--- Log opened Tue Jun 19 00:00:04 2018
00:00 < phogg> Tostane: were all of the files on those disks owned by a single user?
00:01 < mawk> degenerate, you forgot --append no ?
00:01 < Dexx1_> Hey guys. When I put in a sdcard into my sdcard reader, the drive doesn't show up. How can I get it working?
00:01 < guest32> hi
00:01 < phogg> yeah, I had just come to the same conclusion
00:02 < phogg> Dexx1_: check dmesg, it will have noticed the drive if anything did
00:02 < phogg> Dexx1_: or, rather: doesn't show up *where*?
00:03 < Tostane> Ill check the owner on the files
00:04 < useless-eater> hi guys,  I got a silly question probably,  but all of a sudden my computer does not allow me to mv a directory with content.  wth?! why?
00:04 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: what does dmesg say and what hardware is this?
00:04 < MrElendig> and the distro
00:04 < Tostane> I did try to use  gparted   and disks   utilities to mount the drives    I remade the uid        I tried mounting them in mnt and media   no matter how I did it they would not show on those 2 drives
00:04 < phogg> useless-eater: "does not allow" in what way?
00:05 < phogg> Tostane: if you can see the contents of the drives as root then the data is there.
00:05 < useless-eater> phogg: "Directory not empty"
00:05 < phogg> Tostane: Do you know how file ownership and permissions work on Unix filesystems?
00:06 < phogg> useless-eater: that should only happen if you try to rmdir a directory. Are you sure you do not have a bad alias like: alias mv=rmdir?
00:06 < Dexx1_> phogg: MrElendig this is my dmesg: https://pastebin.com/raw/UQWUdVds
00:06 < MrElendig> Tostane: which filesystem, and are these internal disks?
00:06 < useless-eater> seems like my mv command was lobotomized D:
00:06 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: please use a sane pastebin
00:06 < MrElendig> useless-eater: `type mv`
00:06 < useless-eater> mv is /bin/mv
00:07 < Dexx1_> MrElendig: like what?
00:07 < phogg> Dexx1_: try termbin, ptpb, sprunge
00:07 < phogg> paste.debian.net is also fine
00:07 < phogg> anything with a raw mode and not requiring JS
00:07 < MrElendig> ptpb, gist, bpaste
00:08 < MrElendig> phogg: and doesn't mangle what you post, and doesn't have malware installing ads etc etc
00:08 < phogg> MrElendig: indeed
00:08 < Tostane> the original system and this I use the same username   so the owner is same
00:08 < Tostane> only change I made was the password
00:08 < bls> same username does not mean the same uid
00:09 < MrElendig> Tostane: username means nothing, the uid is what matters
00:09 < Dexx1_> phogg: isn't this raw mode?? https://pastebin.com/raw/UQWUdVds
00:09 < MrElendig> the username is just for convenience for the stupid fleshbags between the keyboard and chair, the computer only cares about the uid/gid
00:09 < MrElendig> you can even have multiple users with the same uid, or a uid with no username
00:10 < bls> Dexx1_: pastebin.com is blacklisted in here
00:10 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: /msg phrik badpastebin
00:10 < Tostane> I did not use uid  for my drives
00:11 < Tostane> I put a volume label on each then mounted them with that lable
00:11 < bls> Tostane: yes you did. it's now POSIX filesystems work
00:11 < bls> s/now/how/
00:11 < balletjebal> gents ,on windows theres a key to copy paste text like ctrl c  or ctrl v does it work like the same on linux ?
00:11 < bls> balletjebal: depends on the application
00:11 < Dexx1_> phogg: ok, now I have a different problem. How do I install these pastebin programs? (like termbin ptpb sprunge etc) because sudo apt-get install doesn't work
00:12 < MrElendig> you don't
00:12 < koala_man> copypaste in X is complicated
00:12 < MrElendig> you just need curl
00:12 < bls> balletjebal: most people just use highlight-to-copy and middle-button-to-paste
00:12 < phogg> Dexx1_: dmesg | nc termbin.com 9999
00:12 < MrElendig> <command> 2>&1 | curl -F c=@- https://ptpb.pw
00:12 < MrElendig> curl -F c=@path/to/a/file https://ptpb.pw
00:12 < Dexx1_> phogg: MrElendig http://termbin.com/7ebi
00:12 < Dexx1_> ok, that's easy
00:12 < bls> balletjebal: some applications support Shift+Insert for paste
00:12 < MrElendig> ptpb also does images etc
00:13 < phogg> Tostane: the UIDs will still be in the filesystem from your previous install. If they do not match exactly you will have no permission to access the files, but root will be able to because root has all permissions.
00:13 < Dexx1_> (although, I see zero difference between that and my original paste)
00:13 < MrElendig> proper syntax highlighting etc
00:13 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: except that we can actually open it
00:13 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: and there isn't \r\n line endings
00:13 < phogg> Tostane: if you can find out the UID being used for the files and you know which user you *want* to be able to access the files I can help you automatically change the ownership.
00:13 < Dexx1_> ah
00:13 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: and no malware installing ads
00:13 < bls> and there's no chance of getting served malware with this link
00:13 < MrElendig> nor bitcoin mining
00:13 < balletjebal> loads of options there then :P
00:14 < MrElendig> no capcha
00:14 < phogg> Dexx1_: dmesg | curl -F c=@- https://ptpb.pw/ # to make MrElendig happier
00:14 < phogg> but I think not everybody has curl
00:14 < MrElendig> nice oops
00:14 < Tostane> I do a fstab   /dev/disk/by-label/vol1 /mnt/vol1 auto …….
00:14 < MrElendig> also, that is not the entire dmesg
00:14 < phogg> Tostane: it doesn't matter
00:14 < bls> Tostane: not relevant to your current problem
00:14 < Tostane> I
00:14 < phogg> Tostane: owner IDs are stored *in the filesystem*.
00:15 < phogg> Tostane: open up a terminal and run the 'stat' command on a file.
00:15 < Dexx1_> phogg: can you condense that command down to 'pastebin'? So I can dmesg | pastebin
00:15 < MrElendig> looks like you have some hardware issues with that machine
00:16 < MrElendig> of the kind that might warant some replacement
00:16 < Dexx1_> MrElendig: like what?
00:16 < Dexx1_> The sd card reader worked last week btw
00:16 < Tostane> if i open it from the gui and do a properties on a file   it says unreadable
00:17 < MrElendig> laptop?
00:17 < Dexx1_> yes
00:18 < MrElendig> built in card reader?
00:18 < Dexx1_> yes
00:19 < Tostane> in terminal if i try to open that drive it says permission denied
00:19 < MrElendig> post lspci
00:19 < bls> Tostane: do these things as root
00:19 < MrElendig> Tostane: which fs?
00:19 < MrElendig> Tostane: findmnt /wherever/you/mounted/it
00:19 < Dexx1_> MrElendig: http://termbin.com/r3db
00:20 < Dan39> dmesg...?
00:20 < Dexx1_> Dan39: talking to me?
00:20 < Dan39> nvm see above
00:20 < Tostane> im seeing some message    system-product-name-invalid-length-Id-Fiixed-up-to-11
00:20 < Dan39> found it :P
00:21 < Tostane> I changed to the server/media folder  the drive is in there
00:21 < MrElendig> hm so pci connected card reader
00:21 < Tostane> i did a stat on the drive itself and got that error
00:22 < phogg> Dexx1_: yes, but so can you. Just wrap it in a shell function
00:22 < Tostane> ill try doing a stat on a drive that works
00:22 < phogg> Dexx1_: or drop it into a shell script. If you don't know how this is a great time to learn. It's easy.
00:22 < MrElendig> a known buggy one too
00:22 < bls> stat is for getting information about files, it's not going to provide any useful information about the device entry
00:23 < Dan39> Dexx1_: what is up with all the traces and segfaults in dmesg?
00:23 < MrElendig> crappy intel wifi
00:23 < phogg> Tostane: the purpose of stat was so that you could find the numeric ID of the owner of a file. If you're running it against a device file you're not going to get anything useful.
00:23 < MrElendig> Dan39: lspci -vnn
00:24 < Tostane> ok   another possible problem in termial  is were im seeing that system product  name invalid entery length       could this Linux have not installed something correctly
00:24 < phogg> Tostane: where are you seeing that?
00:25 < bls> there's a definite chance something is screwed up, but right now it looks like you're chasing after ghosts instead of providing useful debug information
00:25 < MrElendig> er... Dexx1_
00:25 < Dexx1_> Dan39: I dunno, you are the expert here :P
00:26 < Tostane> it shows up in termial as soon as termal loads
00:27 < Tostane> I googled it but there is just questions from other people having same problem it seems to be from ubuntu os
00:27 < phogg> I chased a ghost once. Ate it, too. Scored 200 points.
00:27 < phogg> Or maybe it was just a dream.
00:27 < bls> prolly just had pacman fever
00:27 < phogg> Tostane: when you say "terminal" do you mean "virtual console"? Sounds like your syslog is dumping some kinds of errors there.
00:28 < Tostane> i think when it installed linus auto generates a computer name and the name is messed up
00:28 < MrElendig> linus did no such thing
00:29 < phogg> Tostane: First of all, no. It doesn't do that, and if it did nothing would be messed up.
00:29 < bls> and none of this is relevant to whether or not your UIDs are wrong
00:30 < phogg> Tostane: you should focus on one problem at a time
00:30 < Dexx1_> MrElendig: yeah?
00:31 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: post lspci -vnn
00:31 < MrElendig> or just the vid/pid from it,
00:31 < MrElendig> for the card reader
00:31 < Tostane> ok i found out it is the lnux host name   now im seeing how i change it
00:32 < Dexx1_> MrElendig: http://termbin.com/7neu
00:32 < phogg> Tostane: try the command 'hostname' for that
00:32 < bls> does that still work if systemd has taken control of the hostname?
00:33 < phogg> I neither know nor care.
00:33 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/717435
00:33 < Dagmar> It's always the host name
00:33 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: solution: buy some decent usb cardreader
00:35 < Dagmar> Apparently hostnamectl is the "new" tool for systemd for changing the host name
00:35 < Tostane> I changed the host file  and rebooted it now
00:35 < Dagmar> The /etc/hosts file?
00:36 < Dagmar> That's not really where the hostname is set, but whatevs
00:36 < MrElendig> https://bugs.launchpad.net/linux/+bug/790754 too
00:36 < Tostane> ok it did not change for some reason
00:36 < Dagmar> The machine will only act marginally psychotic if it's IP address doesn't resolve to the same hostname
00:36 < bls> this is turning into some fine performance art...
00:36 < MrElendig> seems quite troublesome
00:36 < Dagmar> Tostane: Because /etc/hosts is not the place to set the hostname
00:37 < Dagmar> Toastane: `hostnamectl set-hostname darkstar`
00:37 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: https://github.com/aur-archive/ricoh-e823-fix/blob/master/e823fix.wrapper  might work
00:37 < phogg> I thought even systemd still used /etc/hostname for the host name
00:37 < Dagmar> It *should* be
00:38 < MrElendig> it does
00:38 < phogg> they just pointlessly rewrote the tool you use to interact with it because mumble mumble nih muble progress mumble
00:38 < Dexx1_> MrElendig: any idea why it worked fine for the past year+?
00:38 < MrElendig> man 5 hostname
00:38 < Dagmar> I've yet to see any hipsters arguing there's something wrong with the way init handles the machine's own hostname
00:38 < Tostane> ok i changed the hostname file now
00:38 < MrElendig> Dexx1_: maybe related to all the kernel crashes?
00:38 < MrElendig> hardware going bad?
00:38 < veridiam> you'll have to file for a legal name change, it seems you live in an area where artificial life has power of attorney, you can't just change it's name
00:38 < phogg> by which I mean "The existing tool is completely broken. Doesn't work at all. Had to be replaced."
00:38 < MrElendig> #justubuntuthings
00:38 < Dagmar> heh
00:39  * phogg is just guessing based on the general trend
00:39 < Tostane> that fixed it   i changed both hosts  and hostname
00:39 < MrElendig> phogg: except that it is not pointless
00:39 < Dagmar> Again, that's not what /etc/hosts does, but whatevre
00:39 < phogg> Tostane: the hosts part will not matter. Very little software cares if it can reverse the name into an accurate IP
00:39 < Tostane> it got rid of the weird message in terminal   so im happy
00:40 < Dagmar> One generally doesn't even _need_ the host machine's name in /etc/hosts
00:40 < phogg> Tostane: To be clear the thing that fixed it was the *second* thing you did. The first one had as much effect as waving a dead chicken.
00:40 < phogg> Probably less.
00:40 < Dagmar> The only thing that really needs to be there is the localhost entry
00:40 < bls> that's consistent with this. complain about something, ignore help, do something completely unrelated
00:40 < Tostane> the host used to show up from my windows boxes  i am not sure they would like that long name
00:40 < phogg> Tostane: who cares what Windows likes?
00:40 < Dagmar> Good thing we don't have to care about what your windows machines think
00:41 < phogg> do what you WANT and drag them kicking and screaming into the 20th century
00:41 < Tostane> windows just for game
00:42 < Dagmar> The dead are easier to drag
00:43 < Psi-Jack> True statement ^^
00:43 < Tostane> this drive problem is frustrating im tempted to run and buy a 8 terabyte drive and copy the files off and format it
00:44 < MrElendig> do that, and use the drive for backups afterwards
00:44 < Dagmar> Good luck with that
00:44 < phogg> Tostane: I assure you that doing so is not necessary. Your drive is probably fine.
00:44 < MrElendig> those backups you should have set up years ago :p
00:44 < phogg> Real men don't use backups. They just upload their work to public ftp and let the rest of the world mirror it.
00:44 < Dagmar> I think I'm going to be sticking with the 3Gb size for awhile
00:44 < Dagmar> er 3Tb
00:45 < Dagmar> It's all fun and games until SMART takes 14+ hours to complete
00:45 < MrElendig> 4tb is generally the best price/performance/size/reliability
00:45 < Dagmar> _Fourteen bloody hours_
00:45 < MrElendig> though it is slowly creeping upwards
00:45 < phogg> 3T is about as big as god intended storage devices to get.
00:45 < phogg> just like 3 stories for buildings
00:46 < phogg> anything bigger is suspicious
00:46 < MrElendig> sidenote: the helium filled drives have turned out to be much more reliable than the naysayers predicted
00:47 < Dagmar> It was sound engineering
00:47 < Tostane> strange  i opened the /media/drive   as admin and changed the permission from root   to the server name      now i can see the files
00:47 < Dagmar> Those are some good drugs
00:48 < bls> heh, and the performance continues
00:49 < MrElendig> server name happens to be the same as your user name? :p
00:50 < phogg> MrElendig: Oh did they? I am pleased to hear it. Got stats on how much more?
00:50 < phogg> Tostane: that's all you ever had to do: change the owner of the files to one that exists on your system
00:51 < MrElendig> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-stats-for-q1-2018/
00:52 < Tostane> the drives that were working are set as root also        i wonder why it just did not like these 2 drives
00:52 < Psi-Jack> MrElendig: Nice.
00:52 < Psi-Jack> Ooh, they have HGST's up there. I've been wondering about those.
00:52 < bls> Tostane: some mysteries are best left to the universe
00:52 < Dagmar> Probably because they were formatted with ntfs or something equally insane
00:53 < bls> the more likely reason is that he had UID mismatches, but at least changing the drive's hostname fixed it :P
00:53 < MrElendig> the 12tb seagates are doing well
00:53 < Psi-Jack> They are.. Insanely well.
00:54 < Dagmar> HGST has been bringing their A-game
00:54 < MrElendig> still just a year old though
00:54 < phogg> a thousand blessings on backblaze
00:54 < Dagmar> Enough to make me shortlist them for spending of consulting money
00:54 < MrElendig> but some claimed they would leak in less than 6 months :p
00:55 < Tostane> i used ext4 on them       i read there is another file system that is better for systems that sleep a lot   that does not cache writes i wanted to try
00:55 < Psi-Jack> Seagate, in this, has been doing overall pretty dang good.
00:55 < Dagmar> MrElendig: They've been rocking it for ages, including when GOogle was publishing their drive failure stats
00:55 < MrElendig> the smaller seagate drives have had issues
00:55 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, the 4TB ones.
00:55 < Dagmar> Random Seagate models have had issues
00:55 < bls> doubts were valid given the history of the industry and their less than up-front marketing material
00:56 < Tostane> I was wanting to get some 12 segates the feedback on them is good that i found.
00:56 < Dagmar> ...because they didn't just burn everyone from Maxtor alive when the absorbed them
00:56 < Dagmar> ...or at least just give them a decent severance package
00:56 < MrElendig> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/helium-filled-hard-drive-failure-rates/
00:57 < MrElendig> going to be interesting to see how it developes over a couple of more years
00:57 < Dagmar> When you're buying another company that's failing, and there's no IP transfer happening, you have to wonder about the people who think it's a good idea to keep the staff who failed in the first place
00:57 < Dagmar> Like, sure, maybe once our name is on the building they'll magically stop sucking
00:57 < bls> those things are usually, but not always, down to the suits, not the engineers
00:58 < Dagmar> bls: Except all the MAxtor bufu was clearly dumb engineering
00:58 < Tostane> sadly i bought a lot of maxstor drives to see them all fail
00:59 < bls> maybe, I've just been in the situation of sitting on a bad product, reporting that it was a bad product, and getting overrulled and have it get shipped in the hopes it won't be *that* bad, or we'll do damage control later
01:00 < Tostane> i mostly run segate now   same drives for over 3 years   flawless        knock on wood       its time to replace them soon
01:00 < Dagmar> That line of Seagates that they tried to hide the fact that they were _eating their own p- and g-list_... All the firmware upgrade tools had Maxtor showing
01:00 < Dagmar> Clearly that was Maxtor engineering at work... designing drives that would overwrite their own sector maps with SMART logs
01:00 < phogg> I still have some maxtor drives that are working.
01:01 < Dagmar> The Seagate drives I had a customer actually decide to *change my parts list* for over $2 a drive... The ones that would not reliably initialize on a SATA 2 controller... Maxtor again
01:01 < phogg> I bought a lot of maxtor drives. Once you have the jump configuration for a brand memorized it's annoying to change
01:02 < Dagmar> Entertainingly, even the tool to upgrade the firmware to fix it that I was given (which was for IDE disks LOL) also said Maxtor
01:02 < Dagmar> Should have said "MAXTOR BRICKING TOOL"
01:02 < Dagmar> It said "IDE PATA" right there on the screen, I told the CS rep, they swore it was the right tool, and... bricked
01:02 < phogg> I sense a certain amount of hostility here. Maxtor kicked Dagmar's puppy something fierce.
01:03 < Dagmar> It was a completely wasted afternoon on hold with idiots
01:03 < MrElendig> worse, nuked his .pron
01:03 < Dagmar> Bricked both the damn drives and had to ship them back
01:03 < Dagmar> ...and they wouldn't even cross ship
01:03 < Tostane> back in the day maxstor ran low on drives and was shipping real bricks  instead before they went under
01:05 < Tostane> we got one of the first 40 gig maxstors  and had to replace a transistor on it right away
01:05 < Dagmar> They were even more amusing when they were using the name Quantum
01:05 < Dagmar> The Quantum Failball
01:05 < Tostane> oh that is scary name  quantum
01:06 < Dagmar> No one ever apparently thought to do any QA on the units, so _most_ of that line had bad cache RAM
01:06 < Dagmar> ...and that was the thing that was supposed to make the drive _faster_ than everyone else.
01:07 < Dagmar> If you bought them refurbbed where someone had probably already replaced that chip and tested them, they were great
01:07 < Tostane> when i close my store down  i had to hall a large bed pickup truck full of hard drive to the city dump
01:07 < Dagmar> Otherwise, they were just thin 5 inch drives which failed early with massive data corruption
01:07 < Johnjay>  why does anything in star trek work? Quantum.
01:07 < MrElendig> should go to recycle, not the dump
01:07 < phogg> Tostane: you wasted a great opportunity to experiment with thermite
01:08 < Dagmar> Or just some nerds who want a lot of magnets, and know where to take the chassis as scrap metal
01:08 < MrElendig> could build a giant hdd speaker wall
01:08 < Tostane> i wish i had them now   it be fun to tear them apart and sell to the makers
01:08 < MrElendig> or armor up your cubicle
01:09 < MrElendig> armour*
01:09 < phogg> armor is fine, says the USA
01:09 < Dagmar> I would be fine with some light armor in my cubicle
01:09 < MrElendig> hdds at 30° would offer good protection against nerf projectiles
01:09 < Dagmar> Actually I was thinking small caliber bullets
01:09 < Dagmar> They'll certainly stop a 22
01:10 < Dagmar> ...then again, a thick leather jacket can stop a 22
01:10 < MrElendig> tell that to all the kids that died at utøya
01:10 < phogg> they don't need to completely stop a round, just divert its trajectory away from lethal areas
01:10 < MrElendig> .22 is quite deadly
01:10 < Tostane> we used to tear the drive down and replace platters way back  in a make shift clean room    and do component replacement on the board.     that was in the 20 to 40 gig drive days
01:10 < phogg> MrElendig: they should have been wearing used hard disk armor
01:11 < Tostane> when a 40 gig drive costed 1500    lol
01:12 < Assimilater> this may be a stretch, I just don't know where else to turn because the nxp community isn't proving very helpful. I'm developing router software for my senior design, and I have an imx6ullevk I'm working on. It comes with a linux os but I'm trying to disable networking features on it so my software does all the networking
01:13 < phogg> Assimilater: it's hard to disable all of it and still have access to the hardware
01:13 < Cache_Money> When I created my id_rsa key I added a password. When I attempt to ssh into a server using my private key it always forces me to input my password. Is this because when I created it I used a password? If I created a new id_rsa key without a password would I be able to ssh without having to type my password every time?
01:13 < bls> Cache_Money: yes. yes.
01:13 < Assimilater> phogg: would I need a complete disable in order to prevent it from talking?
01:14 < bls> Cache_Money: or you can run ssh-agent or gpg-agent to cache the password for you
01:14 < Tostane> What is NXP
01:14 < Assimilater> nxp is a microcontroller manufacturer
01:14 < Cache_Money> bls: okay. I’ll create a new private key and not type a password this time
01:16 < Tostane> oh nxp is like arm
01:16 < Assimilater> kind of, they make arm stuff
01:22 < Cache_Money> bls: Here’s the start of my ssh config https://gist.github.com/Abundnce10/adbdcbb5d306981b7b623ad8ee802692  Doesn’t `UseKeychain yes` mean I wouldn’t have to type my password every time I try to ssh into a server?
01:24 < bls> Cache_Money: only if the keychain app is actually running, has the key added to it, and has had a valid password entered
01:25 < Cache_Money> bls: How do I test that?
01:25 < bls> and not sure what version of ssh you've got. don't see that option documented anywhere on my systems
01:25 < Tostane> Thanks for the ideas   this seems to have got me going again.    Im going to poke it with a stick a few times and see if any more bugs appear   I was using Linux mint 17.2 64 bit on it.   usualy it works pretty good.
01:25 < bls> Cache_Money: `pgrep -afl ssh-agent` `printenv | grep -i ssh`
01:25 < bls> also `ssh-add -l`
01:27 < Cache_Money> bls: okay. I’ll just re-create a new key and get it setup that way. Thanks for your help
02:00 < ansraliant> morning
02:05 < jim> ansraliant, hi
03:46 < johnc--> hi, i scheduled a posts on WordPress, but my site has no hits. so i try setting crontab from cpanel interface. after doing some google, i finally set to this. can anyone please tell me whether the syntax is correct or not?
03:46 < johnc-->  0 6 * * * wget -o /dev/null --timeout=120 http://mysite.com/wp-cron.php?doing_wp_cron=true >/dev/null 2>&1
03:46 < johnc--> once everyday at 6AM
03:47 < meingtsla> Surely WordPress has its own internal way of scheduling posts?
03:49 < meingtsla> That aside, you should fully qualify the path to wget. Do not assume that cron will have the same environment variables that you do.
03:51 < johnc--> meingtsla, i think the WordPress scheduled posts/cronjob activates only when a user visit a site.
03:53 < thatpythonguy> if I'm not using a login manager and I start X using startx, what is the 'correct' way to stop the x server?
03:54 < fryguy> thatpythonguy: close whatever process was the last to run in .xinitrc
03:54 < lnnb> sigterm?
03:55 < thatpythonguy> @fryguy, so basically, stop the WM
03:55 < meingtsla> johnc--: Ahh I see
03:55 < fryguy> thatpythonguy: usually, yes
03:55 < thatpythonguy> @lnnb I'm not familiar with that
03:55 < lnnb> i think its the default for kill command
03:55 < meingtsla> johnc--: So that would run once daily at 0600.
03:56 < johnc--> so, the syntax is correct? because i googled and modify as far as i can understand.
03:56 < lnnb> if killing wm takes down the server it's not set up right
03:56 < thatpythonguy> i was hoping there was a graceful way to stop x haha, oh well. if I did stop the WM, would the x server be 'closed'/inactive?
03:56 < lnnb> sigterm is graceful
03:57 < lnnb> well, it's supposed to be at least
03:57 < lnnb> sigkill is the nasty one
03:57 < thatpythonguy> @lnnb how do I invoke sigkill?
03:57 < thatpythonguy> oops meant sigterm
03:57 < meingtsla> johnc--: See my previous comment about fully qualifying the path to wget. Also, I might do -O instead of -o.
03:58 < lnnb> kill <process-id>
03:58 < thatpythonguy> does x have a process id tho? i mean can you just kill x like that
03:58 < lnnb> every process has an ID
03:59 < johnc--> meingtsla, i got disconnetecd maybe i miss it. is that zero or capital O
03:59 < thatpythonguy> what about ctrl-alt-backspace?
03:59 < lnnb> might or might not work
03:59 < thatpythonguy> depeding on distro I guess?
03:59 < meingtsla> johnc--: 184931 < meingtsla> That aside, you should fully qualify the path to wget. Do not assume that cron will have the same environment variables that you do.
04:00 < domhnall> johnc--: it's a capital 'O'
04:00 < lnnb> yeah i think XOrg terminology calls that "zap" which is configurable at compile time
04:00 < johnc--> ok
04:01 < thatpythonguy> @lnnb so basically, ctrl-alt-backspace is gonna kill x and go to a tty1-6 unless the user has specifically messed with that shortcut in some way
04:01 < thatpythonguy> correct?
04:01 < johnc--> thanks meingtsla, domhnall.
04:02 < lnnb> *if* the feature is supported, i think it is reasonable to expect that to happen if x was started from a TTY
04:04 < thatpythonguy> i wish there was a stopx command lol, i just figured out that 'zap' only restarts, i was looking for kill
04:07 < bb36e> Is there any Ctrl+alt+del equivalent in Linux? I guess alt+sysrq is kind of similar…just wondering
04:08 < ansraliant> funny thing, ctrl+alt+backspace never worked for me for some reason. I just kill the Display Manager, and it kills the X... worked most of times.
04:08 < thatpythonguy> @ansraliant that would work except I'm migrating to using no Display Manager and instead booting into console and running startx
04:09 < bb36e> I think many distros disable ^alt+del by default, so now you have to manually re-enable it
04:09 < bb36e> **disable ^alt+backspace
04:10 < thatpythonguy> I'm doing some research and it seems like there's basically no simple command to stop x
04:10 < domhnall> ctrl+alt+del does nothing on macbook keyboard. (running linux)
04:11 < domhnall> thatpythonguy: usually just doing 'exit' works for me. But not sure what startx brings up on other's distro. For me it's 3 terminals.
04:11 < thatpythonguy> ctrl-alt-delete only restarts it, killing all x processes is ugly and not graceful, stopping the login manager doesn't work if one isn't running... i'm not sure there's a simple, clean way
04:12 < thatpythonguy> @domhnall, startx runs ~/.xinitrc which most people use to start their Window Manager (like gnome, unity, etc)
04:13 < thatpythonguy> using 'exec gnome-session' or the like inside .xinitrc
04:13 < domhnall> think I'd be starting xfwm or whatever it is...
04:14 < thatpythonguy> running 'exit' in a tty1-6 might actually work because it would close all the current user's processes, including x server
04:14 < kittonian> hi all. has anyone here successfully got calendarserver 9.2 up and running? I have been struggling all day long with this and cannot get it to work (and there's no docs)
04:19 < Tech_8> suup
04:20 < bb36e> thatpythonguy: apparently alt+systq+k kills all processes on your current vtty, might help?
04:20 < thatpythonguy> @bb36e I can see how that would also work, but ideally the method would only stop x server and not all other processes
04:20 < thatpythonguy> I appreciate it tho
04:26 < ascii8bom> anyone have issues with channging screen brightness on KDE Plasma? the only way i've been able to control the brightness is via 'echo (VALUE HERE) > /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness'
04:27 < ansraliant> I used to have problems changing the screen brightness on an old Dell. It was because it tried to use dell_backlight instead of intel_backlight
04:27 < domhnall> ascii8bom: atm, using kde on obsd only but no issues.
04:28 < ansraliant> ascii8bom:  adding the parameter acpi_backlight=vendor to the kernel boot parameters worked for me.
04:29 < ansraliant> after that it used intel_backlight
04:29 < ascii8bom> ansraliant, i'll give it a shot
04:32 < lnnb> thathpythonguy, if you don't want the process killed by x shutting down, start it outside of x process tree. but it might close anyway if it's toolkit freaks out when the socket closes
04:32 < ascii8bom> looks like i already have that loaded: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash pci=noaer acpi_backlight=vendor"
04:32 < nekoseam> test2
04:33 < lnnb> also read the comment in the startx script lol
04:34 < ansraliant> ascii8bom: and it does not work? check what folders you have here /sys/class/backlight/
04:35 < ascii8bom> ls /sys/class/backlight/
04:35 < ascii8bom> dell_backlight  intel_backlight
04:36 < ascii8bom> ansraliant, correct, it doesn't work. only way i could find to change the backlight brightness is echo-ing to intel_backlight
04:38 < ascii8bom> i guess at this point i'm trying to figure out where i can configure it to write to intel_backlight when i press the key combination
04:40 < mjsmith> ascii8bom: I've got the location for my macbook
04:41 < ascii8bom> mjsmith, is it in a file somehwere?
04:41 < mjsmith> Ya it's in sysfs. I can send you my script
04:41 < ansraliant> ascii8bom: it certainly looks like the same problem I had with my dell. On my notes I have 3 options for the brightness. acpi_backlight=video, acpi_backlight=vendor and acpi_backlight=native
04:42 < dunnousernamefn> Hey, so I have this program that opens a pseudo-terminal (PTY) thingy, and I'm trying to read/write to it. It's emulating a micro which I programmed to just send back the characters it gets, but invert each bit.
04:42 < ansraliant> ascii8bom: the one that worked for me on opensuse is acpi_backlight=vendor
04:42 < ansraliant> ascii8bom: but on other distros it worked with native
04:42 < dunnousernamefn> cat doesn't seem to show a response when I echo to it, is that my fault or am I doing something wrong?
04:42 < ansraliant> ascii8bom: you might want to try them.
04:42 < ascii8bom> ansraliant, thanks for those options, i'll try them out now and see what happens
04:43 < mjsmith> https://pastebin.com/KwYD3qjh
04:43 < ascii8bom> mjsmith, thanks
04:43 < mjsmith> bindsym XF86MonBrightnessUp exec sudo /usr/local/bin/brightness.sh +100 # increase screen brightness
04:43 < mjsmith> bindsym XF86MonBrightnessDown exec sudo /usr/local/bin/brightness.sh -100 # decrease screen brightness
04:43 < mjsmith> If you're using i3wm or something
04:44 < mjsmith> For the macbook keyboard backlight it's this file and 0-255. BACKLIGHT="/sys/class/leds/smc::kbd_backlight/brightness"
04:45 < Evidlo> is it common for sites to disallow spaces in passwords?
04:46 < dunnousernamefn> Evidlo, are you like, spelling words?
04:46 < dunnousernamefn> I'm not sure, but it might be to prevent that
04:46 < dunnousernamefn> I've never tried it though
04:47 < Evidlo> I'm working on a password generator
04:48 < dunnousernamefn> o i c
04:48 < dunnousernamefn> I mean, you could always just stick to [A-Za-z0-9] and a few symbols
04:48 < Evidlo> and one of the options is "correct horse battery staple" style passwords
04:48 < dunnousernamefn> Ohhh, xkcd, I love it
04:49 < dunnousernamefn> I think someone already make an xkcd generator o_O
04:49 < dunnousernamefn> I doubt they'd exclude spaces
04:49 < dunnousernamefn> Unless they have some sort of whitelist
04:50 < dunnousernamefn> I honestly have no idea, some sites just suck at passwords
04:50 < dunnousernamefn> aha, https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/32691/why-not-allow-spaces-in-a-password
04:53 < Evidlo> think I'll do it anyways.  the user can handle special cases
04:54 < bb36e> Survey: Wayland: good or bad?
04:56 < DynV> On windows, with Cygwin installed, is there something I can do to get the kernel version of a *nix ISO?
04:57 < Bashing-om> bb36e: I find wayland faster and smoother than Xorg - but it presently has limited application support .
04:57 < Dan39> DynV: is it a custom ISO or something? just checksum it and google the checksum
05:02 < DynV> it's antiX-17.1_386-full.iso
05:02 < DynV> sorry for the delay
05:03 < Dan39> just google that? -_-
05:03 < DynV> I thought I could just run a command in cygwin
05:03 < DynV> to make sure
05:04 < DynV> or use a text software to look in a file
05:04 < bb36e> Unzip it
05:05 < DynV> in which file is it mentioned?
05:05 < Dan39> uh no, its an iso, not a zip
05:05 < Dan39> -_-
05:06 < DynV> I can use 7zip to look into it
05:06 < Dan39> 7z prolly will, yea
05:07 < Dan39> Customised 4.10.5 kernel
05:07 < Dan39> there, a quick google search
05:07 < DynV> I did a search and couldn't find it
05:07 < DynV> ty
05:07 < Dan39> google antix 17.1?
05:07 < Dan39> ffs
05:08 < DynV> I did a searched https://duckduckgo.com/?q=antiX+17.1+386+full+kernel&t=ffsb&ia=web and https://duckduckgo.com/?q=md5+be122001d80e59977b4ad45075d8444c+kernel&t=ffsb&ia=answer
05:08 < DynV> s/searched/searches/
05:09 < Dan39> DynV: but of course since it's customized, who the hell knows what it is
05:16 < bls> they should have a source repo with their patch list and .config
05:20 < erg_> hi if i do showmount -e <ip> on the client
05:20 < erg_> it dont see the nfs partition
05:20 < erg_> what could be wrong here
05:20 < pingfloyd> nfs is a filesystem
05:21 < pingfloyd> partition type never seems to matter with linux
05:22 < erg_> it says port mapper failure-timed out
05:33 < deww> anyone else got msged by ngravity look for "shells"
05:33 < dgs> yup
05:34 < deww> alright.
05:40 < pingfloyd> no
05:41 < esselfe> it's my bithday today, I'm proud to be a Linux user
05:41 < bls> hapy bithday
05:41 < esselfe> although I know this channel doesn't really celebrate birthdays
05:41 < esselfe> thanks
05:49 < zenix_2k2> not sure if this is the right place to ask but... when i create a file but HAVEN'T written anything to it, does it costs my memory to be fuller ? ( even a little bit )
05:49 < zenix_2k2> like when i try "touch file.txt" but no texts were written to it
05:49 < esselfe> zenix_2k2: perhaps some cache, but it's minimal
05:50 < esselfe> now the question is... how many of these files?
05:50 < zenix_2k2> how about in range from 1 to 100 ?
05:50 < esselfe> one file is a nail in the ocean
05:51 < esselfe> still a few nails in the ocean
05:51 < zenix_2k2> but in the cache ? not even in the primary storage ?
05:51 < zenix_2k2> not sure if that was the term but i meant permenant storage like HDD or SSD
05:51 < esselfe> yes, but the hardware reference are loaded into memory for faster access
05:51 < zenix_2k2> well ok then
05:51 < zenix_2k2> thk
05:52 < hoang_khoi> paraxial:
05:57 < Tahlwyn> c
05:57 < Tahlwyn> whoops
05:57 < jimm> swhoop?
05:58 < esselfe> Whoopie Goldberg
05:58 < bls> Sheryl Swoopes?
05:59 < jimm> let's introduce her to Yahoo Serious!
06:00  * esselfe is compiling eog since firefox and 'links -g' are the only options to view images here
06:00 < esselfe> rust took a while to compile and my flightgear adventure stopped at a simgear failure
06:01 < esselfe> what is a good book about UTF-8/iso-8859-1 font management?
06:02 < esselfe> I can't seem to find any valuable resources out there
06:02 < esselfe> I have some X11 fonts, but they don't seem to cover most symbols
06:02 < esselfe> (they're limited)
06:02 < bls> doubt you're going to find a book on such an obscure topic
06:03 < bls> and DejaVu is pretty much the best unicode coverage you're going to get
06:03 < esselfe> right, I was even thinking about my own freetype-based font, but it's weird
06:03 < bls> at least for something free/libre
06:04 < esselfe> the best representation I've seen is from firefox reading a page made with &DIGIT; chars
06:04 < esselfe> up to 10000
06:05 < esselfe> (bash scripted)
06:05 < aaro> for X font covering unicode check "efont-unicode"
06:05 < esselfe> alright
06:06 < birdbolt1> hello, how can i ignore redicrection with curl
06:06 < birdbolt1> redirection*
06:07 < bls> pretty sure curl doesn't follow 3XXs unless you tell it to (via -L)
06:08 < defkult> ^ is correct
06:09 < nekoseam> https://github.com/dylanaraps/neofetch/releases/tag/5.0.0 Neofetch 5.0 released
06:11 < birdbolt1> bls, defkult  thanks!
06:11 < birdbolt1> is 3XXs the techincal term for redirection or something?
06:12 < bls> no, it's what people use for the general classes when they can't remember the individual codes heh
06:13 < bls> birdbolt1: like the topic headings on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_status_codes#3xx_Redirection
06:14 < nekoseam> wew a mac pro
06:14 < nekoseam> those things are beasts
06:26 < nekoseam> Anybody here try the acme text editor? Is it really all its cracked up to be?
06:26 < bls> I used it for a couple of years
06:27 < nekoseam> I've standardized on JOE
06:27 < bls> it had some cool features I haven't seen reproduced to this day, but also had some really awkward stuff
06:29 < bls> closest I've seen to that interface was using org-babel in emacs
06:30  * darkmeson also has a slight preference for joe for some reason
06:30 < nekoseam> its amazingly fast
06:31 < darkmeson> actually, I guess the one reason is that it's not as huge as the vim packages tend to be
06:32 < darkmeson> the other is that I developed an irrational hatred for all things vi early on since I was constantly dumped to it and it told neither what it was, nor how to exit it
06:32 < nekoseam> I don't really bother using any CLI programs I can't figure out by reading the manpages
06:34 < darkmeson> I eventually figured out what it was by trial and error and learned to switch to another console to kill -9 it whenever I got dropped to it, but it wasn't until a couple years later, after the damage was already done, that I learned about $EDITOR
06:34 < darkmeson> nekoseam: that's just the thing. back then, it was hard enough to get the main packages, let alone the manpage sets
06:34 < bls> don't really understand why we stick with EDITOR=VISUAL=vi
06:35 < bls> when the alternative was ed, sure, but that's decades ago
06:35 < darkmeson> the modem maxed out at 14.4K,  the connection was spotty at best, and there was a hard four hour disconnect if you somehow miraculously were able to stay connected that long to begin with
06:36 < darkmeson> and of course, nothing supported range requests, so all failed transfers had to start over from 0
06:37 < Dagmar> Because ed is the _default_, and vi (usually vim) is available everywhere
06:37 < Dagmar> ...or would you rather have systems defaulting to using...
06:37 < Dagmar> EMACS
06:38 < Dagmar> That would be a great way to introduce users to Linux...
06:38 < Dagmar> Simply tell them they will spend the next two weeks learning about the text editor.
06:38 < darkmeson> it couldn't have been any worse than early vi :)
06:38 < jimm> it has a builtin tutorial
06:38 < bls> not arguing that. but between having too listen to noob whinge about vi and neckbeards whinge about getting dumped into traingwheelseditor2.0, I choose the latter
06:39 < darkmeson> jimm EARLY vi, 90s
06:39 < Dagmar> I don't whinge.  I just freakin' use vim and get on with my day
06:39 < Triffid_Hunter> I like nano, it's pretty powerful when you turn on all the features
06:39 < bls> they're much better at the whinging
06:39 < Dagmar> Vim is the editor used by people who just quietly get sh*t done.
06:39 < Triffid_Hunter> syntax highlighting, smart home, smart indent, block indenting, line numbers, etc etc
06:40 < Dagmar> I use IntelliJ for stuff like that.
06:40 < bls> I heard they even added regexps eventually!
06:40 < darkmeson> we used nano in college, but I forget why I ended up favoring joe. more screen real estate freed for content maybe?
06:41 < Dagmar> the emacs people might have been able to get a foothold, but they're usually spending all their time trying to figure out how to integrate calendaring functionality into Emacs or somesuch
06:41 < jimm> I kinda like this, you're sharing what you use, and no one else is commenting on your choice... that's one way to avoid a war
06:41 < Triffid_Hunter> bfs: oh yeah, regex search/replace too, it's awesome
06:41 < darkmeson> Dagmar: what? no sed?
06:41 < Dagmar> vim has those
06:41 < baiguai> +1 vim
06:42 < Dagmar> Maybe once in a blue moon I'll bother to use more than the basic 3-4 commands you need to get around in vim
06:43 < Triffid_Hunter> heh whenever I find myself in vim I just quietly swear to myself and immediately hit I.. amusingly I don't even have vi or vim installed at the moment
06:43 < bls> that was a bit of a breakthrough moment with vi...realizing the stuff you did with sed/awk/cut/grep could be done in vi, live, on screen
06:43 < Dagmar> I usually hit a instead of i... sometimes C
06:43 < Dagmar> Often o
06:44 < Dagmar> So much slash-searching it's not even funny tho
06:44 < binTrl> Can anyone recommend a file manager which allows adding custom protocols as plugins ?
06:45 < Dagmar> Nautilus, if you feel like writing them
06:45 < k_sze[work]> So I have a folder that is chmodded as 2775 (drwxrwsr-x), and I have a user that belongs to the group. What can cause the user to be unable to even `touch` a file in that folder?
06:45 < revel> Like sftp:// access?
06:45 < Dagmar> If it doesn't already exist, then it probably doesn't follow a very amenable usage mode.
06:45 < k_sze[work]> The user has already re-logged in since being added to the group.
06:45 < k_sze[work]> Other users in the same group are fine.
06:46 < baiguai> I use macros all the time - just wrote a couple, chained em - to convert ~20K records into 1K chunks of SQL union inserts.
06:46 < Dagmar> k_sze[work]: The file itself not being in their group and them not owning it
06:46 < Triffid_Hunter> binTrl: dolphin :P
06:46 < k_sze[work]> Dagmar: no, I mean creating a new empty file using `touch`.
06:46 < Dagmar> k_sze[work]: It's not without reason that new files created in a group-sticky dir take on the group membership by default
06:46 < Dagmar> k_sze[work]: ACLs, SELinux, or you just plain broke the filesystem
06:46 < bls> k_sze[work]: what're the intermediate permissions?
06:47 < Dagmar> ...or... one of your assumptions is not true
06:47 < darkmeson> baiguai: I mostly use sed, grep, and shell scripting for things like that
06:47 < k_sze[work]> bls: intermediate?
06:47 < Dagmar> A small amount of the time the issue is that someone found a way to actually shed their extra group permissions
06:47 < Dagmar> k_sze[work]: They do still have to be able to traverse all the parent directories.  Sometimes people forget that
06:47 < baiguai> darkmeson: sweet
06:48 < bls> k_sze[work]: yes, as if /a/b/c/d the user has permissions on d but not a, b, or c
06:48 < k_sze[work]> the user *can* traverse, he's *in* the directory right now.
06:48 < Dagmar> OKay then that's not it.  Have them run `id`
06:48 < k_sze[work]> I did
06:48 < k_sze[work]> he's in the group
06:48 < Dagmar> Okay then it's going to be ACLs or SElinux or the filesystem has become unwritable for some reason
06:49 < darkmeson> sed by itself is actually extremely powerful, but sadly, I'm nowhere near master level yet
06:49 < Dagmar> There's not a lot of moving parts to this, but those two are somewhat esoteric and rather problematic In The Wrong Hands
06:49 < k_sze[work]> Dagmar: I have another user in the group who *can* touch-create a new file. So it's not the fs becoming unwritable, I think.
06:49 < bls> doesn't help that it's so terse. I can occasionaly get a working loop in it
06:49 < Dagmar> k_sze[work]: okay, so again... ACLs or SElinux is in the way
06:51 < k_sze[work]> Dagmar: I use `getfacl` to check for ACLs on the folder?
06:51 < bls> also, what's the user's umask (can't recall if you can have 700 and only group write perms)
06:51 < binTrl> Triffid_Hunter: not K* stuff please. Requires a lot of baggage
06:52 < k_sze[work]> bls: how do I check?
06:52 < bls> that'd be a google or read the source code thing
06:52 < bls> looking
06:52 < Triffid_Hunter> binTrl: heh so does gnome and anything else with application-level protocol plugins.. perhaps you want to play with fuse?
06:54 < bls> yeah, you're better off mounting the FSs under the hood and picking a file manager based on appearance/workflow instead of whether or not it can mount dumb-protocol-no-one-else-uses
06:55 < k_sze[work]> bls: `UMASK 022` and `USERGROUPS_ENAB yes` in /etc/login.defs
06:55 < Dagmar> k_sze[work]: yes, and you'd use ls -Z to see any ACLs
06:56 < k_sze[work]> Dagmar: nothing interesting there, all folders preceded by a single question mark
06:56 < bls> right, those are the login defaults. people can change them though (and I'm still not getting any hits on the umask vs perm bits)
06:56 < Dagmar> Okay so no ACls then, which is good because it's easy to rule out
06:57 < binTrl> bls: I intend to use adb to get to my phone fs. Enlighten me.
06:57 < Dagmar> binTrl: `adb shell` doesn't generally require a lot of explanation
06:57 < binTrl> Dagmar: a gui based would be great
06:58 < Dagmar> Note that Android makes _extensive_ use of SELinux so the shell generally doesn't have a lot of access
06:58 < binTrl> One with nice thumbnails, multi select stuff
06:58 < Dagmar> Any file manager capable of MTP
06:58 < revel> Does it have to specifically be over ADB?
06:58 < bls> binTrl: as Triffid_Hunter mentioned, there's a lot of support for FUSE filesystems for weird things like that that your kernel maintainer or file browser author don't want to bother to support
06:58 < Dagmar> ...but again, it's not going to give you very much access to anything but the microSD card
06:58 < binTrl> Dagmar: MTP is freaking slow
06:58 < nothos> binTrl You can mount your android file system using tools to access it the same as any other disk
06:58 < Dagmar> USB isn't exactly super-fast
06:58 < binTrl> revel: Not if there's any better option
06:59 < nothos> Or like Dagmar said, a file manager that does MTP
06:59 < Dagmar> MTP is your only serious option
06:59 < revel> binTrl: There's SFTP support on quite a few file managers.
06:59 < veridiam> solid explorer + sftp is a dream
06:59 < Dagmar> The mass-storage device support never worked entirely correctly (it was actually unsafe) and is no longer available from like Android 5 onward
06:59 < bls> yeah, that was super freaking annoying
07:00 < Dagmar> You could be as lazy as I am about it
07:00 < binTrl> nothos: No you can't
07:00 < Dagmar> Pick the file in the phone's file manager, share to Google Drive
07:00 < Dagmar> ...then it's just magically available on my desktop somewhere a few minutes later.
07:00 < binTrl> Dagmar: We are talking about a few gigs of files
07:00 < Dagmar> Put them on an SDCard and remove the SDcard
07:00 < binTrl> Respect bandwidth
07:00 < revel> Better compress them first then :D
07:00 < bls> well I was around for the cutover, when my workflows were based on it being a mountable file system, mtp sucked, and gdrive wasn't a viable thing
07:01 < Dagmar> I don't really have any speed problems with MTP
07:01 < binTrl> Aaarrghhhh.... ADB *still* sounds better that gdrive, compress, SDcard ...
07:01 < revel> I do. And it can't do "walk and chew bubble gum" at the same time.
07:01 < revel> i.e literally any two different actions at the same time.
07:01 < Dagmar> I can basically guarantee you transplanting an sdcard is going to be faster
07:02 < nothos> binTrl Erm...yes you can? I've done :P
07:02 < iodev> Dagmar: SD card transplant .. no thanks
07:02 < binTrl> nothos: Enlighten me.
07:02 < nothos> binTrl https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Media_Transfer_Protocol#FUSE_filesystems Try installing mtpfs
07:03 < binTrl> actually there's one https://github.com/sole/aafm but the gui is damn rudimentary
07:03 < iodev> nothos: the problem is the file managers are using mounters
07:03 < iodev> instead of direct MTP, SFTP accesss
07:03 < bls> binTrl: the point is to decouple the mounting from the GUI
07:03 < iodev> thorugh plugins
07:04 < veridiam> use a browser with ftp:// ?
07:04 < binTrl> nothos: anything with the word mtp attached to it is probably gonna suck
07:04 < nothos> binTrl True, but being able to do it != user friendly and enjoyable
07:05 < nothos> Basically linux in a nutshell sometimes :D
07:05 < binTrl> veridiam: Better, install ssh server on device and ssh over it. But I need it to work out of the box
07:06 < veridiam> well all that you get 'out of the box' is MTP or ADB if enabled
07:07 < binTrl> That's why I'm looking for a explorer with customizabe protocols (where I'd use ADB)
07:11 < binTrl> FUSE looks pretty neat. Gotta look at it
07:13 < darkmeson> oh, it is. sshfs in particular is a life saver
07:13 < Mo> Hi, on grep, is it possible to preserve the colors of the primary command?
07:14 < bls> if you went for FUSE, you could mount all kinds of stuff and you wouldn't have to worry about switching file managers for a single device and the authors of your preferred file manager wouldn't have to worry about them writing that code for themselves
07:14 < darkmeson> actually, just about anything fuse-based is better than native kernel modules if you can afford the slower access because they can be unwedged just by killing the backing daemon rather than having to reboot
07:15 < bls> Mo: are you piping multiple greps? do you really need to?
07:15 < bls> or is this want the grep output colors to show up in less
07:16 < Mo> bls: I have a command returning commands that I like to grep, whithout loosing colors. I got it working by disabling greps own coloring like --color=never.
07:17 < bls> ok, then you need to figure out how to tell the command in front of grep to not drop its colors
07:18 < bls> because individual commands can/do decide whether or not to output color based on whether or not their output is to a screen or to a pipe
07:18 < lnnb> Mo: it entered commands or you pressed return?
07:18 < Mo> I got it working by --color=never
07:19 < Mo> So that disables grep colors and instead does not strip the incoming colors in front of the pipe.
07:23 < lnnb> Mo: i see what you mean now
07:25 < lnnb> color=always ?
07:25 < lnnb> instead of never
07:26 < bls> color=always means grep outputs codes to clear all color, then apply its own color to matches
07:26 < bls> which gets rid of whatever color was set in its input
07:27 < lnnb> bls: it doesn't clear the first grep match if you put always on the second
07:27 < Mo> lnnb: always does the opposite and does not work.
07:27 < Mo> like bls said..
07:27 < lnnb> works here
07:28 < lnnb> LC=C
07:28 < elf> deww: yes i got a msg from him too
07:28 < Mo> lnnb: 'ls -al ~'   does that output colors for you?
07:29 < lnnb> not unless i use --color option
07:29 < lnnb> or am in a shell with it aliased
07:30 < Mo> lnnb:  'ls -al --color=always ~ |grep --color=always .'  Does that still output the same colors for you?
07:30 < Mo> For me not, only for color=never on grep.
07:30 < lnnb> lol it changes the colors
07:31 < Mo> lnnb: Exactly, like bls said.
07:31 < lnnb> if i use color=never with grep the colors are still there from ls
07:31 < Mo> You got it.
07:31 < lnnb> why would it change the colors
07:32 < Mo> Like bls said.
07:32 < lnnb> so what happens if you don't terminate the color
07:33 < lnnb> i thought he meant strip the color when he said clear all codes
07:34 < bls> no, I meant that grep want to make sure you can tell what it matched, so it drops the color from its input, than adds its own color back on top
07:35  * Mo likes to get some grep --color=merged
07:44 < smallville7123> 15:41 smallville7123: How do i mount an iso
07:44 < smallville7123> 15:42 smallville7123: I keep getting /dev/loop0: permission denied
07:44 < smallville7123> 15:43 smallville7123: https://i.imgur.com/fHyZq8o.jpg
07:46 < binTrl> smallville7123: I see you are using codeanywhere.
07:47 < binTrl> Maybe you are not allowed to mess up with loop devices
07:48 < smallville7123> How tf would that makesence when i hv sudo rights
07:59 < RayTracer> smallville7123: try mount -o ro,loop
07:59 < Psi-Jack> smallville7123: Tip : There is a language policy here. One, try not to use vulgarity, even shorthanded vulgarity. Second, speaking of shorthanding, "hv" is not the same as "have", we prefer English here.
08:01 < smallville7123> https://i.imgur.com/M23qrzS.jpg
08:04 < sauvin> smallville7123, you can't directly mount an ISO that way if it's an ISO 9660 image (most data CDs and DVDs).
08:04 < smallville7123> lsmod shows no modules loaded
08:05 < sauvin> Try using -t iso9660, I think it is.
08:05 < Psi-Jack> That's an unusual screenshot.
08:06 < sauvin> Looks like it's on a phone.
08:06 < Psi-Jack> Yeah.
08:06 < Psi-Jack> With no sim card. heh
08:06 < ansraliant> a phone with arch
08:07 < sauvin> And still probably more capable than Agent Smart's shoe phone.
08:07 < Psi-Jack> Well, more like a phone connected to ssh somewhere with the connected wifi.
08:07 < ansraliant> https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/today_I_saw_weird_shit_billy_madison.gif
08:08 < ansraliant> haha
08:08 < smallville7123> i keep geep getting /dev/loop0: operation not permitted
08:08 < smallville7123> keep*
08:08 < ansraliant> I should not laugh at my own jokes... damn.
08:08 < Psi-Jack> Repeating that without information is not useful.
08:09 < smallville7123> What more do you need, you have a screenshot
08:09 < Psi-Jack> ...
08:10 < sauvin> smallville7123, mind you, I'm assuming "real computer" and not phone, tablet or things running goofy libc: try mount -t iso9660 isofile.iso mountpoint
08:10 < smallville7123> It a ssh container
08:10 < smallville7123> opemvz
08:10 < smallville7123> openvz*
08:11 < smallville7123> www.codeanywhere.org
08:12 < smallville7123> https://www.codeanywhere.org
08:12 < DynV> Dan39: it's a customized 4.9.87
08:13 < sauvin> "codeanywhere.org" won't resolve for me. Hrm.
08:13 < smallville7123> https://codeanywhere.com/
08:15 < ansraliant> is this a web IDE?
08:16 < smallville7123> i guess
08:16 < jim> I did get it to resolve
08:16 < sauvin> "you guess"?
08:16 < Psi-Jack> And what does that have to do with mounting an ISO file?
08:16 < sauvin> smallville7123, why are you trying to mount an arch iso in this environment?
08:17 < smallville7123> Because it doesnt have a arch container and e kernel is too old to run a modern arch chroot
08:18 < smallville7123> the*
08:18 < smallville7123> 2.6.32
08:19 < Psi-Jack> ...
08:19 < Psi-Jack> Ooookkaay.. It's making even less sense now. :p
08:20 < smallville7123> Rip
08:27 < xormor> there was a command to look at the "ELF" magic etc. on an executable file. What command is that?
08:29 < birdbolt1> just double checking
08:29 < birdbolt1> rm -rf *.git
08:29 < birdbolt1> removes every folder all the way down
08:30 < birdbolt1> which ends in .git right>
08:30 < birdbolt1> well every folder and file
08:30 < birdbolt1> right?
08:30 < iflema> yes and no
08:30 < iflema> y the star?
08:31 < birdbolt1> .git files existed in multiple directories below the current path
08:31 < darkmeson> xormor: something other than 'file'?
08:31 < birdbolt1> .git folders too
08:32 < birdbolt1> I wanted them all gone and hoped that command should do
08:33 < birdbolt1> My buddy did git add * on his mac
08:33 < birdbolt1> and it added parent directories as well
08:33 < birdbolt1> whats up with that
08:33 < xormor> darkmeson, I think it was something other than that.
08:34 < darkmeson> birdbolt1:  'find . -type d -name .git' might be what you want
08:35 < birdbolt1> but i wanna delete not simply find them darkmeson
08:35 < darkmeson> run it that way to verify what would be acted on, then tack on '-exec rm -rf "{}" ;' to have it delete those directories
08:36 < darkmeson> ugh. that ; should be a \;
08:36  * darkmeson forgot that his client requires \'s to be escaped
08:38 < darkmeson> xormor: there's ldd to show linked libraries, or maybe something from elfutils?
08:39 < dnanib> find . -type d -name .git -print0 | xargs -0r rm -rf
08:39 < darkmeson> oh, wait, readelf
08:39 < ansraliant> what do you guys think of spacemacs? is it some kind of mutant?
08:39 < ansraliant> maybe you heard things
08:40 < ansraliant> I knew about an emacs die hard fan, he told me about it. I myself am a vim user. I know, a vim user friends with an emacs user? well.. it's the new millenium.
08:41 < ansraliant> Times change
08:42  * kurahaupo doesn't mention in polite company that he uses both vim and emacs keybindings
08:43 < Psi-Jack> OKay, something serious is going on here. I've got chrome open with a gazillions tabs, Steam is open, rambox (electron app) is open, evolution, hexchat, pidgin, synergy... And I'm only  using 3.6GB RAM.
08:43 < Psi-Jack> That.... Is impressive.
08:44 < ansraliant> 3.6GB RAM left
08:44 < auronandace> Psi-Jack: if you have hardware acceleration on wouldn't some of those use your graphics ram?
08:45 < Psi-Jack> auronandace: What? No...
08:45 < Cleron> hello
08:45 < Psi-Jack> ansraliant: No, 3.6GB /used/
08:46 < Psi-Jack> I used Arch before Solus, openSUSE and Fedora before that, and just this would've easily been consuming 8-16GB RAM.
08:46 < ansraliant> what are you using now?
08:46 < Psi-Jack> Solus.
08:46 < ansraliant> interesting
08:47 < Cleron> I realize its not recommended to put a gui on a linux server. Is it possible on a server to install Cinnamon or Gnome and start it up when i need to make some changes and shut it down after but let the linux server to keep running?
08:47 < auronandace> Psi-Jack: does your ram measurement include cacheing
08:48 < Psi-Jack> auronandace: Well, considering caches, that's 12GB of cache.
08:48 < darkmeson> compressed ram or swap or something?
08:48 < xormor> darkmeson, "readelf"
08:48 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
08:49 < darkmeson> page deduplication?
08:49 < Psi-Jack> No.
08:49 < hendrix> I'm on xfce, few apps and 6 pages open, 5,44GB used.
08:49 < Psi-Jack> hendrix: Exactly!
08:49 < Psi-Jack> When I say that before I would be using 8~16GB that was when apps used memory, not caches.
08:50 < hendrix> I long for days when 8MB ram was enough
08:50 < Psi-Jack> And now, only /using/ 3.6GB for applications, and the rest for caches..
08:51 < darkmeson> that IS just RES right?
08:51 < darkmeson> oh wait, nevermind. I was thinking the usual linuxatemyram case
08:52 < darkmeson> *along the lines of
08:52 < darkmeson> also already covered, albeit a different way
08:53 < Psi-Jack> Heh
08:53 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, I'm just shocked.
08:54 < Psi-Jack> I don't think I've ever seen this kind of memory utilization in Linux ever before now. Now I want to know why. LOL
08:54 < birdbolt1> https://downloadmoreram.com/
08:54 < luke-jr> browsers
08:55 < mavorsa> its illuminati
08:55 < luke-jr> OS: GNU/Linux 4.17.0-gentoo/ppc64le - CPU: 64x IBM POWER9 - Processes: 746 - Uptime: 2d 2h 28m - Users: 15 - Load Average: 61.07 - Memory Usage: 5203MB/65218MB (7%)
08:55 < luke-jr> ^ no browsers
08:55 < Psi-Jack> Someone hasn't been paying attention. :)
08:56 < luke-jr> dropped to 4.6 GB by killing krunner O.o
08:56 < Psi-Jack> luke-jr: 3.6GB /used/ (12GB in caches), Chrome open with ~30~40 tabs. Rambox (electron app, memory hungry), hexchat, evolution, steam, etc)
08:56 < luke-jr> Psi-Jack: how?
08:56 < Psi-Jack> Exactly!
08:56 < luke-jr> X seems to be 1.3 GB
08:56 < mavorsa> the power of jesus christ? :P
08:57 < ansraliant> how much memory do you have luke-jr? 65GB?
08:57 < luke-jr> ansraliant: 64 GB
08:57 < birdbolt1> i will one day be like you
08:57 < birdbolt1> as soon as msft starts making 64 GB ram surface books
08:57 < ansraliant> hahah
08:57 < luke-jr> I'm only using 2 of my 16 RAM slots for that
08:57 < luke-jr> this system supports up to 2 TB RAM :p
08:57 < birdbolt1> holy shit 32GB ram sticks exist?
08:57 < luke-jr> yes..
08:58 < luke-jr> as do 128 GB RAM sticks
08:58 < birdbolt1> oh wow
08:58 < mavorsa> is this a server we're talking about?
08:58 < luke-jr> no
08:58 < ansraliant> no?
08:58 < Psi-Jack> No, this is a desktop.
08:58 < luke-jr> new desktop PC
08:58 < birdbolt1> are those ram sticks suitable for gaming?
08:58 < luke-jr> dunno
08:58 < birdbolt1> i know the speed fo the ram is usuuuualy negligible but
08:58 < luke-jr> I play Jedi Academy occasionally
08:58 < birdbolt1> nah man. I roll with AAA games
08:58 < luke-jr> kinda slow, but I'm pretty sure that's because I use CPU rendering
08:58 < birdbolt1> gpu intensive shooters
08:59 < Disconsented> 32GB UDIMM's arnt a thing (yet) but there are 32GB RDIMM's
08:59 < mavorsa> sounds like you could play solitaire on thing or something.... :P
08:59 < birdbolt1> lol
08:59 < morf> i think they have 256GB ram modules already btw
08:59 < mavorsa> but i could be overstepping that claim
08:59 < birdbolt1> you mean minesweeper
08:59 < birdbolt1> solitaire would run out of mem
08:59 < darkmeson> Cleron: yes, you can, but ssh forwarding to the local X11 server would probably be easier for very occasional use
08:59 < Psi-Jack> Huh... My work desktop is about the same. 2.3GB, Chrome open with about 20 tabs, rambox, hexchat, pidgin, keepassxc, evolution, etc..
08:59 < luke-jr> mavorsa: with 64 threads, CPU rendering is playable for Jedi Academy :p
08:59 < hendrix> my computer supports whopping 8GB RAM!
08:59 < birdbolt1> what cpu is that?
08:59 < luke-jr> birdbolt1: dual 8-core POWER9 CPUs
09:00 < birdbolt1> holy shit what do you do with that
09:00 < birdbolt1> ive never seena  dual cpu mobo irl
09:00 < luke-jr> not much
09:00 < smallville7123> How do i update elf.h
09:00 < ansraliant> with a load like that, it must me something heavy
09:00 < ansraliant> load average 61
09:00 < luke-jr> birdbolt1: initially, they only made dual socket motherboards for these
09:00 < Psi-Jack> smallville7123: You make little sence, still.
09:00 < luke-jr> birdbolt1: and if you only install 1 CPU, you only get 2 PCI-e slots :/
09:00 < Cleron> just installed Cinnamon on debien when i reboot it goes back to commandline login. how to i start cinnamon?
09:00 < birdbolt1> I had a TR processor for a bit 32 threads *sob*. Had to sell the parts for a surface book cuz the thing was too big to carry to and from school very sememster
09:01 < smallville7123> My elf.h doesnt have the required defines i need
09:01 < luke-jr> ansraliant: well, I keep it busy with some idle tasks
09:01 < lnnb> luke-jr: if only the renderer was optimized for the cpu
09:01 < Psi-Jack> Man.. I /really/ want to know what the magic Solus is doing to accomplish this memory utilization!
09:01 < ansraliant> is there a solus channel? we could ask there
09:01 < Psi-Jack> Sure, there is. But most people are sleeping. :)
09:01 < ansraliant> kick the door and ask "what are you doing with the memory management?" all in caps
09:01 < Psi-Jack> And me, well, I'm about to sleep.
09:02 < luke-jr> what is Solus?
09:02 < Psi-Jack> luke-jr: A Linux distribution designed for desktop use.
09:02 < luke-jr> does it support POWER?
09:02 < Psi-Jack> It has the POWER.
09:02 < ansraliant> lel
09:02 < Psi-Jack> ... of greyskull?
09:02 < mavorsa> can it run a fully operational battlestation?
09:02 < darkmeson> Cleron: startx as your user, or systemctl start graphical.target, or service gdm start, etc
09:03 < Psi-Jack> mavorsa: Well, I have it connecting, via ssh, to my battlestation in my home office. :)
09:03 < Cleron> so startx will not work as root?
09:04 < Psi-Jack> Cleron: You shouldn't run X as root.
09:04 < luke-jr> startx as root will ideally exec halt
09:04 < Psi-Jack> You shouldn't run X on a server either.
09:04 < morf> nah just do whatever you want
09:04 < lnnb> but don't talk to strangers
09:05 < Cleron> can i shut down x any time so that it does not use up resources on a server, then just start it up when i need it?
09:05 < bartmon> mavorsa, i feel like i should know that reference... where's it from?
09:05 < luke-jr> Cleron: you may be interested in Xpra
09:05 < luke-jr> bartmon: Star Wars..
09:05 < mavorsa> bartmon: star wars, emperor reference
09:05 < Psi-Jack> Anyway.. Sleepy time.
09:05 < bartmon> thank.
09:06 < luke-jr> anyone know if there's any modern standards for Ethernet that are bus instead of star?
09:06 < bartmon> s/\./s./
09:06 < Psi-Jack> Cleron: ssh into the server when you need to do something. There's a whole list of reasons why running xorg on a server is bad.
09:07 < birdbolt1> yo isnt xorg like an input controller or some shit?
09:07 < nothos> Now'd be a bad time to mention xrdp then?
09:07 < ansraliant> luke-jr: bus ethernet. Now that's something I haven't heard in a long time
09:08 < luke-jr> ansraliant: thinking about putting a SoC at every outlet when I build a house, but it'd be a pain to have a switch port for each one..
09:09 < luke-jr> not to mention all the Cat7 that'd entail
09:10 < ansraliant> so you want them to share the cable
09:12 < luke-jr> ansraliant: ideally, yes
09:12 < Cleron> When i do StartX i get -bash: startx: command not found. When i type "systemctl start graphical.target" it ask for password Authentication is required to start 'graphical.target'. than it sais ==== AUTHENTICATION COMPLETE ===
09:12 < Cleron> . But does not start cinnamon. When i do "service gdm start" it sais -bash: service: command not found
09:14 < ansraliant> luke-jr: it should be possible. I don't remember much of the ethernet standards. Time to refresh my memory. I have somewhere my computer networks by Tannenbaum
09:14 < ansraliant> haha
09:19 < ansraliant> luke-jr: I think 802.3 supports bus topology out of the box. There is no need to do anything
09:20 < ansraliant> luke-jr: 802.3 defines CSMA/CD so.. in theory it should work
09:20 < luke-jr> ansraliant: but what on the physical layer?
09:21 < luke-jr> I mean, STP has two well-defined ends, right?
09:26 < ansraliant> yes, but wait. There was something you attached to the end of the backbone to solve that problem
09:27 < Triffid_Hunter> binTrl: fwiw I've mounted my phone using sshfs (a FUSE module) before.. way better than mtp which seems to crash all the damn time
09:27 < ansraliant> luke-jr: https://www.coursehero.com/file/p7fa9n/A-terminator-is-required-at-each-end-of-the-bus-cable-to-prevent-the-signal/
09:28 < ansraliant> luke-jr: I'm not crazy...
09:28 < ansraliant> I found it by searching thing attached end cable
09:28 < ansraliant> haha
09:29 < ansraliant> luke-jr: so, you have your backbone, with the thing attached at the end, the beginning in your main pc or whatever. The SoC connected to the bus throught the sockets. Everything else should work out normally
09:29 < ansraliant> but you will have half-duplex
09:30 < ansraliant> But I don't think that will bother you
09:31 < luke-jr> ansraliant: sure this isn't talking about obsolete 10Base2 stuff?
09:32 < ansraliant> I think it was until 100BaseT... let me check
09:39 < peetaur2> is there a way to ask sshd which algo it is currently using for an existing connection?
09:39 < ansraliant> luke-jr: well.. it seems it was until 10Base5
09:39 < peetaur2> (kex, mac, cipher, host key)
09:39 < luke-jr> so ancient/obsolete :/
09:39 < ansraliant> yeah, were back at square one
09:40 < ansraliant> guess you'll have to buy a big switch and a lot of UTP cable...
09:41 < momomo> I have a printer that I've successfully installed using WPS and without cables ... however, the Scanner functionality seem to work, at least with my program on Ubunut (Mint). Is there a program or an easy way to get the scanner functionality to work as well without cables ?
09:41  * luke-jr wonders how practical it is to do Ethernet over CAN
09:42 < ansraliant> luke-jr: or, you can jump into the wireless wagon
09:42 < luke-jr> pretty sure that many clients will overload a router
09:42 < ansraliant> depends on the router
09:42 < ansraliant> by the way, how many clients do you think you will have?
09:43 < peetaur2> if you can't scale horizontally, it doesn't matter which router...it still sucks.
09:43 < luke-jr> dunno, my current house has probably at least 30 outlets
09:44 < peetaur2> I think connections per second, packets per second, bandwidth, and whether you use traffic shaping, qos, etc. is more relevant than the number of ports
09:44 < ansraliant> 30 clients is nothing
09:57 < mavorsa> i wish there was a better xfce theme manager that actually changed all the desktop elements instead of just a few, so i can actually have a day theme and a night theme... #firstworldproblems
10:03 < searedvandal> what doesn't it change?
10:03 < searedvandal> the window manager stuff?
10:03 < well_laid_lawn> you could probably script it with calls to xfconfig mavorsa
10:03 < searedvandal> yeah
10:03 < lopid> hold down the brightness button on your monitor for the night theme
10:03 < searedvandal> haha
10:04 < mavorsa> well, for example, i have xfce-theme-manager, but the wallpaper section doesn't want to do anything when changing themes
10:04 < mavorsa> so ill change themes and the panels will change but the background wont
10:05 < searedvandal> xfce-theme-manager -t theme -b wallpaper.png
10:05 < mavorsa> somehow i also mucked up my gtkrc, as i have to manually define it in my home directory for the panels.
10:06 < mavorsa> searedvandal: hm, maybe i can tie that to an alias or something
10:06 < searedvandal> yeah
10:06 < searedvandal> take a look at the man page for all the cli options
10:07 < searedvandal> I believe you have to pass the -n option also in order to not start the gui
10:08 < searedvandal> if I remember correctly. currently on mate, so haven't used it in a while
10:11 < kevr> any clue why xrandr output positioning would not work in ~/.xinitrc?
10:13 < kurahaupo> kevr: first guess, .xinitrc isn't being read
10:14 < kurahaupo> Throw in a « date +'%F,%T xinitrc check' >> ~/.xinitrc
10:15 < kurahaupo> Gah
10:15 < kurahaupo> I meant throw in a « date +'%F,%T xinitrc check' >> ~/.xinitrc.log
10:15 < kurahaupo> »
10:15 < mavorsa> i'm not sure what im doing with the xfce-theme-manager cli. do is specify the theme by just the name or the path? and if the path, is it supposed to point to a file that xfce-theme-manager compiled from the theme components? and where is that?
10:21 < storge> if only there was some sort of manual
10:21 < mavorsa> man page doesn't mention it
10:22 < mavorsa> okay well meta theme im guessing means just the name, but that doesn't work
10:22 < mavorsa> (which is why i questioned it)
10:23 < searedvandal> another way is xfconf-query
10:24 < searedvandal> believe for themes it's xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Net/ThemeName -s "Themename"
10:25 < searedvandal> can do a simliar line for wallpaper was well
10:26 < mavorsa> right, so this theme manager's cli doesn't use custom compiled references, which means ill have to define gtk, xfwm, icons, etc all manually in the same line
10:30 < mavorsa> right, so all of that worked, except for the background still (the xfce-manager cli). its like the xfce desktop settings seem to override it
10:31 < searedvandal> try to do wallpaper with xfconf-query
10:33 < searedvandal> xfconf-query -c xfce4-desktop -m to see what the location of backdrop entry is, and then xfconf-query -c xfce4-desktop -p /path/to/backdrop -s /path/to/wallpaper.png
10:34 < mavorsa> is there a way to specify both the gtk and the window manager theme separately (as i combine two different themes between these)?
10:38 < searedvandal> xfconf-query -c xettings -p /Net/ThemeName -s "Theme" and xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/theme -s "Theme" should set different themes
10:39 < searedvandal> the last one is for the window manager
10:39 < mavorsa> also the monitor just shows "/backdrop/screen0/monitor0/image-path" when i change themes
10:40 < mavorsa> i assume that's what is in a file somewhere but no idea what file if so
10:41 < searedvandal> for wallpaper? do xfconf-query -c xfce4-desktop -p /backdrop/screen0/monitor0/image-path -s /path/to/wallpaper.png
10:44 < mavorsa> the /Net/ThemeName, do i replace that with the theme name? and what if it has a space in it?
10:44 < mavorsa> or is that just the path to the theme?
10:44 < searedvandal> that's the property name of the theme
10:45 < searedvandal> so you should write it like that, not replace it with theme name
10:45 < mavorsa> okay, well its saying the property "/Net/ThemeName" does not exist on channel "xsettings", should i create it or something?
10:46 < searedvandal> do xfconf-query -c xsettings -m
10:47 < mavorsa> well, it is showing that its setting /Net/ThemeName
11:02 < mavorsa> i'm just wondering why the desktop settings are overriding the theme manager.
11:07 < JamesZhu> hi there
11:07 < JamesZhu> is there a channel for storage tech?
11:10 < searedvandal> think there is a ##storage channel, but don't know how active it is
11:10 < GNU\colossus> JamesZhu, try   /msg alis list *storage*
11:10 < GNU\colossus> (and other terms that seem relevant to you)
11:11 < GNU\colossus> people concerned with ceph, glusterfs, lvm et al. might be interested in talking about that topic
11:11 < mavorsa> in my settings editor, it is showing that the wallpaper file is changing for it.
11:13 < mavorsa> brb, gonna restart session and see if wallpaper changes
11:13 < JamesZhu> I could not join "##storage"
11:13 < JamesZhu> nvm, i'm in that channel, but only 7 people
11:14 < JamesZhu> :)
11:20 < mzaza> I have disk space filled up, but I have no idea what is using it. https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/FPhdCXB2VX/
11:21 < mavorsa> so, apparently, xfdesktop has full control over the wallpaper. im not sure how i can override it
11:21 < Night_Elf> mzaza: du -h --max-depth=1 ./
11:21 < Night_Elf> That will start from the current directory and will tell you how much space each other directory there is occupying.
11:22 < tneva82> Hello. More configuration questions. /etc/httpd/conf.d/django.conf file I tried adding listen 9500 and <VirtualHost *:9500> lines and set up as before using previous instances(that hosting company had set up). Port number I just pulled out of my head setting for number between previous 2. It complained however that no listening sockets available. Guess I would need to open port for listening?
11:22 < tneva82> Where on server I could do that or is that in firewall which basically means I need to request hosting company to do it for us?
11:22 < Night_Elf> You can also place some other directory instead of ./  such as for example /var/log
11:25 < TyrfingMjolnir> Which files will "find . -atime +90" show me?
11:25 < geirha> files with access time older than 90 days
11:26 < djph> anything starting in the current directory that was last accessed ... 30 months ago
11:26 < djph> *3 months ago
11:28 < TyrfingMjolnir> This is on ext4
11:28 < TyrfingMjolnir> Which other options are there than ctime and atime?
11:28 < nekoexmachina> $man find ?
11:28 < mzaza> Night_Elf: Same info as the ones pasted above, Still I can't figuire what's taking all of that.
11:29 < nekoexmachina> man find|grep time works too
11:29 < TyrfingMjolnir> There appears to be no creation time
11:29 < Night_Elf> mzaza: that's odd
11:31 < mzaza> Night_Elf: Yes, and that's not the first time it happens.
11:31 < Night_Elf> mzaza: Maybe there's some mountpoint in your system that is full and when you mount, du shows the space of the mounted filesystem and not what the mountpoint itself contains ?
11:32 < nekoexmachina> TyrfingMjolnir: you can use -newer options to get that
11:32 < nekoexmachina> find -type f -newerct date_time ! -newerct date_time+1_day will find files which perms have changed from date_time to date_time+1
11:33 < nekoexmachina> if you didnt' change perms by hand it is creation date as well
11:33 < mzaza> Night_Elf: Can I check on the partition itself, it's /dev/xvda1?
11:40 < Night_Elf> mzaza: are there any mountpoints you use in the filesystem ?
11:43 < mzaza> Night_Elf: I am on AWS instance by the way, if that gives you any clue to anything :D
11:43 < mzaza> Night_Elf: no
11:46 < Night_Elf> Strange
11:48 < Night_Elf> mzaza: if it happened before, what was the cause of it ?
11:49 < jason85> How do I run a gtk application without a desktop environment?
11:50 < pingfloyd> like you do any other time
11:50 < likcoras> jason85: install X, run application
11:50 < pingfloyd> whether you have a DE installed or not doesn't matter for that
11:50 < revel> You don't need a desktop environment for GTK, do you? Just X.
11:50 < jason85> Thanks, didn't know it was that easy :)
11:51 < Night_Elf> Or connect remotely via ssh and run it redirected, maybe ?
11:51 < pingfloyd> the application you're trying to run just need its dependencies installed
11:52 < pingfloyd> Night_Elf: DE is basically a WM, bunch of extra daemons, and a bunch of apps bundled (many gtk+ based).
11:52 < pingfloyd> jason85: ^
11:53 < pingfloyd> when you frankenstein a GUI together, you're basically constructing a custom DE
11:54 < pingfloyd> linux is for mad scientists!
11:54 < mzaza> Night_Elf: I don't know :D but a reboot solved the problem
11:54 < pingfloyd> mzaza: sometimes it's the shortest fix
11:55 < mzaza> pingfloyd: Yes :D, but it's a production server and I want to avoid this problem in the future. It brings the whole server down.
11:56 < pingfloyd> of course
11:56 < pingfloyd> mzaza: if a reboot fixed it though, it suggests the system was in an iffy state
11:57 < pingfloyd> one thing to do is note the date and time when the problem started.  Then you can look in all the logs around that time for any clues.
12:00 < pingfloyd> that might help give an idea what proc(es) were having issues.  If it happens again, you can take a closer look at those next time, as well as an idea of which one you may need to restart instead of resorting to a reboot.
12:00 < pingfloyd> s/one/one(s)/
12:04 < rosco> Do you know a good way to keep a clean environment for building rpms? Maybe a container system?
12:05 < MrElendig> there are various tools to automagically build in a container/chroot
12:05 < MrElendig> that is how the distro packages are made
12:06 < MrElendig> see the devtools for your target distro
12:09 < pingfloyd> rosco: usually your dist will have an intended method
12:12 < Blinky_> morning all.  I am rsyncing a loads of directories and files to a second server but need to preserve all the dates on the files and folders.  I am using "-arhz" and that is preserving the files date but all the folders are being set to todays date.  Is there any way of preserving the folder dates as
12:12 < Blinky_> well?
12:17 < ne2k> Blinky_, -a implies -r, so you don't need -r as well. -a implies -t and so should preserve the modification times. you can exclude dir from times with -O, you're not accidentally setting -O, are you?
12:18 < ananke> Blinky_: -z often results in a lousy performance. unless you really need to save on network traffic, I would skip that
12:19 < ne2k> Blinky_, are you seeing this behaviour during the run, or is still like that when it finishes? does the filesystem you're writing to support changing the mtime of a directory? (try doing it manually with touch -mt and see if it works)
12:20 < ne2k> Blinky_, try switching on verbose output and see what you get
12:23 < pingfloyd> -a also covers preserving mtimes
12:24 < ne2k> pingfloyd, I said that
12:24 < ne2k> [11:17] <ne2k> Blinky_, ... -a implies -t and so should preserve the modification times.
12:26 < mawk> hi
12:26 < mawk> you solved the pulseaudio issue ne2k ?
12:26 < ne2k> mawk, yep, just needed to disable PrivateNetwork for rtkit using a dropin
12:26 < ne2k> I think it's an ubuntu packaging bug, really
12:27 < ne2k> forums suggest lxc are denying responsibility
12:27 < mawk> rtkit inside the container ?
12:27 < ne2k> yes. as far as I can tell, the real issue is that rtkit tries to use a private network namespace for additional security, but within a container, it can't do that because you can't nest namespaces. or you can't the way I have lxc set up anyway
12:28 < mawk> yeah
12:28 < mawk> well you can nest namespaces if you have enough privileges in the enclosing namespace
12:28 < mawk> which you don't have with LXC
12:28 < mawk> but it's doable
12:29 < ne2k> this approach appears to be much more straightforward
12:29 < mawk> you'd need to disable apparmor and you already have enough namespace capabilities, and for a full blown container the enclosing container will need to be privileged
12:29 < mawk> yeah
12:29 < mawk> indeed
12:29 < mawk> and more secure
12:29 < Blinky_> Sorry guys, I have just tried using -t and it is still setting the directory datetime to today
12:30 < Blinky_> I have checked the source server and the dates on the folders are all different, just when it gets to the new server they are all set to today.  I am not using -O either
12:30 < pingfloyd> what's FS is on the destination?
12:30 < veridiam> alias |grep rsync
12:31 < Kingsy> anyone had experience with getting pulse audio to work over a network?
12:31 < ne2k> Blinky_, can pastebin the output of t=$(mktemp -d); mkdir $t; stat $t; touch -mt 0101010101 $t; stat $t; rmdir $t; on the target machine?
12:31 < ne2k> by target I mean the machine where you are writing the files to
12:31 < ne2k> veridiam++
12:32 < Kingsy> paplay -s 10.8.0.10:4713 a2002011001-e02.wav is how I am trying to connect to pulse audio and I am getting Connection failure: Access denied back, however I can telnet into that host on that port.
12:32 < Blinky_> ne2k, What does that do?
12:32 < Kingsy> any ideas welcome :)
12:32 < ne2k> Blinky_, does the test I asked you to do and you didn't do ;-)
12:32 < ne2k> Blinky_, caveat paster
12:33 < CyberCr33p> Does any SSH client interface exist like this: https://image.ibb.co/ceFHkJ/Screen_Shot_2018_06_19_at_13_31_19.png ? To support multi-tabs and also allow to type 1 command and send it to all tabs?
12:35 < djph> CyberCr33p: not that I'm aware of.
12:35 < Blinky_> ne2k, https://paste.linux.community/view/486b48e5
12:36 < ne2k> Blinky_, hm. I should have said to do it in the location you're trying to write to
12:36 < Blinky_> I did it in the destination directory I am writting too.
12:38 < ne2k> Blinky_, t=$(mktemp -d -p /path/we/are/writing/to); mkdir $t; stat $t; touch -mt 0101010101 $t; stat $t; rmdir $t
12:38 < ne2k> Blinky_, no, mktemp makes a file in /tmp. I made a booboo. try that instead
12:39 < ne2k> *some assembly required*
12:42 < Blinky_> ne2k, https://paste.linux.community/view/6de1e69c
12:53 < eset> I have two entries in /etc/sudoers.d/potsgres -> dev  ALL=(postgres) NOPASSWD: /bin/bash and under neath dev  ALL=NOPASSWD: /bin/systemctl restart postgresql.service and I get on dev user Sorry, user dev is not allowed to execute '/bin/systemctl restart postgresql' as root on localhost.
12:56 < Sitri> You're missing the .service
12:58 < eset> Sitri: yeah, facepalm :/ sorry
13:18 < TheDcoder> Is anyone familiar with perf report?
13:19 < TheDcoder> I am trying to debug my desktop environment and a functions seems to be on top of the CPU usage
13:19 < TheDcoder> https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/nGf2o5YkVYqHVH98A21qOA
13:20 < Lope> Gnome 3 sucks. What's a decent DE I can install on Ubuntu 18.04?
13:20 < TheDcoder> But I am not sure if I am correct because I never used perf before
13:20 < epicmetal> Lope: it depends on your needs and tastes
13:20 < TheDcoder> Lope: Try the other *buntu distros and choose your favourite
13:20 < epicmetal> Lope: the other major DE is Plasma
13:21 < Lope> Gnome 3 has almost no options nor functionality. I want a power user type of DE. I'd also like taskbars with window lists for each monitor
13:22 < Lope> do you mean kde-plasma-desktop?
13:22 < epicmetal> Lope: not sure what the Ubuntu package name is, but yeah probably
13:22 < epicmetal> Lope: if you've only just installed, you're probably better off reinstalling with the Kubuntu ISO for cleanliness
13:22 < Lope> epicmetal: surely I can just apt-get remove --purge gnome3 ?
13:22 < epicmetal> Although it depends on how well Ubuntu package/configure stuff
13:23 < epicmetal> Lope: that would only remove the top level metapackage
13:23 < Lope> I've had multiple DE's before, ubuntu handled it fine
13:23 < Lope> yes, then apt-get autoremove
13:23 < epicmetal> It'll handle it, but you might have stuff in /etc/xdg or whatever that bugs you
13:23 < Lope> it's probably only a few MB
13:24 < Lope> What about XFCE?
13:24 < Lope> Power user vibe, or not?
13:24 < epicmetal> Lope: sort of...
13:24 < revel> Do you want to be one or look like one?
13:24 < Lope> I was very happy with mate, which is a fork of gnome 2
13:24 < Lope> revel: work like one
13:25 < epicmetal> Lope: so why not continue with MATE then
13:26 < epicmetal> Lope: you basically just have to pick the set of bugs that you're happy with ;)
13:27 < Lope> mate allows taskbars for each monitor with a window list of only the windows on it's specific monitor. Mint mate had the mint menu, which was a search based app launcher. Some of the settings of mate (gnome2) I had to set using dconf or gconf or whatever. Then of course you can set keyboard shortcuts to launch programs or scripts (which probably any DE can do)
13:27 < Lope> But the version of mate that's available for ubuntu doesn't have the mint-menu
13:28 < epicmetal> Lope: apt-get install mate-menu ?
13:28 < Lope> The mate menu is not the mint menu.
13:28 < epicmetal> Oh
13:28 < Lope> mate menu just lists app in a static way that you have to configure with .application files.
13:29 < Lope> the mint menu is basically the mate menu plus a search based app launcher.
13:29 < epicmetal> Ok so "matemenu" got dropped from 18.xx?
13:29 < Lope> I used mate-desktop on Ubuntu 16.04. It was okay, but not so great without mintmenu of course.
13:29 < epicmetal> Hmm yeah
13:29 < Lope> mintmenu, not mate menu.
13:29 < Lope> Mintmenu is the one that came with linux mint with the search based app launcher.
13:29 < epicmetal> Sorry yeah
13:29 < epicmetal> I'm asleep
13:30 < epicmetal> Wait, mate-menu is a fork of MintMenu, at least in the Arch repos
13:30 < Lope> No worries. There are other search based app launcher things you can install but I didn't get around to finding and installing a decent one. There was one based on node.js that I thought looked cool, but then it had bugs and I wasn't bothered to persevere at the time.
13:31 < Lope> Weird.
13:31 < epicmetal> I've used mate-menu on Arch and it definitely has search
13:31 < Lope> But I don't sense much development for mate.
13:31 < Lope> Interesting, okay I'll give it a go on ubuntu 18.04 also.
13:31 < hendrix> yeah, IIRC mate-menu in opensuse is basically mintmenu
13:31 < Lope> But I'm keen to try out kde-plasma
13:32 < epicmetal> Lope: you'll love Plasma if you can handle the bugs
13:32 < hendrix> kde and xfce are fine too
13:32 < Lope> So does plasma mean it's all fancy pants like cinnamon? So it rapes your GPU on every click?
13:32 < epicmetal> (although the same can be said for any desktop really)
13:32 < GNU\colossus> has gvfs performance always been this _abysmal_? I'm on a ~100mbit link with <10ms RTT. listing a directory with ~1000 inodes in it takes around 0.02s on the server. listing the same directory over a GVFS mount takes _twenty seconds_.
13:32 < Lope> Is there a KDE without plasma?
13:32 < epicmetal> Lope: it's fancy but you can run it minimal-ish
13:32 < hendrix> Lope: you can disable about all effects and fanciness if you want
13:33 < Lope> hendrix: nice.
13:33 < epicmetal> Lope: no, unless you get Trinity DE which is KDE 3
13:33 < hendrix> kde on my machines runs much higher frame rate than gnome 3/cinnamon
13:33 < Sitri> GNU\colossus: what protocol?
13:33 < epicmetal> hendrix: I can vouch for that
13:33 < Lope> should I use gdm3 or sddm?
13:33 < epicmetal> gnome has known performance issues
13:33 < epicmetal> Lope: sddm if you're using Plasma
13:34 < GNU\colossus> Sitri, CIFS. gvfs mounts it with an "smb-share"-prefix. It's using IPv6.
13:34 < Lope> Gnome3 has the functionality of a cut-down android install.
13:34 < hendrix> I've i5 but gnome animations look like they are 30fps
13:34 < Lope> Gnome3 is like a donkey with makeup. Dumb and pretty.
13:35 < Lope> Thanks epicmetal
13:35 < revel> And great in bed.
13:35 < epicmetal> Lope: gnome does a few things fairly well, it is just limited in a few ways, and slow
13:35 < epicmetal> hahaah
13:35 < hendrix> doesn't ubuntu mate also have brisk menu or fork of it
13:35 < Lope> hendrix: never heard of that
13:35 < buoyantair> Guys, how do I install docker on manjaro?
13:35 < buoyantair> https://docs.docker.com/install/#supported-platforms
13:35 < Lope> Yes, there's mate-applet-brisk-menu
13:36 < buoyantair> I cant find a desktop edition for docker ce
13:36 < epicmetal> Lope: yw
13:36 < Lope> hendrix: will try it.
13:37 < hendrix> it may be under different name
13:37 < epicmetal> assuming kde doesn't butcher plasma with some new major release, it'll be the #1 desktop for linux Real Soon Now
13:37 < Sitri> GNU\colossus: haven't used it in a while, but IIRC samba isn't very fast.  Try using something else?
13:37 < hendrix> https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/ubuntu-mate-bionic-final-release/ "We have... updated Brisk Menu"
13:37 < GNU\colossus> Sitri, samba is not the bottleneck.
13:38 < epicmetal> they just need to not break stuff
13:38 < epicmetal> if they do, they're doomed
13:38 < hendrix> "traditional layout with the menu-bar (Applications, Places, System) replaced by Brisk Menu."
13:38 < epicmetal> also, there was some scary yet unconfirmed data loss bug with plasma
13:39 < epicmetal> https://old.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/1ak1lz/psa_dolphin_exhibits_data_loss_do_not_use_it_for/
13:39 < epicmetal> so you basically Can't Have Nice Things, Ever
13:42 < MrElendig> buoyantair: pacman -Ss docker
13:42 < buoyantair> MrElendig: Thanks! I found a wiki article on it :D https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Docker
13:43 < buoyantair> :D
13:45 < paul424> Hello, I am looking for some linux IRC client
13:45 < kingrodian> irssi is cool
13:45 < paul424> It should always remember the messages history
13:45 < paul424> and run in GUI
13:45 < kingrodian> oh
13:45 < epicmetal> paul424: hexchat
13:46 < paul424> hexchat : I tried that but it does not rembmeber the messages
13:46 < paul424> naah BLB
13:46 < epicmetal> paul424: did you enable logging?
13:46 < ne2k> paul424, I use xchat-gnome, it's pretty good
13:46 < epicmetal> paul424: it's in prefs
13:46 < paul424> epicmetal: no ...
13:46 < paul424> epicmetal: I would try , later
13:46 < epicmetal> iirc it's on by defaul
13:46 < paul424> ok thanks bye
13:46 < ne2k> kthxbai
13:47 < ne2k> ;-)
14:01 < no_gravity> In the "Displays" manager, I can only set a resolution up to 1680x1050. But I suspect the monitor can run a higher resolution. Is there a way I can try 1920x1080?
14:01 < GNU\colossus> http://paste.debian.net/plainh/c4eff606 - this is how broken gvfs acts in my setup. I have no idea why. :/
14:03 < no_gravity> Should I try this? xrandr -s 1920x1080
14:05 < no_gravity> I will try it ...
14:05 < no_gravity> pfff "Size 1920x1080 not found in available modes"
14:07 < King_DuckZ> sorry if it's OT but I think this concerns us all - https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/free-software-is-at-risk-in-the-eu-take-action-now the deadline is tomorrow, so please take a moment to read some info and sign the petition now if you didn't do it already
14:21 < hans_> what is awk doing here?   sudo apt-get remove --purge `dpkg --get-selections | grep i386 | awk '{print $1}'`
14:22 < revel> Just printing the first word in each line.
14:22 < mavorsa> its printing money, duh
14:22 < revel> lol
14:22 < dnanib> It is the grep that is superfluous
14:22 < hans_> oh, so in other words, it removes anything except the first word of each line?
14:23 < dnanib> dpkg --get-selections | awk '/i386/ {print $1}'
14:23 < revel> So, it finds all the i386 stuff and prints the first word, which I assume will end up being all of the i386 packages.
14:23 < hans_> kk
14:24 < no_gravity> I'm trying to set the resolution of a Flatron E2210PM-BN monitor to 1920x1080.
14:24 < no_gravity> Any ideas how to go about it?
14:25 < mavorsa> use a hammer? :P
14:25 < revel> Make sure you have your drivers_
14:25 < escalion> no_gravity: you looked at xrandr?
14:26 < revel> ?
14:26 < mavorsa> (dont mind me, in a silly mood from lack of sleep)
14:26 < no_gravity> escalion: Yeah, I tried some mode lines but they did not work.
14:29 < BluesKaj> Hi folks
14:30 < lilltiger_> King_DuckZ: I dont see a petition to sign on that link
14:30 < escalion> no_gravity: your displays max res is 1280x1024
14:32 < revel> This Romanian site seems to claim its max is 1920x1080 https://www.compari.ro/monitoare-c3126/lg/e2210pm-bn-p49805536/
14:32 < no_gravity> escalion: Why do you think so? It's currently 1680x1050 and the specs say it supports 1920x1080.
14:33 < MrElendig> better to see the actual datasheet than some random comparason site
14:33 < lilltiger_> But Romanian sites are so trustworthy!
14:33 < MrElendig> how is the monitor connected?
14:34 < MrElendig> damn lg are running their servers on a piece of string
14:34 < revel> Well, the monitor names are quite cryptic, so he could've found the data for a different one. And I assume no_gravity has some better data.
14:34 < MrElendig> 38 seconds to download a 1.4mb pdf
14:34 < no_gravity> MrElendig: Via VGA-out to a vga->mini-display-port adapter.
14:34 < solidfox> MrElendig, lmao, not a potato but a piece of string
14:34 < MrElendig> no_gravity: do you only have vga out?
14:35 < MrElendig> also, data sheet says 1680x1050
14:35 < revel> solidfox: Yeah, their network cable is a wet piece of string :D
14:35  * azarus uses both VGA and DVI on his current monitors, but a new, better one will arrive tomorrow and I'll use DP
14:35 < no_gravity> the monitor also has dvi-d.
14:35 < dogbert_2> no_gravity, the max resolution on that monitor is 1280x1024 @ 75Hz...per the pdf
14:35 < MrElendig> but what *output* do you have
14:35 < solidfox> revel, lolol
14:35 < dogbert_2> you won't get anymore out of it
14:36 < MrElendig> dogbert_2: eh the lg pdf I found says 1680x1050
14:36 < no_gravity> Well, I'm giving up on it. I think it only supports 1680x1050.
14:36 < dogbert_2> and that's from LG itself
14:36 < MrElendig> same here
14:36 < King_DuckZ> lilltiger_: you have to go to the MEP list and send an email to the ones that represent your country
14:36 < revel> So, three conflicting numbers.
14:36 < dogbert_2> http://www.lg.com/uk/support/support-product/lg-E2210PM-BN
14:36 < dogbert_2> that's from LG itself
14:36 < MrElendig> links to file:///home/oh/Nedlastingar/E2210PM-Spec.pdf
14:37 < MrElendig> er bad url
14:37 < revel> lol
14:37 < MrElendig> http://www.lg.com/uk/products/documents/E2210PM-Spec.pdf
14:37 < MrElendig> stupid chrome messing up the clipboard
14:37 < escalion> the lg pdf I found stated 1280x1024 I clearly just found the wrong one :)
14:37 < lilltiger_> King_DuckZ: I was about to, then I read that he will oppose it.
14:37 < MrElendig> no_gravity: what *output* do you have available?
14:37 < escalion> but long&short if you made a modeline and it didn't work, it's not supported
14:38 < dogbert_2> the 2210 is VESA 1680 x 1050 @60 Hz
14:38 < no_gravity> MrElendig: Mini-Display-Port
14:38 < King_DuckZ> lilltiger_: who?
14:38 < MrElendig> use that instead of vga
14:38 < MrElendig> vga is just horrible
14:38 < King_DuckZ> lilltiger_: ah your representative?
14:38 < MrElendig> (and breaks edid)
14:39 < no_gravity> MrElendig: The monitor needs VGA *input*.
14:39 < dogbert_2> you wanna use DVI-D if at all possible or HDMI
14:39 < dogbert_2> then you
14:39 < no_gravity> MrElendig: So I have a converter in the middle.
14:39 < MrElendig> you said it had dvi
14:39 < Reventlov> do VGA supports hotplug?
14:39 < Reventlov> :>
14:39 < Lope> I'm busy trying out kde-plasma on ubuntu 18.04. It's very nice!
14:39 < azarus> Reventlov: sure
14:39 < MrElendig> Reventlov: yes
14:39 < dogbert_2> your stuck at 1280x1024
14:39 < lilltiger_> King_DuckZ: yes
14:39 < MrElendig> no_gravity: the manual also says it has dvi
14:39 < MrElendig> no_gravity: so go mini-dp -> dvi
14:40 < dogbert_2> when I bought my monitor, I made sure the video card would support it
14:40 < no_gravity> MrElendig: My theory now is that the monitor only supports 1680x1050.
14:40 < Reventlov> I think the standard says nothing about hotplug
14:40 < Reventlov> but it's supported usually.
14:40 < MrElendig> no_gravity: correct, but you will also avoid a lot of problems if you use the dvi in instead of going trough vga
14:41 < MrElendig> no_gravity: you will not have to make a modeline etc
14:41 < MrElendig> no_gravity: and you will get better picture quality
14:41 < no_gravity> Well, I'm only using this monitor today.
14:41 < reynierpm> hello there, I am having an issue while self-updating my composer installation and I don't like what I have found so far. First of all I am running composer as the vagrant user but such user can't update the composer executable at "/usr/local/bin/composer". I have tried with sudo composer self-update but for some reason I got this error "sudo: composer: command not found"
14:41 < MrElendig> can pick up a mini-dp -> dvi cable for 5-10€
14:41 < reynierpm> I have read some recommendations and one of them says to add vagrant to the root group which I don't think is a good idea what would you suggest me on this case?
14:42 < MrElendig> converters costs about the same if you already have a dvi-d cable
14:42  * MrElendig generally prefers cables to converters
14:42 < MrElendig> specially for mini-dp, which is somewhat fragile
14:43  * hans_ bought 10x usb extension cables for a project, only to realize that it created too much signal noise, so had to buy 10x longer usb cables therafter
14:44 < hans_> ...from a chinese shop with no return policy~
14:44 < MrElendig> you can get more reliable usb cables for cheap
14:44 < Dominian>  /12
14:48 < MrElendig> hans_: how long did you need?
14:48 < notmike> MrElendig: what up fam
14:48 < MrElendig> hans_: anything over 5 meters requires an active cable
14:49 < MrElendig> (up to 20 or so meters)
14:49 < MrElendig> they basically have a hub chip at every 5 meter interval
14:51 < hans_> the original cables were about 50 cm, i needed about 100 cm in total, the extension cables were 150 cm,  50+150 didn't work out, bought 180cm cables now
14:51 < MrElendig> must have been really crap cables
14:51 < MrElendig> as expected from the random chinesium ones :)
14:52 < hans_> sigh, i guess
14:52 < MrElendig> but seriously, you can eg get cloth covered deltaco cables for <3.5€ each, so there isn't really any good reason to go with the chinese ones
14:53 < mcj> Hey, does anyone know why Samba has trouble sharing an external drive? I have set the mount point to /media/usr/Archive and set no authentication
14:54 < toffe> Does it work with an internal folder?
14:54 < mcj> I can see the folder, but I can't write
14:54 < hans_> think there's any hope for these cables? (1.8m usb3) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/QGeeM-USB-3-0-cable-Super-Speed-USB-3-0-A-Male-to-Male-USB-Extension/32787783151.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.24a94c4d4ykSkY
14:54 < toffe> Might be shared as read only?
14:54 < mcj> I have 3 shares I would like to access. Two are drives, one just a folder in the user
14:54 < MrElendig> forget aliexpress
14:54 < MrElendig> *specially* for usb 3
14:55 < toffe> read only = no
14:55 < toffe> add to smb.conf as a config for each share
14:55 < mcj> That param has been set, along with force user = nobody, browsable = yes
14:55 < MrElendig> hans_: and you could buy from a reputable store for the same price
14:55 < mcj> I just want anyone who connects to our home wifi to have access to these without password. It seems Samba has trouble doing this
14:55 < toffe> Restarted smbd after that?
14:55 < mcj> Yes I did
14:56 < toffe> Hmm, usually works out of the box for me, any logs?
14:56 < mcj> I'm going to try again tonight toffe
14:56 < MrElendig> hans_: which country are you in?
14:57 < mcj> Was hoping maybe there was something that I was missing
14:57 < hans_> MrElendig, Norway
14:57 < toffe> mcj: public = yes, guest ok = yes
14:57 < azarus> mcj: checked logs, permissions?
14:57 < mcj> Oooh, that public setting may be the culprit
14:57 < toffe> guest account = nobody
14:57 < toffe> guest only = yes
14:57 < toffe> have these?
14:57 < MrElendig> hans_: just buy from multicom, they are the only ones with sane prices on cables :po
14:58 < MrElendig> hans_: 45nok for 1.8m m-m
14:58 < toffe> Not a bad price =)
14:58 < MrElendig> https://www.multicom.no/kabler-overganger/cat-l/c100116
14:59 < MrElendig> hans_: I bought a dp->hdmi cable from them, 106nok, second cheapest store was 200+, elkjøp/power/etc wanted 400! for the same cable
15:00 < toffe> Retailstores like Elkjøp and Power have most of their profit on cables. Multicom, komplett e.c. have more on the computerparts :)
15:00 < MrElendig> komplett wanted 200+
15:02 < MrElendig> currently komplett wants 350 >_>
15:02 < toffe> ewww. bad komplett
15:03 < hans_> any idea what the difference between these are? they're all 1m http://www.deltaco.eu/en/Pages/SearchResults.aspx?k=USB3%2D210
15:04 < MrElendig> the colour and gold plated or not
15:04 < hans_> is there any actual benefit of gold plating, or does it just look cool?
15:04 < MrElendig> actually, probably just the colour and packaging
15:05 < MrElendig> hans_: more reliable connection, in most cases it doesn't matter
15:05 < MrElendig> just buy the cheapest one you find on multicom :p
15:06 < hans_> gotcha
15:07 < MrElendig> I like the deltaco prime just because of the stiffer cable, but that can ofcourse be a downside too
15:09 < hans_> .. but in theory, gold plating is somehow supposed to make a better connection than non-gold-plating?
15:11 < mquin> lower resistence, but it's pretty negligable
15:11 < MrElendig> actually higher resistance
15:12 < MrElendig> but, less corrosion, also mechanically better than some other plating, specially on card edge connectors
15:12 < mquin> it also doesn't oxidize, which can help with longivity
15:12 < hans_> kk
15:12 < MrElendig> oxide free cu/cu would give a lower resistance
15:13 < MrElendig> but cu oxides really fast so ...
15:13 < mquin> I've got some old hardware with tinned edge connectors thay have gotten pretty tempremental
15:13 < MrElendig> not all gold plating are made the same either, many are *really* thin and wears out fast
15:14 < MrElendig> typical on chinesium gold plated stuff
15:16 < MrElendig> had some banana plugs that didn't even last 5 insertions before it was worn off
15:16 < hans_> but only chinesium cables can pee! https://i.imgur.com/9T0LRcp.png
15:16 < Psi-Jack> Heh, chinesium.
15:16 < Psi-Jack> hans_: Heh, nice.
15:17 < MrElendig> that explains the smell of some of them :p
15:17 < widp> I have an application which needs to fetch a large amount of ".desktop" files(desktop entries)
15:17 < hans_> idd
15:17 < hans_> widp, neat
15:17 < widp> it runs slow because of whenever I launch it because of caching.
15:17 < widp> What can I do to make sure that this doesn't happen.
15:17 < MrElendig> widp: should only be slow on first run, unless you run out of ram
15:18 < MrElendig> the kernel will cache file access
15:18 < MrElendig> you could always keep your own cache too, in a more efficient format than the .desktop files
15:18 < MrElendig> so you don't have to parse them every time
15:19 < widp> MrElendig: The application that's causing problems is rofi, an application launcher.
15:19 < widp> How do I go about fixing this?
15:19 < MrElendig> rofi should cache itself
15:20 < widp> huh, what do you mean?
15:20 < MrElendig> it uses XDG_USER_CACHE
15:21 < widp> strange, that variable is not set to anything on my system
15:21 < azarus> widp: if it is not set it defaults to ~/.cache
15:21 < azarus> (i believ)
15:21 < azarus> believe*
15:21 < Psi-Jack> Man, I still cannot believe this. Work computer with chrome open with about 20 tabs, Rambox (electron app), hexchat, evolution, and other various apps... And it's only using 2GB RAM. And in this case, there's barely any cache too.
15:21 < MrElendig> er.. XDG_CACHE_HOME
15:22 < MrElendig> widp: that is correct
15:22 < MrElendig> widp: it should not be set unless you want to override the default, which is $HOME/.cache
15:22 < MrElendig> there was a bug where rofi would not create .cache if it wasn't present, but that was fixed ages ago
15:22 < widp> I see
15:23 < MrElendig> which version of rofi are you using?
15:23 < widp> 1.5.0
15:24 < MrElendig> https://github.com/DaveDavenport/rofi/issues/670
15:24 < widp> yeah, I looked at that issue.
15:24 < widp> and have trying to find a fix.
15:25 < hans_> oh god, AliExpress, a website where most sellers are chinese, does not support chinese characters in messages o.o
15:25 < MrElendig> widp: you could put the rofi cache on a tmpfs
15:26 < MrElendig> hans_: should do utf8
15:26 < hans_> and instead of actually adding support for utf-8, they just documented their lack of chinese support. https://service.alibaba.com/buyer/faq_detail/20111719.htm
15:26 < MrElendig> hmm
15:26 < widp> how would I go about doing that?
15:26 < MrElendig> I get messages from sellers in utf8 all the time
15:26 < hans_> weird
15:26 < hans_> >  When you are sending messages using the “Contact Supplier” button, the system may inform you that Chinese characters are not supported. If this is the case, do not enter Chinese characters.
15:27 < MrElendig> mount -t tmpfs ....
15:27  * MrElendig runs off to torture his cat
15:27 < hans_> dafuq
15:27 < hans_> MrElendig, cat is not for torture!
15:27 < Psi-Jack> hans_: Heh
15:27 < escalion> ssh root@MrElendig
15:27 < MrElendig> he was in a fight last night and now smells really bad, so off to the shower
15:27 < escalion> rm -rf /
15:28 < hans_> ohhh, oki, carry on
15:28 < MrElendig> escalion: http://arch.har-ikkje.net/gfx/rm-rf.jpg
15:28 < Psi-Jack> escalion: Keep in mind, stating such a command here is not funny. It's usually insta-banned for it.
15:28 < hans_> MrElendig, rm -rf / --no-preserve-root    (BUT DO NOT ACTUALLY WRITE IT)
15:28 < Psi-Jack> hans_: Same to you ^
15:29 < azarus> or, let's be concise: "rm -rf /*"
15:29  * Armand bans hans_ 
15:29 < Psi-Jack> azarus: And you too ^
15:29 < escalion> I omitted --no-preserve-root intentionally in response to torturing a poor kitten xD
15:30 < azarus> Psi-Jack: because of stupid people that go "lol let's run this"
15:30 < azarus> ?
15:30 < Psi-Jack> azarus: Because this is a help channel, and that's not helpful. Ever.
15:30 < azarus> might be
15:30 < hans_> Psi-Jack, how else do you clear out a chroot?
15:30 < azarus> what if you need to trash your OS as quick as possible?
15:30 < azarus> legit use case
15:30  * epicmetal stifles a giggle
15:30 < Psi-Jack> hans_: You remove it, which wouldn't be / now would it? :p
15:31 < hans_> clear it, without removing it?
15:31 < azarus> (btw, before trashing a chroot, make sure nothing's mounted under it x_X )
15:31 < hans_> hehe oki
15:32 < escalion> hey at least we didnt change the dram voltages to absurd values
15:32 < epicmetal> I'm coming to the inescapable conclusion that all DEs suck, and you just need to painstakingly build your own environment from the smallest, simplest components possible
15:32 < escalion> epicmetal: ratpoison
15:32 < hans_> 1V then?
15:32 < azarus> dwm! :D
15:32 < Psi-Jack> twm!
15:32 < azarus> cwm!
15:32 < escalion> or i3
15:32 < Psi-Jack> NO wm!
15:33 < hans_> epicmetal, did you try xfce before concluding?
15:33 < ZzZombo> Hello. I recently installed Manjaro on my laptop. However, during the installation I was unable to set my partitions up the way I wanted. The installer didn't let me. So I ended up with a pretty small (5GB) partition for the OS.
15:33 < ZzZombo> Now, using gparted I tried to remedy that, by adjusting my 2d partition with lots of free space, and expanding my 5th partition with Manjaro, but it doesn't seem possible to expand across other partitions.
15:33 < epicmetal> hans_: currently on it
15:33 < escalion> xfce looks like it's the result of a childs crayon drawing
15:33 < ZzZombo> What can I do?
15:33 < escalion> ZzZombo: did you set up LVM?
15:34 < hans_> epicmetal, tried the Adwaita-dark theme? :p
15:34 < epicmetal> hans_: the clock doesn't update after resume. Found some forum post with a solution that requires shell scripting. Which I can do, but sheesh.
15:34 < epicmetal> hans_: it's not a matter of aesthetics, although they suck too
15:35 < hans_> hrm, resume clock works fine for me, debian 10 pre-release
15:35 < escalion> return 418;
15:35 < hans_> (but it worked all the way back to debian 8)
15:35 < epicmetal> hans_: currently using materia dark compact
15:35 < Psi-Jack> ZzZombo: Manjaro is always a bad idea, just fair warning.
15:35 < azarus> dwm is so cool, works just about everywhere where Xorg can run
15:36 < azarus> (with very little porting required)
15:36 < hans_> >Materia is based on Adwaita by GNOME.
15:36 < hans_> huh
15:37 < epicmetal> hans_: it's GTK, it works for Xfce
15:37 < epicmetal> And there's an xfwm4 theme for it
15:37 < ZzZombo> escalion, I don't know. I didn't do it personally though.
15:37 < epicmetal> It is buggy however, requires CSS in Firefox to fix colours
15:37 < escalion> ZzZombo: You're better off doing a fresh install if no LVM, and also manjaro is an awfully bad idea imho
15:38 < epicmetal> Friends don't let friends Manjaro
15:38 < hans_> epicmetal, they inherited that from Adwaita
15:38 < escalion> You'll have more luch with Arch
15:38 < ZzZombo> Why, can I ask?
15:38 < escalion> s/luch/luck
15:38 < hans_> (and apparently didn't fix it)
15:38 < epicmetal> hans_: I hadn't noticed that in Adwaita under GNOME
15:38 < Lope> Is there a way to force xrandr to display a signal on HDMI-1 even though it thinks it's disconnected?
15:38 < hans_> well, i have
15:38 < epicmetal> hans_: but I've seen the bug manifest in MATE and Xfce
15:38 < hans_> hrm wait
15:38 < hans_> im not sure
15:38 < hans_> nvm
15:39 < escalion> Manjaro is rolling release but it comes with its own configuration
15:39 < escalion> hence why I said you'll be better off with arch
15:39 < Psi-Jack> escalion: Yeah, but Arch isn't for newbies. :p
15:39 < escalion> Neither is Manjaro, really
15:39 < escalion> Stick to ubuntu or some derivative thereof such as zorin or elemental
15:39 < azarus> arch and manjaro break in the funniest ways in my experience, and they're nowhere near as lightweight as they are praised to be
15:39 < epicmetal> Actually Manjaro came in handy when I needed a very quick laptop build at work
15:40 < epicmetal> Arch is "simple", not lightweight
15:40 < azarus> epicmetal: agreed
15:40 < epicmetal> Although less simple with systemd
15:40 < azarus> even more agreed
15:40 < escalion> azarus: they can be as light as you want them to be. It just depends how experienced you are
15:40 < epicmetal> Now this burden has fallen to Void
15:40 < azarus> escalion: not really
15:41 < azarus> arch base is already heavy
15:41 < ZzZombo> Does Ubuntu come with Nvidia drivers?
15:41 < escalion> azarus: arch base isn't overly heavy. If you want lightweight go for DSL
15:41 < epicmetal> ZzZombo: Ubuntu comes with everything except security and a good looking default theme
15:41 < azarus> escalion: nah, i have alpine for that
15:41 < escalion> Alpine too
15:41 < escalion> I use alpine for all my build VMs
15:42 < ZzZombo> "except security", what do you mean?
15:42 < azarus> i use alpine for pretty much everything except my gaming pc
15:42 < azarus> which runs on gentoo
15:42 < epicmetal> ZzZombo: Canonical don't bother patching the majority of the OS
15:43 < epicmetal> azarus: I keep looking at and then rejecting Alpine for some reason. Besides the fact that it didn't boot the last time I tried it
15:43 < ZzZombo> And why would I want it then?
15:43 < epicmetal> ZzZombo: because everyone makes things work for it
15:44 < epicmetal> ZzZombo: same reason Android is popular, really
15:44 < epicmetal> Although Android has a good looking default theme
15:44 < Psi-Jack> epicmetal: What? While canonical may be the douche of douches in the Linux community, they do security updates.
15:44 < Psi-Jack> And what they don't do, Debian does. :p
15:44 < epicmetal> azarus: how do you find Alpine? Any insights/comparisons you can impart from extended use?
15:45 < epicmetal> Psi-Jack: Universe/Multiverse are a "community effort" last time I checked
15:45 < azarus> epicmetal: works just as expected. doesn't get in my way. very easy to develop and good and small community
15:45 < epicmetal> i.e. at the disctretion of the individual maintainer to patch
15:46 < escalion> ZzZombo: what's your use case?
15:46 < epicmetal> Psi-Jack: Debian doesn't patch Ubuntu repos. Not directly or timely at least
15:46 < Psi-Jack> They don't. Ubuntu just pulls their patches in.
15:47 < epicmetal> Psi-Jack: not for Universe/Multiverse for a released distro.
15:47 < Psi-Jack> And yeah, universe and multiverse, those obviously are not supported by Canonical.
15:47 < epicmetal> That's the problem, it's not obvious to newbies, who are arguably the target market
15:47 < Psi-Jack> And are unsupported by Canonical as a result.
15:47 < ZzZombo> I'm finding ways to jump off Windows 10.
15:47 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: found something you might interested in looking at, rolling release distro, but still it's interesting: https://www.voidlinux.eu/
15:47 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: can't really say 'found' someone I know told me about it
15:48 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: I've thought about it. But runit was a concern. I'm actually using Solus.
15:48 < epicmetal> Psi-Jack: what don't you like about runit? I'm considering moving to Void
15:48 < Psi-Jack> epicmetal: Because it's not systemd.
15:48 < azarus> runit is cool, but I'm more familiar to OpenRC, which is used in Alpine and Gentoo
15:49 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Just thought it was interesting it was a 'LFS" type thing, build from the ground up
15:49 < Psi-Jack> Yep. So was Solus, actually. :)
15:49 < azarus> Dominian: so is Alpine
15:49 < azarus> so is Gentoo
15:49 < azarus> there are many ;)
15:49 < Dominian> Very true
15:49 < Dominian> I stand corrected.
15:49 < Dominian> :)
15:50 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: But.. 2GB RAM used, with Chrome (~20 tabs), Rambox (electron app), hexchat, gnome-session stuff, budgie DE, synergy, evolution, etc..
15:50 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Note /used/
15:50 < kirk781> Electron apps are memory whores
15:50 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: this is with Solus?
15:50 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Yes.
15:51 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: On Arch, this same utilization was easily 8~16GB RAM /used.
15:51 < Psi-Jack> Fedora and openSUSE too.
15:51 < Dominian> heh
15:51 < Dominian> I wish I used Linux full time in my job, but alas I do not
15:52 < UserUS> Same, that'd be fun
15:52 < Psi-Jack> I used to not. My last job my "computer" was a MacBook Pro. Not anymore. Now I have a nice convertable laptop and powerful desktop. :)
15:52 < Psi-Jack> Both running Linux
15:53 < UserUS> Man, I work at an MSP, and they can't even wrap there heads around Mac
15:53 < Psi-Jack> MSP?
15:53 < UserUS> Managed service provider. Kinda like IT for hire
15:53 < Psi-Jack> Ahhh
15:53 < Dominian> It's the lastes buzz word Psi-Jack
15:53 < Dominian> :P
15:54 < Armand> UserUS: You called ?
15:54 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. I worked for a company, left it before the titanic sunk. Few months after I did, they fired their in-house engineers and moved to MSP.
15:54 < Armand> lol
15:54 < Psi-Jack> Offsite MS Exchange services. Yeah, that'll buff out.
15:54 < escalion> ZzZombo: Try Zorin or elemental first, then go from there :)
15:54 < UserUS> Psi-Jack, You ever work in house?
15:55 < Psi-Jack> I /only/ work in house. :p
15:55 < Psi-Jack> Or do you mean at home?
15:56 < tsglove> Anybody know of a PDF "type writer" program?  I know GIMP can write over PDFs, and LibreOffice Draw can do the same.  Yet looking for something more "PDF type writer"  and that's it.  Any suggestions?
15:56 < UserUS> Psi-Jack, interesting, how do you like it? I was thinking about switching. Yeah, in house, not at home haha
15:56 < Psi-Jack> Well, I mean, I've done it like, most of the time.
15:56 < Psi-Jack> Should say something.
15:56 < twainwek> tsglove: i think okular has some of that functionality iirc
15:57 < ZzZombo> escalion, did you mean Elementary?
15:57 < tsglove> twainwek, on my way to check it out.
15:57 < UserUS> Psi-Jack, how long you been there?
15:57 < tsglove> twainwek, your name reminds me of the mid-90s TWAIN scanners!
15:57 < twainwek> haha good catch
15:58 < Psi-Jack> UserUS: Where I am now? Only a few months. My last company I worked for exactly 3 years.
15:59 < escalion> ZzZombo: That would be the one
16:01 < Psi-Jack> Solitary: The thing about Solus is... It's specifically designed for Desktop use, with support for developer-supportive workstations. For example, they will not package postfix, but will package apache (because apache supports development)
16:01 < Psi-Jack> Err..
16:01 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Was meant for you ^
16:02 < Psi-Jack> Apparently I suddenly thought your nick was Solus, and tab completed to that other guy. :)
16:03 < Dominian> hehe
16:05 < Psi-Jack> That's pretty much something almost nobody does these days is desktop-optimized distros.
16:10 < azarus> -fomg-optimize
16:12 < post-factum> -fomg-optimize   Reduces a function into a pure set of nop's. -O100500 enables this by default.
16:13 < azarus> http://funroll-loops.info/
16:13 < azarus> http://funroll-loops.teurasporsaat.org/ *
16:17 < Lope> how can I use xmodmap to turn right shift into insert?
16:18 < c06> hi all
16:19 < benjwadams> What's the advantage of using `ed` over `sed`?
16:19 < c06> i have two machines both have dhcp server with different networks. i am creating VM and trying to get ip from dhcp server. but machines are conflicting when getting the ips
16:19 < Guest17347> hey, when I enter locale on my ubuntu 18.04 terminal, I was wondering if there should be quotation marks around the locales or not. Please see my output here: https://paste.linux.community/view/cb0986b5 I manually adjusted the LC_ALL and LANG locales
16:19 < Urchin> benjwadams: it's interactive
16:19 < benjwadams> I can't say I've gotten particularly deep in either, but definitely know more sed than ed
16:20 < benjwadams> Anything nontrivial i usually just end up writing something in python instead
16:20 < Urchin> benjwadams: to be fair, ed is these days mostly a historical curiosity
16:20 < Urchin> benjwadams: it would only be *needed* if you need to edit text on a computer with no screen involved
16:20 < benjwadams> was looking at this
16:21 < Urchin> benjwadams: ed is a text editor, not a programming language
16:21 < benjwadams> https://www.michaelwlucas.com/tools/ed
16:21 < Urchin> benjwadams: it was used on unix back when the main output was the teleprinter
16:21 < no_gravity> Sometimes my laptop takes ages to shut down. It seems to happen when I have logged into certain wifi spots while it was on. Any ideas to find out what is going on?
16:22 < benjwadams> Ok, what's the advantage of ed, over say, vim, which has a sizeable amount of ed for colon commands
16:22 < benjwadams> I feel bad.  Apparently I'm not a "real sysadmin" for not knowing ed
16:22 < benjwadams> according to that author
16:22 < sharp15> is there a filesystem that allows straigt forward removable devices but isn't FAT?  ext{2,3,4} didn't the last time i checked.
16:23 < azarus> sharp15: what?
16:23 < benjwadams> Probably still turing complete
16:23 < azarus> what are straight forward removable devices?
16:23 < benjwadams> there was that sed script that ran tetris
16:23 < Atque> no_gravity: When you shutdown your laptop, it sends kill signals to processes running on it. To fix your issue, I'd first check which processes are taking a long time to stop when the laptop shutdowns.
16:23 < sharp15> azarus: permissions confusion.
16:23 < post-factum> azarus: straight forward removable devices are the devices that cannot be removed straight backward
16:24 < sharp15> azarus: they use user numbers not user names.
16:24 < no_gravity> Atque: How do I find those processes?
16:25 < sharp15> sharp15: i'm sorry.  i'll stop being confusing.  ext-2,3,4 use user-numbers.  it means that you can only acquire read permissions for files if your user number matches on the second machine.
16:25 < sharp15> azarus: ^^
16:25 < Lope> `xmodmap -e "keysym Alt_R = Insert"` seems to work. But does anyone know why pressing Ctrl-Insert writes "5~" into my terminal. I don't want that.
16:25 < sharp15> i'll learn to type eventually.
16:27 < benjwadams> Wow, I actually know quite a bit of ed already from vim!
16:28 < sharp15> benjwadams: ed became vi which became vim.
16:29 < sharp15> benjwadams: visual mode was added to ed for vi and so on after.  enjoy.
16:29 < Urchin> sharp15: actually, vim was directly inspired by vi-like emacs, vile for short
16:30 < sharp15> Urchin: ok.  i'm certain about ed becoming vi at least.  not sure if you are making a joke or not.  there are still some heated debates related to vi/emacs.
16:30 < GunqqerFriithian> >not using nano
16:31 < Urchin> sharp15: there were debates between vi users and emacs users, but vim is closer in feature to emacs than vi back in the day
16:31 < Lope> I just switched to gnome-terminal. I'm feeling at home again.
16:31 < benjwadams> ed might yet be useful in some very minimal containers where vi/vim aren't bundled
16:31 < Urchin> sharp15: not to mention that those features did come from a version of emacs that was made to function like vi
16:31 < benjwadams> serious
16:32 < Urchin> even busybox manages to have vi
16:33 < killown> what is the best tool to run android apps on linux?
16:33 < benjwadams> I like to fantasize about situations where i need to use arcane, primitive technology
16:33 < sharp15> ok.  i'll try a different question.  does anyone know if btrfs is considered "stable" yet or should i stick with ext4?
16:33 < benjwadams> A man can dream
16:33 < revel> sharp15: By whom? It is according to some and definitely not according to others.
16:34 < Urchin> sharp15: XFS
16:34 < sharp15> benjwadams: you can always not bother with dreaming and do it for fun..  there are some pdp emulators and related chips around.
16:35 < sharp15> benjwadams: or come up with something more arcane than that if you wish.
16:41 < post-factum> sharp15: xfs
16:49 < Lope> I changed capslock into shift `xmodmap -e "keysym Caps_Lock = Shift_L"` that works nicely, now I want to make "Control_L Caps_Lock = Caps_Lock" ... Possible?
16:49 < napalmgrenade> Hey can anyone help me set my locales correctly, i'm trying to install oracle weblogic server
16:51 < napalmgrenade> I already tried manually editing the locale file, but when I type in the command locale, I'm seeing this: https://paste.linux.community/view/6432edd7
16:51 < napalmgrenade> concerned about the quotation marks surrounding some of the locales but not others...
17:00 < Psi-Jack> Heh, someone.. actually /wants/ to install weblogic?
17:02 < bb36e> perhaps they're being forced to
17:02 < bb36e> oracle has very sharp lawyers
17:04 < Psi-Jack> Well. Anyway. WebLogic is a propriatery product with a nice hefty licensing fee, but it comes with support. Support they can provide.
17:15 < funabashi> what is a small version of linux if i want to test some gui stuff?
17:15 < Lope> I've added another monitor to my computer but it didn't detect in the display manager (driver issue). I've forced the GPU to output on HDMI-1 and the monitor is functioning normally. Except xrandr is still falsely reporting HDMI-1 is disconnected, so my DE isn't letting me add panels to it etc.
17:15 < Psi-Jack> Linux is a kernel.
17:15 < Lope> Any ideas?
17:15 < twainwek> funabashi: define some gui stuff
17:16 < Psi-Jack> Lope: Have you tried turning it off and on again?
17:17 < funabashi> ok i want to test my touchpad. :p
17:17 < Psi-Jack> It works.
17:17 < funabashi> enough?
17:17 < funabashi> no
17:18 < dreadkopp> I've go a bashscript that starts X which is called at the very end of the bash_rc. the script itselfs checks every second if a X server is running and if not tries to start it ... running the bash script from a logged_in user works fine. however it's failing to start X on login . any ideas ?
17:19 < twainwek> funabashi: personally i'd suggest that if you want to test whether it will work or not not go with a light distro per se and instead go with some variant of *buntu since they include a lot of crap out of the box
17:20 < triceratux> lubuntu 18.10 lxqt ftw
17:20 < Psi-Jack> I kinda agree with twainwek for once on this, except not *buntu, but Solus, Fedora Live, or Debian Live.
17:21 < Lope> Psi-Jack: I've rebooted and tried 2 different HDMI cables. I'm using a HDMI > DVI adapter, that might have something to do with it.
17:22 < Psi-Jack> Nope. Not likely.
17:22 < Psi-Jack> HDMI and DVI basically use the same signals, just HDMI includes audio where DVI does not.
17:23 < Lope> Psi-Jack: The kernel has an option to force video outputs to work even if there's nothing appearing to be connected, will try that http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/faqs/boot-options.html
17:25 < Lope> I'm busy trying out kde-plasma on ubuntu 18.04. It's very nice! But I can't get keyboard shortcuts working. Trying to launch gnome-calculator. I've tried just the program name and also the full path to it. I've tried it as a global shortcut and as an application shortcut. When I press the key-combo, nothing happens. I've setup the same keyboard shortcut on Mate desktop environment, and it works. I've set it to have 2 virtual desktops, now the hotkeys for
17:25 < Lope> switching virtual desktops is working...
17:25 < napalmgrenade> Hey I'm trying to install some software, but if I do it as root I get an error telling me that I am the root. If I try to do sudo followed by the installation, I apparently dont have permission to create /home/instance...what do I do?
17:27 < Psi-Jack> napalmgrenade: Welcome back. Still trying to install weblogic?
17:28 < napalmgrenade> ty, yes I am
17:28 < Psi-Jack> shtspk nt alwd hr. pls no.
17:28 < Psi-Jack> And.. Weblogic has commercial support for their commercial product. Call them.
17:30 < napalmgrenade> Wow, sorry to have offended you with my abbreviation of thank you. Thanks for letting me know about the support.
17:31 < Psi-Jack> Don't be so surprised. "ty" is rude. :p
17:31 < Armand> Innit
17:33 < napalmgrenade> I do have a general question, though. I installed Ubuntu 16.04 relatively recently, are there some procedures one should do with permissions and groups on a fresh install?
17:34 < napalmgrenade> I'm just wondering because this is the first time that sudo has not worked for me in terms of installing a program
17:34 < Lope> is there a way to make xrandr SAY that a monitor is connected (it actually is) when it thinks it's not? What does --set allow me to do in this regard?
17:36 < Psi-Jack> napalmgrenade: Weblogic is a rather "special" case entirely.
17:37 < V7> Hey all
17:38 < V7> When trying to boot from CD is shows SysLinux Copyright and then shows "boot:" prompt
17:38 < V7> This mobo is old enough
17:38 < V7> Also, when typing "ls" into this prompt it shows directories on CD
17:39 < Psi-Jack> napalmgrenade: And you shouldn't be installing software /to/ /home. Make a system account and group, make a home for it in /opt/weblogic, chown it to the user/group you created previously, install as system account.
17:39 < Psi-Jack> And contact WebLogic to complain about their stupid security issues.
17:46 < twainwek> Lope: what are graphics card and drivers?
17:48 < V7> Anyone ;) ?
17:49 < Psi-Jack> V7: Sounds like a bad ISO image, CD burn, etc.
17:49 < V7> Screen: https://i.imgur.com/1FpAEqW.jpg
17:49 < V7> Psi-Jack: On other machine boots properly
17:50 < Psi-Jack> Looks like EFI.
17:51 < V7> You mean, UEFI ?
17:51 < Psi-Jack> No, I mean EFI
17:52 < V7> Psi-Jack: This mobo is old and it's BIOS is old enough. I don't think that it has EFI
17:52 < Psi-Jack> That could be a problem if that ISO you're using doesn't support non-EFI.
17:53 < V7> It boots on other machine with Celereon D on board
17:53 < Lope> twainwek: Psi-Jack: It's a laptop with Nvidia Optimus GT540M (Optimus means it's a nvidia GPU and also Intel GPU and it switches between them to conserve power or provide performance)
17:53 < Psi-Jack> UEFI is the replacement BIOS, while EFI is the name/label of the partition where UEFI boots an EFI stub for.
17:54 < twainwek> Lope: nvidia prop driver?
17:54 < Psi-Jack> V7: Okay. That's nice. And useless information.
17:54 < Psi-Jack> Ewww, optimus.
17:54 < V7> Psi-Jack: I mean that this is not UEFI ( EFI ) related
17:54 < twainwek> last time i checked nvidia still didn't fully support linux... so it's always on if it's using the card
17:55 < V7> This mobo doesn't have anything EFI related
17:55 < Lope> twainwek: yes, using the latest ubuntu provided nvidia proprietary driver
17:55 < V7> Thank you for though, btw :) Psi-Jack
17:56 < Psi-Jack> Again, UEFI is in hardware. EFI is on disk. :)
17:56 < twainwek> Lope: i messed around with that few years ago and i had to explicitely change my xorg.conf and few other things to get it to "work" (with it staying on all the time)
17:56 < V7> Oh, you mean that this CD is for UEFI only ?
17:56 < Lope> The HDMI > DVI adapter I used had pins C1-C4 and the blade pin from DVI-I but my monitor only has a DVI-D connector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface So I pulled out pins C1-C4 with longnose pliers, and that allowed the adapter to plugin to the monitor. The pins weren't even connected to anything internally. But still the laptop whether using the Intel or Nvidia GPU doesn't detect the monitor.
17:56 < Psi-Jack> V7: It's looking like a possability.
17:56 < V7> Again, Psi-Jack it boots on other machine which doesn't have UEFI on board
17:56 < Psi-Jack> V7: What is that, actually?
17:56 < twainwek> Lope: post xorg log
17:57 < V7> Arch32 ( i686 + 64 )
17:57 < Lope> I can force it to turn on the display using xrandr, but then xrandr still tells the DE that the monitor is disconnected, and then I can't get a wallpaper and panel etc, but can drag windows there.
17:58 < Lope> I've borrowed another monitor, it's got an HDMI input, and when using the HDMI cable only (no adapter needed) the laptop detects the monitor and all works as expected.
17:58 < twainwek> post xrandr output to
17:58 < twainwek> too
17:58 < Lope> It's a different machine. The main thing is that xrandr reports HDMI-1-1 is disconnected, even when it's driving a signal through it.
17:59 < Lope> And I could make it all work if there was simply a way to tell xrandr to pretend the monitor is connected so it can tell that to the DE.
17:59 < twainwek> oh man you got physical adapters in there in addition to the optimus fiasco.. no clue
17:59 < Lope> Yeah, it's only with the HDMI > DVI adapter that it doesn't detect the monitor. With just a HDMI cable, it detects the monitor.
18:00 < Lope> So it's obviously a crappy adapter.
18:00 < twainwek> plus if that's all you're trying to do, you should be able to modify some conf file of your de to show the taskbar
18:04 < Lope> I just tried the adapter with my desktop computer that has only intel graphics, and it had the same issue. It didn't detect the monitor with the HDMI > DVI adapter.
18:05 < rqh4> i am new using curl
18:05 < rqh4> what does curl -X PUT does?
18:05 < rqh4> what request does it gets sent
18:06 < rqh4> all i know is PUT is for sending and GET is for recieving
18:06 < twainwek> look up the man pages. it tells it to send a PUT request
18:10 < Lope> Looks like it's a common problem with these type of adapters https://www.amazon.com/Importer520-Plated-Female-DVI-D-Adapter/product-reviews/B0035B4LJM/ref=cm_cr_othr_d_paging_btm_6?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews
18:13 < Lope> The crappy adapter probably lacks the hot-plug-detect pin.
18:14 < MacWinne_> there is a /bin/bash process that is taking up 100% of CPU on one of my servers. It was started on June15th. I'm trying to figure out what it's doing and how it got started.  Any tips? /proc/27699 shows the CWD it was started from
18:14 < Lope> The adapter is probably designed to output a signal from a DVI port of a GPU and convert that to an HDMI output, not convert an HDMI input to a DVI input.
18:15 < MacWinne_> ps -ef just shows "user     27699     1 13 Jun15 pts/1    14:33:03 /bin/bash"
18:15 < tim241> MacWinne_, are there any processes that are running under that /bin/bash process?
18:15 < tim241> check htop/top
18:16 < MacWinne_> tim241, htop doesn't show anything under it's tree
18:16 < tim241> hm MacWinne_ , try killing it then?
18:16 < MacWinne_> tim241, yeah, was going to.  but trying to figure out what it was doing first so I can prevent it from happening again
18:17 < tim241> hm, no idea :3
18:17 < twainwek> MacWinne_: is there anything under /proc/27699/fd
18:18 < MacWinne_> twainwek, yep.  /dev/pts1. a bunch of broken links like 9 -> pipe:[3344394]
18:18 < drumcode303> i don't have sound anymore. something seems to have killed my onboard sound, now i'm stuck with nvidia/hdmi.
18:18 < MrElendig> MacWinne_: tree view can be handy
18:19 < MacWinne_> MrElendig, yep. looked at tree view on htop.. didn't see anything under it
18:19 < MacWinne_> twainwek, interesting.. I see pts/1 which seems to be related to a multitail session
18:26 < drumcode303> how would I troubleshoot my system for sound when lspci and aplay list different devices? (lspci has two, aplay only one)
18:41 < bls> troubleshoot what? and aplay is going to use which every device alsa has set as the default
18:41 < RobertGridCoin> hii
18:42 < RobertGridCoin> Any humans this is my First time on irc
18:42 < Cmaj6> If linux was a women i'd f*cking marry her!!!
18:42 < RobertGridCoin> but its os
18:42 < RobertGridCoin> who u can make , its open source !!!!!!
18:42 < compdoc> we are all bots
18:43 < RobertGridCoin> haha humanBot
18:43 < revel> Did I pass the Turing test?
18:43 < RobertGridCoin> nope , even gogle dulex cannot do that
18:43 < compdoc> yes, but with a C-
18:44 < RobertGridCoin> google , can't do it
18:44 < RobertGridCoin> ok anyone can tell of you tell me ur best shell command
18:45 < revel> rm
18:45 < polprog> find . | xargs rm
18:45 < RobertGridCoin> haha
18:45 < cortexman> extract a website from a warc file..
18:45 < polprog> dont do this at home kids
18:45 < cortexman> how
18:45 < revel> Yeah, do it at work.
18:46 < RobertGridCoin> haha yes at work , on linux server
18:46 < polprog> someones gotta somehow test if backups work, duh
18:47 < RobertGridCoin> so what os do u use , me Ubuntu
18:49 < triceratux> ubuntu lets me remain a n00b. thats never been so true as with lubuntu 18.10 lxqt. it will change everything
18:50 < RobertGridCoin> y bro
18:51 < sauvin> RobertGridCoin, "you", not "u", and "why", not "y". Use standard English, please.
18:51 < RobertGridCoin> okay , understood Commander
18:52 < triceratux> its the qt. it runs kde apps really easily without having to be kde itself. & i looks exactly like xfce so its usable from the first minute
18:53 < xormor> I use Debian "stretch" 9. I tried "Devuan" ASCII 2.0 but it remains a curiosity to me. I ran it from a USB thumb drive stick. I have Debian stable "stretch" 9 in my computers.
18:56 < RobertGridCoin> I am noob to Linux , windows does not even have comparison with Linux.
18:58 < hexnewbie> It's like comparing a car to car factory with the cars in it.
18:59 < RobertGridCoin> yes , very much kind of.
19:00 < Psi-Jack> polprog: snap piping find to xargs for that not do efficient. With -exec rm \{\} + or even just -delete you get the sane thing but better.
19:00 < Psi-Jack> Also... Not snap.
19:00 < polprog> Psi-Jack: yeah i know
19:01 < polprog> cant tell you that from the top of my head, dont use it that often
19:02 < Psi-Jack> xargs and find are both from the findutils package / sources.
19:02 < jim> RobertGridCoin, couple things... first, I hope you're enjoying your experience, I'm curious what you want to do with it mostly?
19:03 < RobertGridCoin> i do programming , it has java , python already installed , it respects and understands programmer
19:04 < bls> it does? good, because I'm tired of all the disrespect I get from other OSs
19:04 < Psi-Jack> It does not respect. That's a human thing. Software is not human. 😊
19:04 < Psi-Jack> Heh
19:05 < jim> RobertGridCoin, yep, and there are thousands of languages you can explore. linux and other unix-alikes were pretty much made for programming. ok, second thing:
19:05 < RobertGridCoin> its dev respects programmers
19:05 < morf> thousands? dude... what plat are you from? :)
19:05 < morf> planet*
19:05 < Psi-Jack> Made by programmers actually. Not exactly for.
19:05 < Psi-Jack> Hehe
19:05 < nixfreak> how do i make this work  ? var=sed -n  `echo ${linetwo}/p` $FILE1
19:06 < nixfreak> I know I am missing escapes somewhere
19:06 < bls> nixfreak: can't really tell from that snippet what you're trying to accomplish
19:06 < Psi-Jack> RobertGridCoin: lol. You haven't seen the lkml or the Linux source code have you? The comments are... Amazing.
19:06 < nixfreak> Ill post it to a paste
19:06 < jim> RobertGridCoin, I'd like to request that you spell out y as why and u as you... some newer english speakers have native languages where they don't hear y or u as why or you, and we would like to promote maximum understanding
19:07 < hexnewbie> Linus just tells it like it is, and you turn into a good kernel programmer because of it. Honesty is respect. ;)
19:07 < RobertGridCoin> nope , but if you recommend it ,then defiantly will do
19:07 < nixfreak> https://paste.linux.community/view/75c8b46e
19:07 < Psi-Jack> nixfreak: your missing $(...)
19:08 < nixfreak> the variable linetwoprint
19:08 < nchambers> nixfreak: :|
19:08 < bls> nixfreak: first off, try shellcheck.net, it's going to tell you to use $() instead of ``, which doesn't nest the way you need it to
19:08 < hexnewbie> The lack of comments in the kernel source code - or documentation, since comments are overrated - is truly daunting. I know I'm probably looking in the wrong place, but the VFS API changes with every version, I still adapt my filesystems by looking at the others, since I have no docs on the behaviour.
19:08 < nixfreak> it does but want to get this working first
19:09 < RobertGridCoin> yes , I will , thanks for mentioning it.
19:09 < Psi-Jack> nixfreak: shellcheck as sobbing at your code. Avoid using backticks.
19:09 < nchambers> nixfreak: get it working by listening to shellcheck
19:09 < nchambers> theres a reason it suggests the things it does
19:09 < dnanib> linetwo=`echo -e $linecount / 2 | bc`
19:09 < dnanib>  - can be simplified as: linetwo=$(( $linecount / 2 ))
19:09 < bls> you can also .... ^
19:10 < nchambers> avoid the use of echo with flags, and cat | anything is usually wrong
19:10 < bls> and cat $file | wc can be simplified as just wc $file
19:10 < nchambers> wc "$file"
19:10 < nchambers> don't forget quotes
19:10 < bls> well then don't forget {}s either: wc "${file}"
19:10 < Psi-Jack> Quote all the variables.
19:10 < nchambers> the {} doesn't make a difference there
19:10 < nchambers> the "" does
19:10 < nixfreak> what about the sed statement
19:11 < dnanib> And those sleeps... So totally Windows-y. "Please wait while I do nothing"
19:11 < bls> not if there's no space in the variable
19:11 < Psi-Jack> ^
19:11 < nchambers> bls: could be tabs, could be new lines
19:11 < nchambers> could be special shell characters
19:11 < nixfreak> if your not using sleeps how do you slow down the script then
19:12 < Sitri> Why do you even want to slow it down?
19:12 < nchambers> might as well just quote it to be safe anyways. if it doesn't need the quotes, no harm. if it does, then you're already good
19:12 < dnanib> Why do you want to slow it down?
19:12 < bls> same can be said for {}
19:12 < Psi-Jack> bls there's a difference
19:12 < nchambers> bls: no
19:13 < nchambers> {} makes absolutely no difference thre
19:13 < nchambers> no matter what the variable contains
19:13 < Psi-Jack> Without quotes there could be unusual or even security issues.
19:13 < hexnewbie> Forgetting the {} in "${a}" is usually easily noticed, less destructive, and visible by your editor's syntax highlighting.
19:13 < bls> yes, but I'm saying if you're going to be defensive, then do it right
19:13 < nchambers> but thats not defensive...
19:13 < dnanib> One more thing. You are processing the entire file in lines 5, 7 & 8. That can be optimized a lot.
19:13 < Psi-Jack> Especially for the unknown.
19:14 < hexnewbie> "$a" is not wrong, $a - with the exception of a few corner cases - is usually both wrong and dangerous
19:14 < nixfreak> find 1st , middle and last lines of a file
19:14 < nchambers> hexnewbie: yes exactly
19:14 < nchambers> but ${a} by itself is pointless
19:14 < bls> `foo='a'; echo "$foo"` ...now I want to output a_b so I `echo "$foo_b"`
19:14 < bls> oops
19:14 < nchambers> yes, you would use it there
19:14 < nchambers> but that is not the case here
19:14 < nchambers> its by itself, so its pointless
19:15 < bls> so how does it hurt to add it to begin with?
19:15 < nchambers> i never claimed it hurt
19:15 < nchambers> i said it was pointless
19:15 < bls> it's pointless until it's not
19:15 < hexnewbie> bls: The 12 times I needed to do this, the syntax highlight of vim or kate told me.
19:15 < nchambers> and at that point you should use them
19:15 < bls> I could make the same claim for "s. it's pointless until you need it
19:16 < nchambers> except thats not true :)
19:16 < bls> so may as well use them
19:16 < nchambers> wat
19:16 < nchambers> you're not making any sense
19:16 < nchambers> quoting variables had much different behavior than wrappign it in {}
19:16 < Psi-Jack> Agreed
19:16 < hexnewbie> bls: It's not the same. The quotes may become needed at *runtime* as someone creates dangerous filenames. The curly brackets can only become needed at code editing time.
19:17 < nchambers> ^
19:21 < Psi-Jack> Not just dangerous filenames, but dangerous outputs from running commands and trapping the output into variables.
19:22 < Psi-Jack> The unknown.
19:22 < vovioheler> is there anything stoping me from using 80 ports at the same time on a debian gateway?
19:22 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
19:23 < bls> right, and I'm saying both prevent a specific class of problem, and I consider them both worth preventing, not prevent one all the time and prevent the other some of the time, or hope someone editing your scripts knows better an remembers to add them in
19:23 < Psi-Jack> That's bash. :)
19:24 < Psi-Jack> You either know it well, or you know it enough to be damaging.
19:24 < V7> Just caught a line which could solve or say why it doesn't want to boot on thi machine
19:25 < nchambers> bls: if they don't know to put {} in the few times they use it, so that $foo is still separate in $foobar, then they shouldn't be editing scripts anyways
19:25 < bls> because not everyone knows better, so setting them up to not make breaking updates to a script is worth the time it takes to type "${foo}" instead of $foo
19:25 < V7> Just about for 0.1s and it completely freezes a computer after this line, caught via video: https://i.imgur.com/ZM8Me4R.jpg
19:25 < V7> What could this be
19:25 < bls> nchambers: if only we could fire people for being bad as shell scripting :P
19:25 < Psi-Jack> You can. :)
19:26 < nchambers> people are going to write shitty software. if they're not smart enough to look up what to do when you have a variable named $foo, but need to use it as $foobar, then you'll probably fuck up the script worse anyways
19:26 < Cache_Money> I’ve downloaded my public key to my server (long story but using the DigitalOcean console to access it) and now I’m trying to put the ocntents of that file into my /.ssh/authorized_keys file. I tried $ sudo cat gistfile.txt > ~/.ssh/authorized_keys but I get a “Permission denied” response. Any idea how to go about this?
19:26 < V7> nchambers: THis is option too, isn't it: $foo""bar
19:27 < Psi-Jack> or "$foo"bar
19:27 < nchambers> V7: there are several options
19:29 < Cache_Money> Do I have to manually type in my public key if I’m getting a Permission denied response when trying to cat it into my authorized_keys file?
19:30 < bls> Cache_Money: no
19:30 < Psi-Jack> Umm.. Definitely no/.
19:30 < bls> Cache_Money: the permission denied is due to permissions on one of the files, not the actual key data itself
19:30 < capn> tee?
19:30 < Cache_Money> bls: I tried using sudo but had no luck
19:30 < Psi-Jack> ...
19:30 < Psi-Jack> sudo? But... why?
19:31 < Sitri> sudo isn't a magic fix button
19:31 < searedvandal> set the correct permissions
19:31 < ntd> speaking of su/sudo magic
19:31 < bls> Cache_Money: then you've likely trashed the permissions on multiple files/directories in your home if you've been resorting to that
19:31 < Psi-Jack> Cache_Money: Explain what exactly you've done, and what exact problem(s) you are having.
19:31 < ntd> read the "latest"? (old timing attack when "su user -c foo") :P
19:32 < Cache_Money> I’m trying to regain access to my DigitalOcean droplet. I’m logged in via their web console and need to get my new public key added to my authorized_keys file so that I can ssh into it
19:32 < nchambers> Cache_Money: whats the output of: stat ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
19:33 < bls> also namei -l ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
19:33 < Cache_Money> Here are the permission on the authorzed_keys file: - r - - - - - - -
19:33 < Sitri> What about the .ssh directory?
19:33 < Psi-Jack> Not just permissions, but owners too.
19:33 < bls> ~/.ssh should be 700/rwx------ and ~/.ssh/authorized_keys should be 600/rw-------
19:34 < Psi-Jack> authorized_keys can be u=rw,go=r
19:34 < Psi-Jack> That's not as strict.
19:34 < thePacket> hi guys
19:34 < Sitri> .ssh/ has to be go-rwx
19:34 < thePacket> does anyone an implementation of l2tp that is not dead?
19:35 < Psi-Jack> .ssh has to be u=rwx,go=
19:35 < Sitri> 12tp is what?  @thePacket
19:35 < Cache_Money> my user (deploy) is the owner of those files
19:35 < Cache_Money> So, I should chmod 600 ~/.ssh/authorized_keys ??
19:35 < bls> Sitri: L2TP, (get a better font :P )
19:36 < bls> Cache_Money: yes, it currently isn't writable
19:36 < Cache_Money> bls: okay. I’ll give that a try
19:37 < bls> Cache_Money: and as others mentioned, make sure you own that file and the directory it's in
19:37 < Psi-Jack> Oh perfect!
19:37  * Psi-Jack wraps bls up with Saran-Wrap 
19:37 < Psi-Jack> :)
19:37 < Dan39> psi-wrap
19:37 < Saran-Wrap> :D
19:38 < Dan39> oh Saran-Wrap
19:38 < Dan39> creepy
19:38  * Saran-Wrap wraps Dan39 
19:38 < Dan39> o_O
19:38 < Dan39> X_X
19:38 < Cache_Money> bls: that worked. THanks for the help~
19:41 < LunaLovegood> How do I get data integrity with my dmraid ?  If I understand it correctly, I can corrupt (with dd on /dev/sda or something) one of the two drives in my software RAID 1 thing, and Linux won't be able to tell which of the two disk has the real data.
19:42 < sh1ro> more drives
19:43 < LunaLovegood> and RAID 5?
19:43 < sh1ro> or 6 or 10
19:43 < sh1ro> or keep hashes on a flashdrive or something
19:44 < hexnewbie> LunaLovegood: That's the case for all RAIDs. Some filesystems get checksums, though. But the data can also get corrupted before reaching the filesystem (e.g. when in RAM)
19:44 < bls> you'd need something that can do bit-rot protection
19:45 < LunaLovegood> Is there something with LVM or whatever that would give me per-sector checksums?
19:45 < azarus> i use raid6 and scrub periodically
19:46 < LunaLovegood> Would a 3-drives RAID6 make sense?
19:46 < azarus> LunaLovegood: not possiblöe
19:46 < azarus> possible*
19:46 < LunaLovegood> why not? one data and two parity drives?
19:46 < azarus> RAID6 needs at least 4
19:46 < LunaLovegood> it has triple parity?
19:46 < azarus> no
19:47 < hexnewbie> MD RAID can do some non-orthodox things
19:47 < azarus> LunaLovegood: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID
19:47 < tds> I think ZFS raidz2 can work with 3 drives
19:47 < azarus> "RAID 6 requires a minimum of four disks."
19:47 < hexnewbie> For example, it can do 3-disk RAID-10. However, the mathematical reduction of RAID 6 to 3 disks would be a 3-way mirror, so RAID 1. It's not a genuine RAID level.
19:48 < tds> You might as well run a triple mirror at that point though
19:49 < LunaLovegood> Yeah I suppose but I'd hoped it could work with two drives mirroring, with checksum metadata stored somewhere else
19:49 < azarus> Remember: RAID is not a backup
19:50 < hexnewbie> Well, hopefully MD is intelligent enough to see what the disks are voting, so if one drive differs, it takes the data from the other two. But that would exist in the code only if 3-way mirrors were popular enough for the programmer to consider that case, there's no guarantee it will happen
19:50 < Sven_vB> hi! I'd like to automate the task of reading and modifying numbers at specific positions in ELF binaries. currently I have one long ugly command "dd … | od …" to read and another "printf … | dd …" for writing. that's for unsigned integers; it gets waaaay worse for floats. does Ubuntu have better tools for that?
19:50 < hexnewbie> azarus: And backups are also not a way to certify the integrity of the current live data
19:51 < LunaLovegood> I can't just use ZFS or something, because I want to run DRBD somewhere between the disks and the filesystems
19:54 < hexnewbie> Hm, XFS and ext4 have both added checksums, but only for the metadata, so far.
19:55 < hexnewbie> NILFS has checksums, but it's something I've never heard anyone use (I've been tempted by the feature set)
19:56 < LunaLovegood> What I'd initially thought would have been :   ( SATA x 2 -> DMRAID1 ) x 2 -> DRDB -> EXT4 or other
19:57 < hexnewbie> LunaLovegood: If you format this combination with NILFS on top, you'd probably make up something you're the only person on the planet running
19:57 < LunaLovegood> It would have been great for bad sectors or power outages, but it does nothing for data integrity. EXT4 or whatever I use at the end would have no way to know it has 4 locations to read from, even if it had data checksums.
19:58 < hexnewbie> Although I guess RAID underneath DRBD is common in itself
19:59 < LunaLovegood> isn't there some overlay block device thingy I can stick between SATA and software RAID1 that would consume some space in order to store block checksums every 128 blocks or so?
19:59 < sh1ro> ZFS is amazing if you can deal with the annoyance of dkms or custom kernels
19:59 < lupine> I wasn't impressed last time I used it
19:59 < lupine> very poor scalability
20:00 < sh1ro> yeah it's really nicer on bsd :\
20:00 < spreeuw> and high ramuse and low performance from a user pov
20:00 < spreeuw> nice for data safety though
20:01 < Combined2857> I used the command "badblocks -v" on a hard disk with data in, will that erase the data ?
20:01 < sh1ro> no
20:01 < spreeuw> hows the linux version of zfs coming along?
20:01 < Combined2857> thanks sh1ro
20:01 < lupine> (gpt (luks (pvs (vg (lv (ext4 data))))))
20:01 < sh1ro> -w nukes drives
20:02 < spreeuw> plus you kinda need ecc ram
20:02 < sh1ro> not need but it's preferable
20:03 < spreeuw> for my simple fileserver dm raid mirror with ext4 suffices
20:03 < spreeuw> easy to recover too
20:06 < sh1ro> reminds me. it's worth backing up your luks header
20:06 < sh1ro> if that sector fails you're boned
20:06 < spreeuw> I think it might be using a copy somewhere
20:07 < spreeuw> but that would  also at the start somewhere
20:11 < kubast2> Can someone provide me with /me proof LXC tutorial ,trying to get it running on virt-manager ,but it says there's no connection driver avalible for lxc://
20:11 < GlenK> hi there.  is there a canonical way to run virtual machines these days?  or does it all sorta vary from distro to distro?
20:12 < tonyt> glenk use virtual box
20:12 < bls> it's all the same tooling under the hood. the differences are mainly going to be in the frontends
20:14 < bls> so libvirt and kvm underneath, then virt-manager or the proxmox UI or the RHEL interface
20:15 < kubast2> still no idea where to find "connection driver" for lxc
20:19 < Psi-Jack> tonyt: Ugh....
20:19 < Psi-Jack> Here's some slime. Use this! It'll work for you! ;)
20:20 < sauvin> I use Virtualbox. :P
20:20 < Psi-Jack> I'm sorry to hear that.
20:20 < morf> use libvirt gez
20:20 < sauvin> I also use qemu, but I don't like it for running XP.
20:21 < LunaLovegood> Okay so I guess I'll try a BTRFS RAID1 filesystem since it has data checksuming, and then I'll make a big empty file and use DRBD on it with a loopback device.
20:22 < spreeuw> XP?
20:22 < spreeuw> eol amirite
20:22 < sauvin> Yes, but it's still what I need when running legacy engineering software. Those virtual machines have zero net access.
20:22 < spreeuw> https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1008981518159511553  HP servers
20:23 < DLange> yup, best exploit 2018 award, strong contender!
20:23 < bls> LunaLovegood: I'd read up on the bugs in btrfs' RAID implementation very carefully before adopting it for anything other than an experiment
20:23 < spreeuw> almost better than the sun solaris where you could just root a box via telnet
20:25 < bls> although BTRFS + RAID + DRBD + a loopmount sounds pretty experimental
20:29 < Siecje> What is the proper way to re-parent a long running process to init.d?
20:30 < LunaLovegood> bls: it's actually BTRFS/RAID1 + loopmount + DRBD + BTRFS
20:31 < LunaLovegood> Oh, and then it gets exported over NFS
20:32 < LunaLovegood> man, what a mess
20:33 < LunaLovegood> Individual SATA drives can read about 200 MB/s, I wonder what I'll benchmark this at.
20:33 < LunaLovegood> *my SATA drives, I mean
20:40 < lnnb> Siecje: init.d,  is that a pid 1 program?
20:41 < LtL> lnnb: init is, yes
20:41 < lnnb> LtL: init is pid 1, is init.d the pid 1 portion of an init program?
20:42 < lnnb> if so you can do the daemon thing   i forget the steps  is it fork() setsid() fork()  (then exit in the parent fork?)
20:42 < LtL> lnnb: init.d/is a directory with init scripts
20:42 < LtL> init is #1 PID
20:43 < lnnb> if init is a directory, how can you  reparent a program to a directory?
20:43 < lnnb> chroot!?
20:43 < lnnb> init.d
20:44 < LtL> lnnb: i dunno, systemd magic?
20:44 < phogg> lnnb: "init" is what we call the first program to run (PID=1), /etc/init.d/ is a directory.
20:44 < lnnb> is Siecje your alt account, LtL  ?
20:45 < LtL> lnnb: no it is not.
20:45 < phogg> when a process loses its parent it is re-parented under PID 1 (init)
20:45 < lnnb> i don't need this lesson but thanks for the refresher for the people in here without a clue
20:46 < LtL> lnnb: i have no fefault accounts, had this one over 12 years.
20:46 < LtL> *default, rather 'other' accts.
20:47 < phogg> ah, having scrolled up I see it now
20:48 < phogg> Siecje: "init.d" is a directory, not a daemon. The init daemon is just called "init", or these days may be called "systemd". To re-parent a long running process you merely need for its parent to exit without signaling for it to be terminated, or for the parent to otherwise disown it.
20:51 < LtL> lnostdal: i beg your pardon, did i speak out of turn? e.g. Siecje ?
20:51 < LtL> lnnb: i beg your pardon, did i speak out of turn? e.g. Siecje ?
20:51 < LtL> lnostdal: sorry
20:55 < phogg> Siecje: more generally the process itself should fork twice and exit the original process and the first forked process. The remaining process will now be a child of pid1 and you have more or less created a daemon.
21:03 < Siecje> phogg: How do you exit without singalling a sub process?
21:07 < bls> don't believe it's possible once something is already started, but using the daemonize command to start it /should work
21:12 < jprjr> Whenever I write code nowadays I don't bother putting a daemonize option in it. Every modern init system doesn't need the doublefork, if somebody insists on using sysvinit they can use start-stop-daemon to daemonize it themselves.
21:20 < qrvpzvb> su requires a valid username right?
21:21 < qrvpzvb> I can't just use an arbitrary numeric ID
21:24 < evanesoteric> What exactly is happening when I do   rsync -e "ssh .."  ...     as opposed to without -e? Is the information encrypted, does it now use the ssh logs?
21:28 < koala_man> evanesoteric: you're just customizing the network transport
21:28 < koala_man> rsync uses ssh by default, but you can choose any other transport tool, or just customize how ssh is invoked to do it
21:28 < evanesoteric> So using port 22 instead of 879 or whatever?
21:33 < ananke> evanesoteric: '-e' and 'without -e' can mean the same thing, pending how the url is constructed
21:35 < bls> and whether or not there's an rsync daemon running/listening on the other end
21:49 < binTrl> Why did MTP had to be this bad :( . I cut some files from my device to my PC and now they're nowhere
21:50 < Amm0n> binTrl, did you "sync" the device?
21:51 < binTrl> I did nothing, just mtp cut from Thunar.
21:52 < binTrl> you'ren't supposed to sync from gui apps like thunar. I hate thunar for this as well
21:52 < binTrl> I am screwed :(
21:53 < lukey_> rule of thumb for me is to always copy files and then delete them from the source when dealing with different disks/devices; moving on the same filesystem is fine
21:54 < binTrl> lukey_: New rule of thumb, fsck mtp. *Always* use ADB
21:58 < jim> newer rule of thumb: if you don't have two, you have one or less
22:09 < birdbolt1> hallo
22:10 < birdbolt1> im curious why do some channels have two pound symbols
22:10 < kerframil> birdbolt1: I think it's to denote that they are not officially associated with the project or theme in question
22:11 < kerframil> birdbolt1: for instance, ##linux is not administered by Torvalds or the Linux Foundation
22:11 < birdbolt1> hmm interesting. I tried to join #linux and it was invite only so i was curious
22:12 < ayecee> probably because you were already in ##linux
22:12 < birdbolt1> Do you have to be a recognized contributor or something before you can find your way in there
22:12 < ayecee> otherwise it would just redirect you to ##linux
22:12 < birdbolt1> wait... arent they different?
22:12 < kerframil> birdbolt1: here you go: https://freenode.net/kb/answer/namespaces
22:12 < jim> (Torvalds being the author and trademark (on "linux") holder
22:12 < jim> )
22:12 < ayecee> they're different in that there's one more #, yes
22:12 < ayecee> #linux is a placeholder channel only
22:12 < birdbolt1> ohh interesting bit about irc i didnt know. Thanks kerframil
22:13 < kerframil> birdbolt1: well, freenode - not irc at large
22:13 < birdbolt1> ohh okay i see
22:14 < jim> #channels are on-topic project channels with the owner of the project involved
22:14 < jim> ##channels are "about" channels, like, this channel is "about" linux
22:14 < louisdk> Doing some mysql packages updates with apt I get this "Failed to connect to database: Access denied for user 'root'@'louis-server.lan' (using password: YES) at -e line 5, <> line 1." I just can't figure out where it gets louis-server.lan from and how I can change it to localhost. Looking in /etc/mysql/ didn't gave any clues.
22:15 < ayecee> louisdk: /etc/mysql/debian.cnf, probably
22:15 < ayecee> i think that's what package updates use for credentials when working with the database.
22:16 < ayecee> though usually the user is debian-sys-maint, so maybe it's not that.
22:20 < kerframil> the louis-server.lan part is probably the result of a rerverse DNS lookup, as applies to those who haven't cottoned on to the "skip_name_resolve" setting
22:22 < graff> how do i make fortune run evertytime anyone logs in to an ssh server?
22:23 < bls> graff: you can't
22:23 < graff> or is this potentially a bad idea to have so much crap
22:23 < bls> graff: you can try adding it to /etc/profile.d/ but people are free to override the settings there
22:23 < graff> i just want to sort of convey the unix experience, sort of like i am used to it from the olden days
22:23 < graff> but I don't want to mess it up
22:23 < graff> bls: ah so just the shell rc file? that makes sense
22:24 < graff> hmm
22:24 < graff> btw, while I am here. what is the proper practice for upgrading debian 9?
22:24 < graff> they said -u upgrade on #debian. but that seemed sort of weird
22:25 < graff> i don' recall anything about -u from back in the day.
22:25 < qrvpzvb> can runuser take UIDs?  it seems to me that it requires valid usernames only
22:25 < ayecee> the infamous, cryptic "they"
22:27 < pol0> hi , when im trying to open any video there is sound
22:29 < boblamont> do I have to install cups to print/merge to file labels in openoffice?
22:32 < bls> what do you mean by "print/merge to file labels"?
22:34 < boblamont> the options are to print or to print to file, both of which do mail merge (pull data from the database into the label template)
22:34 < bls> it technically should be able to print to file without the cups daemon installed
22:36 < bls> was going to suggest asking its channel, but pretty sure that project is dead
22:36 < pol0> i can see the sound bar
22:37 < boblamont> yeah, I tried there, seems dead
22:37 < pol0> but its not working
22:37 < bub_> 4
22:37 < bub_> whops..
22:37 < bls> pol0: tried asking the channel for your video player?
22:38 < pol0> bls im using linux
22:39 < pol0> and its audio not video
22:39 < pol0> it was working before
22:45 < pol0> no support?
22:45 < V7> Whata ... https://www.wish.com/feed/tag_53dc186421a86318bdc87f20/product/5ae098f16bcfa31c870bb50c
22:46 < jprjr> pol0: honestly that's the kind of thing that's hard to troubleshoot over IRC because there's a lot of details involved
22:46 < jprjr> pol0: what kind of sound hardware you've got, what distro your own, what version of the kernel being used, are you using pulseaudio (probably) or just ALSA (unlikely), what player is it, etc etc
22:48 < pol0> jprjr, im using kali linux , when i open setting i found speaker - built-in audio
22:49 < pol0> jprjr, look when i open youtube or something there is voice
22:49 < pol0> jprjr, sorry when i open youtube there is no voice
22:49 < pol0> no sound*
22:49 < jprjr> pol0: right off the bat, you're using Kali Linux, which nobody should use for a day-to-day distro. I'm not going to help just because of that, being brutally honest.
22:50 < kminor> heya guys, I can't remove cpp-4.1-doc package. It's not pinned or on hold... it just wont remove
22:50 < jprjr> If you get the same problem on like, any other distro, then we can talk. But I don't help with Kali
22:51 < kminor> started when dist-upgrading from debian wheezy to jessie ... but those guys are kinda terds to ask so figured I'd try you guys first
22:52 < birkoff> in old times did people only have screens that occupied TTYs of one linux server and actual machine?
22:54 < jprjr> birkoff: depends on how far back you go I guess
22:55 < jprjr> It would also depend on who's running the server right, like even today you'll have people setup a "server" who do everything via physical console just because they don't know/get ssh very well
22:55 < orbisvicis> I want to make sure I've linked the right version of a library, can gdb help with this ?
22:56 < jprjr> orbisvicis: I think you can do it with readelf or objdump
22:57 < jprjr> orbisvicis: ldd is also a quick-and-easy way to show what libraries you'll be using, but that's assuming you're not dealing with cross-compilation
22:58 < birkoff> as far as the linux TTY go jprjr
22:58 < jprjr> birkoff: I'm not 100% sure what you're really asking here
22:59 < birkoff> this is why there's alt+F1 to alt+f7/8
22:59 < birkoff> i read somewhere once that in the past people would use those ttys on different computers
22:59 < birkoff> i think
23:01 < jprjr> Yeah kinda. The default virtual terminal on Linux only works with one seat.
23:01 < memphisto> terminals
23:01 < memphisto> dumb computers
23:01 < jprjr> But I'm pretty sure you can setup multiple physical terminals on serial ports and whatnot
23:02 < jprjr> I've never had a need to do that so I don't know how to go about it
23:03 < bls> yes, you can. used to do it in smaller labs where we didn't have a serial terminal server...just connect two machines with crossover cables, fire up a getty on one serial port on each
23:03 < birkoff> serial ports connected to where ?
23:03 < birkoff> and communicating how ?
23:04 < bls> you can connect physical terminals or you can connect other computers, and they usually communicate using RS-232
23:04 < hexnewbie> TTY literally means a serial port connected to a TeleTYpe. That's why on Linux (where tty[0-9]* stands for virtual consoles), the serial ports are ttyS[0-3]
23:04 < kerframil> to each other i.e. with a null modem cable
23:05 < bls> in the past, it meant adding a getty line for ttyS# to /etc/inittab, then running minicom or cu on the other end
23:06 < birkoff> so the other teletypes had to have some sort of computer with its own OS ?
23:06 < bls> no
23:06 < jim> and, serial ports have been known to connect to other things, like different kinds of phyaical terminals, and modems and such
23:06 < bls> just enough hardware to interpret the serial comms and the terminal codes
23:06 < bls> like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100
23:07 < birkoff> so multiple teleypes without cpu/ram and harddisks would connect to one computer
23:07 < bls> birkoff: correct, they were essentially just a screen and a keyboard
23:07 < birkoff> which had those
23:07 < birkoff> that's cool
23:07 < bls> you'd have a mainfram/big iron system with lots of serial ports, then you had a bunch of dumb terminals connected to it from which people did their work
23:08 < memphisto> history class
23:08 < Haled> Is it wrong to expand a primary Linux partition to the left?
23:08 < hexnewbie> birkoff: An original teletype, before glass terminals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MikoF6KZjm0
23:08 < balletjebal> at amazing speeds :P
23:08 < birkoff> it seems like an easy way to divide computer use to people, instead of like today having to buy several licenses for OS and multiple complete computer machines
23:09 < birkoff> Haled depends if the mBR sits on that HD
23:09 < Haled> birkoff, it does
23:09 < birkoff> can one do something simliar today with like a keyboard a screen and i dont know, some way link them to one machine running linux ?
23:09 < bls> although the modern equivalents usually have more substantial local memory and use netbooting
23:10 < birkoff> pxe something loading an OS from the net?
23:10 < memphisto> you could use thinclients today
23:10 < bls> you could, and although it was neat for the era, it's extremely ugly and limiting given the technology available these days
23:11 < jprjr> I think it's possible to run Xserver in a multiseat setup
23:11 < bls> birkoff: yes, pxe boot a kernel, then load the rest of the OS over NFS
23:11 < jstvz> hexnewbie: thanks for that, never seen one before
23:11 < Haled> birkoff, I can't delete the leftmost partition because the hdd has the mbr there?! why?
23:11 < Haled> I don't mind re-installing grub if necessary or whatnot
23:11 < bls> Haled: what does "left" even mean in this context?
23:11 < memphisto> but if you look at it like that you have full blown PC that boots over network
23:11 < birkoff> bls how is it limited with todays technology and not improved?
23:11 < Haled> or is it worse than that...
23:11 < memphisto> thin client is like small pc that remotes to Server
23:12 < birkoff> Haled but grub needs to sit on the first sector of the drive
23:12 < birkoff> first 512 bytes IIRC
23:12 < hexnewbie> Haled: Non-orthodox resizing is more difficult and risky, which is why people choose LVM where it's not an issue
23:12 < jprjr> Haled: I assume birkoff was trying to avoid having to re-install grub? So long as you leave some empty space for it you should be fine
23:12 < Haled> bls, means closer to the beginning of the drive
23:12 < birkoff> but for a pxe i still need a motherboard and ram
23:13 < jprjr> Haled: my first question is why, like what are you trying to actually do?
23:13 < bls> birkoff: we now have accelerated, bitmapped graphics, a full TCP stack, interfaces that aren't arbirarily designed for terminal vendor lock-in
23:13 < birkoff> Haled show us the whole partition table
23:13 < Haled> jprjr, I have a machine with NTFS (windows), swap, Ext4 (Linux). Decided I don't want the windows and I want its space
23:13 < birkoff> bls rs232 was designed for vendor lockin ?
23:14 < bls> birkoff: no, but the terminal control protocol on top of it was
23:14 < birkoff> Haled then yo uwould lose swap too i think
23:14 < birkoff> bls what was its name?
23:14 < Haled> birkoff, you make it sound so naughty
23:14 < Haled> there you go: https://pastebin.com/W8rDCw03
23:14 < jprjr> Haled: yeah you should be able to delete the windows partition no problem. I don't know if you listed your partitions in order or whatever. Also depends on if anything is a physical vs logical partition
23:14 < bls> birkoff: read the history of the termcap file and terminfo database for some of the details, or check out the terminal chaper in the Unix Haters Guide
23:14 < Haled> all physical
23:15 < Haled> I can unlink the swap, obviously
23:15 < Haled> sudo swapoff ...
23:15 < jprjr> Haled: See you didn't specify all this earlier, and I assume people thought you were "expanding left" into free sectors that were being used by grub
23:15 < birkoff> then like I said you will lose swap and possibly the boot loader
23:15 < birkoff> those are not fatal
23:16 < jprjr> Haled: But yeah you should be able to trash /dev/sda1 no problem, maybe move /dev/sda2 to the same start sector that /dev/sda1 was at, then expand /dev/sda3 to fill the space, badda-bing badda-boom
23:16 < Haled> jprjr, thanks
23:16 < bls> birkoff: Chapter 6 of http://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf
23:16 < Haled> birkoff, thanks
23:17 < kurahaupo> A swap partition may still be useful if you want to "suspend to disk"
23:17 < jprjr> Alternatively, just resize /dev/sda1 to like 500MB or something, reformat it, make it your new /boot partition
23:17 < Haled> jprjr, for speed or something?
23:17 < jprjr> Then move /dev/sda2, expand /dev/sda3, then you're not stuck with weirdly-numbered partitions that start at 2
23:17 < V7> Hey all
23:18 < Haled> because it's the beginning of the disk?
23:18 < V7> Could anyone suggest a linux without cx8 and cmox CPU instructions ?
23:18 < jprjr> Nah I just like having a separate /boot partition, always have
23:18 < V7> cmov *
23:18 < birkoff> 500mb is overkill for /boot not?
23:18 < jprjr> It's probably not really necessary tbh
23:18 < ayecee> that would be a distribution that supports i586 processors
23:19 < jprjr> birkoff: Well that's why I said "or something". I've filled up 100MB boot partitions before so I tend to stick with like, 500MB
23:19 < jprjr> It's virtually nothing in terms of total disk space so who care
23:19 < kurahaupo> I like to have at least two root partitions, with /home & /var separate, so that I can upgrade & roll back.
23:20 < jprjr> I do think having a separate /boot is needed when you get into setting up full-disk encryption, root on LVM, etc
23:20 < jprjr> Key phrase "think", I'd have to research specifics
23:21 < Haled> jprjr, stack exchange agrees with you https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/256/is-it-good-to-make-a-separate-partition-for-boot
23:22 < kurahaupo> jprjr: /boot must not be encrypted; whether it can be managed through LVM I haven't checked lately, but the answer used to be "no"
23:23 < Namarrgon> when you use a recent version of grub then /boot can be encrypted, but then you might not want to split out /boot in the first place
23:23 < bls> I've been seeing reports of encrypted /boot also taking minutes to decrypt
23:25 < Namarrgon> if you run it on a potato, sure
23:25 < Namarrgon> the key derivation count makes it "slow", if you don't have a fast cpu then pick a lower count
23:26 < searedvandal> I did the whole encrypt everything for a while, and I can't say that it took any significant amount of time to decrypt boot or root
23:27 < bls> not saying it's an issue, just some people obsess over the 30 seconds - 2 minutes of booting they do compared to the hours they spend using the computer once booted
23:28 < searedvandal> sure, if you boot multiple times a day it can be annoying, I guess.
23:31 < V7> ayecee: Thank you, but ubuntu-14.04-server-i386 tells that it needs same instructions
23:31 < ayecee> V7: despite the name, that's for i686 and above
23:32 < V7> oh dear
23:32 < V7> Whata a confuse
23:32 < V7> Thank you very much ayecee
23:34 < V7> By the way, is there any was to know which instrunctions needs each kernel ?
23:35 < bls> i386 is the traditional name used for 32-bit x86. some distros started using i486 or i586 as old i386/486 cpu features got dropped from the kernel, but not all
23:37 < V7> birkoff: So, is there ay possibility to get a set of instruction of specific kernel ?
23:37 < V7> For example, for Kernel 3.2 ?
23:37 < V7> Does it need pae, cx8, cmov ?
23:38 < birkoff> what?
23:39 < V7> I mean, what's the way to know if this kernel/OS will work on specific CPU
23:39 < RayTracer> you try to run it
23:39 < birkoff> you must have meant addressing bls , V7
23:39 < V7> For example, ayecee told that i586 doesn't need cx8 and cmov instructions
23:39 < V7> birkoff:, oh, sorry
23:40 < bls> the kernel will include support for all the instructions it can leverage, and will use other instructions/workarounds when they're absent
23:41 < bls> it's when those workarounds start getting dropped that old CPUs lose support
23:42 < V7> bls: Yes, but why then I can't install OS which needs cx8 and cmov instruction ?
23:42 < V7> instructions *
23:42 < V7> There should be a way to check which kernel needs correct set of instructions
23:45 < kexec> hello please for christ sake, how to get cron running on windows bash? i keep the bash instance opened, cron service is running, user is in crontab group
23:45 < twainwek> kexec: sorry but i gotta say this, the easiest way is to stop using windows
23:46 < bls> kexec: going to need to ask a windows or wsl related channel
23:47 < kexec> yeah i am aware of that :D but still id like to fix it
23:48 < bls> the kernel calls out which architectures it supports. it doesn't call out the individual instructions introduced/dropped from those architectures
23:50 < bls> so the lack of CMOV means it at least requires i586 support, which some distros have dropped
23:50 < V7> bls: So there's no way to get if it needs cx8 instruction or not ?
23:50 < V7> Oh, the instruction is not for kernel, but for distro ?
23:50 < birkoff> kexec whats the problem ?
23:51 < V7> bls: How did you know that CMOV for i586 ?
23:51 < kexec> birkoff: it a wget cron but it does nothing
23:51 < birkoff> kexec in the last windows update you could run background tasks without a terminal open
23:51 < bls> different distros can apply/remove patches and config items as they see fit, so some drop old processor support to slim down their kernel
23:51 < birkoff> kexec show us your crontab
23:51 < bls> V7: https://askubuntu.com/questions/5807/what-is-the-significance-of-the-cmov-cpu-instruction
23:52 < V7> bls: Oh, so they can modify kernel and remove staf from them and it will be called as custom kernel ?
23:52 < bls> V7: correct
23:52 < V7> So, kernel supports all instructions by default ?
23:53 < kexec> birkoff:
23:53 < kexec> * * * * * /usr/bin/wget http://<sth>.pdf --output-document=/home/user/document_`date +%Y-%m-%d_%H:%M:%S`.pdf
23:53 < bls> no, the vanilla kernel can also pick and choose, they've recent dropped i386 support
23:53 < bls> hehe, recently as in 6 years ago
23:54 < V7> Time goes fast
23:54 < birkoff> i thought linux was all about supporting weird or out of date hardware
23:55 < V7> bls: IS there a way to check which hardware support which kernel ?
23:55 < triceratux> linux still supports plenty of weird or outofdate hardware
23:55 < V7> I mean, each kernel *
23:55 < bls> it is, until you reach the point where it's impossible to run the current system on such hardware, then you drop it from the mainline to save time and effort. people will fork from that point if they still want to keep it working
23:55 < birkoff> kexec you would have to wait for someone who is more proficient in cron than me, meanwhile try to see if there actually is a cron instance running in the background and monitor your logs to see if it is executed and what is reported
23:56 < benjwadams> Is there any way to view what sort of things are stored in swap?
23:56 < bls> this likely isn't a cron issue and is more of a WSL issue
23:56 < birkoff> you cant know for sure bls
23:56 < benjwadams> I'm trying to figure out why swap usage is so high
23:56 < birkoff> although I had this idea about a Freenode WSL channel for quite some time
23:56 < V7> benjwadams: Doesn't it mean a RAM ?
23:56 < bls> no we can't, because we have no clue how to debug/triage things like this on windows
23:57 < benjwadams> I guess i could use dd :)
23:57 < V7> Check in "htop" and sort by "RAM"
23:57 < simbalion> I seem to have done something that has made all my F# keys no longer usable for their functions, however the keys themselves are still working?
23:58 < bls> simbalion: does your keyboard/bios have the Fn modifier key or Fn-lock?
23:58 < simbalion> bls: it's an apple keyboard, I'm still learning how it works but it does have an Fn key
23:58 < jada> hey, I'm looking for a good cheap linux laptop only for skype/ssh/web. I'm finding some x230 thinkpads on craigslist in $150-$200 price range, do you people know of some alternatives? Maybe some chromebooks?
23:59 < jada> I wouldn't mind eMMC and/or AMD/ARM cpu
23:59 < kexec> birkoff: i can see cron in "ps -A". and i couldnt find any logs, "/var/log/syslog" doesnt exist
23:59 < benjwadams> V7: that's not what i want
23:59 < bls> simbalion: ah, in macOS you there's a setting for whether the top keys are the control keys or function keys by default, then you need to hold Fn down to get the other behavior
--- Log closed Wed Jun 20 00:00:00 2018