--- Log opened Mon May 28 00:00:19 2018
--- Day changed Mon May 28 2018
00:00 < cmj> @lwnnet - The FBI tells everybody to reboot their router
00:00 < cmj> eesh
00:01 < cmj> 'cyber actors' https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA18-145A
00:04 < saltlake> http://dpaste.com/260DTD6
00:04 < saltlake> The requested URL /user was not found on this server.
00:04 < saltlake> for http://localhost/user
00:04 < saltlake> Why this error?
00:05 < Random832> because it doesn't exist
00:05 < Random832> why do you think it exists
00:05 < saltlake> "http://localhost/actions/login.php" this exists
00:05 < MarcinWieczorek> saltlake: mod_rewrite enabled in apache config?
00:06 < saltlake> MarcinWieczorek: How can I check?
00:07 < MarcinWieczorek> cat /etc/whereveritis/httpd.conf|grep rewrite
00:08 < cmj> a2enmod rewrite
00:09 < saltlake> a2enmod rewrite = Module rewrite already enabled
00:09 < saltlake> but php -m doesn't show rewrite
00:13 < Psi-Jack> MarcinWieczorek: Replace keyboard.
00:14 < MarcinWieczorek> What
00:15 < BCMM> saltlake: i think you're confusing php modules and apache modules there...
00:18 < Psi-Jack> MarcinWieczorek: my answer to your earlier keyboard issue. You have a broken keyboard by the sounds of it so replace it...
00:19 < Psi-Jack> Not try to bandaid it with horrible hacks.
00:19 < MarcinWieczorek> Psi-Jack: I guess I could replace a switch first, and even before that look for some bad solders and other issues...
00:20 < MarcinWieczorek> Why change it if a simple fix works just fine?
00:20 < lupine> because consumerism
00:20 < lupine> our entire economy depends on you doing so
00:20 < MarcinWieczorek> Also, software debouncing is one of the most common methods
00:20 < Psi-Jack> Sure if you are capable of fixing it at the hardware level... Do that.
00:20 < MarcinWieczorek> Sure I am, I would have to buy a switch off ebay first and wait a month for it
00:21 < Psi-Jack> Man of a keyboard was bouncing for me I'd fix it directly not work around it.
00:21 < Psi-Jack> Why eBay?
00:21 < djph> Psi-Jack: set it on fire and throw it out the window?
00:21 < Psi-Jack> Find the actual part number and get that
00:22 < MarcinWieczorek> Because I can buy many for almost zero price and replace them whenever I want? I do that with my mouse, revived it 3 times already
00:22 < Psi-Jack> Yeah but..
00:23 < Psi-Jack> You can usually but hundreds more for cheap when you get the part number and get just that.
00:23 < MarcinWieczorek> Why not start a keyboard factory so I can throw my current one outta the window every weekend? Cmon, stick to the KISS rule
00:24 < Psi-Jack> ...
00:24 < Psi-Jack> Sure... Umm, whatever. I repair things regularly, and I get schematics for things to get part numbers and replacement parts accordingly.
00:26 < MarcinWieczorek> Not worth the effort. I fix things using the easiest way. Those times are gone when you could buy something from the russians and it would last 20 years just to be fixed and work 20 next
00:26 < MarcinWieczorek> Your repaired thing will fail anyway, because everything is designed to fail
00:26 < MarcinWieczorek> So will mine, but I put less effort into it
00:27 < Psi-Jack> ... OKay. Well, good luck with that logic.
00:31 < cmj> weird
00:32 < zapotah> MarcinWieczorek: that is one of the most misguided and stupidly interpreted views on how shit works that ive seen in a while
00:32 < Psi-Jack> heh
00:32 < zapotah> MarcinWieczorek: things are complex, you need complex tools to fix them
00:32 < zapotah> you _can_
00:32 < cmj> look, even humans were designed to fail; we all die
00:33 < zapotah> but complaining how you cant re-solder a transistor on a silicon chip is just retarded
00:33 < MarcinWieczorek> Who complained on that?
00:33 < [R]> does anyone know a simple/easy way to make a local deb repo?
00:33 < zapotah> MarcinWieczorek: you basically did, its an analogy
00:34 < cmj> [R]: is there some rsync project for that?
00:34 < MarcinWieczorek> I did not. I said I can resolder a 3 pin switch any time I wish, but I prefer simple solutions
00:34 < [R]> cmj: not a mirror...
00:34 < cmj> ah
00:34  * triceratux waves his magic wand & turns [R] into a deb repo
00:34 < zapotah> MarcinWieczorek: yet you want a wire-phone to transfer data eh?
00:34 < Psi-Jack> [R]: Yeah, I haven't looked into it yet myself.
00:35 < [R]> i've tried a few
00:35 < MarcinWieczorek> what
00:35 < [R]> they all seemed too complicated
00:35 < Psi-Jack> I don't have any custom .deb I want to maintain yet, but it's always been overly complicated to do repos in Debian, one of the reasons I hate it.
00:36 < zapotah> am i making the analogies too abstract?
00:36 < MarcinWieczorek> yeah
00:36 < zapotah> i guess so
00:36 < zapotah> whatever
00:37 < MarcinWieczorek> I can find as many analogies if you want. Have you ever had a mechanical watch? Would you rather tweak it a bit to me more accurate or buy a new one?
00:38 < cmj> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Personal shrug
00:38 < zapotah> chips are not mechanical watches
00:38 < zapotah> they are many orders of magnitudes more complex
00:38 < cmj> i should do that as i build kernels all the time
00:39 < cmj> speaking of which
00:39 < MarcinWieczorek> *that's an analogy*
00:39 < storge> cmj: me too, thanks for the link
00:39 < zapotah> MarcinWieczorek: youre using the analogy the wrong way around
00:40 < mikem1> I have used OS X / macOS for several years now after having used Linux (predominantly Fedora Core / Fedora and some Ubuntu) for *years*.  I'm looking to get myself back onto Linux, as a daily use operating system.  What distros should I be considering?
00:40 < zapotah> MarcinWieczorek: you complained that things are not tweakable or fixable
00:40 < Psi-Jack> zapotah: Best to just leave it alone. :)
00:40 < [R]> mikem1: distrowatch has a list of major dists
00:40 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: i guess so...
00:40 < MarcinWieczorek> I think we all agree on this one
00:40 < Psi-Jack> [R]: If you do find a reasonable method, I might be curious to know about it.
00:40 < cmj> 4.17.0-rc7
00:41 < storge> cmj: yep
00:41 < mikem1> I hadn't even heard of Manjaro
00:41 < Psi-Jack> Bleh, you don't want to.
00:41 < MarcinWieczorek> ^
00:41 < storge> cmj: but for about a year or so i've just been running latest stable--which is still often enough
00:42 < saltlake> a2enmod shows rewrite, is it enabled then?
00:42 < cmj> i build weekly
00:42 < storge> 4.16.12-storge-T520
00:42 < cmj> Linux snoog 4.17.0-rc6-cmj-04 #4 SMP PREEMPT Fri May 25 12:56:57 PDT 2018 x86_64 GNU/Linux
00:42 < cmj> heh
00:42 < cmj> becuase yes
00:43 < storge> kinda been my habit since about 3.0 because yes reasons
00:43 < cmj> git pull, build deb, install
00:43 < cmj> pretty simple shit
00:43 < storge> i still do it the old generic way since i have it scripted
00:43 < MarcinWieczorek> cmj: do you use ccache or something?
00:43 < storge> ccache is nice yes
00:43 < cmj> i use ccache but it still takes time
00:44 < storge> cmj: i took the time to localmodconfig and ever since then it's fast
00:44 < cmj> it is also very bloated so approx 70-80mins
00:44 < cmj> time make -j6 bindeb-pkg
00:45 < storge> i only have a laptop so i got a usb multiplexer and plugged in my gps and assorted whatnots, then localmodconfig, then menuconfig to make sure. now it's about 2 or 3 minutes
00:45 < [R]> wtf is a 'usb multiplexer'... rofl
00:46 < storge> [R]: shorthand for a dongle that lets you plug in 6 devices
00:46 < [R]> you mean a hub?
00:46 < [R]> rofl
00:46 < MarcinWieczorek> a hub?
00:46 < Pentode> longhand? ;p
00:46 < storge> it's a hub with onboard switches, so i just leave several things plugged in and i only power what i need
00:47 < storge> but it was essential for a good localmodconfig
00:47 < storge> or lets say a fast localmodconfig
00:47 < storge> 4.7M May 27 15:37 vmlinuz-4.16.12-storge-T520
00:47 < [R]> EXTREME
00:48 < storge> cmj: i'm guessing a generic one nowadays would be about 15M or so, not sure
00:48 < [R]> OH NO
00:48 < [R]> FIFTEEN MB
00:48 < [R]> not that
00:48 < storge> not that it's too related, but it does make the make last 2 or 3 minutes instead of over 30
00:48 < [R]> yeah, i know i compile my kerenl 10 times a day
00:49 < storge> [R]: dear troll, i'm not talking to you, so feel free to gesticulate wildly to no effect :)
00:49 < iflema> a huge kernel is a bitch to boot.... fuk that
00:49 < storge> cmj: but i bet from 70-80 minutes you could get it to 10 or so
00:49 < [R]> iflema: yeah, i hate having to type in all those bytes
00:49 < saltlake> RewriteRule "^/user" "http://localhost/actions/login.php" [R,L]
00:49 < storge> lol you guys
00:49 < iflema> [R]: no... waiting for all those dots...
00:50 < saltlake> Not Found
00:50 < saltlake> The requested URL /user was not found on this server.
00:50 < saltlake> for http://localhost/user
00:50 < storge> scornful of others' opinions :) you weakstick trolls
00:50 < saltlake> http://localhost/actions/login.php this exists
00:50 < MarcinWieczorek> saltlake: try ^user/$ or something
00:50 < djph> saltlake: localhost/~user  *usually*
00:52 < cmj> yeah these are nowhere near vanilla, storge
00:53 < cmj> not as bloaty as debian default however
00:54 < cmj> still tons of modules to take some time
00:55 < cmj> bloat is the wrong word. i don't build everything…
00:57 < saltlake> djph: What ~user what is ~ here?
00:57 < qrvpzvb> So, apparently LVM2 can do RAID as well... is there any reason to use mdadm?
00:57 < qrvpzvb> just a tilde
00:57 < [R]> qrvpzvb: what do you mean "can do raid"
00:58  * storge senses [R]'s Pedant-O-Meter about to beep
00:58 < qrvpzvb> [R]: like, you can give it 5 devices directly and it'll do the RAID6 or whatever
00:58 < [R]> qrvpzvb: well if youre happy with its feature set, then go for it
00:58 < [R]> if you're unhappy with the "or whatever"
00:58 < [R]> then use mdadm
00:59 < qrvpzvb> yes, thank you very much...
00:59 < dka> I am doing this like in a countinous integration in a yaml file: `- '[[ $SSH_PRIVATE_KEY ]] && sonar-scanner -Dsonar.host.url="${SONAR_URL}" -Dsonar.login="${SONAR_LOGIN}" -Dsonar.branch="${CI_COMMIT_REF_NAME}" -Dsonar.projectVersion="${SONAR_VERSION}"'`, the CI fail, but the environment SSH_PRIVATE_KEY is not declared (verified with declare -p) why is it failing? I expect  to just not trigger the test.
01:00 < qrvpzvb> if I already knew the answer to my question I wouldn't be asking
01:00 < [R]> dka: dka put || true at the end
01:00 < storge> qrvpzvb: you're going to have to explain it as if to a 6 year old to earn a good answer; ignore the humiliation
01:01 < dka> [R] is replacing if then  by if then else is the solution, can I get the explanation?
01:01 < [R]> dka: the initial test failed
01:01 < [R]> hence the failure
01:03 < saltlake> RewriteRule "^/user" "http://localhost/actions/login.php" [R,L]
01:03 < saltlake> http://localhost/actions/login.php this exists
01:03 < saltlake> The requested URL /user was not found on this server. for http://localhost/user
01:03 < saltlake> why this error?
01:03 < saltlake> RewriteRule "^/user" "http://localhost/actions/login.php" [R,L] is in .htaccess of the project root directory
01:04 < ||JD||> saltlake: you should be asking in #httpd
01:05 < ||JD||> anyway, make sure you have RewriteEngine On before the rewrite rule, also remove the quotes, and finally make the paths relative unless you have a good reason to make them absolute
01:07 < saltlake> ||JD||: RewriteEngine On
01:07 < saltlake> RewriteRule ^/user http://localhost/actions/login.php [R,L]
01:09 < qrvpzvb> lvm2 can do software raid, using the same kernel infrastructure as mdadm
01:14 < jim> qrvpzvb, well, you can put lvm physical volumes on a software raid
01:14 < n-iCe> hi
01:14 < qrvpzvb> sure you can, but you can simplify your setup by letting lvm do that
01:14 < jim> hi
01:15 < jim> dunno how lvm does raid... that must be newer
01:16 < qrvpzvb> man lvmraid
01:16 < jim> let's see if I have that
01:16 < qrvpzvb> but I did see people on the internet complaining about its stability
01:17 < jim> well lvm without raid has lasted me probably 20 years
01:19 < zapotah> mdraid raid5 has failed me multiple times in propably 10 years :3
01:20 < zapotah> not complete data-loss ofc
01:20 < qrvpzvb> how then?
01:21 < Psi-Jack> zapotah: "ofc" Bzz ;)
01:22 < zapotah> qrvpzvb: the obvious answer is through something that does checksumming, but on linux, there are no actually stable solutions for local storage (no, ZoL is not stable by any measure)
01:22 < zapotah> Psi-Jack: hah, indeed
01:23 < zapotah> but any data loss is unacceptable in my book tbh
01:23 < zapotah> in this day and age anyway
01:23 < qrvpzvb> I meant how has it failed you?
01:23 < zapotah> qrvpzvb: corrupted data
01:24 < qrvpzvb> due to hardware failure?
01:24 < zapotah> hardware failure, power failure, you name it
01:24 < zapotah> never complete loss, but loss regardless
01:25 < Azrael_-> hi
01:25 < Azrael_-> is it possible to log the communication which is being sent using a socket-file?
01:26 < qrvpzvb> well, I'l be doing raid1+0 anyways
01:26 < qrvpzvb> it's the most extensible
01:26 < zapotah> qrvpzvb: you wont be protected from corruption with mdraid or lvm there either
01:27 < qrvpzvb> there aren't many ways to secure against that
01:27 < qrvpzvb> btrfs is...
01:28 < qrvpzvb> let's say, new
01:28 < zapotah> as i said, there arent any stable solutions :3
01:28 < saltlake> what is btrfs for?
01:28 < jim> probably a good hardware raid card is gonna be the best
01:28 < zapotah> jim: no hardware raid i know does any data integrity checking
01:29 < qrvpzvb> and it's expensive
01:29 < zapotah> only for poor people
01:29 < jim> yrp
01:29 < zapotah> :3
01:35 < qrvpzvb> however, why do you say that ZoL is not stable zapotah ?
01:36 < Aph3x-WL> btrfs; for when you really hate your data
01:37 < epicmetal> Aph3x-WL: isn't it stable now?
01:38 < Aph3x-WL> that depends on your definition of stable
01:38 < Aph3x-WL> i wouldn't use it for anything i care about
01:38 < Aph3x-WL> redhat dropped support for it
01:40 < [R]> drop it like it's hot
01:40 < [R]> plus there's the whole licensing issue
01:40 < qrvpzvb> a licensing issue with btrfs?
01:41 < [R]> i thought we were talking about zfs on linux
01:41 < qrvpzvb> first I've heard of that
01:41 < qrvpzvb> oh, ok
01:41 < epicmetal> Aph3x-WL: ah, didn't know that. I don't use btrfs but the scrubbing feature looked interesting and I was planning to test it
01:41 < [R]> do they have fsck for btrfs yet?
01:41 < epicmetal> :\
01:43 < qrvpzvb> their wiki talks of a btrfs check feature
01:44 < cmj> yeah
01:44 < cmj> and a heatmap feature too, which is silly for the small partition i have
01:44 < cmj> btrfsck
02:11 < the_document> is an initrd basically an archive with kernel modules?
02:11 < [R]> its a cpio file with scripts and files
02:11 < [R]> it might have kernel moduels
02:17 < the_document> [R]: any way to build it into kernel?
02:17 < [R]> yeah, when you commpile the kernel, you can give ita list of files to statically compile in
02:18 < the_document> can I use wildcards?
02:18 < cmj> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-initrd/index.html
02:18 < the_document> because  External firmware blobs to build into the kernel binary  takes only 1 item at a time whch is painfull
02:20 < [R]> i think you have to give it a direstory actually
02:20 < [R]> you should check the documetantion
02:20 < cmj> if you're on a debian derivitave they have scripts for this
02:24 < the_document> why isn't bluetooth adapter detected when dmest says firmware was loaded?  https://paste.pound-python.org/show/PAgFDnFpI2womXpi9GXm/
02:25 < [R]> sure looks like the adapter was detected
02:25 < [R]> hci0
02:26 < the_document> but bluetooth devid says no adapters
02:26 < the_document> from kde
02:26 < [R]> "bluetooth devid"?
02:26 < the_document> bluetooth devil
02:26 < [R]> whats that
02:27 < the_document> kde-plasma/bluedevil
02:27 < [R]> sounds like some stupid crappy gui
02:27 < [R]> what do the command line tools say
02:27 < the_document> look, /dev/hci0 does not exist
02:28 < the_document> its gui
02:28 < [R]> who said there was a /dev/hci0?
02:28 < the_document> *its NOT gui
02:28 < the_document> derp
02:28 < the_document> ok what cli?
02:28 < the_document> I have bluez also
02:28 < [R]> there some hci tools
02:29 < the_document> kde-plasma/bluedevil finds my adapater in ubuntu just not in my distro
02:31 < [R]> "in my distro"?
02:31 < the_document> distro i use
02:31 < [R]> what distro do you use?
02:31 < the_document> larry the cow
02:31 < [R]> never heard of it
02:31 < the_document> gentoo
02:32 < [R]> was that so difficult?
02:32 < the_document> no
02:32 < the_document> but same goes for FP reader dmest finds firmware gui says no hardware found
02:33 < [R]> not sure what "fp reader" is but...
02:33 < [R]> [05:27:18] <[R]> sounds like some stupid crappy gui
02:33 < the_document> finger print reader
02:34 < the_document> kde makes defacto stuff as far as guis
02:34 < [R]> huh?
02:34 < the_document> they've been making guis for a while
02:35 < [R]> ok... and?
02:35 < [R]> so has microsoft
02:35 < [R]> is there a point?
02:35 < the_document> ok is there a cli bluetooth app?
02:35 < [R]> as i said
02:35 < the_document> permitting scanning/pariting/sending files
02:35 < [R]> [05:28:57] <[R]> there some hci tools
02:36 < the_document> which in particular?
02:36 < [R]> i'm sure you can find documetnation on it
02:41 < storge> bluez, bluez-hcidump, bluez-test-tools, bluez-tools ....these are debian names but your distro likely has analogous packages
02:50 < infinisil> storge: He gone already
02:50 < infinisil> Kids these days
02:51 < storge> oh well
02:51 < [R]> lol
02:58 < jnt> does anyone here use NFSv4 with kerberos and idmapd? I got kerberos authentication and encryption to work, but I have no idea how idmapd is supposed to work or how to configure it correctly. currently eveerything is owned by nobody when I mount it.
03:04 < [R]> anything in syslog?
03:04 < [R]> https://askubuntu.com/questions/524641/file-permissions-on-nfs-mount-show-up-as-nobody-after-upgrading-to-14-04
03:05 < jnt> [rpc.idmapd] nfsdopenone: Opening /proc/net/rpc/nfs4.nametoid/channel failed: errno 2 (No such file or directory)
03:05 < jnt> after starting idmapd
03:05 < [R]> sounds ike youre missing something in the kernel if thats not there
03:07 < n-iCe> xfce4-panel -r
03:08 < jnt> [R]: thats no problem, I can compile a new kernel, but I have no idea which option i need to enable.
03:09 < [R]> i'd say something under the rpc/nfs options
03:09 < [R]> you could just grep for nametoid and see what driver has that, and then enable the option that provides that
03:09 < saltlake> hi
03:13 < jnt> [R]: only match is in fs/nfsd/nfsv4idmap.c, but I shouldn't need that on a client, right?
03:13 < [R]> well if tahts the only match...
03:16 < storge> zgrep -i nfs /proc/config.gz
03:16 < storge> or: grep -i nfs /boot/config-$(uname -r)
03:18 < _unreal_> I'm torn should I install the latest fedora or ubuntu LTS on my core2quad q6600?
03:18 < [R]> _unreal_: flip a coin
03:19 < storge> _unreal_: have a tournament
03:19 < _unreal_> I did, it landed on its side, thats why I'm here
03:19 < _unreal_> tournament?
03:19 < [R]> echo $(($RANDOM%2))
03:19 < [R]> 0 is fedora, 1 is ubuntu
03:19  * storge explains "_unreal_"... "tournament" ... unreal tournament
03:19 < storge> it tested funny with focus groups
03:21 < storge> how about one in the other?
03:21 < _unreal_> storge, I'm going to play stupid..... I dont get it
03:21 < storge> https://www.epicgames.com/unrealtournament/
03:21 < jnt> storge: https://bpaste.net/show/52c3f7101a4f
03:23 < _unreal_> you know saddly I got my handle from the game? years ago......
03:23 < _unreal_> I have never played the game all the way through
03:23  * storge stares at you
03:23 < storge> jnt: i don't know for sure but maybe it's the # CONFIG_NFSD is not set should be =m, i'm still looking
03:23 < [R]> _unreal_: I give you a 0/10 for your trolling abilities... maybe try again next time
03:24 < storge> i never played it at all. you named yourself for it. my reference goes unnoticed. i slit my wrists.
03:25 < ayecee> remember, across for attention, along for results
03:25 < storge> lol
03:25 < storge> that was good
03:27 < jnt> storge: well, I'll try enabling it, the server has it enabled of course, but I doubt that error is actually the problem, i just saw some worse looking warnings in the servers log.
03:27 < storge> jnt: on a debian page they're marking an error as [SOLVED] with your error involved. Not sure if it's the same problem, i didn't see your whole description http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=111229
03:34 < promach> Why ?
03:34 < promach> For nautilus file manager problem, I am having these error https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/FKTpVqDTfj/ and https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/KvxfpFcjBQ/
03:35 < dannylee> what goes up must come down
03:35 < dannylee> satellites
03:36 < ayecee> satellites come down. they just keep missing the ground.
03:36 < dannylee> ya man
03:39 < dannylee> i thing that i came across the berlin wall when i was just four years old...i just dont know my real parents..but florida is great///
03:39 < jim> promach, those are some pretty long listings...
03:40 < promach> jim: strace nautilus     just hangs at some polling command
03:40 < jim> kinda hard to tell which lines are error messages and which are just normal operation
03:40 < promach> jim: see the last line of that strace log
03:40 < storge> what was the actual originally noticed error/symptom?
03:40 < promach> storge: nautils won't open
03:41 < storge> nothing helpful when starting it from command prompt
03:41 < storge> ?
03:42 < dannylee> ok i,m just stupid
03:42 < promach> what ? GUI clicking won't open nautilus as well
03:43 < storge> promach: what i mean is: sometimes when you try running something from the prompt you get a helpful error message or some hint
03:43 < [R]> you know... sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't
03:43 < storge> [R]: you're old quoting a Mounds commercial
03:44 < dannylee> sorry i think that i was adopted..i came across the berlin wall when i was just 4..i came across in a sewer pipe...
03:44 < storge> dannylee: my family escaped the wall through the sewers too
03:45 < dannylee> but i love my parent..
03:45 < dannylee> they both died..they where really old
03:46 < storge> they went to go swim it but saw a police boat laying barbed wire just under the water, so the next day they all acted like they were going to work/school/whatever and met up at a sewer entrance, and they came through that way. my grandma almost couldn't fit through the bars in one of the tunnels
03:47 < Psi-Jack> TMI?
03:48 < dannylee> its true
03:48 < storge> they walked away from successful radio and salt businesses, but they went on to live in west berlin
03:49 < promach> jim: do you have any idea what happen to nautilus ?
03:56 < snuggie> quiet channel :(
03:59 < ayecee> shh
04:11 < rascul> it
04:11 < rascul> is linuxing time!
04:12 < ayecee> we put linux in your linux so you can linux while you linux
04:13 < rascul> i linux so hard
04:13 < ayecee> my linux is ready
04:13 < rascul> linux like it's 1999
04:13 < rascul> actually, don't
04:13 < rascul> linux is a bunch better nowadays
04:14 < ayecee> come on, what could be better than manually calculating modelines
04:14 < rascul> not manually calculating modelines
04:14 < ayecee> touche\
04:15 < the_document> will ipv6 connections not work if sit0 is removed?
04:15 < rascul> what is sit0?
04:20 < rascul> i guess i'll never know what sit0 is :(
04:21 < ayecee> an ipv6 interface :)
04:21 < rascul> oh
04:21 < iflema> dont you hate it when you go and upgrade and dont look at anything an it stop part way through with no drive space and you gotta link shit to some other shit so you can finish upgrading your shit?
04:21 < ayecee> for tunnelling ipv6 over ipv4
04:21 < rascul> seems like an easy way to have determined the answer to that sit0 question, then
04:22 < rascul> iflema that does sound annoying
04:22 < ayecee> it's not used if you're not tunneling
04:24 < iflema> fully... i gotta remove this soft link when its done... ugh
04:24 < [R]> ayecee: you're mom is an ipv6 interface
04:24 < ayecee> mum*
04:25 < syb0rg> your mom is compatible with promiscous mode
04:26 < storge> someone's mom is really into linux
04:44 < bismilah> !ops I'm an idiot
04:45 < jim> bismilah, what?
04:46 < bismilah> !ops I'm an idiot.
04:46 < bismilah> jim: peek-a-boo!
04:47 < bismilah> buffer 1
04:47 < bismilah> gr.
04:47 < jim> bismilah, could you please not abuse the !ops
04:48 < BenderRodriguez> In rhel
04:48 < BenderRodriguez> is there a way to delete all authconfig related settings and start fresh
04:48 < bismilah> jim, I just put an !ops IN again!
04:48 < bismilah> It ain't the same, but it'll do until I figure this crap out better.
04:49 < jim> if you have a question, just ask... if you notice a serious problem, then maybe call !ops
04:59 < cmj> i don't have ipv6 here.
05:00 < cmj> i think this is lastcenturylink
05:00 < sauvin> Do you have IPv4?
05:00 < cmj> no
05:00 < cmj> tincan and string
05:01 < sauvin> Eeww. I guess I should consider myself lucky, then. On Comcast, I have a decently fast telegraph.
05:01 < cmj> 'morse' is a good package btw
05:01 < cmj> it's how i communicate.
05:02 < cmj> yeah my other house has comcast, this is 2002 isdn speeds
05:02 < cmj> native v6 over there
05:02 < cmj> what crap we have for providers
05:04 < sauvin> Yeah. My upload speeds on Comcast are only slightly better than pony express.
05:04 < cmj> install speedtest-cli
05:04 < cmj> it's pretty great
05:05 < cmj> i'm 1.7 megabitches on this
05:12 < bismilah> !ops I'm an idiot.
05:12 < sauvin> bismilah, yes, you most certainly are. :P
05:13 < BenderRodriguez> can someone help me understand the chage command
05:13 < bismilah> chage?
05:13 < BenderRodriguez> yes
05:13 < BenderRodriguez> chage
05:13 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: That's strike 2 already.
05:13 < BenderRodriguez> What is the meaning and difference between "MIN_DAYS" and "MAX_DAYS"
05:13 < BenderRodriguez> it says minimum number of days before password change for MIN DAYS
05:14 < sauvin> In what context does this "chage" command occur?
05:14 < BenderRodriguez> which doesn't make sense. Does it mean the password change is required after the MIN_DAYS value is reached for a user?
05:14 < [R]> BenderRodriguez: if its 10... you can't change it before 10 days
05:15 < BenderRodriguez> [R]: oh interesting...I guess that's it
05:15 < BenderRodriguez> would it kill them to make it a bit clearer in the --help output?
05:16 < BenderRodriguez> I'm going to email the developer for this
05:16 < BenderRodriguez> >:{
05:18 < BenderRodriguez> sauvin: it's to set the password expiration policies for users
05:20 < jim> bismilah, -dude-, come on... don't make unnecessary !ops calls! I'm gonna have to take action if you do that again
05:21  * bismilah pouts
05:22 < cmj> weird
05:23 < jim> sauvin, chage affects how users password is set... example, it could require people to change their passwd after N days
05:23 < jim> I believe it's part of the shadow passwd suite
05:23 < sauvin> Shows just how in touch *I* am with administrative things! :sigh:
05:25 < cmj> more than many
05:26 < sauvin> The mind boggles.
05:50 < Tech_8> hi
05:58 < alexey-nemovff> hi folks!
05:58 < Tech_8> hi
05:59 < Tech_8> how are you?
05:59 < alexey-nemovff> Tech_8: great and you?
06:02 < alexey-nemovff> I'm almost going to bed.. I took a shower, the weather is very hot!!
06:03  * Some_Person wonders why there doesn't seem to be a remote desktop protocol that uses something like MPEG-4 under the hood
06:03 < michaelrose> Some_Person, because it would suck
06:03 < Some_Person> michaelrose: Why do you say that?
06:05 < michaelrose> encoding and sending pixels sucks beyond working over a lan
06:05 < aaro> Some_Person: nx protocol
06:06 < Some_Person> aaro: Seems to be poorly supported outside of Linux, except in the proprietary versions from NoMachine
06:36 < supernov1h> IS there a way I can write to a file pseudo-terminal (or similar) in /dev/ such that all the processes reading/writing to it can see what all the rest are doing
06:37 < strive> supernov1h: I know of tmux.
06:37 < strive> supernov1h: Start a tmux session and have others attach to it.
06:37 < supernov1h> But how does it work
06:39 < strive> You download and install tmux. Run "tmux" and it'll start a session. Then, you have other users connect via ssh and have them "tmux attach".
06:39 < strive> You type something and they can see it live.
06:39 < supernov1h> To be fair, I only need the file as a communication channel from cu (call-up) to a service, kind of like IPC but plain
06:39 < strive> That's out of my league; I can't help you there.
06:39 < supernov1h> I mean I want to know what system calls it makes to achieve that, I'd rather not use a huge piece of software
06:41 < strive> supernov1h: Or, there's broadcasting a message to /dev/pts/*
06:43 < strive> e.g echo "hello" > /dev/pts/1
06:44 < strive> That's all I know :/
06:44 < supernov1h> yeah but aren't pts generated by the kernel and associated with specific processes etc
06:44 < supernov1h> there's also a fixed limit to how many there can be
06:44 < supernov1h> I think it's like 70 or something
06:45 < strive> I learned something new today :)
06:46 < supernov1h> cat /proc/sys/kernel/pty/max: 4096, hmm that should be enough
06:47 < strive> haha, seems like it would be.
06:48 < Happyhobo> I think I got sent the wrong wireless card, mine has 3 push on connectors and the one I bought has two.
06:48 < cmj> write is used to send text to other terms
06:48 < strive> cmj: There's also "wall" as well.
06:48 < strive> I think...
06:48 < cmj> nevermind. not sure what's going on here
06:49 < strive> lol
06:49 < cmj> s/terms/users
06:49 < strive> man wall
06:50 < strive> It looks like a neat tool.
06:50 < cmj> trump is that you
06:50 < Tech_8> hi
06:50 < strive> lmao
06:50 < strive> Good one.
06:50 < cmj> we always used write 'back then'
06:51 < cmj> now it's irc for logs and shaming
06:52 < strive> :/
06:53 < cmj> (in general)
06:54 < cmj> and slack
06:54 < cmj> which is annoyingly named
07:01 < supernov1h> I just want to create a pty that looks like an I/O device that two users can read and write from
07:01 < supernov1h> to each-other, and it needs to have a static name and location, so /dev/ptmx of some sort sounds like a good start, but I can't find out how to ask the system for onbe
07:02 < strive> I still say tmux.
07:02 < strive> I don't know of any other technology :/
07:03 < supernov1h> the kernel layer ptmx that it probably uses...
07:03 < strive> Cool. Try it out and let us know how it goes.
07:07 < cmj> screen
07:07 < cmj> (tmux for everyone else :p)
07:10 < irwinz> i like both
07:11 < cmj> i've spent too many years polishing my .screenrc, i can't give up
07:34 < hoopyjoopygo> Hello
07:34 < jim> hi
07:34 < hoopyjoopygo> Can we ask command line questions in here?
07:34 < jim> sure
07:35 < hoopyjoopygo> I've been using a command in ubuntu that works well and I ican;t seem to figure out how to get it wokring in Rapsbian
07:35 < jim> it'd be good if you can throw in lots of informative detail
07:35 < hoopyjoopygo> the last part of the command pipes the output of a porgram to PADSP PA:0
07:35 < jim> ok, show the command
07:35 < hoopyjoopygo> but Rapsbian uses aplay istead of pulseaudio
07:36 < hoopyjoopygo> ok one sec
07:36 < hoopyjoopygo> rtl_fm -f 506.73750M -g 45 -s 16k | sox -t raw -r 16k -b 16 -c 1 -e signed-integer - -r 48k -t raw - | padsp dsd -i - -o pa:2
07:38 < jim> ok, to start with and just so you know, I can't give any direct advice because I'm not familiar with the executables...
07:38 < jim> having said that,
07:38 < jim> what do you expect the command to do overall?
07:40 < jim> or, we can also zoom out further than that: what do you want to accomplish in total, as a final goal?
07:40 < hoopyjoopygo> trl_fm tunes my sdr dongle and sets some paramters for the output. DSD takes the digital FM signal and converts it to voice and the last part of the command pipes that output ot the rapsberry pi line out. When it wokrs it will decode p25 encoded radio transmissions and output the voice through the speaker.
07:41 < jim> so it's a radio receiver? or at least it extracts the content?
07:41 < hoopyjoopygo> yes. It receives an fm signal over the air. Converts that digital noise to voice.
07:42 < jim> ok, and that's your overall goal?
07:43 < hoopyjoopygo> Yeah just tune a specific frequency and decode any transmissions. It's essentially a police scanner.
07:45 < hoopyjoopygo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPWD4imXXsc
07:47 < jim> ok, can you understand the voice at the end?
07:47 < hoopyjoopygo> Yeah
07:48 < hoopyjoopygo> on Ubunut it oputputs crystal clear voice. On raspbian i get an audio output erro
07:49 < jim> and that came from the transmission near the end but before that, where the radio seems to be tuned to, and receiving, an encoded signal?
07:51 < jim> at about 20 seconds after the start
07:53 < hoopyjoopygo> yeah the text output shows that it is receiving the sound input and is decoding. Once it decodes enough to start putputting vpice it throws an error
07:55 < jim> I notice in the command line you provided earlier, it's a pipeline of three executables... do you know which program is throwing the error?
07:56 < hoopyjoopygo> DSD
07:57 < hoopyjoopygo> So ubunut usies PADSP for sound output
07:57 < hoopyjoopygo> and raspbian uses aplay
07:57 < hoopyjoopygo> the command i have from ubuntu just needs to be rewritten for rapsbian specifically using Aplay instead of padsp
07:58 < jim> do you know why they behave differently like that?
07:58 < hoopyjoopygo> the relevant portion is | padsp dsd -i - -o pa:2
07:59 < hoopyjoopygo> all i can come up with is something like | aplay dsd -i - -o
07:59 < hoopyjoopygo> which doesnt wokr
07:59 < jim> does the pi not use pa?
07:59 < hoopyjoopygo> the padsp part is a pulseaudio wrapper.
08:00 < hoopyjoopygo> no the pi doesnt use pa as far as i can tell
08:00 < hoopyjoopygo> maybe could install it
08:00 < Happyhobo> Jim this card is working well now and the connection is remaining solid, thank all of y'all for all y'all did.  The replacement had two little push ons and not three like my factory.  Can I use it or do I need to send it back?
08:01 < jim> Happyhobo, one sec :)
08:01 < well_laid_lawn> alsa has a dsp kernel module apparantly https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.12/sound/cards/hdspm.html
08:02 < jim> hoopyjoopygo, so you're saying the command lines are different because of what dsp device they output to?
08:03 < hoopyjoopygo> well I'm an idiot. But from what I can tell rapsbian uses aplay by default
08:03 < well_laid_lawn> http://rybu.org/node/84 might help with using alsa's dsp capabilities
08:03 < jim> come on now, I didn't say that :)
08:04 < hoopyjoopygo> for example this command wokrs perfectly on my pi
08:04 < hoopyjoopygo> aplay /usr/share/scratch/Media/Sounds/Vocals/Singer2.wav
08:04 < notmike> Ew
08:04 < hoopyjoopygo> so I'm assuming I hsould be able to pipe audio output from DSD into aplay
08:04 < hoopyjoopygo> i just dont know the syntax
08:04 < notmike> I need to start squatting twice a week.
08:05 < jim> hoopyjoopygo, I'm just thinkign that if both machines had the same thing installed, you'd probably get a more suceessful result?
08:05 < jim> and, the command lines could be much closer
08:05 < hoopyjoopygo> right. Like i said I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to linux sound interfaces. Can I just install pulse audio on the pi?
08:06 < jim> I would think so... and, I'm not sure, I never had a pi
08:06 < hoopyjoopygo> Thanks for your help Jim. Do you happen to know a good IRC channel for Pi support?
08:07 < jim> no, not specifically... -but- there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in looking for channels on the Freenode irc net. To start, /msg alis help
08:08 < hoopyjoopygo> Cool. Thx!
08:08 < jim> welcome... and,
08:08 < jim> please spell out thx as thanks, so that newer english speakers can understand
08:09 < hoopyjoopygo> Will do. Thanks.
08:09 < jim> welcome... it's just like: please spell out u as you, it helps people (particularly new english speakers) to understand, at least, most of what's going on
08:10 < hoopyjoopygo> totes! fer shure.
08:12  * sauvin jete hoopyjoopygo un coup d'oeil
08:18 < cmj> joint irc malissia
08:18 < Happyhobo> jim looking for parts is diffiicult
08:19 < cluelessperson> in the  /etc/sudoers file, how do you allow for any argument?
08:19 < cmj> the best i could do
08:24 < sauvin> cluelessperson, huh?
08:25 < syb0rg> cluelessperson, you can already argue with whoever you want
08:25 < jim> what are these things, connectors?
08:25 < sauvin> syb0rg, no, you can't!
08:26 < jim> Happyhobo, ^^
08:26 < Happyhobo> the wires from the motherboard
08:26 < syb0rg> I see what you did there
08:26  * sauvin snickers
08:26 < sauvin> It's 0126 on a Sunday morning, just trying to have some fun.
08:26 < Happyhobo> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAA7W5618707&cm_re=laptop_wireless_card-_-9SIAA7W5618707-_-Product
08:27 < Happyhobo> See the white and black arrows and the two connectors?
08:27 < jim> Happyhobo, is this a wireless card?
08:27 < Happyhobo> yes
08:28 < jim> ok, so do you mean the top connectors that have a circle and a center conductor?
08:29 < Happyhobo> https://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll1280/AA7W_131387116481093757IFGjN4Be4p.jpg        yes and mine has 1 3 2
08:30 < jim> ok, those are the antenna connectors
08:31 < MaggieC> hi, guys. i got a question. `read` command not working in tmux. the `Enter` key pressed, and it shown `^M` character. help plz..
08:32 < jim> I think ^m is the enter key
08:33 < Happyhobo> so why does this one have three and the other only two
08:33 < MaggieC> but it should be capture by `read` command, not shown in the console
08:33 < Happyhobo> Will I lose signal if I use the one with two instead of three
08:34 < Happyhobo> I already have a freighter's worth of connection of prroblems.
08:34 < MaggieC> i've tried to detach tmux, then it worked..
08:35 < MaggieC> so weird.
08:35 < jim> Happyhobo, this is for a laptop you have?
08:36 < jim> well tmux does try to insert itself
08:37 < jim> does it need to work with tmux attached?
08:37 < MaggieC> yes, i need tmux
08:37 < MaggieC> i've googled, nothing got.
08:38 < Happyhobo> You pointed me in the right direction and I googled it.  I need a card with 3 antennas to take advantage of my equipment.  The middle is an external outside the case antenna
08:48 < Happyhobo> Jim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMO  the third is the gray triangle this is MIMO, it is the best there is for wireless.  OK, this one is going right back to Amazon.
08:53 < jim> Happyhobo, how many cables do you have in your laptop that fits those connectors?
08:57 < Happyhobo> and there isn't a three antenna setup with built in bluetooth
08:57 < Happyhobo> 3
08:57 < Happyhobo> I have the black, the white and the gray, the aux, the main and the mimo
08:58 < Happyhobo> Funny thing is the MIMO cards which I figure to be better are very cheap Jim .
08:58 < jim> are any of those specifically for bluetooth?
08:59 < Happyhobo> Not on newegg
08:59 < Happyhobo> As long as I stay on Antergos and my friend takes care of his end I guess I'll stick with this card.
09:00 < notmike> Antergos is a deeply flawed distribution.
09:00 < Happyhobo> This card won't connect on endless and I really wanted to try it.
09:00 < jim> on the card that you already have, does it have three antenna connectors?
09:00 < Happyhobo> Yes, black, white and gray.
09:01 < Happyhobo> notmike:  how come no other distribution will remain connected if they connect at all.
09:01 < notmike> User headspace and timing
09:02 < Happyhobo> notmike:  the others I had to tether to my cell, turn off my data and run the wireless that works fine for the other computers in the house and the phone.
09:02 < jim> ok, if I remember right on the card I put in my laptop (it didn't have wireless before), I had to push those antenna connectors onto the card pretty hard... and I put the connectors on before I put the card into the laptop
09:03 < Happyhobo> My brother took it apart for me.  He reassembled everything just like it was before, all three connected.
09:03 < notmike> Happyhobo: since networking isn't distribution specific idk what to tell you really
09:04 < Happyhobo> Do you find fault with Antergos and refer to it as "dumbed down" Arch notmike?
09:05 < notmike> I don't think that's incorrect exactly. But I'd try to phrase it more tactfully. I'm a very respectful and reserved kind of person.
09:07 < Happyhobo> I admit when I used the debian derivatives I knew cli for package management and now all I know is the gui for package management.
09:08 < RustyJ> apt?
09:10 < Happyhobo> Yep.
09:10 < Happyhobo> Antergos has dumbed down me not Arch.  LOL
09:11 < thadtheman> kwin --replace
09:13 < Happyhobo> The only cards on the newegg site that have the three antennas jim are ancient and some are refurbed.  I think I'll try the new card.
09:14 < jim> Happyhobo, I would keep trying your existing card, and make sure the antenna connectors are securely pushed into the card (but be careful, don't push so hard as to break the card)
09:16 < Happyhobo> but the new card may have MIMO built in and it does have bluetooth jim
09:17 < Happyhobo> I would love to hook the hdmi cable to the TV, start the bluetooth and enjoy youtube.
09:19 < Happyhobo> newer model is generally better it's always seemed
09:20 < Happyhobo> night folks fading fast
09:36 < Mikato> hiei, can`t synchronize two linux machine by ptp
09:40 < ikonia> how are you syncing them ?
09:42 < Dagmar> Stuff like this is why I just use ntpd
09:42 < ikonia> ntp is for time, we have no idea how/what he's trying to sync
09:43 < Dagmar> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Time_Protocol
09:43 < ikonia> interesting, I thought it was talking about ptp (point to point) which is why I was curious to what he was trying to sync
09:44 < ikonia> that's a useful link, I'll have a read, thank you
09:55 < notmike> People still use PTP? Didn't that project fail years ago?
10:05 < jelly> PTP is used where high precision and low latency is needed, nanoseconds or so
10:10 < triad> hi guys
10:11 < triad> which distro would you recommend for a low end notebook?
10:11 < [R]> triad: whatever dist you're comfortable with
10:11 < triad> i was thinking of fedora xfce
10:12 < [R]> so go for it
10:17 < mustu> hey I'm reading some named log and need some help in understanding some part of it
10:19 < mustu> May 28 17:46:40 myserver named[1175]: 28-May-2018 10:16:10.146 client 10.11.128.122#42905 (XXXXXXX): query: XXXXXXXX IN A + (XXXXX)
10:20 < mustu> why the IP is logged with : instead of . between the octet >>>  10:16:10.146
10:21 < [R]> that looks like a time...
10:22 < Sitri> It is
10:22 < jim> hi tyx... can you see this?
10:24 < mustu> do named logs dump time in that part ?
10:25 < [R]> well its right after the date
10:26 < [R]> so im going to say yes?
10:27 < mustu> so we can expect two timestamps in named logs?
10:28 < jim> well usually one per line
10:32 < jim> you should get both time and date on each line of named logs
10:44 < anqxyr> can I talk here? I think my nick is identified
10:45 < anqxyr> I'd really appreciate any help with a problem I have. Let me copy-paste what I wrote to another channel
10:45 < anqxyr> I'm trying to get rear mic to work. When I go to Settings -> Multimedia -> Audio and Video -> Audio Hardware Setup; then change the sound card from HDA NVidia to Built-in Audio
10:45 < anqxyr> Then in device configuration select Recording and Read Microphone;  then in input levels I can see it react to my speaking
10:46 < anqxyr> however, nothing else does, neither skype test call nor arecord. "arecord -vvv -f dat /dev/null" just shows zeroes throughout
10:46 < anqxyr> I checked in alsamixer and Rear Mic's volume is at 100 and it's not muted
10:46 < anqxyr> the distro is kubuntu 17.10
10:49 < anqxyr> ok, it works now
10:50 < anqxyr> not sure what part of what I did got it there, but whatever
10:58 < blueglass> anqxyr: yeah that pretty much sums up every time I have a linux audio issue
10:58 < blueglass> try a bunch of things and then suddenly it starts working
10:59 < blueglass> continues working for a while until it randomly stops working
10:59 < anqxyr> Yeah, this is my first time using a mike. The last thing I did before it started working was switch Device Profile from Duplex to Input
11:00 < anqxyr> but then after switching it back to Duplex it still works, so idk
11:06 < wildermind> Hey
11:07 < wildermind> I updated my kernel and now when I try to build some driver I get `make[1]: *** /lib/modules/4.15.0-22-generic/build: No such file or directory.  Stop.` any idea what's going on?
11:12 < [R]> wildermind: how did you update your kernel, what did you update to? what did you update from?
11:12 < wildermind> from apt, i'm running ubuntu
11:14 < [R]> you need the matching linux headers package
11:18 < wildermind> I had the headers, it was a symlink prob, thx anyway
11:19 < [R]> you're doing something worng if you have a "symlink prob"
11:19 < [R]> but whatever
11:53 < flipchan> hello i need some iptables help
11:54 < flipchan> i am trying to block a port on interface eth1 but its not working
11:54 < well_laid_lawn> !iptables
11:55 < well_laid_lawn> what are you using to do that ?
11:55 < flipchan> iptables -A INPUT -i eth1 -p tcp --dport 3128 -j REJECT -m comment --comment "reject it"
11:55 < well_laid_lawn> what entry ?
11:55 < well_laid_lawn> k
11:56 < flipchan> yeah , not sure why its not working
11:56 < well_laid_lawn> and what suggests it is not working ?
11:58 < flipchan> okey wierd, it is blocking from others but from my router i can access that port
11:58 < flipchan> on that interface
11:59 < well_laid_lawn> "from others" ?
12:00 < flipchan> computer  B and C cant connect to this port but the router can
12:07 < well_laid_lawn> I can't see your set up from here - is eth0 in and eth1 out ?
12:12 < Yamakaja> Ah yes, gnuplot worked quite nicely. Some highlights from my fw https://imgur.com/a/2n8e9Qy
12:12 < gambl0re> im thinking of getting this laptop and plan on installing ubuntu. will it be able to run on this computer's hardware? https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Ideapad-120s-11-inch-Notebook-Review.268204.0.html
12:14 < well_laid_lawn> laptop and plan ? what plan comes with a laptop ?
12:14 < epicmetal> well_laid_lawn: comma after laptop
12:15 < well_laid_lawn> k
12:16 < dgurney> gambl0re, it should
12:16 < well_laid_lawn> I steer clear clear of lenovo - they have a history of doing nasty things
12:16 < gambl0re> is kubuntu supposed to be a lightweight os?
12:17 < dgurney> well not by design, KDE happens to be quite lightweight
12:17 < iflema> lol
12:17 < well_laid_lawn> kde is not light
12:17 < iflema> wasnt ready for that
12:17 < sauvin> KDE, I believe, has the reputation of being the *heaviest* DE on the planet.
12:17 < dgurney> no, not anymore
12:17 < gambl0re> would kubuntu run fine on this laptop without performance issues is what im asking
12:17 < sauvin> dgurney, what's heavier?
12:18 < dgurney> gnome
12:18 < well_laid_lawn> anything qt bbased is resource heavy
12:18 < sauvin> gambl0re, I've been running KDE on everything I've owned for the past fifteen years or more.
12:18 < iflema> plasma
12:18 < well_laid_lawn> try a tiler
12:18 < sauvin> But I don't run it because it's "light".
12:18 < gambl0re> sauvin, yes but hows the performance
12:19 < gambl0re> doesnt crash if you have multiple apps running?
12:19 < dgurney> nowadays it isn't unreasonable to have kde use 500MB of ram or less
12:19 < sauvin> Can't tell you that because I don't have a good basis for comparison. I traded "performance" for "power" a long time ago.
12:19 < dgurney> if that isn't light enough on modern hardware, I don't know what is...
12:19 < iflema> hear here
12:19 < gambl0re> sauvin, fine
12:19 < iflema> under 300
12:19 < sauvin> I'll nearly always have several things running at the same time. I have no complaints with its performance.
12:19 < dgurney> I know very well that KDE used to be heavy, but it isn't that heavy anymore
12:20  * iflema its your brother
12:20 < sauvin> Requisite disclaimer: your milage may vary.
12:20 < Ulrar> Hey, I have a weird problem : wget says it doesn't trust the certificate, but curl is okay with it
12:20 < Ulrar> What could cause that ?
12:21 < Ulrar> (the certificate is just a normal let's encrypt)
12:21 < well_laid_lawn> older wget
12:21 < Ulrar> It is old, it's debian 7
12:21 < Ulrar> but shouldn't it use the same certificates curl is using ?
12:21 < Ulrar> that's just /etc/ssl isn't it ?
12:21 < well_laid_lawn> probably has mold on it
12:22 < rcf> Ulrar: different SSL libraries? Maybe?
12:23 < Ulrar> Probably
12:23 < Ulrar> Yeah
12:23 < Ulrar> wget is linked against gnutls
12:23 < Ulrar> curl against libssl
12:23 < Ulrar> That must be it
12:24 < Ulrar> Oh well, I'll just say that needs to be migrated to a newer server again then
12:24 < Ulrar> thanks
12:24 < well_laid_lawn> cheers
12:30 < cmj> you can ingore certs with wget
12:30 < cmj> or the self-signed warning rather
12:30 < Ulrar> Well I'd rather not ignore a valid cert
12:31 < cmj> maybe not anymore
13:06 < stennowork> good day, i hope this is the right channel for the following question: on our test server, i created a self-signed certificate using then `openssl` command. I created the certificate for the local IP 192.168.2.114. In my /etc/hosts, i have an entry: 192.168.2.114 some.url. Will the certificate match some.url ?
13:06 < stennowork> i will use the certificate with httpd
13:07 < stennowork> hm i guess this is more a question for #httpd
13:15 < hpotter> It will not.
13:15 < stennowork> right, thanks
13:16 < jack_rip_vim> o/
13:24 < djph> strive: no.
13:25 < jack_rip_vim> hi djph
13:34 < djph> 'sup jack_rip_vim
13:36 < flying_sausages> hey guys, I've got a wi-fi chip plugged in via usb and it does not seem to go up on boot. When I try run "ifup mlan0" the first time it will tell me that the link is not ready, but when I try again immediately after that will be fine. Any ideas of where I can troubleshoot this?
13:36 < flying_sausages> I'm running a minimal ubuntu image if that helps
13:36 < jack_rip_vim> djph: said hi to you! :D
13:36 < flying_sausages> the chip is from marvel and has had to have kernel mods baked in for it
13:37 < djph> flying_sausages: probably somethng with USB in general
13:37 < linuxconformer> guys is there a way for me to name a process and all the processes it starts?
13:38 < flying_sausages> hmmm any suggestions where to start djph ?
13:38 < linuxconformer> (i.e. an easy way to identify a running process, and kill it and its children)
13:38 < flying_sausages> lsusb shows it just fine
13:38 < jack_rip_vim> linuxconformer: killall process name?
13:38 < linuxconformer> jack_rip_vim: is that the command?
13:39 < jack_rip_vim> linuxconformer: killall [ProcessName]
13:39 < noodlepie> killall takes a program name and stops all occurances and children
13:39 < linuxconformer> e.g. if i run a make file that has created a number of processes (gunicorn server, database, etc), will that kill all the processes started by the make command?
13:39 < noodlepie> you can use killall -9 to tell the kernel to "force" it to stop
13:39 < noodlepie> but you 'd still need the program name on the end of that command!
13:39 < noodlepie> of course
13:39 < jack_rip_vim> linuxconformer: ctrl_C
13:39 < jack_rip_vim> linuxconformer: ctrl+C
13:40 < linuxconformer> jack_rip_vim: i can't use control+c, this make command is run on a server which i ssh into
13:40 < linuxconformer> which means if i log out i can't use ctrl+c anymore
13:40 < jack_rip_vim> linuxconformer: do you use & at the end of command?
13:40 < linuxconformer> yeah
13:40 < hehehe> fck linux at it again
13:41 < jack_rip_vim> linuxconformer: then you need to use killall
13:41 < jack_rip_vim> hi hehehe
13:41 < hehehe> when you fail to ident you cant change your nick while in this channel
13:41 < hehehe> very stupid :D
13:41 < hehehe> hi jack_rip_vim
13:41 < linuxconformer> jack_rip_vim: ok so i would run "killall {make_command_PID}"?
13:41 < jack_rip_vim> linuxconformer: yeah, I think
13:41 < linuxconformer> ok thanks
13:41 < noodlepie> linuxconformer, use the "kill" command with a PId
13:41 < hehehe> jim:  can you change that stupid policy? its literally soo not nice
13:42 < pingfloyd> linuxconformer: use fg
13:42 < linuxconformer> noodle: i tried that, it didn't work
13:42 < jack_rip_vim> linuxconformer: oh, noodlepie is right, kill for PID, killall for process name
13:43 < linuxconformer> i tried using "kill PID", but it didn't stop all the processes that make started
13:44 < jack_rip_vim> linuxconformer: killall make, will that work?
13:44 < noodlepie> linuxconformer, try kill -9 pid
13:45 < flying_sausages> lsusb shows it just fineroot
13:45 < flying_sausages> oops
13:46 < jack_rip_vim> noodlepie: I think, for make, it must execute a lot of other command, kill one just make some part of the compiling fail
13:48 < jack_rip_vim> noodlepie: for the bad part, if make with make install, the broken binary file will be installed to dir
14:03 < fc5dc9d4> where can I download linux mint 19 beta isos?
14:05 < hpotter> http://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/linuxmint.com/testing/
14:05 < hpotter> Oups, there are no 19.
14:06 < michael2> hi all. I have a  question about syslinux. is the reason the `syslinux --install /dev/sdX' command is needed - say vs. just placing the executable file in the folder - because `syslinux --install' actually places the ldlinux.sys file in the first sector of the boot partition? i.e. the block pointers within `ldlinux.sys's inode  would actually point to the first blocks of the boot partition - which wouldn't
14:06 < michael2> happen if you just created `ldlinux.sys' within an existing filesystem?
14:19 < saltlake> hi
14:20 < BluesKaj> HI folks
14:20 < triceratux> sup
14:20 < jack_rip_vim> hi BluesKaj
14:20 < jack_rip_vim> Hi triceratux
14:22 < BluesKaj> hey triceratux, jack_rip_vim, not much, finally able to sleep in an extra 2hrs for a change :-)
14:23 < jack_rip_vim> BluesKaj: why you can't sleep? have sleep problems?
14:24 < BluesKaj> jack_rip_vim, think I nap too much during the day :-)
14:26 < jack_rip_vim> BluesKaj: Oh, that is OK. I am napping in daylight often. :)
14:27 < BluesKaj> I'm retired, and getting old too
14:28 < jack_rip_vim> BluesKaj: keep a young heart. You are no getting old. :)
14:29 < jack_rip_vim> BluesKaj: if I have a free time, I will get my ticket, fly to see you. :)
14:30 < BluesKaj> well, I try...some days it's difficult
14:32 < dfcnvt> Anybody use motion program before?  Extensive use of arguments?   I'm looking for a simple and straightforward -- by running motion, save any file in the current directory (where I run motion command).
14:32 < jack_rip_vim> BluesKaj: give some times, I need some time to put down my current jobs, then I can fly to see you.
14:33 < djph> given that the file is already in a directory, is it not "saved"?
14:33 < dfcnvt> No http server or anything - just save files to the current directory any time there is a motion to the camera.
14:33 < djph> OHH
14:33 < BluesKaj> jack_rip_vim, no need , look after yourself, I'll be ok
14:34 < SilverMight> dfcnvt, fairly sure the directory is specified in the config
14:35 < noodlepie> Why is Linux like fine silk? -- Nice threads!
14:35 < dfcnvt> SilverMight: I want to use arguments by pointing to current directory. Rather than to edit the config and make it as a default.
14:35 < jack_rip_vim> BluesKaj: OK, take care of yourself. But I think I will still go to see you. because, Seeing my friends on freenode is part of my plans. :)
14:36 < SilverMight> hm
14:36 < SilverMight> not really sure if you can do that
14:36 < jack_rip_vim> SilverMight: why you think that way?
14:37 < SilverMight> there's not many command line options anymore
14:37 < SilverMight> http://www.lavrsen.dk/foswiki/bin/view/Motion/CommandLineOptions
14:37 < afidegnum> hello, i have exim4 and postfix on my server, how do i find the default runing one? can both run simultatnously, or i nee dto stop 1 ?
14:37 < SilverMight> take a look at that
14:37 < dfcnvt> SilverMight: I'm on the same page (different domain anyway)
14:37 < dfcnvt> https://motion-project.github.io/motion_config.html#Command_Line_Options
14:38 < djph> afidegnum: one would imagine one would stop the other.  You don't really need two MTAs
14:38 < jack_rip_vim> SilverMight: Oh, I must misunderstood you.
14:38 < dfcnvt> I'm just illiterated to it. Hence my asking here.
14:39 < ayecee> illiterated?
14:39 < SilverMight> dfcnvt, I don't really think you can, they seemed to phase out most of it for the config
14:39 < SilverMight> Maybe older versions could work?
14:39 < dfcnvt> ayecee: The arguments may be clear as straightforward but sometimes I don't REALLY know what exactly is gonig on in the background.
14:39 < dfcnvt> Err
14:40 < dfcnvt> I just reinstalled a new Debian 9
14:40 < dfcnvt> And I just...had to do it all over again.
14:40 < ayecee> i don't think that's a cromulent word
14:40 < dfcnvt> I have my security camera python script.  I'm trying to fix the motion program to my expectation.
14:40 < ayecee> caught me by surprise
14:40 < triceratux> ayecee: someone illiterate making an allusion ?
14:42 < dfcnvt> That terminology just brings me to smile.  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent
14:42 < ayecee> :)
14:46 < dfcnvt> This is my program in python.  https://paste.ofcode.org/rzVwKBBPsrVV9SVzbe3BBK
14:47 < dfcnvt> It won't work as of this time due to motion being changed.  So, I just need to fix line 17 by adding appropriate arguments.
14:49 < dfcnvt> I guess it's a config file need to put into consideration and...I will need to somehow have my python program to create the config file temporarily -- point the motion to config. Get it all running. When done, destroy the config file.
14:50 < mawk> why are you doing a python script if it's full of system() calls
14:50 < mawk> without even checking return codes or anything
14:50 < dfcnvt> mawk: To use gui.
14:50 < mawk> ah, right
14:50 < mawk> I forgot to scroll
14:51 < dfcnvt> mawk: Well, I have my terminal to execute the code. It'll spits the results on the terminal but at the same time, my clicking command would be on the gui.
14:51 < mawk> for some of the commands you can use facilities inside python itself instead of system()
14:51 < mawk> that way you can get notification for the child death, you cal kill it easily, you can get its isolated error output, etc
14:52 < mawk> there is stuff in the subprocess module for that
14:52 < dfcnvt> mawk: I suppose, I could mature it but at this time. It's just a convenient's use.
14:52 < mawk> http://www.lavrsen.dk/foswiki/bin/view/Motion/CommandLineOptions
14:58 < t0th_-> hi, how i can solve this error? Cannot utime: Operation not permitted
14:59 < dfcnvt> Didn't know there exist a #motion channel -- I just asked my question there.
15:00 < dfcnvt> t0th_-: I believe it's a permissional issue you're having.
15:00 < dfcnvt> t0th_-: Try sudo.
15:00 < mawk> you need to be the proprietary of the file to do that t0th_-
15:01 < mawk> well, if you want to touch the date you need to have write access, and if you want to spoof the date you need to be the owner
15:03 < t0th_-> thanks
15:10 < Psi-Jack> Well, finally after all these years..... I have automated some level of my dotfiles in $HOME with git+gitsubmodules. heh
15:11 < phinxy> What do you do if you configure a file outside of $HOME?  For instance a systemd service?
15:11 < Psi-Jack> That's simply backed up with borgbackup.
15:12 < thadtheman> What's borgbackup?
15:12 < hehehe> how I can add wifi driver to lubuntu iso?
15:12 < Psi-Jack> A backup tool.
15:12 < hehehe> plan is to boot from usb stick
15:13 < hehehe> atm it works but wifi yet to work :D
15:16 < phinxy> Psi-Jack• You could have different branches for different configurations
15:17 < Psi-Jack> Not needed.
15:19 < dfcnvt> hehehe: If you mean to use lubuntu iso -- to install into your system than to use it as a live distro then you should temporarily use the wired ethernet connection to do all the installation, setup, and when you are finished -- do the 'sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade' to fully install all the needed software - then you can go grab the wifi driver for your system.
15:19 < hehehe> yes but
15:19 < hehehe> it does not have wired internet jack
15:19 < hehehe> it can take some mem card
15:20 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: hehehe is calling you
15:20 < Psi-Jack> No.. No he's not. :p
15:20 < jack_rip_vim> :p
15:21 < iflema> hehehe: the driver is in kernel or packaged or?
15:21 < dfcnvt> hehehe: I see.
15:21 < triceratux> hehehe: you just have to extract the initrd & add the wifi kernel module to the extract then rebuild it & regen a copy of the iso with the new initrd in it
15:21 < hehehe> RTL8723BS - wifi card
15:21 < Psi-Jack> Ugh Realcrap.
15:22 < hehehe> seems there is https://github.com/hadess/rtl8723bs
15:22 < jack_rip_vim> RT8723BS, the driver should be exist
15:23 < hehehe> yes I think so googling now
15:25 < dfcnvt> On a wild guess - will there need a change to repo? To have the file as non-free?
15:26 < dfcnvt> (for hehehe's)
15:26 < hehehe> triceratux: can I simply copy git to usb while using windows, and once booted life simply compile git and use it?
15:27 < t0th_-> hi]
15:27 < jack_rip_vim> hehehe: I think it can, but if it is on a read-only distro, you better keep it on another USB
15:27 < t0th_-> how i can solve Cannot utime: Operation not permitted error?
15:27 < triceratux> hehehe: tias
15:27 < jack_rip_vim> t0th_-: maybe you need root
15:28 < hehehe> jack_rip_vim: why
15:28 < dfcnvt> t0th_-: It's a permissional issue.  Use sudo.
15:28 < jack_rip_vim> hehehe: if you copy it into a read-only distro, when you boot it again, it may disappear.
15:29 < hehehe> jack_rip_vim: yes I will have to compile it each time, unless I can somehow create permanent space on that usb
15:30 < hehehe> which should be possible
15:30 < voidcrafted> Hey
15:30 < hehehe> hey
15:30 < hehehe> voidcrafted: well done, come in :P
15:30 < voidcrafted> Hm?
15:30 < dfcnvt> Guys, I think the approach to recreate to new image, is rather a long way to resolve the issues.  I think it's best to stick to during installation then import the driver to it (or however it work through the installation steps).
15:31 < jack_rip_vim> hehehe: or you can reproduct the distro, unpackage the rootfs, chroot to it, make and make install the driver, then package the rootfs, create the new iso file
15:31 < voidcrafted> I've installed SeaBIOS and Solus on my chromebook, what optimizations if any should I make to make it feel more responsive, or are my expectations too high?
15:31 < voidcrafted> (It's a c720)
15:32 < t0th_-> same error with sudo
15:32 < jack_rip_vim> t0th_-: what error?
15:33 < jack_rip_vim> t0th_-: is that a read only file?
15:34 < dfcnvt> voidcrafted: I tried to play with chromebook long time ago -- no idea if the change nowadays is improved (what you said about SeaBIOS). So, I'll leave you and hope someone can help you out.
15:34 < dfcnvt> (I'm not saying much that benefits you, sorry :(  )
15:34 < dfcnvt> t0th_-: What command did you run that return error?
15:39 < ice9> how to know the clock that the processor is running at?
15:39 < dfcnvt> voidcrafted: for responsive/performance -- I suppose, you should research on 'linux performance' throughout on google to find such answers.
15:40 < dfcnvt> ice9: 'cat /proc/cpuinfo'
15:40 < dfcnvt> ice9: I'm uncertain if you can learn whether it's clocking or not....but I believe the 'cpu MHz' line is what you're looking for.
15:42 < dfcnvt> And...you may need to reboot your system and jump to bio to learn your cpu -- you have the ability to change setting to 'over-clocking' your cpu  (be caution as it may overheat). Ensure you have cooling system, best fan, or whatnot.  Pay close attention to cpu's temperature.
15:42 < ice9> i'm looking for live cpu clock, i think lscpu shows that
15:43 < dfcnvt> ice9: Yup and that.
15:43 < dfcnvt> For live. Hmm
15:43 < dfcnvt> which distro you're on?
15:43 < ice9> Arch
15:44 < dfcnvt> I think htop or top will show you active performance.
15:44 < tamarind> Is there a way to download and install packages to a system with broken sources ? I am on Backtrack 5 and want to update to Ubuntu (for which i need a dvd writing software to be installed in Backtrack 5)
15:44 < tamarind> didnt know any os which does not have the capability by default to have a dvd burning software ! uh
15:46 < dfcnvt> ice9: I think 'watch sensors' or 'pacman -S lm_sensors' or 'watch pacman -S lm_sensors' is what you wanted.
15:48 < dfcnvt> ice9:    An alternative to cpu monitor -- https://alternativeto.net/software/gkrellm/
15:49 < dfcnvt> hehehe: How it is going?  Got some solutions in mind?
15:52 < BenderRodriguez> hm
15:52 < BenderRodriguez> dfcnvt: question
15:54 < hehehe> dfcnvt keeping it simple - if I simply create new dir on the stick, copy paste files, will it work when I boot on linux?
15:54 < djph> tamarind: USB key and dd?
15:55 < dfcnvt> hehehe: I'm guessing you mean the imaging.
15:55 < hehehe> what do you mean by imaging?
15:55 < dfcnvt> hehehe: For ISO, you would need to do the imaging to the stick.
15:55 < dfcnvt> hehehe: For the wifi driver, simply copy the file and put it in the stick.
15:56 < hehehe> what is imaging
15:56 < hehehe> yes simply copy file
15:56 < hehehe> thats the idea
15:56 < dfcnvt> hehehe: Give me a sec -- I'll get the appropriate software that does the job.
15:56 < tamarind> djph, elaborate please
15:56 < Juesto> not as simple as copying
15:56 < hehehe> when I boot from the stick hd will be in the ram
15:56 < hehehe> however i can mount stick right?
15:57 < djph> tamarind: plug in a USB stick.  dd if=whatever.iso of=/dev/sdb blocksize=4M && sync
15:57 < hehehe> dfcnvt: I have iso already on the stick and it does work
15:57 < djph> note syntax may be off
15:59 < dfcnvt> hehehe: I believe you can access to the memory stick  while you are on live distro.
15:59 < kerframil> bs rather than blocksize. other than that, conv=fsync is less clumsy than doing a full-blown sync(1).
16:00 < hehehe> dfcnvt: cool
16:00 < dfcnvt> So, yes -- you can put wifi driver or whatnot to the memory stick.  Preferable you create a directory to keep it clear from the mess.
16:00 < djph> kerframil: knew there were fixes to it ...
16:00 < meek777> Hello everyone. Is it safe to create mount points inside /run mounetd as tmpfs (debian)? I mean is there a chance that it will be explicitly wiped (like rm -rf) at some point (at reboot or shutdown) putting in danger any data inside mounted directories?
16:01 < ayecee> meek777: probably yes
16:02 < kerframil> meek777: yes, there is such a chance. that the filesystem is named tmpfs is a hint.
16:03 < meek777> understood, thanks
16:03 < dfcnvt> When there is write access to such mounted point then yes, there is a risk to it.
16:03 < kerframil> meek777: if you mount non-tmpfs filesystems inside, it might be ok. you'd want to be sure there are no (poorly written) /tmp reaping tasks that run on your system though, I guess.
16:03 < kerframil> meek777: if in doubt, probably best use /mnt or anything that isn't a child of a directory that is intended to be transient.
16:04 < BluesKaj> tamarind, djph might have the answer if writing with dd to you old pc's hdd will create a bootable OS.
16:04 < dfcnvt> BenderRodriguez: You have question?  :)
16:04 < kerframil> meek777: /var/tmp is another option. /var/tmp is intended to be persistent so there should be no reaping of its content.
16:05 < ayecee> i don't think persistence is anticipated if he's using tmpfs
16:05 < dfcnvt> I think it's best to ask what's the intent for doing so while mounting?  Is it to chroot it?
16:06 < kerframil> well, that's how I took i at first. but I think he might be referring to the mounting of other filesystems beneath a tmpfs mount point, which is a different matter.
16:06 < BenderRodriguez> was your last message previous to me at 14:03:24 UTC?
16:06 < TRS-80> good morning fine people
16:06 < BenderRodriguez> I'm trying to see if my irc client is broken
16:08 < meek777> I just wanted to make something like temporary mount points, without leaving traces at hard drive
16:08 < dfcnvt> BenderRodriguez: uh, I'll take a look at timestamp upward and see if it is so.  But my timezone is differ than yours.
16:08 < dfcnvt> BenderRodriguez: What's your time right now?  Mine's 10:08
16:08 < BenderRodriguez> 09:08 currently
16:08 < dfcnvt> Okay, 1 hour differ.
16:08 < BenderRodriguez> you're in EDT
16:08 < dfcnvt> Right.
16:08 < BenderRodriguez> ok.
16:09 < BenderRodriguez> so about the timestamp before you first replied to me? :3
16:09 < dfcnvt> I'm guessing you want me to find...15:03?
16:09 < dfcnvt> (on my side)
16:09 < BenderRodriguez> hmm
16:09 < BenderRodriguez> ok
16:09 < dfcnvt> BenderRodriguez: But the time now's 10?
16:10 < TRS-80> Looking for recommendations for domain name registration. I have been very happy with afraid.org free DNS service for years but time to step it up now and I want to start searching for and register one or more of my own domains. Looking for reasonable price but most importantly trustworthiness, I don't want to be jacked around with my address on the internet should I want to move it later. In fact, in that vein, thinking I would
16:10 < TRS-80> continue to use afraid.org for DNS or at least backup DNS. But they don't directly do domain name registration. Oh yeah and is it better to deal directly with a registrar or a reseller?
16:13 < kerframil> meek777: if you know that there are no scheduled tasks that injudiciously walk - and clean - /tmp, it should be fine. think tmpreaper and the like. udisks2 already uses /run/media, for what its worth.
16:14 < kerframil> meek777: with /run usually being a tmpfs these days
16:14 < meek777> No, I don't have anything like that.
16:15 < hehehe> works
16:15 < hehehe> :)
16:15 < hehehe> wifi works :P
16:15 < hehehe> I may  install win7 make it dual boot
16:16 < hehehe> since win10 takes too much hd space
16:16 < Psi-Jack> Nah. Just don't waste the space at all with Windows. :p
16:16 < dfcnvt> hehehe: Oh yea?  That's wonderful.
16:17 < maryo> I have around 6 users who has root access and 4 with sudo access. I have noticed that someone has deleted the directory containing 35G of data :| I wanted to figure out who has deleted it. Bit confused as root rights is given to 6 users and sudo rights to 4 users, how can I figure out the sheep here?
16:17 < maryo> Any suggest would help.
16:17 < hehehe> haha Psi-Jack however it does sounds neat to run small netbook as dual boot :)
16:17 < hehehe> * a small netbook
16:17 < ayecee> maryo: you can't, after the fact.
16:17 < Psi-Jack> Your idea of "neat" is... unusual. :p
16:18 < ayecee> if you had auditing enabled, you could maybe figure that out.
16:18 < ayecee> maryo: as it is, restore from backups ;)
16:18 < maryo> ayecee, hmmm so how could I prevent this behavior in the future?
16:19 < Psi-Jack> Stop giving people direct root, for starters.
16:19 < dfcnvt> maryo: I think by checking through 'w' 'who'...and uhh  /var/log/access.log
16:19 < hehehe> Psi-Jack: at least I can test some win apps on it :)
16:19 < djph> Psi-Jack: hell, don't give them sudo either
16:19 < ayecee> maryo: enable auditing. i haven't done it myself, but i'm planning to one of these days :)
16:19 < kerframil> hehehe: win7 with updates should actually have a noticeably larger disk footprint
16:19 < dfcnvt> maryo: Oh excuse me, auth.log
16:20 < hehehe> kerframil: o well
16:20 < TRS-80> Psi-Jack: djph +1
16:20 < dfcnvt> maryo: I'm not sure if you're able to check 'history' from user. I would love to learn this too.
16:20 < ayecee> maryo: basically, it logs when people create, update, delete files and so forth.
16:20 < kerframil> hehehe: there's an article about it somewhere at arstechnica
16:21 < maryo> ayecee, sure thank you.
16:21 < dfcnvt> I'll ask question here:  how do you guys check 'history' command via the separate user?  Providing I have root access to do so.
16:21 < maryo> dfcnvt, But as I mentioned 6 users were having root access. w or who if shows root, then how do i figure out which user?
16:22 < dfcnvt> maryo: I see, perhaps -- by checking ip address where it was initiated.
16:22 < dfcnvt> Not sure which file contain that.
16:22 < ayecee> maryo: sudo logs when it's used. if you know when the files were deleted, you can see who had used sudo around then.
16:22 < maryo> dfcnvt, we can see the user history by navigating to the user bash_history which is usually located at /home/user/.bash_history
16:22 < dfcnvt> Okay, check.
16:23 < dfcnvt> Now I think it's best by looking at which tty was using (to differiate) and which ip address it was accessing from.
16:26 < dfcnvt> maryo: /var/log/secure
16:26 < dfcnvt> /var/adm/messages
16:26 < kerframil> maryo: bash HISTFILE is not good enough to be an auditing mechanism. perhaps look at the "I/O LOG FILES" section in the sudoers(5) man page.
16:27 < dfcnvt> I think pinky command can tell where it's from (IP address or physical access)
16:27 < kerframil> maryo: and don't allow people to login directly as root; require elevation to root via sudo
16:28 < maryo> kerframil, yep noted o/
16:28 < maryo> kerframil, basically no user has direct root access. They login as local user and switch to root using "sudo su -"
16:28 < kerframil> maryo: that should be sudo -i, but good
16:31 < BSODjunkie> Hi, I'm a Windows user looking to learn linux, is installing a native version of linux on a spare SSD I have a good idea for me to learn it or should I stick to windows subsystem or virtual machines?
16:31 < RedRose> I would personally dual-boot rather than using a virtual machine.
16:31 < SilverMight> Same here
16:31 < TRS-80> BSODjunkie: +1
16:31 < pingfloyd> put windows in the virtual machine
16:32 < BSODjunkie> Okay, instead of dual booting I'm just going to use an external SSD via USB -C
16:32 < pingfloyd> have you host be linux
16:32 < kerframil> wsl has its uses but it isn't linux
16:32 < screwsss> 256-bit AES encryption <- is it tough to crack ?
16:32 < pingfloyd> wsl is crap
16:32 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: To learn the use of Linux -- can be done through virtual machine. Or through the use of liveDistro on physical machine (No installation made)
16:32 < pingfloyd> I took it for a spin and it was so lacking
16:32 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: Thoughts on me installing a persistent ubuntu on external SSD connected via USB-C
16:32 < RedRose> Sounds good, BSODjunkie
16:33 < BSODjunkie> that way my internal drive has windows 10, my external ubuntu.
16:33 < RedRose> Oh, except... don't use Ubuntu.
16:33 < TRS-80> BSODjunkie: there is some little weirdness and other things around VMs and Windows subsystem, besides why bother when you can have unadulterated pure GNU/Linux experience?
16:33 < RedRose> Canonical data-mines its users.
16:33 < TRS-80> what RedRose said +1
16:33 < BSODjunkie> oh okay, what do you recommend? I thought ubuntu might be good idea since that's what's on server I have
16:33 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: That too can be done -- by installing the linux OS in paritition or separate SSD drive.
16:33 < RedRose> BSODjunkie: Manjaro?
16:33 < RedRose> I prefer Arch but it can be a bit daunting for newbies
16:34 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: Yea I am getting a 250gb MX500 SSD in an enclosure, going to partition it and install linux, then boot from USB
16:34 < RedRose> Manjaro is a simpler Arch.
16:34 < TRS-80> BSODjunkie: Ubuntoo is an African word for "can't into Debian package management"
16:34 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: Ubuntu is a good start but I recommended you go through it all to fully realize what they are.
16:34 < Psi-Jack> No, Manjaro is horribly buggy arch.
16:34 < Psi-Jack> And not even arch.
16:34 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: This is the best list to check out and learn what each purpose they are -- https://livecdlist.com/
16:34 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: I only thought ubuntu because that's what my server uses.
16:34 < RedRose> Is it? Oh, OK, Psi-Jack. I won't recommend it anymore then. I thought it was a good way for newbies to have up-to-date packages, unlike, for example, Mint.
16:34 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: That's fine.  You are just learning and making ways.
16:35 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: I'm primarily into the sciences, thoughts? I am a mathematician
16:35 < Psi-Jack> RedRose: It's got quite a few problems with a limited community working on it.
16:35 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: All the better to check the livecdlist.com
16:35 < RedRose> I see
16:35 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: Thank you
16:35 < Psi-Jack> Worse, a community that barely seems to have knowledge or will to help others.
16:35 < RedRose> What distro do you recommend for BSODjunkie, Psi-Jack?
16:35 < Psi-Jack> Any major distro. :p
16:35 < dfcnvt> You can click the 'Purpose' on whichever areas you're interested in. Science in this case would be here:  https://livecdlist.com/purpose/science/
16:35 < pingfloyd> scientific linux?
16:36 < dfcnvt> Just play and play with it to get some idea.
16:36 < ayecee> for science!
16:36 < dfcnvt> :D
16:36 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: Can I ask why the list seems out-dated? It says last release 2016 but there seems to be new ones, does that matter?
16:37 < dfcnvt> I suppose it is outdated.   They still work nonetheless.
16:37 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: I don't know much about linux distros but I'm guessing I want to use one that has active development. Especially because I have a 4k monitor on 15.6 inch device
16:37 < TRS-80> where is a good site to search for available domain names?
16:37 < BSODjunkie> do they all generally have good DPI scaling?
16:38 < RedRose> Psi-Jack: I don't like recommending Mint or Debian since their packages are terribly out of date. Arch is my favorite but it's a bit more complicated. Slackware and Gentoo are too hard. I'm stuck as far as recommending a distro for users with limited experience.
16:38 < ayecee> ubuntu
16:38 < ayecee> easy peasy
16:38 < RedRose> Ubuntu data-mines its users
16:38 < Psi-Jack> RedRose: I usually recommend Fedora.
16:38 < RedRose> Oh, OK, Psi-Jack. Cool :)
16:38 < ayecee> m'lady
16:38 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: I think it's best by first thinking about which base you want (Fedora, Ubuntu, Arch, Debian, etc etc)
16:39 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: to explore the differences do I just read their wikis or how are they compared?
16:39 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: Then second, think in term of which package has some scientific intruments that works for your base.
16:39 < Juesto> looking up distros can help you
16:39 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: Whatever works.
16:39 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: okay i'll do some more research thanks
16:39 < TRS-80> by far the worst offense though is Ubuntu (and similar downstream distros like Mint, etc.) also take one of the best and most important features of Debian and treats it like a bug
16:39 < Juesto> there's solus, funtoo
16:40 < Juesto> even a kde focused distro
16:40 < ayecee> the further you drift from the mainstream, the harder it's going to be for "a user with limited experience"
16:40 < TRS-80> Juesto: I would say WM would be next choice after distro
16:40 < TRS-80> ayecee: +1
16:41 < Juesto> ^_^
16:41 < BSODjunkie> One more question, does my choice of distro affect how I can interact with others? By that I mean if my employer uses a different one is that an issue or are they all similar?
16:41 < pankaj> Is their any minimalistic way to play videos on tty? Like I have used mplayer to play videos but is their any more minimalistic way to do this?
16:41 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: More cleaner and straightforward -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions
16:42 < apteryx> hello! Potentially off-topic (please tell me of a better channel if you know one :): Is there a tool that can help me provision a VM image *from scratch*? I.e., take an ISO from some URL and do a bunch of operations on it to setup SSH, applications, configs, etc, with the result being a VM image compatible with QEMU or VirtualBox
16:42 < NewbProgrammer10> That's not the complete list, dfcnvt, lol.
16:42 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: thanks
16:42 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: You can see the tree on the right-side (in wiki) to see how they evolved.
16:42 < NewbProgrammer10> distrowatch.com, I believe, has a much bigger list of Linux distributions.
16:43 < dfcnvt> ^
16:43 < sybariten> WHen runningHey!
16:43 < sybariten> uh
16:43 < TRS-80> BSODjunkie: how much do you care about freedom?
16:43 < sybariten> Hey!
16:43 < tvm> pankaj, you are going to need a player, i'd recommend using mpv, which is console based and has a bunch of different VO drivers
16:43 < BSODjunkie> TRS-80: I don't quite know what you mean by freedom
16:43 < dfcnvt> Alright let's focus on maryo
16:43 < sybariten> WHen running tmux, is there a startup option to start something in the window that gets created?
16:43 < dfcnvt> maryo: How's it going?  Are you able to improve your trackability?
16:44 < NewbProgrammer10> sybariten: .bashrc?
16:44 < TRS-80> BSODjunkie: are you aware the difference between "open source" and "free software"? small but important one
16:44 < likcoras> sybariten: iirc, the -c option in the 'new' subcommand. I
16:44 < likcoras> check out the manpage.
16:44 < BSODjunkie> TRS-80: Yes but I am also aware that some open-source isn't widely used by employers
16:44 < sybariten> Like in my case i'm always starting tmux on a rebooted machine, and then i'm starting emacs from inside that tmux session by doing "emacs -nw" .... would be sweeter to do it in one line
16:44 < sybariten> likcoras: thanks
16:44 < sybariten> NewbProgrammer10: hmmm unsure
16:45 < BSODjunkie> TRS-80: if it's between open source or not I prefer open source, but in the end I want to learn what helps me on my CV
16:45 < BSODjunkie> TRS-80: Not much point learning an open source software if it then never gets used in my work.
16:45 < ayecee> constant velocity
16:45 < TRS-80> BSODjunkie: because this also will influence your choice of distro
16:45 < NewbProgrammer10> BSOD junkie: open source is more open and encourages competition; whereas, free software (under GPL in this case) is very restrictive on the philosophy, how you can't link to a GPL'd project without it being GPL, etc.
16:46 < NewbProgrammer10> *without your project being GPL
16:46 < NewbProgrammer10> To me, the license is a virus.
16:46 < BSODjunkie> NewbProgrammer10: I understand that but in the end my choice is primarily influenced by what the job market wants from me.
16:46 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: When it comes to diving into the Linux sphere -- usually it's best to think as if we're eating or tasting the distro -- than to describe what they are.  Just try them ALL to fully realize what they are.
16:47 < NewbProgrammer10> BSOD junkie: good choice :)
16:47 < BSODjunkie> dfcnvt: Okay thanks, one dumb question but, they all have basically the same commands right?
16:47 < dfcnvt> BSODjunkie: Oh also -- best you learn the package management...some distro differ.
16:47 < dfcnvt> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_package_management_systems
16:47 < Frith> BSODjunkie: Yes.
16:47 < Frith> The only reason to worry about a distro is for the application you want to run.
16:47 < TRS-80> NewbProgrammer10: BSODjunkie referring to GPL as "restrictive" is a very narrow viewpoint, only from the perspective of software developer, whilst disregarding the entire ecosystem which allowed it to evolve in the first place
16:47 < NewbProgrammer10> My favorite is Portage.
16:47 < sybariten> likcoras: uh... well apparently this isnt how it works... although my manpage says something about -c       tmux new -s edit -c "emacs -nw"
16:48 < dfcnvt> I use apt-get all time.... (on debian, ubuntu and whichever else) but whenever I'm on arch or fedora -- they're a different package manager.. Like yum
16:48 < TRS-80> BSODjunkie: here check this out and form your own opinion: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.en.html
16:48 < dfcnvt> lol, we're throwing lot of goodie info to BSODjunkie.
16:48 < BSODjunkie> TRS-80: I'll read through it, I am already pro-open-source obviously, I am just not willing to sacrifice employability for it.
16:48 < NewbProgrammer10> TRS-80: yes, GPL does apply very well in things like the Linux kernel, but it's very harmful in fields like gaming.
16:49 < TRS-80> NewbProgrammer10: I'm afraid you've got that backwards friend, it's the proprietary folks who are harmful
16:49 < likcoras> sybariten: check out the manpage, then? hold on...
16:49 < revel> Harmful how?
16:49 < likcoras>      new-session [-AdDEP] [-c start-directory] [-F format] [-n window-name] [-s session-name] [-t target-session] [-x width] [-y height] [shell-command]
16:49 < likcoras> apparently.
16:50 < RedRose> If you're looking for skills to put on your CV/resume, go for CentOS or Debian probably, you can't go wrong saying you have expertise with those distros for server admin type jobs.
16:50 < NewbProgrammer10> TRS-80: but... being proprietary helps them make money for a living. If your source code is freely in the open and you charge money for it, someone can easily just fork it and either make it free (moneywise), or charge even higher.
16:51 < NewbProgrammer10> Few people are going to buy free software. Instead, they can *easily* fork it.
16:51 < NewbProgrammer10> (Not the case in GPL2)
16:51 < NewbProgrammer10> But every other license, yeah.
16:51 < dfcnvt> Proprietary, in many senses -- are limited to what they can provide.
16:51 < TRS-80> revel: the only reason we can have any nice things at all, is because of free software, and the philosophy behind it, without which none of this (Linux, etc.) none of it would be possible at all
16:52 < revel> NewbProgrammer10: And this doesn't apply to the Linux kernel? Besides, you can have an open-source engine and have the game assets themselves be proprietary, that's what I've generally seen.
16:52 < NewbProgrammer10> And that's good.
16:52 < NewbProgrammer10> The engine creator makes money off of his content.
16:53 < BSODjunkie> Right I'm just going to install Kali so I can pretend to be mr. robot
16:53 < RedRose> Fair enough
16:53 < NewbProgrammer10> Money and credit is the world's currency.\
16:53 < TRS-80> at this point in our history, so called "Intellectual Property" is being used to block any and all competition and deny new entrants into many fields, it has nothing to do with the creator but everything to do with huge multinational corporations owning everything
16:53 < dfcnvt> lol -- kali do has all the security tool
16:53 < NewbProgrammer10> BSODjunkie: you can easily get hacked since everything is via root.
16:53 < noodlepie> Install Debian or Gentoo
16:53 < NewbProgrammer10> ^
16:53 < BSODjunkie> yea just kidding haha.
16:53 < Psi-Jack> No, kali does not have /all/ the security "tools". :p
16:54 < noodlepie> apart from GUIX-SD there the only distributions I use.
16:54 < BSODjunkie> only security tool I need is McAfee
16:54 < noodlepie> Debian for binary packages, and Gentoo for control of everything from source packages
16:54 < noodlepie> New machines like Gentoo!
16:54 < dfcnvt> Psi-Jack: Not ALL...but has MOST of the tools.
16:54 < NewbProgrammer10> TRS-80: ... how?
16:54 < Psi-Jack> No, Not even "most"
16:54 < dfcnvt> :|
16:54 < RedRose> If you're interested in a totally free distro, you can install Debian without contrib and non-free, or you can pick from the FSF list (Trisquel, PureOS, etc.)
16:55 < noodlepie> Getnoo has a free version - only install free packages!
16:55 < RedRose> Oh, fair enough
16:55 < RedRose> Gentoo is difficult.
16:55 < NewbProgrammer10> No.
16:55 < RedRose> I've used it, it's a pain in the ass to install and I couldn't get audio working.
16:55 < revel> dfcnvt: I wouldn't say that Kali itself is very secure. I think it had passwordless sudo, for instance.
16:55 < dfcnvt> Psi-Jack: Well, it has all the audit tools...than the...say the IDS, IPS, monitoring tools
16:56 < NewbProgrammer10> Documentation makes it not difficult, RedRose.
16:56 < noodlepie> Gentoo is fun and once you works out what it's doing, it actaully easier than managing source packages yourself
16:56 < BSODjunkie> Okay 1 more question, so from what I'm reading something like fedora scientific is just fedora with scientific stuff pre-installed, whats the point of that? aren't they easy to install?
16:56 < Psi-Jack> dfcnvt: No, it does not.
16:56 < dfcnvt> revel: Right, all by default, but if by installation that can be made to better secure.
16:56 < noodlepie> And packages tend to appear for Gentoo before Debian in many cases
16:56 < TRS-80> NewbProgrammer10: the "Intellectual Property" (which is actually a propaganda term deliberately mixing together separate areas of law and history such as patents, copyright, etc.) is very closely related to the debate of free vs open source software, for instance check this out :BSODjunkie: here check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States check out the chart about halfway down on right
16:56 < NewbProgrammer10> Does kali have wifite?
16:56 < revel> RedRose: I've used it as well and audio works wonderfully and, aside from the time it takes, it's not really a pain to install.
16:56 < Psi-Jack> NewbProgrammer10: Ask #kali or #kalilinux, not sure which they are.
16:57 < revel> Probably forgot some kernel modules or didn't use PulseAudio.
16:57 < RedRose> OK, revel. I don't know what I did wrong, but I deleted it and installed Arch, which gives you all the funcionality of Gentoo via the Arch Build System.
16:57 < dfcnvt> Alright alright, I don't have sufficient strength to say something about kali...I'm just biased when it comes to kali.
16:57 < Psi-Jack> You mean, uninformed.
16:57 < dfcnvt> I used to have Knoppix when I was young, made way to backtrack, then onto kali.
16:58 < infinisil> Obligatory for Kali: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/399626/why-is-kali-linux-so-hard-to-set-up-why-wont-people-help-me
16:58 < dfcnvt> Psi-Jack: sigh, I guess yes I was uninformed.
16:58 < TRS-80> NewbProgrammer10: similarly there are a handful of huge tech companies who own all the patents and cross license with each other, and this prevents any new entrants to the market. It is all about forming anti-competitive cartels, and nothing at all to do with
16:58 < TRS-80> ... "protecting the author" as is often put forth
16:58 < ayecee> soapboxing in progress
16:59 < ayecee> stand clear
16:59 < Frith> I've got a bunch of patents to my name.  They're fun to write.
16:59 < RedRose> Screw it, just install Arch, I can't think of a good reason not to use it, especially if you have new hardware, since it lets you easily compile any package.
17:00  * TRS-80 is willing to bear the slings and arrows
17:01 < noodlepie> Frith, can we use them in our Free softwarez?
17:01 < noodlepie> @:P-~
17:01 < Frith> noodlepie: Sadly, I'm not the one to answer since I have assigned them to my employer.
17:01 < BSODjunkie> RedRose: Are you talking to me?
17:01 < revel> RedRose: Wanting to use any architecture other than x86_64 is a good reason.
17:01 < BCMM> NewbProgrammer10: i wanna point out that real Debian has wifite
17:02 < TRS-80> revel: the future of freedom ;)
17:02 < dfcnvt> maryo: How's it going?   Able to track it?
17:02 < RedRose> Yeah, sorry, forgot the mention, BSODjunkie. Arch is the distro I recommend for you, I've had a flawless experience with it for months now, after switching from Slackware.
17:02 < noodlepie> Frith, yeah, they rob you like that! :P
17:02 < Frith> noodlepie: Well, I was paid quite a bit. ;)
17:02 < BCMM> there doesn't have to be a distro that comes preconfigured out-of-the-box for any given task - `apt get wifite` is not difficult
17:02 < BSODjunkie> RedRose: I'll look into it thanks
17:02 < RedRose> revel: I'm assuming BSODjunkie has x86_64.
17:03 < maryo> dfcnvt, yep checking it. I will let you know in few minutes.
17:03 < revel> Well, you said you couldn't think of any single reaon.
17:03 < noodlepie> All my commercial work was published freely too, things like profile based random ad server with analytics, and a photo seller's search and lightbox management (in Zope)
17:03 < BSODjunkie> RedRose: yea I'm on an XPS 15 9560
17:03 < BSODjunkie> RedRose: One thing, my XPS is a bit annoying if I reinstall OS because it needs a bunch of drivers to function, like wireless drivers, is that an issue at all ?
17:03 < noodlepie> All my employers were really understanding when I explained the whole Free Software. I only had to use Linux in those jobs, nothing proprietary ourselves
17:04  * TRS-80 only financially supports business models based around freedom rather than proprietary lock in
17:04 < revel> Another would probably be "not being able to update daily" or maybe "wanting to be able to use multiple versions of the same package"
17:04 < revel> Or size restrictions on RAM/storage.
17:06 < TRS-80> noodlepie: it is beneficial for almost everyone, small to mid sized companies included, the only people who benefit from "IP" are huge *ahem*don't be*ahem* evil multinational corporations
17:07 < NewbProgrammer10> TRS-80: I considered, and your points are valid.
17:07 < noodlepie> Free software protects the interest of my clients too
17:07 < dfcnvt> Psi-Jack: Actually, let me get back to you -- name one distro that has the most security tools.  All related to networking security.
17:07 < Psi-Jack> All.
17:07 < dfcnvt> :|
17:08 < noodlepie> It means the service app suppliers won't go bust and stop providing updates. And it provides alternatives which can be used if some software stop being maintained
17:08 < noodlepie> These things add a twinkle to the eye's of employers looking to rationalise their workflows
17:08 < sybariten> likcoras: so just the command as it is, without any option qualifier
17:09 < sybariten> likcoras: yup that works... but why does my man page then say  -c shell-command      Execute shell-command using the default shell.          ?
17:10 < dfcnvt> Psi-Jack: So, ALL distro has metasploit?
17:10 < Psi-Jack> All
17:11 < dfcnvt> :|
17:11 < dfcnvt> maryo: How ye faring.
17:11 < noodlepie> I hate the "atheist" arguement that bsd is "freeer" can GPL asit lets your close sources into proprietary software.
17:12 < noodlepie> s/can/than
17:12 < TRS-80> I started playing with computers programming a TRS-80 in BASIC back in 3rd grade. I know some here been at it even longer than me but even in my time I have become so disgusted with the limitations of proprietary software, things change, go out of business as noodlepie just mentioned, formerly good projects start walling off and charging for more and more features once they become widely adopted, etc. The only way to protect
17:12 < TRS-80> yourself long term from such nonsense is to stick with F/LOSS software, preferably as free as possible, but do what you need to do within reason for work, etc. But I agree strongly with Stallman that we need to talk about free software, especially to end users.
17:14 < TRS-80> noodlepie: yes it's ridiculous. Those BSD "do whatever you want" open source style licenses allow Google to take everyone's hard work over years and create Android when they are in a pinch. And allow Apple to take BSD and create OSX, etc. Although, I realize this widens adoption, so maybe open source people are correct here. The world at this point is being eaten by open source. Which is all the more reason though to discuss free
17:14 < TRS-80> software and how it all began and how that benefits everyone.
17:15 < Frith> There's a bunch of real software that has no Open source equivalent, sadly.
17:15 < Frith> Or worse, the open source equivalent is laughable.
17:15 < noodlepie> Discussing Free Software is like Religiously discussing Jesus as a Friend :P
17:15 < likcoras> sybariten: not sure... Not really familiar with tmux, don't have it installed, to begin with.
17:16 < noodlepie> It's shared and interesting see? @:P-~
17:16 < dfcnvt> Aw man, we're not defending mindlessly -- there's a real reason for having such software with protection that it's not up for sale and remain to be an open source.
17:17 < TRS-80> Frith: I'm sure that's true in some situations but look how far we have come in the last 20 years alone. Did you ever think you would see M$ adding a Linux subsystem, or giving away their OS for free? There is where we are now, and where we are going and I think we need to keep our eye on the goal, continue to do what we can in the meantime, and simply even talking about free software and the difference to open source helps us all
17:17 < TRS-80> get there.
17:19 < sybariten> likcoras: okay well thanks anyhow
17:20 < TRS-80> especially with the tech nowadays, this is an issue that touches everyone as phones, internet, tech touch almost all parts of our daily lives and everything is essentially hardware with some software in it, now, does that software ultimately serve you the owner? or someone else?
17:20 < Frith> TRS-80: There's a difference between an OS (which is only run reluctantly -- if you had an option, nobody would pay for an OS), and the software that runs on it -- often which has an enormous amount of expertise poured into it over many, many years.
17:21 < TRS-80> nice short video and page here I like to share with normies who are new to the subject: https://www.fsf.org/about/what-is-free-software
17:21 < Frith> TRS-80: CAD software.  LabView.  FPGA synthesizers.
17:22 < dfcnvt> Frith: So, what's your stance? What's the argumentment here?  That Open Source is nonsense?
17:23 < Frith> dfcnvt: No.  My stand is that is is never as simple as "open vs. closed".
17:24 < woky> Hi. There is a program to convert HTML from stdin to XML to stdout (not xmllint). I forgot its name. Could you please help me remember?
17:24 < Frith> dfcnvt: Specifically, between closed software that as a large amount of interoperability and scripting, vs. open software that uses a home-baked format, I'll choose the closed version any day of the week.
17:24 < lavamind> hello, pretty specific ext4 question here: is it safe to mount with nobarrier when using an external journal sitting on a powerloss-protected block device (NVMe) ? or should the entire filesystem be procted in this way ?
17:24 < TRS-80> Frith: FreeCAD is very nice; the current front lines are very much pushing into hardware and silicon and all the "IP" around IP cores in silicon
17:25 < Frith> TRS-80: FreeCAD can barely view a doc produced by a Mechanical Engineer in AutoCAD.
17:26 < TRS-80> Frith: I'll give a counter example. Changed all our home computers to GNU/Linux based (including AOSP) and everything "just works" together because it's all based on open standards, which are designed for interoperability, instead of creating proprietary walled gardens
17:27 < TRS-80> Frith but that's not FreeCAD's fault. These companies go out of their way to break standards, maintain their proprietary walled gardeens, etc. Same with M$ and .DOC formats although that is not as bad as it used to be thanks to LibreOffice and open document formats.
17:27 < Frith> TRS-80: Are you doing a significant amount of FPGA coding or CAD exchange with external companies?
17:27 < woky> the tool is tidy
17:29 < TRS-80> Frith no I am not. However as I conceded already there is "what is reality now" vs "what could be" and that doesn't mean we should stop talking about "what could be" in fact I'm pretty sure that keep talking about the ideal is the only way to get there, one day. :)
17:29 < Frith> TRS-80: In many cases, it's not due to malicious attempts at breaking things.  In many cases, a newer format is "better" for any number of legitimate use cases.  The fact that someone else's code breaks due to that really shouldn't be the Doc format designer's problem.
17:30 < dfcnvt> I suppose there are complexity on what may evolve when one stick to the 'open' philosophy -- whereas the maturity in being open won't be as tall...verse the closed source that is full of control and can push such direction into an upward manner that can be as tall as it is.....That's the view I think you're holding.  I don't know whether to attack this subject of maturity and control that is fully
17:30 < dfcnvt> functional -- in which is viewed to be closed.  But then, what about git?  Git provide that trackability sort and control and those can be open source?
17:30 < TRS-80> Frith: US DOJ didn't haul M$ into court for antitrust because they were offering better features!
17:30 < fofalee> hello
17:30 < fofalee> what is the difference between ;& and ;;&
17:30 < fofalee> what is the difference between ;& and ;;&
17:31 < ayecee> ;
17:31 < Frith> TRS-80: No, they went anti-trust because they were effectively blocking other software from working.
17:31 < Frith> But that was a library issue.  And is also, sadly, 20 years ago.
17:32 < TRS-80> and that is what all these companies do, once they gain sufficient market share
17:32 < TRS-80> hence forks, etc.
17:32 < sveinse> Does any of you know about a small lightweight command-line app for filtering and sorting email on a remote IMAP server?
17:32 < ayecee> mutt
17:32 < TRS-80> NextCloud forking from OwnCloud is a good eexample
17:33 < fofalee> ayecee: ;;& how is it diffferent from ;&
17:33 < ayecee> fofalee: ;
17:33 < fofalee> ayecee: ??
17:33 < ayecee> no, ;
17:33 < fofalee> in bash
17:33 < ayecee> ask a context-free question, get a context-free answer.
17:33 < TRS-80> Frith: here is another more recent example (since you mentioned "20 years ago": https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/
17:34 < sveinse> ayecee: I thought mutt was a local email-reader? I might be mistaking? Can it be run without interaction?
17:34 < ayecee> sveinse: it can do imap, and it can be scripted.
17:34 < fofalee> bash -c "case go in cool) echo ha ;& yes) echo ya;;& esac
17:35 < felix_vs> I use Linx Mint and I went to TTY mode. how do I change the used font? how do I add syntax highlighting?
17:35 < felix_vs> for instance user@hostname I want to be highlighted
17:35 < TRS-80> I seen it countless times since programming my first TRS-80 in BASIC all those years ago, hence my strong preference for and proseletyzing on behalf of free software and especially the underlying philosophy behind it (once I really learned what it was all about)
17:36 < ayecee> fofalee: see case..esac section in bash manpage.
17:37 < ayecee> easy way to find it is to search for esac, there's only a few of those in the doc.
17:38 < newpy> I'm shopping around for a desk chair, any opinions?
17:38 < ayecee> go to an office supply store
17:38 < ayecee> not a linux channel
17:38 < newpy> not sure what to prioritize for long bouts of programming, gaming, etc
17:38 < fofalee> ayecee: I read it, I didn't get it
17:38 < fofalee> so I asked
17:38 < ayecee> fofalee: what part did you not get
17:39 < fofalee> I read the manual
17:39 < Frith> newpy: Standing desk!
17:39 < newpy> join ##programming
17:39 < newpy> oops
17:39 < fofalee> that part with ;;& and ;&
17:39 < TRS-80> newpy: IKEA MARKUS, the poor man's ergonomic chair, 10 yr warranty, leather, $199, you're welcome
17:39 < fofalee> come on guys
17:39 < ayecee> fofalee: what part of the description did you not understand
17:39 < fofalee> I just needed some friends
17:39 < newpy> TRS-80: ty
17:40 < dfcnvt> newpy: check on craigslist and go about finding it.  ANY desk or chair will do -- depend on your preference.
17:40 < dfcnvt> newpy: folding table, maybe?
17:40 < Frith> TRS-80: As someone who also started out on a TRS-80, I have taken the easier path.  I learned how to stop worrying and love the corporation.
17:40 < newpy> dfcnvt, I'm going cheap on the desk since this isn't a permanent place and I don't want to move something big
17:40 < ayecee> dr strangefrith
17:41 < dfcnvt> newpy: Then folding table should be portable.
17:41 < Frith> ayecee: ;)
17:41 < dfcnvt> plastic.
17:41 < newpy> dfcnvt, yea that's what I was thinking
17:41 < fofalee> If the ;; operator is used, no subsequent matches are attempted  after  the  first  pattern  match.
17:41 < fofalee>               Using  ;&  in  place  of  ;; causes execution to continue with the list associated with the next set of patterns.
17:41 < fofalee>               Using ;;& in place of ;; causes the shell to test the next pattern list in the statement, if any, and execute any
17:41 < fofalee>               associated list on a successful match.
17:41 < fofalee> it didn't say ;;& what does it do
17:41 < newpy> dfcnvt, but I want to spend a bit more on the chair since it'll be the same size regardless for the move, plus long hours of posture
17:41 < ayecee> fofalee: it says exactly what it does.
17:42 < Frith> newpy: By the way, I'm not kidding -- standing desk.
17:42 < ayecee> fofalee: you have to read it, not just copy/paste it.
17:42 < TRS-80> dfcnvt: I disagree. Long stretches on computer require ergonomic chairs, which unfortunately are expensive. IKEA MARKUS is one solution for a nice chair you can be in for many hours at as stretch and won't break the bank. Standing or adjustable desk is another. Office supply stores, like everything else nowadays are filled with overpriced garbage.
17:42 < newpy> frith, that sounds like a nightmare :P
17:43 < dfcnvt> My my, I guess there's a sensitivity to use of desk or chair.
17:43 < dfcnvt> I wouldn't go fo glass table -- ugh, no.
17:43 < fofalee> ayecee: ok
17:43 < ayecee> go for a programming hammock
17:43 < newpy> Frith, maybe I could get an adjustable table, so I could stand and use now and then
17:43 < ayecee> increases productivity
17:43 < dfcnvt> wooden table -- but in newpy case, he move home to home around much..so folding table make sense.
17:43 < fofalee> ;;& falls through but only if the next case matches, but so does with ;& ... the next statement is checked if it matches or not
17:44 < fofalee> just like ;;& ... that is the part that I don't get
17:44 < TRS-80> Frith: I still have a lot of fight left in me. But then again I don't work in the industry, so I don't have to make any compromises just to remain sane and keep earning a paycheck. Cheers friend. :)
17:44 < dfcnvt> Any office chair but just cheap and used.
17:45 < ayecee> fofalee: ;& falls through to the next case option. ;;& goes to the next case iteration. that's how i read it.
17:45 < ayecee> fofalee: from your example, cool) would fall through to yes), and yes) would process the next element in $go
17:46 < TRS-80> OK I need to get back to homework... g'day all
17:46 < dfcnvt> g'day
17:47 < dfcnvt> I was thinking of going out to eat....what to eat, what to eat...
17:47 < ayecee> burritos ofc
17:47 < dfcnvt> Brilliant!
17:48 < infinisil> You mean Monads?
17:49 < ayecee> that's a funny way of spelling burrito
17:49 < dfcnvt> I hope the restaurant around here is open (since it's Memorial Day)
17:49 < Drakonan> What is the best router software i can use for an arm based system on a chip / single board computer?
17:50 < dfcnvt> Drakonan: Off the top of my head, OpenWrt, DD-Wrt
17:50 < Frith> For the record -- I do work in industry, and I've made compromises to earn a paycheck.  But, as the saying goes, "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?  Aside from a nice vacation, first class flights, and a jet ski, of course?"
17:50 < dfcnvt> Drakonan: List of existing firmware for router -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_router_firmware_projects
17:50 < Drakonan> Are they ok as just a router?
17:50 < Drakonan> I don't need wlan im using a r7000 in ap mode
17:51 < ayecee> money can't buy happiness, but it lets you choose your form of misery.
17:51 < Drakonan> im really looking for advanced hfsc style qos
17:51 < dfcnvt> Or that, just leave it alone as it is...Unless it's the project for fun.
17:51 < Frith> ayecee: And really, I don't need to buy it.  I only need to rent it for a few decades.
17:51 < Drakonan> well half fun half i hope it will help my crappy dsl modem situation... its locking up from time to time and doesn't let me in the console
17:51 < Drakonan> if it was in bridged mode it wouldn't matter as much
17:51 < ayecee> heh
17:52 < NewbProgrammer10> Question; when I ssh into a client and execute something, how do I keep that something running after I exit the ssh session?
17:52 < Drakonan> hfsc part is the fun part and i like pretty graphs :)
17:52 < NewbProgrammer10> Please...
17:52 < Drakonan> screen?
17:52 < NewbProgrammer10> What?
17:52 < fofalee>  cas(){ case froglet in fro*) pwd;& f*) ls;; esac; } vs  cas(){ case froglet in fro*) pwd;;& f*) ls;; esac; }
17:52 < fofalee> ayecee: it's the same output , as I said ;& too matches pattern after case falling...
17:52 < fofalee> it's just a bunch of confusing words that I don't get
17:52 < dfcnvt> NewbProgrammer10: Just plain 'exit'
17:52 < Drakonan> there is a "new screen sessoin" command and a return to session screen command
17:53 < dfcnvt> (right?)
17:53 < Drakonan> the screen lives one when your session doesn't
17:56 < dfcnvt> NewbProgrammer10: Oh, I re-read your question -- so, you want to execute something and leave it in the corner -- at the same time close your session but leave that executable program in the background?
17:56 < dfcnvt> NewbProgrammer10: I think this is the same question you're having:  https://askubuntu.com/questions/8653/how-to-keep-processes-running-after-ending-ssh-session
17:57 < Sitri> NewbProgrammer10: If you want to see it later: GNU screen or tmux.  If you don't care: Ctrl+Z + bg command
17:58 < BlueProtoman> I'm running Ubuntu 18.04.  When I run certain commands (I'm not sure which ones yet, or under which conditions), I get this warning about insecure environment variables.  https://pastebin.com/fqCdQEMU  What does this mean, and how can I fix it?
17:58 < armin> out of curiosity: does it have anything to do with QEMU?
17:59 < BlueProtoman> armin: Me?
17:59 < armin> yea
17:59 < armin> the ID you got from pastebin ends in QEMU
17:59 < armin> coincidence?
17:59 < BlueProtoman> Total coincidence, I'm not using qemu in any way
17:59 < armin> wow.
18:00 < djph> don't use insecure environment variables?  although /usr/bin/rm sounds like it's a custom script --- mine's /bin/rm
18:00 < fofalee> ayecee: stop being a burrito troll
18:00 < dfcnvt> armin: It's the url you're looking at -- unique id. nothing to do with BlueProtoman's problem.
18:00 < armin> BlueProtoman: when exactly are you getting that output? what did you run?
18:00 < dfcnvt> Would be funny if it is and yet just pure coincedience.
18:01 < BlueProtoman> armin: I ran a script to install software from a known trustworthy provider, and I also removed some files
18:01 < armin> BlueProtoman: did you ask the "known trustworthy provider"?
18:02 < NewbProgrammer10> dfcnvt: thanks!
18:02 < BlueProtoman> dfcnvt, armin: No, because I noticed this issue when running software totally unrelated to this provider (and before I installed this software)
18:02 < dfcnvt> NewbProgrammer10: No problem -- this help me too. I've been pondering about this long ago.
18:02 < armin> i mean you *know* him, you consider him *trustworthy* and you run a *script* that he provides which does weird things.
18:03 < BlueProtoman> armin: It's Private Internet Access, a renowned VPN.  Look, they're not the issue.
18:03 < Sitri> Yeah, rm doesn't normally produce any output that looks like that
18:03 < dfcnvt> BlueProtoman: What are you trying to do?  What's the goal here?
18:03 < djph> BlueProtoman: you appear to have replaced your 'rm' command with a script in /usr/bin.
18:03 < armin> Sitri: exactly
18:03 < Sitri> djph: Most distro's decided that everything belongs in /usr
18:03 < BlueProtoman> djph: You're right, it's symlinked to /usr/bin/safe-rm
18:04 < BlueProtoman> dfcnvt: Figure out the implications of this warning
18:04 < Frith> Nothing suspicious about that. ;)
18:04 < djph> Sitri: I have NEVER seen (proper) rm be where it doesn't belong.
18:04 < phogg> BlueProtoman: those errors are what you get from a Perl script with taint mode (-t) enabled.
18:04 < dfcnvt> BlueProtoman: How did you came to have this?  Did you run something and this produce error?
18:04 < Frith> It's probably a version of rm that doesn't really delete the file, but rather relinks them to a "garbage" folder.
18:04 < armin> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/man1/safe-rm.1.html
18:04 < armin> o.O
18:05 < Sitri> djph: /bin /sbin /usr/sbin end up being symlinks to /usr/bin, which means /bin/rm still exists.
18:05 < BlueProtoman> Frith: Nope, it just stops me from deleting certain directories by mistake
18:05 < dfcnvt> I see.
18:05 < armin> that's an ubuntuism and *not* derived from debian. ask your distribution or your provider of packages.
18:05 < djph> Sitri: not over here it isn't.
18:05 < Sitri> djph: Hence "most"?
18:05 < snuggie> lol
18:05 < Frith> I have other ways around that, but it really isn't the issue here.
18:06 < phogg> everything in /usr is a ridiculous concept
18:06 < BlueProtoman> It *is* a Perl script...
18:06 < Juesto> Frith: no, it doesn't delete it if it's in the blacklist
18:06 < snuggie> I should make a Gentoon
18:06 < Sitri> phogg: agreed
18:07 < armin> yeah, i always wanted a distribution that prevents me from doing what i want because the distribution considers me stupid enough to accidentally rm stuff.
18:07 < djph> phogg: sounds like ubuntu- or mint- or "easy(tm)"-thinking
18:07 < armin> coolbeans.
18:07 < BlueProtoman> phogg, djph, armin: Yes, I explicitly said I use Ubuntu
18:08 < BlueProtoman> I use it because one time I accidentally deleted the contents of /usr/local
18:08 < BlueProtoman> "it" being safe-rm
18:08 < snuggie> wtf is safe-rm
18:08 < Sitri> snuggie: <armin> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/man1/safe-rm.1.html
18:08 < snuggie> I think nautilus should have a safe-delete button lol
18:08 < armin> snuggie: considered KDE? ;)
18:08 < snuggie> Guys we need safe-chown and safe-chmod too
18:09 < BlueProtoman> snuggie: It does (moves things to trash), but it's not useful if you use the terminal.  :)
18:09 < snuggie> I've seen too many people do 777 to their root
18:09 < Sitri> Ughh
18:09 < Sitri> I spent an hour here a few months ago trying to convince someone to not do that
18:09 < dfcnvt> Perhaps ask for a copy of files in /usr/local and paste it in there -- that'll revert the systematic problem back to normal
18:09 < snuggie> xD
18:10 < BlueProtoman> dfcnvt: Me?
18:10 < phogg> djph: the idea was pushed for fedora originally and is done because systemd can't cope without a merged /usr.
18:10 < dfcnvt> BlueProtoman: yea, but I have NO way of knowing if that will solve the problem.
18:10 < BlueProtoman> dfcnvt: That was ages ago.  As of right now, my /usr/local directory is totally fine
18:10 < snuggie> I don't have a /usr/local directory lol
18:10 < BlueProtoman> dfcnvt: And I consider a mix of more careful tab-completion and safe-rm to be responsible for that
18:11 < phogg> BlueProtoman: Paranoia solves the problem.
18:11 < djph> phogg: and yet this is somehow considered "the best init daemon"
18:11 < phogg> djph: ikr
18:11 < devilchaos> hi need a little info on extracting a file i have to wirte as an image to an sdard please. the file is afile.image.xz ???
18:11 < snuggie> ls /usr/local - ls: cannot access '/usr/local': No such file or directory
18:12 < dfcnvt> BlueProtoman: I guess, this is what you play with -- https://launchpad.net/safe-rm
18:12 < phogg> as an init daemon it's not great, as a service supervisor it is so-so, and then there's a grab bag of a zillion other features stuffed in there too
18:12 < snuggie> memes
18:12 < snuggie> /usr/local isn't needed
18:12 < phogg> devilchaos: uncompress it then use dd (probably)
18:12 < phogg> snuggie: it is if you manually install things
18:12 < snuggie> Nah I just use /apps lol
18:13 < devilchaos> i cant uncompress as it is a unknown icon type
18:13 < snuggie> I deleted /usr/local, made /apps and then symlinked /opt to /apps
18:13 < phogg> devilchaos: .xz indicates that it was compressed with xz(1), use unxz to decompress
18:13 < dfcnvt> :(
18:13 < devilchaos> if it was and archive type it would have the right icon for it
18:13 < devilchaos> ah
18:13 < phogg> devilchaos: xz is just like gz or bz2 or Z, another better compression scheme.
18:13 < phogg> devilchaos: it's not an archive type it's a compression algorithm.
18:14 < snuggie> I also made a /hdd and /ssd for permanently mounted hard drives
18:14 < devilchaos> i c
18:14 < snuggie> Since /mnt isn't supposed to be used for perm mounts
18:14 < phogg> devilchaos: an archive would be e.g. .tar.xz (tar + xz)
18:14 < phogg> snuggie: you can use it however you please
18:14 < devilchaos> agree thanks for info
18:14 < Celmor> is it normal for monitors I plug in after boot that they can't be used later? in xorg when using xrandr I see its configuration but can't seem to be able to inable it
18:14 < dfcnvt> I get people ask specific question and simply wants answer to that specific question -- the nature of error as shown in the url's file.   But man, did I misdirect in such a direction that doesn't answer to BlueProtoman's question.
18:15 < phogg> snuggie: but for permanent mounts you should mount at a location that needs the same. For example I have a partition mounted on this laptop under /home/pub/games because it's rather large
18:15 < lavamind> hello, pretty specific ext4 question here: is it safe to mount with nobarrier when using an external journal sitting on a powerloss-protected block device (NVMe) ? or should the entire filesystem be procted in this way ?
18:15 < dfcnvt> I perceive herein now that he's not happy. :\
18:15 < snuggie> @Phogg I have /hdd/Storage/Games lol
18:16 < dfcnvt> I'll take my leave - I'm hogging.
18:16 < phogg> dfcnvt: I gave him his specific answer. His error message is a Perl taint mode message.
18:16 < dfcnvt> Ah
18:17 < phogg> Celmor: If xrandr can see it you can start using it, at least most of the time.
18:17 < snuggie> I think mounting drives underneath a /home is a bit awko taco
18:17 < snuggie> What if other users want to use the same drive?
18:17 < snuggie> They have to search through your home? Seems a bit convoluted
18:17 < phogg> snuggie: I mount them where they are needed for space. Physical disk configuration should not relate to logical VFS layout
18:18 < RayTracer> lavamind: is the os also powerloss (and crash..) protected? presuming the NVMe is decent speed, barriers shouldn't really hurt imho
18:18 < snuggie> I have permenant mounts in /hdd or /ssd and then put temporary mmounts like USB's etc in /mnt
18:18 < phogg> snuggie: It's weird and convoluted to make a directory called /storage. If it's files owned by your user put them in ~/
18:18 < snuggie> It's archived stuff and games so possibly? idk
18:19 < phogg> snuggie: you can do whatever you like, but it's silly to make the VFS reflect physical disks. The whole point is that you do not need to.
18:19 < snuggie> I mean it's like /dev kind of
18:19 < lavamind> RayTracer: the server has 2 PSUs hooked up to UPS
18:19 < snuggie> I can always symlink ~/Games to /hdd/Storage/Games
18:19 < djph> I mounted /usr/games to a different drive/partition.  But then that PC died, and I got bigger drives so ...
18:20 < lavamind> RayTracer: I thought so too but in my tests they make a big difference
18:20 < snuggie> I like having a single place where I can access the entire drive
18:20 < RayTracer> lavamind: sure, lots of things go faster if you omit any safeguards
18:20 < BCMM> at the risk of stating the obvious, "making the VFS reflect physical disks" is probably something that seems kind of instinctively right to habitual Windows users
18:20 < lavamind> RayTracer: probably because the barriers are propagated to the entire filesystem, including the 20 rotating platter disks in the raid10 array
18:21 < snuggie> ^ That's kind of true, but if I have to take my hard drive out and give it to someone, I'd like to actually see what's on it :p idk
18:21 < lavamind> RayTracer: the idea is to only omit safeguards which aren't required because of specific hardware characteristics
18:21 < RayTracer> lavamind: I don't understand, I thought you only had the nvme underneath the one filesystem
18:22 < lavamind> RayTracer: the filesystem sits on top of a raid10 array, only the journal is on NVMe
18:22 < RayTracer> ah, I see
18:22 < lavamind> RayTracer: according to the kernel docs, "Write barriers enforce proper on-disk ordering of journal commits"
18:23 < devilchaos> phogg: thanks for that working on it now :)
18:23 < lavamind> and AIUI a "journal commit" goes into... the journal ? no?
18:23 < lavamind> or does a journal commit encompass writes to the main filesystem area
18:23 < lavamind> that's the bit I'm not too clear on
18:24 < snuggie> phogg: Where do you think I should mount a hard drive dedicated to Games (Steam & Non-steam) as well as Backup/Archives?
18:24 < Frith> I vote "/tmp" because some of us just want to watch the world burn.
18:25 < prawnsalad> hello. running as root i cant seem to change a files owner. how can i get around this? - chown: changing ownership of './app/Http/Controllers/SupportController.php': Operation not permitted
18:25 < snuggie> jesus no :p
18:25 < nrg> /dev/null
18:26 < Juesto> prawnsalad: check extended attributes
18:26 < Juesto> or selinux if applicable
18:26 < prawnsalad> Juesto: how would i do that?
18:26 < Juesto> don't remember
18:27 < Sitri> prawnsalad: lsattr
18:27 < Sitri> Compare the results against a normal file to quickly sanity check
18:28 < prawnsalad> "-------------e--"
18:28 < prawnsalad> same as another file that i can modify
18:29 < Sitri> Check to see if there's a mount in there somewhere, might be a mount or FS limit
18:29 < snuggie> If I'm using a drive for multiple purposes, I think it makes more sense to have a /hdd/<Drive> mount and then symlink folders as necessary
18:29 < snuggie> Like... ~/Games -> /hdd/Storage/Games
18:33 < djph> to each their own
18:33 < djph> as long as you're not expecting something using the FHS to work if you've completely fucked it up
18:33  * aBound sips on his iced coffee :P
18:34 < brutser> hi, with kvm when i use macvtap i get a very bad connection, lots of issues, cannot connect irc for example - with NAT no problem obv. how can i troubleshoot macvtap to make this work? centos7
18:35 < azarus> brutser: maybe try tap networking
18:35 < azarus> macvlan has always given me trouble
18:36 < brutser> azarus: ok, maybe you can suggest me a good way to get this working -> i want the host eth not connected, for security reasons, instead i want to use the vm. how can i get this working without using macvlan?
18:38 < Sitri> Bridge the tap with the physical, don't give the host an IP?  (Haven't done VM networking in a while, but IIRC that should work)
18:39 < watom> hey. how you use /etc/profile.d/ ? i have a a file here with x permission and a "unset HISTFILE" inside
18:39 < watom> but i still get HISTFILE on a new shell setted
18:39 < djph> by definition, the host *must* be connected to the network
18:39 < brutser> djph: it is connected to the network, but i don't want it going out to the internet
18:40 < brutser> Sitri: hmm going to give that a try
18:40 < djph> that's also a bad plan - you gotta keep the VM host up to date too
18:40 < djph> but you can obviously lock it down pretty heavily
18:40 < watom> welp
18:41 < brutser> djph: can you lock it down to a point where only updates are allowed and passthru traffic from vms?
18:41 < djph> brutser: sure
18:41 < brutser> also if it's never connected to the outside, then updates won't matter that much, you can do them offline occasionally no?
18:41 < watom> nvm apparently my shell is just ignore all the profile stuff
18:41 < brutser> is that not what qubes is doing?
18:41 < brutser> dom0 is offline always
18:42 < watom> no. i'm wrong. only profile.d/*
18:42 < djph> there are attacks that can break a VM out of its container, so ... not updating the host isn't exactly a good plan
18:42 < brutser> the problem is that i am far from experienced enough to configure firewall on the host well enough, that is why i thought about locking it down
18:43 < brutser> what alternative do i have?
18:43 < brutser> except from learning whole firewall concepts
18:43 < kerframil> watom: however your operating system's /etc/profile expects you to use it. as the files are normally sourced, making the file executable probably won't have any effect.
18:44 < kerframil> watom: in other words, read /etc/profile to see if - and how - it is handled
18:44 < watom> kerframil: it run the files inside etc/profile.d
18:44 < watom> oooooooooh thank you
18:44 < kerframil> watom: I very much doubt it
18:44 < watom> it require the script to be .sh
18:45 < kerframil> watom: it probably sources them instead
18:45 < watom> the command is ". $i" sounds like running it
18:45 < watom> or is sourcing?
18:45 < kerframil> that's not execution
18:45 < watom> i see but thank you
18:45 < kerframil> . is source
18:45 < watom> the issue is that it check for .sh
18:45 < kerframil> right
18:45 < watom> weird thing but okay
18:45 < watom> solved
18:45 < revel> watom: Sourcing.
18:45 < revel> Source generally does execute things.
18:46 < revel> Depends on what you're sourcing, I guess.
18:46 < kerframil> execution would be useless, as any changes to the environment would be lost
18:46 < ayecee> this guy sources
18:46 < kerframil> and the shell variables too
18:46 < watom> it's fine i didn't except the .sh since profile is not profile.sh
19:05 < lovetruth> hello :)
19:05 < lovetruth> I know that this is not the best place to ask this... :) but I am a linux user and dunno where better to ask... :)
19:05 < lovetruth> there is a site where's no people, with possible gold being buried underneath. The area belongs to one of my friends. But the area is very big. Also, it can be various metals being buried underground... Is there any X-ray metal detector or something that can tell with better efficiency if there is gold there or not?... (maximum 0,3-2 meters I'd say...)
19:09 < djph> sure, but it'll cost you a fortune.
19:09 < lovetruth> djph: which one?... (didn't find one)
19:09 < djph> a ground-penetrating radar?
19:10 < djph> or...whatsit, surveying module?  they are (last I was aware) primarily available to proper mining companies (i.e. costing in the 10s of millions of USD)
19:11 < lovetruth> well... it's about small deposits of gold coins :)
19:11 < lovetruth> not about gold veins or nuggets... :)
19:11 < lovetruth> can it detect that?...
19:12 < revel> A regular metal detector and a free weekend, maybe?
19:12 < Pentode> all you need is a high end detector and a grid..
19:13 < Pentode> and determination, lol
19:13 < Sitri> I don't know if sub-soil GPR machines are significantly different, but concrete GPR machines can operate in a grid mode, where you make multiple passes and a computer stitches the data together.  The closer the gridlines, the smaller the item they can detect.
19:13  * Sitri operates a concrete GPR
19:14 < Sitri> With 4-inch spacing, I can see "pop-cans" (which are features that are the size of pop-cans that don't appear to connect to anything)
19:15 < QuarkMuncher> So, is vectorlinux worth using?
19:16 < [R]> QuarkMuncher: is it on the major dists list on distrowatch?
19:17 < dgurney> QuarkMuncher, if you like it, and it's reasonably up-to-date in all important aspects, why not
19:19 < QuarkMuncher> I am not sure, ran into it looking for a linux dist that seemed lightweight enough & not for some reason lacking a kernel after installation. I'm trying to build a machine meant to work as a dedicated VM client & Host.
19:19 < [R]> why not just use a normal dist?
19:20 < triceratux> QuarkMuncher: Porteus 4.0 is better & its based on the same framework as vector
19:21 < QuarkMuncher> I want the lowest possible memory usage, while still being able to run VM's use them. Also because it's alot easier to roll back a VM.
19:21 < [R]> yeah, sounds like you want a normal dist
19:21 < mawk> headless distro have low memory usage
19:21 < mawk> then you pick the lightest desktop environment you find
19:21 < djph> sounds like you're after debian headless
19:21 < mawk> the distro has little to do with this
19:21 < triceratux> you just want alpine or something
19:21 < djph> wait, a DE? bah
19:22 < mawk> DE, DM, WM
19:22 < mawk> I don't know the word
19:22 < [R]> or you just skip the idiocy
19:22 < [R]> and dont install X
19:22 < [R]> lol
19:22 < djph> mawk: oh, I'm just questioning the use of a DE on a purpoted "VM Host"
19:24 < QuarkMuncher> [R] Do you only run terminal machines?
19:24 < [R]> you said you want lowest usage...
19:24 < [R]> you're not gonna get "lowest usaage" with stupid guis
19:25 < [R]> you dont need X to run vms...
19:25 < QuarkMuncher> But how do I run a GUI VM without X?
19:26 < [R]> what do you mean a "gui vm"
19:26 < fofalee> ieoeoeoe
19:26 < gambl0re> how do i get my desktop to look like this? https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/8monwi/i3gapspolybar_my_first_attempt_at_ricing/
19:26 < fofalee> jfnvkkvkv
19:26 < fofalee> kfkeieifff
19:26 < fofalee> qolallala
19:26 < fofalee> zllfleppq
19:26 < Juesto> lol
19:26 < [R]> gambl0re: ask the person what themes and programs they are using
19:26 < fofalee> what is this gibberish
19:26 < fofalee> tell me.........................
19:26 < Juesto> wrong channel?
19:27 < Juesto> learn English or we don't know what are you talking about
19:27 < BenderRodriguez> what does the capital S stand for in the ls -la output: drwxrwSr--.
19:27 < BCMM> gambl0re: it's literally in the comments, complete with a github where you can download his config files
19:27 < BenderRodriguez> I'm trying to enable new files created to be owned by the group
19:27 < BenderRodriguez> err
19:27 < Juesto> BenderRodriguez: suid, i might be wrong check manpages
19:27 < fofalee> I am so angry how ayecee annoyed me, repeated telling me to read the manual for the difference between ;;& and ;& in bash case keyword usage
19:27 < Juesto> chmod one
19:27 < BenderRodriguez> shouldn't it be a small s though
19:27 < fofalee> ayecee: is notorious
19:27 < Juesto> oh right
19:28 < Dagmar> fofalee: Absolutely no one cares
19:28 < Juesto> fofalee: try somewhere else
19:28 < [R]> fofalee: notorious b i g?
19:28 < fofalee>  /msg nickserv info ayecee
19:28 < fofalee> why doesn't it work
19:28 < [R]> you'd have to ask freenode
19:28 < Juesto> fofalee: reading the manual is very useful, it's the documentation buddy
19:29 < Dagmar> Not a Linux problem
19:29 < Juesto> reading it saves a lot of time
19:29 < Juesto> you're wasting people time
19:29 < Juesto> kthx
19:29 < djph> ugh, he's probably whining in here because he whined and got himself banned in at least three other channels now
19:30 < Juesto> maybe
19:30 < Juesto> we don't know that
19:31 < djph> well, one of them was #bash, so ...
19:31 < fofalee> djph: huh??? how did you know that?
19:31 < Sitri> gambl0re: the comments have all the information you want
19:31 < fofalee> ok you saw me in #bash
19:31 < ananke> djph: you're a wizard
19:31 < djph> ananke: it's almost like I read a manual.
19:32 < gambl0re> Sitri, does it consume a lot of resources to have it look like that?
19:32 < Juesto> xd
19:32 < [R]> ananke: i think he called you the notorious b i g
19:32 < fofalee> I want to get banned in all the channels now after getting harassed by ayecee
19:32 < [R]> err,, he was talking about ayecee, ot you
19:32 < [R]> der
19:32 < [R]> stupid too many people with names that start with a
19:32 < [R]> fofalee: 0/10 on your trolling attempts
19:33 < ananke> fofalee: easier yet: /quit
19:33 < Sitri> gambl0re: shouldn't.  He's running mostly light-wieght stuff.  Do note that he's using a tiling WM so you might have some trouble with that if you've never used one before.
19:33 < fofalee> I no longer wish to meet ayecee like and other similar humans on irc, but since I don't have turing complete computers to engage in a meaningful conversation, hence I am here. but no it's not trolling, it's anger. and when in 2029 machines will be turing complete I will no longer talk to humans on irc
19:34 < fofalee> do you even know, machines of 2029 are better than humans, in conversations, according to AI experts by 2029 they WILL pass the turing test
19:34 < fofalee> do you believe in it?
19:34 < ayecee> it's okay, i don't want to meet you either.
19:35 < Pentode> lol
19:35 < djph> I believe you have 10 years to figure out how to pass said test.
19:35 < fofalee> Is there a general channel where I can talk about technological growth of computers....
19:35 < djph> good luck, the clock starts now.
19:35 < fofalee> which is exponential ##linux is not suitable
19:35 < [R]> ayecee: i think he called you the notorious b i g
19:35 < fofalee> djph: do you believe that by 2029 machines will pass the turing test?
19:35 < fofalee> [R]: what is b i g
19:36 < Dagmar> fofalee: Get over it and find somewhere else to annoy
19:37 < fofalee> which channel should I go-I will believe in singularity , by 2040
19:37 < ayecee> try ##chat
19:37 < fofalee> don't you djph ? do
19:37 < fofalee> ok
19:37 < lovetruth> fofalee: I'm sure that AI will never outsmart people
19:37 < djph> if you're a decent example of where they are today ... not a chance.
19:37 < triceratux> fofalee: i believe if computers arent smart enough by then to pass the turing test, theyll at least be smart enough to cheat on it so noone notices
19:38 < djph> triceratux: i see what you did there
19:39 < fofalee> what are your beliefs about future of technology
19:40 < fofalee> lovetruth: don't you know that fooling others into thinking it's humans *is* the turing test triceratux
19:40 < fofalee> cheating = passing the turing test triceratux
19:41 < ayecee> why are you still here
19:41 < fofalee> I am just don't know others in ##chat - they are strangers, and I feel weird
19:41 < fofalee> but I have been on ##linux long time
19:43 < fofalee> ayecee: Do you believe that AI will pass the turing test by 2029 ?
19:43 < fofalee> triceratux: you too.
19:43 < ayecee> it was actually a rhetorical question
19:43 < ayecee> the implied message was go away
19:51 < Frith> A while back, I worked on a project where it would have been convenient to "compile to OS".  WHere the system (effectively embedded) would only run one binary, and the OS wouldn't even be network connected.  Ideally, it would actually run it in lieu of init.  Never found anything for it, sadly.
19:52 < [R]> Frith: that's trivial
19:52 < [R]> but ridiculous
19:52 < ayecee> your mom is etc.etc.
19:53 < sauvin> It's CP/M.
19:53 < armin> hi
19:56 < styler2go> If dpkg got shut down incorrectly is there some global command to fix all the lock files?
19:57 < Ben64> whats the error
20:00 < Loshki> I have human friends who struggle to pass the Turing test...
20:00 < revel> I thought there was just one lock file that it also told you the path of if it was there.
20:01 < Ben64> revel: indeed
20:05 < styler2go> revel, it was some more.. but after a reboot everything works now
20:06 < notmike> Humans are not Turing complete
20:07 < fofalee> they are
20:07 < ayecee> dunno. i haven't tried running an infinite data tape through one.
20:08 < BenderRodriguez> ayecee: I'm about to take my RHCSA exam in an hour
20:08 < BenderRodriguez> I think I am ready
20:08 < ayecee> good luck!
20:08 < BenderRodriguez> any tips before the test?
20:08 < djph> woohoo
20:09 < djph> don't eat a data tape
20:09 < fofalee> you mean online exam?
20:09 < ayecee> don't panic, i guess
20:09 < BenderRodriguez> no, in-person
20:10 < fofalee> and an hour before the test how is he asking us, if it's not online? are you on a mobile phone?
20:10 < fofalee> You are scaring me
20:10 < fofalee> YOu scared the hell out of me
20:10 < BenderRodriguez> the test center is 20 minutes from me...
20:10 < BenderRodriguez> so I have 40 minutes to refresh on some labs
20:10 < djph> should probably get going, in case there's traffic
20:10 < BenderRodriguez> which I'm running through right now
20:10 < fofalee> run to the center now, and next tiem, don't ask us just an hour before the exam
20:11 < BenderRodriguez> lol
20:11 < fofalee> YOU ARE SCARING me
20:11 < BenderRodriguez> Don't worry I've prepped
20:11 < BenderRodriguez> I've been doing labs for 4 days or so now
20:11 < djph> I never liked doing the "refresher" stuff right before a test - it always made me less confident
20:11 < Frith> I am so glad I'm done with exams.
20:11 < Frith> Never. Again.
20:11 < fofalee> djph: you are who? programming how many do you know?
20:11 < djph> ^
20:12 < fofalee> YOU don't seem to believe that by 2029 computers will pass the turing test
20:12 < djph> Frith: well, I say that now ... but if work needs me to do something new ...
20:12 < fofalee> djph: ?
20:12 < fofalee> don't avoid me
20:12 < Frith> djph: Why would you need to take an exam to do something new?
20:12 < fofalee> I don't like when you snub me
20:12 < fofalee> stop snubbing me
20:13 < fofalee> djph: ?
20:13 < djph> Frith: "hey, go take this course" type "new things"
20:13 < fofalee> hey, \n what's tup \n djph
20:13 < dgurney> you seem to be very obnoxious
20:13 < Frith> djph: Ah.  I pretty much avoid those situations at this point.
20:13 < fofalee> dgurney: ? djph ? yes he is
20:14 < dgurney> no, you, from what I'm seeing
20:14 < djph> dgurney: huh, because of talking to Frith about tests?
20:14 < fofalee> ayecee: my friend enemy - frenemy do you believe that they will pass the turing test by 2029
20:14 < djph> er BenderRodriguez ... whichever
20:14 < fofalee> dgurney: do you?
20:14 < ayecee> !ops fofalee can't change his mind, won't change the topic
20:14 < dgurney> djph, not you
20:14 < djph> Frith: would if I could, but I'm not a greybeard yet :(
20:15 < fofalee> ayecee: I knew you are my enemy
20:15 < djph> dgurney: must be someone I ignored then.
20:15 < Frith> djph: I shave to avoid that. ;)
20:15 < fofalee> when I asked about ;;& in bash in case keyword , regarding linux
20:15 < fofalee> it didn't work out well for me , and now when I talk not about it , something light weight - I "changed" the topic
20:15 < fofalee> NO it is computer related ideas chat still
20:16 < djph> Frith: hahahaha, I'm still in FNG territory ... even after 10 years working here
20:16 < notmike> !ops ananke is dry snitching
20:16 < ayecee> heh
20:16 < djph> #!/bin/ops ?
20:16 < lnnb> !ops my coffee got too cold
20:16 < sauvin> An op is in fact present and getting a bit testy at all this childishness.
20:17 < Frith> djph: Yikes.
20:17 < ayecee> heh. heh. testes.
20:17 < djph> Frith: it's all good, the greybeards here are starting to accept me.
20:17 < Frith> djph: I've now been here longer than 99% of all employees, and I've been here for a little over 12 years.
20:18 < Frith> 99.12%, actually.
20:18 < ayecee> oddly specific
20:18 < djph> some of the greybeards are "I started when you were still in nappies" ... so ...
20:18 < notmike> An op has no name?
20:18 < sauvin> Just call him/her/it "nemo".
20:18 < ayecee> when an op dies, his name is robert paulson
20:18 < notmike> Oooh, nice
20:19 < sauvin> I was busy in another window trying to figure out how to turn a naked girl into a cloud so I could sneak her past the censors.
20:19 < Ben64> Frith: 113 employees?
20:20 < Frith> Ben64: a tad more. ;)
20:20 < ayecee> lasers?
20:21 < ayecee> 1130 employees?
20:21 < Frith> A couple of more zeros and you're there.
20:22 < revel> 1130.00?
20:22 < Ben64> 1250
20:22 < ayecee> damn, beat me to it
20:22 < Ben64> 1239/1250 = .9912
20:23 < Ben64> so theres 11 people there that have been there longer
20:23 < ayecee> /r/theydidthemath
20:23 < Frith> Except that the denominator is wrong.
20:23 < Ben64> 2478/2500
20:25 < ayecee> add a couple more zeros
20:26 < revel> 2478000000000/2500000000000
20:26 < ayecee> 2478/2500+00
20:26 < Ben64> 2.5 trillion employees?
20:26 < ayecee> give or take
20:27 < sauvin> That's... like... two and a half governments!
20:27 < DLange> he's among the oldest bacteria on the planet
20:28 < sauvin> Eh, could be a sponge or fungus or something.
20:28 < ayecee> the fungus among us
20:28 < manjaroDeepin> I was compiling linux kernel in dual booted archlinux. I was leaving a step when I thougt I finished the work and restarted. So, arch system is not working as of that mistake. Now I am on another dual booted manjaro linux so how to dual boot into archlinux partition so that I can fix the mistake?
20:28 < [R]> compiling a kernel isn't going to make your system unbootable...
20:29 < sauvin> Oh, [R], that statement is such a special little snowflake in OH so many uncountable ways...
20:29 < [R]> but isn't dual booting arch and majaro doubly idiotic and redundant?
20:30 < DLange> well, now one system still boots...
20:30 < [R]> lol
20:30 < Ben64> problem solved
20:30 < DLange> manjaroDeepin: you need to chroot onto where your arch is
20:30 < DLange> and then do whatever you need to fix in that chroot
20:31 < bls> and is this the person that was trying to set up dual booting with syslinux without any documentation?
20:32 < [R]> EXTREME syslinux
20:32 < manjaroDeepin> DLange, Yes, That is what I am asking. How to chroot in the root partition of archlinux. Like it is '/dev/sda1'
20:32 < manjaroDeepin> [R], I have compiled before and I messed something up and deleted something. But I know how to fix it if I can chroot
20:32 < lnnb> mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/somewhere && chroot /mnt/somewhere
20:33 < [R]> manjaroDeepin: i can say it again if you like?
20:33 < [R]> [11:28:58] <[R]> compiling a kernel isn't going to make your system unbootable...
20:33 < DLange> usually bind mount a few dirs into the chroot first
20:34 < manjaroDeepin> [R], Oh yes, you are right
20:34 < mawk> you mean /proc etc DLange ?
20:34 < mawk> you can mount them normally after the chroot
20:34 < lnnb> mount -t proc proc /proc && mount -t devtmpfs devtmpfs /dev
20:35 < mawk> yeah
20:35 < mawk> devpts is important too
20:35 < mawk> and you can add /dev/shm, /run and /sys
20:35 < DLange> manjaroDeepin: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/change_root
20:42 < annihilator> question which distro would be best for running windows games?  i play FF games on steam i am looking at linux because i rather do coding on linux and dont want to dual boot as i play while running other software
20:42 < annihilator> i am looking at ubuntu/lubuntu and arch
20:42 < djph> none.
20:42 < djph> it's all dependent on how well they're supported in WINE
20:43 < sammyg> how can i do a whois for a domain beginning at N of length 8 chars and with .net extension?
20:43 < [R]> annihilator: if you want to play steam... a dist steam supports is probably a good idea...
20:43 < aBound> If you're playing games through Steam they should be supported natively.
20:43 < aBound> From Linux ports.
20:43 < annihilator> yea from linux ports
20:43 < annihilator> not all games are linux ports
20:43 < annihilator> such as FFXIV
20:43 < djph> sammyg: what?
20:43 < aBound> If you're trying to play games not supported natively you'd end up using WINE and seeing if it's supported.
20:44 < annihilator> well FFXIV i know is supported but not sure ubuntu or arch as both are good
20:44 < sammyg> djph, n???????.net
20:44 < revel> sammyg: Like, return *all* domains which are all 8 arbitrary characters and then .net?
20:44 < revel> I don't think the DNS protocol itself supports that.
20:44 < djph> ^
20:44 < djph> DNS is specific
20:45 < revel> And not every registered address is cached somewhere, I don't think.
20:45 < sammyg> so no way to do it?
20:45 < [R]> you just need to download the root zone
20:45 < [R]> for .net
20:46 < djph> ^ and then walk through it printing out all domains of length 8
20:47 < aBound> If FFXIV is supported natively through Steam it should play without any additional configuration.
20:47 < annihilator> it wont
20:47 < annihilator> but its wine accepted
20:47 < annihilator> ffxiv is the mmo game
20:47 < [R]> then look at the wine db and find a report of the game working
20:47 < [R]> and copy the config they said they were using
20:47 < aBound> That would more than likely means it's not supported or it wasn't ported as a Linux port.
20:47 < annihilator> lutris is how ffxiv plays best with dx11 lol
20:47 < funksh0n> Hello all!
20:47 < aBound> So it isn't a native game.
20:48 < aBound> I played: Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel. On Linux natively without WINE as there was a Linux port available that was in the past of course on Ubuntu.
20:49 < aBound> Using the Playstation 3 controller.
20:49 < aBound> Seeing as the Linux kernel contains a PS3 driver.
20:49 < sauvin> Finally figured it out. Gimp can hide naked girls in the clouds. Eat dirt, you dirty crosseyed pinheaded airheaded mouthpiece puppet censors!
20:50 < lnnb> tellem!
20:50 < aBound> As long as there's an official Linux port of a game you won't have much problems. If there isn't, configuring WINE while checking on it's support is a necessary.
20:52 < rascul> check wine's appdb before purchasing the game if playing it on linux is a major concern
20:52 < annihilator> i will see but i know there are steam games that run well that i play.  otherwise im stuck with windoze......and either ubuntu on linux to program or trying to compile with windows....
20:52 < aBound> What rascul said. :P
20:53 < sauvin> That would be "windows".
20:54 < annihilator> LOL
20:54 < annihilator> i like linux for programing but i like gaming too lol
20:54 < aBound> Heck, when the time comes for Linux gaming there is going to be huge gains for the Linux platform.
20:54 < lnnb> whats your favorite game annihilator
20:55 < annihilator> steam is already making that happen
20:55 < annihilator> my favorite is FFXIV
20:55 < annihilator> its a good mmo
20:56 < rascul> the last worthwhile final fantasy game was final fantasy 3
20:56 < lnnb> so your favorite game is just a "good" mmo,  mehhh
20:56 < annihilator> i played that
20:56 < annihilator> lol
20:56 < annihilator> it good cause i hate the boring tasks of grinding
20:56 < annihilator> like in any RPG
20:57 < aBound> animtakhnet, Might as well get Spotify too if you don't have it on Linux. :P
20:57 < annihilator> but i am also playing FFIVAF
20:57 < annihilator> i am a Final Fantasy Fan
20:58 < funksh0n> I'm trying to print a PDF (cups, arch linux, epdfview) but it seems to get stuck on "Sending data to printer." unless I set the range to 1 so it only prints page 1.
20:58 < funksh0n> Even if I set teh range to just 2, it gets stuck.
20:58 < aBound> Be right back.
21:02 < ||JD||> funksh0n: random malfunctioning in cups? never heard it before
21:02 < ||JD||>  /sarcastic mode off
21:02 < barometz> 's very deterministic
21:04 < funksh0n> Very helpful :P
21:04 < funksh0n> I'm not sure if it's an issue with epdfview or cups though... Everything else has printed fine but I've never tried to print something of this size before.
21:05 < funksh0n> I've got plenty of free memory and nothing is pushing any cores, so I don't think it's a hardware limitation.
21:05 < rockdarko> I have a Microsoft Surface, with no legacy BIOS option and the most basic EFI in the universe. Although dual booting Linux with Windows works without a hitch, installing 2 Linux distros doesn't work. I install Manjaro first, then Kali, also tried vice versa, they always render the previously installed distro unbootable although grub finds it and lists an entry for it. Anything I should ready about here?
21:05 < rockdarko> read*
21:06 < TheWild> hello
21:06 < jim> funksh0n, can you print other pdfs? (or rather the first two pages as a test)
21:07 < funksh0n> I'll give it a go jim.
21:07 < [R]> rockdarko: what if you use a major dist?
21:07 < bls> or use kali as a live distro as intended
21:07 < jim> let's see whether it's the data in the pdf you're printing that's making it freeze
21:08 < mattfly> hi
21:09 < jim> also, can you print just page 3 of the original pdf?
21:09 < jim> hi
21:09 < mattfly> im trying to use vnc server on my other notebook to klnda have a secondary monitor but since it has a pentium cpu even with low quality images it still lags so badly and like when watching a video i miss all details
21:10 < mattfly> is there any faster/better option to do this than vnc? or maybe some special config about vnc that im missing
21:10 < TheWild> how to track down a bastard program that won't run, and the only trail it leaves is an exit code of 127... wait a moment, was strace the hero?
21:10 < TheWild> open("/lib/ld-linux.so.2", O_RDONLY)    = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
21:10 < [R]> mattfly: you coudl try nx... but watching video over any kind of remote graphical is never going to be good
21:10 < funksh0n> jim yes, a ~400kb PDF printed fine, including whole document and range of pages 2-3.  The failing PDF is ~60mb and 137 pages.
21:10 < mattfly> is nx faster?
21:10 < [R]> it's different...
21:11 < funksh0n> Printing page 1 alone works, but printing page 2 alone does not :/
21:11 < funksh0n> Ideally I want to print all odd pages so I can double-side.
21:11 < jim> funksh0n, so it's the data on page 2 maybe?
21:11 < rascul> mattfly the screens are right next to each other? have you considered synergy? it's not a remote desktop kinda thing but it might suit your purposes
21:12 < funksh0n> jim I've tried page 3 alone too, and some other ranges
21:12 < mattfly> i use synergy
21:12 < funksh0n> I'll try another large pdf
21:12 < jim> funksh0n, and the only range that works is page 1 only?
21:12 < mattfly> but the other laptop is so shitty that i cant run browsers on it at all
21:12 < funksh0n> jim correct
21:13 < mattfly> thats why i vnc to to my own laptop
21:13 < funksh0n> the small PDF was successful with other ranges
21:13 < jim> so it can't even skip past whatever the problem is
21:13 < ct_jack> Can someone tell me if my lecturer is wrong with this question? link is https://imgur.com/a/dPJQGAj
21:13 < ct_jack> not homework help btw, exam revision
21:14 < ct_jack> he says a,c,d don't work. I tried C on my laptop (OSX) and it worked fine
21:14 < TheWild> what the hell is /lib/ld-linux.so.* and where I'm supposed to get it from?
21:14 < TheWild> not even "dpkg -S /lib/ld-linux.so.2" is of use
21:15 < funksh0n> Aha jim I think you might be onto something, a much larger PDF is printing fine.  So maybe corruption in the PDF file?
21:16 < [R]> TheWild: that will only tell you who owns an installed file, if its not installed... obviously dpkg -S won't give you antyhing
21:16 < [R]> TheWild: apt-file
21:16 < jim> funksh0n, or some type of data that pdf readers are supposed to be able to handle, they can't?
21:16 < xormor> how do I make the folders on my desktop open with a double-click?
21:16 < rascul> TheWild it's from glibc, and it's the dynamic loader, it's quite necessary in most use cases
21:16 < jim> funksh0n, how are you printing it exactly? (and, brb)
21:16 < [R]> rascul: you're from glibc
21:17 < funksh0n> jim what do you mean by exactly?  The only thing I've tried to change is the range and odd/even.
21:17 < mgolisch> is it a 32bit app?
21:17 < mgolisch> you might be missing the 32bit libc
21:17 < rascul> [R] there's a party in glibc, i'm not leaving
21:18 < funksh0n> It does even seem to load a lot slower than the larger PDF, slower to change pages.
21:18 < funksh0n> Might just try a batch PDF to JPG
21:18 < TheWild> okay, screw the Y problem. The X is how to write Windows 7 installation ISO to the USB stick in a way that it actually boots. I wanted to run unetbootin-linux-494, but - well - it doesn't run because of missing ld-linux.so.2.
21:19 < TheWild> do you have a well tested method?
21:19 < mawk> if on a serial port I set a baud rate higher than the other party's baud rate will it cause problems with the reception ?
21:19 < [R]> mawk: well yeah... they'll receive garbage, you'll receive garbae
21:20 < rascul> TheWild in the past i could just use dd to write the iso to usb and boot it
21:20 < mawk> the full picture is that I want to build a serial port USB adapter, computer sets the baud rate it wants, the adapter runs at the maximum baud rate, what's on the other end of the adapter runs at the same baud rate the computer is running
21:20 < mawk> would that cause problems ?
21:20 < rascul> TheWild though some googling leads me to believe that won't work on every computer
21:20 < [R]> mawk: or you could spend $1 and buy one of the billions that already exist
21:20 < [R]> lol
21:21 < mawk> I already have one
21:21 < mawk> it's just for fun
21:21 < [R]> the baud rate has to match
21:21 < [R]> plain and simple
21:21 < TheWild> rascul, tried it and it didn't work :(. I tried to even hack it, taking the first 32K from Ubuntu ISO
21:21 < mawk> a too low baudrate is harmful yeah
21:21 < mawk> but it's not obvious for a too high rate
21:21 < [R]> mawk: so try it and see
21:22 < mgolisch> tried following their instructions?
21:22 < TheWild> the ISOs generally have the first 32K empty. It was reserved for something IIRC, but hybrid Linux ISOs leave a bootloader there, so it works either it is DVD or USB stick.
21:22 < storge> instructions? no success can come from that
21:22 < rockdarko> [R]: Well I thought Manjaro nad Kali as they were based off Arch/Debian would be considered major distros. Are you saying you want me to dual boot Ubuntu and Fedora?
21:22 < mgolisch> if iam not totaly wrong its just creating the partition and extracting stuff to it
21:22 < [R]> rockdarko: i'm saying you should be using major dists if youd ont know what yo uare doing
21:23 < nostrora> Hi! i'm on Linux 4.16 and i want to know if i change the amper of a usb device ? (a usb fan) to slow down the fan
21:23 < nostrora> if i can*
21:23 < syb0rg> rockdarko, you know Kali isn't a normal, general purpose desktop distro right?
21:23 < [R]> nostrora: no
21:23 < bls> rockdarko: being based off a major distro doesn't make them a major distro, they're fringe enough that we see lots of people running into problems with them
21:23 < TheWild> that's dumb the "normal" storage devices and CD/DVDs are booted different ways.
21:23 < [R]> bls: fringe... like tassels?
21:23 < storge> rockdarko: to [R] point, you can make debian do what kali does, without the instabilities
21:23 < rockdarko> [R]: I understand what you are saying, but I like to think that fixing a problem rather than taking the easy way out will potentially make me know what Im doing.
21:24 < nostrora> i think usb is 500mA max. i want to set it to 250mA
21:24 < [R]> rockdarko: ok, well have fun with your broken garbage then
21:24 < storge> rockdarko: that's a good point too. fix away! you'll learn from it
21:24 < bls> if you were doing this to learn, you wouldn't be asking us for solutions
21:24 < storge> rockdarko: but yeah, at a certain point you might get tired of repairs
21:25 < rockdarko> storge: Yeah but Ive been using both these OS seperatly for a while without a problem, this is just a hicup to me, not to sound like Im trying to be the smartest man in the room here, [R] obviously is.
21:25 < [R]> lol
21:25 < sauvin> Making Kali into something actually useful for general purposes is a bit like salvaging a car that'd been totalled and restoring it to showroom condition.
21:25 < [R]> sauvin: and putting a spoiler on it...
21:25 < syb0rg> rockdarko, the one and only thing Kali is meant to be good at is penetration testing/hacking. If you want a normal desktop that is designed around being stable and useful for doing normal stuff, Ubuntu or Debaian is better
21:25 < syb0rg> *Debian
21:26 < rockdarko> Im taking a Cyber Security course and Id like to be able to have a Kali install ratheer than live boot it all the time, thats all.
21:26 < storge> rockdarko: as with many peeps in this channel, [R] has a lot of knowledge you just have to accept some humiliation cruft that comes preinstalled with their personalities
21:26 < sauvin> I mean... check this out... Kali makes Mint look rock-solid!
21:26 < rockdarko> syb0rg: hence why the dual boot, I want Manjaro as my daily driver.
21:26 < syb0rg> ok, as long as you are aware of that
21:26 < [R]> lol
21:26 < sauvin> rockdarko, so, shove Kali into a VM.
21:26 < storge> rockdarko: or an alternative to dual boot is virtualbox, run one in the other
21:26 < funksh0n> jim seems it didn't like the contents pages that had links (page 2 and 3).  Ranges outside of that are printing fine!
21:26 < [R]> so you offset a garbage broken dist with another one
21:26 < syb0rg> or just live boot Kali like a normal person
21:26 < [R]> excellent solution!
21:26 < jim> maybe kali has the source packages for the pentesting stuff... if that's the case, maybe they'll build on a debian
21:27 < storge> [R]: :D
21:27 < bls> if you're doing this to learn pentesting, you need to be following the normal way it's done. carrying your live USB/CD/DVD into a secure location, booting it on a random system, then figuring out how to work from that
21:27 < jim> or ubuntu, or (etc)
21:27 < storge> bls: +1
21:27 < rockdarko> sauvin: I thought of that, but I have only 4gb of RAM on that Surface. It will technically be enough and ultimately be what I will resort to, but in a perfect world I was dual booting this. In an even more perfect world I was understanding and figuring out that technical problem as well.
21:27 < storge> jim: they do, for the most part
21:27 < rockdarko> (learning)
21:27 < [R]> bls: where do you keep your live usb? i like to keep mine in my pocket...
21:27 < syb0rg> true enough, but you would be well advised to familiarize yourself with the tools before actually attempting to use them
21:27 < bls> if you need your fully customized install to get things done, you're going to have a difficult time when you're not allowed to carry your system into a DC/lab/office/etc
21:28 < storge> [R]: i keep mine safely locked in an FBI evidence drawer
21:28 < jim> storge, do you know which ones don't?
21:28 < [R]> bls: then when i'm with a girl and she asks "is that a usb in your pocket, or are you happy to see me?" i can of course say "dont flatter yourself, it's just a usb"
21:28 < syb0rg> well bls, you can do a portable install on a thumbdrive
21:28 < storge> jim: no it's been years, it's probably much different anyway by now
21:28 < syb0rg> and customize to your hearts content
21:28 < bls> [R]: then tell her it's got kali on it...she's yours
21:28 < DLange> [R]: you know she says that because USB bars are tiny, don't you?
21:28 < storge> gmrl rescue usb with hack tools aboard, is probly what i'd try when i do it again
21:29 < [R]> bls: they used to say 'the vet gets em wet'... but man, with kali now...
21:29 < syb0rg> [R], but what if you were happy to see here then she sees the USB stick and gets disappointed? You could be losing out
21:29 < [R]> DLange: mines really old, so it's rather large
21:29 < jim> so for the most part, you can have the best of both worlds, by installing debian, and building the pentesting tools
21:29 < storge> jim: yes
21:30  * DLange notes [R] has syphilis on his USB bar
21:30 < storge> you can make a stable distro run bleeding edge stuff if you need it, at the cost of stability perhaps, but you're whittling away at stable instead of trying to build on a wobbly foundation
21:30 < [R]> DLange: lol
21:31  * sauvin renames [R] "krankenschwanz"
21:31 < bls> storge: yeah, just because some distros mandate constant manual tweaking doesn't mean the stable "old" ones prevent it
21:31 < [R]> sauvin: ENGLISH... do you speak it!?
21:31 < storge> bls: i run debian testing, which is edgy enough for me nowadays :)
21:31 < sauvin> [R], yes. Do you?
21:31 < storge> bls: --which is pretty darn stable as it is
21:32 < [R]> sauvin: you're the one speaking in not english
21:32 < jim> well they work to make it that way
21:32 < storge> krankenshwanz, perfect
21:32 < sauvin> [R], and you're the one who needs still to install the 'dict' command.
21:32 < ct_jack> Anyone able to help me understand the answer to this permissions question? https://imgur.com/a/dPJQGAj
21:32 < storge> behold the krankenschwanz!
21:32 < [R]> sauvin: hey! littler children are watching this chat...
21:32 < [R]> little*
21:33 < DLange> you started the USB bar dirty talk!
21:33 < [R]> lol
21:33 < [R]> i was talking in innuendos... sauvin said 'dict'
21:33 < sauvin> Funny story, happens to be true: I told somebody at work once I moderate a channel with over 2000 people in it, and one of the things I have to do is tell people to mind their language. She almost fell on the ground laughing her guts out.
21:34 < dimm> hello, All! How i can compare checksum of files in two dirs? directory structure and files are the same (/u02 and /mnt/u02). It is a original and backup after "cp -av".
21:34 < [R]> sauvin: because you swear like a sailor?
21:34 < DLange> I can imagine, sauvin. She'll be hearing you swearing most of the day :)
21:34 < storge> sauvin: well it is pathetic in a way, sensible in another. it's all perspective.
21:34 < bls> dimm: diff, mtree
21:34 < sauvin> [R], you have no idea.
21:34 < DLange> krankenschwanz: yes, he does
21:34 < [R]> dimm: find, md5sum, and diff
21:35 < sauvin> It's... inventive.
21:35 < funksh0n> Gah jim just ran out of ink about 2 dozen pages short of the doc, about the same number of test pages I've had to print -.-
21:35 < bls> dimm: tripwire, aide
21:35 < storge> funksh0n: ouch
21:35 < dimm> i trying "for i in `find /u02 -type f` ;  do for j in `find /mnt/u02 -type f` ; do echo $i $j ; done; done"     but this will do for each of $i echo $j
21:35 < dimm> how do it one to one?
21:36 < storge> krankenschwanz will help
21:36 < bls> you can roll your own, but why? there are already tools to compare the checksums of two dirs
21:36 < storge> bls: we encourage duplication and experimentation here.
21:36  * storge keeps a straight face
21:36 < dimm> good?
21:36 < dimm> for i in `find /u02 -type f` ; do cmp $i /mnt/$i ; done
21:36 < jim> funksh0n, and you needed those pages?
21:36 < storge> funksh0n: print on the back
21:37 < bls> storge: completely on board when they're close to a working solution...this far though...
21:37 < storge> yep
21:37 < sauvin> Man, you should have heard that girl laughing. It was priceless. Such sweet music they make...
21:38 < jim> storge, I think he ran out of ink, not paper :)
21:39 < nekoseam> Are there any distros that uses makefiles Like *BSD package management?
21:39 < [R]> nekoseam: what do you mean "use"
21:39 < bls> nekoseam: all of them?
21:40 < jim> nekoseam, I think there are some that use the bsd ports system
21:40 < nekoseam> Trying to put it into words
21:40 < candidat> release the kraken
21:40 < rascul> nekoseam gentoo's portage is based on the idea of a ports collection, and pkg-src is ported to linux
21:40 < nekoseam> Makefiles to compile packages from source
21:40 < bls> nekoseam: then all of them
21:40 < mattfly> thanks  for the advice but nx doesnt create a new session like vnc does :/
21:41 < nekoseam> hmm
21:41 < jim> nekoseam, the system you describe is called the bsd ports system
21:41 < mattfly> i dont want something to control my running desktop, i want something that im able to watch videos on that creates a new x sessions but is faster than vnc so i can have sorta secondary monitor
21:41 < bls> nekoseam: if a package has a Makefile or uses autotools, the distro packaging system is going to use make to build it
21:42 < bls> nekoseam: pieces of that packaging system are going to be in shell script, make, perl, python, lisp, ruby, etc, etc
21:42 < [R]> mattfly: i already told youtahts not going to happen
21:42 < toothe> i have a directory whose name is ???m
21:42 < toothe> but ??? are weirdo cahracters.
21:42 < toothe> hm...how do I get rid of it...
21:42 < bls> toothe: rm -i *m
21:43 < mattfly> okay but i missed and and went testing
21:43 < rascul> mattfly why not stream the video to whatever is already available? why do you need a new x session or vnc?
21:43 < nekoseam> jim: Thanks. I was wondering if makefiles could be used in a non-ports way
21:43 < phogg> toothe: your terminal just can't display the real characters. Is it xterm?
21:43 < sauvin> I can't be sure, but I think arch uses source packages, too.
21:43 < toothe> bls: I have a few files with that name...but that's a good start.
21:43 < toothe> phogg: guess not..and this is UTF-7
21:43 < jim> nekoseam, if you're speaking more generally, it's a good chance most dists use make to build stuff
21:43 < toothe> err, UTF8
21:43 < mattfly> is ultravnc any better?
21:43 < phogg> toothe: rm -i ./*m # it will prompt for each one
21:43 < ayecee> heh, utf7
21:43 < rascul> sauvin aur does, but i don't recall enough about it to know how well it fits
21:43 < toothe> wait no...this is xterm-256-color.
21:43 < [R]> rascul: if i fits i sits
21:43 < bls> nekoseam: if you're asking about a purely make based system, there isn't one
21:43 < rascul> [R] you don't fit here
21:44 < [R]> rascul: lol
21:44 < rascul> [R] over there, maybe
21:44 < phogg> toothe: xterm is bad at certain kinds of unicode. That and files are allowed to have almost *any* bytes in them, even non-printable. Another workaround is to use a GUI file manager.
21:44 < nekoseam> I thought Void did something similiar to pkgsrc
21:44 < bls> with the 500lb gorrila and the elephant in the room?
21:44  * [R] throws some non printable bytes at phogg 
21:44 < toothe> i think its gone...
21:44 < rockdarko> storge: I know I'm about 15 minutes late to respond to that, but I'm familiar with [R]. I was told not to feed him the first time I came in here but he did help me in the past and shames me everytime I mention I use Manjaro. Thanks for the heads up though!
21:45 < cmj> urxvt
21:45 < mattfly> what about xmdx?
21:45  * rockdarko is installing Kali in a VM in his glorious Manjaro install... with KDE.
21:45 < rascul> nekoseam if you want a source based distro, there's several of those, but if you want something close to bsd ports, then the best you're going to get on linux is netbsd's pkgsrc
21:45 < phogg> gentoo isn't close enough?
21:45 < [R]> rockdarko: it has nothing to do with shaming, it has to do with having stupid problems that don't exist on sane dists
21:45 < rascul> i dunno
21:46 < storge> rockdarko: TANSTAAFL
21:46 < rockdarko> [R]: shaming is just your way of communicating. It's not the actual pay load.
21:46 < nekoseam> rascul: I dislike compiling everything from source :/. I've tried Void but I really dislike their package manager
21:46 < phogg> rockdarko: whoever told you not to listen to [R] is the real troll.
21:46 < nekoseam> Thanks though
21:46 < storge> lol you said load
21:46 < storge> phogg: +1
21:46 < rascul> nekoseam i guess it's not clear to me what you're inquiring about
21:47 < nekoseam> I'm new to the subject so that's probably the reason
21:47 < phogg> nekoseam: can you explain what you're after? Sorry if you already did, I came in to the middle of this conversation.
21:47 < storge> there are some wicked good brains here and i just keep my little towelette to occasionally wipe my face of the piss. it's just the fee you pay sometimes. TANSTAAFL
21:48 < [R]> phogg: no, its just been mostly rambling
21:48 < nekoseam> phogg: basically if any distros use bsd-like package management
21:48 < bls> nekoseam: then read up on pkgsrc, portage, the AUR, NIX/GUIX, homebrew, etc. they're all doing the compile from source first thing
21:48 < nekoseam> I love pkgsrc
21:48 < phogg> nekoseam: in short "not really" but you need to be more specific when you say "BSD-like"
21:49 < rascul> sometimes it helps to specify which bsd ;)
21:49 < rockdarko> [R]: Linus Torvald would like you that's for sure.
21:49 < nekoseam> phogg: That's the problem, I'm not able to do that as I'm new-ish to the subject
21:49 < bls> they all keep a source tree with their packaging directive and have tools to interact with that source tree to build things
21:49 < rockdarko> But anyways, thanks for the help everyone. VM it is. Manjaro for president.
21:50 < phogg> nekoseam: various distributions are "like" different bits of BSD when package management is concerned. Depending on what about pkgsrc you find appealing a Linux distro to match might be very different.
21:50 < nekoseam> tl;dr dumb angry debian user tried *bsd's and liked them, wondering if distros do anything like them
21:50 < bls> most linux distros have polished things to the point where you don't need to interact with that system (and the ones that force you to are the source of endless hype)
21:50 < nekoseam> the ports system is really nice
21:51 < phogg> nekoseam: Like in what sense? Ports is just a rudimentary source package system that applies only to part of the OS. If you use gentoo you get a better one that applies to all of it. Is that alike enough?
21:51 < DLange> nekoseam: why don't you just use your favorite BSD for a while? May be that's what you'll like.
21:51 < nekoseam> CRUX apparently uses a ports system
21:51 < bls> is `cd /some/dir; package_command/make; watch blinkenlights` really that much better than just `package_command`
21:52 < rascul> nekoseam you could try debian bsd, but that's more like doing bsd the linux way instead of linux the bsd way ;)
21:52 < phogg> nekoseam: If what you like is simplicity beware that simple things only work in simple cases. Solving general purpose problems usually gets messy.
21:52 < phogg> Debian GNU/kFreebsd is cool, but not much like FreeBSD from a *BSD user point of view.
21:52 < bls> I use BSDs for a lot of stuff, and the amount of time I spend in the ports tree is about the same as I spend creating rpms/debs on other distros.
21:53 < phogg> it is, however, a lot like Debian GNU/Linux.
21:53 < rascul> just replace the berkeley bits with linux
21:53 < phogg> bls: Would you say that making a ports package is generally simpler than making a .deb? I understand that's the appeal.
21:54 < noodlepie> Someone way right, the other day, though - Linux Make MenuConfig needs a "Enable configs for loaded kernel modules"... to set them from boot image kernel running when you compile your first kernel
21:54 < phogg> I believe that arch packages benefit and suffer from a similar level of simplicity.
21:54 < bls> the thing I find is that making a port means you're surrounded by examples and similar packages, whereas the trend with making a deb is to start from scratch or grab a single source package
21:55 < phogg> noodlepie: I could not understand you. Can you say that again in a simpler way?
21:55 < noodlepie> A simple script should do it, maybe will make one and send it to Linus to distribute with the Kernel Source itself - a "make grab_modules" I think @:P-~
21:55 < phogg> bls: Indeed. It could benefit from a lot more newbie-friendly documentation
21:55 < phogg> noodlepie: and what would that do?
21:55 < artyx> Wasn't lfsbook newbie friendly?
21:56 < bls> also, ports are generally going to be restricted /usr/local or /usr/pkg or /opt or wherever, so you care a lot less about what it's going to do to the rest of the system
21:56 < surial> df -h says 896MB free. apt-get upgrade says: no space left on device. ????
21:56 < phogg> artyx: that does not teach you how to make .deb packages
21:56 < noodlepie> Well, when you boot a working kernel will all the modules built for it, you load a subset of these and should be able to match these kernel module drivers to the list Linux supports, so your first built kernel supports your drivers
21:56 < surial> this was during a kernel update so I'm kinda fearful of rebooting this thing.
21:56 < surial> making files works fine.
21:57 < phogg> noodlepie: you want a Linux kernel make command to build all modules needed by your current, working kernel?
21:57 < rcf> noodlepie: this sounds like make localmodconfig
21:58 < surial> oh wait nvm i see something: /tmp is mounted on a drive that's 1MB large. That's one heck of a weird config. Um.. can I just unmount it and let it use the 'main' disk?
21:58 < sadme> hi, whenever i try to use a second monitor on my laptop running xorg, if i set a --scale option to anything other than 1x1 my cpu usage spikes dramatically and the device becomes unusable. does anyone know anything I can do to debug this, or is this just xserver working as intended?
21:58 < phogg> noodlepie: have you tried 'make localmodconfig'?
21:59 < DLange> surial: sure, if nothing has a file open there (mount point busy)
21:59 < phogg> surial: probably, but running programs with things in /tmp would be a problem
21:59 < surial> Well, my, uh, shell is holding /tmp hostage right now.
21:59 < surial> Heh. Can I force-unmount, and then ssh back in?
21:59 < phogg> surial: if you change to runlevel 1 you should be able to do it.
21:59 < surial> right at which point I assume I kill my own shell and get booted out, yeah?
21:59 < rascul> surial you only have ssh access?
21:59 < gambl0re> how long does it take for a brand new laptop battery to start losing its charge?
21:59 < surial> I'm sshing in and have no direct access to the box.
21:59 < phogg> surial: from runlevel 1 maybe, but even then probably no. Do this: Mount --bind some other dir over top of it. Over time things will move.
22:00 < [R]> gambl0re: 1 secon
22:00 < surial> phogg: right and then I can just apt-get again. D'oh, of course! Thanks.
22:00 < phogg> surial: meanwhile existing open fds will keep working
22:00 < rascul> surial what is the current fstab line for /tmp ?
22:00 < phogg> surial: don't forget to make the new tmp dir's permissions match /tmp first
22:00 < gambl0re> i mean until the battery can no longer hold a charge. dead battery basically
22:00 < [R]> gambl0re: and this has what to do with linux?
22:00 < phogg> gambl0re: depends on a LOT of things, some to do with manufacturing and a lot to do with usage
22:01 < phogg> gambl0re: you can maybe ask ##hardware, or better yet ##psychics
22:02 < artyx> gambl0re: You will get like 50 charges at peak
22:02 < gambl0re> phogg, thanks. is it best to disconnect the charger once it's fully charged?
22:02 < surial> phogg: yay, succes. lifesaver!
22:02 < artyx> after that it starts to go crappy
22:03 < phogg> gambl0re: it depends on the battery type and the sophistication of the connection. Some will stop charging when it's not needed. As a general rule for L/Ion you want no more than 80% charge and to not be charging all the time.
22:03 < artyx> He bailed
22:04 < phogg> gambl0re: a good battery interface will control some of this for you, either on the battery side or the device side.
22:04 < gambl0re> the laptop i got is a lower end model. im pretty sure it doesnt have all these battery saving features
22:05 < artyx> good thing for you its built into windows =)
22:05 < phogg> e.g. fancy electric cars lie about actual capacity and so "100%" charge is really less, allowing the control software to extend battery life.
22:05 < gambl0re> and my previous laptop battery was good for less than a year
22:05 < phogg> I don't know how common this gets in low end consumer electronics
22:05 < rascul> gambl0re the powertop and upower tools might interest you
22:05 < gambl0re> rascul, whats it?
22:06 < phogg> tools to help you track power consumption and know what's eating power
22:06 < artyx> gambl0re: On your laptop, do you use your external ports much?
22:06 < dStromboli_> howdy y'all, I'm trying to remove some numbering on a few thousand files using the rename command and I'm having some difficulty
22:06 < gambl0re> i just want my battery to turn to complete shit after like a year
22:06 < dStromboli_> Files are named "something.~3~"
22:06 < gambl0re> artyx, usb hdd
22:07 < artyx> gambl0re: Any serial parrallel or video?
22:07 < gambl0re> no
22:07 < phogg> dStromboli_: which rename command do you have? util-linux's or the perl one?
22:07 < artyx> does it HAVE those ports?
22:07 < gambl0re> ya
22:07 < gambl0re> no serial but hdmi
22:07 < dStromboli_> util-linux
22:08 < rascul> dStromboli_ what difficulty are you having?
22:09 < dStromboli_> well the first parameter is the substring to change, which needs to be .~anythinghere~ and I'm not getting that right
22:10 < dStromboli_> .~*~, .~?~, .~/d~ don't work
22:10 < phogg> dStromboli_: you just want to remove the numeric part? Can you provide an example of an input file name and an expected output file name? How about 3 examples?
22:10 < dStromboli_> give me a second
22:11 < phogg> dStromboli_: I wouldn't use util-linux rename for this (or for much of anything).
22:11 < mattfly> the truth is i wanted something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOzRCBGDVaE
22:11 < mattfly> which was buggy on 2010 but worked and now theres no way to do this it seems
22:11 < [R]> mattfly: oh well...
22:12 < dStromboli_> image.jpg.~2~
22:12 < phogg> mattfly: sounds like you have yourself a project
22:12 < dStromboli_> image.jpg
22:12 < phogg> dStromboli_: not on separate lines, please
22:12 < dStromboli_> I understand, my apologies
22:13 < dStromboli_> thumb.jpg.~3~ -> thumb.jpg
22:14 < timmyrick> whats the best way to go about buying the cheapest server possible to run a simple website?
22:14 < phogg> dStromboli_: what happens if you strip the number and the end result is two files with the same name?
22:14 < [R]> timmyrick: with money
22:14 < timmyrick> i got that
22:14 < timmyrick> whats the cheapest server website youd recommend? is there a better channel to ask this?
22:15 < [R]> of course
22:15 < [R]> your question has nothing to do with linux
22:15 < timmyrick> whats the better channel?
22:15 < phogg> dStromboli_: I generally prefer the mmv command for things like this. It would do what you want with this command: mmv "*.~*~" "#1"
22:15 < [R]> timmyrick: this isn't the yellow pages of irc...
22:15 < phogg> dStromboli_: it would also halt without doing harm if two files would collide and overwrite each other
22:15 < dStromboli_> phogg: that shouldn't happen, but if it does then I'll adjust it accordingly, add the no overwrite option
22:15 < storge> timmyrick: /msg alis list *yourdesire*
22:16 < ayecee> /msg alis list *pony*
22:16 < phogg> ayecee: get me one, too
22:16 < rascul> dStromboli_ you're going to need something more powerful than the rename from util-linux
22:16 < phogg> Indeed. The util-linux rename is pretty useless, IMO. I would even prefer a bash loop to it.
22:16 < mattfly> when he  does export |grep DISP
22:16 < mattfly>  
22:16 < mattfly> over the ssh session i get nothing but he gets declare -x DISPLAY="localhost:10.0"
22:17 < mattfly> whats the meaning of that, whats other way i can get this value
22:17 < dStromboli_> I'm surprised y'all have such a low opinion of it, it was made for exactly this kind of thing
22:17 < dStromboli_> Do you think the perl script would be better?
22:17 < rascul> it can't handle wildcards like you're trying
22:18 < [R]> mattfly: what?
22:18 < phogg> dStromboli_: if your needs are *extremely* simple this shell loop may cover it, but without safety guarantees: for f in * ; do mv "$f" "${f//.~[0-9]*~}" ; done
22:18 < mattfly> read on that video description
22:18 < phogg> dStromboli_: the perl rename command would get you there
22:19 < mattfly>  export |grep DISP, theres no output on new linux systems
22:19 < [R]> mattfly: sounds like you're not runnign it from within an X session
22:20 < phogg> mattfly: that just means you do not have an environment variables with DISP in their names, such as DISPLAY. You are probably not running X.
22:20 < phogg> s/an/any/
22:20 < phogg> or rather, nothing exported
22:20 < phogg> you could try: echo $DISPLAY and if that produces output you can export DISPLAY
22:20 < mattfly> im running x on both mathicnes
22:20 < mattfly> yeah i tried that
22:21 < dStromboli_> phogg: thanks, I'm downloading it now
22:21 < phogg> mattfly: what is your X display bound to? If it is :0 you can do this: export DISPLAY=:0
22:21 < mattfly> oaky
22:21 < mattfly> it was just :0 without the localhost part
22:21 < phogg> dStromboli_: mmv is nice. It lets you doing intuitive globbing for many scenarios and is very friendly about not making destructive mistakes. Tell your friends.
22:22 < mattfly> i got a black screen for a while and it crashed like expected
22:23 < toothe> anyone here use getmail?I
22:24 < phogg> No, no one.
22:24 < toothe> I was thinking of backing up my gmail, but I don't see how to stop it from retrieving all new emails.
22:24 < mattfly> https://pastebin.com/TQvNYmwN
22:24 < mattfly> any advice? :P
22:27 < toothe> I'm a little confused how to make it stop doing "all messages will be retrieved each time getmail is run"
22:29 < Shakka47> hi there
22:29 < dStromboli_> thanks phogg I got it working
22:58 < toothe> why would someone want to use mbox vs Maildir?
22:58 < toothe> maildir seems like the "superior" choice, no?
23:03 < lord|> anyone have any open source (i.e. pfSense or VyOS can be installed or are already installed) router recommendations?
23:04 < lord|> trying to find budget options
23:04 < lord|> wifi and at least 2 ethernet ports are required
23:05 < [R]> lord|: i think you are lost
23:05 < pankaj_> I just compiled the linux kernel but just one issue is that the wifi is not working.
23:05 < [R]> pankaj_: sounds like you're missing a driver
23:07 < pankaj_> It shiws me the error when i reach to tty
23:10 < pankaj_> []
23:11 < [R]> "the error" you say!
23:11 < pankaj_> [R]: it shows me error on tty and also delays for around 30 to 40 seconds at OS load rime to search for wifi connection. It reports error related to wifi device
23:11 < ayecee> well honestly, how many errors could there be
23:12 < [R]> ayecee: 3?
23:12 < ayecee> sounds about right
23:13 < [R]> maybe 4 on a rainy day
23:13 < ayecee> error related to rain on a wifi device
23:13 < [R]> instructions unclear
23:13 < [R]> peed on devic
23:13 < [R]> e
23:14 < cmj> hah
23:18 < steinex> lord|: have a look at ubnt EdgeRouters
23:19 < steinex> no wifi though
23:19 < steinex> but maybe a wifi dongle would work, some edgerouters have usb
23:20 < qrvpzvb> is there a way to add missing disks to lvm, like you can with mdadm?
23:20 < qrvpzvb> I just want to test how things work
23:21 < [R]> your mom is a dongle
23:23 < sauvin> [R], what a curious sense of the Freudian phallic you have.
23:24 < [R]> i said his mom
23:24 < [R]> not my mom
23:24 < toothe> ugh, I have to do a boring pentest report...
23:24 < toothe> sigh.
23:24 < [R]> toothe: put some colors in it
23:24 < sauvin> [R], I thought you said you spoke English.
23:24 < [R]> color always brightnes up my day
23:24 < toothe> good idea.
23:25 < toothe> actually, WPS and Libre are rendering this differently, so I do have to put some font changes in it.
23:28 < Mibix> i am having an issue with ubuntu 18.04 running in virtualbox
23:29 < Mibix> keeps freezing on the lock screen
23:29 < Mibix> https://imgur.com/a/XMIdkXe
23:29 < [R]> Mibix: so dont use something so heavy like gnome
23:29 < [R]> use something lighter
23:31 < steinex> [R]: ...
23:31 < steinex> [R]: kid.
23:33 < steinex> [R]: you have nothing to contribute other than telling people what they use is shit and should use something that you prefer or insult people trying to be helpful. how old are you? 13?
23:33 < ayecee> raaaage
23:34 < steinex> not at all
23:34 < qrvpzvb> wait, people still use gnome?
23:34 < ayecee> ok, it just _looks_ like raaaage
23:34 < eletious> qrvpzvb: yeah, Ubuntu made it the default as of 17.10
23:35 < qrvpzvb> I thought everyone was on tilling wms by now
23:35 < qrvpzvb> throw the mice out
23:36 < eletious> if only
23:37 < qrvpzvb> in fact, X itself is useless; vim works fine from the console
23:40 < qrvpzvb> I joke of course; it's not the 80's no more
--- Log closed Tue May 29 00:00:36 2018