--- Log opened Sun May 27 00:00:31 2018
--- Day changed Sun May 27 2018
00:00 < yakiza> HEllo guys to make an unattended linux install i am assuming i have to configure the files in /BOOT directory correct? please do not tell me exactly what file i want to try and figure it out by my self
00:00 < yakiza> i just want to know if i am in right direction
00:07 < rascul> yakiza looks up the docs for your particular distro, the major ones tend to go into some amount of detail for unattended installs
00:10 < yakiza> rascul:  slackware :P
00:11 < dongbag> Hey I fucked up and I over-wrote readlink to point to busybox readlink
00:11 < dongbag> and now nothing can be installed because everything calls read-link
00:11 < dongbag> or uninstalled
00:11 < dongbag> ...
00:12 < dongbag> how can I fix this?
00:12 < rascul> yakiza you might try ##slackware
00:12 < rascul> dongbag boot a live distro and fix it offline
00:14 < dongbag> is there something simpler I cna do
00:14 < rascul> if the tools you need require readlink, and you have a broken readlink, not really
00:14 < triceratux> dongbag: restore at once from your timely & redundant backups
00:16 < dongbag> can't I build a new coreutils
00:16 < dongbag> and just point readlink to there
00:16 < dongbag> wait fuck the build scripts call that link
00:18 < triceratux> dongbag: just get the deb with the binary from the web & extract it from there & replace your readlink with it long enough to reinstall nonhosed coreutils
00:19 < dongbag> so... like boot off a live-cd and copy paste it to somewhre in my /bin folder
00:21 < triceratux> dongbag: -rwxr-xr-x 1 lubuntu lubuntu 43744 Oct  2  2017 readlink http://yandex-asia.archive.parrotsec.org/debian/pool/main/c/coreutils/coreutils_8.28-1_amd64.deb
00:21 < triceratux> all youll need is a browser & an ar command
00:22 < dongbag> I'm sorry I'm retarted, what exactly is that?
00:26 < faLUCE> hello. Is there an alternative to youtube-dl and streamlink?
00:27 < triceratux> dongbag: its a coreutils deb on the web with the readlink binary in it. its one fast way to get it back without having to boot a rescue session, which is always easiest
00:27 < voodoofox> Hello. Im quite new to this whole Ubuntu but steadily getting a grasp. I need help, involving Kdenlive. It does not see my mp4 file when opening a new project. please help
00:27 < dongbag> It's for debian though? I'm on Ubunto
00:28 < phogg> faLUCE: in what sense? Those do different things and have a variety of purposes
00:28 < dongbag> I think I'll boot a rescue session
00:29 < dongbag> basically just copy paste the readlink binary and save it somewhere and replace mine right?
00:29 < dongbag> thanks for the help btw, new to this shit lol
00:29 < phogg> dongbag: you can likely extract the .deb and run the binary anyway as long as the ABI is compatible with any runtime linking libs
00:29 < triceratux> dongbag: https://ru.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/c/coreutils/coreutils_8.26-3ubuntu4_amd64.deb
00:29 < phogg> or that
00:29 < Kharma> dongbag: Ubuntu and Debian one and the same really.  Both run .deb
00:30 < revel> They don't "run" .deb files.
00:30 < phogg> Kharma: he is rightly concerned because packages are not necessarily compatible between the two
00:30 < phogg> sometimes they are, often they aren't
00:30 < dongbag> Oi, I see
00:30 < Kharma> phogg:  Generally though if something is for Debian it's usually an Ubuntu vrsion can be found :)
00:30 < phogg> same package format is not the same as having the same dependency chains
00:31 < triceratux> dongbag: these are suggestions only. if you do it that way clean up the mess afterwards. thats why a recovery session is generally tidier
00:31 < phogg> Kharma: hence triceratux's second link
00:33 < voodoofox> Guys help please
00:33 < dongbag> In a recovery session, what would my goal be?
00:35 < mouses> voodoofox: Are you familiar with the software?  Assuming you are trying to import some video into a clip?
00:35 < mouses> voodoofox: assuming yes, you just start a new project and then click the 'add clip' button - it's to the right of 'project tree'
00:36 < voodoofox> have done those steps. My mp4file exists in my root folder in Ubuntu. When opening through Kdenlive it is missing
00:37 < phogg> voodoofox: and did you try adding it as a clip as mouses described?
00:37 < voodoofox> Have done research but all i get are older versions of codec that needed for Ubuntu.
00:37 < mouses> voodoofox: you can't just 'open a video' file that way
00:37 < mouses> kdenlive requires a project file, and then you import the video clip into it
00:38 < mouses> voodoofox: think of the 'new project' as a blank container where you video is imported into - the project file determines how it is handled and tracks your edits
00:39 < mouses> voodoofox: the only 'codecs' you should need = ffmpeg
00:39 < mouses> voodoofox: after creating a new project, you'll do this: http://www.linuceum.com/Topic/Images/invisible.png
00:40 < mouses> oh whoops
00:40 < mouses> moment
00:40 < voodoofox> I used Kazam to record my screen. then saved in the video file
00:40 < voodoofox> I have followed all the steps to how to open through a new project
00:40 < mouses> okay so let's make sure we are on the same page here voodoofox
00:40 < mouses> 1)  Open kdenlive
00:41 < voodoofox> Doe
00:41 < mouses> 2) select 'new project'
00:41 < voodoofox> Done
00:41 < voodoofox> Done
00:41 < mouses> step 3) click the add clip button (to the right of project tree)
00:43 < triceratux> dongbag: youd boot into a liveiso which is the same version as the broken system & has a ~44K /bin/readlink available. then youd mount the filesystem with the broken /bin/readlink & see if replacing it with this one fixes it
00:43 < voodoofox> Im not sure if  i have it. does it come under any other name?
00:43 < voodoofox> Im using Kdenlive Version 17.12.3
00:44 < voodoofox> MLT version 6.6.0 with FFmpeg libraries
00:44 < mouses> voodoofox: https://docs.kde.org/trunk5/en/kdemultimedia/kdenlive/Kdenlive_Quickstart-Mainwindow.png
00:44 < Azrael_-> hi
00:44 < mouses> see the button to the right of project tree, voodoofox ?
00:45 < triceratux> dongbag: not that complicated but you broke it to begin with. always keep a local backup copy of critical binaries if youre planning on replacing them with symlinks to busybox rofl
00:46 < mouses> voodoofox: the icon of a film strip with a green +
00:46 < mouses> voodoofox: click that, and that will allow you to import your video clip into the project
00:47 < voodoofox> empty
00:47 < mouses> voodoofox: remember, you can't just 'open a video file' - you have to add a clip to the current project.
00:48 < mouses> not sure what you mean by 'empty'
00:48 < mouses> can you take a screencapture?
00:48 < voodoofox> how do i upload on here
00:48 < voodoofox> ?
00:49 < mouses> voodoofox: I'd personally just upload it to, as an example, https://imgtc.com/
00:49 < mouses> and then just share the link, but check your screen capture first and make sure it's not showing any personal information or private things
00:50 < mouses> voodoofox: after you upload the image you can copy the URL it gives you and paste it here
00:51 < Azrael_-> currently i'm trying to set up bacula but in the example config files there is no Storage-section in the director config file. is this a valid configuration or do i miss something?
00:51 < voodoofox> sorrytaing some time
00:51 < voodoofox> taking
00:51 < mouses> voodoofox: no rush!
00:55 < phogg> Anyone know a way to get something like the output of ldd (paths to dependent .so files) in an easier to parse format? My best idea so far is: libs=() ; while read _ _ lib _ ; do [[ -z $lib ]] && continue ; libs+=("$lib") ; done < <(ldd /path/to/bin)
00:55 < phogg> which is pretty eww
00:55 < voodoofox> https://i.imgtc.com/ncdc3q7.png
00:57 < mouses> voodoofox: odd, image has been deleted.  Upload it to imgur.com please?
00:57 < kurahaupo_> phogg: other than resorting to sed or awk or cut, that's probably what I'd do.
00:57 < mouses> oh wait I got it
00:57 < kurahaupo_> Ohno, not imgur
00:57 < mouses> right, you're on the right track voodoofox
00:57 < mouses> you need to click add clip
00:57 < mouses> that will open a dialogue box
00:57 < phogg> kurahaupo_: I'm sure it is, unless there's a better tool for this I don't know about
00:58 < mouses> in that box, navigate to where ever your .mp4 video is stored
00:58 < phogg> kurahaupo_: and of course I was trying to avoid the extra cost of non-builtins
01:00 < kerframil> phogg: scanelf from pax-utils is something that would likely interest you
01:00 < voodoofox> -.- I found it. after 6hours. Thank you
01:00 < kerframil> especially as it affords precise control over the output
01:00 < voodoofox> christ
01:00 < phogg> kerframil: I was indeed unaware of this tool.
01:01 < mouses> voodoofox: lol no problem, glad to help out.  Good luck!
01:01 < voodoofox> You too dude
01:02 < mouses> voodoofox: bookmark this: https://docs.kde.org/trunk5/en/kdemultimedia/kdenlive/
01:02 < mouses> should help you out while you get used to the software.
01:04 < noodlepie> Debian and Gentoo here
01:05 < noodlepie> I got my NoIP dyndns working on my router
01:05 < noodlepie> using dynu.com didn't work
01:09 < phogg> kerframil: Nice, thanks for the hint. Now I can use this: IFS=, read -a libs < <(scanelf /bin/ls --use-ldpath  -BF '%f,%n')
01:10 < phogg> kerframil: the only down side being that it doesn't seem to let me not output the input file name, so I have to use "${libs[@]:1}" later. Small price to pay.
01:11 < kerframil> phogg: yes, indeed
01:14 < domhnall>   /wc
01:16 < Mekely> !
01:16 < solidfox> Mekely, :D
01:16 < Mekely> solidfox: !
01:16 < solidfox> Mekely, nice \x21
01:16 < solidfox> to you too
01:17 < solidfox> Mekely, what distro do you use
01:17 < Mekely> arch
01:17 < Mekely> arch is bea
01:17 < solidfox> ah. I prefer ubuntu
01:17 < solidfox> so I can be spied on and hacked
01:17 < Mekely> nice
01:17 < Mekely> arch is still bea
01:18 < solidfox> jk about the reasons
01:18 < solidfox> but seriously do use ubuntu
01:18 < solidfox> lol
01:18 < solidfox> Mekely, gentoo is better
01:18 < solidfox> than arch
01:18 < morf> you mean do NOT use
01:18 < morf> right? :)
01:18 < solidfox> morf, I seriously do positively use ubuntu
01:18 < solidfox> alot
01:19 < barteks2x> I used tc to add filter (trying to limit network speed), it added successfully but now I want to modify it, but no matter what I try to do with it, I get RTNETLINK answers: Operation not supported   We have an error talking to the kernel. And the filter doesn't show up with tc filter show
01:19 < solidfox> morf, why, what do you use
01:19 < barteks2x> what am I missing?
01:20 < Mekely> arch is bea
01:20 < solidfox> Mekely, you really like arch
01:20 < solidfox> a lot
01:20 < solidfox> that's fine :)
01:21 < barteks2x> Or is there at least any way to make the tc errors a bit more specific?
01:21 < Acheron> solidfox, what CD on Unbuntu?
01:22 < solidfox> Acheron, ubuntu 7.04 arm
01:22 < solidfox> Acheron, as root
01:22 < Acheron> ahh
01:23 < solidfox> Acheron, gotta overflow and execute on that stack ya know what I mean
01:23 < solidfox> jk
01:23 < solidfox> why is everyone asking personal questions and sending me links :L
01:23 < solidfox> it's like I'm a target for hacking, even though I don't own any bitcoin
01:24 < solidfox> unless I'm just being paranoid
01:24 < solidfox> Acheron, I use freebsd
01:26 < solidfox> I'm going to watch alphago match 3 vs lee sedol now
01:42 < Ratman5005> Following this guide (https://docs.fedoraproject.org/quick-docs/en-US/getting-started-with-virtualization.html but when I lsmod | grep kvm there isn't a listing for _intel. Suggestions?
01:43 < NewbProgrammer10> Is there a reliable tutorial out there on how to write init scripts for OpenRC?
01:46 < Dan39> Ratman5005: what CPU do you have?
01:46 < Dan39> NewbProgrammer10: look at existing init scripts?
01:47 < Ratman5005> Dan39 Actually just figured it out... (FACEPALM) - Needed to turn on Virtualization in BIOS.
01:47 < Ratman5005> Dan39 Thank you for responding.
01:48 < Dan39> haha
01:48 < Dan39> who shut it off? -_- it's usually enabled by default on most BIOSes ive seen
01:48 < Dan39> and if it is disabled you also usually get an error message during boot about it
01:49 < Dan39> always annoyed me on systems i disabled it on. like.. its not an error! i decided to turn it off!
01:50 < Ratman5005> Dan39 Not sure why it was off...
01:51 < iflema> why does it have a off...
01:52 < storge> i'm currently using pmount and that's mostly good enough, but there are moments when i want automount. but i don't want gvfs or basically anything dependent on systemd. options?
01:52 < Dan39> storge: automount?
01:53 < storge> for hot plugged usb devices, i should have said
01:53  * Dan39 googles
01:53  * iflema udev
01:53 < Dan39> does udev depend on systemd now? i think theres a systemd-free fork
01:54 < iflema> oh jesus
01:54 < iflema> im out
01:54 < storge> yeah i might go devuan finally. i'm sick of how many things are rolled with systemd deps in debian
01:54 < Dan39> iflema: actually i think systemd has kind of... absorbed udev
01:54 < storge> any *other* options?
01:55 < Dan39> storge: usbmount provided?
01:55 < storge> it has. that's how cancer works. it eats organs.
01:58 < storge> hmm, udiskie
02:01 < johnsmith92> Hello, I have a question regarding sbrk, what should happen if I do sbrk(100), sbrk(-200) and sbrk(0) assuming the heap is empty?
02:14 < Loshki> johnsmith92: first guess: sbrk(100) succeeds, sbrk(-200) fails, and you end up with a dataspace 100 bytes larger
02:15 < johnsmith92> Loshki: So you end up having 100 bytes reserved in the heap right? (assuming the system doesn't reserve more for optimizing)
02:15 < Dan39> storge: or kludge your own automounter
02:16 < Dan39> would be easier than the horrible config syntax of something like udev :P
02:19 < Loshki> johnsmith92: that's the idea. I seem to recall something about stack and heap sharing the dataspace and growing towards each other. The man page for sbrk() says to use malloc() instead.
02:20 < johnsmith92> Loshki: I'm implementing in a low level sbrk (i have like some tests to validate my implementation) and the test reports the error "releasing more data than reserved does not work as expected"
02:21 < johnsmith92> The test does that calls in the following order: sbrk(0), sbrk(100), sbrk(-200), sbrk(0)
02:21 < johnsmith92> I think the correct prograp break is that the program break ends with 100 bytes but the test fails, do you think it may be a test error?
02:21 < Loshki> johnsmith92: interesting. What does your test expect to have happen?
02:22 < johnsmith92> I don't really know since it's a black box to me, hard to tell debugging with gdb
02:23 < johnsmith92> Loshki: But I don't think my implementation works bad, don't you think so? i think its the proper result for that series of calls
02:23 < johnsmith92> What I know is that the test only checks the addresses returned by sbrk
02:25 < Loshki> johnsmith92: well, from the man page, I'd say sbrk(-n) where n is larger that previously allocated, is *undefined*
02:26 < johnsmith92> Loshki: mmm, thanks! I think I will have to check it with my professor, seems kinda weird
02:59 < hfp> Hi, I'd like the output of a command to be written to stdout as it normally does, but also grep the output for a subset and write that subset to a file. tee almost does what I want except that it writes the full output to a file and then I can grep for a subset on stdout. How do I do it the other way around, full output to stdout and subset to file? Will tee be able to?
02:59 < blackpawn> anyone ever written a FUSE file system? i'm having problem implementing sub directories
03:27  * storge raises his hand and answers "i haven't"
03:40 < BenderRodriguez> question
03:40 < BenderRodriguez> what does the question mark signify in this regex
03:40 < BenderRodriguez> /root(/.*)?
03:40 < BenderRodriguez> something about lookahead?
03:40 < BenderRodriguez> or lookbehind
03:41 < bls> no, it means 1 or more
03:41 < bls> or sorry, 0 or 1
03:42 < bls> so it's match /root and /root/s but not /roots
03:42 < BenderRodriguez> hmm ok
03:43 < bls> it's a bit goofy though
03:44 < namll> I am trying to have a random number with a switch to sudo randomly choose a background image on login. My script doesnt seem to work and only goes to the default case. https://paste.debian.net/1026741/ if I remove the default case, the script doesnt run or compelete.
03:45 < bls> you're setting RNUM to the exit code of echo, which is always going to be 0
03:46 < namll> thanks, that makes sense.
03:46 < bls> and is RANDOM a command you've defined?
03:47 < namll> i looked up for a random bash command, guess its a default function.
03:48 < bls> ah, you're using that method to skip prefixing your variable names
03:49 < namll> could I wrap my echo is ( ) to assign it to my variable?
03:50 < bls> you can't both echo the variable and caputure it. do them separately
03:50 < namll> going to test it out, thanks for help
03:50 < bls> rnum=$(( ( ${RANDOM} + 1 ) % 4 ))
03:51 < bls> or whatever your equation was
04:02 < NewbProgrammer10> bls: where did you learn about the bash syntax?
04:04 < bls> the man page and from having to read things like autotools
04:04 < dannylee> ...
04:06 < zamza> hello
04:07 < zamza> can i make a usb live OS while i'm using the usb live os that i want to install the live os onto the usb of?
04:08 < revel> If it uses a RAM disk setup, I think.
04:08 < zamza> cool.  should i just try to do it?
04:08 < zamza> i also need the new one to have persistence... i haven't been able to manage to get that to happen very often despite always trying to
04:09 < revel> Well, if it doesn't have a RAMdisk setup and needs to access contents on the USB post-boot, then you probably wouldn't be able ot.
04:10 < bls> why not just boot the regular system to write the USB?
04:12 < zamza> yeah that's a good idea bls lol... i'm just wondering right now because the regular system is being repaired by "boot-repair" and has been for an hour <.<
04:12 < Lostfile> are you trying to boot off a usb sick
04:12 < Lostfile> and a usb stick only
04:12 < bls> heh, I'd be more worried about that than trying to hotswap live ISOs
04:13 < Lostfile> whats hotswaping
04:13 < zamza> well, yes, Lostfile.  and no.  it depends on what you mean by "only" i want to have a live usb os with persistence that i can boot into.
04:14 < Lostfile> oh
04:14 < zamza> yeah bls lol maybe my priorities are screwed up.  i'm just waiting for it to finish.  it's been on "update-grub" for a while now.  like an hour.
04:16 < zamza> or 'Grub-update' rather
04:25 < dannylee> its a wet day tooo be alive here iun florida
04:29 < dannylee> salute
04:56 < eb0t> hey if uname -a points to kernel x   but my /usr/src/linux symlink points to kernely y
04:56 < eb0t> whcih kernel am i actually running
04:57 < meingtsla> Whatever uname -a says
04:57 < eb0t> ah thanks meingtsla
05:13 < syb0rg> so does anyone here own this? https://www.amazon.com/LANRUO-Pocket-Aluminum-Windows-x7-Z8750/dp/B0721SKXQJ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1527390772&sr=8-3&keywords=pocket+laptop
05:13 < matsaman> syb0rg: try #polls-about-nonsense
05:13 < syb0rg> apparently linux runs well on it, this would be the linux device of my dreams if I had cash to spare
05:13 < matsaman> $580? That's not terrible
05:14 < syb0rg> matsaman, this is relevant to this channel, since many linux users desire a capable pocket sized linux device
05:14 < matsaman> 'CPU Inter ...' nice
05:14 < syb0rg> yeah I know, pretty cool right?
05:14 < dannylee> c0000l
05:14 < syb0rg> 8 freakin' gigs of ram
05:14 < syb0rg> come on
05:14 < matsaman> if it's x86 it should work fine, yeah
05:14 < [R]> "many users
05:14 < [R]> "
05:14 < [R]> rofl
05:14 < syb0rg> it does, I've seen reviews from people on arch and ubuntu
05:15 < [R]> many users want a tiny piece of crap?
05:15 < syb0rg> in fact you can order it with ubuntu
05:15 < cmj> 7" in your pocket
05:15 < syb0rg> [R], many is relative in the linux community
05:15 < matsaman> I wonder why the screen is all pillarboxed
05:15 < syb0rg> and by that standard, many
05:15 < [R]> a no name chinese piece of ccrap at athat...
05:15 < [R]> lol
05:15 < revel> Sexy.
05:15 < matsaman> well, it's hardly a surprise, the vast majority of hardware works with GNU/Linux, one way or another
05:15 < syb0rg> [R], it is Chinese and that is a downside, I will give you that
05:15 < cmj> no way i could even pretend to type on that keyboard
05:15 < [R]> "downside"
05:15 < [R]> rofl
05:15 < syb0rg> name another x86 device that fits that niche
05:15 < matsaman> the vast majority of hardware isn't even that
05:16 < matsaman> much hardware to choose from, after all
05:16 < syb0rg> lol you know it
05:16 < syb0rg> *it's true
05:16 < [R]> the niche of cheap chinese garbage?
05:16 < syb0rg> [R], it's legit
05:16 < cmj> looks like a flip phone
05:16 < [R]> too legit...
05:16 < syb0rg> look into it
05:16 < matsaman> I'm guessing the keyboard is unbearable
05:16 < cmj> /quit
05:16 < matsaman> why not get a larger fold-out keyboard and use it with an GNU/Linux phone/etc.
05:17 < matsaman> they've had fold-out keyboards that collapse down to wallet size for ages
05:17 < syb0rg> it has wireless AC, active cooling, DDR3 memory, hdmi output, usb3, usbc, a quad core (low end though, atom) processor and an aluminum body
05:17 < [R]> and all the super terrific chinese spyware you could ever dream for
05:18 < syb0rg> hell yeah [R] that's the attitude
05:18 < cmj> it's fringe novelty. i've had many tiny laptops over the years. it's just (for me) not enjoyable
05:18 < [R]> and it has 128GB of rom
05:18 < [R]> just what i always wanted
05:18 < syb0rg> lol yeah
05:18 < cmj> that price point is way off
05:18 < syb0rg> it is actually a Samsung EMMC
05:19 < syb0rg> cmj, if you mean that in a positive sense I agree
05:19 < matsaman> I had an eee one time, what're those 10″? That's about as small as I'd want a keyboard to be
05:19 < syb0rg> 1920*1200 multitouch screen....
05:19 < syb0rg> matsaman, yeah, but you can dock it
05:19 < syb0rg> for portability alone this is amazing
05:19 < matsaman> that'd defeat the purpose of it being a laptop
05:20 < syb0rg> and I bet you can thumb type on it
05:20 < matsaman> that'd defeat the purpose of even buying it =P
05:20 < syb0rg> which makes it nice as a handheld device
05:20 < matsaman> 7″ handheld, ew
05:20 < syb0rg> to some matsaman, I admit it is niche
05:20 < syb0rg> which makes it even cooler
05:20 < matsaman> the put-phone-into-back-of-laptop-shell idea is much less silly
05:21 < matsaman> then you're "docking" your phone (which you always have) into your larger, clunkier laptop
05:21 < syb0rg> well if it doesn't fit your needs that is fine, matsaman
05:21 < syb0rg> but I would love this thing if I had them $
05:21 < cmj> weren't these called palmtops years ago?
05:21 < matsaman> oh I would, too, if I had $580 to throw away
05:21 < matsaman> but people with $580 to throw away, they're living the life =P
05:21 < syb0rg> cmj, yeah, the trend of tiny pcs is super dead by now
05:21 < cmj> why didn't palmtops take off
05:22 < syb0rg> because nobody wants them sadly
05:22 < matsaman> maybe because of the name
05:22 < syb0rg> in the west anyway, are such device still popular in Japan?
05:22 < cmj> well, by all means, keep trying
05:23 < syb0rg> well anyways, my question has been answered. Nobody here right now owns one =P
05:23 < syb0rg> too bad, I wanted a first hand review
05:24 < cmj> i ownd a palmtop in 2003
05:24 < eduardoVE> Linux, 2191 users...
05:24 < eduardoVE> am I in heaven already?
05:24 < matsaman> you don't want to pay $580 for something without a return policy anyway
05:24 < syb0rg> matsaman, buy it through amazon and (at least if you have prime) there is always a sweet return policy
05:25 < syb0rg> or if not policy, at least lenience/helpfulness
05:25 < syb0rg> barring the recent news about amazon banning users who return too many items
05:25 < matsaman> great, a return policy backed by another $580 I wasted on membership fees...
05:25 < agent_white> That little thing looks like a nightmare to type on.
05:26 < syb0rg> matsaman, ask around. You probably know someone with Prime who can add you to their account (they can add like five people). That is how I have prime
05:26 < [R]> you dont need prime to return stuff...
05:26 < matsaman> great, a return policy backed by having zero self respect and friends that won't want to be my friends
05:26 < syb0rg> I know that [R], but they are super helpful and flexible when you have prime
05:26 < matsaman> coooo -oooo -oool
05:27 < matsaman> they're super helpful when you know their home address
05:27 < [R]> helpful? i've never had to talk to anyone when returning stuff
05:27 < [R]> click a few buttons, print a label
05:27 < syb0rg> [R], I returned a broken device outside the return window for a full refund
05:27 < syb0rg> because I had prime
05:27 < syb0rg> and I have had other similar experiences
05:28 < [R]> well if you broke it after the return period...
05:28 < [R]> you shoudldn't be returning it
05:28 < syb0rg> it died by its own choice after the return period
05:28 < syb0rg> it was cheap chinese crap ;)
05:28 < [R]> lol
05:29 < syb0rg> and I was talking to support to see if I could exchange it to avoid bs, when they offered the return
05:29 < matsaman> what you want is that non-cheap korean crap
05:29 < matsaman> that's the good stuff
05:29 < syb0rg> it would have still been covered by factory warranty
05:29 < misternumberone>  hi, on multiple systems running multiple versions of debian, one of which is the latest debian 9.4 stretch DebianLive CD image,installing the package grub2-common and then running the command grub-mkrescue in any configuration that includes the option "--compress" prints "Segmentation fault" and exits
05:30 < syb0rg> misternumberone, new error messages since last I saw you! Progress. :-)
05:30 < matsaman> misternumberone: let me suggest this: don't use --compress
05:30 < misternumberone> yes a little
05:30 < matsaman> also let me suggest: don't use grub-mkrescue
05:31 < misternumberone> I want to use grub-mkrescue to make a bootable grub image however i'm not sure how to otherwise install grub to external media
05:32 < matsaman> misternumberone: there is literally no reason to do that ever
05:32 < misternumberone> i would like to generate or copy my own grub2 and not use a premade image like supergrubdisk
05:33 < matsaman> grub doesn't care what media you install it to
05:35 < BenderRodriguez> selinux question
05:35 < BenderRodriguez> if I move a file in one context and move it to a directory with a different context and run restorecon, the new context will be based on the current (new) directory's file context settings, no?
05:36 < matsaman> #selinux
05:36 < BenderRodriguez> but
05:36 < misternumberone> matsaman: so should it be possible to use grub-install to install grub to a block device like this gnu documentation suggests ? https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/html_node/Installing-GRUB-using-grub_002dinstall.html
05:36 < syb0rg> misternumberone, so what are you currently trying? Still the live desktop version?
05:36 < BenderRodriguez> this is linux ._.
05:36 < matsaman> misternumberone: there is no reason to ever read GRUB docs, hang on...
05:37 < syb0rg> BenderRodriguez, this is a fine place to ask, matsaman just gave you an additional resource
05:37 < matsaman> misternumberone: what is it you're trying to do in general?
05:37 < matsaman> BenderRodriguez: what syb0rg said
05:37 < syb0rg> yeah misternumberone you should have a copy/paste statement ready at this point :-)
05:37 < syb0rg> (kidding)
05:38 < misternumberone> matsaman: I need to install GRUB to an external storage device preferably a floppy disk but if necessary a CD, because I will use full disk encryption
05:39 < epicmetal> it amazes me that people still have floppy drives
05:40 < misternumberone> matsaman: and I will use debian stretch however I have had problems trying to complete this process using debian installer and live images. So I am now trying to install grub to the storage device manually using this pc.
05:41 < syb0rg> misternumberone, what if you did a regular encrypted install, with the bootloader on your HDD, then transferred the boot partition's filesystem to floppy?
05:41 < syb0rg> then just erase the bootloader on HDD and expand the partitions on the HDD?
05:42 < dannylee> a floppy is just t0000 small..for what you are trying too do
05:42 < syb0rg> dannylee may be correct, you could require a more minimal bootloader
05:43 < misternumberone> syb0rg: I'm trying the suggestion of using basic dm-crypt without LUKS and encrypting the entire disk with no header, leaving only the old windows fat32 partitions underneath, for the potential of plausible deniability
05:44 < syb0rg> misternumberone, so are you going to use the HDD for data only? Or is this setup supposed to decrypt and then boot to windows?
05:44 < syb0rg> or what exactly?
05:45 < [R]> of course the real question is... whwat is he tryhing to hide
05:45 < syb0rg> maybe you should start by clearly stating your hardware and goal, and see if someone can suggest an approach
05:45 < misternumberone> dannylee left, but there is lots of documentation of grub being used on floppy disks, in fact it is mentioned in the last link i sent
05:45 < matsaman> misternumberone: you do not need to install grub to a floppy disk, nope
05:46 < epicmetal> 3.5' floppies do look pretty cool, though
05:46 < matsaman> misternumberone: nor does full disk encryption have any relevance
05:46 < syb0rg> does that apply to grub2 though misternumberone?
05:47 < misternumberone> syb0rg: oh no what I mean is, for someone using a hard disk reading device to only see in the erased data of the hard drive, fat32 partitions once containing a windows 9x installation, which is what the drive had before I started encrypting it
05:47 < syb0rg> epicmetal, yeah they do, right? Plus you can play with the slidey metal bit
05:48 < matsaman> misternumberone: not sure what you're trying to do, but I am sure it's pointless
05:49 < misternumberone> matsaman: full disk encryption is important for security, which is far from pointless, it is very important to me
05:49 < syb0rg> misternumberone, so are you not overwriting the original partitions and only using space after them?
05:49 < misternumberone> syb0rg: no I am fully overwriting the entire drive
05:49 < epicmetal> syb0rg: we need a resilient modern floppy that does multi-terrabytes of data! ;)
05:49 < matsaman> misternumberone: it just has nothing to do with your grub endeavor, is all
05:49 < syb0rg> misternumberone, as you fill the drive, it will start overwriting old data
05:49 < matsaman> and no, it's not really important for security
05:49 < epicmetal> syb0rg: but it still has to make those cool noises when transferring data
05:49 < matsaman> if you spend very little time on it, it's worth doing
05:49 < syb0rg> including anything that shows up as a fat32 partition
05:50 < matsaman> you're spending I'm guessing days on it
05:50 < matsaman> full disk encryption is pretty much only useful when people have physical access, at which point it's barely useful at all
05:50 < syb0rg> epicmetal, yeah, but if you want to get nostalgic about noises then you are gonna have to fire up that dial-up modem
05:50 < matsaman> which is genuinely funny =P
05:50 < misternumberone> syb0rg: what I am talking about is how, when data is overwritten on a hard drive, it remains behind still and can be obtained using a device, or even sometimes using software. I know this because I have myself seen the procedure performed.
05:51 < artyx> Its useful to feel special when rebooting in front of your l33t buddies .. or if you genuinely have info you dont want disseminated i think
05:51 < matsaman> misternumberone: it doesn't, though
05:51 < matsaman> you have been reading the worst kind of barely-researched nonsense
05:51 < syb0rg> well it does matsaman
05:51 < syb0rg> have you never recovered a deleted file?
05:51 < matsaman> syb0rg: not really no
05:51 < matsaman> syb0rg: from _overwritten_ data?
05:51 < matsaman> no, and neither has just about anyone ever
05:51 < artyx> syb0rg: On linux?  Its hard enough to recover a file when it wasn't overwritten
05:51 < syb0rg> not from overwrittin data, hell no, that is what I was getting at earlier
05:52 < matsaman> misternumberone: you have seen no such procedure
05:52 < syb0rg> artyx, on windows, which is relevant here
05:52 < matsaman> you probably saw a file whose pointer was removed read, which is simple
05:52 < matsaman> syb0rg: well you were getting at a good damn point then =P
05:52 < syb0rg> lol
05:53 < syb0rg> yeah, regarding plausible deniability: boot to a thumb drive
05:53 < artyx> i think you can pooch a drive just as fast by deleting the track write info in the hdd as by wiping/overwriting
05:53 < syb0rg> and leave the old partitions intact
05:53 < matsaman> nobody who would be tricked by your inept attempt at giving yourself plausible deniability ... _exists_
05:53 < matsaman> there is no such person
05:53 < artyx> Those new high capacity drives have fat fingers ..  and they keep a record of how many times they smudged the adjacent tracks, no ?
05:54 < matsaman> it's not even that they would simply examine your data and circumvent your attempt
05:54 < matsaman> it's that they would already know where your data was, and they'd already have it
05:54 < matsaman> and you wouldn't even know it
05:54 < syb0rg> lol
05:54 < misternumberone> matsaman: no, full disk encryption with a secure algorithm is not possible to breach without phishing or torture of key holder
05:54 < matsaman> there is no magical russian hacker who infiltrates the physical presence of your computer and sits down and says "shucks, he used encryption!"
05:55 < matsaman> dispel from your mind this ridiculous idea
05:55 < matsaman> misternumberone: yeah it's not possible unless you take a $10 camera and point it somewhere
05:55 < matsaman> or replace a single usb port with your own
05:55 < dongbag> hot guys, i have a question
05:55 < matsaman> dongbag: prove it
05:55 < syb0rg> misternumberone, that is not what he meant, he meant that interested parties can deduce when there is likely encrypted data present
05:55 < syb0rg> which is true
05:55 < dongbag> is yuor name saman
05:55 < dongbag> that's cool
05:55 < matsaman> more than that
05:55 < matsaman> they wouldn't even be interested if they didn't already know
05:55 < matsaman> your head is lost in a fantasy land
05:55 < artyx> how are you going to know the diff between encrypted data and my cat walking on kb
05:56 < matsaman> stop wasting your time
05:56 < matsaman> dongbag: no, but that doesn't sound terrible
05:56 < dongbag> anyway, I have a rootfs.ext2 file, and I want to put it off an SD card and boot off of it
05:56 < dongbag> I have my kernal set up and eveything, do I just.. DD onto a formated portion?
05:56 < matsaman> .ext2? suggest it's already an FS
05:56  * epicmetal screeches down the phone line to syb0rg
05:56 < matsaman> so you would just dd onto storage
05:56 < syb0rg> lol
05:56  * [R] dd's matsaman 
05:57 < matsaman> but an sd card suggests you're using arm
05:57 < matsaman> which is silly
05:57 < misternumberone> syb0rg: I  know that it is unlikely someone would fail to find some difference between a fully encrypted drive and  a fully shredded drive. I just wanted to do it just in case they don't. What bothered me is matsaman implying that disk encryption is not useful.
05:57 < matsaman> not because arm is silly, though, because all things using arm are silly =P
05:57 < matsaman> misternumberone: there is no such person
05:57 < matsaman> there are -500 of those persons
05:57 < syb0rg> well misternumberone, you are aware you could have encryption without putting the bootloader on a floppy?
05:57 < matsaman> if you do this, you will actually create at least 500 imaginary persons
05:57 < dongbag> well, Im confused now
05:57 < dongbag> yes, ARM
05:58 < syb0rg> I can understand why you want that though, makes for a cool setup
05:58 < matsaman> misternumberone: no my point was that your grub scheme is pointless
05:58 < matsaman> and spending more than a few minutes on encryption is pointless
05:58 < syb0rg> Like the floppy is a physical key :-)
05:58 < matsaman> honestly, just using a floppy is enough, nobody will care about anything to do with you
05:58 < artyx> dongbag: I'm probably feeding the trolls .. but https://www.pendrivelinux.com/create-your-own-live-linux-cd-or-usb-distribution/ (rtfm)
05:58 < syb0rg> lmao matsaman, if so you just discovered a real life cheat code
05:59 < misternumberone> syb0rg: the other problem with placing /boot on the hard drive is the danger that the hard drive will be booted first before the floppy, circumventing some precautions I need
05:59 < matsaman> iddqd
05:59 < matsaman> misternumberone: you're wasting your own time alone
05:59 < artyx> It says usb .. but you can apply similar process for sd sticks ... You'll figure it out in the process i'm sure
05:59 < syb0rg> matsaman, it isn't a waste of time if you are working on something you want
06:00 < matsaman> storage is storage to Unix
06:00 < syb0rg> misternumberone, what precautions would those be?
06:00 < misternumberone> matsaman: I do not want /boot to be on the hard drive because I need to take it with me on external media
06:00 < matsaman> syb0rg: yeah but he isn't =P
06:00 < matsaman> misternumberone: no you don't, that's what I'm saying
06:00 < matsaman> you gain nothing at all
06:00 < dongbag> let me try this
06:00 < syb0rg> misternumberone, so this computer is too old to boot to usb, yes?
06:01 < syb0rg> Does it at least have USB? (I pray it does)
06:01 < ||JD||> matsaman: your pedantry sounds familiar, aren't you an user that was recently banned from this channel using a different account?
06:01 < misternumberone> syb0rg: yes it is too old, but I can boot CD so if some way grub legacy, grub2 or other bootloaders are too large to place on a floppy disk I will have to use cd
06:01 < dongbag> but he helped me
06:01 < dongbag> how can I not love him?
06:02 < matsaman> nope, but your nick looks unfamiliar... you're no one of note
06:02 < matsaman> <<<categorized>>>
06:02 < syb0rg> misternumberone, I am pretty sure there is a CD image you can burn that allows pcs to boot to USB even if the mobo does not support it
06:02 < matsaman> wouldn't even matter if there weren't
06:02 < syb0rg> in that case you could just make such an image on CD, burn grub2 to usb, and be done with it
06:03 < syb0rg> err *copy grub2 to usb
06:03 < misternumberone> syb0rg: yes you showed it to me before thanks, but it seems redundant, because if that works then I should simply place grub on the CD and cut out a step
06:03 < syb0rg> but then you could never update it misternumberone
06:03 < syb0rg> if you are okay with that, then sure/
06:03 < dongbag> it says my rootfs is 3 mb large lol, does that sound resonable or am I doing something real dumb?
06:04 < dongbag> it's a barebone system
06:04 < dongbag> I believe that was a dumb question
06:04 < syb0rg> uhhhh that is pretty damn barebones
06:04 < syb0rg> what does df -h say dongbag
06:04 < dongbag> er, I have not booted into it yet
06:05 < syb0rg> -.-
06:05 < matsaman> dongbag: what says, where?
06:05 < syb0rg> ^what matsaman said
06:06 < dongbag> failed to boot, kernal panick, can't find... init... sigh
06:06 < misternumberone> syb0rg: yes that's a major downside of CD, but likewise I would have to update the USB booter software by burning a new cd as well
06:06 < syb0rg> wrong misternumberone
06:06 < syb0rg> it locates bootable usb devices, and passes off the boot process to said device
06:07 < syb0rg> if it works, it works
06:07 < syb0rg> it it doesn't, it doesn't
06:07 < syb0rg> not updates either way
06:10 < syb0rg> misternumberone, https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/intro.html
06:13 < syb0rg> so misternumberone, if it still isn't clear, in this case your "physical key" would be both the PLOP CD and your USB containg grub2
06:13 < matsaman> but mostly: your imagination
06:14 < syb0rg> imaaaginiaaatioooon
06:14 < matsaman> fsckin' magnets
06:14 < syb0rg> how do they work?
06:15 < syb0rg> matsaman, have you managed to literally fsck a magnet? (aside from magnetic storage media)
06:15 < syb0rg> because that is impressive
06:15 < matsaman> I admit I haven't yet tried
06:15 < syb0rg> please do and report back
06:15 < matsaman> it'd have to be, like
06:15 < misternumberone> i'm looking at this, but again I have no "key" stored, i have stated this several times now
06:15 < matsaman> I mean they're usually pretty solid
06:16 < artyx> Try it with like a ... mfm/rll drive head
06:16 < matsaman> misternumberone: well what you're doing is nonsensical, so don't go look for sense
06:16 < syb0rg> misternumberone, I meant that with your wanted setup you essentially have a physical key to booting your pc, in the form of a floppy disk
06:16 < artyx> That was my first method of protecting my data on those old ST225's.. i'd park the drive then force the gear/track alignment off
06:17 < artyx> That worked about 3 times ... then it went BRbBBPT! .. and i'm like oh crap how many clicks was that
06:17 < syb0rg> yeah that sounds unhealthy artyx
06:17 < syb0rg> misternumberone, in the setup I described your physical key would be CD+USB
06:17 < artyx> Yeh ... It never mounted again (dr dos 6) ... i had to get a new st225
06:18 < misternumberone> syb0rg: well at this point what I really wish is that I could make my own reverse engineered firmware for the motherboard which I can view the source of. however i am not capable of doing that
06:18 < syb0rg> heh
06:18 < syb0rg> well
06:18 < syb0rg> misternumberone, you have two choices
06:18 < syb0rg> delve into full on linux hell
06:18 < artyx> but for 3 days it was the shit .. my parents couldn't boot the computer
06:18 < syb0rg> or become flexible in your goals
06:19 < artyx> syb0rg: Actually ... you can use liek a TPM firmware image . and file asa  key .. look up how trusted platform works on modern systems.  If its not a modern system, good luck. (or buy old usg surplus?)
06:19 < syb0rg> artyx, misternumberone
06:19 < artyx> oops
06:19 < syb0rg> *s system is decidely un-modern
06:20 < syb0rg> I hate how enter and " are adjacent
06:20 < syb0rg> or ' in this case
06:21 < misternumberone> artyx: ah the system does not contain TPM
06:22 < artyx> doesnt matter ... you can act like it does ... imagine for one second you boot a normal comptuer like everyone else .. then you mount a special drive after to do anything you seem to be worried about being caught doing ... then when your done you unmount your drive .. and its back to a blah container file with a pain in the ass key your going to forget on day 2
06:22 < cheapie> I've been told Linux has support for MFM and RLL controllers. Is there a list somewhere of which ones it supports, or does it (somehow) support all of them?
06:22 < cheapie> On a similar note, does Linux support ESDI controllers?
06:22 < artyx> cheapie: IT depends.. do you like 20 megabyte hard drives? (not gig)
06:22 < ayecee> all those ellipses are going to cost you a fortune
06:22 < cheapie> I have quite a few sitting around :P
06:23 < ayecee> i guess that's why you're cheaping out on them and getting some two dot ones
06:23 < cheapie> And yes, I have the proper cables, a box that can run Linux and has ISA slots, etc...
06:24 < artyx> ayecee: I stabbed my finger with a butterknife clean through the cartiledge .. the top symptoms are some keys  dont press as often as i want rapidfire .. the second is typos (which the double dot vs triple dot is)
06:24 < artyx> it sucked .. from 220wpm to a meager 180 :(
06:24 < cheapie> And I just saw your stuff about trying to protect your data on an ST-225... you do realize the ST-225 didn't use gears, right? :P
06:24 < dongbag> wohoo
06:24 < dongbag> it booted =)
06:24 < artyx> Lmao .. it didnt? are you sure?
06:24 < cheapie> ST-225 uses a split-band actuator.
06:24 < dongbag> thanks for your help!
06:24  * cheapie finds a video
06:25 < artyx> oh yeah that was the voicecoil
06:25 < artyx> dammit now which drive was it
06:26 < cheapie> Some of the other stepper drives (*cough*Miniscribe3650forexample*cough*) did use gears.
06:26 < cheapie> This is an ST-157N but the actuator in an ST-225 is very similar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwpQrWSx8B4&t=37
06:27 < artyx> cheapie As soona s you said i was checking pics
06:27 < cheapie> Actually, maybe the 3650 didn't use gears.... I dunno, it had something different.
06:27  * cheapie has mostly Seagates around here
06:27 < artyx> it was a white nylon gear
06:27 < artyx> well .. delrin? nylon? something
06:27 < dongbag> that deadband though
06:27 < cheapie> I have an NEC D5126 (dead :() that has a gear visible on the outside, but it's for the head lock.
06:28 < artyx> Not the head lock, but the head alignment
06:28 < syb0rg> cheapie, we all know actuator is a sci-fi term. I tuned out as soon as you said that.
06:28 < cheapie> Here's an ST-251: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTu-1dLegzI
06:28 < cheapie> The ST-251 is probably my favorite stepper drive. The auto-park is nice, and you can't really beat that calibration noise.
06:29 < cheapie> Admittedly the ST-225 has way better seek noises, but remembering to park is a pain.
06:29 < artyx> copy con off.bat
06:31 < artyx> cheapie : I retract the comment for now abotu st225 .. I'll find that drive eventuially ... it was a full height 5.25 " drive on a 286
06:32 < cheapie> Yeah, ST-225 was half-height.
06:32 < artyx> i'd wager its still kicking around my dads garage
06:32 < cheapie> Full-height for Seagate is ST-4*
06:32 < cheapie> (and the ST-506, strangely)
06:32 < cheapie> Here's a nice close-up of the split-band system on an ST-225: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t75dgwRIq84&t=90
06:38 < artyx> dads idea of punishing me was to take away access to the 486 and give me a 286
06:38 < artyx> lmao ...
06:38 < syb0rg> artyx, my dad once noticed the C: drive on our MSDOS system was getting full.
06:39 < syb0rg> So he started deleting files. And he deleted, and he deleted
06:39 < syb0rg> and then it didn't boot
06:39 < artyx> ouch .. dont delete files in root
06:39 < syb0rg> and that wasn't even intended as a a punishment!
06:39 < artyx> EVERYONE deletes the wrong file at some point. its a learning thing
06:39 < artyx> rm -rf / ?
06:39 < artyx> oops
06:39 < syb0rg> yeah but now I'm still his tech support
06:39 < artyx> Did i just execute that on the serv at .. ayup.. time to drive in and start a restorte
06:40 < syb0rg> so you tell me how that works
06:40 < Dreaman> artyx  is not good idea
06:40 < syb0rg> artyx'ing is generally considered a poor idea
06:40 < artyx> it used to be /\rticfox
06:40 < artyx> back in the days of prodigy
06:41 < artyx> rebranded .. when i was in my problem teenage years
06:41 < syb0rg> lol
06:42 < syb0rg> I ... think? I was a teenager when I learned about IRC, but a late teenager at that
06:42 < artyx> dude i'm going to have to go dig that drive up. i'm honor bound now
06:42 < syb0rg> so I don't have an old handle to put on display
06:42 < artyx> My first comp .. was a commmodore vic-20
06:42 < artyx> 300 baud modem (not the clamp style)
06:42 < syb0rg> I don't know what mine was, just that the only reason my family had one as a hand-me-down from my accountant grandma
06:43 < artyx> more than once i pressed the wrong button on the tape drive .. and wiped my game from tape
06:43 < syb0rg> *was as
06:43 < syb0rg> oh heavens no
06:44 < syb0rg> I played Cosmo's Cosmic Adventures on floppy, though, anyone remember that one?
06:44 < syb0rg> By Apogee Studios
06:45 < artyx> hmmm .... commander keen
06:45 < artyx> hey syb0rg: What was your "first" download
06:45 < notmike> does anyone else feel like they're perpetually surrounded by idiots?
06:45 < syb0rg> probably some porn artyx?
06:45 < artyx> lmao
06:45 < syb0rg> lol
06:45 < syb0rg> such is elementary school
06:46 < artyx> My first d/l was Telix (a better terminal program than kermit)
06:46 < artyx> took about an hour to download on the phone
06:47 < artyx> zmodem .. error correction omg
06:47 < jessica523> notmike, Usually, when people think they are smarter than everyone else, it's just delusions of grandeur. Most of the people you think are stupid are probably better at a lot of things than you. I'm sure you have some skills, and that's great. But when it comes to doing most things, you (like everyone else) are an unskilled idiot.
06:47 < artyx> Everyone can be an absolute genius at making the wrong decision
06:48 < artyx> s/at/when
06:48 < artyx> about halfway done with this pbx reprovision
06:49 < artyx> It uses a GMA500 .. yuck
06:49 < artyx> had to install to a VM. .copy VM to a file on usb stick .. then boot off of usb stick, create lv and dd back
06:49 < artyx> all because these stupid dev's decided they would insist on people using the x gui
06:53 < notmike> jessica523: I don't think that I'm particularly any more intelligent than anyone else, or that others are less capable than I am. It is objective experience that suggests, to me, that people (read Americans) are lazy and generally unwilling to do even basic due diligence to help themselves. There is also a tendency to blame outside sources for their own failings. We live in an enormous nanny state. If the internet went down
06:53 < notmike> tomorrow, or the power grid, or just traffic signals, can you imagine the kind of shitshow we would have on our hands?
06:54 < notmike> Just look at ##linux. How many questions asked here daily could be resolved with a simple Google query?
06:54 < syb0rg> jessica523, spoken like a pessimist. I'm sorry you suck at most things =P
06:56 < syb0rg> notmike, at least 7
06:58 < jessica523> syb0rg, Everyone sucks at most things. There isn't enough time in a human lifetime to study and practice to do everything well.
06:58 < jessica523> Some people suck at just about everything, some people are very good at a few things, but nobody is good at everything.
06:58 < notmike> I called Walmart to ask "do you have product x?" And in the time it took them to get me an answer I was able to get in my car drive to Walmart and find the product myself.
06:59 < syb0rg> jessica523, but is what matters the number of things you are currently good at, or your ability to learn new things?
06:59 < jessica523> both matter
06:59 < agent_white> jessica523: Agreed, it's good to be humble; there is always room to learn, no ceiling on that.
07:00 < syb0rg> jessica523, are you implying that intelligence doesn't matter, because in an infinite universe we are all essentially retarded? Because I might be able to get behind that =P
07:02 < storge> any ideas for at wifi panel indicator OTHER THAN wicd-gtk ?
07:02 < storge> or gnome-network-monitor
07:02 < Psi-Jack> nm-applet, or anything related with NetworkManager.
07:03 < syb0rg> yeah storge, network-manager and wicd are the two big ones
07:03 < storge> any others?
07:03 < Psi-Jack> Pretty much.
07:04 < syb0rg> only ones I know *shrug*
07:04 < Psi-Jack> storge: Better question. What's actually wrong with those?
07:04 < epicmetal> storge: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Network_configuration#Network_managers
07:05 < storge> i don't care for the look of wicd-gtk, and i don't use wicd or network manager, i do everything from a script that pulls up wpa supplicant and dhcpcd
07:05 < storge> so i don't need the whole package of either just for an applet
07:05 < Psi-Jack> Sounds like.... nothing will do for you then.
07:05 < storge> those can't be the only two
07:05 < Psi-Jack> Good luck with that.
07:05 < Psi-Jack> They are.
07:06 < storge> well that's unfortunate
07:06 < Psi-Jack> Pays to be overly picky. :p
07:06 < storge> ah, wifi-radar
07:07 < syb0rg> storge, if you do everything from a script, who cares about an applet, honestly?
07:08 < storge> syb0rg: it's been a long time without one, just thought i'd look to see if a good one other than those two were out there
07:08 < syb0rg> fair I suppose =P
07:08 < storge> there's a dockapp that does it, but it looks kinda funky
07:08  * Psi-Jack chuckles.
07:08 < Psi-Jack> Like I said, pays to be overly picky.
07:08 < storge> syb0rg: apparently it annoys people like Psi-Jack that i want to exercise some choice outside two options
07:09 < storge> scoff all you want, i don't really care about your judginess
07:09 < syb0rg> storge, everything annoys Psi-Jack, but he still seems to know a thing or two
07:09 < storge> syb0rg: i very much respect his opinion, just not his personality
07:09 < storge> i mean his technical knowledge is immense, and he's helped many many with arcane situations
07:10 < storge> you just have to pay for it in scorn sometimes
07:10 < storge> but whatever, problems get solved ;)
07:10 < syb0rg> someone should launch scorn-coin
07:10 < syb0rg> that is the currency of the internet
07:10 < storge> syb0rg: ICO here we come
07:10 < storge> thanks for that arch link to the other options
07:11 < Psi-Jack> Oh man, speaking of. I have 287 updates to apply. Sheash.
07:12 < syb0rg> Psi-Jack, updates were made to be ignored, we all know that much
07:12 < Psi-Jack> Not on Arch so much. :)
07:12 < syb0rg> but on Arch I get extra paranoid to update
07:13 < syb0rg> because it might break everything
07:13 < misternumberone> Sometimes when I update openvpn the locations and names of configuration files are changed and everything breaks
07:15 < Psi-Jack> I've not yet had anything break on Arch since I started using it in the past couple months. I've had a single package have a conflict, once in a while, but easy to solve.
07:16 < syb0rg> Psi-Jack, I never had a single package break updating Arch or its close derivative (that's right) Manjaro, but I was always still paranoid
07:16 < syb0rg> I have read too many stories
07:16 < syb0rg> even though most of them are probably bs
07:16 < Psi-Jack> Heh, Manjaro. Now that one broke all the fricken time.
07:16 < syb0rg> but I used it for like 4 months and it still never did!
07:16 < syb0rg> Yet I remained paranoid
07:17 < syb0rg> and returned to the green, Canonical pastures, where I reside to this day
07:17 < Lyusternik> I heard manjaro discussion.
07:17 < syb0rg> lol
07:17 < Psi-Jack> No, you heard a Manjaro bashing. :p
07:17 < syb0rg> that is the magic word, isn't it
07:17 < epicmetal> whooo disturbs my slumberrr
07:18 < syb0rg> fsck, I knew it
07:18 < Lyusternik> Pacman is just too good of a package manager
07:18 < syb0rg> I liked yaourt
07:18 < Lyusternik> and the last time I tried to set up Arch it was infinitely recursive problms
07:19 < syb0rg> pacman was only nicer in that you can update and upgrade in one command
07:19 < syb0rg> but && does the trick for me
07:19 < Psi-Jack> yaourt is horrible. Hidding errors from you making things worse in the long run.
07:20 < syb0rg> that may be true, but I had it install like 2 packages that worked fine
07:20 < syb0rg> I wasn't aware that yaourt was controversial
07:20 < Lyusternik> Is it?
07:20 < syb0rg> thought it was a selling point of Arch, actually
07:20 < Psi-Jack> Also, it's no longer maintained.
07:20 < syb0rg> christ, really?
07:20 < Lyusternik> Right.
07:20 < Lyusternik> What's the other one that gets a bunch now
07:20 < Psi-Jack> Really.
07:20 < Lyusternik> Octopi?
07:20 < Lyusternik> I can't remember
07:21 < Lyusternik> I just use pacman
07:21 < Psi-Jack> I use yay, myself, primarily.
07:21 < Lyusternik> and then Manjaro has Pamac if I need mess around with AUR stuff
07:21 < Lyusternik> which isn't that often
07:21 < Psi-Jack> I like three letter commands. :)
07:21 < Psi-Jack> Manjaro actually uses octopi. I believe it's Antergos that comes with pamac.
07:22 < Lyusternik> ... maybe something changed, because I'm on a Manjaro laptop right now
07:22 < Lyusternik> with Pamac
07:22 < Psi-Jack> Now I've got it down to automate AUR fully, GPG signing AUR packages I build, and deploying them to my personal custom repository that other systems point to to use for my AUR packages I use.
07:23 < Psi-Jack> Interesting.
07:23 < Psi-Jack> But. Shame on you too.
07:23 < Lyusternik> I'm on Manjaro XFCE
07:23 < Lyusternik> Er, Xfce
07:23 < Lyusternik> I never remember how to capitalize
07:23 < syb0rg> Lyusternik, doesn't Manjaro only come with xfce?
07:23 < Psi-Jack> You, sir, get the evil pointing angry monkey.
07:23 < Lyusternik> and I can't see my keyboard
07:23 < syb0rg> thought you had to install other DEs manually
07:23 < Lyusternik> syb0rg, it might be the default one
07:23 < Psi-Jack> syb0rg: They have Gnome, KDE, and XFCE
07:24 < Lyusternik> but I think there's other DE flavors
07:24 < syb0rg> hmm okay, pretty sure it is the default at least
07:24 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
07:24 < Psi-Jack> KDE was Manjaro's big thing.
07:24 < Lyusternik> It was?
07:25 < Psi-Jack> Yes
07:25 < Lyusternik> I have no idea how I ended up with Xfce then
07:25 < syb0rg> when
07:25 < Psi-Jack> When Manjaro was born.
07:25 < syb0rg> thursday?
07:25 < syb0rg> honestly, no idea when that was lol
07:25 < Lyusternik> Top of the downloads thing is Xfce, followed by KDE
07:26 < syb0rg> gotta say, xfce4 has been my DE for a while
07:26 < Lyusternik> It's pretty nice
07:26 < syb0rg> but recently I tried plasma- someone here told me I should
07:26 < syb0rg> and it is even better
07:26 < syb0rg> forget who recommended it though
07:26 < Lyusternik> I don't want to learn yet another DE
07:26 < Psi-Jack> Bleh, I was a KDE user since pre KDE 1.0.0.. Now I can't even bother with it.
07:27 < syb0rg> Yeah I used KDE like 5 years ago and thought it was trash
07:27 < Psi-Jack> 5 years ago it was decent.
07:27 < syb0rg> I only tried it again because someone told me I should and I was reinstalling anyway
07:27 < syb0rg> Psi-Jack, then your opinion is wrong and you are a terrible person
07:27 < syb0rg> there was this horrid circle thing
07:27 < syb0rg> it wouldn't go away]
07:27 < syb0rg> no matter what I did
07:28 < syb0rg> and it sat right on my desktop, Psi-Jack, just taunting me
07:32 < syb0rg> Psi-Jack, you aren't a terrible person, I exaggerated. Gimme them chats bb
07:32 < dStromboli> Hey y'all, I'm trying to rename all the files in a directory to remove a numbering that exists on some of them
07:33 < dStromboli> Many of the files end in a .~number~ and I'd like to batch remove them. I've been using rename but I can't seem to get the expression right.
07:33 < syb0rg> regular expressions do suck.
07:33 < Aph3x-WL> 5 years ago kde was bad
07:34 < Aph3x-WL> plasma is now the best DE
07:34 < dStromboli> nah fam, i3
07:34 < syb0rg> at least I'm not the only one who think so Aph3x-WL
07:34 < syb0rg> dStromboli, I have been meaning to try i3 on my low-spec laptop
07:34 < syb0rg> but my desktop gets plasma
07:35 < dStromboli> Extrodanarily worth it
07:35 < dStromboli> Can't live without it now
07:35 < syb0rg> yeah, sure sounds great for low RAM machines
07:35 < dStromboli> My mouse is dusty I use it so little
07:35 < syb0rg> lol
07:35 < Aph3x-WL> i3 is not a DE
07:35 < dStromboli> to be fair
07:35 < syb0rg> window manager then
07:35 < dStromboli> it is a wm technically speaking
07:36 < dStromboli> it's really an anti DE argument
07:38 < Aph3x-WL> syb0rg: i3 isn't about "low-spec", it's great even on a beast of a computer
07:38 < syb0rg> dStromboli, so what general approach are you using?
07:38 < syb0rg> Aph3x-WL, I'm sure that is true, but the fact that it only takes a few MB of RAM is what interests me about it
07:38 < syb0rg> being that my laptop has only 4GB
07:38 < Aph3x-WL> sure it's lightweight but it's the power, stability, customizability that you get which is unmatched by anything else, DE/WM/ or otherwise
07:38 < misternumberone> I am considering a tiling only wm for my new system because it has strong difficulty with x.org
07:39 < Aph3x-WL> i3 with plasma is just sexy
07:39 < syb0rg> woah Aph3x-WL that is an option O_O
07:40 < syb0rg> After I try i3 maybe I will add it to my plasma desktop, then, if I like it
07:40 < kuri0> does anyone else have git much faster after upgrading to an ssd ?
07:40 < kuri0> git status used to take like 2 minutes on the kernel now it takes a few seconds
07:40 < syb0rg> kuri0, git writes a lot of stuff to your storage drive
07:40 < syb0rg> so that is not surprising
07:40 < Aph3x-WL> everything should be faster after upgrading to an ssd
07:41 < kuri0> git had the biggest improvement for me
07:41 < syb0rg> git is literally all about managing files
07:41 < kuri0> program load times are mostly the same
07:42 < Psi-Jack> There we go. Up-to-date now. Time for a nice clean reboot. :)
07:42 < syb0rg> enjoy your SSD, they are quite a nice upgrade :-)
07:42 < kuri0> yes especially when you have SATA III
07:42 < syb0rg> aw yeah
07:42 < syb0rg> I have an M.2 drive just sitting on my desk
07:42 < syb0rg> I should really give that thing a spin
07:43 < syb0rg> but my CPU cooler is in the way :-(
07:43 < kuri0> is it PCIe or SATA M.2 ?
07:43 < syb0rg> well it is a Samsung 950 pro
07:43 < syb0rg> I haven't looked into it beyond that
07:44 < Disconsented> In the way as in have to take it off
07:44 < Disconsented> or in the way as in cant have both the drive and the cooler?
07:44 < syb0rg> Yes Disconsented, the M.2 slot is beneath the behomoth of a Noctua I installed
07:44 < syb0rg> I have been told the drive lies flat once installed Disconsented, if this is true I probably have room
07:45 < Disconsented> it does
07:45 < Disconsented> but the 950 pro is notorious for overheating
07:45 < syb0rg> oh lovely
07:45 < syb0rg> well my case is chock full of noctuas, hopefully that helps lol
07:45 < syb0rg> noctua fans that is
07:45 < Disconsented> People have put heatsinks on them and with some airflow that basiclly fixes it
07:46 < Disconsented> I buy sane drives so I dont have that issue
07:46 < syb0rg> lol
07:46 < syb0rg> my samsung evos have treated me well
07:46 < Psi-Jack> There we go. All updated, and no issues.
07:46 < syb0rg> I can say that much, I have two of them (2.5" SATAs)
07:46 < syb0rg> squeaky clean, Psi-Jack
07:47 < kuri0> i have 850 evo
07:47 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. Memory was starting to get pretty intensely used.
07:47 < kuri0> sad thing is i bought it like 3 days before the 860 evo
07:48 < syb0rg> I have one of each, kuri0, the 850 has been my main drive for years with no issues
07:48 < syb0rg> if that helps =D
07:48 < kuri0> how much tb written ?
07:48 < Psi-Jack> I have a Samsung 850 Pro in my laptop, and Samsung 860 EVO in my desktop now.
07:48 < syb0rg> no clue
07:48 < syb0rg> I have an 850 in my desktop, and an 860 sitting on top of my desktop
07:48 < syb0rg> lonely and sad
07:49 < Psi-Jack> Before Samsung, I had all OCZ. Agility 3 is still in my desktop for example, just not primary anymore.
07:50 < Psi-Jack> My 3 Proxmox VE servers each have a OCZ Vertex 2 running root.
07:50 < syb0rg> I think I remember hearing OCZ drives were good
07:50 < Psi-Jack> They were.
07:50 < syb0rg> but it has been a while since I was buying SSDs
07:50 < Psi-Jack> OCZ was good with memory stuff.
07:51 < Psi-Jack> But they were bad with constantly changing markets.
07:52 < Psi-Jack> And now, with me using the type of desktop environment I use....
07:53 < Psi-Jack> Everything is solid screaming fast, and reliable.
07:53 < Psi-Jack> And now, my laptop is upgraded. :)
07:53 < syb0rg> nice, my laptop is downgraded
07:53 < syb0rg> 32gb emmc, now
07:54 < syb0rg> +64bg USB 3.0 flash
07:54 < Psi-Jack> heh.
07:54 < Psi-Jack> I was just doing arch updates. :p
07:54 < syb0rg> I had a thinkpad, but the mobo kept dying
07:54 < syb0rg> how ridiculous is that?
07:54 < Psi-Jack> Helps when I have a multi-device keyboard. :)
07:54 < Psi-Jack> syb0rg: From Lenovo? I can believe it. They have become crap.
07:54 < syb0rg> and then as a fail nail in its coffin I physically broke that SATA connector
07:54 < syb0rg> *final
07:54 < storge> thanks again for that arch link, connamn-ui-gtk is perfect, best one for my uses yet
07:54 < syb0rg> but fail also works
07:55 < syb0rg> actually that is awesome lo.
07:55 < syb0rg> ... lol.
07:55 < syb0rg> yes Psi-Jack, Lenovo. A new one: p51s
07:55 < syb0rg> Now I will always say: f*** lenovo.
07:56 < syb0rg> not even censored, if this were a different channel
07:57 < syb0rg> okay, I have given this channel enough off-topic chats for one evening
07:57 < syb0rg> be well, and good linuxing.
08:09 < cmj> no keep going
08:09 < cmj> wait you dislike lenovo?
08:10 < storge> they did ship countless units with spyware
08:10  * cmj mistakes
08:11 < cmj> https://www.top500.org/statistics/list/
08:11 < enterprisey> I should be running ssdm instead of metacity over lxqt, right
08:12 < cmj> (no)
08:14 < cmj> just choose what fits your style
08:14 < cmj> i prefer lightdm
08:35 < Psi-Jack> enterprisey: Your actual question alone made absolutely no sense.
08:36 < Psi-Jack> I mean, metacity is a window manager, lxqt is a DE, sddm (if you meant that instead of ssdm), is actually a display manager.
08:43 < enterprisey> I see
08:56 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, so something did break with my updates.
08:56 < Psi-Jack> Plex Media Player got broken by possibly qt 5.11 (from 5.10)
09:28 < supernovah> so... I've created a chroot jail for public access to an archive. The archive is bind mounted folder mounted as read-only (with remount -o after mount --bind), the binaries available are bash, cat, grep, id, ls, mkdir, mv, ps, pwd, rm, rmdir, sftp, ssh, tree, vi, dircolors, find, less, printenv, scp, stat, strace, tput, wc and whoami. Bash was recompiled without /dev/{tcp,udp} support, /proc is mounted
09:28 < supernovah> --bind, remount ro,hidepid=2,bind
09:28 < supernovah> Is there anything that might be obviously vulnerable
09:35 < supernovah> this is what the public user sees as its directory structure (tree -fpuga --filelimit 25): https://pastebin.com/tKUb3K6t
09:35 < Psi-Jack> supernovah: Yep. chroot.
09:35 < Psi-Jack> That alone is vulnerable. :p
09:35 < supernovah> Well what is vulnerable about it?
09:35 < Psi-Jack> It's easily broken out of.
09:35 < supernovah> Ok linky plz
09:36 < Psi-Jack> Google.com. And please English.
09:36 < supernovah> I am speaking English
09:37 < Psi-Jack> "plz" "linky" are not englishj.
09:37 < Psi-Jack> English*
09:38 < supernovah> Sigh.
09:38 < supernovah> So google results I went through over the last few days mostly pointed to being able to use chroot isnide the chroot, but this binary is not provided
09:38 < supernovah> the user does not have write access either
09:42 < Psi-Jack> chroot is not security. heh
09:42 < supernovah> I think you're referring to the program chroot
09:42 < supernovah> I didn't use that program, or perhaps I did but I achieved this by using sshd_config ChrootDirectory for a specific user
09:43 < Psi-Jack> Yep. That's chroot.
09:43 < supernovah> The original passwd file has /home/public, the jail is in /home/chrooted, the real file is in /home/chrooted/home/public
09:43 < Psi-Jack> "jail" is a FreeBSD thing.
09:44 < supernovah> I am wondering if you're just reciting the same idea that it is not secure that all these websites are saying... the first thing any of these websites do is attempt to change the uid by using chroot
09:44 < supernovah> but this chroot does not provide chroot, or perl.
09:44 < supernovah> It provides a modified bash
09:44 < Psi-Jack> Seems you simply don't want to listen. Good luck.
09:44 < supernovah> But you aren't providing a reason
09:45 < supernovah> You're just saying no essentially
09:45 < Psi-Jack> Good luck means: Good bye. :p
09:45 < supernovah> Pretend
09:49 < elichai2> hey
09:50 < elichai2> is there a more consisted way to check screen rotation rather than cutting xrandr verbose output?
10:05 < cmj> meh
10:05 < supernovah> Psi-Jack: even running a custom program designed to break out, iI see in strace: chroot("../") = -1 EPERM (Operation not permitted)
10:06 < cmj> i have meth heads outside, but what about xrandr?
10:08 < elichai2> cmj: what do you mean?
10:09 < supernovah> meth is short for methamphetamine, it's the english name for a class of stimulant drugs, a meth head would be somebody who consumes that drug
10:10 < cmj> i live in seatte
10:10 < elichai2> ok? I thought you talked about xrandr
10:10 < elichai2> lol
10:10 < cmj> i am
10:11 < cmj> are you trying to see if your screen is rotated?
10:11 < elichai2> yeah
10:11 < cmj> xwinfo?
10:12 < elichai2> what's xwinfo?
10:13 < notmike> is that on-topic? idk
10:15 < pingfloyd> cmj: are they your friends?
10:17 < manjaroDeepin> I am having this issue from a long time but now I need to fix it. I have to dual boot linux destros but I am unable to use arrow keys to toogle in grub menu. Please help me otherwise I am unable to select the destro I want to work.
10:19 < oneko> May be a problem with your keyboard ?
10:19 < ayjay_t> so i started working on this bash script that would look @ hypertext documents and run shebanged scripts embedded in the document
10:19 < oneko> :-P
10:20 < ayjay_t> and then the output from the shebanged script would echo into the hypertext document
10:20 < ayjay_t> but the issue is that i can't pass variables from subshell to subshell called by the parsing bash script. anyone have any ideas or suggestions?
10:20 < manjaroDeepin> one1_, I think this is a user wide issue. Their must be a solution to this.
10:24 < shalok> Why does last field in fstab ('fs_passno') exist? Why is the order that file systems are checked important? Why doesn't it just check them all at the same time?
10:28 < shalok> Looks like it primarily a legacy thing: https://www.quora.com/Why-is-the-order-of-disk-checks-specified-by-the-FS_PASSNO-parameter-in-etc-fstab-important
10:30 < bls> because it's inefficient to process partitions in parallel on spinning disks
10:31 < elichai2> so? no one have a better way to check screen orientation other than filtering `xrandr -q --verbose`?
10:33 < well_laid_lawn>   unless you are using waland xrandr is the tool
10:37 < supernovah> So if I understnd this right, for a user to have any access to establish a tcp socket in any application, that application or a child process of it must use a process that uses setuid as root?
10:38 < ayjay_t> no
10:39 < ayjay_t> setcap
10:39 < ayjay_t> also, that's only true for certain ports without setcap
10:40 < nfshr> Hi all, I'm looking to exclude all dot files which are below /home/user in an rsync command. Meaning, I want to include the .-files in /home/user, but not /home/user/*/../*. I'm not sure how or i would express that
10:42 < FManTropyx> my linux is operating slowly
10:42 < nfshr> FManTropyx: since when?
10:42 < FManTropyx> moments ago as I started using it
10:43 < nfshr> FManTropyx: any heavy processes running? Is it a fresh install? What distro, hardware? Did you use Linux on that maschine decently before?
10:44 < FManTropyx> I think the problem is that this desktop only has 2 GB of RAM :P
10:44 < FManTropyx> there is heavy swapping going on :D
10:44 < quint> How can I mount a cifs (SMB) share without risk of issue when shutting down the SMB server?
10:45 < supernovah> I'm trying to figure out why Psi-Jack thinks why this chrooted user I've made is not secure
10:45 < ayjay_t> can it mount block devices?
10:45 < supernovah> he said to google breaking out of chroot, I've tried doing everything on the first few pages
10:45 < nfshr> FManTropyx: well, there you go :P.. when in doubt, check top/ sys monitoring tools. You might want to change to a leaner desktop env, too
10:46 < quint> Is there a mount option that will prevent programs from locking up when doing a directory listing?
10:46 < FManTropyx> right, I think I will update my hardware to something more modern :)
10:47 < nfshr> FManTropyx: that would be the more expensive version, yeah : )
10:48 < kurahaupo> supernovah: chroot is one of the kernel operations needed to establish a container. Whether it's possible to break out depends on what's in it.
10:49 < kurahaupo> And what other container setup operations are taken
10:50 < supernovah> kurahaupo: right, that's what I thought, but it inherently isn't somehow weak right
10:50 < supernovah> it's purely dependent on what's in it?
10:50 < pikudoz> linux has the ability to adapt to your hardware specs ... FManTropyx:
10:53 < supernovah> kurahaupo: but given that the user has the ability to write whatever file they want to their rooted filesystem, they can't just put a binary in there which gives them the capability to chroot out of it, because that would require a shared library or something to be able to escalate permissions to a more powerful user right?
10:53 < ayjay_t> i'm realizing that i have no idea how make determines which files to recompile
10:54 < ayjay_t> the whole tree!?
10:54 < ayjay_t> :-O
10:54 < supernovah> does the user who owns a file change what user it executes as or anything about what the process it executes as, has permission to do?
10:55 < ayjay_t> supernovah: what about vulnerabilities in system services
10:55 < supernovah> such as zero days in openssh? heartblled or whatever it was called?
10:56 < ayjay_t> you realize that a zero days are like "fml vulnerabilities"
10:56 < supernovah> yea
10:56 < supernovah> I was going to say if that was the point then there's no real saving anything
10:56 < ayjay_t> the only ones that get famous are the serious ones anyway
10:56 < ayjay_t> otherwise you need to be on mailing lists
10:57 < ayjay_t> and they're all serious, but i think its a matter of scope
10:57 < supernovah> so take this for example, empty directory is chroot for a user, I place ls and the required libraries in there for it to execute in their relative directories, ./usr/lib/libc etc
10:57 < supernovah> the user owns the jail folder
10:57 < ayjay_t> it's a huge attack surface area, i think is the issue
10:58 < quint> Also, how do I kill a defunct process?
10:58 < ayjay_t> pkill process_name
10:58 < quint> kill -9 doesn't seem to do it
10:58 < ayjay_t> ps -aux | grep "process name"
10:58 < ayjay_t> sudo kill -KILL processname
10:58 < ayjay_t> err pkill*
10:58 < ayjay_t> or something
10:58 < quint> uhh..
10:58 < supernovah> isn't kill 9 anyway
10:58 < ayjay_t> if those don't work quint, try windows
10:59 < quint> !ops
10:59 < supernovah> Doesn't a process that hangs on a failed driver with a fifo generally never exit until a reboot
10:59 < ayjay_t> LOL
10:59 < longxia> quint: you don't, it's already terminated when it's defunct.
11:00 < quint> Well that doesn't sound right at all.
11:01 < supernovah> ayjay_t: so say I start with this empty directory and sftp isn't available as a service to it, only ssh, I can scp files to it, do they adopt whatever permissions they're uploaded with or do they get a new owner, the ssh'd user?
11:01 < ayjay_t> i'm actually not entirely sure
11:01 < longxia> quint: man ps, search for defunct
11:02 < sauvin> quint: why are you calling ops?
11:02 < ayjay_t> stackexchange also has a good explanation on defunt and it's relationship to childs/parents
11:02 < ayjay_t> supernovah: i've just recently started exploring setting default ownership explicitly
11:02 < ayjay_t> there are some things i have questions about too, sorry
11:03 < supernovah> all good
11:04 < supernovah> I tried it earlier by scping from root on a server, to a rooted account locally and the file did gain the ssh user's uid/gid
11:04 < ayjay_t> that would make sense right?
11:04 < supernovah> I would have hoped so
11:05 < quint> sauvin: mistook ayjay_t for a thirsty troll
11:05 < quint> see above
11:05 < sauvin> People sometimes seem awfully quick to honk a "troll" label on folk they don't agree with.
11:05  * ayjay_t avoids that dumpsterfire
11:05 < quint> it wasn't really a disagreement as much as a mistake
11:06 < quint> read above
11:06 < quint> (on my part that is)
11:06 < ayjay_t> supernovah: i've gotten into the practice of writing scripts that audit system status to report if what i expect is true
11:06 < ayjay_t> and then the scripts run at constant intervals, that helps ease my anxiety
11:07 < quint> Anyway, it was a mounting issue causing the process to hang
11:07 < quint> Lazy unmounted the fs and it was fine
11:07 < ayjay_t> so if i wanted to make sure that file ownership was consistent, i would use a a `ls | sort | grep` combo in my .bashrc or something and if there was ever an issue it would let me know so i could investigate
11:07 < supernovah> I see
11:08 < ayjay_t> it's a good solution if you're not 100% confident that your system configuration is how you expect it
11:08 < ayjay_t> also, since you're working with chroot jails, have you investigated lxc yet?
11:08 < ayjay_t> it's like this amazing candyworld of linux awesomeness
11:11 < ayjay_t> `ls | cut | grep` is what i meant.
11:11 < supernovah> ayjay_t: no I hadn't even heard of it, but this server is under a lot of load already
11:11 < ayjay_t> okay well, it may not be the best sol'n for you now, but when you get a chance and you want to take a trip to the year 4040, go take a look at #lxc
11:11 < ayjay_t> arch has a good guide on it too
11:49 < supernovah> so I ran every method in chw00t, including providing it with a process outside of the chroot to attach to, everything that tries to access information outside of chroot fails with permission problems, it attempts ptraces, kills, straces, mounts etc... everything is blocked due to permission problems
12:15 < aias> testing
12:20 < screwsss> any kali linux users out there
12:23 < Guest87293> testing
12:55 < oiaohm> bls: even on solid state going having requests going all over place can thrash the cache.
12:55 < oiaohm> bls: opps
13:04 < hans_> what's it called when a process can't be killed becuase it's stuck in a never-returning syscall?
13:09 < BCMM> zombie?
13:10 < hans_> not exactly,
13:10 < BCMM> no actually that's different sorry
13:10 < hans_> isn't a zombie when the parent wont check the return value
13:10 < hans_> ye thought so
13:11 < BCMM> hans_: uninterruptible sleep?
13:12 < hans_> yeah that fits, i think that's correct, but i'm looking for another word, hmm
13:16 < supernovah> test
13:17 < phogg> supernovah: no one hears you
13:17 < Sveta> supernovah: 1
13:17 < supernovah> :(
13:21 < Dagmar> If a subprocess emits something to stdout/stderr and the parent _never reads that_ to clear the buffers, the process becomes a zombie
13:22 < Dagmar> If you've looked at a lot of people's shell scripts, you'd think they were a budding George Romero by how often they don't check return values
13:22 < Dagmar> Thankfully being lazy doesn't create zombies
13:25 < morf> in that case the zombie apocalypse would be over by now :)
13:25 < oiaohm> Dagmar: sysvinit scripts lot of them are just like that.
13:25 < oiaohm> morf: you still have servers locked up because to too many not killable zombie processes when people really stuff things up.
13:27 < Dagmar> yes.  Zombies can and will fill a machine's resources
13:27 < Dagmar> Thank god everyone's using reaping inits now
13:27 < ayjay_t> its because no one knows how to use posix
13:27  * ayjay_t looks around shiftily
13:27 < Dagmar> *Largely* this mitigates the problem of people not clearing child buffers when children exit
13:28 < Dagmar> Still doesn't do anything much about "just broken" hardware calls
13:28 < Dagmar> ...like using dd on a disk that subsequently dies completely.
13:31 < oiaohm> Dagmar: stuffed up docker with a stuffed up pid1 say no zombie reaping.
13:32 < rascul> docker makes me sad
13:32 < oiaohm> rascul: really is sad that zombie reaping has to be PID1 not something default kernel.
13:33 < rascul> there's probably an argument to be made about why it's not in the kernel but i don't know it
13:33 < oiaohm> rascul: some Unix did implement it as a kernel feature.
13:34 < BCMM> i used docker on purpose recently. felt kind of weird about that but it did work pretty well.
13:35 < oiaohm> BCMM: I did not say docker cannot work well.   But if you don't take some due care it can nicely bite.
13:38 < rascul> oiaohm looks like one can use SIG_IGN
13:39 < storge> rascul: http://www.smashcompany.com/technology/docker-is-a-dangerous-gamble-which-we-will-regret
13:40 < rascul> storge indeed
13:44 < lod256> Hi, could I ask a quick question for help here?
13:45 < rascul> seems like you just did
13:45 < storge> rascul: and even more succinct https://gregoryszorc.com/blog/2018/05/16/revisiting-using-docker/
13:45 < rascul> storge i don't know why you're linking me to these pages
13:46 < storge> rascul: you said docker makes you sad :(
13:46 < rascul> it makes me sad because it exists
13:46 < storge> i was trying to brighten you up with depressing proof
13:46 < storge> yes
13:46 < rascul> you're making me sadder by proving that it still exists :(
13:47 < storge> it's not just existing, it's winning
13:47 < rascul> it won a few years ago
13:47 < storge> which is almost as depressing to me as systemd winning
13:48 < pingfloyd> haha
13:48 < pingfloyd> no doubt
13:48 < lod256> I've got arch linux running on a flash drive on a laptop and used all my memory and it's frozen I can't move my mouse but I can alt f2 and login but I don't know how to kill processes from the other session?
13:48 < rascul> ps to find the process, kill to kill it
13:49 < pingfloyd> lod256: so console works, but X is frozen?
13:49 < rascul> 'ps aux' is how ps is commonly used to get a detailed listing of processes
13:49 < lod256> ps just showed the ps process I ran, yes I mean it's still working but frozen so bad cursor won't move
13:49 < lod256> thanks I'll try ps aux
13:49 < storge> lod256: if htop is installed, run it in the tty, you can then see what's using too much, and kill it from right there
13:50 < pingfloyd> ps aux | grep [X]org
13:51 < revel> It's just "X" on my machine. Also, I'd just use pgrep.
13:51 < pingfloyd> ps is more universal
13:51 < revel> i.e `pgrep -a X`
13:51 < rascul> pgrep is more useful when you already know the process you want
13:51 < storge> ^
13:52 < storge> but if you don't... ps aux, or ps faux for tree-like output
13:52 < pingfloyd> pgrep is kind of redundant
13:52 < pingfloyd> since we have ps and we have grep and we're in a unixlike userland.
13:52 < revel> If you're going to do `ps aux | grep $whatever`, then you might as well use pgrep.
13:52 < sgautam> hey guys
13:52 < rascul> true
13:53 < rascul> 'pc -C command_name' is also quite useful
13:53 < revel> pc?
13:53 < rascul> er, ps
13:54 < sgautam> I've a overheating problem on my laptop (using Mint Cinnamon), I installed thermald and tlp as well as NVIDIA's proprietary drivers and switched to the powersaving Intel GPU. Still, whenever I leave my laptop idle, it still feels very hot. This is not the case with Windows. Any suggestions?
13:54 < sgautam> I also lowered my screen brightness but that doesn't help very much.
13:56 < pingfloyd> what's sensors show?
14:02 < BCMM> why do they even bother asking?
14:03 < lod256> I was able to find and kill the process and regain control of the system. Thanks a ton all. It took like 3 minutes just to login to the 2nd session lol. Not filling that memory up again like that.
14:14 < BluesKaj> Howdy all
14:15 < screwsss> hey
14:15 < screwsss> do YOU use kali linux?
14:16 < hassoon> i use kali's father
14:17 < jaggz> I plugged a different set of speakers in my soundcard (mb)'s analog jack and my audio device disappeared.  pavucontrol shows only "dummy output" in outputs
14:17 < jaggz> in the config tab it shows "Built-in Audio" and the long list, including my [normal?] Analog Stereo Output, which is selected
14:18 < jaggz> I don't see anything in syslog about it
14:18 < BluesKaj> jaggz, have you rebhooted
14:19 < jaggz> no not yet.. was watching a school broadcast
14:19 < BluesKaj> rebooted even
14:19 < jaggz> was hoping I could fix it with a command or two
14:19 < jaggz> rebhooting is more motivational for the deed
14:20 < RayTracer> does it work again if you plug your previous speakers back?
14:21 < jaggz> RayTracer, no
14:22 < BluesKaj> then the audio daemon isn't scanning your HW, if there is one
14:23 < RayTracer> I'd second the fix attempt with one command: reboot ;)
14:25 < rascul> try killing pulseaudio 'pulseaudio -k' it will restart itself
14:31 < BluesKaj> think that might detect a new soundcard , but speakers?
14:32 < rascul> it has "fixed" some issues for me when i plug speakers into my laptop
14:32 < rascul> pulseaudio really seems to be junk if you have something that isn't plugged in 100% of the time
14:33 < rascul> sometimes it does take a reboot for pulse to figure stuff out here
14:36 < BluesKaj> pulseaudio is a necessary evil IMO, but the sound driver devs have succumbed to it's attractions and become dependent on it, especially on webaudio, except for intel
14:36 < jaggz|> killing it fixed it
14:36 < jaggz|> :)
14:36 < jaggz|> (it's set to auto-restart)
14:37 < rascul> BluesKaj it's not usually a necessary evil, literally the only reason i subject myself to it is for bluetooth audio
14:37 < BluesKaj> ok, jaggz| good to know
14:37 < rascul> alsa handles most use cases just fine
14:37 < rascul> on its own, i mean
14:38 < oiaohm> rascul:  I have more a few different usb sound cards.   Lot of them work perfectly plug and unplug with pulseaudio but I do have about 3 that are trouble.
14:38 < BluesKaj> rascul, and I use it because otherwise my sound driver won't play audio on the web without PA
14:39 < rascul> oiaohm i wonder if it's intel chips that give trouble?
14:39 < jim> there's this thing called cadence, for debian and derivs, you can get the debianized soources for it and build the package... it makes pulse cooperate and coexist with jackd
14:39 < rascul> BluesKaj what do you mean by "play audio on the web"? i can think of a couple different ways to interpret that
14:40 < jim> like youtube
14:40 < BluesKaj> rascul, agreed, with computer stored audio alsa does fine without pulse
14:40 < oiaohm> rascul: seams to be firmware as I have a 3 that don't work I have ones from different makers that are meant to be the same chipset that work perfectly.
14:40 < rascul> playing youtube for example? that should be no different from any other application that plays audio
14:40 < BluesKaj> rascul, not sure but think it has to do with flash
14:40 < CrazyTux> triceratux, is MX 17.01 patched for Spectre and Meltdown? are you still using MX 17?
14:40 < rascul> unless whatever it is uses pulse specifically
14:41 < rascul> oiaohm yeah i suspect it might be firmware issues also, but then alsa alone doesn't have the same issues for me
14:41 < oiaohm> rascul: the 3 I have trouble with don't hotplug properly all the time even without pulse.
14:42 < rascul> sometimes when i plug my speaker in i get no audio whatsoever even though pavucontrol indicates that it's playing through the speaker, only thing i can do in that case is reboot
14:42 < oiaohm> rascul: pulse makes the failure dependable.
14:42 < oiaohm> rascul: with pure alsa about 1 in 4 fails.
14:42 < rascul> interesting
14:42 < oiaohm> rascul: ie 1 in 4 hotplugs.
14:42 < rascul> stuff was so simple in the oss days :(
14:43 < rascul> but i guess back then we also had less exotic audio setups to worry about
14:43 < oiaohm> rascul: its like they are holding state and not reseting.
14:45 < BluesKaj> rascul, my old intel onboard sound chip driver played sounds/music/ads/youtube whatever audio was available, most likely flash, just fine without PA or pavuctl, but my m-audio couldn't without PA
14:45 < oiaohm> rascul: also one of my friends had a issue and when he looked at driver he found it did not support hotplug yet it was USB.   Its one of those badly done chipset that could be USB or PCI.
14:45 < oiaohm> rascul: basically as a pure inserted never removed PCI card it would be fine.
14:45 < oiaohm> rascul: or as a never removed USB.
14:45 < rascul> audio apparently is super hard to get right
14:46 < oiaohm> rascul: issue is over time our requirements have changed as well.
14:46 < rascul> yep
14:46 < BluesKaj> linux audio is a dog's breafast :/
14:46 < oiaohm> rascul: remember long time ago there was no such thing as a hot plug audio card.
14:46 < BluesKaj> breakfast
14:46 < rascul> nowadays we have multiple streams to multiple devices, hotplug, bluetooth, streaming over tcp, all kinds of weird stuff
14:47 < oiaohm> BluesKaj: even windows audio is a mess with USB devices at times.
14:47 < oiaohm> BluesKaj: only one that is tidy is OS X but it has quite a restricted list of acceptable hardware.
14:48 < triceratux> CrazxyTux: havent checked. i still run it when i need to. spend more time on lubuntu-lxqt, extix, swagarch, siduction, altlinux sisyphus. they ship current kernels weekly or monthly & should reflect the spectre / meltdown patches long before theres a commonplace exploit
14:48 < triceratux> oops
14:48 < BluesKaj> yeah, well Mac is iut of the picture for me...they've always been too proprietary for my fixed income budget
14:48 < triceratux> but then i dont know anything about security or gnu/linux/x11 ;)
14:49 < BluesKaj> oiaohm,^
14:49 < rascul> i can't mac
14:49 < rascul> the hardware isn't anything special anymore, and i can't trust the software
14:49 < oiaohm> The reality is broken drivers is the price for broad hardware market with Linux and Windows.
14:50 < rascul> oiaohm i'm sure there are good sound devices with quality drivers but i don't know which ones those are
14:51 < oiaohm> rascul: it does not help that buying based on chipset does not say the device will be good either.
14:52 < rascul> true
14:52 < Dagmar> For sound?
14:53 < rascul> yes
14:53 < Dagmar> Discrete cards like Turtle Beach
14:53 < Dagmar> Mainly it comes down to the quality of the components backing the final stage amp
14:53 < rascul> turtle beach has good linux drivers? i've never used any of their stuff
14:53 < oiaohm> Dagmar: in USB sound cards I have ones that are meant to be the same chipset different vendors and guess what one group hot plugs perfectly the others you hotplug you better wait 10-15 mins between unplug to plug back in.
14:53 < Dagmar> I actually had no problem with them
14:53 < BluesKaj> I just bought a ASUS Xonar DGX PCI-E GX2.5 Audio Engine card and it worked right out of the box , and inexpensive too
14:53 < Dagmar> I was even doing some fairly kinky audio routing, to boot
14:54 < rascul> Dagmar what about pulse cooperating with hotplugging speakers
14:54 < nfshr> whenever I connect via ssh to my second machine, the prompt starts with return code 1. Anyone an idea why this is?
14:54 < oiaohm> rascul: some USB speakers have really horrible chipsets.
14:54 < Dagmar> I didn't have to worry about pulse.  ;)
14:55 < Dagmar> I was actually doing 7.1 output
14:55 < oiaohm> rascul: it what happens when something is built for cost.
14:55 < rascul> on my laptop sometimes when i plug my speaker in (not usb) pulse can't figure out how to play to it and i have no audio whatsoever, can't even switch back to builtin speakers while it's plugged in, the only way for it to work is a reboot
14:55 < rascul> but other times it works perfectly
14:55 < rascul> with alsa alone, no issue ever
14:56 < Dagmar> YOu basically need a dummy device in between as a pass-through
14:56 < justsomeguy> nfshr:  Just a wild guess, but... do you have the PROMPT_COMMAND environment variable set?
14:56 < nfshr> justsomeguy: it is not set
14:56 < oiaohm> rascul: Alsa ignores the port switches by default.
14:57 < oiaohm> rascul: there is a configuration to tell pulseaudio todo that.
14:57 < rascul> oiaohm the only thing i ever had to do was open alsamixer and unmute it
14:57 < nfshr> don't see anything in journalctl -u sshd either..
14:57 < namll> in my .Xresources I have the forground color set as *foreground # but it seems to run into conflict with changing the background of some fields in programs. here is an example. https://imgur.com/a/HiADwMY Is there a sepereat value for these areas? I would like to just change the white text to something else. or remove those highligleted menu fields.
14:59 < rascul> heh i don't think i've touched .Xresources in 10+ years
15:00 < nfshr> ..or in whole journalctl for that matter..
15:01 < rascul> nfshr maybe something in one of the shell startup files?
15:02 < nfshr> rascul: I'm using zsh.. that could be, yeah
15:04 < oiaohm> rascul: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Troubleshooting#ALSA_channels_mute_when_headphones_are_plugged.2Funplugged_improperly    << that module on ports with messed up switch can result in pulseaudio not putting out sound.
15:05 < rascul> oiaohm i'll give it a try
15:05 < rascul> oiaohm i'm curious what they mean when they say "improperly"
15:06 < oiaohm> rascul: if it is not pushed in properly or the switch is dirty it gives improper state.  It can be a state where the port switch status is rapidly changing between pluged in and unpluged that case normally shows up higher cpu load.
15:07 < rascul> ahh ok
15:07 < oiaohm> rascul: of course turning audio on and off a few thousand times a second does result in something that sounds like no sound.
15:07 < rascul> yeah
15:07 < rascul> i'll check out cpu load when it happens again
15:08 < oiaohm> rascul: basically it could be the port switch
15:08 < oiaohm> rascul: alsa mostly ignores that.
15:08 < rascul> yeah, sounds like it could be indeed
15:09 < oiaohm> rascul: yes add in a few random minor hardware fails as well.
15:09 < oiaohm> rascul: this makes audio really hell at times.
15:11 < oiaohm> rascul: stupid part is conductivity issues can magically disappear in port switches with rebooting some laptops due to power saving turning off and adding voltage so getting circuit to work through the dirty switch.
15:12 < rascul> that's probably why rebooting "solved" my issue
15:12 < oiaohm> rascul: basically current cleaning of dirt.
15:12 < rascul> i guess i could also test this with power saving off
15:13 < oiaohm> rascul: depends on your firmware.  Some laptops only the boot up runs with full power then it power steps back before even entering the OS.
15:14 < oiaohm> rascul: ie full power to run hardware diagnostics.
15:14 < rascul> ahh ok
15:14 < oiaohm> rascul: switching power saving off and back on would still be worth a shot as it can work on some laptops.
15:15 < rascul> a quick look in powertop only lists "Audio Codec Power Management" and i'm not really sure what that is
15:16 < nfshr> interestingly enough, 'ssh hostname echo $?' brings back 0 (not logging in on interactive shell)
15:16 < rascul> ok powertop modifies /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save
15:17 < oiaohm> rascul: that tells audio card that it can power down when it has not had audio to play for so long.
15:18 < rascul> oiaohm that appears to be the only power related tunable i have for it
15:19 < oiaohm> rascul: /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save_controller  << the on off to power save mode for intel audio.  Y/N values of course.
15:19 < nfshr> 'ssh -t hostname echo $?' however, returns 1
15:19 < rascul> oiaohm heh somehow i missed that one
15:20 < oiaohm> rascul: might help might not either.  It all depends how the power_save_controller is hooked up.
15:20 < oiaohm> rascul: but if it works it better than rebooting.
15:20 < rascul> i'll give it a try though in due time, see if i can get it figured out
15:23 < oiaohm> rascul: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Clean-a-18-3.5mm-Headphone-Jack/ << If you trust your skills you could attempt to clean the jacks.
15:23 < oiaohm> rascul: they can by scary dirty.
15:30 < pikudoz> QN
15:39 < Acheron> http://www.ocsmag.com/2018/02/16/plasma-the-road-to-perfection-is-paved-with-bugs/
15:43  * Acheron awardS the crown to Mint *
15:52 < mouni> Hi. How to change the keyboard language of openbox?
15:59 < araly> hello everyone, I need some help. I have a laptop with a dual boot, manjaro and windows10. I was doing a windows update which does a few reboots until on one of the reboots, grub didn't give me a chance to boot on either manjaro or windows, but said "unknown filesystem" and I had a prompt that looked like "grub rescue >". all the commands I tried weren't recognized, I tried "help" "man" "?" "shutdown", appart from "ls"
15:59 < araly> which gave me a list, maybe of my partitions, but that I wasn't familiar with so I can't be sure. I had a USB stick with manjaro on it so I booted it up and now here I am.
16:01 < araly> I backed up all the files I care about on another USB stick as I was able to access to the partition manjaro was on, I don't care much for the windows partition. I tried using "update-grub" or "grub-install" on the terminal on the live manjaro session, but it says "Installing for x86_64-efi platform.grub-install: error: cannot find EFI directory."
16:16 < flying_sausages> Hey guys, I'm trying to make a group of users called sftpusers only be able to sftp into the server and only be able to do sftp things. Now when I use my sudoable account, I can ssh fine, but when trying to run "sftp -oPort=22622 sftptest@domain.tld" I immediately get a broken pipe/connection closed by host. Did I do something wrong with my config? https://privatebin.net/?97142a4de576a5b2#b38nhF3TWV6oFsKVxNASTjXbFdyy
16:16 < flying_sausages> uLtD3fuO7EargN8=
16:16 < flying_sausages> let me fix that link https://privatebin.net/?97142a4de576a5b2#b38nhF3TWV6oFsKVxNASTjXbFdyyuLtD3fuO7EargN8=
16:17 < trafaret1> hi there
16:17 < trafaret1> why it is so hard to find information about radiation rate beoynd earth obrit?
16:18 < trafaret1> what is average Sv
16:19 < BCMM> trafaret1: i wanna know what channel you think you're on, because it sounds like a really interesting channel
16:20 < trafaret1> BCMM: hi-tech guys should know this fact
16:20 < BCMM> trafaret1: well, the answer is probably that you're searching for the wrong thing
16:21 < BCMM> trafaret1: for example, what does "average Sv" even mean?
16:21 < littlebean> opinions? https://www.box.co.uk/9S7-1799E5-1225-MSI-GL72M-7REX-1225UK_2206597.html
16:21 < BCMM> trafaret1: over what period of time? and in what scenario?
16:21 < Azrael_-> hi
16:22 < trafaret1> BCMM: I mean it is impossible to fly to the moon due to radiation
16:22 < BCMM> trafaret1: the sievert is a unit of radiation dose, i.e. the amount of radiation absorbed by a human, weighted by approximately how harmful different types of radiation and different areas of exposure are
16:23 < BCMM> it sounds like you can't find your answer because you're looking for a specific figure when no such specific figure exists (or can exist)
16:23 < Azrael_-> i try to restore a bacula-backup and restore the files without the full path. i try use the "file relocation" function, but whenever i add parts of the path into it, the restore fails without any error messages. can you give me a hint?
16:25 < BCMM> trafaret1: so asking for average Sv in space is like asking for average joules in sunlight - it's dimensionally incorrect
16:26 < trafaret1> BCMM: do you belive in moon landig programm?
16:27 < BCMM> trafaret1: oh i see. it's not an honest question, it's an attempt to start this debate?
16:28 < BCMM> you got me, i'm a paid nasa shill. people with truly free minds know that it's OK to just use SI units any way you like without regard for whether they actually mean anything.
16:29 < trafaret1> BCMM: It seems to me very strange that nowadayws no one country want to fly to the moon even though fly over moon orbit with human on board
16:29 < trafaret1> very strange
16:30 < trafaret1> given that we have more progressive materials and computation power
16:30 < trafaret1> strange isn't it
16:30 < trafaret1> somebody may say
16:31 < trafaret1> it's too expensive to send human on the moon nowadays
16:31 < BCMM> trafaret1: sorry, i'm really not going to carry on with this, because it's too off-topic
16:31 < trafaret1> problem is
16:31 < trafaret1> we developing or not
16:31 < BCMM> trafaret1: if you want a better explanation of units relating to ionising radiation, there's a ##physics channel
16:32 < BCMM> trafaret1: if you want confirmation that the moon landings where faked, go and talk to some people who already believe in that sort of thing - it's what all the others are doing, and it seems to keep them happy
16:33 < trafaret1> BCMM: it's funny to talk with blivers
16:33 < trafaret1> who has no firm affirmation
16:38 < BluesKaj> they're like those "environmentalists " who have no forma education in science or eclogical areas of study. I's the calling a gas jockey a mechanical engineer :-)
16:39 < BluesKaj> ecological even
16:39 < rascul> so many developers with no formal education in programming ;)
16:42 < BluesKaj> they're trying to block an important pipeline in BC in Canada , claiming the indigenous peoples are on their side , when that claim is a total lie ...the native peoples are finally speaking out and denying the so called environmentalists claims
16:43 < rascul> reminds me of the keystone pipeline protests check out the pictures http://www.theamericanmirror.com/photos-fields-trash-left-environmentalists-pipeline-protest/
16:43 < BluesKaj> environmentalist = tree huggers
16:44 < rascul> i heard it cost something like $2 million to clean up after the environmentalists
16:44 < fendur> I heard the planet is going to die because of capitalists.
16:44 < timmyrick> hi my name is timmyrick i have tons of money and want to make a poker site, would anyone like to help? please pm me if so
16:44 < rascul> better than the people dying because of socialists!
16:45 < rascul> people with a dead planet can find a new planet, planet with dead people won't find new people ;)
16:49 < fendur> not sure why it has to be capitalists or socialists. It turns out the world ain't b&w.
16:49 < BluesKaj> most of the "environmental movement" is just Bull Shit left wing politics and they're bought and pad for by megabillionaires like George Soros
16:50 < rascul> this is probably getting too political for ##linux
16:50 < BluesKaj> who has a revenge agenda against the US...why? i don't know
16:50 < hexnewbie> Can we go back to whether emacs or vim sucks more?
16:50 < rascul> they both suck, but at least one has a decent text editor
16:51 < rascul> which i understand you can plug into the other one somehow
16:51 < BluesKaj> rascul, yeah agreed
16:52  * BluesKaj puts the saopbox away for today
16:52 < BluesKaj> soapbox even :-)
16:58 < jeffree> I setup a line in my /etc/sudoers file for a command and it doesn't work. it's 'username      All= /usr/sbin/command'
17:01 < lone-wolf> How to do extend taskbar in dual monitor on lxde?
17:04 < nfshr> jeffree: you want to execute it as root?
17:05 < nfshr> jeffree: I would say you have to define the as variable as well.
17:06 < nfshr> jeffree: and don't do it not using visudo btw. ;)
17:07 < BluesKaj>  use visudo :-)
17:08 < ayjay_t> so uh, `find -not -path '*/\.*` <-- does that exclude all hidden files in all directories?
17:08 < ayjay_t> yes i have tfm open
17:09 < nfshr> ayjay_t: try it out ;)
17:10 < ayjay_t> yeah that sounds like i have to create a couple different permutations
17:10 < ayjay_t> and i have to be aware of all possible permutations
17:10 < ayjay_t> so that's not really a great idea is it
17:11 < nfshr> not sure what you mean, sorry
17:12 < ayjay_t> i'm not really sure what the command does, so if i try to determine empirically what it does, i don't know how many examples to run it against
17:12 < ayjay_t> so that's wh its either a friendly/chatty guru in #linux or the manual
17:12 < nfshr> man find
17:12 < ayjay_t> yeah i already said i ahd the manual open thanks
17:13 < nfshr> you're welcome
17:13 < ayjay_t> you realize you came onto this channel to ask for help too?
17:14  * ayjay_t shrugs, moves on
17:15 < BCMM> ayjay_t: oh, i think that's a pretty big assumption :) plenty of people come here just because they want a way to feel superior to somebody else
17:16  * ayjay_t shakes fist at humanity
17:16 < rascul> ayjay_t that find does indeed appear to find everything except dotfiles
17:16 < rascul> even in subdirectories, but i didn't test it thoroughly
17:17 < ayjay_t> is there a casual linux chat channel? or an open source chat channel?
17:18 < ayjay_t> (thanks for giving it a shot rascul)
17:20 < BCMM> ayjay_t: more than one of the big distros have a -offtopic channel
17:21 < pankaj> Spydar007: Hello.
17:22 < mawk> let's create ##linux-offtopic then
17:23 < fendur> ayjay_t: I would think freenode would have some kind of general discussion channel. Freenode is all about OSS.
17:23 < rascul> mawk it's been attempted several times in the past, it has never gotten more than a few people
17:23 < mawk> :(
17:24 < rascul> the channel is still there though, you can /j
17:24 < mawk> every channels are here
17:24 < mawk> ah no sorry, I missed the second #
17:24 < DLange> fendur: there's ##chat
17:24 < ayjay_t> i did manage to get op in linux-chat, i think i'm going to keep that one :-p
17:24 < rascul> i mean it's populated with a few people
17:24 < oiaohm> Really winehq has on official off topic channel.  the highest count in users it even got to is 30.
17:24 < mawk> yeah
17:24 < Juesto> is that channel registered?
17:25 < pankaj> I just went away for sometime. Forgot the name of great man who was helping me to work around syslinux dual boot issue.
17:25 < Juesto> ##linux-offtopic or -chat
17:25 < ayjay_t> #gentoo-chat is pretty good, ##arch is so big it has like 10 on-topic channels, i don't know how many offtopic channels it has
17:25 < mawk> eww the offtopic channel has a capital L for linux, and ##linux doesn't
17:25 < Juesto> Ubuntu has a lot too
17:25 < mawk> this lack of symmetry bothers me
17:25 < rascul> Juesto ##linux-offtopic is registered
17:25 < Juesto> ah ok
17:26 < ayjay_t> ugh i had it for a minute
17:26 < ayjay_t> wait there are capitals on freenode?
17:26 < mawk> yeah
17:26 < rascul> yes but it's case insensitive
17:28 < BCMM> rascul: i think a big part of the reason distro -offtopic channels have got big is that chanops actively direct people there
17:28 < BCMM> like, "this is offtopic, take i to the chat channel"
17:28 < rascul> quite possibly
17:28 < mawk> then let's do that here
17:28 < mawk> you've got a new assignment jim
17:29 < rascul> this channel is often a bit more relaxed with offtopic stuff
17:29 < BCMM> rascul: that's a good point, actually...
17:29 < rascul> we're having an off topic discussion right now ;)
17:29 < BCMM> still, -offtopic and -chat channels are a good thing, i think. you get the occasional interesting question that's too abstract or too silly for the main channel
17:30 < ayjay_t> i just snagged ##btwiusearch rofl
17:30 < rascul> ayjay_t i'll send the spammers there so it gets popular
17:31 < ayjay_t> i'll set up a 1000 bots that act like upset 13 years olds whenever they receive spam/troll like messages so we can reverse troll the trolls
17:35 < Night_Elf> Hi all. I was wondering about the file permitions. When I try: "ls -l /dev/input/event8" I see: "crw-rw----+ 1 root root 13, 72 May 26 21:41 /dev/input/event8"
17:36 < sbef> ehy guys
17:36 < Night_Elf> What is the meaning of the "+" at the mode line?
17:36 < phogg> Night_Elf: there are more details about permissions not shown
17:36 < deadman36g> Can someone help me compile a wget command to download all links from https://ia601901.us.archive.org/4/items/RedumpSonyPlayStationAmerica20160617/. I last used wget -m -r -e robots=off https://ia601901.us.archive.org/4/items/RedumpSonyPlayStationAmerica20160617/ but that is not working for me.
17:36 < sbef> do you have any idea why my serial keyboard does not work? It works only when attached to ps/2 port but not when attached to serial
17:37 < phogg> Night_Elf: probably ACLs, maybe selinux. Try getfacl
17:37 < Night_Elf> phogg: I will try that. It is odd though. Of all the event* files, only this event8 has that.
17:41 < Sitri> deadman36g: works for me
17:41 < deadman36g> is it not saving everything as index.html?
17:41 < Sitri> Oh wait no, just 403 forbidden
17:42 < deadman36g> ok, yes that too, but the files are no locked from the url
17:42 < Sitri> "Item not available
17:42 < Sitri> The item is not available due to issues with the item's content. "
17:42 < Sitri> From my browser
17:45 < triceratux> i can see the site http://pastebin.centos.org/791821/raw/ dont know about the wget tho
17:59 < jeffree> yes, I am using visudo
18:03 < jeffree> there isn't some process to activate the /etc/sudoers file right?
18:08 < jeffree> me      All=(All) NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/command
18:08 < jeffree> shouldn't that line in /etc/sudoers enable me to execute command which requires root privilege without giving a password?
18:09 < Foxboron> jeffree: Yes.
18:09 < Foxboron> jeffree: provide the entire file or config
18:11 < DLange> or uppercase the ALL properly and have it working :)
18:15 < jeffree> actually I did forget that but it made no difference
18:17 < DLange> are you part of the sudoers / wheel / whatever your distro uses group?
18:17 < jeffree> yes
18:17 < DLange> so 1) what error are you getting and 2) pastebin what Foxboron asked for
18:23 < Pentode> love it when a new install decides to update some packages on its own accord and breaks half the installation :/
18:25 < jeffree> https://pastebin.com/KXu184nm
18:25 < jeffree> DLange: Foxboron ^
18:26 < jeffree>  /dev/nvme0: Permission denied
18:26 < Foxboron> jeffree: is "me" your actual user :p?
18:26 < jeffree> maybe
18:27 < Foxboron> what? /dev/nvme0 permission denied? what does the nvme script do?
18:27 < Foxboron> how do you run it?
18:28 < jeffree> nvme smart-log /dev/nvme0
18:28 < Foxboron> you don't prepend sudo to the command?
18:29 < jeffree> is that necessary?
18:29 < Foxboron> Yes?
18:29 < jeffree> that doesn't work either
18:29 < jeffree> asks for password
18:32 < dka> Why is this command failing ?
18:32 < dka> $ [ -z "$(git status --porcelain)" ] || for file in {package.json package-lock.json shrinkwrap.json}; do git add $file > /dev/null 2>&1; done
18:32 < dka> ERROR: Job failed: exit code 1
18:32 < jeffree> Foxboron: sorry, didn't see your first question
18:33 < jeffree> Foxboron: it is a tool for doing various things with nvme drives. That command retrieves the smart data.
18:34 < phinxy> Whats the most neat way to launch a program with a pre-set $TERM for that specific program?
18:35 < phinxy> The problem I'm having is a program cant handle my terminal, but it works OK with TERM=screen-256
18:38 < phinxy> nevermind its an ugly hack
18:42 < notmike> I've heard that it is a bad idea to send all data across Tor, that it raises a huge red flag and makes one less secure. If true, why is that?
18:42 < Exagone313> Hi, what's safer between reducing or increasing size of an ext4 partition?  The context is that I'm going to format a new hdd and while it is mostly for data, I may (or may not) want to install an extra OS on it, so I'll probably resize up or down the data partition at some point.
18:43 < deadman36g> Can someone help me compile a wget command to download all links from https://ia601901.us.archive.org/4/items/RedumpSonyPlayStationAmerica20160617/. I last used wget -m -r -e robots=off https://ia601901.us.archive.org/4/items/RedumpSonyPlayStationAmerica20160617/ but that is not working for me.
18:43 < jeffree> notmike: I seem to remember that the Snowden leaks indicated that intel agencies look for tor users for one
18:43 < rascul> Exagone313 growing (from the end) is the safest because there's less chances to screw it up and data won't need to be moved around
18:44 < Exagone313> ok thanks
18:44 < Exagone313> that's what I think too, but I preferred to ask
18:45 < jeffree> notmike: I remember a Defcon talk where they concluded that one is safer by not using privacy tools, lol
18:45 < rascul> Exagone313 growing from the start has more room for human error because the start of the fs needs to match up with the start of the partition but it doesn't require moving data around
18:45 < rascul> Exagone313 shrinking requires more steps, more room for human error, and potentially moving data around
18:46 < blocky> jeffree: that's a pretty sweeping statement, that one is safer by not using any privacy tools?
18:47 < jeffree> blocky: I might be exaggerating by saying *any*
18:47 < rascul> jeffree seems like that would depend completely on the tool itself and how it's used
18:47 < blocky> if you are saying that you can draw more attention to yourself by using tor, i would be more inclined to believe that
18:49 < rascul> using tor can indeed draw attention to yourself, and depending on how you're using it and what you're doing, you may inadvertently provide enough information to deanonymize yourself
18:49 < rascul> pretty sure the nsa runs a bunch of exit nodes also
18:51 < blocky> rascul: can the owner of an exit node deanonymize the traffic coming out of his node?
18:52 < rascul> probably not with only the information that can be gathered from the exit node
18:52 < blocky> i guess maybe not directly, but the more of the network you control and can thus monitor the better picture you have of traffic flows etc
18:52 < jeffree> they document known weaknesses on the website
18:53 < blocky> there was actually a defcon talk (maybe the same one?) about how various people have been caught despite using tor
18:53 < blocky> *caught doing illegal things
18:54 < jeffree> I like tor but I'm actually a bit afraid to use it
18:54 < revel> Why?
18:54 < rascul> if you're posting to a (non .onion) forum without tor, then post to it with tor using the same username, someone in place to see the appropriate traffic could potentially link your tor usage with your forum account and your ip
18:54 < rascul> also see how they caught ross ulbricht the silk road guy
18:54 < jeffree> I feel like I'm more likely to be watched if I use it
18:55 < blocky> i think if there is any realistic likelihood that you are "watched" then using tor is not going to do much good anyway
18:55 < revel> The Tor project makes an important point of saying that "Tor alone doesn't guarantee anonymity", actually.
18:55 < rascul> you probably are more likely watched by using tor, but if you know what you're doing and you're very careful it doesn't matter so much
18:55 < revel> It depends on who's doing the watching.
18:56 < rascul> the problem exists when you do something on tor that can be associated outside of tor to your person or your ip
18:56 < rascul> but then it also requires someone to be in position to get that information, which the nsa probably is
18:56 < blocky> revel: i suppose there are less well funded spy agencies than the americans
18:56 < jeffree> another thing to consider is browser fingerprinting
18:56 < blocky> jeffree: that's actually another place where i've heard that having no fingerprint at all makes you stick out more
18:57 < rascul> iirc the tor browser attempts to make browser fingerprinting not work
18:57 < jeffree> also, things like having the same tabs open all the time, if you have all system traffic going through that probably creates a fingerprint
18:57 < revel> blocky: I mean more like "not a TLA"
18:57 < jeffree> blocky: I would guess you want a normal looking system but that changes every so often
18:58 < blocky> revel: like an isp maybe?
18:58 < rascul> https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser/design/#fingerprinting-linkability
18:58 < revel> I was thinking more like "the guy operating some server you're connecting to"
18:59 < blocky> i guess that's where encryption comes in
19:00 < rascul> https can potentially be beaten in some cases so you can't completely rely on that either depending on things
19:02 < rascul> although unless you're on a corporate network where they mitm https then you're probably ok if the browser isn't screaming at you
19:03 < blocky> i saw a good quote the other day that "https ensures you're talking privately but you could still be talking privately to satan"
19:04 < jeffree> yep
19:04 < jeffree> some CA signing keys have gotten into the hands of who-knows-who
19:05 < revel> blocky: Encryption? Encryption doesn't matter much if I'm trying to protect my identity from the server I'm connecting to rather than trying to keep the data confidential between me and the server.
19:05 < rascul> the easiest way to defeat encryption is with a wrench
19:06 < rascul> https://xkcd.com/538/
19:06 < DLange> jeffree: got your thing sorted? sudo command != sudo /usr/sbin/command  otherwise :)
19:06 < blocky> finding the person to wrench requires deanonymizing them first though
19:06 < blocky> rascul: i know which xkcd that is without clicking lol
19:07 < revel> It's a pretty memorable one.
19:07 < revel> Yeah, I didn't have to click either.
19:07 < jeffree> DLange: no, I don't have it sorted. you saying I should supply path in command? I tried it, asks for password.
19:08 < blocky> you're right, of course, that https does not help you send data to a server without telling that server who you are
19:09 < jeffree> that comic applies depending upon who your adversary is. If you assume it is the government they *might* not torture you.
19:09 < revel> Depends on the government.
19:09 < jeffree> true
19:10 < rascul> if the government is in your threat model then you probably shouldn't be taking security advice from ##linux ;)
19:10 < revel> lol
19:10 < rascul> that's something you should be paying lots of money for probably
19:10 < revel> What is?
19:10 < jeffree> it could simply be preventative, not necessarily that someone expects problems
19:10 < rascul> a security position when government is in your threat model
19:11 < mnemon> rascul: depends what kind of role the gov plays. Against passive dragnetting or if they try to actively follow your traffic :)
19:11 < jeffree> nice nick :)
19:12 < rascul> mnemon either way, random joe with a $5 digitalocean vps getting security advice from ##linux probably isn't going to cut it
19:12 < jeffree> oddly self-referential
19:12 < rascul> there are some pretty knowledgeable people here though on security matters
19:13 < sauvin> Still, one has to bear in mind a simple global principle: you get what you pay for.
19:13 < rascul> usually
19:13 < storge> and likely some national security peeps hanging in the channel for ages too
19:13 < jeffree> that has to be expected :)
19:14 < sauvin> Yup. You don't always know what you're going to be paying. :>
19:15 < rascul> i've gotten a lot more from ##linux than what i've paid for ;)
19:15 < mnemon> sauvin: you can also just put some effort in instead.
19:15 < sauvin> rascul, have you never helped anybody with anything?
19:16 < blocky> lol > rascul | if the government is in your threat model then you probably shouldn't be taking security advice from ##linux ;)
19:17 < jeffree> security is hard
19:18 < mnemon> rascul: $5 VPS and some advise on how to setup a decent VPN connection will bypass schemes of many less sophisticated govs and their tracking/filtering. But I do understand what you mean :)
19:18 < azy> where the best linux-compatible modern laptop lists at?
19:19 < jeffree> system76?
19:21 < azy> woah i didnt know about those
19:24 < triceratux> linux isnt keen on compatibility lists. its a hit or miss thing on google https://www.projektneptun.ch/en/blog/read/12 https://bestreviews.com/best-linux-laptops
19:24 < dgurney> as a general tip, just go for something with as much generic hardware as possible
19:26 < jeffree> you might just find one you like and look for linux user reviews to see if they had problems
19:26 < rascul> sauvin i help people with stuff sometimes
19:26 < jeffree> sometimes you can go on amazon and type 'linux' in the questions search box to get relevant reviews
19:27 < rascul> azy generally laptops that ship with linux preinstalled will have pretty good compatibility, but you can't necessarily rely on that
19:27 < jeffree> that's the best thing I've found
19:27 < rascul> system76 has shipped laptops with fingerprint readers that didn't have drivers available for linux, for example
19:27 < bls> yeah, even system76 has released systems with unsupported hardware
19:27 < bls> or absolute garbage quality
19:27 < rascul> dell has shipped laptops with ubuntu preinstalled that had unsupported bluetooth chips
19:28 < bls> same with zareason
19:28 < jeffree> you can even buy products that claim to be linux compatible and they aren't
19:28 < dgurney> used thinkpads ftw :P
19:28 < rascul> although dell and system76 are probably some of your best bets, i don't think dell is generally doing that anymore
19:28 < rascul> dell puts a lot of effort into their linux laptops nowadays
19:28 < storge> rascul: i bought the first line of dell ubuntu offerings, just to push a linux sale statistic (circa 2008 or 9) and i had to jump through a few hoops to get wifi working
19:29 < hans_> azy, well, idk, but they're not at the asus ROG lineups. idk what they do with their touchpads, but linux doesn't recognize them at all >.>
19:29 < rascul> storge the 1420n? i got that one too
19:29 < storge> rascul: exactly
19:29 < rascul> i had no wifi issues, though
19:29 < rascul> that i can recall
19:29 < bls> I got an XPS around 2012 and it switching distros bricked it
19:29 < blocky> wow
19:29 < storge> rascul: still running strong, that laptop. and it did about 12k miles in a Ram mount as i bounced along dusty roads. still going like a champ.
19:30 < blocky> how does that work i wonder
19:30 < bls> but that was a generic bug, upgrading windows on it did the same thing
19:30 < blocky> ah
19:30 < rascul> system76 gets clevo laptops, and sometimes clevo decides to slightly modify the offering so they can do bigger runs and sell it to more than just system76, which has resulted in some cases where hardware isn't supported
19:30 < dgurney> I use an X220, works like a charm
19:30 < rascul> storge my video died after about 3 years
19:31 < blocky> i have apple now but i'm never getting rid of my T420
19:31 < bls> does system76 still act like everything is fine or have they finally started admitting to problems in their supply chain?
19:31 < rascul> storge i had one of the first runs of that model too, so most people who got the 1420n probably had slightly different issues
19:31 < storge> T520 here :)
19:31 < storge> 4.16.12-storge-T520
19:31 < rascul> bls they've admitted it and explained the issues to some extent anyway
19:31 < dgurney> older macbooks are actually alright for linux, just watch out for broadcom 4331 wifi
19:32 < bls> I know when they got that bad batch of keyboards, they did everything they could to keep from having to replace them
19:33 < storge> remember way back in the day, yellowdog linux on the old mac books? good times. i had a buddy on a USNavy submarine who said some of the officers on the command deck had yellowdog macbooks
19:33 < storge> back in the day of debian for sparc on my sparcstation 5's
19:33  * storge sighs remembering
19:34 < dgurney> back when I had a 13" late 2011 mbp, linux ran like a charm, apart from that junk broadcom wifi
19:34 < blocky> i looked hard at xps 13 and x1 carbon before getting this mac
19:35 < blocky> haven't tried linux on it yet though
19:35 < bls> I bought myself a 3rd gen X1 carbon. have been content with it until work provided me a MBP w/retina display
19:35 < dgurney> blocky, which generation is it?
19:35 < storge> running systemd on a mac is getting pretty close to realizing the cathedral dreams
19:35 < blocky> 2015
19:36 < Some_Person> I'm still looking into various remote desktop solutions... so far, the one that has seemed most promising has been NoMachine. It supports audio and seems to work pretty damn well, but is sadly not FOSS and the free version is too limited for what I want. Does anyone know of some good alternatives to try? I've tried x2go, but it seemed kind of unstable and worked poorly from my laptop with macOS, and I've tried some flavor of RDP
19:36 < Some_Person>  but wasn't satisfied with the performance
19:36 < bls> that's pretty par for the course for remote desktop usage
19:37 < blocky> tbh os x gives me enough unix-y userland for the times i can't ssh into a proper system
19:37 < bls> you're better off setting up a VPN and using that connection locally rather than trying to ship an entire desktop display back to you
19:37 < Some_Person> bls: How is that effectively any different?
19:38 < rascul> especially over the internets
19:38 < bls> because you're not having to round trip display updates
19:38 < blocky> are you trying to run a single gui app remotely or an entire desktop?
19:38 < rascul> you can do X forwarding
19:39 < rascul> remote desktop gets very bleh once you have to go more than a couple hops over the network
19:39 < bls> there's a non-trivial overhead for keeping a remote display looking decent, and it breaks down pretty quickly
19:39 < Some_Person> rascul: Does X forwarding work with non-Linux clients? And does it support audio?
19:40 < Sitri> Some_Person: Yes, anything that can run an X server.  No.
19:40 < rascul> i have no clue about anything not related to linux, nor have i ever bothered with audio in those cases
19:41 < rascul> there may be other solutions for audio though, i think for example that you can convince pulseaudio to send audio to another pulseaudio over the network
19:41 < rascul> or some weird voodoo like that
19:41 < bls> if this is one of those "I've got a remote server I'm going to use to run a full DE to watch netflix/hulu/amazon/etc" expect a sub-par experience
19:42 < Some_Person> If it requires an X server on the other end and something external to get the audio over , I don't think that's going to do the business... it needs to be something relatively easy to set up
19:42 < Some_Person> on the client end
19:42 < rascul> oh my, streaming video over a remote desktop sounds horrible
19:42 < Sitri> Some_Person: RDP and X are the fastest remote desktop protocols I've seen.  VNC is very, very laggy.  Haven't tried anything else.
19:42 < rascul> Some_Person what is your use case?
19:42 < bls> rascul: that's the only reason I've ever seen someone attempt to do this
19:42 < rascul> what exactly are you trying to do?
19:42 < Sitri> If you're streaming video... just stream video
19:43 < dgurney> blocky, yeah macOS is honestly pretty good when it comes to that... anyway, from what I'm reading on the arch wiki, 2015 mbp's should work alright with linux
19:43 < rascul> there may be much better solutions for what you're attempting
19:43 < Some_Person> rascul: What I'm trying to do, and I'm not sure how feasible this is, is set up something that would allow the person I'm in a long distance relationship with and me to play old point-and-click games together with ScummVM. Would be really nice if we would both be able to control it.
19:44 < Some_Person> These types of games don't exactly need high framerate or anything
19:44 < klotz> you mean like monkey island and sam and max?
19:44 < Sitri> Does the emulator not support networking?
19:44 < Some_Person> klotz: Yep, that sort of stuff
19:44 < bls> so remote desktop + screen sharing + playing games
19:44 < pankaj> Can someone please help me with issue with syslinux please. I have to dual boot but their is no proper documentation available on net. Plase help.
19:44 < Sitri> pankaj: just ask
19:45 < bls> there's also a syslinux channel on here that I believe the actual dev(s) hang out in
19:45 < pankaj> Sitri: I am on archlinux and just installed syslinux. everything is fine but I have to dual boot manjaro linux that I have set on partion sda4. of the same device
19:46 < pankaj> bls: Yes, I have asked the same question to them. And also some times before.
19:46 < Some_Person> Do any of y'all have a better idea how to accomplish this?
19:46 < bls> heh, good luck. you're going to need help from either arch or manjaro for their specialized setups, and they're likely not going to provide it
19:46 < bls> and why syslinux instead of grub?
19:46 < pankaj> bls: Just for experimentation purpose.
19:47 < klotz> Some_Person: how would multiplayer work in those games exactly?
19:47 < Some_Person> klotz: Wouldn't be true multiplayer or anything, probably just one of us controlling at a time
19:47 < bls> why not just run teamviewer on both your machines then?
19:48 < pankaj> Sitri: I have followed this link and did some changes: jasonwryan.com/blog/2012/07/09/syslinux/
19:48 < pankaj> Sitri: It is very old although and I know not much or may be anything about dual boot but did some of the configuration of it.
19:50 < blocky> Some_Person: are both of you running linux?
19:50 < wr> how can check cmos battery level inside nix?
19:50 < pankaj> Sitri: Hello.
19:52 < rascul> wr i don't think there's any interface for that
19:53 < rascul> wr if you're having clock issues, ntp is a potential solution
19:53 < Sitri> pankaj: 1) So you have one disk, and you want to dual boot from it right?  4th partition is Manjaro, which is the Arch / and which is the /boot?.  2) And to confirm, you're using extlinux specifically, right?
19:54 < mawk> what is wr ?
19:54 < pankaj> Sitri: I am using syslinux although you are right because as per the community both have been merged into syslinux.
19:54 < POJO> mawk: they're a user on this channel
19:55 < mawk> ah sorry
19:55 < pankaj> Sitri: The root partition for arch is /dev/sda1 and for manjaro is /dev/sda4
19:55 < wr> mawk, cmos battery level
19:55 < pankaj> Sitri: The swap is /dev/sda2 and home is also there /dev/sda3
19:55 < rascul> wr probably the best way is to just pull the battery and put a voltmeter on it
19:55 < wr> rascul, ok
19:55 < mawk> there is a CMOS register for that wr
19:56 < mawk> exposed by a file in /proc I can't remember
19:56 < mawk> also you can code it yourself, a few lines of python
19:56 < Sitri> Okay, so syslinux installs itself to a partition, so you have to have your Manjaro /boot stuff in the Arch /boot, or have a shared, dedicated /boot.
19:57 < wr> mawk, never used python
19:57 < mawk> cat /proc/driver/rtc
19:57 < mawk> you've got the battery status in it
19:57 < Sitri> Beyond that, you just simply make another entry in the configuration file that points to the Manjaro stuff and then it all works.
19:57  * Sitri has done dual boot with syslinux
19:57 < wr> mawk, cool, it says ok on status
19:57 < mawk> yeah
19:58 < wr> batt_status: okay
19:58 < mawk> if you wanted to do it yourself you need to open /dev/port, then make some requests at the right registers
19:58 < pankaj> Sitri: OK. I think I should go for first option for now. But should I copy vmlinux and initrd (of manjaro) to /boot/ of arch or whole /boot/ of manjaro to /boot/ of arch?
19:58 < mawk> or do the requests yourself by allowing these ports in the I/O bitmap, or by making your IOPL higher
19:58 < Sitri> Otherwise, I think you'd end up having to chain-load.  So you install extlinux separately onto Manjaro, and have the Arch one have a chainload option to boot to that.  However, I haven't done chainloading with syslinux at all, so I'm merely guessing.
19:59 < Sitri> Just the initrd and kernel
19:59 < bls> and since this is just for educational purposes only, just try stuff and see what happens, break open the source code
20:01 < pankaj> Sitri: OK. And then I think that 'LABEL\n LINUX, APPEND, INITRD' etc stuff to set. Right?
20:01 < Sitri> Yes
20:02 < pankaj> Sitri: Over ?
20:02 < Sitri> ?
20:02 < pankaj> Sitri: Is that all I have to do or anything more?
20:02 < Sitri> Yes.
20:04 < pankaj> Sitri: Just one thing is that in my fstab file their is no entry for '/dev/sda4'. Only for '/dev/sda1' i.e. root; Will that be a issue?
20:04 < Sitri> No
20:04 < pankaj> Sitri: OK. Then great. I am going for this.
20:13 < pankaj> Sitri: Just one question. I want the menu so that I can select the destro that I want to boot to. So, how to set DEFAULT option for that?
20:14 < Sitri> You set PROMPT
20:16 < pankaj> Sitri: OK
20:29 < Yamakaja> Any recommendations for text editors that i can use to "quickly" navigate a file that's about 0.5M lines?
20:29 < notmike> Vi
20:29 < notmike> Ed
20:29 < notmike> Emacs
20:29 < Yamakaja> lets see
20:30 < jeffree> why does sudoers have to be fake news? :(
20:30 < Yamakaja> What?
20:30 < jeffree> haha
20:32 < notmike> jeffree: lulz
20:33 < jeffree> if anyone knows why 'me      ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/iotop' does not work, I would appreciate a tip
20:34 < iodev> Yamakaja: yeah, Vim
20:34 < notmike> It's so easy with vim, unlike emacs which requires a PhD
20:34 < Yamakaja> lol
20:35 < Yamakaja> I mean, both vim and less work quite nicely with files of that size - but navigation isn't too nice (Other than directly jumping to different lines). Constantly pressing page-down really doesn't get you too far with that size
20:35 < bls> you've likely got your rules in the wrong order. sudo -l to debug
20:36 < notmike> You can type / followed by a regex iirc
20:36 < dka> I am calling a Gitlab-CI trigger I have just created in the middle of the CI. It gives me 404... I have echo the curl command and tried it locally and it is not a 404. How is this possible ? The same CI have been able to create the trigger.
20:36 < bls> there's a bunch of stuff they do though that makes things painful. turning off line numbering, syntax highlighting, control character interpretation, etc will improve performance
20:37 < bls> dka: on details that sparse, it could be anything
20:37 < dka> anything?
20:38 < jeffree> yep, it was the order. I don't understand this stuff well
20:38 < dka> bls what do you mean anything?
20:38 < dka> I even test my token before the CI does it and it pass
20:39 < bls> dka: you've provided no debug information other than "it doesn't work". so it could be a typo, a misconfiguration, you could be "holding it wrong"
20:40 < bls> there's a gitlab channel on here that may be able to direct you to better triage/debugging information if you don't know how to collect it
20:41 < Yamakaja> So, any recommendation on some graphing tools? I've basically got a time-series dataset with about 0.7M datapoints spread over a couple months. Are there any good ways to visualize that?
20:41 < bls> gnuplot, GNU plotutils
20:41 < notmike> Yamakaja: python, pandas, numpy, sciply, matplotlib
20:42 < Yamakaja> bls but all that data doesn't really fit in one screen, so something interactive would probably be nice
20:42 < notmike> Seaborn
20:42 < notmike> MS paint
20:42 < dka> bls: https://paste.gnome.org/pozdu6zlm
20:42 < dka> This is the log from the CI
20:42 < dka> I have output the curl command
20:43 < Yamakaja> notmike well, i'll definitely use MS paint ... ^^
20:43 < bls> it only doesn't fit on one screen if you don't control the ranges or compress it in some way
20:44 < Yamakaja> Mhm, i'll have to think of interesting features. The raw data itself might not be too interesting
20:44 < phogg> Yamakaja: use kolourpaint, it's the same but better
20:45 < dka> bls any idea looking at my logs?
20:47 < bls> no, they're still essentially just saying "it doesn't work". you'd need to check the server logs to see if you're passing an incorrect parameter, missing a parameter, have a typo, have something disabled, have something misconfigured, have something aimed at the wrong server/project/API version
20:48 < dka> bls, I am not passing an incorrect parameter nor missing a parameter
20:48 < dka> I do not have a typo. I do not have something disabled. I do not have something misconfigured.
20:48 < dka> And we do not have wrong server
20:48 < dka> Any other idea?
20:49 < dka> maybe the nginx front proxy but gitlab did it for us
20:49 < dka> error is happening on POST
20:50 < bls> bug in your shell script? post the full thing on shellcheck.net ? that var=$(curl|jq) process you're using is going to be very error prone
20:51 < dka> bls
20:51 < dka> I thing I know why
20:52 < dka> It's because the token is being returned in json as a string with double quotes
20:52 < dka> when I print the output of the curl command and past it again, then it got removed by bash
20:52 < dka> I still need to remove the token double quote before using it
20:52 < dka> you know how to
20:52 < dka> ?
20:53 < dka> This is how I extract the token
20:53 < dka> TRIGGER_TOKEN=$(echo $JSON_RES | jq '.token')
20:53 < bls> I'd recommend not doing this in shell script first, but if you insist, just echo|jq|tr -d '"'
20:53 < dka> jq -r
20:54 < dka> does the same
20:54 < dka> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44656515/how-to-remove-double-quotes-in-jq-output-for-parsing-json-files-in-bash
20:56 < armin> worst thing about json when trying to implement a parser for it is that trailing commas are not allowed
20:56 < bls> which is why I like using a "forgiving" parser like Perl's
20:57 < bls> or preferably never let an end user at the data
20:59 < Komanda53423> sudo dd if=Win10_x64.iso of=/dev/disk1 bs=1m
20:59 < Komanda53423> used that command to create a bootable usb with windows 10
20:59 < Komanda53423> now this old laptop im trying to use it on doesnt boot from the usb key i created
20:59 < Komanda53423> the laptop runs vista
21:00 < Komanda53423> im not an expert on these thing
21:00 < Komanda53423> maybe the laptop expects a usbkey with mbr and i created one with uefi?
21:00 < RayTracer> Komanda53423: you're maybe asking in the wrong channel for on how to create a windows bootable usb
21:00 < Komanda53423> just spitting out random keywords since i have no idea what im talking about when it comes to these things
21:00 < bls> you didn't create it, whatever is in that Win10_x64.iso created it
21:01 < bls> Komanda53423: you'll probably want to be asking this in #windows
21:01 < Komanda53423> i'm creating the usb from a linux system
21:01 < bls> doesn't matter
21:01 < RayTracer> or do a web search
21:01 < Komanda53423> so the copy command might be wrong
21:01 < Komanda53423> lots of things might be wrong
21:02 < bls> you could be using rawrite.exe or win32diskimager and you'd get the exact same thing. this is an issue with the .ISO, not linux
21:02 < Komanda53423> bls
21:02 < Komanda53423> bls: or an issue with the laptop
21:10 < mawk> omg
21:10 < mawk> I'm trying to compile gksu because some embedded computing IDE requires it, then gksu requires libgksu
21:11 < storge> fun
21:11 < mawk> then inside the vanilla libgksu source several libs are missing from LDLIBS, the Makefile isn't properly generated (spaces instead of tabs)
21:11 < mawk> finally I made it to compile correctly
21:12 < mawk> what a mess
21:12 < triceratux> there are certain distros that cant deprecate gksu fast enough
21:13 < mawk> lol
21:13 < mawk> it was deprecated indeed
21:13 < mawk> that's why I had to compile it
21:14 < bls> couldn't just hack the IDE to use something different?
21:14 < bls> or create a shell script called gksu to call something else?
21:14 < mawk> lol
21:14 < mawk> didn't think about the first one
21:14 < mawk> yeah good idea
21:14 < mawk> yeah I thought about the shell script, but I wanted to give the compilation a shot first
21:15 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmm, lovely. a 362 GB ~/.xsession-errors file.
21:16 < triceratux> time to switch to wayland :P
21:17 < Psi-Jack> That was because of an error in plexmediaplayer that just massively flooded stdout/stderr with errors, and even closing it didn't completely stop the process itself, so I had 5 still running doing that.
21:17 < Psi-Jack> Sheash. LOL
21:17 < Psi-Jack> Filled up my /home partition though.
21:17 < storge> 362 GB of xsession errors. jesus wept.
21:18 < Psi-Jack> Heh
21:20 < andrei-n> Hello.  Is there a tool like git, but for ordinary files, for example the home folder?
21:20 < Psi-Jack> andrei-n: You mean, like an actual backup program?
21:20 < bls> andrei-n: if you want a tool like git, why not use git?
21:20 < Psi-Jack> Like, borgbackup?
21:21 < bls> andrei-n: and there are things built on top of git for your $HOME like gitannex and homeshick
21:22 < andrei-n> I'd like something with automatic commits.  Because in a normal folder files usually don't change.  Only a few change...
21:22 < Psi-Jack> borgbackup, nothing to commit, just deduplicating backups with style.
21:23 < Psi-Jack> Put it in a cron or systemd timer, voila, automatic.
21:24 < andrei-n> Thanks.  Has anyone tried it?  Does it work?
21:24 < Psi-Jack> I've had quite a number of people start using it and they love it.
21:24 < bls> andrei-n: then look in to gitannex, homeschick, borg, bup, rsnapshot, etc. depending on what you really want rather than how you want it to happen, one of them should work for you
21:24 < julius> hi
21:24 < delt> Hello
21:25 < delt> how do i mount a NFS share so that it doesn't block programs that try to access or check it (especially umount) when connection to the nfs server is lost?
21:25 < julius> does this look like a valid crontab entry? ***** root echo 'source /env/bin/activate; python /your/script' | /bin/bash          dont know what the "root" is for...changing to that account?
21:25 < Psi-Jack> delt: Impossible.
21:25 < andrei-n> bls, Thanks.
21:25 < delt> Psi-Jack: :/
21:26 < delt> Psi-Jack: how do i force-unmount the shares from the client when conn. is lost?
21:26 < bls> delt: you can try playing with the hard vs soft, timeo, and intr mount options, but the defaults are generally what's considered the safest from a data integrity standpoint
21:27 < Psi-Jack> delt: man umount, force and lazy.
21:27 < bls> delt: generally speaking, a lost NFS mount is going to require a reboot
21:28 < delt> :/ that sucks when using wifi
21:28 < Psi-Jack> Not /require/, but anything that had anything open that was open on the NFS volume, will remain open till a reboot occurrs.
21:28 < bls> NFS over wifi?!?
21:28 < Psi-Jack> NFS over WiFi is just ASKING for trouble.
21:28 < Psi-Jack> No, not asking, Demanding!
21:28 < ayecee> i too like to live dangerously
21:28 < bls> right, require might be too strong. most people can't seem to handle having a few zombie processes though
21:29 < bls> or io sleep hung processes
21:29 < Psi-Jack> hehe
21:29 < delt> 	-l	Lazy umount (detach filesystem)
21:29 < delt> 	-f	Force umount (i.e., unreachable NFS server)
21:30 < Psi-Jack> delt: What are you doing using NFS over WiFi, and what's opening files and doing stuff with them?
21:31 < bls> that force option just generally makes it appear the mount is gone so nothing else can try to access it. you'll likely encounter issues if you try to remount it as there'll still be parts of the system waiting on it to recover
21:31 < delt> Psi-Jack: my main (headless) server has most of my disk space, is connected to the internet and to the wifi network, and acts as a central hub for all my network
21:31 < jmadero> is this a valid rsync command: rsync -avz --progress /media/Megaman/TV_SHOWS/24/S01* /media/Backup/TV/24/ --delete
21:32 < Psi-Jack> ...
21:32 < Psi-Jack> Server... WiFi... Just stop.
21:32 < storge> lol
21:32 < Psi-Jack> jmadero: you want help with your piracy? Not happening.
21:33 < jmadero> Psi-Jack: it's not piracy buddy - I've recorded things using legal software and legal subscriptions
21:33 < jmadero> please don't jump to conclusions - I'm about as far as you can get from a copyright infringer
21:33 < jpleau> jmadero: try with --dry-run it will tell you what it would do, without actually doing it
21:33 < storge> my mission critical server can only be accessed by keyboardless port-knocking. it runs my wifi, teamviewer, and docker images.
21:33 < delt> jmadero: iirc with rsync you can't have both soure and dest as local
21:33 < jmadero> jpleau: it's weird because it seems to run but it's not finding the files
21:33 < Psi-Jack> delt: Yes you can.
21:33 < delt> source** too
21:34 < jpleau> you can't have source/dest as remote, but local yes
21:34 < delt> Psi-Jack: oh, then it's both as dest you can't
21:34 < Psi-Jack> delt: No.
21:34 < delt> both src and dest as remote i mean
21:35 < jim> jmadero, /ignore works well
21:35 < jmadero> jim: I'd rather just fix the assumption :) I'm not pirating anything, hope that's clarified and now the issue can be looked at :)
21:35 < storge> jmadero: what is as far as you can get from copyright infringer? copyright attorney?
21:36 < jmadero> storge: lol I'd prefer not to announce my profession :-b but not far from that haha
21:36 < jpleau> (hint: next time just use other directory names so that discussions don't derail..)
21:36 < storge> jmadero: ah, the Enemy.
21:36 < jmadero> jpleau: true!
21:36  * storge tips his hat
21:36 < jim> jmadero, it's just that it's an argument that doesn't belong here, and I'm trying to bring the channel temp down
21:36 < jmadero> jim: agreed, but I think we can get back on point, so as far as my rsync
21:36 < jmadero> you can use wildcards right?
21:37 < jim> man, I'm horrible at rsync
21:37 < storge> rsync has many arguments in its man pages
21:37 < jmadero> storge: yeah I looked at the man pages and nothing seems to be off from what I can tell
21:37 < delt> Psi-Jack: when mounting with -o soft, i can ctrl+c the umount process
21:38 < jim> storge, and those are the kinds of arguments that are welcome here :)
21:38 < Psi-Jack> jmadero: Technically yes, rsync can do multiple Sources, and one Dest.
21:38 < timmyrick> hi im looking for someone to help me build a poker client, this is a paid job, pm if interested
21:38 < jmadero> it's one source, not multiple, it's the files in the source I want to focus on
21:38 < bls> delt: yes, but do you understand the data integrity implications of using soft mounts?
21:38 < jmadero> I don't want to backup the entire source file, I want to focus on hits to specific file names
21:38 < Psi-Jack> jmadero: * translates to multiple
21:38 < storge> jmadero: so what's it not-doing?
21:39 < jmadero> no errors, just not seeing the files that match the pattern (pretty straight forward pattern)
21:39 < delt> bls: yeah, but nothing from the client will ever be writing to the nfs share
21:39 < storge> jmadero: so you can multiplex it with running different instances where each one is performing an incremental backup on a certain subfolder
21:39 < Psi-Jack> jmadero: echo /media/Megaman/TV_SHOWS/24/S01*   -- to see for yourself what actually that becomes.
21:39 < jmadero> Psi-Jack: good idea, one second
21:39 < delt> for that i only use nfs over a physical rj45 cable
21:40 < jmadero> Psi-Jack: sees a lot of files
21:40 < Psi-Jack> Hence, multiple sources. :)
21:40 < delt> cute_korean_girl: don't i know you from #retroarch?
21:40 < jmadero> but rsync isn't getting to those for some strange reason
21:41 < Psi-Jack> jmadero: What's that look like without --delete and with --dry-run?
21:42 < jim> jmadero, instead of referring to each file in the dir (which rsync would treat each as a separate thing), why not refer to the dir itself?
21:42 < storge> delt: please no fornicating in the channel
21:42 < jmadero> jim: because the directory itself has a lot more files in it that I don't want to backup
21:42 < jmadero> my backup drive is substantially smaller than my main drive :-b
21:42 < delt> storge: he's neither cute, korean, or a girl ;P
21:43 < jmadero> ah there is an error! ha, so much for paying attention to detail
21:44 < storge> delt: hey it's the new milennium we don't judge partners here we're just keeping the delicious steamy emoting to only a few times a day for least disruption
21:44 < jmadero> does dry run provide some kind of a log?
21:44 < Psi-Jack> jmadero: You should move each Season into its own directories.
21:44 < delt> storge: haha
21:44 < jmadero> I removed --delete and added --dry-run, nothing happened really (same result as before)
21:44  * Mead wonders what he just walked into
21:44 < storge> Psi-Jack: that's what i was trying to explain to him
21:44 < storge> Psi-Jack: run different instances in different subfolders. it's pretty easy to script up.
21:44 < jmadero> Psi-Jack: that's my second plan, I'd prefer finding out why this method isn't working
21:45 < storge> jmadero: you can tell rsync to log
21:45 < jmadero> that would be horribly time consuming and it doesn't explain why the current command isn't working
21:45 < Psi-Jack> jmadero: That should be first IMHO.
21:47 < Psi-Jack> Directory indexes grow the more unique files are put into a single directory.
21:49 < jmadero> Psi-Jack: yeah, okay, I guess I should do the right thing then and move the directory from /media to /mnt :-b
21:49 < jmadero> been on the list for 5+ years and never have gotten it done
21:50 < Mead> What linux distro would be the best to use in a living room without a keyboard/mouse to play media and games.
21:50 < Psi-Jack> Mead: any
21:50 < jmadero> Mead: what Psi-Jack said :-b
21:50 < Psi-Jack> Best is ones own personal opinion.
21:52 < Mead> I can just boot into any distro and plug into a game pad to move the curser around in the gui?
21:52 < jmadero> thoughts on whether an external with a proper label should be mounted to /media or /mnt? I've heard /media isn't the best place to mount things
21:53 < jmadero> let me rephrase, things that are mounted all the time, that /media should be for thumb drives and the like that are removed often
21:53 < bls> Mead: the same software is available on all distros. if you can do something on one, you can do it on any other
21:53 < jim> Mead, there would probably be more initial setup to do
21:53 < storge> Mead: with enough effort/time you can make a car into a truck and vice versa--likewise linux distros--so what you're really asking is 'which one is closest already to what i can configure'. unfortunately i don't know the answer.
21:53 < delt> bls: thanks, -o intr does the trick fine =)
21:54 < storge> Mead: but i think you'll be hacking a bit on whatever you choose
21:54 < bls> the *only* distro you're going to find that is 100% what you want out of the box and requires 0 tweaking, is the one you make yourself
21:54 < storge> what was that media distro? xbmc or something?
21:54 < bls> storge: kodi now
21:54 < jmadero> it's kodi now
21:54 < Psi-Jack> Heh
21:54 < storge> lol 0 tweaking @ self-made distro
21:54 < acresearch> people is there a way to monitor GPU usage?     htop only shows CPU right?
21:55 < storge> the only way you can be 100% sure that your mechanic isn't screwing you is by doing all the work yourself
21:55 < triceratux> Mead: some media enabled xubuntu lts derivative like voyager 18.04
21:55 < jmadero> acresearch: nvidia?
21:55 < jim> Mead, and, it doesn't sound like you're wanting to make a distro... umm, right?
21:55 < acresearch> jmadero: yes  P4000
21:56 < storge> jmadero Mead so xbmc is now kodi?
21:56 < jmadero> yeah
21:56 < jmadero> for quite some time
21:56 < storge> thanks
21:57 < jmadero> acresearch: apparently conky has some stuff that can do that - nvidia-settings
21:57 < acresearch> jmadero: i am on a server so only CLI
21:57 < Mead> storge: yes xbmc was renamed Kodi, no clue how why they chose to call it Kodi
21:58 < hans_> any idea why a program would do this? open("/dev/mem", O_RDWR) = 3; mmap(NULL, 262144, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_SHARED, 3, 0xf7140000) = 0x7ffff7a77000; close(3) = 0;
21:58 < jim> for one, I guess they wanted something pronouncable,,, something, where you read the name, and hear the pronounciation in your head
21:58 < jmadero> acresearch: nvidia-smi
21:58 < jmadero> acresearch: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=107117
21:58 < dka> I want to have the right condition grouped:
21:58 < dka> [ -v SSH_PRIVATE_KEY ] && which ssh-agent || ( apt-get update -y && apt-get install openssh-client -y )
21:58 < dka> is it possible to do :
21:58 < dka> [ -v SSH_PRIVATE_KEY ] && (which ssh-agent || ( apt-get update -y && apt-get install openssh-client -y ))
21:59 < dka> or how can I do to keep it in one line
21:59 < acresearch> jmadero: ahhhh interesting,  nice i see my script is being used
22:00 < jmadero> acresearch: looks like that's a pretty old post so not sure it still works
22:00 < storge> acresearch: perhaps use tmux or splitvt or something to visually partition your terminal, and in one of them dedicate it to something like 'watch -n 1 nvidia-smi'
22:00 < acresearch> jmadero: well it works
22:00 < jmadero> acresearch: excellent
22:00 < storge> (unless nvidia-smi is already live updating)
22:00 < acresearch> storge: yes that is what i plan to so
22:00 < acresearch> storge: to do
22:01 < DLange> what do you think [ -v   does, dka?
22:02 < bls> you also probably shouldn't be using which
22:02 < hans_> how can i make ("fake"?) folders/files in /sys/bus/pci/devices  ?
22:02 < dka> DLange, it check if the variable exist
22:02 < dka> -v means variable
22:03 < bls> dka: according to what?
22:03 < MarcinWieczorek> Hello, I need something to ignore repeating keyboard presses (based on time between them). Do you know a tool? If not, should I use some low level library (do you know one?) or write a kernel module?
22:03 < hans_> i'm researching a program that speaks with some hardware, and it would be very useful if i could fake some entries in /sys/bus/pci/devices to see how the program responds to them, any suggestions? when mkdir'ing, i get: mkdir: cannot create directory ‘/sys/bus/pci/devices/test’: Operation not permitted
22:03 < DLange> bls: *very* good question :)
22:05 < dka> bls according to bash 4.2 documentation
22:06 < DLange> that would be [[
22:06 < dka> DLange, https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/Bash-Conditional-Expressions.html
22:06 < bls> [ and [[ are different beasts. this is very much turning into a copy-paste shell script hacks you don't understand until it kind of resembles a REST client
22:07 < bls> dka: [[ only works in bash and has a bunch of extra features not present in the standardized/portable [
22:07 < dka> ok
22:07 < dka> Sorry I forgot that
22:07 < dka> I am correcting
22:07 < dka> How can I solve my expression in one line?
22:07 < hans_> hmm, problem seems to be that i can't make any folders in /sys/
22:08 < hans_> which is mounted as `sysfs` according to /proc/mounts
22:08 < bls> why does it have to be done in one line?
22:08 < jim> well you can use one of the separators, like ; or && or ||
22:08 < dka> bls it's gitlab-ci restriction
22:09 < dka> I have two line which are now wrong since I added my expression
22:09 < bls> you're installing software to the system via git commit hooks?
22:09 < dka> '[[ -v SSH_PRIVATE_KEY ]] && which ssh-agent || ( apt-get update -y && apt-get install openssh-client -y )'
22:09 < dka> and
22:09 < dka> '[[ -v SSH_PRIVATE_KEY ]] && [[ -f /.dockerenv ]] && echo -e "Host *\n\tStrictHostKeyChecking no\n\n" > ~/.ssh/config'
22:09 < dka> It's not a system, it's a runner, it lives for the time of the ci
22:09 < graff> you really don't need to do all of that https workaround stuff
22:09 < dka> It's the same as starting a clean docker container everytime
22:09 < live__> who do you delete the swap filesystems ?
22:09 < live__> err
22:10 < live__> i mean would i have to just unswap them first and mkswap again to get rid of old swap contents ?
22:10 < hexnewbie> hans_: Reading the docs for configfs, it sounds like it might do something like that. Having never used it, can't tell if fake devices created by configfs would appear in .sys
22:10 < jim> that first one needs a reword :)
22:11 < jim> live__, can't you do swapoff -a ; swapon -a?
22:11 < hans_> strap
22:11 < live__> ok
22:11 < live__> done
22:12 < jim> the swapoff should put everything in swap back in ram
22:12 < hans_> > It is typically mounted at /sys/kernel/config
22:13 < hans_> huh, does `swapoff -a` invoke OOM killer if needed?
22:14 < hexnewbie> hans_: Hopefully not (my memory seems to lean towards no, but I can't guarantee it, plus it may still trigger it if the system needs to swap out more stuff while you're running it)
22:14 < hans_> kk
22:14 < storge> live__: you can swapon -s before and after to see the status
22:15 < live__> ok thank you
22:15 < MarcinWieczorek> I need something to ignore repeating keyboard presses (based on time between them). Do you know a tool? If not, should I use some low level library (do you know one?) or write a kernel module?
22:16 < storge> MarcinWieczorek: like some kind of xset setting?
22:16 < jim> why not just turn the keyboard repeat off?
22:17 < MarcinWieczorek> It's not repeat, the key bounces like in physical switches when there's no capacitor or interval.
22:18 < MarcinWieczorek> It's press, release, press, release in a very short time
22:18 < MarcinWieczorek> storge: xset supports only long press, no?
22:18 < live__> but swapoff does not clear the contents does it ?
22:20 < jim> live__, maybe not, but I don't think a swapon after the swapoff would use the old (pre-swapoff) contents
22:20 < DLange> there is a bounce key option in (I think) KDE accessibility settings
22:21 < DLange> that helps to suppress repeated keys from people that have a hard time hitting a key only once
22:22 < live__> ok thank you jim
22:23 < MarcinWieczorek> DLange: thanks, I'll try to find the code for it
22:23 < jim> live__, well does that actually work? if not, I guess you could mkswap after you swapoff
22:24 < live__> yes jim but it's annoying i get new uuids which i have to feed to /etc/fstab.....
22:25 < storge> live__: how often do you have to do this?
22:25 < jim> so swapoff makes new uuids? or the mkswap does?
22:25 < live__> i hope not often
22:25 < live__> mkswap does
22:25 < storge> mkswap does
22:26 < jim> is it possble to tell mkswap not to do that?
22:26 < storge> easier might be to swapon -f
22:27 < storge> if it works as i think, it clears the swap space if it isn't exactly = to current kern page size
22:27 < storge> i've never used it though, i just read about it while configuring my zram
22:28 < storge> as i understood it, mkswap actually makes a new swap device, but swapon -f is similar without actually creating a new space
22:30 < storge> now i just forget /swap and use a zram block per core, made static in fstab, and i just swapoff -a && swapon -a if i really need to clear everything
22:30 < hans_> was running `cat /dev/mem | strings | more`, found this: BootSector Write !! VIRUS: Continue (Y/N)?
22:30 < hans_> any idea what that's about?
22:31 < storge> i haven't used /swap since about 2014 or so, never had an issue for my uses
22:31 < DLange> hans_: a message that your BIOS could display in case that happens
22:31 < DLange> (and you run DOS)
22:48 < zapotah> https://i.imgur.com/4rZqThs.jpg
22:48 < RayTracer> Cheers! <3 Caipi
22:49 < syb0rg> zapotah, good advice
22:49 < syb0rg> it also gives your liver a workout, making it stronger in the long run
22:50 < RayTracer> I'm even making it healthier with the vitamines from the lemons.
22:56 < cmj> swapiness
23:03 < MarcinWieczorek> DLange: Found it! https://faculty.missouri.edu/~stephen/software/#xkbset
23:03 < DLange> nice
23:04 < stephen> lol that pinged me
23:05 < syb0rg> well that is what you get for coming in here with a person's name like a normie stephen
23:05 < syb0rg> :-)
23:06 < MarcinWieczorek> stephen: Is that actually you?
23:06 < MarcinWieczorek> haha
23:09 < stephen> lol
23:09 < stephen> I'm not the IrcOp, no.
23:09 < stephen> He graciously relenquished the nick per network rules when I requested years ago
23:16 < nname> lag? why is my text not appearing? ._.
23:16 < nname> take 2: /home/user/Templates <-- this is the nautilus templates folder. can I create a file like "notes.txt" in here, and somehow have it created with a timestamp as its content, or in its name, etc. ?
23:16 < nname> like notes-$(date).txt or something?
23:17 < nname> or if someone can tell me this isn't possible, that would be cool too.
23:18 < storge> touch
23:19 < storge> man touch, -d option
23:19 < nname> storge, I am looking to include the date in the filename instead.
23:20 < nname> notes-1527456006.txt and such
23:21 < DLange> nname: look for nautilus-actions (Debian / Ubuntu), it can script - well - actions and that includes creating such files
23:22 < nname> wait, now that i think, how do pipe date +%s to touch?
23:22 < MarcinWieczorek> touch `date '+%s'`
23:22 < zapotah> nname: you script that shit
23:23 < nname> zapotah, i mean yeah, i can create a .sh and throw it under my bin, but i was looking for a nautilus solution that appears in the right click menu
23:23 < nname> DLange's solution seems decent, so thanks
23:23 < storge> touch "foo-$(date)"
23:24 < storge> that's all you need. edit date string as you would date command args
23:26 < brutser> when i run livecd-creator, i receive several errors -> first i like to know about this error and how to enable logging: No '/dev/log' or 'logger' included for syslog logging
23:27 < nname> ok, thanks everyone. that solves all my problems
23:44 < acresearch> hello people i am on antergos linux and i am trying to open GIMP which fails to open, what can i do to make it work?
23:45 < MarcinWieczorek> acresearch: Try to open it from the console and look for errors in there
23:45 < acresearch> MarcinWieczorek: gimp: error while loading shared libraries: libgegl-0.4.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
23:45 < MarcinWieczorek> acresearch: update
23:45 < sauvin> acresearch, how did you install it?
23:46 < acresearch> sauvin: pacmsn -S
23:46 < MarcinWieczorek> acresearch: use pacman -Syu now then
23:47 < BCMM> acresearch: how did you install gimp?
23:47 < sauvin> Lag, much? :D
23:47 < MarcinWieczorek> ^
23:47 < acresearch> MarcinWieczorek: i cannot update : https://www.hastebin.com/nejuzifide.sql
23:47 < BCMM> acresearch: your package manager *shouldn't* let you install gimp without libgegl...
23:47 < acresearch> BCMM: sudo pacman -S gimp
23:47 < storge> sudo pacman
23:47 < MarcinWieczorek> acresearch: remove it manually, it's a bug from some weeks ago
23:47 < MarcinWieczorek> rm /usr/lib/libmozjs-52.so.0
23:48 < sauvin> BCMM, not all package managers are equal.
23:48 < acresearch> MarcinWieczorek: now update?
23:48 < MarcinWieczorek> yes
23:48 < storge> given sudo, i'm guessing apt is somewhere on this system
23:48 < storge> on that*
23:48 < MarcinWieczorek> god, it's not
23:49 < sauvin> sudo does not necessarily imply deb.
23:49 < MarcinWieczorek> ^
23:49 < BCMM> storge: uh. what?
23:49 < storge> not necessarily, but i'm guessing it's likely
23:49 < voidcrafted> Hi
23:49 < BCMM> please don't encourage people to try and use multiple package managers on the same system
23:49 < MarcinWieczorek> You're guessing wrong, sudo is basically everywhere. Still apt is not there
23:49 < voidcrafted> I have a kinda noob question
23:49 < sauvin> Brave guess. many people on all sorts of different platforms appreciate sudo for its granularity.
23:49 < MarcinWieczorek> voidcrafted: then ask it
23:50 < voidcrafted> I managed to accidentally remove myself from sudo
23:50 < storge> hehe
23:50 < voidcrafted> And root password is disabled
23:50 < sauvin> voidcrafted, can you log into root?
23:50 < BCMM> voidcrafted: by editing the sudoers file or by removing your user from a group?
23:50 < voidcrafted> Removing from a group
23:50 < voidcrafted> I followed an online guide
23:50 < sauvin> Oh, of course.
23:50 < voidcrafted> And I managed to get a root bash shell with my hdd mounted as read only
23:51 < MarcinWieczorek> voidcrafted: chroot from an live cd/usb
23:51 < MarcinWieczorek> why read only?
23:51 < voidcrafted> But I’m not sure how I can mount it as rw
23:51 < voidcrafted> So I can edit stuff and fix it
23:51 < voidcrafted> *it
23:51 < voidcrafted> I’m running Solus btw
23:51 < MarcinWieczorek> voidcrafted: how did you mount it ro?
23:51 < acresearch> ok gimp works now thanks MarcinWieczorek BCMM sauvin :-)
23:51 < revel> MarcinWieczorek: Since storage is generally mounted ro by the kernel and then mounted rw later on by init.
23:52 < voidcrafted> mount /dev/sda2 /mnt
23:52 < revel> Remounted rw later on, that is.
23:52 < BCMM> voidcrafted: mount -o remount,rw /
23:52 < BCMM> (or whatever mount point instead of /)
23:52 < voidcrafted> Oh, I’ll try that thanks
23:52 < revel> So if you do init=/bin/bash, you'll end up with a ro rootfs.
23:52 < voidcrafted> Yeah, I did that
23:52 < BCMM> (i was guessing that you got root shell+readonly by fiddling with the init but that's not right i see now)
23:52 < voidcrafted> That’s how I got a shell
23:52 < MarcinWieczorek> soo mount used ro by default? weird
23:53 < voidcrafted> Mhm
23:53 < Random832> the kernel mounts the root filesystem readonly
23:53 < revel> ^
23:53 < BCMM> voidcrafted: yeah, are you saying you ran exactly "mount /dev/sda2 /mnt" and got readonly?
23:53 < Random832> because it's expected that you'll need to run fsck
23:53 < MarcinWieczorek> Wait, but he did that from other OS
23:53 < voidcrafted> Yup
23:53 < voidcrafted> Nope I replaced unit with hash MarcinWieczorek
23:53 < BCMM> voidcrafted: what filesystem? anything interesting in dmesg when you mounted it?
23:53 < voidcrafted> *init
23:53 < storge> Random832: ah, thanks that explains that for me
23:54 < voidcrafted> Uh I assume it’s ext, just a default install of Solus
23:54 < BCMM> well now i'm lost... you did init=/bin/sh, but then you still had to mount something manually?
23:54 < voidcrafted> And do I just run `dmesg` to get that? Nothing popped up when I ran the command, no output etc
23:54 < voidcrafted> Yeah
23:55 < MarcinWieczorek> So I'd suggest any live distro, mount it, chroot it, passwd it.
23:55 < storge> ^
23:55 < BCMM> ^
23:55 < ayecee> >
23:55 < fendur> V
23:56 < voidcrafted> Okay. How do I chroot it (sorry D:)
23:56 < BCMM> well, passwd if you want to log in to the root account. add yourself back to the group if you want it back how it was
23:56 < fendur> the loop was not completed. This is bad.
23:56 < BCMM> voidcrafted: chroot /mnt/whatever /bin/sh
23:56 < voidcrafted> Ooo ok thanks
23:56 < MarcinWieczorek> BCMM: oh yeah, whatever works. Even visudo or something
23:57 < BCMM> voidcrafted: chrooting gives you new shell that thinks its root directory is /mnt/whatever
23:57 < voidcrafted> I’ll do it in the morning, thanks guys
23:57 < MarcinWieczorek> np\
23:58 < BCMM> so if you run passwd or usermod or whatever, it'll edit /mnt/whatever/etc/group instead of /etc/group on the liveCD
23:58 < voidcrafted> Mhm
23:58 < voidcrafted> I’ve only ever seen chroot in the context of my chrome book
23:58 < BCMM> (you could just edit the group file manually, but chroot lets you use standard tools and not have to learn the syntax of the file and all that)
23:59 < voidcrafted> I’m a nodejs dev, I switched to Ubuntu about a month and a half ago and now Solus a few weeks ago, it’s much better than windows :D
23:59 < voidcrafted> Thanks all
--- Log closed Mon May 28 00:00:19 2018