--- Log opened Mon Jun 18 00:00:02 2018
00:00 < jim> NewbProgrammer10, I also recommend that you read a different man page every day, even if the first time you come away not understanding it... you'll at least see where things are in the page and get a general feel for how a man page (which is mainly "the linux reference manual") says things
00:00 < darkmeson> weaksauce: dumb would be if you let the same thing bite you again ;)
00:00 < darkmeson> otherwise it's called living and learning
00:00 < weaksauce> trying to track down an environment bug and got bitten by some old configs
00:00 < weaksauce> oh well :)
00:01 < darkmeson> michaelrose: I saw nothing of the sort, but I DID see that ownership is being contested and no indication of it having been resolved yet
00:02 < michaelrose> the ownership of repos which merely contain descriptions of the happenings between parties isn't contested
00:02 < michaelrose> there is no reason to take such nonsense seriously
00:16 < NewbProgrammer10> jim: ok :)
00:16 < NewbProgrammer10> I just want to learn whatever programming languages the industry throws at me.
00:34 < Psi-Jack> Welp. I have successfully made my first Flatpak packages.
00:44 < srukle> Congrats!
00:45 < Psi-Jack> Was actually pretty dang easy. Even for the special source package I pulled from.
00:46 < handturkey> what's flatpack
00:46 < Psi-Jack> Flatpak is Flatpak
00:47 < handturkey> sorted
00:47 < Psi-Jack> Kinda a global "works on all distros" package concept.
00:47 < handturkey> for software
00:47 < Psi-Jack> Correct.
00:47 < handturkey> what'd you make
00:47 < Psi-Jack> SyncTERM 1.0 and 1.1 (beta)
00:48 < handturkey> what's that?
00:48 < Psi-Jack> It's a BBS Terminal.
00:48 < NewbProgrammer10> The hardest thing I have to do (still can't do it) is to submit and maintain a new Debian package.
00:48 < NewbProgrammer10> These guys make it fricking *hard*
00:48 < Psi-Jack> I made a Debian package. Pain in the freaking arse.
00:49 < handturkey> I don't like debian
00:49 < Psi-Jack> rpm spec, no problem. Debian debian/* PITA
00:49 < handturkey> I just kinda use arch
00:49 < handturkey> I think I hate it less
00:49 < Psi-Jack> Oh, I definitely like Debian more than Arch. heh
00:50 < handturkey> I don't think I do
00:50 < handturkey> it's hard to tell
00:50 < handturkey> they're all about as bad as each other
00:50 < Psi-Jack> Though this weekend. I chose to go a different route and go full on Solus.
00:50 < handturkey> if there was a perfect distro I would have found it, so I went with the one that has the least FUCKING insane rules
00:50 < Psi-Jack> handturkey: Kindly mind the language
00:50 < handturkey> sorry I didn't notice
00:51 < handturkey> debian has insane rules though
00:51 < Psi-Jack> Solus is nice in that it's a desktop designed distro, and that's it's primary purpose. :)
00:51 < handturkey> "the debian way"
00:51 < handturkey> solus?
00:51 < Psi-Jack> Yes, Solus.
00:51 < handturkey> there is no freaking way I am distro hopping any more
00:51 < handturkey> I got this set up how I like it
00:51 < handturkey> it looks nice and it works
00:52 < handturkey> that's it. I'm not fixing what FINALLY isn't broken
00:52 < Psi-Jack> Arch breaks constantly though. LOL
00:52 < handturkey> I don't find it breaks
00:53 < handturkey> I remember once network manager broke
00:53 < handturkey> on this thinkpad it's really solid
00:53 < Psi-Jack> Just wait a few weeks. They'll update some big batch of packages like Qt 5.11, that breaks so many things. :)
00:53 < handturkey> I use gnome
00:53 < handturkey> I really don't find that things break often
00:53 < Psi-Jack> Yes, but you likely use /something/ that's Qt-based. :)
00:53 < handturkey> it's better than using three year old software
00:54 < handturkey> I can't really think of anything?
00:54 < epicmetal> Psi-Jack: you have to rebuild your AUR stuff against the new packages, is that what you mean?
00:54 < handturkey> oh yeah there's a few tools
00:54 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, Solus is rolling-release too. They just test more before actually pushing to live.
00:54 < handturkey> I set it up so it all rebuilds itself
00:54 < Psi-Jack> epicmetal: No.
00:54 < epicmetal> Psi-Jack: what have you found that breaks?
00:54 < Psi-Jack> epicmetal: Upstream breaks things, which breaks things in Arch.
00:54 < epicmetal> Ah
00:54 < epicmetal> That old chestnut
00:55 < Psi-Jack> Like Qt 5.11, defaulting to Wayland rendering and "deprecating" qt5_use_module by completely RENAMING it, and some egl functionality is completely broken.
00:55 < handturkey> I seriously don't care about whatever you guys are talking about
00:55 < handturkey> I actually remember the last time something broke
00:55 < handturkey> it was networkmanager
00:55 < handturkey> so I had to roll back to the previous version and wait for someone to fix it
00:56 < handturkey> which was hard to figure out with NO internet
00:56 < epicmetal> Psi-Jack: what distro to you recommend for daily driver on laptop?
00:57 < epicmetal> do you*
00:57 < handturkey> I use arch as my only driver
00:57 < handturkey> sometimes I  have to boot windows D:
00:57  * mgolisch too
00:57 < epicmetal> As do I
00:57 < epicmetal> I've been thinking of giving Void another shot for simplicity's sake
00:58 < handturkey> but we all use different computers and if it's some franken-screwup of mashed together parts
00:58 < handturkey> this is a pretty bog stock thinkpad
00:58 < handturkey> well. it's a thinkpad
00:59 < handturkey> you can cram it full of stuff but it's still a thinkpad
01:00 < epicmetal> handturkey: thinkpad here too
01:00 < mgolisch> mine is a bit old but still works great
01:01 < mgolisch> x220
01:01 < handturkey> hah
01:01 < epicmetal> Can't justify dropping $1400 on an XPS which has half the ram of my 8 year old ThinkPad
01:01 < handturkey> ditto
01:01 < epicmetal> mgolisch: same
01:01 < handturkey> put a ssd in it and it's great
01:01 < epicmetal> SSD and 16GB RAM
01:01 < handturkey> I put one where this stupid cellular thing was
01:01 < epicmetal> It's just the trackpad and screen resolution that suck
01:01 < epicmetal> 768
01:01 < handturkey> the screen res is annoying when things scale to full hd
01:02 < epicmetal> It's more just for websites
01:02 < handturkey> yeah it's not quite high enough
01:02 < handturkey> you can actually put a full hd screen in it
01:02 < epicmetal> I like 1600x900 like the Air
01:02 < handturkey> no big deal
01:02 < epicmetal> handturkey: I never thought to do that
01:02 < Psi-Jack> epicmetal: Hmmm.. Well, like I just said earlier, I switched to Solus this weekend. :)
01:02 < handturkey> wait I'll get you the link
01:02 < mgolisch> yeah but its quite small and i usualy only work on it with a monitor connected
01:02 < epicmetal> Psi-Jack: oh, I just joined in
01:02 < handturkey> I already upgraded this thing with an IPS
01:02 < handturkey> it's nice.
01:02 < handturkey> and it looks like utter crap, nobody has ever tried to steal it
01:02 < handturkey> duct tape
01:03 < handturkey> chunks missing
01:03 < Psi-Jack> epicmetal: Ahh. Yeah. Solus, then.
01:03 < handturkey> dents
01:03 < epicmetal> Haha mine is taped up too
01:03 < handturkey> there's velcro on the lid to hold dongles and stuff
01:03 < handturkey> it looks like garbage
01:03 < handturkey> IPS screen is the best thing you can do other than the ssd and ram
01:03 < epicmetal> I'll look into it
01:03 < handturkey> I'm thinking of squeezing another ssd into the expresscard slot that I never use
01:03 < handturkey> all that does is provide a point to smash more plastic off
01:04 < epicmetal> so you're running FHD IPS in the X220, handturkey ?
01:04 < handturkey> nah. just an IPS
01:04 < epicmetal> handturkey: what res
01:04 < handturkey> it REALLY makes a huge difference
01:04 < handturkey> normal res, I got it out of my dead x220 tablet
01:04 < epicmetal> oh
01:04 < handturkey> it's just got sweet viewing angles and awesome colour
01:05 < handturkey> !google
01:05 < bls> no bots in here
01:05 < handturkey> http://x220.mcdonnelltech.com/resources/
01:05 < handturkey> this is about everything people have done to the x220
01:06 < handturkey> speaker upgrades, full HD screen upgrade, all sorts
01:07 < handturkey> I put the advanced menu bios in
01:07 < handturkey> whitelist for better stuff
01:07 < handturkey> you can hotswap drives out of the hard drive bay
01:07 < handturkey> mess with cpu settings
01:07 < handturkey> do egpu stuff
01:08 < epicmetal> handturkey: interesting resource
01:10 < handturkey> there's useful things
01:10 < sacules> nice, is there an equivalent one for the t430?
01:10 < handturkey> is the screen the same one?
01:10 < handturkey> the keyboards are the same
01:10 < handturkey> between x2X0 and t4X0
01:12 < sacules> screen is 14" on the t430 tho
01:12 < handturkey> maybe. check the crazy russian site
01:12 < Trel> is there a way with xinit to specifiy the start script inline without having to have a secondary file?
01:13 < sacules> i've seen some chinese 1080p chinese displays that come with a converter, but heard that some have flickering issues
01:13 < bls> Trel: yes, just give the command to startx
01:15 < Trel> Isn't startx itself a script?
01:15 < Trel> And doesn't it automatically read certain default files?
01:16 < bls> yes and yes
01:17 < Trel> Which is NOT what I want to do.  I'm trying to call xinit with a specific script as a 'one' liner.
01:17 < bls> what's stopping you?
01:17 < Trel> I can't find a way to do it
01:17 < bls> `xinit script`
01:17 < Trel> that's referencing the script, I want to make it inline
01:18 < bls> the put it inline
01:18 < bls> then
01:18 < Trel> I'm not seeing any way to do so.  Where would it go and in what format?
01:19 < bls> the same way you put any other script inline
01:20 < bls> xinit sh -c 'echo foo; echo bar; /path/to/window/manager'
01:20 < mavorsa> anyone know how privacy friendly qutebrowser can be? and i don't mean just surfing in incognito mode but as far as extensions/plugins go? i'm hoping to see if i can replace firefox with it.
01:21 < Trel> bls: thanks, I was never quite familiar with that way (sh -c for anything), I'll give it a try
01:21 < nbm> mavorsa: use tor browser
01:21 < nbm> or firefox with a vpn and keybinding extension
01:21 < bls> why are you trying to replace firefox?
01:22 < mavorsa> nbm: i know about tor browser, but its not designed to be used as daily browser. mainly, i like qutebrowser's minimal interface, its something i don't think i can accomplish with firefox.
01:22 < nbm> same
01:23 < nbm> dunno man, dont have big hopes for qutebrowser, it's managed by just 1 dude
01:24 < Trel> bls: I can't seem to get it to work at all
01:25 < mavorsa> if i stay behind a vpn the whole time, what difference would that make between qutebrowser and firefox with: uBlock Origin, Decentraleyes, CookieAutoDelete, and Random User Agent extensions?
01:26 < Psi-Jack> VPN == Bridge Networks, VPN != Security or Protection.
01:26 < Trel> xinit sh -c 'anything' ignores it and reads .xinitrc
01:27 < mavorsa> Psi-Jack: I figure it can depending on one's threat model. If you don't want our ISP seeing whats going on for example, then it does have its use
01:27 < Psi-Jack> You figure wrong. :p
01:27 < bls> might need to give the full path to sh, that or you could have an xinit that's disabled that methodology
01:27 < Trel> I'll try the full path, that may work
01:28 < mavorsa> Psi-Jack: Well, you're making your claims, so could you explain them?
01:29 < bls> all a VPN is going to do is change which party has first access to your decoded traffic
01:29 < Psi-Jack> No, I don't care to explain obvious.
01:29 < mavorsa> Psi-Jack: Then you're wasting keystrokes. XD
01:30 < Trel> bls: thanks! it was that it needed the full path to sh
01:30 < Psi-Jack> No YOU!
01:30 < mavorsa> bls: That is a reasonable consideration, though stripped down, but okay
01:30 < bls> cheers! looks like there's a `[ -x ]` type check somewhere in there
01:31 < DynV> for a 32-bit 1 Gb (RAM) 2005 laptop, I'd like to put a live GUI OS on a 256 Mb USB key, so hopefully it won't be > 100 Mb. It needs to have a method of easily mount drives (doesn't need to be automatic but no text has to be typed), connect to ethernet & WIFI, install programs, possibly have a browser that the user can access HTML Gmail, suggestions?
01:31 < bls> and if it fails that, the data gets passed as arguments to xinitrc
01:31 < bls> DynV: not many distros still supporting 32-bit. maybe check out porteus
01:34 < jim> Psi-Jack, it may be obvious to you (and what? I have no idea!), but not so obvious to someone else. you're not trying to explain this to yourself (and, as always, no one has to help if for any reason they can't or don't want to)
01:35 < jim> debian I believe still supports 32bit intel
01:36 < jim> (but as you note, that probably isn't going to last)
01:36 < CoJaBo> Not much usecase for having 32-bit support anymore, at least on x86
01:36 < bls> ah, yeah, thought they were still supporting it, just you were on your own for install media. looks like that's not yet the case
01:37 < jim> Psi-Jack, and even as it is your right to not help, don't add quips designed to make the other person feel bad
01:37 < CoJaBo> If you have a 32-bit machine, it won't run a modenr distro, because your gfx card is too old.
01:38 < dannylee> ok
01:38 < jim> allright?
01:38 < bls> unless the distro still has packages for your GPU, then it will work
01:39 < hassoon> 'evening
01:39 < jim> hi
01:39 < hassoon> or 'mornng, or whatever
01:39 < DynV> CoJaBo: I can watch youtube videos on Win 7 on it
01:39 < jim> '$tz?
01:40 < hassoon> jim: yep, depends
01:40 < bls> hassoon: http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
01:40 < DynV> for a non-frustrating experience I have to put videos at 360p and have the player as small as possible
01:40 < CoJaBo> DynV: Sure, but it won't run Lubuntu/Ubuntu/Kubuntu Bionic; it crashes before it gets to the desktop.
01:41 < bls> heh, yes, he already knows because he's tried it on your computer
01:41 < hassoon> bls: it's like irc's definition of time
01:41 < hassoon> bls: or the timezone on the irc cyber planet
01:41 < CoJaBo> DynV: Xubuntu works fine, fwiw. Also, you can get higher res by disabling VP8/9 support in Firefox.
01:41 < devxxx> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtM_lPkI7w0
01:41 < hassoon> irc is the planet, and channels are countries
01:41 < hassoon> ahah
01:42 < DynV>  VP?
01:42 < CoJaBo> DynV: VP8/9 are the default codecs for youtube
01:42 < CoJaBo> But they are too taxing for older systems; if you disable them, it'll fallback on h.264, which will play a lot better (tho still not great)
01:43 < DynV> the reason I put it as small as possible is the graphics capabilities are lackluster.
01:43 < DynV> would doing what you proposed help?
01:43 < CoJaBo> Most likely, yes.
01:43 < CoJaBo> On my Pentium 4, it'd struggle to play 144p, but after disabling VP*, it can play perfectly smooth 360p =D
01:45 < CoJaBo> You can probably get at least 480p, OR the ability to enlarge 360p ones. If you're really lucky, you might even be able to get 144p to go fullscreen without freezing
01:46 < DynV> playing MP4s its still slow though
01:46 < DynV> perhaps I should try with MP2s
01:47 < DynV> so disabling VP makes the files larger right? any idea by how much? +50%? 2X?
01:49 < frwlkkaw> hello, on ubuntu 18 how do i disable that screen that comes after blank screen
01:49 < frwlkkaw> not the lockscreen
01:52 < sacules> DynV: I'd try AntiX :)
01:55 < epicmetal> sacules: so what's the difference between antix and devuan?
01:55 < bls> switching distros isn't going to make your computer faster
01:55 < epicmetal> they're both systemd-free distros based on debian stable
01:56 < triceratux> the antiX guys have been installing icewm & rox desktop for forever
01:56 < epicmetal> aren't they just in the main debian repos, i.e. both distros would have them?
01:56 < frwlkkaw> guys how do i disable that annoying screen after it comes from blank screen, i have to press enter or swipe with mouse
01:57 < frwlkkaw> i just disabled lock screen and still comes
01:57 < triceratux> epicmetal: yep all that stuff is in all the repos. someone has to install & configure it. question is should it be you or not
01:58 < epicmetal> ah :)
01:59 < epicmetal> that must be what they mean when they vaguely talk about "mepis magic"?
01:59 < triceratux> ;)
02:02 < j3kyl_> Did yall tried functional distros as NixOS and GuixSD?
02:02 < bls> yes, we're all running them both right now
02:02 < j3kyl_> So easy to reproduce installing, superb!
02:03 < j3kyl_> bls: hehehe
02:03 < j3kyl_> epicmetal: GuixSD is systemd free too!
02:05 < Aph3x-WL> why do you want that? systemd is best
02:08 < j3kyl_> Aph3x-WL: hey, we are all running non proprietary software, there is no such a thing  as "best". we are free to hack our system as we see fit and it works, that is what matters in the end
02:14 < Aph3x-WL> i would be willing to bet that the majority of people in this channel are not running completely proprietary-free :/
02:15 < ace510> hah, i'm running Chatzilla, the Twitch app and Pycharm, you got me there
02:17 < mavorsa> i think i have a couple proprietaries installed but as far as i can think, every thing thing i normally use is pretty foss, i'm surprised to actually realise now... hmm
02:22 < justsomeguy> Hi ##Linux. Out of curiosity, if you were to start hiring for a Jr. Linux Admin, what would be the most important technical skill you'd look for in a candidate?
02:24  * justsomeguy thought it would be more fun to ask people who actually use the OS, instead of gearing his studies to match job requirements written by HR drones.
02:24 < justsomeguy> (But of course take both into consideration.)
02:26 < bls> justsomeguy: one or more of: ability to program, knowledge of networking/switch config/etc, background in security
02:27 < justsomeguy> bls: What qualifies as an ability to program? Is being able to write simple scripts in python enough, or do you want them to know their data structures and algorithms?
02:27 < bls> justsomeguy: the latter
02:27 < justsomeguy> Gotcha.
02:28 < justsomeguy> As for the networking... Would a CCNA be a good thing to have if I'm preparing for that kind of job?
02:29 < bls> justsomeguy: the fact that the software and documentation are free and anyone can pick them up and start learning by doing means there are lots and lots of people with similar skill sets. having something else to go along with it is required to differentiate
02:30 < bls> yeah, CCNA or experience with cisco/juniper/brocade/etc equipment would be good
02:31 < bls> virtualization and/or containerization / microservices are also in demand right now
02:32 < justsomeguy> Good point, bls. I was thinking I'd really like to approach part of it by building a web app, configuring the server with ansible/scripts, try to package the thing in an rpm, and then host it on AWS or something. Then I'd put the source up on github so employers could see it. But my grand plan may be a little unrealistic... I keep on running into roadblocks.
02:33  * justsomeguy is doesn't have any related job experience, so he thought that might be a good way to have something on his resume to show that he can do the thing.
02:34 < Loshki> justanotheruser: initiative, thoroughness, team player, able to solve problems without supervision, a billion other things, only some of which you can interview for...
02:34 < Loshki> justsomeguy: ^^^
02:35 < bls> yeah, that's a good fallback to have in the absence of experience. also consider volunteering help with the local non-profit/community center/religious establishment/etcs infrastructure and/or website
02:35 < justsomeguy> Loshki:   Yes, those qualities are probably more important than any technical skills.
02:37 < sauvin> I can very easily testify that otherwise technically qualified people can be complete disasters when they have to get involved with other people.
02:38 < bls> you mean like this channel? :P
02:40 < justsomeguy> Sometimes, lol.
02:40 < j0seph> i need a terminal emulator that spits fire, any suggestions?
02:40 < justsomeguy> j0seph: Terminology is dope, fam.
02:41 < bls> pretty sure all the terminal emulators out there just deal with text, not fire
02:42 < j0seph> justsomeguy: i'll have a look into it
02:43 < j0seph> bls: right, well i suppose i'd better get to work on strapping some flamethrowers to one that already exists
02:45 < justsomeguy> lwn.net did a benchmark of several terminal emulators, here https://lwn.net/Articles/749992/ , if you care about how fast it can render text.
02:46 < justsomeguy> (part 2 is here: https://lwn.net/Articles/751763/ )
02:46 < justsomeguy> j0seph: ^^
02:47 < j0seph> justsomeguy: cheers, giving them a read now
02:47 < justsomeguy> :~)
02:49 < mavorsa> today's fun with linux: how many daily activities can i use outside of my browser - accomplished so far: twitch video, twitch chats, skype, reddit, forums (rss), discord, and google searches
02:50 < mavorsa> oops, and youtube
02:51 < MikeFromIT> Why just outside of browser? Why not go full terminal?
02:51 < mavorsa> i can, i'm just on a retro nextstep-ish gui kick atm.
02:51 < j0seph> electron may as well be a browser
02:53 < bls> yeah, just because it tries to act like a standalone application doesn't make it something other than just a view of a web page
02:54 < mavorsa> most of my access is between pidgin, liferea rss reader, and a few python scripts from terminal
02:54 < mavorsa> and mpv of course
02:56 < sauvin> mavorsa, I use mine to watch movies a lot.
02:57 < sauvin> I also use mine to turn brunettes into blones with GIMP from screen captures... :>
02:57 < justsomeguy> Is there a good feed reader that is QT based?
02:59 < sauvin> Erm, that would be "blondes".
02:59 < justsomeguy> Ah, nevermind, I should have just googled it first. A little research led me to Akregator, which looks pretty cool.
03:00 < j3kyl_> emacs elfeed is great too!
03:00 < domhnall> justsomeguy: i like it
03:00 < domhnall> ohh, emacs has one? didnt know that.
03:01 < justsomeguy> I should learn emacs, just to play with emacs lisp and all the crazy extensions for it.
03:01 < j3kyl_> emacs == OS. haha, Music player, feed, email reader, gitter, browser, pdf/epub readers...sometime its a editor too! haha
03:02 < domhnall> j3kyl_: Yeah, no kidding.
03:02 < j3kyl_> Oh I forgot, WM too (EXWM). I mostly use just emacs
03:02 < sauvin> If you want to play with a real lisp, most distros have extensive libraries for common lisp.
03:03 < bls> the best description I've seen of emacs is "a platform for applications that manipulate text"
03:04 < justsomeguy> Sounds like unix.
03:05 < sauvin> One of the very first "serious" text editors I ever used was Micro EMACS on a DOS machine. I'd laugh myself silly if somebody trotted out a uELinux.
03:06 < j3kyl_> unix? its dead,  Do lots of things and Do It Well, systemd! haha
03:06 < bls> heh, I still use it for quick edit
03:06 < sauvin> What? systemd for text editing. That's.... just... WRONG.
03:08 < bls> no no, it's more efficient that way, and besides, the old editors were confusing
03:08 < justsomeguy> j3kyl_: Kind of like the kernel.
03:12 < jeffreylevesque> when i goto deep packet inspection i see mail.xx
03:12 < jeffreylevesque> does that mean someone from mail.xx emailed me, or that I used mail.xx?
03:13 < mgolisch> where is that?
03:14 < jeffreylevesque> network application
03:14 < jeffreylevesque> didn't know of deep packet inspection is general term
03:14 < jeffreylevesque> i'm not really into networking much
03:15 < rascul> sauvin i've read that linus uses microemacs
03:16 < rascul> sauvin https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/editors/uemacs/uemacs.git
03:18 < bls> also https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/mg/
03:19 < j3kyl_> microemacs...pff
03:21 < bls> if you've got emacs muscle memory, have lost most of your vi muscle memory, and want to make a quick edit, it's nice to have around
03:23 < j3kyl_> bls: zile?
03:25 < bls> never tried it or seen it installed on anything
03:51 < mavorsa> other than synaptic and apt, are there any good alternatives for software managers other than the one that comes with linux mint xfce that locks up and crashes on every other app preview i open in it?
03:52 < bls> does it support aptitude?
03:53 < mavorsa> i think it does use apt, though im not sure. it just comes stock with xfce on mint
04:05 < dannylee> its a great day tooo be alive
04:06 < dannylee> with my openSUSE in the termnial how can i install software..i just dont no
04:06 < dannylee> yast install software
04:06 < ansraliant> sudo zypper in stuff
04:06 < dannylee> but that dont work
04:07 < ansraliant> in is short for install
04:07 < domhnall> opensuse? why not yum?
04:08 < domhnall> oh wait...think it is zypper.
04:08 < ansraliant> it is zypper
04:09 < dannylee> i just want too use the terminalto install my software
04:10 < dannylee> i not the only one that is stupid...i take it you just dont no..
04:11 < Dominian> dannylee you can stop now.
04:11 < ansraliant> sudo zypper install software
04:11 < Dominian> he's trolling
04:11 < dannylee> ok
04:11 < Dominian> he does this all the time
04:11 < ansraliant> ohh.. I forgot to activate my anti trolling device
04:11 < Metalsutton> Hey all, I want to build a linux programming envionment with as small as physical realestate space as possible. I want to know if I can get away with using a raspberry pi3 for programming of arduino boards / development of webapp etc.
04:13 < Metalsutton> I tried an orange pi PC but it has been nothing but headaches so far. And other option is an Intel NUC minipc. For AVR programming/flashing, general programming, do you think a NUC is worth the extra $$$? Its a bit more legitamate as a peice of hardware?
04:13 < domhnall> Hey, just downloaded the elfeed, not sure how to run it. From emacs?
04:20 < computeiro> Hi, I'm using Linux Mint KDE and I did download Mint 19 ISO and I can't run the iso
04:20 < computeiro> How to execute a ISO in Linux mint KDE?
04:20 < bls> you don't run ISOs
04:21 < computeiro> the iso mounted in /mnt/iso
04:21 < domhnall> http://nullprogram.com/blog/2013/09/04/ - detailed, yet doesnt seem possible using repository copy.
04:23 < computeiro>  bls how to create a pen drive boot using this ISO?
04:24 < darkmeson> Metalsutton: if you go that route, make sure it has an OEM warranty. Apparently, a lot of the rebranded Intel stick computers don't unless the seller provides one, and they're bad about RMAs even when they do
04:24 < bls> either write it to a CD/DVD or copy it onto a USB drive
04:26 < darkmeson> some of intel's socs also have extremely poor linux support, so there's also that
04:26 < triceratux> computeiro: mint tells you to use just about anything other than unetbootin https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/744
04:26 < computeiro> triceratux: ty
04:30 < dannylee> thank you again
04:30 < dannylee> yudit is really c0000l editor
04:31 < dannylee> sudo zypper install yudit
04:31 < dannylee> its cooool
04:33 < domhnall> Okay, this is a learning experience...totally up for it.
04:35 < computeiro> I did put a no formated pendrive in PC, how to locate the pendrive and format them?
04:36 < bls> ls /dev/disk/by-id/ -or- lsblk, then the traditional way is something like dd if=linux.iso of=/dev/disk/by-id/.... bs=1m
04:38 < computeiro> bls: But the pendrive don't have  a partition, I did remove a minutes ago
04:38 < Loshki> Metalsutton: what *kind* of headaches?
04:38 < bls> computeiro: doesn't need one
04:39 < computeiro> bls: blz!
04:39 < bls> computeiro: you're supposed to write the ISO onto the whole drive, not a partition
04:39 < Metalsutton> it crashes at login screen, for all distros ive tried
04:39 < computeiro> blz is someone very cool in Brazilian Portuguese
04:40 < Loshki> computeiro: what does gparted say about it?
04:40 < bls> kekeke
04:40 < Metalsutton> armbian, Ubuntu Mate, Debian Jesse.
04:42 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Glad to see someone finally saying something. LOL
04:42 < computeiro> Loshki: I'm using KDE Linux mint 18.1, I don't have gparted
04:43 < computeiro> Loshki: will I install gparted?
04:43 < Psi-Jack> naeomee: Is that [a] an "away" representation?
04:44 < domhnall> Psi-Jack: are you okay? mentioned two nicks that haven't spoke in past ~3mins
04:44 < Psi-Jack> domhnall: I'm fine. :)
04:44 < domhnall> okay...
04:45 < Bashing-om> computeiro: Be aware there is good reason why GParted is removed from the installed system - exercise great care if you install it .
04:45 < Loshki> Either install gparted, or use kde's partition editor, if they have one. I thought every distro had gparted? If it doesn't run gparted, I won't run it.
04:45 < ir7466> Hi there, just a quick question. Could someone explain in layman's terms what "SSL/TLS use of weak RC4 cipher" means?
04:45 < bls> why would he install or use gparted? it has nothing to do with what he's attempting
04:45 < Ratman5005> First experience with KVM (linux newbie). I have the virtio drivers mounted as a 2nd CD, however when I browse during the windows setup to the viostore 2k12R2 (the OS I am trying to install) there are no compatible drivers. I can uncheck the box and see the Red Hat drivers but they don't work. Running Fedora 28 Server. I have tried different drive types, IDE, SATA, SCSI, VirtIO but can't find any drivers that work.
04:45 < Dan39> just look at dmesg
04:45 < Dan39> ffs
04:46 < Psi-Jack> New filesystem? The FAST File System?
04:46 < computeiro> bls: 'sudo if=linuxmint-19...iso of=/dev/disk/by-id/usb-SanDisk_Cruzer_20051536101162B0A60D-0:0\: bs=1M
04:46 < computeiro> bls:  Not found
04:46 < computeiro> bls:  the /dev/disk...
04:46 < bls> computeiro: you forgot the dd
04:47 < Dan39> adn i think that path is missing something
04:47 < Dan39> it ends with a :
04:47 < computeiro> bls: only here, in the terminal I did put dd in start line
04:47 < Dan39> and why is one of the colons escaped and the others not?
04:48 < bls> then see Dan39's comment. you've got provided an accurate /dev path/filename
04:48 < bls> not
04:48 < Loshki> ir7466: I think it means it's using an older form of encryption, because either your system, or the system you're talking to, is old and needs to be upgraded. Are you talking to a windows system by any chance?
04:48 < computeiro> bls: sudo dd if=~/Downloads/linuxmint-19-cinnamon-64bit-beta.iso of=/dev/disk/by-id/usb-SanDisk_Cruzer_20051536101162B0A60D-0\:0 bs=1M
04:48 < Dan39> there that's probably right
04:48 < computeiro> bls: dd: fail on open '/dev/disk/by-id/usb-SanDisk_Cruzer_20051536101162B0A60D-0:0': Not found
04:49 < Dan39> just look at dmesg
04:49 < Dan39> use /dev/sdX
04:49 < Dan39> or lsblk
04:49 < Dan39> or fdisk -l
04:49 < domhnall> newb question, on Debian, how do I remove a package from the 'autoremove' list?
04:49 < domhnall> ....besides removing it with 'autoremove'
04:49 < Dan39> computeiro: use your tab completion for the /dev/disk path if you want to use that
04:50 < Dan39> dont be manually typing out that whole path
04:50 < ir7466> Loshki, I'm not sure. i'm just investigating a list of potential issues
04:50 < phinxy> domhnall• I'd try to hold the package. IDK.
04:50 < Dan39> computeiro: do you know what tab completion is?
04:51 < Loshki> ir7466: a ton of hits on google for "SSL/TLS use of weak RC4 cipher"
04:51 < domhnall> Well, it's really not needed so it actually can go. But I'd like to know in case I'd like to keep it nexttime.
04:51 < phinxy> domhnall• So you don't have to re-download?
04:51 < Loshki> domhnall: as long as you know it's name, you can reinstall it at any time
04:51 < domhnall> Well, that's good enough reason.
04:52 < domhnall> yeah...bandwidth isnt an issue but that could be considered in other cases....
04:52 < ir7466> I did search Loshki, but i think its mainly sysadmin's doing the talking. i was just hoping to understand what it means in everyday terms
04:52 < bls> there's a way to tell apt that something should be considered manually installed instead of auto-installed as a dependency
04:52 < phinxy> Thats possible in the curses aptitude program i recall
04:53 < bls> because the class of things that were auto-installed as a dependency is what autoremove deals with
04:53 < domhnall> okay...
04:54 < bls> ir7466: think of it in terms of weak vs strong passwords. RC4 would be like the equivalent of '12345678' or 'password' as a password...easy to break
04:54 < ir7466> okay
04:54 < dannylee> 2018 is a great year for linux..and if openSUSE piss me off...i still have gnome ubuntu
04:54 < ir7466> thank you
04:54 < computeiro> bls: I did unplug the pendrive and I did plug the pendrive again, `dd ... of=/dev/sdb ...` working
04:55  * domhnall can't recall if Debian Admin Guide mentioned this...but will check tomorrow.
04:57 < Loshki> ir7466: the google stuff is mostly from 2016. It seems there are patches/workarounds for both windows and linux machines that have been around for a year or so.
05:09 < darkmeson> Ratman5005: ##windows
05:10 < Ratman5005> darkmeson for a KVM question?
05:15 < darkmeson> It's not a KVM question, it's a Windows question
05:15 < Psi-Jack> Ratman5005: That's more of a Linux/Windows interoperability question, specifically relating to QXL or guest additions within Windows.
05:16 < Psi-Jack> And interoperability is covered here.
05:16 < domhnall> \o/
05:17 < Psi-Jack> Of course, better details are always better.
05:17 < Radicarianubis> Is there any way in Powershell to set up a little icon or something similar to Bash or ZSH when you're working in a git repo that'll give you an indication that there's an uncommitted file?
05:18 < Psi-Jack> Radicarianubis: As for powershell. It can go DIAF>
05:18 < Psi-Jack> heh
05:18 < darkmeson> Windows questions are still best answered by Windows people
05:18 < Psi-Jack> darkmeson: You can stop now.
05:18 < lnnb> i wrote a batch script once
05:19 < Radicarianubis> Yeah, I've been mostly doing stuff in linux but I want to at least be familiar with working in different environments
05:19 < Psi-Jack> Radicarianubis: Well, PowerShell isn't exactly Linux software, so. Not on-topic here.
05:20 < darkmeson> Psi-Jack: oh? you disagree that higher concentrations of experts on the specific subject matter generally yield better results, more quickly?
05:20 < Psi-Jack> darkmeson: You can stop now.
05:20 < sauvin> Psi-Jack, yes, and thanks.
05:21 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: How ironic. I was just thinking about you. :)
05:21 < sauvin> Hrm.
05:22 < bls> I don't want anybody else, when I think about you I....
05:23 < sauvin> Great. Now I'm going to be hearing Yvonne Elliman all night o/~ if I can't have you, I don't want nobody, baby... o/~
05:23 < sauvin> (uh uh unf)
05:24 < darkmeson> Psi-Jack: of course I can since I've made my point.
05:25 < Psi-Jack> A rather useless and rude sharp pointed point, sure.
05:26 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Would you rather be rickrolled?
05:26 < Psi-Jack> n[a]eomee: Is that [a] an "away" indicator?
05:27 < darkmeson> well, everyone is entitled to their own view I suppose
05:28 < Psi-Jack> sauvin: Never gonna give you up...
05:32 < Psi-Jack> Confirmed away nick.
05:32 < Dan39> damn, Psi-Jack bout to judo chop yo ass
05:33 < Psi-Jack> judo is about throwing, not chopping.
05:33 < tzcrawford> Did the #archlinux channel die?
05:33 < Psi-Jack> tzcrawford: No.
05:33 < tzcrawford> I am being told it doesn't exist
05:33 < Psi-Jack> Sounds like a personal problem.
05:33 < triceratux> oh nooooes maybe it was swallowed by manjaro
05:33 < tzcrawford> All linux problems are personal problems
05:34 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Heh. Solus is where the future is. :)
05:36 < MNav> hey
05:36 < tzcrawford> Macbook pro has gone to sleep? rip
05:36 < MNav> can someone helps me
05:36 < darkmeson> more like Qubes, or something more akin to MINIX 3
05:36 < tzcrawford> help with what?
05:36 < MNav> i'm trying to run programs with wine
05:36 < sauvin> Naw, it's all about the Sabayon now!
05:37 < MNav> and it always returns "internal error"
05:37 < sauvin> What, precisely, returns an "internal error"?
05:37 < tzcrawford> oh got not wine
05:37 < MNav> what am I doing wrong?
05:37 < MNav> every program I try to run
05:37 < bls> MNav: you'll need to provide a lot more detail if you're going to get any help. also, there's a wine channel on here
05:38 < sauvin> MNav, what distro are you running, and how did you install wine?
05:38 < sauvin> Also: what programs?
05:38 < MNav> I'm running openmandriva lx
05:38 < MNav> and I installed using urpmi
05:38 < MNav> urpmi wine64
05:39 < bls> did you install the windows libs?
05:39 < darkmeson> does that also pull in 32 bit packages or libraries?
05:39 < MNav> idk
05:40 < MNav> I never used it
05:40 < darkmeson> rpm -q --fileprovide $(rpm -qa |grep wine) |grep /usr/lib/
05:41 < MNav> i will try
05:41 < darkmeson> something like that should tell you if you have 32 bit libs installed, assuming that distro has the /usr/lib64, /usr/lib division
05:41 < darkmeson> otherwise try installing 'wine32'
05:42 < MNav> I tryed
05:42 < MNav> does not exist
05:43 < MNav> tried*
05:44 < MNav> >
05:44 < darkmeson> then look at the package descriptions for wine* and see if there are any that mention 32 bit, because you'll need them for 32 bit windows apps
05:44 < MNav> alredy done that
05:44 < MNav> already*
05:45 < MNav> but nothing happens
05:45 < MNav> I tried to compile it from source
05:45 < MNav> but it was saying it needs xlib
05:45 < bls> probably need to talk to your distro's channel, because it generally "just works" on mainstream distros
05:45 < MNav> and I have no idea what's that
05:46 < darkmeson> how about running a .exe from the command line with 'WNEARCH=win32 wine program.exe'?
05:47 < MNav> I will try
05:47 < Psi-Jack> All else fails, #winehq is the official Wine help channel.
05:47 < MNav> okay
05:48 < MNav> thank you very much anyway
05:48 < darkmeson> they have their own repos for certain distributions too, so maybe a web search for '<distro> winehq repo' would be in order as well
05:48 < darkmeson> or ask in that channel
05:48 < Psi-Jack> There's also PlayOnLinux, which is a front-end to wine that has recipes of how to run various Win apps in wine.
05:49 < Psi-Jack> With specific versions of wine too.
05:49 < MNav> yeah
05:49 < MNav> I was trying PlayOnLinux
05:49 < MNav> but it needs python
05:50 < MNav> and my version is outdated
05:50 < Psi-Jack> Maybe you shouldn't be using an outdated distro then.
05:50 < MNav> I tried compiling it from source
05:50 < MNav> but I failed
05:50 < MNav> yeah, I need to change my distribution
05:50 < Psi-Jack> Seriously...
05:51 < MNav> mine is from 2014
05:51 < MNav> 4 years ago
05:52 < Psi-Jack> Which in OpenMandriva years, is actually more like 7+
05:53 < MNav> why
05:53 < MNav> don't get that
05:53 < Psi-Jack> Because they're usually very slow.
05:54 < MNav> what distro would you recommend me?
05:54 < Psi-Jack> Depends.
05:54 < MNav> I'm familiar with debian-based and with openmandriva
05:55 < Psi-Jack> Well, lately I've started recommending Solus but behind that I'd say Fedora is an optimal choice.
05:55 < iflema> opensuse
05:55 < iflema> leap
05:55 < MNav> A friend of mine recommended fedora and gentoo
05:55 < Psi-Jack> I would definitely not recommend openSUSE, though.
05:55 < Psi-Jack> Not anymore.
05:56 < strive> How come?
05:56 < strive> Curious.
05:56 < Psi-Jack> strive: Requires too much knowledge to properly re-configure the stupid parts they've done to it, like lowered the openfiles limit which breaks most browsers.
05:57 < strive> Oh. Well, that stinks.
05:57 < Psi-Jack> Heh yeah.
05:57 < Psi-Jack> And the defaulting to btrfs.
05:57 < MNav> well, I think i'm gonna use gentoo
05:57 < Psi-Jack> Out of the freezer, straight in the frydaddy?
05:57 < bls> if you couldn't compile wine, you probably shouldn't use gentoo
05:57 < tzcrawford> Fedora is pretty old. Gentoo is like a more hard Arch
05:57 < Psi-Jack> ^
05:58 < Psi-Jack> Fedora old? No it's not.
05:58 < tzcrawford> It's not anywhere as common as it used to be
05:58 < bls> fedora is pretty cutting edge
05:58 < MNav> I could compile it ok
05:58 < tzcrawford> just use debian or ubuntu
05:58 < MNav> it just required some libs that I haven't
05:58 < MNav> I don't like ubuntu
05:59 < bls> why not?
05:59 < Psi-Jack> He likes his face not slapped repeatedly. :)
05:59 < MNav> the x button is on the left side
05:59 < strive> Gentoo is great for the picky users.
05:59 < Disconsented> Then change the DE
06:00 < Disconsented> Thats a unity problem not an ubuntu one
06:00 < epicmetal> strive: I found that their repos are a little out of date, even for testing
06:00 < bls> the placement of the buttons has nothing to do with the distro
06:00 < MNav> haha
06:00 < MNav> I know LOL
06:00 < strive> epicmetal: Yea...
06:00 < MNav> i'm just kidding
06:00 < strive> lmao
06:00 < strive> Good one.
06:00 < kirk781> I thought all Gentoo users had shifted to Arch
06:00 < epicmetal> strive: e.g. current MATE isn't in testing even though it was released two months ago and people have working overlays
06:00 < epicmetal> strive: not really sure why that is
06:01 < darkmeson> MNav: sabayon would probably be more reasonable than gentoo, while leaving all of the benefits
06:01 < MNav> never heard of it
06:01 < strive> epicmetal: Interesting.
06:01 < epicmetal> strive: I saw some comment on the github basically dismissing people's desire for current versions as "version fetishism", which was extremely offputting
06:01 < strive> epicmetal: That's a jaw dropper.
06:02 < iflema> sabayon is really one or the other as far as "auto" goes thugh isnt it?
06:02 < darkmeson> Sabayon is basically Gentoo without the unnecessary recompilations
06:02 < epicmetal> strive: it made me sad, for sure
06:02 < strive> epicmetal: There's always a light at the end of the tunnel.
06:02 < epicmetal> strive: how so
06:02 < iflema> i mean for more than 5 minutes
06:02 < MNav> I'm gonna try it
06:02 < triceratux> MNav: you might check out lubuntu 18.10 lxqt. the dailies are pretty solid already
06:03 < bls> because everyone knows if version X is good, version X+1 is +1 better
06:03 < MNav> I want to try something that isn't debian based
06:03 < strive> MNav: Void.
06:03 < triceratux> swagarch ftw
06:05 < darkmeson> I can actually second OpenSUSE leap or tumbleweed, but I'll also admit that getting all the needed repos configured isn't nearly as easy or straightforward as  other distros
06:05 < iflema> all the repos for what
06:05 < strive> What's a lightweight rpm-based distro?
06:05 < iflema> there in there to turn on
06:05 < Psi-Jack> strive: All.
06:05 < justsomeguy> This guide makes setting up third party repos for media codecs on openSUSE a lot easier: http://www.opensuse-guide.org/index.php
06:06 < darkmeson> tumbleweed is nice in that it's the only rpm-based, rolling release distro afaik, but it also requires quite a bit of bandwidth for all those updates
06:06 < bls> fedora
06:06 < iflema> leap
06:06 < strive> Fedora is heavyweight.
06:06 < pi0> is there a command line client for pptp vpn?
06:06 < justsomeguy> (You can just click on the buttons, and it will launch a one-click install.)
06:06 < darkmeson> iflema: codecs and a lot of different apps
06:06 < MNav> do you think it's a good idea to use the latest version of openmandriva?
06:06 < pi0> i figured out how to use openvpn, but how do you reconfig pptp manually
06:06 < iflema> there in there to turn on
06:06 < strive> Psi-Jack: What do you use?
06:06 < iflema> community repos
06:07 < bls> sure it is if you're going to judge the thing 30 seconds after you've booted an install you didn't customize one bit
06:07 < iflema> clicky clicky
06:07 < bls> if that's the criteria, all distros are heavyweight
06:07 < Psi-Jack> strive: As of this weekend, Solus.
06:07 < MNav> and freebsd?
06:07 < Psi-Jack> Is not Linux.
06:07 < strive> Before Solus?
06:07 < MNav> I want to test it someday
06:07 < iflema> Jackaroo
06:08 < Psi-Jack> strive: I tried out Arch for a few months.
06:08 < MNav> I know
06:08 < MNav> but is is unix-like too Psi-jack
06:08 < darkmeson> iflema: it requires you to know to go wading through http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/ to find the .repo files for the repos containing the packages you want
06:08 < Psi-Jack> MNav: It's BSD.
06:08 < iflema> darkmeson: thats silly
06:09 < iflema> yast
06:09 < MNav> yeah
06:09 < MNav> but it is based on unix
06:09 < strive> Psi-Jack: What's the eopkg package manager based on?
06:09 < iflema> and any way you do it once
06:09 < MNav> like linux
06:09 < Psi-Jack> strive: Nothing.
06:09 < strive> Psi-Jack: Wow, it's late...dumb question.
06:09 < strive> I'm done. G'night all.
06:10 < MNav> good night
06:10 < darkmeson> iflema: maybe it's changed since, but I wouldn't know since my way ended up being easier once I knew what I was doing
06:10  * darkmeson never liked yast because it was so damned slow
06:10 < justsomeguy> It's still slow!
06:11 < MNav> can I ask something?
06:11 < justsomeguy> No.
06:11 < iflema> after install yast up some repos... and get zypp in.... to easy
06:11 < darkmeson> zypper is bad enough, but at least it has an awesome depsolver under the hood
06:12 < MNav> Does the linux community have a rivalry with the freebsd community?
06:12 < MNav> asked
06:12 < darkmeson> that gives it more of an excuse than, say,  apt or yum/dnf
06:12 < Psi-Jack> MNav: Other than BSD sucks? :p
06:12 < darkmeson> MNav: no
06:13 < bls> MNav: no
06:13 < MNav> thanks for the answer
06:13 < bls> other than BSD is to Linux as Linux used to be to Windows
06:13 < darkmeson> any sane person uses whatever tools do the job, regardless of stack of personal feelings about it
06:13 < iflema> one of the best things and I know its in most but haveing a back up kernel for those occasions occasionally whre a new one fails - which is pretty rare but 8+ years of arch can get tyou
06:14 < MNav> I just saw some linux users beeing rude with bsd
06:14 < kirk781> I haven't met a single person using BSD
06:14 < domhnall> ....something something about masterbating monkeys but....w/e.
06:14 < MNav> LOL
06:14 < domhnall> kirk781: Hi, nice to meet you.
06:14 < MNav> I have met a guy
06:14 < bls> kirk781: you've likely met lots but they don't know it
06:14 < darkmeson> MNav: don't confuse gpl zealots for the typical linux user
06:14 < MNav> but only him
06:15 < kirk781> I think you forgot a 'to' between masturbating and monkeys
06:15  * darkmeson is a freebsd user btw
06:15 < kirk781> I wish to try BSD one day
06:15 < MNav> me too
06:16 < kirk781> Hello domhnall
06:16 < darkmeson> I was partially forced to be, due to low quality USB3 drivers in the Linux ecosystem
06:16 < iflema> kirk781: freeBSD gets abit off tap for a desktop... it turn semi gentoo
06:16 < iflema> same for most really
06:16 < s0k_iT> guys i need a new laptop, i dont know what to do, too many choices, i mean i can put linux on anytning but hows it gonna perform? any suggestions?
06:16 < darkmeson> freebsd is more sabayon than gentoo
06:16 < iflema> dragonfly is good
06:16 < domhnall> MNav: kirk781 it's the only way to escape systemd. unless ofcourse, using a distro with init of rc or something.
06:17 < bls> and freebsd isn't turning into gentoo...got that backwards
06:17 < iflema> darkmeson: run it
06:17 < darkmeson> the ports are there, but you typically don't have to build much unless you want to or are porting something
06:17 < iflema> darkmeson: for a desktop
06:17 < iflema> lol
06:17 < bls> ....if only it were possible
06:17 < s0k_iT> any suggestions?
06:18 < darkmeson> It is, partially, thanks to virt
06:18 < bls> s0k_iT: ##hardware is mine
06:18 < Psi-Jack> s0k_iT: ##hardware
06:18 < MNav> I understand nothing of hardware
06:18 < Psi-Jack> MNav: And you wanna run Gentoo?
06:19 < MNav> i'll try
06:19 < domhnall> Eh
06:19 < iflema> and PCBSD once apon a time just wiped a drive and took over so obviously never again...
06:19 < s0k_iT> well hardware has alot to do with OS so that could be a good channel for me
06:19 < justsomeguy> s0k_iT: Here's a fourm for asking about what hardware is good for linux: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/
06:19 < darkmeson> s0k_iT: just find something that looks decent and do a web search to see how good the linux support for it is
06:19 < justsomeguy> s0k_iT: Personally, I like ThinkPads and Dell Precision laptops.
06:20 < MNav> Psi-jack: if I get too lost I change it
06:20 < s0k_iT> yea ive done that but im lookin for actual ppl for my decison
06:20 < darkmeson> and make doubly sure with *trail, because Intel doesn't provide the glowing Linux support they'd have you believe
06:20 < Psi-Jack> If you can even manage to install it. :)
06:20 < MNav> a friend of mine said that gentoo is hard to install
06:20 < kirk781>  My bluetooth headphones stutter on PC when I am using wi-fi[since they presumably use the same frequency]; however the same problem does not occur when I pair it to my mobile
06:21 < domhnall> MNav: imo, Gentoo is a bit addictive for the true tinkerer. So much to modify and setup. Lots of fun.
06:21 < MNav> I want to try it
06:21 < domhnall> Was gonna but it on my mackbook but...not yet.
06:21 < bls> maintain a computer as a hobby vs using a computer to do work
06:21 < iflema> it is good t sit down once a week of so and go through some things and upgrade and what not... fun
06:21 < s0k_iT> can i get a count on what distro evryone is running right now? just curious
06:22 < iflema> make a evening of it
06:22 < domhnall> bls: Well, I get that, that's why I run obsd as main os.
06:22 < iflema> make a kernel
06:22 < darkmeson> kirk781: that's more of a #wireless, ##hardware, or ##electronics question, but yes, they both operate on 2.4ghz, and a lot of bt devices are pretty weak
06:22 < kirk781> s0k_iT, debian and fedora here
06:22 < triceratux> s0k_iT: you caught me running swagarch https://swagarch.gitlab.io/
06:23 < MNav> what IDE do you use?
06:23 < s0k_iT>  how do u switch debian an fedora? by boot or virtual?
06:23 < domhnall> triceratux: you're always running something I've never heard of....neat.
06:23 < Psi-Jack> s0k_iT: "you"
06:23 < kirk781> darkmeson, I understand that. But the same problem does not replicate itself when I am connected to it via phone. Is it then something of an issue with the OS or does the phone does things differently?
06:23 < justsomeguy> ....MNav are you trying to start a flame war or something?
06:24 < MNav> no no
06:24 < MNav> I am just curious
06:24 < kirk781> Dual booting
06:24 < epicmetal> s0k_iT: Arch, reconsidering Void because I miss a less dynamic init
06:24 < MNav> anyone knows that vim is better than emacs
06:24 < kirk781> I used to dual boot Debian and Cent OS but Cent OS was just missing so many packages
06:24 < MNav> calm down, I'm just kidding ok
06:24 < domhnall> MNav: but......but.....
06:25 < bls> then at least come up with some new material
06:25 < s0k_iT> epicmetal: dualboot two linux OSes nothing else? btw i love metal too
06:25 < darkmeson> kirk781: like I said, a lot of bt devices are just plain weak. the chip in your phone is probably better than the one in your computer. buy a couple other types of bt dongle from amazon or something, they're only like $3
06:26 < epicmetal> s0k_iT: no, I like to run one OS per machine.
06:28 < MNav> I think I'm gonna dual boot just to play that game
06:28 < MNav> and any other
06:31 < s0k_iT> is Kali just untalked about here?
06:31 < darkmeson> probably laughed about, mostly
06:32 < bls> s0k_iT: we generally refer kali questions to the kali channel
06:32 < darkmeson> at least that's the usual reception I see everywhere
06:32 < triceratux> actively disliked by the best practices crowd, who generally would rather not waste their time attacking it
06:34 < Aph3x-WL> it wasn't like that before everyone wanted to be mr robot
06:34 < Aph3x-WL> now it's just annoying
06:34 < kirk781> I know a couple of people who think that just installing Kali gives then leet level skills
06:35 < bls> it's been like that since before it was backtrack
06:35 < domhnall> kirk781: dont ever admit that in public
06:35 < Aph3x-WL> not really, people liked backtrack
06:36 < bls> all the channels/forums I've been on felt the same way about kali, backtrack, WHAX, Auditor, etc, etc
06:37 < MNav> >I know a couple of people who think that just installing Kali gives then leet level skills
06:37 < MNav> that's very good hahaha
06:37 < bls> which is pretty much that the people that need the security tools packaged up together on live media aren't going to be asking you questions about themes/eye candy/watching movies/etc
06:38 < MNav> I know a guy that uses kali linux as his main system
06:39 < Happyhobo> I know a guy that sells lime jello out of the trunk of his 1984 BMW 320i.
06:39 < Aph3x-WL> the non-skiddies usually make their own live usb with tools they need which is why they don't care for kali
06:40 < MNav> but they can use kali in a virtual machine
06:41 < MNav> so it's basically the same thing
06:41 < sauvin> There's nothing wrong with Kali or Backtrack if/when they're used as intended. The problem we see a lot is newbies trying to use these distros as general purpose desktops and get fried out when they don't work very well.
06:41 < Aph3x-WL> that's what i just said :/
06:41 < Aph3x-WL> also, MNav wipe his computer and install windows vista on it
06:41 < Aph3x-WL> he deserves it
06:42 < MNav> what
06:42 < MNav> why
06:43 < kirk781> Psst, Windows ME is better
06:43 < Happyhobo> pssstttt want some jello"
06:44 < MNav> the best windows is XP
06:44 < sauvin> I thought Windows 2000 was the best.
06:44 < Aph3x-WL> for running one of the easiest to compromise operating systems as his main system
06:44 < Happyhobo> In all seriousness the best was 98SE/
06:44 < sauvin> Guh, the 3x and 9x series were garbage.
06:44 < Aph3x-WL> no, 3.1 was best
06:44 < darkmeson> all of which run in a browser now
06:44 < MNav> seriously
06:44 < darkmeson> depressing, isn't it?
06:45 < MNav> the best was XP
06:45 < domhnall> Aph3x-WL: you're saying kali has remote vulnerabilities?
06:45  * sauvin snickers
06:45 < sauvin> Kali is NOT a "secure" distro.
06:45 < Happyhobo> hi sauvin do you know syndaemon?
06:45 < domhnall> That's established
06:45 < MNav> of course it is
06:45 < MNav> i'm gonna install it in  my windows
06:45 < MNav> press enter and hack u
06:45 < Aph3x-WL> domhnall: i'm saying it's not at all designed to be secure and is very much the opposite for convenience sake
06:46 < sauvin> Yeah, good luck with that.
06:46 < sauvin> BTW, it's "you", not "u".
06:46 < Happyhobo> sorry for the weird jello comments sauvin I\m feeling obtuse.
06:46 < MNav> but 1 4m 1337
06:46 < MNav> 1 t41k 11k3 4 c00l guy
06:46 < sauvin> One more line like that and you'll be making that claim in some *other* channel. Use standard English here.
06:46 < domhnall> MNav: then why are you here?
06:47 < Happyhobo> Look more like Prince on crack
06:47 < MNav> oh sorry
06:47 < MNav> just joking man
06:47 < Happyhobo> 1 would die 4 u and all that
06:47 < domhnall> nevermind...im not entertaining that.
06:47 < sauvin> Oh, great, now I gonna be hearing "purple rain" all night.
06:47 < Happyhobo> I love that song.
06:48 < domhnall> sauvin: haha, something must really be wrong with you radio.
06:48 < domhnall> ...ugh 'your'
06:48 < sauvin> Yeah. The one in my head gets stuck a lot.
06:48 < Happyhobo> sauvin someone here gave me a syndaemon command to prevent the mouse from acting for 2 or 3 minutes while I type
06:48 < MNav> I'm without a mouse
06:49 < MNav> i'm using the touchpad
06:49 < makuharigaijin> I'm having a mental block.  Back in the early days of linux, I was able to run multiple virtual screens.  I would run X windows in one and a non-graphical tty in another.  If I had issues with X windows locking up on me, I would just switch to the text tty and kill it.  Does this ring a bell for anyone?  I want to configure my setup like that again.  My google foo is failing me.
06:49 < MNav> it used to be horrible
06:49 < sauvin> On my laptop I tied a key on the KDE desktop to a script that toggles the touchpad state because I KEPT THUMBING THE GODDAMN THING WHILE TYPING AND IT DROVE ME BUGGY!
06:49 < Happyhobo> ayecee:  didn't know
06:49 < MNav> but it's beeing normal these days
06:49 < bls> makuharigaijin: nothing should have changed unless you're running something like wayland
06:49 < sauvin> makuharigaijin, what distro are you using?
06:50 < Happyhobo> it's like syndaemon -t -k 3 or something sauvin
06:50 < bls> makuharigaijin: although distros have started moving around X from tty7
06:50 < sauvin> Happyhobo, yea, something a lot like that.
06:50 < makuharigaijin> sauvin: fedora 28
06:50 < Happyhobo> is that it sauvin?
06:50 < MNav> today's question:
06:50 < MNav> debian or redhat?
06:50 < sauvin> Hrm, don't know that one well. You're saying that ALT-CTRL-F1 doesn't bring up a VC for you?
06:50 < Aph3x-WL> redhat
06:51 < nojeffrey> On Manjaro/KDE, when I plug in my phone over USB, and choose open files with Dolphin, it opens this: https://i.imgur.com/HcPV10T.png
06:51 < nojeffrey> is this mounted anywhere so I can find this on the command line?
06:51 < nojeffrey> it's not in /mnt
06:51 < domhnall> Aw, wondering now what would a redhat pentesting distro be like.
06:52 < bls> nojeffrey: it's likely just querying the phone over mtp instead of mounting it
06:52 < Aph3x-WL> domhnall: it would be like the fedora security spin
06:52 < makuharigaijin> bls: so how to I switch to another tty then?  Is that the terminology I'm missing?  Were those other "screens" that I remember from my slackware days just ttys?
06:52 < nojeffrey> i see, thankyou
06:52 < domhnall> Aph3x-WL: hmm...didnt know about that.
06:52 < sauvin> nojeffrey, I don't know. Have you try examining the output of the 'mount' command?
06:52 < nojeffrey> negative
06:53 < Happyhobo> oh fuck that was easy enough to find, damn google rides again https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E86824_01/html/E54763/syndaemon-1.html
06:53 < sauvin> I don't know one flipping thing about mtp :\
06:53 < sauvin> Happyhobo, mind the language. }:<
06:53 < bls> makuharigaijin: yes, ttys or virtual consoles. you'd get F1-F6 with login running on them then F7 would be were X would run
06:53 < Aph3x-WL> domhnall: security lab* https://labs.fedoraproject.org/en/security/
06:54 < domhnall> Aph3x-WL: okay thanks...no disrespect if I type the url in manually...talking insecure and hack-speak and all
06:54 < bls> makuharigaijin: and as savuin said, Ctrl+Alt+F1
06:54 < domhnall> yeah...my mind works that way
06:54 < Aph3x-WL> lol go ahead
06:54 < MNav> domhnall i've found something gentoo-based
06:54 < domhnall> Pentoo?
06:55 < sauvin> I like sabayon a lot so far.
06:55 < MNav> https://www.pentoo.ch/
06:55 < MNav> yeah
06:55 < domhnall> Sabyon is nice...
06:55 < Aph3x-WL> pentoo is still around? i thought it was abandonded years ago
06:55 < sauvin> The only grief I have with it is that updates take calendar time.
06:55 < domhnall> was gonna install it on my grandfather's old PC but...damn thing has no HDD
06:55 < makuharigaijin> aaaaaah!  I was trying to switch ttys from my bluetooth keyboard with no luck, but from the laptop keyboard to works fine, just like I remember.  Feeling old.  lol  Thanks, guys!
06:56 < sauvin> makuharigaijin, how old are you? O:)
06:56 < bls> makuharigaijin: ah, likely due to BT keyboards not generate the right alt/esc/meta keypress
06:56 < sauvin> Or maybe just not sending along the right scan codes?
06:57 < bls> yeah, that
06:57 < bls> I've got one that I have to use escape on for some things, and some stuff I just can't flat out do
06:57 < domhnall> Aph3x-WL: oh wow...this is interesting. Found other reference too: https://www.concise-courses.com/linux-distros/fedora-security-spin/
06:58 < MNav> I'm gonna sleep
06:58 < MNav> bye
06:58 < MNav> good night for you all
06:58 < domhnall> Lies, you're gonna switch nicks and come back with wares
06:58 < domhnall> j/k... take care.
07:00 < MNav> tomorrow I'll be back
07:00 < MNav> I think
07:00 < domhnall> oh great...now sauvin is gonna be hearing Terminator all night
07:01 < domhnall> come on...that was a good one :)
07:01 < sauvin> Nope... Prince still moaning something about purple rain.
07:01 < Happyhobo> never disable touchpad when you don't have a mouse attached.
07:01 < DynV> with no update nor install, can one watch youtube videos with antiX?
07:02 < DynV> as "right out the box"
07:02 < Happyhobo> That was a brilliant song and a brilliant album by a brilliant yet weird man.
07:02 < domhnall> Happyhobo: did that once....accidental disable though. Thankfully, I'm well accustomed to keyboarding.
07:02 < Aph3x-WL> domhnall: i wonder how old that is, it says it comes with lxde but i don't recall when they last used that as they're now using xfce
07:03 < bls> Happyhobo: or use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_keys
07:03 < domhnall> Aph3x-WL: dunno, just was informative enough for my apetite of curiousity on the matter.
07:03 < Happyhobo> kinda 7773333t
07:04 < sauvin> OK, mullets, here's some not so purple rain, just for revenge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_rFRZmg0WM
07:04 < DynV> is this channel logged?
07:04 < sauvin> (you've just been rique rouled!)
07:04 < sauvin> DynV, not publicly, no.
07:05 < bls> purple rain is ok, but it's no red corvette
07:05 < domhnall> Aph3x-WL: Headers say last modified in Nov of 2017...
07:05 < domhnall> Thankskgiving I think...Nov 23rd?
07:06 < DynV> I've started a conversation here some hours ago, if someone has a log I'd like it. I could DM the 1st and last line in that conversation
07:10 < DynV> http://pastebin.com/zX0xLBta
07:16 < ansraliant> i have logs for the last 3/4 hours. If your conversation happened during that time frame, I might have it
07:16 < sauvin> I'm slow to share logs for any reason. :\
07:17 < ansraliant> makes sense
07:18 < ansraliant> but what are we, if we cannot trust a random guy on a shady linux chat room the internet?
07:18 < ansraliant> haha
07:18 < yskapell> Good morning all
07:18 < yskapell> I have a server which is boot from SAN.
07:19 < yskapell> When I activate the disaster site the wwid of boot disk change
07:19 < yskapell> is the following acceptable?
07:19 < yskapell> https://paste.linux.community/view/1057b3c7
07:19 < yskapell> EMC Storage
07:27 < darkmeson> DynV: it probably still exists within Matrix
07:28 < darkmeson> I'm not sure what matrix.org's purging policies are irt bridged content, but I know it goes back at least a day
07:29 < dullfire> ,
07:31 < DynV> darkmeson: how can I access this channel content on it?
07:32 < darkmeson> typically via the official client at https://riot.im/app/
07:32 < domhnall> DynV: Are you just interested in the logs or the conversation's topic?
07:32 < DynV> log
07:32 < domhnall> oh...carry on.
07:33 < DynV> I thought you were referrring to matrix.org, you have feeback on my log 1st line I suppose, what's your thoughts?
07:33 < darkmeson> it's a web client, but a lot of distros have a couple desktop clients in their repos by the names nheko and quaternion too
07:35 < darkmeson> you basically just join the channel from one of those and you can scroll back as far as it has cached
07:43  * darkmeson is actually trying to tackle the fractal's dependency hell as we speak
07:44 < darkmeson> dynv-riot: how far back does it go for you?
07:45 < darkmeson> xfce
07:45 < darkmeson> Gnome allegedly finally caved and started supporting standard desktop mode fully, but I've had no reason to switch back
07:46 < darkmeson> dynv-riot: how about an actual message? I have all the meta messages disabled
07:47 < darkmeson> jsgrant: anything but the tablet interface they were trying to push at first
07:47 < darkmeson> most computers have no touchscreen, so there's no way for it to work out right
07:48 < darkmeson> dynv-riot: that's the first message you see?
07:49 < darkmeson> and to be clear, you're using riot, and hitting the page up key doesn't have it retrieve more history?
07:51 < noirx> hello
07:52 < misinformed> hello noirx
07:52 < noirx> how is everyone
07:52 < darkmeson> what's actually most friendly to me are apps that are maximized in their own virtual desktops with pop under panel when I mouse to the bottom of the screen
07:52 < misinformed> I am feeling Linux-y this Monday morning
07:52 < darkmeson> that lets me quickly ctrl+alt+U/D/L/R to whatever I want
07:53 < darkmeson> and just about every DE can be configured to do it
07:53 < dullfire> darkmeson, just use xfce ffs
07:53 < darkmeson> dynv-riot: by loading sign, you mean the round spinner a lot of software uses anymore?
07:54 < noirx> i am confused yesterday my new girlfriend stoly my smartphone galaxy s7
07:54 < darkmeson> jsgrant: hidden panel at the bottom of the screen with all of the usual applets
07:54 < noirx> :~(
07:55 < darkmeson> mainly for the clock and app switcher, because a lot of my virtual desktops are actually vnc sessions, and alt+tab isn't bound into them
07:56 < darkmeson> dynv-riot: a few messages get lost from time to time for some reason. I'm not sure why you're not seeing the history though. I wouldn't have thought that they would be stored in a user-specific manner
07:56 < misinformed> noirx: how 'new' was your new girlfriend? did you meet her yesterday
07:57 < darkmeson> jsgrant: like I said, just about every DE can presents a traditional desktop layout
07:57 < Dr_Coke> What's up people
07:57 < Dagmar> Pfft.  Let her keep it.
07:58 < Dr_Coke> Dagmar I'm still waiting for the HTC U12 to come to australia
07:59 < Dr_Coke> Dagmar I wish they could have given me 8gb and 256gb storage but instead I got 6gb and 128gb
07:59 < noirx> misinfo few weeks
07:59 < darkmeson> it's definitely a problem having nearly all of the federated network connecting through a single homeserver, but synapse' alleged resource piggishness probably doesn't help matters
08:00 < noirx> some r like snakes, u invite, provide, chill, give love then hurt u
08:00 < Dagmar> Dr_Coke: That's not bad actually
08:01 < Dagmar> I'm not going to be like some hipster kid and say the S7 is trash, but since Sprint won't let their variant be unlocked (stole a page from AT&T there) I've been using the stock S7 firmware for the last month
08:01 < darkmeson> indeed
08:01 < Dagmar> I will say, without a hint of reservation, that my S5 running LineageOS runs better than the S7 stock does
08:02 < darkmeson> that's why dendrite, the heir apparent, isn't coded in python :)
08:02 < Dagmar> I'm going to replace the back on this S7 a second time, sell the damn thing, and go back to using my heavily modified S5
08:02 < Dagmar> I have run the Samsung initiative to upcycle cell phones as far as it'll go, and no joy on this model
08:05 < Dagmar> noirx: did you put your Google account credentials into the phone?
08:05 < Dagmar> noirx: If so.... Go change your password.  :)
08:06 < darkmeson> there are lots of developments going on in the Matrix community, but it reminds me a little of i2p in that people seemingly are perpetually picking something up, doing a little work, and then getting bored and dropping it for something newer and shinier
08:06 < Dagmar> FRP isn't perfect, but it's not trivially bypassed
08:06 < darkmeson> it's definitely an intriguing and accessible design though since it's basically just http and json
08:08 < darkmeson> Matrix will probably go a little better since there's more interest in maintaining bridges to other protocols
08:09 < darkmeson> Afaict, there's at least some connectivity with discord, slack, and various irc networks atm
08:10 < darkmeson> and more people plotting more integrations with other things
08:11 < noirx> my password is not known
08:12 < darkmeson> local logging would be nice, but I might need to fix the weechat-matrix script before I can cross that off my wish list
08:12 < Dagmar> A shame, because then you could remotely wipe the phone
08:13 < darkmeson> the french government is allegedly planning to use it for some of their official business
08:14  * darkmeson just wonders why the cops haven't been called yet
08:15 < darkmeson> inb4 jokes like, "with what phone?"
08:15 < darkmeson> jsgrant: noirx' girlfriend, for the swiped phone
08:16 < cmj> sounds condusive
08:16 < darkmeson> it's not like it's generally that hard to prove ownership or track down who has it and arrest them
08:16 < darkmeson> sounds interesting, but I have not
08:17 < cmj> is this linux related?
08:18 < Dagmar> I was hoping for a discussion of how that works, since it leads to explanations of the various mechanisms of secure booting we have available
08:18 < Dagmar> \*sigh*
08:18 < Dagmar> Too late at night for that I guess
08:19 < darkmeson> cmj: 'this' being...?
08:22 < cmj> can you tell us why this has any bearing on #linux
08:26 < darkmeson> again, what is 'this'?
08:28 < darkmeson> there were at least couple things going on simultaneously
08:35 < Hyouchuu> Hallo o/
08:35 < Kremator> Hyouchuu, yo
08:36 < Hyouchuu> What did I miss?
08:38 < Kremator> Hyouchuu, just a lot of join and parts
08:39 < Hyouchuu> Alright, sweet. Run them by me. Did we lose xXPuSsYsLaYeR69Xx?
08:39 < Guest92903> hi i was trying to set up nfs server and client.client was in vagrant.. now accidentally i have removed the nfs server instance, now in side vagrant if i do command like ls or df -h
08:39 < Guest92903> it takes forever
08:39 < Guest92903> which is the location i have to umount? or what is the fix
09:07 < tneva82> hello. How can I verify which version of java is installed and how would I go updating it? Seems server in question is SMP DEbian 3.2.54. Not looking forward on updating as there's always danger of something breaking up and this system is basically black box we barely understand(grr for guy setting up it and not leaving up good documents when he quit) but the system broke down anyway when the
09:07 < tneva82> 3rd party upgraded authentication to use TLS 1.2 only(alternatively if anybody have suggestions how to get that work would be great as well!)
09:08 < tneva82> Since the code uses java to connect I figured maybe upgrading java(likely 3 years old) might help. Maybe not but I'm drawing thin on ideas
09:08 < Disconsented> run java -version
09:08 < Kremator> tneva82, to check the versino just do a "java -version"
09:08 < tneva82> 1.6.0_32. How old is that?
09:09 < Kremator> tneva82, if you are using the openjdk, it should be upgraded from mirror
09:09 < Kremator> tneva82, way old, that it's java 6
09:09 < Disconsented> very
09:09 < tneva82> And how likely tls 1.2 would start working with upgrading java?
09:09 < Disconsented> I know there was a TLS fix in J8 100 something
09:09 < tneva82> I really hate tinkering with this server but since customers really need the feature that's broken and I'm running out of ideas starting to feel like soon need to risk it
09:09 < DynV> with no update nor install, can one watch youtube videos with antiX? as in "right out the box".
09:10 < Kremator> tneva82, just checked, java 6 is from 2006
09:11 < Kremator> so, way more than 3 yrs old, do you have anybody else from the company that could guide you tneva82, because if you upgrade java on that machine it's *possible* that you end up breaking that program even more
09:13 < Kremator> guys, does anybody knows if java 11 will be available for  buntus lower than 18.04?
09:15 < tneva82> Kremator: No alas I'm the most qualified guy. The guy that set it up left and later the dedicated server/linux guy left as well. So now alas I'm the only one who has ANY knowledge about system.
09:15 < tneva82> Good thing is that server basically exists only to run this piece of java code
09:16 < Kremator> tneva82, i have been there and done that, if is not that *urgent* i would suggest cloning entirely that server in a VM, upgrade there java to the latest version available and see if it works
09:22 < tneva82> Urgent as in our customers NEED it today...
09:24 < Kremator> tneva82, oh well, i guess no time for that
09:25 < jim> tneva82, what does cat /etc/debian_version say?
09:27 < tneva82> 7.4
09:27 < tneva82> don't tell that's like 10 years old version as well :D
09:27 < Kremator> ok, we wont tell you...
09:27 < jim> well the current stable is 9
09:28 < jim> and 7 is presently "oldoldstable"
09:28 < tneva82> can't understand how this can be that old system. Think this server was set up 2014. Why the guy would have put that old version there
09:28 < jim> and is still in the main mirrors
09:28 < Hyouchuu> 5 years, give or take
09:28 < Kremator> jim, more like "rustystable
09:28 < tneva82> well the debian then would be about right ballmark but why java is from 2006? Urgh.
09:29 < Kremator> tneva82, i dont want to fire up anybody, but that previous guys didnt made any maintenance at all to that machine
09:29 < jim> you can get closer by upgrading your debian... do you want to do that?
09:30 < jim> this is -not- guaranteed to get you "latest java", but it will be newer than it is now
09:30 < tneva82> Kremator: Well that previous guy left quite a while so he obviously hasn't been updating. And since nobody here understood how it really works we were affraid of touching it and accidentally breaking it
09:31 < tneva82> Wouldn't upgrading just java be bit less likely to cause issues? Though within today I probably have to try SOMETHING
09:31 < jim> if he had put software from outside of the debian archives, maybe that would break,,, dunno
09:32 < Kremator> tneva82, why dont you try downloading some oracle's jvm fromt heir webpage and try to run it?
09:32 < Kremator> i mean, using a jvm that is not the one from the repos + that would be the latest LTS jvm from oracle
09:33 < tneva82> well a) I'm waiting from the party whose system we are trying to connect to if they can help b) meanwhile I'm trying to find an how-to guide upgrading java in a debian
09:33 < jim> or try the openjdk
09:33 < Kremator> jim, i though the one he had was the openjdk
09:34 < jim> openjdk is likely to upgrade with regular debian upgrades
09:34 < Kremator> still, debian 7 saw it's EOL a few time ago
09:34 < jim> did he not provide notes as to what he was doing?
09:35 < Kremator> jim, since he wasnt making his job (talking about hte previous guy), probably indeed he didnt wanted to just put a white paper saying "i ain't done crap meanwhile, gl hf"
09:36 < tneva82> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-install-java-with-apt-get-on-debian-8 <- this looks like what might work
09:36 < tneva82> well at least in terms of upgrading java
09:36 < tneva82> whether that solves the issue we are trying to fix is another thing alltogether
09:36 < jim> you need to get to debian 8 then
09:37 < Kremator> tneva82, rememeber us, what was the problem between java and tls to begin with?
09:37 < oiaohm> tneva82: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS  so you have the LTS repo enabled and understand not all packages are covered.   Because you would normally want to upgrade off of debian 8 at this point.
09:38 < Kremator> for how long does debian foundation keeps an old version's repo online?
09:38 < tneva82> yeah the 3rd party we are connecting went from 1.1 to 1.2 which broke our service. We are getting SASL not responding errors. Reply is null.
09:38 < jim> well the first step is actually to bring his debian 7 to latest debian 7, then he can go to debian 8
09:38 < tneva82> We got new .crt certificates which fixed issues before but this time didn't help
09:39 < ShapeShifter499> hi
09:39 < jim> hi
09:40 < Hyouchuu> hello o/
09:40 < ShapeShifter499> if I run "cp -ra /test /mnt/tmp"     I wind up with /mnt/tmp/test      I don't want that, I want just the files under test to end up where /mnt/tmp is
09:41 < jim> tneva82, what do you want to do now, if anything? (I'm almost out of time(
09:41 < ShapeShifter499> I also want to copy everything, including dot hidden files/folders
09:41 < blaoi> I have a machine that I connect through SSH, but when I try to 'time' my commands on it the user time is always 0, is it normal ?
09:41 < jim> ok, no response... nite folks :)
09:42 < tneva82> get magical fix from god would be nice :D Feel free to leave. I can't do any on the spot decision yet. Need more info on options and maybe the 3rd party can help. Maybe problem is now one that needs us to change the java code
09:42 < tneva82> dunno. I don't know where the problem is so I have no idea what I need to do. Upgrading java was one of my last hopes but then again I don't know how to do that either.
09:43 < blaoi> For example : https://paste.linux.community/view/95e4fe3b
09:43 < jim> if you're going to upgrade anything, you first must bring your debian 7 to debian 7 uptodate before you can move on to upgrading 7 -> 8
09:44 < ShapeShifter499> sorry I just saw T flag for cp
09:44 < ShapeShifter499> seems to work
09:44 < jim> I take it this is on a remote?
09:44 < tneva82> upgrading just java doesn't work?
09:44 < tneva82> yeah
09:44 < tneva82> servers are physically about 170km away
09:45 < Dagmar> Do you have remote console access?
09:45 < jim> that's a lot more than 0.001 kms away :)
09:45 < tneva82> well I'm accessing them with putty
09:45 < Elladan> blaoi, that is normal for trivial commands
09:46 < Dagmar> You might want to find out if you have any form of remote console access before doing a major release upgrade, remotely.
09:46 < Dagmar> This is *not* a thing you should do on a production system without such
09:46 < blaoi> Elladan: I did ut on big software execution (took more than 12 hours) but the user time is still 0
09:46 < jim> a backup would be good too
09:46 < blaoi> Elladan: it*
09:47 < jim> ok, /me is out :)
09:47 < jim> have a good nite all
09:47 < Kremator> jim, cya
09:47 < Dagmar> This is one of those times where if something unexpected happens, you could be looking at grub> prompt saying something along the lines of "DURR WHAT ARE KERNELS ERROR"
09:48 < pingfloyd> keep a copy of grml on a usb stick around for such events
09:48 < Dagmar> ...but that's if and only if you have console access.  Without it, you get to make desperate phone calls and just "be down for awhile"
09:49 < Elladan> blaoi, your program may have done the work in a child process which was not tracked by time
09:49 < pingfloyd> nothing worse than being stick in an env that is super limited (e.g., busybox, grub shell, etc.)
09:49 < pingfloyd> s/stick/stuck
09:49 < Dagmar> No, there's having no console access at all when there's complete downtime
09:49 < pingfloyd> "if I could pull up man pages, maybe I could solve my way out of this mess"
09:49 < Dagmar> That is generally much worse, escalating quickly to astronomically worse
09:49 < Hyouchuu> pingfloyd: just another stick in the wall
09:50 < Dagmar> I've had to show up at a data center at 2 in the bloody morning, dressed like a giant muppet
09:50 < pingfloyd> yeah, that is even worse.  Usually that's when you have hardware problems on your hands.
09:50 < blaoi> Elladan: What is odd is that every commands on the machine have the same result : 0 as user time. I though that time was creating the child process for the command put through args
09:50 < pingfloyd> I was pretty much always on call, but fortunately most of the issue could be fixed remotely.
09:51 < pingfloyd> I put some work into giving myself better remote control too, for that very reason.
09:51 < Dagmar> Yeah the nighttime security guard wouldn't even look at my id
09:51 < Dagmar> "You wouldn't be dressed like that if you weren't supposed to be here."
09:51 < tneva82> only shining grace is that if server goes all haywire customer at least doesn't see it any differently than now
09:52 < tneva82> not much of a relief though
09:52 < Dagmar> *facepalm*
09:52 < pingfloyd> what happened to the good old days where if something went down, people called it a night.
09:52 < Dagmar> Pfft.  Not any of *my* people
09:53 < pingfloyd> "we'll get'er in the morning"
09:53 < Elladan> blaoi, run "time yes > /dev/null", wait a few seconds, and hit ctrl-c.
09:53 < Dagmar> Downtime is a thing that is Not On My Watch
09:53 < blaoi> Elladan: Now some user time came out
09:54 < Elladan> blaoi, see it works :-)
09:54 < blaoi> Elladan: Ah no sorry, I chose the wrong machine. It's still 0 lol
09:56 < Elladan> Ah well, that's not normal then, no. :-)
09:57 < ansraliant> mandatory XKCD https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/devotion_to_duty.png
09:57 < Dagmar> Damn right.
09:58 < Dagmar> I was ashamed of my coworkers when they asked me if we should leave the building because someone might be bringing a bomb to campus
09:58 < Dagmar> #1. People don't bomb data centers
09:59 < ansraliant> #2. Data centers are the safests places if a bomb happens
09:59 < Dagmar> #2. I'm pretty sure we had enough engineers in the building to defuse anything
09:59 < Hyouchuu> Not for the data
09:59 < pingfloyd> plenty of cover for humans though
09:59 < Hyouchuu> Fuck the humans
09:59 < pingfloyd> (the stuff with the data :D )
09:59 < heftig> maybe unless you get stuck inside with a gaseous fire suppression system
09:59 < pingfloyd> fuck the data
09:59 < Elladan> blaoi, for an example that's essentially all user time, you can run a straight infinite loop e.g. time sh -c "while true; do :; done"
09:59 < Dagmar> pingfloyd: until someone finds out what "lowest bidder" means with respect to raised flooring
09:59 < Hyouchuu> We've got five nines to keep up here
10:00 < Dagmar> Racks falling on you is non-trivial
10:00 < ansraliant> five nines? nice
10:00 < Dagmar> heftig: Uhm... none of those will kill you
10:00 < blaoi> Elladan: Still 0 for the user time
10:00 < pingfloyd> six nines are better
10:01 < Dagmar> 100% or GTFO
10:01 < Elladan> Look if our data centers were pure, the backup policy would include keeping backups and hot spares of the sysadmins in offsite storage too.
10:01 < Hyouchuu> I'll settle for 3 nines and a gameboy when it goes down
10:01 < heftig> Dagmar: how so? if you can't leave the room they will suffocate you
10:02 < Dagmar> heftig: Well, for one, because no one in their right mind designs a facility without fire doors
10:02 < pingfloyd> if you have those you have masks
10:02 < Dagmar> You basically *can't* get trapped inside, even if the room is on lockdown
10:02 < heftig> Dagmar: we're talking bombs, so the building might be half buried
10:02 < oiaohm> Dagmar: people have indirectly bomb datacentres.  Just think sep11 case when those two building come down.
10:02 < Dagmar> If you're visiting one and something happens, just follow the guy who works there
10:03 < oiaohm> Dagmar: so a datacentre may not be safe if a target of interest is near by.
10:03 < Dagmar> oiaohm: This wasn't a big city.  Nothing bigger than three stories for a few miles
10:03 < Elladan> I've seen a lot of electronic corporate locks which seemed very dubiously fail-safe in a fire.
10:03 < pingfloyd> wedge the visitor in the door jams
10:03 < Elladan> Like maybe it's fail-safe as long as the battery doesn't run out...
10:04 < pingfloyd> they end up being good for something after all
10:04 < oiaohm> Dagmar: not counting the data centers in those two builds 8 were taken out by sep11
10:04 < Dagmar> DCs are also generally secure enough from a physical standpoint that some rando isn't just walking in there, ever
10:04 < oiaohm> Dagmar: just from being built around the base.
10:04 < Elladan> Dagmar, lol that happened at a place I worked
10:04 < pingfloyd> set off an EMP bomb
10:04 < oiaohm> Dagmar: was not the wisest placement.
10:05 < Dagmar> oiaohm: Oh I know people who had equipment in those data centers.
10:05 < Kremator> Dagmar, if you dont have enough engineers to defuse the bomb, you sure have enough engineers to "cover it up" while you are running outta the building ;)
10:05 < Dagmar> Like, Noc guys who knew right away something was up
10:05 < Elladan> Some guy walked into the building on a Sunday via the parking garage, and just broke through all the electronic locks in about 1 second with a screwdriver.
10:05 < Dagmar> Kremator: Yeah.  Heh.  THe building was full of computer scientists and high energy physics people
10:05 < Elladan> They weren't secure against a guy with a big screwdriver just prying the latch open
10:06 < Dagmar> Elladan: lol @ your facilities manager then
10:06 < pingfloyd> why was he trying to get in?
10:06 < Elladan> Anyway he walked into our datacenter / test lab and walked right up to a cart filled with $50,000 worth of SSD drives... and had no idea what they were, so he grabbed a $300 laptop and a cordness screwdriver and ran off.
10:06 < oiaohm> There is not a normal door that will stop a person with enough intent.
10:06 < Kremator> Dagmar, that's not good, because in case of a bomb situation, your CS people would start a debate about which architecture the circuit is so they could safely cut the power cable, while the physics people would argue all day long about how the remanent electrcity would be enough to trigger it and blowit up
10:07 < Elladan> He was some meth head, just wanted to steal stuff
10:07 < Kremator> Dagmar, ending you with an endless debate, and with you dead when eventually the bomb goes offf
10:07 < Disconsented> >solid state drive drives
10:07 < Dagmar> Kremator: No, seriously.  Half the building was also doing hobbyist electronics
10:07 < oiaohm> My prefered tool for getting past a lock door fast when I have to is just a large sledge hammer and a good swing.
10:08 < oiaohm> Most places don't have steel doors that render that useless.
10:08 < Elladan> Most of the locks he got through were the office tower peoples' locks. Our facilities guy replaced our locks with better ones after that, but just for our doors.
10:08 < Kremator> >solid state drives >not being rock-made car drivers
10:08 < Dagmar> It's kind of sad places won't put in metal doors
10:09 < Kremator> Dagmar, well, imo a .38 revolver would be stopping the man planting a bomb than just 40 engineers defusing i post plant lol
10:10 < Hyouchuu> git commit stop living
10:10 < oiaohm> Dagmar: I still remember a few roberies I have seen.   Where they just get a concrette saw and cut a new door in the wall because the door was too hard.
10:10 < pingfloyd> just kangaroo line his ass
10:10 < Kremator> git commit ahallu ackbar
10:10 < misinformed> cmj: is this linux related
10:10 < MrElendig> forgot the -m "...."
10:10 < Hyouchuu> It is now
10:11 < Hyouchuu> Bringing it back
10:11 < Elladan> I saw some videos of people opening up gun safes
10:11 < oiaohm> Dagmar: theifs are good at finding the weakest point.
10:11 < Elladan> Took about 30 seconds max with a few pry bars
10:11 < pingfloyd> gun safe is more for keeping your kids out
10:12 < MrElendig> oiaohm: eh, a lot are not
10:12 < pingfloyd> if someone wants, what is in a safe bad enough, they'll find a way.
10:12 < Kremator> Elladan, the thing with gun safes is that there are 2 types of it basically, ones that are just "containers" that are pretty thin/slim and doesnt have too much weight by itself, adnthere are strongbox-like gun safes where the walls of the safe are like 5 cm of steel
10:12 < MrElendig> oiaohm: eg they went after our tools container at a construction site with a angle grinder, when it would have taken a whole 10 sec even for an absolute amateur to rake the lock
10:12 < MrElendig> oiaohm: they spent 4h cutting their way in
10:12 < Kremator> obviously the latter weights a metric fuckton, but its barely stole-able because it's weight
10:13 < Kremator> and most ofd that type are available to be "drilled" in your room's floor
10:13 < Elladan> Kremator, yeah but they don't sell those as the department store.
10:13 < Kremator> tru
10:13 < pingfloyd> only reason to have a gun safe is if you have kids.
10:13 < pingfloyd> otherwise you want your guns where you can get to them quickly
10:13 < MrElendig> oiaohm: the most <facepalm> bit was that the police was contacted after 5 minutes, but didn't show up until the next morning
10:13 < MrElendig> oiaohm: when 50k€ worth of stuff was gone
10:13 < Kremator> pingfloyd, nah, if they hav an accident with it, is just natural selection doigng it'¿s job
10:14 < MrElendig> oiaohm: the police station, the second largest in the country, is just across the street
10:14 < MrElendig> oiaohm: literally
10:14 < pingfloyd> and then you caught supper
10:14 < oiaohm> MrElendig: the case I saw on video was 5 min cut a new door.  The wall was only half a foot thick.
10:14 < oiaohm> MrElendig: 2 guys two concrette cutting saws and not thick enough wall.
10:15 < pingfloyd> if you're worried about a burglar getting your guns, it's better to hide them good if you need to leave them at home.
10:17 < oiaohm> pingfloyd: yes part of hiding them good is disasmble the ones you are not needing in a hurry.
10:17 < oiaohm> pingfloyd: theifs don't like have to play a game of gun jigsaw.
10:18 < pingfloyd> that's a good idea, especially for longer-term storage
10:18 < Elladan> I want to go away from this window for 10 minutes, and when I come back see you guys talking about sentry gun designs running Linux so the guns can defend themselves.
10:19 < pingfloyd> I wouldn't trust sentry guns
10:19 < pingfloyd> you got to think of them as land mines
10:19 < oiaohm> pingfloyd: I live in Australia I have been on many properties most of the places that have a breakin and not lose guns have done gun jigsaw the best I know the weapon parts are stored in independ buildings with the shortest distance between 20kms.
10:19 < MrElendig> oiaohm: https://goo.gl/maps/RJEyNZA9g4k  how far the police had to go
10:20 < oiaohm> pingfloyd: its over 200km of travel to put a gun back into one piece if you did it in order of asmebley.
10:21 < Elladan> MrElendig, they don't really have any police-type job that they do for robberies like that, they just file a report so you can make an insurance claim if you need it.
10:21 < Elladan> ... so who cares if it's tomorrow or next week?
10:21 < oiaohm> pingfloyd: that why gun jigsaw placement is so good its easier for a theif to steal anyone elses weapons.
10:21 < MrElendig> Elladan: they have police patrolling in the area 24/7
10:22 < MrElendig> Elladan: or just some random uniform could walk across the street and the thieves would have fled
10:22 < MrElendig> Elladan: the police here have had some big scandals recently for being totally incompetent :/
10:23 < MrElendig> Elladan: like claiming that a 8 year old kid managed to hang herself in a way that is physically impossible
10:23 < pingfloyd> if you shoot a couple of them, none will come around again.
10:23 < MrElendig> "oh, this is totally not murder, has a rope around the neck, must be suicide"
10:23 < Elladan> I liked the case here where someone stole some lady's tablet, so she got the GPS and drove over to their stash house and called the cops while parked outside... and they wouldn't send anyone.
10:24 < oiaohm> MrElendig: so no one has stolen the police gun safe yet.
10:24 < Elladan> ... so she wrote the story up and put it on the front page of the local paper, because she was a reporter LOL.
10:24 < pingfloyd> she got what she wanted
10:24 < oiaohm> MrElendig: that is the worst one on Australian record.  Stealing straight out active police station.
10:24 < pingfloyd> they fell right into that trap
10:24 < pingfloyd> wonder how they like entrapment
10:25 < pingfloyd> Elladan: you guys have keystone cops
10:25 < pingfloyd> MrElendig: ^
10:26 < MrElendig> http://www.newsinenglish.no/2014/10/22/childs-murder-unleashes-police-critics/ < only went downhill from there
10:26 < pingfloyd> the cops in England are pretty weak huh?
10:27 < MrElendig> some of them have gits
10:27 < MrElendig> guts*
10:27 < MrElendig> like in that famous video with the dude with the knife
10:27 < oiaohm> For funny but not the police.  One the people I knwo do something stupid.  Put is phone on top car and drove off.   The gps located and traced from one side of the city to the other and got it back.     It was a decent phone by the gps track it came off the car roof at 60km/h and did not break.
10:28 < pingfloyd> seems like they're more worried about being PC than fighting crime.
10:28 < oiaohm> Of course someone had picked it up why it went so far.
10:28 < Elladan> I once couldn't find my phone once we got to our rental place after a long flight, so I GPS'd it from my laptop.
10:29 < Elladan> It said the GPS was coming from inside the house!
10:29 < Elladan> The rental car had a bit in the dash that was just the right size and shape for the phone to slide into and become invisible.
10:30 < oiaohm> Elladan: I have had a glove box in one car that would love to eat phones.
10:31 < oiaohm> Elladan: if you put your phone in the glove box it magically disappears into the dash and ends up in front the the driver behind the speedo.
10:31 < Elladan> Evil
10:31 < Elladan> Now someone is going to say that's a great place to hide your gun aren't they
10:32 < oiaohm> Elladan: only if you want to be shot.
10:32 < oiaohm> Elladan: we did try a small hand gun in there with blanks.
10:33 < oiaohm> Elladan: yes it was put in the glove box with safety on.
10:33 < tneva82> workmate googled up and seems TLS 1.2 requires Java 1.7. Since we had 1.6 guess that IS the culprit. Maybe we get the hosting company do upgrade. Costs money and not sure if they have time to do it today but best shot of getting it working safely
10:33 < misinformed> let's talk about gun control
10:33 < MrElendig> tneva82: this is why hosting generally suck
10:33 < MrElendig> you get stuck on old and insecure software stacks
10:36 < veridiam> i've tried browsing with all but TLS 1.2 disabled, disheartening to see how many sites are still on 1.0
10:36 < MrElendig> tneva82: tell them that you will switch unless they upgrade
10:36 < peetaur2> veridiam: quality before quantity
10:37 < veridiam> wish i could make that call peetaur2 but my university is using 1.0 on all their hosts
10:44 < Jessica_> Is it possible to disable write caching for ALL external (flash) drives? e.g. by a udev rule or something? All I see on the internet is using hdparm on a specific device, which is not what I want.
10:44 < Jessica_> Using a GUI so stuff is auto-mounted, or mounted on click. Not using the command line.
10:56 < ir7466> Hi everyone
10:56 < ir7466> I was wondering if someone knows a quick unix command I can run - I have a folder, i want to count the lines of code in that folder and subfolders (but only from .php files)
11:00 < MrElendig> ir7466: sloc
11:00 < ir7466> thank you
11:00 < MrElendig> sloccount
11:01 < MrElendig> asuming you want actual lines of code
11:01 < MrElendig> and not include all the "fluff" in the files
11:02 < MrElendig> https://www.dwheeler.com/sloccount/  most distroes ships it
11:02 < MrElendig> optionally combine with find(1)
11:04 < notmike> There are some real special folks on IRC man, for real. Like I wonder if they've ever had meaningful real-world relationships and how that could even be possible.
11:04 < post-factum> notmike: wut
11:06 < notmike> post-factum: It's not important, just some people don't know how to communicate well with others. They're lacking emotional quotient or something, their brains only process rigid logic or something.
11:06 < notmike> Obviously this is never a problem in ##linux
11:06 < post-factum> notmike: once you become a little bit more older, you'll understand that 95% of people are subjected to this flaw
11:06 < mavorsa> when a program loads or its interface is updated and the graphics of the window suddenly get all scrambled, is this considered screen tearing or something else?
11:07 < MrElendig> not tearing
11:07 < MrElendig> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_tearing
11:09 < Elladan> mavorsa, what you're describing might be called an unclean redraw or just a graphics glitch or something. Screen tearing is a very specific thing involving buffer refresh.
11:09 < mavorsa> if its not screen tearing, i'm wondering what it is then, because ever since ive installed xfce on linux mint, with or without compositing, there are days when random windows just suddenly scramble until i maximize, restore, and/or run my mouse across the window. its annoying.
11:09 < Elladan> That sounds like a graphics driver bug
11:10 < mavorsa> i'm on a cheap lenovo ideapad 110, with mainly just an onboard intel chip setup.
11:10 < Elladan> It's hard to say more. It's also possible that it's a bad graphics processor, but that's less likely.
11:12 < Elladan> mavorsa, yeah that sounds like switching to a different kernel or x driver (or changing a driver setting) might possibly help.
11:12 < mavorsa> if enabling compositing doesn't help, im happy to keep it off (as it's not as snappy with it on anyway)
11:13 < Elladan> You wouldn't expect compositing to help with that.
11:13 < Elladan> It would be more likely to cause a problem like that.
11:14 < mavorsa> i'm not horribly keen on screwing with the x driver.
11:14 < veridiam> mavorsa, your BIOS may have some settings to increase VRAM allocation
11:14 < mavorsa> though to be honest, ive been putting off updating my kernel, i suppose i ought to
11:14 < Elladan> I'd start by just making sure it's up to date.
11:15 < Elladan> Next easiest with Mint is to pick a newer kernel.
11:15 < mavorsa> here goes then
11:15 < mavorsa> its not like im on arch anyway, so i know i don't have to be as scared of updates lol
11:16 < toffe> Hi guys, quick question. I got a binary which runs in terminal. It is self refreshing so it refresh the screen on new data. Trying to move the data from stdout to log.txt, is there a way to clear log.txt everytime the software refreshes screen? (The log.txt filles up with: ^[[H^[[J for every screen refresh and appends the file)
11:17 < Elladan> On my Intel graphics laptop, setting 'Option "DRI" "3"' in an xorg conf file was helpful with screen tearing (on Mint), but given that this isn't tearing that would more be just a random shot at something.
11:18 < Nothing4You> is there an "easy" way to use nfs4 with custom user mapping? i have user foo@host1 which i'd like to map to bar@host2, different uids
11:24 < MrElendig> toffe: got the source code?
11:24 < Elladan> Nothing4You, well, you can always squash accesses
11:24 < MrElendig> also, sounds a bit like a xyproblem
11:25 < toffe> MrElendig: Nope?
11:25 < MrElendig> what good does just overwriting the log.txt do? it is not much of a log if it only contains the last item
11:26 < toffe> MrElendig: the screen refreshes a list of computers
11:26 < toffe> so basically i want the freshest status of them
11:26 < toffe> not "log" in that case.. "currentComputers.txt" :P
11:26 < toffe> So instead of getting a huge file with lots of outdated data i would love to have the current data only.
11:27 < MrElendig> could write something in python or whatever that captures the refresh
11:27 < toffe> So not possible in sed or anything like that? Was trying to make a bash script who captures it but thought i might overthought it :P
11:28 < MrElendig> sort of kinda possible with awk, but really, python will make your life much better
11:28 < MrElendig> specially in 6 months when you have to look at the code and try to figure out wtf it is doing again
11:28 < toffe> MrElendig:  trying to make this a bash only script :)
11:29 < toffe> Oh well, gonna check out python :)  thanks for the tip
11:30 < snevs> hi all. I have a question related to logrotate. I want to use a wildcard so that my files matching *blah.log* are archived and I want the postritate to put a line in the file(s) saying that the old logs are located in a different place. is  that possible with wildcards? example: https://dpaste.de/AiHX#L12
11:31 < emajor> hi I noticed on distrowatch.com that Manjaro Linux has topped Linux mint... The First distro to do that in ages.. Any particular reason for this? Cheers
11:32 < MrElendig> emajor: distrowatch is 100% useless
11:32 < MrElendig> emajor: a distro that literally had only 5 users was #1 for a while....
11:32 < misinformed> which one was that?
11:32 < MrElendig> can't remember the name
11:32 < post-factum> lindows
11:32 < MrElendig> they just botted their way to victory on the "chart"
11:33 < MrElendig> literally just a white true: do curl ....; done
11:33 < MrElendig> while*
11:35 < lirwr> ls
11:45 < Nothing4You> Elladan: how would i do that?
11:45 < majcull56> we need to be inviting sphinx
11:45 < majcull56> loading up the documents
11:46 < majcull56> the kernel documentation
11:46 < majcull56> Error: You're not a channel operator
11:48 < MrElendig> majcull56: your bot is broken
11:51 < akd> !work
12:03 < freelancerbob> can you explain to me what is  Restart=on-failure in my tomcat.service ?
12:05 < freelancerbob> or what is defaulet value ?
12:05 < revel> I'd assume it's there so it "restarts on failure" :^)
12:05 < djph> ^^
12:06 < revel> I'd assume the default is for services not to restart by default, instead leaving it up to the people writing the service files to decide whether they should.
12:15 < MrElendig> freelancerbob: the man page tells you the default
12:15 < MrElendig> freelancerbob: it also tells you what it is
12:35 < majculluh> hey amun_ra been a while
12:35 < majculluh> did they let you out
12:36 < majculluh> Satan rituals
12:38 < majculluh> think of majculluh on a baked surface of the planet looking for water
12:38 < majculluh> all parts of the ego eine
12:38 < majculluh> up on the cross
12:38 < majculluh> amun_ra even if you stop the sun from shining
12:39 < majculluh> the blood drains out
12:39 < Amun_Ra> I am the sun
12:39 < majculluh> all part of the ego eine
12:40 < majculluh> in all your might you cant keep man alive hanging on a cross
12:40 < majculluh> some have called stauros
12:40 < Amun_Ra> that didn't even cross my mind
12:40 < majculluh> lots of radiation amun_ra
12:41 < majculluh> me am further from you now, feels like they took the compton link out
12:41 < majculluh> the radiation felt further away
12:41 < majculluh> maybe they thought I was icarus
12:42 < majculluh> or they want me to play with bacteria
12:42 < majculluh> you being the sun can you feel when me am closer
12:43 < majculluh> the ruler of the day
12:44 < majculluh> odd perhapse if I had a loopback interface I can measure distance to you in something like parsec
12:45 < majculluh> is it a constant 1 parsec in mind
12:45 < majculluh> but the flesh
12:46 < majculluh> when Job had skin boils
12:47 < majculluh> the truth is geography is illucive
12:47 < majculluh> how close did Job come
12:48 < majculluh> were you singing like Rhiana, "no space in between"
12:49 < majculluh> how about My Holy Water amun_ra
12:49 < majculluh> "bathed me in radiation"
12:51 < majculluh> still amun_ra have you no curiosity
12:51 < majculluh> as icarus did of you
12:51 < pocketmon> github cone or git cone?
12:51 < pocketmon> git clone?
12:51 < majculluh> would you come close to me?
12:52 < majculluh> hows about a ven?
12:53 < pocketmon> sudo: github: command not found. <— what’s wrong?
12:53 < toffe> pocketmon: try: git
12:53 < toffe> github is just a place to put a git repo
12:53 < pocketmon> ah
12:53 < pocketmon> :(
12:53 < pocketmon> thanks
12:53 < toffe> :) np
12:54 < majculluh> spontaneous human combustion was reported to be a happening
12:55 < toffe> majculluh: happens when you swallow 10gallons of gasoline and then tries to rape a candle.
12:55 < toffe> Nobody knows why.. yet
12:55 < majculluh> nothing like a healthy dose of thoughys of torture
12:55 < majculluh> keep the mind over the flesh
12:56 < majculluh> full submission
12:56 < majculluh> they don't know me amun_ra
12:56 < majculluh> they don't desire to follow
12:58 < majculluh> arcseconds from a thetan
12:58 < majculluh> at a constant 1 parsec
12:59 < majculluh> still thinking about you "the sun" a.k.a. amun_ra
12:59 < revel> Are you planning on stopping any time soon?
13:00 < majculluh> that is the consideration revel
13:01 < majculluh> aint it amazing?
13:01 < revel> Well, you don't seem to be doing anything besides for spamming anyway, so, might as well just stick you on ignore.
13:02 < majculluh> think if any of the required conditions were not met earth could be what we gear is mars
13:02 < majculluh> hear
13:03 < majculluh> such a conditional love ain't it?
13:03 < majculluh> so many conditions
13:04 < majculluh> and for what?
13:05 < majculluh> think of Job and his skin boils?
13:06 < majculluh> think of a perfect memory and what to do with it only to find nothing can be done with it
13:06 < majculluh> what a mind crucifix
13:06 < majculluh> to obtain all of the greatness which can be had
13:06 < majculluh> and have it crucified
13:06 < majculluh> stauros
13:07 < majculluh> with much wisdom comes much sorrow
13:08 < majculluh> do you boame solomon for having 700 wives 300 concubines
13:08 < majculluh> and of Joseph being tempted by Pharoes wife amun_ra
13:09 < OtakuSenpai> !ops
13:09 < majculluh> MemoryAlphaOmega
13:11 < majculluh> yeah yeah yeah ops
13:11 < misinformed> majculluh: go on
13:11 < V7> Hey all
13:11 < V7> Can't set up sshd
13:12 < djph> huh?
13:12 < majculluh> clean water is a great day in the sense we call good , good
13:12 < djph> last I checked it was "apt-get install openssh-server" ... and done (barring tweaks to the ciphers, etc)
13:13 < V7> When adding ChrootDirectory /home/user and trying to login it connets, but immediately disconencts
13:13 < Dagmar> It takes more than just a directory
13:14 < V7> Is it possible to makde a user be able to navigate in one directory recursively
13:14 < majculluh> misinformed have a great day
13:14 < misinformed> \o/
13:16 < V7> SO, I've read about ChrootDirecry and now config has: http://hatebin.com/oganupopup.nginx
13:16 < majculluh> xenocara
13:17 < djph> err, it doesn't show anythin
13:17 < V7> If I'd comment ChrootDirectory it'll work okay, but why it doesn't work with it being uncommented ?
13:17 < Dagmar> Probably because you did not put the required libraries and dev nodes into the chroot
13:17 < majculluh> bro. xenocara?
13:18 < ne2k> I'm trying to run spotify under Xvfb with snapcast server in an lxc container. I've created an asound.conf that just provides a single "file" playback device that pipes into snapserver. working fine. but there are some features that would be nice to have that require pulseaudio. if I run pulseaudio in the lxc container, it just hangs; can't get it to emit anything helpful in terms of debug output. any pointers?
13:18 < V7> https://hastebin.com/oganupopup.nginx *
13:18 < djph> Dagmar: pretty sure chroot inside of ssh-server is a little more lenient in that regard (not 100% sure though)
13:18 < V7> Dagmar: What do you mean ?
13:19 < djph> (1) is /home/user the right directory? (2) password-auth, really?
13:20 < V7> djph: 1) yes, 2) it's local
13:20 < spare> openssh has stfpd built in so you can lock a file server straight to an empty dir other wise it needs a full chroot with a working shell in it
13:20 < djph> what's the server log say about it.
13:21 < V7> djph: Tells opened session for user and nothing more
13:21 < spare> if you dump that in /home it means you cant mount it with noexec
13:23 < freelancerbob> it is possible to test AD credentials from LINUX ?
13:25 < misinformed> if there is an RDP server you can test your creds with freeRDP
13:27 < EugenA> how can I run "wmctrl -l" from root cron and get list of windows of all logged in users?
13:32 < kurahaupo> EugenA: start with export DISPLAY=:0.0 and then look at what authentication might also be needed
13:33 < kurahaupo> EugenA: try running it from a vt console before making a cron job
13:41 < EugenA> kurahaupo: running it from xterm seems to be not the same as running it as root cronjob
13:43 < EugenA> kurahaupo: should I put export DISPLAY=:0.0 into my cronscript or directy in cron command line?
13:44 < kurahaupo> EugenA: the shorter version would be simply « DISPLAY=:0.0 wmctl -l » all on one line, NO semicolon
13:49 < OlgaV> Hi! Is there something like ip netns add for mount namespaces? I'd like to create one and use it as a part of a script, and unshare doesn't really seem easy to use
13:49 < OlgaV> In this particular use case
13:50 < BSODjunkie> Where can I ask questions about the ubuntu subsystem in Win10?
13:52 < JimBuntu> BSODjunkie, you can ask in here.
13:53 < BSODjunkie> If I use the subsystem, and for example want to install a new Python library. Will this library then be available in Windows environment?
13:53 < BSODjunkie> so for example if I run pip install in ubuntu subsystem, and then go on my IDE, I will hav eit available?
13:54 < BSODjunkie> I am confused as to how much of the files are split and how much are combined
13:57 < EugenA> kurahaupo: this is not working:   * * * * * DISPLAY=:0.0; /usr/bin/wmctl -l >> /root/win-log
13:57 < EugenA> but it does work from terminal
13:59 < orb-a> hi
14:00 < orb-a> when i don't specify any MAC inside /etc/ssh/sshd_config that would mean I accept all MACs?
14:00 < kurahaupo> OlgaV: namespaces are an aspect of the clone() syscall -- essentially, fork() on steroids. So you need to think in terms of separate programs running "inside" and "outside" any new namespace. Netns is a bit of an exception, it can be created and linked to a new process
14:02 < JimBuntu> orb-a, If nothing is listed, then defaults are used. There are about 17 types used by default
14:03 < orb-a> JimBuntu, aah gotcha, i'll try it with the defaults then, thanks!
14:04 < ne2k>  I'm trying to run spotify under Xvfb with snapcast server in an lxc container. I've created an asound.conf that just provides a single "file" playback device that pipes into snapserver. working fine. but there are some features that would be nice to have that require pulseaudio. if I run pulseaudio in the lxc container, it just hangs; can't get it to emit anything helpful in terms of debug output. any pointers?
14:09 < zzero1> I have a problem with gpg and monkeysphere which channel can I ask ?
14:09 < heftig> What kind of interruptions can happen to a thread running SCHED_FIFO and an empty signal mask?
14:10 < mawk> ne2k: how did you try to run pulseaudio exactly ?
14:10 < mawk> instead of running pulseaudio inside the container, you can use the outside pulseaudio in the container
14:10 < mawk> afaik there are no tutorials on how to do it but I've done it before
14:10 < ne2k> mawk, I don't have pulseaudio outside the container, and I was trying to avoid having that. I want the host to be uncluttered
14:10 < mawk> I see
14:11 < OlgaV> kurahaupo: Thank you
14:11 < ne2k> mawk, I created a pulse config that I thought would create just a virtual file sink for snapcast to read, and then ran pulseaudio from the cli with debug output, but I get very little
14:12 < ne2k> mawk, it was a couple of days ago. let me try again and post some real output
14:12 < mawk> yeah
14:15 < nothos> Hey all, does anyone know if open source/universal alternatives to Dell's DRAC or HPs iLO cards exist?
14:15 < nothos> And does anyone have experience of them?
14:16 < nothos> ie just generic pcie cards that can be plugged into any system (within reason of course) to remote control
14:17 < ne2k> nothos, there's one called eRIC that I only came across because a hosting site I use had them in the machines
14:17 < ne2k> I htink they're old, though. can't remember who makes it, sorry
14:21 < inthl> my /proc/mdstat for some raid devices shows bitmap: 35/44 pages [140KB], 65536KB chunk ...does this actually mean that my chunk size is 64MB ?
14:23 < inthl> it says KB, not just B, so 64 MB seems kinda large to me
14:23 < BluesKaj> Hey folks
14:23 < ne2k> mawk, I just did a fresh install of pulseaudio in the container so everything is at defaults, and I get this: https://paste.linux.community/view/77301a5e
14:25 < ne2k> mawk, so I have a stock default.pa which has .fail at the start
14:26 < ne2k> mawk, running -n so it doesn't load the default file makes no difference
14:27 < BluesKaj> ne2k:  have you rebooted since installing pulse?
14:27 < ne2k> BluesKaj, it's a container. you think I should restart it?
14:28 < BluesKaj> dunnomanything about containers , but when one makews a major change to the audio system a reboot is in order
14:28 < ne2k> BluesKaj, well this question is entirely about containers
14:28 < BluesKaj> ne2k: ^
14:28 < ne2k> anyway, I've restarted the container and it makes no difference
14:29 < BluesKaj> restarting the container isn't a reboot
14:29 < ne2k> BluesKaj, why would rebooting the host change anything about pulse in a container?
14:30 < ne2k> BluesKaj, I only want a single virtual sink. I don't want to interface with any actual audio hardware
14:30 < mawk> ne2k: being in a container is preventing pulseaudio from setting its various priorities, but it shouldn't impact too much
14:30 < mawk> but I'm not an expert on pulseaudio, I just know some bits about containers
14:30 < BluesKaj> do what you want then
14:31 < kurahaupo> inthl: 64MB sounds fairly typical for RAID striping
14:31 < BluesKaj> muck about
14:31 < ne2k> I think I'm right in thinking that if you run pulseaudio -n -vvv it should just run pulse without actually trying to open any hardware
14:33 < inthl> kurahaupo, this is raid 1
14:33 < inthl> with tons of i/o on little to mid-size files
14:33 < ne2k> BluesKaj, why do you think rebooting the host would do anything?
14:34 < kurahaupo> Chunk size isn't meaningful for mirrored devices
14:34 < inthl> you mean it does not matter what chunk size it has in a mirrored setup..?
14:35 < BluesKaj> ne2k: , leat of all if t=run pulse in a container you'll also need alsa and alsa utils as the base for pulse to run on top
14:35 < BluesKaj> least
14:35 < ne2k> BluesKaj, why would I need alsa if I don't want to connect to any hardware?
14:36 < BluesKaj> because pulse needs alsa
14:36 < ne2k> BluesKaj, well, I have alsa in the kernel. and I can play sound into my alsa virtual sink fine.
14:37 < kurahaupo> inthl: If chunk size is, as I'm assuming, another name for stride, then no it doesn't matter.
14:39  * BluesKaj wonders how virtuals can run without using HW
14:40 < Karut> Does anyone here have experience with libvirt and cpu pinning?
14:40 < ne2k> mawk, if I run it on a real machine, I get https://paste.linux.community/view/93522af2
14:41 < mawk> ok, something looks wrong
14:41 < ne2k> so I am trying to work out why it gets no further than core-rtclock
14:41 < mawk> you don't get init messages from main.c and so on
14:41 < mawk> does pulseaudio exit on the container ?
14:41 < mawk> or it keeps running
14:41 < mawk> if it keeps running you can try to see where it's stuck
14:42 < mawk> first in /proc/$PID, then maybe with gdb and a pulseaudio compiled with debug info
14:42 < ne2k> mawk, no, it hangs (that's why you can see ^C in my first paste, I had to kill it)
14:42 < mawk> right
14:43 < twh> hi when i did a man fstab, the fifth field tells `This  field  is  used for these filesystems by the dump(8) command to determine which filesystems need to be dumped.`
14:43 < twh> what does the dump command does
14:43 < ne2k> twh, that is never used these days
14:43 < twh> why do we dump the filesystem
14:43 < ne2k> twh, it's ancient history.
14:44 < twh> ne2k: why was it used at ancient time
14:44 < ne2k> twh, lmgtfy
14:48 < BluesKaj> twh:  in other words, google is your friend :-)
14:52 < mawk> I sent some mail to google and it's sending me back a DMARC report, why ?
14:52 < mawk> pretty much everything inside the report says "pass", the mail was sent ?
14:52 < mawk> and received at the other end
14:53 < mawk> settings are adkim=r, aspf=s, p=reject, sp=quarantine, pct=100
14:54 < BluesKaj> ne2k: if you can play sound into our alsa virtual sink fine, why do you need pulseaudio?
14:54 < BluesKaj> our=your
14:55 < mawk> [14:04:29] <ne2k> [...] working fine. but there are some features that would be nice to have that require pulseaudio. [...]
14:55 < ne2k> BluesKaj, because the remote control app I am using for spotify uses pulse to be able to change the volume. plus I'm getting slightly gnarly sound and as this is the first time I've done it direct with alsa, I wanted to see whether that goes away if I use pulse as I have done before on a real machine
14:55 < BluesKaj> like flash on websites that don't use html5 I suppose
14:56 < TabMasher> Can someone suggest a decent BluRay burning software for Ubuntu?
14:56 < ne2k> mawk gets it. BluesKaj, I fear, does not
14:56 < BluesKaj> ne2k: intel audio
14:56 < BluesKaj> ?
14:56 < ne2k> BluesKaj, I don't understand the question
14:58 < ne2k> mawk, https://paste.linux.community/view/66e96fe4 strace
14:58 < BluesKaj> well, i guess I don't get it as mawk says. nevermind I'll back off, not understanding this container stuff is someaht confusing
14:59 < mawk> dbus is up and running I suppose ne2k ?
15:00 < ne2k> mawk, I did export $(dbus-launch) before
15:00 < BluesKaj> and Firefox requires pulse now, what a pita for those of us who feel forced to use pulse and would rather not "need it"
15:00 < mawk> the process is polling for an answer from the dbus socket
15:00 < mawk> and I guess that's when you killed it after some time
15:00 < ne2k> yes
15:01 < mawk> see in the dmesg of the host if there are any security violations from apparmor
15:01 < mawk> and maybe disable apparmor just to see if it works better
15:05 < ne2k> mawk:  I get this on the host when I try to run pulse in the lxc https://paste.linux.community/view/bd4330dc
15:06 < mawk> ah, apparmor is indeed blocking stuff
15:06 < mawk> but I'm not an expert on that
15:06 < mawk> just try to disable it and try again
15:07 < ne2k> mawk, disable what exactly? (I know approixmately zero about apparmor)
15:08 < klemax> I have got a problem after upgrading from 17.10 to 18.04. That happens on only KDE environment. After suspending, when the pc comes back, sddm freezes and I see white screen. I checked the logs and saw some ati drivers error there.
15:09 < klemax> I am not sure if the problem is a kernel issue or kde.
15:09 < BluesKaj> ne2k: for the record, pulseaudio can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, pulse merely a sound server. If the sound is distorted in some way then it's most likely at the source ...pulse is more of a source switcher daemon than an audio quality contoller
15:10 < ne2k> BluesKaj, do please stop talking
15:11 < BluesKaj> merely explaining, but I can stop talking to you if you wish
15:18 < BluesKaj> klemax: , you might get answer in the #kde chat
15:18 < klemax> BluesKaj: ok thanks.
15:31 < ChrisVim> hey guys i'm on an arch system with autologin to i3 via getty. if i start my system i can see an error message inside the terminal for a very short time before i3 is loaded. is it possible to close xserver to see what is running in the background? or are there any log files? cheers
15:33 < ChrisVim> in other words - is there a tty1 log running, and if yes, where can i find it?
15:34 < ChrisVim> ah got it -- journalctl -p 3 -xb
15:35 < ne2k> mawk, think I've cracked it. rtkit was failing to start because bionic containers have what is seemingly a bug. I had to put a dropin in to override it and make privatenetwork=no. don't really understand what it's doing but hey
15:37 < ne2k> mawk https://github.com/lxc/lxc/issues/820#issuecomment-373450705
15:39 < ne2k> mawk, thanks for pointing me in the direction of apparmor
15:40 < Shappy> Hello! I symlinked /var to /usr/var after I kept running out of disks space. I chose this as a dirty and quick hack instead of reinstalled due to time constraints. It's working fine but CUPS now refuses to print citing "Request Entity Too Large". All I've found is that it thinks there is not enough space in /var. These two are probably related.
15:40 < Shappy> Any ideas what went wrong? All FS are ext4.
15:41 < djph> can't symlink between partitions
15:41 < djph> *filesystems
15:42 < Shappy> djph, why is that?
15:42 < Shappy> Isn't symlink just a plain url to somewhere else?
15:42 < ne2k> djph, wut
15:42 < ne2k> of course you can symlink between partitions
15:43 < djph> Shappy: *facepalm* i'm retarded without caffeine...
15:43 < azarus> Shappy: no, symlinks aren't URLs
15:43 < Shappy> Oh okay
15:43 < azarus> but you can symlink between filesystems
15:43 < ne2k> you can't *hard* link across filesystems
15:43 < Shappy> azarus, I mean... basically it's just a text file with a path
15:43 < djph> thinking of hardlinks, not symlinks
15:43 < azarus> Shappy: yes, but in no way does it follow the URI spec
15:43 < Shappy> And some extra flags
15:43 < Shappy> azarus, yea, I guess URL in this case was a bad choice of words
15:44 < ne2k> azarus, Shappy, pedantry aside, yes, it is just a "file" with a text string in it pointing you to a new path
15:44 < azarus> ^^
15:46 < orb-a> hi
15:46 < orb-a> how can i log out a DE session remotely?
15:46 < ayecee> pull the power cord
15:47 < orb-a> but keep the system running ** ayecee :P
15:47 < revel> pkill X
15:47 < orb-a> revel, mhmm, is there not something smoother?
15:47 < revel> There probably is.
15:47 < orb-a> i tried systemctl stop sddm, but doesnt seemed to work
15:47 < revel> xfce4-session-logout
15:47 < revel> (maybe, didn't test)
15:48 < orb-a> ill try that thanks, using kde, but maybe that works too
15:48 < ayecee> ls
15:48 < revel> Probably not.
15:48 < ayecee> sigh
15:48 < revel> Man page says it'll just display the message unless you pass one of its options.
15:49 < revel> And it does.
15:52 < kaushal_> Hi
15:53 < kaushal_> is there a way to find port number from ProcessID?
15:54 < klemax> netstat -pl | grep pid
15:54 < Psi-Jack> netstat is obsolete and broken. use ss
15:55 < Amun_Ra> comparing to nestat, ss output is almost unreadable
15:55 < Psi-Jack> ss output is quite readable.
15:55 < ayecee> oh ok
15:55 < Psi-Jack> And not broken and not obsolete.
15:55 < Amun_Ra> it's awful
15:55 < Shappy> So I kind of "solved" my broken CUPS problem. Apparently AppArmor does not allow symlinks so all policies pointing to anything in /var are now broken.
15:55 < Amun_Ra> it's systemd of network statistic tools
15:56 < kaushal_> klemax: it is not returing port number
15:56  * Psi-Jack rolls his eyes.
15:56 < ayecee> "it's unreadable." "actually, it is readable." "oh, i never thought of it that way."
15:56 < kaushal_> Psi-Jack: using ss tool can i find out port number from ProcessID?
15:57 < ayecee> kind of. you can find a process given a port number, which is almost the same
15:57 < Psi-Jack> kaushal_: Actually yes. Do you know the process name?
15:57 < kaushal_> nope
15:57 < Psi-Jack> Port?
15:57 < kaushal_> I want to find out port number from processID
15:57 < azarus> TCP port?
15:58 < azarus> what kinda port?
15:58 < kaushal_> i can find out processid using netstat -anp | grep 3000 where 3000 is port number
15:58 < kaushal_> How can i find out port number from ProcessID?
15:59 < kaushal_> azarus: yes it is tcp port
15:59 < ayecee> same way except you grep for the processid
15:59 < moog> Amun_Ra: watch https://agmen.org/netsstat  :)
15:59 < Psi-Jack> ss has filtering capabilities without the need for grep.
15:59 < kaushal_> ayecee: it just return tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:ssh             0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN      3793/sshd
16:00 < kaushal_> does not show port number
16:00 < kaushal_> 3793 is processID
16:00 < ayecee> kaushal_: port 22
16:00 < klemax> probably lsof would help him
16:00 < Amun_Ra> moog: nice ;)
16:00 < kaushal_> ayecee: i know it but in the above output it doesnot report port number
16:00 < ayecee> did you use -anp? it doesn't normally look like that with the -n
16:00 < moog> Amun_Ra :) for lazy people :)
16:01 < Amun_Ra> moog: for humans ;)
16:01 < bef848f> How can I quickly find out window's class name?
16:01 < moog> :)
16:01 < ayecee> kaushal_: or is there something else unusual about the system?
16:02 < Amun_Ra> bef848f: xprop/xdotool
16:03 < bef848f> Amun_Ra: Thanks!
16:04 < Nirvash> Does anyone happen to know what "sudo !!" does? I saw someone use it, but I can't find any ref in man.
16:04 < Psi-Jack> Nirvash: !! repeats the last command.
16:05 < azarus> Nirvash: !! is a bashism for the last command
16:05 < Nirvash> That's what I thought, that's awesome! Is there a reference to it anywhere by chance?
16:05 < azarus> man bash ;)
16:05  * Nirvash definitely retyped entire commands instead of using that in the past...
16:05 < azarus> or info bash
16:06 < Nirvash> Haha, sure enough! https://linux.die.net/man/1/bash Thank you
16:13 < felix_vs> What is a good list of textbooks to help educate an aspiring programmer? would like to hear names of books you may have read and hopefully reasons for why you think they are good. thanks in advance :-)
16:18 < nooodlesnodes> I have a point of sale till/register that runs some super locked down version of linux. I need to be able to highlight more then one item in one of the lists but holding down shift and pressing down on the keyboard board arrows does nothing ( the keyboard works when plugged into usb). Anyone know of any other way to accomplish this?
16:20 < nooodlesnodes> also anyone that can find a user manual for the reflection OS point of sale software I would be willing to pay a bounty for.
16:21 < nooodlesnodes> Ive looked high and low. and phoning the company gets you a take it to your authorized dealer response
16:22 < felix_vs> nooodlesnodes: what PoS program is that? sounds like you are not satisfied with the UI of the program. my guess is to try and contact the developers/maintainers if the program's project is still active.
16:25 < RusAlex> how can I count occurences of line in a file
16:25 < RusAlex> ?
16:26 < icy`> hi, any advice on distro with strong package manager that won't choke if i don't update it in like 1-2 years and then try to update?
16:26 < leftyfb> RusAlex: grep -c "some string" file
16:27 < icy`> don't need a GUI.  Was using gentoo and got into a world of shit after updating after a long wait
16:28 < RusAlex> leftyfb: I need to count all occurences of each line from a file. do not have a specific values, all values are in the file
16:28 < felix_vs> icy`: how about Debian or CentOS? just my guess for stable distro with long time support. haven't used either of them for the record
16:28 < nooodlesnodes> felix_vs, the till is very new but I cannot find just about anything about the OS. It is called reflection OS point of sale software
16:28 < RusAlex> leftyfb: mostly I just want to get most often bash commands from bash_history
16:29 < leftyfb> RusAlex: history | awk '{CMD[$2]++;count++;}END { for (a in CMD)print CMD[a] " " CMD[a]/count*100 "% " a;}' | grep -v "./" | column -c3 -s " " -t | sort -nr | nl |  head -n10
16:29 < leftyfb> RusAlex: ^ from google
16:29 < felix_vs> nooodlesnodes: from looking at the website for 'reflection Point of Sale' (nncus company) , i get the impression it's a proprietary software program
16:29 < nooodlesnodes> felix_vs, yes
16:29 < nooodlesnodes> http://www.nccusa.com/pos-products/point-of-sale-solution/
16:30 < nooodlesnodes> its rubbish thou
16:30 < icy`> felix_vs, i love gentoo dearly (emerge is amazing package manager).   It's just I had an old server that just "worked" for a while.  Then I wanted to try a new package and suddenly there's this tornado of dependencies and nothing has a clear upgrade path.  Took me by surprise; I might just ask them for general maintenance advice.
16:30 < felix_vs> nooodlesnodes: honestly there is little i can do for you with regards to support with tweaking the program's UI. in fact i don't think anybody here would be able to help you in this case of proprietary software.
16:30 < RusAlex> leftyfb: spasibo
16:31 < nooodlesnodes> well I was just wonder about any other way to highlight if holding shift and arrow keys does not work
16:31 < felix_vs> nooodlesnodes: my honest suggestion is either go with the stream (contact the program's company) and pressure them to change the software to your needs, or go against the stream (find another POS solution)
16:32 < felix_vs> nooodlesnodes: try other modifier keys? Ctrl for instance
16:32 < felix_vs> nooodlesnodes: other than that no idea
16:33 < felix_vs> I'll attempt to kickstart the discussion re: recommendation for textbooks useful for an aspiring programmer. Anybody here read either of (1) The Art of Computer Programming (TACP) by Donald Knuth, or (2) Introduction to Algorithms by Cormen et. al (CLRS) ? want to hear your opinions, thanks.
16:34 < greves_> Hello, I wonder if anyone has seen this problem before: I have a bluetooth earpiece/microphone, which works well in Mint 18.3, except that (seemingly) randomly the mic becomes muted when on calls
16:34 < greves_> When the mic mutes, my headset says "Mute On" so I know it's muted, and people stop hearing me
16:34 < greves_> Of course, I didn't issue any command to mute the mic (or click any button, etc). Any ideas?
16:38 < felix_vs> greves_: I'm running Mint 18.3 and the Bluetooth program is called 'Blueberry' on my machine. you could try report this bug in the Linux Mint bug tracking community site, or try to contact the developers of the project.
16:38 < felix_vs> greves_: also you could try Linux Mint's IRC channel on SpotChat for support they may be able to give
16:40 < Psi-Jack> Hmm
16:42 < greves_> OK
16:42 < greves_> thx
16:46 < simbalion> Is there a "easy" way to determine what local processes are initiating a TCP connection on 127.0.0.1:25?
16:47 < storge> netstat -vantup
16:48 < storge> not sure if you need all the output from -vantu but you'll need the p
16:58 < bruxc> seeking help with centos7 network issue. interface fails to start either via systemctl or service. I've done a few things and can elaborate further but had hoped someone with free time could walk through some troubleshooting steps?
17:21 < CrazyTux> has anyone here tested MX Linux?
17:21 < CrazyTux> a Debian stable based distro.
17:22 < SuperSeriousCat> What do it provide that Debian dont do?
17:22 < jim> CrazyTux, never heard of it till this moment
17:22 < CrazyTux> SuperSeriousCat, I think it makes Debian a lot easier for newbies.
17:23 < jim> how does it do that?
17:23 < CrazyTux> https://mxlinux.org/
17:23 < CrazyTux> https://mxlinux.org/testimonials
17:24 < jim> CrazyTux, and, you said "I think", which could mean you have an opinion :)
17:24 < CrazyTux> jim, yes. I think it is the best Xfce implementation of a distro.
17:25 < jim> what has you think that/
17:25 < jim> ?
17:25 < CrazyTux> the tools it provides makes Debian easier for a newbie.
17:26 < jim> example of a tool it provides?
17:27 < CrazyTux> jim, did you check those testimonials?
17:27 < simbalion> how do I view an active terminal session? (eavesdrop)
17:27 < jim> nope :) I'm much more interested in hearing your testimonial :)
17:27 < AppAraat> hi, I want to rip my CDs and I'm about to choose between LG Slim GP50NW40, LG GP50, or an Asus Zendrive SDRW-08U7M-U - in terms of Linux compatibility, which one would you go with?
17:28 < CrazyTux> jim, :)
17:28 < jim> CrazyTux, but you knew this would happen :)
17:29 < bruxc> seeking help with centos7 network issue. interface fails to start either via systemctl or service. I've done a few things and can elaborate further but had hoped someone with free time could walk through some troubleshooting steps?
17:29 < CrazyTux> jim, :)
17:29 < jim> what kind of interface?
17:31 < jim> CrazyTux, so let me ask this... had you tried out any of these tools that mxlinux says makes it easier for new folks?
17:32 < CrazyTux> jim, yes. One of them was taking the system snapshot and writing it on a pendrive or a dvd so that it can be installed on another computer.
17:33 < bruxc> jim eth0
17:33 < jim> interesting... does that use debian's preseeding functionality?
17:33 < CrazyTux> jim, what is that?
17:34 < jim> preseeding is a way to install the same debian on multiple machines, by way of package installs and questions that debian normally asks during install
17:35 < jim> (of a package or of the whole dist)
17:35 < jim> you write a text file, and that file is read by the preseeding stuff
17:36 < jim> I don't know exactly how it works, never had to use it
17:36 < jim> but I've seen em talking about it
17:36 < napalmgrenade> Hi, I was wondering how I can run a command that opens a pdf and run it in the background using &, then append a disown command at the end of that. RIght now I have "evince pdf.name &", then I type disown after that command returns. Is there a way to combine the statements into one line?
17:37 < rumpelchen> napalmgrenade, "evince pdf.name & disown"
17:37 < napalmgrenade> ah ok that worked, I was trying semi-colons, thanks
17:37 < jim> napalmgrenade, what happens when you try it that way?
17:38 < CrazyTux> jim, ok
17:38 < napalmgrenade> @jim works as intended
17:39 < jim> CrazyTux, what's that tool called in mx linux?
17:39 < AppAraat> bruxc: what is the model of the interface? Also what does the syslog say (journalctl -l in your case)
17:39 < bruxc> AppAraat: virtual. it's a virtual machine, its host is Hyper-V.
17:40 < AppAraat> can you also see it in ifconfig -a ?
17:40 < bruxc> Yup, it's in ifconfig -a
17:41 < kazdax> my rhel system shuts down after inactive use
17:41 < kazdax> i tried looking for .var.log.messages an seeing any suspicious
17:41 < kazdax> i cant seem to find anything that could be causing the shut downs
17:41 < kazdax> any idea would greatly help ..i just want this system to run smooth
17:41 < prussian> mcelog
17:43 < oerheks> interesting Jim, https://mxlinux.org/tools-make-common-tasks-easier  http://mxlinuxguide.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_39.html
17:44 < toothe> is the dlopen() function still used?
17:44 < toothe> just looking through some old code I wrote.
17:44 < oerheks> not sure if that snapshot is just a wrapper around DD to make a static copy
17:45 < kazdax> i try an run mcelog
17:45 < kazdax> and it says cpu unsupported
17:45 < kazdax> God damm old systems
17:48 < jim> CrazyTux, so far over the years that we've seen you here, you've gained a lot of experience with installing a bunch of different linux dists, and so now that you've done all that, you've become a fairly good resource for comparing dists and selecting a dist
17:48 < oerheks> +1
17:48 < oerheks> mister distrowatch :-D
17:50 < jim> I'm curious though, which dist have you settled on, committed to? (as you must think, there's a LOT of stuff you can learn by focusing on pretty much any one dist for a fairly long time...
17:51 < jim> also, linux (and unix, and other unix-alikes) are really good for folks who program in one or more languages, and I'm curious if you also do any programming/coding, on any os?
17:53 < jim> (it might be the first "killer app" of all the *uxes
17:53 < jim> )
17:54 < abuz_> hi
17:55 < kazdax> hello
17:55 < AppAraat> that MX Snapshot thing sounds nifty
17:58 < Baughn> I'm trying to build the systemd units for importing a ZFS pool, which means discovering and waiting for all the relevant devices.
17:58 < Baughn> As a stopgap, is there a command line parameter I can set to make the kernel wait for all device scans to be completed before handing over to init?
17:59 < abuz_> why setting cgroup like this: https://pastebin.com/YGRAiy2N   I still have the process using 100% cpu?
18:00 < abuz_> the cgroup seems to be asigned correctly, I see the pid in cgroup.procs
18:10 < CrazyTux> jim, I am just a non technical end user.
18:12 < bipul> end user?
18:12 < revel> i.e not a dev.
18:14 < CrazyTux> yes. I am not a dev.
18:15 < triceratux> CrazyTux: tumbleweed xfce is shipping linux 4.17 [    0.000000] Linux version 4.17.1-1-default (geeko@buildhost) (gcc version 8.1.1 20180523 [gcc-8-branch revision 260570] (SUSE Linux)) #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Jun 14 06:39:01 UTC 2018 (df028bb)
18:15 < nomoney4u> hi all, question: my server was offline, I am trying to figure out why it went offline, last -x shows:  wtmp begins Mon Jun 18 12:05:36 2018  is there any other places I can check to see what went wrong? I am using ubuntu server 16.04
18:16 < CrazyTux> triceratux, I tried Gecko Linux 15 KDE. After installing I updated it. Then, when I restarted it the keyboard and mouse were not responding at login. Gecko is based on Opensuse 15.
18:18 < triceratux> CrazyTux: i had issues with the current gecko as well. the network was simply not up, with the NM applet just looping there. they wont be able to release stuff in that state for long, & theyre the only distro based directly on leap itself
18:19 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok. Is the problem specific to Gecko? or is it there in Opensuse Leap also?
18:20 < triceratux> CrazyTux: cant say. leap itself is too bulky for me to run directly. i guess im lucky i can run opensuse at all because of my patience with their tumbleweed xfce
18:20 < bipul> Then?
18:20 < bipul> Where you work? CrazyTux :D Hope you don't mind to answer:D
18:21 < CrazyTux> bipul, I am not a dev.
18:21 < triceratux> CrazyTux: but like i say they go thru phases. they have too many projects going so none of them has enough users to notice even the obvious bugs fast enough
18:22 < zipppy> bipul: What is your taxID?  :D Hope you don't mind to answer :D
18:22 < CrazyTux> triceratux, now, live versions of OpenSuse Leap KDE and Gnome are available now.
18:22 < CrazyTux> triceratux, they are of 1 GB approx.
18:23 < bipul> zipppy, nah i don't mind, but we have PAN not taxID.
18:23 < zipppy> lol
18:23 < CrazyTux> and btw, can we make OpenSuse Leap 15 as convenient to use as Gecko?
18:24 < CrazyTux> triceratux, Leap is supposed to be stable.
18:24 < triceratux> bwahahaha my tumbleweed 20180615 xfce is 645M
18:24 < GunqqerFriithian> someone on reddit suggested `top | grep $ProcessName` to find the PID of $ProcessName (They didn't use $ProcessName, but this works)
18:26 < zipppy> top | grep is a new one
18:26 < zipppy> reddit continues to get dumber all the time.
18:26 < triceratux> CrazyTux: i can run opensuse xfce from a physical cd while im waiting them to spend a couple years cleaning up leap & having the improvements propagate downstream
18:26 < revel> I'd rather just use `pgrep`
18:27 < GunqqerFriithian> i said ps -A | grep
18:28 < GunqqerFriithian> or, as OP wanted to kill something, killall/pkilll -f
18:29 < CrazyTux> triceratux, ok
18:32 < bipul> How Openstack is different from hypervisor?
18:39 < Sitri> bipul: A hypervisor is a trait of a specific setup of virtual machines (where you have one VM control all the others on that host, and there isn't an accessible host interface).  Openstack is a platform that can run VMs and other things.
18:40 < bls> see also dom0 domU etc
19:26 < Dr_Coke> triceratux rindolf jim Psi-Jack
19:26 < Dr_Coke> HELLO
19:26 < rindolf> Dr_Coke: hi
19:26 < rindolf> Dr_Coke: sup?
19:27 < Dr_Coke> fanbois in the apple room
19:27 < Dr_Coke> driving me nuts
19:35 < mophed> salutations
20:18 < dimm> hello, All! is this possible mount filesystem ext4 for non-privileged user via /etc/fstab?
20:18 < ayecee> who's going to stop you?
20:19 < revel> Check `man fstab`, but yes.
20:19 < prussian> dimm: the `user` option
20:19 < prussian> better off using something like gvfs though honestly
20:20 < prussian> udisks, gvfs, even autofs.
20:21 < MrElendig> dimm: is this an internal disk?
20:21 < dimm> MrElendig: this is hard disk partition =/
20:21 < MrElendig> why not just permamount it?
20:22 < dimm> from man: "              user   allow a user to mount"
20:22 < victorqueiroz> What laptop do you recommend for software developing? I'm thinking about a not so high end ThinkPad, i5 or so with a 256 SSD
20:22 < dimm> i was add "defaults,user" into fstab, but fs mounted and mountpoint change to root:root
20:22 < MrElendig> victorqueiroz: anything with a good screen and keyboard
20:23 < MrElendig> dimm: ext4 stores the permissions on the filesystem itself
20:23 < prussian> dimm: then you want gvfs which can umask things for you
20:23 < MrElendig> and really, why not just permamount it?
20:23 < MrElendig> much simpler
20:23 < victorqueiroz> MrElendig: would you have any laptop in mind to recommend? any which you use currently or so
20:23 < MrElendig> victorqueiroz: imo all current laptops just plain suck
20:24 < dimm> am i right understand that i must mount as root, then change permissions and be happy?
20:24 < MrElendig> just mount it to /home/pr0n and chown/mod as needed
20:25 < dimm> it is working thanks a lot!!!
20:26 < dimm> several year ago was build kernel without any problem... now can't mount =)
20:26 < EvilRoey> hey hey
20:26 < EvilRoey> are prices on SSDs set to drop massively this fall?
20:27 < MrElendig> no
20:27 < EvilRoey> thanks!
20:27 < MrElendig> will probably drop a little bit, but not massively
20:27 < MrElendig> 1-5cents/gb maybe
20:28 < MrElendig> not on the same product, I suspect there will be some new cheap trash tier devices out
20:31 < victorqueiroz> MrElendig: So I should probably wait up a little?
20:31 < MrElendig> victorqueiroz: doubt they will improve in this decade
20:32 < MrElendig> the trend is going the other way
20:32 < MrElendig> eg almost no laptops being made anymore with replaceable batteries
20:33 < MrElendig> specially not 18650/similar sized ones
20:35 < MrElendig> 14", plastic case, 18650 batteries, 1080 or 1440p with good accuracy, atleast 3 usb-c ports (also usb-c for charging) and ethernet
20:36 < BlueProtoman> I want to pipe the output of multiple processes (in sequence, not in parallel) to a fifo, but I don't want the process reading from the fifo to stop until the very last process finishes.  How do I do that?
20:36 < MrElendig> add a "all done, you can stop listening now" flag at the end
20:37 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: Me?
20:37 < MrElendig> sounds like a xyproblem though
20:37 < MrElendig> yes
20:38 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: Possibly.  Here's what I really want to do: I have a bunch of bzip2-compressed files.  I want to extract their contents and store them in a 7z archive, but as one big file.  However, this is a lot of data so I don't want to put too much on the underlying file system.
20:38 < MrElendig> why 7z?
20:39 < BlueProtoman> I've determined that it provides very good compression for what I want to store
20:39 < MrElendig> anyway, wrong way to do it since 7z can append
20:39 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: To an existing file in the 7z archive?
20:40 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: Note: I do not want to add a *new* file to the 7z archive.  I want to *append* to an existing one
20:40 < ayecee> 6z was already taken
20:42 < MrElendig> anyway, lbzip2 -dc *.bz2 | 7z ....
20:42 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: ...duh.  I've gone and overthought this.  Thank you.
20:42 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: But why lbzip2?
20:43 < MrElendig> or plain bzip, either works
20:43 < BlueProtoman> Wait, actually, one more thing I forgot to mention
20:43 < MrElendig> lbzip2 is smp
20:43 < BlueProtoman> These bzip2 archives are themselves stored in a big tar file (the tar archive is not compressed but the bzip2's inside are)
20:44 < cristian_c> hello
20:44 < MrElendig> tar | bzip2 | ... then
20:44 < cristian_c> I've built and installed easycap smi driver (kernel module)
20:44 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: Ah, gotcha, thanks
20:44 < cristian_c> I've got driver sources from github repository (via AUR on archlinux, and via github in ubuntu)
20:45 < cristian_c> I've also loaded firmware too (in addition to driver loading)
20:45 < cristian_c> so, I've started vlc and I've connected easycap dongle to input source and to usb port
20:45 < cristian_c> if I look at dmesg output I see a large amount of messages (all them almost the same message)
20:46 < cristian_c> 'smi2021 Skip broken frame N line, but need 240 in current 480 height'
20:46 < MrElendig> I would do tar.xz or zstd though
20:46 < cristian_c> vlc screen is always blank, btw
20:46  * MrElendig is not a fan of 7z
20:46 < cristian_c> so, how could I solve this issue, in order to grab video from the device?
20:46 < cristian_c> any ideas?
20:47 < MrElendig> cristian_c: could talk to whoever made the device
20:47 < MrElendig> and/or the v4l2 ml, asuming it uses v4l2
20:47 < cristian_c> MrElendig: I don0t know. Why?
20:47 < cristian_c> *don't
20:48 < MrElendig> why? because since they made it, they might actually know how to fix it
20:49 < cristian_c> MrElendig: I don't know if who has made the device, has also developed linux driver
20:49 < MrElendig> looks like a bug was opened in 2015 on gh and then ignored
20:50 < cristian_c> I'll try to look at v4l2 mailing list too
20:50  * MrElendig would get a better supported device
20:55 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: I've tried xz, zst, and 7z.  7z got me the best compression ratio (I compressed 1.4TB of plain text into 45GB with 7z)
20:55 < MrElendig> speed varies massively
20:55 < MrElendig> also, flags changes the ratios a lot
20:56 < victorqueiroz> BlueProtoman: Omg, where did you get so many plain text data?
20:56 < BlueProtoman> victorqueiroz: Scraping Twitter.  That's about 130 million tweets.  And I'm expecting more soon.
20:56 < hexnewbie> Anyone know how to fix this: “tkSettings:gtk-icon-sizes has been deprecated since version 3.10 and should not be used in newly-written code.”
20:56 < hexnewbie> s/tkSettings/GtkSettings/
20:57 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: Yes, it turns out 7z lets you pick from one of a few compression algorithms.  The one I'm most interested in, whose name escapes me, is specifically tuned for plain text
20:57 < BlueProtoman> Yes, speed varies massively, but with this much data on-hand I'm willing to make the trade-off
20:57 < hexnewbie> Is GTK 3 really impossible to customise at all?
20:58 < MrElendig> tar lets you use anything you like
20:58 < MrElendig> and is more widely supported
20:58 < MrElendig> hexnewbie: it is highly customizable
20:58 < hexnewbie> LOL
20:58 < MrElendig> hexnewbie: and in a much saner way than gtk2
20:59 < MrElendig> hexnewbie: standard css instead of a custom mess where you had to replace the theme engine itself to change many things
21:02 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: Why don't you think 7z best suits my needs in this case, if I may ask?
21:03 < MrElendig> I haven't found any cases where it beats tar
21:03 < victorqueiroz> BlueProtoman: Why would you do such a thing?
21:03 < MrElendig> use whatever you like though
21:04 < MrElendig> I just said that I would use tar instead
21:05 < MrElendig> not that you should
21:05 < hexnewbie> Well, if there's a way to change the icon size, I haven't fount it yet, and it's a third hour of brute forcing the ~/.config/gtk-3.0/css.css
21:05 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: Ah, okay, just clarifying.  Not a problem, then.
21:05 < hexnewbie> I'm on toolbar image { width: 16px; } now - it says invalid property
21:06 < MrElendig> it's up to the app to set the icon size really
21:06 < BlueProtoman> victorqueiroz: To detect Russian bots or trolls trying to screw with America's elections again
21:07 < hexnewbie> I've also wasted 4 hours to figure out how to reduce the size of the text entries - entry { padding: ... } wasn't it, I didn't find out what it was, but the size got reduced. On one GTK+3 version, but the properties aren't supported on another one,.
21:07 < hexnewbie> Well, so not customisable at all.
21:08 < jim> MrElendig, maybe (not sure) it would be helpful for BlueProtoman to know what has your preference lean in the opposite direction of 7z, what are some of the things you don't like about it?
21:08 < hexnewbie> Time to black list all GTK applications, I guess
21:08 < ayecee> nuke it from orbit
21:08 < ayecee> it's the only way to be sure
21:08 < BlueProtoman> jim, MrElendig: Yeah, that's what I'm really getting at.  If you have a real preference, I'm curious.  If you just like it because it's familiar and you know how to use it, that's fine too.
21:09 < nekoexmachina> hexnewbie on the path to enlightenment, now only thing left is ditch tcl/tk, qt, xcb, whatever else is there and finally, uninstall xorg
21:09 < hexnewbie> GTK 3 programs are all unusable anyway, whole vertical space is taken up by toolbars. so you don't have any screen left for anything. For 12 hour of playing with gtk.css I managed to cut 10 pixels off the tabs. And that's it. Toolbars still enormous
21:09 < revel> nekoexmachina: But Enlightenment depends on Xorg :<
21:09 < MrElendig> more readily available, better support in libs/apps etc
21:10 < nekoexmachina> revel: there was some talk about porting efl to framebuffer backend though
21:10 < revel> Ew.
21:10 < nekoexmachina> like 3 years ago
21:10 < bls> hehe, efl is a joke
21:11 < BlueProtoman> MrElendig: I can see that.  Makes sense.  Though in my case, since I'm writing bash scripts the only compatibility I need is with stdin and stdout
21:11 < darkmeson> hexnewbie: you might to set the icon sizing options in a gtk3-based wm and see how they do it
21:11 < lnnb> bls: how is it a joke?
21:11 < hexnewbie> EFL was very nice to program with using Python. Well, Elementary at least, the rest of the EFL seemed very confusing.
21:11 < darkmeson> THEN condemn if it turns out to be entirely hardcoded
21:11 < bls> lnnb: https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/15001/enlightened
21:12 < sklv> hi, i just posted this, but i have a lvm block with ext4 on that i can mount fine but when i put it in fstab and mount the fstab partition i get ' wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/mapper/vg1-ldef, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.'
21:12 < hexnewbie> Some incompatibilities out there (e.g. EFL breaks Python's ability to fire up processes without workarounds), but other than that, I'd program for Englightenment again. Especially after being disillusioned with Qt and GTK+.
21:13 < sklv> this is my fstab entry ' wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/mapper/vg1-ldef, missing codepage or helper program, or other error.' - any ideas?
21:13 < Cmaj6> just wanted to say: i FKN love linux!
21:13 < nekoexmachina> the only good thing i could ve said about ele was that ele supported hidpi much earlier then even gnome did
21:13 < nekoexmachina> and kde still doesn't support it
21:13 < MrElendig> time to write a new gui library
21:13 < Cmaj6> it really is my baby :)
21:13 < jim> sklv, ok, could you show the command you used to mount it by hand?
21:13 < sklv> sorry '/dev/vg1/ldef /media/raid ext4 rw,relatime,date=ordered 0 0' -< fstab entry
21:14 < nekoexmachina> so for hidpi there are 3 options: gnome (piece of crap but really the best one if you want gui), enlightenment (at cost of having NOTHING that you want from DE) or xmonadish thing with console-only apps
21:14 < sklv> mount /dev/vg1/ldef /media/raid
21:14 < darkmeson> tbh I've had far more problems over the years getting (more like forcing) QT to theme properly than I ever have with GTK
21:14 < jim> ok, is it mounted now?
21:14 < sklv> no
21:14 < sklv> i unmounted it
21:14 < sklv> before i ran mount /media/raid to test fstab
21:15 < revel> Speaking of GTK dev... Quite a few applications I have seem to ignore the "Couldn't register with accessibility bus: Did not receive a reply." warning. Is leaving mine in a similar way considered "okay"?
21:15 < jim> ok, could you mount it, then do: mount 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999 # to pastebin the output of mount
21:16 < hexnewbie> revel: Just had to fight with this today. Catastrophic Qt bugs forced me to disable the accessibility bus. Now, all GTK+3 programs take 3 minutes to start. GNOME Terminal doesn't start at all. So apparently ignoring the accessibility bus as a user is not OK
21:16 < MrElendig> revel: the accessability stuff is optional
21:16 < sklv> jim: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/pf2zfQrVS6NtDnRAmYgC/
21:17 < MrElendig> hexnewbie: I don't have it and it doesn't start any slower
21:17 < MrElendig> something is broken at your end
21:17 < revel> MrElendig: Yeah, but it likes to print a warning about it regardless at gtk_main() >_>
21:17 < bls> I disable dbus and don't have any issues with gtk or qt
21:17 < sklv> i also ran 'mount --verbose /media/raid' but it didn't provide any additional output
21:17 < rascul> revel could this be related? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at-spi2-core/+bug/1193236 also see comment #15
21:18 < hexnewbie> MrElendig: Well, after I used NO_AT_BRIDGE=1 I no longer wait 3 minutes. (GNOME Terminal still times out, though)
21:19 < jim> sklv, looking at that output, I'm having trouble finding the mount
21:19 < sklv> because it's mounted, surely?
21:19 < revel> rascul: Well, I'm guessing they actually use the accessibility bus and whatnot, I just have something lightweight (and also can't figure out how to use it in the first place <_<)
21:19 < sklv> to be clear, i just created this, i haven't rebooted since
21:19 < nekoexmachina> bls: thanks for link, interesting read.
21:19 < jim> ok,
21:20 < jim> I notice some nvme devices... what are those doing?
21:20 < revel> I should really try looking at more code samples since just the documentation didn't seem very informative.
21:20 < sklv> that's my root filesystem
21:20 < sklv> the thing i'm trying to mount is ext4 on lvm on raid5
21:20 < bls> nekoexmachina: it was disappointing, because the project was always doing interesting things in a super efficient eyecandy/demoscene kind of way
21:20 < jim> what's the volume group name?
21:20 < lnnb> bls sounds like dudeman hates C in general
21:21 < sklv> vg1. this is mount output with the filesystem manually mounted https://paste.pound-python.org/show/FAmXINX8nRdvZnn75ZwX/
21:21 < bls> yeah, and there's plenty to hate, but don't try to turn C into something it's not, like VB
21:21 < lnnb> though the bit about "key names" does sound f'd up
21:21 < MrElendig> someone should write a new toolkit in rust
21:22 < jim> sklv, ok, that looks good... and it's an ext4 vol
21:23 < darkmeson> C just lets people shoot themselves in the foot if they wish, which goes against today's prevalent politics I guess
21:23 < hexnewbie> Everything should just be rewritten as web extensions, and shipped with a minimal version of Firefox. Until Firefox removes those.
21:23 < jim> that's clear from the output to mount
21:24 < rascul> hexnewbie s/firefox/chrome/ and call it electron
21:24 < jim> sklv, could you do: vgdisplay vg1 | nc termbin.com 9999
21:24 < rascul> firefox had some things in the past that were similar to what electron is today but they never took off, before their time i guess
21:25 < darkmeson> hexnewbie: sadly, it's looking like webkit and blink are the go-to solutions for that atm
21:25 < sklv> jim: https://paste.pound-python.org/show/CC9fIL9UjrPxqNyfeppn/
21:25 < revel> #define GDK_SELECTION_CLIPBOARD         _GDK_MAKE_ATOM (69)
21:25 < hexnewbie> rascul: Well, you mean XUL programs? I presently use at least like one (Kiwix). And Firefox *was* one of them, IIRC. (Though the Mozilla APIs generally confuse me)
21:25 < revel> There's no 68 or 70 :|
21:25 < sklv> jim that's wrong for some reason 1 sec
21:25 < revel> Mature.
21:26 < sklv> oh wait nvm i got the links mixed up
21:26 < sklv> it's right
21:26 < rascul> hexnewbie https://wiki.mozilla.org/Prism
21:26  * darkmeson is still saddened by prism's untimely demise
21:27 < darkmeson> although more by the fact that nothing ever totally filled the vacuum
21:28 < jim> sec
21:28 < hexnewbie> rascul: Those is for genuine web applications. I was thinking more of local UIs. There were things like FTP clients (possibly supporting SSH too) running as extensions. Or the pocket Wikipedia browser which shipped its own XULRunner, without running as its own extension.
21:28 < darkmeson> completely separate processes running as different profiles is still the only way to ensure a decent level of isolation even today
21:29 < rascul> darkmeson but docker!
21:30 < balletjebal> lo guys, whats a good html editor on linux ?
21:30 < rascul> nano
21:30 < jim> nano
21:30 < balletjebal> thx
21:30 < Zharf> vim
21:30 < nekoexmachina> on discussion a bit earlier, i cant stop puking at being forced to use new skype version, which is so awful that it cant even recieve fucking messages properly unless restarted
21:30 < jim> has no features whatsoever, just a text editor
21:30 < AE-35> vim
21:30 < hexnewbie> balletjebal: Bluefish I've been trying lately. Doesn't rise to the level of Quanta (now defunct), and the toolbar icons are gigantic, but it's fine. :)
21:30 < rascul> nano is probably not what you're looking for, but if you list some requirements, there are plenty that could be suggested
21:31 < nekoexmachina> its not really that its cause of electron which its built upon, but really, that engine just adds over9k hatepoints
21:31 < rascul> jim nano has plenty of features, to include syntax highlighting, color themes, undo, and multiple buffers
21:31 < jim> also, I request you spell out thx as thanks going forward... it helps new english speakers (or those who are struggling)
21:31 < balletjebal> hexnewbie, k ill have a look at it thx
21:31 < ayecee> idk my bff jill
21:32 < rascul> balletjebal if you prefer a gui editor, you might look at visual studio code
21:32 < jim> kill jill?
21:32 < AE-35> balletjebal: %s/thx/thanks/
21:32 < ayecee> bill gets his revenge
21:33 < balletjebal> ^^
21:33 < jim> still, bill will fill a grill with jill's stills
21:34 < rascul> hexnewbie i had apparently misunderstood what you were saying about the browser stuff earlier
21:34 < darkmeson> rascul:docker does NOTHING to protect sites from each other in the same browser :P
21:34 < jim> rascul, hmm, never noticed
21:35 < sklv> i fixed my issue by setting the options to 'defaults' in /etc/fstab instead of specifying them manually
21:35 < rascul> darkmeson clearly you just need more docker
21:35 < ayecee> i've got a fever
21:35 < ayecee> and the only cure is MORE DOCKER
21:35  * darkmeson seems to recall eclipse not being totally terrible for html either
21:35 < ayecee> yeah, eclipse is not totally terrible for a lot of things
21:36 < bls> heh, eclipse vs an electron based editor...who can eat more RAM!?!?
21:36 < rascul> electron makes me sad :(
21:36 < darkmeson> that's the perfect setup for a meme, but I'm too lazy atm
21:36 < jim> balletjebal, I'll request you avoid the abbreviations, so that everyone can understand you (or at least potentially so)
21:36 < hexnewbie> bls: You run both at the same time.
21:36 < rascul> electron a good scapegoat for why i'm drinking, i guess
21:37 < ayecee> i drink to forget i have a drinking problem
21:37 < rascul> i'll keep that one in mind for when the electron one runs out
21:37  * bls write a java webkit binding for displaying electron apps inside java apps
21:37 < darkmeson> tbh, the only thing I ever had trouble with eclipse on were files being modified over nfs, and it was my fault for not making it save more frequently
21:37 < jim> there's not a problem... you drink. you get drunk, you fall down... no problem!
21:38 < ayecee> just one problem - two hands, one mouth
21:38 < rascul> i've got no problem drinking
21:38 < nchambers> its the morning after where i have a problem
21:39 < rascul> wait until afternoon to wake up
21:39 < rascul> problem solved
21:39 < nchambers> :c
21:39 < nchambers> can't, i've got work in the morning
21:39 < darkmeson> bls: what? no gratuitous use of nodejs?
21:39 < rascul> so the real problem is work
21:39 < ayecee> this guy troubleshoots
21:40  * darkmeson thought all the cool kids were using nodejs for everything today
21:40 < bls> electron *is* nodejs
21:40 < nchambers> rascul: lol
21:40 < bls> it's pretty much chrome's webkit + nodejs
21:40 < jim> sklv, could you run: ls -l /dev/vg1 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
21:41 < ayecee> the great thing about nodejs is that it moves so quickly. the problem with nodejs is that it moves so quickly.
21:41 < sklv> jim: i've fixed my issue
21:41 < sklv> i put defaults in fstab and it worked
21:41 < sklv> ty for your help
21:41  * bls images electron applications being written that are nothing more than a mouse simulator clicking the refresh button at 60Hz
21:41 < bls> imagines
21:41 < jim> oh, yeah, it syntatically needs something there
21:42 < jim> welcome (and please expand ty going forward)
21:42 < ayecee> your welcome
21:42 < Penguin> ayecee: you're
21:42 < ayecee> nice
21:42 < rascul> you're nice
21:43 < hexnewbie> What about their welcome?
21:43 < ayecee> that's what my mom says
21:43 < jim> your welcome's head is in a comotion....
21:43 < Penguin> jim: you're
21:44 < jim> Penguin, nope, your was correct there :)
21:44 < ayecee> bot don't care
21:44 < rascul> your welcome
21:44 < Penguin> rascul: you're
21:44 < rascul> i think Penguin is a cyborg
21:44 < Psi-Jack> Uh oh, Penguin's back at it again.
21:45 < bls> Pengiun's script is annoying
21:45 < Psi-Jack> bls: It's not actually a script.
21:45 < ayecee> so what, he's typing it?
21:45 < Psi-Jack> Yes.
21:45 < Psi-Jack> Every single time.
21:45 < handturkey> typing what
21:46 < ayecee> doesn't sound correct, but i don't know enough about penguins to argue
21:46 < dimm> https://paste.linux.community/view/bcfa759b  why it can return "Permission denied"?
21:46 < Psi-Jack> Penguin: Welcome back. Where you been?
21:46 < lnnb> idk sounds a bit ridiculous to spend so much time and effort trying to "correct" people in an online chatroom
21:46 < ayecee> dimm: what returns that
21:46 < bls> handturkey: his only contribution to this channel is to correct contraction related grammar mistakes
21:46 < handturkey> or any other situation ever
21:46 < handturkey> in history
21:46 < dimm> ayecee: it return permission denied error
21:47 < handturkey> who
21:47 < ayecee> dimm: what returns permission denied error
21:47 < handturkey> I'll go to his house and feed him glass
21:47 < rascul> dimm is . in your $PATH?
21:47 < handturkey> and garbage
21:47 < ayecee> dimm: also, what should it do instead
21:47 < dimm> my $PATH "/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/home/oracle/.local/bin:/home/oracle/bin"
21:48 < handturkey> who is it
21:48 < dimm> ayecee: i just want understand what it must do =/
21:48 < handturkey> i'll kill this person
21:48 < rascul> dimm how are you executing this?
21:48 < ayecee> dimm: help us understand what you're doing
21:48 < dimm> rascul: it is part of some installer, also i trying to run it from cli and have the same error
21:48 < Penguin> Sounds like a threat.  I'm in fear for my life and will defend myself accordingly now.
21:48 < ayecee> let's see the full error message.
21:48 < Penguin> Just saying.
21:49 < ayecee> Penguin: well good
21:49 < rascul> it just prints whatever is passed to it as arguments then tries to run it
21:49  * darkmeson doesn't electron
21:49 < dimm> ayecee: https://paste.linux.community/view/00e74528
21:49 < handturkey> you can only defend yourself as long as the attack is ongoing
21:49 < dimm> ayecee: my be trying strace on it?
21:49 < ayecee> dimm: the permissions are wrong on the file.
21:49 < handturkey> so while i'm feeding you garbage you can try to stop it
21:49 < dimm> ayecee: -rwxr-xr-x. 1 oracle oinstall 153 Nov  7  1997 /u01/app/oracle/product/12.2.0/dbhome_1/bin/echodo
21:50 < ayecee> also, there's no shebang in the script
21:50 < ayecee> normally a shell script would start with #!/bin/sh or similar
21:50 < rascul> check the acl
21:51 < mgolisch> is the partition mounted noexec?
21:52  * darkmeson doesn't electron
21:52 < dimm> mgolisch: yes =)
21:52 < rascul> darkmeson you said that already
21:52 < dimm> mgolisch: /dev/mapper/vg_oracle-lv_system on /u01 type ext4 (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,seclabel,data=ordered,user)
21:52  * revel does positron
21:52 < mgolisch> thats probably why
21:52 < ayecee> kinky
21:53  * dimm went to read about noexec
21:53 < mgolisch> it basicaly means nothing on it can be executed
21:54 < darkmeson> rascul: thanks for confirming both got through, because the first didn't echo locally
21:55  * dimm remount
21:55 < darkmeson> the Matrix bridge ignores random people for short periods of time for unknown reasons, but that's the first it's ignored me, myself
21:56 < darkmeson> I'm not even sure how that's possible
21:56 < ayecee> life, uh, finds a way
21:56 < dimm> thanks a lot guyz for help, it is very matter now for me
21:57 < darkmeson> are you saying there are ghosts in the machines? I guess I better call an exorcist
21:58 < ayecee> i'm saying it may have more neurons than you XD
21:58 < ayecee> not really, but it sounded funny in my head
21:59 < darkmeson> but first I think I'll install flatpak and see a guy about a fractal. this riot's killing me!
22:01 < darkmeson> there are more neurons in even a simple human brain than there are devices on the internet, so not bloody likely :P
22:01 < dimm> mgolisch: error gone after change noexec to exec
22:03 < chrisdbarnett> q
22:04 < ayecee> 2legit2q
22:06 < nekoexmachina> I have a hardware question about which I've no idea. I want to upgrade my secondary storage drive in my laptop; is there any reason not to use SSD for that (except for ssd price per gb)?
22:07 < ayecee> no, that's pretty much it
22:07 < nekoexmachina> I've heard something about writes limit on ssds but it was few years ago and im caveman in most things regarding hardware
22:07 < darkmeson> these flatpaks are HUGE
22:07 < ayecee> write limits aren't a realistic concern for modern drives.
22:07 < darkmeson> reminds me of PCBSD's ill-fated .pbis
22:08 < ayecee> peanut butter something something
22:08 < bls> nekoexmachina: sounds like something for ##hardware
22:08 < darkmeson> nekoexmachina: raw storage capacity is all I can think of
22:08 < nekoexmachina> bls: well there might be something linux-specific towards ssd usage :)
22:08 < bls> not really, no
22:09 < compdoc> nekoexmachina, an ssd makes the system more shock-proof
22:09 < compdoc> they last years
22:09 < darkmeson> modern SSDs all support wearlevelling and moden linux stacks TRIM everywhere, so everything else should be mostly moot
22:09 < bls> I eventually just stopped babying SSDs and still haven't had one fail
22:10 < ayecee> i also share this anecdotal experience
22:10 < bls> time to extrapolate
22:10 < ayecee> tbh i haven't ever had a failure that i could attribute to write failure
22:10 < compdoc> *they last years if youre lucky. like hdds, they can die, but your odds of it not dying are better
22:11 < darkmeson> you can also fstrim manually any time you want
22:11 < ayecee> to wear-limited write failure
22:11 < nekoexmachina> my only long-lasting experience in storage was seagate barracuda hdd, bought in 1998, which still lives.:)
22:11 < searedvandal> yeah, I haven't had one failure and my ssds are older models. never done anything special with fstrim and stuff
22:11 < nekoexmachina> thanks for input.
22:11 < ayecee> i've seen one failure on an ssd, but it was weird - the drive would stop responding if you tried to read a particular 4k sector.
22:11 < ayecee> all the rest was recoverable
22:13 < lnnb> darkmeson: hmmm set one as swap on a system with 128MB ram, should be a good workout for the drive
22:14 < darkmeson> the ZoL people do worse than that
22:14 < bls> no more or less than your typical windows system that abuses the crap out of its pagefile
22:14 < darkmeson> they use them for ZIL/SLOG devices
22:14 < bls> never seen a file so meek and downtrodden
22:15 < darkmeson> ditto for the bcache people
22:15 < koala_man> ayecee: what was required to get it going again so you could read more?
22:15  * darkmeson has yet to hear complaints from them about untimely device deaths
22:16 < ayecee> koala_man: read it up to the point that it stopped reading, reboot, then read it backwards from the end until it stopped
22:16 < ayecee> with ddrescue ofc
22:16 < koala_man> ayecee: good thing it was only 1 sector and not 100+, that would have been extremely frustrating
22:16 < darkmeson> In fact, I think they get retired due to relatively low capacity more than anything
22:17 < nekoexmachina> darkmeson: ZoL aka zfs on linux?
22:17 < lnnb> how can you be sure they aren't being paid by ${big_ssd} to make such claims, we have to verify their results
22:17 < nekoexmachina> ..did they get it performing nice finally? it was awful when i last tried it (many years ago though)
22:18 < ayecee> seems to work fine
22:32 < Happyhobo> Hello
22:35 < searedvandal> hi
22:39 < Dagmar> ayecee: That's _highly_ unusual
22:40 < Dagmar> That sector must have been _incredibly_ screwed up
22:41 < Dagmar> Pffft.  Nevermind.  It was probably seeing an ECC check fail and behaving like any spinny disk would
22:41 < Dagmar> Dunno why I thought SSDs would handle that case differently
22:42 < Dagmar> No drive should ever just _stop_ responding entirely if there's a read failure.  That should be considered a firmware defect
22:42 < Dagmar> (Note: I have a spinny disk doing that in my desktop right now eight hours into a fourteen hour freakin' self-test)
22:42 < ayecee> wouldn't be the first laptop drive to do that
22:42 < bitloss> ALL: Trying to run Apache Spark on Arch Linux. I installed it from AUR, but when I run 'spark-shell' I get an error like 'https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42307471/spark-without-hadoop-failed-to-launch', except I installed Hadoop unlike the OP. Any tips? '/usr/lib/jvm/default/bin' is in my $PATH by the way.
22:43 < Dagmar> Imma reach through the phone and strangle someone at the manuf if they try and tell me the SMART test has to _complete_ before they can RMA it
22:43 < ayecee> tler is a thing for a reason
22:43 < bls> bitloss: might want to ask in the arch channel, although you'll probably get yelled at for using the AUR
22:44 < bitloss> bls: i get yelled at for using a computer. ill try though.
22:44 < ayecee> have you tried, say, not using a computer?
22:44 < kubast2> Hi I installed opensuse today ,and I can only boot using the bootable medium. Install medium detects that there is something installed ,and so I can boot with it. UEFI entries don't seem to be damaged and efibootmgr -v showcases boot entry for grub64.efi
22:44 < Dagmar> bitloss: Are you gettting the *exact* same error?
22:44 < bls> bitloss: but a quick and dirty guess would be a class path and/or environment variable error
22:45 < bls> arch likes to shuffle language related things around into odd locations
22:45 < bitloss> ayecee: I did a quick search on google about how to not use a computer.
22:45 < Dagmar> The first responder on that thread points out that if the thing was built without Hadoop present you have to set an additional envvar
22:46 < domhnall> So much for trying Fedora, live versions dont pick up my NIC for wireless. Was worth a shot.
22:47 < bitloss> Dagmar: though I do have Hadoop, I will try anyways. I didn;t understand the one responding until you replied.
22:49 < nekoexmachina> kubast2: hey, does your UEFI firmware shows the boot option?
22:49 < nekoexmachina> because I've been there with other distro, efibootmgr shows boot entry but uefi firmware doesnt
22:49 < domhnall> nekoexmachina: nice nick...
22:50 < nekoexmachina> domhnall: i have nothing to do with anime for almost 10 years already, but nickname I like yea :P
22:50 < kubast2> nekoexmachina: well my uefi firmware doesn't show the boot entry even if it recognises the boot entry as legit
22:50 < domhnall> nekoexmachina: I know nothing of the anime, its the ex-machina part im familar with.
22:50 < kubast2> in it's settings or f8
22:51 < nekoexmachina> kurkale6ka: try to add it by-hand if it doesn't show the boot entry in F8
22:51 < kubast2> nekoexmachina: the only time I got it to work was with uefishell via the arch linux iso but I don't have that rn
22:51 < nekoexmachina> domhnall: oh, that part I still am very fond of. :P
22:51 < nekoexmachina> kubast2: why through iso when you can *usually* add it by hand in uefi configuration menu?
22:52 < nekoexmachina> its a bit fucked up usually so you have to know path and you have to use weird inverted slashes windows-style for path but you still can.. *usually*
22:52 < ayecee> mind the language please
22:52 < nekoexmachina> its a bit fubar works or is offlimits too?
22:52 < kubast2> nekoexmachina: Can you explain? It's in the efibootmgr ,I can actually try adding it again via efibootmgr or I could download arch iso and boot efi shell and set it there
22:53 < ayecee> nekoexmachina: still emotional language that conveys little meaning
22:53 < nekoexmachina> kubast2: no, not through efibootmgr
22:53 < nekoexmachina> when you boot your machine you can press some button to open uefi interface, like bios in old days
22:53 < nekoexmachina> button depends on vendor
22:53 < nekoexmachina> there you usually should be able to add boot option on boot screen
22:53 < revel> I love it when people tell you exactly "hit F12" :D
22:54 < nekoexmachina> if you cant probably you cant because you have secureboot or some other *mumble* thing enabled, disable that and try again :)
22:54 < kubast2> So there is some uefi shell hidden? or you mean I should just go to bios; secureboot disabled
22:54 < kubast2> I don't have that setting on my laptops bios
22:54 < nekoexmachina> no "add boot option" in your laptop? which vendor is that?
22:55 < kubast2> acer
22:55 < nekoexmachina> whic vendor's laptop is that
22:55 < kubast2> Hydro2O some weird bios name like that
22:55 < revel> Jade, you mean?
22:55 < kubast2> it has an advanced menu but I couldn't bring it up last time I checked
22:55 < kubast2> like fn+tab 3 times simulteniuslly
22:56 < kubast2> nekoexmachina: Nope only entries made by uefi shell work for me
22:56 < nekoexmachina> kubast2: sorry but cant help you, haven't seen acer in very long time. if they don't have that in their uefi interface, thanks for headsup, 1 more reason to avoid that vendor :)
22:58 < revel> I just use Efibootmgr ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
22:59 < kubast2> revel: yeah doesn't work for my laptop
22:59 < kubast2> tried the efi stub ealier with arch
22:59 < revel> Works on my machine™
22:59 < kubast2> so I know it doesn't work for me tm
22:59 < kubast2> only the shell thingy works
22:59 < revel> Did you not apply the kernel CMDline stuff or something?
22:59 < kubast2> I did
22:59 < nekoexmachina> revel: it just doesn't add boot option sometimes
23:00 < kubast2> it listed the kernel cmdline just fine on arch
23:00 < kubast2> just that it had dots
23:00 < nekoexmachina> it does but then according to uefi it doesn't. I own 2 laptops like that: asus one and clevo one.
23:00 < revel> Guess I have a good one™ then.
23:00 < nekoexmachina> sell it and go buy a bad one
23:00 < nekoexmachina> obviously, dug
23:00 < nekoexmachina> duh *
23:00 < revel> kubast2: Those dots are there since UEFI uses UTF-16/UCS-2/something that's got 16-bit characters rather than 8-bit ones.
23:01 < revel> Simple ASCII is just simple ASCII followed by NUL
23:03 < kubast2> guess I will just boot tomorrow into uefi shell
23:03 < kubast2> ah right
23:03 < kubast2> bootorder
23:04 < kubast2> I forgot about that
23:04 < kubast2> Either it only cares about 200X only
23:04 < kubast2> and the 000X are used as reference only
23:05 < kubast2> BootOrder: 0000,2001,2002,2003 ok
23:05 < kubast2> wish me luck
23:05 < kubast2> sudo reboot
23:11 < BenderRodriguez> Question on the GPL
23:11 < ayecee> thanks for the warning!
23:11 < BenderRodriguez> if someone takes GPLd code and uses it to produce a product that's for sale
23:11 < ayecee> oh no
23:11 < BenderRodriguez> do they have to release their propritetary code as well?
23:11 < ayecee> it's one of those questions
23:11 < ayecee> spread out across several lines
23:11 < nchambers> BenderRodriguez: you'd be safer to ask a lawyer
23:12 < nchambers> also, please don't abuse your enter key
23:12 < BenderRodriguez> literally three lines, but ok
23:12 < ayecee> literally could have been one.
23:12 < nchambers> ^
23:13 < searedvandal> yeah, that sounds like a lawyer question.
23:13 < ayecee> if you take gpl code and link it in with your application, your license must be gpl compatible.
23:13 < veridiam> could be legal under tivoization
23:13 < ayecee> not so much so with lgpl code.
23:13 < BenderRodriguez> hmm I see
23:13 < ayecee> many libraries are under lgpl rather than gpl.
23:13 < BenderRodriguez> well just checking, I have no issues with it myself
23:14 < ayecee> good, because i am not a laywer, and this is not legal advice
23:14 < ayecee> :D
23:15 < BenderRodriguez> it's okay -- I was reading into the state of open source license enforceability and the climate is dismal
23:15 < BenderRodriguez> not a lot of landmark cases to really establish legitimacy yet
23:15 < ayecee> kind of good. means that people were able to resolve their concerns without the courts.
23:16 < ayecee> when something goes to court, all parties lose.
23:18 < nekoseam> hello :)
23:18 < BenderRodriguez> nekoseam: hello :)
23:20 < phogg> BenderRodriguez: it's telling that a lot of people see value in open source and there has not been a significant case where a ruling came out that invalidated a license. If it were possible to sue and get something valuable from it don't you think we'd have seen some wins by now?
23:20 < phogg> sometimes the lack of smoke indicates a lack of fire
23:23 < ayecee> deep
23:27 < rascul> or a very efficient fire
23:30 < BenderRodriguez> well let's be real for a moment
23:31 < BenderRodriguez> what chance does a small time library developer have against some fortune 100 company that can completely ensnare the process with legal technicalities
23:31 < phogg> BenderRodriguez: None. Doesn't matter whether your license is GPL or something proprietary.
23:31 < BenderRodriguez> that is to say, if you have a good legal team, you can combat the GPL -- and I have yet to see a large company get burned by GPL violation as of yet
23:31 < BenderRodriguez> correct me if I'm mistaken
23:32 < phogg> BenderRodriguez: Most owners of interesting GPL code are far more interested in compliance than license revocation. There have been a number of places where mere complaint has lead to compliance.
23:32 < prence> ghostscript?
23:32 < prence> didn't they win a GPL suit?
23:33 < prence> https://qz.com/981029/a-federal-court-has-ruled-that-an-open-source-license-is-an-enforceable-contract/
23:33 < prence> I was only half paying attention to the conversation but I remember this case and I think it applies
23:34 < phogg> prence: a bit, yes. It only covers a portion of the license, though.
23:34 < prence> ah
23:36 < phogg> I think that by now for GPLv2 there have been enough decisions that the outcome of a suit is no longer in doubt.
23:36 < Sitri> Except Ghostscript is under the GNU Affero GPL...
23:37 < Sitri> Which is slightly different
23:38 < rascul> busybox won some monies in a case, and fsf settled for some monies in another
23:38 < bls> there's also the guy that made a couple line changes in a kernel file and now goes around europe sueing for infringment
23:39 < prence> do you remember the name of anyone involved in those cases? that'd be interesting to read
23:39 < phogg> Sitri: the principle established by the ghostscript AGPL case applies equally to all current forms of the GPL: an implicit, enforceable contract can be created by a license.
23:40 < bls> prence: Patrick McHardy
23:40 < prence> phogg: that's how I interpreted it too but wasn't sure enough to comment
23:40 < rascul> prence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox#GPL_lawsuits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Foundation,_Inc._v._Cisco_Systems,_Inc.
23:40 < prence> bls, thanks
23:40 < prence> ty
23:40 < prence> err dead link but I'll find it
23:40 < prence> thanks
23:40 < phogg> prence: You must be new here. I feel that survivors of the SCO years are de-facto experts on software licensing as it intersects with US law.
23:40 < rascul> neither of those links are dead
23:41 < prence> Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Free Software Foundation, Inc. v. Cisco Systems, Inc in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings.
23:41 < rascul> oh the . at the end didn't get put in the link i guess
23:41 < prence> phogg: I'm not, I just idle and generally ignore most software laws as it is heh
23:42 < prence> most of the lawsuits I'm familiar with when it comes to software involve sun or oracle
23:42 < rascul> "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_Foundation,_Inc._v._Cisco_Systems,_Inc."
23:42 < prence> rascul, I found it, thanks
23:42 < bls> https://opensource.com/article/17/8/patrick-mchardy-and-copyright-profiteering
23:43 < phogg> The out of court settlement on the Cisco case a typical outcome. Compliance is more important than cash or public shaming.
23:43 < phogg> s/case/case is/
23:43 < rascul> prence groklaw is good for reading about the legal type things
23:44 < rascul> the older ones, anyway
23:44 < prence> that's just the nature of people that write open source or GPL code tho isn't it? I was more involved in fbsd and openbsd which both were relatively untouched legally
23:44 < prence> yeah I'm checking those out now
23:46 < prence> this guy is an asshole heh
23:55 < Tostane> hello   Is this were I can ask question on linus mount that not mounting properly ?
23:56 < phogg> Tostane: sure
23:56 < degenerate> I'm trying to copy a very large file (290GB) using rsync.  When my connection drops i have to restart.  when i restart it takes a very very long time to resume.  I'm using: rsync --partial --progress --rsh=ssh is there a way to make it just immediately resume at the last byte where it stopped
23:56 < phogg> Tostane: you can asking anything any time, just fire away
23:58 < phogg> degenerate: man rsync and read the '--checksum' option documentation. I think that's related.
23:58 < bls> there's also the batch mode stuff, although not sure if it's meant to address this issue
23:59 < phogg> hmm, or maybe not. Seems that checksum lag only applies to after a transfer.
23:59 < Tostane> I reinstalled Linux      and now im trying to mount the drives into the new install   but 2 of the 11 drives   are mounting and the folders are showing up as unknown(application octet-stream)           if I open them as admin  then the folder are there  ?
23:59 < phogg> Tostane: the user IDs are probably not what you expect and non-root users do not have permissions
23:59 < MrElendig> degenerate: rdiff-backup or similar
--- Log closed Tue Jun 19 00:00:04 2018