--- Log opened Wed May 23 00:00:09 2018
--- Day changed Wed May 23 2018
00:00 < Brain> luks seems like just what im after
00:12 < Aodai> Hey
00:14 < Aodai> exit
00:18 < candidat> cool live video
00:26 < Brain> Psi-Jack: thanks again, have created myself a 64gb encrypted memory stick using luks, works a treat :)
00:27 < Brain> it should be exactly what i need for this GDPR thing tomorrow. i'm the only one taking a linux laptop, and they are trying to foist bitlocker encrypted sticks on us... so when they say "so why cant you read encrypted memory sticks" i can simply say "no, i just cant read YOUR proprietary encrypted sticks" :p
00:27 < Brain> luckily theyre going to give me an unecrypted one anyway, which im going to copy straight to my own luks device :)
00:29 < akem> There is also veracrypt which is crossplatform.
00:29 < Brain> nice, thanks i'll look into that
00:29 < Brain> might be something i can make available on the windows pcs too
00:29 < Brain> seems luks also is supported on windows
00:31 < bls> not something you're likely to want to depend on though
00:34 < kerframil> Brain: cryptsetup(8) can work with truecrypt/veracrypt volumes, making it an attractive option for cross-compatibility with windows
00:36 < bls> yeah, that + a windows FS would be way better than LUKS + a linux FS for portability between OSs
00:46 < lord|> how should I optimize linux's swap settings when swap is on an encrypted volume
00:46 < lord|> whenever I have less than 300 MiB of physical RAM left my performance turns to shit
00:47 < klo0> hi , im trying to install atom , but i keep get error https://pastebin.com/CLhkz8wT
00:47 < lord|> swappiness is currently set to 5
00:48 < bls> once you start to thrash swap, not much you're going to tune to make things better
00:48 < bls> klo0: use apt/apt-get/aptitude to install it, not dpkg
00:49 < klo0> bls how?
00:49 < Loshki> lord|: add more RAM
00:49 < bls> I don't know. they should have provided instructions
00:49 < lord|> wouldn't swapping earlier be better
00:50 < lord|> so that the slowest pages get dealt with early on
00:50 < bls> not really. not swapping at all would be better
00:50 < bls> swap only really works when you can wait out the thrashing or the system is just barely over the RAM limit
00:53 < lord|> so swapping only really increases performance if the physical disk is fast
00:53 < lord|> which mine is not
00:54 < lord|> because it is encrypted and is a slow HDD
00:54 < dTal> untrue, swapping helps by paging out stuff that needs to be mapped but is never accessed
00:55 < dTal> thus freeing ram for stuff you actually do access
00:55 < bls> not what he's talking about though
00:56 < bls> the 'free up space so the kernel can efficiently manage memory' will improve performance, but using swap is always going to be slower than not using it at all excluding that
00:57 < bls> if it's all being accessed and the kernel is having to shuffle it in and out of swap regularly, things are going to be slow
01:02 < kerframil> lord|: bottom line. if you can, add more RAM to (a) stop pagecache from being starved of room for growth (b) a potentially high rate of paging in and out of swap. if you can't, consider using zswap (and use the z3fold allocator if your kernel is at least 4.14).
01:02 < qrvpzvb> say that I want to create an internal network, that's only accessible from the machine itself
01:02 < qrvpzvb> how should I do that?
01:03 < bls> qrvpzvb: it already exists
01:03 < qrvpzvb> bls: I don't suppose you mean loopback
01:03 < wad> I'm using tar to make a backup of Jenkins. My question: Does this output mean that it stopped building the .tgz file? tar: /var/jenkins_home: file changed as we read it
01:04 < wad> I don't know if my backup worked or not.
01:04 < bls> yes. did you want something that's not 127.x.x.x?
01:04 < gunix> do you need a bridge for tuntap interface ?
01:04 < bls> wad: that means you've probably got a corrupted tar file
01:04 < wad> Dangit.
01:05 < bls> wad: you need to ensure nothing is writing to the files you're trying to add to the tar
01:05 < lord|> kerframil: I've used compressed memory in the past
01:05 < wad> But I can't turn off this Jenkins service, got piles of people using it all the time. How am I supposed to back it up? -_-
01:05 < lord|> don't remember if it improved low memory situations
01:06 < bls> you either have to plan an outage, hope dirty backups are good enough, or use something under the FS to take the backup
01:06 < mgolisch> read their documentation about backup/restore?
01:07 < kerframil> lord|: it may well do, as throwing CPU cycles at the problem is often a reasonable trade-off, if you can't throw more RAM at the problem.
01:09 < qrvpzvb> the problem with lookback is that most service just assume it means 127.0.0.1
01:10 < xamithan> lookback?
01:10 < xamithan> Whats that?
01:10 < qrvpzvb> loopback* of course
01:10 < xamithan> Oh that makes more sense, carry on
01:11 < bls> you've got a whole 127/8
01:11 < bls> nothing is forcing you to just use 127.0.0.1
01:11 < kerframil> lord|: if you want the most aggressive compression possible, you could go all in in with the combo of zsmalloc/zlib, but z3fold/lzo is a very reasonable place to start, I think. if you go to far, page reclaim might be a tad unpredictable.
01:21 < cmj> v6 is nonsense on comcast
01:22 < bls> I had v6 working with them, but upgraded the OS on my router/firewall a couple months ago and it quit working. haven't bothered fighting it back on
01:23 < cmj> it is native as such and has been, just shits out whenever it feels like
01:24 < cmj> no more he tunnels. although i am in seattle.
01:25 < cmj> so many he.net tunnels for clients that don't have upstream support
01:25 < bls> I think my issue is something to do with the DHCPv6 they use here in NorCal. it'll give me an address but no gateway
01:26 < cmj> ip -6 r s?
01:26 < cmj> that's odd
01:27 < bls> could very well have been an outage though. don't pay very close attention to whether it's working or not
01:27 < cmj> mayb just assume the /64 as gateway
01:27 < cmj> default via 2603:3023:30a:f300:
01:33 < R13ose> jim: I destroyed my partition with using e2fsck on a mounted one.
01:37 < saderror256> hi
01:56 < Tadgy> Anyone know the definitive answer to this:  When setting an alias/additional IP on an interface with 'ip' should the netmask be fixed to a /32, or can the user specify their own?
01:58 < ayecee> neither
01:58 < saderror256> what error number does ln command "ln" drop off when if cant find the right thing to link?
01:59 < saderror256> for example
01:59 < saderror256> ln -sf /usr/share/zoneinfo/Zone/SubZone /etc/localtime
01:59 < bparker> anyone know what would cause tar to ask for a second tape after only writing 20% of its capacity?
01:59 < saderror256> is not going to work because zone and subzone arent found
01:59 < ayecee> saderror256: seems easy enough to test
01:59 < neoncontrails> Slight hiccup while following the instructions here for installing ArchLinux on a separate partition of a MacBook Pro: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/mac
01:59 < neoncontrails> Tl;dr: Disk Utility won’t let me create a partition larger than 58.1GB. Not only is that insufficient, it’s less than 1/8 of the free space on my hard drive!
01:59 < neoncontrails> So I'm a little confused.
01:59 < saderror256> ayecee, yes but i dont want to test it on my current system lol
01:59 < saderror256> im writing a script
01:59 < ayecee> why not?
01:59 < bls> you think it's going to work differently on a different system or in a script?
02:00 < autopsy> Oh script.
02:00 < saderror256> bls, doubt it, its arch linux (ps, its an arch install script)
02:01 < ayecee> so why not test it on your current system lol
02:01 < bls> neoncontrails: probably want to ask in #macosx (and don't tell them why you're doing it)
02:01 < neoncontrails> Googling the issue, it's my understanding that the macOS Disk Utility has changed a little bit and that creating new partitions is somewhat different now than in the past. I can create a volume of any size that's smaller than the partition that boots macOS, but I doubt that's what I want
02:01 < neoncontrails> @bls: yeah, awaiting a response there. :) I'll keep waiting, just curious if there was any mac expertise in the room
02:01 < bls> neoncontrails: if you've upgraded to APFS, you might need to force GPT mode for the new partition instead of creating an APFS volume
02:02 < neoncontrails> bls: I see. So with APFS it's no longer the case that "Keep in mind the new partition will be formatted in Arch Linux, so you can choose any partition type you want."
02:02 < neoncontrails> ?
02:02 < bls> neoncontrails: they seem to like to act like the two are the same, at least with the GUI
02:03 < bls> APFS is more like zfs or ext+lvm than the previous just a filesystem HFS
02:04 < bls> so what used to be partitions are now presented as APFS volumes
02:05 < bls> but what's underlying them is the APFS volume manager, and you can't put linux on one of its volumes
02:05 < bls> just like you'd have trouble booting windows off an LVM lv
02:08 < neoncontrails> bls: thanks for this, I'm going to see if I can find some updated instructions re: installing on APFS
02:11 < bls> diskutil apfs resizeContainer is what I've used to do this recently
02:12 < saderror256> can i use double qoutes so i dont have to include spaces? like /dir/this\ file/okay.txt but instead like "/dir/this file/okay.txt"
02:13 < ayecee> seems easy enough to test
02:16 < saderror256> ayecee, dude im writing an arch install script, i mean... i dont want to reinstall everytime!
02:16 < jnewt>  something happened to my usb stuff somehow.   i can't use my usb to serial converter, my scanner doesn't work.   the serial converter shows up in dmesg when i plug it in, but cutecom can't see it.   my scanner is seen by xsane and lsusb, but simple scan doesn't see it.
02:16 < bls> saderror256: you're not supposed to automate things. that's cheating/hand holding/bloat. also, shellcheck.net
02:17 < ayecee> o_O why would you have to reinstall every time to test something simple like that?
02:17 < bls> yeah, developing a script that requires a full arch reinstall between iterations could probably benefit from a test harness
02:18 < saderror256> "turns on brain"... wait, i could just use my host system.
02:18 < saderror256> bls, its just for fun? are you saying i should just continue doing it by hand... i think the point of scripting IS the automate tasks for you
02:20 < saderror256> thats like saying "automating tasks is stupid, real people do it command by command! stupid noob"
02:20 < bls> saderror256: that was a poke at the typical attitude that installers are for n00bs and if you're not doing things by hand, you're doing things in a suboptimal fashion!
02:20 < bls> not serious at all
02:20 < ayecee> because using arch
02:20 < saderror256> woooosh for me then... dang
02:21 < ayecee> hand optimize all the things
02:22 < syborg> Everybody knows this is the only real hackers use computers: https://www.xkcd.com/378/
02:22 < syborg> *only way
02:22 < ayecee> classic
02:22 < ayecee> err, i mean, OLD
02:23 < bls> parameterizing the script to write into something other than /, or a -n / dry run flag would probably be beneficial
02:23 < syborg> I'll go with classic
02:23 < ayecee> wise choice
02:24 < saderror256> bls, yeah, but... well, it would be painful to have to replace almost all my work, im typically patient
02:25 < pingfloyd> bls: lol, no doubt
02:25 < pingfloyd> all us automaters must be noobs
02:26 < ayecee> or robots
02:26 < syborg> or those aliens from They Live trying to increase profits more
02:26 < saderror256> ayecee, beep, boop, im a robotic sheep, boop
02:26 < bls> yep, bet you didn't even hand lay out your partition table and filesystem to ensure optimal write alignment
02:26 < saderror256> well im out, cya
02:26 < poteus> Hi guys.
02:27 < pingfloyd> the Aliens would be the Pottering crowd
02:27 < poteus> Looking for a tutorial to install mysql on Debian 9... any good link?
02:27 < bls> poteus: here's one: apt install mariadb
02:27 < poteus> looks easy :)
02:28 < compdoc> shortest tutorial on the interwebs
02:28 < poteus> huh, nice website. Does it work like mysql?  learning curve?
02:29 < ayecee> wat
02:29  * ayecee looks for a website
02:29 < xamithan> it is mysql but community
02:29 < xamithan> fork
02:29 < poteus> https://mariadb.org/
02:29 < compdoc> how do you plan to use it ?
02:29 < bls> poteus: it's a post-oracle-buying-mysql FOSS fork
02:29 < poteus> ok.
02:29 < pingfloyd> what the noobs fail to realize is that most of the programs (that don't hold your hand) that run on linux are designed to be used interactively or in an automated fashion.
02:30 < poteus> well, now I have some reading to do :)
02:30 < compdoc> do you need php and apache too?
02:30 < poteus> I will, yes.
02:30 < pingfloyd> poteus: mariadb is mysql except it's free software
02:30 < pingfloyd> mysql is oracle's abomination of open source/proprietary software
02:31 < poteus> I dont know in what hole I was hiding, but I thought that mysql was GNU...
02:31 < pingfloyd> so this is your chance to start off on the right foot from the start
02:31 < compdoc> might look at info on creating a lamp server, to make sure you get it all integrated, proper like
02:31 < poteus> I have been using it for a while, but I had to fresh install my home server.
02:31 < pingfloyd> poteus: oracle didn't always own mysql
02:31 < bls> and if you haven't done anything DB related yet and don't absolutely need maria/mysql, do yourself a favor and check out postgresql
02:31 < pingfloyd> poteus: they acquired it at some point and perverted it
02:32 < supernovah> real programmers write their own relational database engines from the ground up on a per-project basis
02:32 < pingfloyd> like they do with everything they consume
02:32 < poteus> I was playing with prometheus, but it has me struggling atm...
02:32 < pingfloyd> Oracle is like The Thing
02:32 < syborg> and issue queries by hand in binary, spooled in from hand punched tape
02:32 < poteus> my applications are 100% home related... nothing pro.
02:32 < bls> ah, for home stuff I just use sqlite
02:33 < bls> get my fill of battling mysql at work
02:33 < compdoc> postgresql has been reliable for me
02:33 < poteus> a couple of my application require mysql tho.
02:33 < bls> poteus: then mariadb for you it is
02:33 < poteus> is it going to work like mysql?
02:33 < poteus> ok
02:34 < poteus> apt install mariadb :))
02:34 < supernovah> I personally have a morse code input which is synced to a massively clock divided signal to input custom ps2 packets instead of typing. If I'm off by so much as a falling edge my CPU will seg fault.
02:34 < bls> unless you're using cutting edge mysql features not present in mariadb (which I don't thing there are any, oracle has been lagging), it'll drop in fine
02:34 < pingfloyd> poteus: mariadb is pretty much mysql except it has more features and is foss
02:35 < pingfloyd> poteus: read this https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/mariadb-vs-mysql-compatibility/
02:35 < bls> so pretty much: do you need percona? :P
02:36 < bls> just did a mysql-5.1 to mariadb-5.5 migration, and other than having to fix a bunch of braindead stuff mysql stupidly allows that mariadb has finally clamped down on, it was drop in
02:36 < pingfloyd> it's analogous to openjava vs. oracle java
02:38 < nekOwOseam> UwU hewwo guys
02:38 < poteus> Holy! Like a charm...
02:39 < pingfloyd> poteus: did it just work?
02:39 < poteus> except: ERROR 1524 (HY000): Plugin 'unix_socket' is not loaded
02:39 < poteus> lol
02:39 < jnewt> can't get gui apps to see usb devices.   currently neither scanner nor ftdi usb to serial converter work.   they worked previously, not sure what changed / happened.  both show in lsusb, sane-find-scanner shows the scanner (and the other usb devices), but I can't use simple scan
02:39 < jnewt> and i can't use cutecom (my preferred serial port ui)
02:40 < bls> jnewt: are those accessed via /dev entries? checked their permissions?
02:41 < pingfloyd> poteus: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/420530/error-1524-hy000-plugin-unix-socket-is-not-loaded-mysql?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa
02:41 < poteus> Thanks, reading.
02:41 < jnewt> bls: i am looking at the ls -la output from /dev.   i see a ttyUSB0   permissions 760 root dialout
02:42 < jnewt> my user is in the dialout group
02:42 < jnewt> i don't know how to tell what ttyUSB0 is though
02:43 < jnewt> bls: are those permissions OK?
02:44 < poteus> pingfloyd Perfect! That worked.
02:44 < bls> I don't know, it was just a quick guess. never debugged a scanner before
02:44 < poteus> Thank you guys.
02:46 < supernovah> udevadm info --query=all -n /dev/ttyUSBX
02:46 < supernovah> Will tell you what the entry is
02:51 < ayecee> nice
03:05 < Evidlo> the acpi daemon is so damn unreliable
03:07 < bls> it's not exactly working with a solid technology
03:07 < ayecee> firmware, the red-headed stepchild of the software world
03:08 < supernovah> if you use cut to divvy up a string, is there a \1 \2 (etc) that indicates, the rest of the string after \1, or \2 etc?
03:08 < bls> or the crappy hardware, patched in crappy firmware, patched in its special (windows only) drivers
03:09 < ayecee> kludges all the way down
03:09 < bls> echo 1:2:3:4 | cut -d: -f2-
03:09 < bls> or echo 1:2:3:4 | cut -d: -f1,3-
03:09 < supernovah> ty bls
03:10 < Evidlo> its not even the driver stuff built in.  I have a few acpi scripts I rely on and they all broke completely after a system upgrade
03:20 < jim> 07IAC2TXY, so you're here because you have a linux issue, question or discussion point?
03:25 < pingfloyd> and then you get users saying, "but it worked in Windows"
03:26 < pingfloyd> they don't understand why it works only there, or what dirty tricks were played along the way.
03:26 < pingfloyd> and then they blame foss for the manufacturer bending them over like that
03:40 < Evidlo> wow, 'acpid reload' leaves all the old events registered so acpi calls my scripts repeatedly for the same event
03:46 < minipini> Hello guys, quick question. I've taken a HDD from my old mac and i'm trying to recover the pictures/data...when I try to access the data it tells me it's read only...
03:47 < rypervenche> minipini: Is that a problem?
03:47 < rypervenche> minipini: If you're trying to recover data, you should be mounting that drive in read-only mode.
03:48 < minipini> so when i try to find through a finder it tells me i can't because of permissions
03:48 < minipini> sorry not very good english
03:49 < ayecee> uh oh
03:49 < ayecee> he's put the drive into a different mac
03:49 < ayecee> and he thinks that this relates to linux somehow
03:49 < mgolisch> why are in a linux channel_
03:49 < minipini> no,,,
03:50 < minipini> i had an old mac and now i want to access the files in linux...which have permission problems
03:50 < ayecee> how did you mount it
03:50 < autopsy> minipini, a finder? Like what autopsy?
03:50 < ayecee> what filesystem does it use
03:51 < minipini> im using dolphin finder
03:51 < ayecee> what is the error message you receive
03:51 < ayecee> and what were you doing when you got that error message
03:51 < autopsy> What is the world coming to?
03:51 < minipini> and i mounted it manually but also mounts at startup
03:51 < ayecee> what was the command you used to mount it manually
03:51 < autopsy> minipini, you can use mount -o remount,rw to remount it.
03:52 < minipini> i need to change the folders from red only to write/read.....? possible?
03:52 < ayecee> can't tell. you haven't answered any of the questions.
03:52 < autopsy> minipini, you need o+rx
03:52 < syborg> why do you need to be able to write to it, if you are just trying to copy files off of it?
03:52 < rypervenche> syborg: ^
03:52 < autopsy> Need execute to traverse directories.
03:52 < ayecee> syborg: because the permissions don't allow him to descend into the directories as a user
03:52 < ayecee> because for some reason he's browsing it as a user.
03:53 < autopsy> ayecee, +1
03:53 < syborg> write permissions would help with that? I can see execute, by why write?
03:53 < syborg> *write mounting option
03:53 < autopsy> He doesn't know.
03:53 < autopsy> Haha.
03:53 < ayecee> syborg: he needs write access to apply that permission
03:53 < autopsy> Oh he needs to be root.
03:53 < syborg> makes sense
03:54 < rypervenche> Still feel this is being done all the wrong way.
03:54 < ayecee> yup
03:54 < minipini> because when i try to copy a file off it tells me it's read only
03:54 < autopsy> You need write to apply execute permissions.
03:54 < mgolisch> can linux do that at all_
03:54 < ayecee> minipini: what was the command you used to mount it manually?
03:54 < mgolisch> not sure it can mount hfs+ read/write
03:54 < ayecee> is it hfs?
03:54 < pingfloyd> doesn't macos also use ACLs?
03:54 < autopsy> Maybe.
03:54 < mgolisch> its a mac hard disk
03:55 < ayecee> let's maybe find out first.
03:55 < mgolisch> what else would it use
03:55 < autopsy> HPFS
03:55 < ayecee> if it is hfs, there's a mount option to set the owner of files.
03:55 < pingfloyd> not sure why you should have any problems accessing any of it as root though
03:55 < pingfloyd> what kind of insane perms is macos setting?
03:55 < autopsy> He's having a hard time coping as root.
03:55 < ayecee> pingfloyd: he's not doing it as root. he's doing it via dolphin finder, i.e. as the user he's logged in as.
03:56 < pingfloyd> that's his first problem though
03:56 < pingfloyd> *ten
03:56 < pingfloyd> then
03:56 < ayecee> hardly the first
03:56 < ayecee> one of them, though
03:56 < pingfloyd> yeah, this is beyond XY-problem
03:56 < autopsy> He's gone.
03:57 < autopsy> What is /run/utmp?
03:57 < ayecee> man, i can't imagine processing the burble that goes on here in a second langauge.
03:57 < minipini> so once i'm the right location and in SU...can i change thoer permissions to reaed/write?
03:57 < ayecee> autopsy: man utmp says
03:57 < autopsy> ayecee, ah didn't know there was a manual for it.
03:57 < ayecee> minipini: can't tell. you never answer questions.
03:57 < pingfloyd> minipini: read only should be fine for the source
03:57 < pingfloyd> where you're copying to (destination) must have write access
03:58 < ayecee> minipini: pretty good chance you cannot change permissions.
03:58 < pingfloyd> if anything readonly is a preferable state to have your source in.
03:58 < ayecee> pingfloyd has only read half the question.
03:58 < minipini> <ayecee> minipini: pretty good chance you cannot change permissions.     how come?
03:58 < ayecee> minipini: can't tell. you never answer questions.
03:59 < ayecee> answer this: what filesystem does it use? that is, how do you mount it manually?
03:59 < minipini> would someone be so kind to PM me so i can go through this step by step?
04:00 < ayecee> jesus christ in heaven
04:00 < ayecee> no
04:00 < pingfloyd> minipini: how about just answer the 3 key questions that were asked instead
04:01 < Psi-Jack> Who? Where?
04:01 < Sveta> minipini: no private messages please, it makes it difficult as it places the burden on one person
04:01 < Sveta> minipini: step by step in here if you kindly do not mind
04:01 < Sveta> minipini: one, what filesystem does it use
04:01 < Sveta> minipini: hello
04:01 < ayecee> one thing that does not help is repeating the question. it's more words to read.
04:02 < pingfloyd> what filesystem type is it? what mount command have you used/tried? what error message(s) were returned?
04:02 < Sveta> minipini: --^
04:02 < Sveta> minipini: please say something
04:02 < ayecee> please be patient. he's dealing with a language barrier.
04:02 < Sveta> ayecee: perhaps they're blind and are using speech to text to write
04:02 < Sveta> ayecee: I am not sure
04:02 < ayecee> not sure about what
04:03 < Sveta> ayecee: whether it is the case
04:03 < pingfloyd> no problem, take you time, and don't be afraid to ask for help in finding that info out (like what commands to run to find out).
04:03 < ayecee> Sveta: he literally said "sorry not very good english"
04:03 < Sveta> ayecee: oh ok
04:04 < minipini> I'm probably in the wrong place to ask help ;) too hardcore for me...i'll go back and read some more and come back in a while........got to say though, i'm not the smartest...but doesn't feel welcoming in here....obviously need to know my shit :D
04:04 < minipini> thanks anyways!
04:04 < ayecee> probably for the best
04:05 < ayecee> language barrier plus entitled is a bad combo
04:05 < rypervenche> Didn't sound like a language barrier.
04:06 < pingfloyd> more of a lack of humility barrier
04:06 < Sveta> mgolisch: hello
04:06 < mgolisch> ?
04:07 < Sveta> mgolisch: I am just saying hello :)
04:07 < syborg> Oh hey mgolisch, what's up?
04:07 < mgolisch> not much, way over my bedtime
04:07 < mgolisch> but i cant stop netflixing
04:07 < mgolisch> :(
04:08 < Sveta> what are you watching?
04:09 < mgolisch> suits
04:09 < pingfloyd> I'm watching Space's Deepest Secrets
04:10 < ayecee> what are you wearing?
04:11 < mgolisch> is that important?
04:11 < ayecee> of course not
04:12 < mgolisch> anyways have a good night, time to sleep
04:12 < pingfloyd> it's more important what you're not wearing
04:12 < ayecee> what's worn under there? nothing is worn under there, ma'am.
04:17 < cmptr> Is there a way I can add a boot entry for UBCD into GRUB so I don't have to boot from a USB?
04:25 < sippandsap> Hi
04:26 < Sveta> hi sippandsap
04:26 < Tech_8> hi
04:27 < Sveta> hello Tech_8 :)
04:27 < Tech_8> hi Sveta
04:27 < Sveta> how are you? :)
04:27 < Tech_8> good and you?
04:27 < Sveta> a little sleepy but ok otherwise
04:27 < Tech_8> cool
04:28 < Sveta> planning to buy a desktop computer for home use possibly soon, the previous one was a laptop but it is slowly falling apart
04:28 < Tech_8> oh cool
04:28 < Sveta> also more hard drives, i'm seeding debian images from them and this fills up disk space very quickly
04:28 < Tech_8> do ou game
04:29 < Tech_8> you*
04:29 < Sveta> i game sometimes, but not very often
04:29 < Tech_8> do you build your own computer
04:29 < Tech_8> or buy one
04:29 < Sveta> i prefer to watch videos of how to do new things and learn from them
04:29 < Sveta> i bought a laptop in 2009 before, but now i don't know what to do, i'd like it to be as non-proprietary as possible (open hardware if that works)
04:30 < Sveta> but that's too much to learn, it'll take me a while
04:30 < Sveta> perhaps i learn before the current laptop dies completely, that'd be wonderful :)
04:30 < Tech_8> learn what
04:30 < Sveta> the modern hardware market
04:31 < Sveta> what about you? do you game? what computer do you use or build?
04:31 < syborg> Sveta have you seen these machines? https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-x200/
04:31 < pingfloyd> my laptop died a little while ago
04:31 < syborg> not exactly open hardware but better than most options
04:31 < pingfloyd> then I bought a new and installed debian on it.  Then ironically the old laptop started working again.
04:32 < Sveta> syborg: yes, they're on my list of things I can get without much learning :) they're not open hardware, so if there is an open hardware alternative, i'll probably prefer that
04:32 < Sveta> pingfloyd: now you have two :)
04:32 < pingfloyd> I wonder if maybe I had spilled bong water into or something without realizing and it started working again because it dried out.
04:32 < Sveta> syborg: it is better indeed :)
04:32 < Sveta> syborg: i'm looking at used lenovo thinkpads in the local area to see if there's any being sold cheaper
04:32 < pingfloyd> the new laptop I only payed $300 for and it runs linux great
04:32 < Sveta> syborg: but they've got plenty of wrong models, not the ones libreboot is compatible with
04:33 < pingfloyd> this kind of works out better in the long run
04:33 < Sveta> pingfloyd: which one did you get as new?
04:33 < pingfloyd> HP Notebook 15-f271wm
04:33 < syborg> I have given up on laptops as I am highly talented at destroying them. I cannot fight the urge to tinker but laptops are so flimsy, and I am so good at mutilating them despite the best of intentions :-(
04:34 < Sveta> syborg: makes sense :)
04:34 < syborg> now I have a craptop and rely on my desktop, which is on track to last forever
04:34 < pingfloyd> in terms of build quality it feels cheap and plasticky, but its good for linux compatibility
04:35 < pingfloyd> you can't expect miracles with a $300 laptop, but it might surprise you how well one works if you pick the right one.
04:35 < n-iCe> oik I have some questions
04:35 < morf> oink
04:35 < syborg> capitalist swine
04:35 < n-iCe> I bought a tv monitor for my laptop, it is VGA
04:35 < Blade> pingfloyd: xubuntu an fly  300$ laptop
04:35 < n-iCe> But the image in the screen is not completed, part of the laptop screen is missing, what can I do?
04:36 < morf> damn he knows me
04:36 < syborg> like it is cropped off, n-iCe?
04:36 < n-iCe> yes!
04:36 < syborg> overscan
04:36 < n-iCe> that's that :D
04:36 < n-iCe> what's
04:36 < syborg> you can probably adjust it in the tv settings
04:36 < syborg> if not, you can tweak the settings on your laptop
04:36 < n-iCe> tried both
04:36 < n-iCe> but is not perfect
04:36 < Tech_8> how big is the tv
04:37 < n-iCe> 32"
04:37 < pingfloyd> is it a CRT or something?
04:37 < n-iCe> somehow arch linux says 72"
04:37 < n-iCe> but is not
04:38 < pingfloyd> sounds like arch is having problems reading its edid
04:38 < n-iCe> 1360 x 768 is the current resolution looks awesome, but is cutting edges
04:38 < n-iCe> pingfloyd: it is a sony bravia
04:39 < Tech_8> that sucks
04:39 < Tech_8> they probaly have 32" lcd monitors
04:39 < n-iCe> I can't do it dammit
04:39 < pingfloyd> n-iCe: https://hackaday.com/2012/06/20/getting-root-on-a-sony-tv/
04:40 < syborg> n-iCe, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/xrandr#Correction_of_overscan_tv_resolutions_via_the_underscan_property
04:40 < syborg> to answer your earlier question, overscan is the name of the problem you are having
04:41 < n-iCe> but is not the tv
04:41 < Tech_8> n-iCe: are you using linux
04:41 < syborg> still might be able to fix it with xrandr
04:41 < n-iCe> if I set the resolution slower I see the whole screen inside my tv, but I can't see whe whole arch linux display
04:41 < n-iCe> ok will try xrandr
04:42 < syborg> try using underscan on your inbuilt display
04:42 < n-iCe> there is a gui for it, right?
04:42 < syborg> nope
04:42 < n-iCe> yes, arandr
04:42 < n-iCe> just found it, let me try
04:42 < n-iCe> THANKS
04:42 < syborg> ok, good :-)
04:42 < syborg> hope it works on the inbuilt one, I have only used that for correcting a TV image before
04:44 < n-iCe> display is great
04:45 < n-iCe> is just not showing the right part of the screen
04:45 < n-iCe> no idea how
04:45 < Tech_8> did it fix it
04:45 < n-iCe> why
04:45 < Tech_8> are you doing clone or extended desktop
04:45 < n-iCe> good question
04:46 < Tech_8> clone same image on laptop shows on tv screen, extended it shows a blank screen on tv and you can drag stuff to that desktop like icons and stuff
04:47 < n-iCe> DAAAAAAAAAMN
04:47 < n-iCe> I LOOOOOOOOOOVE YOU Tech_8
04:47  * n-iCe kisses Tech_8 
04:47  * n-iCe jumps on syborg 
04:47 < Tech_8> really did it fix it
04:47 < n-iCe> thank you guys, I did cloned the imagge
04:47 < n-iCe> yes! just cloned the image, and set a new resolution worked fiiiiiiiine
04:47 < Tech_8> and it works?
04:48 < n-iCe> yes!
04:48 < n-iCe> look
04:49 < n-iCe> https://photos.app.goo.gl/0CXPdWlqKtj5z8DA2
04:49 < n-iCe> you see? :D
04:51 < Tech_8> thank you for using IRC, anything else I can help you with today sir?
04:52 < syborg> nice, n-iCe :-)
04:54 < NginUS> Just discovered XMarks is no more. What are we all using to sync bookmarks between Chrome & Firefox nowadays?
04:59 < phinxy> Is there hibernation on Linux?
04:59 < Psi-Jack> There is.
05:01 < n-iCe> Tech_8: hehe thanks!
05:01 < Tech_8> n-iCe: np
05:01 < pingfloyd> NginUS: why bother with chrome at all?
05:02 < Psi-Jack> NginUS: I don't. I just don't use Firefox.
05:02 < pingfloyd> firefox sync handles keeping bookmarks, among other things, synced between many computers and devices though
05:03 < NginUS> pingfloyd: Been using it ever since back when it was faster than Firefox. Just used to it after all this time- only started trying to migrate to Firefox tonight.
05:03 < pingfloyd> NginUS: can chrome export the bookmarks?
05:04 < pingfloyd> in some more universal format such as html file
05:04 < NginUS> pingfloyd: Yea- I have a .html of them I can import.
05:04 < pingfloyd> won't keep them in sync, but it will help with migration
05:05 < pingfloyd> in your case, you probably want to keep your bookmarks with some bookmarking service
05:06 < NginUS> Might just keep them seperate, until maybe the day comes I want to switch back permanently, In which case I can import
05:10 < pingfloyd> NginUS: you could just share an html file with all your links
05:10 < pingfloyd> like instead of using bookmarking, maintain an html file that you can share with anything anywhere.
05:11 < Tech_8> isnt delcious a book marking service
05:11 < pingfloyd> that could be as simple as keeping a file in dropbox to putting up a web server you can connect to
05:11 < pingfloyd> yeah delicious is one of the more well known services
05:11 < pingfloyd> but you can basically do that same thing they do yourself.
05:12 < pingfloyd> i.e., create your own "service" for yourself run how you want
05:14 < NginUS> I'd have to script updating it, likely some service would automate that. AlternativeTo.net mentions start.me is popular
05:19 < WorldGenesis> what's the best documentation for reading up on ELF binaries? o.o
05:19 < WorldGenesis> e.g format structure
05:19 < games_> hi
05:20 < games_> what's a good laptop to get for Java development
05:20 < games_> my only reqs are 32g of memory and Linux compatibility
05:20 < ayecee> lenovo thinkpad
05:21 < ayecee> t series
05:23 < games_> hm aren't Thinkpads bulky
05:23 < ayecee> you gonna add more requirements now eh
05:23 < games_> heh
05:24 < ayecee> the thinkpads i've bought recently haven't been especially bulky.
05:24 < games_> do they still have that rubber thingy in the middle of the keyboard
05:24 < ayecee> yup
05:24 < ayecee> but also a trackpad
05:24 < games_> do you use them, the rubber thing
05:24 < ayecee> i mostly use it docked, so no
05:24 < pingfloyd> clit mouse
05:24 < pingfloyd> I hate those
05:25 < pingfloyd> it's like the worst of a cross between a joystick and mouse.
05:25 < autopsy> LOL
05:25 < ayecee> when i'm using it mobile, i tend to use the trackpad, but i still sometimes use the nipple.
05:25 < k_sze[work]> How can I drop the LVM2 snapshot of my rootfs while the OS is running?
05:26 < pingfloyd> really one of things to be picky about with a laptop is its touchpad
05:26 < pingfloyd> their quality is so hit and miss between laptops
05:26 < autopsy> My touchpad is smooth as ice.
05:26 < ayecee> my touchpad is hot as fire
05:26 < pingfloyd> unless you plan to be mouse dependent in your travels
05:26 < ayecee> jk i just like similes
05:26 < autopsy> You can get a USB mouse.
05:26 < Konichiwa> pingfloyd, fingermouse works well
05:27 < ayecee> yeah, usb mouse is ideal in most cases.
05:27 < k_sze[work]> If I try `sudo lvremove intraid/rootfs-snapshot`, I get "  Logical volume intraid/root-snapshot in use.
05:27 < k_sze[work]> "
05:27 < pingfloyd> Konichiwa: maybe, but anything that is an accessory is extra to forget to bring, pack with you, etc.
05:27 < autopsy> Mini USB mouse I saw.
05:27 < k_sze[work]> But it's not actually mounted.
05:27 < k_sze[work]> Do I need to deactivate the lv first? Can I?
05:28 < Konichiwa> pingfloyd, the finger/ring mouse, you don't have to take off...keep it on forever like a wedding band ;)
05:28 < autopsy> Never heard of a finger mouse.
05:28 < ayecee> the downside is you have a bulky ring
05:29 < Konichiwa> https://oasis1.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/ring-mouse4.jpg
05:29 < k_sze[work]> I get the same "Logical volume intraid/root-snapshot in use." message even with `sudo lvremove -f intraid/root-snapshot`.
05:29 < Konichiwa> ayecee, could always mod it into like a brass knuckle?  Multi-service
05:30 < ayecee> ruggedized
05:31 < ayecee> goes well with a panasonic toughbook that you can use to beat intruders and stop bullets
05:31 < ayecee> especially with the arm mount
05:32 < BenderRodriguez> dear linux
05:32 < BenderRodriguez> I need help figuring out why my ryzen based system locks up a few hours after reboot
05:32 < BenderRodriguez> or in some cases minutes
05:33 < BenderRodriguez> I see there's an abrt "oops" event generated with the following error: NMI watchdog: BUG: soft lockup - CPU#11 stuck for 22s! [kworker/11:4:1601]
05:33 < pingfloyd> a toughbook is the computer equivalent of wearing a helmet though.
05:33 < BenderRodriguez> A CPU core stuck for 22 seconds sounds serious
05:33 < BenderRodriguez> is it saying it's stuck executing a single instruction for 22 seconds?
05:33 < BenderRodriguez> or something low level beyond my ability to understand
05:33 < BenderRodriguez> and what can I do about this
05:37 < ayecee> more or less yes, and identify what it's stuck on.
05:37 < ayecee> quite often it's disk io.
05:37 < Konichiwa> BenderRodriguez, have you recently updated your kernel?
05:37 < ayecee> this could happen if the disk is very busy, or the disk is going bad.
05:38 < pingfloyd> or bad cable
05:38 < ayecee> or if it's a network mount, if there's a brief network drop
05:38 < autopsy> An NFS shared volume.
05:40 < Pentode> i've seen that kind of thing happen with low vcore voltages / bad power supplies
05:40 < ayecee> also aliens
05:40 < ayecee> you never know
05:40 < Pentode> ive never seen io cause cpus to hang tho that doesnt mean it cant happen ;)
05:40 < pingfloyd> being io bound does that
05:41 < pingfloyd> often you'll notice very high load averages when that's the case
05:41 < ayecee> fun fact, we never got those error messages before multicore
05:41 < Pentode> you'd think there would be other symptoms though?
05:41 < Pentode> lol
05:41 < pingfloyd> maybe there is
05:42 < pingfloyd> they've just been overlooked so far
05:42 < ayecee> i normally see that warning at like 120sec
05:42 < ayecee> and by normally, i mean when the disk is slammed or dying
05:42 < BenderRodriguez> Konichiwa: no it 's a new install, no network mounts
05:43 < Pentode> try running the system from another disk / cable or alternate controller on the board
05:43 < autopsy> BenderRodriguez, what is it Fedora?
05:43 < BenderRodriguez> CentOS
05:43 < autopsy> BenderRodriguez, don't they have a bugzilla?
05:44 < Konichiwa> BenderRodriguez, is that a Ryzen 1700?
05:45 < BenderRodriguez> here's part of the kernel oops report generated
05:45 < BenderRodriguez> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/3d747d8f/
05:46 < BenderRodriguez> Ryzen 5 1600X
05:46 < BenderRodriguez> something in the network stack seems to cause it
05:47 < BenderRodriguez> I'm on v 3.10 of the kernel
05:47 < BenderRodriguez> I'm going to try to bump it up to latest stable and see if that fixes anything
05:47 < BenderRodriguez> I'm too tired to go down this rabbit hole today
05:48 < games_> is 250gb enough for a hd
05:48 < ayecee> games_: yes
05:48 < ayecee> BenderRodriguez: this is a network io hang
05:48 < Pentode> not a bad idea. maybe it's the controller?
05:48 < ayecee> you can tell because of the inet_ehashfn on the call trace.
05:49 < ayecee> i don't know why it would hang there though
05:53 < ayecee> like the proverb goes, a stacktrace is worth a thousand words
06:01 < the_document> howcome my cpu never goes to its boost state of 4Ghz? (monitoring with cpupower frequency-info) my other laptop goes to its boost state but not this new laptop
06:02 < Styil> is it enabled in the bios
06:02 < cmj> eh?
06:02 < autopsy> the_document, not enough data to process.
06:02 < the_document> autopsy: im compiling/emerging bunch of stuff
06:02 < the_document> Styil: what do i look for in bios?
06:02 < autopsy> Give it a burn-in assembler file to run.
06:02 < the_document> maybe if i disable virtulazation?
06:03 < Kremator> never ever disable virtualization
06:03 < the_document> whyy
06:03 < Kremator> if you do it, then the computer stuff gets too real
06:03 < cmj> did you press the turbo button?
06:03 < the_document> Kremator: but if i dont use qemu/vb
06:03 < autopsy> T urbo LOL.
06:03 < Kremator> like for example, your liberoffice starts to tell you that yoou have not dropped out college
06:03 < Styil> dont disable virtualization, see if turbo boost is enabled
06:03 < the_document> haha
06:03 < the_document> ehh
06:03 < autopsy> What proc is it?
06:04 < Kremator> turbo boost? are we talking about intel then
06:04 < the_document> i7 8550u
06:04 < autopsy> Oh thats a good one. 4GHz huh.
06:04 < the_document> im dissapointed cause my amd 12 can do turbo and I can monitor it too
06:04 < the_document> me thinks something in kernel
06:04 < Kremator> just get another nwer amd then
06:04 < the_document> Kremator: stop
06:05 < autopsy> the_document, can't you tweak something in /proc for cpufrequency?
06:05 < Kremator> the_document, which distro and which kernel?
06:05 < the_document> gentoo 4.9.95
06:05 < the_document> i choose performance for govenor
06:05 < Kremator> rip
06:05 < Kremator> how does the cpu "behaves" on demand?
06:05 < autopsy> rip what?
06:06 < Kremator> try putting the governor in "ondemand" and see if the turbo boost does works
06:06 < autopsy> On demandastration.
06:06 < Kremator> what
06:06 < Kremator> demandastration?
06:06 < the_document> Kremator: i had it ondemand but it was 1.80ghz
06:06 < autopsy> Yeah sucka.
06:06 < the_document> same thing with performance
06:06 < the_document> i will boot ubuntu and check it out
06:07 < autopsy> 1.8GHz thats half.
06:07 < the_document> less than
06:07 < autopsy> the_document, boot Fedora.
06:07 < Kremator> the_document, with the cpu on demand, did you tried running some heavy stuff? it wont scale to higher clocks unless it is necesary?
06:07 < the_document> YES
06:07 < the_document> compiling 15 apps at once
06:07 < autopsy> Neccessary.
06:07 < the_document> emerge -j15
06:07 < autopsy> make -j8
06:07 < the_document> yea make is 8 in make.conf
06:07 < Kremator> oh ok, maybe your cpu is too STRONG that compiling 15 apṕs is nothing for him ;)
06:08 < the_document> yea actually can be
06:08 < Kremator> just kidding, try to boot ubuntu or debin
06:08 < the_document> but unlikely
06:08 < Kremator> if debian, try with debain 9.4
06:08 < autopsy> Fedora has good kernels.
06:08 < Kremator> autopsy, all distros have good kernels
06:08 < autopsy> HYeah.
06:08 < the_document> why does alsa make poping noises when doing speaker-test -t sine -f 2000
06:08 < autopsy> Except Slackware.
06:08 < Kremator> but does all kernels have a good distro?
06:09 < autopsy> Nobody knows.
06:09 < Kremator> ^
06:09 < the_document> ok lets see in bios
06:09 < autopsy> Check the BIOS.
06:09 < Kremator> the_document, if it is not too much hassle, try to install (binary, just for the test) a more stable kernel, like 4.9.0.1
06:09 < the_document> what is Vt-d?
06:10 < Kremator> Vt-d have to do with virtualization
06:10 < Kremator> sometimes called Vt-x right?
06:10 < autopsy> Virtualization.
06:10 < autopsy> For processor instructions.
06:10 < the_document> nothing about turbo in bios
06:11 < autopsy> the_document, try a hardware jumper on the motherboard.
06:11 < Kremator> the_document, try another kernel, a sligthly newer or older one
06:11 < autopsy> Newer one if at all.
06:11 < autopsy> 4.16.9
06:11 < Kremator> go big or go home much autopsy?
06:11 < autopsy> yeah buddies.
06:12 < the_document> ok booting ubuntu
06:12 < autopsy> Processor frequency started at 1.8GHz.
06:12 < the_document> it goes lower when idling
06:12 < autopsy> I see.
06:12 < the_document> which is a good thing cause my amd does not
06:13 < the_document> wonder if amd will ever bean intel in single threaded
06:13 < the_document> the thing that actually matters
06:13 < Kremator> hey guys btw, i read that lubuntu is gonna migrate their DE (MATE) fully to Qt, and i read it was already in lubuntu 18.10 (the testing nightly build) thos eupdates gonna get rolled in for the LTS lubuntu right? or they will integrate the newer features (qT) in the next LTS (20.04)?
06:14 < the_document> or will they just keep selling their cpus under the guise of moar cores than intel
06:14 < Kremator> the_document, you should check up on ryzen, they are pretty much equal on IPC vs modern intels
06:15 < the_document> they are not
06:15 < the_document> they are using the moar cores thing
06:15 < Kremator> nonono, im talking about IPC in single threaded stuff
06:15 < the_document> show me
06:16 < Kremator> usually this is the kind of stuff where the otherwise useless gaming benchmarks works, because all games works in singlethreaded only these days still
06:16 < the_document> original ryzen was not close
06:16 < the_document> and single threaded is important for way more thangs than gaming
06:16 < Kremator> the_document, i think amd already released a "second gen" of the ryzen, i see it called Zen+
06:16 < Kremator> but idk
06:17 < Kremator> the_document, like what? rendering? procesing heavy Databases?
06:17 < ayecee> any task that cannot be easily rendered into parallel subtasks.
06:18 < the_document> Kremator: like portage
06:18 < ayecee> there's a rule about this and i can't remember the name.
06:18 < Kremator> ayecee, yeah, the thing is, 5-7% of difference is not going to be seeable in most of those task
06:19 < ayecee> if the remaining time is idle time, sure
06:19 < ayecee> ah, Amdahl's Law
06:19 < Kremator> again anyways, who cares about them, the_document you should be booting the i7 with ubuntu to check if that kernel can activate the other freqs.
06:20 < the_document> Kremator: its booted to ubuntu trying to install cpupower
06:20 < the_document> cannot figure out why apt-get install cpupower not working
06:20 < the_document> cannot find
06:20 < Kremator> try apt update first
06:20 < ayecee> or, as i've heard it described, one strong ox is better than a thousand chickens, no matter how cleverly harnessed.
06:20 < Kremator> sudo apt update && sudo apt install cpupower
06:21 < Kremator> ayecee, strong ox?
06:21 < ayecee> did i stutter?
06:21 < Kremator> idk what is a "ox"
06:21 < ayecee> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ox
06:22 < ayecee> bovine trained as a draft animal, often castrated
06:22 < ayecee> bull or cow
06:22 < the_document> found it
06:22 < the_document> ok we will see
06:23 < ayecee> Kremator: what's the spanish term for that?
06:23 < Kremator> the_document, the legend says that if you put wget to mirror infinetlly and recursively way pornhub you would get 5 Ghz on most processors :P
06:23 < Kremator> ayecee, let me see, i have never ever pronunciated anything like that, we just say cows or bulls
06:23 < ayecee> nah. you'd be io bound long before.
06:24 < ayecee> Kremator: what would you call a cow or bull that pulled a plow?
06:24 < Kremator> wait what
06:24 < the_document> ehh
06:24 < ayecee> ?
06:24  * Kremator 's translation unit kernel panics
06:24 < the_document> I will have to download fedora
06:24 < the_document> boo
06:25 < ayecee> Kremator: google translate says buey, does that make sense?
06:25 < Kremator> ayecee, the spanish term is either ternera or res
06:25 < Kremator> ayecee, yes, but buey its more like spainiard spanish
06:25 < ayecee> that would make sense
06:25 < Kremator> here in latinamerica we use more "ternera"
06:25 < ayecee> google translate seems to favor that
06:26 < ayecee> huh. translate says "ternera" is veal, which is much different from your locale.
06:27 < ayecee> in english, veal is the meat from baby cattle
06:27 < Kremator> ayecee, yes, but here people have msitakenly used a lot of words by generations now because dumbfucks that never learned how to speak
06:27 < ayecee> heh
06:27 < ayecee> the great thing about standards is that there's so many to choose from
06:27 < autopsy> Learn how to speak yung wun.
06:27 < Kremator> ayecee, yeah, but "ternera" while does have that original meaning, now it does also means "fresh ox"
06:27 < ayecee> like young ox?
06:27 < autopsy> Fresh.
06:28 < Kremator> also we have "cordero" == "ternera" but i think cordero is for gnus
06:28 < autopsy> Young n fresh.
06:28 < Kremator> autopsy,like myself after my monthly bath
06:28 < autopsy> Kremator, did yuo just have too many hot dogs?
06:28 < ayecee> translate gives "res" as "beef", which is closer somehow
06:28 < ayecee> Kremator: thanks for this. i'm studying spanish, and it's interesting to see the dialects.
06:28 < Kremator> ayecee, wanna hear about another funny mistranslation that happened here over the generation?
06:29 < ayecee> yes!
06:29 < Kremator> there was once upon a time, a company called McAndDeals that used to sell high quality tools in venezuela
06:29 < ayecee> i mean, sure
06:29 < Kremator> that was in the 70's
06:29 < Kremator> well, the company went bankrupt in the 80s thanks to corruption and a lot of things im not into atm
06:29 < Kremator> the thing is
06:30 < Kremator> people, specially, "lower economy bracket" part of the society started saying "agarraron sus mcanddeals y se fueron"
06:30 < Kremator> with the time
06:30 < Kremator> the mcanddeals was transformed into "macundales"
06:30 < Kremator> now the word "macundales" means "your stuff"
06:31 < ayecee> heh
06:31 < Kremator> ex : mother "mijo, ve y recoje tus macundales del patio". english = "son, go and pickup your toys from backyard"
06:31 < Kremator> ayecee, another even bigger one
06:32 < Kremator> the electrical tape here, is called "teipe"
06:32 < Kremator> and it came from the bad pronunciation of "Tape"
06:32 < ayecee> makes sense
06:32 < Kremator> so people here started adding a "i" pronunciation at the end, now electrical tape here is "teipe" lol
06:32 < ayecee> i don't get that one. teipe means something else too?
06:33 < Kremator> this last one, is so ingrained here, that if you would go to a store and ask for "electrical tape" they would think of you as an autist
06:33 < ayecee> heh
06:33 < ||JD||> Kremator: all those examples you are giving are probably specific from your country or region
06:33 < ayecee> necesito teipe por favor
06:33 < Kremator> ||JD||, indeed, i specified that at the beggining
06:34 < ayecee> jd: yeah, we're doing local dialects here.
06:34 < Kremator> ayecee, no chamo, no hay, venite mañana que me llegan de colombia
06:34 < ayecee> ah, i was looking at the domain
06:34 < the_document> I seriously dobut the intel will go to 4ghz for some reason
06:34 < the_document> I think its normal
06:35 < the_document> well find out when fedora downloads/boots
06:35 < autopsy> the-document try cpufreq-tools
06:35 < Kremator> the_document, have you considered that MAYBE the tool that you are using to measure the freq is wrong?
06:35 < autopsy> the_document, yeah use Fedora kernel 4.13
06:35 < autopsy> Yeah the tools could be wrong.
06:36 < the_document> cool my laptop has bluetooth
06:36 < the_document> blueteeth
06:36 < Kremator> which laptop doesnt have bt
06:36  * Kremator 's doesnt
06:37 < the_document> my amd lappy
06:37 < the_document> mebe it does i just dont know
06:37 < Kremator> yeah, maybe your distro doesnt have installed the kernel module for the BT driver
06:38 < the_document> autopsy: i have reason te belive tools are wrong cause amd idles at 1.3ghz which is HIGH, the boost state is 2.8ghz and max boost is 3.4ghz
06:38 < the_document> Kremator: thats not how gentoo works
06:38 < Kremator> btw guys, usually how is the process of installing an external driver in linux? today i had to install one for a laptop with debian 9, but the process was smooth as silk because the repository even had a whole script to automatically make everything
06:39 < the_document> what do you mean "external" driver? a kernel module?
06:39 < Kremator> the_document, true, you have to compile the kernel WITH the module first :/
06:40 < Kremator> a kernel drivers that wasnt installed/detected even in the non-free installatios/repositories
06:40 < the_document> was pretty cool to play red alert 2 on wine
06:40 < ayecee> Kremator: it can be a pain if you need that during install. otherwise it's fairly painless.
06:40 < Kremator> the_document, well, funny enough, i have found Diablo 2 works better out the box in wine that with Win7
06:41 < the_document> Kremator: are you a barbarian?
06:41 < Kremator> yeap, why?
06:41 < the_document> hehe
06:41 < Kremator> frenzy build atm :P
06:41 < the_document> Kremator: cause asking if you were a necromancer would be weird
06:42 < ayecee> heh
06:42 < the_document> or that female character
06:42 < Kremator> yeah i know, i necromancer wouldnt precisely want to "burn" his prime matter
06:42 < ayecee> do you like dead things? i mean, really like dead things?
06:42 < Kremator> the demon hunter?
06:42 < Kremator> ayecee, real dead things? neither like or dislike
06:42 < the_document> yea those are called rogues iirc
06:42 < Kremator> magical dead things? i like em
06:42 < ayecee> riffing on necromancer
06:43 < ayecee> necromancers like dead things
06:43 < the_document> Kremator: drink da potions
06:43 < the_document> use the portal scrollz
06:43 < the_document> fedora finished downloading
06:43 < Happyhobo> why?
06:43 < Kremator> the_document, with /players 8 sett'd i had to drink my whole belt on HP potions to kill Baal on normal >_<
06:43 < ayecee> Happyhobo: would you like some dead things?
06:44 < Happyhobo> Most definitely.
06:44 < Kremator> ayecee, do you like being holy and shining and stuff?
06:44 < ayecee> i hadn't thought about it til now, but that does sound attractive
06:44 < the_document> Kremator: stash not belt
06:45 < ayecee> dat holy aura
06:45 < the_document> the question is, were can we actually find a forest with monsters which we can slay to grab real gold?
06:45 < Kremator> ayecee, well then , become a paladin, so you become that god's will and punish all that heretic hoes at the pub :)
06:45 < ayecee> would be nice, eh
06:45 < the_document> and portal scrolls
06:46 < Kremator> the_document, portal scrolls are easy : a car; real life demons to kill and earn gold : go to a findland or norway forest
06:46 < ayecee> Kremator: nah, my game playing experience says that god's will aims at bigger evils
06:46 < ||JD||> the_document: I'm afraid you missed D3 RMAH budy
06:46 < Kremator> and kill the black metalhead there
06:46 < bangka> Hi all! :) Sorry for my eng. Anybody knows DNS server that can change static routes without restarting? i mean something like dnsmasq address=/www.somelink.com/1.2.3.4
06:46 < totallyserious> Hey anyone have any thoughts on this? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50479697/how-can-you-program-a-cronjob-to-run-only-once-after-12am-and-12pm
06:46 < ayecee> totallyserious: looks like an url
06:46 < the_document> Kremator: forest = moshpit?
06:46 < Kremator>  ^^
06:46 < ayecee> totallyserious: more seriously, describe your problem here.
06:47 < Kremator> the_document, in scandinavia the forest are either a moshpit, or a sacrifice ritual for summoning Surtur
06:47 < the_document> ||JD||: idk wut RMAH is
06:47 < ayecee> totallyserious: urls should be reference material, not a substitute for conversation
06:47 < the_document> Kremator: BLASPHEMY i want REAL monsters which yeild REAL gold
06:48 < the_document> not some metal head
06:48 < Kremator> ||JD||, whats RMAH? too poor to play D3
06:48 < totallyserious> ayecee: ok. my company is running on Heroku and the Heroku Scheduler has the following interesting properties: It can only run every 10 mins, hour or daily, You cannot time when the scheduler will actually start. If you scheduler is running every 10 mins, all you can expect is that it will run between 4:00am to 4:10am.  It is possible that the scheduler encounters some error and crash. When this ha
06:48 < totallyserious> ppens, the scheduler will restart immediately. As an example, if the scheduler crashed at 4:00 while it was running, it might run again at 4:01.
06:48 < ayecee> okay, seriously
06:48 < ayecee> that's just too long to read
06:48 < ayecee> pretend you're having a conversation and not copypasting.
06:48 < Kremator> totallyserious, try to make a dpaste.com of it
06:48 < ||JD||> Kremator: real money auction house, it doesn't exist anymore, sadly
06:49 < ayecee> the_document: i hear tourists have a pretty good drop rate
06:49 < Kremator> ||JD||, sadly??? so far i read back then, that was literally killing the game (at the same time that making rich some poor chinesse farmers and blizzard aswell)
06:49 < ayecee> the_document: and they're almost always evil, so.. score!
06:49 < Kremator> ayecee, if you hit one of those big tourist boss with nikon cameras, you definitely cash in a big sum
06:49 < Kremator> $$nikons$$
06:49 < ayecee> hot damn
06:50  * ayecee cats nikon
06:50 < ayecee> it is super effective
06:50 < the_document> lol evil tourists?
06:50 < ayecee> almost always
06:50 < the_document> were da bararians at?
06:51 < the_document> whirlwind dat forest
06:51 < ayecee> further out in the country, but the gold drop isn't great.
06:51 < the_document> frenzie
06:51 < the_document> well thats too bad
06:51 < ||JD||> Kremator: the game was always bad, with and without the RMHA, on the other hand I was doing $200/day while it was alive
06:51 < the_document> its a waste of the barbarians time because think about it, he can just remain in the forest which actually has real gold
06:51 < Kremator> ||JD||, LMAAAAAOOO +1 now i know why you said "you missed it"
06:52 < the_document> ^
06:52 < ||JD||> lel
06:52 < ayecee> nah, barbarians only have gold to trade with non-barbarians
06:52 < Kremator> the_document, anyways why do you want gold, these days its all about PIB and FIAT pattern
06:52 < ayecee> it's a sucker's game. you gotta really like killing barbarians.
06:52 < the_document> oww you
06:52 < Kremator> ayecee, yeah, because barbarians in general cannot deal with each other so instead of trade, they would know out in battles for objects
06:53 < Kremator> konck out*
06:53  * the_document was always a barbarian in D2
06:53 < ayecee> barbarians deal with each other very well. they don't use gold though.
06:53 < ayecee> more like bride exchanges.
06:53  * the_document didn't play D2 online
06:53 < Kremator> the_document, same, i always played D2 jack sparrow's edition
06:53 < the_document> ayecee: I read "bride exchanges" as bride sandwiches
06:53 < ayecee> a little of both
06:54 < Kremator> the_document, i read a completely different thing i would be ashamed of saying on the channel
06:54 < Happyhobo> I got a new wireless card cooming that is also blueteeth, can I use it online and connect it to my stereo.
06:54 < ayecee> Happyhobo: maybe.
06:54 < the_document> Kremator: must be all dat pornz you been browzing
06:54 < Kremator> Happyhobo, if your stereo does support BT hell yeah boi
06:54 < Kremator> >_<
06:54 < ayecee> Happyhobo: probably yes, but in linux it's going to be a pain.
06:55 < the_document> Happyhobo: only if your stereo supports blueteeth
06:55 < Kremator> ||JD||, btw, is blizzard still selling D2 keys?
06:55 < Happyhobo> Everything in linux is a pain.
06:55 < ayecee> some things aren't. this is.
06:55 < Kremator> that's a lie
06:55 < the_document> its not a pain when it works
06:55 < Kremator> bash is not a pain
06:55 < the_document> barbarians bash stuff
06:55 < the_document> for gold
06:55 < ayecee> i see what you did there
06:55 < Kremator> the_document, :0 how did you knew
06:56 < the_document> Kremator: they are l33t programers
06:56 < Happyhobo> In my 15 years of use only a few things have been fully resolved,
06:56 < the_document> Kremator: they reprogram an anatomy of a monster/enemy
06:56 < ayecee> Happyhobo: that would correspond with how long i've seen you complaining about inane bull.
06:56 < Happyhobo> lgbt programmers?\
06:56 < Kremator> Happyhobo, tbh, that's a very good record, in my "almost" 23 years of exitence, i cannot say i ever fully resolved anything @ life
06:56 < the_document> Happyhobo: igbt??
06:57 < ayecee> Kremator: it could be your threshold for resolution is too high
06:57 < ayecee> "good enough", aka akuna matata
06:57 < autopsy> Yeah thats what I think.
06:57 < Happyhobo> Most of my complaints were legit ayecee.
06:57 < Kremator> ayecee, i do like your style
06:57 < nekOwOseam> How would I go about setting fish as my default shell? I've read the manpages and can't figure out how
06:57 < ayecee> Happyhobo: you say that, but my flag i have for you says otherwise.
06:57 < ||JD||> Kremator: yes it is still available at least for my location
06:57 < nekOwOseam> I haven't really messed around with shells much
06:57 < the_document> can the barbarian slay the beast from beuty and the beast?
06:58 < the_document> and maybe that lantern and teapot?
06:58 < ||JD||> it's really cheap
06:58 < ayecee> the_document: yes, but that's a german fairy tale
06:58 < autopsy> nekOwOseam, set it in /etc/passwd
06:58 < Happyhobo> I have a flag?
06:58 < ayecee> Happyhobo: of course
06:58 < ||JD||> I don't buy it because the retarded latency
06:58 < autopsy> nekOwOseam, use vim to edit the file.
06:58 < Kremator> what do you consider "reallyc heap"?
06:58 < ||JD||> D3 has brazilian servers, D2 doesn't
06:58 < Kremator> oh you are from BR  :)
06:58 < ||JD||> USD 5 or something
06:59 < ||JD||> I'm from Argentina
06:59 < ayecee> Happyhobo: the flag condenses my experiences with you into a small yet memorable variable.
06:59 < Kremator> argentinians in general does have bad latency to connect to miami?
06:59 < ||JD||> awful, 160ms at best, for me 200+
06:59 < Happyhobo> I got the intel wireless card  with BT for 23 dollars and all I have to do is remove the bottom of the unit and replace the old one.
06:59 < ayecee> Happyhobo: i don't remember what we talked about last week, but i remember how it made me feel
07:00 < Happyhobo> usb wireless with mediatek chipset
07:00 < the_document> OK
07:00 < Happyhobo> That I assumed was direct and it wouldn't start automatically.
07:00 < autopsy> modprobe medtk.ko
07:00 < the_document> I booted fedora how do I update database?
07:01 < ayecee> update database
07:01 < the_document> how do I tell yellow dog to update?
07:01 < Kremator> lol
07:01 < ayecee> i mean, what?
07:01 < autopsy> the_document, updatedb &
07:01 < the_document> like apt-get update
07:01 < autopsy> the_document, dnf update
07:01 < Happyhobo> autopsy I've already gone internal
07:01 < ayecee> rpm update?
07:01 < autopsy> dnf
07:01 < Aph3x-WL> yum update
07:01 < ayecee> yum update?
07:01 < ayecee> idk
07:02 < autopsy> Fedora uses dnf now.
07:02 < the_document> yeaaa
07:02 < autopsy> dnf update'
07:02 < the_document> its yum
07:02 < ayecee> this guy. this guy fedoras.
07:02 < Aph3x-WL> yum update dnf
07:02 < the_document> yum update seemd to work
07:02 < autopsy> Ok Me.
07:02 < ayecee> \o/
07:02 < autopsy> the_document, what Fedora version?
07:03 < the_document> leme see
07:03 < the_document> 28
07:03 < autopsy> the_document, maybe yum still works you should be using dnf update thoiugh
07:04 < autopsy> I got  F27.
07:04 < the_document> weird cause I cannot find cpupower
07:04 < the_document> wow
07:04 < autopsy> Do dnf whatprovides cpupower
07:04 < the_document> autopsy: i only wanted to update rpm database
07:04 < Kremator> guys, dnf is the package manager that is going to replace yum right?
07:04 < autopsy> the_document, ok  kill yum. ctrl-c
07:05 < autopsy> Yes.
07:05 < autopsy> the_document, rpm --rebuilddb
07:05 < Aph3x-WL> dnf already replaced yum like 4 versions ago
07:05 < autopsy> Yesah.
07:05 < autopsy> It did.
07:05 < Kremator> Aph3x-WL, yeah but i dont follow Fedora so i dont et with it's news
07:05 < Kremator> get*
07:06 < autopsy> dnf is Dandified Yum.
07:06 < the_document> oww wow
07:06 < Aph3x-WL> i heard it was did not finish
07:06 < DerpGusta> hello! How do I set $XDG_CONFIG_HOME?
07:06 < the_document> cpupower in fedora makes my cpu go to 3.8-4ghz
07:06 < the_document> like it should be
07:06 < autopsy> the_document, what? Ok good.
07:06 < the_document> =(
07:06 < Kremator> DerpGusta, XDG_CONFIG_HOME='lel'
07:06 < autopsy> the_document, so you know its the distro you're using.
07:06 < Kremator> enjoy your new bash var
07:07 < the_document> autopsy: true
07:07 < DerpGusta> Kremator: Dude
07:07 < the_document> autopsy: but why/how
07:07 < autopsy> the_document, mine says 3.1 GHz
07:07 < autopsy> the_document, kernel system calls to govorn the CPU frequency.
07:07 < autopsy> You're on 4.16 now.
07:08 < the_document> autopsy: its cool cause setting the cpu to powersave drops it to ~900Mhz
07:08 < DerpGusta> Kremator: I'm  trying to do it in arch linux by the way
07:08 < the_document> no workload needed
07:08 < autopsy> the_document, I told you Fedora was a good distro.
07:08 < autopsy> I use Fedora 27 LiveDVD
07:08 < the_document> autopsy: but I cannot stand it for 2 reasons, every package downloads loads of stuff and EVERY possible dependency
07:08 < Kremator> DerpGusta, i was just kidding, i have no idea honestly
07:08 < the_document> autopsy: not to mention all the docs and example code
07:09 < autopsy> the_document, deps are needed for libs.
07:09 < the_document> autopsy: wastes space on ssd, and also binary distros boot straight to X, they use systemd and I prefer to boot to console with no x running
07:09 < autopsy> DerpGusta, export XDG_HOME_DIR=/your/directory
07:09 < the_document> autopsy: but on gentoo I can disable stuff and save space/more performance
07:10 < TheDcoder> Hello guys, linux noob here again, how do I add a directory to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable permanently in bash?
07:10 < the_document> autopsy: I NEVER had a broken/missing library issue on gentoo
07:10 < autopsy> the_document, oh Gentoo is hard for me.
07:10 < the_document> its common on binary distros
07:10 < the_document> i really dislike "error somelib-xxblabla.ldd not found"
07:10 < autopsy> TheDcoder, use ~/.bash_profile to set it.
07:10 < the_document> if i were to use binary dist I would use sabayon
07:10 < DerpGusta> autopsy: thanks. But, what if I wanted to do it for 10 different users?
07:11 < pingfloyd> never had that issue in debian either
07:11 < TheDcoder> hmm... okay, thanks autopsy, will try
07:11 < autopsy> DerpGusta, then do a for loop with sudo -u username export XDG_HOME_DIR=/your/directory
07:11 < pingfloyd> I wouldn't say it is common in binary dists
07:11 < the_document> pingfloyd: from my experiences
07:12 < autopsy> the_document, Fedora only breaks on upgrades to thje next release sometimes.
07:12 < ayecee> mostly
07:12 < DerpGusta> autopsy: Okay. all cleared. Thanks again!! :)
07:12 < the_document> autopsy: gentoo hardly ever breaks but when it does its normally very easy to fix or very hard
07:12 < Kremator> TheDcoder, im not 100% sure but, PKG_CONFIG_PATH=$PKG_CONFIG_PATH$YOUR_OTHER_PATH;
07:13 < ayecee> the_document: lol
07:13 < Kremator> TheDcoder, that on your .bashrrc
07:13 < TheDcoder> okay...
07:13 < Happyhobo> I realize more and more ayecee my harddrive is organized like the junk drawer in my kitchen, little bits of this, little bits of that and a whole lot of what the fuck am I saving this for.
07:13 < TheDcoder> I was hoping bash had some built-in command which will do that for me...
07:13 < pingfloyd> Happyhobo: hoarding data?
07:13 < autopsy> Happyhobo, you got a .Trash?
07:13 < ayecee> Happyhobo: i really enjoy deleting stuff. also, mind the language please.
07:13 < pingfloyd> Happyhobo: what I do is archive all that crap and forget about it
07:13 < Kremator> TheDcoder, it does, but the saves wont be saved permanently, they would erase after boot
07:14 < TheDcoder> oh
07:14 < autopsy> After logout.
07:14 < TheDcoder> okay
07:14 < Happyhobo> I need to do a serious rearrange and trash half of it.  Sorry for the fick
07:14 < autopsy> You need to use export command.
07:14 < ayecee> deleting stuff is very liberating.
07:14 < autopsy> Liberation Station.
07:14 < TheDcoder> in Windows I can just edit the variables using the settings dialog... LOL
07:14 < pingfloyd> Happyhobo: sometimes house cleaning is faster to reinstall the OS and restore from backup what you know you want to keep
07:15 < ayecee> especially if it's stuff you haven't looked at in years.
07:15 < pingfloyd> Happyhobo: like when you have a huge messy system on your hands
07:15 < autopsy> Look at it more.
07:15 < Kremator> ayecee, for how longer have you kept a linux installatino without a reinstall?
07:15 < ayecee> nah
07:15 < the_document> Happyhobo: let google drive hoard it
07:15 < ayecee> Kremator: about the cycle of an ubuntu lts
07:15 < pingfloyd> the_document: that's even worse though, because they charge once you get to a certain amount
07:15 < the_document> speaking of drives, i just got an enclosure and it slooows down after a while of transfering
07:16 < the_document> pingfloyd: nah, just open a second account for free +15gigs
07:16 < Kremator> ayecee, Happyhobo, the_document, never understimate the utility of hoarding data, specially in these times where torrenting good quality stuff is becoming harder
07:16 < ayecee> Kremator: i mean, i keep a lot of the data between reinstalls, but i strive to rebuild the configurations.
07:16 < the_document> Kremator: true i remember torrent sites were more popular
07:16 < the_document> not popular but populated
07:16 < pingfloyd> hoarding is less of an issue these days with how cheap HDDs are
07:16 < the_document> with lots of usable stuff
07:17 < pingfloyd> archive the "junk" to external HD
07:17 < Happyhobo> It's only about 5 gigs worth of stuff, just the equivalent of a junk drawer.\
07:17 < ayecee> Kremator: true, but at some point keeping and justifying the old stuff prevents you from acquiring the new stuff.
07:17 < Happyhobo> It's not like under the sink.
07:17 < autopsy> the_document, run sync on it
07:17 < Kremator> ayecee, can you give me an example of how that happened to you with virtual data/assets?
07:18 < Kremator> i can see it happening with  irl stuff though
07:18 < Kremator> Happyhobo, 5G? lol my meme folder is AT LEAST the double of that
07:18 < ayecee> Kremator: obvious example is cd images for linux installs. they're convenient, but i can get them again, and they'll be updated.
07:18 < Happyhobo> Most of mine is text Kremator
07:19 < Kremator> ayecee, well, if i were you, i would keep em as long as the dev team/org still have the main repository for it
07:19 < Kremator> and i wouldnt keep any iso of arch of manjaro at all
07:19 < ayecee> heh
07:19 < pingfloyd> haha
07:19 < pingfloyd> I wouldn't keep arch or manjaro on my system either
07:20 < ayecee> really any software install media is ephemeral. i can get it again.
07:20 < Happyhobo> Antergos rules!
07:20 < morf> weakling
07:20 < Kremator> Happyhobo, 5G of plain text? wtf dude, are you login you radiowave spectrum around your house?
07:20 < Kremator> ayecee, you never know when you gonna get "off the grid" intentionally, or your internet cables gets stolen
07:20 < Happyhobo> I think it's 5G
07:21 < ayecee> Kremator: in theory, yes. in practice. it's never happened for any length of time here.
07:21 < ayecee> Kremator: it may be different where you are.
07:21 < Happyhobo> It's 11 novels, dozens and dozens of blogs.
07:21 < pingfloyd> he's starting a local library of congress
07:21 < Kremator> ayecee, it is :(
07:21 < Kremator> pingfloyd, he is starting his own "arc of knowledge" from when the bombs falls and all computer unshielded will die of the EMP
07:22 < Kremator> ark*
07:22 < ayecee> i used to archive movies and tv series. now i can watch them on netflix on demand, and archiving old series only prevents me from trying new series.
07:22 < pingfloyd> that's how we're screwing ourselves with books moving to electronic
07:22 < Kremator> and i respect that, except you never have enough lewd stuff for the doomsday
07:22 < Kremator> pingfloyd, why?
07:22 < pingfloyd> if you have books around in the aftermath, you can rebuild without having to start from square one all over again
07:23 < Kremator> because we just store them but we dont read them?
07:23 < autopsy> There is no doomsday man.
07:23 < pingfloyd> when the intrastructure and grid are gone the electronic knowledge is gone.
07:23 < Kremator> autopsy, you dont know, me neither, nobody does
07:23 < Happyhobo> I write so I have something to read\
07:23 < autopsy> Quit with all of that nonsense.
07:23 < ayecee> there is a doomsday. it just hasn't happened so far.
07:23 < Happyhobo> linux is the doomsday LOL
07:23 < autopsy> Nobody does know.
07:23 < autopsy> LOL.
07:23 < pingfloyd> false sense of security
07:23 < Kremator> Happyhobo, arch in a bad update is the doomsday indeed
07:23 < autopsy> Linux kernel modules.
07:24 < pingfloyd> just because we never exchanged with Russian during the height of the cold war doesn't mean it is any less or more likely
07:24 < Kremator> i just dont want to be the first to die in the next big economy bubble burst
07:24 < ayecee> if doomsday happens, my digital media archive is going to be the least of my concerns.
07:24 < Happyhobo> Kremator better yet Antergos using the aur and getting conflicts.  Talk about going round and round and round.
07:24 < pingfloyd> especially with how much they've proliferated
07:25 < ayecee> i'll just unearth other peoples' archives from their basements :)
07:25 < Kremator> Happyhobo, ut i though antergOS suposed to be an "more stable" derivative of Arch
07:25 < pingfloyd> the MAD standoff is going to get worse and possibly more unbalanced in the future.
07:25 < Happyhobo> It is then bam surprise Kremator
07:25 < pingfloyd> when it becomes unbalanced, that is the time to start really worrying
07:25 < Kremator> ayecee, just imagine, an age where an HDD with full seasons of series will be worth its weight in gold x2
07:26 < ayecee> Kremator: nah. it'll be from a different time, like watching episodes of the waldens.
07:26 < ayecee> (waltons?)
07:26 < ayecee> who knows anymore
07:26 < pingfloyd> yeah, only a weirdo would binge watch the Waltons today
07:27 < Happyhobo> Easy now!
07:27 < the_document> compiling kernel agian to see if I will get full clocks from cpu
07:27 < ayecee> how far are you through the series? ;)
07:27 < the_document> apparently I enabled a bunch of stuff that shouldn't have been
07:27 < the_document> ayecee: all your fault
07:27 < Kremator> the_document, B L O A T E D
07:27 < pingfloyd> most old series are pretty horrible really
07:27 < ayecee> the_document: i am pleased
07:27 < Kremator> oh guys,
07:27 < the_document> Kremator: meh
07:27 < pingfloyd> very few stand up anymore
07:27 < the_document> Kremator: you heard of kernel seeds?
07:28 < ayecee> indeed. old media will be a curiosity, not a commodity.
07:28 < Kremator> daily reminder, to put a debian 9 or ubuntu mirror inside a hdd inside a faraday's cage
07:28 < Kremator> the_document, nope, sell it to me
07:28 < ayecee> Kremator: nah. i'll just keep track of where your faraday cage is.
07:28 < Happyhobo> I have a total of 18 novels by the world's least known but will be most renowned author.  Sparks is a nobody in comparison.  King even though he is a
07:29 < Kremator> ayecee, the idea is, we could rebuild open sore communitynot from scratch once we rebuild humankind
07:29 < Happyhobo> in a different genre feels intense worry.  Hemingway in comparison is a two bit hack.
07:29 < the_document> Kremator: looks outdated, its been a while http://kernel-seeds.bloodnoc.org/
07:29 < Kremator> because we could have a central server to setup packages for the few computers still running after the bombs
07:29 < ayecee> Kremator: i think that would happen because of what we have in our minds and not what we have on our hard drives.
07:29 < pingfloyd> this conversation makes me think of the movie Zardoz.
07:30 < Kremator> ayecee, nothing could guarantee us that some important people, maybe "unrepleaceable" ones wont die in the bombs
07:30 < ayecee> i feel that no one is not replaceable.
07:30 < Kremator> ayecee, for example, Torvalds and Gary are in US, precisely in one of the countries that are targets
07:30 < ayecee> with regards to open source.
07:31 < Kremator> ayecee, what if, there is no more the source!?
07:31 < lnnb> rewrite it
07:31 < ayecee> the thrust of open source is that everyone has a copy, and anyone may modify it.
07:31 < Happyhobo> I'll contribute my work to the rebuilding of open source.
07:32 < Kremator> ayecee, but we are talking abnout an hypotethical worldwide EMP scenario
07:32 < the_document> ok rebooting
07:32 < the_document> we will see if it works
07:32 < Kremator> if nobody wanted to save stuff, nnobody would have a copy
07:32 < jim> Kremator, one thing, there are lots of clones of the kernel source
07:32 < Happyhobo> Then I'll pull a lycoris and sneak a payment page that will install halfway through the manuscript.
07:32 < jim> and they're spread out everywhere
07:33 < Kremator> jim, are you just talking about all the linux install around the world, or about places where Linux src is stored precisely on "safe"
07:33 < ayecee> Kremator: for one, i think that would be least concern in the short term, and that we could find suitable basements in the longterm that have such media.
07:34 < jim> Kremator, do you really need to know where they all are?
07:34 < Happyhobo> will someone please help me foster my delusions of grandeur?  I'm losing momentum.
07:34 < Kremator> jim, i would like to loot it all :P
07:35 < ayecee> Happyhobo: the delusions of grandeur must come from within.
07:35 < jim> Happyhobo, go to fosters freeze?
07:35 < Kremator> Happyhobo, ok, people does like you and say nice things about you
07:35 < Kremator> oh wait, i tihnk i got it backwards
07:35 < Happyhobo> how many?
07:35 < Happyhobo> people could be two and that just wouldn't be sufficient.
07:35 < Kremator> Happyhobo, never enough
07:36 < jim> Happyhobo, I'm not so sure whether you're trying to make a joke or not
07:37 < Kremator> jim, you dont get it? he is like me, his life is the joke itself
07:37 < Kremator> our life*
07:38 < pingfloyd> all lives serve a purpose whether they even know they do
07:38 < jim> I mean, I would think, my feelings originate from me, so I don't need anyone to act any particular way
07:38 < Kremator> pingfloyd, tell that to kurt cobain
07:38 < Happyhobo> I just noticed something.  In all of my work computers, linux and even windows barely play a minute role.
07:39 < pingfloyd> everyone's lives and deaths play a little part in the shaping of evolution, and all fertile lives keep the supply of meat up for nature to experiment on.
07:39 < Kremator> Happyhobo, well, once a great ComputScientist said something about "ComputerScience is about computers as much as Astronomy is about telescopies"
07:39 < Happyhobo> I'm a writer jim, all writers long for the input of others whether it be criticism and relatability.
07:40 < pingfloyd> and some lives have even more purpose than that by shaping many other lives.
07:40  * Kremator doesnt care about universe's entrophy, he does have enough with /dev/random
07:42 < jim> Kremator, abelson?
07:42 < Kremator> jim, no i think it was dijsktra
07:42 < ayecee> it was probably freud
07:42 < Kremator> freud? sigmund freud?
07:42 < jim> oh ok, maybe abelson was quoting him in the first sicp video
07:43 < ayecee> i'm just making stuff up
07:43 < ayecee> as is tradition
07:44 < pingfloyd> you could apply that to anything
07:44 < Kremator> jim, just checked, yeah it was dijsktra
07:44 < Kremator> pingfloyd, well, by einstein standards, everything is relative, so yeah
07:44 < pingfloyd> as much as automotive mechanics is about wrenches
07:44 < pingfloyd> as much as art is about paint brushes
07:44 < pingfloyd> as much as writing is about pencils
07:45 < jim> everything is relative so incest is best?!
07:45 < Kremator> wait what
07:45 < ayecee> as much as metaphors are about similes
07:45 < Kremator> pingfloyd, i have to disagree in that last one, pencils are no the main "tools" used by writers, but their minds
07:45 < the_document> yessss
07:45 < the_document> I got it to go to 4ghz
07:45 < the_document> even better than binary dist
07:46 < pingfloyd> Kremator: they're all tools though
07:46 < Kremator> the_document, good, now hurry up in the line to buy some liquid Nytrogen before it meltsdown your house
07:46 < pingfloyd> Kremator: the quote is comparing apples and oranges
07:46 < Kremator> pingfloyd, yeah, but what i got from the phrase is, more about the main tool
07:46 < pingfloyd> studies in theories with tool
07:46 < ayecee> apples and oranges are tasty
07:46 < Kremator> ayecee, mangos are better
07:46  * the_document pours out bucket full of linquid nitrogen on laptop
07:46 < syborg> freud has something to say about the ayecee o.O
07:47 < syborg> *that
07:47 < the_document> Kremator: is it supposed to be sparking like a tesla coil?
07:47 < the_document> at least I saved my house
07:47 < ayecee> i've never seen a mango on a tree. i don't think they exist.
07:47 < Kremator> the_document, indeed! that means that you still have room to overclock, who knows, maybe you can push it up to 5 ghz!
07:47 < the_document> ayecee: mangoes are considered pests in hawaii
07:47 < ayecee> it's a government plot i tell you.
07:47 < the_document> ayecee: they are everywere
07:47 < the_document> Kremator: lol
07:47 < pingfloyd> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4aAgFnZgQ0
07:47 < the_document> Kremator: well said
07:48 < the_document> Kremator: moar cpupowa
07:48 < syborg> I wish I had pest mangoes
07:48 < syborg> that would be awesome, I'd eat mangoes constantly
07:48 < Kremator> ayecee, tomorrow i will take a picture of a big "female mango" that are fucking huge
07:48 < the_document> omg this this wierd
07:48 < ayecee> omg my ears
07:49 < the_document> Kremator: everytime there is a load the cpu drops down below 4ghz
07:49 < Kremator> pussies
07:49 < ayecee> no u
07:49 < Kremator> the_document, maybe you are getting thermal throttle?
07:50 < pingfloyd> that could because the cpu is idle enough waiting on processess
07:50 < pingfloyd> like io is your bottleneck for instance
07:50 < jim> Kremator, please don't do namecalling here
07:50 < Kremator> jim, sorry
07:50 < pingfloyd> abundance of cpu bound by subpar IO system in comparison
07:51 < jim> ayecee, please spell out u as you, it helps people (particularly new english speakers) to understand, at least, most of what's going on
07:51 < the_document> Kremator: I redid the grease and I think I screwed it up, was only my 4th time doing this
07:51 < the_document> Kremator: got it right on the amd laptop tho, temps droped
07:51 < ayecee> jim: come on man
07:51 < the_document> meh I open it up agian when i get 8 more gigs ram
07:51 < pingfloyd> the_document: how hot is your cpu getting?
07:52 < Kremator> jim, more like it helps to avoid triggering psi-jack
07:52 < jim> it's not about him
07:52 < Kremator> "it's not me, its him!"
07:52 < Kremator> so cliche
07:53 < Kremator> the_document, seriously, checkout your CPU doesnt go up to 100°
07:53 < the_document> pingfloyd: currently @ 60c but my amd goes to 70c on high load and full clocks
07:53 < Kremator> seems about right
07:53 < the_document> bios is basically thermal cutoff
07:54 < Kremator> my laptop can go to 110° on full load, but who cares about melting down the table, it's steel anyway
07:54 < Disconsented> the_document> CPU's listed turbo isnt all core
07:54 < Disconsented> thats normal behavour
07:57 < ayecee> melt all the things
08:02 < Happyhobo> okay it wasn't even a gig
08:02 < Happyhobo> goodnight folks
08:02 < ayecee> was more like a show-and-go
08:03 < Happyhobo> There was so many files.
08:03 < Happyhobo> were not was*
08:03 < ayecee> you english well
08:03 < syborg> weren'tn't is the word you were looking for
08:04 < ayecee> there were so many files, is the intent
08:04 < ayecee> but i see what you did there
08:06 < Happyhobo> I want to have all of the novel work alone so I can put it on a usb stick and stash it in my car.  I hate the idea of leaving my work at home where it could be stolen if the laptop gets stolen.
08:07 < ayecee> i'm looking through my tabs, and one of the implications of Amdahl's law is higher resolution of calculations with little change in performance.
08:07 < ayecee> as technology advances
08:08 < syborg> Happyhobo, you could learn how to use LUKS encryption if you don't, and store an encrypted copy on both your desktop and a usb drive. Then it will be hard to steal, and hard to accidentally delete :-)
08:08 < syborg> *laptop
08:08 < ayecee> Happyhobo: sounds like you may be in the market for personal cloud storage.
08:08 < ayecee> such as nextcloud
08:08 < syborg> also cloud storage, but I like controlling my own files
08:08 < ayecee> that's where the personal comes into it
08:09 < syborg> is the technology you are recommending managed by a third party?
08:09 < ayecee> nextcloud provides a dropbox-style storage interface that you maintain yourself.
08:09 < Happyhobo> I still have room on google drive.
08:09 < syborg> or is it some open source DIY solution?
08:09 < autopsy> Google Drive man.
08:10 < ayecee> it is some open source DIY solution provided by a third party using your infrastructure.
08:10 < syborg> also, amdahl's law is new to me, although I am not surprised someone quantified the effect of increasing performance
08:10 < syborg> that sounds cool then ayecee
08:10 < ayecee> very cool. i'm kind of excited about it recently.
08:12 < syborg> looks very well done by glancing at their website too, and built as a platform for further development?
08:12 < ayecee> yup. lots of plugins available too.
08:12 < ayecee> forked from owncloud.
08:12 < syborg> and they're on freenode, that's how you know they're legit =P
08:12 < ayecee> heh
08:13 < ayecee> that helps, yeah
08:13 < autopsy> Wow they are on Freenode coolies.
08:14 < autopsy> La la la.
08:14 < autopsy> the_document, did you get it sorted out with the throottling?
08:15 < autopsy> the_document, you should set it to performance.
08:15 < autopsy> Never throttle down.
08:15 < autopsy> NomadJim, hi.
08:18 < ayecee> bac threshold detected
08:20 < the_document> !note autopsy I did set it to performance yet it drops to 1.80GHz - it on occasion spikes above that but whatever it works
08:21 < ayecee> fail
08:25 < autopsy> Hi u0_a195
08:26 < ayecee> looks like a bot nick, eh
08:27 < autopsy> Yeah.
08:29 < sphalerite> Any kernel wizards here who might know how I can embed an initrd in an existing kernel image? I've found https://www.coreboot.org/Initramfs which looks promising but based on how it removes an existing .init.ramfs section I suspect it requires a kernel that already has one baked in
08:30 < ayecee> there's room for a nick turing test, where a panel of judges determine from the nick chosen whether it's a bot or not.
08:32 < ayecee> optionally taking into account their first few utterances and their timing
08:33 < ayecee> statistical analysis will determine how much that increases selectivity
08:35 < pantato> https://paste.debian.net/1026054/ anyone know what's going on here? my regular update is failing
08:37 < [R]> pantato: what is on 368 in mkinitrams
08:37 < [R]> mkinitramfs*
08:38 < ayecee> pantato: something weird is going on. it's trying to create /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs, but the error is that /usr/sbin doesn't exist
08:39 < pingfloyd> seems like a lot of the story is missing
08:39  * ayecee reads the runes
08:39 < pantato> sec
08:40 < pingfloyd> what prompted you to run dpkg --configure -a?
08:40 < ayecee> an error, probably
08:41 < pingfloyd> normally you shouldn't need to run that
08:41 < ayecee> man, half of my job is sussing out error messages from users who don't think they're important.
08:42 < ayecee> "i got an error, can you fix it?"
08:42 < pingfloyd> that's like 90% of tech support it seems
08:42 < pingfloyd> figuring out what important info the user is leaving out
08:42 < ayecee> yeah. i'd be lying if i said that it wasn't fun to find out.
08:43 < pingfloyd> that's where people skills shine
08:43 < pantato> yeah, i got the same error during my normal update
08:43 < pantato> tried running that
08:44 < ayecee> what is your normal update command, and what was the full error message
08:44 < pingfloyd> pantato: did you forget to run apt-get update?
08:44 < pantato> [R]: 368 as in line 368 ?
08:44 < pantato> pingfloyd: no
08:44 < pingfloyd> when did this issue first come up?
08:45 < ayecee> the resolution machine is engaged. try not to get trapped in the gears.
08:46 < pantato> pingfloyd: tonight when ubuntu desktop prompted me to update, i complied, then it said stuff went wrong
08:46 < ayecee> stuff
08:46 < ayecee> went
08:46 < ayecee> wrong
08:46 < ayecee> do it again. get a more cogent response.
08:47 < pingfloyd> which update mechanism and more details on what went wrong (like output it gave back etc.).
08:48 < pantato> bleh, having trouble grabbing the output of this tmux window
08:48 < ayecee> we can wait :)
08:49 < pingfloyd> is it update-manager
08:49 < ayecee> sometimes we can't wait
08:53 < pantato> https://paste.debian.net/1026056/ , pingfloyd , ayecee , [R]
08:55 < autopsy> cx
08:55 < pingfloyd> many of your sources have problems
08:55 < ayecee> pantato: does /usr/sbin exist?
08:55 < pantato> line 368 of mkinitramfs is  cat "${__TMPEARLYCPIO}" >"${outfile}" || exit 1
08:55 < pingfloyd> look at all of the 404s
08:55 < pantato> ayecee: yes
08:55 < michaelrose> why do I see stuff about multiple ubuntu releases and debian as well?
08:56 < pingfloyd> are you mixing dists and releases in your sources.list?
08:56 < pingfloyd> your source.list is the source of your problems.  You need to fix that.
08:56 < ayecee> pantato: something weird is going on. could you elaborate?
08:57 < pantato> pingfloyd: k i'm cleaning it up now
08:57 < pantato> ayecee: I'm not sure how to elaborate
08:57 < pantato> I'm just a newb
08:57 < ayecee> the errors say that /usr/sbin doesn't exist, or the permissions on the parent directories don't allow it to be found.
08:57 < michaelrose> here is an interesting one http://apt.tt-solutions.com/ubuntu/dists/hardy/main/binary-amd64/Packages
08:57 < michaelrose> wpi:dm
08:57 < michaelrose> wouldn't that be ubuntu 8?
08:58 < michaelrose> also see xenial and trusty
08:58 < pantato> i'm running trusty
08:58 < pantato> getting rid of non trusty stuff now
08:58 < pantato> and that tt-solutions
08:58 < pingfloyd> also, no need to mix apt-get and aptitude
08:58 < michaelrose> if that doesn't work consider starting over without sources from different decades
08:59 < pingfloyd> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
08:59 < michaelrose> seriously hardy was released in 2009
09:00 < pantato> pingfloyd: that doesn't update the kernel tho
09:00 < pingfloyd> fix your source.list first
09:00 < pantato> pingfloyd: yeah i did, and i got no errors during apt-get update this time. Still the same problem when i run safe-upgrade,  though
09:02 < pingfloyd> have you ran apt-get autoremove --purge?
09:03 < pingfloyd> also, did you get rid of all the lines for the other releases that you're not using?  (you can just comment them)
09:03 < pantato> drwxr-xr-x   2 root root 12288 May 22 21:47 sbin
09:05 < pantato> hm ok looks like i missed one last one
09:07 < pantato> this is stupid
09:07 < pantato> /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs: 368: /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs: cannot create : Directory nonexistent
09:07 < pantato> why would it say this?
09:07 < pantato> I can't even remove the image now
09:07 < Sveta> for what input?
09:08 < pantato> Sveta: safe-upgrade and autoremove
09:09 < Sveta> when did it say that error?
09:10 < autopsy> pantato your mkinitramfs is failing try creating /boot/ or mount -t proc none /proc and try again.
09:11 < pantato> https://imgur.com/a/X7VuP4W appears to be referencing these lines
09:14 < pantato> k well i am trying the windows solution now :)
09:14 < michaelrose> reinstallation?
09:15 < pantato> lol no, rebooted
09:15 < pantato> mostly because i wanted to make sure i could still boot
09:15 < pantato> and I can! yay!
09:19 < pantato> yeah i don't know what I did, but it's not interfering with my regular use. I'll investigate more on my own and let yall know if I figure it out. Thanks ayecee
09:19 < pantato> (and others)
09:30 < CrazyTux> is this distro recommendable for old laptops? http://www.lxle.net/
09:33 < iflema> old?
09:34 < sauvin> CrazyTux, seems like you've been dropping in here for months asking what distro is good.
09:35 < iflema> CrazyTux: define old
09:37 < iflema> you can up and about doing basic stuff for under 512mb on somethin like twm or one of the box's
09:37 < iflema> on any alot of distros
09:38 < iflema> whats old, is it going mobile and battery a thing?
09:40 < autopsy> CrazyTux, you polling again?
09:40 < autopsy> iflema, 236 MB foor Fedora minimal.
09:40 < iflema> x and doing shit
09:42 < galaticus20> hello there
09:42  * iflema f&$# Fedora
09:42 < iflema> o/
09:42 < jelly> autopsy: it's more interrupting than polling
09:42 < galaticus20> hey, you know? i have "places.sqlite" from firefox of 182GB
09:43 < jelly> galaticus20: does "du" command say it really eats that much on disk
09:43 < jelly> could be a sparse file
09:43 < galaticus20> even though i don't save browsing history
09:43 < galaticus20> let me check jelly
09:44 < galaticus20> "178231632	places.sqlite" jelly
09:45 < iflema> CrazyTux: plasma desktop on opensuse leap
09:46 < Dagmar> You can always just look *in* it to see
09:46 < CrazyTux> laptop runs on Intel Celeron M 1.5 Ghz single core cpu with 2 GBs of RAM.
09:46 < CrazyTux> has 40 GB HDD.
09:47 < iflema> no SSD?
09:47 < CrazyTux> I don't want to throw it away.
09:47 < galaticus20> well, i delete it, but, kinda weird :) i guess it was generated suddendly as i could not open firefox until moving the file from FF folder
09:47 < CrazyTux> iflema, no SSD.
09:47 < Dagmar> He has a point.  *Install* an SSD
09:47 < Dagmar> Small ones are actually reasonably cheap now
09:47 < Dagmar> It will greatly improve it's performance as a desktop
09:47 < CrazyTux> small SSDs?
09:48 < CrazyTux> I will consider that.
09:48 < jelly> galaticus20: that'd be "actually allocated 170GB" then
09:48 < michaelrose> I spent like a little over a hundred bucks on a 500gb ssd recently no reason to be that small
09:48 < CrazyTux> but, the cpu also is very old
09:48 < jelly> CrazyTux: 120GB consumer sata ssd is around $35-40
09:49 < CrazyTux> is it worth spending that much on SSD?
09:49 < CrazyTux> or is there any suitable linux distro that can make that ancient laptop work?
09:49 < jelly> you can use it in the next machine
09:49 < CrazyTux> and moreover it is a 32 bit machine.
09:49 < iflema> um
09:49 < michaelrose> at 120gb you have to be careful about what you put on it, at 500gb you can put everything except large movie collections on it
09:50 < pingfloyd> you should easily be able to fit the system on a small ssd
09:50 < Dagmar> You can get a 60Gb SSD for like $25.
09:50 < CrazyTux> ok
09:50 < pingfloyd> even if you go on an install spree, 30GB is still a lot for outside of /home.
09:50 < iflema> slackware 9Gig install and have a crack at alocal modconfig for a faster boot. Plug in ya USB...
09:50 < Dagmar> Yeah
09:50 < jelly> CrazyTux: be careful, that sounds about 2005 vintage, it might have SATA1 controller and not work with current cheap SSDs
09:50 < bangka> hi!
09:51 < CrazyTux> jelly, ok
09:51 < pingfloyd> you can easily throw everything but /home on it and be zipping along
09:51 < bangka> Anybody knows DNS server that can change static routes without restarting? i mean something like dnsmasq address=/www.somelink.com/1.2.3.4
09:51 < jelly> my old Thinkpad Z60m did not want to boot off a sata2 ssd
09:51 < Dagmar> I was actually looking on NewEgg just a few minutes ago.  Small SSDs are cheap, and that would include plenty of SATA 3 models
09:51 < pingfloyd> I still think /home is a good candidate for HDD
09:51 < CrazyTux> jelly, yes. It was bought in 2002 or 2003.
09:51 < pingfloyd> unless you've got money coming out of your ass or something
09:51 < jelly> CrazyTux: ouch, does it even have a sata disk or a pata one
09:52 < Dagmar> bangka: A DNS server doesn't change static routes
09:52 < CrazyTux> jelly, SATA.
09:52 < Dagmar> bangka: If you're trying to *replace* DNS entries with your own addresses, just set up BIND and add whatever zones you like
09:53 < bangka> Dagmar> BIND is hard...
09:53 < bangka> Dagmar> i need dynamic change
09:54 < autopsy> bangka, bind is not hard its bind.
09:55 < jelly> what is "static routes" in context of dns?
09:56 < bangka> oh! :D eng is not my native sry....
09:56 < bangka> i try to explain
09:57 < autopsy> bangka, use dhclient
09:58 < bangka> when i "dig some.link" its returns to me 5 IPs. but 3 of them is banned. I need modify answer and reply with only not banned IPs.
09:58 < RevanOne> a
09:59 < iflema> he knows what you just saw...
10:00 < bangka> i make this with Python + dnsmasq. But when i parse log and make new config file with "address=/site.link/goodIP" i should to restart dnsmasq
10:00 < bangka> and here i have some problems with TimeOut
10:00 < bangka> when dnsmasq is restarting
10:02 < autopsy> bangka yeah what you said.
10:04 < CrazyTux> which one is better, more up ta date between these two? Puppy Linux or Knoppix?
10:04 < drzacek> Hello there
10:04 < iflema> CrazyTux: both a bad idea really
10:04 < iflema> CrazyTux: use case...
10:04 < iflema> ?
10:05 < CrazyTux> iflema, why? I want to them on a live usb, for old laptops.
10:05 < iflema> use case required...
10:05 < the_document> is team a modern network standard used by most laptops?
10:06 < CrazyTux> is there any distro that can be installed on a usb pendrive and updated/upgraded on it?
10:06 < drzacek> I just compiled a program I'm working on, just like I do everyday hundrets of times - aaaaand it doesn't run now. I get "cannot execute binary file: Exec format error".
10:06 < CrazyTux> iflema, for old laptops for home and office use.
10:06 < iflema> CrazyTux: arh right
10:07 < michaelrose> ANY distro that fits on the usb drive could be installed there
10:07 < Triffid_Hunter> CrazyTux: all of them?
10:07 < michaelrose> just with not so awesome performance if the drive is slow
10:07 < Triffid_Hunter> drzacek: accidentally used your arm compiler for something?
10:08 < CrazyTux> a distro with persistent memory feature.
10:08 < michaelrose> any standard install is persistent
10:08 < drzacek> Triffid_Hunter, I don't think so, I'm using codeblocks with g++ configured. I'm on x86_64 debian, but compile with -m32 flag. It DID worked before, been using this 32bit build for weeks now
10:09 < iflema> puppy... careful with/when root. !next
10:09 < CrazyTux> I think Knoppix is one of those distros that has these features.
10:10 < michaelrose> a live usb environment is a special case designed to provide a performant environment when booted from slow usb, persistence thusly has to be bolted on
10:10 < drzacek> http://paste.debian.net/1026065/ if this is any help. Seems alright to me
10:12 < Triffid_Hunter> drzacek: did a kernel update recently? maybe the new one doesn't have 32 bit support.. see what zgrep COMPAT_32 /proc/config.gz says
10:12 < Triffid_Hunter> drzacek: that would be strange though, things like steam use 32 bit..
10:13 < drzacek> Triffid_Hunter, great, looks like it doesn't have that
10:14  * iflema ding ding
10:17 < iflema> Triffid_Hunter: your not drzacek are you?
10:17 < iflema> just checkin...
10:17 < SteeevO> I'm running phplist on centos7 and followed the cron directions here: https://www.phplist.org/manual/ch036_setting-up-your-cron.xhtml but the script won't run via cron
10:18 < SteeevO> I can run the script manually and it's fine. just via cron it has no effect. it shows that it runs in the cron log too.. I can't figure this out for the life of me. Any ideas?
10:18 < Triffid_Hunter> iflema: uhh yeah, I totally come here to have conversations with myself
10:18 < drzacek> iflema, ?
10:18 < iflema> =)
10:19 < collins> triffid_hunter: you're rekt + pwned. How does that feel?
10:19 < Triffid_Hunter> SteeevO: cron usually runs things with a cleaned environment. you may want to specify PATH= in your cron script, or include /etc/profile.d/* or whatever
10:20 < Triffid_Hunter> collins: how so?
10:21 < SteeevO> Triffid_Hunter: Can you elaborate on what you mean by a cleaned environment? and why PATH= or including the /etc/profile.d would make any difference?
10:21 < collins> Triffid_Hunter: your plan to the turtles nest has been exposed.
10:22 < SteeevO> Triffid_Hunter.. I think I actually understand what you're getting at
10:23 < Triffid_Hunter> SteeevO: your normal terminal has PATH and a bunch of other env vars filled with stuff alongside aliases and functions.. if your script relies on any of that, it ain't gonna work as-is from cron which basically doesn't provide anything
10:23 < Triffid_Hunter> SteeevO: set | less will show you how much crud you're used to being available :P
10:24 < SteeevO> Triffid_Hunter: I see the PATH settings in /etc/crontab which didn't include the path of my script. I think it's going to be ok now.
10:25  * iflema ding ding
10:25 < the_document> ping
10:26 < jack_rip_vim> +_+
10:27 < RevanOne> Hey, anyone can help me with a xmlstarlet search ?  How can I get just the version ? 1.1.4 for example .  https://gist.github.com/dragosrosculete/92cb5c0fcfb47ab923af57d985afcb60
10:29 < jack_rip_vim> xmlstartlet -v?
10:29 < jack_rip_vim> RevanOne:
10:41 < SteeevO> triffid: Thank you very mush. all is good now.
10:45 < Triffid_Hunter> SteeevO: yoiu're welcome :)
11:17 < repys> I get ntpd stop working suddenly. how can I determine the reason of that?
11:17 < repys> which log should give me some info?
11:17 < Triffid_Hunter> repys: ntpd.log?
11:18 < repys> I tried in messages but nothing
11:18 < Triffid_Hunter> repys: mine logs to /var/log/ntp.log
11:18 < repys> I don't have that log
11:18 < repys> I can't find any ntp.log
11:19 < Triffid_Hunter> repys: well check your logger config to see where it's logging to
11:19 < repys> where is the logger config for ntpd?
11:21 < Triffid_Hunter> repys: hmm mine seems to have moved to daemon.log around november last year for some reason, perhaps something updated my /etc/rsyslog.d/
11:22 < repys> rhel or centos 7?
11:22 < Triffid_Hunter> repys: gentoo
11:27 < ayjay_t> i'm trying to print a character array with these contents out via ncurses: https://paste.ofcode.org/FnftLxP4Cn5CpYJw9qBkcG but it wont print it
11:27 < ayjay_t> regular text works fine
11:28 < ayjay_t> those are color codes that will work, for example, with the -e flag on `echo`
11:29 < Triffid_Hunter> ayjay_t: if you're using ncurses, doesn't it have its own colour stuff?
11:30 < ayjay_t> Triffid_Hunter: that's true, but in this situation, that buffer is generated by a 3rd party program... namely... "ls"
11:31 < nicholasBPM> My ssh connection keeps dropping, I use that connection to tunnel information so I need it to become more stable. Any tricks available?
11:31 < ayjay_t> are those wide characters?
11:31 < k_sze[work]> Could somebody explain to me what is grub-mount and what it actually does? The man page is quite sparse.
11:35 < djph> nicholasBPM: get a more stable internet connection?
11:36 < Triffid_Hunter> ayjay_t: last time I checked, ls only generates colours if you tell it to
11:36 < dennisd> hi, would there be a clean way to make a file 'proxy' that, when read, gives user-specific content? For instance, if user A reads the file, it receives different content than user B.
11:36 < Triffid_Hunter> nicholasBPM: mosh?
11:37 < ayjay_t> Triffid_Hunter: this is true, this is only an example case, and I can't parse every command's output and recolorize it with ncurses's color API
11:37 < Triffid_Hunter> dennisd: fuse?
11:38 < dennisd> Triffid_Hunter: thank you, I'll do some reading
11:41 < nicholasBPM> djph, I use the connection for socks 5 proxy and it works as soon as i reconnect
11:42 < nicholasBPM> Triffid_Hunter, would be cool, but do not work with socks 5
11:44 < afidegnum> hello, how do I check the list of available RAID disks?
11:46 < djph> nicholasBPM: that statement does not negate "get a more stable network".  I supose you could tweak the keepalives to deal with that
11:51 < nicholasBPM> djph, thanks i have tried that too. The server i use for socks 5 is a vps might be that
11:57 < afidegnum> any answer ?
12:02 < ayjay_t> start with lsblk, dig through /sys
12:17 < MrGrz> hi
12:46 < cr1t1cal> is Apache OpenOffice discontinued?
12:46 < cr1t1cal> coz I hate LibreOffice and I really wanted to use it lol
12:48 < dgurney> OpenOffice is basically dead, yes
12:48 < dgurney> but why do you hate libreoffice cr1t1cal?
12:48 < phre4k> cr1t1cal: I assume you're trolling, but still: why do you hate LibreOffice? It's basically the better/continued version of Apache/Oracle/OpenOffice
12:49 < cr1t1cal> I'm not
12:49 < cr1t1cal> it says on wikipedia that OpenOffice.org is discontinued and Apache OpenOffice it says nothing at all
12:49 < Armand> Libre Office is great. :)
12:50  * luke-jr can't imagine why one would hate LibreOffice and not hate OpenOffice
12:50 < dTal> yeah it doesn't make any sense to like OpenOffice and hate LibreOffice, LibreOffice is the same but newer
12:50 < dgurney> there's no space between Libre and Office! god this is one of my pet peeves
12:50 < Armand> It makes ZERO sense to "hate" either.
12:50 < sud0x3> cr1t1cal: When did you last use it, been dead for years
12:51 < cr1t1cal> i like the name OpenOffice better
12:51 < cr1t1cal> :D
12:51 < dTal> Armand: it makes sense to hate software that one is compelled to use despite fatal shortcomings, like Windows
12:51 < cr1t1cal> I wanna be able to tell people I use "OpenOffice" and not "LibreOffice"
12:51 < dTal> that might apply to a user of LibreOffice,
12:52 < dTal> you want a weird and nonsensical thing
12:52 < Armand> dTal: I can't say I'd ever noticed.... well, any of that
12:52 < sud0x3> Tell them what you want the majority wont have heard of either anyway
12:52 < cr1t1cal> It just feels gay everytime "LibreOffice" rolls out of my tongue
12:53 < Armand> Try taking the dick out your mouth first.
12:53 < cr1t1cal> but I'll use it anyways
12:53  * Armand ducks
12:53 < cr1t1cal> haha
12:53 < luke-jr> what's what with Calligra, btw?
12:53 < Armand> Sorry... had to. :P
12:53 < dTal> Open Office has better marketing with the alliterative name, and it's a shame because many people *still* don't know about LibreOffice, but that's no excuse for those in the know
12:54 < Sveta> they both suck because they have no ui for kde
12:54 < luke-jr> Wikipedia says Apache OpenOffice had a Stable release 4.1.5 (December 30, 2017; 4 months ago)
12:54 < luke-jr> that seems active
12:55 < Sveta> yes, it is
12:55 < dTal> Sveta: what you mean a "ui for KDE"
12:55 < sud0x3> Sveta: You mean they dont use kde's own toolkit
12:55 < dTal> I use KDE and libreoffice, works great
12:55 < deo> cr1t1cal: OpenOffice.org is discontinued as project (which is correct), apache open office is not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice
12:55 < dTal> gtk3 plays nicely with screen scaling and everything
12:55 < sud0x3> Is kde the default desktop on any distro today
12:55 < Sveta> dTal: user interface which looks and feels consistently with other apps written for kde
12:55 < dgurney> stop putting spaces where they don't belong people
12:55 < dTal> well go use KWrite if it bothers you
12:56 < Sveta> dTal: kde is only an example. they have no ui for gnome, mate, cinamon, gnustep, etoile, E17, lxqt, or maemo either
12:56 < dTal> but it's a stupid reason to dislike software
12:56 < dTal> they have a ui
12:56  * Armand shoves a spacebar into dgurney's ear!
12:56 < Sveta> dTal: they aren't writing it as a desktop app, that's a big problem for me
12:56 < dTal> why would you have a seperate UI for ever deskop environment
12:56 < sud0x3> Sveta: what toolkit do they use, looks fine on gnome desktops ive used it on in the past i dont really use office suites anymore though
12:56 < Sveta> dTal: quassel irc client has a separate ui for each desktop environment
12:56 < dTal> does *any* software do that
12:57 < dTal> okay well quassel is anomalous
12:57 < luke-jr> dTal: anything written in Qt automatically adapts to its environment
12:57 < sud0x3> quassel is also minute codebase in comparison
12:57 < Sveta> sud0x3: perhaps it looks fine if you write a skin for it, but it doesn't feel fine in the sense that selection and keyboard shortcuts and the layout of the menus and buttons is entirely different
12:57 < Sveta> luke-jr: the ability of qt to adapt the look and feel to a target environment is rather questionable
12:57 < justJanne> Sveta: quassel only has one UI for desktop, though, right?
12:58 < justJanne> Just the Qt UI adapting itself
12:58 < dTal> Sveta hates GTK3 and QT
12:58 < sud0x3> Sveta: Not even close to an issue for me in comparison to electron apps and other web stuff being wrapped in webviews
12:58 < justJanne> Plus, well, the web UI, android, iOS, maemo, etc
12:58 < Sveta> justJanne: it has ui for kde desktop, it has another ui via irssi plugin, it has a bunch of mobile frontends
12:58 < justJanne> Yeah
12:58 < dTal> Sveta should stick to a terminal lol
12:58 < justJanne> Irssi, right, too
12:58 < Sveta> dTal: i don't hate them, they have their utiilty -- but saying that their look and feel matches that of any desktop is an overstatement
12:58 < justJanne> Plus the QML one sandsmark wrote once
12:59 < dTal> nobody said that
12:59 < justJanne> Qt works great with Qt desktops
12:59 < justJanne> For windows you'd want your own, so for mac
12:59 < dTal> you simply said that LibreOffice "sucks"
12:59 < justJanne> Gtk4 is something that belongs in the trash anyway
12:59 < Sveta> dTal: if you didn't say it, there were a few people in this channel who just said exactly that
12:59 < justJanne> LibreOffice also has multiple frontends per environment
12:59 < justJanne> But they all suck
12:59 < Sveta> dTal: also i was only answering why you need to write ui for every desktop environment :-)
12:59 < justJanne> The libreoffice kde frontend is so broken
13:00 < Sveta> justJanne: i prefer a ui which is oversimplified but looks and feels right
13:00 < Sveta> justJanne: it being broken is of course a significant problem
13:00 < justJanne> Oversimplified? Sounds like you need more GTK4
13:00 < dTal> This is all rather first world isn't it? look at the Windows users, Microsoft Office doesn't remotely match Microsoft Windows and they're both made by the same company!
13:00 < justJanne> The creators of Gtk think Gtk3 had too many options, this is gonna be fixed by Gtk4
13:01 < justJanne> dTal: yes it does
13:01 < justJanne> Office 365 matches the UI of the explorer, wordpad, paint
13:01 < justJanne> The desktop version does not use UWP currently, but that's a WIP
13:01 < sud0x3> I just fired up writer on my setup and its using the gtk theme, so integrates fine with my desktop, colors, menus etc.
13:02 < justJanne> The android and iOS versions use the UWP version already
13:02 < phre4k> cr1t1cal: so you dislike LibreOffice because THE NAME sounds wrong to you? What the fuck
13:02 < luke-jr> I wish the toolkit was moved to the compositor layer
13:02 < phre4k> s/fuck/heck/
13:02 < cr1t1cal> Not wrong. Bad
13:02 < justJanne> StarOffice
13:02 < justJanne> SunOffice
13:02 < justJanne> Sun OpenOffice
13:02 < phre4k> If that'd be my mindset I'd stop using zxcvbn and other weirdly named softwares/libraries, too
13:02 < cr1t1cal> Very bad names.
13:02 < justJanne> Apache OpenOffice
13:02 < justJanne> LibreOffice
13:03 < justJanne> All the same
13:03 < cr1t1cal> phre4k: but those names are fine. they sound technical
13:03 < justJanne> Call it however you want
13:03 < luke-jr> phre4k: I mean, the name does bring to mind connotations with libertarianism and such
13:03 < dgurney> take note everyone, no spaces either!
13:03 < cr1t1cal> phre4k: but LibreOffice just sounds gay
13:03 < justJanne> Yes, and that's great
13:03 < phre4k> luke-jr: oh no, those damn commies taking our documents
13:03 < dgurney> ur mom gay
13:03 < tefter> libreSSL now exists
13:03 < phre4k> if that's your problem, you should use Microsoft™ Office™
13:03 < luke-jr> tefter: and nobody uses it? :P
13:04 < cr1t1cal> OpenOffice itself is a name that identifies my support for the FOSS community
13:04 < cr1t1cal> Noone knowns the Spanish translation of Libre
13:04 < tefter> open BSD and TrueOS use it
13:04 < justJanne> The FLOSS Community
13:04 < cr1t1cal> Doesn't even sound good
13:04 < phre4k> cr1t1cal: top kek.
13:04 < luke-jr> tefter: in other words, nobody
13:04 < justJanne> because it turns out, people misinterpreted the free
13:04 < jkroon> is there any experience here with respect to debugging ext4 filesystems?
13:04 < Sveta> justJanne: i remember qweechat ...
13:04 < justJanne> So for many years now the FSF has called it
13:04 < justJanne> Free Libre Open Source Software
13:04 < jkroon> i've got a problem with fsck.ext4 not actually fixing a filesystem ...
13:05 < tefter> Wyland does not works to me anymore with nvidia proprietary ;(
13:05 < luke-jr> justJanne: really? FSF uses the term "open source" anywhere?
13:05 < luke-jr> last I heard they were anti-"open source"
13:05 < dgurney> tefter, that's what you get for using nvidia
13:05 < justJanne> tefter: then stop using nvidia proprietary
13:05 < justJanne> tefter: nvidia refuses to support any of the standards required for wayland
13:05 < dgurney> nouveau should work with wayland
13:05 < tefter> well I use grpahics only for games ;p
13:05 < phre4k> cr1t1cal: There's a difference between the connotations of Free and Libre, which are both terms you'd use for software. https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/Free-vs-Open-Source-Software
13:05 < tefter> with nouveau 80% games output garbage
13:05 < dgurney> so do I, and this rx580 is pretty nice for that ;p
13:05 < phre4k> Libre is actually more Free than Open ;)
13:05 < dgurney> ^
13:06 < luke-jr> I tried to use the open source radeon driver, but it crashes almost every boot :P
13:06 < dgurney> amdgpu is rock solid here
13:06 < autopsy> radeon_drv.so
13:07 < autopsy> Soo is my Intel GPU. Rock solid.
13:07 < luke-jr> dgurney: you have a different motherboard
13:07 < luke-jr> for whatever reason, mine is trying to use the upper 64-bit address space for DMA, and AMD cards only support 40-bit DMA
13:07 < phre4k> autopsy: Spectre and Spectre-NG would like to have a word with you
13:07 < dgurney> well, don't buy garbage boards in the future then
13:08 < luke-jr> phre4k: with everyone here using AMD too
13:08 < autopsy> phre4k no way dude. Not now.
13:08 < luke-jr> dgurney: it's a high quality board; probably the best one can get right now
13:08 < dgurney> well clearly not if it behaves like that
13:08 < autopsy> Not if it crashes.
13:08 < autopsy> LOL
13:08 < luke-jr> it's the AMD stuff crashing
13:09 < autopsy> AMD schmayemd.
13:09 < luke-jr> the board is just new, should get a workaround for AMD stuff on a firmware update eventually
13:09 < dgurney> okay then
13:09 < autopsy> I had an Asus K8N quad core board with nVidia 9600 drivers.
13:10 < luke-jr> for now, it seems stable using fbdev
13:10 < autopsy> Worked like a beast.
13:10 < luke-jr> and putting 30 cores toward llvmpipe is good enough for 3D rendering
13:10 < luke-jr> (or maybe it was 40 cores, I forget)
13:11 < phre4k> how do I connect to tmux on another client and open a different window?
13:11 < tefter> tmux a -t number
13:12 < phre4k> ah wait, I have tmux as my login shell. I should probably not.
13:13 < compdoc> 40 cores?
13:13 < luke-jr> compdoc: 3D rendering can be CPU intensive, so yes
13:14 < luke-jr> I did have to hack Mesa to get it to use that many though
13:14 < compdoc> where do you find 40 cores? gpu cores?
13:14 < luke-jr> compdoc: dual CPU
13:14 < compdoc> kvm?
13:15 < luke-jr> not sure what KVM has to do with it
13:15 < luke-jr> although KVM is itself unstable with the latest Linux kernel :/
13:15 < cr1t1cal> phre4k: yeah no difference in meaning but Libre still sounds more gay
13:15 < cr1t1cal> phre4k: hey lets play some LibreTTD
13:16 < cr1t1cal> ^ gay
13:16 < paulcarroty> KVM is great these days, works much faster than VirtualBox
13:16 < compdoc> no issues with kvm here
13:16 < tefter> I used KVM but sparse file is extremelly slow
13:16 < luke-jr> compdoc: my CPU is new too
13:16 < tefter> I mean dynamic file
13:17 < compdoc> right
13:17 < kurahaupo> compdoc: hah! 40 cores is *small* in modern cloud hardware
13:17 < autopsy> What is the cloud anyway?
13:17 < tefter> cloud and rain
13:17 < kurahaupo> Servers
13:17 < compdoc> Im just trying to discover where the 40 cores come from and how
13:17 < luke-jr> compdoc: I'm running dual 8xSMT4-core POWER9 on a Raptor Talos II
13:18 < kurahaupo> ⅝ of a single 64-core die
13:18 < autopsy> Holy geepers wally.
13:18 < autopsy> Thats a lot of processor.
13:19 < tefter> Xeon Phi ~60 cores on single board
13:19 < luke-jr> tefter: those are Spectre-vulnerable though
13:19 < luke-jr> I think
13:20 < tefter> yeah Intel is vulnerable until next gen
13:20 < tefter> I have disabled all mitigations , don't care ;)
13:20 < luke-jr> :O
13:21 < pingfloyd> you rebel!
13:21 < luke-jr> supposedly there's a flag for POWER9 to get better performance at the cost of becoming Spectre-vulnerable, but these things are so fast, who cares
13:22 < tefter> anyway my user is sudoer without pass ;)
13:22 < luke-jr> tefter: you realise Spectre can be exploited from Javascript on webpages, right?
13:22 < kurahaupo> Thing 10k cores in one 42U rack
13:22 < tefter> it can
13:22 < qrvpzvb> I'm trying in VirtualBox to mount a VDI as a USB on a guest but I only get "invalid controller: USB"
13:22 < tefter> but browser is patched
13:23 < luke-jr> not if you disable mitigations..
13:23 < pingfloyd> qrvpzvb: why not in qemu-kvm?
13:23 < tefter> mitigations are just for kernel
13:23 < qrvpzvb> pingfloyd: well that's what I have right now
13:24 < luke-jr> tefter: no, they're not; and the kernel parts are to protect kernel *from* userspace (like browser)
13:24 < luke-jr> browser patching merely protects webpage A from webpage B
13:24 < tefter> anyway I protect my data from spectre
13:24 < tefter> don't care about meltdown
13:25 < Nixola> when you copy something off of an HTML page, it usually has several targets (pure text and text/html)
13:25 < Nixola> does anyone know how to do the same thing when putting something in the clipboard through xclip?
13:25 < djph> tefter: only fixes are the kernel patches ...
13:26 < tefter> spectre can't read if region is mmaped to PROT_NONE
13:26 < sparrowsword> how do i ssh into windows10? im trying ssh sparrowsword@10.0.0.169 and i got the ipv4 from ipconfig... but it says connection timed out... ive used putty to ssh from windows10 into my raspberry pi, and now i am trying to ssh back, so that i can run a script from the raspberry pi, but use windows to process it and then send the results back to the pi machine
13:27 < luke-jr> tefter: yes it can..
13:27 < tefter> tried it, it can't
13:27 < rendar> can i check somehow that a remote host mounted a specific mountpoint exported by nfs?
13:27 < luke-jr> tried it, it can
13:27 < autopsy> sparrowsword, sounds like you don't have a solid route to your host.
13:27 < tefter> well does not works jere
13:27 < tefter> here *
13:27 < djph> sparrowsword: does your winbox have an SSH server installed?
13:28 < luke-jr> PROT_READ is a no-op on x86
13:28 < autopsy> rendar, nfsclient -I nfs://hostname
13:28 < djph> rendar: connect to it, check the output of 'mount' ?
13:28 < pingfloyd> it will be what creates skynet IRL
13:28 < tefter> tried all proof of concepts
13:28 < rendar> djph: i cannot connect, at least i can ping it
13:28 < luke-jr> tefter: be sure you use an anonymous mmap
13:29 < rendar> autopsy:bash: nfsclient: command not found
13:30 < tefter> mprotect
13:30 < tefter> just change to PROT_NONE after finished with data
13:30 < sparrowsword> djph: hmm, spose that might help...
13:30 < tefter> and spectre can't read
13:30 < sparrowsword> djph: autopsy: thank you
13:31 < autopsy> rendar, nfsstat
13:32 < Guddu> What does W stand for in this nmon CPU utilization chart? http://dpaste.com/2336AWZ
13:32 < rendar> autopsy: how can nfsstat help me?
13:33 < Guddu> Also, does this mean that I am out of memory on this machine? ---> http://dpaste.com/1VSP1X9
13:34 < tefter> Guddu by the grpah is stands for Wait
13:34 < autopsy> rendar, do you have nfs-utils installed?
13:34 < Guddu> tefter, Why is it consuming CPU on wait?
13:34 < rendar> E: Unable to locate package nfs-utils
13:34 < tefter> I am not familiar with that util
13:34 < autopsy> rendar, maybe try nfsutils
13:34 < pingfloyd> search for it
13:35 < autopsy> Do a dpkg-search for it.
13:35 < rendar> E: Unable to locate package nfsutils
13:35 < rendar> ok
13:35 < autopsy> Search for nfs
13:35 < autopsy> Client tools.
13:35 < autopsy> Server tools.
13:36 < rendar> no nfsutils found
13:36 < pingfloyd> apt-file search nfsstat
13:36 < pingfloyd> nfs-common in debian
13:36 < rendar> nfs-common yes, which i have installed
13:37 < rendar> nfs-common is already the newest version (1:1.3.4-2.1).
13:37 < pingfloyd> dpkg -S nfsstat also for searching installed packages
13:38 < autopsy> rpm -ql nfs-utils
13:38 < autopsy> Prints out all the files in that package.
13:39 < tefter> or pacman -Ql
13:40 < autopsy> eww  pacman
13:40 < autopsy> What does Slackware have?
13:41 < tefter> last time I used slackware it didn't have package manager ;)
13:41 < Dagmar> It's always had a package manager
13:41 < chamaeleon> mount -t ntfs 192.168.1.1/folder /mnt/folder
13:41 < jobezone> on a recent laptop, is it dumb to try and run arch on it? Better ubuntu and forget the grief of incompatability?
13:41 < chamaeleon> mount -t ntfs 192.168.1.1:/folder /mnt/folder
13:42 < Dagmar> jobezone: You *vastly* overestimate the utility in compiling things on every CPU
13:42 < chamaeleon> nfs* goddamit
13:42 < tefter> Dagma, slack saw my first distro back in 1997
13:43 < autopsy> I was using Slackware when it had kernel 1.2.1
13:43 < autopsy> What is it without a packgmngr then just tar -zxvf file.tgz ??
13:44 < tefter> yeah I used to just untar
13:44 < autopsy> Tarballs. Yeah he said balls.
13:44 < tefter> always tar.gz
13:44 < tefter> tgz is for Windows
13:44 < Armand> autopsy: I'll tar your balls!
13:45 < autopsy> Oh noes!
13:45 < Armand> >:D
13:45 < autopsy> Not today.
13:45 < Armand> damnit
13:46 < pingfloyd> so is it dumb to run arch on it?
13:47 < tcpdump> morning everyone
13:47 < pingfloyd> jobezone: what made you choose arch on it to begin with?
13:47 < jobezone> mmm
13:48 < jobezone> Was feeling slowliness with other distros
13:48 < jobezone> needed something more lean
13:48 < pingfloyd> on an old system?
13:48 < jobezone> not right now, but yeah, I switched to arch on a old one
13:48 < Armand> jobezone: I run Mint 17.3 Mate on a Pentium M, 2GHz.. seems ok to me.
13:49 < pingfloyd> which dist(s) gave your the lesser performance in comparison to arch?
13:49 < jobezone> pingfloyd: Fedora
13:49 < tefter> pacman is fastest pkg manager
13:49 < alish> Hi. I searched for suggested size of root "/" partition but there's not a certain opinion. I'm going to install fedora 28 and i'm fullStack dev who's moving to being linux dev.
13:49 < pingfloyd> tefter: I don't know about that
13:49 < alish> i have 500G hdd
13:50 < djph> alish: because there isn't a "standard" size for /
13:50 < Yardanico> I think like 50gb is more than enough for /
13:50 < Yardanico> unless you'll install things like intel C compiler in / partition
13:50 < Armand> I'm using a 16GB CF card in my laptop. :P
13:51 < tefter> I have intel C compiler and 20GB cache file and is occupying aroung 60 gigs
13:51 < mnemon> alish: do you have any other partitions?
13:51 < pingfloyd> Yardanico: yeah, in most cases
13:52 < pingfloyd> this of course assumes at least a separate /home
13:52 < alish> sorry for delay, i'm at work. I used to one partition at all but i'm tired of backing up home directory
13:53 < alish> i wanna sep root and home directory
13:53 < tefter> I have / on SSD and /home on HDD
13:53 < pingfloyd> alish: I make mine 30G they're pretty under utilized
13:53 < alish> mnemon: just home
13:54 < mnemon> alish: depends on the distro and where you store things for the application then, usually if you install things via the package managers the data goes under /var
13:55 < Yardanico> does it go under var? Maybe under /usr ?
13:56 < mnemon> Yardanico: the program goes under /usr, configs under /etc, runtime data(database files etc.) under /var usually
13:56 < mnemon> program meaning binaries/libs/docs ...
13:56 < pingfloyd> just make it an LV and forget about it for now
13:56 < mnemon> ^
13:56 < pingfloyd> so trivial to extend LVs
13:57 < pingfloyd> start off small and grow as needed
13:57 < pingfloyd> keeps some some PEs unallocated in your VG for snapshots
13:57 < alish_> pingfloyd: I don't wanna struggle with resizing partition later :) I had lubuntu 16.04 and I was going to install lubuntu 18.04 last night but lubuntu freezed at initializing install process.
14:00 < da1291>  Is there any way to connect TWO applications together in such a way that output of one application becomes input of the other. I wanted to connect web app with CLI app.
14:00 < jonan> you could do some regex shit with lots of pipes
14:01 < pingfloyd> da1291: that's what piping is
14:01 < jonan> da1291: https://ryanstutorials.net/linuxtutorial/piping.php
14:03 < da1291> cool! thanks
14:03 < da1291> actually I am working on a project to add web interface on a command line client server application . The data send by server will be redirected to dynamically created client side web page via command line.
14:03 < da1291> i am not trying to remove command line interface but use as an intermiudiate between the two
14:04 < BluesKaj> Howdy all
14:05 < autopsy> da1291, sounds like you know what you're doing.
14:05 < autopsy> BluesKaj, hi.
14:06 < da1291> autopy, yes exactly but I have no idea about the implementation.
14:06 < da1291> do you have any suggestions
14:07 < autopsy> da1291, why not use PHP?
14:07 < da1291> I am restricted to use ruby and javascript for interface
14:08 < autopsy> Ruby and Javascript?
14:08 < xata> > <autopsy> da1291, why not use PHP?
14:08 < da1291> yes sir, you heard right
14:08 < tvm> da1291: can't you just call the CLI app as a subprocess and pipe to it ?
14:08 < xata> Not the way good project ever started
14:09 < autopsy> No its great I think.
14:09 < da1291> its the restriction of the Open souce project. the whole project is written in ruby
14:09 < autopsy> Ruby on Rails.
14:09 < djph> sounds more like one or both sides needs a better API to work with ...
14:09 < autopsy> mov(eax bax0
14:09 < autopsy> Yeah sounds aabout right.
14:10 < autopsy> Hi TinyTimmyTokyo.
14:10 < xata> autopsy, don't forget how will you assembly up to your sockets
14:10 < da1291> djph I think it is a great idea
14:10 < autopsy> xata, socket programming is a snap in assembler.
14:11 < da1291> can you guys brief me about the logic
14:11 < xata> autopsy, orly, you import macro that calls C aaaand
14:11 < autopsy> Then you use the syscall.
14:11 < luke-jr> da1291: if their goal is to be able to run on the Ruby-only hosting services, you might not be able to do it
14:12 < autopsy> man fork
14:12 < Pentode> why use assembler if you are just going to call c routines from it? ;p
14:12 < xata> autopsy, lol, k
14:12  * luke-jr realises he has no clue what PPC64 assembly looks like
14:13 < zapotah> man fork: https://orig00.deviantart.net/2008/f/2011/114/8/8/fork_man_by_vodoogallery-d3esjug.jpg
14:13 < djph> da1291: what logic?
14:14 < zapotah> luke-jr: id imagine tears and crushed dreams
14:14 < da1291> luke-jr, but it is already working Only on ruby programming. and I am talking about metasploit
14:14 < luke-jr> zapotah: objjump'ing /bin/bash, it doesn't look too bad
14:15 < zapotah> that _doesnt_ sound like tears arent involved?
14:16 < zapotah> wait, thats a double negative
14:16 < da1291> djph, by logic i meant how should I approach this problem of linking comman\d line app. with dynamically created client side web interface
14:16  * zapotah needs sleep
14:17 < tefter> da1291, if your client app is not browser then just print to stdout
14:17 < tefter> and pipe it what ever
14:17 < djph> or write a new client that does what you want
14:18 < djph> I mean, seriously, "webinterface" -> "cli" -> "whatever" is pretty fragile
14:18 < candidat> hello guys :) Whats up linux brothers ?
14:19 < autopsy> Nothin my brotha.
14:19 < candidat> i have a link for great courses do you want it ?
14:20 < autopsy> Yeah. Intercourses.
14:20 < candidat> hahaha
14:20 < candidat> apt-get install women
14:21 < autopsy> Package woman not found
14:21 < autopsy> So what.
14:21  * pingf1oyd pings pingfloyd 
14:21 < jonan> dependencies for women not met, missing: time, money, looks
14:21 < Armand> Yo, dawg... we herd you liek pings
14:21 < autopsy> Are you ping one oyd?
14:22 < autopsy> We herd it through the grapevine.
14:23 < candidat> So what.
14:24 < autopsy> So ping you fool.
14:25 < autopsy> Hi jakogut
14:34 < Trieste> Hi, I found this guide on making a secure-ish locked down account only for ssh remote forwarding: https://www.joshcurry.co.uk/posts/ssh-create-a-tunnel-only-user-for-reverse-tunnels but it mentions the PermitOpen directive which doesn't seem to do anything in my case, I can remote forward any port to any number on the remote machine, what gives?
14:40 < dhawan> djph, thanks for helping.
14:40 < dhawan> tefter, my client is web-browser.
14:42 < R13ose> jim: hi
14:43 < tefter> dhawan, then how you can output anything from it?
14:43 < Blinky_> if I run a script as root and then call another script fom within it that is owned by the user will the script be run as root or the owner of the second script?
14:44 < tefter> Blinky I believe that child process inherits parents uid
14:45 < Blinky_> is there a way of calling the second script as the owner and not the parent?
14:46 < tefter> Blinky, change parent with setuid to what you want
14:46 < mnemon> Blinky_: sudo/su in the script
14:47 < mnemon> SUID doesn't work with intepreted scripts
14:52 < Blinky_> This acceptable?  Seems to be working - su -c "./north_calls_knuts.sh" -s /bin/sh backup_admin
14:52 < Blinky_> That is run as the root user
14:54 < spare> needs -l to set env for the new user or it uses roots
15:12 < rypervenche> Trieste: What are you putting after the PermitOpen option?
15:23 < ni0o> hi , does any one know how to install gdb peda?
15:27 < Blinky_> ky_> Hi all, I have started using ubuntu 18 for a media pc as Win10 crashed again during an update.  Iuse it for iplayer, plex and netflix mainly.  Could someone please tel me if it is possible to get 1080p from Netflix without any hacks to browsers?
15:28 < kope> does any one have ida 7 cracked?
15:29 < dviola> kope: this is not the place for warez
15:29 < autopsy> Blinky_, NetFlix in Google Chrome?
15:29 < revoltingPeasant> Blinky_: does google-chrome-stable from the aur not give you 1080p?
15:30 < revoltingPeasant> oh sorry wrong channel. It's in the AUR if you're on archlinux but you should be able to get it working on anything I think
15:31 < deadrom> hi
15:31 < deadrom> var/kern/log: "wlan0: Limiting TX power to 20 (20 - 0) dBm as advertised by 84:d4:7e:14:6c:82" <- who is this 84:d4... ? the AP?
15:32 < Blinky_> autopsy: Yeah mate, I have also tried in Firefox
15:32 < Celmor> anyone know of a terminal emulator that can be set to complain if I try and paste multiple lines (but not always when pasting)?
15:32 < Blinky_> autopsy: I am ready around and it all states that the only browser capable of 1080p without a plugin/hack is Edge?
15:33 < Psi-Jack> mz`: Fun?
15:33 < Blinky_> reading* not ready
15:35 < katie_> Blinky_: There's an extension for Chrome that supposedly works, though I haven't tried it myself. Here's a link to it on the chrome web store: https://goo.gl/D1K8uG
15:36 < katie_> While this probably counts as a "hack," there's no other way to get 1080p from Netflix without using IE, Safari, or Edge
15:37 < Blinky_> That right there is insane, just can't understand why they restrict it.  And from reading the reviews in the plugin it looks like Netflix have managed to break it so it doesn't work any more.  Cheers for the help, I will keep looking.
15:54 < Psi-Jack> bestucan: Fun?
15:54 < BlueShark> Is it possible to get a list of all the mimetypes that can be returned by `file` utility in Unix?
15:55 < deadrom> BlueShark: "magic library" on google or possibly man file..?
15:56 < bestucan[m]> prepare to go home
15:57 < bestucan> Psi-Jack: about change nick? first time use matrix
15:57 < Psi-Jack> bestucan: Yeah, can you not nick change flood in large channels, please? ;)
15:58 < solidfox> bestucan, I wanna go home
15:58 < phinxy> execute `file` on all files on the OS and do some piping magic to return unique results
15:58 < solidfox> bestucan, but how will I feed myself in 10 months if I quit?
15:58 < bestucan> Psi-Jack: sorry, I'll do that when I part all channel. ;)
15:58 < Psi-Jack> bestucan: Thanks very much.
15:59 < phinxy> Is it possible to `apt source` programs like file, readlink or other builtins?
16:00 < lone-wolf> I put this code in init.d named to wireshark and after give permittions ann run update-rc but dont work. https://pastebin.com/a9Kj7H90
16:01 < katie_> BlueShark: You could grep for lines starting with "!:mime" in all the files in `file`'s source code in the `magic/Magdir` directory: https://goo.gl/wvXudV
16:01 < Psi-Jack> phinxy: "file" isn't "builtin"
16:02 < flying_sausages> hey guys, in one of my scripts I'd like to execute a couple things that depend on a network interface to be up and reasy. However sometimes when I try to run "ifup mlan0" the device is not yet ready, and then the rest of the commands fail. How would you approach this problkem? With some sort of while loop until the device is ready? is there some better way to do this?
16:02 < BlueShark> katie_, `file -l` is kind of doing the same thing, I guess.
16:03 < BlueShark> Psi-Jack, you mean me instead?
16:03 < Psi-Jack> BlueShark: No.
16:03 < mz`> Psi-Jack, so far so good
16:04 < Psi-Jack> mz`: Yeah, would you kindly not nick change flood in large channels, please?
16:07 < katie_> BlueShark: Ah, you're right. Didn't see that flag. In that case, `file -l | grep -Po "(?<=\[)([\w\/]+)(?=\])" | sort | uniq` should get you what you want
16:10 < rypervenche> I'm having a brain fart. What is the thing that people do to get information from you to then be able to "hack" you? I forgot the term. Where you may pretend to be someone you're not and get info that way.
16:10 < candidat> rypervenche social engeneering
16:10 < katie_> rypervenche: Phishing?
16:10 < rypervenche> candidat: Thank you much.
16:10 < candidat> no worries bro
16:10 < unixfreak> hi, has anyone experience with configuring a 120hz/144hz monitor that has "nvidia lightboost" features? i have a strange problem with ghosting, despite setting the correct Modelines, https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/nvidia-lightboost-on-a-144hz-monitor-need-help-with-xorg-conf-4175630284/ If anyone knows anything about "nvidia lightboost" on Linux, would be very helpful to me
16:13 < BlueShark> katie_, Yours is returning only 41 entries. I believe it excluded the ones with hyphen since you're using [\w\/]
16:13 < BlueShark> katie_, I ended up doing something similar - file -l | grep -ioP '\[\K[^]]+(?=\])' | sort -u
16:14 < katie_> BlueShark: Ah whoops, my bad! Glad you got it working
16:14 < BlueShark> katie_, thanks a lot. mind a PM?
16:15 < ayecee> uh oh
16:15 < BlueShark> ho uh
16:16 < katie_> Sure, not sure why you'd need to ask
16:16 < BluesKaj> Psi-Jack, these users sound like little kids
16:16 < Evanbit> hi all how would I implement ptp ?
16:16 < BlueShark> well, some people find it rude to message someone without asking first in the channel. then again, some people find it rude to _ask_ first in the channel before. you never know :p
16:16 < ayecee> Evanbit: poorly
16:17 < Evanbit> :)
16:17 < Evanbit> ?
16:21 < Evanbit> IEEE 1588
16:41 < phinxy> modprobe --first-run uinput shows that the module is "already in kernel".  lsmod shows no uinput.  What?
16:43 < rendar> when someone pings me in linux, what is the facility that actually replies to the pings? where i can configure it?
16:44 < ananke> rendar: it's the kernel's networking subsystem. what do you want 'configured'?
16:45 < phinxy> Why is it a subsystem?
16:45 < rendar> the packet's data kernel replies
16:46 < ananke> rendar: what about it?
16:46 < rendar> ananke: i wish to check from my raspberry, with a simple ping or something simple like that if something is on or off in my local desktop machine
16:47 < ananke> rendar: not sure how you propose to solve this with ICMP reply. why don't you simply use a basic tcp service?
16:48 < rendar> ananke: yes, i will use nc
16:48 < rendar> ananke: i was just thinking to some script which will set auto icmp packet's reply to 0 or 1
16:49 < ananke> uhmm, no such thing as 'icmp packet reply 0 or 1'
16:53 < autopsy> rendar, what are you checking if its on or off? Networking?
16:54 < rendar> autopsy: nope, basically i have to check if the destkop machine has mounted a nfs path, which resides into the raspberry nfs-server
16:56 < dob1> hi, can someone help me with this bash script ?  https://pastebin.com/x5i4zfk1
16:56 < dob1> the dirs are mounted but I got "It's not mounted"
16:57 < autopsy> dob1, use blkid to get UUID of the partitions.
16:58 < dob1> autopsy, ok but I was asking something different
16:58 < dob1> the problem is the multiple conditions in the if, It works with just a single condition
16:58 < dzove855> dob1: because youre return code of grep is 0, try this you will se
16:59 < dzove855> (( 0 )) && echo yes
16:59 < dzove855> this will not print out
16:59 < dob1> and why "if grep -qs "$mount1" /proc/mounts; then .... " works?
17:00 < dzove855> because this is not an arithmetic check, just a command check
17:00 < dzove855> command check if the return code != 0 is a failure
17:00 < katie_> dob1: The second `grep` statement is also wrong; you have quotes around both $mount2 and /proc/mounts
17:00 < rendar> if mountpoint -q $dir; then
17:02 < dzove855> dob1: event the solution of rendar is much cleaner
17:02 < dob1> katie_, thanks katie
17:03 < dob1> sorry but what I miss it's how to write multiple conditions in this case
17:05 < dob1> [ EXPR1 -a EXPR2 ]	  ??
17:06 < Psi-Jack> [[ EXPR1 && EXPR2 ]]
17:06 < Psi-Jack> [ ... -a ... ] is old syntax, though.
17:07 < rendar> if [[ expr1 ]] && [[ expr2 ]]; then
17:08 < Psi-Jack> if [[ expr1 && expr2 ]] and if [[ expr1 ]]  && [[ expr2 ]] can result in different results.
17:08 < rendar> Psi-Jack: how?
17:08 < Psi-Jack> Look it up. :)
17:09 < dob1> if [[ mountpoint -q "$mount1"; ]] && [[ mountpoint -q "$mount2"; ]] then    doesn't work
17:09 < Psi-Jack> -q?
17:09 < rendar> 17:08 | <rendar> if [[ expr1 && expr2 ]] and if [[ expr1 ]]  && [[ expr2 ]] can result in different results?
17:09 < rendar> 17:09 | <kurahaupo> rendar: no
17:09 < rendar> Psi-Jack: please don't say BS
17:10 < Psi-Jack> rendar: I'm never do.
17:10 < Psi-Jack> s/I'm/I/
17:10 < Dominian> I'm never do too
17:10 < Psi-Jack> rendar: It /shouldn't/, but there'd been many bug reports about it in the past, if not still present,
17:11 < dzove855> you have here a syntax error
17:11 < dzove855> if [[ mountpoint -q "$mount1"; ]] && [[ mountpoint -q "$mount2"; ]] then
17:11 < dzove855> it should be:
17:11 < dzove855> if [[ mountpoint -q "$mount1"; ]] && [[ mountpoint -q "$mount2"; ]]; then
17:11 < Psi-Jack> And... What's with the ;'s?
17:11 < rendar> dzove855: wrong
17:11 < rendar> if [[ mountpoint -q "${mount1}" ]] && [[ mountpoint -q "${mount2}" ]]; then
17:11 < rendar> that's the best version in the universe
17:12 < dzove855> rendar: yes right, that's better haha
17:12 < rendar> but there's a better version
17:12 < Freekid> guys ubuntu vs debian which one is better?
17:12 < Psi-Jack> And... Again.. -q?
17:12 < rendar> if mountpoint -q "${mount1}" && mountpoint -q "${mount2}"; then
17:12 < Psi-Jack> No need for {} around that either. :p
17:12 < rendar> Psi-Jack: it's better to use {} always
17:12 < Freekid> I mean which one uses less ram  debian or ubuntu? without any gui
17:12 < Psi-Jack> Not really.
17:12 < rendar> Psi-Jack: why?
17:12 < revel> Freekid: LFS.
17:13 < Psi-Jack> rendar: That is an opinion.
17:13 < Freekid> LFS? what is it? revel
17:13 < revel> Linux From Scratch.
17:13 < rendar> Psi-Jack: if you say so
17:13 < Freekid> nah i mean without any gui debian vs ubuntu withone uses less ram?
17:13 < revel> LFS.
17:13 < dob1> rendar, it doesn't work
17:14 < Freekid> chose between those 2 revel
17:14 < rendar> dob1: you have messed up something then
17:14 < Psi-Jack> dob1: Qhat qis qith qhe -q?
17:14 < Psi-Jack> :)
17:14 < rendar> --quiet
17:14 < rendar> otherwise mountpoint prints in stdout
17:14 < dob1> yes it's the -q the error
17:14 < maxxe> Freekid, really hard to tell. depends on the versions of the programs that are installed. almost impossible to tell.
17:14 < revel> No. Anyways, it probably also depends on the services you want to be running. And if you really want to go low-memory, then compile everything yourself with -Os.
17:14 < Psi-Jack> dob1: man test; -q isn't there.
17:14 < rendar> dob1: what system do you use?
17:15 < Freekid> default program maxxe
17:15 < dob1> but this works if mountpoint -q "${mount1}" && mountpoint -q "${mount2}"; then
17:15 < Psi-Jack> Heh
17:15 < Freekid> nothing extra installed
17:15 < dob1> this doesn't work if [[ mountpoint -q "${mount1}" ]] && [[ mountpoint -q "${mount2}" ]]; then
17:15 < dob1> rendar, debian
17:15 < rendar> dob1: you can't use [[ ]]
17:15 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. [[ ]] in this is not valid.
17:15 < rendar> whoever adviced you [[ ]] or [ ], demonstrates asinine behavior
17:16 < mawk> asinine
17:16 < dob1> but can I get the exit code of the above commands, let's say exitcode1 and exitcode2 and then check an if if exitcode1 == 0 && exitcode2 == 0
17:16 < rendar> dob1: that's exactly what if does!
17:16 < rendar> it checks if the exit code is 0
17:16 < rendar> so, no worries here
17:16 < rendar> if you want exit code of the last launched program, it will be stored in $?
17:17 < dob1> the commands are both executed or there is the short circuiting?
17:18 < rendar> there is short circ. of course
17:18 < dob1> thanks for the help!
17:18 < rendar> welcime
17:18 < rendar> welcome
17:22 < candidat> make me an admin !
17:22 < fattredd> alias znc msg *status
17:22 < Psi-Jack> No.
17:23 < candidat> teach me admin skills
17:23 < candidat> books, blogs, exercice
17:23 < Psi-Jack> Teach yourself. Learn by doing.
17:23 < candidat> i want it all
17:23 < mawk> learn to code, instead
17:23 < mawk> it's funnier
17:24 < candidat> mawk can you get rich by coding ?
17:24 < mawk> absolutely
17:24 < candidat> mawk then i learn that too
17:25 < candidat> which language should i take ? python  ?
17:25 < mawk> depends on your goals
17:25 < ayecee> english. creative writing.
17:25 < mawk> lol
17:25 < candidat> lol
17:25 < morenoh149> do python
17:25 < morenoh149> to be rich
17:26 < ayecee> documentation is very important.
17:26 < mawk> if you have a low patience you can go with python
17:26 < mawk> if you have some kind of OCD you can go with brainfuck
17:26 < candidat> python then ! :D that s seems to be easy
17:26 < mawk> see, every personnality gets its language
17:27 < candidat> brainfuck will make me crazy ?
17:27 < mawk> it will make you smarter
17:28 < candidat> mawk cool !
17:28 < funksh0n> Hi all.
17:28 < FMan> hi
17:29 < adac> Is there a way to edit a file witout deleteing it? I think vim deletes it when its saved
17:30 < morenoh149> adac: vim doesn't have to do that
17:31 < jim> hi
17:31 < morenoh149> just do :x to save and quit
17:31 < morenoh149> nano can edit without deleting as well, no decent editor would delete a file after saving it
17:31 < jim> adac, is there a different editor that does not?
17:32 < maxxe> edit a file without deleting it? that sounds really strange. it should be the default for any editor
17:32 < adac> morenoh149, ok thanks trying that
17:32 < adac> jim, probably not :)
17:32 < adac> maxxe, yea
17:32 < adac> :D
17:32 < autopsy> No editors round here boy.
17:32 < jim> morenoh149, that would kinda defeat the purpose of having files, if it deleted it after saving it :)
17:32 < maxxe> and then I really mean ANY
17:32 < autopsy> Yeah LOL
17:33 < adac> hehe
17:34 < adac> stupid docker doesn't update the mounted file that is my problem actually
17:34 < jim> yep, got a new distribution of linux, I'm gonna call it bizarro gumby linux... runs the bad ol rm invocation every hour :)
17:34 < adac> when i modify it on the host
17:34 < adac> only when i restart the container it gets updated in the host
17:34 < mawk> maxxe: it's common to do that to prevent race conditions
17:34 < maxxe> eh?
17:34 < mawk> and let programs that still have the old file open gracefully terminate with the old version in memory
17:34 < mawk> deleting the file to create a new one with the same name
17:34 < maxxe> stange ppl around
17:35 < maxxe> strange*
17:35 < funksh0n> Is it possible to connect to two different networks with two interfaces?
17:35 < mawk> so it wouldn't be insane for vim to do that
17:35 < mawk> why not funksh0n ?
17:35 < dgurney> funksh0n, yes, of course
17:35 < jim> funksh0n, yes, that would make the machine in the middle, the router
17:36 < mawk> if he wants to connect the two networks yeah
17:36 < Evidlo> its not necessarily a router
17:36 < mawk> he can also connect to the networks, without linking them
17:36 < mawk> that's what he meant I think
17:36 < mawk> I read "connecting the networks" at first too
17:36 < jim> but if both of these nets have default routes (something called multihoming), the router has extra work to do
17:37 < funksh0n> I want to connect to my wifi router, and using ethernet to another router on a seprate network
17:37 < mawk> then just do it funksh0n
17:37 < Evidlo> He probably just means his laptop
17:37 < mawk> but get sure to only use one of the two networks for the default gateway
17:37 < mawk> but normally cable will take precedence over wifi
17:37 < jim> does the wifi router connect to the net in general?
17:37 < mawk> the default route will have a lower metric value
17:39 < Evidlo> funksh0n (IRC): just make sure the subnets are on different ranges if you want to be able to access devices on both local networks
17:39 < Evidlo> a
17:40 < funksh0n> yes the wifi router provides internet.  the other router just has a few devices plugged in.
17:40 < jim> funksh0n, so the "other router" does not provide internet (and with it, a default route)?
17:41 < Evidlo> you should still make the subnets different if you want it to be easy
17:41 < jim> yeah
17:42 < nohop> hey guys
17:43 < jim> I got a program that mostly works on debian derivs (it's packaged), what it does is provide exactly the routing task needed to get them connected... it "calculates" an ipmasq firewall, spitting out iptables rules as it goes
17:43 < jim> nohop, hi
17:44 < nohop> Is there an alternative to xml_grep that lets me grap xml tags like <a><b c='d'/></a>   <=- the c='d' in there? xml_grep would only give me the entire b-tag
17:44 < nohop> I could do some regex magic, but i'd rather use something 'neat' :)
17:45 < funksh0n> which man pages should I read? :)
17:46 < wad> I want to use rsync to backup a root-owned directory from a remove linux box to my linux desktop. I can't log onto the remote machine as root, but I can use sudo without a password. The non-root user can't read all the root-owned files, but the backup needs them. Can rsync even do this? Googls have not shown me a way so far...
17:46 < jim> nohop, if you did this in perl or python, they both have specific xml parsers, a few of which make a tree data structure out of the xml it parses, and let you look at that tree however you want to
17:46 < wad> * I can ssh to the remove machine as the regular user, then become root via "sudo -i" without having to specify a passwrd.
17:46 < wad> s/remove/remote/
17:47 < compdoc> I use 'sudo rsync' and it seems to grab all files. you can always test
17:48 < jim> funksh0n, what dist do you run?
17:48 < nohop> jim: Sure. But since it's a bash-script, I preferred something I could do 'directly' using some external tool.
17:48 < nohop> But maybe python or whatever will make my life easier in this case :)
17:49 < jim> I guess that's possible
17:49 < jim> here's the issue: it's "type of language", and regexp is not the same "type" as xml
17:50 < nohop> Would that 'c' tag in my hypothetical xml structure be called a/b/c ? Or a/b<something else>c ? :)
17:50 < funksh0n> jim arch linux
17:50 < jim> that can lead to some difficulty in parsing it
17:51 < nohop> True. Oh well. I'll hack some nasty shit together :)
17:51 < jim> funksh0n, hmm. dunno much about arch, and, you should be able to create the masqing rules yourself
17:51 < jim> the program I have does a few other things
18:01 < bls> nohop: xmllint can use XPATH to extract specific elements/attributes
18:08 < darkdrgn2k> is there any reason why an interface (specifically wlan interfacE) would not send out broadcasts?
18:09 < autopsy> darkdrgn2k, what does it need to be sending out broadcast packets for?
18:10 < darkdrgn2k> because i asked it to?
18:10 < darkdrgn2k> There is service out there that use broadcasts to find other like services
18:12 < autopsy> darkdrgn2k, how do you know it isn't sending the packets?
18:13 < darkdrgn2k> i dont see anything comming out the wlan0 interface with tcpdump
18:13 < krobzaur> Anybody here have libreoffice impress skills? I have an extremely specific request
18:13 < autopsy> Oh no not something specific.
18:13 < darkdrgn2k> but doing iptables log i do see them being generated
18:14 < darkdrgn2k> specific: Secure ScutteBot does not find peers over WIFI but only Lan
18:14 < dob1> in which cases I have to put "" around a variable in a bash script ?    for example rsync -avzh "$dir1" "$dir2"    it's the same of rsync -avzh $dir1 $dir2   ?
18:14 < darkdrgn2k> diagnosis: uses BROADCAST packets to find peers on a LAN
18:15 < autopsy> dob1, in the case the filename has spaces in it you need quotes.
18:17 < krobzaur> It's pretty simple in concept though
18:17 < krobzaur> I just need to reduce the height of a rectangular prism without modifying and other dimensions
18:17 < krobzaur> s/and/any
18:18 < horseface> is there anyway to enable autocorrect in hunspell?
18:18 < darkdrgn2k> so no ideas on broadcast ?
18:18 < autopsy> darkdrgn2k, the broadcast address should be like 192.168.1.255
18:19 < darkdrgn2k> yes
18:19 < darkdrgn2k> or 255.255.255.255
18:19 < darkdrgn2k> ping 192.168.0.255 -b
18:19 < darkdrgn2k> does not generate ay traffic on the wireless internface
18:20 < autopsy> darkdrgn2k, can you run ifconfig > file.log and post a URL to the output file?
18:21 < jim> darkdrgn2k, the machine in question isn't on the net at the moment?
18:21 < darkdrgn2k> not on the internet no
18:22 < jim> ok, so you'd have to somehow get the file across (got a blank usb stick, or one that's formatted?
18:22 < darkdrgn2k> https://pastebin.com/tvC25bSc
18:22 < darkdrgn2k> wlan0 is connected wlan1 is access point with no one on it tun0 is a "vpn" on top of wlan0
18:22 < darkdrgn2k> sorry wlan1
18:23 < darkdrgn2k> eth is not connected
18:23 < darkdrgn2k> only traffic i see is the vpn traffic (that i filter out)
18:24 < jim> you have two wlans?
18:24 < darkdrgn2k> yes physical radios
18:24 < darkdrgn2k> wlan-ap is idle (just an access point)
18:24 < darkdrgn2k> wlan1 is the actual link
18:24 < msiism> when you invoke a program on the command line and provide invalid arguments, you will often not only get an error message, but also sth like "Try [prog] --help for help". my question now is: should the latter also be written to stderr? i don't think so.
18:24 < darkdrgn2k> and what im trying ot broadcast over
18:27 < darkdrgn2k> May 23 16:27:32 localhost kernel: [92192.321841] IN= OUT=tun0 SRC=10.1.0.3 DST=255.255.255.255 LEN=94 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=31593 DF PROTO=UDP SPT=8008 DPT=8008 LEN=74
18:27 < darkdrgn2k> i see the boradcast going out the tun0 interface but tahst it
18:28 < msiism> ok, cp writes the "--help" notice to stderr as well (just tested it).
18:28 < autopsy> Help cp help.
18:29 < msiism> autopsy: ?
18:31 < autopsy> msiism, help me help me cp.
18:31 < autopsy> msiism, what do you mean it prints to stderr?
18:33 < msiism> autopsy: if you make a mistake when invoking 'cp', it will print out an error message. and that goes to stderr of the shell. it will also print "Try 'cp --help' for more information." And that also goes to stderr.
18:34 < autopsy> msiism, oh I thought you meant cp --help prints to stderr.
18:34 < msiism> autopsy: no.
18:34 < autopsy> Ok.
18:35 < msiism> autopsy: i was just wondering if i should print the "Try --help" message to stderr in my own scripts. looks like it's not wrong.
18:36 < autopsy> msiism, yeah wrong shmong.
18:38 < jim> darkdrgn2k, what are you using the eth port for at the moment?
18:39 < darkdrgn2k> ntohing
18:39 < darkdrgn2k> its not connected
18:40 < jim> oh ok, you could temporarily provide net to that machine by using an eth cable to connect it to the outgoing router and pulling a dhcp addr
18:40 < autopsy> Dynamic Host Control Prot ocol.
18:41 < azarus> Dynamic Host Chump Protocol.
18:41 < jim> dhcpo?
18:41 < darkdrgn2k> i know.. getting net is not hte problem
18:41 < autopsy> Yeah its a new version.
18:46 < hassoon> hi
18:58 < qrvpzvb> for MDAM arrays, whould I partion the disks first?
19:01 < michaelrose> no
19:01 < Isky> .away
19:01 < Isky> Sorry
19:02 < michaelrose> qrvpzvb, no
19:02 < qrvpzvb> so I should use the raw disks?
19:02 < michaelrose> yes but you may also want to look at zfs
19:02 < qrvpzvb> thanks but no
19:03 < michaelrose> basically you create the filesystem on top of the raid device
19:03 < qrvpzvb> what do you mean? about zfs?
19:04 < michaelrose> zfs is a filesystem, encryption system, volume manager, and raid in one
19:04 < qrvpzvb> yes, I know, I've tried it
19:05 < michaelrose> you get transparent compression and if applicable dedup as well as better data integrity guruntees as each block is checksumed
19:07 < candidat> :-)
19:07 < rendar> can i check if someone is logged from remote? e.g. like who|grep "pts/"
19:09 < mnemon> rendar: last shows history and current sessions
19:09 < rendar> mnemon: but NOT if the user is from remote or localhost!
19:10 < mnemon> rendar: it even shows the ip
19:11 < mnemon> so yes, also the source host
19:12 < mnemon> assuming pts
19:18 < CrazyH> So, I forgot / lost the password to one of my remote servers ( it's running Ubuntu ). I can't sudo and I don't have root access. However I can login with an SSH key. Is there anyway to use that ssh key to change my password so that I can sudo?
19:19 < azarus> CrazyH: issue `passwd` on that machine
19:19 < darkdrgn2k> or start it in single user mode
19:19 < azarus> ah, you want to change the root password?
19:19 < CrazyH> azarus, I don't know the password. so passwd won't let me change it
19:20 < darkdrgn2k> single user mode?
19:20 < ananke> CrazyH: no, you can't.
19:20 < CrazyH> darkdrgn2k, never heard of single user mode.
19:20 < CrazyH> I'll look into it
19:20 < noodlepie> login with key, run passwd
19:20 < darkdrgn2k> you have physical sccess to the machine?
19:21 < ananke> noodlepie: he won't be able to.
19:21 < noodlepie> login with an ssh key as user or root?
19:21 < CrazyH> darkdrgn2k, no. It's an AWS server
19:21 < ananke> noodlepie: he already said he doesn't have root access.
19:21 < darkdrgn2k> ah wont work then it needs to be triggered as startup
19:21 < ananke> CrazyH: contact amazon support.
19:22 < noodlepie> have to reboot the machine from cdrom or usb live/rescue image, mount the / and run passwd before rebooting again
19:22 < nekOwOseam> Hewwo guys UwU
19:27 < nekOwOseam> Which do you prefer, RPM or DEB?
19:33 < laggger164> Guys, I have a problem with my PCI USB card which uses the VIA VT6212L chip. Nothing I plug into it works, but it does work on my old windows XP machine... so what gives?
19:34 < hexnewbie> Buy a newer USB 3 card? Or use the integrated USB ports, modern motherboards have like 8 of those, plus connectors on the motherboard for like 8 more
19:34 < koala_man> laggger164: is it recognized?
19:34 < laggger164> koala_man: Yes, I can see it in lspci -nn
19:35 < koala_man> laggger164: can you see it in lsusb?
19:35 < Isky> Do you have the proper kernel mod loaded?
19:35 < laggger164> koala_man: Doesn't look like it, not sure how I can differentiate it.
19:35 < laggger164> Isky: I have no idea :D
19:36 < laggger164> I am on Kubuntu 18:04 if that helps
19:36 < hexnewbie> laggger164: Run ‘lspci -v’ and look for ‘Kernel driver in use’. If there is one, it is recognised by one.
19:36 < laggger164> There are 3 of them
19:37 < laggger164> uhci_hcd, uhci_hcd and ehci-pci
19:37 < hexnewbie> That sounds about right
19:37 < laggger164> uhci is for the USB1.1 part
19:37 < koala_man> what does dmesg say about it?
19:38 < hexnewbie> laggger164: Do those appear for the VIA card in lspci? Double-check it's not for the motherboards USB controller.
19:38 < laggger164> hexnewbie: Definitely not, also they are on the same group.
19:38 < hexnewbie> Definitely not meaning definitely not for the VIA card, or definitely not for the motherboard USB controller?
19:39 < laggger164> hexnewbie: Definitely not the motherboard controller, I am looking at the VIA chipet there
19:39 < laggger164> Wait uh..
19:39 < laggger164> WHAT?
19:39 < laggger164> It just recognized the drive
19:39 < laggger164> ...
19:39 < laggger164> WAT?
19:40 < koala_man> \o/
19:40 < laggger164> I tried it yesterday and 5 minutes ago
19:40 < koala_man> another problem solved by ##linux
19:40 < laggger164> And didn't work
19:40 < Isky> :D
19:40 < hexnewbie> USB hard drives take some time to get recognised. Even SATA/SAS drives do, so it's not generally a USB thing
19:40 < laggger164> It was a flash drive, but still
19:40 < laggger164> Now let's see if the mouse will work
19:40 < hexnewbie> laggger164: Ah, flash drives should be immediately detected. I will reiterate my earlier suggestion to get a newer PCI USB card and/or use the motherboard ports.
19:41 < hexnewbie> Given that I found USB problematic, I tend to replace hardware I know to be causing problems whenever that's an option.
19:42 < laggger164> Oh?
19:42 < koala_man> meh, that's the Apple philosophy, not the Linux way
19:42 < laggger164> I plugged the mouse with the flash drive still inside and nothing
19:42 < laggger164> Then I unplugged the drive and... instantly there?
19:43 < hexnewbie> Applied slightly loosely though, given that that's how I'd describe *all* USB hardware. :)
19:43 < laggger164> Wat?
19:43 < laggger164> I am a cheapskate, not an option for me :D
19:43 < koala_man> laggger164: do you have other USB ports to see if this is a udev issue or something?
19:43 < hexnewbie> Well, if the USB controller causes you to lose all your data tomorrow, it may turn out that's the more expensive option.
19:43 < laggger164> This isn't a business environment, It's my tinker box which I also call my main computer
19:44 < laggger164> Yeah, I have plenty
19:44 < laggger164> There are 4 on the outside and 1 on the inside of the case
19:44 < laggger164> Also, all motherboard USBs work, I just want to pass through this card to a VM
19:44 < koala_man> fun
19:45 < koala_man> does dmesg say anything when you plug in a device that doesn't work?
19:45 < Freekid> hi it seems "sudo iotop" not working in ubuntu server
19:45 < Freekid> fo me
19:45 < Isky> Freekid: I don't think iotop is part of the base image.
19:45 < laggger164> W8
19:45 < koala_man> doesn't work for me either. mostly because iotop is not installed
19:45 < Isky> It's definitely not in RHEL.
19:45 < Freekid> i have installed it Isky
19:46 < Isky> Freekid: soo.. "doesn't work" is really vague. What's the actual problem?
19:46 < Freekid> it says " ValueError: need more than 1 value to unpack"
19:46 < laggger164> Nothing
19:46 < laggger164> Straight up nothing
19:46 < hexnewbie> iotop is written in Python, so whenever the I/O is really really heavy it may never open because Python cannot load all extension modules iotop uses for like... 20 minutes.
19:46 < Isky> Freekid: have you tried pasting iotop and that error into google?
19:47 < Happyhobo> I have a nonlinux question that is very simple and will not require a great deal of time to answer.
19:47 < laggger164> koala_man: I plugged the mouse back in and nothing
19:47 < laggger164> Weeeird
19:47 < koala_man> laggger164: any errors in dmesg?
19:47 < Isky> hexnewbie: really? I've had it work for me when my i/o was pretty much at 98% in vmware all day.
19:47 < koala_man> laggger164: does the LED turn on? does it show in lsusb?
19:47 < Freekid> it worked in ubuntu desktop no idea why it doesnt work in ubuntu server!
19:48 < Happyhobo> When constructing things with cardboard that use slots and tabs, is it tab a into slot a or tab a into slot b?
19:48 < Isky> Freekid: are you running an alternate kernel?
19:48 < laggger164> Nothing in dmesg and nothing in lsusb
19:48 < Freekid> GNU/Linux 4.4.0-127-generic x86_64
19:48 < laggger164> This is very weird
19:48 < hexnewbie> Isky: 98% may be nothing. We're talking 100%, on a network attached root, with system load of 200, and crazy iowait numbers. And iotop takes 10-50 times slower than other programs to load, because top has to open a single binary (shared libraries already in memory), and iotop needs to open 30 Python modules.
19:49 < Isky> Freekid: there's a bug filed against it, but it says it's solved in the latest version from debian. not sure about ubuntu.
19:49 < hexnewbie> The best part is when that happens and you don't have it installed, and you need to wait for it to install, *then* run it.
19:49 < Isky> hexnewbie: his error is one I recognized from a bug from last month. :P
19:50 < Isky> but out of debian, not ubuntu, so...
19:50 < Isky> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=844173
19:50 < Isky> hexnewbie: I've also seen it quite a few times myself when I've written crappy code.
19:51 < Freekid> oh god its bug :3
19:51 < Freekid> it not gonna work
19:51 < Isky> Freekid: it may not be? .. I mean, yes, this usualy means there's a bug, but it may be fixable.
19:51 < laggger164> koala_man: Weird, now it doesn't recognize the USB flash drive anymore
19:51 < Isky> Freekid: apt-get update (or aptitude, or whatever you're using) and see if there's a new version
19:52 < Freekid> okay
19:52 < Isky> Freekid: it basically means "your code said I'd have n number of values, where n > 1, but I'm only getting 1 when I do what you said"
19:52 < koala_man> laggger164: weird. flaky power?
19:53 < hexnewbie> Eh,  they changed /proc/$pid/status format and broke iotop? Yeah. Don't write code that way. I wonder if my personal Python diskstats parsers (top/iotop/iostat-like) are also probably broken by the sane thing.
19:53 < hexnewbie> same
19:53 < hexnewbie> er, /proc parsers
19:53 < laggger164> Impossible, the PSU is good quality and has more than enough wattage
19:53 < laggger164> Not to mention I am not running anything
19:54 < Isky> hexnewbie: yeah.. i cou;d
19:54 < Isky> gah
19:54 < Isky> hexnewbie: I couldn't remember what happened, only that I'd seen it looking for something else.
19:54 < Isky> hexnewbie: they did it back a couple of years ago, though, I thought. So, I'm confused by this being a recently filed bug.
19:55 < hexnewbie> Debian ships ancient software
19:55 < Isky> hexnewbie: he's in ubuntu, though, so.. yeah, I see your point.
19:56 < laggger164> I'll try restarting again, that tends to help :D
19:57 < Freekid> okay so there is no way right now its to work
19:57 < Isky> ...
19:57 < Isky> reboot should not be a solution. :P
19:57 < Freekid> ok ill wait
19:57 < Freekid> noo
19:57 < Freekid> i think i should switch to debian lol
19:58 < triceratux> thats always true. it worked for google
19:58 < Isky> Freekid: or you could just go get a new version of iotop off the internet. It's python. It's not like you'd need to compile anythning.
20:01 < sauvin> Which version of python?
20:01 < tomty89> I don't think iotop is still being maintained...
20:01 < jim> Isky, you're right of course, and, there are a couple situations where you would reboot, and one of those is if you're testing a situation you've set up to run at boot
20:01 < tomty89> At least that patch wasn't upstream
20:01 < Isky> sauvin: it's not python itself that's the issue.. it's that something iotop reads has changed format, and the code isn't handling it.
20:02 < tomty89> though you can easily edit or patch the script yourself
20:02 < Isky> jim: and replacing kernels. :P Yeah, I was being a bit too general there.
20:02 < Isky> tomty89: ooh. I thought it was available.
20:02 < jim> no big deal, I just wanted to make sure you were aware
20:03 < Isky> jim: yeah. I just.. he's rebooting because he's got some really old piece of hardware that doesn't seem to work well in his more modern system. Like, that's his answer to when it isn't working right. :/
20:04 < tomty89> hmm never mind, perhaps they just haven't been having releases: http://repo.or.cz/w/iotop.git
20:04 < Isky> jim: Also, it's a knee jerk to my coworkers always thinking a reboot fixes things. Can't connect to my nfs server? How about we reboot it from vmware! Someone isn't getting one mail from someone else? reboot the spam filter! An SSL cert is giving an error that it expired? reboot the web server! *sigh*
20:05 < bls> debian often takes ownership of useful but abandoned projects
20:05 < Isky> tomty89: I think it's been 6 or 7 months since I grabbed source for iotop, but I'm mostly in RHEL.. it never stopped working there.
20:05 < bls> Isky: root causing is for nerds!
20:05 < koala_man> Isky: does it work often enough that they keep doing it?
20:06 < tomty89> Isky: 0.6 was 4 years ago, but last commit was this month...
20:06 < Isky> koala_man: it doesn't work, but it makes nagios scream and wakes me up, so I fix whatever... yeah, I guess it does work. T_T
20:07 < Isky> man. that's depressing. I'm gonna go find lunch and try not to think about work now.
20:07 < koala_man> hahaha
20:08 < koala_man> I'm going to steal this story
20:11 < bls> sounds kind of like me disabling reboot related commands via sudo and people seeking older and older people to find ways around, disable reboot because new guy keeps using it, he goes and finds someone that uses shutdown -r, disable it. they go find an old dude that uses telinit...
20:14 < tomty89> bls: maybe you should only *enable* certain commands
20:14 < tomty89> whitelist > blacklist :P
20:18 < bls> it was part of a larger mess. was easier to just move unrelated services onto their own VMs so people could reboot to their heart's conent and not impact others if they were too lazy to triage and correct their service's outages
20:18 < tomty89> VM > *
20:19 < bls> but it was on the tail end of the buy a massive box, put everything on it era
20:20 < pingf1oyd> koala_man: I am here to free your mind.
20:21 < aBound> Howdy doo, do. :P
20:21 < ayecee> so, ubuntu 18.04 server installer crashes with a traceback after selecting disk, but then restarts the process so i can't see the traceback. anyone know offhand where that might be logged, or how to get it to not restart?
20:22 < compdoc> ayecee, brand new drive?
20:22 < pingf1oyd> ayecee: use another tty to control the process?
20:22 < pingf1oyd> ayecee: a loop perhaps that runs in another tty that constantly tries to copy the log to a safer place?
20:23 < pingf1oyd> and so on
20:23 < aBound> Those nasty Ubuntu 18.04 bugs. :P
20:23 < ayecee> heh, gotta find the log first. however, this looks promising, /var/log/installer/subiquitiy-debug.log
20:23 < pingf1oyd> ayecee: note, I don't know what process or traceback or log you're talking about, but that's something I would have done.
20:23 < aBound> I'm still on Ubuntu 16.04.4 until the point release of 18.04.1 :P
20:24 < pingf1oyd> ayecee: are you upgrading ubuntu?
20:24 < ayecee> no, fresh install
20:24 < pingf1oyd> ayecee: live cd? do you need to press a button to restart after the crash? can't you just open another tty then?
20:25 < ayecee> the problem is that it restarts the installer and doesn't let me see the traceback
20:25 < ayecee> ah, this looks relevant, https://bugs.launchpad.net/subiquity/+bug/1767295
20:26 < ayecee> right down to the idrac
20:27 < aBound> Seems the log is in /var/log/installer from that link.
20:27 < aBound> Interesting that the files are Python. :D
20:28 < aBound> All related to snap it would seem.
20:29 < ayecee> i guess i'll use the iso linked there
20:29 < aBound> I seen that too.
20:30 < aBound> One person said it works for them but that's just one person. :P
20:30 < ayecee> two
20:30 < aBound> ayecee, At the top of the link it says "Fix committed" perhaps something got released?
20:30 < ayecee> fixed in git
20:31 < aBound> Ahh, more or less the waiting game. :P
20:31 < ayecee> would be the kind of thing that gets fix in the first point release, i imagine.
20:32 < EvilRoey> G33kGurl: o/
20:32 < EvilRoey> wow, so many of my fellow weasels here in #bash as well
20:32 < EvilRoey> tadaaa: hey there fellow ##vegan'er
20:32 < aBound> Eh, point release won't be till around July.
20:33 < ayecee> as is tradition
20:33 < aBound> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseSchedule
20:33 < ayecee> if this image works, doesn't really matter.
20:34 < aBound> True that.
20:35 < milp_2> i am planning to set up a server in a remote location with only wifi available. I plan to install 2 or more wifi adapters for failover/redundancy - how would i best accomplish a good failover/redundancy mechanism that is reliable?
20:36 < bls> wifi? reliable?
20:37 < jim> milp_2, what makes it important to set up a server in this particular location?
20:37 < bls> but probably a question more for #hardware or #networking. you'd probably want redundant APs on different subnets/freqs/channels
20:37 < milp_2> jim: surveillance and free power
20:37 < milp_2> its my workshop and i got free wifi and a fixed power bill
20:38 < jim> so the server is running cameras and such, for use in this location?
20:38 < milp_2> yeah, camera, mining, heating
20:38 < ciscon> if your only concern is an ap/adapter dropping out you can just use bonding
20:38 < milp_2> heating as in heating by placing a monstrous server in that workshop
20:39 < jim> ok, that satifies my curiousity :)
20:39 < autopsy> You curious cat.
20:39 < milp_2> heh, i just wish there could be a simple solution for reliable managing those wifi adapters, even if they should ever need like usb-level resetting
20:40 < jim> where's the wireless router located?
20:40 < milp_2> might aswell add some kind of cellular usb stick for emergencies
20:40 < milp_2> like two rooms to the left
20:40 < ciscon> or something wired :P
20:40 < bls> ^
20:40 < autopsy> Heh wired.
20:40 < milp_2> no chance in hell id get a cable through my landlords workshop lol
20:41 < ciscon> ethernet over power?
20:41 < aBound> Swoosh, I'm off. :P
20:41 < milp_2> might try, but its a really old house with bad wiring
20:41 < bls> hahah, so: how can I spend a bunch to make a fault tolerante/highly available setup to freeload?
20:41 < ciscon> that's usually okay, the adapter might die after a while though - still, it's a good backup, especially if the server supports ipmi, you'll always be able to fix it
20:41 < ciscon> hah
20:42 < jim> milp_2, maybe route the cable through connecting walls?
20:42 < milp_2> also as a halfway-ham op i have some concerns about general HF pollution by those devices
20:42 < milp_2> turning cables into potential antennas and such
20:42 < ciscon> what are you thinking it would interfere with?
20:42 < autopsy> ET Phone home.
20:42 < jim> do you run your ham rig in that space?
20:42 < milp_2> other ham ops have complained about interference in shortwave bands and such
20:42 < autopsy> RJ-11 land lines are antennas.
20:43 < ciscon> heh
20:43 < jim> ET eat hamz
20:43 < milp_2> jim: not at all, i mean generally speaking
20:43 < milp_2> but yeah thats an idea
20:43 < autopsy> I like hammz.
20:43 < ciscon> so your concern is that it would be a concern if circumstances were different?  heh
20:44 < autopsy> Hi jason85
20:44 < Siecje> What does sudo -u postgres do? Does it run the command as the postgres user and the group is set to whatever groups the postgres user is in?
20:44 < i-make-robots> i have a bash script that pipes a php to a file.  I also want to capture one value from that php script.  is there a way to pipe and also return a value to bash?
20:44 < milp_2> idk what id have to trade in with my landlord to get that through. free wifi cost me a very good bench vise
20:44 < bls> i-make-robots: php | tee file | another command
20:44 < ayecee> that's an expensive free
20:44 < i-make-robots> bls - so it pipes to two places at once?
20:44 < milp_2> ciscon: nah my concern is potentially spamming frequency bands in a residential area
20:44 < autopsy> Its totally unfree.
20:45 < Psi-Jack> Totally.
20:45 < bls> i-make-robots: the tee command does, in a way. it writes to file and stdout simultaneously
20:45 < ciscon> milp_2: i wouldn't worry about it, it's only going to be in that building
20:45 < jim> fixed cost?
20:45 < autopsy> Yeah localized radiatioon wont hurt.
20:45 < ayecee> unlimited
20:45 < ciscon> Siecje: man sudo (but to answer your question yes, it runs whatever you put after that as the postgres user)
20:45 < milp_2> might try that out then, ill have a look if there are any outlets vacant near the router
20:45 < i-make-robots> hrm.
20:46 < i-make-robots> i think i have to stop using the pipe.  it's lazy and blocks my ability to do other things.
20:46 < Psi-Jack> Do you really, i-make-robots?
20:46 < bls> yes, please lay off the pipe. it's not good for you
20:46 < milp_2> jim: yeah i pay way more than i use, because i only have that workshop for my own private vehicles and i sometimes dont go there for months
20:46 < ciscon> if you need the output from that command to do the next thing, you want to wait i-make-robots
20:46 < autopsy> Get off tha pipe!
20:47 < ayecee> guv'ment came and took mah baby!
20:47 < i-make-robots> i wrote my page as php.  then i piped it to html to update it only once a month (https://www.marginallyclever.com/other/netflix.html).  then I wanted to tweet updates.  the tweet should have the final profit.
20:47 < autopsy> No wai??!
20:47 < bls> non-dynamic PHP? heh
20:47 < i-make-robots> so my thought was return the final from php.
20:47 < ciscon> i-make-robots: just do caching in php instead
20:47 < autopsy> Oh its dynamic alright.
20:48 < jason85> autopsy, hi?
20:48 < i-make-robots> it's *sometimes* dynamic.  i failed to set up caching right and i got other shit to do.
20:48 < autopsy> jason85 come join us.
20:48 < jason85> who are you?
20:48 < i-make-robots> but thsi one bugs me, so.
20:48 < autopsy> jason85, I'm the Darth Vader.
20:49 < jason85> really?
20:49 < autopsy> Yes why would I lie?
20:49 < ayecee> profit
20:49 < Psi-Jack> autopsy: Why would you not?
20:49 < jason85> then I'm Obi-Wan
20:49 < autopsy> Yeah ok.
20:49 < i-make-robots> I'm not from any particular time, I'm speaks unusually loud duckman!
20:49 < bls> keep it on topic startrek nerds
20:50 < autopsy> Yeah Linux kernel goo.
20:50 < ciscon> i-make-robots: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5262857/5-minute-file-cache-in-php
20:51 < jim> I'm dewad, jim, but not as I know it... you see, I'm a doctor, not a pepper!
20:51 < ciscon> quite literally that example, it's very simple and works well
20:53 < ciscon> you'd want the actual logic in that else instead of the get remote file stuff- just ob_start/flush instead
20:54 < ciscon> just like this one: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27940333/php-ob-start-for-file-caching
20:55 < ciscon> then you can have it run through whatever php logic you want however that often when it's hit- and you can even leave the cronjob hitting it constantly locally if you want to make sure you get some email it sends out when it's regenerated
20:55 < zenix_2k2> i know this is a little bit off topic but is there any channel here that provides helps on how OS and computers work ? like what happens behind the scene of everything
20:56 < jenia_> hello everyon
20:56 < ciscon> zenix_2k2: just follow this down the rabbit hole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_architecture
20:56 < jenia_> what's the file called where you keep all your hostnames/ip combinations? For example, if I want to do `ssh 193.322.23.22`, but I want to give the IP a name
20:57 < ciscon>  /etc/hosts
20:57 < jenia_> thanks
20:57 < zenix_2k2> ciscon: like just that easy ? i mean i thought it would take more than just 1 link
20:57 < jenia_> no. there's another file in .ssh folder
20:57 < koala_man> you can also set ssh-specific names and aliases in .ssh/config
20:57 < jenia_> yes
20:57 < jenia_> thanks
20:57 < ciscon> zenix_2k2: that's the starting link, on wikipedia- you'll end up following thousands from there :)
20:58 < pingf1oyd> jim is known to eat the fishes whole without peeling them first. I find that appealing.
20:59 < zenix_2k2> ok then, thk for that advise
21:00 < pingf1oyd> Psi-Jack on the other hand always peels his food, even if it's raw dog or a goo of mashed bottles.
21:00  * Psi-Jack blinks.
21:01 < ayecee> what a unique perspective
21:05 < Psi-Jack> Been known for many things.. But never.... that. LOL
21:06 < Psi-Jack> But then again... That's a pingfloyd impersonator. :p
21:11 < ayecee> ah
21:15 < Psi-Jack> Didn't notice, ayecee ? ;)
21:17 < ayecee> didn't check
21:17 < Shakka_47> hi there
21:24 < jim> hi Shakka_47
21:26 < michael2> does anyone know how - on a bootable USB - the kernel is started so that it starts the debian installer (and not pid 1 like it usually would)
21:26 < bls> michael2: you can give the kernel the first command it should run (usually /sbin/init) on the kernel command line
21:27 < michael2> do you just pass it as a direct argument?
21:27 < bls> michael2: yes
21:28 < bls> you'll often see people doing rescue by running `vmlinuz...init=bash`
21:28 < michael2> oh thats what i meant - you need to prefix the pid 1 process with "init" then?
21:29 < michael2> or "init=..."
21:29 < bls> right
21:29 < pingf1oyd> ayecee: lmao, I like how you call the lunacy a "unique perspective". Got me laughing
21:30 < michael2> bls: thanks, ill give it a go
21:32 < Shakka_47> any RHCSA info ?
21:32 < Shakka_47> updated
21:32 < Shakka_47> ?
21:33 < ayecee> i think it's trying to communicate!
21:33 < ayecee> what is it? is timmy in the well again?
21:45 < pingf1oyd> ayecee: a wise greek monk once asked his student, would you rather trust a fish or a bird? The student replied, I would listen to what they both had to say and then make up my mind. The master replied, a quiet fish cannot lie but a singing bird can despite its appeal and beauty deceive you. The lesson learned is to trust a silent fish more than a singing bird.
21:46 < pingf1oyd> I got an F for that one for bad grammar and for missing the point of the writing exercise.
21:47 < qrvpzvb> benefits of LVM ? (compared to normal partitions)
21:48 < Shakka_47> more scalability i guess
21:49 < avenger> googling "benefits of lvm" has a ton of info... not being lazy (maybe a little lazy) but the write-ups are comprehensive and writing that much would be flooding here
21:50 < Shakka_47> :')
21:50 < pingf1oyd> qrvpzvb: main is scalability.
21:50 < Shakka_47> in resume... it those
21:51 < qrvpzvb> like, the fact that I can add drives etc?
21:53 < ciscon> it just makes it much easier to throw physical things (like drives/partitions) at, or remove them from, logical things (like logical volumes) without adding too much overhead (but overhead nonetheless)
21:57 < Dagmar> It makes partitioning as the primary method of slicing disks obsolete
21:58 < pingf1oyd> qrvpzvb: you can add drives without LVM, but LVM makes it possible to add new (or change) drives and make them belong to the same (virtual) volume
21:58 < hehehe> hi folks, can someone here try and see if lycamobile.co.uk is loading
21:58 < hehehe> its down for me for some reason
21:58 < Dagmar> There are websites for that
21:58 < hehehe> website said it is up
21:58 < Dagmar> Then it's up
21:58 < hehehe> I am using vpn still down for me
21:58 < hehehe> how come?
21:59 < pingf1oyd> hehehe: always have a tor browser installed. torproject.org and get one, that's a good way to view things from "the outside"
21:59 < Dagmar> They hired amateurs.
21:59 < hehehe> Dagmar: who they?
21:59 < Dagmar> The site you're asking about
21:59 < hehehe> pingf1oyd: can you access it?
21:59 < Shakka_47> some prxy tho
22:00 < hehehe> it responds to ping
22:00 < avenger> i can't access it
22:00 < hehehe> hmmm
22:00 < Shakka_47> dns
22:01 < hehehe> dns what?
22:01 < hehehe> seems they are dropping http packages
22:01 < hehehe> bizzare biz
22:03 < avenger> since ##linux is now a downforeveryoneorjustme help site, according to isitdown it's down... and i've run out of care heh
22:03 < hehehe> :P
22:03 < hehehe> oki
22:03 < Shakka_47> down
22:04 < autopsy> Its down its down. Down with a clown.
22:04 < pingf1oyd> hehehe: lycamobile.us works. this is ##linux though
22:05 < avenger> 'merica
22:06 < hehehe> hehe
22:17 < zarzar> anyone over here use dbus?
22:18 < zarzar> i'm stuck on this issue: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50496755/process-with-a-dbus-signal-filter-no-longer-receives-signal
22:18 < raynold> ahh it's a wonderful day
22:21 < sn00bie> hi, i want to use the overlayds script from https://gist.github.com/mutability/6cc944bde1cf4f61908e316befd42bc4 and the rootfs is ro. my question is it possible with rootfs and overlays that the rootfs is ro and a subfolder on rootfs is rw?
22:22 < sn00bie> thanks for the help
22:25 < esselfe> sn00bie: I used to mount my filesystems from a read-only liveUSB with tmpfs (/tmp)
22:26 < esselfe> sn00bie: that subfolder you're talking about should be another filesystem? it should work fine
22:26 < esselfe> if it's on the same fs you can't
22:26 < sn00bie> esselfe: thanks for the answer, no its on an ssd, i want to protect the filesystem, pc power off at anytime.
22:27 < badsekt0r> if you have 8 or 16 gb of RAM, and you run games on WINE, does it mean that you can only make us of 4 gb of your RAM?
22:28 < ayecee> no
22:31 < sn00bie> i cant mount an rw folder on rootfs is the rootfs ro right?
22:31 < esselfe> yes
22:32 < Tech_8> hi
22:34 < Shakka_47> any doc about sticky bit
22:34 < Tech_8> ?
22:34 < Shakka_47> need make some
22:35 < Dagmar> Doubt it
22:36 < lnnb> grep --color -ri 'sticky.*bit' /usr/share/man/
22:37 < sn00bie> k, the solution is an 2nd partition with rw
22:39 < esselfe> hehe .*sticky.* in /usr/share/doc works here (glibc changelog)
22:41 < lnnb> hmmm i don't have that *sad face*
22:45 < felix_vs> what is a good alternative to OneNote?
22:46 < qman__> vim
22:46 < xamithan> dokuwiki
22:48 < azarus> a pen and paper, or vi
22:48 < markasoftware> maybe org mode?
22:49 < qrvpzvb> how is btrfs this days?
22:56 < bls> qrvpzvb: same as it's always been. its fans say it's production ready, everyone else seems to have given up on it and switched to something else
23:08 < silva> hello, a very simple question. I have a folder that belongs to user1:group1 and I want to share it with a user2. So What I did was created a group2 and added user1 and user2 to that group, and then, changed the group of the directory to group2. But when user2 wants to copy a file into that dir a permission error appears: cannot create regular file ‘dir/file’: Permission denied. What I'm doing wrong?
23:09 < esselfe> silva: you may need to logout and relogin for the changes to take effect
23:12 < silva> esselfe: tried that and had the same result
23:13 < esselfe> silva: does the directory have group write permission?
23:14 < silva> esselfe: drwxr-xr-x
23:14 < esselfe> then chmod g+w dirname
23:14 < esselfe> or chmod 775 dirname
23:16 < silva> esselfe: what was it! thanks :) I'm just learning linux
23:17 < Pazooza> I remember when you upgraded the kernel in SuSE it could move to the new kernel without rebooting. What happened to that? Why didn't other distros pick this up?
23:18 < Dagmar> Because that's a very elaborate dance with a lot of caveats to perform for people who don't understand the complexity, just so they can save three minutes a month
23:18 < ciscon> you can still do it if you want
23:19 < ciscon> but yeah ^
23:19 < Dagmar> Rather a lot has to be done both before and after that, and it's basically just not worth the trouble
23:19 < Dagmar> It's a "bar trick" basically
23:20 < Pazooza> A bar trick?
23:20 < Dagmar> Yes, like betting someone you can shove $20 up your nose for the next round.
23:20 < ciscon> if the changes are significant enough that you'd actually want to do that, you really want to reload the kernel completely- and if it's a box that "can't be down", you almost certainly have a failover setup anyway
23:20 < pankaj> Is their any tutorial on how to deal with the program that you build from source? I want to know about how to delete the application, configure with help of files installed and what are important directories.
23:20 < Dagmar> "just because you can, doesn't mean you should"
23:21 < Dagmar> pankaj: Source tarballs usually come with a README or INSTALL file that explains the bulk of what needs to happen at compile time
23:21 < Dagmar> pankaj: Rather a lot of it comes down to information you should already know about the filesystem hierarchy on your machine
23:22 < Dagmar> pankaj: Read `man hier`.  Get familiar enough with it that you feel like you understand how it came out and can remember the names of most of the directories (you can always pull it up again later)
23:22 < Dagmar> pankaj: At minimum you're generally going to have to specify at least a few bits of that information to the source package's configuration script
23:23 < pankaj> Dagmar: Yes, I know about the filesystem and partitions. I am using archlinux and in some days will be dealing with lfs.
23:23 < Dagmar> You might want to skip ahead to doing LFS _now_ then
23:24 < Dagmar> For sure you will get a _broad_ perspective of the type of buils harnesses out there and what needs to be specified to them
23:24 < sphrak> Whats the difference between chmod 600 and chmod 2600?
23:24 < Dagmar> s/buils/build/
23:24 < Dagmar> sphrak: THe latter is useless
23:24 < sphrak> Dagmar: hmm okey, but why do people write that sometimes?
23:25 < Dagmar> sphrak: If they're writing "chmod 2600" they're probably pretty high
23:25 < koala_man> sphrak: it's the setgid bit
23:25 < Dagmar> sphrak: You know how in English, some words have letters that are "silent"?
23:26 < sphrak> Dagmar: yeah?
23:26 < sphrak> koala_man: ah I see
23:26 < Dagmar> sphrak: When someone's passing a numeric set of permissions to chmod, there's pretty much _always_ a fourth digit, it's just assumed to be zero
23:26 < Dagmar> i.e., "the 0 is silent"
23:26 < badsekt0r> if you have 8 or 16 gb of RAM, and you run games on WINE, does it mean that you can only make us of 4 gb of your RAM?
23:27 < Dagmar> badsekt0r: No
23:27 < sphrak> Dagmar: ah right, but if its non zero it is a setgid bit as koala_man said?
23:27 < badsekt0r> Dagmar, how come?
23:27 < badsekt0r> Dagmar, WINE is 32 bit
23:28 < Dagmar> sphrak: So that first chmod is going to be 0600 even if it was typed as 600.  The fourth (leftmost) digit is where something called "sticky bits" live
23:28 < ciscon> sphrak: if set on an executable it will run as the owner's group as opposed to the user running it- if it's set on a directory, new files created there will be owned by the directory's group
23:28 < koala_man> sphrak: I think Dagmar's belaboured point is that the rest of the mode means the setgid bit has little effect (which is true, but it's not meaningless)
23:28 < Dagmar> sphrak: Sticky bits are sort of like crude hacks that make the system treat the files/directories they're on in special way
23:29 < Dagmar> sphrak: Just like the other three digits, it's an octal made from three binary bits, so 4 + 2 + 1 would be all on (7), and they apply to the user, group, and other slots
23:30 < sphrak> ahh okay, I see.. Ive often seen it on config files for dockerfiles..
23:30 < Dagmar> sphrak: 4555 would apply owner-sticky, which is (by example) generally only of interest to binaries, and makes a binary on Linux be setuid.  A setuid binary's "crude hack" is that when it's run, instead of it being run as the calling user, it's run as the uid who _owns the file_
23:31 < Dagmar> It's pretty much meaningless on directories
23:31 < koala_man> on directories, it makes newly created files owned by the directory's group
23:31 < Dagmar> However, the group sticky (2) is useful on directories.  It'll make all files created in that directory belong to the same _group_ as the directory
23:31 < koala_man> setgid, that is
23:32 < Dagmar> setgid can also be applied to binaries
23:32 < sphrak> Dagmar: thats a great explanation, thanks alot. I think I get it now :o)
23:32 < Dagmar> There's no um... parity (I guess) to this, but the last bit, the "other" sticky also affects directories and makes them "temp-sticky"
23:33 < Dagmar> You'll see it on ls -ald /tmp.  Notice the "t" at the end
23:33 < sphrak> Dagmar: you are right, I can see that now
23:33 < Dagmar> tmp-sticky is the sneaky one that works somewhat differently depending on what variant of Unix you're using, but here it makes it so users can't overwrite each other's files in /tmp
23:34 < Dagmar> (IIRC)
23:34 < Dagmar> Basically, it solves some problems with publicly-shared directory use being unsafe that we fixed 20 years ago
23:35 < Dagmar> It should be explained in more detail in the chmod man page under the "RESTRICTED DELETION FLAG OR STICKY BIT" section
23:35 < ayecee> can't delete file unless you own it, that's tmp-sticky
23:36 < Dagmar> ayecee: I work with too many unixes
23:36 < Dagmar> 8sigh8
23:36 < ayecee> a terrible burden
23:36 < Dagmar> Dude it seriously gets confusing sometimes
23:36 < ayecee> no doubt
23:36 < Dagmar> Also I *hate* the idea that anything in my head from AIX might "bleed over" into a less abominable Unix
23:37 < Dagmar> The only good thing there is smitty, and that's somewhat debatable
23:39 < jelly> qrvpzvb, you can do almost any lvm manipulation online without reboot; you can't do every partition manipulation without reboot on linux
23:40 < Dagmar> Some things with LVM need to be unmounted and that's about as far as it goes
23:40 < jelly> Dagmar, that's almost never lvm's fault but specific filesystem
23:40 < Dagmar> It's still a relevant caveat
23:41 < jelly> qrvpzvb, so it reduces downtime; so it enables doing otherwise problematic things during work hours
23:42 < Dagmar> Partitions are obsolete and have _many_ limitations.  LVM is basically future-proof until we start using quantum cowrie storage
23:42 < qrvpzvb> no, never!
23:42 < qrvpzvb> my drives aren't even on GPT yet!
23:42 < Dagmar> With LVM the main reason to even bother with making any partitions anymore is so that less enlightened operating systems don't get any bright ideas about the disks being completely unused
23:44 < jelly> "oh hey, found an empty disk, do you want to format it?  do you now?  do you?  [y/Y]"
23:44 < Dagmar> Yep
23:44 < qrvpzvb> it does make for a more complex system though
23:44 < telmich> lvm almost never makes sense
23:44 < Dagmar> The tradeoff is awesomeness
23:45 < Dagmar> I can grow a filesystem across multiple disks with one command that takes a few seconds to complete
23:45 < jelly> telmich, if you like downtime and night work, then it doesn't
23:45 < telmich> negative
23:45 < bls> "my use case is the only use case. all others are bunk"
23:46 < koala_man> telmich: why not?
23:46 < Dagmar> You won't be doing enterprise-level work without using LVM
23:46 < telmich> And FS across disks does not sound great either, that's what raid is being made for
23:46 < qrvpzvb> wat
23:46 < jelly> Dagmar, well... you might use equivalent or better options :-)
23:46 < bls> RAID has snapshots and offline mirroring?
23:46  * bls leaves his cave
23:46 < telmich> Dagmar: in exactly that scenario lvm is not helpful, as it adds complexity and indirection
23:46 < Dagmar> In what scenario?
23:47 < Dagmar> I have yet to see a RAID card that can invoke snapshots
23:47 < telmich> Dagmar: snapshots != spanning devices
23:47 < jelly> and storage-side snapshots typically require specific tools and weird APIs that are MORE complex than linux lvm
23:48 < telmich> But if you are into something that mixes all up, ZFS is your friend
23:48 < Dagmar> ...and you're talking about "complexity" in comparison to an opposing system that may sometimes involve both MBR and GPT _and that these can have different information in them?_
23:48 < telmich> Dagmar: to be honest, I agree that MBR sucks. GPT OTOH is pretty neat
23:48 < Dagmar> LVM replaces partitions.
23:49 < Dagmar> Talking about ZFS is very apples:oranges
23:49 < jelly> well zfs replaces all of lvm and raid and some more
23:49 < telmich> Yep, both fruits
23:49 < telmich> And lvm does not replace partitions. Neither for BIOS nor UEFI nor openfirmware systems
23:50 < phogg> the problem with zfs is it bypasses the usual Linux block device stack, helping no one. btrfs has most of the same issue.
23:50 < telmich> The only case might be network boot, but even then - what's really the real world advantage of LVM?
23:50 < phogg> telmich: it certainly can. You can add the whole disk as a pv
23:50 < jelly> telmich, you don't need partitions at all with lvm.
23:50  * Acheron waveS bye to KDE *
23:50 < telmich> jelly: so where do you install the bootloader to?
23:50 < Dagmar> The boot sector
23:50 < Dagmar> Same place it's always been stored
23:51 < phogg> I normally slice disks into partition chunks of conveniently round sizes before making PVs, but you don't need to do that
23:51 < jelly> telmich, machines at work all have a tiny disk for just /boot, and everything else on unpartitioned lvm pv
23:51 < telmich> jelly: there you go....
23:51 < Dagmar> A separate partition for /boot is not a requirement, it's jsut a conveniences
23:52 < bls> is this the wookie defense in action?
23:52 < phogg> telmich: LVM lets you reallocate where your disk space goes without having to fiddle with physical device boundaries.'
23:52 < phogg> Dagmar: even for EFI?
23:52 < jelly> telmich, okay, s/with lvm/for lvm/
23:52 < telmich> I mean seriously guys, what kind of problems have you solved using LVM in real world? Not fictional "i could resize part x", but "I did y that was only (easily) possible due to LVM"?
23:52 < Dagmar> phogg: EFI ain't my problem
23:52 < phogg> telmich: I use LVM on top of raid1 on every system I own, except where it's LVM on top of raid5.
23:52  * jelly will not repeat himself
23:52 < qrvpzvb> So, say I make an mdadm array, RAID1 with 2 disks.  Later I get 2 more disks, how would I add them to the existing filesystem?
23:52 < RayTracer> telmich: enlarging / on the fly
23:52 < telmich> phogg: you write past physical boundaries? THAT is pretty cool!
23:53 < bls> block level snapshots?
23:53 < phogg> telmich: I don't write past them, I don't need to respect partition alignment at an offset on the disk.
23:53 < telmich> RayTracer: hmm, that is actually a good point. Even though, the question than is, why did you not use the space for / in the first place?
23:54 < Dagmar> qrvpzvb: Assuming hardware RAID, you'd go ahead and stripe/mirror those two new disks together, bless the combined device as a pv, and do the necessary from there
23:54 < qrvpzvb> Dagmar: I did specify mdadm
23:54 < Dagmar> ...or failing that you could still mdadm them together and then straight to pv creation time
23:54 < jelly> Dagmar, or grow an existing array and tell the kernel to look up its new size
23:54 < telmich> phogg: why would you care about that before? i.e. sizes do matter and where they are don't really, even with partitions
23:54 < qrvpzvb> is there a way to do that without lvm?
23:54 < Dagmar> jelly: The question as posed left it up in the air about precisely how the two new disks would be added
23:55 < jelly> nod
23:55 < qman__> Yes
23:55 < phogg> telmich: Here's my scenario: I have two 1TiB disk in raid1, I carve that 1T into PVs and make a big fat data VG, then create an LV for /home and one for /var and one for /usr and one for /tmp. Later I change one of the disks to 2TiB and sync. Later I change the other disk to 2TiB and sync. Then I expand the PVs . Now I can choose which LV needs to get bigger based on my current user and grow it. How do you do *that* without LVM?
23:55 < jelly> but adding a new pv can be avoided
23:55 < qman__> You add the disks to the array then grow your filesystem
23:55 < qrvpzvb> is there a way convert a level=1 mdadm to level=10 ?
23:55 < Dagmar> Painfully
23:55 < qrvpzvb> and then add the drives to the preexisting array
23:55 < jelly> qrvpzvb, I think yes, but ask in #linux-raid
23:55 < phogg> telmich: with real disk partitions I need to *physically move partition boundaries* in order to grow e.g. the root fs over where the /usr fs used to be. Moving is hard.
23:56 < Dagmar> If you want a complete answer, you need to specify more than just "we added two more disks"
23:56 < jelly> restriping is seldom fun
23:56 < telmich> phogg: very easy. get rid of your broken partition scheme. Create / and swap. And don't tell me that your users fill up your /, as you should monitor disk space on all critical systems anyway.
23:56 < qman__> The way I know is to create a new raid 10 array with two missing disks, migrate data, then add fhe old disks to the new array
23:57 < jelly> telmich, I got rid of broken partition scheme by not putting filesystems on partitions
23:57 < Dagmar> telemich: NO.  Monitoring without restriction is stupid
23:57 < bls> this is sounding like: all I care about are desktop/home users and everything else that I don't understand is dumb
23:57 < phogg> telmich: Your solution is "Do not use multiple partitions." If you don't use multiple partitions you do not need most of what LVM does, although you can still benefit from e.g. snapshotting.
23:57 < jelly> they're on lvm
23:57 < telmich> The point RayTracer had, resizing / in a running system with hot swapping disks, might though be a real case for LVM, though. I.e. when you are able to physically change the underlying storage carefully
23:57 < RayTracer> telmich: the environment is a standard autodeployment that just makes 20g / and 4g swap on whatever the disk size is. so you can easily make additional lvm lv (with different filesystems as well) to fit the individual needs.
23:57 < Dagmar> Monitoring to know when a user fills / and consquently buggers the machine up is a fairly freakin' worthless approach
23:57 < phogg> telmich: Given that I **WANT** to have multiple "disks" under my different mountpoints a solution of "Don't" is a non-solution and not applicable to this discussion. LVM lets you flex your disk space into the partition that needs it when it needs it. If you don't need to do that, then you don't need to do that.
23:58 < phogg> telmich: *you asked*, remember
23:58 < Dagmar> "That which we cannot prevent we must detect" is written with "prevent" *first* for good goddamn reason
23:58 < bls> I can take a single technology and use it to build a desktop system, a server, a NAS, a SAN, *and* it's not tied to a single proprietary tool
23:58 < mices> what happens if i'm recording the screen and the screensaver comes on the recording keeps recording the window or the screen saver shows in the recording?
23:58 < Dagmar> bls++ again with the mention of proprietary tools
23:58 < telmich> Dagmar: You cannot prevent root processes to fill up your disk, you need to monitor it anyway.
23:58 < phogg> Dagmar: for me it's /tmp and /var which need to be separate, both from each other and from /usr!
23:59 < phogg> telmich: with one big / you cannot prevent *USER* processes from filling up the disk.
23:59 < Dagmar> Ther'es nothing so awesome as replacing a hardware RAID card with a different model and having it go "Wow, you've given me five new blank disks?  THanks!"
23:59 < telmich> phogg: technically seen, that is not true. That is exactly what quotas are made for
23:59 < phogg> telmich: What is your problem here or are you just here to try to convince the world that LVM is pointless?
23:59 < Dagmar> telemich: Actually, I can, for the same reasons I can avoid peeing all over myself while I'm sitting at this workstation
--- Log closed Thu May 24 00:00:12 2018