--- Log opened Thu Jun 28 00:00:16 2018
00:01 < revel> Nothing if you try it on Linux, afaik, and what you'd expect it to do on Windows. Though that's off-topic.
00:01 < lnnb> why is it off topic?
00:01 < revel> Because this is ##linux, not ##windows or a channel for discussing GDB.
00:02 < lnnb> he said wine, not windows
00:02 < kristina> PE/COFF isn't really off-topic.
00:03 < revel> Right... Well, idk about using GDB under wine.
00:03 < SmashingX> is it important for a server to have swap?
00:03 < SmashingX> even though it might not need it?
00:03 < kristina> it depends on the debug info style, gdb can't parse pdb stuff, lldb can.
00:03 < SmashingX> I have a server with about 14GB of RAM, I don’t need swap right?
00:04 < SmashingX> but I noticed that the server is not working right
00:04 < kristina> but if it's dwarf based then gdb can probably work with pe/coff just fine.
00:04 < SmashingX> I’m not sure if swap has to do with this
00:04 < infinisil> SmashingX: Nope
00:04 < SmashingX> I executed less
00:04 < SmashingX> and it’s taking 100% CPU
00:04 < SmashingX> and it just got stuck
00:09 < Henry151> ok ##linux
00:09 < Henry151> this one might be fun
00:10 < Henry151> so i'm running debian and using i3 wm, and when I want to plug in my TV as an extra monitor, I plug in the HDMI cable, then from a terminal, I run "xrandr --output eDP-1 --auto --output DP-2 --auto --left-of eDP-1"
00:11 < jim> what is it you wanted to do with the xrandr?
00:11 < Henry151> it works great. When I'm done, I run xrandr --output eDP-1 --auto --output DP-2 --off
00:11 < de-facto> I'd like to understand lnx behaviour/rationale: Assume I got two physical network interfaces, say eth0 (with dhcp client in a network) and eth1 (static ip from same subnet, but just for a local device). It seems the host answers ARP requests on eth0 for the static IP of eth1. That causes of course confusion in the network of eth0. For what scenario is that "ARP flux" useful and how can I avoid it?
00:11 < Henry151> it works great
00:12 < Henry151> but I want to automate it so that when i plug in the hdmi cable, it will right away run that command, and when i unplug it, it will run the other.
00:13 < Henry151> my first thought was to watch dmesg while I plug in the hdmi cable, but I was surprised that nothing pops up (unlike if I plug in anything with a USB cable, for example)
00:14 < Henry151> this makes me think that the operating system is not really "watching" the HDMI port, until something explicitly tells it to
00:14 < jim> so you want it to identify that the monitor you've plugged in is that specific one, and when it identifies that particular monitor, it runs the xrandr command?
00:15 < Henry151> jim: not needing even that much; if I could have it run that command whenever an HDMI cable is plugged in at all, that would be fine with me, since this is the only thing I plug in to that port in normal circumstances
00:15 < Henry151> if I ever want to plug something else in there, I can always deal with that situation at that time, that's fine with me
00:16 < jim> ok, and I don't know how to do those things, I was just curious.... maybe someone who does understand those things better will step up
00:16 < Henry151> what surprised me is that I don't see anything happen in dmesg when i plug in the cable; even when it's plugged in to the TV on the other end, and the tv is set to that hdmi input... somehow i thought it would detect it like it does if say, I plug my phone in to the usb port
00:16 < Henry151> thanks jim just the same :)
00:16 < jim> welcome
00:17 < Henry151> i'm also only tackling this project out of an interest in learning more about linux, since my manual method does the trick for actual usage
00:19 < phogg> Henry151: in principle the way you know when a monitor is plugged in is that a udev event will fire
00:19 < Henry151> so what I really am hoping for, in here, is somebody to go "so here's how it works" and explain to me why the HDMI isn't seen by dmesg, how these things are handled in linux when done properly, and what commands I've got to run/files I've got to edit/etc to make it all work :0) but I'd be happy with even just a pointer in the right direction, any information about HDMI ports and linux, any info about how
00:19 < Henry151> to "watch" an HDMI port, or ... and my line of thought was interrupted by some guidance! :)
00:19 < Henry151> phogg: thanks for information
00:20 < phogg> Henry151: I don't know what that looks like in practice, but when an event fires you can write a udev rule that executes a script. That script will have to gain access to the X server (switching from root to your user, maybe), set DISPLAY appropriately and can then run xrandr just like you do manually.
00:20 < Henry151> a udev event... i will google it, but is there an easy way to watch those?
00:20 < Henry151> awesome outline
00:20 < Henry151> thank you again
00:20 < Tech_8> hi
00:20 < phogg> henry151: udevadm monitor
00:21 < phogg> Henry: run: 'udevadm monitor' as root. Unplug your display. You ought to see something.
00:21 < Henry151> even as regular user it seems to work
00:21 < Henry151> I do see things :)
00:22 < phogg> Henry151: whether you get an event seems to depend on your driver. If yours doesn't show you what you need you can fall back on a polling with a script you start on boot (or when you log in to X)
00:23 < phogg> Henry151: this answer is relevant https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5469828/how-to-create-a-callback-for-monitor-plugged-on-an-intel-graphics
00:24 < lnnb> does {fa,i}notify work on /sys? if so that might be another way to hack it
00:32 < maxcell_> The notebook is compatible with memory sticks: MS, MSPRO and SD. It is compatible with SDXC as well or only SD?
00:33 < maxcell_> SDXC requires a special hardware to be able to use it? Compared to SD?
00:33 < maxcell_> SDXC requires a special hardware to be able to use it, compared to SD?
00:35 < maxcell_> The notebook is compatible with memory sticks: MS, MSPRO and SD. If i plug an SDXC in this notebook it will work? Or not?
00:35 < revel> You don't need to say it once every 5 minutes...]
00:35 < maxcell_> sorry i'm trying to make the question understandable
00:41 < rikt0r> Hi. I'm setting ChrootDirectory in my sshd_config file. It works but if I use a directory that contains a dot (.) it fails. Any ideas on whether this is common (do I need to escape or something?) or would it be a specific openssh issue?
00:55 < FreeFull> Is there any way for me to throttle my network interface's speed down temporarily?
00:56 < FreeFull> Ah, seems yes
00:57 < akem> FreeFull, how?
00:57 < lnnb> unplug the cable rapidly?
00:57 < revel> lol
00:59 < FreeFull> akem: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_traffic_control
01:00 < cmj> there used to be something simple like wondershaper
01:00 < cmj> might still be around
01:01 < akem> I see, this one isn't simple.
01:03 < FreeFull> Seems wondershaper uses ifb
01:04 < akem> Wondershaper is easy and its packaged on Ubuntu.
01:05 < FreeFull> I'm not using ubuntu ;)
01:09 < akem> FreeFull, it's a shellscript, with lots of 'tc' commands apparently :P but you can just specify upload and download limits
01:10 < Henry151> So i'm a little stuck
01:10 < Henry151> https://bpaste.net/show/2b7593e80b48
01:11 < Henry151> the monitor-hotplug.sh script works like I want it to if i manually execute it, but the udev rule doesn't seem to catch when it's plugged in and unplugged.
01:12 < Henry151> the ouputs from the udevadm monitor commands are running the command, then plugging it in, then unplugging it. I want the script to run whether it's plugged in, or unplugged
01:12 < Henry151> i can't seem to match it correctly. I did restart udev with systemctl restart udev
01:13 < lnnb> are you sure card0 is the device ?
01:13 < Henry151> it sure looks right; I mean look at the output of udevadm monitor
01:13 < Henry151> that's where i am getting all the info from
01:14 < kilo> hello lnnb
01:14 < lnnb> hail kilo
01:14 < kilo> good morrow
01:14 < kilo> how's things
01:15 < lnnb> currently very annoying, trying to find an off by one rounding error in my integer based line renderer :<
01:15 < kilo> owch
01:16 < kilo> I'm trying to sort out conflicting variables
01:16 < kilo> in my command-line email program
01:16 < kilo> bleh
01:17 < mawk> what's a line-renderer lnnb
01:17 < lnnb> renders lines
01:18 < kilo> of course
01:18 < mawk> indeed
01:18 < kilo> very descriptive
01:18 < lnnb> i screwed up and when i drag cursor over my line they shift ever so slightly, depending on the intersection offset :<
01:18 < kilo> woooops
01:19 < mawk> pen and paper is your best friend
01:19 < kilo> geany is a good editor
01:19 < kilo> (graphical)
01:20 < mawk> and emacs is better
01:20 < kilo> nano is gud
01:21 < Henry151> harumph
01:21 < Henry151> i still can't figure it out
01:21 < kilo> it's kind of annoying to set up auto-close
01:21 < Henry151> my udev rule looks right for the udevadm monitor output, I can't understand what i could be doing wrong; the script is executable; i'm stumped
01:22 < kilo> anyone know about wammer?
01:22 < Henry151> https://bpaste.net/show/2b7593e80b48
01:22 < lnnb> Henry151: i never messed with this tuff before, is KERNEL="card0" correct? seems like that should be DEVNAME
01:22 < kilo> wifi jammer?
01:22 < lnnb> standard household microwave?
01:22 < brrn> I know about it
01:22 < kilo> zap
01:23 < kilo> evreyone gets disconnected
01:23 < lnnb> oh that only covers 2.4ghz wifi
01:23 < kilo> ya
01:23 < kilo> but still fun
01:23 < kilo> also macof
01:23 < Henry151> following examples, it looks like it should be kernel
01:23 < Henry151> http://wiki.linuxwall.info/doku.php/en:ressources:astuces:udev_hdmi
01:23 < brrn> My neighbor used it on another neighbor
01:24 < kilo> mwaaaaahaha
01:24 < brrn> the other neighbor ran at the neighbor with a frying pan
01:24 < kilo> unsecured networks are the funnest networks
01:24 < brrn> they're both wifi programmers that work for cisco
01:24 < kilo> 'specially if you can do a traceroute
01:25 < kilo> ya
01:26 < brrn> lnnb: who uses microwaves any more?
01:26 < kilo> take them apart for the magnets
01:26 < lnnb> seriously can't we do thz by now?
01:26 < kilo> throw them at people's phones
01:27 < iflema> just leave em alone... they are really dangerous wit the cover off
01:27 < kilo> microwaves?
01:27 < kilo> ya
01:27 < brrn> kilo is probably just some 13 year old...
01:27 < kilo> probably
01:27 < iflema> powered up or not
01:28 < kilo> brrn is probably a bored teenager sitting in a basement
01:28 < kilo> iflema: powered off
01:28 < iflema> still a killer
01:28 < lnnb> Henry151: that link doesn't show KERNEL== anywhere on that page  ?
01:29 < brrn> kilo is probably sitting at a messy desk using a raspberry pi 1...
01:29 < brrn> I throw out my microwave.
01:29 < brrn> threw (sorry)
01:29 < lnnb> all i see is  SUBSYSTEM=="drm", ACTION=="change", RUN+="/usr/local/bin/dmi_toggle"
01:29 < kilo> my fried potato computer
01:29 < kilo> woa
01:30 < kilo> almost typed commuter there
01:30 < kilo> Ihave a very fast commuter
01:31 < kilo> who here is sitting by a commuter
01:32 < iflema> also in a bath
01:32 < iflema> with bubbles
01:33 < kilo> are you?
01:33 < iflema> the screens steaming up but i can wipe it
01:33 < kilo> on a tablet
01:33 < kilo> or laptop?
01:33 < iflema> laptop
01:33 < eb0t> hey is rss still popular
01:33 < iflema> coplete with sticky tape
01:34 < brrn> as a 14 year old.. I don't know what rss is...
01:34 < eb0t> neither did i until just now
01:34 < kilo> I have a 30 inch IPS amoled monitor
01:34 < kilo> actually 23 inch
01:34 < iflema> eb0t: theres too many
01:35  * brrn is programming right now, and would not like any one to disturb him (KILO)
01:35 < eb0t> i was wondering if its worth putting an rss feed on a website or if its old hat
01:35 < eb0t> like c#
01:35 < kilo> I like python
01:35 < iflema> i like json
01:35 < kilo> and java
01:35 < kilo> and css
01:35 < eb0t> i like python and json
01:36 < brrn> I like fortran
01:36 < kilo> I like BASIC
01:36 < kilo> I like assembly
01:36 < brrn> I like 1's and 0's
01:36 < eb0t> switches
01:36 < iflema> snoogins
01:36 < eb0t> rocks
01:36 < kilo> CLICKY BUTTONS
01:36 < kilo> AAAAAAA
01:37 < iflema> eggs
01:37 < kilo> aren;t we a wee bit off topic here?
01:37 < kilo> dontcha think
01:37 < iflema> foxtrot
01:37 < lnnb> don't penguins lay eggs?
01:37 < iflema> uniform
01:37 < iflema> charlie
01:37 < iflema> kilo
01:38 < kilo> alpha
01:38 < kilo> bravo
01:38 < kilo> delta
01:38 < iflema> force
01:38 < kilo> tux lays eggs
01:39 < iflema> snakes
01:39 < brrn> kilo: hmm....
01:39 < kilo> type: sudo apt install sl
01:39 < kilo> every time you type sl instead of ls
01:40 < tx> sl is a very important utility
01:40 < kilo> it shows an ASCII steam locomotive
01:40 < kilo> (SL)
01:40 < tx> not having it installed just means your built is incomplete
01:40 < iflema> kilo:    tac    a file
01:40 < tx> build*
01:41 < iflema> sl lol
01:42 < brrn> I never type sl
01:42 < iflema> what else does it do?
01:42 < brrn> read the man pages
01:42 < brrn> or google
01:42 < iflema> lol
01:42 < brrn> or duckduckgo
01:42 < brrn> or bing
01:42 < iflema> bang
01:42 < kilo> I will be back in 3hrs approx
01:43 < kilo> bye
01:43 < brrn> bye
01:43 < mawk> great piece of information
02:03 < Henry151> woooot woooot!
02:03 < Henry151> i'm making progress
02:04 < Henry151> the udev rule now runs the script at the right moment (when unplugging or plugging in the hdmi cable)
02:04 < Henry151> however it runs it from some weird position such that it can't do what it's supposed to do
02:04 < Henry151> xauthority something or other problem i'm almost there
02:19 < dannylee> ya ya i just install fedora 27 workstation on my 960 dell optiplex...it was a clean instalation...but gvim just don`t work
02:20 < dannylee> openSUSE died a painfull death
02:20 < dannylee> fedora is a bit better than openSUSE
02:21 < dannylee> thru a hackers stand point
02:21 < MetaNova> dannylee: how's that brain injury the mob game you going
02:21 < MetaNova> s/game/gave/
02:22 < MetaNova> still pretending that happened?
02:22 < dannylee> ok man its a true story about the bullet in the back of my head
02:22 < MetaNova> oh so it's a different story now
02:22 < MetaNova> see with you changing the premise and all it almost makes me think you *made the whole thing up*
02:23 < Sveta> how about you both play this game elsewhere
02:24 < dannylee> ok i like the russian mofia..and i like the italian mofia..but i hate the sciontogist mofia???
02:24 < Sveta> please, move this to a more appropriate venue
02:25 < lnnb> does free software have it's own mafia yet?
02:25 < dannylee> fedoa 27 wont let me install gvim..i just get a error..sorry
02:26 < dannylee> but i still love fedora the best
02:27 < Sveta> what error ?
02:27 < dannylee> i can live without gvim...but vim was just allot of fun
02:27 < Sveta> check privmsg please ?
02:27 < lnnb> dannylee: only thing gvim is good for is mouse copy/pasting
02:28 < dannylee> its all true..its my favorite hacking t00000l
02:28 < dannylee> now its bash
02:29 < pfred1> only thing gvim is good for is making it look like there's apps for Linux
02:30 < dannylee> some of you guys are really smart...my IQ is falling every day...ill leave
02:33 < strive> What are some possibilities as to why video playback lags on TV connected to laptop via HDMI? I've got radeon enabled with the kernel. https://paste.debian.net/1031101/
02:34 < lnnb> what does lags mean
02:34 < strive> lnnb: It's not a lag as in bandwidth, but lag as in video stuttering a bit.
02:35 < lnnb> dropped frames?
02:35 < strive> Maybe, not sure what you would call it.
02:36 < ansraliant> I had a similar problem with a machine with nvidia. The thing was that it was using a CPU intensive decoder, instead of using the GPU, and that caused the video to be like slow
02:37 < sysfault> why isnt my swap partition being used at all with my freshly installed and formatted/partitioned ssd drive running ubuntu
02:37 < strive> ansraliant: Ah.
02:37 < sysfault> is this the norm?
02:37 < sysfault> i can run 15 apps and it still isnt touched
02:38 < strive> ansraliant: Would you happen to know how to go about checking if GPU is being used?
02:38 < lnnb> is your cpu usage through the roof playing the video?
02:39 < strive> 2 cores - both are at 80%+
02:40 < ansraliant> strive: maybe this helps https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Hardware_video_acceleration#Verification
02:40 < pfred1> you dirty core
02:42 < strive> https://paste.debian.net/1031104/
02:42 < strive> Bah.
02:44 < strive> What's also weird is that when I play a video on VLC, it'll play on the laptop screen, but when I move it over to the TV it turns white white some black arrows.
02:47 < swift110_> that sucks strive is it updated?
02:47 < strive> swift110_: Yea :/
02:58 < strive> ansraliant: I ran vainfo remotely before. I'm at the laptop now: https://paste.debian.net/1031106/
02:58 < strive> ansraliant: Interesting to see that radeon isn't listed there.
02:59 < strive> I'm totally confused right now.
03:01 < ansraliant> strive: on this machine it looks like vaapi is enabled and working
03:01 < swift110_> interesting strive
03:02 < FManTropyx> what command tells me how many lines a text file contains?
03:02 < Sveta> cat file | wc -l
03:03 < strive> Damn
03:04 < FManTropyx> thanks
03:04 < Henry151> i'm so frustrated now i'm not having fun anymore :( I can't get this thing to work, it's something with Xauthority causing problems... udev runs /usr/local/bin/monitor-hotplug.sh when i plug in my hdmi cable. If I run /usr/local/bin/monitor-hotplug.sh as my normal user account, it does what I want it to do. But when it runs from udev, it can't
03:04 < ansraliant> strive: ohhh... I see. So it should be working. Can you check the decoder the player is using?
03:04 < Henry151> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20395027/scripts-launched-from-udev-do-not-have-display-access-anymore
03:04 < Henry151> it's something like this, but I've been unable to get any of those solutions to work for me
03:06 < lnnb> is there a particular error you're seeing Henry151
03:07 < lnnb> copy the .xauthority from your user directory into whatever user is running the script
03:07 < Henry151> lnnb: no.. I know it's running the script, because I added a line in it that writes the word "testing" to a file, before attempting to do the xrandr commands
03:07 < Henry151> if i run the script as user, it does what i want
03:07 < Henry151> but when udev runs the script, the xrandr commands are not executed
03:07 < lnnb> because it can't connect to X11 socket?
03:08 < lnnb> from missing xauth credentials
03:08 < Henry151> i think that's the problem
03:08 < Henry151> yes
03:08 < lnnb> copy the file
03:08 < lnnb> see if ti works
03:08 < lnnb> ~/.Xauthority or some junk like that
03:08 < Henry151> i copied the file from ~/.Xauthority to /root/.Xauthority
03:09 < Henry151> i also tried "xhost +si:localuser:root"
03:09 < lnnb> you probably have to set ENV variable
03:09 < lnnb> to point to xauth file
03:10 < Henry151> yep, at the start of the file i do "export XAUTHORITY=/home/henry/.Xauthority"
03:10 < Henry151> at the start of the monitor-hotplug.sh
03:10 < lnnb> and DISPLAY is set?
03:10 < Henry151> export DISPLAY=:0
03:12 < lnnb> is this script actually executed by root?
03:12 < Henry151> yes
03:12 < Henry151> i believe
03:12 < Henry151> it's called by udev
03:12 < Henry151> so i think it gets executed as root
03:12 < Henry151> this is the whole monitor-hotplug.sh: https://bpaste.net/show/ec6798423b21
03:13 < lnnb> beliefs and facts can disagree soemtimes, best to be certain
03:14 < lnnb> by adding a whoami, or some getuid type call in the script
03:15 < lnnb> or long sleep and manually check with  ps / top
03:16 < Sitri> I'm trying to build Samba, but the configure fails because I don't have large files support.  What's responsible for providing that?
03:17 < Sitri> "Samba requires large file support support, but not available on this platform: sizeof(off_t) < 8"
03:17 < Henry151> it's executed by root
03:18 < Henry151> but now it's getting weirder. When I unplug the hdmi cable, it does, definitely does, run the xrandr --output eDP-1 --auto --output DP-2     --off command
03:18 < lnnb> can you see the script output or does udev brush it under the rug on you
03:18 < kurahaupo> Sitri: are you running a 32-bit kernel?
03:18 < Henry151> I can't see it
03:18 < lnnb> maybe on console, or a log file somewhere
03:18 < Henry151> but i did whoami >> afile.txt
03:18 < lnnb> ok try to pipe the output from xrandr to a file
03:19 < Sitri> kurahaupo: 64-bit kernel, no 32-bit userspace at all
03:19 < lnnb> both stderr and stdout, i think  xrander [options] &> outputfile.test  should do it
03:20 < kurahaupo> Sitri: does your compiler target 32-bit?
03:20 < Henry151> hm... nothing.. it created the file but left it empty
03:21 < lnnb> ehhhhh? that's weird,  strace will definitely tell you whats happening
03:22 < Henry151> so i try "strace xrandr etc etc > logfile.txt" in the script?
03:23 < lnnb> strace -o logfile.txt -f (xrandr command here)
03:24 < Henry151> i'm getting "strace: command not found" ... apt install strace?
03:25 < lnnb> i guess
03:25 < lnnb> ew what kind of system doesn't come with strace
03:25 < FManTropyx> is 0000:02:00.0 a valid local address?
03:25 < Henry151> it's debian 9
03:31 < Henry151> thanks for trying to help me with this, lnnb
03:31 < Sitri> kurahaupo: Looks like there's an issue with some system headers, fixing that right now.
03:31 < Henry151> i'm looking at http://termbin.com/3l89 the strace output but i haven't  figured anything out from it yet
03:33 < lnnb> 5268  access("/home/henry.Xauthority", R_OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
03:33 < Henry151> lnnb: wow nice eyes
03:34 < Henry151> thank you, i'll see if i can correct that somehow
03:34 < Sitri> kurahaupo: Yeah, that was it.  Headers weren't installed properly (which I found when trying to build something with -m32, so thanks!)
03:35 < lnnb> no idea why tf xrandr decides to supress that, maybe the x11 socket is not even protected by xauth ?
03:36 < Henry151> well, i corrected the typo in the path to the .Xauthority file, but it still doesn't seem to be working. This is the new strace: http://termbin.com/6z6m
03:36 < PuercoPop> Anyone got recommendations for easiest way to record a screencast of an X11 desktop + audio?
03:36 < Henry151> PuercoPop: i did that with VLC the other day
03:36 < Henry151> it was pretty easy to set up
03:37 < PuercoPop> Henry151: Thanks
03:38 < Henry151> lnnb: it's doing one thing weird now. If I plug in the hdmi cable, and then i execute the monitor-hotplug.sh manually, it turns it on. Before, I would have to unplug it and again run the file manually to turn it back off, or it would just stay on, even though unplugged. Now, if I turn it on manually, when I unplug the HDMI cable, it runs the script and successfully turns it off; then when i plug back in,
03:38 < Henry151> i have to run the script again to turn it back on
03:38 < Henry151> so even when udev executes it as root, the second xrandr command, to turn the display off, is working correctly; just not the first one, to turn it on
03:40 < Henry151> this is what I'm currently running: https://bpaste.net/show/f400eacc32d2
03:40 < Henry151> so, to clarify -- when udev runs that automatically, upon plugging in the hdmi cable, it doesn't succeed; but when i unplug the hdmi cable and udev runs it again automatically, it does succeed
03:40 < Copenhagen_Bram> hello
03:41 < Henry151> if i run it manually as henry, it works to turn it on or off; when udev runs it, it only works to turn it off
03:41 < lnnb> hmm ok, try sleep 10 instead of 1 maybe
03:41 < Copenhagen_Bram> is there a way to run a program in low res, but make it big enough to see, without changing the resolution of the entire screen?
03:42 < Copenhagen_Bram> and hello
03:42 < Henry151> woooooot wooooot!!!! I love you lnnb
03:42 < Henry151> it works now
03:43 < Henry151> now the final test i must do is to restart my machine and see if it still works
03:43 < lnnb> strange that 1 second isn't enough time for drm to setup what it has to for hotplug
03:43 < Henry151> apparently the one xauth command i did earlier i understand resets when you restart the machine
03:43 < Henry151> yeah i thought one second was plenty
03:43 < lnnb> oh
03:44 < lnnb> yeah it's best to wipe xauth on boot if you aren't doing remote stuff with it
03:45 < Ameisen> Down to, hopefully, my last linker error
03:45 < Ameisen> It can't find the 'steal_time' symbol
03:45 < Henry151> well i'm not even 100% sure if the xauth command i did was necessary, since i am doing the export XAUTHORITY= stuff too, and i did copy the .Xauthority file to /root/ as well
03:46 < Henry151> i'm going to reboot and see how it goes
03:46 < Henry151> be back in a few
03:46 < lnnb> gl
03:55 < rcmaehl> Hi all, is there a way to limit address space allocation
03:55 < rcmaehl> I don't want to allocate RAM past 3.5GB
03:56 < p1n0ch3t> hi rcmaehl, are you working on a code ? I had to do something similar when I was working in a C code but this was long time ago
03:57 < Amm0n> Hi! I got the same problem on arch with latest FF: https://askubuntu.com/questions/966574/pavucontrol-rear-behaviour
03:57 < p1n0ch3t> I think for you to limit the memory allocation you can use the ulimit command
03:57 < Amm0n> Anyone with a workaround?
03:58 < xamithan> Don't use the latest ff ?
03:59 < xamithan> Don't use pulseaudio ?
03:59 < lnnb> since like version 50 :P
04:00 < Henry151> great now i've really screwed something up
04:00 < pfred1>   learn by screwing
04:01 < rcmaehl> @p1n0ch3t, working with a weird chipset
04:01 < xamithan> Is that the same problem as referenced here? https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1185273
04:02 < rcmaehl> pfred1, I'd recommend protection though
04:02 < Henry151> so when i boot up, i login, the i run "startx" (as is my usual procedure for starting this machine)... it pauses for a very long time and then says "xauth timed out locking /home/henry/.Xauthority" (<--from memory)... so I thought maybe i had screwed up the permissions or something somehow, so i ran sudo chown henry /home/henry.Xauthority and then chmod r+rw (i think? I googled "what permissions should
04:02 < Henry151> xauthority have" and did one of them)... then i rebooted again to see if that would solve the problem; now i run startx, see the same error, and then get dumped to a black screen, no x session
04:03 < p1n0ch3t> rcmaehl I had to do something similar. I was working on a chipset for a solar panel. I don't remember how we managed to solve the memory problem. But I did a quick research on Google it seems you can use the "ulimit" command
04:03 < Amm0n> xamithan, no
04:04 < lnnb> Henry151: you can probably delete the Xauthority file and startx (should) regenerate it.  you can read the startx script to verify
04:04 < Henry151> i'll try that.. i'll keep a copy just in case...
04:05 < pfred1> my .Xauthority has a magical cookie in it
04:10 < Henry151> ok, everything is fixed
04:10 < Henry151> it all works correctly now, except, i had to run xhost +si:localuser:root before it would work again, after the reboot
04:11 < Henry151> anyway i can make that permanent? i thought maybe i could just add that as a line in the script, but the script is executed as root, not as henry, so i don't know if it will work, i understand these xauthority things even if you're root you can't mess with a users stuff, you have to do it as the user, or something like that
04:13 < lnnb> i don't even know what xhost is, maybe someone else knows what's up with that
04:14 < Henry151> well thanks for all the help though lnnb you really got me outta the weeds
04:14 < Henry151> i'm gonna try adding "xhost +si:localuser:root" to the script and rebooting again and seeing if it works
04:14 < Henry151> be back soon
04:20 < lnnb> Henry151: theres probably a config file for xhost somewhere if that doesn't work out
04:21 < Henry151> lnnb: so i added the xhost line to my i3 config in with my other startup scripts, so that when the machine boots up it will be executed, and that worked
04:22 < Henry151> everything is now functioning as desired (except for the ten second delay; I'm going to keep trying lower numbers and see how much time it needs exactly)
04:24 < Henry151> i was going to tackle getting my volume keys working as well; and maybe even trying to figure out how to get the darn fingerprint reader working too (this is all on my Thinkpad P51) ... but that first task, the HDMI stuff, took me about ten times the effort that I thought it would, so that stuff may have to wait for another day
04:25 < Henry151> it feels good to have rebooted my laptop though, i hadn't done that more than three times since i bought it for myself for christmas
04:27 < Henry151> I had all ten workspaces filled with things i was going to get back to later, over 150 tabs open spread among 5 different windows on different workspaces, so many terminals left open, all this stuff that I couldn't bring myself to close... now it's a clean slate again, and I can always look any of it up, i don't know what i was thinking
04:27 < Henry151> hopefully i'll forget about most of it
04:27 < Henry151> articles i was going to read later and stuff
04:27 < Henry151> i just killed it all with "sudo shutdown -r now"
04:28 < Henry151> freeeeedom
04:35 < lobata> man those were probably all important
04:36 < lobata> you can do "save open tabs to bookmark folder"
04:37 < Henry151> lobata: i've done that so many times, that my bookmarks are so overflowing, that I don't even use them anymore
04:58 < Henry151> i guess tomorrow I will try to figure out how to route my audio through the HDMI cable, if that's even possible
05:01 < michaelrose> ought to be easy the gpu ought to have an output exposed
05:13 < Tech_8> hi
05:33 < kilo> kilo is back
05:34 < logan0405> hi. i changed resolution of grub, now when i boot back into windows the screen is cut in half
05:34 < logan0405> why?
05:34 < logan0405> its shifted up by half the screen so half of it is cut off
05:36 < michaelrose> resolution of grub can't change how windows works
05:37 < logan0405> but it worked when resolution was default
05:38 < kilo> lnnb: hello
05:38 < retran> logan0405, what type of monitor setup? Flat screen over a VGA?
05:38 < logan0405> 1 monitor HDMI
05:38 < michaelrose> logan0405, this doesn't neccesarily mean they are connected I'm struggling to understand the mechanism where a setting in grub would effect windows after it boots up
05:38 < logan0405> it's a small TV
05:38 < kilo> grub kind of ignores monitor res
05:38 < logan0405> ok hold on let me restart just to confirm it's grub doing this
05:38 < logan0405> i have ssd ill be fast
05:39 < justsomeguy> So, I want to test a sshd service file I wrote, but I don't have an external machine to connect from. Can I use a loopback device or something like that?
05:39 < michaelrose> I did x a happend I did y b happened doesn't mean y causes b
05:40 < justsomeguy> s/device/interface/
05:40 < retran> justsomeguy, what happens when you `ssh someuser@localhost` or `ssh someuser@127.0.0.1`
05:40 < retran> also depends on what you're "testing"
05:40 < retran> maybe the configuration is for a particular device
05:41 < justsomeguy> Ah... that should work. I'm... a little embarrassed that I didn't think of that. (I suck at networking, tho.)
05:41 < lnnb> kilo roger
05:42 < logan0405> yes if i set grub to 640x480 it messes up windows, screen is shifted up half the screen
05:42 < logan0405> but if i leave it default grub is really laggy for some reason and crashes half the time
05:42 < retran> logan0405, seems like a glitch in your monitor
05:42 < justsomeguy> I'm testing some things like restricting access to certain directories with 'InacessibleDirectories=' in my systemd service unit.
05:43 < justsomeguy> Just want to make sure it starts up at the moment.
05:43 < logan0405> ok, well i just want it to work somehow. why might setting it to 640x480 stop it from lagging so much?
05:43 < retran> logan0405, or, have you looked up the native resolution modes for your monitor?
05:43 < justsomeguy> Seems to work!
05:43 < logan0405> i will check
05:43 < retran> logan0405, reduced framebuffer size?
05:43 < retran> justsomeguy, nice
05:43 < logan0405> retran: how can i increase framebuffer size for grub?
05:43 < retran> your default does increase it, which is why it's slower?
05:44 < retran> isn't 640x480 is kinda "small"?
05:44 < logan0405> it's not just slow it crashes just from moving arrow keys too fast
05:44 < retran> longhorn, your job right look up the modes supported by your monitor
05:45 < retran> who knows. I'm just speculating the "size" of a video framebuffer would affect CPU usage. the bigger the resolution, the bigger the framebuffer of course
05:45 < jvelasquez_> logan0405, maybe uEFI or BIOS would make a difference.
05:45 < retran> it doesn't matter why so much as it's broken
05:46 < logan0405> im using BIOS, UEFI always messes up for me
05:46 < logan0405> legacy bios
05:46 < retran> i can't think of why that would matter
05:46 < retran> (bios vs uefi)
05:46 < retran> but using an invalid resolution not supported by either your video card or monitor... that does matter
05:47 < jvelasquez_> retran, cause bios uses hundreds of different commands to the system during boot, than uEFI
05:47 < retran> jvelasquez_, k
05:47 < jvelasquez_> retran, but indeed you're correct, using an invalid resolution should be investigated first i'd think.
05:48 < jvelasquez_> but I don't really know anything. I'm just asking.  :-)
05:48 < retran> we now wait for logan0405 to finish his homework
05:48 < logan0405> im using a rather obscure TV as a monitor, but the lowest resolution i can test on linux here is 720x576. will test that for grub now
05:48 < ioerror88> anyone miss that sweet sound of v.90? https://osdev.ninja/login/ Leme know if its borky?
05:48 < retran> logan0405, naughty. you didn't look up the supported resolutions did you.
05:49 < logan0405> i cant find them haha
05:49 < logan0405> https://www.cnet.com/products/element-eleft281-28-led-tv/specs/
05:49 < retran> logan0405, how about make a wild guess, and do the equiv of 720p?
05:49 < logan0405> that's what it is now, it's lagging
05:50 < retran> logan0405, what's your video card specs, you can find supported modes published for that surely?
05:50 < logan0405> let me check. im using intel integrated, should be easier to find
05:50 < retran> and to be clear, you're doing 1280 x 720 and it "lags"?
05:50 < logan0405> but it should be a valid resolution if i can set it from inside linux mint right?
05:50 < jvelasquez_> ioerror88,  lol!  not bad!
05:51 < retran> logan0405, why would you think that? especially when you're experiencing issues like this?
05:51 < ioerror88> jvelasquez_: Users wanted a new login page.. Well they got it. Lol.
05:51 < retran> just because it appears in a menu
05:51 < logan0405> 1360x768 is native resolution actually... and it's slow to move the cursor to different selections, if i move very fast grub hangs and i must restart
05:51 < retran> logan0405, who told you that was the native resolution?
05:52 < michaelrose> I can tell without looking based on the size of the tv that its 720p
05:52 < logan0405> it's the default in linux mint it's native right?
05:52 < retran> according to the specs I'm reading for your monitor, that is NOT the native size
05:52 < retran> logan0405, what gave you that idea?
05:52 < michaelrose> come on its a tv and 28" and not some super awesome hot shit of course its 720p
05:52 < logan0405> all the other resolutions look bad
05:53 < retran> logan0405, the native resolution for that set is 1280x720
05:53 < logan0405> stretched
05:53 < retran> full stop
05:53 < logan0405> oh.
05:53 < retran> this should have taken you 60 seconds to determine
05:53 < logan0405> well let me try this new grub
05:54 < retran> and now you should rule out (quickly) if that's also a mode supported by your GPU
05:54 < retran> (that's something you look up)
05:54 < retran> it probably is, but never know, maybe you're using something ultra old/strange
05:55 < michaelrose> another weird thing is why are you moving your mouse in the grub selection screen
05:55 < granttrec> Can the exec in find run executables?
05:55 < retran> also, one last time to clarify.... is it grub that it's laggy and messed up? or windows?
05:56 < retran> granttrec, what else is it going to run
05:56 < granttrec> a sed script with the shebang #!/bin/sed -fi
05:57 < retran> huh
05:57 < retran> I'm confused by your question I guess, granttrec... if indeed you were asking one
05:58 < michaelrose> nevermind he said moving arrow keys too fast which is still strange since booting anything should require at most 2 clicks down
05:58 < retran> granttrec, you want to execute a sed script that doesn't have the +x bit?
05:59 < xx2> hello how do I revert kernel update?
05:59 < granttrec> I have a sed script that I want to run inside find, I made it executable using chmod +x, so wondering if find can run executables
05:59 < retran> granttrec, ah. So I'm asking you, what do you think "find -exec" does?
06:00 < retran> you already gave the answer with your initial question, it seemed
06:00 < granttrec> yeah I see your point now
06:01 < retran> great
06:02 < xx2> hello how do I revert kernel update?
06:02 < retran> xx2, do you have physical control of the device
06:02 < retran> or at least control from the boot manager
06:02 < retran> (if it's a VPS or something)
06:03 < xx2> retran: yes I am on the pc cinnamon has crashed but things still work only in low resolution
06:05 < retran> xx2, so restart and choose the older kernel on the boot loader screen
06:07 < kilo> hellooooooooooo
06:07 < xx2> retran: ok
06:21 < jim> kilo, wut
06:25 < kilo> jim: hi
06:32 < kilo> ##windows is unhelpful
06:33 < micrex22> kilo is that why people sometimes ask windows 10 questions here? lol
06:33 < kilo> ya
06:33 < Stryyker> disingenuous
06:34 < kilo> oh no you;re here too?
06:34 < kilo> bye
06:34 < Comstock> kilo wouldn't answer any questions Stryyker asked him to help with his issue
06:34 < kilo> you too?
06:34 < kilo> I told you everything you asked
06:35 < kilo> I mean, seriously
06:35 < Comstock> this channel is for linux support.
06:35 < kilo> I would have been better off with the virtual support assistant
06:35 < kilo> I know
06:36 < rumpel> Make Clippit great again \o/
06:36 < kilo> hi
06:37 < Comstock> the Clippy guy was MS's best invention tbh
06:37 < Comstock> "Looks like you're trying to copy and paste, would you like some help with that?"
06:37 < kilo> you may proceed to alt+f4
06:38 < retran> Comstock, so kilo one of those IRC double-posters?
06:38 < Comstock> he's something...
06:38 < kilo> you too
06:38 < kilo> yes I am
06:39 < retran> the logic goes "if I don't get an answer in the appropriate channel, then I should ask in an obviously inappropriate channel"
06:39 < retran> a double-poster is someone who posts the same question at the same time in multiple channels
06:39 < Comstock> ##linux sounds like a great spot to ask windows questions!
06:40 < kilo> I didn't ask anything
06:40 < kilo> y'all just noticed I was here and decided to come bother me
06:40 < kilo> soooooo.
06:40 < kilo> ...
06:40 < retran> fair enough
06:41 < kilo> ya
06:42 < kilo> I really screwed up an ubuntu install by hacking my laptop's fingerprint sensor
06:42 < retran> kilo, what did you do to it
06:42 < kilo> ehh....
06:43 < kilo> wrote a thing...
06:43 < kilo> didn't work...
06:43 < retran> and what does the thing "do"
06:43 < michaelrose> why would anyone expect windows help here?
06:43 < kilo> makes the sensor work
06:44 < kilo> ya knoe
06:44 < michaelrose> Is that like the people who believe you "know computers" means you must be able to help with any skill that involves computers like "computers" is a skill vs 17000 skills that require specific knowledge and skill
06:45 < kilo> whaaaa
06:45 < Comstock> yeah, people expect me to know hardware when i say i'm proficient with computers
06:45 < Comstock> i need to specify software
06:45 < kilo> hardware is fun
06:45 < kilo> untiil it breaks
06:45 < Comstock> tried to build a computer once, didn't go well
06:46 < Comstock> had to take it to a shop lol
06:46 < kilo> ah
06:46 < kilo> messed up the cables?
06:46 < jim> Comstock, maybe more correctly, they expect you to help them with the problem of the moment
06:46 < Comstock> no idea, didn't get past putting the MB in
06:46 < kilo> well thennn
06:47 < michaelrose> building computers is actually pretty easy
06:47 < kilo> how...
06:47 < Humatiel> jim: Thats a really good way to put that
06:47 < kilo> did you crack the board?
06:47 < Comstock> i mean, if i tried again now, i'd probably fair much better
06:47 < Comstock> i have a good 10+ years experience gained
06:47 < kilo> ya
06:47 < michaelrose> also most mistakes in building computers is fixable if you screw it up
06:48 < kilo> you haven;t tried since?
06:48 < Comstock> i took my laptop apart last month, ended up with an extra piece. it runs thouhg.
06:48 < kilo> owch
06:48 < michaelrose> laptops are much more of a pain
06:48 < Comstock> agreed.
06:48 < kilo> yas
06:48 < kilo> tiny screws
06:48 < Comstock> i take mine apart for a good cleaning once every few months
06:49 < kilo> and sticky stuff
06:49 < Sveta> good
06:49 < Comstock> surprising how dirty they can get
06:49 < Sveta> what laptop are you using Comstock ?
06:49 < kilo> I found a dead bug in mine last week
06:49 < Sveta> i'm laptop shopping, looking for good recommendations
06:49 < kilo> dell xps 13
06:49 < michaelrose> man my mom had a laptop years back where the cpu died fine a replacement cpu on a really old laptop was available for cheap great who needs to buy a new one! ya... replacing the cpu involved nearly complete disassembly
06:49 < kilo> macbook pro
06:49 < michaelrose> and something else was dead too
06:50 < Comstock> right now i am using my old compaq presario cq57. my main laptop + surge protector died to a direct lightning strike to the house last week
06:50 < kilo> a bug
06:50 < kilo> ?
06:50 < kilo> ouch
06:50 < kilo> lightning
06:50 < Sveta> Comstock: glad you survived! what was your main laptop?
06:50 < kilo> I had a mac mini once
06:50 < kilo> It died
06:50 < kilo> of hard drive failure
06:50 < Comstock> gateway nv53 but i had added onto it
06:50 < Comstock> upgraded the ram and such
06:51 < Comstock> too poor to afford buying a new computer outright
06:51 < retran> they still use the Gateway brand?
06:51 < Comstock> no idea lol
06:51 < kilo> gateway is dead
06:51 < Comstock> it was a few years old
06:51 < kilo> dell ate it
06:51 < Comstock> but parts are still readily available
06:51 < kilo> I think
06:51 < Comstock> yeah, that sounds about right
06:52 < kilo> I've got a 15 yr old tabletPC
06:52 < Comstock> i'm going to build a tower this time, gonna buy a piece a month
06:52 < kilo> somehow still runs
06:52 < kilo> the battery lasts about 10min tho
06:52 < Comstock> i scrounge at the electronics dump my town has
06:52 < Comstock> i find parts galore there
06:53 < kilo> fun
06:53 < Comstock> people dump their broken computers and electronics there. got a working dvd player and tv there
06:53 < kilo> nice
06:53 < Comstock> i'm like spider-man
06:53 < kilo> hehe
06:58 < jim> I was in a house where the place next door was struck by lightning... loud... some guy that was there had an apple II running forth
06:58 < retran> jim, what was his name
06:58 < jim> draper
06:58 < Comstock> yeah, it didn't hit like direct on the house but like the little spot where the power comes down into the pole into the box
06:58 < Comstock> if you know what i mean?
06:59 < Comstock> and from that box the power comes into the house
06:59 < retran> but why was he using an ancient computer
06:59 < jim> it was current then
06:59 < retran> oh, like back in the 70s
06:59 < jim> correct
06:59 < Comstock> i would have been fine if the surge protector i was using wasn't ancient
07:00 < Comstock> the newer protectors in other parts of the house faired just fine
07:02 < jim> we got to see the first star trek movie in the theatre that Woz bought out all the tickets to
07:05 < logan0405> i switched to lilo now it works great
07:05 < jim> lilo? in what machine?
07:05 < michaelrose> is that still developed?
07:06 < logan0405> i was using grub and it was lagging, hanging, and glitching out if i changed screen resolution. i tried lilo and it works fine
07:06 < logan0405> no it isn't but it works
07:06 < jim> you should know that lilo uses block lists, so if you move stuff, you might have to install lilo again
07:06 < logan0405> thanks jim
07:06 < jim> welcome
07:07 < jim> that's weird that grub didn't work any better
07:07 < michaelrose> I've never had to even set resolution in grub
07:08 < jim> what exactly was hanging?
07:08 < logan0405> me neither never had a problem with grub. but on this computer it has always glitched out for like a year. i just ignored it
07:08 < michaelrose> does it also behave strangely with a default config?
07:08 < logan0405> it was very laggy, when i pressed down arrow it would lag for 1 second +, then if i tried to press down arrow again while it was still lagging it would lock up entirely
07:08 < Comstock> this laptop i'm using i had to use 4 distros until i found one that installed grub correctly
07:09 < logan0405> yes it was all default
07:09 < jim> hmm weird... maybe hardware issues/
07:09 < jim> ?
07:09 < logan0405> dunno just happy it works now
07:09 < logan0405> just one of those things that slightly annoyed me every day lol
07:09 < jim> which one installed grub correctly?
07:10 < michaelrose> as a random aside why are you using that terrible monitor?
07:10 < logan0405> im broke
07:10 < michaelrose> I've seen better monitors in the thrift store for $10
07:10 < logan0405> also it's comfy. it has speakers
07:23 < michaelrose> obviously not applicable to your area but example https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/sop/d/22-samsung-1080p-monitor/6625944720.html
07:24 < michaelrose> its a 1080p monitor for $20
07:29 < Comstock> i wish i didn't live in the middle of cornfields lol
07:29 < Comstock> i'd love to have an active Craigslist here
07:29 < Pentode> i have a few monitors but only one of them is modern in the south jersey area if anyone wants one. lol
07:29 < Comstock> do you deliver?
07:30 < Comstock> to Illinois
07:30 < Pentode> pickup only ;)
07:30 < Pentode> just get to a nearby city monitors are everywhere
07:30 < Sveta> make a craigslist, it's pretty cheap to host. ask friends to start using it
07:30 < Pentode> _maybe_ the best one i have is worth what it would cost to ship but not really.
07:30 < Sveta> there's also ebay, people sell monitors from there for cheap
07:31 < Pentode> yeah true
07:31 < Comstock> i've had better luck buying refurb'd stuff off of amazon tbh
07:31 < Pentode> some of the bigger sellers even have cheap / free shipping
07:31 < Comstock> i'll check ebay though, haven't really shopped on there in years
07:32 < Pentode> last week they did an upgrade at one of the local businesses. there were stacks of optiplex's and decent old dell 15" monitors just sitting there.
07:33 < ioerror88> :(
07:33 < Pentode> those old dell standard ratio monitors actually have a decent picture, i use one on my haiku machine
07:34 < Pentode> everyone wants widescreen so they are considered garbage
07:34 < Comstock> i used a standard monitor for the longest time
07:34 < Comstock> only upgraded to widescreen when it finally died
07:37 < cmj> your power bill probably looked much better ;p
07:37 < cmj> i had a 21" sony monitor that weighed exactly 97lbs for years. lights dimmed when i turned it on
07:37 < Comstock> powerbill lowered when we finally got rid of the crt's
07:38 < cmj> oh yeah
07:38 < sauvin> Pentode, one of the realities of the Midwest is that the nearest city of any size can be more than two hours away by car.
07:38 < Pentode> i hate living in the city
07:38 < Comstock> i live halfway between chicago and st louis
07:38 < Pentode> vagrants and street urchins everywhere
07:38 < Comstock> so each is 2.5 hours away
07:38 < sauvin> Ew... Pontiac?
07:39 < Comstock> i used to live near pontiac in fairbury
07:39 < Comstock> but no, i live a bit south of bloomington-normal
07:39 < michaelrose> cmj, I had a better than 1080p crt for years
07:39 < sauvin> Oh. Bloomington-Normal is a fairish size, no?
07:39 < Comstock> it is, but it's all college kids lol
07:39 < Comstock> and state farm employees
07:39 < michaelrose> had it in I think 2004 or 2005ish
07:40 < Comstock> but they just did a massive downsizing
07:40 < retran> I couldn't take living in the midwest
07:40 < retran> i moved to LA
07:40 < Comstock> i tried living in cali, just couldn't afford it so had to move back
07:40 < Comstock> even tried living in a shitty part of cali
07:40 < retran> Redding?
07:40 < Comstock> escondido
07:40 < Comstock> near san diego
07:41 < Comstock> moved out there with the promise from a friend for a job waiting for me
07:41 < Comstock> didn't come through
07:41 < retran> who told you that escondido was shitty
07:41 < Comstock> well, i am used to small towns
07:42 < Comstock> so like big cities are all crappy to me lol
07:42 < retran> which, that is one
07:42 < retran> 100k
07:42 < retran> and San Diego is small too
07:42 < Comstock> i have 2k people in my town
07:42 < retran> yeah, that was the size of my town growing up
07:42 < retran> but there was a 100k city nearby
07:42 < Comstock> yeah, bloomington-normal is decent sized
07:43 < Comstock> but it has a small town feel to it
07:43 < retran> after living in LA, San Diego looks quaint
07:43 < retran> tacky and silly
07:43 < Comstock> i liked the beach though
07:43 < retran> maybe it looks those things to you
07:43 < retran> maybe the problem was half assing it
07:44 < retran> should haev gone all the way big
07:44 < Comstock> my family keeps trying to get me to move out to pheonix to be closer to them
07:44 < retran> then you don't depend on some "friend" giving you a job
07:44 < Comstock> might take em up on that eventually.
07:44 < retran> a ton of jobs in bigger cities like LA right now
07:44 < Comstock> yeah, if i move, i'm going to be better prepared this time.
07:44 < retran> Pheonix would be good too
07:55 < jim> I've heard good things about san diego
08:25  * Pentode sighs
08:25 < Pentode> all these different build systems popping up
08:26 < Pentode> and wacked projects using one build system from some packages and another for other packages in the same project
08:26  * Pentode twitches
08:27 < lnnb> it's all autotools' fault
08:27 < Comstock> justin bieber linux
08:27 < Comstock> hannah montana linux supported wayland earlier than most distros, so can't knock it
08:27 < Pentode> lol
08:35 < paulcarroty> wayland now works great everywhere
08:41 < jim> Memphis has left the building!
08:42 < notmike> jim: Psi-Jack is such a troll, don't you agree
08:43 < sauvin> No.
08:45 < notmike> Good thing nobody asked you, loser.
08:49 < nightw0lf> n1
08:49 < lnnb> ????????
08:50 < lnnb> n-1
08:50 < nightw0lf> its like having a chukra and ninjutsu ability
08:51 < lnnb> is this going to be on the quiz?
08:52 < nightw0lf> you'll see on your hands-on exam
08:55 < lnnb> i was wrong earlier when i said it's all autotools' fault, it's also the fault of people that make excuses for it
08:56 < lnnb> "don't worry about those 30,000 line configure files"
08:56 < lnnb> "it's fine"
09:00 < [1]n1x> ..
09:00 < xdije> hi
09:00 < xdije> how can i change default group permissions with setfacl
09:01 < xdije> can i just do setfacl -dm g::rws dir
09:01 < xdije> can i just do setfacl -dm g::rwx dir
09:02 < Psi-Jack> Heh.
09:18 < Aph3x-WL> what did you do to that guy Psi-Jack? :P
09:20 < Psi-Jack> Aph3x-WL: I lived, apparently? ;)
09:20 < lnnb> Psi-Jack likes to use violent emotes, and nobody calls them out on it
09:21 < Psi-Jack> Ahh.. Yes... Apparently I'm such a violent person now, suddenly.
09:22 < pingfloyd> what did I miss?
09:22 < lnnb> i'll let the channel lgos speak for themselves
09:23 < Aph3x-WL> it was a massacre pingfloyd, lucky you were not there
09:23 < winsoff> Psi-Jack, were you around for my question in #solus regarding budgie? It just goes nuclear when I try to log into it. I'll keep the computer on MATE, but I was curious if you'd ever seen major issues with it like that--does budgie have some errorfile I should check?
09:23 < Psi-Jack> Eh? I was not. But, "goes nuclear" doesn't say much. ;)
09:24 < pingfloyd> I had quite an adventure with updating the bios
09:25 < winsoff> Heh. I log in, and then the cursor snaps to a spot in the lower left quadrant a few times, and then a picture of a flower shows up, but then glitches out quite erratically, and, shortly after, the "desktop" shows up, but I cannot right-click anything, and it usually crashes back to lightdm afterward.
09:27 < Psi-Jack> Interesting.
09:27 < pingfloyd> what's budgie?
09:28 < winsoff> That's what I thought! I checked journalctl, but there wasn't anything like "I've discovered the user's intentions. I'm done taking orders." or something else that would explain it.
09:28 < winsoff> pingfloyd, a window manager
09:28 < pingfloyd> I'm sure using lightdm doesn't help matters.  It's a flawed DM.
09:29 < winsoff> Which do you use?
09:29 < Psi-Jack> Eh? I like lightdm, personally. How is it "flawed?
09:29 < pingfloyd> it doesn't source profile like every other dm in existence.
09:29 < winsoff> Interesting; I didn't know about that.
09:30 < pingfloyd> and they do that on purpose
09:30 < pingfloyd> it's not a bug in their eyes
09:30 < pingfloyd> "it's a feature" pft
09:30 < pingfloyd> winsoff: best is to use no DM at all
09:31 < winsoff> But then what will manage the displays? D=
09:31 < pingfloyd> if you're not sharing your computer, you don't really need one.
09:31 < promach> How do I compile https://github.com/VectorBlox/mxp/blob/master/repository/lib/vbxapi/Makefile for baremetal ?
09:31 < pingfloyd> winsoff: manage it in your .xinitrc
09:31 < winsoff> Hmmmm. Interesting.
09:31 < pingfloyd> I bet budgie would all of the sudden mysteriously "work" if you went that route.
09:31 < winsoff> What would LOOK COOL while i login, though
09:32 < pingfloyd> at least then you'd have a better idea of what any problems could be
09:32 < pingfloyd> look cool?!
09:32 < pingfloyd> what does that even mean?
09:33 < winsoff> pingfloyd, you know--gotta catch the eye of everyone around me just so they know i'm using an alternative os
09:34 < pingfloyd> who cares about that.  I care more about making my system work how I want.
09:34 < pingfloyd> if anything a DM looks more like other OSes
09:34 < pingfloyd> logging into a console is what sticks out if you care about that sort of thing.
09:35 < pingfloyd> winsoff: you could always try using a different DM
09:35 < pingfloyd> remove lightdm and say install gdm
09:36 < pingfloyd> gdm is a good baseline for DM functionality
09:36 < winsoff> ah, right, you can only use one dm at a time; forgot about that
09:36 < winsoff> can you just rip out one dm and install another and go back without screwing with your wm?
09:36 < winsoff> software interoperability blows my mind
09:36 < pingfloyd> if your dist is sane, yeah
09:37 < pingfloyd> should be trivial to change it if it is
09:57 < ChrisVim> hey folks! i want to use a preload daemon like go-preload but i'm not sure if it fits my needs. if i run for example firefox and it needs 2 seconds to start w/o preload, doesn't preload just add 2 seconds to the boot time instead?
09:59 < peetaur2> ChrisVim: if the preload is sequential and normal is random reads, then it could be faster...assuming it reads the same amount; so if you gathered the right stats and read only the smallest you need, it might be better.
09:59 < peetaur2> but also an SSD would be better...even if your main fs was on a spinner and there is a cache (eg. with bcache, or dm-cache) on the SSD ... an SSD cache isn't emptied when you reboot
10:01 < peetaur2> I tested a linux host with a windows VM with gpu passthrough with the windows hdd on ssd vs hdd vs bcache hdd+ssd ... tested starting some games that take forever like kerbal space program, and the bcache was the winner...even faster than the ssd by a tiny bit
10:01 < peetaur2> tested just starting them up all the way, not further
10:01 < ChrisVim> peetaur2: thanks for your answer, i really appreciate it!
10:06 < iflema> is debian reproducable yet...
10:07 < iflema> i even
10:08 < iflema> https://isdebianreproducibleyet.com/
10:08 < iflema> lol
10:26 < ansraliant> lesbianproducibaljet?
10:26 < ansraliant> I swear I read that at first glance
10:27 < pingfloyd> what?
10:36 < uxbal> hey guys. in 2018, is there a point to non-automated distros where you have to compile basically everything?
10:36 < azarus> uxbal: non-automated? do you mean, not shipping binaries?
10:36 < azarus> can be helpful in some cases
10:39 < uxbal> azarus: meaning not having gui tools to do configs like yast in opensuse, versus for instance slackware
10:39 < azarus> uxbal: depends
10:40 < azarus> i don't really know "automated" distros
10:41 < cloudbud> how can i debug a bash script
10:41 < rajrajraj> I have a service running on port 8000 but its not accessible from outside
10:41 < rajrajraj> Its an http server
10:42 < jim> cloudbud, you can print stuff, like the values of variables. what you print and where/when, has the purpose to show you wnat's going on in the script.
10:43 < cloudbud> ok
10:43 < peetaur2> cloudbud: first try bash -x...then since it's a huge mess of useless output, try some echos in there... and since that'll take long and be annoying, instead rewrite it in python
10:43 < cloudbud> what is the difference between set -x and set +x
10:43 < jim> cloudbud, what you choose the print is based on your curiousity and what piece you're trying to debug at the time
10:44 < livingdaylight> Looking for VPN. I see NordVPN and Express VPN consistently rated top but not clear why and don't know how to choose a VPN. Any preference /recommendation for VPN, here?
10:44 < peetaur2> for anything that's huge enough that I need to debug it more than just some echos in the suspected problem area, I just use python...saves so much time even if you need a bunch of Popen and such
10:44 < peetaur2> cloudbud: "help set" will give you the help... help is a builtin to give you help on builtins
10:45 < peetaur2> or try finding the relevant part of the enormous man page ....  man bash
10:45 < jim> cloudbud, if you could say more about what you're trying to debug, that might help to give more specific advice
10:45 < peetaur2> heh the man page is 372k lines
10:45 < deadpixy> livingdaylight, those two are top rated based on "no logging for users" and for multiple servers on various countries. Best VPN is always based on what you want from it.
10:46 < azarus> peetaur2: oh god, really?
10:46 < peetaur2> oh I read that way wrong suddenly now it's 3442 lines
10:46 < azarus> seems much more likely ;)
10:46  * peetaur2 wonders wtf was the first number
10:47 < jim> the info page for bash is much better, it might be the same length, but I've always fount the writing easier to read
10:47 < livingdaylight> deadpixy: I would have thought everyone wants the same thing from a VPN; that's why we look for a VPN? reliable, smooth streaming (no buffering issues) to any site from anywhere in teh World
10:47 < peetaur2> somehow I got less (within man) to show 372xxx/372xxx after scrolling to the bottom...can't reproduce it. oh well.
10:48 < deadpixy> yeh, sure. But someone else could say that I don't give a f* about logging etc
10:48 < peetaur2> you don't care about logging until you do...then it's a nightmare
10:48 < peetaur2> unless you want privacy and then it's just a cost you have to pay
10:48 < deadpixy> hehe indeed
10:49 < deadpixy> I think between the two of them, Express VPN has better rating in general regarding the speed
10:50 < deadpixy> But right now NordVPN has better sales (for two or three years)
10:51 < sandman13> is it a good idea to put both backend, and load balancer on the same server. No containers, but two services sharing same machine
10:51 < jim> cloudbud, you still here?
10:51 < cloudbud> jim : yes
10:52 < cloudbud> i was doing some google
10:52 < jim> what is it you're trying to debug?
10:54 < jim> cloudbud, ^^
10:54 < cloudbud> jim : shell script
10:54 < jim> ok
10:55 < jim> what can you say about what it's doing?
10:55 < jim> I notice you're not saying much about it... is it because you want to debug it yourself? or?
10:56 < jim> cloudbud, ^^
10:56 < cloudbud> yes jim
10:57 < jim> ok... good luck :)
10:59 < jim> (but note, generally when you ask for help, you're gonna get a lot of folks paying attention... I'd like to request that when you want to deal with most (or all) of it yourself, could you let us know? then there doesn't have to be so much unnecessary attention
10:59 < jim> )
11:23 < G3nka1> Somehow my Hyper-v is not turning on, I have tried everything on internet to fix it. My question is there a way to run docker on a vm? since the software I want to use is a docker image.
11:24 < learningc> What is the number after the command when I do man? example open(2)
11:25 < sauvin> learningc: man 2 open
11:25 < jim> section number (see: man man)
11:31 < learningc> I see.
11:31 < learningc> How can I list all keywords in section 2?
11:34 < jim> ls /usr/share/man/man2 maybe
11:36 < jim> yeah, that would give you the man page files in section 2
11:48 < taaperotassu> I tried to edit crontab by $crontab -e and output is -> crontabs/minime/: fdopen: Permission denied
11:49 < taaperotassu> earlier $ sudo dpkg-reconfigure cron  fixed the problem but this time I get: "update-rc.d: warning: start and stop actions are no longer supported; falling back to defaults" and "update-rc.d: warning: stop runlevel arguments (1) do not match cron Default-Stop values (none)"
11:56 < kubast2_> How can I mount squashfs as rootfs from cmdline or I just mount partition it's at with /etc/fstab
11:56 < kubast2_> And then mount squashfs as root through fstab?
11:59 < taaperotassu> seems like this happens only on my tmux pane :o
12:01 < ice9> i'm trying to dd image to flash drive to it's first partition /dev/sdb1, however it doesn't boot; but when i write to /dev/sdb it boots, why is that?
12:02 < wizzi> Do you wish to activate the module now? (y/n)y          insmod: ERROR: could not insert module 8812au.ko: File exists
12:02 < wizzi> any solution ?
12:02 < wizzi> when i try to install wifi adapter rtl8821au
12:02 < MrElendig> ice9: because the image containd a partition table etc and was made to be written to the disk itself
12:02 < MrElendig> wizzi: install it how?
12:03 < wizzi> ./install.sh
12:03 < MrElendig> never use that directly
12:03 < MrElendig> use whatever build system your distro has
12:03 < wizzi> how can i install it ?
12:03 < MrElendig> it is not unlikely that someone have packaged it for your distro either
12:05 < MrElendig> which distro is this?
12:05 < wizzi> MrElendig: how is that?
12:05 < wizzi> Centos 7
12:05 < MrElendig> my condolances
12:05 < azarus> condolences*
12:05 < azarus> (sorry)
12:05 < MrElendig> there
12:05 < wizzi> why ?
12:05 < MrElendig> there is a .rpm floating around for it though
12:06 < MrElendig> that uses dkms
12:06 < wizzi> MrElendig: can you clear ?
12:06 < MrElendig> where did that install.sh come from anyway?
12:06 < MrElendig> you do know what a .rpm is?
12:07 < wizzi> yeah
12:07 < MrElendig> hmm, the 8821au drive has no install.sh in the repo
12:07 < wizzi> dkms ?
12:07 < MrElendig> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Kernel_Module_Support
12:08 < wizzi> install.sh from company support
12:09 < MrElendig> should talk to them about that
12:09 < MrElendig> either the module didn't build, or they didn't depmod
12:09 < MrElendig> also, sure that is the right driver anyway? 8812 and 8821 are not the same chip
12:10 < wizzi> it's 8821au
12:10 < wizzi> on the cd drive and he sent me another drivers to try
12:11 < wizzi> MrElendig: what should i do now ?
12:12 < MrElendig> personally I would grab a package for it
12:12 < MrElendig> but see if it actually built the module at all
12:12 < MrElendig> if it did, see where it put it
12:13 < seehrum> hi
12:13  * MrElendig wonders why the company would give you some random script to run as root instead of just putting a rpm on their update server.....
12:14 < wizzi> how can i check it ?
12:14 < MrElendig> man find
12:14 < MrElendig> or locate
12:14 < MrElendig> find .... -name 8812au.ko
12:14 < MrElendig> "*8812au.ko*" even
12:15 < MrElendig> maybe it compressed it but the script is trying to insmod without .gz
12:15 < wizzi> i found it
12:16 < wizzi> but just on installing folder
12:16 < MrElendig> dump it in extramodules and then depmod
12:16 < MrElendig> but really should use dkms
12:16 < MrElendig> this way it will break on every kernel update
12:18 < wizzi> this way "./install.sh"
12:21 < Dumbo> Hi, I was trying to install git using `sudo apt-get install git` but after confermation the process stops at 0% connecting to in.archive.ubuntu.com
12:21 < Dumbo> How can I fix this ?
12:21 < MrElendig> Dumbo: try a different mirror?
12:21 < Dumbo> @MrElendig how can I do that ?
12:22 < MrElendig> ubuntu wiki tells you how to change mirrors
12:23 < peetaur2> Dumbo: here's a potentially dangerous way to try it     cp -i /etc/apt/sources.list{,.bak}; sed -i -r 's/in\.archive/archive/g' /etc/apt/sources.list; apt-get update
12:24 < Dumbo> peetaur2: what will it actually do ? as in why is it dangerous ?
12:24 < pingfloyd> don't get anywhere without being a risk taker
12:24 < adrian_1908> Dumbo: ubuntu server or desktop?
12:24 < wizzi> MrElendig: you condolence me ... is that mean my system fade from it?
12:24 < peetaur2> it ought to back up the file and then in place replace the "in." with nothing (which I think will be us mirrors maybe?), which possibly works and is possibly not the way to do it... and sed in place editing can also empty the file or corrupt it in various cases
12:24  * MrElendig strongly suggests actually reading the docs
12:24 < MrElendig> wizzi: fade?
12:25  * MrElendig have no idea what that means
12:25 < MrElendig> (in that context)
12:25 < peetaur2> oh I think sed has a built in backup thing too.... like   sed -i .bak -r ......
12:25 < adrian_1908> the system, it has faded from it...
12:25 < pingfloyd> peetaur2: potentially dangerous was what I just got done doing
12:25 < Dumbo> peetaur2: are you trying to do this - sudo sed -i 's|http://in.|http://|g' /etc/apt/sources.list
12:26 < MrElendig> should use https
12:26 < wizzi> MrElendig: i didn't find the right word
12:26 < peetaur2> and it's not really that dangerous... you can generate the file again...but in the hands of the inexpereienced, sed -i might get used wrong (like add a * in there? no idea) and it all blows up
12:27 < wizzi> just tell me what should i do and how can i install drivers like this
12:27 < MrElendig> just drop the -i to see what it will do
12:27 < peetaur2> Dumbo: yes except I have assumed urls might not have http..like maybe there is ftp or https in there, or no proto specified
12:27 < pingfloyd> at least you're backing them up first to *.bak counterparts
12:27 < MrElendig> wizzi: is this a work computer?
12:27 < peetaur2> and assumed that nothing else has any "in." in it :)
12:27 < pingfloyd> run and check that command first
12:27 < pingfloyd> then do the sed -i routine
12:27 < adrian_1908> <adrian_1908> Dumbo: ubuntu server or desktop?
12:27 < pingfloyd> then if you screw up with sed, it's no big deal
12:27 < wizzi> yes
12:28 < peetaur2> FYI you can generate with such a  tool https://repogen.simplylinux.ch/
12:28 < MrElendig> wizzi: then let your tech support handle it
12:28 < MrElendig> wizzi: that way you can blame them when/if it breaks down the road :p
12:28 < pingfloyd> tech support is usually even more lost
12:29 < pingfloyd> the sad reality of suits assessing technical abilities
12:29 < Dumbo> peetaur2: can i use git in the end of the command instead of update like cp -i /etc/apt/sources.list{,.bak}; sed -i -r 's/in\.archive/archive/g' /etc/apt/sources.list; apt-get git ?
12:29 < searedvandal> use apt-select to find the fastest mirrors
12:30 < wizzi> MrElendig: but i work at myself x)
12:30 < peetaur2> Dumbo: when you change repos or mirrors, you must update or any other apt-get commands will be using stale data
12:30 < peetaur2> so update first, then install git
12:30 < MrElendig> then I suggest on reading up on dkms and how to create .rpm packages
12:30 < MrElendig> but if you want to do it by hand, copy the module to the correct place and depmod it
12:32 < MrElendig> (/usr)/lib/$(uname -r)/extramodules
12:32 < wizzi> you meant from "install.sh" to rpm package
12:32 < MrElendig> or similar, depending on the distro
12:32 < MrElendig> wizzi: you would not use the install.sh at all
12:32 < MrElendig> those install scripts are usually horrible
12:32 < wizzi> dkms transfer it to rpm ?
12:34 < MrElendig> doesn't sound like you bothered to read the wikipedia page I linked to
12:35 < wizzi> MrElendig: sorry, i'll read it
12:37 < MrElendig> centos probably have a guide somewhere on how to create your own rpms, rhel too but it is probably paywalled
12:37 < MrElendig> the dkms tools from rpm can, sort of, spit out a rpm, but it is not very useful
12:59 < Dumbo> peetaur2: the command doesn't seem to work
12:59 < Dumbo> I mean it updates
12:59 < Dumbo> but still I can't install git
13:39 < catphish> i'm investigating a problem whereby when trying to run ssh commends with a pty, the commands aren't being parsed properly at the ssh server, looks like this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vFkhvw7Gz5/
13:39 < catphish> seems like the command i send is being quoted before being passed to bash, anyone know what might cause that?
13:41 < Raed> catphish: Try it without quotes, and the t after the host: ssh host -t echo hi
13:41 < noudle> is there a safe way to let a chrooted process access /proc/ ? (mainly /proc/self/task)
13:42 < catphish> Raed: same thing happens with: "ssh host -t echo hi"
13:43 < catphish> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/whH3WyZtX6/
13:43 < Raed> catphish: Try adding -vvv and see if it gives you any context as to whats going wrong.
13:43 < catphish> debug1: Sending command: echo hi
13:43 < catphish> no sign of any extra quoting at that stage
13:44 < Raed> catphish: Thats strange.
13:45 < catphish> i've never seem this before, it happens with just one customer's shared hosting server
13:45 < catphish> my guess is they have some kind of middleware protecting what commands can be run, and it mangles it
13:45 < catphish> (but only when a pty is requested"
13:51 < Raed> catphish: If you just ssh in does it let you run the command?
13:53 < noudle> is there a safe way to let a chrooted process access /proc/ ? (mainly /proc/self/task) i dont want the process to be able to read everything that is at /proc/ , just the files it needs for itself (like /proc/self).
13:53 < noudle> so i dont want to do a simple mount of the real /proc/ in the chroot
13:53 < catphish> Raed: yes
13:53 < catphish> even with -t it works fine
13:55 < Raed> catphish: I'd be willing to bet that the hosting provider is deliberately stopping you from doing it.
13:55 < searedvandal> noudle, mount --bind would probably do it. but you will loose some of the benefits of chroot doing so as far as I know
13:55 < catphish> Raed: it doesn't seem like this would serve any purpose to do deliberately :(
13:55 < noudle> searedvandal: thats what i was trying to avoid :/
13:56 < Raed> catphish: Maybe not, but somtimes hosting providers do silly things to "protect" the other clients
13:56 < catphish> Raed: if they meant to do something, the result certainly isn't what they intended :(
13:57 < Raed> catphish: You could try contacting them and asking what the deal is.
13:57 < catphish> have already done so, their first response was "wfm", that was before i realised it only happens when using a pty, no now waiting for their second response
13:58 < catphish> most likely they use some kind of 3rd party hosting software, so may take a while to know whats up
14:00 < catphish> Raed: thanks for looking, hopefully the owner of the server will know
14:02 < Raed> catphish: No problem!
14:19 < diverdude> is it the hardware or the OS which is 32/64 bit?
14:20 < MrElendig> could be either
14:21 < diverdude> can i somehow see if my hardware supports 643 bit?
14:21 < diverdude> 64bit
14:21 < MrElendig> read the manual
14:21 < MrElendig> manual/whitepaper
14:22 < MrElendig> sidenote: unless it is 200 years old then it does
14:22 < zack6849> diverdude: just look up your CPU's architecture lol
14:22 < MrElendig> sometimes the cpu does 64bit but the mobo disables the support
14:23 < MrElendig> but that is not that common
14:24 < MrElendig> diverdude: just go for 64bit, it will yell at you if your hardwarae doesn't support it
14:28 < MindSpark> hey, can someone tell me what ocsinventory-agent does?
14:33 < searedvandal> "Ocsinventory-Agent is an agent for ocsinventory NG"
14:34 < searedvandal> their website probably explains it
14:47 < xhip> hi everyone
14:48 < Pentode> hi
14:49 < xhip> what is really dhcpcd?
14:49 < azarus> xhip: dhcp client/daemon
14:49 < azarus> (only client, whoops)
14:49 < MrElendig> xhip: man dhcpcd
14:49 < MrElendig> it tells you right at the top what it is
14:49 < MrElendig> in the DESCRIPTION section
14:49 < azarus> pffft, man pages, who even needs those!
14:49 < xhip> is that one that is used by /etc/network/interfaces or the wpa_sup..
14:50 < MrElendig> xhip: maybe, no
14:51 < xhip> when I do sudo service dhcpcd restart I get "Failed to start dhcpcd on all interfaces"
14:51 < xhip> "not running dhcpcd because /etc/network/interfaces"
14:51 < MrElendig> that is fine
14:51 < MrElendig> you should not mix dhcpcd and your distro invented network service
14:52 < MrElendig> use one or the other, not both
14:52 < xhip> ok
14:52  * MrElendig smell a giant xyproblem
14:52 < xhip> I'm trying to "ifconfig wlan0 down" without my pc getting stuck
14:52 < xhip> like stop responding
14:52 < xhip> and i think I have multiple dhcp client and is making everything weird
14:53 < xhip> I tried so many /ect/network/interfaces configs and wpa_sup.. config too
14:53 < xhip> also I have dhcpcd and dhcpcd5 :/
14:55 < MrElendig> don't use ifconfig
14:56 < MrElendig> and just undo everything you did and just use a single network manager to manage your network
14:57 < Pentode> ^ good advice
14:58 < xhip> maybe I need to reinstall everything..
14:59 < pingfloyd> xhip: will the system every be on other networks?
14:59 < xhip> I just did sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart and stop responding again
14:59 < pingfloyd> since you mention wlan0, the implication is yes.
14:59 < xhip> @pingfloyd yes I need to setup for multiple wifis
14:59 < pingfloyd> so use network-manager or wicd
15:00 < xhip> @pingfloyd will those automatic config and startup with the system? cool
15:00 < xhip> I'll try it
15:00 < pingfloyd> if the system was going to sit on one network ever, then there would some reason to bother configuring the system through /etc/network/interfaces
15:01 < pingfloyd> nice thing about network-mangler is that it support tui, cli, and gui.
15:01 < pingfloyd> supports*
15:01 < Pentode> mangler, lmao
15:01 < xhip> ok I will just remove everything and only leave "auto wlan0" on /etc/network/interface and then use those
15:01 < pingfloyd> Pentode: that's my nickname for it
15:01 < pingfloyd> Pentode: same with file managers (file manglers).
15:02 < Pentode> aw, i thought it was a slip. would have been better :-D
15:02 < pingfloyd> could be a Freudian slip too
15:02 < xhip> with those managers do I need to leave something on the interface file?
15:02 < xhip> or managers will do all the work?
15:02 < Pentode> yeah that's what i meant. i couldn't remember how to spell it.
15:03 < Pentode> xhip, the manager does everything for you.
15:03 < pingfloyd> xhip: you'll not define the interfaces in /etc/default/networking you're going to have the mangler manage.
15:04 < pingfloyd> you'll likely want CONFIGURE_INTERFACE=no in it
15:05 < xhip> ok thanks for the help, I will try it
15:05 < pingfloyd> packages may take care of that for you depending on your dist.
15:05 < pingfloyd> you're welcome
15:06 < MrElendig> xhip: which distro is this btw?
15:07 < xhip> debian
15:07 < MrElendig> version?
15:07 < xhip> just a sec is rebooting
15:08 < xhip> 4.14.50+
15:08 < azarus> xhip: that's not the debian version
15:08 < pingfloyd> xhip: lsb_release -a
15:08 < xhip> 9.4
15:08 < pingfloyd> ok so stretch (currently stable)
15:09 < xhip> yes :)
15:09 < pingfloyd> that's what I'm running also
15:21 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Hmmm.. I kinda agree with lightdm's stance on that not reading the profile, which only your actual shell should be doing. .xsession is what it reads and should be reading.
15:22 < pingfloyd> Psi-Jack: that's their thinking, but it is still a break from tradition
15:22 < Psi-Jack> Actually, display managers sourcing profile, originally did the breaking.
15:22 < Psi-Jack> They didn't start that way. :)
15:23 < pingfloyd> at a certain point, one should avoid breaking away from the defacto standard in spite of it being less correct.
15:23 < vancha> hey there guru's, anyone have any experience with setting proxies?
15:23 < pingfloyd> most defacto standards are rarely the most ideal anyway
15:23 < Psi-Jack> Last night, though I was horrendously tired, couldn't much hold a discussion on it, when you mentioned lightdm doesn't source in the profile, I was confused... Confused as to why it would even..
15:23 < vancha> i need to test something, and export http_proxy doesn't seem to do anything
15:23 < MrElendig> xhip: should start using systemctl instead of rc.d then
15:24 < xhip> @MrElendig rc.d?
15:24 < Psi-Jack> aka lsb-init, /etc/init.d/*
15:25 < xhip> oh ok thanks
15:25 < MrElendig> including the `service` wrapper
15:26 < pingfloyd> Psi-Jack: you can do an ugly workaround though and put . ~/.profile in the .xsessionrc
15:26 < xhip> the thing is I was able to connect with my old connect but is was weird everything I reboot it or wanted to restart the wlan0 the system froze.. thats why I want to try another wait to fixe it
15:26 < Psi-Jack> Sure. But... Why? ;)
15:26 < Psi-Jack> When I open my x-terminal, my shell is setup just right.
15:26 < pingfloyd> because PATH for example really should be set at login
15:27 < pingfloyd> by them doing not sourcing .profile, you now have maintaining two files where normally one file covered it.
15:27 < pingfloyd> unless you have it source it
15:28 < pingfloyd> like when don't you want your setting in .profile to be in shell sessions within your DE?
15:28 < GNU\colossus> there's ~/.pam_environment, too
15:28 < Psi-Jack> heh, there... is... that.... sure....
15:28 < Psi-Jack> There's some issues with pam_env, though. LOL
15:29 < pingfloyd> a shell login normally never happens if you're logging in through DM
15:29 < GNU\colossus> your env config won't be influenced by a turing-complete language that way, but for setting up PATH, it should be plenty
15:29 < pingfloyd> unless you do something like bash -l within your X session
15:29 < Psi-Jack> GNU\colossus: It's really not. There's known issues with pam_env which duplicates unnecessarily, I used to set PATH in there, but... It duplicated...
15:30 < GNU\colossus> my terminal emulator is configured to spawn login shells
15:30 < GNU\colossus> Psi-Jack, yeah, ok, so? no biggie. will still work.
15:30 < Lope> I'm running krusader on KDE, it has no File Edit etc... menu. Any ideas?
15:30 < pingfloyd> GNU\colossus: what's turing complete language got to do with it?
15:30 < GNU\colossus> pingfloyd, nothing. pam_env just arguably less flexible than having your shell ready to set up environment variables
15:31 < Psi-Jack> Lope: tap alt?
15:31 < pingfloyd> GNU\colossus: I agree
15:31 < pingfloyd> GNU\colossus: rather config through shell and be done with it everywhere
15:31 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm
15:32 < Psi-Jack> Heh, in Solus, all my .profile does is source the system-wide /usr/share/defaults/etc/profile
15:33 < azarus> in Alpine, my .profile sources .mkshrc
15:33 < Lope> Psi-Jack, Tried tapping alt, ctrl M, Ctrl+shift+j, F11, ctrl+F11
15:33 < azarus> even tough it's completely unnecessary
15:33  * azarus deletes it
15:33 < Psi-Jack> Course, the system-wide profile, sources /usr/share/defaults/etc/profile.d/*.sh, and then /etc/profile.d/*.sh (if it exists).
15:35 < pingfloyd> I'm not a big fan of split configs
15:36 < Psi-Jack> Well, Solus maintains a stronger standard that packages' profile.d stuff, belongs to /usr/share/defaults/etc/profile.d/*, where system-wide configs managed by a human belongs in /etc/profile.d/*. This I can greatly appreciate.
15:37 < pingfloyd> you could argue that human managed actually belongs under /usr/local/etc
15:37 < Psi-Jack> No... LOL
15:38 < pingfloyd> that's how the FHS sees it
15:38 < azarus> reminds me of *BSD
15:38 < Psi-Jack> azarus: Exactly. :(
15:38 < azarus> well, it's not bad
15:38 < Psi-Jack> Except they use it wrong, too. :p
15:38 < azarus> pacakge-stuff goes to /usr/local. that's OK.
15:39 < azarus> clear separation between base system and the packages.
15:53 < MrElendig> /usr/local is for user provided software etc, not hand edited configs
15:54 < Psi-Jack> Well, THAT was odd. LOL
15:55 < Psi-Jack> I sourced my .profile frm .xsession, and it took a lot longer to login, and then after it was all logged in, while I was typing this very message, it logged me back out and made me login again fresh.
15:56 < searedvandal> according to FHS the /usr/local/etc directory is for "Host-specific system configuration for local binaries"
15:56 < searedvandal> but it can be a symlink to /etc/local
15:56 < quxgyver> Torvalds' blessing upon you.
15:56 < morfin60> hello
15:57 < MrElendig> /usr/local/etc Configuration files associated with locally installed programs.
15:57 < MrElendig> but /etc should be used to override those defaults
15:57 < morfin60> what's easiest way to move Linux from one drive to another(sizes are different)?
15:57 < triceratux> hrm distrowatch & the mint servers think 19.0 is out of beta right down to the xfce image. nobody else is publicising it tho ftp://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/linuxmint.com/stable/19/
15:57 < MrElendig> unless you want a giant mess
15:58 < quxgyver> Stallman's blessings to one and all.
15:58 < quxgyver> May Stallman's light shine on your path.
15:58 < Psi-Jack> ...
15:59 < morfin60> anybody?
15:59 < triceratux> morfin60: linux is a kernel. what distro ?
16:00 < morfin60> arch, but i don't think it matters
16:00 < Psi-Jack> morfin60: "easiest" is subjective and opinionated. :)
16:01 < post-factum> morfin60: rsync
16:01 < post-factum> morfin60: +reinstalling the bootloader
16:01 < Psi-Jack> morfin60: Cleanest, however, boot up a rescue disc, or archiso, setup the new disk in /mnt/*, rsync. reinstall bootloader.
16:01 < post-factum> morfin60: +editing fstab if necessary
16:02 < morfin60> well, i've got three partitions: boot, swap and /
16:02 < Psi-Jack> So, /mnt/old/, and /mnt/new/
16:05 < Pusteblume> what advantage has "rsync" in that task when you could "cp -a" instead?
16:05 < Psi-Jack> rsync can be stopped, restarted and continue where it left off.
16:05 < Psi-Jack> And of course, do remote things, too. :)
16:06 < post-factum> and --progress
16:08 < Raed> rsync also does hashing, to verify the information was copied over properly.
16:09 < morfin60> i forgot does rsync keep permissions
16:09 < Psi-Jack> It can yes.
16:10 < morfin60> soon i will test my brand new SSD muhahaha
16:14 < Psi-Jack> Are you sure that is wise?
16:15 < mercxry> morfin60: Just don't mount swap partition on a SSD
16:15 < Psi-Jack> Why not?
16:16 < pagios> Hello, does anyone know of any opensource DNS load balancer? Idea is to have a certain domain.com that resolves everytime to a different origin ip address thus load balancing the traffic. appreciaite if someone can point me to a good opensource project i can rely on
16:16 < mercxry> Psi-Jack: https://askubuntu.com/questions/652337/why-no-swap-partitions-on-ssd-drives
16:16 < Psi-Jack> If it's a good SSD, it will work just fine, and be nice and fast, when it actually gets used. and proper tuning of swappiness along with abundance of RAm and a good distro (like Solus) that somehow magically works better in memory consumption than any other distro. You'd barely even touch swap at all.
16:17 < Psi-Jack> Yeah.. askubuntu.com.. Great source of useless information. :p
16:17 < azarus> I never touched swap in 3 years
16:18 < mercxry> Do as you want, a SWAP on a SSD reduces the duration in time
16:18 < Psi-Jack> While it may've been true in the past... Most modern-day good SSDs do firmware level wear leveling, which by itself is a great thing. And yes, every write to the disk does slowly but surely tick away at the SSD data cells which are literally blasting surges of electricity through barriers to "store data"
16:19 < Psi-Jack> mercxry: I've had swap on my OCZ Agility 3 for 6 years. Still running. :)
16:19 < post-factum> mercxry: false
16:19 < post-factum> mercxry: if you use swap that actively, spend your money on more ram instead of ssd
16:19 < Psi-Jack> ^
16:19 < azarus> if you need swap, you're doing something wrong
16:20 < azarus> either you're using terrible applications, or are on a terrible machine
16:20 < post-factum> pagios: round-robin resolving? i saw some article regarding considering it harmful
16:20 < mercxry> Nice, I learnt something new, thanks :)
16:20 < Psi-Jack> heh heh
16:20 < Psi-Jack> mercxry: I don't like misinformation. I'll gladly update anyone's lack in knowledge, with better knowledge. :)
16:21 < pagios> post-factum, ?
16:21 < pagios> why
16:21 < mercxry> Psi-Jack: Excellent
16:21 < Psi-Jack> post-factum: Yeah, that makes little sense. I mean, granted, RRDNS isn't really "load balancing", nor should it be used as such, but RRDNS has its place.
16:21 < pingfloyd> azarus: that's not entirely true
16:22 < Psi-Jack> Or am I misunderstanding "round-robin resolving" as RRDNS? ;)
16:22 < azarus> pingfloyd: how so?
16:22 < Psi-Jack> Hmm.. Isn't the default kernel vm.swappiness like 60?
16:23 < pingfloyd> azarus: you should always have swap enabled
16:23 < azarus> why'
16:23 < azarus> ?*
16:23 < triceratux> well im running mint 19.0 xfce & its not touching swap on a machine with 2G real MemTotal:        1968908 kB MemFree:           96816 kB SwapTotal:       5245216 kB SwapFree:        5245216 kB
16:23 < pingfloyd> azarus: because it's a waste of ram to keep it filled with pages that are never accessed again
16:23 < azarus> there is no waste of RAM!
16:24 < azarus> because if you're running out of RAM, just invest in some more
16:24 < post-factum> pagios: the issue is that the auth dns server just gives multiple A records, and then caching dns resolver is free to re-arrange that anytime
16:24 < pingfloyd> when memory pressure rises, the kernel is swap rarely used pages out
16:25 < pingfloyd> you're better off using that ram for cache and pages that get accessed frequently, which is what the kernel is designed to do.
16:25 < azarus> yes. and if you have high memory pressure, just have a good amount of RAM.
16:25 < post-factum> pagios: use anycast and/or CDNs, that's the trend nowadays iiuc
16:25 < pingfloyd> azarus: it's not going to swap anyway until the swappiness threshold is reached
16:26 < pingfloyd> it is completely pointless to disable swap with linux
16:26 < Psi-Jack> Huh, yeah, vm.swappiness's default is indeed 60. Solus changes that to 10. heh
16:26 < pingfloyd> at best
16:27 < post-factum> i set it to 100
16:27 < post-factum> and am still alive
16:27 < pingfloyd> at worst, when you have a high memory load, you're now sacrificing cache for useless pages
16:27 < pingfloyd> post-factum: I set it to 90
16:28 < post-factum> why would i?
16:28 < Psi-Jack> Heh. It's kind of funny though. I have my swap on my work computer, on my NVMe.
16:28 < azarus> bike-shedding over almost non-existant problems
16:28 < azarus> yay
16:29 < pingfloyd> azarus: nonexistent problem is you have more ram than you now what to do with, yes.
16:30 < pingfloyd> can always throw money at any problem.
16:30 < pingfloyd> s/is/if
16:30 < post-factum> https://chrisdown.name/2018/01/02/in-defence-of-swap.html
16:33 < pingfloyd> right here is the core of it "Swap is primarily a mechanism for equality of reclamation, not for emergency “extra memory”. Swap is not what makes your application slow – entering overall memory contention is what makes your application slow."
16:33 < jack_rip_vim> hi pingfloyd
16:33 < pingfloyd> hi jack_rip_vim
16:34 < jack_rip_vim> swap isn't always needed
16:35 < Ben64> i don't have swap anymore
16:35 < Ben64> doin' fine
16:35 < jack_rip_vim> yeah
16:36 < jack_rip_vim> since everyone has big RAM space
16:36 < Psi-Jack> Everyone?
16:36 < post-factum> 640k is enough for everyone, so yeah, everyone
16:36 < Psi-Jack> LOL
16:36 < Psi-Jack> post-factum: ^5
16:36 < jack_rip_vim> OK, not everyone, I have an old computer that needs swap
16:36 < Ben64> 32GB ram, 9GB used, 18GB buffer/cache
16:37 < granix> jack_rip_vim, my smallest vps has 256MB RAM. not exactly _big_ :-)
16:37 < Psi-Jack> Unless you have 256GB of RAM or more, you don't have enough RAM. :p
16:37 < ShotokanZH> hi evryone
16:37 < ShotokanZH> i've made an application that uses a sqlite database to save the users and (encrypted) password but now my client is asking me to let the users in that database login via SSH to a restricted shell
16:37 < jack_rip_vim> my old old computer just has 64mb ram
16:37 < pingfloyd> the common misnomer is that swap is to save you from oom killer.  When things get that dire, you've lost either way.  Take your pick from there.  Massive thrashing, or processes being killed off.
16:38 < ShotokanZH> the question is: can i validate the login via SSH using an external command instead of checking the local (system) users?
16:38 < Psi-Jack> ShotokanZH: That's what PAM does.
16:38 < ShotokanZH> Psi-Jack, do you have any small reference for that? :)
16:38 < Psi-Jack> Hmm.. /etc/pam.d
16:38 < post-factum> http://www.linux-pam.org/Linux-PAM-html/Linux-PAM_MWG.html
16:39 < post-factum> https://github.com/beatgammit/simple-pam
16:39 < post-factum> etc
16:39 < Psi-Jack> Aka, google some research in. :)
16:39 < jack_rip_vim> does anyone know yocto project?
16:39 < Psi-Jack> I've only heard how horrible it is.
16:40 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: ?
16:40 < Psi-Jack> That is a question mark.
16:41 < jack_rip_vim> yocto project is a project that uses to create an arm os distro.
16:41 < Psi-Jack> A fine statement.
16:42 < jack_rip_vim> I don't if that is a good tool for customing a distro for my NXP board
16:42 < ShotokanZH> post-factum, thanx
16:42 < jack_rip_vim> don't know*
16:43 < Psi-Jack> TIAS. Only way to know.
16:43 < Psi-Jack> I've only ever heard bad things about yocto, so that's all I have.
16:43 < qswz> I don't get what snap is or do
16:43 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: OK
16:44 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: maybe I should keep searching, see if I can find a good tool
16:44 < Psi-Jack> qswz: It's software, packaged in a way that can be used on multiple different distros, and per-app security sandboxing.
16:44 < qswz> Psi-Jack: ah ok
16:44 < qswz> that looks recent
16:44 < qswz> apt's future
16:44 < Psi-Jack> I prefer flatpak more.
16:45 < jack_rip_vim> flatpak?
16:45 < Psi-Jack> Yes, flatpak.
16:45 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: Let me google
16:45 < Psi-Jack> You catch on quick. :)
16:45 < jack_rip_vim> :)
16:45 < jack_rip_vim> thanks
16:47 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: seem like a good sandbox
16:47 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: may have a try with it
16:48 < Psi-Jack> snapd is Canonical nonsense, while flatpak is community driven and open.
16:48 < qswz> yea it has even more stars on github
16:48 < AmR|EiSa> Can I make xgettext scan micros ?
16:48 < qswz> not that metric matters tho
16:49 < Psi-Jack> "though"
16:51 < Psi-Jack> AppImage is pretty nice as well. No actual sandboxing of its own access to the system, but the application itself is near fully contained in a distributable bundle that has most if not all what it needs to run, and that bundle itself is read-only and "mounted" on run. And works with XDG well, it even offers to install a .desktop menu item for you.
16:52 < Psi-Jack> Though, AppImage does lack auto-updatability.
16:52 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: .desktop like idesk things
16:53 < Psi-Jack> Eh?
16:53 < YADW> Hello! I am currently doing some crazy experment trying to port a linux OS on a nintendo wii system. I'm having a few issues setting up X11, can anyone help please?
16:53 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: idesk takes .desktop dir as it default desktop dir
16:53 < Psi-Jack> YADW: Unsupported.
16:54 < AmR|EiSa> Any help ?
16:54 < YADW> Psi-Jack You mean Linux? Funny. I'm writing this very message from the Wii, right now lol.
16:54 < Psi-Jack> YADW: No, I mean that subject is not supported /here/.
16:55 < YADW> Uh, sorry. Can I ask where you'd suggest I should go?
16:55 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
16:57 < post-factum> YADW: i think if you are more specific about your issue, Psi-Jack is less rude
16:57 < Psi-Jack> Nope. Nintendo reverse engineering is specifically listed off-topic.
16:57 < YADW> I can't quite see the topic, since I'm on a cli irc client.
16:57 < jack_rip_vim> AmR|EiSa: can you share your problems again? I didn't see it
16:57 < Psi-Jack> Just do /topic
16:58 < Psi-Jack> And it's a TUI IRC client, CLI would be horrible. :p
16:58 < post-factum> ha indeed https://freenode.linux.community/channel-rules/
16:58 < post-factum> that's silly, but understandable
16:58 < ldlework> Psi-Jack: heh
16:58 < ldlework> edirc
16:59 < AmR|EiSa> Can I make xgettext scan micros ?
16:59 < YADW> I'll be more aware next time, I'm sorry.
16:59 < Psi-Jack> AmR|EiSa: I suggest you ask a question that actually makes sense.
16:59 < jack_rip_vim> AmR|EiSa: micros?
16:59 < qswz> less xy'y
17:00 < Psi-Jack> YADW: All good. And good luck with that. Personally I think it's a waste of good hardware what you're doing, but hey. :)
17:00 < AmR|EiSa> I think that can be done with --keyword I Use c micro USE_TR()
17:01 < qswz> macro?
17:01 < jack_rip_vim> AmR|EiSa: you may want to have a try
17:01 < AmR|EiSa> OK
17:02 < YADW> Psi-Jack, why's that? The only thing I'd be wasting is my own time, the hardware will be fine. See ya.
17:02 < jack_rip_vim> YADW logins as root
17:02 < Psi-Jack> I noticed that too. :p
17:02 < jack_rip_vim> YADW may use arch or gentoo
17:03 < Psi-Jack> Nah, he was on his Wii. ;p
17:03 < jack_rip_vim> lol
17:04 < Psi-Jack> Basically on some very badly hacked up PPC Linux thing.
17:04 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: yeah
17:06 < Psi-Jack> Heh, bikeshedding, a new one I never heard of before. Heard of yak shaving though. LOL
17:07 < pingfloyd> I don't think discussion of linux swap is bikeshedding considering this is ##linux
17:08 < Psi-Jack> Agreed.
17:08 < pingfloyd> and there seems to be a lot of people with misnomers about it
17:08 < Psi-Jack> But, it's becoming the "new" standard... Right? <);)
17:09  * jack_rip_vim thinks he has a bad nick
17:09 < pingfloyd> anyway, for reference here's the complicated details https://www.kernel.org/doc/gorman/html/understand/understand014.html
17:10 < pingfloyd> Psi-Jack: hell, seems like most people don't understand what virtual memory means these days
17:10 < pingfloyd> they think it is swap
17:10 < Psi-Jack> Yep. I've asked that many times, and most people immediately answer swap.
17:10 < pingfloyd> you can thank Microsoft for many of the misnomers
17:10 < Psi-Jack> Even in Windows, "virtual memory" is not actually swap, just part of it.
17:11 < pingfloyd> with their made up terminology and butchering of jargon
17:11 < Psi-Jack> More just the UI end users see labeled it.
17:11 < revel> I think I recall them referring to "plug a USB stick in and use it for extra RAM" as "virtual memory"
17:11 < jack_rip_vim> swap is a tech that uses disk space as part of virtual memory
17:12 < revel> I have no idea why they thought that would be a great thing to have.
17:12 < ntd> one of the reasons why swap got a bad rep was the thought of having mem written do disk (forensics). luckily fde can help in that regard
17:12 < pingfloyd> "you need to turn off virtual memory"
17:12 < revel> lol
17:12 < pingfloyd> that ones is a riot
17:12 < Psi-Jack> Heh
17:12 < Psi-Jack> Oh no! Where'd my RAMs go?!? ;)
17:12  * revel RAMs Psi-Jack
17:13 < Psi-Jack> Wait a sec... Are you male or female, revel?
17:13 < xoxo> anyone install linux on a surface book 2?
17:13 < revel> Yeah.
17:13 < Lope> I've got /foobar which is mounted and stuff is using it. Then I ran `mount -o rbind /foobar /foo` Now I want to `umount /foo` (which nothing is using at that path) but it won't let me because stuff is using /foobar. Any ideas?
17:13 < jack_rip_vim> at early time of syste, memory is limited. so swap is import for those system.
17:13 < Psi-Jack> Yeah? So both? Same time? LOL
17:13 < revel> No, either/or.
17:13 < jack_rip_vim> system*
17:13 < revel> You didn't say "and", you said "or"
17:13 < xoxo> revel: was that yes for me?
17:13 < revel> I could've said "yes" if it was both as well though.
17:13 < Lope> xoxo, I've installed ubuntu 18.04 on Ms Surface Pro 2.
17:14 < revel> xoxo: Nope.
17:14 < jack_rip_vim> Lope: lsblk can show up the mount point
17:14 < Lope> xoxo, gnome 3's touch support for surface pro 2 is dodgy.
17:14 < Lope> xoxo, I'm still going to try other DE's.
17:14 < xoxo> Lope: im trying to boot from my USB, i go to advanced options and select boot from usb device, but, it doesnt boot my manjaro
17:14 < Psi-Jack> Lope: Stop running stuff that's using it. Simple as that.
17:15 < revel> xoxo: Disabled SecureBoot, right...?
17:15 < xoxo> revel: i disabled it and i just got a lock screen and had to enter a bitlocker code to get back into windows
17:15 < Lope> xoxo, Check surfacelinux reddit search for Lope, I made a few posts explaining all of the do's and don'ts of what works and what doesn't work for booting linux on Surface Pro 2.
17:15 < Metallkd> xoxo there was a HN thread earlier where someone said it was working on the Book 2, including the touch screen
17:15 < xoxo> one more question, is wine the only option for running windows exe on linux
17:16 < xoxo> Metallkd: link please
17:16 < Psi-Jack> xoxo: And I wouldn't recommend Manjaro. it's got more problems than hairs on yak.
17:16 < Metallkd> xoxo I'll see if I can track it down
17:16 < xoxo> Psi-jack: what do u recommend
17:16 < xoxo> Psi-jack: ubuntui?
17:16 < pingfloyd> xoxo: you still have to tell it to boot off the usb
17:16 < Psi-Jack> u isn't there to recommend things at this time. Please come back and try again later when u is here.
17:16 < pingfloyd> xoxo: should be a key you hit on the post to select what to boot
17:16 < Lope> xoxo, surface pro is UEFI only device. It doesn't handle any MBR booting stuff, and it expects you to leave Windows's GPT EFI partitions exactly as they were created for it to be able to boot. You can of course delete windows, and I've done that.
17:16 < revel> xoxo: Wine is pretty much your only option, yes, aside from a VM.
17:17 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: lol
17:17 < xoxo> ok ok
17:17  * xoxo loves this channel 
17:17 < Lope> xoxo, make sure that the surface book (whatever that is) actually has a x86_64 CPU. The Surface Pro 2 definitely does.
17:17 < xoxo> Lope: im using a Surface Book 2
17:17 < xoxo> Lope: gtx 1060 etc
17:17 < revel> There's that Crossover thingy, but it's just Wine with commercial support.
17:18 < xoxo> pingfloyd: nope, no key
17:18 < Lope> xoxo, ubuntu 16.04 and 18.04 worked well on my surface pro 2. But Debian 8 hardly worked at all.
17:18 < Lope> xoxo, so I suggest you start with ubuntu. If you get that working, try other distros.
17:18 < xoxo> alright
17:18 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm, wow, crossover is actually still a thing?
17:18 < pingfloyd> xoxo: this is going to come down the idiosyncracies of the surface pro 2
17:18 < Lope> xoxo, wow, sounds awesome (gtx)
17:18 < revel> I'm not 100% sure, actually.
17:18 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: cross then over~
17:18 < revel> @ P-J
17:19 < pingfloyd> xoxo: you have to investigate how they expect to to be able to boot off a usb stick
17:19 < Psi-Jack> revel: I just looked at their website.
17:19 < mini0n> sup
17:19 < Psi-Jack> They still exist.
17:19 < mini0n> yo
17:19 < pingfloyd> my guess is it is extra hoops to jump through, after all it is a proprietary hardware.
17:19 < revel> Keeping a website up doesn't cost much :P
17:20 < Lope> xoxo, my surface pro 2 has a intel 4400 graphics. Which is technically enough to run Overwatch. But I installed W8 on it and overwatch, it runs okay for a few seconds, but then it goes into thermal throttling. Anything I do on it makes it go into thermal throttling after a few seconds. So I've accepted that it's never going to be able to play any demanding games. However red eclipse runs on it in linux, quite nicely.
17:20 < Psi-Jack> King_Nothing: I see you like Metallica.
17:20 < King_Nothing> yea
17:20 < King_Nothing> 'tallika
17:20 < Lope> xoxo, the problem with surface pro is it's next to impossible to open it and clean out the dust and replace the thermal compound etc.
17:20 < Lope> xoxo, so I wouldn't get too attached to the idea of anything high performance on it.
17:20 < King_Nothing> that ms shit?
17:21 < Lope> King_Nothing, surface pro 2 is microsoft yeah.
17:21 < King_Nothing> they cant even come up with a name
17:21 < jack_rip_vim> King_Nothing: isn't ms shit run linux?
17:21 < Psi-Jack> King_Nothing: Mind the language, please.
17:21 < King_Nothing> all they have ever done is duped IBM and naiiive fanny's
17:21 < pingfloyd> Metallica are sell outs
17:21 < Lope> King_Nothing, i bought it as a "linux on a tablet" experiment. It's not good for much though.
17:21 < King_Nothing> oh ok
17:21 < Lope> the form factor sucks. It sucks as a tablet, and sucks as a laptop.
17:21 < Lope> It's half as good as both.
17:21 < Psi-Jack> heh
17:21 < King_Nothing> heh
17:21 < revel> Linux on a tablet? Better buy something straight straight from MS then :D
17:22 < squirrel> why does linux treat ip address 0 as loopback? i can listen on 0 and 127.1 and connect to both from the same machine
17:22 < Psi-Jack> Microsoft Surface Pro. Pay more, do less.
17:22 < Lope> and it's heavy as shit compared to a normal tablet.
17:22 < Metallkd> xoxo see this subthread for some stuff on running Linux on the surface book 2 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17408733
17:22 < Lope> I've got a Samsung galaxy N8000. Weighs about 300g. The surface pro 2: 1100g
17:22 < pingfloyd> tablets are a toy
17:22 < pantato> sooo i installed some kde program a long long time ago and ever since my boot screen has been that stupid kubuntu login...i just tried apt-get --purge remove kubuntu* and rebooted. Now it wont boot and Im stuck in emergency mode logged in as root. Pls help
17:22 < pingfloyd> where I'd need a tablet, a phone covers
17:22 < Metallkd> xoxo there's also https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Microsoft_Surface_Book_2
17:23 < Psi-Jack> My iPad Pro 10" does well as a tablet and portable computer. :)
17:23 < qswz> How is Canonical considered?
17:23 < xoxo> Metallkd: https://github.com/jakeday/linux-surface
17:23 < xoxo> that's pretty kool
17:23 < jack_rip_vim> pantato: back up things, then reinstall os
17:23 < pingfloyd> those tablets are pretty much oversized smart phones without phone
17:23 < Lope> xoxo, the jakeday guy actually maintains the repo. Some stuff is mainline already, for the Surface Pro 2 for example.
17:24 < pantato> jack_rip_vim: seriously? its that bad?
17:24 < Psi-Jack> pantato: Please also use standard English.
17:24 < xoxo> damn
17:24 < jack_rip_vim> pantato: yeah
17:24 < xoxo> 4 hour download for ubuntu =/
17:24 < Lope> xoxo, last time I tried (about a year ago) Mini displayport on my Surface Pro 2 didn't work. But I've not tried again recently.
17:24 < jack_rip_vim> xoxo: try torrent download
17:24 < xoxo> jack_rip_vim: k
17:25 < pantato> Psi-Jack: im not going to go to another screen on my android to satisfy your autism
17:26 < Psi-Jack> pantato: It actually is channel rules, so yes, yes you will.
17:26 < pantato> ''''''''''''
17:26 < pantato> there thats all ur getting
17:26 < Psi-Jack> "your"
17:26 < jack_rip_vim> lol
17:27 < pantato> wow its an actual fucking rule? that is the dweebiest thing Ive ever heard. Get laid ffs
17:27 < Psi-Jack> Yes, as is the language policy here for your vulgarity.
17:27 < pingfloyd> being literate doesn't prevent one from getting laid
17:27 < pantato> im assuming youre the head neck beard around here too
17:27 < pantato> great
17:27 < pantato> no but being a tight ass does
17:27 < revel> pingfloyd: It doesn't? Damn, I need to come up with a new excuse now, thanks a lot!
17:28 < pingfloyd> haha
17:28 < pingfloyd> revel: as you get older, you'll care less
17:28 < pantato> being a complete DWEEB does. I got over how people typed when I turned 16
17:28 < pantato> youre like me when I was 14
17:28 < Psi-Jack> !ops pantato Language, Attitude, Name-calling.
17:28 < revel> Psi-Jack: What's it like being the head-neck-neard?
17:28 < pantato> fucking vampire
17:28 < Psi-Jack> revel: I'm wondering that myself. :)
17:28 < kilo> hellooooo
17:28 < revel> pingfloyd: I don't really care right now either.
17:28 < ldlework> pantato: it is situations like this that I recommend an OS like NixOS
17:29 < jack_rip_vim> vampire dirary~
17:29 < jack_rip_vim> diary*
17:29 < pingfloyd> revel: women are too much maintenance anyway
17:29 < pingfloyd> revel: at least computer maintenance is worth your time
17:29 < revel> Who said anything about women?
17:30 < pingfloyd> okay, whatever it is that you want to get in
17:30  * jack_rip_vim suddenly know revel is a women
17:30 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: Good work. Recommend the worst of the worst for the worst. :)
17:30  * revel checks underwear
17:30 < revel> jack_rip_vim: I don't think so;.
17:30 < ldlework> NixOS is the worst? Erm, ok.
17:30 < jack_rip_vim> lol
17:30 < pingfloyd> jack_rip_vim: how do you know he's not just gay?
17:31 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Well, he's either/or male/female. Unspecified. Its own words. :)
17:31 < Psi-Jack> s/he's/its/ ;)
17:31 < jack_rip_vim> pingfloyd: revel already checked his underwear, maybe revel see something
17:31 < pingfloyd> men or trans are too high of maintenance too
17:32 < pingfloyd> really relationships require too much time.
17:32 < jack_rip_vim> lol
17:32 < ldlework> I personally like having one configuration format for my entire OS and the ability to rollback between generations of that config. If I rebooted and something I did broke login, I'd be able to roll back to any number of previous generations. And this isn't the same as like Time Machine or other things other OS'ses use.
17:33 < pingfloyd> your significant other at some point will get jealous of someone else or something else getting some of your time and attention.
17:33 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Sheash, I know THAT too well these days.
17:33 < kilo> Idlework: agreed
17:33 < pingfloyd> like they'll even get jealous of the time work takes
17:33 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: I work for a living, and I come home and my wife expects me to do /more/ work.
17:33 < pingfloyd> which you don't have an option with
17:33 < ldlework> I never saw another linux distro where I could have my entire linux configuration in git, clone it to a new machine, and get an exact copy of my previous machine.
17:33 < ldlework> Pretty nice evolution imo.
17:33 < pantato> jack_rip_vim: i fixed it btw
17:34 < jack_rip_vim> pantato: OK, that is geat
17:34 < pingfloyd> never mind that you're trying to acquire resources for both of you to be more comfortable etc.
17:34 < jack_rip_vim> pantato: how did you fixed it?
17:34 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Well, in my case, it seems to be my wife trying to acquire resources for HER to be more comfortable. She even stole my garage.
17:35 < ldlework> Psi-Jack: I think you should try it.
17:35 < pingfloyd> asexual people are the lucky ones
17:35 < pingfloyd> Psi-Jack: that's how it usually goes
17:35 < Psi-Jack> What? The wife stealing the garage?
17:35 < jack_rip_vim> actually, I like housework after work
17:35 < pingfloyd> everything starts off as "ours" and eventually it all becomes "my/mine"
17:36 < Lope> The problem with most of these ultra thin laptops like Surface book 2 or Macbook air (if you want to bend over and take it while giving all your money and be in a hardware jail) even if you run linux on them and get all the HW working on linux... they've got no freakin I/O ports (lacks GbE and displayport usually not many USB either) and the stuff is not easily upgradable (SSD + HDD + RAM)
17:36 < pingfloyd> never mind that it's in regards to stuff that is technically yours to begin with
17:36 < Lope> I like laptops where u can have a SSD and a HDD separate.
17:36 < Psi-Jack> Lope: "you"
17:36 < Lope> Psi-Jack, "you" ?
17:36 < Psi-Jack> Lope: Yes, standard English. :)
17:37 < jack_rip_vim> Lope: Psi-Jack likes to fix your spelling
17:37 < Psi-Jack> I don't LIKE to.
17:37 < ldlework> Lope: we need a constant source of cringe to fuel the channel
17:37 < Lope> What's the correction?
17:37 < revel> "u" to "you"
17:37 < Psi-Jack> Lope: "u" is not a word that means the same thing as "you".
17:37 < jack_rip_vim> u r u <-- this is a words
17:37 < ldlework> Correcting spelling is inherently racist and based on privilege.
17:38 < Lope> Psi-Jack, this is instant messaging. r means are. u means you.
17:38 < pingfloyd> jack_rip_vim: that's the sequel to Myst
17:38 < Lope> It's not that complicated Psi-Jack
17:38 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: That makes literally 0% sense, and is 100% false at the same time.
17:38 < Lope> Psi-Jack, u r full of nonsense :p\
17:38 < Psi-Jack> Lope: Wrong. We require Standard English here, per channel rules.
17:38 < ldlework> That's your position on it.
17:38 < pingfloyd> Lope: this isn't instant messaging though
17:39 < jack_rip_vim> pingfloyd: ;)
17:39 < ldlework> Those with worse spelling probably come from a less priviledged background.
17:39 < Lope> pingfloyd, it actually is. I type a message, and you receive it and can reply instantly.
17:39 < ldlework> To point it out in their time of need in a social place is pretty unempathetic.
17:39 < pingfloyd> Lope: this is IRC
17:39 < ldlework> Those less priviledged typically are those people of color. So it is racist and you should feel bad.
17:39 < Lope> pingfloyd, it's a form of IM
17:39 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: Actually, everyone learns the proper spelling /first/ Then degrade. :p
17:39 < ldlework> That's your priviledge.
17:40 < pingfloyd> Lope: IM didn't exist until much later after IRC
17:40 < Lope> pingfloyd, and has engulfed IRC ;P
17:40 < peetaur2> woah did someone pull the race card for spelling errors?
17:40 < pingfloyd> engulfed how?
17:40 < Zajt> How do I update my firefox on my kali linux? I tried apt-update and apt-get install firefox, but I still got version 52.0 and I need at least 57.0 to install a new addon
17:40 < Psi-Jack> peetaur2: LOL. Right?
17:40 < Lope> pingfloyd, note that IRC is just another protocol supported in pidgin. And you can use it from opera browser along with email (or at least you could)
17:40 < ldlework> We live in an intersectional post-modern world.
17:40 < ldlework> Everything is race-relevant.
17:41 < ldlework> To think otherwise is pretty racist.
17:41 < pingfloyd> Lope: pidgin is an IM client that happens to support IRC in a half-assed fashion
17:41  * Psi-Jack rolls his eyes. "Yeah. Reality is calling, please return to standard reality. ;)
17:41 < peetaur2> what if racism was race dependent? then speaking out against racism would be racist
17:41 < revel> lol
17:41 < Lope> ldlework, everything is racist, everyone is racist so you can get over it now.
17:42 < pantato> Psi-Jack: how would you react if one of your toe jam eating Stallmanite friends didnt ban me?
17:42 < revel> Especially him, for suggesting that people of colour are stupid.
17:42 < revel> And uneducated.
17:42 < pingfloyd> racists tend to think everyone is racist.  That's their goto rationalization.
17:42 < Lope> pingfloyd, proves the point though, IRC is just another IM protocol.
17:42 < pantato> would you go RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
17:42 < Lope> pingfloyd, IM is a category of software, and IRC fits inside it.
17:42 < ldlework> revel: well I was just joking but demographically speaking the stats are on the side of that rhetoric at least in the US
17:43 < pingfloyd> how can IRC be an IM protocol if IRC existed long before IM?
17:43  * jack_rip_vim is going to brush his teeth, then having some food.
17:43 < ldlework> what properties distinguish IM from whatever IRC is?
17:43 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Actually.... BBS's had "Instant Messaging", it was just called multi-node chat, or sysop chat. :p
17:43 < pingfloyd> IRC is the original internet chat protocol
17:43 < revel> ldlework: Statisticians are racist as well.
17:43 < Lope> omg, this racism thing is really lingering.
17:43 < ldlework> revel: now you get it!
17:43 < Lope> Let's all talk about racism all day.
17:43 < pantato> back on my keyboard now, but I'm still gonna omit punctuation and spelling from time to time to make Psi-Jack's micro shrink a bit more
17:43 < Lope> How fun that will be.
17:43 < revel> Okay, let's.
17:43 < ldlework> Lope: I was just kidding...
17:44 < Lope> It's like a fart, that lingers.
17:44 < revel> lol
17:44 < Lope> hahah
17:44 < jack_rip_vim> lol
17:44 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: Man, you held out that "joke" for an excessive long time, then. heh
17:44 < Lope> pingfloyd, IRC is IM, get over it ;)
17:45 < pingfloyd> Lope: it's not, learn it
17:45 < ldlework> Psi-Jack: there are other channels where people go on like that all day
17:45 < ldlework> but without the pretense of humor :O
17:45 < jack_rip_vim> must be ##chat
17:46 < Lope> pingfloyd, In your face, son! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_instant_messaging_protocols
17:46 < Lope> pingfloyd, :p
17:46 < ldlework> Did you just assume their gender?
17:46 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: By definition, IRC is not IM. Just to be clear.
17:46 < Lope> IRC is even below Gadu Gadu... oh the shame.
17:46 < ldlework> That's not what I asked.
17:46 < Psi-Jack> Err, Lope ^
17:46 < ldlework> I asked what properties distinguish IM from whatever IRC is.
17:46 < ldlework> Ah
17:46 < pingfloyd> IM is garbage like ICQ and AOL instant messenger ad nauseum
17:47 < ldlework> "garbage like ICQ"
17:47 < ldlework> wow
17:47 < ayecee> which definition is that
17:47 < jack_rip_vim> I Repeat Classes <--- full spelling of IRC
17:47 < Lope> On IRC you send messages, and people receive them instantly, and can reply instantly. Which is really different from IM, where you send messages, and people receive them instantly, and can reply instantly.
17:47 < pingfloyd> just because they tacked in a second rate "irc client" (if you can call it that), doesn't mean IRC is just another IM protocol.
17:47 < jack_rip_vim> lol
17:47 < ldlework> Lope: lol
17:48 < Psi-Jack> Lope: That's got nothing to do with the definition of Instant Message.
17:48 < Lope> So you're right Psi-Jack and pingfloyd i totally missed that important difference!
17:48 < pingfloyd> Lope: you're skipping a lot
17:48 < rymate1234> yeah
17:48 < rymate1234> IMs generally being on a closed platform
17:48 < pingfloyd> Lope: on irc you connect to an irc server which is in turn connected in a peer to peer fashion with other servers (the relay of IRC).
17:49 < rymate1234> you can also telnet to your favourite irc server
17:49 < pingfloyd> IM is connecting directly with your buddies or via some proprietary relay mechanism
17:49 < jack_rip_vim> Internet Relay Chat <-- real IRC
17:49 < rymate1234> if you like sending PONGs
17:49 < Lope> so IRC is an IM that relays between multiple servers... Like Matrix, another IM protocol.
17:49 < ldlework> Lope: it is the backend architecture which denotes the names IRC and IM, not anything the user experiences in using the services
17:49 < Psi-Jack> Well... I stand corrected.
17:49 < nohop> Not sure if it's the right place here. I'm looking for a regexpression that will get me the 'word' before the first occurance of a '{' character, for example "public void donkey_nuts { dumbells..." would result in "donkey_nuts"
17:49 < ldlework> lol
17:49 < Psi-Jack> Though the term dates from the 1990s, instant messaging predates the Internet, first appearing on multi-user operating systems like Compatible Time-Sharing System (CTSS) and Multiplexed Information and Computing Service (Multics) in the mid-1960s
17:50 < Lope> I'm sure most IM protocols have multiple servers.
17:50 < jack_rip_vim> all is socket's faults
17:50 < Psi-Jack> So, my path down the road to BBS land was actually correct originally. :)
17:50 < rymate1234> irc is the best]
17:50  * ldlework groans
17:51 < jack_rip_vim> any BBS that still can login with telnet?
17:51 < Lope> pingfloyd, it's going to take me a long time to reply to your explanations of how IRC is not IM, because the messages don't arrive instantly and therefore I cannot reply instantly, because IRC is not IM.
17:51 < Psi-Jack> jack_rip_vim: Mine.
17:52 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: what is the address?
17:52 < pingfloyd> Lope: you're conflating the two.  Simple as that.
17:52 < rymate1234> but in an instant messaging application it's possible for messages to not arrive instantly
17:52 < ldlework> It is very easy
17:52 < pingfloyd> just because they're both real-time chat doesn't make them the same thing
17:52 < ldlework> What are the properties that distinguish IM as a class from whatever IRC is?
17:52 < herbst> I have this weird WiFi issue. The connection seems super unstable, however once i open the Gnome Wifi selector it instantly starts working again. Any ideas how i could debug this?
17:52 < ldlework> Is it really the backend architecture? Is that how people identify them?
17:53 < djph> herbst: perhaps powersave or something?
17:54 < Psi-Jack> jack_rip_vim: bbs.deckersheaven.com :)
17:54 < herbst> djph, could that be when i actively use it?
17:55 < jack_rip_vim> Psi-Jack: OK, will visit it
17:55 < djph> herbst: yup
17:57 < Lope> pinfloyd: Psi-Jack: Here's the definition of IM from wikipedia: "Instant messaging (IM) is a way of chatting between two or more people by typing text. The text is then sent by computers over a network such as the Internet. Instant messaging must have an instant messaging client that hooks up to a service that can send instant messages." Yup, IRC fits that definition.
17:58 < mawk> saLope
17:58 < Psi-Jack> Well.. Wikipedia...
17:58 < Lope> Psi-Jack, pingfloyd: next you'll be saying a butter knife is not part of cutlery, because knives existed before cutlery.
17:58 < Lope> or knives of any kind.
17:59 < Psi-Jack> Lope: You know what an actual butter knife is... Right?
17:59 < Lope> And maybe forks too, because they were used to pitch hay or whatever before cutlery was invented.
17:59 < ldlework> Lope: You're obviously correct. And you've worked a number of people into irrationally disagreeing with an obvious triviality somehow. Be satisfied with yourself.
17:59 < rymate1234> irc is definitely an instant messaging protocol
17:59 < ldlework> lol
17:59 < jack_rip_vim> this is like a debet between social network service or social network site
17:59 < ldlework> haha
17:59 < rymate1234> lol
18:00 < ldlework> or whether tmux is a terminal multiplexer
18:00 < Psi-Jack> Those straight knives with the cutting grooves.. Those are steak knives.
18:00 < rymate1234> obviously the reality is nothing is an instant messaging protocol due to network lab
18:00 < atmtt> hello
18:00 < Lope> Psi-Jack, well there are many knives that can fit the definition of a butter knife. It's a knife that makes it easy to spread butter. Some knives may be more or less useful for that purpose, and others may have other purposes, such as cutting, but that's besides the point.
18:00 < jack_rip_vim> hi atmtt
18:00 < pingfloyd> surprised facebook hasn't been conflated with irc yet
18:00 < pingfloyd> or would that be email?
18:00 < dob1> hi, about clonezilla (sorry for the OT) :creating an image with the debian-based one or the ubuntu-based one is the same right?  It's not that on restore I have to use the same one, right?
18:01 < pingfloyd> dob1: shouldn't matter
18:01 < Lope> ldlework, yeah, Psi-Jack and pingfloyd live in a parallel universe.
18:01 < pingfloyd> dob1: if it does, then clonezilla is truly garbage
18:01 < ldlework> pingfloyd: reductio ad absurdum with a pinch of strawman
18:01 < ldlework> Lope: give it a rest lol
18:01 < atmtt> jack_rip_vim: :)
18:02 < jack_rip_vim> atmtt: need help?
18:02 < atmtt> still learning use erc in emacs here
18:02 < dob1> pingfloyd, in any case, what alternative do you suggest me?  (free ones)
18:02 < ldlework> atmtt: congrats
18:02 < pingfloyd> dob1: I prefer to use rsync
18:02 < ldlework> atmtt: Once day I might make the jump, but I have weechat just how I like it.
18:02 < jack_rip_vim> atmtt: a good choice
18:02 < dob1> dob1, ok but rsync is for files, I was thinking disk cloning
18:02 < Psi-Jack> Lope: No, I live in /this/ universe, in /this/ time, with way more knowledge than you. :)
18:03  * ldlework cringes
18:03 < rymate1234> why would you want to use irc in emacs
18:03 < rymate1234> what happened to KISS
18:03 < ldlework> rymate1234: emacs is a dynamic lisp based application platform
18:03 < ldlework> what else are you supposed to do with it other than run applications on it
18:03 < pingfloyd> dob1: clonezilla copies files too
18:03 < jack_rip_vim> Keep it silly stupid~
18:03 < rymate1234> ldlework, I tend to use it as an extendable text editor
18:04 < ldlework> rymate1234: your mistake
18:04 < atmtt> i love minimal interface for everything
18:04 < Psi-Jack> Lope: https://cdnimg.webstaurantstore.com/images/products/large/80580/1015639.jpg   -- Butter Knife. :)
18:04 < pingfloyd> dob1: "disk cloning" can be as simple as using dd
18:04 < rymate1234> emacs is a great text editor
18:04 < ldlework> emacs is just a text-buffer system where inputs bind to arbitrary elisp functions
18:04 < rymate1234> org mode is fantastic for taking notes
18:04 < ldlework> you can make anything with that
18:04 < pingfloyd> dob1: or as convoluted as doing it the way clonezilla does
18:04 < ldlework> including text editors, or irc clients, or rss readers, etc
18:05 < ldlework> terminal multiplexers, front-ends to things like docker or apt, and so on
18:05 < Psi-Jack> rymate1234: Nah. EmacsOS is a great OS /lacking/ a decent text editor. Spacemacs fixes this by melding EmacsOS together with VIM.
18:05 < dob1> pingfloyd, my requirement is:  I have a pc, and I backup files with rsync too etc, but no all the system. if hdd breaks I restore the image from filezilla and the new files from my backup
18:05 < mawk> calm down Psi-Jack
18:05 < dob1> *clonezilla
18:06  * Psi-Jack widens an eye.
18:06 < atmtt> see you later
18:06 < mawk> lol
18:06 < pingfloyd> dob1: that's what clonezilla was meant for: to copy everything
18:06 < ldlework> Yeah emacs is such a nice application platform, they made a better vim inside emacs.
18:06 < rymate1234> lol
18:06 < pingfloyd> dob1: that's not necessarily optimal though.  It's great for an adhoc backup though.
18:06 < ldlework> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWD1Fpdd4Pc great talk by a life-long vim user and contributor
18:06 < pingfloyd> dob1: all those redownloadable binaries are a pretty big waste of backup storage
18:06 < jack_rip_vim> need to out for a break, see your guys later
18:06 < jack_rip_vim> !
18:07 < dob1> pingfloyd, but not of time imho
18:07 < pingfloyd> dob1: how do you manage incremental changes?
18:07 < revel> Incrementally.
18:07 < pingfloyd> that's why I consider clonezilla only good for adhoc backups, because you can't
18:08 < Psi-Jack> Borg Backup.
18:08 < dob1> pingfloyd, as I said I backup my important dir (projects ones) via duplicati/rsync, but I want the system ready to go if hdd breaks, so clonezilla gives me the system up and then duplicati gives me the files of my projects
18:08 < Psi-Jack> dob1: Seems excessive.
18:09 < dob1> Psi-Jack, why?
18:09 < pingfloyd> all not to mention all the duplication of data
18:09 < ldlework> My position on this is, instead of relying on backups to be able to restore a system, instead make the state of the system a function of its totalistic configuration inputs.
18:09 < Psi-Jack> I have an ArchISO I made with borg backup on it, and I'm about to make a Solus one with the same, and all I'll have to do to restore my system is boot that and restore my borg backup, and voila.
18:09 < ldlework> Then it is trivial to keep that configuration in git.
18:09 < dob1> pingfloyd,  no but I keep just one clonezilla image saved (ok maybe 2). The dir that I modify are the ones that I backup via duplicati
18:10 < ldlework> To reproduce the system, use an OS that is reproducably configurable.
18:10 < pingfloyd> like how many copies of the same exact files does you backup have?  Not a very efficient usage of backup storage, which means you'll be able to retain much less.
18:10 < ldlework> like nixos
18:10  * ldlework shrugs.
18:10 < pingfloyd> e.g., you won't be able to keep a nice long rotation going.
18:10 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: And what has NixOS done for the whole of the Linux community?
18:10 < ldlework> that's a bizarre question
18:11 < Psi-Jack> It's not actually.
18:11 < ldlework> does it have anything to do with how nixos solves the problem I just described?
18:11 < dob1> pingfloyd, I got it, but I will be up after a "disaster" in a few
18:11 < ldlework> I'm not interested in politics as refutation of technical claims
18:11 < ldlework> nixos is not the only distro that has this capability
18:11 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: Solus made LDM, which is an enumeration library for hardware to help assist in the automation and classification of hardware and associated drivers.
18:12 < ldlework> no idea what you're talking about
18:12 < Psi-Jack> This was made open and agnostic for all distros to be able to use and enjoy.
18:12 < Psi-Jack> So, what has NixOS done? ;)
18:12 < ldlework> nixos is completely open source
18:12 < pingfloyd> ldlework: what do you mean by "reproducably configurable"?
18:12 < Psi-Jack> That's meaningless by itself.
18:12 < ldlework> pingfloyd: given a set of configuration, you'll always get the same system out
18:12 < pingfloyd> sounds like a buzz word
18:13 < ldlework> including the binary state of packages built
18:13 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Like a Kickstart. :)
18:13 < pingfloyd> ldlework: what isn't?
18:13 < ldlework> all package builds in nixos are pure and reproducable, you always get the same thing
18:13 < ldlework> pingfloyd: what
18:13 < pingfloyd> what dist can reproduce what you had?
18:13 < pingfloyd> *can't
18:13 < ldlework> pingfloyd: what distro has a single configuration layer for the whole OS?
18:14 < ldlework> the answers to my question are synonmous with the answers to yours
18:14 < ldlework> debian, ubuntu, arch, and so on
18:14 < pingfloyd> ldlework: what does that have to do with reproducably configurable?
18:14 < ldlework> ...
18:14 < ldlework> pingfloyd: are you genuinely confused, or are we having one of those conversations like you had with Lope
18:15 < pingfloyd> ldlework: you're basically saying a "single configuration layer" (rather ambiguous) is required for "reproducible configuration"
18:15 < lordvadr> Did we decide if IRC is an IM protocol or not yet?
18:15 < ldlework> Where nothing I say is going to penetrate your dismissive rhetoric and so I'm wasting my time
18:15 < ldlework> pingfloyd: yes, that is the first step
18:15 < WhiteDevil> i got a linux wireless adapter that runs on my debian and rhel
18:15 < pingfloyd> ldlework: that's the kind of thinking that led to abominations like the Windows Registry btw
18:15 < WhiteDevil> its called panda wireless pau09
18:15 < ldlework> pingfloyd: you don't know what nixos but you're cerain it is the windows registry
18:15 < ldlework> I can see there's no value in me helping you understand, you just want to fight
18:15 < WhiteDevil> in case any of you were looking for a wireles adapter
18:16 < pingfloyd> the whole idea that configuration must be handled for the entire system in one place
18:16 < ldlework> which is OK, I don't accumulate any problems if you don't use NixOS
18:17 < Psi-Jack> So, what has NixOS done for the whole Linux community? ;)
18:17 < Psi-Jack> Nothing, right? ;)
18:17 < pingfloyd> ldlework: it sounds like nixos is saying there's a big problem with something that has never been a problem in practice.
18:17 < ldlework> lol
18:18 < pingfloyd> so what am I really missing out on by lacking a nixos single configuration layer?
18:18 < Psi-Jack> All I see in the news about NixOS is, NixOS updates this, Nix updated... Nothing about what they have done at all for the Linux community as a whole.
18:18 < triceratux> nix is an opensource packagemanager that runs on linux & macos & can be used to create distros such as nixos which also use nix for config management
18:18 < ldlework> I can reproduce a linux system nearly bit complete by having my nix config in a git repo.
18:18 < pingfloyd> Psi-Jack: that's because it is hyped
18:18 < ldlework> I don't need to back up or image my system.
18:19 < revel> You can save your list of installed packages on other distros as well.
18:19 < ldlework> Because they managed to figure out how to convert in a reproducable way, a nix-lang configuration, into a configured linux system.
18:19 < revel> And you'll still want to back up your media stuff.
18:19 < Psi-Jack> Yet, Solus.. Linux Driver Management, working on restoring wayland support, QT wayland compositor support, Steam integration, etc.
18:19 < ldlework> They are not the only one, but traditional linux distributions have nothing like this.
18:19 < ldlework> I wonder who you think you're convincing with this "help the linux community" argument lol
18:20 < Psi-Jack> Not to mention Budgie, too. :)
18:20 < ldlework> It makes zero sense, andd carries zero weight.
18:20 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: if you try nix youll find it looks similar to my SSP facility: linux software packaged as squashfs so package installs are a boottime thing
18:20 < lordvadr> Yes? No?
18:20 < revel> ldlework: Innovations that help people that don't even use your distro and that will keep helping people even after your distro fizzles out... Yeah, who would want those?
18:21 < ldlework> revel: I'm not saying its unwanted, warranted to be rejected
18:21 < ldlework> but it bears no weight on what nixos /actually does/
18:21 < Psi-Jack> Yet, it does.
18:21 < ldlework> If you want to be able to reproduce a linux system, nearly bit by bit, without imaging, and just maintaining some text in a git repo
18:21 < ldlework> then you can use nixos or guix or friends
18:21 < ldlework> regardless of "what they've done for the community"
18:22 < sstory> systemd seems to continue to be rewriting and breaking Linux in many ways. Why hasn't anyone pulled the eject cord on it yet?
18:22 < pingfloyd> sstory: because it's a large enough cult
18:22 < revel> I personally don't find myself wanting to use the same exact system on a wide variety of different physical systems.
18:22 < sstory> every upgrade it breaks something new. It has now broken syslog
18:22 < triceratux> sstory: wut you mean "what has red hat done for the community ?" rofl
18:23 < Psi-Jack> sstory: What FUD do you speaketh? NEvermind, I don't want to know of your lies.
18:23 < sstory> How is this beneficial
18:23 < ldlework> I personally don't ever want to configure my personal workstation again, which has to be done each time I get a new workstation
18:23 < ldlework> Also, if you're deploying software to servers you're intrinsically in the business of reproducability
18:23 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: Heh. That's actually one thing I love about Solus, actually.
18:23 < ldlework> There's docker, but actually, docker and nix are a good combo.
18:24 < ldlework> docker as a surrogate I guess for all container technology
18:24 < revel> Funny how I've always heard about Nix being great for servers, but never actually heard of people using it there .-.
18:24 < Psi-Jack> ldlework: With Solus, I don't /need/ to backup anything other than /etc and /home, because when I pull out the Solus ISO and install it, everything that's relevantly important that I've specificially done will be in /etc or /home.
18:24 < sstory> Psi-Jack: What FUD? I am speaking of real problems from a real person continually being bitten in the butt by systemd darn near every time there is an update and now having to reboot LINUX systems more than ever before. None of which is progress.
18:25 < ldlework> revel: Well that's because Nix is young with not a huge industry behind it for tooling, compare to say, orchestration as it pertains to containerization
18:25 < pingfloyd> I just backup /root, /etc, /home, and /usr/local
18:25 < ldlework> that doesn't say anything whether reproducabile systems are useful for deploying software
18:25 < ldlework> I mean what do you think the whole of configuration management is /for/?
18:25 < Psi-Jack> sstory: Vague. Useless information is useless. Ranting over thin air is useless.
18:25 < pingfloyd> deployment is a whole other can of worms.  The goal posts keep changing here.
18:25 < ldlework> It is very strange how there is an emotional bias against nixos that leads to really empty arguments against it
18:26 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: With Arch I was backing up /, minus certain caches, device nodes, etc.
18:26 < ldlework> I would think any experiment towards reproducability is good for "people invested in computation"
18:26 < sstory> Psi-Jack: Could be... very frustrating though and I am amazed that all the big dogs in Linux world seem to just be drinking the Kool-Aid
18:26 < pingfloyd> only place I deal with deployment is at work and they already use something that is total crap
18:26 < pingfloyd> they want people that will use their garbage
18:26 < ldlework> There's no goalpost changing at all. This is pure rhetoric.
18:26 < Psi-Jack> sstory: What distro is this occurring on for you?
18:26 < pingfloyd> you know, all the software they wasted their money on
18:26 < sstory> CentOS
18:26 < Psi-Jack> CentOS has had no issues with systemd since the adoption of systemd.
18:27 < pingfloyd> and will continue to waste money on and be fleeced the whole way through
18:27 < pingfloyd> they get what they deserve though
18:27 < Psi-Jack> None of the issues you claim for sure. (not that you claimed anything much)
18:27 < pingfloyd> Enterprise decisions are usually made by which option has the hippest buzz words
18:27 < sstory> Psi-Jack: Amazing...I had a great syslog server now broken. And it appears to be because of systemd. I also read up on it and found a page on the issue, but so far no solutions.
18:28 < Psi-Jack> sstory: What's actually the problem?
18:29 < pingfloyd> sstory: there's more dists starting to pop up that don't drink the kool-aid
18:30 < WhiteDevil> is gui programming in python easy ?
18:30 < sstory> Psi-Jack: according to the syslog people, imjournal has serious deficiencies and even drops data at times; having trouble getting information sent from a device to a syslog server to function. Before last upgrade with more sysd changes...worked fine.
18:30 < sstory> pingfloyd: Like what?
18:30 < sstory> I know about Arch, but really don't want to compile every single thing, etc.
18:30 < pingfloyd> sstory: devuan, void off the top of my head
18:30 < revel> sstory: Arch is a binary distro though?
18:30 < pingfloyd> sstory: gentoo
18:30 < triceratux> with my FDF/SSP i only have to backup my paradigmatic skeleton ${HOME} which is restored at boottime & is generally between 500M-1G. i only do sessiontime installs of the packages *once* & their squashfs images are henceforth enabled with every boot. it works from the unchanged ISOs of the majority of distros & will create an identical system if used for deployment
18:30 < revel> (Gentoo isn't though)
18:31 < pingfloyd> sstory: in gentoo's case though, they never drank the kool-aid to begin with.
18:31 < sstory> revel: hmm. well I read up on it a lot and seemed like way more work that I wish to do at this point. I haven't tried it.
18:31 < WhiteDevil> talking about kool aid makes me wanna down a jug
18:31 < revel> It gives you the option of choice between OpenRC (which is also a Gentoo project) and systemd.
18:31 < Psi-Jack> sstory: that's a problem with rsyslogd specifically.
18:32 < sstory> Wonder how long before Gentoo gives in...
18:32 < revel> And I guess some other init systems as well, though they're not supported quite as well as those two options.
18:32 < pingfloyd> revel: that's insane! a dist giving you a choice?! (sarcasm)
18:32 < triceratux> http://pastebin.centos.org/878091/raw/
18:32 < revel> sstory: Err... Why would it ever? OpenRC is a Gentoo project and it's a source-based distro.
18:32 < sstory> Psi-Jack: really? it never had one before. Are you sure?
18:32 < Psi-Jack> sstory: be default actually too. Centos doesn't use imjournal because of that.
18:32 < Psi-Jack> Yes I'm sure
18:33 < WhiteDevil> no one can beat psy jackie chan
18:33 < sstory> revel: I don't know...I have been reading how sysd keeps taking over so many things that it may eventually be difficult to compile a system with gnu linux without it.
18:33 < revel> Well, the compiling part is left to the user, so...
18:34 < pingfloyd> sstory: if you're compiling all of it, you have more control over that
18:34 < revel> Gentoo also has eudev, which is udev for systems that don't have systemd.
18:34 < pingfloyd> sstory: but who want to have to compile everything to be rid of systemd?
18:34 < sstory> pingfloyd:, revel: hope you are all correct.
18:34 < triceratux> "i cant get my gnome window widgets to compile unless i link them against systemd-resolved"
18:34 < sstory> pingfloyd: Yep.
18:34 < revel> Well, I happen to use Gentoo...
18:34 < Psi-Jack> Be default actually centos uses the passthru method to get it from the systemd syslog stream.
18:35  * lordvadr wants to bring back upstart
18:35 < revel> Though you said that compiling everything didn't sound appealing to you, so, look elsewhere, maybe.
18:35 < Psi-Jack> Die upstart die!
18:35 < sstory> Psi-Jack: hmm. All I know is it was working until a few days ago. I can also do packet sniffing and see it goes from firewall, through router, to that box...where it never logs a darn thing...but it did before.
18:36 < searedvandal> embrace systemdOS
18:36 < pingfloyd> systemd/linux
18:36 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: I'm a bit late, but I'm gonna tell you what Nix(OS) has done for the whole linux community (one of the things at least)
18:36 < pingfloyd> wonder if systemd takes up more of the userland than gnu at this point
18:37 < Psi-Jack> So a thing you don't know much about broke a thing you don't know much about? Basically?
18:37 < revel> pingfloyd: Is LGPL GPL?
18:37 < revel> (I know what LGPL is)
18:37 < Psi-Jack> infinisil: cool. Curious!
18:37 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: A package manager usable on all Linux distros and even macOS. And there won't even be any conflicts with any existing package manager
18:38 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: This means that packaging something for Nix (in nixpkgs), will enable all Linux distros to install it easily
18:38 < Psi-Jack> Oh?
18:38 < pingfloyd> revel: they're different
18:39 < pingfloyd> revel: LGPL is more for dealing with proprietary libraries
18:39 < Psi-Jack> How does it handle cross distro compatibility?
18:39 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: What does this mean?
18:39 < Psi-Jack> Heh.
18:39 < Psi-Jack> So it doesn't.
18:39 < revel> Hmm. Wait. I think I meant "Is LGPL GNU?", but that doesn't really make sense.
18:39 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: I haven't heard the term before so I don't even know what it means
18:40 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: Explain it before you conclude anything
18:40 < Psi-Jack> Which term?
18:40 < pingfloyd> revel: it's a license by FSF
18:40 < revel> Psi-Jack: Ships its own everything and edits RPATH/RUNPATH
18:40 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: "Cross distro compatibility"
18:40 < revel> pingfloyd: Yeah, I know.
18:40 < infinisil> It can work on any distro
18:41 < revel> Hmm. Nix people also made patchelf.
18:41 < Psi-Jack> infinisil: so I make a package in NixOS. Yet someone from Debian wants to use it and Fedora too.
18:41 < revel> (which is for editing R{,UN}PATH
18:41 < revel> )
18:41 < Psi-Jack> infinisil: from the same package.
18:41 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: Yeah, no problem, as revel indicated, Nix ships its own libraries, own gcc, own everything, and links the stuff you install to those from nix
18:42 < pingfloyd> infinisil: I don't think homogenization of package management is necessarily a plus
18:42 < searedvandal> how is it better than let's say flatpak?
18:42 < infinisil> pingfloyd: As Nix shows, package managers don't have to be distro specific, there's indeed almost nothing that has to be distro specific on pakcages
18:43 < pingfloyd> infinisil: so how does it handle dist dependent dependencies?
18:43 < revel> searedvandal: Not shipping its own everything *per app*? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18:43 < Psi-Jack> There's plenty of things actually.
18:43 < pingfloyd> infinisil: not every dist configures their software the same
18:43 < searedvandal> revel, fair enough. but sounds messy.
18:43 < pingfloyd> infinisil: dependencies can vary depending on configuration choices they made
18:43 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: the 64bit build of vfu 4.10 in debian / ubuntu is buggy. so i compiled the fixed 4.15 from source into an fhs subtree & built it into an SSP. it runs in that form on every 64bit gnu/linux/x11 distro i run which is still several dozen
18:44 < infinisil> pingfloyd: What would have to differ between distros?
18:44 < pingfloyd> infinisil: compiled many programs?
18:44 < infinisil> pingfloyd: Ah yes, Nix can allow you to customize things easily
18:45 < pingfloyd> this isn't an issue with source based dist
18:45 < xhip> so.. looks like wicd also froze my system
18:45 < triceratux> thats the whole point. theres nothing radical about cross-distro package management anymore. youll be seeing more not less of it
18:45 < lupine> it's so awful though
18:45 < pingfloyd> like gentoo uses use flags
18:45 < infinisil> pingfloyd: Nix allows you to easily compile from source if you wish so, you just won't get any prebuilt stuff like that
18:46 < pingfloyd> like maybe you want the optional gnome bloat, maybe you don't
18:46 < infinisil> And it's super easy to override some compilation flag
18:46 < jelly> nix is very interesting
18:46 < pingfloyd> infinisil: that's my point
18:46 < infinisil> You mean you want prebuilt stuff even for non-standard settings?
18:46 < pingfloyd> infinisil: with source it isn't an issue.  It's an issue with distribution of binary packages.
18:46 < triceratux> jelly: yep i would have gone farther with it but id already done most of it myself
18:46 < searedvandal> so basically it can be customized to work on any distro, but you can't just pack it once and it will work everywhere?
18:47 < mixfix41> havnt touched gnome lately but should i
18:47 < pingfloyd> infinisil: also, what happens if you mix usage of it with your native package manager?
18:47 < infinisil> searedvandal: Nah that works, pack it once, will work on all distros, and even throughout time. I could build an emacs from like 2006 without any problems with Nix
18:47 < triceratux> mixfix41: nope go straight for lubuntu 18.10 lxqt. you shall be absorbed
18:47 < jelly> and there's like at least three competing "distro-indepedent" binary packaging formats for linux
18:47 < pingfloyd> infinisil: I would imagine a lot of potential for conflicts
18:47 < drewmutt> Heya smart people, how would I pluck a part out of curl response and use it in a subsequent request, seems grep only does entire lines?
18:48 < jelly> appimage, snap, I always forget the third one
18:48 < searedvandal> flatpak
18:48 < jelly> that.
18:48 < triceratux> & they all suck because they try to do too much. but theyre going to be necessary in the longrun
18:48 < infinisil> pingfloyd: Yeah, it doesn't play well with other package managers, Nix likes to handle everything on its own, and that's a good thing, because you couldn't get stuff reproducible otherwise
18:48 < pingfloyd> infinisil: so if you were to say use nixos package, you're all in at that point.
18:48 < mixfix41> maybe ill set one up to someone else to use but usuallyy i set em up with the distrubutino that i prefer which isnt always the best thing knowing other distros i was meaning to look into indiana linux maybne i should outline something there
18:48 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: what distro are you on/using ?
18:49 < ldlework> I used nix on OSX
18:49 < infinisil> Nix has the ability to handle the work of pretty much all other package managers
18:49 < ldlework> Using brew and nix side by side
18:49 < ldlework> (though now I'm full nixos because it is awesome)
18:49 < triceratux> zomg invasion of the nixers ;)
18:50 < ldlework> triceratux: the rhetoric before was absurd
18:50 < infinisil> Well I obviously can't change hard Archers opinions in a day
18:50 < ldlework> ^_^
18:50 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: what OS do you use?
18:50 < searedvandal> we love our pacman
18:50 < infinisil> But I'll just say that Nix has a lot of advantages I couldn't think of not having anymore, and I love it
18:50 < ldlework> A problem with nix is that it is hard
18:51 < ldlework> But still worth it
18:51 < Psi-Jack> infinisil: hmmm.
18:51 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: debian
18:51 < infinisil> Well it's a steep learning curve, but once you're comfortable with it it's pretty easy
18:51 < ldlework> right
18:51 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: you don't mind systemd ?
18:51 < triceratux> imho manjaro on top of distrowatch proves archland is becoming more maclike tho
18:51 < Psi-Jack> infinisil: so you have to use nix on nixos to make packages, but could use those packages on other distros?
18:51 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: And yes, Nix also has problems, and I could tell you those, but the advantages for outweight the disadvantages imo
18:52 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: Yup
18:52 < Psi-Jack> infinisil: I don't see that as much of a benefit personally...
18:52 < ldlework> Psi-Jack: because the package is "self-contained" so to speak. It doesn't depend on anything of the resident distro where it is running.
18:52 < pingfloyd> infinisil: I guess it comes down to philosophy.  Should different dists be more uniform for easier and more universal usage or more unique to cover varied user tastes?
18:52 < ldlework> Even on NixOS :D
18:53 < Psi-Jack> AppImage does this too. But works on any distro to make or run..
18:53 < infinisil> Psi-Jack: How is that not a benefit? What do you gain of having to package something on all distros on their own?
18:53 < pingfloyd> to me the whole point of linux is get away from the one size fits all OS mentality.
18:53 < pingfloyd> more to have the OS work how the user wants
18:53 < triceratux> linux is forging a new kind of newbie whos never seen windows & is basically a macos / android user who gets interested in arch & understands where manjaro is coming from
18:53 < CyberManifest> [11:51:36] <CyberManifest> pingfloyd: you don't mind systemd ?
18:53 < pingfloyd> otherwise, I'd probably be better off sticking with Windows and/or MacOS
18:54 < ldlework> I mean, infinisil only brought up the universiality of the packages because you all begged the community contribution.
18:54 < ldlework> Even if that were not possible, I bet you infinisil still uses NixOps
18:54 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: I can't stand systemd
18:54 < ldlework> Because of /what it does/
18:54 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: especially the mentality of its devs
18:54 < RustyJ> never seen windows? what joy that must be
18:54 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: does your iteration of Debian have/use systemd?
18:54 < ldlework> s/nixops/nixos
18:54 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: to me it's just another case of a lesser standard becoming the defacto standard
18:55 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: which has happened since computers have been around
18:55 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: does your Debian have/use systemd?
18:55 < ayecee> that's how the multics people felt about unix
18:55 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: the VHS of init daemons (which isn't really accurate since the problem is that systemd is so much more than init).
18:56 < Psi-Jack> CyberManifest: Debian has used systemd since 8.0
18:56 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: it's on its way to becoming a reinvention of the entire userland
18:56 < CyberManifest> Psi-Jack: I know, but pingfloyd says he uses Debian but doesn't like systemd
18:56 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: is Slack using systemd?
18:57 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: systemd was where debian made a really stupid decision
18:58 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: also just because a dist does something doesn't mean I'm in agreement with their decisions
18:58 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: I'm even critical of what I use like everything else.
18:59 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: so it's not just evangelism, but honest and objective opinion.
18:59 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: relax mate, I'm not trying to argue or fight or sway you one way or another, I'm just observing and getting some insights and learning.
18:59 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: If Slack is using systemd then there isn't much hope; because then the 3 main core distros would all be using it; RedHat, Debian, Slack
18:59 < infinisil> pingfloyd: Isn't "objective opinion" an oxymoron?
19:00 < pingfloyd> i.e., even though Debian has been my favorite for decades, doesn't mean they're perfect and haven't made some blunders.
19:00 < infinisil> opinions are always subjective
19:00 < pingfloyd> infinisil: no
19:00 < CyberManifest> oh and SuSE
19:00 < searedvandal> CyberManifest, slackware uses sysvinit
19:00 < pingfloyd> there's a difference between an objective opinion and a biased one
19:00 < Psi-Jack> SURE not SuSE
19:00 < Psi-Jack> bah
19:00 < CyberManifest> searedvandal: so one it still holding true to the conservative original values
19:00 < Psi-Jack> All caps SUSE.
19:01 < CyberManifest> is*
19:01 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: a bias one here would be thinking since Debian uses systemd, systemd is great.
19:01 < infinisil> pingfloyd: I mean, it's still what a certain person thinks though, which makes it subjective to the person
19:01 < searedvandal> systemd is great
19:01 < triceratux> CyberManifest: theres only a small number of distros which are continuing to reject systemd & as time goes on they are becoming more marginalised & irrelevant http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd
19:02 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: no, I'm thinking since systemd is on Debian it might not be that bad; if the people that use Debian don't like systemd but still use Debian anyways.
19:03 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: that's quite an assumption
19:03 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: maybe it's not bad enough to be a deal breaker for using debian.  That doesn't mean its good.
19:04 < CyberManifest> triceratux: I get that, they're being steamrolled by progress and innovation; as Darwin once put it: It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change.
19:05 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: doesn't have to do with being adaptable.  Standards have more to do with what is most popular.
19:06 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: I'm not judging systemd good or bad (frankly I don't really care) what works works or what doesn't doesn't, but I care more about the overall OS and weather it's good enough to use or keep using or tolerate or not tolerate
19:06 < pingfloyd> better standards rarely win, because most people don't know what the differences are and just go with whatever is most pervasive.
19:06 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: popular seems to be the change
19:06 < pingfloyd> i.e., whatever commercial they hear the most is "the brand to use".
19:07 < triceratux> CyberManifest: thats the easy part. in addition it constitutes evidence that the debian community & their much vaunted governance system is in no position to protect the distro from incursions of questionable system software. if it takes canonical to bring it about, everyone will go the way red space hat demands
19:08 < pingfloyd> Canonical are shameless whores
19:08 < triceratux> thats always true
19:08 < ldlework> fwiw, to anyone who was piqued by that previous conversation there is a bustling #nixos community on freenode
19:09 < CyberManifest> triceratux: except the niche that seems to grow irrelevant and irreverent in the community at large?
19:09 < pingfloyd> eventually some new fad will replace systemd
19:09 < Loshki> Goodbye irregardless, hello irreleverent
19:10 < pingfloyd> wonder if it will be even worse though
19:10 < pingfloyd> or will it be the result of lessons learned that should have already been known by history
19:11 < pingfloyd> there's a reason nobody tried to make their init be everything and the kitchen sink in the past
19:11 < ldlework> Loshki: hehe
19:11 < CyberManifest> systemd itself is still opensource though, right? and attributable and able to be modified ?
19:11 < Psi-Jack> Yep
19:12 < Dan39> i thinksystemd is here to stay for a long time, like at least 10 more years
19:12 < Loshki> CyberManifest: yes, just like pulseaudio
19:12 < Psi-Jack> Heh. I find it funny that systemd is often only thought of as just init.
19:12 < pingfloyd> Psi-Jack: that's the problem, it's way more than that
19:13 < pingfloyd> systemd is practically a userland replacement
19:13 < pingfloyd> it started with init
19:13 < konimex> systemd was never intended as just "init", no?
19:13 < Psi-Jack> It is. And in a way that is modular.
19:13 < Psi-Jack> Actually no it didn't just start with init
19:13 < Psi-Jack> Another misinformation there.
19:14 < pingfloyd> I know, it's wants to be everything
19:14  * Dan39 plays the jeapordy tune
19:14 < Psi-Jack> No it doesn't.
19:14 < pingfloyd> just like a windows application
19:15 < pingfloyd> how many daemons is it now?
19:15 < revel> Init, cron, udev, bootloader, probably missing loads :D
19:15 < Dan39> ntp
19:15 < revel> Syslog ofc, network management.
19:15 < CyberManifest> so forgive my ignorance but I'm not familiar with the mechanics of systemd; does it use pieces and parts to form a whole with modules and such; or is it a monolithic and one giant large thing?
19:15 < konimex> Psi-Jack: I have no idea of systemd's inner workings aside from its service files (which is actually better than sysvinit/openrc), but if it's really modular, then forks like eudev and elogind won't be necessary, no?
19:15 < Psi-Jack> "of course"
19:16 < revel> "naturally"
19:16 < Dan39> CyberManifest: modular, most of these parts are actualy separate bins entirely
19:16 < lordvadr> "drinking"
19:16 < revel> Psi-Jack: Maybe I meant "olfactory"? :D
19:16 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: it's really monolithic, but pretends to not be by being "modular"
19:17 < Psi-Jack> konimex: those are not necessary no. Just forks of parts of systemd because fud and unknown.
19:17 < Dan39> but i kind of agree it becomes monolithic with the parts depending on each other
19:17 < pingfloyd> Dan39: separate binaries doesn't matter.  That's just a formality
19:17 < Dan39> like, could i use systemd-timesyncd without the rest of systemd? i doubt it... but i have no idea
19:17 < CyberManifest> Dan39 so bassically it took over init's job as one part binary and then replaced other core system features jobs by taking over their binaries and thus uniforming the multi binaries under the say label?
19:17 < konimex> iirc gentoo even has systemd-boot compiled by itself
19:18 < CyberManifest> same*
19:18 < pingfloyd> Dan39: that's like comparing a suite of binaries that depend on each other vs. the whole bloated mess being in one binary.
19:18 < Dan39> CyberManifest: well you can see multiple binaries like reboot and whatnot are symlinks to systemctl
19:18 < Dan39> pingfloyd: yea...
19:19 < Dan39> i mean, i guess it's convenient for the developers now, to be able to rely on those other pieces
19:20 < revel> Is systemX just around the corner? :D
19:20 < CyberManifest> what I'm trying to get at is systemd really just init in a reincarnation; like is it simply an evolved init or is it something more sinister like a cancer that requires it's presence and isn't interchangeable/replaceable
19:20 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: the latter
19:20 < Dan39> CyberManifest: the latter id say
19:20 < konimex> so.. systemd is just like busybox or.. GNU coreutils, then?
19:20 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: init is just where it all starts
19:21 < Psi-Jack> But it didn't start with init at all. Lol
19:21 < Dan39> but the pieces aren't all unreplaceable
19:21 < CyberManifest> so is systemd trying to be the microkernel that Linux always wanted to be?
19:21 < Dan39> you can use ntpd instead of systemd-timesyncd, and use NetworkManager instead of systemd-networkd
19:21 < revel> lol
19:21 < Psi-Jack> CyberManifest: nope
19:21 < revel> When did Linux want to be a microkernel though?
19:21 < Dan39> he means GNU
19:22 < Psi-Jack> revel: never. Lol
19:22 < revel> HURD, you mean?
19:22 < pingfloyd> Dan39: give it time
19:22 < pingfloyd> Dan39: eventually those won't be easily swappable either
19:22 < Dan39> :(
19:22 < CyberManifest> revel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanenbaum%E2%80%93Torvalds_debate
19:22 < revel> pingfloyd: Source?
19:22 < Psi-Jack> revel: FUD
19:23 < Dan39> hybdrid kernel bro
19:23 < revel> CyberManifest: Wasn't that the one where Torvalds argued for the benefits of a monolithic kernel?
19:23 < pingfloyd> ignore Psi-Jack, he isn't capable of being objective.  Whatever he uses is the best without question.
19:23 < triceratux> CyberManifest: not at all. the whole point is that the kernel is in kernelspace & systemd is pideins of userspace. its a given theyre each controlling their own turf. in the rare cases where theres been interaction, sparks have flown
19:24 < CyberManifest> revel: https://slashdot.org/story/06/05/10/0439246/torvalds-on-the-microkernel-debate
19:24 < i-make-robots> hi.  I don't know where else to ask... i'm connecting via putty to my linux box.  the linux box wants a public key.  I can't find info on where to store public keys in putty per-connection.  Do you happen to know?
19:24 < Dan39> i-make-robots: putty site has another tool for that
19:24 < revel> CyberManifest: Stop sending me links.
19:25 < Dan39> i think pageant.exe is what you need i-make-robots
19:25 < pingfloyd> triceratux: yeah, it's often been systemd introducing regression and being in denial of it.  Then Linus blows a gasket, because he is very anti-regression.
19:26 < i-make-robots> dan39 - do you mean bitvise?
19:26 < CyberManifest> revel: stop asking questions for answers that are readily available on the Internet
19:26 < triceratux> CyberManifest: if anything lennart is arrogating to himself large portions of what had been a mature, stable, functional userspace, starting with sysvinit but moving into areas such as logging & shutdown & in such a way that often contributed little other than confusion & disarray
19:26 < CyberManifest> triceratux: perhaps it's just a guise
19:27 < triceratux> CyberManifest: imagine if one day he decides to write a scripting language & a shell to go with it
19:27 < revel> Stop interpreting rhetorical questions as questions.
19:27 < NGC3982> ok.
19:27 < i-make-robots> what would be a good channel to ask about cpu load related to apache?  php-fpm7 is running three instances using 40% of my cpu.
19:27 < NGC3982> sorry 'bout dat.
19:27 < pingfloyd> triceratux: well sysv init has its warts too, but at least it doesn't try to be more than init.  So at least it isn't oblivious to unix tenet and tradition.
19:27 < CyberManifest> meanwhile the Russia and US meeting is happening in Linus's hometown of Helsinki Finland in July
19:28 < pingfloyd> more importantly: why that tenet was even invented
19:28 < triceratux> CyberManifest: exactly. *now* you can start being suspicious ;)
19:29 < pingfloyd> i.e., the lessons of the limitations that monolithic software imposes were already learned even back then
19:29 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: unfortunately popularity ran away with it
19:30 < triceratux> pingfloyd: yep if only this were a technical question it would be a nobrainer. unfortunately it became some weird kind of cross-distro politics
19:31 < CyberManifest> revel: stop making untrue inferences with rhetorical questions
19:31 < Dan39> i-make-robots: no...
19:32 < pingfloyd> triceratux: I think dists tend to like it because it shift the burden of interoperability and integration
19:32 < Psi-Jack> Which.. Ironically. Is exactly what it was designed to do. :)
19:32 < Psi-Jack> The irony of that! :)
19:32 < pingfloyd> at the cost of taking away users' choices
19:32 < revel> CyberManifest: Well, correct me then.
19:32 < Psi-Jack> But, it doesn't do that at all. LOL
19:33 < pingfloyd> what's the point of using linux at that point?
19:33 < CyberManifest> revel: that's what the links were for ;)
19:33 < cfoch> hello
19:33 < jim> the irony of ferrous metal...
19:33 < cfoch> do Linux devices have "classes"?
19:33 < jim> hi
19:33 < pingfloyd> a big reason to bother with linux is to get away from homogenization of the OS
19:33 < Psi-Jack> cfoch: That question makes no sense.
19:34 < cfoch> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/man1/gst-device-monitor-1.0.1.html
19:34 < jim> cfoch, can you give an example?
19:34 < pingfloyd> so even more ironic
19:34 < revel> CyberManifest: I didn't see anything there that implied I was wrong, so I'll just assume you enjoy spending your time on wasting other people's time.
19:34 < bls> "I heard systemd is modular and systemd-foobard is awesome, how do I use it on distro/OS baz?" "you can't because that system doesn't use systemd from the ground up"
19:34 < cfoch> For example that link list multimedia devices by a given class like "Video/Source" or "Audio/Source"
19:34 < pingfloyd> I agree that systemd is ironic
19:34 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: That's.... /a/ reason, not always shared so much. I started using Linux because it was free, it was Unix-like.
19:35 < pingfloyd> wonder how long before we see a systemd store
19:35 < Dan39> maybe we should stop saying it's modular and just say it is... adjusted? you can turn features of it on and off? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
19:35 < Dan39> adjustable*
19:35 < cfoch> So, is GStreamer using some kernel feature or structure to list the devices (/dev/) info by their class?
19:35 < jim> yeah that's pretty much why I started too
19:35 < pingfloyd>  i.e., before systemd has an app store built in
19:35 < Psi-Jack> I am, free, without charge, to download, use, even modify it to my hearts content if I so chose to do so. At the time, Windows was selling for $100 upgrades or some-such. $200 for brand new. heh
19:35 < Psi-Jack> It won't. :p
19:36 < bls> I used it because I could pick and choose/mix and match my stack stack with each piece suited to purpose, whereas on other OSs, I'd have to buy into an entire ecosystem based on an individual choice
19:36 < bls> tech stack
19:37 < CyberManifest> revel: I can't help your lack of seeing or your assumptions
19:37 < revel> It seems like you can't help in general...
19:37 < Psi-Jack> Well, to be fair... I started Linux way back before there was even really a choice in distributions. There was MCC and SLS.
19:37 < pingfloyd> Psi-Jack: you know there is a free (as in libre) Unix, it's BSD
19:38 < jim> CyberManifest, revel, come on, please no fighting
19:38 < pingfloyd> that was the whole point of BSD, a rewrite of sysv because of lawsuit.
19:38 < pingfloyd> from AT&T
19:38 < Psi-Jack> I did use FreeBSD for a while as well. And while it had some cool stuff about it, it just was more actual maintenance than useful.
19:40 < Psi-Jack> I for one was actually pissed when FreeBSD out of the blue decided to remove Travan Tape drive support completely because. "it was dirty code", so instead of fixing it, they outright took it out and wiped the slate clean of it.
19:40 < bls> *cough* ifconfig/netstat *cough* :)
19:40 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: you on stable branch or testing of Debian?
19:41 < Psi-Jack> And here in Linux, I could still use such a tape drive, wether it be connected to IDE or the floppy interface.
19:41 < pingfloyd> Berkeley was basically faced with a decision.  To either dump BSD of the time (extra software dependant on sysv), or rewrite all the sysv parts required so they're not in violation of copyright.
19:41 < pingfloyd> they went with the latter
19:42 < pingfloyd> so BSD is basically a free version of sysv
19:42 < Psi-Jack> Still has a lot of the same old reminiscences of it, too, sadly.
19:42 < skizzy> anyone know why I'd have permission denied(public key) when I have my public key in the server's authorized key file? I tried also PasswordAuthentication yes but I just can't get in
19:42 < pingfloyd> BSD is a great option if you want to sysv Unix.
19:43 < skizzy> I have console access through a web browser but wish to ssh from my own terminal
19:43 < pingfloyd> or a free OS as close as possible to old proprietary AT&T Unix
19:43 < BCMM> skizzy: permissions on the authorized key file? permissions on your private key, client side?
19:43 < skizzy> BCMM: I'll check that
19:43 < BCMM> skizzy: ssh won't use keys if other users on the system can see them basically
19:43 < Psi-Jack> More so, permissions on $HOME/.ssh itself on the server end.
19:44 < Psi-Jack> authorized_keys is very unrestrictive, while .ssh is very restrictive.
19:44 < BCMM> skizzy: also i recommend running ssh -v; that will tell you in detail what keys it's offering and whether they're being accepted
19:45 < BCMM> if it *is* offering the key, but the key is not accepted, then you'll need to look at sshd's logs, which will be difficult if the server isn't yours
19:45 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: I was considering stable stretch
19:45 < jim> pantato, did you ever resolve your booting issue?
19:45 < skizzy> BCMM, I tried that and I'm just getting the help / arguments listing
19:45 < Psi-Jack> Permission denied on openssh is usually a permissions error on client private key or server authorized_keys.
19:46 < skizzy> It's weird because usually i do this on a new droplet(DigitalOcean) and my keys work
19:46 < BCMM> skizzy: sorry, i mean adding -v to your existing ssh command. so it'll look something like ssh -v user@remote-host
19:47 < skizzy> BCMM, I'm seeing some rsa keys. but some i dont' recognize
19:48 < skizzy> BCMM, I'll look into permissions and some how getting this other pub key onto the server without typing the whole thing
19:49 < BCMM> skizzy: what's this "web console" thing? you say it provides shell access?
19:49 < BCMM> can you not just copy and paste?
19:49 < skizzy> yes I am in a console but I can't seem to copy and paste.
19:49 < skizzy> it's the digital ocean one that comes with it on their site
19:50 < BCMM> if you typed out the whole public key it seems virtually guaranteed that there's a typo
19:50 < Psi-Jack> noVNC basically.
19:50 < BCMM> skizzy: can you host the pub key on http and download it or something?
19:50 < skizzy> BCMM, good idea
19:50 < pingfloyd> skizzy: did you try using ssh-copy-id?
19:50 < Psi-Jack> Or stick his public key in github. :)
19:51 < skizzy> pingfloyd, yes i got permission denied(public key)
19:51 < jim> skizzy, you can use this: "if you have nc installed, you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command, for example ls -CF if you run it like this: ls -CF | nc termbin.com 9999" to give us a verbose listing of what happens when you try to connect... you can add -v, or -vv or even -vvv to show us what happens when you try to connect... like this: ssh -vv some.host.com 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
19:52 < BCMM> skizzy: that's another problem, actually. if you've got "PasswordAuthentication yes" that shouldn't be happening, it should instead ask you for a password when you don't have a valid key.
19:52 < BCMM> skizzy: have you been restarting sshd after editing sshd_config?
19:52 < skizzy> BCMM, my thoughts too
19:53 < BCMM> and are you sure you're editing the actual sshd_config that sshd is looking at?
19:53 < skizzy> jim: that's cool. I didn' tknow about that
19:53 < jim> yeah, it is pretty cool :)
19:54 < skizzy> BCMM, hmm it's the only one in /etc/ssh/ssh_config
19:54 < skizzy> BCMM, honestly i think someone is messing with me
19:54 < BCMM> skizzy: wait, /etc/ssh/ssh_config is a directory?
19:54 < skizzy> BCMM, no it's a file
19:54 < skizzy> I said that wrong
19:54 < pingfloyd> skizzy: what mode do you have set on ~/.ssh and ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
19:54 < jim> skizzy, the 2>&1 before the pipe to nc, picks up error messages and makes sure they go in the pastebin
19:54 < BCMM> skizzy: ssh_config configures the ssh client. sshd_config configures the server
19:55 < BCMM> skizzy: putting passwordauthentication yes in ssh_config won't do anything
19:55 < CyberManifest> [12:40:56] <CyberManifest> pingfloyd: you on stable branch or testing of Debian?
19:55 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: stable
19:56 < skizzy> jim: showing 0700 and 0600
19:56 < skizzy> jim: with stat
19:56 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: you been on it long?
19:56 < skizzy> BCMM, oh crap that could be it! sorry i've been at this for awhile. well just on top of what I was doing
19:57 < jim> skizzy, I don't quite understand, what are you statting?
19:57 < skizzy> the file authorized keys and hte directory ~/.ssh
19:57 < jim> oh ok
19:58 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: since 2005
19:59 < jim> skizzy, for a more complete picture, could you do this: (ls -ld ~/.ssh ; ls -lR .ssh) | nc termbin.com 9999
19:59 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: I've ran other dist for stints since then, but they usually end up lacking in comparison
20:00 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: yeah I hear ya; I actually ended up combining two distros into one, but now painfully paying for it
20:01 < jim> if you're not in your home, that's gonna turn out bad... let me give that to you again
20:01 < jim> skizzy, for a more complete picture, could you do this: (ls -ld ~/.ssh ; ls -lR ~/.ssh) | nc termbin.com 9999
20:01 < jim> there, that's better
20:02 < Uller> Hey, does anyone know any free webmail with 2x authentication that doesnt use java? Would be also good to be able to view plain text
20:02 < skizzy> jim: Idon't wanna give up the server really :)
20:02 < Psi-Jack> Uller: "2x authentication?" You mean 2FA?
20:03 < skizzy> jim: oh that's just the permissions on it right. i'll do that
20:03 < jim> skizzy, ok, do this instead...
20:03 < pingfloyd> Uller: you mean javascript?
20:03 < Uller> Psi-Jack, yes
20:03 < Uller> pingfloyd, yes
20:03 < Uller> in fact any suspcious script
20:03 < Psi-Jack> Uller: You looking for some software, or some service provider?
20:03 < Uller> service provider... software is easy
20:03 < pingfloyd> Uller: seems like all of them use javascript in a way that isn't optional
20:03 < Psi-Jack> Do you have an actual Linux question?
20:03 < Uller> I just realized that google went down the sing
20:03 < pingfloyd> plenty have 2 factor auth
20:04 < Uller> Psi-Jack, not really but I dont know any better channel because everywhere else they tell me to go google
20:04 < pingfloyd> Uller: google never had any integrity to begin with
20:04 < jim> skizzy, for a more complete picture, could you do this: (ls -ld ~/.ssh ; ls -lR ~/.ssh) > ~/outfile # then edit outfile to make sure it doesn't reveal what you don't want, then...
20:04 < Psi-Jack> Uller: Exactly. Go google. :p
20:05 < jim> cat ~/outfile | nc termbin.com 9999
20:05 < Uller> pingfloyd, I'd wish something like ascii ribbon mail be true with web interface and just security features
20:05 < Psi-Jack> Useless use of cat piping detected. :)
20:05 < Psi-Jack> nc termbin.com 9999 < outfile
20:06 < pingfloyd> I wouldn't say that is useless use of cat
20:06 < pingfloyd> more like intended use of cat
20:06 < Psi-Jack> cat concatenates.
20:06 < pingfloyd> piping isn't a sin
20:06 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: you mean their motto catchphrase of "Don't be evil" dind't have ever have merit?
20:06 < jim> useful use of cat is to kill mouse
20:07 < Psi-Jack> Also true! But if you have mouse, you have bigger problems. :)
20:07 < OnceMe> my phone said "install software on pc" and I clicked on it, while my phone was attached via cable (mtp) to my linux, is it possible that silent mode went on my linux box and installed some shady software?
20:07 < OnceMe> no dialog for install, no password prompr etc was asked from me
20:07 < Uller> Psi-Jack, I guess that most Linux users stay away from MS Outlook, GMail and YahooOath(or how it's called now).
20:08 < bls> you can have the greatest feel-good motto ever, but it's relatively meaningless if it doesn't actually reflect what you do
20:08 < jim> me have trackball!
20:08 < pingfloyd> useless use of cat would be something like cat file | grep ... instead of grep .... file
20:08 < Psi-Jack> Uller: You'd be surprised how many Linux users use Gmail.
20:08 < jim> seriously, I'd say it's a demonstrative use of cat
20:08 < Psi-Jack> jim: So do I, actually. ;)
20:09 < Uller> Psi-Jack, tell them to stay updated onlatest policies because google is going down Yahoo/Oath way
20:09 < bls> pretty much anyone that's ever owned an android phone is going to have had a google/gmail account at one point
20:09 < skizzy> sorry I can't make a > symbol on this console
20:09 < Psi-Jack> Uller: No need for me to say anything. I don't use gmail.
20:09 < pingfloyd> Uller: that's pretty much how all the online services are
20:09 < skizzy> I'm so aggravated i just want to code
20:09 < OnceMe> my phone said "install software on pc" and I clicked on it, while my phone was attached via cable (mtp) to my linux, is it possible that silent mode went on my linux box and installed some shady software? o dialog for install, no password prompr etc was asked from me
20:09 < skizzy> but there is all this server setup in my way
20:09 < pingfloyd> Uller: you can't really trust any of them.  They're all sell outs.
20:09 < skizzy> usually it just works! bu ti feel i have intruders
20:10 < meyou> OnceMe, possible, yes, likely, no
20:10 < Psi-Jack> skizzy: This is DigitalOcean?
20:10 < pingfloyd> Uller: they have no principles other than trying to cash in as big as possible
20:10 < bls> commercial entity does things to make it money...breaking news at 11
20:10 < skizzy> Psi-Jack, yes usually i select a ssh key, spin up droplet and am good to go
20:10 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: if you can't trust them who can you trust?
20:10 < Uller> pingfloyd, you are correct and I know that some of those "secure" companies also trade data with third parties but still...
20:10 < pingfloyd> Uller: all the while putting up a charade that they care about user privacy LOL
20:10 < Psi-Jack> skizzy: Their console does > and < just fine...
20:10 < Uller> pingfloyd, check where did Yahoo/AOL go and Google is closely flollowing: https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/14/17237864/oath-aol-yahoo-email-privacy-terms-scan-ads
20:10 < skizzy> my keyboard won't do it it doe s > and >
20:11 < pingfloyd> Uller: because somewhere in the fine print of TOS they mentioned how they're going to sell you out in legalese that takes a lawyer to make sense of.
20:11 < skizzy> instead. i think I'm compromised
20:11 < OnceMe> meyou: how is possible?
20:11 < jim> skizzy, ok, then: just do this: (ls -ld ~/.ssh ; ls -lR ~/.ssh) # and check to see if it has any info you don't want to be in there, and if it doesn't, do the original thing:
20:11 < bls> you can still type characters that aren't printed on your keyboard via modifiers or mode switching
20:11 < jim> skizzy, for a more complete picture, could you do this: (ls -ld ~/.ssh ; ls -lR ~/.ssh) | nc termbin.com 9999
20:11 < Uller> pingfloyd, this isn't about privacy anymore
20:11 < pingfloyd> Uller: story is no surprise
20:11 < skizzy> jim: all try that. I'm logged in as root
20:12 < Psi-Jack> Uller: The only solution is. Run your own mail server. Enjoy
20:12 < Uller> pingfloyd, these days criminals can purchase data from big companies legally and get your creditentials
20:12 < jim> then be appropriately cautious :)
20:12 < Uller> I've read about real attacks that happened when legally acquired data was used
20:12 < jim> oh, wait, who were you sshing as before?
20:13 < pingfloyd> Uller: they've been doing it all along.  Now they're being a little more above board about their unethical practices because they're being forced to.  But that doesn't stop them from trying to frame it as altruistic and getting as many pats on the back as possible.
20:13 < CyberManifest> Uller, maybe if wee feed the system with fake data so then they're at odds when it doesn't match up with reality?
20:13 < skizzy> jim: I've tried a user i made and root only
20:13 < jim> skizzy, and both were problematic?
20:13 < skizzy> jim: yes permission denied(publickey)
20:13  * Ameisen waits for the kernel to build with LTO and other stuff
20:14 < Ameisen> my diff file for this is starting to get large.
20:14 < Uller> CyberManifest, you think it's funny I've read how BTC wallet worth few millions was stolen this way
20:14 < Uller> just recently
20:14 < Ameisen> could probably give linus an aneurism, wherever he is, if I set it to build it as C++17 with -fpermissive... :|
20:15 < pingfloyd> Uller: it's kind of like how facebook updated their privacy policy.  This comes back to don't put anything on facebook you don't want the whole world to know about you.  Who in their right mind trusts facebook to keep their information secure?
20:15 < pingfloyd> to begin with
20:15 < pingfloyd> it all kind of skirts around that
20:15 < Uller> pingfloyd, there's small difference between facebook and email... email is often required for normal job application, facebook - you dont need to use
20:15 < jim> skizzy, hmm... can you try making yet another user (which you can just delete later if you want) then try sshing in... did you turn password auth off?
20:15 < skizzy> I'm stuck. just trying to get electrum running and can't deal with this console
20:16 < Ameisen> GCC takes a lot longer when you remove its restrictions on optimization depth
20:16 < Ameisen> though I'm still getting a ton of linker warnings/errors on the kernel modules
20:16 < Ameisen> they don't appear to impact actual usage, so I'm guessing it's an LTO artifact and isn't actually happening
20:16 < skizzy> jim: I tried adding PasswordAuthentication yes and now sshd won't reload but maybe that goes in ssh_config not sshd_config
20:16 < skizzy> jim: my vim was freaking out over the slow connection i may have inserted characters
20:16 < bls> Uller: do you think google, in the absense of privacy legislation, really cares about how important their service might be to you?
20:17 < pingfloyd> Uller: sure, but that's a whole different discussion
20:17 < pingfloyd> Uller: facebook is just a good and clear example of how the entire things is sham from the start and always will be.
20:17 < CyberManifest> Uller: was the money ever real to begin with? Or the victims? If so substantial facts should support that in evidence of inconsistencies \
20:17 < quebre> hello
20:17 < Uller> bls, obviously google doesnt care about users, they dont even have any support channel
20:17 < jim> skizzy, if you put it in the remote's sshd_config (and restart the sshd), it should start allowing passwords
20:17 < pingfloyd> Uller: a sham that they keep dressing up in new clothes
20:18 < Uller> bls, what google cares about is 1. AD 2. Data you provide to them so they can sell it
20:18 < quebre> 100 points question: i have dd output like this: 1228800 bytes (1.2 MB) copied, 0.0728706 s, 16.9 MB/s   <- the speed 16.9MB/s - the speed is measured using 1kb=100bytes or 1kb=1024bytes ?
20:18 < CyberManifest> Uller: I've called google tech support
20:18 < skizzy> jim: I'm going through error logs now to see why it's not reloading
20:18 < rpifan> hi all im compiling openwrt from scratch using menuconfig and such. I have a gist file with information on a particular rtl firmware id like to add but i havent had much luck asking in those channels. How do you add a source file with a new device driver when u compile linux
20:18 < pingfloyd> the usefulness of the google search engine is merely how good the bait is
20:18 < Uller> CyberManifest, was that their paid product like GSuite?
20:18 < bls> right, so unless I have a contract with a third party as it relates to what they can and can't do with my data, it may as well be considered theirs and anyone else's willing to pay for it
20:19 < pingfloyd> google cares about being good enough to attract enough user to steal information from to profit big on
20:19 < skizzy> jim: says reload failed for openbsd secure shell server
20:19 < bls> rpifan: if you don't have detailed instructions, it's not something you're going to get a 1-2 line answer to on IRC
20:19 < CyberManifest> Uller: no it was for a broken outdated phone regarding their Android secure password system; I went around their paid products
20:19 < pingfloyd> Uller: anyway, a good alternative is DDG
20:20 < skizzy> jim: i see... bad parameters i put in while it was lagging
20:20 < pingfloyd> I also find with DDG I get better result when it comes to technical things
20:20 < pingfloyd> less mindless drivel to have to sort through
20:20 < rpifan> https://gist.github.com/Ins1ghtLabs/c346f7ed4f257d1b4a2d thats the source file
20:20 < pingfloyd> i.e., less having to the 20th page to find anything worth a shit
20:20 < jim> skizzy, do you still have a root login to the server?
20:21 < pingfloyd> 19 pages of more or less spam
20:21 < pingfloyd> spam and clickbait
20:21 < skizzy> jim: yes but only through digital ocean's interface and it's slow for me for some reason
20:21 < Uller> CyberManifest, do you know any working channel to contact google or was it years ago? I've heard they even had phone support for few months
20:21 < CyberManifest> The net is just a big money tunnel anways
20:21 < Uller> pingfloyd, DDG?
20:21 < CyberManifest> Uller, let me check my call log
20:21 < Ameisen> heh
20:21 < Ameisen> without LTO, full kernel build for this is... 4 minutes
20:21 < Ameisen> with?
20:21 < Ameisen> It's been about 20
20:21 < skizzy> jim: just trying to search for characters it showed as bad lines and it won't respond :( so grrrrr
20:22 < pingfloyd> google is all about highest bidder getting the loudest voice
20:22 < bls> rpifan: that's not source code or firmware, it's just a full config file for a subsection of the kernel
20:22 < skizzy> that came out wrong :)
20:22 < Ameisen> might switch to ld.gold intead of bfd
20:22 < Ameisen> might speed up the link... though with LTO, the cost is still going to be in gcc, I guess
20:22 < pingfloyd> think of how that shapes people's thinking, education, political views, etc.
20:22 < jim> skizzy, oh ok; I think I understand
20:22 < pingfloyd> all steered by dollars
20:23 < CyberManifest> Uller: 1 (855) 836-3987
20:23 < rpifan> bls, wel is that enough can i just add it somewhere in the kernel config area
20:24 < skizzy> jim: yeah sorry. I am just at a point where I should sleep but I can't until eveyrthing is working ok
20:24 < pingfloyd> Uller: DDG as in Duckduckgo
20:24 < Uller> pingfloyd, ah but its still using google engines afaik
20:24 < bls> rpifan: you'd need to know where to add it and also obtain the source code files it's referencing
20:24 < skizzy> jim: sshd is starting and with PasswordAuthentication yes but it's not asking for a damn password
20:24 < jim> skizzy, which dist is it on the digital ocean vps?
20:25 < skizzy> jim: debian 9
20:25 < Uller> biggest google competition was old yahoo before it turned into crap... and altavista
20:25 < pingfloyd> Uller: "Our privacy policy is simple: we don't collect or share any of your personal info"
20:25 < pingfloyd> imagine that
20:25 < bls> maybe DO was smart and compiled password auth out of their sshd?
20:26 < jim> skizzy, ok, are there other people that need any kind of shell access to the server?
20:26 < Uller> CyberManifest, kay I found that number online, it seems google keeps active support for their paid products
20:26 < pingfloyd> everyone is all patting everyone else for violating their privacy a little "less than the competition", steering the conversation away from, "what give them the right to do it all in the first place?"
20:26 < skizzy> jim: that I'm not sure of. I feel people are in my local machines and code base. paranoid like that though
20:26 < skizzy> jim: things mysteriously switch around
20:27 < pingfloyd> Uller: https://duckduckgo.com/
20:27 < Ameisen> LTO does _not_ like the syscall header generator though
20:27 < CyberManifest> Uller: yeah, I just call and push numbers till I get a talking human then let them decide if they're willing to support my situation or not.
20:27 < skizzy> jim: i read that wrong
20:27 < Ameisen> since it generates them with the wrong signature
20:27 < skizzy> jim: no no one needs access right now but me
20:27 < CyberManifest> Uller: for my case I was lucky and got support
20:27 < Ameisen> ./arch/x86/include/generated/asm/syscalls_64.h:77:1: warning: type of '__x64_sys_rt_sigreturn' does not match original declaration [-Wlto-type-mismatch]
20:27 < rpifan> well i think this is the source git for it, as the one in the list no longer works bls https://github.com/gnab/rtl8812au
20:27 < Uller> pingfloyd, yeah I know this thing... also check ixquick but it also runs on google servers. I was into email as email is required, search engine is not.
20:28 < jim> skizzy, ok, so a more specific question: are there any people who log in because of a key in ~someuser/.ssh/authorized_keys?
20:28 < jim> (and that question includes the case where someuser=root)
20:29 < skizzy> jim: I don't know if digital ocean requires something for access or not but no one needs anything on it i can wipe it if i can just get access to a fresh droplet
20:29 < lewzer> anyone know how to do a new line in dokuwiki? like a <br> tag
20:30 < skizzy> jjim: if that makes sense. a rambling of words
20:31 < Uller> So now alll those big email services require phone number for signup and you can only make one account per phone number so you are actively profiled from beginning
20:31 < jim> skizzy, one thing you can try, (in stages, first stage:) remove ~yourplainusername/.ssh/authorized_keys and then try to log in
20:33 < skizzy> jim: ok give me a moment i have to check on something but will give it a shot
20:35 < skizzy> jim: did that and still the same error
20:36 < skizzy> I've tried everything i know so I'll listen
20:36 < jim> skizzy, ok, can you run apt from the digital ocean console?
20:36 < skizzy> jim: yes
20:37 < Uller> CyberManifest, if you want some good laugh about how google support looks like then go to their gmail forums and read messages
20:37 < jim> skizzy, ok, what we're going to try now, is uninstalling the sshd and reinstalling it... you up for that?
20:38 < Uller> its all spammed with fake service phone numbers that are often used to get data out of normal users, like passwords
20:38 < skizzy> jim: sure
20:38 < Uller> google doesnt care
20:38 < jim> ok, run this:
20:38 < jim> skizzy (only please, no one else do this :): apt purge openssh-server
20:39 < pingfloyd> Uller: I think the only solution to really have privacy would be to host your own email
20:39 < pingfloyd> Uller: you really can't trust any of the providers
20:39 < Uller> pingfloyd, I'm not even that concerned but those emails are simply insecure
20:39 < Psi-Jack> Which I said 30 minutes ago.
20:39 < pingfloyd> and how knows how much you can trust the ones that are marketing themselves as ones that care about privacy
20:40 < pingfloyd> Uller: insecure in which way?
20:40 < pingfloyd> Uller: from third party eavesdropping?
20:40 < kilo> If you have a google account, you can kiss your privacy goodbye
20:40 < Psi-Jack> heh. Email secure? Paaahhh!
20:40 < pingfloyd> TLS helps with that
20:40 < jim> Psi-Jack, well of course removing the sshd is something of an extreme action
20:40 < Psi-Jack> Helps, but does not actually solve.
20:40 < Uller> pingfloyd, no, from code injection for example... I know it's much less issue on Linux but its also possible
20:41 < pingfloyd> and most of them support it nowadays, but the problem is still trusting them with the info at all
20:41 < kilo> might as well post you social security # on facebook
20:41 < Psi-Jack> jim: Yeah, that's a bit randomly extreme, in my eyes.
20:41 < pingfloyd> kilo: surprised that facebook doesn't ask you for it
20:42 < pingfloyd> kilo: they want to know everything else about you
20:42 < kilo> ya
20:42 < kilo> they're always watching
20:42 < Psi-Jack> skizzy: on your client host: ssh-add -l | wc -l: What's the result?
20:42 < pingfloyd> it just hasn't become normalized enough.  Asking for SSN still sends up warning light even for the clueless still.
20:42 < Uller> speaking of Linux, wasn't Ubuntu invasive?
20:42 < kilo> *cough cough* cambridge analytica *cough cough*
20:42 < pingfloyd> give it time
20:43 < Psi-Jack> Uller: if you consider a search engine searching things like amazon too, being invasive.
20:43 < skizzy> jim: wc invalid option
20:43 < kilo> ubuntu is good
20:43 < pingfloyd> eventually everyone will be giving out their SSN to random strangers in ivory towers
20:43 < jim> Psi-Jack, for one thing, it's late night for him, and he's tired; digital ocean's console means he keeps access even if he doesnt' have an sshd, so at least there's that
20:43 < jim> skizzy, ok, then try this: apt-get purge openssh-server
20:43 < Psi-Jack> skizzy: wc -l, not wc -l:
20:43 < Psi-Jack> heh
20:44 < skizzy> Are you fucking wiht me!? :)
20:44 < Psi-Jack> Mind the language please, and no, I'm not/
20:44 < kilo> heehe
20:44 < skizzy> Oh sorry
20:44 < pingfloyd> kilo: hell, I remember back in the 80s when I worked for a market research company.  They'd get listings to call for surveys.  One of the things we were required to ask for was their SSN>
20:44 < pingfloyd> kilo: it amazing me how many would actually provide that info
20:44 < skizzy> I don't see the difference in the characters. sorry
20:44 < pingfloyd> *amazes to this day
20:45 < Psi-Jack> skizzy: ssh-add -l | wc -l
20:45 < Psi-Jack> Should return a number.
20:45 < pingfloyd> maybe 1 out of 20 had sense to say, "WTF do you need my SSN for?" or "You're not getting that info *click*"
20:45 < skizzy> jim: I did that
20:45 < kilo> he
20:45 < Psi-Jack> I'm not jim./
20:45 < kilo> hehe
20:46 < skizzy> Psi-Jack, oh I haven't done that yet. about to try but all i see is a -l
20:46 < jim> Psi-Jack, he means he purged the sshd
20:46 < Psi-Jack> Oh.. :/
20:46 < skizzy> Psi-Jack, returned 1
20:46 < jim> skizzy, ok, now we put it back: apt install openssh-server
20:47 < Psi-Jack> Okay. Hmm.. Not multiple keys problem. :)
20:47 < pingfloyd> it's also funny how a whole racket of a industry has risen up to "protect your info".
20:47 < pingfloyd> snake oil like Lifelock etc.
20:47 < pingfloyd> paying someone to do nothing for you
20:47 < pingfloyd> and possibly be selling off you info behind your back as well
20:47 < Uller> pingfloyd, anyhow for emails I paritally like vfe but it has plenty of issues
20:47 < Uller> yet it allow full text mode in browser
20:48 < Uller> attachments are represented by solid lnks
20:48 < jim> pingfloyd, I'm pretty sure the reason for all those "free credit report" sites, is so they can also read your credit report
20:48 < Psi-Jack> pingfloyd: Hey, I'll protect your privacy for a monthly fee of $2,000, your first born child, your left leg, right hand, and every penny you own. I'll just need your Social Security Number, all of your credit card numbers, your bank account number and routing number, mother's maiden name. Security questions and their answers, etc.. ;)
20:48 < pingfloyd> jim: yeah, who in their right mind trust those
20:49 < pingfloyd> it's bad enough going to equifax's site to check it
20:49 < pingfloyd> the lords over your credit score
20:49 < Uller> if you want to have good laught go Reagan.com
20:49 < jim> right exactly... but unfortunately equifax already has your credit info
20:50 < Psi-Jack> And then some.
20:50 < pingfloyd> yeah, you're already screwed with equifax once you got an ssn
20:50 < Psi-Jack> They actually DO know what you did last summer. And the summer before that, and the summer before that... and the ....
20:50 < skizzy> jim: ok installed
20:50 < jim> skizzy, ok, try sshing in as a plain user
20:50 < pingfloyd> really, all of it should be illegal
20:51 < Psi-Jack> THAT I agree with.
20:51 < pingfloyd> it's layers of conning upon conning
20:51 < pingfloyd> it's just an abstracted enough scam to be legal
20:51 < skizzy> jim: ok getting something different. host key validation failed after it added a host key
20:51 < Psi-Jack> And yet, the USA is the only country to have it at all. Other countries, like Japan don't have that sort of thing, but they do just fine.
20:52 < pingfloyd> why should any company be privy to any of it and be allowed such control?
20:52 < Psi-Jack> skizzy: Yeah, your client cached the old host key and a new one was generated by the reinstall.
20:52 < jim> skizzy, does it show the offending key on your local machine?
20:52 < Psi-Jack> ssh-keygen -R <name> to remove it.
20:52 < Uller> Psi-Jack, if you go official google support forums, they are literally spammed by people pretending to be google tech support asking for calls to fake phone numbers, and it's like that for long time
20:52 < jim> skizzy, and a command to remove it?
20:52 < Uller> google just doesnt even care
20:52 < pingfloyd> how did we ever skip past that important discussion to begin with?
20:52 < Uller> that their support forums are used for fraud and scam
20:52 < skizzy> jim: yes with the -f argument
20:52 < pingfloyd> (we as in society)
20:53 < jim> skizzy, ok run that command on your local machine as the user you tried to ssh as
20:53 < CyberManifest> https://tech.slashdot.org/story/18/06/27/2233234/facebook-google-and-microsoft-use-design-to-trick-you-into-handing-over-your-data-report-warns
20:53 < skizzy> jim: ok ran and it generated a new key
20:54 < jim> cool, try sshing again
20:54 < pingfloyd> like if you want to throw a few ads at me to pay for the service, fine as long as it's safe (malware free) and not targeted (collect no user information).  I might even be less inclined to block advertisement if it were handled that way.
20:54 < skizzy> jim: I'm in if i can remember the password :)
20:54 < skizzy> jim: thanks
20:54 < jim> welcome
20:55 < CyberManifest> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17409077
20:55 < jim> you can change the password from the digital ocean console
20:56 < jim> skizzy, we're not quite done yet
20:56 < CyberManifest> https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/27/google-ups-its-linux-foundation-membership-to-the-500000-year-platinum-level/
20:56 < skizzy> jim: ok
20:57 < CyberManifest> Uller doesn't care enough to up it's Linux Foundation Membership to 500,000 year platinum level?
20:57 < jim> skizzy, when you ssh into the remote's root account, do you do that as the plain user on the local machine?
20:57 < skizzy> jim: how did hte new key get to the server? I guess not it's using passwords now. it was using the key because it existed?
20:57 < skizzy> on the client machine
20:57 < skizzy> system. whatever the word is now :)
20:57 < jim> skizzy, the server generated a new key when you installed openssh-server
20:58 < Uller> CyberManifest, so it's voluntary payment or quid pro quo? "let us put ad in linux"
20:59 < CyberManifest> Uller ask the other 800 members
20:59 < ayecee> https://i.imgur.com/w7JBnP1.gif
20:59 < BCMM> skizzy: note that "host keys" are different from the key pairs you're using to authenticate your ssh client
20:59 < jim> skizzy, one thing you should know... when we purged and reinstalled the server, it replaced the ssh and sshd configs with new copies with all defaults on the server
21:00 < BCMM> skizzy: they're keys that authenticate the *server*, so your client can detect if somebody is pretending to be the server. as jim points out, they're usually autogenerated either when sshd is installed or when it's first started
21:00 < CyberManifest> "With this, Google joins AT&T, Cisco, Fujitsu, Hitachi, Huawei, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, NEC, Oracle, Qualcomm, Samsung and VMware as a Platinum member, but it’s worth remembering that the Linux Foundation now has more than 800 members at all levels."
21:01 < BCMM> but it doesn't invalidate the *other* keys, that you're using (or trying to use) instead of a password
21:01 < skizzy> understood
21:01 < jim> I got a couple IRL things, back in a couple minutes to finish this
21:01 < skizzy> ok I'll be around
21:03 < CyberManifest> "Google notes that it has released and contributed to more than 10,000 open-source projects to date, including Linux Foundation-managed projects like Cloud Foundry, Node.js, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (the project behind the Kubernetes container orchestration service) and the Open API Initiative."
21:04 < Uller> CyberManifest, linux never needed any of thse, they sound like windws features
21:04 < Uller> cloud, cloud, js
21:05 < CyberManifest> Uller: needed or not it's there for users to use or not use
21:05 < Uller> yeah its actually for their chromeos probably just nicely packe
21:05 < Uller> packed
21:06 < CyberManifest> Uller: but it hardly reflects the notion of "not caring"
21:06 < CyberManifest> Node.js is not for ChromeOS
21:06 < Uller> linux was fine before some foundation came to motion and will be fine after it dies
21:06 < CyberManifest> "Linux Foundation-managed projects"
21:07 < Uller> Just wait until they will try to purchase executive rights to kernel or smth
21:07 < CyberManifest> Uller: after it dies; lol, when are you expecting that to happen with Industry Titans and over 800 Members?
21:08 < pingfloyd> makes it more tempting to switch over to BSD
21:09 < koala_man> it's too big to ever die, like Kodak and Blockbuster
21:09  * strixdio feels the nostolgia of blockbuster
21:09 < CyberManifest> koala_man: those weren't a group of organizations; those were measly single entity businesses
21:09 < Uller> Linux was never about big companies, you can see how part of development could be defendant on funding
21:10 < jim> skizzy, hi, done with irl stuff, still here?
21:10 < pingfloyd> the average user is in denial about how much they're being violated anyway
21:10 < pingfloyd> you talk privacy or security issue with the average user and they play advocate for the big companies
21:10 < pingfloyd> like well trained slave thinkers
21:11 < Uller> I know secret google policy that is "functionality over security"
21:11 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: I agree
21:11 < strixdio> pingfloyd: to be clear, average user of what? I'm just coming into this convo lol
21:11 < pingfloyd> strixdio: average computer user in general
21:11  * strixdio nods
21:11 < pingfloyd> strixdio: what's really sad is the percentage that think that way on this network
21:11 < strixdio> :S
21:11 < pingfloyd> strixdio: you'd think more freenode users would know better
21:11 < Uller> "functionality over security" means, lets use this flash here and java there and some outdated things because people love it!!!!!
21:12  * strixdio dislikes flash and java
21:12 < strixdio> pingfloyd: one would think that.
21:12 < jim> flava?
21:12 < strixdio> LOL
21:12 < CyberManifest> Uller: what can we do when the Bullies run the Hardware?
21:13 < pingfloyd> turn their hardware against them?
21:13 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: the average user isn't skilled for that
21:13 < pingfloyd> i.e., spy on them like they spy on everyone else and expose them
21:13 < Uller> you got hardware spyware to
21:13 < Uller> just check any chineese brand
21:14 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: we only need a few skilled enough.  The rest just need to keep an open mind and hear things out.
21:14 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: but how likely is that to happen vs the incentive of money from the Titans?
21:14 < pingfloyd> CyberManifest: we have all the information leaks to thank for exposing them thus far.
21:15 < Uller> but our statistics show that people love it!!!!!!!!
21:15 < CyberManifest> lol
21:16 < CyberManifest> Uller: I bet they do, I bet they do :D
21:17 < pingfloyd> and they're candid statistics since we lifted the info without the user's knowledge or understanding.
21:17 < pingfloyd> that's real in character of how they always spin their evil deed into sound like something positive.
21:17 < jelly> Uller: functionality over security is policy of 90% of the companies everywhere, except for the tiny bit of security that's actively enforced by law (like seat belts and roll cages)
21:17 < pingfloyd> if a person were enough of a sucker, they'd believe they're all altruist trying to make a world a better place like they want everyone to believe.
21:18 < kilo> this is getting spicy
21:18 < CyberManifest> pingfloyd: and what you suggested before about use their hardware against them; sometimes that includes software too because of how ingrained their hardware standards bleed over to their software; so I.E. we have to keep using what we don't like? Keep getting screwed? Like if I want to spy on Google, do I have to keep using Google to spy on Google?
21:18 < Uller> jelly, the problem is lack of such competition that would make it interesting for end-user
21:18 < kilo> YES
21:19 < pingfloyd> like when the googles say, "We care about your privacy so we'd made some changes to our privacy policy", when in actuality they've figured out more loop holes to bend you over even more and make it sound like they're benefiting you
21:19 < pingfloyd> "We changed our policies because we care"
21:19 < eagle> hello, how can I replace the GNU operating system systemd/linux?
21:19 < eagle> +with
21:20 < pingfloyd> uhm no, you changed them because you were forced to, because even the idiots in legislation managed to finally catch on to your scam a little bit.
21:20 < bls> like: "we've improved our privacy settings (and disabled anything you may have set previously in the hopes you don't check)"
21:20 < jelly> eagle: install something else?  Are you asking about migrating useful data or what?
21:20 < jim> skizzy, hi. I'm back; you still here? I see your irc client is
21:20 < eagle> yes migrating to systemd/linux
21:20 < pingfloyd> eagle: you missed it
21:20 < jelly> eagle: from what?
21:20 < eagle> from GNU
21:20 < pingfloyd> eagle: we already got the obligatory systemd flamefest out of the way today
21:21 < jim> eagle, can you restate your original question?
21:21 < jelly> eagle: what actual OS did you install?
21:21 < Uller> pingfloyd, the sole fact that they can change polices like that is horrible
21:21 < kilo> nano or emacs?
21:21 < eagle> sorry I don't have 13 fingers
21:21 < eagle> jelly, no, my mom did
21:21 < eagle> probably GNU/hurd
21:21 < kilo> WHEEEEEE FINGERS
21:21 < kilo> or bsd
21:21 < jim> kilo, I use both, and others as well
21:21 < kilo> preference?
21:22 < Uller> pingfloyd, they could at least give you time period until it expires
21:22 < Uller> pingfloyd, but instead you can sign some stuff today and they will change it tommorow
21:22 < jelly> eagle: ask her if she remembers then.  We don't have the information YOUR MOM has.
21:22 < eagle> and no, my mom isn't trans
21:22 < jelly> except jim.  He knows what your mom did.
21:23 < pingfloyd> Uller: what we really need is a site that goes through changes in privacy policies and terms of services and explains what they're really doing.
21:23 < kilo> I should install ubuntu on my potato
21:23 < jim> well I like them both as opposed to vi* because they're not modal... between them, probably emacs
21:23 < kilo> or a vm
21:23 < skizzy> jim: yes I am. just messing around on the server
21:23 < pingfloyd> most users aren't going to understand any of the legalese much less catch any weasel wording in them.
21:23 < kilo> my potato probably can't handle virtualbox or whatever there is for debian
21:24 < CyberManifest> jim, kilo, but you'll still use the Titan's Hardware and in essence their drivers of sorts; weather it be Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Google, Amazon, AMD, etc. so you're fondling Titan Hardware with Free Software :/
21:24 < jim> ok ok, so the next thing on your plain user, we gotta get your ssh key to the server, this time via ssh... first, which key do you want to use? it should be in ~/.ssh
21:24 < CyberManifest> jim: still at the whems of the bully
21:24 < eagle> have you tried tatoe-linux?
21:24 < kilo> meh
21:24 < pingfloyd> hell, the average person can't see the weasel words in advertisement.  Hence of herbal supplements and diet scam programs are so popular and lucrative.
21:24 < kilo> yes
21:25 < eagle> and toe-chesse-linux?
21:25 < kilo> I can run ubuntu on my potato
21:25 < skizzy> jim: I got a id_pub file in my ~/.ssh for this user I'd like to use
21:25 < skizzy> I have
21:25 < skizzy> <-- speaks broken english :)
21:25 < Psi-Jack> kilo: This again?
21:25 < jim> skizzy, exact name is id_rsa.pub?
21:25 < kilo> yes
21:26 < jim> I used to run potato on my computer...
21:26 < skizzy> jim: yes I meant that
21:26 < kilo> no my computer is a potato
21:26 < kilo> running ubuntu mate
21:26 < CyberManifest> kilo: using intel chipsets ?
21:27 < jim> ok, and the full path to that file is then: ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub?
21:27 < pingfloyd> as a plus if you get hungy, you can fry up your computer and eat it
21:27 < kilo> no
21:27 < skizzy> jim: correct
21:27 < kilo> arm
21:27 < kilo> cortex a53
21:27 < CyberManifest> kilo: who do you think sets ARM standards?
21:27 < kilo> with a whopping 64 gb of storage
21:28 < kilo> ARM of course
21:28 < Uller> jelly, When you want linux for functionality you compile for functionality and when you want for security you compile for security and when you want google you get hamburger. One size fits all.
21:28 < kilo> ya know?
21:28 < CyberManifest> kilo: nope, for it to be interoprable and actually usable it has to conform to industry standards usually set by the likes of Microsoft, Intel, and others.
21:28 < jim> skizzy, ok, then run this: ssh-copy-id -i ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub (put server IP here)
21:29 < kilo> WELL IT RUNS
21:29 < kilo> SO HA!
21:29 < skizzy> jim: key accepted
21:29 < jim> skizzy, do you have a user on your remote the same name as the plain user on your local machine?
21:29 < IPoAC> hey hey, question, I want to echo a message to UNIX socket, using Manjaro, wondering how to?
21:29 < pingfloyd> cpus that run?  Oh how low the bar has gotten
21:30 < ayecee> IPoAC: same way you echo a message to a file
21:30 < kilo> I know right
21:30 < skizzy> jim: not with the same name exactly
21:30 < IPoAC> googling not so good for that one
21:30 < lordvadr> IPoAC: echo "My message" > /path/to/socket
21:30 < pingfloyd> well, expecting them to not have backdoors seems to be asking a lot these days (so sad)
21:30 < CyberManifest> Running Spuds
21:31 < jim> skizzy, ok, then the ssh-copy-id will need the ip specified as remoteusername@serverIP
21:31 < CyberManifest> Spudnick?
21:31 < jelly> Uller: that only works with magical compilers
21:31 < skizzy> jim: yeah that's how i'm used to connecting
21:31 < jim> but you must have done that since it was accepted
21:31 < kilo> my potato is not vulnerable to meltdown/spectre
21:31 < IPoAC> I guess I done it wrong then getting > echo "test" >> /home/d/Documents/dcrn/sock
21:31 < jim> ok, try sshing to it now
21:31 < FreeFull> My mozarella is vulnerable to meltdown
21:32 < jim> pizza cheezy
21:32 < ayecee> my potato is vulnerable to mozarella
21:32 < FreeFull> ayecee: With a bit of salt and butter?
21:32 < jelly> better with butter tho
21:32 < jelly> ha
21:32 < skizzy> jim: logs in. I'm assuming it's using the key now since it exists
21:32 < kilo> my potato has HDMI
21:32 < kilo> somehow
21:32 < ayecee> might be undercooked
21:33 < FreeFull> Butter is vulnerable to meltdown via hot potato
21:33 < CyberManifest> kilo: Wrong: https://www.networkworld.com/article/3246707/data-center/meltdown-and-spectre-how-much-are-arm-and-amd-exposed.html
21:33 < jim> skizzy, ok, now we're done with your plain user... do you want your local plain user to connect to the remote as root?
21:33 < jelly> FreeFull: how is it that a cooked potato with butter and salt is better than 90% of fancy recipes
21:33 < kilo> potatoes aren't computers
21:33 < kilo> seriously
21:33 < kilo> but ya
21:33 < kilo> i know
21:34 < skizzy> jim: I'm ok with non root if I cna su to it
21:34 < jim> my potato has a first name, is o s c a r...
21:34 < FreeFull> GLaDOS somehow ran on a potato
21:34 < kilo> my potato is connected to the interwebs
21:34 < ayecee> common misconception. merely powered by a potato.
21:34 < kilo> with wifi
21:34 < jim> I tried running on a potato..., slipped...
21:34 < meyou> potato is a good source of carbohydrates
21:35 < meyou> i bet a lot of people in here are running on potato right now
21:35 < kilo> jim: how fast is yoour potato?
21:35 < ayecee> carbohydrates for making vodka
21:35 < jim> kilo, dunno... I ate it
21:35 < kilo> meyou: my pc is a potato
21:35 < kilo> great
21:36 < kilo> jim: what sort of hardware are you on?
21:36 < jim> skizzy, ok, let's at least try it
21:36 < jim> kilo, i5 on an asus mobo
21:36 < kilo> my cpu is a potato chip
21:37 < kilo> actually broadcom bcm2835
21:37 < skizzy> jim: ok
21:37 < kilo> get it??? potato chip???
21:37 < kilo> hahahahaa
21:37 < kilo> that was bad
21:38 < jim> see what happens if you run (as your local plain user) ssh root@remoteIP
21:39 < skizzy> jim: prompted for password
21:39 < jim> ok, when you enter the root password, does it connect?
21:39 < skizzy> jim: permission denied publickey, password
21:39 < jim> probably it's configured that way
21:41 < jim> ok, try sshing into the server, then su to root
21:41 < jim> make sure you can do that
21:41 < skizzy> jim: works
21:42 < pingfloyd> skizzy: better to use su or sudo instead of logging into ssh directly as root anyway
21:42 < jim> ok good... optionally, you can add your local plain user ssh key to root@remoteIP's authorized_keys
21:42 < skizzy> I was wondering about sudo. Should I even do it?
21:42 < jim> want to do that?
21:42 < skizzy> It's convenient yeah
21:42 < skizzy> sure we can add sudo
21:42 < jim> ok, we can't use ssh-copy-id, have to do it another way
21:43 < pingfloyd> skizzy: sure
21:44 < KOLANICH> hello everybody. is it possible to fake programm exit code?
21:44 < koala_man> what do you mean?
21:45 < jim> skizzy, scp ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub plainuser@remoteIP: # colon is intended
21:45 < KOLANICH> I mean that if programA arg1 returns 1 then I need something like fakeExitCode 0 porgramA arg1 return 0
21:46 < r0ck1085t3r> 19:23 < pingfloyd> Uller: what we really need is a site that goes through changes in privacy policies and terms of services and explains what they're really doing.
21:46 < r0ck1085t3r> 19:23 < pingfloyd> Uller: what we really need is a site that goes through changes in privacy policies and terms of services and explains what they're really doing.
21:46 < r0ck1085t3r> 19:23 < pingfloyd> Uller: what we really need is a site that goes through changes in privacy policies and terms of services and explains what they're really doing.
21:46 < r0ck1085t3r> 19:23 < pingfloyd> Uller: what we really need is a site that goes through changes in privacy policies and terms of services and explains what they're really doing.
21:46 < Uller> wow
21:46 < r0ck1085t3r> opps
21:46 < r0ck1085t3r> check https://tosdr.org
21:46 < koala_man> KOLANICH: is this from a shell? if so, you don't need to fake it, you can just do  programA arg1 || true
21:47 < jim> r0ck1085t3r, careful :) here's something handy: if you have nc installed, you can pastebin the output of an arbitrary command, for example ls -CF if you run it like this: ls -CF | nc termbin.com 9999
21:47 < KOLANICH> koala_man, I'll try, thank you!
21:48 < jim> skizzy, and let me know when that's done
21:49 < skizzy> jim: had something weird happen. broken pipe then when i went to login again it said signing failed: agent refused connection
21:49 < skizzy> jim: i just got back to keyboard
21:49 < jim> oh ok
21:49 < skizzy> jim: it was just working fine though
21:49 < jim> did you do that from the local machine?
21:49 < skizzy> yes
21:50 < jim> ok, try sshing in again
21:50 < skizzy> jim: same thing i don't want to enter my password because of it
21:51 < rpifan> bls, you still in. I found i can use a different makefile to make the kernel module but how do i find out what platform its gonna run on. Its ahttps://wikidevi.com/wiki/GL.iNet_GL-AR150
21:51 < jim> so you're getting a message but it does prompt for your password?
21:51 < skizzy> jim: yes
21:52 < jim> ok, it must be something you had done after we finished with your ssh key?
21:52 < skizzy> jim: I didn't do anything but I suspect sabatoge
21:53 < jim> wait, are you sshing to root@remoteIP?
21:53 < skizzy> sabotage
21:53 < skizzy> no user@
21:53 < skizzy> I didn't enter the other command you gave yet
21:53 < skizzy> I just went to have a smoke then came back and broken pipe and now that
21:53 < jim> ok
21:55 < jim> do you still have a connection through the digital ocean console?
21:55 < skizzy> I'll check
21:55 < jim> generally you want to fire up a separate term and connect to the digital ocean console through that
21:56 < jim> and keep that connection open
21:56 < pingfloyd> I find it weird how the last few firefox updates have had files with ownership 500:500
21:57 < skizzy> jim: but I see some things ufw blocked
21:57 < pingfloyd> I think the devs spaced before packaging it or something
21:57 < skizzy> jim: i mena yeah i have access
21:57 < jim> ok
21:57 < skizzy> saying window=1024 etc sounds like xserver stuff?
21:57 < skizzy> oh window on a packet
21:57 < skizzy> nevermind
21:58 < jim> what we should do is shut off password auth on the server
21:58 < skizzy> ok
21:58 < justsomeguy> Do you think amazon AWS's cloud practitioner certification would help with getting an entry level support gig with a WordPress managed webhosting company?
21:58 < Ellied> I'm having a problem where rfkill always says my wifi card is 'hard blocked' and can't ever be turned on. There is a hardware wifi button, but it only toggles the 'soft blocked' state, and not the 'hard blocked' one. Is this definitely a hardware problem, or is there a possible software problem?
21:58 < jim> then restart sshd, then change your passwords
21:58 < Psi-Jack> justsomeguy: Not so much with that specific, no.
21:58 < MrElendig> Ellied: hard blocked == physical switch (or broken firmware)
21:59 < jim> that's really weird that happened
21:59 < justsomeguy> I also have a long term goal of getting into a site reliability engineer position.
21:59 < Ellied> why does the soft block state change when I press the button, though
21:59 < rpifan> it seems the device is a mips24k the atheros ar9331, but i dont see that particular module when it says config_platform
21:59 < rpifan> any help anyone
22:00 < skizzy> jim: PasswordAuthentication no righ on sshd_config
22:00 < jim> right, then restart sshd
22:01 < jim> then we should find all the connections
22:01 < jim> is anyone else in the building with you
22:01 < jim> ?\
22:02 < Ellied> I wish I had another machine with a miniPCIe slot so I could test this card in another system
22:02 < skizzy> jim: some how they closed my window and irc
22:02 < skizzy> jim: They are in my system
22:02 < skizzy> jim: I'm trying to do it
22:02 < jim> hmm.
22:04 < jim> skizzy, is there anyone else in the building with you?
22:04 < skizzy> jim: yes a bunch of ppl around me all the time spying
22:04 < skizzy> jim: It's like a gang on me
22:05 < skizzy> jim: I try to lock my door b=ut i'm in a shed it's on property
22:05 < jim> skizzy, ok, are you at work?
22:05 < skizzy> jim: no I'm at home
22:05 < jim> and you have visitors?
22:05 < skizzy> jim: My neighbors out here are in on it i'm quite sure or it could be remote
22:06 < skizzy> jim: yes it's out of my control
22:06 < skizzy> I'm just a lowly developer trying to make stuff and being spyed on
22:06 < skizzy> attacked really
22:06 < skizzy> i did what you said
22:07 < skizzy> I could be paranoid but this is intense at times lol :)
22:07 < jim> that prevents new non-key logins, but it doesn't kick anyone out
22:07 < skizzy> yeah if i wanted to see logged in users the command users isnt enough is it
22:07 < skizzy> I got 3 in there now but probably all me :)
22:07 < jim> skizzy, ok, do you have that connection to the digital ocean console through a separate term?
22:08 < skizzy> jim: I got regular ssh terminal access now
22:08 < jim> how did you get that?
22:08 < skizzy> it came back after I changed the sshd_config and reloaded ssh
22:09 < jim> btw, at some point you should check your PMs
22:09 < skizzy> but no idea why
22:09 < jim> oh, so the key works now?
22:12 < Psi-Jack> Sounds rather... creepy, to be in a shed, and people ganging up and spying on you... *chuckles*
22:15 < jim> Psi-Jack, yeah, he probably feels very creeped out right now
22:17 < pingfloyd> skizzy: living in a shed like Bubbles?
22:17 < cloudbud> how can i check if the website is up and running
22:18 < pingfloyd> skizzy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I72sWzXCvvw
22:18 < brrn> cloudbud: ping it
22:19 < pingfloyd> skizzy: I bet it is a Lahey and Randy attacking you
22:19 < tds> ping isn't that useful to determine if a site is actually up, curl will be more helpful
22:19 < phogg> cloudbud: connect to it on whatever port it is listening on
22:20 < cloudbud> ok
22:20 < phogg> wget or telnet to try an http connection would be good, so would pointing your normal browser at it
22:20 < phogg> or curl, sure
22:25 < searedvandal> isitup.org
22:26 < x45> Heya
22:28 < timmay> i need some help getting a subdomain to work on apache
22:29 < x45> any Linux distro that supports secure boot, or supplies a key?
22:29 < x45> except for Ubuntu
22:30 < lnnb> how secure do you need it to be
22:30 < x45> so secure that it boots with secure boot enabled
22:31 < djph> timmay: vhost?
22:31 < lnnb> is CDROM adequate?
22:31 < x45> when I add the key to bios
22:31 < DLange> x45: Fedora
22:31 < infinisil> timmay: What's this got to do with linux
22:31 < x45> know of any other?
22:31 < lnnb> or do you fear someone might replace your cdrom firmware
22:32 < rpifan> how do i know what CONFIG_PLATFORM_MIPS_AR9132  covers
22:32 < rpifan> which kind of chips are considered mips ar9132
22:32 < koala_man> x45: why don't you find a list of distros and go check instead
22:32 < x45> I tried
22:33 < x45> but I couldn't really find one
22:33 < DLange> depends on how much work you want to put in, x45. You can get secure boot to work with any Linux kernel...
22:33 < koala_man> x45: distrowatch.com
22:34 < pingfloyd> secure boot is worthless
22:34 < pingfloyd> false sense of security
22:35 < koala_man> how so?
22:36 < pingfloyd> because of stupidity like this https://www.wired.com/2016/08/microsoft-secure-boot-hack/
22:36 < x45> I just need it enabled for company resins
22:36 < x45> reasons
22:36 < pingfloyd> the idea that you can make a "backdoor" for good purposes and it will never be abused.
22:37 < x45> koala_man thanks
22:37 < pingfloyd> it's like what century are we living in where those lessons haven't been taught again and again
22:38 < pingfloyd> here's another https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/len-20241
22:39 < koala_man> pingfloyd: don't these things apply equally well to HTTPS?
22:40 < pingfloyd> and another https://www.computerworld.com/article/3090950/security/firmware-exploit-can-defeat-new-windows-security-features-on-lenovo-thinkpads.html
22:41 < pingfloyd> https://www.pcworld.com/article/3091766/security/lenovo-thinkpwn-uefi-exploit-also-affects-products-from-other-vendors.html
22:46 < pingfloyd> anyway it comes back to the need to secure physical access
22:46 < pingfloyd> as always
22:46 < timmay> Its linux mint, ubuntu, and apache. am I in the wrong channel?
22:47 < pingfloyd> TIMMAY! thats fine.
22:48 < Psi-Jack> Mint AND Ubuntu at the same time?
22:49 < pingfloyd> x45: anyway, I wouldn't worry to much about getting secure boot working.  It's more of a security placebo in practice.
22:49 < timmay> Mint based on debian/ubuntu
22:49 < Psi-Jack> Which? They have both. :p
22:49 < rpifan> in the config_platform how do u know what processors correspond to the linux designaition, is there a list
22:50 < timmay> probably!
22:50 < timmay> :)
22:50 < Psi-Jack> No, really, they do.
22:50 < Psi-Jack> Linux Mint, based on Ubuntu with their overlay of packages.
22:50 < Psi-Jack> LMDE, or Linux Mint Debian Edition, based on Debian sid, with their overlay of packages.
22:51 < pingfloyd> x45: it's much more important to control physical access
22:51 < timmay> Ive almost got it but when I go to the subdomain it brings up the main domain.
22:52 < x45> ikr
22:52 < timmay> I created a test.php file in the subdomain folder and request that one by name and it serves it up.
22:53 < timmay> i put both in the same .conf file and made sure the subdomain was before the main domain.
22:53 < ghosalmartin> anyone know why CONFIG_VT would cause bootloops and the inability to access console-ramoops
22:53 < timmay> i a2ensite and reload apache
22:53 < Psi-Jack> rpifan: "you"
22:54 < Ellied> are we really shorthand-shaming in here today
22:54 < pingfloyd> x45: like if I recovered a stolen laptop, I'd error on the side of caution regardless of whether secure boot was working or not.  e.g., reflash the firmware and reinstall the OS.
22:55 < alexandre9099> can i force a 19:9 resolution on a 16:10 display (i'm using an hdmi to vga adapter, not sure if relevant)
22:55 < alexandre9099> ?
22:55 < alexandre9099> if yes, how?
22:56 < Ellied> alexandre9099: what kind of system is this?
22:56 < alexandre9099> arch with plasma/kde (well, i guess i should also ask on #archlinux)
22:57 < pingfloyd> even that may not be enough for a skilled enough attacker, like one that knows some electronics and integrates a keylogger device into the motherboard.
22:57 < infinisil> timmay: There's a pretty big #httpd channel
22:57 < pingfloyd> but most cases it's going to be some tweaker stealing it and planning on selling it for drugs
22:57 < Ellied> alexandre9099: I think forcing resolutions is usually done through xrandr, you should be able to find good tutorials by googling for 'xrandr force resolution' or something
22:58 < Ellied> whether or not your display stretches or letterboxes the result is probably down to the display itself, though.
22:58 < searedvandal> alexandre9099, cvt and xrandr, you'll have to add a new mode to xrandr in order to do it since I guess you won't find it as a standard mode your screen supports
22:59 < alexandre9099> hmm, so there is no way to add horizontal stripes (at least in a way that it is suposed to be that expected behaviour)
23:00 < alexandre9099> ?
23:00 < searedvandal> not that I know of. can I ask what you need 19:9 for? first time I've ever heard of 19:9
23:01 < alexandre9099> my bad, i meant 16:9 :D
23:01 < pingfloyd> do you have to use the hdmi to vga adapter?
23:01 < pingfloyd> I bet it's preventing edid from working properly
23:02 < alexandre9099> yes, display is vga only :D
23:03 < searedvandal> try forcing it via xrandr and see how the display reacts
23:03 < alexandre9099> ok, i'll see how to do it, thanks :)
23:03 < pingfloyd> is it a CRT?
23:04 < timmay> infinisil, thanks...checking it out
23:04 < alexandre9099> pingfloyd, lcd, i am not sure how the backlight tech is called,but it's not led
23:05 < pingfloyd> do you know what it's native resolution is?
23:05 < alexandre9099> 1444x900 IIRC
23:05 < alexandre9099> *1440x900
23:06 < pingfloyd> what's its vertical refresh?
23:06 < alexandre9099> i got two options, either 75 or 60 (i'm on kde display manager)
23:06 < alexandre9099> (well, it's actually 75,02 and 59,89 :D)
23:07 < pingfloyd> assuming 60, cvt 1444 900 60 should generate you a modeline you can use with xrander
23:07 < alexandre9099> hmm, but that is what i'm using now, and it is 16:10
23:08 < pingfloyd> 1440x900 is 16:10 aspect ratio
23:08 < pingfloyd> so you should go back and check what your monitor supports
23:09 < alexandre9099> that's what i said :) i want 16:9 (so that videos don't show with the bars on 16:9 displays, which is the most common AFAIK)
23:11 < pingfloyd> you sure the bars aren't in the video itself?
23:11 < pingfloyd> many do
23:12 < alexandre9099> not sure, but if they are not on the video they would just show on the 16:9 screen anyway :)
23:12 < pingfloyd> the display isn't going to look very sharp outside of its native res
23:13 < alexandre9099> well, maybe not the best video, but if you got a 16:9 screen it should show stripes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZaeO3Gbuw8
23:13 < alexandre9099> on the 16:10 they don't show
23:15 < pingfloyd> shows vertical letterboxing on mine
23:15 < pingfloyd> I'm 16:9
23:16 < alexandre9099> yep (i always confuse where the black stripes are suposed to be, i said horiozontal :( )
23:17 < alexandre9099> i guess i now understand why some displays have like "4:3 on 16:9" feature, cause the display actually streches the image making it not that sharp
23:18 < pingfloyd> a decent video site lets you change the aspect ratio you view the video in
23:18 < pingfloyd> what you might do is download the video and then you can change it in vlc
23:19 < pingfloyd> or whatever player
23:19 < pingfloyd> at least then you'll have control over the aspect ratio and whether it will stretch or keep the bars
23:20 < alexandre9099> without streching or cutting the video having the bars is the only way that i know to show the video on a different aspect ration than it was meant to be played in
23:20 < alexandre9099> *this was what you wrote XD*
23:32 < Dr_Coke> How's it going people
23:32 < BCMM> alexandre9099: a bunch of people are fine with just watching stretched video, and find it less annoying than the bars
23:32 < BCMM> i think it's weird and wrong, but it's pretty common
23:33 < xoxo> anyone have a good oauth 2.0 example
23:33 < xoxo> https://simpleprogrammer.com/oauth-and-rest-in-android-part-1/ <- i dont know how to "import" the headers for this project
23:34 < xoxo> otherwise it'd be fine
23:34 < xoxo> is there a way to find the headers from a .jar file
23:34 < xoxo> oops
23:34 < xoxo> wrong channel
23:35 < phogg> xoxo: a .jar is just a .zip with a different name
23:35 < jim> what kind of headers?
23:36 < phogg> xoxo: and you can use the zipdetails program for a pretty good header dump
23:36 < phogg> oh, but if you meant Java header information... that's different
23:41 < niekniek> hello all! I’m running a program in the terminal but it says ‘Unable to find the SSL library in the default path’
23:41 < phogg> niekniek: can you provide a link to where I can find the program?
23:41 < phogg> or do you know if it is a compiled executable?
23:41 < niekniek> it’s compiled yes
23:42 < niekniek> it’s some bad dell program
23:42 < phogg> niekniek: do you understand how dynamic linking works?
23:42 < niekniek> I have no idea why the libssl.so should be in the path (because that’s what it's missing)
23:43 < phogg> niekniek: you should have a program called ldd installed. From a terminal run: ldd your-program-name
23:43 < niekniek> yeah
23:43 < phogg> this will print out a list of all .so files the program wants as well as the path where those files were found, or a "not found" notice if the dynamic linker could not find one
23:44 < niekniek> libssl.so is not in there...
23:44 < phogg> niekniek: not listed in that list or listed with a "not found"?
23:44 < niekniek> not in the list
23:44 < niekniek> lovely dell stuff...
23:45 < phogg> niekniek: Okay. Do you have some version of a libssl installed anywhere on your system?
23:45 < niekniek> sure
23:45 < niekniek> both with and without dev
23:45 < phogg> if you have an up  to date locatedb you can sue 'locate' to find it.
23:45 < phogg> niekniek: where?
23:45 < niekniek> in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libssl.so
23:45 < phogg> and is the file name *exactly* libssl.so? Also, where do you get that error (meaning: how do you know that's the file name it wants)?
23:45 < niekniek> but I linked it to /bin/libssl.so
23:45 < niekniek> doesn’t help
23:45 < phogg> niekniek: programs do not scan /bin
23:46 < phogg> niekniek: try: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu your-program-name
23:46 < niekniek> ERROR: RAC1170: Unable to find the SSL library in the default path.  If a SSL library is not installed, install one and retry the operation. If a SSL library is installed, create a soft-link of the installed SSL library to "libssl.so" using the linux "ln" command and retry the operation.
23:46 < phogg> this will tell the linked to look in that dir for .so files first
23:46 < phogg> s/linked/linker/
23:47 < niekniek> same error
23:47 < niekniek> I might need to install some old vm to get the tool working...
23:48 < diverdude> Why am I getting this error? find: missing argument to `-exec'     when I do this: find /usr/src/ids/ueyedemo/src -iname "*.cpp" -exec grep -Hni 'SetAutoParameter' {}\;
23:48 < Wixy> Hey all! Do you recognize this output? What tool generates something like that? https://imgur.com/a/RXv4Xvq
23:48 < bls> diverdude: need a space between {} and \;
23:48 < oerheks> 233000..
23:49 < lordvadr> Wixy: That's called apache.
23:49 < lytedev> Wixy: looks like nginx or apache log output
23:49 < phogg> niekniek: It's hard to know what it's looking for. The error is not what you'd normally get. It may be that it relies on a very specific version of libssl.
23:49 < bls> or it's doing something dumb with dlopen
23:50 < phogg> bls: likely
23:50 < Wixy> lytedev, I asked a developer for the latency of a rest endpoint from the production server and he sent this, wtf
23:50 < phogg> not much you can do about that without getting... intimate with it
23:50 < niekniek> yeah, could be, it’s not for ubuntu 18.04 which I’m running but for 16.04
23:50 < phogg> Wixy: the first number on each line shows the response time
23:50 < lordvadr> Wixy: "I asked a developer" <- that's your first problem.
23:50 < JeffATL> what's something i can use to watch the i/o rate on separate interfaces? GUI is ok
23:51 < phogg> lordvadr: Hey. I resent that. Developers are the only ones who have any idea what's going on.
23:51 < phogg> Wixy: I suggest you ask him nicely to explain how to read the logs.
23:51 < bls> JeffATL: iotop, sar, dstat if you mean disk I/O. nethogs, iptraf, iftop if you mean network
23:51 < lordvadr> phogg: I'm a dev, a sysadmin, and a network guy. I've gotten it from all angles. This is a dev that doesn't know what he wants.
23:51 < phogg> niekniek: that shouldn't be so far off that it fails entirely.
23:52 < niekniek> agreed, but it does :)
23:52 < phogg> lordvadr: doesn't sound like it to me
23:52 < JeffATL> bls: thanks
23:52 < lordvadr> Wixy: Why did you ask a dev for the latency for such and such?
23:53 < Wixy> ok, let me explain
23:54 < lordvadr> ok
23:54 < Wixy> that image is supposed to show the latency of a server A, doing GET requests to a server B (it's requesting /api/v1/dep ...)
23:55 < lordvadr> Wixy: That's not latency. That's response time.
23:55 < Wixy> the problem is that server A is running on Google Cloud Platform, and B is on AWS (I believe)
23:56 < lordvadr> Ok. And what units are we looking at here? 1/100th of a second with, what, .1s stdev?
23:56 < Wixy> and I'm checking the same from a server C on AWS, same region as B
23:56 < Wixy> but for me it's much higher
23:56 < lordvadr> How much higher?
23:57 < Wixy> so I believe where are measuring different things. but I cannot be sure as that developer is currently out of office
23:57 < Wixy> let me show you my logs
23:57 < lordvadr> Ok. Pastebin it somewhere.
23:57 < lordvadr> Also, you should slap a dev for sending you a screenshot of a console.
23:57 < Wixy> yeah.. don't even mention that..
23:57 < lordvadr> As a dev, I can say that. That's out of line.
23:58 < Wixy> Here are my numbers: https://pastebin.com/raw/YPGU3KKf
23:58 < pingfloyd> screenshot is so wrong it's not even funny
23:58 < Wixy> min, avg and max response time. and below you have the confidence intervals
23:58 < lordvadr> Wixy: You have the same numbers.
23:58 < pingfloyd> is the dev some visual monkey or something?
23:58 < JeffATL> i have *so* told students, stop sending me screenshots of text windows ffs
23:58 < lordvadr> Yeah, and a blue background?
23:58 < Wixy> lordvadr, same numbers? no way
23:59 < lordvadr> .01 seconds is roughly equal to 12ms.
23:59 < pingfloyd> JeffATL: more tolerable with a student, since they whole point is for them to learn
23:59 < pingfloyd> JeffATL: but should definitely expect more from a "professional developer"
23:59 < lordvadr> You top aout at 1045ms, which is 1.045 seconds. Yeah, wixy, same numbers.
23:59 < JeffATL> pingfloyd: ahh, but if only they *did*...
23:59 < Wixy> I would say for him the average is way lower than mine
23:59 < Wixy> and remember I am colocated, he's not!
--- Log closed Fri Jun 29 00:00:13 2018