--- Log opened Thu Jun 07 00:00:06 2018
--- Day changed Thu Jun 07 2018
00:00 < Dagmar> 3. Trying to keep other developers from "enhancing" a chroot environment until there's a complete bloody shell and a compiler suite is something best left to a sole-admin environment, or a true BOFH who firmly believes in the dangers of raised flooring causing near-fatal workplace accidents.
00:00 < yaldak> Thats why we got cgroups
00:01 < lnnb> does ssh have bug bounties?
00:06 < KeyboardNotFound> Is there a way to delete some screen resolution from showing in "Select resolution menu" ?
00:14 < lnnb> Dagmar: what is the reason behind the _separate filesystem_ bit regarding chroot?
00:20 < lnnb> does mount("/path/to/chroot", "/", NULL, MS_MOVE, NULL)  handle the concern about it being root of a filesystem  adequately?
00:21 < lnnb> in a new mount namespace of course
00:31 < mawk> no lnnb
00:31 < mawk> you need to make it a mount point first
00:32 < mawk> bind it to itself first
00:32 < lnnb> oh yeah i forgot that part
00:32 < mawk> mount("/", "/", NULL, MS_BIND, NULL);
00:32 < lnnb> (minefield) ;)
00:32 < ldlework> Your power goes out, comes back, eventually your laptop is connected to the internet again - but, you can't resolve any DNS. You can ping 8.8.8.8 and you're connected to IRC, but chrome wont resolve dns and neither will ping.
00:32 < ldlework> What do you do?
00:33 < uplime> cat /etc/resolv.conf and make sure that i have dns servers listed
00:33 < revel> Fix my DNS config, obv.
00:33 < meyou_> dig google.com @8.8.8.8
00:33 < uplime> ^ adn that
00:33 < meyou_> then @4.2.2.2, then @1.1.1.1
00:33 < ldlework> Nothing changed about the dns config
00:33 < revel> Use a different DNS server.
00:33 < ldlework> The power failure didn't rewrite /etc/resolv.conf
00:33 < uplime> ldlework: what are your listed dns servers?
00:34 < uplime> and are you able to do manual lookups against them
00:34 < meyou_> dig can at least give you more info to go on
00:34 < lnnb> oh you mean the original root the bind mount??
00:34 < ldlework> My router, I believe
00:34 < lnnb> hmm
00:34 < revel> Might be the ISP's DNS servers being funky.
00:34 < mawk> what lnnb ?
00:34 < mawk> no sorry it's a typo
00:34 < mawk> chroot("/path/to/chroot", "/path/to/chroot", NULL, MS_BIND, NULL);
00:34 < uplime> ldlework: and are you able to do dns lookups against it?
00:35 < ldlework> embarassingly, this is a new NixOS machine, and I don't have bind/dig installed lol
00:35 < uplime> lol
00:35 < uplime> does it have nslookup at least?
00:35 < meyou_> i think you get host for free right
00:35 < meyou_> host google.com
00:35 < meyou_> ?
00:36 < uplime> host is part of bindutils that provides dig
00:36 < uplime> so if they don't have dig, they probably don't have host
00:36 < lnnb> the only weirdness i've noticed is somehow this one time i got booted out of namespace into initramfs on kernel 4.14
00:36 < revel> Dig is packaged seperately on my distro.
00:36 < ldlework> I do have host, but it hangs on google.com
00:37 < uplime> oh, maybe they've separated it then
00:37 < lnnb> or maybe it was 4.11
00:37 < revel> Hmm. Or is it...?
00:37 < uplime> ldlework: it sounds like you don't have any dns servers then
00:37 < ldlework> Anyway, I'll stop using my ISP as my DNS server
00:37 < uplime> or that its out
00:37 < ldlework> thanks all
00:38 < revel> Hmm, nevermind :<
00:38 < revel> Under bind-tools
00:38 < revel> Could've sworn it was seperate somewhere...
00:40 < mawk> booted out of namespace lnnb ? what do you mean ?
00:44 < sdegutis> What's a reasonable rsync command line invocation, to replace a remote dir with the contents of a local dir, efficiently?
00:45 < mawk> lnnb: the exact sequence is: make $chroot_dir a mount point, chdir to $chroot_dir, move $chroot_dir to /, chroot to ., chdir to /
00:46 < mawk> it will make $chroot_dir the new mount point, not just chroot into it
00:46 < mawk> it's the cleanest way, and it's what is used by containers programs
00:46 < lnnb> mawk: i think i was messing around doing weird stuff with nsenter let me see if i can do it again
00:46 < mawk> yeah I forgot the ns bit
00:47 < mawk> well depends on what you're trying to achieve, but you can slip the unshare right at the beggining of that list, then recursively make $chroot_dir a slave mount point
00:48 < likcoras> sdegutis: what's wrong with just `rsync -r`? Tell us what you're trying to do here.
00:50 < sdegutis> I'm basically deploying a website the old fashioned way.
00:50 < sdegutis> The command I ended up using was: rsync -avzh --delete build/ example.com:/html/
00:50 < sdegutis> I forgot -r though but it seemed to work
00:50 < likcoras> -a implies -r
00:50 < sdegutis> Oh cool.
00:51 < sdegutis> Same as -rlptgoD
00:52 < lnnb> mawk: it's something i screwed up, i was jailing processes in a blank dir and now somehow it's getting initramfs as it's root/cwd
00:53 < mawk> that's strange
00:53 < mawk> you made the underlying / disappear
00:58 < mattfly> hello im trying to use ardour and it uses jack, it works fine on my kde desktoip but not on the mate desktop giving the error  JACK: Cannot use real-time scheduling (RR/5)(1: Operation not permitted)
00:58 < mattfly> what is the problem
01:07 < iflema> no raltime patches?
01:07 < iflema> realtime*
01:07 < iflema> rt
01:08 < lnnb> mawk: i don't know i'm hoping it's just a bug in nsenter, cwd and rt both point to that empty dir
01:14 < mattfly> iflema: no i dont have those but it works on the kde but not on the mate DE's, so thats not the problem
01:18 < Dagmar> mattfly: Are these the same installation?
01:18 < mattfly> yeah
01:18 < mattfly> same computer
01:18 < Dagmar> What distribution is this?
01:19 < iflema> adour only?
01:19 < mattfly> ubuntu
01:19 < mattfly> bionic
01:19 < Dagmar> http://jackaudio.org/faq/linux_rt_config.html
01:19 < mattfly> ive done that to get it working on kde
01:20 < lnnb> mawk: it is probably triggered from trying to enter that mount NS, i just did a system("ls -la") in the jail code and nothing happened. trying to read / dirent  now to confirm
01:20 < Dagmar> Specifically it says "Ubuntu - However, the user needs to be added to “audio” group."
01:20 < mattfly> yeah it works on kde
01:20 < mattfly> ive done that already
01:21 < Dagmar> Then MATE is launching it differently
01:21 < Dagmar> ...or KDE is hiding the error message from you someho
01:21 < mattfly> no
01:22 < mattfly> aurdour does not launch on mate due to that while kde does
01:22 < mattfly> weird thing is that it did before i reboot
01:23 < Dagmar> Maybe ask someone in #MATE then
01:23 < mawk> are you root lnnb ?
01:23 < mawk> you don't check return codes of your syscalls ?
01:23 < mawk> that's a bad habit
01:24 < mawk> you should define yourself a macro that will check return code of the syscall
01:24 < Dagmar> One shared by thousands of developers who should all be skinned alive
01:24 < lnnb> nothing failed nsenter did not complain
01:24 < mawk> then it worked
01:24 < lnnb> except it went to initramfs instead of the processes root dir
01:25 < mattfly> okay
01:25 < mawk> but you did nsenter lnnb
01:25 < mawk> you're supposed to do unshare
01:25 < mawk> or use clone(2) with CLONE_NEWNS flag to create a new process directly in the new mount ns
01:26 < lnnb> i used nsenter to inspect my jailed process
01:26 < bitcycle> Hey all.  Does anyone here know how to troubleshoot when NAT-ing via iptables doesn't forward from one interface to another?
01:27 < lnnb> i think there is something broken in path resolution, i did not pivot_root from initramfs
01:33 < TinyTimmyTokyo> I think I'm going to give XFS a shot, any nasty behavior I should watch out for from it?
01:37 < lnnb> anyway i guess i don't have to worry much since i don't support user namespaces anyway so only root can nsenter
01:50 < Loshki> Any filesystem that requires you to be on the lookout for nasty behavior seems like a good reason for not being used.
01:55 < mawk> the user asking this may be too paranoid, also
02:09 < strixdio> anyone know how the hell to get seafile to mount an external drive for use in seafile?
02:10 < strixdio> oh jeez, seafile isn't storing regular files huh? So I can't access my GBs worth of data?
02:21 < Fieldy> anybody know how to, from the client side, prevent openvpn from trying to assign an ipv6 address? i only want an ipv4 address. i've disabled ipv6 entirely in sysctl as well as a boot parameter, however the server (which I don't control) is also trying to give the client an ipv6 address, and it quits when it can't assign one. i've searched around and not really finding anything
02:28 < Psi-Jack> Fieldy: Sounds like a bad VPN.
02:52 < nekoseam> Hewwo uwu
02:54 < Fieldy> found the solution. if you want to disable ipv6 from the client side on openvpn (example: you don't control the server): https://www.snbforums.com/threads/openvpn-help-please.41683/#post-352774
02:56 < Psi-Jack> Or just don't use bad VPN providers. :)
02:58 < uplime> b 5
03:01 < Fieldy> same
03:18 < max3> can someone help me get my intel wifi nic working on ubuntu 18? that room is quiescent right now
03:18 < max3> here's lshw http://dpaste.com/19CBK1A
03:30 < Psi-Jack> What /actual/ problem are you having?
03:30 < Psi-Jack> And that's not Intel.
03:31 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, Something identifies as Intel, but.. You also have Realcrap Wired and Wireless adapters.
03:35 < Dagmar> It's cool how that pastebin is almost entirely useless since it doesnt' contain the prod/vend identifiers
03:36 < Dagmar> I suspect, however, that if the Realtek wireless miniPCI card were removed and set ablaze, and then an Intel 2200 or 3945 card were installed in it's place, the problems would all magically disappear
04:08 < supernov2h> anyone know why netcat expects input after piping into it, eg: `echo -en "\x1B\x30\x31" | nc -u localhost 50123`, because even though it seems to not close its stdin, it doesn't accept any stdin...
04:21 < acresearch> people in xfce how can i setup snapping?
04:22 < acresearch> in settings>window manager> keyboard i see tile window top, but when i assign a shortcut nothing happens,   what should i do?
04:23 < datasmurf> acresearch: did you logout and back in?
04:26 < acresearch> datasmurf: yes
04:26 < datasmurf> http://csmojo.com/posts/how-to-fully-enable-xfce-windows-snapping.html
04:27 < datasmurf> Thats how you did, right?
04:31 < morf> looking at the neetly tiled windows across multiple screens a smiling in xfce
04:45 < sacules> how can I set up a GTK theme while using a WM? netsurf doesn't use the one I installed
04:45 < sacules> but rather that default one, the ugly win95 look
04:48 < datasmurf> searedvandal: ~/.gtkrc-2.0
04:48 < datasmurf> and ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini
04:49 < datasmurf> for gtk3
04:49 < datasmurf> http://termbin.com/vj8b gtk3
04:49 < datasmurf> http://termbin.com/kgs8 gtk2
04:50 < sacules> noice, thanks
04:51 < datasmurf> np, you're welcome
04:51 < datasmurf> sacules: best is archwiki for stuff like that
04:52 < sacules> yeah I had tried that on another installation and didn't seem to work, but i'll try again
04:54 < granttrec> hi all, how can I get de that looks this good http://www.gnustep.org/images/full-screenshot1.png ?
04:54 < granttrec> I'm interested in creating cross platform applications using gnustep,and would like to create a setup that lets me do that
04:59 < datasmurf> sacules: have a look at gtk-theme-switch too.
05:06 < sacules> cd
05:06 < sacules> oops
05:08 < Pentode> granttrec, not really that special. you could get the same look with some dark clearlooks variant for gtk.
05:09 < granttrec> Pentode: I also want to do some experimenting with guis and gnustep
05:10 < Pentode> download it build it and start writing some apps. ;)
05:10 < granttrec> the version in the picture is the most polished that i've seen, I was wondering which window manager it uses
05:11 < Pentode> looks like it's gnome / metacity to me
05:11 < Pentode> could be something else like xfce, hard to tell
05:11 < Pentode> i see a gnustep icon down there, so..
05:12 < Pentode> gnustep sure has changed hasnt it
05:13 < granttrec> Pentode: its ok, thanks for pointing me in a good direction
05:13  * Pentode likes the way it used to look
05:14 < ioerror88> <3gnustep
05:28 < sacules> granttrec: that didn't work, checked the arch wiki and there are no files at all on the folders where my settings should be lol
05:28 < sacules> for both gtk2 and gtk3
05:28 < sacules> there's just a im-multripress.conf file
05:38 < Pentode> sacules, the easiest way to do that is to install something like lxappearance
05:39 < sacules> i'll give it a try
05:42 < datasmurf> sacules: you have to create those files if they don't exists  ~/.gtkrc-2.0 and .config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini
05:42 < sacules> ohh seems it's working Pentode
05:42 < sacules> yeah did that and nothing happened lol
05:43 < Pentode> configuring gtk themes by hand now-a-days can be a pain in the neck
05:43 < datasmurf> sacules: check syntax and path to themes then
05:44 < datasmurf> or use gui tool to set it up like Pentode said
05:44 < sacules> datasmurf: don't worry lxappareance did the job
05:44 < sacules> thanks for the help
05:44 < datasmurf> np
05:55 < sacules> how can i change the permissions of a folder recursively?
05:55 < zachary12> chmod -R
05:55 < zachary12> or man chmod
05:55 < sacules> lol
05:55 < sacules> it's been a long day
05:56 < zachary12> it's only lunch time here
05:57 < first-order> 11pm here just about.
05:57 < sacules> almost 1 am and been awake since 8 am
05:58 < first-order> I spent the majority of my evening off at a pool.
05:58 < sacules> ok finally installed arc-theme, only to find out the folders are all empty :D
05:58 < sacules> noice
05:59 < sacules> well somehow it works nvm
05:59 < first-order> Yeah, a couple coworkers invited me to hang out at one of the local casino-hotels. Missed out on a nice photo op from the view out the room window though, kicking myself in the nuts for that.
06:02 < sacules> did you get some cash at least? :)
06:03 < Celmor> how do I configure an audio delay? I've tried with pavucontrol but it doesn't seem to actually apply
06:05 < Celmor> nvm, negating the value worked
06:19 < nekoseam> Does the Linux foundation president still use macos?
06:20 < epicmetal> he upgraded to gnu/irony
06:34 < Happyhobo> Hi folks.
06:37 < sacules> bye, thanks for the help guys
06:37 < Siva_Machina> hello
06:41 < nekoseam> Debian package of the day, toilet! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rrlgQZZowY
06:43 < oerheks> some of us are glad you found it :-)
06:48 < Styil> what is good
06:49 < Styil> I got a microsd card that I use for a raspberry pi
06:49 < Styil> however I would like to use it for other purposes for now
06:49 < Styil> can I just dd the entire drive into a file then dd it back later?
06:50 < Styil> will stuff boot off it?
06:50 < oerheks> that should basicly work
06:53 < Styil> how would the command for that look like?
06:53 < Styil> just sudo dd if=/dev/sdc of=file bs=1M?
06:54 < jim> is sdc partitioned? (if it's not, you'll get the filesystem there... if it is, you'll get the partitions and the partition table)
06:54 < Styil> seems so
06:55 < Styil> there is a boot partition and rootfs partition
06:55 < jim> ok, then you're gonna get the partition table, and the partitions
06:55 < Styil> thats fine
06:57 < jim> if/as/when you write it back, write it to the same device, or (ideally) identically-sized... or, make sure at least the device is larger than the original
06:57 < Styil> will do
06:57 < Styil> was actually wondering if I could write to a larger drive
06:57 < Styil> seems I can if the partition table doesnt complain
06:58 < jim> if you do that, it will pretend to be the same-sized drive, due to the partition table
06:58 < Styil> hmm, I imagine there would be a way to fix that later then
06:58 < Styil> it probably will be the same device
06:58 < jim> I think there might be, dunno what it is (maybe I knew and forgot)
07:01 < oerheks> and sync after that
07:01 < jim> the one way I can think of, use something like sfdisk to back up the partition table, then see if you can find a way to write a new one, then see about restoring the original partitions from the sfdisk thing, which you'll probably have to edit to remove the old drive size
07:01 < Styil> i mean
07:02 < Styil> I imagine an fs fixer tool exists somewhere
07:02 < jim> just so you know, putting it on a larger drive is going to be pretty experimental
07:02 < jim> Styil, maybe
07:02 < Styil> ill just use the original drive if anything
07:02 < jim> put it this way, I don't think you're the first to want to do this
07:02 < Dagmar> Enh.  You can back up the partition table with dd and one quick Wikipedia search if you're aiming for non-GPT
07:03 < Dagmar> Lemme scroll up a sec
07:03 < Dagmar> You _can_ back up a microsd card with dd, just pointing it at the raw device (yes, /dev/sdc)
07:03 < GodOfsea> Hello
07:04 < jim> hi
07:04 < GodOfsea> hey jim long time :D
07:04 < Dagmar> ...and yes you *can* restore the backup to any storage medium (well, not optical disks) that's larger than the original and nothing will care as long as you're not doing something insane like restoring it to a 4Tb disk with 4K sectors
07:04 < Dagmar> There are problems with that
07:05 < jim> hi, and, you'll have to remind me
07:05 < GodOfsea> Check our PM
07:05 < Dagmar> ...and if you restore to a larger device, so long as it's the _last_ partition, you can delete it and recreate it to go all the way to the end, and that will work fine as well
07:05 < Dagmar> You'll need to use resize2fs to acutally make the filesystem larger after that tho
07:06 < Styil> ah, alright, that makes sense
07:06 < Styil> Was getting the vibe that the FS has the max drive size written into it but it seems that is pulled from the firmware instead
07:06 < Dagmar> obvs you can do this to an optical drive and have it work, because they use an _entirely_ different format which doesnt involve partitions
07:07 < Dagmar> er CAN'T do that to an optical drive
07:07 < Dagmar> Styil: Nope
07:07 < Dagmar> It all comes down to sector numbers.
07:07 < Dagmar> The partition table doesn't acutally know or care about the size of the disk
07:07 < jim> GodOfsea, I still have it :) what did you end up doing? did you study sicp?
07:07 < Dagmar> It only keeps start and end sector numbers
07:08 < GodOfsea> I need to find a certain file that contains a particular word , I have narrowed it down to 10 files , but how do I search through all the files at once ?
07:08 < Dagmar> GodOfsea: With grep
07:08 < Styil> GodOfsea, grep should do that
07:08 < Styil> somehbow
07:08 < Styil> forget the exact argument
07:08 < GodOfsea> Yeah I know grep
07:08 < jim> grep (put word here) (put the list of 10 files here)
07:08 < Dagmar> GodOfsea: Note the second invocation on the man page where it says FILE [FILE] [FILE]
07:09 < GodOfsea> ohh ok , so 1st I gotta pipe the list into a txt file
07:09 < Dagmar> No
07:09 < Dagmar> You just need to hand it all ten filenames
07:09 < GodOfsea> Damn
07:09 < Dagmar> grep string file1 file2 file3 .. filen
07:09 < GodOfsea> I knew that
07:09 < Styil> anyways, that sector stuff makes sense, thanks. Didnt realize it was so simple
07:10 < Dagmar> The output will be slightly different from what it does with a single file
07:10 < GodOfsea> I thought there was something surreal
07:10 < Dagmar> Styil: People who design storage systems detest things which are not simple because they become VERY not simple to debug when something goes wrong
07:11 < Dagmar> GPT was designed by a committee.
07:11 < Dagmar> 'nuff said
07:11 < GodOfsea> jim I am studying python , I got a job as sysadmin though :D
07:12 < Dagmar> *nosepinch*
07:13 < Dagmar> It turns out hte interviewer who thought I was "too cocky" was only 26.
07:13 < mateothegreat> probably was offended by your intelligence
07:14 < Dagmar> I'm going to get into the admin dept there one way or the other, and I'm going to find the guy, and subtly hint that perhaps working with computers since before he was born might mean I know some sh*t
07:15 < Dagmar> Anyhoo, that first position was for some kind of "patching team" and I'm not sure I'd even know what to do with the remaining 7 hours of the workday
07:15 < doxinho> simple systemd question- I have a service configured like so https://projects.torsion.org/witten/borgmatic/src/branch/master/sample/systemd/borgmatic.service -- but when I start the service, it seems to hang the console until the action completes?
07:16 < Styil> huh
07:17 < Dagmar> You specified "oneshot"
07:17 < Dagmar> That's precisely what that does
07:17 < Styil> the dd apparently only took 10 minutes
07:17 < Styil> hmm
07:17 < doxinho> aaaah I see, thanks dagmar
07:17 < Dagmar> If you set it to 'simple' it'll start the thing and go on to do other things instead of waiting
07:18 < Dagmar> I have actually been reading about systemd just in case it happens to be on the LFC
07:18 < Dagmar> Styil: 10 minutes is reasonable
07:18 < Dagmar> Styil: What'll make you ANGRY is stuff like this 4Tb drive of my wife's that I'm about to RMA
07:18 < Dagmar> *14* hours to test
07:19 < Dagmar> Not only that, but something screwey in the firmware means it _crashes_ at the end of the long self-test
07:20 < Dagmar> So... I have had to run this 14 hour test twice a couple of different ways
07:20 < Pentode> nice
07:20 < Dagmar> God help whoever at WD support suggests I run those tests again
07:20 < Styil> that sounds fun :)
07:20 < Dagmar> I've already spent 84 hours on the damn thing
07:21 < Dagmar> I could easily go get an extra minium wage paying job and buy a new one in less time.
07:21 < Styil> it's not about the money it's about sending a message
07:27 < jim> GodOfsea, congratulations!
07:37 < slondr> Does anyone know the proper way to convert from a string to a list in Common Lisp?
07:39 < sauvin> slondr, what kind of string?
07:39 < slondr> It's received from user input, but it's just a normal string.
07:39 < sauvin> slondr, check this out: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/44149407/how-to-convert-string-to-list-in-common-lisp
07:39 < slondr> The exact error is: The value "example" is not of type LIST
07:45 < slondr> sauvin: doing what's suggested there just gives me a quoted object named whatever I type in. It doesn't actually give me a list, and because I immediately car it it just crashes
07:45 < slondr> I want to take, for example, "example" and convert it to (e x a m p l e)
07:46 < sauvin> I'm not intimate with lisp. What do you mean by "proper" way to do this?
07:46 < slondr> Like one that isn't a dozen-line recursive function, which is all I can seem to find on google
07:46 < slondr> in scheme this is literally a single function call, but in CL that function does something totally different
07:47 < sauvin> Yeah, welcome to lisp. It's a deeply fractured community.
07:47  * sauvin digs
07:50 < sauvin> While I'm digging, may I ask why you're asking this
07:50 < slondr> using car and cdr on values obtained from user input
07:50 < sauvin> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9066750/string-to-list-without-in-common-lisp
07:52 < sauvin> Also, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/15125772/lisp-displaying-a-string-to-list.
07:52 < sauvin> In perl, this is precisely what I do when I want to turn a string into an array (a list): @mycrap = split(//, $string);
07:57 < slondr> I managed to find that (concatenate 'list "string") returns a list of characters in "string", which is close enough to what I was looking for.
08:00 < epicmetal> one OS to rule them all
08:01 < CarlenWhite> Gentoo?
08:02 < epicmetal> CarlenWhite: Yes!
08:02 < CarlenWhite> Woo. Do I win?
08:02 < epicmetal> CarlenWhite: you win a custom USE flag
08:03 < CarlenWhite> Aw yeah I'm a FEATURE
08:05 < CarlenWhite> I still receive mail about my server mentioning one of the disks went into RO and a cron script fixed it. Something something USB firmware.
08:06 < yuken> So, what happens if I'm using 2 GPUs which have wildly different drivers? HD 5670, which can't even use radeon last I checked and needs fglrx, and an R9 290 running AMDGPU?
08:07 < slondr> How are you planning on doing that?
08:07 < yuken> Plugging it into the PC and praying it works, I'm wondering if it even will.
08:07 < epicmetal> CarlenWhite: funny you mentioned Gentoo, I've been eyeing it off again
08:08 < CarlenWhite> I've touched it when it came to specialized ISOs. Otherwise it's been always Ubuntu Something.
08:09 < slondr> arch is where it's at
08:09 < Pentode> yuken, at the _very_ least both cards must use the same driver.
08:09 < CarlenWhite> Er. Linux wise. Windows as the daily driver. Ubuntu when I want it in a corner and never think about it ever unless it breaks physically.
08:10 < CarlenWhite> Guh. Linux. I'm absent-mindily replacing Linux with Ubuntu.
08:11 < epicmetal> slondr: Arch is where I'm currently at
08:11 < epicmetal> slondr: I have no actual reason to move, really
08:12 < yuken> Pentode, so it won't work like Windows where I can have 4 different viddeo drivers running at once? Shame. What about GPU passthrough to a VM with one of the cards, as it's only being used for compute?
08:12 < epicmetal> slondr: mostly nostalgia for the pre-systemd days
08:12 < epicmetal> slondr: and building from source as is tradition ;)
08:15 < Pentode> i don't know how pass through works so i have no idea.
08:19 < yuken> Well thanks then, I'll look at passthrough and see if that works. Why can't I have different drivers running for different devices under Linux?
08:21 < Pentode> the kernel is simply not capable of doing it because of the way the graphics sub is written
08:21 < Pentode> it can only ever use one at a time. until someone decides to implement that kindof thing.
08:22 < yuken> Any plans on implementing that, or any distros that do it already with a customized kernel?
08:22 < Pentode> i doubt it. you could ask, though.
08:22 < CarlenWhite> I keep remembering I RAID1'd two SSDs in a server.
08:24 < CarlenWhite> I was a silly boy back then, but I should really get around to fixing that as a RAID0. Assuming the RAID controller will let me switch to a RAID0.
08:25 < CarlenWhite> Probably a feature documented and hidden deep within a corporate site and told in hushed words by seasoned engineers.
08:26 < hexnewbie> CarlenWhite: Why would you want to switch from RAID 1 to RAID 0? RAID 0 stands for ‘NO RAID. HULK SMASH.’
08:27 < Pentode> yeah it's just asking for trouble, lol
08:27 < CarlenWhite> Luckily that system has access to a big storage array.
08:27 < CarlenWhite> Er, did.
08:28 < CarlenWhite> One of the disks died and crashed it with possibly no survivors.
08:28 < CarlenWhite> Server boots. Storage, however, doesn't mount.
08:29 < CarlenWhite> ZFS Raid 5 with no backups because I was unwise.
08:29 < hexnewbie> RAID 0 of the SSDs would ensure same faith befalls them.
08:30 < CarlenWhite> The SSDs in there are tiny. Their purpose was so the OS was ready as fast as possible.
08:31 < Disconsented> RAID tends to take long to POST
08:31 < CarlenWhite> But factor in the fact that the SAS and RAID controllers take a good minute to allow the system to even boot might make them moot.
08:32 < zetheroo> 2 systems in the local network - sshing into an offsite-hosted server - local system 1 can ssh into said offsite server instantly, while local system 2 timesout - suggestions?
08:32 < CarlenWhite> Disconsented, Yeah. I've noticed. Imagine the pain having to restart the server when ZFS hangs and gets stuck when I was trying to resolve the disk situation.
08:33 < CarlenWhite> And catching the short one, two second moment that I can strike ESC to select recovery mode.
08:39 < CarlenWhite> I should install the package that adds in mail support for a server. Somehow, one way or the other, I install something and suddenly I get the 'You have mail' prompt in my welcome.
08:40 < CarlenWhite> Would've been nice to have when one of the drives were failing so I'd get some forewarning that I could've avoided the mess.
08:40 < CarlenWhite> But I didn't.
08:41  * sauvin rofls at the typo, movie called "Saving Ryan's Privates"
08:41 < CarlenWhite> Pfft.
08:42 < [R]> sauvin: the sequel to shaving ryans privates
08:42 < CarlenWhite> You must protect the most valuable jewels of them all.
08:43 < GodOfsea> any how I see whats inside a mysql table ?
08:44 < sauvin> Fire up the mysql client and do a "select * from mytable"
08:45 < CarlenWhite> SELECT col1,col2,[.../*] FROM database.table WHERE colx = 'value';
08:45 < GodOfsea> Thanks
08:46 < CarlenWhite> Making use of LIMIT is wise. Don't want to flood the terminal.
08:46 < sauvin> Feh, I just use a pager.
08:47 < CarlenWhite> That works too. Don't recall the argument for mysql to run a query.
08:48  * CarlenWhite doesn't have a server presently that has MySQL at the moment to man it and apparently too lazy to Google.
08:50 < CarlenWhite> Also I've become more familiar with using man pages. Useful when the phone's out of reach or you've stumbled into a strange space that the major carriers forgotten.
08:55 < yuken> Well, probably not the right place to ask but hey, having a problem with GTK I believe. VLC isn't following my theme. https://i.imgur.com/Mlbwr7K.png
08:56 < yuken> this is with Vimix-Dark, which should look like: https://i.imgur.com/eNQNGPj.png
09:11 < yuken> Oh, that's it - VLC is QT by default. fixed by switching to GTK2 <3.
09:19 < msdsos> hello good people
09:20 < msdsos> anyone tried Red Star OS?
09:24 < syborg> Anyone have a good linux -> linux clipboard sync program?
09:56 < Dirkos> I want to "merge" my backup folder in my newly shipped folder. Prolbem is that `cp` will prompt me with override which i cant auto accept
09:56 < Dirkos> Now i found this: yes | cp -Rf /etc/omnius/ose/conf.d.bak/* /etc/omnius/ose/conf.d/
09:56 < Dirkos> But how can i get rid of the output since it will auto accept but still tells me there was something
10:00 < realbadhorse> https://paste.pound-python.org/show/DImnZeruXqj7Q1e41cmj/ any ideas?
10:00 < realbadhorse> happens when running any pip command.. might be related to me removing conflicting files while installing a package
10:04 < jim> realbadhorse, missing module... people here might know, but also you can ask on #python
10:04 < jim> (remember, don't run pip as root, you can potentially cause some damage to your python that way)
10:09 < Blinky_> Morning all, Is it possible to trigger a script on server 2 in a remote location from server 1.  I have 2 networks connected via ipsec, server 1's script needs to run and upon completion start server 2's script.  I can't tell server 2 to run via cron as I have no idea when server 1's script will
10:09 < Blinky_> complete.
10:25 < plexigras> how can i split a string in bash using a regex but keep both the match and the unmatched
10:29 < MrElendig> awk
10:29  * MrElendig would consider not using bash
10:29 < MrElendig> vte terminals handles it better
10:30 < MrElendig> bha last line was for another channel
10:30 < plexigras> oh ok
10:32 < MrElendig> what are you parsing?
10:34 < plexigras> MrElendig: terminal inputs https://asciinema.org/a/pZhc34smAYteyOJgZZsbY1wuR
10:37 < MrElendig> don't use bash, use rust/go/python/whatever
10:37 < MrElendig> or just use one of the existing syntax highlighters
10:37 < cloudbud> how to start the supervisor process as the other user not root
10:37 < MrElendig> startup cost of python is a bit hight for this though
10:38 < MrElendig> cloudbud: you would need to run a user session of supervisord
10:38 < MrElendig> or use sudo for system services
10:38 < MrElendig> or write some wrapper that uses eg polkit to grant permission
10:39 < cloudbud> MrElendig : Can i specify in my app.ini in /etc/supervisor/app.ini
10:39 < cloudbud> something like this https://pastebin.com/qBTgvpZA
10:40 < cloudbud> @MrElendig
10:40 < MrElendig> hackish way is to make a new group and have the socket owned by said group
10:41 < MrElendig> doesn't give you per service level acl though
10:41 < MrElendig> could do per service with sudo or polkit
10:41 < MrElendig> could also write some little broker that implemented proper acl
10:42 < cloudbud> MrElendig : this wont work ? Giving me error Thu Jun  7 08:33:06 2018 - uWSGI worker 1 screams: UAAAAAAH my master disconnected: i will kill myself !
10:42  * MrElendig doesn't do pastebin.com
10:46 < MrElendig> uWSGI worker 1: senpai will never notice you!
10:46 < MrElendig> doesn't your distro have a sane service manager out of the box btw?
10:49 < BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
10:56 < nekoseam> https://imgur.com/a/XhB2eSS Finally got a setup that I like
10:56  * nekoseam sighs in relief
11:03 < adsc> is anime vegan?
11:06 < nekoseam> adsc: yes that's why i'm into kemono
11:06 < nekoseam> kemono is chad
11:08 < MrElendig> don't lewd the dragon
11:17 < revel> ~/.config/.fur ?
11:37 < plexigras> how can i use sed to do loop over the match and not match so if i have `a.b.c` and the match is \w i get a then . then b then . then c
11:53 < shrdlu68> plexigras: Not sure I understand your question. There's \W
11:56 < lopid> and ##sed
12:00 < MrElendig> awk (or don't use bash as suggested)
12:02 < Dagmar> Doable in three lines of perl
12:07 < shrdlu68> Doable in 5 chars in APL
12:13 < Foxboron> ^I like this guy
12:16 < user03> kimsufi.com down
12:16 < user03> the servers are online
12:16 < Armand> It's dead, Jimbo
12:17 < jiggawattz> d
12:17 < jiggawattz>  e
12:17 < jiggawattz>   a
12:17 < jiggawattz>    d
12:18 < Armand> Deader than a-line flairs with pockets in the knees
12:18 < user03> what can be the problem of them?
12:18 < Armand> user03: In short, it would best be described as... fooked.
12:35 < rosco> Does anybody here uses OMSA? In the past it was polluting our SNMP configuration so we stopped using it. How is it today?
12:35 < Armand> user03: They are part of OVH ?
12:36 < Blinky_> Morning all, need some help please with an htaccess issue.  I am trying to set an environment variable that can be used by the website but it is not being set.  I am running on a whm server, apache2.4 and php7. This is what I am using - https://paste.linux.community/view/31546f2a
12:36 < user03> yes kimsufi 10 soyoustart 40 - 60
12:37 < Armand> Well, OVH suck.. so that explains that.
12:49 < Alexander-47u> hi all
12:49 < Alexander-47u>  are there any drawbacks to GDPR for consumers?
12:49 < Armand> Yes
12:50 < Alexander-47u> how so?
12:51 < Sitri> "We're updating our privacy policy."  "We're updating our privacy policy."  "We're updating our privacy policy."  "We're updating our privacy policy."  "We're updating our privacy policy."  "We're updating our privacy policy."  "We're updating our privacy policy."  "We're updating our privacy policy."
12:51 < SkunkyFone> hahahahaha
12:51 < Alexander-47u> hahahahah
12:51 < redredhathat> that's not wrong
12:51 < Alexander-47u> ye besides that
12:52 < barometz> there's a financial cost to the new requirements, for organizations that have to comply
12:52 < Alexander-47u> i guess not eh?
12:52 < barometz> the money's gotta come from somewhere
12:53 < barometz> may not be enough to show up in the customer's bill though
12:54 < redredhathat> in a she-bang you have `#!$(which python)`
12:54 < Armand> Sexist
12:54 < Sitri> Do #!/usr/bin/env python instead
12:54 < Armand> Where's the "he-bang" ?
12:54 < Armand> Pfft
12:54 < redredhathat> in a (s)he-bang you have `#!$(which python)`
12:55 < Armand> lol
12:55 < redredhathat> can you have, rather
12:55 < Alexander-47u> i always do #!/bin/python
12:55 < redredhathat> even when writing python3?
12:55 < Sitri> python is rarely ever put in /bin/
12:56 < djph> redredhathat: it "might" work ... but "#!/bin/python" or "#!/usr/bin/env python" is the typically accepted correct form.
12:56 < revel> Some distros symlink /usr/bin to /bin, which is why that can work.
12:56 < Sitri> env will find where stuff is for you.
12:56 < Alexander-47u> #!/bin/python3 if i want python 3
12:56 < redredhathat> for at least my system, /usr/bin/python is 2, but i want it to be 3, but 3 isnt in usr/bin
12:56 < djph> or at least where the current environment has stuff
12:56 < Alexander-47u> but i stepped over from 3 to 2 somewhere along the way, as i dont really do heavy coding
12:56 < Alexander-47u> just scripts
12:57 < plexigras> i use this regex `/\w+[[:punct:]]\w+|\w+/` in awk but it seams to ignore the `\w+` behind the `|`
12:57 < plexigras> what am i doing wrong?
12:58 < redredhathat> You could ask in #regex
12:58 < redredhathat> what little regex i know is bad
13:00 < fendur> plexigras: string input and expected output exmaple?
13:02 < fendur> oh, well that's a a match, so example of expected matching string that isn;t matching?
13:07 < plexigras> i don't know what i changed but it works now
13:08 < acresearch> hello people, i am trying to setup a shortcut for window snapping, instead of having to drag the windows by mouse, i went to settings>window mamanger>keyboard>tile window     but when i add the shortcut and use it nothing happens, please help
13:08 < currybullen> a server i work on uses environment modules. to use bash 4.3 i load the module in ~/.bashrc so that is loaded everytime i start a bash shell. however, this means everytime i start bash it wont be 4.3, only the subsequent bash shells within that first shell will use bash 4.3. can i load a module globally on login or something to get around this?
13:08 < Sveta> what window manager?
13:08 < Sveta> acresearch: what window manager?
13:09 < currybullen> i meant ~/.module
13:09 < acresearch> Sveta: xfce
13:09 < Zajt> I installed a newer version of my firefox to my kali linux, and to run it, I do: ./firefox in it's folder. But I can't right click on the icon in the menu bar and make it be stored there so I don't need to open the folder every time I wanna start firefox. How can I fix this?
13:09 < acresearch> Sveta: dam i keep texting in the wrong channels :-( new to xfce and getting used to the terminal
13:10 < redredhathat> Zajt look up .desktop files
13:10 < Zajt> okay will google it, thanks
13:10 < Sveta> acresearch: ask #xfce and share their solution here
13:10 < alexandre9099> hi, is there any youtube player that downloads every video that is played? (i know that there is youtube-dl but for that i would need to download manually every video)
13:11 < redredhathat> you could make a playlist
13:11 < redredhathat> or a have a browser extension maybe
13:11 < acresearch> Sveta: ok
13:14 < jack_rip_vim> o/
13:17 < alexandre9099> redredhathat, hmm, maybe, i asked because streaming everytime is just a waste of bandwidth :)
13:17 < redredhathat> just make a playlist and download it
13:17 < redredhathat> or make something yourself
13:24 < baxx> i have ~/bin, and I have a directory with some executables that I want to be able to run from the terminal ( just call a command ), should I add aliases into the ~/bin or add this directory to the PATH?
13:24 < jack_rip_vim> baxx: yeah
13:24 < baxx> jack_rip_vim: yeah what
13:25 < jack_rip_vim> or you can dorectly cd to the dir, then execute it
13:25 < baxx> jack_rip_vim:that's a bit of hassle I think, I'm not sure what you were saying yeah to still either
13:25 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, yes, you should add it PATH
13:25 < jack_rip_vim> to PATH*
13:26 < baxx> ok, PATH* , ?
13:26 < jack_rip_vim> vi /etc/profiles, then put the ~/bin at PATH
13:26 < GunqqerFriithian> >vi
13:26 < jack_rip_vim> after that, source /etc/profile
13:26 < jack_rip_vim> s
13:27 < baxx> the ~/bin is already in the PATH, I can call scripts from there
13:27 < baxx> this is for a different directory
13:27 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, then you should add the diff path to the PATH
13:28 < baxx>  export PATH=$PATH:/the/other/directory/that/i/want/to/add   << like this?
13:28 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, yes
13:28 < jack_rip_vim> hi BluesKaj
13:28 < BluesKaj> hi jack_rip_vim
13:28 < baxx> ah ok, I didn't have $PATH: before, I think I was overwriting path and buggering things up that way
13:29 < jack_rip_vim> lol
13:29 < baxx> :')
13:29 < jack_rip_vim> it should be fine, if you make mistake with export, you can reboot your computer to fix it
13:32 < baxx> jack_rip_vim: if that's worked then I should be able to run which <programme> and get the location right?
13:33 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, bash will auto select the program from the first path to the last path
13:36 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, to keep you run the right program, you might want to cd to the dir, then run it to keep sure you didn't run the wrong program
13:36 < baxx> well i just have a minizinc directory with binaries in it that i wanted to add
13:37 < baxx> i'm wondering if there's some web of mistakes i'm currently walking into
13:37 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, then I think you can directly add the path to the PATH environment value
13:37 < baxx> in the way that I pasted before?
13:38 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, yes
13:38 < baxx> hrm - does ordering matter with this? I don't see why
13:38 < baxx> ( what pastebin do we suggest in here btw? )
13:39 < baxx> ok I see the topic
13:39 < baxx>  
13:40 < baxx> jack_rip_vim: https://paste.linux.community/view/948e590d this is what i have in .bashrc
13:40 < baxx> for the path
13:41 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, it is OK, I think
13:41 < baxx> jack_rip_vim: right, but then when I open a terminal and enter "minizinc" it's not found
13:42 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, ./minizinc
13:42 < baxx> that's if i'm in the directory itself though
13:42 < baxx> what If I'm in a different directory ?
13:42 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, where you have minizinc script?
13:43 < baxx> jack_rip_vim: https://paste.linux.community/view/71d0c452
13:44 < baxx> i have just tried changing the directory name to export PATH=$PATH:/home/vco/Documents/MiniZincIDE ... hrm. I need to eat now though :/
13:45 < jack_rip_vim> baxx, do you give the permission for the script?
14:06 < mrinode> greetings, I need to store 1.5 million files (150 GB) on an SFTP, am trying Hetzner's Storage Box, but each 250-byte file is taking 1 MB on the disk :( Anyone one got any advice?
14:06 < za1b1tsu> regarding cli applications in modern DE. So I really like cli applications: weechat, ranger. But what is the most efficient way to switch to one? For example I have a terminal with vim a browser, another terminal for executing code, and then I have terminals for weechat, mpv etc. How do I alt tab to the right terminal I want?
14:07 < GaryH42> Hi, I just installed manjaro 17.1.10 on my laptop. Have had manjaro on this laptop many times before with no problems. I did a complete format and repartition of the hdd, no dual boot. Now when I turn the laptop on it goes instantly to bios. I tried googling the problem and found a few references to disabling secure boot, but secure boot is disabled. Does anyone have any idea what the problem might be?
14:07 < fbi> mrinode: set up your own server?
14:07 < nalik89> mrinode check the tech specs of block storage sizes
14:07 < fbi> mrinode: which fs is on that hetzner box?
14:07 < fbi> is it*
14:08 < mrinode> wish i knew, it's all Web UI'ed
14:08 < nalik89> can't remembr where but i've stumbled on some minimum block storage size alloted for any file size once
14:08 < fbi> get something you control yourself and use xfs or ext4 with tweaks
14:08 < mrinode> so if i get a VPS, with default debian installation, will the block size be 4 KB or so?
14:09 < fbi> ext4 with the correct options will showe multiple files into the same inode if they will fit
14:09 < solidfox> mrinode, that's a lot of files.
14:09 < fbi> xfs might be a better choice these day though
14:10 < fbi> might want to consider something like ceph or similar though
14:10 < mrinode> so the reason i'm doing all this is we use Rackspace CloudFiles for our website. Customers upload photos/docs. But I phoned Rackspace and asked "what if a hacker deletes all our containers? could you help" and they said "100% no, they would be lost"
14:10 < fbi> mrinode: that is what distributed storage and backups are for
14:10 < mrinode> so i'm just trying to backup the CloudFiles
14:10 < shrdlu68> za1b1tsu: Use a which groups windows?
14:10 < mrinode> fbi: huh? that's my whole intent..
14:11 < xenial64-user> i've got about 2mb/s and I'm on public wifi, what is a good distro that is light on battery and light on iso size? prefferably one with wireless firmware for a 7260
14:11 < shrdlu68> za1b1tsu: * a wm which
14:11 < fbi> xenial64-user: any with a netinstall
14:12 < fbi> xenial64-user: that way you won't have to download 5000 packages you will never use, just to have to update them after the install
14:12 < mrinode> do you think 1 MB block size with Hetzner is a bit steeeeep? ie, slight rip-off?
14:12 < xenial64-user> but i'm on wifi, would i be able to log in with a netinstall?
14:12 < fbi> sure
14:12 < shrdlu68> xenial64-user: Gentoo? The stage3 tarball isn't much.
14:12 < fbi> some capture portals can be a bit painful, but otherwise no issue
14:13 < xenial64-user> shrdlu68, compiling is not light on battery :<
14:13 < fbi> shrdlu68: also, will require *much* more bw than binary packages
14:13 < za1b1tsu> shrdlu68: I see and I get info about what application is running in terminal?
14:13 < xenial64-user> fbi, one portal i'm at uses a js login so I might have to go somewhere else
14:13 < fbi> shrdlu68: 5x as much, if not more
14:14 < xenial64-user> and gentoo does not fit my vagabond lifestyle
14:14 < fbi> xenial64-user: some of them can do a netinstall from a iso with x on it
14:14 < solidfox> wish I had 1.5 millions files
14:14 < mrinode> before i learn how to set up ceph/xfs with SMB access over the internet, does anyone know an alternative to Hetzner's Storage Box? (sftp+smb access..)
14:15 < fbi> rent raw hardware
14:15 < xenial64-user> well I'm on puppy linux now, is there any way I could partition and bootstrap my hard drive without downloading the installer iso? are there any distros that support that (other than gentoo ofc)
14:15 < fbi> or buy your own and stuff in a rack
14:16 < mrinode> yea i can set up SFTP VPs easy. But when it comes to SMB, I have no idea how to do it properly.
14:16 < fbi> or a vps with large storage
14:16 < mrinode> (i need the SMB access for the boss man to see the files)
14:16 < fbi> samba over the internet will be a pain no matter what
14:16 < mrinode> exactly
14:16 < fbi> might want to broker that instead
14:16 < shrdlu68> xenial64-user: Copy over your current system.
14:17 < mrinode> that's why i'm here :) asking for advice
14:17 < xenial64-user> shrdlu68, im sorry?
14:17 < mrinode> what is "broker" ?
14:17 < fbi> local server that does samba on the lan, but fetches the actual data from the remote using some saner protocol
14:18 < kuri0> is there a way to tell if an application is finished starting ?
14:18 < shrdlu68> xenial64-user: If you don't want to download an iso, just partition the disk where you want to install and copy everything over there.
14:18 < fbi> kuri0: have the application itself say "Hey, listen!"
14:19 < xenial64-user> shrdlu68, By everything what do you mean?
14:19 < kre10s> Hello. I need to know how smbus works under linux. In particular, say I have a battery module with smbus connector. How does linux detect the module?
14:19 < fbi> kuri0: what is the use case?
14:19 < shrdlu68> xenial64-user: Copy the filesystem and keep the attributes. Skip /proc and /tmps and such.
14:19 < fbi> kre10s: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/i2c/smbus-protocol  etc
14:20 < kuri0> fbi, saving a memory snapshot of it
14:20 < kuri0> for X applications you could check when the window appears
14:20 < xenial64-user> shrdlu68, of puppy? wouldn't it just make more sense to install puppy using its installer?
14:20 < kuri0> but it needs to work for console too
14:20 < fbi> kuri0: window appearing doesn't have to mean that it is finished starting
14:20 < shrdlu68> xenial64-user: Do you have the installer? I thought that's what you need an ISO for.
14:21 < fbi> kuri0: how about just using gdb with a breakpoint?
14:21 < fbi> or add a printf "done starting" into the code
14:22 < xenial64-user> shrdlu68, ok so i'm booted into puppy now, but I want to install a distro that is meant for real use like debian or slack.
14:22 < xenial64-user> but downloading a full iso would take about 4-5 hours
14:22 < fbi> slack is not ment for real use
14:22 < fbi> :p
14:22 < xenial64-user> fite me
14:22 < redredhathat> lol
14:22 < fbi> xenial64-user: not at 2mbit it doesn't
14:22 < yort> xenial64-user: why not download the debian netinst iso?
14:22 < redredhathat> ^
14:23 < xenial64-user> because then I can't log into the web portal for the public wifi
14:23 < kuri0> fbi, yeah i was thinking that too but any way so it works on any program without modification
14:23 < mrinode> ok thanks fbi. Next question is which VPS provider offers decent disk space (on HDD, not SSD)?
14:23 < fbi> kuri0: no way to magically do it reliably
14:23 < shrdlu68> fbi: Would Gentoo really require more bw?
14:23 < fbi> kuri0: you could trace and try to detect it entering a wait state
14:23 < oerheks> xenial64-user, you can download the iso now, with your puppy .. you are making issues that are not real
14:24 < xenial64-user> oerheks, ok yes right, but the netinstall requires a network to install the rest of the packages right>
14:24 < fbi> if you know the exact output you could compare that
14:24 < fbi> xenial64-user: yes, which ironically saves you bw
14:24 < fbi> since you will get the latest packages, instead of having to download twice
14:25 < fbi> not to mention only download the packages you actually want in the first place
14:25 < xenial64-user> ok so i download the netinstall, write it to a usb, and boot into it right? now i have no internet because i can't log in through the portal
14:25 < fbi> which OS is currently running on the machine?
14:25 < xenial64-user> puppy in a live iso
14:25 < oerheks> no, i would get the full iso.
14:25 < shrdlu68> xenial64-user: You could just NAT from your current puppy.
14:26 < xenial64-user> but the full iso takes 5 hours to download
14:26 < fbi> you could possibly bootstrap, but probably not
14:26 < fbi> since puppy is a bit "special"
14:26 < xenial64-user> puppy is like, really special
14:26 < fbi> btw, you don't have to sit there watching the screen, you could take a hike while it downloads
14:26 < compdoc> I want a special puppy!
14:26 < fbi> more "special" than special :p
14:26 < xenial64-user> fbi, and leave my computer in the library? no thanks.
14:26 < yort> xenial64-user: can you not get the captive portal working from a netinst using a text browser like links2 or something
14:27 < spare> just sniff a mac address and steal it
14:27 < fbi> xenial64-user: leave it behind the counter
14:27 < fbi> log out, do the download in the background
14:28 < spare> if you use literally any other device to go through wifi portal you can swap the mac out and use it without javascript
14:28 < shrdlu68> xenial64-user: Your puppy has access, just use it as a router.
14:28 < xenial64-user> spare, I was not aware of that.
14:28 < fbi> if you ask nicely maybe the library will even download the image on their faster network and then give you it on a usb stick
14:28 < fbi> doesn't hurt to try
14:28 < oerheks> compdoc, oke. 4 minutes @ 2mb/s
14:29 < fbi> remember to divide by 8
14:29 < oerheks> 16 mb/2 :-D
14:29 < xenial64-user> firmware-9.4.0-amd64.iso is at 20/325mb and it has about 2 hours to go.
14:29 < fbi> so it is not 2mbit
14:29 < xenial64-user> oh i lied an hour
14:30 < spare> xenial64-user: was at some hotel and dont have a javascript browser on default install just spent all week sniffing other macs and using them to get access nothing complained ^_^
14:30 < xenial64-user> well the speed test said it was. the speed test lied.
14:30 < fbi> 21min at 2mbit
14:30 < xenial64-user> though it's been going from 10 minutes left to 2 hours left
14:31 < xenial64-user> spare, is there a tutorial for that somewhere, not sure what to google.
14:31 < shrdlu68> spare: It's that simple? Just change the MAC on the wireless interface to one already connected?
14:32 < spare> pretty much they can do javascript fingerprinting and force registration but internet access isnt browser dependent so other protocols without any identifiers still work based on mac alone
14:32 < mrinode> When ordering a new VPS, it's asking for Hostname, and NS1 and NS2. If my hostname is blah.domain.com, What do I put for the last 2?
14:32 < spare> and it was all clear text wifi
14:33 < spare> probably depends what portal it is tho be quicker to just download
14:34 < xenial64-user> the debian netinstall comes with nmtui right? or just wpa_supplicant
14:34 < shrdlu68> spare: So wouldn't work with WPA2?
14:35 < spare> never tried if you get the group broadcast key it would have mac but should still be a unique channel per client ? maybe would have to check
14:36 < shrdlu68> That seems like a major hole. Why even bother with aircrack?
14:37 < spare> should end up with actual collisions if you try to auth twice with the same mac cleartext would just spam a load of invalid packets to both devices
14:37 < djph> mrinode: the DNS servers
14:38 < mrinode> djph: ok but i'm used to entering DNS servers like 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1.. an IP. But this form is asking for hostnames and the examples they give are "ns1.domain.com" etc
14:40 < djph> weird that they'd be doing that.  Ask them what they mean?
14:41 < Psi-Jack> Bleh, 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1 do DNS filtering.
14:41 < mrinode> yea i've never been asked this for VPS before. And it's mandatory field. I can tell you the vps provider domain name if i'm allowed?
14:41 < jeffree> heh, ubuntu pulseaudio just got a fix from a bug filed in july 2009
14:42 < mrinode> (they're closed for another 2 hours hehe)
14:42 < jeffree> If we donate more money to linux companies, will linux get better?
14:42 < xenial64-user> define better
14:42 < Psi-Jack> Linux always gets better.
14:42 < mrinode> jeffree: i vote no
14:42 < djph> mrinode: honestly I don't care which VPS you're using - ask *them* for clarification
14:42 < mrinode> ok ok i was just hoping you might want to look/help :P
14:43 < Psi-Jack> Concurr, VPS support belongs in the provider.
14:43 < jeffree> better means things work as they should, less bugs, more complete and user-friendly desktop experience
14:43 < Psi-Jack> Things already work as they should.
14:43 < mrinode> do you want user-friendly or consumer-friendly
14:43 < jeffree> oh, I guess you are religious
14:43 < Psi-Jack> There are also plenty of complete user-friendly desktop experiences.
14:44 < jeffree> I like linux too, but that won't keep me from being honest
14:44 < Psi-Jack> You misuse honest with inexperience.
14:44 < shrdlu68> jeffree: What was the bug?
14:45 < jeffree> shrdlu68: bluetooth audio getting out of sync, continuous pause and start
14:45 < jeffree> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/405294
14:47 < Psi-Jack> There's still a lot of propriatery in Bluetooth.
14:48 < mrinode> Psi-Jack: it's not really a provider-specific question. For example: if I had asked about "DNS servers" in the form, everyone would have answered 8.8.8.8 or some other public IP. But these are "NS servers", not DNS. I thought it's quite an interesting problem, because it's very odd-ball for a VPS..amiright?
14:48  * shrdlu68 remembers the recent vulns in bluetooth.
14:48 < Psi-Jack> mrinode: Do you have an actua Linux question? :p
14:48 < mrinode> yes I've asked a few
14:49 < mrinode> damn it's a shame this question is off-topic. Does anyone know which channel is a good one to ask this in? i'm kinda new here
14:49 < Psi-Jack> mrinode: Well, understand this, and this is actually shown in the channel rules page. Hosting service providers are borderline topical, thus usually best to defer questions regarding them, to them.
14:49 < mrinode> fine.
14:50 < mrinode> you seem really adamant. But please could you give me a hint, ie, a channel to try.. or something
14:51 < JimBuntu> mrinode, you can try #ubuntu-offtopic
14:51 < mrinode> thanks Jim!
14:58 < Sitri> mrinode: for the NS servers.  The VPS provider should have a pair for you to use.
14:59 < Sitri> Otherwise, use the two your domain has as its authoriative DNS servers.
15:04 < redredhathat> how do i know if im running a virtual python environment?
15:05 < t-ask> Hi, I changed the symlink of libc to another version (imported). Now I can't do anything anymore. How can I change the link back without using ln eg.?
15:07 < jprjr> t-ask: I think you can just run ldconfig without arguments and it will remake the symlink
15:08 < widmo> This reminds me of chmod 000 /bin/chmod
15:08 < wasutton3> is there a special kernel option or something i need to enable MST support using the amdgpu driver?
15:08 < jeffree> now I'm tempted to try
15:08 < jprjr> If you have a statically-compiled version of busybox somewhere you can use that, but I think ldconfig is the right way to do it
15:09 < jprjr> redredhathat: my first question would be why you'd wanna know if you're in a venv vs not in a venv. If your various modules are around and import-able, who cares?
15:09 < t-ask> Well, using any shelll command ends in "relocation error: /usr/lib/libc.so.6: symbol _dl_exception_create, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 with link time reference"
15:10 < jprjr> t-ask: including ldconfig? I always thought that was statically-compiled for this very reason
15:10 < redredhathat> jprjr im more curious about installing things with like pip
15:10 < dskull> Q: ever since i did a yum update on centos i'm getting rkhunter warnings about the 'file' command not being found - so it's unable to do script checks. (what can i do to fix this?)
15:10 < t-ask> ldconfig works, but is doesn't change the behaviour.
15:10 < jprjr> You might have to use the absoulte path to the binary
15:11 < t-ask> or Do I need to relogin (remote)
15:11 < jprjr> You mentioned remaking the symlink, did you delete the symlink before running ldconfig?
15:12 < jprjr> I could see ldconfig not wanting to overwrite an existing symlink
15:12 < jprjr> Otherwise though you're best bet is to boot off some kind of live cd and fix it manually
15:12 < jprjr> *your
15:14 < t-ask> I did use "ln -f -s /usr/lib/libc.so.6 /usr/lib/libc-2.27.so" via mc's edit symlink function
15:16 < Psi-Jack> t-ask: Rescue disk.
15:17 < t-ask> I wonder that I can't use any shell command anymore. Is that expected in that case?
15:17 < fbi> symlinking like that is not going to go well
15:17 < fbi> s/not/never/
15:17 < Psi-Jack> t-ask: When dealing with libc... Yes
15:17 < Psi-Jack> When you break stuff relating to libc, expect to break everything.
15:18 < t-ask> ok, so my fault was copying only the new libc version from another system and symlinking it without considering its dependencies, or?
15:18 < fbi> your mistake was to make the symlink
15:19 < fbi> never symlink libs like that
15:19 < t-ask> so I should never use ln with libs at all? What would have been the proper way?
15:19 < Psi-Jack> And "ln -s -f blah blah" using mc is not accurate. :p
15:20 < andywww> which of the various cli tools is generally credited with being the quickest/most rsource efficient way of parsing data out of files by way of piping results of regex patterns into new text files
15:20 < t-ask> I did use mc to edit the symlink. I expect it doing ln -f
15:20 < andywww> say if i wanted to extract only hyperlinks out of a huge CSV
15:20 < fbi> set the library load path as required
15:20 < Psi-Jack> t-ask: You expect incorrectly.
15:20 < fbi> why would you want multiple glibc's though?
15:21 < clemens3> andywww: what's wrong with perl on the command line?
15:21 < clemens3> andywww: or a egrep perl combo
15:21 < andywww> i was looking at ack
15:21 < andywww> but i thought perhaps that’d add the overhead of loading up perl
15:22 < andywww> and perhaps one of the C tools might be a bit quicker?
15:22 < jim> maybe, but maybe not
15:23 < andywww> i can benchmark, i was just curious if there was a commonly known best option
15:23 < jim> it could be that perl or python modules could be more efficient
15:23 < TonyWonder> Did somebody say 'Wonder?'
15:23 < Psi-Jack> Again?
15:24 < jim> most importantly, it might also be faster for you to build it in python or perl
15:24 < mouses> lmfao arrested development reference? :)
15:24 < Psi-Jack> jim: That's the second time TonyWonder's done that.
15:24 < jim> yep I saw the first time too
15:24 < mouses> full confession: that's just me being silly :)
15:24 < jim> well it didn't hurt anything'
15:25 < mouses> jim: won't use it again for at least a week
15:25 < mutante> is there a simple way to say "run all jobs from this user's crontab right now, ignoring time/date"
15:25 < mutante> (besides copy/past and stuff)
15:25 < t-ask> fbi: I got a pacman error expecting the new lib. So my thinking was moving the new version over and reinstall pacman. That is why I relinkd to that new lib. Now I can only fix it via rescue, that's ok. I just want to understand what I did wrong and how to doit properly in case my package manager doesn't work anymore.
15:26 < mouses> jim: just celebrating season five with a stupid inside joke :)
15:26 < fbi> t-ask: the way to solve that was to do a full system update, not mess with symlinks
15:27 < t-ask> fbi: which I did try, but I ended up in the situation not being able to use pacman anymore to do so.
15:28 < jim> mouses, season 5 of what?
15:28 < mouses> jim: arrested development!
15:29 < mouses> jim: Tony wonder is a magician who hides in things for days/weeks until someone says WONDER
15:29 < mouses> and then he pops out
15:29 < mouses> and vanishes :)
15:29 < nicholasBPM> I stopped using visual studio code because it messed my code up, i use tmux now, but copy and paste multiple lines from one file to another is giving me headaches, any advice?
15:29  * Psi-Jack rolls his eyes.
15:29 < mouses> Psi-Jack: lame, I know - but it's actually pretty funny :P
15:29 < Psi-Jack> No. Just lame that someone is doing that here as spam.
15:30 < mouses> Psi-Jack: it's not spam, it's me and just being silly
15:30 < Psi-Jack> It's 100% spam.
15:30 < mouses> only did it twice, won't do it again :P
15:30 < Psi-Jack> So, stop it.
15:30 < mouses> Psi-Jack: already stopped, just trying to inject some smiles into the day :)
15:30 < Psi-Jack> Spamming != prone to smiles. :p
15:31 < mouses> i'd never spam - that was two lines in 24 hours
15:32 < Psi-Jack> You should look up the definition of Spam. :p
15:32 < jim> Psi-Jack, it didn't hurt anything, and his intent wasn't to harm (or spam)
15:32 < mouses> Psi-Jack: Fair, won't happen again :)
15:32 < jim> canned mystery meat involving pork?
15:33 < mouses> jim: nah, it's stupid and unrelated to anything
15:33 < GunqqerFriithian> 3 lines isn't spam, what it was was unrelated to this channel
15:33 < mouses> just had a night off work and was working on trigger bods
15:33 < mouses> GunqqerFriithian: yup, totally.
15:33 < mouses> bots*
15:33 < mouses> hope it maybe made someone smile - it won't happen again.
15:33 < mouses> it's not a auto thing, it's a manual trigger :)
15:34 < mouses> anyway, back to GNU/FOSS topics
15:34 < GunqqerFriithian> I am all for multi line messages especially for formatting (5 is a massive stretch though)
15:34 < GunqqerFriithian> so about github...
15:34 < jim> mouses, maybe that's the best thing... it looks like it did raise the channel temp, but after the fact, not during it
15:35 < t-ask> fbi: So, my wrong thinking was that the imported libc is static and it wasn't? I want to understand what I did wrong. Otherwise I asume relinking lib symlinks is not allowed.
15:35 < mouses> jim: yup, and the catalyst in me says 'nope, don't do it again' :)
15:35 < fbi> t-ask: boot install image, pacman --sysroot .....
15:35 < fbi> after removing the symlink
15:38 < Psi-Jack> Heh. catalyst. Another word that seems to be often used incorrectly as well. :)
15:38 < jim> mouses, yeah, there's no worries here, you don't have to contract
15:39 < jim> Psi-Jack, he's trying to be cool, please don't bring it up again, maybe the channel temp can drop a little
15:39 < t-ask> fbi: thats the solution. But doesn't help me in to understand my wrongdoing :(
15:40 < e36freak> Psi-Jack: you're a catalyst
15:40 < fbi> all the system installed software is linked against the glibc in the glibc package, you changed the symlink to a different version of glibc, and the symbols does not match
15:40 < Psi-Jack> e36freak: No youuuu!
15:40 < fbi> so everything stops working
15:40 < jim> e36freak, not helping :)
15:40 < e36freak> now go cause things to change!
15:41 < Psi-Jack> Rapidly!
15:41 < Psi-Jack> Exposively.
15:41 < Psi-Jack> Explosively, even. heh
15:41 < e36freak> jim: ohhhhh... *helping*
15:41 < e36freak> right. got it.
15:42 < jim> e36freak, the channel temp spiked a little before you commented, I'm just trying to get it to smooth out and fall again
15:42  * e36freak gets the fan
15:43 < mouses> jim: I finally have my openvpn server working right
15:43 < mouses> I feel so stupid.... my entire problem this entire time...
15:43 < Psi-Jack> And no. This channel isn't temporary. :0
15:43 < mouses> was using the same .ovpn key/profile on more than one device
15:43 < mouses> lol
15:43 < jim> it wasn't your fault, but let's let it go
15:43  * Psi-Jack grins evilly. 
15:43 < mouses> had no idea that by default you can't just use the same key on multiple machines
15:44  * mouses hangs head in shame :(
15:45 < jprjr> Hey everybody's gotta learn this stuff at some point
15:45 < Psi-Jack> Heh
15:45 < mouses> finally got it 100% working and even no DNS-leaks
15:45 < Psi-Jack> mouses: Yeah, you can enable it to be allowed.
15:46 < mouses> Psi-Jack: yeah, now I know that :)
15:46 < mouses> Psi-Jack: but one key per device seems more logical I guess
15:46 < mouses> better for my logs
15:46 < Psi-Jack> Extra key maintenance too. :)
15:47 < Psi-Jack> Depends really on if it's human, or not.
15:47 < t-ask> fbi: SO that means, the symbols of the old version didn't change and are stored somewhere else and I switched to the newer glibs and made a mess. Then this only work with static libs, or?
15:47 < GunqqerFriithian> I want to use my VPN, but I can't get ssl working with freenode and I want to be able to use it
15:50 < jprjr> t-ask: if your applications are linked completely statically then you can do whatever you want with glibc symlinks. But note that even some static apps will try to load glibc anyway, that's a feature/frustration of glibc
15:50 < Jenz>  The Hurd kernel looks weird to me, I mean, what would GNU benefit from using Hurd
15:50 < Jenz>               instead of Linux?
15:50 < jprjr> t-ask: certain functions like gethostbyname require loading glibc to load nss modules
15:51 < Psi-Jack> Jenz: Nothing, really. Hurd's pretty much been nothing more than a failed tinker toy to most people that even know what Hurd is.
15:52 < Jenz> Psi-Jack: Ok thanks
15:52 < Jenz> I guess GNU just want to be GNU
15:53 < jprjr> I think GNU's reason for Hurd is more philosohpical than practical. They want a system where every single piece of software is GNU
15:53 < Psi-Jack> These days, pretty much that's all it is.
15:53 < Jenz> Yeah, exactly, I've huge respect for that, but I ain't ever separating from linux
15:54 < Jenz> (I think)
15:54 < Psi-Jack> Simply put, Hurd failed.
15:54 < Psi-Jack> After more than 20 years later, it's still not even more than a whisper.
15:55 < Psi-Jack> I rounded down, should've been more like "After almost 30 years later..."
15:55 < Jenz> The archlinux wiki#GNU Project claims that Hurd is under active development, so I just got curious
15:55 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, it's been under "active development for ~30 years.
15:57 < e36freak> i guess it's still "active" if RMS types some code once a month
15:57 < Jenz> RMS?
15:58 < Psi-Jack> e36freak: Or once a year.
15:58 < revel> Jenz: Richard Matthew Stallman.
15:58 < Jenz> Oh ofc
15:58 < Psi-Jack> "of course"
15:58 < Armand> revel: AKA "Neckbeard"
16:00 < t-ask> jprjr: Can I assume, that using ldd is a good way to determine if a lib is static/dynamic. And then form now on don't resymlink found dynamic libs anymore.
16:00 < e36freak> Armand: actually, i think you mean GNU/Neckbeard
16:00 < Psi-Jack> hah
16:01 < Psi-Jack> e36freak: Are you licensed for that? ;)
16:01 < revel> t-ask: I'd use `file` to determine that.
16:01 < shrdlu68> Pfft! Gnu+Neckbeard
16:01 < Armand> I would say that RMS is a running joke in FOSS, but I doubt he's ever run anywhere...
16:01 < jprjr> t-ask: usually a lib is pretty obvious, it'll either end in .so or .a. The libc itself is a special case, you can actually run it as a loader manually
16:01 < tx> that boi would run anywhere for some tender toe jam fam
16:01 < Armand> hahahaa
16:01 < jprjr> t-ask: like /path/to/libc.so /path/to/some/program
16:01 < Armand> tx: Gross.
16:02 < jprjr> t-ask: ldd actually loads the binary so if you have multiple, side-by-side libc's you can get bad results. file is a better tool, or readelf, objdump, etc
16:02 < revel> t-ask: Static libs are "current ar archive" and shared ones are i.e "ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, stripped"
16:03 < revel> Yeah, readelf is also good.
16:04 < jprjr> There's a handy script called "lddsafe" that emulates ldd with readelf+objdump https://github.com/rg3/lddsafe
16:22 < t-ask> I think I understand now. I will rescue the system now, thanks.
16:31 < Psi-Jack> DerRaiden: Away nicks suck. And frowned upon by all on IRC, but also here. Please don't use away nicks.
16:35 < aruns> Hi, what does it mean when the top command shows 0 users?
16:35 < aruns> What does it count as a user?
16:36 < djph> aruns: how're you running 'top' to get zero users?
16:39 < aruns> djph: I'm running it in a Windows Subsytem for Linux container which is running Ubuntu 16.04
16:39 < aruns> Maybe WSL is doing some weird stuff.
16:39 < djph> likely
16:39 < lopid> unique users across all running processes?
16:39 < Psi-Jack> aruns: WSL is not supported here.
16:39 < djph> 'users' is supposed to show logged in users
16:40 < aruns> I see.
16:40 < Psi-Jack> Also, "WSL" is not Linux.
16:40 < djph> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^]
16:40 < leftyfb> heh
16:58 < qrvpzvb> how can I get progress info, after I've started a mv ?
16:59 < dlblv> Hi guys
16:59 < ayecee> qrvpzvb: i don't think there's an easy way to do that.
16:59 < dlblv> I need some help on booting linux on my ARM board
17:00 < shrdlu68> qrvpzvb: https://www.tecmint.com/progress-monitor-check-progress-of-linux-commands/
17:01 < jprjr> qrvpzvb: there might be something you can do by looking at the process file descriptors under /proc/ ?
17:01 < shrdlu68> That's precisely what the progress tool does.
17:02 < qrvpzvb> yeah, thanks, I remembered there was such a tool
17:02 < shrdlu68> Should've linked to this: https://github.com/Xfennec/progress
17:04 < mattfly> hi
17:04 < mattfly> newbie question
17:05 < mattfly> when i run startx mate-session it starts with a littel white terminal console that if i close it kills the session
17:05 < mattfly> how can i start without it
17:06 < jprjr> I don't think you're actually starting mate that way, don't you have to put that into your xinitrc?
17:07 < mattfly> im starting mate that way
17:07 < mattfly> i dont want it to be my default DE
17:11 < jprjr> Today I learned you can specify a de on the cli instead of .xinitrc, neat
17:11 < qrvpzvb> do you have a xinitrc as well?
17:12 < jprjr> Usually when I want to try a new DE/WM/etc I just change my .xinitrc, I keep it in version control so I can always revert if I don't like the change
17:27 < jim> mattfly, that little white terminal console controls the session... if you can have something else control the session, then you wouldn't need the terminal console
17:28 < jim> mattfly, so you would have to find out... how is that little white terminal console being made the session controller?
17:28 < mattfly> i dont know
17:28 < mattfly> i just wanted to hide it
17:29 < mattfly> i run startx mate-session
17:29 < instantp10neer> I am trying to decide which distro is current/compatible and easiest to install "slimly."  I heard Ubuntu now has better options for minimal packages.  Any recommendations for it vs. Debian, Mint or etcetera?  I understand they are essentially the same with different configurations.  I am attempting to select the one with a clean and minimal, fully functional configuration, adding only those items directly desired.
17:30 < instantp10neer> Ease is part of the request.
17:32 < jprjr> I think all of those distros are about the same as far as a minimal install goes
17:32 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: Linux is Linux is Linux.
17:33 < Psi-Jack> Choosing a distro is up to you, and trying them to see what fits you and your needs, and compatability requirements you may have special.
17:33 < instantp10neer> How about performance?  Do they use different GUIs?
17:33 < rosco> I'd like to automount different shares in my homedirs, something like /home/someoneXY/shares/listofautomounts. Do you think it can be done with autofs for any user XY?
17:33 < Psi-Jack> They do what you want. How you want. Have everything you want.
17:33 < jprjr> Also depends on what you mean by "clean and minimal, fully-functional configuration"
17:33 < jprjr> As far as I'm concerned having just a bash shell qualifies as that
17:34 < instantp10neer> The least applications necessary to do standard internet browsing and little else.  The ability to later install those things with an inbuilt package manager.
17:35 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, All distros have that...
17:35 < The_Schmidt> jprjr: how about bash, busybox, and coreutils?
17:36 < instantp10neer> Maybe performance is a divider?  If they were all the same as minimal installs they wouldn't exist.  They use different backends for the GUI if I understand correctly.  kdm3 vs. GNOME vs. lightdm.  I am just looking for something to start with.  It isn't a life or death decision.  Nobody wants to provide an opinion?
17:37 < The_Schmidt> head over to distrowatch and see what's popular
17:37 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: No.
17:37 < instantp10neer> Is the release of security updates varied between the three?  I would like something updated the fastest.
17:37 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: YOU are the only "divider"
17:37 < Psi-Jack> You and your PERSONAL choice.
17:38 < Psi-Jack> All major distros get security updates.
17:38 < jprjr> The_Schmidt: sure
17:38 < instantp10neer> Granted, some faster than others.
17:38 < The_Schmidt> the very latest updates can mean your system breaks because the newest things haven't been tested sufficiently
17:38 < jprjr> Just try them out and see what you like
17:39 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: Not really.
17:39 < The_Schmidt> when in doubt go with knoppix, linuxmint, debian, fedora
17:39 < Psi-Jack> The_Schmidt: You... Are crazy. LOL
17:40 < The_Schmidt> knoppix saved my college comp lab experience
17:40 < The_Schmidt> I had the only machine in the room that didn't crash every 10 min
17:40 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: Fedora, CentOS, openSUSE, Debian. That's the major distros. Go try them.
17:42 < instantp10neer> Does Mint receive updates on a regular schedule, lagging Ubuntu, or somewhat varied?
17:42 < kre10s> What is the advantage of fixing the low level voltage at 0.8v(smbus) as opposed to 1.5v(i2c)?
17:42 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: Mint uses Ubuntu repos, and their own.
17:43 < The_Schmidt> it's quite regular
17:43 < instantp10neer> What about the schedule?  OK
17:43 < instantp10neer> Debian the same?
17:43 < The_Schmidt> have a look at where they came from https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg
17:43 < instantp10neer> I am reading DistroWatch.  I will.
17:44 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: As I said. Major distros. Stop repeating questions. :p
17:45 < The_Schmidt> the main differences in distros are what desktop environments they start with and what package manager they use
17:45 < gagbo> Archiwiki has info about a few differences between distributions too https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_compared_to_other_distributions But I think the bottom line is that if you don't know which distribution you want now, then just pick one major at random since you won't notice the differences anyway
17:45 < Psi-Jack> Not really even that.
17:45 < instantp10neer> The_Schmidt I see.  Thank you.
17:45 < The_Schmidt> nearly everything else can be added
17:45 < Psi-Jack> Fedora, sure, Fedora "Workstation" comes with Gnome, but you can get Fedora "Spins" with XFCE, KDE, etc.
17:46 < Psi-Jack> Debian doesn't even come with a DE, but you sure can select one to be installed during install.
17:46 < The_Schmidt> sometimes from the distro's repos and sometimes from a binary package and occasionally from source
17:46 < Psi-Jack> CentOS, same thing, you can choose what you want during install.
17:46 < Psi-Jack> openSUSE too.
17:47 < Psi-Jack> You know what. It's mostly only really Ubuntu where you have to go out of your way to get a different DE installed than their "default". Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu, etc..
17:47 < Psi-Jack> That's terrible for Ubuntu. :)
17:48 < bipul> DE?
17:48 < Psi-Jack> Desktop Environment, what's the GPS coordinates of the rock you live under?
17:49 < triceratux> he may be crazy but not to the extent these guys are https://fossbytes.com/best-linux-distros-choosing-guide/
17:49 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: You mentioned SwagArch before. What's your opinions?
17:50 < bipul> I'm thinking to build an OS that works with voice.
17:50 < Psi-Jack> bipul: A friend of mine said the same thing once. He's still not finished.
17:50 < bipul> It will use human linguistic Voice as input to do task.
17:51 < bipul> Psi-Jack, Oh that's great. Where do you i find your friend.?
17:51 < Psi-Jack> bipul: In a dark cave. ;)
17:52 < bipul> I would happy to mail him, and show my interest to work with him. :)
17:52 < instantp10neer> If Red Hat has the goal of being secure, how does Cent relate?  Semi Server vs Client?
17:53 < bipul> What do you mean Cent relate?
17:53 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: the guy had a bug in his repo authorisation key that kept it from working several hours of the day. i was not the only person who noticed it, & it seems to be fixed. now its purring along like the best archlinux ive seen so far. Ive had no problems with 18.06 & its even running xorg 1.20.0 :)
17:53 < instantp10neer> How does it differ or compare?
17:55 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: RHEL == You pay for, CentOS == Free. Red Hat Software now owns CentOS as well as of a few years ago.
17:55 < instantp10neer> What does the price tag offer aside support?
17:55 < gagbo> more support
17:55 < Psi-Jack> You pay for support.
17:55 < dskull> and fancy branding
17:55 < ayecee> and free hat
17:56 < Psi-Jack> Do they actually give you a hat? ;)
17:56 < ayecee> no, but they should
17:56 < jprjr> You kinda/sorta get support from other software vendors as well with RHEL - like they'll specifically support RHEL and not CentOS
17:56 < Psi-Jack> They really should indeed.
17:57 < dskull> but google/bing/yahoo/etc all offer free support for centos
17:57 < solidfox> that'd be an ugly hat though :P
17:57 < solidfox> maybe it'd be good to put ontop of your rack
17:57 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: twss
17:57 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, ?
17:58 < Psi-Jack> lol
17:58 < benjwadams> Hi, I keep getting address already in use 0.0.0.0:24224
17:58 < Psi-Jack> benjwadams: So stop using that ip:port
17:58 < jprjr> benjwadams: then pick a different address
17:58 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, what is twss
17:58 < benjwadams> I tried both `lsof -i tcp:24224` and `ss -tln` and I don't see anything using that port
17:58 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: That's What She Said
17:58 < instantp10neer> How does Fedora fit it with RHEL/Cent?
17:58 < solidfox> lol
17:58 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: "fit in?"
17:58 < Psi-Jack> It's not related.
17:58 < instantp10neer> "compare, differ"
17:59 < jprjr> Fedora is basically "demo some new stuff that may or may not be in RHEL later"
17:59 < Psi-Jack> Fedora is designed by developers, for develoeprs.
17:59 < benjwadams> Psi-Jack, the port does not appear to be in use when I look
17:59 < Psi-Jack> And no, it's not a "demo" at all.
17:59 < jprjr> Well I just mean in relation to rhel, maybe "preview" could be better. But yeah it operates really independently of RHEL
18:00 < jprjr> Some stuff makes its way into RHEL eventually but past that it's pretty independent of RHEL
18:01 < Psi-Jack> benjwadams: ss -planet '(dport = :24224 or sport=:24224)'
18:01 < Psi-Jack> No "preview" either.
18:01 < Psi-Jack> Fedora is Fedora.
18:01 < instantp10neer> Does CentOS have a level of compatibility with mainstream software relative to something such as Debian/Ubuntu?  If I found X software online it is more likely to have problems in Cent?
18:02 < benjwadams> Error: an inet prefix is expected rather than "(dport"
18:02 < Psi-Jack> In fact, there's a hell of  alot more in Fedora than there is CentOS.
18:02 < Psi-Jack> benjwadams: Type things correctly.
18:02 < benjwadams> I literally copied your command
18:02 < benjwadams> so unless you typed incorrectly or I'm using an old version
18:03 < jprjr> Fedora's been a good way to learn upcoming tech though - I remember Fedora adopting systemd and people using that to learn systemd before it arrived in RHEL
18:03 < Psi-Jack> Okay. ss -planet '( dport = :24224 or sport = :24224 )'
18:04 < jprjr> instantp10neer: depends entirely on the specific piece of software, who wrote it, do they make sure to test across distros, etc etc
18:04 < benjwadams> Yeah, figured that out.  I'm not getting any results back
18:05 < Psi-Jack> benjwadams: Did you run that as root?
18:05 < instantp10neer> jprjr, generally speaking, Debian-based are more widely supported is my (fledgling) understanding.?
18:05 < jprjr> instantp10neer: depends entirely on the field. Debian/Ubuntu is really popular for web dev right now, but in the world of, say, science, it's virtually all RHEL
18:06 < instantp10neer> I see.
18:06 < jprjr> instantp10neer: pretty sure most government agencies, if they use Linux, they use RHEL, because they can buy support
18:06 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: "widely supported" as compared to what?
18:06 < Psi-Jack> Heh
18:06 < benjwadams> Psi-Jack, yeah.  The application logs keep saying 0.0.0.0:24224 is in use, but ss isn't showing them
18:07 < benjwadams> unless it's excluding 0.0.0.0
18:07 < Psi-Jack> It's not.
18:08 < Psi-Jack> That ss filter I provided would show anything, on any specific IP bindings.
18:08 < Psi-Jack> As long as they bound that port.
18:08 < benjwadams> wait, I think i found it.  I may have had the port twice in a config :(
18:08 < jprjr> I think Ubuntu is generally more popular amongst desktop users and web devs. But when I worked for a University, everything was RHEL or Windows Server
18:08 < Psi-Jack> That could possibly do it.
18:09 < Psi-Jack> Ubuntu is a slap in the face.
18:09 < Psi-Jack> An insult to the Linux community as a whole./
18:10 < jprjr> The other thing Red Hat offers is training and certification, which is also huge for governments/big corps/etc
18:10 < dgurney> and yet, many entered the linux world with Ubuntu
18:10 < uplime> <3 ubuntu
18:10 < uplime> although i just started migrating to aws so I might switch to amazon linux
18:10 < jprjr> Like if you set up your shop based on Ubuntu, it's hard to figure out if a new hire will be really good with it or not. If you setup shop with RHEL, you can at least establish some sort of baseline via requiring red hat certification (or offering it to employees, or whatever)
18:11 < benjwadams> yep, it was my mistake, there were two port definitions, one implicit which was causing the application to race
18:11 < benjwadams> thanks for the assistance
18:12 < Psi-Jack> Ewww, don't use Amazon Linux.
18:12 < Psi-Jack> That's like watered down CentOS.
18:12 < Armand> O_o
18:12 < ayecee> heh. heh. because amazon is a river.
18:13 < Armand> Fnaar
18:13 < Armand> Get your coat, ayecee... you're barred! :P
18:13 < ayecee> heh
18:13 < jprjr> Yeah there's not a lot of upsides to Amazon Linux. It's CentOS with amazon cli tools pre-installed, basically. Seems like a lazy way to keep you locked to Amazon
18:14 < jprjr> If you go with CentOS, your stuff's more portable between cloud/vm providers
18:14 < Psi-Jack> Worse.
18:14 < Armand> I almost exclusively use CentOS on servers.
18:15 < Psi-Jack> They do rolling updates to Amazon Linux far beyond what CentOS/RHEL do, thus breaking support many times over.
18:15 < Psi-Jack> amzn2, likely won't be any better.
18:15 < instantp10neer> jprjr I am trying to learn Linux.  I am proficient with Ms. and make my way with Apple.  Is the RHEL designed to start someone without linux experience?  I have a firm grasp of (DOS-based) CLI.
18:15 < instantp10neer> *"the RHEL certification"
18:16 < Psi-Jack> Further, Amazon Linux was well into YEARS beyond CentOS 7's release before they finally even considered amzn2 (which rolled from el7)
18:16 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: No.
18:17 < instantp10neer> Psi-Jack OK.  What is the minimum knowledge to begin RHEL cert?
18:17 < instantp10neer>  / training
18:17 < ayecee> to begin?
18:17 < ayecee> being potty trained would help
18:17 < ayecee> but i guess it's not required
18:18 < Psi-Jack> You can't "behin" on the RHEL Certification. As there's no such thing.
18:18 < Psi-Jack> There's RHCSA, RHCE, RHC-something else.
18:18 < Psi-Jack> And the RHCSA is no joke, hands-on.
18:18 < TheWild> hello
18:19 < instantp10neer> OK, RHEL is not an option until someone knows X.
18:19 < Psi-Jack> What?
18:19 < kazdax> hey i have a book with RHCSA and RHCSE content
18:19 < kazdax> should i just learn both exams and go give the RHCSA
18:19 < instantp10neer> jprjr was saying RHEL have certifications and things.
18:19 < kazdax> or stick to just the chapters focused on RHCSA
18:20 < Aleksandar86> I have Mikrotik and DHCP 192.168.8.1/21 and DNS on Windows server. I have problem only Ubuntu users cant get IP from DHCP
18:20 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: Yes. You /can/ get them, or not.
18:20 < kazdax> instant thats what i am talking about
18:20 < Aleksandar86> about 100 windows works good
18:20 < Psi-Jack> instantp10neer: They aren't required to use. :p
18:20 < kazdax> RHCSA and RHCSE
18:20 < kazdax> I just got a book for it
18:20 < Psi-Jack> Did they rename RHCE to RHCSE?
18:20 < kazdax> no sorry
18:20 < kazdax> i think its RHCSE
18:20 < Psi-Jack> heh
18:20 < Psi-Jack> It's not.
18:20 < kazdax> i might be wrong :D
18:21 < kazdax> yea
18:21 < TheWild> I'm doing "sudo mount -t ramfs temp temp" but then I have "chown thewild:thewild temp". Would it be possible to perform everything in one line?
18:21 < SipriusPT> anyone here knows a way to control cmd or powershell from a remote windows with an unix system, like OpenSSH but not that because it doesnt run directly in the user, something like the old telnet, where it runs directly from the user we want to mess. Anyone knows another tool or integrated tools?
18:21 < kazdax> RHCE :D
18:21 < TheWild> and I don't mean "A; B"
18:21 < TheWild> more something like "execute as user thewild with root privileges"
18:22 < Psi-Jack> TheWild: sudo mount ...; chown ...
18:22 < Psi-Jack> There, one line. Get over it.
18:23 < jprjr> TheWild: is the reason you're asking because you don't want to run 'sudo' twice or what?
18:23 < Psi-Jack> He did't even mention sudo twice.
18:23 < TheWild> okay then, I thought there might be some magic parameter for sudo (sudo -u thewild didn't work that way), or another command
18:24 < Psi-Jack> sudo 'do thing 1; do thing 2'
18:24 < DLange> TheWild: sudo sh -c "mount -t ramfs temp temp ; chown thewild:thewild temp"
18:24 < TheWild> that's nice too
18:24 < DLange> Psi-Jack: you could be a bit more helpful. At least try.
18:24 < jprjr> My hunch is the reason he wants it in one line is because both commands require root privs or something, is that why?
18:24 < Psi-Jack> DLange: What do you think I just did? :p
18:25 < Psi-Jack> No need to run sudo to run sh to run multiple commands either.
18:26 < jprjr> instantp10neer: I'd just get CentOS, get familiar with it on your own, figure things out. Getting any cert is usually something you get an employer to pay for, its pretty expensive to do on your own
18:27 < instantp10neer> jprjr I am leaning in that direction and I have it installed.  For a (secure) daily driver for an experienced user (non-developer, e. g. browsing, communicating, maybe gaming), Debian-based distros have greater compatibility for average software when compared against CentOS.  Is the difference great?  I am trying to understand how the builds determine what software will function.  I know they are all based on the same core
18:27 < instantp10neer> "kernel."  Can anyone shed some light on what makes an application function in Debian vs. Ubuntu vs. Slackware vs. RHEL?  Is it just dependencies or is the core level somehow varied?  Does anyone know?
18:27 < TheWild> one more question, this time about ddrescue. Say, I dumped a CD (dang, they go bad far faster than DVD). Now I have almost good dump with a map file and I can even mount it, but when I mount it, I don't really know which files are broken. Could I mount the dump in a way that it imitates bad sectors?
18:29 < jprjr> instantp10neer: It's just dependent on the app dev and what they choose to support, that's really it
18:29 < jprjr> instantp10neer: I think the only big difference, support-wise, are games from Steam. After that it's about the same
18:30 < Psi-Jack> Knowing linux is knowing Linux. You can learn specifics of each distro too, but knowing Linux is still knowing Linux.
18:30 < ayecee> the linux that can be known is not the true linux
18:30 < instantp10neer> Psi-Jack no argument.  I don't understand what varies from one to the next if they are all based on Linux Torvalds code.
18:31 < Psi-Jack> What package manager is used, what repository manager is used, and specifics msotly around that.
18:31 < Psi-Jack> That's the only real major difference.
18:31 < jprjr> instantp10neer: The kernel can differ in terms of what modules are enabled/disabled - different file systems, different device drivers, things like that. For most day-to-day desktop use though that's not a hugely noticeable difference
18:31 < instantp10neer> Those things shouldn't allow or deny a given application.  It must be dependencies.  -OK
18:33 < jprjr> Different distros have different packages available in their repos, or different versions of packages, etc
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Most distros have the same packages in their repos, sometimes differently named, and with differing versions.
18:34  * Psi-Jack debunks inaccuracy. :)
18:34 < jprjr> Ubuntu used to use a different init system, but now Ubuntu, Debian, CentOS all use systemd
18:34 < Psi-Jack> Debian used upstart as well before systemd.
18:34 < Psi-Jack> CentOS as well.
18:35 < instantp10neer> In theory, one distro could have software added to be similar to another so that an application will function.  I see when applications now use *.DEB or AppImage.
18:36 < jprjr> IIRC Debian/Ubuntu tend to have more packages available in the default repos, I know when I use CentOS I basically have to enable EPEL to get some packages I want. Like isn't qemu only in EPEL?
18:36 < instantp10neer> Cool.  Thank you.
18:36 < jprjr> instantp10neer: I like to stick to specifics instead of theories. Like yeah, what you're saying is true, but I like to focus on whatever the actual issue is
18:37 < Psi-Jack> Qemu is Core.
18:38 < jprjr> EPEL has some kind of qemu packages, I see "qemu-system-arm" in EPEL. Maybe it's just the non-native processors or something in there
18:39 < jprjr> instantp10neer: but yeah there's software to (attempt to) install deb on rpm systems, rpms on deb systems, etc etc. So the "in theory" is "in practice, kinda, but usually not a great idea to do"
18:39 < Psi-Jack> Yep. Not native.
18:40 < Psi-Jack> AppImage though is "portable"
18:40 < Psi-Jack> Just that AppImage kinda sucks in actually
18:40 < jprjr> Yeah last I tried using an AppImage app it still depended on some system libs
18:41 < jprjr> and I thought the whole idea was to not depend on system libs
18:42 < bls> ...worst of both worlds. "no we're not going to use static linking, we're just going to include all the shared libraries with everything, hello windows dll hell"
18:43 < Psi-Jack> Heh
18:45 < Psi-Jack> Snaps, i have to say, so far are kind of impressive. I just hate the whole idea regardless.
18:46 < revel> bls: Can you even link X stuff statically?
18:47 < revel> I thought that was a major stopping point.
18:47 < ice9> touchpad's right click is behaving like the left click, how can i correct this? i'm using libinput
18:48 < bls> revel: you used to be able to statically link the base X libraries. I believe gtk and/or gnome is where they decided to architect things to make it not possible
18:48 < Psi-Jack> revel: of course you can
18:48 < revel> Might've been thinking of GTK stuff.
18:49 < Psi-Jack> GTK+ you can. Gnome i can't say.
18:49 < bls> I think that's where they decided to use dynamic linking/loading to do localization
18:50 < wizzi> Hi, i have problem that after installing kali i find no boot
18:50 < wizzi> is that from grub ?
18:50 < bls> wizzi: probably need to ask in the kali channel
18:50 < Psi-Jack> Install kali? But why?
18:51 < revel> Okay, I just vaguely remember *something* graphical being a b*tch o link statically...
18:51 < wizzi> Psi-Jack i liked it, is there a problem ?
18:51 < Psi-Jack> Yes
18:51 < arooni> is there a tool that functions as a sipmle counter
18:51 < Psi-Jack> It's not designed for regular everyday use.
18:51 < revel> wizzi: Kali isn't really considered a regular installable desktop distro.
18:52 < bls> wizzi: kali is intended to be used as a live pentesting system. it doesn't really support installation or desktop usage that well
18:52 < arooni> for instance it could track a given date with a count that could be incremented by one with a command?   i'm trying to track how many pomodoros i get done in a day
18:52 < bls> arooni: why do you need a tool specifically for that?
18:53 < wizzi> revel how ?
18:53 < arooni> bls: cuz gnome-pomodoro doesnt keep track of how many pomodoros i complete in a day; but does allow custom commands to be run after a completed session
18:54 < bls> arooni: then I'd just set up a dumb script and a sqlite db to track it
18:54 < bls> and sqlite is even overkill here
18:54 < wizzi> bls is there alternative distro ?
18:54 < bls> wizzi: alternative to what?
18:54 < arooni> bls i know right?  i feel like the real problem is this data isnt being tracked in the pomdoro app itself; but on github that issue has been open forever
18:55 < bls> arooni: seems short-sighted, yes. hmm, wonder how difficult it'd be to add
18:55 < wizzi> bls alternative of kali
18:55 < arooni> i guess my easy solution will just be a pad of paper for now hahah
18:55 < Psi-Jack> Lol
18:55 < Psi-Jack> Wow
18:55 < bls> wizzi: there are hundreds of alternatives: distrowatch.com
18:55 < dgurney> wizzi, for "regular" use? pretty much any general-purpose distro will be infinitely better
18:56 < revel> wizzi: Last I checked, it was for live-booting and pentesting stuff. People come here all the time asking for help with it to problems that don't ever pop up with other, "regular" distros.
18:56 < Psi-Jack> wizzi: How'd you even know about kali in the first place?
18:56 < dgurney> I mean, you can install Kali if you do pentesting a lot, but even then a dual-boot with something else or a VM makes more sense
18:57 < Psi-Jack> What little you actually do know...
18:58 < wizzi> just from people and i learned about it too
18:59 < wizzi> and what should i use if i wanted to learn security or ethical hacking ?
18:59 < Psi-Jack> From "people"?
19:00 < Psi-Jack> Lol oh here it comes.
19:00 < bls> wizzi: you can use anything out there to do that
19:00 < revel> You can likely install the same tools on a regular, more stable distro as well.
19:00 < revel> Also, you won't magically absorb pentesting knowledge by browsing the internet with Kali :)
19:01 < triceratux> wizzi: you might check parrotsec & backbox. they tend to be the principal alternatives in pentesting & may install more successfully
19:01 < bls> you mean that dragon wallpaper doesn't turn you 133+ by osmosis?
19:01 < sifod> wizzi: you won't learn by using a tool. You'll learn by reading the concepts and putting them in practice yourself. These tools are for the ones who need to get things done quickly
19:02 < triceratux> theres nothing wrong with kali that replacing everything but the wallpaper doesnt fix
19:03 < wizzi> triceratux is parrotsec useful to learning that ?
19:03 < bls> wizzi: no
19:03 < hexnewbie> Not true, you need to replace the wallpaper and $PS1 with ParrotSec's too. Pun not intended.
19:04 < wizzi> sifod i'm still don't know from where should i start
19:04 < triceratux> /o\
19:04 < phct> hello
19:04 < phct> hello, how do i compress all folders that have megabyte as a size in a given directory?
19:04 < wizzi> bls what do you recommend
19:04 < wizzi> ?
19:04 < Psi-Jack> wizzi: I recollec
19:04 < Psi-Jack> Bah.
19:05 < sifod> wizzi: http://overthewire.org/wargames/bandit/
19:05 < sifod> >easy beginner bullshit 
19:05 < sifod> https://www.vulnhub.com/
19:05 < sifod> >prebroken images to work on.
19:05 < Psi-Jack> Nevermind. Do what you want. Just understand kali will not get much support here.
19:06 < bls> wizzi: distrowatch.com find something appropriate for your experience level if you want to learn pentesting instead of "how to install linux"
19:06 < Psi-Jack> Understanding linux itself though is a definite must. Else you'll be useless in actual security.
19:06 < dskull> kali linux is nice
19:06 < Psi-Jack> dskull: no its not
19:07 < dskull> backtrack is nicer?
19:07 < Psi-Jack> No it wasn't
19:07 < dskull> lol
19:07 < triceratux> kali isnt nice if you install it & it fails to present a boot
19:07 < Psi-Jack> Note the past tense..
19:08 < hexnewbie> “Grass is not tasty?” “No” “Bark is tastier?”
19:08 < bls> wizzi: or use kali as a live distro as intended instead of trying to install it to a disk
19:08 < wizzi> Psi-Jack what did you use on your beginning ?
19:08 < Psi-Jack> wizzi: What did I use ~25 years ago?
19:08 < wizzi> bls i installed it and i'm whit booting problems
19:09 < Psi-Jack> That's not useful for you today. :p
19:09 < sifod> wizzi: are you trolling or something?
19:09 < wizzi> Psi-Jack Haha so what do you use :D
19:09 < Psi-Jack> What I use today is also not useful information.
19:10  * hexnewbie suspects a newcomer with a thing for history might install SLS from the archives. If they don't confuse it with the Senate Launch System.
19:10 < wizzi> sifod No, why ?
19:10 < Psi-Jack> Lol
19:10 < bls> we know that. and we see people battling its bad installer all the time. if they'd stick to using it as a live distro they could focus on pentesting (if that's what they actually care about rather than just wanting to feel elite for using it)
19:11 < sifod> wizzi: just install whatever you prefer to use as a desktop OS, and use Kali, if you insist, in a virtual machine
19:11 < FManTropyx> ERROR: Could not open file for binary input!!!
19:13 < jprjr> Nobody should run Kali as their primary OS
19:13 < wizzi> Psi-Jack just tell me what do you propose for a newbie want to learning security ?
19:13 < wizzi> lear*
19:13 < wizzi> learn*
19:13 < Psi-Jack> Fedora, CentOS, openSUSE, Debian
19:14 < jprjr> wizzi: anything you can do with Kali you can do with any other Linux as well
19:14 < hexnewbie> One probably shouldn't run Kali as their first OS either (although I've seen weirder choices, e.g. Phat Linux installed to ext2 partition by moving the files from the UMSDOS dir and installing proper LILO)
19:15 < jprjr> Kali just has all the pentesting stuff pre-installed. Keep it on a CD/USB stick for when you specifically need it
19:15 < Psi-Jack> And kali is locked down tight to keep it from being used as a common desktop.
19:15 < dskull> kali is just a collection of tools installed on a distro pretty much. -- you need a secondary system to "test" the security of
19:18 < phct> hello
19:18 < phct> i need to pack / compress / compact all folders that have MB ( megabytes) as size in a given directory, how do i accomplish this?
19:20 < BCMM> wizzi: install debian, use apt to install the security stuff you want to learn
19:21 < jprjr> phct: there's a lot of requirements you're not giving. Do you need the folders to be transparently compressed or is putting them into a zip/tar file fine?
19:21 < BCMM> wizzi: installing stuff with apt is easy, and there does not need to be an operating system pre-configured out-of-the-box for every task one might want to use a computer for
19:21 < cloudbud>  I have an app in supervisorctl that is running with root. I want to run it with least prevelige user, My app.ini is https://pastebin.com/GV3ph2kJ
19:22 < wizzi> Psi-Jack i'll install centOS and i'll come to you if i had a problems :D
19:22 < BCMM> wizzi: if you're using it as a live cd, having everything you'll need preinstalled kind of makes sense. if you're installing it, for god's sake use a less broken distro!
19:23  * bls wonders how many new people are going to come in on this conversation, give the exact same advice, and get frustrated when they also see it being ignored :|
19:24 < qoxncyha> anyone know how to check if i'm in an interactive terminal?
19:24 < phct> jprjr: putting them in zip/tar
19:24 < koala_man> qoxncyha: as opposed to any other terminal, or as opposed to not in a terminal?
19:24 < bls> quantumcupcake: check $- for i ?
19:25 < qoxncyha> as opposed to a non-interactive terminal
19:25 < koala_man> qoxncyha: there's not really such a distinction
19:25 < BCMM> qoxncyha: you mean, from a program, right?
19:25 < BCMM> because if you're using it, it's an interactive terminal
19:25 < wizzi> BCMM i decided to install centOS
19:25 < BCMM> (you being the human)
19:25 < BCMM> wizzi: well, that's a deeply questionable decision but at least it's not kali
19:26 < bls> you likely mean something other than "interactive terminal". are you asking if your output is to a terminal? if stdin is attached to anything?
19:26 < jprjr> phct: write a script that uses "du" to check the size and call tar/zip as approrpiate
19:26 < BCMM> qoxncyha: you can check what /proc/self/fd/0 is
19:26 < wizzi> BCMM why ?
19:27 < qoxncyha> a program is complaining that it refuses to run without an interactive terminal. i want to convince the program i'm actually in an interactive terminal.
19:27 < qoxncyha> does that make sense? thanks
19:27 < buoyantair_> Where can I find help for ssh?
19:27 < dskull> wizzi, what kinda security do you want to learn anyways? iptables/netfliter is a great first step to protecting a linux box. perhaps even so far as putting production servers being a reverse proxy.
19:27 < Psi-Jack> buoyantair_: lots of places
19:27 < Psi-Jack> Ask a real question not ask to ask.
19:27 < jprjr> qoxncyha: so that depends entirely on the program, it could be checking if PS1 is set, could be calling the "isatty" function, etc
19:27 < BCMM> qoxncyha: how are you running the program?
19:27 < koala_man> qoxncyha: it just means 'terminal'. how are you running it?
19:27 < buoyantair_> I am trying to setup ssh for github but it doesnt seem to work :/
19:27 < bls> qoxncyha: you're getting more into X-Y problem territory. what program is it?
19:27 < BCMM> qoxncyha: if you're doing ssh user@server command, do ssh -t user@server command instead
19:28 < Psi-Jack> buoyantair_: What's "not working"
19:28 < buoyantair_> So I setup an ssh key, and I added it to my github account, but I am still getting the username, password prompt when I try to push
19:28 < bls> buoyantair_: you're going to have to be way more forthcoming with details if you want help
19:28 < koala_man> buoyantair_: are you using ssh for transport and not https?
19:28 < Psi-Jack> buoyantair_: are you using the git/ssh url or https?
19:28 < BCMM> buoyantair_: try ssh -v. that will tell you whether ssh is actually trying your key.
19:28 < jprjr> buoyantair_: what does "git remote -v" show? https or ssh?
19:29 < buoyantair_> Psi-Jack OHHH true, I should have done that!
19:29 < Psi-Jack> Lol
19:29 < qoxncyha> bls: the program is certbot for letsencrypt. the error message is `An authentication script must be provided with --manual-auth-hook when using the manual plugin non-interactively.` can you help me solve my problem now that you're convinced it's not an xy problem?
19:29 < Psi-Jack> Hard to use ssh with https
19:30 < qoxncyha> jprjr: i don't have isatty
19:30 < jprjr> qoxncyha: "isatty" is a C function
19:30 < buoyantair_> Psi-Jack: I was so dumb haha it works now!
19:30 < qoxncyha> BCMM: here's the full command i'm running: `sudo certbot --manual renew --force-renewal`
19:30 < buoyantair_> thx
19:30 < qoxncyha> BCMM: i am already connected with -t
19:31 < jprjr> qoxncyha: it sounds like the program is telling you the solution - use --manual-auth-hook
19:31 < Psi-Jack> buoyantair_: "the" is highly frowned upon
19:31 < Psi-Jack> ..
19:31  * dskull loves certbot
19:31 < Psi-Jack> thx even
19:31 < BCMM> qoxncyha: hang on, what? which of the two error messages you've pasted are you getting? are you using ssh or not?
19:31 < qoxncyha> jprjr: the solution is to run it in interactive mode. i don't have a hook
19:31 < qoxncyha> BCMM: which other error message did i post
19:32 < jprjr> qoxncyha: that's what I'm saying is, the program is telling you "hey you need a hook if you want to run this non-interactively". If it's demanding to be run interactively it's probably going to prompt you for stuff, no?
19:32 < jprjr> So write the hook or whatever
19:32 < buoyantair_> Psi-Jack: Haha
19:32 < BCMM> qoxncyha: the full error message isn't complaining about a non-interactive terminal
19:32 < bls> qoxncyha: then look into wrapping the command in expect
19:32 < BCMM> "using the manual plugin non-interactively" is not the same thing as "running the command on a non-interactive terminal"
19:32 < Psi-Jack> buoyantair_: Something funny? I didn't think it was funny.
19:33 < bls> qoxncyha: it'll create a pseudo-terminal and allow you to feed the command input/respond to prompts as needed
19:33 < qoxncyha> *my goal* is to run interactively. i don't have an auth hook. does that make sense?
19:34 < jprjr> Oh. If I were in your shoes though I'd just figure out how to do it non-interactively. Interactively refreshing certs every 90 days sucks
19:34 < dskull> qoxncyha, have you tried just "certbot renew"
19:34 < dskull> also yea, auto renew is pretty much default for me
19:34 < Psi-Jack> I prefer acme.sh to certbot myself.
19:34 < qoxncyha> jprjr: this is for testing a renewal hook so i don't have to renew manually every time
19:35 < dskull> i only had to manually force renews when i changed some things prior to renweal period
19:35 < qoxncyha> this machine's certbot deployment is broken in a few ways.
19:35 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Heh. I think I already see the problem you mentioned with swagarch's broken GPG key.
19:35 < jprjr> qoxncyha: well then it sounds like the ultimate goal is to run it non-interactively, and it sounds like your error message is saying you need some kind of hook. So far as I can tell, that's your real solution
19:36 < qoxncyha> i don't like it when people don't listen to me
19:36 < jprjr> I just acme.sh as well for Let's Encrypt, I like it a lot
19:36 < qoxncyha> jprjr: the ultimate goal is to run it interactively once.
19:37 < qoxncyha> i don't need any help setting up certbot to run non-interactively.
19:37 < qoxncyha> does that make sense?
19:37 < bls> if it did, people wouldn't be asking the clarifying questions that appear to be upsetting you
19:38 < BCMM> qoxncyha: the reason people are consistently misunderstanding you is *not* that they're not reading carefully enough
19:38 < qoxncyha> no, this channel has a problem
19:38 < jprjr> Honestly it doesn't make sense. So you want to get certbot to auto-renew by interactively making it renew?
19:38 < qoxncyha> i understand that your constituence is substantially less qualified than you would like, and i'm sorry.
19:38 < qoxncyha> i feel your pain.
19:39 < ayecee> /r/iamverysmart
19:39 < qoxncyha> i want to force a program to run interactively
19:39 < ayecee> so what's stopping you
19:39 < dskull> qoxncyha, maybe start over? what is it you're trying to do? just run the certbot renew command manually? add a hook? (you need to tell it what the hook is)
19:39 < qoxncyha> can anyone help me force a program to run interactively?
19:39 < BCMM> qoxncyha: words do have specific meanings. don't use long words just because they're long; instead, try to use words that relate, in some way, to what you're trying to say.
19:39 < qoxncyha> BCMM: thanks!
19:39 < ayecee> what part of that do you need help with?
19:39 < qoxncyha> ayecee: i can run a program non-interactively
19:40 < qoxncyha> i would like it to think it's running interactively
19:40 < jim> qoxncyha, if you have a problem with the level of the channel, that's ok... there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in looking for channels on the Freenode irc net. To start, /msg alis help
19:40 < ayecee> in what way?
19:40 < qoxncyha> jim: my problem is with running a program interactively
19:40 < bls> qoxncyha: and expect doesn't achieve that?
19:40 < qoxncyha> bls: how do i use expect to run one command fully interactively?
19:40 < BCMM> qoxncyha: one of the problems here is that you seem to think it's possible to give a *general* answer, applicable to any program
19:41 < jprjr> I've setup Let's Encrypt a bunch of times, non-interactively. I honestly don't get what it is you're trying to do here and why you just don't write a hook like certbot is telling you to do
19:41 < qoxncyha> BCMM: thanks
19:41 < jim> qoxncyha, there's a #letsencrypt channel
19:41 < qoxncyha> my problem is running a program interactively.
19:41 < ayecee> you keep saying that
19:41 < ayecee> it doesn't add new information
19:41 < BCMM> you need to realise that running a program non-interactively or interactively is primarily achieved by passing parameters that are specific to that program
19:41 < qoxncyha> ayecee: no, ##linux does
19:41 < ayecee> what
19:41 < qoxncyha> ayecee: is there any specific question?
19:41 < qoxncyha> i'll be happy to answer questions if it will help accomplish my goal
19:41 < ayecee> qoxncyha: in what way?
19:42 < ayecee> qoxncyha: interactively in what way?
19:42 < dskull> qoxncyha, try -i or add a #!/bin/bash to your script?
19:42 < qoxncyha> ayecee: in a way that will convince it that it's not being run non-interactively
19:42 < ayecee> how will its operation differ if you do this successfully?
19:42 < bls> qoxncyha: you'd have to write a short expect script with the prompts you need to reply to and what to send to them
19:42 < qoxncyha> ayecee: it will stop erroring, or produce a different error
19:42 < qoxncyha> thanks
19:42 < ayecee> what happens when you run it interactively now?
19:42 < BCMM> ayecee: as far as i can tell, he's used a program that behaves differently when it's not attached to a tty before, and he thinks it's like one of those
19:43 < jim> can you give an example of what you would do if you could run the certbot interactively?
19:43 < qoxncyha> ayecee: it complains about lack of interactivity
19:43 < BCMM> ayecee: because both programs used the term "interactive"
19:43 < ayecee> complains how?
19:43 < qoxncyha> `The error was: PluginError('An authentication script must be provided with --manual-auth-hook when using the manual plugin non-interactively.',). Skipping.`
19:43 < avenger> it's met my girlfriend
19:43 < qoxncyha> i am running in an `ssh -t` session via bash
19:44 < ayecee> does that mean you're running it interactively?
19:44 < dskull> maybe focus on the "authentication" vs anything else
19:44 < qoxncyha> ayecee: i don't know how to answer that
19:44 < qoxncyha> the program thinks it's running non-interactively, so i want it to think otherwise
19:44 < ayecee> qoxncyha: like, are you logging in to run the command, or are you running it directly from the ssh command line?
19:44 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.
19:45 < qoxncyha> ayecee: directly from bash within ssh -t: `sudo certbot --manual renew --force-renewal`
19:45 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Well, it is nice that SwagArch does only have unique packages that are not in actual Arch.
19:45 < ayecee> qoxncyha: okay, then it's already interactive, and the plugin is throwing an error.
19:45 < BCMM> qoxncyha: to be clear, the terminal is *not* the problem here
19:45 < qoxncyha> also, i've tried running within bash within `sudo -i` within `ssh -t`
19:45 < qoxncyha> BCMM: i've already told you the problem
19:45 < qoxncyha> `The error was: PluginError('An authentication script must be provided with --manual-auth-hook when using the manual plugin non-interactively.',). Skipping.`
19:46 < qoxncyha> that is the problem.
19:46 < jprjr> The problem is you havent really read through the certbot docs, don't fully understand what you're doing, and when literally everybody tells you you're going about it the wrong way insist no, your way is the right way, then proceed to insult the intelligence of the whole channel because we're clearly not as enlightened as you.
19:47 < qoxncyha> jprjr: thanks
19:47 < jim> why not give it what it wants?
19:47 < jprjr> If we're too stupid to understand what it is you're trying to do then why are you here still trying to get help?
19:48 < ayecee> jprjr: shush
19:48 < jprjr> Clearly we're a bunch of dumb-dumbs who don't know computers good, ergo we're a waste of your time.
19:48 < ayecee> put a bandaid on that wounded ego
19:48 < Trel> Is there any way I can script a directory change?  As in a script that changes my current directory and leaves me there?
19:48 < ayecee> stop bleeding all over the place
19:48 < BCMM> Trel: yes, but you'll need to source the script instead of executing it with ./
19:48 < jprjr> No I just don't understand the logic of "you guys don't know what you're talking about, help me out".
19:48 < bls> Trel: you could with a shell function
19:49 < ayecee> you don't have to understand it
19:49 < jim> I'll have to say, I don't understand what you want to do, and I also don't understand why you don't just give it what it's asking for, if only to see what happens
19:49 < qoxncyha> jim: okay, i'm willing to try. how do i appease certbot here?
19:49 < jprjr> Just read the docs or switch to acme.sh or dehydrated or whatever. Make sure you read those docs, too.
19:49 < qoxncyha> my goal is to verify via DNS TXT
19:49 < ayecee> qoxncyha: maybe try with certonly instead of renew
19:50 < jim> give it the authentication script that it wants
19:50 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: works for me :) http://pastebin.centos.org/823821/raw/
19:50 < ayecee> qoxncyha: i see a suggestion online that renew is intended for non-interactive use.
19:50 < BCMM> Trel: as you've probably noticed, if you put cd in a shell script and do ./script.sh, the directory change only lasts as long as the script is running. that is because the script is running in a separate shell which exits when the script is finished
19:51 < qoxncyha> let me try certonly
19:51 < BCMM> trel: but if you run a script with . script.sh (or source script.sh) instead, it will be executed in your current shell, and any directory changes, changes to the environment, aliases and so on will persist after it's finished
19:51 < ayecee> qoxncyha: there is a --force-interactive option, but it specifically says it can't be used with "renew"
19:51 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Sure, works after you do what's needed to what they neglected to do themselves.
19:52 < qoxncyha> ayecee: thanks!
19:52 < alexandre9099> hi, can i check which binaries are listening to which port? (for example see that httpd is listening on 80 and 443)
19:52 < bls> alexandre9099: yes, see the ss command
19:52 < alexandre9099> oh it is with netstat
19:53 < alexandre9099> i'll check ss
19:53 < jprjr> alexandre9099: netstat is deprecated, ss is the replacement
19:53 < qoxncyha> certbot's error message is poor
19:53 < Psi-Jack> netstat is not just deprecated, but obsolete and broken.
19:53 < alexandre9099> hmm didn't knew :) thanks for the warning
19:54 < alexandre9099> i'll read man for ss
19:54 < Psi-Jack> ss is mostly used similarly to netstat, but has more capabilities.
19:55 < dskull> qoxncyha, http://www.mhariri.info/posts/appengine_letsencrypt/ ? there's lots of these solutions on the first page of search results that could help
19:55 < Dagmar> It's also Hipster-Friendly Certified(tm)!
19:55 < ayecee> you can tell because of the beard + manbun logo
19:56 < jprjr> What's hipster - ss? I haven't seen ss cruising around town on a fixie drinking PBRs
19:56 < alexandre9099> Psi-Jack, there is a "closing" connection, what does that mean? it is on port 42257
19:56 < Psi-Jack> alexandre9099: It means what it says.
19:56 < jim> qoxncyha, I'll also have to say, I'm probably not going to permit this discussion to go on too much longer... you've already said you don't feel we're up to the task, and you might be right about that; I haven't gotten certbot to work either, so I'm probably no good to you either. You've been given several suggestions, I don't even know if you've taken them, because right now -nothing- is clear to me. just be warned, I may be taking action soon
19:57 < qoxncyha> ayecee: thanks, you've been very helpful
19:57 < alexandre9099> oh it was literally closing :D
19:57 < ayecee> :)
19:57 < qoxncyha> much appreciated!
19:57 < Psi-Jack> heh
19:57 < Jenz> Oh, Im still here?
19:57 < ayecee> would appear so
19:57 < Psi-Jack> Jenz: Maybe.
19:57 < mawk> qoxncyha: making a program think it's running interactively can be done with expect
19:57 < Jenz> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
19:57 < mawk> but it's often a bad idea
19:57 < mawk> interactive interfaces aren't standardized often
19:58 < ayecee> mawk: it can also be done in this case with --force-interactive, but not with the renew option.
19:58 < Dagmar> It doesn't need to be done that way
19:58 < bls> mawk: already tried that, so unless you've got the script already written, it's a non-starter
20:00 < mawk> I see
20:00 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm..
20:00 < Psi-Jack> qoxncyha: What /are/ you trying to do with certbot, more specifically?
20:00 < qoxncyha> Psi-Jack: well, my problem is solved, but i'm trying to verify via DNS so i don't have to take my server down
20:01 < Psi-Jack> qoxncyha: Yeah, you'd be better off with acme.sh for that, unless you run your own bind-based DNS server which is one of the few certbot actually supports.
20:01 < Dagmar> It's perfectly obvious.  He's trying to non-interactively update a cert, but refuses to provide certbot with the auth script it needs
20:01 < qoxncyha> unfortunately the config on this server on this server is a smorgasbord of bad decisions
20:01 < ayecee> as is tradition
20:02 < qoxncyha> Psi-Jack: i want to verify it once, not automatically
20:02 < bls> ...you don't need to tell us! we know! we know!
20:02 < Dagmar> It's ridiculously easy when you actually follow the instructions
20:02 < Psi-Jack> qoxncyha: Then you misunderstand Let's Encrypt.
20:02 < qoxncyha> i understand that certificates renew every couple of months, is that what you think i don't understand?
20:02 < Psi-Jack> No.
20:03 < alexandre9099> asumming that a client is not compromised can i fully trust pub key authentication on ssh(the strenght of the keys about brute force for example)?
20:03 < jim> Psi-Jack, if he's already gotten what he wants, maybe the best thing to do is let him go in peace
20:03 < Trel> BCMM: yeah, I know it only stays as part of the script.  My issue is I'm trying to script the actual directory change.  There's no way to do that without . or source?
20:03 < qoxncyha> well, i'm glad to accept help
20:03 < qoxncyha> that particular problem was solved, now i have another but i can probably solve it on my own.
20:03 < pankaj> I am using parted (actually learning) and I do not understand (googling also) what is the use of parted mklabel. Why it is so dangerous or what it does so?
20:04 < qoxncyha> i will ask later if i can't figure it out
20:04 < Psi-Jack> The best help you can get for wanting to do odd and unusual things is: Read the documentation provided.
20:04 < BCMM> Trel: well, you could also do it as a shell alias
20:04 < Dagmar> pankaj: It's dangerous because people playing with it will mess aroudn with other things they don't need or understand and break the partition layout
20:04 < Trel> BCMM: that's what I'm leaning towards, or a function if I need to stick a parameter anywhere
20:04 < qoxncyha> Psi-Jack: the server tries to autorenew but fails because something is already on :80
20:05 < BCMM> Trel: but you're definitely not gonna be able to make a program that forces the shell that started it to change directory
20:05 < bls> the function would lean more towards automation
20:05 < BCMM> Trel: may i ask what's wrong with sourcing?
20:05 < Dagmar> pankaj: No one's really used partition labels for anything important in just about ages
20:05 < Psi-Jack> qoxncyha: uh huh. And?
20:05 < Trel> BCMM: doesn't save me any time if I have to type out source /path/to/script
20:05 < qoxncyha> Psi-Jack: so 'we' end up having to renew the cert manually by shutting the server down temporarily
20:05 < Trel> vs cs <(/path/to/myfifowiththedir)
20:05 < qoxncyha> i would like to avoid it this time, to test my postdeployment script
20:05 < Trel> *cd
20:06 < Psi-Jack> qoxncyha: Yet you just said you /WANT/ manually do X-Y problem.
20:06 < qman__> qoxncyha: options there inckude using dns validation instead, or configuring your cert tool to put the files on your existing web server
20:06 < Psi-Jack> Which is it?
20:06 < ayecee> the alternative would be to configure the server such that letsencrypt requests are redirected to a letsencrypt webserver on a different port
20:06 < qoxncyha> qman__: exactly, i want to test via DNS
20:06 < Dagmar> The sane thing would be to tell certbot where your documentroot is
20:06 < qoxncyha> Dagmar: don't have one
20:06 < Psi-Jack> qoxncyha: When testing, you use the test acme api URL.
20:07 < jim> qoxncyha, you're welcome to ask here -if- you drop your requirement that anyone here has to be at a certain level -and- you tell us exactly what your goals are, what you want to accomplish, clearly so that we understand. also, there is the channel #letsencrypt which may or may not be closer to what you're looking for
20:07 < qoxncyha> jim: i'm sorry
20:07 < Dagmar> Also, wtf webserver doesn't have a documentroot
20:07 < Psi-Jack> None
20:07 < ayecee> a webserver serving only dynamic content
20:07 < jim> qoxncyha, no problem, and, those are the boundaries
20:07 < qoxncyha> specifically, the (certbot-specific) postdeploy script i'm testing will chgrp -R ssl-cert /etc/letsnecrypt
20:08 < Dagmar> If it's not actually a webserver but some bizarre AJAX service,  you're going to be using DNS for this.
20:08 < qoxncyha> Dagmar: yep
20:08 < ayecee> or haproxy in front :)
20:08 < qoxncyha> ayecee: yep
20:08 < qoxncyha> right now the service is interfacing directly with the public-facing internet
20:08 < Dagmar> Or, because working brains do these sorts of things, simply code support into the AJAX server to read the certbot generated file and serve it
20:08 < qoxncyha> it requires manually copying the ssl cert directly
20:09 < qoxncyha> Dagmar: this is a production website
20:09 < alexandre9099> Psi-Jack, how about network activity per proccess? there is iotop for disk, but i'm not sure about network :)
20:09 < Dagmar> qoxncyha: See, now I'm even less interested
20:09 < qoxncyha> Dagmar: thanks
20:09 < qman__> So do DNS validation, what is the problem?
20:09 < qoxncyha> qman__: no problem
20:09 < qoxncyha> just stating my problem because there is a lot of interest
20:09 < qoxncyha> i could always use a second opinion
20:10 < Dagmar> You should ask your boss to hire someone qualified for the job.
20:10 < alexandre9099> nethogs, maybe?
20:10 < ayecee> come on man
20:10 < ayecee> get over yourself
20:10 < mattfly> how from inside a running X sessions i can tell xrdp to allow connections to control that session remotelly?
20:10 < wizzi> still with booting problem...how can i edit grub ?
20:11 < bls> wizzi: is windows also on this box? if so, you're going to have to take steps to protect grub
20:11 < Dagmar> Well, keep boot media around to reinstall grub
20:12 < Dagmar> There's not really any "protecting" it from Windows tender mercies
20:12 < jim> wizzi, you might want to say much more about what your booting problem is...
20:12 < Dagmar> ...and if the box is UEFI because that changes a few things
20:13 < jim> wizzi, also, there is a #grub channel here, in case you want to try there too
20:13 < Jenz> NASA Guys
20:13 < wizzi> i just installed kali and after installing the machine told me no to boot
20:13 < Jenz> Just saying, you might want to check out what's going on
20:13 < wizzi> noothing to boot
20:14 < Dagmar> Jenz: eh?
20:14 < Dagmar> Let me guess.  They found either glitter or those damn yellow pellet gun pellets on Mars
20:15 < Dagmar> My guess is glitter
20:15 < jim> wizzi, why not try debian, and then get whatever is not in debian but is in kali, in debianized source form, build those packages on debian and then you might have what you want
20:16 < Jenz> Dagmar: Better
20:16 < Trel> BCMM: I went the alias route, seems to work in bash, gotta check in dash later
20:17 < wizzi> i just want to benifit from that
20:17 < wizzi> any solution ?
20:18 < jim> wizzi, kali is specialized, and I think from what I've heard/seen that kali is meant to be booted as a live image, as opposed to being installed
20:18 < Dagmar> This is true
20:18 < mawk> I need to do realtime stuff
20:18 < redredhathat> Can i compile CMake myself?
20:18 < mawk> why not ?
20:19 < mawk> what's the best patch for that
20:19 < redredhathat> I dunno
20:19 < jim> redredhathat, is there somewhere you can get cmake source/
20:19 < jim> ?
20:19 < redredhathat> yea
20:19 < redredhathat> although they have a binary
20:20 < jim> ok, what's the problem exactly?
20:20 < Dagmar> mawk: Are you certain you need realtime, or do you just need a higher-resolution time slicer?
20:20 < wizzi> jim but i installed it and stayed the boot
20:21 < wizzi> is that from grub ?
20:21 < mawk> it's for electronics on a raspberry pi, Dagmar
20:21 < mawk> for bit banging
20:21 < mawk> I wouldn't want to get preempted in the middle of some microsecond-accurate operation
20:21 < ayecee> she bangs, she bangs
20:21 < ayecee> oh baby yes she shifts, she shifts
20:22 < jim> #!#!?
20:22 < Dagmar> mawk: I was under the impression people big-banged those IO pins all the time using the default Raspbian kernel
20:22 < mawk> yeah but these people are wrong
20:22 < mawk> they even do that from python
20:23 < ayecee> the savages!
20:23 < mawk> indeed
20:23 < mawk> Dagmar: it's good enough for flashing a led with a millisecond period
20:23 < mawk> but for µs I'm not sure
20:24 < Dagmar> mawk: Chase this breadcrumb https://guysoft.wordpress.com/2017/10/09/realtimepi/
20:24 < Dagmar> mawk: There's basically just one patch set to apply to the kernel for realtime stuff, and this guy appears to have done the minor work necessary to replace Raspbian's kernel
20:24 < Dagmar> You *might* be able to just dig up an -rt modified kernel with apt
20:25 < Dagmar> ...instead of having to recompile the damn thing yourself on a Pi (which will be a little time-consuming)
20:25 < jim> the latest stretch has an rt version of the current debian kernel
20:25 < mawk> yeah it's the preempt-rt patch so
20:25 < mawk> I tried this one, and also the xenomai patch set
20:26 < mawk> xenomai looks more advanced, but I've not done advanced testing
20:27 < mawk> I use buildroot to cross-compile for the Pi, it's pretty good
20:30 < bn_work> hi, when i do `command | egrep "^A*`, that should only show lines that start with `A`, no?
20:30 < koala_man> bn_work: that start with zero or more As
20:31 < ayecee> shoulda coulda woulda
20:31 < bn_work> from command
20:31 < koala_man> "Banana" matches because it starts with zero As
20:31 < bn_work> ok, so I need `^A+` or `^A`?
20:31 < koala_man> yes
20:32 < ayecee> XD
20:32 < bn_work> hmm, why are neither of those working
20:32 < ayecee> one can only speculate
20:33 < ayecee> because one does not have access to the command, nor a description of the result
20:33 < A4L> Hey how to print directly from pc to fax without a modem just with one telephone cable
20:33 < jim> bn_work, do you think it should be [^A]*?
20:33 < ayecee> jim: no
20:34 < ayecee> that's a long way of typing "i didn't read the question"
20:34 < jim> doesn't ^A+ (for example) mean "starts with at least one A"?
20:34 < ayecee> yes
20:35 < jim> oh, is that what he wants/
20:35 < jim> ?
20:35 < ayecee> yes
20:35 < bn_work> ayecee: it's a tool called borgbackup, I'm doing a dry-run create operation to diff current local state against backup and it should output a list of files it's processed and prefix each new file with an "A", but I'm getting everything
20:36 < ayecee> bn_work: so what is the command, and what is the result
20:36 < koala_man> bn_work: is it writing to stderr?
20:36 < knobo> Does anyone here know what a wifi card is sending when I'm not connected to any net?
20:36 < knobo> Is there a tool that can monitor this?
20:36 < knobo> radio monitor or something like this?
20:37 < bn_work> koala_man: how would I check?
20:37 < bn_work> I'm assuming it's writing to stdout
20:38 < redredhathat> hey, so i managed to build a library properly locally, do i have to point a package that is dependant on that lib to where this one is installed
20:38 < bn_work> ayecee:  do you have borgbackup?
20:38 < ayecee> no
20:38 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: You will be assimilated!
20:38 < ayecee> _finally_
20:38 < koala_man> bn_work: use yourcommand 2> /dev/null | egrep whatever   and see if all the output suddenly disappears
20:38 < ayecee> always wanted a laser eye scanner
20:39 < Psi-Jack> bn_work: why are you trying to do that anyway?
20:41 < Johnjay> hey I just heard github was assimilated into the borg.
20:41 < Johnjay> where to host code now?
20:41 < andrei-n> Is there a way to catch the interrupt instructions on linux?  (I know they are illegal, so perhaps there should be a way to use them somehow...)
20:42 < jprjr> Johnjay: wherever you'd like
20:42 < jprjr> Maybe just keep it on github until something happens
20:43 < dgurney> Johnjay, there's no reason to leave github because MS bought it
20:43 < Jenz> ; Methane found on mars, Methane only lasts 300 years; 95% of earths methane comes from life, loads of things that might be because of life.
20:43 < dgurney> unless something happens to it, there's no hurry to leave
20:43  * Jenz Is done with his off topic stuff for now
20:43 < Johnjay> dgurney: you can take your chances there
20:43 < dgurney> that said, gitlab is a popular alternative that a lot of people are migrating to
20:43 < redredhathat> can anyone help me with a package im trying to compile?
20:43 < Johnjay> ok
20:43 < redredhathat> I built another dependency it wanted, but i dont know how to point it to the one i built
20:43 < koala_man> andrei-n: the x86/x86_64 'int' instruction? it's not illegal
20:44 < bn_work> koala_man: it's not showing anything now, hmm, so with that I'm just redirecting fd2 (stderr) to /dev/null?
20:44 < jprjr> redredhathat: you probably need to pass some CFLAGS and LDFLAGS to whatever build system its using, assuming you're talking about a c/c++ package
20:44 < redredhathat> its glib
20:45 < redredhathat> I had to build zlib for it to work
20:45 < koala_man> bn_work: yes. and it means that you can use yourcommand 2>&1 | egrep ...  to grep stderr as well as stdout
20:45 < bn_work> koala_man: so do I need to merge stderr output with stdout for it to work?  or... I wonder it this is the reason, not invoke the wrapper script with -x?
20:45 < koala_man> as in bash -x? that doesn't matter
20:46 < bn_work> yeah
20:46 < jprjr> well 1) I'm nervous you didn't just install a libz-dev or zlib-devel or whatever package, 2) you probably just need to run CFLAGS="-I/path/to/zlib/include -L/path/to/zlib/lib" ./configure --blahblah
20:46 < bn_work> I figured that might spit everything out in stderr mode
20:46 < jprjr> But the better answer is to use your package manager to get the right dev package. glib should be in there, too, unless you specifically need a newer version or something
20:47 < redredhathat> jprjr i dont have sudo on this box
20:47 < redredhathat> so anything i want i have to build myself
20:47 < andrei-n> koala_man, how so?  It results in a segmentation fault when I use it...
20:48 < jprjr> I think pkgsrc lets you compile+install packages in your home directory, might want to look into setting that up
20:48 < bn_work> thanks koala_man!
20:48 < redredhathat> ill take a look jprjr
20:48 < redredhathat> thank you
20:48 < jprjr> Otherwise, generally speaking, you just need to figure out the right CFLAGS/LDFLAGS to pass to configure, or look into how to manually specify include/lib folders to search in (depending on build system)
20:49 < jprjr> But pkgsrc has already done all that work for you so I'd go that route
20:49 < A4L> Fakk what is happening to github
20:49 < A4L> Is gitlab ok
20:49 < A4L> ??
20:50 < dskull> github got bought by M$. gitlab apparently sux? I use bitbucket personally
20:50 < Psi-Jack> Depends on what you consider "OK"
20:50 < yaldak> Who cares
20:51 < dskull> all the source code that just got eaten by M$ might care? they'll steal that shit
20:51 < yaldak> bitbucket is great, GH being bought by microsoft isn't the end
20:51 < redredhathat> but what if i told you that GitLab runs on MS azure?
20:51 < dgurney> eh, I still don't think a knee-jerk reaction of instant migration is a good reaction to a purchase
20:51 < redredhathat> so really, everyone is just overreacting
20:51 < dgurney> redredhathat, exactly
20:51 < yaldak> agreed, overreacting
20:52 < dskull> i cancelled my netflix due to some shady backside political dealings
20:52 < redredhathat> If anything is going to change, its the pricing
20:52 < dgurney> I'm all for migration, but only when there's an actual reason for doing it
20:52 < redredhathat> and i bet most of the github users are the free plan
20:52 < yaldak> MS will piss off developers worldwide if they implode github
20:52 < yaldak> thats bad for them
20:52 < redredhathat> ^
20:52 < yaldak> they can mess up office and windows but github is a different animla
20:53 < yaldak> and lets not forget they are contributing to git as a technology
20:53 < yaldak> i am cool with that
20:54 < ayecee> we also remember how they contributed to java as a technology
20:54 < yaldak> heh, i think the courts taught them that lesson though
20:54 < Psi-Jack> I dunno. For me it's wait and see.
20:55 < Psi-Jack> The newest CEO of Microsoft has actually so far been showing good signs.
20:55 < dgurney> Psi-Jack, that's almost too reasonable
20:55 < yaldak> It is wait and see. I am not a fan of them too overall but any explosion won't happen today
20:55 < yaldak> agreed
20:55 < Psi-Jack> But, I do run my own Gitea server, regardless, and github is already JUST a clone of everything I have. :)
20:56 < pankaj> Dagmar: Sorry for late response and thanks for your answer.
20:57 < netprobs> Is it possible to connect to a WPA2 wifi using nmcli without knowing your device id?
20:57 < dgurney> I use github for my configuration repository and gentoo overlay
20:57 < pankaj> Dagmar: Can I align partitions using parted or I have to use fdisk for that? And what about if I want to specify the 'END' while creating a partition that will occupy till last end of device?
20:58 < dgurney> all else is on my own server
20:58 < netprobs> I wanted to configure an ubuntu image that is going to be used on several devices, and I didn't want to manually configure their device ID for each and every one
20:59 < Psi-Jack> Hell, I even mirror stuff I use regularly from GitHub to my own gitea server.
20:59 < dgurney> gitea seems nice
21:00 < Psi-Jack> It's quite nice.
21:03 < dgurney> haven't bothered setting up anything like that myself though, because the most basic server setup using ssh does all I need
21:04 < jprjr> gitea is pretty awesome, I use that for my private repos
21:06 < ldlework> I'm gonna try to get nixops to deploy gitea
21:10 < Psi-Jack> nixops?
21:15 < revel> Something to deploy NixOS machines, it seems.
21:15  * Psi-Jack cringes.
21:21 < jprjr> Why the cringe?
21:22 < Psi-Jack>  nixos
21:23 < jprjr> eh, not my cup of tea but I don't think I'd call it cringe-worthy. That's reserved for Kali installations
21:23 < jprjr> Nix has some pretty interesting ideas re: package management
21:24 < Psi-Jack> No.. Not.. Really.
21:25 < Psi-Jack> I dunno actually. Never used it hehe
21:25 < Mibix> Is there something like acronis that you can run on linux?  Trying to get it to backup my OS drive to an external drive then I can have a recovery disk to restore the image if the drive ever fails
21:25 < jprjr> Agree to disagree. I guess I'm just not a fan of the whole "cringe-culture" I see happening on the internet, I think that's more what I'm responding to
21:25 < Psi-Jack> Just the name makes me cringe.
21:25 < Mibix> i want it to make backups on a schedule too
21:26 < dgurney> https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/8pc8mf/im_nat_friedman_future_ceo_of_github_ama/
21:26 < Psi-Jack> Mixologic: don't know what acronis is. But a great backup is borgbackup
21:27 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: to bad that's on reddit.
21:27 < dgurney> Psi-Jack, you just can't win with Linux users :)
21:28 < alexandre9099> hi again, on "last" the entries that show with :0 are from localhost right? should i ignore them?
21:28 < Psi-Jack> Well I banned the troll festuring reddit.
21:29 < jprjr> Yeah, don't you block *.reddit.com in your local DNS? I think I remember you mentioning that
21:29 < Psi-Jack> Yes
21:29  * jprjr cringes
21:29 < meyou_> yikes
21:29 < Psi-Jack> And firewalls
21:29 < revel> He also gets around it with a proxy.
21:29 < meyou_> tfw you hate reddit but also lack self control
21:29 < Psi-Jack> I do not
21:29 < jprjr> Just giving you a hard time for cringing at NixOS when the reality is we all do cringey shit
21:30 < dgurney> banning websites is one of the most stupid things I can think of
21:30 < Psi-Jack> I think I still have like a -99 karma or some nonsense on reddit the one single time I used it. Trolls.
21:30 < meyou_> maybe it's you
21:30 < Psi-Jack> Not worth the waste of space it is.
21:31 < dgurney> well, it still seems excessive to ban an entire site because of a few bad users
21:31 < Psi-Jack> No it was just trolls.
21:31 < dgurney> but hey, you do you
21:31 < Psi-Jack> I do me. And my wife. Hehe
21:31 < jprjr> Yes but, let's say a link to reddit pops up. Is it necessary to proclaim how awful reddit is, vs just not interact with it?
21:32 < jprjr> It's really distracting, now instead of discussing whatever the reddit link was about, we're discussing why you would block reddit at the DNS level.
21:33 < Psi-Jack> Success! Hehe
21:33 < meyou_> that's fine but don't you dare say thx instead of thanks
21:33 < Psi-Jack> ^
21:34 < El_Presidente> hi, I have two servers running but only one ipv4 address and I have most of my websites on server 1 but one on server 2. so I forwarded the one domain with sslproxyengine. "SSLProxyEngine On" "ProxyPass / https://domainname.com/" "ProxyPassReverse / https://domainname.com/" The proxy works but ssllabs shows me that on the ipv4 address of that domain I have TWO HSTS headers now. What can I do
21:34 < El_Presidente> against that?
21:34 < dgurney> well now that I read through the AMA further, this guy seems alright
21:35 < jprjr> So instead of discussing the pros and cons of github and the possible future direction of it, you'd rather derail the entire conversation just because reddit was involved with some part of it?
21:35 < jprjr> Like who's the troll now? I'd argue right now, it's not reddit.
21:35 < Psi-Jack> El_Presidente: don't send multiple hsts headers.
21:36 < Psi-Jack> jprjr: is this ##linux or ##github?
21:36 < meyou_> pretty sure it's ##psi-jacksnarcissiticplayhouse
21:37 < dgurney> shots fired!
21:37 < Psi-Jack> Missed. And easy fix.
21:37 < jprjr> That's fair, but I'd also point out it's not ##shitonreddit either
21:38 < jprjr> And at least discussing what's going on with github may have some value to the users of ##linux who likely have code on there, are concerned about the direction of github, seeking advice on what (if anything) they should be aware of
21:39 < jprjr> The whole "hey I think reddit sucks" just derailed that whole thing and I'm not a fan. Again, why?
21:40 < dgurney> well I'm not sure dragging this on will help matters jprjr
21:41 < uberwag> hi guys, is there a syslinux menu editor that can help me design the menu without having to build the whole thing over and over and booting it in vm?
21:41 < jprjr> dgurney: you're right, I'll drop it. But I really hope Psi-Jack will reconsider when it's appropriate to shit on reddit vs when it's more appropriate to just let it go.
21:41 < meyou_> dgurney, just gotta hammer home that Psi-Jack's irc karma is worse than his reddit karma. maybe he'll block freenode on his fw :D
21:43 < El_Presidente> Psi-Jack, so I must remove the hsts header on server 1 for that particular domain? I can do that of course, I was just looking if there is a config option for sslproxy
21:43 < bls> uberwag: tried asking in #syslinux ?
21:44 < uberwag> yea
21:49 < jprjr> uberwag: what do you mean by "build the whole thing over and over"? Last time I built up a syslinux menu, I remember it being pretty easy to boot it up in qemu. Edit in vim, save, boot in qemu, wash/rinse/repeat
21:50 < uberwag> jprjr: then it's my lack of knowledge, but how do i build only the syslinux menu and boot that?
21:50 < uberwag> because right now i am building the whole iso image, instead of just the syslinux menu
21:50 < uberwag> which is taking lots of time
21:51 < jprjr> What I did (and this may be kinda hacky) is install syslinux to a USB stick, edit the syslinux.cfg, and boot qemu from the USB stick
21:52 < uberwag> jprjr: you got that info from some kind of guide online, or did it yourself? if online, can you show me so i can see which cmds to use?
21:54 < jprjr> It was a while ago, but I recall just passing /dev/sdX (where X is the right letter for the USB stick) to qemu, like "qemu-kvm -hda /dev/sdb"
21:55 < jprjr> I'd put some known, good ISO onto a USB stick and figure out how to boot that in qemu first so you know you've got your qemu command-line right
21:55 < uberwag> jprjr: ok will experiment little, thanks
21:55 < jprjr> uberwag: no problem, you're very welcome!
22:01 < pankaj> Is their any standard procedure to replace systemd with systemv?
22:02 < ayecee> sure, sed s/systemd/systemv/
22:02 < jprjr> pankaj: I think you mean SysVInit. I don't know if there's a true standard procedure for that, you're modifying parts of the distro that the maintainers likely never intended users to swap out.
22:03 < ayecee> there's no standard procedure for that.
22:03 < jprjr> pankaj: may as well setup Linux From Scratch at that point, or just go with a distro that uses it from the get-go.
22:03 < ayecee> there's not even an unstandard procedure for that.
22:03 < SuperSeriousCat> You dont replace it. You replace your distro or if you use things like Gentoo, you just dont install systemd
22:04 < ayecee> would be like asking how to replace the frame of a car.
22:04 < pankaj> jprjr: OK. I have already build linux from scratch system.
22:04 < pankaj> jprjr: And yes, sysvinit
22:04 < jprjr> I wanna say I once saw some distro that would let you switch around between a few init systems
22:04 < Psi-Jack> Hey. How do you replace the frame of your car.... Using Linux?
22:04 < bls> debian used to let you pick
22:04 < ayecee> lol
22:04 < Psi-Jack> Hehe
22:04 < jprjr> But yeah none of the majors let you do that, at least not anymore
22:05 < dgurney> well technically speaking you can switch the init system on any distro
22:05 < dgurney> but should you?
22:05 < ayecee> you're asking?
22:06 < dgurney> nope
22:06 < ayecee> ooh, it's one of those fancy rhetorical questions the kids are so crazy about
22:06 < ayecee> that and spinners
22:06 < SuperSeriousCat> Yoyo's?
22:06 < pankaj> jprjr: Other then the parallel process support what are the other features on which systemd scores more?
22:07 < phinxy> Did 'aptitude' just reset/nullify my apt-hold:ed packages?
22:07 < bls> spinners? the rims or the toys/
22:07 < phinxy> apt-mark hold*
22:07 < Psi-Jack> What? No help for my car frame problem? You guys stuck. Lol
22:07 < ayecee> heh. "get on my level."
22:08 < bls> pankaj: systemd also does process supervision, device handling, provides a message bus, logging, networking, a cron replacement, etc etc etc
22:08 < pankaj> bls: So these were not in sysvinit? (It may be hard to believe if answer is yes)
22:09 < bls> pankaj: no, sysvinit expected you to add those things on separately if you needed them
22:09 < jprjr> For me the main systemd advantage is forking isn't required. It actually supervises the process, can auto-restart it, things like that. I don't believe sysvinit has that at all.
22:09 < justsomeguy> pankaj: It can be easier to kill child processes spawned by a service since they inherit the services cgroup. You can also do use different namespace features to isolate services through options in the *.service unit.
22:10 < jprjr> You can also do process supervision with runit, s6, upstart, launchd, basically everything that's not sysvinit
22:11 < d3fragg3d> I have just registered my new nick however it says You are already logged in as d3fragg3d when I try to use the register command fromthe email, and in a channel like #linux I still cant send a message, what am I doing wrong?
22:12 < lleo> is there a keep alternative exact the same without chrome?
22:12 < bls> d3fragg3d: try asking #freenode
22:12 < d3fragg3d> oops sorry haha pressed up to the wrong message.
22:12 < d3fragg3d> so I have a nfs storage drive connected to my network, however sudo showmount -e <IP> does not show any shared folders, is there something I am missing. It does have auth, do I need to use that on showmount somehow to see the folders that are shared?
22:12 < d3fragg3d> there we go :P
22:12 < GunqqerFriithian> lxpanel is taking 12% of the ram on my headless pi server, should it be doing that?
22:13 < bls> d3fragg3d: sounds like you might need to revisit the export options on the NFS box
22:13 < pankaj> bls: OK.
22:13 < pankaj> justsomeguy: OK. Understood.
22:13 < d3fragg3d> bls: oh ok, so what I am doing should work?
22:14 < bls> d3fragg3d: if the exports are set up to allow you, yes, showmount will list all the things you have access to
22:14 < pankaj> justsomeguy: Just that 'namespace feature'?
22:14 < d3fragg3d> bls: perhaps I should just try to mount it right away
22:15 < d3fragg3d> actually I don't think I can because I don't know what to mount, i.e <IP>:/somenfsfolder/
22:16 < justsomeguy> pankaj: I'm not sure what's it's called, but there are options available in the config file format that let you control what areas of the filesystem are available to a service when it runs (fs namespace isolation), others that can limit the services view of the network, etc. You'll have to read systemd.unit or something to figure out the exact terminology -- I don't remember it offhand.
22:16 < justsomeguy> *systemd.unit manpage, that is.
22:17 < bls> all those things are available outside systemd as well, it's just made them first class config items
22:18 < jprjr> Oh yeah I forgot about that feature of systemd - you can mount filesystems with it, so you can have a service depend on an NFS share being mounted, things like that. Pretty handy
22:18 < pankaj> justsomeguy: First I will understand sysvinit and then systemd. I heard by developers its design is too complex and they are not much pleased by it because it does not support unix philosophy. I also had hard time when I do not knew them while starting using linux.
22:18 < Mibix> so there is no way to do scheduled backups of entire partitions or disks?  I want to be able to restore a new disk from one of the backups if the drive is to fail
22:18 < bls> Mibix: there are ways, yes
22:18 < Mibix> basically acronis on linux is what im looking for :D
22:18 < justsomeguy> pankaj: Well, do whatever you like. It's your time after all. Just wanted to chime in about a cool feature. :^)
22:18 < bls> Mibix: but doing low level block device backups isn't very efficient
22:19 < pankaj> justsomeguy: Thanks
22:19 < bls> Mibix: if you're using LVM, it has a snapshot feature
22:20 < justsomeguy> Mibix: CloneZilla and fsarchiver are good tools for that. There are probably thousands out there.
22:20 < jprjr> pankaj: I feel like using an init system like s6 or runit is decent for people that want process supervision without everything else that systemd does
22:20 < jprjr> Basically sysvinit and systemd aren't the only two out there
22:23 < Mibix> justsomeguy nah clonezilla wont take scheduled backups
22:24 < bls> Mibix: so you want some all in one monolithic application rather than putting existing pieces together to achieve what you want?
22:24 < jprjr> cron+rsync will probably get you really close.
22:25 < Happyhobo> Isn't that what we all want bls?
22:25 < jprjr> If your backup software doesn't set its own schedule, then just schedule it with cron
22:27 < bls> Happyhobo: no, quite the opposite
22:29 < justsomeguy> Is the netlink socket that udev reads represented as a file on the filesystem?
22:29  * justsomeguy is kind of bewildered as to how udev gets kernel uevents from netlink.
22:31 < ayecee> i don't think it is. i think it's a network namespace, like ipv4 or ipv6.
22:32 < Dagmar> It is
22:32 < ayecee> or like a unix socket, except that has a file representation
22:35 < mawk> justsomeguy: just read man 7 netlink if you want to try
22:37 < netprobs> Can you connect to wifi using the command line without using ifname
22:37 < ayecee> probably yes, with wpa_supplicant in most cases
22:38 < netprobs> even if its wpa2-801X
22:38 < ayecee> yes
22:38 < netprobs> okay thank you
22:38 < ayecee> wpa_supplicant takes care of the key management and such
22:38 < justsomeguy> mawk: I just did. I'm still confused by a few things, though. I can't say I really understand what a unix socket is yet, for example. Thank you for pointing the manpage out, though.
22:39  * Pentode is beginning to hate quaternions 
22:39 < ayecee> a unix socket file is almost like a symlink, except it points into a network namespace instead of the file namespace.
22:41 < justsomeguy> hmm
22:43  * Pentode sings everything is a fiiiiile
22:44 < ayecee> except the many counterexamples
22:44 < Pentode> everything else is a pseuuudo fille
22:44 < ayecee> still counterexamples :)
22:44 < Pentode> i think this upper respiratory infection is taking me away
22:45 < ayecee> ick
22:45 < ayecee> hope that clears up
22:45 < Pentode> its getting there, yesterday was the worst.
22:46  * justsomeguy just started out wanting to learn how device management works for his test objective, and ended up wanting to learn C, how linux works internally, and how it communicates with userspace. :^)
22:46 < justsomeguy> s/and/but/
22:47 < Pentode> yeah it has that effect on people
22:47 < justsomeguy> Fun stuff.
22:48 < justsomeguy> Oh, oops. Get better soon, Pentode
22:48 < ayecee> you have entered into the mystery and wonder which is the kernel
22:48 < justsomeguy> :^D
22:48 < mawk> you shouldn't use the word namespace ayecee
22:48 < Pentode> yeah your life is over
22:48 < Pentode> ;)
22:48 < mawk> it means something else
22:48 < ayecee> but it's such a good looking word
22:49 < mawk> lol
22:49 < ayecee> no, it means this
22:49 < ayecee> it can also mean other things
22:49 < mawk> with linux I mean
22:49 < mawk> it's something special
22:49 < ayecee> yes, with linux
22:49  * Psi-Jack executes ayecee in a namespace.
22:49 < mawk> espcially a network namespace is something special on its own
22:50 < ayecee> i will consider your suggestions for alternative language
22:50 < ayecee> a file is something that can be named. a socket is also something that can be named, but not within a file context.
22:50 < justsomeguy> Gotcha.
22:51 < ayecee> you can have a restricted file namespace (a chroot), where you can't name anything outside the chroot
22:52  * Psi-Jack locks ayecee away in a namespace with his own isolated iproute namespace and reduces cgroup resources to bare minimums.
22:53 < justsomeguy> Sounds like an episode of black mirror.
22:53 < Psi-Jack> Heh, I haven't watched that... yet.
22:54 < justsomeguy> You'll sleep better if you don't watch it.
22:54 < Psi-Jack> I sleep amazingly well, always.
22:54  * justsomeguy is jealous of Psi-Jack's sleeping abilities.
22:55 < jprjr> If you're having trouble with sleep just read the man page
22:55 < ayecee> XD
22:55 < ayecee> but the sleep manpage does not cover sleep apnea :(
22:56 < Psi-Jack> Just 10mg of Melatonin, 1,000mg of Niacinamide, and about 300mg of Oleamide, plus the APAP machine.. Sleep is awesome. :)
22:56 < ayecee> hah, could sleep through a fire with that
22:56 < Psi-Jack> heh
22:57 < ayecee> also TIL oleamide
22:57 < Psi-Jack> Heh
22:57 < qman__> Heh, I've always had trouble sleeping, though ky new bed has helped considerably
22:57 < Psi-Jack> Wierd stuff, but... It works well together with the niacinamide.
22:57 < leopard> anyone had any experience with USB powered portable monitors and linux? debating if I should get one
22:58 < Pentode> leopard, well. sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. ;p
22:58 < ayecee> i hadn't heard of niacinimide with sleep before
22:58 < jprjr> My experience, not linux-specific, but if the video is done over USB its usually pretty terrible quality
22:58 < Pentode> i have a cheap one and it kinda works. but it is a cheap one.
22:59 < leopard> cheap as in $100-200? I'm looking at a Asus one sub-$200 right now
22:59 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: Well, it certainly works. Got the idea from Steve Gibson's Healthy Sleep Formula, actually.
22:59 < Pentode> your best bet would be to find one some linux user has already got going and get that one i suppose
22:59 < ayecee> innteresting
22:59 < justsomeguy> I used a "DisplayLink" video over USB monitor once. It was suuuper sluggish.
22:59 < Pentode> yeah it was like 99.98 ;p
22:59 < ayecee> usb monitor would be good for slow update stuff like a text console rather than streaming video
22:59 < Pentode> it's really not bad actually
23:00 < Psi-Jack> What about libart video? ;)
23:00 < Pentode> i mean obviously there is lag but it's tolerable
23:00 < ayecee> libart movies are the best movies
23:00 < jprjr> You don't appreciate how fast your text console actually is until you're using a slow USB monitor
23:00 < leopard> All I want is a "portable" hdmi moniter, but the cheap one's are all self-powered USB models
23:01 < qman__> USB is miles better than printed tape consoles
23:01 < Psi-Jack> leopard: Heh. You don't want a USB "monitor" like  you think you do.
23:01 < ayecee> probably also want usb3 too
23:01 < leopard> yeah probably not
23:01 < Psi-Jack> And they're not USB powered because USB doesn't provide enough power to power them.
23:01 < leopard> They all claim to be usb powered. USB3 of course
23:02 < ayecee> i've never had one, so i'm wildly speculating
23:02 < ayecee> as is tradition
23:02 < Pentode> mine works off usb but not off 500mA laptop ports obviously ;)
23:02 < leopard> https://www.amazon.ca/ASUS-MB168B-Portable-USB-Powered-Monitor/dp/B00FE690DI/
23:02 < leopard> That for example
23:02 < qman__> USB can't power a traditional lcd monitor, but it could power a phone screen
23:03 < ayecee> doesn't have to power the monitor, just the usb->hdmi interface.
23:03 < Pentode> the one i have is 13.3 inches or something like that. it draws about 990mA
23:03 < ayecee> ah
23:03 < Pentode> so yeah its cutting it close i guess
23:03 < ayecee> unless it includes a monitor too, i suppose
23:04 < qman__> I imagine it's a tablet screen
23:04 < Pentode> leopard, is this for a laptop or a pc?
23:04 < Pentode> well thats pretty much what they are
23:04 < Pentode> the cheap ones at least
23:05 < leopard> The one I linked is targeted at laptop users
23:06 < qman__> Probably still needs a battery or at least a reasonable capacitor
23:06 < qman__> But it's not impossible
23:07 < Pentode> thing is most laptops i've seen have 500ma ports, aside from some that may have one high output port. not to say there arent ones that have multiple high power ports but i dont think its very common
23:07 < leopard> According to the product desc the only interface is a single usb 3 port, no battery listed.
23:07 < leopard> I feel like the power requirements for usb3 are higher than 500ma
23:09 < leopard> apparently the USB3 spec calls for 900ms
23:09 < leopard> 900mA*
23:10 < lope93> if i have like this https://pastebin.com/PxQ0LTjz , how can i decrypt it
23:10 < Psi-Jack> 900ms cycling at 900mA waves?
23:10 < Psi-Jack> :)
23:11 < qman__> lope93: that is a key
23:11 < lope93> qman__: yes i know
23:11 < qman__> You don't decrypt keys
23:12 < qman__> You use keys to encrypt or decrypt other things
23:12 < ayecee> there's an encrypted message as well
23:12 < ayecee> was it encrypted with the public key or the private key?
23:12 < nkz> hey, is there something like WinDirStat for linux? Something that can show me visualization of files on my PC? I am running out of space
23:12  * Psi-Jack encypts qman__ with a 4096Mbit AES cipher.
23:13 < qman__> Oh, the popup covered up the message
23:13 < ayecee> the bits are all zeros
23:13 < qman__> Use a better pastebin, btw
23:13 < Psi-Jack> lope93: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
23:13 < ayecee> meh. works fine for me.
23:13 < Psi-Jack> No, it never does.
23:14 < Psi-Jack> Kinda the problem. :p
23:14 < bls> nkz: ncdu
23:14 < ayecee> except that yes, it did
23:16 < Fieldy> the bits are all zeroes when you get malvertising from them too. enjoy
23:16 < Fieldy> when folks helping are volunteers, they get to set the terms :)
23:16 < Fieldy> when you pay help, then you can tell them how to do things
23:16 < Psi-Jack> Or cryptojacks you. :)
23:17 < ayecee> pfft.
23:17 < ayecee> what is this, the 90s
23:17 < Psi-Jack> Unfortunately it's not. it was safer in the 90's than it is today. :p
23:17 < ayecee> i remain skeptical
23:17 < Jari--> hi
23:17 < Jari--> Psi-Jack: EOR encrypt it!
23:18 < ayecee> double rot13 ftw
23:18  * Psi-Jack XOR encrypts Jari-- 
23:18  * Jari-- is puzzled
23:18 < ayecee> obfuscated*
23:25 < Zajt> I installed a newer version of my firefox to my kali linux, and to run it, I do: ./firefox in it's folder. But I can't right click on the icon in the menu bar and make it be stored there so I don't need to open the folder every time I wanna start firefox. How can I fix this?
23:26 < Psi-Jack> Zajt: Don't expect much people to help you with your Kali here.
23:26 < ayecee> racist
23:26 < Psi-Jack> Kali is NOT a desktop distro.
23:27 < ayecee> Zajt: add the folder to your path ahead of the older version
23:29 < ayecee> to make it permanent, you'd edit your ~/.bashrc or ~/.bash_profile
23:33 < Psi-Jack> Or use a distro intended for desktop use. ;)
23:34 < Zajt> haha kali is nice
23:34 < Zajt> all tools are useful for me
23:34 < Psi-Jack> It's locked down, not designed nor intended for general everyday ue.
23:34 < spare> running a browser as root isnt very useful to you
23:34 < Psi-Jack> ^
23:34 < Zajt> it's in a VM
23:34 < ayecee> well, you _say_ that...
23:35 < searedvandal> wait, you shouldn't run everything as root?
23:35 < ayecee> what could go wrong
23:35 < syb0rg> everyone knows real hackers only use root
23:37 < Psi-Jack> If it's in a VM, why do you even need another version of Firefox for it?
23:37 < Psi-Jack> I mean, it's also well knwon that Firefox itself is highly vulnerable to many issues. And its trend still continues to prove that.
23:37 < ayecee> "highly" is a word that smug people use
23:37 < ayecee> with closed eyes
23:38 < Psi-Jack> They might. I use it with open eyes, based on history and facts.
23:38 < ldlework> lol
23:38 < ayecee> no, not metaphoric closed eyes. literal closed eyes. try saying "highly vulnerable" out loud without closing your eyes smugly.
23:39 < bls> also need to draw out the first syllable of highly to do it right
23:39 < ayecee> heh
23:44 < kazdax> how do i check how much spare space i have on my harddrive ?
23:44 < spare> df -h
23:44 < kazdax> and i have a DVD installation for Redhat linux
23:45 < kazdax> shit it seems like i used all my harddisk for sda1
23:45 < kazdax> on
23:45 < kazdax> how do i create freespace ?
23:45 < kazdax> fdisk ?
23:46 < ayecee> easiest way would be to use a livecd with gparted on it
23:46 < ayecee> like the ubuntu livecd
23:47 < kazdax> okay ..gparted is GUI ?
23:47 < ayecee> yes
23:47 < kazdax> okay cool..ill read up on about it
23:47 < kazdax> make sure i am ready and then boot into ubuntu
23:47 < ayecee> sounds good
23:50 < phinxy> How can the virtual console tty:s be started automatically before the key-combo ctrl-alt-F1 is pressed?
23:50 < ayecee> they normally are
23:50 < ayecee> what do you see instead?
23:51 < phinxy> When I switch to one of them, the .profile launches fbterm
23:51 < ayecee> i don't think i've seen that before.
23:51 < Sitri> That's screwy
23:52 < bls> didn't you set that up on purpose a week or so ago?
23:52 < phinxy> So the linux console is loaded for you guys?
23:52 < ayecee> yes
23:52 < phinxy> on all function keys?
23:52 < ayecee> on f1-f6
23:53 < kazdax> i am doing apt-get install tuxboot
23:53 < oiaohm> phinxy: distributions are free to do different configruations as well.
23:53 < kazdax> and its giving me an error ..unable to connect
23:53 < Sitri> kazdax: Can you ping out?  Can you resolve DNS queries?
23:54 < kazdax> my internet is working
23:54 < kazdax> do you mean if i can do ping ?
23:54 < kazdax> yea i can
23:54 < Sitri> For the first question, yes
23:54 < ayecee> would help if you would pastebin the whole output
23:54 < ayecee> using the pastebin in the /topic
23:54 < Raed> Is the mirror actually online?
23:55 < Sitri> ^
23:55 < kazdax> there is a binary i could ownload
23:55 < kazdax> its for ubuntu
23:55 < kazdax> i meam debian
23:55 < kazdax> but i dont know how to install that way
23:55 < kazdax> without using apt-get
23:55 < ayecee> so how about that pastebin
23:55 < kazdax> k hold on
23:56 < kazdax> https://pastebin.com/eiCRUaUR
23:56 < kazdax> but i would like to know how i would install say a tar file
23:56 < kazdax> in debian
23:56 < ayecee> dude can't read
23:57 < ayecee> this is not the error that was described.
23:57 < Raed> kazdax: This isnt a connection issue..
23:57 < ayecee> was it a different command you ran?
23:57 < kazdax> no
23:57 < kazdax> what i did i say
23:57 < kazdax> i am sorry if i said something else
23:57 < ayecee> "unable to connect"
23:57 < kazdax> ohh
23:57 < ayecee> first, "apt-get update", then "apt-cache search tuxboot"
23:57 < Raed> kazdax: Make sure it is even packaged in that repo for your distro, because it doesnt look like it is.
23:58 < ayecee> let's see the output from those.
23:58 < bls> hmm, wonder how well that thing even works. can't see it being that reliable
23:58 < kazdax> tuxboot ?
23:59 < kazdax> i could try the other options to make the Gparted USB
23:59 < ayecee> you have the iso and you want to write it to disk?
23:59 < ayecee> which OS are you in now?
23:59 < Raed> kazdax: What exactly are you trying to do with tuxboot?
23:59 < kazdax> debian
--- Log closed Fri Jun 08 00:00:01 2018