--- Log opened Mon Jun 04 00:00:18 2018
--- Day changed Mon Jun 04 2018
00:00 < pfred1> on the bright side I won't have to agonize over which DE I should use
00:00 < lord_rob> I think Microsoft cannot try to kill opensource anymore now, but they must abide to the concept. They have enough $$$ to adapt quickly (hence github)
00:00 < lupine> yeah, no
00:00 < lord_rob> (my opinion of course)
00:01 < Dr_Coke> lol lupine
00:02 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: android stuffs like termux https://github.com/termux/termux-packages/tree/master/packages
00:02 < Dr_Coke> lord_rob I don't know if Microsoft will ever stop trying to kill opensource
00:02 < pfred1> it is in their nature
00:03 < Dr_Coke> who is the wiseguy incharge of github who sold it off
00:03 < lord_rob> sure they'd love to, but it's too late really
00:03 < pfred1> Windows 95/98, (n): 32 bit extension and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprossessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
00:04 < DLange> /part #ancient-jokes
00:04 < DLange> oops
00:04 < pfred1> Dr_Coke the wise guy that can buy and sell all of us now because he's filthy stinking rich
00:04 < DLange> ^-- Florian9028 used TCP optimizer on Windows. Success :)
00:06 < triceratux> Dr_Coke: "Update: Our sister site, SourceForge, has weighed in. Here is a tool that will import your GitHub project to SourceForge." https://developers.slashdot.org/story/18/06/03/2042255/microsoft-is-said-to-have-agreed-to-acquire-coding-site-github
00:06 < Tin^man> maybe new news for some, but Ol Bill has not been anywhere near daily operations for several years.
00:07 < pfred1> save the code!
00:07 < Dr_Coke> triceratux I was just looking at sourceforge
00:07 < DLange> triceratux: ... so we can add downloader.exe's again to your code base like we did when people still cared about SF
00:07 < pfred1> I bet the date trunk to their server is about to melt right about now
00:08 < DLange> (the missing part of that statement)
00:08 < pfred1> no git clone for you!
00:09 < pfred1> Microsoft announces that from here on in git will be a subscription based service
00:09 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 that's what I thought could happen
00:09 < DLange> https://status.github.com/ seems all good
00:11 < revel> But github != git
00:11 < pfred1> true
00:11 < Dr_Coke> revel where does git reside
00:11 < pfred1> lately i have been doing a lot of git from cz ?
00:12 < Dr_Coke> Where does the linux kernel reside
00:12 < pfred1> kernel.org
00:12 < revel> Dr_Coke: My hard drive.
00:12 < Mead> microsoft is going to own everything IBM and Oracle don't purchase
00:12 < DLange> somebody on Twitter thinks MS buys Github because that is cheaper than their Github Enterprise licenses :D
00:12 < Dr_Coke> lol revel
00:12 < dviola> this is just another desperate move from MS
00:13 < nrg> lol
00:13 < Dr_Coke> Are you serious DLange lol
00:13 < pfred1> what's next they put the hit out on Linus?
00:13 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 you mean kill him?
00:14 < Dr_Coke> or acquire him
00:14 < pfred1> I wonder if he'd go to work for them?
00:14 < revel> The former, obviously.
00:14 < pfred1> they already do pay his salary
00:14 < DLange> Clippy will be reporting build failures on Github CI in the future :D
00:14 < Mead> I miss clippy...
00:15 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 revel I really hope they don't kill him
00:15 < lupine> nobody is currently in charge of MS
00:15 < lupine> erm, GH
00:15 < Mead> Is Linus is dies, we riot!
00:16 < pfred1> this reminds me i have to pull a new copy of supertuxkert
00:16 < Dr_Coke> Who's GH lupine
00:16 < pfred1> the one I'm running now has a bug in the AI
00:16 < revel> Dr_Coke: Github.
00:17 < Dr_Coke> so if nobody was in charge of github how did microsoft manage to buy it
00:17 < DLange> "Git 2017 projects cannot be opened with Gitx 2018 anymore." :D
00:17 < DLange> aah, this will be sooo wonderful
00:17 < sauvin> My wife loved Clippy. It's one of the reasons we divorced.
00:18 < revel> lol
00:18 < pfred1> sauvin that Clippy gets around
00:18 < DLange> I'm sure you looked gorgeous in your leather Clippy costume, sauvin
00:18 < sauvin> DLange, you're a BAD BOY!
00:18 < DLange> confirmed
00:19 < sauvin> Last I'd heard, she was in Strasbourg. Maybe YOU could hook up with her!
00:19 < DLange> I buy new
00:19 < DLange> or refurbished
00:19 < Dr_Coke> DLange after I read ms acquired github it feels like microsoft put their fist inside my arse
00:19 < pfred1> STK is already on sourceforge
00:21 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 do you think github will make windows 10 better
00:21 < pfred1> Dr_Coke I don't know anything is possible I suppose
00:22 < Dr_Coke> maybe microsoft will start posting their code on github
00:22 < DLange> Please upgrade to Github 365 now. Free trial ends in a week.
00:22 < pfred1> I think they already do
00:22 < Dr_Coke> DLange I hate that 365 crap
00:22 < Dr_Coke> from ms
00:23 < Dr_Coke> pfred1 are you joking?
00:23 < bilb_ono> this isn’t linux specific but I figured you guys might know. Whats it called when you buy your own computer with its own stuff, then set it up somewhere remotely where you can access it (not your own house)
00:23 < Dr_Coke> lol because I was
00:23 < bilb_ono> like what are those buildings called where you can bring it and turn it on and it has network and electricity access?
00:23 < pfred1> Dr_Coke Microsoft has some open source projects
00:24 < nekoseam> Well I managed to get to sleep
00:24 < sammyg> connecting to ssh server and it's fingerprint is a8:d7:bla:bla:bla, how do i go and verify that this is the right fingerprint?
00:25 < Dr_Coke> bilb_ono are you trying to take the piss out of me
00:25 < infinisil> sammyg: I'll tell you right now that that's not the right fingerprint
00:25 < DLange> Github ... best experiences with Microsoft Edge :D
00:25 < Dr_Coke> lol
00:25 < revel> sammyg: Whose server is it? Ask them.
00:26 < DLange> bilb_ono: colocation
00:27 < DLange> bilb_ono: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colocation_centre
00:27 < bilb_ono> DLange: thanks!
00:28 < Dr_Coke> oh sorry that was a legitimate question
00:28 < Dr_Coke> I thought you were taking a shot at my intelligence
00:28 < DLange> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DezLsuJXUAAXMTM.jpg
00:29 < Dr_Coke> lol
00:29 < Dr_Coke> What exactly is rebasing
00:30 < DLange> Dr_Coke: man git-rebase
00:30 < mawk> turning your hydrochloride cocaine into a free base
00:30 < revel> Some git thing for making the commit work with the latest trunk?
00:31 < sammyg> revel, my server and all i have is something like this "ssh-rsa LFf7899KJkjfkJKJF=="
00:32 < sammyg> base64? encrypted?
00:32 < revel> I think you'll have to run ssh with some flag to get the fingerprint...
00:32 < revel> Or ssh-key-add or something.
00:32 < revel> s/-add/gen/
00:33 < wyoung> s/key-/key/
00:34 < wyoung> haha, never mind :) you beat me to it
00:36 < revel> `ssh-keygen -lf /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key.pub` or summin'
00:36 < revel> (not ed25519 for the RSA key, obviously)
00:37 < DLange> LOL https://monitor.gitlab.net/dashboard/db/github-importer
00:40 < dnnl> ffs WHY!?
00:41 < dnnl> greedy fools
00:46 < unixfreak> rip github
00:46 < unixfreak> or should i say micro$hafthub
00:47 < dnnl> can't even connect to gitlab
00:47 < dnnl> do they have "releases" last time i was on a page i couldn't find any release tarballs
00:47 < uplime> gitlab releases?
00:47 < dnnl> OCSP server internal error
00:48 < dnnl> yeah a release, like a .tar.gz file
00:48 < luxio> there should be a standard for ~/.dotfiles where all the dotfiles go for a user, since too many programs just put their dotfiles directly in the home directory and it makes it look like a mess
00:48 < gamma> Aren't MS one of the biggest contributors to open source projects on github? I don't think this is as bad a thing as people are making it out to be.
00:48 < dnnl> luxio: there is no standard, but some people tried to start using .config
00:49 < luxio> the problem with using .config is that not all dotfiles are necessarily config files
00:49 < Dan39> dnnl: uh isnt XDG a standard that specifies config file locations for users?
00:49 < dnnl> another idea is to not share your real home directory with every program
00:50 < dnnl> ther are attempts at standards, but no "the standard"
00:50 < Dan39> XDG is kinda the standard now
00:50 < dnnl> many programs will just use home dir and not give a shit about whatever XDG is
00:50 < dnnl> or thinks they are
00:51 < Dan39> true, many don't follow it, but its the most followed one id say
00:52 < Dan39> luxio: but yea, XDG is what you are looking for
00:52 < luxio> more programs should follow that then
00:52 < Dan39> a lot do
00:52 < Dan39> my ~/.config has a ton more in it than not in it
00:53 < Dan39> luxio: XDG specifies some other directories too, not just ~/.config
00:53 < luxio> Dan39: where can I find this? searching freedesktop.org for ".config" doesnt bring up much
00:53 < Dan39> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/XDG_Base_Directory_support
00:54 < Dan39> https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
00:54 < NoirX> how to play pics randomly in directory in linux
00:54 < oiaohm> luxio: problem is there have been a stack of different standards over the years.   The first one was every application creating . files or . directories.
00:55 < oiaohm> luxio: more of the mode developed applications support XDG
00:55 < revel> luxio: https://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/
00:55 < oiaohm> luxio: mode/moden
00:55 < oiaohm> luxio: modern support typo hell.
00:55 < luxio> tmux, postgres, vim, and bash don't
00:55 < luxio> and ssh
00:55 < luxio> and java and gnupg and audacity
00:55 < luxio> those are all in my home dir
00:56 < oiaohm> luxio: everything you listed predates XDG
00:56 < Dan39> ok, thanks for letting us know
00:57 < luxio> oiaohm: if the specification was introduced in 2003 shouldn't they have changed by now?
00:57 < revel> I somehow feel like shell rc files and ssh "deserve" to stay outside of .config
00:57 < Dan39> luxio: yep, we'll get right on that. thanks
00:57 < Dan39> luxio: you can change it yourself btw
00:58 < oiaohm> luxio: lol.    You still have windows applications attempting to install libraries in system32 even that SXS exists for even longer.
00:58 < Dan39> in /etc/ssh/ssh_config you can specify a different spot for some files
00:58 < oiaohm> luxio: basically users have to complain to application makers enough for them to bother fixing it.
00:59 < luxio> oiaohm: putting non-configuration dotfiles in ~/.config doesn't sound right though
01:00 < luxio> e.g. .psql_history
01:00 < pfred1> wow now I'm an issue on github I'm famous!
01:00 < Dan39> luxio: right the spec, there's other direcotires for non-config files
01:00 < pfred1> bext I'll be in a phone book, or something you'll see
01:01 < revel> Like ~/.local for stuff like libraries/binaries.
01:01 < revel> And manfiles and stuff.
01:01 < pfred1> man files? that's sexist!
01:01 < Dan39> XDG_DATA_HOME , which defaults to $HOME/.local/share
01:01 < revel> Basically like per-user /usr/local
01:01 < Dan39> ok im marking this as a troll and moving on
01:01 < GunqqerFriithian> then there's most software that just drops everything in ~/.$(NameOfSoftware)
01:02 < Dan39> GunqqerFriithian: most as in?
01:02 < GunqqerFriithian> and won't let you specify where to put everything
01:02 < Dan39> where's the stats?
01:02 < Dan39> where are
01:02 < revel> GunqqerFriithian: It's not "most" for me.
01:02 < Dan39> yep +1 troll
01:03 < GunqqerFriithian> too many of the software I use like droppin geverything in ~/. and won't let me specify a place to put it
01:03 < pfred1> isn't XDG another great thing from Lennart Poettering?
01:03 < dnnl> no
01:03 < Dan39> pfred1: you tell us
01:03 < pfred1> Dan39 I may have read something to that effect someplace
01:03 < oiaohm> pfred1: XDG  directory and desktop file standards has nothing todo with Lennart Poettering.
01:04 < revel> Well, there definitely are things that do that. Not more applications than there are that have stuck things in ~/.config though, for me.
01:04 < pfred1> oiaohm OK I'm cool with that
01:04 < Dan39> oiaohm: i wouldnt say nothing
01:04 < oiaohm> pfred1: I was in the early debates that created both.
01:04 < Dan39> you go to https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/ and his name is listed..
01:04 < oiaohm> Dan39: I can say it because I was in those early debates.
01:04 < Dan39> sure, maybe he had nothing to do with it in the beginning
01:04 < pfred1> oiaohm it's too bad a fire didn't break out with no survivors
01:05 < toothe> anyone following the happenings with github?
01:05 < toothe> is it true that MS might acquire them?
01:05 < pfred1> they already have
01:05 < toothe> ??
01:06 < dnnl> toothe: right
01:06 < infinisil> toothe: Just read an article about it, it's not a matter of opinion now
01:06 < oiaohm> Dan39: If you look at what he added all he has done is updated the html formating.
01:06 < toothe> wait, past tense...
01:06 < pfred1> you go there now and on the main page all it says is all your code are belong to us!
01:06 < dnnl> they screwed us
01:06 < oiaohm> Dan39: the top two wrote the standard.
01:06 < dnnl> sold out to the man, etc
01:06 < infinisil> toothe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17221527
01:06 < toothe> well, that's not good at all...
01:06 < toothe> wow.
01:06 < Dan39> oiaohm: lawl he reallly does sound like a douche. did he really do html formatting just to get his name on it?
01:07 < dnnl> nobody wants to run a legit business anymore, just want to get rich fast
01:07 < toothe> wow, that's terrible...
01:07 < toothe> well, its their choice so...
01:07 < toothe> you can't relaly criticize them.
01:07 < pfred1> dnnl can you blame them? money talks
01:07 < dnnl> pfred1: yes
01:07 < dnnl> i can
01:07 < pfred1> dnnl I'd like to see what you'd do if someone waved 2 billion in front of you
01:08 < dnnl> what are my options
01:08 < toothe> The problem with gitlab is that it isn't easily browseable or searchable.
01:08 < dnnl> pfred1:
01:08 < toothe> there's less of a community-feel to gitlab
01:08 < Dan39> toothe: and is it still built on a huge ruby system that takes a fuckton of resources?
01:09 < pfred1> let's start a gofundme to see what dnnl would do for money
01:10 < toothe> yeah, I really dislike that.
01:11 < oiaohm> Dan39: Reality is someone had to be the editor todo that bit.
01:11 < toothe> i mean, i dunno if ruby is necessarily bad
01:11 < pfred1> on or off the rails?
01:11 < oiaohm> Dan39: just because someone name is on something just like editor of a book does not mean they have done much.
01:11 < toothe> Off the rains on a crazy train, I believe.
01:11 < toothe> no, I haven't looked into the code at all.
01:11 < toothe> like, zero.
01:12 < Dan39> oiaohm: then why put his name there? put him on the like fine print "other helps" list :P
01:12 < Dan39> dont really care, anyways...
01:12 < oiaohm> Dan39: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-0.6.html  back just 1 version.   You find there was only one maintainer.   Waldo Bastian
01:13 < pfred1> where's Waldo?
01:13 < oiaohm> Dan39: the one thing pottering does put hand up for maintainer ship roles.
01:13 < Dan39> he mist have done more than just a little bit of html formatting, no?
01:13 < pfred1> he must wear a red and white stripped shirt at all times too
01:13 < oiaohm> Dan39: html formating and editor role not content creator on that standard.
01:14 < oiaohm> Dan39: basically those names are there as people who can be contacted if the standard has a problem so it can be fixed.
01:14 < toothe> wow, github is trending on twitter.
01:14 < toothe> not eveyr day you see that.
01:15 < pfred1> the Internet is blowing up!
01:15 < oiaohm> pfred1: yes the Where Waldo was a real problem with  Waldo Bastian at times
01:15 < pfred1> my old across the street neighbor's name was Waldo and it was never a problem for him
01:16 < pfred1> Waldo was cool he built planes to smuggle people out of Cuba
01:16 < pfred1> he was Fidel's personal physician before he got out himself
01:19 < oiaohm> luxio: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/XDG_Base_Directory_support  different distributions are attempt to get more applications on to the XDG standards.
01:19 < oiaohm> Really there have been a huge number of key projects that have between 1 to 0 maintainers taking care of them.
01:19 < pfred1> I love standards. There's so many to choose from!
01:20 < pfred1> what happened to Linux being the rebel's OS?
01:20 < luxio> pfred1: we could solve this by standardizing all of the standards
01:20 < oiaohm> pfred1: when it comes to where to place configurations files there is only 3 standard in the total history of Unix.
01:22 < oiaohm> pfred1: really Linux was never a rebel OS.   Linux start off implementing the posix standard and found the GNU runtime because GNU was working on replacing all the parts of Unix.
01:22 < oiaohm> pfred1: GNU has never got their kernel Hurd to work well.
01:23 < pfred1> oiaohm i have an old CD set from the 90s and it clearly says right on it, The Rebel's OS
01:24 < cr0w3> lol
01:25 < pfred1> I htink it is a Walnut Creek set if it's not theirs it's from the other outfit that made them back then
01:25 < cr0w3> I have an crapy surface RT, and linux distro that will boot from USB?
01:25 < cr0w3> *any
01:25 < pfred1> the only hting that made Surface crappy was the list price
01:26 < triceratux> cr0w3: puppy or lubuntu
01:26 < lupine> and the windows
01:26 < oiaohm> pfred1:  Thing is from the start Linux was based around standards.
01:26 < pfred1> those htings were ungodly expensive
01:26 < oiaohm> pfred1: https://www.amazon.com/Rebel-Code-Linux-Source-Revolution/dp/0738206709 what was rebel was the licensing.
01:26 < cr0w3> it was free to me, a cast off
01:26 < cr0w3> I would love to make it a linux tablet
01:27 < pfred1> yeah if you can get it ro tun Linux it'd kick ass
01:27 < oiaohm> pfred1: and as Linus puts it the developers of linux kernel attempt to get them todo the same thing is like attempting to hurd cats.
01:27 < cr0w3> but I have had no luck finding a method
01:27 < pfred1> oiaohm you can herd cats
01:27 < oiaohm> pfred1: did you ever see mythbusters attempt it.
01:28 < oiaohm> pfred1: herding cats is a true up hill battle.
01:28 < pfred1> oiaohm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxe8I5p4OJE
01:29 < pfred1> I remember when the geeks from Bell Labs came to my grammar school and gave us a presentation about lasers back in the 70s
01:30 < pfred1> back when lasers were real buck rogers stuff wit hno practical applications whatsoever
01:30 < pfred1> you've never seen a more excited bunch of geeks though
01:30 < oiaohm> pfred1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herding  that is technically not a herd.   That following a light in like a open combat formation is the closet you get cats to herding.
01:31 < pfred1> obviously lasers were invented to herd cats
01:31 < oiaohm> pfred1: basically Linux kernel development is about the same Linus can only provide some guidence and hope most of them follow.
01:32 < pfred1> Linus has the final say about every line of code that goes into mainstream
01:32 < LiftLeft> When I run import subprocess as sp; sp.call(['espeak', 'test', '-f', 'sound.wav']) in python I get "Failed to read file 'sound.wav'" How do I fix this?
01:32 < pfred1> don't believe anything different
01:32 < oiaohm> pfred1: yet distributions custom patch the kernels they provide to end users.
01:32 < alexey-nemovff> https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/3/17422752/microsoft-github-acquisition-rumors
01:32 < pfred1> well sure
01:32 < oiaohm> pfred1: and you have the custom patches in the LTS branches.
01:33 < pfred1> but i can always go to kernel.org and get the real thing
01:33 < oiaohm> pfred1: so Linus only has so much guidence force.
01:33 < oiaohm> pfred1: but most of the time they follow the guidence.
01:34 < pfred1> there's good reason Linus runs Linux he's good at it
01:34 < oiaohm> I also find it fun that Linux is not a qualified programmer but a qualified silicon designeer.
01:34 < oiaohm> Opps linux/linus
01:34 < matsaman> that's true, if he wasn't fairly good at it, his competition would utterly replace him
01:34 < pfred1> Linus knows his way around an editor
01:35 < matsaman> because that's how free software works
01:35 < pfred1> heck Linus wrote git
01:35 < pfred1> so Linux is not his only claim to fame
01:36 < matsaman> well, he wrote git for Linux...
01:36 < pfred1> no he wrote git
01:36 < oiaohm> pfred1: being a qualified silicon designer as Linus is he can get up hardware guys at lot more  this has made him really good at the Linux kernel lead.
01:36 < matsaman> git sucks and Linux is a clone of a kernel from 1970, but yeah he's cool
01:36 < pfred1> he was using CVS and everyone came down on him for using proprietary software
01:37 < pfred1> so he wrote git
01:37 < oiaohm> pfred1: Linus wrote git to replaced the proprietary bitbucket because samba guy as normal reverses everything.
01:37 < oiaohm> pfred1: Linus did not write git thinking it would last either.
01:37 < matsaman> right ...after he purposefully adopted that himself
01:38 < pfred1> yet here we are
01:38 < esselfe> Stallman wrote glibc?
01:38 < pfred1> git just made some folks millionaires
01:38 < matsaman> oh, who?
01:38  * esselfe goes mouahahaha behing his keyboard
01:38 < pfred1> whoever owned github
01:39 < pfred1> stallman wrote emacs gcc and make
01:39 < matsaman> mmm, that's probably overly generalized
01:39 < oiaohm> esselfe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_C_Library learn you history.   We are still using code in glibc that Roland McGrath wrote 31 years ago.
01:39 < matsaman> github has a pretty good service and the perfect domain name
01:39 < esselfe> whoa
01:40 < matsaman> to compare, facebook started with the most rudimentary service and the perfect domain name
01:40 < matsaman> names are useful
01:40 < triceratux> looks like M$ has been hacking on github for awhile https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/microsoft-and-github-team-up-to-take-git-virtual-file-system-to-macos-linux/
01:41 < SoniEx2> how do I set a pipe's buffer size?
01:41 < matsaman> all the VCSes out there are horrible enough that people don't want to learn more than one
01:42 < SoniEx2> the default is like 64k I'd like to bring it down to 4096 or so
01:42 < pfred1> matsaman what's a VCS?
01:42 < matsaman> and git is free software, so it's good enough for now
01:42 < matsaman> pfred1: version control system
01:42 < pfred1> I know what a VCR is is it like one of those?
01:42 < unixfreak> pfred1 │ he was using CVS and everyone came down on him for using proprietary software
01:42 < Dan39> SoniEx2: depends on the app, but i dont think it's the pipe setting buffer size. see stdbuf
01:42 < matsaman> pfred1: yeah
01:42 < unixfreak> cvs proprietary? what
01:42 < dnnl> SoniEx2: fcntl
01:42 < pfred1> unixfreak yes it was bitbicket
01:43 < pfred1> unixfreak but thanks for the correction
01:43 < matsaman> yeah because despite being more of a head to GNU/Linux than Stallman, free software wasn't really ever Linus' big goal
01:43 < CompanionCube> CVS was proprietary at some point in the past wasn't it
01:43 < matsaman> at least perceptually
01:43 < pfred1> Linus just wanted his own kernel
01:43 < unixfreak> wasn't cvs freely licensed before linux even became gpl'd?
01:43 < Dan39> not bitbucker
01:43 < Dan39> t
01:43 < Dan39> bitkeeper i think?
01:44 < CompanionCube> ah, 1.0 was GPL'd 1990
01:44 < pfred1> could be
01:44 < Dan39> the ironic part is, bitkeeper has since been open sourced
01:44 < matsaman> s/ironic/predictable
01:44 < matsaman> can't fight free software
01:45 < CompanionCube> would be a hell of a prediction
01:45 < CompanionCube> took what, a decade or so?
01:45 < Dan39> i wouldn't say that was predictable
01:45 < Dan39> it was years later too iirc
01:45 < SoniEx2> dnnl: uh I don't seem to have linux manpages for that?
01:45 < Dan39> not like it happened right after linux switched to git
01:45 < oiaohm> CompanionCube: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concurrent_Versions_System  No the history CVS is like git.   Developer make a stack of shell scripts with CVS that kind worked as a version control system never thought it was going to take off and released it open source.
01:46 < dnnl> SoniEx2: your distro lacks luster
01:46 < oiaohm> CompanionCube: few years latter CVS was the dominate thing in the market.
01:46 < SoniEx2> dnnl: I only have the pos9 manpages for it
01:47 < dnnl> anyway it's F_SETPIPE_SZ
01:47 < oiaohm> CompanionCube: history of version control systems is mostly that they either open source and have some populartity/life or they stay closed source end up distrusted and disappear.
01:48 < CompanionCube> p4's had rather long life though
01:49 < humanity> greets chaps, apllogies for nub q, but is that a proper thing to start with "Linux in Action"  D.Clinton ?
01:50 < matsaman> humanity: never heard of it, but if you're interested in kernel stuff, I'd ask #kernel
01:50 < matsaman> Linux in Action sounds kinda like a picture book =P no offense, again not even heard of it let alone read it
01:53 < zamza> does anyone know any sms transfer programs?  i need to print out my text messages
01:54 < humanity> thx
02:07 < infinisil> Alright this might sound crazy, but I think it would be pretty cool if it works:
02:07 < infinisil> You know how linux has these two signals USR1 and USR2 reserved for your own use
02:07 < matsaman> nope
02:07 < matsaman> because what good are they
02:08 < infinisil> It sometimes gets used for some very basic functions
02:08 < CC66> and a person that's not really a dev do I have a right to be mad at ms's acquisition of ms?
02:08 < CC66> lol I think so
02:08 < CC66> as a*
02:08 < CC66> github*
02:08 < infinisil> Now what if we used those two signals for sending messages!
02:08 < iflema> got themself... lol
02:09 < CC66> ffs never mind I can't even type atm lmao
02:09 < matsaman> CC66: 'course
02:09 < infinisil> USR1 is 0, USR2 is 1
02:09 < infinisil> Send lots of signals and you got yourself an arbitrary messaging protocol
02:09 < matsaman> github could only be sold because it was always for sale, though; if you want to learn a lesson, learn not to invest time/effort/etc. in for-profit things
02:09 < infinisil> Without any need for sockets or whatever
02:10 < infinisil> I don't know of any problems that could arise from sending too many signalsn
02:11 < justsomeguy> infinisil:   Sounds like a fun but useless hack. Reminds me of the spirit of this article: http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/pipelogic/index.php
02:11 < matsaman> infinisil: type it up; nothing wrong with stretching your legs
02:12 < infinisil> matsaman: not sure what you mean by that
02:12 < matsaman> code it up*
02:13 < infinisil> Ah yeah, not gonna do that, I have more important things to do :P
02:13 < matsaman> ...clearly
02:15 < justsomeguy> Is the FHS followed? It seems like most distros diverge from it. Even the "enterprise" distributions.
02:15 < Loshki> infinisil: I've only seen sigUSR used for progress reports, or sometimes to reread a config. But instead of developing a siguser protocol, just go out, buy yourself a modem, and connect somewhere at 300 baud
02:16 < matsaman> justsomeguy: not very much
02:16 < matsaman> justsomeguy: it's just some tosspot nonsense some unimportant folk put together
02:16 < infinisil> Loshki: What does that do?
02:16 < Loshki> infinisil: anything you like, slowly...
02:16 < matsaman> justsomeguy: and worse than that, it's based on weird historical reasons-for-doing-so-lost-to-time insanity
02:16 < justsomeguy> matsaman: I had a feeling. Went exploring around my openSUSE installation while reading the FHS and noticed /media was missing, and there were symlinks everywhere.
02:17 < matsaman> well
02:17 < matsaman> removable media
02:17 < matsaman> you can thank the insane folk for constantly changing how that behaves
02:18 < justsomeguy> It seems like it changes with however polkit and the major DEs want to handle it, from what I can tell.
02:18 < matsaman> and by that I mean Red Hat goobers, basically
02:18 < matsaman> justsomeguy: yes, if your distro doesn't have its own developers
02:18 < justsomeguy> Hmm.
02:18 < matsaman> if your distro does, sometimes sane decisions like ignoring upstream divergence can be ignored
02:18 < matsaman> can be made* rather
02:19  * matsaman looks at Gentoo, makes hug
02:19 < justsomeguy> Gentoo is nice. :)
02:20 < matsaman> Ubuntu for example only has enough developers to make a few things to abandon the next year per year
02:20 < matsaman> for everything else they're forced to do what Debian which they copy all their code from does
02:21 < justsomeguy> So, I guess systemd has absorbed some of the responsibilities of homogenizing the filesystem layout between debian, rh, and suse?
02:21 < matsaman> mmm, I don't know if I'd say that
02:22 < justsomeguy> (Since they added /run and made some other changes.)
02:22 < matsaman> the systemd people would certainly like to be in charge of how we all urinate though
02:22 < matsaman> unfortunately for them the only people they're in charge of are those who elect to be that way
02:22 < iflema> one job and its open source... um
02:23 < justsomeguy> I can't say I understand the systemd hate, honestly. I mean, if you don't like the init system, you can just use a different one, right?
02:23 < infinisil> Haha: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17223116
02:23 < matsaman> justsomeguy: exactly
02:23 < Dan39> justsomeguy: well, not exactly, and that's where the hate comes in
02:23 < matsaman> justsomeguy: most of the complainers seem to think they have no choice
02:24 < Dan39> you CAN, but the systemd culture is making it increasingly difficult as they are merging in other projuects or adding features of other projects
02:24 < Dan39> its easy on some distros, not on others
02:24 < matsaman> probably because GNU/Linux has _a lot_ of people coming from Windows and macOS, who somehow made it here without knowing that the best part about GNU/Linux is you are never under anyone else's thumb
02:25 < matsaman> Dan39: and the lesson there is choose your distros wisely
02:25 < matsaman> (or be fluid enough to change distros without crapping your pants)
02:25 < justsomeguy> I think that's just the cathedral and bazaar conflicting with each other. ...I wonder if that's too vague.
02:26 < matsaman> I think that's a fair comparison
02:26 < matsaman> also I don't really see the need to use those particular names
02:26 < matsaman> s/also/although/
02:26 < Dan39> well of course there isn't a NEED to
02:27 < justsomeguy> Guess I'm just rambling at this point.
02:27 < matsaman> well you _are_ on IRC
02:28 < matsaman> this is not the place for doing worthwhile things
02:28 < Dan39> heh
02:28 < Dan39> true that
02:29 < oiaohm> Dan39: most of the project systemd has merged in had trouble getting maintainers.
02:29 < matsaman> sorry excepting doing nothing worthwhile _as_ a worthwhile thing
02:29 < matsaman> as doing nothing can be that
02:29 < Dan39> oiaohm: i don't doubt it, though it is still sad to have to happen none the less
02:29 < oiaohm> Dan39: so systemd collecting projects is a sign of a completely different problem.
02:30 < matsaman> it's not a problem at all unless you've invested in them and have been betrayed (by them or yourself)
02:31 < matsaman> and even then, it'd be a sunk cost
02:31 < Dan39> heh
02:31 < matsaman> move on
02:31 < Dan39> chillax matsaman
02:32 < matsaman> nou!
02:32 < Dan39> ok
02:32 < matsaman> it's pretty hard to convey a lack of relaxation via text, best not to even look for it
02:32 < oiaohm> Dan39: and some of the issues like complaining about gnome using logind and saying that has to be systemd is totally wrong.   Consolekit2 had logind when gnome went that route just distributions are still sticking to unmainained consolekit.
02:33 < oiaohm> Dan39: so there is very big issues with maintainership around init systems.
02:33 < matsaman> well, abandoned by its upstream and unmaintained are different
02:34 < justsomeguy> Oh no, I started a systemd flame war. Not again.
02:34 < justsomeguy> :^p
02:35 < oiaohm> matsaman: https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ConsoleKit/  Yes consolekit was abandoned by it upstream it also means there is no one servicing security bugs so is also unmaintained.
02:35 < matsaman> that's pretty unlikely
02:35 < matsaman> oiaohm: what was the last version?
02:36 < dnnl> what does it even do
02:36 < matsaman> 0.4.6?
02:36 < matsaman> dnnl: nothing something else didn't do before it
02:36 < dnnl> are you sure something else did it before?
02:36 < matsaman> oiaohm: for example Gentoo has a version 1.2.1
02:36 < matsaman> dnnl: and something else before that
02:37 < oiaohm> matsaman: https://github.com/ConsoleKit2/ConsoleKit2   1.2.1 is consolekit2
02:37 < oiaohm> matsaman: gentoo has current.
02:38 < matsaman> if your argument is that version FOO of any project is unmaintained, then I will go back in time and tell my past self not to waste time with this conversation
02:38 < nekoseam> So Microsoft has purchased Github now
02:39 < nekoseam> Not surprising to me
02:39 < nekoseam> I've been expecting something like this for a while
02:39 < matsaman> because companies buy companies?
02:39 < oiaohm> matsaman: https://packages.debian.org/sid/consolekit  like gentoo has current but consolekit2 but when you look at debian you only find 0.4.6 that is well and truly out of date.
02:39 < dnnl> was github losing money?
02:39 < GunqqerFriithian> wait it went through?
02:39 < nekoseam> I don't believe so
02:39 < nekoseam> Yeah it did
02:39 < GunqqerFriithian> Shit.
02:39 < nekoseam> Well the deal has been made
02:40 < matsaman> oiaohm: sure because Debian was happy to use systemd
02:40 < GunqqerFriithian> F
02:40 < nekoseam> On Monday it happens
02:40 < nekoseam> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-03/microsoft-is-said-to-have-agreed-to-acquire-coding-site-github
02:40 < GunqqerFriithian> fuuuuuuuuuuck
02:40 < matsaman> dnnl: probably the opposite: the founders are rich enough now they don't care about it and are selling ou
02:40 < matsaman> t
02:40 < oiaohm> nekoseam: still has to get past regulators.
02:40 < nekoseam> GitLab looks nice :D
02:40 < matsaman> gitlab is also a for profit company
02:40 < matsaman> which could also be sold
02:40 < nekoseam> I doubt there'll be anything to stop Microsoft
02:41 < matsaman> there doesn't really need to be
02:41 < oiaohm> matsaman: difference gitlab you have the software to host where ever you like.
02:41 < nekoseam> wherever there's microsoft I leave
02:41 < GunqqerFriithian> yup
02:41 < matsaman> oiaohm: yeah, true, if that's what he meant
02:41 < matsaman> doesn't mean it'll be maintained if they company goes under, though
02:41 < nekoseam> you cannot trust a company that has installed backdoors in its OS since 1999
02:41 < matsaman> that's what happened with mysql
02:42 < matsaman> the* company
02:42 < oiaohm> matsaman: remember mysql also ended up forked because it source code is out there.
02:42 < matsaman> oh yeah? what's the fork named?
02:42 < matsaman> does anyone use it? Nope
02:43 < nekoseam> matsaman: I believe apple has also backdoor'd macOS
02:43 < dnnl> mariadb ?
02:43 < nekoseam> I mean why wouldn't they
02:43 < matsaman> I'm not sure apple is that smart, but the other side of that is yeah they might choose the wrong hole out of two
02:44 < matsaman> huh, I thought mariadb was technically a workalike from the same author
02:44 < oiaohm> matsaman: mariadb is a direct fork.
02:44 < matsaman> anyway, what you have there is mariadb, not mysql
02:44 < iflema> need a new term for "smart"
02:44 < matsaman> iflema: megasmart, hypersmart
02:44 < matsaman> oh wait
02:44 < nekoseam> non-brainlet
02:45 < nekoseam> chad
02:45 < matsaman> although it's pretty hilarious in mysql's case, that he sold out and then un-sold-out =P
02:45 < matsaman> but more hilarious that Oracle spent all that money on things it can't control but somehow wants to
02:46 < oiaohm> matsaman: you also have "Percona Server for MySQL" what has to be one of the worst names for a fork.
02:46  * iflema there is no spoon
02:46 < matsaman> yeah percona sounds like I don't even know
02:46 < matsaman> barganing over ice cream
02:47 < oiaohm> matsaman: https://www.percona.com/software/mysql-database/percona-server   its a full drop in replacement and the for bit makes it sound like a addon.
02:47  * matsaman shrugs
02:47 < matsaman> informed people were using postgresql before mysql died already
02:50 < oiaohm> matsaman: basically orcale took over mysql and it came 3.   Mariadb, Percona and mysql.   A lot of distributions ship with Mariadb as default instead of mysql these days.
02:51 < sauvin> I use postgresql just because I like how it "feels".
02:51 < Dan39> i bet oracle was pissed about that
02:52 < oiaohm> Really postgresql has always been highly standard conforming but its performance has not been the best.   In recent years the performance problems of postgresql are being fixed.
02:53 < matsaman> since they probably did it as an attempt to kill off some DB competition, yeah
02:53 < matsaman> but who knows, they're crazy folk
02:53 < matsaman> they own islands in Hawaii
02:54 < dnnl> hawaii would be a good place to put your villainous lair
02:54 < sauvin> oiaohm, yeah, INSERT operations on postgresql drove me to mysql for quite a while. THAT problem *has* been fixed, and I'm finding that postgresql 9.5 is zippy enough.
02:55 < sauvin> Yeah... Hawaii... the place to be if you like geothermal energy!
02:59  * dnnl orders a couple dozen pickaxes
03:22 < DynV> I have a multi-boot system with an old version of Ubuntu, I don't remember how it was partitioned but I think it was a complex one, that I've set something for cache, programs, temporary, etc, it could be only 1 for Ubuntu. I got a newer version on a USB stick which I'd like to upgrade the system but I've never upgraded linux. I want to make sure nothing on Windows get deleted or overwritten...
03:22 < DynV> ...in the process. How should I proceed?
03:24 < s0k_iT> anyone familar with WebEx here?
03:25 < stupid-1> hi
03:25 < dannylee> hi
03:26 < iflema> DynV: how old is ubuntu and did you enable any ppa's or anything weird?
03:26 < dannylee> stupid-1 its a great day t000 be alive
03:27 < DynV> 4 years perhas
03:27 < Psi-Jack> Oh, now dannylee and stupid-1 are talking to himself?
03:27 < stupid-1> i l0ve florida,,,but its a bit WET
03:28 < DynV> I'm convinced there's no PPA
03:28 < iflema> DynV: and this system is offline?
03:28 < DynV> it's the system I'm on ATM, but on windows
03:30 < iflema> DynV: and you want to "squeeze" it on one partition?
03:31 < DynV> I wat to overwrite its old Ubuntu.
03:31 < DynV> want*
03:31 < iflema> clean?
03:31 < DynV> yes, I barely used it in the past
03:31 < iflema> fresh
03:31 < iflema> k
03:31 < dannylee> all the banking are moving to BSD and LINUX..but i`m not sure about ATM
03:31 < Psi-Jack> So, I need some git submodule help. I've got my dotfiles repo that uses submodules for some of it, and some of those submodules have their own submodules. I want to be able to update all submodules and submodules of submodules and update the pointers in a commit for dotfiles.
03:31 < iflema> dannylee: so neck
03:33 < iflema> DynV: what is your issue?
03:33 < Dan39> lol
03:34 < the_document> looking for a bootcd with extundelete need it badly
03:37 < DynV> the Ubuntu is old
03:37 < DynV> no other issue
03:39  * iflema like a glove
03:43 < DynV> so, is there a tool I should use?
03:43 < esselfe> Psi-Jack: consider #git
03:43 < iflema> DynV: Psi-Jack?
03:43 < Psi-Jack> iflema: I'm a tool?
03:43  * esselfe is surprised to see Psi-Jack asking for help
03:43 < iflema> twice
03:43 < Psi-Jack> esselfe: Yeah, #git is very.... Slow tonight. :)
03:44 < lupine> submodules are enough to bring the greatest champion low
03:44 < lupine> (no, I have no idea either)
03:45 < Psi-Jack> I finally managed one way to do it.. Not sure how "correct" it is, but..
03:45 < rascul> submodules get weird
03:46 < Psi-Jack> I did a `git submodules update --recursive --remote`, then added the new submodule director(y|ies) that got updated, committed that, then I could follow through with `git pull --recurse-submodules` and that finally pulled in the appropriately linked submodules linked in from the base submodules.
03:46 < Psi-Jack> If I did the git pull --recurse-submodules without the commit, it would revert the recently updated submodules back to what's in the current base commit.
03:47 < Loshki> "Git includes its own porcelain layer" -- from the man page. Says it all, really...
03:48 < Psi-Jack> Which pretty much is in itself, meaningless.
03:52 < Loshki> That reminds me, I never did find out what Supercow powers were.
03:52 < alienpirate5> the aptitude moo easter egg
03:53 < sauvin> Supercows have superfarts.
03:56  * sauvin <3 his Corolla, it gets 40 miles per cow
03:56 < superkuh> Among other things.
03:56 < sauvin> Oh... hi, ueberkuh!
04:13 < boblamont> Is it normal for the console to use a smaller font size when a console app is started at boot?
04:13 < Kalium> boblamont: console as in plain tty or a terminal emulator?
04:14 < boblamont> terminal
04:14 < Kalium> hmm, are you sure it's starting in the same terminal emulator as your usual one?
04:15 < Kalium> that or it's loading in a different user profile because the owner of the process isn't your normal user
04:17 < boblamont> yeah, it's using a .desktop file and it's the same one I use to start it normally, and the command specifically requests urvxt. The font is notably smaller when it starts from boot, if I click the .desktop file directly, the font is "normal"
04:18 < Kalium> yeah, that sounds like it might be loading a different urxvt profile. can you check which user owns that process when it starts on boot?
04:19  * Kalium does not use urxvt, so that might be silly
04:20 < boblamont> Unfortunately, I don't have the machine with me at the moment, but I'll check that out. Is there a way I can specify a profile in the .desktop file? I couldn't find a way to change th
04:21 < boblamont> sorry, the program is cmus, I couldn't change the font size there, so I probably should set up urxvt the way I want it, but I want to be sure it's the same on the next boot
04:22 < Kalium> Ah, yeah, lemme just glance over the urxvt man page
04:23 < Kalium> you could start urxvt with the -fn argument, and give it a font to use
04:23 < boblamont> ok, that sounds good
04:24 < boblamont> thanks
04:25 < Kalium> oh, a better option might be to start it with -xrm and point it at your user .XResources, maybe
04:25 < Kalium> since then it'll get any and all settings you usually use
04:28 < boblamont> that's probably good, but I think I'll go wih -fn so I can specify the best choice for working with cmus, even if it isn't best overall
04:37 < HappyHobo> Hi ladies and germs
04:39 < the_document> is there an distro like systemrescue cd?
04:39 < iflema> the_document: your distros install cd
04:40 < the_document> iflema: looking for extundelete and systemrescue cd wont boot
04:40 < iflema> the_document: why?
04:40 < the_document> deleted stuff
04:42 < iflema> cant be that important
04:42 < iflema> other wis you could just restore
04:43 < iflema> outa here
04:44 < Kalium> people used to use knoppix, not sure if that'll help
04:44 < linux> hey all, im super new to linux, and im sort of getting familiar with alot of the concepts and all. Ive currently got Kubuntu installed and havent messed around with the desktop environment too much. Ive installed the xubuntu-desktop package out of curiosity. Im curious what possible repricussions of switching around desktop environments are, if any?
04:45 < Kalium> linux: generally, not too much, although you might find that they'll install their own file manager and stuff that might conflict a bit
04:45 < linux> also totally accidentally made my nickname linux lmao
04:46 < Kalium> so you'll have dolphin from Kubuntu and... whatever xfce uses, I guess.
04:46 < linux> I see. Thanks, Kalium. But theres no risk of them altering applications installed by me as the user, or altering files I have saved?
04:47 < Kalium> oh, mostly no, they might create some new folders and stuff but your files /should/ be safe, same for the applications you've installed.
04:47 < linux> thanks a bunch!
04:48 < pnbeast> linux, number one, using Linux doesn't mean you're immune to the need to make backups.  You make good backups, right?  Two, WMs and desktop environments are fairly orthogonal to the files you have *outside* of WM configuration files.
04:49 < linux> Oh for sure, anything remotely close to significant is in multple places. And that was what I was hoping to hear. Thanks.
04:51 < linux> I guess while im here, are there any fundamental differences between things like ubuntu and kubuntu apart from the desktop environment? apart from subtle changes to configs/drivers/etc and maybe older/newer kernel versions?
04:52 < linux> ive attempted to read through this as much as possible but sometimes the answers seem conflicting or the terminology is beyond me
04:52 < Kalium> linux: nah, they're all the same minus the changed DE. draws on the same repositories and everything
04:52 < oerheks> same sources, so no.
04:52 < Muimi1> Hey DoctorDick, did you know that Dick means king?  linux, nice name how are the alerts going?  Kubuntu has a lot of different built-in software.
04:52 < pnbeast> There are not fundamental differences between most distros, period.  Usually the chief difference is the package management and the default features/settings.
04:53 < BenderRodriguez> huh
04:53 < Muimi1> I don't think it's possible to install ubuntu on a powerpc, but I know you can install kubuntu on one
04:53 < BenderRodriguez> looks like Microsoft has ported openssh into powershell
04:53 < BenderRodriguez> god bless post-gates Microsoft
04:54 < linux> awesome thanks. would there be bigger changes of note between things like debian and ubuntu? i know debian is less preconfigured (or at least from my understanding) but generally Its the same apart from desktop environment and preincluded packges and stuff?
04:54 < linux> thats my last question :P im just trying to make sure i have a solid fundamental understanding before i dig deeper
04:54 < the_document> were does extundelete place restored files?
04:55 < the_document> i ran "extundelete --restore-directory /my/directory /my/drive
04:55 < Muimi1> requiring more configuration was a huge difference for me.  I'm a novice.
04:55 < Kalium> debian and ubuntu have different repositories and a few other differences, so, like, installing something on Debian won't always give you the same version as you got on Ubuntu.
04:55 < oerheks> CrazyTux is the distro-expert
04:55 < pnbeast> linux, didn't you hear that ubuntu is an ancient African word meaning "debian is hard"?  Ubuntu is based on Debian.
04:55 < Muimi1> I've seen people work on installing debian for weeks.
04:55 < Kalium> once you get comfortable in Ubuntu transitioning to something like debian will be smooth, same package management and so on.
04:56 < Muimi1> every day with coffee
04:56 < linux> i see. thanks a bunch everyone :) This was a way more friendly exchange than i could hav eexpected :P
04:56 < pnbeast> Muimi1, it's true that Linux is not for everyone.
04:56 < Muimi1> anyway, the community of ubuntu is pretty nice.
04:57 < Muimi1> I like askubuntu (the website).
04:57 < Muimi1> help.ubuntu.com is pretty nice.  But I saw some other linux distros with better official support websites.
04:57 < Kalium> And of course, you can't really beat the Arch Wiki :D
04:57 < Muimi1> Yeah, arch wiki is great.
04:59 < Muimi1> I think they want to restrict some of the power of ubuntu by not following suit.
04:59 < linux> out of curiousity, what is your all's distros of choice? is there a concencus around here? Most places seem to indicate linux mint or some ubuntu flavor.
04:59 < Dan39> linux: your mother
04:59 < Muimi1> mint is just a kde, right?
04:59 < Kalium> Mint is xfce or lxde or something like that. one of the light ones
04:59 < Muimi1> linux it depends on what you're using it for and what type of user you are.
04:59  * Kalium uses Arch on their laptop and Ubuntu on machines they don't care as much about
05:00 < Dan39> i cant tell if you guys are serious or not
05:00 < Dan39> guessing like 4 different DEs that mint is, fucking google it and share accurate information ---
05:00 < Kalium> Oh, Mint uses Cinnamon
05:00 < Dan39> yea... finally
05:00 < Kalium> by default, but with options for Mate, XFCE and KDE, seems like
05:01 < Muimi1> I downloaded a copy of Dan39's harddrive and used that on  most of my laptops.
05:01 < Dan39> mint offers a few DEs, but they developed cinnamon just for mint
05:01 < Muimi1> linux try ubuntu-mate.  I liked that.
05:01 < linux> Generally, XFCE is "lighter" than KDE right? so cinnamon must be similarly light?
05:01 < Muimi1> It will save you trouble later.
05:01 < linux> ill take a look
05:01 < Muimi1> When I tried to swithc my DE, my computer was destroyed.
05:01 < Dan39> linux: mint is a fork of gnome3 to make it more like gnome2-style
05:02 < Kalium> Muimi1: hmm, were you switching to KDE? I had a similar bug.
05:02 < Dan39> no, its not that light like xfce
05:02 < linux> Ahhh. I think i follow
05:02 < linux> okay im gonna change my nickname realy quickly as this was accidental to begin with lmao
05:02 < Dan39> -_-
05:02 < Muimi1> I went from Unity to Mate.
05:03 < Muimi1> And in the process, the OS was destroyed.
05:03 < Dan39> mate is gnome2
05:03 < Muimi1> I couldn't fix it, anyway.  I tried for a few days.
05:03 < Dan39> and that makes no sense Muimi1
05:03 < Muimi1> Dan39: nothing makes more sense than reality. XD
05:03 < Dan39> but ok
05:03 < abkarch> Unity is discontinued right?
05:03 < Dan39> i dont doubt you had issues
05:03 < Muimi1> Yeah, I probably took some mis-steps.  I don't know what they were, though.
05:03 < Dan39> but destroyed os? uh i dunno
05:04 < Muimi1> I think it was unbootable, and then I found a solution to boot...
05:04 < Kalium> abkarch: yep, new Ubuntus use Gnome
05:04 < Dan39> how the hell did you do that lol
05:04 < Muimi1> After that, maybe I uninstalled mate and did fix it.  I don't remember.
05:04 < Muimi1> But anyway, it was a pain in the butt, and in the end I used Ubuntu-Mate to install the full OS rather than trying to change DE's post-install.
05:06 < sauvin> I'm of the impression that * is lighter than KDE.
05:07 < blocky> sauvin: when was the last time you tried kde?
05:07 < blocky> i thought the same until recently but it seems kde went on a diet
05:08 < sauvin> blocky, I'm using it now, been using it exclusively for many years.
05:08 < blocky> ah okay
05:08 < abkarch> Anyway. Thanks a bunch for the help guys :) I gotta head out. this has been a surpringly super nice experience so far.
05:09 < Bashing-om> abkarch: unity is now maintained by the community. is available in the universe repository .
05:10 < blocky> anyone know how packets get routed *between* interfaces on linux? curious why pinging my eth0 ip shows up in tcpdump on lo
05:16 < ayecee> blocky: local addresses are routed over lo
05:16 < ayecee> though that route doesn't show up in the routing table.
05:17 < dka> Hi have installed debian 9 and I am doing `sudo ifconfig`, I have disabled ipv6, I cant find my ipv4
05:17 < ayecee> dka: what do you see instead
05:17 < dka> wlp3s0: flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
05:17 < dka>         ether b6:f0:82:c6:18:4f  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
05:18 < ayecee> yup, looks like it doesn't have an ipv4 address
05:18 < dka> why?
05:18 < ayecee> because none was assigned
05:18 < dka> I am here -_-
05:19 < ayecee> okay?
05:19 < dka> I means I have a connection to the internet
05:20 < ayecee> how might that work?
05:21 < ayecee> seems like there's missing information in this description
05:21 < sauvin> You take two cans and a few yards of string or twine...
05:22 < dka> i dont know
05:22 < ayecee> well, try guessing
05:23 < blocky> ayecee: but if i have a tunnel interface (wireguard vpn) and i ping the regular net ip through the tunnel, the packets stay local to the tunnel interface, they never show up on lo
05:23 < ayecee> blocky: they're not going to a local ip
05:25 < aaro> dka: take a look at 'route' output to see how are you connecting
05:25 < dka> yeah I am
05:25 < blocky> |eth0: 10.0.0.15 tun0: 192.168.1.1| <------> | tun0: 192.168.1.2 | what i mean is, from the righthand box and run "ping 10.0.0.15", i see the packets show up on tun0 on the lefthand box
05:26 < dka> I can see my ip with `ip a`
05:26 < dka> but I can't see the proper interface with ifconfig
05:26 < dka> now i can
05:31 < [1]n1x> house fly
05:40 < HappyHobo> newegg rocks
05:40 < HappyHobo> They cancelled two, set me up with the right one and gave me a gift card for 15 bucks.
05:54 < granttrec> where do I install programs from archives, /opt or /usr/local or /$HOME/bin?
05:55 < alexey-nemovff> granttrec: /opt is OK
05:57 < alexey-nemovff> I did installed waterfox to where firefox installs.. /usr/bin/waterfox
05:57 < alexey-nemovff> s/did/null
05:59 < granttrec> alexey-nemovff: thanks
06:00 < pnbeast> granttrec, I usually install to /usr/local/<package name including version>, then symlink binaries from /usr/local/bin.  It allows easy cleanup/upgrade later.
06:00 < pnbeast>  /opt would be equivalent, but /opt is a Sun-ism and I have no love for Sun.
06:00 < alexey-nemovff> me neither
06:01 < pnbeast> Note that my scheme breaks down when you're installing libs that will be used by external packages.
06:02 < granttrec> nope just install source stuff and want a consistent location for the binaries
06:03 < HappyHobo> I hate my 10 inch
06:04 < toothe> oh wow, linux Mint 19 is out.
06:05 < agris> What ports need to be open for a NFS client and server and for what purpose?
06:06 < agris> I am building a firewall and I've noticed NFS clients have a few listening ports
06:06 < mattfly> is there any ocr program or way to do it with common ocr like tesserac, take an image and count how many times theres a word inside it even if its rotated
06:06 < mattfly> well i guess i could just use normal ocrs
06:06 < crestfallen>  hi what is the quickest way to map the lambda character to a function key or a quick compose strategy.. on a debian machine. hopefully it can work in vim or anywhere on the system.  thanks
06:06 < agris> rpcbind, which i do not fully understand TCP/222 and UDP/111
06:06 < agris> rpc.statd TCP/40379
06:07 < agris> rpcbind UDP/610
06:07 < agris> rpc.statd UDP/646
06:09 < agris> rpc.statd UDP/33282
06:10 < agris> just to be clear that's TCP/111, TCP/40379, UDP/111 UDP/610, UDP/646, UDP/33282
06:11 < pnbeast> agris, I suspect any sane distro will have web documentation for their NFS defaults, plus there's a metric long ton of third party sites with advice.
06:38 < nekoseam> whoa
06:56 < aBound> Aha, you know what I realized earlier. That the Atom text editor is going to either be killed off or Microsoft will develop it in some fashion. Since Atom is built by GitHub.
06:56 < [R]> its the same thing as vscode
06:56 < [R]> and vscode is superior...
06:58 < aBound> While VSCode is much better performance wise/user interface. It's just another editor on the list.
07:00 < aBound> I believe it's already been confirmed that MS bought GitHub.
07:01 < [R]> i saw an article on some reputable news site
07:01 < [R]> it'll be announced tomorrow
07:01 < aBound> GitLab is reporting it.
07:01 < aBound> https://about.gitlab.com/2018/06/03/microsoft-acquires-github/
07:01 < [R]> yeah, i saw t hat
07:02 < aBound> I heard a few people are moving to GitLab as well.
07:02 < aBound> Knowing Microsoft will probably mess it up.
07:03 < [R]> i believe gitlabs free features are better than githubs free features
07:04 < aBound> Never really used it but I'd use git to grab a few plug-ins for vim through github.
07:05 < aBound> I wonder how that's going to work out now.
07:06 < [R]> what do you mean
07:06 < aBound> Oops, I meant to say I'd use vim-plug which grabbed plug-ins directly from github.
07:07 < aBound> I'd figured some people are moving there repositories over to GitLab. But then again, I'm just taking a guess.
07:08 < hexnewbie> Damn. I was almost ready to publish my project on Github, clearing 70% of the copyright issues yesterday. And they got ahead of me.
07:09 < aBound> Oh noes...
07:11 < aBound> I want an iced coffee ha.
07:12 < hexnewbie> Now I will have to publish to gitlab, and surrender to having my ‘Blame’ being named ‘Annotate’
07:12 < Boyeto> I have an SSD with Antergos installed on it UFEI. My new motherboard is being a little cuntly regarding ufei installation.
07:12 < [R]> hexnewbie: they reverted that stupid change
07:12 < Boyeto> Is it possible for me to just plug a usb drive in
07:13 < Boyeto> and install the ufei bootloader onto that?
07:13 < [R]> Boyeto: try it and see
07:13 < Boyeto> (this way when I swap motherboards, I can just bring the usb drive with me)
07:13 < Boyeto> [R]: I've tried a lot of things, I just wanted to know if this is something that I can do
07:13 < Boyeto> or if I'm on the wrong track
07:13 < [R]> Boyeto: how do we know what you are capable of doing...
07:14 < Boyeto> ah, you'r being a smartass
07:14 < sauvin> This isn't the first time I've heard of somebody moving to gitlab because of the news.
07:15 < aBound> I shall return. :P
07:15 < sauvin> I think maybe the folks at gitlab need to brace for impact.
07:16 < sauvin> And somebody needs to tell the folks at sabayon that they probably need to move.
07:17 < [R]> or just give up
07:17 < [R]> lol
07:18 < pingfloyd> never give up
07:18 < pingfloyd> unless you're doing something really stupid
07:18 < [R]> you mean like making a precompield gentoo?
07:20 < pingfloyd> yeah
07:20 < pingfloyd> that kind defeats the whole purpose
07:22 < pingfloyd> the whole point of gentoo is for automated compiling so that you have granular control over how things are configured and their optional depenencies.
07:22 < nevodka> install
07:22 < nevodka> gen1
07:22 < hexnewbie> I do kind of want a stable precompiled distro (like Debian Stable or Debian Old Stable), whose packaging system has ebuild-like functionality, where it can install and automatically upgrade source packages from the unstable or testing branch. Without you having to do ‘apt-get source’ and then build again and again manually.
07:23 < pingfloyd> if I end up having to compile something, I'll usually go upstream at that point
07:24 < pingfloyd> I figure since I'm going through the hassle, I might as well run the author's latest stable version
07:24 < hexnewbie> pingfloyd: Yeah. That's also what I do. But wasn't when I was using Gentoo and everything had a ebuild which I could just unmask to get a newer version.
07:25 < pingfloyd> also, I usually run what I compile from its src dir in my home
07:25 < hexnewbie> Point is, the package *is* in the repositories, the version I need is in the repositories, but I can't use it because compiling the upstream is easier, because Debian is not Gentoo.
07:25 < pingfloyd> some stuff I have to actually install though
07:25 < spare> you can just point SRC_URI to upstream and have ebuilds nearly auto install with tracking the only thing you ever need to add is cmake or configure options in src_configure
07:25 < pingfloyd> hexnewbie: I know, I already agree
07:26 < hexnewbie> And fine-tuning the dependencies for some packages was also nice (although I did tune them quite a bit for all of them)
07:26 < cmj> you used to be able to do svn/foo builds by marking packages with -xxxx versions? i forget
07:27 < spare> -9999 normally points to git repos or upstream none release versions
07:27 < cmj> ebuilds, not packags
07:27 < cmj> yeah ok
07:29 < pingfloyd> hexnewbie: so what I'll do in debian for instance, is build an "equivs" package for what I compile from upstream.  That way apt takes it into account.
07:30 < pingfloyd> this has a second upshot in that that dummy package will also manage your build and runtime dependencies for it.
07:35 < aBound> Am back.
07:36  * lnnb makes note of aBound's rearrival
07:36  * aBound noted 
07:36  * aBound drinks iced coffee 
07:43 < Furai> #movetogitlab ?
07:52 < aBound> Swoosh, I'm off to Wonderland.
07:55 < Paxton7085> Howdy
07:56 < Paxton7085> This is Happyhobo.
07:56 < Paxton7085> It refused to rejoin with my regular nick.
07:58 < jim> it?
07:58 < Paxton7085> freenode
07:58 < Paxton7085> I did /nickserv release that name that password
07:58 < Paxton7085> Now it says channel or name is unavailable and has for the past 15 minutes.
07:58 < jim> I think you should talk to a staffer
07:59 < Paxton7085> sauvin?
07:59 < jim> I do understand what you're saying... can't look into it or do anything else...
07:59 < pingfloyd> Paxton7085: use /recover
07:59 < jim> no,
07:59 < Paxton7085> It won't even let me get that far pingfloyd
08:00 < jim> pingfloyd, not no to you :)
08:00 < sauvin> Paxton7085, what exact command are you using that triggers the error?
08:00 < Paxton7085> jim I used a vicious command talking to sauvin not knowing he was an op.  I literally cowered into a corner.
08:01 < Paxton7085> sauvin:   I'm being good.  It's just logging in and it says channel and name unavailable it won't be bring up a chat window.
08:01 < sauvin> "it"?
08:01 < pingfloyd> Paxton7085: I think I've ran into the same issue before, I'm just trying to remember what I did to get past that
08:01 < Paxton7085> pidgin
08:02 < sauvin> Oh, pidgin. I don't know anything about that. Any chance of using a real client?
08:02 < pingfloyd> Paxton7085: when you used release did you use the syntax /release nick password?
08:02 < Paxton7085> I've always used pidgin, it's simple and basic
08:02 < sauvin> And it hides too much while trying to figure out what's going on.
08:02 < pingfloyd> I mean: release nick password
08:02 < Paxton7085> pingfloyd:  it won't even open a window that I can type such a command in.
08:03 < DoctorDick> Ha pidgin
08:03 < Paxton7085> Ha GAIM
08:03 < DoctorDick> I used to use that
08:03 < sauvin> Me, too, but the thing is, it's not 1998 anymore.
08:03 < pingfloyd> Paxton7085: try this.  /msg nickserv release <yournick> <yourpass>
08:03 < DoctorDick> For pidgin I think you had to use /quote
08:04 < DoctorDick> Then the command
08:04 < Paxton7085> In my heart I still use GAIM because pidgin lied to me, pidgin never gave me my webcam viewing for yahoo.
08:04 < pingfloyd> weechat is the best client
08:05 < sauvin> That depends on who you ask. I kinda like hexchat (most of the time)
08:05 < DoctorDick> I use smoke signals
08:06 < Paxton7085> DoctorDick:  damn menthol garbles them so I gave up on them.
08:06 < pingfloyd> as an extra bonus it has good documentation
08:07 < hexnewbie> Smoke signals are good, until the rx AI of the Linux driver fails. And the tx code of the driver has a firestarting bug.
08:07 < hexnewbie> Overall, FreeBSD has much better support for smoke signals, and won't burn down your house using them.
08:08 < DoctorDick> What about for yodelling?
08:08 < pingfloyd> I can see a reason for switching from Windows or MacOS to FreeBSD, but I can't see any reason to switch from gnu/linux to FreeBSD.
08:09 < pingfloyd> systemd is almost a reason though
08:09 < pingfloyd> just not enough of a deal breaker to motivate me
08:09 < hexnewbie> / on ZFS?
08:09 < Paxton7085> Which do y'all like better?
08:09 < pingfloyd> yeah, better ZFS support is one
08:10 < pingfloyd> anything else you can think of?
08:11 < hexnewbie> Now that we have nftables with maps and sets, not really. But I have only used FreeBSD for those two things, so I'm probably missing something. :)
08:11 < Happyhobo> Paxton feels like the present because the books are set in Paxton City, IN and Paxton City, NC but HappyHobo has been around for 14 years.
08:11 < pingfloyd> what about jails?
08:11 < pingfloyd> are jails very relevant anymore?
08:11 < DoctorDick> Don't commit crimes
08:12 < hexnewbie> Aren't containers like jails on steroids, like build your own custom jail thing from scratch using, with Linux providing all the lego pieces?
08:12 < Happyhobo> I'm confused.\
08:12 < pingfloyd> that's my understanding too.  Also there's VMs, which todays hardware handles great.
08:12 < oiaohm> pingfloyd: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#Detailed_release_history  long term I don't know with ZFS particularly with orcale starting to do closed addons to ZFS again.
08:13 < Paxton7085> Hey jim bcm43*** will not work with Antergos.  I went to install Antergos on the baby beast and it wouldn't start the internet right out of the box.  I had newegg cancel that one and I now have a dual band intel 6205 on the way.
08:13 < pingfloyd> one video I watched recently, has gotten me to think a bit differently about how much optimal for performance really matters as much.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg4U4r_AgJU
08:13 < oiaohm> hexnewbie: nftables not so much the start of bpfilter in 4.18 using a proper JIT for network filtering in the Linux kernel does level the different between Linux and Freebsd firewalling a lot.
08:14 < Paxton7085> pingfloyd:  have you shared that before recently
08:14 < pingfloyd> Paxton7085: no
08:15 < Paxton7085> I know you have.  I've seen that before.  That exact statement.
08:17 < hexnewbie> oiaohm: Hm, is the rule overhead big enough to make a difference? I was never able to detect a difference there. But I've seen *linear* rules (vs. maps and sets) impact performance catastrophically.
08:17 < pingfloyd> also has reaffirmed my later in life mentality of pragmatism and simplicity above practically all else.  Like if we make it from point A to B and it wasn't the most ideal journey, but we got there quickly with minimal stress and headache, is that so bad?  Especially if we're only going to make the trip once or twice.
08:18 < sauvin> FreeBSD used to be a lot more solid and a lot faster than Linux, but I don't think that's true anymore.
08:18 < pingfloyd> Paxton7085: probably deja vu
08:18 < hexnewbie> My previous ISP (purchased by my current one) at some point had ping times like 3-4 seconds because of linear rules, before they switched to FreeBSD (although I did make a workaround for them using iptables, because I couldn't bear the ping times).
08:19 < Paxton7085> I have issues with disassociative states, deja vu hits me like a ton of bricks.
08:19 < sauvin> Yeah, three or four seconds is stratospheric even for Comcast.
08:20 < pingfloyd> sauvin: linux pretty much caught up with it, and left it in the dust at one point
08:21 < Paxton7085> pingfloyd:  I get to see music
08:21 < hexnewbie> You usually don't notice the horror of it, because you have your linear rules in nat (where only the first packet is affected), or in filter but after accepting ESTABLISHED connections. However, try marking all individual user connections before CONNMARK was available. Horrors ensue. It works with 10 clients, then when you scale it... Ouch.
08:21 < oiaohm> hexnewbie: when you get into bpfilter you can start offloading into the network card to reduce the traffic over the pci-e.   Proper jit allows you to place the firewall more effectively in the hardware.
08:23 < oiaohm> hexnewbie: think about it if you can have you white list rules processed by the network card that huge stack of stuff cpu never has to bother about.
08:25 < oiaohm> hexnewbie: nftables in most cases at best only increased perform by 20%  bpfilter can over double the performance running the same firewall rules.
08:25 < Paxton7085> jim do all intel cards use the iwlcfg mod?
08:26 < jim> dunno
08:26 < pingfloyd> Paxton7085: someone posted this in some channel the other night though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
08:26 < jim> maybe they can tell you on ##networking or ##hardware
08:27 < pingfloyd> you know it's an old film when it is titled "UNIX: Making Computers Easier To Use"
08:30 < Paxton7085> Thanks for y'all's patience.
08:33 < pankaj_> Searching for some free linux coursese
08:34 < pankaj_> Everywhere paid for learning. Feeling misrable right now
08:35 < liamliamliam> hello all
08:37 < Spookan> pankaj_: What do you want to learn?
08:37 < Paxton7085> night folks
08:37 < liamliamliam> hello fellow pals
08:40 < pankaj_> Spookan: I went to linuxfoundation.org. they have many awesome courses but I am searching for job. I would have paid to learn but....
08:44 < liamliamliam> linux foundation is aweome
08:47 < pankaj_> liamliamliam: how do you learned from there. What course you did in what pricing range?
08:47 < liamliamliam> i think i only took the free courses
08:51 < pankaj_> liamliamliam: I also followed free courses but i want to learn more. Unfortunately i do not have that sum of money. Like understanding linux kernel, writing device driver etc
08:52 < [R]> just read the code of existing divers
08:53 < pingfloyd> use the source
08:54 < liamliamliam> pankaj_have you tried coursera?
08:56 < Rembo> hello everyone, i want to redirect an apache link to another, how can i do it? ie: www.example.com/something/test1 to www.example.com/test2/
08:56 < pankaj_> liamliamliam: sorry. My application for chat just crashed. Can you give advice about learning those stuff.
08:57 < liamliamliam> coursera.org
08:57 < liamliamliam> i think.
08:57 < liamliamliam> or .com
09:09 < wolfmeist> Hey, I recently upgraded from Fedora 27 to fedora 28, now the system only boots to emergency mode. I ran journalctl -xb after logging in, it gives an error, etc/boot/efi couldn't be mounted.
09:09 < Desu> -x just adds noise in most cases
09:10 < Desu> anyway, just continue the boot and see if the rest works
09:12 < wolfmeist> It didn't work, I tried the options shown in the emergency mode, didn't work. Also the system is booting fine when I select the older version of fedora(27, different kernel) from boot options.
09:14 < wolfmeist> It also shows that all the drives are mounted, it's dual booted with Windows 10. Can someone give some views on what might be going wrong?
09:18 < Desu> post actual errors and what you did, not just "didn't work"
09:19 < password2> hi , i have a flash , that may have really important info on , but it does not seem to have any partitions , how do i make a verbatim copy and see if there is readable data?
09:19 < Desu> when booting 28, can you mount the esp by hand in the rescue shell?
09:19 < Desu> password2: dd
09:19 < Desu> password2: if you have really important data on it then send it off to someone professional
09:20 < Desu> also, usb sticks and sd cards often don't have any partitions, and just have a fs directly on the device
09:20 < Desu> that is quite normal
09:20 < password2> Desu: were too cheap :D
09:20 < password2> the flash media is fine
09:21 < password2> well i can't see a partition
09:21 < password2> yet I'm told there is files on it , so either there is no longer files on it , or the windows embedded machine that made it did something weird
09:21 < agris> How can i debug an NFS server stalling after sending 250-500 megabytes of data?
09:22 < password2> fdisk -ul shows no partitions
09:22 < agris> (kernel mode NFSd)
09:22 < password2> wow , dd is running slow
09:22 < Desu> bs=4M can help
09:22 < Desu> flash devices usually are damn slow though
09:22 < password2> like only 10Mb copied
09:23 < agris> basicly what happens is large transfers stall after about 200 megabytes of data and no network activity occurs. after about 20 seconds the transfer continues
09:23 < Desu> password2: `file /dev/whatever`
09:23 < Desu> eg sdc, not sdc1
09:24 < CoJaBo> How concerned should I be about a message like this from rsync?  WARNING: old/a.mp4 failed verification -- update retained (will try again).
09:24 < password2> yeah , dd bs =4M if=/dev/sdb/  of=~/backupimg
09:24 < Desu> file /dev/sdb
09:24 < password2> maybe running it through a virtual is slowing it down
09:24 < Desu> as in, the literal command file
09:25 < Desu> "a virtual" ?
09:25 < password2> oh , what does that do?
09:25 < Desu> if it is vbox, it only does usb 1.1 by default
09:25 < password2> yes , the linux pc is a oracle vitrtualbox
09:25 < Desu> man file
09:25 < Desu> if you have the non-free addons you can get 2.0 and 3.0 support
09:26 < password2> file says " /dev/sdb: block special (8/16)"
09:26 < password2> ok , were upto 200Mb backedup
09:27 < password2> og 8GB
09:27 < password2> lol
09:27 < Desu> er.. file -s /dev/sdb
09:28 < password2> it says 'data'
09:32 < password2> ok
09:32 < password2> this is weird , will dd copy the whole flashdrive?
09:32 < password2> because it made only an 800mb file?
09:33 < password2> er , 400Mb file
09:34 < mouses> password2: depends how you use dd - it will only copy what you tell it to
09:34 < password2> I used : dd bs =4M if=/dev/sdb/  of=~/backupimg
09:34 < password2> minus the space at bs
09:35 < pingfloyd> that will copy the whole device
09:35 < mouses> password2: that will copy everything in that single partition (/dev/sdb)
09:35 < mouses> oh wait
09:35 < password2> dd bs=4M if=/dev/sdb  of=~/backupimg
09:35 < mouses> right
09:35 < mouses> that will copy everything in that device (/dev/sdb)
09:35 < pingfloyd> should be the size of the device unless you're compressing it
09:35 < mouses> sorry my brain saw sdbb
09:35 < password2> but that should be the size of the flash itself , right?
09:36 < pingfloyd> yep
09:36 < pingfloyd> in this case
09:36 < mouses> password2: generally use - mount the created image and compare it?
09:36 < pingfloyd> you don't have to mount
09:36 < mouses> diff -r dir1/ dir2/
09:36 < pingfloyd> you could run a hash against /dev/sdb and one against backupimg and you know it is good if they have identical hashes.
09:37 < Desu> check dmesg for errors
09:37 < Desu> and did dd say it stopped due to errors?
09:37 < password2> i noticed errors now
09:38 < password2> Input/Output error
09:38 < password2> 79+4 records in and out
09:38 < pingfloyd> what's the exact error message
09:38 < Desu> send it off to someone professional, if you are lucky it is just the controller thta is bad
09:38 < Desu> but somewhat unlikely
09:38 < Desu> you can use dd_rescue to try to get more data off it
09:38 < Desu> but note that reading it might damage it more
09:38 < password2> i just think maybe file or something else was interfereing
09:39 < password2> running again the file is bigger
09:39 < password2> idk if the oracble usb emulation/passthrough is interfereing
09:40 < supernovah> what program can I use to make a session with tcp with where bytes are sent as I type
09:40 < password2> lol , now it got to 81+4 records
09:40 < pingfloyd> supernovah: nc
09:41 < supernovah> pingfloyd: it only sends when I press enter
09:41 < supernovah> or send ^J I think
09:41 < supernovah> also can't sent control characters like ^C
09:42 < runtugen> password2: is there any particular reason you have to take it through to a VM?
09:43 < password2> my base os is windont
09:43 < pingfloyd> boot a live usb
09:43 < password2> i can take it home and plug it into my server , but I don't like to take work home out of principal
09:43 < password2> pingfloyd: then I can't do my normal job
09:44 < pingfloyd> password2: how do you get around that if you're on call and have to remote in?
09:44 < password2> i'd rather take it home
09:44 < runtugen> you mentioned oracle, so I'm assuming vbox -- does the vbox logs report any errors?
09:44 < password2> remote in where?
09:45 < f1uffyp0ny> Linux is a scam.
09:46 < pingfloyd> f1uffyp0ny: how?
09:46 < f1uffyp0ny> I can't even troll right now, too sad :(
09:47 < runtugen> notmike: heh :-)
09:47 < pingfloyd> no doubt
09:50 < Triffid_Hunter> password2: you want conv=sync,noerror for imaging a disk that's dying
09:51 < Triffid_Hunter> and probably a much smaller block size so you lose less data to read errors
09:55 < password2> Triffid_Hunter: thanx , I'
09:55 < password2> Triffid_Hunter: thanx , I'll try that now
09:58 < password2> ok ,lets see if the con=sync,noerror works for me
10:21 < logithack> can anyone report on negative experiences with linux and NVIDIA graphics cards, particularly the 940MX?
10:21  * vlt giggles seeing "hunter", "2" and "password" on one irc line
10:22 < Triffid_Hunter> logithack: nvidia has been rock solid for me on linux for the past decade, never tried a 940MX specifically but I've no reason to think there'd be any specific problem with it
10:23 < Triffid_Hunter> running a 1060/6G at the moment, smooth as butter
10:23 < logithack> very good to hear. i'm thinking about getting a new laptop, and ive found an Acer laptop with an i3-6006U and a 940MX cos that would allow me to run simple games like Minecraft, too.
10:24 < michael2> does any one know how to debug syslinux not loading a vesamenu.c32 file?
10:24 < Triffid_Hunter> logithack: with laptops it's always good to ask how the linux support is on that specific model, sometimes there's really random stuff that doesn't work right like fingerprint readers or fan speed controls or RFkill or things like that
10:24 < logithack> will battery life be considerable lower if a dedicated graphics card is in there? (if not gaming but only surfing/doing office work in battery mode)
10:25 < logithack> im asking cos ive never had a laptop with a dedicated graphics card
10:25 < dka> I have issue using keyboard layout 'English (US, alternative international)', I expect to be able to write accent using key ' and key ALT, but it does not work. For example, I can't write properly "Élève", Instead I am writing 'El`eve , why and how can I correct this?
10:25 < Triffid_Hunter> logithack: I've heard that laptops exist which switch dedicated graphics on and off as needed.. took the linux guys a while to work that one out but there's stuff for it now although I've no idea how well it works
10:25 < pingfloyd> main thing is the graphics and wifi chipsets
10:25 < logithack> and it should also last long in battery mode when doing tasks like surfing the web
10:25 < logithack> Triffid_Hunter: ah, thats neat.
10:26 < logithack> i'll read up a little on whether anybody has ever experienced problems with that particular laptop model
10:26 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: Élève?
10:26 < pingfloyd> I'd go intel graphics
10:26 < dka> Yes, it is french
10:26 < dka> I use ISO US layout to write also in french
10:26 < dka> it is my default keyboard
10:26 < pingfloyd> failing that, AMD
10:26 < logithack> but if it turns out to be good, i might invest a little more and get that one since i use it a lot and playing one or two rounds of Minecraft here and there would be very pleasant
10:27 < logithack> pingfloyd: no NVIDIA + linux for you?
10:27 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: altgr+e works for é but apparently need dead key for è using altgr+`, e with altgr-intl. how do you want to type it?
10:27 < pingfloyd> logithack: nope
10:27 < dka> I expect to type : ALT + ' , then E , and have  É
10:27 < logithack> can you report on individual cases where that combination caused you problems?
10:27 < pingfloyd> logithack: if you go nvidia, prepare to be dependent on their proprietary drivers
10:28 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: that works for me just as well as altgr+e
10:28 < logithack> pingfloyd: well, i'm not planning on insisting on open-source software for my graphics drivers, so that wont hurt much
10:28 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: éé <-- first is altgr+', e, second is just altgr+e
10:29 < pingfloyd> logithack: it can if they're lagging behind the kernel and you're running a bleeding edge dist
10:30 < dka> Do you know why it does not work for me ?
10:30 < pingfloyd> logithack: with ati/amd you used to be more dependent too.  Many times their proprietary drivers had regressions.  And they were very bad at lagging behind.
10:30 < dka> 'e`e`a~e
10:30 < Triffid_Hunter> nvidia drivers seem to follow the kernel closely enough, and I am on a bleeding edge dist. sometimes I have to stay one minor version back from bleeding edge for a couple weeks, but that's no worries at all
10:30 < logithack> pingfloyd: i'll search the web if i can find anything negative about it. if i dont, my best bet will probably be to just get it and test it as intensively as possible. if something occurs, send it back.
10:30 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: what does setxkbmap -print say?
10:31 < dka> https://paste.gnome.org/p2ywf0mcw
10:31 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: mine looks like https://bpaste.net/show/1b013712f198 - default us/altgr-intl, hold capslock for greek, and it doesn't show my fcitx setup where I ctrl+space for chinese
10:32 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: ah you're using alt-intl rather than altgr-intl
10:32 < dka> I use the alt right to space bar
10:32 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: yeah but alt-intl is different to altgr-intl, esp in the way dead keys are handled
10:33 < dka> dka@dev-01:[~]: echo $LANG
10:33 < dka> en_US.UTF-8
10:33 < dka> Triffid_Hunter, the alt right to space bar is altgr
10:34 < dka> Oh
10:34 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: I know that. The point is your keyboard is set for alt-intl but mine is set for altgr-intl which is a different layout, and you want yours to do what mine does, so change yours to altgr-intl :P
10:34 < dka> how can I change the xkb_symbols?
10:34 < pingfloyd> I guess System 76 is moving their manufacturing from Hong Kong to Denver, CO
10:34 < dka> Triffid_Hunter, normally this layout set altgr
10:34 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: setxkbmap can change 'em at runtime. I have a file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ to set mine at xorg startup
10:34 < dka> cat you cat me ?
10:34 < dka> can*
10:36 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: https://paste.gnome.org/pcc1awfkf although you'll probably want to change gr for fr, and consider changing caps_switch to whatever the toggle one is called
10:36 < logithack> Triffid_Hunter: btw, a little off-topic, but that just popped to my mind again: the laptop with the 940MX i was talking about, i saw that on a website and they said the laptop had a graphics resolution of 1366x768. i thought if a laptop has a 940MX built inside, its highly unlikely to have only 1366x768. other websites said its got 1920x1080. how likely do you think is it that it will be lower than full hd?
10:36 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: and make sure your DE isn't overwriting your keyboard config :P
10:36 < Triffid_Hunter> logithack: the graphics card doesn't determine how many pixels the display panel has
10:37 < Triffid_Hunter> logithack: if they put a 768p panel in, that's how many pixels it has and the graphics card just has to deal with it
10:37 < pingfloyd> ttps://linux.slashdot.org/story/18/01/22/0648227/linus-torvalds-calls-intel-patches-complete-and-utter-garbage
10:37 < logithack> Triffid_Hunter: i was expecting that. but it would be rubbish to build a 940MX in a laptop and then use a display with a low resolution
10:37 < supernovah> IS there a way to check if a socket is in close_wait (that the remote issues fin) because if I do while(read() != -1) it never seems to fail or give an error...
10:37 < logithack> ill do some more research and if doubts remain ill contact their support and ask them to check it.
10:37 < logithack> since other websites state 1920x1080
10:38 < Triffid_Hunter> logithack: it's pretty common.. lots of folk check amount of ram, cpu MHz and gpu but not other important numbers like ram speed or display res :P
10:38 < Triffid_Hunter> logithack: well perhaps there's multiple models of the same laptop around?
10:39 < logithack> Triffid_Hunter: i'm afraid thats the case. they all have very similar hardware specs, but the website i originally found it on doesnt state the exact model number. ive just found other websites though and just go for their models if theyre in my budget.
10:39 < Triffid_Hunter> logithack: if you wanna be sure, ask the seller you're ordering from, and if it's wrong you have grounds to complain and return
10:39 < logithack> Triffid_Hunter: exactly. thanks for your assistance!
10:40 < kurahaupo_> supernovah: FIN is the socket equivalent of EOF, so you'll never get an error, just zero length on any read
10:41 < dka> I want to understand why do I need this
10:41 < ale_x> Anyone run a lfs system full time?
10:41 < supernovah> kurahaupo_: so is there a way to detect if a fin was received I mean
10:44 < kurahaupo_> supernovah: unless you've set a bunch of special flags, the only reason for read() to return 0 is because the remote has shut down the connection (or the route has been lost, which might as well be the same thing)
10:45 < dka> Triffid_Hunter, HI
10:45 < dka> can you help me I am not understanding how to correct my thing
10:45 < kurahaupo_> supernovah: basically, handle it the same way you would reading from a pipe or a file. Quit upon EOF.
10:46 < supernovah> kurahaupo_: but a read that returns -1 is in error, anything 1 or greater indicates there are bytes to read...
10:46 < supernovah> zero just menas there are zero bytes to read no?
10:47 < dka> Triffid_Hunter, what do you mean by "DE">?
10:47 < kurahaupo_> supernovah: yes, it means there are zero bytes to read, but unless you've set O_NBLOCK, read() won't return until there are bytes to read, or it knows that there won't be any.
10:48 < supernovah> kurahaupo_: Oh I see
10:48 < kurahaupo_> supernovah: like it said, same as a pipe
10:48 < dka> I do not have /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d
10:49 < iflema> /
10:51 < kurahaupo_> supernovah: the return value from read() is a past-tense indicator: bytes that have been read. Generally you *don't* want to stop on all errors; at minimum EINTR should be retried
10:52 < dka> I have just formatted and now I cant write properly to people
10:52 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: desktop environment.. gnome, kde, xfce, unity, etc etc sometimes have their own configuration stuff that overrides xorg settings
10:52 < dka> I need to fix this but I am a bit lost with the configuration you told me Triffid_Hunter
10:52 < dka> I am using cinnamon and cinnamon as a Keyboard settings
10:52 < dka> Usually I just pick "US international¨
10:52 < dka> but this time I have formated with the US keyboard layout instead of french layout
10:53 < dka> and I dont want to format again
10:55 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: uhh you don't need to reinstall to change keyboard settings
10:55 < pingfloyd> have you tried turning it off and on again?
10:56 < Pentode> dka, have you tried dpkg-reconfigure locales?
10:56 < dka> Pentode, I am not sure what I should choose for getting my keyboard back
10:56 < Pentode> should be something similar if you are non debian but it may be different with different distros
10:57 < Pentode> is it not working at all?
10:57 < dka> Triffid_Hunter, I am not expert of keyboard mappin
10:57 < dka> 'el`eve
10:57 < Pentode> or is it just set to the wrong locale
10:57 < dka> no it's not working at all
10:57 < dka> echo $LANG
10:57 < dka> en_US.UTF-8
10:58 < dka> I dont know why but ALT+' should write a E with accent, but instead write 'E  . I am using US International layout
10:58 < Pentode> really not much to configure there, try rebooting? is it a laptop or a usb keyboard?
10:58 < dka> Triffid_Hunter, noticed that my altgr is an alt
10:58 < dka> I dont know why probably because I have formated with a different layout than usual
10:58 < Pentode> also some modern laptops use i2c keyboards (really annoying)
10:58 < dka> it is a laptop
10:58 < dka> but i use a usb keyboard
10:58 < Triffid_Hunter> dka: what's written on the keyboard is irrelevant. you need to change your xkbmap from alt-intl to altgr-intl, presumably via some gui settings app provided by cinnamon
10:59 < Triffid_Hunter> and I don't use cinnamon (I use kde) and I don't let kde manage my keyboard because it's much easier writing a file for xorg :P
11:01 < dka> Triffid_Hunter, can I ask you to write mine if it's easy for ya >?
11:01 < dka> pelase
11:04 < heftig> Pentode: yeah, i8042 is kind of dying off
11:04 < monotux> so I'd like to test a feature that uses smartmontools to check a drive upon boot. how do I fake a disk error, cause a disk error  or mark a disk as faulty? googling this is tricky due to the common terms...
11:06 < monotux> any ideas? :)
11:06 < iflema> cause a fake disk error? 350gs get you a real one... its the sudden stop
11:07 < monotux> 350gs?
11:07 < iflema> drop it
11:07 < monotux> haha
11:07 < monotux> virtual machine, I'd like to avoid messing up my workstation in the process :D
11:08 < iflema> windows goes in there...
11:08 < iflema> try a real one... one you can drop
11:09 < sauvin> The only way I know of to "fake" a drive error below the FS layer is to install intentionally a defective drive.
11:09 < monotux> ah :/
11:10 < monotux> how do developers who work on smartmontools test their stuff? they have to have some kind of test environment"
11:11 < sauvin> One presumes they have a computer repair storefront. :D
11:11 < runtugen> monotux: mmmm -- I might have missed the start of the convo, but I see there is a tool called fiu-run
11:12 < runtugen> perhaps that can do what you are looking for?
11:13 < supernovah> is it normal in tcp for remote -> local Fin Ack, local -> remote Fin Ack, remote -> local Ack? Why the last ack?
11:13 < monotux> runtugen I'll have a look, thanks!
11:15 < iflema> 3 way handshake ack the ack
11:16 < iflema> and begin
11:16 < overkiLLe> hey guys, how can i set my terminal session theme (ctrl-alt-f2 terminal) permanently to something like solarized?
11:16 < iflema> here it comes
11:24 < TheWild> hello
11:25 < TheWild> do you know about something like ddrescue but for Windows
11:25 < TheWild> Unstoppable Copier isn't doing its job right
11:26 < nothos> TheWild If you have access to bash on windows, could probably still use ddrescue
11:26 < TheWild> it's Windows 7
11:27 < nothos> Oh goody
11:27 < TheWild> wait, maybe I have dd
11:27 < TheWild> oh good, I have dd
11:30 < supernovah> iflema: the fact of the matter is that a fin ack fin ack ack is not normal, the ack was actually part of a previous sequence
11:32 < iflema> supernovah: so now you know 3 way handshake?
11:33 < iflema> logging the shit is one thing going through it another...
11:33 < supernovah> iflema: I already did
11:34 < iflema> oh ok
11:38  * iflema *cough*
11:38 < runtugen> TheWild: So you're saying that 'Unstoppable Copier' isn't...?
11:38 < runtugen> :-)
11:41 < TheWild> I've configured it to "Undamaged Files First" and "Resume Partial Files". When it hits a file occupying bad sector and encounters an error, it goes to the next file. After all, it goes to next pass - to recover partial files, but when it attempts to open the file, it claims that the directory or file name is wrong.
11:41 < TheWild> File didn't magically disappear nor have any unicode characters in it's name, nor the directory.
11:41 < supernovah> iflema: I wasn't talking about syn, I was talking about fin
11:42 < TheWild> its
11:42 < TheWild> damn muscle memory
11:43 < TheWild> Unstoppable Copier also such with ".git" - renames it to "git"
11:44 < TheWild> s/such/sucks
11:44 < well_laid_lawn> you need to close the regex with a /
11:45 < TheWild> sorry, correction to the above - my mistake, the directory name was indeed 'git' originally
11:56 < Eynix> Hi everyone, I have some "basic" permission issue over symbolic links
11:57 < Eynix> I tried to "connect" 2 webapps by sharing some ressources (files) with symbolic links
11:57 < Eynix> app1 is owned by user1, which is member of group1 and group2
11:57 < Desu> most web servers will not follow symlinks by default, for sanity reasons, as a sidenote
11:57 < Eynix> app2 is owned by user2 which is a member of group2
11:58 < Eynix> in this case, symbolic links are followed
11:58 < Desu> (allowing symlinks can cause !!FUN!!)
11:58 < Eynix> most of the hierarchy of app2 permission is on the line of 770
11:59 < Eynix> I don't understand why user1 can't access files in app2, since user1 is in the same group as user2
11:59 < Eynix> if I changed the permission from 770 to 777, it's working.
11:59 < pingfloyd> Eynix: did you log user1 out all the way after adding him to the group?
11:59 < Eynix> why is the group permission not "working" here ?
12:00 < jhodrien> All the parent directories are important too.
12:00 < Desu> namei -l path/to/app2
12:00 < Eynix> parents are 770
12:00 < jhodrien> Sorry, missed the 777 comment.
12:00 < pingfloyd> groups command
12:00 < pingfloyd> does the needed group show up
12:00 < Eynix> y
12:01 < pingfloyd> Eynix: what's the permissions on the parent dir for app2
12:01 < Eynix> either 770 or 777
12:01 < Eynix> files are like app2/data/user/files/shareddir
12:01 < Eynix> app2/data/user/files are 770
12:01 < Eynix> shareddir is 777
12:02 < Eynix> I read somewhere about the notion of "primary group"
12:02 < pingfloyd> is user1 able to cd to the end of that path?
12:02 < Eynix> user1 can't log
12:02 < Eynix> user2 either btw
12:03 < pingfloyd> user1 must be able to traverse the hierarchy
12:03 < iflema> supernovah: i seen syn
12:03 < pingfloyd> e.g., x perm
12:03 < pingfloyd> on the dirs
12:03 < Eynix> x perm is the one ?
12:03 < Eynix> not r ?
12:03 < Desu> 12:00:10             Desu ⸾ namei -l path/to/app2
12:03 < Desu> x == can enter r == can list content
12:04 < Eynix> pingfloyd i'll double check my permissions to see if the whole hierarchy has r-x as group
12:04 < Desu> Eynix: which is what my command does
12:04 < Eynix> Desu oh sorry i've missed it
12:05 < Eynix> Desu err are you sure ?
12:05 < pingfloyd> Eynix: you could temporarily give a shell to user1, and then disable once you get it working
12:05 < Desu> see the namei man page if you don't believe me
12:05 < pingfloyd> .e.g., edit /etc/passwd
12:05 < Eynix> Desu I dont' think i've understand this command
12:05 < Eynix> it's giving me 777 basicaly
12:06 < Eynix> but I'm sure the parent is 770
12:06 < Desu> it will list each node in the path with the permissions/ownership
12:06 < Eynix> it's not that I don't believe you, but the result is weird
12:07 < Eynix> ooh I was giving the thing a relative path
12:07 < Eynix> that's why I guess
12:07 < Eynix> ye alright it's working
12:07 < pingfloyd> don't have to trust, you can man namei
12:08 < Eynix> So
12:08 < Desu> relative works too, but might be a bit confusing
12:08 < Eynix> I got at least r-x as group permission from / to /path/to/shared/dir
12:08 < Desu> with the correct gid?
12:08 < pingfloyd> is the executable also executable for the group?
12:09 < Eynix> nop
12:09 < pingfloyd> actually are you trying to execute the target file or read it?
12:09 < Eynix> sorry I didn't understand ?
12:09 < pingfloyd> sounds like the implication was you need to be able to execute a file in there
12:10 < pingfloyd> app2
12:10 < Eynix> ok so my testing process : i'm trying to connect nextcloud to piwigo. piwigo has an import feature. if the import is successfull, the simlink is working
12:11 < Eynix> permission from / to /home/yunohost.app/nextcloud, I can't changed and I didn't
12:11 < Eynix> but if I changed all the permission from /home/yunohost.app/nextcloud to /home/yunohost.app/nextcloud/file/to/share, the import is succefull
12:12 < Eynix> all the permission to o+rwx
12:12 < Eynix> now I'm trying to figure out how to let other permission alone and use the group feature
12:12 < Eynix> with no success so fat
12:12 < Eynix> far*
12:14 < Eynix> pingfloyd so it's pictures, not executable
12:17 < rhoks> hi thre
12:17 < rhoks> there*
12:17 < rhoks> is there some software that can help me keep track of work/research hours?
12:18 < rhoks> or a web service even better
12:18 < rumpel> rhoks, "date" :>
12:25 < Eynix> here's a sumary of the issue : https://pastebin.com/hDcELGN9
12:42 < BluesKaj> Hey folks
12:43 < dgurney> hi
12:43 < plexigras> does cp have a option that prohibits overriding existing files?
12:46 < AppAraat> plexigras: --interactive
12:46 < AppAraat> or --no-clobber
12:48 < plexigras> thanks
12:50 < kazdax> good morning
12:53 < JimBuntu> gotta love the naming conventions... "clobber", that's totally a technical word and legit.
12:55 < AppAraat> what conventions? :p
13:04 < kazdax> i got my RHCSA boook
13:04 < kazdax> its the 7th edition just came out
13:04 < kazdax> RHCSA/RHCSE red hat linux certificationstudy guide
13:04 < kazdax> by michael jang
13:12 < JimBuntu> congrats kazdax, but.,... did you get it signed by the author(s)?
13:16 < Eynix> I changed the gid of one user (used to handle a webapp) to the gid of another (used to handle another webapp), but I can't figure how to make the "group" permission to work... here's where i'm at : https://pastebin.com/w9AFvk5E
13:26 < TheWild> I'm using dd. It's still hard to recover, because after a burst of errors, the SSD almost stops responding.
13:26 < TheWild> the hiccup often goes up to 5 minutes. It even disrupts my network connection.
13:28 < sbef> ok now i will ask you something you won't like. How can i make my i3-2m look pretty eheheh
13:29 < sbef> i lloked online, and everyone talks about modifying the config file
13:29 < sbef> but there isn't any actual tutorial written decently
13:30 < mouses> sbef: define 'pretty'
13:30 < sbef> and the most availables talking about ready-to-go themes actually do not work
13:30 < mouses> sbef: maybe look into i3-gaps?
13:30 < sbef> mouses: maybe, i will check. thank youu!
13:31 < sbef> mouses: btw pretty i mean something like installing themes to make everything llok a bit more modern. I like how i3 works, but let's be honest... it looks awful
13:32 < mouses> looks amazing to me, but that's so subjective
13:32 < mouses> -gaps let's you set some custom border stuff
13:32 < mouses> that might make it 'more pretty' to you
13:33 < sbef> mouses: thank you
13:33 < sbef> and what about the info bar?
13:34 < mouses> sbef: not sure, i'm super happy with mine
13:34 < mouses> let me share a earlier screencap
13:34 < sbef> (and i do agree with you with the subjectiveness of prrettiness ahah)
13:34 < Eynix> pingfloyd I find out the issue...
13:34 < sbef> mouses: ok
13:34 < Eynix> after editing a group one need to restart the webserv...
13:35 < mouses> https://imgur.com/a/eYZpDJR
13:35 < mouses> sbef: ^^
13:36 < sbef> mouses: i like it
13:36 < sbef> a lot
13:36 < sbef> how did u personalize it?
13:37 < mouses> sbef: moment, can share config file if you like
13:37 < sbef> mouses: i'd be really glad!
13:37 < mouses> sbef: http://termbin.com/ikde
13:37 < mouses> sbef: some of that relies on i3-gaps
13:38 < sbef> thank you a lot
13:38 < mouses> https://github.com/Airblader/i3
13:38 < mouses> no prob!
13:44 < TaZeR> is luks2 safe to use?
13:45 < TaZeR> i wanna encrypt a new data drive i bought
13:45 < infinisil> TaZeR: What makes you think it's not?
13:45 < infinisil> It's not like it's a new tech
13:45 < TaZeR> well i thought it was quite new and may have bugs?
13:45 < infinisil> oh wait
13:46 < infinisil> Ah you mean 2.0 specifically, no idea about that
13:46 < TaZeR> yea, im just trying to figure out the best settings to use, ciphers etc
13:46 < TaZeR> so far im looking at passing something like this, if it looks corrrect? 'cryptsetup -v --cipher aes-xts-plain64 --key-size 512 --hash sha256 --iter-time 2000 --use-random luksFormat --type luks2 /dev/sdb'
13:47 < TaZeR> is aes-xts-plain64 the best cipher to use right now?
13:51 < iflema> to protect the US or hold ya room mate back?
13:56 < Techknight_> Hi guys. I'm trying to build a simple make file (fir the first time) but for some odd reason it won't work........ The file looks like this https://pastebin.com/b9gY7Zvd
13:56 < Techknight_> and I get the error: makefile:2: *** missing separator.  Stop.
13:56 < Techknight_> any good ideas?
13:57 < adrian_1908> Techknight_: used a tab for the indentation?
13:57 < Techknight_> yup
13:57 < adrian_1908> k
13:58 < Techknight_> https://pastebin.com/0NAMjUiE
14:15 < GunqqerFriithian> So I've completely quit out of playonlinux closing everything, at set there exists the process "Worldoftanks.ex [sic]" using 1% cpu and 0% ram. Would an of you know why this process has stuck around
14:22 < djph> GunqqerFriithian: crashed perhaps?
14:22 < djph> kil it with fire
14:22 < GunqqerFriithian> `sudo kill -9 -1`
14:22 < GunqqerFriithian> like that?
14:28 < AlexeyX> Hi there!
14:28 < GunqqerFriithian> Hello
14:28 < notmike> Anybody run rm -rf on the root directory before? I did it before. Messed my whole day up.
14:29 < GunqqerFriithian> Shouldn't it no do anything as --preserve-root is the default?
14:29 < GunqqerFriithian> not*
14:29 < AlexeyX> Is anybody using Forticlient in Linux?
14:29 < notmike> I guess it wasn't the default for me because it rek'd my butthole
14:30 < GunqqerFriithian>        --preserve-root
14:30 < GunqqerFriithian>               do not remove '/' (default)
14:30 < GunqqerFriithian> straight from the man page
14:30 < azarus> GunqqerFriithian: well -- rm != rm
14:30 < azarus> busybox rm doesn't ask, afaik
14:30 < azarus> GNU rm does
14:30 < GunqqerFriithian> yeah I am talking about GNU rm so
14:31 < GunqqerFriithian> surprised busybox rm doesn't
14:32 < azarus> it doesn't: https://git.busybox.net/busybox/tree/coreutils/rm.c
14:32 < GunqqerFriithian> weird
14:32 < notmike> I love how I'm being mansplained to about how rm didn't do what I observed it do
14:32 < GunqqerFriithian> did you just use "mansplained" ironically
14:33 < GunqqerFriithian> or was it unironic
14:33 < azarus> *triggered*
14:33 < GunqqerFriithian> REEEEEE
14:33 < oiaohm> notmike: really I have done rm on root for the heck of it on a vm image I wanted dead.
14:33 < notmike> Hot
14:34 < GunqqerFriithian> `sudo dd if=/dev/qrandom of=/dev/sdb bs=1M`
14:34 < GunqqerFriithian> did I get the syntax on that right?
14:34 < oiaohm> notmike: after a few hours attempting something then working out it was complete the wrong method insanity sometimes take over.
14:34 < fattredd> Looks good to me, provided you're trying to wipe sdb
14:35 < GunqqerFriithian> welll normally you don't wanna destroy sda so
14:36 < fattredd> Meh. I've got root on sdb right now. Could be on any of them really
14:37 < fattredd> Also did you mean /dev/urandom?
14:37 < GunqqerFriithian> no, qrandom, it uses quantom random number generation from somewhere I forget where (you have to manually install it to use it)
14:38 < notmike> Sometimes I scratch my cats butt. I think he appreciates it.
14:38 < GunqqerFriithian> maximum destro- wait wut
14:38 < fattredd> That probably isn't nessesary, but it is interesting
14:38 < GunqqerFriithian> oh it is total overkill for anything Ill need in the foreseeable future
14:39 < GunqqerFriithian> but still fun to have the power to murder a drive
14:39 < fattredd> How fast can you get it though?
14:40 < GunqqerFriithian> idk
14:40 < fattredd> dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/null status=progress
14:40 < GunqqerFriithian> https://github.com/lmacken/quantumrandom
14:40 < fattredd> ^^Replace random with qrandom
14:43 < GunqqerFriithian> give me a min or two im at school supposed to be working
14:53 < pingfloyd> much faster: cryptsetup open --type plain -d /dev/urandom /dev/sdb crypt; dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mapper/crypt bs=1 status=progress
14:54 < Psi-Jack> !ops notmike trollin
14:54 < fattredd> Writing encrypted zeros
14:54 < fattredd> lol
14:55 < pingfloyd> writing zeros through dm-crypt
14:55 < fattredd> Why not just 2 passes of zeros? That'll solve the problem much faster
14:55 < fattredd> Or hell, one pass of zeros
14:56 < fattredd> Because let's be real for a second: nobody is going to bother recovering it
14:56 < cheapie> Can't have anybody knowing they were zeros!
14:57 < pingfloyd> cheapie: think you miss the point
14:57 < cheapie> pingfloyd: Which is...?
14:57 < pingfloyd> cheapie: they were overwriting with urandom to begin with
14:58 < pingfloyd> going through dm-crypt and overwriting with zeros gets the same goal in much shorter time
14:58 < fattredd> Certainly faster than depleting the random pool, but still
14:58 < pingfloyd> urandom is slow
14:59 < cheapie> Meh, just use zeros.
14:59 < geirha> yeah, one pass with zeros is more than enough. No point in writing random bytes
14:59 < pingfloyd> if all you want to do is wipe, yes
15:00 < pingfloyd> but when you setup a volume for dm-crypt you should overwrite with urandom or the method I've shown.
15:01 < brutser> using centos7+kvm+libvirt+virt-manager: having problems with sound, only when use ac97 the soundbar is visible in pulseaudio control, but no sound throughput, can anyone help me, been busy with this all weekend.. :/ thanks!
15:01 < fattredd> pingfloyd: Are you working with the russians? Is that why you need to super-delete everything?
15:01 < pingfloyd> fattredd: are you a kid?
15:02 < cheapie> You're not going to recover anything that's been overwritten, even once, on any hard drive newer than 1990 or so.
15:02 < fattredd> Is that a serious question?
15:02 < compdoc> brutser, ever try ICH9 ?
15:02 < pingfloyd> fattredd: you seem new
15:02 < brutser> mentality on irc is lately always of this nature: how can i superdelete? answer: are you terrorist, are you working for russians? that really helps answer the question yes :)
15:02 < pingfloyd> brutser: no doubt
15:03 < pingfloyd> brutser: the peanut gallery
15:03 < fattredd> pingfloyd: New to the irc, sure
15:03 < triceratux> fattredd: in the former cccp the russians worked with YOU
15:04 < cheapie> fattredd: Well.... you'll find that around here nobody can possibly answer an actual question.
15:04 < cheapie> I mean, why answer someone's question if you can just criticize the question instead? :P
15:04 < pingfloyd> cheapie: like you did to begin with
15:04 < pingfloyd> cheapie: with your sophomoric snarkiness
15:05 < cheapie> pingfloyd: No, that was in response to your answer to someone else's question.
15:05 < pingfloyd> cheapie: it was snarky
15:05 < jim> ok... everyine relax and breathe
15:06 < spare> you could just type the industry standard for disposing harddrives into a search engine its just a little bit more than your single run of zeros
15:06 < geirha> jim: *gasp* thanks for reminding me. Almost turned blue there for a second!
15:07 < pingfloyd> cheapie | Can't have anybody knowing they were zeros! <-- what an ignorant remark
15:07 < jim> geirha, occasionally people forget to relax
15:07 < fattredd> pingfloyd: It was a joke. Relax
15:07 < pingfloyd> fattredd: then quit trolling the help
15:07 < pingfloyd> fattredd: either contribute to support or stfu
15:08 < brutser> :) hihi what a discussion
15:08 < brutser> the land of lost souls :)
15:09 < compdoc> a discussion is when you talk about hings
15:09 < compdoc> things
15:09 < brutser> glad there's a dictionary bot around too!
15:09 < fattredd> God forbid we talk here. You're right: for secure, fast erasing you dm-crypt and dd zeros is a really solid method
15:09 < fattredd> Many people consider it to be overkill
15:10 < spare> theres a standard for disposing old drives at data centers if you think thats overkill you arent trying hard enough
15:11 < oiaohm> fattredd: really dd zeros on a ssd may not in fact work.
15:11 < pingfloyd> user asked how to randomly overwrite, not how to zero
15:11 < jim> well one person I know who isn't really tech savvy, would open the drive and bend the platters
15:12 < oiaohm> jim: seen data recovery done one bent platters.
15:12 < oiaohm> proper is turn the drive to dust.
15:13 < ayecee> thermite or gtfo amirite
15:13 < GunqqerFriithian> drive recovery has been done on smashed platters, you have to really destroy them
15:13 < pingfloyd> everyone has a blast furnace in their home
15:13 < triceratux> jim: you know imran awan ?
15:13 < oiaohm> Then put it in a cynide pit for gold/metal recovery.
15:13 < fattredd> You're not wrong, but those types of recovery are extremely expensive
15:13 < jim> triceratux, no I don't
15:13 < MrElendig> degauser
15:14 < ayecee> also mostly non-existent
15:14  * triceratux relaxes & takes a deep breath
15:14 < oiaohm> fattredd: I have seen bent platter recovery done for the fun factor.
15:14 < oiaohm> fattredd: total equipment required is only 5 thousand dollars.
15:14 < MrElendig> a local company here have done recovery from disks that have been shot multiple times
15:14 < jim> fattredd, probably his point is it could be done
15:14 < oiaohm> fattredd: time is the large cost.
15:15 < fattredd> oiaohm: Wow. Not too bad
15:15 < MrElendig> part of the onetrack group now
15:15 < MrElendig> ontrack*
15:15 < pingfloyd> and you think forensics wouldn't have access to such equipment?
15:15 < oiaohm> MrElendig: due to high density of drives these days most drives don't loss more than 5 percent of their data to a degauser.
15:15 < pingfloyd> they have that and then some
15:16 < jim> I guess you could open the drive and dip it in solvent to take all the magnetic material off the platters?
15:16 < pingfloyd> don't have to be a spy to do things right.  Also spies have less rights than citizens.
15:17 < pingfloyd> all they have to do is group them into "terrorism" and they get a free pass for indefinite detainment and torture.
15:17 < oiaohm> jim: cyanidation used for gold extraction.  Will fairly much disolve all the metals in SSD or standard HDD.
15:17 < MrElendig> oiaohm: eh, depends on the type. The ones I played with were good enough for nato certification for use on the highest class stuff
15:17 < fattredd> Jesus you guys. Not everybody works in the DoD
15:18 < MrElendig> fattredd: we were just a random telecom company, but got our hands on some used units for cheap :p
15:18 < triceratux> nope theyve all headed for state where theres diplomatic immunity
15:19 < MrElendig> if you had a big enough capasitor bank you could probably have melted the disks
15:19 < jim> fattredd, the guy I know who bent the platters wanted to prevent other
15:19 < oiaohm> MrElendig: latest generation drives   Heat-assisted magnetic recording HAMR.  Those buggers are resistant even to nato certification rated degauser.
15:19 < jim> viewing of his real estate data
15:20 < oiaohm> MrElendig: its getting harder to nuke drives.
15:20 < pingfloyd> jim: he should've encrypted the data to begin with really
15:20 < jim> yeah
15:20 < pingfloyd> then a secure wipe is as simple as destroying the header
15:21 < jim> like I said he wasn't really tech savvy, or he probably would have
15:21 < pingfloyd> especially if he's using solid state
15:21 < spare> theres a ccc video on some uni student getting to use an electron microscope to reverse engineer an old amd cpu but no ones going to decap your chip and extract the private key ^_^
15:21 < oiaohm> Even without the encryption key depending on the encryption sometimes you can pull some of the image data out of it without breaking encryption.
15:21 < pingfloyd> you really want to get that encrypted from the start, or before any sensitive data is ever introduced
15:21 < MrElendig> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMYtTO8LIAw
15:21 < jim> this was before I ever heard of an SSD
15:22 < geirha> Has anyone actually managed to recover data from a zeroed drive (magnetic ones, not ssd)?
15:22 < fattredd> People have, sure. Certainly not me though
15:22 < pingfloyd> if there's one things that comes up again again throughout generations, is that you never underestimate the resourcefulness and ingenuity of humans.
15:23 < oiaohm> geirha: depends if it did in fact zero.
15:23 < pingfloyd> how many generations of crypto are useless now?
15:23 < oiaohm> geirha: you can have firmware issues where drive sent all zeros does not in fact zero everything.
15:24 < fattredd> oiaohm: That's interesting. Wouldn't it cause all kinds of writing errors in general though?
15:24 < oiaohm> A used electron microscope can be as little as a 12000 USD.
15:24 < triceratux> those hackesrs who discovered rot26 is twice as good as rot13, & rot52 is 4x as good
15:25 < oiaohm> Of course fully functional.
15:26 < oiaohm> fattredd: its controller the controller can just record all the areas zeroed.  But not fact write everywhere just yet.   This can be a performance optimisation.
15:26 < fattredd> I mean. Let's not pretend $12k isn't a large chunk of money. Not to mention paying someone with the skill to retrieve that data. It's not exactly an easy skill to learn
15:27 < fattredd> To a company that needs to recover mission critical data: sure. But a real estate company? No chance
15:27 < pingfloyd> let's not assume there isn't people smart and capable enough out there
15:27 < pingfloyd> with security you error on the side of caution
15:27 < MrElendig> give it a few years and an AI can do it for you
15:27 < spare> doesnt matter tho you still need to build security around auditable statements nad can someone do XYZ regardless of how obsurd means redesigning your logic
15:27 < oiaohm> fattredd: problem you have is some rich people take it on for the challange.   Its like seeing HP lead researcher spend 150000 with his son to have a full CNC machine at home.
15:28 < pingfloyd> because even then, there's a good chance of compromise
15:28 < MrElendig> sounds like a suitable task for machine learning
15:28 < pingfloyd> at some point
15:29 < oiaohm> fattredd: depends what the real estate company does if they are in development I have had one of those pay 20 thousand dollars on data recovery to get there inventory lists back.
15:29 < pingfloyd> you'll never need more than 640K
15:29 < fattredd> But would you pay the same to maybe get some unknown data from the competition?
15:30 < MrElendig> or that dude that got his hdd corrupted and threw it away
15:30 < MrElendig> with almost 200 million usb worth of bitcoins on it
15:30 < pingfloyd> as absurd as that sounds today, there was a time when it wasn't.
15:30 < MrElendig> usd*
15:30 < oiaohm> fattredd: key thing is presuming its unknown.
15:30 < MrElendig> (he threw it away before the price hike)
15:30 < LSD-25> hey has anyone had problems with more recently built proprietary asus systems that dont allow linux to install because of secure boot method
15:31 < MrElendig> LSD-25: you can sign yourself
15:31 < oiaohm> fattredd: most attacks against hardware are not done with unknowns.   Ie this drive was in X machine and it processed Y so Z useful data should be on that drive.
15:31 < LSD-25> ?
15:31 < pingfloyd> LSD-25: disable restrict boot
15:31 < MrElendig> you can sign your bootloader/kernel
15:31 < MrElendig> can add your own key to the firmware
15:31 < MrElendig> or you can use the key the linux foundation has
15:31 < oiaohm> fattredd: the ones who don't care about contents are the ones who are normally rich and are doing it for the laughts to learn how to data recovery.
15:31 < LSD-25> thank you MrElendig
15:32 < MrElendig> (using the shim)
15:32 < oiaohm> fattredd: of course if they strike it lucky they are not past selling the data.
15:32 < LSD-25> ill read up on how i can possibly do this
15:32 < fattredd> oiaohm: I suppose that's true with enough commitment/boredom
15:32 < MrElendig> in almost all cases you can tell it to continue even if the binary is unsigned too
15:32 < MrElendig> usually you just set "secure boot: Other os" for asus
15:32 < MrElendig> secure boot will still be active, but it will continue even with a unsigned payload
15:33 < MrElendig> (but it will yell if it is a signed but invalid payload)
15:33 < oiaohm> fattredd: complete data recovery lab with all tools is less than 100 000.   Some of these rich for muck around projects that pocket change.
15:34 < MrElendig> LSD-25: just what hardware is this?
15:34 < LSD-25> g20cb with the 1070 gtx
15:34 < LSD-25> asus g20cb
15:34 < oiaohm> fattredd: that the problem data recovery might be out of the reach of general people but is not that expensive that there is only a small number that can attempt it.
15:34 < pingfloyd> it's nothing to an org or company
15:35 < LSD-25> i tried doing the Other OS thing before, but it just kept doing loop restarts
15:35 < LSD-25> or freezing
15:35 < MrElendig> are you using a nvme m.2 device btw?
15:35 < LSD-25> maybe i didnt disable restrict mode or something
15:35 < LSD-25> nope
15:35 < oiaohm> fattredd: if the data is sensitive absolute  destruction is not that expensive.   Remember when I take to gold mine for metal extraction I get paid for it.
15:35 < LSD-25> wish i was though lol
15:35 < LSD-25> im on a 1tb hdd
15:35 < LSD-25> 7200rpm
15:35 < MrElendig> some boards require signed secureboot for booting off nvme
15:35 < MrElendig> #justmicrosoftthings
15:36 < LSD-25> yeah i get you
15:36 < LSD-25> makes sense a little
15:36 < pingfloyd> oiaohm: that's a good idea
15:36 < REAMDE_>  hello. i am trying to install MKlivestatus, when i do ./configure, it shows "configure: error: unable to find the rrd_xport function". i have rrdtool installed. any help? i am using centos
15:36 < LSD-25> i mean i got another asus rig but its way older and id rather use linux on this new fast computer
15:36 < pingfloyd> take the encrypted drive in for metal extraction
15:36 < pingfloyd> get back a few bucks
15:36 < MrElendig> my b350m-a warns that if I set it to other os then I can't boot off nvme unless it is signed
15:36 < MrElendig> asus b350m-a
15:37 < oiaohm> pingfloyd: normally take a few ton of grinded up drives for metal extraction in one hit.
15:37 < pnbeast> REAMDE_, should you be installing a packaged RPM instead of something from source?  But, that said, if you're compiling something anyway, you'll want the rrd development package to be installed, not just the rrdtool package.  Probably.
15:37 < MrElendig> LSD-25: if secureboot is the issue then it usually tells you that there is a invalid payload
15:37 < MrElendig> LSD-25: could be something else that is the actual problem
15:37 < MrElendig> LSD-25: is cms enabled?
15:37 < oiaohm> pingfloyd: so its a far bit of coin.
15:38 < MrElendig> and what are you trying to boot?
15:38 < MrElendig> the install image off usb?
15:38 < LSD-25> cms is enabled i believe...
15:38 < MrElendig> if so, how did you put it on the usb
15:38 < MrElendig> I would disable it, unless windows is installed in compability mode
15:38 < LSD-25> unetbootin or rufio? i think was the name
15:38 < azarus> rufus?
15:38 < MrElendig> unetbooting breaks the image
15:38 < LSD-25> yeah something like that
15:38 < MrElendig> rufus does too unless you use the correct non-obvious setting
15:39 < LSD-25> maybe i should try to install from a dvd/cd then
15:39 < MrElendig> you have to select dd mode
15:39 < LSD-25> dd= stuff
15:39 < justsomeguy> Rufus works for me(tm), even in iso mode.
15:39 < Yardanico> https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/
15:39 < pingfloyd> most of the "usb creators" are garbage
15:40 < pingfloyd> they put a bunch of their own crap onto the target system
15:40 < MrElendig> https://sourceforge.net/p/usbwriter/wiki/Documentation/
15:40 < MrElendig> https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/
15:40 < triceratux> s_most_all_g <-- there fixed it for you
15:40 < MrElendig> doesn't get much simpler than one of those
15:40 < pingfloyd> better off using dd or doing something like cp image /dev/sdX
15:41 < MrElendig> this asumes some sane distro with hybrid images
15:41 < pingfloyd> or you can even do cat image > /dev/sdX
15:41 < justsomeguy> Welcome to windows. Where basic utility software comes in 50 flavors and bundles opencandy adware in their softonic installers.
15:41 < justsomeguy> Oh, and everything is third party.
15:41 < justsomeguy> (I'll stop griping now.)
15:41 < pingfloyd> and every utility tries to do everything
15:42 < fattredd> pingfloyd: Can cat really write to disks like that?
15:42 < pingfloyd> so you have tons of overlap and bloat in features
15:42 < pingfloyd> fattredd: why couldn't it?  "Everything is a file".
15:42 < justsomeguy> You can use 'cp', too.
15:43 < pingfloyd> I
15:43 < jeffree> how can I launch all gui applications at the same time?
15:43 < fattredd> I don't know... I Just assumed it would choke on big binary files
15:43 < jeffree> no reason, I just want to
15:43 < LSD-25> they dont still make that install ubuntu on windows thing right
15:43 < LSD-25> think that might be my only option at this point
15:43 < pnbeast> REAMDE_, it's IRC - you should converse in the channel, not via pm.
15:43 < pingfloyd> you won't be able to do that in Windows though lol
15:44 < LSD-25> i even tried out the windows linux subsystem, and it was horrible with debian
15:44 < pingfloyd> wsl is garbage
15:44 < LSD-25> yeah its trash
15:44 < REAMDE_> pnbeast, like this? do you see this text in green?
15:44 < pingfloyd> it's like linux in a very superficial way
15:45 < pingfloyd> windows with a linux paint job is what it feels like
15:45 < LSD-25> okay so so far i got these tips, turn off CMS, and disable restrict boot, might also want to set it to Other OS
15:45 < LSD-25> firmware keys... dont really know how to mess with this but ill read up on it
15:46 < pingfloyd> LSD-25: I just keep efi enabled and disable secure boot
15:46 < LSD-25> ah okay keep efi enabled, gotcha
15:46 < LSD-25> appreciate it man
15:46 < pingfloyd> but, you know your options now
15:46 < LSD-25> ill write these notes down and experiment right now
15:47 < LSD-25> pingfloyd you dont remember my nick by any chance
15:47 < LSD-25> used to be really annoying back in the day lol
15:47 < LSD-25> me not u lol
15:48 < pnbeast> REAMDE_, yes, here in the channel.  My client does not work the same as yours, but, this is the correct place, yes.
15:48 < pingfloyd> LSD-25: don't know
15:48 < LSD-25> i just got this nick back after 6 years of being on it
15:48 < LSD-25> not being on it*
15:48 < LSD-25> i had to get staff to drop it, spoke to them on twitter
15:48 < pingfloyd> on twitter?!
15:49 < LSD-25> because i lost password and email info over time
15:49 < LSD-25> yeah dude they helped me over twitter! lol
15:49 < pingfloyd> they made you use twitter to get it fixed?
15:49 < GunqqerFriithian> Ok that's odd, this IRC server doesn't like my client giving my password but other servers are fine with it
15:49 < Roden> I keep getting /usr/bin/fcitx-qimpanel
15:49 < LSD-25> no they sent me from twitter to #freenode
15:49 < Roden> "Sorry, Ubuntu 16.04 has experienced an internal error."
15:49 < pnbeast> GunqqerFriithian, tell me your password and I'll investigate for you.
15:49 < LSD-25> lol sounds like a usual problem Roden
15:49 < GunqqerFriithian> hunter2
15:49 < pnbeast> :)
15:50 < pingfloyd> "internal error"?! Ubuntu gets more and more like Windows with each version.
15:50 < GunqqerFriithian> but yeah it's weird, my client just returns a wrong password message
15:50 < LSD-25> i agree with that statement
15:50 < LSD-25> lol
15:50 < justsomeguy> Anyone running NILFS2 as their filesystem for /?
15:50 < GunqqerFriithian> at least you can see more info on the error
15:51 < pingfloyd> "let's give the user error messages that says fuck all, since we assume they won't understand anyway"
15:51 < GunqqerFriithian> OOPSIE WOOPSIE!! Uwu We made a fucky wucky!! A wittle fucko boingo! The code monkeys at our headquarters are working VEWY HAWD to fix this!
15:51 < LSD-25> Nannys Id like to F*** ?
15:51 < MrElendig> justsomeguy: yes
15:51 < LSD-25> lol jk
15:51 < MrElendig> justsomeguy: nippon telecom does
15:51 < MrElendig> telegraph*
15:52 < justsomeguy> How did you do the install, MrElendig, did you use the package manager to install manually with --installroot and install grub by hand?
15:52 < justsomeguy> Err...
15:53  * justsomeguy guesses that's what happens when he looks at his keyboard while he's typing.
15:53 < MrElendig> justsomeguy: I didn't say that *I* was using it
15:53 < Roden> Oh, I found a few ways to work on it.  maybe these will help
15:53 < pingfloyd> LSD-25: I guess ubuntu is taking lessons from their new partner
15:53 < MrElendig> justsomeguy: you just asked if someone did, and nippon telegraph does
15:54 < pingfloyd> LSD-25: they're building up that wall between the user and developer
15:54 < Roden> The "unreportable error" info
15:54 < MrElendig> justsomeguy: they also happen to be the people who wrote it, for use on their telecom boxes
15:54 < justsomeguy> MrElendig: My bad, I looked away from the chat window while I was typing my response, and made an assumption.
15:54 < LSD-25> is trump helping them pingfloyd ?
15:54 < MrElendig> justsomeguy: see  http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
15:54 < pingfloyd> LSD-25: isn't MS the trump of software?
15:54 < justsomeguy> I am curious, though, if you were going to install to a NILFS2 formatted /, how would you generally go about it?
15:55 < LSD-25> lol MS is bill gates personal botnet dude.
15:55 < MrElendig> justsomeguy: what about it? same way as any other fs
15:55 < MrElendig> nilfs support is in the kernel so nothing special have to be done
15:55 < pingfloyd> Windows: Making Software Great Again!
15:55 < MrElendig> unlike eg zfs
15:55 < LSD-25> lol pingfloyd
15:55 < justsomeguy> Don't you have to make sure the install media has the kernel module installed and enabled, first?
15:55 < MrElendig> justsomeguy: all sane distroes does
15:56 < pingfloyd> only a matter of time before that becomes one of their new marketing taglines.
15:56 < pingfloyd> they already bit off the Rolling Stones
15:56 < Roden> isn't there some way to prevent my computer from always having its screen come on at fullbright?
15:56 < Roden> I'm on ubuntu-mate
15:56 < justsomeguy> MrElendig: Oh, good to know.
15:56 < Roden> After 1 minute, it goes to black screen.
15:56 < Roden> when i move the mouse, it's on blinding fullbright
15:56 < MrElendig> Roden: multiple, depending on how broken the hardware is
15:56 < MrElendig> and how broken mate is
15:56 < pingfloyd> as much of a pretentious douche Steve Jobs was, he was right that Microsoft has no taste.
15:56 < Roden> afaik it ships this way
15:57 < MrElendig> start by checking the control center in mate
15:57 < Roden> but i installed a brightness control or two in an effort to prevent it from happening.  i think fcit tools or something to that effect
15:57 < MrElendig> it probably has backlight settings in it
15:57 < Roden> The control center?
15:57 < LSD-25> im just mad that i wasted over 1500 on this asus gaming rig and i cant even run linux on it
15:57 < LSD-25> total let down
15:57 < Roden> Okay, brightness is in the "power manager"
15:58 < Roden> It says "set display brightness to 10%"
15:58 < MrElendig> LSD-25: you probably can
15:58 < MrElendig> oem boxes tend to be horrible though
15:58 < Roden> I don't know why it scales up so abruptly after sleep or screensaver.
15:59 < pingfloyd> LSD-25: seems like I sometimes I have better luck with cheap computers.  I think it is because they didn't have the budget to engineer cock blockers into their firmware/hardware.
15:59 < MrElendig> probably the firmware that resets the brightness on resume
15:59 < Roden> XFCe power tools is another one
15:59 < MrElendig> and your distro have not set up a brighness restore hook
15:59 < LSD-25> lol cock blockers
15:59 < Roden> both set to 10%
15:59 < LSD-25> i concur with you man
16:00 < LSD-25> They're doing it wrong, they do not know de way
16:00 < MrElendig> pingfloyd: never used netbooks or most atom devices eh=
16:00  * Roden throws the computer out the windows
16:00 < MrElendig> 32bit uefi on 64bit system etc
16:00 < MrElendig> gma500/600
16:00 < Roden> if anyone talks to you guys from this account, it's the ghost in the shell.
16:00 < pingfloyd> LSD-25: they'll all be extinct eventually anyway
16:01 < MrElendig> LSD-25: which distro are you trying to boot, and did you try usbwriter?
16:01 < MrElendig> and did you try with cms disabled?
16:02 < LSD-25> havent tried any and for some reason i think im locked from even turning cms off
16:02 < pingfloyd> LSD-25: I think actually some day, closed and proprietary software will become rare.
16:02 < jeffree> ok, I figured out how to launch all apps and my system couldn't handle it
16:02 < LSD-25> ive tried ubuntu, debian, fedora and centos
16:02 < pingfloyd> LSD-25: I probably won't be alive when that happens though
16:02 < LSD-25> no luck
16:02 < LSD-25> but u guys opened my mind to other options im overlooking, but i think secure boot is locked on on my device
16:02 < pingfloyd> what's going to happen is slowly and eventually almost all users will come to expect software to at least be open.
16:02 < LSD-25> i dont think i could turn it off
16:03 < LSD-25> its a gaming rig, for all i know it was specifically built with CMS or Secure Boot locked on
16:04 < LSD-25> because when ive tried i was unsuccessful at finding the options to turn it off
16:04 < LSD-25> but ill try it again in a little bit
16:04 < MrElendig> does it has a windows sticker?
16:04 < MrElendig> have*
16:04 < LSD-25> yeah windows 10 and oculus rift sticker
16:04 < pingfloyd> I could see a gaming rig developer thinking, "They'll never need to change these settings".
16:04 < MrElendig> then it is required to be possible to disable secureboot
16:04 < jeffree> in case someone else wants to try for app in $(find /usr/share/applications/* -name "*.desktop"); do gtk-launch $app; done
16:04 < LSD-25> exactly pingfloyd
16:05 < LSD-25> when have gamers relied on linux, seriously lol
16:05 < MrElendig> google shows people running gnu/linux on this thing
16:06 < LSD-25> on my computer?
16:06 < e36freak> MrElendig: i think it's gnu/gnu/linux now
16:06 < e36freak> jeffree: yikes
16:06 < jeffree> lol
16:06 < pingfloyd> more like systemd/linux
16:07 < MrElendig> do you get the bootloader at all?
16:08 < MrElendig> seems like it is painfull, but people have been able to run gnu/linux on the thing
16:08 < MrElendig> and lots of complaints about the gpu overheating due to the trash cooler :p
16:10 < MrElendig> seems like some have had to force the gpu either to nvidia or igp and use that during install
16:10 < MrElendig> and as usual, broken acpi table
16:10 < alexandre9099> (well, not sure if this was already talked here, if so, sorry :( ) what do you think about M$ buying Github? (https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/)
16:11 < MrElendig> alexandre9099: short term:  doesn't matter, long term: will probably slowly destroy gh
16:13 < okamis_> Hello, although Im on an openstack machine. I got a volume there, and I was wondering when mounting it, does it need a partition? My end goal is to auto mount it with fstab.
16:14 < okamis_> The device /dev/vdb; I have ran mkfs.ext4 on it and can mount it. But it doesnt auto mount with fstab. Reading guides online, they are usually partitioning the device.
16:15 < twainwek> ubuntu has vbox guest additions in their repos?
16:15 < adrian_1908> okamis_: so you added the partition to fstab?
16:15 < okamis_> adrian_1908: yes
16:16 < okamis_>   /dev/vdb /mnt/volume ext4 sync,auto,nodev,exec,user,nosuid,rw 0 0  <--- current state
16:18 < adrian_1908> no idea honestly
16:19 < LSD-25> i need a cigarette and im just starting to do my tasks to try to get linux on this pc lol
16:19 < LSD-25> already annoyed
16:19 < LSD-25> i might just return this pc because i have warranty on it
16:19 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: if you read the Microsoft blog https://news.microsoft.com/2018/06/04/microsoft-to-acquire-github-for-7-5-billion/  it has not got regulator blessing yet.
16:19 < LSD-25> say it doesnt boot linux and switch for one that does
16:19 < LSD-25> pretty sure i could install linux on a mac if i wanted to
16:19 < okamis_> Seems mount required an -a flag
16:19 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: so the deal could still completely fall though.
16:20 < alexandre9099> oiaohm, well, there is the intention to buy it, that is quite important ;)
16:20 < twainwek> time to switch to gitlab then
16:20 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: reality gitlab these days is quite good.
16:21 < alexandre9099> i already imported all my github repos into gitlab and i might just close my github account or put some *WARNING* on the bio :D
16:21 < oiaohm> alexandre9099: sad part is github might just turn into the next codeplex with only microsoft projects left.
16:22 < alexandre9099> if M$ buys it, github deserves to just die, IMO
16:23 < azarus> alexandre9099: it's already official btw
16:23 < oiaohm> azarus: regulator approval is not done yet.
16:23 < oiaohm> azarus: so the deal can still go belly up.
16:24 < oiaohm> azarus: reason why its to acquire to give time for people to yell at regulator.
16:24 < azarus> oiaohm: i wouldn't count on it failing at the regulatory level
16:25 < redredhathat> when i'm contributing to a project, should I respect the creator's preference of camelCase/under_scores?
16:25 < azarus> redredhathat: sure
16:25 < oiaohm> azarus: strange things fail with the USA regulators.
16:25 < redredhathat> its not like rude/bad programming to use something that the main project doesnt?
16:26 < oiaohm> redredhathat: also check if a project has a style guide.
16:26 < oiaohm> redredhathat: I know with wine people have got their patches reject for copying what was in the code base already because it was not to the current style guide and that section had not be redone yet.
16:31 < oiaohm> redredhathat: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Developer_guide/Coding_Style style guides can get quite detailed.   Right down to line ending and max line length.
16:31 < redredhathat> this project doesnt seem to, ive reached out to the owner to see what he says
16:31 < LSD-25> downloading and burning the iso to a cd, to ensure the iso file isnt corrupted or something because of usb flash drive problems
16:32 < oiaohm> redredhathat: if it against the style you can attempt submitting it but don't be upset if it rejected and you are told to reformat.
16:32 < LSD-25> since you guys say that those iso creators make mistakes sometimes
16:32 < compdoc> not all
16:33 < oiaohm> redredhathat: ie if a project does not have a written style guide the lead developer might not have decide one yet.   So you might get away with just submitting patch.
16:33 < redredhathat> I already submitted but with the merge i also commented about styling
16:34 < oiaohm> redredhathat: if a project has style guide it basically law.
16:34 < LSD-25> im downloading a debian nonfree live gnome image
16:34 < redredhathat> Yeah i imagine that
16:34 < oiaohm> redredhathat: you break it they will be upset with you.
16:34 < LSD-25> if it boots up i guess linux does work?
16:34 < LSD-25> :/
16:39 < pi-> Is there any merit in the idea of setting up a git repo at the root of my Linux system, so that I can record necessary operations in /etc/apache2, /root /var/www etc?
16:40 < pi-> I think this means I can deploy my web backend on a fresh VMI quite easily.
16:40 < barometz> probably want that to be a little smaller than that
16:40 < barometz> don't keep track of Everything, but instead figure out what needs tracking and be specific
16:41 < pi-> yup, I would only be `git add`-ing relevant files
16:41 < LSD-25> u guise r 2 smart
16:41 < LSD-25> u deserve some acid
16:42 < pi-> I could certainly use some blotter LSD-25
16:43 < LSD-25> yeah me too pi- , but ive been dry for like over a decade lol
16:49 < Sitri> pi-: you're better off confining it to /etc/
16:49 < qman__> pi-: this is the concept behind etckeeper
16:50 < Sitri> And any other heavily text-based directory tree
16:51 < pi-> I'm using the boto3 Python lib to upload files to AWS S3 bucket, which places a public-private keypair file in /root
16:51 < pi-> Also my webroot is /var/www
16:51 < LSD-25> welp, im giving it my best shot, if it doesnt work ill come back with pics
16:51 < LSD-25> thanks all
16:58 < wr> commands inputed on terminal get on a history, want delete some of the list, how can manage that?
16:59 < uplime> it depends on the shell
16:59 < djph> ^
16:59 < uplime> and what you mean by "manage"
16:59 < wr> uplime, in bash
16:59 < uplime> wr: #bash
17:13 < pingfloyd> you could edit ~/.history
17:14 < uplime> pingfloyd: doesn't affect in memory history which is what they were after
17:17 < lopid> whereever i lay [sic] my hat, that's my home
17:37 < ak77> I have curious case of linux networking...  one physical interface (say eth0) and one interface with vlan 10 (say eth0.10). connected to switch, where untagged eth0 goes to internet and eth0.10 is bridged to another port untagged and connected to device B.   while running ping -I eth0.10 IPofB, I can observe ping replies in wireshark while on eth0.10, eth0 (with VLAN headers), but not on ANY.... ping process doesn't get replies (100% p
17:38 < ak77> (iptables are flushed - I think there is no firewall, distribution debian/testing)
17:38 < MrElendig> ak77: your irc client sucks and didn't split your message nor warn you that it was longer than the allowed 512 bytes
17:38 < MrElendig> ak77: so you were cut off at "get replies (100% p"
17:39 < ak77> MrElendig: sorry, thank you for warning
17:39 < ak77> what is curious, ping process doesn't get any replies (100% packet loss) although I can see replies while wiresharking eth0 and eth0.10 (but not on ANY)
17:40 < ak77> I assume kernel is  dropping packets... somewhare
17:40 < ak77> somewhere*
17:41 < ak77> any idea?
17:53 < triceratux> oh whatever. i hope they saved enough cash to buy canonical https://news.microsoft.com/2018/06/04/microsoft-to-acquire-github-for-7-5-billion/
17:54 < MrElendig> triceratux: new stocks apparently, so doesn't actually cost them much at all
17:54 < djph> triceratux: I wouldn't mind selling something for 7.5 billion dollars ...
18:03 < NucWin> when using start-stop-daemon −−background --exec /usr/bin/myapp -- --config=/etc/myapp/app.conf  the args do not get passed to myapp any suggestions?
18:04 < NucWin> this is in an init.d script
18:04 < litltpyro> hi what is the result of umask 0777. im little confused for numbers greater than 6
18:05 < MrElendig> 000
18:05 < ayecee> doesn't seem like a useful umask
18:08 < MrElendig> 777 ^ 777 = 000
18:09 < litltpyro> MrElendig: what would you get if you  777 ^ 666
18:10 < litltpyro> i want the result permission for file
18:10 < ayecee> it's an and operation, isn't it
18:10 < ayecee> oops, not and
18:10 < ayecee> litltpyro: would be 111
18:11 < ayecee> also not very useful
18:11 < litltpyro> ayecee: when i did umask 0777
18:11 < litltpyro> and then touch testfile
18:11 < MrElendig> litltpyro: python3 -c "oct(0o777 ^ 0o666)"
18:11 < litltpyro> ls -l testfile
18:11 < litltpyro> ther permission is ---------
18:11 < ayecee> yeah, that's 000 alright
18:11 < MrElendig> er..  python3 -c "print(oct(0o777 ^ 0o666))"
18:12 < MrElendig> stat -c %a thefile
18:13 < MrElendig> because octal is nicer :p
18:13 < litltpyro> MrElendig: stat showed its 0
18:14 < prussian> 111 might be useful for for hidden directory structure
18:15 < MrElendig> 100 or just 700 would make more sense
18:15 < litltpyro> should i not use 777?
18:15 < prussian> no
18:15 < ayecee> not for umask, no
18:15 < jrgilman> Hey, I was wondering if anyone knew a way to use the input piped into sed as what to replace another value in a file with
18:15 < litltpyro> why so
18:15 < litltpyro> what numbers should i use
18:16 < ayecee> probably 022
18:16 < prussian> oh is this for a umask?
18:16 < ayecee> yes
18:16 < litltpyro> ayecee: is there any limitation or a range that i should use and not use?
18:17 < prussian> depends who is supposed to use this file/dir
18:17 < ayecee> that depends greatly on what you want to accomplish
18:18 < ayecee> but normally it should be 022 or 002 unless you have a really good reason for it to be otherwise.
18:18 < litltpyro> hmm ok
18:22 < Happyhobo> Hi
18:24 < Happyhobo> How are y'all doin'?
18:26 < Trifecta> hello, i tried using this configuration to prevent named-based access on ssl reverse proxied sites, but it completely blocks every connection to any site when trying on port :443 https://serverfault.com/questions/583884/apache-listen-only-on-specific-domain-not-ip
18:26 < Trifecta> does anybody know why/how i need to implement this? thanks in advance
18:27 < Trifecta> I'm running apache 2.4.25(Debian)
18:29 < LSD-25> well i got as far as the grub installation part, it totally started blinking on me, and im back on windows for some reason
18:30 < LSD-25> though the installation ran thru, my computer can not disable secure boot
18:30 < LSD-25> its not optional to turn it off
18:31 < Trifecta> this is my current apache vhost config: https://paste.linux.community/view/f9c20e6f
18:31 < LSD-25> i dont think i could install linux at all on this system
18:32 < Trifecta> What would i need to change so that only https://archive.domain.com gives back a valid connection, and any IP/other named based access on 443 gets ignored?
18:32 < Trifecta> is it even possible on ssl? i know it works on http(80)
18:34 < GunqqerFriithian> so I haven't used `xset mouse` much, would this https://pastebin.com/MdPy5XTy work in changing the sensitivity?
18:35 < LSD-25> im going to wipe my entire drive into unallocated space, then try to install linux again
18:36 < LSD-25> maybe its because of boot sector stuff
18:36 < LSD-25> i was able to run a non-free install and it was working good, but at the end it just started flashing and i had to restart the pc, and im back on windows
18:37 < LSD-25> dont even think it installed properly
18:37 < GunqqerFriithian> what distro?
18:37 < LSD-25> debian 64bit
18:37 < LSD-25> netinstall using a paired usb drive with the firmware inside of it
18:38 < LSD-25> on cd
18:38 < Trifecta> does anyone have any suggestions?
18:38 < LSD-25> and im actually thinking of trying fedora, because i think its capable of secure boot
18:46 < djph> Trifecta: what do you mean?
18:47 < djph> Trifecta: oh, so that the server ONLY responds if you type https://achive.yourdomain.com (and https://yourdomain.com goes nowhere)?
18:47 < bls> or do you want an IP filter on all traffic to port 443 except for that host?
18:49 < Trifecta> djph: yes exactly
18:49 < Trifecta> djph: the current config works for 80 without ssl, but ssl seems to need a little more
18:50 < Trifecta> bls: I'm not sure if it would be possible to block any connection from 443 when using anything beside https://archive.domain.com on that IP
18:51 < Trifecta> bls:that would also be fine, if it is possible of course
18:51 < brutser> can someone please please help me get sound to work with centos7,kvm-libvirt,virt-manager, been trying this for days now :/
18:52 < Trifecta> djph: Since paste.linux.community seems to break the url, here is a pastebin link to my current config https://pastebin.com/h4kX8KgA
18:52 < Trifecta> djph: if i comment the above virtualhost it works, it if enable it i get "no secure connection possible with this site"
18:53 < Trifecta> s/it if/if
18:53 < bls> ah, so you're asking for help with apache, not linux
18:53 < Trifecta> bls: yes, I wasn't able to find a channel directy for apache
18:53 < bls> #httpd
18:53 < Trifecta> oh
18:54 < Trifecta> I'll try there too
18:54 < Trifecta> thx
18:54 < kryptynasium> Given <package> is installed in /opt - choose log dir: [1]/var/log/<package-name>/ [2]/var/opt/<package-name>/log/ [3]/opt/var/<package-name>/log
18:55 < kryptynasium> I wish I could do a twitter kind of voting for 1,2 or 3
18:55 < bls> unless that package installs its own syslog or expects total control of the directory hierarchy, /var/log
18:56 < kryptynasium> bls: /var/log is what I am hearing most
18:57 < bls> it's going to be the location of least surprise
18:57 < kryptynasium> bls: Agreed
19:04 < Trifecta> bls: thanks, they've helped solving this issue
19:06 < Happyhobo> hi folks
19:06 < Happyhobo> antergos is very windows like imho.  Is this a bad thing?
19:07 < dgurney> what?
19:07 < dgurney> how?
19:07 < dgurney> it's just arch with a nice installer
19:07 < dgurney> and a nice default theme iirc
19:07 < dgurney> how's that Windows-like?
19:08 < Happyhobo> everything is gui and really easy
19:08 < oerheks> does it have a 'start' button?
19:08 < dgurney> Happyhobo, that's not a Windows-specific thing
19:08 < bls> that's the DE, not the distro
19:09 < dgurney> plus that
19:09 < Happyhobo> If I chose cinnamon it would oerheks
19:09 < Happyhobo> maybe I need to focus on learning some cli so I don't feel so dumb and helpless
19:10 < dgurney> there's nothing dumb about not knowing cli
19:10 < dgurney> that said, on linux and other unix-like systems it's worth it
19:10 < Happyhobo> even gnome is easy to use once you wander around the screen clicking here and there.
19:11 < LSD-25> lollllll
19:11 < LSD-25> noobcakes XD
19:11 < djph> well, that's your problem
19:11 < LSD-25> jk
19:11 < djph> you can't "click" in the ttys
19:11 < LSD-25> lololol
19:11 < LSD-25> yeah you cant click in vi dude
19:11 < LSD-25> kek
19:12 < Happyhobo> the gui desktop not vi or ttys
19:12 < MrElendig> you can in vim
19:12 < MrElendig> in tty
19:12 < LSD-25> lol thats vim
19:12 < MrElendig> (requires horrible gpm)
19:12 < Happyhobo> The flavor they have that is the easiest in my opinion is cinnamon.
19:13 < Happyhobo> That's too simple.  That damn thing does make me feel brain dead.
19:13 < koala_man> Happyhobo: you totally should. bash is like the Excel of files and text. so flexible and powerful
19:13 < GunqqerFriithian> only way to close vim is to restart computer send help :P
19:14 < djph> GunqqerFriithian: instructions unclear, stuck in emacs.
19:14 < GunqqerFriithian> lol
19:14 < GunqqerFriithian> I personally use nano as I don't need anything more than what nano provides
19:15 < djph> an anneurism?
19:15 < MrElendig> GunqqerFriithian: :help!
19:15 < MrElendig> (in vim)
19:15 < koala_man> GunqqerFriithian: no one ever thought they needed cars or smart phones until they tried them
19:15 < GunqqerFriithian> with nano for a while I was ^w y enter'ing a long time until I discovered ^o
19:15 < ayecee> i'm still not convinced
19:15 < GunqqerFriithian> eh, I have no use to waste time on the learning curve of vim as I don't have much use
19:16 < ayecee> you are a very busy person whose time is very important
19:16 < triceratux> escape colon q bang enter <-- spread the word far & wide
19:16 < Happyhobo> What do y'all think is the easiest de/wm?  I'm laying my money down on cinnamon then xfce.
19:17 < GunqqerFriithian> ctrl alt t, sudo pkill -u $(user). That should exit vi
19:17 < GunqqerFriithian> vim
19:18 < Happyhobo> WINDOWMAKER FOR THE WIN!
19:18 < triceratux> Lubuntu 18.10 lxqt with IceWM :P
19:20 < Happyhobo> good one triceratux
19:20 < Happyhobo> crystal fvwm
19:20 < NinCollin> there should be a modern linux distro with FVWM95
19:21 < bls> there are distros that don't have it?
19:22 < Happyhobo>  remember the pink wonder beginning page for fvwm.  FVWM is supposed to be the granddaddy of all the others.
19:22 < NinCollin> https://repology.org/metapackage/fvwm95/versions
19:22 < NinCollin> not even in AUR
19:23 < courrier> Is this command valid to send UDP data from bash? Wireshark does not sniff any outgoing packet: `echo "TEST" > /dev/udp/192.168.1.50/33400`
19:23 < Happyhobo> I made a wicked setup with AS2 and as everyone knows it's the direct child of fvwm without watering down.  With fvwm you can do anything you can ever want to do.
19:24 < linux_dream> ive heard microsoft bought github.  this means that microsoft hosts the linux source code now? wow
19:24 < dgurney> nope
19:24 < bls> linux_dream: no
19:24 < dgurney> the linux github page is just a mirror
19:24 < linux_dream> how come?
19:24 < linux_dream> ah
19:24 < linux_dream> ok
19:24 < bls> github != git
19:24 < hehehe> hi
19:24 < linux_dream> phew I can breathe again
19:24 < hehehe> sdfl
19:24 < linux_dream> thanks guys
19:25 < hehehe> :D
19:25 < hehehe> nothing in syslog yet sftp foes not woek
19:25 < hehehe> work
19:25 < hehehe> where can I check?
19:25 < pentallelogram> sits on #linux ... doesn't know kernel.org
19:25 < bls> sftp most likely logs to /var/log/secure on a non-systemd distro
19:25 < hehehe> its ubuntu
19:25 < hehehe> so it is systemd
19:27 < hehehe> I will check sshd config
19:28 < hehehe> what a day
19:28 < hehehe> :D
19:28 < hehehe> why o why it is disabled by defaul
19:28 < hehehe> some %^&* security police
19:28 < hehehe> policy
19:29 < hehehe> permit root login is yes
19:29 < hehehe> what else can uit be
19:33 < GunqqerFriithian> So Ubuntu compiles OpenSSL in a way that doesn't have certan functionality that it seems freenode uses for SSL so I can't connect while on my VPN. How would I fix this (I just want to be able to use my VPN and this channel a thte same time)
19:36 < bls> GunqqerFriithian: #freenode might know if they require a special config for openssl
19:36 < oerheks> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/sasl
19:37 < oerheks> no problem here with Ubuntu
19:37 < GunqqerFriithian> I'm also using KVIrc, and I did find an issue on github about this very thing
19:37 < likcoras> GunqqerFriithian: to check if it's strictly an openssl problem, I'd try seeing if `openssl s_client -connect $ip:$port errors out.
19:38 < likcoras> Probably not the case, I'd think, though.
19:38 < brutser> got my libvirt issue kinda solved -> by installing pulseaudio on the guest, me and my helper are not sure why guest needs pulseaudio, does spice need it? any ideas?
19:39 < brutser> got sound throughput now, so im not complaining, just trying to understand why install pulseaudio on guest was needed
19:39 < GunqqerFriithian> https://github.com/kvirc/KVIrc/issues/2089
19:39 < klemax>  whats the reason of freezing after logout? is this related to the kde or Xorg?
19:39 < GunqqerFriithian> that's the issue that relates to my problem
19:41 < oerheks> 2 year old bug.. what version are you using now?
19:41 < GunqqerFriithian> 2 year old bug that was closed with out any resolution
19:42 < oerheks> are you here for small-talk, or a solution/answer?
19:43 < NGC3982> im running smb behind nat, and in my lan i have various troubles reaching the network share on windows computers. it works on some, and not on others. the error is that it cannot reach the local ip with an un-googlable windows error code.
19:43 < GunqqerFriithian> oh I'm here just to talk about the problem I want solved rather than wanting it solved
19:43 < GunqqerFriithian> that was sarcasam
19:44 < NGC3982> any suggestions on what can be faulty, and if its in any way connected to how i have configured smb?
19:44 < likcoras> That issue seems to (I only skimmed it) say that it's because of the server using SSL and not TLS, am I getting it right?
19:45 < likcoras> That issue seems unrelated, SSL is widely unsupported nowadays and freenode offers TLS1.2.
19:52 < GunqqerFriithian> likcoras: That issue describes the problem I seem to have right now, all the info I have gotten is from that
19:52 < likcoras> GunqqerFriithian: what is the exact error you're seeing?
19:53 < GunqqerFriithian> what the github issue has is what I have
19:54 < GunqqerFriithian> gtg
20:02 < phinxy> GTK = GNU not Unix Image Manipulator Program Toolkit ?
20:02 < Psi-Jack> No.
20:02 < Psi-Jack> GIMP ToolKit
20:03 < phinxy> hehe!!!
20:03 < pankaj> I have two partitions each with size 100G. The problem is that first is being used by me and other is empty. I need to have another OS in virtual machine in first partition that I am using. But the space is less. Can anybody have some solution please.
20:05 < RayTracer> remove 2nd partition, enlarge 1st partition, enlarge fs, create image file on it
20:05 < RayTracer> pankaj: ^^
20:07 < pankaj> RayTracer: I am sorry, it is my mistake. Actually their are three to four partition and 1st and 2nd partition have Linux OS installed on each and third one is free. And fourth is swap space.
20:08 < RayTracer> pankaj: format p3 and mount it somewhere, then put image file on it
20:10 < pankaj> RayTracer: 'put image file on it'?
20:10 < RayTracer> that hosts the vm os
20:11 < pankaj> RayTracer: Does it mean formatting the third partition with ext4 then mounting it and copying all files form first partition to third and then when it works, remove first partition.
20:12 < pankaj> RayTracer: Oh! I am very sorry, I meant something very different . I just realised what you are trying to say.
20:16 < RayTracer> eg. I use LVM and have raid5/vm mounted on /data/vm and all qemu images are located there in further directory structure
20:17 < TyrfingMjolnir> How can I find and remove records theat starts with abc?
20:17 < TyrfingMjolnir> I tried find -name ^abc* to no avail
20:17 < RayTracer> find . -name abc\*
20:18 < TyrfingMjolnir> That gives me too many records
20:18 < TyrfingMjolnir> So will have to do some sort of xargs or exec
20:18 < koala_man> what's a record? is it the same as a file?
20:18 < TyrfingMjolnir> I assum so
20:18 < koala_man> k
20:18 < TyrfingMjolnir> As it works on a small sample in /tmp/
20:18 < RayTracer> looks like output of other commands.. I don't know that message from find
20:19 < RayTracer> TyrfingMjolnir: please provide complete command line you use (pastebin if it's long)
20:20 < TyrfingMjolnir> find . -name abc\*
20:21 < RayTracer> never had that
20:22 < TyrfingMjolnir> These are numberous logfiles
20:23 < TyrfingMjolnir> I would like to delete the older ones.
20:24 < ayecee> what is the rest of the command
20:24 < ayecee> that gives you "too many records"
20:29 < ayecee> and he was never heard from again
20:29 < siikamiika> how can I get a by-id symlink for a uinput device? I'm currently creating a file to /tmp/ that contains the path to the correct device at /dev/input/eventN but that feels hacky
20:29 < TyrfingMjolnir> ayecee: -exec rm -fr {}
20:29 < siikamiika> I can't create the symlink from the code that creates the device because it's used by another user that won't have permissions to use it
20:30 < TyrfingMjolnir> or -exec echo {} \;
20:30 < ayecee> okay, now what was the full command that gives you "too many records"
20:31 < TyrfingMjolnir> find . -name abc\* -exec echo {} \;
20:31 < ayecee> ok, what was the actual error message
20:34 < HyP3r> Is there a way to autoremount samba shares? The samba server is sometimes restarting or even both the client and the server are restarting and with fstab it doesn't get restarted
20:34 < HyP3r> *remounted
20:34 < HyP3r> Does that work with https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Autofs/?
20:34 < jim> TyrfingMjolnir, could the error message you got have been stated in a language other than english?
20:35 < ayecee> i bet the actual command had abc* rather than abc\*
20:36 < lnnb> we'll give you 3:1 odds
20:36 < pankaj> RayTracer: OK. Thanks, Sometimes solution is near but still..........
20:36 < jim> I'll wager 42 quatloos on the newcomer!
20:37 < ayecee> is that a canadian unit of currency
20:37 < jim> (it's my life savings)
20:38 < geirha> put me up for Ɖ10
20:38 < RayTracer> my pet currency is wtf/min
20:38 < geirha> (what are we betting on?)
20:38 < ayecee> whether a seashell is more orthogonal than a grape
20:38 < RayTracer> s/currency/unit/
20:38 < TyrfingMjolnir> ayecee: It's not in English
20:38 < ayecee> TyrfingMjolnir: so what
20:38 < TyrfingMjolnir> I believe the cause is too many lines of output from find
20:39 < ayecee> no, that's not the cause
20:39 < TyrfingMjolnir> And that each line of output will have to execute the command separately in its own spawned process
20:40 < RayTracer> which is why it doesn't have issues usually
20:41 < phogg> TyrfingMjolnir: in the first place GNU find knows -delete allowing you to avoid the extra call to rm
20:41 < nbah> hello
20:41 < jim> hi
20:42 < phogg> TyrfingMjolnir: in the second place if you do -exec rm -f {} + then rm will be executed as few times as possible to remove all of the matched files. -exec only does one-rm-per-file if you use the form: -exec rm -f {} \;
20:42 < phogg> so you should not do that
20:42 < ayecee> however, both of these solve a different problem than he's having.
20:43 < phogg> TyrfingMjolnir: if you want you can make GNU find match via regular expression, as you were originally trying, using -regex instead of -name. See also -regextype to control which dialect is used.
20:44 < phogg> TyrfingMjolnir: it sounds like your real problem, however, is that you want "old" logfiles. How do you know which ones are old?
20:46 < TyrfingMjolnir> I can use -delete then
20:46 < TyrfingMjolnir> Like this: find . -name abc\* -delete  ?
20:47 < ayecee> try it and see
20:48 < phogg> TyrfingMjolnir: Be careful. There is *NO* safety net. You should run without -delete first to make sure everything that matches your query is really something you want to delete.
20:50 < phogg> TyrfingMjolnir: the two patterns most commonly encountered for people wanting to delete old log files are: delete log files older than a specific date, or delete the oldest N log files. Do either of these sound like you?
20:54 < nbah> {ESL here} please consider fault write→ keyboard is [troublesome] detected on usb hub, some in and out on netbook port, makes it work. That made dmesg list it twice: in this log, there are usb 1-1 (hub) and its subs .2 (mouse) and .3 (keyb). Then 'keyb' have two 'input:' lines, same one, diff. IDs in /devices/, hidraw and usb-.../inputN. Should clear one out? How to?
20:55 < ayecee> no, it will go away on its own
20:56 < nbah> it won't. how to do it? оr leave it?
20:57 < ayecee> leave it
20:57 < MrElendig> if it works, don't mess with it
20:58 < nbah> much appreciate your endeavor, have a great day!
20:58 < nbah> bye
21:08 < simcop2387> Any recommendations for doing backups other than just scripting around rsync? Basically I've got a server I want to backup to another server and be semi-easy to restore.  My plan is to turn the backups into incremental ones using zfs snapshots if i'm using rsync but something that handles more of that for me would be nice.
21:09 < Dominian> I really like borgbackup
21:09 < compdoc> simcop2387, why not script with a professional backup program? bacula
21:10 < Dominian> bacula can be overkill
21:10 < phogg> simcop2387: what are you optimizing for? Low archival disk space requirements? Small size on the wire? Low CPU usage during backup? What's important to you?
21:10 < simcop2387> compdoc: because i didn't know it existed
21:10 < phogg> I should add "fast restoration?" as another common one
21:10 < Dominian> bacula is nice, but a bit overkill in some scenarios.  borgbackup is easily scripted and does data deduplication and compression, works very well.
21:11 < compdoc> bacula backs up my personal pc the the ubuntu servers I have in the garage
21:11 < compdoc> but I know a little scripting
21:11 < phogg> simcop2387: basically, tally up the behaviors you want and then find a backup tool/suite that gives you the all of them (or as close as you can come)
21:12 < simcop2387> phogg: small size on the wire is likely to be the most relavent, but there aren't many things i want to optimize for.  main things are robustness, easy recovery if the backup software fails or corrupts things, and easy maintenece (hence why i'd rather something other than just zfs+rsync, since maintaining permissions and other bits is a pain that way).  basically i've got a VPS and want to
21:12 < simcop2387> regularly back it up to my home NAS
21:12 < phogg> for me being able to restore a single file **FAST** trumps everything else, including the need to store multiple versions. Some people don't care about that. What makes a backup system good is a very personal thing.
21:12 < simcop2387> obviously optimizing for those other things isn't a bad thing.  but they aren't likely going to be something i seek out for this.
21:13 < simcop2387> borg and bacula certainly look like decent places to start.
21:14 < TR1950X> what is a good alternative to Github?
21:14 < justsomeguy> phogg:  I often need to restore just one file, too. So, I'm curious. What do you use for backup?
21:15 < simcop2387> TR1950X: depends on your needs obviously.  but for self hosting, i've been using gitea, it's a fork of gogs (also good).  if you need hosted, gitlab, bitbucket and even sourceforge (though the least of them) are alternatives.
21:15 < phogg> justsomeguy: I just use straight rsync
21:15 < justsomeguy> That works.
21:15  * justsomeguy uses dar most of the time.
21:15 < Sitri> +1 for rsync
21:16 < simcop2387> in my backup case, i need to be able to preserve users and permissions, which is doable with rsync but annoying.
21:17 < hexnewbie> simcop2387: Annoying?
21:18 < TR1950X> thanks simcop2387
21:18 < TR1950X> think I will migrate my projects to gitlab
21:18 < phogg> TR1950X: you and everybody else
21:18 < simcop2387> TR1950X: google a little, they have a github importer
21:18  * hexnewbie doesn't find -aSSHAX annoying.
21:18 < jada> hey, I'm trying to sed that line: DEFINE USE_HPET_TIMER                   = FALSE
21:18 < simcop2387> hexnewbie: needs root or CAP_SYS_ADMIN on the receiving side to set the users and permissions
21:18 < uplime> triceratux: im migrating to gitlab right now
21:18 < jada> I've done sed -i -e 's/DEFINE USE_HPET_TIMER\s= FALSE/DEFINE USE_HPET_TIMER = TRUE/g' filename
21:18 < jada> it's not catching though, what did I do wrong?
21:19 < phogg> hexnewbie: do it from multiple systems that don't synchronize passwd.
21:19 < simcop2387> phogg's comment too
21:19 < ayecee> jada: what is the \s supposed to be?
21:19 < phogg> jada: First, don't use sed -i. Second, REALLY do not test with sed -i.
21:19 < jada> ayecee catch any amount of whitespaces
21:19 < ayecee> jada: that sounds like it may be a perlism
21:19 < Sitri> Catches one qhitespace actually
21:19 < kurahaupo> jada: use standard regular expressions rather than pcre
21:20 < ayecee> i think sed expresses character classes differently.
21:20 < hexnewbie> simcop2387: --fake-super
21:20 < phogg> jada: sed does not understand \s in all versions.
21:20 < jada> so what should I use instead of \s for matching any amount of whitespaces?
21:20 < phogg> jada: you should use [[:space:]]+ instead (this is POSIX)
21:20 < kurahaupo> jada: PCRE \s is ERE [[:space:]]
21:21 < jim> if zero spaces is a possibility, then you want [[:space:]]*
21:21 < kurahaupo> jada: but that's any single whitespace character; for "any amount" append *
21:21 < hexnewbie> Or just use Perl, which is the same everywhere. ;p
21:22 < phogg> jada: for your case I would just do this: sed -e '/DEFINE USE_HPET_TIMEER/s/ = FALSE/= TRUE/'
21:22 < jada> so just use * instead?
21:22 < jada> phogg didn't know I could do that
21:22 < kurahaupo> Instead of what?
21:22 < jada> kurahaupo instead of [[:space:]]*
21:23 < Evidlo> PCRE is the best of all the flavors
21:23 < jim> jada, if zero spaces is a possibility, yes, * means "repeat 0 or more times"
21:23 < jim> + means "repeat 1 or more times"
21:24 < ayecee> s/repeat/match/
21:24 < jim> yeah
21:24 < jada> ok so that works now. What about -i?
21:24 < phogg> jada: in many cases you can just use Perl instead: perl -pe 's/DEFINE USE_HPET_TIMER\s= FALSE/DEFINE USE_HPET_TIMER = TRUE/g' filename # you don't get -i behavior with this, though
21:25 < phogg> jada: -i is problematic. You can use it if you really must, but redirecting to a new file and using mv to replace the original is more portable.
21:25 < phogg> Evidlo: No, perl6 is the best of all favors.
21:26 < jim> like chocolate on steroids
21:26 < jim> but without the calories
21:26 < phogg> Slow but delicious.
21:27 < jada> '/DEFINE USE_HPET_TIMER/s/ = FALSE/= TRUE/' <- that one adds extra ^M character at the end of line
21:27 < jada> which seems like Windows new line
21:27 < dunpeal> Hi. I'm trying to fix a failure to automount. When I run `mount`, I get a line that looks like: `auto.grid on /grid ...`
21:27 < phogg> jada: it does not add it, it just will not remove it if it is there
21:27 < dunpeal> However, there's no file on /grid
21:27 < phogg> jada: if your file has Windows line endings you should probably fix that in any case
21:28 < jada> phogg it's edk2 file, I don't really control it, I just use it as a customer
21:28 < jada> they did plenty of really bad things in edk2
21:28 < phogg> jada: so then you don't want the line endings modified? If not it's already working correctly.
21:29 < jada> I guess, I will try to build it. Git highlighted the ^M, so I thought initially that line ending changed
21:37 < fragment3> Is it possible to get ftrace / perf output to show the contents of a string that is being read using open()/write() - similar to how strace displays it
21:42 < phogg> it's amazing, although not surprising, how slow gitlab is today
21:44 < Evidlo> I read the thing in multiple HN comments today
21:51 < Evidlo> phogg: so what is the perl6 regex dialect called? perl6? nqp?
22:02 < Psi-Jack> Man... Upgrading ancient debian/* control/rules/compat files from sarge to stretch is a PITA. LOL
22:03 < djph> updating anything to anything is a pita
22:03 < Psi-Jack> heh
22:03 < djph> ... moreso when systemd is involved ...
22:03 < Psi-Jack> Not so much on that.
22:04 < phogg> Evidlo: perl6 regex rules are part of the perl6 language. NQP is an implementation of a useful subset. See https://docs.perl6.org/language/regexes and https://docs.perl6.org/language/grammars
22:06 < justsomeguy> I kind of wish perl6 didn't lose popularity. It seems like a very useful language.
22:07 < phogg> Evidlo: the regex changes make regular expressions less like line noise, the grammars make building real parsers reasonably easy.
22:07 < phogg> justsomeguy: It's only been "out" since December 2016, really. It didn't so much lose popularity as it has yet to gain any.
22:07 < justsomeguy> I didn't know it was that recent.
22:09 < phogg> justsomeguy: I'm sorry, I should have said 2015 not 2016.
22:09 < kurahaupo> phogg: how is "out" defined? It's been in α-release for about 10 years?
22:10 < phogg> kurahaupo: The language is stable and an implementation which includes a reasonable proportion of its features is also stable.
22:11 < phogg> so to be clear the *specification* for the language stopped changing in December 2015. The Rakudo implementation is not quite complete, but only some more esoteric features are missing. Performance is a work in progress.
22:13 < BenderRodriguez> Crazy question
22:13 < phogg> I'm not crazy you're crazy.
22:13 < qman__> perl5 is the one that's been around for ages
22:13 < BenderRodriguez> Can Memtest be set to test a specific RAM or is that abstracted away and it's unable to determine which stick a given address lies
22:13 < BenderRodriguez> maybe there's a lower level application that can do this
22:13 < BenderRodriguez> perhaps?
22:15 < lukey_> BenderRodriguez: The way to do memtest is to remove one stick at a time and see if the error goes away.
22:15 < ayecee> no, that's not so hard. what would be hard is saying where that stick is physically located on the board.
22:16 < phogg> you can probably probe a slot number
22:16 < simcop2387> Dominian: borg is looking like it'll be a fantastic way to handle it.  Still have to set it up and try it but it ticks all the boxes i wanted, and then some more i think.
22:16 < Dominian> simcop2387: Yeah I love it.
22:16 < ayecee> mapping a slot number to a physical slot would still be a problem.
22:16 < lukey_> Also Dual- and Tripple- Channel would interleave between sticks
22:18  * lukey_ waits for qemu to compile on this thinclient
22:19 < Loshki> BenderRodriguez: I would do binary chop with the sticks. If your memory fails early on into the memtest, that's a gift.
22:20 < Dan39> using ip commands, is there a special device name that means "all devices"? like when doing `ip neigh del 192.168.1.2` it says it requires a device argument also. if i use `arp -d 192.168.1.2` that works fine though
22:21 < Dan39> it must be possible if the arp command does it :P
22:22 < kazdax> what programming language should i learn
22:22 < kazdax> i feel to sleepy
22:22 < leopard> lukey_: what are the specs on the thinclient?
22:22 < kazdax> i cant even notice the difference between black and white
22:23 < kazdax> lets beat them to a pulp
22:24 < lukey_> leopard: 1,2 GHz singlecore, 2Gb Ram. Supports virtualisation tough, so I'll do a long-term test of qemu-colo https://wiki.qemu.org/Features/COLO
22:24 < EdePopede> kazdax: in this case, whitespace
22:24 < phogg> kazdax: perl6!
22:26 < leopard> lukey_: interesting. is this virtualized across thin clients, or multiple vms on the one machine just for testing
22:27 < lukey_> leopard: Across two Thinclients of cource. I have nothing here that supports nested VM's
22:29 < lukey_> Let's see how much uptime I'll get for the VM :)
22:29 < leopard> what service are you running on it
22:36 < lukey_> I dunno, probably irssi or an X2Go Terminalserver (on a Thinclient HA-Cluster, yep...)
22:42 < treefrob> networking 101: if I create a sub-NIC that does vlan-tagging using something like "ip link add link enp98s0f2 name ssp1 type vlan id 167" and then add this to a "brctl" bridge, all taps added to that bridge will "be" in the corresponding vlan, right?
22:42 < treefrob> that should be "all *other* taps added to that bridge..."
23:01 < loginoob> Hello, I mostly use ubuntu for personal use. I am not a power linux user, just know basic commands. Recently at my work i have to use macOS. I want to uunderstand why people who are power users of linux prefers linux over macOS.
23:01 < DLange> because they are more in control of the OS, loginoob
23:02 < DLange> MacOS is nicely polished for the use case it is intended for
23:02 < DLange> but everything else is really hard
23:02 < Cyrum> Hola!
23:02 < Cyrum> Hows everybody doing on this fine monday?
23:03 < loginoob> DLange So to understand properly what more in control means i would have to learn linux in deep
23:03 < leopard> Existential, you?
23:03 < MrElendig> loginoob: https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup/videos  might interest you
23:03 < leopard> loginoob: almost all system level software on linux is open source, which is not the case for macos
23:03 < DLange> yes, loginoob, the entry barrier is much higher than Mac OS but then you will also never need to queue at the Genius bar
23:04 < jim> loginoob, well if we're comparing, with macos, you make a legal agreement... (I guess you do also with linux, but in that case the agreement gives you more freedom, not less)
23:05 < loginoob> I see
23:05 < Cyrum> @leopard peachy!
23:05 < jim> loginoob, what do you like to do with your install of linux?
23:05 < leopard> no need for '@' on IRC
23:06 < loginoob> jim learn Common lisp and emacs
23:06 < jim> ok... did you do SICP?
23:07 < jim> (Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs)
23:07 < loginoob> jim no, I'm learning from the book named Common lisp: a gentle introduction to symbolic computation
23:08 < jim> what do you like about lisp?
23:08 < Cyrum> when did fake it till you make it go out of fashion?
23:09 < microcolonel> howdy folks
23:09 < jim> hi
23:09 < Loshki> Cyrum: the current political climate is now 'fake it while you flub it'
23:09 < loginoob> I came to know that most of the features in programming languages are borrowed from lisp and also it being highly praised language i got interested in learning it
23:09 < loginoob> jim
23:10 < jim> yep, that's true
23:10 < loginoob> I read 5 chapters from the book and i loved the learning
23:10 < jim> hmm... what's your math background like?
23:11 < loginoob> I would say not that good
23:11 < jim> ok... what was the last math class you took?
23:11 < leopard> might want to read the wikipedia page on lambda calculus
23:12 < loginoob> Some advanced algebra and calculus
23:12 < microcolonel> if I want to maximize the contiguity of filesystem writes (that is, several open files writing a few blocks worth at the same time, but over a period of seconds, get ordered globally across those seconds) with no regard for filesystem integrity or sync latency, what would be a good choice of filesystem and configuration?
23:13 < ayecee> microcolonel: that's kind of what modern filesystems are already designed to do.
23:13 < leopard> start by telling us what you're trying to do microcolonel
23:13 < microcolonel> ayecee: how do I set it up to wait literally like... 20 seconds before deciding write order?
23:13 < microcolonel> I am setting up syncthing nodes
23:13 < loginoob> jim should i learn math more. Why did you asked about maths?
23:13 < microcolonel> I generally don't care if some of them fail to sync things
23:14 < microcolonel> I want to minimize seeking to maximize drive life.
23:14 < ayecee> microcolonel: is this currently a problem, or a premature optimization?
23:14 < jim> no, I'm not saying that... I just got curious
23:14 < microcolonel> ayecee: it's a known access pattern, and known result, which I'd like to have a handle on
23:14 < ayecee> ext4 filesystem, for example, preallocates storage and does lazy allocation.
23:14 < loginoob> Ok
23:14 < microcolonel> right, but it'll try to sync in a handful of seconds, generally
23:15 < jim> a lot of programming isn't about math anyway
23:15 < ayecee> sure, but it doesn't put the files back to back, so there isn't the problem with fragmentation.
23:15 < kryptynasium> My own custom ODBC driver works fine with isql. I am having trouble running with sqlplus using Oracle heterogeneous services). Interested to debug with GDB. I noticed isql and Oracle send different ODBC calls to unix ODBC. I wrote custom C++ program to replicate ODBC calls sent by Oracle. However, my custom program also works. I am sure ODBC driver developers would have some way of debugging and getting their drivers right so 
23:15 < microcolonel> it can become a problem, as utilization gets higher
23:16 < ayecee> an application could improve that further by using fadvise() to tell the kernel how it's going to be using the file.
23:16 < jim> (I mean, some is, like physics simulation games and stuff like that, but there's a lot of it that has nothing to do with math)
23:17 < microcolonel> ayecee: that helps with reads, but less so with writes
23:17 < microcolonel> erh, not at all with writes I should say
23:17 < microcolonel> but yeah, fadvise would be a good addition
23:18 < jim> loginoob, see if you like this (watch the first video): book: https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html, video lects: http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-001-structure-and-interpretation-of-computer-programs-spring-2005/video-lectures/
23:18 < microcolonel> it would certainly help with read seeking, given a specific allocation
23:18 < ayecee> microcolonel: this is basically a non-issue unless the filesystem is very very full
23:18 < loginoob> Right, I need to be good enough in maths to learn data structures in functional programming jim
23:18 < ayecee> we're not in the old dos fat days.
23:19 < jim> loginoob, not necessarily
23:19 < qman__> loginoob: if you can count, add, and subtract, you're pretty much there
23:20 < jim> how having said that, some books on data structures "lean" on math, maybe too much so
23:20 < loginoob> Oh ok
23:20 < qman__> general programming doesn't require much math at all, it requires logic
23:20 < jim> like Sedgewick, for example
23:22 < loginoob> After completing the book my next target would be to learn data structures and implement them in CL. The CL irc community is great and super helpful
23:23 < kryptynasium> loginoob: CL?
23:23 < loginoob> Common lisp kryptynasium
23:23 < microcolonel> ayecee: mmk, I'll get back to you in three years when I get my first failure. ;- )
23:23 < microcolonel> I'll make sure to keep a good trace of the activity
23:24 < ayecee> i'm sure you will
23:24 < jim> loginoob, getting back to your original question, macos is now based on real unix, so -potentially- you could run CL, gcc and most of the stuff we run on linux
23:24 < jim> so at that point, there's not much of a difference
23:25 < loginoob> Ok, When does the difference comes
23:25 < jim> well one major difference is that linux uses the x window system
23:25 < leopard> loginoob: for learning purposes, there's no differnce in running on a shell on a linux machine or in macos
23:26 < jim> well, that is, most linux distributions do
23:26 < jim> macos uses its own display system
23:27 < loginoob> So it mainly comes down to how much control a user has on the system
23:28 < jim> well put it this way: I run linux because it lets me do what I want on my computer, and I don't make agreements with microsoft or apple
23:29 < dannylee> hi
23:29 < leopard> that, and the vast majority of software is open source
23:29 < loginoob> Ok
23:31 < kryptynasium> Since the early days of computing - computers were meant to serve you. Not do anything without your knowing or permission.
23:31 < revel> That's still mostly true, except the "you" has been muddied a bit.
23:33 < kryptynasium> Linux has stayed true to that model. On most systems - the default setting is "steal". Until you realize OMG - "disable disable disable"!
23:34 < kryptynasium> No OS is as transparent as Linux
23:35 < rascul> ubuntu had spyware enabled by default at one time
23:35 < jim> DearPleasure, hi... if you'd like to be able to speak here, you need to register your nick with freenode services... you can get help for that in #freenode
23:35 < Sitri> IMO the *BSDs are just as much if not more so
23:36 < badsekter> the real reason we use linux though is that it is cool, elite, and a great hobby
23:36 < leopard> where does elite come into play
23:37 < badsekter> because it is difficult to use, and you need to invest time to learn it, so it is not for everybody
23:37 < leopard> that makes a lot of things elite. like knitting
23:37 < leopard> or basketweaving
23:38 < badsekter> good point
23:39 < djph> ugh, goddamn, how did grub get this fubar :(
23:41 < ayecee> are you saying basketweaving isn't elite
23:41 < leopard> yes
23:41  * leopard looks around nervously
23:42  * ayecee gets the pitchforks
23:42  * leopard quickly weaves a shield from straw
23:42 < djph> hey now, my wife's elite at her crochet ...
23:43 < djph> and that etch-a-sketch I replaced her computer with ...
23:43 < badsekter> maybe it is elite among housewives, but for us nerds there are different standards
23:43 < ayecee> iEtch
23:43 < leopard> they make cream for that ayecee
23:43 < djph> haha
23:44 < djph> she'd murder you in your sleep if she ever heard you calling her "a housewife"
23:44 < badsekter> lol
23:45 < ayecee> those crochet needles are deadly weapons
23:46 < ayecee> (hooks?)
23:46 < ayecee> i know nothing
23:46 < mirak> is it possible to rename root ?
23:46 < ayecee> anything's possible, but a lot of those things are still pretty silly.
23:46 < Sitri> The user?  You could, but it's very likely to break certain things.
23:47 < Sitri> RE: renaming root
23:47 < Pentode> i dont know why but now im craving croquettes...
23:47 < leopard> why do you want to rename root?
23:47 < ayecee> for some terrible reason. sometimes it's better not to ask.
23:48 < Pentode> yeah i would leave root alone
23:48 < leopard> I'm curious. I still have 8 lives to go anyways
23:51 < may-day> can you `crontab -e` but pass it a file as `crontab -e <file`
23:54 < lopid> man crontab
23:54 < DLange> may-day: crontab -i file or - from stdin
23:54 < leopard> may-day: you're better off editing your file first, then passing crontab file
23:56 < jcarder_> I want to keep a backup of my home directory on my laptop, for obvious reasons I don't want to have a backup folder in my home dir. Any suggestions on where to make a backup directory?
23:56 < may-day> how or why does -i work? "The -i option modifies the -r option to prompt the  user  for  a  'y/Y' response before actually removing the crontab."
23:56 < may-day> -r just removes the crontab
23:57 < lnnb> jcarder_: /root or somewhere with similar permissions
23:58 < jcarder_> yeah that's what I was leaning towards, thanks :)
23:58 < uplime> jcarder_: should probably store that on a physically different harddrive
23:58 < uplime> backups don't do much good when they're hosted on the thing they're supposed to be backing up
23:59 < jcarder_> uplime: I'm going to back up on an external drive too I just want to have one on the system itself in case my external drive goes wrong.
23:59 < uplime> ah
23:59 < uplime> ok
23:59 < uplime> carry on then
23:59 < BlueProtoman> I'm trying to use the nvidia drivers on Ubuntu 18.04, with a nVidia GeForce GTX 860M via Optimus.  Although `prime-select query` outputs `nvidia`, nvidia-smi fails with "NVIDIA-SMI has failed because it couldn't communicate with the NVIDIA driver. Make sure that the latest NVIDIA driver is installed and running."  I can't use CUDA as a result, and my graphics are being drawn with my Intel chip.  How can I fix this?
--- Log closed Tue Jun 05 00:00:45 2018