be useful, you still need to tune everything.
21:06 < ayecee> human_2: seems easy enough to test
21:06 < ayecee> human_2: i would think no
21:06 < phogg> human_2: try it and see!
21:06 < human_2> ok
21:06 < phogg> ayecee: you'd be wrong
21:06 < ayecee> well boo
21:06 < phogg> well
21:06 < bls> phogg: that's the problem. we've got this "batteries included" commercial solution that can't be tuned in areas we'd like to
21:06 < phogg> if you change the file *name* it changes the dir
21:06 < ayecee> yeah
21:06 < phogg> if you change anything else it does not
21:06 < ayecee> so i'd be right
21:06 < ayecee> \o/
21:07 < human_2> no, it does not
21:07 < bls> so we can't say: "ignore this host during this maintenance window" or even "ignore this host". you have to uninstall their agent and purge the host from its db
21:07 < phogg> bls: yep, nagios is the reverse of that. Batteries are NOT included but you can tune *EVERYTHING*. Zabbix is, as far as I can tell, just about as powerful but more automated OOTB.
21:07 < ayecee> imagine if it did, though! the directory would change time, and the parent would change time, all the way up to /
21:08 < ayecee> every time you updated a file
21:08 < Dagmar> Zabbix also contains more bureaucracy out of the box
21:08 < phogg> Dagmar: some people find that virtuous.
21:08 < Dagmar> Someone let an unsupervised committee have at it for awhile
21:08 < courrier> Running this script with argument "scheduler" does not return, even if python crashes, do you know why? http://paste.debian.net/1025938/
21:08 < courrier> (File is truncated to a simple example)
21:08 < phogg> courrier: you are calling exec
21:09 < Dagmar> ...and exec never returns.
21:09 < bls> so I either live with my freaking notifications will going off every 15 minutes during outages, or I give up all my historical data
21:09 < phogg> courrier: are you sure you know what exec does?
21:10 < courrier> phogg: ah hum no :D I'm not the one who used exec here, that might not be appropriate
21:10 < phogg> bls: https://assets.nagios.com/downloads/nagioscore/docs/nagioscore/3/en/timeperiods.html
21:11 < courrier> Acutally I don't know why they wanted to use exec here
21:11 < courrier> calling the python interpreter just looks great
21:11 < phogg> courrier: unrelatedly are you sure it gets as far as the pythong script?
21:11 < phogg> courrier: I'd be curious to know what wait-for-it.sh is doing
21:13 < courrier> phogg: it waits for all the services to be up, especially the redis server that acts as the main communicaiton system
21:13 < courrier> rabbit server*
21:13 < bls> yeah, had that at my last gig. pretty sure this is some former employee's buddy's project/startup that's now too entrenched to replace without a dedicated week or two of effort
21:13 < phogg> courrier: It should not matter, but I would not use exec. I would either make the python script exec as needed or wrap it in a call to daemon(1) to get daemon-like behavior out of it.
21:13 < phogg> courrier: is it possible that it's waiting on that forever?
21:14 < courrier> phogg: no, the python script is running well, I was just testing termination, but that never ends (this script is the DOcker entrypoint, I want to make sure Docker restarts it in case of failure, but it requires termination first with an error code)
21:15 < phogg> courrier: so is the python script supposed to exit or not?
21:16 < courrier> phogg: it should not in the regular case, except in case of error, in that case I'm expecting Docker to relaunch it
21:16 < Elec_A_> Hi, Can I see if my Ethernet interface is sending pause packets or not?
21:17 < ayecee> Elec_A_: is flow control turned on?
21:17 < phogg> courrier: so it sounds like you'r expecting daemon-like behavior where the init script runs the daemon and then returns, leaving the python script runnig.
21:17 < ayecee> it would be very unusual for it to be turned on
21:17 < phogg> courrier: if the python script is not written to fork/fork/exec itself this will not work that way.
21:18 < Elec_A_> ayecee: how can I check to see if flow control is on ?
21:18 < ayecee> maybe with ethtool.
21:18 < ayecee> unless you've turned it on, it's probably not on.
21:19 < ayecee> unless it's on, there will be no pause frames
21:19 < Elec_A_> ayecee: hah, Autonegotiate is off, RX is on and TX is on
21:20 < ayecee> flow control is on?
21:20 < Elec_A_> I executed ethtool -a eth2. It doesn't say anything about flow control. let me dig more into ethtool
21:20 < ayecee> what does it say
21:21 < Elec_A_> ayecee: it reports "Autonegotiate is off, RX is on and TX is on"
21:23 < courrier> phogg: on the contrary, I'm expecting the script to live till an error occurs within Python, in that case both scripts (Python and Bash) end with error != 0 and Docker restarts them
21:24 < phogg> courrier: as written it will do that
21:24 < Elec_A_> ayecee: "When tx is enabled, PAUSE frames are generated when the receive packet buffer crosses a predefined threshold."
21:25 < Elec_A_> so mine is On, I conclude that Pause frames are generated.
21:25 < phogg> courrier: where do you expect the python script stdout and stderr to go? Is  the caller taking care of that?
21:25 < ayecee> that doesn't sound correct
21:25 < Elec_A_> ayecee: https://www.linuxsecrets.com/discussions/9990-how-to-pause-frames-with-ethtool
21:26 < ayecee> huh, that is correct.
21:26 < courrier> phogg: this script is launched by systemD, I'm expecting SystemD to keep trace of stdout/err, which actually works
21:26 < courrier> However "exec" seemed not be the source of my issue
21:27 < phogg> courrier: in that case scratch another potential source of hangs
21:27 < courrier> I replaced exec by the python interpreter directly
21:27 < courrier> I'm now manually raising an exception within Python, which I see, but the interpreter does not return :/
21:27 < phogg> courrier: the only differences are that with exec any code in the shell script after exec will not run, which in you case is fine, and without it you'll get an extra process hanging around
21:28 < phogg> courrier: I cannot at all help with anything on the systemd side. I can only tell you that as written the script will run that python script and return when it exits, reporting its error code.
21:28 < phogg> courrier: have you tried invoking it by hand from within the docker environment to see what happens?
21:30 < Elec_A_> ayecee: I'm a bit confused though, Mellanox tool reports that PFCs are disabled : http://paste.opensuse.org/27112455
21:31 < ayecee> i don't know what mellanox is
21:32 < Elec_A_> ayecee: that's the name of a company that makes high speed ethernet. mine is 100Gbit/s
21:32 < ayecee> i see
21:34 < Elec_A_> ayecee: well, sorry about that. It seems Priority Flow Control doesn't necessarily realte to Pause packets since they are two different methods.
21:34 < Elec_A_> relate*
21:34 < ayecee> mystery solved :)
21:34 < Elec_A_> Yep ;)
21:36 < Elec_A_> Whoever comes up with these methods are freaking genious. damn!
21:43 < X^RegProg> hi there everyone
21:44 < X^RegProg> I am trying to get lxdm and a gui to work for my alpine linux, but in my lxdm.log I am getting a 'no screens found(EE)'
21:44 < X^RegProg> what am I doing wrong?
21:44 < ayecee> you stopped reading at the last line. should probably start from the first error instead.
21:46 < jim> X^RegProg, no screens found is an x config error
21:48 < jim> X^RegProg, normally, x comes up without a config (the days you need to config it are mostly gone, you can have no config file)
21:49 < X^RegProg> sorry for getting disconnected
21:49 < X^RegProg> did anyone say anything for me?>
21:50 < jim> X^RegProg, no screens found is an x config error
21:50 < jim> X^RegProg, normally, x comes up without a config (the days you need to config it are mostly gone, you can have no config file)
21:51 < X^RegProg> jim: I have generated one using 'Xorg -configure' and moved it to xorg config directory but it is still not working
21:51 < jim> what happens if you don't have that file? (move it to your home dir for safe keeping)
21:52 < shalok> jelly: Is there any way to avoid the page cache for just a specific `dd` operation?
21:52 < X^RegProg> jim: should rm it for a test?
21:52 < jim> or move it to your home dir
21:52 < X^RegProg> ok
21:52 < jim> in case you want to keep it
21:54 < tcpdump> anyone know if theres a way to tell nmap to send only a single ping packet?
21:54 < Dagmar> Didn't you already beat that question to death about an hour aho?
21:54 < Dagmar> s/aho/ago/
21:54 < ayecee> tcpdump: fping is probably more suitable for that
21:55 < tcpdump> ayecee: so thats a configurable param in fping?  you know any good tutorials on that?
21:55 < ayecee> not off the top of my head, no
21:55 < jim> X^RegProg, does it work when you do that?
21:55 < X^RegProg> jim: I moved the file, and I am having the same problem
21:55 < ayecee> it seems like something you'd use a manpage for, not a tutorial
21:55 < X^RegProg> not working
21:56 < jim> ok, hmm
21:56 < ayecee> tutorials usually cover common use cases. you're doing something weird.
21:57 < X^RegProg> jim: what am I doing wrong? Should I run Xorg -configure again?
21:58 < DLange> install a display driver for your gfx card
21:58 < collins> ayecee is a gfx card
21:58 < ayecee> X^RegProg: should probably find out what the error was first.
21:58 < jim> X^RegProg, could you do... lspci -nn | grep -i vga | nc termbin.com 9999
21:58 < DLange> or use a more simple Linux distro that does more by itself
21:58 < ayecee> shotgun debugging is messy
21:59 < jim> ayecee, so he needs the log file?
21:59 < ayecee> would be a good place to start
22:00 < jim> X^RegProg, which x server do you use?
22:00 < ayecee> xorg
22:01 < jim> (these problems are 20 years old :)
22:02 < jim> X^RegProg, ok, xorg. do you have an executable called Xorg?
22:02 < ayecee> imma let you finish, but the log file is the first place to go
22:04 < jim> ok, what I'm trying to do is have him start the server and collect what it spews into a file, that should be good?
22:04 < collins> ayecee'z gunna let'ya finish pal, but the log file is the first place to go
22:04 < ayecee> there's already a log file
22:04 < jim> where wouild it be?
22:04 < ayecee> it's the one he's already looking at
22:04 < TaZeR> i just found a 2.2gb folder named .stack in my home i have no idea what the heck it is
22:05 < TaZeR> says something about haskell and cabal
22:05 < TaZeR> not owned by any package hmm
22:05 < X^RegProg> There is a log file guys and I have access to it
22:05 < jelly> shalok, see if your dd supports posix_fadvise (POSIX_FADV_DONTNEED probably) or O_DIRECT
22:05 < jim> ok, could you show the full path to that log file?
22:06 < ayecee> or, you know, pastebin the file
22:06 < jim> that's what I am doing :{
22:06 < TaZeR> ghc-tinfo6-nopie-7.10.3.installed and stuff simular to this i inside
22:06 < ayecee> sometimes when you're doing baby steps, it's hard to see the bigger picture
22:07 < shalok> jelly: I found a flag called 'direct' and it seems to do the trick.
22:07 < ayecee> might be good to start with the big picture first
22:07 < TaZeR> ill delete it... sounds like old build files from haskell or something
22:07 < jelly> that probably uses O_DIRECT
22:07 < shalok> jelly: Any diff between that and DONTNEED?
22:07 < jim> X^RegProg, do you have a command line that youy're running like less somelogfile?
22:08 < jelly> shalok, their intended use is different and kernel people frown when you use O_DIRECT to avoid cache, it seems
22:08 < jelly> I don't know the details
22:09 < X^RegProg> here are the errors: "open /dev/dri/card: Bo such file or directory" "open /dev/fb: No such file or directory" "sceen  deleted because of no matching config section" " Device(s) detected, but none match those in the config file." "No screens found"
22:09 < X^RegProg> Jim ^
22:10 < quul> missing dri/fb driver support?
22:10 < ayecee> it would be more useful to have the pastebin
22:11 < Dagmar> Is there a video card?
22:11 < X^RegProg> ayecee: I really don't know how to pastebin from this system. I only have vi and no connection. I have to type te whole thing
22:11 < jim> X^RegProg, you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command by running "anArbitraryCommand | nc termbin.com 9999", and to include error messages, "anArbitraryCommand 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999"
22:11 < ayecee> take a picture with your phone, then
22:11 < X^RegProg> Dagmar: This is on virtualbox
22:12 < Dagmar> So *is* there a video card?
22:12 < jim> that's assuming you have net, and you have the nc program installed
22:12 < Dagmar> The VM has to have at least a virtual graphics card
22:12 < ayecee> which he doesn't
22:12 < nicholasBPM> I need to run 0,5 MB large text files through a filer of 800 combinations (6-12 characters), should i read the combinations to memory, from a text file or mysql?
22:12 < X^RegProg> Dagmar: whatever the video card is it is the one provided by virtualbox.
22:13 < Dagmar> So what type of virtual video card would that be?
22:13 < X^RegProg> I have internet, but not on this machine
22:13 < jim> ok, that's kinda a special case
22:13 < jim> ok
22:14 < b0b>  /hc
22:14 < X^RegProg> hc ?
22:15 < ayecee> cat on keyboard syndrome
22:15 < ayecee> maybe face on keyboard
22:15 < b0b> something like that
22:15 < X^RegProg> any help?
22:15 < ayecee> still waiting for that pastebin or picture.
22:16 < quul> X^RegProg: step1) verify your kernel has graphics drivers
22:16 < quul> step0) use a distro that has graphics drivers
22:16 < jim> do you have net on another linux machine?
22:16 < ayecee> if you think it's a hassle preparing that, imagine how difficult it is trying to imagine what it says instead
22:21 < jim> ok, basic ground rules... first, stay focused on the help conversation... when we ask you questions, it takes like a minute for you to respond and that can get frustrating
22:22 < ayecee> it's easier if you assume he had to run to save a child from a burning building at exactly that moment
22:22 < jim> and a hundred other irl issues that could have come up
22:23 < collins> marmelade
22:24 < collins> can't get these damn large numbers to factorize faster than GNFS
22:24 < ayecee> factoring is hard
22:24 < collins> yep. spending hour after hour after hour on trying to break this thing
22:24 < collins> I mean, how hard can it be really :3
22:25 < collins> such a simple problem to grasp yet so hard to solve
22:31 < ayecee> are you trying something other than gnfs?
22:32 < collins> trying to be inventive
22:32 < collins> just finding trivial things
22:34 < brutser>  when i install virtualbox-guest-addition from rpmfusion, everything works fine, but the shared folder gives an unexpected "error": automount vbsvcAutoMountWorker: Shared folder 'BrowseBox' already is mounted!
22:35 < collins> brutser: isn't it just mounted?
22:36 < brutser> no, the empty folder is created though
22:36 < brutser> what can be causing this? the shared is not mounted and after login i can manually mount it without any problem
22:37 < collins> Don't know really. Try #virtualbox
22:37 < DLange> #vbox might know
22:38 < brutser> yea #vbox told me to go elsewhere and ask it
22:40 < sla3k> What's the good software for creating home audio server? I know MPD is good one but does it have iOS client?
22:40 < jim> what dist do you  run?
22:41 < dTal> sla3k: a google search for "mpd ios clent" suggests the answer is yes, many
22:41 < sla3k> Right now Centos 6.9 but it does not matter, I can re-install
22:41 < collins> brutser: I wouldn't worry about it unless you really really need that automount. In that case you could just create a startup script for it. Life is too short to care about random bugs and errors.
22:42 < sla3k> dTal: hmm, yea I saw some options as well now but wanted to know if someone actually tried it.
22:42 < brutser> collins: you are right, hard for me, but i should not care and move on
22:43 < banisterfiend> hi, this iptables should allow 192.168.0.0/16 (lan) traffic right? it doesn't appear to: https://gist.github.com/banister/a26c44ef26270273b88fb4e3b417b57d
22:43 < collins> brutser: caring doesn't hurt, but moving on is the most important step
22:43 < ayecee> banisterfiend: should be accept, not return, no?
22:43 < jim> there is a package for debian that gets jackd and pulseaudio to coexist... then, you can run all manner of audio stuff, and also route the audio in many useful ways
22:45 < jim> the name of the package is cadence, and it's not actually in debian, but I've found a source package for it, you build that, you get a handful of packages, you would install all those except the unity support one (debian doesn't have unity, and it's been discontinued in ubuntu)
22:46 < sla3k> banisterfiend: Should be accept instead of return unless there is another rule in another chain on which this rule depends. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/191607/iptables-and-return-target?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa
22:46 < jim> building the package is pretty much a snap after installing the build depends
22:47 < dTal> I am writing a little shim to use a Trackpoint as a joystick in games. I'm having a small problem in that the Trackpoint only emits events when it is being pushed. This means that if you rapidly release it, the last known values are not 0,0.
22:48 < dTal> Is there a better solution than just having a seperate thread that sets the coordinates to 0,0 if no event has been detected in X time? It seems inelegant.
22:49 < banisterfiend> sla3k hmm ACCEPT isn't working either :/
22:49 < dTal> Presumably Xorg does it somehow, because my cursor is stationary :p
22:53 < bls> you're lucky, I'm used to the "phantom movement"
22:54 < cmj> yeah. jstest-gtk and maybe use it to load a configuration
22:55 < cmj> i've yet to figure out one of my controllers
22:55 < cmj> maybe one can change relative to absolute positioning, dTal
22:58 < aBound> What do yall think about Canonical starting a public IPO?
22:58 < aBound> https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/21/dont-expect-ubuntu-maker-canonical-to-ipo-this-year/
23:00 < dTal> cmj: can you just *change* a device from relative to absolute? I thought you got what you were given
23:00 < cmj> that i don't know. you can see what options you can flip with xinput
23:00 < cmj> wacom pads i know you can, for the sake of drawing
23:01 < dTal> mind you, although I'm getting EV_REL events, the numbers correspond to outright force i.e. the nearest thing to an actual absolute there is for this
23:01 < cmj> i only own gamepads no tool that it might be an option with. but play with xinput and see if you can change it
23:01 < dTal> I wonder what I'd get with EV_ABS - an integral of the above?
23:08 < cmj> i'm still unsure what it is you are after. i disable game contollers with xorg using xinput <device #> disable. and the game/emulator will re-attach for use
23:09 < folorn> could anyone help me open all ports on a debian machine from the terminal
23:09 < folorn> or the command to do it ?
23:09 < cmj> another is just remove xserver-xorg-input-joystick
23:14 < kurahaupo> folorn: nmap ?
23:14 < dTal> cmj: I want to use my Trackpoint as a joystick in games, so I'm writing a little daemon that receives Trackpoint events and writes them into a virtual uninput joystick. The problem is there is no Trackpoint event for "user is not touching the Trackpoint", only EV_REL. So the joystick never quite centers.
23:16 < dTal> In truth, reading evdev events may already be too high a level interface for this.
23:19 < folorn> kurahaupo does nmap open all ports ?
23:25 < fightthewalrus> How can I lock the screen in AwesomeWM? I swear I searched documentation all over and could not figure this out
23:25 < FLHerne> dTal: It's more fun to use the HDAPS sensor as a joystick :P
23:25 < FLHerne> (and there's already code for it)
23:25  * FLHerne spent a happy afternoon steering through SuperTuxKart by wobbling his laptop about, and then had to get new screen hinges :-/
23:26 < fightthewalrus> I wonder if I have to bind some kind of xscreensaver command to a key combination or something
23:27 < FLHerne> fightthewalrus: That's the usual solution for lightweight wms
23:27 < FLHerne> (other options are i3lock and slock)
23:28 < kurahaupo> folorn: if you ask it to. What are you trying to achieve?
23:28 < FLHerne> I'm using i3lock here (with dwm) and am quite happy with it
23:29 < dTal> FLHerne: this new Thinkpad was *very* expensive - I'm not gonna wave it around!
23:29 < Psi-Jack> Personally I use light locker, since I use lightdm.
23:29 < dTal> in fact I have deliberately avoided installing that driver *specifically* so I'm not tempted
23:30 < FLHerne> dTal: If you rest the middle of it on one knee, you can sort of wobble it by pushing on one side or other of the palmrest, while also still being able to reach the keys
23:32 < dTal> okay, so I'm gonna have to use a timeout. Of course the Trackpoint speaks PS/2, so indeed there's nothing to report when it's not being touched. However I can access the sampling rate at  /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/serio2/rate. So if it's been longer than that since the last event, the Trackpoint is *definitely* not being pushed.
23:32 < candidat> have you ever had the idea of giving up on your job ?
23:32 < twainwek> candidat: are you offering a job?
23:32 < candidat> twainwek: no
23:32 < vfbsilva> candidat: like after every meeting with a clueless director?
23:33 < vfbsilva> candidat: he had a bad day prolly
23:33 < candidat> i m asking if you guys ever been feed up about computers and all that shit
23:33 < ayecee> mind the language please
23:33 < candidat> sorry
23:33 < vfbsilva> candidat: with the users and managers never with the machines
23:33 < twainwek> ^
23:33 < candidat> i mean with all that stuff
23:34 < candidat> vfbsilva yes manager and users are a pain in the bipppp
23:34 < dTal> candidat: I have a job with a variety of duties that involves everything from math to programming to sanding and finishing
23:34 < folorn> im just trying to have it so when i nmap my ip address
23:34 < dTal> and believe me after week #5 of sanding and finishing you're desperate to get back to the programming
23:34 < folorn> i can have all ports open and enabled without having to go manually and enalbe everys single one
23:34 < Psi-Jack> candidat: Do you have a Linux question
23:35 < ayecee> sure. what is a linux?
23:35 < candidat> Psi-Jack : if you ever had a chance to make movies would you choose it instead of working for someone in IT
23:35 < Psi-Jack> candidat: Do you have a Linux question?
23:36 < fightthewalrus> FLHerne: point granted. But what is the specific command I should use?
23:36 < dTal> that's a weird thing to say, there's a lot of IT in making movies, especiallythese days
23:36 < candidat> Psi-Jack: yes, if i have ideas, would it be possible for me to ask somebody in the linux community to code it ?
23:36 < Psi-Jack> dTal: He's been doing this routine all day.
23:36 < fightthewalrus> FLHerne: or, better yet, what's the command you use to lock?
23:36 < dTal> sounds like he's having a bit of a crisis
23:36 < Psi-Jack> candidat: For you, unlikely.
23:36 < FLHerne> fightthewalrus: `i3lock -ui "$WALLPAPER" && xo`
23:36 < FLHerne> Hm, alias
23:37 < fightthewalrus> FLHerne: I tried issuing xflock4 but didn't do anything
23:37 < FLHerne> xo is a little bash script that does `xset dpms force off` twice with a short delay
23:37 < candidat> Psi-Jack ok thanks
23:37 < fightthewalrus> FLHerne: ok, that's a good starting point
23:37 < candidat> i m feed up of all that corporate stuff
23:38 < Psi-Jack> candidat: Perhaps you should take a vacation. Get away for a while.
23:38 < dTal> ...making movies isn't corporate?
23:38 < Brainspackle> or take drugs
23:38 < FLHerne> (because I found that often the key-release event turns the screen back on if it's executed immediately...)
23:38 < fightthewalrus> FLHerne: is i3lock specific to i3? Or can I use it with awesome?
23:38 < FLHerne> fightthewalrus: You can use it with anything, it just locks the screen
23:39 < dTal> FLHerne: but if it's in a script can't you just sleep the script for a tiny bit before issuing the command?
23:39 < dTal> instead of issuing it twice?
23:39 < FLHerne> xflock4 should work too, you might have missed something
23:39 < fightthewalrus> FLHerne: ok, that sounds nice
23:39 < candidat> dTal, making a movie is lot of work
23:39 < FLHerne> Sure, but then I'd always get a slight annoying flicker with the lock screen coming up before the display turns off
23:40 < candidat> Psi-Jack yes. true thanks you for that option
23:40 < FLHerne> Doing it twice with the delay in the middle, it does turn off immediately say 9/10 times
23:40 < fightthewalrus> FLHerne: the screen didn't even blink as I did it... but then I wasn't really using anything from xfce even though the distro came with it
23:40 < fightthewalrus> (with xfce4)
23:40 < dTal> FLHerne: so... xo && i3lock -ui "$WALLPAPER"
23:40 < fightthewalrus> but I'll try again with i3lock
23:40 < Psi-Jack> candidat: Now, mind not whining about your life here in ##linux? This isn't the channel for such things.
23:41 < Brainspackle> Psi-Jack: are you an op?
23:41 < FLHerne> dTal: I don't see why that wouldn't work, but I must have done it this way for some reason :P
23:41 < candidat> Psi-Jack you are correct sorry, i just needed some tutoring from fellow geeks and nerds
23:41 < Psi-Jack> candidat: Before, or after you called them all gay?
23:42 < FLHerne> (possibly the reason was that I just hacked it together with no serious thought, but...)
23:42 < dTal> who you callin a nerd
23:42 < candidat> Psi-Jack it was a joke
23:42 < Psi-Jack> candidat: Not many people would consider such to be "funny".
23:42 < xamithan> Jokes are funny though
23:44 < candidat> Psi-Jack i try to put some colors in that black and white irc channel but nevermind if im bad at it i will stop, i must be on depression
23:46 < candidat> a sad clown isnt funny :-(
23:46  * candidat run for the hills and hide in a cave
23:46 < Brainspackle> http://www.puddlespityparty.com/
23:47 < twainwek> not using https? what is this? 2010?
23:48 < Brainspackle> ah yes, so important to ensure noone spies on your clown video  traffic
23:48 < bls> because everyone knows your kernel blows up if you don't use http
23:48 < bls> s
23:48 < almostdvs> the store has https which is the only thing that would require it
23:49 < dTal> well if we're posting irellevant stuff I have a better one
23:49 < dTal> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3niFzo5VLI
23:49 < dTal> t minus 10
23:50 < twainwek> what if someone injects happy cloud video while you're browsing the website?
23:50 < twainwek> no excuse for not using https
23:50 < twainwek> clown*
23:51 < bls> no one will care?
23:52 < p1p3r4t> hi, i need a fdisk -l result of any hp pavilion 2016/2017 with ssd + hdd , if one here. Thank you.
23:54 < Brain> hi, what would be the most cross compatible way of creating an encrypted usb stick readable in linux?
23:54 < Brain> using dm-crypt or some kind of encrypted loop?
23:55 < Brain> or is there a more "user friendly" way?
23:55 < Brain> ofc theres the obvious of "7zip the data with a password" is usually secure enough... just thinking of something more transparent much like windows's bitlocker
23:58 < Psi-Jack> Brain: "of course" not "ofc". Here, it's frowned upon to use sms-speak.
23:59 < Brain> oh sry my bad... hah, only joking :D
23:59 < Psi-Jack> Generally, LUKS.
23:59 < Psi-Jack> Annnnd.. That's all you'll get from me now. :p
23:59 < Brain> thanks Psi-Jack
--- Log closed Wed May 23 00:00:09 2018