--- Log opened Fri Jun 15 00:00:58 2018
00:05 < Aleric> Apparently it's called a 'window switcher'
00:06 < Aleric> but I have no idea which one I have :/... It sucks though, I want another one :/
00:06 < bls> it's likely part of your DE or WM
00:06 < DrunkRhino> Aleric, that's mostly dependent on the desktop environment
00:06 < Aleric> How can I check which one I have?
00:07 < Aleric> If I right-click my desktop and choose Desktop Settings - I get nothing useful, but it's called 'plasma'.
00:08 < DrunkRhino> That'd be KDE
00:08 < Aleric> k, and which part of KDE would be the window switcher application?
00:09 < DrunkRhino> I'm not 100% sure, I'm a GNOME guy myself. I'd imagine it would be under appearance or window settings.
00:10 < dotcomboom> Aleric, I believe what you're talking about is the window manager, which I believe handles Alt+tabs.
00:11 < Aleric> I found it here... https://gyazo.com/5b234130448a35ca13285b02f10d369c
00:11 < domhnall> think its kwin or something...
00:12 < Aleric> It's currently showing a vertical bar with HUGE icons and NOT sorting them in recently used order (even though my config, see screen shot, says that it does that).
00:13 < Aleric> Ie, I have four terminals open that I need to switch between, but I have to alt-tab 20 times to get to them EVERY time, because of all the other open windows.
00:13 < Aleric> I want one where the icons are small, horizontally placed with their title under it, and where everything that is recently used it close together :/
00:13 < triceratux> if you find yourself unsuspectingly running kde, migrate at once to your chosen distros xfce spin
00:14 < dotcomboom> xd
00:14 < DrunkRhino> Hear hear!
00:14 < revel> What if it doesn't have one?
00:14 < dotcomboom> I don't use KDE myself but consult your settings
00:14 < dotcomboom> KDE tends to be pretty customizable so I bet you can change that behavior
00:16 < dotcomboom> https://docs.kde.org/trunk5/en/kde-workspace/kcontrol/kwintabbox/index.html this might help(?)
00:16 < domhnall> I wish lxde did the laptop theme as kde does, that feature is a plus.
00:16 < dotcomboom> "It is possible to influence the sort order, you can either use a sort order based on the last usage of the windows or the stacking order of the windows. "
00:16 < dotcomboom> Aleric
00:24 < mophed> heyas
00:26 < ntd> i've a box pulling some video streams
00:26 < ntd> intel_powerclamp is now having a fit in dmesg
00:26 < ntd> which indicates cpu heat issue
00:27 < Li> I'm using "ps aux" trying to follow how an automatically running program "V0399" was configured to run on rPi ubuntu mate. I found one line "112 root ******** SCREEN -dmS Ultra /home/pi/V0399" .. Checked crontab nothing different from another normal default distro!! can anyone suggest where to look for how this programming starts automatically?
00:27 < ntd> the stream clog up, huuuge cpu spike
00:28 < Cl3arD3stroy3r> hello everone?
00:28 < Cl3arD3stroy3r> can anyone tell best distribution for linux?
00:28 < seven-eleven> should a custom DNS never be listening on a WAN, because everybody can find out about your network, so better to create a VPN between sites and have the DNS listen only within the vpn subnet?
00:29 < triceratux> Cl3arD3stroy3r: mx-17
00:29 < Cl3arD3stroy3r> what?
00:29 < Cl3arD3stroy3r> i mean like ubuntu opensuse etc
00:29 < Aleric> dotcomboom: Thanks. I managed to improve it greatly by not using 'Breeze' (now using 'Compact'). However, the "Recently used" ordering is simply broken. It only has the last three windows or so at the top, if I switch between four windows they get bumped way down again.
00:30 < dotcomboom> ah
00:30 < Aleric> Also, the page you gave me says "By default the Breeze effect is used. This effect displays a small thumbnail of each window in a list at the left of the screen..." that is not true. The shown icons are HUGE - only 5 or so fit on my 23" monitor.
00:31 < triceratux> https://www.linux.com/learn/intro-to-linux/2018/4/mx-linux-mid-weight-distro-focused-simplicity
00:31 < dotcomboom> The page is from 2015 or so
00:32 < Aleric> Ideally there would be a task switcher that grouped the tasks by type, put the most recently used one first (that is, alt-tab switch back to the previously used window, twice alt-tab switches to the second-last used window, etc).
00:33 < Aleric> I can imagine that it's easy to change this if I had the source code...
00:34 < triceratux> Aleric: its simpler than that. sane DEs let you swap the WM pretty trivially. even on kde plasma you should just be able to cut in openbox or icewm or i3 or xfwm4
00:35 < Mead> so I've been fuzzing with a homebrewed steamOS system off and on for the last few weeks, and I added something that gave me the debian repository to install Kodi early on.  Is there a way to see what repositories I added when i did that?
00:36 < Aleric> Hmmmwell.. going to try to work like this for now. Thanks for the help all :)
00:41 < searedvandal> Mead, have you added that many repositories to your sources.list file? Kodi should be in the main repo in debian 9 and the backports repo in debian 8
00:48 < inthl> I have a networking issue with my default gateway in a virtual machine. I have 3 machines, 2 work as expected, but one assumes some wrong default gw, I have no idea why - but I need this fixed asap, for about an hour I failed to do so, I am not that into routing.
00:48 < inthl> https://pastebin.com/UhD0Ngw7 this is how it should be (on top) and how it does not work, see below
00:49 < inthl> note that 10.0.2.0 is on another Iface, 3, not 8
00:50 < inthl> all of the machines /etc/networking are identical, except for another IP
00:50 < darkmeson> inthl: do you have multiple dhcp servers racing against each other?
00:50 < inthl> I don't think so, the VMs are all started on the same host, same host software, same networking config
00:50 < darkmeson> that's the usual issue
00:51 < inthl> the guests retreive the DHCP data from the host afaik
00:51 < inthl> there is one private network, the 10. one, which all hosts share
00:52 < jim> how can it be one if it's ten?
00:53 < inthl> regardless of the reason, could one provide the commands to change the default gw perhaps? I tried del and add, but always got some error message, like network is down or something
00:53 < jim> oh I see, a 10.x.y.z net
00:53 < koala_man> how do you find which process has bound to a socket if that process hasn't listened or connected yet? nc -l -p says the port is in use, but it's not showing up with lsof, ss or netstat
00:53 < inthl> jim, well all 3 VMs have 3 interfaces, 127.0.01, then everone has the same 10.0.2.15 - and the third interface has one unique 192. ...
00:53 < Dan39> koala_man: process might be gone
00:54 < darkmeson> inthl: route del default; route add default dev <interface> ggw <gw address>
00:54 < koala_man> Dan39: It's not, I'm currently using a test program that is definitely running
00:55 < Dan39> koala_man: sudo those commands?
00:55 < darkmeson> Alternatively, ""ip route del default; ip route add default dev <interface> via <gw address>"
00:55 < inthl> darkmeson, thank you very much
00:55 < Dan39> what arguments are you using koala_man ?
00:56 < inthl> I did it like route del default gw 192.168.1.254 and then add otheraddress otherdev
00:56 < inthl> but as mentioned, that resulted in errors
00:56 < inthl> your command works fine, gw instead of ggw of course :>
00:56 < koala_man> Dan39: nc -l -p 21000, netstat -an | grep 21000  , fuser 21000/tcp , ss -an | grep 21000, with and without sudo
00:56 < darkmeson> inthl: You might also want to check your dhcp client leases files to make sure you're getting addresses from where you're supposed to be. They're typically in /var/lib/dhcp
00:57 < darkmeson> Or you could try running dhclient or dhcpcd manually, or check for messages in your syslog
00:57 < Dan39> koala_man: try ss -nap
00:58 < Dan39> or ss -pan is funny also :D
00:59 < jonan> anyone manage to succesfully point steam to an external HD in linux? It seems that even after giving 777 permissions to the drive, that steam is still thinking it is an unmountable drive
00:59 < jonan> e.g, that it needs execute permissions, though it already has it
01:00 < koala_man> Dan39: no difference
01:00 < koala_man> if I lsof the process I can see  "foo     30769 vidar    3u  sock    0,9      0t0 21708557 protocol: TCP"  but I haven't been able to get a port number from it
01:01 < darkmeson> jonan: need more information
01:04 < gnulligan> hey hey
01:04 < jonan> darkmeson: my external HD is owned by my user and group, and has full permissions. i'm trying to have steam load/install games on that drive. The drive is able to be detected by steam, as when going into Settings -> Downloads -> Manage Steam Libraries, and then pointing to the directory of where the games will be installed, the error that pops up is " New steam library folder must be on a filesystem mounted
01:04 < gnulligan> guys
01:04 < jonan> with execute permissions", though this should already be the case
01:05 < MikeFromIT> what it do boo gnulligan
01:05 < gnulligan> guys I'm trying to decide between zorin os or deepin os for a linux newbie
01:05 < gnulligan> it's a work computer so stability is important
01:05 < MikeFromIT> Is this your laptop that you work on or a company laptop>
01:05 < MikeFromIT> ?
01:06 < gnulligan> me?
01:06 < MikeFromIT> Yes
01:06 < gnulligan> my laptop?
01:06 < gnulligan> what? lol I'm talking about a desktop
01:06 < MikeFromIT> So it's yours that you just work on
01:07 < gnulligan> right
01:07 < gnulligan> A/V editing, so up-to-date and stable drivers are important
01:07 < gnulligan> b/c vega graphics
01:07 < gnulligan> deepin I think has a rolling release model
01:07 < gnulligan> zorin is based on ubuntu LTS
01:09 < gnulligan> so I guess that means Zorin might be more stable while deepin might support my Zen APU better and give better performance, right?
01:09 < MikeFromIT> https://www.slant.co/versus/2702/2713/~deepin_vs_zorin-os
01:09 < gnulligan> >slant.co
01:09 < gnulligan> have you no shame, son?
01:10 < MikeFromIT> Nah
01:10 < Disconsented> Wow that site is kinda terrible
01:10 < MikeFromIT> It does the most basic of comparisons alright
01:10 < MikeFromIT> and I use the term alrigh loosely
01:10 < Disconsented> and gets other things outright wrong
01:11 < gnulligan> if something is 50% right and 50% wrong, then it's probably random
01:11 < darkmeson> jonan: so the filesystem is already mounted at that point?
01:11 < gnulligan> anyway, which should I use???
01:11 < gnulligan> I need your help
01:11 < gnulligan> please
01:11 < Disconsented> Generally windows
01:12 < Disconsented> AMDGPU might be great but the Windows drivers are still a lot better
01:12 < gnulligan> I was afraid of that
01:12 < MikeFromIT> The real question is do you want a rolling release or no?
01:12 < gnulligan> and I've been preparing a dual-boot on here actually
01:12 < gnulligan> I'll keep windows on one partition and linux on the other
01:13 < gnulligan> its for someone else, I'm not a newbie lol
01:13 < gnulligan> but it needs to be newbie friendly
01:13 < Disconsented> For newbie friendly linux I generally recommend cinnamon
01:13 < nonconvergent> `nohup gradlew bootRun > output.log 2>&1` is redirecting stdout and stderr to my log file, right?
01:13 < gnulligan> Disconsented: I don't mean retard friendly
01:14 < nonconvergent> I mean, it isn't, and I'm trying to figure out why, so I'm starting with whether or not the redirects are correct
01:14 < jonan> darkmeson: yes that's correct
01:14 < Disconsented> Well they're the same thing to me
01:14 < gnulligan> lol
01:14 < gnulligan> cinnamon and gnome are so constraining now
01:15 < jim> gnulligan, don't be mean (your usage of "retard" looked mean)
01:15 < gnulligan> hmm... Disconsented what distro do you recommend?
01:15 < Disconsented> In this context? The one I just recommended
01:15 < gnulligan> jim: sorry lol
01:16 < gnulligan> well, cinnamon is a DE, not a distro. So I guess I mean what cinnamon distro do you recommend?
01:16 < Dan39> gnulligan: definitely dont use zorin or deepin
01:16 < gnulligan> Dan39: really? Neither?
01:16 < darkmeson> jonan: You chown'ed and chmod'ed AFTER mounting it, right? And it's a normal filesystem like ext4 or btrfs rather than something exotic like vfat, ntfs, or zfs?
01:16 < Disconsented> Whoops sorry
01:16 < Disconsented> Mint is what I meant
01:17 < Dan39> debian, fedora, ubuntu, mint, any of them are fine
01:17 < gnulligan> Oh that
01:17 < gnulligan> mint... it looks so ugly though
01:17 < Disconsented> I think it looks fine
01:17 < searedvandal> you can change how it looks?
01:17 < Dan39> then make it look how you want?
01:17 < MikeFromIT> If you aren't using it does it really matter how it looks?
01:18 < Dan39> gnulligan: just make the jump and install
01:18 < jonan> darkmeson: yes i chowned and chmodded it after, and the drive is ext4
01:18 < gnulligan> welll its a family member MikeFromIT
01:18 < Dan39> any of them, just do it
01:18 < Dan39> oh, for a family member?
01:18 < Dan39> just install ubuntu and be done with it
01:19 < gnulligan> I DISLIKE UBUNTU
01:19 < gnulligan> VERY MUCH
01:19 < Dan39> fedora then
01:19 < searedvandal> gnulligan, I see it's for A/V editing. is the A/V editing software your family member is using available on linux?
01:20 < gnulligan> yes searedvandal
01:20 < gnulligan> gimp, blender, OBS... could be anything
01:20 < searedvandal> gnulligan, I would suggest going with something you're comfortable with yourself, since I'm guessing you are the one that will end up getting the support calls :)
01:21 < gnulligan> haha yeah thats true
01:21 < jim> hmm, caps lock be stuck...
01:21 < Dan39> no, he just DISLIKE UBUNTU VERY MUCH
01:21 < gnulligan> ^ yes
01:21 < jim> shift key be stuck
01:21 < gnulligan>  frbh.
01:21 < Dan39> finger stuck on key
01:22 < searedvandal> gnulligan, what distro are you using yourself?
01:24 < darkmeson> jonan: the only thing I can think of is that it might be trying to remount the filesystem, so you might try tacking 'user' onto the fstab entry and see if that helps
01:26 < jonan> darkmeson: thanks i'll look into it with fstab
01:40 < gnulligan> Should I go with rolling or fixed release cycles?
01:40 < gnulligan> If I want the best support for new hardware
01:40 < gnulligan> like a zen/vega APU
01:40 < gnulligan> while still being stable
01:40 < Psi-Jack> Rolling Release != Stable
01:41 < Disconsented> Pick one or the other, they tend to be mutually exclusive
01:41 < darkmeson> It depends on how much bandwidth you have available
01:42 < gnulligan> well Psi-Jack Windows 10 is basically rolling-release now
01:42 < Aph3x-WL> you're confusing rolling release with bleeding edge, rolling release can be very stable
01:42 < gnulligan> and it's unusual for it to break tbh
01:42 < Psi-Jack> And, well, Windows is also the buggiest most insecure piece of fecal matter you can get.
01:42 < gnulligan> during feature upgrades, which include in-place kernel upgrades
01:42 < gnulligan> exactly
01:43 < darkmeson> rolling releases tend to use huge amounts of bandwidth due to frequent updates, but you never have to futz with new releases (in theory)
01:43 < gnulligan> so if Windows can do it Psi-Jack
01:43 < gnulligan> then there has to be a linux distro that does too
01:43 < Aph3x-WL> solus
01:43 < Loshki> gnulligan: and I want lots of social services but no taxes. Sometimes what you want just isn't realistic. It's not that you can't have new+stable, it's just horribly, horrendously expensive. Like space station expensive...
01:44 < darkmeson> I can attest to that for Debian testing and opensuse tumbleweed. they're pretty stable
01:44 < Loshki> 14.04 LTS may be the most stable distro on the planet
01:44 < darkmeson> new != bleeding edge
01:44 < gnulligan> what about semi-rolling?
01:45 < gnulligan> I can settle for that
01:45 < Loshki> semi-stable
01:45 < gnulligan> at least I get in-place upgrades
01:45 < darkmeson> people who want to ride the bleeding edge actually need fixed release distros like fedora, because they DO break so frequently
01:45 < jim> you'd get that with debian
01:45 < Dan39> i use fedora on a work laptop and its treated me well across a few upgrades (without reinstall)
01:45 < Psi-Jack> gnulligan: Fedora
01:45 < gnulligan> it has to be a newb os
01:45 < Aph3x-WL> fedora has never broken on me
01:46 < Dan39> fedora isn't newb enough ?
01:46 < revel> Then you haven't tried hard enough :D
01:46 < Dan39> it has a graphical installer and all
01:46 < gnulligan> maybe deepin?
01:46 < darkmeson> deb-based distros are actually pretty horrible for in-place upgrades
01:46 < Dan39> graphical software management
01:46 < Dan39> i said NO DEEPIN
01:46 < Dan39> DEEPIN VERY MUCH BAD
01:46 < gnulligan> why?
01:46 < Aph3x-WL> deepinOS is nice
01:46 < Aph3x-WL> even though i don't like debian
01:46 < gnulligan> whats wrong with deepin?
01:46 < gnulligan> I'm interested, I was considering it
01:46 < jim> darkmeson, I dunno, worked fine for me for a lot of years
01:46 < Dan39> Developer  Wuhan Deepin Technology Co., Ltd,
01:47 < gnulligan> uhhuh
01:47 < Aph3x-WL> oh noes a chinese mades it
01:47 < gnulligan> so?
01:47 < darkmeson> the design philosophy as well as long-standing limitations in dpkg make in-place upgrades beyond difficult for unseasoned users
01:47 < Dan39> i feel like this is fake support and you are just here to push deepin
01:47 < Aph3x-WL> gnulligan: ignorant people are afraid of chinese software
01:47 < darkmeson> especially irt package installations wedging
01:48 < Aph3x-WL> yet they'll happily run software from the US lol
01:48 < gnulligan> Aph3x-WL: well I'm not chinese so even if it's spying on me I don't care lol
01:48 < Dan39> pretty much
01:48 < Dan39> i ignorant! ok
01:48 < gnulligan> Dan39: why do you think I'm pushing something?
01:48 < Dan39> you solved it
01:48 < ldlework> give me nixos or give me death
01:49  * Psi-Jack kills ldlework 
01:49  * ldlework dies.
01:49 < Loshki> One death token dispatched, tracking number to follow...
01:49 < Dan39> Since 2014, a portion of the company's revenue has been derived from software contracts with the Chinese government.
01:49 < Dan39> lawl
01:49 < darkmeson> Aph3x-WL: not so much, actually. that's why baidu and other clones exist within China
01:49 < Dan39> not saying anything, just pasting facts :p
01:49 < gnulligan> so deepin'sfine then?
01:50 < gnulligan> sounds fine
01:50 < Dan39> it's probably fine
01:51 < Dan39> i still don't like it, but whatever, your choice
01:51 < Loshki> https://www.quora.com/Is-Deepin-better-than-Ubuntu
01:52 < phogg> I expect they mean s/Ubuntu/Unity/
01:52 < phogg> or whatever DE Ubuntu ships now
01:53 < Dan39> well i now suspect more that gnulligan was just here to push deepin
01:53 < bdonnahue> anyone know of an open source service/rest api that performs mutex/semaphores?
01:53 < bdonnahue> looking for a way to coordinate distributed nodes but i need a semaphore
01:53 < Loshki> As I recall, Ubuntu Unity's desktop search used to 'phone home'. I recommend ubuntu, but *not* Unity. The only thing worse than spyware is spyware with a badly written GUI.
01:54 < darkmeson> GNOME 3 with extensions to make it look and act like Unity afaik
01:54 < Aph3x-WL> gnulligan: it doesn't anyway. some idiot saw that, just like in pretty much any piece of software, it was gathering statistics and without finding out what it was actually doing called it spyware because it was chinese
01:55 < Dan39> idiot because he noticed it and questioned it?
01:55 < Loshki> darkmeson: I don't know why anyone would bother. Unity was rubbish and offered nothing special (if you don't count the spyware). Whatever ubuntu's business plan was...
01:55 < Dan39> am i not allowed to question things?
01:55 < darkmeson> Loshki: that was the amazon lens, but even ubuntu "phones home" with popularity-contest, etc
01:55 < Dan39> im an idiot too?
01:56 < Aph3x-WL> Dan39: no, if you'd read what i said you would know exactly why i said that guy was an idiot. he didn't question it, he claimed it was something it wasn't and spread mass hysteria because he didn't know what he was talking about
01:56 < dannylee> K0000L
01:56 < Dan39> Aph3x-WL: got a link to that?
01:56 < phogg> darkmeson: popcon is optional; even debian has popcon
01:56 < sam0x17> Is it possible to run a process in linux through some tool or utility that will allow the process to use a file as its available RAM space?
01:57 < Dan39> Aph3x-WL: nevermind
01:57 < darkmeson> bdonnahue: how about if you explain what you're trying to do rather than insisting on a vague stack that provides a specific programming construct?
01:57 < Aph3x-WL> Dan39: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8btzme/linux_deepin_is_spyware/
01:57 < koala_man> sam0x17: what would the point of this be?
01:58 < darkmeson> phogg: I think it might be in recent releases, but it was installed and enabled by default for the longest time
01:58 < Dan39> ok you're right there
01:58 < phogg> darkmeson: It's reasonable to install it by default. Nicer not to, but reasonable since it's notoriously difficult to get actual usage numbers and the corporate guys really want that. Removing it is trivial for users who care about privacy.
01:59 < phogg> the amazon thing is less justifiable
01:59 < esselfe> I once tried to install everything in a package manager's listing... it was stupid and ended up in a reinstall
01:59 < sam0x17> @koala_man I'm dealing with some legacy software and trying to get it to work in a Google Cloud Function, which has a ram-mapped file system, and long story short the garbage collector in this software can't handle the weird ram setup and thinks there is no available memory
01:59 < darkmeson> phogg: it would be acceptable, IF data were collected over Tor
01:59 < darkmeson> Or at the very least if permission were requested before sending anything
02:00 < darkmeson> Anything that phones home without permission IS spyware imo
02:00 < sam0x17> so if I could emulate ram for that process using a file, there would be no performance penalty in this environment
02:00 < koala_man> sam0x17: weird. do you know how it's determining that there's no memory available?
02:00 < bdonnahue> darkmeson, i have some appclications that do work. sometimes i want a pool of workers to compete to obtain a semaphore lock to process some work
02:00 < sam0x17> @koala_man here is an strace of it crashing: https://pastebin.com/hqyuZgS8
02:01 < darkmeson> even worse if it phones home silently as popularity-contest was doing in Ubuntu
02:01 < phogg> darkmeson: Most users have no interest in anything like that level of privacy. As long as it's not being done in secret and there is no penalty for disabling it myself having that kind of recording on by default is okay.
02:02 < koala_man> sam0x17: what's that address it tries to remap?
02:02 < phogg> darkmeson: It would be nice if there were an install-time prompt, such as what Debian provides, asking you to opt in. Or even a first-run prompt. That would be better. But it's not spying on you to collect semi-anonymous package count information.
02:03 < phogg> darkmeson: popcon isn't silent, it's just in the background. There's no point to providing a UI for it. If you don't know it's there that says more about you than it does about Ubuntu.
02:03 < electrosys> hi
02:03 < sam0x17> @koala_man I think it has the addresses in the pastebin -- it's literally just trying to run `--version` on the binary which should be super undemanding
02:03 < s0k_iT> can someone tell me what 'grep -aE' does
02:03 < sam0x17> i.e. it thinks there is literally no ram
02:04 < phogg> s0k_iT: man grep
02:04 < darkmeson> bdonnahue: apart from mpi stacks and tools like torque that are intended for that, the usual way to handle that situation is either with a db or a network-mounted share (or a clustered filesystem like ocfs2 or gfs2) that the software checks for, and drops dotfiles on, to lock various resources
02:04 < Dan39> s0k_iT: have you looked at the man?
02:04 < sam0x17> and I've confirmed that there is about 1.7 gigs available at this point in execution
02:04 < s0k_iT> i can only find -a not -aE
02:04 < phogg> s0k_iT: in other words: YOU can tell this by merely reading the manual. I can also tell you, by copying and pasting from the manual. What part of the manual's explanation do you not understand?
02:04 < koala_man> sam0x17: -aE is the same as -a -E
02:04 < koala_man> I mean s0k_iT
02:04 < s0k_iT> ok thats what I thought just wanted to make sure, thanks
02:05 < electrosys> s0k_iT: man grep -> /-E
02:05 < Dan39> s0k_iT: arguments usually work that way
02:05 < s0k_iT> I got it now just wasnt sure if -a + -E was equal to -aE
02:05 < Dan39> and usually -Ea is same as -aE
02:05 < s0k_iT> good to know
02:06 < Dan39> though for grep it might not be actually
02:06 < Dan39> yea those ones are same
02:07 < Dan39> if the arg required something after it, then the order might matter, like with -A and -B
02:07 < sam0x17> koala_man: here is the github issue for this with a little bit more info -- when I said legacy software that was a bit inaccurate I was just hoping for a workaround other than getting the people who wrote this GC to fix this as they are a bit unresponsive https://github.com/ivmai/bdwgc/issues/225
02:07 < phogg> s0k_iT: most programs allow short option bundling like that, although not all. Usually the rule of thumb is that if both --long-options and -s options are supported short options can be combined, if they don't require a parameter. E.g. -n 1 may not be able to be combined because the n needs to be associated with the 1.
02:07 < darkmeson> phogg: being as package installations effectively create a unique fingerprint of the system, there's nothing anonymous about it at all. in fact, very little that anyone collects is once it's cross-referenced with various other dbs
02:08 < bdonnahue> darkmeson, thanks... im trying to decide on a db, but they all have such overhead compared to what I am trying to do
02:08 < phogg> s0k_iT: only programs which have -long-options with a single leading dash are likely to forbid this bundling.
02:08 < Dan39> you can often combine them when parameter required, but then it would have to be the last one, like with the command tar -xzf myarxhive.tar.gz
02:09 < phogg> darkmeson: the information could be used that way but that is not the intent or the practice. If you complain about a little harmless detail like this no one will be able to tell when you start complaining about something truly bad,.
02:09 < s0k_iT> so just to make sure I have it right |grep -aE 'IP ADDR HERE'| will pipe out an IP as if it were text and interpret the pattern as an extended regular expression?
02:10 < phogg> s0k_iT: yes, but you can probably omit -a with GNU grep and get the expected result.
02:10 < s0k_iT> thanks phogg
02:10 < phogg> s0k_iT: if you really are matching an IP you probably want grep -F
02:10 < phogg> s0k_iT: aka fgrep
02:10 < Dan39> was about to say that
02:11 < Dan39> grep -iRF is my favorite :P
02:11 < phogg> s0k_iT: this is because . is a regex metacharacter, so 192.158.1.1 must be written as 192\.168\.1\.1 to get an accurate match. With fgrep you don't need to escape since there is no regex.
02:11 < phogg> Dan39: you should avoid -i whenever you can; case insensitivity is horrifically slow
02:11 < Dan39> heh
02:11 < revel> Or 192\\.168\\.1\\.1, or '192\.168\.1\.1'
02:11 < Dan39> don't doubt it, but it helps :P
02:12 < s0k_iT> so what if you want it to examine all possible IPs?
02:12 < revel> The shell tends to eat the first slashes.
02:12 < phogg> revel: one presumes that the string is single-quoted: grep '192\.168\.1\.1'
02:12 < darkmeson> bdonnahue: redis might be lower overhead and still have just enough functionality, or maybe something like memcachedb? dotfiles on a network share of some source would be able the most minimalist option though
02:12 < revel> Well, it wasn't explicitly stated.
02:12 < phogg> s0k_iT: you can find IP-matching expressions via Google quite trivially. And then you would want grep -E (aka egrep)
02:13 < phogg> revel: the original example provided a single-quoted pattern, so I thought we could take it as a given
02:13 < Hugbox> Hi,sorry if this is a silly issue.  I'm on Ubuntu 18.04 trying to compile linux 4.17.1 and make gives me the this error: arch/x86/Makefile:184: *** Compiler lacks asm-goto support..  Stop."
02:13 < Hugbox> I googled it and the only answers I could find said I was running a version of gcc older than 4, but mine is 7.3.0
02:13 < revel> Ah, it was too far up.
02:13 < electrosys> hi
02:13 < s0k_iT> something like [0-9]+\.[0-9]+\.[0-9]+\.[0-9]+/?
02:13 < revel> s0k_iT: I'd use \d instead of [0-9]
02:14 < phogg> s0k_iT: that will work but you can be a lot tighter if you want to validate
02:14 < phogg> revel: \d is non-standard, although GNU supports it
02:14 < revel> I don't plan on using BSD grep.
02:14 < s0k_iT> alrighty, thanks for help guys
02:15 < phogg> revel: technically you want [[:digit:]]; that's the standard way
02:15 < Dan39> ha
02:15 < koala_man> sam0x17: have you checked that /dev/zero exists and does the expected thing in this environment?
02:15 < revel> I think [0..255] also works, and is more likely to not get false positives.
02:16 < sam0x17> koala_man: I could check that -- what would a good test be as I'm not super familiar with /dev/zero
02:16 < phogg> Hugbox: you could try looking at line 184 of the makefile and see what check it's running
02:16 < Dan39> revel: hmm, really?
02:16 < Dan39> not sure ive ever seen that syntax in a regex
02:16 < revel> Hmm, not sure.
02:16 < revel> Since '256' would still match i.e '2'
02:16 < phogg> revel: that's a shell range but it won't work inside a regex
02:16 < Dan39> bash does some shell expansions like that i know..
02:16 < revel> idk
02:16 < koala_man> sam0x17: ls -l  plus  head -c 1000000 /dev/zero | od -t x1
02:16 < revel> Yeah, dunno where I got it from, now.
02:17 < sam0x17> koala_man: I'll add that and give you the output
02:17 < Dan39> revel: i would guess from bash, which can do {1..255} syntax
02:18 < darkmeson> phogg: the thing you're failing to see here is the  recently passed CLOUD act basically gives LEOs in the US carte blanche to anything stored online, including things like this
02:18 < Hugbox> "ifndef CC_HAVE_ASM_GOTO  $(error Compiler lacks asm-goto support.)#endif" phogg my apologies for being so lost I've just never encountered this before
02:18 < phogg> revel: you want something more like this: egrep '(25[0-5]|2[0-4][0-9]|[01]?[0-9][0-9]?)\.(25[0-5]|2[0-4][0-9]|[01]?[0-9][0-9]?)\.(25[0-5]|2[0-4][0-9]|[01]?[0-9][0-9]?)\.(25[0-5]|2[0-4][0-9]|[01]?[0-9][0-9]?)'
02:18 < revel> Yeah, and even {0000..9999} and so on.
02:18 < revel> lol
02:18 < phogg> revel: if you want to be exact, that is
02:19 < revel> Yeah, I was thinking "hmm, this would be pretty annoying to do in grep"
02:19 < Dan39> maybe better not to use grep?
02:19 < darkmeson> Putting extra ammunition into the hands of a demographic that's ripe with sociopathy, narcissism, and other dangerous, antisocial patterns is anything but "harmless"
02:19 < phogg> darkmeson: Still not an issue for me. If you care about privacy you can protect yourself. Everyone else isn't getting screwed over in a way they will care about.
02:20 < Dan39> split by ".", confirm you get 4, and then check them by arithmetic to see if 1-255?
02:20 < phogg> Hugbox: it would take more work to find out what defines that symbol
02:20 < phogg> Dan39: that would be more efficient, but more people know how to write a regex than can write an awk script
02:21 < esselfe> for i in {1..6}; do [ $((RANDOM%2)) -eq 1 ] && { echo "BANG!"; break; } || echo Click; done
02:21 < esselfe> That's fast
02:22 < revel> esselfe: Wait, %2?
02:22 < esselfe> it gives 0 or 1
02:22 < revel> It's a 50% chance PER HOLE?
02:22 < revel> (I know what %2 does)
02:22 < Hugbox> phogg Hmm, I'm gonna see if I can figure that out, thank you very much for that bit of direction
02:23 < darkmeson> phogg whether or not it's an issue for you is irrelevant. The simple fact is, anything that doesn't obtain informed consent before acting is basically spyware or malware. Note that I DID add an 'imo' on the original message btw, and I AM just as entitled to my view as you to yours ;)
02:23 < revel> You only have a 1/(0.5 ** 6) chance of surviving that.
02:23 < esselfe> ok for i in {1..100}; do [ $((RANDOM%6)) -eq 0 ] && { echo "BANG!"; break; } || echo Click; done
02:24 < revel> Okay, 1/( (1/6) ** 100) doesn't seem much better to me...
02:24 < phogg> darkmeson: I'm just tired of the hysteria over this subject. Fight a more useful battle.
02:24 < esselfe> said that we're 100 to play
02:24 < revel> What?
02:24 < phogg> esselfe: perl -e ' print "Click\n" while int(rand(6)) ; die "BANG!\n"'
02:25 < codebam> what kernel config option do I need for fwmark support in iproute2?
02:25 < esselfe> actually some other player can put a bullet back, so it's for i in {1..100}; do [ $((RANDOM%6)) -eq 0 ] && echo "BANG!" || echo Click; done
02:26 < revel> Probably CONFIG_NETFILTER_XT_{,TARGET_}MARK (one of those two)
02:26 < darkmeson> phogg: Well, I'm sick of people instigating arguments that go way offtopic and then trying to play the victim when I suggest agreeing to disagree. There are no victims, only differences of opinion. Realize them, and move on rather than trying to create friction
02:26 < sam0x17> koala_man: https://pastebin.com/UkcSrQtx this is what it returned
02:26 < revel> Oh, the latter selects the former.
02:26 < phogg> darkmeson: I'm trying to reduce friction.
02:27 < koala_man> hahalolwat
02:27 < revel> Wait, that's nfmark?
02:27 < darkmeson> phogg: fine. I take that as an implicit agreement to disagree ;)
02:28 < koala_man> sam0x17: what exactly did you run?
02:28 < sam0x17> koala_man: that's the output for `ls -l plus head -c 1000000 /dev/zero | od -t x1` if I run that in the cloud function right before the out of memory crash
02:29 < koala_man> sam0x17: the 'plus' was supposed to be english "and also"
02:29 < sam0x17> oh lolol
02:29 < sam0x17> hold on
02:29 < koala_man> ls -l /dev/zero; head -c 1000000 /dev/zero | od -t x1
02:30 < phogg> darkmeson: I am not arguing with you. This is a public forum. I am providing an alternative perspective (and narrative) for the benefit of the bystander who may otherwise think that your opinion represents a fact that is generally agreed to. That is all.
02:30 < phogg> darkmeson: your participation is otherwise entirely incidental
02:31  * darkmeson usually just refers them to security channels and groups
02:32 < darkmeson> We're not exactly peer-reviewed by the right kind of professionals in venues like this, after all
02:33 < sam0x17> koala_man: ok so ls -l is just returning this because it's in a temp directory (only /tmp is writable on this filesystem): 'total 34204 drwxr-xr-x 5 root root        0 Mar  8 04:15 crystal-0.24.2 -rw-rw-r-- 1 root root 35022853 Jun 15 00:31 crystal-0.24.2-1-linux-x86_64.tar.gz'
02:33 < koala_man> ls -l /dev/zero; head -c 1000000 /dev/zero | od -t x1
02:34 < sam0x17> kk just a min and I'll run that
02:34 < codebam> revel: okay, trying to rebuild with some more of those modules
02:34 < codebam> thanks for the help
02:34 < codebam> I hope this works
02:36 < rpifan> so my debian machine has randomly decied today to no longer reconigze my audio card at all, it just shows dumy output
02:36 < revel> codebam: Dunno, might not be it if nfmark != fwmark
02:37 < codebam> revel: I don't know really, but the last one I tried was TPROXY because there's this really old linux wiki page that says TPROXY is required to setup some transparent proxy thing, and it had fwmark in the ip command so
02:38 < codebam> I'll just keep trying until it works
02:38 < codebam> weird that it's completely undocumented as far as I can tell
02:39 < koala_man> sam0x17: I'm seeing that the very few files in /dev all have major/minor 0,0 . this is very clearly not a typical Linux runtime
02:41 < sam0x17> koala_man: yeah, that doesn't surprise me -- google doesn't tell us anything about what the runtime is, but probably some super super stripped down linux system with a ramfs and only /tmp is writable
02:43 < sam0x17> koala_man: output for ls command: crw-rw-rw- 0 root root 0, 0 Jun 15 00:35 /dev/zero
02:43 < koala_man> it appears to support reads/writes to /dev/zero but not mmap
02:43 < sam0x17> koala_man: output for head command: 0000000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
02:44 < sam0x17> yeah, it's odd because other programs are able to do dynamic memory no problem
02:44 < darkmeson> rpifan: check 'lspci -k' and see if there's a "kernel module in use" for your card
02:44 < koala_man> followed by * followed by 3641100, i.e. it got a bunch of repeated nul bytes as expected
02:45 < koala_man> sam0x17: I have a GCP cloud function running. How much of a hassle is it to reproduce your problem with that binary?
02:45 < rpifan> 	Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
02:45 < rpifan> 	Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel, snd_soc_skl
02:46 < Psi-Jack> Anyone here tried Solus? I'm curious, never have myself, until now (in a VM though)
02:47 < Dan39> send hda to intel!?
02:47 < Dan39> spyware!
02:47 < electrosys> anyone know how to set the mplayer position to go into the top right corner? I figured out how to zoom and stuff, but I would like to watch the video in the top right corner instead of the center.
02:48 < Dan39> electrosys: maybe using something like wmctrl?
02:48 < koala_man> sam0x17: nm, I have to run
02:48 < electrosys> You have to watch computer chronicals about Unix if you work in the frambuffer.
02:48 < Dan39> oh, framebuffer? -_-
02:49 < Dan39> ive tried it once or twice, mind blown, graphics over my console!!
02:49 < Dan39> hehe
02:49 < Dan39> seriously
02:49 < Dan39> and don't even get me started on that mouse support in console thing
02:50 < electrosys> why is it so mind blowing? The thing is I know were your comming from. People dont realize that graphics came before windows. You don't have to have a window to have graphics, that belief is what created all these windows API's.
02:50 < darkmeson> rpifan: your chip has a driver registered, good. check the pavucontrol's "Configuration" section and make sure it isn't set to the "Off" profile
02:50 < miccleo> is there a way to proxy localhost so that another device on my network can access it?
02:50 < miccleo> something in /etc/hosts perhaps?
02:51 < Dan39> electrosys: i grew up after the DOS days :P. my first pc i ever had was actually a DOS when i was like 8 years old, but i only had it for maybe a couple months, then we got windows 98 pc soon after
02:51 < lnnb> electrosys: framebuffer panning?
02:51  * darkmeson used to use the framebuffer on old world macs since the bus speed was too slow for fullscreen video otherwise
02:52 < darkmeson> miccleo: just bind it to 0.0.0.0 instead
02:52 < miccleo> darkmeson: how do i do that?
02:52 < darkmeson> most software that's bound to localhost by default is done that way to keep you from shooting yourself in the foot like that in the first place
02:52 < electrosys> Dan39, windows took my soul away.. I didn't really have access to linux, I was probably too intimidated and in 90's it was a lot harder to install.
02:53 < electrosys> windoze is designed to make you stupid and buy stuff.
02:53 < darkmeson> miccleo: that depends on what you're trying to access off-device
02:54 < miccleo> darkmeson: i'm trying to access a webapp served locally on a mobile device
02:54 < Psi-Jack> Besides i3 and awesome, what Window Managers or Desktop Environment's (and their WM) do multi-desktop per display?
02:54 < electrosys> Dan39, lnnb: I would think since mplayer has zoom control and you can set X and Y, there must be an option to set the position of the video as well, I just can't find it.
02:54 < miccleo> i can do it through the ip address, however i'm getting complaints from the browser that camera access is blocked for unsecured sites
02:54 < lnnb> electrosys: -zrxdoff  and -zrydoff
02:54 < Dan39> Psi-Jack: what do you mean, multi-desktop per a "virtual desktop" / workspace / whatever?
02:54 < miccleo> i guess localhost doesn't count
02:54 < miccleo> it's just strange that localhost works fine but not the ip address
02:55 < Psi-Jack> Dan39: As in does multiple virtual desktops per physical display, like i3 does.
02:55 < darkmeson> miccleo: so, apache httpd, tomcat, what?
02:55 < miccleo> i suppose localhost is an exception
02:55 < Dan39> Psi-Jack: oh, didn't know it did
02:55 < Psi-Jack> Dan39: Also akin to macOS's "workspaces" which is also per display.
02:55 < miccleo> darkmeson node
02:55 < rpifan> darkmeson, just shows dummy contorl
02:55 < rpifan> output
02:55 < Dan39> oh you mean, switch between multiple per display?
02:55 < Dan39> yea yea, gotcha, knew that
02:55 < Dan39> each  monitor has its own set of virtual desktops?
02:55 < Psi-Jack> Yes
02:55 < Dan39> i hate that
02:56 < Dan39> i really really hate that
02:56 < Psi-Jack> I /love/ that. heh
02:56 < electrosys> Wow, watching a video play right over my weechat in the framebuffer was amazing, even more amazing than seeing that music video that was included in win95'.
02:56 < Dan39> if i have several windows setup on 2nd monitor, all tiled just right, i want to be able to take that whole setup as is and move it over to the other monitor
02:56 < electrosys> Is it just me or do graphics look a little clearer in the frame buffer?
02:57 < Dan39> like xmonad :P
02:57 < Psi-Jack> Sure.. i3 can do that too. I just get tired sometimes of how i3 tiles .... everything.
02:57 < Dan39> how can i3 do that?
02:58 < electrosys> I had dos and geo works. on a 286 i think . 4mb of ram, at the time $130 bucks for 4mb more. I ran a bbs.
02:58 < Dan39> i swear i tried i3 and it couldnt, at least not easyily/well
02:58 < darkmeson> rpifan: 'killall pulseaudio && rmmod snd_hda_intel && modprobe snd_hda_intel && pulseaudio --log-target=syslog --start', and check pavucontrol again (if nothing errored out). Otherwise, check dmesg for clues
02:59 < Psi-Jack> Dan39: Well, the way I do workspaces in i3... I have 1-5 on my left monitor, 6-0 on my right, so if I want to move everything on one display to another, I just use the binding I setup to do exactly that, it swaps workspaces.
02:59 < Dan39> please do share
03:00 < Psi-Jack> I don't even use that, so I don't even recall exactly how I did it., but most certainly did. Believe it uses i3-msg
03:00 < darkmeson> miccleo: I'm not familiar enough with node to advise you, apart from saying that there's usually a configuration directive called something like 'listen' or 'bind'. If you grep the configs for 'localhost' or '127.0.0.1', you'll probably find it, if it exists
03:00 < Psi-Jack> Or my custom script which I designed for my workspace setup, which uses i3-ipc
03:01 < rpifan> rmmod command not found
03:01 < Psi-Jack> rpifan: Are you even using Linux?
03:01 < rpifan> lol
03:02 < rpifan> sadly something
03:02 < Psi-Jack> I'm guessing that's a No.
03:02 < rpifan> iam using linux
03:02 < rpifan> thats the point
03:02 < Psi-Jack> Well, rmmod is pretty standard for a Linux program.
03:03 < Psi-Jack> Though modprobe -r is nicer than rmmod.
03:03 < rpifan> ERROR: Module snd_hda_intel is in use
03:03 < djph> probably one of those distros that doesn't have a "helper" if he's not root
03:03 < djph> ... or that
03:04 < electrosys> lnnb: I see those options you suggested. I'm using -vo, so are the options slightly different in that case? I still can't get it to work even though I have those options in the man pages right in front of me.
03:04 < lnnb> try expand
03:04 < lnnb> that was for some random hardware capture card
03:04 < lnnb> expand[=w:h:x:y:o:a:r]
03:04 < ziggylazer> is it likley that most dists will make use of the systemd?
03:04 < rpifan> will reboot
03:04 < darkmeson> miccleo: theoretically, you can do what you were actually asking for with something like 'iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING 1 -p tcp -d <ip address> --dport <port> -j DNAT --to-destination 127.0.0.1:<port>', but odds are good that you'll have more headaches than it's worth
03:06 < rpifan> same  shit
03:06 < Psi-Jack> Huh... Wierd.. Solus was updating/installing/configuring package 526 of 522 just now.
03:06 < Psi-Jack> rpifan: Kindly mind the language.
03:07 < darkmeson> rpifan: pulseaudio would typically be the main user, so it probably didn't die. 'killall -s KILL pulseaudio' gives better guarantees
03:07 < lnnb> electrosys: -geometry  is probably what you want
03:07 < Psi-Jack> pkill
03:07  * darkmeson wonders when this turned into a christian channel
03:08 < morf> meh... you know all linux users worship satan
03:09 < electrosys> lnnb: yee haa!!! thanks!
03:09 < rpifan> nothing
03:09 < darkmeson> rpifan: anyway, add that -s KILL to earlier command chain and also make sure you understand what the chain is doing
03:11 < electrosys> frame buffer is sweet!
03:11 < darkmeson> if that doesn't work, you might want to kill pulseaudio, move whichever of ~/.pulse and ~/.config/pulse exists out of the way, anrestart it , and check pavucontrol again
03:12 < rpifan> i did add the -s kill and nothing
03:12 < rpifan> it seems the issue might be the gnome audio applet but idk how to kill that
03:13 < electrosys> morf: people who troll linux changes love Jesus!
03:13 < lnnb> framebuffer alone, it's ok but i like to fast cycle between my full screened graphic clients and have global hotkeys and change resolutions, seems my fb driver is incapable of changing resolution.
03:13  * darkmeson will bbl since Riot clearly isn't working out and needs to be replaced
03:14 < electrosys> channels* ^
03:14 < ziggylazer> This has always been a christian channel
03:14 < AndroidKitKat> anyone very good at bash scripting
03:15 < electrosys> lnnb: ive never changed resolution in the middle of it.
03:15 < ziggylazer> Even slightest errors in grammar and spelling has from time to time been unacceptable
03:15 < lnnb> if i change resolution it just shrinks or grows the drawable area
03:15 < electrosys> lnnb: are you expecting it to clear the old space?
03:16 < AndroidKitKat> how can I get store the contents of a file into a variable with bash
03:16 < rpifan> sigh
03:16 < rpifan> idk what else
03:16 < lnnb> i'm expecting a 50 pixel line to be 2x larger on display if i reduce resolution by half
03:17 < electrosys> i haven't played around with that stuff. I'm just trying to do everything I would normally do in the framebuffer. I got e-mail, irc, video,
03:18 < electrosys> I'm sure ill keep running into things that will require some time to hack around with but it will all pay off.
03:29 < rpifan> ok for real someone help me with the audio i can live with lots of things but no audio is just impossible
03:29 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. Solus actually does seem rather interesting.
03:45 < rpifan> what else can i try
03:47 < AndroidKitKat> Psi-Jack: i run solus
03:47 < AndroidKitKat> any questions?
03:47 < Psi-Jack> Possibly. I've been tinkering with it a little so far in a VM.
03:47 < AndroidKitKat> Would you use budgie?
03:48 < Psi-Jack> I'm using it with Budgie now, actually.
03:48 < Psi-Jack> It also seems, even though I turned OFF the automatic tiling, it still does it. :/
03:48 < AndroidKitKat> budgie is getting an overhaul
03:48 < AndroidKitKat> after solus 4
03:49 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, heh. I noticed Solus is 3.999
03:49 < rpifan> please i beg yall
03:49 < rpifan> ill pay one of you
03:49 < rpifan> to fix my audio
03:49 < rpifan> and get the bluetooth audio working
03:49 < Psi-Jack> Excessive enter usage detected.
03:50 < Psi-Jack> AndroidKitKat: I'm curious, how do you like it in comparison to other distros?
03:50 < AndroidKitKat> I used to use Antegros
03:50 < Psi-Jack> I use Arch today, so, I'm familiar.
03:50 < AndroidKitKat> And i've tried out Ubuntu Budgie and Manjaro i3 and manjaro budgie, but something keeps pulling me back to solus
03:50 < AndroidKitKat> its got that RR taste
03:50 < AndroidKitKat> but its extremely stable
03:50 < Psi-Jack> I'm in a rut because they updated Qt5 to 5.11 from 5.10, and that breaks /so many/ things.
03:51 < AndroidKitKat> arch?
03:51 < AndroidKitKat> yea
03:51 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, plex-media-player on solus is 2.11, not yet 2.12. :/
03:52 < AndroidKitKat> the best part about solus
03:52 < AndroidKitKat> is that building packages is easy, and we love when people do it
03:53 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, that's something to investigate into.
03:54 < Psi-Jack> We?
03:54 < Psi-Jack> heh
03:56 < Psi-Jack> AndroidKitKat: One question. Does Budgie have per-monitor virtual desktops?
03:56 < Psi-Jack> I haven't yet even SEEN virtual desktops at all, yet. LOL
03:57 < AndroidKitKat> theyre there
03:57 < AndroidKitKat> its control + alt + left/right
03:58 < Psi-Jack> YEaaah, I just found it. But is it per display, or global?
03:58 < AndroidKitKat> I run solus as one screen only
03:58 < AndroidKitKat> so idk
03:58 < rpifan> come on yall someone can take the time for money right?
03:59 < rpifan> ecking for existence of '/usr/lib/pulse-11.1/modules/module-jackdbus-detect.so': failure
03:59 < Psi-Jack> Gotcha
03:59 < Psi-Jack> Well I know gnome can do it.
03:59 < lnnb> it's gonna take multiple bitcoins to fix linux audio
03:59 < rpifan> pulseaudio.service: Start request repeated too quickly.
04:00 < rpifan> Failed to start Sound Service.
04:00 < dannylee> just use head phones
04:00 < rpifan> would that work?
04:00 < rpifan> it needs an audio card doesnt it
04:01 < Psi-Jack> AndroidKitKat: and what about package repositories of my own?
04:02 < AndroidKitKat> like?
04:02 < AndroidKitKat> theres no AUR
04:02 < AndroidKitKat> theres snap and flatpak support
04:02 < AndroidKitKat> and eopkg
04:02 < Psi-Jack> Like if I make own package from solbuild and want that available on multiple computers?
04:03 < AndroidKitKat> eopkg's are system independant
04:03 < AndroidKitKat> but you can always upload to our repos
04:03 < Psi-Jack> You keep implying we/our. Hehe
04:03 < AndroidKitKat> I package things for Solitary
04:03 < AndroidKitKat> solus
04:04 < Psi-Jack> Ahhh okay
04:04 < Psi-Jack> So far it does seem to have a pretty decent package database from what I've seen so far.
04:05 < Psi-Jack> Specifically for desktop use more than anything.
04:05 < AndroidKitKat> yes
04:05 < AndroidKitKat> but we just want to cater to the home user
04:07 < Psi-Jack> What about the professional workspace? Hehe
04:08  * rpifan weeps for real
04:08 < rpifan> come on help someone out
04:08 < lnnb> rpifan: you want my advice?
04:10 < rpifan> reinstall and die?
04:10 < rpifan> or die and reinstall
04:10 < rpifan> whcih wouldnt be bad advice im sure
04:12 < lnnb> it's snd_hda_intel chip?
04:12 < rpifan> yea
04:12 < Psi-Jack> Intel audio is one of the worst.
04:13 < AndroidKitKat> ^
04:13 < lnnb> there are a lot of quirks depending on who makes it right?
04:13 < rpifan> yea i can imagine
04:13 < rpifan> but it was fine last night
04:13 < rpifan> nad i made no changes
04:14 < Psi-Jack> Not who makes it, but the specific configuration it's in.
04:14 < lnnb> i had some audio problems the other day, after rebooting 3 times it was back to normal
04:14 < Psi-Jack> I mean... Intel technically /makes/ it.
04:14 < lnnb> does lspci say anything about the card?
04:14 < rpifan> Audio device: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP HD Audio (rev 21)
04:15 < Psi-Jack> AndroidKitKat: So the auto-tiling.... I turned it off, yet still when I move a window semi-sorta near the top edge, it maximizes it still. And the distance to that point is huge and very annoying.
04:16 < AndroidKitKat> Hmm
04:16 < AndroidKitKat> You can always join #Solus and someone might help you
04:16 < AndroidKitKat> But as for me, I’m signing off for tonight
04:16 < Pegasus_RPG> Hello. Anyone here know CMake?
04:16 < lnnb> rpifan: you have all the needed devices nodes in /dev/snd ?
04:16 < lnnb> with the correct permissions?
04:17 < Pegasus_RPG> I'm trying to build a FOSS project and it appears not to see files in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/cmake/
04:17 < Psi-Jack> AndroidKitKat: Thanks for your input.
04:17 < AndroidKitKat> We love new users
04:17 < AndroidKitKat> And if you know how to package
04:17 < AndroidKitKat> We’d really like you
04:17 < Psi-Jack> Pegasus_RPG: There's #cmake
04:17 < Pegasus_RPG> Psi-Jack: yes, and it's dead ATM
04:17 < Psi-Jack> AndroidKitKat: I've done all sorts of packages for CentOS, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, etc.
04:18 < Psi-Jack> Hax0r the ATM and cash out. :)
04:18 < rpifan> by-path  controlC0  hwC0D0  hwC0D2  pcmC0D0c  pcmC0D0p  pcmC0D10p  pcmC0D3p  pcmC0D7p  pcmC0D8p  pcmC0D9p  seq  timer
04:18 < rpifan> root and audio
04:18 < AndroidKitKat> Please use solus then lol
04:18 < AndroidKitKat> We need more maintainers
04:18 < lnnb> rpifan: ok i assume that's correct, check google for "Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP HD Audio"  lots of "no sound" results
04:18 < lnnb> if that doesn't work, nuke pulse audio
04:18 < rpifan> i already tried to purge it
04:18 < lnnb> and try to play sound from terminal
04:18 < rpifan> but its got gnome dependencies
04:19 < lnnb> nuke gnome
04:19 < AndroidKitKat> Use salsa audio or something
04:19 < rpifan> so i did a resintall
04:19 < lnnb> cut and run
04:19 < rpifan> salsa audio?
04:19 < rpifan> i have had to nuke gnome severla times
04:19 < lnnb> i don't know anything about pulse so the resuls on google are your best hope at the moment
04:20 < rpifan> man
04:20 < rpifan> well thanks for rying
04:21 < Pegasus_RPG> got it. I was apparently in the wrong directory
04:21 < triceratux> rpifan: all i can say is q4os ;)
04:21 < Psi-Jack> Aww man.. no lrzsz in Solus?
04:22 < Psi-Jack> Nor zssh? Gahhh!
04:22 < rpifan> q4os?
04:22 < Psi-Jack> First two packages I actually didn't see, so far.
04:23 < triceratux> rpifan: its a debian based trinity distro that runs on raspis http://q4os.org/downloads1.html
04:24 < rpifan> hm
04:24 < rpifan> one day
04:26 < Psi-Jack> Ahh, eopkg does support repositories.
04:57 < blaster> Can anyone help me debug my IPtables rules?  For some reason remote connections to pgsql are timing out after prompting for password.
04:57 < blaster> My rules look like this: https://gist.github.com/redstar504/79b447d04d4a43bf3c38e2ee80ce985a
05:01 < Happyhobo> Hello
05:01 < ziggylazer> hello
05:03 < Happyhobo> how are you?
05:16 < electrosys> what program will give me a frame buffer console background image?
05:18 < notmike> jQuery
05:19 < lnnb> with proper alpha blending and possibility of animated wallpaper?
05:20 < lnnb> without gpu dependency
05:21 < electrosys> lnnb: it doesn't have to be animated, alpha blending would be nice.
05:21 < electrosys> I have an ati card.
05:24 < sam0x17> koala_man: hey I'm back not sure if you are still here
05:29 < rpifan> wtf i deleted the pulse audio directory
05:29 < rpifan> and now audio is working
05:30 < mophed> magic
05:30 < triceratux> great. sorry i suggested q4os
05:30 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Ever tried Solus?
05:31 < rpifan> the volume is really low tho
05:31 < Psi-Jack> "though"
05:31 < rpifan> though
05:31 < mophed> alsamixer is turned up?
05:32 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: ive looked at it. im a little more mainstream than that. i wish them luck
05:32 < rpifan> yea
05:32 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Heh, "more mainstream?"
05:32 < rpifan> i think what happened is i installed jacked out of desperation
05:32 < rpifan> and now that pulse doenst exist
05:32 < lnnb> pcm channel up?
05:32 < rpifan> jackd is working
05:32 < rpifan> this is a temp soilution im just gonna reinstall the system tommorow
05:33 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: so
05:33 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Good thing I get that new server next weekend
05:33 < Psi-Jack> Oh?
05:33 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: media drive crapped itself over night
05:33 < Psi-Jack> Yeouch
05:33 < Dominian> lost all tv/movies/music that was on it
05:34 < Dominian> yep
05:34 < Dominian> lol
05:34 < Dominian> nothing I can't get back but man
05:34 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: https://examachine.net/blog/who-really-wrote-pisi-package-manager-of-pardus-distribution/
05:34 < Dominian> had to move plex media to a network 'tiny' nas for now
05:35 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Eh?
05:35 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Oy,.. That.. Sucks.
05:47 < domhnall> alright, might be a noob question but, what's a terminfo database? and how is it invalid?
05:48 < domhnall> ...sec...didnt read this yet. https://aka.ms/pscore6-docs
05:49 < rpifan> now if i could find a way to amplify alsa
05:49 < domhnall> alsamixer not working?
05:50 < rpifan> well its set to the max
05:50 < rpifan> but it still too low
05:50 < domhnall> distro?
05:50 < domhnall> well, distro doesnt matter...might be better to know the DE
05:51 < rpifan> debian
05:51 < rpifan> gnome
05:51 < domhnall> I've exprienced that and found additional settings to raise volume
05:51 < Mot0Kus4n> i'm using debian
05:51 < rpifan> well ive unistalled pulseaudio
05:51 < domhnall> Same ...and was gonna try out pwsh but eh...bump it.
05:52 < domhnall> dont need pulse if you're using alsa
05:52 < domhnall> Intel?
05:52 < rpifan> yea
05:53 < rpifan> well i cant seem to find anyway to push the audio up
05:55 < domhnall> hm, Sorry, cant think of much else right now, mind is elsewhere. It's working fine though for me on mackbook.
05:56 < rpifan> well at least i got some sound
05:56 < rpifan> ust need to watch porn and go to bed
05:57 < rpifan> tmmoorw ill reformat the machine
05:57 < domhnall> DUDE!!
05:57 < domhnall> wash your hands!
05:58 < rpifan> before or after
05:58 < Mot0Kus4n> xD
06:01 < domhnall> anyone using Debian tried installing pwsh (powershell) and succeed?
06:05 < rpifan> y
06:06 < domhnall> vague 'y' is vague
06:06 < domhnall> If you're asking _why_ to installing powershell on debian...just because we can.
06:06 < rpifan> y r u plugging shells in your powerhole
06:07 < domhnall> What's the point of running linux if you cannot experiment and tinker
06:10 < rpifan> true
06:13 < darkmeson> rpifan: you need an equalizer plugin to amplify audio, probably
06:14 < darkmeson> It looks like debian has an alsa plugin in a package called libasound2-plugin-equal, and presumably jackeq would get you one for jackd
06:15 < darkmeson> Then there's pulseaudio-equalizer, which would obviously not benefit you atm but might be worth remembering
06:16 < kc7aad_> Could anyone offer me some help with iptables? I'm using CentOS 7.5.1804. I add the rules I need, but they do not stay in iptables after I reboot the machine (VM). I have changed the save on stop and save on reboot to yes. But it still continues to drop these two rules.
06:16 < Triffid_Hunter> argh wtf, bit of I/O on my NVMe and my system is choking? this is seriously still a thing?
06:16 < kc7aad_> Can anyone help me with this? I'm sure it's something simple, I am just a Cent noob!
06:20 < rpifan> gonna try it out
06:20 < mophed> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/125833/why-isnt-the-iptables-persistent-service-saving-my-changes
06:20 < domhnall> kc7aad_: restore the rules.
06:21 < domhnall> well, that would require the rules to be in the config file...which I dont think you mentioned...
06:21 < kc7aad_> mophed: Redirecting to /bin/systemctl start iptables-persistent.service           Failed to start iptables-persistent.service: Unit not found.
06:22 < domhnall> I dont know much about stackexhange but that says unix.
06:23 < kc7aad_> I'm wondering if I don't have all the packages that I need to.
06:24 < mophed> what distro are you on?
06:24 < jsync> Hello. I'm looking for reference for a tutorial so I can learn enough to make a gui for server software.
06:25 < domhnall> They're on Centos7
06:25 < mophed> oh my bad i see it up there
06:25 < domhnall> I think that'd be the distro I've always returned to outside of Debian.
06:26 < mophed> are you running a server?
06:26 < jsync> I'm working with OpenSim servers. I just figured out how to make bash scripts to start a terminal & start a server with a command. There's not much else that I need for a simple gui. I need a tutorial & was curious if anybody had any suggestions.
06:26 < domhnall> jsync: sure, owasp.org
06:27 < jsync> domhnall, thanks. I'll look into that.
06:27 < greves> Can anyone recommend a good/standard package for hosting a mail server? I need the following functionality: receive mail, save mail, allow POP3 access. It will only be used for an internal mailing list, and will not be sending mail or require human-friendly inbox access
06:28 < Triffid_Hunter> greves: postfix has been my goto for quite a while for receiving mail, you'll probably need something else for pop3
06:29 < mophed> kc7aad_: did you save the ip tables after adding them?
06:29 < sinatrablue> for pop3 you might want to try mail-in-a-box
06:29 < greves> https://serverfault.com/questions/301608/how-to-install-pop3-and-smtp-in-postfix
06:29 < greves> pop3 + postfix with dovecot - ever heard of that?
06:30 < mophed> hosting a mailserver sounds like a nightmare
06:30 < greves> I am open to a cloud/saas solution, but they all seem to be based around end-user access / inboxes and such
06:31 < greves> I literally just need something to save mails and allow pop3 access
06:31 < greves> it can be saving them in plain text for all i care
06:31 < mophed> are you going to send from this server?
06:31 < greves> never
06:31 < greves> Purely as pass-through for the mailing list
06:32 < mophed> qmail maybe?
06:34 < mophed> dont you want imap and not pop tho?
06:34 < greves> hm let me check
06:34 < greves> No, only supports pop3
06:34 < greves> (Discourse)
06:37 < greves> https://github.com/Maescool/docker-qmail
06:37 < greves> interesting ^
06:38 < greves> Oh this looks good: https://github.com/tomav/docker-mailserver
06:38 < greves> Alright, gonna give it a whirl, thanks for tips :)
06:45 < kc7aad_> mophed: saving the iptables.. with iptables-save ?
06:45 < mophed> yes
06:45 < kc7aad_> I did!
06:45 < domhnall> and the config file?
06:45 < kc7aad_> Sadly, no worky! Config??
06:46 < mophed> i think firewallD maybe>
06:47 < kc7aad_> is there an iptables config that I have to save? I've stopped firewalld.
06:48 < domhnall> kc7aad_: might be helpful:: https://cromwell-intl.com/cybersecurity/linux-hardening.html
06:48 < mophed> and you enabled and started the iptables service?
06:49 < kc7aad_> yes
06:50 < mophed> try using firwalld instead of iptables maybe
06:51 < mophed> or try saving with /usr/libexec/iptables/iptables.init save
06:53 < gintoo> is there a way to change hotkeys in less?
06:54 < domhnall> isnt less just a pager?
06:54 < mophed> i think so
06:54 < gintoo> yes
06:55 < mophed> whats wrong with the hotkeys in less?
06:55 < domhnall> well, tl:dr, I dont know.
06:55 < mophed> if you changed them then the man page would be all lies
06:55 < gintoo> mophed: please don't morally judge less. I'd just like to adjust hotkeys
06:55 < kc7aad_> mophed: Your last link.. it references creating a script for the iptables rules, then add that to /etc/rc.d/rc.local file. I'm a little taken back that it is this complicated! I may just be expecting too much or just not the right thing, tho!
06:56 < mophed> i think its because by default centos7 uses firewalld
06:56 < mophed> so you should just use that
06:56 < mophed> what does systemctl status iptables say
06:57 < domhnall> or iptables -L
06:57 < razwelles> What defines what's put into /sys/power/state?
06:57 < kc7aad_> Unit iptables.service could not be found.
06:57 < kc7aad_> Weird, ehh!!?
06:57 < mophed> then you didnt enable and start it
06:57 < gintoo> less has vim default hotkeys, but I can't change its hotkeys to be like my vim's configured hotkeys :(
06:57 < mophed> you yum instaled it for sure?
06:58 < kc7aad_> But it's running, because I can access my services when I add the iptables rules!
06:58 < kc7aad_> Package iptables-1.4.21-24.1.el7_5.x86_64 already installed and latest version
06:59 < mophed> systemctl enable enable iptables
06:59 < mophed> systemctl enable start iptables
06:59 < mophed> oops
06:59 < mophed> you know what i mean :)
06:59 < domhnall> aw man, now I miss Centos
07:00 < ansraliant> now that you mention centos. Do you know if the go package for centos included the go macros for building rpm?
07:00 < ansraliant> I'm trying to build an rpm for centos, but they don't have go-packaging as a different package
07:00 < domhnall> sure dont know...haven't used it in over a month.
07:01 < ansraliant> ok, it was worth a shot
07:01 < domhnall> might be in one the other repos, like extra or something
07:01 < ansraliant> oh.. wait... I could log into one of the prod servers running centos and see if they have one
07:01 < ansraliant> great idea, thanks
07:06 < Psi-Jack> Ajohn|afk: AFK nicks are bad, m'kay?
07:06 < domhnall> kc7aad_: you have lynis installed on Centos?
07:06 < Psi-Jack> lynis?
07:07 < domhnall> I've never got around to see how it's ranked...albeit a somewhat bs ranking scale. Suggestions are pretty solid for hardening though.
07:07 < kc7aad_> domhnall: No package lynis available.
07:07 < kc7aad_> so no!!
07:08 < kc7aad_> Firewalld is now running and i've added my ports.
07:08 < Psi-Jack> Well, I'm rather a bit impressed with the Solus build system they have going for them. I've already built two packages that I wanted and weren't in their own repo, and it was mostly easy as heck.
07:08 < domhnall> Psi-Jack: nice...well know packages or ...?
07:09 < Psi-Jack> Their own eopkg format.
07:09 < domhnall> I mean the packages...
07:09 < Psi-Jack> But every build is built in a clean chroot environment, helping with quality.
07:09 < Psi-Jack> Yes, so do I. :p
07:09 < Psi-Jack> Oh... You mean what /I/ made. No not really. ;)
07:09 < Psi-Jack> lrzsz and zssh. :)
07:09 < domhnall> oh...guess its a Solus lingo im not hip to.
07:10 < domhnall> oh okay
07:10 < Psi-Jack> zssh is a SSH/Telnet client that supports ZModem transfer protocol, and lrzsz provides that protocol. :)
07:11 < domhnall> stand-alones?
07:11 < Psi-Jack> Pretty much.
07:11 < domhnall> cool
07:11 < Psi-Jack> I was just impressed wiht how simple the process actually was, and, albeit slow, but thorough with the clean build environment.
07:12 < domhnall> Easier that writing ebuilds?
07:12 < Psi-Jack> It has to install ~147 packages every time you build a package.
07:12 < Psi-Jack> Way easier, actually.
07:12 < domhnall> heh
07:13 < Psi-Jack> Most of the real hard work is generally done for you, including build profiles.
07:13 < domhnall> so, you're gonna join them as a dev?
07:13 < domhnall> or..maintainer.
07:13 < Psi-Jack> Not sure, yet.
07:13 < Psi-Jack> Definitely /looks/ interesting, so far.
07:13 < Psi-Jack> Been doing all this in a VM so far.
07:14 < Psi-Jack> And cheating using Arch PKGBUILD's for a basis of build steps and patches. heh heh
07:14 < domhnall> You understand that stuff?
07:14 < Psi-Jack> Easily.
07:14 < domhnall> im still trying wrap my mind around how the whole PKGBUID works.
07:15 < domhnall> ...PKGBUILD
07:15 < Psi-Jack> I've done a LOT of custom packaging for various distros. CentOS/RHEL, Ubuntu, Debian.. Former maintainer of Gentoo ebuilds, AUR packages, etc.
07:15 < domhnall> Ah,..gotta love Gentoo
07:15 < Psi-Jack> I used to. Ages ago.
07:16 < Psi-Jack> I grew out of it. :p
07:16 < domhnall> understandable...
07:16 < domhnall> Likely, you were gone before I started my padawan process
07:17 < Psi-Jack> Hell, I've been around a loooooooong time.
07:17 < domhnall> I mean..from Gentoo
07:18 < domhnall> It's nothing like being a contributor to a distro. Best way to learn the ecosystem as a whole.
07:18 < Psi-Jack> And the politics they have...
07:18 < domhnall> For me anyway...you're likely a veteran in several areas I've never even read about.
07:19 < domhnall> Ah...I didn't pay that any mind. Never bothered me when I'd write a flawless GLSA and someone with rank would redo everything except the Summary.
07:19 < kc7aad_> mophed: OK.. Got it to stay persistant using firewalld
07:19 < kc7aad_> Thanks for your help and direction!
07:19 < mophed> hooray! glad you figured it out :)
07:20 < domhnall> kc7aad_: great job....and you didnt even need spoonfeed
07:20 < kc7aad_> domhnall: well not completely!! :)
07:20 < kc7aad_> Just had to have someone tape it to my hand!
07:20 < domhnall> nudges dont count as spooning.
07:21 < mophed> and now it sounds like you know how to use firewalld and iptables
07:22 < domhnall> might be stretch, but a likely better understanding
07:23 < domhnall> what im doing...I need to crack some boxes
07:23 < mophed> crack some boxes? that sounds interesting
07:24 < domhnall> frustrating for me at this point
07:24 < mophed> what are you tryin to do
07:25 < domhnall> I've learned that..as a 5+yr CLI-based distro user...I'm stronger an OS deployments and maintenance, than I am and breaking applications.
07:27 < domhnall> mophed: basically, CTFs and Pentesting sims in a controlled lab enviornment.
07:27 < domhnall> Forensics...im okay...CTF...I have no clue.
07:27 < mophed> can i be on the red team?
07:28 < domhnall> translation...link?
07:28 < mophed> pentesting would be the cooooooolest
07:28 < domhnall> ^hackthebox.eu^
07:28 < domhnall> that's the playground...
07:28 < mophed> i mean a job :)
07:29 < domhnall> er...CTFs, can't link the Forensics labs...university related.
07:30 < domhnall> oh...I dont know. If you enjoy finding problems and have a curious mindset and innovating methodology...sure why not.
07:32 < mophed> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaat-T71N3A
07:35 < domhnall> Let you in on a little secrete...I went to youtube on my own and added the v=Kaat-... manually.
07:35 < mophed> my bad
07:35 < pingfloyd> no offense, but terrible video
07:36 < domhnall> indeed
07:36 < pingfloyd> the guy just rambles on and puts memes up on a projector
07:37 < pingfloyd> he needs to take lessons from this guy on how to make a video right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75gBFiFtAb8
07:37 < domhnall> My fav defcon talk is the one about hijacking ABS.
07:37 < pingfloyd> defcon seems like a lot of pointless banter
07:37 < pingfloyd> like they tell you all the NSS stuff and ramble on about cats
07:38 < eraf> is /bin/mount and /proc/mounts,findmnt -D are all the same?
07:38 < domhnall> Which ironally, I've recently seen a local news story about it...and the research started about 3+years before that.
07:38 < mophed> it would be the coolest to go to defcon just to be able to meet people
07:38 < pingfloyd> mophed: not so sure about that
07:39 < mophed> for me at least
07:39 < pingfloyd> mophed: it's the same types of people that work in IT
07:39 < mophed> i work in IT
07:39 < pingfloyd> maybe you'll meet one or two cool people
07:39 < domhnall> My aunt, a Fed...gets free passes every year. Sad I can't get them.
07:39 < pingfloyd> the rest are a bunch of grown up children
07:39 < mophed> im the biggest grown up child
07:40 < pingfloyd> mophed: there's a good and bad kind of immature
07:40 < pingfloyd> IT people are usually the bad kind. (i.e., infantile and petty).
07:40 < mophed> true that
07:40 < mophed> hahaha
07:40 < pingfloyd> I love the good kind of immaturity
07:41 < mophed> im not that smart
07:41 < pingfloyd> that's more about social smarts
07:41 < pingfloyd> or street smarts
07:41 < pingfloyd> the nature of working in IT is to be isolated too much
07:42 < pingfloyd> so social skills tend to atrophy
07:42 < mophed> if you dont have a social life
07:42 < domhnall> You call it IT, I'm familiar with IS..but I suppose it's the same.
07:42 < pingfloyd> how do you have a social life when you're expected to work 80 hours a week?
07:43 < mophed> i dont have to do that :)
07:43 < domhnall> Then you dont deal with Networks?
07:43 < mophed> i work a nice 40 hour per week mostly remote
07:43 < pingfloyd> all because you're the only one (or one of the few) with enough brains to figure out some problem
07:44 < pingfloyd> you know you can't count on a suit with a certificate to crack it
07:44 < eraf> yesterday i have added a mount using sudo mount -t nfs 35.154.87.157:/home/centos /home/vagrant/ec2
07:44 < eraf> i have mistakenly terminated the ec2 instance on aws
07:44 < mophed> i barely graduated high school
07:44 < eraf> now if i type df -h
07:44 < pingfloyd> mophed: that's the other problem too--always being on call
07:44 < ziggylazer> 80 hours a week? I would never ever do that
07:44 < eraf> it takes a lot of time and the output of the command never shows up
07:45 < eraf> how do i delete that entry?
07:45 < pingfloyd> your employer acts like you're married to them or something
07:45 < pingfloyd> except they're worse than a wife
07:45 < ziggylazer> Its not good, regardless if you like what you do, to work 80 h
07:45 < mophed> thats a shame if you have to deal with that
07:45 < mophed> my job is awesome
07:45 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: that's the norm in the software industry
07:46 < ziggylazer> wow
07:46 < ziggylazer> had no idea actually. Is it that much?
07:46 < mophed> i love it. and the company is awesome too. i am not on call have a 401k and a month of PTO health insurance...
07:46 < mobyduck> If I have a home server running several VMs or containers, but I only have the one public IP, can I route traffic through the host to the specific VMs/containers based on destination URL? I know I can set up an apache front, but that only listens to specific ports.
07:46 < ziggylazer> Whats the salary?
07:46 < mophed> ive only been there a year
07:47 < mophed> and this is my first tech job
07:47 < pingfloyd> I hate working.  It's such a waste of time.
07:47 < mophed> 62k
07:47 < pingfloyd> and waste of life
07:47 < ziggylazer> I would not go out of bed for that sum
07:47 < mophed> that is the truth. i would rather be camping
07:47 < pingfloyd> camping would be fun
07:48 < ziggylazer> bad internet
07:48 < pingfloyd> hard part about camping is coming back to the grind
07:48 < domhnall> mobyduck: sure...'host-only'
07:48 < mophed> 100
07:49 < pingfloyd> and camping just reminds you that the way we all live was never how humans were ever meant to
07:49 < mobyduck> pingfloyd: "the norm in the software industry" is very different depending on country. I have 6 weeks vacation, can donate blood or go to doctor's appointments on work hours, work flexible hours and get double pay for every hour over 40h/week I work (needless to say they rarely let me work more). That's very close to standard here
07:49 < mobyduck> domhnall: elaborate?
07:49 < pingfloyd> we weren't meant to sit for hours buried in a computer screen or papers.  We're meant to be outside and moving around.
07:50 < ziggylazer> I so agree
07:50 < pingfloyd> mobyduck: ok, norm in the US
07:50 < ziggylazer> yet I spend the summer nights infront of a screen
07:50 < domhnall> set up the vm to use host-only connection. This allows you to have the one IP for the host and the vM gain another ip.
07:50 < ziggylazer> pingfloyd, that cant be good for productivity
07:50 < pingfloyd> mobyduck: it doesn't surprise me it's not as bad in other place
07:50 < pingfloyd> *places
07:51 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: all they care about is making more and more money
07:51 < mophed> pingfloyd: where are you from?
07:51 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: burning out talent is par for the course in their eyes
07:51 < mobyduck> I'm on call every five weeks, during very specific times. I get double pay for every hour I have to work during that, too.
07:51 < pingfloyd> mophed: US
07:52 < ziggylazer> Thats just sad...
07:52 < mobyduck> domhnall: in this case the server would be behind a router, and I only get one IP from my ISP :P
07:52 < mophed> you should get a cooler job
07:52 < mophed> mobyduck: use NAT
07:52 < domhnall> My pay-job is in an Aero-defense factory, dealing with rocket,jet,plain and machinary parts. no code involved.
07:52 < mophed> i think
07:53 < mophed> domhnall: ROCKETS!
07:53 < domhnall> mobyduck: which virtualization software are you using...? vmware, vbox?
07:53 < mobyduck> domhnall: KVM
07:54 < mobyduck> and docker containers
07:54 < domhnall> mophed: yep...precision rockets
07:54 < pingfloyd> better to do coding for your own projects.  Instead of burning your braincells making some entitled billionaire even richer.
07:54 < mophed> domhnall: keep your rockets out of my windows
07:54 < domhnall> mobyduck: ah, in that case i gotta pass on assistance.
07:54 < mobyduck> domhnall: does it make a difference? :)
07:54 < ziggylazer> I havent ruled out going criminal at old age
07:54 < domhnall> to me...yeah, I dont know much about kvm
07:55 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: crime pays
07:55 < ziggylazer> It does
07:55 < ziggylazer> And cyber pays very well
07:55 < mobyduck> domhnall: oh, I didn't even consider that the hypervisor might have tools available for this. I just assumed I'd have to do it in iptables or something else
07:55 < mophed> and dont we all love doing hood rat shit with our friends?
07:56 < pingfloyd> the reason crime is popular among the poor is they don't have much to lose.  So its inherent risk becomes less of a factor.
07:56 < domhnall> mobyduck: see, I dont even know about of kvm to even know if that comment is sarcastic or fact.
07:56 < ziggylazer> Yes. But that applys to all crime
07:56 < CrazyTux> hello, I installed Leap 15 and applied the updates and rebooted. Now, the laptop keyboard has stopped responding.
07:57 < CrazyTux> what could be the reason?
07:57 < mobyduck> domhnall: not being sarcastic. I hadn't even thought as far as assuming the hypervisor could do shit :)
07:57 < domhnall> CrazyTux: check the site again...
07:57 < ziggylazer> Cyber crime has a relative high barrier to enter. But very low risk
07:57 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: people get away more with white collar crime
07:57 < pingfloyd> ziggylazer: pretty much every company is shady
07:57 < CrazyTux> domhnall, which site?
07:57 < mophed> ziggylazer: i dont know abuot low risk
07:57 < mobyduck> CrazyTux: what is Leap 15?
07:58 < ziggylazer> mophed, If you know what you are doing. Then yes. Low risk
07:58 < CrazyTux> Opensuse Leap 15
07:58 < domhnall> kidding me right? the damn opensuse site....reference the hardware section.
07:58 < CrazyTux> domhnall, ok
07:58 < eraf> what is the difference between /bin/mount and /proc/mounts..
07:58 < bookworm> one is a binary
07:58 < domhnall> CrazyTux: or...try #opensuse.
07:59 < pingfloyd> eraf: path
07:59 < CrazyTux> domhnall, yes. I have asked for the solution there too.
07:59 < eraf> pingfloyd: path?
07:59 < domhnall> I've installed opensuse on twice...and not used it longer than a few weeks....so im not reliable to comment.
07:59 < pingfloyd> also, /bin/mount is the mount executable.  There's that.
07:59 < CrazyTux> waiting for the response still.
08:00 < CrazyTux> domhnall, ok
08:00 < domhnall> I love it though..
08:00 < CrazyTux> I never had such an issue with any other distro so far.
08:00 < ziggylazer> And I had to install the worst dist there is...
08:01 < domhnall> ziggylazer: Kali?
08:01 < mophed> CrazyTux: you installed this fresh? and it was working? then you ran update and it broke?
08:01 < ziggylazer> To prepare for cert studies
08:01 < ziggylazer> Yeah
08:01 < CrazyTux> mophed, yes.
08:01 < CrazyTux> exactly
08:01 < ziggylazer> Just so much easier to have that setup
08:01 < domhnall> ITs not the worst ever though...
08:01 < mobyduck> what makes Kali bad? Never used it
08:01 < pingfloyd> eraf: /proc/mounts is where the kernel stores references to your mountpoints
08:01 < pingfloyd> eraf: like type 'mount' at the prompt
08:01 < ziggylazer> Everything that makes every shitty debian freak shitty
08:02 < CrazyTux> mophed, usually we are supposed to update/upgrade after installing the os. aren't we?
08:02 < pingfloyd> eraf: lists all of your mountpoints (this is what is gathered from /proc/mounts)
08:02 < eraf> pingfloyd: it shows the mount points
08:02 < ziggylazer> But you have all the tools that you need for pen testing
08:02 < mophed> echo $LANG
08:02 < domhnall> Likely the fac that the kali-linux support channel isnt extremely active...too busy doing real pentesting
08:02 < pingfloyd> eraf: now compare the output to cat /proc/mounts
08:02 < eraf> mount | wc -l and cat /proc/mounts | wc -l
08:02 < eraf> the output is the same
08:02 < pingfloyd> eraf: practically the same aside from some formatting
08:02 < ziggylazer> Yeah thats what its ment for and that it does well
08:03 < domhnall> ziggylazer: I think BlackArch gives a bit more tools, some of which aren't in the kali repos.
08:03 < ziggylazer> domhnall, that might be the case.
08:03 < mophed> domhnall: the kali fille structure does not make sense
08:03 < ziggylazer> Still got fedora on the station
08:03 < eraf> aah ok i thought it ws different
08:03 < domhnall> you ahve plenty...(granted not used for oscp), ParrotOS, Pentoo, BlackArch...etc.
08:03 < ziggylazer> yeah
08:03 < pingfloyd> eraf: basically /proc/mounts is how the kernel interfaces with userland (mount for example).
08:04 < eraf> what about /etc/fstab?
08:04 < pingfloyd> what about it?
08:04 < domhnall> ziggylazer: in fact, I've just installed metasploit-5.0.0 on OpenBSD...works flawlessly.
08:04 < eraf> that also contains some partitions
08:04 < eraf> what that is for?
08:05 < ziggylazer> There is some viedos on youtube regarding linux filesystem. I recommend you take 15 min and watch it.
08:05 < bookworm> eraf: man fstab
08:05 < pingfloyd> eraf: those are the systems you can mount if you do mount -a
08:05 < ziggylazer> I had it on fedora and it worked well. Armitage did not
08:05 < pingfloyd> *file systems
08:06 < eraf> pingfloyd: did a sudo mount -a; but didnt see anything
08:06 < eraf> what would have happened
08:06 < pingfloyd> it would mount them, but they're already mounted
08:06 < ziggylazer> eraf, really hit up youtube for 15 min, Its important to know how to navigate in the beginning
08:06 < bookworm> ^
08:06 < pingfloyd> so for most, fstab just serves the purpose of mounting their filesystem during boot up
08:07 < pingfloyd> *filesystems
08:07 < ziggylazer> see anything in /etc is conf files.
08:07 < ziggylazer> Or the likes of it
08:07 < ziggylazer> anything in /bin are what?
08:07 < mophed> logs!
08:07 < ziggylazer> haha
08:08 < ziggylazer> Its just worth to get a grip of all the basics. Saves so much time down the line
08:08 < mophed> bin is too easy
08:08 < ziggylazer> https://linuxjourney.com/
08:08 < eraf> sure thanks pingfloyd
08:08 < ziggylazer> ./usr
08:09 < domhnall> ziggylazer: so kali is installed or you using live-usb-persistence?
08:09 < ziggylazer> Running a VM for now
08:09 < domhnall> ah, that's gonna be a pain.
08:09 < mophed> ziggylazer: what do you need it for?
08:09 < pingfloyd> eraf: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
08:09 < mophed> just install what you need local on your distro
08:09 < ziggylazer> Cert studies
08:09 < ziggylazer> Pain
08:09 < ziggylazer> Buggs
08:09 < ziggylazer> no
08:09 < mophed> depends on what you need
08:10 < alimiracle> hi I nede help can I switch back to /etc/network/interfaces in sentos7???
08:10 < domhnall> mophed: sounds good, but most tools needed for oscp are preinstalled. Time is everything.
08:10 < eraf> pingfloyd: what does mount -a command does?
08:10 < pingfloyd> eraf: see man mount
08:10 < ziggylazer> and before you do that
08:10 < ziggylazer> do man man
08:10 < pingfloyd> you just want him to do man man
08:11 < ziggylazer> :D
08:11 < alimiracle> hi I nede help can I switch back to /etc/network/interfaces in sentos7???
08:11 < ziggylazer> What have you done?
08:11 < pingfloyd> man 1 man
08:11 < mophed> domhnall: what about the blackman manager for arch?
08:12 < ziggylazer> its 2018 pingfloyd
08:12 < ziggylazer> We need to accept
08:12 < ziggylazer> ;)
08:12 < domhnall> mophed: can't say much about black arch, or blackman...never managed to get installed...even though i've used Arch.
08:12 < ziggylazer> mophed, in order to take OSCP you need to do a pure Kali course before that
08:13 < ziggylazer> So makes no sense to go and run anything else
08:13 < domhnall> ziggylazer: kali-unleashed?
08:13 < mophed> ziggylazer: do you. i have kali installed on a m.2 drive. but i still hate it
08:13 < ziggylazer> Yeah might be the name
08:14 < mophed> why cant they put all the packages in one normal place?
08:14 < hkr> > 'they'
08:14 < ziggylazer> and when are they going to fix apt
08:14 < mophed> kali
08:14 < ziggylazer> I dont know. I like Fedora
08:15 < domhnall> dunno what that means, i've had kali on mackbook and only issue I've seen was boot-up time from start to reaching desktop.
08:16 < ziggylazer> domhnall, I've had some nasty bugs actually
08:16 < mophed> domhnall: before it was a rolling distro all the packages were all in one folder and now they are alll over the place
08:16 < domhnall> mophed: nah, that was Backtrack, (same project...different distro-base) but I remember that.
08:16 < hkr> would now be the time to say arch masterrace or something similar
08:16 < mophed> same thing
08:16 < domhnall> mophed: the /opt/....
08:17 < domhnall> I remember
08:17 < eraf> pingfloyd: what is procfs?
08:17 < domhnall> mophed:  I think ParrotOS still does that..and they use a Debian-base.
08:17 < ziggylazer> eraf,
08:17 < ziggylazer> you need to RTFM
08:19 < domhnall> ziggylazer: Those 'bugs'/issues, were they manifest in VM?
08:19 < razwelles> Hey, I'm trying to understand the underpinnings of how linux puts a system on sleep. I've followed up to s2ram, and /sys/power/state, but I'm trying to find source code and I don't know where to go from there.
08:20 < ziggylazer> domhnall, I dont think it is a result of VM but It might be
08:20 < luke-jr> razwelles: kernel.org
08:20 < domhnall> eh, not much context other than what you said...
08:21 < domhnall> makes no sense to have a distro with all its tools installed and run it in vm.
08:21 < ziggylazer> domhnall, I've had issues with drivers. I had issues with applications that ran just fine on Deb having issues with Kali
08:21 < ziggylazer> domhnall, u are right
08:21 < domhnall> unless...i7 8th gen
08:22 < ziggylazer> i7 7 gen
08:22 < luke-jr> domhnall: boo Intel
08:22 < domhnall> hehe
08:22 < ziggylazer> But, I need a special SATA connector
08:22 < luke-jr> my motherboard has OCuLink wired wrong, so I need a special connector to use that :/
08:22 < ziggylazer> And that is making its way from the US to Sweden as we speak
08:23 < ziggylazer> And until Autodesk develops packs for Linux it seems like I need a copy of Windows now and again
08:25 < ziggylazer> pingfloyd, what do you do for a living?
08:28 < mophed> ziggylazer: what do you do for a living?
08:28 < domhnall> ziggylazer: you already have os-ID or getting ready?
08:28 < ziggylazer> Banker in rehab.
08:28 < ziggylazer> domhnall, getting ready
08:29 < domhnall> cool
08:29 < ziggylazer> I got an MBA. Took CCNA a few months back
08:29 < ziggylazer> CCNP as soon as I can. And OSCP
08:29 < mophed> what do you want to do?
08:30 < eraf> ziggylazer: where can i find info abt no_root_squash,all_squash,insecure., etc
08:30 < domhnall> aww, on sec+, linux+?
08:30 < eraf> man exports doesnt seem to have the info about the args that can be passed
08:30 < domhnall> eraf: might want to look up what the swash is for..
08:31 < domhnall> ugh...im sleepy. squash
08:31 < ziggylazer> mophed, dream gig would be in the intel community
08:31 < domhnall> ziggylazer: Intel Intel or Intellegence?
08:31 < ziggylazer> eraf, look. You cant ask every question without atleast trying to google it
08:32 < ziggylazer> intelligence
08:32 < domhnall> ah...
08:32 < eraf> sure ziggylazer tried that
08:32 < mophed> spy stuff
08:32 < eraf> also man'd it
08:32 < ziggylazer> eraf, look at the statement
08:32 < ziggylazer> Read it
08:33 < ziggylazer> Its hard not to understand it
08:33 < ziggylazer> And google would be the place
08:34 < notmike> jQuery
08:34 < ziggylazer> Just a very interesting field. And It will grow even bigger
08:34 < han-solo> hey guys
08:35 < ziggylazer> hi
08:35 < han-solo> How could one just get only the raw binary data from a pcap ?
08:35 < han-solo> i want to use that binary string, and later would sent using a socket to check something
08:36 < ziggylazer> Cant you convert it?
08:36 < ziggylazer> Oh no
08:36 < ziggylazer> Or is it a raw pcap?
08:37 < ziggylazer> you said binary so I got confused
08:50 < domhnall> han-solo: im thinking dumpcap...but dont know for sure. if not try tcpdump
08:52 < han-solo> domhnall: i want to get that raw binary data so that i can put it on a string
08:57 < domhnall> I get that...its not uncommon. tcpick (or someting) comes with tcpdump.
09:00 < domhnall> eh, quick search, got this: https://serverfault.com/questions/38626/how-can-i-read-pcap-files-in-a-friendly-format (just now)
09:06 < domhnall> ok, im going to bed...or try to.
09:14 < Dr_Coke> Good Moaning
09:21 < ansraliant> good morning sir, have you already drink your morning coffee?
09:25 < pingfloyd> only been morning for 24 minutes
09:25 < Martiini> are there any new linux distros
09:25 < pingfloyd> Martiini: no
09:26 < Martiini> .. but, maybe there is
09:27 < mophed> Martiini: define new?
09:28 < Martiini> ..like.. some new linux distro that's faster, never breaks, has million packages .. etc
09:29 < mophed> so the oldest then
09:30 < revel> A new one that has millions of working packages and never breaks...?
09:31 < revel> Martiini: Do you want a unicorn as well? : D
09:31 < pingfloyd> new breaks a lot
09:31 < pingfloyd> and new rarely has millions of packages
09:31 < Martiini> yes, osx unicorn
09:32 < pingfloyd> macos has millions of packages?!
09:32 < lilltiger_> never breaks?
09:32 < Martiini> one it will
09:32 < lilltiger_> and new?
09:32 < morf> pls staph
09:32 < revel> It's a Linux distro now? :O
09:32 < pingfloyd> so really you want everything the opposite of what you said?
09:32 < Martiini> aliens will make one for the AI supercomputer 9001
09:32 < pingfloyd> so old, breaks a lot, have very few packages...
09:33 < mophed> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
09:33 < mophed> use that
09:33 < pingfloyd> I was thinking of that too!
09:33 < pingfloyd> it fits what I just said
09:33 < Martiini> exherbo .. but it didnt install
09:33 < pingfloyd> has pretty much no packages, is old, and breaks a lot
09:34 < pingfloyd> could have a lot of packages if you have millions of hours of free time though
09:34 < mophed> pingfloyd: and lets not forget about time spent compiling :)
09:34 < Triffid_Hunter> mophed: as a gentoo user, that's no problem :P
09:35 < pingfloyd> I don't think anyone has millions of packages really
09:35 < pingfloyd> hundreds of thousands sure
09:35 < revel> It has as many packages as you're willing to install (though I guess they're not really packages until you write a package manager), it's mere seconds old after you start messing with it and it breaks as often as you break it (LFS)
09:35 < pingfloyd> revel: yeah, "millions of hours"
09:36 < revel> lol
09:36 < Lope> are there any 802.11ad (yes 60ghz) wifi adapters supported in linux? https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=802.11ad
09:36 < pingfloyd> or millions of people with an hour of free time
09:36 < revel> Package splitting is a great way of inflating package size.
09:36 < pingfloyd> split ALL the packages!
09:37 < revel> package{,-dev,-doc,-idklol}
09:37 < mophed> Lope: why would they not be supported?
09:37 < revel> And all the versions of the package that exist as well.
09:37 < pingfloyd> and tons of BSD ports
09:38 < pingfloyd> if someone could pull all of that off, it would be year of the linux desktop
09:39 < lilltiger_> There will be no year of "linux desktop" untill there actually is a decent DE for linux :/
09:39 < pingfloyd> this is the century of the linux desktop
09:39 < pingfloyd> that's even better
09:40 < Martiini> yes, all old package versions, I want origianl old skype legacy, but it's broken in Arch
09:40 < pingfloyd> probably by 2100 proprietary software will be something we look back at and laugh about.
09:41 < Martiini> Microsoft destroyed Skype
09:41 < pingfloyd> say things like, "those silly, greedy barbarians"
09:41 < Martiini> Microsoft destroyed Nokia Symbian too
09:41 < lilltiger_> pingfloyd: 2100 is too close for that
09:41 < pingfloyd> skype always sucked
09:42 < lilltiger_> Microsoft destroyed Ericsson before they destroyed Nokia
09:42 < Aph3x-WL> the year of the linux desktop was 1994, you're all late
09:42 < revel> Aph3x-WL: There was only one? :<
09:42 < lilltiger_> CDE?
09:42 < lilltiger_> or what it was called, all one had was a calculator and a clock
09:43 < lilltiger_> and it lookt like a 4bit version of win 2
09:43 < pingfloyd> been year of the linux desktop since X was ported to it
09:43 < revel> Yes, CDE.
09:43 < Lope> mophed: because it's quite new tech?
09:43 < pingfloyd> and that year will turn into decades
09:44 < revel> Pretty sure it already has.
09:44 < pingfloyd> only thing that stands a chance is maybe BSD if they pull of with a miracle
09:44 < Lope> are we ranting about MS buying and wrecking smaller companies?
09:44 < Lope> Google does the same thing.
09:44 < pingfloyd> but really, their license will always keep them stuck as Apple's slave assistant
09:44 < lilltiger_> I am still waiting for a good DE to linux.. I liked KDE 3.x, and not that found of KDE 5.x but still better then the gtk ones.
09:45 < pingfloyd> Lope: who is worse? Apple, MS, Oracle, or Google?
09:45 < lilltiger_> Lope: well "smaller" is a relative term.. both Nokia and Ericsson was gigant companies that M$ wrecked :D
09:46 < Lope> I don't know anything about apple buying companies, but they're terrible in terms of how they treat their customers and design their software/hardware. It's all fake profiteering and mind-fuckery.
09:46 < pingfloyd> they're all $HOME wreckers
09:46 < Lope> Apple is also terrible in terms of patents.
09:46 < lilltiger_> Lope: and maybe we should add Adobe to that group of terrible companies
09:47 < Lope> Well, whatyugonnado.
09:47 < pingfloyd> slowly the world will become more aware of free software and none of them will matter much anymore
09:47 < Lope> Just move on with life. Move your github stuff to gitlab.
09:47 < pingfloyd> yep
09:48 < pingfloyd> github is the new sourceforge
09:48 < Lope> The solution is if we just decide fuck MS, Apple, Google etc. And just boycott their products
09:48 < lilltiger_> honestly, M$ might not ruin github, depends on what team that decides it's faith
09:48 < pingfloyd> and if you use google code, then go to hell.
09:48 < Lope> It'll become counter productive to buy and wreck stuff, so they'll stop doing it.
09:48 < nothos> pingfloyd Bit extreme? Microsoft are crap, but I highly doubt they'll be embedding malware into releases on github
09:48 < pingfloyd> nothos: it's about support
09:49 < pingfloyd> nothos: if you keep your project on github you are now supporting microsoft
09:49 < pingfloyd> churning them dollars
09:49 < Lope> We complain about the way the big companies operate but things have never been better for open source, actually.
09:49 < pingfloyd> would you rather do that for someone that respects users?
09:49 < Lope> So things will keep improving.
09:49 < pingfloyd> *wouldn't
09:49 < nothos> pingfloyd Couldn't you argue that by boycotting any products MS have a hand on and that by using those products you'd have to stop using linux itself?
09:50 < nothos> (Playing devils advocate here)
09:50 < pingfloyd> how?
09:50 < pingfloyd> just because Canonical are sellouts?
09:50 < Lope> nothos: sure, just fork linux if necessary.
09:50 < pingfloyd> boycott Canonical
09:51 < Lope> What the big companies have going for them is they're organized and have money. That allows them to gain control of stuff.
09:51 < Lope> For example, look at systemd.
09:51 < nothos> pingfloyd Well they are one of the largest single contributors to the kernel
09:51 < Lope> It just took over everything.
09:51 < pingfloyd> and that's exactly what they do--gain control
09:51 < pingfloyd> and that control turns into monopoly if left unchecked
09:52 < Lope> Eventually we'll all be using microsoft-google-apple nix.
09:52 < Lope> kidding.
09:52 < fxber> fedora?
09:52 < nothos> Don't worry, HURD will be ready any day now
09:52 < Lope> But I did forsee the possibility where systemd becomes a distro, then it's the only distro.
09:52 < pingfloyd> nothos: would it be right for say Linus to refuse say good code (that will be under the GPL) contributions because it was from say Microsoft?
09:52 < Lope> Then it's just systemd and the linux kernel.
09:53 < pingfloyd> now if Microsoft bought the linux kernel, it would be a totally different story.
09:53 < pingfloyd> or if Google did, etc.
09:53 < pingfloyd> I'd probably move to BSD at that point
09:53 < Lope> They can't buy the linux kernel.
09:53 < pingfloyd> I know
09:53 < nothos> pingfloyd I'd say he'd have the right ideologically
09:53 < pingfloyd> that's why code submission isn't an issue
09:53 < nothos> But he'd also be dumb to
09:54 < lilltiger_> Isent it like IBM that "controlls" the kernel now, as Linux isent even a big contributor any longer
09:54 < pingfloyd> if anything, they should give something back, for all of the code they've stolen over the years.
09:54 < Lope> Microsoft once said open source is cancer and they must destroy it. Now MS are becoming the cancer of open source.
09:54 < Lope> They infect open source and destroy it from the inside.
09:54 < pingfloyd> yep
09:55 < lilltiger_> By releasing a quite good IDE? ;D
09:55 < pingfloyd> that's examples of why Stallman has such an issue with using the term "open source" instead of "free software"
09:56 < pingfloyd> the whole "open source" buzzword came about as a means to get investors that are philistines.
09:56 < Lope> Well previously linux kernel didn't even exist. So don't worry, at some point there might be multiple viable kernels similar to linux.
09:56 < pingfloyd> this was around the time that mozilla emerged.
09:56 < Lope> What the big companies can't do is they can't stop all open source. They don't have the resources.
09:56 < Lope> So the way to prevent big companies from destroying open source is for it to be diversified.
09:57 < Lope> So in fact it's a good thing MS are wrecking github. It was too centralized.
09:57 < Lope> It's dumb for the open source community to centralize the fruits of their efforts into centralized companies that can be wrecked.
09:58 < V7> Hey all
09:58 < V7> Can't install 16.04.4 on old system
09:58 < Sveta> Lope: their other mistake was also proprietary backend
09:58 < Lope> That's why I've never particularly liked github. It's too big.
09:58 < V7> Ubuntu Server ^
09:58 < pingfloyd> Lope: it's like putting chat on the web instead staying with irc.
09:58 < Sveta> Lope: take a look at https://github.com/git-federation/gitpub
09:59 < V7> When trying to boot from a CD it gives: Loading bootlogo...; graphics initialization failed; Error setting up gfxboot; boot:
09:59 < Lope> I feel dirty clicking on github links now.
09:59 < pingfloyd> no doubt
09:59 < fxber> look this: https://wx2.sinaimg.cn/mw690/e86ec677ly1fs2e9jmspqg20dw099mz9.gif
09:59 < lilltiger_> V7: ask in #ubuntu oer what thire channel is called
09:59 < V7> When I'm typing a help in "boot:" prompt it gives the same
09:59 < pingfloyd> especially finding out their backend is proprietary. What a bunch of frauds.
09:59 < V7> Roger than
09:59 < V7> Thank you
10:00 < nkz> Hey, I am using xubuntu. Why is delete in linux so painfully slow? Deleting one small pdf from desktop freezes the pc for good 30 seconds
10:00 < Lope> what's also dumb is so many open source people using AWS, considering who the investors are etc.
10:00 < Lope> nkz: it's not the software, it's your computer.
10:01 < Lope> nkz: linux is not slow at all, it's much faster than windows/apple.
10:01 < fxber> I like Gnome3 very much
10:01 < lilltiger_> Lope: why rely, Amazon sure is a big best, but have they done anything bad to the *nix comunity?
10:02 < mophed> i3 is my faaaaavorite
10:02 < jsync> Is anybody familiar with Dialog coding?
10:02 < nkz> I know, I am using a dual boot. I am specifically asking about delete. Deleting first file takes so long no matter how small it is. Deleting files after that is normal
10:02 < nothos> Lope I've always seen it as boiling down to ideologically purity vs pragmaticism
10:02 < nothos> Obvs I'd love to be able to use a 100% libre system backed only by those who want to protect our freedoms
10:02 < nothos> But at the same time that isn't *really* possible
10:02 < Lope> lilltiger_: what they've done bad was not my point. My point was the investors objectives oppose the objectives of freedom, transparency and openness.
10:03 < lilltiger_> Lope: ahh ok
10:03 < Lope> if someone's objectives are opposed to yours, eventually it'll come out where they'll (or will be discovered that they've already done) something you find horrible.
10:05 < Lope> wow, the linux kernel gained support for 802.11ad in 3.8.
10:07 < fxber> Lope: which version? 4.16?
10:08 < Lope> 3.8... ?
10:08 < fxber> oh!ok
10:08 < Lope> what is 4.16?
10:08 < Tuxand> Lope: current stable from upstream
10:08 < Lope> I thought maybe a sub version of 802.11ad. nvm
10:09 < Lope> I see wil6210 is supported by linux kernel 3.8 but I can't find it on aliexpress or amazon https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/wil6210
10:10 < Lope> Oh, i see 6210 is the name of the driver, not a device.
10:15 < MrElendig> buying network cards from ali is not always the smartest thing to do either
10:16 < MrElendig> (and often not any cheaper)
10:16 < revel> I thought 4.17 got marked as stable.
10:16 < MrElendig> it is
10:16 < MrElendig> (and it is up to .1 now)
10:18 < MrElendig> you can pick up a qca9005 card for 13usd from more serious sellers than those on ali
10:19 < fxber> /
10:22 < MrElendig> newer 6 variant might be easier to find
10:50 < Lope> MrElendig: have you tried any 60ghz stuff yet?
10:50 < Lope> MrElendig: when I search for QCA9005 (linux|ubuntu|debian) I don't find anyone successfully using this stuff.
10:51 < MrElendig> Lope: generally a waste of time
10:52 < MrElendig> you basically must have LoS
10:52 < Lope> MrElendig: that's ok
10:52 < MrElendig> it can handle a lot more clients at a time, but the range sort of defeats that
10:54 < Lope> alternatively I'd like to run a 5.8ghz only network. is that possible?
10:54 < Lope> I believe 5.8ghz only is 802.a?
10:54 < Lope> 802.11a I mean.
10:56 < MrElendig> 5.8 can be a bit more troublesome due to other use
10:58 < nai> hi, quick question: from what point exactly in the boot process can we consider that we are "out" of the initramfs process (if at all) ? is it when the root filesystem is mounted?
11:00 < Lope> MrElendig: what do you mean by "other use"?
11:01 < MrElendig> Lope: radars, sensors, stuff™
11:02 < MrElendig> it is a bit more congested than 5.1-5.4
11:04 < MrElendig> also in europe you are limited to 25mW iirc
11:05 < Lope> do common smartphones support 5.8ghz?
11:05 < MrElendig> in channel 149-165
11:05 < MrElendig> if I remember my list right
11:05 < Lope> is there a difference in standard between 5.1-5.4 and 5.8ghz?
11:05 < MrElendig> hmm maybe channel 150+
11:05 < Lope> my smartphone works on 5ghz but doesn't say the exact frequency
11:05 < MrElendig> hm yep, remembered right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#5_GHz_(802.11a/h/j/n/ac/ax)
11:06 < MrElendig> Lope: phones varies *a lot*
11:06 < MrElendig> many only support the lower channels innthe 5GHz band
11:08 < Lope> I can't seem to find any hardware that runs in sub ghz bands, like 802.11ah or 802.11af
11:08 < Lope> on amazon/aliexpress anyway.
11:08 < pascalou> hi
11:09 < pascalou> does anyone here knows nfs well ?
11:09 < pascalou> i got issues where it takes 1 min to delete some files
11:11 < MrElendig> Lope: most of those bands have been gobbled up
11:11 < Lope> MrElendig: gobbled by whom?
11:12 < MrElendig> varies, often cellphone use
11:12 < Copenhagen_Bram> Hello
11:13 < Sveta> hi Copenhagen_Bram :)
11:13 < Copenhagen_Bram> Is there free software for determining what language a phrase is in?
11:13 < MrElendig> eg the 900MHz ism band is now only "free" in the south/north americas
11:13 < MrElendig> it's not available in europe
11:14 < Lope> 802.11ay is 30Gbps
11:14 < MrElendig> there is some hardware operating in the 13.5 and 27mhz bands
11:14 < Lope> Someone had a project going where he tried to connect 2 computers together with cheap 802.11ad cards as an alternative to buying expensive multi gigabit ethernet adapters.
11:15 < Lope> But he didn't succeed or write about such success.
11:15 < Lope> MrElendig: wow, but 13 or 27mhz has to be very slow.
11:15 < MrElendig> wigi that beats 1gbit wired is not cheap
11:16 < MrElendig> not that cheap*
11:16 < MrElendig> needs 16/64quam
11:16 < g105b> Hi everyone, please could someone help me connect with SSH? I have password auth turned off, so I've put my pub key in the authorized_keys file and I can connect to that user, however if I put the pub key into another user's authorized_keys file and try to connect I get Permission Denied (publickey). If I turn off StrictModes in sshd_config, that allows me to log in, but I would like to understand what I need to change permissions-wise 
11:16 < MrElendig> qam*
11:16 < MrElendig> and good antennas
11:20 < Lope> MrElendig: I've got a dlink appliance router that can run a 5ghz network but it's in conjunction with 2.4ghz
11:20 < Lope> MrElendig: I want to run a wifi network that's only >5ghz, is that possible?
11:20 < MrElendig> that is normal
11:20 < MrElendig> on some you can disable the 2.4GHz radio
11:21 < Lope> MrElendig: I figure I'll just make an AP with hostapd
11:21 < MrElendig> why would you want to though? you often get better performance by keeping the 2.4 band too
11:21 < Lope> What kind of wireless USB device do I need to buy?
11:21 < Lope> MrElendig: I don't want 2.4ghz due to health risks
11:22 < Lope> 2.4ghz is most absorbable by water and humans are mostly water.
11:22 < searedvandal> g105b, check the permissions of .ssh and .ssh/authorized keys
11:22 < MrElendig> Lope: bs
11:22 < MrElendig> Lope: stop reading conspiracy sites
11:22 < Lope> MrElendig: your opinions aside, is it possible to run wifi that's only >5ghz?
11:22 < MrElendig> seriously, those claims are pure bs
11:23 < MrElendig> just the physics of it is just insane
11:23 < revel> Lope: Got any nice lil' links to back your claims?
11:23 < MrElendig> even if you hold around the antenna there will basically be no effect on your body at all
11:23 < MrElendig> and remember, power decreases *drasticly* with distance
11:24 < searedvandal> Lope, disable 2.4ghz on your router/ap ?
11:24 < Lope> revel: these are not my claims. I said "health risks"
11:24 < MrElendig> there are other things you should be way more worried about, that you can actually easily make a real difference with
11:24 < MrElendig> Lope: there are no health risks
11:25 < revel> Does "risk" mean "it might be bullshit, but it could be true" to you...?
11:25 < MrElendig> Lope: unless you start to dump out a few kW of energy
11:25 < Lope> World Health Organization panel of 31 scientists concerned that mobile phones may cause cancer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ApJFBygwoI
11:25 < Lope> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwyDCHf5iCY
11:25 < Lope> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0NEaPTu9oI
11:25 < revel> If it's the WHO, then surely you've got more than just YouTube links.
11:25 < Armand> Bullshit, but... ehh
11:25 < MrElendig> Lope: "scientists" also claim that the earth is flat and that homeopathy works
11:25 < Armand> ^
11:25 < Armand> pwnt
11:25 < Lope> http://www.who.int/peh-emf/meetings/en/2Rubtsova.pdf
11:26 < Lope> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMMEQNnSZIo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbCwdjlInqo
11:26 < Lope> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891061815000599
11:26 < revel> I don't think 2.4GHz classifies as eLF.
11:26 < MrElendig> Lope: also, you might want to go to the actual source
11:26 < Lope> http://becknatmed.com/doc/Health_effects_of_living_near_cell_tower.pdf
11:26 < revel> s/eLF/ELF/
11:26 < mophed> they are controlling us with vaccines
11:26  * Armand stabs mophed 
11:26 < nothos> Lope Literally says in that document 'Lack of pathological alterations in a state of health;'
11:27 < Lope> PhD scientist hired by electrical company and Motorola. They tried to silence him after he got results. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28FtRM4Xw9U
11:27 < Lope> https://sites.google.com/site/nationalenvironmentsociety/cell-phone-tower-health-effects
11:27 < MrElendig> Lope: is there a psycological effect? yes, is there an actual physical effect? no
11:27 < dgurney> I DON'T LIKE THEM PUTTING CHEMICALS IN THE WATER THAT TURN THE FREAKING FROGS GAY
11:27 < Armand> Hahahahaaa!
11:27 < Armand> dgurney+++++++++++++++++++
11:27 < Disconsented> frogs were already gay
11:27 < nothos> Lope Also, I'm sorry I think trying to link the dangers of a giant mobile phone mast with a 2.4Ghz wifi router is incredibly intellectually dishonest
11:28 < Armand> Lope: Nice propaganda tho... well played.
11:29 < MrElendig> Lope: if there was a link it would have shown up in those people who actually work on cellphone/etc networks day in day out
11:29 < revel> Can't seem to read the Sciencedirect one, so, can't know if it's 300MHz, 2.4GHz or 300GHz.
11:29 < MrElendig> Lope: sidenote: I've climbed towers where you would literally be fried if the power was on
11:30 < MrElendig> a slight difference in output power though
11:30 < Lope> Smoking was recommended by doctors for about 50 years. People were ridiculed for suggesting that there were health risks. Now yes-men like you say "duh, any dumbass knows smoking causes cancer" because it's socially acceptable to say it now. Same thing is happening for wifi.
11:30 < nothos> MrElendig Rather you than me :D
11:30 < revel> A home router isn't exactly the same as a high-power radar.
11:30 < MrElendig> multiple 100kW transmitters :p
11:30 < oneko> Okay, I frequently hang out around here so --> I posted this https://www.reddit.com/r/VPN/comments/8r90ka/rapidseedbox_harassing_me_to_develop_a_community/ but I'm not sure that I have described the technical parts very well, any input would be appreciated
11:30 < nothos> MrElendig Though admittedly mostly coz of those videos of crazy Russian mateys shooting up them with no harnesses
11:31 < djph> oneko: ... what ... ?
11:31 < jubalh> anybody has an idea what can be a reason when neither nitrogen nor feh can set a wallpaper? I'm running LXQt, disabled pcmanfm-qt to handle the desktop, so it should work. but doesnt. but when i log off, i see the wallpaper for a short second. so it seems like still something is overlaying it
11:31 < Lope> Yeah, there's no link to smoking cigarettes and cancer either, right? Brands of cigarettes recommended by doctors.
11:31 < MrElendig> Lope: there is a wast difference in the data
11:31 < nothos> Having your brain melt in your skull from a high intensity burst of ionising radiation would at least provide a good story for folks
11:32 < Lope> MrElendig: smoking doesn't make you die instantly, and neither does wifi.
11:32 < djph> nothos: good thing microwave (i.e. 2.4 / 5 GHz, others) is non-ionizing then, innit?
11:32 < oneko> djph: Large scale system admin is not something I have done before but I know I can deploy on multiple servers with ansible
11:32 < MrElendig> nothos: One of my teachers actually had a nice burn from a RF transmitter
11:32 < oneko> djph: Could I be wrong in that regard ?
11:32 < MrElendig> nothos: nice white blob on his arm
11:32 < nothos> djph Given how close my router is to my PC and how often I spend on that PC, yeah, I'm pretty glad on that :D
11:32 < Lope> anyway, your limited viewpoint aside, is it possible to run a wifi network that's only >5ghz?
11:32 < djph> oneko: I mean, I guess you can.  I'm not really sure what your question really is.
11:33 < revel> Lope: Yes.
11:33 < dgurney> Lope, you were already told that it is by disabling the 2.4GHz radio (if such option is available in your ap/router)
11:33 < djph> Lope: sure, most "5 GHz" wifi is all over the place between 5 and 6 GHz.
11:33 < revel> ^
11:33 < searedvandal> Lope, http://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs304/en/ & http://www.who.int/en/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/electromagnetic-fields-and-public-health-mobile-phones
11:33 < catphish> are there any modern filesystems that allow a filesystem that is mounted read-write in one place to be mounted read-only elsewhere?
11:33 < MrElendig> nothos: that was from a 20kW K band radar though
11:33 < revel> catphish: You could just as well use `mount --bind`, can't you?
11:34 < revel> Or, wait, read-only.
11:34 < nothos> MrElendig Yeah, I assumed it was some sort of insanely power transmitter
11:34 < revel> Haven't tried that combo.
11:34 < catphish> revel: sorry, i mean on different hosts
11:34 < MrElendig> nothos: turns out that putting your arm on the horn is a bad idea :p
11:34 < revel> NFS?
11:34 < MrElendig> 20kW isn't really insanely power
11:34 < nothos> MrElendig And this is exactly why I'm happy to leave mucking with these sort of things to the professionals
11:34 < BCMM> catphish: i think some of the unionfs-style thingies could be (ab)used to achieve that effect
11:34 < djph> MrElendig: who'd have guessed? :)
11:34 < catphish> revel: not really a filesystem, but that's the backup option
11:34 < revel> Pretty sure you can't regularly mount a filesystem on multiple hosts the same way you'd mount it directly on the host.
11:34 < nothos> MrElendig It is compared to a home router though, and those already cause cancer :O
11:35 < BCMM> (names are too similar, i always forget which one is modern... aufs?)
11:35 < MrElendig> in his case it was the interlock that had failed
11:35 < djph> nothos: yeah, but 20 kW -- that's 500 times more powerful than wifi is allowed to be (least here in the US)
11:35 < MrElendig> + procedures that was not being followed because it was in the middle of the night out in a storm
11:35 < catphish> well most filesystems cache ad lock metadata in memory, so you can't mount them in multiple places, but i wondered if any particular filesystems would allow this with the condition that only one mount was writeable
11:36 < nothos> I was very bad at physics at school, but I know enough to know that you need to be very cautious with those sorts of radiation and such
11:36 < nothos> So fair play to the folks who do it :D
11:36 < oneko> My question is, djph, since I can deploy and manage my own three servers using ansible, sometimes I get errors which I probably eventually fix, is this what happens in a commercial setup ?
11:36 < MrElendig> sidenote: 20kW sounds higher than it is, since it is not continious power but pulsed
11:36 < djph> oneko: most likely (although, usually the "errors" are fixed a little more frequently than "when I get around to it")
11:36 < BCMM> catphish: ah, when you say "different hosts", what do you mean by "mount" and "filesystem" here? are we talking about, like, nfs, cifs, etc? or about networked block devices?
11:37 < djph> MrElendig: yeah, but still, catching a 20kW pulse is catching a 20 kW pulse.
11:37 < catphish> BCMM: i mean one physical block device containing a filesystem being mounted on multiple hosts
11:37 < nothos> MrElendig So basically: If you like having working cells, be careful?
11:38 < BCMM> catphish: i mean, the hosts are accessing it at the block layer? no can do
11:38 < catphish> ie a SAN LAN shared among multiple hosts
11:38 < BCMM> catphish: afaik there are no filesystems that are OK with the data on-disk being changing without their knowledge
11:38 < demonxian3> well
11:38 < BCMM> ^changed
11:38 < Lope> dgurney: well my router doesn't have the option of disabling 2.4ghz, that's why I'm asking, I want to know what wifi standards use >5ghz exclusively
11:38 < nothos> BCMM glusterfs and cephfs are a bit more tolerant of it
11:39 < demonxian3> nb-iot
11:39 < catphish> BCMM: that was my assumption too, but a customer just asked me for it, so wondered if there might be a filesystem or a mount option that allowed it
11:39 < nothos> But I imagine you mean local FS rather than fancy distributed things
11:39 < oneko> Well, djph, I guess so too but I also guess that a lot of errors/problems could be avoided with better planning, research and probably advice from experienced folks
11:40 < BCMM> catphish: you need to use *something* other than a plain old filesystem
11:40 < djph> Lope: 802.11a or 802.11ac are the only two wifi standards that are "5 GHz only".
11:40 < BCMM> catphish: either a proper network protocol like nfs or a "fancy distributed thing" like nothos mentioned (about which i know very little)
11:41 < catphish> yeah, the more important requirement is performance on the primary writeable host though, so clustered filesystems aren't going to work, i'll probably just stick with nfs
11:41 < nothos> BCMM I am the worst person to quote on these things as you have just demonstrated :D
11:41 < djph> Lope: 802.11a is roughly equivalent to 802.11g (IIRC ... )
11:41 < jubalh> which is a nice tiling wm with also good floating support?
11:42 < BCMM> catphish: could the primary connect directly to the block device, and serve NFS itself?
11:42 < BCMM> catphish: sounds like that would be optimal for that one machine's storage performance (but i don't know much about SAN either)
11:42 < catphish> BCMM: yes, that's what i'll probably end up doing
11:43 < Lope> djph: 802.11a is roughly equivalent to 802.11g in what respect?
11:43 < oneko> jubalh: i3 is a really decent window manager with floating support
11:43 < djph> Lope: as I recall, transmission encoding / phy rates / etc.  differnce being the carrier frequency (2.4 vs. 5 GHz)
11:44 < djph> Lope: but no one uses 802.11a
11:44 < BCMM> catphish: hmm, if performance *really* didn't matter... i wonder what how a read-only synchronous mount would fare...
11:44 < searedvandal> Lope, examples of 5GHz only product are Linksys WUMC710 & Edimax EW-7711ULC
11:44 < BCMM> catphish: i feel like there'd still be a sort of race condition where there was a small chance of reading the disk while it was in an inconsistent state, though
11:45 < catphish> BCMM: the use case is that one host connected to a SAN is constantly writing backups to the disk, the customer asked if people wanting to restore those backups could connect to the same LUN read-only and do so
11:45 < djph> Lope: (note that I could be wildly mis-remembering, and 802.11a is the 5GHz variant of 802.11b)
11:45 < nothos> catphish Do they need disk level access for that?
11:45 < catphish> BCMM: yeah, even with sync reads you wouldn't have locking, so it's possible something would read badly if it was mid-write
11:45 < nothos> Why not wrap something in rsync for pulling data off remotely?
11:45 < catphish> nothos: just extra load on the same host
11:46 < catphish> but that's probably what's going to happen
11:46 < nothos> True, but it sounds like you're going to be trading resource usage with extra complexity
11:46 < catphish> what i'll do instead is just have more smaller LUNs instead and spread the load across more hosts that way
11:46 < nothos> Especially given that doing weird disk stuff can tank performance worse
11:46 < nothos> Man I cannot English today, hope I'm making sense
11:46 < Lope> djph: 802.11ac is probably the best choice then
11:47 < catphish> reading and writing the same LUN is hardly weird disk stuff, but sure
11:47 < catphish> thanks
11:48 < nothos> catphish Yeah, but devil's in the details. I'll admit I'm not sort of storage architect but it definitely feels like trying to kludge something in the way you're mentioning could be a problem :)
11:48 < nothos> (Happy to be told otherwise though)
11:49 < catphish> the problem is more one of data consistency that performance in this case, but it does seem like it won't work
11:49 < BCMM> catphish: found on google, out of curiosity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustered_file_system#SHARED-DISK
11:50 < catphish> BCMM: yeah, those are quite cool, but the performance hit can be much worse than it's worth
11:50 < catphish> i don't think many people really use those kinds of filesystems any more, distributed is far more popular these days
11:52 < BCMM> i mean, for good reasons
11:52 < catphish> well i do wish there were better, more modern clustered filesystems, my experience of them has been awful
11:53 < catphish> but distributed has many advantages so that's where the attention seems to go
11:56 < Lope> djph: MrElendig: dgurney: it looks like 802.11ac does include the 2.4ghz band, and ONLY 2 TYPES of AC use 5ghz band ONLY: AC450, AC1300... ?
11:56 < Lope> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac#Advertised
11:57 < nothos> catphish There's a lot of "I do wish"es with regards to FS tech tbh :(
11:57 < catphish> i've been really interested in building an open source filesystem similar to VMFS, but realised i lack the skills
11:58 < nothos> me irl right there
12:00 < dgurney> Lope, yes
12:00 < dgurney> again, unless you have a router that allows disabling the radio, that's the best you can do
12:00 < Lope> dgurney: well, I'd rather buy a USB wifi adapter and then make a hotspot with hostapd
12:01 < Lope> that should give me more control etc
12:02 < dgurney> my honest advice would be to stop worrying about some conspiracy theory and making your life more difficult
12:02 < Lope> dgurney: yeah and take up smoking?
12:03 < dgurney> what?
12:04 < Lope> doctors used to recommend smoking and people said there was no proof or science backing up claims of negative health effects
12:04 < Lope> and people who suspected smoking had negative health effects were conspiracy theorists
12:04 < Lope> so the wheel turns
12:04 < dgurney> yes, but as time went on, it was found out that smoking causes multiple health problems
12:05 < Lope> yeah, no shit.
12:05 < kingrodian> there was proof though
12:05 < Lope> Smoking won't kill you instantly, you don't fall over and die immediately. People can smoke for a while and it can appear to have no effect, because health is complicated.
12:05 < Lope> Same as wifi.
12:05 < dgurney> until definitive proof that 2.4GHz wifi causes cancer (or whatever), there is no reason to be be this anal about it
12:06 < Sveta> Lope: kinda like hammering your head a bit each morning
12:06 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
12:06 < Lope> Sveta: exactly, like boxing or football etc.
12:06 < Lope> get hit in the head a bunch of times, people seem okay for a while.
12:07 < kingrodian> there's already so much natural radiation hitting your body constantly
12:07 < kingrodian> I dont think wifi is a concern
12:07 < Lope> dgurney: why do something risky and wait until you're absolutely fucked, when there's practical steps you can take to eliminate those risks?
12:07 < dgurney> there is no proven risk!
12:07 < Lope> Might as well just take up smoking if you don't really care about being healthy.
12:08 < kingrodian> smoking is objectively bad for you
12:08 < dgurney> as is being hit on the head
12:08 < Armand> kingrodian: Zero F's found.
12:08 < Lope> proof comes after harm occurs
12:08 < Armand> I have a cigarette in my mouth right now. :P
12:08 < Lope> there was no "definitive proof" that smoking was bad for your health until a few years ago.
12:09 < Lope> So you'd be making the same argument telling people to keep smoking.
12:09 < milpool> Lope: if you stick to your logic, you should stop doing ANYTING, because anything could be dangerous.
12:09 < dgurney> ^
12:09 < Armand> There was substantial proof for decades, Lope
12:09 < Lope> That's what you're failing to understand.
12:09 < dgurney> your argument is stupid
12:09 < dgurney> perious
12:09 < dgurney> *period
12:09 < Armand> Just... tobacco industry...
12:09 < kingrodian> afaik there are tons of natural radio wave sources
12:09 < kingrodian> everywhere
12:10 < Sveta> Lope: i guess you can choose what frequency to use using a usb wifi adapter
12:10 < Sveta> Lope: does that resolve everything you wanted to resolve?
12:10 < Tuxand> shotdown the space, space is harmfull :P
12:10 < dgurney> you're surrounded by 2.4GHz wifi when you go outside (unless you live in the middle of nowhere)
12:10 < Sveta> Lope: i doubt very many people would be receptive to that idea right now
12:10 < dgurney> how do you plan to tackle that "risk"?
12:10 < kingrodian> you also have AM radio waves bouncing around from radio transmissions
12:11 < Lope> dgurney: I am in the middle of nowhere.
12:11 < kingrodian> also: cosmic microwave background
12:12 < dgurney> ^
12:12 < dgurney> right Lope, do you also have a faraday cage around your house?
12:12 < Lope> kingrodian: different frequencies get absorbed by different things, it's a basic nature of frequencies.
12:12 < djph> Lope: whoever put that table together was a fuckwit.
12:12 < Lope> the reason why a microwave oven uses 2.4ghz is it's well absorbed by water
12:13 < Lope> djph: what table? this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac#Advertised
12:13 < djph> yeah, they're conflating 802.11n (which is dual-band) and 802.11ac (which is 5 GHz only)
12:14 < Lope> you don't find microwaves operating at frequencies other than 2.4ghz. So try to be a little bit intelligent.
12:14 < Lope> Not all frequencies affect all things the same way.
12:15 < Lope> djph: oh wow, I thought something was off.
12:15 < NetTerminalGene> what is DRM driver and what is MESA?
12:15 < NetTerminalGene> what is the difference
12:15 < djph> actually, I missed it on first read - "2.4 GHz band[c]" -- hover over the superscript "802.11ac only on 5 GHz; 2.4 GHz for 802.11n"
12:16 < vanista> Hello, can someone help me swap my CapsLock key with f10 permanently, using "Setxkbmap"?
12:18 < djph> Lope: while a "microwave oven" operates on 2.450 GHz for the reason you specify, "Microwave radiation" is a rather wide range of frequencies ... something like 300 MHz to 300 GHz
12:20 < djph> Lope: but do bear in mind that microwave ovens tend to start around 150x more powerful than a wifi AP.
12:22 < Lope> thanks djph I'm aware of the above.
12:23 < MrElendig> Lope: the power is so low that it doesn't matter at all
12:24 < djph> ^ your blood moves thru your bits so fast that it carries away the heat ...
12:24 < MrElendig> Lope: being out in the sun gives you a higher cancer rate
12:24 < djph> well, given at most 4W of power ...
12:25 < Lope> milpool: no, that's a ridiculous interpretation of my logic. the correct interpretation is that it is wise to have an open mind and it may be wise to avoid something if there is reasonable cause for concern rather than waiting until it becomes common knowledge and damage has already been done which could have been easily avoided.
12:25 < MrElendig> than even gluing a few wifi antennas to your head would do
12:25 < djph> taking a plane ride for an hour (i.e. cruising for an hour, not takeoff + cruise + land = ~an hour)
12:25 < djph> is something like more radiation than wifi for a year
12:25 < revel> Avoiding all the science == "keeping an open mind" :D
12:25 < MrElendig> NetTerminalGene: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Rendering_Manager
12:26 < MrElendig> NetTerminalGene: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_(computer_graphics)
12:26 < Lope> different types of radiation are not all the same and do not all have the same effects on all things.
12:26 < djph> right, wifi is the "safe" (non-ionizing) radiation.
12:26 < afidegnum> hello, i have a 490G of hdd size and wanted to install archlinux,
12:26 < afidegnum> hwat is the suggested size for the root partition?
12:26 < MrElendig> Lope: seriously, wifi will do exactly nothing to you
12:26 < MrElendig> 2.4ghz that is
12:26 < jozefk> what is "network" part of /etc/network/interfaces file for exactly?
12:26 < revel> afidegnum: As much as possible.
12:27 < afidegnum> what about home?
12:27 < djph> jozefk: what do you mean?
12:27 < Lope> MrElendig: people made the same claims about smoking.
12:27 < revel> I'd keep /home on the root partition.
12:27 < MrElendig> jozefk: that question makes no sense
12:27 < dgurney> I wouldn't keep /home on root
12:27 < MrElendig> Lope: only the smoking industry did
12:27 < Lope> MrElendig: you're welcome to be skeptical, I encourage it.
12:27 < MrElendig> Lope: for the past 50 years
12:27 < dgurney> makes it easier to reinstall without needing to copy /home data elsewhere
12:27 < revel> Well, I don't happen to distro-hop, so I would.
12:27 < Lope> MrElendig: the wifi/mobile phone industry is also an industry for profit.
12:27 < MrElendig> (and still does on billboards in africa etc)
12:28 < dgurney> revel: it makes sense to have a separate /home even if you don't
12:28 < MrElendig> Lope: the industry is not the ones doing the research
12:28 < jozefk> djph, I know gateway, address, netmask, dns-nameservers, but I don't know what is "network" for?
12:28 < revel> What for?
12:28 < djph> jozefk: it's a directory.
12:28 < MrElendig> Lope: there is *a lot* of independent research into the effects of RF on humans
12:28 < Lope> MrElendig: so to say that the wifi industry is unlike the tobacco industry in terms of their likelihood to withhold of health information doesn't make any sense.
12:28 < ne2k> I have a headless server. I'd like to run spotify with spotcommander, pulseaudio and snapcast on it, but I don't want to install all the GUI and pulse crap on the server itself, so i was thinking of using an lxc container and running spotify under vnc4server. I need dbus and stuff like that for spotcommander to work, but I'd rather not install the whole desktop
12:29 < jozefk> MrElendig, and djph https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/hnAlobGTM-V1Pw3-Kh1WQw
12:29 < dgurney> revel: to make it easier to reinstall in case something gets messed up
12:29 < MrElendig> Lope: except that it is not 1960 anymore
12:29 < djph> "/etc" <- the 'etc' directory.  "network" <- subdirectory of "/etc".  "interfaces" <- the configuration file.
12:29 < Lope> MrElendig: and 31 world health organization scientists and doctors being really concerned means nothing?
12:29 < ne2k> what would be the minimum set of packages to install to get pulse and dbus to work in a container, and do I need to tweak pulse to make it work?
12:29 < revel> Why would anything ever go wrong? :D
12:29 < Lope> MrElendig: nothing has fundmentally changed about profit seeking from 1960 until now.
12:29 < djph> Lope: except that we've been using radio (not just wifi) for like 150 years at this point.
12:29 < MrElendig> Lope: read their actual paper instead of listening to silly news reporters and conspiracy theorists on yt
12:30 < Lope> companies still fund experiments and studies and seek outcomes that are favorable to them.
12:30 < djph> higher and lower frequencies, that penetrate you meatbags differently ...
12:30 < MrElendig> Lope: they called for more research, more reserch was done and found no link
12:30 < revel> Lope: Do you actually read the papers you link? Since one of those was about ELF (extremely low-frequency) RF.
12:30 < djph> the *danger* of wifi (and any non-ionizing radio source) isn't so much "it causes cancer" as "it cooks you"
12:31 < MrElendig> djph: heat damage over time can cause cancer though
12:31 < ilial> Hello all, I'm looking for peers for my web of trust. Would anyone like to exchange PGP keys?
12:31 < MrElendig> djph: eg the link between hot beverages and cancer, but the effect is really small
12:31 < Lope> companies also create institions that appear to be independent and altruistic, but actually just push their agenda. Try watching the documentary "what the health" for examples of that.
12:32 < MrElendig> and you are not going to get that level of heat damage from a 500mW wifi transmitter
12:32 < MrElendig> even if it were to dump all the energy directly into you
12:32 < djph> MrElendig: well, yeah, but you need to get like sunlight-levels of it ... actually, what is the wattage (?) of UV radiation on a normal sunny day I wonder ...
12:32 < djph> hmmmm
12:33 < MrElendig> ilial: https://xkcd.com/364/
12:33 < MrElendig> uv is nastier due to the ability to mess with the genetics directly
12:33 < Lope> anyway, i'm glad you're skeptical, that's important. I support you having whatever opinions and doing whatever you like with your own health.
12:34 < MrElendig> Lope: as I said, if there was a link it would have shown up in the people working on RF transmitters their whole life
12:34 < ilial> MrElendig: :)
12:34 < MrElendig> and it hasn't
12:34 < Lope> So basically if I want to avoid 2.4ghz I can buy a 802.11ac device, and try to get it to run with 2.4ghz disabled, which might be hit and miss, depends on driver support I imagine?
12:34 < Lope> Because all of the 802.11ac devices I've seen are also 802.11n and so on.
12:35 < MrElendig> if you want to be paranoid: as I said, many devices lets you turn off the 2.4GHz radio
12:35 < djph> MrElendig: Yeah, but the point is, people are (sorta) able to cope with it (yes, it causes health problems, but let's face it, a gallon of water can cause health problems)
12:36 < Lope> MrElendig: well according to barrie trouwer the body has defences against EMF damage but they only get activated by high power levels, and low levels do damage without the body detecting and repairing it. FWIW
12:36 < MrElendig> and disabeling 2.4GHz on the router won't stop that laptop in your lap from squattering on the 5GHz band anyway
12:36 < searedvandal> Lope, there are 802.11ac devices that have been manufactured with only 5GHz
12:36 < djph> well, a client radio won't transmit on 2.4 GHz if the other end isn't using 2.4 GHz
12:36 < MrElendig> sidenote: the heat from said laptop is more dangerous than the wifi it emits
12:36 < djph> yeah, it burns you bits
12:37 < MrElendig> the heat from a laptop in a lap, unlike wifi, is proven to have a negative health effect in multiple ways
12:37 < Lope> kind of like how UVA and UVB work, only one of them causes an immune response. So some sunscreens used to cause cancer by blocking only one and then people would get a lot of UV damage without realizing it and got cancer that way.
12:37 < Tuxand> MrElending like saying bye bye to your balls
12:38 < djph> MrElendig: oh, and on the hot beverages thing - you'll take my coffee out of my cold dead hands.
12:38 < searedvandal> Lope, Edimax EW-7711ULC usb adapter is 5GHz only. Goes for $22 on amazon
12:38  * MrElendig likes really hot tea too
12:38 < Lope> djph: well if I setup an AP seeking 5ghz and it also offers 2.4ghz, it'll be sending out on average 1000 beacons per second, so even if nothing connects to it, that's not meeting my objective.
12:39 < djph> Lope: not if you turn off the 2.4 GHz radio.  Also, an AP is not "a client"
12:39 < oiaohm> The freqs moblie phones operate have been found to be larger risk than 2.4/5ghz wifi to health.   Big one don't put you mobile phone next to your bed in most places.
12:39 < Lope> djph: oh I see you were referring to client only. okay, well I don't want 2.4ghz transmitted from either the AP or client.
12:40 < djph> Lope: so turn off 2.4 on the AP, done and done.
12:40 < oiaohm> Worst documented effect of mobiles is sleep disturbance.
12:40 < MrElendig> oiaohm: mobile phones uses the 5ghz band too :p
12:40 < oiaohm> And that is without even ringing it.
12:40 < djph> oiaohm: which is why I sleep with a tinfoil hat.
12:40 < Lope> oiahm: apparently a lot of fertility clinics get immediate results asking men not to carry their mobile phones in their pockets.
12:41 < oiaohm> MrElendig: carrier freq mobile phones are higher wattage compared to 2.4 and 5ghz wifi.
12:41 < oiaohm> Lope: yep mobile bigger risk way more powerful.
12:41 < Lope> oiaohm: I suspect that wattage is not more significant of a factor than frequency.
12:41 < djph> Lope: um, it is.
12:42 < Lope> djph: no, not when you consider resonanc.e
12:42 < MrElendig> oiaohm: the 46 band which is somewhat commonly used in urban areas now is 5.1GHz
12:42 < MrElendig> for lte*
12:42 < Lope> djph: if you have a tuning fork with C and put a tuning fork of E, no matter how hard you hit E, it won't affect the tuning fork C much.
12:42 < MrElendig> other than that a wide range from 700 to 1800mhz is used
12:42 < Lope> But if you put 2 C tuning forks next to each other and hit one softly, youll get strong vibrations in the other.
12:43 < djph> Lope: my 100 kHz signal at 20 kW is going to do a shitton more damage to you than 2.4 GHz at ~4W.
12:43 < Lope> Not all frequencies affect all things the same way.
12:43 < MrElendig> and typical wifi is 500mW or less
12:43 < Lope> djph: yes, but we're not talking about 20kw. We're talking about mobile phones and laptops, where power levels are all less than 5w
12:43 < MrElendig> usually quite a bit less
12:43 < MrElendig> Lope: an order of magnitude out there
12:44 < MrElendig> Lope: very few countries allows wifi > 500mW
12:44 < Lope> MrElendig: a cell phone call will be a few watts
12:44 < Lope> MrElendig: not sure how much power LTE transmits with, but it's probably more than wifi.
12:45 < djph> MrElendig: 1W outta my APs (30 dBm EIRP).  although that's on 5G.  2.4 is somewhere around 15 mW.
12:45 < oiaohm> Lope: its when you start totalling.
12:45 < MrElendig> 3g networks is limited to 250mW in most countries
12:46 < djph> MrElendig: though, I'm in the US - legally I can Tx at 4W on either band (indoors, PTMP)
12:46 < MrElendig> gsm900 is 2w
12:46 < MrElendig> (some countries are closing down their gsm900 net now)
12:46 < MrElendig> djph: the us is a bit special
12:47 < MrElendig> hmm, 4g seems to be limited to 200mW in many cases
12:48 < djph> MrElendig: yeah, it is.  we get guns :)
12:48 < freelancerbob> need help with this condition, wghat does it mean ? if [ ! -d var ] ; then
12:48 < ne2k> the joy of MIMO is that less power is required to achieve the same connection quality
12:48 < alexge50> hi. i am not sure if this is the right place to ask, but i am having an issue with portaudio running on linux. i am trying to use it, and when on init it gives an error(https://pastebin.com/8bNgH7a7). I don't have jack installed, i am using pulseaudio. while, audacity(using portaudio) is working. I have installed the library from arch's repos.
12:48 < ne2k> I thought portaudio was a Mac thing
12:48 < go|dfish> freelancerbob: help test | grep -- -d
12:49 < alexge50> ne2k: portaudio is cross platform
12:49 < go|dfish> freelancerbob: the ! inverts the test
12:49 < ne2k> never heard of it on Linux. that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, though. I could be behind the times
12:49 < freelancerbob> go|dfish: thanks and what is var ?
12:49 < djph> freelancerbob: if "var" is not a directory.
12:49 < oiaohm> MrElendig: most countries it 2w across the board for 2g 3g and 4g of course 2w max is when you are at 1/0.5 bar.
12:49 < Lope> djph: guns and cancer
12:50 < djph> Lope: and freedom.
12:50 < Lope> have you guys looked at the rates of increase in cancer. 50 years ago 1/100 people got cancer. Now 1 in 2.3 people will die from cancer (IIRC)
12:50 < MrElendig> oiaohm: 4g UE is max 23dbm / 200mW it seems
12:50 < MrElendig> ue == your cruddy phone
12:50 < Lope> but no, no cause for concern.
12:51 < MrElendig> and many phones have semi-directional antennas away from your head
12:51 < ne2k> alexge50, from your log extract it would appear to be a a problem with alsa config
12:51 < djph> Lope: or, maybe it's because we're learning a lot of "natural deaths" are "cancer"
12:51 < MrElendig> not because they think it might hurt you, but because it gives a better signal
12:51 < MrElendig> see the iphone grip scandal for an example
12:52 < djph> MrElendig: unless you're holding hte phone wrong
12:52 < MrElendig> indeed
12:52 < searedvandal> Lope, according to the national cancer institute, in the US, the overall cancer death rate has declined since the early 1990s
12:52 < djph> that never gets old.  and it's HILARIOUS when dumbass kids whine that we're being mean for quoting their lord and savior Steve Jobs at them.
12:52 < alexge50> ne2k: i haven't messed with the alsa config. any hints to where i should look?
12:52 < oiaohm> MrElendig: 2watt is with the boosters I have lived rural.
12:53 < oiaohm> MrElendig: so basically boosters equals 10 times as bad.
12:53 < ne2k> Lope, cancer rates have gone up because people stopped dying of cholera, smallpox, polio, measles, typhoid, tuberculosis, tetanus, diphtheria, that sort of thing
12:53 < Lope> searedvandal: if you believe them.
12:53 < djph> ne2k: "you have died of dysentery"
12:54 < searedvandal> Lope, I have no reason not to. yet.
12:54 < ne2k> anyway, not a whole shed load to do with linux, anyway
12:54 < Lope> searedvandal: have you seen the documentary "what the health"?
12:54 < djph> ne2k: (reload) "your oxen have died trying to ford the river"
12:54 < ne2k> djph, what is this, the SIMs or something?
12:54 < Tuxand> wee need to make a channel named: #Linux-health :P
12:54 < djph> ne2k: The Oregon Trail
12:55 < Lope> ne2k: depends on the age of death.
12:55 < searedvandal> Lope, that's the one where they say if you eliminate meat and dairy you're good?
12:55 < Lope> ne2k people are getting cancer younger and younger than ever before.
12:55 < oiaohm> Lope: really the number of cancers that trace to viruses we now survive is quite shocking.
12:55 < MrElendig> Lope: I got the store for you: http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html
12:56 < djph> good news - we're catching cancer younger and younger!
12:56 < Lope> searedvandal: did you watch it or just polarized against it because of it's pro-vegeratian bias?
12:56 < oiaohm> Lope: ie illness that use to kill us fairly quickly we now live past and the dna damage from the infect kills us with cancer latter.
12:56 < Lope> searedvandal: it's food for thought, whatever your dietary preferences are.
12:56 < Lope> excuse the pun.
12:57 < oiaohm> djph: we in fact have eariler detection.
12:57 < MrElendig> (there are actual use for emf/rf shielded clothing, but those are quite exotic
12:57 < oiaohm> djph: that not really catching cancer any younger.
12:57 < dgurney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Health#Reception <- seems like a great documentary
12:58 < Lope> oiaohm: formaldehyde damages DNA
12:58 < djph> oiaohm: as in our methodologies haven't changed *at all* (in which case, there's something screwey, yes ... but if we've learned "oh hey, 2x and 3x year olds get cancers too because working in the sun and random other sources...")
12:58 < searedvandal> Lope, I've watched several documentaries about health, think I've watched it, but that's about all I can remember about it. And sure, the documentary could be right for all I know. We need both sides of the coin for there to be progress.
12:59 < Lope> searedvandal: well, it's worth a watch in terms of seeing how many health institutions operate.
12:59 < searedvandal> Lope, back to 5GHz only devices - when it comes to routers/access points, you can find a few different APs that are 5GHz only. But they are mostly advertised as outdoor APs.
13:00 < oiaohm> djph: you need to look closer would their mother have lived past all the virus illness they have had.    Yes 2 and 3 year old getting cancer some of that is mother historic would not have been alive to have them.
13:01 < oiaohm> djph: having better outcome against virus infections have had a downside.
13:02 < Lope> dgurney: as someone who's actually seen the documentary, I can say yes, those criticisms of it are fair, but it's still very much worth a watch.
13:02 < Lope> dgurney: if you're an intelligent person you should be able to receive information from a biased source and draw your own conclusions.
13:03 < searedvandal> most sources are biased in some way
13:03 < Lope> searedvandal: exactly.
13:04 < dgurney> yes, and the sky is blue
13:04 < Lope> searedvandal: it's very hard for anyone not to have an opinion, and the virtue of that is questionable.
13:04 < searedvandal> dgurney, indeed the sky is blue. isn't it great? :)
13:05 < Lope> That's why it's a good thing to get information from many sources, nomatter how biased they are, then evaluate their claims.
13:06 < djph> oiaohm: ah, you're talking about *child* cancer (e.g. like what St. Judes hospital is fighting against)
13:07 < djph> oiaohm: sorry, I misunderstood "younger" as in "teenagers / young adults" and not "kids"
13:07 < Lope> djph: so you said this table is messed up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac#Advertised
13:08 < Lope> would you agree with my interpretation that the only modes of 5ghz only operation are AC450 and AC1300 ?
13:08 < djph> Lope: there's a superscript on the "2.4 GHz" column.  read that for explanation as to why "AC" cards are listed with 2.4 GHz rates.
13:08 < djph> Lope: no, because the column is misleading.
13:08 < Lope> Or are you saying it's theoretically possible to disable the 2.4ghz band entirely and run the max number of 5ghz streams, regardless?
13:09 < oiaohm> djph: problem is it depends what dna was damaged by the virus.   So it might only turn up in puberty.   So a 12-16 year delay as a child with the mother possible being infected years before that.  You can be talking like 40 years from infection in mother to child with cancer.
13:10 < oiaohm> djph: more and more cancers are being traced back to viruses.
13:10 < Lope> oiaohm: viruses are not the only things that damage DNA. Formaldehyde and X-rays also damage DNA.
13:10 < djph> Lope: I'm saying that 802.11ac, by definition, is 5 GHz only.  You're reading a table that shows the "full capabilities(tm)" of cards that are 802.11a/b/g/n/ac.
13:10 < oiaohm> Lope: viruses are lot more exact at it than random exposures.
13:10 < djph> oiaohm: quite intersting studies.  so what you're saying is ... "feminism literally is cancer"
13:11 < djph> (I kid)
13:11 < Lope> Formaldehyde exposure comes from foam mattresses and vaccines, and are not random exposures, likewise with X-rays.
13:11 < djph> (mostly)
13:12 < oiaohm> Lope: Formaldehyde multations in dna are randomish and lot of that is block by natural dna repair systems.
13:12 < oiaohm> Lope: viruses due to their nature beat natural repair systems.
13:12 < Lope> oiaohm: fair enough.
13:13 < oiaohm> Lope: its being shocking how long from virus infection and body being over it to when cancer caused by the damage it did turns up.
13:13 < Lope> one day perhaps we'll all drink marijuana smoothies. it's anti-cancer properties are amazing.
13:13 < Lope> (raw marijuana is not psychoactive)
13:14 < Bebef> Lope: What?
13:14 < Lope> oiaohm: heard of SV40?
13:14 < Mead> it might be anti-cancer, but it currently has anti-job and anti-freedom properties where I live
13:14 < MrElendig> ignoring the studies that shows that it can also cause cancer
13:15 < MrElendig> and the other issues
13:15 < Lope> Bebef: https://herb.co/decarboxylation/
13:15 < Tuxand> HAHAHAHAHA LOPE, is not psychoactive.... well... are you joking?
13:15 < za1b1tsu> can someone recommend a keyboard driven DE?
13:15 < MrElendig> Tuxand: he has tested it himself, right now
13:15 < MrElendig> Tuxand: which explains his delusions :p
13:16 < Bebef> Lope: Oh I see. Funny. Thx
13:16 < djph> za1b1tsu: huh?  just use a tty
13:16 < Bebef> za1b1tsu: Maybe i3 comes somewhat close?!
13:17 < drzacek> Hello there
13:17 < za1b1tsu> djph: Bebef, a DE, not WM
13:17 < Bebef> za1b1tsu: Oh I see. Sry.
13:17 < oiaohm> Lope: SV40 is one of the ones that can embed into DNA and and go dormancy.   Its not like ebola that was found going into dormancy in eyes and causing vision problems that were not being diagnosed.
13:18 < oiaohm> Lope: lot fo really nasty cancer causing virus have methods of dormancy.
13:19 < djph> za1b1tsu: "a tty" is neither a WM nor a DE.
13:19 < oiaohm> Lope: these dormancies explained why attempting to find all carriers was insanely hard.
13:19 < Lope> oiaohm: X-rays can kick viruses out of dormancy
13:20 < Lope> Bebef: you're welcome
13:20 < oiaohm> Lope: most cases only if it would have come out of dormancy in future.
13:20 < oiaohm> Lope: so just speed up the process by a decade or two in at worst.
13:20 < Lope> oiaohm: probably a statistical probability, but X-rays raise that probability a lot.
13:21 < searedvandal> za1b1tsu, if you want keyboard driven, going with a WM like i3 or awesome is probably gonna give you the most keyboard driven experience. Or you can set up a DE like i.e XFCE to use one of them as WM and see if that works for your needs.
13:21 < Lope> oiaohm: but there are foods that either increase or suppress virus activity as well.
13:21 < Mead> we talking trojan or logic bomb viruses?
13:21 < Lope> oiaohm: unless the x-ray dose is massive. in that case it's claimed to cause galloping cancer.
13:22 < Bebef> I always thought viruses weren't relevant in Linux XD
13:22 < Lope> oiaohm: but normal people don't get those doses.
13:22 < MrElendig> Bebef: there are quite a lot of them that targets *nix systems
13:22 < Tuxand> WE must create an oficial #linux-health channel
13:22 < searedvandal> lol
13:22 < Bebef> MrElendig: Yes, especially SV40 I guess ;)
13:22 < MrElendig> and ##linux-tinfoil
13:23 < oiaohm> Bebef:  computer systems that most fold and attempt to solve human viruses area all running Linux.
13:23 < oiaohm> Bebef: Linux system as OS is not 100 percent virus proof.
13:23 < Bebef> oiaohm: No shit!
13:23 < djph> MrElendig: last number I heard was like ... 2500 or something ... but most (IIRC) were exploits against programs (e.g. stuff like heartbleed) moreso than trojans and the like that you get on windows.  But I probably missed the memo
13:23 < Tuxand> MrElendig: i agree
13:24 < Lope> do new CPUs get designed such that they are impervious to meltdown and specre?
13:25 < Mead> not yet,
13:26 < Mead> that is going to be a couple years out and require some redesign from top to bottom
13:26 < MrElendig> Lope: also, it would trash the performance to avoid all such attacks
13:27 < oiaohm> djph: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_malware bit more variety than that.    Linux distributions runtime being highly unstable has a habit of making old Linux viruses no longer work on newer Linux distributions.
13:27 < Lope> so basically every system is going to be insecure for the sake of performance?
13:27 < MrElendig> Lope: that have been the case ever since dma was invented
13:27 < oiaohm> djph: so one of the anti-malware systems Linux has is the same thign that annoyes the heck out of anyone trying to ship programs for Linux.
13:27 < MrElendig> Lope: x86 itself is quite horrid in that regard too
13:27 < Tuxand> Lope, and time to develop a new chip
13:27 < djph> oiaohm: hahaha, the sword cuts both ways :)
13:28 < Lope> MrElendig: are there any changes to the kernel with respect to meltdown or spectre that hurt performance? Can they be disabled?
13:29 < MrElendig> Lope: and the linux kernel itself sacrifices security for performance in many ways
13:29 < MrElendig> Lope: lots of articles have been written on that, I suggest you read them
13:29 < oiaohm> Lope: Yes the Linux kernel if you build it yourself you can disable meltdown/spectre and may other projections.
13:29 < MrElendig> quite a few of them includes both syntetic and real world benchmarks too
13:30 < MrElendig> sidenote: unless you are doing public hosting spectre/meltdown isn't a big problem
13:30 < MrElendig> (compared to all the other fun attacks out there)
13:31 < MrElendig> your traditional trojan / phishing is a much bigger threat to the average system user
13:32 < MrElendig> if you are a VPS provider spectre/meltdown is of much bigger concern
13:32 < Lope> MrElendig: public hosting meaning you host a website, or meaning you offer web hosting services, or you offer shared webhosting services?
13:33 < MrElendig> Lope: anything that allows users to run arbitary code on your hardware
13:33 < BCMM> Lope: basically Intel's attitude seems to be that Spectre is just how CPUs works, and how they have always been supposed to work, and it's up to software developers to work around it
13:33 < Lope> google really sucks sometimes I searched for "JUE304 hostapd" and the first 3 links don't contain the string JUE304, WTF
13:34 < BCMM> you have to choose the "verbatim" option for google to be any use for technical stuff now
13:34 < Lope> BCMM meaning "JUE304" hostapd?
13:34 < Lope> I've noticed, wtf
13:34 < Lope> piece of shit. When is someone going to offer a decent google search alternative.
13:35 < Lope> long ago it was an excuse that nobody could compete cos the internet has so many web pages blah blah blah
13:35 < BCMM> Lope: no, quoting won't make a difference there. do the search, then click tools, and change  "all results" to "verbatim"
13:35 < Lope> But now that's not the case anymore.
13:35 < BCMM> Lope: it's roughly equivalent to using + back when google was good, except it's all-or-nothing
13:35 < MrElendig> Lope: I suggest reading up on all the "hidden" options google search has
13:35 < MrElendig> Lope: it is really flexible
13:36 < BCMM> (as in, +keyword used to let you choose which words had to really, definitely be in the results, verbatim just specifies that all words do)
13:36 < BCMM> it's definitely got out of hand though, seems like every year more words are inappropriately classes as synonymous by google
13:36 < BCMM> ^classed
13:37 < BCMM> like "repair" is apparently a synonym for "disassembly", so when i do searches that are *obviously* about trying to fix something myself, all i get is spam from people who want to do it for me
13:38 < BCMM> no perverse incentives for google *there*, obviously...
13:40 < adsc> don't be evil, unless there's profit in it
13:41 < revel> Err. how do you "undefine" env vars again?
13:41 < Mead> all profit is evil - commie bastards
13:42 < revel> Right, unset.
13:46 < Lope> can anyone recommend a cheap 802.11ac USB adapter? I found the j5create JUE304 which contains RTL8812AU. However it's linux support is sketchy. https://www.learningpenguin.net/2018/01/30/install-realtek-rtl8812au-wifi-driver-linux/
13:48 < NightTrain> I have one with that chipset and does work with modules I got from github.
13:51 < Lope> How can I find out if rtl8821au has good support in linux?
13:51 < Lope> NightTrain: ah, that's a nice coincidence. Did you build the modules yourself?
13:52 < Lope> I'm not in the mood for spending time like that every time the kernel updates. I'd prefer to use something that just works.
13:52 < BCMM> Lope: it's not supported in the mainline kernel, but there are working drivers available as external modules
13:53 < Lope> BCMM: thanks. where can I see what 802.11ac chipsets/devices have mainline support?
13:54 < BCMM> Lope: ath10k, i think?
13:54 < Lope> BCMM: thanks for the + tip, I used to do that 10 years ago
13:54 < Lope> +term1 +term2 etc.
13:54 < BCMM> Lope: to be clear, + doesn't work any more. you need to use verbatim instead.
13:54 < BCMM> Lope: https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/ath10k
13:55 < Lope> BCMM: oh, that's super lame. Do such things work with duckduckgo?
13:55 < BCMM> dunno, try it and see
13:55 < Lope> I hate using google directly, every result link in the search gets 3x longer with google spyware
13:56 < Lope> so if I want to copy paste a URL from a google search, it's a PITA
13:56 < BCMM> the verbatim tool is way too many clicks, but it's the solution to google showing stuff that doesn't really contain the keywords
13:56 < Lope> I guess I could make a greasemonkey script to sanitize the google search results, but I prefer just using duckduckgo.
13:57 < Lope> google has become really annoying showing people bullshit that they didn't search for. Time for a competitor to take over.
13:57 < BCMM> Lope: oh looks like there's a bunch of iwlwifi devices that do ac as well
13:57 < BCMM> iwlwifi is a very trouble-free driver these days
13:57 < azarus> i have one
13:57 < Lope> azarus: link?
13:58 < azarus> Lope: Intel Wireless AC 8260
13:58 < azarus> search for that, and you'll find several devices
13:58 < BCMM> Lope: you'll need firmware of course, for almost any wireless device. on debian, you need to enable non-free to have that managed automatically.
13:58 < azarus> I got a miniPCIe version from China, was cheaper than official ;)
13:58 < azarus> And it works just fine
14:01 < Lope> does iwlwifi mean intel wireless?
14:01 < BCMM> Lope: it's the name of an Intel driver
14:01 < BCMM> that supports a *lot* of different wifi devices
14:02 < Lope> okay, thanks.
14:02 < Lope> I've also seen that some mini-pcie devices are actually USB, and you can connect the mini-pcie card to a USB port with an adapter...
14:02 < b0nn> hi all; If i cat one line from a file, and that line is a command (eg echo "Hi Mom") how can I execute that line?
14:06 < BCMM> b0nn: in bash, you can do $(any command) to execute the output of any command
14:07 < BCMM> b0nn: but also, if you're literally just catting the file, i.e. the entire file is a command you want to execute, you could just source it in to your shell
14:07 < b0nn> sorry, how would that look? cat myfile | $(!$) perhaps?
14:08 < BCMM> b0nn: no, literally just $(cat myfile)
14:08 < b0nn> oh
14:08 < BCMM> b0nn: but that's the general solution, that would also work if, say, you were filtering the output of cat through something
14:09 < b0nn> ok, so if it was a little more complex eg: find . -name myExample.txt | tail -25 | head 1
14:09 < BCMM> b0nn: for the case where the entire file is commands you want to execute as-is, you can just do source myfile
14:09 < BCMM> or . myfile for short
14:10 < BCMM> b0nn: yes, you could put the whole thing you've got there inside the $() too
14:10 < b0nn> head -1 execute.me | $(tail -1)
14:10 < b0nn> ^ worked!
14:10 < b0nn> thank you :-)
14:10 < BCMM> e.g. $(echo unome|sed s/o/a/)
14:11 < BCMM> hmm actually i don't know which is better out of putting the whole thing in $() or just the final command. they should be entirely equivalent, so i guess it's down to which is more meaningful/readable
14:14 < b0nn> for my mind I felt that only doing it to the final step meant I didn't accidentally execute any other stuffs
14:14 < b0nn> But I realise that that is irrational
14:15 < BCMM> no, that's actually pretty reasonable
14:16 < BCMM> it goes without saying that you should be really careful when you're executing the output of commands. in particular, try to avoid doing this in any kind of publicly-facing machine where somebody else might have control over the contents of relevant files
14:17 < BCMM> analagous features are one of the more popular ways to of making insecure websites
14:18 < b0nn> Yes, you are right
14:19 < b0nn> I was trouble shooting a docker container on my machine that wasn't building correctly
14:20 < b0nn> and there is/was a line in a file I wanted to execute, that I had found via a find/grep to check its output
14:20 < b0nn> At the time I (using copy/paste from tmux) copied the line out and executed it
14:20 < b0nn> But now I have the proper solution :-)
14:28 < carl0s-> hey.. i'm looking for ideas. not linux kernel specific or anything. I have an smb/cifs share with lots of data in it. I want to mout that on a linux box (running a web file browser - pydio / ajaxplorer), but I want only certain file/path patterns to be visible. Ideally mount.smb would accept a filter pattern or something, but it doesn't. I thought about re-sharing an existing smb mount, but think that's a dead end too. Any ideas? The current impl
14:28 < carl0s-> ementation runs a script to duplicate all the relavent documents to a different disk and mounts that. I'd trying to avoid that and go for a live filtered view.
14:56 < buoyantair> Hey guys, how do I pass in a series of steps to a remote shell?
14:57 < buoyantair> like for example right now I can do something like sftp -i something -P 2323 username@host <<< "put somefile"
14:57 < buoyantair> but I want to be able to perform multiple tasks on a single connection...
14:58 < revel> Hey, guys, I thought Linux didn't have any viruses?
14:58 < revel> I accidentally ran "vim" and I think it's ransomware, I can't do anything with my system any more.
14:58 < revel> They didn't even add a bitcoin address :<
14:59 < revel> buoyantair: Use << instead.
14:59 < Pentode> linux has very _few_ viruses. ;)
14:59 < ananke> revel: 'virus' and 'ransomware' are not equivalent
15:00 < revel> buoyantair: i.e `ssh somehost << EOF \n ls \n cd / \n ls \n EOF`
15:00 < revel> (note: didn't test it out first)
15:00 < buoyantair> revel: Okay
15:00 < revel> (did now, works)
15:01 < buoyantair> revel: Is there a place I can check the documentation for this syntax / behaviour? :O
15:01 < buoyantair> man bash?
15:01 < revel> Probably there, yeah.
15:01 < BCMM> carl0s-: bind mount?
15:02 < BCMM> carl0s-: that still relies on you being able to restrict your web file browser to a given directory though
15:02 < carl0s-> BCMM, I think the thing I need is covered by samba with "veto", but I am in the reverse - it's a windows server, and a linux client, so I may try re-sharing the mounted share... seems inefficient though. What does bind mount do?
15:02 < BCMM> carl0s-: basically, you can mount a directory on another directory somewhere else in the fs
15:03 < Pentode> revel, what exactly did you run?
15:03 < revel> Pentode: Don't worry, it was a joke.
15:03 < Pentode> oh, lol\
15:03 < Pentode> im always the last one to get the joke. :|
15:03 < carl0s-> ah right like a junction point in windows or subst or something. What I need really is to hide various pathnames, or rather, only show certain ones. This has been in place for a couple of years now and works OK but it relies on copying the matching pathnames to a new share, which is then mounted on the pydio/linux box. I want to make it live really.
15:04 < carl0s-> filterfs might do it
15:05 < carl0s-> 6 years old project though :-/
15:05 < BCMM> carl0s-: more like a symlink, really - just implemented at a different level
15:05 < Pentode> revel, i remember in the 90s using vi for the first time and wanting to smash my keyboard in a fit trying to get it off my screen ;)
15:05 < revel> Isn't that the case with everyone, really?
15:05 < revel> Though I recall just closing my terminal emulator.
15:06 < carl0s-> BCMM, yeah.. ok not really what I'm after. We have a live windows server with all the data on it. We allow a client to access various file/path patterns.. it's quite broad, anything with 'scan' in the filename, or 'no formula' in the filename, in any subdirectory of the client's main path. but I don't like that I'm basically doing an xcopy (actually XXCOPY) twice a day to mirror all this stuff.
15:07 < BCMM> carl0s-: oh right, yeah that's not what bind mounting does
15:07 < BCMM> carl0s-: how about symlinking? as long as you can restrict your web file manager thing to a given directory, you can at least eliminate the overhead of all that copying
15:08 < BCMM> i mean, as long as it allows you to restrict it to a directory but still follow links
15:08 < carl0s-> bccm, so basically I have this script running twice a day, and the e:\network shares\shared is mounted on the Linux pydio/ajaxplorer web interface for the client to access. As you can see, the XXCOPY matches and excludes various file/pathnames. I'd rather have a live filtered filesystem. https://pastebin.com/TkWphW5x
15:09 < BCMM> carl0s-: hmm... could you just modify the file manager?
15:10 < BCMM> obviously depends on how nice the code is
15:10 < carl0s-> BCMM, yeah that's a possibility. it doesn't have an option to filter / regex I don't think, but also, it's a bit of a security risk, although we do have it restricted to the client's office IP addresses
15:26 < Abbott> I'm trying to run a program on a headless server using vnc, but when I run the program (google-musicmanager) it shows up for a second then closes immediately. the log in .config/google-musicmanager is only a couple of lines and doesn't show any errors
15:26 < Abbott> is there somewhere else I could view more log info or see why it's closing?
15:26 < V7> Hey all
15:27 < Abbott> it doesnt' put anything out on stdout or stderr either
15:27 < Sven_vB> Abbott, for the reason why it exits, strace -yfo could help.
15:27 < V7> Could anyone suggest non pae normal distro with DE like ubuntu ?
15:27 < Pentode> xubuntu-core-i386?
15:28 < Sven_vB> V7, afaik Ubuntu uses the Gnome Shell, so you could try installing that onto your favorite distro.
15:28 < revel> PAE is only a thing on old 32-bit x86 and I don't know why you'd *not* want it.
15:28 < V7> Because when I'm trying to install new system on old hardware it tells: not present ape cx8 cmov
15:28 < V7> pae *
15:28 < revel> How old? o_o
15:28 < buoyantair_> revel: hmmm doesnt seem to work :(
15:28 < revel> Pre-P3?
15:28 < Sven_vB> V7, you can probably disable the failing thingy via kernel arguments
15:28 < revel> buoyantair_: Stuck on auth?
15:29 < buoyantair_> revel: No, I am able to only run single commands
15:29 < buoyantair_> revel: I am trying to construct a series of commands (basically im connecting to an sftp servr to upload a series of files :3)
15:30 < revel> You're sticking the commands on new lines, right?
15:30 < revel> Since \n == newline
15:30 < Sven_vB> what's a very basic image viewer that has as few decoration as possible?
15:31 < buoyantair_> revel: Yes... hmmm
15:32 < buoyantair_> Sven_vB: I think a browser is a pretty good image viewer :3
15:32 < buoyantair_> Although there are probably better options
15:32 < buoyantair_> software specifically made for viewing images, Im not aware of :/
15:32 < revel> https://0x0.st/sL1R.sh outputs https://0x0.st/sL17.txt for me.
15:32 < Sven_vB> buoyantair_, so what's a good browser that has as few decoration as possible? ideally I'd like to not have a menu bar, title bar, window border etc.
15:33 < adsc> Sven_vB: Feh is probably as basic as it gets
15:33 < buoyantair_> Sven_vB: Um any modern browser, all you have to do is go to fullscreen mode i gues...
15:33 < Sven_vB> adsc, thanks, I'll try that!
15:33 < triceratux> Sven_vB: qiv or ristretto
15:33 < revel> Ah, another one from the "features are bloat" camp :D
15:33 < Sven_vB> triceratux, thanks too!
15:33 < revel> Viewnior's good enough for me, though feh is probably what you're looking for.
15:34 < Richard_Cavell> I have found out that my machine runs updatedb daily. I'm on Ubuntu 16.04. When in the day does this program run?
15:34 < buoyantair_> revel: I will check out :O I should really make some time to learn bash :O
15:34 < V7> Sven_vB: What do you mean ?
15:34 < V7> revel: Pre-P3
15:34 < V7> Celeron D or sth
15:34 < Sven_vB> yeah I'm trying to couble it with xinput so I can have my shell script read what pointer actions I perform on the image
15:34 < Sven_vB> *couple
15:35 < revel> That's not "old", that's ancient!
15:35 < V7> So ... is there any way to install some linux on that thing ?
15:35 < Sven_vB> buoyantair_, a full screen browser will have large areas of empty background around my image, so not an option either.
15:35 < Abbott> Sven_vB: this is a lot
15:36 < Pentode> V7, like i said before. xubuntu-core-i386.
15:36 < Sven_vB> Abbott, the strace output?
15:36 < Abbott> http://0x0.st/sL1h.txt looks like near the end it says it can't find an x server, but shouldn't vnc be providing an xserver for it to connect to?
15:36 < Pentode> it's that or something like tinycore linux
15:36 < V7> Pentode: Yup, I've tried to isntall this one, but couldn't download
15:36 < V7> Do you know a normal link for that thing ?
15:36 < revel> I *think* there's something like "nopae" that you could add to the kernel cmdline.
15:36 < Sven_vB> Abbott, VNC doesn't by default provide an X server, but instead shares an existing one. there are VNC servers that provide their own X server.
15:36 < V7> I've tried about 5~10 links, but there're all about 10KB/s or 404
15:37 < blip-> hi all, I've been using ubuntu for a decade and feel most comfortable there in terms of package management and other aspects.  Need to set up some form of graphical linux on a 7 year old laptop (Lenovo T420).  Would you agree that Lubuntu makes sense technolgy-stack wise?
15:37 < Sven_vB> Abbott, also look into xvfb
15:37 < blip-> or do you recommend looking into other distros with things lighter than LXDE?
15:37 < Pentode> https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/
15:37 < Pentode> and: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
15:38 < Pentode> wait that last link may not be xubuntu.
15:39 < V7> Thank you, I'll try
15:39 < V7> now
15:39 < Abbott> Sven_vB: I'm using tigervnc and it says the default VNC server is xvnc which "is both a VNC server and an X server with a virtual framebuffer." https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/TigerVNC
15:40 < Abbott> but surely the server is starting and it's attaching correctly if the program shows up for a second, right?
15:40 < buoyantair_> revel: Seems to work :O
15:40 < revel> Good.
15:40 < Sven_vB> Abbott, does the program show up in your VNC client you mean?
15:41 < Abbott> yeah, like I ran vncserver on the server, and connected with my laptop. I have a windows open for the vnc session, and I run `DISPLAY=:1 google-musicmanager` and it pops up for a second in the VNC client windows then disappears
15:41 < Abbott> both server and client are using tigervnc on arch
15:41 < Sven_vB> Abbott, now that's curious. do other programs work better, like xev?
15:43 < Abbott> Sven_vB: I just tested xev and it seems to work
15:44 < Sven_vB> Abbott, then it's a bug in the music manager.
15:44 < Abbott> uuggghh
15:45 < Sven_vB> Abbott, you could try using diplay ID :0 in case they hard-coded it somewhere or failed to detect $DISPLAY
15:46 < Sven_vB> Abbott, also check whether you have 24 bit pixel (color) depth, maybe some X operation fails because they didn't expect to run on a low-graphics FB
15:47 < V7> Pentode: Gives the same
15:48 < Pentode> welp, try running something like tinycore linux
15:48 < V7> Pentode: https://i.imgur.com/h5gXwEz.jpg
15:48 < Sven_vB> would anyone know a program that allows me to paint my image directly into some existing X window instead of making a new one?
15:48 < Pentode> that will definitely run
15:49 < Pentode> damn small linux should run also
15:49 < Pentode> and perhaps puppy linux
15:49 < Pentode> im not aware of any others
15:50 < Pentode> you _could_ prepare your own kernel and compile it without physical address extension support
15:54 < searedvandal> Legacy OS should probably work
15:54 < searedvandal> V7, ^
15:56 < kerframil> slackware
15:58 < searedvandal> ToriOS also comes up when I look around, that's based on Debian 8 built for non PAE
15:59 < revel> 8? Jessie? But Stretch was released (2 days less than) a year ago!
16:00 < searedvandal> still 2 years to eol for jessie.
16:01 < kerframil> and another one, Bodhi ("Legacy Release"). interestingly, that claims to use a 3.2 kernel in the interests of optimising for older hardware.
16:07 < hassoon> 'evening
16:11 < ansraliant> morning
16:13 < freelancerbob> why df -h give me more disks or directories ?
16:14 < revel> freelancerbob: If you just want the space available in whatever partition $path is in, then use `df -h $path` (just `df -h .` for the partition you're currently in)
16:16 < freelancerbob> revel: but i do not understand why for examle /dev has 1.9G ?
16:16 < revel> For the partition your current working dir is in)
16:16 < revel> Dunno why devtmpfs should have that much.
16:16 < revel> It's just "10M" for me.
16:16 < kerframil> is it devtmps, though?
16:17 < revel> Well... IT sure as hell *should* be.
16:17 < freelancerbob> devtmpfs 1.9G 0 1.9G 0% /dev
16:17 < kerframil> eh, that's weird
16:17 < stealintv> ls
16:17 < kerframil> which distro is that?
16:17 < freelancerbob> centos
16:17 < kerframil> madness
16:18 < kerframil> although, devtmpfs is not the same thing as tmpfs. the capacity reported there may not be as meaningful as it seems.
16:18 < Sven_vB> for anyone else trying to capture pointer events performed on an image being displayed: you can use xev to monitor the events, and {image,graphics}magick's display -window to draw the image into the xev window.
16:20 < freelancerbob> kerframil: yes i think i need to read about df command at all, i need to understand output first and why there is so many filesystems :/
16:21 < searedvandal> got 1.9G myself on /dev
16:21 < searedvandal> no idea why
16:21 < jubalh> is there a way to find out what process is controlling the X11 window that is the background/wallpaper?
16:21 < kerframil> freelancerbob: you might find findmnt -R / interesting too, assuming your centos is recent enough to support it
16:21 < jubalh> in my case feh/nitrogen cannot set the wallpaper. but when i log out i see it for a split second. so i guess they set it but something else overlays it
16:21 < revel> searedvandal: systemd?
16:21 < kerframil> searedvandal: it don't think it really means anything. you should find the usage is 0 anyway.
16:21 < searedvandal> revel, yeah, systemd
16:22 < kerframil> searedvandal: if it were tmpfs, then I'd be worried
16:22 < revel> kerframil: What about you? 10M and openRC?
16:22 < searedvandal> kerframil, yeah, I just got curious
16:22 < kerframil> revel: exactly that, yeah
16:22 < revel> Betting on that then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:23 < revel> (10M + OpenRC here)
16:27 < triceratux> Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
16:27 < triceratux> dev             950M     0  950M   0% /dev
16:27 < kerframil> hmm, seems that devtmpfs can be sized. just seems like a bad decision on the part of centos. if findmnt works there, you could run `findmnt /dev` to try to establish the mount options.
16:28 < kerframil> or, if that fails, peek into /proc/self/mounts
16:43 < Lope> aah, just when I thought M$ buying github wasn't so bad I realized my favorite code editor, Atom is a github (probably controlled) project.
16:43 < Lope> bugger!
16:45 < LudusLight> all good things must come to an end :(
16:45 < LudusLight> but hey, at leat if you decide to stop using it, there's plenty of other great options
16:45 < revel> Yeah, like ed.
16:45 < searedvandal> nano
16:45 < revel> And cat.
16:46 < BD64> Sublime
16:46 < LudusLight> i was thinking more sublime, but that works too :D
16:46 < revel> You can never go wrong with a bit of printf and dd either.
16:46 < Lope> sublime was cool, until atom.
16:46 < LudusLight> i've not started using atom, ended up having CPU usage issues with it so I stayed with sublime
16:47 < LudusLight> teletype is pretty cool though, still keep it for that
16:47 < BD64> Doesn't Sublime have something like teletype?
16:48 < searedvandal> Lope, and since Atom now isn't cool anymore, Sublime is cool again?
16:48 < triceratux> kutvonen microemacs ftw https://www.google.com/search?q="the+other+three+people+out+there+using+uEmacs/PK"
16:49 < LudusLight> nano + byobu is the real collaberative text editor though, you know
16:51 < searedvandal> I use nano 90% of the time
17:01 < pocketmon> i must make ~/pdea folder git clone https://github.com/longld/peda.git ~/peda
17:01 < pocketmon> git clone https://github.com/longld/peda.git ~/peda  <— i must make ~/pdea folder?
17:01 < ananke> pocketmon: try it and see
17:01 < pocketmon> :(
17:02 < Tuxand> pocketmon it shoud be if you run it in your home folder
17:02 < section1> ?
17:03 < pocketmon> Tuxand: git make it for me automatically?
17:03 < section1> pocketmon, try it ...
17:03 < pocketmon> :(
17:04 < azarus> (or maybe read the git documentation)
17:07 < Lope> microsoft is buying a porn company. People on both sides are saying it's bad for business.
17:10 < kishore96> Imagine clippy on a porn website.
17:11 < Tuxand> The porn site spy on yuo nd try to install malware (more than more)
17:11 < Tuxand> The porn site spy on yuo nd try to install malware (more than more)
17:12 < Tuxand> more than now, stupid predictor
17:12 < djph> kishore96: given the existence of Rule34, it's probably already out there
17:12 < dlblv> hi guys
17:13 < dlblv> I need some help with booting a Linux on ARM
17:13 < dlblv> Can anybody answer couple of my questions?
17:13 < azarus> don't ask to ask, just ask
17:14 < nekoseam> havent been on in a bit
17:14 < dlblv> My kernel stops loading
17:14 < dlblv> And I cannot get into user shell
17:14 < dlblv> So I don't know what to do
17:15 < LudusLight> define kernel stops loading
17:15 < LudusLight> any errors?
17:16 < dlblv> LudusLight: no, just nothing after the last message into debug UART console
17:16 < Lope> dlblv: you've been very vague about what platform you're using. most problems on ARM are related to bad power supply or faulty microsd card.
17:17 < Lope> people try to power a board that requires 2000mA from a 500mA USB port.
17:18 < dlblv> Lope: 100% no problems with both power and sdcard. This board boots well on another kernel and rootfs.
17:18 < dlblv> I just need to understand finally what is happening now
17:19 < dlblv> Even if I take working kernel but another rootfs everything stops right after random initialisation (which is the next step after rootfs mount)
17:35 < janneke> we were using --BaseAddress 0x1000000 for our full source bootstrap build of gnu tools
17:35 < nekoseam> Ranger image previews don't stay open when another window is active
17:35 < nekoseam> hmm
17:36 < janneke> the 32bit static binaries suddenly segfault with 4.17.1
17:36 < schemanic> Hi, I'm looking for help setting up port forwarding between jump hosts.
17:36 < janneke> when/why/what changed since 4.15 in this area?
17:38 < dreadkopp> hey community. i am trying to startx at system boot. set it up according to this tutorial: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/X_without_Display_Manager#Method_1
17:40 < dreadkopp> however Xorg fails...when i start the service manually it works fine though
17:44 < dreadkopp> -> https://hastebin.com/raw/gabivuzake
17:47 < iflema> just roll with that... do your updates there first before you hit the gui... maybe you no even go that far
17:47 < nekoseam> Tried making a unique Openbox rice. What do you think? https://imgur.com/a/Ji1LuEe
17:48 < iflema> silly steam
17:50 < BCMM> what is it with tiling WMs and anime? not criticising or anything, just curious as to why there's a near-100% overlap
17:50 < iflema> not here
17:50 < djph> BCMM: "nerds"
17:50 < iflema> 1%?
17:51 < BCMM> wait hang on that's openbox? why does it look like i3-gaps?
17:51 < iflema> gaps.. what is that
17:51 < BCMM> (but like, with windecos)
17:51 < iflema> gaps?
17:51 < iflema> make the borders "fatter"
17:52 < BCMM> oh god that's laid out manually
17:52 < BCMM> look at the right edge of the terminal vs the media player
17:53 < iflema> :D
17:53 < BCMM> well i feel bad now
17:53 < iflema> dmenu
17:54 < BCMM> but seriously are those windows all manually dragged in to the sort of layout people usually use in tiling wm screenshots?
17:55 < iflema> nekoseam: install dmenu and bind dmenu_run to a keyboard shortcut
17:55 < nekoseam> eh
17:56 < nekoseam> Godammit Xfce4-terminal doesn't scroll correctly with irssi
17:57 < ayecee> >:O
17:59 < iflema> nasty
17:59 < nekoseam> Back to urxvt
17:59 < nekoseam> ahh, feels good
17:59 < nekoseam> :)
18:00 < rasputozen> theres a near 100% overlap between regulars of this channel and arrogant salty nerds
18:01 < Lope> <Lope> dlblv: you've been very vague about what platform you're using.
18:01 < nekoseam> How about we talk about good software
18:01 < Lope> dlblv: check the syslog and dmesg etc
18:01 < nekoseam> I'll start: fvwm
18:01 < nekoseam> Urxvt
18:01 < nekoseam> ranger
18:01 < nekoseam> JOE
18:01 < iflema> abuse
18:02 < iflema> s joe nano
18:02 < iflema> isnt
18:02 < searedvandal> libreoffice is pretty good
18:02 < ayecee> wat
18:02 < ayecee> i don't even
18:02 < ayecee> i mean
18:03 < iflema> not open?
18:03 < ayecee> is open
18:04 < nekoseam> iflema: JOE is far from nano
18:04 < iflema> upper?
18:04 < nekoseam> I mean it's straightfoward like it
18:04 < ayecee> lateral
18:05 < BCMM> searedvandal: well, for a word processor anyway...
18:05 < iflema> isnt joe a editor with a bar at the bottom with a few command shorcuts
18:05 < iflema> was even
18:05 < BCMM> but the real way forwards is to replace all word processing with LaTeX
18:06 < ayecee> fufilling prophesy
18:06 < ayecee> that way all our documents can look like scientific papers :D
18:06 < nekoseam> XML ftw
18:07 < iflema> yeah but like 1 type
18:08 < jim> nekoseam, well, I'll grant you that xml is software... it isn't a program though
18:08 < ayecee> xml isn't software
18:08 < BCMM> i mean, *some* xml is software... that's like saying plain text isn't software
18:09 < jim> cooking ware?
18:09 < WX5SAT> Howdy, I've got a service question for y'all.
18:09 < jim> (ok, that's a moonie joke)
18:09 < ayecee> religious philosophy
18:09 < BCMM> i would characterise XML as simply being the opposite of compression
18:10 < iflema> slackware
18:10 < jim> WX5SAT, ask away
18:10 < WX5SAT> I have a service that starts root, and immediately drops privs to user. Later on, another user process notices that said service isn't working anymore. I need to figure out a way to have that user initiate an automatic restart of the service when its found dead.
18:10 < ayecee> heh
18:10 < BCMM> it allows you to store arbitrary data in a less efficient format
18:10 < ayecee> but a self-describing format
18:10 < WX5SAT> The issue is that nobody's root anymore.
18:11 < BCMM> ayecee: what's an external schema, then?
18:11 < eset> had anyone experience setting untypicall services as backend in HAproxy?
18:11 < BCMM> WX5SAT: suid?
18:11 < ayecee> it's like an internal schema, but more different
18:12 < ayecee> eset: one way to find out is to ask a question about setting untypicall services as backend in HAproxy
18:12 < BCMM> WX5SAT: i mean, could you make either the service, or a wrapper that starts the service but only with safe parameters, an suid binary?
18:12 < jim> WX5SAT, hmm. something is wrong... I guess you pinned down the closest and most related cause
18:12 < BCMM> WX5SAT: this kind of sounds like maybe it's some minimal embedded thing, but if i'm wrong then maybe just use sudo
18:13 < BCMM> WX5SAT: which is basically "a wrapper that starts commands as root with pre-configured safe parameters" when it's set up correctly
18:13 < eset> ayecee: I wrote whole problem here : https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50871983/zabbix-server-behind-haproxy
18:13 < WX5SAT> I don't exactly want to grant sudo on a systemctl or /sbin/service command... as I only want to grant permissions on a few of the system services.
18:13 < ayecee> eset: cool
18:13 < BCMM> WX5SAT: grant sudo on the *exact* command you want to run
18:13 < ayecee> eset: but maybe start with a summary
18:14 < jim> so going forward, find out what gets started first... that process should probably stay root, to spawn stuff that starts as root then drops privs
18:14 < BCMM> or solve this in the proper systemd way but i dunno what that is
18:14 < WX5SAT> hmmmm, didn't know it could get that specific, maybe that'll work.
18:14 < eset> looking for guidence from someone who could point me where E'm I missing something. From tcpdump it looks like HAProxy doesn't respond correctly to client
18:14 < jim> one reason to be root, is to bind ports below 1024, and once you do that you usually don't need root anymore
18:14 < nekoseam> wait
18:14 < nekoseam> wtf
18:15 < ayecee> man this is long
18:15 < nekoseam> hm
18:15 < nekoseam> well that worked
18:15 < nekoseam> why
18:15 < WX5SAT> I though you could just grant sudo on a specific binary, not a full command with parameters. I shall go look at that, and how to incorporate this into an rpm somewhere.
18:16 < jim> which is the other end of what you should explore, what is it on the other side, that does need root, and why does it need root, and does it really need it
18:16 < ayecee> eset: it's not clear here which computer is which
18:16 < eset> ayecee: I've set in HAProxy two backends which are the Zabbix Servers Aps in Active/Passive mode. One is master second is backup (standby). Zabbix-frontend is using HAproxy to connect to one of the (active) zabbix server to check if it's running. But It can't make a connection. What I've already discover is that on tcpdump from HAproxy incoming request from zabbix frontend to HAProxy doesn't receive any [R.]
18:16 < ayecee> eset: for that matter, i've read it twice and still can't tell what the problem is.
18:16 < eset> but HAproxy is closing connection. In logs I see lot's of NOSRV flags.
18:17 < eset> ayecee: https://hastebin.com/jiwuvuviyi.sql
18:17 < eset> short version :)
18:17 < ayecee> what does "check" do? i think that may be the problem.
18:17 < WX5SAT> jim: it's a system service, it gets run by init/systemd so it starts as root. I drop root privs ASAP in the service wrapper. The process itself never runs as root, just parts of the service wrapper that need to create pid files, etc.
18:17 < jim> be clear here... get me two deers to be peers
18:19 < jim> WX5SAT, and maybe that's exactly what you want, so it's the other end you would explore (what needs root, why, does it really)
18:19 < ayecee> eset: that is, the logs would make sense if haproxy thought both zabbix servers were offline
18:19 < iflema> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUNKqk7HXcY
18:19 < eset> ayecee: check? is checking if host is alive and sending request
18:19 < ayecee> try taking that out and see if it works
18:20 < eset> No problem , I have nothing to loose
18:22 < ayecee> i can't see offhand why those checks would fail though
18:22 < eset> ayecee: ok on haproxy stats page of course after disable check it's not showing me if hosts are online
18:23 < jim> iflema, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCKLApfq5gc
18:23 < ayecee> that part makes sense, but can the agent connect to the zabbix server now?
18:23 < eset> no change
18:23 < ayecee> :(
18:23 < eset> ayecee: I don't know yet because I didn't came to that part
18:24 < eset> I'm setting zabbix servers and frontend. Frontend is up and running zabbix servers also as the databases
18:24 < eset> but something is going between haproxy and frontend because from tcpdump I see that haproxy can `talk` with zabbix server in the proper way in TCP connection
18:25 < ayecee> yeah, but for some reason it thinks that the server is offline after talking to it
18:25 < ayecee> hence the nosrv log messages
18:27 < eset> ayecee: who is offline?
18:27 < eset> did you look for the tcpdum?
18:27 < eset> tcpdump?
18:27 < ayecee> i'm looking at that now.
18:27 < eset> If it were offline there would be no responds
18:27 < eset> https://i.stack.imgur.com/HDETg.png
18:27 < eset> this is how HAproxy looks like
18:27 < eset> now after enable check again. It sees both zabbix servers
18:28 < ayecee> you know what's odd? although there's a response from 10.156.0.10, the server immediately sends back a RST
18:29 < ayecee> as if a stateful firewall with reject blocked the response.
18:30 < ayecee> or something.
18:30 < ayecee> it looks like a half-open tcp probe, and i don't think that's how haproxy probes.
18:30 < eset> 10051/tcp open  zabbix-trapper
18:30 < eset> from HAproxy to 10.156.0.10
18:31 < ayecee> yeah, i know the port
18:31 < nekoseam> Been messing around with my own tmux and irssi scripts
18:31 < nekoseam> I'm in constant fear of breakage
18:31 < nekoseam> help me
18:32 < eset> ayecee: 10051 is open on firewall
18:32 < ayecee> i'm just telling you what i see. i don't know the cause.
18:33 < ayecee> what i see is that haproxy isn't getting the response, even if the box it's on is getting the packet.
18:37 < nekoseam> can someone reply to me real quick, testing something
18:37 < mawk> yes ne
18:37 < mawk> nekoseam:
18:37 < nekoseam> again real quick
18:38 < ayecee> nope
18:38 < bls> there are channels specifically for doing this
18:39 < ziggylazer> ayecee, You know your way around security issus right?
18:39 < ayecee> eset: huh. actually, it looks like that is the normal way for haproxy to do probes. it actually does a half-open scan. weird.
18:39 < jim> nekoseam, you mean hilite you?
18:40 < nekoseam> the moment i turn back to irc
18:40 < nekoseam> im testing a notification thing
18:40 < ayecee> ziggylazer: i don't like questions like that.
18:40 < ziggylazer> No I am wondering if I could bounce my logic to attacking a problem with you
18:40 < ziggylazer> Sorry if the question came of wrong
18:41 < triceratux> ziggylazer: trust the plan. you have more than you know
18:41 < eset> ayecee: I added the zabbix servers to cloud firewall because it had targets: zabbix-srv / Source IP: 0.0.0.0/0 tcp:10051,udp:10051 / ActionL ALLOW
18:41 < eset> so I've added tag: zabbix-srv to zabbix servers
18:42 < eset> and also to haproxy
18:42 < ayecee> eset: is that source port or destination port?
18:42 < ziggylazer> triceratux, didnt get that ;)
18:42 < eset> ayecee: dst
18:42 < ziggylazer> ayecee, this is in a lab and all above board.
18:43 < ayecee> ziggylazer: sure
18:43 < ziggylazer> Thanks man!
18:44 < ayecee> but i may or may not be called away at any time, so hopefully someone else in the channel can answer if you're asking in channel.
18:44 < ziggylazer> Yeah:)
18:45 < ziggylazer> The issue at hand is multiple ssl requests
18:45 < ziggylazer> I've  been looking at the code that introduced the vuln. And also the fix. There is one line of code added to mitiage this issue
18:45 < ziggylazer> That line of code looks like this: SSL_set_verify(ssl, verify_old, ssl_callback_SSLVerify);
18:45 < ziggylazer> Now my thinking is to learn how an SSL request looks like and then build something in python that sends many requests to a server that I know got that vuln
18:45 < ziggylazer> If I then bypass a restriction (as described in the CVE) thenI know that worked
18:45 < ziggylazer> This is apache server 2.4.18
18:46 < ayecee> which cve?
18:46 < ziggylazer> CVE 2016 4979
18:47 < ziggylazer> msf doesnt have a module
18:47 < ayecee> the goal is to detect whether a server is vulnerable to it?
18:47 < ziggylazer> 'Yes! Its a capture the flag thing
18:48 < ayecee> does this require multiple requests? it looks like it just requires http/2
18:49 < ziggylazer> Need to read that CVE again
18:49 < Happyhobo> Hi ayecee are you the one that knew about syndaemon?
18:49 < ayecee> if i understand this correctly, if you present one valid certificate for a http/2 request, it will allow you to bypass certificate restrictions for other requests within the same http/2 session
18:49 < ayecee> Happyhobo: doesn't sound like me
18:49 < Happyhobo> Do you know syndaemon?
18:49 < ayecee> no
18:50 < ziggylazer> Thanks for the input! Will try that at once
18:50 < Happyhobo> Well what good are ya.  Next!
18:50 < Happyhobo> J/K
18:51 < Siecje> Anyone use supervisord? Is it any good?
18:51 < ziggylazer> #####The Apache HTTP Server 2.4.18 through 2.4.20, when mod_http2 and mod_ssl are enabled, does not properly recognize the "SSLVerifyClient require" directive for HTTP/2 request authorization, which allows remote attackers to bypass intended access restrictions by leveraging the ability to send multiple requests over a single connection and aborting a renegotiation.#####
18:51 < ayecee> yup
18:51 < macwinne_> Hi, I wanted to upgrade the ram on one of my dedicate linux servers. is there a way to see what the maximum amount it can handle is?  I was talking to a support rep and they said it can only do 32GB.  But I wanted to confirm that somehow.
18:51 < bls> macwinne_: maybe dmidecode?
18:51 < ayecee> macwinne_: it is a hardware limit, not a software limit
18:51 < macwinne_> i wanted to put in 64g.. It's an intel E3 1230V2.. he said that's the limiting factor
18:52 < twainwek> check the mobo specs
18:52 < ayecee> if it's not physically wired for 64g, you won't be able to address 64g
18:52 < ziggylazer> so If I send multiple requests to a server with mod_ssl and mod_http2 I could use that vuln?
18:52 < macwinne_> ayecee: got it.. but is there some system command to run that would indicate the hardware limit? or just need to look up the specs on the chip?
18:53 < twainwek> macwinne_: https://ark.intel.com/products/65732/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1230-v2-8M-Cache-3_30-GHz
18:53 < twainwek> maxed at 34GB
18:53 < ayecee> ziggylazer: yes, but in particular you'd have to set up the http/2 session with one valid certificate, and then use that session to gain access to sections that would otherwise be protected by SSLVerifyClient require
18:53 < macwinne_> thanks!
18:55 < ziggylazer> So we still need that first valid session
18:55 < ayecee> that's my understanding, at least
18:56 < ziggylazer> Thanks so much for the input
18:59 < ayecee> i can see why it would be important, but not critical. it requires the unusual configuration of using both x509 client certificate authentication and http/2.
18:59 < ayecee> and also requires a valid cert to exploit
19:00 < jinju> how do we enable grub password protection to prevent entering into single usermode at startup ? pls help
19:00 < mophed> Morning
19:02 < ayecee> it's morning somewhere!
19:02 < ananke> jinju: what's the actual problem you're trying to solve?
19:03 < za1b1tsu> In your opinions what DE/WM offers the best workflow for web development?
19:03 < jinju> ananke: Am using linux mint 18.3 , donno how to passwd protect grub at startup to prevent using single usere mode unsecurely
19:03 < glix> za1b1tsu: i3wm
19:04 < ananke> jinju: again, what's the _actual_ problem you're trying to prevent?
19:05 < mophed> jinju: im not sure that you can do that
19:05 < jinju> ananke:I would like to passwd protect grub menu at start up , inorder to to prevent others using the machine from entering single user mode n gaining root previlages
19:05 < mophed> jinju: its really hard to protect against someone having physical access
19:06 < ananke> jinju: you keep repeating the same stuff over and over, but not really explaining the actual goal
19:06 < jinju> mophed: its qite possible in RH  distros , have done the same in centos n fedora too
19:06 < kerframil> jinju: https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/html_node/Authentication-and-authorisation.html#Authentication-and-authorisation
19:06 < searedvandal> so you just wanna set a password in order to unlock grub?
19:06 < mophed> jinju: in RH you can rd.break or break.rd
19:06 < ananke> jinju: what's the end game here?
19:06 < jinju> ananke: my apologies that u dont get me , thanks anyways
19:06 < Tuxand> jinju: check man grub-mkpasswd-pbkdf2
19:06 < searedvandal> or do you want to set password for a specific grub entry? jinju
19:07 < ananke> jinju: if somebody knows how to enter single mode for root access, they will also know how to bypass grub
19:07 < bls> all someone with physical access has to do is boot a rescue disk to bypass the password protected grub
19:07 < searedvandal> yep
19:07 < ananke> jinju: which begs the question: what's the actual goal?
19:08 < Tuxand> bls, yup security at boot is locking down a computer in a safe
19:08 < jinju> Tuxand: yes , ur right in otherdistros the concerned file /etc/grub.cfg can be  edited , but ubuntu based distros differ , which is wat Im trying to do
19:08 < jim> Please spell out u as you... it would help folks who are here and are new english speakers, some don't hear u as a rhyme for you
19:08 < frwlkkaw> hello i have a debian 8.10, and i want to disable kde desktop, just to always boot into terminal only. i follow this http://ask.xmodulo.com/boot-into-command-line-ubuntu-debian.html and didnt work
19:08 < searedvandal> jinju, if the goal is to just set a password for either the entire grub menu or a specific grub entry, you can do either. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Passwords
19:09 < mophed> frwlkkaw: set your runlevel
19:09 < jinju> searedvandal: not a specific entry , but prevent further more edits of entires to prevent enetering into single user mode
19:09 < frwlkkaw> mophed: what do you mean?
19:09 < bls> za1b1tsu: those things are pretty orthogonal
19:09 < mophed> systemctl isolate graphical.target ??
19:09 < gronke> Hi, I'm trying to write a sed command to replace "Sample1	Sample2	Sample3	Sample4" with "virus1	virus2	virus3	virus4" in one file, how would I format that with the standard sed -i s//g format?
19:10 < gronke> (no quotes)
19:10 < frwlkkaw> mophed: what grub config should i use?
19:10 < bls> s/Sample/virus/g
19:11 < ananke> jinju: you're putting up a gate, but there is no fence
19:11 < jim> frwlkkaw, some dists write the grub  config for you when you install kernels (and do other similar things)
19:11 < frwlkkaw> jim: i want to boot to terminal only on debian 8.10
19:11 < mophed> frwlkkaw: you dont use grub
19:12 < mophed> you use systemctl
19:12 < frwlkkaw> mophed: ok
19:12 < mophed> systemctl set-default yourwantedtarget.target
19:12 < mophed> frwlkkaw: https://www.tecmint.com/change-runlevels-targets-in-systemd/
19:12 < jim> frwlkkaw, hmm, dunno how to do that under systemd... maybe if you ask in #debian?
19:12 < jinju> ananke: thanks for ur time
19:13 < jim> Please spell out u as you... it would help folks who are here and are new english speakers, some don't hear u as a rhyme for you
19:13 < frwlkkaw> mophed: i tried systemctl set-default multi-user.target doesnt work
19:13 < bls> I will put up an ineffectual security mechanism, the rest of you be damned :P
19:13 < jim> jinju, also, it's an actionable offense
19:14 < mophed> frwlkkaw: multiuser is the GUI
19:14 < mophed> set default sets it. reboot. or use isolate to change it now
19:15 < gronke> bls I need to include the spaces, I want to replace the entire segment
19:15 < gronke> bls it's "Sample1	Sample2	Sample3	Sample4"
19:15 < gronke> hmm the spaces arent properly transition to irc, hold on
19:15 < frwlkkaw> mophed: do you know what sould i set?
19:16 < gronke> bls like this: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/4C11ZtLpcakBA5Mwqg9B/
19:16 < mophed> frwlkkaw: try the graphical or emergency.target
19:16 < jinju> jim: its no offence as I own it , Im fully entititled to frame the rules for my convenience
19:16 < mophed> frwlkkaw: init might also work
19:17 < frwlkkaw> mophed: what isolate does?
19:17 < mophed> isolate changes it now
19:17 < mophed> "set default" saves it for when you reboot
19:17 < frwlkkaw> mophed: yes
19:18 < frwlkkaw> mophed: if i use systemctl isolate multi-user.target it goes back to terminal only
19:18 < frwlkkaw> mophed: but if i set-default doesnt work
19:19 < frwlkkaw> mophed:  ln -sf multi-user.target default.target ?
19:19 < mophed> frwlkkaw: what happens after you set default and reboot? it should boot into that target
19:19 < frwlkkaw> mophed: yes it doesnt
19:19 < bls> gronke: not sure what the spaces have to do with it
19:20 < gronke> bls hmm, i'll look into it, thanks
19:21 < gronke> bls,  weird thing is that when I pasted that into a console, the spaces "went away"
19:21 < gronke> so my sed command was like:  sed s/"Sample1Sample2Sample3Sample4"/"virus1virus2virus3virus4"/g tswv_varscan.vcf > tswv_varscan_new.vcf
19:22 < bls> pretty sure they're not normal 0x20 spaces
19:22 < mophed> frwlkkaw: the sym link should work. but thats what the set default does for you
19:22 < frwlkkaw> mophed: when i use set-default it comes the window with the terminal and right after boots the kde
19:23 < gronke> bls, that's the thing, so I even went into vim and copied the "Sample1 Sample2 Sample3 Sample4" line  but it's not replacing
19:23 < frwlkkaw> mophed: is it something that ive changed before on grub?
19:23 < gronke> bls so how do I find out what the proper spacingi s?
19:24 < gronke> bls like so: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/NRAEQLaGxW7eDPT9jPwu/
19:24 < mophed> frwlkkaw: i think grub will use init?
19:25 < jim> the kernel starts the init process (whatever that's going to be, example, you could set init to /bin/bash)
19:25 < mophed> frwlkkaw: https://www.if-not-true-then-false.com/2012/howto-change-runlevel-on-grub2/
19:25 < frwlkkaw> that set-default seting isnt doing the same as "ln -sf multi-user.target default.target" ?
19:25 < mophed> try that
19:25 < searedvandal> you can boot into runlevel3 (multi-user.target) by setting the option systemd.unit=multi-user.target in grub. but systemctl set-default multi-user.target should work just as good
19:26 < jim> searedvandal, that's just it, I wonder if we have runlevels anymore
19:26 < searedvandal> after systemctl set-default, do a ls -l /etc/systemd/system/default.target to confirm it links to multi-user.target
19:27 < searedvandal> jim, I did the multi-user.target via grub last week to boot without graphical environment
19:27 < searedvandal> and systemd has the runlevel3.target which is a symlink to multi-user.target
19:27 < jim> searedvandal, good to know it's still possible
19:28 < searedvandal> yeah, I found a comparison of the old sysv init runlevels and the systemd targets on the arch wiki, that's how I figured it out last week
19:28 < plexigras> is there something like look but it returns a list that has the thing that i most likely want first and the least last?
19:29 < bls> wait, this is a standardized format? why not just operate on it with a parser?
19:29 < frwlkkaw> mophed: nop doesnt work
19:30 < frwlkkaw> mophed: i seted the 3 at the end of linux cmd doesnt work
19:31 < frwlkkaw> mophed: this is a custom build on debian 8.10 must be something going on
19:31 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, set systemd.unit=multi-user.target in grub. what does 'ls -l /etc/systemd/system/default.target' give you? do it point to multi-user.target?
19:32 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, the systemctl set-default should work just as good as setting it in grub
19:32 < frwlkkaw> serafincpd: how do i put "systemd.unit=multi-user.target", just like that on a new line?
19:33 < gronke> how do I specify hard tabs in a sed command?
19:33 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, on the "linux ...." line, along with the options like rw quiet or what you have set
19:34 < plexigras> i'm looking for something like look but smart like your phone keyboard
19:34 < plexigras> do you guys have any ideas?
19:34 < phinxy> Whats the name of guy@10.0.0.1:~$ ?
19:34 < frwlkkaw> serafincpd: i dont have any /etc/systemd/system/default.target
19:35 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: yes that doesnt work i think
19:35 < plexigras> what do you even call these word suggestions?
19:35 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal:  i dont have any /etc/systemd/system/default.target
19:35 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, do 'systemctl set-default multi-user.target' , probably need sudo if you're not root
19:35 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: i did it
19:36 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, what output does it give you?
19:36 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, do a systemctl get-default
19:36 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: now it doesnt give anything, but at the first time i think it did link something
19:37 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, what does systemctl get-default give you?
19:37 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: that says multi-user.target
19:37 < phinxy> PS1 and PS2 was the answer. 0 points
19:38 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, alright, if you don't have the /etc/systemd/system/default.target , do ln -s '/usr/lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target' '/etc/systemd/system/default.target'
19:39 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, after you have done that, verify with "ls -l /etc/systemd/system/default.target" it should point to the multi-user.target
19:40 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: i dont have any /usr/lib/systemd/system/ folder
19:40 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: i have user
19:41 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: and on that /usr/lib/systemd/user/ there is files like default.target basic.target
19:44 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, do you have a /lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target ?
19:45 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: yea
19:45 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: link that?
19:46 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, alright, now we're almost there. yeah, link that to /etc/systemd/system/default.target and verify afterwards that it points to multi-user.target
19:48 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: that link says fileexists how do i override -sf?
19:49 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, "ls -l /etc/systemd/system/default.target" which file is it linked to?
19:49 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: how do i verify that link points to multi-user.target?
19:49 < mophed> ll
19:49 < mophed> you will see the sym link
19:49 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: yes
19:49 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: thats all good rebooting
19:50 < searedvandal> alright, fingers crossed
19:51 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: oh noes :(
19:51 < TheWild> what is disk serial number. The number that is printed on the label (with barcode), or the number that smartctl reported?
19:51 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, it still boots to graphical environment?
19:51 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: yea
19:52 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: and that link is still pointing to multi-user.target
19:53 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, alright. let's do it the grub/systemd way. in grub bootmenu, press "e", find the linux vmlinuz .... line, go to the options (like rw, quiet etc), right inbetween there somewhere add "systemd.unit=multi-user.target" and boot with ctrl+X
19:55 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, if you get the correct target/runlevel when you have booted that way, do a "systemctl isolate default.target" . that should set the current target you booted as the default. and hopefully that works. if not you'll have to add the grub line in grub.cfg
19:55 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: where can i see the log for the boot, theres something about starting kde
19:56 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, journalctl -b
19:57 < eset> ayecee: solved! :)
19:58 < W3B573R> hi
19:59 < mophed> frwlkkaw: journalctl ?
19:59 < mophed> W3B573R: hi
19:59 < mophed> i am so so happy its fiday.
20:00 < searedvandal> oh, that's right, it's friday.
20:00 < mophed> i havent even been at work for an hour. and it already feels like ive been at the computer all day :(
20:01 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: nop that comand on e doesnt work
20:01 < mophed> the isolate command?
20:01 < frwlkkaw> oh wait
20:01 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, you still get a graphical environment?
20:02 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: after i put the systemd.unit=multi-user.target on boot i still get the graphical
20:03 < eset> uu 11 for Portugal :D
20:03 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: nothing works
20:03 < mophed> look at the multi.user target
20:04 < mophed> make sure it does not startx
20:04 < mophed> or w/e
20:04 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, that's strange. do "cat /lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target" does that have any graphical.target included?
20:04 < searedvandal> it should only require basic.target and not fire up any graphical after
20:08 < Dan39> whats wrong now searedvandal ?
20:09 < Dan39> depending on the distro you have to enable/disable display-manager.service separately from graphical.target
20:09 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: i dont know what sould i look for it says Requires=basic.target
20:10 < mophed> frwlkkaw: is that all it says?
20:10 < searedvandal> Dan39, he just wants to boot up in multi-user.target as default, aka no graphical environment. but somehow all the tricks I know of doesn't work.
20:10 < mophed> frwlkkaw: look at the basic.target
20:10 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: documentation, description, conflicts, after, allowisolate
20:10 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, what does it say on the line After=
20:10 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: After=basic.target rescue.service rescue.target
20:11 < Dan39> frwlkkaw: disable display-manager.service, i bet thats it
20:11 < searedvandal> alright, do a cat to rescue.target
20:11 < Dan39> systemctl disable display-manager
20:11 < frwlkkaw> Dan39: ok i'm going to try
20:12 < phinxy> Why did only one of the three escape codes work in my terminal out of three?  \E, \033, \x1b ?
20:12 < searedvandal> Dan39, display-manager.service shouldn't start when you call multi-user.target
20:12 < Dan39> searedvandal: you'd think, but...
20:13 < mophed> frwlkkaw: just uninstall xorg and your WM :)
20:14 < frwlkkaw> Dan39: doesnt work :)
20:14 < V7> Hey all
20:14 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, what distro was this again?
20:14 < mophed> what about if you use grub and ini3
20:14 < Dan39> frwlkkaw: wtf, really?
20:14 < mophed> debian8
20:14 < Dan39> frwlkkaw: systemctl get-default
20:14 < mophed> init3
20:14 < V7> Which OS could be instaleld on such CPU: https://i.imgur.com/dssmIz7.jpg ?
20:14 < V7> installed *
20:14 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: its debian 8.10 with a whonix build
20:15 < ayecee> an old one
20:15 < V7> arch doesn't support as they told
20:15 < cristian_c> hi
20:15 < hexnewbie> phinxy: Since all three escape codes represent the same character, and your terminal receives characters and not escape codes, all of them would certainly work the same. You need to be more specific as to *where* and *how* they didn't work. GNU coreutils echo only supports hex and octal escapes.  Bash echo also supports unicode.
20:15 < cristian_c> I've built and installed easycap smi driver (kernel module)
20:15 < ayecee> V7: it's a 32-bit processor. it should probably be retired to the dump.
20:16 < frwlkkaw> Dan39: multi-user.target
20:16 < Dan39> dubya tee eph
20:16 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, I'm pretty tapped out for ideas now. have you tried #Whonix on irc.oftc.net ?
20:16 < Dan39> frwlkkaw: pastebin systemd-analyze plot
20:16 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: yea no one there
20:16 < cristian_c> I've got driver sources from github repository (via AUR on archlinux, and via github in ubuntu)
20:17 < Dan39> or systemd-analyze critical-chain
20:17 < V7> Yup, when trying to install Ubuntu it says that there're no such flags as: pae, cx8, cmov; when arch then it tells that there're no such flags as: cx8 and cmov
20:17 < cristian_c> I've also loaded firmware too (in addition to driver loading)
20:17 < hexnewbie> phinxy: printf also supports hex, octal and unicode. So does $'\033'
20:17 < frwlkkaw> thanks for the help anyways guys i have to afk now ill get back
20:17 < Dan39> nooooooo
20:17 < Dan39> systemd-analyze critical chain!!!
20:17 < cristian_c> so, I've started vlc and I've connected easycap dongle to input source and to usb port
20:17 < frwlkkaw> Dan39: i will get back in half an hour
20:17 < Dan39> oh
20:17  * frwlkkaw afk
20:17 < ayecee> V7: maybe debian
20:18 < Dan39> thats fine, have fun, peace, be well
20:18 < V7> ayecee: Which one ?
20:18 < cristian_c> if I look at dmesg output I see a large amount of messages (all them almost the same message)
20:18 < Uller> hi
20:18 < ayecee> the current one. if that doesn't work, the previous one.
20:18 < cristian_c> 'smi2021 Skip broken frame N line, but need 240 in current 480 height'
20:18 < cristian_c> where N is an integer number
20:18 < Uller> Can I see list of users during "host login:" thing?
20:18 < cristian_c> vlc screen is always blank, btw
20:19 < ayecee> Uller: no
20:19 < cristian_c> so, how could I solve this issue, in order to grab video from the device?
20:19 < cristian_c> any ideas?
20:19 < Uller> what is default administrator account name then
20:19 < ayecee> Uller: root
20:19 < Uller> ah thanks
20:21 < Uller> And how do I open my GUI? Sorry I haven't used linux in few years lol...
20:21 < ayecee> startx, maybe
20:21 < Uller> yeah that would be it, thanks again
20:21 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, at this point you should just do the whonix build from source code and select the "Terminal-Only" buildconfig
20:22 < mophed> searedvandal: thats the easy way out
20:23 < mophed> searedvandal: dont you love to spend countless hours fixing the simplest things?
20:24 < ayecee> i mean, who doesn't?
20:24 < searedvandal> mophed, yeah, you're correct. this whonix thing may have some settings that prevents users from doing anything. I see it's some kind of "security" build
20:25  * triceratux gets bored unless his linux is literally crumbling before his eyes
20:25  * ayecee likes that kind of boredom
20:25 < mophed> i like it so much i got a job doing it :)
20:26 < ayecee> heh
20:26 < mophed> i do miss sunlight though
20:26 < ayecee> your skin will thank you years from now
20:26 < mophed> i was a truck driver at my last job. the left arm tan was real!
20:26 < ayecee> yupp
20:27 < ayecee> though, once you get a truck with AC, it's not nearly so bad
20:27 < mophed> now i get to work remote and spend winters in tropical places :)
20:27 < TheWild> lol, my SD card reader has S/N: 12345678901234567890
20:28 < TheWild> seems legit, I'm just that lucky ;)
20:29 < meyou> alibaba things
20:30 < ziggylazer> ayecee, can I pm?
20:30 < ayecee> ok
20:36 < NoCode> I restarted my computer, seen a "failed" process. Look at dmesg, "[    7.168816] nouveau 0000:01:00.0: bus: MMIO write of 80000140 FAULT at 10eb14 [ IBUS ]" -- Running Ubuntu 18.04. I'm not sure if that is it, but is there another way to see what failed on restart? ANd what does that mean?
20:37 < NoCode> I'd rather just remove nouveau since I use nvidia drivers?
20:39 < mophed> NoCode: if you are using nvidia drivers why is nouveau loading?
20:39 < NoCode> I'm not sure at all.
20:40 < NoCode> I'm about to blacklist nouveau
20:41 < mophed> NoCode: see what driver is currentl loaded to make sure you are using nvidia
20:41 < NoCode> mophed: How do I do that?
20:42 < mophed> lspci
20:42 < MyCuriosity> Is it possible to overwrite the behavior of a mouse in a virtual machine by doing a USB driver for it ?
20:42 < MyCuriosity> the mouse is hot-plug
20:42 < ayecee> who's going to stop you?
20:42 < searedvandal> NoCode, according to the nvidia installation guide, you need to disable nouveau. https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-installation-guide-linux/index.html#runfile-nouveau
20:43 < NoCode> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GM206 [GeForce GTX 950] (rev a1)
20:43 < NoCode> hmm ok
20:43 < NoCode> I just did that and need to restart
20:43 < NoCode> I guess I'll restart.
20:43 < NoCode> brb
20:44 < NoCode> Thanks for the help. brb.
20:46 < searedvandal> how did it go NoCode ?
20:47 < mophed> lspci -v my bad
20:47 < NoCode> Restart went well. Not sure what else to check. Ok i'll try that
20:47 < frwlkkaw> hey
20:48 < NoCode> Kernel driver in use: nouveau after I've blacklisted. O.o
20:48 < searedvandal> how did you blacklist it?
20:48 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: any ideas about the debian not booting into terminal only?
20:48 < phinxy> Should `echo hello world!!` echo hello world + the last recent command? o.O
20:49 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, first I need to get my head on straight here. how are you running this whonix thing?
20:49 < NoCode> $ sudo bash -c "echo blacklist nouveau > /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nvidia-nouveau.conf"
20:49 < NoCode> $ sudo bash -c "echo options nouveau modeset=0 >> /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nvidia-nouveau.conf"
20:49 < omento> phinxy: Yes
20:49 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: i tried that, but that comand is not working they say
20:50 < omento> phinxy: Encapsulate the text you want in single quotes. Otherwise bash will expand the command.
20:50 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: theres other way to do it but its more complex i dont realy know and i have to build it again it takes alot of time
20:50 < searedvandal> NoCode, according to nvidia you need to regenerate the kernel initramfs after blacklisting nouveau.
20:51 < NoCode> sudo update-initramfs -u -- I also did that.
20:51 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, how are you running the whonix build? is it a VM or installed on your hard drive?
20:51 < NoCode> Following this tutorial: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-nouveau-nvidia-driver-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
20:51 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: on hardware
20:51 < jim> phinxy, that's exactly what it does for me
20:52 < BenderRodriguez> How does the linux kernel talk to the motherboard or the CPU
20:52 < BenderRodriguez> is it low level to a point where it's sending HIGH/LOW voltage signals?
20:52 < omento> Magic
20:52 < BenderRodriguez> or what is it
20:52 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, did you build it yourself from source?
20:52 < jim> phinxy, try enclosing the string you want to echo in "..." and also try '...'
20:53 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: yes
20:53 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: https://forums.whonix.org/t/possible-to-build-terminal-only-whonix-gw/3873
20:53 < omento> jim: using "" will allow characters inside to be expanded and executed, for example environment variables with $VAR. Single '' quotes are what will output pure text.
20:53 < jim> BenderRodriguez, the kernel is running on the cpu... when you say "talking", what would it say?
20:54 < bls> and best practice is to always use 's unless you need interpolation
20:54 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: the thing i dont realy understand how to do that and i dont want to build it again
20:54 < BenderRodriguez> jim: well, say I create a script to run that makes a series of calls like opening up a file and echoing it out to a display
20:54 < BenderRodriguez> jim: what do those low level system calls look like as they're sent to the CPU or the storage or whatever
20:55 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, I see. so you are running the whonix workstation directly on hardware, not in a VM as they recommend? same with the whonix gateway?
20:55 < jim> well they eventually get to the disk controller driver
20:55 < bls> BenderRodriguez: no, the kernel doesn't toggle individual lines, it write commands/instructions to the various chips and hey handle that
20:56 < frwlkkaw> frwlkkaw: no i dont run whonix workstation just gateway
20:57 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: i have to go again be back in 1 hour if u have any ideas let me know
21:00 < bls> e.x. you write 0x12AB to memory location 0x34CD where the disk controller interprets that as "read this many blocks from this location and put them at this location in memory"
21:00 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, you just run the gateway? as far as I can see, the whonix gateway shouldn't have any desktop environment included in the build? did you add it on after? I have no more ideas really, the more I try to figure out about what whonix configures differently than plain old debian, the more lost I am. sorry.
21:14 < bipul> Hi.
21:16 < bipul> Do anyone here knows any channel to discuss theory of Automata theory?
21:17 < bipul> I'mean Automata theory ?
21:17 < Trel> Other than a writing a script to do so (which is what I'm currently using/doing) is there any pre-made utility that will go through a shell script, manually and flatten any instances of '.' or 'source'  and output to stdout?
21:17 < NoCode> Nouveau still loads. :(
21:18 < omento> Is just removing the xorg package not an option?
21:20 < NoCode> When trying to remove "xserver-xorg-video-nouveau", it suggests it'll remove "xserver-xorg-video-all".
21:20 < omento> Are you using apt?
21:20 < ayecee> maybe don't remove it then
21:20 < ayecee> instead, disable it, or enable the thing you want instead
21:21 < NoCode> Tried blacklisting, but it doesn't blacklist
21:21 < leftyfb> NoCode: it's rude to cross-post your questions.
21:21 < omento> I'm not an Ubuntu user, but is dpkg like RPM where removing a package doesn't remove dependencies of upstream/downstream
21:21 < CoJaBo> leftyfb: Burn him at the stake!
21:21 < leftyfb> omento: correct
21:21 < omento> Could be worth a shot then.
21:22 < omento> Based on googling it seems like blacklisting should work. An echo of blacklist, and echo of modeset, and then updating initramfs.
21:22 < omento> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-nouveau-nvidia-driver-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
21:22 < NoCode> omento: I followed that.
21:22 < omento> Scratch that, comments say it doesn't work
21:23 < NoCode> Apparently didn't read the comments. Whoops.
21:23 < omento> You are running Xorg, correct?
21:24 < NoCode> yes, I checked that.
21:24 < searedvandal> NoCode, how did you install the nvidia driver?
21:24 < NoCode> I forget, let me see if I've added a ppa
21:25 < searedvandal> any reason you didn't install the nvidia driver in the ubuntu repo?
21:25 < Li> I've tried to confirm the clonning process of an iso file to sdcard was done correctly using both "sudo dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 bs=1 count=3800989696 | md5sum" and "sudo dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 bs=3800989696 count=1 | md5sum" where 3800989696 is the size of iso file taking from ls -l. My question is that the right way to do it?
21:25 < NoCode> Used the graphic-drivers ppa.
21:25 < Li> if not, then I may understand why I get wrong sum
21:26 < NoCode> Used the graphics-drivers ppa.*
21:26 < omento> Li: My confirmation is usually if the partitions look funky/don't mount on other OS's and if the iso actually works. If it's a distro it should have a
21:26 < omento> 'check media' option
21:27 < koala_man> Li: man 2 read:  "On  Linux,  read()  (and similar system calls) will transfer at most 0x7ffff000 (2,147,479,552) bytes"
21:27 < NoCode> Okay, this is dumb. nvidia-390 is not installed. Let me install that and see if anything changed. nvidia-375 is installed.
21:27 < searedvandal> NoCode, and again my question would be, any reason you didn't install it from the official ubuntu repos?
21:28 < NoCode> searedvandal: Figured the ppa would be newer drivers. My friend always uses the ppa.
21:28 < koala_man> Li: dd isn't really a good tool for this. just do  cmp youriso /dev/mmcblk0
21:30 < Rainb> my enabled systemctl service never runs at startup
21:30 < Rainb> https://pastebin.com/SK2p7sRx
21:30 < Rainb> why is this?
21:31 < Lope> ubuntu live patch, good or bad?
21:31 < searedvandal> NoCode, I see. don't know what drivers the ppa have, ubuntu has 390 something I believe.
21:38 < bipul> Hi, my /boot directory is showing me full. I'm not sure which kernel i have to delete ?
21:38 < ayecee> the oldest one, probably
21:39 < ayecee> so long as it's not the one you're currently running
21:39 < omento> bipul: Does your distro not automatically remove the oldest kernel? Or are you just doing manual maintenance?
21:39 < bipul> ayecee, Hello :) How to know which kernel i'm using currently? And which is not?
21:39 < ayecee> uname -a shows your current kernel
21:40 < omento> Lope: I saw it, and it really doesn't make sense.
21:40 < bipul> omento, I think it's supposed to done by distro, but i don't know why i'm getting warning messages.
21:40 < jim> debian generally doesn't do auto removals, but it does maintain a list of packages that can be autoremoved
21:41 < jim> it also does provide a command that does autoremovals
21:42 < omento> Interesting. I'm not part of the Debian family so I wasn't sure.
21:42 < NoCode> Okay, so I removed the nouveau driver, removed the ppa, installed the nvidia-driver-390 or whatever it was, and it worked!
21:44 < jim> yeah, if you remove a package that other packages depend on, those packages could get added to the list, but they won't unless they don't depend on other installed packages
21:44 < Trel> jim: "apt-get autoremove or apt autoremove" for reference.
21:45 < jim> Trel, yes I'm aware :)
21:46 < bipul> There are too many files starting with abi,  config, initrd.img,  memtest86+_,  System.map-, vmlinuz- . I'm only aware about  vmlinuz that is the kernel and initrd
21:46 < jim> Trel, there are commands I won't generally bring up,,, for example, rm
21:47 < bipul> which is loadt the kernel, i guess i'm right here
21:47 < bipul> load*
21:47 < bipul> initrd loads the kernel*
21:48 < bls> no, the kernel loads the initrd
21:48 < Trel> Fair enough
21:48 < jim> bipul, try this: dpkg --get-selections | grep linux-image
21:48 < mgolisch> on recent ubuntu version you can just run apt autoremove to remove old kernel packages
21:49 < mgolisch> probably works on debian too id guess
21:49 < bls> or you can make a setting in /etc/apt* to kick an autoremove on uninstall
21:49 < jim> Trel, when you posted that, you obviously had intent to help, something I appreciate
21:51 < bipul> humm i guess the easiest way to run apt autoremove
21:51 < bipul> Thank you all. :)
21:52 < jim> bipul, yeah, that way you only remove packages when you pull the trigger, not otherwise
21:52 < bipul> yes.
21:53 < searedvandal> NoCode, glad to hear it worked!
21:56 < NoCode> For sure, thanks all for the help.
21:57 < High_Priest> guys, I have an [atd] process which is using all of the cpu. Don't have atd or at packages installed and not sure what exactly this thing does. If I kill it, it will respawn after some time. Sometimes there will be two of them. Any ideas on how to debug it?
21:59 < bls> High_Priest: debug what?
21:59 < bls> i.e. do you want to fix this process or prevent it from running
22:00 < High_Priest> bls, prevent it from running
22:00 < hexnewbie> High_Priest: Box brackets usually signify a kernel process. But kernel process named atd is very irregular. It's possible there's like a cryptocurrency mining malware trying to pretend to be a kernel process and atd at the same time. Run lsof -n -P -p $pid
22:00 < mophed> High_Priest: strace it
22:00 < High_Priest> just killed the damn thing
22:00 < bls> High_Priest: you should be able to get the PID of the program, check for its path in /proc, then use your package manager to query that file and uninstall the package it came from
22:01 < High_Priest> I was able the get the PID, and from proc, it points to /usr/bin/perl
22:02 < bls> the check the command line to figure out what script perl was running
22:02 < High_Priest> strace was looping with something like (timeout) newselect NULL NULL tv_sec=0, tv_usec=0
22:02 < High_Priest> strace of the pid that is
22:02 < bls> strace isn't going to be of much use if you just want to get rid of it
22:02 < High_Priest> hexnewbie, I think you are right
22:03 < searedvandal> if it's really atd that runs, you should be able to find out what it's queuing by running "atq". But never seen atd ran as a kernel process
22:03 < High_Priest> searedvandal, there is no "atd" or "at" on the system. Tried finding it find locate/find
22:04 < hexnewbie> searedvandal: It's not a kernel process, just a regular one impersonating a kernel thread by changing its name to '[atd]'
22:04 < bls> it might not be a kernel process. the perl process could be changing its name in the proc table
22:04 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: hey
22:05 < searedvandal> hexnewbie, of course. my bad.
22:05 < hexnewbie> High_Priest: The user under which the process is running is also important. www-data is one possibility. If it's root, then that's big trouble.
22:05 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, hey. as I said in the previous message, I'm all out of ideas. but the whonix gateway isn't normally built with KDE as far as I can see in the build documentation? did you add it later on?
22:06 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: the whonix gateway has desktop env, on a VM or on a system that has low amount RAM (like 190) , it only boots the terminal mode
22:06 < High_Priest> hexnewbie, it's not root, it's "osmc"
22:06 < bls> cat /proc/<PID>/cmdline would be useful for locating the perl script
22:06 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: but my hardware has 1GB ram
22:06 < High_Priest> this is a raspberry pi, running OSMC (debian modified to include kodi) and this shit probably got installed via streaming addon
22:06 < mophed> frwlkkaw: do you ever need to use the GUI?
22:07 < frwlkkaw> mophed: never
22:07 < mophed> frwlkkaw: uninstall the xserver
22:07 < frwlkkaw> mophed: the thing that i only tried before was uninstalling all the stuff about kde* it broke my machine
22:08 < High_Priest> the user this was running under was "osmc" and it had * * * * * /tmp/.xm/upd >/dev/null 2>&1 this in crontab of that osmc user. That /tmp/.xm/ dir had bunch of strange files and some libraries. Just removed the whole dir
22:08 < TrentonDAdams> I'm looking for a command that will listen for an HTTP request once and exit with the information received.  Is anyone aware of such a thing?  I could use netcat, but it would be nice if something out there is already available for this.  I'm trying to authenticate against a system that needs to make an HTTP request to the client's service.
22:08 < bls> does netcat not work?
22:09 < TrentonDAdams> bls: Sure, netcat would probably work fine, but it's not going to give me discreetly separated items, like headers, query parameters, content, etc.
22:10 < TheFuzzball> Any way to get find to output an absolute path?
22:10 < hexnewbie> TheFuzzball: Specify an absolute path to search in
22:10 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, remove the kde desktop packages listed in their documentation maybe? https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Whonix_Debian_Packages#Which_ones_are_safe_to_remove.3F that's pretty much my last idea
22:10 < bls> TrentonDAdams: so you need to script this?
22:10 < TheFuzzball> hexnewbie Boom. Brilliant!
22:11 < TrentonDAdams> bls: exactly, I could parse the http myself, and get what I need, but it would be nice to have something that will do that for me, and just give me what I need. :D
22:12 < bls> TrentonDAdams: not sure what languages you're working in, but I use this https://docs.python.org/3/library/http.server.html for quick and dirty httpds
22:13 < TrentonDAdams> bls: Yeah, I'm aware of that too, I was hoping to keep it strictly shell, so it's compatible everywhere.  Although, python is frequently installed everywhere too, so maybe I shouldn't care. :D
22:13 < bls> you could do it in bash, but it'd be pretty freakin gross
22:14 < Kharma> Heyo... how can I set apt install to only install the package dependences.. right now it also tries to install additional suggested packages ..
22:14 < bls> there was also the family of "small" httpds like minihttpd, microhttpd, tinyhttpd. not sure if they're still around though
22:15 < bls> Kharma: you can add settings in /etc or there's a command line flag for it
22:15 < TrentonDAdams> bls: Yeah, I should check those out.  I don't know, maybe I should do it in python though.
22:15 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: thanks i never come across that page i will try it
22:16 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, documentation is always a good place to start :)
22:16 < Kharma> I tried browsing the man for a flag.. can't find it?
22:16 < bls> Kharma: https://askubuntu.com/a/18553
22:16 < Kharma> thank you
22:17 < Kharma> of course it's as simple as that ha
22:17 < bls> I think those flags are in man apt.conf instead of man apt-get or apt
22:18 < bls> I have to look them up again every time I install a .deb system...should really put them in ansible
22:26 < ayecee> ansible looks like "unstable" out of the corner of my eye
22:27 < bls> then stop giving my messages the side-eye
22:30  * darkmeson eyes bls instead
22:31 < darkmeson> btw, hello again, for the first time, you two
22:31 < syb0rg> hello again for the first time... are you a time traveller, darkmeson?
22:31 < ayecee> this is the first time he's said hello a second time
22:32 < weaksauce> is there a way to capture the output of a screen session after the fact?
22:32 < bls> weaksauce: after what fact?
22:32 < weaksauce> still in screen but didn't output the stuff to | tee somefile
22:32 < ayecee> not without timetravel
22:32 < bls> weaksauce: you can tell screen to save a backlog to a file
22:32 < weaksauce> bls do you know off the top of your head how to do that?
22:34 < bls> weaksauce: not sure of the particulars as it's been forever since I did it, but I think it was <command prefix>+H
22:34 < darkmeson> syb0rg: something like that
22:35 < weaksauce> bls default command prefix being c-a right?
22:35 < bls> weaksauce: yes
22:39 < bls> weaksauce: hmm, that appears to just start logging from that point forward. for getting the scrollback into a file, see the man page starting at: "This example demonstrates how to dump the whole scrollback buffer to that file"
22:40 < weaksauce> i see
22:43 < polprog> hello
22:44 < polprog> ive got a vt320 hooked up to my box, but im having some problems with it
22:44 < polprog> namely when its in vt300 mode, man pages will freeze the terminal
22:44 < polprog> if i open a man page like `man man`
22:45 < polprog> it prints it to some point, then freezes at the end of the line showing an a with a ^ over it
22:45 < polprog> it works fine in vt100 mode
22:45 < polprog> what could be the cause?
22:46 < searedvandal> both vt300 modes?
22:46 < polprog> yes
22:47 < polprog> if i reset the terminal and press space, it will continue printing the page and then hang again at some point, same symptoms
22:47 < Richard_Cavell> Is there a command for obtaining the process ID or process group ID?
22:48 < bls> ReenignE: yes
22:48 < bls> Richard_Cavell: yes
22:48 < ReenignE> bls: no
22:48 < ReenignE> :)
22:50 < BenderRodriguez> Richard_Cavell: ps, top?
22:51 < bls> or pgrep
22:51 < weaksauce> bls thanks for your help. worked well though the scrollback didn't go to the beginning of the command but it's a win
22:52 < bls> cheers
22:56 < polprog> searedvandal: do you think it could be something with flow control?
22:57 < searedvandal> polprog, sorry, I've never seen that issue before. could be something with flow control
22:57 < bls> could also be a bad termcap/terminfo entry for the terminal. those things were notoriously innaccurate/vendors lied about what they actually supported
22:57 < magyar> cyberark, anyone used it here?
22:58 < bls> everyone here is currently using cyberark
22:58 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: i still cant boot into terminal only -.-
22:58 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, does KDE still start?
22:58 < phinxy> Is there a bash escape code to set default foreground color?
22:59 < mophed> frwlkkaw: sorry i have not been reading. what was the last thing you tried?
22:59 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: theres a guy on whonix channel that is saying that he just tried on hes VM sudo systemctl disable graphical.target and it worked
22:59 < justsomeguy> phinxy: That's something that your terminal emulator is responsible for, not bash.
22:59 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, so try that and see what happens
23:00 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: also about that documentation its old and that packages are no installed and i cant find them, i tried to purge whonix-gw-kde-desktop-conf doesnt work
23:00 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: i tried that doesnt work
23:01 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, strange. maybe the guys over in the whonix channel can figure it out. I'm all out of ideas
23:01 < justsomeguy> phinxy: But there is a way to find  and print color codes from the shell. Check out http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/037
23:01 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: how can it be so hard i dont realy understand xD
23:02 < mophed> frwlkkaw: it really isnt
23:02 < frwlkkaw> AH
23:02 < frwlkkaw> i get it now
23:03 < frwlkkaw> that sudo systemctl disable graphical.target doesnt work because my default target is multi bla bla
23:06 < polprog> bls: there was no vt320 entry, i could try and find one. getty and $TERM are set to vt100
23:06 < frwlkkaw> and noooop doesnt work
23:06 < frwlkkaw> if i remove the link to the .target
23:09 < searedvandal> systemctl set-default graphical.target - that's the default behaviour. should set all links and stuff as needed. if then the disable command they said worked over at whonix achieves what you want, great.
23:10 < phinxy> I'm trying to send a color code after enter is pressed, before the command output.  Stackoverflow suggests a DEBUG trap.  The problem is the printf is not behaving the same in the trap as outside in normal prompt.  What I put in .bashrc: trap 'printf "\\033[1;7}" DEBUG
23:10 < searedvandal> if not, I'm starting to suspect something has gone wrong somewhere when you built it
23:11 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: i just removed the default.target and doesnt work
23:11 < frwlkkaw> nothing seems to work something else is going on
23:11 < phinxy> All my tty:s are bricked.
23:11 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, do it via systemctl. either set-default or isolate
23:12 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: isolate works but set-default doesnt
23:14 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: if i removed the link and theres no default.target how does it know where to go?
23:14 < funksh0n> Good evening all.
23:15 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, you just said isolate worked?
23:15 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: it does
23:15 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: but if i reboot it starts the kde
23:15 < bls> phinxy: there's no guarantee that will do anything, especially if the command outputs any of its own escape codes
23:15 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, well, I have no more ideas.
23:16 < funksh0n> When using usermod to append groups to a user, do I need to order the options -aG?  I tried -Ga and it complained that a is not a group i.e. `sudo usermod -Ga user`.  I don't want to accidentally remove my user from all groups.
23:16 < funksh0n> `sudo usermod -Ga group1,group2 user` *
23:16 < bls> funksh0n: usermod may not use getopts, so you might need to break those flags apart
23:17 < bls> usermod -a -G
23:17 < funksh0n> bls: I also tried `-G -a` and it complained that -a is not a group :(
23:17 < funksh0n> ah so the append before the Group, on your head be it if I brick my user.
23:17 < searedvandal> -aG
23:19 < funksh0n> Ahh, there's a way to apply the new groups without logging out/in right?
23:19 < kerframil> funksh0n: -G is not an option that works in isolation. therefore, the sequence matters.
23:19 < bls> funksh0n: newgrp
23:19 < bls> -G takes a list of groups, so -G -a doesn't really make sense
23:20 < hans_> i have a VM who's sound has stopped working (after an upgrade from debian 9 to 10 iirc), and the cli command "beep" still manages to beep, but printf "\x07"  does not beep, any idea why?
23:20 < bls> unless you've got a group named -a
23:20 < bls> hans_: by "sound" do you just mean beeping?
23:20 < hans_> yes, just beeping
23:20 < funksh0n> bls: newgrp is not what I was looking for, but yeah that makes sense in terms of the order, thanks!
23:21 < kerframil> funksh0n: also, there's gpasswd, though it only works with a single group at a time: gpasswd -a user group
23:21 < funksh0n> There's a command that applies the groups to the user in any new terminals without having to log out and back in.
23:21 < bls> hans_: then you'll need to start looking through the settings for your shell, terminal emulator, window manager, etc as any/all of them can suppress beeping via \a
23:22 < searedvandal> hans_, you upgraded to debian 10, which is in testing? could have something to do with why audio stopped working
23:22 < bls> funksh0n: newgrp is that command
23:22 < phinxy> bls• The `ls` command does not do any color code unless its a special file.  If the PS1 ends with a color code the first file in `ls` gets the same color until the first special file appears
23:22 < funksh0n> bls: it is not.
23:22 < hans_> searedvandal, correct, i upgraded from stable to testing branch
23:22 < hans_> and it was a stupid idea, since it broke my audio
23:22 < hans_> (except the "beep" command)
23:23 < bls> some applications call it beep, some call it bell, some call it alarm
23:24 < hans_> well, debian calls it https://packages.debian.org/sid/beep
23:24 < bls> so for bash, it's bell-style, for tmux it's bell-on-alert
23:24 < bls> that's a command that interacts with the PC speaker. it's not producing a \a / \x07
23:26 < funksh0n> bls: ah okay, so I can use `newgrp group` neat.  But there is another command I've used before that applies the groups you've added from usermod without logout/in.  Not to worry, I'll just log :P
23:26 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: the only way it doesnt boot the kde is if i put mem=256MB on the grub
23:27 < searedvandal> frwlkkaw, if that is the only way it doesn't boot KDE, even after removing KDE packages and disabling graphical.target, trying multi-user.target both via systemd and grub - I'm suspecting something is very wrong somewhere in your build.
23:28 < frwlkkaw> searedvandal: yes its possible
23:29 < bls> `newgrp -` or `newgrp -l` re-applies all current groups
23:32 < phinxy> trap ". ~/.foobar.sh" DEBUG and then in that shellscript echo -e -n "\033[1;7}" worked for my terminal (fbterm).  Now the command output is white while the text typed is another.
23:52 < unkmar> How can I reset/reboot the usb system without rebooting the computer?
23:53 < bls> unkmar: you can try to modprobe -r all the USB drivers
23:53 < unkmar> bls: I guess I need to know what order, because I get errors that usbhid is in use.
23:53 < bls> but the kernel may not allow you to remove them if it believes they're in use
23:54 < unkmar> I attempted the -f force option and it is ignored. :(
23:56 < ziggylazer> What is "MAC" value in a cookie?
23:58 < bls> ziggylazer: whatever the website that set it wants it to be
23:59 < ziggylazer> Thats not a very good answer. Its Message authentication code
23:59 < bls> maybe, it could also be shorthand for macaroni and cheese
--- Log closed Sat Jun 16 00:00:00 2018