--- Log opened Sat Jun 02 00:00:06 2018
--- Day changed Sat Jun 02 2018
00:00 < Dagmar> There's no reason it should have a "big issue" with a perfectly normal block size
00:00 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: It wouldn't let me install kept saying I was 3584 bytes too short or something, had to reformat the drive
00:00 < djph> Oxyz: sed?
00:00 < Oxyz> so like between a: and :
00:00 < Dagmar> It sounds like you didn't allocate the minimum amount of space required
00:00 < Shazam1203> Psi-Jack: Correct but what is strange is it gets this 12x ip during boot and says ok in green next to it.. but after boot there is no sign of it.
00:01 < Oxyz> djph: yea.. trying to figure out the syntax for sed..  or maybe awk?
00:01 < Psi-Jack> Shazam1203: Okay. How do you even know of it at all?
00:01 < Shazam1203> Psi-Jack: I can see it during the boot log.. Bringing up interface eth0:  Determining if ip address 41.43.233.233 is already in use for device eth0...
00:01 < Shazam1203>                                                            [  OK  ]
00:02 < Oxyz> djph:  sed "s/a:/a:$NB/" would do it..  but it will not work when going from 1 to 2 digits :/
00:02 < Psi-Jack> Shazam1203: What version of CentOS is that?
00:02 < tonyt> if dual boot is an opiton BSODjunkie, you could always use ubuntu and let it auto set it up. if come to the conclusion you are not happy with ubuntu you can always boot into windows and use drive management and delete the partition ubuntu was set up on and the volume, then just use drive management to reclaim the space used for that ubuntu partitiion. then after, use a usb tool to fix the
00:02 < tonyt> bootloader for windows
00:02 < Shazam1203> Psi-Jack: It was 6.5.. I updated to 6.9 and same thing on both
00:02 < Dagmar> ...or just wait for Windows to wreck it
00:02 < Psi-Jack> Shazam1203: How is it obtaining an IP at all? Static or DHCP?
00:03 < BSODjunkie> tonyt: Yea I guess that could have been a better option, I thought one of the cool parts of linux was having portable drives with persistent OS on it
00:03 < Shazam1203> Psi-Jack: I have the IP set static in the ifcfg-eth0 config
00:03 < Dagmar> :[0-9]+:
00:04 < Dagmar> ^That will match a sequence with only digits between two colons
00:04 < Psi-Jack> Shazam1203: And NetworkManager is not running?
00:04 < djph> well, if its what you put ... sed -e 's/:([0-9])\{1,\}:/$NB/' might be what youre after.  syntax may be off
00:04 < djph> or dagmars is probably far more sane
00:05 < Shazam1203> Psi-Jack: network manager was running.. I disabled it with chkconfig but same result
00:05 < Dagmar> djph: Easier to read
00:05 < Oxyz> djph: thanks..  trying =)
00:05 < Psi-Jack> Shazam1203: Quite unusual. Have you by chance tried getting help in #centos?
00:06 < qman__> Or used grep -r
00:06 < djph> Dagmar: that yours is
00:06 < Psi-Jack> Shazam1203: Only thing I can think of now, is do a mess grep -R and try to find anywhere that IP you see lives.
00:06 < Shazam1203> Psi-Jack: not yet.. but I will give that a shot =) no luck on centos forums so thought I would turn to irc
00:07 < Psi-Jack> Shazam1203: No cloud-init stuff?
00:07 < Shazam1203> Psi-Jack: I dont believe so.. how could I check?
00:08 < Psi-Jack> rpm -qa | grep cloud
00:08 < Shazam1203> Psi-Jack: yeah no results.. so no cloud init stuff
00:09 < Psi-Jack> That IP you showed earlier was 42.43.x.x, where'd the 12.x come from?
00:09 < Shazam1203> Psi-Jack: I meant 42x it was a typo lol
00:10 < Psi-Jack> heh
00:11 < BSODjunkie> How does grub work without my drive even being connected?
00:11 < BSODjunkie> not work but how does it go into grub or try to go into
00:11 < Psi-Jack> So did you try a massive grep -R?
00:12 < Psi-Jack> BSODjunkie: seems you installed grub on the internal drive.
00:12 < Shazam1203> Psi-Jack: Yeah I did.. didnt get anything related to the IP
00:12 < BSODjunkie> Psi-Jack: oh dear god, how do I figure that out
00:12 < Psi-Jack> Related?
00:13 < Psi-Jack> BSODjunkie: relax. It's just a boot loader. Heh
00:14 < BSODjunkie> Psi-Jack: wait so it's not on my main drive it's on a ROM on my mobo?
00:16 < Psi-Jack> No...
00:16 < Psi-Jack> It's on the MBR (BIOS) or UEFI EFI directory structure on your main drive.
00:16 < BSODjunkie> Psi-Jack: Basically my issue is that now i have to go into bios and manually change boot order every time I want to switch OS since it still thinks I want ubuntu even when ubuntu ssd is not plugged in :(
00:17 < Psi-Jack> Legacy BIOS or UEFI?
00:20 < BSODjunkie> Psi-Jack: It's set to try UEFI, and if that fails go legacy I think
00:20 < BSODjunkie> Psi-Jack: It's a Dell BIOS
00:21 < Psi-Jack> Umm.. That's not right at all.
00:21 < BSODjunkie> Psi-Jack: Well I know it's UEFI, but I remember ticking an option that said Legacy Bios or something
00:22 < jim> what are the OSes you're potentially booting?
00:22 < BSODjunkie> Psi-Jack: Also AHCI, not sure what that is either
00:22 < BSODjunkie> jim: My main OS is Windows 10, then I have Ubuntu 18.04 installed on external SSD
00:23 < Psi-Jack> BSODjunkie: It's either UEFI or Legacy, not both.
00:23 < BSODjunkie> Psi-Jack: Okay hang on gonna reboot to check, I'll snap a few pics
00:28 < jim> BSODjunkie, one way to do this, is install os-prober and then run grub-update... then maybe, the linux boot loader will find the windows and the ubuntu and put grub menu entries for each
00:28 < BSODjunkie> jim: Sorry could you explain what adding more grub menu entries means and what it would do
00:28 < jim> let me make sure that has a chance of working...
00:29 < weswes887> Hey
00:29 < BSODjunkie> https://imgur.com/a/geveEnK  here are the BIOS options
00:29 < ReScO> Hmpf, i'm gonna rewrite sedutil :/
00:29 < BSODjunkie> oops an image is missing hang on
00:29 < Dagmar> If you're going to have the machine boot via UEFI after the install, the install media _has to be booted via UEFI_'
00:29 < jim> instead of booting windows from its own boot loader, grub (with the help of os-prober) will find it, and then you would only need grub
00:29 < Dagmar> Otherwise the prober will not see what it needs to see and assume Legacy
00:30 < jim> so windows would appear in grub's menu at boot
00:30 < BSODjunkie> https://imgur.com/a/PZvmmyE here is the other missing image
00:30 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: So from the image I sent, seems I am booting from UEFI yea?
00:30 < jim> ohh, is it that grub is installed for legacy boot?
00:31 < BSODjunkie> jim: I sent BIOS images, I think it's UEFI right?
00:31 < Dagmar> BSODjunkie: _Normally_ you are
00:31 < Dagmar> That's a Dell and your last screenshot is it reading the UEFI items
00:31 < jim> and grub's not one of them?
00:32 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: So that means it's booting from UEFI right
00:32 < jim> yeah I think so
00:32 < BSODjunkie> jim: I am completely knew to this I am not sure what grub even is, all I did was to install ubuntu on external drive
00:32 < jim> being completely new is totally ok here ;)
00:32 < BSODjunkie> jim: My issue is that, when the external drive is disconnected and I turn my laptop on, it tries to but into ubuntu and shows me a grub thing with errors
00:33 < BSODjunkie> jim: Now I've manually changed the order so windows is first, but that's a pain because it means every time I have to manually change it
00:33 < jim> there have been a couple different boot loaders for linux, one's called lilo, that's from a long time ago, and the other is called grub
00:34 < Dagmar> You don't have to manually change it
00:34 < revel> There's also systemd-boot.
00:34 < Dagmar> UEFI has a menu system
00:34 < Dagmar> All you have to do is _pick_ Ubuntu at that menu
00:34 < revel> And UEFI generally simplifies the whole deal, yeah.
00:34 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Yea sorry thats what I mean, I guess I'll just have to spam F2 every time I boot haha
00:34 < jim> Dagmar, do you think grub was installed for legacy boot?
00:35 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Was just hoping for a simple automated solution, like it checks if Ubuntu SSD is plugged in, and if not boots into windows
00:35 < Dagmar> If you can change the boot _device_ order, sure
00:35 < Dagmar> Your SSD would have to have an EFI partition tho
00:35 < jim> oh ok
00:36 < Dagmar> If the BIOS were told to look for an external USB drive _first_, it would see the EFI on the SSD and boot from that
00:36 < jim> yeah, I had to break the "tho" habit too
00:37 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: So if my USB is not plugged in, that means that the bootloader is on my main drive, if it was on the SSD It wouldn't try to boot from it. What should I do do you think?
00:37 < BSODjunkie> SSD* not usb sorry
00:37 < Dagmar> It's pretty straightforward.
00:38 < Dagmar> There's a menu in there (I have a Dell sitting right next to me but I'm not booting it for this) that allows you to tell it which devices to search first for an EFI partition
00:38 < Dagmar> Find it.
00:38 < Dagmar> While the SSD is plugged in (and has an EFI partition) it should show up in the list
00:39 < Dagmar> That search order setting will be persistent
00:39 < Dagmar> Worst-case scenario, the BIOS is stupid and will simply derp out when the SSD isn't plugged in, and you can change the search order back
00:39 < Dagmar> ...but it works on the laptop here.
00:39 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Okay I think I understand that, but what I'm saying is, with the SSD not plugged in, it still goes into grub
00:39 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: meaning that somehow, grub is on the wrong drive and not on my external
00:40 < Psi-Jack> BSODjunkie: No, you really do mean USB. Since that's what the SSD is actually on. heh
00:40 < Dagmar> If you picked Ubuntu from the EFI selection menu, _yes it's going to hit grub next_
00:40 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Oh I see
00:40 < Dagmar> You can't exactly pass kernel params through EFI without a lot of hassle, so EFI chains over to GRUB when you select Ubuntu
00:41 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: and the EFI Partition you talked about I should add or would it already be there
00:42 < Psi-Jack> You can also change EFI priorities
00:42 < Dagmar> You will need to add it, which is going to involve some serious time moving the layout on the SSD around, or more handily just wiping the thing and creating a new partition table and then installing after booting a thumbdrive/dvd in UEFI mode
00:42 < Dagmar> It's gotta be the first partition
00:42 < revel> Dagmar: What hassle? I seem to be doing just fine with --unicode in efibootmgr.
00:42 < Dagmar> Sure you could do some illogical things with partitions not in logical order ont he disk, but then you'd just be back here later wanting to know how to make that strange warning message go away
00:43 < Dagmar> revel: Let me know when the kernel starts taking gecos-style parameters
00:43 < revel> And I have the EFI partition as my 5th partition.
00:43 < revel> Well, it's not ignoring the parameters.
00:44 < revel> All there in /proc/cmdline
00:44 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Oof I might leave it for now until I learn a bit more about this stuff, I finally got ubuntu "working" a few hours ago
00:44 < Dagmar> THat's probably a parameter only the EFI stub recognizes
00:44 < Dagmar> Let's not have the guy going through extra hoops
00:44 < Dagmar> He can barely handle one hoop at this stage
00:44 < revel> lol
00:44 < Dagmar> That's not a judgement, by the way
00:44 < revel> But the EFI data partition doesn't seem to have to be the 1st partition.
00:45 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Nah it's fine I've never done any of this, always been a pen on paper maths/physics guy haha
00:45 < Dagmar> This sh*t is complex, and people almost never dork with it unless they're fairly hardcore, so _most_ people are going to be _very_ asea in dealing with them
00:45 < Dagmar> BSODjunkie: I've been installing LInux on "things" for a couple of decades now
00:45 < Dagmar> It's kind of old hat
00:45 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: So in your opinion, was the external SSD Ubuntu a stupid idea? thought it was kind of cool, I don't like the idea of virtualmachines or dualboot for some reason
00:46 < Dagmar> No, it's just a PITA
00:46 < Dagmar> I'd honestly have just freed up about 16Gb of space on the main drive, installed the OS there, and told it to use the SSD as /home
00:46 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: yea that's for sure, linux stuff can be tricky. Even getting recent NVIDIA drivers took like 20mins for me
00:46 < Dagmar> (of course I'd also be using an encrypted filesystem for that)
00:47 < Dagmar> ...and now i shall go listen to people fuss about how "hard" WordPress is
00:47 < Dagmar> Hopefully there will be pizza or I might just bite someone
00:47 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: I'm gonna head to bed, enough linux for a day
00:48 < Dagmar> I don't even put PHP on my resume and I can haxor my way through Wordpress without much trouble
00:48 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: I enjoy sadism, I built myself a static site that uses ajax call to local json to build a blog haha
00:48 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: well "built", I used Shuffle.JS but I still found it hard.
00:48 < Dagmar> BSODjunkie: Actually I set them up with the SimplyStatic plugin because we can't have live Wordpress sitting around on a hacker site
00:49 < Dagmar> Not when we're telling people an unmaintained WP has a TTE (time 'til exploited) that's less than eight months
00:49 < Dagmar> We'd be pwned on the next 0day
00:49 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: I love static sites, my girlfriend needed a portfolio done, the cheapest sites are like $2/month and terrible load times, a static site on S3 with CF enabled gets like 200ms load time and we've never paid a cent
00:49 < Dagmar> Screw that
00:49 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: AWS free tier is a godsend haha
00:49 < Dagmar> BSODjunkie: SimplyStatic just takes the entire WP and exports it to a different DocumentRoot as a bunch of static HTML
00:50 < Dagmar> Near perfect prod/dev separation in one shot
00:50 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: interesting, do you find that these people actually need wordpress backend, or they just want a CMS
00:50 < Dagmar> We should probably just _write_ a damn CMS but everyone's pretty busy this year and I don't want to take man-hours away from dealing with the convention stuff
00:51 < Dagmar> Out of the ten people that usually show up there's probably 150 years of coding experience
00:51 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: isn't Jekyll the big thing right now
00:51 < Dagmar> FOTM frameworks are *not* a thing we're going to get into
00:51 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: it seems pretty simple and seems to have good CMS managers available for free or cheap
00:51 < Dagmar> Holy cripes no
00:51 < Dagmar> WP is bad enough
00:51 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: haha, never used it so I don't know
00:52 < Dagmar> At least with a zillion people eyeballing WP there's a decent chance bugs will be found and crushed quickly
00:52 < Dagmar> A whole new framework?
00:52 < Dagmar> yeah, let's use RoR so we can get pwned by i18n formatting bugs
00:52 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Jekyll doesn't seem like a proper "framework"
00:52 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: more like a way for CSS/HTML to be repeated so its easier to write content
00:52 < Dagmar> It only took down, what, three cryptocurrency exchanges in a two-year span?
00:53 < Dagmar> What we need to "write" could be handled with notepad
00:53 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Jekyll? are we talking about the static site generator
00:53 < Dagmar> The site is strictly for convention info updates and membership stuff
00:53 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Yea that's what I was saying, some customers can't handle pure html, so Jekyll "fixes" that
00:53 < Dagmar> These guys can deal with HTML without a fight
00:53 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Oh yea then theres no need for a CMS
00:53 < Dagmar> Keeping them coordinated and pushing content/updates to the places where people expect to find them is the big thing
00:54 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: I honestly find CMSes annoying for small projects. Kind of how LaTeX is better than Word
00:54 < Dagmar> Hence, just throwing up a WP dev site and a prod site that serves static docs
00:54 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: good point, I was thinking solo projects
00:54 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: I'm quite young still in uni, haven't had a chance to work on any major projects yet
00:54 < Dagmar> I ain't lookin' forward to digging around until I find a place to stick the patches we'll surely need to apply to the theme so updates won't send the site back to unflavored 1999
00:55 < Dagmar> BSODjunkie: You don't have to work on "major projects" so much as ya need to work in a highly organized fashion
00:55 < Dagmar> hax0ring things together only gets people so far
00:55 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Yea but that's the beauty of something like customized bootstrap, allows for very consistent efficient site
00:55 < Dagmar> Tends to cause chaos when multiple people get involved
00:56 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: I only know Python, R at a "intro" level, and SQL at a basic level right now
00:56 < Dagmar> Adding a smidgen of QA/Testing generally involves broaching hte subject of formal prod/dev separation and that's actually the _big_ hurdle for most folks who are used to basically, hedge-coding
00:56 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: I feel like it's time to start looking at trying to contribute in an organized open-source community like 0AD
00:56 < Dagmar> SQL will be handy
00:57 < Dagmar> Start keeping a list of reasons why people shouldn't be using it. ;)
00:57 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Yea right now I'm starting Datastructures/Algorithms, and doing Git/Test methodology stuff
00:57 < Dagmar> "None of your data has any actual relationships"
00:57 < Dagmar> "You're storing everything as a bloody VARCHAR"
00:57 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: haha I only know basic queries, haven't done much database design stuff yet
00:58 < Dagmar> "Why in god's name are you using a match against ''"
00:58 < dviola> inexperienced developers are trying to replace SQL systems with NoSQL databases, the webscale crowd
00:58 < Dagmar> I'll generally _write_ a quick lib to store things in fixed-length records until I have a reason to leverage SQL
00:58 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: I mean, to be honest isn't SQL best used for some simple queries and then you handle the rest in python or whatever?
00:59 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Nah that was stupid, you have to be careful with query efficiency I guess
00:59 < Dagmar> BSODjunkie: There's "simple" queries and there's "simple-minded" queries
00:59 < Dagmar> At my last steady gig, there were a room full of DBAs who would sing a song called "The Left Inner Join" song
00:59 < Dagmar> THey would sing this _at least_ once a week
00:59 < Dagmar> ...and they'd sing it every time they stumbled across someone doing a bunch of queries that basically, pulled their entire database into memory'
01:00 < twainwek> dviola: it's like the same thing hadn't been tried back in the 80s
01:00 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: pmed you not sure if I did it right
01:00 < Dagmar> You did.  I just typically ignore pms.  ;)
01:00 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: ah fair enough haha
01:00 < aclaivi> Let us all enjoy your problem BSODjunkie
01:00 < aclaivi> :)
01:00 < Dagmar> aclaivi++
01:00 < Dagmar> Lots of folks learn (ahem) through osmosis and lurking
01:01 < BSODjunkie> aclaivi: Wasn't a problem, I'm new to IRC and wanted to know if theres such a thing as contacts here, since I would love to make new internet friends
01:01 < Dagmar> We sort of act as interchangeable admin units here.  ;)
01:02 < BSODjunkie> I see, not sure what the rules are on off-topic talk here
01:02 < aclaivi> As long as it has to do with computers basically
01:02 < BSODjunkie> Other IRC chat I joined was quite strict on only talking about tech X for example haha
01:02 < jim> some people want to be well known, so they have a consistant way of getting to them on irc... same net, same nick all the time
01:03 < Dagmar> Some of us just don't want arsehats sullying our good name
01:03 < jim> others less so, and they come on as different nicks all the time
01:03 < BSODjunkie> I see, since I stopped gaming seems a struggle to find communities of people to talk to about tech
01:03 < aclaivi> I know that feeling
01:03 < rebelmoon> Anyone else here using kernel 4.17 already?
01:03 < aclaivi> Tbh I've been on IRC for like a week at most now and I am a big fan
01:04 < BSODjunkie> yea I'm just used to logging in and talking to the same internet people heh, weird when its just strangers
01:04 < Dagmar> Welcome to Multiplayer Notepad
01:04 < revel> Not before it's released.
01:04 < revel> Dagmar: Where's multiplayer ed?
01:04 < jim> BSODjunkie, did you get your boot working?
01:04 < rebelmoon> revel: Fair enough *-* I'm using it. I've verified that it works with Nvidia.
01:04 < BSODjunkie> jim: It boots and works but I'm going to leave it for now until I learn more
01:04 < Dagmar> revel: It died when people stopped using VMS
01:04 < revel> It should be released pretty soon anyhow.
01:04 < revel> VMS?
01:04 < BSODjunkie> jim: I didn't fix the boot order / grub issue if that's what you mean
01:05 < jim> does grub boot?
01:05 < Dagmar> revel: yeah for awhile (when VMS was still relevant) there was a different network chat thing that was used
01:05 < revel> Oh, VAX.
01:05 < Dagmar> I can't even remember the name of it anymore
01:05 < BSODjunkie> jim: I think you misunderstood a bit. Basically I have 2 drives. Main drive is Win10, then external drive is ubuntu. Ubuntu works fine, but when I remove the ubuntu drive and turn on my PC, it still boots into grub
01:06 < Dagmar> ...just that it was "not IRC" involved rather a lot of asterisks, and was usually found being used by students on VMS systems
01:06 < jim> BSODjunkie, that could mean grub is installed on your main drive
01:07 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea that's what i was told, too late to do anything now without a lot of work I think
01:07 < aclaivi> Are you on windows or ubuntu now?
01:07 < BSODjunkie> What's the thing called when you are loading linux and you can press e to enter commands
01:07 < BSODjunkie> aclaivi: Windows
01:07 < jim> want to try a quick experiment?
01:08 < BSODjunkie> jim: sure
01:08 < jim> which os are you running now?
01:08 < BSODjunkie> jim: as long as it won't damage my win10, don't have everything backed up from this week
01:08 < Dagmar> That's the grub menu
01:08 < rebelmoon> It's c to enter commands.
01:08 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Okay, is it normal for it to be SUPER slow? Like if I press down key it takes 1 sec to respond
01:08 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: meaning to navigate it takes like 3 mins easily
01:08 < Dagmar> That's not normal, no
01:08 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: okay yea I messed up
01:09 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: grub just handles the loading right, that won't be why I'm having performance issues
01:09 < aclaivi> Ya
01:09 < BSODjunkie> Dagmar: Could this be due to being on the wrong drive?
01:09 < rebelmoon> I imagine there's a time-out involved somewhere
01:09 < rebelmoon> It's waiting for something and timing out.
01:10 < jim> what are you in on your computer right now?
01:10 < BSODjunkie> yea it takes a long time to respond to commands in the grub menu
01:10 < Dagmar> No, but it could be do to something deranged going on with Legacy USB support
01:10 < BSODjunkie> jim: Win10
01:10 < jim> can you switch to ubuntu?
01:10 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea but don't have IRC installed, is there an easy way to use IRC on mobile or something
01:11 < aclaivi> https://webchat.freenode.net/
01:11 < BSODjunkie> aclaivi: or that
01:11 < rebelmoon> BSODjunkie: apt-get install hexchat
01:11 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: or that
01:11 < Dagmar> There are some Android IRC clients, but i'm not going to say that between the OSK and the tiny screens that they're easy to use
01:11 < jim> do you have your bsodjunkie password? alternatively... do you have a different machine you can irc from?
01:11 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea I do
01:11 < BSODjunkie> jim: I mean I have a password
01:12 < BSODjunkie> jim: I can just install hexchat. Is there anything you want me to do when booting into ubuntu
01:14 < BSODjunkie> jim: as in before I turn off irc anything you want me to do while booting or watch out for
01:14 < jim> ok... then you can try that... switch to ubuntu, then: sudo apt-get install hexchat... when that's done, run hexchat, find freenode network, connect to that net, switch to your BSODjunkie nick, then do /msg nickserv identify (put your password here)
01:15 < jim> then come here
01:15 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea okay brb
01:15 < jim> there's a chance :)
01:16 < aclaivi> Interesting that the linux install messed with windows. usually its the other way around
01:16 < aclaivi> Think the install just detected a boot partition and worked on that instead?
01:16 < jim> I guess it depends which you install first
01:17 < rebelmoon> The EFI should enable Windows Boot Manager.
01:17 < rebelmoon> I've never had problems booting anything since I've had an EFI-capable machine.
01:19 < BSODjunkie> I'm back in ubuntu
01:19 < aclaivi> Welcome
01:19 < BSODjunkie> aclaivi: thanks
01:19 < BSODjunkie> Something interesting, when I was booting ubuntu, I had a look it shows 3 small lines at start, and it said Windowsboot loader?
01:20 < rebelmoon> Yeah, grub detects Windows and enables a chain loader.
01:20 < rebelmoon> That means you can boot your Windows installation from grub.
01:20 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: Oh interesting
01:20 < BSODjunkie> jim: you there? I'm in ubuntu now
01:21 < rebelmoon> What's the problem? I'll see if I can help.
01:21 < aclaivi> A single partition may be both a system and a boot partition. However, in case they are separate, the boot partition does not contain the boot loader and the system partition does not have the system root.
01:21 < aclaivi> **windows**
01:21 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: jim wanted me to log into ubuntu to try something. Basically I have a laptop, it has 1 internal drive with WIndows 10
01:21 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: I installed ubuntu today on an external SSD
01:21 < Pentode> BSODjunkie, are you hHyP3r from earlier?
01:21 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: HOwever, when the external SSD is not plugged in and I boot my laptop, it boots into grub instead of windows
01:22 < BSODjunkie> Pentode: Sorry no
01:22 < BSODjunkie> Pentode: NOt unless I Misclicked something
01:22 < Pentode> weird, he was trying to do the exact same thing, lol.
01:22 < Pentode> carry on ;)
01:22 < BSODjunkie> Pentode: I am new to all this I May have misclicked haha
01:22 < rebelmoon> Yeah, it will, but you have 2 options: boot Windows from grub (should work), or if that doesn't work, tell your EFI to load Windows Boot Manager.
01:22 < BSODjunkie> Pentode: not sure if its possible for me to have had that nick somehow
01:23 < aclaivi> BSODjunkie: open terminal, apt-get install nc; then lsblk | nc termbin.com 9999
01:23 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: yea I don't know what EFI is but I wrote that down to lookup in the morning
01:23 < aclaivi> BSODjunkie: That will give us a good idea how your disks are setup. If you want to see what you are sending run lsblk first in your terminal
01:23 < BSODjunkie> aclaivi: all 1 line yea?
01:23 < aclaivi> You install nc first then run the other one
01:23 < aclaivi> Well thats odd
01:23 < zer0k> so guys, POP!_OS or PureOS -- differences?
01:23 < aclaivi> I broke him :(
01:24 < BSODjunkie> sorry cloed terminal
01:24 < rebelmoon> BSODjunkie: Go to the BIOS setup to access the EFI, that's only necessary if grub doesn't boot Windows, which I think it will, it usually works.
01:24 < BSODjunkie> apparently that closes hexchat
01:24 < BSODjunkie> could you write that code again?
01:24 < aclaivi> apt-get install nc
01:24 < aclaivi> and then once thats installed
01:24 < aclaivi> lsblk | nc termbin.com 9999
01:24 < aclaivi> and paste the url you get from that here (it will take a moment)
01:25 < BSODjunkie> http://termbin.com/3jcj
01:25 < BSODjunkie> btw thank you guys for the help, appreciate it a lot
01:25 < rebelmoon> np
01:26 < rebelmoon> That lsblk looks as expected for me.
01:26 < zer0k> hey someone '@' me real quick. i'm testing something in a container
01:26  * aclaivi waits
01:26 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: yea the 250gig drive is external and the tb is the internal win10
01:26 < rebelmoon> I gathered that.
01:27 < rebelmoon> Nice 1TB nvme *-*
01:27 < aclaivi> Quite a few partitions on the win10 one
01:27 < kurahaupo> zer0k: hi
01:27 < rebelmoon> aclaivi: Windows always does that.
01:27 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: yea it's a 960 pro OEM
01:27 < rebelmoon> Sweet
01:27 < aclaivi> oh
01:27 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: SM961 If you like OEM drives haha
01:27 < rebelmoon> Fair enough.
01:28 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: sorry someone told me earlier how to quickly test my SSD speed but I lost it, io something
01:28 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: because I have a hunch the SSD isn't performing the way it should be
01:28 < zer0k> kurahaupo: thanks. looks like it didn't work tho :/ haha
01:29 < rebelmoon> BSODjunkie: sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=test.zero bs=1048576 count=8192
01:29 < aclaivi> rebelmoon: So likely case here is that the EFI boot is given preference over win10?
01:29 < aclaivi> Moving /boot/efi to the external and updating his fstab would fix it right
01:30 < rebelmoon> Yeah, aclaivi, grub has replaced the Windows EFI hook as the default, but the Windows Boot Manager is still there if you choose it in the BIOS.
01:30 < BSODjunkie> 8589934592 bytes (8.6 GB, 8.0 GiB) copied, 8.73087 s, 984 MB/s
01:30 < BSODjunkie> that can't be right
01:30 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: looks like you have win10 booting natively with uefi. try running "efibootmgr" to peruse the available boot methods and their defined order.
01:30 < rebelmoon> That's not a good speed at all.
01:31 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: wait which one is which again, I'm supposed to get max sata III bandwith
01:31 < rebelmoon> BSODjunkie: I assumed that was on the nvme drive, but I forgot
01:31 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: just run that into terminal?
01:31 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: The external is supposed to get around 450mb/s read and write
01:31 < rebelmoon> BSODjunkie: You're using the external drive, so yeah, that's a good speed.
01:32 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: yea but what I'm saying is it's an impossible speed, it's faster than the theoretical limit...
01:32 < rebelmoon> Yeah, it's weird. I don't know how that happens.
01:32 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: isn't the theoretical sataiii limit like 550?
01:32 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: yes, as root. it won't change anything, but will display useful information - assuming the efi variables are available in your linux environment.
01:32 < BSODjunkie> sure hang on
01:33 < BSODjunkie> https://justpaste.it/4pe7o
01:33 < BSODjunkie> the result
01:33 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: ok. this is easy to resolve. you can redefine the "BootOrder".
01:33 < aclaivi> Plugging that ubuntu external drive into other PC's wont boot though would it
01:33 < aclaivi> Since the boot part is on his internal
01:33 < BSODjunkie> aclaivi: never tried
01:34 < BSODjunkie> aclaivi: yea that makes sense
01:34 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: efibootmgr -o 0000,0001,0002,0003,0004,0005,0006,0007
01:34 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: (0000 being windows)
01:34 < rebelmoon> But I think you probably want grub to load rather than Windows; grub gives you a choice between Linux and Windows.
01:34 < jim> BSODjunkie, did you make it into ubuntu?
01:34 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea heh
01:34 < jim> and so you're running hexchat?
01:34 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: so that would make windows boot first?
01:34 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea
01:35 < aclaivi> rebelmoon: For an system where all the drives are internal that makes sense, but what about this case?
01:35 < rebelmoon> If you run the command that kerframil has suggested, then Windows will boot without giving you a choice to run Linux.
01:35 < kerframil> rebelmoon: that might not be desirable if everything beyond grub's uefi executable resides on an  external drive that isn't already plugged in
01:35 < kerframil> s/already/always/
01:35 < jim> cool.. hexchat is one of a bunch of choices
01:35 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea I was running it on windows so it's nice to have something I recognize haha
01:35 < rebelmoon> kerframil: Oh, true.
01:35 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: correct. and you should still be able to override (by tapping F12 or however your mobo does it).
01:36 < jim> ok, now do this: sudo apt-get install os-prober
01:36 < kerframil> rebelmoon: otherwise, I would be in agreeement - chainloading the windows uefi payload would have been a fine option
01:36 < jim> not sure the name is right, try it see what happens
01:36 < aclaivi> jim: http://termbin.com/3jcj thats their lsblk if you need
01:36 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: I see but, if I overwrite it, I'm back to the same problem right, because the boot order you are telling me to change is what I'm changing in BIOS Manually
01:36 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea already newest version
01:37 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: usually you can tap a key to select which entry you want to boot. it's unusual to have to go into the setup and explicitly re-define the permanent order.
01:37 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: Basically what I was hoping for, is that BIOS tries to boot into ubuntu, and if it doesn't see ubuntu (the external ssd), it then moves on to next boot device which would be windows.
01:38 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: That way, I never have to go into BIOS
01:38 < rebelmoon> That's not possible, BSODjunkie, it doesn't know.
01:38 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: it's not that simple
01:38 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: do you understand the basics of how UEFI works?
01:38 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: no sorry
01:38 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: never dealt with any of this low-level stuff before
01:38 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: so, you have one EFI system partition for a given drive
01:38 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: I THought boot order checks what is there, and if it's not there moves onto next one no?
01:39 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: that's the 99M partition in your case
01:39 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: it's formatted as FAT32. within that filesystem, there is a directory named "EFI". beneath it, operating systems can install a special kind of executable. your mobo firmware can look for - and load - these executables.
01:40 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: I See, so far that's kind of what I Thought
01:40 < jim> BSODjunkie, ok, run sudo -i (you'll be logged in as root, so, be careful things are spelled right before you hit enter)
01:40 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: once the executable is loaded, the firmware is out of the picture. so, for instance, if the intitial grub UEFI executable loads, and fails, you have a problem. grub is a very complex bootloader, it needs more than just the initial UEFI payload to work properly.
01:40 < BSODjunkie> jim: go ahead jim
01:40 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: so, if you have the rest of grub's parts on the external drive ... that's a problem
01:40 < jim> after that does yuour prompt end in #?
01:40 < Bashing-om> BSODjunkie: " <ubottu> UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines  please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI " .
01:41 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: but if the executable isn't there, would it just crash? if it cannot find an executable
01:41 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea
01:41 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: the ESP is on your NVMe. it will be there.
01:41 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: but that's just the first stage of grub loading and doing what it does
01:41 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: I see but theoretically if you had 2 drives, one with linux, 1 with ubuntu, and you plugged one out, the BIOS Would be forced to boot into the one still plugged in no?
01:42 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: long story short, you have two plausible options. one is to put windows first in the sequence and just tap a key to do a one-time override when you boot, if your board allows for it
01:42 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: that's what I'm confused about, the BIOS searches for the executable, so if its not there, why doesn't it move on to the next boot option
01:42 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: the other is to have all of grub be able to operate from the internal drive, not the external one, and add an option to grub to chainload the windows uefi bootloader. then always boot grub.
01:42 < jim> sec
01:42 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: yea I'll probably do that
01:43 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: I meant the first thing
01:43 < kerframil> BSDBlack: it is there. grub isn't just wrapped up all in one single executable, wrapped in a bow tie.
01:43 < kerframil> oops
01:43 < kerframil> BSODjunkie, sorry
01:43 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: haha no worries
01:43 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: the UEFI exectuable is just the first stage of grub loading. it's a very powerful and complex bootloader.
01:44 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: in other words, it depends on some additional files. if those files are on your external drive ...
01:44 < BSODjunkie> kerframil: is there a golden book for low-level stuff like this? KInd of like how we have ISLR or intro to algos by MIT?
01:44 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/
01:44 < jim> BSODjunkie, when you type nc <enter>, do yuou get a small paragraph of options?
01:44 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: and the official grub documentation, I suppose
01:45 < BSODjunkie> jim: you mean literally type "<enter>" or press enter
01:45 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: as for selecting alternate entries during POST, some boards let you do it if you tap F12 or such
01:46 < rebelmoon> On my MSI board it's F11
01:46 < BSODjunkie> jim: ?
01:47 < jim> BSODjunkie, press enter key :)
01:47 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea some options in brackets
01:47 < jim> ok, that means we know nc is installed :)
01:48 < jim> so now, run this:
01:48 < jim> grub-update 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
01:49 < jim> what that will do, is run the grub update, and pastebin it
01:49 < BSODjunkie> um it says grub-update command not found in output file
01:49 < BSODjunkie> http://termbin.com/nhm4
01:49 < jim> oops :) grub-update not found
01:51 < jim> ok, try it this way instead:
01:51 < kerframil> that's probably because he wasn't root
01:51 < jim> oh maybe
01:51 < Bashing-om> jim: BSODjunkie ' sudo update-grub ' .
01:52 < jim> wait
01:52 < uplime> is it common for root to have a different PATH?
01:52 < jim> he is root
01:52 < kerframil> uplime: yes
01:52 < BSODjunkie> yea I'm already in root
01:52 < jim> yes it is
01:52 < aclaivi> "jim | after that does yuour prompt end in #?"
01:52 < uplime> weird
01:52 < rebelmoon> update-grub rather than grub-update?
01:52 < aclaivi> Give your boy jim some credit guys
01:52 < BSODjunkie> oh yea he wrote update-grub, should I try that one
01:53 < kerframil> uplime: I find it to be very silly, but I've encountered a few popular distros that do
01:53 < Bashing-om> jim: For your notes I do run (x)ubuntu developement releases .
01:54 < rascul> user $PATH often might not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, /usr/local/sbin
01:54 < esselfe> some distribution have grub2-update
01:54 < BSODjunkie> I am on Ubuntu 18.04
01:54 < esselfe> (Ubuntu iirc)
01:54 < BSODjunkie> lol
01:54 < jim> BSODjunkie, try: update-grub 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
01:55 < BSODjunkie> http://termbin.com/2qyw
01:55 < rebelmoon> Perfect
01:56 < BSODjunkie> rebelmoon: any simple explanation for what I just did
01:56 < jim> great, that found windows
01:56 < rebelmoon> BSODjunkie: You just generated the config file that grub uses to load installed OSs.
01:56 < jim> what we should probably do is install grub on the ssd
01:56 < jim> but, try booting that
01:57 < triceratux> plus yer running that ancient ubuntu 18.04 4.15 kernel
01:57 < BSODjunkie> 1triceratux: I just downloaded from ubuntu, is there anything newer?
01:57 < BSODjunkie> jim: so you mean on the external ssd that I have ubuntu on yea?
01:58 < triceratux> BSODjunkie: just arch. youre fine. youre clearly what you say you are is all
01:58 < jim> triceratux, don't confuse him :)
01:58 < ziggylazer> Hey all
01:58 < jim> hi
01:58 < rebelmoon> Arch is a really nice distro *-*
01:58 < aclaivi> ._.
01:59 < rebelmoon> But as far as the kernel, you can compile any kernel on Ubuntu as well.
01:59 < BSODjunkie> jim: so would this be do-able without endangering my win10
01:59 < jim> BSODjunkie, when you boot that, see if there's an entry in the grub menu for windows, and try that entryu
02:00 < jim> yes it should be
02:00 < BSODjunkie> jim: so should I Just restart, go into bios and snap a pic of the boot settings?
02:00 < BSODjunkie> jim: where would "entry for windows" be? I haven't touched the grub menu
02:00 < jim> sure... and the grub menu shouild have an entry for that
02:00 < ziggylazer> Anyone thats super bored and want to help me keep my sanity? Doing some hack the box excersices. And Done a lot of them but now stuck on one of the easies onces and I just cant see the solution. Itss bypassing login to a site
02:00 < jim> (take a look at the pastebin)
02:00 < yourname> hack the box?
02:00 < BSODjunkie> jim: Oh also, 1 issue with grub menu, it's extremely slow, when I had to press e to change a setting, it literally took 3 minutes to navigate the menu due to lag
02:01 < ziggylazer> yourname, yeah
02:01 < BSODjunkie> jim: not sure if thats because its on a different drive?
02:01 < ziggylazer> host: 88.198.233.174 port:57816
02:01 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: bruteforce it
02:01 < ziggylazer> Nah
02:01 < jim> BSODjunkie, well we can try installing it on the other drive...
02:02 < sacules> nice
02:02 < ziggylazer> Its some simple solution that I just cant see
02:02 < BSODjunkie> jim: well lets check what you said first, when you said windows entry where would that be? when ubuntu is loading or where?
02:02 < markasoftware> does nouveau have vsync enabled by default, and if so (i suspect it does), how do i disable it?
02:02 < BSODjunkie> jim: grub pops up when ubuntu is loading right?
02:02 < jim> and then windows has ways to fix the boot so grub isn't on that drive any more
02:02 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: what service is on that port
02:03 < markasoftware> even when i disable the kde compositor things like glxgears limit themselves to 60 frames
02:03 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: if you want to really understand this, look under /boot/efi.
02:03 < jim> BSODjunkie, there should be a grub menu first
02:03 < ziggylazer> Oh sorry should be port 80.
02:03 < BSODjunkie> jim: yea the thing that flashes and counts down for like 4 seconds right?
02:03 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: that's the current mount point for your EFI system partition - the second partition of your nvme drive.
02:03 < BSODjunkie> jim: mine has like 3 or 4 lines on top left of screen
02:03 < ziggylazer> Thats just another excersice that I got when I scanned it
02:04 < jim> BSODjunkie, before you do anything...
02:04 < kerframil> BSODjunkie: however, the /boot directory itself is part of the filesystem on sda1.
02:04 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: which lab are you doing? I might spin one up for the sake of it
02:05 < jim> BSODjunkie, let's pause for about 10 minutes... I have an irl thing I have to take care of
02:05 < ziggylazer> [30 Points] Cartographer
02:05 < eblip> ziggylazer: its not as easy to hack a machihne just because someone gives you an ip address and http port
02:05 < eblip> you need to know a lot more
02:05 < BSODjunkie> jim: it's getting really late here, are you on tomorrow?
02:05 < eblip> you can use sql injection
02:05 < aclaivi> Did you run nikto on the site
02:05 < BSODjunkie> jim: this isn't urgent
02:05 < ziggylazer> eblip,
02:05 < eblip> or you may be able to do something with netcat
02:05 < aclaivi> There's like a million things we dont know about it lol
02:05 < jim> oh ok, sure
02:05 < ziggylazer> This one is easy
02:05 < eblip> but jsut saying hey how can i bypass login this ip and port
02:05 < ziggylazer> sqlinjection doesnt work
02:05 < BSODjunkie> jim: thanks so much for your help
02:06 < jim> welcome
02:06 < ziggylazer> Cross site might work
02:06 < BSODjunkie> jim: I'm just extremely tired better go to bed or I will never remember what I've been doing haha
02:06 < eblip> tell you what ...its exactly the same as saying hey how can i bypass loging to www.barclaysbank.com port 80
02:06 < eblip> it tells nobody nothing
02:06 < eblip> and means you dont have  aclue what you are on about
02:07 < ziggylazer> eblip, did you take a look at the excersice?
02:07 < BSODjunkie> goodnight guys
02:07 < ziggylazer> Itts rated easy
02:07 < eblip> no unless i missed something all i saw was an ip and port number
02:07 < eblip> and you asking how to bypass login
02:07 < eblip> iff i missed something then i appologise
02:08 < ziggylazer> I dont even have the energy eblip
02:08 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: oh I didn't realise you have to sign up for htb
02:08 < aclaivi> rip
02:08 < ziggylazer> wait I can spin mine up again
02:09 < qrvpzvb> do I need to enable iommu when booting?
02:09 < qrvpzvb> like, in the kernel boot line?
02:09 < AndroidKitKat> can someone explain to me the syntax of $RANDOM? or can you point me where to look for it?
02:10 < AndroidKitKat> I found this cryptic piece of syntax and it vaguely makes sense
02:10 < AndroidKitKat> $(( ( RANDOM % 10 )  + 1 ))
02:10 < AndroidKitKat> which generates a number from 1 to 10
02:10 < Sitri> AndroidKitKat: man bash
02:10 < qrvpzvb> yes
02:10 < AndroidKitKat> ill read there, thanks
02:11 < Sitri> Look for "random" and "arithmatic expansion"
02:11 < ziggylazer> http://88.198.233.174:57932/
02:11 < AndroidKitKat> thank you
02:11 < AndroidKitKat> appreciate it
02:13 < ziggylazer> If anyone sees something shady you are more then welcome to share :)
02:13 < aclaivi> Having a look now
02:14 < aclaivi> was quickly getting an invite to htb
02:14 < aclaivi> Have been doing boxes on vulnhub
02:14 < ziggylazer> Took me around 1h
02:14 < AndroidKitKat> so if i wanted to generate a number between 30000 and 45000 I would $(( ( RANDOM % 45000 ) + 30000 ))?
02:14 < ziggylazer> aaro, WHY DO YOU CHECK MY VERSION?
02:14 < kurahaupo> That's between 30000 and 84999
02:15 < kurahaupo> Err, 74999
02:15 < AndroidKitKat> hmm
02:15 < ziggylazer> CTCP version is just so rude dude
02:15 < ziggylazer> aaro,
02:15 < Pentode> so he can hax0r you
02:15 < rascul> ziggylazer at least you weren't fingered
02:15 < ziggylazer> ;)
02:16 < Pentode> lol
02:17 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: did you run dirb against it
02:18 < kurahaupo> AndroidKitKat: $(( RANDOM % ( max - min + 1 ) + min ))
02:18 < ziggylazer> No, that could be something
02:18 < kerframil> kurahaupo: RANDOM tops out at 2 ** 15 - 1
02:18 < AndroidKitKat> thanks kurahaupo
02:18 < aclaivi> I'd run dirb against it with the common wordlist first and see what it comes up with
02:18 < kerframil> kurahaupo: so the range will be narrow than that
02:18 < kurahaupo> kerframil: oh, right
02:18 < aclaivi> If nothing, run with a larger list
02:19 < ziggylazer> But at the same time. I think there is a solution in the build
02:19 < ziggylazer> Atleat thats what the formus indicate
02:19 < kerframil> AndroidKitKat: basically, modulo anything above 32767 is useless. bash RANDOM never produces any numbers higher than that.
02:20 < AndroidKitKat> but i could use like python to
02:20 < AndroidKitKat> that i know has built in random craps
02:20 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: I found that a lot of these just end up giving you a webserver that you have to run dirb on and then either crawl or use metasploit
02:20 < ziggylazer> I ran nmap got the server.
02:21 < ziggylazer> And version. Did not find a good aux for that apache
02:21 < ziggylazer> crawl I did
02:21 < aclaivi> you probs weren't going to get much out of the crawl if the only thing you know is that it starts on a login
02:21 < aclaivi> Once you dirb it you can find more points to crawl
02:21 < ziggylazer> maybe cross site scripting oor some key value pair
02:22 < ziggylazer> aclaivi, true
02:22 < eblip> well its running apachi so you should try apache http daemon exploit
02:22 < eblip> https://bpaste.net/show/0e2d277af703
02:24 < ziggylazer> jim are we fine with ppl gathering intel on eachother in here?
02:24 < rascul> gathering intel?
02:25 < ziggylazer> eblip, so that was step 1A. Checked MSF and couldent find any good aux to use
02:25 < aclaivi> Enumerating your VM isn't the same as hacking you
02:25 < ziggylazer> rascul, ctcp verssion
02:25 < aclaivi> ah
02:25 < rascul> ziggylazer why does that bother you?
02:26 < jim> ziggylazer, I'm not totally sure what you meant
02:26 < ziggylazer> Ok I give
02:27 < jim> are there folks burying people with intel chips?
02:28 < ziggylazer> Just bad form
02:29 < rascul> if there's info you consider sensitive in your version query replies, it's partially you're fault for not changing it
02:29 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: Signed up for htb, will spin up the vm now
02:29 < rascul> s/you're/your/
02:29 < ziggylazer> rascul, no argument about that here
02:30 < ziggylazer> Just dont see how it lines up with the spirit of the community but that on me. ;)
02:30 < ziggylazer> aclaivi, nice time
02:30 < ziggylazer> Cracked the Weak RSA before that
02:31 < ziggylazer> Had a public and needed the private
02:32 < aclaivi> oh goddamn online platforms
02:34 < ziggylazer> Thay are mostly for ffun but further in it gets "real"
02:35 < ziggylazer> Crypto challenges just gives you a deeper understanding of the math behind it I guess. Always usefull
02:35 < aclaivi> I don't like that I have to join their vpn tho :(
02:35 < aclaivi> I wonder if I can have two openvpn tunnels open at the same time
02:36 < ziggylazer> Yeah I know
02:38 < aclaivi> After trying to reduce my web fingerprint, google is absolutely hammering me with captchas
02:38 < jim> if you have a signed 16 bit number, the max positive number is 32767
02:39 < aclaivi> Time to use ddg again i guess
02:39 < jim> and I was scrolled way up
02:39 < uplime> are signed numbers more secure than unsigned numbers?
02:40 < jim> dunno
02:40 < jim> signed integers usually use a sign bit and twos complement
02:41 < uplime> i was making a stupid joke
02:42 < ovidnis> hi, i'm having some troubles with laptop power management. sometimes when it enters suspend it ends up just shutting off entirely. other times upon waking from suspend the screen remains off
02:45 < ziggylazer> aclaivi, If you find another port open on the server it leads to another case
02:45 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: tbh rn I'm trying to figure out if I can setup both my VPN connections to run at the same time
02:46 < aclaivi> Because they don't seem to want to
02:46 < ziggylazer> Oh. I tried creating a route but that failed
02:53 < aclaivi> Looks like I got it working
02:54 < aclaivi> the vpn, that is
02:54 < ziggylazer> Yeah how did u set it up?
02:54 < aclaivi> Created a second tunnel device in ip and modified the config provided by htb
02:54 < aclaivi> sudo ip tuntap add mode tun one_queue
02:55 < aclaivi> ip tuntap list
02:55 < aclaivi> and then whatever that tunnel is called change in the conf
02:55 < ziggylazer> Nicec
02:56 < aclaivi> So now do I just pick a machine
02:56 < aclaivi> or can I setup a specific one
02:56 < ziggylazer> Under challanges
02:56 < ziggylazer> web---->carthograper
02:56 < ziggylazer> (spelling)
02:57 < ziggylazer> Thats the one
02:57 < ziggylazer> See rating? easy
02:57 < aclaivi> Alrighty
02:57 < ziggylazer> This is going to hurt if you take it in 5 mins
02:58 < aclaivi> I doubt I will
02:59 < aclaivi> ah shit forgot i dont have dirb installed
02:59 < aclaivi> btw /panel.php?info=home
03:00 < aclaivi> theres a start for you if you havent already found it
03:00 < ziggylazer> Red hearing as far as we could see
03:01 < ziggylazer> Like an animated guy smaching his head in a wall and stuff like that
03:01 < ziggylazer> Kind of funny
03:02 < ziggylazer> Anyways if you are going to solve it and want to share some thinking I'm always up to learn
03:02 < ziggylazer> So would gladly take any insights. The answer without them is pointless
03:04 < aclaivi> ok so dirb would take a million years to brute that slowboi
03:05 < ziggylazer> Doubt that they create excersices that are based on guessing
03:05 < yakiza> anyone knows why this doesnt work ? https://prnt.sc/jprnec
03:05 < aclaivi> vulnhub definitely did lol
03:06 < aclaivi> Can't just rule it out because it doesn't sound like fun
03:06 < ziggylazer> True
03:07 < mattfly> hey
03:07 < mattfly> about the path variable
03:07 < ziggylazer> mm
03:08 < mattfly> how can I can i change which executalbe i want to run, from the same with the same name, that i want to run
03:08 < mattfly> example
03:08 < aclaivi> change the order of paths in path
03:08 < mattfly> without changing the path
03:08 < aclaivi> symlink the executable to a path higher in the chain?
03:09 < mattfly> i dont want something statical, permanete
03:09 < mattfly> i just want to switch and then switch back while using the shell
03:10 < mattfly> i thought there was maybe something built for it
03:10 < winsoff> I have an old AMD Athlon (2650e) laptop that I was thinking of tossing a lightweight distro on, but it would be used by someone who "hates technology." Is there anything I can put on it that will at least free up enough resources for browsing to be bearable?
03:11 < strive> winsoff: Ubuntu.
03:11 < strive> winsoff: Why not?
03:11 < hatp> lubuntu
03:11 < winsoff> strive: Ubuntu's window manager is pretty hefty, isn't it?
03:11 < lyr3> Debian SID >
03:12 < dviola> "hates technology." <-- is that because of their previous experience with windows?
03:12 < chchjesus> I installed Xubuntu onto a laptop for my parents once
03:12 < winsoff> dviola: Very good question. Pahaha.
03:12 < strive> Xubuntu would be good.
03:12 < chchjesus> It was good
03:12 < chchjesus> I gave them a brief overview of it
03:12 < ziggylazer> aclaivi, If you are waiting for installs and susch try the crypto weak RSA challange
03:12 < chchjesus> how to access thunderbird, and firefox
03:13 < ziggylazer> And do it by hand untill you need the script ;)
03:13 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: this cartographer one has got me quite interested, given how little info it provides
03:13 < winsoff> aclaivi: You're doing crypto challenges?
03:14 < aclaivi> winsoff: ziggylazer and I are messing around with some challenges on hack the box
03:15 < winsoff> Sounds pretty fun. I should make time for doing something like that.
03:16 < ziggylazer> aclaivi, check the call stacks.. I think the solution can be found there
03:16 < ziggylazer> winsoff, join the fun
03:16 < ziggylazer> Its addictive
03:17 < winsoff> Uh oh. Looks like this laptop doesn't have USB boot. It's got network boot, though. Does anyone have a recommendation on how I can crashcourse pxe booting?
03:17 < ziggylazer> winsoff, that doesnt seem fun at all ;)
03:18 < winsoff> I just want to avoid using a CD. Pahaha.
03:19 < meyou> read failed after 0 of 4096 at 4096: Input/output error
03:20 < meyou> blech, had a brownout and 1 of 2 luns on an old adaptec raid card became degraded, replaced the bad disk and let iot rebuild, but the whole time we're getting that error when trying to vgscan or anything else that reads that device
03:21 < meyou> some extra storage for restoring to is on the way there now but curious if there's anything obvious that might be done to get this one back online
03:22 < ziggylazer> aclaivi, done with SQL injection ? ;)
03:22 < aclaivi> The only injection I did was ' or 1<>'
03:22 < aclaivi> and that was to land me on /panel.php
03:23 < aclaivi> have been running dirb against panel.php?info= for a while now but it is very slow
03:23 < aclaivi> perhaps theres some stego in the catrographer image
03:23 < ziggylazer> Checked
03:23 < ziggylazer> Nothing
03:25 < aclaivi> Dirb found nothing on the common wordlist against the php file
03:25 < aclaivi> will just run it again against the root directory while I look for other things
03:26 < ziggylazer> Yeah. I'm doing [30 Points] Brainy's Cipher
03:35 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: lmao i solved it
03:35 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: You're going to kill yourself tho
03:35 < ziggylazer> I dont want to hear it
03:35 < ziggylazer> I am so pissed
03:36 < ziggylazer> Good for you man :)
03:36 < ziggylazer> Was it that eaasy?
03:36 < aclaivi> I would rate it dumb/10
03:36 < ziggylazer> Hahaha
03:36 < ziggylazer> Ok
03:36 < ziggylazer> If u want
03:37 < aclaivi> Like there's no actual tricky things
03:37 < ziggylazer> I'd like a pointer in PM
03:37 < ziggylazer> Right!!!
03:37 < ziggylazer> No tricky things
03:37 < aclaivi> You tell the panel.php?info= exactly what info you want
03:37 < ziggylazer> oh wait.....
03:38 < ziggylazer> Need to spin it up again. You just modify the url?
03:38 < aclaivi> yes
03:38 < ziggylazer> THATS THE SOLUTION?
03:38 < aclaivi> yeah its depressing
03:38 < Mistell> ...when the hole appears https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeluTmKXcAE8i6z.jpg
03:39 < Mistell> underwhelming.
03:39 < ziggylazer> I spent more then 4 hours on this
03:39 < aclaivi> haha
03:39 < aclaivi> feels BAD
03:39 < Mistell> I swear like 10 boxes in the current set are exactly that
03:39 < ziggylazer> Its just crule
03:39 < Mistell> like "ffs 0 ocsp boxes were that dumb"
03:39 < ziggylazer> Wanna do a crypto
03:39 < Mistell> yet here I am, 3 hours in
03:40 < aclaivi> So what do the points mean
03:40 < ziggylazer> done with a few that was fun
03:40 < aclaivi> Is there a way I view mine or omsething
03:40 < Mistell> aclaivi: means you're a real good leet hacker.
03:40 < Mistell> and when you talk in shoutbox people know it, damnit.
03:40 < ziggylazer> Not sure.. Guess the register somewhere I just do the stuff
03:40 < aclaivi> 0hw0w
03:41 < Mistell> + the more points you get the more you should go outside.
03:41 < Mistell> Though we never heed that warning.
03:41 < aclaivi> for every 100 points add 5kg to your bench
03:41 < ziggylazer> Hahahaa
03:41 < Mistell> eeexactly.
03:41 < Mistell> I wish HTB had a solid freenode presence
03:42 < Mistell> they've got that active MM server but...
03:42 < ziggylazer> Do the brain or the RSA crypto
03:42 < ziggylazer> And no stealing code;)
03:42 < aclaivi> the weak RSA one?
03:43 < ziggylazer> That one will go fast for u
03:43 < promach_> JimBuntu RayTracer : see https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PPsvfVrgy9/
03:43 < aclaivi> Hopefull, but half the time I feel like I just luck out
03:43 < ziggylazer> With scripting I did it around 1h
03:44 < promach_> JimBuntu RayTracer : line 2158 is where it is not being responsive
03:50 < Mistell> Hackthebox is this, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8B5dqjsZUs
03:51 < aclaivi> yes
03:55 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: did you use the rsactftool
03:55 < ziggylazer> no!
03:55 < aclaivi> Cool. Felt like that would be a little easy
03:56 < ziggylazer> You kind of have to build it yourselfe
03:56 < ziggylazer> Got the math down?
03:57 < aclaivi> Working on it...
03:57 < aclaivi> Reading pdfs. Is the sha256 that we get with the zip password relevant, or is that just a checksum of the zip itself
03:58 < annihilator> I'm having windows withdraws
03:58 < annihilator> Is that normal?
03:58 < lupine> nope
03:59 < revel> A good dose of it made me stop having them for good.
03:59 < domhnall> annihilator: I'm having cold pizza
03:59 < ziggylazer> aclaivi, Focus on the RSA
03:59 < annihilator> What should I do dr. Lupine
03:59 < ziggylazer> dont mind the sum
03:59 < aclaivi> Righto. I'm reading up on RSA now
03:59 < lupine> consult your therapist
04:00 < annihilator> I am used to windows because of my gaming. But I'm tired of the BS of it. So I'm going to linux and prolly use crossover for some of my windows games.
04:00 < lupine> FWIW wine 3.mumble plays plenty of DX11 games without a complaint
04:01 < annihilator> Lutris is my friend lmao
04:01 < ziggylazer> and aclaivi normaly there is another extremely vital part of using RSA as a framework that you can totaly dissregard or it would take forever so crack
04:01 < annihilator> But my biggest game atm is final fantasy 14
04:01 < annihilator> Its 4.5 on crossover and gold on wine
04:05 < revel> There seems to be Direct3D 12 support in Wine now as well?
04:05 < revel> ( https://source.winehq.org/git/vkd3d.git/ )
04:08  * kundunbr says whazuuuup! ;) 
04:09 < winsoff> This old laptop is so responsive. Yeesh.
04:09 < winsoff> It's running windows vista, and most of the components are super speedy to react.
04:10 < ziggylazer> Not even the flash is fast under vista
04:11 < winsoff> Pahaha. It's just the experience right after boot--even on a spinning hard disk. Surprising.
04:11 < saaB_> is there any way to run miracast  on linux
04:17 < ziggylazer> aclaivi, I didnt do the inversion of mod by hand
04:18 < aclaivi> ziggylazer: i can imagine
04:18 < ziggylazer> Just wanted to say that;)
04:18 < ziggylazer> You can just prolly script is now.
04:19 < ziggylazer> sagemath or whatever lib I used worked like a charm
04:21 < ziggylazer> Early morning here. Need sleep. Good luck!
04:21 < aclaivi> :P
04:34 < slondr> ok legit question why is Wayland so terrible?
04:34 < slondr> Like I feel like this massive project was designed to you know solve a bunch of problems in the modern linux desktop, but they didn't actually fix any of them and just introduced a bunch of security flaws while breaking useful functionality
04:36 < ioerror88> slondr: See also systemd :(
04:36 < Pentode> well theres this concept called "a work in progress."
04:36 < Pentode> it means it's not finished
04:36 < [R]> except theres nothing wrong with systemd
04:37 < Pentode> and everyone is working for free
04:37 < Pentode> and systemd is a god send
04:37 < slondr> see I get that, but in that case why is there such a push among big distros (like Debian et al) to switch to Wayland already
04:37 < [R]> it wont get better if no one is using it
04:37 < [R]> no one will use it unless dists are shipping it
04:38 < slondr> That's really not true tho
04:38 < [R]> you think random people are going to say "hey, lets compile wayland!"
04:38 < ioerror88> I prefer my old savage ways... As do the piles of scripts I've written to automate my job to the point I work 4 hours a week actually working, the rest dealing with phone calls, and still get 80 hours of work done in 40.. I'm not hating on systemd in particular but an example of the sad direction Linux is heading overall
04:38 < slondr> systemd was more or less feature-complete by the time it was adopted a lot
04:38 < [R]> ioerror88: yeah... progress IS ad
04:38 < rascul> systemd had a big push by red hat to get it there
04:38 < [R]> sad*
04:39 < slondr> ioerror88 systemd supports sysvinit scripts tho
04:39 < rascul> you can start systemd from a sysvinit script
04:39 < [R]> rascul: your mom is a sysvinit script
04:39 < ioerror88> Sure but systemd's dynamic linked, drags dbus and all that crud in... etc etc. For a desktop? Heck yeah its good thing as you'll have dbus, etc anyways.
04:39 < [R]> OH NO
04:39 < [R]> DBUS!?
04:39 < [R]> NOT THAT
04:40 < Pentode> wayland is not some trite piece of simple software. it's pretty complex.
04:40 < rascul> [R] she scripts so hard
04:40 < ioerror88> [R]: I dont mind that stuff, its just a pain when i have 128mb of ram and a few gb of storage...
04:40 < Pentode> and the drawbacks and problems with x are a big pain in the a__
04:40 < ioerror88> It's great on desktops, etc.
04:40 < rascul> pain in the ape?
04:40 < [R]> then you shodul'nt be insgalling a modern desktiop on such an antiquated piece of technology
04:40 < rascul> did you kill harambe?
04:40 < [R]> modern dist*
04:40 < slondr> But I'm seeing this trend in other places too. Like here's some technology that has been developed over the course of decades to the point of perfection, whose only legitimate downside is that there's some legacy systems in it, and then random people show up and make something 3% as functional and the whole community calls them gods
04:40 < Pentode> if you like ape, that works for me. ;)
04:41 < ioerror88> But every single distro dragging the kitchen, laundry room, and gym into the base system is kind of saddening...
04:41 < Pentode> or alf. what a pain in the alf.
04:41 < [R]> ioerror88: if you're unhappy with the current dist selection, then you should make your own
04:41 < rascul> ioerror88 just about everything systemd has replaced was in the base system before systemd
04:42 < [R]> rascul: but its 1 package that provies many functions!
04:42 < [R]> THE HORROR
04:42 < slondr> what's great about systemd is that it means you don't need an external bootloader or network manager
04:42 < ioerror88> rascul: not half the libraries that get drug in. Maybe base X system, but I have no need for X or anything desktop related on either my embedded boards (thing RPi and smaller) nor my VMs
04:42 < rascul> you don't need X for systemd
04:42 < slondr> so now all you need is a kernel, \systemd and a package manager and you've got a fully functional OS
04:42 < ioerror88> I dont hate it but there's a place for it (desktop)
04:42 < rascul> are you even talking about systemd? i'm confused now
04:43 < ioerror88> rascul: Ohh but you do.. At least X libs.. At least if you have a package manager.
04:43 < slondr> this is why Arch, Slackware, and Gentoo are the GOAT distros today
04:43 < slondr> ioerror88 nope x is definitely not installed by default on any distro I use
04:43 < ioerror88> rascul: systemd drags in $randomlib - that lib is linked against a library linked against libX11 or anything of the sort.. and there's a ton of X crud wasting storage on something that doesn't even have a graphics device
04:44 < [R]> ioerror88: like what?
04:44 < slondr> ioerror88: that doesn't actually happen though
04:44 < ioerror88> x server, clients, etc no. But X libs will get drug in by the package manager
04:44 < slondr> systemd doesn't require xlibs
04:44 < rascul> i can't help but notice i have systems with systemd and no X libs or any X stuff
04:44 < slondr> what's ironic is that X requires Wayland libs. but systemd requiring anything from X? nope
04:44 < Pentode> well the package manager is broken
04:44 < [R]> isn't it ironic... don't you think
04:51 < slondr> in fact, I can prove that
04:52 < Psi-Jack> [R]: Isn't that a song?
04:52 < [R]> you're darn right it is
04:52 < Psi-Jack> heh
04:52 < [R]> it's like raiiiiiinnnnn....
04:52 < [R]> on you're wedding day
04:52 < slondr> Here's a graph of all of systemd's dependencies, and their dependencies, etc
04:52 < slondr> https://kek.gg/i/hR4Mj.png
04:52 < Pentode> no no its raaayyyiiieeeeaain
04:52 < slondr> As you can see, nothing related to X
04:52 < [R]> slondr: it pulls in bash... THE HORROR
04:53 < slondr> Tbh the most outlandish thing on this graph is krb5
04:53 < slondr> But I think it's just used to systemd-networkd works
04:54 < [R]> i used to fret over the little things
04:54 < [R]> i had a yuge gentoo overlay to "fix" packages that had hard deps on things they didnt really need
04:55 < Pentode> ..oh now pluto is a giant comet. JUST STOP IT.
04:55  * Pentode clenches fists 
04:55 < slondr> krb5 is a dependency of pluto
04:59 < rascul> wtf systemd requires ncurses? what kind of crap is this?
04:59 < rascul> boycott systemd!
04:59 < Pentode> ncurses? the horror.
05:00 < sacules> i don't get the problem with ncurses lol
05:00 < rascul> it was a joke, i guess i forgot the smiley
05:00 < slondr> h o r r o r
05:00 < Pentode> my commodore could do ncurses like stuff with the push of a key on the keyboard.
05:01 < rascul> i just can't do anything right :(
05:01 < Pentode> no you can't. now go kneel in a box of gravel in the corner for 15 minutes.
05:01 < lyr3> rascul: lmao
05:02 < rascul> i don't have any boxes of gravel
05:02 < jim> grovel in the gravel?
05:03 < Pentode> i like gravy in my gravel
05:21 < ShapeShifter499> hi
05:22 < Pentode> hi
05:22 < ShapeShifter499> https://gitlab.com/cryptsetup/cryptsetup/wikis/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#1-general-questions   I was just reading though this an at number 1.4 it reads "Do not reboot. The keys may still be in the kernel if the device is mapped."        Can someone please explain why rebooting here is a bad idea
05:23 < ShapeShifter499> Does this idea apply if the system is completely frozen and unresponsive (i.e. the only way forward is to hard reboot)
05:28 < dannylee> kkk
05:31 < dannylee> hello nabor
05:32 < ShapeShifter499> hmm
05:35 < dannylee> i wish love was free...my dOG LOVE ME
05:40 < truthadjustr> i bought a refurbished T440 from bestbuy for $316. Near the fingerprint reader, is this a SIM card slot? How do i find out. I have linux installed
05:53 < ayecee> look up the specs for the laptop, i suppose. what's the serial number?
05:53 < ayecee> could simply be an sdcard reader.
05:57 < ayecee> a sim card slot would be more likely to be internal.
05:57 < oerheks> seems so, 3/4G
05:58 < ayecee> no doubt the T440 has that option, but it's rare. more likely just a sdcard reader.
05:58 < oerheks> Ericsson N5321 Mobile Broadband HSPA+ 2 https://www3.lenovo.com/ng/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/T440/p/22TP2TT4400
05:59 < ayecee> yeah, an option. a rare option.
05:59 < ayecee> also has a "4-in-1 card reader (MMC, SD, SDHC, SDXC)"
06:13 < cmj> i have one on a newer laptop. ssd reader and i use microsd adapter for dropping music to the phone
06:13 < ayecee> sdcard readers are pretty common. sim card slots on laptops are rare.
06:15 < cmj> oh weird
06:20 < Happyhobo> Hi folks.  The answer is aluminum cigarette case.
06:20 < ayecee> must have been a silly questio.
06:20 < Happyhobo> The question was what do I mount my two loo
06:20 < ayecee> i don't know what a two loo is
06:21 < Happyhobo> loose antennas in then run the wire from into the innards of the notebook
06:21 < ayecee> ah
06:21 < ayecee> redeemed
06:22 < Happyhobo> I called newegg and I asked for some kind of mounting bracket and they said there isn't one.
06:22 < Happyhobo> He just said get creative.
06:23 < Happyhobo> So I will have a laptop with a cigarette pack with two antennas mounted in it with a micro coaxial hanging from it glued to the lid.
06:23 < Happyhobo> He said the antennas can be three inches apart.
06:30 < Dagmar> "about" three inches apart will do fine
06:34 < Dagmar> Considering that the antennas are generally just a piece of wire with a thick plastic cover, you could probably open them up and embed them in the lid like most laptops already do
06:34 < ld> hello linuxers!!
06:34 < ld> how do i tell what
06:34 < ld> the reason for the previous segfault was
06:34 < aclaivi> You don't
06:34 < aclaivi> :3
06:34 < ayecee> you read the segfault
06:34 < ld> the absolute state of linux computing in 2018
06:34 < ayecee> and then cast various divination spells
06:35 < ld> my computer turns off spontaneously for seemingly no reason
06:35 < ayecee> usually involving a chicken and a new moon
06:35 < ayecee> that doesn't seem like a segfault
06:35 < Dagmar> Sounds like a failing motherboard or power supply
06:35 < Dagmar> Start swapping out hardware with hardware you know works until the problem goes away
06:36 < ld> what are the most commonly affected parts
06:36 < ayecee> the ones inside
06:37 < Happyhobo> Dagmar but they have huge coaxial ends on them and it wouldn't look as cool or redneck
06:37 < ld> thats a very reasonable explanation
06:37 < Dagmar> If they have "
06:37 < Dagmar> "huge coaxial" connectors then they're probably the wrong type of antenna entirely
06:37 < Dagmar> This is *not* some 1990's FM crap where you can just shove a long piece of wire in a hole
06:38 < Dagmar> The unshielded part of the lead (i.e., the actual antenna) has to be a rather precise length, and thickness
06:38 < ayecee> thicc
06:39 < ayecee> for optimum efficiency. if you don't need optimum efficiency, longer is still probably better.
06:39 < Dagmar> Nope
06:39 < Dagmar> Wifi is rather particular
06:39 < Happyhobo> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA72578R4949   See it has the micro mini tiny as a string of snot coaxials that will go into my case to the mini pci-express and two huge connectors to two dildo looking antennas
06:40 < ayecee> it's particular when the antennas are small
06:41 < Dagmar> yeah for that usage you could pretty much by a length of shielded wire with the tiny SMA connector on the end and then strip off 19cm of the shielding (or some divisor of that)
06:41 < Dagmar> ...but at least the plastic keeps them straight and uncrumply
06:42 < Dagmar> I'm kinda surprised the wires weren't already present in the laptop
06:42 < ayecee> a much longer antenna is never a bad thing. an antenna that is only a little bit longer can be a bad thing.
06:43 < Dagmar> Tell that to the FCC.
06:43 < Happyhobo> They're badly damaged and I have two other ends but splicing micro mini thin as a string of snot coaxial cable is impossible.
06:43 < Dagmar> "You can turn down the power on the transmitter, or you can send someone up that tower to cut off the big loop of wire you can see with these binoculars."
06:44 < jack_rip_vim> o/ hey, guys!
06:44 < ayecee> splicing components with different impedences can definitely be a bad thing.
06:44 < Dagmar> The FCC was not amused to find that 15 years of complaints were not entirely unfounded
06:44 < Dagmar> Still, 21.6k ERP was nice while it lasted
06:45 < Dagmar> Not surprisingly, the station opted to turn down the power on the amp
06:45 < Happyhobo> No it's all micro mini thin as a string of snot coaxial cable and has the same impedance separately but the splice will have a different impedance if my thinking is right.
06:45 < Dagmar> Happyhobo: Generally less (which is fine) so long as you're not _really_ bad at soldering
06:46 < Dagmar> I've sent up bandles of balloons with that thin-as-snot wire attached before
06:46 < Dagmar> er bundles
06:46 < Dagmar> I was GOING to get that bloody portal, hill or no hill
06:47 < Dagmar> Thank goodness most cell phones have the tiny connector just stickered over
06:47 < Happyhobo> https://www.smokersoutletonline.com/accessories/cigarette-cases/smokers-outlet-aluminum-flip-top-cigarette-case-king-size.html
06:48 < Happyhobo> use the backside to mount it.
06:48 < Dagmar> Not bad.
06:48 < Dagmar> I'd have considered an Altoids tin, myself
06:49 < Happyhobo> https://www.smokersoutletonline.com/accessories/cigarette-cases/fujima-plastic-cigarette-case-100mm.html   or this one
06:50 < Happyhobo> I'm kinda partial to the red.  I figure it's the most redneck of the bunch.
06:51 < Dagmar> If you really want it to be _redneck_ you need to go to the nearest smoke shop or vapist store and ask them about their chewing tobacco tins
06:51 < sir_guy_carleton> hello
06:52 < jack_rip_vim> any tools for creating a linux distro for NXP I.MX 6Q processor?
06:52 < Dagmar> One fresh pink brain
06:53 < sir_guy_carleton> are there any programs that let me look at font as see what glyths are a given codepoint?
06:53 < Dagmar> ...and possibly Raspbian.
06:53 < ayecee> at midnight on a full moon
06:53 < Dagmar> sir_guy_carleton: Fontographer
06:53 < Dagmar> ...or FontForge (had to dig around for the name)
06:54 < jack_rip_vim> no, it is board that I desgin for myself
06:54 < Dagmar> I'm not saying _either_ of them are pretty, but they'll let you look inside a TTF file just fine
06:54 < Dagmar> jack_rip_vim: Assuming you can work out how to bootstrap it, Raspbian would be a good place to start because it's already ARM
06:54 < Happyhobo> I considered an altoid tin case but that's just gay.
06:55 < jack_rip_vim> I need a tool for customing a a distro for myslef
06:55 < Happyhobo> brb must reboot
06:55 < jack_rip_vim> Dagmar: yes, I can write a bootstrap.
06:55 < Dagmar> Then start with Raspbian
06:56 < Dagmar> You *might* have to recompile the kernel for that specific CPU
06:56 < Dagmar> You'll probably want to anyway, but it might not be necessary for the first boot
06:57 < jack_rip_vim> Dagmar: I just can finish reading the 5K+ pages of doc. NXP's doc is....
06:57 < Dagmar> That you can probably skip.  Probably...
06:57 < Dagmar> If you have to read all that then you're going to have to make serious modifications to the assembly invoked for the compiler
06:58 < Dagmar> THis is not for casuals.
06:59 < jack_rip_vim> Dagmar: OK, I think I need to find a small kernel. then moving the kernel to my board.
06:59 < Dagmar> This will give you a sad http://www.eenewseurope.com/news/arm-cortex-a9-based-udoo-neo-hands-embedded-linux
07:00 < jack_rip_vim> let me see.
07:00 < Dagmar> Assuming you're a student of some stripe, you might be able to find a bootable/deployable image to start with from that bread crumb (for free)
07:03 < jack_rip_vim> Dagmar: I think, I can't get a free image. maybe I should follow the linux from scratch manual with U-boot to create my own distro.
07:04 < Happyhobo> lsblk is awesome
07:04 < Happyhobo> I don't have to use gparted to find my device designation.
07:04 < Zephranoid> Happyhobo: Yes it is
07:04 < Dagmar> jack_rip_vim: LFS is not a bad idea, just so you'll have a better idea about how cross-compilers work
07:04 < Dagmar> You probably *won't* want to be compiling the kernels *on* the device itself
07:05 < Dagmar> ...let alone glibc or any libc
07:05 < jack_rip_vim> Dagmar: Yeah, I think I will compile it on my computer, then moving it to the driver
07:05  * Happyhobo dares them to pry his Antergos from his cold, dead hands.
07:06 < kurahaupo> Happyhobo: your proposal is acceptable
07:06 < Happyhobo> lol
07:07 < jack_rip_vim> Happyhobo: where are you ? it sounds like you are in some crazy cold area.
07:07 < Happyhobo> LOL  I mean if I should die
07:07 < jack_rip_vim> Happyhobo: lol
07:08 < jack_rip_vim> Happyhobo: no, I think you don't need
07:08 < Happyhobo> I don't know why I thought I'd be happy with Peppermint and even changing the repos from xenial to bionic I hated it.
07:09 < sauvin> Hrm... "bleeding edge". Not for n00bs.
07:10 < jack_rip_vim> Happyhobo: whatever, just make a better choice for yourself.
07:12 < Happyhobo> I miss the arch support with Antergos and I know very little cli like package management like I do with deb systems but I love it.  It's faster, smoother, better themed, great gui management, less dependency issues, less complicated meta packages, just better jack_rip_vim
07:13 < sauvin> Happyhobo, report back in... say... six months to a year, see if you can still say that.
07:13 < jack_rip_vim> Happyhobo: :-)
07:13 < Psi-Jack> Heh.
07:14 < Happyhobo> I have this wonderful community and I love to learn.
07:14 < Psi-Jack> It's definitely not faster, nor smoother, and well, the rest are just even deeper opinions.
07:15 < sauvin> Opinions about. I happen to believe Debian is the king of the heap, but this, too, is an *opinion* and a preference.
07:15 < sauvin> erm... s/abount/abound/;
07:15 < sauvin> My fingers are like the rest of me: aging rapidly. :\
07:15 < jack_rip_vim> :P
07:15 < Happyhobo> Compared to ChaletOS, Ubuntu 17.10, Manjaro and Mint it is smoother and faster
07:17  * jack_rip_vim is hoping no all the distro giving up i386 distro. his old computer needs it.
07:17  * sauvin lols at Sabayon: "System upgrades in progress. Now go make some coffee."
07:18 < sir_guy_carleton> Dagmar: thanks, it got what i needed done.
07:19 < jim> jack_rip_vim, for example, debian has archive.debian.org
07:19 < jim> you can still get old versions of debian. and old package mirrors
07:20 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Don't forget the hacksaw, ball and chain, and other accessories that might be needed after you come back to yet another broken upgrade. :)
07:20 < Happyhobo> cp /dev/sdc /home/shane/  didn't copy the thumbdrive into the directory it made some file called sdc that took forever to write but had nothing in it.  WTF
07:20 < jack_rip_vim> jim,yeah, but i saw more and more distro giving up update on i386 platform
07:21 < jim> jack_rip_vim, yeah, generally speaking, they don't have the disk space on the mirrors
07:22 < Happyhobo> I don't want to use nautilus I want to just one cli and bam the bitch is copied, what gives?
07:22 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, it's in a VM because I wanted to see for myself just how these things work. If it goes BOOM, it goes BYEBYE.
07:22 < jack_rip_vim> jim, just hope there are still a distro no giving up. or i have to move to BSD
07:23 < sauvin> Happyhobo, don't use cp, use dd and see what it does.
07:23 < nekoseam> https://web.obarun.org/ Obarun is an arch-based Linux distro with s6 as the default init system
07:23 < sanroot> is miracast  possible via linux
07:24 < Happyhobo> dd is to burn an iso on to a thumbdrive and it formats as it does it, I am not formatting my home directory and have it just be the contents of a thumb drive.
07:25 < nekoseam> It appears to be the only Linux distro shipping s6 by default
07:30 < Happyhobo> jim what is the cp command I need
07:30 < Happyhobo> Hi sauvin try this cli rm -rf ***.***
07:31 < sauvin> Happyhobo, dd doesn't format anything, it just copies bytes.
07:31 < qlaro> Happyhobo everything in linux is a file. /dev/sdc is a file. If you want to copy the contents of the file system on sdc to some other location, you'll need to mount it first. Then, cp out of the mount point.
07:32 < sauvin> Oh, and btw, Happyhobo, you try to destroy people's home directories again by suggesting a destructive command, you're outta here.
07:32 < Happyhobo> How do I find the mountpoint?\\
07:33 < sauvin> You don't. You *decide* on one.
07:34 < qlaro> mkdir /mnt/mydrive; mount /dev/sdc /mnt/mydrive; mkdir ~/mydrivecopy; cp -R /mnt/mydrive ~/mydrivecopy
07:34 < qlaro> The first two require root
07:34 < Happyhobo> That's more complicated than I thought.
07:35 < sauvin> It's not complicated at all once you understand the underlying structures and principles.
07:35 < Happyhobo> Sorry sauvin
07:35 < qlaro> Make a place to mount the drive. Mount it. Make a place to put your copy. Copy it.
07:36 < sauvin> I think maybe mc (midnight commander) can automount and copy from it.
07:36 < Happyhobo> once I learn that it could come in handy, using a file manager seems to be easier but it takes more time it seems.
07:36 < Happyhobo> mc as in the cli console file manager?
07:37 < sauvin> Yup. Very fast.
07:37 < nekoseam> ranger is better imo
07:37 < sauvin> I'm a CLI junkie myself, I'll compose LONG lines of cryptic crap, but mc lets me see what I'm doing before I do something boneheaded.
07:38 < Happyhobo> Never could get used to it, the latest iteration of Nautilus is quite nice because you can grab a file and float it over the address bar at the top or one of the ones on the side and hover and it will open it
07:38 < Happyhobo> someone told me that command when I first started I think I might have done it.
07:39 < theraspberry> does anyone run btrfs on an SSD? I've had a few situations where my desktop workstation has gone over 20+ load just on I/O wait and I have a feeling its with the snapshots but I don't understand why it causes so much load even on an SSD.
07:39 < Tech_8> hi
07:39 < Happyhobo> dd from a back on to a it literally eats itself.  I know that because I did it one night half asleep.
07:41 < qlaro> Happyhobo to go back to a question you had about finding a mount point. Assuming that a drive is already mounted and you just need to find where, you can use mount with no arguments.
07:41 < qlaro> And then grep the output with something like grep /dev/sd
07:42 < sauvin> for a in $(ls /dev/sd | grep -v sda); do pmount $a; done
07:42 < sauvin> Ewps.
07:43 < qlaro> Shut up, junkie.
07:43 < sauvin> Keep it civil.
07:44 < aclaivi> Draw swords, fight to the death.
07:44 < qlaro> My sword is made out of foam and tape. It'll take a long time.
07:45 < Happyhobo> See I know about the debian apt stuff, and a few other commands using all of the .debs I worked with.  I know none of the package stuff with Antergos so my knowledge I have is useless.  I feel like I'm bringing a pen knife to tech 9 gunfight.
07:45 < sauvin> Oh, a Nerf sword? That's a wonderful idea, gots a few people at work I'd love to work over.
07:45 < qlaro> They must be awful if they deserve such slow deaths.
07:45 < Happyhobo> DD is the data destroyer
07:46 < Dagmar> But you get to *enjoy* it longer
07:46 < sauvin> Happyhobo, the knowledge you gained from using apt and suchlike is not worthless if it gave you some idea of how package management is structured.
07:46 < sauvin> And dd is NOT a data destroyer. I use it often.
07:46 < Dagmar> I use it to destroy data, explicitly
07:47 < sauvin> Like most tools, you just have to understand it well enough to decide responsibly when to use it (and how), and when not to.
07:47 < nekoseam> https://i.imgur.com/fxVQGoE.png
07:48 < energizer> i accidentally removed myself from sudo group. i'm the only user. now what?
07:48 < Dagmar> lol
07:49 < Dagmar> Boot into single-user mode
07:49 < energizer> its a vps
07:49 < Juesto> energizer: you can still boot to single
07:50 < Juesto> or look in the control panel for the root password if available
07:50 < sauvin> Does your VPS have some kind of web console?
07:50 < energizer> ah good idea
07:50 < Happyhobo> being single isn't much fun, at one time there was an image viewer called pornview, in the blurb on synaptic on Debian it promises hands free slideshow viewing.
07:50 < Happyhobo> promised*
07:50 < Juesto> lol
07:51 < Dagmar> Some devs don't do "subtle"
07:51 < Happyhobo> been funny if when it was on slide show if every 5 minutes it flashed on the screen and said handcheck
07:52 < sauvin> Or even arranged to emit UV light on your keyboard. :>
07:52 < Happyhobo> rofl
07:54 < Happyhobo> There is also gwenview but I don't know any gwens
07:56 < sauvin> Well, see, lots of those girls have real names like "gwendolyn" or "daphne" or "hildegard", but they won't admit that, which is where you get all these "jennies" and "suzies" and "cindies".
07:58 < sauvin> Jeebus, Sabayon sure takes a LONG LONG LONG time to "update" a measly 350 packages.
08:01 < energizer> back in business, thanks
08:04 < hehehe> recvmsg(4, {msg_namelen=0}, 0)          = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable)
08:04 < hehehe> evolution bug or something
08:04 < hehehe> wont connect to some imap accounts
08:04 < hehehe> how to solve it?
08:08 < zergut> hello, i've stopped apache2 but it still hanging in process how to shut it down properly?
08:08 < zergut> it is still hanging in processes
08:08 < hehehe> is keeppass better than keeppassx?
08:10 < Happyhobo> night folks the sheets are calling me
08:11 < zergut> sheets?
08:11 < zergut> gn
08:14 < Skaface82> hi, im trying to hunt down some software to suit my needs, is this the channel to ask for advice?
08:14 < teodorg> zergut: killall -9 httpd (if that is the name of your http process)
08:15 < zergut> teodorg: its apache2 or i dont understand something?
08:15 < teodorg> zergut: if you are on zsh (not bash) there is an easier way to do it.
08:15 < allorder> killall apache2
08:15 < teodorg> zergut: ps -aux | grep httpd
08:15 < zergut> empty output
08:15 < teodorg> allorder: and who guarantees you that the process name is apache2 ?
08:16 < zergut> allorder teodorg thank you guys
08:16 < teodorg> zergut: ps -aux | grep apache
08:16 < allorder> teodorg: my little finger
08:16 < zergut> dang it is still alive
08:16 < zergut> zergut   19339  0.0  0.0   5924   836 pts/15   S+   10:16   0:00 grep --color=auto apache
08:16 < teodorg> zergut: netstat -anp | grep 80
08:17 < teodorg> zergut: what does the output of this command show ?
08:17 < zergut> a lot of processes but i dont see apache word in here
08:17 < jack_rip_vim> httpd?
08:18 < jack_rip_vim> apache2?
08:18 < teodorg> zergut: netstat -anp | grep 80 | grep LISTEN
08:18 < teodorg> paste the output of this command
08:19 < jack_rip_vim> systemctl stop apache
08:19 < jack_rip_vim> this command will kill apache
08:20 < teodorg> jack_rabbit: if his distro is on systemctl ;)
08:20 < jack_rip_vim> service apache stop
08:20 < pingfloyd> you're on systemctl
08:20 < zergut> https://hastebin.com/ovosomozax.nginx
08:20 < jack_rip_vim> or systemd
08:21 < zergut> https://hastebin.com/qawutujuqu.rb
08:21 < pingfloyd> systemctl is systemd
08:21 < teodorg> zergut: так у тебя Убунту стоит.
08:21 < zergut> fuf
08:21 < zergut> fuf
08:21 < zergut> да
08:21 < sauvin> Let's keep it in English, please.
08:21 < jack_rip_vim> pingfloyd: yeah, but some of distro didn't have systemctl command
08:21 < jack_rip_vim> zergut: lol
08:22 < zergut> what? :)
08:22  * iflema trojand
08:22 < teodorg> zergut: ну, так не работает у тебя веб.
08:22 < sauvin> Let's keep it in English, please.
08:22 < teodorg> zergut: you do not have a web server running, as you see. No process listens on port 80
08:22 < jack_rip_vim> sauvin: it is OK, maybe they can help each other :P
08:22 < zergut> and how to make it completely shutted down?
08:22 < zergut> oh, okay
08:22 < zergut> thank you
08:23 < teodorg> zergut: it is down. Could not be more down :)
08:23 < zergut> :)
08:23 < zergut> i was trying to kill it since February, i guess
08:23 < zergut> Apache is sort of tenacious creature.
08:24 < teodorg> zergut: not at all.
08:24 < pingfloyd> stopping the service and disabling it are two different things
08:24 < zergut> im bad killer
08:25 < jack_rip_vim> killall apache
08:25 < zergut> pingfloyd: aha! and how to disable it?
08:25 < pingfloyd> better to terminate by pid
08:25 < pingfloyd> zergut: that's going to depend on your init
08:25 < teodorg> jack_rip_vim: give it a break, mate. It is down already. Not to mention that it is not quite sure if he is running other sort of web server, like lighttpd or httpd or nginx
08:26 < zergut> no,no i think it is the only one
08:26 < Corson> @sauvin I like how you only contribute in order to try and dictate "rules".
08:26 < teodorg> zergut: lets start with that - what is your issue with the httpd? You want to disable it competely or to restart it (why) ?
08:26 < jack_rip_vim> teodorg: I think he can browser localhost:80 to see which server take up it
08:27 < pingfloyd> zergut: dist at what version are you running?
08:27 < teodorg> jack_rip_vim: not a must.
08:27 < zergut> teodorg: yeah, i think disabling will be fine, i was experimenting with some web engines and i dont need it anymore for now
08:27 < sauvin> With an account only ten minutes old. Hm.
08:27 < Corson> So?
08:27 < Corson> pmsl
08:27 < sauvin> What's "pmsl"?
08:28 < jack_rip_vim> teodorg: simple test to figure out which webserver.
08:28 < jack_rip_vim> the error message will show out the server
08:29 < teodorg> jack_rip_vim: better to use netstat, ss, lsof :)
08:29 < jack_rip_vim> like something 404 Error /Apache2 Vxx
08:30 < pingfloyd> zergut: what dist are you running?
08:30 < jack_rip_vim> teodorg: maybe no a webserver take up the port
08:30 < jack_rip_vim> pingfloyd: I think it is Ubuntu
08:30 < pingfloyd> let's not guess
08:30 < zergut> Correct, Ubuntu 14.04
08:31 < pingfloyd> let's find out exactly what he is running, so we can give some commands and get through this.
08:31 < pingfloyd> does 14.04 use systemd?
08:31 < [R]> no
08:31 < [R]> its old as balls
08:31 < pingfloyd> it uses upstart and sysv?
08:31 < jack_rip_vim> service command
08:31 < [R]> yeah
08:31 < eahm> 12.10 doesnt
08:32 < jack_rip_vim> apt can install systemd, if want
08:33 < sauvin> Think I'd rather keep systemd away from 14.04 just for the sake of being a crusty old purist.
08:33 < pingfloyd> what does service apache2 status show?
08:33 < pingfloyd> (it's apache you're trying to disable right?)
08:33 < zergut> no, im just a lazy guy with a low performance throttling laptop
08:34 < pingfloyd> zergut: you're on the old version because of low-end hardware?
08:34 < pingfloyd> zergut: you could run a newer version.  You'd want to use a lighter DE if that's the case though.
08:34 < zergut>  * apache2 is not running
08:35 < zergut> its Celeron N2810, i think even lighter DE will not help
08:36 < jack_rip_vim> zergut: how many RAM do you have?
08:36 < pingfloyd> zergut: is there a reason you can't just purge the packages instead of messing with this?
08:36 < pingfloyd> like if you don't plan to use apache, I'd just remove all of its packages
08:37 < allorder> zergut: what is your DE
08:37 < zergut> jack_rip_vim: 2GB
08:37 < zergut> allorder: i think its Unity
08:37 < pingfloyd> zergut: another option is to not run a DE at all, but instead a WM and whatever other bling you want
08:38 < allorder> zergut: try lxde or xfce
08:38 < jack_rip_vim> zergut: I think you can install the new ubuntu
08:38 < pingfloyd> a good very light standalone WM is icewm
08:38 < zergut> okay, at first i have to look up differencies betweeen WM and DE ;)
08:38 < pingfloyd> WM is the window manager
08:39 < jack_rip_vim> windows manager and Desktop Environment
08:39 < pingfloyd> a DE is a desktop environment which is really a suite of software such as a WM, panel, some daemons and so on
08:39 < zergut> yes, i know what it stands for but i dont know deep differencies
08:39 < horseface> in privoxy for the environment variables i set http_proxy to http://127.0.0.1:8118 but for the https_proxy do i put http:// or https://127.0.0.1:8118?
08:39 < jack_rip_vim> actually, xorg has its own windows manager
08:39 < pingfloyd> zergut: you could think of a WM as a subset of DE
08:40 < pingfloyd> zergut: a DE will usually include a WM, file manager, and other stuff.
08:40 < pingfloyd> on a low end system you really want to remove any daemons you don't need
08:42 < zergut> and what about web browser?
08:42 < ziggylazer> aclaivi,
08:42 < zergut> is there specific web browser for low end hardsware?
08:42 < ziggylazer> U sleeping?
08:42 < zergut> hardware*
08:42 < ziggylazer> Or did u get it?
08:42 < jack_rip_vim> lynx
08:42 < jack_rip_vim> text browser
08:42 < zergut> too low
08:43 < zergut> yeah, i have used it a cople of times
08:43 < zergut> couple*
08:44 < jack_rip_vim> for a little bit higher, i don't know
08:44 < Aph3x-WL> qutebrowser
08:45 < prmsrswt> +1 to qutebrowser
08:45 < hendrix> midori is another
08:45 < jack_rip_vim> i guess I need to have a try with it
08:45 < pingfloyd> if you want super light, there's dillo
08:45 < pingfloyd> and links2
08:46 < ziggylazer> When did they patch 445=
08:46 < pingfloyd> the performance is going to come down to what programs you have installed and use.
08:46 < ziggylazer> Etarnal blue was it not?
08:46 < jim> ziggylazer, (reminder) please spell out u as you, it helps people (particularly new english speakers) to understand, at least, most of what's going on
08:47 < ziggylazer> Sure thing
08:47 < jim> thanks
08:47 < teodorg> troubleshooting linux for food
08:47 < pingfloyd> pcmanfm is a a pretty decent low resource file mangler
08:48 < ziggylazer> Left a nmap running during the night. A staggering amount of the 10k I scanned still has that port open
08:48 < ziggylazer> No wonder people become criminals...
08:49 < jack_rip_vim> ziggylazer: you can use iptable to close the port if you didn't want to open it
08:49 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: which port?
08:49 < ziggylazer> 445
08:49 < pingfloyd> what's listening on it?
08:49 < ziggylazer> smbv1 right?
08:50 < pingfloyd> do you use that daemon?
08:50 < ziggylazer> No just scanned the ports to do a survey
08:50 < prmsrswt> Isn't EternaBlue the vuln used to exploit smb
08:51 < jack_rip_vim> I remember it works more easily on windows system
08:51 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: try ss -tunapl | grep ':445' to find out what proc is listening there
08:52 < pingfloyd> may have to run with root privs to see all processes
08:52 < ziggylazer> Ok thanks!
08:52 < prmsrswt> The public exploit for EternaBlue is only for win 7 and win xp and some old version of windows server
08:53 < pingfloyd> usually you shouldn't be having smb listening on your pipe
08:53 < ziggylazer> But why do I find so many then?
08:53 < pingfloyd> i.e., don't setup your router/firewall to forward the port
08:53 < ziggylazer> I dont use it
08:53 < ziggylazer> I just did a survey
08:54 < jack_rip_vim> window server under 2014 seem have the bug
08:55 < ziggylazer> Is there any legal issues with just scanning as you guys know of?
08:55 < pingfloyd> that will get you into "pound me in the ass prison"
08:55 < ziggylazer> Just for scanning?
08:56 < prmsrswt> nmap scanning as far as i know have no legal issues as the open ports are already public
08:56 < jack_rip_vim> ziggylazer: no, but I do security researching
08:56 < teodorg> the entire world is scanning.
08:57 < ziggylazer> So If I had a consulting firm. Then I would scan every range for every known issue all the time
08:57 < teodorg> no doubt scanning most usually is not legal, but if people were to stay in prison for it, we would have an entire city like Dublin full of imprisoned scanners.
08:57 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: I was being facetious
08:57 < teodorg> just no one pays attention to scanning
08:57 < ziggylazer> ;)
08:57 < ziggylazer> pingfloyd,  I understand
08:57 < pingfloyd> doesn't matter if you scan, matters if you try to break in
08:57 < teodorg> it is hard to trace, find the person behind this story and bring him to court with solid evidences.
08:58 < pingfloyd> where you get in troubles is "unauthorized access to private data"
08:58 < ziggylazer> Evven if they trace and some one just want to lend a hand.
08:58 < teodorg> pingfloyd: some scans actually do not scan for open ports, but scan for vulnerabilities and try to exploit them at the same time.
08:58 < pingfloyd> that has some interesting ramifications too
08:58 < ziggylazer> Yeah. Lets stay away from that
08:58 < pingfloyd> teodorg: those aren't nmap
08:59 < pingfloyd> teodorg: those are actual exploits
08:59 < teodorg> pingfloyd: true
08:59 < jack_rip_vim> hey, I just want to say, I have been telling some websites to upgrade their system, but I didn't see they did it.
08:59 < pingfloyd> nmap and nc are very handy tools for admins
08:59 < ziggylazer> pingfloyd, huh?
08:59 < ziggylazer> Why?
09:00 < ziggylazer> oh
09:00 < prmsrswt> nc is called the swiss army knife of networking
09:00 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: they are how you answer questions for yourself about poorly documented networks
09:00 < ziggylazer> Missread
09:00 < teodorg> pingfloyd: so are netstat, ss, lsof, iptables and so on.
09:00 < ziggylazer> Tought you ment they were bad for admins
09:00 < jack_rip_vim> it likes, for some fast developing company, they didn't care about their web server security
09:01 < ziggylazer> jack_rip_vim, and all thier worth on those machines?
09:02 < ziggylazer> Neveer been more easy to go over to the dark side
09:02 < jack_rip_vim> their worker's personal info
09:02 < teodorg> ziggylazer: ever been there to say how easy it is ?
09:02 < jack_rip_vim> ziggylazer: at least, I give them the suggestions, but they never care about what I said
09:02 < ziggylazer> teodorg, never ever
09:03 < teodorg> ziggylazer: it is always easy to go onto the dark side. Hard to get out of it, though.
09:03 < ziggylazer> But, in theory
09:03 < ziggylazer> A few years back when clouds came big
09:03 < teodorg> I have been sued twice for such things, yet stayed in prison for bloody 6 months...
09:04 < ziggylazer> And Access to spaces to run code from was easy to come by.
09:04 < ziggylazer> That could have been used to mine some crypto
09:04 < teodorg> jack_rip_vim: this is senseless. People/companies either care for their own security without being told so, or... someone else does :)
09:04 < ziggylazer> Infact it might still be
09:05 < horseface> i am confused though, it says on the privoxy site to "Set your browser to use Privoxy as HTTP and HTTPS (SSL) proxy by setting the proxy configuration for address of 127.0.0.1 and port 8118."
09:05 < jack_rip_vim> teodorg: ziggylazer: we can choose to be a good guys. no always use those tools to do the bad things
09:05 < horseface> does this mean that the https_proxy env variable should be http://127.etc or https://127.etc?
09:05 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: there's a difference between security policy on the private network and the outside, usually
09:05 < ziggylazer> jack_rip_vim, truth to be told.. I didnt get involved
09:05 < TR1950X> Sysinfo for 'TR1950X': Running inside KDE Plasma 5.12.4 on KDE neon 5.12 powered by Linux 4.15.18-041518-generic, CPU: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X 16-Core Processor at 1856-2620/3400 MHz, RAM: 7250/32107 MB, Storage: 483/890 GB, 463 procs, 0.14h up, GPU: AMD Vega Frontier Edition 16GB, Nvidia GTX 1060 3GB, Nvidia GTX 1060 3GB
09:05 < pingfloyd> you can be looser with security on the private work network, because people sign papers
09:06 < pingfloyd> and everyone knows where to find them
09:06 < jack_rip_vim> Doing the right things, this is what we can choose.
09:06 < teodorg> jack_rip_vim: you know better :) I won't argue with you on that.
09:06 < ziggylazer> jack_rip_vim, thats too big of a question for this channel within the framing of this discussion
09:07 < jack_rip_vim> teodorg: ziggylazer: OK, let's pass over it. back to linux topic
09:07 < ziggylazer> ;)
09:08 < jack_rip_vim> TR1950X: ?
09:08 < jack_rip_vim> TR1950X: any problems with KDE?
09:18 < sauvin> TR1950X, you were asked a question. Answer it.
09:19 < jack_rip_vim> sauvin: I think it may be no infront of computer now
09:19 < fr0xk> I am having hard time with monospace font "DejaVu Mono Book"
09:19 < sauvin> jack_rip_vim, yes, and if that was automated, it needs to be discouraged.
09:19 < fr0xk> Inconsolata looks very thin
09:19 < fr0xk> what else u recommend?
09:20 < sauvin> fr0xk, "you", not "u".
09:20 < fr0xk> sauvin: yeah, whatever
09:20 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: maybe you want to try other font?
09:21 < leibniz> ap
09:21 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: Yeah, I tried source code pro too
09:22 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: so?
09:22 < jack_rip_vim> didn't like it?
09:22 < fr0xk> I dont like that either, I need some better suggestions
09:22 < fr0xk> I use solarize dark background
09:23 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: how about roma?
09:23 < fr0xk> roma? never heard of it
09:24 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: roma font
09:24 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: That's not open source font
09:24 < fr0xk> non free
09:24 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: Liberation Serif
09:25 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: maybe you like serif
09:25 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: Tried that, very straight, I like ubuntu monoish, or monaco like design
09:26 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: Noto sans
09:26 < pingfloyd> dejavu sans mono is about the best one of the free
09:27 < fr0xk> NNoto design is very stright, I prefer fonts like this http://www.identifont.com/show?1O2
09:28 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: Noto design is very stright, I prefer fonts like this
09:28 < fr0xk> Noto design is very stright, I prefer fonts like this
09:28 < fr0xk>  http://www.identifont.com/show?1O2
09:28 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: I got it
09:28 < fr0xk> oh, My bad, soory
09:29 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: Monaco
09:29 < pingfloyd> that was monaco he showed
09:29 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: but it is mac os
09:30 < dka> hi
09:30 < dka> I have an issue with my debian
09:30 < dka> I wanted to install wine and typed this
09:31 < pingfloyd> mac uses non-free fonts
09:31 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk Publisher: Apple; it is a standard MacOS system font
09:31 < dka>  dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update && apt-get install wine32 libwine:i386 libglu1-mesa:i386 libldap-2.4-2:i386  libpulse0:i386  libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 libdbus-1-3:i386 libsystemd0:i386  libdrm2:i386 libgl1-mesa-dri:i386
09:31 < jack_rip_vim> dka, so ?
09:31 < dka> I got an alert asking me to delete the linux-image-4.14.0-.0 and telling me that I should say no so I sayd no, and now I have
09:31 < dka> Errors were encountered while processing:
09:31 < dka>  linux-image-4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64
09:31 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: Yeah, it is. I don't want that font, I want fonts that look like that
09:32 < pingfloyd> dka: you should just show the real output
09:32 < fr0xk> One font that looks like that is 'Ubuntu Mono", but my HiDPI screen is helpless there
09:32 < dka> My GUI toolbar as disappear, all my windo have no more toolbar and my desktop icon are not valid anymore
09:33 < dka> I cant past it
09:33 < dka> I cant open chrome
09:33 < pingfloyd> sounds like you broke it
09:33 < dka> I got nothing
09:33 < dka> How can I past
09:33 < dka> from command line?
09:33 < dka> I only have sublim, terminal and hexchat open
09:33 < dka> =?S
09:33 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: check it, very similar, but no longer maintained https://fonts.google.com/specimen/Ubuntu+Mono
09:34 < pingfloyd> try using termbin if you have nc installed
09:34 < dka> how?
09:34 < dka> can you show me
09:34 < pingfloyd> you pipe the output with | nc termbin.com 9999
09:35 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: hmm, maybe you should give up it
09:35 < pingfloyd> try sudo apt-get install -f | | nc termbin.com 9999
09:35 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: I don't use that, I am looking for a new one
09:35 < fr0xk> too bad, I couldn't able to fins one
09:36 < dka> http://termbin.com/x0m0
09:36 < fr0xk> find*
09:36 < dka> please help me =?
09:37 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: actually, I choose centry school book font often, when I type words on libreoffice.
09:37 < pingfloyd> dka: you should have said no there
09:38 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: Oh, it that sense, I prefer Roboto or Liberation Sans, it gets the job done
09:38 < fr0xk> But monospace is very thinny
09:38 < dka> he asked me to say yes
09:38 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: you can zoom it, right?
09:38 < fr0xk> sometimes thin, sometimes very straight, I don't like the design
09:38 < pingfloyd> it's so messed up it's wanting to remove required packages
09:38 < dka> pingfloyd, how could I know? pokerstars told me to install whine
09:38 < pingfloyd> as a resolution to the snafu
09:38 < dka> Now can I get it back?
09:39 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: Yeah, but emacs renders fonts in a different way, so needs lots of tweaks...
09:39 < dka> sudo apt-get install linux-image-4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 ?
09:40 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: I mean a font look cool in 16px, another is very thin, one is too bold... mess
09:40 < pingfloyd> dka: try running apt-get install -f
09:40 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: Nimbus mono
09:40 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: try this one
09:41 < vyrus001> fc-list  | grep edges => /usr/share/fonts/artwiz-aleczapka-en/edges.pcf: artwiz edges:style=Regular; urxvt -fn "artwiz edges:style=Regular" => urxvt: unable to load base fontset, please specify a valid one using -fn, aborting.
09:41 < vyrus001> ??? help?
09:41 < dka> I did, it offered me to delete tons of things and install a few
09:41 < dka> I did install
09:41 < dka> then what to do :'(
09:41 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: Nimbus Mono is very thin, needs to setup bold, which is way bold
09:42 < fr0xk> DejaVu Sans Mono == Nimbus Mono Mode == Source Code Pro SemiBold
09:42 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: yeah
09:42 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: Can I see ur monospace font rendering?
09:43 < prmsrswt> vyrus001, dont use style=Regular
09:43 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: I am in MATE DE, so, the text render fine
09:43 < dka> pingfloyd, should I reboot ?
09:43 < dka> =/
09:43 < vyrus001> prmsrswt: same err
09:43 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: Try with solarized dark, it will look very thin
09:44 < fr0xk> and weak
09:44 < pingfloyd> dka: you might try #debian
09:45 < jack_rip_vim> fr0xk: Oh, right, I think it is the font shadow, it is gone with dark
09:45 < fr0xk> jack_rip_vim: Hahaha
09:46 < prmsrswt> vyrus001 oh it would be "xft:artwiz edges:size=12"
09:47 < prmsrswt> You have append xft: before font name in urxvt as it uses xft to render ttf fonts
09:47 < vyrus001> same err
09:48 < prmsrswt> Then try to configure the font in .Xresources
09:49 < dka> I cant install cinnamon
09:49 < dka>  libpam-systemd : Depends: systemd (= 232-25+deb9u3)
09:49 < dka> but then i can't install systemd
09:49 < prmsrswt> I have the following line in .Xresources URxvt.font: xft:Hack:size=10, xft:Font Awesome 5 Free Solid:size=10
09:49 < pingfloyd> dka: I think you're pretty much screwed
09:50 < pingfloyd> reinstall time
09:50 < dka> I can't
09:50 < pingfloyd> whatever you did, you fixed it real good
09:50 < dka> I need to backup all of my mates data
09:50 < dka> I need to get cinnamon back at least
09:51 < pingfloyd> I think your mate will leave you after this
09:51 < prmsrswt> vyrus001, after putting the above line in  .Xresources(change the font name) reload it using xrdb ~/.Xresources
09:51 < pingfloyd> "blowed up real good!"
10:04 < autopsy> Whats the name of the CPU frequency scaling governers modules in Linux 4.10.9?
10:04 < autopsy> I need to modprobe them to use that governer.
10:06 < pingfloyd> you're the governor
10:10 < sauvin> autopsy, I'm wanting to say something like 'cpufreq'
10:14 < pingfloyd> which governor are you trying to use?
10:35 < dka> Hi
10:35 < dka> How can I solve this error when starting my desktop :
10:35 < dka> cinnamon
10:35 < dka> Failed to connect to session bus: Failed to execute child process "dbus-launch"
10:36 < sauvin> dka, what distro?
10:36 < dka> Debian stretch
10:36 < dka> I miss package that are important after a bad command
10:36 < dka> I am trying to get my desktop back
10:37 < sauvin> What was the bad command?
10:37 < dka> I don't know how I can solve this, nor I can't googl ebecauuse I have no more google chrome and desktop
10:37 < dka> http://termbin.com/x0m0
10:38 < sauvin> o.O
10:38 < sauvin> Why an i386 version!?
10:38 < dka> Please don't ask why
10:38 < dka> Can I get this back on feet with your help?
10:39 < sauvin> With my help, no. I ran into something similar once and couldn't figure out a better way than to just re-install. In my case, it was having a 32-bit kernel with a 64-bit userland, and I have NO idea how that happened.
10:40 < sauvin> I think that might be what you're running into: mixed library bit-ness.
10:40 < sauvin> i386, you see, is 32-bit.
10:41 < dka> how can I disable 32-bit
10:42 < sauvin> That might be a question for the Debian boys in #debian.
10:44 < sauvin> dka, is a system re-install out of the question?
10:48 < hexnewbie> dka: Well, if you disable 32-bit you won't have any Wine. The 64 bit version didn't run any useful programs last time I tried it (admittedly, that was years ago)
10:49 < dka> right now
10:49 < dka> I only want to get my desktop back
10:49 < dka> and my application like chrome
10:49 < dka> sauvin, yes not possible
10:50 < sauvin> Well, for one thing, you might not have any luck running chrome as root.
10:50 < dka> chrome got deleted as firefox during the bad command
10:50 < pingfloyd> I wouldn't trust chrome enough to run as root
10:50 < dka> cinnamon also and some other stuff I dont know what exactly but its related to linux-image
10:50 < sauvin> I didn't look at that mass very carefully, and I'm no expert in Debian structure, but it looks to me like whatever you did made a royal mess out of your system.
10:51 < hexnewbie> If you don't trust it to run it as root, why would you ever trust it to run in under your desktop user?
10:52 < pingfloyd> I don't
10:52 < pingfloyd> I don't trust chrome at all
10:52 < hexnewbie> dka: Starting over would be easiest. But attempting to install cinnamon (as well as your chrome, and firefox) again, like ‘apt-get install cinnammon chrome firefox-esr’, what does it say?
10:52 < lukey_> dka: what is in your sources.list?
10:52 < hexnewbie> dka: Er, apt-get install cinnamon chrome firefox-esr
10:53 < dka>  http://termbin.com/sggck
10:53 < dka> I manage to install cinnamon but I had to force the install of a older systemd
10:53 < dka> <dka> root@dev-01:/etc/apt# cinnamon
10:54 < dka> <dka> Failed to connect to session bus: Failed to execute child process "dbus-launch" (No such file or directory)
10:54 < hexnewbie> dka: What was the error given? By the way, using aptitude offers more options
10:54 < sauvin> systemd got b0rk3d? :\
10:55 < pingfloyd> dka: did you feel like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGwZVGKG30s
10:57 < j0seph> pingfloyd: what browser do you trust?
10:57 < pingfloyd> j0seph: firefox
10:57 < j0seph> pingfloyd: good, good
10:58 < dka> pingfloyd, I cant open your link
10:58 < pingfloyd> mozilla respects privacy
10:58 < dka> does anybody have the source.list for chrome ?
10:58 < poutine> pingfloyd, How do you feel about the integrations like Pocket integration, pushing Mr Robot hacked jokes on to users without them agreeing to it, etc?
10:59 < pingfloyd> I think that was a mistake for them to do
10:59 < pingfloyd> was a bad move
10:59 < lukey_> dka: Time to restore from your latest backup :)
11:01 < dka> Can someone google this error for me : Failed to connect to session bus: Failed to execute child process "dbus-launch" (No such file or directory)root@dev-01:/etc/apt#
11:02 < pingfloyd> says it affected "Firefox users who allow the browser to install and run studies -- functionality that seeds random users with new features before release to the broader user base"
11:02 < lukey_> dka: The executable "dbus-launch" does not exist on your system, it should be in the dbus-x11 package (at least on testing)
11:02 < pingfloyd> is that an opt in process?
11:02 < poutine> dka, do you have dbus-launch installed?
11:03 < dka> Unable to locate package dbus-launch
11:03 < poutine> pingfloyd, Sure, but this was a Mr Robot marketing campaign that made reference to you being hacked
11:03 < poutine> https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/16/16784628/mozilla-mr-robot-arg-plugin-firefox-looking-glass
11:03 < pingfloyd> I know
11:03 < dka> Wooo hoo
11:03 < pingfloyd> I've read it
11:03 < dka> I got my cinnamon back
11:03 < dka> Thanks to dbus-x11
11:04 < lukey_> pingfloyd, poutine: I use palemoon nowdays
11:04 < dka> but I need to keep the command line open
11:04 < dka> can I reboot now?
11:04 < pingfloyd> but it's doing what it was made to.  Install "new features".
11:04 < pingfloyd> I don't usually opt into stuff like that
11:04 < pingfloyd> same with the telemetry crap
11:05 < dka> Can anybody give me the repo for google chrome please ????
11:05 < pingfloyd> It would be bad if it were opt out instead of opt in, in my eyes.
11:05 < pingfloyd> all of that stuff should always be opt-in
11:06 < pingfloyd> I don't think it reception went anything like they imagined
11:06 < dka> I did fuck my system but now I got cinnamon back and I am reinstall chrome
11:06 < dka> How can I know if I am safe to reboot ?
11:06 < pingfloyd> but it's good that firefox users are sticklers like that
11:07 < poutine> pingfloyd, The forced Patch integration into the browser itself, despite the Patch stuff being non-OSS was really sketchy as well. They basically responded, "They'll get over it" after the backlash. I trust Mozilla more than google, but not sure Mozilla of today is a trustworthy company
11:07 < pingfloyd> that keeps them on the right track
11:08 < pingfloyd> they might not be
11:08 < pingfloyd> google is even worse than MS in many ways
11:08 < pingfloyd> cortana is way over the line though
11:08 < DLange> dka: put a Debian install CD onto a USB bar of yours. That way you can re-install completely if your system does not boot anymore.
11:09 < pingfloyd> but we expect that from MS
11:09 < DLange> if you have a seperate partition for /home you can preserve that data and no loose much
11:10 < pingfloyd> if nothing else, firefox is the lesser of evils in the choices you have for relevant browsers
11:10 < sauvin> I think I'd recommend chromium-browser over chrome, though.
11:10 < pingfloyd> what about Opera?
11:10 < j0seph> Op-what now?
11:11 < poutine> Opera is not owned by who it used to be, and their original browser was non-free and then they had an ad supported version, not sure why people have any love for opera
11:11 < pingfloyd> screw them then
11:11 < poutine> https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/18/opera-browser-sold-to-a-chinese-consortium-for-600-million/
11:11 < pingfloyd> maybe it's midori now
11:11 < pingfloyd> midori is missing tons of features though
11:11 < j0seph> Isn't Opera based off of some chrome technologies or am I wrong?
11:12 < pingfloyd> dillo ftw!
11:13 < dka> I am doing tail -f /var/log/syslog and I have the following
11:13 < dka> Jun  2 16:12:51 dev-01 sh[6176]: modprobe: FATAL: Module evdi not found in directory /lib/modules/4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64
11:13 < dka> Jun  2 16:12:52 dev-01 sh[6176]: Error! Your kernel headers for kernel 4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 cannot be found.
11:13 < dka> Jun  2 16:12:52 dev-01 sh[6176]: Please install the linux-headers-4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 package,
11:13 < lukey_> pingfloyd: :D
11:13 < dka> Jun  2 16:12:52 dev-01 sh[6176]: or use the --kernelsourcedir option to tell DKMS where it's located
11:13 < dka> Is there a wy to repair this before any reboot ?
11:14 < Cursarion> Hi, I have ksoftirqd CPU usage going haywire. How do I find out what's causing all the interrupts?
11:14 < lukey_> well reinstall linux-headers-4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 i guess
11:14 < poutine> it tells you what to do dka
11:15 < dka> thanks
11:15 < dka> lukey_, I can't find 4.14
11:15 < pingfloyd> dka: better make yourself some coffee.  It's going to be a loooooong night.
11:15 < j0seph> crush some ADD pills into it while you're at it.
11:15 < j0seph> i heard that helps.
11:16 < pingfloyd> you snort those
11:16 < dka> linux-image-4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 is already the newest version (4.14.13-1~bpo9+1).
11:16 < j0seph> not quite sure what it helps with, but it helps something.
11:16 < j0seph> death, probably.
11:16 < dka> poutine, what to do?\
11:16 < dka> please
11:17 < j0seph> dka: well, if 4.14 is already there, take th second option the output told you to take.
11:17 < pingfloyd> install the headers
11:17 < pingfloyd> *headers*
11:17 < j0seph> whoops, i cannot into reading.
11:17 < j0seph> yeah, the headers
11:19 < pingfloyd> dka: was it really a friend's computer you messed up?
11:19 < dka> ahah
11:20 < dka> Why is that important?
11:20 < dka> Wanna be my friend?
11:20 < j0seph> dka: there is no shame in breaking your own computer, there is only shame in not being able to fix it!
11:21 < j0seph> (tongue in cheek, do not take that to heart)
11:22 < pingfloyd> if you can't fix it, you have to commit seppuku though.
11:23 < j0seph> the suspense of waiting for him to see if he will be able to install linux-headers
11:24 < j0seph> or if it will be unable to be found
11:24 < Gasoline> it's made for one hell of a friday night
11:25 < j0seph> Gasoline: is it still friday for you?
11:25 < Gasoline> wellactually it's 4am saturday
11:25 < j0seph> 10am saturday here
11:25 < j0seph> no rain.. yet.
11:28 < dka> I have this symbolic link that doesn't exist: `build -> /usr/src/linux-headers-4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64`, is there a way to repair it ?
11:29 < Versalife> Install headers?
11:29 < lukey_> dka: --reinstall
11:29 < dka> there are already install
11:30 < dka> and if I try to remove them to reinstall them I need to remove the kernel
11:30 < lukey_> apt-get install --reinstall ....
11:35 < Cursarion> Hi, I have ksoftirqd CPU usage going haywire. How do I find out what's causing all the interrupts? Also, are there any workarounds? Like, what happens if I kill the process?
11:41 < DLange> Cursarion: cat  /proc/interrupts   # the one running haywire is your reason for ksoftirqd needing CPU
11:43 < Sveta> " check the setting of the "newLoginCommand" preference in the XScreenSaver.ad app-defaults file.  "
11:43 < Sveta> what's the path to it? i have debian and i don't know where the xscreensaver config may be found
11:44 < Sveta> search like https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=XScreenSaver&mode=filename&suite=stable&arch=any does not have a conf either
11:45 < pingfloyd> Sveta: is there a dotfile?
11:46 < Sveta> pingfloyd: yes, manpage mentions ~/.xscreensaver, but i'd like an example with all (default) options listed in it
11:46 < Sveta> and i'm not sure where that may be found
11:46 < pingfloyd> anything under /usr/share/ ?
11:47 < Sveta> ~/.xscreensaver exists and is not empty, but it has no newLoginCommand in it :-/
11:47 < DLange> Sveta: random places on the Internet, as usually, https://github.com/GalliumOS/xscreensaver/blob/master/driver/XScreenSaver.ad.in . App-defaults go into /etc/X11/app-defaults/ on Debian.
11:47 < pingfloyd> sometimes there will be examples in the dirs in there
11:48 < pingfloyd> so it uses xrdb?
11:48 < Sveta> thanks :-) i think /etc/X11/app-defaults/ is it
11:50 < Cursarion> DLange: well, none of them grow very quickly now, but LOC is off by 25 million and RES is off by 17 million
11:51 < Cursarion> well, more specifically, LOC on CPU0 grows like 300 per second and LOC on CPU1 grows like 1000 per second
11:52 < Cursarion> and that sort of brings up the question that what causes the Local timer interrupts
11:55 < DLange> Cursarion: some hardware interrupts that get re-scheduled because the system is overloaded
11:57 < sauvin> I don't know how true this has remained over the years, been a LONG time since I've worked at this level, but I do seem to recall that hardware interrupts on an IBM PC and its classes of clones were rather limited.
11:58 < DLange> well, every packet on the network generates one
11:58 < DLange> that's usually the main source these days
11:58 < Cursarion> DLange: mkay. the system was on fairly light load before this from what I observed. So that means there's no longer a way to tell what caused it?
11:59 < DLange> check dmesg, may be it tells you something
12:01 < michael2> Cursarion: do you have monitoring setup on the system?
12:01 < Cursarion> already did, didn't see anything probable. wpa-supplicant'd been failing something with the wireless connection, but not very heavily, and disabling the interface & killing the process had no effect on things
12:02 < Cursarion> michael2: probably nothing that'd track everything
12:06 < Cursarion> oh well, gonna reboot and hope it doesn't happen again
12:08 < Muimi> Hello.
12:08 < Muimi> 16 hours of memtest, 6 passes on 2 sticks of ram....
12:10 < Muimi1> Sorry.  I'm back now.
12:11 < jack_rip_vim> Muimi1: so?
12:11 < Muimi1> Well, after all that time doing mem test, and after replacing the power supply, I don't know why this computer is locking up.
12:12 < jack_rip_vim> Muimi1: can't boot?
12:12 < Muimi1> I wonder if it might possibly have something to do with the OS (ubuntu), or if I should start considering other possible issues.
12:12 < Muimi1> Sometimes it boots to a blank screen (very bright) and then goes to a black screen... waffles back and forth forever unless I unplug it (it's a laptop)
12:12 < Muimi1> Alienware R15 or R16 or something.  I don't remember.  I'd have to open the PC to figure it out
12:13 < Muimi1> 8 gigs of ram, snapdragon cpu.... so it surprises me when it does this
12:13 < jack_rip_vim> Muimi1: does it stops at a blank screen or black screen?
12:13 < jack_rip_vim> when boot
12:14 < lord_rob> Hi! I can take control of a Windows machine using VNC on my Debian Box. I'd like to take control of two remote windows boxes using linux, is it possible with foss software? The two machines would be behind the same router/fw, that's the problem ...
12:15 < jack_rip_vim> Muimi1: sometimes, the kernel will do a screen debug, it will look like what you said. but it will boot into the system at the end.
12:15 < jack_rip_vim> lord_rob: fdesktop
12:18 < aias> Hi. I broke pacman. It says "/usr/lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.27' not found (required by pacman)". Help?
12:19 < jack_rip_vim> aias, do you delete glibc?
12:20 < lord_rob> jack_rip_vim: fdesktop? don't you mean rdesktop?
12:20 < jack_rip_vim> If you have a backup, recover it, or you have to reinstall your os
12:20 < jack_rip_vim> lord_rob: it is same
12:21 < jack_rip_vim> aias, I think you have to reinstall
12:21 < aias> I think I may have upgraded pacman without upgrading anything else
12:21 < aias> And now it wants a later version of glibc?
12:21 < jack_rip_vim> yeah
12:23 < aias> I have glibc 2.26. I'll try manually upgrading to glibc 2.27
12:30 < Namarrgon> update the rest of the system, arch does not support partial upgrades
12:34 < Cursarion> things booted, so here's to hoping it doesn't happen again right away
12:34 < Cursarion> uptime was only about two months too :(
12:35 < Cursarion> thxbai!
12:38 < BluesKaj> Hiyas all
12:41 < sadasaulna> heh
12:51 < jack_rip_vim> hi BluesKaj
12:52 < BluesKaj> hi jack_rip_vim
12:53 < jack_rip_vim> :)
12:56 < lesshaste> I have to give a talk and it is just 5 png's. Is there a simple way to stick these together into one file?
12:57 < jack_rip_vim> lesshaste: for background?
12:57 < TwistedFate> In the case of a popular email service provider, do you think that free/libre software is less secure option compared to proprietary “security through obscurity”?
12:57 < lesshaste> jack_rip_vim, so that I can stand up and go through the images one after another
12:57 < lesshaste> * Compu (~Compu@unaffiliated/compu) has joined
12:58 < jack_rip_vim> lesshaste: put them in one dir
12:59 < jack_rip_vim> TwistedFate: ?
12:59 < Cheaterman> Bliblibli buddiez, I hope y'all doing goodie
12:59 < lesshaste> jack_rip_vim,  sadly the computer I will have to use is windows :(
12:59 < Cheaterman> I can't find a way to set the umask to something LESS restrictive than default 022 for my SFTP users!!! It's incredible!!! I lurked around, found many StackOverflow and ServerFault answers, but nothing seems to work
12:59 < kuri0> What Wireless-AC half-size mPCIe WiFi cards work without blobs ?
13:00 < TwistedFate> jack_rip_vim: i mean't it in a way where email service provider uses a free/libre front end and back end compared to proprietary/closed source
13:00 < Muimi1> Jack are you jack rip vim?
13:00 < jack_rip_vim> lesshaste: it is ok, same things
13:00 < Cheaterman> So far I tried things like -u 0002 argument to internal-sftp or sftp-server command, no success, as well as pam_umask.so module, no success either
13:00 < jack_rip_vim> Muimi1: lol
13:00 < Cheaterman> I don't understand how this can be so complicated, I thought it would take me five mins and I got stuck half an hour on it already XD
13:00 < Muimi1> jack_rip_vim: That's only half of the problem
13:00 < Cheaterman> Thanks in advance if you have ideas, buddiez
13:01 < Muimi1> Why the underscores, man? it makes the autocomplete way more difficult why not use dashes or no breaks?
13:01 < Muimi1> jackripvim jack-ripvim
13:01 < Cheaterman> I'm using OpenSSH_7.4p1 Debian-10+deb9u3 BTW
13:01 < jack_rip_vim> Muimi1: no
13:01 < Muimi1> there's several people named jack_r XD
13:01 < Muimi1> Anyway, the screen flushes are half of the issue.
13:01 < Muimi1> The other half is that the video hangs in some apps.  Maybe in the whole OS
13:01 < jack_rip_vim> Muimi1: just some nicks like me
13:01 < djph> Cheaterman: 022 is already 755 ...
13:02 < Muimi1> cause jack_rabbit
13:02 < Cheaterman> djph: I'd like 775
13:02 < jack_rip_vim> TwistedFate: you want a library for that?
13:02 < djph> Cheaterman: you do realize umasks are backwards, right?
13:02 < Cheaterman> djph: yus?
13:02 < djph> ohh, i can read... 7*7*5
13:02 < djph> lalalala
13:02 < Cheaterman> djph: no worriez :)
13:02 < TwistedFate> jack_rip_vim: what do you mean?
13:02 < jack_rip_vim> TwistedFate: I don't understand your problems
13:03 < djph> Cheaterman: it *MAY* also have issues with the umask of the mountpoint -- if that's 022...
13:03 < Cheaterman> djph: But seriously though, I got stuck on this for so long, I don't understand how this can be so complicated, openssh is just not being cooperative :-(
13:03 < Cheaterman> djph: OOOOooooooooooooh.
13:03 < TwistedFate> jack_rip_vim: nevermind then
13:03 < Cheaterman> fs-level umask, didn't think of that, thanks djph, lemme see
13:03 < djph> Cheaterman: not 100% sure on that though
13:03 < Cheaterman> it sorta makes sense tho so lemme check
13:03 < jack_rip_vim> TwistedFate: OK
13:03 < Cheaterman> what do I have to lose anyway right? lol
13:03 < djph> another half hour?
13:03 < djph> :)
13:04 < Cheaterman> xD
13:04 < sadasaulna> TwistedFate: you're asking a very broad philosophical question but the general consensus is that open source software leads to better security than closed
13:04 < Cheaterman> I really need to start implementing business logic ASAP, I'm wasting plenty of time on this infra stuff hahaha
13:06 < Muimi1> Oh.  Maybe the issue was actually that the damned password still isn't working out right.
13:07 < Cheaterman> djph: Hmm, apparently that's for filesystem that suck, like fat/vfat/exfat/ntfs
13:07 < Cheaterman> :D
13:07 < Cheaterman> not for ext4
13:12 < jim> well those filesystems were made for dos/windows
13:13 < Cheaterman> yus, hence not much about perms built into them, so I undersstand why they have umask= option for mount and not ext4
13:13 < Cheaterman> unfortunately that doesn't help me much :-/
13:13 < Cheaterman> #openssh channel seems to have a recommended doc for setting up sftp that I didn't read, so I'll go see it and maybe it'll give some pointers
13:13 < Cheaterman> :-/
13:14 < TRS-80> good morning fine people!
13:17 < Cheaterman> Ohai TRS-80 :-) hope you doing goodie
13:17 < TRS-80> Cheaterman: I am doing great! Thanks you. :) And yourself?
13:20 < TRS-80> getting ready to reinstall Debian (which I managed to break), any thoughts on installing on fresh partition and using say dd for backups vs installing KVM and then creating a virtual machine? I want to be able to easily fix/restore if I break Debian again (or more accurately, get from Stable into Testing/Unstable with no supported path back to Stable).
13:22 < oiaohm> TRS-80: really forcing debian back to stable  from testing is possible but I will say it is painful.
13:22 < TRS-80> I should probably add that I am working on building new server/workstation hardware that will virtualize a few different current machines, including my main workstation (the one I broke Debian on) as well as some others (Cubietruck running NextCloud instance, etc.) hence my thought to move in that direction and start learning.
13:22 < oiaohm> TRS-80: apt can be got to do it.
13:24 < TRS-80> oiaohm: Yeah that's my understanding, too. Hence I'll just create a new partition (or VM), leave old one in case I end up needing/overlooking anything, and start over from new. I think it's probably just easier and certainly cleaner. I think I have a better sense now of what NOT to do to break Debian.
13:26 < oiaohm> TRS-80: debian apt normally warns you when you are about to do something highly risky.
13:27 < adtac> yep, got a warning when I accidently tried to install emacs
13:27  * TRS-80 glares at adtac
13:27  * adtac ducks away from the flame war
13:28 < TRS-80> you'll need a bigger bait :D
13:28 < TRS-80> (that wasn't a suggestion btw) lol
13:31 < intrigus> I have a question about signal handling in a parent/child process relationship. Is this the right channel for such a question?
13:36 < djph> TRS-80: a warning when you accidentally tried to install sysV init?
13:38 < sklv> hi, would this PCIe splitter be supported with a recent kernel? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Aneew-PCIe-1-to-3-PCI-Express-1X-Slots-Riser-Card-Mini-ITX-to-External-3/32873511904.html
13:39 < sklv> i want to use it to connect https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4x4-802-11ac-Wave2-1733Mbps-MiniPCIE-NIC/32817490188.html and https://www.aliexpress.com/item/lt4120-Snapdragon-X5-LTE-T77W595-796928-001-4G-WWAN-M-2-150Mbps-LTE-Modem-For-HP/32815710553.html via an adapter
13:46 < lord_rob> Debian for TRS-80 ?
13:46 < lord_rob> good luck ...
13:47 < kazdax> did anyone have a problem on the 26th with thier internet ?
13:48 < TRS-80> lord_rob: one of my first computer experiences was with a TRS-80 in around third grade. hence the moniker ;)
13:49 < TRS-80> not a description of current hardware ;)
13:50 < lord_rob> my father had one when I was born, so it was the first computer @home
13:51 < lord_rob> TRS-80: j/k :)
13:52 < TRS-80> lord_rob: I have seen all sorts of questions in this channel about getting Linux running on old hardware (that's one of the things I love about Linux!) so you never know! lol
13:53 < lord_rob> i386 is the oldest one, isn't it ?
13:54 < TRS-80> I'm only a level 1 wizard presently, someone else will have to answer that
13:55 < kazdax> my book for the redhat certification is coming
13:55 < kazdax> wooo
13:56 < pingfloyd> TRS-80: are you on a trash-80?
13:56 < kazdax> hey is rust better than C ?
13:57 < pingfloyd> no
13:57 < kazdax> someone told me to learn rust instead of C
13:57 < pingfloyd> why?
13:57 < kazdax> for writting programs
13:58 < lord_rob> ^^
13:58 < kazdax> i dont know he said it was a good one because there is no use of pointers
13:58 < pingfloyd> sounds like he couldn't handle C
13:58 < kazdax> i told him i was really bad with pointers and he said try rust
13:58 < Versalife> But where is the fun in that?
13:58 < Versalife> No pointers pff
13:58 < rodgzilla> there isn't really a "best" programming language, it depends on the usecase
13:59 < kazdax> right for example quick program creation like scripts and admin stuff python is a good choice
13:59 < lord_rob> prolog ftw :)
14:00 < TRS-80> kazdax: kids these days... /smh
14:00 < kazdax> yea tell me about it
14:01 < kazdax> is there a good magazine dedicated towards linux
14:01 < kazdax> i want to buy a subscibtion
14:01 < TRS-80> LWN? you mean online or in dead tree format?
14:01 < pingfloyd> there's linux magazines
14:01 < kazdax> in paper i mean
14:02 < TRS-80> I think a lot of resources online, seeing as how that is Linux sort of native environment
14:02 < pingfloyd> why would you want a magazine that isn't on paper?
14:02 < kazdax> yea i dont have a kindle or anything
14:02 < TRS-80> pingfloyd: why would you want one that is? lol
14:02 < kazdax> if i was to read it then it would be sitting infront of the desktop
14:02 < pingfloyd> it's kind of the point of a *magazine*
14:02 < kazdax> so the paper would be better ..since i can be anyplace with it
14:03 < lord_rob> then buy some and see by yourself what suits you
14:03 < pingfloyd> kazdax: visit a good newstand
14:03 < pingfloyd> one with a big magazine selection
14:04 < Cheaterman> TRS-80: Me doing super bliblibli, except I can't find for the life of me how to properly set the default umask of my SFTP users and it's driving me insane
14:04 < Cheaterman> :D
14:04 < Cheaterman> I spent like 1h on this
14:04 < kazdax> we dont have news stands in Indiana
14:04 < kazdax> atleast now where i live
14:04 < TRS-80> Cheaterman: 1 h only? just getting warmed up! XD
14:05 < kazdax> but i see there is alot of magazines on linux
14:05 < nebulae> HI all. Trying to install with larevale new <project name> but getting the following mesage https://pastebin.com/j66Y1xc4
14:05 < nebulae> anyone seen it before
14:05 < kazdax> in a sense tsr is correct ..that we dont really need magazines
14:06 < kazdax> but its still a vaiable option for entertainment and education
14:06 < TRS-80> kazdax: and surviving EMP, don't forget that
14:06 < kazdax> even tho whats taught in there or iyou being infromed on something is probably on some blog or website
14:06 < Cheaterman> TRS-80: lol not really, at this point I really need to do business logic, so I'm putting the infra stuff on the side
14:06 < pingfloyd> only print will survive emp
14:06 < Cheaterman> But it's annoying me, how complicated can it be to override a umask FFS!!!!
14:07 < TRS-80> Cheaterman: I'm assuming you've checked the usual places, docs, RTFM, etc.?
14:07 < nebulae> sorry wrong channel
14:08 < TRS-80> ...followed by internet search?
14:08 < pingfloyd> use setfacl if you want to override
14:08 < TRS-80> ding ding ding thank you pingfloyd
14:09 < pingfloyd> but is overriding the way to go here to begin with?
14:10 < TRS-80> I have been investigating the wonderful world of text based cli accounting this morning (ledger and derivatives). Really thinking I am going to go this way instead of using GNUCash as I start to get my finances in order.
14:10 < pingfloyd> text based was good enough in the past
14:10 < pingfloyd> finance wasn't really anything that ever needed graphics
14:11 < pingfloyd> they usually just slow you down and get in the way with that
14:11 < sadasaulna> TRS-80: what packages are out there?
14:12 < TRS-80> I like the idea of text as a universal file format, I certainly follow that philosophy with my todos (todo.txt) and pretty close with personal notes (TiddlyWiki), so this would be same philosophy applied to accounting
14:12 < TRS-80> sadasaulna: http://plaintextaccounting.org/
14:12 < Cheaterman> TRS-80: Yes :-((( many Stackoverflows, many stackexchanges, most of them suggest a -u option to internal-sftp or to sftp-server, none of which work, and I even tried another crazy solution involving directly pam_umask.so, which didn't work either
14:12 < Cheaterman> that was very underwhelming lol
14:12 < sadasaulna> TRS-80: thanks, I willl take a look at this
14:13 < Cheaterman> TRS-80: From what I understand, all of the solution I explored (except pam_umask.so) basically can only restrict a umask further, not completely override it
14:13 < Cheaterman> solutionsù
14:13 < Cheaterman> *
14:14 < TRS-80> Cheaterman: did you see what pingfloyd posted above? setfacl? I think he was talking to you?
14:14 < TRS-80> followed by "pingfloyd> but is overriding the way to go here to begin with?"
14:14 < Cheaterman> TRS-80: ouch
14:14 < Cheaterman> pingfloyd: Sorry I didn't see
14:15 < Cheaterman> I found a solution like this too, but the way they use it, it seems like if I create a new folder, that new folder won't apply the group permissions unless I do a setfacl call onto it?
14:15 < Cheaterman> I have to admit I didn't try it, because it seemed like there was this issue
14:15 < Cheaterman> Maybe I should just try and see :-)
14:15 < Cheaterman> Thanks for the hint
14:16 < pingfloyd> you're welcome
14:16 < Cheaterman> pingfloyd: BTW, you were wondering about the use case - this is a shared chroot for webserver "managers"
14:16 < Cheaterman> they should all have write access to each other's files by default
14:16 < pingfloyd> TRS-80: one exception for graphics, is charts and graphs though.
14:17 < pingfloyd> TRS-80: but I often enjoyed the tui spreadsheets over modern ones for instance, because you could input and navigate so fast completely by keyboard.
14:18 < pingfloyd> analogous to vi vs. a gui text editor
14:18 < TRS-80> so plain text accounting is just a file format, there is a lot you can do with it like automate importing transactions from your online banking via CSV/OFX, even bayesian training to recognize imported transactions with this: https://github.com/cantino/reckon
14:19 < TRS-80> then you can parsee that data into all sorts of whatever you want from there. To me having the data in a universal format over a long time is the best thing about it. Your data is not stuck in any proprietary format.
14:19 < pingfloyd> I keep most things in plain text format
14:20 < pingfloyd> for reasons you mention
14:20 < TRS-80> pingfloyd: I am coming around to that view as well
14:20 < pingfloyd> you can do endless things with that data
14:20 < TRS-80> so many scripting, conversion tools, modes in Emacs (or vim) etc.
14:20 < pingfloyd> if something doesn't do what you want, you program something to pretty easily
14:20 < TRS-80> ways to automate things, etc.
14:20 < TRS-80> yep
14:20 < pingfloyd> the userland really works well with text
14:21 < TRS-80> yep
14:21 < TRS-80> well I suppose that is what the whole original intent was
14:21 < pingfloyd> eventually having to deal with other systems, will drive you nuts (e.g., being stuck in windows where everything is endless proprietary/binary formats).
14:22 < TRS-80> UNIX: Making Computers Easier To Use -- AT&T Archives film from 1982, Bell Laboratories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
14:22 < TRS-80> very high wizards per capita in that video
14:22 < TRS-80> :D
14:23 < pingfloyd> nice link
14:23 < pingfloyd> thanks for sharing
14:23 < TRS-80> it's great to show people in answering "why GNU/Linux?" if they don't understand
14:24 < TRS-80> don't fully grok it, I should have said
14:26 < sadasaulna> TRS-80: or just "Why UNIX", I get along well with NetBSD myself, just playing again with Linux after having left it alone a couple of years now
14:26 < alexandre9099> hi, what is the best method for compression on tigervnc? i would like to game on my *powerful* pc on lan but the either the quality is terrible or there is a huge latency
14:27 < sadasaulna> 1:09 maybe he could use UNIX to set that picture straight in his office
14:28 < ananke> alexandre9099: compression will add latency. that's inevitable
14:28 < lord_rob> Hi again! I'm using a Thinkpad x230 and I don't know how to do the scrolllock key. Anyone can enlighten me ? :)
14:29 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: reality is graphics to monitor can be over 5Gbs
14:29 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: I guess you are not using 10Gbs networking.
14:29 < pingfloyd> TRS-80: a trash-80 was one of the first computers I used
14:29 < TRS-80> pingfloyd: me too :) hence the moniker
14:30 < pingfloyd> TRS-80: my programming class in jr high, we used them
14:30 < pingfloyd> I liked my TI99/4A better though
14:30 < pingfloyd> and my C64 even better than my TI
14:30 < lord_rob> I used this computer to learn programming :), when I was in primary school. 'fcourse it wasn't mine
14:30 < pingfloyd> also used Apple IIe's
14:31 < pingfloyd> those were pretty nice also
14:31 < pingfloyd> so was the atari 800
14:32 < sadasaulna> zx-spectrum here
14:32 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, well, but i mean, 1080p video with *good* quality can have like 10mbit/s bitrate
14:32 < sadasaulna> and CP/M on an Amstrad PCW
14:32 < pingfloyd> trs-80 model 3
14:32 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: how long do you think it takes to process a video to make it work on such a low bandwidth.
14:33 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: compression is quite an overhead.
14:33 < TRS-80> sadasaulna: 3:34 Dennis Ritchie talks about importance of community, and I think this is where GNU/Linux branch shines over BSD branch (JMHO). Of course other UNIX-y aspects they share in common, obviously.
14:34 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: also you have to remember that a video being compressed the compression system can look into the future in the stream as well.
14:34 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: streaming a game you cannot time travel forwards and optimsie the compression.
14:34 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, hmm, so unless i got an extremely fast connection (maybe gigabit) it would be impossible to have good quality+good latency
14:34 < alexandre9099> what about compression for jpeg?
14:34 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: steam link compression depends on graphics card for big assist.
14:35 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: but even steam link runs into trouble in connections less than 1Gbs at times.
14:36 < pingfloyd> TRS-80: gnu took that to the next level
14:36 < ananke> alexandre9099: said 'good quality 1080p' video is well compressed, with most likely h264. that's computationally intensive and will introduce latency
14:36 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, with wifi, steam in house streaming seems to do a pretty good job on that
14:37 < pingfloyd> TRS-80: Stallman basically wanted to make it so nobody can control who can develop the software.
14:37 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: do note I said at times.   Games in steam  also can adjust things to help steam link.
14:37 < TRS-80> pingfloyd: yep, and thank Goodness
14:37 < lord_rob> My parents had written my birth announcement using the TRS-80's dot matrix printer. It was original, and it was my destiny ^^
14:37 < pingfloyd> TRS-80: in the early days of unix, the proprietary software company hadn't performed the coup quite yet of the industry.
14:38 < pingfloyd> it was more just small development firms as far as commercial software
14:38 < pingfloyd> *companies
14:38 < TRS-80> which is why I often say rms and GNU / Free Software movement are the only real reasons we can have nice things
14:39 < TRS-80> everything else (Linux) came after that, and stemming from that important underlying philosophy
14:40 < pingfloyd> linux was the final and critical piece missing from the gnu os
14:40 < phinxy> I wish there was a open hardware computer, like a modern commadore64
14:40 < Cheaterman> pingfloyd: O_________O the facl method doesn't work either. What the heck.
14:41 < pingfloyd> phinxy: there is
14:41 < pingfloyd> phinxy: PCs
14:41 < pingfloyd> the firmware on some of the hardware may be proprietary, but the architecture is open
14:42 < kazdax> if i gegt my RHCSA ...do i need a high school diploma to get a job ?
14:42 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, btw, if there is such a high bandwidth going on for example on an hdmi cable can't those be used for ethernet comunications?
14:42 < Cheaterman> What I did was « sudo setfacl -m "default:group::rw" /var/www/html/ », making sure to have the fs mounted with acl support first
14:42 < Cheaterman> didn't help o__O
14:43 < TRS-80> phinxy: http://www.lowrisc.org/ ;)
14:43 < pingfloyd> kazdax: that depends on the employer
14:44 < kazdax> but usually they dont care ?
14:45 < pingfloyd> they're going to care most about how much experience you have with the software they use
14:45 < kazdax> right and i should not expect getting a good job right off the bat
14:45 < kazdax> if i do my RCHSA
14:45 < pingfloyd> in IT most are okay with experience in lieu of education
14:45 < kazdax> someone mentioned i need to do contract jobs and build my work experince
14:45 < sadasaulna> alexandre9099: you can get high bandwidth from ethernet, but its expensive to do over any distance.  Your HDMI cable isn't very long
14:45 < pingfloyd> that's some good advice
14:46 < pingfloyd> do contract and freelance while you try to land a permanent job
14:46 < kazdax> yup
14:46 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: the current max for HDMI 2.1 is 48Gbs for graphics data.   Out of that only a 100Mbs can be given to ethernet.
14:46 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: and that is a specification limitation.
14:47 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, yeah, but i mean, if that can be used for graphics data can't it be used for networking purposes?
14:47 < kazdax> i think it also depends on the speed of the network card
14:47 < kazdax> the speed it can process
14:48 < kazdax> so if you want it to process faster data it might be a expensive card
14:49 < kazdax> i dont know how network cards work
14:49 < kazdax> :P
14:49 < kazdax> please feel free to ignore my comment :D
14:49 < djph> it's involved, but at the same time not insanely complex
14:49 < kazdax> ya pink i was thinking about doing my RHCSA And RHCSE
14:50 < kazdax> i eventually want to move down to cali
14:50 < kazdax> so building up my work experince here in Indiana
14:50 < kazdax> and doing my certs to get there
14:50 < sadasaulna> alexandre9099: not over distance, no
14:50 < kazdax> would be cool to be at silicon valley ..working there and living
14:50 < kazdax> i heard its way to expensive
14:50 < djph> wuite
14:50 < djph> *quite
14:50 < sadasaulna> watching UNIX video: so now I know what Lorinda Cherry looks like
14:50 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Feature_support  Note I said specification limitation.   Your normal 10Gbs and 40Gbs network cards are not designed for the same values as HDMI.
14:51 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: if a hdmi specification was released allowing hardware to be made to use all of hdmi as networking it could be.
14:51 < alexandre9099> hmm got it :)
14:51 < sadasaulna> oiaohm: but over what distance?  What is max distance for a HDMI cable?
14:52 < kazdax> hdmi cables are more expensive than CAT cabling
14:52 < kazdax> even if you get them from china
14:52 < djph> seems to be 50 feet, although 25 ...
14:52 < djph> *25 is more commonly the max
14:53 < sadasaulna> yup, so this is why its not used for networking ;)
14:53 < kazdax> whats the distance for a ethenet cable ?
14:53 < oiaohm> sadasaulna: not exactly.    HDMI 2.1 passive is 2-3 meters.   Active boosters can be taken out to 100 metres.
14:54 < sadasaulna> kazdax: depends a lot on the speed, cable type etc, typically 10M
14:54 < sadasaulna> 100M
14:54 < Versalife> ethernet goes up to 100m without boosters iirc
14:54 < kazdax> ahh
14:54 < kazdax> 100 meters ?
14:54 < sadasaulna> oiaohm: but you said it your self active boosters
14:54 < kazdax> thats alot of space
14:54 < sadasaulna> with fibre ethernet, 10km
14:54 < kazdax> nice
14:54 < sadasaulna> or more
14:54 < Versalife> HDMI passive is 2-3m? that seems too low
14:54 < sadasaulna> depends on the tech you use
14:55 < Versalife> i have a 10m cable here and it works
14:55 < kazdax> they started verison fiber cable here in Indiana
14:55 < kazdax> verizon
14:55 < djph> The spec (for copper) is 90 meters in wall, plus 5 meters on either end for patching.
14:55 < kazdax> ahh i see
14:56 < kazdax> as a network engineer do you have to do all the moving cables throught the wall stuff your own self ?
14:56 < djph> fiber is a bit all over the place, although I think it's something like 150 km
14:56 < djph> depends
14:56 < kazdax> that seems like a job for the contruction worker imho
14:56 < oiaohm> sadasaulna: https://www.cablechick.com.au/cables/avencore-carbon-series-30m-hdmi-active-optical-cable-supports-ultra-hd-4k60hz.html  active booster versions of hdmi do come in 100 meter lengths and do use firber.
14:56 < sadasaulna> kazdax: normally someone else will put trunking in, there are contracttors you can pay who specialise in it
14:56 < kazdax> ahhh yes
14:57 < djph> If you're doing your own contracting - probably.  If you're just the network guy in a bigger company, yeah, it's probably contracted out to the electricians
14:57 < oiaohm> sadasaulna: please note the boost power is coming out the hdmi sockets at each end.
14:57 < Versalife> with fiber it also depends if it is single or multi mode
14:57 < kazdax> thats what i thought because it made no sense if the network guy was going to do that
14:57 < oiaohm> sadasaulna: so these are scary long hdmi cables.
14:58 < sadasaulna> Versalife: we had some fibre transceivers that were rated for long distance and they wouldn't actually work over short distance, so we patched them so they went up and down the campus just so they were travelling long enough to work.. ;)
14:59 < oiaohm> sadasaulna: it would be possible to make hdmi even long but past 100 metres encrypted content on hdmi never works.
14:59 < sadasaulna> oiaohm: not much point though, HDMI just isn't really intended for that job, its what Ethernet is for
15:00 < pingfloyd> like trying to cram a square peg into a round hole
15:00 < sadasaulna> i mean - you can do tcp/ip over carrier pigeon (its been done), doesn't mean you want to do that way
15:00 < sadasaulna> pingfloyd: yep
15:00 < oiaohm> sadasaulna: with those fibre transeivers you did not just use the classic of a large pit with a large roll.
15:00 < pingfloyd> if there's one lesson learned over and over in computing it's "right tool for the job"
15:01 < pingfloyd> saves lots of hair pulling and massive workload
15:01 < oiaohm> sadasaulna: I know of one area where there is 2 km of fiber on a pit so phone company installed fibre transceiver would work.
15:02 < pingfloyd> in unix-like environments you usually have quite a few tools to choose from for any job, which is extra nice
15:05 < pingfloyd> I think this part right here is especially good for beginners to see https://youtu.be/XvDZLjaCJuw?t=5m17s so they can understand why unix tenet is so important.
15:06 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: I don't know if turbovnc would behave better for you.
15:06 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, i'll try
15:11 < sadasaulna> oiaohm: yep that basically, its a dirty hack but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do :D
15:14 < kazdax> woops
15:14 < kazdax> does vim come installed default on every linux system ?
15:14 < kazdax> or vi ?
15:15 < alexandre9099> i think so
15:16 < TRS-80> kazdax: conventional wisdom is that it's likely more often installed esp in terminal type environments
15:16 < kazdax> right
15:16 < kazdax> i dont think it really does matter
15:16 < kazdax> but its good to know if i ever come by a linux system that has no internet
15:16 < kazdax> i can use vim
15:16 < kazdax> vi
15:16 < kazdax> i mean
15:16 < oiaohm> sadasaulna: you always hope a dirty hack is a option is not like the bad luck the phone company here had of finding a Non-Newtonian fluid rock.  That is ripper proof and insanely resistant to explosives.
15:16 < TRS-80> well compared to Emacs. However nano it seems to me is the true LCD nowadays
15:17 < kazdax> LCD ?
15:17 < kazdax> nano has been around for a while
15:17 < TRS-80> Lowest Common Denominator
15:17 < kazdax> and i think its installed by default too
15:17 < kazdax> ahh i see
15:17 < kazdax> but nano dosnt have the commands that vim has
15:17 < kazdax> with vim and those commands you can do so much
15:17 < TRS-80> that's what I meant, installed by default
15:18 < kazdax> its just cool to know that so much is there in linux
15:18 < kazdax> and they might seem like simple tools but can offer so much flexibility
15:18 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, hmm remmina says unsupported vencrypt version, maybe i'm doing something wrong :D
15:19 < kazdax> i once tried learning perl
15:19 < kazdax> and i noticed that you have different ways to write the same code in that language
15:19 < kazdax> like even the sections of code ..the sperator of code sections can be different
15:20 < kazdax> like seperating functions i mean
15:20 < kazdax> {}
15:20 < kazdax> i think you can use () <---these too
15:20 < kazdax> isntead of the curly braces
15:40 < Pentode> i've never heard of such a thing, they both have specific places in perl, just like any other language.
15:40 < Pentode> tho in C you _can_ omit curly braces sometimes, and insert them just about wherever you want.
15:41 < gemishhood> Hey
15:41 < gemishhood> I've been having this problem, my cursor wont show up on certain applications
15:41 < Pentode> which applications?
15:42 < gemishhood> Polybar, most things that run on gtk and some that run on qt
15:42 < Pentode> what window manager? does it persist with other window managers?
15:43 < gemishhood> i3gaps, and I have not tried. Ill install openox and report back
15:43 < Pentode> k
15:43 < gemishhood> openbox*
15:44 < prmsrswt> i am running i3-gaps with polybar and it is working fine
15:44 < prmsrswt> could you post your config files
15:49 < TheWild> hello
15:50 < TheWild> I got yet another Linux issue, gosh, why? Because it's not Windows?
15:51 < Pentode> yeah cus windows is problem free. ;)
15:51 < BluesKaj> TheWild, generalizations aren't gonna help you
15:52 < TheWild> i3 became my preferred DE, but when I'm logged into it automatically, the terminal has got some crappy font. No, wait... the font hasn't changed. The subpixel rendering is disabled!
15:52 < TRS-80> TheWild: gr8 b8 m8, I r8 it 8/8
15:52 < TheWild> BluesKaj: sorry, I didn't rant on anything today ;)
15:53 < kazdax> is there a room dedicated to bash programming ?
15:53 < TheWild> #bash ?
15:53 < BluesKaj> this is not the place for rants, a reasonable attitude and questions will probly work
15:53 < kazdax> would i ever need to learn C if my work to admin a system
15:53 < kazdax> instead use bash
15:54 < kazdax> for most of the needed scripting
15:54 < gemishhood> On bspwm, my mouse words just fine
15:54 < mawk> depends on how low level the things you do are
15:54 < gemishhood> Same with openbox
15:54 < kazdax> ya well ..i mean i enjoy the idea of system programming
15:54 < BluesKaj> kazdax, yeah that's called #bash
15:54 < kazdax> to have that control over the sstem
15:54 < kazdax> sys
15:55 < TheWild> weird, terminal seems to be the only thing where the font is crap. Does anyone have a clue where could be the problem?
15:55 < kazdax> what if i knew python also
15:55 < TheWild> #python ?
15:55 < Pentode> TheWild, some desktop environments have their own font rendering routines. i3 is just a window manager.
15:55 < Pentode> i'm guessing freetype's subpixel rendering is disabled or something?
15:55 < BluesKaj> your rterminal profile > appearnace>fonts
15:56 < BluesKaj> TheWild,^
15:56 < prmsrswt> TheWild, what terminal emulator are you using?
15:56  * Pentode recommends bitmap fonts in terminals
15:56 < TheWild> it's... well, it didn't say its name
15:57 < Pentode> and madly enough someone decided that it'd be a good idea to disable bitmap fonts in most distros to avoid problems with GTK's inability to render them...
15:57 < runjutsu> Do I need to make a whole new chroot just to run a bunch of programs with other versions of a set of libraries? I've got a situation where a script starts a bunch of other scripts that starts a bunch of program that I want to try with other versions of dynamic libraries
15:57 < TheWild> it's gnome-terminal
15:58 < prmsrswt> well then are you using gnome as a DE?
15:58 < TheWild> now I don't know what DE I'm using. I got Ubuntu 16.04.4 and installed i3 on it.
15:58 < TheWild> maybe it's gnome? Or not?
15:59 < Pentode> TheWild, like i said. Freetype is likely built without subpixel support if it doesn't work with standalone windowmanagers.
15:59 < Pentode> theres a flag to rebuilt it with subpixel rendering support
15:59 < gemishhood> Hey, Im having this weird glitch with i3 where my cursor doesnt appear in most gtk application and some qt apps
15:59 < Pentode> rebuild even
15:59 < TheWild> give me a while, I'll relog to Unity
16:00 < prmsrswt> I think gnome-terminal have an option to change fonts in preference tab
16:00 < gemishhood> It only happens with i3, openbox and bspwn both work fine
16:01 < TheWild> Unity in other hand didn't remember what wallpaper I set.
16:01 < TheWild> Ctrl+Alt+T
16:01 < TheWild> works here nicely
16:01 < TheWild> when I go back to i3 now, it will probably work like it was yestarday
16:02 < TheWild> yesterday
16:02 < autopsy> Can someome tell me where journalctl is getting it's input from which files?
16:02 < TheWild> So where's the catch?
16:02 < autopsy> I want to truncate the files.
16:03 < prmsrswt> most of the log files are stored in /var/log/ directory
16:03 < autopsy> /var/log/syslog maybe?
16:05 < prmsrswt> in my computer it is /var/log/journal
16:06 < autopsy> prmsrswt, ok thank you.
16:07 < kazdax> is the linux programming interface a good book to learn linux system programming ?
16:08 < Pentode> kazdax, yes
16:08 < kazdax> okay just making sure i have the best content
16:09 < Pentode> probably the best book IMO though i've hardly looked at them all
16:09 < Pentode> it comes with a full suite of examples, also.
16:15 < Jari--> hi
16:16 < Pentode> hi
16:18 < rcf> Hello.
16:20 < runjutsu> can someone explain mount --bind to me real quick? I'm too stupid to understand the manual
16:21 < jelly> runjutsu, mount --bind /some/dir /some/new/place/where/the/same/dir/will/be/visible
16:21 < jelly> not much to explain
16:23 < runjutsu> I have a feeling that there's something important that I'm missing here?
16:23 < rascul> it makes a directory accessible from another location
16:23 < Pentode> runjutsu, it effectively allows you to have "two" mount points.
16:23 < rascul> you can even use different mount options for the bind mount
16:24 < rascul> it's quite useful for making things accessible in a chroot
16:24 < runjutsu> interesting
16:24 < runjutsu> why --bind though, why can't you just mount it "again" at some other place?
16:25 < Pentode> you can't mount something twice. you would have to remount it to an alternate location.
16:25 < Versalife> if you want to chroot in a dead system, you want to have /proc /sys /dev etc., but the live system wants it too runjutsu
16:26 < runjutsu> I see
16:26 < rascul> you can bind mount directories, where normally you could only mount filesystems
16:26 < runjutsu> but what about hard or symlinks then, why not that instead of mounting?
16:26 < de-facto> how do i toggle auto mute in alsa mixer? it seems it expects his user knows the secret of which hidden keypress it will accept
16:27 < runjutsu> rascul: I see, you mount filesystems usually, that's what mount does, period. But why is this function called bind then?
16:27 < ayjay_t> how do worker pools arbitrate who connects to any given incoming connection?
16:27 < Versalife> https://askubuntu.com/questions/557733/ln-s-vs-mount-bind the first answer says it all I think
16:27 < Pentode> a symlink won't look and act like a mount point. as rascul said, it can have different mount options as well.
16:28 < runjutsu> Pentode: what about a hard link? Wouldn't it be functionally equivalent to a mount bind if mount options are irrelevant?
16:29 < Pentode> basically, yes. if the only motive is to have the mount accessible in an alternate location.
16:29 < Versalife> I don't think hardlinks across filesystems would work
16:31 < jelly> runjutsu, there are usage scenarios where no other functionality does the trick.  Some include cross-filesystem fucntionality.  Some trick the software that doesn't like symlinks.
16:31 < runjutsu> Versalife: it doesn't
16:31 < ayjay_t> really?
16:31 < ayjay_t> i thought inodes, which hardlinks point to, were implemented on a layer above file system semantics
16:31 < jelly> runjutsu, some present read-only copies of parts of the filesystem to less trusted environments
16:31 < runjutsu> jelly: excellently explained
16:31 < rascul> runjutsu symlinks to locations outside the chroot won't be usable from within the chroot
16:32 < rascul> a bind mount is not the same as a filesystem mount, but in practice it's similar enough and useful enough to put in the mount tool
16:32 < jelly> ayjay_t, no, inodes are precisely at filesystem level, each fs instance has their own
16:33 < rascul> bind mounts are also useful for nfs
16:34 < ayjay_t> when we're talking about filesystem, are we talking about file trees, or are we talking about ext4/ntfs/btrfs drivers?
16:34 < ayjay_t> or are we talking about both
16:34 < runjutsu> rascul: that answers the question I was going to ask: why the --bind flag, why not just a syntax that addresses the mounting point and source directly
16:35 < runjutsu> ayjay_t: both
16:36 < ayjay_t> O_o
16:36 < runjutsu> ayjay_t: what it means depends somewhat on the context too
16:36 < rascul> runjutsu normally you can't mount directories, --bind lets you
16:37 < runjutsu> ayjay_t: the file tree can be called a file system since it's a system of files. But there's also a "system" behind how the files are organized and stored, a specification or a disk following that system, and that's also called a file system.
16:37 < rascul> you can also use bind mounts to access the files on a directory that is currently inaccessible due to being a mount point for a filesystem
16:38 < TheWild> on Linux compiling public stuff from sources gets far easier than on Windows... so, I can finally fix the game after those bstrds core developers who broke it to prevent cheating, hah hah hah (evil laugh).
16:38 < runjutsu> ayjay_t: pretty much all file systems (be it an instance of a file system on a disk or a specification for such a system) have a tree of files with directories and subdirectories etc
16:39 < rascul> runjutsu maybe that's why the typical usage is without the space, ie filesystem vs file system
16:39 < ayjay_t> huh
16:39 < ayjay_t> til
16:39 < rascul> what is til?
16:43 < rascul> oh, it's the technical information library for the office of construction & facilities management in the us department of veterans affairs
16:43 < rascul> good thing google exists
16:43 < ajaxtgf> *nods into room* Hey, all.
16:44 < rascul> i take offense to your nodding
16:44 < rascul> and your usage of "all" instead of "y'all"
16:44 < ajaxtgf> Terribly sorry about that, really. Would you prefer me to wave, instead?
16:44 < rascul> yes
16:44 < runjutsu> <rascul> you can also use bind mounts to access the files on a directory that is currently inaccessible due to being a mount point for a filesystem
16:45 < ajaxtgf> *waves at rascul* Better?
16:45 < rascul> ajaxtgf getting there
16:45 < runjutsu> rascul: wouldn't that just bind mount what's mounted on that directory
16:45 < ajaxtgf> Eh, not so bad, hah.
16:45 < rascul> runjutsu no, it bind mounts the actual directory, not the mount point
16:46 < runjutsu> cool
16:46 < runjutsu> in order to bind mount a directory, I'll have to mount the disk of that directory first, and then bind mount that directory?
16:46 < runjutsu> or is there a shortcut for that?
16:46 < Versalife> no you need a directory
16:47 < Versalife> so you would need to mount the disk first
16:47 < rascul> the disk of that directory? i don't understand that phrase
16:47 < rascul> maybe you're asking about rbind?
16:48 < runjutsu> Versalife: I think that marks a distinction between mount and bind mount
16:49 < runjutsu> rascul: the fileystem that the directory is physically stored on
16:49 < rascul> bind will mount a directory excluding submounts, rbind will also mount submounts
16:49 < nrg> great nickname plexigras
16:49 < rascul> a submount is for example whatever you have mounted as /home
16:50 < runjutsu> :D
16:52 < KOLANICH> Hi everyone. Today there are too much applications migrated to self-sufficient containers instead of packages. Is it possible to reverse it: given a self-sufficient container with libs transform it into a package for package manager, stripping all the libs available as packages in the distro?
16:53 < KOLANICH> *too many
16:53 < rascul> KOLANICH you could also look at how the container is built to determine how to run the application without it
16:53 < rascul> though i've found only a few things that only give instructions for running in a container
16:54 < runjutsu> I don't understand, what are you talking about? Are you talking about how distros distribute their software?
16:55 < rascul> runjutsu some applications are only (officially) distributed or run via docker containers, and it can be a pain to do anything else
16:56 < KOLANICH> runjutsu: today some apps don't distribute packages. Instead they distribute containers. Not only docker ones, but appimage, flatpack, snap, lots of them
16:57 < KOLANICH> runjutsu: using containers wastes memory, disk space and cpu cache
16:57 < runjutsu> what do we think about that? Good or bad? Something that makes the IT-industry even more complex to get burn out by?
16:57 < TheWild> I grumbled once here about long compilation process of one game written in C++. On my old laptop it was taking around 15 min on a 8 year old laptop.
16:58 < KOLANICH> runjutsu: and it is a security nightmare to update the deps in all containers
16:58 < TheWild> The same thing takes about minute on my new.
16:58 < TheWild> I'd get a proper hardware earlier.
16:59 < runjutsu> TheWild: different compilation options and compilation strategies can shorten the compilation time significantly. Shouldn't take too long time to compile while you're developing the thing, release compilations generally take more time though.
16:59 < runjutsu> TheWild: for example, you should only have to compile the parts that you've rewritten.
17:00 < TheWild> I'm talking about compiling when the thing was cloned straight from github (= nothing already compiled)
17:00 < rascul> old hardware is slower
17:00 < rascul> (usually)
17:00 < runjutsu> one thing I find bad often when it comes to compiling is that only one core is used
17:00 < rascul> you can use the -j option to make
17:00 < runjutsu> make usually compiles files one by one
17:00 < TheWild> rascul: usually, but I didn't know 8 years vs modern will make *such* difference.
17:01 < rascul> TheWild it certainly can, depending of course on which specific models are being compared
17:02 < rascul> for example, we have a processors with low power requirements or diminished features (for lower pricing) that might not compare so favorably to the flagship processors of 1-2 generations ago
17:03 < runjutsu> yeah, those sucks :(. Especially for those who use the different features such as virtualization
17:04 < runjutsu> and those are the only budget options. You don't want to spend the extra cash for a work laptop
17:05 < rascul> there are certainly use cases for the lesser performing hardware
17:05 < runjutsu> it always feels painful to remove windows when I get a new laptop since I've paid extra for it
17:05 < rascul> you can get a refund but it might not be worth the effort
17:05 < runjutsu> yes. But I hope hardware will come that only use what it needs at the time.
17:06 < rascul> you can also get laptops with linux preinstalled, dell has been doing it for ~10 years at least
17:06 < runjutsu> I don't even know what to do with windows. It's just there taking up space. We don't use windows at the office anymore, I don't like it personally and none of our customers use it (I don't need to know it for work) and it isn't useful to me either
17:07 < runjutsu> rascul: I'll see if I can buy one from them without windows
17:08 < runjutsu> rascul: hey, great, they have the stuff I need, thanks for the tip.
17:10 < TheWild> does the make/cmake/configure stuff look at the dates or the content?
17:11 < TheWild> I did "git checkout" to some old version, and now I'm not sure if this will be really that version when I try to compile it
17:11 < rascul> runjutsu there are others also, such as system76
17:12 < runjutsu> TheWild: dates
17:12 < TheWild> TIAS, but the evil lies in details.
17:12 < rascul> i think hp played with linux laptops at one point but i don't think they do it anymore
17:12 < TheWild> git AFAIR doesn't care about dates, so in theory I should not have any problems, right?
17:13 < runjutsu> TheWild: see if the timestamps are updated when you checkout
17:13 < runjutsu> whether it's backwards or contemporary
17:13 < TheWild> nah, too much looking around. Let's compile it then.
17:13 < rascul> TheWild you can usually 'make clean' to ensure you don't have any cruft around, but it's generally best to build in a different directory if possible
17:14 < rascul> 'mkdir build;cd build;../configure;make' works for many things
17:20 < esselfe> My Lunar system is back on track! I have to say things went faster than I would have tought... (I had to express this here)
17:20 < TheWild> Game doesn't work. Guess what? It compiled fine, but stupid me took the configuration file from my old Windows partition, and in the file I explicitly set path to font: C:\Windows\Fonts\Tahoma.ttf ;)
17:23 < Sitri> TheWild: make very much checks the file modified timestamps.  git also does the same for a few of its functions.
17:24 < runjutsu> do you get by with 6 GB of ram today?
17:25 < SysGhost> runjutsu: in what context?
17:26  * SysGhost got a laptop with only 2 GiB of RAM. does the common work of email, office, web browsing, banking etc just fine.
17:26 < teodorg> SysGhost: via console? :)
17:27 < SysGhost> no.... using xfce
17:27 < rascul> if you don't use memory heavy things you don't need as much memory
17:27 < teodorg> SysGhost: kidding. Of course. there are lightweight window managers.
17:27 < SysGhost> my point indeed.
17:27 < SysGhost> How much ram "one can get by" depends heavily on what one expects the poor thing to do.
17:29 < SysGhost> Sure, with "only" 2 GiB of RAM, one won't be able to hold an extreme amount of web browser tabs open without things going to swap.
17:35 < mi12078> Anyone here used zram? I am confused because when removing data from the ramdisk the zramctl command reports the same space is used regardless.
17:35 < TheWild> is 35885 files in a directory (I mean no subdirs) still a performance hog on ext4?
17:38 < SysGhost> I didn't even know it was a hog in the first place. I've had folders with over 100 000 files and more, and had no actuall issues afaik.
17:39 < runjutsu> SysGhost: for running a virtual machine with linux used as a server (web and file servers for about 50 users)
17:39 < runjutsu> 6 GB of ram for that.
17:40 < SysGhost> host having 6 GiB of ram, or is it per virtual machine?
17:42 < runjutsu> host
17:42 < SysGhost> 50 VMs on a host with 6 GB of ram... is kinda... stuffing 50 clowns into a Peel P50 car.
17:42 < runjutsu> it's just 1 vm
17:42 < SysGhost> ah...
17:43 < SysGhost> one web server for 50 users rather low, 6 GiB o RAM should be quite no problems at all Unless they're gonna run insane things on the server.
17:44 < SysGhost> I guess the client VM will only have like 4 GiB of RAM, as the host need some space
17:44 < SysGhost> should still be enough
17:46 < runjutsu> I've had a non-x86 cpu once and it was a pain. I had to compile everything myself. A lot of laptops comes with weird N-cpus and A-cpus.. seems to be AMD and intel variants. No pain with those?
17:47 < compdoc> no
17:47 < compdoc> if its newer
17:49 < SysGhost> runjutsu: just curious. Why use a VM instead of having it directly on the machine itself?
17:49 < runjutsu> SysGhost: security
17:49 < runjutsu> SysGhost: a special kind of security.
17:50 < SysGhost> How will the VM add to the security? I'd understand it if one would try to split up the users into groups of isolated VM's. but... just 1... ?
17:51 < Mistell> Backups, snapshots, etc most likely
17:52 < SysGhost> Yeah... there's that. Easy to move VM's between different hosts and not to worry about hardware specific configuration.
17:52 < Mistell> Also if a second vm is desired later it's much easier to start in a vm already
17:52 < runjutsu> SysGhost: compromised VM won't hurt the host if done right
17:52 < Mistell> Since the overhead is so low anyways
17:52 < teodorg> SysGhost: easy. if you run several services, you can run them on different VMs. Thus, "hacking" one of them, won't give you full access to others.
17:53 < Mistell> ^ ~containers~
17:53 < teodorg> to others... and the host.
17:53 < runjutsu> Mistell: not if I get a laptop. It's unlikely to have virtualization CPU support
17:53 < Mistell> Well yeah but don't use a laptop for this lol
17:53 < Mistell> Oh wait did I miss that, is that the whole topic
17:53 < Mistell> My b
17:53 < SysGhost> runjutsu: just 1 VM in that case will still be as hurting as a compromised real machine would. All users are stil laffected as they're "in the same basket"
17:53 < runjutsu> Mistell: I'm about to set up a honey pot on a laptop, it's my job. But the good hardware is expensive
17:54 < Mistell> Oh yeah you betcha
17:54 < Mistell> Lookin' for a craptop from '08 right? some throwaway to use
17:54 < runjutsu> SysGhost: but the host isn't comprimised which is the main point
17:54 < Mistell> Or... a small vm on a real host
17:55 < Mistell> because if vm escaping was _that_ easy, then the world economy would have collapsed years ago.
17:55 < SysGhost> runjutsu: but the host will have other tasks except for the VM?... or is it dedicated for the 1 VM only?
17:55 < runjutsu> SysGhost: the host will do other things. The host must be protected.
17:56 < teodorg> but VMs add a significant overhead
17:56 < runjutsu> SysGhost: the host will host future honey pots
17:56 < SysGhost> ah... well then. That I can understand.
17:56 < runjutsu> teodorg: depends on the hardware
17:56 < teodorg> you can go for containers
17:56 < Mistell> ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
17:56 < runjutsu> teodorg: no, that's unsafe
17:56 < teodorg> of course, bare containers do not offer a significant isolation
17:56 < runjutsu> teodorg: keep in mind that this is a honey pot
17:56 < Mistell> but if your honeypot is service mimicry then container it up
17:56 < redrabbit> is there a way to rsync to gdrive?
17:56 < teodorg> runjutsu: please, do not teach the as* how to sh*t :)
17:56 < runjutsu> teodorg: its sole purpose is to attract hackers.
17:57 < teodorg> bare containers (docker) do not offer a decent level of isolation at all.
17:57 < runjutsu> docker is not made for security
17:57 < teodorg> but if you apply other tools to them, like cilium, then it becomes a completely different story
17:58 < teodorg> runjutsu: https://github.com/cilium/cilium
17:59 < SysGhost> heh.... reminds me when I had a raspberry Pi with 2 hard drives running a simple linux. port 22 on the WAN side was directed directly to it, and root had a simple easy to guess password. Hostname was "honeypot". I saw activity on it, and people logged on to it from various places. But no one ever did anything on or with it.
18:03 < b0tanik> Hi
18:04 < runjutsu> SysGhost: it's mostly bots that are trying to install bouncers and rootkits and stuff
18:04 < runjutsu> usually they just instantly install and spawn email spamming software
18:05 < paulcarroty> redrabbit, rclone
18:05 < redrabbit> thanks
18:13 < chewzerita> anyone use xmpp here?
18:13 < TRS-80> chewzerita: me
18:13 < chewzerita> TRS-80: do you mind chatting with me to test my setup?
18:14 < annihilator> im in the hospital with my son.  the perfect time to find the flavor linux i want lol
18:14 < TRS-80> my server requires XMPP + OMEMO encryption and will not allow unencrypted traffic through
18:14 < chewzerita> im using member.fsf.org
18:15 < TRS-80> oh cool, didn't know they had one, maybe I should sign up there one day; problem is I'm sort of in the middle of something else right now
18:15 < chewzerita> TRS-80: thanks anyway
18:16 < kazdax> whats a good way to protect my linux machine while i am online
18:16 < TRS-80> kazdax: keep a bat next to you
18:16 < kazdax> firewalls i guess is one thing
18:16 < kazdax> funny enough i do have one next to me :)
18:17 < TRS-80> OK so you have physical security covered...
18:17 < dgurney> kazdax, stay up to date, don't be a moron
18:17 < kazdax> system up to date
18:17 < kazdax> check
18:17 < kazdax> and also dont run as root i assume ?
18:18 < kazdax> sometimes i get paranoid ..thinking that maybe the hardware we are using is chipped
18:18 < kazdax> in the sense that all hardwares could be monitored ..but i am assuming that must be a big conspiracy if thats happening
18:18 < dgurney> yes kazdax, avoid using root unless you really need to
18:19 < kazdax> do i need to enable firewall
18:19 < kazdax> ?
18:19 < dgurney> it's not a bad idea to do that
18:26 < Combined2857> Does the spectre intel patch also reduce performance in windows or linux only? Also will intel develop drivers to fix the problem so as to to not use that kernel patch that reduces performance or the problem is in the firmware/hardware ?
18:27 < dgurney> Combined2857, the mitigations affect the speed of every OS, thought ofc patches may be optimized differently on different platforms
18:29 < Combined2857> thanks dgurney can the problem be fixed or only patched with loss of performance ?
18:30 < DLange> Combined2857: a non-impacting fix can only be done in hardware
18:31 < Combined2857> DLange: so with firmware update ?
18:31 < DLange> no, new hardware
18:31 < Combined2857> jeez
18:31 < Combined2857> do AMD processors have the same problem ?
18:32 < DLange> yes, AMD is the same
18:33 < Combined2857> I see, so the new processors from intel and AMD are fixed? or they still produce vulnerable processors?
18:33 < compdoc> you never really know
18:34 < Combined2857> damn
18:34 < dgurney> Combined2857, I don't think the newest generations are fixed on a hardware level yet, but I'm sure that will be done in the next one
18:34 < Combined2857> for some reason i trust AMD more than intel
18:34 < compdoc> someone could discover some new weakness at any moment
18:34 < kazdax> whats wrong with the processors ?
18:34 < Combined2857> however usually only low-end laptops have AMD processors
18:34 < kazdax> is it prone to being hacked ?
18:35 < Combined2857> kazdax: I was asking about specte
18:35 < Combined2857> spectre
18:36 < lesshaste>  I have a video I want to cut out the first 20 seconds of. That I can do but I would like the sound to fade out, rather than just stop abruptly. Is that possible with ffmpeg or some similar tool?
18:37 < teodorg> lesshaste: download and install shotcut (it is an opensource software as well)
18:38 < lesshaste> teodorg, oh that sounds interesting!
18:38 < runjutsu> "mount" shows that /dev/sda1 is mounted to /tmp/test ... it's a bind mount of /dev/sda1/some_dir to /tmp/test. Why isn't "mount" showing that I've bound or mounted a specific directory, but shows it as if I've mounted the whole volume to /tmp/test?
18:38 < Combined2857> my favorite video editor is kdenlive
18:39 < lesshaste> teodorg,  thank you
18:40 < DLange> the current estimate for new hardware that has safe TLBs etc. is in ~2yrs
18:41 < DLange> everything sold now incl. new announced CPUs is unsafe still
18:41 < DLange> (same steppings, same FW)
18:42 < Combined2857> thanks DLange
18:42 < lesshaste> teodorg, so how do you do the fade out in shotcut?
18:43 < teodorg> lesshaste
18:43 < teodorg> install it and apply that fade filter you want. There are a bunch of tutorials on youtube. Follow them
18:43 < teodorg> trust me, it is bloody easy
18:46 < lesshaste> teodorg,  ok thanks :)
18:46 < teodorg> will code in Python for food and sleep
18:47 < runjutsu> could some kind soul explain what "mount -t proc proc a" does? The manual isn't too clear to me on that
18:49 < dannylee> hi
18:49 < lesshaste> when I do convert pic.gif test.pdf it makes the gif full screen which sadly it is too resolution for. Is there some way to make it less than full screen?
18:50 < justsomeguy> You're mounting a filesystem of the type 'proc' to the nonexistent 'proc' device. Grep for "none" in the mount manpage for a little discussion about it.
18:50 < justsomeguy> runjutsu: ^
18:51 < justsomeguy> The proc filesystem is not associated with a special device, and when mounting it, an arbitrary keyword, such as proc can be used instead of a device specification.
18:52 < justsomeguy> The basic syntax for the mount command is "mount -t type device".
18:54 < justsomeguy> (I should have led with that)
18:55 < runjutsu> justsomeguy: but the proc keyword isn't just arbitrary, is it?
18:55 < justsomeguy> No, it's completely arbitrary.
18:55 < justsomeguy> People often use "none" instead.
18:56 < justsomeguy> Weird, right?
18:56 < runjutsu> "mount -t proc proc proc"
18:56 < jack_rabbit> Muimi1 y u ping?
18:56 < Mistell> Re: docker is not made for security: aside from kernel exploits, what other ways could we escape a container? (assuming it's non priv. and we're not mounting anything from the host)
18:57 < runjutsu> justsomeguy: thanks, manual makes a bit more sense now
18:57 < Mistell> Or even if not an escape, what other vulnerable aspects exist? I'm curious, I've operated with the assumption that we're pretty safe in a container.
18:57 < justsomeguy> runjutsu: Hey, glad I could help. I just happened to be reviewing the mount command when you asked - perfect timing.
18:58 < justsomeguy> runjutsu: There's a section of the mount manpage titled "Indicating the device and filesystem" that's worth reading, if you like.
18:59 < Mistell> (@teodorg)
18:59 < justsomeguy> It pretty much just covers what we just discussed in more depth.
19:02 < zamanf> is it possible to change mac address of an interface permanently?
19:03 < uplime> is it a physical or virtual interface?
19:04 < runjutsu> justsomeguy: I'll just read it all :D
19:05 < justsomeguy> ;^)
19:05 < dannylee> 8-)
19:27 < Dagmar> zamanf: Basically, no.
19:37 < Combined2857> hello, can someone please tell me an easy command to automatically enter some text at the end of a specific file ?
19:38 < Combined2857> or do I have to manually edit the file ?
19:38 < justsomeguy> Combined2857: echo "some text to append" >> somefile.txt
19:38 < justsomeguy> Make sure you type ">>" instead of ">", or you will overwrite your file!
19:39 < Combined2857> justsomeguy: wow mate you're the best
19:41 < BlueProtoman> I have a process that's spitting out line-separated records.  For each record, I want to open a subprocess that reads this record from stdin.  Kind of like xargs, but not exactly.  How can I do that?
19:42 < justsomeguy> Combined2857:  You can run the command "set -o noclobber" to turn on an option that will help prevent an accidental overwrite in this way, btw.
19:43 < justsomeguy> BlueProtoman: You want gnu parallel. It can do that.
19:44 < BlueProtoman> justsomeguy: Ah, thank you
19:44 < Combined2857> justsomeguy: at the end ?
19:44 < Combined2857> i placed that at the end and it put it in the text in the file
19:44 < Juesto> what's the difference between export and set?
19:44 < justsomeguy> Combined2857: Sounds like it's working.
19:45 < Combined2857> justsomeguy: no I mean it actually put the phrase set -o noclobber inside the text
19:45 < justsomeguy> ...
19:46 < Combined2857> justsomeguy: I'm trying to create a random 50 character string and put it in a file like this   symbols=({a..z} {A..Z} {0..9} '_' '-' '#' '$' '%' '^' '&' '*' '(' ')' '!' '@') length=50 key=; for (( i = 0; i < length; i++ )); do key+=${symbols[RANDOM%${#symbols[@]}]}; done; echo "$key" >> ~/Desktop/test
19:47 < Combined2857> where would you put the "set -o noclobber" in this command ?
19:47 < justsomeguy> Just to clarify, the "set -o noclobber" line is a separate command. Did you perhaps substitute it in place of "some text to append" when running the last command?
19:48 < Combined2857> ah, will it be only for the currect bash session? if I close the bash it will get defaulted again right ? I don't want to make the nonclobber permanent
19:49 < spare> tr -cd 'a-zA-Z0-9_-#$%^&*()!@' </dev/urandom|head -c50
19:49 < Combined2857> spare: is that a better command ?
19:50 < spare> pretty much does the same thing pulls only those characters from dev random and takes the first 50
19:50 < Combined2857> spare: is it more "random" ?
19:51 < justsomeguy> Should be pretty random.
19:51 < spare> depends /dev/random populate on boot from a static box with no ability to generate entropy wont be random but if its seeded properly sure
19:51 < Combined2857> thanks
19:52 < Combined2857> one last question guys, what' i'm trying to do here, is to automatically create a secret key for a django project config and edit it directly into /etc/environment to set it as a permanent environmental variable. So I just want to automate it with a quick command like that for easy deployment. Is it a bad way ?
19:54 < spare> dev random is blocking if you run out of entropy the program halts urandom is none blocking and will generate random output based on a seed value if there is no entropy your suppose to use them rather than trying to generate your own
19:54 < nemesys> henlo
19:55 < dannylee> hel, is lo
19:56 < justsomeguy> Combined2857: That sounds like a bad idea, but I don't know enough to articulate why. Secrets should never be environment variables, though.
19:56 < Combined2857> justsomeguy: then what should they be ?
19:56 < Combined2857> in django channel and also many articles online they always tell me that secret key should be enviromental variables
19:57 < lukey_> Combined2857: Temporary, but not permamently saved
19:57 < spare> probably better off in files with dac access you can cat /proc/*/environ and read them if you dont mount proc hidepid=2
19:59 < justsomeguy> I guess it would be OK if you can guarantee that programs unrelated to your django service can't access the contents of that environment variable. It depends on the context. I don't know enough to give you any good advice here. Maybe ask in the django or python irc channels? They should have a better idea.
20:00 < Combined2857> lukey_: if something happen e.g. server restart and you lose the temporary key, you have to generate a new one, would it be possible to decypher the old encrypted information with the new key ?
20:00 < sauvin> Also: other processes and/or users could view your environments.
20:00 < spare> think environ would only expose exported variables in child proc tho ? didnt exactly test it indepth
20:00 < justsomeguy> Storing and retrieving secrets is tricky business.
20:01 < Juesto> what's the difference between export and set?
20:02 < spare> export would set env for all child procs
20:04 < Juesto> so, it's way more system wide than set?
20:04 < Combined2857> is there a benefit of having secret key as environmental variable as opposed to just a file ? is it more difficult to access by an intruder or something ?
20:04 < spare> literally only tested three commands but export and forking a process orstarting a child leaves teh environment variable publically in proc environ if it isnt exported it doesnt show up no idea if theres other ways to get it tho
20:05 < annihilator> someone suggest i create my own linux but im debating if i should do alfs or lfs.
20:07 < Dagmar> That's not even a question
20:07 < Dagmar> LFS.
20:08 < infinisil> annihilator: Reason for creating 'own' linux? I'm just interested in the motivation for it
20:09 < sauvin> I would store keys or passwords or something in a regular DB.
20:09 < annihilator> to force myself to do something
20:09 < Combined2857> spare: can you please give me some information about restricting access with dac as you said above ?
20:09 < Combined2857> what exactly is that?
20:10 < spare> its just the name of the default uid:gid permission stuff like your users home directory is owned by it and a group
20:10 < infinisil> annihilator: If I were to want to do something, I'd code something or learn a programming language
20:11 < Combined2857> spare: which group you would only allow access to ?
20:11 < annihilator> I am getting back to linux because im tired of windows bugginess.  the windows games i play are wine and crossover compatable
20:11 < annihilator> and i used to debug but unless there is a reason for me to do something i get very lazy
20:11 < mi12078> you can do gpu passthrough on linux and still play dem games
20:11 < mi12078> and it's fun, at least was for me
20:13 < annihilator> what program you use?
20:13 < Combined2857> spare: will you please be able to write me the command to restrict access with dac ?
20:13 < Combined2857> spare: e.g. if I wanted to restrict ~/Desktop/test
20:14 < spare> depends what the context is whatever uid or gid needs access to that file realy
20:14 < mi12078> you would use qemu to virtualize windows and hand it over a dedicated gpu
20:14 < spare> whats the program do ?
20:14 < Combined2857> spare: ah so you actually would restrict it to only a process?
20:14 < annihilator> i only have one card
20:14 < Combined2857> spare: the program is just a python/django project that you would start from a terminal
20:14 < spare> yeh run that program under its own uid:gid and then make sure only it has read access to secrets
20:15 < mi12078> if by any chance you have a iGPU on a processor, that you could use for the host linux OS
20:15 < Combined2857> spare: oh thats difficult to automate
20:15 < Combined2857> spare: what is the command to restrict a file to only one process ?
20:15 < Combined2857> just an example
20:16 < Combined2857> or what is the command to run a program under it's own uid
20:16 < BlueProtoman> I'm uncompressing a very large file with line-separated records.  How can I use gnu parallel to run exactly one process for each line?
20:16 < annihilator> no graphics on the proc
20:17 < mi12078> yeah, in that case you would need 2 GPUs
20:17 < spare> the process is still run under a uid / gid context that dictates its access to all files on the system theres a fre wrappers to drop privs set libcap and seccomp now but thats probably to much su -l -c "do this" as_this
20:18 < lukey_> BlueProtoman: you could do (without paralell) "cat <file> | while read n; do echo $n | <your program>"
20:18 < lukey_> BlueProtoman: you could do (without paralell) "cat <file> | while read n; do echo $n | <your program>; done"
20:19 < Combined2857> spare: thank you, so if I wanted to run e.g. firefox in a specific uid  and gid, what would be the exact command ?
20:20 < Combined2857> and which uid would you run this program as? 0 which is root ?
20:22 < BlueProtoman> lukey_: Will that guarantee that n is a complete line-separated record?
20:23 < infinisil> BlueProtoman: Maybe xargs -P would work for you too? It takes input from stdin and can run a command on each of them in parallel
20:24 < Combined2857> spare: I think I now understand what you told me. You simply said for me to run the program as root (etc. su and then firefox if I wanted to open firefox) and simply have the file be allowed to be read only by the root
20:24 < infinisil> BlueProtoman: On each line i mean
20:24 < lukey_> BlueProtoman: Yes, except if it is too long ( around 2mb is the maximum :)
20:25 < Combined2857> okay quick question, how do I set read/write permissions of a file ONLY to the root user ?
20:25 < lukey_> Combined2857: Better create an extra user. You should only use root if you _really_ need it
20:25 < delt> hello everyone
20:26 < spare> Combined2857: things using xorg need permission to write to the DISPLAY: thats more complicated than just running a daemon as its own user
20:26 < delt> is there a way to force-mount read/write microshit ntfs partitions even if they weren't "cleanly" unmounted (ie. default and hidden "what the power button does" setting in winpieceofshit 10)
20:27 < Combined2857> spare: what do you mean ?
20:27 < delt> fuck microsoft, what an extremely shitty company :/ the entire world has HAD IT with their bullshit and their defective products
20:28 < infinisil> delt: They do some good things recently, e.g. LSP and other open-source stuff
20:28 < delt> i said it before, and i'll say it again, if bill gates had been strangled at birth, humans would have computers THAT ACTUALLY WORK NOW.
20:28 < delt> infinisil: EEE
20:28 < delt> infinisil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
20:28 < infinisil> delt: I share the windows hate with you, but I sure do like LSP
20:29 < leopard> i think you're overestimating our abilities to manage large complex systems
20:29 < delt> infinisil: it's been a constant in the past 3 decades or more, that in ANY kind of dealing with microsoft, no one EVER wins anything except microsoft.
20:29 < jelly> delt, still no way, no linux fsck, so fsck it with a native tool in the native os and shut down/disconnect the device properly there
20:30 < lukey_> delt: You can hold shift while pressing the shutdown button to cleanly shutdown windows AFAIK
20:30 < delt> jelly: so i'll need to hack the kernel source myself it seems :/
20:30 < Combined2857> lukey_: why have an extra user ?
20:30 < delt> lukey_: in windows?
20:30 < lukey_> delt: maybe mount -o rw ?
20:30 < lukey_> delt: Yep
20:30 < delt> lukey_: nope, even with -f
20:31 < spare> Combined2857: sorry half afk be better off reading a wiki page on dac probably giving a sucky explenation
20:31 < jelly> delt, isn't it ntfs-3g and userspace hack
20:32 < phogg> delt: you can use mount.ntfs with option recover
20:32 < phogg> delt: e.g. mount -t ntfs -o recover
20:32 < phogg> delt: this should be automatic, though
20:33 < delt> lukey_: good to know. i strongly suspect they added this "feature" and hid what it does deep in the control panel / settings with the express purpose of causing problems for linux users
20:33 < delt> lukey_: like, since when does a complete shutdown keep volumes mounted???
20:33 < delt> on ANY os?
20:33 < delt> anyway, it's far from the first time microsoft use confusion and false representation to push their agenda and their advantages for more control in their hands :/
20:33 < phogg> delt: there's also option 'remove_hiberfile' documented in the man page, which may help
20:33 < delt> phogg: oh, -o recover will mount it even if it's marked dirty? (ie. always, except if you futz around with windows settings) ?
20:34 < phogg> delt: "The Windows logfile is cleared, which may  cause  inconsistencies"
20:34 < delt> phogg: in which manpage?
20:34 < leopard> standard behaviour in windows now is not to shutdown, but to do a fast hibernate
20:34 < phogg> delt: ntfs-3g(8)
20:34 < leopard> to improve boot times
20:34 < lukey_> delt: You can also use "powercfg /hibernate off" in windows so it always shuts down cleanly
20:35 < delt> leopard: which (1) saves 2 seconds at boot time, and (2) causes these problems for linux users trying to mount microshit partitions
20:35 < Combined2857> Can someone please tell me how do I make a text file ONLY viewable by the root user ?
20:35 < delt> lukey_: oh, good to know, added to my microsoft notes :) thanks
20:36 < phogg> Combined2857: chown root:root file ; chmod 400 file
20:36 < Combined2857> phogg: thank you
20:37 < delt> ok, thanks all for your assistance, as always
20:40 < arteomp> Hello, is there any way to get from /proc/* or /sys/block/<dev>/* or any other place/tool information about MAX (not average) disk latency for period of time (for example max write_latency for last minute for disk sdX)?
20:41 < phogg> arteomp: I'm pretty sure you have to monitor it over time for that
20:45 < arteomp> phogg: but even if it is monitored every 1 sec it will be MAX of average latencies for every second
20:45 < SysGhost>  /proc/ retains information about running processes, even though it is hardware related at some points. /sys/ is what the name suggests: All things about the system. But, afaik, the information there is only a current value at that specific time. It does not retain information for calculations over time.
20:45 < Combined2857> phogg: do I have to press both of those commands or only 1 of them ?
20:46 < phogg> arteomp: you collect current latency when you poll and store it with a timestamp. You can then report max latency for a given interval.
20:46 < phogg> Combined2857: do you know what they do?
20:47 < Combined2857> change owner of the file to root ?
20:47 < phogg> Combined2857: you may be able to omit one or both depending on circumstances. The only way to know is for you to understand what's happening and make the right moves
20:47 < arteomp> phogg: but how can i collect current latency for every IOP?
20:47 < phogg> Combined2857: that's what the first command does
20:47 < phogg> Combined2857: if the owner of the file is already root you could omit that step
20:47 < arteomp> phogg: i can use blktrace but it will degrade perfomance
20:48 < _KaszpiR_> arteomp you know it could produce insane amounts of metrics?
20:48 < Combined2857> I see phogg so usually I would need both to restrict access only to root
20:49 < _KaszpiR_> arteomp you can look into disk io weighted
20:49 < phogg> arteomp: you can get latency information a few different ways. You just can't get aggregate information, you have to compute aggregate info yourself.
20:49 < phogg> Combined2857: If non-root created the file, yes.
20:50 < Combined2857> thank you phogg
20:53 < goldstar> On my nix box I've a primary int eth0, and a secondary macvlan int peth1. I can route any IPs on peth1 via eth0, but not directly using peth1 to upstream. Does anyone know how I can change this ?
21:02  * esselfe_ goes back onto his flightgear adventure and goes compiling OpenSceneGraph for some 3 hours
21:04 < esselfe> IRC is such a lovely lightweight protocol that fits well with my phone data plan ^^ I love the sharing connection thing, quite handy
21:05 < esselfe> why is it so silent here?
21:06 < leopard> we were waiting for you
21:06 < esselfe> right...
21:06 < alexey-nemovff> is anyone interested in Linux groups from telegram? xD
21:07 < leopard> telegram is a terrible communication platform
21:07 < [R]> sn't telegram closed sourcce crap?
21:07 < teodorg> esselfe: someone farted inside the channel and we are waiting for the one who did it to admit.
21:07 < esselfe> I bet you that OpenSceneGraph build is going to fail and that I'm going to have to dig into source again, just towards the end
21:07 < fuzzy-logic> +1 leopard
21:08 < infinisil> alexey-nemovff: Haha good one, almost thought you weren't joking
21:08 < leopard> esselfe: what are you simulating?
21:08 < alexey-nemovff> xD
21:08 < alexey-nemovff> I'm not
21:09 < esselfe> leopard: I feel I'm glancing, that's all
21:09 < esselfe> leopard: you mean I should get a real license? I don't want to spend half of my money into this actually
21:10 < alexey-nemovff> don't get me wrong.. I like a lot IRC.. I've using it for ~4 months now.. but I also use TG
21:10 < leopard> esselfe: I'm just learning about this project right now, I was assuming you were using it for something and not just stress testing your machine
21:11 < esselfe> leopard: ah ok, I love virtual flying really, it's not just some fancy compiling thing, it's really worth it to me
21:12 < esselfe> leopard: I especially like the KC-137D flight
21:13 < leopard> esselfe: according to wikipedia that's a brazilian military variant boeing 707?
21:13 < esselfe> yes
21:13 < mattfly> maybe someone could help me on my thread: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/ubuntu-63/unable-to-hibernate-ubuntu-bionic-kernel-4-15-0-22-generic-after-installing-nvidia-drivers-4175630492/
21:15 < leopard> mattfly: you might have better luck in the ubuntu channel
21:15 < mattfly> yeah thanks
21:22 < royal_screwup21> how do I efficient search through the huge traceback spewed by my compiler? For instance: running script.py gives me tons of errors - I want to be able to search for a specifc item in that traceback
21:22 < arteomp> well, found example for aggregating latency from every IOP: https://github.com/brendangregg/perf-tools/blob/master/iolatency
21:23 < [R]> royal_screwup21: redirect it to a file and then seach the file
21:35 < ajaxTGF> hm... quiet in here.
21:35 < NewbProgrammer10> For a channel with ~2200 members, yeah.
21:41 < SlashLife> Quiet is good.
21:46 < lesshaste> I have a presentation in pdf format which I need to make presentable using powerpoint. Is it possible to do the conversion using libreoffice or similar?
21:50 < phogg> ajaxTGF: if you like I can make some noise
21:51 < ajaxTGF> phogg: Heh, nah, I'm good. Join/Leave-msgs remind me of the waves of an ocean.
21:51 < arora> lesshaste: on a scale of 1-10 how close does that pdf look to ppt visually?
21:52 < phogg> lesshaste: "possible"? Of course. Easy? Good looking? Fast? Not so much,.
21:55 < lnnb> wtf does Unassigned class [ffff]: <normal stuff here> in lspci mean??
21:56 < deadman36g> can someone help me with connecting to my mac from a debian based served using sshfs?
21:56 < infinisil> deadman36g: Just ask your question, it's the best way to know if anybody can help you
21:57 < phogg> lesshaste: You could, for example, slice each PDF "page" out and render as images, then import each image to a different slide in your presentation program.
21:58 < deadman36g> ok, so I have enabled remote login and installed osxfuse and sshfs on my mac, and I can connect with simple ssh command, but from my debian based box I am wanting to connect via sshfs but am running into issues and need some guidance.  The command I am using is sshfs -o allow_other root@192.168.1.143:/ /srv/mac4/
22:01 < lnnb> i was vaccuming dust yesterday and must have bumped into my sound card because i had to unplug/plug the jack back in (it was high pitch whining frequency which was really weird), and now my sound card comes up as unassigned class :[[
22:06 < [R]> deadman36g: what is the error when you manually ssh? what is the error when you runsshfs
22:07 < deadman36g> no error with manual ssh, I think my problem may have been trying to connect to my mac as root with sshfs
22:08 < [R]> then the manual ssh would fail...
22:13 < ajaxTGF> yeh, that's presumably the issue. root-user's disabled on a mac by default (not to say you can't enable it, just stupid idea to do), ssh into it with your username and pw.
22:14 < TheWild> hello again
22:15 < TheWild> what the hell is wrong with my system that switching from DE to tty takes about 10 sec, and from tty to DE switches instantly... but doesn't listen to inputs for 60 sec?
22:16 < TheWild> what logic is behind the scenes?
22:17 < lyr3> vai curintia
22:17 < BCMM> TheWild: proprietary nvidia drivers?
22:19 < TheWild> hmm... I'm scratching my head how drivers could be the issue. The graphics generally work without a flaw, and tty and DE are the same resolutions.
22:19 < BCMM> TheWild: are you using KMS?
22:19 < BCMM> drivers are totally an issue here
22:20 < TheWild> [    1.271231] [drm] radeon kernel modesetting enabled.
22:20 < TheWild> [    1.278702] [drm] initializing kernel modesetting (OLAND 0x1002:0x6606 0x1028:0x05BE 0x00).
22:20 < TheWild> [    2.597316] [drm] amdgpu kernel modesetting enabled.
22:20 < BCMM> huh that's weird. i'm using amdgpu and don't have any problems like that
22:22 < TheWild> It wasn't happening on my other laptops.
22:33 < TheWild> well, s**t, maybe I can live without tty
22:44 < Desu> what hardware?
22:52 < TheWild> give me a little while
22:53 < TheWild> I just found out dmesg has got something
22:54 < TheWild> https://kopy.io/bCDRW
22:59 < TheWild> Dell Latitude E6540, graphics is: Mars XTX [Radeon HD 8790M] [AMD/ATI]
23:04 < autopsy> TheWild, [radeon]] *ERROR* radeon: ring 0 test failed (scratch(0x850C)=0xFFFFFFFF)
23:06 < TheWild> so what is this about?
23:16 < ayecee> 7gfrspkBgXbSOx30AWPl
23:16 < ayecee> dammit.
23:16 < ayecee> well, better change that one.
23:16 < lupine> Haxxx
23:22 < infinisil> Huh? I only see ********************
23:23  * Desu suggest not using amdgpu with old amd cards
23:24 < Desu> see if radeon works better
23:27 < jaggz> xdotool getactivewindow windowsize and move work, but don't do anything when a window is set to half-screen in kde, when dragged to the side... anyone know what is set in the window manager or, rather, how can it be changed?
23:55 < sauvin> ayecee, do you really use passwords you have no real hope of remembering?
23:55 < ayecee> keepass remembers them
23:56 < infinisil> sauvin: You better not be using a single password for everything
23:56 < sauvin> Sounds kinda iffy. I've always figured if my head can't hold them, they're hostages to fortune.
23:56 < sauvin> infinisil, I'm a polyglot. I don't have to.
23:56 < ayecee> keep your eggs in one basket, and WATCH THAT BASKET
23:57 < sauvin> Yes, because if you lose that basket, your whole kingdom goes byebye.
23:57 < jaggz> kwin scripting!
23:57 < ayecee> fortunately you can keep multiple copies of the basket.
23:58 < bjpenn> when i run ps auxwwf, does that show the threads?
23:58 < infinisil> It's much less likely that I get hacked (along with all my passwords), than it is that some random ass online service gets hacked
23:58 < bjpenn> i see a fork of a bunch of processes, which they all have their own PIDs, so im guessing those are just child processes, and not threads
23:59 < bls> depending on the threading implementation, they could be
--- Log closed Sun Jun 03 00:00:42 2018