--- Log opened Thu Jun 21 00:00:06 2018
00:00 < birdbolt1> from docker docs: "Note: If your service specifies a build option, variables defined in environment are not automatically visible during the build. Use the args sub-option of build to define build-time environment variables."
00:00 < birdbolt1> i set variables under args, under build, and the dockerfile still doesnt see them
00:00 < birdbolt1> please help
00:00 < birdbolt1> I've been shamefully stuck on this for about an hour now
00:01 < bls> nekoexmachina: https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/411216
00:01 < bls> birdbolt1: try #docker if no one here knows
00:02 < nekoexmachina> thanks
00:02 < nekoexmachina> bls
00:03 < bls> margin, padding, or letterboxing would be the terms (assuming you don't mean cutting a "hole" in the middle the screen)
00:05 < birdbolt1> bls, no one responding in docker for a while
00:06 < birdbolt1> man I feel so retarded when i get tripped by these little things
00:09 < gbellinoz> birdbolt1: if you could be a birdy on the shoulder of most linux geeks, I think you'd see that's normal :)
00:09 < akd> Hi
00:09 < akd> I have this command
00:09 < akd> git for-each-ref --sort=-committerdate refs/heads/ --format='%(refname:short)' | awk 'length($0) <39' | xargs git branch -D
00:09 < akd> It can fail if xargs cmd have no result
00:09 < akd> can I do
00:09 < akd> git for-each-ref --sort=-committerdate refs/heads/ --format='%(refname:short)' | awk 'length($0) <39' | xargs git branch -D || echo true ?
00:09 < akd> or
00:09 < akd> $(git for-each-ref --sort=-committerdate refs/heads/ --format='%(refname:short)' | awk 'length($0) <39' | xargs git branch -D) || true
00:09 < akd> >
00:09 < akd> ?
00:10 < bls> akd: to a paste bin with you
00:16 < d1zz> how can I find out the rate of data transfer that's occuring in a particular connection?
00:16 < d1zz> I can see the connection with ss -tnp
00:16 < d1zz> now I wanna see the rate
00:17 < bls> d1zz: iftop, iptraf, nethogs
00:18 < V7> Is it possible to unmount by UUID ?
00:19 < benjwadams> Are there any utilities which can report historical swap i/o usage?
00:19 < benjwadams> `sar` would come to mind, but i think it's only total disk I/O
00:21 < bls> what about iostat?
00:22 < ExeciN> can anyone explain this to me? Imports are automatically read from the filesystem, but it is also possible to remap paths using the context:prefix=path syntax.
00:22 < ExeciN> I don't understand the context:prefix=path thing
00:23 < bls> ExeciN: you're lacking some context. imports of what? remap what paths?
00:23 < ExeciN> I'm using solc, here is a sample output https://gist.github.com/nicexe/f14318e0ee8b2ce74547bafc2b683a42
00:24 < ExeciN> IContractID.sol is one directory above the current working directory
00:24 < bls> ExeciN: are you intending to ask this in ##linux or somewhere else?
00:25 < ExeciN> to be honest I'm not sure if it fits here
00:26 < bls> I have no idea what you're asking about. from google, it appears to be something javascript related. might try one of the JS-centric channels
00:27 < thatpythonguy> does anyone know what language .vimrc is written in? if it helps, a double quotation mark begins a comment
00:28 < bb36e> thatpythonguy: VimL?
00:28 < bls> thatpythonguy: vimscript
00:28 < thatpythonguy> i did not know that was a thing. thanks!
00:29 < bls> although you don't have to use it, there are bindings to better languages
00:31 < bb36e> I believe neovim also allows lua
00:32 < Cache_Money> Anyone know how to change my terminal (iterm2 on Mac) so that it display the directory path before the $? Currently, it has my computer_name:current_directory
00:32 < thatpythonguy> you should check out powerline
00:33 < gbellinoz> Cache_Money:  what shell?
00:33 < lnnb> on mac eh?
00:34 < Cache_Money> gbellinoz: I use bash within iTerm2 on OSX
00:34 < gbellinoz> so man bash
00:34 < iflema> Cache_Money: what happens if you    echo $PS1
00:35 < Cache_Money> iflema:  \h:\W \u\$
00:35 < gbellinoz> search for "PROMPTING"
00:35 < lnnb> and search the bash manual for "PROMPTING"
00:35 < lnnb> oof, with the quick draww
00:36 < Cache_Money> Okay, thanks!
00:40 < Tech_8> hi
00:40 < searedvandal> hi
00:41 < jim> hi
00:41 < ChrisVim> :fset
00:42 < bls> Cache_Money: 1) ##macosx 2) https://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prompt-HOWTO/
00:44 < Alayde> Is anyone around to help with a *hopefully* simple LVM question? I'm trying to pvmove a 1.1T volume to a 4.5T volume, and even though the free PE far exeecds what's needed LVM is still complaining about being unable to move the volume due to lack of free extents.
00:44 < Alayde> http://pastebin.centos.org/858621/ < some of the relevant info
00:44 < Alayde> Oddly enough two other volumes (/dev/fioc and /dev/fiod), which are the same size, are able to be pvmoved (as in, pvmove doesn't complain when I try)
00:45 < jim> Alayde, you're trying to move a pv?
00:45 < Alayde> Correct
00:46 < jim> the pvs are in what, ppartitions?
00:46 < jim> -p
00:46 < greenbagels> Hm... `perf` is showing 0 cache references and 0 cache misses
00:46 < greenbagels> this is odd
00:46 < Alayde> It's 4 physical volumes in a single VG, which has a single LV attached to it.
00:47 < greenbagels> on a Ryzen 1700, anyone have any idea why it doesn't ahve any cache statistics at all?
00:47 < jim> ok, what partition is the live pv now?
00:47 < jim> and, what pv are you moving it to?
00:48 < jim> err restate, which partition has the pv you're moving it to?
00:48 < Alayde> There are no real partitions involved, there are volume groups- the volume group in question is vg_iomemory which contains both the source physical volume (/dev/fiob) and destination physical volume (/dev/mapper/mpathc)
00:49 < jim> ok, I don't understand yet... what are you using pvmove to do?
00:50 < Alayde> To literally move data from 1 physical volume to another
00:50 < jim> could you show the pvmove command line you used, and pastebin any output you got from that command?
00:51 < Alayde> pastebin.centos.org/858621/
00:51 < iflema> thanks jim
00:51 < jim> iflema, welcome... umm, what I doo?!
00:52 < iflema> nothing...
00:55 < iflema> just luv
00:55 < iflema> free...
00:55 < jim> ok, so you have two PVs, /dev/mapper/mpathc and /dev/fiob
00:56 < jim> and you're trying to move stuff from the second to the first
00:56  * iflema its dead jim...
00:57 < Alayde> jim: don't worry about it man, I got it figured out
00:57 < Alayde> you take care!
01:14 < Henry151> howdy ##linux
01:15 < Henry151> I just spun up a VPS to play with, with debian 9, and I'm building https://github.com/iovisor/bcc/ to play with it
01:15 < Henry151> I'm in way way way over my head XD but I'm having fun and learning
01:16 < Henry151> I watched this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRFNIKUROPE 4 times in a row last night and still felt like I was grasping only maybe about 10% of it but I wanna learn
01:17 < bb36e> nifty, who's your provider?
01:17 < Psi-Jack> Guess he didn't wanna know afterall.
01:18 < Henry151> for the VPS? I use vultr
01:18 < Henry151> Psi-Jack: lol, right
01:18 < Psi-Jack> Oh, fairly good choice. ;)
01:18 < Henry151> yeah they seem good
01:18 < Psi-Jack> Not perfect, but nobody is.
01:19 < Henry151> I have three (now four with this new one I'm playing with) through them, and another through Gandi.net
01:19 < Psi-Jack> Vultr, though is one I tend to recommend for their prices.
01:19 < Henry151> I use two of the others to run live trade-bots to trade cryptocurrency, and the third I use to run a genetic algorithm to find optimal parameters for the tradebots
01:20 < Psi-Jack> ...
01:20 < Henry151> then the gandi.net one I use to keep irssi running, mostly, and to host a couple websites
01:20 < Psi-Jack> What a waste. *shakes his head.
01:20 < gbellinoz> Henry151: are you doing packet filtering at that of a level?  I'm only a few minutes in so maybe I haven't got the point yet.
01:20 < Henry151> right I could probably do them all on one machine
01:20 < Henry151> gbellinoz: no, I'm nowhere near that level
01:20 < Psi-Jack> No, the crypto-"currency" part. :p
01:21 < gbellinoz> ("that low of a level")
01:21 < gbellinoz> So why do you like that talk?
01:21 < Henry151> but I really liked some of the stuff he showed how with his tools you can see what a program is doing on a different level
01:21 < Henry151> I really want to use it for the stuff he called "observation" I think
01:21 < Henry151> observability
01:22 < Henry151> if you jump to like 3:35 theirs a diagram thing
01:22 < Henry151> the observability part was what I was most fascinated by
01:22 < Henry151> I want to observe my genetic algorithm and the trade bots to learn more about how they do what they do
01:22 < gbellinoz> He's at that part now (the demo)....
01:23 < Henry151> I understand there are other tools that can do that sort of stuff, but I figure, a good chance to learn about this BPF thing and it might be good knowledge to have going forward
01:23 < gbellinoz> You have some sort of distributed genetic solver and you want to watch the packets sent between?
01:23 < Henry151> no it's not distributed
01:24 < solidfox> do you guys like music?
01:24 < Henry151> I want to run like the "execsnoop" while it's running, and the "opensnoop" and stuff, and just see what the programs are doing
01:24 < solidfox> Under the sea parody: "Program in C" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tas0O586t80&feature=share
01:24 < Henry151> the tradebots and the GA are built in nodejs
01:25 < gbellinoz> execsnoop seems like a must-have.  There's not a way to do that already?
01:25 < Henry151> anyway i'm as far in over my head as you could imagine, I am like a toddler trying to read a college textbook on biology, i'm just oohing and ahh-ing over the pictures and trying to grasp at what it all is
01:26 < gbellinoz> that's the learning curve for ya!
01:26 < Henry151> gbellinoz: I understand there are other ways to do that
01:26 < gbellinoz> I'm 20 years in and still find plenty of topics to do that with.
01:26 < Kwicster> Henry151: how hard was building the tradebot? Did you do it all manually?
01:27 < Henry151> Kwicster: I am using the open-source platform called Gekko; it still took me months to figure out how to use it at all, and months more to get a strategy that would backtest reasonably well, and weeks more to get the GA running and get parameters that I liked enough to run on live accounts
01:27 < Henry151> and so far I haven't made any profits
01:27 < Psi-Jack> There is no profit in crypto-"currency", only expense. :p
01:28 < Henry151> but the backtest results were good some months, not as good others, but did well over long periods of data (like 1 year +)
01:28 < Psi-Jack> All for a fake.
01:28 < Henry151> Psi-Jack: lol, I have lifted myself out of poverty through cryptocurrency, been a passionate advocate and enthusiast since late 2010/early 2011
01:29 < mophed> Henry151: i dont like to gamble with my money
01:29 < Henry151> I'm just trying to get better profits than I already make with manual trading, by automating some of my strategies.
01:29 < Psi-Jack> Heh
01:29 < mophed> crypto is very interesting though
01:29 < Kwicster> Henry151: haha fair enough, didn't think that it would be very easy, been thinking about making same
01:29 < Psi-Jack> Crypto-currency is /just/ gambling.
01:29 < Aph3x-WL> cryptocurrencies are the most annoying scam this decade
01:29 < Loshki> Erm, buy bitcoin 2 years ago, and property 30 years ago.
01:29 < Kwicster> its annoying to hear coworkers constantly talking about every swing
01:30 < Henry151> Kwicster: I am running a variant of the RSI-BULL-BEAR-ADX strategy written by tommiehansen. You can find lots of info in the forums. Just search for Gekko tradebot.
01:30 < mophed> one of my co-workers has made a ton mining etherium.
01:30 < Aph3x-WL> a ton of debt?
01:30 < Psi-Jack> Heh
01:30 < Loshki> I've lost money mining perineum
01:30 < mophed> Aph3x-WL: he just bought 2 brand new trucks with eth coins he cashed out
01:30 < Henry151> I literally made more from bitcoin in the month of December than I made at my day job in the whole year.
01:31 < mophed> i think he has 60 GPU's running
01:31 < Aph3x-WL> that's pretty sad and not something you should admit
01:31 < Henry151> Why not?
01:31 < bls> that's how ponzi schemes and speculation work. pray you're one of the early ones
01:31 < Henry151> I don't get what you feel is sad about it.
01:31 < Henry151> good god.
01:31 < Psi-Jack> crypto-"currency" is a great savings plan. You spend all the money it takes to "mine", into a crypto-"wallet", and finally "cash out".
01:31 < gbellinoz> Last time I heard "all my coworkers talking" about something it was tech stocks and the years were 1997-2000.
01:31 < Henry151> the USD is a ponzi scheme, y'all laugh your way to the bank, bring a wheelbarrow, you'll need it soon
01:32 < Aph3x-WL> because if you're making more money gambling than at your day job, you took a wrong turn somewhere in life
01:32 < Henry151> XD
01:32 < gzuh> i wouldn't need a wheelbarrow to empty my bank account. my wallet would work fine haha :`(
01:32 < mophed> i think i remember him telling me that the next thing to mine was electrnium. i dont ever really listen.
01:32 < gbellinoz> Every online crypto exchange wants a ton of ID that I don't really want to send over the internet and have saved on some startup's servers.
01:33 < mophed> he did tell me one time. Buy bit coin TODAY! i didnt listen. the coin rose 2.5k that same day :(
01:33 < bls> gbellinoz: only for them to get hacked and take all your money
01:33 < gbellinoz> This is what Henry151 is referring to:  https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/hyperinflation-weimar-republic-1922/
01:33 < ace510> @mophed: you're saving yourself  a ton of tax related headaches
01:33 < revel> And ID, don't forget that.
01:33 < gbellinoz> Oddly been a long time coming, given the policies for the last 10 yeras.
01:34 < Kwicster> there is always someone making money that you arent making lol, no point in being worried about that sort of stuff
01:34 < Henry151> All humor aside, I think it's a paradigm shift, and I thought so when they were only a few pennies each. A bitcoin is more than $6000 today. It's not about gambling, it's about seeing a new thing and understanding what it's going to do to the world before the people around you do. Most people who buy it now are just buying it to get rich quick, and that's foolish; but with an understanding of it, I think
01:34 < mophed> ace510: for sure. its really easy to say what if. or i should have done this. but it could have tanked 2.5K same day as well. thats why i cant mess with it
01:34 < Henry151> it's a good investment at any price under about $10K, this year anyway.
01:34  * gzuh /close #bitcoin
01:35 < Psi-Jack> Henry151: It's 100% gambling.
01:35 < Psi-Jack> Literally...
01:35 < mophed> ^^
01:35 < mophed> agreead
01:35 < Henry151> actually this kind of conversation wouldn't be tolerated there XD maybe #bitcoin-pricetalk or my channel, #churchofbitcoin
01:35 < gbellinoz> Henry151: the power consumption issue bugs me.
01:35  * bls traded all his BTC for Beanie Babies and baseball cards...give me 15 years and I'll be a billionaire
01:36 < Henry151> yeah, that's ok. I'll still be in this chatroom in twenty years. Let's talk again at that time and see who was right, and which bitcoin wallet you use when you buy your coffee.
01:36 < ace510> @Henry151: hate to break it to you, the anti-establishment types that like Linux also like their untraceable currencies, so the two things are always gonna go hand in hand
01:37 < Henry151> anyway I just popped in here to pass the time while BCC was compiling
01:37 < Henry151> and it's done now so I'm gonna go play with it
01:37 < ace510> ooh, what's BCC?
01:37 < Henry151> I'm gonna come back later though and ask you guys to help me learn how to use docker, too
01:37 < Henry151> https://github.com/iovisor/bcc/
01:37 < gbellinoz> Docker's GREAT.  Not sure why you'd need it though.
01:38 < gbellinoz> and, there's #docker.
01:38 < Kwicster> oh man docker's fun. Just watch out for priv escalation exploit haha
01:38 < ace510> actually this kind of conversation wouldn't be tolerated theremaybe #docker or my channel, #churchofdocker
01:38 < Henry151> gbellinoz: I'd just like to know how to use it; it seems like the last few things I got into had a "dockerfile" in their github repo, and I have never used it
01:38 < jim> hate to break it to ya,,, linux has no hands
01:38 < Aph3x-WL> bitcoin won't exist in 20 years
01:39 < gbellinoz> predictions won't exist in 20 years
01:39 < mophed> Aph3x-WL: you never know..
01:39 < mophed> i prolly wont exist in 20 years
01:39 < Loshki>  /j #brothelofbitcoin
01:39 < Aph3x-WL> it won't
01:39 < Aph3x-WL> it'll be replaced by something dumber
01:39 < gbellinoz> #dudewheresmybitcoin
01:39 < Psi-Jack> Nah, I think in 20 years people will finally wise up and stop the madness.
01:40 < revel> What about in 19 years?
01:40 < Aph3x-WL> Psi-Jack: that's what they've been saying for thousands of years :P
01:40 < jim> that's the year the dollar is replaced by the bitcoin
01:41 < Henry151> I will have a record of this conversation still, in twenty years, and be able to present it to you if you're still hanging out in here :P
01:41 < Aph3x-WL> it'll be replaced by trump coin, in 20 years he is the supreme overlord of the solar system
01:41 < gbellinoz> I'll have sold my tulip bulbs and pets.com stock by then.
01:41 < Henry151> I just got tarsnap all set up a few weeks ago, I'm pretty pumped about it
01:41 < jim> in 21 years, records won't exist...
01:41 < gbellinoz> tarsnap - cool!
01:42 < Henry151> it was fun.
01:42 < gbellinoz> I've rolled my own out of desperation, using encfs and rsync.
01:42 < gbellinoz> would love to replace it with something better.
01:42 < Henry151> it's just my style, I love the whole picodollars thing
01:42 < bls> gbellinoz: looked at borg?
01:42 < Henry151> gbellinoz: why roll your own? what's wrong with tarsnap?
01:42 < Psi-Jack> borg is awesome stuff. :)
01:42 < gbellinoz> bls: no, what is it? (too general to google it!)
01:42 < bls> gbellinoz: https://www.borgbackup.org
01:43 < Psi-Jack> borgbackup.
01:43 < Psi-Jack> You will be assimilated.
01:43 < gbellinoz> Henry151: just said "cool" meaning I didn't know about it :)   Plus, how do I know everything leaves my computer encrypted?  "truly paranoid" means I don't want to use backup software.
01:43 < SMOK3> Any idea why setting path in .profile doesn't work but export does?
01:43 < ace510> @SMOK3: because you're SSHed in?
01:43 < bls> SMOK3: just adding it to the file doesn't change the current one, you have to re-source the file
01:44 < SMOK3> ace510, Not SSHed... using Bash on Windows.
01:44 < jim> SMOK3, maybe... you have a shell that doesn't read .profile?
01:44 < bls> oh, this is on windows? all bets are off then
01:45 < SMOK3> jim, No it echos the same path before export.
01:45 < mophed> bash on windows?
01:45 < gbellinoz> Speaking of tarsnap and BTC:  http://mail.tarsnap.com/tarsnap-announce/msg00042.html
01:45 < ace510> @SMOK3: profile stuff in WSL generally needs to be in .profile_rc
01:45 < SMOK3> bls, How do you resource something?
01:45 < bls> SMOK3: no clue, maybe try ##windows-wsl
01:45 < ace510> because when you're in you're using a non login shell
01:46 < ace510> @SMOK3: what are you trying to add?
01:47 < mophed> https://www.linuxnix.com/how-login-process-work-in-linux/
01:47 < SMOK3> Trying to add GOPATH... GOPATH="$HOME" echos right but go install doesn't work unless I export GOPATH=$HOME.
01:47 < bls> except he's not on linux
01:48 < Psi-Jack> SMOK3: WSL is not supported here.
01:48 < SMOK3> Psi-Jack, Sorry lol. I figured it was the same... and you guys would know :)
01:48 < Psi-Jack> Because.. Well, it;'s not Linux.
01:48 < SMOK3> It's the linux soul.
01:48 < Psi-Jack> No.
01:48 < SMOK3> :(
01:49 < bls> SMOK3: there are enough subtle differences that make it better to ask in a better suited channel
01:49 < Psi-Jack> There is 0% Linux in WSL
01:49 < Loshki> I'd be frightened for your personal safety were you to ask in #bash
01:49 < SMOK3> LOL
01:49 < ace510> @Psi-Jack; lol wut?
01:49 < lnnb> it's more GNU than linux
01:49 < lnnb> it copies the API
01:50 < lnnb> that's it
01:50 < Psi-Jack> ace510: wut wut?
01:50 < lnnb> a subset of the api
01:50 < SMOK3> Ok, well, I'll ask this then here... any preferences to Ubuntu or Fedora? I'll download one or the other I suppose.
01:50 < Psi-Jack> Definitely Fedora.
01:50 < revel> The one that's good.
01:50 < SMOK3> Ok :) why's that?
01:51 < revel> Because it's the good one.
01:51 < Psi-Jack> Less face-slapping.
01:51 < SMOK3> Good enough reason for me.
01:51 < SMOK3> (s)
01:51 < revel> Thought so.
01:51 < bls> because one it's gooder than the other, don't pick the bad one, people will mock you for your choice
01:51 < Henry151> if I can't kill a process by hitting ctrl-C is there another key combination I can use to send a more forceful interrupt of some sort?
01:51 < Henry151> I know I can kill it with kill or pkill or killall
01:51 < searedvandal> since everyone is saying Fedora, I'll be the one that says Ubuntu
01:52 < Henry151> but I'm wondering if there's a stronger signal I can send from the same terminal
01:52 < gzuh> Henry151: sometimes ^d will do it. you probably want to kill it tho
01:52 < ace510> Ubuntu definately wins the google 'how do I run ___ in linux' battle
01:52 < revel> So more people have trouble running stuff in it then? :P
01:53 < Henry151> it's "debuild" and it is hanging on one of the tests a the end of the build but I think from some googling about it that it's a problem with the test definition and doesn't actually represent a problem with the build
01:53 < gzuh> hehe. in arch i can pretty much just yaourt anything i need
01:53 < gbellinoz> Henry151: Ctrl-\
01:53 < gbellinoz> that's sending a KILL signal, whereas Ctrl-C is just a HUP
01:53 < gbellinoz> (hang up)
01:53 < fryguy> those are def not the signals
01:54 < Loshki> Henry151: it is possible to create zombie processes that cannot be killed. Almost always a programming error.
01:54 < revel> gzuh: I don't think that's much better than just adding a bunch of random PPAs.
01:54 < revel> Third-party/community software, after all.
01:54 < gzuh> revel: it's certainly less work than adding ppas
01:54 < Henry151> I was able to kill it just now with a kill command from another terminal but I was just curious if there was some key-combination I was overlooking, I'll experiment with those later, thanks guys
01:54 < bls> haha
01:55 < revel> You invariably end up adding third-party software on Arch regardless, unlike on many other distros.
01:55 < bls> so. much. strenuous. work.
01:55 < gzuh> it saves you a google
01:55 < kerframil> gbellinoz: no. ^C = INT, ^\ = QUIT
01:55 < gbellinoz> kerframil: ah
01:55 < revel> On many other distros, you don't end up having to use third-party repos in the first place.
01:55 < bls> and you get a good bit of scorn for using things outside the main repos
01:56 < kerframil> gbellinoz: stty -a
01:57 < gzuh> i've only been using arch for 6 months, but i have yet to find any major issues with it. aside from the pain it is to set up. but linux is a hobby for me as well as an os, so i don't mind getting my hands dirty from time to time
01:57 < Psi-Jack> Sweet. My new ALFA USB WiFi device came in today, and it's finally got the proper ath9k chipset in it I was aiming to get.
01:57 < gbellinoz> kerframil:  I haven't used stty for years!  Talk about an anachronism.  "serial teletype terminal".    But that's a good summary.  The shell and/or readline don't override any of those?
01:58 < gbellinoz> ^O seems to be the same as enter, not 'discard' as stty -a shows.
02:02 < Henry151> ok guys, maybe somebody smart can help me with this
02:03 < kerframil> gbellinoz: discard is a curiosity. I don't think it actually does anything in Linux, but it does allow ^O to propagate. I imagine it's being handled by readline here.
02:03 < Henry151> https://github.com/iovisor/bcc/blob/master/FAQ.txt line 13 through 17, that's the problem I'm having; so I'm trying what they recommend, but when I run the command, I get
02:03 < Henry151>   File "/home/henry/bcc/examples/hello_world.py", line 9, in <module>
02:03 < Henry151>     from bcc import BPF
02:04 < gbellinoz> On the plus side, I just learned that a empty ARG to trap swallows the signal.
02:04 < Henry151> however, I already did pip install bcc
02:04 < gbellinoz> trap '' SIGINT
02:04 < gbellinoz> Not sure why I would do that to someone, but interesting.
02:05 < kerframil> it can be useful for critical sections in scripts
02:06 < xamithan> Did you install it on the right one ?
02:06 < gbellinoz> kerframil: does Ctrl-D send a signal?
02:06 < Henry151> i was first having the error, "No module named bcc," so I did "pip install bcc" inside the virtualenv
02:06 < xamithan> There is usually multiple python versions installed ina  system
02:06 < Henry151> I made a virtualenv, and am doing all this from inside it, I think
02:06 < bls> Ctrl-D sends EOT, not a signal
02:06 < Henry151> i'm pretty new at virtualenv anyway, so I could be doing something wrong there
02:07 < gbellinoz> or EOF
02:07 < Henry151> lol y'all are still talking about keyboard interrupt signals
02:07 < Henry151> nice
02:07 < gbellinoz> interesting.  Because everything, even communication between a STDIO and a shell, is a "file"
02:07 < kerframil> gbellinoz: yeah, EOF (0x04)
02:07 < Henry151> gbellinoz: I quite agree, everything is a file, even you and I
02:07 < Henry151> we are just data
02:07 < gbellinoz> Henry151: You'll care when you get into writing stuff inside a Docker container.
02:08 < kerframil> gbellinoz: I meant yeah in response to the preceding discussion - not that it's a signal
02:08 < gbellinoz> plus, my motto is "what I don't know will eventually bite me in the ass and cost 5+ hours while a client is waiting"
02:09 < bls> always appreciated the symmetry of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII#Character_set  ... Ctrl+A == SOH, Ctrl+D == EOT, Ctrl+G == Bell, Ctrl+L == FF
02:09 < gbellinoz> G == Bell
02:09 < gbellinoz> sorry, I have to point that out when it comes up.
02:10 < bls> point out what?
02:10 < gzuh> probably bc their name
02:11 < gbellinoz> Thanks gzuh .  You prevented me from the embarassment of having to explain something so lame.
02:14 < Psi-Jack> gzuh: "because". Using standard English here is actually an important thing to do.
02:15 < gzuh> Psi-Jack: i'm sorry. i forgot. thanks for the reminder
02:20 < Psi-Jack> hmmm. The carpal tunnel programmed mode for this iTENS is pretty interesting...
02:20 < gbellinoz> link?
02:21 < gbellinoz> so borgbackup + S3 or tarsnap?  Hmmm....
02:21 < gbellinoz> Having endured the time cost of switching backup schemes a few times, I'm scared.
02:21 < Psi-Jack> S3? Nah. b2
02:22 < gbellinoz> Psi-Jack: because?
02:22 < Psi-Jack> Cost?
02:27 < dviola> gzuh: bc is an arbitrary precision numeric processing language, what about it?
02:28 < gzuh> yeah yeah yeah, i learned my lesson
02:29 < gbellinoz> So I should have said "plus" above instead of +   Got it.
02:29 < gbellinoz> And not "Nah" but "no" for Psi-Jack
02:29 < Henry151> well i just figured out docker, man, it's super easy
02:29 < Henry151> setting up bcc with docker was so quick and easy, I had been trying for twenty minutes without it and failing
02:30 < bls> download a backdoored docker image, run it, and mine coin for someone else :P
02:31 < searedvandal> that's how you make someone else a few cents extra
02:31 < Henry151> bls: good warning, indeed
02:32 < Henry151> it was this: https://github.com/iovisor/bcc/blob/master/QUICKSTART.md
02:43 < hatp> I'm using this script ( https://paste.linux.community/view/d295bf55 ) to create a control group to create applications which bypass my VPN. But these applications run as root for some reason. Any way I can run them under my own account?
02:44 < jim> hatp, could it be the script is running as root/
02:44 < jim> ?
02:45 < hatp> jim: yes
02:45 < hatp> but some of the commands wouldn't work unless i was actually logged in as root
02:46 < hatp> I think line #3 would just fail even with sudo
02:46 < jim> so some of them need root to run?
02:46 < hatp> ok, I'll try 2 scripts, one as root and one without and see if that works
02:47 < jim> line 2, the mkdir, probably needs root as well
02:50 < jim> in fact.. everything but line 25 needs root?
02:53 < dannylee> ,,
02:53 < revel> What a nice CSV file.
02:55 < jim> hatp, in fact the exit on line 22 means the thing on line 25 won't run
02:58 < Henry151> so guys -- somebody help me plz -- if I'm running bcc inside a docker container, and I run one of the commands, like opensnoop for example, will it give me information about a process that's running outside the docker, but on the host machine?
02:58 < Henry151> i'm just not sure i understand what is all going on with it well enough to know
02:58 < Henry151> i suspect that it will not
02:59 < hatp> jim: weird. anyway, creating the control group as non-root didn't work anyway
03:01 < Henry151> oh boy
03:01 < Henry151> i answered my own question
03:01 < Henry151> and man i like the answer
03:01 < Henry151> it does work on things running outside the container
03:01 < jim> hatp, before I found the exit, it looked to me like everything but line 25 had to run as root
03:01 < Henry151> so I can just spin up a docker container on my already-running VPS, and immediately start using these tools to monitor my already-running applications
03:01 < Henry151> this is freakin sweet
03:02 < Henry151> i am excited
03:04 < Henry151> there's gotta be other ways to do what this does: https://github.com/iovisor/bcc/blob/master/tools/opensnoop_example.txt
03:05 < Henry151> but this is so cool to me as I haven't ever done it before
03:05 < Henry151> I'm super pumped about this guys. I feel like I will learn much more quickly, now that I have these tools to help me understand what a given application is actually doing
03:05 < msiism> i have a good-practice question about handling parameters in command-line tools: say you have a program that makes use of a text editor (like vi, nano etc.) and the user can specify the editor to be used by a particular instance of the program through a switch '-e'. that switch would normally take <editor> as an argument. but if it's given as the last paremeter and without the argument, what should i do? print an error message and ex
03:05 < msiism> r just ignore it, execute the script and try to use one of the specified default editors (which would be nano or vi). i tend to think the latter is the better way.
03:06 < gbellinoz> that's cool Henry151
03:06 < gbellinoz> not sure why you need docker though.
03:07 < Henry151> gbellinoz: I was having issues getting it to work; I had python problems like "no module bcc" and then "unable to impor BPF from bcc" even though I had installed bcc with pip install already... I couldn't figure it out
03:07 < Henry151> and the build was hanging during the tests at the end so i wasn't even sure if it had built it properly
03:07 < Henry151> i couldn't get around it
03:07 < Henry151> but running the docker thing made it instantly all work perfectly
03:08 < Henry151> first time using docker but I like it, it was easy enough to install and then super easy to use
03:09 < donbright> msiism have you considered just reading the EDITOR environment variable?
03:10 < zaratustra> is it possible to turn off a laptop screen when closing the lid when not running X?
03:11 < gbellinoz> Henry151: ah, you're talking about using software packaged up in a docker image... yes, much easier than configure/make/make install, and even cleaner oftentimes than a distro's repo.
03:12 < msiism> donbright: well, i have but then forgot about it again. i should probably do that before using hard-coded fallbacks. thanks for the reminder! but still, what about the ignore-vs.-abort question?
03:14 < kerframil> msiism: it should fail
03:16 < msiism> kerframil: ok. what's the rationale?
03:17 < kerframil> msiism: that throwing away an option that depends on the following parameter is poor behaviour. that the option was truncated by being the final argument isn't an excuse.
03:18 < donbright> the vast majority of systems have EDITOR set, you should fix that first
03:18 < kerframil> yep
03:18 < msiism> donbright: will do.
03:19 < msiism> kerframil: ok, that sounds reasonable. i'll go by that. thanks for the explanation.
03:25 < kerframil> msiism: f() { getopts ':e:' opt; echo $?; }; f -e # note that this prints 1, indicating failure
03:25 < kerframil> msiism: whereas f -e foobar doesn't
03:28 < kerframil> msiism: similarly: getopt ':e:' -e || echo fail
03:29 < kerframil> perhaps you should be using your language's option parsing library
03:32 < Henry151> i have just discovered the command "w"
04:03 < nekoseam> How many packages do you guys have installed on your system?
04:04 < nekoseam> I have 850
04:05 < lnnb> 299 here
04:05 < lnnb> ungrouped packages
04:06 < nekoseam> lnnb: impressive!
04:06 < nekoseam> I've seen someone on 8ch/tech/ manage a fully working system with only 63
04:06 < nekoseam> Or 70, around there
04:07 < lnnb> the question is, how were their packages split up,  was Xorg one package, or 72 packages like mine
04:07 < nekoseam> not sure. it was just the image with some gentoo propoganda
04:28 < micrex22> nekoseam http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/298/779/cde.jpg
04:28 < micrex22> I always think of that
04:28 < micrex22> everytime I hear of install gentoo
04:29 < micrex22> :p
04:45 < GlenK> howdy howdy.  anyone know what's up with the #fedora channel?  it's all strange and nobody talks and tells me I can't talk and wow
04:45 < GlenK> did redhat go under or something?  fbi investigation?  ha, all very strange
04:51 < twainwek> how can i generate a new authorization entry for a given display after doing `xauth remove <hostname>:<display>`? doing `xauth generate <hostname>:<display>` returns an error saying that it can't open the display
04:52 < twainwek> GlenK: maybe you're in their unregistered room or an overflow room
04:53 < jim> GlenK, hmm, I'm not aware of them going under or anything
04:53 < jim> GlenK, you're definitely registered now
04:53 < bls> or maybe its like a lot of the other channels on here with lots of clients but no active people
04:54 < jim> what's the exact text of the message that says you can't speak?
04:55 < twainwek> i can do `xauth add <hostname:display> <protocol> <hash>`, but that's no use for me
04:56 < GlenK> aint nobody talking on fedora.  and it says can't send to channel on my end
04:56 < GlenK> odd, right?
04:57 < twainwek> works for me
04:57 < GlenK> I'm right there.  you've said nothing
04:57 < GlenK> ha, I stand corrected
04:58 < GlenK> maybe I pissed someone off in the past few days weeks or months
04:58 < GlenK> would not be out of character for me
04:59 < jim> GlenK, oh, that means you've been /quieted, or you're there without being registered, and they only allow registered users
04:59 < GlenK> that southern gentleman guy is nice as can be and he'll straighten it out if I can get a hold of him
05:00 < GlenK> he'll probably just tell me I spouted off in a drunken haze or something.  bad tendency of mine
05:00 < twainwek> GlenK: ya looks like you've been muted
05:00 < GlenK> fair enough
05:02 < jim> people won'd understand if you spout :)
05:02 < twainwek> going back to my question, i can logoff and have it regenerate the xauth, but i can't seem to do it manually without rebooting or logging off
05:02 < GlenK> haha, man, now I forgot completely what my whole issue was
05:04 < twainwek> another issue i have is that when i connect to a network, my hostname gets changed... is that part of dhcp protocol?
05:05 < GlenK> your hostname could change depending on how you have dhcp set up
05:05 < twainwek> i haven't set it up
05:06 < GlenK> not necessarily your name you gave your machine, but network wise and as far as the thingys doing dhcp do, sure
05:06 < GlenK> oh, well, odd.  you don't name your computers?
05:06 < GlenK> I name mine after animals
05:06 < RedFlash> Hello, I'm having troubles getting my Raspberry Pi 3 with OSMC connected to the internet. I can SSH to it via ethernet on the local network and ping local network devices, but it won't ping/connect to anything on the internet. I can provide logs and all sorts if necessary. Any ideas?
05:07 < twainwek> everything is labeled except the machine that i
05:07 < twainwek> that i'm having issues with
05:07 < jim> yep, I have my computer named darryl, and my other computer named darryl
05:08 < micrex22> where's darrel?
05:08 < micrex22> or darril?
05:08 < twainwek> the problem is that it the hostname is initially 'localhost', but after it logs into a network, it changes to soomething random that invalidates the xauth auth entry and things go downhill from there
05:08 < GlenK> RedFlash:  can you ping your gateway?  can you ping something like 138.23.180.1?
05:08 < jim> hiding under my desk... oh, do you mean my other computer named darryl?
05:08 < GlenK> mtr would help out a lot with that.  run mtr on google.com or something
05:09 < GlenK> well, I suppose first off, does google.com resolve to an address?  that could be problematic
05:09 < twainwek> also check your dns server
05:09 < RedFlash> GlenK, Yes, I'm currently SSH'd in and I can ping any device within my network
05:10 < twainwek> can you ping 212.58.244.129?
05:10 < RedFlash> I can't resolve any addresses, and even pinging 8.8.8.8/8.8.4.4 does not work either
05:10 < jim> that means you're not physically connected
05:10 < GlenK> jim: was that an old old school joke about being in love with a computer.  like movie style?  if so, haha, man....
05:10 < RedFlash> twainwek, Nope, not working
05:11 < jim> "this is mah brother darryl.... and my other brother darryl..."
05:11 < GlenK> RedFlash:  can you hit your router and then it can do stuff?
05:11 < RedFlash> I can provide any logs you need, router settings, you name it. This problem has been kicking my butt the last week and I'm out of ideas
05:11 < twainwek> RedFlash: hwo did you connect your machine to the network? did you assign a static ip?
05:12 < jim> if you can ping your router, that's a sign you are physically connect
05:12 < jim> ed
05:12 < RedFlash> GlenK, Yes, I'm connected to it on my PC, looking at the configs as we speak.
05:12 < GlenK> RedFlash:  nah, just log in to the router.  can you do stuff from the router?  If not, contact your isp or something
05:12 < RedFlash> twainwek, DHCP
05:12 < GlenK> or plug the cable in
05:13 < jim> if you can't ping the router's IP, make sure it has power
05:14 < RedFlash> I'm talking to you from the same network as the pi. It's a config(?) issue on the pi itself, as no other device on the network has issues connecting
05:14 < GlenK> 90% of the time the cable isn't plugged in
05:14 < jim> ok, if that's the case, seems like your router (and your net) are operational
05:14 < RedFlash> That is correct
05:15 < GlenK> forgive me.  I do not know what pi means off the top of my head
05:15 < jim> then it boils down to the device
05:15 < twainwek> he means his raspberry pi
05:15 < jim> what computer is also on your home net besides your pi?
05:15 < GlenK> physical interface?
05:15 < GlenK> oh, pi.  ha, right.  raspberry pi
05:16 < jim> GlenK, a small cheap computer using an arm cpu I think
05:16 < jim> and could run raspian
05:16 < RedFlash> My desktop, phone and roommate's laptop
05:16 < GlenK> no, I know.  just I'm slow sometimes
05:16 < Raed> RedFlash: What is the output of 'ip route'?
05:17 < GlenK> this pi is running a linux distro?
05:17 < jim> that's gonna be multiline output...
05:17 < jim> so
05:17 < RedFlash> Raed,  https://pastebin.com/BRsJh20e
05:17 < jim> if you have nc installed, you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command, for example ls -CF if you run it like this: ls -CF | nc termbin.com 9999
05:17 < RedFlash> The OS currently installed on the pi is OSMC
05:18 < jim> oh, dunno what that is
05:18 < Raed> RedFlash: Can you ping to 10.1.1.1?
05:18 < GlenK> I'm old.  what's netstat -r say?
05:18 < RedFlash> jim: kodi/xbmc media center rolled into an OS
05:18 < RedFlash> Raed: Yes, 10.1.1.1 responds
05:18 < GlenK> I'm really old.  do I even have that right?
05:19 < Raed> RedFlash: What does traceroute 8.8.8.8 do?
05:19 < GlenK> Raed, mtr for the win I say
05:19 < GlenK> but that's me being a jerk again.  apologies
05:19 < Raed> GlenK: Either way, I dont care so much about latency I just want to see the hops
05:20 < jim> GlenK, ip route should tell us his default route, and if he can ping that address (he said "it responds"), then he is physically connected, and maybe he's missing a default route
05:20 < RedFlash> One sec. I can't use nc because the pi is not connected to the net and I'm on a windows pc. Pastebinning for now
05:20 < jim> or missing value in /etc/resolv.conf
05:21 < Raed> jim: There is a default route there, it is that 10.1.1.1
05:21 < RedFlash> Raed: https://pastebin.com/nn4xF7BQ
05:21 < jim> Raed, I got that impression ;)
05:21 < Raed> RedFlash: What exactly is the gateway? Is it a commercial router?
05:22 < RedFlash> It's a TP-Link Archer C2 v1
05:22 < Raed> RedFlash: And other devices are able to connect to the internet through the same gateway, correct?
05:22 < RedFlash> Yes
05:23 < Raed> RedFlash: Can you paste the output of ip addr too, please?
05:24 < storge> this reminds me of that one time.
05:24 < RedFlash> Raed: https://pastebin.com/1npKxmQt
05:24 < Raed> storge: At band camp? Or linux camp?
05:24 < storge> yeah that one.
05:25 < Raed> RedFlash: Have you tried restarting the gateway? Everything address wise looks normal.
05:25 < RedFlash> I also tried switching connman to manual mode, here's a dump of the service config https://pastebin.com/4pZnAXd4
05:26 < RedFlash> I'll restart the router, however I'll disappear for a minte or two. Stand by!
05:28 < BlueFlash> What in tarnation?! It worked. I am at a loss to understand why, but it worked. Thank you so much guys!
05:29 < Raed> BlueFlash: Seems like the router wasnt updating its routing table for the Pi for whatever reason.
05:29 < storge> ideopathic bit rot
05:29 < Raed> ^
05:29 < storge> everything gets contipated, sometime.
05:30 < storge> gotts reboot or cold boot to flush them pipes.
05:30 < BlueFlash> I mean, the router had been up for 6ish days
05:33 < storge> better switch to obsd, you're probably in meltdown. [/SATIRE]
05:33 < BlueFlash> Next on my list of garbage to get fixed: Deluge daemon/webui! Anyone know why literally every torrent has an "Error: Invalid argument" for tracker status?
05:58 < Happyhobo> Hi folks
05:58 < folks> hi Happyhobo
05:58 < Happyhobo> How are you?
05:59 < folks> rejoicing
05:59 < folks> yourself?
05:59 < Happyhobo> finding out the external antennas are worse than the internals.
05:59 < Pentode> what kind of antenna
06:00 < Happyhobo> internal laptop and external rabbit ears
06:00 < Pentode> try closing them up almost all the way
06:01 < Happyhobo> wouldn't separated be better?
06:01 < Happyhobo> brb
06:05 < Pentode> well theres a fair amount of black magic involved
06:05 < Pentode> but if you are _far_ from the source you may have better luck getting a good signal with them nearby
06:19 < wkd> ssh -X provides the command line, and guis for specific application i launch. How do I get the entire desktop?
06:22 < storge> run ssh in a tty
06:22 < storge> or maybe i misunderstand what you mean
06:23 < wkd> you're saying I can't get a desktop by command line
06:26 < bls> for the entire desktop, you need to set up a vnc/x2go/nx/etc server first
06:30 < wkd> is there a solid tutorial on getting this accomplished?
06:30 < storge> probably dozens
06:37 < Happyhobo> Pentode you there?
06:40 < ffejj> wkd: vnc, x2go
06:40 < ffejj> i like x2go because it works quickly over ssh
06:41 < ffejj> i didn't see where bls already answered sorry
06:47 < ffejj> while we are kinda on the subject have any of y'all had high cpu use with vncserver/viewer
06:48 < Sveta> ffejj, I wish x2go client had a mode in which only one window is shown. Not one window inside another.
06:49 < ffejj> Sveta: yeah, that would indeed be great
06:49  * Sveta asks #x2go
06:49 < ffejj> report back plz
06:50 < Sveta> Will do, ffejj. :)
07:02 < csierra_> Is it possible to have mpd on one system (my fileserver) and use an mpd client (ncmpcpp) on another system (my desktop) to play music on that system (the desktop)?
07:06 < kuri0> how can i find files starting with a hex code ?
07:07 < jim> csierra_, maybe, there are lots of client/server things like that
07:34 < kerframil> kuri0: there are various approaches
07:34 < kerframil> kuri0: here's one: find . /etc -type f -exec sh -c 'for f; do od -An -t x1 -N3 "$f" | grep -q "41 42 43" && echo "$f"; done' sh {} +
07:35 < kerframil> in this case, -N3 reads 3 bytes at most and an attempt is made to match on 0x41, 0x42 and 0x43 - in that order
07:36 < phinxy> mm.. hex
07:36 < kerframil> if you don't need recursion, you could get rid of find and just run the shell code directly: for f in *; do ...
07:39 < kerframil> oops, that /etc wasn't supposed to be in there. but you get the idea.
07:45 < Hyouchuu> Hallo o/
07:52 < Sveta> hi Hyouchuu
07:54 < kuri0> kerframil, what is my bytes are not numbers but are hex codes ?
08:04 < TwistedFate> Hello all
08:05 < Sveta> hi TwistedFate :)
08:06 < kerframil> kuri0: then just use grep
08:06 < kerframil> kuri0: hex is just ascii, after all
08:07 < TwistedFate> can anyone help me out with a gpu/driver/software problem?
08:07 < TwistedFate> i keep getting this in dmesg [    2.934032] amdgpu 0000:01:00.0: Invalid PCI ROM header signature: expecting 0xaa55, got 0xffff
08:20 < V7> Hey all
08:22 < Bebef> yo V7
08:24 < V7> Hope you have the warm weather in your place
08:24 < V7> It's quiet cold here
08:29 < Hyouchuu> It's not too bad here
08:30 < Hyouchuu> Keeps threatening to rain
08:30 < mophed> it was like 110 here over the weekend
08:31 < mophed> in Michigan
08:32 < little3> hi i have a service that runs on 3-4 machines,lets say if a service stops for somereason due to something, i again want to run the start command to service which would have failed in one of the boxes
08:32 < little3> what is the better way of doing that
08:32  * V7 thinks the global warming are close enough
08:33 < little3> hi i have a service that runs on 3-4 machines,lets say if a service stops for somereason due to something, i again want to run the start command to service which would have failed in one of the boxes
08:33 < little3> what is the better way of doing that
08:34 < lopid> now they're just spamming
08:34 < V7> uh
08:36 < mophed> https://superuser.com/questions/683325/how-to-monitor-a-service-and-restart-if-stopped-in-linux
08:52 < Hyouchuu> little3: You want to start a service from the command line?
08:53 < Hyouchuu> little3: What distro are you running?
08:53 < little3> Hyouchuu: centos
08:53 < Hyouchuu> Wouldn't it just be `systemctl start <service>`?
08:54 < Hyouchuu> mophed: I never thought I'd hear 110° and Michigan in the same sentence
08:56 < little3> Hyouchuu: i want to identify if first service got stopped and then start it
09:05 < mophed> little3: did you see my link?
09:05 < mophed> little3: you need some kind of monitor.
09:15 < V7> Uh
09:16 < theBox> [hi people, i am wondering if there is a way to essentially read from a file on a hard drive like it was a socket, meaning that bytes trickle in as they become available without needing to do so synchronously. any advice?
09:16 < theBox> (in C, preferably)
09:17 < V7> Directory exists in /mnt/somedir, but "/dev/sda1 /mnt/somedir ntfs-3g..." gives "ntfs-rg-mount: bad mount point "/mnt/somedir": No such file or directory
09:17 < V7> s/exists in/exists/
09:18 < V7> in /etc/fstab ^
09:19 < Hyouchuu> C is out of my field of expertise. I like to stick to my comfort zone.
09:20 < Hyouchuu> V7: Have you tried turning it off and then turning it back on?
09:21 < oiaohm> V7:  do check the order in the fstab.   I have had case of attempt to mount in the like of /mnt before /mnt it self was mounted.
09:25 < V7> Hyouchuu: Yes, no result
09:25 < Lope> hey guys, a long time ago I used a RbPi as a thin client to an X session on a more powerful desktop computer, but I can't remember how to start the X session?
09:26 < V7> oiaohm: /mnt is not mounted
09:26 < Lope> At the moment the target computer is running kde-plasma as it's DE, and I have SSH access to it. How can I start a plasma session?
09:26 < V7> Btw "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/somedir" works well
09:27 < V7> Lope: You need X11Forwarding or different Xorg client like vnc
09:28 < Lope> V7 can you please be more specific in terms of actionable steps?
09:29 < V7> Lope: https://hackernoon.com/installation-of-vnc-server-on-ubuntu-1cf035370bd3
09:29 < Lope> V7 I don't want to run VNC
09:29 < Lope> VNC is crap to use. I want to start X over SSH
09:29 < V7> Lope: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/12755/how-to-forward-x-over-ssh-to-run-graphics-applications-remotely
09:30 < Lope> Thanks, looks like the right stuff
09:30 < V7> oiaohm: Btw, do you have any idea ?
09:32 < storge> V7: are you mounting by blockid?
09:33 < storge> i have an ntfs-3g device i mount in fstab, using blkid, and i put it near the end of the list. i don't know enough to say with confidence that by putting near last it's 'better' but i never have a problem
09:34 < Lope> Where can I find the man page for sshd_config?
09:34 < Lope> man ssh...?
09:34 < V7> storge: UUID is used
09:34 < noname___> i am searching for a got domain hoster, who gives me the possibility to run my own dns server to manage my domain
09:35 < Lope> What does "X11DisplayOffset 10" in sshd_config do?
09:36 < V7> Lope: Google an answer for all of your questions
09:39 < Lope> `man sshd_config`: No manual entry for sshd_config. First result https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=sshd_config+manpage&ia=web = "sshd_config(5): OpenSSH SSH daemon config file - Linux man page"
09:39 < Lope> Google doesn't solve everything.
09:39 < mrherder> @Lope: man 5 sshd_config - does that work?
09:39 < Lope> ah, it's because I haven't got openssh-server installed on my client. doh.
09:40 < mrherder> :)
09:41 < V7> Lope: If google doesn't work at all then you'd probably need to levelup your google-fu
09:41 < stennowork> good day, on centos 7, is there a reason why cat /etc/issue would output RHEL 6.9 when run first, and afterwards don't output anything
09:41 < stennowork> i made the horrible mistake of checking the centos version with /etc/issue
09:41 < Lope> V7 sometimes google is not the quickest way to solve a problem.
09:41 < stennowork> apparently 6.9 is not the real version, but 7.4
09:41 < stennowork> i relied on that, and now i have a useless 6.9 install
09:42 < stennowork> and i cannot also upgrade in-place because the upgrade tool is BROKEN
09:42 < stennowork> why the fuck is everything broken or doesn't work in centos
09:42 < stennowork> what shitty OS is that
09:42 < stennowork> now i have to call the sysadmin of the customer and ask for a re-install of the new version
09:42 < stennowork> because everything regarding this shit OS is either plain wrong or broken
09:43 < Raed> stennowork: Sound like you should have been more careful.
09:43 < stennowork> yeah it was dumb to rely on the command that gives the OS version
09:43 < stennowork> i should have expected that it is just plain lying
09:43 < stennowork> i hope the 7.4 iso is actually 7.4 and not some other random version
09:43 < stennowork> i mean who knows
09:44 < Raed> stennowork: You do realize that it is entirely possible to change what is in a file, and that it is also possible for the system to not update it when the system version changes, right?
09:44 < stennowork> the system version didn't change. i installed the 6.9 on a naked system
09:44 < stennowork> er the 7.4, sorry
09:47 < Raed> So what exactly is the problem then, you installed a different version than you expected..?
09:48 < Raed> Next time, try using rpm --query centos-release
09:48 < stennowork> yes, on our test server we ran 7.4, and the IT installed 6.9
09:48 < stennowork> this is a fresh install here so maybe i can just do some dist-upgrade
09:48 < Raed> stennowork: You could give it a shot, if its still basically a new install I'd probably just re-install it properly though.
09:50 < Lope> I've setup X11 forwarding and connected my client to the server (that has KDE-plasma DE). I can start firefox on the remote server, and it displays on the client. How can I start an entire kde-plasma desktop session from the SSH terminal? I tried simply running `startx` without "X11DisplayOffset 10", but it crashed and burned. "Xorg: ../../../../dix/privates.c:385: dixRegisterPrivateKey: Assertion `!global_keys[type].created' failed." Then I
09:50 < Lope> added "X11DisplayOffset 10" to the sshd_config and ran startx. It started, there was no error. but nothing displayed on the client...?
09:50 < stennowork> apparently i cannot just dist-upgrade in centos because centos
09:51 < stennowork> the dist-upgrade equivalent of yum
09:51 < azarus> dist-upgrade has also wrecked my systems a couple of times in debian
09:51 < azarus> because debian
09:51 < Raed> stennowork: Just do a fresh install and make sure the proper version you want is installed.
09:52 < storge> azarus: it's hard for me to believe that
09:53 < stennowork> fml
09:53 < stennowork> why would this upgrade tool be broken beyond repair
09:53 < stennowork> everything would be easy if it would just work
09:54 < storge> that dist-upgrade ruined your system. unless you were mixing repos or running something jacked. i'm no debian fanboy (hate the systemd default) but i have run particularly wacked installs, and even used internal tools to upgrade distros, and seriously never had one problem. but then i measure twice and cut once.
09:54 < azarus> storge: was about a year or so, and I messed with prerelease versions, so it's kinda understandable
09:54 < Raed> I've never seen debian get wrecked on a dist-upgrade either
09:54 < storge> the reason i stick with debian is precisely because i have core stability in those things that matter to me (like migrating versions like a crackhead, with no failures)
09:55 < storge> azarus: testing or experimental?
09:55 < azarus> storge: testing
09:55 < storge> hmm
09:55 < azarus> i haven't used pure debian for a long while tough
09:55 < storge> maybe running apt steps in the right order with the right flags
09:57 < azarus> i actually have been runnning gentoo for quite a while on just about everything, then I switched to a mix of OpenBSD and Alpine
09:57 < azarus> (because I got kinda fed up with compiling everything)
09:57 < storge> i downloaded alpine about a week ago, haven't installed it yet. i'm interested
09:57 < azarus> it is nice, but very different
09:58 < azarus> no coreutils by default
09:58 < azarus> no glibc
09:58 < azarus> no bash
09:58 < cmj> did you rub sticks together?
09:58 < GNU\colossus> :D
09:58 < grummund> Is there a way to get specifically Device Model and Serial Number of a drive without resorting to grep (from the output of smartctl)?
09:58 < azarus> no, busybox serves my needs very well
09:59 < storge> obsd might be a helpful choice right now, given their decision to limit intel architecture hacking. what killed me for obsd a couple of years ago was they didn't have drivers for my hardware on a 5 year old laptop--and that made my install really annoying.
09:59 < cmj> :p
09:59 < azarus> storge: OpenBSD disabled hyperthreading very recently in -current
09:59 < stennowork> Raed, i called the IT and we will do a fresh 7.4 install now
09:59 < azarus> because it's fun now to assume intel has terrible security
10:00 < GNU\colossus> grummund, check /sys/block/$dev/device/model
10:00 < storge> azarus: aye
10:00 < Raed> stennowork: Well there you go, better luck this time.
10:00 < storge> azarus: well...
10:00 < stennowork> thanks, and thanks for the calm advice
10:00 < Raed> stennowork: No worries
10:00 < jhodrien> stennowork: Did you read any of the documentation on major version upgrades?
10:01 < noname___> i am searching for a got domain hoster, who gives me the possibility to run my own dns server to manage my domain
10:01 < stennowork> jhodrien, yes, there is an upgrade tool for 6 to 7 but its now broken beyond repair and has been removed from repositories
10:02 < stennowork> jhodrien, https://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks/CentOSUpgradeTool
10:02 < Raed> noname___: There are lots of them that allow it.
10:02 < jhodrien> But you're the one that started off by breaking it.  /etc/issue doesn't lie unless it's been modified.
10:03 < jhodrien> You also have to jump through lots of hoops to screw up a CentOS box like that.
10:03 < jhodrien> Yes others allow it.  But then others also force you to upgrade more often.
10:04 < jhodrien> Would it be nice if it supported it?  Sure.  But I suspect major update demand is lower now than it has been in the past, given we live in a world of cloud.
10:04 < grummund> GNU\colossus: thanks.  do you know if serial number is there too?
10:05 < GNU\colossus> grummund, sysfs does not expose it, afaik
10:06 < grummund> GNU\colossus: thank you :) i see it embedded in wwid that's all.
10:06 < GNU\colossus> yeah, but I'm not sure that's _always_ the case
10:06 < GNU\colossus> there are storage protocols that have a "real" WWID
10:06 < GNU\colossus> (FC, for instance)
10:06 < grummund> also at /dev/disk/by-id/ata-*
10:07 < GNU\colossus> that's an udev gimmick
10:07 < stennowork> jhodrien, this is the output of /etc/issue . i did a yum update at some point, maybe that screwed it up https://hastebin.com/icinifemiq.coffeescript
10:07 < Lope> Does anyone know how to `startx` (or whatever you need to do to start a full KDE-plasma DE session) over SSH? I've got X11 forwarding setup, and I can run firefox as the user or as root remotely with it displaying on the client. But when I `startx` as the user it says "/usr/lib/xorg/Xorg.wrap: Only console users are allowed to run the X server" if I `startx` as root it crashes: "Xorg: ../../../../dix/privates.c:385: dixRegisterPrivateKey:
10:07 < Lope> Assertion `!global_keys[type].created' failed."
10:07 < noname___> yes may i specify my needs: good webinterface (not as ugly like like domainoffensive) and a good service
10:08 < jhodrien> That's the ouput you expect from a CentOS 7 box.
10:08 < well_laid_lawn> shouldn't use ssh as root
10:08 < jhodrien> cat /etc/redhat-release
10:08 < noname___> my current domain hoster onyxhosting has a nice webinterface but we (support and me) try to set my dns since 2 weeks and they dont get it
10:08 < Lope> I have "X11DisplayOffset 10" in sshd_config (and have restarted SSH since changing the config)
10:08 < Lope> well_laid_lawn: YOLO
10:08 < jhodrien> Lope: Do you not want to look at VNC or similar?
10:08 < stennowork> jhodrien, /etc/redhat-release gives me the correct version 7.4
10:09 < Raed> noname___: Maybe they just dont support using your own server, it might be time to look for another registrar.
10:09 < BCMM> Lope: startx, uh, starts an X server
10:09 < well_laid_lawn> you can forward X over ssh
10:09 < Lope> jhodrien: I prefer to avoid VNC. I'm on gigabit lan and want a full X session
10:09 < stennowork> jhodrien, i assume that if i called /etc/redhat-release instead of /etc/issue, i would have figured out the correct version from the beginning
10:09 < BCMM> Lope: whereas you presumably already have an X server running (on your local machine)
10:09 < Lope> jhodrien: the performance of X11 forwarding (on LAN) is much better than VNC.
10:09 < noname___> Raed: they support it but i think the system is shit...
10:09 < jhodrien> Lope: Then do you not want to be doing something like gnome-session instead?  You don't want to start a new X server if you want remote X.
10:09 < noname___> they say they set it but it is not set...
10:09 < jhodrien> stennowork: Or rpm -q centos-release
10:10 < Raed> noname___: Could be.
10:10 < BCMM> Lope: try `startkde`
10:10 < Lope> BCMM: please help, I don't really know what I'm doing. I want to have the full DE running on the client
10:10 < stennowork> jhodrien, i made the error of relying on that https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/54987/how-to-determine-centos-version
10:10 < jhodrien> The internet is full of lies.
10:10 < BCMM> Lope: your intention is to have KDE running on a remote machine, and displaying on your local machine, right?
10:10 < Lope> Is there a VNC client that can show a full remote X session inside a window
10:11 < jhodrien> The answer is in that page though.
10:11 < BCMM> Lope: and you've already managed to do the same with individual applications like firefox?
10:11 < jhodrien> "On CentOS 7, 'cat /etc/issue' yields gobbledygook:"
10:11 < stennowork> i only checked the accepted answer, not the most upvoted one
10:11 < Lope> BCMM: that's right.
10:11 < BCMM> Lope: literally any VNC client
10:11 < jhodrien> "Correct answer should be the one by h3rrmiller... cat /etc/*elease."
10:11 < Lope> BCMM yes
10:11 < stennowork> i was too swift
10:11 < jhodrien> Lope: Or even novnc, then you just need a web browser.
10:11 < stennowork> yep
10:11 < BCMM> Lope: if you want to keep going with the x-forwarding solution, just run startkde in the same fashion you ran firefox
10:11 < jhodrien> But what did you do once you thought it was 6.9?
10:11 < Lope> BCMM: well I've got remmina, but I don't see options for logging into a remote X session.
10:12 < Lope> BCMM: will try
10:12 < BCMM> Lope: you realise you need to run a VNC server in order to use a VNC client, right?
10:12 < BCMM> Lope: if i am to answer more precisely, no, a VNC client can *not* show an "X session" as such. it shows a vnc session.
10:12 < stennowork> jhodrien, i saw the output 6.9 there. the only way i can explain it now is that i checked the wrong machine
10:13 < jhodrien> VNC paired with VirtualGL often makes you wonder why you were wanting a remote X desktop in the first place.
10:13 < BCMM> Lope: (but you can have a vnc server that provides access to an x session)
10:13 < Lope> BCMM: wow it worked!
10:13 < stennowork> so the only thing left to blame not on me is that the upgrade tool is borked
10:13 < BCMM> jhodrien: why, because i love network roundtrips, of course!
10:13 < Lope> It's some weird X-Mashup
10:13 < jhodrien> stennowork: Although it does say it's borked.
10:13 < stennowork> it says its borked, thats why i didn't use it
10:13 < jhodrien> "O NOT USE this tool. Warning: use of this tool is currently BROKEN"
10:13 < jhodrien> So then have you broken anything?
10:14 < stennowork> i would have liked to use a non-borked version of it
10:14 < Lope> BCMM: i think what I should do is Ctrl-Alt F2 (Some free screen without an X session) then startX from there. So I can switch
10:14 < stennowork> no, i called the IT and installed a fresh 7.4 now
10:14 < BCMM> Lope: you still do not want to run startx on remote machine
10:15 < Lope> BCMM: howcome?
10:15 < BCMM> Lope: i'm not sure you understand what the X server is...
10:15 < Lope> BCMM: I'm not sure I understand either :)
10:15 < BCMM> Lope: (in this case) the x server runs on the machine the human is sitting at
10:15 < tx> I mean, there's nothing wrong with running startx on a remote machine..
10:15 < tx> :P
10:16 < BCMM> Lope: the x server is the process that actually draws stuff on a screen using a graphics card
10:16 < BCMM> Lope: so for a remote X setup, what you're doing looks like this: x11 clients (e.g. firefox) -> network -> X server
10:16 < BCMM> no x server required on the machine running firefox
10:17 < cmj> this is how we did things 20 years ago
10:17 < Lope> BCMM: oh, thanks
10:17 < azarus> cmj: and how should we do it today?
10:17 < azarus> xpra or something?
10:17 < BCMM> cmj: remote x is what he specifically requested, as far as i understand. i'm not endorsing it as the correct option, Lope
10:17 < Lope> BCMM BTW this is so freaky, it's both DE sessions mashed up.
10:17 < BCMM> Lope: yes, sounds like you started kde on an x session that already had a DE running
10:17 < cmj> startx -- :1 or whatever it was
10:18 < Lope> BCMM: yes, not actually what I wanted. Bull in a china shop here.
10:18 < BCMM> Lope: you probably want to start an X server without any clients attached
10:18 < cmj> all we had were workstations
10:18 < stennowork> xserver is still around? :o
10:18 < Lope> Will run it on Ctrl+Alt+F2
10:18 < BCMM> Lope: there are also various special X servers that don't actually draw to a physical graphics card
10:18 < jhodrien> stennowork: Obviously it should be 7.5.  But did you actually break anything on the 7.4 box you had before?
10:19 < BCMM> Lope: for example Xephyr is an X server that renders to a window on another X server
10:19 < BCMM> Lope: that's how you get a remote x session in a window on your existing desktop
10:19 < stennowork> jhodrien, not knowingly - the only thing i did was yum upgrade at some point
10:19 < jhodrien> Lope: But you are jumping through hoops and stabbing yourself in the eye to avoid using VNC.
10:19 < stennowork> after installing some new repositories
10:19 < Lope> BCMM: yes, I've seen them around.
10:19 < cmj> get to learn xhost, etc
10:20 < BCMM> Lope: and if you want to go the VNC route, you can use a special X server that draws to a VNC desktop instead. then it would look like this: x11 clients (e.g. firefox) -> Xvnc > network -> VNC client
10:20 < Lope> jhodrien: you might like VNC, I don't. I don't like the latency
10:20 < jhodrien> Lope: Seriously, VNC with VirtualGL on a gigabit network and you don't like the latency?
10:20 < jhodrien> You do know that remote X is horribly vulnerable to latency issues?
10:21 < BCMM> jhodrien: Xvnc performance tends to be better than VNC servers that are scraping a "real" x session (i.e. mirroring what's shown on the monitor)
10:21 < jhodrien> Can I suggest x2go as a middle ground you might like?
10:21 < Lope> jhodrien: I've never used virtualGL that I'm aware of
10:21 < BCMM> sorry wrong highlight Lope
10:21 < jhodrien> That mitigates a lot of the latency issues with remote X, and lets you disconnect and reconnect to a sessions.
10:21 < Lope> different approaches for different things.
10:21 < jhodrien> OpenGL and remote X are not happy bed fellows.
10:22 < BCMM> Lope: X11 is generally more vulnerable to network latency than VNC. it is only a slight exaggeration to say that every time you do anything in X, it generates multiple roundtrips between the server and client
10:22 < BCMM> Lope: however, VNC tends to have some non-network latency in image encoding/decoding. on GbE you probably want to use a less efficient encoding to help with that
10:23 < azarus> what's the best way to use X over SSH? (favorably with a windows client)
10:23 < azarus> i used ssh X forwarding over cygwin before
10:23 < jhodrien> azarus: Define best.
10:24 < domhnall> Lope: also, ++ for learning something in all this
10:24 < jhodrien> I'm a fan of Mobaxterm as a lazy client.
10:24 < Lope> I've tried running a VNC client on a RbPi2 via Fast Ethernet with a whole DE inside it. And I've tried running just firefox via SSH on the RbPi. And the difference was huge. X11 forwarding was way better, no contest.
10:24 < jhodrien> Hey, we do full 3D accelerated remote desktop with novnc in a web browser, and it smacks the pants off remote X.
10:25 < domhnall> Personally, ssh sessions are enough for tasks required.
10:25 < Lope> I think X might put more load on network bandwidth, whereas VNC puts more load on CPU for compressing and decompressing graphics.
10:25 < jhodrien> firefox doesn't tend to be responsive over remote X, so I'm surprised you find that good.
10:25 < jhodrien> It's more latency that bandwidth with X.
10:25 < jhodrien> 50Mbit connection at home to work gives unusable firefox.
10:25 < Lope> jhodrien: RbPi's have crappy CPU's you probably aren't familiar with trying to run Firefox on a RbPi.
10:26 < jhodrien> I run a mix of Pi1 and Pi3 here,so I know what they're like.
10:26 < jhodrien> Pi3 is a lot more capable.
10:26 < Lope> This is LAN latency, you're probably talking about internet latency.
10:26 < jhodrien> It's all the same bag, just clearer with a higher latency.
10:26 < jhodrien> VNC is usable with really quite long latency, remote X isn't.
10:27 < Lope> Browsing on a Pi with more than 4 tabs is an exercise in self mutilation.
10:27 < jhodrien> ;)
10:27 < Lope> But if you run the firefox remotely via SSH, you can run 50 tabs, and it's fast.
10:27 < jhodrien> We use ours as display screens.  The Pi1 wasn't up to running a PDF viewer.
10:27 < jhodrien> Pi3 is a different world.
10:28 < BCMM> Lope: like i said, try changing the compression options for VNC
10:28 < Lope> exactly, pi's suck for usage. Pi's are only good for display screens, or basic stuff, playing a movie via Kodi, or low performance headless servers.
10:28 < BCMM> defaults are often internet-suitable, for lan use settings can be changed to use more bandwidth for less cpu
10:28 < Lope> I've never tried the RbPi3. Why is it significantly better than a Pi2? Better CPU arch? Isn't it still one USB port shared with a Hub?
10:29 < Lope> RbPi's IO sucks.
10:29 < Lope> And it's performance sucks.
10:29 < Lope> I much prefer other linux SBC's
10:29 < jhodrien> Some of the IO issues changed between versions, as they changed how the devices attached internally.
10:29 < jhodrien> We ordered a Pi2, got a 3.
10:29 < BCMM> Lope: 1.2GHz quad-core cpu
10:29 < Lope> jhodrien: nice upgrade
10:29 < Lope> RbPi2 is quad core 1ghz with 1GB RAM and it's slow.
10:30 < BCMM> Lope: cpu performance is miles ahead of the original pi
10:30 < Lope> So 1.2ghz for a Pi3 doesn't sound impressive unless it's an arch change.
10:30 < jhodrien> Pi1 was taking about 30 seconds per slide to render a PDF.  Pi3 is doing the same in under 3 seconds.
10:30 < BCMM> and 1GB ram makes a big difference too
10:30 < BCMM> Lope: io is still the weak point though
10:30 < Lope> RbPi2 is still unusable as a computer
10:30 < Lope> with it's 1GB Ram and shite CPU
10:30 < Urchin[emacs]> Pi2 is single core
10:31 < Lope> Urchin[emacs]: false, it's quad core
10:31 < jhodrien> Define unusable.
10:31 < Lope> jhodrien: you can't browse the internet with it
10:31 < BCMM> Lope: and it is an architechture change, depending on which pi 2 you've used. since the 2v1.2 it;s a cortex-a53
10:31 < Lope> jhodrien: you can browse the internet on a smartphone. So it's not asking that much.
10:31 < jhodrien> Pi3 is usable.
10:31 < BCMM> Urchin[emacs]: pi 2 is quad-core, even the a7 versions
10:32 < Lope> BCMM: wow, didn't know there are different Pi2 SoC's. Interesting.
10:32 < BCMM> on a scale of pi 1 to desktop pc, the pi3 is more like a desktop than a pi 1
10:32 < Lope> I'm guessing the new Pi2's are much faster than the original Pi2's ?
10:33 < Lope> The original Pi2 sucks 6x less than tha Pi1, but still sucks.
10:33 < BCMM> Lope: pi2 is basically pi3 without the wireless bits and so on now
10:33 < Lope> Okay, not sucks, just not really acceptable to USE. Fine for limited applications.
10:34 < Lope> BCMM interesting!
10:34 < Lope> I'll have to order one :)
10:34 < BCMM> shares an SoC
10:34 < Lope> And clockrates?
10:34 < BCMM> (but there's the 3+ now with a marginally better SoC)
10:35 < jhodrien> Power draw has gone up though I think compared to a Pi1.
10:35 < BCMM> Lope: pi2, 900MHz. pi3, 1200MHz, pi3+ 1.4GHz (they added an on-board heatspreader)
10:36 < BCMM> jhodrien: power draw is probably *down* for an identical workload, though
10:36 < BCMM> it scales with CPU frequency ofc
10:36 < g105b> Hello all. When I extract a tar into a directory that has sticky bit permissions, the permissions of the extracted files do not reflect the sticky permissions - is there a way to extract a tar so that its permissions are ignored?
10:37 < BCMM> there's been a lot of fuss about the power usage jump from 3 to 3+, with people failing to realise that it's literally just down to the clock speed jump, and you can underclock to achieve identical performance an identical power usage
10:37 < BCMM> ^and identical
10:40 < Lope> BCMM: the easy way to resolve all those complaints is to just put a doofus questionaire in the Pi's setup program that you're supposed to run after an initial install
10:40 < Lope> With options for clock speeds showing the average power consumption in watts next to each clockspeed :)
10:40 < Urchin[emacs]> I've had problems with power usage going from pi2 to pi3
10:40 < BCMM> Lope: the io is a real problem, though. they've got 1000BaseT ethernet now, but it only goes up to about 300MB/s throughput because it's still on the SoC's (single) USB2 interface. if you want something like a pi but with modern IO, look at the rock64
10:41 < BCMM> true GbE and a USB3 port, running independently
10:41 < Lope> Well other decent Linux SBC's with better IO and better price, like ones based on the H3 or H2+ SoC need a 5v 2A PSU. How much does the Pi3 and Pi3+ need?
10:41 < Urchin[emacs]> I really don't know why I thought Pi2 was single core
10:42 < Lope> BCMM: I've not followed RbPi development for quite a while. Are you saying the Pi3+ has GbE and USB3??? wow will look it up.
10:42 < BCMM> Lope: no. i am saying that the rock64 is like a pi but with GbE and USB3
10:42 < Lope> Urchin[emacs]: I was surprised when I first found out. I first found out by running htop on my pi2 :)
10:43 < Lope> BCMM: oh, where do you buy it?
10:43 < Lope> BCMM: has it got decent software? Is it supported by armbian?
10:43 < BCMM> Lope: the pi 3b+ has a 1000BaseT ethernet interface, but they don't like to call it "gigabit", because it's still bottlenecked by usb2
10:44 < BCMM> Lope: yeah that's the rock64's downside, massively less supported than the pi. it does run armbian though.
10:44 < Lope> BCMM: I see. But that's still 3x better than fast ethernet, which is very nice. USB2 speeds are not so bad. The really crap thing about the Pi1 and original Pi2 is lack of IO. Everything running on a single USB port via a hub.
10:45 < Lope> BCMM: that's the compromise of all Linux SBC's that aren't Pi.
10:45 < BCMM> Lope: there's still the single USB2 interface, unfortunately
10:45 < Urchin[emacs]> Lope: no, I mean I had a Pi2, though that was a while back, so I may be mixing things up
10:46 < BCMM> Lope: so there's still a significantly < 300Mb/s limit on throughput from ethernet to USB storage for example
10:46 < Urchin[emacs]> I still have wreckage of it (lightning strike)
10:46 < BCMM> it's just that now it's actually possible to saturate the USB with network traffic if you want
10:46 < BCMM> Lope: oh, and the onboard wifi on the pi *isn't* USB!
10:47 < Lope> BCMM: that's a relief. But I'll bet it's not 802.11ac?
10:47 < Lope> I don't want to use anything that's not 802.11ac
10:47 < BCMM> Lope: it is ac! so weirdly enough i think the fastest interface, for network -> disk transfer, is wireless
10:48 < azarus> shame enough there are no 802.11ac drivers/devices that can run without proprietary firmware
10:48 < heftig> azarus: software-defined radio can be quite heavily regulated
10:49 < azarus> yup
10:49 < BCMM> azarus: the pi has never been an open hardware project
10:49 < Lope> BCMM: Orange Pi have come out with an amazing new board. The Lite2 based on H6 SoC. It's got great specs and USB3!!! Only problem is the armbian guys haven't figured out how to get the USB3 working yet. But I have faith. They managed to get a mainline kernel running on the H3. At first the onboard ethernet wasn't working in the mainline kernel, but then they got it working! Here's the Lite2: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-Lite2-H6-1GB
10:49 < Lope> -USB3-0-Bluetooth4-1-Quad-core-64bit-development-board-Support-android7/32849206150.html
10:50 < Lope> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-Lite2-H6-1GB-USB3-0-Bluetooth4-1-Quad-core-64bit-development-board-Support-android7/32849206150.html
10:50 < Lope> BCMM: holy crap!! that's impressive!!
10:51 < BCMM> Lope: are you saying that board has usb3, but no driver for it?
10:51 < BCMM> how have they even tested the hardware? does it work in android or something?
10:53 < Lope> BCMM: that's correct. It most likely does work in Android
10:53 < Lope> BCMM: one can probably run linux in a Chroot on the android
10:53 < azarus> ergh not nice
10:54 < Lope> I run debian 8 in a chroot on my samsung galaxy S3. I can't upgrade because the S3 has a 3.1 kernel only and Debian9 has libc6 which requires a kernel >=3.2
10:54 < jhodrien> BCMM: Peak power is up though, so a Pi3 powered off a TV throws a warning that it's throttling.
10:55 < Lope> I still need to get linux running on my Galaxy S5
10:55 < Lope> https://www.armbian.com/orange-pi-lite-2/
10:56 < Lope> It also has 802.11ac! (not working yet either)
10:57 < MrElendig> Lope: also a horrible software stack
10:57 < MrElendig> like pretty much all that isn't a rpi
10:58 < azarus> well raspbian isn't all that nice either, imo
10:58 < BCMM> Lope: is that possible?
10:58 < MrElendig> talking about the orange pi
10:58 < MrElendig> not the cruddy distro
10:58 < azarus> MrElendig: ah sorry
10:58 < Lope> MrElendig: Armbian is good for stuff that's supported, but it depends on the SoC. If you want to use the GPU then you're generally running an older kernel. If you run mainline kernel then most things work on most of the boards.
10:58 < BCMM> Lope: or are you talking about something like termux?
10:58 < MrElendig> Lope: the blob is pretty useless too
10:59 < Lope> BCMM: please clarify your question?
10:59 < Lope> MrElendig: what blob?
10:59 < MrElendig> the lima driver sort of got resurrected recently but not really
10:59 < BCMM> Lope: linux on s5
10:59 < MrElendig> and the*
10:59 < MrElendig> Lope: the blobl for the mali400 gpu in the thing
11:00 < Lope> BCMM: I haven't figured out how to run linux on my Galaxy S5 yet. On my S3 I use LilDebi from F-Droid, which I modified. But that didn't work on my S5. There are open source options in the play store.
11:00 < MrElendig> also, alwinner violates the gpl left right and centre :/
11:01 < Lope> MrElendig: yeah blobs suck, whatyagonnado. IIRC the RbPi still uses a blob somewhere.
11:01  * MrElendig is pretty disgusted with the arm world in general and their insanity when it comes to the drivers/software
11:01 < BCMM> Lope: that's a chroot-on-android solution rather than native gnu/linux right?
11:01 < MrElendig> Lope: ironicly it is one of the most open boards at the moment
11:01 < MrElendig> Lope: considering that it is a boroadcom chip that is a miracle
11:01 < Lope> MrElendig: yes, I hate the fact that I can't run mainline kernel on my Galaxy S3 and S5 phones because assholes won't release drivers.
11:01 < MrElendig> broad*
11:01 < azarus> board*
11:01 < BCMM> i think wanton GPL violation is why Kodi devs aren't really working on allwinner support
11:01 < azarus> ah no broadcom*
11:02 < Lope> MrElendig: if you buy Sony phones (most of them) run mainline kernel and ensure that their blobs will always work with mainline.
11:02 < BCMM> incredibly bloody-minded from allwinner given that their chips are, in theory, ideal for kodi boxes
11:02 < Lope> MrElendig: but you're still at their mercy, they may discontinue updating their blobs for their older phones at any time.
11:02 < MrElendig> Lope: none of my sonys have worked with anything nearing mainline
11:02 < MrElendig> Lope: last one only worked with a 3.x kernel.....
11:03 < MrElendig> sony just uses the same chips as everyone else
11:03 < Lope> MrElendig: check it out, I once asked on the sony forums, they list a whole lot of their phones that are mainline. It's not all of them. Maybe 1/4 or 1/3. All the new mid>high end ones.
11:03 < Lope> MrElendig: well then they're fucked, i guess. Depends on what chips they use.
11:04 < MrElendig> Lope: everone uses qualcomm, and qualcomm are some of the biggest dongs in the industry
11:04 < MrElendig> and for the few that use mediatek, they ain't any better either
11:05 < Lope> It's one thing to be a huge dick and not open source your drivers. But it's another thing to be a total asshole and not release blob drivers for modern kernels.
11:06 < MrElendig> both of them do both
11:06 < MrElendig> for some chips you can't even get the kernel source, you just get a complete blob
11:06 < MrElendig> unless you pay 20 millions and sign a nda
11:10 < Lope> MrElendig: I expect you can run kodi on a 3.4 Armbian kernel on any of the Orange Pi H3 boards
11:10 < Lope> MrElendig: I plan on trying it soon.
11:11 < Lope> MrElendig: I thought there are some superhero lawyers that sue companies and make them release their source when they violate GPL?
11:15 < V7> Hey all
11:15 < MrElendig> they have limited finances
11:16 < V7> Can't login after adding ChrootDirectory to sshd_config for a user
11:16 < V7> How to chroot a user correctly, so it won't move upper path ?
11:17 < V7> Now it looks like: https://hastebin.com/xutizafebu.nginx
11:24 < stennowork> isn't that how openwrt came into being?
11:24 < stennowork> they found some GPL code in a router firmware so they had to open-source the code?
11:25 < Lope> BCMM: The Pine H64's have very nice hardware. 2GB/3GB USB3 GbE https://www.pine64.org/?product=pine-h64-2gb-board https://www.pine64.org/?product=pine-h64-3gb-board
11:27 < Lope> The PineBook looks awesome! $99 laptop https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=3707
11:28 < Lope> Sorry, I lied. $89!
11:29 < BCMM> Lope: it actually does. kind of makes me wish i needed a laptop.
11:29 < jhodrien> But then you compare it with Chinese tablets with 1080p screens.  Are you not mostly swapping a poor screen for a keyboard?
11:29 < BCMM> i really liked the whole netbook trend for the few months before it got stupid
11:30 < BCMM> the concept of a cheap, lightweight laptop that's aimed at somebody who actually has a real computer as well was really nice
11:30 < Lope> It's brilliant
11:30 < BCMM> cheap enough that you can take it on holiday or whatever and not worry too much about it getting nicked
11:30 < Lope> Just don't expect it to be a proper computer
11:30 < Lope> BCMM: yeah exactly, take 2 with you on holiday.
11:31 < Lope> Be careless with the first one, if it get's nicked, be careful with the 2nd one ;)
11:31 < jhodrien> But I think they were nailed by tablets/phones.
11:31 < BCMM> and then within a year or two it somehow got twisted to mean a massive desktop replacement laptop as long as it doesn't have an optical drive
11:31 < BCMM> jhodrien: those are essentially read-only devices
11:31 < Lope> jhodrien: yes, but the problem with touch only devices, is you can't type much or code much on them.
11:31 < jhodrien> Bluetooth keyboard case.
11:31 < BCMM> responding to an email on a tablet is pure pain
11:31 < Lope> Typing on a touchscreen sucks.
11:32 < BCMM> and they also run crap operating systems
11:32 < jhodrien> Plenty of people use iPads round here with keyboards.  People live in the cloud.
11:32 < BCMM> but on the other hand, having an android phone is why i don't really need a laptop
11:32 < jhodrien> The OS doesn't matter all that much when you do all your work via remote access and in a web browser.
11:32 < BCMM> covers looking at maps or whatever on holiday, wasting time on the train etc
11:32 < Lope> Doing anything that requires inputting text on a touchscreen is pain and a waste of time.
11:32 < jhodrien> Lope: But the bluetooth keyboards are often better than the cramped Samsung NC10 keyboard.
11:33 < BCMM> yeah, i know tablets with bluetooth keyboards is what's killed actual, real laptops (i.e. portables as opposed to what are basically unergonomic desktops for technopobes)
11:33 < BCMM> but i *like* laptops
11:34 < jhodrien> Which is why people still get overpriced ultrabooks through work.
11:34 < jhodrien> Macbook Pros are still very popular with academics who don't have to pay for them.
11:36 < djph> BCMM: hey now, those unergonomic desktops are a bit easier to move (ugh, I hated having to buy one when my desktop finally bit it.)
11:36 < BCMM> hang on, is the 11.6" pinebook actually smaller than the 14" one, or does it just have more bezel?
11:36 < Lope> jhodrien: I just googled the Samsung NC10. OMG Vomit it has an atom N270 32bit CPU without VT-x or whatever. I've got a piece of shit netbook Asus like that. It's almost less useful than a RbPi 1/2 if that's even possible.
11:36 < jhodrien> Agreed.
11:36 < jhodrien> Terrible battery life, actually feels quite heavy, letter box screen, crap keyboard.
11:38 < Lope> omg: The Pine H64 (links above in my prev post) has a PCI(-E?) slot! (not working in armbian yet either). Really amazing hardware.
11:38 < Lope> That's like a proper computer for so cheap in a tiny form factor. People who've tried it said the CPU us very fast. Imagine that with a SSD in the PCI(-E?) Slot.
11:38 < jhodrien> But in terms of what matters, isn't it an A53 tablet with a keyboard?
11:38 < BCMM> Lope: i'm a bit confused about where the h64 fits in with other pine products. is it the one that came out around the same time as teh rock64pro?
11:39 < Lope> jhodrien: it's open source. The problem with 99% of tablets is you get a blob from hell.
11:39 < BCMM> jhodrien: it is, and some people want that
11:39 < Lope> I've got a Samsung Galaxy N8000 tablet. It's basically a brick. I can't upgrade the software/kernel. Might as well just sell it.
11:39 < jhodrien> I'm not trying to nail it, but I think it's understandably good.
11:39 < BCMM> because once you have a separate keyboard and a stand and all that you've got something a lot bulkier than a tablret
11:39 < BCMM> ^than a laptop
11:40 < Lope> BCMM: I agree entirely. I used to think tablets were cool, until I wanted to type something.
11:40 < BCMM> (also tablets usually force you to use something like android, which is simply not a general-purpose OS)
11:41 < BCMM> like windows 8 or something, yes you can plug a mouse and kb in to it, but the ui will punish you for doing so
11:41 < Lope> BCMM: I even bought a microsoft surface pro. But the connection between the detachable keyboard is a bit dodgy, it has to be resting with it's weight on the connectors to make a good connection (basically sitting flat on a desk on it's kickstand) for the keyboard to work. And the MS Surface pro 2 keyboard is a piece of shit. It's as bad as typing on those waterproof silicone keyboards.
11:41 < Lope> Exactly, So tablets are shit, unless you only want to browse the net.
11:42 < Lope> Or maybe watch a movie.
11:42 < Lope> But if you want to watch a movie you might as well use a bigger proper monitor, or if you're in transit, just watch a movie on your phone. So I can't see much justification for a tablet existing.
11:44 < Lope> I'm so fucking impressed with this Pine64 laptop!
11:44 < Lope> I'm gonna buy one.
11:49 < djph> (1 week later) "ugh, why did I ever buy this Pine64 laptop!?"
11:50 < azarus> Lope: OS support seems shabby
11:53 < ellyacht> can someone tell me what to run in terminal to install the nvidia driver I DL'd from their site? I got the linux64 version
11:53 < jhodrien> ellyacht: If possible, install it from a package and not direct from nvidia.
11:54 < bazhang> which distro
11:54 < Triffid_Hunter> ellyacht: uh don't get it from their site, use your package manager
11:56 < ellyacht> jhodrien: so when I use driver manager and apply to the nvidia recommended driver for my system it gives me the same driver for my laptop (nvidia GeForce gtx 1060) as it does for my desktop (nvidia GeForce 9600 GT) lol
11:56 < Triffid_Hunter> ellyacht: well yeah, nvidia's driver covers all their chips for the past several generations
11:56 < ellyacht> jhodrien: same driver for two 12 year different cards.
11:57 < ellyacht> Triffid_Hunter: That couldn't be right
11:57 < Triffid_Hunter> ellyacht: why not?
11:57 < ellyacht> Triffid_Hunter: what you said about their chipset is correct I assume
11:58 < ellyacht> Triffid_Hunter: but having the same driver for both cards? Why would they have a version they just release 15 days ago then for the card in my laptop
11:58 < ellyacht> laptop is VR capable
11:58 < Triffid_Hunter> ellyacht: see http://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/133859/en-us click on supported cards
11:58 < ellyacht> desktop is not
11:59 < jhodrien> I'd be surprised if a 9600 was supported by the latest driver.
11:59 < Triffid_Hunter> ellyacht: most of their cards work the same way, just newer ones can do more work faster, so most of the driver is identical for all the cards, only needs a tiny bit of hal shim to talk to a specific card
11:59 < ellyacht> jhodrien: you would be surprised than for sure
11:59 < jhodrien> You'd expect to use a 340 era one for that.
11:59 < natten> I want to backup my entire laptop harddrive (or partition) over ssh to my server while still using it. What is the preferred solution? I'm using luks and lvm if that matters.
12:00 < jhodrien> Triffid_Hunter: Yeah, but they drop support for old cards.
12:00 < jhodrien> 340 for the 9600, 390 for the 1060.
12:00 < Triffid_Hunter> natten: filesystem snapshot is ideal, are you using a filesystem that suports them?
12:00 < jhodrien> On CentOS, nvidia-detect would pick that up correctly.
12:02 < natten> Triffid_Hunter: I dont think so. I'm using ext4
12:02 < Triffid_Hunter> natten: LVM will let you do a partition snapshot although if you don't remount read-only first it may be corrupt since the state will be equivalent to killing the power at the instant you take the snapshot
12:02 < jhodrien> Triffid_Hunter: But that shouldn't really be corrupt per se, with a journalled filesystem.
12:03 < ellyacht> jhodrien: Triffid_Hunter: https://imgur.com/off5x6z
12:03 < azarus> jhodrien: emphasis on *shouldn't*
12:03 < azarus> no guarantees
12:03 < ellyacht> https://imgur.com/t24AbtZ
12:04 < jhodrien> If ext4 supports being quiesced, then an LVM snapshot won't even be that bad.
12:04 < jhodrien> Top link looks right for a 9600.
12:05 < jhodrien> Second looks right for 1060.
12:05 < ellyacht> jhodrien: ok both are different drivers
12:05 < jhodrien> Yes.
12:05 < jhodrien> 340 vs 390.
12:05 < ellyacht> jhodrien: so when I use driver manager I get this version
12:05 < jhodrien> Driver Manager?
12:05 < jhodrien> Which distro is this?
12:06 < bazhang> ellyacht, which distro
12:07 < ellyacht> jhodrien: Linuxmint 19 Cinnamon 64
12:07 < ellyacht> https://imgur.com/59q82kD
12:07 < stennowork> sigh
12:07 < bazhang> augh MINT
12:07 < ellyacht> which distro should I be using?
12:07 < jhodrien> I'm shocked it's not well tested on old hardware!
12:08 < ellyacht> jhodrien: sarcasm?
12:08 < Triffid_Hunter> heh I've no idea how to install specific versions of things with apt
12:08 < MrElendig> you generally don't want to
12:08 < jhodrien> Much.   Shiny distros get tested with shiny hardware.
12:08 < MrElendig> there are almost no valid use cases for doing that
12:09 < jhodrien> The read-ahead part of systemd was dropped AFAIK because none of the developers had a machine with a spinning disk to test on.
12:09 < ellyacht> jhodrien: so in any event can I use terminal to run the driver version I have DL'd for my laptop
12:09 < bartmon> natten, an option is to remount your filesystem as readonly. some apps and services will not like it but it should still be usable while copying or dd-ing to a net socket
12:09 < bazhang> mint usually has everything OOTB
12:09 < Triffid_Hunter> MrElendig: I do it all the time with gentoo.. sometimes I need the latest version of something, sometimes I want to hold something back because the latest ver is broken
12:09 < stennowork> good day, i want to downgrade my centos 7.5 to centos 7.4. I am following these instructions: https://www.linode.com/community/questions/469/how-do-i-downgrade-to-an-older-point-release-of-centos-7x , where i learned that centos 7.4 uses kernel version 3.10.0-693
12:09 < bazhang> shocked, shocked it's not
12:10 < tomeaton17> Not sure if this is off topic, but is there some software that can simulate what a pdf looks like at different distances? I need to make sure that my poster is readable from a certain distance, and test printing isnt an option as its too expensive.
12:10 < stennowork> however yum list kernel-3.10.0-693* does NOT list any packages.
12:10 < jhodrien> ellyacht: Maybe.
12:10 < stennowork> how can i get the kernel into my yum list so i can downgrade properly?
12:10 < Triffid_Hunter> tomeaton17: just zoom out in your viewer?
12:10 < bartmon> stennowork, --listduplicates
12:10 < ellyacht> jhodrien: how?
12:11 < stennowork> no such option, bartmon
12:11 < jhodrien> stennowork: You really shouldn't be running 7.4.
12:11 < bartmon> stennowork, sorry, it;s --showduplicates
12:11 < Lope> The only bad thing about the pine64 laptop is apparently the touchpad is crappy. So plugin a mouse. No touchpad is that great.
12:11 < jhodrien> Downgrading point releases would mean tinkering with the repo files.
12:11 < jhodrien> Since the yum repo files are only setup to see files from the latest repos by default.
12:11 < stennowork> jhodrien, i have a 7.4 installation with a lot of packages installed. how can i install the same packages for the 7.5 version?
12:11 < stennowork> ok
12:12 < bazhang> mixing repos?
12:12 < jhodrien> There is no 7.4.  That's the doctrine.  Only 7.
12:12 < stennowork> 'the same' as in the ones with the compatible version
12:12 < bazhang> that's a no-no
12:12 < jhodrien> So yum upgrade on a 7.4 machine should lead you to running a 7.5 setup.
12:12 < stennowork> ooh
12:12 < stennowork> i understand
12:13 < Lope> https://www.armbian.com/pinebook-a64/ no mainline kernel... fuck that.
12:13 < stennowork> i should upgrade 7.4 to 7.5, then export the package list and then i can install those packages on 7.4
12:13 < jhodrien> The point releases should be considered to represent what it looked like at that historical point in time.
12:13 < stennowork> errr
12:13 < MrElendig> Triffid_Hunter: you can sort of do it on gentoo since it is source based, but even there it ends up as a giant unmanintainable mess fast
12:13 < stennowork> on the 7.5 machine
12:13 < stennowork> ok well just doing an upgrade from 7.4 to 7.5 should not be a problem, let me look it up
12:13 < jhodrien> Everything should be on 7.5 now.
12:13 < jhodrien> 7.4 to 7.5 is pretty painless, yes.
12:13 < jhodrien> It's just a yum upgrade.
12:13 < MrElendig> jhodrien: re: readahead, it didn't actually help much at all anyway
12:14 < jhodrien> Nothing is expected to break.
12:14 < jhodrien> MrElendig: Sure, but their quoted reason for ditching it was a bit ropey.
12:14 < stennowork> thanks for the correct hint
12:15 < Lope> The RbPi 3+ is very expensive for the performance vs an H3
12:16 < tomeaton17> Triffid_Hunter: To 1:1 scale?
12:17 < stennowork> it is for me always amazing how this updating can happen while the ssh session are still running fine
12:18 < tomeaton17> The way allwinner releases their linux distro leaves much to be desired
12:19 < stennowork> jhodrien, doing the way you proposed worked just fine. thanks so much again for the correct pointers
12:20 < MrElendig> Lope: but the rpi works with aarch and stock kernel
12:20 < MrElendig> if I was to get something not a pi, I would go up a class anyway and get something with sata/m.2
12:21 < MrElendig> or some atom/celly board
12:21 < tomeaton17> I would recommend the odroid personally
12:21 < bazhang> what's the attraction of the pi
12:22 < bazhang> getting electrocuted easily?
12:22 < MrElendig> uhm, you'll have a hard time getting electrocuted from 5v
12:23 < gagbo_> Hello, if I have a core i5 G7 (2 cores with Hyper threading), should I "aim" a load-average of 2 or 4 ?
12:23 < MrElendig> bazhang: it is a teaching tool mainly, that everyone have decided to abuse for anything but teaching
12:23 < bazhang> heh
12:23 < MrElendig> bazhang: 90% of those that get one uses it as a dust bunny trap
12:23 < torify> Hello. My machines audio is not working. My board is https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/TUF-B360-PRO-GAMING/ and I'm running Fedora 28. To be clear, it does work when I use headphones, but it simply doesn't make any sound when using HDMI Audio or Digital Output. "DTS CUSTOM FOR GAMING HEADSETS", not sure if this means it should just work on headphones. If so, how can I make HDMI Audio work?
12:24 < bazhang> pavucontrol? padevchooser?
12:24 < bazhang> those installed or not
12:24 < torify> I wouldn't have thought so
12:24 < torify> On it
12:25 < MrElendig> make sure to select the correct output profile
12:30 < Lope> MrElendig: You can run mainline kernel on H3 or H2+ just not with GPU acceleration
12:30 < Lope> Much better $/performance vs RbPi
12:32 < BluesKaj> Hey folks
12:33 < Lope> BCMM: I pressed Ctrl+Alt+F2 for a text screen. Logged in, SSH'd into my SSH server, then I tried to run startkde there, and it complained about lack of $DISPLAY variable.
12:35 < Lope> I'm trying to have my current computer (client) act as a thin client and be able to have it's 3 screens run an desktop session of the server
12:36 < MrElendig> no gpu drasticly reduces the usefulness for most use cases
12:36 < MrElendig> gpu acceleration*
12:36 < k_> How can I dpkg -i install_package.deb that depends on it self to be installed ?
12:36 < Lope> MrElendig: only if you want to play videos
12:36 < k_> linux-headers depends on linux-headers however package linux-headers is not installed
12:37 < MrElendig> k_: that is rather insane
12:37 < Lope> there's thousands of use cases that don't involve playing videos
12:37 < MrElendig> not just for playing video
12:37 < k_> What do I do now ,can I force the install somehow ?
12:37 < Lope> MrElendig: the H2+ doesn't even have a GPU.
12:37 < Lope> So nothing to complain about there.
12:37 < MrElendig> I've done plain 2d displays that have been horribly slow without acceleration
12:38 < revel> k_: Why're you using dpkg directly for linux-headers...? Maybe if you install a different version of linux-headers via apt from your distro's repos first (or, better yet, avoid direct dpkg altogether)
12:38 < jinju> Lope: plus most of SBC r now aimed to be started kids like the pi which aims more of teaching things simply n fast
12:38 < Lope> If I press ctrl+Alt+F2 and login there, why is there no $DISPLAY?
12:38 < k_> ok got it
12:39 < revel> If the .deb from your distro has this problem, then consider switching distros, since I don't think a package depending on itself should be a thing on binary distros.
12:39 < peetaur2> Lope: why do you expect there should be?
12:39 < k_> revel, testing out whether my video grabber works before I file a bug report on their mainline kernel repo
12:39 < Lope> jinju: that was the idea of RbPi foundation, but not what happened in reality.
12:39 < peetaur2> Lope: if you connect via X11 protocol from another machine (DISPLAY=:0), and have 2 sessions open locally (:1, :2), and then switch to tty2, how does it know which to use?
12:40 < peetaur2> (I think my another machine example didn't make sense... :0 in that case would be the other machine still)
12:40 < Lope> peetaur2: This is what I want to achieve. I've got my client's own DE session on Ctrl+Alt+F7. Now I want to run a remote X11 forwarding desktop session of a remote server on Ctrl+Alt+F2. If I run `startkde` while in F7, it works, but the 2 DE's get mixed together. I want the remote session on F2 ?
12:41 < jinju> Lope: though they stood by it - not to mention they prech throgh python very simple , the current projects at their website says how well they carried out
12:41 < peetaur2> Lope: so just echo $DISPLAY on one, and then export DISPLAY=... on the other
12:41 < peetaur2> probably
12:41 < Lope> jinju: talking about sales of units. there's like 10-100x more bought by hobbyists and industry than by kids.
12:42 < MrElendig> for the proper thin client experience do vnc with 8 bit color over 2x isdn B channels
12:42 < MrElendig> 800x600
12:42 < peetaur2> does it count as a thin client if it uses a CRT monitor?
12:42 < MrElendig> yes
12:43 < jinju> Lope: true , but their goal was to the core as well , compares to other SBCs like banana or Arduino
12:43 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: so put your ssh -Y blah in a script then xinit `/path/to/script` -- :1 or so? not sure how to make xinit use tty2 though
12:43 < MrElendig> but only if you drop down to 56k for the network
12:44 < Lope> peetaur2: that's not at all what I want hehe. I echo'd $DISPLAY from F7 and exported that on F2, then `startkde` on F2 just mashed both sessions together on F7
12:44 < Lope> I want F2 to have it's own $DISPLAY instance?
12:45 < MrElendig> tell startkde which vte to use
12:45 < Lope> MrElendig: what is a vte?
12:45 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: virtual terminalk
12:45 < MrElendig> what you are calling "F2" and "F7"
12:46 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: I used to run all my games with xinit so they wouldn't mess up my desktop
12:46 < Lope> Ctrl+Alt+F7 F2 etc
12:46 < peetaur2> Lope: if you run a gui app on TTY2, where should it display?
12:46 < Lope> What are those called?
12:46 < Lope> TTY? But it's not a text-only terminal?
12:46 < geirha> virtual consoles
12:46 < Lope> ah, thanks geirha
12:46 < peetaur2> so am I understanding wrong that you want like startx on tty2, and it should start X on eg. tty8 ?
12:46 < Lope> So how do I give F2 virtual console it's own screen?
12:46 < Lope> own $DISPLAY variable?
12:47 < peetaur2> Lope: they are commonly called ttys, however they are not true dump terminal things so they are technically vttys probably, as is your ssh client, etc.
12:47 < peetaur2> *dumb
12:47 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: DISPLAY is purely for Xorg stuff
12:47 < MrElendig> man X
12:47 < BluesKaj> +
12:47 < MrElendig> startkde will pass flags along to it
12:47 < BluesKaj> oops
12:48 < Lope> peetaur2: my client has ubuntu 16 on F7. The remote server is ubuntu 18 with kde. I'm only sitting at the client computer. I want the client computer's own ubuntu 16 on F7 like it normally gets when it boots. Then I want to go into F2 and run the remote ubuntu 18 there.
12:48 < Lope> So I go into F2, SSH to the remote ubuntu 18 computer, then try startkde but there's no $DISPLAY variable there.
12:48 < Lope> So must I startx on F2 first before I ssh?
12:49 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: X always grabs the first unused VT when you start it.. you'll have to make vt2 available and tell X it can use it I suppose
12:49 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: doesn't matter where you startx from, it'll put it on vt7, vt8, vt9 etc unless you have a fiddle with the vt settings
12:49 < ChrisVim> JK
12:50 < Lope> okay well i ran startx on F2 (natively) and I've got a separate DE running now, So I'll try get the remote DE running there. But then I'm running one DE mixed with another.
12:50 < Lope> I don't want to mix the DE's together.
12:50 < peetaur2> not really sure how to do that....but it would be like: you start X on your computer...ubuntu 16 (because it's not a thin client), then you connect to the ubuntu 18 and use x11 forwarding so it displays on your ubuntu 16 (so on the 18, your DISPLAY means go to the 16...a different DISPLAY than you'd see on 16 with echo $DISPLAY)
12:50 < Lope> I want F7 to be local, and F2 to be remote
12:51 < peetaur2> I could tell you how to set that up inside your tty7, but not sure about putting it in 2 (or 8 where it really ought to go)
12:52 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: well xinit /path/to/something -- :1 makes a new X with no DE at all, *only* the thing you asked for running inside
12:52 < Lope> Triffid_Hunter: sounds reasonable
12:55 < Lope> How can I kill the `startx` session that's running on F2?
12:55 < Lope> I've got htop running inside F7 looking for it.
12:57 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: ctrl+alt+backspace inside X usually kills it unless your distro turns that key combo off
12:57 < Lope> this is weird. I started a terminal in F2. Ran sleep 100000. But I can't find the sleep process in htop running on F7
12:57 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: try `ps faux`
12:57 < Lope> Triffid_Hunter: the hotkey didn't work.
12:58 < Lope> sorry, i was confusing myself hahaha. Running htop on the wrong machine. Damn same username with different computer name got me!
13:01 < Lope> Lol I accidentally nuked my DE.
13:01 < Lope> Let's try that again.
13:02 < Lope> Triffid_Hunter: so theoretically I could run `xinit /usr/bin/gnome-terminal -- :1`
13:02 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: yep and get nothing but a terminal
13:03 < ExtremeFMan> sudo! (that's Linuxish for hello)
13:03 < Lope> cannot open /dev/tty0
13:03 < Lope> permission
13:04 < ExtremeFMan> I hate access restrictions with a passion :)
13:05 < Lope> There was no error, but the screen flashed and then it ended.
13:05 < Lope> sudo xinit /usr/bin/gnome-terminal -- :1
13:06 < Triffid_Hunter> shouldn't need sudo, Xorg is setuid afaik
13:07 < Lope> Okay, i tried with /bin/bash instead, The screens just went dark and didn't come back. So maybe now I can export $DISPLAY=:1 from the F7 terminal now and start the DE there >:)
13:08 < Lope> okay I didn't get any errors, and xinit is still running but there's no DE running there. I'm seeing the F2 text console now in F2.
13:09 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: it'll probably be on vt8, just a black screen unless you DISPLAY=:1 someXprogram
13:10 < Lope> oooh, i swapped the command for xterm and now I've got a proper graphical console running on :1 with xterm!
13:11 < Lope> but now when I ran `startkde` in my F7, it killed the F2 x session again.
13:11 < Lope> Something not quite right.
13:12 < Lope> Triffid_Hunter: okay, that explains the black screen
13:12 < Lope> I'm out of ideas
13:13 < Lope> okay, next idea, SSH into the remote computer inside xterm on F2 haha.
13:13 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: you'll never get X on vt2 without a ton of stuffing around
13:14 < Triffid_Hunter> Lope: by default, first X instance goes on vt7, next one goes on vt8, etc. they don't care where you start them from, so running xinit from vt2 isn't gonna put X on vt2, it'll still go on vt8
13:15 < Lope> AMAZEBALLS!
13:15 < Lope> That did it! it worked!
13:16 < Lope> I've got my local X session on F7 and remote X session on F2. No mashed up DE's!
13:16 < Lope> Wow, feel like a haxx0r
13:16 < Lope> I can work on 3 monitors on my computer that only physically has support for 2 external monitors.
13:16 < Lope> Now that's beast.
13:17 < ExtremeFMan> konglaturation
13:17 < Lope> Interestingly, it spawned the remote kde session on F3 :/ whatever, as long as it works!
13:20  * znh burps
13:21 < ExtremeFMan> what is a standard place to store data that is transfered from one process to another? maybe somewhere in /var or is all that reserved for system?
13:22 < V7> ExtremeFMan: /tmp
13:22 < BCMM> Lope: hey, i know it was like an hour ago you highlighted me (was afk), but did you get it sorted?
13:23 < BCMM> ExtremeFMan: can you be a bit more specific about "transferred from one process to another"?
13:23 < Lope> BCMM: yes, thanks buddy. 100% sorted!!!
13:23 < BCMM> Lope: great!
13:23 < ExtremeFMan> hmm... the idea is that one process fetches data, which persists for the other process to access at any time in the future (while the first one keeps updating it at an interval)
13:24 < BCMM> ExtremeFMan: i mean, this isn't android, and processes can read other application's config files and so on
13:24 < Lope> Triffid_Hunter: figured out 99% of the solution.
13:24 < Lope> Well, the end part, you helped me figure out the initial part :)
13:24 < BCMM> ExtremeFMan: depending on the data it might make sense to just put it in ~/.applicationname/
13:24 < BCMM> ExtremeFMan: i don't know what "at any time in the future" means precisely, but that might rule out /tmp/
13:25 < Lope> The initial part was being able to run a reomte DE. The last part I got working now was running that DE on F3 instead of mashing it into F7 with my existing DE.
13:25 < BCMM>  /tmp may or may not be cleared on reboot, but definitely isn't for data that should persist indefinitely
13:25 < BCMM> Lope: yeah, sounds like you needed to actually start a 2nd X server :)
13:28 < ExtremeFMan> the data is collected by a script that runs via cron, to be used by a second script that is a part of a web page, so the data gets accessed, when this page is served
13:28 < plusEV> ,
13:31 < BCMM> ExtremeFMan: the web server would normally have a severely limited ability to read the filesystem, which would dictate where this data should go
13:33 < ExtremeFMan> hmm... maybe I should make a data directory under the web dir (although a database might be a far more elegant solution)
13:33 < BCMM> ExtremeFMan: well i was going to ask, will this whole thing explode if the script is accessed while the cron job is running?
13:34 < BCMM> do you need a lockfile or something?
13:34 < ExtremeFMan> right, if the access happened right at the moment, when the data file is being replaced
13:35 < CrazyTux> triceratux, are you there? are you still using MX Linux?
13:35 < ExtremeFMan> I should at the minimum add a second try a moment later - thanks for the good point!
13:36 < BCMM> ExtremeFMan: how will you know you need to do a second try? i'd be worried about the read completely successfully but having other than expected results
13:36 < BCMM> thus, a lockfile or something
13:36 < Lope> BCMM: Inside F2 I ran `sudo xinit /usr/bin/xterm -- :1` then from there I ssh'd to the remote user. Then I ran `startkde` and got the remote KDE running on F3 while F7 remained intact and unaffected.
13:37 < Lope> presumably I can replace xterm with a ssh command that just runs startkde?
13:37 < ExtremeFMan> the file could be read, while partially saved?
13:37 < BCMM> Lope: yup, that ought to work
13:37 < BCMM> Lope: could make it all in to a nice shell script to save effort later
13:38 < BCMM> (and also set up an ssh key pair if you haven't done that to make things *really* easy)
13:41 < Mysterytrain> I forgot, what is the command to make a volume lable on linux? Like if you want to call /dev/sdb1 data or /dev/sdc1 pictures
13:43 < Namarrgon> that depends on the used filesystem
13:44 < BluesKaj> Mysterytrain:  normally that would be listed in your file manager "devices"
13:45 < Namarrgon> if it is the ext family then look at 'tune2fs' and 'e2label'
13:46 < gbellinoz> oh, oops, Ctrl-B does it.
13:47 < Mysterytrain> e2label, that's it
13:47 < BluesKaj> cli purists  :-)
13:49 < Mysterytrain> BluesKaj: you know it
13:50 < Uller> If I am going to clone 256GB drive onto 320GB drive, will file system get also moved and as it's NTFS drive, will files be accessible normally?
13:50 < Uller> (repost)
13:51 < Lope> BCMM: yes, definitely all of the above.
13:51 < djph> Uller: sure
13:51 < Uller> djph, thanks
13:51 < djph> Uller: note that you'll lose ~70 GB until you resize the partition
13:52 < djph> Uller: also, I'm assuming that by "clone", you mean "dd /dev/256gdrive to /dev/320gdrive"
13:52 < Uller> djph, thats fine i am using bigger drive to ensure that it will get properly cloned
13:52 < Uller> something like: "dd if=/dev/thessd of=/dev/theharddisk bs=64K status=progress"
13:52 < Uller> ssd to hdd
13:53 < ChrisVim> hey folks. are you reading rss feeds on a cli? if so, which reader do you prefer?
13:54 < Uller> djph, I'm pretty bad with linux commands because I am only using it for emergencies lately
13:54 < BluesKaj> Mysterytrain: I like the cli, but some guis are very handy. I'm an old windows guy so old habits are hard to break
13:57 < djph> Uller: looks alright.  I've never used the "status=progress" thing myself, so not sure how well it'll behave for you
13:58 < Uller> me neither, just read it will keep showing progress in terminal
13:58 < Uller> so I will know if it hangs
13:58 < djph> Uller: yeah, I don't usually care :)
13:59 < hendrix> ChrisVim: haven't used it myself but newsboat is popular
14:00 < ChrisVim> thanks hendrix
14:04 < ExtremeFMan> I have a PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK - do I need to add it to my keyring before I can use it to encipher a message to its owner? is it even compatible with gpg?
14:05 < ksk> ExtremeFMan: eh, yes, and afaik yes. did you try? ;)
14:05 < ksk> you could probably also provide it via commandline somehow, dunno.
14:06 < ExtremeFMan> not yet - can I do this without having a key of my own?
14:06 < ksk> yap, that does not matter.
14:06 < ksk> eh, no. what does "encipher" mean to you? decipher?
14:06 < ExtremeFMan> cool, thanks!
14:06 < ksk> please look up how pubkey security works.
14:07 < ksk> with a pubkey you can only verify the author of a message
14:07 < djph> ksk: or encipher something destined for them.
14:07 < ExtremeFMan> I wish to use the recipient's public key to encipher a message to him
14:07 < ksk> if you want to encrypt something, you take this pubkey, and then the dude with the corresponding private-key can decipher it
14:07 < ksk> Im not a native speaker, if encypher = encrypt, then it will work.
14:07 < djph> ExtremeFMan: and yes, you most likely need it in your keyring before it's usable by gpg.
14:08 < djph> ksk: yes, "encipher" = "encrypt" (same as "decipher" = "decrypt")
14:08 < ksk> thx.
14:08 < ExtremeFMan> so I need to first make myself a key ring
14:10 < ananke> ExtremeFMan: there are tons of guides on how to use pgp. have you looked at any of them?
14:10 < ananke> they'd take you step by step
14:12 < Craig_> is there a way to find out in linux what part of the scripts run before my terminal appears have set stty to something?
14:12 < Craig_> somewhere in my many scripts that run before the terminal gives me a shell prompt, e.g. bashrc, profile, etc, something is doing an "stty intr ^E"
14:12 < Craig_> i want to find out where and why, so i can fix it
14:18 < AE-35> Craig_: take a look at  the syslog maybe
14:22 < ExtremeFMan> nah, guides are for idiots! ;) I think I succeeded - it's been 20 years since I've used pgp... thanks for the assistance
14:37 < V7> Hey all
14:37 < V7> When I'm trying to authorize via SSH it says: "Could not chdir to home directory /mnt/somedir/: No such file or directory". sshd_config has ChrootDirectory /mnt/somedir; /mnt/somedir exists
14:38 < V7> https://hastebin.com/opowupehiy.scala
14:39 < V7> Is it right that sshd tries to chroot into %h/mnt/somedir firstly, rather than /mnt/somedir ?
14:39 < Psi-Jack> V7: Yes, but does /mnt/somedir/mnt/somedir exist?
14:39 < V7> Psi-Jack: No, it doesn't, but ... why it should ?
14:39 < Psi-Jack> Because you set a chroot dir.
14:39 < V7> I mean, why it works like that ?
14:40 < Psi-Jack> Thus, first before anything, it chroot's, THEN tries to resolve $HOME
14:40 < V7> Doesn't '/' as first character in path means a root ?
14:40 < Lope> Help! I'm running kde-plasma (the whole DE) over SSH on gigabit lan between 2 idling computers, i5 and i7. and it's slow as shit.
14:40 < Lope> Any ideas?
14:40 < Lope> I thought it would be fast?
14:40 < V7> s/means/mean
14:41 < Lope> The DE is being displayed on 3 monitors of 1920x1080
14:41 < Psi-Jack> V7: https://allanfeid.com/content/creating-chroot-jail-ssh-access
14:41 < tempate> Hello. I'm trying to set up HDMI audio on Fedora 28 and it's not working. My current board is https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/TUF-B360-PRO-GAMING/ which apparently supports "DTS CUSTOM FOR GAMING HEADSETS", which makes audio work with headphones quite well but not HDMI. How should I proceed?
14:41 < Lope> Maybe if I remove the wallpaper it'll help...
14:41 < Psi-Jack> Lope: Why on earth would you think that would be fast? :P
14:42 < bartmon> Lope, it's latency that kills a smooth experience. My approach to remoting is to always run apps locally but have remote persistence, either via nfs or sshfs
14:42 < Lope> I'm getting a mother ton of QXcbConnection errors in the SSH terminal where `startkde` is running.
14:42 < V7> Lope: sshfs is good thing
14:42 < V7> a good *
14:42 < Lope> V7: yeah I use sshfs
14:43 < Lope> Basically I was hoping to setup and even work on my laptop from my desktop.
14:43 < Lope> But I dunno if it's gonna be feasible.
14:43 < Psi-Jack> Lope: X2Go
14:51 < Lope> Psi-Jack: thanks
14:51 < Lope> So how does the performance of X2Go compared to just running kde remotely, for example?
14:52 < ananke> define 'running kde remotely'
14:55 < V7> Thank you Psi-Jack
14:56 < V7> So, there's no way to disable ssh login for user and permit only sftp without chroot, but this will issue as: Not found chdir
14:57 < V7> tempate: Have you tried alsa-utils ?
14:57 < V7> tempate: First of all, you need to check if you're OS sees hardware: lspci, lsusb
14:58 < V7> Then you need to check if a proper module is loaded: lsmod
14:58 < Lope> ananke: via X11 forwarding
14:59 < Lope> I removed the wallpapers, it might be ever so slightly quicker now. Perhaps it was just the setting up of the panels for each monitor that was a bit tedious. When inside one application it's not bad.
14:59 < tempate> V7: the OS seems to be recognizing the hardware. $ lspci : Audio device: Intel Corporation Cannon Lake PCH cAVS (rev 10)
14:59 < tempate> V7: what should I look for with lsmod?
15:00 < ananke> Lope: x2go would perform better. that's the point of x2go
15:01 < horseface> which is a good music player which has a nice layout and lots of features?
15:02 < hendrix> horseface: clementine is my favourite
15:02 < BCMM> tempate: what graphics card are you using?
15:02 < V7> tempate: Don't know actually. You can ask in #hardware
15:03 < V7> horseface: audacious
15:03 < Celmor> I want to format a flash drive with exfat and have it windows compatible, I heard that windows expects the filesystem to start at sector 0 (and therefore not have a partition table) for removable storage, is this true?
15:03 < strixdio> anyone know if there is a way to make your keyboard one-handed with software somehow?
15:03 < horseface> i'll look into them
15:04 < horseface> i am using lollypop but it lacks features
15:05 < peetaur2> Celmor: I always make a GPT table and set the msftdata on
15:05 < BCMM> Celmor: do you have a windows system available now? could you just format under windows to be sure it's in the configuration it expects?
15:05 < Celmor> BCMM, not with a type c port which the flash drive's port is
15:05 < peetaur2> noobs like to look at a device, see no partition table, assume there is nothing there, then overwrite and destroy it...so as a policy I have always made a partition table.
15:05 < BCMM> no partition table on USB storage is relatively common
15:05 < Celmor> peetaur2, msftdata is an attribute? partition type?
15:06 < peetaur2> Celmor: it's some kind of gpt flag:    parted "$disk" set "$partnumber" msftdata on
15:06 < Celmor> I'm gonna try
15:10 < AndroidKitKat> anyone here use neovim?
15:11 < azarus> AndroidKitKat: yes
15:12 < AndroidKitKat> how easy is to do side by side buffers?
15:12 < azarus> :vsplit
15:12 < pianofingers> I always vsplit
15:12 < AndroidKitKat> my current solution is to use tmux and multiple vims
15:12 < azarus> gah
15:12 < azarus> just use :vsplit
15:12 < AndroidKitKat> how do i switch between panes?
15:13 < pianofingers> Then for switching focus I use Ctrl+H and Ctrl+L, I think those are my custom keybindings
15:13 < azarus> ^W+H/L
15:13 < bb36e> GNOME 3 or XFCE…hmmm
15:13 < azarus> neither
15:13 < pianofingers> Will we ever get "User Account Control" on Linux, where you click yes/no instead of entering password? So visual sudo.
15:14 < azarus> pianofingers: gksudo
15:14 < pianofingers> azarus: That seems to always ask for the password. IMO there should be admin accounts where this isn't required.
15:15 < azarus> pianofingers: man 5 sudoers
15:15 < azarus> you can set sudo not to ask for a password
15:16 < n3xuz> Hi. I am trying to stop direct ip access to my apache server and it works for http, but I can still connect using https://ip. Any good ideas for how i can fix this?
15:16 < bb36e> azarus: does gksudo run as some sort of elevated/non-overlayable X window like the UAC prompt? It's easy to mirror the appearance but the security aspect would be trickier
15:16 < azarus> bb36e: dunno, don't really use graphical stuff
15:17 < azarus> and I don't want my desktop to emulate windows
15:18 < bb36e> I have no idea how X works so just spitballing, but I think if an application was able to draw over e.g. gksudo then that would be a pretty serious security issue…
15:18 < WhiteDevil> hello
15:18 < WhiteDevil> where the ladies at "?
15:19 < bb36e> …
15:19 < azarus> WhiteDevil: certainly not anywhere close to you
15:19 < peetaur2> azarus: you are missing the (likely pointless) point... the windows thing is designed so robots and keyloggers and stuff won't affect the input so it's more secure than simply disabling password
15:19 < peetaur2> but of course users will just click yes "go away you pesky thing!" and it results in no gain in security
15:19 < azarus> exactly
15:20 < azarus> so, why bother
15:20 < WhiteDevil> eagerness is a virtue of a significant amount ..like big balls on a tiny man
15:20 < bb36e> Looks like you've been snorting some white devil
15:21 < WhiteDevil> ohh snap
15:21 < bb36e> I'll be here all week, folks
15:21 < WhiteDevil> dont even talk abotu that thing that causes retardation in males
15:21 < pianofingers> yes, why not just run the application full time with the highest privileges
15:21 < pianofingers> no point in UAC
15:21 < azarus> pianofingers: just don't run applications as root
15:21 < azarus> problem solved
15:22 < pianofingers> why, why need UAC at all. Just never use higher privileges.
15:22 < bb36e> I think these days most desktop systems are single user anyways, so the distinction between root and user is becoming less important
15:22 < WhiteDevil> you guys security IT dudes ?
15:22 < WhiteDevil> like ubuntu right ?
15:22 < jiffe> so I've got two C programs, one of which is a test program.  Both programs write to stdout with the last line having no newline, but the test program flushes stdout via fflush() and the other flushes stdout via fgets(stdin).  When I run either program from cmdline I see all stdout as expected, when run from python the test program reads all stdout but the other program only reads all but the last line which
15:22 < jiffe> doesn't include the newline
15:23 < WhiteDevil> i think in ubuntu they dont allow you to log in as root
15:23 < WhiteDevil> you can sudo and run commands tho
15:23 < bb36e> Debian install will disable root as well if you don't provide a root password during setup
15:23 < Exterminador> sudo -i (and then enter the password)
15:24 < WhiteDevil> i see why they wont have root enmabled on ubuntu ..i see that most people using ubuntu come from a windows background
15:24 < WhiteDevil> and they might not understand how voilatile root can be
15:24 < azarus> root isn't volatile, it's quite static in fact
15:25 < WhiteDevil> if you let it loose it can do damange
15:25 < jiffe> any idea why the other program's stdout isn't being read?  Was maybe thinking it was something regarding isatty() but I tested this from the test program and isatty(1) is returning 1
15:25 < clemens3> violent
15:25 < Exterminador> well, last time I've scrwwo things, I just had to reinstall the whole system LoL
15:25 < Exterminador> screwed*
15:25 < WhiteDevil> yes thats the windows way exterminter
15:26 < WhiteDevil> i used to do that often with my windows
15:26 < Exterminador> I've ran some command blindly that removed all read access to system files
15:26 < WhiteDevil> ahh
15:26 < Exterminador> so, basically there was no system to boot
15:27 < WhiteDevil> i have yet to explore the full potential of linux
15:27 < pianofingers> hurr durr but linux is so great and stable that you can run any application from the 90s on it! errr, can't even run a custom installer because it would depend on a GUI and there's no stable GUI shipped on linux systems. No stable userland whatsoever. Trash.
15:27 < Exterminador> and someone cheated me also to run the famous fork bomb
15:27 < azarus> pianofingers: what are you on about
15:27 < pianofingers> azarus: No stable user land is destroying linux
15:28 < azarus> yeah of course it is
15:28 < oiaohm> pianofingers: really its no fixed user land that go Linux most of the other markets.
15:28 < azarus> i mean, it's sooo preventing me from using it
15:28 < WhiteDevil> whats user land ?
15:29 < WhiteDevil> is it the software collection ?
15:29 < bb36e> Non-kernel
15:29 < pianofingers> azarus: Ok, how do I ship a game on windows?
15:29 < pianofingers> linux*
15:30 < azarus> pianofingers: with sources
15:30 < oiaohm> pianofingers: really there is not much difference if you want it to work.
15:30 < azarus> or as an .appimage, whatever
15:30 < WhiteDevil> steam has games on linux
15:30 < oiaohm> pianofingers: most people fail to notice how much windows applications bundle with eahc other.
15:30 < V7> Is there any way to enable beep in porteus linux ?
15:30 < WhiteDevil> i could actually install steam right now and play a few games
15:31 < azarus> steam is a drm platform, don't recommend ;P
15:31 < bb36e> V7: enable the pcspkr kernel module
15:31 < WhiteDevil> fucking netflix is drm too
15:31 < V7> bb36e: Says modprobe: FATAL: Module pcspkr not found.
15:31 < WhiteDevil> so it makes it imppossible to not use them unless you ant to have a security risk
15:31 < bb36e> Oof.
15:31 < V7> WhiteDevil: Try Xonotic
15:31 < peetaur2> pianofingers: windows isn't stable either...what they do is store ancient versions of dlls in some dir that subjectively gets used based on compatibility detection so you don't even know which unpatched security holes there are :)
15:32 < pianofingers> azarus: Okay so I download an appimage and click on it, it opens some disk writer application. That's a no no, you already lost. That young child / grandma / anybody is gone because they don't know they have to tick the EXECUTABLE FLAG.
15:32 < V7> bb36e: What could this tell us >
15:32 < azarus> pianofingers: so you need an OS for illiterate people
15:32 < azarus> feel free to make that yourself
15:32 < clemens3> linux is dschungle, free for all, creative chaos...
15:33 < clemens3> you don't want to ship a game on linux, because you can't sell a game on linux
15:33 < azarus> you can
15:33 < clemens3> so case closed
15:33 < pianofingers> azarus: I just need an os where double clicking does something that's not brain dead
15:33 < peetaur2> clemens3: that's a myth...just bundle the libs and it works fine
15:33 < clemens3> you can ship with hardware included
15:33 < bb36e> azarus: people shouldn't have to be nerds to use computers. Englebart's work proved that more than 50 years ago and we failed to learn from him
15:33 < azarus> pianofingers: clicking on something is such a windows paradigm
15:33 < clemens3> peetaur2: yes, but who buys games for linux?
15:33 < foggyfiles> pianofingers: dumbing down computers is the single biggest problem we're facing right now. the user should be elevated to the level of the OS, not the other way around
15:33 < Lope> clemens3: what a load of BS, just make the game work on multiple platforms. Like Red Eclipse.
15:34 < peetaur2> clemens3: if more existed, more
15:34 < Lope> I've played red eclipse between a linux desktop and a windows laptop, perfect experience.
15:34 < section1> i buy games on linux.
15:34 < section1> using steam.
15:34 < Lope> Overwatch fuckers need to release a linux version.
15:34 < clemens3> okay
15:35 < V7> clemens3: Serious Sam is worth to buy on Linux
15:35 < pianofingers> Lope: They can't.
15:35 < V7> Because of nostalgia
15:35 < clemens3> so ok, i am corrected, so that doesn't answer how to ship, but it definitely seems possible
15:36 < Lope> pianofingers: Henry ford told his engineers to produce a V8 engine from a single block of metal. They said they can't for 1.5 years. Then one day, they could.
15:36 < pianofingers> Henry ford hated jews
15:36 < bb36e> section1: the growth of steam proved that having multiple competing packaging systems holds back a significant amount of software from linux
15:36 < azarus> pianofingers: you're a troll, right
15:36 < foggyfiles> V7: SS is a great game, regardless of nostalgia
15:36 < pianofingers> Lope: LOL sorry, just found that funny. Maybe he was right?
15:36 < Lope> yes he's a troll
15:36 < V7> The most bad thing for game developers isthat DirectX, PhysiX and such are not available in Linux by deafult without a hard cracks so ...
15:37 < V7> foggyfiles: indeed
15:38 < Lope> Instead of the linux devs investing so much effort in nuveau driver, why not provide DirectX compatability?
15:38 < pianofingers> I don't think it would be too much effort to get a pretty good stable userland.
15:38 < Psi-Jack> Ewwwwwwwww
15:38 < V7> So that's why we;re playing Open* ( GL ... ) things right now
15:38 < Psi-Jack> DirectX is soooooo horrible.
15:38 < Lope> Well I suppose the game devs should not be dumb and should just use OpenGL to start
15:38 < azarus> Vulkan, mang
15:38 < foggyfiles> Lope: How about just boycott anti-FOSS companies like nvidia?
15:39 < V7> Lope: This is economy
15:39 < Psi-Jack> Lope: a Game, MDK, was done comparing DirectX and OpenGL. They made both, just to prove a point to themselves and everyone else. OpenGL was faster, better, and easier to do than DX.
15:39 < V7> Windows developing is much profitable than Linux ( not for all cases ofc )
15:40 < Dominian> Windows is slowly leaning towareds open source
15:40 < Psi-Jack> V7: Standard English please.
15:40 < bb36e> I don't think OGL was competitive in the early days, plus with each vendor creating their own graphics lib choosing a library was a gamble. The current state of DX is a result of lock-in and compounding
15:40 < Dominian> which should tell you which way they are going with their strategy
15:40 < V7> THat's the point of linux
15:40 < pianofingers> peetaur2: Why wouldn't the newer DLLs be named differently so this compatibility detection thing isn't needed?
15:40 < foggyfiles> Psi-Jack: To be fair, DirectX was a lot worse back then
15:41 < V7> It's Open. It's for a USER who wants his own OS like he sees it, not for a company or user who jsut uses it as it is
15:41 < Psi-Jack> foggyfiles: It's still worse.
15:41 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: I'm going to lay a bet that eventually Windows will become a DE similar to that of KDE
15:41 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Heh. I would laugh when that day comes.
15:41 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: Well, look at what Apple did.
15:42 < Dominian> :)
15:42 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: What... Did Apple do?
15:42 < Dominian> Rethought MACOS, and  used FreeBSD to build it
15:42 < Psi-Jack> Ahh.
15:42 < Dominian> I can see Microsoft doing the same thing
15:42 < drzacek> I need some help with ssh - I want to automate few things. I use scp to copy a tarball to a remote machine, then I ssh to that machine, move the tarball in correct dir (guess I can scp it to right location), then mount partition rw, sudo install the tarball, remount ro, exit. I would like to put it all in one script to save me work
15:42 < BCMM> the de is the one bit of windows i don't want
15:42 < Dominian> They've already open sourced some of their software as well.
15:43 < BCMM> if microsoft sold a software compatibility layer based on the "real" win32 i'd probably buy it
15:43 < Dominian> and have even submitted code to the kernel for linux for Azure VM stuff
15:43 < V7> drzacek: You can mount a remote dir to local and work with it like locally. After that just unmount it. ( sshfs )
15:43 < AE-35> Dominian: well now they are yanking stuff out it, took telnet out of their latest release...
15:43 < drzacek> V7, that's mighty slow
15:43 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Yes. The newest CEO at Microsoft has been showing good signs.
15:43 < Dominian> AE-35: It's still there.
15:43 < V7> drzacek: Why do you think like that ?
15:44 < drzacek> also require additional dependencies, when I want to provide a neat package (tarball + install script) so I can do it on various machines
15:44 < AE-35> Dominian: where?
15:44 < Dominian> AE-35: You can enable it, but they are now allowing you to install the Linux sub command system into Windows directly which in turn gives you telnet/ssh natively on the command line
15:44 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: there's always ReactOS
15:44 < Dominian> lol
15:44 < V7> drzacek: Might be that #bash can help you
15:44 < drzacek> V7, ok thx
15:44 < foggyfiles> Dominion: Couldn't you always do that with MSYS?
15:45 < Dominian> foggyfiles: no clue
15:45  * Psi-Jack twitches.
15:45 < Dominian> AE-35: You should be able to go into Windows features and enable telnet btw
15:46 < Dominian> I have it enabled on my Win 10 installation
15:47 < AE-35> Dominian: I was referring to macos
15:47 < Celmor> ok, seems my issue is when I split a command among multiple lines the command errors (although I escape newlines
15:50 < Lope> I googled OpenGL vs DirectX. Looks like for a long time OpenGL lagged behind badly, but now they're equivalent in terms of what you can do with them.
15:50 < Lope> But of course releasing for all platforms, opengl is way better. and according to Psi-Jack it's faster, easier to work with etc.
15:50 < Lope> I just find it shitty that blizzard built overwatch with directx only.
15:51 < Celmor> look into DXVK
15:52 < Lope> Celmor: Overwatch can Kind-Of be run on Wine. But there are issues.
15:52 < Lope> Seems easier to dual boot than deal with hassles.
15:52 < Celmor> or put it in a VM
15:53 < Lope> There's another weird solution though... Running windows in KVM and giving it the GPU.
15:53 < Celmor> (OVMF/gpu passthrough)
15:53 < Celmor> that's what I'm doing
15:53 < Lope> But on a laptop it means you've got no monitor to control KVM with.
15:53 < Lope> You'd have to SSH into your laptop from your mobile phone (if you're on the road, for example)
15:53 < Lope> At that point, why not just boot windows?
15:54 < Lope> If you run the GPU and windows in KVM etc, you lose 5% performance
15:54 < Lope> And gain what? headaches or likely headaches?
15:54 < Celmor> just control the kvm host from inside the VM
15:55 < Lope> Celmor: I'd never give windows access to my linux machines.
15:55 < Celmor> or use something like https://github.com/gnif/LookingGlass
15:55 < Lope> Celmor: what does that do?
15:56 < Celmor> 'forward' frame buffer of passed through GPU to host
15:56 < Lope> Celmor: can you use that to share the GPU between windows and linux?
15:56 < Celmor> no
15:56 < Celmor> that's a different technology and currently expensive, only open-source/cheap method I know if is intels vgpu
15:57 < Dominian> AE-35: what about it?
15:57 < Lope> so what do you achieve exactly?
15:57 < Celmor> Lope,  https://www.kraxel.org/blog/2018/04/vgpu-display-support-finally-merged-upstream/
15:57 < bb36e> The GPU passthrough stuff is really cool. I got OK performance and poor audio, but debugging it is a nightmare
15:57 < Lope> One thing I've always thought would be cool is to have a character LCD on your laptop or desktop as a serial style terminal.
15:58 < Celmor> Lope, with looking glass you don't need a dedicated monitor for your VM, you can see the passed through gpus output on the host attached display with minimal latency (memory copy) and uncompressed image
15:59 < Celmor> bb36e, had some issues at the beginning but if you got common hardware and an actual PC and not a laptop chances are good that you get it working without too much troubles, esp. if you use libvirt IMO
15:59 < Celmor> have been using a passthrough setup ever since (like 2 years now)
16:00 < bb36e> I was on a desktop with a gtx 970 and Intel CPU, but maybe I'll try it again in a year to see if people have ironed out the kinks
16:01 < Celmor> well, do you remember what problems you had? did you use qemu directly?
16:01 < Celmor> and what distro
16:01 < Uller> Will "mount -l" list all attached disks?
16:02 < Celmor> it will list mounted disks, not "attached" disks
16:02 < Celmor> or more like mounted filesystems since a filesystem doesn't have to be on a disk
16:02 < Lope> Celmor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs0TJU_sIPc&t=29m44s this? Super slow. 60fps at 400x300 resolution.
16:03 < WhiteDevil> i would like to develop linux tools
16:03 < WhiteDevil> but i think already alot if been done out there in the world
16:03 < Celmor> Lope, well, it can only provide the performance of the iGPU which doesn't come near dedicated GPUs
16:03 < bb36e> Celmor: arch, qemu and libvirt. The first issue was a known groups/permissions error in libvirt, second was intermittent stuttering audio when passing the sound card through. It ran doom (2016) at 40-50 fps on ultra at 1080p tho
16:04 < Celmor> WhiteDevil, find some area you're interested in, look at the existing tools and see if they can be improved
16:04 < WhiteDevil> yea
16:04 < Celmor> creating new software where there's already existing software doesn't help much
16:04 < WhiteDevil> yea i agree..unless i put myself ind oing say sysadmin stuf and realising that maybe there isnt a good enough script or pogram for this particulart task
16:04 < Lope> Celmor: are there any tutorials/videos on this stuff?
16:04 < WhiteDevil> i wont go very far without that
16:05 < Celmor> bb36e, I had better experiences with doom, have some sound crackling but only on high IO, there's a patch out there for a while now that should fix this but hasn't made it upstream yet
16:05 < sanroot> I am using windosw subsystem for linux is there anyvsilution for sound ..pulseaudio?
16:05 < Celmor> Lope, sure, lots of them, check out level1linux
16:05 < hojuruku> Daniel Stone Wayland dev aka "Dan Paulston" (recently created alias because of bad press) aka @fooishbar on twitter has been caught normalizing pedophilia in conjuction with a Satanic SJW Tranny OTO gaydad @Coralin, and the scandal is going viral. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRnt8qQqwZE
16:06 < hojuruku> The Creator Covenant adopted by 40k opensource projects is normalizing pedophilia.
16:06 < Uller> For "dd" destination drive should be all unallocated?
16:06 < Celmor> Lope, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOWcZ6Wicl-1N34H0zZe38w/videos
16:06 < Dr_Coke> lol hojuruku
16:06 < Celmor> Uller, why unallocated, you can dd pretty much onto any drive
16:06 < Dr_Coke> how do you figure it is normalizing it
16:07 < Celmor> or what do you mean by unallocated
16:07 < Uller> Celmor, my drive I want to clone to is unallocated is that fine?
16:07 < hojuruku> http://theothermccain.com/2018/05/30/coraline-ada-ehmke-transgender-feminist-satanic-sjw/ This is bigger than gamergate. It's #opensource meets #pedogate
16:07 < triceratux> hojuruku: hrm well thats m$ problem now
16:07 < hojuruku> That's a story by a wasington times reporter on the issue.
16:07 < hojuruku> yeah the tranny that made the policy on a 240k salary at github got fired.
16:07 < hojuruku> all the information is on the youtube description, including details on the pedophilia cult he's a member of
16:07 < bb36e> hojuruku: jeez that URL has everything in it
16:08 < Celmor> Uller, do you mean it hasn't been formatted? a physical disk can't really be unallocated, it always has data which usually is random
16:08 < Uller> Celmor, it has been completely erased
16:08 < hojuruku> The freenode people try and k-line me for hating sex with children and daniels on #freedesktop and #wayland enforcing love of pedophilia
16:08 < Uller> Celmor, now I am trying to use it as destination drive for cloning
16:08 < Celmor> are the 2 disks the same size?
16:08 < hojuruku> I never disrespected a gay person on IRC I only disrespected two pedophiles and I got banned from freedesktop.org's bug tracker that I only used repsonsiblity for technical matters.
16:08 < Uller> destination drive is big bigger
16:08 < triceratux> hojuruku: its big money but it doesnt get presidents elected anymore. wonder if it can keep redmond afloat
16:09 < Celmor> then you need to resize filesystems/partitions after transfer, why not use a GUI tool like gparted?
16:09 < Uller> Celmor, do I really need to do this if I dont need that extra space?
16:09 < hojuruku> Yeah M$ buying github with their access to private projects is an issue. Everyone will self-host git and you guys will develop some kind of web based P2P pull request system that can't be spammed i hope.
16:09 < Uller> Celmor, I want it to be as 1:1 clone as possible
16:10 < hojuruku> seeing I'm banned from #freedesktop #python and #wayland that are the hotbed of the #CreatorCovenant "code of conduct"
16:10 < Celmor> should be fine then
16:10 < Lope> I don't understand why anyone would want to passthrough when you can dual boot?
16:10 < Uller> Celmor, also source drive has few partitions, some are NTFS and some are EXT4 and some are FAT32 and others too
16:10 < Uller> I guess there wont be any issue
16:10 < hojuruku> try and put these links in there guys, also @CorealineAda REFUSED a pull request to update the document made by fellow SJWs against "kink shaming" to change the document to "between consenting adults" instead of "ALL SEXUAL PREFERENCES" - with the MSM and Ted Talks saying pedophilia is a sexual preference
16:10 < jhodrien> Lope: Because you want to run both OSs at the same time?
16:10 < Lope> The only benefit of passthrough is you can have linux stuff running in the background, that you're unable to interact with while in windows.
16:10 < hojuruku> and daniels banning people for not loving pedophiles - you can see we have a problem.
16:11 < Lope> jhodrien: it's not much of a use case...
16:11 < bb36e> hojuruku: I'm starting to think that you didn't join this channel to talk about Linux…
16:11 < djph> bb36e: starting? what, you still on your first cuppa coffee?
16:11 < hojuruku> on the youtube description you can retweet @pmjones tweets (links in there) he's the php dev who was the first to rebel against the pedophilia normalization code of conduct github was forcing on 40k projects when they used the wizard to start a new project.
16:11 < jhodrien> In our case, we use GPU passthrough because we're using it with a cloud.
16:11 < bb36e> Heh
16:11 < Celmor> Lope, I use linux as main desktop and windows VM only for gaming, if I were to dual boot I would have to save work, close everything, reboot and maybe fight with windows trying to change boot loader or risk it formatting my disks etc., I prefer to have a nice little sandbox for windows where it can't access anything it shouldn't
16:11 < hojuruku> bb36 I was going to slug.org.au since 96 guys
16:11 < jhodrien> Users can boot the OS of their choice with the GPU they want.
16:12 < azarus> jhodrien: GPU passthrough is cool
16:12 < azarus> I use it for gaming ;)
16:12 < Uller> Celmor, do you know the answer to my last question about those partitions?
16:12 < jhodrien> For many things I'd prefer the vGPU type stuff rather than pure passthrough.
16:12 < hojuruku> I am luke mckee - i was lmc@rtsgroup.net (share trading software for Duthce Bank / Chris Brown Brokerage that did insider trading on UA 9/11 PUT OPTIONS) on the slug.org.au mailing list. RTSGROUP.NET does the market making options computer trading software for DB.
16:13 < hojuruku> trust me I been into linux for a long time, try and debunk that claim ;)
16:13 < Psi-Jack> hojuruku: In Linux, what is "virtual memory?"
16:13 < Celmor> Uller, if you want a 1:1 clone just copy everything byte-by-byte which dd can do, though I'd prefer dd rescue since it can check for bad sectors, go "around them", produce a log and continue after interruption
16:13 < Celmor> https://www.gnu.org/software/ddrescue/
16:14 < Lope> Celmor: I boot windows with grub and have never had a problem with windows messing with my other stuff or boot manager etc. Just use an old windows, like W7 and disable updates.
16:14 < jhodrien> ++ for ddrescue.
16:14 < hojuruku> I'm hoping the devs here who don't want to be fired for DISREPECTING PEDOPHLIES OFF DUTY from their IT JOB (@CoralineAda has famously tried to remove a maintainer who disrespected LGBT in his OWN TIME away from the project) will share my research. Don't go along with SJWs trying to take over silicon valley and talk about threatening to kill themselves attention seeking at opensource conferences (video on theothermccain.com link)
16:14 < Uller> Celmor, but source drive is SSD and destination is HDD. HDD was just recently checked for bad sectors with mhdd and it was fine. thanks for link
16:14 < Celmor> Lope, doesn't even support all the games, dx12, etc.
16:14 < hojuruku> Psi-Jack swap
16:14 < hojuruku> Psi-Jack: but i use zswap :)
16:14 < Psi-Jack> hojuruku: Wrong
16:14 < Psi-Jack> You fail.
16:15 < Dr_Coke> hojuruku Corey Dale “Coraline Ada” Ehmke is really a piece of work it seems
16:15 < Lope> hojuruku: what the fuck are you on about?
16:15 < hojuruku> PSI-Jack: oh you mean how each program get's their private memory space, yeah ok
16:15 < Psi-Jack> No.
16:15 < Psi-Jack> I mean "virtual memory", exactly that.
16:15 < Celmor> also I prefer to share resources, I'm running server applications on my linux desktop, starting up windows would interrupt everything and I don't like starting a game and not be able to do something while it's loading, etc.
16:16 < hojuruku> PSI-Jack: trying to hijack the discussion shoot the messenger, typical LGBT tactics, anyway moving on. Look i've wrote lots of patches, and pull requests, but I had my github censored by @CoralineAda too (it was hojuruku)
16:16 < Uller> Celmor, additionally that SSD device is completely fine
16:17 < hojuruku> Celmor there is also a differerent version of dd-rescue I like more.  http://www.garloff.de/kurt/linux/ddrescue/
16:17 < bb36e> Has pulseaudio done more good or harm for Linux?
16:17 < Psi-Jack> And yet, you don't even know what virtual memory is in Linux.
16:17 < jhodrien> Uller: There's no real downside to ddrescue for this.  It also gives you more progress information without needing to use something like pv.
16:17 < Celmor> doesn't hurt to use a more intelligent tool
16:17 < Psi-Jack> You have been debunked, by a SINGLE question.
16:17 < Lope> Your sex life details don't belong in ##linux.
16:17 < jhodrien> hojuruku: Although don't use that one.
16:17 < jhodrien> ddrescue by GNU is the newer better form.
16:18 < hojuruku> Psi-Jack - I run gentoo - not a single bit of code on my system was downloaded in binary form. I'm not a ricer, but I use openmp, tuned cflags, lto and graphite on nearly everything, and a shitload of my own ebuilds i would have made into a github overlay if github wasn't in sanfran.
16:18 < hojuruku> so please stop going on a power trip because you hate me for hating pedophilia. Let's just keep the kids safe ok. i think everyone here agrees on that.
16:18 < Psi-Jack> !ops hojuruku Trolling
16:18 < jhodrien> hojuruku: Ah, a full on gentooer.  Can we just remember this is ##linux and not anything else.
16:18 < hojuruku> the other one allows plugins for md5sum, crypt etc, I've used it to backup vps's and it works great.
16:19 < bb36e> Dude, we all are against pedophilia but that doesn't mean we care about your crusade
16:19 < Psi-Jack> ^ exactly.
16:19 < hojuruku> well virtual memory historically in windows 3.1 went directly to disk :P i'm too old school now please give me a break. I'm not a posix programmer, I'm a netadmin. I mostly use perl and php
16:20 < Psi-Jack> I never mentioned anything outside of the subject matter of Linux. :)
16:20 < Psi-Jack> hojuruku: No, "virtual memory" in Windows is the same as it is in Linux.
16:20 < Dr_Coke> hey hojuruku http://theothermccain.com/2018/06/19/fat-gay-and-stupid-update/
16:20 < Dr_Coke> lol read the end of the story
16:20 < Dr_Coke> for sure
16:21 < hojuruku> Opensource projects pulling in a document that says ALL sexual preferences must be respected whilst MSM news and ted talks and CNN says pedophilia is a sexual preference RELATES TO LINUX and 40k opensource projects in the echosystem, probably half the software you running affected by #CreatorCovenant VIRUS.
16:21 < Psi-Jack> Just they visually labeled "virtual memory" someplace and people assumed that's what it meant it was, even when it's not. Which is why I use that question, because MOST people don't know.
16:21 < jhodrien> hojuruku: Just be quiet.
16:21 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Poke
16:21 < Dominian> sup
16:22 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: Troll alert, hojuruku's on some kind of crusade here.
16:22 < djph> Psi-Jack: is "crusade" another word for "drugs" now?
16:22 < Psi-Jack> Maybe. :)
16:22 < hojuruku> Just shut up and don't hate sex with kids. Ok I'm going now but i'll leave you to the link with all the details on the religion of toddler orgies Ordo Templi Orientis (with photos of orgies, and kids in it - but before it gets hardcore so not CP) that @CoralineAda who made the CreatorCovenent "code of conduct"  https://8ch.net/pol/res/11616373.html
16:22 < DLange> bye
16:22 < hojuruku> Opensource is really being taken over by hardcore pedophiles. Do something about. End rant
16:22 < bb36e> Uh
16:23 < azarus> 8ch.net? careful
16:23 < Psi-Jack> Yay. :)
16:23 < bb36e> Take /b/ and multiply it by 2…
16:23 < hojuruku> it's sticky and the thread has been there for a month. they would have censored it if it was too bad. Don't believe the M$ style fud from the queers. Fear Uncertianty and doubt.
16:23 < azarus> whee
16:23 < djph> bb36e: /e/ ?
16:24 < azarus> /lgbt/ of course
16:24 < azarus> :P
16:24 < bb36e> And now he's gonna say that ##Linux is full of pedophile supporters who banned him for speaking the truth
16:24 < djph> azarus: /omgwtfbbqstgaoihdsf/ <-- see I can do it too
16:24 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: ah
16:24 < azarus> djph: no, /lgbt/ is a valid board iirc
16:24 < Psi-Jack> bb36e: Good. He can do so /elsehwhere/. :)
16:24 < tempate> BCMM: Intel's i5 8400, Intel® UHD Graphics 630. Apologies for the late response.
16:25 < djph> azarus: I know, but there's like 80-billion random new letters after that now, apparently.
16:25 < azarus> okay
16:25 < triceratux> !0ps Ps1-Jack trolling anti sjw nutcase
16:25 < triceratux> oops
16:25 < ayecee> come on man
16:26 < djph> o_O
16:26 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Someone actually tried to use Ps1-Jack before. :)
16:26 < Uller> How long could it take to clone 256GB SSD to HDD? HDD is running at 50-80MB/s and bs is default
16:26 < tempate> Hello. My board is https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/TUF-B360-PRO-GAMING/ and it does support headphone audio which does indeed work. However, when switching to HDMI audio it's simply not working. My graphics card is Intel's i5 8400, Intel® UHD Graphics 630. How should I proceed? What should I do?
16:27 < ayecee> Uller: seems like a math problem
16:27 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Funny thing is... I own the nick Ps1-Jack, and could just kick them off. :)
16:27 < djph> 256 G / (0.05 G) = 5120 seconds = 85 minutes.
16:28 < Uller> ayecee, that default bs that is 512B is complicating things
16:28 < Uller> ayecee, speed will go up and down for small stuff
16:28 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: wont take long before they realise they dont get far going that way ;)
16:29 < ayecee> Uller: small stuff?
16:29 < ayecee> this is a raw disk image. there's no small stuff.
16:30 < Uller> ayecee, http://blog.tdg5.com/tuning-dd-block-size/
16:30 < ayecee> i understand what that does
16:30 < ne2k> I'm trying to pass a USB bluetooth device (btusb driver) through to an unprivileged container. I believe all I have to do is lxc config device add CT btusb usb vendorid=xxx productid=xxx. I've also set the mode to 666 as an article suggested it. the /dev/bus/usb node has appeared in the container, but if I run hcitool it still finds no devices and says invalid device: address family not supported
16:30 < ne2k>  found lots of references to bind mounds adn cgroups and stuff, but they seem to be old articles. the impression I get is that with LXD 3.0.0 which I have, none of that should be necessary
16:30 < ayecee> and a bigger block size would probably help, but not because of small stuff.
16:31 < Lope> Celmor: https://gist.github.com/Misairu-G/616f7b2756c488148b7309addc940b28 this is cool. I've got an optimus laptop with Nvidia GT540M and I see it might be possible to do GPU passthrough with it.
16:32 < Chris_A> Hi.  I installed Debian 9 and was wondering what is the best way to allow a domain admins to mount.  would using a group and sudo be the best way?
16:32 < Uller> ayecee, so by math it would be around 1-2hours
16:32 < Uller> assuming 50MB-80MB/s is uphold
16:33 < Celmor> Lope, yeah it's possible, depends on the laptop though, worth a try if you already got one
16:33 < ayecee> Uller: that looks like the math alright
16:34 < Celmor> it doesn't say if you need to stop xorg every time on the host you want to use it in the VM though, it just says "Can pass your Nvidia dGPU to your VM when you don't need it in your host machine"
16:34 < bb36e> I'm having terrible WiFi quality with my adapter, does anyone have any tools or approaches to debugging WiFi issues?
16:34 < Lope> Celmor: yeah, it would be kind of convenient to run games with passthrough, but I'm not really looking forward to pain.
16:34 < Lope> Celmor: i anticipate pain.
16:34 < Celmor> but there are solutions to "pause" a xorg session
16:35 < Celmor> worth a try at least, would look if someone replicated that setup with the same model you have first
16:35 < n-iCe> hi
16:35 < Lope> Celmor: the main benefit I see in passthrough is not needing to waste space on my SSD for windows. I could put windows on slow storage and overwatch on an SSD backed virtual disk. Windows is so massive.
16:36 < Lope> Celmor: yeah i might try it some time if I'm feeling frisky.
16:37 < Celmor> used to think that but now I use dedicated storage for my VM, directly booting from a virtual disk on that passed through storage via windows boot loader
16:38 < Celmor> so I can still share a "base image" between VMs
16:38 < Celmor> and can snapshot
16:40 < ballison> i'm using pam_krb5.so to authenicate users in mysql via the percona auth_pam module.  it works except the version of mysql i'm using will not allow me to create accounts over 16+ characters (and due to our product I can't upgrade the mysql version)
16:41 < ballison> so I'd like to use alias's in kerberos and I have the alias working and I can kinit -C against the alias and it works.
16:41 < ballison> but when I add that name to mysql and try to use it I get "Client not found in Kerberos database"
16:41 < ballison> so I'd assume theres a line I need to add to my /etc/pam.d/mysqld to allow it to allow alias's for kerberos
16:42 < ballison> like an option for the krb pam module
16:42 < Lope> Celmor: that's not incompatible with what I said though (windows on slow storage, overwatch on fast storage)
16:42 < ballison> https://pastebin.com/raw/bPEeuBXi
16:42 < ballison> that's my existing /etc/pam.d/mysqld and it works for normal principals in kerberos
16:42 < Lope> Celmor: you can put LVM on the slow storage and snapshot it etc.
16:43 < ballison> Anyhow know how to get the module to pass alias names as well?
16:43 < Lope> Celmor: but I really like that idea of using LVM underneath VM's very clever idea!! I should do that.
16:43 < Celmor> Lope, you want to share storage between VM and host though, with my method I use PCIe passthrough to give exclusive access of the m.2 ssd to the VM so I don't depend on an emulated storage driver which I always have had problems with
16:44 < Lope> Celmor: I've never had any problems with virtual disks.
16:44 < JeffATL> i have an "edge" machine that is dual-homed - one NIC is on an office LAN (DHCP) and another NIC is connected to a cluster of other machines. the edge machine runs dnsmasq and handles NAT for the cluster, so the cluster-facing NIC has a static IP. All this works, but I need the edge machine to resolve office LAN names, internet names, *and* cluster node names.
16:44 < Celmor> ymmv
16:44 < ballison> anyone know?   or is there a place that would?  i asked on the kerberos channel as well.
16:44 < MrElendig> virtio works quite well for storage, as a sidenote
16:45 < JeffATL> right now dhcpcd writes resolv.conf, so if i put its cluster-facing IP address in there, it'll get overwritten
16:45 < Lope> Celmor: the only time I've ever passed storage through to a VM is when I take my on-the-metal (SSD) windows installation, and pass that through to virtualbox, and boot it. I use virtualbox with it's experimental 16/32MB 3D display adapter, which is good enough to launch the blizzard client, so I can download overwatch updates without having to reboot into windows first. So I can download the updates while still in linux, then reboot and play
16:45 < Lope> immediately.
16:46 < searedvandal> bb36e, wavemon is pretty decent
16:47 < Celmor> Lope, qemus emulated graphics adapter would probably enough for that purpose too, you could even try out vgpu https://www.kraxel.org/blog/2018/04/vgpu-display-support-finally-merged-upstream/
16:48 < Lope> Yeah, thanks I might try it some time.
17:08 < Lope> ananke: Psi-Jack: x2go is fast as hell!
17:08 < Psi-Jack> Exactly.
17:08 < Lope> Compared to the DE on it's own.
17:09 < Lope> How is this possible?
17:09 < Lope> Black magic?
17:09 < Psi-Jack> Different methods.
17:09 < Lope> I call voodoo.
17:09 < Lope> I've given it one of my 3 monitors.
17:09 < Lope> Can I somehow minimize it?
17:10 < Lope> Can I use all 3 monitors and somehow minimize it?
17:10 < Psi-Jack> Just run specific apps you actually need, and use them on any displays you want, any time.
17:11 < Lope> Psi-Jack: I want to see if it's feasible to work on my laptop as a whole DE from another machine
17:11 < Lope> for interest sake.
17:11 < DildoSwaggins> 6788787878787878787878787878787878787899999999999999999999999999999999kunnn4444444444444444444444444444444444444444```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
17:11 < DildoSwaggins> ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
17:11 < DildoSwaggins> ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
17:11 < Psi-Jack> You don't need "a whole DE"
17:11 < DildoSwaggins> ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
17:11 < Psi-Jack> !ops DildoSwaggins Flooding
17:12 < DildoSwaggins> ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
17:12 < DildoSwaggins> ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
17:12  * Psi-Jack buries the body.
17:13 < b1101> Psi-Jack: lol
17:13 < Lope> Psi-Jack: I want to setup my laptop from my desktop, and work on it, so it's all ready for me when I unplug it and go.
17:13 < Lope> It seems feasible now, especially with x2go
17:13 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.
17:14 < Lope> All i need now is a way to "minimize" the x2go session
17:14 < Lope> instead of terminate it.
17:15 < tips-fedora> what's up guys. I just got a new external hard drive and was wondering what filesystem I should put on it. I was thinking about LUKS + ext4 but I'm curious if anyone else had recommendations
17:15 < Lope> Found keyboard shortcuts here: https://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/doc:usage:x2goclient
17:16 < Lope> tips-fedora: for drives that I don't hot-unplug (hot plug is fine, but not unplug) I LOVE LVM. But unplugging LVM requires you to make the volumes and vg and pv non-active or whatever and that's a hassle unless you script it, which I've not done yet.
17:17 < Lope> tips-fedora: generally ext4 is my fav fs though. I love that it can grow and shrink.
17:18 < Lope> I recommend you make the first partition on it a 4GB fat32 partition, if you know anyone or are likely to know anyone with a mac and want to be able to exchange files with them quickly and easily.
17:18 < tips-fedora> RougeR: I already have scripts that unlock & mount, and lock and umount. Hot plugging shouldn't be a problem
17:19 < jhodrien> Lope: That's the default with x2go isn't it?
17:19 < tips-fedora> abra0: I don't want anyone to use my drive. If they need access to my data they can install linux and figure out how to mount a LUKS partition
17:19 < Lope> tips-fedora: yeah I guess if you're dealing with LUKS then adding LVM into the mix isn't a problem.
17:19 < jhodrien> Just disconnect.
17:20 < Lope> jhodrien: I want to move back and fourth between the remote DE and local DE
17:20 < tips-fedora> Lope: LUKS is pretty easy to use. It's a lot easier than encrypting individual files with GPG
17:20 < Lope> tips-fedora: for sure.
17:20 < Lope> tips-fedora: i was surprised how easy luks is to use.
17:21 < jhodrien> So you'd run an x2go client on the laptop too.
17:21 < Lope> jhodrien: that doesn't make sense for what I'm doing
17:22 < jhodrien> You're wanting to tinker on your laptop, but be able to unplug your laptop and walk off with the state you had when you were remotely accessing it from your desktop?
17:22 < tips-fedora> Lope: LUKS isn't the most secure but it's better than nothing and easy to use. My threat model isn't the NSA, just any layperson who wants access to my data without my consent
17:22 < Lope> tips-fedora: exactly. Encryption is to stop thieves from doing easy identity theft or fraud. I live in South Africa. I encrypt all my stuff.
17:23 < Lope> tips-fedora: but it's nice to have a part of the drive that's not encrypted, you might just want to share a (non-copyrighted) movie with a friend for example, or play it on their TV or whatever.
17:23 < tips-fedora> Lope: I'm in America but people still take stuff or snoop without my consent. Encryption by default is safer than getting your files stolen
17:24 < Lope> tips-fedora: yeah, also if you develop some intellectual property of some sort, you don't want that stolen
17:24 < tips-fedora> Lope: I keep a 32G FAT32 flash drive lying around just incase I need to share data between systems
17:24 < Lope> It takes all the stress out of your hardware being stolen.
17:25 < ayecee> some of the stress
17:26 < Psi-Jack> Heh. Yeah. Some. Not all.
17:26 < Lope> yeah, some haha
17:27 < Hejkki> i cannot see my android phone when i type ifconfig -a on ubuntu
17:27 < Psi-Jack> ifconfig is obsolete and broken.
17:27 < Lope> I find it amazing that people don't encrypt their portable devices storage.
17:27 < ayecee> i can't see your android phone with ifconfig -a either
17:27 < Hejkki> i have turned on the usb networking on android
17:27 < Hejkki> any ideas on how to get the usb sharig of internet working?
17:27 < tips-fedora> if you don't encrypt everything you should reconsider your entire life
17:28 < ayecee> if you encrypt everything you should also reconsider your entire life
17:28 < Psi-Jack> tips-fedora: ^
17:28 < tips-fedora> ayecee: I acknowledge that I am schizoid but better safe than sorry lol
17:28 < Psi-Jack> Took the words right outa my hands.
17:29 < ayecee> bottom line seems to be reconsider your life.
17:29 < ayecee> tips-fedora: schizoid, or paranoid?
17:29 < ayecee> not the same thing.
17:29 < tips-fedora> ayecee: both at the same time
17:29 < ayecee> that's rough.
17:29  * triceratux reconsiders ayecees life
17:31 < Pentode> my stepfather was paranoid/schizo.. not fun o_o
17:31 < tips-fedora> Pentode: did he worry about encrypting his pictures of smug anime girls ad much as I do?
17:32 < Hejkki> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2132326&highlight=android+usb+internet
17:32 < Pentode> lol
17:32 < Hejkki> i have read that i do not need to do anything to get it working, but for me it isn't working
17:33 < ayecee> Hejkki: maybe see what the kernel is seeing. take a look at the output from dmesg immediately after plugging in the phone.
17:33 < Psi-Jack> Heh
17:34 < Pentode> feeling in my finger is finally coming back after that focus voltage incident. so happy, lol.
17:34 < polprog> Pentode: fixing some tubes? what happened?
17:36 < Pentode> i was having a problem with the horizontal amplifier in my analog scope. i had my left hand on the top right of the case and my finger slipped right inside the boot on the focus/intensity pot
17:37 < polprog> ouch
17:37 < Psi-Jack> Ooooh, yeah, ouch.
17:37 < Pentode> thankfully my other hand was not grounded
17:37 < Pentode> so it just nailed the end of my finger, but its been numb for like three months
17:37 < Psi-Jack> Good thing that. :)
17:37 < Psi-Jack> three months? Sheisa!
17:37 < Pentode> first time i got zapped since i was 18 or 19
17:37 < polprog> i was calibrating my analog scope recently as well but i never got zapped i think
17:38 < Pentode> i know i couldn't believe it
17:38 < Hejkki> ayecee: https://pastebin.com/9NUqSGsw
17:38 < tips-fedora> I try to not mess with hardware unless I absolutely need to so I never get shocked
17:38 < Hejkki> ayecee: note the line "Here i have turned on the usb sharing of internet:"
17:38 < Psi-Jack> Hejkki: pastebin.com is frowned upon due to many issues they themselves have caused. Pastes being reformatted, malvertising, adblock blocking, being blocked due to many reasons. See /topic for the channel's official pastebin.
17:38 < polprog> i was close to while taking apart a porta-tv when i was 12 but thankfully i just shorted the tube pin to chassis with a screwdriver
17:38 < Pentode> when i was a teen i was rebuilding an old grommes tube amp and got a real nasty B+ shock. almost killed me.
17:38 < ayecee> nokia eh
17:38 < polprog> i had this kind of a neon tester driver with plastic rod casing
17:39 < polprog> luckily
17:39 < Lope> If I run x2go in my normal virtual console (Ctrl-Alt-F7) then it can use one of my 3 full screens, no problem. If I use virtual console 3 (F3), which I started in F2 using  `sudo xinit /usr/bin/x2goclient -- :1` then when I login, the screen that I get is tiny, only maybe 400x300 pixels or whatever.
17:39 < Lope> Is that caused by the way I'm running xinit?
17:39 < ayecee> Hejkki: looks like the phone isn't responding via usb after switching on usb sharing.
17:39 < Lope> ananke: Psi-Jack ^^
17:39 < Pentode> i've always been real careful but you really have to pay attention and stay on your toes with that sort of thing. ;)
17:40 < ayecee> Hejkki: if you're lucky, it's just a bad cable. maybe try another.
17:40 < Lope> I suppose I could start a full X session instead of just xinit...
17:40 < ayecee> Hejkki: is it plugged into a hub?
17:41 < Lope> Do I need to add -geometry?
17:41 < Lope> `man xinit` doesn't explain -geometry
17:42 < Hejkki> ayecee: n hub, and this is a brand new phone with new cable
17:42 < ayecee> n hub?
17:42 < Hejkki> no hub
17:42 < Hejkki> sorry :)
17:42 < ayecee> try a different cable anyways
17:42 < Hejkki> i do not have any other cables
17:42 < Hejkki> since they are different type
17:43 < ayecee> because if it's not that, then there probably isn't a way to make this work
17:43 < Hejkki> ok
17:43 < ayecee> if there's a software update available for the phone, wouldn't hurt to apply that as well.
17:45 < Hejkki> ayecee: at least i can use it to transfer files from the phone, so i suppose the cable is ok?
17:46 < ayecee> sure, probably. it's probably the phone that's the problem.
17:46 < Hejkki> ok great
17:46 < Psi-Jack> What kind of phone is it?
17:46 < ayecee> nokia 7
17:46 < Hejkki> nokia 7 plus
17:46 < Psi-Jack> Ahh
17:46 < Hejkki> android
17:46 < Psi-Jack> Nokia. Yeah.
17:47 < Hejkki> best android phone i have ever had :)
17:47 < Pentode> Lope, you could try changing it with xrandr...
17:47 < Psi-Jack> I think the Pixel would be better.
17:47 < Pentode> Lope, im not sure if the -xf86config option is still valid? if so you can specify modes with that.
17:47 < Hejkki> but nore expensive
17:47 < Psi-Jack> Least it's constantly updated.
17:47 < Hejkki> more*
17:48 < ayecee> Psi-Jack: sure, but can you throw it across the room into the far wall?
17:48 < ayecee> because i'd kinda like to see that.
17:48 < Psi-Jack> Heh.
17:48 < Psi-Jack> With the right case, sure. :)
17:49 < Psi-Jack> Personally though, I don't use Android anymore.
17:49 < Uller> is there any way of checking dd progress while its running... I used old distro that didnt support status=progress
17:49 < ayecee> ios 4eva, eh
17:49 < Psi-Jack> So far.
17:49 < tips-fedora> How do I just go full RMS and not use a cell phone?
17:50 < ayecee> first, grow a long beard
17:50 < Psi-Jack> tips-fedora: Throw your cell phone accross the room into the far wall,.
17:50 < Pentode> Uller, check out pv.
17:50 < ayecee> XD
17:50 < Psi-Jack> heh
17:50 < Uller> Pentode, yeah but can I check it while dd is already running
17:51 < Pentode> yeah just pipe it
17:51 < ayecee> Uller: send sigusr1 to the process - kill -USR1 pid
17:51 < tips-fedora> Psi-Jack: I'm listening to Linux Unplugged right now on it I don't want to throw it
17:51 < ayecee> dd reports current progress and speed when it receives that signal.
17:51 < Psi-Jack> tips-fedora: meh..
17:52 < Psi-Jack> kill -USR1 $(pgrep ayecee)
17:52 < ayecee> oh, you know, just chilling
17:52 < Psi-Jack> hah
17:52 < tips-fedora> me listening to jupiter broadcasting: I should get ting and sign up for digital ocean. Chris sold me on it
17:53 < Psi-Jack> I hate jupiter broadcasting.
17:53 < Psi-Jack> They're sooooooo stupid there.
17:53 < Uller> Psi-Jack kill -SIGUSR1 [process PID?]
17:53 < ayecee> yes
17:54 < Psi-Jack> yesno.
17:54 < ayecee> naybe
17:54 < tips-fedora> Psi-Jack: They are pretty stupid but BSDnow is a nice program. It's Linux for normies but I need to keep up on distro drama so I can make fresh jokes
17:54 < Lope> pentode that's a fair idea
17:55 < Psi-Jack> tips-fedora: I pretty much only listen to 2 podcasts currently.
17:55 < Psi-Jack> SecurityNow, and the Red Hat Podcast.
17:55 < ayecee> is one of them car talk?
17:55 < ayecee> aw.
17:56 < Psi-Jack> No, but, ayecee, did you know that a modern day car has a CAM bus? Actually most now have 2 CAM buses.
17:56 < ayecee> two, eh? one for the engine, one for the entertainment and such?
17:56 < Psi-Jack> And you know how they talk to each of the components within each bus? By broadcasting, insecurely. LOL
17:57 < Lope> hey guys on virtual console 2 (Ctrl Alt F2) I tried running an application directly with xinit, but it ran in a very small space. Then I tried running startx. That gave me gnome, but I noticed my monitors were in the wrong order. I ran mate-display-properties, tried to re-arrange them, but it didn't have any effect. Still when I started programs, they ran very small (about 400x300) but the actual desktop space where gnome's wallpaper drew was
17:57 < Lope> 1920x1080 x3 monitors.
17:57 < tips-fedora> Psi-Jack: I listen to SecurityNow and Red Hat's Command Line Heros, but like I said I need to keep up on distro drama
17:57 < Psi-Jack> Yep, One for the entertainment the "less secure" part.
17:57 < Pentode> canbus can do it
17:57 < ayecee> i guess wires wrapped in a steel cage would normally be considered a trusted environment.
17:57 < Psi-Jack> heh
17:57 < tips-fedora> Lope: just run "startx /bin/program" to run a program without a wm. If you want a window manager use something small like twm then launch your graphical application from xterm
17:58 < Psi-Jack> Until they link the always-on-even-when-you-turn-it-off wifi hotspot to both busses.
17:58 < ayecee> that they haven't already tells me they're thinking about this too
17:58 < Psi-Jack> tips-fedora: *yawns* No you don't. We're not at war. :p
17:59 < Psi-Jack> It's already happened.
17:59 < Psi-Jack> LOL
17:59 < ayecee> there are no winners in war. only survivors.
17:59 < triceratux> is that true about distros as well ?
17:59 < ayecee> sure
18:05 < Pusteblume> hello
18:05 < tips-fedora> Pusteblume: hi
18:06 < Lope> I broke my desktop again lol
18:06 < SuperSeriousCat> rekt
18:06 < Lope> Okay, let's try that again
18:06 < Psi-Jack> So, my average memory utilization is actually relatively lower with Solus than any other distro. 5 days already, constant uptime, constant utilization... And still <4GB memory used for what normaly would easilly be using 8~16GB.
18:07 < Dominian> So what's the cause of that huge difference is my question
18:07 < ayecee> doesn't include firefox
18:07 < Lope> tips-fedora: I tried running just the x2goclient with xinit, but then the window it produces is tiny. only 400x300 pixels roughly on a 1920x1080 screen.
18:07 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: It does actually.
18:07 < mgolisch> wow how does it do that?
18:07 < truckcrash> hello, I have a recently departed staff member that I need to remove access to our server for. I don't suspect any foul play or anything so I am not worried about root kits or the like. If I change their password, and remove their ssh keys from authorized keys, I should be ok yes?
18:07 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: -O2 optimizations rather than -O3.
18:07 < truckcrash> is there any other method to gain access?
18:08 < ayecee> truckcrash: normally yes
18:08 < Lope> Then I tried running startx and I got the same small tiny window ontop of a big gnome3 desktop wallpaper that took up the whole screen.
18:08 < truckcrash> perfect. thanks
18:08 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: ah
18:08 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: -O3 is actually a bad thing most times.
18:08 < ayecee> truckcrash: would be good to lock their account as well.
18:08 < Lope> is it possible that I can run 2 desktop environments on the same computer?
18:08 < SuperSeriousCat> truckcrash, did you tail and log .bash_history? So it could not be tempered with
18:08 < tips-fedora> Lope: Can you check x2goclient manpages to see if it'll take size arguments? Maybe you can write a script
18:08 < mgolisch> thats kinda unlikely that some compiler optimisations would result in a over 50% reduzed memory usage
18:08 < ayecee> Lope: who's going to stop you?
18:08 < gmisuraca2> anyone know of a channel for uefi stuff?
18:09 < Lope> ayecee: well i tried starting lightdm and it fucked my F7 over
18:09 < ayecee> gmisuraca2: maybe ##hardware
18:09 < ayecee> Lope: mind the language please.
18:09 < tips-fedora> Lope: yes you can run two DEs. I'm running i3wm in tty1, emacs full screen in tty2, and twm with some system monitors in tty3
18:09 < Psi-Jack> mgolisch: Actually. It's very highly likely. O3 uses more memory, and yet can actually cause more problems than optimizations.
18:09 < gmisuraca2> ayecee: thank you will give it a shot
18:09 < ayecee> Lope: a dm is not the same as a de
18:09 < Psi-Jack> BRB.
18:10 < Lope> well when I started startx on F2, it was a gnome3 background, but i couldn't actually resize windows.
18:10 < Lope> I could right click the desktop and open a terminal, that's about it.
18:10 < truckcrash> ayecee, SuperSeriousCat, thank you for the suggestions. Those are both actually great tips. I have not logged .bash_history, but now I know for next time. I'll look into locking the account - is it a simple command you could share?
18:10 < tips-fedora> try to run startx with the direct path to an application. startx /bin/emacs works for me
18:10 < Lope> What do I need to do to get a functioning DE where I can resize windows etc on F2?
18:11 < Lope> tips-fedora: I did that already with xinit. `sudo xinit /usr/bin/x2goclient -- :1` but the resulting remote session window is TINY only 400x300 out of the 1920x1080 monitor available.
18:12 < tips-fedora> Lope: are you trying to run two instances of the desktop?
18:12 < jim> Lope, a dm is a relatively small program, what it does is paint a graphical background and present you with a way to log in
18:12 < Lope> tips-fedora: then I ran startx, then opened a terminal window. ran x2goclient, and again, the remote window was tiny.
18:12 < Lope> But if I run x2goclient from F7 where I've got mate (basically gnome2 fork) running, the remote window takes up a whole monitor, as it's supposed to.
18:13 < SuperSeriousCat> truckcrash, sorry, no command tricks :p But if you tail -f you see if funny businiess is installed. It dont see what it actually changed inside files tho
18:13 < Lope> tips-fedora: I've got my local desktop which is something I do work on, on F7. Now I want to run another local desktop on F2, who's sole purpose is to run x2goclient and show the remote x11forwarding DE on all 3 monitors.
18:14 < Lope> This is what I want: I press ctrl+alt+f7 and I want my local computer's 3 monitors. i press ctrl+alt+F2 and I get my 3 monitors of a remote environment
18:14 < Lope> I've gotten this working with JUST x11 forwarding. But it's too slow.
18:15 < Lope> Now I'm trying to make it work with x2goclient.
18:15 < tips-fedora> I don't know much about screen sharing tbh. I thought you just needed a program to run fullscreen without a desktop environment
18:17 < Lope> tips-fedora: well that would be a good start perhaps
18:19 < Lope> wow, I'm getting somewhere!!!
18:19 < Lope> `sudo xinit /usr/bin/mate-session -- :1` gives me a full mate-session where monitors are all positioned properly etc.
18:19 < Lope> And I can move/resize windows properly etc.
18:20 < tips-fedora> I just plugged in my external drive and it's full OEM programs for whackbook and winblows users. Should I zero it out before using it?
18:20 < Lope> Nice!! x2go client starts up and consumes the whole of monitor 1 with the remote session!
18:20 < Lope> Now I just need it to provide 3 monitors of remote session and I'm done!
18:22 < Lope> OMG i got it working. chose fullscreen and enabled xinerama extension!
18:24 < Lope> It's crazy fast!
18:24 < Lope> 3 monitors of goodness!
18:25 < tips-fedora> I'm a simple guy. One screen is good enough for me
18:25 < LarsN> do any of y'all know if it's possible to take a single x11 window, encode it and stream it as a live H.264 stream over http/https?
18:25 < LarsN> use case would be an application running on a VM, that I'd like to be able to view the display output of that window, as a web page.
18:27 < Lope> The only question is now how to I disable the x2goclient hotkeys
18:29 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm dang. My iPad keyboard is out of power. Heh
18:30 < SebologiC> hi!
18:31 < Psi-Jack> C!
18:31 < jim> hi
18:32 < Pentode> hihi!
18:32 < ayecee> ok byte!
18:32 < ayecee> bye!
18:32 < Psi-Jack> Sooo much hi c!
18:32 < ayecee> dammit.
18:32 < ayecee> apparently i type byte more often than bye
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Lol
18:33 < Pentode> stop byting so much
18:33 < Psi-Jack> Twss
18:33 < SebologiC> :)
18:36 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: it's also cool. When i close something it actually frees up memory too. :)
18:36 < Lope> bbl
18:39 < Dominian> Psi-Jack: nice
18:41 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: you've seen that before I'm sure, you closer something expecting a good chunk of memory back but then get pennies instead?
18:41 < Dominian> yep
18:45 < Psi-Jack> Dominian: do you know what most packages are complied with in suse per -O level?
18:45 < nobrain> any viable replacement for cups?
18:46 < bls> why would you want to replace cups?
18:46 < dengo> is it possible that the sh_flags field in an ELF section header can have different values from the specified ones from e.g. here: https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E23824_01/html/819-0690/chapter6-94076.html#scrolltoc ?
18:46 < nobrain> bls: because it sucks horse cocks
18:46 < Psi-Jack>  cups IS the replacement for all the crap that came before it...
18:47 < bls> it's possible to skip cups completely and just talk directly to a printer, but in a multi-job and/or multi-user scenario, it's not very pleasant
18:48 < nobrain> hmm i'll investigate about that
18:48 < bls> linuxprinting.org (or whatever its name of the year is) used to have instructions on doing it that I used
18:49 < nobrain> thanks, will check it
18:50 < Psi-Jack> What actually sucks about it, to you?
18:54 < Pentode> if i had a dollar for everything that sucked because the user can't get said thing to work ;p
18:55 < Psi-Jack> Heh
18:55 < Psi-Jack> Ikr
18:56 < sruli> with iptables, can i put source and destination ip in a iptables rule? "iptables -I FORWARD -i p4p4 -o ppp+ -s 192.168.1.15 ! -d xx.xx.xx.xx,xx.xx.xx.xx -j DROP" would this rule work to block all traffic from src excluding the dest ip? cant really find online...
18:56 < bls> everything should be easy, complexity of the underlying system be damned
18:56 < Psi-Jack> bls
18:57 < section1> sruli, yes
18:57 < Psi-Jack> bls: well in Solus... Everything is easy. Hehe.
18:57 < sruli> section1: thanks
18:58 < bls> it's got the big DWIM button you just click over and over until all your work is done? awesome!
19:01 < axum> I'm having a retarded moment. How do I stop git from adding '@github.com" to my username when I type it in
19:02 < bls> git shouldn't be doing that. are you using some sort of wrapper?
19:02 < nobrain> axum: git does not even have authentication?
19:03 < bls> or have you entered the wrong data into your .gitconfig?
19:04 < nobrain> bls: is openprinting the site you mentioned before?
19:04 < bls> nobrain: that's one of the names it uses
19:05 < nobrain> alright ty
19:05 < ase1590> so I'm pretty confused as to why git is suddenly acting strange
19:05 < lucidguy> Looking for recommendations on how you guys manage login/auths on linux servers, specifically nodes managed by our admin team.  Right now we use a combination of ssh keys and local accounts, which is a no no.  Were thinking ldap everything, no more direct root ssh key access.  More specifically FreeIPA.  Thoughts? This is for an environment with hundreds of servers and users.
19:06 < bls> lucidguy: sounds right
19:06 < lucidguy> bls: What sounds right?
19:06 < taylan> hi.  I'm using linux-libre, and trying to use a bluetooth dongle.  lsusb shows this: "ID 0a12:0001 Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Bluetooth Dongle (HCI mode)"  but the Bluetooth tab of GNOME settings shows nothing.  any ideas?
19:06 < bls> lucidguy: centralizing account control with LDAP
19:07 < ase1590> lucidguy, There is Netflix's solution: https://github.com/Netflix/bless
19:09 < Psi-Jack> bls: Yeah.. Sure.. Something like that...
19:09 < Psi-Jack> What's DWIM again? :)
19:10 < taylan> Do What I Mean?
19:11 < Psi-Jack> Ahh. heh
19:11 < Psi-Jack> Not quite /sooooo/ easy, but in general, as a desktop/workstation, it is incredibly simple.
19:12 < bls> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DWIM "DWIM (Do What I Mean) computer systems attempt to anticipate what users intend to do"
19:18 < justsomeguy> I want to add the password for my ssh private key to the kde keyring. How can I do that?
19:18 < justsomeguy> `ssh-agent` is running as part of the login process, but it doesn't seem to prompt me graphically for the password of my key, like the sshaskpass5 man page says it should.
19:19 < justsomeguy> *ksshaskpass5, rather
19:19 < bls> ssh-agent has to be told with program to use to collect passwords
19:19 < bls> which
19:20  * justsomeguy decides to read the ssh-agent manpage before asking any more potentially stupid questions.
19:21 < bls> some distros preconfigure all that for you, others want you to pick
19:22 < justsomeguy> It seems that openSUSE attempted to preconfigure it, but something isn't working.
19:22 < jim> justsomeguy, ssh-agent doesn't prompt, it kinda just sits there waiting to collect keys, and you give it keys by running ssh-add
19:25 < jfe> can more than one kernel audit client connect to the kernel simultaneously?
19:27 < bls> jim: he's talking about the prompt ssh-agent has when you've already added a key but it requires a password to use later
19:27 < bls> aka SSH_ASKPASS
19:27 < jim> years ago, the debian X maint decided to put an ssh-agent just under the X server, the effect of which was that when you ssh to a remote that had x clients and x client libs installed, you could run an x client program on the remote and it would display locally
19:28 < jim> bls, oh, I didn't know ssh-agent could do that
19:29 < justsomeguy> Actually, I just noticed that ssh-add isn't running. I thought it was started as part of my login session along with ssh-agent. I think I'm going to try adding it to kde's autostart directory, then re-login and see if I'm prompted.
19:29 < Sitri> ssh-add doesn't stay running
19:30 < jim> right, it just runs when you call it... still, that might work
19:30  * justsomeguy really needs to study up on ssh in general.
19:30 < Sitri> Do you have SSH_ASKPASS set to a GUI program?
19:31 < Sitri> It only needs to be set for the call to ssh-add
19:32 < justsomeguy> It's set to '/usr/lib/ssh/ssh-askpass' right now. Maybe it should be set to '/usr/lib/ssh/ksshaskpass' instead?
19:32 < Sitri> ssh-askpass is a terminal program, so yes.
19:33 < justsomeguy> Hmm... I guess I should put that in my '~/.profile', then.
19:33 < Sitri> I don't think that'll help
19:34 < justsomeguy> Well, back in a second.
19:34 < Sitri> You want to change the script in the autostart
19:34 < Sitri> SSH_ASKPASS=ksshaskpass ssh-add
19:34 < bls> does ssh-agent no longer expire keys and require refreshing the password?
19:36 < Sitri> bls: you have to tell it to do that
19:37 < bls> OK, guess I've just worked places that preconfigured it that way
19:37 < streuner> is 80 C temperature good for fully loaded processor?
19:37 < twainwek> how's mdadm pronounced?
19:38 < revel> streuner: Lower is better, and 80°C is not particularly low.
19:38 < Dominian> twainwek: depends on your level of frustration
19:38 < Sitri> streuner: it's a bit high, but not worryingly so
19:38 < bls> twainwek: I've always heard M-D-admin
19:38 < Sitri> IIRC 100C is when most CPUs start to thermal throttle.
19:38 < twainwek> that's what i figured
19:39 < streuner> and is 39 C temperature good for normal working processor?
19:39 < streuner> my processor is Intel Core i5 6300-HQ
19:39 < Sitri> Yes
19:39 < bls> but there are a lot of words I read but never say then end up in weird conversations where people pronounce them differently
19:40 < revel> Like SQL.
19:40 < codydh> Hello! Is it possible to use sed in a pipe (e.g., cat ... | sed -e '...' | nextprocess) to replace all instances of a given string with something else?
19:40 < bls> like volume as wahlyum or chroot as shrute
19:40 < revel> Sequel? S-Q-L? Squall?
19:40 < twainwek> sequel.
19:40 < bls> codydh: yes, that's the entire purpose of sed
19:40 < Sitri> Sequel is a dead language
19:40 < Sitri> It's replaced by SQL
19:40 < revel> I'll just say Squall to piss off both the S-Q-L and Sequel people.
19:41 < jim> codydh, yep
19:41 < jim> codydh, sed is "stream ed"
19:41 < twainwek> saying My-S-Q-L is way too much. My-sequel rolls off the tongue
19:41 < copart> I make it fun, I say S-Q-L when I refer to the language.... I say Sequal Server when talking about MS's version
19:41 < wizzi> Hi, I need a tutorial for selinux
19:42 < codydh> jim: Ok, I thought I could, but I'm doing it pretty simply and it's not working. So I wanted to make sure I wasn't barking up the wrong tree.
19:42 < MrElendig> codydh: don't need that cat btw
19:42 < codydh> MrElendig: Right, it's not actually a cat, I was simplifying for the example. But thanks :)
19:43 < jim> codydh, I'd compare the output before sed to the output after
19:43 < bls> codydh: then you probably have a problem in your s/// expression
19:43 < MrElendig> g can be useful
19:43 < codydh> bls, jim: Yes, I think that is the issue, and I might've got it already.
19:43 < codydh> Looks like I neglected the trailing /
19:43 < justsomeguy> wizzi: I like fedora/redhats documentation on selinux https://docs-old.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/22/html/SELinux_Users_and_Administrators_Guide/index.html
19:44 < bls> also note that most of the online regexp generators don't generate valid BRE or ERE syntax
19:44 < justsomeguy> wizzi: There is also the SELinux coloring book: https://github.com/mairin/selinux-coloring-book
19:44 < MrElendig> note: fc22 was *a long* time ago, things have changed since then
19:44 < jim> codydh, the / can really be anything, so you could... s!foo!bar!
19:44 < MrElendig> s is the best seperator
19:45 < streuner> processor was burdened by stress test
19:45 < MrElendig> ss\ss\s\ss
19:45 < wizzi> justsomeguy: great me too i'm using centos ...thank you
19:45 < justsomeguy> Ah, oops. I just picked the thrid link from my search engine. The RHEL7 docs are actually much nicer, but I wasn't sure if you need a redhat access login to get to it.
19:45 < bls> is s really better than \ ? :P
19:45 < codydh> Awesome, I think I got it. Final solution was sed 's/"answer":"accept"/"answer":"reject"/'
19:46 < codydh> Pretty simple, really.
19:46 < bls> are you using sed on json?
19:46 < codydh> bls: Yes >_<
19:46 < codydh> bls: Technically, JSONL.
19:46 < bls> heh, ok, as long as you feel some shame
19:46 < justsomeguy> lol
19:47 < codydh> bls: Oh, I feel shame about lots of this. Unfortunately it just fits well into this Frankenstein's monster workflow
19:48 < wizzi> justsomeguy: i don't have an access login x)
19:49 < justsomeguy> Damn. Well, the fedora documentation is pretty much the same, just switch to a newer version in the side panel on the left.
19:50 < justsomeguy> (I just like the fancy css theme and nicer formatting that the redhat docs have.)
19:51 < Sitri> codydh: if you need to do something more complicated, use jq
19:51 < wizzi> On fedora it's soo long
19:51 < codydh> Sitri: Great recommendation, thanks!
19:52 < bls> jq's is pretty awesome, just wish its syntax were more accessible
19:52 < justsomeguy> wizzi: There's also this: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/an-introduction-to-selinux-on-centos-7-part-1-basic-concepts
19:59  * justsomeguy feels like he became a poor mans google for a minute there.
20:03 < toothe> anyone know where the source for ifconfig(8) is?
20:04 < Sitri> toothe: http://net-tools.sourceforge.net/
20:05 < koala_man> toothe: man pages for such tools usually say which collection they're in at the very end of the man page, including ifconfig(8)
20:05 < koala_man> net-tools     2008-10-03    IFCONFIG(8)
20:06 < MrElendig> don't use ifconfig
20:06 < bls> but I want to parse its output!
20:06 < MrElendig> and don't use it as an example of how to do it yourself either
20:08 < Psi-Jack> toothe: Why ifconfig? That's old, obsoleted and broken.
20:08 < Sitri> What's broken about it?
20:08 < Sitri> Other than it using a slow way to get/manipulate the interfaces
20:09 < Psi-Jack> It uses old unreliable and deprecated ioctl calls. Does not support proper IP aliases. It will not exen show IP aliases.
20:10 < justsomeguy> This is a strange suggestion, I know, but I find that the output of `nmcli device show <interfac_name>` is much easier to parse. Especially since you can request different types of output.
20:11 < kerframil> ifconfig does show 'aliases' if they're labelled. the concept of alias interfaces remains nonsensical in any kernel from 2.6 onwards, of course.
20:12 < Psi-Jack> kerframil: those are the old deprecated ways to do aliases.
20:13 < kerframil> they're simply additional addresses, despite all the outmoded jargon. you can ip addr add with a label, and it will show up as an 'alias' under ifconfig. you shouldn't use the term alias at all.
20:13 < kerframil> they're just extra addresses, with or without labels.
20:13 < MrElendig> it shows them in an incorrect way
20:13 < kerframil> yes, I know
20:13 < MrElendig> (and doesn't show all of them)
20:14 < MrElendig> which makes it useless
20:14 < Psi-Jack> Bingo
20:14 < toothe> Psi-Jack: right. I don't get why they didn't just fix it.
20:14 < MrElendig> toothe: they did
20:14 < MrElendig> toothe: and it required rewriting from scratch
20:14 < MrElendig> it was *that* broken
20:14 < toothe> its broken on pop_os
20:14 < Psi-Jack> Heh yep
20:15 < kerframil> the point was, it does show labelled addresses, however sub-optimally
20:16 < Psi-Jack> And yet is still broken
20:16 < Psi-Jack> In even that.
20:16 < toothe> MrElendig: why not rewrite it from scratch, but have the interface be the same?
20:16 < toothe> so its invisible to the end-user?
20:16 < MrElendig> toothe: the interface was part of the problem with it
20:16 < MrElendig> way too limited
20:16 < DLange> ip is the systemd of network config tool. Newer, more advanced, everybody hates it.
20:17 < toothe> MrElendig: How?
20:17 < kerframil> toothe: because reasons. you'll never get a straight answer to that question.
20:17 < MrElendig> "it's not windows xp" syndrome
20:17 < toothe> DLange: I actually think ip is better.
20:17 < toothe> DLange: I just think its too late in Unix history.
20:17 < Psi-Jack> Linux isn't Unix.
20:17 < MrElendig> gnu is not unix
20:17 < MrElendig> *cough*
20:18 < kerframil> toothe: Roy Marples (openrc author) had an interesting in doing this, but I think he just got fed up with Linux and went back to BSD development in the end
20:18 < kerframil> interest*
20:18 < justsomeguy> For scripting I like nmcli since I can do things like `nmcli --get-values=GENERAL.STATE device show wlan0`, or ask for json output. There is also a python library. Of course not every system will have NetworkManager.
20:18 < MrElendig> ip has --json outout but it is currently quite limited
20:18  * justsomeguy feels bad that he's giving advice when he can't even set up ssh properly.
20:18 < MrElendig> output*
20:19 < justsomeguy> oooh, I didn't know that! I'll have to try it. :)
20:20 < MrElendig> only works for a and r
20:21  * justsomeguy just realized that he blabbed about his favorite tool without understanding the context of the discussion
20:21 < toothe> kerframil: With respect, I dont' get what the issue might be.
20:22 < Psi-Jack> MrElendig: It does? ip --json?
20:22 < toothe> kerframil: Linux has some problems under the hood, but it isn't some evil dead system..I run it on my desktop and we run it at work...and it runs, I dunno, the Internet?
20:22 < toothe> I love Linux.
20:22 < koala_man> MrElendig: damn, that's nice
20:23 < kerframil> toothe: ask him
20:24 < MrElendig> ip --json a | jq '..|select(.family == "inet" and .label == "wlp7s0")?|.local'
20:24 < Psi-Jack> Hmm.
20:24 < velix> Can I join two CSV files without sorting them?
20:24 < Psi-Jack> ip --json a hives me Option "-json" is unknown, try "ip -help".
20:24 < bls> velix: join how?
20:25 < MrElendig> velix: <file1 > file2
20:25 < velix> bls: on an equal key.
20:25 < MrElendig> asuming no headers
20:25 < velix> MrElendig: not concat ;)
20:25 < velix> MrElendig: both files have  the same key.
20:25 < MrElendig> depends on your defenition of "join"
20:25 < koala_man> Psi-Jack: ip --json addr
20:25 < bls> velix: yes, but you'd need to use a scripting language and read both files into memory
20:25 < velix> bls: ah okay, I'll go for PHP then
20:25 < MrElendig> velix: use python cvs or pandas module then
20:25 < Psi-Jack> koala_man: It's not liking the --json part itself at all.
20:26 < MrElendig> velix: bonus point: convert to something saner than cvs
20:26 < velix> MrElendig: it's a one-time shot. I could even do it with LibreOffice's Calc ;D
20:26 < MrElendig> Psi-Jack: ancient iproute2 version?
20:26 < Psi-Jack> 4.9.0
20:26 < koala_man> I'm on 4.16.0-4
20:27 < MrElendig> 4.9 is really old indeed
20:27 < MrElendig> 0.4.9*
20:27 < Dovid> I have a quesiton based on this: https://serverfault.com/questions/633303/does-setting-mtu-on-logical-interfaces-affect-physical-interfaces
20:27 < MrElendig> oh nm no 0.
20:27 < Dovid> do I need to change the mtu on bond0 or just bond0.1 bond.0.2 etc?
20:27 < revel> 4.9.0 is old, the 4.9 series is, however, going to get patched for a long time.
20:28 < jim> Psi-Jack, the new stuff has json output for pretty much everything (pipe it to jq and stuff)
20:28 < revel> Like, for at least 10-20 more years, I think.
20:28 < velix> MrElendig: Pandas looks great.
20:28 < Psi-Jack> 4.8.0 is only 18 months. I wouldn't classify that as /really/ old.
20:29 < revel> Wait, what? I might've been misinformed.
20:29 < Psi-Jack> 4.9.0 even
20:30 < revel> Oh, that was 4.4, and it's until 2036
20:40 < toothe> wait...
20:40 < toothe> this is the set of net-tools? https://github.com/giftnuss/net-tools
20:40 < toothe> this repository is 8 years old.
20:41 < jim> I think that's the older ifconfig and route
20:41 < MrElendig> that is not the current upstream
20:41 < toothe> phew...
20:41 < MrElendig> http://net-tools.sourceforge.net/
20:42 < MrElendig> some distroes have forked it and maintains it downstream now
20:42 < MrElendig> *coughdebiancough*
20:42 < toothe> heh, where do I download the source itself? :/
20:42 < kerframil> as there are no recent release tarballs, your best bet is to check out the sources directly
20:42 < MrElendig> sourceforge or whatever system your distro has for getting sources
20:42 < toothe> ahh, ofound it.
20:42 < jim> toothe, to which version?
20:42 < MrElendig> why do you want the sources anyway?
20:43 < toothe> I enjoy reading code.
20:43 < toothe> I want to see how it works.
20:43 < toothe> and how closely coupled the kernel and tool is.
20:43 < MrElendig> toothe: better to read the source of ip
20:43 < MrElendig> since it uses a interface that isn't deprecated
20:48 < WhiteDevil> anyone know of a good linux game ?
20:48 < MrElendig> df
20:48 < WhiteDevil> maybe like space craft sort of
20:48 < MrElendig> x series
20:48 < WhiteDevil> is it on linux ?
20:48 < Psi-Jack> xbill
20:48 < tips-fedora> I like brogue and bastet. They're terminal games but they are fun
20:48 < triceratux> neverball
20:49 < toothe> THis is 1000 lines. I feel like this entire re-write should be easy.
20:49 < MrElendig> a few of the games in the X serie runs on linux, yes
20:49 < MrElendig> also, prepare your wallet, the steam summer sale has started
20:49 < WhiteDevil> let me check steam
20:49 < no_gravity> Hello! How do I know if my CPUs are running at full speed or if the lowered the clockrate because they are getting to hot?
20:50 < WhiteDevil> do you think you need a powerfull GPU to play steam games ?
20:50 < WhiteDevil> i am not concern about drm anyways
20:50 < WhiteDevil> i dont have anything important on this system
20:50 < MrElendig> "steam games" are anything from pure text adventures to the most heavy vr game ever made
20:50 < WhiteDevil> but when i do progress i might quite using drm
20:50 < MrElendig> steam is just a delivery platform
20:50 < WhiteDevil> yea
20:50 < MrElendig> content delivery*
20:50 < FightingFalcon> is it necessary to install unbound dns server?
20:50 < WhiteDevil> well ill give it a try ..i have a few bucks to spare
20:50 < MrElendig> https://store.steampowered.com/linux
20:50 < tips-fedora> "Steam Games" are literally just games but instead of downloading binaries from sketchy sites you get them all in one place
20:51 < MrElendig> FightingFalcon: no
20:51 < FightingFalcon> MrElendig, i host 3 websites in my server. Still not necessary?
20:52 < MrElendig> FightingFalcon: correct
20:52 < MrElendig> FightingFalcon: unless you really know what you are doing, don't run a public facing dns
20:52 < WhiteDevil> how do you isntall a deb file ?
20:52 < FightingFalcon> ok, how about NTP? Do i need it?
20:53 < MrElendig> FightingFalcon: you want a ntp client, probably not a ntp server
20:53 < MrElendig> WhiteDevil: which distro?
20:53 < WhiteDevil> debian
20:53 < MrElendig> man apt
20:53 < MrElendig> man dpkg
20:53 < MrElendig> tip: don't download .deb from random sites, use the debian repos
20:54 < WhiteDevil> i downloaded steam
20:54 < FightingFalcon> cat/proc/cpuinfo returns model name      : Intel Xeon Processor (Skylake, IBRS)
20:54 < MrElendig> you want to read the debian wiki page
20:55 < FightingFalcon> how do i know the exact model?
20:55 < MrElendig> on steam
20:55 < phogg> WhiteDevil: the version of steam in the Debian repo should work and self upgrade to the latest.
20:55 < MrElendig> FightingFalcon: lscpu
20:55 < MrElendig> FightingFalcon: dmidecode
20:55 < MrElendig> WhiteDevil: https://wiki.debian.org/Steam#A64-bit_systems_.28amd64.29
20:56 < FightingFalcon> MrElendig, still the same. But this is a cloud server. is this why?
20:56 < Psi-Jack> heh "cloud" server. :p
20:56 < phogg> no_gravity: use the command: cpufreq-info
20:57 < Psi-Jack> FightingFalcon: Physical hardware or virtual machine? There is no such thing as a "cloud" server.
20:57 < no_gravity> phogg: hardware limits: 1.60 GHz - 3.90 GHz
20:57 < FightingFalcon> Psi-Jack, i have no idea. its a Hetzner server
20:57 < phogg> there is no such thing as "the cloud" at all
20:57 < TRS-80> "cloud" kek
20:57 < no_gravity> phogg: current CPU frequency is 1.60 GHz (asserted by call to hardware).
20:57 < MrElendig> FightingFalcon: vps?
20:57 < no_gravity> phogg: Sounds like its throttled?
20:57 < TRS-80> aka "someone else's computer"
20:58 < phogg> no_gravity: yes it does
20:58 < FightingFalcon> MrElendig, yes vps
20:58 < Psi-Jack> So, virtual machine.
20:58 < no_gravity> phogg: Any ideas why? Maybe it makes 2 virtual CPUs from 1 real one or something?
20:58 < phogg> no_gravity: I can't begin to guess without at least seeing the full output. It's probably just following the policy you or your distribution set.
20:59 < no_gravity> phogg: current policy: frequency should be within 1.60 GHz and 3.90 GHz.
21:00 < no_gravity> phogg: The governor "powersave" may decide which speed to use
21:00 < no_gravity> phogg: within this range.
21:00 < phogg> no_gravity: use a pastebin, don't keep pasting individual lines
21:00 < MrElendig> if you use powersave it is not going to clock up fast
21:01 < phogg> no_gravity: and so there you have it: the powersave governor has clocked your CPU down to... save power. Someone told it that was what it should do. If you suddenly start using a lot of CPU it will likely clock it back up to satisfy demand.
21:01 < MrElendig> it is really conservative when it comes to clocking up
21:01 < no_gravity> phogg: Even when I run heavy load, it stays at 1.6GHz.
21:01 < WhiteDevil> okay i got steam working on this system
21:01 < phogg> no_gravity: powersave is very conservative
21:01 < WhiteDevil> any recommended games on steam for linux ?
21:01 < MrElendig> on old kernels it will never clock up
21:01 < phogg> no_gravity: if it's not doing what you want you should use a different governor
21:01 < MrElendig> WhiteDevil: stardew
21:01 < WhiteDevil> i bet the games for linux are faster
21:02 < kerframil> no_gravity: which CPU is tihs?
21:02 < WhiteDevil> and require less gpu ?
21:02 < phogg> WhiteDevil: Depends on what kind of game you like to play.
21:02 < WhiteDevil> will look into stardew
21:02 < WhiteDevil> shooter
21:02 < no_gravity> kerframil: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz
21:02 < WhiteDevil> space fighting
21:02 < WhiteDevil> a nice artistically done mytery game is also good
21:02 < kerframil> no_gravity: you should set the governor to performance and use the intel_pstate driver instead
21:02 < phogg> WhiteDevil: No. They're about the same. I love Stardew Valley, but it's a farm sim RPG. I also like Antichamber, which is a good immersive puzzle game.
21:02 < no_gravity> kerframil: How do I do that?
21:03 < MrElendig> WhiteDevil: VA-11 Hall-A
21:03 < kerframil> no_gravity: well, let's see if the pstate driver is loaded or available first
21:03 < MrElendig> damn steam is slow right now
21:03 < kerframil> no_gravity: do you have a /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate directory?
21:03 < MrElendig> the summer sale curse  :p
21:04 < MrElendig> WhiteDevil: hallowed kight
21:04 < MrElendig> knight*
21:04 < phogg> WhiteDevil: for shooters there are not a large number of recent choices. You might try STRAFE, also there's Borderlands 2.
21:04 < MrElendig> WhiteDevil: divinity:os and divinity 2
21:04 < no_gravity> phogg: https://pastebin.com/raw/thHaE7Yf
21:05 < no_gravity> kerframil: Yup
21:05 < phogg> WhiteDevil: you might also want to /join #gamingonlinux where this is a bit more topical
21:05 < MrElendig> divinity:os on sale now is an epic deal
21:05 < kerframil> no_gravity: and, within that directory, does `cat state` print active?
21:06 < kerframil> no_gravity: cat status, rather
21:06 < no_gravity> kerframil: There is no file called status in there.
21:07 < kerframil> no_gravity: that wasn't what I had expected. in that case, can - from that directory - pastebin the output of: grep . *
21:09 < no_gravity> kerframil: https://pastebin.com/raw/je6Ck2v6
21:09 < kerframil> no_gravity: alright. do you have the cpupower command available?
21:10 < no_gravity> kerframil: No
21:10 < kerframil> no_gravity: what's the distro?
21:10 < no_gravity> kerframil: Mint
21:11 < phogg> Debian distributes it in linux-cpupower but I don't see a similar package in Ubuntu repos
21:11 < kerframil> hmm
21:12 < kerframil> it might be linux-tools-common
21:12 < kerframil> try that, nogravity
21:12 < no_gravity> kerframil: What?
21:12 < kerframil> the package
21:12 < phogg> yep, that's where it is
21:13 < no_gravity> WARNING: cpupower not found for kernel 4.4.0-128
21:13 < no_gravity> Are you guys sure it's not because of temperature?
21:13 < MrElendig> ancient kernel is ancient
21:13 < no_gravity> Maybe the CPU just refuses to run a higher frequency?
21:13 < kerframil> a brief search suggests that it's also necessary to install linux-tools-common-4.4.0-128 (that is, appending the kernel version as a suffix)
21:13 < MrElendig> it is not a problem with the cpu
21:14 < phogg> no_gravity: unlikely. If you tell it to try it will try until it triggers a reboot to save itself.
21:14 < kerframil> no, no_gravity, that is not the issue
21:14 < no_gravity> Ok
21:14 < kerframil> the issue is that you shouldn't throttle with a governor at all and just let intel_pstate do it sjob
21:14 < kerframil> so the goal is to change the governor to performance
21:15 < phogg> one should at least do that
21:15 < kerframil> for older CPUs, using the P-state driver and a governor can make sense. not for modern Intel CPUs, though.
21:15 < phogg> kerframil: Oh? What changed?
21:15 < no_gravity> There is a thingy for the Mint panel that can switch the governor to performance.
21:15 < phogg> did intel's power saving kick actually result in reasonable driver behavior?
21:16 < kerframil> phogg: hang on - let me dig out a link
21:16 < phogg> no_gravity: Use that, then. You can also use the cpufreq-set command on the command line.
21:17 < kerframil> indeed, use whatever tool works. but you might need to figure out a way to make this happen upon each boot.
21:17 < no_gravity> Hmm... still 1.6GHz.
21:17 < kerframil> 1) confirm that the governor has changed 2) generate some load
21:17 < phogg> no_gravity: cause the CPU to hit 100%
21:17 < no_gravity> The widget also shows '1.60'
21:17 < no_gravity> phogg: I did of course.
21:17 < no_gravity> Two CPUs running at 100% now.
21:17 < no_gravity> But still 1.6GHz.
21:19 < kerframil> phogg: https://plus.google.com/+TheodoreTso/posts/2vEekAsG2QT
21:20 < MrElendig> check scaling_governor
21:20 < kerframil> phogg: in a nutshell, the cpufreq framework isn't equipped for the sophisticated power management techniques that can be leveraged with new Intel CPUs. using a governor can just result in unnecesary wakeups. one can set performance and the intel_pstate driver will still do its job.
21:20 < no_gravity> MrElendig: me?
21:20 < MrElendig> yes
21:20 < no_gravity> MrElendig: How?
21:21 < no_gravity> Strange that cpufreq-info still talks about 'The governor "powersave"'. Shouldnt it now talk about performance?
21:21 < phogg> kerframil: interesting
21:21 < kerframil> no_gravity: yes, it should. the utility you used may just be crap or missing a requirement.
21:22 < phogg> no_gravity: whatever you tried doing didn't actually work
21:22 < no_gravity> kerframil: Its the same when I do "cpufreq-set -g performance"
21:22 < phogg> no_gravity: use the command line tool (as root)
21:22 < kerframil> let's try this a different way
21:22 < kerframil> and yes, you definitely need to be root
21:22 < no_gravity> phogg: I tried that too. Same result.
21:22 < MrElendig> find /sys -name "*scaling_governor*" -exec cat {} +
21:22 < phogg> time to start fiddling with files in /sys?
21:22 < kerframil> yes, sysfs
21:22 < MrElendig> er.. don't need the *'s
21:23 < no_gravity> MrElendig: Finds nothing.
21:23 < no_gravity> Oh, it does.
21:23 < MrElendig> uhm it should, unless someone hardcoded in the govenor in the kernel
21:23 < no_gravity> /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0/scaling_governor
21:23 < no_gravity> And 7 more.
21:23 < phogg> more like while IFS= read -r f ; do printf '%s: %s\n' "$f" "$(cat "$f")" ; done < <(find /sys -name "*scaling_governor*" ) so you know what you found
21:23 < MrElendig> no_gravity: run that full command
21:24 < no_gravity> MrElendig: Outputs powersave 8 times.
21:24 < MrElendig> so you are still on powersave and that is why it doesn't clock up
21:24 < no_gravity> I wonder why it does not change it.
21:24 < phogg> no_gravity: echoi performance > /sys/whatever/scaling_governor
21:24 < phogg> er, echo not echoi
21:25 < kerframil> no_gravity: echo performance | tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy*/scaling_governor
21:25 < phogg> and then cat them again
21:25 < Dagmar> The good news is that the defaults almost always do the right thing
21:25 < no_gravity> All set to performance now.
21:25 < kerframil> excellent
21:25 < phogg> now spike the CPU again
21:26 < phogg> the lesson here is that front-end tools are terrible and the shell is everything
21:26 < no_gravity> All CPUs still at 1.6GHz :/
21:26 < Dagmar> Compile something with make -j
21:26 < Dagmar> They'll spin up
21:26 < phogg> no_gravity: check the governor again, make sure it was not set back
21:26 < no_gravity> Dagmar: I constantly run 2 CPUs at 100%.
21:26 < no_gravity> phogg: All still set to performance.
21:26 < phogg> hmm, weird
21:28 < Dagmar> Something's borked
21:28 < kerframil> definitely
21:28 < Dagmar> Both performance and powersafe will spin up the CPU when the cores are under load
21:28 < phogg> powersave *may*, but it seems to have funny ideas about how much load for how long warrants a frequency change upwards
21:28 < kerframil> maybe it's time to upgrade. that kernel is fairly old with respect to the timeline for intel_pstate developments.
21:28 < kerframil> notwithstanding any backports
21:29 < no_gravity> I think I will reboot and see if there is anything in the bios.
21:29 < kerframil> the range of CPUs covered was extended after its formal introduction to the vanilla kernel too
21:30 < kerframil> I really don't think tinkering with the BIOS is going to help
21:30 < kerframil> I mean, some boards allow for more or less policy to be controlled in firmware. but my experience has been that you either have intel_pstate functional or you don't.
21:30 < Dagmar> Well, I'd check the motherboard manuf's site to see if there's a BIOS update
21:30 < kerframil> yes, that's a good point
21:31 < Dagmar> There *is* the possibility that the CPU is a newer variant the motherboard didn't quite understand at first
21:31 < Dagmar> 'cuz yeah, intel_pstate generally "just works"
21:31 < phogg> motherboard firmware should be assumed to be hopelessly out of date until proven otherwise
21:31 < kerframil> right. and if that doesn't help, do consider an upgrade. 4.4 is really old as a baseline.
21:32 < no_gravity> I have a theory!
21:32 < no_gravity> Maybe it's Intel that pushed a new microcode to prevent hammer attacks?
21:32 < phogg> No, and also no.
21:32 < kerframil> ... no
21:33 < Dagmar> Highly unlikely
21:33 < Dagmar> Also, you'd have noticed if you were pushing a microcode update
21:33 < phogg> Firstly prevention is hard. Secondly they can't push out an update.
21:34 < hexnewbie> Remotely pushing microcode to prevent hammer attacks? Not row hammer, but hammer attacks? Does that help against axe attacks too?
21:34 < no_gravity> I'm pretty sure this machine was twice as fast some time ago.
21:34 < no_gravity> That's how I noticed it in the first place.
21:34 < Dagmar> Buy one of those old Gateway full-towers from the late 90's
21:34 < Dagmar> They were made IBM-style out of recycled Sherman tanks
21:34 < MrElendig> buy a super-dell machone
21:34 < MrElendig> machine*
21:35 < no_gravity> Let me reboot.
21:35 < Dagmar> No joke, had a machine come into the shop where someone had caught their wife cheating over IMs.
21:35 < no_gravity> One moment...
21:35 < Dagmar> DUde had taken a bat to the machine
21:35 < Psi-Jack> Why not the machone?
21:35 < Dagmar> I had to replace the power switch, and just re-seat the optical and floppy drive
21:35 < kerframil> well, microcode updates can be applied from the initramfs, which is under your distro's control. but that's neither here nor there. if intel_pstate isn't working as designed, and you're throttled - you have a problem.
21:35 < Dagmar> Slightly unbend one side panel
21:36 < Dagmar> He'd hit it at least five times becuase you could see the scuffs in the plastic
21:36 < Dagmar> Barely phased the case
21:36 < phogg> Dagmar: ahh for the days when computers were built like tanks
21:36 < Dagmar> Secure against axe and possibly even shotgun attacks
21:36 < hexnewbie> Mozilla causing an OOM/stall? You kick the case with as much might as you have. Somehow, the only aftermath is a damaged case and the internal modem is outside of the box.
21:43 < no_gravity> re
21:44 < no_gravity> I did not find a way to up the frequency :/
21:44 < royal_screwup21> what's a good c++ IDE for linux? I'm looking at CLION, simply because it's by intellij and I like their other products, but I'm wondering if there are better alternatives :)
21:46 < kerframil> no_gravity: if you were expecting to find a "don't gimp my CPU frequency" option in the firmware, disappointment was fairly inevitable
21:46 < zenix_2k2> one question,. is there anyhow i can check whether a command exists or not ?
21:46 < revel> `type`, `which`
21:48 < no_gravity> kerframil: I think it's a hardware issue.
21:48 < zenix_2k2> ok thk
21:48 < Psi-Jack> zenix_2k2: "thk?" Please standard Engrish.
21:48 < no_gravity> rebooting again...
21:50 < Siecje> How do you capture part of a regex using grep? I'm trying to get the pid from this line https://dpaste.de/E3Ry
21:51 < bls> grep doesn't do captures, just matches
21:51 < kerframil> that's a horrible way to get the pid anyway
21:52 < bls> yeah, pgrep if you're trying to script this
21:52 < revel> Just `awk '{print $4}' would probably be enough anyway.
21:52 < hexnewbie> Siecje: What do you need the PID for?
21:52 < revel> Or yeah, pgrep.
21:53 < Siecje> bks: I don't anything to lookup by with pgrep
21:53 < Siecje> revel: I don't have awk
21:54 < hexnewbie> PostgreSQL keeps a PID file. That said, needing PostgreSQL PID is unusual
21:54 < Siecje> hexnewbie: I am replacing a script that used to launch a process and write the pid to /var/run/ I am using supervisord and that comes from supervisord status output.
21:54 < Siecje> hexnewbie: I should not have used postgres. The pid I need is not for postgres.
21:54 < justsomeguy> Siecje:   You can use [[ input =~ regexp ]], and get the content of parenthesized sub expressions from different elements the BASH_REMATCH environment variable, which is an array. You should ask on #bash.
21:55 < hexnewbie> Siecje: And it's not the PID of the child you directly launched (e.g. it forks again)?
21:55 < Siecje> hexnewbie: Old code used to Popen, now I'm just doing supervisord start $myprogram
21:56 < hexnewbie> Siecje: pgrep may be the best you can hope for. Besides, it can filter by parent PID if that's possible in your case to rule out false positives
21:56 < domhnall> anyone able to test if google.com loads in browser please? need to confirm if it's just me or something else. ICMP and traceroute both succeed so idk whats up.
21:56 < justsomeguy> ....google works, dude.
21:56 < domhnall> justsomeguy: yeah, i know that
21:57 < justsomeguy> domhnall: It's probably a DNS issue. Have you tried restarting nscd?
21:58  * justsomeguy realizes he was being snarky, shuts up, and decides to let people who actually know what they're talking about help instead.
21:58 < justsomeguy> Sorry about the attitude, domhnall
21:59 < domhnall> no worries, I dont think it's DNS though, duckduckgo works fine.
22:00 < domhnall> ah, there it goes.
22:05 < macwinner> when I do rm -r node_modules on a specific server, it seems to take a lot longer than on other servers.. does this hint at a hard drive issue?
22:06 < Sitri> macwinner: do a smartctl
22:07 < Sitri> It could simply be bad fragmentation, more files than the other servers or a whole host of other root causes.
22:08 < Dagmar> ...or that you've got a different type of hard drive in that node
22:10 < Sitri> Or that host is doing other things
22:11 < fresheyeball> hey out there. I am trapped in some kind of decoding hell, and dont know where else to turn
22:11 < fresheyeball> any advice on where I can go to ask questions about zlib?
22:12 < ExtremeFMan> hi, is it a programming problem?
22:12 < ExtremeFMan> or using some program?
22:13 < justsomeguy> Also what language, and what are you trying to do with zlib, and in what environment
22:13 < jim> fresheyeball, one thing, there is a bot, alis, that can assist you in finding channels on the freenode irc net. To get started, /msg alis help
22:14 < fresheyeball> justsomeguy: I am in Haskell, and decoding from an http response
22:15 < azarus> struggling a bit with qemu internal networking. I'm trying to get two guests to talk to each other, one guest has the IP 172.16.1.1, the other 172.16.1.2. They're both on the same bridge on the host (br0).
22:15 < justsomeguy> fresheyeball:   Ah. You will probably get the best responses in the #haskell channel, then.
22:15 < azarus> Packets seem to be dropped.
22:15 < ExtremeFMan> yes, and sometimes there are Haskell ppl also on ##programming
22:15 < azarus> My qemu script: http://ix.io/1egi
22:15 < azarus> my host network situtation: http://ix.io/1egj
22:16 < azarus> the guests can access the internet through usermode networking just fine, but they can't connect to each other
22:18 < azarus> ip a && route from guest1: http://ix.io/1egn
22:19 < azarus> ip a && route from guest2: http://ix.io/1ego
22:20 < azarus> ... could it be identical mac addresses messing everything up? :o
22:21 < justsomeguy> That would be a problem.
22:21 < azarus> i'll set them manually
22:23 < azarus> didn't fix it yet ;/
22:23 < azarus> my new script with manual mac addresses: http://ix.io/1egp
22:26 < justsomeguy> So, the bridge is connected to a router on 10.0.2.2, right?
22:28 < justsomeguy> Or do you have a static route set up between them?
22:28 < azarus> justsomeguy: no, 10.0.2.2 is usermode
22:28 < azarus> it's for internet access
22:29 < justsomeguy> ah
22:29 < azarus> any more info i can provide?
22:30 < azarus> (that would be useful)
22:32 < Psi-Jack> azarus: What is your bank account number, SSN, first last name, DOB, etc.. Everything. ;) (do not answer!)
22:34  * justsomeguy is thinking/guessing that azarus just needs to set up a static route on each guest to point to each other
22:34 < Psi-Jack> Or setup a complex network infrastructure involving openvswitch.
22:34 < azarus> fixed it!
22:34 < azarus> br0 was down
22:34 < azarus> justsomeguy: static routes were already established ;)
22:35 < Psi-Jack> Definitely openvswitch though would be a good thing.
22:35 < azarus> pfft
22:35 < justsomeguy> Glad you figured it out :)
22:35 < Psi-Jack> But, that bank account number.... Would be very useful (to meeeee!) ;)
22:36 < azarus> Psi-Jack: well, without the pin, the worst thing you could to was give me money ;)
22:36 < azarus> was to*
22:36 < Psi-Jack> That's why all the other details. And everything. :)
22:37 < Hyouchuu> Hallo o/
22:58 < Hyouchuu> Hey guys
22:58 < Hyouchuu> Guess my ping
22:58 < lnnb> 47
22:58 < Hyouchuu> Nope
22:59 < Hyouchuu> 280
22:59 < Hyouchuu> Im pretty sure I'm in the middle of the atlantic rn
23:01 < lnnb> why is it so high?
23:02 < ayecee> it's a long walk to the nearest satellite
23:02 < lnnb> must be over the horizon
23:03 < ayecee> nah. geostationary orbit is farther than you'd think.
23:04 < JeffATL> ayecee: heh
23:09 < Hyouchuu> I'm going to walk to the nearest satelite and give them a piece of my mind
23:10 < lnnb> can you hold your breath for 35,000 kilometryes
23:10 < ayecee> depends how fast i'm going
23:12 < Hyouchuu> Yeah, I've set up Arch from scratch before
23:17 < phinxy> What modules can be loaded with modprobe and which ones has to be built-in to the kernel?
23:17 < ayecee> wat
23:18 < TRS-80> just let systemd do everything
23:18 < dgurney> any modules can be loaded with modprobe, what sort of a question is that?
23:19 < phinxy> Are all options in kernel/.config modules?
23:19 < ayecee> no
23:19 < lnnb> in the kernel menuconfig there are some options that cannot be set to module
23:21 < bls> there are a series of data/documentation files in the kernel used to build up those menus, establish dependencies, mark something as experimental, and relevant to what you're asking, list the choices of must be compiled in, can be compiled in, can be a module, etc
23:21 < bls> or the kernel source more specifically
23:24 < ardzoht> hi
23:24 < lnnb> eg, acpi dock, not sure how that gets handled,   anything in [] cannot be a module?
23:25 < lnnb> i don't think Kconfig file sets that?
23:27 < bls> yes it does https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/tree/drivers/acpi/Kconfig?h=v4.17.2#n233
23:28 < bls> bool mean yes or no (i.e. compiled in or not), tristate means it can be a module
23:29 < lnnb> oooo
23:41 < n-iCe> hi
23:45 < syb0rg> hey guys, I want to automate backups of a directory that may or not be written to during the time backups are scheduled. How can I do this safely? I.e., avoid corrupted backup data from files being altered as I am backing them up
23:49 < Dagmar> Schedule the backups at a different time, or set up an LVM snapshot for when they are not being written to and back things up from there
23:50 < Dagmar> There will be _no_ safely backing up files that may change while they are being backed up
23:50 < syb0rg> that's what I was afraid of, Dagmar
23:50 < bls> which is why you either stage outages for your backups, or you automate them to run often enough that it's not an issue
23:50 < syb0rg> the only solution I can think of is to constantly sync the entire directory to another local copy, and disable syncing before doing backup on said copy
23:51 < syb0rg> but that is very inelegant
23:52 < lnnb> can all the programs that write to ths directory be modified to have a virtual open/close  function you can lock access with?
23:53 < syb0rg> hmm, interesting thought lnnb
23:54 < domhnall> looks like i3 will be replacing lxde for me.
23:54 < syb0rg> what I might actually do is temporarily suspend all VMs before backing up, since they are the main concern and I don't need perfect uptime from them
23:54 < syb0rg> thanks for the input guys
23:55 < Dagmar> LVM snapshots.  This is not as big of a problem as you are creating for yourselg
23:55 < syb0rg> Ok Dagmar, I will look into that and see if it would do the trick.
23:57 < Isky> "Hey, we're having a problem with this cobol app" is not something I want to hear, ever.
23:58 < lnnb> what's the paycheck look like though?
23:58 < Isky> I'm not even sure were to start. If I'm at CLI in any directory that's not an NFS mount, it works. On one that's a mounted NFS share, it doesn't.
23:59 < Isky> lnnb: sadly, not anything more than my regular sr. linux admin pay. :P
23:59 < Isky> and it doesn't error.. even with strace, I get nothing useful. It just hangs.
23:59 < lnnb> i'll mark you down for somewhere between $0 and $infinity then
--- Log closed Fri Jun 22 00:00:08 2018