--- Log opened Thu Jun 14 00:00:57 2018
00:08 < TheWild> and what the hell that Windows requires drivers for wifi adapter? On Ubuntu it works out of the box.
00:09 < darkmeson> afair, all recent versions of the sata spec require hotplugging, but I can't say I've ever had a problem doing it on any revision
00:09 < guideX> what does it mean when ntpq -p output (under the when column) has -
00:11 < jim> TheWild, as you might know, ubuntu inherits a lot of stuff from debian, including the way debian builds kernels, they're configured to compile everything possible as drivers, then they're packaged with the kernel image
00:12 < darkmeson> A COW filesystem might behave extremely bad if you do it, but you run that risk every time the kernel OOPSes or the power goes out anyway
00:13 < TheWild> but Windows? Sir, this is Windows. Windows was famous for having out of the box support for various crazy hardware.
00:13 < darkmeson> s/COW filesystem/mounted COW filesystem/
00:13 < djph> TheWild: "Out of the box"
00:14 < djph> Windows is probably more famous for their rollercoaster release cycle, "wait til SP1", and "Embrace Extend Extinguish"
00:14 < rascul> get out of my box
00:14 < djph> rascul: funny, that's what she said last night...
00:14 < darkmeson> The Midori site says Debian has a packaged version, but I'm not seeing one in the testing repos even with "main contrib non-free". Am I missing something or is their information outdated?
00:15 < TheWild> oh, I remember funny issue when I was installing Windows 95. Installation was booted from CD. At some point of installation it needed to restart, but after restart it couldn't find drivers for CD-ROM, so it asked me to point to directory where drivers were, which were
00:15 < TheWild> on CD
00:16 < TheWild> (game is over. Format the disk, copy CD-ROM drivers to disk, boot installation again).
00:16 < darkmeson> I had that issue
00:17 < phogg> TheWild: you're supposed to copy the .inf to a floppy
00:17 < phogg> my favorite part of a Windows installer is the NT4 install routine where it gets to the "Detecting CPU architecture stage"
00:17 < bls> yeah, duh, everybody knew you always copied the cdrom drivers to the floppy, after moving highmem
00:18 < phogg> after a binary executable had been running for 5 minutes
00:18 < darkmeson> In fact, that's why I started installing DOS first, then  copying over the installation directory and doing the installation from there
00:18 < triceratux> darkmeson: i can see it in the webmorrors http://yandex-asia.archive.parrotsec.org/debian/pool/main/m/midori/
00:18 < phogg> darkmeson: if you were clever you did that. If you're clever you still do that with windows, only no DOS.
00:19 < Elladan> Windows is famous for coming with the computer when you buy it, with the right drivers installed already. Linux computers also have this property.
00:19 < darkmeson> I'm even more clever, because I haven't used Windows for more than basic testing in about a decade ;)
00:19 < n-iCe> Finally, my bluetooth headset is working, what a pain
00:20 < rascul> the best feature of win95 was that you could install linux instead
00:20 < domhnall> Foxboron: ok think im looking in right place now, how about burpsuite 1.7.34?
00:21 < Foxboron> domhnall: why did you move the conversation to ##linux?
00:21 < domhnall> oh shit
00:21 < domhnall> sorry
00:22 < domhnall> Foxboron: that was not intentional.
00:23 < Foxboron> domhnall: nps. But burpsuite has a restrictive license. so can't redistribute the binary
00:23 < Foxboron> so AUR
00:23 < domhnall> Ok.
00:23 < darkmeson> n-iCe: it was a lot easier before blueman went defunct
00:25 < darkmeson> Oh, it looks like someone must've resurrected it in the interim. Nice!
01:17 < phantomcircuit> the kernel seems to maintain all of these wireless regulatory rules
01:18 < phantomcircuit> they all seem insane, anybody know if there's a real reason for the kernel to enforce these rules?
01:18 < bls> phantomcircuit: if the kernel didn't, linux would be banned from supporting wireless cards in a lot of countries
01:19 < searedvandal> and that would be less than ideal
01:23 < sacules> i personally like my distros working with wifi out of the box
01:24 < phogg> I personally like to plug in a wire so my network isn't unreliable.
01:24 < searedvandal> same here. but sometimes that wireless is needed
01:25 < sacules> mostly if it's for somebody just getting into gnu/linux
01:25 < phogg> Speaking topically the alternative is to have what Intel used to provide: a proprietary userspace "management" daemon which enforces regulatory compliance rules. It was not fun and didn't work well.
01:28 < rjdp9736_> an interesting argument between Linus and Andy Tanenbaum https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/comp.os.minix/wlhw16QWltI%5B1-25%5D
01:29 < koala_man> a classic
01:29 < dgs> that the one from the 90s?
01:29 < rjdp9736_> yes!
01:29 < koala_man> "linux is obsolete", yes
01:29 < dgs> is tanebaum even still around?
01:29 < rjdp9736_> haha
01:30 < rjdp9736_> dgs, yes still whining
01:30 < dgs> i can see how he'd be a bit pissy after some kid designed a homebrew that wasn't as good as his "proper" one
01:30 < dgs> and that kids os went on to pretty much take over the world
01:34 < lupine> good old history: > As a result of my occupation, I think I know a bit about where operating are going in the next decade or so
01:34 < degva> hi all, is there a way to resend a received package to another server? meaning, say I have two servers (B and C), and every package I receive to B, C will also receive it.
01:34 < lupine> degva: which packaging system? apt, yum, etc?
01:35 < phogg> degva: the short answer is "of course"
01:35 < phogg> lupine: Oh? Care to share? Are they getting replaced by our new AI overlords?
01:35 < lupine> typically it will be easier to have a third machine locally that both A and B pull from
01:35 < degva> lupine: package received from another server, as like a ping
01:36 < lupine> ohhh, you mean packet?
01:36 < phogg> package != packet
01:36 < degva> packet, yes, sorry
01:36 < phogg> they're nearly the same thing in English but we're speaking computer here.
01:36 < lupine> yeah, you can use various services to do that, or iptables
01:36 < degva> haha
01:36 < lupine> I often use rinetd or socat if I just want to send the packets on to the second server, and am uninterested in processing them locally
01:36 < degva> oh right, iptables!
01:37 < degva> lupine: thank you :)
01:37 < lupine> np
01:37 < lupine> just don't ask me to draw up the iptables rules. I've not done that for ages :D
01:38 < degva> haha well, I've learned it on school, but I get the concept
01:45 < truthadjustr> when doing `cp` how do we tell if some bytes are still in cache, ie not yet written to disk?
01:46 < phogg> truthadjustr: you guess, or you run sync.
01:47 < truthadjustr> phogg: no /proc or /sys/ tells?
01:47 < bls> the overhead of even instrumenting something like that would be awful
01:48 < phogg> truthadjustr: there are and that's going to be slightly more successful
01:48 < phogg> truthadjustr: all you can do is flush *everything*, though. ANd *nothing* forces the disk to also flush its cache
01:49 < truthadjustr> phogg: already tried `sync`, still mdsum not matching..
01:49 < bls> what problem are you really trying to solve?
01:49 < truthadjustr> happens lots of times when i do `cp -av` .. the way i fixed it is cp individually each file
01:50 < phogg> truthadjustr: echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches ; blockdev --flushbufs /dev/your-device # there are some other things you can try, too
01:50 < truthadjustr> bls: `cp -av /mnt/stuff/ /home/john/stuff` produces md5sum mismatch for huge files (25G)
01:50 < phogg> truthadjustr: that should never, ever happen
01:51 < phogg> the userspace view of the filesystem is *consistent* even if the buffers are not flushed
01:51 < truthadjustr> after i found out a file is corrupted, i cp individually.. to fix it.
01:51 < bls> right, userspace has no clue where it's reading from
01:51 < phogg> truthadjustr: if that happens to you then you have a hardware problem. Write errors are occurring and nobody knows it.
01:51 < truthadjustr> event `sync` does not help
01:51 < phogg> bits being flipped on disk, or whatever
01:52 < bls> yeah, start triaging your drives and FSs, then memory
01:52 < phogg> truthadjustr: re-copying only solves it by luckily not failing that time
01:52 < truthadjustr> phogg: don't think so. If i cp invidivually, it is ok
01:52 < phogg> given that it happens to you for mass recursive copies I'll bet heat is a factor
01:52 < phogg> truthadjustr: Trust me, you *CANNOT* get your results without a hardware error.
01:53 < bls> cp/the FS/VFS/block layers don't magically slip into "best effort" mode just because it's been given more than one file to copy
01:54 < phogg> truthadjustr: have you looked at a SMART report lately?
01:54 < phogg> It may not be the disk, but it may be the disk.
01:54 < truthadjustr> phogg: will look into it..
01:55 < truthadjustr> phogg: the source is a mounted ntfs usb drive
01:55 < bls> heh, even more suspect
01:55 < truthadjustr> i hope it's not my thinkpad nix
01:55 < phogg> truthadjustr: you may also want to try the program badblocks
01:57 < ryouma> when i mv a file from dir a to dir b, the ctime gets updated.  i did not expect this.  has this always been the case?  shouldn't mv that is not across fses preserve all 4 file times (abcm)?
01:58 < phogg> ryouma: ctime is change time, which is change in *metadata*, contrast mtime which is change in file bytes.
01:58 < phogg> ryouma: the file's parent dir is part of its metadata
01:59 < phogg> most filesystems don't support btime in any case
01:59 < ryouma> weird.  where is ctime stored?  inode or dir?  and why is that metadata?  is grandparent metadata?
01:59 < phogg> ryouma: inode
01:59 < ryouma> 16:59 <phogg> most filesystems don't support btime in any case -- ext4 does, even as of a while back.  but the kernel does not until recently.
02:00 < phogg> ryouma: mv is basically just link+unlink. Adding link references to the inode bumps ctime. At least that's how I understand it.
02:00 < ryouma> the inode links to the dir?  idgi.
02:00 < ryouma> oh i see the adding of the link does it.  but i thought it added it to the dir.
02:01 < phogg> ryouma: pretty sure the file's inode still gets updated. I am not a kernel hacker, but I guess a quick trip through the vfs source would make this clear.
02:04 < ryouma> i look at c maybe once every 15 years
02:06 < phantomcircuit> bls, i guess, but the NO-IR flags seems to be beyond what the fcc actually requires
02:07 < ryouma> ctime annoys me.  it is almost useful.  but basically not for almost anything.
02:07 < ryouma> inb4 hence btime
02:19 < jamiejackson> i folks. i'm automating a vpn connect with expect, but it's exiting immediately, before it waits for me to authenticate with mfa. it should wait for the highlighted part: https://gist.github.com/jamiejackson/caa42fe7c36b0373e572fbf74d463a8d#file-expect-L18
02:20 < jamiejackson> happen to know what i'm doing wrong?
02:21 < jamiejackson> i forgot about autoexpect. i'll try that first
02:30 < jamiejackson> autoexpect gave me an ending of `expect eof`, but i think that's premature. i think i want to ignore that (if that makes sense). possible?
02:32 < jamiejackson> i'm also curious why this channel is so quiet. it's usually a ridiculous torrent.
02:33 < cmj> lean back
02:34 < cmj> you can also try ##networking
02:36 < darkmeson> jamiejackson: afair, it's expecting eof because the program hung up
02:37 < jamiejackson> interactively, it waits for me to deal with mfa on my cell phone, then it continues to "STATUS::Login succeed", etc. any clue what the difference might be, darkmeson
02:39 < darkmeson> That was mostly gibberish to me, and I don't see anything in the backbuffer offering further explanation
02:40 < BenderRodriguez> How cryptographically secure are LUKS encrypted file systems
02:40 < darkmeson> If you're running autoexpect to create a profile, it's obviously going to be entirely interactive because it has to see how you want it to answer at the different prompts
02:41 < darkmeson> afair, it will end and 'expect eof' if the program you were running exited or you typed 'exit'
02:41 < koala_man> BenderRodriguez: highly
02:42 < BenderRodriguez> koala_man: I've been doing some reading and I found a few that reference GPU based brute force attacks that can comprimise LUKS passphrases
02:42 < BenderRodriguez> in light of this, is it a useless endeavour to use it?
02:43 < jamiejackson> there's something different when running this with expect/autoexpect than when i run it as a human, darkmeson. that's what i meant. i don't know why [auto]expect bails out at that point.
02:43 < darkmeson> If that's not what you want, then run autoexpect by itself (no arguments), run everything you want to run, THEN type exit and insert your own conditional logic if necessary
02:45 < kerframil> BenderRodriguez: no. in short, employ a strong passphrase (obviously) and argon2 as your key derivation function.
02:45 < koala_man> BenderRodriguez: all disk encryption systems can be broken with brute force attacks, the point is that it takes forever
02:45 < darkmeson> BenderRodriguez: look at the tail end of cryptsetup --help. It uses fairly strong aes crypto with fairly strong sha hashing by default
02:45 < jamiejackson> darkmeson. thanks. trying...
02:45 < koala_man> what's the current default?
02:45 < kerframil> BenderRodriguez: argon2 is designed so as to render GPU attacks slow
02:46 < kerframil> koala_man: it's argon2i for LUKS2
02:46 < koala_man> nice
02:46 < kerframil> koala_man: and pbkdf2 for LUKS1. you can you check your defaults with cryptsetup --help.
02:47 < darkmeson> BenderRodriguez: If you want to worry about something, worry about Android 7+'s switch to file-based encryption
02:47 < darkmeson> It in theory has the same serious flaws as encfs and friends
02:50 < ryouma> what flaws?
02:50 < ryouma> i mean i know it's not widely used
02:50 < ryouma> does encfs have i mean
02:51 < darkmeson> https://defuse.ca/audits/encfs.htm
02:51 < ryouma> is argon2 default?
02:53 < darkmeson> There's also a big, fat warning with further reading presented when you install encfs on a Debian-like distro, I believe
02:55 < darkmeson> ryouma: as I said earlier, check cryptsetup --help
02:55 < darkmeson> As far as defaults in general go, the sooner you stop relying on them, the safer you'll be
03:09 < nekoseam> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8lx1rm/ththanks_aptitude/ How can people think they can fool anybody like this
03:10 < nekoseam> Ubuntu user claims that trying to install steam removed a ton of programs. When in reality it's literally the output when you run aptitude autoremove --dry-run
03:11 < mgolisch> no idea
03:11 < mgolisch> people on reddit are weird
03:11 < ALowther> I created a partition, then I created a file system for the partition. Then I deleted the partition, then recreated it and the file system was still there. How do I delete the file system with the partition?
03:12 < koala_man> ALowther: you can't delete it, you can only overwrite it
03:13 < ALowther> koala_man: So if I create a new filesystem, it will for sure overwrite it?
03:13 < ALowther> (On the same partition)
03:13 < koala_man> ALowther: yes
03:13 < ALowther> koala_man: Okay, thanks. fdisk just says there is another file system there, but doesn't say it will overwrite it, so I wasn't sure.
03:13 < koala_man> but it won't go through and overwrite every single bit on the partition, only what the fs needs for its own bookkeeping
03:26 < nekoseam> sigh
03:29 < truthadjustr> i think, the cause of the `cp` error from a mounted ntfs usb drive is: `mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt`
03:30 < truthadjustr> i did `ntfs-3g /dev/sdb1 /mnt` and the cp is now accurate...
03:31 < truthadjustr> i thought, using the `mount` was reliable. I guess, `ntfs-3g` should be used for ntfs
03:39 < kerframil> mount -t ntfs-3g
03:40 < lnnb> ewwww
03:40 < dannylee> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5jvUXij7nU
03:40 < lnnb> hello daniel
03:40 < dannylee> linux is really great
03:41 < dubhdara> what flavor are you running of linux
03:41 < dannylee> openSuSe
03:41 < dubhdara> manjaro budgie here
03:41 < dannylee> c0000l
03:42 < dubhdara> Suse is good too
03:42 < dannylee> i use openSuSe for over ten years
03:42 < dannylee> i like it
03:43 < dubhdara> which version  leap or tumbleweed
03:43 < dannylee> tumle weed
03:43 < dubhdara> the latest and greatest
03:43 < dannylee> that way i have gnome and kde an lxde
03:44 < dannylee> i just install every thing
03:44 < dubhdara> well if it works
03:44 < dannylee> and it works
03:44 < dannylee> i have a graphical root tooop
03:45 < dannylee> open SuSE is really great..no mistakes
03:45 < dannylee> i like Gnome
03:46 < dubhdara> i tried it a while back but the leap version it was to stuffy
03:46 < Dreaman> open suse kde
03:46 < Dreaman> not base gnome
03:46 < dubhdara> might have to try the tumbleweed branch
03:46 < dannylee> i all ready did that
03:47 < Dreaman> fedora base
03:47 < dannylee> i open KDE just for the settings
03:47 < dannylee> ok i still have fedora on my other machine
03:47 < dannylee> 27
03:48 < dannylee> i still love redhat
03:48 < Dreaman> i love debian base systems
03:48 < dubhdara> fedora seems like it went downhill after removing core
03:48 < Dreaman> easy
03:48 < dannylee> ok its write for you
03:48 < dubhdara> i love the CentOS though
03:48 < dannylee> redhat
03:48 < dannylee> but no software
03:49 < Dreaman> nikolov@ubuntu-ivan:~$ inxi -F
03:49 < Dreaman> System:    Host: ubuntu-ivan Kernel: 4.17.1-041701-generic x86_64 bits: 64
03:49 < Dreaman>            Desktop: Gnome 3.28.1 Distro: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS
03:49 < Dreaman> simple
03:49 < dannylee> i have a copy of gnome ubuntu
03:49 < dannylee> as a back up
03:50 < dannylee> if i get piss i might install it
03:50 < dannylee> suse is really the best
03:51 < mgolisch> no idea, not used that in atleast a decade
03:54 < dubhdara> whoami
03:54 < lnnb> u r dubhdara
03:55 < ryouma> -> ##philosophy
03:56 < ansraliant> TIL there is a philosophy channel
03:56 < ansraliant> and they are talking about civ6. Seems about right
04:00 < fundies> yo what linus' cell i need help fixing linux
04:01 < esselfe> 418-555-3264
04:01 < Pentode> 867-5309
04:01 < lnnb> niieeiiieeiien
04:01 < nchambers>  jenni jenni
04:04 < updated> fundies: if you mention his name three times in front of the mirror he'll show up
04:06 < Pentode> that just might be more frightening than bloody mary
04:06 < fundies> https://pastebin.com/raw/rLVYY3gc can anyone here help me debug this? I tried asking #radeon but its been fairly silient for hours
04:06 < fundies> those erors fully lock up my computer to the point it cant even reboot
04:07 < fundies> yet strangely I can ssh
04:07 < fundies> I've seen some posts about it on tracker but no real fixes
04:10 < ansraliant> I'm no expect on amd cards and stuff. But it seems there is some problems communicating with it. I know this might sound cliche, but have you tried reinstalling the driver?
04:11 < fundies> ansraliant, I've upgraded to 4.17 to test it so basically
04:12 < fundies> ansraliant, this only happens under certain conditions
04:12 < fundies> i cant really narrow them but i can trigger it reliably
04:22 < ollien> I might be going nuts, but I have authorized_keys with permissions 600, and .ssh with permissions 700, and I still can't ssh in with my public key. I'm not really sure what else to try. Can someone help me out?
04:23 < kerframil> ollien: use ssh -v, and read the log data from sshd
04:24 < ollien> kerframil: Yeah, I have. It offers the public key, then authentication fails
04:25 < kerframil> ollien: so you've read the log messages produced by sshd as well?
04:25 < ansraliant> fundies: the only error logs you have is that dmesg?
04:25 < ollien> ah sorry, misread your message. Looking into sshd logs now
04:26 < Elladan> ollien, how about the permissions on your home dir.
04:26 < fundies> ansraliant, correct
04:26 < kerframil> ollien: the log facility for these messages is typically auth or authpriv
04:26 < ollien> Elladan: Well, this is the funny thing. The .ssh folder is symlinked to another location on disk
04:26 < ollien> must that containing directory also have 700 perms?
04:27 < Elladan> ollien, I'm not sure that ssh will be willing to follow symlinks at all
04:27 < Elladan> ollien, what permissions does it have?
04:27 < Elladan> And also your home dir?
04:27 < ollien> Elladan: the home dir is 744
04:28 < ollien> the .ssh dir is 700
04:28 < ansraliant> fundies: I found this https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98874. Maybe you already read it. But if not, maybe it helps
04:28 < Elladan> ollien, try 755 for home
04:28 < kerframil> ollien: 744 for a dir is very dubious. yes, try 755. and read the logs still.
04:28 < ollien> err, sorry, 755 is a typo
04:28 < ollien> *744 was a typo
04:29 < ollien> kerframil: yep. sorry, got sidetracked. Looks like it doesn't like the perms of the directory holding the symlink pointer
04:29 < fundies> ansraliant, ive read evever search result for those errors
04:29 < ollien> gonna try 700ing that
04:29 < fundies> thanks though
04:29 < kerframil> ollien: interesting. what does it report exactly?
04:29 < Elladan> ollien, also you didn't say what the permissions are on your key.
04:29 < ollien> Elladan: locally? 600
04:29 < ollien> kerframil: Jun 14 02:29:48 planet-express-ship sshd[1527]: Authentication refused: bad ownership or modes for directory /home/nick
04:30 < ollien> which ... that's frustrating
04:30 < Elladan> Is it owned by you? :-)
04:30 < ollien> well here's the peculiar thing
04:30 < ollien> I'm trying to ssh a user 'git', and symlink the .ssh directory to a .ssh directory within /home/nick
04:30 < ollien> but I imagine that might be futile
04:30 < ollien> given what I'm seeing now
04:30 < ollien> so yes, each /home/ directory is owned by their respective users
04:31 < ollien> but git does not own /home/nick, no
04:31 < kerframil> ollien: more the point, if the user git doesn't own .ssh, then a mode of 700 renders it non-traversible
04:31 < kerframil> more to*
04:31 < ollien> kerframil: git does own .ssh
04:31 < ollien> and its parent directory
04:31 < kerframil> ollien: oh, I see
04:32 < kerframil> ollien: it might help to clarify if you pastebin: stat /{,home,home/nick,home/nick/.ssh}
04:33 < ollien> kerframil: https://gist.github.com/ollien/43b12ad51d70822e1d58f5ea1d97945a
04:36 < kerframil> ollien: it's important to walk the entire directory chain (gogs and gogs/git are missing).
04:37 < oryois> Today Challenge : It seems to be a complicated cipher, can you break it? https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hubchallenges/crypto/genfei.zip , First Solver prize : licenses for (Burpsuite,ida7pro,binaryninja,avast antivirus,200$ amazon gift card)
04:37 < kerframil> ollieh: anyway, my theory is that sshd will complain if any directory in said chain is not owned by the user that you are authenticating as
04:37 < kerframil> sorry, that was for ollien
04:37 < ollien> kerframil: yeah, that was my theory
04:37 < ollien> https://gist.github.com/ollien/9d4f07d26fd723bff7bf83438e4f33ee
04:38 < ollien> oh well. I'll find some way to do this
04:38 < ollien> ...tomorrow. The sleepiness is def impacting my thinking about this
04:38 < kerframil> ollien: you could disable StrictModes just for the git user. I would recommend any other approach that does not entail disabling StrictModes, however.
04:39 < kerframil> ollien: man sshd_config
04:39 < ollien> kerframil: yeah, I have some ideas. It's just not the most productive time of night :)
04:39 < ollien> thanks :)
04:41 < kerframil> ollien: actually, not quite "any directory" but you get the idea. anything from the designated home directory downwards.
05:24 < darkmeson> fundies: I don't have issues with them on my radeon systems, but a server system that has a generic gpu that uses the ast module can't cope with 4.15+ either
05:26 < darkmeson> It's fairly common in supermicro systems, so maybe the combination of the two will yield better search results
05:37 < sinatrablue> hmm now that i have this linux box setup, what should i do with it?
05:39 < Bashing-om> sinatrablue: linux is a mighty big hammer, how you swing it is up to you :P
05:40 < darkmeson> The sad part is, the OS doesn't really matter much anymore
05:41 < darkmeson> They're all pwned in the same ways by the same web browsers having the same lax security and poor isolation models
05:41 < fundies> darkmeson, this only happens with games as far as i can tell
05:42 < fundies> darkmeson, and i need amd dc stuffs to run thisc game
05:42 < Elladan> Android has the right idea about isolation IMO.
05:43 < Elladan> Nobody cares about users if you're the only user, but you don't want your web browser to be able to access your password manager.
05:43 < sinatrablue> Bashing-om: this box has more than enough power for a webserver, but probably not a good idea on a residential connection
05:43 < darkmeson> fundies: Then I'd try to rule out thermal issues if I were you. Set up lm-sensors if you haven't and see what 'sensors' has to say
05:43 < Elladan> sinatrablue, what do you want to do?
05:44 < fundies> darkmeson, I can trigger it from certain effects in game
05:44 < fundies> its bug in code for sure
05:44 < sinatrablue> Elladan: not sure, i have this 1800x computer but not much to do with it
05:44 < sinatrablue> looking for things to do
05:44 < darkmeson> fundies: you said you could keep ssh access, so you should be able to do 'watch sensors' in a ssh session
05:45 < fundies> darkmeson, i know its not a temp issue
05:45 < darkmeson> Elladan: Android's APP isolation is good, but it's NETWORK isolation is beyond horrible
05:46 < Elladan> darkmeson, I didn't say it was the right implementation :-D
05:46 < fundies> darkmeson, I can boot up game press button to render the 1 effect and itll crash
05:46 < fundies> or i can play for hours without that effect
05:47 < darkmeson> They don't want you to have root, but also don't want you to have access to the firewall features every other OS has, and they don't even fence apps off from network access except via a proxy when a proxy is set
05:47 < Dagmar> You don't need access to the firewall
05:47 < Rainb> help
05:47 < Dagmar> 99% of the users will just _screw everything up_ anyway
05:47 < Rainb> my enabled systemctl service never runs at startup
05:47 < Rainb> https://pastebin.com/SK2p7sRx
05:47 < Rainb> why is this?
05:48 < Rainb> at boot-time*
05:48 < darkmeson> fundies: It might be a broken GL stack. Is this a wine game?
05:48 < Dagmar> ...and if you're running an app that's going to talk to hosts on the network against your will, it's time to start questioning why the hell you're downloading sketchy APKs from untrustworthy sources
05:49 < fundies> darkmeson, yes
05:49 < darkmeson> Dagmar: even F-Droid apps help themselves to the network without asking
05:49 < Dagmar> So what
05:49 < Dagmar> If you installed an app, and it uses the network, you either know this and are fine with it, or you have made a terrible mistake
05:50 < fundies> darkmeson, its overwatch specifically
05:50 < darkmeson> The user is supposed to be able to have absolute control over their own device. It's silly to have to work around such an obvious and contrived flaw with VPN trickery and so forth
05:50 < fundies> darkmeson, others can run it without theses crashes just have fps dips
05:51 < Elladan> Android isn't built around the idea that the user owns their device.
05:51 < fundies> darkmeson, this bug seems related to amgdgpu driver only
05:51 < Dagmar> Incorrect
05:52 < Dagmar> Android is built around the idea that the user owns their device, but that they need the operating system to help them with technical decisions
05:52 < darkmeson> Elladan: If they don't people disabling network functionality to get around the ads, they need to make the apps check for network access and refuse to work if they can't connect. But I'm sure we both know why it is the way it is.
05:53 < Dagmar> It's the reason the permissions framework keeps getting more and more granular, and doesn't show you things like "snmp_mem_t (a)llow or (d)eny?"
05:53 < Dagmar> It shows you things like "requests access to the camera" and "requests access to your browser history"
05:53 < Elladan> darkmeson, there are various reasons why it works that way. It isn't just the ads: you don't have to go far to find people who argue that users should never have root or bootloader access to any device.
05:53 < Dagmar> Clear, human-readable concepts that are easy to grasp.
05:53 < Elladan> However, this is not really relevant to the question of what a good security model would be like.
05:54 < Dagmar> Users aren't allowed access to an unrestricted security context under normal operating conditions, because if the users can get at that, someone's going to find a way to trick the users into giving their program access to that unrestricted context... at which point the game is over
05:54 < Elladan> I'm sure we'd agree that an ideal setup would give you effective app isolation, and also good tools for detecting and controlling network access.
05:54 < darkmeson> fundies: Presumably it's running under Wine, and Wine has a pretty good debugging framework you might be able to make use of. Do a web search for WINEDEBUG= and/or inquire in #winehq. They should be able to help you out (although it might be a few hours since it's late for most of them)
05:55 < Elladan> Dagmar, that's... not the real reason.
05:55 < Dagmar> Yes, that is the real reason
05:55 < Elladan> It's not, and I'm sure you know that.
05:55 < Dagmar> It *is*.
05:55 < Dagmar> THe moment some malware gains the ability to write to the flash storage directly, you can't trust the device anymore
05:56 < Dagmar> You're basically f**ked at that point
05:56 < fundies> darkmeson, i asked there and they pointed me towards my gou driver
05:56 < fundies> gpu*
05:56 < fundies> darkmeson, i think its their stance that no matter how bad their code is it shouldnt crash the driver
05:56 < lnnb> do i have malware if some weird cloud backup service starts every time i mtp an audio file to my phone?
05:56 < fundies> :P
05:56 < Dagmar> Just the same as when some worm gains root access on your server, you are now _done_ and the only safe way to restore verity to the system is to _restore from backups_
05:57 < darkmeson> Elladan: they intentionally removed the inet permission without any rhyme or reason given, really. That shows EXACTLY what they after. Data exfiltration to the max
05:57 < darkmeson> Steal anything that isn't bolted down, and make sure not to provide even the most basic OS constructs that might get in the way of it
05:57 < kopper> Dagmar: Provided that your backups don't have the same worm
05:57 < Dagmar> ..but at least on a PC you can pop the top, boot trusted media, and be at least somewhat assured that no one's started modifying EEPROM BIOS images for the malware on a widespread basis yet
05:57 < Dagmar> You do NOT have that same flexibility on a phone
05:58 < Dagmar> Users brick their s**t all the time as it is just trying to sideload APKs
05:58 < Dagmar> Heck I've personally seen two pieces of malware (CHinese app stores, go figure) that would deliberately erase the flash if you tried to remove them
05:59 < Dagmar> I.e., a _very_ bricked phone
05:59 < darkmeson> fundies: well, rightfully, if it IS the driver crashing, the driver has bugs. The right WINEDEBUG= might help you figure out if it's the driver or the lib stack though
06:01 < darkmeson> Alternatively, some distros have wine packages and 'wine-development'. Switching between the two might also help determine the nature of the bug
06:01 < Dagmar> One of those two devices was restorable because the chipset actually has a not-quite-documented method of booting off the microSD card
06:01 < Dagmar> The other one had to go back to the factory
06:03 < darkmeson> It's possible with a lot of devices if you know which connections to short and whatnot, but therein lies the problem
06:04 < Dagmar> Dude
06:04 < Dagmar> When was the last time you opened a cell phone?
06:04 < Dagmar> This is no longer something one can work on with a 15w soldering pencil
06:04 < darkmeson> It's rarely documented and very time-consuming to track down, even for someone with the right skill set
06:04 < Dagmar> I have to use a freakin' jeweler's loupe for these things on the regular
06:04 < Elladan> It's not particularly difficult to build a secure reflash facility into a device, if you actually cared about these sorts of problems.
06:05 < darkmeson> Even then they're liable to end up with a pile of bricks before they get it right, and it's just not worth it
06:05 < Dagmar> ...and it's just WILDLY beyond reasonable to expect random users to open their $800 phone and start cutting pins and so forth
06:05 < Elladan> However, it's basically irrelevant since hostile APKs don't have much trouble getting root regardless through local privilege escalation bugs.
06:06 < Dagmar> Elladan: Really.  Then explain why it's only now there with Android 7 devices
06:06 < Dagmar> ...and why it's only _recently_ come about for PCs in the form of SecureBoot and UEFI
06:06 < Elladan> The point of not giving the user access to the device is all about walled gardens and "trusted" software e.g. DRM and related stuff, that is to prevent the user from exfiltrating their own data.
06:06 < darkmeson> There's no cutting really, just a shorting here and there
06:07 < Dagmar> Bullshit.
06:07 < Dagmar> Users have the access they need to use the device to it's fullest.  Advanced users can get away with replacing the OS with some third-party thing like LineageOS.
06:08 < darkmeson> Elladan: they're now baking the official Facebook app into roms and you can't disable it without using adb
06:08 < Dagmar> The vast majority of these users can't even flash an image onto a thumbdrive, let alone pick the right firmware for their device
06:08 < Triffid_Hunter> Dagmar: I've had cyanogen (now lineage) on every smartphone I've ever owned.. stock roms never give me the options I want
06:08 < darkmeson> If you're keeping track, that means there's not just one, but two different frameworks that have been caught red-handed stealing location data 24/7, among other things
06:09 < darkmeson> And they can't be disabled without special know-how. How is that in the user's best interests, exactly?
06:09 < Triffid_Hunter> I always keep an eye on the location icon in my status bar, if it's on and I don't know why, I start force stopping stuff until it goes away
06:10 < Dagmar> Triffid_Hunter: I've been with sprint for some time, and their "special sauce" is horrible.   I'm actually about to go back to using my S5 because this S7 can't be properly unlocked for a new image
06:10 < Dagmar> It actually runs worse than the S5
06:10 < Elladan> Triffid_Hunter, imagine an app that only turned on location when you weren't looking.
06:10 < Dagmar> darkmeson: What "special know how" does it take to touch the GPS icon on the notification tray to turn it off?
06:10 < Dagmar> That switch can not be overridden.
06:11 < kirk781> The official Facebook app is cancer
06:11 < Triffid_Hunter> Dagmar: I'm gonna get a xiaomi mix2 soon.. it has /all/ the radio bands and the lineage folks tell me it works great
06:11 < Dagmar> kirk781: And fire is hot
06:11 < kirk781> I can disable it on my phone but not remove is directly
06:11 < T-Rog> The Arch wiki's guide on getting joysticks working is pretty confusing. Can anyone help me out?
06:11 < Dagmar> Triffid_Hunter: I've considered it, but... China
06:11 < dgs> Dagmar: for what it's worth, I've recently gone back to my s5 after dropping my s7.... they are still really good phones
06:11 < kirk781> For some reason, Samsung thought integrating Flipboard will also be a good thing
06:12 < Dagmar> Yeah, I'm more than slightly disgusted that substantially better hardware performs worse than a model two generations old, just because of vendor crap and TouchWiz overcompensating
06:12 < darkmeson> Dagmar: any time it's enabled, those frameworks are logging and reporting back
06:13 < Dagmar> darkmeson: Prove it
06:13 < darkmeson> btw, in the off chance this is news to anyone here. https://www.wired.com/2013/03/anonymous-phone-location-data/
06:13 < Dagmar> darkmeson: I have spent pretty much the last two years crawling up Androids sphincter all the way through to the mouth
06:14 < kirk781> Why do companies spend so much resources on developing 'extra' apps for their phones when they know that all it would do is delay actual OS upgrades in the future?
06:14 < Dagmar> This on top of 20+ years of using Slackware and several other Linux distros
06:14 < kirk781> Dagmar, what's your favorite distro?
06:14 < Dagmar> I decided it was time to see where Android had gotten to, so I got up to speed properly
06:14 < fundies> darkmeson, i logged the mesa from run to crash n its 40mb text file lol
06:14 < kirk781> And what distro caused you to pull your hairs off your head?
06:14 < Dagmar> kirk781: Whichever one isn't pissing me off at the moment.
06:14 < fundies> darkmeson, heres tail of it https://pastebin.com/raw/6nte2a2M
06:15 < Dagmar> There's distros that are good for some things and not others
06:15 < darkmeson> fundies: you did WINEDEBUG=-all didn't you? :)
06:15 < fundies> darkmeson, nah
06:15 < darkmeson> Dagmar: you can find it for yourself with a simple web search
06:15 < fundies> darkmeson, i did mesagl=dump
06:16 < Dagmar> darkmeson: I can also find articles about mind control sattelites and detailed lists of the chemicals they put in jet fuel to pacify the populace
06:16 < Dagmar> It doesn't make these things real
06:16 < ayecee> that's what they want you to think
06:16 < Dagmar> heh
06:17 < Dagmar> Go spend just six months tearing apart an AOSP build and a Lineage build, until you can reliably swap out the kernel and init
06:17 < Dagmar> Then come tell us how much automatic logging you found
06:18 < Dagmar> All the apps that log or report GPS information _say so outright_
06:18 < Dagmar> Just enabling GPS doesn't actually do *anything*
06:18 < Dagmar> That chip doesn't get woken up until it's actually being queried for location data
06:18 < Dagmar> ...or at least, that part of the chipset
06:19 < Dagmar> That information isn't automatically logged anywhere either unless the app requesting it has set something up to do so
06:19 < poutine> A lot of apps have valid uses for GPS but have been shown to abuse it outside of its valid use
06:19 < Dagmar> Some stuff _might_ get leaked into logcat, but that's about as reliable as claiming that people are using the dmesg ringbuffer to spy on you
06:19 < darkmeson> Dagmar: baiting doesn't work on me
06:20 < Dagmar> darkmeson: Apparently facts don't work on you, either
06:20 < Dagmar> Go learn some Java and write some apps so you'll learn how these mechanisms actually work
06:20 < darkmeson> either you care to know, or you stick your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen
06:20 < darkmeson> you'll probably be fine either way, unless you become a someone
06:20 < Dagmar> I have stuck my head so far up Lineage's butt I could see what it had for lunch
06:20 < Dagmar> I am not a man who sticks his head in sand
06:20 < Triffid_Hunter> Dagmar: heh I live in china.. fwiw xiaomi is trying really hard to be a good company, but there's plenty of reasons I choose phones I can put lineage on and they're not unique to this country :P
06:21 < fhdrin>  
06:21 < Dagmar> Triffid_Hunter: Ah okay.  If you're in China I guess there's no point in worrying too much about whatever games the gov't might get up to.  They'll have plenty of avenues other than just the phone
06:21 < darkmeson> Dagmar: Or maybe YOU should gain root, install some Xposed modules, and see what your apps are REALLY doing
06:21 < Dagmar> Are you slow?
06:22 < ayecee> no need for that
06:22 < Dagmar> Dude, my S5 runs a build of Lineage that was pretty heavily modified, by _me_
06:22 < Dagmar> I am not joking when I say I have looked into this stuff _in detail_
06:22 < ayecee> it's reasonable to doubt internet credentials
06:22 < darkmeson> I can guarantee you'll be shocked at the lengths many common apps go to to exfiltrate your data, even after you've denied those permissions you think save you
06:22 < Dagmar> I've spent 20+ dealing with Slackware and having to build most of the fancy stuff myself, including replacing and debugging kernels and practically every binary on the system
06:23 < Dagmar> Android was _not_ some great stretch
06:23 < Dagmar> I wanted to know how it worked, so I opened it up and looked inside
06:24 < Dagmar> Now i've got detailed reasons to chew on some Samsung people if I ever get ahold of them, and I already knew Sprint were idiots
06:24  * darkmeson really hates that kids get summer off
06:24 < Dagmar> Their "connection optimizer" app is literally snake oil
06:25 < ayecee> well, figuratively
06:25 < Dagmar> ayecee: No, the new OED listing.  ;)
06:25 < Dagmar> It can _optionally_ report back when the signal goes to hell, but it actually doesn't
06:26 < ayecee> the one where literally doesn't mean literally anymore
06:26 < Dagmar> Precisely
06:26 < Dagmar> The app just doesn't _do_ anything useful and sucks up a service slot
06:26 < storge> ah, android apps
06:27 < Dagmar> Android already handles the hand-offs between wifi and 3g/lte/whatever and has done so fairly well since before they decided they needed to invent such a silly thing
06:27  * storge kisses his hand like a chef
06:28 < Dagmar> 'cuz basically... Linux kernel and networking already solved these problems quite a while back
06:29 < Triffid_Hunter> Dagmar: I always enable the aggressive handoff option in developer settings.. stops it having to reconnect to 3g/4g when wifi drops out
06:29 < Dagmar> IT works
06:30 < Dagmar> Probably annoys the carriers a bit, but it's a miniscule load on their end
06:30 < hyperair> Triffid_Hunter: o/ you use lineage too? what's good to get these days? my phone's got one foot in the grave with lineage dropping support for it.
06:31 < Dagmar> I'm eyeing the Moto X lines and OnePlus for various hardware reasons
06:31 < Dagmar> It's very clear the workload I'm asking of the device needs 4Gb RAM or more
06:31 < Triffid_Hunter> hyperair: got my eye on xiaomi mix2, waiting for next payday
06:32 < hyperair> Triffid_Hunter: ah, xiaomi after all then. i had my eyes on the xiaomi mi 5 or mi 6
06:32  * hyperair has small hands
06:32 < Dagmar> hyperair: At this point you might consider doing the same thing I am... just stalking the various cell enthusiast sites for whose new shiny runs Lineage well, and work backwards from there
06:32 < Triffid_Hunter> hyperair: mix2 has /all/ the radio bands and official lineage support
06:33 < hyperair> Dagmar: sounds good. i've been stalking download.lineageos.org and working backward from there
06:33 < hyperair> Triffid_Hunter: but it's a 6" phone, no?
06:33 < Triffid_Hunter> I'm not terribly pleased about no SD card slot and no headphone port though, but they seem to be increasingly rare on modern phones :/
06:33 < hyperair> urgh
06:33 < hyperair> i do like my headphone port
06:33 < Triffid_Hunter> hyperair: yeah but that's no problem for me, my handspan is 25cm :P
06:33 < hyperair> naise
06:34 < Dagmar> I can do without the headphone port, but without a slot there needs to be 64Gb-128Gb storage, just to keep up with what I've got
06:34 < darkmeson> Not really
06:34 < hyperair> Dagmar: true that. i need some extra storage for ebooks too
06:34 < Triffid_Hunter> Dagmar: it comes in 64/128/256G internal storage variants, there's also a 8G ram option with the 128G storage
06:34 < Dagmar> I actually encoded several hundred of my own CDs
06:34 < hyperair> o okay 256GB ought to be enough for anybody </s>
06:34 < Dagmar> There's no real sense in streaming that all the time.  It'd be a waste of bandwidth
06:35 < Dagmar> 48Gb of the 64Gb SD I have are just those mp3s
06:35 < hyperair> i think it should be enough for me too, but i always hit the storage limit somehow or other
06:35 < Triffid_Hunter> Dagmar: yeah I always did my own encoding back when CDs/DVDs were a thing.. I like my compressed music in ogg vorbis VBR rather than mp3 ;)
06:35 < hyperair> yeah vorbis vbr is great
06:35 < Dagmar> 2Gb of it is an image that sometimes even works that I'm trying to use to be able to boot PCs off the phone
06:36 < Triffid_Hunter> I have a 64G SD in my current phone, it's pretty full.. having a torrent client on my phone probably doesn't help with that though ;)
06:36 < Dagmar> Triffid_Hunter: I went back and re-encoded about 200 of them after LAME added the new vbr mechanisms
06:36 < darkmeson> hyperair: it probably is if you're trusting it at an appropriate level
06:36 < hyperair> darkmeson: trusting what?
06:36 < hyperair> darkmeson: my phone? i don't trust it enough to stick ssh keys on
06:36 < Triffid_Hunter> Dagmar: heh did you run into the thing where lots of players can't work out the length with vbr mp3? pretty sure ogg just lists it in metadat
06:36 < Dagmar> I was already telling it to be as accurate as possible, so they werne't exactly small mp3s
06:37 < Dagmar> I've seen a few.  I think you're right about the length being written as a field in a metadata tag\
06:41 < darkmeson> hyperair: this was kind of the point. there's only so many mp3s you can listen to, and they can't be trusted for much else
06:42 < darkmeson> Tablets lacking a cell modem, maybe. not phones
06:42 < hyperair> darkmeson: true that
06:43 < hyperair> darkmeson: but i do play some mobile games with loads of downloaded media
06:43 < hyperair> darkmeson: and i do store a pretty large collection of epubs on my phone
06:44 < hyperair> plus mainstream apps like facebook, whatsapp, chrome, etc all get heavier over time
06:44 < Dagmar> I occasionally use mine like a portable data safe
06:44 < darkmeson> You don't need them
06:44 < Dagmar> ...which is part of what got me started messing with the software to make it present itself as a removeable drive to boot PCs
06:45 < Dagmar> It's _slow_ but at least marginally useful for hasty forensics
06:45 < darkmeson> There are lightweight webview wrappers around most services in F-Droid, and they notify you all the same
06:45 < hyperair> darkmeson: that's arguable
06:46 < Dagmar> Facebook's web notifications are actually notably less useful than the app
06:46 < hyperair> whatsapp lives on the phone, so it's not like you can have a light webview wrapper unless you have a phone acting as a server for it stashed somewhere
06:46 < Dagmar> ...and the app is a terrible example of why you don't try and reinvent push notifications on your own
06:46 < darkmeson> You ARE aware of the plethora of USB exploits, right?
06:46 < hyperair> darkmeson: eh use a usb condom and you're fine
06:47 < hyperair> sorry i meant usb fast charge adapter
06:47 < Dagmar> I would not call a single PoC a "plethora"
06:47 < hyperair> the cheapo things that short data pins together
06:47 < darkmeson> Plugging a phone into any and every computer might not be the best idea, especially given the usage and the many ways it could already be compromised
06:48 < Dagmar> Also, the vuln for that PoC was patched some months back
06:48 < Dagmar> Do you typically try to boot a PC from external media by plugging it into the thing while it's still on?
06:48 < Dagmar> 'cuz that's not really how that works, man
06:49 < darkmeson> Dagmar: Go to a security channel and get schooled, please. I have neither the time nor inclination to teach you myself
06:49 < Dagmar> Dude my name is in newspaper articles from before the century turned
06:50 < Dagmar> I don't need to "get schooled"
06:50 < Dagmar> I had my first cert in that field probably before you were born, judging by your attitude
06:50  * Aph3x-WL makes popcorn
06:50 < darkmeson> Also, I'm not entirely sure you're not just trying to troll me anyway
06:50  * hyperair steals some popcorn from Aph3x-WL 
06:51 < CrazyTux> hello, I am not able to use KDE connect on Ubuntu Mate 18.04.
06:51 < Dagmar> I'm not going to tote around a whole system just to grab malware off a friend or a relative's PC
06:51 < Aph3x-WL> you could have just asked, i made plenty :P
06:51 < Dagmar> They're not of interest to nation states, so cold-booting the PC to boot from my phone is pretty darned safe
06:51 < CrazyTux> not able to browse files on my android phone.
06:52 < Dagmar> ...and no one was talking about plugging their phone into random PCs all over the place except _you_
06:52 < darkmeson> Dagmar: just take it to a security channel before you insert your foot any further into your mouth
06:52 < Dagmar> I'll just simplify things by plonking you
06:53 < Dagmar> CrazyTux: That functionality is pretty basic.  Be sure you've enabled MTP on your phone and that there's at least some packages installed with "mtp" in the name that your preferred file manager actually uses
06:53 < Dagmar> If you're somehow sitll using the USB removable device stuff, you should consider a newer phone
06:53 < Dagmar> It never worked very sanely on the devices where that was still an option
06:54 < CrazyTux> both my phone and laptop were purchased last year.
06:54 < Dagmar> Okay, so _definitely_ ensure that MTP mode is enabled on the phone
06:54 < CrazyTux> Dagmar, how to do that?
06:54 < Dagmar> That's the mechanism it uses to expose files to a PC now, and it's both old and common
06:54 < Aph3x-WL> does kde connect even work outside of kde/plasma?
06:54 < CrazyTux> Dagmar, I use an android phone.
06:55 < Dagmar> Under Settings, but it should also basically be accessible from the notification of "hey I'm charging here" that appears when you plug into a host port
06:55 < swift110> me too CrazyTux
06:55 < Dagmar> Just tap the notification and you should get the option to enable MTP for that session
06:55 < Dagmar> Assuming the DE knows about MTP, it should just appear as if you'd plugged in a camera or something
06:56 < Dagmar> Ubuntu Mate definitely has those packages
06:56 < CrazyTux> when I had Kubuntu Desktop installed I didn't have any problem.
06:56 < Dagmar> Okay then you've either gotten MTP turned off in the file manager, or one of your assumptions (like MTP being automatically enabled) is no longer correct
06:56 < CrazyTux> but, I am using just Ubunt Mate now with this app kde connect installed.
06:57 < Aph3x-WL> mate is not kde, so maybe it's not setup to do that out of the box
06:57 < Dagmar> Very possible
06:58 < Dagmar> It's possible libmtp and friends just weren't installed for some reason
07:01 < CrazyTux> I am clueless.
07:02 < swift110> hmm
07:04 < Elladan> CrazyTux, this is going to sound dumb, but try plugging your phone into different USB ports and so forth.
07:05 < Elladan> Also try a different cable.
07:05 < CrazyTux> Elladan, doesn't kde connect work through wifi?
07:05 < swift110> good idea Elladan
07:05 < Elladan> Oh, sorry, I was looking up and seeing talk about android MTP.
07:05 < Elladan> I don't know anything about KDE connect.
07:06 < CrazyTux> Elladan, I am not able to browse my android phone using KDE connect.
07:06 < CrazyTux> I am using Ubuntu Mate 18.04 with KDE Connect installed on it.
07:06 < CrazyTux> I can send and receive the files between my laptop and phone though.
07:08 < Aph3x-WL> do you have kde connect installed on your phone as well?
07:08 < screwsss> hey everyone
07:08 < Elladan> CrazyTux, you might check firewall settings if appropriate.
07:11 < bipul> Good morning.
07:12 < Dagmar> Yeah he does definitely need the KDE connect app running on the phone, but I assumed that was not part of the "browse files" problem
07:12 < Dagmar> Android's idea of display plugging is basically "HDMI or you're on your own" and that's only if the hardware supports it
07:13 < domhnall> CrazyTux: hate to ask you repeate the end goal but could you?
07:13 < Dagmar> The other way around _always_ requires an app of some sort
07:13 < Dagmar> (which is irksome because you can get some older phones now for less than the cost of a USB display)
07:16 < ayecee> would be so nice to use one of those old cheap tablets for that, since they're almost useless for anything else
07:16 < Dagmar> CrazyTux: Do you mean you're trying to simply make KDE Connect talk to your phone?
07:17 < Dagmar> ayecee: I have a wingray Xoom, and I've yet to find a solution for it that doesn't at least half-suck
07:17 < ayecee> doing pretty good if it only half-sucks
07:18 < Dagmar> I'm half-tempted to try it the way GPU vendors do... just send a video stream to a player app
07:18 < Dagmar> ..but for what I've been doing it's basically been easier to just _write a freakin' app_ that polls the data I need to see
07:19 < ayecee> nod
07:20 < Dagmar> I have an image for the S3 I've been tempted to try, since it's supposed to have X
07:20 < bipul> web crawler?
07:21 < CrazyTux> what is the difference between using sudo apt and sudo tasksel?
07:22 < bipul> I'm just trying to make a web crawler that search specific strings from random website on internet, It works on regular expression.
07:22 < oerheks> tasksel installs a service, apt installs a package, which can be a service
07:22 < ayecee> tasksel presents metapackages represented as tasks
07:22 < CrazyTux> ok
07:23 < ayecee> i don't know if those same task metapackages are available through apt as such
07:23 < oerheks> sure, lamp
07:23 < ayecee> Dagmar: you mentioned S5 and Lineage. is there an image for that? any downsides compared to running stock?
07:24 < ayecee> i remember when i tried jailbreaking an iphone, the ebook app could no longer open books, presumably because it no longer had access to the keys in whatever is the equivalent of a TPM
07:30 < CrazyTux> I think Airdroid is a better option.
07:31 < CrazyTux> can  be used on any DE on any distro easily.
07:31 < darkmeson> If it's anything like the process for Android phones, you lose everything when you unlock the bootloader anyway
07:32 < ayecee> that's to be expected
07:33 < darkmeson> well, yes. it's a security feature
07:36 < darkmeson> I'd always intended to Androidify an Apple device, but it's hard to justify the price of even an older model when there are better things on the market, cheaper
07:37 < ayecee> also, apple ios does things pretty well, if you're okay with the walled garden
07:38 < sauvin> That "walled garden" is precisely why I tell people NOT to buy iPoop.
07:38 < darkmeson> That's where we ran into trouble
07:39 < darkmeson> The wifi debacle on the first gen iphone cured me of any desire to run their software stack
07:39 < Elladan> I found airdroid to be unreliable these days, and switched to just using an ssh server on the phone.
07:39 < ayecee> sauvin: the wisdom giveth, and the childish language taketh away
07:40 < darkmeson> Elladan: termux-based, or?
07:40 < sauvin> ayecee, it's a religious thing, literally. If you already understand, no words are needed, and if you don't already understand, no amout of foul language is going to matter.
07:41 < CrazyTux> in terms of usability which DE is the most convenient?
07:41 < sauvin> Define "convenient".
07:41 < Disconsented> subjective to a point
07:41 < ayecee> sauvin: right up there with micro$hit. don't do that.
07:41 < CrazyTux> one that can be installed and is ready to use instantly.
07:42 < Elladan> darkmeson, uh, "SimpleSSHD" dunno maybe it's pwned me and sold all my data to aliens.
07:42 < sauvin> CrazyTux, too many for me to count. You're going to have to narrow it down a bit.
07:42 < CrazyTux> sauvin, kde or mate or gnome?
07:42 < CrazyTux> or cinnamon?
07:43 < sauvin> I'll go this far for you, and no further until you decide to be a bit more specific: I personally use KDE.
07:43 < CrazyTux> sauvin, but some say KDE is resource hungry and buggy too.
07:44 < sauvin> Some say that. It's said to be pretty heavy, but it's also very, very powerful. Try it and see - if you don't like it, zap it.
07:44 < Elladan> I use Cinnamon. It's buggy but doesn't make me want to punch things.
07:44 < CrazyTux> ok
07:44 < CrazyTux> sauvin, btw, which distro you use?
07:45 < sauvin> CrazyTux, Ubuntu and Debian.
07:45 < CrazyTux> sauvin, some say OpenSuse has the best KDE implementation.
07:46 < sauvin> That's possible.
07:47 < ayecee> some say holding your nose when you sneeze causes brain damage
07:47 < CrazyTux> lol
07:47 < Elladan> There isn't any "best" DE, though there are certainly a lot of worst ones. What people like is pretty personal.
07:48 < searedvandal> so what's the worst ones?
07:48 < CrazyTux> Elladan, I was asking from a newbie's perspective.
07:49 < pingfloyd> searedvandal: gnome or kde
07:49 < pingfloyd> I'd say hands down unity, but that one is gone now
07:49 < Elladan> Though honestly none of the modern ones seem to work as well as Gnome 2 did with Compiz back in 2010.
07:49 < ayecee> also ratpoison
07:49 < Elladan> searedvandal, ... Enlightenment? :-D
07:49 < ayecee> and fvwm95
07:49 < pingfloyd> yeah, ratpoison is pretty horrible
07:49 < CrazyTux> from the perspective of productivity, for a newbie and an end user.
07:49 < pingfloyd> it's designer suffers from OCPD or something
07:50 < pingfloyd> he's obsessed about not touching his mouse
07:50 < CrazyTux> pingfloyd, I agree. Ratpoison kills.
07:50 < Elladan> KDE, Gnome, Cinnamon, and Mate will all work fine for a new user interested in being productive.
07:50 < CrazyTux> lol
07:50 < ayecee> which is to say that worst is also pretty subjective
07:50 < Elladan> xfce will work too, but it's more geared towards low-end machines.
07:51 < CrazyTux> Elladan, ok.
07:51 < pingfloyd> I'm all for more usage of the keyboard in the gui, but there's a certain point where things become unreasonable.
07:52 < pingfloyd> I wouldn't be surprised if ratpoison has a "feature" where you can move the mouse cursor around through keyboard comb chains
07:52 < searedvandal> haha
07:53 < searedvandal> sounds fun
07:53 < CrazyTux> suppose one is asked to install a linux distro in an office where the people working don't have any knowledge of linux and are least interested in tinkering with the OS and just want their work done.
07:53 < pingfloyd> I bet if you say to them, "what about programs like Gimp?", they would reply "We do not recognize the existence of gimp.".
07:54 < darkmeson> Elladan: that's a shame. I was hoping you'd be able to tell me how well it works. I've not made the shift from SSHDroid yet, and it DOES try to phone home.
07:56 < hexnewbie> “You use GIMP?!” “Yeah.” “Can you help me fix my Amazon instance?”
07:56 < CrazyTux> which distro and which DE for the above case?
07:56 < pingfloyd> Elladan: I'd say that xfce is more geared toward gui minimalism
07:56 < pingfloyd> Elladan: i.e., having the standard and expected feature of a desktop but not much more.
07:56 < pingfloyd> *features
07:57 < pingfloyd> features get added to xfce for instance, but they're usually features that are beyond being the latest fad.
07:58 < pingfloyd> ubiquitous current "must have" features instead
07:58 < domhnall> CrazyTux: Pretty basic case for any binary distro that uses an installer. OpenSuse Leap, comes to mind with KDE.
07:58 < pingfloyd> Elladan: it just tends to work out better for low-end hardware because it isn't so bloated in comparison to the others.
07:59 < pingfloyd> LXDE is even lighter though
07:59 < hexnewbie> Features don't actually make Xfce light (I had to switch to LXDE when I fount Xfce nearly seemed as heavy as KDE), but at least it's not extremely buggy because they don't have “features before bugfixes” attitude. Then I went back to KDE because I found all the missing features were essential, and I can deal with constant crashing.
07:59 < hexnewbie> s/Features/Lack of features/
07:59 < pingfloyd> I guess supposedly LXQT is supposed to be lighter as well, but when I tried, it sure didn't feel lighter than xfce
07:59 < CrazyTux> domhnall, ok
08:00  * darkmeson has been able to make just about every DE look and act the same way, with varying degrees of difficulty
08:00 < mrig> Hi, C code is beautiful :)
08:00 < pingfloyd> hexnewbie: yeah, the other part of what makes it light is sanity in its design
08:00 < ayecee> could be that the wm is not normally the heaviest part of normal operation
08:00 < ayecee> or de
08:01 < domhnall> CrazyTux: imo, only feature (application) important on KDE is akregator.
08:01 < hexnewbie> The web browser is the heaviest part.
08:01 < pingfloyd> your web browser is usually much heavier
08:01 < pingfloyd> unless you use some light browser
08:01 < pingfloyd> like midori or dillo
08:01 < domhnall> midori still around? cool
08:01 < darkmeson> qt DOES annoy me though because it requires two different tools to set the theme, and even then it doesn't always correctly apply the dark themes
08:01 < pingfloyd> yep
08:01 < CrazyTux> domhnall, ok
08:01 < pingfloyd> midori is great if you're stuck with a low-end system
08:02 < ayecee> tbf though, unity's default requirement for 3d acceleration made it pretty heavy on older systems
08:02 < CrazyTux> domhnall, so recommend OpenSuse with KDE?
08:02 < domhnall> last use of midori for me was constant crashes
08:02 < Elladan> pingfloyd, that's a reasonable way to look at it, yeah. It does have some more resource-intensive features like compositing, too.
08:02  * darkmeson just installed midori a few hours ago
08:02 < domhnall> CrazyTux: no, I said it's a great candidate for your use case mentioned....
08:02 < papul> whats the best and quickest way to test some OS in linux? VirtualBox?
08:02 < ayecee> probably yes
08:02 < CrazyTux> domhnall, ok
08:02 < domhnall> I make no recommendations on ##linux unless it's a customer
08:03 < ayecee> aren't you a principled sob
08:03 < domhnall> heh
08:03 < CrazyTux> domhnall, consider me as your customer.
08:03 < Elladan> darkmeson, as an ssh server for a phone it works perfectly fine. You either load a key into it, or it'll show a one-time password when you connect.
08:04 < Elladan> darkmeson, ... and I've never had any trouble with transferring gigabytes of data like I do with other tools.
08:04 < pingfloyd> over the years, I used many different DEs, and gave many of the second tries later on.  The one it finally landed on for me, after a second try, was xfce.
08:04 < pingfloyd> it was like having gnome without the insane mentality
08:04 < Kirball> There’s a Mr Robot Badge PCB on eBay from last years defcon personalized and autographed by int80 of Dual Core. If anyone’s interested.
08:04 < pingfloyd> mentality like designed to be non-configurable
08:04 < hexnewbie> papul: QEMU/KVM often with virt-manager as the GUI frontend is often recommended here. But it's not as user friendly, so even if it is not best, VirtualBox *will* be way easier and quicker (and perhaps your only reasonable choice).
08:05 < Elladan> darkmeson, Also there aren't any ads. But I mean, I didn't capture its network traffic or disassemble it so I can't vouch for its benign nature.
08:05 < pingfloyd> I always liked gnome more or less, but it has some deal breakers mostly from the gnome project's philosophy.
08:05 < hexnewbie> papul: It also depends on whether you want to try out a server OS, or a desktop OS.
08:05 < pingfloyd> like I think they're half-way on the right track in their thinking
08:06 < pingfloyd> the modular mentality is one of their good points
08:06 < darkmeson> papul: httpo://copy.sh/v86/ :)
08:07  * pingfloyd wonders how long before gnome has a ribbon
08:07 < darkmeson> https://copy.sh/v86/
08:07 < domhnall> CrazyTux: If that's the case, consider hardware specs and space requirements
08:07 < pingfloyd> "The Ribbon" is one of the biggest UI abominations ever invented
08:07 < hexnewbie> When GNOME gets a ribbon, they'll make sure the tabs on the ribbon get 30px padding on top and bottom, and the buttons in the ribbon below have 60px padding on all sides.
08:08 < pingfloyd> from a UI perspective that's about the only thing that is bad about Windows 10
08:09 < CrazyTux> domhnall, laptops with Intel Core i3 2.0 Ghz quad core cpu and 4 GB RAM and 1 TB HDD.
08:09 < hexnewbie> The ribbon interface was quite nice in Quanta Plus, and is quite nice in Bluefish right now. I wish Quanta was still alive, and Kyle or TeXstudio had similar UI design to BlueFish and Quanta
08:10 < Elladan> I honestly don't really care that much about a lot of the GUI UI things people talk about. I mean, I mostly just use terminals, text editors, and web pages.
08:10 < _xor> Hey guys, I have a table-top multi-touch screen.  Is there a list of applications that I can browse through to experiment with?
08:10 < Elladan> The things that really bother me tend to be bugs more than anything else.
08:11 < darkmeson> papul: in seriousness though, virt-manager and kvm or xen if you don't need graphical acceleration, or virtualbox if you do
08:11 < hexnewbie> Unrelated, after Firefox switched to GTK 3, the GTK 3 idiotic padding has made some of my web pages (ones with very tall tables, with few hundred rows), 3-4 times larger in height, as every row has because an input field in the table now has padding larger than the font.
08:12 < papul> hexnewbie, darkmeson, I am trying out in virtualbox for now. Let's see
08:12 < papul> it's some server OS. YunoHost
08:12 < hexnewbie> Tried ~/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css to fix the web pages, but I can edit the padding of everything *but* the <input> boxes, and someone told me that was deprecated now as well
08:12 < _xor> I haven't seriously messed with Linux in years.  It's interesting seeing the landscape these days.
08:14 < darkmeson> We actually have several html5-based DEs that can run in a browser today, but that's made somewhat less amazing by the fact that the browser can run a whole OS including a GUI (see the previous link)
08:14 < hexnewbie> I don't think GNU/Linux will be ever ready for anything if it keeps deprecating the only way to do something. Like my 15 year quest to get a laptop's touchpad to work. Every 1-2 year, the workaround to fix the insane defaults gets deprecated, cuz (Xorg.conf, hal, udev rules, xinput, now that's gone though). Yuck.
08:14 < Elladan> I mean just in terms of basic usability, like if the lock screen has a bug where it doesn't show a password box when you open your laptop sometimes. I know how to break out and kill things from the console, but any normal user would be holding down the power button.
08:16 < hexnewbie> First synaptics touchpads worked out of the box, then the synaptics authors decided that it was bad design for them to work by default, so you needed Xorg.conf, then you had to remove that because it interfered with autodetection and use hald instead, then hal got removed so you use udev rules, then those got removed and now you use xinput commands in ~/.xsessionrc (which doesn't work in GNOME), and now Wayland gets rid of that. How can this
08:16 < hexnewbie> be a usable OS?
08:16 < kerframil> hexnewbie: I got back into linux on the desktop lately and am struggling with that also. I don't know how to disable coasting while using a trackpoint, for instance, nor how to make wheel scrolling behave as I expect. I launch imwheel when using an external mouse but it has limitations; I really would prefer for these options to be exposed in gnome-settings so that I can just set it and forget it.
08:17 < kerframil> hexnewbie: the acceleration curve feels a little off in libinput too, or so it seem to me
08:17 < _xor> I'm a FreeBSD guy.  I appreciate both Linux & BSD.  The best way I've heard the differences described is: "BSD is what you get when a bunch of geeks get together and engineer a UNIX OS.  Linux is what you get when you get a bunch of geeks together and grow a UNIX OS.""
08:17 < Elladan> hexnewbie, pragmatically that's something the installer should have configured for you automatically.
08:17 < pingfloyd> hexnewbie: yeah, things change at a fast pace in linux
08:18 < pingfloyd> hexnewbie: that reality about it, isn't friendly for beginners for sure.
08:18 < Elladan> hexnewbie, however I can understand your frustration that it isn't standardized in some way that makes looking up information easy.
08:18 < pingfloyd> hexnewbie: this is why it is hard to recommend to the average user.  Really it's power users that naturally become sticklers about their computing that I think it appeals to most.
08:18 < hexnewbie> kerframil: Yeah, I purged libinput immediately to go back to evdev, because after playing with libinput's settings for 15 minutes, I couldn't find anything resembling the 4x polynomial deceleration of evdev... So my mouse with libinput seemed unusable to me.
08:19 < CrazyTux> can we install and use any application on windows when we install windows in virtualbox on a linux distro?
08:19 < Elladan> CrazyTux, as long as it runs with the virtual machine's emulated hardware.
08:20 < pingfloyd> Elladan: closest things we have to standards are BSD, System V, and posix
08:20 < darkmeson> Elladan: some of us have been at it so long that it's nearly impossible to put ourselves in new users' shoes. that's a goodly part of the problem
08:20 < CrazyTux> Elladan, ok
08:20 < pingfloyd> Elladan: outside of that, it's like the wild west
08:20 < Elladan> pingfloyd, that's not exactly true, but it's close enough.
08:20 < pingfloyd> okay and LSB
08:20 < pingfloyd> and HFS
08:20 < pingfloyd> I'm sure there's others, but those are the main things
08:21 < Elladan> darkmeson, I don't think time does that. I mean, I've been doing this for a long time too and it's intuitively obvious to me that "break to console and start hunting for a process to kill" is not an acceptable user experience.
08:21 < pingfloyd> we have several competing "standards" at all levels
08:22 < CrazyTux> domhnall, your recommendation?
08:22 < darkmeson> CrazyTux: make sure you've installed the guest extensions if you expect any multimedia apps to perform well at all, and make sure you enabled the graphical acceleration option in the UI also
08:22 < pingfloyd> between those 3 I'm kind of partial to system v
08:23 < darkmeson> Elladan: it was a metaphor, and that's what it meant ;)
08:23 < Elladan> pingfloyd, distros, particularly Debian, also set de-facto standards for doing things. However, it's obviously true that there needs to be a lot more standardization.
08:23 < CrazyTux> darkmeson, ok.
08:23 < pingfloyd> Elladan: yeah, but those are definitely de-facto ones
08:23 < pingfloyd> separate class from the first 3
08:24 < Elladan> CrazyTux, re vms, the main thing to keep in mind is that the VM will probably not support GPU acceleration, or at least not very well.
08:24 < Elladan> CrazyTux, this means things like games or some CAD tools and the like won't run.
08:24 < CrazyTux> Elladan, ok
08:25 < CrazyTux> Elladan, I don't intend to run games on it.
08:25 < Elladan> There are often workarounds, but they're not really of the user-friendly sort.
08:25 < domhnall> CrazyTux: hm? sorry missed a part, cant scroll as on er...hackbook. what's the vendor? HP?
08:25 < Elladan> Any sort of "ordinary" program like a word processor will work fine.
08:25 < darkmeson> I never thought I have to use this term but, it'd help if people stopped the NIH and stopped poettering everything up
08:25 < CrazyTux> Elladan, I want to be able to install SAP ERP on Windows that is installed in VirtualBox on a linux distro.
08:25 < CrazyTux> domhnall, asus.
08:26 < CrazyTux> domhnall, and some are of HP too.
08:26 < pingfloyd> Elladan: here's a good link to pass on to beginners since it gives a good, straight to the point, run down on the standards.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jowCUo_UGts
08:27 < Elladan> CrazyTux, software of that nature should be fine.
08:27 < CrazyTux> Elladan, ok
08:27 < darkmeson> I don't really like to pick on him, but he DOES seem to be the perfect example of someone who doesn't even bother to understand why things are the way they are before coding something completely random, conflicting, and often poorly-thought-out
08:27 < domhnall> CrazyTux: https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:Laptops
08:27 < Elladan> CrazyTux, if you intend to run anything important in the VM, make sure you understand how the VM guarantees data integrity and have the cache settings configured appropriately.
08:27 < CrazyTux> domhnall, ok.
08:28 < CrazyTux> Elladan, ok. I will try to understand that.
08:28 < Elladan> That's not really an issue for web browsing or whatnot, but SAP ERP sounds like the sort of software where you might care about the data.
08:29 < CrazyTux> Elladan, yes.
08:29 < CrazyTux> domhnall, thanks a lot for that info.
08:30 < domhnall> CrazyTux: I'll bill you later :)
08:30 < CrazyTux> domhnall, yeah. Sure. why not? :)
08:31 < pingfloyd> CrazyTux: if you have vt-d, I'd recommend using qemu-kvm instead
08:31 < pingfloyd> along with virtio
08:31 < CrazyTux> pingfloyd, what is vt -d?
08:32 < CrazyTux> pingfloyd, sorry, I am a linux newbie. Am not aware of what these things are.
08:32 < pingfloyd> CrazyTux: Intel Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O
08:32 < Elladan> I've found that virtualbox works better than qemu-kvm at running a guest GUI.
08:32 < pingfloyd> or having the AMD equiv if you're using AMD of course
08:33 < Elladan> qemu-kvm is more geared towards running a server in your VM.
08:33 < CrazyTux> pingfloyd, the laptops run on Intel Core i3 cpus.
08:34 < Elladan> I don't think vt-d is relevant to doing light GUI usage in a guest VM.
08:35 < darkmeson> Elladan: It's because of the guest extensions
08:35 < pingfloyd> Elladan: it is
08:35 < Elladan> How?
08:35 < darkmeson> at least with windows guests
08:36 < pingfloyd> the display driver you can use
08:36 < darkmeson> afaik, they basically use wined3d to convert directx to opengl, which they can then pipe to the gpu easier across existing channels
08:36 < pingfloyd> in your windows guest, you want to be sure to install the virtio drivers
08:37 < pingfloyd> also should enable the hyper-v elements
08:37 < darkmeson> or at least that's how it used to work, back in the day
08:37 < darkmeson> they might have some additional zero-copy sliding buffer system by now
08:38 < Elladan> My understanding of VT-d was that it was relevant if you wanted to give the VM direct access to a piece of hardware.
08:38 < darkmeson> it is, but that's not what virtualbox is doing
08:38 < Elladan> That's never going to be the case for a basic sort of VM setup, it's either for high performance server deployments or if you need the guest to own your GPU for some reason.
08:39 < darkmeson> come to think of it, they DO have that virtio gpu code now, but I have yet to see it used anywhere
08:40 < pingfloyd> Elladan: also, you're forgetting about vga passthrough
08:40 < CrazyTux> thanks a lot for all this info.
08:40 < pingfloyd> that requires vt-d/iommu
08:40 < Elladan> Just getting 3d acceleration in the guest via virtio / guest extensions doesn't involve direct hardware access.
08:40 < darkmeson> Elladan: the latter falls under pci and vga passthrough, and just about all virt stacks support it now, I think
08:40 < domhnall> Hope you can digest it easily
08:41 < Elladan> pingfloyd, I didn't forget it.
08:41 < pingfloyd> it gets you around "95% native performance".
08:42 < Elladan> I just don't think that stuff is really new-user material, except maybe if they really want to run Windows games or something.
08:44 < pingfloyd> well, I'd say kvm is a bit more of challenge to setup properly than vbox
08:44 < pingfloyd> but not that much more
08:44 < pingfloyd> you're essentially having to do the same things, just under different terminology
08:44 < darkmeson> I guess they're calling the new method virgl, and some people are using it already. https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/7nmceg/kvmqemu_with_virtiogpu_virgl_support_enabled/
08:45 < domhnall> CrazyTux: would like to apologise also, Just figure how to scroll up logs...
08:45  * darkmeson might have to dust off a Windows vm and see how well it works
08:46 < Elladan> I'm using kvm on a server. It mostly works fine, but using a guest GUI is a pain.
08:47 < pingfloyd> it works with windows 10 for me pretty well.
08:47 < pingfloyd> (windows 10 guest)
08:48 < Elladan> Virtualbox seems less buggy and much faster at rendering a GUI. The vbox gui also seems easier for a new user to navigate to me.
08:48 < pingfloyd> Elladan: which guest?
08:48 < domhnall> no seems about it...it is easier than vmware and qemu
08:48 < Elladan> Various linux guests.
08:48 < Elladan> I don't have any use for windows.
08:49 < cmj> kvm++
08:49 < pingfloyd> it's only easier in that it is all configured in one app
08:49 < pingfloyd> with kvm it's more about configuring your linux system since it's part of the kernel.
08:49 < pingfloyd> but there's apps that help for that such as virt-manager
08:49 < Elladan> I won't say I've found vbox very reliable over the years, just that it seems simple and gui-oriented guests worked well.
08:50 < pingfloyd> I think there's no way around having to run virsh commands though at some point
08:50 < pingfloyd> but you could say practically the same about VBoxModify
08:51 < Elladan> Yeah, kvm isn't bad or anything. It just seems like a better solution of you're running a server.
08:52 < Elladan> I also get rather poor IO performance with kvm, but I think I saw some IO path optimizations in a new version I haven't bothered to upgrade to.
08:52 < Elladan> (I seem to recall virtualbox cheats at IO benchmarks by defaulting to fsync=off, or it used to anyway)
08:53 < darkmeson> I mostly use TurboVNC within my guests since its algorithm isn't terrible, and it can even pull off fullscreen multimedia in some instances
08:54 < pingfloyd> darkmeson: I've been able to watch 1080p fine in the windows 10 guest
08:55 < pingfloyd> even on a $300 craptop
08:56 < darkmeson> That's probably with both being machine-local
08:56 < Elladan> I've had serious rendering / refresh problems even in recent versions of virt-manager + kvm, and things like the mouse pointer being off by 50 pixels etc.
08:56 < darkmeson> Mine is from a server to another system over GbE
08:58 < Elladan> I mean I got it working with some random trial-and-error, but there were definite issues.
08:59 < darkmeson> The slide-down bar at the top of virt-manager in full screen mode has been transparent on the last three distros I've used
08:59 < darkmeson> That made trying to get out of fullscreen mode fun until I started getting an idea where I needed to be clicking
09:00 < darkmeson> virt-manager has always been horribly buggy like that though, and no surprise it's written in Python
09:00 < pingfloyd> that's when you use virsh
09:00 < pingfloyd> eventually you don't even bother with virt-manager
09:01 < pingfloyd> would be nice to see virt-manager cleaned up a bit though anyway
09:01 < pocketmon> how can i install eclipse cdt?
09:02 < darkmeson> I usually don't anyway
09:02 < pocketmon> me? darkmeson ?
09:03 < darkmeson> I have serial consoles set up, but Android never managed to attract anyone willing to maintain a VNC server over the long haul, so I use virt-manager for one specific app that I have to run within an android-x86 vm
09:04 < pingfloyd> isn't that just an eclipse plugin?
09:04 < darkmeson> pocketmon: don't get carried away. there's lag you know. what distro?
09:04 < pocketmon> oh then how can i install eclipse?
09:05 < darkmeson> what distro?
09:05 < pingfloyd> pocketmon: use your dist's package manager
09:05 < pocketmon> apt-get pingfloyd
09:05 < pingfloyd> yeah
09:06 < pingfloyd> try apt-cache search -n eclipse
09:06 < pingfloyd> to find the package name
09:06 < pingfloyd> then apt-get install packagename
09:06 < pingfloyd> probably eclipse anyway
09:06 < pingfloyd> which is probably a meta-package
09:07 < Elladan> On my distro there's an "eclipse-cdt" package.
09:07 < storge> cdt?
09:07 < pocketmon>  apt-get install eclipse-cdt this is ok?
09:07 < nindustries> Hi, I noticed that executable files keep working when I cat random bytes to them. (e.g. $(cat /dev/urandom | head -n1) > executable
09:07 < pingfloyd> there's tons of packages for eclipse on mine
09:07 < pocketmon> i want to use asm ide
09:08 < nindustries> Does that mean that the bytes will be contained in the app (referenced in the header), but they will not interfere with the inner workings?
09:08 < Elladan> pingfloyd, yeah pocketmon asked about eclipse cdt specifically.
09:08 < Elladan> pocketmon, it is likely that will install it for you. You may need sudo.
09:08 < storge> i don't see a -cdt in debian buster
09:09 < storge> unless its in one of the others. apt-cache show $package
09:09 < Elladan> nindustries, when you do that, you're deleting the executable that was there and replacing it with some random garbage.
09:09 < storge> what is cdt?
09:09 < pingfloyd> Elladan: then asked about installing eclipse, and then about an asm ide
09:09 < Elladan> nindustries, since the running app has a reference to the old deleted file, it sticks around until the app is closed.
09:10 < Elladan> nindustries, to be slightly more clear, you're deleting the file and then creating a new file with the same name.
09:10 < paulcarroty> Absolute path to 'lspci' is '/sbin/lspci', so running it may require superuser privileges (eg. root).
09:10 < paulcarroty> crap, opensuse is funny
09:10 < nindustries> Elladan: sorry, I meant >>
09:10 < pingfloyd> storge: try apt-cache search eclipse cdt (stretch has it for sure)
09:10 < darkmeson> Ubuntu has it, but Debian doesn't
09:10 < pingfloyd> darkmeson: Stretch has it
09:11 < pingfloyd> has a bunch of eclipse-cdt-* packages
09:12 < Elladan> nindustries, with >> you're appending junk to the end of the executable. Many executable binary formats will not use this junk, but some will stop working.
09:12 < Elladan> nindustries, however, whether a running instance will notice the new data depends on many factors.
09:12 < darkmeson> storge: it's the version for C/C++
09:12 < nindustries> In my test cases, I tried running it AFTER appending the junk data
09:13 < darkmeson> pingfloyd: out of curiosity, does it have midori too? buster doesn't have that either
09:13 < pingfloyd> yep
09:13 < darkmeson> interesting
09:14 < domhnall> pocketmon: might be useful to check out sasm also. doubt it's in repos for debian though
09:14 < Elladan> nindustries, if the binary format is e.g. ELF (i.e. a C/C++ program), the program has a header that, in effect, points to the different pieces in a structured way. So some extra junk at the end is unlikely to matter.
09:14 < pingfloyd> Candidate: 0.5.11-ds1-4+b1
09:14 < storge> darkmeson: they'll find their way in. example: etherape wasn't in buster, now it is.
09:14 < nindustries> Elladan: In my test cases I used programs compiled from Golang
09:15 < Elladan> nindustries, I'm not familiar with how the golang runtime works.
09:15 < pingfloyd> that's the nature of Testing branch
09:15 < storge> yep
09:15 < Elladan> nindustries, as an example of something that would fail, a python script would become very unhappy if you appended random junk to the end.
09:15 < nindustries> I'm asking in #go-nuts , but thanks for the explanation Elladan
09:15 < nindustries> Ahh, yes.
09:15 < nindustries> Because that just contains a basic file header & 'text'?
09:16 < pingfloyd> nindustries: if you're trying to hack executables, learn assembler and how to use a hex editor instead.
09:16 < Elladan> Yes. So the random junk at the end would be parsed as runnable code.
09:17 < domhnall> yum..entropy
09:18 < darkmeson> pingfloyd: It's actually kind of funny because I'd used Slackware, then jumped to Redhat, then Mandrake (iirc), Ubuntu , and various others, but never Debian until recently
09:22 < pingfloyd> darkmeson: I've used many dists, but started and ended with deb.
09:22 < pingfloyd> all the others pale in comparison to me
09:22 < pingfloyd> so I always end up coming back to debian
09:23 < storge> likewise, me also
09:23 < pingfloyd> every now and then I go on a spree of checking out new dists coming out
09:23 < pingfloyd> I'm going to check out void next
09:23 < pingfloyd> it sounds interesting
09:24 < pingfloyd> and not using systemd sounds like a plus with it
09:24 < domhnall> pingfloyd: when trying out, do you usually install or try vm first?
09:24 < darkmeson> I guess I just tried to avoid deb-based distros as much as possible because the packages were so much more of a challenge to make and all of the limitations and a few of the philosophical choices made in-place upgrades excruciating
09:24 < storge> pingfloyd: in the last week i downloaded void, alpine, and a couple others
09:24 < pingfloyd> domhnall: usually installed.  Now I got something with vt-d, so I'll probably play around in vm
09:25 < adtac> people use alpine for their desktop? o.O
09:25 < storge> adtac: i'm going to try it at least
09:25 < Elladan> The only distro I've really cared to play with in the last couple years was Fedora, when they got wayland working.
09:25 < pingfloyd> darkmeson: there packages can be a pain to make if you want to make official ones.
09:26 < pingfloyd> darkmeson: if you just need a package for your own uses, you can just use something like checkinstall
09:26 < darkmeson> None of that is really a problem anymore since I can easily make a chroot, container, or vm with a completely different distro to be lazy and not have to build any packages to begin with
09:26 < pingfloyd> or forego making a package to begin with and say round out of its source tree
09:26 < adtac> Elladan: for whatever reason, fedora's GNOME is always smoother than the vanilla GNOME you get from Arch's packages, no idea why
09:26 < pingfloyd> s/round/run/
09:27 < darkmeson> Back when I was making debs, I mostly just cheated and made rpms, then used alien. or sometimes I'd use checkinstall
09:27 < Elladan> I don't really like gnome 3's UI, though I will say it seems tolerable in a way that unity... wasn't.
09:27 < pingfloyd> adtac: I think fedora does a lot of patching to gnome for it
09:27 < pingfloyd> adtac: fedora is pretty gnome bias
09:27 < adtac> pingfloyd: are those patches available to be applied in other gnome installs?
09:28 < Elladan> But I really just wanted to see the glorious wayland in operation :-D
09:28 < nindustries> Woops, network bork.
09:29 < surrealpie> how can i enable ssh in batch mode
09:29 < Elladan> I don't think I saw any obvious graphics tearing, for pretty much the first time since I was using an Amiga 500 in the '90s. So yay wayland? :-)
09:29 < pingfloyd> adtac: this is probably your best bet for that https://src.fedoraproject.org/cgit
09:30 < surrealpie> i tried uncommenting batchmod = yes , in /etc/ssh/ssh_config
09:30 < darkmeson> It still kind of annoys me because even today I have to go into /var/lib/dpkg/info every once in a while and move some .post* scripts out of the way temporarily to unwedge package operations
09:30 < darkmeson> It's worth it to avoid systemd on my baremetal installations though ;)
09:31 < domhnall> sounds like a job for *bsd
09:31 < darkmeson> Elladan: when you say gnome 3, are you talking about gnome shell?
09:31 < pingfloyd> Elladan: that's kind of what was a catalyst for wayland
09:32 < pingfloyd> Elladan: how X can't do vsync correctly
09:32 < Elladan> darkmeson, yes.
09:32 < Elladan> darkmeson, I mean the actual gnome libs are used by a lot of DE's.
09:32 < adtac> I have the weirdest bug ever in chrome + xorg: every fourth window I open will have a very weird screen render issue like that infamous XP bug where if you move your window around the border will create patterns
09:32 < adtac> *every* fourth window
09:33 < storge> adtac: it's all your fault
09:33 < darkmeson> They actually did finally cave and put the work into fallback mode that it needed to become a first class citizen again
09:33 < pingfloyd> YOU BROKE IT!
09:33 < adtac> gave me another reason to move to ff lol
09:33 < Elladan> adtac, I think your computer hates you.
09:34 < darkmeson> gnome shell was their unrealistic expectation that a desktop workflow would ever be able to be adapted to a tablet interface
09:34 < adtac> a piece of structured rock hates me, a new low in life
09:34 < darkmeson> so obviously it's going to be somewhat lacking if you're not using it on a tablet ;)
09:34 < pingfloyd> so bloated
09:34 < Elladan> pingfloyd, yeah. To be fair to X, I see painfully bad tearing on Windows and Mac too. :-)
09:34 < pingfloyd> I use dmenu
09:35 < pingfloyd> I don't want superfluous animations and decorations
09:35 < pingfloyd> I just want the program I want to run, to run without delay
09:35 < pingfloyd> in minimal keystrokes
09:35 < darkmeson> adtac: I hate to break it to you, but firefox isn't any better
09:35 < Aph3x-WL> yes it is
09:36 < pingfloyd> ^
09:36 < darkmeson> I'm typing this through an app called Riot, and it manages to bring firefox to its knees by itself
09:36 < Aph3x-WL> because riot is garbage
09:36 < pingfloyd> ^
09:37 < Elladan> I stopped using Firefox years ago when Chrome got to version, like, 0.0000001 on Linux, because it would segfault on about every 4th web page and take down the whole browser.
09:37 < ikonia> I see Crazytux came back for this weeks round of "what distro is best" or "what desktop is best"
09:38 < darkmeson> It's actually due for a reload even now because it freezes up for a good 20 seconds here and there despite ample available resources
09:38 < Elladan> ... while chrome lacked features like "a menu" and stuff, but had process isolation. These days they both seem like programs that function.
09:39 < Elladan> Heh, the modern web: A place where every web page you visit might try to burn out your CPU with a javascript bitcoin miner delivered through someone's hacked 4-level-deep ad network account.
09:40 < pingfloyd> the whole web-app concept is flawed
09:40 < darkmeson> Aph3x-WL: actually, it's the browser. It kept pegging a core on a single, main thread but even that went away in 60 and I have all of the other obvious things like hardware acceleration disabled
09:40 < storge> pingfloyd: do you use surf too?
09:41 < darkmeson> It's not the concept that flawed, it's the browser security
09:41 < pingfloyd> storge: no
09:41 < adtac> I hate to further the electron hate circlejerk, but what braindead person thought it'd be a good idea to have *multiple* browsers with separate runtimes to display websites without a url bar
09:41 < pingfloyd> storge: I don't like most suckless projects, but dmenu serves a good purpose well.
09:42 < darkmeson> Somehow browser developers think that enabling random third parties to run arbitrary code with minimal isolation is a good thing
09:42 < Elladan> darkmeson, surely you jest. Every page having permission to load a program onto your computer which initiates arbitrary TCP connections to localhost (or anywhere else), what could go wrong?
09:42 < adtac> pingfloyd: st is pretty cool, I'm running it
09:42 < pingfloyd> storge: maybe dwm is the other one that is okay
09:42 < pingfloyd> adtac: I don't like st for anything other than running roguelikes.
09:42 < darkmeson> adtac: electron had a pretty serious vulnerability very recently, actually
09:43 < darkmeson> https://copy.sh/v86/
09:43 < darkmeson> 'nuff said
09:43 < pingfloyd> adtac: it's atrocious from a usability standpoint as a terminal emulator.  (Doesn't even have scrolling)
09:43 < Aph3x-WL> darkmeson: the browser does what it's supposed to and it does it well. a poorly coded, poorly optimized, piece of software running inside that browser bringing it "to its knees" is the fault of the coders of the software running inside, not the browser itself
09:43 < pingfloyd> adtac: I think suckless got really myopic with st
09:44 < Aph3x-WL> it's meant to browse the web, not to run a nodejs OS inside it
09:44 < darkmeson> here's the github for that btw. https://github.com/copy/v86
09:44 < cmj> jesus
09:44 < pingfloyd> adtac: maybe not though.  I think it probably is perfect for a minimalist with OCD.
09:44 < adtac> pingfloyd: not having scrolling was a design decision
09:44 < adtac> pingfloyd: they decided tmux filled that gap well enough
09:45 < pingfloyd> I know
09:45 < pingfloyd> but I think it is a terrible design decision since it throws aways bare essential functionality
09:45 < pingfloyd> I think they're drawing the line to tight.
09:46 < pingfloyd> I mean we could go all the way back to where you had to enter opcode bit by bit
09:46 < pingfloyd> so where does one draw the line?
09:46 < pingfloyd> I think basic taken for granted functionality is a good one
09:46 < adtac> there's a patch somewhere around that adds scrolling, if you're interested, but the suckless devs didn't take it in
09:46 < pingfloyd> adtac: I know
09:47 < darkmeson> Aph3x-WL: ok, let me make it a little less controversial. firefox still doesn't do proper multiprocess just yet, and it also still fails to manage extensions in an appropriate way
09:47 < pingfloyd> adtac: I like xfce-terminal better altogether anyway.  ST is still great for playing roguelikes in text mode.
09:47 < adtac> pingfloyd: I get your point, but there *is* a market for st, and it fills that niche
09:47 < adtac> not that there's anything wrong with other terminals
09:47 < pingfloyd> adtac: yeah, I guess where they chose to draw the line is probably where that market likes
09:48 < pingfloyd> adtac: it's fine though, because it's not a big investment for me either way since I like xfce-terminal anyway.
09:48 < darkmeson> Just to qualify the latter point, it looked like a futex storm was going on in the thread pegging the core, which afair is the same damned thing I've always had happen with firefox, even under the old engine
09:48 < pingfloyd> I like its balance between a barebones VTE based terminal emulator and super bloated gnome terminal
09:49 < darkmeson> Extensions conflicting and stepping all over each other because they didn't have a clear and defined order of precedence, basically
09:49 < pingfloyd> darkmeson: I've had firefox freeze, but it seems to less often than other competing web browsers
09:50 < storge> ^
09:50 < pingfloyd> I'd like to see mozilla iron that out the next few versions
09:50 < storge> and rarely if ever, anymore
09:50 < storge> (for me)
09:50 < pingfloyd> I'd rather they do that than add any new features really
09:51 < pingfloyd> I've had freezes on this laptop lately and I'm still trying to nail it down.
09:51 < pingfloyd> I just haven't had the time and energy to
09:51 < Elladan> I haven't had chrome freeze in a long time.
09:52 < pingfloyd> the main reason I don't use chrome is because its google
09:52 < Elladan> Yeah, that's a potential issue.
09:52 < pingfloyd> and google is shady with their practices on users
09:53 < paulcarroty> google is a gigantic privacy pomp
09:53 < Elladan> I trust them more than I'd trust other megacorps with my data, but it's getting less and less warranted.
09:53 < domhnall> heh, at least geolocation is off by default
09:53 < darkmeson> The bad part is that most of the extensions that I use  are things that really should've been integrated right into the browser and UI long ago like uMatrix, ScriptSafe/NoScript, and Cookie Autodelete/Self-Destructing Cookies
09:53 < domhnall> for now...maybe?
09:53 < pingfloyd> who to trust less?  Oracle, Microsoft, Apple, or Google?
09:53 < storge> i have better luck with chrome in mapping and gis sites, but i use firefox for basically everything else. and since i only use map/gis at work, firefox is essentially my first choice..
09:54 < morf> i don't trust none of them
09:54 < morf> what are you mad?
09:54 < darkmeson> So it's pointless to even test without them because what'd I'd be left with was something completely unsafe for use anyway
09:54 < pingfloyd> it's like a Presidential Election
09:54 < paulcarroty> folks, what about window manages today? They all are died or something is active now? I'd like to use something fast and functional.
09:54 < morf> they are corporations ... they make money... they don't give a fuck
09:54 < darkmeson> s/was/would be/
09:54 < pingfloyd> which crook do we trust the least
09:54 < storge> morf: +1 well they do, but their goals are not yours
09:54 < paulcarroty> to trust who doesn't sell private data
09:55 < morf> also let's remember one quote "Corporation: An ingenious device for obtaining profit without individual responsibility."
09:55 < pingfloyd> paulcarroty: have you tried icewm?
09:55 < pingfloyd> paulcarroty: are you needing some light, functional, and fast?
09:55 < storge> morf: that's exactly what i mean, well put.
09:55 < darkmeson> or lxde or xfce
09:56 < paulcarroty> pingfloyd, installed, but there's no clock and sound regulation
09:56 < pingfloyd> paulcarroty: that's going to be other programs
09:56 < paulcarroty> lxde/xfce is nearly to dead now
09:56 < pingfloyd> paulcarroty: DE's have such programs, but there are also standalone ones.
09:57 < pingfloyd> paulcarroty: you'd probably want to use pavcontrol or alsamixer in your case
09:57 < pingfloyd> *pavucontrol
09:58 < bartmon> how come xscreensaver has no fork that would bring some theming to it? it stands out like a sore thumb with its default appearance...
09:58 < darkmeson> there's also awesome
09:58 < bartmon> paulcarroty, see i3/sway/bspwm
09:58 < Elladan> bartmon, there are gnome and kde screensavers
09:59 < darkmeson> patches are welcome, I'm sure
09:59 < MrElendig> would rather rewrite the whole thing
09:59 < MrElendig> than try to patch ut
09:59 < MrElendig> it
09:59 < Elladan> But also, do people even use screensavers these days? I mean it seems like a waste of electricity.
09:59 < pingfloyd> xscreensaver has a lot of problems
09:59 < paulcarroty> well, sway use Wayland? interesting
09:59 < pingfloyd> which is unfortunate
09:59 < ansraliant> bartmon: how about awesome? isn't it active any more?
10:00 < ansraliant> it was like very popular a while ago
10:00 < paulcarroty> sreensaver is waste of time
10:00 < pingfloyd> I like ones that show feeds
10:00 < MrElendig> awesome isn't awesome
10:01 < paulcarroty> https://github.com/awesomeWM/awesome looks alive
10:01 < iflema> let it powerdown ffs...
10:01 < pingfloyd> there's one that grab random crap off the web.  It's funny when porno ends up its collage
10:01 < Elladan> I like the idea of a tiling WM, but honestly I just make everything full screen and use workspaces.
10:01 < Elladan> ... which works in pretty much any WM that isn't terrible.
10:02 < pingfloyd> I use fullscreen too
10:02 < pingfloyd> I really don't ever need tiling for more than two windows at a time anyway
10:02 < Triffid_Hunter> I use a combo.. 6 desktops with most apps on each tiled into a quarter screen grid
10:02 < Elladan> The half-screen snap stuff tends to be fine for when I need 2 windows.
10:02 < darkmeson> I do the same,  except my workspaces are mostly vnc sessions
10:03 < pingfloyd> Triffid_Hunter: doesn't that feel like sitting at work?
10:03 < Triffid_Hunter> pingfloyd: I am sitting at work :P
10:03 < pingfloyd> that many screens and it feels like I'm on security duty or something.
10:03 < Elladan> For terminals I want more of course, but you can do that inside the window with terminator or tmux or screen or whatever.
10:03 < adtac> I've been meaning to move to sway for over 4 months now, inertia's a bitch, I got too comfortable in gnome
10:04 < pingfloyd> Elladan: I just open new windows
10:04 < pingfloyd> Elladan: and manage it through the wm
10:04 < adtac> I basically only use 2 windows anyway; tmux with 5-8 windows and a browser
10:04 < pingfloyd> I really hate the extra layer of shortcuts with tmux and screen
10:04 < Elladan> Yeah, I use terminator.
10:05 < notmike> Slackware is still the best distro all-time
10:05 < darkmeson> I actually have 12 desktops atm
10:05 < bartmon> notmike, define best()
10:05 < Elladan> It seems to have shortcuts that are pleasing, compared to using a terminal-splitter like tmux
10:05 < notmike> bartmon: but any definition
10:05 < notmike> By
10:10  * iflema https://imgur.com/a/6Imlh0k
10:11 < paulcarroty> iflema, it killing my eyes
10:11 < paulcarroty> a lot of black color and small fonts
10:13 < pingfloyd> iflema: is the hinting that bad or is it because it is jpg?
10:13 < truthr> when will linux overtake windows as a desktop OS?
10:13 < iflema> png... scrot... never used it before ;)
10:14 < iflema> just hit and it went beep and made apng
10:14 < pingfloyd> on imgur its a jpg
10:14 < iflema> madness
10:16 < pingfloyd> https://i.imgur.com/439gPOc.jpg
10:16 < MrElendig> ptpb > imgurl
10:16 < iflema> muh new old keyboard has no volume controls... pez
10:17 < MrElendig> iflema: 2€ avr/stm board + a pot
10:17 < pingfloyd> this laptop has them in the f'n fn keys
10:18 < iflema> so does mine since 4.10
10:18 < iflema> just wont boot since 4.11
10:18 < iflema> lol
10:19 < iflema> i might look into it one day...
10:19 < iflema> just missed the LTS ;)
10:21 < ansraliant> don't you know what year it is truthr?
10:21 < akd> Hi
10:21 < ansraliant> it's the year of the linux desktop
10:22 < akd> I amhaving an erreor in a bash script
10:22 < akd> :
10:22 < akd> =>  /root/.npm/_npx/151/lib/node_modules/rollup-umd-scripts/bin/scripts-ci/cmds/../../../internals/declination/create: line 78: /root/oot/.npm/_npx/151/lib/node_modules/rollup-umd-scripts/bin/scripts-ci/cmds/../../../internals/declination/01-react: No such file or directory
10:22 < akd> I dont understanbd how 01-react cannot exist, it is in the same directory as create
10:22 < iflema> MrElendig: I got a Microsoft remote... they make great hardware...
10:22 < pingfloyd> ansraliant: I think truthr still lives in 1995
10:22 < akd>  and create is throwing err L78 , when I try to run
10:23 < phre4k> I upgraded to Kernel 4.17 and now my monitor timings over DVI don't seem to be correct, I have a refresh rate of 59.95 working over DP but with DVI only 60.00 works.
10:23 < phre4k> how can I report this? I only get an error on my monitor, not in any journal/log
10:23 < ansraliant> pingfloyd: the windows commertials from that time were awesome
10:23 < iflema> MCE fing with a green button... and the DVD was scribing shit with light... once...
10:23 < pingfloyd> Start me up!
10:23 < pingfloyd> that one?
10:24 < pingfloyd> think they were trying to prove something to Steve Jobs when he said they have no taste.
10:24 < ansraliant> yes, that one
10:24 < pingfloyd> but Steve Jobs had Bono
10:25 < pingfloyd> so he shouldn't throw stones
10:25 < ayecee> i see what you did there
10:25 < ansraliant> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY2j_GPIqRA
10:25 < ansraliant> i don't remember when this came out
10:25 < ansraliant> around 98 I guess
10:26 < proa> do we have to add entries in /etc/exports or /etc/fstab?
10:26 < pingfloyd> now I feel nauseous.  Thanks
10:26 < proa> I am on centos. trying to setup nfs mounts
10:26 < ansraliant> there was also the one with jenifer aniston when she was hot and young. Now she is hot and old
10:26 < ayecee> proa: that depends a lot on what you want to accomplish
10:26 < pingfloyd> ansraliant: touche https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7PYQCXdX3A
10:27 < proa> ayecee: all i am trying to do is to setup a nfs storage between aws instance and my vagrant box
10:27 < ayecee> still vague
10:28 < pingfloyd> ansraliant: kind of like Microsoft except s/hot/gross/
10:28 < ayecee> still no clue on which is mounting what
10:29 < proa> the storage on aws needs to appear in vagrant
10:30 < pingfloyd> proa: all you got to do is tell the computer to
10:30 < truthr> pingfloyd, 1995!?
10:30 < truthr> linux has not passed windows for desktop os, or has it? no it hasn't
10:30 < truthr> pingfloyd, great nick btw
10:31 < ayecee> but next year is the year of linux on the desktop
10:31 < pingfloyd> truthr: that's subjective
10:31 < storge> it's always next year
10:31 < truthr> it will happen
10:31 < truthr> it is coming
10:31 < pingfloyd> truthr: I think it has.  I can do a lot more with it and have a lot more options.
10:31 < phre4k> the year of the Linux desktop is always $currentyear
10:32 < ayecee> + 1
10:32 < pingfloyd> what determines?
10:32 < phre4k> it works
10:32 < truthr> wait a minute...linux users do not seem to care if most users use windows
10:32 < pingfloyd> then it happened a long time ago
10:32 < truthr> only that they use it
10:32 < truthr> what about the Freedom of the masses
10:33 < ayecee> what about it
10:33 < pingfloyd> how do you give freedom to those that turn their nose at it?
10:33 < truthr> it is hard
10:34 < truthr> if you do not give freedom to the masses, you will eventually lose your freedom. i made that up just now.
10:34 < truthr> probably true in some form
10:35 < ansraliant> #philosophy
10:35 < ansraliant> haha
10:35 < ansraliant> my jokes are bad and I should feel bad
10:35 < ayecee> still doesn't make a year of the linux desktop
10:36 < truthr> i take it most here do not follow the 4 freedoms of Free Software
10:37 < ayecee> you take correctly sir
10:37 < ansraliant> weren't they 3 freedoms?
10:37 < truthr> 4
10:37 < ayecee> 5
10:37 < truthr> https://fsfe.org/freesoftware/basics/4freedoms.en.html
10:37 < ansraliant> 6
10:37 < truthr> get back to your roots
10:38 < ayecee> how's the view from that high horse
10:38 < truthr> pretty damned good
10:38 < pingfloyd> good luck making your system 100% free
10:38 < truthr> yeah, well that is almost impossible
10:38 < ayecee> the only thing the high horse lacks is a mirror
10:38 < pingfloyd> after you have only 100% free software on the system, the next can of worms is all the firmware.
10:39 < truthr> the goal is free software and hardware
10:39 < ayecee> and food
10:39 < pingfloyd> it's a good goal, eventually there will be better choices as long as their is the drive.
10:39 < truthr> yeah you have to make a living
10:40 < pingfloyd> you need groups like fsf and gnu to be a driving force to make headway in that direction.
10:41 < truthr> so support fsf
10:41 < ayecee> no u
10:41 < truthr> i do
10:41 < ayecee> well good, that's taken care of
10:42 < pingfloyd> did you pay via paypal?
10:42 < truthr> i see the universities are doing a bang up job and teaching students the fundamental importance of Free Software
10:42 < truthr> i paid, not saying how
10:42 < ayecee> lies
10:42 < ayecee> present receipts
10:43 < pingfloyd> did you send them a bag of weed or something?
10:43 < truthr> nah, i have been an associate member or some shit for years
10:43  * ayecee bets on some shit
10:44 < MrElendig> universities are so stupid, my local one forces all the students to use a closed source GIS suite, even though no one uses that software in the real life, almost everyone uses qgis instead
10:44 < pingfloyd> scorched
10:44 < ayecee> almost everyone of my friends*
10:44 < MrElendig> so not only are the students forced to pay 400€ (after 80% discount) for this crappy software, they don't learn the software stack that they will actually be using after graduation
10:45 < pingfloyd> the education racket
10:45 < ansraliant> after the goverment universities are a big pile of burocratic crap
10:45 < truthr> education has become for profit shit
10:45 < pingfloyd> put your product across school to win the hearts and minds of the youth
10:45 < MrElendig> the universities here are private
10:45 < truthr> they have sacrificed integrity
10:45 < ayecee> can't even spell bureaucratic
10:45 < pingfloyd> use their career as your sink or swim platform
10:45 < pingfloyd> instead of teaching them the defacto standard
10:46 < pingfloyd> what's best for them
10:46 < MrElendig> even in this communist state (according to fox news)
10:46 < im0nde> Hi I have a problem with the latest kernel from the arch linux repos. When I update to it, my keyboard (or maybe its the usb) doesn't work anymore. I have to chroot from a usb live system and downgrade to restore the functionality
10:46 < MrElendig> im0nde: post logs?
10:46 < MrElendig> also, sure you booted into the correct kernel?
10:47 < ayecee> what  happens  when  you  try
10:47 < ayecee> ok, fair enough, keyboard doesn't work anymore
10:47 < pingfloyd> doesn't work how?
10:47 < MrElendig> got a second device you can use to ssh in?
10:47 < ayecee> still would be useful to have dmesg output
10:47 < im0nde> MrElendig: I dont now how to do anything, except live stick
10:48 < im0nde> ayecee: can i get that from chroot?
10:48 < ayecee> im0nde: maybe yes
10:48 < MrElendig> journalctl -b -1 ....
10:48 < ayecee> from /var/log within the chroot
10:48 < pingfloyd> dmesg -w and then plug in the keyboard
10:48 < ayecee> wat
10:49 < im0nde> I cant really unplug the keyboard. Its a laptop
10:49 < ayecee> ofc
10:49 < MrElendig> wouldn't be supriced if this is a case of not having /boot mounted when he updated
10:49 < pingfloyd> great
10:49 < ayecee> doesn't seem likely
10:49 < im0nde> ok let me boot the chroot then.
10:50 < ayecee> normal boot with a usb keyboard may also be an option
10:50 < im0nde> ayecee: no, i tried that.
10:51 < im0nde> I'm starting to get the feeling it freezes at the login prompt (tty)
10:51 < im0nde> ok im in chroot now.
10:52 < pingfloyd> probably should report a bug to arch
10:52 < ayecee> ok, that's more different than keyboard not working
10:53 < im0nde> ayecee: As I said, its hard to tell. Usb devices seem to not work
10:53 < MrElendig> get the log from journalctl, see if ssh works
10:54 < azarus> Does ext4 make sense for standard flash USB drives? Does having a journal decrease its lifespan?
10:55 < MrElendig> no
10:55 < MrElendig> not in a noticable way
10:55 < MrElendig> specially not if you are just using it for file transfer
10:55 < azarus> Then one might use any journaled filesystem for it, for what it matters
10:56 < pingfloyd> how much does it really matter for a usb stick?
10:58 < im0nde> MrElendig: Can I start ssh from chroot? systemd start sshd refuses to run in chroot
10:59 < Metalsutton> Hi allow. I am having a little trouble following the circled steps: https://i.imgur.com/rIUrMc0.png  , how do i go about doing this on a windows machine?
10:59 < truthr> ##windows
11:00 < MrElendig> Metalsutton: it literally tells you how
11:01 < MrElendig> Metalsutton: it tells you to use win32 disk imager
11:01 < MrElendig> Metalsutton: which has a whooping 3 buttons, one of which being exit
11:02 < MrElendig> hmm, they have added a cancel button too now
11:03 < MrElendig> Metalsutton: https://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/
11:03 < MrElendig> and window mounts things when you plug them in
11:06 < han-solo> Hello guys
11:06 < han-solo> I happened to have wrote echo > /usr/bin/systemctl, and now i cannot use systemctl
11:06 < han-solo> Is there any way i can get the executable back ?
11:07 < MrElendig> yourpackagemanager install systemd
11:07 < Metalsutton> oh I use a DD writer called Rufus ... I thought i could somehow interchange it.
11:07 < han-solo> is it possible to copy one system's 'systemctl' to another machine ?
11:07 < MrElendig> no need, just use your package manager
11:08 < han-solo> MrElendig: Yes, it says systemd is already installed, and since no update,....
11:09 < MrElendig> you can tell it to reinstall it anyway
11:09 < MrElendig> see the manual for your package manager
11:09 < han-solo> MrElendig: Yeah, i did. Installed package systemd-219-42.el7_4.10.x86_64 (from updates) not available.
11:10 < han-solo> MrElendig: Okay, i'll just update it then, i guess
11:10 < han-solo> Thanks
11:11 < MrElendig> dnf reinstall systemd
11:11 < han-solo> yum reinstall, didn't do anything. I did yum update systemd and worked
11:14 < Metalsutton> MrElendig, Maybe you didnt see the circled bit, the circled bit refers to uImage, I already have the .img file written to the sdcard and the BOOT partition avalible to me.
11:15 < im0nde> MrElendig: I have the log  https://ptpb.pw/aeg_
11:16 < MrElendig> Metalsutton: your cicle included writing the image too
11:17 < MrElendig> Metalsutton: so your problem is that you don't know how to copy a file on windows?
11:17 < catphish> i want to use ssh-keygen and output the key to stdout, is there any way to do this?
11:17 < catphish> i've been unable to work this out for myself, it may not be possible, i'm not sure
11:17 < MrElendig> Metalsutton: drag and drop the file, then press f2 to rename
11:17 < Metalsutton> I know how to copy. But what is uImage? its another file in the boot root folder.
11:17 < MrElendig> Metalsutton: a file
11:17 < Metalsutton> AHHHHHH. ok.
11:17 < MrElendig> file/directory
11:19 < Metalsutton> would it just make sense to rename whatever I want to use to uImage and Script.bin ?
11:19 < catphish> seems it's impossible :( wonder if i can get openssl to generate all the keys i need instead
11:19 < Metalsutton> Acheives the same result i guess.
11:20 < MrElendig> script.bin not Script.bin
11:37 < heeen> can you configure udp in a way to receive all broadcast datagrams on a socket that is bound form two processes
11:40 < heeen> actually, I just noticed this works for broadcast but not for non-broadcast
11:46 < demio> hey guys
11:46 < demio> having some trouble installing windows fonts on alpine
11:46 < demio> and having trouble finding online resources about it
11:46 < demio> im installing fontconfig@edge \      msttcorefonts-installer@edge \       ttf-dejavu@edge \
11:46 < demio> and running  update-ms-fonts && \       fc-cache -f
11:47 < demio> but when i compile GraphicsMagick
11:47 < demio> it doesnt detect the windows fonts
11:56 < BluesKaj> Hiyas all
11:57 < inthl> I have 2 physical hdds which are set up as raid 0 in a software raid, with ext4. is it generally possible to change the blocksize afterwards, aka without re-creating the fs? I already have tons of data on them on a production environment and would not like to cause downtime
11:59 < nostrora> Hello, i have a well customized ZSH in my linux. i want to know if i can use it when i ssh on another computer ? because i don't want to lost my zsh configuration
11:59 < MrElendig> copy it over to the remote
11:59 < MrElendig> I asume you mean .zshrc not that you patched zsh itself
12:02 < nostrora> MrElendig: yes
12:03 < azarus> inthl: no, you can't change that afterwards
12:03 < azarus> inthl: also, what's the current and new block size you want?
12:03 < azarus> normally, e2fsprogs chooses it perfectly
12:06 < inthl> azarus, I set it down from the default, 4096 to 2048, but I think that was a bad idea, since i/o wait is a little too high
12:09 < pentanol> hi all, could anyone suggest me channele for nodejs meteor react?
12:13 < pentanol> anyone around?
12:14 < Armand> Yes
12:14 < kerframil> pentanol: ##webdev, perhaps
12:14 < pentanol> ok, thanks
12:15 < kr_217> Hi all, need little help on tar command.I want tar a files which in /a/b/c.but when i do tar -czvf abc.tar /a/b/c/* it archive the directory path as well but i don't want that.I want to archive the files in /a/b/c?
12:16 < DLange> kr_217: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/24870/tar-files-only-no-directories
12:16 < han-solo> tar -C a/b/c -cvzf stuff.tar.gz .
12:17 < han-solo> not the '.' at the end, it's there for a purpose. Don't omit it
12:18 < kerframil> kr_217: it's unclear whether you are trying to avoid recursion of the sub-directories of /a/b/c or whether you are simply trying to including "/a/b/c" as the prefix for the archived pathnames.
12:18 < kerframil> to avoid including*
12:20 < kerframil> kr_217: if the former, +1 to kevin's answer in the stackoverflow thread (the one that uses find without xargs). if the latter, then as per han-solo's answer.
12:21 < azarus> inthl: premature optimizations? :<
12:26 < kerframil> kr_217: actually, the answers that recommend the use of --null and -T are safer, as long as you're using GNU tar (the use of find ... {} + could potentially execute tar more than once, if traversing a very large number of files).
12:28 < inthl> azarus, well, there was theory and there is practice
12:29 < azarus> inthl: in practice, the defaults get you the furthest ;)
12:29 < azarus> but no, can't change the blocksize of ext4 after creation
12:29 < azarus> nor do I know of any other filesystem that could do that
12:29 < inthl> I have 64G of RAM on a system with the mentioned lots of I/O, with about 20G of RAM in use for applications running. how come that there is always about 40G of ram free, ..should't that be used for metadata caching?
12:30 < azarus> inthl: well, do you even have that much metadata?
12:30 < inthl> gazillions of files
12:30 < azarus> or, is it even being accessed frequently enough to make sense to be cached?
12:31 < inthl> well surely about 100 opens/closes every second, over all those files
12:31 < searedvandal> if it's needed, it will cache it
12:31 < azarus> ^^
12:31 < kerframil> inthl: in general, it means that you haven't been running for long enough and/or page faulted enough data for pagecache to grow sufficiently large.
12:31 < inthl> well but shouldn't it cache the metadata anyway in RAM, until the RAM is full, and probably unused become evicted?
12:31 < inthl> the host (2 of them, both behave similar) are up for 3 weeks by now
12:32 < azarus> inthl is feeling the opposite of this: https://www.linuxatemyram.com/
12:32 < kerframil> it's not exclusively about uptime, but also the workload that the host is subjected to
12:32 < inthl> yes, the opposite
12:32 < azarus> his ram isn't being eaten and he wants it to be eaten
12:32 < inthl> exactly
12:32 < imado> .
12:32 < searedvandal> that's a first
12:33 < azarus> point of that website is: Everything is fine! (even if your kernel isn't caching as aggresively as much as you want it to)
12:33 < inthl> the workload is high I'd say. I just wonder what I am doing wrong here since I have the feeling that the metadata cache is almost not being used
12:34 < djph> if the HDDs (SSDs) are fast enough, the system may simply not need to store in RAM
12:34 < djph> I mean, yes, drives are still crazy slow in terms of storage ... but ...
12:34 < kerframil> inthl: free(1) will give you a quick overview
12:35 < djph> *but if the actual data movement isn't actually "to/from the disk"...
12:35 < inthl> the system has NVMe and HDDs for storage, where the bottleneck is. I would think that metadata caching would improve this, honestly I have other hosts with 128G of RAM, where over 100 is used for metadata caching
12:35 < kerframil> right
12:35 < inthl> and that one is like 99% idle
12:35 < inthl> the 2 I am talking about are about 30% idle, so lots of work to do, with gazillions of files, and almost no metadata caching, 40G or RAM free all the time
12:36 < inthl> 40 of 64
12:36 < kerframil> another scenario is that you run a primary application which uses O_DIRECT or another method to skip the cache; typically because they implement specialised caching stategies of their own.
12:36 < kerframil> but in most cases, it's simply because the workload doesn't demand it. "gazillions of files" is not a description of the workload.
12:37 < inthl> well I mean't that there are no 1000 files that are being operated with all the time, there are many out of a huge pool of files which are being accessed all the time.
12:37 < azarus> well, are there metadata changes?
12:37 < azarus> many metadata*
12:38 < inthl> changes..? well yes and no, not many
12:40 < inthl> there are users working on that files, also uploading and changing the structures, but I'd say this is really minor.
12:40 < inthl> on those files
12:40 < kerframil> inthl: in that case, I would expect the use of pagecache to gradually increase as time goes by. keep in mind though that access a file doesn't just shove the whole thing into cache. disk-backed pages (where a page is 4 KiB) are faulted, upon which they are incorporated into pagecache.
12:40 < kerframil> inthl: so it can be quite a granular thing, notwithstanding the readahead buffer.
12:40 < azarus> if you're that curious about how to control caching; I suggest reading up on https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysctl/vm.txt
12:40 < azarus> but most likely, defaults are perfectly fine
12:41 < inthl> I already went over that txt
12:41 < azarus> cool
12:42 < inthl> my changes there were: dirty_ratio 90, dirty_background_ratio 80 and vfs_cache_pressure set to 1
12:42 < searedvandal> you could always try to optimize stuff with iosched and vm, but in most cases the defaults are good.
12:43 < inthl> well i tried noop, deadline and sticked to cfq, I see no significant results there. it surely simply might mean that the disks are too slow in general
12:45 < kr_217> kerframil: I want to avoid archived pathnames i.e. /a/b/c
12:46 < kerframil> kr_217: ok. just switch the working directory with -C and archive . then, as someone else mentioned.
12:48 < buoyantair> Whats a good sftp client for linux
12:49 < MrElendig> sftp
12:49 < Armand> Filezilla, for GUI
12:49 < ArlequInOut> without GUI, the command "sftp" is good, but with gui, filezilla is what you want
12:51 < MrElendig> your file manager
12:51 < MrElendig> most of them supports sftp
12:52 < kr_217> thanks kerframil and han-solo
12:52 < ArlequInOut> sshfs is good if you want to access file on sftp like file in file browser
12:55 < phinxy> Is scp and sftp related?
12:55 < MrElendig> partly
12:56 < MrElendig> they both is a part of openssh, but they work differenctly
12:56 < MrElendig> differently*
12:56 < MrElendig> uses the same transport but different protocols
12:56 < tempate> Hello. I've been working with Debian in a daily basis for a couple years now. I'm quite comfortable with it and have managed to get the hang of it quite well. Anyway, it's the only GNU/Linux distro I've really tried, so I'm kind of biased. I'm getting a new machine next week. Should I stay still with Debian or maybe try another distro?
12:57 < MrElendig> tempate: just fire up some virtual machines and play around
12:57 < tempate> alright
12:58 < tempate> sounds easy enough
12:58 < monotux> tempate, debian is nice but try Fedora if you'd like something rpm-based and more bleeding edge, or try NixOS if you want something that will really challenge you
12:58 < tempate> my current machine won't handle that most likely so I'll have to do so in the new one
12:58 < monotux> arch linux is nice if you don't have any other hobbies but fixing your computer after each upgrade
12:58 < MrElendig> mostly fud ^
12:59 < azarus> arch is pretty stable, imo
12:59 < tempate> I honestly don't want to be banging my head each time I want to download something, monotux. I would like to learn more but not quite all the time, if you know what I mean.
12:59 < azarus> (while I was using it, which I don't anymore)
12:59 < tempate> what do you use now?
12:59 < azarus> not really relevant, and highly controversial
12:59 < monotux> tempate, in that case nixos might be a bit too much of a challenge, it is very different from most other stuff I've tried.
13:00 < MrElendig> tempate: try packaging some software not in the repos on debian, and then try it on arch
13:00 < tempate> I was thinking about Fedora but I'm not sure if the best thing to do is simply to jump into rp
13:00 < MrElendig> :p
13:00 < tempate> rpm*
13:00 < monotux> MrElendig, azarus, yes, FUD but I'm not all wrong :)
13:00 < tempate> monotux: yeah, that's what I was thinking
13:00 < monotux> AUR is really nice for simple packages
13:00 < oiaohm> monotux: when nix works it not that horrible.
13:00 < MrElendig> monotux: not talking about using aur, but making the packages yourself
13:00 < monotux> oiaohm, it just has a certain learning curve
13:01 < tempate> MrElendig: is it easier on arch?
13:01 < MrElendig> a hell of a lot easier
13:01 < monotux> oiaohm, I'm using nixos on most of my machines, servers, desktops and laptops, but it is a bit more cumbersome to handle non-packaged software
13:02 < azarus> I really like alpine linux, but I might be biased as I also am a maintainer of some packages there
13:02 < monotux> tempate, try FreeBSD if you'd like to learn something new, it is not as much of a learning curve as nixos/etc but it is a really nice piece of software
13:02 < monotux> unless you'd like to game
13:02 < azarus> Also, OpenBSD <3
13:02 < oiaohm> monotux: Linux from scratch I class as the worst end.
13:02 < monotux> oiaohm, I work with buildroot at work =)
13:02 < tempate> monotux: nah, not a gamer
13:03 < MrElendig> lfs is a book and some tools to help you create a new distro
13:03 < MrElendig> it is not a distro itself
13:03 < tempate> monotux: is it good for a day to day basis, though?
13:03 < oiaohm> monotux: so my define of not that horrible might be a little distorted
13:03 < azarus> Is there LFS, but with simple tools such as busybox and OpenRC?
13:03 < monotux> MrElendig, nixos is arguably the same as well
13:03 < MrElendig> re fbsd: portage could do with a big overhaul
13:04 < azarus> freebsd doesn't use portage
13:04 < oiaohm> MrElendig: when you pick up distribution someone has built from LFS and not documented what they have done its right up there in the horrible pile.
13:04 < MrElendig> monotux: nixos provides buildfiles/packages
13:04 < MrElendig> azarus: ports, whatever they call it
13:04 < monotux> tempate, yes, it is highly stable, most software runs there and if you could live without wayland you'll be very happy with fbsd
13:04 < azarus> MrElendig: yup. portage is strictly a gentoo thing
13:04 < MrElendig> azarus: cloned from ports :p
13:04 < oiaohm> MrElendig: particularly when they could not pick a package manager and is a managled beast of rpm,deb, tgz and something script nasty.
13:04 < azarus> FreeBSD has wayland, for the "me too" rights
13:04  * azarus sticks with X11
13:05 < MrElendig> oiaohm: even better, when they decided that package managers are bloat
13:06 < oiaohm> MrElendig: decided package manager is bloat is better than package managers with each other not depenacy solving properly having to use force and pray.
13:06 < MrElendig> make install is even more messy, because then you have nothing at all
13:07 < MrElendig> no idea what flags they used etc
13:07 < adsc> you can redirect the output of all of your commands to files and save those as documentation
13:07 < MrElendig> atleast with a package manager you hopefully have the specfiles etc
13:07 < oiaohm> MrElendig: worse thing about those without dependancy solving properly you by mistake run update on the package manager and automatically uninstalls a big block of the system attempting to fix dependancy problems.
13:07 < adsc> save it together with your bash history
13:08 < oiaohm> MrElendig: installed by make install is safer than mixed package managers a sneeze away from deleting most of the system.
13:08 < MrElendig> oiaohm: bumblebee issue 123
13:08 < MrElendig> *cough*
13:10 < oiaohm> MrElendig: that is a fairly funny bug https://github.com/Bumblebee-Project/Bumblebee/issues/123  You attempt to change graphics drivers and it loses the mouse.
13:12 < MrElendig> and it deletes /usr
13:12 < MrElendig> https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee-Old-and-abbandoned/issues/123
13:14 < oiaohm> MrElendig: so both bumblebee 123 bugs are quite wacky just that one is kind of worse.
13:15 < MrElendig> patch thread is sort of fun to read too https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee-Old-and-abbandoned/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6f1dafc8beb84f2ac
13:16 < MrElendig> sadly the best image in that thread is gone due to silly hosting
13:16 < oiaohm> MrElendig: yes stuff like that in high custom distributions are quite normal.   One of the worst was finding that by alias tar was set to --remove-files and add to achive kind of made it fun if you attempted to extract content.
13:16 < MrElendig> sidenote: linux kernel had a similar bug for years
13:17 < MrElendig> but no one had ran the cleanup script as root and therefor no one noticed it for ages
13:17 < oiaohm> MrElendig: there have been about 20 different bugs I know of in Linux kernel history that would nuke /usr
13:17 < oiaohm> MrElendig: mind you my time with Linux starts in 1995
13:17 < oiaohm> MrElendig: roughtly 1 every year for a while.
13:17 < MrElendig> one of the make clean scripts would really clean everything, including /
13:18 < oiaohm> Yep something did exactly what it said it would.
13:18 < oiaohm> Just no user ever wanted that.
13:18 < oiaohm> You hope.
13:19 < oiaohm> MrElendig: was that the old total_clean option.
13:19 < oiaohm> MrElendig: that seamed like it had been added as a really scary joke.
13:19 < MrElendig> can't remember which of the targets it was
13:20 < oiaohm> I cannot think of one in recent years.
13:21 < oiaohm> Hopefully no one can add another one.
13:22 < MrElendig> was ages ago, too bad the lkml is pretty much impossible to search
13:23 < w3b573r> hi
13:24 < Sveta> hi w3b573r
13:25 < w3b573r> hi sveta
13:27 < babloo> Hi
13:28 < babloo> will any be able to help me in centos 7 installation
13:28 < MrElendig> #centos might
13:29 < babloo> iam not allowed there not sure it shows banned
13:30 < root__> whois
13:31 < Sveta> oops
13:32 < Sveta> babloo: use a non-webchat irc client
13:32 < Sveta> babloo: such as quassel irc
13:32 < Sveta> babloo: centos channel banned webchat, because it was abused there, alas
13:32 < root__> hai
13:33 < searedvandal> hey root
13:33 < babloo> oh ok
13:33 < babloo> thanks
13:33 < MrElendig> babloo: just use a proper irc client instead of the web one
13:33 < babloo> i am reusing IRC after 5 years now
13:33 < MrElendig> babloo: hexchat or weechat
13:33 < Sveta> welcome back
13:34 < babloo> after i left linux i didnt use irc :)
13:34 < babloo> good to be back
13:34 < babloo> thanks MrElendig
13:34 < MrElendig> babloo: centos bans the web client probably due to all the misuse by trolls/spammers and the like
13:34 < babloo> thanks Sveta
13:37 < babloo> ok thanks bye
13:39 < zapotah> irssi
13:39 < zapotah> join us, we have perl
13:43 < mawk> no zapotah
13:43 < mawk> everyone knows that weechat is better
13:43 < mawk> stop trying to confuse the minds of our youth
13:44 < djph> irssi > weechat :P
13:44 < djph> vim > nano
13:44 < djph> uhhh
13:44 < djph> sysvinit > systemd
13:44 < mawk> my android teacher is making vim propaganda discretly alongside her class
13:44  * djph goes to look for more things to start a holy war
13:45 < mawk> in the final assignment git repository I have to submit a .vimrc tailored for android system programming
13:45 < mawk> but I use emacs
13:46 < monotux> that sounds like a strange assignment
13:46 < monotux> but if she says so just do it
13:46 < mawk> it's not the only thing to submit
13:46 < darsie> My midnight commander ssh link timed out during computer suspend and now I get Cannot chdir to "/sh://pi@192.168.0.199". Any other way other than restart mc?
13:47 < djph> it's strange that she'd ask for a vimrc
13:49 < AndroidKitKat> mawk: can you use a vim plugin manager?
13:49 < AndroidKitKat> Just grab a bunch of things from vim-awesome
13:49 < mawk> yeah probably
13:49 < AndroidKitKat> and I always include this in my .vimrc
13:49 < AndroidKitKat> let me get it
13:49 < AndroidKitKat> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/4pudWQWS/
13:50 < AndroidKitKat> pretty handy imo
13:50 < AndroidKitKat> lets you pick up from where you left odd
13:50 < AndroidKitKat> off
13:51 < mawk> I see
13:51 < mawk> thanks
13:51 < AndroidKitKat> np
13:51 < Exterminador> hi guys! stupid question: folder /etc/letsencrypt/live/domain.com/ is owned by root. I'd like to give read permission only to another user too. what is the correct chmod? thanks in advance
13:51 < AndroidKitKat> other than that, what lang are you writing the apps in?
13:51 < AndroidKitKat> Java or Kotlin?
13:53 < AndroidKitKat> I think you need to add that folder with read access to a group, and then add that user to that group
13:53 < AndroidKitKat> I couldn't tell you how to properly do it
13:53 < mawk> we're not writing apps I think
13:53 < mawk> I never went to that class
13:53 < mawk> but it's system programming
13:53 < mawk> knowing that teacher it is in C
13:56 < djph> Exterminador: 755, files inside should be 644.
13:56 < AndroidKitKat> mawk: you in uni?
13:56 < Exterminador> djph: tks!
13:56 < djph> assuming they're PUBLIC certificates. Private keys should be 600
13:56 < mawk> no AndroidKitKat , engineer school
13:57 < AndroidKitKat> cpeg?
13:57 < AndroidKitKat> or cs?
13:57 < AndroidKitKat> im CS
13:57 < AndroidKitKat> was going to do cpeg but i hate learning EE
13:57 < mawk> lol
13:57 < mawk> I don't know these acronyms, I'm french
13:57 < AndroidKitKat> ah
13:57 < AndroidKitKat> Computer Engineering?
13:57 < mawk> but it's not computer science
13:57 < AndroidKitKat> ah
13:58 < mawk> well there is a bit of that, tho
13:58 < AndroidKitKat> Computer Engineering is Comp Sci + Electrical Engineering
13:58 < AndroidKitKat> bad stuff
13:59 < Exterminador> djph: well, for that specific user I need that privkey.pem be readable too. and as I'm the only one using the machine, I don't think that's a security problem
13:59 < mawk> but it's more differentiated in favor of programming
13:59 < mawk> I took the embedded computing major
14:00 < mawk> title is "real-time and embedded systems"
14:01 < azarus> "remember, real time is not about performance!!"
14:01 < xinobi> sudo rm -rf is not working I get Directory not empty any advise?
14:02 < JimBuntu> xinobi, are you IN the directory that you want to remove?
14:02 < xinobi> JimBuntu: yes, I'm using bash but this is osx
14:02 < xinobi> I guess it's relatively different
14:03 < JimBuntu> xinobi, then you want to move out of it... so, `cd ..` then try to rm -rf /path/to/dir`
14:03 < azarus> asking questions about mac OS in ##linux... genius
14:03 < xinobi> but sudo rm -rf it should work
14:04 < xinobi> JimBuntu: I'm out of the directory I'm not that noob ;)
14:05 < xinobi> I'm just curious why it doesn't work I've checked the permissions and ownership as well everything ok
14:05 < djph> Exterminador: then make privkey owned by that user (e.g. www-data)
14:06 < xinobi> I can delete other files, but this one is in .Trash and it's undeletable
14:06 < djph> Exterminador: ... or rather, make apache start as root to load the keys, then drop back to whatever user
14:06 < Exterminador> djph: the problem is that I also need it to be owned by root :)
14:06 < JimBuntu> xinobi, I am looking at the man page for it. I see -d to attempt to remove directories as well
14:06 < djph> Exterminador: yeah, brain-fart on the file ... need more coffee
14:07 < Exterminador> djph: probably the best approach would be to copy the content of the folder to said user and chown the copied files?
14:07 < xinobi> JimBuntu: sudo rm -d blender-2.78a-OSX_10.6-x86_64/ -> rm: blender-2.78a-OSX_10.6-x86_64/: Directory not empty
14:08 < xinobi> JimBuntu: even: sudo chflags noschg blender-2.78a-OSX_10.6-x86_64/ followed by sudo rm -rf ...  it's completely crazy
14:09 < JimBuntu> xinobi, I had no issue removing a directory with a directory inside it via 'rm -rf NAME' just now, in Darwin/macOS. Agreed, something else is going on
14:09 < xinobi> JimBuntu: completetly
14:10 < Exterminador> could be the trailing slash? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
14:10 < xinobi> Exterminador: nope
14:11 < djph> Exterminador: no, keep as tight of a lid on your private keys as possible.
14:11 < Exterminador> djph: noted
14:12 < djph> Exterminador: why's "not root" need to read the file anyway?
14:13 < Exterminador> djph: it's an IRC server and I need it to read the fullchain.pem and privkey.pem to have valid TLS connection
14:15 < Exterminador> although I'm the only user with access to that machine, I was trying to avoid to change much parameters regarding reading sensitive files
14:15 < djph> normally, a server should fire up as root to read stuff like that, and then fall back to not-root once that's done.
14:16 < Exterminador> well, IRCd won't start as root even
14:16 < djph> should be, iirc, suid
14:17 < Exterminador> djph: I'll try the 755 to the folder and 644 to the files inside it and if that works, it's good enough
14:18 < Dan39> Exterminador: i've done exactly what you want with my ircd, let me look what i did
14:18 < Dan39> definitely doesnt need suid or start as root, i run as normal user
14:18 < Exterminador> Dan39: cool! lemme know as soon as you know what you've done exactly
14:18 < Exterminador> :)
14:19 < elichai2> Hey, I have something weird going on. I have a tcp socket with subscription. now if I can both server&client on my machine it works great but if the server is on AWS EC2 instance (the port is open), it get's timedout. using tcpdumped I noticed the client sends a SYN and recives ACK-RST. anyone have any idea why?
14:19 < elichai2> ( that's the python code: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/xUyUdeKUIWchvTnoPux5/)
14:20 < Dan39> Exterminador: i have the cert and key o+r...
14:21 < Dan39> but if you are on a shared system that probably isn't a good idea to have the key o+r
14:21 < unyu> Sorry for the noob question. Is it possible to install several versions of freetype and fontconfig side by side?
14:21 < Exterminador> well, it's a VPS, and I'm the only one with access to it via pub keys (no password login whatsoever)
14:22 < MrElendig> unyu: depends on the distro, but why?
14:22 < Dan39> Exterminador: what distro? ACLs turned on?
14:22 < Exterminador> Dan39: Ubuntu 18.04 LTS
14:22 < Dan39> Exterminador: thatll probably be a no by default then
14:23 < Dan39> Exterminador: i wonder if it would be fine to change the file's group to your user
14:23 < Dan39> not sure how picky certbot is
14:23 < unyu> MrElendig: The reason is that Mathematica doesn't work with the latest version of freetype and fontconfig on Arch's repositories. I know it has been quite a while since the freetype and fontconfig packages were updated, but that means I have had that problem for that long a while.
14:23 < Exterminador> Dan39: I suppose not, since the web chat will run under another user and will need to read the same files
14:23 < MrElendig> unyu: use a container
14:23 < unyu> Oh.
14:24 < Dan39> Exterminador: then create a new group
14:24 < MrElendig> unyu: instead of having to pollute your system with old insecure software
14:24 < Exterminador> I like to run each thing under a different user (IRCd, webchat, and so on)
14:24 < Dan39> Exterminador: create an "ircdkeys" group and add both the ircd and webchat users to it?
14:24 < unyu> MrElendig: That makes sense. I will read more about those. Thanks for the pointer.
14:24 < Dan39> then set the key's group to that...?
14:24 < Exterminador> Dan39: that could work, probably
14:25 < Dan39> the cert doesnt really matter, doesn't have to be secure
14:25 < MrElendig> unyu: or yell at them to get them to update, or switch to something free
14:25 < Exterminador> yeah, my concern is the privkey
14:25 < Dan39> Exterminador: the concern is a service running as another user, like httpd, getting access to the key
14:25 < unyu> MrElendig: I would love to use a free software alternative, actually. But my professors distribute Mathematica notebooks.
14:26 < azarus> gnu octave?
14:26 < unyu> Octave is more of an alternative to MATLAB. And I indeed use Octave whenever my professors would use MATLAB.
14:27 < azarus> Sorry, didn't know :( But cool that you use it!
14:29 < Exterminador> thanks for the help guys! very appreciated, as I'm a noob regarding VPS management. ;)
14:29 < Dan39> Exterminador: get it working?
14:30 < Dan39> Exterminador: ive found letsencrypt kind of a pain with ircd since it has to be renewed every 3 months
14:30 < cristian_c> hello
14:30 < Dan39> but you can automate it depending on the ircd
14:30 < Dan39> hi cristian_c
14:30 < cristian_c> I've built and installed easycap smi driver (kernel module)
14:30  * Dan39 gives cristian_c a gold star!
14:31 < pxfgod> Linux uses a 1-1 threading model, with (to the kernel) no distinction between processes and threads -- everything is simply a runnable task. IS THAT STATEMENT ABOVE TRUE IN NOWADAYS' KERNEL?
14:31 < azarus> yup
14:31 < cristian_c> I've got driver sources from github repository (via AUR on archlinux, and via github in ubuntu)
14:32 < cristian_c> I've also loaded firmware too (in addition to driver loading)
14:33 < cristian_c> so, I've started vlc and I've connected easycap dongle to input source and to usb port
14:34 < cristian_c>  if I look at dmesg output I see a large amount of messages (all them almost the same message)
14:34 < Dan39> is this going anywhere cristian_c ...
14:36 < cristian_c> 'smi2021 Skip broken frame N line, but need 240 in current 480 height'
14:36 < cristian_c> where N is an integer number
14:37 < cristian_c> vlc screen is always blank, btw
14:39 < cristian_c> so, how could I solve this issue, in order to grab video from the device?
14:39 < cristian_c> any ideas?
14:52 < Sabotender> hey MrElendig are you around?
14:52 < MrElendig> sort of
15:00 < ALowther_> Hello, how can I prioritize network configurations. I am connected to ethernet and wifi, of which, only the ethernet is connected to WAN. But for some reason pages are failing to load, I assume because my machine is trying to route over wifi which is connected to nothing. How can I tell it to route everything over eth? I have already checked Metric in 'route -n' and eth is lower.
15:02 < GodOfsea> Hey
15:02 < tyzoid> ALowther_: I'd just delete the routes over wifi
15:02 < tyzoid> check your default route via `ip route`, then add a new one for eth
15:03 < tyzoid> The default one is probably over your wifi connection
15:03 < GodOfsea> Something weird is going on in my linux
15:06 < ALowther_> tyzoid: Cool, thanks
15:07 < GodOfsea> https://paste.linux.community/view/0f80dfc6
15:08 < GodOfsea> The last stanza is unexpected
15:08 < GodOfsea> I get the last stanza everytime I do it
15:09 < tyzoid> GodOfsea: Should still work if you put it into the bind config
15:09 < tyzoid> I get the same thing you do
15:09 < tyzoid> but since I use an external dns provider, I remove the newlines / quotes and put it into a textbox on a web interface
15:10 < GodOfsea> Well I am using linode , as DNS manager , it doesnt support double quotes in records
15:10 < GodOfsea> So I just , place the 2nd stanza right beside the 1st 1 ?
15:10 < GodOfsea> With just a space ?
15:11 < tyzoid> Well you need it to be a txt record
15:11 < tyzoid> so grab everything from v=DKIM1;
15:11 < tyzoid> and stop at the close paren
15:11 < GodOfsea> yes , its dkim , so its text record
15:11 < tyzoid> delete newlines and quotes
15:12 < GodOfsea> ohh ok and what about 5 spaces ?
15:12 < GodOfsea> in between them
15:12 < tyzoid> GodOfsea: Doesn't really matter, but I'd clean it up.
15:13 < tyzoid> for comparison, you can see my record: dig mail._domainkey.tyzoid.com TXT
15:14 < GodOfsea> where's that other double quoted stanza after p parameter ?
15:14 < GodOfsea> its not there
15:15 < Sabotender> MrElendig: do you know how to secure erase a nvme drive under linux?
15:16 < GodOfsea> tyzoid: you mixed them ?
15:16 < Sabotender> I was getting ready to pack this thing up and send it back for warranty replacement, when I discovered some sensitive data on the drive. I thought I had moved everything OFF this drive (stupid dropbox not going where I want it to)
15:17 < Sabotender> MrElendig: HDPRAM doesn't work with this type of SSD
15:17 < tyzoid> GodOfsea: No, it's there
15:17 < Sabotender> it says 'inappropriate ioctl for device'
15:17 < MrElendig> nvme do have a secure erase, how secure it is varies from device to device
15:17 < tyzoid> GodOfsea: Bind will concatenate those strings for you. Since you're not using bind, you need to concatenate the strings to put into your dns host
15:17 < Sabotender> I was trying to do some research and I came across the command 'fstrim' but I dont know
15:18 < Sabotender> MrElendig: the problem is that ADATA does have a vendor specific applictation for such erasures, but surprise surprise...windows only
15:18 < GodOfsea> tyzoid: https://paste.linux.community/view/c617d826
15:18 < GodOfsea> Ok
15:18 < GodOfsea> I will try that
15:18 < MrElendig> Sabotender: and how much do you trust adata....
15:19 < Sabotender> not very much since this device I haven't owned not even six months and it has failed
15:19 < MrElendig> other than that nvme-format -S ....
15:19 < MrElendig> see the man page for details
15:20 < MrElendig> (part of nvme-cli)
15:21 < GodOfsea> tyzoid: all the "\" are new lines ?
15:21 < W3B573R> hai
15:22 < tyzoid> GodOfsea: Where are you seeing backslashes?
15:22 < Sabotender> no manual entry for nvme-cli
15:22 < GodOfsea> dig mail._domainkey.openapprentice.org TXT
15:22 < GodOfsea> Try this
15:23 < tyzoid> GodOfsea: Yeah, you needed to remove the quote characters
15:23 < MrElendig> Sabotender: man nvme-format
15:23 < GodOfsea> tyzoid:  quote characters are " right ?
15:24 < MrElendig> W3B573R: you should not irc as root
15:24 < GodOfsea> I removed them , but looks like it seperated the key at "/"
15:24 < Sabotender> no manual entry for nvme-format
15:24 < MrElendig> Sabotender: helps if you actually install it
15:24 < MrElendig> it is a part of the nvme-cli project
15:25 < MrElendig> <yourpackagemanger> install nvme-cli
15:25 < MrElendig> man page is also available online
15:25 < tyzoid> GodOfsea: Not sure what you mean, you don't need any quote or newlines
15:26 < tyzoid> the key is base64 encoded
15:26 < GodOfsea> PM ?
15:26 < jim>  AM? FM?
15:27 < MrElendig> LSB/USB?
15:27 < MrElendig> CWD?
15:27 < GodOfsea> Yo jim :D
15:28 < jim> those are TLAs, not TLAs...
15:28 < xoxo> https://www.hastebin.com/juxiricite.pas <- can someone tell me how to run this command ?
15:28 < Armand> So long as they aren't SLAs
15:28 < xoxo> line 1 is my attempt
15:28 < GodOfsea> what ?
15:28 < jim> GodOfsea, hi, how's it going
15:28 < qrvpzvb> so, systemd fails to boot when I have a disk connected
15:29 < GodOfsea> Good , no exams , working on a opensource project
15:29 < leftyfb> xoxo: "new" needs to be a folder
15:29 < GodOfsea> openapprentice.org
15:29 < GodOfsea> trying to setup email servers
15:29 < MrElendig> qrvpzvb: post errors
15:29 < leftyfb> xoxo: also, you need to specify the first and last page to extract. Just like the message tells you
15:29 < MrElendig> qrvpzvb: smells like you not using UUID/LABEL
15:30 < xoxo> leftyfb: new is a folder
15:30 < qrvpzvb> MrElendig: I can't it wents into emergency mode
15:30 < MrElendig> so?
15:30 < qrvpzvb> MrElendig: also, that disk is not in fstab
15:30 < MrElendig> you can post from there
15:30 < xoxo> leftyfb: java -jar pdf2table_win.jar pdf2table laa.pdf new 3 3 still doesnt work
15:30 < MrElendig> you can inspect which disk is which label
15:30 < jim> xoxo, looks like you did run the jar, but then the jar (not java itself) threw a usage message
15:30 < xoxo> oh
15:30 < MrElendig> s/label/device in \/dev/
15:30 < MrElendig> are you using uuid in fstab/bootloader?
15:31 < qrvpzvb> it's not showing up
15:31 < qrvpzvb> at all
15:31 < xoxo> jim: how do i fix that
15:31 < jim> xoxo, is 'new' an existing dir?
15:31 < xoxo> yes
15:31 < MrElendig> what is the full error?
15:32 < qrvpzvb> I think it's just the fsck that fails
15:32 < jim> and laa.pdf is an existing pdf in the current dir?
15:32 < qrvpzvb> though, that disk is NTFS and I have no fsck for that
15:32 < xoxo> jim: yes
15:33 < MrElendig> normally it won't automount random disks unless you have configured to do so
15:33  * MrElendig suggests posting the error
15:33 < qrvpzvb> i'll have to reboot to see it
15:34 < jim> ok, maybe try specifying f and l
15:34 < xoxo> jim: fixed
15:34 < jim> the usage message say they're optional, but maybe not
15:34 < jim> xoxo, how did you fix it?
15:35 < Sabotender> nvme admin command error: invalid_format(10a)
15:35 < forgon> Does someone know a good link listing typical Linux file locations for various purposes in depth?
15:35 < xoxo> jim: the pdf wasnt in the folder :p
15:35 < forgon> for example /usr/bin /usr/local/share /opt /etc ...
15:36 < jim> oh ok :) (that's not your fault, the command should have said "can't open file" probably (would have been quicker for you to figure it out)
15:36 < qrvpzvb> it didn't happen this boot...
15:36 < jim> )
15:37 < jim> forgon, maybe the filesystem hierarchy standard?
15:37 < qrvpzvb> right, I think it's the drive order
15:37 < qrvpzvb> I should use UUID I guess
15:37 < triceratux> forgon: https://wiki.debian.org/FilesystemHierarchyStandard ?
15:37 < Sabotender> MrElendig: i get that error above
15:38 < MrElendig> Sabotender: would have to talk to the hw maker then
15:38 < azarus> forgon: http://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/index.html
15:38 < azarus> the "Filesystem Hierarchy Standard"
15:38 < MrElendig> if you used the correct flags for nvme-format
15:38 < Sabotender> i see
15:38 < MrElendig> even when it works it might not be quite as secure as you think
15:38 < Sabotender> I used this : nvme format /dev/nvme0 --namespace-id=1 --ses=1 --pi=1
15:39 < MrElendig> some devices claim they securely erased all the things and then didn't
15:39 < forgon> \jim \triceratux \azarus: Thanks.
15:39 < MrElendig> eg wd had some drives that would throw away the key, but there would still be a "backdoor" key hardcoded in the chip.......
15:39 < MrElendig> which ofcourse people discovered
15:40 < triceratux> https://www.linux.com/learn/look-filesystem-hierarchy-standard-30
15:40 < azarus> forgon: why the backslashes? :P
15:40 < MrElendig> forgon: also https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/file-hierarchy.html
15:41 < Sabotender> this is very frusturating
15:41 < MrElendig> forgon: for a more modern approach
15:41 < MrElendig> Sabotender: just zero it the old way?
15:41  * Sabotender shrugs
15:41 < MrElendig> though some drives might optimise away all 0's
15:41 < Sabotender> dont know how
15:41 < djph> drillbit through the platter?
15:41 < MrElendig> dd if=/dev/zero of=....
15:41 < Sabotender> also I was told that doesnt work for solid state discs
15:41 < djph> ohwait, nvme ... drillbit through the chip(s)
15:42 < MrElendig> djph: data have been recovered from disks that have been shot multiple times so.....
15:42 < MrElendig> more reliable on ssds
15:42 < MrElendig> than on hdds
15:42 < Sabotender> run the platters though a wood chipper
15:42 < Sabotender> :-P
15:42 < djph> MrElendig: oxy-acetylene?
15:43 < MrElendig> induction heater
15:43 < qrvpzvb> MrElendig: ok, so the problem was that the drive order was messed up... I could UUIDs, but for now, I just changed the SATA ports around 'cause I'm lazy
15:43 < MrElendig> qrvpzvb: use uuid, takes no time to convert
15:44 < MrElendig> you can actuall pipe output from findmnt to fstab and it would work
15:44 < MrElendig> (with the correct flags)
15:44 < qrvpzvb> actually, my fstab does use UUIDs
15:45 < qrvpzvb> it's probably my syslinux setup
15:45 < MrElendig> root=UUID=whatever
15:47 < MrElendig> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUiPBTnSNuk
15:47 < kerframil> note, UUID is supported natively in /etc/fstab, but not the kernel
15:47 < MrElendig> any modern kernel accepts UUID just fine
15:47 < MrElendig> (unless you did silly things when building it yourself)
15:48 < MrElendig> can also use /dev/disk/by-id/.....
15:48 < MrElendig> s/id/uuid/
15:48 < kerframil> that's not true. it requires functionality implemented in the initramfs. the kernel only understands PARTUUID. I realise that many mainstream distros build initramfs images that do exactly that, but this is still an important distinction.
15:49 < MrElendig> kerframil: statement still stands, there are very few reasons for not using a initramfs these days
15:49 < kerframil> sure, if it works in your distro, go ahead and use it. I've no qualm with that. it's just useful to understand how things work.
15:50 < jim> and some dists build an initramfs when you do things like install a kernel (and update that initramfs when you do certain other things)
15:50 < kerframil> formats understood by the kernel itself are detailed in a comment in init/do_mounts.c
15:51 < kerframil> (and /dev/disk/by-id/* isn't one of them either)
15:51 < w3b573r> hi
15:51 < jim> and, this is an argument about where something is implemented... :)
15:51 < jim> hi
15:52 < kerframil> it's not an argument. a "modern kernel" does not accept UUID. this is a fact. it doesn't even understand what UUID means. anyone can read do_mounts.c to verify that. the initramfs has to do the lifting in that case. that's all.
15:53 < w3b573r> any one know hacking ssh
15:53 < Iridos> I am building a program and icc complains that it cannot find unistd.h. That's in /usr/include… shouldn't that come from some default include path? And if so, how would one determine that default include path
15:53 < jim> w3b573r, like what?
15:53 < leftyfb> w3b573r: ttps://youtu.be/KEkrWRHCDQU
15:53 < leftyfb> w3b573r: https://youtu.be/KEkrWRHCDQU
15:55 < Gnjurac> can i use ls
15:55 < Gnjurac> and grep as input parementer
15:56 < Gnjurac> sudo dpkg -i    asInput  ls | grep *.deb
15:56 < leftyfb> Gnjurac: sudo dpkg -i *.deb
15:57 < Gnjurac> i figured out zilion time when i do stuff in terminal i would be able to do it faster whit grep
15:57 < Gnjurac> leftyfb:  does *. work only for  dpkg ?
15:57 < w3b573r> leftyfb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEkrWRHCDQU great
15:57 < Gnjurac> can i example mousepad   *.txt and it will open evry txt in folder or what?
15:58 < Gnjurac> will try ti
15:58 < kerframil> Gnjurac: yes, it's called pathname expansion. it's exactly that property that means that a command like `ls | grep *.deb` makes no sense.
15:59 < kerframil> Gnjurac: firstly, *.deb is a bogus regex. secondly, if you have any files ending in .deb in your curent working directory, the shell would expand them all to a list of words. those words would then all be passed as parameters to grep.
16:00 < Gnjurac> ty for explanation
16:00 < kerframil> in short, if you specify a glob, and the shell is able to match that glob to one or more files/paths, then that expansion is performed before your command is launched
16:00 < kerframil> be it mousepad, grep or anything else
16:00 < kerframil> if the glob doesn't match anything then it stays literally as it is
16:01 < kerframil> anyways, globs are useful. learn then, and use them well (and leave grep for the things it is good at).
16:07 < Sabotender> MrElendig: I am trying the shred command
16:07 < Sabotender> because everything else that ive tried just wouldnt work
16:15 < kerframil> Sabotender: if it's an SSD, use the ATA Secure Erase method
16:16 < Sabotender> dont know how, and I am tired of crap simply not working for reasons that I can't understand and that people are unable to explain and that I am unable to research on the net
16:16 < kerframil> Sabotender: https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/SSD_Secure_Erase
16:17 < MrElendig> kerframil: problem is that the hardware makers sucks and lies
16:17 < MrElendig> kerframil: why implement the standard secure erase when you can make it a prorpietary feature
16:17 < MrElendig> that only works using a magic driver which only runs on windows
16:18 < Sabotender> right and the offending nvme drive IS my windows drive so I am stuck using an Ubuntu Live USB session
16:18 < kerframil> MrElendig: not sure that really applies in this case. standard operating procedure for mass-market SSDs is to employ encryption (transparently) at all times. so a secure erase just spins a new encryption key, rendering the existing data useless. hence, it is also fast.
16:18 < MrElendig> kerframil: he tried, it failed
16:19 < MrElendig> kerframil: btw, see what I wrote about eg WD failing
16:19 < kerframil> MrElendig: I missed that. is it an NVMe drive, by any chance?
16:19 < MrElendig> yes
16:19 < Sabotender> I tried hdpram (said something about invalid ioctl device) tried the one that MrElendig recommended and that didnt really work either :-(
16:19 < kerframil> ah, yes
16:19 < MrElendig> kerframil: WD had a nice feature where it had a key hardcoded in the hardware
16:20 < MrElendig> kerframil: which would always decrypt the data
16:20 < Dan39> ugh
16:21 < kerframil> Sabotender: in that case, try the blkdiscard command. it will simply instruct the drive to discard (trim) all of its sectors. it may take some minutes to completely take effect, but with deterministic-zero-at-trim, the result should be that the drive is effectively zeroed and bereft of any garbage that needs subsequent collection.
16:21 < MrElendig> there was also the bruteforce attack
16:21 < Sabotender> ill research the command
16:21 < MrElendig> fstrim will tell it do do that
16:22 < kerframil> sure, but why build a filesystem to do that when you can just do it at the block level (if a full wipe is the goal)?
16:22 < kerframil> also, I concede that malicious firmware is a potential threat
16:22 < MrElendig> +too
16:24 < MrElendig> wasn't even intentionally malicious
16:24 < kerframil> that's very bad
16:24 < Sabotender> blkdiscard /dev/nvme0n1 : BLKDISCARD ioctl failed : Operation not supported
16:25 < kerframil> hmm, that's a surprise
16:25 < MrElendig> not with adata :p
16:25 < kerframil> ah
16:25 < Sabotender> I used "sudo blkdiscard -s -v /dev/nvme0n1"
16:25 < kerframil> oh
16:25 < kerframil> drop -s
16:25 < kerframil> a regular discard should do the job
16:25 < kerframil> if it's accepted ...
16:26 < Sabotender> blkdiscard: /dev/nvme01: BLKDISCARD ioctl failed: Input/Output error
16:26 < kerframil> just checking but are you sure you're using the right device node?
16:26 < pennTeller> Guys, when I compile a Linux Kernel into a bzImage, is a bzImage something I can put into a USB and boot from it?
16:26 < kerframil> you seem to be alternating a little there
16:27 < MrElendig> you forgot a n there
16:27 < Sabotender> its a typo
16:27 < Sabotender> I have to type out all this stuff manually as I am working from a different computer
16:27 < MrElendig> is this a disk you are throwing away due to it being broken?
16:27 < MrElendig> no network?
16:27 < Sabotender> no, its a disc I am trying to erase so I can return and get a warranty replacement
16:28 < MrElendig> Sabotender: so what I said
16:28 < Sabotender> MrElendig: its linux, why does that surprise you? it hardly ever works out of the box with wireless
16:28 < MrElendig> eh, wireless generally works
16:28 < MrElendig> some distroes who doesn't ship certain firmware due to politics can be a bit of a trouble though
16:28 < Sabotender> generally my behind. I have never had wireless 'just work' on any of my various computers, but that is neither here nor there
16:29 < jim> pennTeller, I believe so... when I was compiling kernels at first, I booted from floppy, and all I had to do was dd the bzimage to the floppy and then set its root fs
16:29 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Heh, Now that I have my MBUSBs in hand again... I managed to get the SwagArch stuff working totally and completely off just the ISO loopback method with actually less trouble..
16:30 < pennTeller> jim thanks, how does one set the root fs now a days?
16:30 < Sabotender> MrElendig: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GjWBn8w5hs/
16:30 < Sabotender> I dont think I can erase this disc even if I Wanted to
16:30 < Sabotender> take a look at that data
16:30 < Sabotender> I was hoping I would still be able to erase it
16:30 < MrElendig> with IO errors trim is unlikely to work
16:30 < Dan39> just look at it
16:31 < Psi-Jack> Buuut, then the installation just failed. Le-sigh..
16:31 < kerframil> pennTeller: usually not directly. in principle, you could if (a) your kernel was built with CONFIG_EFI_STUB=y (b) you are booting with UEFI (c) your USB drive is formatted as FAT32 and the kernel image is situated appopriately beneath the EFI/ directory (d) your UEFI firmware allows you to specify and pass the relevant options and/or you registered an entry with efibootmgr.
16:31 < jim> nowadays? you could install grub to the usb, and then put a root=/dev/somenode on its kernel command line
16:31 < Psi-Jack> Oh, duh. forgot to connect it to the network.
16:31  * MrElendig would use a initramfs too
16:31 < jim> but, I don't remember the command I used to set the root in the kernel
16:32 < kerframil> pennTeller: the stub means that the kernel is a valid UEFI executable and that you can thus forgo a traditional bootloader. in practice, it wouldn't necessarily be so easy and you're probably best off using a traditional bootloader.
16:32 < Sabotender> MrElendig: its not just that, look at 'available spare'
16:32 < pennTeller> kerframil, thank you for the info
16:32 < pennTeller> jim thanks Jim, I appreciate the help
16:32 < jim> right... if you don't use (something like) an initrd, then you have to make sure everything needed to mount / is compiled into the kernel (i.e., not as a module)
16:33 < MrElendig> I wouldn't really worry about the data on it unless a pointy haired boss told me to do so
16:33 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: welcome to swagarch. what does your loopback grub2 stanza look like ? id like to stop extracting that squashfs every month
16:33 < MrElendig> in which case I would physically destroy the thing and have him pay for the replacement
16:33 < Sabotender> MrElendig: it has some of my private data on it
16:33 < Sabotender> I thought it did not but it does
16:33 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: I'll paste it in a few. In the middle of trying to install off it.
16:33 < MrElendig> unlikely that they will go digging after it
16:34 < Sabotender> I think this drive is stuck in 'read only' mode
16:34 < MrElendig> specially since it might involve having to unsolder the chips and possibly decap them
16:34 < Sabotender> thats the thing. who knows what Adata is going to do with it
16:34 < Sabotender> no no, the drive is frozen in read only mode
16:34 < Sabotender> you can read from the drive just fine
16:34 < MrElendig> if you really care, consider the 200usd lost and just get a new one
16:34 < Sabotender> you just cant do anything else to it
16:34  * Sabotender sighs
16:34 < Sabotender> I am going to call and complain to newegg
16:34 < kerframil> Sabotender: that's definitely possible. that would be bad as it would rule out shred also (did you try yet?)
16:34 < Sabotender> maybe they will send me a replacement
16:35 < Sabotender> kerframil: I tried shred and I got a line full of io errors
16:35 < kerframil> Sabotender: ah. not good.
16:35 < Sabotender> and then the drive got stuck
16:35  * iflema jim thanks Jim
16:35 < Sabotender> like..it disappeared from linux (wasnt able to see it) and I couldn't shut the computer down normally because the HDD busy light was stuck on
16:36 < jim> welcome... what did I do? :)
16:36 < kerframil> Sabotender: what MrElendig said. if you want the confidence of knowing that the data on it is irrecoverable, you appear to have little choice but to write it off.
16:36 < pLr> finally there are more users in #archlinux than #ubuntu YOTLD IS UPON US
16:36 < Sabotender> when I get a new drive (not adata) I am going to install windows 10 in a secure encrypted fashion. I really hate doing that because it forces me to remember long, complicated passwords, and I am not even sure if windows can do that
16:37 < kerframil> it can (either with bitlocker or veracrypt)
16:37 < Sabotender> I know that linux can, which I have it set up that way, but that's linux
16:37 < MrElendig> pLr: have happened several times in the past
16:37 < MrElendig> pLr: #archlinux used to be the largest channel on the network for a while
16:37 < pLr> MrElendig: i was away for a long while i guess things have changed
16:37 < MrElendig> but for various reasons about 800 nicks dropped off the network
16:38 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Curious though.. Do you use UEFI? And did SwagArch work with installing EFI stuff? I'm checking out my /boot now, not even an efi or EFI directory at all.
16:39 < MrElendig> Psi-Jack: findmnt /mnt
16:40 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: nope its just a 2G bios optiplex. havent needed the uefi stuff yet. hopefully itll be issue free when i decide to bite it off
16:40 < MrElendig> er.. /boot
16:40 < Psi-Jack> MrElendig: Heh, I'm looking at it inside the BIOS with it's built-in filesystem browser. heh
16:41 < Psi-Jack> Hmm
17:09 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: https://paste.linux-help.org/view/f6aef168  BTW
17:09 < Psi-Jack> Err. Correction
17:10 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: https://paste.linux-help.org/view/b2bd67d2 -- fixed, missed the x86_64 directory.
17:14 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: really appreciate it. ill try it out shortly
17:15 < Psi-Jack> Hehe triceratux That actually detects the media of which booted, plus finds the volume names of the media and ISO, and keeps everything localized. :)
17:16 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: i kinda deduced that from reading it. never seen anything like that
17:16 < Psi-Jack> hehe
17:16 < Psi-Jack> That's the way I roll. :)
17:22 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: You should see the whole setup. Pretty extensive. :)
17:23 < system16> hi. i need to install "git" in order to use this command git clone https://github.com/Juve45/batstat.git but its 26 MBs and this is concerning for me. is it safe ?
17:23 < system16> i never had to install such a big app
17:24 < Psi-Jack> wut?
17:24 < rumpel> w00t??1?1
17:24 < balletjebal> ^^
17:24 < Reventlov> system16: most probably ok
17:25 < Reventlov> but, here, the binary is only 55Ko
17:25 < rumpel> system16, you don't need to install git. you can also download it as .zip
17:25 < Reventlov> KB*
17:25 < system16> most apps that i installed were around 150 KBs. thats y im asking
17:25 < system16> i want this app : batstat
17:25 < Reventlov> and the full git history is 832KB
17:25 < rumpel> system16, look for the friendly green "Clone or download" button
17:25 < Reventlov> yeah, what I say, it's only 55KB compiled.
17:25 < system16> there is none
17:25 < system16> since i have no DE
17:26 < Psi-Jack> system16: "y" does not supplicate the replacement for the real word "why".
17:26 < Reventlov> just do a "git clone https://github.com/Juve45/batstat.git", a "g++ main.cpp -lncurses -pthread -std=c++11 -o batstat" and you're done.
17:26 < system16> my server isnt powerful enough for a DE
17:26 < Psi-Jack> server?
17:26 < system16> sftp server
17:26  * Psi-Jack scratches his head.
17:27 < system16> file server.
17:27 < akd> Does anybody has a live stream link in asia for watching Russia Saoudia Arabia?
17:27 < SuperSeriousCat> >sftp server >want DE
17:27 < Psi-Jack> akd: Google.com. Got a Linux question?
17:28 < system16> yeah clone and that stuff is complicated. i dont wanna break stuff
17:28 < fron> do we still use automounts or its a old technology?
17:29 < Psi-Jack> fron: What are you really trying to do/ask?
17:29 < fron> I am just reading around docs for RHCSA cert
17:29 < fron> so came across automounts
17:29 < system16> well that was quick
17:29 < system16> thanks guys
17:30 < Psi-Jack> fron: Heh. automounting is doable in systemd these days with an automount and mount service.
17:31 < fron> oh ok.. any other alternative for automount?
17:31 < system16> bash: /usr/local/bin/batstat: cannot execute binary file: Exec format error
17:31 < system16> why ????
17:31 < fron> automount is a system that makes the connection to the server thats is offering access to the home directory.. is my understanding correct? Psi-Jack
17:31 < Psi-Jack> fron: Incorrect.
17:31 < system16> is it because of having no GUI / DE ?
17:32 < fron> Psi-Jack: could you brief me then about what its used for
17:32 < Psi-Jack> fron: Automatically... mounting.... On access..
17:32 < Psi-Jack> Just what it sounds like. :p
17:33 < system16> Psi-Jack, do i need a DE for batstat ?
17:35 < system16> batstat: ELF 64-bit LSB executable <<but my server is 32-bit
17:36 < system16> when i type file batstat i get this
17:36 < system16> batstat: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.32, BuildID[sha1]=a198958fbf4d75807187b963a2341706c6fe2a01, not stripped
17:37 < system16> article : https://www.ostechnix.com/how-to-check-laptop-battery-status-in-terminal-in-linux/
17:37 < system16> scroll to the bottom of the page
17:37 < Psi-Jack> 32-bit? 1995 is calling.
17:38 < system16> so i installed a 64 bit app ?
17:38 < Psi-Jack> No. you COMPILED it as 64-bit. :p
17:38 < system16> oh
17:38 < system16> how can i fix that
17:39 < system16> chmod +x /usr/local/bin/batstat
17:39 < system16>  <i ran this command. because that website said so
17:42 < system16> Psi-Jack, do i need a gui for that program ?
17:42 < Psi-Jack> ...
17:43 < Psi-Jack> For starters. I haven't even LOOKED at the github URL you pointed out earlier. And don't plan to.
17:43 < system16> apt remove batstat will remove it right ?
17:44 < Psi-Jack> and now I'm pretty sure you're just trolling. Good luck.
17:44 < system16> no
17:44 < system16> why do you think that im trolling ?
17:44 < system16> i use devuan. devuan cant understand apt-get
17:46 < system16> yeah im not a pro in linux but im not a troll guy
17:46 < azarus> Hm, I'm trying to compile vice, the commodore emulator. Upon runnning ./configure I get: http://ix.io/1dlF
17:46 < azarus> Any clue to what `xa` is?
17:46 < toothe> sigh...why does my company use Kali?
17:46 < toothe> :(
17:46 < Armand> O_o
17:46 < MikeFromIT> wat
17:46 < Armand> Why would ANY company use Kali ?
17:47 < Armand> That's just.... wrong
17:47 < toothe> Armand: its recognized by the DoD
17:47 < Psi-Jack> Ignorance. Stupidity. Etc.
17:47 < toothe> yeah, i realyl dislike it.
17:47 < Armand> HAHAHAHAAA
17:47 < system16> Armand, maybe a pen testing company ?
17:47 < Psi-Jack> toothe: Pardon?
17:47 < toothe> system16: we are that.
17:47 < ayecee> well good
17:47 < toothe> Psi-Jack: which part?
17:47 < toothe> Its just so annoying to maintain.
17:47 < Armand> Ahh.... "Tech Support" in India ?
17:47  * Armand ducks
17:47 < Psi-Jack> toothe: DoD?
17:47 < toothe> Kali should be run in a VM, not on the hardware.
17:47 < toothe> Psi-Jack: department of defense.
17:48 < Psi-Jack> toothe: I know. I was military. DoD actually approved Kali?
17:48 < toothe> yes.
17:48 < Armand> toothe: Incorrect... they wouldn't approve Kali.
17:48 < toothe> its recognized government-wide
17:48 < Psi-Jack> Since.. When?
17:48 < Armand> EVER
17:48 < toothe> Armand: I dunno what to tell you, it is.
17:48 < Armand> Dude... My aunt works at the Pentagon.
17:48 < Armand> Seriously.
17:48 < ayecee> so? my dad is the president of xbox.
17:48  * Psi-Jack quickly kidnaps Armand 
17:49 < rumpel> my uncle owns mars
17:49 < Armand> lol
17:49  * system16 ignores Psi-Jack 
17:49 < SuperSeriousCat> Your uncle wash my car
17:49 < Psi-Jack> Oh big loss there. LOL
17:49 < Armand> You'd think that OffSec would brag about that on their website..
17:49 < ayecee> Armand: what are you saying? "my aunt works at the pentagon, therefore i am an authority on government software procurement" ?
17:50 < Armand> ayecee.... I'ma just blank your rhetorical noise for now. M'kay.
17:50 < Psi-Jack> I don't actually see any DoD approvals for Kali.
17:51 < Armand> Psi-Jack: Absolutely not.
17:51 < ayecee> what do you see approvals for?
17:51 < Armand> Especially considering how many non-US citizens are involved.
17:52 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: Well, Fedora Linux, for one. :)
17:52 < ayecee> nice
17:53 < Armand> OffSec aren't even listed under the DodIN list.
17:54 < ayecee> could be because it's such a rapidly evolving field
17:54 < Armand> Let's check the PCL...
17:54 < Sabotender> looks like I am SOL when it comes to this drive
17:54 < Sabotender> I am out 54USD
17:54 < Armand> NOPE
17:54 < Psi-Jack> Forge (custom government distro), Fedora, openSUSE, Debian, Ubuntu, Solis and Linux Mint, I see.
17:55 < ayecee> solus?
17:55 < Sabotender> because I am *not* sending this drive to ADATA in its current state. There's passwords on here, photos that I dont want people seeing, tax documents, all unable to be deleted becuase the drive is stuck in 'read only' mode
17:55 < Psi-Jack> heh yes. but they listed it as Solis. LOL
17:56 < ayecee> Sabotender: could try erasing it via the drive's internal secure erase thingy
17:56 < ayecee> https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase
17:56 < Sabotender> ayecee: is that windows only?
17:56 < ayecee> no
17:57 < ayecee> what a weird question
17:57 < Sabotender> well a lot of proprietary software that ive seen is windows only
17:57 < ayecee> it's not software
17:58 < Sabotender> okay ill look at it
18:01 < Sabotender> ayecee: ah, hdparm doesn't work
18:02 < ALowther_> What tool would you recommend using to modify a directory of files, searching for a specific phrase and inserting a phrase after?...Specific to my circumstance. I have hundreds, maybe thousands of .htm & .html files. I want to modify them all by adding something underneath the current banner. Luckily, it seems they all use a consistent <img> tag to load the banner. I want to search every htm/html file for that <img> tag, when it finds it, find the
18:02 < ALowther_> closing '>' for that tag and then insert an other <img> tag to insert a different image just beneath it.
18:02 < Sabotender> I got an error something along the lines of 'ioctrl incompatible blah blah'
18:02 < ALowther_> another*
18:02 < prussian> lol, what SSD is this Sabotender
18:03 < ayecee> an adata 128gb ssd. hdparm should work with it.
18:03 < Sabotender> perhaps I was trying to use an old version of hdparm?
18:03 < ayecee> oh, a m.2 ssd
18:03 < ayecee> i guess that might not
18:03 < prussian> it's probably not Serial ATA then
18:04 < ayecee> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18:04 < Sabotender> I dont think it is, because linux refers to it as 'nvme0'
18:05 < Sabotender> this makes me mad because I have to spend MORE money
18:05 < Sabotender> I am going to install windows in a secure manner from now on
18:06 < ayecee> #firstworldproblems
18:06 < Psi-Jack> Or just rid yourself of Windows forever.
18:07 < Sabotender> no, because most of the games I play are windows only
18:09 < ayecee> oh neat, there's a "nvme-format" command that might work for this.
18:10 < ayecee> as described here: https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/1-nvme-format/
18:16 < BluesKaj> Sabotender:  buty an xbox :-)
18:16 < BluesKaj> buy even
18:17 < ayecee> o_O
18:17 < ayecee> pc gamer master race, come on man
18:17 < Sabotender> I already own an xbox, but its graphical capability can't even touch the power of my 1080Ti that I have in my pc
18:19 < BluesKaj> bet you play on a 65" 4K TV too :-)
18:19 < Sabotender> pretty much
18:20 < BluesKaj> gamers....
18:38 < squarebracket> i'm trying to do an out-of-tree build of i915 with intel's patches for doing hardware transcoding, but the driver's including a file from drivers/platform. is there a way to reference that file from outside the tree, or am i stuck with an in-tree build?
18:39 < fron> hi there, i get this error mount.nfs: access denied by server while mounting 35.154.87.157:/home/centos
18:40 < Raed> fron: Looks like you dont have permission to mount the share.
18:41 < fron> how to have the permission?
18:41 < Raed> fron: You need to change the permissions on the server side. check server logs to see why it's denying it.
18:41 < fron> Raed: server logs? /var/log/messages?
18:42 < Raed> fron: It depends on where it defaults to in whichever distribution you are using.
18:42 < BluesKaj> squarebracket:  what makes you think that building the driver from source is going to give a better driver? ?
18:43 < fron> Raed: i see this Jun 14 16:38:15 ip-172-31-22-161 rpc.mountd[10118]: refused mount request from 103.215.170.1 for /home/centos (/home/centos): illegal port 64404
18:43 < BluesKaj> especially the i915 which is the most comon inbtel audio driver out there
18:43 < Raed> fron: Ok, so it doesnt like the port for whatever reason.
18:44 < fron> how do i change the port?
18:44 < revel> Illegal, you asy?
18:45 < Raed> fron: Quick google shows that error is because you dont have the insecure options on the share in /etc/exports, so if the port is above 1024 it will deny the mount.
18:45 < revel> I think I'll have to go report fron to Interpol.
18:45 < Raed> revel: Lol
18:45 < revel> s/asy/say/
18:45 < squarebracket> BluesKaj: intel makes what they call "intel media server" which requires changes to the i915 driver for better/faster video gpu transcoding
18:46 < squarebracket> BluesKaj: i can't say i know the specifics of it, i'm just tasked with building the driver. which i know isn't a great excuse. maybe it's just that intel's changes haven't been upstreamed yet? i'm honestly not sure.
18:47 < BluesKaj> oops  my mistake I meant video driver squarebracket
18:47 < fron> Raed: one more question
18:47 < Raed> fron: Ok..
18:47 < fron> how to know what are all the options nfs has
18:48 < BluesKaj> squarebracket:  , I wasn't aware the i915 had better versions available
18:48 < fron> like insecure,ro,rw,sync.,et
18:48 < fron> etc*
18:48 < Raed> fron: The man pages / documentation
18:49 < fron> also instead of /etc/exports can we use /etc/fstab? is there any difference if we use the latter for nfs
18:50  * BluesKaj searches intel media server
18:52 < Raed> fron: etc/exports defines the actual partitions or directories you want to mount, fstab is for the system, you can use fstab on the system, to auto mount the nfs share, but you still need /etc/exports to be set up.
18:55 < fron> Raed: so if a restart happens, unless we define in fstab, nfs wont sync up?
18:56 < Raed> fron: What do you mean? You need an exports file to tell the nfs server which directories to serve out. fstab is for telling the system which file systems to mount.
18:56 < Raed> fron: So, you can use fstab, to tell the client system to automatically try to mount the nfs share when it boots up
18:57 < Raed> fron: Otherwise you will have to do it everytime you want to mount it by hand.
18:58 < squarebracket> BluesKaj: i'm not really sure if it's "better" per se.... just that the patched module is needed to make use of features from the intel media server sdk, which we use. which maybe means it's not a good candidate for inclusion in the upstream driver /shrug
19:01 < BluesKaj> squarebracket, I suppose it depends on the intel hardware ...thjere's also the i965 video driver on newer  onboard gpus
19:03 < squarebracket> anyway, it would be nicer if i could build out-of-tree, but the i915 drivers includes `drivers/platform/x86/intel_ips.h` and i don't know if that's something i can include from outside the tree, or where the actual code in `intel_ips.c` ends up
19:05 < squarebracket> i imagine it's linked against whatever `intel_ips.c` compiles to, and the header is just a single function. :\
19:06 < revel> BluesKaj: Unless I'm mistaken, the kernel just has CONFIG_DRM_I915, there's no seperate i965 or above driver.
19:07 < Reventlov> Hi
19:07 < Reventlov> do you know where I could get statistics on hardware used on linux desktop?
19:08 < Reventlov> For example, which percentage of ubuntu users run an intel processor, or an specific intel wifi card
19:08 < BluesKaj> squarebracket:  ok, then the HW is the regular intel video chip
19:09 < lnnb> Reventlov: what would you do with this information?
19:09 < revel> Reventlov: If you can find similar statistics for Windows users, then it shouldn't be any different.
19:10 < Reventlov> lnnb: well, science.
19:10 < Reventlov> revel: well I don't know anything about windows.
19:11 < Reventlov> Also, the linux ecosystem is way more scattered than windows, so, yeah, it should be different.
19:11 < Reventlov> So, do you know of any hardware statistics initiative on Linux?
19:11 < koala_man> Valve does one for Steam users
19:12 < Reventlov> koala_man: neat, i'll check that out.
19:12 < lnnb> "science" is practically dodging the question
19:12 < Reventlov> lnnb: well, yes, because this is not your business, mainly.
19:12 < lnnb> right, so i won't help, thx
19:13 < Li> I'm using "ps aux" trying to follow how an automatically running program "V0399" was configured to run on rPi ubuntu mate. I found one line "112 root ******** SCREEN -dmS Ultra /home/pi/V0399" .. Checked crontab nothing different from another normal default distro!! can anyone suggest where to look for how this programming starts automatically?
19:13 < Reventlov> koala_man: seems there is nothing about network chipset, but, anyway, thanks for the hint :)
19:14 < koala_man> nope, but it does show intel cpus
19:14 < Reventlov> yep :)
19:15 < lnnb> sounds more like market research, not actual science
19:15 < Reventlov> lnnb: aaaand you're wrong. But, anyway, you said you were not helping
19:15 < dgurney> I'm not sure there's any such statistics easily available even for Windows machines
19:15 < lnnb> i'm not helping, i'm trying to convince myself you are doing actual science but i'm failing
19:16 < Sitri> Li: grep -R the etc directory
19:18 < YADW> Hello, I don't really know if this is the right place to ask, but I'm having a hard time making a program from source. Can I ask here for help?
19:19 < koala_man> yes, though if the program has its own channel, they'll probably be more helpful
19:22 < YADW> Thanks. I'm almost sure it doesn't, since it's a library to render swf files to png... Anyway, whenever I "make install" it gives me an error 1 and error 2
19:24 < Reventlov> YADW: paste the whole output on the pastebin linked in the topic
19:24 < Reventlov> from the beginning, when you write make, to the end, after you write make install.
19:25 < Dagmar> ...or just use termbin
19:26 < YADW> Well, I'll have to make you wait a couple of minutes, since the output is in italian (I heard that's a collateral effect of being an Italian guy, in Italy, on an Italian translated system). I'll translate it in a moment.
19:27 < alexandre9099> hi, which are the modules that take care of usb? can i reload them all?
19:27 < Dagmar> YAOW: There's always prefixing your commands with LANG=C
19:28 < YADW> Dagmar: didn't know about it, it's quite clever actually.
19:28 < alexandre9099> Dagmar, btw, what "C" stands for?
19:28 < Dagmar> alexandre9099: It's just the default
19:29 < alexandre9099> yea, but i mean, why "C" :D maybe "C"ommon?
19:29 < jim> I think it's the C locale (and dunno what it stands for, maybe C prog lang?)
19:29 < Dagmar> Basically, it tells any gettext using application to emit the untranslated versions of the strings
19:29 < Dagmar> i.e., what's in the C code
19:29 < tbsn> good afternoon all
19:29 < jim> hi
19:30 < alexandre9099> hmm, maybe that :)
19:31 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Hmmmm... What's the "fix" for the swagarch pacman-key issue, do you know off-hand?
19:31 < tbsn> I'm setting up a simple btrfs backup/media server. can I put the 2.5" drive in my laptop, install on that, and simply switch it over to the server for ssh access, or should the install happen on the computer itself?
19:32 < well_laid_lawn> you can swap the hdd over ok
19:32 < koala_man> tbsn: yes, you can typically do that
19:32 < Dagmar> You can do whatever you want. however, you've not told anyone a *reason* why you're wanting to do this
19:33 < YADW> This is make --> https://pastebin.com/bdLKPysH
19:33 < Psi-Jack> YADW: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
19:33 < tbsn> just rather not have to put a monitor and keyboard on the computer im using as a server
19:34 < jim> tbsn, which dist?
19:34 < koala_man> YADW: seems fine
19:35 < Psi-Jack> tbsn: Even a server could use a KVM switch to access the video, keyboard and optionally mouse as-needed.
19:35 < tbsn> well, haven't chosen yet. probably debian.
19:35 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: it taught me to say SigLevel = Never in the /etc/pacman.conf. havent had to say it for awhile. if the first neofetch hangs when the first terminal opens his key is hung. but its been ok for a few days
19:35 < Psi-Jack> Oh... That's just the wrong way. :)
19:35 < razwelles> Hey, I'm trying to dig around and figure out what the most common software based suspend is for linux, and how it's architected
19:35 < jim> Psi-Jack, that, plus lots of javascript, can crash a low-ram machine
19:36 < Psi-Jack> jim: What?
19:36 < YADW> This is make install --> https://paste.linux.community/view/80da858e
19:37 < jim> Psi-Jack, another reason to not prefer pastebin.com
19:37 < Dagmar> YAOW: Looks like the problem is that it's version 0.9.2
19:38 < Psi-Jack> Ahhhh
19:38 < Psi-Jack> True though
19:38 < Dagmar> There's nothing going terribly wrong during the build, but clearly the author has screwed up the Makefile's install stanza
19:38 < YADW> Dagmar I suspected it was something in the makefile, or on the dev side in general
19:38 < electrosys> Hi
19:38 < YADW> Funny, it's supposed to be the stable branch lol
19:39 < jim> hi
19:39 < electrosys> i'm all excited becuase i got offlineimap/mutt/gmail working with oauth2 and i got the labels working so i can delete e-mails to the trash folder.
19:40 < electrosys> and im useing weechat for the first time which is pretty cool.
19:40 < jim> YADW, it looks like the make added -o to an rm invocation, and according to the man page there's no -o (there is --one-file-system however)_
19:41 < YADW> jim yes, I noticed that, too. I don't know where to fix that, though. Is it in the makefile?
19:41 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: there was a bug report noting something similar before the project moved from github this week. im hesitant to talk up that project useful as it is. youll need to keep a close eye on it
19:42 < buoyantair__> open source alternative to gmail?
19:43 < revel> Dovecot.
19:43 < hexnewbie> buoyantair__: That's an oxymoron, gmail's a cloud service. Meaning, it's not only closed source, it operates on somebody else's computer.
19:43 < Artemis3> Maybe he wants software to set up your own cloud mail?
19:44 < hexnewbie> buoyantair__: You wouldn't be in any better position even if they ran Dovecot/Roundcube/Zimbra
19:44 < revel> What's zimbra? Spam detection?
19:44 < buoyantair__> hexnewbie: I was talking about an alternative to gmail o.o
19:44 < buoyantair__> something like mailtrain (which is like an alternative to mailchimp)
19:45 < revel> A service rather than software then? Since I don't personally see how an "open-source service" makes sense.
19:45 < buoyantair__> protonmail works but it doesnt seem to accept all emails
19:45 < buoyantair__> (in free tier)
19:45 < revel> cock.li
19:45 < buoyantair__> revel: No I mean software
19:46 < revel> Last I checked, Mailchimp was a service.
19:47 < hexnewbie> buoyantair__: Then Postfix with Dovecot or Courier and a proper email client ought to work. Roundcube is popular web mail client that doesn't suck too much. My university uses Zimbra, which has a sexy web frontend and IMAP/POP3/SMTP, but I don't know if it uses theirs or third-party
19:48 < hexnewbie> The FSF and OSI have approved Zimbra as free and open source (respectively), but Debian hasn't.
19:48 < buoyantair__> Oh, where can I know if they approved or not? :O
19:49 < hexnewbie> buoyantair__: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Public_Attribution_License has links
19:50 < hexnewbie> The OSI link is lacking, though.
19:51 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Yeah, I just had to delete the /etc/pacman.d/gnupg/* contents, and re-init and populate
19:51 < jim> hexnewbie, why does debian not support zimbra?
19:52 < Psi-Jack> It's not that Debian doesn't support Zimbra. It's Zimbra that doesn't support Debian.
19:52 < Psi-Jack> But, actually, Zimbra does in fact support Debian.
19:54 < Psi-Jack> Though Zimbra is a beast.
19:54 < hexnewbie> jim: The frontend uses the CPAL license, which according to Debian is a badgeware license. Requiring attribution that Debian couldn't comply with.
19:57 < hexnewbie> I.e. they require a logo to be displayed when the program is started/web interface displayed, i.e. a splash screen or button on the web page.
20:01 < jim> hexnewbie, ok, thanks
20:04 < Ajven> Hello, Im trying to make my 1080Ti PCI passthrue by qemu but taking error - https://pastebin.com/ceF9dMeE maybe you could help with that ? Its Arch linux host
20:05 < buoyantair__> Why are other linux distros not listed on gnu's webpage? :O
20:05 < hiya> Anyone here using shadowsocks client VPN style?
20:05 < hiya> I am trying to forward all my UDP+TCP traffic to UDP socks5 proxy that I have setup using shadowsocks client
20:05 < hiya> https://hastebin.com/tirukotiza.bash
20:06 < hiya> This is how I am trying it ^ but it just doesn't work
20:06 < hiya> It shows my home IP instead
20:15 < electrosteve> hi
20:19 < yskapell> hi all
20:20 < yskapell> I have kali linux on an Acer E15 laptop
20:20 < yskapell> and I want to upgrade BIOS
20:20 < yskapell> How can I do it without installting windows?
20:20 < ayecee> consult your user manual or the manufacturer's website for other options
20:21 < ayecee> it's not normally practical to upgrade the bios from within linux.
20:21 < yskapell> any suggestions?
20:22 < ayecee> yes. consult your user manual or the manufacturer's website for other options
20:22 < ayecee> two suggestions, both for you.
20:35 < seven-eleven> hi
20:36 < seven-eleven> what software should I use to create a windows VM in linux, virtualbox or kvm? the windows vm has to be access from the WAN. the network is behind a WAN router, so I think i'd have to give my VM a virtual LAN IP like 192.168.2.10
20:37 < koala_man> if you have to ask, virtualbox
20:37 < seven-eleven> alright, going for virtualbox then, thanks!
20:41 < electrosteve> @yskapell generally that needs to be done with a program provided by the manufacturer, do they provide a linux script?
20:44 < well_laid_lawn> I don't like nics that are brand names
20:55 < NoirX> hola
21:04 < Nawab> can anyone tell me how to output the output of tar to a directory outside the directory the archive is in?
21:05 < hexnewbie> Nawab: You want to specify where to extract the archive?
21:07 < phogg> Nawab: the dir the tarball is in does not matter, the dir you are in matters (your working dir). Use -C to specify an alternate
21:07 < Nawab> ok
21:24 < NCS_One> hi
21:25 < dunpeal> Not sure if it's a bash question, but I'm running less with -Q (highest level of silence, bell should never be rung), yet the bell is rung every time I try to scroll past the EOF.
21:25 < NCS_One> how can I remove a folder that has some error, with "ls -al" I get "d?????????  ? ?   ?      ?            ? folder"
21:26 < DLange> NCS_One: start midnight commander (mc), press F8 on the folder
21:27 < hexnewbie> NCS_One: What error does rmdir give you? Or attempts to list it directly?
21:27 < ayecee> NCS_One: you can't.
21:27 < NCS_One> hexnewbie: says its is a read only file
21:28 < ayecee> filesystem, probably
21:28 < hexnewbie> NCS_One: That's not an actual error message
21:28 < chey> heyy
21:28 < NCS_One> hexnewbie: "rm -R folder/" gives "rm: cannot remove 'folder': Input/output error"
21:28 < ananke> NCS_One: this is likely a result of a damaged filesystem
21:29 < davidej> Does anyone know if Kent Overstreet is in this chan - random chance?
21:29 < hexnewbie> NCS_One: If you get question marks for directory entry of a directory your user has +x permissions to, *and* I/O error, *and* read-only filesystem, either filesystem corruption or dying hardware. Run dmesg to tell
21:29 < ananke> NCS_One: the error you just pasted only further confirms that
21:29 < davidej> I'm going to wind up emailing him a question but I was curious if he was on IRC
21:31 < Pentode> davidej, although some developers do, the "unofficial" linux channel, otherwise known as ##linux isn't the best place to find those kinds of developers. :(
21:31 < ayecee> most people prefer not to be readily identified by their real name on irc too
21:32 < Pentode> yeah that too
21:32 < nchambers> oh
21:33 < Foxhoundz> Are there any NTP servers DIRECTLY connected to an actual atomic clock?
21:33 < ayecee> yes
21:33 < Foxhoundz> And if so, are they reachable
21:33 < ayecee> probably yes
21:33 < ayecee> wouldn't be much use if they weren't
21:33 < Foxhoundz> I thought they simply handed off time to secondary NTP servers
21:33 < ayecee> but you almost certainly shouldn't be using those as your ntp servers.
21:33 < Foxhoundz> which then served it to the world
21:33 < bls> it's unlikely they'd let random end users connect to them
21:34  * Pentode looks for his ribidium standard 
21:35 < ayecee> ribit
21:35 < Pentode> -i+u
21:35 < Pentode> oops '[
21:35 < Pentode> oops ;p even
21:36 < ayecee> :D
21:36 < Pentode> bah!
21:36 < Pentode> whats wrong with a regular ntp anyway? not accurate enough?
21:36 < ayecee> we may be assuming too much
21:36 < nchambers> people use NTP for accuracy?
21:36 < Foxhoundz> well
21:36 < Foxhoundz> I was just reading into high frequency trading
21:36 < Foxhoundz> and how they would sync time
21:37 < Foxhoundz> I'd imagine the tolerances are very, very tight
21:37 < bls> and you believe that a lower strata time source is less accurate than a higher one?
21:38 < ayecee> the implication being that that is not always the case
21:38 < prussian> Microchip cesium clocks soon
21:38 < electrosys> hi
21:38 < ayecee> i've always wanted a radioactive computer
21:39 < electrosys> I guess you have to have an registered nick to talk? doesn't relly matter which one though once you have at least one?
21:39 < Foxhoundz> maybe these trading systems have onboard atomic clocks themselves
21:39 < ayecee> electrosys: yup
21:39 < ayecee> maybe these trading system have their own timing signal that is not specifically related to the clock
21:40 < bls> or maybe time from a lower strata time source is accurate enough
21:40 < xcm> is accurate _real_ time of any use for trading?
21:40 < electrosys> i think the trick to high frequency trading is to make a trade on two different timestamps, and take advantage of the gap
21:40 < ayecee> such a broken system
21:40 < searedvandal> the regulatory nightmare of trading. utc via gps is probably what many do
21:41 < electrosys> its all a scham, when was the last time you said, hey, im going to buy that stock I like thr product. You generally make trades based on the chart. its all a game.
21:41 < ayecee> high frequency traders do that, not everyone does that
21:41 < SpeakerToMeat> can you guys think of any way to copy a single file from two machines to a third one over the net?
21:42 < ayecee> SpeakerToMeat: maybe, if you can explain how a single file is on two machines
21:42 < ayecee> quantum superposition?
21:42 < SpeakerToMeat> Other than split
21:42 < SpeakerToMeat> ayecee: hmmm no... simple cp...
21:42 < ayecee> could simple cp solve this new problem too?
21:42 < SpeakerToMeat> I'm trying to upload from two slowe internet locations at once
21:42 < ayecee> ok, there's the missing piece
21:42 < electrosys> SpeakerToMeat: can you just copy the files over with wget/rsync and then cat them together?
21:43 < SpeakerToMeat> Yeah split. sigh I guess split is the best way
21:43 < dotcomboom> the third machine is downloading one file from two mirrors basically?
21:43 < ayecee> yes
21:43 < ayecee> i mean, bittorrent could do this, but it probably takes more effort to set that up than it's worth.
21:43 < ayecee> this is what torrents are made for.
21:44 < dotcomboom> I think wget/uget might support it, somehow
21:44 < ayecee> i don't think so
21:44 < ayecee> but who knows, eh
21:45 < Pentode> curl can do that, can't it?
21:46 < ayecee> can it?
21:46 < Pentode> i think so
21:46 < ayecee> i don't think so
21:46 < searedvandal> aria2
21:46 < SpeakerToMeat> Well you can specify blocks with curl but I'm not sure about multiple sources at once
21:47 < dotcomboom> just found someone saying that on superuser
21:47 < dotcomboom> sample: "aria2c -s5 host1/bigfile host2/bigfile ... host5/bigfile"
21:47 < dotcomboom> or just "aria2c -s5 host1/bigfile host2/bigfile" because two mirrors
21:47 < SpeakerToMeat> Hmm interesting.
21:47 < searedvandal> yeah, aria2 should do what you want
21:48 < dotcomboom> https://aria2.github.io/
21:48 < SpeakerToMeat> Now I only need to fix the ssh forward not working in th erouter of one of the two locations
21:49 < Pentode> ayecee, well you would have to run two instances i guess then stick them together manualy.
21:49 < SpeakerToMeat> thanks searedvandal
21:49 < mcj> https://weechat.org/about/screenshots/weechat/weechat_2013-04-27_phlux.png/ Anyone know what font that is?
21:49 < SpeakerToMeat> And doing a pull rather than push will be easier to monitor
21:50 < Pentode> +l what is it with me i think this virus is eating my brain
21:51 < dotcomboom> mcj I think that's... the xterm default? can't be sure
21:52 < dotcomboom> no, actually not quite. but they look really similar
21:52 < mcj> That's what I thought but it isn't
21:53 < dotcomboom> put a bounty on it :p
21:53 < searedvandal> It's not Terminus?
21:53 < searedvandal> to me it looks pretty close to Terminus, but I don't have my glasses on
21:53 < SpeakerToMeat> There's font identification sites....
21:53 < Pentode> kinda close but it's not terminus
21:53 < mcj> Deff not http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/shots.html
21:53 < mcj> SpeakerToMeat: LINK
21:54 < mcj> link me now~
21:54 < Pentode> i use it extensively
21:54 < SpeakerToMeat> mcj: Man you're such a sweet person
21:54 < dotcomboom> there's WhatTheFont
21:54 < Pentode> the l's are different
21:54 < electrosys> how do i access the openvpncli?
21:54 < electrosys> dpesm
21:54 < dotcomboom> but I doubt it'd work for terminal fonts like that
21:55 < electrosys> doesn't seem to be with openvpn its self, man says /usr/local/sbin something but it doesn't exist in my machine. locate openvpn hmm...
21:55 < Pentode> its awfully similar though
21:55 < Pentode> the only difference i can even find so far is the lowercase l
21:56 < Pentode> maybe it _is_ terminus and the lowercase l looks different for some reason?
21:56 < Pentode> could be a different version
21:56 < SpeakerToMeat> mcj: Give me a second I'm trying to do you the favor, many mo9dern sites ocr the font ut your sample is pretty small
21:56 < dotcomboom> Terminus better edition (tm)
21:57 < dotcomboom> I just set my terminal font to comic sans to see how 1337 it looks and it looks weird for even comic sans standards
21:57 < mcj> SpeakerToMeat: Yeah I'm trying as well and I'm getting nothing helpful
21:57 < dotcomboom> things are squashed together xd
21:58 < mcj> Lol I think my sample has every letter in it :p
21:58 < mcj> Which is even more annoying that it can't find it
21:58 < dotcomboom> just remake the font
21:58 < dotcomboom> for your own personal use of course xd
21:58 < dotcomboom> last resort
22:01 < SpeakerToMeat> mcj:  the sample lacks many of the identifying characters
22:03 < dotcomboom> it's a small bitmap font, OCR sites are used to large type fonts used by "graphic designers"(tm)
22:03 < dotcomboom> your best bet is probably searching around
22:03 < SpeakerToMeat> dotcomboom: I'm doing a manual identification
22:04 < hexnewbie> Bitmap fonts are easy and possibly legal to replicate from a screenshot
22:04 < SpeakerToMeat> But lacking many identifying characters, mainly uppercase characters (R, M, G, J)
22:04 < mcj> I'm just ognna find the guy and ask him hahah
22:04 < dotcomboom> oh, okay
22:04 < dotcomboom> icy
22:04 < spreeuw> the eternal quest for the best font, and rendering reproducability over stacks
22:04 < Maddix> not sure why you need a vm but you can always put windows onb a usb stick and boot that
22:05 < dotcomboom> Maddix adding on to that if you have another windows machine to use Rufus, and the ISO image for microsoft's website Windows To Go works albeit very slowly
22:05 < hexnewbie> mcj: I would be very surprised if it isn't one of the fonts found in apt-cache search bitmap font
22:05 < dotcomboom> I tried it with a 64GB drive
22:06 < dotcomboom> (usb 2.0)
22:06 < SpeakerToMeat> Fail, the closest identification is 21st but it's not 21st
22:07 < searedvandal> mcj, he shouldn't be too hard to find here on freenode
22:08 < dotcomboom> ah yeah
22:08 < dotcomboom> I mean, it is a weechat screenshot after all
22:08 < searedvandal> when you get the answer, let us know :)
22:08 < dotcomboom> #weechat
22:09 < wizzi> Hi, what do you recommend about cracking wifi? any ideas, tools ..
22:09 < Dominian> We don't discuss that here
22:09 < spreeuw> airkrak
22:10 < wonderer> hi, can anyone can help with this post? https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2140751-apache-rewrite-rule-not-working-when-trying-to-block-site-ru-spam-referrers?page=1#entry-7776068
22:10 < Dominian> wonderer: Did you try #httpd
22:10 < wonderer> trying Dominian
22:11 < zapotah> wizzi: #security , though expect to be barred with homework
22:11 < wizzi> Dominian: i'm just learning and testing on my devices not on people
22:11 < momomo> I want to replace this wifi laptop card with a faster one, but what chipset, what connections is that matches?
22:11 < momomo> https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/centrino-wireless-n-135-brief.pdf
22:11 < momomo> Here is a search I made: https://www.prisjakt.nu/kategori.php?m=s364858195&o=produkt_pris_inkmoms
22:12 < DrunkRhino> So, anyone have any other ideas on how to get libc++(abi) to build properly? I tried modifying the makepkg to pass the -j 2 flag to ninja, but I think I might've put it in the wrong place. Also I have llvm-svn bins installed instead of llvm main since I use mesa-git as well. https://ptpb.pw/txK7 is a paste of "vmstat 3" that ran until I had to REISUB
22:12 < Dominian> wonderer: #httpd would be the best place to ask.
22:12 < wizzi> zapotah, thank you i'll see there
22:13 < hexnewbie> DrunkRhino: Get way more RAM.
22:13 < DrunkRhino> hexnewbie, would if I could, but I'm stuck for now with the 4GB I've got.
22:14 < zapotah> youre hosed then
22:14 < spreeuw> dont use j2 if you're short on ram
22:14 < hexnewbie> DrunkRhino: Is ninja something libc++ forces you to use? If not, use something saner that let's you pass -j2 or -j1, or read the docs
22:15 < zapotah> momomo: its a pcie half-mini chip
22:16 < DrunkRhino> hexnewbie, more or less. Even then I'm stuck trying to pass it via Arch's pkgbuild
22:16 < zapotah> momomo: as for whatever your antenna connector is, good luck finding a compatible chip
22:16 < spreeuw> put swap on ssd?
22:16 < spreeuw> put /tmp on disk to free up ram
22:16 < spreeuw> close all other programs
22:17 < spreeuw> etc
22:17 < zapotah> momomo: and you will only have a single antenna most certainly so you cant really stick anything in that requires two or more
22:17 < dotcomboom> I'd just go for a usb one.. or expresscard
22:17 < DLange> DrunkRhino: why do you think you run out of RAM?
22:17 < zapotah> momomo: if you do, you will burn out the chip
22:17 < DrunkRhino> Also, I get that 4 gigs isn't exactly spectacular these days, but I'd have thought it would be enough. spreeuw, that was my next thought. I've got an SSD in an old netbook that I've got set up as a Netflix
22:17 < zapotah> DrunkRhino: just dont install a gui and you will probly be fine
22:17 < DrunkRhino> zapotah, what?
22:17 < spreeuw> I'm not sure if its possible with 4GB
22:18 < zapotah> DrunkRhino: if youre building libc++, you dont need any kind of gui
22:18 < hexnewbie> Or don't build libc++ and get a binary package, if Arch has sane things like that.
22:18 < spreeuw> also there are compiling accelerators that tape up more ram by avoiding disk
22:18 < momomo> zapotah: hmm ..... so upgrading to this: https://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?e=2980218 ... will cause issues?
22:18 < spreeuw> *take up
22:18 < zapotah> momomo: im not clicking that
22:18 < DrunkRhino> DLange, htop shows the RAM usage going up before freezing, and the vmstat looks like it's going nuts with the swap once it does.
22:18 < momomo> or this: https://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?e=2980218 ... its just a product link
22:18 < spreeuw> you may want to check if they are in use but..
22:18 < DLange> so let it swap, that's what it is there for
22:18 < zapotah> DrunkRhino: youre not using a gui on this box youre trying to build on right?
22:18 < DLange> just takes longer then
22:18 < spreeuw> another thing may be distributed gcc
22:19 < spreeuw> so you can use resources of another host
22:19 < spreeuw> proabbly complex to set up
22:19 < DrunkRhino> zapotah, considering it's a general purpose tower, yes. But I suppose I could fire it up, stop GDM and give it another go.
22:19 < spreeuw> or just ocmpile it elsewhere on a vm copy of the machine with more ram
22:19 < DLange> simple solution: use Debian, runs fine with 4GB RAM :)
22:19 < spreeuw> then put the binaries back
22:19 < DrunkRhino> spreeuw, don't have DistCC or CCache set up on this.
22:20 < zapotah> DrunkRhino: just for building that, just dont start the ui elements
22:20 < zapotah> DrunkRhino: that shit uses a fuckton of ram
22:20 < zapotah> in this 4GB scenario anyway
22:20  * zapotah lols at that
22:20 < dgurney> momomo, that's an m.2 card, so it wouldn't even fit in a mini-pci slot
22:22 < DrunkRhino> zapotah, well, looks like I'll just have to do it later on then. Not like I have another machine to switch to and use as it's doing that.
22:22 < momomo> dgurney: i see ... this is tricky .. im feeling this card  is too slow .. must upgrade ... laptop is a monster .. so should be able to
22:22 < DrunkRhino> Hell, most of my set up for most of my machines is pretty much shoestrings and duck tape at this point.
22:22 < zapotah> momomo: thats funny
22:23 < dgurney> momomo, you will be able to upgrade to a better mini-pcie card, but even then you need to be careful, because some laptops have whitelists
22:23 < wizzi> zapotah, No one is serious there ...i think this is the best channel i see!
22:23 < zapotah> momomo: i heard a customer say "theres tons of resources available"
22:23 < momomo> dgurney: https://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?p=2300705 this one looks the same on the pics
22:23 < zapotah> wizzi: keep trying, this is not the place for your question either
22:24 < zapotah> momomo: what that fellow meant was that theres an ARM dual core with 2gb of ram
22:24 < momomo> dgurney: i think these matches: https://www.prisjakt.nu/kategori.php?o=produkt_pris_inkmoms&m=s364859687
22:24 < zapotah> we terminated that client
22:24 < momomo> zapotah: ARM dual core?
22:24 < dotcomboom> momomo I'd use an expresscard (if your laptop has support for it) or an external usb adapter
22:24 < dgurney> momomo, yes, those are mini-pcie cards, but if your laptop has a bios whitelist, they will not work even if they fit in the slot
22:24 < wizzi> zapotach, yeah i'll google it or asking on another place
22:25 < dotcomboom> momomo I
22:25 < dotcomboom> I'd recommend if you're going to use an internal card to look up your laptop model for compatibility
22:25 < dgurney> ^
22:26 < dgurney> all modern Lenovo laptops that I know of have whitelists (due to regulations) for instance
22:26 < momomo> dotcomboom: it's a custom built laptop from utopia computers ... 03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N 135 [8086:0892] (rev c4)
22:26 < dgurney> hmm, in that case it probably doesn't have a whitelist
22:26 < DrunkRhino> zapotah, do you think spreeuw's suggestion of putting /tmp on an SSD would speed it up significantly? If it'd just be a slight boost I'd rather not bother fussing with getting it out of the netbook and mounted in the case
22:26 < momomo> dgurney: "modern" -> since a russian company took over ibm
22:26 < momomo> 's
22:27 < dgurney> *chinese
22:27 < momomo> chinese
22:27 < momomo> yes, sorry
22:27 < Reventlov> shitty lenovo
22:27 < zapotah> DrunkRhino: depends, you can pretend you have "ram" by expanding on swap
22:27 < spreeuw> its not about speed
22:27 < zapotah> DrunkRhino: wether that is fast or not, who knows
22:27 < spreeuw> its about having enough ram at the peak ram use
22:27 < zapotah> yeah
22:27 < spreeuw> to complete it at all
22:28 < dotcomboom> momomo, if it's a custom build, did they give you faster wifi card options when ordering? if so then try looking them up
22:28 < momomo> dotcomboom: don't remember .. it was a while ago, but worth looking up .. i think they still sell this chassi
22:28 < DrunkRhino> Sorry, yeah. That's more or less what I'd meant. The progress bars for the tests it was running prior to build were giving me estimates of 25-30 mins, but with the freezing and all that was definitely a lowball estimate
22:29 < zapotah> spreeuw: sometimes its funny shit tbh when theres timeouts in the build scripts :D
22:30 < momomo> dotcomboom: https://www.utopiacomputers.co.uk/haze-15 ... it says m.2 interface
22:30 < dgurney> momomo, when did you buy the laptop? it's possible they updated the model
22:31 < dotcomboom> they might not have used m.2 for the wifi, just ssds but I'm not sure, not an expert on these things
22:31 < momomo> dgurney: like 4 year ago :s
22:31 < AndroidKitKat> whats a program i can use to manage mutliple screens in i3
22:31 < ntd> https://j.ludost.net/blog/archives/2018/06/13/ancient_su_-_hostile_vulnerability_in_debian_8_and_9/
22:32 < dgurney> momomo, so it's outdated then
22:32 < momomo> probably .. i will call them tomorrow .. thanks for the help :)
22:32 < dgurney> in any case, since those utopia machines seem to be just rebadged Clevo machines, it's possible that a mini-pcie ac card will work in it
22:32 < dgurney> but I suppose it's best you ask them directly
22:32 < dotcomboom> good idea to contact them
22:33 < NGC3982> hi guys
22:33 < dotcomboom> hio
22:34 < Lope> gcc -v shows 7.x.y I've installed gcc-5
22:34 < Lope> how can I select it as the default?
22:34 < NGC3982> im on a coorporate network and in an old unix machine. on this network, i can login to a mainfram machine with a hostname. can i in some fashion resolve what kind of machine is running the mainfram from simply the hostname?
22:35 < zapotah> dotcomboom: dgurney: or just, open the thing and see whats what
22:35 < NGC3982> the user i have on the mainframe login itself is locked and cannot be reached.
22:35 < RayTracer> Lope: maybe with update-alternatives
22:35 < zapotah> but, i guess thats a hazard considering the obvious level of the guy
22:35 < NGC3982> type of host is "zSeries"
22:36 < zapotah> NGC3982: no
22:36 < Lope> raytracer it didn't work. I tried running update-alternatives --remove-all gcc; update-alternatives --remove-all g++
22:36 < Elladan> NGC3982, a hostname is just a name in some database, it doesn't have any relationship to the type of machine.
22:36 < Lope> I tried to use a similar syntax as I used for java but I couldn't find it at /usr/lib/gcc/5.5.0/gcc or bin/gcc etc
22:36 < RayTracer> Lope: maybe add your desired gcc with update-alternatives instead of removing the others
22:36 < NGC3982> Elladan, zapotah: i see. thank you.
22:37 < jprjr> NGC3982: hostnames are entirely arbritrary. *maybe* you could use something like nmap to attempt detecting what kind of host it is based on how it responds to IP traffic
22:37 < NGC3982> i was thinking about something like a ctcp version in irc.
22:37 < NGC3982> all i know is that it is a local machine, is probably very old and is of type zSeries.
22:37 < jprjr> But nmap's output will just be a guess really
22:37 < NGC3982> the unix machine doesnt have nmap, sadly.
22:37 < Elladan> I wouldn't advise using nmap probing on a corporate network unless you have permission from IT security.
22:37 < NGC3982> and im i no power to install things.
22:37 < NGC3982> yeah.
22:37 < dgurney> NGC3982, I suppose the easiest thing to do is simply ask the right person(s)
22:37 < SpringSprocket> aren't there dhcp-based hostnames too?
22:38 < SpringSprocket> ie host-label rather
22:38 < NGC3982> dgurney: of course, but i was interested in how to solve it myself, just for fun.
22:38 < jprjr> NGC3982: question: what's the actual problem you're trying to solve? Like why do you need to know what kind of machine it is?
22:38 < RayTracer> NGC3982: cat /proc/cpuinfo?
22:39 < NGC3982> jprjr: it is not a problem. im just interested in what kind of machine it is, and what tools i can use in a tight enviroment to reach it.
22:40 < NGC3982> RayTracer: the machine itself does not run *nix commands. my guess is that its a zSeries IBM mainframe running something like AS400.
22:41 < NGC3982> as i said, its just for fun and learning. simply not getting there is totally ok.
22:41 < NGC3982> the thing is, i have access as a user to the mainframe, but the user enviroment is so locked out i simply cant enter commands that arent exactly work related (so absolutely no system information can be found whatever i try).
22:42 < Elladan> SpringSprocket, there are a variety bits of information dhcp can hand out, and often the dhcp server and the dns server/database are connected.
22:42 < jprjr> NGC3982: yeah best bet is to just ask somebody. My only experience with AS/400 is using a pre-made menu system, I don't think I've ever had shell access on one of those
22:42 < NGC3982> they only thing pointing to IBM zSeries is the fact that the configuration file on the windows client specifies it, but that might just be default.
22:42 < NGC3982> jprjr: yeah
22:42 < SpringSprocket> nice
22:43 < Elladan> In corporate settings dhcp, dns, and switch port configuration may all be connected for security reasons on the back end.
22:45 < NGC3982> i see.
22:46 < Lope> RayTracer: i just had to run `HOST_COMPILER=g++-5 make` thanks
22:47 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Wow. That's actually more serious of a problem than I expected. Every time I reboot, the swagarchrepo breaks things again... and again....
22:48 < RayTracer> Lope: thanks as well :)
22:49 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: well i finally got that grub2 stanza of yours working. i know the volume labels involved so i dont need it to be quite so fancy http://pastebin.centos.org/840346/raw/
22:49 < ggVGc> is there any terminal emulator or similar that would let me run it y-inverted?
22:49 < ggVGc> e.g input line at top and lines moving downwards
22:50 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: i had no idea thats still possible. its horridly documented in the wiki :P thank you much for calling it to my attention
22:50 < Psi-Jack> Hehe
22:52 < Psi-Jack> I'm beginning to wonder why you think SwagArch is so awesome, when the pacman-keyring itself is so utterly broken.
22:52 < fnDross> how well does nix run on 32bit processors?
22:53 < Psi-Jack> fnDross: nix?
22:53 < revel> NixOS, presumably.
22:54 < Psi-Jack> I do not presume/assume so quickly. ;p
22:54 < revel> Might as well ask #nixos instead, not sure.
22:54 < fnDross> got an old pc server that has XP32bit on it, and now needing GPT for a 3tb drive
22:54 < revel> I would, considering I've never seen anyone call anything else "nix" here.
22:54 < SpringSprocket> fnDross: I personally think it runs better than 64bit but it's just philosophical at this point
22:54 < electrosys> ahh , i need nmcli ..
22:54 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: mainly because it wasnt broken until the most recent iso & he looks like hes working on it. im not seeing any issues today either so its something real minor. & thats the only thing wrong with the distro
22:55 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Well, I just installed it today.... And every time I reboot, pacman-key is completely fubar.
22:55 < NGC3982> revel: but, *nix?
22:55 < SpringSprocket> fnDross: ie sometimes some process don't use multiple threading which comes out using only 50% CPU
22:55 < NGC3982> i thought we was talking about general unix based systems.
22:55 < revel> "nix", not "*nix"
22:55 < Psi-Jack> fnDross: Well, the 3TB HDD may be an issue.
22:55 < NGC3982> i did not assume he cared about the asterisk :-p.
22:56 < SpringSprocket> designing program with multithreading hasn't followed splitting cores equally
22:56 < NGC3982> but then again, i never knew about nixos.
22:56 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: believe me youre not the only one whos noticing that. its just that his bugtracking is disrupted because he scurried to gitlab so fast :D
22:56 < fnDross> it is.... need a 64bit os to read the 3tb drive properly
22:56 < fnDross> from what ive read
22:56 < Psi-Jack> fnDross: nix?  -- please clarify, too.
22:56 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Oh? He ran from github to gitlab?
22:56 < fnDross> meaning the many flavors of linux
22:57 < NGC3982> oh lord i was actually right for once.
22:57 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: yep all the bugreports are 4 days old & are 404ing on github
22:57 < revel> wut
22:57 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: distrowatch is updated already
22:57 < fnDross> freeenas,openas,ubuntu,puppylinux etc
22:57 < SpringSprocket> fnDross: most distributions cover nicely the 32/64bit nicely, it's all done throughout the libs and program rather
22:58 < SpringSprocket> I'd say nowaday 64bit is best covered
22:58 < SpringSprocket> although 32bit is very well established, just not updating as much as before
22:58 < fnDross> hoping to setup a dualraid clone that backsup to the 3tb usb drive
22:59 < Penguin> The term "nix" has historically meant UNIX and UNIX-like stuff.
22:59 < fnDross> oh
22:59 < fnDross> lo
22:59 < fnDross> l
22:59 < Psi-Jack> Aha!
22:59 < Psi-Jack> I found t he issue.
22:59 < Psi-Jack> Heh. /etc/pacman.d/gnupg is freaking tmpfs...
22:59 < triceratux> https://github.com/SwagArch/swagarch-build/issues/81
23:00 < Psi-Jack> Why swagarch why!?
23:00 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: they want to make sure you can fix *all* the issues, not just most of them ;)
23:00 < SpringSprocket> 64bit has better/faster addressing through HDD/sdd from what I read, due to adressing translation
23:00 < Psi-Jack> But, /etc/pacman.d/gnupg as tmpfs ruins custom repos too.
23:01 < revel> Penguin: And then a package manager/OS stole that.
23:01 < fnDross> and can i use Microsoft's exFAT, read something about issues on it
23:01 < Penguin> fnDross: "UNIX-like" includes the flavors of Linux.
23:01 < Penguin> revel: I guess they're allowed to do that... to make things confusing.
23:01 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Heh, and that github URL doesn't work.
23:02 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: that was the report that --populate fails at installtime but is ok after a reboot. so his keyserver is borking out but if pacman is configured with proper persistence a swagarch user doesnt notice it
23:03 < triceratux> but theres no such thing as a swagarch user even tho the distro is between 50-70 on dw
23:04 < Psi-Jack> Ugh, I see the problem is deeper.
23:04 < Psi-Jack> Freacking /etc/systemd/system/ installed pacman-init.service and etc-pacman.d-gnupg.mount.
23:04  * Psi-Jack wants to slap the hell out of SwagArch's maintainer.
23:06 < bls> welcome to a fork of a fringe amateur distro
23:06 < dgurney> swagarch is such a dumb name
23:07 < triceratux> i love it tho. i get bored unless my linux is crumbling before my eyes
23:07 < Psi-Jack> Heh
23:07 < plexigras> running `sudo nmcli dev wifi connect ... password ...` returns `Error: Connection activation failed: (7) Secrets were required, but not provided.`
23:07 < bls> nah nah man, it's swaggy
23:07 < Psi-Jack> Welp, Antergos was better, minus the conflicting packages.
23:07 < Psi-Jack> But.. I figured I'd give it a try regardless.
23:07 < bls> is Swaggy-P their mascot?
23:08 < plexigras> has anybody an idea what i could be doing wrong?
23:10 < electrosys> :plexigras it looks like you may need to pass along a password or something for the connection
23:10 < plexigras> what? but i am???
23:11 < electrosys> plexigras: for now try -a and see what you get
23:11 < plexigras> is that --ask?
23:12 < plexigras> same error :/
23:13 < Psi-Jack> There, disabled the freaking tmpfs pacman.d/gnupg nonsense.
23:13 < electrosys> yeah ask
23:13 < plexigras> with -a or --ask and entering the password manually that is
23:13 < electrosys> dont pass a password and use -a or --ask
23:13 < plexigras> thats what i have done and i still get the same error
23:13 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, NOW everything works. :)
23:14 < electrosys> plexigras: look at secret agent as well
23:14 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: how do we mere mortals do such a thing ?
23:14 < plexigras> electrosys: what is that?
23:14 < ayecee> petition the gods to intervene, presumably
23:15 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: systemctl disable etc-pacman.d-gnupg.mount; systemctl disable pacman-init.service; reboot; pacman-key --init; pacman-key --populate archlinux swagarch; profit.
23:16 < electrosys> plexigras: have you -> man nmcli ?
23:16 < plexigras> yes there is nothing about secret or agents on there
23:16 < electrosys> *cough bs cough*
23:16 < djph> well, perhaps not "agents"
23:17 < plexigras> oh wait i was on networkmanagers man page
23:17 < electrosys> your looking specifically for "secret agent" ;)
23:18 < plexigras> i'm currently reading the man page
23:18 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: It's VERY annoying too that they installed those systemd units to /etc/systemd, not where they belong in /lib/systemd
23:18 < plexigras> i also tried connecting using nmtui and nm-applet
23:18 < SpringSprocket> Psi-Jack: they just want to mimic sysvinit
23:19 < Psi-Jack> SpringSprocket: Well, it's wrong.
23:19 < SpringSprocket> it's always been wrong
23:19 < electrosys> yeah, agents sounds like some server thing, maybe that isn't what you need. you just need to pass creds
23:20 < SpringSprocket> personally I think only sysvinit could have it right this way
23:20 < electrosys> im not 100% sure though, im trying to learn nmcli myself.
23:20 < MarkusDBX> is there some new/beta version of glx that handles opengl forwarding slightly better?
23:20 < MarkusDBX> playing around with iglx
23:20 < electrosys> anyone know how to get dosbox going in the framebuffer? I think maybe you just need to get the SDL subsystem launched?
23:21 < plexigras> maybe i should just restard my pc
23:21 < electrosys> plexigras: that sounds like a windoze solution
23:21 < plexigras> well i'm all out of ideas
23:21 < electrosys> do you have the command params in the right order?
23:22 < plexigras> thats an idea i should try to mix it up
23:22 < bls> if only these things were documented so you didn't have to guess at random stuff
23:22 < plexigras> but right now i'm using the same order as in the arch wiki article
23:23 < electrosys> bls: they are documented, its just that theres a little bit of a learning curve when you first approach a program
23:26 < electrosys> plexigras: nmcli connection ?
23:26 < electrosys> plex-> nmcli connection help
23:27 < ntd> https://betanews.com/2018/06/14/the-firefox-powered-cliqz-web-browser-puts-your-security-first/
23:27 < ntd> lol
23:28 < ntd> i remember "cliqz"
23:28 < lnnb> is it just me or do other people also getting OCSP failures all over the interweb the last few weeks?
23:28 < ntd> and i don't exactly associate it with "security"
23:28 < ayecee> lnnb: probably just you
23:29 < electrosys> plexigras: but wait, are you using arch? if you are your probably not using connection manager, maybe connman?
23:29 < electrosys> i mean not using network manager
23:29 < zapotah> lnnb: someone counting on that not verifying shit just passes as OK
23:29 < electrosys> i think network manager is a gnome thing, no?
23:30 < bls> no, it's lower level than that
23:30 < lnnb> yeah in my browser you have to specifically say "treat ocsp connections failure as error"
23:31 < plexigras> yes im using arch but i have set up networkmanager not connman
23:31 < Psi-Jack> SpringSprocket: Eh, nothing was ever "good" about sysvinit. lsb-init had some benefit, but it still was problematic.
23:31 < electrosys> ok
23:32 < SpringSprocket> Psi-Jack: sure, but it was linear and well ordered
23:32 < Psi-Jack> ...
23:33 < SpringSprocket> Psi-Jack: there were only few scripts wich were long to read through
23:33 < Psi-Jack> Linear, yes... Well ordered, however... It was easily prone to race conditions.
23:33 < Psi-Jack> Problem is, stupid people kept putting set -e in their init scripts.
23:36 < revel> What's so bad about `set -e`?
23:38 < SpringSprocket> it disciminates error handling
23:38 < SpringSprocket> which should be implemented anyway
23:38 < ayecee> disciminates
23:38 < revel> Disciminates?
23:38 < Psi-Jack> revel: Per LSB-init standards, it violated everything.
23:39 < Psi-Jack> LSB-init expected certain well-defined return codes based on different statuses.
23:41 < revel> You could `set -eE` and `trap $somefunction ERR`
23:41 < DrunkRhino> Anybody happen to know if there's a quick way to force all applications under GNOME to use a title bar? Some of my windows have them and the window controls are smaller there than in apps like Nautilus, which stick the title only up in the top bar AFAICT
23:42 < DrunkRhino> I figured it'd be under GNOME tweaks if there was but I don't see anything like that there.
23:42 < tymczenko> is `/etc/rc.local` a good place to set screen lightness on startup?
23:43 < ayecee> what are the other options?
23:43 < tymczenko> that's what I'm asking you, guys)
23:43 < electrosys> tymczenko: maybe ~/.rc.local ?
23:44 < electrosys> i think /etc is where the sampes or system wide go.
23:44 < revel> ... That's a thing?
23:44 < electrosys> but im still learning.
23:44 < ayecee> it's not a thing
23:44 < ayecee> tymczenko: set how?
23:44 < revel> Whew.
23:44 < tymczenko> ayecee, something like `echo X > /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness` where X = some number
23:45 < revel> Some number below /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/max_brightness
23:45 < tymczenko> revel, yeah, sure
23:46 < ayecee> *shrug*
23:46 < ayecee> guess that can't be done with sysctl
23:46 < milpool> of all the stuff that i put into /etc/rc.local, setting brightness is one of the more reasonable ;)
23:47 < bls> could it be specified as an argument to a kernel module or is backlight support compiled in?
23:48 < tymczenko> milpool, seriously? so it's a decent way of setting brightness?
23:48 < Aleric> Hi... what is the name of this pop-up thing that I get while I alt-tab over all open windows?
23:48 < revel> Steve.
23:49 < searedvandal> tymczenko, there are a couple of ways to set brightness
23:49 < birdbolt1> this channel is a lot quitter than i expected
23:49 < milpool> tymczenko: i don't know, tbh. i put stuff like that in rc.local if it works, but i wouldn't say it's "the right way". i just don't care.
23:49 < birdbolt1> quieter *
23:53 < tymczenko> milpool, ok, thanks for your help
23:54 < tymczenko> searedvandal, writing a number to `/sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightnes` is ok, or should I consider some other way?
23:56 < searedvandal> tymczenko, it should be fine doing it that way. or you can add a udev rule and do it that way. I think the arch wiki has a decent page about backlight
23:57 < tymczenko> searedvandal, thanks
--- Log closed Fri Jun 15 00:00:58 2018