--- Log opened Sun Jun 17 00:00:01 2018
00:00 < yakiza> MrElendig:  you mean dmesg
00:00 < revel> No prob.
00:00 < MrElendig> dmesg and wpa:supplicant logs
00:01 < MrElendig> also, what hardware is this?
00:01 < Ameisen> Otherwise, trying to figure out if there's a way to get bvterm support in Linux...
00:01 < MrElendig> some have known buggy hardware encryption etc
00:01 < Ameisen> or is it only implemented in the btivise tools...
00:01 < Ameisen> mreh
00:02 < jim> MrElendig, it looks like yakiza has the right stuff installed, according to the debian wiki
00:02 < yakiza> MrElendig:  Broadcom Limited BCM43142 802.11b/g/n (rev 01)
00:02 < yakiza>  MrElendig  dmesg  | grep wpa or supplicant doesnt spit out nothing
00:03 < MrElendig> right stuff installed doesn't always mean correctly configured though :p
00:03 < MrElendig> yakiza: don't grep, read it
00:03 < yakiza> alright
00:03 < MrElendig> and connecting by hand instead of using wicd is a good way to get more useable logs out of wpa_supplicant
00:04 < MrElendig> sidenote: dmesg -H unless ancient util-linux
00:04 < yakiza> MrElendig:  can you send the  codes for that if its easy for you ?
00:04 < MrElendig> wpa_supplicant -B -i iface -c <(wpa_passphrase 'essid' 'passphrase')
00:04 < jim> yakiza, plus, what's your wireless access point configured to do?
00:04 < MrElendig> will have to stop wicd first
00:05 < MrElendig> and kill any existing wpa_supplicant sessions running
00:05 < MrElendig> using broadcom-wl or the other driver btw?
00:06 < MrElendig> well, cypress-wl now :p
00:07 < yakiza> MrElendig:  i googled the exact  model of mine and there was a seperate tutorial on  debian for mine and few other and i followed that
00:08 < MrElendig> there are two different drivers for it
00:08 < syb0rg> so which entry level linux certification do you guys think is most valuable?
00:09 < yakiza> MrElendig:  https://wiki.debian.org/wl
00:09 < yakiza> wl
00:11 < MrElendig> syb0rg: too little info to answer
00:11 < MrElendig> depends on what you are going for, and how you define "valuable"
00:11 < syb0rg> well being a sysadmin interests me, does that help MrElendig
00:11 < syb0rg> valuable meaning looks good on a resume
00:11 < MrElendig> most of them aren't worth the email they are written in
00:12 < Alpha-Omega> Hello, running a script locally that runs commands on a remote server with SSH. For some reason an echo of a variable doesn't return anything, but if I SSH manually and run it, the echo outputs correctly.
00:12 < MrElendig> when it comes to actual skill level
00:12 < syb0rg> yeah, I can believe that
00:12 < MrElendig> if you just want CV padding, get the 3-4 most common ones
00:12 < Alpha-Omega> latest=$(ls | awk -F"_|-" '{ print $10 }' | tail -n 1)
00:12 < syb0rg> seems reasonable I suppose
00:12 < yakiza> MrElendig:  wpa_supplicant -B -i interface -c rooter1 123456 like this?
00:12 < MrElendig> Alpha-Omega: never do that
00:13 < MrElendig> Alpha-Omega: use find(1)
00:13 < Alpha-Omega> MrElendig: How would I run commands and grab variables then, if I need them locally?
00:13 < MrElendig> Alpha-Omega: https://mywiki.wooledge.org/ParsingLs
00:13 < syb0rg> thanks for the input MrElendig.
00:13 < MrElendig> Alpha-Omega: in addition to that yours will break depending on locale settings
00:13 < V7> MrElendig: Found some same situation ( might be ): https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1238674#p1238674
00:14 < MrElendig> Alpha-Omega: sadly in bash/sh getting the newest file is quite messy
00:14 < V7> It describes the same as here
00:14 < Alpha-Omega> MrElendig: Well find won't work, because there are several files with the same type of alphanumerical number, but there may be two of those type of files for one date.
00:14 < MrElendig> Alpha-Omega: find -printf + sort will work
00:14 < V7> With ALC880 it shows all column in alsamixer, but sound doesn't work. Only speaker burps each ~5 seconds
00:15 < MrElendig> Alpha-Omega: personally I would not use a shellscript though
00:15 < Alpha-Omega> MrElendig: So like there may be file1-haadf1.txt file2-haadf1.txt file3-haadf1.txt file1-bbbac1.txt file2-bbbac1.txt, and they all have the same modification date.
00:16 < syb0rg> MrElendig, what do you consider a good resource for actually improving my abilities? Everything I have learned so far is just from poking at computers and doing research until I can make them do what I want
00:16 < Alpha-Omega> It's seems to be already sorted, so I just want to grab that part of the last file listed, then use that with * to select the other files.
00:17 < neoncortex> syb0rg: I think that's the way to learn, I'm doing the same
00:17 < MrElendig> syb0rg: best way is to get some form of apprenticeship and/or formal education
00:17 < MrElendig> preferably and
00:17 < MrElendig> preferably combined into one
00:17 < klemax> After upgrading my kubuntu from 17.10 to 18.04, i got white screen problem after suspending. I checked the logs and saw: "radeon - failed testing IB on ring 5 (-110) / fence wait time out"
00:17 < syb0rg> I am also working on the formal education bit, though I am studying computer engineering. I just completed an associates, hopefully I can get some scholarships and making finishing my bachelor's more economical soon
00:17 < klemax> have ati drivers changed with 4.15 kernel?
00:18 < syb0rg> *make
00:18 < neoncortex> Now I can almost call myself programmer, thanks to youtube and random documentation/books xD
00:18 < Alpha-Omega> But is there any reason why the variable outputs as basically null in the shell script vs. running manually with SSH?
00:18 < LEYEVA> test
00:18 < MrElendig> different shell, locale settings, etc etc
00:19 < MrElendig> it is so fragile that it can break in 50 different ways
00:19 < MrElendig> you really are better off using something else than shellscript if you want to sort by both time and name
00:20 < LEYEVA> i need some help with snmpwalk, i can snmp walk from my server but cannot from same server virtual machine. both use ip from same subnet, which is added in the router i want to monitor.
00:21 < MrElendig> also, what the rest of your script is doing
00:21 < pingfloyd> syb0rg: how come computer engineering instead of computer science?
00:22 < MrElendig> you do get to play more with hardware
00:23 < syb0rg> pingfloyd, the engineering classes really interest me, and I am of the opinion that a) from what I have heard, computer science degrees don't necessariy translate directly to programming skills and b) it is easier to learn coding on your own than engineering skills
00:23 < syb0rg> and what MrElendig said =P
00:23 < revel> LEYEVA: I'm guessing your VM is on a virtualized network and its local network isn't the same one that the host has.
00:24 < revel> Somewhere on 10.0.0.0/8 instead of somewhere in 192.168.0.0/16, even, probably.
00:24 < LEYEVA> @revel, how do icheck all snmp related log?
00:24 < syb0rg> also engineering classes are more difficult and expose me to more fields, andd I enjoy the challenge
00:24 < revel> Err. Dunno.
00:24 < pingfloyd> syb0rg: computer science is larger in scope
00:25 < syb0rg> larger than programming? I am aware of that pingfloyd
00:25 < syb0rg> it is a lot more academic and theoretical, right?
00:25 < syb0rg> I was torn between studying the two honestly
00:26 < python476> uml killed any desire for me to stay in soft. eng.
00:27 < python476> born in the wrong decade
00:27 < syb0rg> what is uml?
00:27 < python476> diagram notation to make sense of c++ projects
00:27 < pingfloyd> a new age thing
00:27 < syb0rg> ah, that does sound like it could be painful
00:28 < python476> designed by comitee, turned into a blackhole business of its own
00:28 < syb0rg> ick
00:28 < pingfloyd> like computing with extra bureaucracy
00:28 < python476> note that I'm biased against, it has some value, very little but non zero
00:28 < pingfloyd> sure, but how boring
00:28 < syb0rg> I do despise politicized subjects, which it sounds like that is from what you said
00:29 < python476> uml caught the same disease java enterprise, the more they tried to solve problems the more problems they created
00:29 < neoncortex> Yes, now you have do draw your software first ¬¬
00:29 < neoncortex> preferably colored
00:29 < pingfloyd> more designing and problem solving, and less meetings please
00:29 < syb0rg> heh. I actually like Java, which I know makes me weird
00:29 < python476> neoncortex: free business meetings to discuss what arrow will mean what
00:29 < syb0rg> never messed with "enterprise" stuff though
00:29 < pingfloyd> neoncortex: and buy superfluous software to draw it with
00:30 < pingfloyd> if I'm going to draw picture, I'm going to do it free hand
00:30 < python476> pingfloyd: IBM Modeling Service division is waiting for you
00:30 < neoncortex> I honestly don't get why they do this
00:30 < pingfloyd> neoncortex: to flesh out the design and make it easier to track
00:31 < pingfloyd> it's pretty much a symptom of OOP
00:31 < python476> I see three reasons: 1) too look fancy 2) EE diagrams envy 3) have something to sell 4) what pingfloyd said
00:31 < pingfloyd> OOP put more focus on thinking things out before hand
00:31 < pingfloyd> like more time mapping things than typing things
00:31 < neoncortex> Maybe I don't get it because I'm paying with C mostly
00:32 < neoncortex> #playing
00:32 < pingfloyd> neoncortex: likely
00:32 < pingfloyd> neoncortex: you don't need stuff like so much in C
00:32 < python476> somewhere there's a uml-to-c translator
00:32 < python476> I know there's a UML-to-COBOL one so ..
00:33 < pingfloyd> what a travesty
00:33 < syb0rg> huh, so it actually translates directly to code?
00:33 < syb0rg> that sounds kinda neat
00:33 < python476> syb0rg: depends on the scope of the tool
00:33 < python476> usually it's more at the integration layer, uml -> <language> stubs
00:34 < python476> so then people can fill in the actual code, but each blocks integrates well as designed on the diagram
00:34 < python476> it's half HR half engineering
00:34 < pingfloyd> design by committee
00:34 < python476> for actual code, you'd need an actual 'interpreter' and semantics
00:35 < pingfloyd> it belongs in the same garbage can as clouds do
00:35 < python476> which were discussed at one point, Executable UML was a thing
00:35 < pingfloyd> python476: the horror
00:35 < pingfloyd> that sounds like something microsoft would do
00:35 < python476> never knew who was into that
00:36 < python476> but since UML has sequences, you basically have Visual Basic 2.0
00:36 < python476> (sic)
00:36 < syb0rg> seems like it could be helpful on really large scale projects, and terribly inefficient for  smaller ones
00:36 < python476> just imagine the fun of making UML diagrams for your executable UML code
00:36 < python476> syb0rg: that's its birthplace
00:36 < python476> big fat projects
00:36 < syb0rg> it's UML all the way down
00:37 < pingfloyd> python476: that's the kind of thing that makes people change professions
00:37 < python476> pingfloyd: hence my jobless status
00:37 < neoncortex> Microsoft is a company hard to understand, they have all resources of the world and do this: https://www.preining.info/blog/2018/06/microsofts-failed-attempt-on-debian-packaging/
00:37 < python476> the thing is that big projects were the result of such way of working
00:37 < python476> with proper languages and learning you can cut codebase, project management by 20x
00:37 < syb0rg> from what I hear they are not too organized internally, different branches work at odds with one another
00:38 < pingfloyd> stuff like that is suits imposing their ways on programmers
00:38 < python476> syb0rg: that's been said in the past
00:38 < python476> but since the new CEO it may be different
00:38 < syb0rg> yeah I'm basing it off of what I have heard from someone who is a project manager there
00:38 < python476> also, MS is not the only one to suffer from internal friction
00:38 < syb0rg> doubtless, managing a company that large has to be a nightmare
00:38 < python476> Many major brands had this, Sony for instance
00:39 < pingfloyd> Apple is another infamous example
00:39 < pingfloyd> pitting the Apple II* people against the mac people
00:39 < pingfloyd> all so Steve can make more money
00:39 < python476> politics
00:39 < pingfloyd> troll your talent, stand back and collect money
00:40 < python476> on this I have a slightly weird hunch
00:40 < python476> I have talent but I do nothing because I don't have desire for setting up and managing a company
00:40 < python476> i feel like that's exactly Jobs role in relation to Wozniak
00:41 < pingfloyd> yeah, it was easier to play Woz
00:41 < python476> Woz would have given it's computer schematics to a club because he was happy, and it might have ended up in a drawer. We'd be using IBM PC 2018
00:41  * python476 sent from a thinkpad ...
00:42 < pingfloyd> the brain behind Apple that gets no recognition.  Typical technology industry.
00:42 < syb0rg> hehe, what model python476? I had a p51s, but the motherboard died, twice.
00:42 < python476> syb0rg: 'vintage x201'
00:42 < pingfloyd> The Great Leader Steve Jobs kind of pioneered that whole approach
00:42 < polprog> t420 here. i love the old keyboard
00:42 < python476> p51s are the china made motherboards ?
00:42 < syb0rg> the keyboards and trackpoint are awesome
00:42 < python476> pingfloyd: I'm sure you enjoy Musk keynotes
00:42 < syb0rg> that is definitely their best feature
00:43 < syb0rg> python476, no idea.
00:43 < python476> yeah every new thinkpads with chicklets make me cringe a little
00:43 < python476> syb0rg: I got confused
00:43 < python476> there's a chinese company named something 51 or 52
00:43 < syb0rg> ah gotcha
00:44 < python476> they sell modern motherboards for older thinkpads
00:44 < python476> so you can have your old keyboard and run a core i7 gen5
00:44 < syb0rg> nah the p51s was a new model
00:44 < python476> yeah, I just never read about P series
00:44 < syb0rg> the keyboard was still a lot nicer than any other laptop I have used though
00:44 < python476> I like 12"
00:44 < electrosys> ls
00:44 < neoncortex> python476: That's actually a nice idea
00:44 < python476> syb0rg: I use thinkpads because of the keyboards
00:44 < syb0rg> I don't have an old thinkpad to compare it to
00:44 < python476> neoncortex: the retrofitted motherboards ?
00:45 < neoncortex> yes
00:45 < python476> it is
00:45 < python476> they have tiny quality issues, but mostly their biggest problems is backlog
00:45 < python476> IIRC you have to wait quite a while
00:46 < syb0rg> that does sound like a rather niche product, doesn't surprise me they don't have a large stockpile
00:46 < python476> true
00:46 < python476> thinkpadders are faithful but not massive
00:47 < python476> although if I could I'd set all primary schools nearby with thinkpads
00:47 < python476> 100$ 2nd hand x201 beats most things on shelves
00:48 < pingfloyd> I think right now OEMs are giving tablets preferential treatment because it's all the fad
00:48 < ChrisVim> hey guys! i'd like to know which lightweight vim-style internet browser you recommend? i tried qutebrowser and i really like the productivity. are there any recommendations which other browser i should try?
00:48 < Ameisen> Can the huge/large page allocation scheme be determined per-process rather than globally for the kernel
00:49 < Ameisen> I'd rather profile the processes as they're running, and next time they run, pre-select the proper page size to use for allocations
00:49 < python476> ChrisVim: never really used it but people often mentioned vimperator plugin for ..firefox? or chrome
00:49 < neoncortex> ChrisVim: Sadly we in need of one, I used to use xombrero but it's dead, and I do not know if dwb is still maintained
00:50 < pingfloyd> I don't see laptops going anywhere though, because they're becoming more about form factor to accommodate the keyboard and touchpad.
00:50 < ChrisVim> python476: thanks for the tip but i find firefox and chrome pretty heavyweight
00:50 < neoncortex> Also in the new firefox versions, vimperato
00:50 < neoncortex> err
00:50 < neoncortex> vimperator is now imcompatible with newer firefox, because they changed all the engine, plugins
00:50 < johnstras> hello , i just installed lamp-server on my ubuntu 18.04, i can not access mysql via phpmyadmin or mysql work bench
00:51 < ChrisVim> neoncortex: i don't think so last commit was 5 years ago. maybe a fork...
00:51 < johnstras> i dont get why, but i can only through the terminal
00:51 < python476> ChrisVim: well said :)
00:51 < johnstras> what should i do please
00:52 < neoncortex> ChrisVim: to vimperator?
00:52 < ChrisVim> neoncortex: to dwb
00:52 < neoncortex> Oh
00:52 < neoncortex> Yeah, so we out of luck
00:52 < tonymke> johnstras: you probably want this. mysql will only allow local socket connections by default. https://www.devside.net/wamp-server/accessing-mysql-or-phpmyadmin-from-outside
00:53 < neoncortex> It means another code to write xD
00:53 < jim> johnstras, did the mysql server say why it couldn't be accessed?
00:53 < pingfloyd> I didn't care much for vimperator back when
00:53 < neoncortex> ChrisVim: If you stop and analyze it, it's easy, because we have Webkit, you just need to interface it
00:53 < johnstras>  #1698 - Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' , and also mysqli_real_connect(): (HY000/1698): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost'
00:54 < johnstras> thats what i have
00:54 < wr> what can i use besides remmina that has rdp?
00:55 < ChrisVim> so thanks for your thoughts neoncortex and python476. i have to get some sleep. bye
00:55 < python476> same
00:55 < python476> night
00:56 < johnstras> jim: yeah,
01:01 < johnstras> i have tried every thing , but still same issues
01:01 < johnstras> bind-address and co
01:07 < electrosys> i still can't figure out how to write to the mutt search results that are links created in ~/.cache/notmuch/results
01:07 < electrosys> any ideas?
01:11 < tonymke> johnstras: you're sure phpmyadmin is using the right password?
01:11 < johnstras> tonymke: im using the right password
01:13 < tonymke> Might try changing it to be sure. All I can think of.
01:13 < johnstras> tonymke: i can access from it from the terminal
01:15 < pingfloyd> johnstras: https://askubuntu.com/questions/763336/cannot-enter-phpmyadmin-as-root-mysql-5-7
01:18 < j3kyl_> a
01:27 < AndroidKitKat> anyone here use i3 and flameshot? trying to get it to capture a region on mod + printscreen
01:29 < Loshki> wr: vinagre
01:30 < wr> Loshki, tried that one already, didnt go well
01:31 < Loshki> wr: that just leaves rdesktop that I know of.
01:32 < wr> Loshki, rdesktop is just terminal right?
01:35 < Loshki> wr: well, it speaks rdp. I use it to connect to windows systems. For everything else I use vnc. I thought you specifically asked for rdp though.
01:35 < wr> Loshki, yes
01:36 < useless-eater> Hi guys,  I have some strange problems with a lenovo E330. Its dead slow authenticating when logging inn,  when sudo -i, and wifi is horrible.  Not sure what could be causing this. This is the dmesg, some strange errors in there. http://paste.debian.net/1029525/
01:37 < angerctl> install and set up haveged
01:37 < electrosys> i guess you have to trick mutt/notmuch search results to write to them, with a macro, its so weird.
01:37 < useless-eater> seems like could be related to error at line 495 ? or 721, 726?
01:38 < angerctl> unlikely
01:39 < angerctl> look at he large gap in the timestamps between 779 and 780
01:39 < angerctl> your system ran out of entropy
01:39 < useless-eater> oh
01:40 < jim> useless-eater, which wireless card do you have? and, which wireless access point do you have?
01:42 < useless-eater> jim: Network controller: Broadcom Limited BCM4313 802.11bgn Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)
01:42 < useless-eater> has been horrible on other access points too
01:42 < useless-eater> (everyone tested so far)
01:43 < jim> has it ever been ok?
01:43 < iflema> throw it away .
01:43 < useless-eater> jim: I believe so. Its not mine, just installed linux on it for someone
01:44 < jim> where is the someone's access point? or, not where, but did you try that?
01:48 < useless-eater> hm this looks a little promiseing  https://wiki.debian.org/wl
01:49 < jim> are you running a debian on it?
01:50 < useless-eater> jim: yep
01:52 < jim> maybe you already have a driver... is that machine on the net using a different interface right now?
01:53 < jim> like, ethernet?
01:53 < useless-eater> hm followed the guide, and seems to have done the trick
01:54 < jim> it's working?
01:54 < Drakonan> my openvpn has seemed to stop working anything i can do to figure out what's going on? im trying to connect local to rule out any modem/internet/forwarding/nat  issues... but nothing... i see tcp and udp ports 1194 are opened local
01:54 < useless-eater> modprobe -r b44 b43 b43legacy ssb brcmsmac bcma ; modprobe wl   and connected without problem.  I should blacklist these I guess.
01:54 < useless-eater> jim: yea,  works well now 0.o
01:54 < Drakonan> What else can i check?  iptables -L shows nothing at all
01:54 < jim> useless-eater, sounds great
02:06 < BenderRodriguez> random question
02:06 < BenderRodriguez> are there any efforts in the linux community to develop open source smart TV firmware
02:06 < BenderRodriguez> my LG TV is still network-enabled and woefully out of date
02:06 < BenderRodriguez> and I fear it's running an old version of the linux kernel that's open to various security bugs
02:07 < tips-fedora> I'm not sure, but android TV is a thing and android is technically linux
02:07 < tips-fedora> Android does have many security risks though
02:08 < Drakonan> ok so my crl expired
02:08 < Psi-Jack> Well, I'm back off the Arch bandwagon again. LOL
02:09 < revel> Certificate revocation list?
02:10 < jim> Psi-Jack, in favor of which?
02:10 < Psi-Jack> Started using Solus as of yesterday & today.
02:10 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: the ultimate irony. i converted RevengeOS & Anarchy to use the img_dev / img_loop stuff so all the arch is booting from ISOs finally. thanks again
02:10 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Heh, nice.
02:11 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Yeah, SwagArch truly pissed me off.
02:11 < triceratux> rofl
02:11 < Psi-Jack> The guy that made SwagArch is obviously not very skilled or knowledgable. Creative though.
02:13 < BenderRodriguez> which distro has the latest version of gnome
02:13 < Psi-Jack> BenderRodriguez: Fedora.
02:14 < triceratux> ^^ thats what the dedoimedo guy says as well https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gnome-3-28-review.html
02:14 < Psi-Jack> Well, Fedora's flagship DE is their own, Gnome.
02:15 < Psi-Jack> There's a few things I really like about Solus though. As a desktop distro.. It's flat out super easy to work with. It even automatically adds printers it detects in your network, so you can simply just... Start printing.
02:17 < mgolisch> wow thats a compelling feature, i rarely print anything and if i just do it at work
02:17 < Psi-Jack> mgolisch: Heh. My office has like 20 printers. They all showed up ready to go.
02:18 < mgolisch> and they all worked?
02:18 < Psi-Jack> Yes.
02:18 < mgolisch> thats usualy my main problem with cups
02:18 < johnstras> now i have this error with my  ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: YES) with the terminal
02:18 < mgolisch> it installs something but the printers never work
02:19 < mgolisch> or cant do half of what the windows print drivers can
02:19 < Psi-Jack> mgolisch: Yeah. I mean, my office has Brother, HP, Xerox, Epson, etc.. You name it, they probably have it. And yes, they all worked.
02:19 < Psi-Jack> anything Linux supported, of course.
02:19 < dviola> Psi-Jack: nice
02:19 < j3kyl_> a
02:19 < dviola> I should invest in a printer sometime soon, how is brother support on linux?
02:19 < Psi-Jack> dviola: Usually okay. HP is probably best.
02:20 < strive> dviola: http://www.openprinting.org/printers
02:21 < Li> sudoedit /etc/default/locale .. added .. LANG="en_US" LANGUAGE="en_US:en" LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8" changed GUI menus to english but not user default folders names like documents and music
02:21 < Psi-Jack> Solus 4 should be coming out pretty soon as the founder of Solus is working hard on it this weekend. heh
02:21 < Li> anything else to add and change those also to english?
02:21 < swift110> nie Psi-Jack I look forward to it myself
02:21 < dviola> thanks guys
02:21 < Psi-Jack> Another compelling feature is... solbuild's process. It enforces all packages to be chroot built in a clean environment /every single/ time.
02:21 < swift110> I currently have Solus on my t420 and really enjoy it
02:22 < Li> dviola: yw
02:22 < Psi-Jack> And I made 2 packages for Solus in... an hour?
02:22 < jim> I have two machines, one of them, has printing set up to the jetdirect card using port 9100... I'd like the other machine to print to this machine's queue
02:22 < swift110> Psi-Jack: when did you start using Solus
02:22 < Psi-Jack> swift110: Yesterday and today. LOL
02:22 < jim> and I can't get it to work and not sure how to debug it
02:23 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, dinner's about ready, so I'll be heading out.
02:26 < mgolisch> hm looks like its made for idiots
02:27 < prawn> hey, i'm trying to compile software for a kernel with a custom syscall, the target system offers me zero header files to compile against though :/ (it's part of a ctf task, please don't tell me to nag the vendor about header files)
02:27 < Psi-Jack> mgolisch: it's made to work. Simply.
02:27 < mgolisch> the website doesnt even have a package database or something
02:28 < dviola> its and it's mean different things
02:29 < Psi-Jack> mgolisch: That part is annoying yes. It does not have as many packages as debian but it had mostly everything I cared for most.
02:29 < mgolisch> thats not too hard, almost everything has less packages than debian
02:30 < Psi-Jack> Heh
02:30 < Psi-Jack> I plugged my Wacom Intuos with the wireless kit. And it just worked. No distro had done that.
02:31 < Psi-Jack> With the wireless part. Wired they worked usually.
02:33 < mgolisch> guess ill stay with arch for now
02:35 < aaro> the solus developer does good job making "works out of the box" distros, sadly he disappears from time to time and the distro with him, he did another project before solus, don't remember the name though
02:35 < Psi-Jack> I can't wait to see what 4 brings. Better integrated support for snaps and flatpak
02:35 < mgolisch> hm never used those things
02:37 < tips-fedora> Flatpaks but they are slow and break sometimes
02:37 < swift110> oh wow Psi-Jack
02:38 < Psi-Jack> I've used snaps and AppImage so far but not yet flatpak.
02:39 < tips-fedora> I have signal messenger on a flatpak. I've never used snaps
02:39 < triceratux> well ive got 3 xfce arch isos booting from grub2. cant believe i hadnt weeded that out of the wiki yet http://pastebin.centos.org/847806/raw/
02:40 < slimetrap> i am making a present for a cute girl and the idea is that it's a little box that you can line-in stuff through aux and it outputs visualization on hdmi for whatever is line-in... so TLDR a music visualizer box
02:41 < slimetrap> but rn i'm comparing various visualizers. i got winamp 2.95 listening on line-in with visualizations working :)
02:41 < Bushman> heyo!
02:41 < Psi-Jack> Snaps are nice but the sandbox it does bites me because I have stuff in my home dir symlinked to /mnt/storage and they won't work in snaps.
02:41 < Bushman> who's good with keyboards and scancodes?
02:41 < Bushman> i have a bluetooth controller that works like a mouse/keyboard thingamajig
02:41 < Bushman> and it has some exotic scancodes i can't identify:
02:42 < Bushman> https://imgur.com/a/oOQca99
02:42 < Bushman> the 3xx range
02:42 < Bushman> any ideas what those could be?
02:43 < swift110> sup triceratux
02:48 < slimetrap> honestly i think like the trickiest part will be forcing the visualizer to open when winamp autostarts, making it listen to line-in, and tricking the visualizer to be "fullscreen"
02:49 < tips-fedora> write a simple script to start the visualizer when winamp starts
02:50 < slimetrap> that's what im working on figuring out now
02:51 < slimetrap> it may be that winamp 2.95 had no such scriptability
02:52 < tips-fedora> can you either rollback or compile a custom version?
02:52 < slimetrap> http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?t=191641&page=7
02:52 < slimetrap> oh whoah
02:55 < strive> Did I hear winamp?
02:56 < dviola> xmms was better
02:57 < tips-fedora> What if you just gave the girl a riced arch box with cava?
03:05 < Ameisen> Interesting. Enabling transparent huge pages causes segmentation faults when building some things
03:12 < Psi-Jack> mgolisch: Fear the Solus eh? Hehe
03:12 < Psi-Jack> I'll be seeing how it fairs in stability. Arch seriously sucks at that.
03:12 < blaster> Hey could anyone help me diagnose a connection issue with iptables?
03:13 < blaster> I'm adding some basic rules to permit connections to postgresql, but when I add the rules and then restart, remote connections to pgsql begin timing out.
03:13 < blaster> The rules are pretty basic. https://pastebin.com/6VRUUXF5
03:13 < Drakonan> can you turn on logging and see if anything is getting dropped
03:15 < blaster> Which daemon do you think I need to log?  I tried following the logs before and was seeing nothing.
03:15 < blaster> Kernel log and syslog that is./
03:16 < Drakonan> i mean if its specific to iptables cant you log drops
03:16 < Drakonan> if it works without and doesnt with you've already pretty much nailed WHERE its at
03:16 < Muimi> In ubuntu, I plug in a second display via HDMI, D2.  D2 shows the ubuntu desktop with nothing else, and the cursor cannot go into it.  So, I went to display and set D2 as the primary display.  D2 then shows a menu bar, but the cursor still cannot access D2.
03:16 < Drakonan> so just add "log" to the drop and find where iptables logs log
03:17 < blaster> I'm trying it, just need to find the flags for that.
03:18 < Drakonan> edit your iptables file and add log the drop rule
03:18 < Drakonan> to the*
03:19 < mgolisch> Muimi: make sure you move the cursor to the correct direction, the display thing should show how the displays are organized/oriented
03:19 < mgolisch> also what desktop are you using?
03:21 < Muimi> Mate.
03:21 < blaster> is there a way to follow dmesg logs?
03:21 < Pentode> i remember another user having a problem like that with an nvidia card
03:22 < revel> dmesg -w
03:22 < Muimi> thanks that worked
03:22 < Muimi> i was trying to slide up because the monitor is above, but i should have slid right
03:22 < blaster> I didn't even try connecting to pgsql yet for a test, and my log is already filled with this, https://pastebin.com/LFnTyikX
03:22 < Muimi> so, the cursor also has this "delayed stop"?
03:23 < blaster> Is someone trying to brute force my DB?
03:23 < Muimi> It's as if the cursor is decelerating.
03:23 < Pentode> Muimi, some desktop environments have a setting to add resistance when moving to another desktop
03:23 < blaster> Looks like lo traffic, no?
03:24 < Drakonan> having a lot of dns drops too
03:24 < Drakonan> maybe it cant resolve anymore?
03:24 < blaster> What does that mean?
03:24 < blaster> It's a DB server I just configured recently.
03:24 < Drakonan> port 53 is dns so if it cant find out the ip of the sql server to resolve it may not connect to it :)
03:25 < blaster> Inbound connections on port 53?
03:25 < Psi-Jack> blaster: is your database publicly exposed to the internet?
03:25 < Evidlo> I've got some proprietary binary that can't find libXi.so.6, but I can see it in /usr/lib64.  Shouldn't I be able to do "LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib64 proprietary_binary"
03:26 < mgolisch> Evidlo: is it a 64bit binary?
03:26 < mgolisch> Evidlo: file path/to/binary
03:26 < blaster> Technically it shouldn't be, it should be limiting inbound connections to it's private network, and only allowing passwordless SSH access to the internet.
03:26 < Drakonan> What is the best way to back up a pi?
03:27 < sauvin_> blaster, "technically"?
03:28 < blaster> Technically ;)
03:28 < sauvin> Uh huh.
03:28 < Evidlo> mgolisch (IRC): its actually a shell script with a binary blob inside it
03:29 < blaster> So to alleviate a DNS drop you have to allow inbound connections on port 53 too?
03:29 < Evidlo> mgolisch (IRC): so if its 32bit, I just need the 32bit version of libXi?
03:29 < mgolisch> yes
03:32 < blaster> If I add my rules while the system is running the inbound psql connections are successful, but it's when I restart and it reloads the same rules the connections timeout.  I wonder what's the logic behind that.
03:33 < blaster> It still happens with port 53 allowed.
03:34 < blaster> Nothing showing in logs either with  dmesg | grep DPT=5432
03:36 < blaster> INPUT:DROP:IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=1a:bc:fa:98:bb:c9:30:7c:5e:90:9c:30:08:00 SRC=77.72.88.44 DST=206.189.223.155 LEN=60 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=63 ID=15017 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=60960 DPT=5432 WINDOW=29200 RES=0x00 SYN URGP=0
03:37 < blaster> How do I allow lo 53?
03:40 < Drakonan> anyone know how to fix an expired crl?
03:40 < duper> Is it okay to pass main as the start_routine for pthread_create() ?
03:44 < darkmeson> blaster: do you allow ESTABLISHED,RELATED streams for INPUT, FORWARD, OUTPUT first thing in your ruleset?
03:47 < blaster> darkmeson, I'm going to try that next.
03:48 < blaster> I'm getting a steady stream of inbound 53 drops, and I don't recognize the machine they're originating from.
03:48 < blaster> It's flooding the logs.
03:49 < darkmeson> Some sort of brute force attack or a misconfigured stack, probably
03:50 < blaster> SPT=53 DPT=42770
03:50 < blaster> That means a destination port of 42770?  It's constantly changing, is this a port sniff? :)
03:52 < darkmeson> Whichever of SRC= or DST= matches the local system's IP, the corresponding (S|D)PT will contain your local port
03:54 < darkmeson> alternatively, check 'netstat -pnt |grep <port>' for each and see if you can catch an entry for one in-flight
03:54 < blaster> The source IP seems to belong to the cloud provider I use and the SPT is constantly 53, so it must be to do with their DNS hosting.
03:55 < blaster> I don't manage a DNS daemon myself.
03:55 < darkmeson> That's not the relevant thing here
03:56 < darkmeson> If you catch one in-flight, it'll probably have a program name attached, and that yield clues of its own
03:56 < blaster> I tried but there was no output from your command, I tried some of the ports from the logs.
03:57 < darkmeson> Also make sure you resolve the IP back to a hostname and take a good look at it if you haven't
03:57 < darkmeson> Most DNS traffic is so highly temporary that there wouldn't be unless you caught it at just the right time
03:57 < darkmeson> As opposed to, say, a http/1.1 connection
03:59 < blaster> You sure it's not relevant? Someone else pointed out that the inbound pg connections could be timing out due to a DNS issue and those dmesg drops have 53 as the SPT.
04:02 < darkmeson> Well, yes. If you're blocking DNS then you'd see a flurry of connections as it tried in vain to resolve the address
04:02 < darkmeson> but you surely would know the address of your own configured DNS servers, right?
04:02 < blaster> Well I fixed it somehow :O
04:03 < blaster> I use the DNS control panel at my provider, which I assume is run on one of their machines which I don't know the hostname of.
04:03 < darkmeson> that sounds really reassuring
04:04 < blaster> BIND is a bit tedious, no?
04:05 < darkmeson> there's a learning curve, but it's not the most terrible one ever
04:06 < blaster> Don't have enough time as it is. I'm sure it's pretty easy to find out the hostname for the managed option, seeing as how I pay for it.
04:07 < blaster> Maybe when we get a network admin.
04:09 < darkmeson> this was actually more ##networking material btw
04:11 < blaster> Thanks I think the RELATED,ESTABLISHED rule fixed it.
04:12 < darkmeson> glad I could help
04:13 < littlebean> good/decent opensource firewall that's active development?
04:13 < blaster> iptables
04:14 < littlebean> ty
04:14 < blaster> bit of a learning curve but its better than decent
04:15 < littlebean> oh, i forgot too add, filter of something that can be easily set up
04:15 < littlebean> or designed to be set up and work okayish but
04:15 < blaster> #Netfilter
04:15 < littlebean> fine with a curve of configuration
04:15 < littlebean> thanks
04:15 < jim> littlebean, hi... because we're trying to help folks (including very new english speakers) to understand what's going on, I request you spell out ty as thank you
04:16 < littlebean> hmm, im unable to process this atm but I will keep it in mind
04:16 < jim> appreciate that
04:17 < jim> (also appreciate that you didn't use that abbreviation all the time (you said thanks just before I butted in :)
04:17 < littlebean> since this room likely has a lot of programmers I suggest an idea of a acronym bot
04:19 < jim> it probably does have a lot of programmers, and when that kind of talk goes by and they say an acronym I let it go usually, because I figure it's common usage
04:19 < rouji> also, dictionaries are a thing
04:21 < jim> (but, if I notice that there's potential for misunderstanding, I'll ask them to be spelled out)
04:22 < rouji> littlebean: https://firehol.org/ heard good things about this, haven't used it myself yet though
04:23 < Drakonan> easiest way to transfer files from pc yo phone over the wireless?
04:23 < revel> scp
04:23 < rouji> what phone?
04:23 < jim> we've been talking about bringing linuxbot back
04:23 < Drakonan> its a samsung galaxy s8
04:24 < rouji> so android
04:24 < littlebean> yeah, the ideal firewall-os would be one that's specifically designed too learn with, asking this on
04:24 < Drakonan> yep
04:24 < littlebean> netfilter thingy
04:24 < littlebean> channel
04:24 < rouji> I use kdeconnect
04:25 < jim> I dunno if I have bluetooth on this machine, and kdeconnect requires it I believe
04:25 < rouji> nope
04:25 < rouji> does wifi just fine
04:25 < rouji> or adb push over wifi if I don't have that available
04:26 < jim> how do I do it over wifi?
04:26 < rouji> not sure if adb over tcp is a standard android feature, or a lineageos thing
04:26 < jim> apple desktop bus?!
04:26 < rouji> android debug bridge
04:27 < jim> oh ok
04:27 < revel> Alex duck base‽
04:27 < rouji> adb can do it by default, but I don't know if all androids expose that option
04:28 < rouji> scp is an option if you have termux installed or something
04:28 < jim> what do I do to connect? do I need to know the phone's IP?
04:29 < rouji> you'd need to enable it on the phone
04:29 < jim> what's it called? or do you mean adb?
04:29 < rouji> it'll tell you its IP and you can then "adb connect <IP HERE>"
04:29 < jim> I do have termux
04:29 < rouji> I do mean the things that I write
04:30 < rouji> you can run sshd in termux iirc
04:30 < rouji> might need to install the package first
04:31 < jim> is that the normal way of connecting using kdeconnect?
04:31 < rouji> termux and adb have nothing to do with each other or kdeconnect
04:31 < jim> (apart from bluetooth)
04:31 < rouji> kdeconnect does *just work* in a LAN
04:32 < rouji> I'm just listing options of getting files onto an android over wifi
04:33 < jim> looks like I am connected to the wlan
04:34 < jim> how do I start kdeconnect on this machine?
04:34 < revel> jim: `emerge -a kde-misc/kdeconnect`
04:34 < revel> (adjust to fit your distro, ofc)
04:35 < rouji> it has a daemon that starts as soon as anything needs to use it
04:35 < rouji> kdeconnectd or something
04:35 < jim> I'm running debian, I don't think I have ports, and I'm not sure if it's installed, I had to reinstall recently
04:35 < rouji> if you're not using any KDE environment or apps there's also the kdeconnect-cli
04:36 < jim> I am running kde
04:36 < rouji> but in dolphin you can browse the entire phone's filesystem and stuff
04:36 < rouji> it's really kind of neat
04:37 < jim> says it is installed
04:38 < rouji> app on the phone as well?
04:38 < jim> what's the app called? where is it available from?
04:39 < rouji> kde connect
04:39 < rouji> play store
04:40 < darkmeson> littlebean: you might also want to consider something pf-based like pfsense or vanilla freebsd. It's actually superior to iptables in some respects
04:41 < littlebean> my filter/requirements are: Open source (mandatory), noob/beginer friendly (Highly desired), High security (ideal)
04:42 < jim> one sec
04:43 < revel> `iptables -A INPUT -j DROP` is as high-sec as it gets.
04:43 < darkmeson> It doesn't get more foss than bsd licensing
04:44 < littlebean> im not sure what that means revel
04:44 < littlebean> what's foss & bsd licensing?
04:44 < revel> It drops all incoming packets. Or, well, it appends a rule like that to the INPUT chain.
04:44 < littlebean> sorry
04:44 < littlebean> I always forget about google
04:44 < darkmeson> but if you want easy you'd probably have to use ufw, shorewall, or another distro-specific iptables wrapper
04:45 < littlebean> but it would be nice contextually too ask here
04:45 < darkmeson> Free and Open Source Software
04:45 < littlebean> ahh okay
04:45 < littlebean> bsd is similar or the same as freeware?
04:46 < littlebean> yeah my goal with all my devices eventually is too be if possible entirely open source
04:47 < darkmeson> BSD, MIT, and friends basically say you can do whatever you want with the code, whereas the linux ecosystem is mostly GPL, which is an infectious, fascistic license
04:47 < rouji> dat bait
04:47 < darkmeson> you probably won't notice any difference as a user, but it makes a big difference if you decide to write any code
04:48 < darkmeson> rouji: only for people who don't understand or don't tolerate that people can and do have differing points of view
04:49 < rouji> >##linux
04:49 < rouji> >your stuff is fascistic
04:49 < littlebean> yeah I'm a programmer, which is also why open source is ideal, because i'll eventually run into stuff I'd like to tweak once I become more familiar
04:49 < rouji> k
04:50 < darkmeson> Yes, ##linux. Not ##gnulinux ;)
04:50 < littlebean> but also autistically obsessed with privacy/security, just generally being in control of the devices I own
04:50 < rouji> linux is gpl
04:50 < littlebean> although I'm aware I'll never 100% acheive that unless I make my own hardware from scratch
04:50 < rouji> whatever, I'm not biting
04:50 < littlebean> but at least on a software level it will be nice
04:50 < mwd> littlebean, you might like the stuff purism is making then
04:50 < darkmeson> the userland need not be, however
04:50 < darkmeson> and at least in the case of Android, it isn't
04:51 < rouji> in the case of android, it's shitty software no matter the license
04:51 < littlebean> I would of loved to be informed of this company 2 weeks ago mwd before I spent all my money on a laptop ahahah :P
04:51 < mwd> ahhh yeah bad timing eh
04:51 < darkmeson> littlebean: basically, the GPL forces you as a developer to release your modifications under the GPL too if you distribute them at all
04:52 < mwd> i'm quite looking forward to their upcoming phone
04:52 < littlebean> interesting, that's understandable darkmeson
04:53 < littlebean> any modifications I'd ever make would be quality of life anyway, and if it was a security tweak i wouldn't want too release it
04:53 < mwd> littlebean, if you fix a security thing, it makes sense to share it...
04:53 < littlebean> as it'd most likely just be changing internals so attacking software identifying such software would be stumped a bit more
04:53 < darkmeson> it's mainly a problem if you create a larger project you want released under other terms though
04:53 < rouji> security by obscurity is always the best way
04:53 < littlebean> not fix a security
04:53 < littlebean> just add extra hurdles
04:54 < darkmeson> mainly when you link against the wrong things, which is a big part of the reason some distros don't support static linking
04:54 < mwd> ehhh that's a dangerous game
04:54 < darkmeson> the end result of linking things statically with conflicting licenses is a binary that can't be legally redistributed, obviously
04:56 < darkmeson> that's part of the reason for systems like dkms which allow certain things like the nvidia blob's wrapper code and zfs to be compiled locally rather than shipping them in a normal package
04:57 < jim> it's working... thanks
04:58 < darkmeson> rouji: btw, ironically, Android has a far superior app isolation model to just about anything in traditional Linux space save for distros that make use of hardware virt like Qubes
04:58 < drakonis> qubes runs xen you see
04:59 < rouji> I'm well aware of android internals
04:59 < drakonis> something every distro can do as well
04:59 < rouji> doesn't make it less of a colossal pile of java shite
05:00 < rouji> that's nigh impossible to build without killing yourself in frustration
05:00 < drakonis> have you heard about fuchsia
05:00 < darkmeson> The biggest problem is that they keep making it more and more difficult to cut off network access to apps without having root
05:01 < rouji> their solution for getting LD_PRELOAD to work with zygote was broken for about 4 major versions :V
05:01 < rouji> it makes simple things so needlessly stupid
05:01 < darkmeson> Although with root one has access to tools like XPrivacy, which afaik there's still no equivalent for in GNU/Linux
05:01 < darkmeson> drakonis: I have, and it concerns me greatly
05:01  * darkmeson bets anything it'll ultimately take away the concept of root entirely
05:02 < darkmeson> rouji: as opposed to systemd, or pulseaudio, or btrfs, or...?
05:02 < darkmeson> you get the idea
05:02 < rouji> xprivacy is hardly a "feature" of android
05:02 < rouji> you can run a normal linux without any of those 3 easily
05:03 < darkmeson> Right. It's a wrapper around kernel facilities that GNU/Linux distros could've availed themselves of a long time ago but didn't
05:03 < rouji> maybe nobody cared to do it
05:03 < rouji> it's open source, DIY if you need to
05:03 < darkmeson> you can, but you get no interactive prompts when something attempts a connect() or other restricted syscall
05:03 < electrosys> i found a frame buffer web browser that will do images, w3m + w3m-img
05:04 < darkmeson> electrosys: there's also surf
05:06 < darkmeson> you could also use directvnc to connect to a local vncserver session or a graphical session on another host
05:07 < darkmeson> rouji: and that wasn't even remotely the point in any case
05:07 < Padawan> Hello, is it possible to mount a file.img made from an hfs filesystem? i have been trying to [sudo mount -o loop file.img /path/to] but i have been getting this error: [wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/loop0, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.]
05:08 < darkmeson> it's ironic that Android can have better security, more easily, than the GNU/Linux distros that have a decade or better of lead time on it
05:08 < rouji> if you could only run java crap on normal linux, it'd probably be easier to implement something like that
05:08 < michaelrose> the general way linux users are secure is in not installing malware in the first place
05:08 < darkmeson> Padawan: 'modprobe hfs' and/or 'modprobe hfsplus' maybe
05:09 < rouji> that's also a good point
05:09 < michaelrose> not connecting to a market full of malware and sufficiently isolating it to avoid infection
05:09 < rouji> linux usually doesn't preinstall spyware
05:09 < rouji> except ubuntu occasionally lol
05:09 < michaelrose> or ship with official spy apps that you aren't allowed to remove
05:09 < michaelrose> or you know keep you from having full access to your machine in the first place
05:09 < darkmeson> rouji: you keep saying java, but it's not really java, and that's not "all it can run"
05:10 < rouji> it mostly does though
05:10 < darkmeson> michaelrose: that's not really true given that many foss apps and distros have been caught phoning home without permission too
05:10 < rouji> just saying if you invent a high level API all apps have to use, it's easier to do those things
05:10 < michaelrose> darkmeson, one distro one time
05:10 < darkmeson> that includes Mozilla Firefox
05:11 < michaelrose> prove it
05:11 < rouji> things you install on a desktop linux are also more likely to be open source
05:11 < rouji> which is really not the case with the play store
05:11 < rouji> so you'd need to be more careful
05:11 < darkmeson> even opting out of everything leaves it trying to connect to a variety of mozilla addresses until you go into about:config and wipe the values from the relevant keys
05:11 < michaelrose> I'm pretty sure I know what you are talking about regarding firefox and equally sure you are confused
05:12 < michaelrose> are you talking about it looking for updates?
05:12  * darkmeson mostly only installs from F-Droid
05:12 < rouji> good for you then
05:12 < michaelrose> the problem is that fdroid doesn't have every app you might need to make productive use of your phone
05:13 < darkmeson> michaelrose: no. settings, pocket, the new tiles advertising things, safe browsing, and others
05:13 < darkmeson> I don't remember which were nuisances since I just immediately kill them all on each new profile anymore
05:14 < rouji> I mainly avoid FF because it's a crashy POS lately
05:14 < michaelrose> lol what?
05:15 < michaelrose> seems to work ok on linux mint funtoo and manjaro
05:15 < darkmeson> rouji: "lately"?
05:15 < rouji> lately more than usual
05:15 < revel> rouji: Do you have any sandboxing going on?
05:15 < rouji> esp. when closing tabs playing media
05:15 < darkmeson> michaelrose: you probably don't use extensions
05:15 < michaelrose> what version and have you tried with a fresh profile?
05:15 < rouji> no idea, I don't have any FF going on
05:16 < rouji> 59 was the latest I tried
05:16 < revel> Probably not what I was thinking of then.
05:16 < rouji> and I'm not killing my profile just because the devs are incompetent
05:16 < rouji> I'm using qutebrowser now and quite happy
05:17 < darkmeson> I cloned my profile for Riot and run it by itself, and Firefox still manages to hang for several minutes every once in a while and also slowly leaks memory
05:17 < michaelrose> 60 is when they deployed quantum, at present I'm down to 3 extensions on one machine and 5 on the other
05:18 < darkmeson> That's on Firefox 52 through 60
05:18 < michaelrose> rouji, if the bug exists only in your profile or addons you've added why would that make the devs incompetent?
05:18 < rouji> because the same stuff worked fine a few versions ago?
05:18 < michaelrose> maybe that means the addon devs are incompetent?
05:19 < michaelrose> and you have incompetently installed their incompetent work?
05:19 < rouji> noscript and ublock, nothing else
05:19 < rouji> I'm not an addon hoarder
05:20 < darkmeson> michaelrose: addon devs shouldn't be able to adversely influence the browser to begin with. that's kind of the problem
05:20 < michaelrose> anyway the logical thing to test would be to install latest stable with a fresh profile and see if it works as expected
05:20 < michaelrose> darkmeson, they will be vastly less able to with web extenions
05:20 < rouji> and at least the media tab closing thing I've heard many people complain about
05:20 < michaelrose> old school addons are defunct as of 60
05:20 < darkmeson> it also doesn't seem to enforce any ordering so extensions have a tendency to stomp all over each other, deadlock, and just generally behave erratically
05:21 < darkmeson> michaelrose: except that's not been the case. 60 has the same problems
05:21 < michaelrose> darkmeson, what problem, what version, what OS?
05:22 < revel> All of them, the first commercially released version from 20 years ago, HP-UX.
05:22 < darkmeson> my mandatory extensions are umatrix, ublock, noscript, scriptsafe, privacy badger, https everywhere, cookie autodelete or self-destructing cookies, and now a couple container tabs extensions
05:22 < rouji> yep, just crashed the same way on 60
05:23 < rouji> so that doesn't seem to have helped anything
05:23 < notmike> um, wat
05:23 < darkmeson> michaelrose: all irrelevant. it happens everywhere I've tried it
05:24 < michaelrose> the common factor would seem to be you then
05:24 < rouji> the common factor among the people I've been talking to seems to be firefox
05:24 < michaelrose> any bug which caused firefox to crash everywhere would seem logically to be easy to reproduce and fix
05:24 < darkmeson> the common factor is the extensions, which I explained actually IS a problem with the design
05:24 < michaelrose> I recently found a frustrating issue was caused by some css I had pasted into userchrome.css
05:25 < darkmeson> it doesn't crash for me. that's rouji
05:25 < darkmeson> in my case it hangs for a few minutes despite ample resources and none of the usual issues that cause that sort of thing, and it leaves a single main process pegging a core while everything else is otherwise idle
05:26 < michaelrose> can you reproduce this issue with a fresh profile and no addons?
05:26 < michaelrose> note you don't have to lose your present profile to test this
05:26 < darkmeson> inspecting that process yields a flurry of futex() calls, which means something is locked and something else is spinning its wheels trying to gain access, which is usually extension-related ime
05:26 < drakonis> darkmeson, why is systemd such a bad thing
05:26 < drakonis> or pulseaudio or btrfs or whatever's a new cool thing
05:27 < drakonis> that solves very real problems
05:27 < darkmeson> that would be moot since I'd never use a profile without the critical addons
05:27 < rouji> btrfs because bugs
05:27 < drakonis> what is the argument against systemd
05:27 < michaelrose> firefox --profileManager is a tool to create and temporarily switch to a blank profile
05:27 < michaelrose> btrfs because the first thing you want a filesystem to do is not lose your files
05:27 < darkmeson> the default browser configuration is so highly insecure that any random third party can run arbitrary code on your system, even if minimally sandboxed
05:27 < michaelrose> pulseaudio because for fucking years it was broken in weird ways
05:28 < drakonis> it isn't broken in weird ways anymore
05:28 < rouji> feature-wise, btrfs would be really nice
05:28 < drakonis> btrfs is getting better
05:28 < michaelrose> note I now use it and like its network transparency
05:28 < drakonis> why the hell are people still against pulseaudio today
05:28 < drakonis> it isn't broken anymore
05:28 < drakonis> why still bitch about it
05:28 < rouji> I need really low-latency audio sometimes
05:28 < mwd> they're still using a version from 11 years ago
05:28 < darkmeson> and of course firefox does crash if you try to restrict it from accessing anything sensitive and fingerprintable  via apparmor, selinux, or similar
05:28 < michaelrose> drakonis, the lead developer thinks he is smarter than he really is and is an asshole
05:28 < drakonis> the lead developer
05:29 < drakonis> is on systemd
05:29 < drakonis> he isn't working on pulseaudio anymore
05:29 < drakonis> and that isn't an argument against pulseaudio or systemd
05:29 < michaelrose> he also does stupid things and doesn't take ownership of his mistakes
05:29 < drakonis> again, its not an argument
05:29 < darkmeson> drakonis: btrfs still self-corrupts far too much of the time
05:29 < rouji> also pulse still sometimes just refuses to work for me
05:29 < michaelrose> Using your software implies trusting your work
05:29 < michaelrose> I
05:29 < drakonis> i still haven't run into pulseaudio issues
05:30 < michaelrose> I'll check back on btrfs in several years but unless openzfs stands still I can't imagine btrfs will ever be a better choice
05:30 < darkmeson> I use it, but only in VMs where I can rollback if and when it inevitably ruins itself, because the btrfsck tool only causes more damage more often than not
05:31 < darkmeson> I've actually never had an issue with pulseaudio since it facilitated my use of bluetooth headphones, but systemd is another story
05:31 < michaelrose> I generally am against systemd because I like things where I can understand the parts and swap out part a for part b where part b is better suited
05:31 < darkmeson> michaelrose: zfs will be killer if anyone ever gets around to writing the bpr code
05:32 < michaelrose> despite being divided into chunks systemd isn't designed to be modular nor to make it reasonable for you to use different tools with it
05:32 < darkmeson> They did integrate some code a while back that enabled removing vdevs or something, but I found the inability to shrink a pool far too limiting for general use
05:33 < darkmeson> michaelrose: that's actually one of two of my points of contention with it
05:33 < Sabotender> if I made an image using dd into a file, can I open the image if I mount it as an iso file?
05:33 < michaelrose> my needs are simple I think its sufficient for me to enable swapping out disks for bigger disks to upgrade
05:34 < drakonis> darkmeson, bpr code?
05:34 < darkmeson> I shouldn't have to know or care about systemd services if I have other things taking care of it. systemd-journald is particularly bad because it's required and storage can't be totally disabled if you expect to use a traditional syslog
05:34 < revel> Sabotender: If nothing goes wrong, sure.
05:34 < darkmeson> Sabotender: of course
05:34 < drakonis> syslog only logs things when running so
05:34 < drakonis> idgi
05:35 < revel> I think it may benefit from an fsck first if it's from a running system.
05:35 < darkmeson> mount -o loop /path/to/file /mnt/iso
05:35 < revel> (mounted part, that is)
05:35 < Sabotender> revel: but its a complete disc image?
05:35 < michaelrose> systemd seems to be part of a change to a bunch of tightly integrated components that you aren't supposed to swap out
05:36 < michaelrose> which I find undesirable as I have always enjoyed picking parts that seem most useful
05:36 < drakonis> michaelrose, this argument about modularity is pointless
05:36 < darkmeson> I'm not even sure that -o loop is required on current-day distros anymore, but it doesn't hurt to add it
05:36 < drakonis> meaningless
05:36 < revel> You still can, with, uhh... Something to do with loop devices.
05:36 < drakonis> and isn't an OS like that?
05:36 < michaelrose> darkmeson, like what?
05:36 < revel> You could also dd out the specific partitions into seperate files, I guess.
05:37 < drakonis> btw
05:37 < drakonis> you might want to try xfs in a year or so
05:37 < drakonis> with stratis
05:37 < revel> Right, losetup.
05:37 < drakonis> it is nearing zfs levels of power
05:37 < michaelrose> darkmeson, it isn't even released
05:37 < michaelrose> drakonis, it isn't even released
05:37 < michaelrose> sorry
05:37 < drakonis> it is released
05:37 < drakonis> not 1.0 though
05:37 < drakonis> but its available
05:38 < drakonis> i am talking however about upcoming xfs features
05:38 < michaelrose> let me just move all my data to something that isn't mature
05:38 < drakonis> stratis isn't an filesystem
05:38 < Sabotender> well. windows can't open disc images created by DD
05:38 < Sabotender> BOO
05:38 < darkmeson> drakonis: bpr, Block Pointer Rewrite. It's code required to enable zfs to remove vdevs, totally remove deduplication without a wipe and reload, shrink pools, and various other things
05:38 < michaelrose> its a set of tools for managing different layers
05:38 < Sabotender> 'disc is corrupted'
05:39 < mwd> Sabotender, yeah just stick with a real os
05:39 < darkmeson> xfs isn't actually bad, and it's even better today since  one can batch deduplicate extents with tools like duperemove
05:39 < darkmeson> it has the same problem of not being shrinkable though
05:39 < revel> Sabotender: If you didn't notice it before, losetup.
05:39 < drakonis> xfs is getting significant features hmm
05:40 < darkmeson> Sabotender: try a tool like winimage
05:40 < Sabotender> mwd: tell all the game design companies to compile their games for linux, and I will
05:40 < revel> They'd have to do a bit more than just compile it for Linux.
05:40 < mwd> all game companies: compile your games for linux
05:40 < mwd> ok it's done
05:41 < revel> Quite a few of them like writing games in C#, for one.
05:41 < mwd> im pretty sure they monitor this channel so just give em a few days, can't expect miracles on weekends..
05:41 < mwd> doesn't steam have gobs of linux games these days? and wine is getting more and more capable
05:41 < michaelrose> it will be 1.0 for fedora 29
05:41 < drakonis> yes it does
05:41 < darkmeson> Sabotender: looking into dokan might give you some leads too, or try ##windows
05:41 < drakonis> wine is extremely good though
05:42 < drakonis> Sabotender, getting something to run on linux isn't just "let's just recompile the binary for another platform"
05:42 < drakonis> its involved as fuck
05:42 < darkmeson> Steam USES wine for a lot of their games afaik
05:42 < michaelrose> so stratis will be 1.0 for fedora by early november but I don't use fedora so maybe useful by 2019
05:43 < drakonis> no steam doesn't
05:43 < Sabotender> drakonis: oh I know it, its just my defacto response every time some linux user tells me to dump windows for linux
05:43 < michaelrose> interesting but not compelling
05:43 < drakonis> by the time it lands outside of fedora
05:43 < Sabotender> 99% of the PC games I play are designed for windows. its NOT. MY. Fault.
05:43 < drakonis> ah yes
05:43 < michaelrose> Sabotender, is gaming the primary thing you use your pc for?
05:43 < Sabotender> I use linux when I need to write my own code
05:43 < drakonis> hmmm
05:43 < drakonis> got a problem right here
05:44 < Sabotender> michaelrose: and general web browsing and video streaming, aye
05:44 < drakonis> uhhh
05:44 < sauvin> I still use Windows because of legacy engineering software.
05:44 < drakonis> you know you can do those other things on linux right
05:44 < mwd> sounds like you want linux in a virtualbox under windows
05:44 < mwd> (or the other way round)
05:44 < drakonis> and wine staging can cover about every game at this point
05:44 < rouji> or a windows gaming VM using pcie passthrough
05:44 < michaelrose> I've never found the idea of running windows + linux in a vm that compelling you get all the disadvantages of both OS + overhead of virtualization
05:44 < darkmeson> with vulkan being the apparent successor to opengl and directx both, and games supporting it, it should be getting easier and easier to game on Linux
05:45 < Sabotender> mwd: naw, virtualbox is horrible for fast 2d/3d rendering.
05:45 < oiaohm> drakonis: not at this stage.    wine has run into issue with steam dropping XP support.
05:45 < drakonis> qemu kvm
05:45 < Sabotender> I need native linux, because I am a game programmer
05:45 < michaelrose> I think dual boot makes more sense
05:45 < Sabotender> I tri boot actually
05:45 < sauvin> It's true I can't game in a VBox VM.
05:45 < mwd> doal boot is disruptive ;/
05:45 < Sabotender> windows, linux, OS X
05:45 < michaelrose> you could hibernate to avoid losing state I would think
05:45 < darkmeson> That's aside from Microsoft having open sourced .net core and allegedly starting to work with the Mono people
05:45 < Sabotender> all three operating systems have their own discreet hard drive
05:46 < revel> Sabotender: Might as well stick FreeDOS and a *BSD into that mix too.
05:46 < Sabotender> I don't do partitions. too much trouble
05:46 < mwd> lol @ discreet
05:46 < Sabotender> *multiple partitions on a single drive
05:46 < drakonis> oiaohm, has it?
05:46 < Sabotender> oops, did I mean discrete?
05:46 < Sabotender> lol
05:46 < michaelrose> whats hard about partitions?
05:46 < revel> Me.
05:47 < sauvin> Sabotender, yes, you meant "discrete". :D
05:47 < mwd> managing grub i suppose
05:47 < oiaohm> drakonis: its the chrome browser sandbox like problems.
05:47 < michaelrose> when it helpfully offers to delete everything if you click on your linux partition just say "no"
05:47 < Sabotender> windows boot loader is nototious for not playing nice with grub and chameleon
05:47 < revel> Chameleon?
05:47 < rouji> Sabotender: it only kills grub when you install windows
05:47 < oiaohm> drakonis: once you get to steam running on windows 7 or latter steam is using sandboxing around games to run them in like containers.
05:47 < mwd> yeah i dont trust windows to do the right thing
05:47 < rouji> after that it's fine
05:48 < Sabotender> revel: chameleon is a boot loader for OSX
05:48 < oiaohm> drakonis: and that requires nt native code stuff that wine does not support yet.
05:48 < revel> rouji: I've heard it kills it after most updates as well.
05:48 < drakonis> Sabotender, are you using BIOS or EFI
05:48 < rouji> revel: hasn't been my experience
05:48 < drakonis> oiaohm, HELLO REACTOS
05:48 < rouji> not for many years
05:48 < oiaohm> drakonis: reactos does not support it yet either.
05:48 < Sabotender> drakonis: UEFI for osx, legacy for windows and linux
05:48 < rouji> even the garbage fire that is windows 10 doesn't mess with the bootloader on major updates
05:48 < drakonis> that's your problem
05:49 < drakonis> windows 10 isn't a garbage fire
05:49 < drakonis> 8 was
05:49 < rouji> yes it is
05:49 < Sabotender> im not a big fan of uefi, sorry
05:49 < revel> Well, I'm definitely getting conflicting reports then.
05:49 < michaelrose> I don't know how to make zfs + grub work with eufi as of yet and only 1 of 3 machines supports it so oh well
05:49 < Sabotender> legacy is just so much more simple to manage
05:49 < justsomeguy> It's just a different kind of garbage fire. Garbage fire as a service.
05:49 < oiaohm> drakonis: there is only 6 versions of Windows 10 some are way better behaved than others.
05:49 < darkmeson> ReactOS is about as stable as XP at this point, but that's not saying much either
05:49 < oiaohm> drakonis: that is 6 supported versions of windows 10.
05:50 < rouji> try managing a big domain full of win10 devices
05:50 < oiaohm> rouji: and I bet they are not all win10 enterprise.
05:50 < michaelrose> is that 6 including the newer workstation sku?
05:50 < rouji> they are as well
05:50 < oiaohm> rouji: so are driving you nuts with random failures.
05:50 < rouji> not me personally, but coworkers
05:51 < Sabotender> I have had lots and lots of uefi linux builds just inexplicably refuse to boot. when I switched back to legacy, that stopped happening
05:51 < Sabotender> lots and lots
05:51 < rouji> having to put up with the nonsensical changes they introduce all the time is maddening
05:51 < darkmeson> michaelrose: if you do full-disk zfs, it automatically creates an EFI system partition. it's mostly just a matter of putting a vfat partition there, mounting it to /boot/efi, and 'grub(2)-install --target=x86_64-efi /dev/sdX'
05:51 < Sabotender> i wonder if any of you actually remember me coming in here complaining about that
05:52 < rouji> how many separate control panels does the current version of win10 have? 5?
05:52 < drakonis> two
05:52  * darkmeson has had no uefi problems that weren't of his own making
05:53 < drakonis> uefi doesn't have any of those issues anyways
05:53 < darkmeson> well, apart from having to boot all the way into windows several times just to access the setting so I could boot linux and install grub anyway
05:54 < rouji> different policy things are also spread all over the place
05:54 < rouji> with the things pertaining to store apps being always horribly broken
05:54 < michaelrose> darkmeson, in theory but it didn't seem to work for me
05:55 < darkmeson> then it turned out that that particular system had a Cherrytrail SoC, so most of the functionality didn't work anyway
05:55 < michaelrose> which is to say it didn't actually boot because there are additional steps + complications with the drive actually being a luks device
05:55 < rouji> loud swearing definitely has increased significantly in our company since windows 10
05:55 < darkmeson> another Baytrail one went fine though
05:56 < justsomeguy> Operating systems are just generally a mess in terms of user experience, unless you limit the interface that users are allowed to use severely.
05:56 < justsomeguy> Like chrome os does.
05:56 < rouji> unix is a lot less messy imo
05:57 < michaelrose> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_editions lists 10 possible editions
05:57  * justsomeguy just tries to embrace the mess, and use the right tool for the job.
05:57 < rouji> not least because you can actually find out what makes things not work when they not work
05:57 < drakonis> you're complaining too much
05:58 < drakonis> how many of those editions are relevant to you?
05:58 < drakonis> the two that are remotely relevant to you are the basic ones
05:58 < drakonis> there's editions made for specific devices
05:58 < rouji> ran into a weird obscure windows bug? well tough tits
05:58 < rouji> no such thing as complaining too much
06:00 < veek> is there a cmd to lookup a word in the system dict
06:00 < veek> i just want a t/f value
06:00 < veek> 1/0
06:01 < darkmeson> you don't even get rdp access anymore unless you pay for one of the high end versions
06:01 < rouji> what system dict?
06:01 < veek> pspell
06:01 < drakonis> veek, apropos?
06:01 < veek> ah Oo thanks!
06:01 < justsomeguy> There is /usr/share/dict, a text file with a list of words. You can grep for your word in there, and if it's not found, grep will exit with 1.q
06:02 < justsomeguy> (It's not always present, though. You might have to install a package.)
06:02 < justsomeguy> Correction, the path is /usr/share/dict/words.
06:02 < darkmeson> or 'echo word |aspell list' if you just want to know if it's misspelled
06:03 < veek> darkmeson, nope i neede a somewhat quick way.. basically i got a string and i want to get rid of rubbish text like 'the' and 'in'
06:04 < Sabotender> see this is why I need to open this image in linux because linux generally ignores windows file permissions
06:08 < darkmeson> Sabotender: it has to since there's no easy way to automatically import windows acls and so forth
06:08 < darkmeson> you CAN modify a lot of the behaviors when using ntfs volumes with mount-time options though. 'man ntfs-3g'
06:10 < Sabotender> is there a way to permanantly move driver files to the linux disc so they will load? I need exfat, for one
06:12 < Sabotender> im tired of having to connect my iphone and downloading the .deb file
06:13 < darkmeson> the exfat implementations are fuse-based, I believe
06:15 < darkmeson> that means it wouldn't be drivers but daemons, and you'd have to explain a bit more for anyone to help you, probably
06:16 < Sabotender> I think what I need to find out is how I can access the..hmm. I could always load linux on my laptop and drop the needed files into a folder of the live boot disc
06:16 < Sabotender> would that work?
06:16 < Sabotender> let me try that, brb, booting into linux
06:19 < Sabotender> debian, baby! ;-)
06:19 < darkmeson> you could always just use a vm
06:20 < Sabotender> oh lord thats too much work, lol
06:20 < darkmeson> how hard is it to attach a file to a vm and boot it from a live cd image?
06:21 < Sabotender> well, because I am doing this from my laptop, which has a fully installed and configured linux build
06:21 < Sabotender> (with internet)
06:21 < darkmeson> hell, you can even do it from your browser these days. https://copy.sh/v86/
06:22 < darkmeson> Actually, if you're careful not to touch anything the running OS is using, you can boot the secondary OS from within a vm too
06:23 < darkmeson> You either pass it the whole disk or just partitions, but Linux doesn't care either way since most everything uses uuid magic anymore
06:26 < Sabotender> why cant I create any directories or modify files on this ubuntu install USB disc? its very frusturating
06:26 < darkmeson> probably because it's a loopback-mounted squashfs image
06:27 < Sabotender> well I hate that
06:27 < darkmeson> you can convert to to an ext3 image with the same name but the ext3 extension iirc, and then you WOULD be able to modify it
06:28 < Sabotender> I am not sure how to do that, linux is just allowing me to mount it
06:29 < Muimi> If I want to add a new harddrive to my Ubuntu PC and transfer the entire hdd to the new hdd, what can I do?
06:29 < Sabotender> ah its of file type 'isofs'
06:29 < darkmeson> you can also dump the contents of the squashfs, make modifications, and re-squash it back into place, but that's actually a bit more complex and time-consuming
06:29 < autopsy> Muimi, you could use dd.
06:30 < autopsy> You'd need to use mksquashfs and mkisofs.
06:33 < electrosys> im trying to build a mutt macro, and it works as expected but as the end of my macro, I am asked if i would like to purge deleted message. how do I answer yes to this automaticly?
06:43 < j3kyl_> a
07:09 < Euph0ria> Does Qaz give immunity to immolation explosions?
07:27 < darkmeson> Sabotender: it seems like there's a special label or something you can set on a local partition to have it be picked up automatically and used as persistent storage
07:27 < darkmeson> You'd might have to check the wiki or the ubuntu channels for more on that though
07:27 < darkmeson> Muimi: or clonezilla
07:30 < pocketmon> if [ -z $1 ]; then    <— what it mean?
07:32 < [R]> pocketmon: [ is the test program, you can read the test man page, or run 'help test'
07:32 < pocketmon> can you teach it directly to me?
07:32 < pocketmon> [R]: ?
07:33 < [R]> i could... but you could read the documentation as well
07:33 < pocketmon> i want to learn it from you :(
07:33 < [R]> and i want you to learn it from the documentation
07:35 < iodev> pocketmon: I can tutor you
07:35 < iodev> PM me, pocketmon
07:35 < prte> what is primary and extended partition when i use the fdisk command
07:36 < sauvin> prte, under traditional DOS MBR, you can have only four primary partitions, but you can have umpteen logical partitions in an extended partition.
07:37 < prte> sauvin: also the purpose of using fdisk and lvm are they same?
07:39 < Sveta> when rsync restores file ownership, does it use user ids or usernames?
07:40 < sauvin> prte, I can't talk about lvm because I've never used it.
07:40 < prte> sauvin: also can we increase the limit for primary partition somewhere?
07:41 < sauvin> prte, under MBR, no. It's a consequence of the way the MBR is structured.
07:41 < prte> is there any other alternative to MBR?
07:43 < iodev> prte: yep, GPT
07:44 < darkmeson> Sveta: uids afair
07:45 < prte> iodev: MBR is used in GRUB and GPT is used in UEFI? am i right here?
07:46 < iodev> prte: :D
07:47 < iodev> BIOS not GRUB :D
07:47 < Psi-Jack> prte: Not quite.
07:47 < Psi-Jack> GRUB works in both MBR and UEFI.
07:47 < prte> sorry I am have less working experience in disk volumes and boot loaders
07:47 < iodev> prte: no problem, but you did make my day, thank you :D
07:48 < Psi-Jack> MBR can be used in both msdos and GPT partition table structures, while UEFI only works in GPT.
07:49 < darkmeson> do you guys have any indicators how that prte user is connected?
07:49 < darkmeson> I don't even see any of their messages for some reason
07:49 < Psi-Jack> darkmeson: Web Gateway.
07:50 < darkmeson> That's interesting
07:50 < darkmeson> I was figuring it was some other sort of bridge to another network
07:51 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
07:51 < Psi-Jack> There in this channel, on this network.
07:51 < darkmeson> Matrix' IRC bridge must just be being quirky atm
07:51 < darkmeson> Thanks
07:52 < iodev> darkmeson: why use Matrix
07:52 < iodev> I just use a ZNC, it's much better
07:52 < darkmeson> Psi-Jack: hello again, for the first time, btw
07:52 < Psi-Jack> iodev: Why not just use direct IRC? It works so directly.
07:53 < darkmeson> iodev: because it bridges to tons of IRC networks, and also because I've had bad luck trying to find a winning combination that would get to freenode through tor on an android device
07:54 < Psi-Jack> Tor. Bleg.. That's the flaw.
07:54 < iodev> darkmeson: I mean hosting your own ZNC
07:55 < iodev> sharing, bah humbug!
07:56 < darkmeson> In fact, I have to do absolutely nothing special to connect to Matrix over Tor, and I was even able to register without having to find a workaround for the serious limitation in the registration process for Tor users
07:56 < darkmeson> Actually, that's the other interesting part
07:56 < iodev> darkmeson: and do you trust TOR?
07:57 < darkmeson> You get a bouncer essentially "for free" due to the way Matrix handles messages
07:57 < darkmeson> so in a way it's kind of like irccloud, except way more Tor-friendly
07:57 < Psi-Jack> And 0% benefit.
07:57 < iodev> darkmeson: free, but is SLA 99.9 guaranteed?
07:57 < iodev> with DigitalOcean I know that when I want to use my bouncer, it's there!
07:58 < iodev> be it day or be it night
07:58 < darkmeson> for my threat model, yes
07:58 < iodev> same for strongswan, the VPN is there
07:59 < prte>  what is the command to find the filesystem type?
07:59 < darkmeson> the problem is that they know who you are, and so does the US government
07:59 < prte> when i do df -h, i see list of partitions, now i want to know what kind of file system these partition use
08:00 < iodev> darkmeson: the US gov is not my fear
08:00 < iodev> i don't want my ISP snooping
08:00 < darkmeson> the latter knowing who you are practically guarantees it to be common knowledge because we already have ample evidence demonstrating how bad they are with keeping secrets
08:00 < darkmeson> ah, there's prte
08:01 < lnnb> prte: cat /proc/mounts   theres probably a nicer program made for this
08:01 < darkmeson> hello :)
08:01 < darkmeson> prte: cat /proc/mounts to see mounted filesystems with types
08:01  * Psi-Jack yawns.
08:01 < prte> thanks lnnb darkmeson
08:01 < iodev> prte: you can also just type "mount"
08:02 < darkmeson> or 'blkid /dev/whatever', or 'file -s -L /dev/whatever'
08:02 < storge> prte: di
08:02 < storge> prte: or, di -x tmpfs to clean it up a little bit
08:02 < prte> storge: di?
08:03 < iodev> there, I'm now hooked up to 802.3 network
08:03 < darkmeson> iodev: it's not mine either. I mainly want to control who can disseminate my real world identity with my pseudonymous identity so I have some level of control over who has how detailed of file on me
08:03 < darkmeson> I can only do that if they can't prove identity, because their inability to prove identity effectively means they'd end up on the losing end of a libel, defamation, or slander case (in theory)
08:03 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm
08:03 < Psi-Jack> Seems flatpak has the same sandboxing issue that snaps have. :/
08:04 < storge>  ~ > di -x tmpfs
08:04 < storge> Filesystem         Mount               Size     Used    Avail %Used  fs Type
08:04 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: You've been messing somewhat with these snaps, flatpaks, appimages haven't you?
08:04 < storge> oops
08:04 < storge> di - advanced df like disk information utility
08:04 < storge> fack
08:05 < darkmeson> of course. they're just containers, not virt
08:05 < storge> what's going on with my copypaste
08:05  * storge goes to see
08:05 < storge> anyway prte di is a df-like info utility, but more better
08:07 < iodev> darkmeson: I don't know I'm no journalist, got nothing so top secret to protect
08:07 < lnnb> lsblk -f will tell you about fs of your unmounted cdrom
08:09 < darkmeson> iodev: it's less about protecting secrets and more about preventing being on the disadvantaged end of the growing information asymmetry. which is literally the term you'd look up if you want to know more, "information asymmetry"
08:09 < storge> +1
08:12 < storge> when your adversary (a government, an advertising agency, whatever) can identify you solely by your gait because of the phone you carry in your wallet, you're at a distinct disadvantage against their surveillance, be it for radical statist or marketing ends. knowing they can do it allows you to decide to take the phone out of your pocket, which is not to say that everyone is out to get you, but that you
08:12 < storge> can make decisions if you understand your threat environment
08:12 < storge> in your pocket*
08:14 < storge> i'm pretty much a vanilla open book, but i still want to avoid the ubiquity of my data to everyone who pays for access--especially when i can't pay for the same access
08:16 < darkmeson> Indeed, and that's information asymmetry in a nutshell
08:17 < darkmeson> anyone so inclined to look further need only look at the headlines over the past several years to realize that all of that "anonymous" data is collecting isn't so anonymous after all
08:19 < lnnb> never trust an os that doesn't come with a text editor
08:19 < darkmeson> people act like I'm going overboard in saying that anything that phones home without explicit user consent is spyware, but that's the point we've come to, even in foss
08:19 < Psi-Jack> Man, whomever said flatpak was slow.... I question: How? It's super fast for me.
08:20 < storge> facebook just admitted it tracks mouse movements. i read years ago that researchers could identify individual humans by their characteristic mouse sweeps and clicks. at some point (in the future or it's already happened), even the public terminal is not anonymous even if you want it to be. [so use your left hand for the mouse while you're at the library, hehe]
08:20 < darkmeson> even a seemingly innocuous set of bug reports and telemetry data might not be so harmless once it's cross-referenced against other data sets
08:20 < lnnb> why else would they need microsecond timer precision in browser JS
08:20 < darkmeson> and of course most of our computing life happens in a browser, so extra "paranoia" over what they're doing is warrant imo
08:21 < prte> i have a root volume, now can i increase the inodes in that volume by using sudo mkfs.ext3 -N 20000 /dev/sdf
08:21 < darkmeson> ScriptSafe actually allows you to inject random delays in keystrokes at least
08:22 < prte> but it says target it busy when i try umounting
08:22 < prte> is there a way i can change the number of inodes for the root volume?
08:22 < darkmeson> it makes for a pretty aggravating user experience at delays high enough to matter, but it's nice to have the option
08:23 < darkmeson> prte: tune2fs
08:23 < storge> darkmeson: a friend of mine duplicated a photo with his own phone that his buddy had taken on a year earlier, just by using the exif to find the spot and orientation. same location, same orientation of the phone, essentially the same photo--but with a different sky.
08:24 < storge> do photo posting sites strip exif data? why would they, when they can sell it to someone, someday, for analytics.
08:26 < prte> darkmeson: can i umount the root volume?
08:27 < darkmeson> prte: hm, maybe not. 'umount /dev/sdf' says it isn't mounted? and there aren't any mounted partitions within it?
08:27 < darkmeson> storge: that's why there's an app on F-Droid called Scrambled EXIF ;)
08:27 < darkmeson> of course, course you have to know to do that first, and there's the rub
08:27 < darkmeson> prte: if by root you mean system root, then no. you'd have to boot from live media or another partition
08:28 < storge> darkmeson: exactly. you don't know what you don't know.
08:28 < prte> darkmeson: no i have only one partition
08:30 < darkmeson> the browser situation is much, much worse than people realize though. you're essentially giving random third parties carte blanche to run arbitrary code in it, and cryptocurrency miners are only the beginning of the exploits people will dream up for asm.js and webassemblies
08:32 < storge> can't infect the computer? turn their browser into a spam relay!
08:33 < darkmeson> prte: wait, maybe you should explain what you're trying to do and why first
08:34 < darkmeson> something isn't adding up
08:34 < prte> darkmeson: all i am trying to do is increasing the inode of root volume by using the tune2fs -I  or mkfs.ext4 -N
08:35 < darkmeson> run an emulator with a small OS payload, find an exploit in some api (USB maybe), then Bob's your uncle
08:36 < darkmeson> the first part of that is already possible, in fact. https://copy.sh/v86/
08:37 < darkmeson> prte: well, you do NOT want to use mkfs on an existing filesystem with data that you want to keep, mounted or otherwise
08:37 < darkmeson> tune2fs would be your only option there
08:37 < darkmeson> If /dev/sdf is your system root as I understand it to be, that means you'd have to boot from live media to have it unmounted so that you could use tune2fs on it
08:38 < prte> darkmeson: sure make sense
08:39 < darkmeson> btw, the github for the v86 emulator above. https://github.com/copy/v86
08:41 < darkmeson> People are probably going to get sick of me posting it, but it's the best example I've found of the wonder and horror of JSified code. There are also some interesting games and things if you strip off the /v86
08:41 < prte> can i use this v86 emulator for aws instance
08:43 < darkmeson> If you have a disk image to feed it, probably
08:43 < darkmeson> it'd be local to whoever's system is running the browser that it's running in though
08:44 < darkmeson> and probably not particularly scaleable if it were to be used as any sort of multi-user server
08:45 < darkmeson> it and most JSified code like it CAN be ran on nodejs instead though
08:49 < MacWinner> i'm trying to troubleshoot a weird issue that seems like it's networking. I'm SSH'd into remote server with a couple terminal windows.   occasioanlly one of the windows where I'm using vim to edit a file just basic hangs for a while.. it eventually comes back.  but during this time I am able to ping the server with no packet loss and other  SSH sessions to this same server seem responsive.. any theories on why this is?  the box has no real load on it
08:49 < MacWinner>  either.
08:50 < Dagmar> Interesting
08:50 < Dagmar> What type of "terminal window" are you using?
08:50 < autopsy> MacWinner, maybe the socket went into TIME_WAIT state?
08:50 < autopsy> FIN_WAIT
08:51 < Dagmar> It's vim on the other end.  It should respond to keypresses
08:51 < MacWinner> I'm just ssh'ing in from my Mac using iterm
08:51 < Dagmar> ...and if it went into FIN_WAIT it would be because the connection is closing.
08:51 < Dagmar> I kinda think he'd notice that
08:51 < Dagmar> It _could be_ packet lotss
08:51 < Dagmar> er loss
08:51 < MacWinner> i tried pinging with large packets too
08:51 < Dagmar> The next time it happens, _time it_ to the second
08:52 < MacWinner> i have a ping constantly going
08:52 < MacWinner> 0 loss
08:52 < Dagmar> If it comes up a nice, round value like 300 seconds, then you know it's going to be a retransmit timeout
08:52 < Dagmar> Doesn't matter
08:52 < notmike> Pong
08:52 < darkmeson> It's actual baremetal rather than a vm, and there's nothing in dmesg indicating a driver problem I presume?
08:52 < Dagmar> It only takes _one_ packet to not make it to stall things, especially if they're arriving out of order
08:52 < MacWinner> rt times are 80-120ms. no big spikes
08:52 < MacWinner> hmm.. let me try again
08:52 < MacWinner> maybe i missed it
08:53 < Dagmar> It'll take an obvious and significant number of seconds before the IP stack gets tired of waiting for it and requests it be resent
08:53 < Dagmar> Whether or not you can run a continuous ping to the same host in another window doesn't really matter
08:54 < Dagmar> ...it's also not the greatest of tests since ICMP are handled differently from TCP by basically, everything
08:54 < MacWinner> Dagmar, if this is the issue, any suggestions on how to alleviate it?
08:54 < darkmeson> might also check the dropped packet count on the relevant interface, just in case
08:54 < Dagmar> If you're handy with a sniffer like wireshark you should start logging the traffic on one of your ssh sessions (in both directions) and wait for it to stall
08:54 < Dagmar> The last part of the packet log would explain why the connection stalled
08:54 < MacWinner> darkmeson, oh, interesting.. is that using ifconfig?
08:54 < Dagmar> you'd just have to be handy with reading that arcane output
08:55 < Dagmar> MacWinner: On the off chance that it's *(not* that, there *is* an escape key that can be enabled for ssh
08:55 < MacWinner> yeah, i was going to go to wireshark last.. i use to use it all the time
08:55 < Dagmar> MacWinner: Like, you can bind that to some key you don't use often, and when the connection stalls, you can smack that key and get a prompt that you can use to poke directly at ssh and ask it WTF is going on
08:55 < Dagmar> I doubt it'll reveal much, but it might reveal something screwey
08:56 < darkmeson> yes, ifconfig shows dropped counts
08:56 < Dagmar> MacWinner: It's also altogether possible that someone's dimwitted attempt at firewalling ICMP types they don't recognize is *blocking* the retransmit request
08:56 < darkmeson> presumably some invocation of ip does too, but I haven't gotten that far into it yet
08:57 < Dagmar> ...or that it's blocking a window resize request (which is a lot more common)
08:57 < sauvin> Looks like Bing bit the big one for a while. Way to go, Microsoft!
08:57 < Dagmar> (TCP window, not SIGWINCH)
08:57 < MacWinner> Dagmar, the wireshark output should def get this right?
08:57 < Dagmar> MacWinner: to really play dirty you'd log everythihg for that one session from _both_ ends, then you could actually see which packet didn't arrive
08:58 < Dagmar> On just one end Wireshark should get *ahem* half the picture
08:58 < hexnewbie> sauvin: What did they do?
08:58 < Dagmar> Enough to make a determination if you need to actually look at both ends
08:58 < Dagmar> Just be glad it's not an "organic" problem
08:58 < sauvin> hexnewbie, at the moment, I can't search for anything on it because latency is astronomical.
08:58 < Dagmar> ...like a dog peeing on a distribution amp outside
08:59 < darkmeson> MacWinner: it never hurts to let mtr run for a while either and see what kind of latencies are popping up
08:59 < Dagmar> bing came up immediately here
08:59 < Dagmar> Maybe someone screwed the pooch on their BGP update
08:59 < darkmeson> at the very least it'd give you an idea of the quality of your link
08:59 < Dagmar> (Hilariously, that's the first time I've ever even seen Bing)
08:59 < hexnewbie> sauvin: Hmfp. Searches for me. May be their local balancer?
09:00 < darkmeson> (even if someone is deprioritizing icmp echos, etc)
09:00 < sauvin> Could be. Been working very well all day until just a few minutes ago.
09:01 < darkmeson> sauvin: sub-second response to a query here, and that's fast for Tor
09:01 < darkmeson> sauvin: mtr it and see if your ISP is having issues? :)
09:02 < sauvin> It's not the ISP even *without* the mtr (which I did) because everything ELSE is zippy as hell.
09:02 < V7> Hey all
09:02 < V7> i3-wm doesn't show any text on fresh arch install
09:03 < hexnewbie> sauvin: I suspect the problem is in the computer Bing.com resolves for you, but not in Bing at large, or with your connection personally. I know kernel.org's CDN has done that.
09:03 < notmike> Bing is the greatest search engine of the times
09:03 < sauvin> That's a matter of opinion, and not everybody shares yours.
09:03 < darkmeson> sauvin: that was poor wording on my part. I should've said some hop between you and bing, but I was being lazy
09:04 < hexnewbie> notmike: You have such low opinion of the search engine of the times? :)
09:04 < repys> hi how can I determine why my external (usb) switch off itself ?
09:05 < notmike> hexnewbie: I didn't decide it, it was a majority of the internet wut done it.
09:05 < darkmeson> mtr will typically reveal a problem even it's an overloaded node because that node will be dropping packets like crazy under most circumstances
09:07 < darkmeson> repys: that sounds like a job for ##hardware
09:08 < V7> Anyone :)
09:08 < V7> ?
09:09 < Psi-Jack> V7: What're you expecting?
09:09 < darkmeson> V7: your question was too vague, probably
09:09 < Psi-Jack> Not probably... Definitely.
09:10 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: You've been messing somewhat with these snaps, flatpaks, appimages haven't you?
09:11 < V7> Psi-Jack: darkmeson This is how it looks like: https://i.imgur.com/AHOuPfp.jpg
09:11 < V7> Can't determine why
09:11 < Psi-Jack> Looks like.... Missing fonts.
09:12 < V7> Looks like, but I've installed xorg wchich installs xorg-font-util, xorg-fonts-100dpi and so on
09:13 < darkmeson> or a theme issue
09:13 < V7> theme ?
09:13 < Psi-Jack> It's i3. It's fonts.
09:13 < V7> Psi-Jack: How to check ?
09:13 < Psi-Jack> Install fonts.
09:13 < hexnewbie> I managed to get a similar result when I borked my fonts.conf (either the local or the global one), and fontconfig forwent all my font directories.
09:13 < V7> How to ?
09:13 < V7> pacman -S ttf-dejavu ?
09:13 < Psi-Jack> Arch is too much for you. Switch to a distro you can use and properly learn on.
09:13 < darkmeson> try clicking like you're going to select some text and see if any pops out of the highlight
09:13 < hexnewbie> But I don't know if i3 uses fontconfig.
09:13 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, snaps and flatpaks, yes.
09:14 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Making them, if I recall, right?
09:14 < Psi-Jack> Or using?
09:14 < sauvin> No, just using.
09:14 < darkmeson> if it doesn't, it's probably fonts
09:14 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Come to any determinations?
09:14 < TheWild> hello
09:14 < TheWild> I got one wtf today
09:15 < sauvin> Nope. The only thing I can say at the moment, from my humble perspective, is that snap is nicer because I can navigate into relevant directories and edit configs, add stuff, etc.
09:15 < TheWild> why "watch" command accepts "-n 0,1", but not "-n 0.1" anymore?
09:15 < sauvin> I've not figured out how to do that with flatpak apps.
09:15 < TheWild> on another computer the situation is reversed
09:15 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Hmm. I don't like snaps because of 2 reasons. 1> Canonical. 2> The sanboxing is literally restricting to $HOME, and if you symlink things outside of $HOME it will not allow access to them.
09:16 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, you need to be aware that others have complained about snaps, something to do with Ubuntu-centricism.
09:16 < Psi-Jack> With Flatpak, at least you can add --filesystem=/some/other/path
09:16 < TheWild> on both computer it's the same version: "watch from procps-ng 3.3.10"
09:16 < revel> TheWild: Locale possibly maybe?
09:17 < TheWild> locale? How the hell locale could mess with a command? :O
09:17 < sauvin> I'll have to remember that --filesystem=blah thing because that's what's bebuggerating me atm.
09:17 < sadasaulna> TheWild: yeah locale, almost certainly
09:17 < revel> There's LC_NUMERIC
09:17 < TheWild> if it's locale, I consider it a bug in "watch"
09:17 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Yeah, in my $HOME, I have many symlinks to Documents, Pictures, Videos, etc... To a mass storage device that's spinning, rather than SSD.
09:17 < sadasaulna> TheWild: why?
09:18 < Psi-Jack> Nextcloud, for example, is symlinked, and thus, using snaps Nextcloud client failed miserably.
09:18 < revel> Dunno, just try `LC_NUMERIC=C watch -n 0.5`
09:18 < TheWild> what if it is written in bash script?
09:18 < revel> fwiw, both 0.5 and 0,5 work for me.
09:18 < TheWild> well, I set LC_NUMERIC=C in my .bashrc file
09:18 < revel> No, just that on the same line.
09:19 < TheWild> what other commands could behave so strangely?
09:19 < V7> Psi-Jack: fonts work, but not in i3 as you can see: https://i.imgur.com/BphQ0OK.jpg
09:19 < revel> Did it change anything or not?
09:19 < Psi-Jack> V7: Arch is still too much for you.
09:19 < V7> Psi-Jack: Thank you, but I need to use arch right now, sorry
09:20 < Psi-Jack> "need?"
09:20 < V7> So, any ideas ?
09:20 < TheWild> ok, thanks sadasaulna and revel
09:20 < TheWild> I would really get pissed off if e.g. python would use , instead of . as decimal separator, depending on locale
09:21 < TheWild> every programming/scripting language I know or seen used . as a decimal separator
09:21 < sadasaulna> TheWild: thats a bit like saying everyone speaks English on the Internet though
09:21 < Psi-Jack> V7: I'll just keep telling you the same thing. Though, have you tried #archlinux?
09:21 < revel> They don't? o_o
09:22 < michaelrose> programming languages aren't localized nor reasonably should they be
09:22 < revel> Has everyone just been pretending?
09:22 < V7> Psi-Jack: This is arch32, not arch so I can't go there
09:22 < darkmeson> lol
09:22 < Psi-Jack> LOL
09:22 < Psi-Jack> Gee.. You claim arch, then it's not arch.
09:23 < darkmeson> I'd forgotten how funny some of these exchanges can be
09:23 < darkmeson> (when it's not me in them)
09:23 < V7> uuh. And you're in the same mannere
09:23 < Psi-Jack> That didn't even make any bit of sense.
09:24 < Dagmar> Maybe this is a nomenclature confusion?
09:25 < Dagmar> TheWild: Don't worry.  Java is there to provide enough confusion for several different languages.
09:26 < Dagmar> TheWild: It makes it seem perfectly reasonable to just demand format strings use en_US separators when you see how complex it actually becomes in languages that don't
09:26 < Dagmar> Translate your numbers to Arabic with #,##.## and it'll crash
09:28 < pressure679> Is there a program available which autocorrects words? There is one here https://github.com/sandor-nemeth/go-word-finder/blob/master/word-finder.go but instead of implementing it to my own program I was hoping there was a tools readily available (commandline tool)
09:28 < pressure679> s/tols/tools/g
09:28 < pressure679> s/tools/tools/g
09:28 < pressure679> s/tools/tool/g
09:28 < Psi-Jack> Sheash..
09:29 < TheWild> okay, the only language that I saw localized to my language was logo. "lw" was left, "pw" was right, "np" was forward... but AFAIR english originals still worked.
09:29 < TheWild> but it was a toy language
09:30 < Dagmar> I kept getting complaints from the automated testing in the Play Store for an app I've got that does a bit of number crunching, and when I looked into why I was kinda miffed
09:30 < Dagmar> Programming languages should generally _not_ be localized
09:30 < Dagmar> They are a _language_ unto themselves.
09:31 < Dagmar> Logo was a very special case, since you were basically just assigning short names to atomic operations
09:31 < TheWild> much like assembly ;)
09:31 < Dagmar> Absolutely
09:32 < Dagmar> ...except even the assembly used on the first machines that ran Logo had hundreds more operators
09:33 < repys> how can I disable auto shutdown of external disks?
09:33 < Dagmar> hdparm... USE WITH CAUTION
09:33 < Dagmar> Seriously
09:34 < Dagmar> You can change/disable the timeouts on the drives themselves, but the values are seldom set as clock seconds
09:34 < Dagmar> ...and this is not a tool you should just be *idly* poking at your disks with in this way
09:35 < Dagmar> You *can* set absolutely stupid values for certain things that will cause the drive to die inside of a year
09:36 < Dagmar> Be quite sure of which setting you're changing before you actually try and change it.  Google is your friend on this one
09:49 < autopsy> hdparm is a good tool.
10:03 < V7> Uh
10:03 < V7> Can't get this i3 to work
10:03 < V7> It just doesn't show any character, even I'd changed font type
10:10 < TheNH813> First off, I'v already searched the internet with disappointing results. Does anyone know of a lsb-release file collection from a bunch of different distros?
10:11 < prawn> you mean the standard noone wants to fully adhere to? :)
10:11 < TheNH813> Yeah that XD
10:11 < revel> Which one?
10:11 < TheNH813> lsb-release
10:11 < revel> That was a joke.
10:12 < notmike> Even though I troll u bros alot, its because I like you so much
10:12 < iflema> revel: which one or lsb-release
10:12 < revel> The former.
10:12 < revel> Since there's tons of those.
10:12 < notmike> gotta make you tuff for when actual bad trolls roll thru
10:12 < revel> I <3 u 2, !mike
10:12 < iflema> lua
10:12 < iodev> I finally fixed my Wifi, did a bit of analysis, found channel 7 with least persons
10:13 < TheNH813> I just want referrences for the distributor names of a few common distros, without having to guess. Developing software that needs to use specific commands based on vendor, based on default installed packages.
10:13 < iflema> !
10:13 < iodev> 40 MHz bandwidth should be illegal! It occupies too many channels!
10:13 < TheNH813> One such example being playsound vs ogg123.
10:14 < revel> TheNH813: screenfetch figures out the distro/version for tons of things, that might be worth having a look at.
10:14 < TheNH813> Hmmm...
10:14 < TheNH813> I will look into that.
10:14 < dasfamiliar> Hello everyone
10:15 < TheNH813> revel: Yeah that's exactly what I need.
10:15 < revel> Cool.
10:15 < TheNH813> Thanks.
10:17 < TheNH813> And I'l be honest, my program may be a collection of shell scripts and python. It does.... things. Scheduled popup reminders, mounting cifs shares, editing bootloader config, converting video files.... yeah I'm basically condensing all my scripts into one executable.
10:18 < TheNH813> And then simlinking it to the places it was before. Kindof like what busybox does.
10:18 < TheNH813> It figures out what to do based on the name it's called by.
10:18 < revel> Neat.
10:20 < TheNH813> It's basically going to be my "copy it to /usr/local/bin and everything just works" tool.
10:20 < TheNH813> So for needing distro detection. d:
10:20 < cheapie> busier-box! :P
10:22 < TheNH813> That's... surprisingly a fitting name for it. Honestly, mind if I use it?
10:23 < revel> You'd probably have to ask the Busybox people instead of him.
10:23 < probook> hi
10:23 < iodev> cheapie: quick, I'll give you 1$ for the copyright to busierbox
10:23 < iodev> TheNH813: 1 word: Royalty
10:23 < TheNH813> probook: Hello
10:24 < probook> TheNH813: bsd or Linux ? :)
10:24 < TheNH813> I use Linux. Rarely did anything bsd related.
10:24 < TheNH813> Besides a router VM here or there.
10:25 < probook> TheNH813: NT is better :) hahah
10:25 < TheNH813> lol no thanks.
10:26 < revel> I wonder if even ##windows agrees with you.
10:26 < probook> windows is love linux :) lol
10:27 < TheNH813> revel: I'd bet that. I'd not touch NT with a 30 foot pole.
10:27 < Travankor> probook: you use freebsd?
10:27 < probook> microsoft want to own all linux and rights
10:27 < TheNH813> I don't doubt that one bit either.
10:28 < probook> Travankor: im already use Gnu but i tried bsd as network things
10:28 < TheNH813> Especially with the E-E-E tactics in the pact.
10:28 < revel> TheNH813: I mean if even ##windows agrees with probook on NT being better.
10:28 < sauvin> They wouldn't.
10:29 < probook> revel: im agree with all technology :)
10:29 < revel> Preaching $x on ##${i} doesn't seem like an amazing idea.
10:30 < Travankor> probook: you mean gnu hurd?
10:30 < revel> He will in 60 years.
10:30 < probook> Travankor: not really
10:30 < TheNH813> Personally, I think one of the best choices I ever made was to force myself to fully switch over when XP ended support.
10:31 < revel> Poppycock, it got patched less than a year ago!
10:31 < revel> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=55245
10:31 < revel> Or. Hmm. Just over a year ago.
10:31 < TheNH813> Oh yeah, that little unexpected patch.
10:32 < probook> there is better thing about gnu tools when you use arch or so on with i3 or so on you feel better
10:32 < iflema> :D
10:32 < revel> probook: Hmm. Err. According to your CTCP VERSION response, you live in the future...
10:33 < TheNH813> I use Arch now. It was a near seamless switch for me, a few months ago.
10:33 < TheNH813> Got a couple issues I had to sidestep, but the AUR helps greatly.
10:33 < probook> revel: yes i am : ) ( :
10:33 < TheNH813> probook: Do tell us the secret to time travel.
10:34 < TheNH813> It would be of the utmost usefullness.
10:34 < probook> TheNH813: arch is suger HARD
10:34 < revel> Well. You should get that fixed. Set up an NTP daemon.
10:34 < iflema> TheNH813: just remember... try not to upgrade and then shutdown and or not look. If you on a laptop restart it after kernel upgrades not just shut the lid...
10:34 < iflema> point being it can bite if you look away
10:34 < revel> No, wait, that's not the future, that's a month in the past and time's stopped.
10:35 < probook> TheNH813: anyway dont not what are you talking about :)
10:35 < revel> Fake VERSION response then.
10:35 < TheNH813> iflema: Yeah it hangs and fails to power off after updates sometimes.
10:35 < iflema> I ran it for over 8 years and it stopped me once
10:35 < iflema> but for most it would be no go
10:35 < TheNH813> Alt+Printscr+B usually solves that.
10:36 < probook> TheNH813: the real future is what we called now
10:36 < revel> Just B? o_o
10:36 < TheNH813> That's deep.
10:36 < revel>  Do a full REISUB, at least.
10:36 < TheNH813> Well, if it hangs for me, it's usually past the disk umount part.
10:37 < TheNH813> But yeah REISUB is a better idea.
10:37 < TheNH813> At least the SUB part.
10:37 < TheNH813> Which reminds me.....
10:38 < iflema> TheNH813: you may require a kernel argument to allow your board to shutdown
10:38 < TheNH813> Possibly. It works if I don't update though.
10:38 < probook> who think about full AI kernel ?
10:38 < TheNH813> And not every update does it either.
10:39 < TheNH813> I haven't enabled sysrq on my new laptop.
10:39 < TheNH813> I need to do that immediately.
10:39 < iflema> TheNH813: be carefull if you on a laptop and you suspend... probably the easiest to overlook
10:40 < iflema> its the way arch does kernels and is a problem
10:40 < TheNH813> iflema: Which problem would I overlook? The reboot hang thing?
10:41 < iflema> reboots after updated kernels
10:41 < TheNH813> Is that because it deletes all the kernel modules for the old (still running) version?
10:41 < iflema> possibly... if on laptop.... just saying
10:41 < probook> what is the best laptops for linux ?
10:41 < iflema> TheNH813: yes
10:42 < TheNH813> probook: Hmmmmm
10:42 < iflema> asus i would say
10:42 < TheNH813> I bought a Lenovo Thinkpad.
10:42 < iflema> not that i test or buy
10:42 < TheNH813> AMD based version. A12-9720P
10:42 < TheNH813> But I would do some searching for a vendor's history of Linux compatibility first.
10:42 < probook> in the internet they list dell laptops as best match with linux
10:42 < iflema> i know what ill get next time
10:43 < iflema> lool
10:43 < iflema> fuck em
10:43 < TheNH813> One funny thing I'v noticed is Intel based laptops crash when I try to boot FreeDOS on them.
10:43 < probook> Dell xps 13 Linux laptops :)
10:44 < TheNH813> But AMD ones almost always work.
10:44 < TheNH813> Perhaps AMD leaves better 16 bit real mode support hanging in.
10:44 < probook> sometimes AMD almost work better than INTEL
10:44 < TheNH813> Especially if it's price.
10:45 < TheNH813> I mean both make good hardware, but I'm definitely on the AMD side.
10:45 < probook> the main problem with linux now is game :)
10:45 < TheNH813> Yup.
10:46 < probook> game companies not attention to make games for linux Desktop users
10:46 < morf> yeah read blizzard's ceo bs
10:46 < bazhang> steam says otherwise
10:46 < Travankor> link?
10:47 < TheNH813> WINE has come a FAR way but nothing beats native.
10:47 < bazhang> steam actually runs faster on linux than windows
10:47 < TheNH813> I can confirm that.
10:47 < probook> however Sony Playstation Kernel is so closer to unix and bsd
10:47 < TheNH813> Steam starts up REALLY fast for me.
10:48 < bazhang> wine is the dead last solution
10:48 < probook> steam is the valve key to be rich :)
10:48 < oiaohm> probook: sony playstation kernel is based around freebsd.
10:48 < bazhang> better to play in a browser or dosbox
10:48 < probook> oiaohm: yes you right but i mean it's made with unix like kernel not hybrid kernel
10:48 < oiaohm> probook: to be correct  FreeBSD version 9.0.   This include having matching defects that required fixing.
10:49 < TheNH813> oiaohm: lol
10:49 < probook> almost linux kernel is faster than other why not to make a gaming platform on it ?
10:50 < oiaohm> probook: license.
10:50 < probook> oiaohm: what licenses ?
10:50 < TheNH813> I'd say Android counts.... but not really. That's a whole other can of worms I don't want to open.
10:51 < oiaohm> probook: lot of game and console companies want Digital Rights Management.  GPL is not really that friendly for that.
10:51 < Disconsented> CPU overhead isnt the problem. The problem is vendor support and GPU drivers
10:51 < TheNH813> Steam provides a decent Linux compatable DRM api. But they're pretty much the only platform that does.
10:51 < probook> oiaohm: but before make licenses you should make the platform then you can define millions of them
10:52 < bazhang> probook, make licenses?
10:52 < TheNH813> At least we don't have to rely on flash for DRM protected video playback anymore.
10:52 < probook> bazhang: yes why not
10:52 < bazhang> probook, do you know what the GPL is?
10:53 < oiaohm> probook: You want content from game companies for your console you have to have the features they want include Digitial right management and licensing software the way they want.
10:53 < probook> bazhang: yes i do
10:53 < bazhang> probook, you dont make licenses, they come with them
10:53 < oiaohm> probook: that in a lot cases is kernel level enforced digital right management.
10:53 < TheNH813> probook: You mean generate keys to sell for your program?
10:53 < oiaohm> probook: now that gets hell with GPL license but is find with BSD license so sony went freebsd.
10:54 < oiaohm> probook: find/fine with BSD license.
10:54 < probook> okey but i mean when richard st made gpl where they came ? they made with him
10:54 < TheNH813> The BSD license is short and to the point.
10:54 < bazhang> st richard?
10:55 < TheNH813> But the GPL is a lot stronger, legal-wise. At least in my opinion, because of how verbose and legalese it is.
10:55 < TheNH813> But I could be wrong.
10:55 < Travankor> yeah
10:55 < bazhang> ibm redhat and others have a huge warchest to defend the GPL probook
10:56 < probook> bazhang: yes i know always companies made this problems
10:56 < bazhang> probook, who is this 'they' that you say made the gpl
10:56 < bazhang> probook, it's not a problem, they do it for their own benefit
10:56 < probook> bazhang: what do you mean ?
10:57 < probook> bzdocha: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.en.html
10:57 < bazhang> probook, are you familiar with redhat ibm and other such companies that depend on Linux?
10:57 < probook> bzdocha: yes they are need money
10:58 < bazhang> prbk?
10:58 < bazhang> that's not why probook
10:58 < probook> bzdocha: okey you tell us why ?
10:58 < bazhang> probook, thats not my nick
10:59 < probook> bazhang: lol you fuuny :)
10:59 < bazhang> ?
10:59 < oiaohm> probook: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/LICENSES/exceptions/Linux-syscall-note No Linux kernel is GPL v2.0
10:59 < bazhang> probook, you seem to little to no understanding of the GPL
11:00 < Travankor> or he’s trolling
11:00 < bazhang> hard to say
11:00 < probook> i dont know what do you mean
11:01 < oiaohm> probook: there are many features that Linux kernel is allowed to have that are patented that freebsd cannot implement because they are patented by vmware, IBM and others and are only allowed in open source under a GPL copyleft license.
11:01 < probook> GPL is not from stars or alians
11:01 < bazhang> huh
11:01 < TheNH813> oiaohm: I didn't even know that there are features bsd can't implement for that reason.
11:01 < oiaohm> probook: so Linux kernel license is why it performs so well.  It also what makes it in-compadible with some use cases.
11:02 < bazhang> whatever the case, this is not worth carrying on
11:02 < Sveta> probook: you may wish to speak with #gnu
11:02 < probook> I think someday all of rights and licences will purge
11:02 < oiaohm> TheNH813: one of the oldest has been Linux implementation of RCU that comes from IBM own Unix.
11:02 < Sveta> probook: people there are a bit better at explaining things than certain people here
11:03 < oiaohm> TheNH813: so yes there is stuff in the Linux kernel protected by patents and patent license is dependant on GPL license.
11:04 < probook> in many of countries this licences and right has no any mean really people dont know about them :)
11:04 < TheNH813> oiaohm: Thanks for the imformation.
11:06 < oiaohm> probook: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat
11:06 < oiaohm> probook: read that link not being aware of the law does not protect you from the law.
11:06 < bazhang> I sincerely doubt that MS and Apple are just going to say whatever about their things being pirated
11:07 < morf> you mean ignorance doesn't protect you against the law
11:07 < bazhang> ignorance of the law
11:07 < Purec> within reasons c'mon
11:08 < Sveta> how do i limit an app to start only one instance even if launched multiple times?
11:09 < revel> Lock file? Checks proc list?
11:09 < supernovah> is it possible to use find to search through the $PATH only?
11:09 < probook> some day #linux gonna be part of Microsoft and we will see what the licences :)
11:09 < bazhang> ?
11:10 < oiaohm> Purec: to be correct not being aware of the law does not mean you will not have punishment for breaking.  Only thing not being aware of the law is for is punishment negitation.
11:10 < TheNH813> Sveta: Create a file in a program writable directory with a sensible name, such as myprogram.lock
11:10 < TheNH813> Sveta: And when your program starts, have it check to see if it exists.
11:10 < TheNH813> Sveta: And even better yet, have the first instance of the process write it's own PID into the file
11:10 < bazhang> microsoft absorbing linux is not going to happen while ibm and redhat are around
11:11 < TheNH813> Sveta: So when another instance launches, it can check if that PID is still running
11:11 < probook> bazhang: we will see soon lol
11:11 < oiaohm> probook: Linux kernel already has a license.  Its not a item that is sold.   Re-licensing something like the Linux kernel to make it able to be sold would be a massive up hill battle heading to impossible.
11:11 < bazhang> they have special defense patents and will spend many millions to defend it
11:12 < TheNH813> Sveta: And one last safeguard: Check to make sure the PID corresponds to your program name
11:12 < oiaohm> probook: trying to get 10000+ companies to agree + all the individuals is a heck of a up hill battle.
11:12 < TheNH813> Sveta: AT least that's the way I implemented it.
11:13 < TheNH813> Sveta: If the program is question isn't one you made or can modify, write a wrapper script for it. Said script will lauch the program only if it's not running, using the methods I mentioned.
11:13 < bazhang> he might as well say that android is going to be absorbed by MS
11:14 < TheNH813> WEll, it's 4:13AM and I'm gonna go to sleep.
11:14 < TheNH813> Goodnight.
11:14 < bazhang> niters
11:15 < probook> bazhang: and how MS import linux on windows 10 with what kind of licences ?
11:15 < bazhang> probook, do you mean the wsl?
11:16 < probook> bazhang: yes linux beta on windows 10
11:16 < bazhang> that's not 'beta' probook
11:17 < paulcarroty> a tons of apps doesn't works under wsl
11:17 < probook> bazhang: whatever it's a version of linux on windows 10
11:17 < bazhang> yeppers
11:22 < Sveta> The_Schmidt: did you implement it as a bash script?
12:38 < python476> I take X selection is 3 items max right ?
12:39 < python476> if so is there a way / program that provides more 'depth' ?
12:39 < cheapie> Thanks for bailing out partway through the burn with "exceeding range of permissible write addresses", cdrskin, I really appreciate the coaster...
12:39 < python476> (kinda like kde infinite clipboard, but without the DE)
12:41 < Jenny_Tells> I have an nginx problem. I have Multible vhosts, eatch has it's own subdomain which redirects via "return 301 https://$host$request_uri"; to https. However I get redirected to the wrong vhost. There's probably something wrong with my redirect, I'm not an nginx pro, any help appreciated
12:47 < hendrix> python476: there lots of clipboard managers with similar functionality. see for example https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/clipboard
12:50 < python476> hendrix: thanks, for some reason it's that one time I didn't check AW first :) (which once again, prevails)
12:55 < HyP3r> hello I want to show a Checkbox list of all users on a system with linux terminal dialog
12:55 < HyP3r> First I do this to get attributes: normal_users=$(egrep '\:1[0-9]{3}\:' /etc/passwd | awk -F':' '{print $1" \""$3"\" off"}' | sort | tr '\n' ' ')
12:55 < HyP3r> and then this: users=`dialog --checklist "Install this on User" 0 0 4 root "" on $normal_users 3>&1 1>&2 2>&3`
12:55 < HyP3r> But this is not working and I don't know why
12:57 < mawk> what happens if I make a usb device with a crappy crystal
12:58 < HyP3r> Seems like bash is escaping $normal_users variable that way: admin\ \"1001\"\ off\ ef\ \"1000\"\ off\ . How can I disble this whitespace escaping?
13:07 < autopsy> HyP3r, you might try channel #bash?
13:09 < HyP3r> autopsy: yeah sure thanks
13:51 < repys> hi
13:51 < repys> why who -b shows me date at 1970?
13:52 < Sveta> what is the exact output from it?
13:52 < Sveta> and what gnu/linux distribution is it
13:53 < mawk> does /run/utmp exist repys ?
13:53 < mawk> that file may have been damaged in one way or another, or blanked, or anything
13:53 < mawk> so there is no boot date
13:53 < repys> it shows who -b
13:53 < repys>          system boot  1970-01-01 01:00
13:54 < repys> raspbian latest release
13:54 < repys> it is debian like distro
13:54 < repys> yes that file exists, what is that file?
13:58 < revel> Shows that for me as well.
13:58 < revel> Actually... I think it's related to the Pi not having a real RTC.
14:04 < sigma__> I'm using screen and somehow the pts (/dev/pts/1) has become disassociated with any screen session.
14:04 < sigma__> screen -ls shows no sessions, but using ps, I can see my process is still running on /dev/pts/1. Is there a way to gain control of it again?
14:06 < sigma__> Can I retty a screen session, for example?
14:12 < ckc> GUYS THIS IS SERIOUS
14:12 < ckc> WHAT YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT nvidia
14:12 < ckc> SHOULDN'T nvidia DIE?
14:13 < ckc> ITS WASTE COMING TO IRC
14:14 < searedvandal> ok
14:17 < oneko> What's up with nvidia ?
14:20 < revel> It's a fairly common source of issues/complaints.
14:24 < oneko> I know that much but why should random IRC folks wish for Nvidia to die  ? :-P
14:25 < rumpelchen> because Reptilians
14:25 < revel> Because he's had one too many issues with it?
14:26 < oneko> But, on the other paw,  we *we* have not had too many issues with it :-P
14:38 < pankaj> How to begin using libraries in c. Like if I want to use zlib in my c program for taking advantage of compression and decompression then how to begin with using that library. Their is a lot of information there in it. How to begin using it and starting from where?
14:45 < mawk> pankaj: you link your program with it, and read the documentation of the lib
14:45 < mawk> e.g. you link with -lz
14:45 < revel> The code is the documentation ;)
14:45 < mawk> there are very easy facilities compatible with the libc stdio interface
14:47 < cristian_c> hi
14:48 < cristian_c> I've built and installed easycap smi driver (kernel module)
14:48 < cristian_c> I've got driver sources from github repository (via AUR on archlinux, and via github in ubuntu)
14:48 < cristian_c> I've also loaded firmware too (in addition to driver loading)
14:49 < cristian_c> so, I've started vlc and I've connected easycap dongle to input source and to usb port
14:49 < cristian_c> if I look at dmesg output I see a large amount of messages (all them almost the same message)
14:49 < cristian_c> 'smi2021 Skip broken frame N line, but need 240 in current 480 height'
14:49 < cristian_c> vlc screen is always blank, btw
14:49 < pankaj> mawk: OK
14:50 < cristian_c> so, how could I solve this issue, in order to grab video from the device?
14:50 < cristian_c> any ideas?
14:50 < pankaj> mawk: Linking is not  problem but how to get started using and understanding library from a starting point is the main concern.
14:50 < mawk> yeah there is this problem with many libs
14:50 < mawk> like libssl
14:51 < mawk> just read the header file to get an idea of the available functions and interfaces
14:51 < pankaj> mawk: I tried and it was really bad experience at starting..
14:51 < mawk> lol
14:52 < pankaj> mawk: But I will follow your advice about documentation online.
14:52 < pankaj> mawk: lol?
14:52 < pankaj> mawk: Can you please suggest some easy libraries for c whose documentation is easy to grasp?
14:53 < mawk> I don't know if that exists
14:53 < mawk> but for the most popular ones there are begginers guides and stuff
14:53 < mawk> like libc
14:53 < pankaj> mawk: How did you get started with that when you started dealing with understanding libraries and using them. What trick do you use and process to understand libaries and use them in your programs.
14:54 < pankaj> mawk: Beginners guide for what?
14:54 < mawk> for the libc, for instance
14:54 < mawk> well I didn't use any predefined method
14:54 < revel> "The" libc? But there's more than one :<
14:54 < mawk> :(
14:54 < mawk> just reading the source code of libraries suffices I guess
14:54 < mawk> of course you won't grasp everything in the first minute
14:55 < mawk> but you can experiment, then match what you learnt with existing tutorials, etc
14:55 < pankaj> mawk: OK
15:06 < mar77i> hmm, I'm running my domain on afraid.org, and I just went to change a few settings there. it really seems awfully slow today...
15:07 < compdoc> fear does that
15:08 < mar77i> it's a pretty cool dns management service, otherwise
15:11 < mar77i> otoh, stalled requests might be hanging at resolving dns
15:13 < mar77i> ...can someone else try this url for me? https://freedns.afraid.org/
15:14 < rcf> mar77i: it is slow, but it works
15:18 < mar77i> thank you. then it's not just me. https://i.imgur.com/6plxOV3.jpg
15:20 < solidfox> how would you debug a problem where sometimes you boot up and certain keys don't work, or don't do what you expect them to?
15:20 < solidfox> I'm just a linux user and only ever worked on applications, never operating system programs or kernel either.
15:21 < solidfox> the delete key turns my touchpad off for instance. and the up and right arrows do nothing.
15:22 < mar77i> there was this hw* tool to adjust your keyboard at a basic level, like reassigning alt, escape and such...
15:22 < mar77i> solidfox: ...the way you're describing it makes it sound like a dead fn key, though.
15:23 < solidfox> mar77i, this only happens every once in a while. and the only solution is to reboot once or twice.
15:23 < solidfox> (the only solution I've found)
15:25 < mar77i> solidfox: I can turn one of my laptops off with fn+delete. there might be a firmware setting to adjust your fn key. you might be at the mercy of your laptop's firmware. one solution might be using a different keyboard or even replacing the one that's already there.
15:26 < solidfox> mar77i, you're saying this is using some special software to run my keyboard?
15:27 < solidfox> acer_wmi
15:27 < solidfox> maybe?
15:28 < solidfox> its sort of like this title: https://askubuntu.com/questions/576320/down-arrow-and-delete-are-suddenly-mapped-to-toggle-enable-disable-touchpad
15:30 < kazdax> is this shut down for linux
15:30 < kazdax> Jun 16 11:04:14 localhost systemd: Started Logout off all iSCSI sessions on shutdown.
15:30 < kazdax> its in my var/logs folder
15:31 < kazdax> i just want to know what shuts down my system without me having to shut it down
15:31 < kazdax> the other one is
15:31 < kazdax> Jun 17 09:21:16 localhost systemd: Starting Update UTMP about System Boot/Shutdown...
15:31 < kazdax> Jun 17 09:21:16 localhost systemd: Started Update UTMP about System Boot/Shutdown.
15:33 < mar77i> solidfox: I suggested your keyboard and its fn key are handled by your laptop's bios firmware, and that there's only this much your operating system can help you with.
15:34 < solidfox> mar77i, how can you be sure though? I mean it affects my arrow keys and delete keys as well.
15:34 < solidfox> mar77i, it just seems like you're taking a wild guess
15:35 < jim> kazdax, to me, it looks like the machine and linux os installed on it is still running
15:35 < FreeFull> On my laptop, the fn key is handled in hardware, the OS never sees it directly
15:35 < FreeFull> I'm pretty sure that's the most common way it works
15:37 < solidfox> FreeFull, the OS sees a more abstract signal right? like "we're toggling the trackpad (A box appears saying I disabled it in linux)" or "we're adjusting the volume"
15:38 < solidfox> I guess it is probably more likely that the signals are just wrong, so I guess it probably is the firmware then
15:38 < mawk> try it and see
15:38 < FreeFull> solidfox: Let's say I press fn+F9 on my laptop
15:38 < kazdax> how do i check when the shutdown happens ?
15:38 < mawk> when the light on the computer is turned off
15:39 < kazdax> no but it shutdowns on its own if i leave it on for a while
15:39 < FreeFull> I'm not sure what the drivers see, but it comes through to X as the XF86TouchpadToggle key
15:39 < kazdax> i hope its not some setting that says shutdown if after this many hours its inactive
15:39 < kazdax> i am using rhel
15:40 < solidfox> FreeFull, is firmware the same as a driver?
15:42 < FreeFull> solidfox: Drivers run as part of the kernel on the CPU, firmware runs on the various chips that make up the hardware
15:43 < jim> taken together, you could say they both constitute the driver
15:43 < solidfox> FreeFull, jim what does it means to emerge linux-firmware on gentoo then?
15:45 < jim> sometimmes chipset manufacturers won't release source code for them (unfortuate, greedy towards their income, and true)
15:45 < jim> sometimes it means they copy a binary blob somewhere
15:45 < FreeFull> The relevant driver uploads the firmware to the hardware when it's loaded
15:46 < solidfox> oh ok
16:12 < BluesKaj> Howdy folks
16:18 < icedtea> argggg, this is getting annoying, how do you blacklist a module on a recent kernel distro? I tried passing rd.driver.blacklist=mpt2sas to the kernel in grub.cfg and blacklisted the module in /etc/modprobe.d, and ran dracut -o mpt2sas afterswards and specified the initramfs
16:25 < GNU\colossus> icedtea, adding "modprobe.blacklist=mpt2sas" to your kernel cmdline should work
16:28 < christian> hey guys. does anyone of you work with qutebrowser and knows how to hide the history bar (under the bookmarks) if you type in something like "open"?
16:29 < rypervenche> christian: You should ask in #qutebrowser
16:30 < christian> rypervenche: alright, thank you!
16:45 < louisdk> A friend of mine is trying to mount some drives formatted as btfs in Debian on a bios based system but it fails to mount using mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/test. Output from cfdisk: https://i.imgur.com/4wY3ZHN.png
16:46 < hatp> Hello. I use this script (https://paste.linux.community/view/d295bf55) to create a new control group to create applictions with bypass my VPN. Unfortunately, these applications run as root for some reason. Does anyone know why?
16:55 < sleepyhead> hatp: https://www.antonlindstrom.com/2015/11/22/limit-processes-with-cgexec.html
17:03 < hatp> sleepyhead: I tried adding this line `sudo cgcreate -t hatp:hatp -a hatp:hatp net_cls:novpn' but it didn't work out
17:04 < icedtea> GNU\colossus, no luck thanks though. I'm just going to remove the module from the kernel modules tree
17:08 < jim> icedtea, be sure to run depmod -a after you remove the module
17:09 < alioui_> hi all, what mean when nmin in top command is quit high ??
17:10 < jim> a nuculear accident is coming?
17:10 < jim> kidding
17:10 < DildoSwaggins> alioui_, that's it's mostly likley actively running and using a "quite high" amount of system resources
17:14 < icedtea> jim: I didn't good thing it still booted ok, lol, I'm working remotely
17:14 < icedtea> nonetheless the kernel finally booted without the module
17:15 < EugenA> if I run wmctrl -l I get the list of open windows
17:15 < jim> yeah, you'll probably want to run the depmod someday... it's apparantly not critical :)
17:15 < EugenA> this command should be run as root
17:16 < triceratux> icedtea: ive never gotten all the way thru a kernel module blacklisting process myself. i always wind up locating them & physically moving them to somewhere they wont load
17:16 < EugenA> but there are no windows from root user
17:16 < EugenA> how can I get the list of ALL users?
17:16 < EugenA> list of windows of ALL users
17:16 < zapotah> jim: well, its just a sas controller driver :P
17:16 < zapotah> so nothing should depend on it
17:17  * zapotah runs tons of of broadcom hbas
17:17 < jim> zapotah, so the depmod wouldn't change anything then?
17:18 < zapotah> shouldnt
17:18 < icedtea> it's actually just for a SAS tape drive. I believe the mpt2sas is causing a kernel panic
17:19 < zapotah> icedtea: thats the driver for the hba
17:19 < zapotah> icedtea: if you blacklist the driver, you damn sure wont see anything connected to it
17:20 < zapotah> the driver is _extremely_ stable too
17:20 < zapotah> so if theres a panic its most likely hardware related
17:20 < zapotah> unless this system is super ancient
17:21 < icedtea> zapotah: I see lots of kernel panics related to the driver on google. It only panics on the 8.62.3.3 kernel
17:21 < zapotah> wtf
17:21 < zapotah> thats no linux kernel i ever heard of
17:22 < icedtea> zepotah: sorry I thought I was in the #centos channel. It for 3.10-0-862.3.3 centos kernel package
17:22 < zapotah> so latest
17:22 < zapotah> iirc
17:22 < zapotah> rollback the kernel
17:22 < icedtea> yeah, it's for an older hba. It
17:23 < icedtea> I'm think it's either the HBA or the really old PERC5/e in it
17:23 < zapotah> perc doesnt use mpt2sas driver
17:23 < zapotah> iirc
17:25 < icedtea> yeah it uses megaraid_sas
17:26 < zapotah> dmesg should tell you what causes the crash
17:26 < zapotah> or console
17:27 < zapotah> lol, two balls on the field :D
17:27 < zapotah> oops
17:29 < icedtea> zapotah: I looked at the kernel dump with crash, and it in keeps dying in intel_idle kernel command.
17:30 < icedtea> but mpt2sas had a problem before that caused this so maybe redhat reverted something
17:31 < ttwhy> Hi, how do i pass more than one argument to a question / answer program? (example: echo y | apt-get install fu ... in my case its yaourt and it asks to select a package and select a configuration ... so its not just one echo command)
17:31 < zapotah> sounds like something that needs the new in-kernel debugging stuff
17:34 < jim> you mean linus relented and let a debugger in?
17:38 < Sitri> "No kernel debugger was included in the mainline Linux tree prior to version 2.6.26-rc1"
17:38 < Sitri> Several years ago
17:41 < Sitri> https://lwn.net/2000/0914/a/lt-debugger.php3 <-- Linus' stance on debugging the kernel for record
17:44 < DildoSwaggins> "None of the arguments for a kernel debugger has touched me in the least." #meNeither
17:46 < handturkey> hi, where do fonts go in arch, and can I use them immeditely? and does someone know a good font pack I can get?
17:47 < Sitri> Fonts for X11 you mean?
17:48 < DildoSwaggins> well, I don't where they are installed to in ArchLinux, but I do know that there's no cooldown on them
17:48 < DildoSwaggins> so yes, you can use them immediately after they're installed (and have enough mana)
17:50 < Sitri> pacman -Ql $(pacman -Qs xorg-fonts | grep -o 'xorg-fonts[^ ]*') # will show you where they are (you usually don't need to ever know this)
17:50 < searedvandal> take a look in /usr/share/fonts , you'll probably find some there
17:53 < DildoSwaggins> <searedvandal> take a look in /usr/share/fonts , you'll probably find some there
17:53 < DildoSwaggins> even if you don't find the one you want, that's also most likely where they're installed to?
17:53 < searedvandal> at least that's where they are in my arch system and what the arch wiki says
17:53 < searedvandal> consolefonts on the other hand is /usr/share/kbd/consolefonts
18:15 < Zaplo> hi. i have asus router (mips) which has ssh support so i can edit configs. it seems that /etc is mounted as tmpfs, does this mean modifications are lost on every reboot, or do they get saved?
18:15 < Zaplo> it's DSL-N16 router which runs linux 2.6.x
18:16 < DildoSwaggins> yes
18:16 < Psi-Jack> Linux 2.6.x? Wow.. Ancient.
18:16 < DildoSwaggins> that's exactly what it means, and it's not necessarily a bad thing
18:16 < Zaplo> Linux DSL-N16 2.6.36 #1 SMP Sat Oct 28 01:10:30 CST 2017 mips unknown
18:16 < Psi-Jack> Zaplo: I bet that's vulnerable to VPNFilter.
18:16 < DildoSwaggins> it prevents hackers from permanently backdooring your router, if it's ever hacked
18:17 < DildoSwaggins> a simple reboot undoes the damage
18:17 < Zaplo> yes that's certainly good thing.
18:17 < Psi-Jack> In many cases, yes.. Lately exploits have been doing further to permanently change things until you flash new firmware.
18:18 < Drakonan> All right yall i got a cool question... is there a software out there now that can compare all the files on your computer with internet available files for possible deletion (because if its available on the internet you may not want to keep it on your pc) and yes i want to reserve all rights if such a program doesnt exist yet because thats awesome and i may want to write it
18:19 < DildoSwaggins> it's called OneDrive
18:19 < Psi-Jack> Ewwww. Microsoft..
18:19 < Psi-Jack> Get a rope!
18:19 < Drakonan> how does onedrive do that?
18:19 < DildoSwaggins> DropBox, Google Drive, pick your poison
18:19 < Psi-Jack> Ewww, third party "cloud storage" providers. :)
18:20 < Drakonan> you'd have to move everything to the cloud? not what im wanting to do, im wanting to delete local where its available in the cloud not download it all to the cloud
18:20 < DildoSwaggins> Drakonan, OneDrive lets you do that by being able to mark certain files as "always available" or to download them on-the-fly when needed
18:21 < Drakonan> basically im trying to find some places where i can delete files but i dont want to delete something for nostalgic purposes or because its important to me but if its a publvically available file i prob dont need it to take up space locally on my hd
18:21 < DildoSwaggins> Psi-Jack, i know, i hate 3rd party software as-well, but from what he just said, it sounds like he's looking to re-invent the wheel, so I had to bring it up
18:21 < DildoSwaggins> "if such a program doesnt exist yet because thats awesome and i may want to write it"
18:22 < Psi-Jack> DildoSwaggins: I don't hate third-party software, I actually use third party software.
18:22 < Drakonan> so basically i have a hd full of probably 20 copies of user profiles i've had over the years and miscelaneous downloads instead of having to go through all of them to recover some space and instead of just deleting them and potentially losing a resume or something that i only have that one copy of a software sohuld automatically bring to the surface all these files that i probably need local without deleting potentially important ones
18:23 < DildoSwaggins> unfortunately, it's an unnecessary evil if you want to cooperate w/ "normal" people in the enterprise world
18:23 < Drakonan> dont need local*
18:23 < Drakonan> yeah its moving to the cloud all of it eventually even corporate
18:24 < Drakonan> its just cheaper (cost wise) in terms of the underlying technology NOT in terms how much it costs to buy it retail
18:24 < DildoSwaggins> we've come to the point where electricity is more expensive than GB's
18:24 < Drakonan> yep there's a good google talk on that very same subject actually have you seen it?
18:24 < DildoSwaggins> and moving to the cloud offsets the liability of uptime
18:24 < Psi-Jack> heh
18:25 < DildoSwaggins> or availability, rather
18:26 < Drakonan> basically electricity cost will ultimately dicate that everything goes to the cloud eventually
18:27 < DildoSwaggins> yes
18:27 < morf> well not just electricity but most of those things they do simply are cheaper when you do them en masse
18:27 < DildoSwaggins> electricity was the reason we had to split the processor up into multiple cores, instead of having 1 super-powerful one
18:28 < Psi-Jack> Eh? No it's not.
18:28 < DildoSwaggins> power-efficiency
18:28 < DildoSwaggins> as processor speed increases, the demand for power does aswell
18:29 < DildoSwaggins> and at a certain point, the trade-off stops becoming beneficial
18:29 < Drakonan> lets see that has to be out there somewhere or some semblance... so i need to hash all my stuff, and then query some giant hash db(s)
18:33 < dogbert2> just found this at Frys for $98 (great for a linux box): https://www.frys.com/product/9028547?nearbyStoreName=false&site=sunemail061718
18:35 < DildoSwaggins> dogbert2, https://www.frys.com/product/9028547?nearbyStoreName=false&site=sunemail061718
18:36 < DildoSwaggins> oops, wrong paste
18:36 < DildoSwaggins> https://www.amazon.com/ThinkCentre-M58-Performance-Professional-Refurbished/dp/B01MF56QOJ/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_147_lp_t_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=V5RH6TEWDEXYT6KC3FAZ
18:36 < hexnewbie> DildoSwaggins: I suspect you mean heat dissipation, but I'm not sure that would be right either. Any citation?
18:38 < DildoSwaggins> hexnewbie, i could look them up if you're actually interested, but it's something I learned while doing my masters in information systems 3 years ago
18:38 < DildoSwaggins> https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-32129-0_3
18:38 < dogbert2> LOL...well, I can pick up the link I posted today :)
18:38 < kamura> join #python
18:39 < hexnewbie> DildoSwaggins: Ah. Cause I don't remember hearing any official reason. Thanks for the link.
18:44 < Drakonan> dogbert2,
18:44 < Drakonan> i can give you a better deal than that
18:44 < dogbert2> LOL...
18:44 < DildoSwaggins> yes... get one on eBay, without the HDD, and put in a solid-state drive yourself
18:45 < DildoSwaggins> you could get a quad-core for the same price, really
18:45 < Drakonan> seriously... i have a quad core i7-920 with 6gb ram im wanting to get rid of
18:45 < DildoSwaggins> $97 ($200 shipping fee)
18:45 < kamura> lads I don't know what I'd do with out linux
18:46 < Drakonan> i got loads of hd's and even a good graphics card
18:46 < dogbert2> LOL
18:46 < kamura> see when you string together some slightly advanced commands with out looking up the man pages and it all works first time
18:46 < kamura> I genuinly feel sick with joy
18:47 < DildoSwaggins> that is a great feeling indeed
18:47 < hexnewbie> If you're a KDE user, don't forget to add the extra core for Plasma, and get a quincore CPU.
18:47 < DildoSwaggins> like when I get awk and sed to work properly the first time
18:48 < DildoSwaggins> kamura, https://xkcd.com/1168/
18:48 < Drakonan> yeah so twice the processors, 2gb's more ram, prob 3x the hd size... for the same price
18:48 < Drakonan> cores*
18:50 < hexnewbie> Speaking of my latest attempts to copy an ISO using Plasma 5, I'm wondering if Plasma shouldn't be renamed to PIO - returning to programmed input/output as the CPU is now kept busy when doing I/O.
18:52 < DildoSwaggins> hexnewbie, https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/299691/do-multi-core-processors-reduce-power-consumption/299756#299756
18:52 < hexnewbie> DildoSwaggins: Thanks
18:52 < DildoSwaggins> np
18:55 < louisdk> I have a gpt butterfs partiton  which is oversized "GPT PMBR size mismatch (3907029167 != 3905945599) will be corrected by w(rite)." How to fix this?
18:55 < DildoSwaggins> what happens when you just press "enter"?
18:56 < DildoSwaggins> when it says "[...] will be corrected by w(rite)," it seem's like it's going to fix it for you
18:56 < louisdk> DildoSwaggins: This is from fdisk -l output. How to do a rewrite without data loss?
18:57 < hexnewbie> louisdk: It says that this will be corrected when you write the partition table with w
18:58 < hexnewbie> louisdk: I suspect the protective MBR is smaller than the disk (i.e. space covered by the GPT partition table), so some DOS/MBR tool could accidentally create a partition in a place overlapping with one of your GPT partitions.
18:59 < louisdk> hexnewbie: Problem: partition 1 is too big for the disk.
18:59 < louisdk> Aborting write operation!
18:59 < louisdk> Aborting write of new partition table.
18:59 < louisdk>  <- output trying ''w" in gdisk
19:00 < hexnewbie> louisdk: OK, so you *do* have an oversized partition, and the protective MBR is the one that's correct
19:01 < hexnewbie> louisdk: How did you achieve this? Is the filesystem on the disk also oversized (which in this case would mean truncated)?
19:03 < louisdk> hexnewbie: I tried creating at bufferfs partiton with openmediavault
19:04 < louisdk> hexnewbie: I'm searching for a way to mount and recover data. I tried resize partition ti 1,7TB w/o help. Still will mount
19:05 < hexnewbie> Does that mean Btrfs? (Why Btrfs?) Did you do anything unusual, like create a RAID over the disk, thus decreasing its size, or moving the data from a larger disk to a smaller disk?
19:06 < hexnewbie> louisdk: It *does* mount? Can you read the files?
19:07 < NetTerminalGene> do spectre vulnerabilities only affected if you use virtual machines?
19:07 < hexnewbie> Without something crazy, this failure mode is downright shocking, because btrfs does tend to break but that's not a Btrfs problem at all. And the Btrfs inside might be alright (is it?)
19:07 < NetTerminalGene> effected*
19:08 < hexnewbie> I'm more likely to believe that guy who once told me that his CD-ROM successfully wrote a file to a CD-ROM disk by using Windows Explorer than that a partition manager shipped with a popular OS would create a partition larger than the disk (whilst creating a correct protective MBR)
19:08 < littlebean> How can I best find a distrobution that is of the filter of being open source, secure, but also somewhat easy, not deep end level
19:09 < louisdk> hexnewbie: https://pastebin.com/zWbwa66r
19:10 < triceratux> littlebean: https://distrowatch.com/search.php
19:10 < hexnewbie> louisdk: OK. So, the kernel didn't detect the partition? Was there a partition? What's the kernel error message in dmesg?
19:11 < louisdk> https://pastebin.com/mFaZWVA5
19:11 < louisdk> dmesg | grep /dev/sdb doesn't give any output
19:12 < hexnewbie> louisdk: /dev/ certainly wouldn't be a string present in a kernel message
19:12 < hexnewbie> louisdk: WHat does gdisk -l say?
19:14 < louisdk> hexnewbie: https://pastebin.com/utb2NKqW
19:15 < hexnewbie> louisdk: Please, either -l or run p inside gdisk, so we can see what's on the disk
19:17 < louisdk> "gdisk -l" didn't work. p inside gdisk: https://pastebin.com/3mrZ5Bja
19:18 < littlebean> triceratux: for it's architecture filter, is that hardware specific? Could you or anyone else help me understand what that option is?
19:18 < jim> louisdk, which disk are we talking about?
19:19 < jim> sda? sdb?
19:19 < louisdk> sdb
19:20 < hexnewbie> louisdk: I suspect it's safe to write it now. I cannot guarantee you it is, but the partition occupies the whole disk (which seems alright), and it will only overwrite the partition table (which is already corrupt)
19:21 < hexnewbie> louisdk: If this is simple GPT corruption like several bits overwritten with 1s, it will be OK. However, if there is more to the story, please share it before proceeding.
19:21 < louisdk> hexnewbie: https://pastebin.com/QRP99sxf
19:21 < jim> louisdk, ok, could you run this: gdisk -l /dev/sdb 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
19:22 < louisdk> jim: http://termbin.com/7wmi
19:22 < hexnewbie> This totally contradicts the part that says ‘First usable sector is 34, last usable sector is 3907029134’ and then the later part that says the partition ends at 3907029134.
19:24 < jim> hmm... it looks like your GPT partition table on /dev/sdb is damaged in some way
19:26 < jim> louisdk, take a look... gdisk -l /dev/sdb
19:27 < jim> does the drive have stuff on it you want to save?
19:28 < louisdk> jim, yes I'd like to save it's data.
19:31 < jim> louisdk, it seems like you might have used dd to copy the drive?
19:31 < louisdk> jim: I'm playing with testdisk
19:32 < hexnewbie> louisdk: mount -o offset=1024KiB,ro -t btrfs /dev/sdb /mnt/test
19:32 < mavorsa> pidgin is such a powerhouse... or maybe its just been way too many years since ive gotten to have just about all my chat protocols all in one place...
19:32 < jim> (the dir /mnt/test must exist as a dir)
19:33 < louisdk> hexnewbie: it mounts!!!!!!!
19:34 < louisdk> hexnewbie: Is the offset similar for my other disks?
19:34 < mawk> !!!!!!!!!
19:34 < hexnewbie> louisdk: Wait, you have that problem for more than one disk?
19:36 < hexnewbie> louisdk: And the offset simply ignored the borked partition table, and directly mounted the offset visible in the paste you provided. Now, copy the data to a correct disk, and stay away from Btrfs and whatever caused your drive to shrink :)
19:36 < louisdk> hexnewbie: Yes. They were created with openmediavault and bufferfs. will not use that fs another time
19:36 < louisdk> hexnewbie: leason learned. Thanks so much.
19:37 < jim> louisdk, do you have a good working disk with some space?
19:37 < louisdk> jim. Yes. Will backup now, write new partition table and ext4 partition before using disk again.
19:38 < jim> louisdk, maybe you should use a file copyer rather than dd
19:38 < jim> also, do you want to try LVM?
19:40 < louisdk> for i in sd{b..d}; do mount -o offset=1024KiB,ro -t btrfs /dev/"$i" /mnt/"$i";done
19:42 < louisdk> jim, hexnewbie: Thanks. I've now saved my friends data. will make a file share and backup data.
19:43 < jim> louisdk, you may want to use something else besides btrfs, I've not heard reports of stability yet
19:44 < jim> gone...
19:44 < hexnewbie> jim: I already urged him not to use btrfs, but the problem had nothing to do with it, somehow.
19:45 < pikaro> how do I access the pulseaudio equalizer without a DE? pulseaudio-equalizer-gtk doesn't exist any more according to apt-file. qpaeq does, but it doesn't have presets. (alternatively, how do I get presets for qpaeq?)
19:45 < sauvin> I command both of you for discouraging btrfs for nonexperimental use.
19:45 < sauvin> s/command/commend/;
19:48 < jim> hexnewbie, yeah, lvm has been rock solid for at least a decade and a half
19:48 < sleepyhead> i had a positive experience with btrfs the last time i used it. it does data checksums so it identified a faulty SSD and mounted the fs read only. this way i avoided data loss.
19:48 < hehehe> folks what  is main diff between luks and vera?
19:48 < hehehe> I am currently using vera yet soo many people are into LUKs
19:49 < jim> sleepyhead, that would be the first positive thing I've heard about btrfs
19:50 < sleepyhead> jim: yeah but i didn't use it when i resintalled because it was causing high CPU usage when i had it on before. maybe that was because of the failing ssd or maybe it was because of btrfs idk
19:50 < sleepyhead> *high cpu at times not all the time
19:50 < hexnewbie> hehehe: That they have little common, outside of the purpose? I guess mainly the TrueCrypt license which has been always problematic.
19:51 < dgurney> I use btrfs (with zstd compression) on my laptop's /, no issues to report
19:51 < hehehe> who cares about license if it works?
19:51 < hehehe> my purpose is to have encrypted vol
19:51 < dgurney> I also use it for my server's project drive (with git repos), no problems there either
19:51 < hehehe> I dont understand why people use luks which is very comples
19:52 < hehehe> instead of simple veracrypt
19:52 < Psi-Jack> ...
19:52 < dgurney> luks is complex? til
19:52 < hexnewbie> LUKS is complex?
19:52 < Psi-Jack> dgurney: You learned FUD, if you learned anything.
19:52 < pikaro> also "who cares about license"?
19:52 < hehehe> well hmm it seems to have many components
19:52 < dgurney> we all love FUD, don't we
19:52 < phinxy> Is there a way for a shellscript to know if its called from within a $()?
19:52 < hehehe> instead of just encrypting
19:52 < Psi-Jack> phinxy: No.
19:52 < hehehe> yes why care about license?
19:53 < hehehe> it does not affect functionality
19:53 < Psi-Jack> phinxy: Just asking that question means your doing it wrong or thinking wrong. :)
19:53 < sauvin> dgurney, what I've heard is that when btrfs works, it works reasonably well. When it breaks, and it sometimes does, there's no recovery.
19:53 < dgurney> sauvin, can confirm the former, but not the latter
19:54 < Psi-Jack> Heh, with btrfs you need VERY good backups
19:54 < dgurney> oh well, regardless of FS you should always have backups anyway
19:54 < darkmeson> jim: btrfs has many positive benefits, it's just that it's propensity for self-corruption still makes it pretty risky unless one has some other snapshotting mechanism underneath to make sure rolling back beyond the damage is possible
19:54 < hehehe> These include plain dm-crypt volumes, LUKS volumes, loop-AES
19:54 < hehehe> and TrueCrypt (including VeraCrypt extension) format.
19:54 < sauvin> dgurney, you're praying.
19:54 < hehehe> why vera not enough?
19:54 < Psi-Jack> hehehe: You can't boot it.
19:54 < hehehe> yes I can't and why would I want to boot it?
19:54 < hehehe> if I can mount it
19:55 < Psi-Jack> This is FDE. Do you understand the concept of FDE?
19:55 < hehehe> linux kernel exploit protection?
19:55 < hehehe> FDE hmmm
19:55 < Psi-Jack> Full Disk Encryption
19:56 < hehehe> reading
19:56 < darkmeson> coincidentally, anything that can make use of btrfs' compression and can be left read-only most of the time is pretty safe
19:56 < jim> darkmeson, yeah, sounds like it's still unstable
19:56 < darkmeson> it's that mostly that pesky disk barrier assumption that all COW filesystems bank on that gets it into trouble afaict, and that only applies to writes
19:57 < phinxy> When defining variables they are available inside $(), Is there a special kind of variable thats only in the outer most scope it was defined in?
19:57 < hehehe> FDE encrypts entire linux OS
19:58 < sauvin> darkmeson, once in a blue moon I'll have an ext3 or ext4 partition go boink. An fsck has always brought all my stuff back. Can btrfs do that?
19:58 < jim> phinxy, you mean shell variables?
19:58 < darkmeson> jim: sauvin was actually dead-on. it's not the fs that's the problem, but the pathetic state of the recovery code
19:58 < hehehe> why would you neeed to encrypt OS instead of user files only?
19:58 < hehehe> as it slows down the system
19:59 < darkmeson> sauvin: no, btrfsck makes only makes it WORSE 90%+ of the time
19:59 < jim> hehehe, in case you don't want someone to know what you run?
19:59 < hehehe> jim: someone who?
19:59 < hexnewbie> hehehe: It does not slow the whole system down, as OS files are cached. Whatever slows the system down usually needs to be encrypted.
19:59 < sleepyhead> hehehe: the idea is that someone can run a script at bootup and grab your data that way. also /tmp is not in /home
20:00 < sauvin> I run Hanna Montana Linux, with all the latest porn repos!
20:00 < darkmeson> When you check the usage screen for it, it even says "WARNING: the repair mode is considered dangerous"
20:00 < hehehe> run script on boot up how
20:00 < hehehe> how will they do it?
20:00 < sleepyhead> hehehe: /etc/rc.local is writable coz / is not encrypted
20:00 < dgurney> systemd unit or init script?
20:00 < dgurney> it's not rocket science
20:00 < hehehe> sleepyhead: so someone physically hacks laptop?
20:00 < jim> hehehe, that's outside the scope of the technical issues, and is squarely inside intent :)
20:01 < hehehe> thinks
20:01 < sleepyhead> hehehe: yes that's why people encrypt their partitions. to slowdown attackers with physical access
20:01 < hehehe> sleepyhead: they cant decrypt vera vol
20:01 < jim> if someone gets your encrypted laptop, they have one choice to use it: format it
20:01 < hehehe> unless yes they install keylogger
20:02 < darkmeson> hehehe: you encrypt the whole OS for security, and also because the files-only solutions like encfs have security problems that are hard to triage
20:02 < hehehe> if someone  installs keylogger they can do it at bios level
20:02 < hehehe> and capture LUKS keys that way
20:03 < darkmeson> https://defuse.ca/audits/encfs.htm
20:03 < sleepyhead> hehehe: like i said slowdown potential attackers with physical access
20:03 < sleepyhead> slowdown not stop entirely
20:03 < hehehe> sleepyhead: slowdown is useless
20:03 < sleepyhead> hehehe: then don't bother encrypting
20:03 < sleepyhead> because that's all it does
20:03 < hehehe> sleepyhead:  I am practial man
20:04 < hehehe> i do things 100%
20:04  * darkmeson hands hehehe a rubber ducky
20:04 < hehehe> not just slowdown :D
20:04 < Psi-Jack> hehehe: No, you don't. :p
20:04 < Psi-Jack> You do things more like 25% from all of the history of your communications here. :p
20:04 < Psi-Jack> BIOS level keylogger? Get real.
20:04 < hehehe>   This audit finds that EncFS is not up to speed with modern
20:04 < hehehe>   cryptography practices. Several previously known vulnerabilities have
20:04 < hehehe>   been reported [1, 2], which have not been completely fixed. New issues
20:04 < hehehe>   were also discovered during the audit.
20:04 < sleepyhead> well there is one other benefit. it makes it easy to wipe the disk since you just need to delete the LUKs master key.
20:05 < hehehe> did not Vera crypt fixed them in latest release?
20:05 < sauvin> hehehe, what's your threat model?
20:05 < hehehe> someone stealing laptop
20:06 < hehehe> in which case vera crypt seems to be fine
20:06 < sauvin> Then you don't need the greatest security. What you need is to discourage Joe Sixpack.
20:06  * lnnb steals hehehe's laptop and rearranges the keys
20:06 < hehehe> if someone aims to have regular access to get data they will infect bios
20:06 < hehehe> and so LUKs is useless
20:06 < hehehe> and it is slower than veracrypt
20:06 < hexnewbie> It's 2018. Every sane criminal would invest in a UEFI keylogger, and not waste money on BIOS.
20:06 < sleepyhead> is it?
20:07 < dgurney> I encrypt /home on my laptop with luks, nice and simple
20:07 < hehehe> I do same with vera
20:07 < hehehe> nice and simple
20:07 < hehehe> hexnewbie: hmm
20:07 < compdoc> I like veracrypt too
20:08 < Dagmar> Stop watching CSI for your cyber-security knowledge
20:08 < Psi-Jack> LOL
20:08 < Dagmar> It's doing you no favors
20:08 < Psi-Jack> Dagmar++
20:08 < compdoc> but the babes on CSI are hot!
20:09 < hehehe> https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/181850/do-pre-boot-software-keyloggers-exist
20:09 < Dagmar> _Clearly_ you have internet access.
20:09 < Dagmar> You don't need to watch CSI to see women
20:09 < hexnewbie> Yeah, there's CSI: Cyber if you want to get real cyber-security knowledge. ;p
20:09 < solidfox> Dagmar, I look at women with libcaca
20:09 < hehehe> the UEFI modules can be loaded in some systems regardless of what you boot. (and it could be signed to work even if it does require it) – LvB Mar 20 at 10:40
20:10 < Dagmar> https://so.why.should.i.care.about.some.link/with-a-bullcrap-not-actually-related-keyword-in-the-title
20:10 < hehehe> any such methods render LUKS useless too
20:10 < hehehe> and vera crypt is more elegant
20:10 < hehehe> it just makes sense since it encrypts only whats needed - user files
20:10 < solidfox> will a criminal be able to get my files if they steal my laptop Dagmar
20:11 < solidfox> Dagmar, I used luks on kubuntu
20:11 < sauvin> Dagmar, what's worse, some of these folk seem to get their cybersecurity knowledge from reruns of the TV series "Get Smart".
20:11 < Dagmar> solidfox: That depends heavily on whether or not you forgot to remove the stickynote with your login password from the screen
20:11 < solidfox> Dagmar, nah its in my wallet
20:11 < hehehe> sauvin: how does LUKS helps with bios infection - it does not
20:11 < hehehe> so what are the real LUKS advantages over Vera?
20:12 < Dagmar> Well, it's used by people who aren't idiots
20:12 < solidfox> I need to get a new ssd for encrypted backups in case someone breaks in, then they can't get my backups
20:12  * triceratux relies exclusively on boris & natasha for cybersec
20:12 < hexnewbie> If we're in the TV universe, I guess all encryption is doomed, because the malicious party would simply get your passphrase from the acoustic imprint of you typing it in the dirt of your desk.
20:12 < hehehe> hexnewbie: no
20:12 < hehehe> use white noise generator
20:12 < sauvin> I don't bother with either. I hide all my pics of the babes with the bewbies in an encfs-protected directory.
20:13 < Dagmar> solidfox: Just using LUKS with a sensible password and encrypting the whole disk is going to readily keep out anyone but a handful of very determined experts
20:13 < sauvin> My threat model is more immediate than yours, too. It's called "girlfriend".
20:13 < hehehe> encfs? :)
20:13 < hehehe> Dagmar: and make OS slower when vera does the same job
20:13 < Dagmar> Please quantify specifically, how much slower
20:13 < sauvin> Yup. Encfs. It doesn't *have* to be the strongest thing out there because I'm not hiding anything from any alphabet soup agency.
20:13 < hehehe> and vera allows for 100% impossible to prove hidden vol
20:14 < hexnewbie> Encrypting just $HOME, accomplishes little if your swap and /tmp aren't encrypted. (Although it's probably fine if you don't have swap, use tmpfs for /tmp, and don't use KDE which stores stuff in /var/tmp cuz)
20:14 < Kalium> plus if your threat model includes someone trying to break your luks encryption you probably have bigger problems
20:14 < hehehe> in case of you having to reveal passwd
20:14 < hehehe> alphabet soup lol
20:15 < Pentode> mmm soup
20:15 < hehehe> Kalium: idea is if LUKS have 0 extra security features over vera why use it
20:15 < autopsy> Soup is soup.
20:15 < hehehe> clearly decrypting entire OS is slower
20:15 < hehehe> than decrypting a file system in a normal OS
20:15 < Dagmar> ...and yet, you've still no idea why someone might encrypt their entire disk
20:16 < Kalium> ^
20:16 < solidfox> hehehe, idk if it's slower. maybe it is but not by much
20:16 < autopsy> It's slower?
20:16 < solidfox> hehehe, as soon as I decrypt I'm at the login screen 500ms later
20:16 < Kalium> yeah, luks doesn't even slow down by that much
20:16 < Kalium> certainly not on a modern computer
20:16 < dgurney> ^
20:17 < hehehe> solidfox: ok say it is not too slow - what is the advantage of encrypting entire OS
20:17 < Dagmar> Disks are slow enough the delay for decryption is basically eaten by head seek times
20:17 < hexnewbie> hehehe: Using null encryption is also way way faster
20:17 < Dagmar> ...at least, in comparison to the CPU
20:17 < hehehe> mine is modern 2 GB ram netbook
20:17 < Kalium> an attacker could put something into your OS to attack everything else, for one thing
20:17 < solidfox> hehehe, because otherwise /etc/shadow is visible
20:17 < Dagmar> Kalium: But it's okay.  He only needs protection from imaginary threats
20:17 < hehehe> solidfox: so what can they see in there?
20:17 < hehehe> in shadow?
20:18 < Dagmar> YOUR PASSWORD
20:18 < Kalium> shadow contains your password hashes
20:18 < solidfox> hehehe, shadowz
20:18 < Kalium> so it's, uh, bad if someone gets in
20:18 < hehehe> password hashes such as which passws?
20:18 < solidfox> hehehe, everytime i type your nick it looks like I'm giggling
20:19 < Psi-Jack> Hmm /etc/shadow contains pretty much none of my password hashes. :p
20:19 < Dagmar> More importantly, if you're not encrypting the entire disk, it becomes kidna easy for them to replace a lib or two so that when you enter the password to unlock /home, it gets emailed to them
20:19 < Kalium> encrypting user files is a thing you may want to do if those don't also decrypt at startup, but it's still Less Secure
20:19 < pi0> how do people test their vpn providers for security?
20:19 < pi0> or is that even possible?
20:19 < Psi-Jack> pi0: By running your own.
20:19 < hehehe> Dagmar: that is a valid point
20:19 < Psi-Jack> Instead of a useless 3rd party .
20:19 < Kalium> if you want to stop someone who steals your laptop from stealing n00dz before they wipe it and pawn it to someone then sure
20:20 < Sitri> pi0: Or you get an external agency to do a security audit
20:20 < Dagmar> Oh they'll check for n00ds nowadays
20:20 < Sitri> Some of them might have already had that done.
20:20 < Kalium> ask facebook, they'll tell you how to mitm yourself!
20:20 < Kalium> but yeah, there's some good reviews, I'll see if I can find it, and you can run it yourself on a VPS or, better yet, personal server
20:20 < pi0> i am new to vpn and security
20:21 < Dagmar> It also helps if you know exactly how a network connection should wor
20:21 < pi0> i noticed a couple of freebie linux friendly vpn providers
20:21 < Dagmar> k
20:21 < Psi-Jack> pi0: Well, consider this. VPN is for bridging two networks. That's it.
20:21 < Dagmar> No VPN service is going to help you if, for example, you're still using your local ISP for name resolution
20:21 < Dagmar> ...and yes, people do that.
20:21 < pi0> gotcha, i noticed when i would google something, i would get all kinds of advertisement with youtube and hulu
20:21 < pi0> of the same product i just googled
20:21 < Kalium> free VPN's areprobably bad
20:22 < hehehe> More importantly, if you're not encrypting the entire disk, it becomes kidna easy for them to replace a lib or two so that when you enter the password to unlock /home, it gets emailed to them
20:22 < hehehe> hmm
20:22 < hehehe> so they have access to laptop then they do what? boot from usb and then
20:22 < hehehe> how they bypass existing root passwd?
20:22 < kamura> currently in the proccess of killing my dad
20:23 < Dagmar> ...and then install a trojan'd binary file or three, and put the laptop right back, and wait
20:23 < Kalium> if the drive is unencrypted they can just mount the drive
20:23 < pi0> i have been playing with ubuntu on virtualbox
20:23 < Kalium> the password doesn't exist, as far as the drive is concerned
20:23 < pi0> are there good tutorials for full disk encryption
20:23 < kamura> migrating my plex library from one server to another while he's sat between both
20:23 < Dagmar> hehehe: No one with physical access to an unencrypted laptop is going to have to even _worry_ about what the root password is
20:23 < Pentode> hehehe, boot it in single user mode? use a rescue disk?
20:23 < hehehe> I see
20:23 < Pentode> slide the hard drive out and plug it into another machine...
20:23 < kamura> if the sound doesn't get him the heat will
20:24 < Kalium> pi0: the Arch Linux Wiki has some good stuff on disk encryption, as usual
20:24 < Dagmar> pi0: If you're still at that level, just keep an eye out for the checkbox that tells it to encrypt everything when you do the install
20:24 < pi0> could the same techniques apply to raspberry pi?
20:24 < hehehe> Pentode: hmm fair point
20:24 < Dagmar> pi0: It's fairly easy to just enable it during installation time
20:24 < pi0> nice
20:24 < Kalium> oh, yeah, if you just want disk encryption the ubuntu installer makes it easy
20:25 < Dagmar> Irritatingly, it's slightly more polished in Ubuntu than it is with Debian
20:25 < hehehe> Kalium: is the default disk encryption = luks?
20:25 < pi0> but how about home directory encryption is that the same
20:25 < pi0> or is full disk and home directory encryption different
20:25 < Dagmar> Yes
20:25 < Kalium> hehehe: yeah, default for ubuntu is luks
20:25 < hehehe> now thanks to your explanation I can see the benefits of luks
20:26 < Kalium> home directory encryption will prevent anyone from seeing your files without the key, but the OS will be exposed. Full Disk means someone can't just boot your computer and change the OS
20:26 < hehehe> can I run disk encryption on ubuntu anytime?
20:26 < hehehe> hehe so simple
20:26 < Dagmar> ...and you can still use LUKS with /home.  It's a different mechanism from encfs
20:27 < Dagmar> The only requirement is (somewhat obviously) that the /home directory be it's very own mount point and filesytem
20:27 < Kalium> hehehe: I've never tried after boot, no-one I know has ever tried either.
20:27 < hehehe> you could also add invisible seals to see if laptop case have been opened
20:27 < hehehe> to access bios
20:27 < Dagmar> encfs is the only mechanism that can operate opportunistically and doesn't need to encrypt an entire partition at once
20:28 < hehehe> however if you are in USA law may require you to give passwd
20:28 < hehehe> or jail
20:28 < Dagmar> Highly unlikely
20:28 < hehehe> Vera allows for deniable hidden vol
20:28 < Dagmar> If a cop starts asking about passwords, you don't answer them.  Period.
20:28 < hehehe> so maybe then LUKS
20:28 < hehehe> and on LUKS drive Vera
20:28 < hehehe> :D
20:28 < hehehe> then it is secure
20:28 < Dagmar> You should *absolutely* have a lawyer answer that question.
20:29 < Dagmar> Not you.
20:29 < Dagmar> If *you* are the one being asked, then you can merrily say "eat me"
20:29 < hehehe> well no one asked me however I have heard they ask sometimes in airports
20:29 < Dagmar> I have laughed loud and long at them in airports
20:30 < hehehe> so did I and they did not admit me one time :D
20:30 < hehehe> told me to f off
20:30 < pi0> after the os has already been installed, can you still enable full disk encryption
20:30 < hehehe> yes if you are permanent resident then you can lol at them
20:30 < Dagmar> Tell them "where's my big check for being denied a flight due to airport incompetence"
20:30 < pi0> or would it be more difficult at that point
20:30 < Dagmar> You can, but it's going to be a PITA
20:30 < hehehe> Dagmar: true, insurance payout
20:31 < hehehe> Dagmar: yet last time I made a joke they called port director and cancelled my 'right' to enter visa free
20:31 < hehehe> :)
20:31 < Dagmar> hehehe: No, I mean in the US if you buy a ticket and the flight does't get you there within 4 hours of the stated arrival time at the time of purchase, they have to pay you a not inconsequential amount of money
20:31 < hehehe> and yes it is legal to do so
20:31 < pnbeast> Airports are insane.  I like to carry flash drives with live distros and encrypted flash drives with data.  They go right through the carry-on screen and stay with me.
20:31 < hehehe> Dagmar: how much?
20:31 < Dagmar> If the TSA attempts to extend their grasp far beyond their reach, that still applies
20:32 < hehehe> Dagmar: yes that all applies to permanent residents not to the visitors
20:32 < hehehe> however neat info
20:33 < Dagmar> You don't have to expend even a tiny bit of effort to annoy them
20:33 < Dagmar> Just say "no, i'm not giving you my password"
20:33 < Dagmar> They've got the resources for a brute force crack if they really, really want to read a filesystem
20:33 < hehehe> and they say fine you are not admited to US
20:33 < hehehe> lol
20:33 < hehehe> go back to canada etc
20:34 < Dagmar> Pfft.  Find a dirt road like everyone else
20:35 < hehehe> also I am pretty sure it is a criminal offence not to give passwd to police in US
20:35 < hehehe> min 2 years in jail
20:35 < Dagmar> You would be wrong.
20:35 < Dagmar> Entirely and 100% wrong.
20:35 < Dagmar> A judge can compel someone explicitly to reveal a password with a search warrant
20:36 < Dagmar> That search warrant is required to have as it's basis, information that indicates actual evidence is inside that specific encrypted store
20:36 < Dagmar> They can't just be saying, "Well, we know they're up to something" and decide to include an encrypted storage device in the warrant
20:37 < Dagmar> Some random cop?  No.  Not a chance.  It's been through the courts several times now.
20:37 < pi0> has anyone here use ubuntu mini
20:37 < rascul> they could always beat you with a pipe though
20:38 < Dagmar> If some checkpoint monkey wants to get butch and ask for the root password on your laptop, tell them "bring in someone qualified and maybe I'll consider it"
20:38 < pi0> its like 80 mg iso, is it possible to make fully disk encryption without x windows
20:38 < Dagmar> Someone who is actually qualified for the task will simply make an image copy of the disk and be done with it
20:38 < Dagmar> pi0: Nothing about LUKS requires a GUI
20:38 < hehehe> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/20/appeals_court_contempt_passwords/
20:38 < hehehe> here
20:39 < Dagmar> hehehe: You don't listen very well, do you
20:39 < pi0> Dagmar: i see, so i should be googling luks ubuntu tutorials
20:39 < pi0> i am trying to find something to follow that i can do it on virtualbox
20:39 < Dagmar> pi0: Or just LUKS in general since it's not like Ubuntu wrote anything special for it
20:39 < hehehe> Dagmar: hmm I do
20:40 < hehehe> they need a warrant?
20:40 < hehehe> I will check actual law atm
20:40 < Dagmar> hehehe: They *had* a warrant in that case
20:40 < pi0> understood
20:40 < hehehe> I am pretty sure in US people have no legal rights to hide passwd
20:40 < Dagmar> hehehe: Full disclosure, I actually have to know this stuff, because it's part of what I'm generally doing for a living
20:40 < Pentode> hehehe, thats not true.
20:41 < Pentode> it's treated just like anything else that requires a search warrant
20:41 < hehehe> ok I may be wrong
20:41 < Dagmar> The investigators in that case had already established that the laptop in question very likely *did* contain child pornography, which is why they got a judge to sign a search order for the laptop
20:42 < Dagmar> They could not have gotten the search warrant just on the basis of "we imagine there might be something in there"
20:42 < hehehe> United Kingdom
20:42 < hehehe> The Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA), Part III, activated by ministerial order in October 2007,[26] requires persons to decrypt information and/or supply keys to government representatives to decrypt information without a court order. Failure to disclose carries a maximum penalty of two years in jail, or five years in the cases of national security or child indecency.
20:42 < hehehe> in UK then can
20:42 < hehehe> my mistake
20:42 < hehehe> some activists were jailed for 2 years :P
20:42 < hehehe> in US they cant
20:43 < Dagmar> This has come after _repeatedly_ being tried in court and it requires something specifically indicating that there *will* be evidence inside the encrypted file store or device, becuase otherwise, such a search would likely be the equivalent of searching someone's entire life for the past N years
20:43 < Pentode> yeah the UK has very different laws in this regard. as far as i know they made some pretty specific changes in this regard recently, actually.
20:43 < hehehe> yes
20:43 < hehehe> so in US max they can do - refuse admission
20:43 < hehehe> unless a permanent resident
20:44 < Dagmar> Yeah but theyre not going to bother with that if you're boring and not being a d*ck
20:44 < hehehe> The Federal Bureau of Investigation may also issue national security letters that require the disclosure of keys for investigative purposes.[41] One company, Lavabit, chose to shut down rather than surrender its master private keys.
20:44 < hehehe> Dagmar: true :)
20:44 < Dagmar> If I can get through customs looking like a super-villain, you can get through a checkpoint without a fight by simply being reasonable and boring
20:45 < hehehe> yes
20:45 < hehehe> also on a related note - does any company sells min gps trackers that can fit into laptop?
20:45 < hehehe> or with a gps enabled hardware
20:45 < Pentode> the airports here are notoriously ornery
20:46 < hehehe> north airports are
20:46 < hehehe> I should of listen to my friend and went via south of US
20:46 < hehehe> :)
20:46 < Pentode> lol
20:47 < Dagmar> hehehe: Pretty much the smallest form-factor you're going to find there is a cell phone
20:47 < hehehe> Dagmar: there are car gps trackers that are smaller
20:47 < Dagmar> Yeah but the smallest they get is the size fo a pack of cigarettes
20:48 < hehehe> mask is as a charger? lol
20:48 < hehehe> fake charger
20:48 < Dagmar> Tomfoolery like that is how you get extra special strip searched
20:49 < hehehe> The STI_GL300 tracker gives you peace of mind by allowing you to track the whereabouts of anything or anyone, 24 hours a day. At only 2 ounces and 3 inches in length,
20:50 < Pentode> i've seen some gps modules the size of a pack of matches
20:50 < Pentode> naked ones, at least.
20:51 < hehehe> Pentode: those can be fitted in second hd drive space
20:51 < Pentode> yeah
20:51 < hehehe> mm
20:51 < hehehe> Pentode: is clever
20:51 < Pentode> may even be able to cram it into a pci-e spot
20:51 < hehehe> Pentode: what are those small ones called?
20:51 < Pentode> solder some leads and tack it to a power source somewhere..
20:52 < hehehe> mhmhmh to the laptop battery source?
20:52 < hehehe> its better if it has own battery
20:52 < Pentode> https://www.adafruit.com/category/58
20:52 < Pentode> some of these have little coin cell battery compartments
20:53 < Pentode> you could modify one to power it from whatever you want i suppose
20:53 < hehehe> Ultimate GPS Module - 66 channel w/10 Hz updates - MTK3339 chipset
20:54 < hehehe> how come they are not in lenovo lAPTOps
20:54 < hehehe> I guess they want people to biuy more :D
20:54 < hehehe> not to track stolen one
20:54 < Pentode> lol
20:55 < hehehe> Pentode: I wonder how to fit them in  a smartphone as well
20:55 < hehehe> then its 100% fine
20:55 < Pentode> would have to be pretty tiny
20:55 < hehehe> and LUKS + vera crypt public and hidden vol
20:55 < hehehe> :D
20:56 < Pentode> remember these sortof things are ultra low power, too. you'd have to experiment with placement. id imagine being under a laptop may be significant enough to block a signal
20:57 < Pentode> though you could make an antenna i suppose
20:57 < hehehe> sugar
20:57 < hehehe> yes run an antenna in laptop hinges
20:57 < Yamakaja> Is there a good way to see what the iptables state looks like / how much resources it consumes?
20:57 < hehehe> around hinges :D
20:57 < Yamakaja> I.e. open tcp connections, icmp requests and so on
20:58 < pi0> does vera require gui
20:58 < pi0> or can it be used command line
20:59 < hehehe> command is fine
20:59 < pi0> trying to find a luks tutorial, does it matter if it is years old, has a lot been changed in luks?
20:59 < hehehe> luks - I am yet to use
20:59 < pnbeast> pi0, a tutorial to do what?
21:00 < pi0> i have ubutnu 18.04 mini iso and virtualbox
21:00 < hehehe> Pentode: well phones are cheap so just encrypt phone I guess
21:00 < pi0> i would like to create a console only vm with ubuntu
21:00 < pi0> and vera
21:00 < hehehe> laptops - fit tracker
21:01 < hehehe> Psi-Jack: yes sometimes I am a bit sceptical yet I listed and adjust :D
21:01 < hehehe> *listen
21:02 < pi0> pnbeast: is there something i can use to accomplish that?
21:04 < jim> pi0, you're better off doing that with debian, ubuntu was designed as a gui installation
21:05 < pi0> nice i will do that, can you guide me to some tutorials
21:05 < jim> (once they copied a lot of stuff from debian :)
21:05 < jim> pi0, what do you want to do? install it?
21:05 < pnbeast> pi0, beats me, I just use encrypted external disks/flash drives.
21:06 < pi0> yes please, along with full disk encryption and vera
21:06 < pi0> no gui
21:06 < pi0> on virtualbox
21:06 < jim> can you boot a virtual box guest?
21:07 < pi0> yes
21:07 < pi0> jim: have you heard of ubuntu mini
21:08 < jim> ok... pretty much, all you have to do is boot a debian netinstall (and I don't think you would need any special firmware, just the standard netinstall)
21:08 < pi0> i think that might be almost like console debian, no gui, completely stripped
21:08 < jim> can you boot it?
21:08 < pi0> yep
21:09 < jim> I dunno what that installer does, if it's the same, then you should be able to create physical volumes for lucs
21:09 < pi0> oh i understand what you mean
21:10 < jim> but the thing is, I've not done an encrypted install
21:10 < pi0> during the installation process debian allows for luks volumes
21:10 < jim> yep
21:10 < pi0> oh i see
21:10 < jim> I'm sure of that, but (again) I've never done it myself
21:10 < pi0> i have been trying to find luks tutorials
21:11 < hehehe> ask in debian chan as well
21:11 < jim> there's not a lot to it
21:11 < hehehe> so far what I do - u also use keepass
21:11 < hehehe> and upload it to email box
21:11 < jim> is this ever going to not be virtual?
21:12 < jim> hehehe, Please spell out u as you... it would help folks who are here and are new english speakers, some don't hear u as a rhyme for you
21:13 < hehehe> jim lol this you thing :) we live in age where asics power AI
21:13 < dgurney> it also makes you look smarter
21:13 < hehehe> I feel its age of freedom
21:14 < hehehe> dgurney: yes to some people
21:15 < hehehe> I will consider this thing jim I am not against you just kinda strange :D
21:16 < jim> hehehe, it was easy... first I made a macro substitution facility for hexchat... then, plug postgres in and go!
21:16 < hehehe> https://instituteofcoding.org/
21:16 < hehehe> jim: yes it is easy however if you start to cater to every whim of fellow people do you see where it may lead too?
21:16 < hehehe> :)
21:16 < hehehe> some may say wear yellow trousers etc lol
21:17 < hehehe> i feel irc could be simple don't like what people say don't read it :)
21:17 < hehehe> already educational sector in US is in decline due to PC
21:17 < hehehe> political correctness
21:18 < dgurney> how did we get here
21:18 < hehehe> no idea lol
21:18 < pnbeast> hehehe, do you have Linux questions?  Why are you babbling incoherently?
21:18 < hehehe> pnbeast: no need
21:18 < hehehe> if you dont like u that is your issue
21:18 < hehehe> no one else
21:19 < hehehe> what is it with trying to force one phobias onto fellow people lol
21:19 < pnbeast> Maybe you can get counseling or other treatment to help you.  Good luck!
21:19 < bls> it has nothing to do with us liking it or not, it has to do with accomodating people that don't know English or English shorthand
21:19 < hehehe> bls that have been discussed many times - some older people here prefer you
21:19 < hehehe> 0 to do with accommodating people
21:20 < bls> then I suggest you go to #linux-ops and tell them you're rewriting the channel rules for them
21:20 < hehehe> nah
21:20 < hexnewbie> hehehe: That ‘you’ should be in quotes, otherwise the meaning is totally lost.
21:20 < hehehe> i wanted to share link to institute of coding
21:21 < hehehe> seems like an interesting initiative
21:21 < bls> it has an interesting side effect though. people that aren't really here for linux questions like to argue about it.
21:21 < hehehe> bls now can you move on?
21:22 < hehehe> I also did check it does not seems that ubuntu allows LUKS after install
21:22 < hehehe> at least I am yet to see it
21:22 < pi0> darnits
21:22 < bls> you can add LUKS onto a disk at any time you want. ubuntu isn't going to prevent it
21:23 < pi0> no worries i will remove and reinstall
21:23 < hehehe> cool
21:23 < dgurney> everything allows luks after install, you might just need to do it from a live media
21:23 < pi0> like additional work around you mean
21:23 < pi0> i am still try to google a workable tutorial
21:24 < hehehe> will LUKS work with EFI ?
21:24 < dgurney> yes
21:25 < hehehe> https://superuser.com/questions/649091/uefi-and-full-disk-encryption-with-lvm-on-luks
21:25 < hehehe> reading :)
21:26 < hexnewbie> hehehe: If you already have encryption setup (as your first messages here seemed to indicate), I would not go around changing it (other than, possibly, placing swap and /tmp on encrypted volume)
21:26 < mavorsa> Using XFCE, with the whisker menu, i'm trying to run a certain terminal command with the ! prefix, and then once it's finished executing, the terminal should close. however, it seems to close the terminal before its finished executing. i use the & after the command, and ive also tried using && but it doesn't seem to work. any ideas?
21:26 < hehehe> hexnewbie: well that luks entire drive encryption makes sense
21:27 < hehehe> preventing people from booting and adding 3rd party binaries
21:27 < bls> mavorsa: not sure what you mean by "! prefix" but you shouldn't need & or &&
21:27 < pi0> https://www.cyberciti.biz/hardware/howto-linux-hard-disk-encryption-with-luks-cryptsetup-command/
21:27 < pi0> this tutorial is this before or after
21:27 < pi0> the os has been installed
21:28 < jim> try booting it
21:29 < hehehe> pi0: nice one
21:29 < jim> if it boots and you can enter the luks pw, you're done
21:29 < mavorsa> bls: there are certain prefixes to execute searches, such as google, wikipedia, etc, that the whisker menu's search function supports. using ! before a command executes a terminal command, and this does work as intended. however, I'm executing a terminal command that basically brings up mpv player and streams a twitch feed. the terminal stays open while its streaming. im wanting the process to detach and close the terminal once it's successful. what's the b
21:30 < hehehe> is LUKS vulnerable in case of 0 day linux kernel exploits?
21:30 < dgurney> that depends entirely on the exploit
21:31 < hehehe> true
21:31 < hexnewbie> A potential exploit affecting LUKS sounds like the kind of exploit that would affect all disk crypto solutions simultaneously.
21:32 < dgurney> indeed
21:32 < hehehe> yes true
21:32 < pnbeast> mavorsa, in certain programs, typing "!<something" on a command line allows you to "shell out", to call an external shell and execute the chosen program in that shell.  Is that what you're doing?
21:32 < pnbeast> Er, "!<something>"
21:33 < bls> this sounds like an issue with this whisker menu thing more than an issue with shell syntax
21:33 < hehehe> the solution - say exchange cold wallets - air gaped machine with hardware firewall blocking all incoming - just to send data to network
21:33 < hehehe> and log off
21:33 < hehehe> :)
21:33 < hehehe> air gaped and 24/7 cctv monitored + physical security on site
21:33 < dgurney> gaped machine? god, what do you do with your hardware?
21:33 < mavorsa> pnbeast: i believe in this case, the whisker menu uses it to open a terminal first, insert the command and execute it. that is my guess, since the terminal does open and it stays open running the command.
21:34 < hehehe> dgurney: have you read about south korean exchange hack?
21:34 < hehehe> in the news
21:34 < lnnb> did they have to restore from backups?
21:34 < pnbeast> mavorsa, I see.  That I am not familiar with.  Good luck.
21:35 < hehehe> Innb nah it looks like they lost da coins, did not use cold storage properly
21:35 < lnnb> "lost"
21:35 < michaelrose> anyone familiar with a root zfs pool + luks?
21:36 < hexnewbie> hehehe: 1) Get a time machine, 2) Travel with your computer to a few million years ago. 3) PROFIT. Nobody can get in it now. (You can even safely watch the porn outdoors, if you aren't concerned about getting eaten by velociraptors)
21:36 < dgurney> I guess you missed my joke about you misspelling gapped
21:36 < hehehe> lol
21:36 < hehehe> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rgGEkI510Q
21:36 < hehehe> my man
21:37 < hehehe> after cabin is built, install LUKS lol
21:39 < pi0> ha!
21:39 < pi0> if you can get power there
21:39 < pi0> to even boot the laptop
21:40 < hexnewbie> michaelrose: Root on ZFS is not recommended. If anything happens to your ZFS utilities, pool cache files or kernel modules, you won't be able to boot. Things as simple as an OS upgrade, or power failure during kernel security update, may make your system unbootable.
21:42 < hehehe> pi0:  hydro generator ;)
21:42 < hehehe> jim: are you watching it? :D
21:43 < hehehe> its like analog of linus making kernel by himself only he did not
21:43 < jim> I'm actually out the door :)
21:44 < hehehe> this is true man! :D
21:44 < pnbeast> You must have a wireless keyboard.
21:45 < bipul> Hello anyone help me to find out the 1st pattern https://regex101.com/r/ai3PT9/1
21:48 < pnbeast> Wow, that crappy website actually redirects to a whole webpage dedicated to explaining how to enable JS in different browsers.
21:48 < pnbeast> bipul, O'Reilly used to have a large book with extensive detail on various regex engines, in case you're interested.  I know you're not, but I thought I'd try, anyway.
21:49 < bipul> I'm like studying regular expression.
21:50 < pnbeast> Then the O'Reilly book would be like great!
21:50 < bipul> Even i would love if you can get me the guide to convert regex into finite state Automataa
21:50 < bipul> And vice versa
21:51 < jim> one thing about regilar expressioins... can't do anything like parentheses...
21:51 < bipul> How would i convert my regex code into DFA(Determinastic Finite state automata)
21:52 < jim> so you can't do (), (((()()))), <sometag><othertag></othertag></sometag>
21:52 < bipul> Actully i was trying to solve this https://regex.sketchengine.co.uk/cgi/ex3.cgi
21:52 < jim> html tags... kinda like parentheses...
21:52 < bipul> jim, Sorry i don't get you.
21:52 < bipul> ?
21:52 < pnbeast> bipul, then you might prefer a text from a "theory of computing" course.  That will focus on DFA stuff a lot more.  The O'Reilly book may not even mention automata.
21:53 < bipul> pnbeast, I'm familiar with fundamental BRE and  ERE
21:53 < jim> bipul, any language that has parenthese or something like it, is not a "regular" language, so at the very least, doing those kinds of things will be hard
21:53 < bipul> Okay
21:55 < Ameisen> Is there a more powerful terminal-based editor that's similar to nano/edit, and not vim/emacs?
21:55 < Drakonan> ok so how do i get minicom to connect to my serial port?
21:55 < Drakonan> i see the config looks right for it but idk how to choose where its looking
21:55 < michaelrose> hexnewbie, been doing this for a while now it seems to be fine
21:55 < ghosalmartin> anyone know a channel to talk about bluetooth subsystem? or will here do?
21:56 < pnbeast> Ameisen, pico is very similar to nano.
21:56 < michaelrose> hexnewbie, I'm just trying to figure out how to arrange it to mount the luks devices prior to importing the pool
21:56 < pnbeast> In fact...
21:56 < Drakonan> weird it seems to auto onncet to it but something must be wrong the baud rate is right
21:57 < hehehe> Pio: does luks works now?
21:58 < hehehe> I plan to install it too
21:59 < pi0> tryin
21:59 < hehehe> where are you at?
22:00 < hehehe> maybe easier - copy all flies to usb , reinstall ubuntu and copy them to ready luks drive?
22:00 < pnbeast> bipul, I played for a little bit and made a regex that matches the first column and not the second!  Do I get a prize?
22:00 < pi0> well the thing is that i am trying to do this on a virtualbox
22:00 < pi0> i killed my previous attempt
22:01 < pi0> and rebooting the os again
22:01 < bipul> pnbeast, You will just add to your knowledge.
22:02 < pnbeast> bipul, I didn't really add to it.  I just, well, exercised it.
22:02 < pi0> hehehe: which os were you going to try
22:02 < bipul> Yes, :) that's what i meant
22:03 < pnbeast> bipul, excellent.  I think it might have been better with a text description of what the columns can/cannot contain, but my regex is complete across the sample strings.
22:04 < bipul> Between it's nice website where i can take help to draw  space state diagram
22:04 < bipul> https://regexper.com/
22:04 < Drakonan> Can a linux expert help me figure out what im missing i think i dont have the knowledge for some piece of this im following the insrtuctions exactly but idk i must be using a newer version of something that must be slightly different
22:07 < Drakonan> http://wiki.espressobin.net/tiki-index.php?page=Boot+from+removable+storage+-+OpenWrt
22:08 < Drakonan> im here and followed the insrtuction verbatim but when i go to run bootmmc it says file not found boot/Image
22:08 < Drakonan> file not found fdt.dtb
22:11 < Drakonan> ok i think i missed something the first time sadly its just continually rebooting
22:15 < darkmeson> two things irt the veracrypt vs luks discussion
22:16 < darkmeson> firstly, cryptsetup can handle opening VC/TC volumes, so either one will be about as simple as the other once created and the relevant configuration options set in the distro
22:17 < Drakonan> anyone have an espresso bin?!?!?!?1
22:18 < darkmeson> the other thing is that, afaik, veracrypt/truecrypt is the only portable encryption we have. You'd have to use it if you wanted to multi-boot Linux, FreeBSD, Windows, and others from the same FDE-encrypted disk for instance
22:19 < darkmeson> the audit of the truecrypt code actually turned up nothing major, so either one is PROBABLY about as good as the other, and which you'd use is totally up to preference
22:20 < hehehe>  pi0 lubuntu :D
22:20 < hehehe> : )))
22:20 < Drakonan> it just keeps repeating over and over again any idae what i need to do? https://pastebin.com/ajFFgQX6
22:21 < darkmeson> Drakonan: you might find ##hardware or ##electronics (I think there's an openwrt-specific room too) helpful for things like that
22:21 < Psi-Jack> Drakonan: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
22:22 < Psi-Jack> Drakonan: And ?!?!?!??1 doesn't help anything. Just sayin.
22:22 < Drakonan> do you have an alternative
22:22 < Psi-Jack> See /topic
22:22 < Drakonan> idc what pastebin that used to be the way we did it
22:22 < Psi-Jack> English is also preferred. :p
22:22 < Drakonan> https://paste.linux.community/view/d46e149f
22:23 < Drakonan> i have asked in openwrt but this isn't openwrt i dont believe
22:23 < darkmeson> Drakonan: pastebin.com blocks Tor afair, so you pretty much guarantee no Tor user will help you by using it
22:24 < Drakonan> that's fine i really dont care what paste url i use
22:24 < Psi-Jack> Well, tor users are immaterial anyway. :p
22:24 < Drakonan> whatever is best for yall
22:24 < Drakonan> just trying to get the question out there
22:25 < darkmeson> Psi-Jack: nope, we just value our privacy :P
22:25 < rascul> eww privacy
22:25 < darkmeson> Drakonan: it's not finding any usb devices connected
22:26 < Drakonan> i dont have any so that isnt a problem for me
22:26 < pi0> do ppl usually jump from vpn 2 vpn for added security?
22:26 < Psi-Jack> darkmeson: The irony of your statement. :)
22:26 < Drakonan> im trying to boot directly off the mmc and it detects that
22:26 < Psi-Jack> You're on IRC. You have no privacy. :p
22:26 < darkmeson> s/usb devices/usb storage devices/
22:26 < Psi-Jack> pi0: "people"
22:26 < Drakonan> it detects it... if i do mmcinfo i get
22:26 < Drakonan> and if i do ext4ls i get all the file structure
22:27 < Sveta> kwin crashes with segfault, whats a similar wm to try?
22:27 < Sveta> it doesnt let me debug
22:27 < pi0> irc does not offer any type of privacy
22:27 < pi0> besides freenode are there other huge irc networks
22:27 < darkmeson> Psi-Jack: ah, but I do. anyone who can link me to this pseudonymous identity also knows that I'll sue them in a heartbeat for disseminating it without my permission, and I take steps to ensure that that's the only way for it to be disseminated
22:28 < Psi-Jack> darkmeson: YOu mean the identity you had to use an email address in order to register your nickname with and identify to to simply have access to communicate in this channel?
22:28 < Psi-Jack> Bazinga!
22:28 < darkmeson> basically, using Tor all but guarantees that they can't prove it, which means they'd end up on the wrong side of a slander, defamation, or libel suit
22:28 < michaelrose> darkmeson, on what basis would you sue?
22:28 < Umeaboy> How is it possible for make to NOT see a file that locate sees?
22:29 < Psi-Jack> darkmeson: Oh, and sue? Yeah. You'd waste money on an already loosing case that no lawyer would even take, :)
22:29 < michaelrose> darkmeson, hahahahahaha you know you can't sue anon right?
22:29 < Umeaboy> Here's the make error: https://hastebin.com/nilujaleji.pl
22:29 < EugenA> how can I run root cronjob "wmctrl -l" go get open windows for user "eugen" ?
22:29 < pi0> can you vpn then tor?
22:29 < Umeaboy> And here's what locate says: https://hastebin.com/iqapiriqux
22:29 < mouses> Umeaboy: assuming you are using GNU make... you can skip a file by changing the makefile - SRC_FILES = $(filter-out src/bar.cpp, $(wildcard src/*.cpp))
22:30 < mouses> that would filter *.cpp from the make, for example
22:30 < michaelrose> darkmeson, you would have to prove actual damages and further that they were lying or acting with reckless disregard for the truth.  Actually believing with good reason that you are connected with your psuedonym would dismantle any libel/slander suit
22:30 < Psi-Jack> darkmeson: Sorry, but you sound like one of those bafoons that cry out "sahcyuritaaahh", but knows nothing about actual security or privacy. :)
22:31 < darkmeson> michaelrose: let me be clear. I never say my real name online, and all sensitive documents go directly to offline media that sits on the shelf most of the time
22:31 < ShapeShifter499> hi
22:31 < Umeaboy> mouses: I'd like to assume that AOSP/Lineage use GNU Make.
22:32 < mouses> Umeaboy: i'm not sure
22:32 < Umeaboy> Any way to tell?
22:32 < darkmeson> that means the only people who know are people I know irl, and it wouldn't be that hard to figure out which was the leak
22:32 < Umeaboy> make --help ?
22:32 < michaelrose> darkmeson, I'm saying that you can't realisticly threaten anyone to keep your secret safe
22:32 < michaelrose> your threats are based in failure to understand libel/slander laws
22:33 < michaelrose> truth is an absolute defense in the states anyway for one
22:33 < darkmeson> Psi-Jack: if it keeps your ego sufficiently inflated to believe everyone else a clueless idiot, then by all means, continue. I don't care :P
22:34 < darkmeson> michaelrose: you've obviously never heard of FUD
22:34 < darkmeson> even the threat of lawsuits is enough to keep people from doing the wrong things most of the time
22:34 < darkmeson> the rest is mostly a matter of making sure you only tell people you can trust to begin with
22:34 < jim> darkmeson, please don't start fights
22:35 < michaelrose> so you think you can intimidate people smart enough to figure out who you are but too dumb to google
22:35 < darkmeson> and in any case, as I'd said previously, it's mostly a matter of ensuring I don't find myself on the wrong end of information asymmetry before the system self-corrects for it
22:37 < darkmeson> pi0: you'd probably want to Tor and then VPN. doing it the other way around still leaves you vulnerable to the VPN provider eavesdropping. but for most people just a VPN or Tor alone is probably fine
22:38 < darkmeson> michaelrose: smart people aren't aggressive, and aggressive people aren't smart. do with that what you will, but this is highly offtopic and has been for a while
22:40 < michaelrose> you can't say nonsense things and then reply that it is offtopic lol but ok
22:41 < notmike> you can do whatever you want in this post-truth world
22:41 < pi0> gotcha
22:47 < darkmeson> michaelrose: I'll tell you like I told the other user. Find a good security group or two and get schooled
22:48 < darkmeson> This isn't the time or the place, and I certainly have nothing to prove to any random internet person
22:58 < hans_> when i set GRUB_TIMEOUT to 1, it starts counting from 3, any idea why?
22:58 < hans_> GRUB 2.02~beta2-36ubuntu3.18 , on ubuntu 16.04-server edition
23:02 < kamura> oh man
23:02 < kamura> thought I'd lost my password manager db
23:02 < kamura> never felt closer to death
23:03 < iceb0x_> back that shit up
23:03 < iceb0x_> :>
23:03 < darkmeson> hans_: did you run update-grub afterward?
23:04 < hans_> darkmeson, yes. also, setting it to 3 also makes it count from 3
23:06 < darkmeson> The boot sector of the boot device isn't getting updated for some reason, most likely
23:07 < darkmeson> Excuse me, it's grub2, so it might not be pulling its configuration from the right partition or somethng
23:07 < weaksauce> is there a way to find out which files bash is loading for the config? setting bash as a shell and then opening up a terminal sources something completely different than if I call bash from inside that shell. (this is a mac for full disclosure but i figured someone here would know)
23:10 < darkmeson> hans_: you can manually force an update if you know the right device with 'grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg && grub-install /dev/sdX' and see if that helps
23:12 < darkmeson> weaksauce: 'bash --verbose' afair
23:12 < hans_> nvm, turns out the setting in /etc/default/grub was being overwritten by a later config file, figured it out now :)
23:12 < weaksauce> darkmeson can you set your shell to that command?
23:12 < weaksauce> does chsh take extra arguments
23:13 < darkmeson> make a test user, set it to it, and see ;)
23:14 < weaksauce> will try
23:14 < Loshki> weaksauce: 'man bash' and 'man chsh'. The come back and ask...
23:15 < weaksauce> well lucky for me i already did that... it's just not loading the file i expect from the docs and throws an error that i can't find in any bash config file
23:16 < Loshki> weaksauce: the exact text of the error message?
23:17 < weaksauce> -bash: /usr/local/bin/virtualenvwrapper_bashrc: No such file or directory
23:18 < Loshki> weaksauce: and does virtualenvwrapper_bashrc appear in any of your bash startup files? Your man page should tell you what these files are. Note that files can include other files, but that's where you start.
23:20 < weaksauce> Loshki i did check the usual suspects... i only have a bashrc right now. doing a grep of all the files in my home directory and etc doesn't list that string anywhere
23:20 < darkmeson> weaksauce: you'll typically have to make a wrapper script to pass in arguments to a shell, which may or may not also involve adding it to /etc/shells depending on system configuration
23:21 < darkmeson> that's not something you'd typically want to experiment with on an active user in any case, and you'd typically avoid it for everything other than highly temporary testing like this because of all of the security implications
23:22 < darkmeson> weaksauce: /etc/profile*, /etc/\*bashrc\*
23:23 < Loshki> weaksauce: there are only a few places that bash reads automatically on startup (not sure if it's at all standard between Linuxes, which is why you have to read your *own* man page) and they in turn source other stuff. Try verbose as someone suggested, and if all else fails, there's a bash debugger (which I've never used, preferring to read through bashrc files). Also note that a login shell runs different startups to a non-login shell.
23:26 < jim> weaksauce: when bash reads which startup file, should be in man bash in the FILES section
23:27 < jim> it's a short read
23:27 < jim> (unlike the rest of the man page)
23:31 < darkmeson> if all else fails, 'strace -f -o /tmp/bash.strace bash', type 'exit', and 'grep open /tmp/bash.strace'
23:32 < fr0tzed> github.com/androidhardening. Guy please archive Copperhead OS before james will take it down!
23:33 < weaksauce> darkmeson so when i type bash at a bash prompt it loads the .bashrc file like i'd expect
23:33 < weaksauce> this is just when it's starting up a new instance of a terminal or tab
23:33 < darkmeson> fr0tzed: why don't you just fork it yourself as a github user?
23:35 < fr0tzed> darkmeson, because James the ceo, is sending DMCA claims..
23:35 < darkmeson> then you're asking people to commit potential copyright infringement here, why, exactly?
23:39 < fr0tzed> darkmeson, I see you don't know the story
23:39 < fr0tzed> see: https://www.reddit.com/r/CopperheadOS/comments/8qdnn3/goodbye/
23:41 < fr0tzed> and: https://twitter.com/DanielMicay/status/1006961868412473351
23:41 < michaelrose> the DMCA claims are total nonsense
23:41 < phinxy> Is it not the usual internal disagreement and forking happening?
23:41 < michaelrose> its using the DMCA to shut down speech not keep people from copying
23:42 < michaelrose> essentially there are only 2 parties involved a business guy and a programmer, the programmer purports to actually own all the ip and both are half owners of the company
23:42 < michaelrose> the business guy and the programmer disagree on the direction of the company and the business guy believes he can fire the person who did all the work, owns half the company, and all the IP
23:42 < fr0tzed> both own 50%, James the bussiness guy kicked Daniel the programmer without a reason.
23:43 < fr0tzed> James is now trying to claim the code
23:43 < michaelrose> the programmer claims to have created some of the code prior to entering the business relationship and to have never assigned any of it to the company
23:44 < michaelrose> so he either half owns the IP or owns all of it
23:45 < darkmeson> that's still too many layers of legally dubious
23:46 < fr0tzed> at's still too many layers of legally dubiou
23:46 < fr0tzed> lol
23:46 < fr0tzed> https://github.com/yegortimoshenko/copperhead-takeover
23:47 < darkmeson> well, if you want to find people who care about "freedom" and have no qualms with potential copyright infringement, you're in the wrong place
23:48 < darkmeson> Most of that sort likes to hang their hats on i2p or Tor. darknets are "only used by criminals" after all :)
23:49 < Dagmar> *many*
23:51 < NewbProgrammer10> Should I read the whole man page for bash?
23:51 < NewbProgrammer10> Is it worth it?
23:52 < MrElendig> yes
23:52 < morf> no :)
23:53 < morf> (but otherwise yes)
23:54 < jim> NewbProgrammer10, maybe you'd like the bash info page better, it's easier to read
23:54 < MrElendig> read the wooledge bash guide
23:55 < jim> NewbProgrammer10, what languages do you want to learn?
23:55 < MrElendig> /q phrik bashguide
23:56 < michaelrose> darkmeson, what copyright infringement? Pretty sure the creator of IP and co owner of IP can't infringe
23:57 < jim> NewbProgrammer10, for new folks, I usually recommend they get good at the shell they want to use, and also a scripting language like python, perl or lua
23:58 < michaelrose> darkmeson, did you not notice the part where the creator is sending takedowns to anyone talking about his nonsense? Because we don't actually punish people for sending false take downs
23:58 < weaksauce> darkmeson the strace thing worked and i am dumb
--- Log closed Mon Jun 18 00:00:02 2018