--- Log opened Wed Jun 13 00:00:56 2018
00:06 < thatpythonguy> if i have a hex color code, what's the easiest way to display it in the terminal?
00:20 < johnnyfive> @thatpythonguy, i'm not 100% on this, but I think that's shell dependant: https://misc.flogisoft.com/bash/tip_colors_and_formatting
00:22 < bls> and terminal dependent
00:22 < rascul> use the terminal to launch a gui program to view the color
00:23 < bls> https://gist.github.com/XVilka/8346728
00:23 < thatpythonguy> im working in bash in urxvt, and I would prefer to show the color withpout launching a gui
00:25 < thatpythonguy> im checking those websites rn, i appreciate it
00:25 < bls> urxvt doesn't have true color support
00:25 < Nawab>  /join ##C++-general
00:26 < Nawab>  /join ##ChatterZ
00:27 < yourname_> hi
00:27 < thatpythonguy> you're right, it says it only supports the 256 color palette
00:28 < thatpythonguy> basically, i'm using pywal and I want to see the 15 colors it generates
00:29 < dougie> What do you think is more bleeding edge? Debian Unstable or Fedora?
00:30 < rascul> neither
00:36 < kazdax> irssi is kinda crowded with its texs
00:36 < kazdax> texts
00:37 < MikeFromIT> Switch to weechat kazdax
00:37 < searedvandal> thatpythonguy, you could always take the hex codes from pywal, feed them to convert and generate a 100x100px solid image of each and open in your favorite image viewer in lack of being able to view them directly in terminal
00:38 < kazdax> mike i think i will ...just need to find a way to install weechat on rhel
00:38 < kazdax> apparenlty its not in the RHEL repos but its in the unoffical one
00:38 < searedvandal> or try your luck on github with ntc 'name that color' which gives you the color name of a hex code in terminal
00:39 < kazdax> does irssi tell you when some chat room has a new message ?
00:40 < kazdax> how does it indicate that ?
00:40 < bls> kazdax: weechat is in EPEL
00:40 < kazdax> how do i install from EPEL ?
00:40 < bls> install the repo file. that's pretty well documented on the web
00:40 < kazdax> k i figured it was something like that
00:40 < kazdax> will look into it
00:40 < kazdax> thanks
00:42 < Li> what linux command capable of giving line dicimal numbers for xxd output?
00:42 < pankaj> I am using linux  and I have ruby and ruby docs installed on my system. But sometimes I have to find about the functionality about a function. How to find that using docs and docs?
00:42 < rcowie> Hello all; I'm having issues running a Python script. Script complains I dont have 'future' module installed. 'pip install future' does install it but..... I get the same error...
00:43 < rcowie> 'python -V' shows 3.X and future module shows it lives in /path/python/2.7.x
00:43 < aokfire> Hello, I am trying to remove many files with rm
00:43 < aokfire> xargs -d '\n' -a file.list rm
00:43 < aokfire> but the filenames have * to expand over many different files with same name but diff extension
00:43 < bls> rcowie: furtures is for python2 scripts, not python3
00:43 < aokfire> so .a .b .c, etc
00:43 < bls> futures even
00:44 < rcowie> q: To address this, do I A: tell pip to install future elsewhere or B check the code of the script im trying to run to find out *where* it expects the dependency to live?
00:44 < aokfire> rm doesn't expand the glob. why and how do I fix this?
00:44 < koala_man> aokfire: neither xargs nor rm ever expands any globs. this is the job of the shell
00:44 < bls> rcowie: neither, the script probably has a bad #! line
00:44 < aokfire> koala_man any advice on how to expand then?
00:45 < rcowie> the script wont run using 'python script.py' and complains needs python3
00:45 < bls> rcowie: either change the #! to use python2.7 or invoke python2.7 directly and give it the script
00:45 < Daesh> never ever run pip as root
00:45 < Daesh> and never*
00:45 < kazdax> does yum search take a while to produce a result ?
00:46 < koala_man> aokfire: you should avoid getting into a situation where you have globs in files, but  ( IFS=$'\n'; rm $(cat file.list); )
00:46 < Daesh> yum can be horribly slow at times
00:46 < bls> rcowie: you can also try running pip3 or pip3.6 instead of just pip
00:46 < kazdax> i did a search and now its downloading stuff
00:46 < aokfire> koala_man run that command or with xargs sorry?
00:46 < kazdax> i dint know that was part of the search function of yum
00:47 < koala_man> aokfire: just that (..) group, it doesn't use xargs
00:47 < aokfire> this is very weird
00:47 < aokfire> it breaks bash if I try to autocomplete lol
00:47 < bls> kazdax: it caches the list of packages on the remote server so it doesn't have to connect every time it needs to search for something
00:47 < aokfire> what should I do in the future, is there a way to group file extensions? like {.a,.b,.c} ?
00:47 < kazdax> ahh i see
00:47 < kazdax> so it will do it just this time or when it feels like the repository is out of date
00:47 < bls> correct
00:48 < rcowie> bls - thank you so much! - 'pip3 install future' worked great - I kinda understand what happened and why too - thanks v much
00:48 < kazdax> bls how do i find out what my subcsription is ?
00:48 < aokfire> ah koala it still doesn't seem to work... :(. I run it and it still says "a.*, no such file/directory"
00:48 < koala_man> aokfire: it's a file meant for machine processing. it should just contain filenames.
00:48 < aokfire> right but
00:48 < pankaj> Hello, I have installed ruby docs. But how to use it to search ruby specific functions. They are not man pages as you know.
00:48 < aokfire> it's like 1000+ lines
00:48 < koala_man> aokfire: you'll get that warning for all patterns that don't match anything, but the rest should still delete
00:49 < aokfire> files still exist
00:49 < Daesh> rcowie: use pythonwhatever -m pip to ensure you are running the correct pip
00:49 < bls> rcowie: cheers, most distros are good about making sure either all python/pip/easy_install/etc is all the same version. weird that yours uses and undecorated python for 3 and an undecorated pip for 2
00:49 < Daesh> (and as said, never as root=
00:49 < koala_man> aokfire: is there a file a.something in the current directory?
00:49 < aokfire> yes
00:49 < aokfire> a.a, a.b, a.c
00:49 < aokfire> etc
00:49 < Daesh> bls: I suspect he has messed with `python` himself
00:49 < aokfire> and b.a, b.b, b.c
00:49 < aokfire> it's a bit messy
00:49 < bls> kazdax: talk to redhat
00:49 < aokfire> ofc it's not files named a/b/c but that's just an example
00:49 < koala_man> aokfire: does your file have carriage returns?
00:50 < aokfire> like newlines?
00:50 < koala_man> like what Windows uses for line terminators
00:50 < bls> carriage returns and newlines are different
00:50 < rcowie> Thanks chaps! - and no; didnt mess with myself - had a issue with installing requirements.txt so installed the bits it whined about
00:50 < aokfire> it should be a unix file
00:50 < aokfire> no CR
00:50 < searedvandal> pankaj, ri
00:51 < koala_man> aokfire: can you make a test case?
00:51 < aokfire> what do you mean?
00:52 < koala_man> aokfire: what are a few small commands I can type in my terminal to see the same problem you see?
00:52 < aokfire> sec koala_man I will prepare smth
00:53 < koala_man> aokfire: here's the smallest example I can make that shows it working: https://gist.github.com/koalaman/d7fdb9e21506cc06b46be6ad3ef7b080
00:54 < aokfire> yeah that should work
00:54 < aokfire> the files have space in the filenames though
00:54 < aokfire> might that be an issue?
00:55 < bls> anyone figured out a pattern to turn a short github gist link into a raw content link?
00:55 < koala_man> aokfire: works fine for me: https://gist.github.com/koalaman/4cd73fd919793ed1b2838f54afb48f85
00:56 < koala_man> what's a short github gist link?
00:56 < aokfire> those are good
00:56 < aokfire> are you using bash?
00:56 < aokfire> or even just sh?
00:56 < aokfire> this is odd
00:56 < koala_man> I'm using bash but this is sh compatible
00:57 < bls> koala_man: https://gist.github.com/koalaman/4cd73fd919793ed1b2838f54afb48f85 vs https://gist.githubusercontent.com/koalaman/4cd73fd919793ed1b2838f54afb48f85/raw/62abc43c89f352c4fc898f51f06323354f7009b4/gistfile1.txt
00:57 < koala_man> bls: just append /raw
00:58 < koala_man> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/koalaman/4cd73fd919793ed1b2838f54afb48f85/raw
00:58 < bls> ah, nice, figured there was something else being hashed on the backend that would have to be reproduced for a working link
00:59 < aokfire> koala_man yeah also just testing your test, even with spaces in filename i works
00:59 < aokfire> it
00:59 < aokfire> so I'm stumped
00:59 < aokfire> wait er
00:59 < Li> mother fuckers
01:00 < searedvandal> what?
01:00 < koala_man> aokfire: hexdump or cat -vE your file
01:00 < aokfire> f1.*$
01:00 < aokfire> file 1.*$
01:00 < aokfire> are those CRs?
01:00 < koala_man> no
01:01 < koala_man> what does  echo f1.*  say?
01:01 < aokfire> the files show up
01:02 < bls> is this that ksh weirdness where it tries to interpret tabs in streams?
01:02 < koala_man> it does that?
01:02 < aokfire> i use bash
01:03 < koala_man> aokfire: can you show post the output you're getting?
01:03 < bls> yeah, can't remember the specific case, but had a coworker hitting weird behavior either cat'ing or .'ing a file in his #!/bin/ksh script
01:04 < IHateMyIsp> rcowie: and you used pip as root?
01:05 < aokfire> koala_man https://arin.ga/FMZJ1u/raw
01:05 < aokfire> this is what i'm testing
01:05 < aokfire> it works
01:05 < aokfire> on these test files but not on the real thing
01:06 < pankaj> searedvandal: Sorry for late response. But what 'ri'?
01:06 < koala_man> aokfire: do you have an example of a real file it fails to delete?
01:06 < aokfire> yes
01:06 < pankaj> searedvandal: OK. Understook
01:07 < pankaj> searedvandal: Sorry, understood
01:07 < searedvandal> pankaj, also http://ruby-doc.org/
01:07 < aokfire> 2197431 - RECORDINGA19384 - [OK] [qwertyuiop].avi
01:07 < aokfire> koala_man
01:07 < aokfire> and I replace .avi with .*
01:08 < aokfire> there's also .txt and .mp3
01:08 < aokfire> it's basically thousands of recordings, and there's specific ones that need removed
01:08 < koala_man> aokfire: [..] is a glob character range
01:09 < koala_man> [OK].*  does not match [OK].avi
01:09 < aokfire> so replace .* with [..] in the file of filenames?
01:09 < aokfire> oh
01:09 < aokfire> so the []'s are messing it up
01:09 < rcowie> IHateMyIsp yeah (guilty look) - Am now nuking the install and reinstaling fresh as a lesson to myself :D
01:09 < bls> escape the glob atoms
01:09 < aokfire> so .*\ ?
01:09 < aokfire> sorry
01:10 < aokfire> or '[OK]' or [OK]\ ?
01:10 < koala_man> aokfire: none of that will work because you have globs in a file
01:10 < bls> [, ], {, }, *, \, and ? will all need to be escaped
01:10 < searedvandal> [OK\]
01:10 < z3t0> hi, yesterday I was here trying to ask about a crash on my system that I cannot seem to debug
01:11 < z3t0> It just happened again and again it seems that journalctl's logs stop a few minutes before the crash
01:11 < z3t0> Where else might I look?
01:11 < aokfire> bls so [OK\] [qwertyuiop\].*\
01:11 < bls> no, escapes go in front of the character they're preventing from being treated as a glob
01:12 < searedvandal> bls, instead of escaping all of those, won't it work with slapping some " " around the file name?
01:12 < aokfire> I could macro that
01:12 < IHateMyIsp> z3t0: df -h
01:12 < aokfire> bls \[OK\] \[qwertyuiop\].\* ?
01:13 < aokfire> or would what searedvandal said work
01:13 < phogg> just enclose the entire file name in single quotes, e.g.: '2197431 - RECORDINGA19384 - [OK] [qwertyuiop]'.*
01:13 < z3t0> IHateMyIsp, what should I be looking for in df -h ?
01:13 < koala_man> you would have to rewrite your rm command
01:13 < bls> no, he wants to expand some of the glob characters but not others
01:13 < IHateMyIsp> z3t0: full disk
01:13 < z3t0> ah okay one moment
01:14 < phogg> bls: those characters could be left unquoted
01:14 < aokfire> now im confused on which is the best option...
01:14 < bls> right, so he'd need to "beginning of file [foobar]"*"[more] stuf".*
01:14 < phogg> bls: yeah
01:14 < kazdax> i found weechat on yum search
01:15 < kazdax> now when i do yum install weechat it dosnt work
01:15 < phogg> it's much less error prone to quote everything then unquote what you don't need
01:15 < aokfire> so
01:15 < z3t0> IHateMyIsp, i have over 70% free disk space so I don't think thats the issue
01:15 < searedvandal> isn't it only .* that wants to be expanded?
01:15 < aokfire> yes
01:15 < z3t0> the caps lock indicator also freezes
01:15 < bls> no, he only wants * to be expanded
01:15 < aokfire> yes sorry the * at the end
01:15 < koala_man> from a list of patterns in a file
01:16 < kazdax> anyone know why it isnt working ?
01:16 < aokfire> in the directory koala_man
01:16 < aokfire> * should expand to just match anything
01:16 < searedvandal> sorry, *
01:16 < kazdax> it says package name searched is weechat.x86_64
01:16 < bls> z3t0: primary cause for such things these days are bad hardware, starting with video card
01:16 < aokfire> so .txt, .video, .mp3
01:16 < kazdax> i puit that exactly and do yum install weechat.x86_64
01:16 < bls> kazdax: searching for a package doesn't install it
01:16 < kazdax> and it says no package available
01:16 < kazdax> no i mean in the search it exists
01:16 < bls> kazdax: drop the .x86_64
01:17 < kazdax> i tried that ..ill do it again
01:17 < IHateMyIsp> also, which version of weechat did it find?
01:17 < IHateMyIsp> most distros ships horribly out of date ones
01:17 < kazdax> it dosnt say which version
01:17 < bls> yum info will get it
01:18 < koala_man> if you have a file of arbitrary prefixes, you can use   while IFS= read -r line; do rm -- "$line"*; done  < file.list   . note that a blank line deletes all files and the data shouldn't have its own *s at the end
01:18 < kazdax> 1.5
01:18 < kazdax> repo epel
01:18 < IHateMyIsp> knew it
01:18 < aokfire> koala_man I'll try that
01:18 < kazdax> i set it up to use the epel repo
01:18 < IHateMyIsp> find a newer .rpm or build it yourself
01:18 < kazdax> i think it set it anyways
01:18 < IHateMyIsp> you do NOT want to use 1.5
01:19 < kazdax> right the guy above me uses 2.1
01:19 < rcowie> Could anyone suggest a really light linux distro (ideally debian) I can run in VMware without my Macbook Pro sounding like it's going to take off? - Lubuntu seems too heavy :(  - didnt have this issue on Macbook Air
01:19  * phogg checks his weechat version, sees that it's 1.0.1
01:19 < phogg> maybe it's time to update
01:19 < bls> rcowie: debian
01:19 < searedvandal> yeah, since ideally you want debian, debian
01:19 < phogg> rcowie: Debian is as light as you want to make it.
01:19 < Neel> rcowie, void linux
01:20 < bls> rcowie: the distro isn't what's making the fans spin, it's the desktop environment you pick and how much cpu and ram you're willing to give it
01:20 < Neel> you can install what components you wanna install
01:20 < aokfire> koala_man... still doesn't work...
01:20 < Neel> plus theres no systemd, runit only
01:20 < aokfire> im losing my mind
01:20 < IHateMyIsp> you can do that with debian too
01:20 < kazdax> losing mind is a good sign of gainning mind in the future
01:20 < kazdax> a new mind
01:20 < aokfire> while IFS= read -r line; do rm -- "$line"; done < r
01:20 < aokfire> rm: cannot remove 'f1.*': No such file or directory
01:20 < kazdax> indeed
01:20 < kazdax> lets pick up the pitchfork and dance with the devil :D
01:21 < aokfire> except f1.video, f1.txt, f1.mp3 exist
01:21 < Neel> join ##ChatterZ guys
01:21 < kazdax> smily face should be ignored at all possible levels
01:21 < koala_man> aokfire: please try copy-paste instead of typing the command by hand
01:21  * IHateMyIsp would drop bash
01:21 < aokfire> I did copy past
01:21 < aokfire> paste
01:21 < aokfire> I removed the * from "$line" because it was putting two globs
01:21 < aokfire> two *'s
01:21 < aokfire> while IFS= read -r line; do rm -- "$line"*; done < r
01:21 < aokfire> rm: cannot remove 'f1.**':
01:22 < rcowie> bls thanks! - makes sense - I'll scale down what I give it (I think my host having more (than the Air) makes the default suggestion more maybe)
01:22 < koala_man> aokfire: the data shouldn't have its own *s
01:22 < aokfire> ah
01:22 < aokfire> you mean the filename in the filelist
01:23 < koala_man> yes
01:23 < aokfire> the actual files themselves do not have *
01:23 < aokfire> sorry ok
01:24 < aokfire> finally, it worked
01:28 < aokfire> koala_man it works, thank you so much
01:28 < aokfire> extremely helpful. but I can't help thinking there has to be a better way no?
01:28 < koala_man> yes. don't put globs in files
01:28 < bls> go back in time and organize things better
01:32 < aokfire> lol...
01:32 < aokfire> thanks koala_man and bls
01:33 < bls> scraping the filesystem like this on loosely organized files tends to be ugly, so you either write ugly scripts like this, or use "fuzzy search" tools and hope for no false positives/negatives
01:34 < Nawab> join ##ChatterZ guys! lets chat and be friends!
01:35 < ayecee> unsubscribe
01:35 < Nawab> oops the ops are here
01:36 < aokfire> bls any fuzzy tool suggestions?
01:36  * IHateMyIsp puts another one on his +b list
01:37 < IHateMyIsp> aokfire: would depend on the target
01:37 < aokfire> fair enough
01:37 < IHateMyIsp> see the owasp wiki
01:53 < noeatnosleep> anyone here read the Linux Journal?
01:53 < ayecee> no, you are the first
01:54 < noeatnosleep> ha
01:55 < noeatnosleep> wew
01:55 < noeatnosleep> uh
01:55 < noeatnosleep> That was a lot of joins, unless something screwing is going on with my client
01:56 < bls> most people here ignore joins/parts/quits in this channel
01:56 < noeatnosleep> Makes sense.
01:57 < IHateMyIsp> just matrix being matrix
01:57 < IHateMyIsp> one of the reasons for why I don't use it
01:58 < searedvandal> irc with joins/parts/quits would be a nightmare
01:58 < ayecee> was
02:00 < searedvandal> can't remember how it was. supressed those memories
02:01 < kurahaupo> I allow my client to show joins etc, but dimly
02:01 < lacrymology> I've got an optimus card and I've been running bumblebee for as long as I can remember, but my particular machine has some issue, anyway it's been months since my nvidia card has last been turned off
02:02 < lacrymology> I wanted to disable bumblebee and just use the nvidia card
02:02 < IHateMyIsp> you can't
02:02 < IHateMyIsp> your hardware is highly unlikely to be wired up in such way as to make that possible
02:04 < ChileanTux> ;)
02:04 < ChileanTux> Hi guys
02:07 < gar> what's the best way to remove a special character from a csv
02:08 < bls> use a python/perl library that understand the dialect of csv you're using
02:08 < IHateMyIsp> bonus point: convert to something that isn't csv
02:10 < gar> hmm
02:13 < gar> why not tr
02:15 < bls> because tr doesn't understand csv
02:17 < bls> and when most people say "special character", they usually mean something multi-byte/non-ASCII
02:19 < gar> ah
02:19 < gar> i mean %
02:19 < kurahaupo> bls: really? Most people don't even know what is or isn't ASCII
02:20 < kurahaupo> "special character" in man pages refers to ones that have special meaning for the program in question.
02:21 < kurahaupo> So for the shell those are newline, space, tab, ;?()&$*"'|`><
02:22 < kurahaupo> In a URL they are space +?&=%
02:22 < bls> maybe, it's what people I deal with call any character that's not printable ASCII
02:22 < kurahaupo> What sort of people are they?
02:23 < bls> engineers
02:30 < rypervenche> man ascii
02:40 < hehehe> would be nice to sleep not
02:40 < hehehe> do away with habit of sleeping
02:44 < Dreaman> nikolov@ubuntu-ivan:~$ uname -a
02:44 < Dreaman> Linux ubuntu-ivan 4.17.1-041701-generic #201806111730 SMP Mon Jun 11 21:32:41 UTC 2018 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
02:44 < Dreaman> nikolov@ubuntu-ivan:~$
02:44 < Dreaman> kernel not sleeping
02:45 < Dreaman> :)
02:45 < honestemu> Hi. Looking to buy a prebuilt desktop/laptop. Budget is under $1000. Most intensive thing I'll be running is Android Studio. But I'll be multitasking.(ie. Running browser, chat application, terminal, spotify, various IDE's simultaneously). What do you recommend? I'm not sure what I should prioritize for my use case. RAM? CPU?
02:46 < honestemu> From googling I've found system76 and zareason. They seem fine. But I'm not sure what specs I should be look for exactly.
02:47 < honestemu> Also, GPU's are expensive wth.
02:47 < Dreaman> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zdCdYNDpzx/   honestemu  my
02:48 < honestemu> @Dreaman How much at time of purchase? If you don't mind me asking.
02:52 < vovioheler> i have a question, is it possible to connect other phisical box to a internal virtualbox network. theres no one in virtualbox channel sorry, anyone knows?
02:52 < bls> honestemu: more of a question for ##hardware
02:52 < honestemu> @bls ty! I'll ask there.
03:03 < phinxy> Yay!  I got mousedev.ko module compiled and /dev/input/mice appears to be working with GPM!
03:04 < Sveta> Hello, phinxy. :-) Why was that needed?
03:09 < phinxy> Sveta• Text selection/clipboard in virtual console and the two programs NetSurf & scummvm relies on the same thing.
03:09 < phinxy> (when the programs are not using xorg)
03:10 < wizzi> hello, i'm installing ffmpeg ...i got a this problem " You could try using --skip-broken to work around the problem  You could try running: rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
03:10 < BenderRodriguez> exit
03:11 < Sveta> phinxy, using framebuffer?
03:11 < Sveta> wizzi, is the error message a bit longer than that?
03:11 < Sveta> hi BenderRodriguez :)
03:11 < BenderRodriguez> Sveta: hello :-)
03:11 < BenderRodriguez> Wrong terminal ;-)
03:12 < Sveta> oh that;s what you did BenderRodriguez.. sounds productive
03:12 < wizzi> Sveta, yeah there is 3 errors befor that
03:13 < Sveta> perhaps pastebin this, see link in topic
03:13 < wizzi> Sveta, how ?
03:14 < egonsen> is it the x server or the desktop manager switching to its virtual terminal after boot?
03:17 < Dreaman> wizzi  fedora or
03:17 < wizzi> CentOS
03:17 < Dreaman> rpm fusion
03:17 < Dreaman> install
03:17 < Dreaman> repo
03:17 < wizzi> i tried that but nothing :https://shinobi.video/articles/2017-08-09-how-to-install-ffmpeg-on-centos
03:19 < Dreaman> centos os fo
03:19 < Dreaman> for servers
03:19 < Dreaman> ask in channel
03:20 < Dreaman> centos
03:21 < Sveta> wizzi, visit the web page, https://paste.linux.community
03:23 < cheapie> Wow, that's a lot of syntax highlighting options.
03:25 < wizzi> Sveta: https://paste.linux.community/view/c7e853eb
03:29 < jim> wizzi so you can try installing those 4 things it mentions
03:32 < wizzi> jim: should i download their package too ?
03:52 < wizzi> i need suggestion for useful tools to learn
03:53 < ananke> wizzi: screwdriver. hammer. power drill.
03:53  * aBound enters the abyss
03:53 < aBound> Grab a couple of nails hammer away.
03:55 < jim> wizzi, right now, you can see your overall goal as getting ffmpeg working.... you've now been given four subgoals, and you could end up installing all four no problem... or, one or more of the subgoals might depend on stuff that's also not installed
03:57 < wizzi> jim, i'm trying to find solution to fix that
03:57 < cmj> ffmpeg is god's gift
03:57 < jim> just keep installing stuff it asks for
03:59 < wizzi> jim all these problems from html5 "when i wanted to enter a video on youtube"
04:00 < jim> maybe another way is to ask your system to name all the packages you need... in an order you can install them and not get errors about dependent packages
04:00 < lnnb> i almost lost my mind yesterday trying to figure out why i couldn't change sample rates using -ar with ffmpeg
04:00 < lnnb> turns out you have to put -ar in between the file names, not before or after
04:20 < cmj> it's dependent on the tool at hand and how they take args
04:29 < Evidlo> did LUGS used to be more popular in the early 2000s?
04:29 < Evidlo> LUGs
04:36 < jim> I guess some LUGs were popular and maybe some werent
04:36 < jim> but now there are makespaces and hackerspaces
04:39 < explodes> There is this file on my Desktop. XM7653. Its file location should be ~/Desktop/XM7653 but ~/Desktop is actually completely empty
04:40 < explodes> Oddly enough, XM7653 is the name of a vietnam-era ammo pouch
04:40 < explodes> I cannot stat the file, read the file, delete the file...
04:40 < explodes> This phantom ammo pouch has me worried
04:40 < explodes> Is it malware, is it some weird error?
04:41 < dgs> could be some thing put there by your DE
04:41 < dgs> can you find a matching file name using find / locate?
04:41 < jeffreylevesque> anyone use aws?
04:41 < explodes> locate comes up null, find is working.
04:42 < jeffreylevesque> do you get charged by the hours of utilization, or amount of data usage for ec2?
04:42 < explodes> p sure its both? but there should be an #aws channel
04:42 < Psi-Jack> jeffreylevesque: All of the above.
04:42 < Psi-Jack> And yeah, ##aws
04:42 < explodes> "##aws"
04:43 < dogbert2> I see IHOP at the psychiatrist office now, but I identify as a burger today, I was a pancake yesterday tho.\
04:43 < explodes> Nothing from "find ~" ... Going to try "find /"
04:45 < explodes> This will take a while
04:49 < explodes> maybe not. nothing found.
04:56 < SaEeDIRHA> hey guys , just a quick question , do you also guys suffer from high CPU usage when using NTFS partitions ? when i am copying file from one mounted NTFS partition to another , the CPU usage goes off the roof, and system becomes almost unusable
04:57 < SaEeDIRHA> anyone else have the same problem here or would know what is the solution ?
04:57 < ananke> Seifer: that's typical for ntfs-3g
04:58 < SaEeDIRHA> ananke, so is that because of the the driver ?
04:58 < SaEeDIRHA> is that normal ?
04:58 < ananke> yes
05:07 < rud0lf> "The GNOME Display Manager (GDM) is a display manager that implements all significant features required for managing attached and remote displays." .. could you push me into right direction what exactly are "displays" ?
05:07 < rud0lf> googling "x11 display" brings only how to set env variable
05:08 < lnnb> graphical displays?
05:10 < rud0lf> i mean what level of abstraction it is
05:10 < rud0lf> is it simply raster endpoint?
05:10 < lnnb> who knows, they call it a display manager but a remote session would also require input handling
05:11 < lnnb> unless it's some kind of drive in movie theater system
05:18 < Kira> In Linux, what exactly is the difference between static library and shared library?
05:19 < Kira> It just means that applications that link to static libraries need to be relinked everytime the static library is updated?
05:19 < ayecee> a static library is linked while compiling, a shared library is linked at runtime
05:20 < Kira> But otherwise, it's perfectly fine to have libraries A, B, and C, with A linking to C, B linking to C, and A also linking to B?
05:21 < ayecee> probably yes
05:23 < Kira> Hmm, then I wonder if it makes any sense for me to build a local version of Python with shared libraries.
05:23 < ayecee> probably not
05:24 < Toadisattva> I expect this is just a permissions issue: using debian 8 jessie with lxde desktop, in my desktop preferences the "show trash can on desktop" is selected and greyed out, but there is no trash can icon on the desktop, neither is it present in pcmanfm wehther I click it in the layout menu or not
05:24 < Kira> Since I'm building a local copy, I'm not sharing it with anybody else anyway.
05:24 < Kira> static is "usually" also slightly faster than dynamic?
05:24 < Kira> s/dynamic/shared/
05:24 < Kira> in terms of runtime performance.
05:24 < ayecee> this is sounding worse and worse
05:25 < Toadisattva> trash:/// give me operation not supported
05:26 < Toadisattva> can anyone point me the right direction to get my trash can back?
05:27 < noirx> hello
05:28 < noirx> how can i set time commandline, my debian 9 desktop time dont wanna chanjge
05:31 < Toadisattva> +ooh that one helpful for me as well
05:32 < Dan39> noirx: try timedatectl set-time
05:32 < Dan39> or of course the good ol' date -s
05:55 < cmj> install ntp
06:03 < Triffid_Hunter> Kira: shared libraries massively reduce disk usage in the case where dozens or hundreds of things use some given library. they also aid security since updating the shared library automatically protects anything using it against whatever issue was fixed in the update
06:04 < Triffid_Hunter> Kira: static linking makes your executables larger, but also allows things to still work if your shared library gets broken somehow
06:05 < Triffid_Hunter> Kira: Ι'm pretty sure the performance difference is negligible since the dynamic linker replaces function addresses in-memory at load time
06:06 < Triffid_Hunter> Kira: so for things like initramfs or similar very tiny systems which need to run directly from disk, static linking is preferred, but for anything with enough room to handle stuff properly, shared is preferred
06:06 < luke-jr> [04:05:22] <Triffid_Hunter> Kira: Ι'm pretty sure the performance difference is negligible since the dynamic linker replaces function addresses in-memory at load time <-- not really :/
06:07 < luke-jr> nowadays, everything is PIC
06:10 < Triffid_Hunter> luke-jr: PIC means that the linker can put the code anywhere in its virtual address space, it doesn't have to go in a specific location. That helps mitigate against buffer overflow attacks since the attacker can't know where anything is beforehand
06:12 < luke-jr> Triffid_Hunter: it also means the liner isn't replacing the jumps anymore
06:12 < luke-jr> linker*
06:19 < jeffreylevesque> does tar flags need minux sign
06:20 < jeffreylevesque> like tar zxf versus tar -zxf
06:20 < lopid> only if one of them does
06:21 < jeffreylevesque> i'm trying to clean up - https://github.com/jeff1evesque/machine-learning/blob/master/install_rancher#L71-L74
06:21 < jeffreylevesque> is `/usr/local/bin` a good place to install to
06:21 < jeffreylevesque> for linux
06:21 < jeffreylevesque> can I generalize that
06:22 < ayecee> sure
06:22 < lopid> if not $HOME/bin, sure
06:59 < EdLin> I am wondering... which technology is better, snap or flatpak?
06:59 < EdLin> I use an arch derivative, but want to add some stuff that way maybe
06:59 < [R]> its all crap
07:00 < EdLin> what's another good way to add propetary binaries without messing up your system?
07:00 < [R]> huh?
07:00 < EdLin> like Steam for example
07:00 < [R]> install a pacakge?
07:01 < [R]> there should be a package available for any sane dist
07:01 < EdLin> yes, but that isn't sandboxed
07:01 < [R]> what?
07:01 < EdLin> do you know what sandboxing is?
07:01 < [R]> in what context...
07:01 < EdLin> program binaries and libraries
07:01 < oiaohm> EdLin: really snap due to apparmor dependany is insanely limited on number of distributions it works on.
07:02 < [R]> so now you're adding requirements to the question?
07:02 < EdLin> why not?
07:02 < EdLin> this is IRC, sometimes we need to explain further rather than write an essay
07:02 < oiaohm> EdLin: flatpak works on more distributions and this is because of design things.
07:02 < pingfloyd> sandbox is a very broad term
07:03 < EdLin> olaohm, thanks... that's more informative.
07:03 < pingfloyd> what do you mean by sandboxed?
07:03 < oiaohm> [R]: define sane some of the problems you run into is with distribution ABI stablity polices they cannot run new versions of applications.
07:03 < swift110> hey pingfloyd
07:04 < pingfloyd> swift110: hi
07:04 < oiaohm> [R]: I have done enough attempt at cross distribution packaging over the years.  flatpak is the best so far.
07:09 < oiaohm> [R]: Have you ever done maintaining a package for a distribution that is not part of the distribution core system.   Once you have you will understand why third parties attempting to do applications for distributions are in pure hell.
07:10 < oiaohm> [R]: the number of ways distributions screw you over due to abi breakage is just insane.
07:11 < lnnb> maybe the software is too complicated if it breaks so much
07:12 < [R]> that's what she said
07:13 < oiaohm> lnnb: that is true even quite simple software when you look at the dependany tree can be quite huge with a stack of different break points.
07:14 < lnnb> complex dependencies
07:15 < oiaohm> lnnb: a basic dns lookup alone has a stack of dependancies.
07:15 < oiaohm> lnnb: let alone attempting to do something graphical.
07:16 < oiaohm> Each library in your tree of libraries you application uses is another place for ABI breakage particularly if you don't control them.
07:18 < oiaohm> I like flatpak because it could give the same runtime or atleast 90 percent the same runtime to application so prevent random library change breakage.
07:19 < oiaohm> If distributions could be hurded into providing uniform ABI something like flatpak would not be required.   But I don't see that happening any time soon.
07:23 < sauvin> oiaohm, do you prefer flatpak over snap?
07:23 < oiaohm> sauvin: its not exactly preference a lot of distributions I use snap does not work at all so was not even an option.
07:24 < sauvin> Works on mine, so I'm using flatpak this and snap that, and wondering what the pros/cons are apart from what's available.
07:25 < oiaohm> sauvin: I guess something ubuntu.   https://kamikazow.wordpress.com/2018/06/08/adoption-of-flatpak-vs-snap-2018-edition/  because you fairly much leave something ubuntu no snap or least no more current verison snap.
07:26 < oiaohm> sauvin: snap distribution support is fairly much a cliff.
07:27 < oiaohm> sauvin: also flatpak you can build on any distribution with current flatpak.   Snap fairly much mandate building on current ubuntu so when you not current ubuntu for some other reason that kind of issue as well.
07:28 < oiaohm> sauvin: I don't mind snap idea but its implementation is a true pain.
07:30 < oiaohm> sauvin: the cliff nature of snap support means its very hard to justify to boss why would be snap when flatpak is an option and it covers all the distributions everyone here uses.
07:31 < light2yellow> oiaohm: can you name a real-world example of an 'ABI breakage' that has happened? also, what do you understand under that? usually the only non-statically linked part is glibc, which is taken a lot of care of to not break anything as long as possible
07:33 < lnnb> Xorg broke my input driver recently
07:34 < sauvin> light2yellow, shared objects.
07:34 < lnnb> er wait no it was the display driver, dropped a parameter on one of the callbacks
07:35 < oiaohm> light2yellow: I don't have to give a single one because the appimage developers whent and listed a heap.   https://github.com/AppImage/AppImageKit/wiki/Desktop-Linux-Platform-Issues
07:35 < light2yellow> sauvin: I addressed that in regards to glibc. any concrete example of a project usings SOs and being broken in the repositories of a linux distro?
07:35 < oiaohm> light2yellow: most glibc breakage turns out to trace to distribution maintainer of glibc deciding to package it strangely.
07:36 < oiaohm> light2yellow: so a library part you would expect glibc to have is not there so some glibc function call fails.
07:36 < sauvin> light2yellow, do you understand what flatpak and snap are?
07:37 < light2yellow> ah, you are talking solely about these. okay then
07:37 < oiaohm> light2yellow: the reason why I use flatpaks is to avoid distribution oddities.   So one file can in fact work everywhere.
07:38 < oiaohm> light2yellow: reality is you cannot trust even distribution glibc or worse someone is running a distribution with some odd ball libc.
07:39 < oiaohm> You would think after all these years since the LSB project was attempted things would be better but they are really no better than the year 1996 on the API/ABI compadiblity front for third party applications.
07:40 < oiaohm> using the parts provided by distributions.
07:41 < oiaohm> Even steam has a bug open for distribution runtime issues with different work arounds.
07:42 < oiaohm> light2yellow: are you aware that valve steam runtime ships with its own version of glibc becuase they were unable to trust distribution provided ones.  Yes a glibc from 2014.
07:43 < light2yellow> no, I am not aware
07:43 < light2yellow> that's a user's issue anyway
07:43 < light2yellow> using native steam dependencies myself
07:44 < oiaohm> light2yellow: most people are not aware how broken it is.   This is why people see snap and flatpak then look closely crossing fingers that one of them will fix the problems.
07:45 < oiaohm> light2yellow: people like me who know how bad the problem is I am refering to.
07:45 < oiaohm> light2yellow: who have to package cross distribution.
07:45 < RahulAN> Hi All
07:45 < RahulAN> I have 3 hard drives with 3 flavours on linux (rhel, centos, ubuntu)
07:46 < [R]> EXTREME
07:46 < [R]> linux ception
07:46 < RahulAN> is it possible to boot them one by one ? automatically ?
07:46 < [R]> "one by one"?
07:46 < Sveta> hi RahulAN :) you mean one after another?
07:46 < RahulAN> Sveta: Yes
07:46 < light2yellow> oiaohm: what exaclty were your issues?
07:46 < lnnb> do you have 3 core CPU ?
07:47 < RahulAN> I want to run some test on all three flavours
07:47 < [R]> sounds like you should be using ms...
07:47 < [R]> vms*
07:47 < RahulAN> boot HDD 1 -> run test -
07:47 < Triffid_Hunter> RahulAN: you can tell grub to change the default on next boot
07:47 < RahulAN> then reboot and boot to HDD 2
07:48 < Triffid_Hunter> RahulAN: see grub-set-default command and it's associated help
07:48 < RahulAN> But grub work on multiple OS on same HDD ?
07:48 < Triffid_Hunter> RahulAN: grub does whatever you tell it to
07:48 < Elladan> Yeah that really sounds like a job for virtual machines, unless you have some very specific hardware dependencies.
07:49 < RahulAN> Triffid_Hunter: You mean grub will change the boot order in system BIOS as well ?
07:49 < Triffid_Hunter> RahulAN: uh no, it doesn't need to
07:49 < RahulAN> Elladan: I have hardware dependency :)
07:50 < Elladan> RahulAN, if you describe it in a bit more detail someone might be able to suggest a better solution than rebooting.
07:50 < RahulAN> Triffid_Hunter: Will it change the boot order ?
07:50 < Triffid_Hunter> RahulAN: you may also want to check kexec
07:50 < light2yellow> I am just curious, since I am always on a rolling release, and have never had neither issues packaging developed applications (by writing distro-specific scripts, obviously: pkgbuilds, ebuilds, specs), nor issues with someone else's application, whether it was 'packaged' (that is, had a distro-specific script), or just manually makeinstalled
07:51 < Triffid_Hunter> RahulAN: like I already said, grub-set-default changes which menu item grub will default to next boot
07:51 < Elladan> RahulAN, grub on disk 1 can boot off any partition on any of the disks, if configured to do that.
07:51 < Triffid_Hunter> RahulAN: so make sure it has all your distros, then the first one does grub-set-default 2 && reboot, the second one does grub-set-default 3 && reboot and the third one does grub-set-default 1 && reboot
07:51 < Triffid_Hunter> now you have a bootloop that cycles through all of hem
07:52 < RahulAN> Elladan: Well, i have to test weather the driver loads successfully or not , on every checkin ..
07:53 < Sveta> RahulAN, not in a virtual machine?
07:53 < RahulAN> Elladan: you can think of in a CI infrastructure.
07:53 < RahulAN> Sveta: Not i a virtual machine.
07:54 < RahulAN> Well i do think this can even be done if i install all three OS on same Hardrive
07:54 < RahulAN> Triffid_Hunter: Then it will be easy, right?
07:55 < RahulAN> grub-set-default 2  means it will boot to disk 2 ?
07:55 < RahulAN> I will give a try
07:55 < Dagmar> There's an easier way
07:55 < Dagmar> Install grub to the MBR _and_ to the partitions the systems boot from
07:55 < Dagmar> Each one can default to booting the next
07:56 < Dagmar> Obvs it's gotta boot from the MBR, but that can readily bootstrap whatever's at the start of /dev/sda1
08:03 < pingfloyd> if there's a bootloader installed to sda1's VBR (i.e., chainload)
08:07 < Triffid_Hunter> Dagmar: that sounds incredibly more complicated than just telling grub which menu item to boot next time
08:08 < oiaohm> light2yellow: issues I have run into doing portable application is everything the appimage developer mentions and then more.   If you ship your own glibc and use a host library the host library might be expecting something that the glibc you choose does not have.
08:08 < Elladan> All these systems sound pretty flaky for RahulAN's use case to TBH, but they seem to have disconnected.
08:08 < DynV> what kernel does lubuntu-18.04-desktop-i386 have?
08:09 < oiaohm> light2yellow: when you have over 20 A4 pages  of 1 line ones on issues in 10 point font you kind of stop counting.
08:09 < [R]> the linux kernel
08:09 < DynV> I have the ISO in which folder is it located?
08:09 < pingfloyd> the scenario is flaky
08:10 < pingfloyd> to begin with
08:10 < Elladan> pingfloyd, agreed.
08:10 < pingfloyd> sounds like an XY problem really
08:11 < pingfloyd> I'm trying to understand what the point is having them load each other one by one automatically
08:11 < oiaohm> light2yellow: with flatpak I have not had anything on those 20 pages happen to me.
08:11 < Elladan> pingfloyd, using a single machine is I guess understandable if they have limited hardware, but they shouldn't be testing their driver against distros like that in the first place.
08:11 < pingfloyd> why can't you just have it multi-boot the conventional way?
08:12 < Elladan> pingfloyd, the scenario was basically that they have a computer with their special hardware device, and they're developing a driver for it which they want to use continuous build verification with.
08:12 < pingfloyd> so he want to test that driver loads okay in all three dists?
08:12 < pingfloyd> i.e., module loads without problem?
08:13 < Elladan> So I mean A) they shouldn't be testing the driver against "Red Hat and Ubuntu" they should be testing it against Linux 4.15.
08:14 < pingfloyd> if it's kernel module, yeah
08:14 < pingfloyd> should only have to worry about version(s) of kernel in that case
08:15 < Elladan> And B) If they need to test against the distros it shouldn't boot each OS in turn like that, it should have a controller machine that controls grub via a serialcon or some server remote management interface.
08:15 < pingfloyd> the mulitboot would be good for where you have to say boot up a particular dist to try to debug/fix something that happens only in one of the environments.
08:15 < Elladan> ... or maybe via PXE so the controller can burn the machine down and reinstall whenever it gets broken, which it probably will.
08:16 < pingfloyd> but in that case, you'd want to simply select which one to boot and do whatever you need to do in that environment
08:16 < pingfloyd> since it's a driver, I can see why a VM wouldn't be the way
08:16 < pingfloyd> (hardware emulation)
08:16 < Elladan> pingfloyd, ah the use case is for complete automation though. They want to take a git commit or whatever and return "good/bad" automagically.
08:17 < light2yellow> oiaohm: I see now (from appimage page)
08:17 < Elladan> Yeah. Though VMs can do PCI and USB passthrough too, so in many cases the VM would work.
08:20 < pingfloyd> yeah, passthrough may work if the hardware being tested supports it
08:21 < pingfloyd> that would be more ideal
08:21 < pingfloyd> and much more convenient
08:21 < Elladan> For that use case, I think having a hardware test slave is fine
08:21 < pingfloyd> RahulS: does your cpu support vt-d?
08:21 < Elladan> But it should be built for robustness, not some jerry-rigged boot-loop thingy
08:23 < pingfloyd> I guess you could have your control script change the default boot entry for the main dist's grub.conf so that next dist you want boots next.
08:23 < Elladan> It's really annoying when you can't revert the "format hd0, oops lol sorry" patch because the build automation machines all helpfully bricked themselves testing it. :-)
08:24 < pingfloyd> is that a patch where they changed where the numbering starts?
09:27 < pxfgod> merely in tcp layer, is it possible to tell whether peer has read your message? read means "retrieving msg from tcp buffer".
09:43 < pankaj> I have installed awesome window manager. But I have also installed other objects from xfce and gnome also like xfdesktop and xfce4-panel. It works fine but how to I make them appear automatically at login without running their specific commands from terminal manually to get them start up?
09:46 < replicant_> pankaj: Im not an awesome use, but there could be a config file and probably there you can add "your auto-start programs".
09:47 < Elladan> pxfgod, no.
09:47 < replicant_> I'm an i3 user
09:49 < pxfgod> Elladan, so, what is known is how much peer has received(through ACK). how much it read is none of business of TCP???
09:49 < Elladan> pxfgod, in principle there is some information available regarding the window size and TCP ACKs, but it's not reliable and isn't normally exported to the socket user.
09:49 < Elladan> pxfgod, yes.
09:49 < pankaj> replicant_: It does not matter because I am not asking specifically about awesome. I want that the xfce4-panel and xfdesktop widgets that I downloaded automatically gets started up when I login. So, I do not have to type them manually at each startup.
09:50 < k_sze[work]> Triffid_Hunter: but even a library is shared, when two processes load the library, I still effectively get two copies of the library in memory, right?
09:51 < Elladan> pxfgod, you could in principle infer whether the reader consumed the data in the socket buffer based on the ACK, or more coarsely simple by checking whether your send side socket is accepting data.
09:52 < Elladan> pxfgod, however the socket buffer management on the remote end isn't really your business.
09:55 < searedvandal> pankaj, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/awesome#Autostart
09:56 < pankaj> searedvandal: OK
10:04 < Fiacha> Hi! I have a small embedded linux system that only has a serial port (no display). It is a barebone version of debian arm7. I want to copy files to the system. It does have base64 and guzip. So I tried to make a small script to gzip and then base64 encode and then write to the serial console. Unfortunately, sometimes it does not work well (hangs and does not terminate). Is there a better way?
10:09 < Copenhagen_Bram> hello
10:10 < Elladan> Fiacha, try zmodem or something of that nature.
10:10 < pxfgod> Elladan, well, at least the read operation which affect ACKs to some extent informs you how much peer read. right? if no read, there're no more ACKs.
10:10 < Fiacha> I read https://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Remote-Serial-Console-HOWTO/upload.html. I don't have rz/rx/ry. It is not easily possible to compile something (i would need to setup cross compile for arm with custom TI kernel etc)
10:11 < Copenhagen_Bram> so i just learned about the oom killer, but is there an ooc (out of cpu) killer?
10:11 < nothos> Copenhagen_Bram not really, there are ulimits though
10:11 < nothos> Which define how much CPU a process can use
10:12 < nothos> Though there are userland tools for process killing based on CPU usage (LFD for example)
10:12 < Elladan> You can also use cgroups to limit a process to a certain amount of CPU at a time.
10:12 < Fiacha> Elladan: There is no zmodem or similar and i can't easily add it (no local compiler and if even if i get something to cross compile properly i would still need to get it on the system ;)
10:13  * Copenhagen_Bram looks into lfd
10:13 < Copenhagen_Bram> no guix package for it hmm
10:13 < Elladan> Fiacha, without adding better tools I'm not sure there's a lot you can do. It sounds from your description like your serial connection is unstable.
10:13 < nothos> Copenhagen_Bram https://configserver.com/cp/csf.html It's part of CSF
10:14 < Elladan> Fiacha, have you investigated different baud rates and/or flow control settings?
10:14 < nothos> There's probably better tools but just throwing one I know of out there :)
10:14 < akd> I am trying to do that in bash :
10:14 < akd>   if [[ "${CI_COMMIT_REF_NAME}" != "$(node -p "require('./package.json').release.branch")" && "${CI_JOB_STAGE}" != "declination" ]]; then
10:14 < akd>     echo "========================================UNSETTING KEYS========================================"
10:14 < akd>     unset GL_TOKEN
10:14 < akd>     unset GITLAB_TOKEN
10:14 < akd>   fi
10:14 < akd> It does not work
10:14 < nothos> akd Pastebin
10:14 < akd> because when ${CI_JOB_STAGE}=declination
10:14 < Elladan> Fiacha, also if you have python (or perl etc.) on the system you might be able to install software written in that language.
10:14 < nothos> Don't just dump multilines in IRC plz :)
10:14 < akd> it goes and UNSET keys
10:14 < Fiacha> Elladan: yes, might be. I tried to enable flow control and handshake etc and it helped. I thought maybe there is a better standard way and I just don't know it, so i thought might as well ask here :)
10:14 < akd> sorry
10:15 < Elladan> Fiacha, I think zmodem (or one of the fancier ones, or ppp if you want to get crazy now) is pretty much the standard way.
10:15 < nothos> akd Sounds like something with gitlab triggering before your CI script
10:15 < nothos> Probably best to ask in #gitlab
10:16 < akd> ?
10:16 < akd> That make no sens nothos
10:16 < Copenhagen_Bram> nothos: login failure demon? doesn't sound like it kills processes based on cpu
10:16 < akd> it's a bash question, not a gitlab question
10:16 < Elladan> Fiacha, if you wanted to set up ppp you could in principle get it to talk tcp/ip, but it would be a lot of hassle and might require kernel modules you don't have.
10:16 < Fiacha> Elladan: Thanks, i did not no about ppp, will look into it. I only need to get it on there once so maybe an unstable connections enough :) no python but perl does work. I will look to see if i can find a perl script for transfering files.
10:17 < nothos> akd You're trying to write a script that won't unset GL_TOKEN and such if CI_JOB_STAGE != declination
10:17 < Triffid_Hunter> k_sze[work]: nope, one copy in ram
10:17 < akd> yes
10:17 < nothos> But when it is set to that it unsets them anyway, right?
10:17 < akd> yes
10:17 < Triffid_Hunter> k_sze[work]: the kernel may however map it into different virtual locations for each process that uses it
10:17 < nothos> akd Okay, so it sounds more like an issue with gitlab's behaviour than something wrong with your script
10:17 < akd> not at all
10:18 < nothos> So the #gitlab channel on this server might be able to help more specifically
10:18 < akd> it's a bash question, not a gitlab question
10:19 < akd> nothos, I dont see how a bash script can change from an host to another
10:19 < akd> no matter bash or what
10:20 < nothos> akd Because you're using it to work with a third party tool that can be configured all sorts of different ways across hosts, so it's entirely possible that it works on one host but not another because of little differences
10:20 < nothos> Been there, done that, tore my hair out, etc.
10:20 < Elladan> Fiacha, ppp is how people got on the internet back in the modem days. :-)
10:20 < CrazyTux> is Cinnamon a resource heavy desktop?
10:21 < Elladan> Fiacha, however I think dumping base64 text ought to work. If it freezes I think it would freeze with any transfer method.
10:21 < nothos> CrazyTux I wouldn't say it has a huge footprint
10:21 < nothos> But it's definitely more resource intensive than XFCE for example
10:21 < CrazyTux> Cinnamon vis-a-vis Kubuntu, Ubuntu Mate?
10:21 < monotux> CrazyTux, it all depends on how you configure it, and any other DE
10:21 < Elladan> CrazyTux, yes in that it uses the GPU a lot.
10:21 < CrazyTux> ok
10:22 < nothos> Well, from my point of view if you have a choice between KDE or literally anything else
10:22 < nothos> Go with literally anything else :D
10:22 < Elladan> You don't need a powerful graphics card or anything, but you do need stable 3d drivers and all that to use Cinnamon.
10:22 < CrazyTux> I have seen the reviews of Kubuntu 18.04. They say Kubuntu is not that resource hungry.
10:23 < Elladan> CrazyTux, of those 3, Mate will be the least intensive.
10:23 < CrazyTux> Elladan, ok
10:23 < nothos> CrazyTux Relative to older KDEs I think generally
10:23 < dgurney> indeed, KDE is surprisingly light now (considering how heavy it used to be)
10:23 < CrazyTux> Elladan, which distro is more well integrated with Mate?
10:23 < nothos> If you want light I'd always recommend XFCE, which strikes the right balance between resource usage and functionality
10:24 < CrazyTux> nothos, ok. Which distro with Xfce then?
10:24 < Elladan> CrazyTux, I don't know. I'm sure Ubuntu or Mint are both acceptable.
10:24 < Fiacha> Elladan: Yes, i maybe try to split up larger files into several smaller ones, check each with md5 and retry if failed and then combine again. I think the problem is that one EOF (CTRL+D / 0x04) is sometimes not enough when there is an error and base64/gunzip can't fully decode. Problem with multiple CTRL+D is that i get logged out ;-)
10:24 < nothos> CrazyTux Well if you're looking at ubuntu, then xubuntu
10:24 < MrElendig> the de makes very little difference unless you are on a potatoe
10:25 < Elladan> MrElendig, the biggest issue with the de is whether it required 3d accel, I'd say.
10:25 < hendrix> potatoes, powered by linux
10:25 < CrazyTux> since Mint is based largely on Ubuntu what is the point in creating another version of Mint with Mate? There is Ubuntu Mate. Isn't it?
10:25 < MrElendig> again, only matters if you are on a potatoe, like eg some sbc with unsupported gfx
10:25 < MrElendig> *coughALWINNERcough*
10:26 < Armand> Allweiner
10:26 < pingfloyd> you're an allweiner
10:26 < nothos> CrazyTux Unless I'm wrong (It's been a while), I think Mint + Mate were started as projects to carry on GNOME2-like functionality on the ubuntu core
10:27 < CrazyTux> nothos, ok. I didn't know that.
10:27 < Armand> pingfloyd: You love the allweiner!
10:27 < Armand> ^_^
10:27 < MrElendig> can install mate on any distro, won't really be any difference
10:27 < nothos> Plus it's linux, folks love making arbitrary distros solely because they don't like package Y of Distro X and want package Z
10:27 < Elladan> Fiacha, is "screen" installed?
10:27 < pingfloyd> is that the German version of a sausagefest?
10:27 < Armand> lol
10:27 < Armand> I guess... ?!?
10:27 < pingfloyd> ##linux is allweiner
10:27 < CrazyTux> I really like this app KDE Connect.
10:28 < repys> what is used for discard in fstab?
10:28 < Fiacha> Elladan: no, unfortunately not
10:28 < Elladan> Fiacha, a pity. Among other things it includes zmodem and serial support :-(
10:28 < MrElendig> repys: wikipedia has an article on it
10:28 < CrazyTux> but, because of some reason I am not able to use it fully on Xfce.
10:28 < searedvandal> CrazyTux, ubuntu mate is probably gonna give you the best mate experience out of the box, since ubuntu mate and mate desktop projects goes pretty much hand in hand
10:29 < MrElendig> repys: the man page also tells you what it does
10:29 < CrazyTux> searedvandal, ok
10:29 < bullgard4> [Debian stable i386 Xfce 4.12.3] Thunar lists the owner of all files in ~ as "abc(xyz)". abc != xyz . '~$ cut  -d: f1 /etc/passwd' lists only xyz and not abc. '~$ find / -name 'abc' 2>/dev/null' does not produce any output. '~$ whoami' outputs: "xyz". What does the format "abc(xyz)" designate?
10:29 < Elladan> Fiacha, anyway, your serial connection really shouldn't be so unreliable with simple base64 dumping. I'd do some more experiments with flow control and baud rate etc., maybe you can get it to not stall or corrupt data.
10:29 < CrazyTux> which is the best xfce based distro for a linux newbie?
10:30 < morf> CrazyTux: probably xubuntu
10:30 < nothos> CrazyTux I'd still say xubuntu tbh
10:30 < morf> yeah
10:30 < nothos> It's all integrated well
10:30 < MrElendig> use getent to look for things in passwd
10:30 < mophed> ^^
10:30 < nothos> And has some niceties added that aren't in upstream
10:30 < Elladan> Ubuntu will have the most accessible google results when you have questions.
10:30 < MrElendig> specially since getent knows about things like ldap
10:30 < CrazyTux> nothos, have you used MX Linux?
10:30 < Elladan> ... regardless of any technical opinions people might have.
10:30 < morf> nobody did
10:30 < morf> :)
10:30 < nothos> tbh, there's been a few times where I've had trouble finding results for an issue in google until I swapped "linux" with "ubuntu"
10:31 < nothos> And that's just sad :(
10:31 < nothos> CrazyTux Nope
10:31 < CrazyTux> ok
10:31 < nothos> CrazyTux Something special about it?
10:32 < Elladan> Probably #2 on google results these days is Arch honestly. They have a really nice wiki. Of course their wiki also answers a lot of questions with other distros too.
10:32 < nothos> Elladan very high signal-noise ratio on there though
10:32 < MrElendig> arch wiki sucks, it is just that most other distroes has even worse/no docs
10:33 < Elladan> nothos, you mean it's all signal? :-D
10:33 < mophed> i just finished installing arch on a 2006 macbook pro. i thought the wiki was great
10:33 < nothos> (The noise being the weird nonsense that you only have to do on arch because people favour weird elitism over a working system, but that's just me)
10:33 < CrazyTux> nothos, https://www.linux.com/learn/intro-to-linux/2018/4/mx-linux-mid-weight-distro-focused-simplicity
10:33 < CrazyTux> https://www.cmscritic.com/mx-linux-17-review/
10:34 < CrazyTux> https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/mx-17-lenovo.html
10:34 < Elladan> I mean I agree Arch wiki has a lot of random voodoo answers and magic incantations and so forth actually, but it's still a good source of info.
10:34 < nothos> 'fast, lightweight and easy to install systemd-free' because of course it is
10:34 < nothos> See again the not wanting feature Y so making a new distro
10:35 < MrElendig> feel free to update the wiki
10:35 < CrazyTux> ok
10:35 < mophed> i like debian. nice and stable
10:35 < nothos> mophed If you don't mind your screensaver swearing at you :D
10:35 < pingfloyd> not wanting systemd is a pretty good for making a new dist
10:35 < pingfloyd> since systemd is so damn integrated
10:35 < MrElendig> adverticing it is silly imo
10:35 < CrazyTux> mophed, then you will love MX linux.
10:36 < pingfloyd> *pretty good reason
10:36 < mophed> is that mexican linux ;)
10:36 < searedvandal> do you run MX Linux CrazyTux ?
10:36 < mophed> ill be honest. i dont like trying new distros
10:36 < CrazyTux> searedvandal, yes.
10:36 < mophed> arch is as wild as i get
10:36 < Armand> mophed: You should... but in a VM
10:37 < CrazyTux> mophed, https://mxlinux.org/
10:37 < nothos> pingfloyd I don't necessarily think a different init system justifies and entirely new distro, especially not the no doubt hundreds that exist
10:37 < pingfloyd> nothos: you pretty much have to make a new dist and that's systemd's fault
10:37 < searedvandal> CrazyTux, I see. if it's good, then just stick with that. no need to change distro really.
10:37 < nothos> Though I kind of like systemd as an init system so eh
10:38 < pingfloyd> it's not just an init system and that's the problem
10:38 < CrazyTux> searedvandal, ok.
10:38 < nothos> pingfloyd Yeah, I'll grant you that
10:38 < nothos> Shame uselessd stopped being dev'd
10:38 < mophed> a co-worker told me today that arch is just a host env for setting up gentoo
10:38 < pingfloyd> if it were just an init system, it would be trivial to swap out
10:38 < nai> hi, i have a web server running caddy to serve a static uploads folder (i just want to be able to drop files in that folder via scp or rsync and have them accessible on the web). i'm struggling to decide where to place that uploads folder, what owner and what permissions it should have. caddy runs as the user "http". any general advice on this?
10:38 < Elladan> systemd annoys me but I can accept that it's also doing some things for me that don't annoy me because I don't notice them.
10:38 < Armand> mophed: Your co-worker is an ass
10:38 < CrazyTux> btw, is KDE buggy
10:38 < CrazyTux> ?
10:38 < CrazyTux> KDE Plasma?
10:39 < nothos> mophed arch is just a host system for pacman -Syu
10:39 < mophed> -Runs
10:39 < nothos> https://i.warosu.org/data/g/img/0600/96/1493300998749.jpg Just gonna leave this here
10:39 < pingfloyd> I'm glad to see distros popping up that are taking a systemd free approach, because right now systemd has dominated the dist market.
10:40 < mophed> isnt sysd the standard?
10:40 < dgurney> yes
10:40 < pingfloyd> you mean sysv?
10:40 < mophed> yeah all the sysctl jazz
10:40 < pingfloyd> it's the traditional standard, but most of the dists jumped on the systemd bandwage
10:40 < pingfloyd> bandwagon*
10:40 < mophed> why would you want to stray
10:41 < searedvandal> bandwagons are there to be jumped on
10:41 < nothos> mophed tbf, sysv did have issues that systemd tried/did fix
10:41 < pingfloyd> I'd rather hop on a wagon that's going where I want to go
10:41 < nothos> Also I'll admit this is a personal bias, but I prefer working with systemd unit files than raw bash scripts for sysv
10:41 < Elladan> sysv init was bad IMO.
10:41 < nothos> But I can see the flexibility that bash scripts have
10:42 < dgurney> unit files are great
10:42 < Elladan> However I find systemd to be weird and hard to debug.
10:42 < pingfloyd> Elladan: anything more complicated and bloated is going to be harder to debug
10:42 < nothos> On macos launchd is quite nice and apple open sourced it
10:42 < nothos> I think folks are working to bring it to BSD proper?
10:42 < searedvandal> for my general use, systemd has been nothing but good
10:42 < mophed> journald
10:43 < dgurney> I love systemd
10:43 < Elladan> I haven't had too many problems with systemd. I don't really have a strong opinion about it.
10:43 < pingfloyd> Elladan: one of the reasons the conventional and traditional thinking has been that you keep your init very simple and withing the scope of what init should be.
10:43 < Fiacha> Elladan: yes, thank you very much for you help. I will also try to see if i can get a working screen binary, maybe it's the first file I transfer then :) Have a good day and thanks again!
10:43 < Elladan> The biggest issue I've had was when it decided to angrily unmount some volumes of mine the instant I mounted them.
10:43 < lilltiger_> I have more issues with pulseaudio then systemd
10:43 < nothos> pingfloyd Now that I'll agree on, had some issues at work because of systemd juggling a lot of work and using a lot of resources
10:43 < nothos> Wouldn't happen on sysv
10:43 < pingfloyd> Elladan: rarely has problems, and when it does, they're easier to debug.  Which is even more important with such a critical component.
10:44 < Elladan> So I kept going "Wait what just happened where are my files?!" and had a really annoying time until I found whatever random thing (commenting something out in fstab I think) that made systemd shut up.
10:44 < searedvandal> Elladan, same here. don't mind systemd. could make due with sysv init as well, doesn't really matter for my use.
10:44 < MrElendig> nothos: eh, with similar functionality on the setup it probably would
10:44 < nothos> Also fun fact, if you kill -9 1 when using systemd it doesn't actually kill it
10:44 < MrElendig> nothos: or even worse
10:44 < nothos> Just flushes it's RAM
10:44 < nothos> MrElendig The problem was related to jailed processes (a lot of them)
10:45 < nothos> That systemd decided to get involved in on top of everything else it does
10:45 < nothos> So it was pegged at the top of top basically permanently
10:45 < MrElendig> depends on how you "jail" processes
10:45  * MrElendig have had a lot more issues with supervisord and upstart eating all the reasouces ever than systemd
10:45 < Elladan> I had fewer problems with sysv init, it never really did anything unexpected. OTOH it also just didn't do that much compared to systemd.
10:46 < Elladan> I mean like, just running some scripts is more expected but managing an event-driven dependency graph sort of thing is theoretically better, so I dunno.
10:47 < pingfloyd> upstart wasn't very good
10:47 < pingfloyd> but it was Canonical, so what do you expect?
10:48 < MrElendig> Elladan: you have never read the distros init scripts I see
10:48 < k_sze[work]> Triffid_Hunter: so shared libraries save both disk and RAM space.
10:48 < MrElendig> Elladan: a lot of them try to implement dependencies in sh/bash
10:48 < Elladan> I don't think systemd is really at the sweet spot of "has powerful features and also manages to not be very surprising" but it's OK enough.
10:48 < MrElendig> and it gets ugly really fast
10:49 < Elladan> MrElendig, I'm aware of this, and how much it sucks.
10:53 < Elladan> I just can't get worked up about systemd when I could be mad at NetworkManager or Pulseaudio or X or something.
10:54 < nothos> Elladan Depends on the angle I guess
10:54 < nothos> Like those techs have issues
10:54 < nothos> But at least with good intent
10:54 < nothos> From what I've gathered the systemd developers tend to be extremely hostile
10:54 < nothos> Though I guess you can only take so much of folks ragging on your stuff all the time before you get hacked off
10:54 < Elladan> Hey I hear this guy "Linus" sometimes gets testy too.
10:55 < adsc> nah, he's an angel
10:55 < dgurney> personally, if I don't like something, I simply don't use it
10:55 < Elladan> Though to be fair, Project Run by Assholes is a real problem.
10:55 < pingfloyd> seems more like the systemd developers (especially LP) act like the foss community should be made into a "safe space" for them.
10:55 < dgurney> no need to post hateful or angry messages on the internet about it
10:56 < nothos> Long as our lord and saviour Richard Stallman is about all will be well
10:56 < adsc> much too pragmatic for 21st century schizoid man
10:56 < djph> dgurney: you rebel, you.  It's like you're a mostly-well-adjusted adult.
10:56 < nothos> The toe crust of Stallman, amen
10:56 < pingfloyd> Elladan: I don't know, Linux is ran by one of the biggest assholes and it is thriving.
10:56 < pingfloyd> but he's a very knowledgeable asshole
10:56 < Elladan> I mean I'm not going to go contribute to a project where the leaders scream abuse at me in a torrent of dunning-kruger rage if I have any other option.
10:57 < pingfloyd> I bet Linus would take it as a complement if you called him a "knowledgeable asshole".
10:57 < Elladan> Linus isn't bad. I mean he usually has harsh technical criticisms.
10:57 < nothos> Turns out if you take the sort of people who spend more time buried in computer science than human beings and then have them work together you get friction
10:58 < Armand> Elladan: Torvalds, or TechTips ?
10:58 < djph> nothos: wait, doesn't linus have a wife and kids?
10:58 < buoyantair> Hey guys, how do I pass commands to an sftp shell once I launch it?
10:58 < djph> *Linus
10:58 < nothos> djph Yeah, it's more just a stereotype of open source devs
10:58 < buoyantair> like I want to do connect to a server via sftp and then I want to do some stuff, but I want to do all of this inside a bash script...
10:58 < pingfloyd> nothos: what about Brian Kernighan?
10:58 < adsc> are you implying that assholes don't get wives and kids?
10:59 < adsc> because if you are, you know nothing about life
10:59 < Armand> adsc: I'm qualified to refute that...
10:59 < nothos> (Though I'm aware that the largest contributors to the kernel are MS, IBM and Redhat employees rather than the good old fashioned basement dwellers)
10:59 < djph> buoyantair: expect.
10:59 < pingfloyd> nothos: he seems like he has good social skills
10:59 < buoyantair> djph: What do you mean
10:59 < nothos> pingfloyd Torvalds?
10:59 < djph> nothos: just because they have a job doesn't mean they aren't basement dwellers; especially in this age of "virtual positions"
11:00 < djph> buoyantair: you use the "expect" programming language.
11:00 < pingfloyd> nothos: he's actually pretty witty and makes you chuckle a lot.  No, Brian Kernighan.
11:00 < nothos> djph Yeah, I know, but you know what I mean, there is that stereotype of people who are involved in open source being just bad at humaning, etc. etc.
11:00 < morf> https://www.preining.info/blog/2018/06/microsofts-failed-attempt-on-debian-packaging/
11:00 < nothos> I quite like Torvalds
11:00 < nothos> He's a massive arse
11:00 < nothos> But he tends to be right about the things he rants about
11:00 < morf> yeah i was just reading something from him the other day :)
11:01 < djph> nothos: Yeah, I know :)
11:01 < nothos> Unlike stallman who is just insane and yeah, lets not go there :D
11:01 < djph> nothos: just trying to have a bit of fun
11:01 < nothos> djph I know, all in good spirit :)
11:01 < djph> nothos: RMS may be insane; but the FSF / GNU has done some good as well.
11:01 < pingfloyd> Stallman helped keep unix alive
11:01 < dgurney> plus torvalds doesn't target his rants at newbies who simply don't know better
11:02 < MrElendig> nothos: you would not be using linux today if not for rms
11:02 < searedvandal> good point dgurney
11:02 < MrElendig> dgurney: except when he does
11:02 < djph> dgurney: well, he did have a rant at one of the systemd devs -- close enough, I think.
11:02 < MrElendig> dgurney: he have driven away a lot of new contributors
11:02 < dgurney> djph, heh
11:02 < MrElendig> has*
11:03 < pingfloyd> RMS won't drive you away unless you use a non-free license
11:04 < pingfloyd> otherwise he would encourage you to develop your program further.
11:04 < pingfloyd> and his
11:04 < adsc> i don't know why everyone hates RMS so much, he's just following through with his ideology
11:04 < Elladan> The whole tech industry is full of assholes and weirdos who make life unpleasant for other people. There's nothing unique about open source that way.
11:04 < Armand> ^ Yarp
11:04 < pingfloyd> adsc: I don't know either
11:05 < pingfloyd> adsc: actually I do
11:05 < pingfloyd> adsc: because it's human nature to get hung on superficial things
11:05 < pingfloyd> adsc: outwardly RMS is a mess
11:05 < dgurney> MrElendig, sure, but quite frankly, if you can't handle harsh criticism when it's warranted, you probably shouldn't be working on something like Linux in the first place
11:05 < searedvandal> nothing unique about the tech industry either Elladan . world is full of them regardless of industry
11:05 < Elladan> But driving away people with assholery, arrogance, etc. is a real problem everywhere.
11:05 < pingfloyd> adsc: internally he's very well thought out and organized.
11:06 < MrElendig> dgurney: that is a fallacy
11:06 < pingfloyd> most programmers really
11:06 < Triffid_Hunter> k_sze[work]: yep
11:06 < MrElendig> there is a difference between saying "this is wrong and this is what you should do instead" and calling people "ugly and stupid" and "sloth dropped on its head retarded"
11:07 < Elladan> And yeah. Not being subjected to verbal abuse is basically the most basic level of respect.
11:07 < milpool> wait, aren't most OS projects nowadays exactly the opposite? you say the word "bro" and get kicked out because you are a mysagonist?
11:07 < MrElendig> no
11:08 < milpool> k
11:09 < adsc> i haven't experienced this either
11:10 < adsc> I also wonder why people still get offended by words
11:10 < milpool> a lot of projects have crazy CoCs though
11:10 < pingfloyd> one thing you can't take away from Stallman is that he's a man of integrity.
11:10 < MrElendig> only in the heads of #whitemalegenocide people
11:10 < searedvandal> as a random user of open source software and linux all these rants amongst the devs are a source of good entertainment
11:10 < phinxy> I have a MIDI alsa output device.  Is there a way to test if its working?  Some kind of virtual keyboard.
11:10 < ellyacht> anyone know how you would add a channel to favorites /autojoin but from an android device?
11:11 < akd> I was able to use accent with my "English (US Alternative Layout", I was able to write "é" when pressing (ALT-GR + ") + e , now I am writing "'e". I want to restore my ALT-GR . I dont remember where is the kebyoard configuration. I am on Linux Debian Stretch With a Cinnamon desktop. Any Help ?
11:11 < adsc> there is probably an app for that, ellyacht
11:11 < Elladan> Linus and others' rants are funny sometimes, but they're not going to make someone feel like this is a project they want to be involved in.
11:11 < MrElendig> phinxy: a scope, an arduino, some 5€ ebay midi device
11:11 < djph> phinxy: I think you have to test connected to a MIDI device
11:11 < pingfloyd> what's CoC?
11:11 < milpool> pingfloyd: code of conduct
11:11 < adsc> code of conduct?
11:11 < Elladan> At least, when they're heaping abuse on people. If you want to rant about how 4 character tabs are evil or something, lol.
11:11 < MrElendig> pingfloyd: corruption of champions  or  code of conduct
11:12 < searedvandal> phinxy, vmpk
11:12 < ellyacht> adsc: are you being sarcastic? lol cause I in the ANDROIDIRC
11:12 < milpool> pingfloyd: "if you are a white male, you are wrong! WROOOONG!!!" ;)
11:12 < dgurney> MrElendig, I believe in a healthy mix of both. I've found that being insulted (and being provided suggestions at the same time) by someone who I look up to actually motivates me to do my absolute best and to prove them wrong
11:12 < adsc> ellyacht: not at all...it's apps all the way down
11:12 < MrElendig> most CoCs just lists things that should be common sense
11:12 < searedvandal> phinxy, wait, nevermind, output turned into input in my head when I read your question
11:12 < ellyacht> adsc: legit still can't figure it out tho
11:13 < MrElendig> but sadly isn't
11:13 < nothos> djph MrElendig Oh yeah, unix and computing in general these days owes a lot to stallman
11:13 < Elladan> I've literally never seen a code of conduct for anything ever that didn't basically amount to "don't be a jerk and treat people with basic obvious respect"
11:13 < nothos> But his undeniably mad as a march hare
11:13 < adsc> ellyacht: maybe there is an app that helps you figure it out
11:13 < milpool> MrElendig: a lot of them list "the 'victim' is always right" aswell.
11:13 < notmike> hodl
11:13 < milpool> Elladan: freebsd!?
11:13 < djph> Elladan: you've not run across projects / websites / etc. run by crazies.
11:13 < adsc> nothos: what makes you say this?
11:14 < djph> nothos: "mad as march"?  interesting turn of phrase, that.
11:14 < pingfloyd> isn't CoC more of a google thing?
11:14 < nothos> djph Mad as a March hare :D
11:14 < Elladan> djph, I'm sure the internet contains some crazy stuff in some dark corner, yes
11:14 < djph> nothos: must be a ... whereever you're from ... thing
11:15 < djph> Elladan: hell, some of it's right out in the open
11:15 < nothos> djph Old timey english saying, picked it up when I was a kid :D
11:15 < djph> nothos: ah.  "Mad as a hatter" is my goto :)
11:15 < konsolebox> Elladan: i see you haven't tried OpenRC
11:16 < nothos> adsc Well, for example: Eating his own toe gunge on stage in public, His own Christmas holiday thing, those really, really weird opinions he has on age of consent and such
11:16 < Elladan> milpool, just looked at the freebsd code of conduct. There isn't a single thing there which is in any way crazy or unusual.
11:16 < Dagmar> You'd be astonished at some of the basic expectations for civilized behaviour that people will ask to be added into a CoC
11:17 < nothos> Also fun fact he's never installed Linux himself
11:17 < milpool> Elladan: you don't find the "no hugs" policy crazy?
11:17 < ellyacht> nothos: In more than 25 states its legal to marry a 13yr old sadly
11:17 < adsc> nothos: what does that have to do with his technical ideology?
11:17 < nothos> adsc Nothing, I have no qualms with his technical chops, and have great respect for the work he's done for free software
11:17 < nothos> But he is undeniably crazy
11:18 < adsc> whatever that means
11:19 < nothos> In some ways I admire the fact that he give so little of a damn
11:19 < MrElendig> milpool: pretty much no one have "no hugs"
11:19 < Trieste> Hi, I've got a problem with ntp(d), I have it installed, enabled and configured, but it takes quite long after the system boot to actually sync; in the meantime apps that are time-dependent start and wreak all sorts of havoc - I haven't checked rigorously, but I think it takes a few hours at least? Can I ensure that the sync happens right after boot?
11:19 < MrElendig> milpool: and you have to consider *WHY* a "no hugs" is required in the first place
11:19 < MrElendig> required/suggested
11:19 < Elladan> milpool, "don't do this thing which makes many people unconfortable without consent or after being asked to stop" is not crazy
11:20 < Triffid_Hunter> Trieste: that's what ntp-client is for, or fix your RTC :P
11:21 < Triffid_Hunter> Trieste: you can also pass -g, -x, -G options to ntpd when it starts
11:21 < MrElendig> and the no hugs is not a ban on hugs, it is "don't go hugging people you have never met before the second you first meet them"
11:21 < Dagmar> Trieste: You *can* force ntpd to update the clock immediately if you do it _early_ in the boot process, before starting everything else up
11:21 < Dagmar> This is however, inadvisable
11:21 < Dagmar> Sudden apparent jumps in time play hob with lots of things.
11:21 < milpool> MrElendig: it is not about actually hugging someone. it is about _writing_ the characters *hug*
11:22 < milpool> MrElendig: and trust me, this IS crazy. ;)
11:22 < Dagmar> In normal operation, ntpd is expected to only repeatedly _nudge_ the system time in the right direction until it gets there
11:22 < Triffid_Hunter> Trieste: the best option is to have a working RTC thouigh, so your clock is pretty close to begin with
11:22 < Elladan> I mean you don't go around randomly hugging strangers in real life if you don't have some reason to think they want a hug, and you certainly don't do it if they tell you to stop. How is this hard?
11:22 < Trieste> Triffid_Hunter, no rtc at that machine :/
11:22 < Dagmar> If your clock is *wildly* off each boot and it is actually supposed to have an RTC, replace the battery or just fix your install
11:22 < MrElendig> Elladan: unless you are french
11:22 < MrElendig> :p
11:23 < Dagmar> Elladan: It's not hard, it's basic "behaving in public" skills, but that's not what the dictums are about
11:24 < adsc> Elladan: depends on the culture...there might be a culture where hugging everyone is normal
11:25 < milpool> folks... it's NOT about physical contact. they outlawed "virtual hugs". like typing out *hug*
11:25 < adsc> so?
11:25  * djph hugs milpool 
11:25 < nothos> adsc So I'm an English person who moved to a place where hugging people is very much normal (It isn't in England), but even then I don't think most folks would consider hugging someone randomly without permission acceptable
11:25 < Elladan> adsc, and they'll teach you in any basic business communications type class that you have to understand your counterparty's culture and respect it. So if they don't like hugs, don't act like it's normal for them.
11:25 < Dagmar> It's about that group of people who feel it's their solemn duty to tell everyone else how they should behave, unfortunately
11:25  * milpool cries in a corner ;)
11:25 < phinxy> searedvandal• thanks, a virtual ncurse syth or piano is what I wanted
11:26  * djph is now an evil triggering bastard ... or whatever their labeling makes me
11:26 < adsc> Elladan: if they don't like it, they can tell you, and you can stop
11:26 < Elladan> I mean, this is the sort of thing they teach people in like, "How to go to a business meeting 101" with dumb videos about how Germans are always early and stuff.
11:26 < phinxy> Unless there is some other way to send MIDI to a MIDI device
11:26 < nothos> adsc Unfortunately that doesn't always work
11:26 < MrElendig> phinxy: virtual won't show you if it really works though
11:26 < adsc> yeah, because humans are needlessly complicated
11:27 < nothos> I've seen people complain about unwanted physical contact and the general response being "well it didn't have bad intent, etc. etc." completely ignoring someone's desire to not get unwanted physical attention from folks
11:27 < Dagmar> ..and some humans want everyone else to know how complicated they think they are.
11:27 < MrElendig> phinxy: since once you involve hardware you get to experience all the fun timing issues etc that you never get with emulation
11:27 < nothos> Like Dagmar said, people are complicated
11:27 < klotz> I see how sending virtual hugs to a complete stranger has a degree of weirdness to it
11:27 < MrElendig> easy fix: just stay away from people
11:27 < MrElendig> they all suck anyway!
11:28 < pingfloyd> they're not that complicated
11:28 < nothos> MrElendig And now we're back to the OSS basement dweller stereotype :D
11:28 < bipul> Oh don't cry milpool
11:28 < klotz> Then again i think you have a very thin hide indeed if you get offended by something like that
11:28  * Dagmar hands klotz a kewpie doll
11:29 < Elladan> Also note that the FreeBSD code of conduct thing didn't actually say people can't send virtual hugs to each other, it just said you had to have the person's consent.
11:29  * klotz calls his lawyer
11:29 < Dagmar> It was still the result of insanity run amok
11:29 < Blinky_> Morning all, I know that this is not an apache room but thought someone might have knowledge in the area so I thought I would ask.  Could someone please have a look at my htaccess file and tell me why is won't work.  It is not picking up the localhost when the site is run locally. -
11:29 < Blinky_> https://paste.linux.community/view/9c44a8be
11:30 < MrElendig> nothos: not really, people in "real life" suck just as much/more :p
11:30 < nothos> I'm honestly not sure on all the drama on it. It all seems pretty reasonable in terms of "Don't be a dick to people" albeit in slightly more verbose terms because #people
11:30 < MrElendig> nothos: I prefer to avoid them in pretty much all cases :p
11:30 < klotz> Elladan: this sounds fine in theory but can you imagine asking someone for permission first before sending him a gif or emoji?
11:30 < nothos> MrElendig Does IRC count in that? :D
11:30 < nothos> Blinky_ Why not use setenvif?
11:31 < pingfloyd> klotz: it's just an indicator of how weak the average human has become.  That they want to make an issue out of a virtual hug.
11:31 < Elladan> klotz, uh, yes?
11:31 < adsc> i don't think the "average human" makes an issue out of a virtual hug
11:31 < djph> in my (limited) experience, the "virtual hugs" thing tended to be in places that focused on building a sense of community -- the internet equivalent of a community group for ... whatever ... -- sure they were "strangers" in the sense that neither party met each other ... but if someone had something happen (e.g. breakup) that warranted it, their virtual friends gave them a virtual hug ...
11:31 < pingfloyd> they've been living too sheltered lives when they generate so much drama over something like that.
11:32 < nothos> I think it's similar to when you see folks doing that weird glomp thing
11:32 < nothos> It might be virtual but I can see it as unsettling
11:32 < milpool> pingfloyd: in "real life", nobody would even care.
11:32 < klotz> Elladan: so when was the last time you asked one of your friends for consent before sending him a link to a meme?
11:32 < klotz> Clearly there has to be regulation there as well
11:32 < milpool> i work in IT since the late 90s, in different companies, multi cultural as can be.. and there was never any actual drama or conflict
11:33 < nothos> Plus I don't think there's as big a barrier separating people in real life versus online. It's still very possible for someone to be uncomfortable because of unwanted attention regardless of if being online only
11:33 < Elladan> klotz, pretty sure I asked my girlfriend if I could send her a link like... yesterday?
11:33 < Blinky_> nothos not sure what it is so will go have a look.  Will it solve the issue of the htaccess file knowing the environment it is in (live/local)?
11:33 < milpool> real people get along pretty much.
11:34 < pingfloyd> milpool: exactly
11:34 < nothos> Blinky_ Also, assuming you're using 2.4, right? I don't think 2.2 properly supports the if/else blocks
11:34 < Dagmar> I should hope he's not using 2.2 still
11:34 < nothos> Dagmar RHEL 6 still uses 2.2
11:34 < pingfloyd> milpool: people that have to worry about real physical threats laugh at such "problems".
11:35 < klotz> Elladan: then i shall suggest a similar practice to my friends who keep sending me random memes and porn vids
11:35 < Elladan> I mean, sorry for the derail everyone, given that we're talking about FreeBSD in ##linux now or whatever. But seriously, I wouldn't send hugs or hearts or whatever to some random person at work who I didn't know, I don't see how some internet software project list is different.
11:35 < klotz> Clearly i can't handle that flood
11:35 < searedvandal> klotz, if you don't appreciate the random memes and porn vids, it should be acceptable to ask them to stop
11:36 < klotz> Elladan: we agree on that, i wouldn't do that either
11:36 < nothos> Elladan We forgive you *hugs* :D
11:36 < nothos> (Yeah, even just writing *hugs* feels awkward af from my point of view)
11:36 < klotz> searedvandal: maybe, but i actually don't have time to get upset about that
11:36 < pingfloyd> nothos: slow down there Weinstein!
11:37 < nothos> pingfloyd Wow...
11:37 < klotz> I have other priorities as all mature people should
11:37 < Dagmar> nothos: If you're still using it, that's your problem not mine
11:37 < pingfloyd> nothos: I was kidding
11:37 < adsc> priority 1: roll into warm blanket, priority 2: sleep
11:38 < Elladan> Also just as a side note, but any time you're reading a list of rules and it has a bunch of weirdly specific stuff like "don't send hugs without permission" well, there's basically a 7,000% chance that someone was an asshole about that specific thing once.
11:39 < searedvandal> it's most likely in there for a reason
11:39 < Dagmar> Elladan: Or that someone was an especially touchy jerk about it
11:40 < Elladan> And given that about half the rules in that FreeBSD list were about being a deliberate asshole to trans people in 15 different specific ways in a row... I think we can pretty much all envision what some incident was about.
11:41 < klotz> That's exactly the problem i see with such rules: often there was an 'incidence' but the exact circumstances of said incidence are muddled in accusations
11:41 < pingfloyd> Elladan: yeah, probably some dipshit hugged someone and then thought it would be a good idea to whip out his dick or something
11:41 < Dagmar> Nope
11:41 < Dagmar> It was actually maiiling list drama
11:41 < Dagmar> ...and fairly nonsense.
11:42 < Elladan> Yeah come on, it's FreeBSD none of these people ever meet in person *zing* *snarky rejoinder* etc.
11:43 < OnkelTem> Hi all
11:43 < nothos> pingfloyd I know, don't worry :)
11:43 < pingfloyd> nothos: too soon?
11:44 < pingfloyd> nothos: I say screw Weinstein
11:44 < nothos> pingfloyd Well weinstein definitely said screw a few other folks
11:44 < nothos> (Also too soon?)
11:44 < pingfloyd> yeah, screwing was half of the problem
11:44 < akd> I was able to use accent with my "English (US Alternative Layout", I was able to write "é" when pressing (ALT-GR + ") + e , now I am writing "'e". I want to restore my ALT-GR . I dont remember where is the kebyoard configuration. I am on Linux Debian Stretch With a Cinnamon desktop. Any Help ?
11:46 < pingfloyd> akd: no idea, I don't even have an alt-gr key
11:46 < akd> do you have a space key?
11:46 < pingfloyd> yeah
11:46 < akd> just right to your [space] key what do you have?
11:47 < pingfloyd> alt
11:47 < akd> then this is altgr
11:47 < nothos> akd Could be a ⌘ key, I know I do
11:47 < nothos> (And this is where I get ran out of the channel)
11:47 < pingfloyd> aren't those on macs?
11:48 < nothos> pingfloyd Exactly ;)
11:48 < searedvandal> akd, keyboard settings in Cinnamon can be found in system settings. or just type keyboard in the menu search field
11:48 < akd> searedvandal, yeah, I did found all
11:49 < akd> i found settings allowed by cinnamon in it
11:49 < akd> I have created a  /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-keyboard.conf
11:49 < akd> It look like : https://gist.github.com/kopax/3301500799f47cd574b0ac11db323c79
11:49 < Copenhagen_Bram> I wonder how the net neutrality repeal affects Linux distros. https://www.zdnet.com/article/welcome-back-sneaker-net-why-neutrality-repeal-will-drive-us-to-the-edge/
11:49 < akd> I have
11:49 < akd> 	Option "XkbVariant" "altgr-intl,"
11:49 < akd> should be working
11:49 < akd> was working
11:49 < akd> isn't working anymore
11:50 < pingfloyd> https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/16/iphone-bug-telugu-unicode-ios-mac-text-bomb/
11:50 < djph> Copenhagen_Bram: little to none, probably.
11:51 < djph> Copenhagen_Bram: at leat in the near-term.  Remember that "net neutrality", while it was passed, never really pushed much in the way of "major changes" (might've held things back, but ... )
11:52 < Copenhagen_Bram> djph: i hope the internet is cheap and distributed some day
11:53 < pingfloyd> welcome to the Comcrap future
11:53 < djph> it was, then we let the corporate types start running it
11:58 < searedvandal> akd, if you run "setxkbmap -model pc105 -layout us -variant altgr-intl" does it work?
12:00 < NetTerminalGene>  what is the black hoses in this picture? (summit supercomputer node) https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/SUMMIT_NODE11.png
12:01 < searedvandal> hoses for coolant?
12:02 < searedvandal> a bit OT, but that would be my guess
12:08 < bartmon> hi. i'm monitoring the disk usage (with ls and du) of some cache directory. The files are created and deleted at a high pace and the programs often stderror that some file could not be accessd and exit because of it. Is there any tool that can access the dir contents more atomically than `du -sh /path/` or `ls -l /path/`?
12:09 < djph> bartmon: I don't follow - you're deleting files that a running program needs to work?
12:12 < bartmon> djph, an app is creating and deleting those files. i want to monitor the quantity of data (so far with du and ls) but they often error out
12:15 < djph> ah
12:15 < mcdnl> bartmon: there is filesystem monitoring software
12:15 < mcdnl> inotify i think
12:17 < MrElendig> those are  indeed hoses for external cooling
12:18 < MrElendig> quite common in high density setups
12:18 < searedvandal> iostat, iotop, dtop, atop etc all monitor disk activity if that's what you're after bartmon
12:18 < bartmon> mcdnl, thats the kernels callback mechanism on file changes, right?
12:18 < mcdnl> yep
12:18 < mcdnl> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4205815/monitoring-file-and-directory-access-on-linux <-
12:19 < bartmon> searedvandal, i really just need to know the space occupied by a directory, i am not interested in the access patterns
12:19 < mcdnl> monitor written bytes then
12:20 < searedvandal> inotifywatch is probably the best thing then
12:24 < bartmon> ok, thanks mcdnl and searedvandal, i will research these tools
12:30 < pingfloyd> mcdnl: was mcdonalds taken?
13:40 < BluesKaj> Hey folks
13:40 < tx> Hey folk.
13:46 < EvilRoey> BluesKaj: hey there, good morning
13:50 < pingfloyd> hey hey hey
14:30 < BluesKaj> hey EvilRoey was afk for a bit
14:30 < BluesKaj> hey pingfloyd
14:31 < EvilRoey> BluesKaj: ayye
14:31 < EvilRoey> hi too, pingfloyd
14:46 < kbob> hello, is there a linux documentation that we can consider official?
14:47 < searedvandal> https://www.kernel.org/doc/
14:47 < searedvandal> otherwise, your distro's documentation is probably as official as you get it
14:48 < revel> Stuff in the "Documentation" directory distributed with the sources sounds pretty official.
14:48 < kbob> ok, thanks
14:55 < Lope> can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong with regards to grub. (Please read this whole paragraph before you start replying) I've tried to have 2 distros running on one computer each in it's own LVM volume where the PV is the whole of /dev/sda2 which fills the disk, one distro has full disk encryption, the other distro is unencrypted. Initially I made them share the same grub partition /dev/sda1, until I realized they each overwrote grub
14:55 < Lope> to suit themselves and then the other distro would not boot. Then I tried setting it up such that ONLY the encrypted distro would update the grub partition, so I added the unencrypted distro as a mount point /mnt/unencrypted (so that update-grub on the encrypted distro would FIND the unencrypted distro and add it to the menu automagically, which worked) and uninstalled the grub packages from the unencrypted distro and pinned them to never
14:55 < Lope> install again. That worked for a while, but recently the unencrypted distro got damaged somehow. I'm not sure if it's a problem if they both use the same kernel version or not. I realize I'm probably doing it wrong and probably I should somehow setup the system such that each distro has it's own grub. But as far as I understand grub cannot live inside an LVM volume? I want to keep each distro inside it's own LVM volume.
15:00 < Cmaj6_> hi guys
15:00 < Pentode> hi
15:01 < Cmaj6_> Just want to have your thoughts about this (and i know it may be a biased place to ask this question): how do you think about using linux in a VM as the main os? (with windows as host)
15:02 < almostdvs> Cmaj6_: it's like using linux in a vm.  what is your question
15:04 < Pentode> Cmaj6_, there are a lot of simple ways you can install linux and run it natively without having to result in something like virtual machines.
15:04 < bipul> almostdvs, He meant to say, he wants to use Linux as a virtual machine.
15:04 < Pentode> you can even run it off a thumb drive if you want
15:05 < Pentode> result/resort in/to
15:05 < almostdvs> ya, i get that.  it's not really a question.  People do it, its just a linux box in a vm on windows.
15:06 < Cmaj6_> Pentode: thing is, i'm very happy to use OSS and am an advocate of it. I like having the power to do literally *everything* to the os (although i lack such skills and have no practical, use cases in my situation to actually do such things). The thing is: i do not have time anymore to tinker and maintain an OS. I just want something stable and that doesnt get in my way, so that i can focus on work. On the other hand, i do not want to
15:07 < almostdvs> you would just have to understand what is windows responsibility and what is the VM's responsibility to handle
15:07 < Cmaj6_> btw: i've used linux for the past 8 years solely, but i simply do not have time anymore to maintain it
15:07 < Armand> "Maintain" ??
15:07 < Armand> O_o
15:07 < mgolisch> yeah i asked myself the same
15:08 < Armand> Updates on any decent OS can be automated.
15:08 < Armand> *distro, sorry.
15:08 < mgolisch> like thats harder than on windows where it doesnt even have a package manager
15:08 < Armand> Windows... Updates... HAHAHAA
15:08  * Armand dies
15:08 < mgolisch> :)
15:08 < Pentode> well i'm not sure what you mean by maintain but if this is really what you want then just go for it. whats the problem?
15:08 < almostdvs> whatever dude. Machines exist to make life easier. Do what ever enables you the best
15:08 < Cmaj6_> Armand: with all due respect, but in my experience after *each* update in my linux distro, something broke, another error popped up, etc. etc. (and believe me, i do not do exotic stuff in terminal)
15:09 < Armand> Welp.... that's a new one on me.
15:09 < almostdvs> looking for a flamewar go over to an emacs channel
15:09 < revel> Cmaj6_: Did you use Kali? :D
15:09 < Cmaj6_> on top of that, i was already using a distro that's considered stable and 'easy' (ubuntu)
15:09 < Cmaj6_> revel: ubuntu
15:09 < Armand> The only time I've seriously broken an install is when I manually installed the wrong GPU drivers.
15:09 < Armand> That's definitely user error.
15:10 < Armand> I use Mint 17 currently as my daily driver and Mint 18 at home.. NEVER had an update break stuff.
15:10 < Cmaj6_> don't  get me wrong, i really LOVE ubuntu and linux in general...but i simply don't have the time anymore to do tasks not related to my work (due to work, extra degree and family commitments)
15:10 < varshitbhat> Which is better Ubuntu or fedora
15:10 < Cmaj6_> varshitbhat: it depends on your needs
15:10 < Cmaj6_> used both
15:11 < Armand> varshitbhat: Subjective opinions have little value.
15:11 < varshitbhat> For advanced and development uses
15:11 < Armand> Subjective.
15:11 < almostdvs> completely irrelevant
15:11 < Cmaj6_> go for ubuntu if you want relatively long stability and ease of use, go for fedora if you want recent updates
15:11 < Tralfaz> LIke asking which is better, vanilla or chocolate ice cream
15:11 < almostdvs> well vanilla obviously
15:11 < Armand> Tralfaz: Easy... BOTH
15:11 < varshitbhat> 😂
15:11 < Armand> :D
15:11 < Tralfaz> yep
15:11 < almostdvs> its so good its in chocolate ice cream
15:11 < Armand> lol
15:12 < almostdvs> and choco ice cream sucks without vanilla
15:12 < Cmaj6_> f*ck i love linux man!
15:12 < Tralfaz> vanilla with choclate syrup
15:12 < varshitbhat> Hey,did you installed Anbox in Ubuntu 18.4
15:12 < Armand> Cmaj6_: Regarding stability... I'd definitely push Mint all day long, every day.... But, that's just my opinion, man.
15:13 < varshitbhat> Hey,how to join #linux ?
15:13 < varshitbhat> It says we need invitation
15:13 < almostdvs> no it doesn't
15:14 < Cmaj6_> Armand: thnx...i'll go the VM route now and will definately try different distro's, including mint! I've seen too much ubuntu the past 8years lol
15:14 < varshitbhat> 6:42 PM <varshitbhat> Hey,did you installed Anbox in Ubuntu 18.4
15:14 < varshitbhat> Please reply
15:14 < lometur> mint is build on ubuntu
15:14 < almostdvs> I stand corrected. #linux used to redirect here
15:14 < lometur> but ubuntu has offered gnome for a while
15:14 < lometur> now it's officially switched to gnome
15:14 < almostdvs> varshitbhat: who the hell are you talking to
15:14 < varshitbhat> Gnome is best than unity
15:15 < lometur> 10-4
15:15 < searedvandal> ok
15:15 < varshitbhat> almostdvs: community
15:15 < lometur> unity was the worst idea ever imo
15:15 < varshitbhat> lometur: yeah
15:16 < Armand> lometur: Thankfully, Mint doesn't use Gnome
15:16 < lometur> yeah. cinnamon is nice. it's still pretty bulky
15:16 < lometur> but better than unity
15:17 < lometur> i3 and awesome are pretty good wm though
15:17 < varshitbhat> Armand: f***k why are you loving dirty windows UI fork cinnamon
15:18 < varshitbhat> ,05Hi
15:18 < shrdlu68> Can confirm, awesome is awesome.
15:19 < lometur> yeah, i actually prefer awesome over i3
15:19 < shrdlu68> I run it without a "desktop environment".
15:19 < lometur> not that much a fan of lua, but i still liked it better
15:20 < searedvandal> varshitbhat, the beauty of freedom, people can use whatever they want.
15:21 < varshitbhat> It's true
15:21 < varshitbhat> searedvandal: but,we are fools to use malware operating system i.e MS windows
15:23 < grauzikas> Hello,
15:23 < searedvandal> hi
15:24 < grauzikas> may be some one can explain me how i can convert from (tc show or tc monitor) to tc add :)
15:25 < grauzikas> for example: https://pastebin.com/3NxeFwMm
15:25 < grauzikas> how i underdstand:
15:25 < grauzikas> tc qdisc del dev tap10000i0 root
15:26 < grauzikas> tc qdisc add dev tap10000i0 root handle 1: htb default 1000
15:28 < grauzikas> tc class add dev tap10000i0 parent 1:1 htb rate 1677mbit ceil 1677mbit burst 1Mb cburst 1258b
15:29 < grauzikas> i dont understand ingress part
15:41 < alexandre9099> hi, anyone here using gens/gs emulator? for me it is not saving games :(
15:44 < ArlequInOut> who is still using csh in current era ?
15:45 < mcdnl> not me. i use zsh
15:46 < ArlequInOut> great, i use fish personally
15:47 < Pentode> my friend keeps telling me to switch to zsh. i just hate change.
15:47 < mcdnl> powerline is pretty, shiny and usable oob
15:48 < ArlequInOut> fish has a good initial configuration and an amazing autocomplete. zsh is great but need extensive configuration :/
15:48 < searedvandal> bash is awesome too
15:49 < ArlequInOut> bash is great but the discovery of fish amaze me
15:49 < ArlequInOut> amazed*
15:50 < ArlequInOut> fish parse man page and give all the parameter with a little description directly
15:51 < ArlequInOut> +s
15:51 < milpool> umm... i just tried to write an image to an sd card with dd, and it just takes 5 seconds and returns with "4gb written", but of course it didn't actually do anything. any ideas what this might be?
15:51 < milpool> it worked like 5 minutes ago
15:52 < ArlequInOut> use sync ?
15:52 < milpool> i did
15:52 < milpool> didn't do anything
15:52 < Pentode> what did your dd command look like
15:52 < milpool> sudo dd if=image_develop_76_2b1fa72.dd of=/dev/mmcblk0 bs=4096
15:52 < milpool> 590848+0 records in
15:52 < milpool> 590848+0 records out
15:52 < milpool> 2420113408 bytes (2.4 GB, 2.3 GiB) copied, 5.95145 s, 407 MB/s
15:53 < Pentode> well the blocks are big and the speed is fast
15:53 < Pentode> must be a nice SD card
15:53 < mcdnl> class10?
15:53 < mcdnl> i think even for that it's too fast
15:53 < Pentode> lol
15:54 < milpool> yes, 400mb/s is of course not realistic
15:54 < milpool> that's why it's finished within a few seconds
15:54 < milpool> but obviously, it doesn't actually write anything
15:56 < Pentode> hmm
15:56 < milpool> maybe someghing about my card reader has crashed and can be fixed with a reboot... ;)
15:56 < Pentode> perhaps
15:57 < milpool> i'll give it a try. place your bets ;)
16:00 < milpool> it works now :/
16:00 < Pentode> interesting
16:00 < milpool> i'm so tired of rebooting being the solution to everything ;)
16:00 < Pentode> https://superuser.com/questions/730801/dd-immidiately-completes-but-actually-needs-sync
16:00 < Pentode> i did find that
16:01 < Pentode> maybe you can try some of those sync options if it happens again
16:01 < milpool> just plain sync didn't do anything for me, but yeah
16:02 < milpool> still a weird thing ;)
16:02 < Pentode> yeah it is.
16:02 < Pentode> some kind of weird bug mayb e
16:06 < cart_man> Hi all... why does this simple scripts not work? -> https://hastebin.com/roxesogafe.bash : ERROR -> The file /dev/sda1 does not exist and no size was specified.
16:09 < lucidm> So is there someway of installing grub2-efi without re-installing my entire system?
16:09 < Psi-Jack> Of course.
16:10 < EriC^^> lucidm: which distro?
16:10 < lucidm> tumbleweed
16:10 < Psi-Jack> it's just not... easy to re-size, re-align, move and create partitions..
16:10 < Psi-Jack> openSUSE, you mean.
16:10 < lucidm> yes
16:10 < Psi-Jack> tumbleweed is a "version", per-se, not a distro.
16:10 < EriC^^> lucidm: you're using legacy booting right now?
16:11 < lucidm> EriC^^: well I turned off safe boot in BIOS
16:11 < EriC^^> lucidm: pastebin 'sudo parted -l'
16:11 < Siecje> What signal is sent to processes on reboot?
16:11 < Research> Are there some articles somewhere about improving terminal drawing speeds?
16:12 < Psi-Jack> Research: wut?
16:12 < lucidm> EriC^^: from grub> ?
16:12 < EriC^^> lucidm: no from a terminal in the os
16:12 < lucidm> can't get there
16:12 < Research> I've been looking for a way to optimize terminal redrawing performance of my cli application Psi-Jack
16:12 < EriC^^> lucidm: has your system ever booted?
16:13 < lucidm> EriC^^: yes, I just did did a dup and now can't boot
16:13 < Psi-Jack> redrawing?
16:13 < Psi-Jack> Research: CLI, or TUI?
16:13 < Research> it's quite reliant on color control codes which slows down the terminal emulators I've tried by quite a bit
16:13 < EriC^^> lucidm: what dup?
16:13 < lucidm> $ zypper dup
16:14 < lucidm> I'll go into a recover terminal
16:14 < Research> I guess TUI is more accurate in this case Psi-Jack
16:14 < EriC^^> lucidm: try from grub> "normal" then "configfile /boot/grub/grub.cfg"
16:15 < Psi-Jack> ncurses?
16:15 < piglit> If I try:  " ssh xxxxxx@192.168.0.xxx sudo shutdown -P now"  the server shuts down but then wakeonlan doesnt work anymore but when I shut the server down using the X-windows the wakeon lan still works The server is using mint 17
16:15 < Research> Psi-Jack, I'm not using ncurses, I'm using a more lowe level wrapper
16:16 < lucidm> EriC^^: err I can't copy from my terminal - so I'll try your suggestion in grub > first
16:16 < Psi-Jack> There
16:16 < Psi-Jack> Research: Welp, there's your problem. :p
16:17 < Research> Psi-Jack, ncurses doesn't support truecolor
16:17 < Research> so it's not a choice
16:17 < Research> also it isn't significantly more low level
16:17 < Psi-Jack> Yes it does.
16:17 < Research> it didn't last time I checked
16:18 < Research> since colors were limited to 256
16:18 < Psi-Jack> It's supported it for a few years.
16:18 < Research> O_o
16:18 < sadasaulna> anything more than 16 colors is the work of the devil
16:18 < triceratux> woo woo todays altlinux sisyphus xfce is running the new xorg [    84.675] X.Org X Server 1.20.0 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0
16:19  * Psi-Jack yawns. 
16:19 < Psi-Jack> Arch already has 1.20.0 .:)
16:19 < Research> Psi-Jack, all I found are mailing list posts saying that it's not supported
16:19 < triceratux> yep even the swagarch liveiso has been xorg 1.20.0 for a few weeks
16:22 < triceratux> https://paste.opensuse.org/view/raw/15424545
16:22 < kurahaupo> sadasaulna: 16 bits per colour channel?
16:22 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Well, more like about a week.
16:23 < nicholasBPM> I generate my html files with python and i am thinking about changing Apache configuration to index0.html instead of index.html is there any drawbacks by doing that? (sorry for my bad English)
16:24 < sadasaulna> kurahaupo: Away fiend!  You corrupt me.
16:28 < kurahaupo> To avoid being human-centric, we should encode at least 12 channels: UV-C, UV-B, UV-A, Blue, Green, Red-1, Red-2, Infra-Red, Transparency, Gloss, Polarisation, Parallax.
16:30 < sadasaulna> see this is how it starts... next you'll be catering to Unicorns and Trigglypuffs and LGBTQi optimised colorspaces...  The devil is in you child.  Be gone.
16:30  * sadasaulna exorcizes kurahaupo 
16:31 < kurahaupo> I need more exorcize, I haven't walked far enough today.
16:31 < djph> sadasaulna: 'i' colorspaces?
16:32 < sadasaulna> alphabet soup colourspaces
16:32 < kurahaupo> djph: of course reach channel should be encoded as a complex128
16:32 < djph> sadasaulna: fair enough.
16:32 < djph> kurahaupo: that sounds about as sane as a gender studies syllabus.
16:33 < kurahaupo> djph: yes all 7 billion genders takes a while to study
16:33 < sadasaulna> My gender is a super intelligent shade of the color blue
16:35 < kurahaupo> Mine's an invisible circle with sharp corners (please be careful when handling)
16:36 < djph> kurahaupo: sever red lines, all perpendicular, with some in green ink and others in transparent ink.
16:36 < djph> *seven
16:37 < mcdnl> i guess mine looks like vantablack
16:37 < djph> ha
16:39 < lucidm> EriC^^: still get /efi/boot/fallballback.efi
16:41 < lucidm> from grub> boot asks me to load a kernel first
16:41 < BrianMiller> What issues can I expect if I change the hostname?
16:41 < djph> BrianMiller: do you use it for anything?
16:42 < BrianMiller> djph: I have cPanel/WHM/Webmail running on the server. postfix and a couple other daemons. Not sure if either have it hardcoded
16:42 < djph> you'll have to check all of those to be sure, but that's about the extent of it.
16:55 < pxfgod> Why is nice named nice? (nice - change process priority)
16:55 < mcdnl> because niceness
16:55 < mcdnl> The name "niceness" originates from the idea that a process with a higher niceness value is "nicer" to other processes in the system
16:56 < triceratux> they could have called it "uncooperative" but thats too hard to spell
16:56 < mcdnl> then it could be "dick" too
16:57 < mcdnl> dickyness
16:57 < triceratux> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_(Unix)
16:57 < pankaj> I think I have asked this question earlier also. I have just installed a window manager and also some tools from other desktop environments like xfce4-panel and xfdesktop etc. For now I have to manually start them up after each login to have the affect but I want that it automatically takes place after each login. What is the process for that?
16:58 < pxfgod> more priority is nicer??? a strange idea.
16:58 < sadasaulna> no less priority is nicer
16:59 < mcdnl> less priority is nicer
16:59 < pxfgod> I got it.
17:00 < rud0lf> at some point it serves tea and bisquits to other processes
17:00 < sadasaulna> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_biscuit
17:02 < rud0lf> sadasaulna: but.. is the font proprietary?
17:03 < kishore96> pankaj: Try putting .desktop files for them in ~/.config/autostart
17:03 < kishore96> Not sure what component actually takes care of starting those things.
17:04 < kishore96> Doesn't work without a DE, I guess.
17:05 < sadasaulna> rud0lf: whatever license it is, i'm sure its pretty nice
17:07 < kishore96> pankaj: Worst case, you could do something like this: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=99542
17:07 < pankaj> kishore96: As you know a desktop environment is built from lot of components. So, although I am using a different window manager I have combined some of the tools from other ones. So, I want that like as any desktop when it logs in it shows all the components pertaining to its class similarly all these components get started up automatically when I login.
17:07 < kishore96> I guess you could put the commands to start those things in your .xinitrc
17:08 < pankaj> kishore96: Just what you said about .desktop files. What is it. Should I put commands to start the components (like xfce4-panel and xfdesktop) in ~/.config/autostart
17:08 < searedvandal> pankaj, still on awesome wm?
17:08 < pankaj> searedvandal: Yes, I think I should take some experience. I tried to switch to i3 but awesome is still (till now may be not later) is reliable for me.
17:08 < kishore96> pankaj: Apparently you can directly put the commands to start them in a file called ~/.xinitrc
17:09 < pankaj> kishore96: ok
17:09 < Psi-Jack> kishore96: Sure, if you run "startx" to get X.
17:09 < Psi-Jack> Otherwise, it's .xsessionrc I believe, if from a display manager login.
17:10 < pankaj> kishore96: Well that does not worked either.
17:11 < kishore96> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xprofile claims it's ~/.xprofile if you're using a DM to start X.
17:11 < searedvandal> pankaj, take a look at awesome wm's awful.spawn https://awesomewm.org/apidoc/libraries/awful.spawn.html
17:11 < pankaj> searedvandal: OK. But what do you use on your system?
17:12 < searedvandal> pankaj, I use the mate desktop environment myself at the moment. how so?
17:12 < kishore96> pankaj: Apparently there's another way you can use for awesome. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Awesome#Autostart
17:13 < pankaj> searedvandal: If I am right then it was fork of gnome 2.0? Correct me if I am wrong.
17:13 < pankaj> kishore96: OK. Checking
17:13 < searedvandal> pankaj, yes, it's the continuation of gnome 2.
17:14 < searedvandal> kishore96, yeah, I linked him that wiki section yesterday.
17:14 < pankaj> searedvandal: I forgot. I know
17:14 < pankaj> searedvandal: My mistake
17:16 < pankaj> ls
17:18 < phob0s> Can I increase netlink message buffer size for kernel?
17:20 < Psi-Jack> heh, MATE is basically Gnome 2 on failing life support (because it's definitely going to die)
17:20 < preyalone> how stable is the lower-than-libc ABI in linux? will 0x80 continue to be the kernel interrupt value for 32-bit? will the write/exit operator values stay the same for quite some time? or should i link my assembler programs against libc just in case?
17:22 < ayecee> preyalone: probably easier to look at how stable it's been until now rather than try to guess at how stable it will be in the future
17:22 < Lope> I'm having problems installing the nvidia driver NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-375.26.run on my laptop with Geforce 540M. I first disabled the nouveau driver, update-initramfs, rebooted, then the nvidia install started but it failed while trying to compile kernel modules with lots of errors similar to "This driver requires the ability to change memory types!"
17:22 < Lope> This is where things started going downhill (from /var/log/nvidia-installer.log) https://hastebin.com/okokotufub.pas
17:22 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, yep.
17:23 < Lope> All I did was install a stock Ubuntu 16.04 and upgrade and dist-upgrade it, then tried to install the nvidia driver.
17:23 < searedvandal> but decided to give it a try, usually I run xfce
17:25 < nothos> Lope That's quite an old version
17:25 < nothos> Since they're currently on 390
17:25 < nothos> Any reason you're using an older one and also why you're not using the packaged ones/
17:28 < pocketmon> hello can i install sasm?
17:28 < searedvandal> 390 should support 540M and is packaged in the ubuntu repos Lope
17:28 < nothos> pocketmon I believe in you, I'm sure you can do it
17:28 < pocketmon> nothos: how?
17:29 < pankaj> kishore96: Well, I did the same thing that is said in that section but still it is not working. Instead when I login (after the setting) it gives me error 'rc.lua : Attempt to index a nil value (global 'awful'). I think it is old document (as written at the top) that is why it is not working
17:29 < nothos> pocketmon If you want actual technical assistance information on what you're trying to do (more than just "can I install") is really needed :P
17:29 < nothos> Like on what distro, etc.
17:29 < pankaj> kishore96: Is their not any single and easy way to just write a set of commands in a file that gets executed after a user logins.
17:29 < pankaj> kishore96: ?
17:31 < kishore96> pankaj: How are you starting X? Like someone mentioned, if you're using startx, you can use ~/.xinitrc, and if you're using a DM, you can use ~/.xprofile
17:33 < pankaj> kishore96: Well, Desktop environment is a big thing. I have installed a different set of tools (just a window manager 'awesome' and two other tools from xfce desktop environment 'xfdesktop' and 'xfce4-panel')
17:33 < pankaj> kishore96: I have also installed lxdm login manager which helps me to login and then I choose the window manager to get in and use it. That is how it is set. So, I do not use startx directly
17:33 < lnnb> phob0s: what do you mean, are you losing messages or just trying to reduce syscalls ?
17:34 < pankaj> kishore96: I think rebooting may do it. So, just a second
17:38 < pankaj> kishore96: No, it did not worked.
17:38 < kishore96> If you're using lxdm, you should be able to use the .xprofile file. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/xprofile
17:38 < kishore96> Just put the command for whatever program you want to start in it.
17:38 < pankaj> kishore96: OK.
17:40 < pankaj> kishore96: I put the command 'xfdesktop' but now awesome Desktop is not working. Only that tool for which I specified the command is visible
17:42 < kishore96> pankaj: Did you put an & after the command?
17:42 < pankaj> kishore96: Oh! I forgot
17:42 < pankaj> kishore96: You are absolutely right.
17:43 < pankaj> kishore96: What is the reverse of 'startx' although (because now it is stuck otherwise I have to reboot from other tty)
17:49 < searedvandal> pankaj, since you're using awesome wm, I suggest you add the programs you want to start when you start awesome in the awesome config.
17:50 < kishore96> pankaj: alt+sysrq+k
17:51 < kishore96> Sysrq would be on the same key as 'print screen'.
17:52 < kishore96> Actually, I think some distros disable the magic sysrq combinations by default.
17:52 < kishore96> The surefire way would be to go to a tty and kill x from there.
17:53 < tonsofpcs> Psi-Jack: sorry, got called away to deal with an issue right after asking.
17:53 < tonsofpcs> searedvandal: thanks, I'll check it out
17:54 < dgurney> I still don't get the point of completely disabling them by default
17:55 < jim> anyone know how stable the rt patches are these days? or how to find out?
17:55 < sparr> how can I do something like "tar -f -filenamestartingwithdash" except it's not a filename so I can't just prepend ./
17:56 < jim> sparr, you have (or want) a tar file whose name starts with -?
17:59 < sparr> it's a different command than tar, that's just a simple example
17:59 < sparr> but yes, in this example, I am trying to create or open a tar file whose name starts with -
18:00 < deww> does tar work with -- ?
18:00 < sparr> if it did, how would I use -- to accomplish this goal?
18:00 < kishore96> Apparently -- is 'end of options' for some of the gnu utils.
18:00 < sparr> yeah, I know how -- works, but I can't see how to use it here
18:01 < SuperSeriousCat> tar -f '-filename'
18:01 < jim> ok, is it because with tar you have to use -f?
18:02 < deww> this seems to have worked for me: tar -cvpf -test.tar nginx, ended up with a -test.tar file
18:03 < Psi-Jack> sparr: Makes no sense. filenamestartingwithdash, but isn't a filename? Make sense.
18:05 < jim> sparr, when you say "it's not a file name", do you mean that that string does not name an -existing- file?
18:05  * Psi-Jack waits...
18:07 < sparr> let me try again
18:08 < pankaj> kishore96: Sorry for disconnecting. I went somewhere. All is working fine now. But their was some statement you were telling about if like it is Desktop manager then configuration file must be in _____________ or if it s like ............. I do not remember that line.
18:08 < Psi-Jack> Ugh..
18:08 < Psi-Jack> After all that waiting, NOW he .. Nevermind, I'm going to lunch.
18:09 < searedvandal> pankaj, you figured out how to autostart programs in awesome wm when you start awesome?
18:09 < qrvpzvb> can I install syslinux into the VBR ?
18:10 < pankaj> searedvandal: Yes, it was .xprofile but I still do not know like if it was a desktop environment (if I was using) then in which file it would be. Can you please clear this.
18:12 < Pentode> grrr sublime text keeps deleting my comments from my damn setings file wtf
18:12 < rud0lf> bad sublime!
18:12 < Pentode> i want my 70 dollars back
18:13 < kishore96> pankaj: If you're using startx, you use .xinitrc. If you're using a display manager to start X, most of them parse .xprofile. Some (most?) desktop environments also start .desktop files placed in .config/autostart.
18:13 < Hugbox> Pentode, holy, I didn't even know it costs that much, had to go peek at their website in disbelief.  Haven't tried it, just heard things about it.
18:14 < Pentode> yeah i dont know what i was thinking. i guess i was impressed. ;p
18:14 < Hugbox> It definitely seems pretty impressive, I'll give it that
18:14 < Pentode> dont get me wrong it's a good editor
18:14 < Pentode> but i dunno. maybe $45, 50.
18:14 < illkitten> Visual Studio Code is nice. Also free.
18:14 < Hugbox> I tried to switch from Vim to Emacs a couple weeks ago, thinking I'd be a real pro in no time.  Apparently I'm not quite as clever as I thought
18:15 < Hugbox> Maybe it was just a nuance of running it in Windows at the time, but no matter what options I changed and how much googling I did, I couldn't so much as get it to indent properly lol I felt pretty stupid
18:15 < Pentode> switching from vim to emacs is like moving from london to guam
18:16 < Hugbox> When I returned to Vim though, it had never felt so good to use lol
18:16 < pankaj> kishore96: OK. I will experiment with it. Thanks for that.
18:16 < Pentode> lol
18:16 < Pentode> i dunno, emacs just has too much functionality.
18:17 < Hugbox> I just wanna know why it defaults to 2-space indents lol I was probably more frustrated than I needed to be at the time
18:18 < arora> vim is like a garage, its this open space waiting to be filled with awesome cars that user likes rather than imposing those cars on him like emacs
18:18 < Psi-Jack> But...eliza...
18:18 < Hugbox> That's a really interesting comparison, but I totally get what you're saying.  Emacs says "HERE'S EVERY MODEL OF CAR EVER" and I'm like "But... I only like _that_ kind...."
18:19 < dgurney> I use vim for quick edits (like config files), and emacs for working on more complex things
18:19 < Psi-Jack> To help you cope with the forced implements and the carpal tunnel syndrome of emacs
18:20 < Hugbox> dgurney I hear you there.  I could definitely return to emacs for the keyboard macros if I was doing some really redundant editing.  There's a few efficiency tools I haven't seen in Vim for sure
18:20 < arora> what efficiency tools do you talk about, Hugbox?
18:21 < Hugbox> There were features I was really loving, I think probably what really stumped me was the learning curve.  And actually, I think I'm really only referring to the keyboard macros arora, I'm not sure if you can do that to the same extent in Vim
18:22 < Hugbox> Or whatever they were called in emacs.  The feature where you can record a set of keystrokes and have them be repeated over whatever number of times
18:22 < arora> Hugbox, vim can record macros if you like but I am not aware in great depth about macros in emacs
18:22 < arora> Hugbox: oh that, thats there in vim too
18:23 < Hugbox> arora, crazy how long I've been using Vim to only be learning this now LOL
18:23 < arora> http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Macros
18:24 < Hugbox> In that case, I doubt there's anything I'll miss about emacs.  I'm told there's other efficiency tools too, but I haven't delved deep enough into the features to know about any others
18:24 < Hugbox> The web browser is cool, but I could never see myself using it for any practical use
18:24 < runjutsu> what's the differnece between single user and multi user mode? You can still login as multiple user in single mode
18:25 < Psi-Jack> sparr: still there?
18:25 < arora> yuck, emacs browser is so 90s, vim does one thing and is good at it
18:26 < arora> runjutsu: Are you referring to the linux runlevels?
18:26 < arora> single user cannot be logged in as root
18:27 < Psi-Jack> wut?
18:28 < pocketmon> there is a debug ide of assembly?
18:28 < arora> Psi-Jack: what happened?
18:29 < Psi-Jack> arora: You.. Making little sense.
18:29 < runjutsu> arora: ?
18:31 < arora> eh, something unclear runjutsu ?
18:31 < Psi-Jack> Yes. You.
18:32 < runjutsu> arora: what else would I be refering to?
18:33 < runjutsu> is the linux API developing as well as e.g. windows or apples OS APIs?
18:34 < sparr> Psi-Jack: yeah, had to do something for a minute
18:34 < Pentode> i think im going to switch to zsh
18:34 < sparr> I have a command that wants to be called like "command -opt paramtoopt"
18:34 < Psi-Jack> runjutsu: Single user mode usually refers more to services than users. Misleading today yes, but single user mode usually simply does not start all the usual services.
18:34 < sparr> I can't figure out how to pass -opt a parameter that starts with a dash
18:35 < Psi-Jack> sparr: a minute? More like 30?
18:35 < runjutsu> Psi-Jack: right, misleading then.
18:35 < sparr> I used tar as an example people might recognize
18:37 < TheWild> hello
18:38 < TheWild> well s**t, my parents SSD died today at the morning. (wtf? It did not report any problems before.)
18:38 < TheWild> http://termbin.com/h9va
18:39 < TheWild> any chances that I can still dig into the data?
18:39 < sparr> Psi-Jack: sorry, work got busy
18:39 < sparr> and I was exasperated by the tar-specific and filename-specific responses I was getting
18:40 < Psi-Jack> sparr: well when you make confusing and conflicting questions that make little sense... Hehe
18:40 < Psi-Jack> And then get quiet about it...
18:40 < deww> oh sparr, don't ever change <3
18:40 < rud0lf> is 172.16.23.21 local or global ip?
18:40 < elisa87> how can I open .vid videos in centos?
18:40 < Pentode> TheWild, do other drives work on the controller that the SSD is plugged in to?
18:41 < sparr> elisa87: run "file" on it to see what format it is
18:41 < Pentode> have you tried pulling it and plugging it into another machine?
18:41 < TheWild> (shrug) I haven't tested yet
18:41 < deww> rud0lf: internal/reserved
18:41 < rud0lf> thanks
18:41 < TheWild> well I'll try
18:41 < Pentode> it _looks_ like a faulty controller
18:41 < Psi-Jack> runjutsu: Back in the day however... Single user mode did mean single user.
18:42 < Psi-Jack> Just never in Linux
18:42 < TheWild> okay then... will be back eventually
18:42 < Pentode> thats not to say that it cant be the disk as well.
18:42 < Pentode> k
18:43 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, so on modern systems single user / rescue / runlevel 1, whatever you wanna call it, is still multi-user?
18:44 < Celelibi> I disabled the swap. So why does my computer become completely unusable when I'm out of memory? Why is the HDD reading/writing like crazy to the point of locking up the whole machine?
18:44 < sparr> Psi-Jack: I didn't mean for it to be confusing or conflicting. what I meant was "here's an example using tar, but my real problem isn't related to a filename so if you just tell me to add ./ to the start of the filename that won't be helpful"
18:45 < searedvandal> single quotes didn't work?
18:45 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: well rescue/recovery mode is different from single user mode
18:45 < Pentode> Celelibi, huge memory leak somewhere?
18:45 < Celelibi> It's called firefox.
18:45 < Celelibi> But that's not the question.
18:45 < elisa87> sparr: scene38-camera1.vid: 8086 relocatable (Microsoft)
18:45 < Celelibi> I'd expect OOM-killer to just kill firefox every few hours.
18:46 < sparr> elisa87: weird, that sounds like it's an executable program
18:46 < sparr> for windows
18:46 < Celelibi> But instead, I get the lockup as usual.
18:46 < Psi-Jack> Celelibi: how much ram?
18:46 < bls> Celelibi: because the OOM killer isn't guaranteed to kill the process you think is responsible
18:47 < Celelibi> Psi-Jack, 1.7GB.
18:47 < Pentode> Celelibi, something else is leaking.
18:47 < Celelibi> bls, oh it does.
18:47 < Psi-Jack> Well no wonder...
18:47 < Psi-Jack> Get more ram.
18:47 < Celelibi> When the kernel decide to finally run OOM-killer.
18:47 < Celelibi> Or when I invoke it manually.
18:47 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, well, man runlevel says runlevel 1 is rescue.target on systemd, and man telinit also gives me 1 is rescue. Arch wiki / wikipedia calls these single-user mode. just got a bit confused, I guess.
18:47 < Celelibi> But the disk activity just doesn't make sens to me.
18:48 < Pentode> Celelibi, use htop to monitor all of the processes and see which one is cranking
18:48 < ksk> Celelibi: firefox (and other modern browsers) are known to write lots of stuff to disk
18:48 < Celelibi> Pentode, firefox
18:48 < ksk> that could become an issue if your disk is low
18:48 < ksk> *slow
18:49 < bls> the disk activity could be things writing error/crash logs to disk when they fail to allocate more RAM
18:49 < Celelibi> Meh. It should take hours.
18:49 < bls> or core files
18:49 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: rescue/recovery mode is actually when the system only allows one user to login during the middle of the boot process. Initiated by a kernel parameter these days.
18:50 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, I see. thanks.
18:50 < Celelibi> Shouldn't*
18:50 < Psi-Jack> Firefox, for example, writes several GB to the disk every hour keeping state caches...
18:51 < Psi-Jack> Especially if you have lots of tabs open.
18:53 < GodOfsea> YOLO
18:54 < Pentode> yoyoyo
18:57 < GodOfsea> So
18:57 < GodOfsea> https://paste.linux.community/view/2b7b13c7
18:57 < GodOfsea> I tried changing mail_privileged_group = vmail
18:57 < GodOfsea> it didnt work
18:57 < GodOfsea> its dovecot
18:58 < GodOfsea> Errr
18:58 < GodOfsea> Sorry nevermind
18:58 < GodOfsea> I got it
18:59 < GodOfsea> ignore this
19:00 < caraconan> Hi there. There's a way to check if my external USB sound card in is stereo?
19:00 < caraconan> If I set darkice "channel" setting to 1 (mono upon documentation) it starts, but if I set to 2 it does not start
19:01 < caraconan> If I change the device to laptop's internal sound card I can set "channel" to 2 and start darkice
19:01 < caraconan> Any other way to check sound card capabilities? Thanks
19:05 < TheWild> well, no effect. I'll give SMART from another computer soon.
19:06 < caraconan> Same with arecord: https://paste.debian.net/1029089/
19:08 < TheWild> http://termbin.com/0zbj
19:08 < akd> I was able to use accent with my "English (US Alternative Layout", I was able to write "é" when pressing (ALT-GR + ") + e , now I am writing "'e". I want to restore my ALT-GR . I dont remember where is the kebyoard configuration. I am on Linux Debian Stretch With a Cinnamon desktop. Any Help ?
19:08 < TheWild> "blockdev --getsize64" reports 2064384 bytes
19:14 < kbob> akd you can set the layout with 'setxkbmap -layout us'
19:16 < TheWild> can someone tell me is there a chance to recover the data or the disk is a toast?
19:16 < searedvandal> akd, 'setxkbmap -layout us -variant altgr-intl'
19:17 < hassoon> TheWild: you want to recover deleted files ?
19:18 < TheWild> not recover deleted files. The SSD drive "died" suddenly
19:19 < hassoon> kbob: setxkbmap us; not  setxkbmap -layout us
19:21 < kbob> heh
19:22 < frostschutz> TheWild, unless this is a widely known issue (like 4000 hour bug of crucial), there is nothing whatsoever you could do
19:23 < Psi-Jack> Heh, 4000 hour bug?
19:24 < frostschutz> was it 5000? anyway, you had to update firmware for drive to not go missing within 60 minutes of booting
19:24 < Psi-Jack> 5000 or 5200, yes.
19:25 < frostschutz> intel had 8MB bug...
19:25 < Psi-Jack> Hell, Intel had a LOT of bugs.
19:25 < Psi-Jack> After sending back several hundred Intel SSDs and killing them within 2 weeks of getting them, I gave up on Intel.
19:26 < frostschutz> but unless it's something like that with a firmware update or known workaround, there's nothing you can do about a dead SSD
19:27 < Psi-Jack> Well, there's plenty you can DO with a dead SSD.
19:27 < Psi-Jack> Just not use it for a storage device anymore. :)
19:28 < GunqqerFriithian> what can you do with a dead SSD?
19:28 < Psi-Jack> Throw it and play fetch with the dogs with it.
19:28 < GunqqerFriithian> :\
19:28 < paulcarroty> LOL
19:28 < Psi-Jack> Strip it for parts. :)
19:29 < GunqqerFriithian> what parts from an SSD can be used for other things?
19:29 < Psi-Jack> Lots.
19:29 < frostschutz> well, you could try secure erase or psid revert. probably won't help but you have nothing to lose after it turned into a 1.44MB floppy disk
19:29 < TheWild> funny
19:30 < TheWild> s**t, this is the one I personally didn't have big interest of backing up, but my parents do
19:30 < TheWild> there were a lot of photos
19:30 < searedvandal> if it's important data one could always spend the money on sending it to a recovery company and hope they manages to retrieve data.
19:30 < frostschutz> then don't do anything and send it to a data recovery. or try to recover photos from sd cards they were on originally if those haven't been overwritten yet
19:31 < Psi-Jack> TheWild: What, specifically is the issue?
19:31 < frostschutz> but SSD is a nightmare for data recovery company as well
19:31 < TheWild> SMART: http://termbin.com/0zbj
19:31 < frostschutz> it's not like HDD which keeps data neat and tidy forever
19:31 < Dan39> is anyone doing stuff like transferring the memory chips to another working SSD?
19:32 < TheWild> it's probably much the state of yesterday, when it was working nicely like nothing is going on
19:32 < searedvandal> sure, and it probably cost a lot more than HDD. but I would imagine they have a higher chance of success than trying to recover it yourself.
19:32 < Psi-Jack> TheWild: SMART data alone doesn't really say much...
19:32 < TheWild> it just died at the morning, without reason
19:33 < Dan39> TheWild: whats the model of SSD?
19:33 < TheWild> SPCC Solid State    (lshw said)
19:33 < Dan39> you dont get any errors at all? does it show up at all?
19:34 < Dan39> TheWild: can you look at the physical SSD itself?
19:34 < TheWild> the drive is somewhat visible (BIOS however reports it as 0 GB).
19:34 < TheWild> blockdev says the drive is 2064384 bytes in size
19:34 < TheWild> can't read any sector
19:35 < TheWild> status: { DRDY ERR }        error: { ABRT }
19:35 < Dan39> model...?
19:36 < GunqqerFriithian> would dd'ing it be a bad idea and trying to recover that data?
19:36 < TheWild> dd fails :(
19:36 < GunqqerFriithian> Oof.
19:36 < TheWild> as I said,, can't read any sectors
19:36 < Dagmar> It's broken
19:36 < Dagmar> If you can't read any sectors, there's not much to do other than bin it
19:36 < hassoon> broken leg
19:36 < copart> TheWild: you try a diff system?  rule out controller?
19:36 < GunqqerFriithian> F
19:37 < TheWild> mhmm... I put it to a different laptop and the same problem occurs
19:38 < GunqqerFriithian> RIP
19:38 < GunqqerFriithian> if it is that important pay a drive recoverry company to do it
19:38 < TheWild> well, I think I'll do
19:39 < TheWild> let it be a penalty for not backing data up at the time
19:42 < GunqqerFriithian> yeah daily incremental backups and a fortnightly full backup
19:43 < SuperSeriousCat> What do you guys backup? I got nothing to backup besides what I already have on GitHub
19:45 < justsomeguy> For me, financial documents, insurance, private source code repositories (very early prototypes), movies, books, a personal journal, a personal wiki.... the list goes on.
19:46 < justsomeguy> Oh, also image files edited in Krita..
19:46 < justsomeguy> (Really big ones.)
19:46 < nchambers> all of the code that I don't keep in git
19:46 < nchambers> my ssh keys/access codes/certificates
19:47 < nchambers> private keys
19:47 < hexnewbie> Code not in GIT? Release early, release often! ;) (Haven't made any releases in last year, lol)
19:49 < hexnewbie> If only I could make up my mind what license I want, I may not look so anti-cathedral
20:00 < Sabotender> tsk, why is it that the ONE drive that I want to perform SMART tests on, the feature is unavailable in 'Disks' :-p
20:00 < Lope> nethos: searedvandal: sorry for the late reply. I didn't realize ubuntu offers the nvidia drivers. I'm not sure why google gave me version 375 when I searched for the nvidia driver. I've installed version 384 because I'm running ubuntu 16.04. The reason I'm running 16.04 is because cuda 8.0 is only offered for ubuntu 16.04 (I can't run a newer CUDA toolkit because my GPU is Geforce GT540M with compute capability 2.1 and will only work on CUDA
20:00 < Lope> toolkit 8.0 or older)
20:01 < Sabotender> I have a hard disk here that needs to be imaged because it is getting ready to crash (the motherboard is reporting it to be wonky) and I need to be very careful with the data
20:01 < TheWild> well then, I have now two proofs that SMART is bullsh..
20:02 < hexnewbie> TheWild: It's not. (Unless you're expecting it to do things it does not, and has never promised to)
20:04 < TheWild> excuse me. Three!
20:05 < ntd> anyone know of a clean and simple xorg application that will pull multiple video/image feeds and display them in a grid?
20:05 < TheWild> this one, yet SMART didn't alert me at the time. The one in the netbook has a burst of bad sectors, never reallocated them and SMART, despite stats claims the disk is fine.
20:05 < Sabotender> dang it, unknown file type 'exfat' sometimes I hate you linux
20:05 < runjutsu> should you avoid kissing up to your new boss?
20:05 < TheWild> (netbook had HDD)
20:06 < TheWild> and the best one: the SSD in my office - it has a spread of bad sectors and has thousands of read errors, yet again, SMART claims the disk is fine.
20:07 < frostschutz> SMART is great (well - better than nothing) if used correctly. If you only look at smartctl -H, then you're not using it
20:07 < frostschutz> regular selftests are important too
20:08 < hexnewbie> Sabotender: You mean you hate Microsoft, surely? :)
20:09 < Sabotender> I guess. but this computer I am running ubuntu on has no internet because (surprise surprise) neither the bluetooth or the wireless drivers are working by default
20:10 < hexnewbie> Been there. After my motherboard died once, I had to plug a USB wireless to get access to the internet to get the on-board network card working...
20:10 < Sabotender> I am trying to think outside the box here; I can probably use my iphone to tether the internet connection, because (luckily) that thing will work on just about any OS
20:10 < Sabotender> and its funny because I only need the internet to install exfat-fuse and exfat-utils
20:11 < hexnewbie> Sabotender: Download the .deb/.rpm to a flash drive on another computer, and install with rpm -ivh or dpkg -i?
20:11 < Lope>  the cuda toolkit 8.0 says it needs nvidia 375. Would it not work with nvidia 384?
20:11 < electricmilk> Anyone recommend a lightweight linux distro for kids aged 3 to 11?  At this point I wont even give it internet access but going to install on old laptops so need for it to be very lightweight.  I have my eye on DouDou which is debian based.  That should work well on older hardware right? Or is there something else you recommend?
20:11 < hexnewbie> Sabotender: I mean rpm -i, bad habit from old days
20:13 < Lope> now I installed nvidia-375 but it installed nvidia 384 also... weird.
20:13 < Sabotender> hexnewbie: well I am using my ubuntu live-on-USB thingy
20:14 < Sabotender> this thing has saved my bacon more than once, its just not as...ready...as I'd like it to be
20:14 < hexnewbie> I cursed a lot at the Ubuntu live for lacking RAID drivers and utilities once (actual reason for needing USB wifi stick, actually)
20:15 < searedvandal> electricmilk, how about Sugar? sugarlabs.org
20:15 < hexnewbie> Sabotender: You can plug a second stick with the .deb files and install them from the live CD with dpkg -i, of course :)
20:15 < Sabotender> I wish I knew how to PERMANANTLY install stuff like ex-fuse to the USB stick
20:15 < TheWild> by the way, on the label there's only SP printed. It might be "Silicon Power".
20:15 < Sabotender> so that it is there whenever I boot it in live-cd (USB) mode
20:15 < TheWild> darn, they could be more verbose
20:16 < electricmilk> searedvandal,  Thanks I'll check it out.  Too bad Qimo was retired as its based off of XFCE.
20:16 < TheWild> SP S55
20:16 < TheWild> it's almost no name
20:16 < electricmilk> searedvandal,  You think Sugar Labs will play nicely on older hardware?
20:18 < noway96> I have a hard drive. How do I ensure that no one can mount it and look into it?
20:18 < revel> Throw it in a volcano.
20:19 < nrg> destroy it
20:19 < noway96> I mean I still want to use it
20:19 < noway96> but no one else should
20:19 < revel> FDD?
20:19 < nrg> prayer i guess
20:19 < searedvandal> electricmilk, you can install it as a DE on any distro you want or they have a live usb solution. I haven't tried it on ancient hardware, but I think it will work on older hardware. another distro is ubermix.org, based on ubuntu.
20:19 < electricmilk> Yea but doesn't that use Unity which will be slow as hell?
20:20 < TheWild> what could go wrong on that SSD?
20:20 < hexnewbie> TheWild: Since there's almost no such thing as a literal no-name (even prototypes by your buddy would have some name on it), it *is* no name (no almost about it)
20:20 < macwinne_> i have a linux server that has a GPG keypair setup.  what's the best way to sync this across a cluster of servers?  Our customers can SFTP upload a PGP encrypted file to any of the servers.  I wanted each server to be able to independently post-process the file
20:23 < TheWild> sh**, sh**, sh**, SH**!!  Recovery company may not even touch this
20:23 < searedvandal> electricmilk, ah, yeah. probably. have you looked into DebianEdu/Skolelinux? maybe that's not targeted towards the youngest though
20:23 < TheWild> well, maybe my parents have some photos still on their SD cards.
20:24 < hexnewbie> TheWild: photorec may recover some of the deleted photos from the camera's cards (in fact, that's one of its original purposes), so you may recover more than you have by directly copying
20:24 < electricmilk> searedvandal,  I haven't. I'll check them out. Thanks. Trying to setup a computer lab for pre-school / day care center.  We have dozens of old laptops I'd rather put to good use than donate.
20:24 < noway96> So basically I have a rootfs.img that gets loaded at some time during the EFI/BOOT stage. I want to ensure that the rootfs.img is not compromised?
20:25 < electricmilk> photorec / testdisk works just as well as commercial data recovery software I've used.
20:25 < phogg> noway96: Sounds like you're not sure if you want that.
20:25 < Dagmar> noway96: Have fun writing new code for the bootstrap
20:25 < TheWild> hexnewbie: meh, highly probably it was overwritten
20:26 < searedvandal> electricmilk, I see. If I had to set up something for that age group, spread from 3 to 11, I think I would have looked into DebianEdu/Skolelinux and added Sugar as a extra DE for the youngest.
20:26 < phogg> encrypt it and decrypt during boot using keys from TPM
20:26 < Sabotender> hexnewbie: see I hate this. I tried to install efat-fuse the right way via command line but all it gave me was grief. downloaded the .deb and it installed immediately
20:27 < electricmilk> searedvandal,  Ah that's not a bad idea.  We already have two desktops running Windows 7 that they want to give internet access for the older kids.  I was thinking Edubuntu for those machines as they should handle it.
20:28 < searedvandal> electricmilk, is Edubuntu still active?
20:29 < electricmilk> searedvandal, Ah good point. Looks like last update was 2015
20:29 < electricmilk> err 2016 actually
20:30 < phogg> electricmilk: that's not incredibly old for a niche subdistro.
20:30 < searedvandal> electricmilk, yeah, thought it was something like that. latest debianedu/skolelinux are from 17.06.2017
20:30 < Lope> Why does it not install? I've got the nvidia-384 package installed on ubuntu 16.04. https://hastebin.com/ixufirizik.sql
20:31 < electricmilk> Meh. I think I'll just need to play around with distros.  I'll just download several and place it in a Virtual Box VM with similar specs to the laptops
20:31 < electricmilk> Or I could simply just install them on the laptops...but I'm quite lazy
20:33 < searedvandal> yeah, shop around and see what you think works best
20:34 < Sabotender> okay I am a bit nervous about backing up this disc because the motherboard has already reported that there are problems with it (but luckily linux can still see it)
20:34 < Sabotender> I am going to use the DD command
20:35 < Dagmar> ...and we care, why?
20:35 < Furai> Any gettext fanatics around? Any channel to find such fanatics?
20:35 < Furai> I have some really specific questions.
20:36 < domhnall> Does using dd affect the checksum of a distro? ;i.e distinfo
20:36 < Sabotender> I need to double check my DD syntax
20:36 < Dagmar> Only if you use it to scribble something else on top of the data youre running a checksum for
20:37 < koala_man> Sabotender: consider using dd_rescue if the disk has read errors
20:37 < Sabotender> koala_man I am not sure if it has read errors
20:37 < justsomeguy> Furai: Maybe you should try asking on the gettext mailing list: https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/FAQ.html
20:38 < justsomeguy> Hopefully someone can chime in with an IRC channel name. I think irc is nicer to use for some things.
20:39 < Furai> Yeah, I wanted more real time conversation.
20:39 < Furai> I guess browsing source also kind of worsk.
20:40 < NewbProgrammer10> hello
20:40 < Sabotender> "dd if=/dev/nvme0n1 of=/media/ubuntu/WD/windowsbackup.img bs=4096 conv=noerror,sync"
20:40 < Sabotender> does that syntax appear to be correct
20:40 < koala_man> justsomeguy: is this for using the gettext library in C code?
20:41 < domhnall> Sabotender: 'test' ?
20:42 < Sabotender> domhnall: I try to be extremely careful with the DD command :-P
20:42 < Sabotender> im pretty sure the input file is correct, but I don't know if I can use that type of mount point for the output file
20:43 < revel> I'd try to make sure there's enough space on the second end.
20:43 < revel> (and it's not the same device)
20:43 < Sabotender> oh there's plenty of space, and definitely not the same device
20:43 < revel> (slash partition)
20:44 < Sabotender> the nvme drive is 128GB and the western digital drive has 922GB free
20:45 < revel> I'm not 100% sure on the "conv=noerror,sync"
20:45 < justsomeguy> koala_man: Ask Furai. I'm not sure what gettext it is, was just googling for support channels. Should have asked for clarification earlier.
20:45  * justsomeguy assumed that it was the gnu gettext utilities, but now he realized that he jumped the gun.
20:45 < koala_man> yes, wrong nick
20:45 < TheWild> heh, parents are telling me that they think I made a backup ot their photos some time ago.
20:46 < Sabotender> revel: the source is not supposed to be mounted or can it be mounted
20:46 < TheWild> if it is the case then my memury must be really bad
20:47 < revel> Not 100% sure what sync is good for.
20:47 < Sabotender> it says 'sync data offsets stay in sync'
20:48 < Furai> koala_man, gettext is gnu utility that let's you create translations.
20:48 < GodOfsea> exit
20:48 < bipul> man page says it's "sync - Synchronize cached writes to persistent storage"
20:48 < Furai> koala_man, if you have ever seen some application with i18n or l11n then it had probably po/pot/mo files in it.
20:48 < revel> It says "Pad every input block to size of ‘ibs’ with trailing zero bytes"
20:49 < koala_man> Furai: yes. are you asking about gettext(1) or gettext(3)?
20:49 < revel> Well, that's what the info page says. `dd --help` says "pad every input block with NULs to ibs-size"
20:52 < Sabotender> okay, I tried it and it appears to be working well
20:52 < Sabotender> phew
20:54 < Furai> koala_man, most likely xgettext(1)
20:54 < Sabotender> I am making two copies. one is an image from DD and the other is just a standard copy, just in case I need to quickly grab one or two files
20:55 < koala_man> Furai: try ##workingset then
20:56 < Sabotender> and then I am using DD to wipe the drive so I can send it for warranty replacement
20:56 < Sabotender> I need to research how to perform a secure wipe with DD
20:56 < koala_man> remember to umount it before using dd
20:56 < Sabotender> yeah, its unmounted
20:57 < Sabotender> ADATA said that they send the drives to their 'headquarters' so they can be 'destroyed', but I kind of rolled my eyes at that. More like 'lets see what we can recover, first'
20:58 < Sabotender> I am surprised this drive started to fail after six months. There was really nothing on it but windows. it was a boot M.2 drive :-(
20:59 < Sabotender> I have drives in this computer that are going on five and seven years old. And they are in perfect working order (so far as SMART says, anyway)
21:01 < sadbox> Sabotender: It's unlikely that you can use dd to actually-wipe a SSD
21:01 < sadbox> especially one that's failing
21:01 < Sabotender> oh, indeed?
21:02 < Sabotender> perhaps I can just wipe one particular data partition, overwrite with zeroes or something
21:02 < sadbox> when you write to a block on a SSD it doesn't map directly to a block on the disk
21:02 < sadbox> s/disk/NAND/
21:02 < Sabotender> oh interesting
21:03 < Lope> I got it working BTW.
21:04 < sadbox> Sabotender: It's done for a mix of performance (writing in parallel to multiple NAND chips is how SSDs are so fast) and durability (it will spread the write load over a bunch of blocks since each one has a limited number of write cycles)
21:04 < SuperSeriousCat> Cant you wipe it by using dd count=(all sectors count)?
21:04 < sadbox> SuperSeriousCat: There is no guarantee that it will write to every sector, or just mark them as "blank", it's 100% up to the controller on the SSD
21:05 < SuperSeriousCat> If you write random? Not "blank"?
21:05 < sadbox> SuperSeriousCat: Also most / all consumer SSD are overprovisioned, so there are more sectors than it even exposes to you
21:06 < bls> it can also consider blocks "bad", take them out of the pool of good blocks, and refuse to interact with/erase/write them again
21:06 < sadbox> bls++
21:06 < sadbox> To solve this most SSDs have a feature called secure-erase
21:07 < bls> decent ones have secure erase, haven't ever seen an analysis of how thorough it actually is though across the industry
21:07 < sadbox> they will transparently encrypt the drive (i.e. the actual data written to the NAND chips are always encrypted) and you just delete the encryption key
21:07 < sadbox> but yeah, you're stuck trusting the vendor to not be shitty
21:08 < MibixFox> can anyone help me getting this systemd service to run?  I installed the program using this guide on ubuntu https://github.com/Sonarr/Sonarr/wiki/Installation#linux and ive followed this guide to do the systemd autostart https://github.com/Sonarr/Sonarr/wiki/Autostart-on-Linux#systemd
21:08 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: So you're all into SwagArch, right? You integrate swagarch's ISO into multi-boot?
21:08 < MibixFox> no matter what user and group i put in there i cant seem to get it to say active?
21:09 < za1b1tsu> is there a cli application that has folder tree / editor / previewer for markdowns?
21:09 < sadbox> Sabotender: SuperSeriousCat; the tl;dr is that SSDs expose what looks like a "normal" hard drive, but under the hood they function a lot more like a raid controller + a bunch of drives (the individual NAND chips)
21:10 < bls> za1b1tsu: do you want a CLI or a TUI?
21:10 < za1b1tsu> bls: cli
21:11 < bls> then I have no idea how a CLI would do those things to markdown files
21:11 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: yep ive run a bunch of live arch. parabola, artix, revengeos, archbang. swagarch is the smoothest of them all so far http://pastebin.centos.org/836921/raw/
21:11 < za1b1tsu> bls: tui?
21:12 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Poifect. Figured you would.
21:12 < Psi-Jack> za1b1tsu: Text User Interface
21:12 < bls> za1b1tsu: TUI is shorthand for ncurses applications that run in a terminal
21:12 < SuperSeriousCat> Nice funfact, sadbox :)
21:12 < Psi-Jack> Not necessarily ncurses related,.
21:13 < za1b1tsu> bls: what about tui options?
21:13 < bls> za1b1tsu: emacs
21:13 < bls> although previewing markdown in a TUI isn't going to be very useful
21:13 < za1b1tsu> bls: wow, learning emacs just to some markdowns is a little...I dont know
21:14 < za1b1tsu> but thanks for the recommendation
21:14 < bls> as opposed to learning a completely different tool?
21:14 < za1b1tsu> bls: I never used emacs, but you are right. Thank you
21:15 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Hmm.. What's the rest of your multi-boot stuff look like?
21:17 < bls> not sure if that's something vim/mc/ranger would do
21:17 < za1b1tsu> bls, I was thinking of that... but setting it up to automatically run a viewer in a 3rd window... I don't know
21:17 < za1b1tsu> I don't think there is a simple solution
21:18 < Sabotender> yay! the dd command was successful
21:18 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: still uptodate. im getting lazier as time goes on tho. not installing 4mlinux with every release http://pastebin.centos.org/837001/raw/
21:18 < Psi-Jack> Yeah.. loopback is what I was looking for. :)
21:18 < bls> za1b1tsu: I don't bother doing all that stuff in a single application
21:19 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Heh, got a new computer at work today for my workstation. Forgot to bring in my multi-boot USB drives in preparation for it. LOL
21:19 < bls> edit in emacs, use a script with inotify + discount + browser remote to automate the preview-on-save functionality
21:20 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: all the arch distros you have to mount the ISO & put the squashfs someplace these days. their initrd isnt built to dig it out of the ISO anymore. they still find it by volumelabel tho
21:20 < Psi-Jack> Hmm
21:20 < Psi-Jack> Really?
21:23 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: yep they use the archisolabel= & archisobasedir= parms but on distros like swagarch theyre properly supported
21:25 < za1b1tsu> any cli browser that supports autorefresh (besides links2)?
21:25 < searedvandal> triceratux, that is one massive grub file
21:26 < triceratux> searedvandal: youre very kind. i owe it all to the gnu/linux/x11 community ;)
21:27 < searedvandal> :)
21:28 < bls> I think elinks has remote control, although it's got some pretty bad security holes for any other use
21:28 < bls> but HTML isn't going to look much different from markdown in a terminal
21:34 < pennTeller> Hi guys I am getting a strange error when trying to compile the Linux Kernel,  MakeFile:184 Compiler lacks asm-goto support.. Stop.      However I am using the latest Fedora release and I am also using the latest version of GCC
21:35 < bls> pennTeller: might need to ask the fedora channel then what packages are required
21:35 < bls> might have separately packaged gas
21:35 < pennTeller> bls, ok thanks will do
21:35 < Dan39> why won't an ACL someuser:rw work if a file is g-w? seems to require the file to be g+w... why? if i run setfacl on a file that is g-w, it adds g+w. if i then force it g-w, getfacl says the user's effective permissions is only r
21:36 < Psi-Jack> What about the Gas Guage indicator on your RAID controller alerts? ;)
21:37 < Sabotender> how can I run a manual SMART check on a drive?
21:37 < Psi-Jack> smartctl
21:37 < Sabotender> DISKS is not reporting smart information for some reason
21:37 < bls> do they even support it?
21:40 < bls> I've got some older reds that I can't get to report. not sure if it's the drive or the enclosure they're in
21:41 < Abbott> so when I close the lid of my laptop while I'm connected to a host via ssh and then open it later, I've obviously lost the connection, but my terminal will wait for a timeout or whatever. Is there a way to just close out of the connection instead of having to wait for the inevitable timeout other than closing the window for the terminal? would also help in scenarios without a WM
21:41 < bls> Abbott: ever considered mosh?
21:41 < Sabotender> hmm is smart not available for m.2 ssd?
21:42 < ayecee> what happens when you try
21:43 < bls> Abbott: because my approach is to use mosh, remember to close the connection, or pkill ssh on wakeup
21:43 < Sabotender> hang on, trying now
21:43 < Abbott> mosh looks cool
21:44 < bls> it's got some quirks that some people rage about, but is useful in scenarios where your connectivity is regularly broken
21:47 < Sabotender> ayecee: BOO it says "media and data integrity errors : 3"
21:48 < ayecee> that doesn't sound like smartctl output
21:48 < za1b1tsu> is there any terminal browser that supports markdown?
21:50 < lopid> markdown is to be converted to html, not supported directly by a web browser
21:50 < bls> why would it when the browser is for viewing html and there are tons of tools for converting markdown to html?
21:50 < lnnb> all we need is markleft and markright support and we'll be feature complete
21:51 < ayecee> mark to the left, mark to the right, mark up mark down byte byte bte!
21:51  * bls starts competing "standard" marknorth, marksouth, markeast, and markwest
21:52 < lnnb> this is why i hate the industry, too many cooks
21:52 < arora> and now the broth is spoiled
21:52 < bls> monoculture for everyone!
21:52 < ayecee> promising lasagna while heading towards the microwave
21:52 < arora> mmmm
21:54 < Sabotender> ayecee: I just tried the long test and it says "SMART Overall-health self-assessment test result: FAILED! - media has been placed in read only mode"
21:55 < ayecee> ah
21:55 < ayecee> yeah, that's a bad sign
21:55 < ayecee> on the bright side, it supports smart
21:56 < TheWild> yeah, I would be happy if mine was just switched on read-only mode
21:56 < Sabotender> ayecee: I am trying to read this critical error code : 0x08
21:56 < ayecee> success
21:58 < Sabotender> success?
21:58 < Sabotender> lol
21:58 < ayecee> you read it
21:58 < ayecee> you were successful in reading it
21:58 < Sabotender> it is right next to "Critical Warning: 0x08"
21:58 < Sabotender> oh hah I am trying to interpret what that error code means
21:58 < ayecee> well good luck with that
21:58 < Sabotender> so this means I wouldnt be able to delete the data on the drive if I wanted to
21:59 < ayecee> read only would imply that, yes
21:59 < bls> my guess, and this could be wrong, is that that's 8 in hexadecimal
21:59 < ayecee> this guy hexes
22:00 < sdegutis> Hello there.
22:00 < sdegutis> Are there command line tools/programs that let you run programs side by side in a terminal, invoking them with one command?
22:01 < sdegutis> Like, it would turn my terminal into two or three columns and run two or three programs, one in each.
22:01 < bls> sdegutis: like tmux or screen?
22:01 < sdegutis> Yeah like tmux I guess.
22:01 < sdegutis> So maybe tmux is the answer.
22:01 < bls> tmux splitw commmand1; tmux splitw command2
22:04 < bipul> But the problem is with tmux is that one can not scroll up.
22:04 < bls> yes you can
22:04 < bipul> How?
22:05 < bls> enter scroll mode via the keyboard or mouse
22:05 < sdegutis> Oh wait what am I thinking?
22:05 < ayecee> one can not, technically correct. bipul can not.
22:05 < bipul> is that you thinking something.
22:05 < sdegutis> I should just use Emacs for this. It can already open three side by side panes and run terminals in them.
22:05 < sdegutis> Plus I already have Emacs set up, lol.
22:05 < bipul> Yes i can not.
22:06 < bls> heh, eshell for the win
22:06 < sdegutis> right on
22:07 < Sabotender> ayecee: would you be interested in seeing the smart output from this drive? perhaps you'd be able to interpret some of the data. its not a long file I promise
22:08 < ayecee> if you pastebin it, someone's gonna look at it
22:08 < Sabotender> lol, but I was asking you :-P okay give me a moment
22:08 < bipul> Yes. :D i the first who will see
22:08 < bipul> I'm the first*
22:09 < bipul> But what do you mean "this drive" ?
22:09 < Sabotender> liez! bear with me, I am working on two different computers
22:09 < ayecee> the drive he's working on
22:09 < ayecee> Sabotender: picture could also be good
22:11 < Sabotender> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GjWBn8w5hs/
22:12 < Buoy172> Hello
22:12 < ayecee> 0% available spares. yup, it's dead.
22:12 < Sabotender> ayecee: what does that mean? available spare?
22:13 < Sabotender> spare what? spare tyres?
22:13 < ayecee> spare erase blocks
22:13 < Buoy172> I found that "rm -rf ..?* .[!.]* *" removes all files in a folder except "." and "..". Now, how do I change this command and make it also exclude the file ".secret"?
22:14 < Sabotender> wow how the hell did that happen? theres nothing on that drive except for windows, and I had the page file moved to a different drive
22:14 < plexigras> both my mice jitter up and down when scrowling maybe they are both broken but i don't have another pc to test this out so what should i do?
22:15 < bls> Buoy172: you'll likely need to move up to something like find, because shell globs alone can't express all that
22:15 < Sabotender> and most of my applications were installed to different drives, except for one or two that I wanted fast load times that SSD provides
22:15  * Sabotender shakes his fist at ADATA
22:15 < bls> Buoy172: that or ask #bash if there's a bashism for it if that's the shell you're using
22:16 < bipul> "rm -rf ..?* .[!.]* [.secret]*" try this
22:16 < ayecee> sometimes things fail and it's just unlucky.
22:16 < DLange> will rm .secret, bipul
22:17 < DLange> hint: try stuff before you suggest it. Esp. with stuff like rm
22:17 < bls> please don't just randomly guess at potentially destructive commands
22:17 < bipul> DLange, okay. :)
22:17 < ayecee> Sabotender: however, this 128gb drive had 1.91 tb of writes in 4154 hours. it seems like it was pretty busy.
22:17 < bipul> I'm sorry.
22:17 < ayecee> also 11 unsafe shutdowns :o
22:18 < Sabotender> ayecee: do you think the running temp was too hot?
22:18 < ayecee> no
22:19 < n-iCe> I hate it, I always use my laptop with a tv monitor, but when I use my laptop somewhere else, i still thinks the monitor is connected and the screen is black, any idea? using VGA
22:20 < ayecee> Sabotender: could be that it was not a wear-related failure
22:22 < Sabotender> that unsafe shutdown part is a lot of baloney because my system is on an APC battery back up, and my house is on off grid solar, and I have NEVER experienced a power outage in the 3.8 years I have lived here.
22:22 < Sabotender> I was scratching my head on that
22:22 < Sabotender> ah well. it can't be helped
22:22 < za1b1tsu> Any good note taking app?
22:22 < ayecee> yep
22:23 < bls> za1b1tsu: what makes something beyond a normal text editor a good note taking app?
22:23 < Sabotender> thank you for looking at it. if you spot any other gems that I should know about let me know
22:24 < Sabotender> ayecee: I just thought of something, there may be a reason windows is reporting a registry error, when in fact there's nothing wrong with the registry; the disk is locked and windows can't write to it
22:24 < ayecee> would make sense
22:28 < Sabotender> its going to be 'fun' removing this m.2 drive from my computer. I have to extract the motherboard, because it is on the underside. I wonder if this case can be opened from the backside. probably not
22:29 < ayecee> laptop?
22:29 < mouses> Sabotender: chromebook or something?
22:29 < bipul> Buoy172, I think you need to understand first ..?* .[!.]* *  this
22:29 < ayecee> last m.2 card i removed was under the keyboard, was an easy operation
22:29 < Sabotender> nope, its a mini itx board stuffed in a fractal node-304
22:29 < ayecee> bipul: i think that could help you as well ;)
22:30 < bipul> ayecee,  yes :)
22:30 < Sabotender> this computer is VERY new. ~6 months old.
22:30 < Sabotender> which is why I am shaking my fist at ADATA
22:30 < mouses> Sabotender: lost me at fractal node-304 -- you might as well have said 'quantum space time shell'
22:30 < mouses> Sabotender: but good luck :)
22:30 < Sabotender> lol hang on
22:31 < mouses> i've been watching too much altered carbon I guess
22:31 < mouses> that sounded SO high tech, Sabotender :)
22:31 < Sabotender> https://images.anandtech.com/doci/6470/Small%20(1%20of%2012).jpg
22:31 < mouses> it looks SO MUCH LESS exciting than the name!
22:31 < mouses> Sabotender: I am let down :(
22:31 < Sabotender> that is the case I own. I went minimal YEARS ago. Got tired of gianormous computer towers taking up space, acting like a space heater and a dust filter.
22:32 < mouses> very nice, I dig it.
22:32 < Psi-Jack> I forget is grub2's (hd0,X) 1-indexed or 0 index for partitions?
22:32 < Psi-Jack> I'm guessing 0-index.
22:32 < MrElendig> 1 for disk, 0 for partition
22:32 < TheWild> I'm going to replace the SSD with mechanical one to at least make my parents' laptop usable again, but it feels like that Dell wasn't prepared for this - there are no anti-shock "rubbers"
22:32 < MrElendig> but use uuid instead
22:32 < MrElendig> er other way around
22:32 < TheWild> should I really hunt for some or that HDD should fine without this?
22:33 < TheWild> work
22:33 < fundies> hi. can someone help me debug a possible bug in amdgpu driver? I'm not sure where to begin but when I'm playing a game in wine and do something my graphics lockup and I only have sound and eventually sound cuts out too and I'm forced to do a hard reset on my pc
22:33 < Psi-Jack> MrElendig: Well, this is for loop-mounting ISOs.
22:33 < MrElendig> TheWild: why would you want to switch to a spinner?
22:33 < Sabotender> I just answered my question. nope there is no way to open the underside, so I have to take it all apart
22:33 < Sabotender> I dont feel like doing that today. tomorrow
22:34 < TheWild> it's temporary. The SSD is dead and I have spare working HDD.
22:34 < Sabotender> I digress. thank you very much everyone for helping me see that my drive is indeed toast
22:34 < MrElendig> laptops basically never have shock dampening for spinners
22:34 < darkmeson> Dells were one of the worst-rated brands among IT people for a reason
22:34 < MrElendig> nor do most desktop cases
22:35 < darkmeson> Dell was only second to Acer in terms of most laptops requiring repairs iirc
22:36 < TheWild> hmm... I would rather say PC don't have because they're mostly stationary. Laptops rather do. Mine one (now decommissioned) had some little rubbers. My parents old netbook had a big flat sponge glued to the HDD board.
22:37 < darkmeson> Good desktop cases have rubber grommets for the HDDs too
22:37 < jim> where do those grommets go?
22:37 < darkmeson> Just about any case can be fitted with them for less than a dollar though
22:38 < ayecee> in between the drive and the case
22:38 < MrElendig> which is way too much for most oem cases
22:38 < darkmeson> Laptops are obviously a little trickier due to space constraints
22:39 < darkmeson> Between the hdd and the bay. It usually takes a slightly longer than average screw too
22:39 < rascul> the only laptops i've seen with a decent amount of dampening are the more expensive "rugged" models
22:40 < Sabotender> my fractal node certainly does
22:40 < rascul> generally, if there's anything there, it seems more of an afterthought
22:41 < MrElendig> for a laptop just a press fit would be the best
22:41 < darkmeson> There are little rubber pieces that go on the corners of the HDDs, but the clearances are already so razor thin in today's laptops that there's not enough space for them
22:42 < MrElendig> really the best way to mount hdds in towers too, but sadly little used
22:47 < darkmeson> I actually prefer external storage anyway, but it has to be eSATA unless I want to spin up a FreeBSD driver domain
22:48 < darkmeson> Linux' USB3 chip support is spotty at best
22:50 < darkmeson> That also presents something of a problem when it comes to laptops
22:51 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: What's that archisobasedir and archisolabel=ST03_findiso doing, or supposed to be doing?
22:52 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: theyre letting the kernel/initrd find the squashfs in a particular subdirectory of a particular partition. its /sda3 on a seagate where the readonly isos / squashfs are parked
22:53 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Oh! So the archisolabel is the device label of that filesystem?
22:54 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: yep. i find it easier than the UUID dance
22:55 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: And the archisobasedir?
22:55 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, got it. :)
22:55 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: thats a dir that the LiveOS dir goes in. the LiveOS dir has the squashfs image. yep nothing to it
22:58 < schemanic> hey, my logrotate jobs are removing old compressed logs before running lastaction. Does anyone know how to make it stop doing that?
23:03 < bipul> Buoy172, Try this rm -rf [^.]secret ..?* . * *
23:08 < hailhydra> new laptop. Trying to install Ubuntu. USB hangs. Wubi is gone. Laptop has windows 10. I'm out of ideas.
23:08  * Psi-Jack throws up at the mention of wubi.
23:12 < MrElendig> just write the iso directly to the usb using usbwriter/similar
23:15 < azy> can my laptop tell me how many watts its using?
23:15 < Tazmain> Hi all, I currently use arch linux at home, but I am looking at picking a distro for work, I need to run intelliJ Ultimate and docker, I was thinking debian on the unstable branch?
23:17 < bls> Tazmain: then give it a shot and see if it suits your workflows
23:17 < mgolisch> no idea
23:17 < Tazmain> well if all else fails I drop to arch
23:18 < Tazmain> One thing that is nice with arch, is the aur has a package for intelliJ ultimate
23:18 < bls> just beware of the time sink that using an unstable/rolling distro can turn into for work
23:18 < Tazmain> I don't have to download it manually
23:19 < Tazmain> bls, so far, I update every day so mostly like its part of what I do
23:19 < Tazmain> at home
23:19 < bls> exactly, it's incredibly irritating to work with someone that's ironing out an unnecessary update issue at deadline time
23:19 < darkmeson> Especially when it comes to GBs worth of updates every few days
23:20 < Tazmain> darkmeson, its at most 200megs
23:20 < Tazmain> bls, no I mean it takes me like 1 minute a day :p
23:20 < Tazmain> minimal for me
23:20 < bls> or spending days tweaking something to work on fringe distro X that's already supported out of the box on the supported distros
23:20 < Elladan> azy, you can get battery discharge stats if it's not plugged in.
23:20 < bls> Tazmain: it does when everything goes fine
23:21 < bls> Tazmain: when it doesn't you can lose hours/days of productivity
23:21 < hailhydra> I've yet to get Ubuntu 18 to install. Anyone have any luck?
23:21 < Abbott> if I have a machine on 10.0.0.2 that I want to give a hostname on my machine, is the 'best' way to do that by putting a static host in /etc/hosts?
23:21 < Tazmain> bls, actually I have had the least amount of issues with arch, like mint and ubuntu gave me tooo much trouble with graphics drivers
23:22 < triceratux> hailhydra: im running both 18.04 & 18.10, the latter for the lxqt lubuntu. usual issues, no showstoppers
23:22 < hailhydra> tirceratus: well thats good to hear
23:22  * darkmeson must not be getting all of the messages that are landing in the channel
23:23 < darkmeson> Abbott: that depends on how you're expecting to use the hostname
23:23 < bls> yes, I'm aware of the "I haven't had a problem yet" defense. doesn't help much when you're supposed to get something done, forget to read the news, and trash your install
23:23 < Tazmain> bls, 6 years of use
23:23 < Abbott> darkmeson: I would just like to type "office" or whatever instead of 10.0.0.2 every time
23:23 < well_laid_lawn> Abbott:  that's the only wa afaik
23:24 < Tazmain> bls, had more issues with mint, with distro upgrades
23:24 < triceratux> hailhydra: running voyager 18.04 also. still waiting for the majority of the projects to rebase on 18.04. 16.04 is still pretty solid
23:25 < hailhydra> I'm gonna try 16 next if that doesn't work. I'm sending these laptops back.
23:25 < darkmeson> If you're expecting to do that from other machines, you'll need synchronized hosts files across all your systems, NIS, or  DNS
23:25 < Tazmain> bls, actually that was my biggest issue, was doing a distro upgrade, things went wrong there
23:25 < darkmeson> if it's just to avoid dns hangups, then that's the best practices way
23:26 < Elladan> Abbott, the "best" way is to configure your dns and/or dhcp to assign that hostname.
23:26 < darkmeson> if it's just for simplicity for connecting to the local host, there's already magic in place for the name 'localhost', so most people just use that
23:28 < bls> right, because upgrades are inherently risky so you need to backup, stage, test, and maybe rollback when doing them. that's fine to do when you can plan for it every 6-18 months during downtime, not on a daily/weekly basis
23:28 < hailhydra> Nope looks like 16 hangs also. Eluktronics make really nice laptops. Shame they don't work with Linux
23:29 < n-iCe> are HP good laptops for linux?
23:29 < bls> n-iCe: depends entirely on which model and what's in it
23:30 < n-iCe> I see.
23:30 < n-iCe> Is there a site to see what's compatible and what is not? using a laptop model?
23:32 < Elladan> There are various sites but they're never really up to date and there are zillions of laptop models coming out constantly.
23:32 < n-iCe> yeah
23:32 < Elladan> Your best bet is usually to google the laptop model and "linux" and try to find if someone has written something about it in a forum post.
23:32 < n-iCe> what linux distro would you say if the most compatible, stock installation
23:33 < Elladan> Second best (but you should do both!) is to go through the important components and check them individually.
23:33 < MrElendig> anything that isn't slackware
23:33 < bls> n-iCe: the kernel decides the hardware support, not the distro
23:33 < MrElendig> you generally want as new sofware as possible when it comes to new laptops
23:34 < Elladan> The most common problems with laptops are probably the wifi card, the touchpad, some the GPU I'd say.
23:35 < Elladan> Alternatively you can just buy a laptop that comes with Linux on it.
23:36 < MrElendig> don't buy anything with hybrid graphics
23:36 < Elladan> Unless you want to play video games.
23:36 < MrElendig> unless you are an M
23:36 < hailhydra> So is there any way to install Linux through Windows anymore?
23:37 < hailhydra> I've tried Ubuntu 16 18 and I can't get through the installer. It hangs
23:37 < bls> hailhydra: you mean WSL?
23:37 < hailhydra> bls: what is WSL?
23:38 < Elladan> hailhydra, have you tried changing stuff in the BIOS?
23:38 < djph> AFAIK, you could never "install linux through windows" -- it's always been "transfer image to bootable media, run installer"
23:38 < Elladan> hailhydra, in particular the secure boot / legacy stuff.
23:38 < bls> there's used to be distros that would run on top of windows
23:38 < hailhydra> Elladan: changing stuff in BIOS?
23:39 < Elladan> Those distros didn't run inside of windows. What they did was create a huge file on the windows partition, and then use it as if it was a hard disk.
23:39 < hailhydra> bls: oh the windows sub system thing. No we can't do that. We're developers and deal with security
23:39 < bls> so you don't want to install linux from windows
23:39 < djph> bls: yeah, but weren't they always a little more on the fringes?
23:40 < TheWild> good Linux for my parents? I mean "no, they're not going to type commands" and "every feature available in UI is supposed to work"
23:40 < bls> djph: yes, they were very hacky and ugly to deal with
23:40 < Elladan> There also used to be some things people did like booting Linux from DOS (instead of installing a boot loader) and some Linux installers that were packaged as Windows apps
23:41 < djph> TheWild: Mint or Ubuntu are probably "the gotos" for that usecase.  Although I can't think of any *nix that'll fulfill that "no, they're never going to CLI"
23:41 < Elladan> But really if you're not comfortable installing Linux, in the modern world you really should use a VM instead.
23:41 < bls> or the ones that faked a POSIX FS on top of vfat
23:41 < autopsy> Elladan, I think that was called loadlin does it still exist?
23:42 < Elladan> autopsy, Nothing ever dies on the internet. :-D I bet it works with freedos or something too.
23:42 < TheWild> the problem is: Windows product key sticker is partially unreadable and I have doubts Microsoft is going to do anything about this.
23:42 < akd> Can somebody tell me how to do curl without doing any ouput ?
23:42 < akd> This: curl -sS -o /dev/null http://localhost/raw/test.txt
23:42 < akd> still produce something
23:42 < Elladan> autopsy, now whether it works with a Linux kernel newer than, like, Linux 1.3 I don't know.
23:42 < qrvpzvb> can I disconnect a SATA disk while the system is up?
23:42 < autopsy> Elladan, yeah.
23:43 < Elladan> TheWild, my parents are using Mint on one computer and ChromeOS on the other, they seem happy.
23:43 < Elladan> TheWild, I'd recommend Chromebooks for non-technical people.
23:43 < djph> qrvpzvb: "depends"
23:44 < qrvpzvb> what on?
23:44 < MikeFromIT> what on?
23:44 < Elladan> qrvpzvb, whether your hardware is hotplug, for starters.
23:45 < qrvpzvb> well, how can I tell?
23:46 < Elladan> qrvpzvb, honestly you really can't. Just make sure you've unmounted etc. first and be prepared for disappointment.
23:47 < qrvpzvb> Elladan: what could even go wrong?
23:47 < Elladan> qrvpzvb, for unplug, the SATA controller might crash or something dumb like that. It's unlikely.
23:48 < qrvpzvb> Elladan: it's the Intel SATA controller, I don't think that's likely
23:48 < guideX> for some reason, my ntp isn't working
23:48 < Elladan> If you pull it out while the system is writing to it, many bad things might happen.
23:48 < lopid> that's what she said
23:49 < guideX> lopid, it can be effective though
23:49 < Elladan> Best to unmount first.
--- Log closed Thu Jun 14 00:00:57 2018