--- Log opened Fri Jul 13 00:00:36 2018
00:06 < Psi-Jack> Hmm.. I dunno about R, but u is probably about 80 or so. Hehe
00:08 < Loshki> I don't ever recall a time when people kept cleartext passwords in /etc/passwd
00:14  * Gerlo raises paw.
00:14 < Gerlo> Guilty
00:14 < Dagmar> Loshki: That's because it was very, very long ago
00:14 < Dagmar> Like, that wasn't a thing you'd see when Linux was first being put on CDs
00:15 < Dagmar> ...and not many floppies
00:15 < hexnewbie> The only time I've used a clear text password in /etc/passwd was to confirm my suspicion that such use-case was the reason for the name of the file
00:16 < koala_man> I didn't even know that was supported
00:16 < hexnewbie> I was shocked I was allowed to login, I was just messing around.
00:17 < Dagmar> To say it's "supported" is stretching the word a bit
00:18 < Dagmar> Pretty much everyone involved in building a distro is going to have ugly things to say to you about sticking plaintext passwords in /etc/passwd
00:19 < hatp> Anyone know why Japanese fonts specifically show up as tofu? I installed noto fonts from the repository on Arch
00:20 < Dagmar> Your best bet is to find someone that speaks Japanese
00:20 < koala_man> hexnewbie: how? I tried replacing 'x' with 'cow' and then 'su myuser' and entered 'cow', and it was rejected
00:20 < Dagmar> I've packaged all those things and at no point did I ever know if they actually worked properly
00:21 < Dagmar> There's probably rather a few bugs just waiting for someone who acutally _speaks_ the language to speak up
00:21 < hexnewbie> koala_man: It was a long time ago.
00:21 < hexnewbie> koala_man: It's possible that the distro was Debian Lenny.
00:21 < Namarrgon> hexnewbie: i saw it on a modern CNC mill a few years ago. none of the devs could explain why they opted for it.
00:21 < Dagmar> It's also possible that his current PAM config goes straight to invoking shadow
00:21 < Dagmar> ...becuase that's what a sane person would do.
00:22 < koala_man> no, the shadow password was also not accepted
00:23 < Dagmar> Namarrgon: Probably because they're electrical/mechanical engineers, not system architects
00:24 < hexnewbie> koala_man: Er, earlier than that. Debian Lenny (or the previous one) was when I tried to convince my new employer that their system was vulnerable, as I was able to change the root password by writing new /etc/passwd. They brushed it off because su failed due to lack of pty (mounting pty resulted in the exploit though)
00:25 < Dagmar> You were probably already pwned
00:25 < Dagmar> That shouldn't have been something a joe user shoudl have been able to do in Lenny
00:28 < hexnewbie> hatp: If you have a font covering the unicode range, font substitution should get rid of any tofu. Possible reasons for that not happening include: 1) Not restarting the program after installing the font; 2) Buggy font (or a font your toolkit doesn't like) taking priority over your nice font.
00:28 < peoliye> watch -n 1 "adb shell cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq | tee -a cpu0.txt" this is not dumping data in cpu0.txt. Any clues?
00:29 < hexnewbie> hatp: Examples of the latter include Symbola which likes to put shaded rectangles on codepoints it doesn't have, and old Qt versions choking on parts of Unifont.
00:29 < hexnewbie> hatp: You may try aliasing ‘Noto Sans CJK JP’ or ‘TakaoGothic’ to sans-serif with higher priority
00:29 < koala_man> peoliye: is it showing the frequency on screen? properly?
00:30 < hatp> hexnewbie: unfortunately, it was a pretty dumb mistake on my part. Just realized the noto fonts on my repository don't include the CJK variants
00:30 < hatp> they seem to include everythign else though, which is why I was confused
00:30 < peoliye> koala_man: yes
00:31 < peoliye> koala_man: but cpu0.txt has junk data.
00:31 < koala_man> peoliye: junk data?
00:32 < peoliye>  ^[(B^[)0^[[?1049h^[[1;24r^[[m^O^[[4l^[[H^[[JEvery 1.0s: adb shell cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/c...  Thu Jul 12 15:10:31 2018^[[3;1H1401600^[[24;80H^[[1;75H2
00:33 < koala_man> peoliye: can you double check and make sure the | is in fact inside the double quoted string the way you posted it?
00:39 < peoliye> koala_man: thanks it worked.
00:41 < granttrec>  i have set my sudoers file so only a specific user can install packages, but trying to install those via sudo fails, why is that? https://paste.ee/p/sg0Sf
00:50 < Tech_8> hi
00:51 < matsaman> hi
00:51 < lnnb> hi
00:52 < Tech_8> hello lnnb
00:52 < lnnb> huh?
00:52 < Tech_8> hi
00:52 < lnnb> i was talking to matsaman
00:52 < lnnb> hi Tech_8
00:52 < Tech_8> oh
00:52 < lnnb> that one was for u
00:52 < Tech_8> thx
00:52 < lnnb> np
00:59 < sauvin> lnnb: "you", not "u".
00:59 < lnnb> hooked on fonix worked for me
01:01 < sauvin> Doesn't work for deaf people.
01:01 < lnnb> neither would the ubuntu graphical installer
01:29 < feuli> sudo -s
01:29 < feuli> does sudo -s do su or su - ?
01:30 < granttrec> feuli: why -s?
01:30 < feuli> I read this command in internet. it is probably to use shell
01:31 < feuli> granttrec: I do not really understand the difference with su
01:32 < granttrec> sudo is different from su
01:32 < granttrec> uses the users password instead of the others
01:33 < ldlework> sudo su
01:33 < ldlework> :)
01:33 < feuli> sudo su = su :)
01:33 < feuli> what is the equivalent of sudo -s with su?
01:33 < feuli> granttrec:
01:34 < Jackass420> That just seems redundant. Is there any place you would even use su?
01:34 < ldlework> sudo su asks you for your password
01:34 < ldlework> then since you're root, su doesn't ask for a password
01:34 < Jackass420> sudo seems to get everything done anyway.
01:34 < Jackass420> Yeah but sudo will just do the same thing.
01:34 < ldlework> so using sudo su, you can do something as a user other than yourself, with only your password
01:35 < ldlework> Jackass420: you can use su to be anyone
01:35 < ldlework> not just root
01:35 < Jackass420> Oh
01:35 < Jackass420> That seems like it would have it's uses then.
01:35 < feuli> Jackass420: That just seems redundant. Is there any place you would even use su? => I am on debian I have not sudo contrary to ubuntu :)
01:35 < ldlework> feuli: only if you have other users other than root
01:36 < feuli> I see
01:36 < feuli> but on debian how to do sudo -s ? just su?
01:36 < searedvandal> su -s=<the shell you want>
01:37 < Dan39> apt-get install sudo? -_-
01:37 < searedvandal> or something like that
01:37 < searedvandal> Dan39, that's too easy
01:37 < Dan39> eww searedvandal
01:37 < Dan39> did you just use an = with a short opt?
01:37 < searedvandal> I know, I mixed a bit there.
01:38 < searedvandal> su --shell=<shell you want>
01:38 < feuli> Dan39: apt-get install sudo? -_- ah ok I used to believe it has been removed from debian
01:38 < Dan39> never heard of such a thing
01:38 < searedvandal> I highly doubt they'll remove it from their repos anytime soon
01:39 < Dan39> it probably wont give you ubuntu-like all-access when you just install it though
01:39 < Dan39> sudo is much more powerful than just the default ubuntu setup of `sudo anything now`
01:39 < Jackass420> I hate when the remove old stuff from repositories.
01:39 < Jackass420> Who came up with that dumb idea anyways?
01:40 < Jackass420> Yeah, just delete all of history along with it. That's the SMART thing to do..
01:40 < Dan39> you can configure sudoers for example to restrict it to "user1 may sudo as only user2 and run only the command /a/b with option --update"
01:40 < searedvandal> sudo may be old, but it's not deprecated or obsolete as far as I know. so it will stay in the repos until that happens at least?
01:40 < epicmetal> How many of you run Sid as your daily driver?
01:41 < searedvandal> that's that testing branch of debian?
01:41 < epicmetal> searedvandal: basically yeah
01:41 < SatansChariot666> i usually use debian old stable
01:42 < epicmetal> Stable (currently Stretch), Testing (currently Buster), Unstable (always Sid)
01:42 < searedvandal> haven't ran debian in years to be honest. I should probably install it on some hardware one day I have some time to kill
01:42 < epicmetal> SatansChariot666: why not Stretch?
01:42 < feuli> when I do sudo -s as user I get "user does not appear in the sudoes list. this event will, be signaled"
01:42 < SatansChariot666> this is my first year running stable
01:42 < feuli> do I do su; sudo -s; ?
01:42 < Dan39> feuli: because... your user is not in the sudoers list, and the event will be reported!
01:42 < SatansChariot666> due to too many changes lately
01:42 < searedvandal> feuli, yeah, need to add user to sudoers
01:43 < Dan39> another additional feature of sudo is it will log all uses
01:43 < SatansChariot666> mainly coz of systemd
01:43 < SatansChariot666> which no1 likes
01:43 < epicmetal> But Oldstable is Jessie, which is systemd
01:43 < Dan39> if you want the regular all-access, usually you can just do gpasswd -a youruser sudo
01:43 < searedvandal> wheel
01:43 < SatansChariot666> that means i was runnning oldoldstable
01:43 < epicmetal> Heh
01:43 < SatansChariot666> wheezy
01:43 < Dan39> depends on distro though if there is a sudo group setup by default in the sudoers
01:44 < epicmetal> I'm sort of caught between Arch and Sid
01:44 < Dan39> some might have wheel intead like searedvandal, but thats not as common anymore, kinda oldschool
01:44 < SatansChariot666> ive been on debian for like almost 10 yrs now
01:44 < Dan39> epicmetal: such different choices haha
01:44 < searedvandal> Dan39, yeah, arch is a bit oldschool in their sudoers file
01:44 < epicmetal> Dan39: not that different
01:44 < Dan39> searedvandal: swear i have sudo group...
01:45 < Dan39> epicmetal: you smokin crack son
01:45 < epicmetal> Dan39: what's that got to do with it? ;)
01:45 < Jackass420> Hey, any ideas on how to boot this: http://distro.ibiblio.org/pendrivelinux/
01:45 < Jackass420> Virtualbox doesn't want anything to do with it.
01:45 < epicmetal> Dan39: they're both reasonably popular systemd-based rolling releases
01:45 < Dan39> searedvandal: ah, it has both which can be uncommented
01:45 < epicmetal> Dan39: large non-corporate communities
01:46 < epicmetal> Similar!
01:46 < searedvandal> Dan39, yep. I just use wheel since it's further up in the file :P *lazy*
01:46 < Jackass420> I also tried converting it to an ISO but it doesn't have any boot instructions so it must be like super legacy
01:47 < Dan39> epicmetal: iirc sid may not get security updates as quickly as stable, while archlinux would
01:47 < Dan39> searedvandal: wheel is uncommented already in mine while sudo is not, so maybe you're right and it was the default one already uncommented? not sure
01:47 < epicmetal> Dan39: well yeah, there's that. But I was watching Firefox updates during the Spectre/Meltdown debacle in January, and Sid did well compared to Fedora
01:48 < searedvandal> Dan39, I manually uncommented when I installed if I recall correctly
01:48 < epicmetal> Dan39: Arch blew the doors off everyone though
01:48 < Dan39> and package management and style of some system configuration can be a lot different
01:48 < epicmetal> I was hankering for some sweet Debian Policy
01:48 < Dan39> but indeed they are both gnu/linux
01:48 < Dan39> so not that far off haha
01:49 < NGC3982> did i recently disconnect?
01:49 < ntd> enter ubuntu/canonical...
01:49 < Dan39> debian has some dumb wrappers added like adduser
01:49 < searedvandal> Jackass420, mount the img file and use vboxmanage to create a .vmdk file perhaps
01:49 < epicmetal> Dan39: oh, that's a Debianism? Yeah I never understood that
01:49 < ntd> they're a few days behind deb at sec updates in general, but some updates take forever
01:49 < Dan39> epicmetal: it's not standard *nix
01:49 < Jackass420> Yeah, it spits it out like yesterdays coffee. It won't read at all.
01:49 < feuli> adduser utilisateur sudo; sudo -s; I get "user does not appear in the sudoes list. this event will, be signaled"
01:50 < Dan39> useradd is the standard, which is also on debian
01:50 < ntd> take imagetragic, openssl, kernel updates after spectre/meltdown
01:50 < Dan39> so learn useradd imo
01:50 < ntd> weeks, months
01:50 < Jackass420> I kinda wanna see what's inside tho
01:50 < ntd> and then there's what they call "universe". no one is actually using VLC, right?
01:50 < Jackass420> I'm gonna tinker with it. How hard can it be to make a boot menu?
01:50 < Dan39> all adduser does is like set your -s shell and one or two other options for you, then runs the chginfo or something and passwd for you
01:50 < searedvandal> NGC3982, 30 minutes ago
01:51 < ntd> so even if *debian* decide to update stable users to the next major release, let's leave users hanging with an unpatched torrent mucher, amirite?
01:51 < NGC3982> searedvandal: thank you.
01:52 < NGC3982> i ran imagemagick so hard it topped out my ram and killed the network.
01:52 < searedvandal> Jackass420, or if you have a spare usb stick around, write the .img to the usb, then use vboxmanage to create a raw vmdk file that you set up as existing drive when creating a new vbox machine
01:52 < Dan39> chfn*
01:52 < Dan39> like anyone ever used finger?
01:52 < searedvandal> NGC3982, no problem. next time you wonder about that you can do a whois on yourself which shows signon time.
01:53 < NGC3982> cool!
01:54 < epicmetal> Dan39: I was having font issues on Arch. Probably my failure in being able to configure my system. But there was some weirdness with Noto Sans and Noto Monospace being confused with each other. According to the Arch folk, there was some upstream issue with the font. I guess I wanted to see if Debian would somehow shield me from these upstream iissues
01:54 < Dan39> heh
01:54 < Dan39> fonts always a bitch
01:54 < epicmetal> Yeah they kill me
01:54 < epicmetal> I really wish all distros would just rip off Ubuntu's defaults
01:54 < epicmetal> It's the only thing it does right
01:55 < searedvandal> Dan39, finger: command not found. so no
01:55 < SatansChariot666> they shud just make a distro called windows
01:55 < epicmetal> SatansChariot666: and embed spyware?
01:55 < SatansChariot666> sure
01:55 < epicmetal> I think that happened
01:56 < searedvandal> SatansChariot666, there is already an operating system being distributed that has the name windows.
01:57 < Dagmar> Dan39: Finger got used rather often back in the 90's... generally for unpleasant ends
01:57 < ayecee> giggity
01:58 < Dan39> heh
01:58 < ayecee> i recall it was useful to see if someone had checked their mail recently, and therefore received the embarrassing email you sent
01:58 < Dagmar> Finger a university user account, get their dorm room, real name, and dorm phone number
01:58 < ayecee> you know, so you knew when to cringe
01:58 < Dan39> Dagmar: so people actually filled that stuff in legit and kept it up to date?
01:58 < Dagmar> Universities did. :)
01:59 < sauvin> The students did, or the admins?
01:59 < ayecee> this was before personal computers were a thing
01:59 < Dagmar> More than once I took advantage of call waiting to stifle a dimwit
01:59 < ayecee> or rather, before they were a common thing
01:59 < ayecee> hah, nice
01:59 < epicmetal> Ugh, Windows. I apparently need a 3rd party utility to programmatically pin something to Start Menu
02:00 < Jackass420> You could always right click pin
02:00 < Jackass420> lol
02:00 < epicmetal> Jackass420: doesn't work for .lnk files
02:00 < Dagmar> Finger woudl also typically reveal where in the dialup pool a shell user was connected from
02:00 < searedvandal> Dan39, need to get finger from the AUR these days apparently.
02:00 < Jackass420> I always did it the manual way.
02:01 < Dan39> searedvandal: haha really
02:01 < Jackass420> I don't know whay you would spend 45 hours building something that you could do in less than 10 minutes.
02:01 < Dagmar> o.O
02:01 < ayecee> because you expect to do it a lot of times
02:01 < ayecee> mostly
02:01 < searedvandal> Dan39, yeah. I got curious, it's netkit-bsd-finger if you want it :P
02:01 < Dagmar> I could pretty much _write_ a finger daemon in shell script in under 45 hours.
02:02 < sauvin> Why would it take so long?
02:02 < Jackass420> I can't write anything
02:02 < Dagmar> All the drinking
02:02 < Jackass420> I'm just a big dummy.
02:02 < Dagmar> ...to make sure no unpleasant memories are kept around
02:02 < Jackass420> I'm actually just a jackass
02:02 < Dagmar> Also then I could say with a straight face "I have no knowledge of the development of that shell script"
02:02 < sauvin> :D
02:02 < Jackass420> that
02:02 < sauvin> ... but you know a guy named Jack who might...?
02:03 < Jackass420> I wanna build something good.
02:03 < Jackass420> How do you even use all those terminal commands?
02:04 < Dagmar> With muh fingers
02:04 < ayecee> one at a time
02:04 < Jackass420> Doesn't it just make you go crazy?
02:04 < Dagmar> Nope
02:04 < ayecee> well obviously yes
02:04 < Jackass420> How many codes do you think you know?
02:04 < ayecee> seven
02:04 < Dagmar> Attempting to fix the permissions on a filesystem that was recently "repaired" by someone from the help desk, using a GUI... THAT would make me murderous
02:04 < Jackass420> Like various commands and thier appending fixes.
02:04 < feuli> did I do any mistake on security or else? https://paste.debian.net/1033483/
02:05 < ayecee> nice clickbait
02:05 < SatansChariot666> umm
02:05  * NGC3982 made a nice dynamic gif for his hydroponic plant.
02:05 < ayecee> feuli: i'm not sure what you're asking based on this paste.
02:05 < searedvandal> good.c
02:06 < feuli> ayecee I was asking if what I did is a good idea
02:07 < Dagmar> feuli: Hint... since we can't tell what the heck you thought you were doing, you probably shouldn't have been doing it
02:07 < feuli> Dagmar: I want to do sudo -s with right right to download a vpn
02:08 < Dagmar> One does not merely download a VPN
02:08 < feuli> Dagmar for the moment I just want to use sudo -s nicely
02:08 < searedvandal> if you want to download a car you need to download a vpn first
02:09 < ayecee> feuli: this is a bunch of commands. it doesn't tell us what you were trying to do.
02:09 < ayecee> whatever you were trying to do, this is a weird way to do it.
02:09 < Dagmar> feuli: If it didn't blow your fingers off, you probably meet the minimum requirement for "nicely"
02:09 < searedvandal> sudo -s <command> ?
02:09 < ayecee> but not inherently wrong
02:09 < Dan39> searedvandal: -_-
02:09 < Dagmar> feuli: Perhaps you tell us what you're actually trying to accomplish, and then we can suggest how you might best go about that
02:09 < feuli> Dagmar what ois wrong?
02:09 < feuli> ok
02:09 < ayecee> searedvandal: that's not how sudo works
02:09 < Dan39> why does this guy keep saying "sudo -s"... why are you adding the -s?
02:09 < feuli> I want to downmoad that https://community.openvpn.net/openvpn/wiki/OpenvpnSoftwareRepos#DebianUbuntu:UsingOpenVPNaptrepositories
02:10 < Dan39> rtfm
02:10 < ayecee> feuli: the commands in the paste would add the repo key, so that's good.
02:10 < ayecee> still weird.
02:10 < searedvandal> ayecee, I wouldn't know. I only have root user on my systems
02:10 < ayecee> XD
02:10 < feuli> ayecee: still weird. => what is weird?
02:11 < feuli> can I do su instead of all that?
02:11 < ayecee> feuli: it's weird to use su to become root, switch to a user, and then use sudo.
02:11 < ayecee> yes, su would have been enough.
02:12 < Dagmar> s/weird/insane
02:12 < ayecee> or sudo -s, since the user was probably already a member of the group
02:12 < feuli> because when I do sudo -s I get "user does not appear in sudoers list"
02:12 < ayecee> doesn't meet my criteria for insane. just weird.
02:13 < ayecee> ah. then, su would have been enough.
02:13 < feuli> ayecee:  ok
02:13 < feuli> do you recommend me to cancel anything then?
02:13 < ayecee> but now that you've added the user to the group, sudo -s would be enough, though you may have to log out and log in for that to apply.
02:13 < ayecee> no, no damage done here.
02:13 < searedvandal> feuli, because to use sudo you need to add the user in the sudoers list. visudo as root lets you edit the sudoers file.
02:13 < feuli> an dremove user of sudoerrs
02:13 < feuli> ?
02:13 < toblorone> I'm looking at a custom linux driver someone has written and in the readme they specify that I need to place their code in the linux source tree and recompile. Why would you have to do this instead of simply using a kernel module?
02:13 < Dagmar> Generally it just involves adding the user to the 'wheel' group
02:14 < ayecee> searedvandal: no, most distributions use the sudo group for that instead of adding users into sudoers by hand.
02:14 < ayecee> wheel is more of a bsd thing.
02:14 < Dagmar> Just the same it's surprising how it's in everyone's default sudoers declarations
02:14 < searedvandal> ayecee, sure, if the group isn't commented out by default. which it was on my install.
02:14 < ayecee> it's not in mine
02:14 < searedvandal> don't know how it is in debian though when installing sudo manually
02:16 < Dagmar> ayecee: systemd-sudo users don't count
02:16 < ayecee> not past 20 anyhow
02:16 < Dan39> but did you try sudo -s?
02:16 < ayecee> heyo
02:17 < Dagmar> Maybe it's time to take a step back and stop throwing extra arguments at commands based on "we didn't die the last time"
02:18 < ayecee> Dagmar: he did
02:18 < ayecee> err.
02:18 < ayecee> Dan39: he did, too
02:18 < ayecee> it'll work in the future at least
02:18 < CyberManifest> I don't know what happened but my battery life magically went from 4 hours up to 8, so happy about that :)
02:19 < searedvandal> ayecee, seems like it's uncommented by default in debian, so adding user to sudo should suffice. sorry if I caused any confusion. had to double check the package.
02:19 < searedvandal> sudo group*
02:19 < ayecee> searedvandal: heh. it's like the perl motto, tmtowtdi - there's more than one way to do it
02:20 < Dagmar> Personally I think if the maintainers of a package ship something a certain way (like 'wheel' group) maybe it's a good idea to follow their lead instead of risking confusing wooly-headed sers
02:20 < searedvandal> yeah. sure are.
02:20 < ayecee> yup. my distro doesn't use wheel for that, though.
02:20 < Dagmar> Only a few of them invoke CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN, so there's that
02:20 < rosco_y> can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong in my simple Makefile? https://pastebin.com/L6HF7kMg
02:21 < Dagmar> ...and most of them involve perl6 pragmas anyway
02:21 < ayecee> rosco_y: tell us what happens when you use it, and what should happen instead
02:21 < Dagmar> rosco_y: Line 11 is madness
02:22 < ayecee> you won't believe #6!
02:22 < searedvandal> guess it's just arch being special shipping sudo with only root uncommented. so they can achieve setting sudoers the arch way
02:22 < rosco_y> ayecee: ty, I've got a comment embedded near the problem, but when I run make I get this message: make: *** No rule to make target 'saveCSV.h', needed by 'saveCSV.o'.  Stop.
02:22 < ayecee> rosco_y: saveCSV.h was not found, and there's no rule to make it.
02:22 < Dagmar> Surprisingly, it's apparently correct
02:22 < rosco_y> I don't know why it seems to think I'm specifying saveCSV.h as a target.
02:23 < rosco_y> lol Dagmar, it is a change I agree.
02:23 < ayecee> rosco_y: saveCSV.o depends on saveCSV.h. it's an implicit target.
02:23 < Dagmar> ergo it needs to make it if it doesn't exist
02:23 < Dagmar> But still, _touching_ the target file is insanity
02:23 < ayecee> on line 27
02:24 < Dagmar> If you're going to be doing that you should just paste the lines into a shell script instead of using make
02:24 < rosco_y> well, I think saveCSV.h would be regarded as a dependency, and the object file is the target.
02:24 < Dagmar> rosco_y: It assumes files will either exist, or they need to be created.
02:25 < ayecee> rosco_y: yes, exactly.
02:25 < Dagmar> The guys in #workingset can probably set you straight
02:25 < rosco_y> it exists.
02:25 < ayecee> make doesn't think it does
02:25 < ayecee> why would make think that?
02:25 < rosco_y> my shell scripting is even worse then my Makefile creating
02:25 < Dagmar> ...probably because of someone messing about with timestamps
02:25 < Dan39> ive surprisingly like never done a Makefile from scratch
02:26 < Dan39> but the syntax has also looked horrible to me
02:26 < Dan39> always
02:26 < Dagmar> Dan39: It's only hard if you try to use autoconfgen
02:26 < Dagmar> ;)
02:26 < ayecee> i usually grit my teeth and do autoconf before i write a makefile.
02:26 < rosco_y> I'm doing the exact same thing that I'm doing for all of the other object files, and it's been working great.
02:26 < ayecee> rosco_y: then you'll have to sort out why make doesn't think saveCSV.h exists
02:27 < Dagmar> Timestamps from the future, probably
02:27 < rosco_y> ayecee: ty, maybe that's the root of the problem....
02:27 < ayecee> could be you have the case wrong on the file itself.
02:27 < rosco_y> lol, well, it *should* work....
02:28 < rosco_y> your absolutely correct--when I typed "more saveSCV.h" I get no "no such file or directory."
02:29 < rosco_y> I see it in my "ls" listing
02:29 < ayecee> SCV is not the same as CSV though
02:29 < Dagmar> *cough*tab_completion*cough*
02:29 < Dan39> tab completions is god.
02:29 < rosco_y> ayecee: I'll bet that's what I'm doing.  I'm am VERY fluent in typo
02:30 < Dagmar> Also s/more/less/ DOS-boy
02:30 < toblorone>  I'm looking at a custom linux driver someone has written and in the readme they specify that I need to place their code in the linux source tree and recompile. Why would you have to do this instead of simply using a kernel module?
02:30 < CyberManifest> with the battery life fix I think I can deal with the no webcam thing, but the command key issue is still a bit annoying :/
02:30 < Dagmar> more was obsolete like 20 years ago
02:30 < rosco_y> Well, how about that: saveCSV <> saveSCV !!  How very wierd!!
02:30 < Dagmar> heh
02:30 < ayecee> computers are so unforgiving
02:30 < rosco_y> no kiddin
02:31 < Dagmar> toblorone: Probably because they couldn't be bothered to do it right
02:31 < rosco_y> Thanks Dagmar, ayecee, you two Rock!
02:31 < ayecee> toblorone: compiling a kernel out of tree is kind of tricky.
02:31 < ayecee> was probably easier this way.
02:31 < ayecee> compiling a module, rather
02:32 < Dagmar> It's also possible that they get a kick out of seeing people complain it won't build
02:32 < toblorone> compile a module is tricky? seems like less of a pain than rebuilding the whole kernel. But i guess if they haven't written the driver to be used as a module im shit out of luck
02:32 < Dagmar> ...because One Does Not Simply Run Make In The Kernel Source Tree
02:33 < ayecee> compiling a module isn't tricky. compiling a module _out of tree_ is tricky.
02:33 < ayecee> also, mind the language.
02:33 < toblorone> oh, sorry
02:33 < Dagmar> Well, it requires the user actually have the kernel sources available and appropriately configured, and be able to type that path to the build script
02:34 < ayecee> the kernel module still needs the kernel headers, and usually the kernel configuration header which comes from a configured kernel tree
02:34 < Dagmar> THere's at least three or four noob questions that get skipped over by just plopping the file in the source tree
02:34 < ayecee> whether or not you compile that tree.
02:34 < Dagmar> ....although it should probably be several files
02:35 < comet23> chose between jale or armey
02:35 < comet23> better jale or armey?
02:35 < ayecee> why not both
02:40 < comet23> i here jale is bed
02:40 < ayecee> can't argue with that
02:40 < Dagmar> No one drone strikes jails
02:40 < ayecee> can't even understand that
02:58 < hays> is this linux meaning kernel or a broader definition
02:58 < sauvin> Broader: "GNU/Linux".
03:00 < lnnb> you can't help me install system_d on freebsd? ;_;
03:01 < bazhang> lnnb, why not ask in the bsd channel
03:01 < lnnb> good idea
03:01 < bazhang> #freebsd
03:01 < sauvin> Don't forget your Nomex.
03:02 < hays> anyone tried one of those system76 laptops? I'm considering dumping my macos laptop
03:03  * epicmetal just noticed how close macos is to tacos
03:03 < lnnb> they ignore, i need immediate help is urgent!!
03:03 < hays> but i really like how everything OS level just works nicely
03:03 < epicmetal> lnnb: it doesn't run on non-Linux
03:03 < hays> looks like these guys might be starting to take that on and make an integrated general computing product based on linux that isn't some netbook
03:03 < lnnb> not even on windows?
03:04 < epicmetal> lnnb: troll elsewhere
03:04 < lnnb> i was just wondering
03:04 < bazhang> systemd on windows?
03:04 < bazhang> is that a joke
03:04 < hays> systemd is tied closely to linux
03:04 < lnnb> i mean they have to have a fake pid 1 at least?
03:05 < comet23> linux is for retards who cant use proper os like mac
03:05 < ayecee> obvious troll is obvious
03:05 < bazhang> sauvin, you agree with comet23 ?
03:05 < comet23> bazhang: yes
03:06 < bazhang> not who I was asking
03:06 < sauvin> bazhang, nope.
03:06 < comet23> only moron's use linux because its a bad os that does less then what mac does
03:06 < comet23> mac apps > linux apps
03:06 < ayecee> abusive troll is abusive
03:06 < bazhang> that's offensive on several levels
03:06 < comet23> mac ease of use > linux
03:06 < comet23> even winowds is easier to use then linux
03:06 < comet23> i had to lern in the arrmey
03:07 < sauvin> I find it rather comical, actually. Look at comet23's English and tell me with a straight face he's a towering genius.
03:07 < dgs> look. he's in the arrrrrrmey
03:07 < hays> I spent 95% of my time on a mac and i will say this. Mac apps are garbage
03:07 < bazhang> toweling perhaps
03:07 < comet23> i was dgs
03:07 < ayecee> i see what you did there
03:07 < hays> I use mac because of homebrew and the commandline
03:07 < dgs> i use mac cause of the hardware
03:08 < bazhang> macports hays?
03:08 < hays> dgs: yeah, although the most recent laptop offerings ... not great
03:08 < dgs> suspect i'll be jumping to something like a dell xps when this machine dies though
03:08 < epicmetal> i have to say, my ex gf's macbook air was delightful to use in terms of form factor and trackpad
03:08 < comet23> u do that if u wanna destroy hardware no use a commend lien because its not a good thing to use unless your in armey trained profesionell
03:08 < hays> bazhang: i switched to homebrew
03:08 < sauvin> comet23, "you", not "u".
03:08 < epicmetal> linux would have been nice on it
03:08 < epicmetal> assuming the trackpad could be made to feel the same
03:08 < bazhang> command lien? is that a real estate term?
03:08 < comet23> sauvin: same difrence
03:08 < dgs> bazhang: it's an armeeey term
03:08 < ayecee> XD
03:09 < bazhang> aye aye capt
03:09 < hays> how to use macos as a linux user: command-space, homebrew, and a few 3rd party utilities
03:09 < bazhang> he seems more like a navy type
03:09 < comet23> every1 hear is jellyous of me being in armey
03:09 < dgs> bazhang: lol
03:09 < sauvin> comet23, "everyone", not "every1". Use proper English.
03:09 < comet23> ive not been in ears
03:09 < ayecee> it's tragic what they do to army people
03:09 < Wharncliffe> Do they teach you proper English there?
03:09 < ayecee> well obviously no
03:10 < hays> i was in the navy, and always wondered why army people were definitely a notch or two stupider on average
03:10 < bazhang> perhaps its the pirate navy
03:10 < comet23> they teach lief skills
03:10 < bazhang> somalia
03:10 < ayecee> the army people thought the same about the navy
03:10 < hays> comet23 is an exception.
03:10 < hays> he's like 5 notches dumber
03:10 < comet23> liek how to maek nertwoks
03:10 < hays> ayecee: probably :)
03:10 < comet23> i maek nertwoks in armey now working in comcast
03:10 < sauvin> Hrm... a wok for nerts? Never tried that. Where do you buy your nerts?
03:10 < ayecee> comet23 is doing better business with typo trolls than os trolls
03:11 < comet23> windows = work mac = home
03:11 < dgs> ahhh. the old nert woks - so you were in the chinese armeey?
03:11 < comet23> mac > windows
03:11 < comet23> mac > windows > linux
03:11 < ayecee> keeps trying to return to his roots though
03:11 < bazhang> getting mixed messages
03:11 < sauvin> comet23, it was only mildly amusing the first time. Move along.
03:11 < comet23> wat
03:12 < bazhang> does aremy guy like windows best or linux
03:12 < hays> wish i could find a real person  that uses one of these system76 laptops
03:12 < comet23> not good compute
03:12 < bazhang> hays I know a few
03:12 < ayecee> bazhang: depends, which one works better with a 360 controller
03:12 < comet23> get reel mashine liek macbook aire
03:12 < bazhang> hehe
03:12 < bazhang> aww!
03:12 < dgs> +q ? quiet?
03:12 < hays> bazhang: do they actually work work, or is it kinda more of the same where everything sortof works if you pay it close attention
03:12 < ayecee> what's the past tense of bazinga?
03:13 < sauvin> Yup.
03:13 < bazhang> yeah
03:13 < ayecee> bazhang!
03:13 < dgs> what's the $a thing?
03:13 < Wharncliffe> Account name.
03:13 < bazhang> he got muted
03:13 < ayecee> dgs: freenode account
03:13 < dgs> ahhh. i should probably know that =p
03:13 < ayecee> nah. no reason to.
03:14 < dgs> well, just i've been floating around on here for years.  guess that's the first time i've seen someone muted though =p
03:14 < sauvin> Unless you're a channel operator, there's no real reason to know such things.
03:14 < Disconsented> dgs> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/extbans
03:14 < ayecee> the same works for bans too, especially on channels where you have to be registered to speak
03:14 < dviola> this is the best use of apple hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSrpNqwBNVY
03:14 < what_if> I love linux on a MacPro
03:15 < bazhang> the desktop?
03:15 < lnnb> i need to figure out how to turn my keyboard backlight on
03:15 < lnnb> also no sysrq key :(((
03:16 < lnnb> also the damn clock keeps resetting every time i shut down
03:17 < dgs> lnnb: well, just don't shut down then =p
03:18 < ayecee> "doctor, my shoulder hurts every time i lift my arm!"
03:18 < lnnb> it shuts down randomly on me because the charging circuit is so shot, also the charger adaptor broke on year2 had to glue it back toether and it only works one direcitonal now
03:18 < dgs> doh. my macbook charger crapped itself this morning
03:19 < dgs> easy fix.... but expensive =p
03:19 < lnnb> it loves to report full battery when you hit the battery status button, but you unplug the cable and its blinking one led
03:19 < lnnb> macbook suxxx
03:19 < ayecee> a lot of mac fixes are that way.
03:19 < bazhang> mbp?
03:19 < lnnb> mbp
03:19 < bazhang> not sux
03:19 < lnnb> yeah it sucks
03:20 < lnnb> i just listed multiple reasons why
03:20 < lnnb> the screen is crisp at least
03:20 < ayecee> they have nice kit, and as long as you can pay, the nice kit keeps nice
03:20 < lnnb> and it has a separate bass speaker
03:20 < bazhang> it's hardware, why flame on it
03:20 < lnnb> because some idiot is blanket claiming that mbp's are good machines
03:20 < bazhang> that was me
03:20 < bazhang> ahem
03:20 < ayecee> idiot!
03:20 < ayecee> i mean, they generally have good specs, and are well constructed
03:21 < hays> i am willing to pay whatever it takes pretty much for a laptop/os that gets out of my way
03:21 < hays> macos can be configured to do that
03:21 < ayecee> nod
03:21 < hays> wow comet just tried to break into my freenode account
03:21 < ayecee> ditto
03:21 < lnnb> TBF, its a mbp highly polluted with NVIDIA  in lspci
03:21 < hays> but I don't like the new macbook pro 13" line. its too weak
03:22 < ayecee> you say that like it's a bad thing
03:22 < hays> kinda why im interested in system76
03:24 < hays> but if I close my lid and i lose work because it didn't actually power save or other dumb stuff like that... well i dont want it
03:24 < hays> or it works until the next point release of the kernel comes out (that happened to me with a  'linux' asus netbook once)
03:35 < dgs> hah. k-lined
03:36 < dgs> how did you know he was breaking into your account? does freenode message you if there's enough incorrect password guesses?
03:36 < ayecee> if there's just one
03:36 < dviola> lmao, what a noob
03:36 < ayecee> nah. pretty sure that's intentional.
03:37 < dgs> ahhh. obviously he didn't deem me interesting enough to try
03:37 < supera_vaticano> lol try what
03:37 < ayecee> to access his account
03:37 < supera_vaticano> oh yea access
03:37 < supera_vaticano> access feels great
03:37 < supera_vaticano> when i need something from him
03:39 < ayecee> mmkay
03:50 < supera_vaticano> wow so famous
03:50 < supera_vaticano> i wonder why :)
03:52 < Sveta> Hi all. On a shared desktop computer here there are many users who do not have root access but would like to access the computer remotely with graphics. VNC servers which create virtual terminals do not have adequate graphics there. VNC servers which use 'real' (what is a better word here?) terminals require the user to log in and leave their session active in foreground for the VNC client...
03:52 < Sveta> ...to be able to log in. As the user does not have root, using GDM's session cookie magic file is not an option -- they can not read it for passing to x11vnc's --auth option. What can be done?
03:52 < Sveta> Hello supera_vaticano .
03:53 < supera_vaticano> bye sveta vaticano
03:53 < supera_vaticano> proposing lol
03:54 < hays> ssh -X ?
03:56 < Sveta> hays: I believe this doesn't do graphics, and dies as soon as the SSH session is closed?
03:57 < hays> well yeah if you deauthenticate yourself and disconnect...
03:57 < hays> not sure what you mean by graphics, but it does give you something graphical...
03:57 < supera_vaticano> shipping line
03:58 < supera_vaticano> ill hook you up with other buddhists LOL
03:58 < supera_vaticano> omg
03:58 < supera_vaticano> lol
03:58 < supera_vaticano> i cant stop laughing like a girl lol
03:58 < supera_vaticano> i dont deserve the software
03:58 < supera_vaticano> LOL
03:59 < Sveta> supera_vaticano, what web browser are you using?
04:00 < supera_vaticano> the one you gave me LOL
04:00 < supera_vaticano> remember
04:00 < Sveta> hays, 'glxgears' kind of stuff.. it is difficult for me to explain too, there are a few programs similar to CAD which simply do not show the geometry of the project
04:00 < hays> yeah probably true
04:00 < Sveta> supera_vaticano, remind?
04:00 < supera_vaticano> do i have to discipline you
04:01 < Sveta> supera_vaticano, yes, my memory is absolutely terrible
04:01 < Sveta> supera_vaticano, or tell me a name of your distribution
04:02 < Sveta> supera_vaticano, and whether you have root there
04:02 < supera_vaticano> ok well its not exactly appropriate right now
04:02 < supera_vaticano> so itll have to wait
04:02 < supera_vaticano> your curiosity is flattering though
04:02 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: the reason why I am asking is because your IRC client now is on the edge of being terribly user-unfriendly
04:02 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: and this affects the way you chat and converse
04:02 < supera_vaticano> its just the web lol
04:02 < supera_vaticano> the same as anybody
04:02 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: and knowing what you have got would allow me to help you with the installation of a more adequate IRC client
04:03 < supera_vaticano> i have pleny of unused clients
04:03 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: here, nearly nobody uses the web client (unless they're troubleshooting something and are looking for help very briefly)
04:03 < supera_vaticano> that doesnt mean they're unusable
04:03 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: believe me, webchat is unusable
04:03 < supera_vaticano> oh ok
04:03 < supera_vaticano> lol
04:03 < supera_vaticano> what do i say to that
04:03 < supera_vaticano> mr omniscient
04:04 < supera_vaticano> bible lord
04:04 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: in webchat, you are forced to write tiny lines,
04:04 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: which makes so many of them
04:04 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: that by the time you reach the end, I already forget what was the beginning
04:05 < ayecee> does webchat not allow longer lines?
04:05 < Sveta> ayecee: it discourages them, its font and spacing are so severely terrible that people are tempted to put as many of them as they can
04:05 < supera_vaticano> ok but at least be reasonable
04:05 < Sveta> ayecee: I mean, I like serif fonts, and in irssi they are monospace, but in webchat they are something that is double as terrible as that
04:06 < supera_vaticano> because this is high culture
04:06 < supera_vaticano> everybody's well read
04:06 < ayecee> horrifying
04:06 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: you really need to write lines which are longer than 10 words each, otherwise people will be terrified of you
04:06 < supera_vaticano> obviously
04:07 < Sveta> ayecee: do you have any ideas about the vnc problem above?
04:07 < supera_vaticano> by the time i'm done typing my connection will be dropped :)
04:07 < supera_vaticano> becaaause im on shoddy wifi
04:07 < ayecee> haven't read it. tl;dr?
04:07 < ayecee> or, summary?
04:07 < Sveta> ayecee: "remote vnc access with graphics without root"
04:07 < Sveta> ayecee: "... on a shared computer with gdm"
04:07 < ayecee> that's the normal way to use vnc. what's the problem?
04:07 < Sveta> ayecee: virtual terminals don't have graphics, and real terminals require the users to login with gdm first
04:08 < Sveta> ayecee: which doesn't work remotely unless they have root, I think
04:08 < ayecee> oh, vnc for console terminals?
04:08 < ayecee> dunno.
04:08 < ayecee> seems like something one would use ssh for
04:08 < Sveta> ayecee: well I don't know the name. but it needs to be a display which is real (I need to be able to walk to the computer and switch to it) if it is not real then 'glxgears' does not show and a nice program does not work either
04:09 < Sveta> ayecee: and if it needs to be real, then vnc client does not connect to it UNLESS the user is already logged in via gdm AND their session is currently active in foreground
04:09 < ayecee> so, shared session between X and vnc, with opengl
04:09 < Sveta> yes
04:10 < ayecee> i don't think opengl plays nice with vnc in the first place, root or not.
04:10 < Sveta> ayecee: I can do without vnc, if there is another better protocol (with 'real' displays vnc works ok, I already tested it)
04:10 < supera_vaticano> shes coloring the paper lol
04:10 < supera_vaticano> lol sorry
04:10 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: you want #parenting at snoonet
04:10 < supera_vaticano> didnt mean to embar ass you
04:11 < supera_vaticano> lol
04:11 < supera_vaticano> im so stupid for laughing really
04:11 < ayecee> Sveta: i may have glossed over this - how does one launch a "real" display?
04:11 < supera_vaticano> ahahaha
04:11 < Sveta> ayecee: by logging in to gdm
04:11 < ayecee> okay, so sessions shared after logging in with gdm work as expected?
04:12 < Sveta> ayecee: only if they are currently active?
04:12 < ayecee> like, on the screen at the moment?
04:12 < ayecee> interesting.
04:12 < hays> this channel is spicier than the ones I usually frequent
04:13 < ayecee> Sveta: what happens when you try to run glxgears otherwise?
04:13 < Sveta> ayecee: I've found it on the internet and having root allows to use 'chvt' or the gdm's magic session cookie to log in, but I haven't found a workaround which would allow to log into gdm via x11vnc in these circumstances
04:13 < ayecee> is there an error message?
04:13 < Sveta> ayecee: presumably they're in deep fear that one user is logged in and another one without root would suddenly switch screens and interfere with their work or something
04:13 < ayecee> sounds correct. direct rendering is pretty direct.
04:14 < Sveta> ayecee: in vncviewer, glxgears gives an error message, "Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display ":1.0""
04:14 < ayecee> okay, i can work with that. one sec.
04:15 < ayecee> but you don't get that error when you're sharing an active session via vnc?
04:16 < supernov1h> how do people pronounce 'cu' on linux, the call-up program
04:16 < ayecee> see you
04:16 < supera_vaticano> haha privacy in russia
04:17 < supera_vaticano> does russia even have linux
04:17 < ayecee> supera_vaticano: shush
04:17 < supera_vaticano> so poor its sad
04:17 < supernov1h> !report supera_vaticano xenophobia
04:17 < ayecee> we don't use !report here
04:17 < ayecee> see /topic
04:17 < supera_vaticano> dollars make you poorer friend
04:18 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: Russia have linux because they want to be independent from US
04:18 < supera_vaticano> but nice friends are worth it
04:18 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: linux development and deployment is actively funded (see Calculate Linux as an example)
04:18 < ayecee> Sveta: i'm not getting much so far, except that xvnc doesn't support glx, while x11vnc may
04:18 < supera_vaticano> oh fund it
04:18 < supera_vaticano> yea
04:18 < supera_vaticano> u wont like that though
04:18 < ayecee> you, please
04:19 < Sveta> ayecee: perhaps x11vnc needs some special switch, it right now only uses the real displays
04:19 < supera_vaticano> lol
04:19 < supera_vaticano> the comment
04:19 < supera_vaticano> haha
04:19 < supera_vaticano> common
04:19 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: in this channel spelling out words in full is a part of the policy
04:19 < Sveta> supera_vaticano: as is not using Enter key so much
04:19 < ayecee> Sveta: nothing obvious coming up. i understand the problem, but i don't see any easy solutions.
04:19 < supera_vaticano> ok dont kick me warrior
04:19 < supera_vaticano> sorry
04:20 < Sveta> ok
04:20 < supera_vaticano> boxing im weak
04:20 < Sveta> ayecee: great, thanks for checking
04:20 < supera_vaticano> ur muscles are too big
04:20 < supera_vaticano> looooooool
04:21 < supera_vaticano> russia is beautiful snow though
04:21 < ayecee> i'm kind of surprised that glx works at all over vnc, to be honest
04:22 < Sveta> ayecee: "x11vnc: a VNC server for real X displays " is the official title on its home page, so I doubt it can make virtual terminals
04:22 < supera_vaticano> and ice skating
04:22 < Sveta> ayecee: which may be probably the reason
04:22 < ayecee> but apparently it does, in some cases
04:22 < ayecee> what's the program you use to share your X sessions via vnc for real sessions?
04:22 < hays> haha this system76 ad is pretty funny. "I don't want a TV with a keyboard!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcWVKqeF0MY
04:23 < hays> but I do wonder if the laptop gets more than 3hrs battery life
04:23 < ayecee> the smarter the terminal, the lower the battery life, i guess
04:23 < hays> yeah i mean there are physical limitations
04:24 < sauvin> supera_vaticano, "you", not "u", and "your", not "ur".
04:24 < supera_vaticano> why is the grammar
04:24 < supera_vaticano> common dude
04:24 < Sveta> because we have foreigners here
04:24 < Sveta> and they don't read leet speach
04:24 < supera_vaticano> oh
04:25 < supera_vaticano> its crowded
04:25 < Sveta> and sauvin has the boots, as do I
04:25 < Droog0x> p4d33p s33ch
04:25 < Sveta> but we're kinda hopeful you can adjust your speech without us having to use them
04:25 < supera_vaticano> get it crow dead lol
04:25 < supera_vaticano> well im also on ##English
04:25 < supera_vaticano> still learning
04:26 < ayecee> also it's super annoying
04:27 < ayecee> even for the english speakers
04:27 < Sveta> I'm wondering if I can find a better vnc server for this, which allows a few users to use the computer remotely at the same time
04:27 < supera_vaticano> i can speak proper english it's just hard that's all
04:28 < ayecee> we appreciate the effort
04:28 < supera_vaticano> and i thought you'd be more forgiving
04:28 < supera_vaticano> because it's about technology in the end
04:28 < supera_vaticano> as long as we're on the same page
04:28 < ayecee> this is how we get on the same page
04:28 < supera_vaticano> i'm also fat so
04:28 < Sveta> we try to be very lenient, but we expect you to put effort
04:28 < supera_vaticano> i don't get to talk much
04:28 < ayecee> heh
04:32 < supera_vaticano> siletude again
04:32 < supera_vaticano> is that a word
04:33 < Sveta> solitude
04:33 < Jackass420> Can someone clear something up for me and my insane brain?
04:33 < ayecee> no, but it's relatable. silence is.
04:33 < ayecee> Jackass420: even odds
04:33 < Jackass420> I know exe and dmg are for windows and mac but is deb really the basic executable file for linux?
04:33 < meingtsla> No.
04:34 < ayecee> deb is not an executable file
04:34 < xamithan> deb files aren't in any way executable
04:34 < Jackass420> I thought deb was the executable for linux. Man.....this makes finding programs like ten times harder.
04:34 < hays> you are looking for an elf
04:35 < ayecee> file extensions are not normally used to denote executables in linux
04:35 < sauvin> dmg is also not executable, as I understand it.
04:35 < hays> find / -executable -type f
04:35 < xamithan> dmg is just an image format
04:35 < Jackass420> I have only ever seen deb and tarballs and I really don't know where to find a real program repo like ftp for them so it makes finding them a lot harder than windows.
04:35 < sauvin> Yes, akin to .iso in intent.
04:36 < sauvin> Jackass420, what distro are you using?
04:36 < ayecee> Jackass420: one does not normally find bare executables for linux either.
04:36 < ayecee> one normally installs packages like debs or rpms
04:36 < hays> .dmg is a little more flexible maybe--usually its how people package their applications
04:36 < Jackass420> Well......I'm experimenting with a lot of different ones. But I think I like puppy.
04:36  * elf runs and hides
04:36 < ayecee> watch out, or the aout will get you
04:37 < Jackass420> Puppy is actually the friendliest distro I've found out there.
04:37 < hays> in windows, .bat and .com are also executable
04:37 < triceratux> Jackass420: whats not to like about distros that arent puppy ?
04:37 < xamithan> Sure,  if you don't like a real distro
04:37 < Jackass420> That's like old windows though
04:37 < Jackass420> I mean....
04:38 < hays> aren't there all sorts of dumb things executable now in windows?
04:38 < Jackass420> Ubuntu is okay don't get me wrong but it's not packed with a bunch of starter stuff lik puppy.
04:38 < ayecee> .exe, .scr, .bat come to mind
04:38 < ayecee> .com of course
04:38 < Jackass420> I know....there's probably a lot of packed junk in other distros but I mean vanilla.
04:38 < hays> isn' tthere like a .vbs also these days
04:38 < xamithan> ps ps1 python jar
04:38 < explodes> COM OBJECTS
04:38 < Jackass420> JEEZE
04:38 < xamithan> visual basic script
04:38 < samy1028> .psh (powershell)
04:39 < Jackass420> ...
04:39 < samy1028> or is it .ps1?
04:39 < ayecee> thought that was .ps1
04:39 < Jackass420> I meant like a gui...
04:39 < xamithan> executable GUI ?
04:39 < hays> i think 'executable' apps in mac are actually directories or something
04:39 < samy1028> .reg (registry edits)  Will automatically apply.
04:40 < Jackass420> I was under the impression a dmg in mac was an executable
04:40 < xamithan> you can gui in visual basic,  it has visual in the name even
04:40 < samy1028> did that once many years ago when I clicked on the wrong file on a server.
04:40 < samy1028> oops.
04:40 < xamithan> I think the osx one is .app
04:40 < ayecee> visual bash
04:40 < samy1028> restore and and an hour later the server was working again.
04:40 < hays> in mac, you have a directory with .app extention and there is a defined folder structure within that.. not sure of details
04:40 < xamithan> but osx is unix,  so it can do lots of other
04:40 < Jackass420> I just downloaded a bunch of dmg files....
04:40 < explodes> grats
04:41 < Jackass420> Well I wanted to get linux programs but they're just so hard to point out.
04:41 < Jackass420> And they aren't exactly organized very well
04:41 < xamithan> What program?  Puppy can use ubuntu compiled stuff right?
04:41 < hays> here is sublime text on a mac directory structure
04:41 < hays> https://bpaste.net/show/5f6dd61171e0
04:42 < ayecee> it would be better to search for linux packages than linux programs
04:42 < hays> Jackass420: they are in /bin , /usr/bin/ and /usr/local/bin
04:42 < hays> you can see any other place by doing echo $PATH
04:42 < markasoftware> I get this in `journalctl -xe` when connecting to a new network: `Jul 12 19:41:26 me@host dns-resolver[2173]: ATTENTION: You have modified /etc/resolv.conf. Leaving it untouched...`
04:42 < markasoftware> how do I let it know it can overwrite resolv.conf? IT is correct that i have modified it but i want it to unlearn that
04:43 < lnnb> what happens if you rename or remove the file
04:43 < Jackass420> Okay.....well I'm just archiving at the moment. Everything seems all over the place and it's unclear where to begin. I sort of want a large repository that I can access whenever I need to.
04:43 < Jackass420> Offline is the goal here.
04:44 < xamithan> So find a repsitory you want and mirror it locally,  then make a repo file to point to it
04:44 < Jackass420> I just don't know which repo I guess.....I can get that has a sort of universal status.
04:44 < Jackass420> Like it can work with most distros.
04:44 < xamithan> Thats not how it works.  It has to be compiled for certain distros
04:45 < lnnb> what has to be?
04:45 < Jackass420> Okay, so if I find sources would that be the best option? Because they can be compiled in that way?
04:45 < Jackass420> Where the heck do you find a source repository?
04:46 < lnnb> yeah source it portable, binaries much less portable
04:46 < xamithan> github ?
04:46 < hays> if you find sources, you should put them in your user directory and install them to $HOME/bin
04:46 < lnnb> many distros ship with "source code" dvd's and such
04:46 < Jackass420> I thought source and distro were all mixed up together.
04:46 < hays> this is almost always what you want to do
04:46 < ayecee> Jackass420: examine the sources of the binary repositories.
04:46 < Nexilva> Hi! Good evening!
04:46 < xamithan> How large is a repo like ubuntu universe anyway in disk size ?
04:46 < Jackass420> This sounds like a job for a robot.
04:47 < ayecee> xamithan: gigabytes. maybe tens of.
04:47 < hays> if you really want to play at being a sysadmin outside what a distro provides, you can put it in /usr/local/src
04:47 < ayecee> Jackass420: it is a job for a robot
04:47 < hays> and maybe install to /opt or something else that makes sense, there are a few standards
04:47 < ayecee> Jackass420: that's why distributions use robots for that.
04:47 < lnnb> Jackass420: legally speaking source is only *required* at the users request, it's not always a given
04:47 < xamithan> I see on askubuntu someone downloaded it in 2011 it was 500GB
04:48 < xamithan> I can only imagine it to be way higher today
04:48 < hays> for debian based distros.. apt install <whatever> will pull the binaries for that distro and install them in the rifght place, etc
04:48 < ayecee> xamithan: interesting.
04:48 < ayecee> xamithan: i wonder if that's compressed or not.
04:48 < xamithan> Thats with the sources though,  compiled it says was 60gb
04:48 < Jackass420> Yeah....This is pretty high up for me. I dunno. I was just asking. I heard that the entire archive of Linux was a couple PB
04:49 < ayecee> maybe linux plus all possible programs that could be compiled for linux, uncompressed
04:49 < BamBamBigalo> hays: where do you put binaries when you have them? (or tar files and other packages like jars) ?
04:49 < ayecee> otherwise that seems high
04:49 < BamBamBigalo> do they go in /usr/local/src too?
04:50 < hays> BamBamBigalo: thats where i usually put them
04:50 < Jackass420> I'm not qualified for this job lol
04:51 < hays> i think if i had to do it again (learn linux) i'd tell me self to leave more stuff alone that is outside of /home
04:51 < BamBamBigalo> what's the easiest distro to install on top of windows 10 with UEFI boot
04:51 < xamithan> "on top" ?
04:51 < Sveta> dual boot
04:51 < hays> BamBamBigalo: uh, linux subsystem for linux probably
04:51 < BamBamBigalo> yea i dont want to dual boot lol
04:51 < Sveta> virtual machine
04:51 < xamithan> so you want WSL
04:51 < BamBamBigalo> ive tried and can never do it with UEFI
04:51 < hays> erm linux subsystem for windows
04:52 < Sveta> dual boot should work with uefi
04:52 < hays> its ubuntu-based and built into OS
04:52 < BamBamBigalo> Sveta: is there a good article on it?
04:52 < BamBamBigalo> every time grub screws up
04:52 < Sveta> it just worked for me i thought
04:52 < BamBamBigalo> and then windows starts automatically
04:52 < Sveta> you need to install windows first and linux second
04:52 < BamBamBigalo> like it kicks grub off or something?
04:52 < hays> windows 10 literally ships with linux in it
04:52 < xamithan> If you want dual boot you need to turn off some options,  like secure boot
04:52 < Sveta> yes, windows breaks grub
04:53 < Sveta> there are ways to fix it but i did not learn them
04:53 < BamBamBigalo> xamindar I did
04:53 < BamBamBigalo> I spent hours doing it one night
04:53 < Sveta> sounds useless
04:53 < hays> yeah i think UEFI makes it easy, you just point the bios to the partition you want to boot and done.
04:53 < xamithan> You also need to point the efi dir to the windows ones
04:53 < Jackass420> I thought you needed to turn off secure boot and turn on legacy as well
04:53 < xamithan> legacy is only when you don't want UEFI
04:54 < Jackass420> So there's this article https://www.lifewire.com/deb-file-2620596
04:54 < Jackass420> Which specifically states deb files as executable zips
04:55 < hays> here is my linux machine botting UEFI directly to linux in like 6 seconds
04:55 < hays> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n14oRVvOmr4
04:55 < Jackass420> So I'm getting that (They usually are executables) but don't have to be.
04:55 < xamithan> They are executable by the apt packaging system only though,  to install the actual package
04:55 < xamithan> Not executable in the way .exe for windows are
04:56 < Jackass420> But still, you could point dpkg -i to it and it will be just like an exe in that way that it installs to the system for the most part.
04:56 < hays> don't use dpkg -i
04:56 < hays> use apt
04:56 < Jackass420> ....
04:56 < Jackass420> just apt?
04:57 < Jackass420> ANything else?
04:57 < hays> yeah, that is my recommendation for you
04:57 < xamithan> i concur
04:58 < Jackass420> I still work in Windows because that is where most of my stuff comes from but I'm still learning this dreadful linux lingo as I go. Just apt file.deb?
04:58 < xamithan> No,  you have to tell apt what to do
04:58 < hays> nope. apt search thing_i_want
04:58 < xamithan> like apt purge,  or apt install,  or apt remove
04:58 < Jackass420> what is apt?
04:58 < hays> then apt install thing_i_wants_name
04:58 < Jackass420> Is there a man page for it?
04:58 < xamithan> usually commands have a help "apt --help"  or "man apt"
04:58 < hays> advanced packaging tool?
04:58 < hays> yes
04:59 < Jackass420> Okay. I will go looking there. It seems to be the most base for everything Linux.
04:59 < hays> if you have a GUI, there are probably package managers that are OK too, they wrap apt.  I tend to just use apt.
04:59 < hays> apt is a tool that is part of debian distribution, on which many other distributions are based and also use apt
05:00 < Jackass420> I'm gonna read up on what different variables I can use with it because it seems a bit more advanced than just a normal exe install
05:00 < hays> i guess puppy linux has a debian-based version. weird
05:01 < hays> sudo apt install firefox
05:01 < hays> something like that
05:01 < Jackass420> But that has to be on the internet right?
05:01 < graff> so, i installed linux on my laptop
05:02 < Jackass420> or can you point apt to an offline repo?
05:02 < graff> but it was like 8 years ago, and I still have the same one
05:02 < BamBamBigalo> how come people care so much about their package managers?
05:02 < hays> Jackass420: well, yes sortof it does. although as someone mentioned you could have a local repo, but that would be weird
05:02 < graff> the problem is, the paint is wearing off of it in places
05:02 < hays> BamBamBigalo: because learning more than 6 package managers starts to get annoying
05:02 < graff> is it possible to repaint a linux laptop?
05:02 < graff> without totally douching it up I mean
05:03 < hays> once something is installed, it is installed. then you have it
05:03 < graff> my GF is a mac user and needs to like the end result
05:03 < hays> if you want to install firefox on windows, you download it from the internet
05:03 < Jackass420> I mean for offline because the internet won't be around forever and when it's gone (rare linux distros) it's gone for good usually.
05:03 < hays> same through the package manager in linux
05:03 < Disconsented> graff> You mean ex
05:03 < hays> it typically connects to an online repository
05:04 < hays> the internet will likely outlast your local repository
05:04 < graff> Disconsented: i don't really have a problem getting a date :p
05:04 < graff> the problem is keeping them
05:04 < Jackass420> Not for total abandonware.
05:04 < graff> so i am wanting to spruce up my lappy a bit
05:04 < Disconsented> shave, bathe and take off the fedora and I guess its pretty easy
05:04 < graff> that's not an option
05:05 < graff> i need a paint solution for my laptop instead
05:05 < graff> preferably matte black, sort of like an acer gaming laptop
05:05 < hays> paint might interfere with heat transfer on an aluminum body laptop--i'd be a bit careful
05:05 < Jackass420> How do you @ users?
05:05 < graff> this is a samsung rv511 btw
05:05 < Jackass420> in irc
05:05 < Disconsented> Depends on how much effort you want to put in
05:05 < Jackass420> I keep messaging people by accident
05:06 < hays> dont use abandonware
05:06 < strive> Jackass420: Try tab completion.
05:06 < hays> it is not 1995 anymore
05:06 < Jackass420> lol
05:06 < graff> so what about just spray paint
05:06 < Jackass420> But I like internet explorer toolbars on my XP vm
05:06 < graff> how ghetto will that look?
05:07 < hays> i don't know. are you a good painter?
05:07 < Jackass420> graff,
05:07 < Jackass420> that didn't work..
05:07 < graff> hays: that's the problem, not really. I like programming because i can go back and try again
05:07 < graff> save points and all
05:07 < Jackass420> graff: ?
05:07 < Jackass420> I don't know!
05:07 < Jackass420> It's not changing color.
05:07 < graff> hays: i guess just go really fast and get a nice mist hmm
05:07 < triceratux> Jackass420: the last best puppy i saw was his QuirkyXerus. it was based on ubuntu 16.04 & compatible with the full ubuntu repo. made it quite usable
05:08 < hays> graff: then it would proably look like shit :)
05:08 < graff> :p
05:08 < dannylee> hi
05:08 < Disconsented> disassemble, strip, prime, coat, coat, coat, finish and done
05:08 < graff> om side to side like an automive paint job?
05:08 < hays> maybe try those decals or skins or whatever
05:08 < Disconsented> Painting properly takes fucking ages
05:08 < graff> hmm
05:09 < Jackass420> hays: Well, I wanted to get everything that is directly relevant to the workings of a computer and get it all offline for my family for when the grid crashes.
05:09 < hays> or just save another $1000 and get your GF a macbook :)
05:09 < graff> nah this is for me
05:09 < Jackass420> stickers
05:09 < graff> she is mebarassed of all my broken crap, i need to upgrade
05:09 < Jackass420> gas station stickers
05:09 < graff> but you know linux, so it still works
05:09 < Dagmar> _Somehow_ I have deep misgivings about any procedure like that which lacks the step, "sand".
05:09 < hays> get yourself a dell xps 13
05:09 < hays> or whatever--one of the good ones
05:10 < graff> i'd like a lightweight notebook tbh
05:10 < supera_vaticano> anyway the kernal was telling me the other day
05:10 < hays> in all seriousness maybe decals and stickers
05:10 < Jackass420> Alienware
05:10 < graff> but they seal in the hard drives, and i want to be able to replace that
05:10 < Dagmar> Seal in?  Hardly
05:10 < Jackass420> I didn't know that.
05:10 < graff> hays: yeah. some kind of adhesive material might work
05:11 < graff> Dagmar: the one i had it was sealed in. the cheap ones
05:11 < hays> graff: some people like these: https://system76.com/laptops and if you get one let me know if its good
05:11 < ayecee> so long as you don't cover the vents
05:11 < graff> so i had to cut it up to replace the hdd. i went in the back with a crafstman circular saw
05:11 < hays> yeah stickers if you want like the laptop bumper sticker look, or they make these skins out of silicone or something also
05:11 < Dagmar> If your'e buying an "ultra-light" laptop, those things are built more like phones
05:12 < graff> i actully got it too, but the insides were so flimsy it wasn't worht the trouble
05:12 < g-> my system76 laptop runs great
05:12 < Dagmar> Normal laptops, I have yet to see one that doesn't come apart with a small screwdriver or two
05:12 < Jackass420> Almost caught my house on fire with one of those I kid you not.
05:12 < hays> g-: hey i saw you in ruby. which one do you have
05:12 < graff> Dagmar: but you have to take the keyboard off with these ones
05:12 < Jackass420> I didn't know they actually made it so you couldn't take it apart.
05:12 < graff> idk, maybe not all the cheap notebooks are that way
05:13 < Jackass420> Sounds like a total let down
05:13 < Jackass420> Hey
05:13 < graff> i am just going to try the spray paint
05:13 < Jackass420> Why not try a pi?
05:13 < g-> hays: i7 2.9GHz, 17"
05:13 < Dagmar> There are _several_ "cheap notebooks" in this house
05:13 < hays> i used to own thinkpads which were tanks, and i repaired the hell out of them, and i found that the point where repairs stopped being economical was when you had to repair the first thing
05:13 < Jackass420> I would pay to see a pi laptop
05:13 < hays> g-: which model
05:13 < Dagmar> The wife's notebook is decidedly not cheap (HP fancy touchscreen and so on) but the rest I've personally been inside
05:14 < hays> because after the first thing failed, 3 other things would soon follow
05:14 < Dagmar> hays: Eh?  You don't eBay grey-market parts?
05:14 < hays> next thing you know you are buying a replacement system board off ebay and wondering wtf you are doing
05:14 < Jackass420> lol hays
05:14 < hays> Dagmar: exactly
05:14 < Jackass420> Seriosuly how do I tag people?
05:14 < graff> how does asus get that nice flat matte finish, feels rubbery
05:14 < Jackass420> @hays
05:14 < Dagmar> Jackass420: IRC doesn't do that
05:15 < graff> that's what i like
05:15 < g-> hays: i don't see it on their site anymore, mine is a couple years old now
05:15 < Jackass420> ....
05:15 < Dagmar> Jackass420: Talk to notesrv.  That's about it
05:15 < hays> Jackass420: like this basically
05:15 < Jackass420> But I was green.
05:15 < graff> bbl
05:15 < Jackass420> Is there a context through which you can explian it better?
05:15 < Jackass420> hays: doesn't do anything.
05:15 < Jackass420> At least not from what I can grasp.
05:15 < hays> g-: does the hardware just work? stuff like closing the lid and power management, battery management, etc
05:15 < Dagmar> hays: Mainly I look for some vendor with a large inventory.  They tend to be people breaking apart off-lease stuff, rather than the guys with small inventories, who tend to be fences for stolen goods
05:16 < hays> Jackass420: most IRC clients recognize it and will highlight
05:16 < Dagmar> Jackass420: Argh... sorry, MemoServ
05:16 < Jackass420> I'm just asking what you have to type.
05:16 < g-> hays: it all works, there's a system76 entry in /etc/apt/sources.list for their drivers
05:16 < Dagmar> Jackass420: You can leave notes with that bot for people who've bothered to register to the network
05:16 < Jackass420> How are you guys tagging me right now?
05:17 < hays> Dagmar: maybe your experience is different, but i just found getting a new laptop every 3 years or so was about right, because at 3 years everything starts failing
05:17 < Dagmar> Your client is smart enough to detect that we said your name, dude
05:17 < Jackass420> OH
05:17 < hays> adjust 3 years based on how much you bang your laptop around
05:17 < Jackass420> Wait.
05:17 < Jackass420> ...
05:17 < Jackass420> So if you way it in like 5 sentences it will tag green?
05:17 < Dagmar> hays: I drive mine pretty much into the freakin' ground, but then i'm also buying off-lease models from someone on Craigslist for like $225-250 so I don't have to care
05:17 < Dagmar> Laptops for me are basically fancy x-terminals
05:18 < hays> heh yeah that's a good way to exist if you can
05:18 < Dagmar> I need a screen, a keyboard, a reliably battery, and a socket I can install a NOT-FSCKING-ATHEROS wifi card in
05:18 < Dagmar> I have much, much more powerful machines that I access to do actual work
05:18 < Jackass420> Mine is sort of the go to for everything.
05:18 < hays> maybe you could just hack a chromebook
05:19 < Dagmar> No need to hack one
05:19 < Dagmar> You can get RDP clients on them
05:19 < hays> well its not a difficult hack
05:19 < hays> but having ubuntu on it might be nicer
05:19 < Jackass420> Windows.
05:19 < Jackass420> Windows is so nice sometimes.
05:19 < hays> but i did use a google chromebook once for a few weeks and it was pretty nice for what it did, in the google ecosystem
05:20 < metbsd> but i can't get my video card to work in 10
05:20 < Jackass420> Windows 7 lol
05:20 < Jackass420> Not 10.
05:20 < Jackass420> 10 is trash.
05:20 < hays> 10 really could have been very nice, but yeah its trash
05:21 < hays> such a waste of potential
05:21 < hays> they did a lot right
05:21 < strive> ^
05:21 < Jackass420> They did too much
05:21 < Dagmar> It can still update itself.
05:21 < Dagmar> THat's more than I can say for 7.
05:21 < hays> a) they made it spyware
05:21 < hays> b) its too f-ing slow jesus
05:21 < Jackass420> Who cares about updates?
05:21 < strive> !
05:21 < hays> c) they included too much junk with that store concept
05:21 < Jackass420> I'm running a machine with 2012 updates and I'm not hacked.
05:22 < Dagmar> When the vendor is notorious for derpy s**t like _an antivirus that occasionally just FSCKING EXECUTES THE FILE BEING EXAMINED_ then yes, updates matter lots
05:22 < metbsd> i like 10
05:22 < Dagmar> I didn't make that up either.  That *happened*
05:22 < Jackass420> I don't use those either.
05:22 < hays> d) networking is still kinda crap
05:22 < metbsd> but it's not working well on my laptop
05:22 < Dagmar> I'd have traced the commit logs back and had a serious meeeting about "Do we have this employee killed or just set on fire and let nature take it's course?"
05:23 < hays> first thing i do on windows 10 is i search for "performance" and turn all those checkboxes off
05:23 < metbsd> everything works with correct driver, but not video card
05:23 < Jackass420> First thing I'd do is turn it off and boot into something more reliable.
05:23 < metbsd> i don't see many win8.1though
05:23 < metbsd> i wonder why
05:23 < Jackass420> Windows 7 all the way
05:23 < Dagmar> metbsd: Odd-numbered release
05:24 < Dagmar> It's a rule
05:24 < Jackass420> Windows 8.1 was the grand father of windows 10 and nobody liked that either...
05:24 < Dagmar> Every other major release Microsoft has is "asstacular"
05:24 < Jackass420> I liked windows 8 lol
05:24 < hays> 3.11, 95, 7
05:24 < Jackass420> I have an original release of it. It's so broken :)
05:24 < Dagmar> Expect that whatever comes after 10 will be something you wouldn't want to install on a bet
05:24 < Dagmar> Whatever comes after that will probably be tolerable
05:24 < hays> in this world you are crazy to be running 7 though
05:25 < Jackass420> unless you're an archivist that needs to collect everything.
05:25 < metbsd> win 10 is alot nicer than 7
05:25 < Disconsented> incoming W7 elitists
05:25 < hays> yeah except for a,b, and c
05:25 < Jackass420> Windows 10 looks nicer but it lacks functionality that windows 7 is elite for.
05:26 < supera_vaticano> can i talk to you
05:26 < Dagmar> Maybe, if perhaps aliens from outside space-time help them out, the next MS release won't take several freakin' hours to install
05:26 < Disconsented> supera_vaticano> Good question
05:26 < g-> 10 works fine for me, but i gave mine an i7 3.6, 32 GBs of ram, and a raid 5 array of ssds.
05:26 < Dagmar> It's _shameful_ how long it takes to install and do its updates
05:26 < hays> apparently silicon valley wants us to all use tablets
05:26 < metbsd> what can windows 7 do that win 10 can't
05:26 < g-> i needed realflight to be beautiful
05:26 < Jackass420> Windows 7 has everything I could want in an OS. I can watch my screen savers, look at pictures do movies and games. What more could you ask for?
05:26 < hays> g-: haha
05:26 < Dagmar> metbsd: Stall out for three weeks trying to figure out if it has anyting that needs to be updated
05:26 < Disconsented> Jackass420> Security updates
05:27 < Jackass420> matbsd: install an exe file lmfao
05:27 < hays> g-: why raid 5 though? raid10 ftw
05:27 < Disconsented> Raid 10 f2 \o/
05:27 < Jackass420> I don't worry too much about those.
05:27 < Dagmar> Load-balancers first
05:27 < hays> restriping is a beotch
05:27 < Jackass420> They never bricked my device yet.
05:27 < Jackass420> So I'm hopeful.
05:27 < Jackass420> As long as I don't get a BIOS virus, I'm in the clear.
05:28 < hays> someone on slashdot said they had a laptop with zfs raid-0 ssds
05:28 < Jackass420> I can reset any time and I don't keep my data online very long.
05:29 < Jackass420> The only time I keep my precious files online (and they aren't online either just my machine) is when I'm actively archiving so that's about 3 days worth of work if I ever get screwed.
05:29 < supera_vaticano> can you talk to me again please
05:29 < Jackass420> The rest is expendable.
05:29 < g-> hays: not sure, i coulda just went raid0, nothing important on here.
05:30 < g-> i think the board supported raid5 and i was like sweet and tried it and then 2 years went by.
05:31 < Jackass420> gonna check out the apt man pages and see how far I can go to make an offline repo. Wish me luck.
05:31 < hays> g-: yeah i have raidz1 on a file server that i did a few years back and kinda wished i had done mirrored pools
05:31 < hays> i want one of these https://system76.com/desktops/leopard
05:32 < Dagmar> I'm finally starting to add pairs of 4Tb disks
05:32 < hays> seriously beastly
05:32 < Jackass420> What is a pool anyway? I always see them on ftp servers but I never knew what they represented.
05:32 < Dagmar> Jackass420: A group of servers operating identically
05:32 < hays> but like do i really need to spend $13,000 on a machine with 40TB HDD space, two GPUs, dual processor and 128GB RAM?
05:32 < hays> probably not
05:32 < Dagmar> Now... why are you tolerating an FTP server?
05:33 < hays> i think Jackass420 is a baby boomer and still runs Windows for Workgroups
05:33 < Jackass420> I was trying to get an offline repo I could install from
05:33 < Dagmar> I don't think that will actually run on 64-bit machines
05:33 < Jackass420> I love my puppyXP tho
05:33 < Dagmar> I have an install of it on a VM here just to give some of my friends heart attacks
05:33 < Dagmar> It has no network.
05:34 < Jackass420> Subaru Impreza is impressive.
05:34 < Dagmar> ...because f**k Winsock
05:34 < hays> well as long as it runs Desqview and Stacker
05:34 < hays> well as long as it runs Desqview and Stacker
05:34 < Dagmar> That would be cheating
05:35 < hays> need to conserve my expanded memory so gotta have QEMM
05:35 < Jackass420> puppyxp doesn't have apt
05:35 < Jackass420> shoot
05:36 < g-> my puppy is sad because my wife went out of town.  she's been laying next to the front door for two days pouting.
05:36 < Dagmar> I had to blink a bit when I was setting htat VM up
05:36 < Dagmar> Because yeah... "Wait... 16Mb of RAM?  That doesn't seem right"
05:36 < Dagmar> That's like four times what I used to run it on
05:36 < hays> don't forget to park your hard drive
05:36 < Dagmar> No, that predates Wfwg by quite a bit
05:37 < hays> or you'll have to run spinrite
05:37 < Dagmar> Pretty much nothing that was IDE required parking heads
05:37 < Dagmar> ...and none of them required Spinrite for anything
05:37 < Dagmar> Spinrite was useful on MFM and RLL drives and that's it
05:37 < Dagmar> Don't let that chowderhead trick you into thinking otherwise
05:38 < hays> its weird because steve gibson mostly says interesting and smart things
05:38 < hays> but then he sells spinrite
05:38 < hays> like..  still. I think he still sells it
05:39 < Dagmar> He does, but if he seems like he's saying smart things, you must be watching the wrong program or you're _really_ high
05:39 < hays> hold on im waiting for a call +++ATH0
05:39 < Dagmar> Like, don't-leave-the-house-unsupervised kind of high
05:40 < hays> sometimes i listen to security now and he has interesting things to say
05:40 < Dagmar> Afterwards you should talk to a grown-up about the things you heard on the program.
05:42 < supera_vaticano> because your behavior needs to be cold weather
05:42 < hays> it was a while ago but he talked about one of the big malware events we had recently in a lot of technical detail and was correct.
05:42 < Dagmar> Sure.  He can read blogs just fine
05:43 < supera_vaticano> you're a hacker figure it out lol
05:44 < hays> I think he's just an example of what happens to a smart person who runs windows too long
05:44 < supera_vaticano> i spent my life becoming a hacker
05:44 < alexey-nemovff> hi folks!
05:44 < supera_vaticano> and now i'm one of the "elect" you know like israeli
05:45 < supera_vaticano> choson
05:45 < g-> i spent my life playing fade to black 6458765 times
05:45 < hays> i would not however use steve gibson's super PRNG on his website lol
05:46 < hays> i can't stop listening to that stupid rusted root song
05:46 < hays> and then i end up suicidal or homicidal and have to stop for a while
05:47 < g-> i have a current addiction to bleed the freak
05:48 < hays> rusted root is what would happen if you used CRISPR on a hackey sack to turn it into a band
05:49 < g-> i once kept a hackey sack up for 3 kicks..  got tired and went back inside
05:49 < hays> g-: i'm more a RATM fan
05:49 < g-> ratm has some good tunes
05:52 < g-> arch enemy is my favorite cookie monster band: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InRMwptcgAo
05:52 < hays> if you want infinite variety there is buckethead
05:53 < lnnb> oscar the grouch > cookie monster
05:53 < hays> its possible he dropped an album this week
05:53 < g-> THE buckethead?  that guy plays too many notes for me :)
05:54 < hays> you'll find one you like eventually :)
05:54 < hays> what is a cookie monster band
05:55 < g-> arch enemy, the agonist
05:56 < lnnb> lets break it down into some noteworthy elements, cookie monster talks real funny, and is an addict
05:56 < hays> haha ok im listening to some
05:56 < hays> and is blue
05:56 < hays> reminds me of rammstein
05:56 < lnnb> also kinda fuzzy
05:56 < g-> this was utterly shocking first time i saw it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWLr2WVhIp8
05:57 < hays> this is the one i found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjF1rmSV1dM
05:58 < hays> wow
05:58 < hays> i didn't think this was .. physically possible
05:59 < g-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdT7M4f2L9A is really good too, especially the chorus
05:59 < hays> that one you send is almost a little kmfdm like
06:01 < hays> classic kmfdm in case you haven't heard of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06nnZydpZJE
06:01 < hays> vocals are different
06:02 < supernov1h> what determines the size of stdout before I flush it, when coding? I can force a flush, but can I force the buffer to reach a certain limit before I do so and perhaps manipulate that limit?
06:03 < sirensari2> is this normal for a machine without nfs installed? and for none of the inodes to show up in /proc/net/unix ? http://termbin.com/dd0k
06:04 < lnnb> supernov1h: the libc is probably doing it, i vaguely remember looking into it once and i want to say 4096 bytes(kernel page size (usually)), but not too sure if i made that up mentally or not
06:05 < lnnb> if line buffered then it might just wait for a newline and build up indefinitely?
06:06 < lnnb> best way to find out is to write a test or open up libc source
06:06 < hays> if you are writing C, you are probably askng the wrong question, because its implementation defined and I don't think C has a way to know directly
06:08 < g-> maybe use dup2 on stdout and then setbuf?
06:08 < hays> i found this https://linux.die.net/man/1/stdbuf
06:08 < hays> maybe it or its source code would be helpful
06:10 < lnnb> heh, On GLIBC platforms, specifying a buffer size, i.e., using fully buffered mode will result in undefined operation.
06:11 < supernov1h> lnnb: heh, gotta modify and recompile the kernel for the billionth time
06:11 < lnnb> supernov1h: nah, 4096 is just a good size for a buffer, because it's the kernel page size. i don't think you can change that value
06:12 < lnnb> depending on arch
06:12 < hays> undefined by the c std or undefined by glibc
06:12 < lnnb> glibc
06:12 < supernov1h> ah perfect, not necessary
06:13 < hays> i think stdbuf does change it
06:13 < hays> its part of gnu coreutils
06:13 < lnnb> hays: that little snippet was from the stdbuf manual under BUGS: section
06:13 < hays> haha
06:14 < g-> :)
06:14 < g-> what are friends for?
06:14 < hays> that's almost funny
06:14 < hays> BUGS: This program doesnt work
06:15 < hays> maybe freebsd had it first or something
06:19 < sdegutis> Hi friendly people!
06:20 < Sveta> hello sdegutis :)
06:20 < cheapie> Friendly people? Where?
06:20 < Brainspackle> #canada
06:20 < sdegutis> I have an ext4 file system and I'm thinking of storing lots of files small, in the millions, ideally maybe thousands per directory. Is this a bad idea in terms of some kind of performance issues?
06:20 < sdegutis> lol cheapie and hi Sveta
06:21 < sdegutis> *small files
06:21 < Sveta> Brainspackle: that actually exists :)
06:21 < lnnb> i lied, its probably 8192 in glibc (_IO_BUFSIZ -> _G_BUFSIZ)
06:21 < sdegutis> I ask because I remember that git breaks object files up into subdirectories and I think I remember that it's because of some kind of FS limitations.
06:22 < sdegutis> It looks like ext4 allows up to 4,294,967,295 files but I don't think I'll reach that limit so I'm fine with that.
06:22 < BamBamBigalo> sdamashek set smaller page size?
06:25 < sdegutis> hi
06:27 < nik> any way to save cpu frequencies across reboots?
06:27 < lnnb> lol?
06:27 < nik> i'm using linux-cpupower program, works excellent but won't save after a reboot
06:28 < lnnb> what CPU do you need to be able to change freqs like that?
06:28 < nik> lnnb: trying to underclock my cpu to save power and lower temperatures
06:28 < lnnb> that's a great idea nik
06:28 < nik> yes it is
06:28 < lnnb> my laptop only gets 3.5 hours coding in fbcon would love to double that
06:29 < nik> you can with the linux-cpuprogram
06:29 < nik> very easy to use
06:29 < Sveta> sdegutis: greetings
06:29 < lnnb> it scares me though, this machine has been extremely dependable
06:29 < nik> also the frequency scaling on intel cpus are pretty big, temperatures rise up so fast
06:30 < nik> from 45 to 80 just by doing simple stuff is a lot
06:30 < aaro> nik: cpufreq-utils
06:30 < nik> celcius
06:30 < nik> aaro: do you know how to set it up?
06:31 < BamBamBigalo> nlik wat how many cpus do you have?
06:31 < nik> 1 with 4 different threads
06:31 < nik> it's an intel i5
06:32 < Dagmar> Responsible distributions ship with that already set up
06:32 < aaro> nik: no config needed, just install it
06:32 < lnnb> what is that intel "SpeedStep" ?
06:32 < nik> propietary stuff lnnb
06:32 < nik> from bios I think?
06:32 < Dagmar> lnnb: A slightly whiffy mechanism that changes the CPU speed based on CPU demand
06:33 < hays> i think it also may throttle based on temps
06:33 < Dagmar> Caveat: CPU frequency governors are not something to play with.
06:33 < nik> this cpu has 2 governors, powersave and performance
06:34 < Dagmar> There's generally a governor for "run all the time" which is appropriate for servers in data-centers, and there's usually _one other_ for desktops and laptop configurations which spins the CPU down when nothing's going on
06:34 < nik> kaby lake
06:34 < Dagmar> No amount of dorking around with edge cases is likely to gain you _any_ notable improvements
06:34 < notmike> Dork
06:35 < Dagmar> notmike: The number of gits who screw around with that on their phones is ludicrous
06:36 < notmike> Modifying clock speed?
06:36 < nik> notmike: ?
06:37 < notmike> Are we related or something fam?
06:37 < nik> not, mike
06:39 < Dagmar> Not just overclocking.  They're convinced they can get the phone to do things it's just not going to do
06:39 < lnnb> hmm can i set 3 cores to be absolutely as low as possible, and one core set to eleven which i can then say only grep can run on this fast core
06:40 < notmike> Dagmar: that's how you get sick gains bro
06:40 < Dagmar> lnnb: If all the box does all day is run grep, then great
06:40 < Dagmar> notmike: No generally it's how you wind up with an unstable device, corrupted data, and begging people on IRC to tell you how to run fsck _on a phone_
06:41 < notmike> Dagmar: sounds good, but boy will your shit go fast first
06:41 < Sveta> sdegutis: I think BamBamBigalo mis-tabbed and wanted to suggest you using a smaller page size
06:47 < hays> overclocking is one of those things that's basically not worth it
06:47 < hays> if one is honest about the trade offs
06:54 < mib_mib> hi all - i need to prevent package installation from the 'R' statistical program, any ideas on how i can achieve this?
06:56 < XC2299> I'm hoping someone can help me out with my raid1 on linux. I recently moved the disks from one server to another and have noticed that my md's are now md124 - md127 and disk I/O seems to have dropped into the single digits for R/W.
06:57 < BamBamBigalo> mib_mib R installs from cran, block it in your route table?
07:04 < XC2299> Here is my fdisk -l: https://pastebin.com/18ZkF50c and cat /proc/mdstat https://pastebin.com/P3NMdjUN in case anyone needs more info.
07:13 < Dagmar> XC2299: Have you checked throughput to the individual disks with hdparm/dd?
07:13 < XC2299> I haven't... not exactly sure how I'd do that.
07:13 < XC2299> I did a dd to / which got 7 MB/s
07:14 < Dagmar> Well, hdparm -tT /dev/whatevs is one quick & dirty
07:14 < XC2299> so md126/7
07:14 < bullgard4> [Debian unstable] https://packages.debian.org/sid/dstat: "Package: dstat (version0.7.3-1) : »Versatile resource_statistics_tool«. What resources are meant here? Isn't this a misnomer, and "inux-system-performance tool" as in https://www.linux.com/learn/five-tools-measuring-and-improving-linux-system-performance is a term much better to the point?
07:15 < ayecee> bullgard4: no.
07:15 < Dagmar> XC2299: You want to determine where the fail is, so first test motherboard<->drive speeds.  Read tests (as root) will be safe
07:15 < bullgard4> ayecee: Why not?
07:15 < ayecee> bullgard4: why?
07:16 < bullgard4> ayecee: Don't troll.
07:16 < Dagmar> XC2299: It could be something as simple as the drives coming up in the wrong SATA mode
07:16 < ayecee> bullgard4: don't have to. make your point.
07:16 < Dagmar> Moving drives to a different machine generally does not cause any problems
07:16 < bullgard4> ayecee: I have made my point.
07:16 < ayecee> you haven't.
07:16 < ayecee> you've said, is this term a better term than that term?
07:17 < ayecee> but with no indication why it would be
07:17 < bullgard4> ayecee: Yes I did.
07:17 < XC2299> Dagmar, I had been having hangs due to bad ram on the previous machine so I feel like maybe a config file somewhere got borked or something.
07:17 < Dagmar> Ooooo
07:18 < XC2299> While it'd be entirely possible for me to take a backup, wipe and start clean that's a lot of bandwidth on this specific project.
07:18 < Dagmar> Yeah, you might want to poke mdadm and see if the thing has decided the mirrors are degraded
07:18 < ayecee> bullgard4: is troll a better term than flamebait?
07:18 < ayecee> bullgard4: discuss.
07:18 < Dagmar> It trying to verify that everythings fine won't exactly be great for performance
07:19 < XC2299> I could think it'd report that on the cat /proc/mdadm
07:20 < XC2299> *would* think
07:20 < bullgard4> ayecee: I don't know. Because I do not know the word 'flamebait'. You are diverting. - I'll give up with you.
07:20 < Sveta> :)
07:21 < ayecee> bullgard4: that's.. that's pretty much the point.
07:21 < ayecee> bullgard4: it could be that analogies do not work on you.
07:22 < Dagmar> XC2299: It also might be worth poking at smartctl
07:22 < Dagmar> On general principle
07:27 < ayecee> bullgard4: to address your original question, dstat does not measure performance, which is poorly defined. dstat measures resource usage - io time, cpu time, and so forth.
07:27 < ayecee> which are finite
07:31 < BamBamBigalo> are stats in proc continuously updated by the kernel are they 'real time' ?
07:31 < BamBamBigalo> and if so how is that achieved polling?
07:31 < Dagmar> It doesn't quite work like that
07:31 < Dagmar> What the interfaces in /proc do is show you things the kernel _already_ collected
07:32 < bullgard4> ayecee: Thank you for explaining. I'll think about what you said.
07:32 < Dagmar> Some of that is "real time" and some of it is aggregate information.  Either way, none of it can readily be said to be stale
07:33 < BamBamBigalo> Dagmar is there a way to truly monitor the kernel in real time?
07:33 < Dagmar> You can sit there and stare at the motherboard if you like
07:33 < ayecee> sure. kgdb.
07:33 < BamBamBigalo> like with a daemon that runs independently outside of kernel space
07:34 < Dagmar> Largely it helps if you have an idea of something specific you're hoping to _see_
07:34 < ayecee> mostly you wouldn't need or want to do that.
07:34 < Dagmar> MOst of the things that matter are already tracked by the kernel
07:35 < BamBamBigalo> does the kernel run in a 'loop'
07:35 < BamBamBigalo> or how can I imagine it
07:35 < BamBamBigalo> without reading tons of C
07:35 < XCE> it always involve reading tons of c
07:35 < Dagmar> They're just quietly kept in memory locations until something like sar collects them or someone reads them through a proc interface
07:36 < ayecee> BamBamBigalo: mostly no. it finishes all the work that it has to do in a cycle, then goes idle.
07:36 < ayecee> unless there's so much work that it cannot be completed in that cycle.
07:36 < BamBamBigalo> hm
07:37 < BamBamBigalo> so jobs /tasks are 'quequed'
07:37 < BamBamBigalo> and the kernel just responds to them /pops off the queque ?
07:37 < BamBamBigalo> or stack w/e
07:37 < Dagmar> Yeah, but there's about three more layers there than you'd think
07:37 < ayecee> sure. the timer interrupt triggers, and the kernel checks what it should be doing next.
07:37 < ayecee> by examining the queue of waiting tasks.
07:38 < ayecee> or, the kernel is already idle, and a resource that a task is waiting for becomes available. then that task starts.
07:40 < BamBamBigalo> in general, how do these modules of the kernel communicate with each other is it all socket based?
07:40 < BamBamBigalo> or pipes or shared memory or combo of all 3
07:40 < ayecee> none of the above, probably.
07:41 < ayecee> more likely semaphores.
07:41 < ayecee> or mutexes. the building blocks of semaphores.
07:41 < BamBamBigalo> hmm
07:42 < BamBamBigalo> I really need to get fluent enough in C just to read the kernel code
07:42 < ayecee> couldn't hurt, but this is more high-level OS concepts than kernel code understanding.
07:43 < BamBamBigalo> its like trying to understand the personality of someone youve never met
07:43 < BamBamBigalo> just by reading about how they behave
07:44 < BamBamBigalo> hundreds of little tidbits of unrelated info to create a picture in your mind
07:44 < ayecee> nah. it's more like understanding how people behave in general.
07:44 < XCE> youre saying I wont know someone by stalking them across social networks?
07:45 < ayecee> this is how OS work. Linux is an OS, so it probably works like this too.
07:45 < BamBamBigalo> who created the theory of OS though
07:45 < CyberManifest> BamBamBigalo: http://www.chandrashekar.info/articles/linux-system-programming/introduction-to-linux-ipc-mechanims.html
07:46 < BamBamBigalo> where did that even come from
07:46 < XCE> I think they have OS courses
07:46 < XCE> and OS books
07:46 < sauvin> The reality of what we're calling an OS evolved almost organically.
07:46 < ayecee> BamBamBigalo: mostly created by trying several things and seeing what worked
07:46 < ayecee> like evolution
07:47 < XCE> what if the matrix created the OS
07:47 < sauvin> Like we'd know, coppertop.
07:47 < ayecee> when I say "this is how OS work", it's not that OS design was passed from above. it bubbled up from below.
07:48 < ayecee> the books that describe OS design, they are not where OS come from. they describe the OS that are.
07:49 < BamBamBigalo> its interesting that a thoery can even be formed
07:49 < BamBamBigalo> about something so general
07:49 < ayecee> is it?
07:49 < CyberManifest> BamBamBigalo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#History
07:49 < XCE> what about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_architecture
07:49 < ayecee> we have theories about how people behave
07:50 < ayecee> we come to them by watching how people behave
07:51 < ayecee> we have theories about OS design by watching how people design OS
07:51 < CyberManifest> BamBamBigalo: it would suite you to learn about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_computer_science and Alan Turing
07:52 < jim> of course, it was the wizard of os
07:54 < ayecee> groan
07:55 < Jackass420> How common is it for people to accidentally type up thier whole passwords for identify with a typo and have it broadcast to the entire irc?
07:55 < ayecee> not uncommon, anyways
07:56 < elf> something something hunter2
07:56 < ayecee> not something you'd see every day though
07:56 < ayecee> as a human on a limited number of irc channels
07:56 < Jackass420> Isn't that clearly an issue with irc?
07:56 < ayecee> no
07:56 < ayecee> it's an issue with people
07:57 < Jackass420> IRC was made for people though
07:57 < ayecee> people are unreliable and inconsistent.
07:57 < Jackass420> But people made IRC lol
07:57 < ayecee> yup!
07:57 < Jackass420> I think it all ads up quite nicely.
07:58 < Jackass420> Plus you should consider the vast resources we have created over the decades.
07:58 < ayecee> why should i consider that
07:59 < Jackass420> Because, it's not only IRC or linux you get to play with anymore. It's an entire database of cool stuff just waiting to be found by you!
07:59 < ayecee> who are you preaching to?
07:59 < XCE> its already been found by nsa
07:59 < CyberManifest> BamBamBigalo: for more insight I'd study these people: Blaise Pascal, Charels Babage, Ada Lovelace, Alan Mathison Turing, John Von Neuman  in that order.
07:59 < Jackass420> I like to think of the internet as a world unexplored by myself.
08:00 < XCE> wtf are we then, extradimensional beings?
08:00 < Jackass420> There's lot's of places I haven't mapped out yet.
08:00 < ayecee> why limit it to the internet
08:00 < Jackass420> Because that's where I live..
08:00 < ayecee> and yet it isn't
08:00 < XCE> are you a bot
08:00 < Jackass420> Cigarrettes and blue screens and sleep.
08:00 < Jackass420> This is my life.
08:00 < ansraliant> Jackass420: welcome home space cowboy
08:01 < ayecee> "cigarretes"
08:01 < ayecee> this does not sound like cigarretes talking
08:01 < Jackass420> I don't have need for an urban dictionary
08:01 < ayecee> also cigarettes
08:01 < Jackass420> I'm just saying
08:01 < Jackass420> live a little
08:02 < Jackass420> There's not much internet left
08:02 < Jackass420> It's all being destroyed by democracy.
08:02 < ayecee> a lot of things sound really profound when you've smoked some "cigarettes"
08:02 < ayecee> but keep it to yourself, okay?
08:02 < Jackass420> OKAY
08:02 < Jackass420> Jeeze. I was just trying to lighten the mood a little.
08:02 < ayecee> so that didn't work, eh
08:03 < Jackass420> How about some offline resources?
08:03 < ayecee> what, like "cigarettes"?
08:03 < Jackass420> I wanna make a banging repository, man.
08:03 < Jackass420> Nope. Like packages and shit.
08:03 < ayecee> so much past. look to the future.
08:03 < Jackass420> I wanna make something I can write home about. I want my mother to be proud I gave it my all.
08:04 < Jackass420> Is that what linux is about?
08:04 < ayecee> no
08:04 < ayecee> no more so than that's what a hammer is about
08:04 < Jackass420> I think we should preserve the past distributions for future generations.
08:04 < ayecee> i think you should
08:04 < XCE> I just threw my 2k and vista dvd away last week
08:05 < Jackass420> RIGHT!?
08:05 < Jackass420> I just copped a version of puppy linux XP that makes my mouth water.
08:05 < Jackass420> All the love of windows without the windows.
08:05 < ayecee> that is about exciting as a bucket from 1920
08:06 < XCE> so xfce
08:06 < ayecee> to me
08:06 < XCE> a bucket from 1920 could potentially be interesting
08:06 < ayecee> i'm like "that's neat", and that's it.
08:06 < Jackass420> Why, are you so interested in making an AI that can transmit brain waves into computer chips that talk to animals?
08:06 < ayecee> XCE: it could! but mostly it isn't.
08:06 < XCE> couldve been used to smuggle during prohibition
08:06 < ayecee> most likely it was used to carry dirt.
08:06 < XCE> for smuggling!
08:07 < ayecee> herh
08:07 < Jackass420> yolo bro
08:07 < Jackass420> I like abandonware stuff.
08:07 < ayecee> so why lo in the past
08:07 < Jackass420> Because.....
08:07 < XCE> nostalgia is the greatest of drugs
08:08 < ayecee> the past is neat, but i wouldn't want to live there
08:08 < Jackass420> I had my childhood ripped away from me. Literally had my life destroyed in front of my eyes. My childhood was ruined by my shitty dad and now all I have to look back on is Windows XP.
08:08 < XCE> the past is to be observed, not experienced
08:08 < updated> hi there, I am trying to redirect UDP traffic being forwarded through my host to a local port on my computer with the following iptables command "iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p udp --dport 5000:5500 -j REDIRECT --to-port 5213"
08:08 < ayecee> ok, i can see the drama welling up in your eyes. i'm going to check out.
08:08 < Jackass420> Foobar
08:09 < Jackass420> I like the past and the present.
08:09 < XCE> if only your dad had more "cigarettes"
08:09 < updated> however it seems to have no effect, I have tried getting rid of conntrack which seems to resolve the issue for some people but I can see no packets being matched by the rule
08:09 < Jackass420> Would you give it a rest?
08:09 < ayecee> zing
08:09 < Jackass420> Jeeze. This is why I wanted spell check.
08:10 < Jackass420> Hey
08:10 < XCE> try asking in ##networking , updated
08:10 < Jackass420> That's a cool project.
08:10 < updated> XCE: ah OK thanks
08:10 < Jackass420> I never thought of that.
08:10 < Jackass420> Integrated spell check....
08:10 < XCE> I love history
08:11 < Jackass420> checks all the spelling everywhere
08:11 < Jackass420> and puts a little red line under it if it's not entered in the dictionary.
08:11 < Jackass420> And has a built in translate function...
08:11 < Jackass420> ahhh
08:11 < Jackass420> That would be IT
08:12 < Jackass420> open source
08:12 < ayecee> inspiration coming! *burble burble burble*
08:12 < Jackass420> multiplatform
08:12 < XCE> so java?
08:12 < XCE> are there java irc client
08:12 < Jackass420> DOS integration lol
08:12 < Jackass420> Idk
08:12 < Jackass420> Just an idea
08:13 < Jackass420> It would in real time monitor typing interfaces being used......
08:13 < Jackass420> It can under no circumstances connect to the internet either.
08:13 < XCE> tracking and monitoring user input you say?
08:14 < Jackass420> It also flushes cache keylogs
08:14 < Jackass420> with gutmann
08:14 < Jackass420> lol
08:14 < ayecee> profound
08:14 < Jackass420> if you want
08:14 < ayecee> pass the spliff
08:14 < Jackass420> I don't have the knowledge to write this but I got the idea right here
08:14 < Jackass420> Someone take the baton
08:15 < ayecee> no, no, the spliff
08:15 < Jackass420> can there be a github for this?
08:15 < ayecee> there probably already is
08:15 < Jackass420> I don't think so...
08:15 < XCE> there are lots of people with ideas
08:15 < ayecee> well have you checked
08:15 < Jackass420> I'm going on an adventure to google...
08:15 < XCE> just need someone to do the actual implementations man
08:15 < ayecee> don't forget to bring a towel
08:15 < supera_vaticano> anybody russian chess
08:15 < supera_vaticano> hello
08:15 < supera_vaticano> please
08:16 < supera_vaticano> no
08:16 < BamBamBigalo> XCE: I knew a guy like that, so annoying
08:16 < BamBamBigalo> like do you actually think youre the only person in the world that has good ideas? why dont you implement them yourself or pay someone
08:17 < XCE> you dont want experience and porfolio?
08:17 < Jackass420> Hey, nobody asked you BAMBAMButthole
08:18 < CyberManifest> so $pay like Apple / Microsoft
08:18 < Jackass420> No cash
08:18 < CyberManifest> Johny has cash
08:18 < ayecee> Jackass420: consider it a gratuity
08:18 < Jackass420> Besides. It's gotta be open source and free
08:19 < XCE> it can be os and cost money
08:19 < ayecee> or a "tip"
08:19 < CyberManifest> Jackass420: I hear Microsoft is adopting Open Source
08:19 < Jackass420> I want it to be something people can rely on when they don't know how to spell cigarette
08:19 < forgotmynick> my windows server can be pinged by doing "ping nas". a linux vm which has samba can be pinged by hostname but a linux vm can't. how do i make it pingable by hostname
08:19 < XCE> whats that thing the Brave people were trying to push
08:19 < XCE> something about tipping websites
08:19 < Jackass420> oh yea
08:19 < Jackass420> I have another one
08:20 < ayecee> Jackass420: i'm not sure you got this, so i'm just going to say it. "cigarette", in air quotes, was intended to mean cannabis.
08:20 < CyberManifest> Jackass420: like "Alexa: how do you spell cigarette?" ?
08:20 < ayecee> Jackass420: it wasn't a commentary on your spelling.
08:20 < XCE> lol
08:20 < Jackass420> No, more like spellcheck on facebook
08:20 < Jackass420> but like....FULLY integrated
08:21 < XCE> ayecee, hes too fully integrated with the "cigarettes" right now
08:21 < CyberManifest> XCE Patron or Twitch?
08:21 < Jackass420> This looks like what I'm searching for
08:21 < ayecee> big ideas coming
08:21 < Jackass420> http://jortho.sourceforge.net/
08:21 < XCE> no CyberManifest
08:21 < XCE> let me look it up
08:22 < ayecee> okay, but let's take that, and put a digital clock on it!
08:22 < Jackass420> BOOM
08:22 < XCE> https://basicattentiontoken.org/
08:22 < Jackass420> mind blown
08:22 < XCE> they were/are trying to push this
08:22 < CyberManifest> eww Java
08:23 < Jackass420> Where is a good malware archive when you need it these days?
08:24 < ayecee> huh. so advertising would be directed to those who are interested in it.
08:24 < ayecee> i like it.
08:24 < hexnewbie> Jackass420: Microsoft offer the ISO for download. Just duckduckgo for ‘windows 10 iso’
08:24 < ayecee> better than generic ads spammed to an uncaring audience.
08:24 < Jackass420> Windows 10?
08:25 < Jackass420> I'm running 7 and below, man.
08:25 < ayecee> gotta stay hidden from the man
08:25 < ayecee> amirite
08:25 < hexnewbie> Jackass420: It gives you a good malware archive for your digital aquarium (+ nice fonts if you extract the ISO)
08:25 < Jackass420> Sometimes I click ads just because I want revenue for the sites I visit.
08:25 < XCE> nothings wrong with staying off grid
08:25 < XCE> sometimes I click ads cause the site was still loading when I clicked
08:25 < XCE> and then it moved stuff on me!
08:26 < ayecee> sometimes i click ads so that i get more of that kind of ad.
08:26 < Jackass420> I got baited on a bitcoin mine today
08:26 < XCE> someone suggested I do that with yt video
08:26 < XCE> just nuke histories and start doing it
08:26 < XCE> so you get more cool stuff
08:26 < XCE> havent tried yet
08:27 < Jackass420> I always remove cookies and stuff from browser so I don't get same ads anymore.
08:27 < Jackass420> I used to wehn I was younger though.
08:27 < ycarene> Does gmp utilize fully utilize the processors capability?
08:27 < ayecee> seems like a good way to get ads you aren't interested in
08:27 < ayecee> telling you about products you don't care about
08:28 < ayecee> offering discounts on things you don't want to buy
08:28 < Jackass420> I really don't care about them. But I don't have any money either.
08:28 < supera_vaticano> its advantageous and the story is fun to read
08:28 < supera_vaticano> if you don't mind
08:28 < Jackass420> So it's not like I'm going to buy anything I want anyways.
08:28 < ayecee> classic
08:28 < hexnewbie> Anyhow, targeted ads are certainly more useful to all parties, but the tracking often used for it is invasive, and even illegal here. 50% of web sites now offer me to decline the tracking and disable the targeted ads (which I've yet to see)
08:29 < ayecee> you can disable the targeted ads, but they're still going to track.
08:29 < Jackass420> lol, I've never heard of a website asking me to disbale tracking for ads before
08:30 < ayecee> it's like giving up your data while getting nothing in return
08:30 < Jackass420> I searched how to get rid of a migrane once. I still get excedrin ads on my ps4. That was 4 years ago.
08:30 < ayecee> well yeah. you're not giving them a lot of data to go on.
08:30 < Jackass420> I also took the cheap route.
08:30 < ayecee> all they know is that you get headaches.
08:31 < Jackass420> Aspirin and coffee
08:31 < Dagmar> Don't search for dildos on Amazon then
08:31 < baobabfruit> you actually use the ps4 to browse the net ?
08:31 < Jackass420> When all the PC's are tied up.
08:31 < XCE> its better than just using your phone?
08:31 < Jackass420> I have a few laying around so it's more flexible since then
08:32 < Jackass420> But when you're already on it and it's connected to the internet, why not?
08:32 < baobabfruit> is it though ? i have an xbox but i wouldn't browse the net with that damn thing
08:32 < XCE> it was a question
08:32 < Jackass420> What if it's to just look something up and it's on?
08:32 < XCE> Id use my phone before I use my consoles
08:32 < baobabfruit> oh no specific reason other then that i think they work like shit to browse
08:32 < ayecee> once upon a time not everyone had phones
08:33 < Jackass420> just say Okay Xbox
08:33 < XCE> okay google
08:33 < ayecee> in the dark, distant past
08:33 < XCE> console browsers are probably mostly for sending links to people also on console
08:33 < Jackass420> or was it "hey xbox"
08:33 < Jackass420> That
08:33 < baobabfruit> i have no idea i dont use that ><
08:33 < baobabfruit> and also ayecee dont remind me of that past please
08:33 < Nexilva> is ZRAM compatible with hibernate/sleep etc.?
08:33 < Jackass420> and how to make icing when your phone and pc are off.
08:34 < XCE> your phone...off?
08:34 < Jackass420> I don't use the things.
08:34 < baobabfruit> what kind of person are you ><
08:34 < baobabfruit> fascinating
08:34 < Jackass420> And I'm a millenial.
08:34 < ayecee> Nexilva: yes
08:34 < hexnewbie> Nexilva: As in, suspending to zram, or as in suspend working while you also have zram in addition?
08:34 < Nexilva> Hi
08:34 < Jackass420> Snowflake power, right?
08:34 < baobabfruit> my thoughts
08:35 < Nexilva> As in havig 4gb of ram in laptop, and having 2gb zram compressed, and also having power settings enable suspend to disk on lid closed
08:35 < baobabfruit> e-x-a-c-t-l-y
08:35 < Nexilva> snowflake power
08:35 < Nexilva> huh?
08:35 < ayecee> Nexilva: no problem with ath
08:35 < ayecee> that, too
08:35 < Jackass420> Well since I couldn't root the damn thing, it was like a useless google spy phone.
08:35 < Nexilva> ayecee: great, thanks
08:35 < Nexilva> what is a snowflake power?
08:35 < Nexilva> you can use snow to generate power?
08:35 < baobabfruit> a useless google spy phone
08:35 < Jackass420> You know, power of the snowflakes
08:35 < Dagmar> It's what makes people think anyone cares about their paranoid delusions.
08:35 < ayecee> something to do with millenials, maybe
08:35 < baobabfruit> its certainly not useless
08:35 < Nexilva> like a hydro dam?
08:36 < Nexilva> ohhhh
08:36 < ayecee> that an avocado toast
08:36 < Nexilva> jeez.
08:36 < Jackass420> I couldn't get the original firmware
08:36 < Nexilva> That's hilarious.
08:36 < hexnewbie> Nexilva: If you mix with with anti-snow, it's pretty energetic (anti-snow being snow made of anti-protons and positrons)
08:36 < Nexilva> I totally misunderstood haha
08:36 < Dagmar> WEird.  Reboot
08:36 < Dagmar> @#$@#
08:36 < XCE> avocado scented "cigarettes"
08:36 < lnnb> Nexilva: hmm maybe with a thermopile
08:36 < ayecee> lol
08:36 < baobabfruit> people who read 1984, and now think they need to tell everybody how everything is a microphone
08:36 < Nexilva> thermople no?
08:36 < Nexilva> hot gates?
08:36 < Jackass420> EVERYTHING IS A MICROPHONE, MAN.
08:37 < XCE> thats thermopylae
08:37 < XCE> pylae
08:37 < XCE> thermo
08:37 < supera_vaticano> at least we're safe because we're intellectual
08:37 < baobabfruit> i dont conform to your standards man
08:37 < Nexilva> You know what' hilarious
08:37 < Jackass420> There's cameras in your cereal.
08:37 < ayecee> guv'ment came an took mah baby
08:37 < supera_vaticano> right?
08:37 < supera_vaticano> or no
08:37 < lnnb> maybe you could turn a highly sensitive thermopile into a microphone
08:37 < hays> avocado toast is good. but I usually just make my own
08:37 < Nexilva> People believe in God.
08:37 < Nexilva> That's hilarious.
08:37 < XCE> government approved dingos*
08:37 < Nexilva> Hear me out.
08:37 < ayecee> Nexilva: no, you should stop there
08:37 < Nexilva> People believe in a cosmic microphone...
08:37 < baobabfruit> a dingo ate my baby !
08:37 < Nexilva> but they fear the gov listening in.
08:37 < Disconsented> Nexilva> so is your face
08:37 < Dagmar> No need to fear it.,
08:37 < Dagmar> Just accept it.
08:37 < Nexilva> But they are okay with a cosmic microphine listening and a cosmic camera watching everything.
08:38 < XCE> the jewish god was the original thought police
08:38 < Nexilva> But they just can't handle the gov.
08:38 < cheapie> Everything is a microphone? Nah, everything is a speaker :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhWU_CO4Sl8&t=10
08:38 < Nexilva> That's hilarious.
08:38 < ayecee> XCE: okay, definitely should stop there.
08:38 < Jackass420> But wait, there's more!
08:38 < baobabfruit> Illumminaty i confirmed
08:38 < Jackass420> illliiiiminitntinttit
08:38 < XCE> I didnt even lit anything yet
08:38 < Jackass420> I'm about to light up mine...
08:38 < Nexilva> "I am okay with with God listening in on everything, and watching me go potty, but I can't handle gov survellience."
08:38 < CyberManifest> OpenAI or Open People?
08:38 < XCE> about to?
08:38 < Nexilva> Super hilarious.
08:39 < Jackass420> I don't like God watching me go potty....
08:39 < baobabfruit> id rather have the nsa with prism listen to my net usage, and to what i say then god beign around
08:39 < XCE> this channel got weird and offtopic pretty fast
08:39  * joseph_ slips anti-psych medication into every ones drinks
08:39 < Jackass420> lol the nsa is a fascade
08:39 < ayecee> ...
08:39 < hays> echoes of a dumber christopher hitchens
08:39 < baobabfruit> for the shadow govnerment right
08:40 < XCE> the NSA is just a front for the TSA
08:40 < baobabfruit> see i think
08:40 < Nexilva> Noting the hilarity of people's silly ideas. No consistency with their fear...
08:40 < ayecee> offtopic is kind of alright. offtopic and crazy paranoid is not.
08:40 < Nexilva> :)
08:40 < baobabfruit> i think its actually all HAL9000
08:40 < Jackass420> Damn
08:40 < hexnewbie> It's only offtopic until you realise they are putting code in your kernels!!
08:40 < ayecee> offtopic and religious, right out.
08:40 < Jackass420> I wrapped my weed to tight because I thought the shadow government was gonna find it...
08:41 < Nexilva> I religiously use Linux.
08:41 < XCE> ayecee how did you see the future
08:41 < ayecee> that's the spirit
08:41 < lnnb> the best are peizoelectric microphones, they use crystals to generate signal, crystalsss mann
08:41 < ayecee> XCE: it looked like the past
08:41 < baobabfruit> im on debian right now
08:41 < Jackass420> DONT TALK ABOUT THE CRYSTALS MAN
08:41 < Nexilva> Religion isn't offtopic so long as you worship Linus as God.
08:41 < Nexilva> Ha.
08:41 < XCE> some guy I knew from HS is pretty big into ormus
08:42 < hays> 1984 did not predict that people would rush to pay for all the microphones because it was easier that way to order cat food
08:42 < Nexilva> All Hail Linus, the Linux Giver!
08:42 < Nexilva> Haha.
08:42 < Jackass420> Is this IRC moderated?
08:42 < ayecee> it is
08:42 < Nexilva> Everything is moderated.
08:42 < ayecee> loosely
08:42 < XCE> its not +m
08:42 < Nexilva> But not in moderation.
08:42 < XCE> clearly unmoderated
08:42 < notmike> Praise be to jim. Giver of Debian.
08:42 < Sveta> giving is easy
08:42 < Jackass420> It's like 2AM here
08:42 < Jackass420> I think we can have an offtopic ADULT conversation...
08:43 < Nexilva> Sveta: for most people taking is easier than giving.
08:43 < hays> The almighty Bob Dobbs courtesy of Slackware
08:43 < Sveta> giving is pleasant and enjoyable
08:43 < Sveta> you just need to learn to do it right
08:43 < XCE> feel like more people giving than taking linux
08:43 < notmike> Debian is sort of like an std for computers though tbh.
08:43 < Jackass420> Poor bob dobbs
08:43 < Nexilva> That's a hilarious name.
08:43 < Nexilva> Bob Dob, haha.
08:43 < hexnewbie> Jackass420: What are you talking about? It's 10 in the morning, and I'm one hour late for work already
08:43 < Jackass420> dobbs
08:43 < hays> i feel that way about Redhat
08:44 < Jackass420> The World revolves around my antics
08:44 < ayecee> like flies circling roadkill
08:44 < Nexilva> Around the Sun.
08:44 < baobabfruit> im actually at work right now
08:44 < Nexilva> Rotates around its own axis.
08:44 < baobabfruit> what do you all do for a living
08:44 < Nexilva> Revolves the Sun!
08:44 < hays> seriously the RHEL kernel is like ancient
08:44 < Jackass420> moms basement haxor
08:45 < hexnewbie> hays: ^^ Truth.
08:45 < Elodin> why on those btrfs guides, people create a /btrfs subvol and attribute set-default 5 to it?
08:45 < Nexilva> The Sun revolves around the Galaxy's core.
08:45 < Jackass420> wb you guys?
08:45 < hays> and Fedora is constantly broken
08:45 < Nexilva> It's all a cool spiral moving forward
08:45 < baobabfruit> Sysadmin
08:45 < XCE> forward?
08:45 < Nexilva> Everything is spinning.
08:45 < Nexilva> Even my head!
08:45 < notmike> Falling too
08:45 < Nexilva> From all the 'stupid' in this channel.
08:46 < Nexilva> The room is spinning, cuz it's so dumb in here.
08:46 < Jackass420> I can't even hack filezilla right now tho
08:46 < hexnewbie> Elodin: I created /var/lib/btrfs-vol1 myself, but I don't believe there was ‘attribute set-default 5’ at the time. What does that do?
08:46 < ayecee> too baked
08:46 < Nexilva> Anyway, I'm delirious. It's too late
08:46 < Nexilva> I've been up for a long time.
08:46 < Sveta> Nexilva: nini :)
08:46 < Nexilva> g'nite.
08:46 < hexnewbie> Er, or was it /var/lib/btrfs-pool1?
08:46 < Jackass420> Come to papi
08:47 < hays> i harness the power of the sun in the form of chemical energy for later use
08:47 < Jackass420> No.
08:47 < Jackass420> Science is bad.
08:47 < XCE> thats why theres scientology
08:47 < Jackass420> But I still wanna archive stuff.
08:47 < XCE> they protect us from science
08:47 < Nexilva> Soon as this song is over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7FhsNWr65g
08:47 < Jackass420> Scientology is also a lie.
08:48 < Jackass420> There's no such thing as aliens.
08:48 < Jackass420> We are all alone.
08:48 < Nexilva> 'm letting go of all my fears, I won't let this world defeat me
08:48 < Nexilva> I'll walk this road for a thousand years until this heart stops beating
08:48 < Nexilva> \m/
08:48 < Jackass420> But at least we have each other.
08:48 < XCE> won by default
08:48 < XCE> universal victory
08:48 < Nexilva> We are aliens.
08:48 < Nexilva> Galactic Panspermia.
08:48 < hexnewbie> Jackass420: If there are no aliens, then *who* created systemd as means to sabotage humanity?
08:49 < XCE> the aliens are inside the earth
08:49 < ayecee> can't argue with that
08:49 < Jackass420> Why is every linux such garbagy trash and there's no legacy anywhere?
08:49 < CyberManifest> Jackass420: https://winworldpc.com/library/operating-systems => https://archive.org/
08:49 < Nexilva> We came to Earth from the previous star system that blew up. Our mother Star died, and then Sun formed from her remnants.
08:49 < Nexilva> As did our solar system.
08:49 < Jackass420> I mean....not the actual distros but like...
08:49 < XCE> are you saying the sun recycles
08:49 < Nexilva> All stars recycle, yes.
08:49 < CyberManifest> Jackass420: Slackware legacy?
08:49 < Jackass420> THE ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE OF LINUX BLOWS DONKEY WHALES.
08:50 < ayecee> okay guys, i think he's hitting critical mass
08:50 < Nexilva> Even neutron stars
08:50 < hays> does it? or maybe you don't understand it
08:50 < notmike> Jackass420: ur dumb
08:50 < ayecee> the stupid is imploding
08:50 < Jackass420> Seriously.
08:50 < XCE> whats wrong with the inode scheme?
08:50 < hexnewbie> Jackass420: I'm on a mix of painkillers right now, shouting like that makes my head hurt.
08:50 < XCE> it works fine
08:50 < Jackass420> I'm supposed to search pool?
08:50 < Dagmar> Oh he expects there's some sort of grand plan, apparently
08:50 < hays> boomer needs win7
08:50 < Jackass420> I'm just saying.
08:50 < Jackass420> Where's the freaking categories?
08:51 < baobabfruit> I'M AFRAID I CAN'T DO THAT DAVE
08:51 < Nexilva> Check out Brian Green, Lawrance Krauss, and Sean Caroll
08:51 < Jackass420> lol
08:51 < XCE> categories?
08:51 < Nexilva> Good stuff.
08:51 < supera_vaticano> what do i do my computer doesnt boot
08:51 < Jackass420> Yeah.
08:51 < Jackass420> Categories.
08:51 < supera_vaticano> without this software
08:51 < supera_vaticano> i need to ware it
08:51 < hays> if you want categories you are going to need reiser 4 and an alternate universe
08:51 < Dagmar> supera_vaticano: Have you tried turning it off and back on again?
08:51 < baobabfruit> ^
08:51 < supera_vaticano> yea but it needs the ware
08:51 < CyberManifest> cigarette categories?
08:52 < Nexilva> Dagmar: the IT crowd!
08:52 < Jackass420> Like....Internet, games, utilities/compression
08:52 < Jackass420> Yes
08:52 < supera_vaticano> without waring its not opera
08:52 < Nexilva> The button turns it on and off.
08:52 < Nexilva> No, not the one on your clothes.
08:52 < day> question about crosscompiling. when i compile a package with certain library versions, does the target require the exact same versions of said libraries?
08:53 < ayecee> day: pretty much
08:53 < Nexilva> day: yes
08:53 < Jackass420> Cigarette categories.
08:53 < Jackass420> Where is the damn capitalization?
08:53 < day> damnit
08:53 < ayecee> maybe not exact, but pretty close
08:53 < Nexilva> day: you can compile a static binary w/o lib dependency.
08:53 < XCE> he ODed
08:53 < Nexilva> it will take more ram, but it won't have to depend on anything.
08:53 < XCE> look what youve done ayecee
08:53 < day> Nexilva: yeah but is that always an option? and easily doable in complex packages?
08:53 < Nexilva> I do static compilations as a last resort.
08:53 < XCE> just run java obv
08:54 < hays> .../bin is for stuff required to boot. /usr/bin is for stuff not required to boot, /usr/local is for stuff outside the package mgmt
08:54 < ayecee> just call me cassandra
08:54 < Nexilva> day: probably not in complex multi part packages.
08:54 < XCE> sorry, cas tabcompletes to Caseous
08:54 < hays> then /home is for the user
08:54 < XCE> no cassandra
08:54 < day> Nexilva: yeah im mosly interested int tmux, irssi etc. so its a bunch of programs that i want to port
08:54 < hays> . unix structure is pretty well organized
08:54 < Jackass420> I just think it could use some spring cleaning from the 90's is all.
08:55 < Nexilva> yes, those should be fine to build statically, but what exactly is your issue/goal.
08:55 < azarus> Jackass420: so it should be /ConfigurationFiles/Tmux.conf for you or something
08:55 < Nexilva> Why do you want to rebuild them?
08:55 < day> Nexilva: crosscompiling those packages to run them on a synology nas
08:55 < ayecee> (cassandra, of greek mythology, could foresee the future but could not change it)
08:55 < XCE> did you try cleaning out your water pipe
08:55 < hays> FreeBSD actually makes /usr/local/etc/ which I guess makes sense but it also a little weird
08:55 < Jackass420> No......
08:55 < Jackass420> Like.
08:55 < Jackass420> A software library
08:56 < Jackass420> That's got specified categories for everything.
08:56 < Jackass420> So it's easy to read and find.
08:56 < Nexilva> day: yeah it should be fine. Find whatever is in synology as standard packaged libs and compile against those. If not, build static binaries. NAS should have tons of RAM, so not an issue for these console apps
08:56 < hays> but they have ports, and all the ports go in /usr/local as well, so I guess you have to be a special kind of crazy to build stuff outside portage
08:56 < Jackass420> Like the mirror sites are so freaking hard to navigate.
08:56 < thebigj> What are the possible ways to make GNU/Linux SD card read-only?
08:56 < thebigj> GNU/Linux kernel is Hypriot version 1.3.0 (https://github.com/hypriot/image-builder-rpi/releases/download/v1.3.0/hypriotos-rpi-v1.3.0.img.zip)
08:56 < thebigj> Root filesystem is BTRFS (It is acually creating a snapshot of root filesystem but I greped for 'mount' in rootfs but didn't found any trace.)
08:56 < thebigj> Making SD card readonly is done with a reason to reduce the risk of SD card corruption.
08:56 < thebigj> Somehow the person who coded this functionality isn't available
08:56 < thebigj> From past few days I am trying to find an answer to this questions.
08:56 < Nexilva> Good night.
08:56 < thebigj> I followed few blogs online of making SD card readonly for Raspberry PI but still not able to find that method implemented at our SD card code.
08:56 < Nexilva> o/
08:56 < thebigj> Can anyone throw some hints and share their views on this? I feel completely lost now. Thanks!
08:56 < day> Nexilva: yeah step 1 only works up to a year old version of irssi.
08:57 < Nexilva> day: use weechat instead. I'm going to bed.
08:57 < day> pff
08:57 < Nexilva> Real men use telnet anyway.
08:57 < Nexilva> :)
08:57 < Nexilva> telnet into irc!
08:57 < Nexilva> everyting /raw
08:57 < hays> I use Procomm Plus
08:57 < Jackass420> Telnet repo is boss!
08:57 < day> pong 232
08:57 < day> ups
08:57 < XCE> just man -k
08:57 < Jackass420> no
08:58 < baobabfruit> Does someone here have some knowledge about bash scripting ?
08:58 < day> i mean ive done it :^)
08:58 < Jackass420> I was thinking of sunet
08:58 < Jackass420> sunet archive is boss
08:58 < ayecee> baobabfruit: no
08:58 < Jackass420> Organize everything like sunet
08:58 < ayecee> baobabfruit: no one uses bash scripting anymore
08:58 < hays> i've done a little bash scripting. what a horrible yet useful language
08:58 < Jackass420> I made a bash script eraser program.
08:59 < azarus> posix shell is alright I suppose
08:59 < Jackass420> It defeats all competition.
08:59  * azarus prefers ksh
08:59 < hays> if someone made a pythonshell i'd be all over that
08:59 < baobabfruit> no one uses it anymore ><
08:59 < azarus> there are plenty
08:59 < azarus> (of python shells)
08:59 < Jackass420> So many freaking languages
08:59 < day> the quirks it has. $((a+b)), or the mandatory spaces for " [[ " or "str = "asdf"" being a violoation due to the spaces :D
09:00 < Jackass420> How does anybody work in that environment anyways?
09:00 < baobabfruit> i did application development for 5 years before this
09:00 < hays> azarus: as a bash/zsh replacement?
09:00 < azarus> hays: some systems don't use bash or zsh at all
09:00 < baobabfruit> now working and studying as for medior sysadmin, but bash is doing my head in
09:00 < Jackass420> I never wanted to dev something that was already written. Hence, I don't know any code.
09:00 < azarus> ah you mean python shells
09:00 < hays> Jackass420: they have more flexible neurons
09:01 < XCE> make your own language obv, Jackass420
09:01 < Jackass420> That sounded like an insult lol
09:01 < hays> azarus: yeah i'd love a modernized shell that used a language not from the 70s
09:01 < day> that being said all in all i prefer to write bash over python
09:01 < Jackass420> Oh yeah
09:02 < hays> everyone would be using python if they just didnt make whitespace so important. that makes so many people mad
09:02 < azarus> it does make me not want to use it
09:02 < day> hays: :^) also print () D:
09:02 < hays> heh python 3
09:02 < day> if python2 had done the same i wouldnt mind it :^)
09:03 < hays> im actually kind of used to print("foo".format({}whatever)) now
09:03 < var-g> time to dig up your Perl manuals :^)
09:03 < MadMan1440> shoot
09:03 < XCE> now just use printf instead
09:03 < hays> i kinda skipped perl
09:03 < azarus> pfft, text based stuff? use awk ;)
09:03 < leothenarwhal> Hi, what should i take in consideration if a want to give sudo access to a script securly
09:03 < MadMan1440> Welp
09:03 < MadMan1440> Nobody knows who I am anymore.
09:04 < MadMan1440> being offline
09:04 < hays> whenever i try to use sed/awk things get stupid fast
09:04 < hays> i mean for basic substitution, whatever
09:04 < hexnewbie> Obligatory easy-writing boilerplate: printf = lambda t, *a, **kw: print(t % (a or kw))
09:05 < hays> yeah we should make a init system written in .. HASKELL
09:05 < azarus> please don't
09:05 < hays> force everyone to learn monads
09:06 < day> i love the butterfly effect in haskell. how tiny changes have massive performance impacts :P
09:06 < sauvin> hays, if you know awk, perl will blow your mind.
09:06 < pottsy> I think K himself says AWK is mostly appropriate for <5 line operations
09:07 < hays> i mean i might have learned some perl when i was 15 but promptly forgot it
09:08 < baobabfruit> i think we should all just go back to assembly
09:08 < baobabfruit> because why not.
09:08 < hays> for me python is more expressive. for sysadmin type stuff, doing things like parsing random config files, looking for a setting, changing it, and leaving the rest of the file intact sometimes requires more than sed/awk can reasonably do
09:09 < hays> baobabfruit: you know, a lot of people should go back to assembly
09:09 < day> :D
09:09 < baobabfruit> @hays im just using it to access some files and things
09:09 < hays> a lot of times what you want to do can be expressed pretty succinctly in asm
09:09  * day puts hays back on the assembly line
09:09 < var-g> baobabfruit: better than the `bloat and die` mess people are used to these days
09:10 < hays> there's a Dijkstra letter that is pretty ornery i am thinking of
09:10 < baobabfruit> ^ learns you to be very effective and precise
09:10 < pottsy> proficiency and speed in perl/regex is an impressive thing to behold
09:10 < hays> it was one of his responses to his goto considered harmful articles
09:10 < baobabfruit> the random junk i have seen, in php
09:10 < baobabfruit> makes me want to take my eyes out
09:11 < hays> oh yeah here he takes down Frank Rubin https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1009.html
09:12 < my_mind> hey is anyone here familiar with rdesktop?
09:12 < my_mind> it's really slow
09:12 < baobabfruit> never heard of it
09:12 < baobabfruit> what is it
09:12 < hays> Dijkstra's pseudocode is wonderfully indecipherable
09:12 < my_mind> RDP client for linux
09:12 < baobabfruit> go use remminna
09:12 < hays> it actually looks a lot like bash script
09:12 < pottsy> 'bloat and die' var-g is that a terryism
09:12 < baobabfruit> also Dijkstra is a dutch name, is he dutch ?
09:13 < my_mind> remmina is complicated to install, i installed it from synaptic, and rdp addon didn't install correctly
09:13 < baobabfruit> what distro are you on ?
09:13 < var-g> pottsy: lol
09:14 < my_mind> i used the snap version and it left a loop device laying around
09:14 < var-g> of course it is
09:14 < my_mind> baobabfruit: Kubuntu 18.04
09:14 < baobabfruit> ....
09:14 < baobabfruit> then how is remmina hard to install ? its in the repo
09:14 < hays> I gotta go code up some Oregon Trail from this book I bought on Cartridge Basic
09:14 < jim> baobabfruit, hi, I got a request... could you specify who you're talking to? (and, I need to do that more often too)
09:14 < hays> excited because my sound system can play 3 notes at once
09:15 < my_mind> baobabfruit: it installs, yes, but the repo version doesn't have the rdp addon working
09:15 < hays> and with this Racore expansion pack I get more memory that anyone could possibly use
09:16 < jim> hays, are you an electronic musician?
09:16 < baobabfruit> my_mind really ? i never had trouble with it, sorry cant help you i guess
09:16 < hays> no im just making random computing references from the 1980s and 1990s
09:16 < my_mind> baobabfruit: you installed it with the snap package? or terminal? or synaptic?
09:16 < baobabfruit> hey hays, hack the planet
09:16 < baobabfruit> my_mind terminal 100% of the time
09:17 < hays> I've got this great collection of shareware on my zip drive
09:17 < my_mind> baobabfruit: snap or regular?
09:17 < hays> gotta keep it safe for the apocolypse
09:17 < baobabfruit> hays now theres a word i haven't heard in a long time "shareware"
09:17 < baobabfruit> also my_mind regular
09:18 < baobabfruit> maybe ill fire up the old atari 800xl today just because
09:18 < jim> hays, there are a good amount of conversations going on right now... I think I'd request that the random comments be less often, to make more room for help conversations
09:18 < hays> yeah but you gotta get them off those floppies
09:18 < hays> ok :)
09:19 < jim> thanks, I appreciated (note, I didn't say stop, I'm just saying "slower"
09:19 < boojum> i'm using three diffrent routing tables - can i somehow inform ping to not go through the default one but one of the other two?
09:19 < hays> i think im just a bit loopy from codeine
09:19 < hays> boojum: the routing tables are what tells ping where to go
09:20 < XCE> cant spell codeine without code
09:20 < hays> ping is a different layer dude
09:20 < boojum> hays: sure, but can i tell him not to use the default one? use one of the other two, or supply it with a completly different one?
09:22 < hays> you can define networks be routed to different physical interfaces
09:22 < hays> then anything not specified goes to the default route
09:23 < hays> so you could be like, send 172.16.1.0/24 to eno2, but then make default route eno1
09:23 < hays> then if you pring 172.16.1.1, it will go to.. eno2
09:24 < boojum> hays: cool, that exactly what i was looking for. thanks!
09:25 < Dagmar> Ahem.  There is also that since ping creates raw packets, you can just _tell_ it which interface to use
09:26 < hays> i didnd't know that about ping
09:26 < CyberManifest> Can anyone clean this up https://github.com/jbfavre/bcwc_pcie and make it coherent for modern kernels?
09:26 < Dagmar> Reading man pages is half the battle
09:26 < hays> i have it up right now
09:27 < boojum> i just found nping with --dest-mac and --interface options.  i'm happy again :-)
09:27 < CyberManifest> Linux manual entry for ping, acquired from terminal command: 'man ping': http://dpaste.com/3QC8F37
09:27 < hays> learned about ping -r today. neat
09:30 < metanovii> hi
09:30 < metanovii> if somebody use etcd  - check please  https://github.com/kelseyhightower/confd/issues/733
09:38 < baobabfruit> Alright here we go
09:38 < baobabfruit> i have an ssh session to a server, no gui
09:38 < autopsy> baobabfruit, oh doin it that way eh?
09:38 < baobabfruit> now i execute a script it has a menu and what not, and i want to be able to start a new ssh session from said script
09:39 < baobabfruit> to the same server, have it wait until its closed and then continue the script
09:39 < baobabfruit> ideas ?
09:40 < autopsy> baobabfruit, don't you mean to logout?
09:41 < baobabfruit> autopsy no, so say i execute my script now first thing it asks is "where do you want me to run ?" i scp it to the location i want it and start an ssh to said computer where the script is then run
09:41 < baobabfruit> this is working, and automatically code :
09:41 < baobabfruit> scp -r hal9000.sh $ans:~/hal9000.sh
09:41 < baobabfruit> 	ssh $ans "./hal9000.sh"
09:42 < baobabfruit> those two lines work, so im now in the script on a remote server
09:42 < autopsy> baobabfruit, oh. Use disown $pid
09:42 < baobabfruit> option 10 of the main menu is "start a shell"
09:42 < autopsy> So you can logout with a stopped job owned by your user.
09:42 < autopsy> 10 start a shell.
09:43 < autopsy> /bin/bash
09:43 < baobabfruit> i want to hit 10, get a ssh session do some stuff
09:43 < baobabfruit> exit said shell and be back in the script
09:44 < autopsy> So use system("/bin/bash -l");
09:44 < autopsy> For the menu entry.
09:44 < autopsy> Or exec("/bin/bash -l");
09:45 < autopsy> exec transfers the thread to the shell though as a parent so when the shell terminates so does the scrippt.
09:47 < baobabfruit> yeah like you said exec works but kills
09:47 < autopsy> Use system()
09:48 < CyberManifest> put & at the end of the ssh line in the script?
09:49 < baobabfruit> no i want to be able to execute commands in said shell
09:49 < baobabfruit> not have it in the background
09:50 < CyberManifest> &&
09:50 < CyberManifest> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/100704/difference-between-executing-multiple-commands-with-and
09:51 < autopsy> baobabfruit, exec transfers the current shell over to the command you tell it.
09:51 < baobabfruit> i got it to work now
09:52 < baobabfruit> i tried autopsy's recommendations
09:52 < baobabfruit> which didn't work the way i wanted so what i did was this
09:52 < baobabfruit> function start_shell(){
09:52 < baobabfruit> 	shell="/bin/bash"
09:52 < baobabfruit> 	$shell
09:52 < baobabfruit> 	main
09:52 < baobabfruit> }
09:52 < baobabfruit> main is a function (my main menu)
09:52 < baobabfruit> if you start a shell like that and then hit exit, it returns you to the script
09:53 < autopsy> baobabfruit, ok. So it works then?
09:53 < baobabfruit> yeah it does
09:53 < baobabfruit> thanks
09:53 < autopsy> Good.
09:54 < autopsy> baobabfruit, bash -l is for a login shell.
10:05 < baobabfruit> thanks for your help
10:05 < baobabfruit> what do you do for a living (just curious)
10:06 < autopsy> I build computers and run Linux on them.
10:06 < autopsy> Fedora Linux.
10:07 < autopsy> Well gotta turn on Virtualization in my BIOS.
10:10 < spacelord_> Hello, I'd like to install linux on my ideapad, only hiccup is that my battery is non-removable, will that damage its lifespan? (on windoze, I can limit it's charging level when plugged in to 60%)
10:12 < Tazmain> spacelord_, I know my laptop can limit it in the BIOS, but I am not sure
10:13 < oerheks> "my battery is non-removable, will that damage its lifespan?" .. do you think undercharging helps?
10:14 < Tazmain> oerheks, leave it at 80% charge is ideal
10:14 < spacelord_> I know that leaving it charging while it has reached 100% for sure alters its lifespan
10:14 < CoJaBo> spacelord_: Lenovo, despite being a garbage brand, does support that under linux for some models
10:15 < spacelord_> Tazmain, you own a thinkpad I assume :)
10:15 < Tazmain> spacelord_, I haz one, but I am on a dell now
10:15 < storge> i think tools lile powertop or something might allow setting it, but hopefully that's all in the thing's bios
10:15 < spacelord_> CoJaBo, LMAO, I've figured this out, but I think that it's too late now :(
10:15 < Tywin> Are there cases for building a kernel without SMP for a multicore processor?
10:15 < spacelord_> need to check the bios then :)
10:16 < CoJaBo> spacelord_: or do it in linux, if your model is supported
10:37 < spacelord_> found the answer for that https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_IdeaPad_720s#Battery_Conservation_Mode
10:38 < autopsy> Ultimate Power Saving Mode!
10:38 < autopsy> Batteries now won't die after 10 years.
10:39 < spacelord_> autopsy, battery death and your username go hand in hand :D
10:39 < autopsy> Ahhh !
10:39 < autopsy> My other nickname is coroner.
10:39 < spacelord_> hehe
10:42 < autopsy> spacelord_, your nickname is quite the off-brand.
10:42 < autopsy> SPACE LORD
10:43 < storge> my other nickname is not spacelord
10:44 < E|nMann> when i have /dir1 and /dir2 and add and delete to/in both then solutions that use rsync or unison will bring the deleted files back, right?
10:45 < Desu> trivial to test that yourself
10:45 < autopsy> E|nMann, rsync will sync directories for you like that.
10:45 < autopsy> E|nMann, I think it's rsync -av /dir1 /dir2
10:46 < autopsy> Tes it.
10:47 < storge> and remember /dir1 != /dir1/  ...in other words, specified path is critical with rsync
10:48 < jim> right, make sure you understand what having a trailing / means, and what it means when it's not there
10:49 < jim> there are some subtlties there
10:49 < storge> ^ what he said better than me
10:49 < storge> :)
10:51 < autopsy> rsync / -av /home/autopsy/Backup/rootfs/
10:51 < storge> i've made a real mess of a large backup by misunderstanding the trailing /
10:52 < storge> it was quite sobering, especially after being in here for years telling people to go read the manual
10:53 < E|nMann> huge manuals scare me
10:54 < storge> E|nMann: man man  ...once you understand how to search man pages, they magically unsuckify
10:54 < storge> at least for me it was a whole new world
10:55 < storge> some of them are pretty epic aren't they
10:56 < gidna> Hello
10:56 < storge> hi gidna
10:56 < jim> E|nMann, when you read a man page (especially a larger one), what could happen... you could totally understand the whole thing you were reading about, and improve your ability to reason in that realm... or, you could learn a couple things, and not get others... or... you could totally not get anything...
10:57 < jim> hi gidna
10:58 < jim> E|nMann, the point I'm getting to, is that reading man pages is a skill, just like using the commands they document
10:58 < gidna> Hello jim
10:58 < storge> i know what you mean. sometimes the more i read, i feel like i'm wading into water that slowly creeps up over my head
10:58 < E|nMann> a skill that needs training?
10:58 < gidna> yesterday I tried to install the debian iso you suggested me, but it fails..
10:58 < spacelord_> autopsy, actually I got my nickname through a 3-day trial handle generator, so I wouldn't say that it's that special :D
10:58 < jim> E|nMann, yes! I was just now getting to that!
10:58 < storge> it is a skill that needs training, and 'man man' can help a lot
10:58 < E|nMann> :)
10:58 < autopsy> spacelord_, oh lord.
10:59 < spacelord_> :D
10:59 < gidna> I burned it on a pendrive and during the install it asks me to enter a CD-ROm..
10:59 < autopsy> man man fork memcpy
10:59 < autopsy> gidna, you need a USB disk?
10:59 < jim> E|nMann, I would invite you to pick different man pages and read through them... maybe the first few times you don't get anything at all, then things will improve
11:00 < E|nMann> jim: i would like that, yes
11:00 < jim> E|nMann, as you learn how things are stated in man pages and where different things are in them
11:00 < E|nMann> i am on "man man" right now
11:00 < storge> start with basic ones for commands you'll use a lot, like 'man ls'
11:00 < storge> or 'man cp
11:01 < notmike> man no way
11:01 < autopsy> man yes way dude
11:01 < jim> yeah that's a good idea, and also commands you -never- use, just to get more practice reading man pages
11:01 < autopsy> man rsync
11:01 < autopsy> man VirtualBox
11:01 < storge> over the years i think the ones i've mentioned to newer users the most are: man less, man grep, man man, and yes man rsync is a common one
11:02 < autopsy> man ssh
11:02 < azarus> ^
11:02 < azarus> that one's nice
11:02 < autopsy> man find man locate man man
11:02 < jim> we're very strange here, we are not going to force you or especially shame you into reading the man pages, -even though- that's how most of us came up
11:02 < autopsy> man updatedb
11:02  * storge waits for the obligatory man joke that someone always tells
11:02 < notmike> man fire
11:02 < pheonix83> or just be lazy and try out the --help option that gives a basic of the command structure
11:02 < autopsy> man woman
11:02 < jim> fireman?
11:03 < autopsy> man fireman wow.
11:03 < storge> if you want a nice brain cooker, man screen
11:03 < notmike> foo(): man -ch u
11:03 < pheonix83> lol
11:03 < EvaLuAtor> Hello. Since creat(2) (or open(2) with O_CREAT) requires file permission argument, why us the umask(2) needed? Is it to compensate for code that does creat("foo", 0777); ?
11:03 < phunkBot> Hello EvaLuAtor
11:04 < autopsy> EvaLuAtor, umask sets the bit mask for newly created files.
11:04 < notmike> screen > tmux
11:04 < EvaLuAtor> autopsy, I know what it does
11:04 < autopsy> What is screen and tmux?
11:04 < autopsy> EvaLuAtor, oh ok. Sorry.
11:04 < storge> screen and tmux are terminal multiplexers
11:05 < notmike> It's like a sort of rabbit hole.
11:05 < storge> very useful for heavy terminal users or those who want to get more out of a single tty
11:05 < baobabfruit> autopsy still here ?
11:05 < EvaLuAtor> but I'm not seeing a way to create a file without explicitly specifying its permissions bit
11:05 < EvaLuAtor> *bits
11:05 < amincd> Hi, I'm trying to use sed to match a line with only a space followed by a newline character. My sed skills are quite rusty, any suggestions?
11:06 < jim> autopsy, they let you run stuff from the shell that would take a long time.... say it's on a remote: you can detach and disconnect your net connection while the remote happily continues doing whatever it is
11:06 < phunkBot> Hello jim
11:06 < storge> screen and tmux allow you to connect, disconnect, and reconnect to a running process. and example is: you ssh into your home computer from work, and join your irssi or weechat irc, then you disconnect from work, drive home, reconnect to the screen or tmux session, and continue chatting---and we here never see you log out.
11:06 < jim> phunkBot, hi
11:07 < autopsy> jim, ah ok. I'll look into those.
11:07 < jim> autopsy, tmux is newer (and some may think: more neato)
11:08 < notmike> You can link up with the resistance there. They can join your session by attaching with you.
11:08 < phunkBot> Hello notmike
11:08 < notmike> Hi phunkBot
11:08 < phunkBot> Hello notmike
11:08 < storge> my habit is to always run irssi in a screen session. if i tinker and break my X windows or something, i merely drop to a tty, connect and keep chatting. this has been super helpful when trying to diagnose X problems without endless reboots
11:08 < longxia> EvaLuAtor: point is, you can't expect all software to set the permission bits just like you want them to be, so umask is there as on override.
11:08 < notmike> Lol
11:08 < jim> Hi phunkBot
11:08 < phunkBot> Hello jim
11:09 < notmike> Hello phunkBot!
11:09 < phunkBot> Hello notmike
11:09 < notmike> I love you phunkBot
11:09 < phunkBot> notmike: yes..... you rang?
11:09 < jim> phunkbot, I would have to request you turn that off
11:09 < notmike> phunkBot: will I ever have a bf?
11:09 < phunkBot> notmike: yes..... you rang?
11:09 < EvaLuAtor> longxia, well, I expect software to do what is "right", if I had any doubts, I could as well expect it to shred my disk
11:10 < notmike> phunkBot: list
11:10 < phunkBot> notmike: yes..... you rang?
11:10 < storge> i'm using both tmux and screen on my desktop, right now. i prefer them for different things. i prefer tmux for visual multiplexing of terminals, and screen for tabbed windows, so i use them both. occasionally one inside the other. but i'm weird like that.
11:10 < notmike> phunkBot: commands
11:10 < phunkBot> notmike: yes..... you rang?
11:10 < EvaLuAtor> longxia, umask prevents creat("foo", 0777); but that followed by chmod. So that means some programmers are somehow used to give write permissions to the world, which doesn't seem like a good practice to me
11:10 < EvaLuAtor> s/but that/but not that/
11:11 < jim> phunkBot, as of this moment, you can stay... but only if you speak as yourself, and not have any autoresponders
11:11 < storge> like if i went into tty right now, i'd attach to my tmux session and visually parition the big black screen, and then in one of them i might connect to my screen session which is running this irssi chat
11:11 < storge> i could do both in either, but ... i like what i like
11:13 < longxia> EvaLuAtor: you fixate on 777, but that's just one example. A program may set 644 and you might still want to overrule that so it becomes 640.
11:13 < pheonix83> !leave
11:13 < phunkBot> As you wish pheonix83, Goodbye everyone!
11:13 < storge> the main thing i don't like about tmux is they have a habit of deprecating config settings, while screen seems never to, so my tmux config starts misbehaving over so often, and i go look and sure enough, some config setting has been renamed and i have to reconfig. it annoys.
11:14 < storge> but that's part of tmux being newer and evolving. at least that's the grace i grant them.
11:14 < jim> pheonix83, thanks. there are at least a couple channels where you can test your bot
11:14 < baobabfruit> You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?
11:14 < baobabfruit> sorry wrong channel
11:15 < jim> baobabfruit, run that line again... this time, as scooby doo
11:15 < EvaLuAtor> longxia, you are right, also I think the program shouldn't decide permissions for user and group, that's user's/administrator's business
11:15 < pheonix83> jim: yeh it should have been in #tstchan i made for that purpose didnt realize it joined here was making a coffee. must have hit the focus channel keybind sorry for that
11:15 < storge> baobabfruit: do you ever use baobab the program? it's one of my favorite gui programs, aside from gparted, stellarium, and actual games
11:16 < jim> pheonix83, no big deal, I didn't have to pull out the big guns to shoot it down or anything
11:16 < baobabfruit> i didn't know it was a program, this is my gamer tag <
11:16 < storge> The More You Know ----===X
11:16 < pheonix83> storage: is boabab thats named as Disks in the menu's right?
11:17 < baobabfruit> it is indeed >< today i learned
11:17 < storge> pheonix83: it's a disk space program like the old filelight, but idon't know what Disks on what menu you mean
11:17 < pheonix83> jum: lol yeh thanks for that :D i freaked whein it seen its name up the chat lol
11:17 < baobabfruit> Disk Usage Analyzer
11:17 < baobabfruit> cool
11:17 < pheonix83> *jim:
11:17 < storge> baobabfruit: it makes pretty pie-graphs of your disk usage
11:18 < storge> baobabfruit: it can be helpful to get an eyeball of where you're junk is collecting
11:18 < baobabfruit> quoting dirty harry lines at bad sectors. Seems reasonable to me.
11:18 < pheonix83> storage: yeh think its called Disks in like xfce4 programs menu and stuff. ive used it quite a bit great program and easy to use
11:19 < pheonix83> storage: i find gparted loads slow when you have a windows installed HDD connected.
11:19 < baobabfruit> thats just linux telling you to step up your game
11:19 < baobabfruit> no windowze
11:19 < storge> pheonix83: i only ever run it live from a thumbdrive so i don't know the difference. you mean when it scans an installed NTFS? i suppose it might
11:19 < pheonix83> lol couldnt agree more :D
11:20 < pheonix83> storage: yeh most likely the NTFS partitions
11:21 < baobabfruit> Btrfs
11:21 < baobabfruit> love that shit
11:22 < E|nMann> <beep> better use: stuff
11:22 < storge> i'm enjoying my kernel autobuild script so much. i should have done it years ago. i type 'chkrnl' and it queries kernel.org for latest stable version and reports it to me with a prompt to install it. if i select yes, it gets it, untars it, goes through all my make steps, installs the kernel, and prompts me to reboot.
11:22 < baobabfruit> ◔_◔
11:22 < pheonix83> spent an hour on the neighbours computer trying to get windows updates running again. kept telling me the service was not running and to reboot to solve the problem. rebooting did not solve anything. had to manually stop the update service and then delete everything in the windows/SoftwareDistribution directory then start the service again. now the update works again :/ what a nightmare
11:22 < storge> now i just need to prettify it with colored echos and whatnot
11:23 < E|nMann> and a proper man page
11:23 < baobabfruit> windows..updates...
11:23 < storge> hah
11:23 < baobabfruit> proper horror show right there
11:24 < baobabfruit> dont you just love the "im going to randomly reboot your computer now because updates."
11:24 < autopsy> storge, that's mad. I have some scripts like that for modifying LiveISO files back for Fedora 15 including packaging rt24x00 modules and installing them to the rootfs of the LiveISO.
11:24 < autopsy> Updates!
11:24 < autopsy> Random!
11:24 < autopsy> YEAH
11:24 < pheonix83> haha yeh i seen the updates running and said.... yep its working... laters! and got out of there lol
11:24 < autopsy> Just say YEAH
11:24 < storge> autopsy: nice
11:25 < autopsy> Fedora 15 had a Ext3.img squashed with mksquashfs 4.1 and then it was done using mkisofs.
11:25 < pheonix83> im running gentoo so good old eix gentoo-sources shows me the latest i can install if i want :D
11:25 < autopsy> You had to loopback mount all the images and copy the contents out of it.
11:26 < Minnebo> Hi
11:27 < Minnebo> If I do apt-get install mysql-server
11:27 < pheonix83> hey Minnebo
11:27 < Minnebo> and after that I install mysql-apt-config_0.8.10-1_all.deb
11:27 < storge> pheonix83: i use apt for everything else, but i like to compile latest kernels as they're released, which is way ahead of debian's schedule, and since i run a localmodconfig kernel spec for this particular laptop, my compiles are small and fast
11:27 < Minnebo> is it correct that my my.cnf is all about mariadb instead mysqld (or am I talking noobie)
11:27 < baobabfruit> Minnebo first of all, just do apt install
11:27 < storge> it's about 5 to 7 minutes from when i click yes to installing the new kernel, and thats on an old laptop
11:28 < baobabfruit> no need for apt-
11:28 < Minnebo> i'm trying to setup confluence btw :p
11:28 < Minnebo> https://confluence.atlassian.com/doc/database-setup-for-mysql-128747.html
11:29 < pingfloyd> the compiling isn't the time consuming part, it's figuring out what settings correspond to your hardware
11:29 < pheonix83> storage: wow thats fast. i got a 8yo laptop havent decided what distro to put on that. started building gentoo on it a while back the kernel build of the install was taking forever. canceled it out and just left it after about 3 hours.
11:29 < autopsy> storge, that is pretty good.
11:29 < pheonix83> was thinking about installing Solus on it
11:29 < pingfloyd> once you have a config though, going forward it's just figuring out new settings in newer versions of the kernel
11:30 < autopsy> storge, it takes a long time on my machine.
11:30 < storge> pingfloyd: with a localmodconfig that's only the first time, then after that, i just keep coping configs because my machine doesn't change. i do have my script run menuconfig though, so i can check if i want
11:30 < pingfloyd> storge: you don't even run make oldconfig?
11:30 < storge> but a usb hub makes that simpler too
11:30 < storge> no
11:30 < pingfloyd> of course, if you're not trying to make a minimal static kernel, it's much much easier
11:31 < pingfloyd> i.e., just set everything you can as a modules and figure it out in runtime
11:31 < storge> make clean, make mrproper, cp /boot/config-$(uname -r) .config, make menuconfig, make, make modules_install, make install, and then a final update-grub for good measure. at least that's what in the script (along with some ccache stuff to speed it up yet a bit more for subsequent compiles
11:32 < pingfloyd> I thought mrproper was only necessary in 2.4 and older
11:32 < storge> doesn't hurt i guess, been old habit
11:32 < pingfloyd> the other thing I did different was not running modules_install and make install, but instead copy the binaries manually
11:33 < storge> i do start on the first time on a new machine with a generic or allmodconfig kernel, and usb hubs help to plug everything in for localmodconfig to detect, but that's only the first time
11:33 < pingfloyd> I have a general distrust of "make install" with any project
11:34 < storge> me too but i haven't had problems with it in kernel sense. i have had oddities with debian's make variants, so i do the generic. works on any distro
11:34 < storge> at least any i've tried
11:35 < pingfloyd> yeah, if you're going to compile it, might as well go for the latest upstream vanilla kernel
11:35 < storge> yep
11:35 < pingfloyd> since you're already going to the trouble
11:35 < storge> also, i strip debug stuff since that's over my head anyway, in the make modules_install step
11:36 < pingfloyd> might as well, unless you plan on running a debugger on it
11:36 < storge> makes for less storage over time (with a new kernel every week, now i clean up /usr/src about once a season instead of once a month
11:36 < pingfloyd> can always rebuild, keeping the debug symbols, if you need to use one eventually.
11:37 < storge> yeah
11:38 < storge> hmm, i could script it to prompt me to scrub the debug symbols, but i like being able to walk away from it. it does currently wait at menuconfig, but i'm tempted to prompt me to run it right up front, before it pulls anything down. then i can truly walk away
11:38 < storge> want this kernel? yes. want menuconfig today? nope. churn churn churn
11:39 < pingfloyd> if you do it a lot, it's worth shell scripting at least
11:39 < storge> root@T520:~# chkrnl
11:39 < storge> The latest stable kernel is: 4.17.6
11:39 < storge> Do you wish to install this kernel?
11:39 < pingfloyd> I would have it prompt at the beginning of script and store values based on responses
11:39 < Minnebo> it is working
11:40 < Minnebo> started over
11:40 < storge> and then right there add "menuconfig today, master?"
11:40 < pingfloyd> then have the script check those values and take appropriate actions all the way until the very end.
11:40 < storge> yeah that's what i mean
11:40 < Minnebo> first downloaded the mysql deb, and then the server install, no mariaDB now o/
11:40 < ripdisk> hey guys, is this a help channel?
11:40 < ripdisk> or is there a different one
11:40 < storge> ripdisk: we want to help you so badly
11:41 < ripdisk> lol
11:41 < ripdisk> ok
11:41 < storge> but we'll try to help goodly
11:41 < ripdisk> soooo, i run my own little business - building custom pcs, running servers for people, some web design, pc repair
11:41 < ripdisk> all kinds of bs
11:41 < Minnebo> allthough: Locate the [mysqld]section in the file, and add or modify the following parameters. There is no such thing in my.cnf :(
11:41 < storge> good
11:41 < ripdisk> anyway, so on one of my servers, i decided i wanted to set up my own mail server
11:41 < pingfloyd> ripdisk: I've got a big raging clue
11:42 < ripdisk> so i chose to set it up with squirrelmail
11:42 < purplex88> what are network packet statistics?
11:42 < ripdisk> anyway, my squirrelmail webmail portal works fine - i can log in, my email works perfectly
11:42 < ripdisk> but recently i got a tablet as a gift, andi wanna use it for work
11:42 < pingfloyd> purplex88: statistics on a network packets aka datagrams
11:42 < ripdisk> so, i'm trying to set up my email account on my tablet
11:42 < ripdisk> (android)
11:43 < sparrowsword> anyone familiar with rootnerds vps? trying to apt-update and having a heck of a time... dont think dhcp is working properly... cant ping google.com, my only /etc/resolv.conf line is nameserver 8.8.8.8, when i try apt-update it just says Failed to fetch http://ftp.us.debian.org/.. tried with ftp://ftp doesnt work either Temporary failure resolving 'ftp.us.debian.org'
11:43 < storge> purplex88: like packets sent, received, lost, errored,
11:43 < ripdisk> and after tinkering with settings...
11:43 < ripdisk> i finally got to the error of:
11:43 < purplex88> i see.
11:43 < ripdisk> "incorrect username or password"
11:43 < purplex88> but why is it called "statistics" and not "counter"?
11:43 < ripdisk> but, i use that SAME PASSWORD on squirrelmail's webmail, and it works perfectly
11:43 < ripdisk> so the password is right
11:43 < pingfloyd> ripdisk: set it to something you can't make a mistake typing as a test
11:43 < ripdisk> that was the first thing i did
11:43 < ripdisk> lol
11:44 < pingfloyd> something simple and weak (but only temporarily)>
11:44 < storge> purplex88: if you ran a simple ping command, like say with a count of 100, when it finishes all 100 pings, it will give you some very very basic statistics, like how many sent and received
11:44 < pingfloyd> try running you email client with verbose options
11:44 < purplex88> yes you're right i used ping command once or twice before
11:44 < ripdisk> no no
11:44 < ripdisk> the email client is on my tablet
11:44 < pingfloyd> try telnetting to the smtp server to see what messages go back and forth
11:44 < ripdisk> liuke i said, i got a tablet as a gift for my birthday recently
11:44 < ripdisk> and i want to use it for work
11:45 < pingfloyd> (about the only use for telnet anymore)
11:45 < ripdisk> i want to get my email on my android tablet
11:45 < ripdisk> so i put my details in, at first i couldn't get it to connect etc
11:45 < purplex88> storge: but can you clarify the use of word "statistics" there?
11:45 < ripdisk> but i tinkered witrh it, and now i DID get it to connect
11:45 < ripdisk> only its saying wrong username and password
11:45 < pingfloyd> ripdisk: first establish you can connect with a sane email client
11:45 < ripdisk> i can log into my email via my webmail client
11:45 < pingfloyd> an android client is going to be caveat ridden
11:46 < ripdisk> and it works just fine
11:46 < autopsy> Why do I get so many fff's from /dev/urandom? https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/qkZCnITrQi3Y0yLzfPwLAg
11:46 < pingfloyd> what webmail client?
11:46 < ripdisk> i told y'all twice lol
11:46 < ripdisk> squirrelmail
11:47 < pingfloyd> also webmail may have completely different routing going on
11:47 < storge> purplex88: like any statistics, how many of how many. i sent 100, but only 99 came back, 1 was lost. the statistics are 99% success, 1% failure. that's with just two options. but with real networking there are more: errors, header errors, collisions, rejected, etc
11:47 < ripdisk> no i think it uses imap
11:47 < CoJaBo> autopsy: "This paste is password-protected." lol
11:47 < ripdisk> because like
11:47 < ripdisk> on my android mail client, i'm able to establish a connection on imap
11:47 < ripdisk> it just says bad username password
11:47 < CoJaBo> autopsy: What is the command generating that?
11:48 < autopsy> CoJaBo, https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/qkZCnITrQi3Y0yLzfPwLAg/raw
11:48 < autopsy> CoJaBo, a FILE read program I have in C.
11:48 < autopsy> CoJaBo, ./fileread /dev/urandom
11:48 < CoJaBo> I think it's a program bug
11:48 < autopsy> CoJaBo, no doubt?
11:48 < purplex88> storge: i see. so if i ask "how many packets will succeed and fail if i ping this ip?" then it is a statistical question.
11:48 < autopsy> CoJaBo, where?
11:48 < CoJaBo> autopsy: Signed ints?
11:49 < storge> purplex88: you can run certain terminal commands (if installed) to get net statistics, like: iftop, nethogs, vnstat, and others
11:49 < CoJaBo> Or bytes? It seems like higher values are the ones tht get the f's
11:49 < storge> purplex88: well it's a question until you data. with data results, you can compute statistics
11:49 < Ajven> Hello, someone knows where I can download Centos 7.3 ISO version? I need exactly this one
11:50 < autopsy> CoJaBo, buffer[i] = rc;
11:50 < autopsy> CoJaBo, int rc;
11:50 < autopsy> CoJaBo, not signed.
11:50 < storge> purplex88: you can ask how many people eat dragonflies and it sounds statistical, but until you gather data on how many people in a million eats dragonflies, its just a question.
11:50 < autopsy> Eating dragonflies!!! YAY!
11:50 < CoJaBo> autopsy: Make sure compiler warnings are on and that there are none. also, pastebin the source
11:51 < storge> (i think that statistic would be close to 0%, dragonflies are damn acrobats and hard to bite in midair)
11:51 < purplex88> storge: statistics = a number whos result will depend on population or survey, but in this case "population" is different
11:51 < dive> Has anyone used the siag suite of office tools, and know how to set the toolbars as readable?
11:51 < dive> I can make the fonts larger, but the widgets don't resize properly.
11:52 < purplex88> in this case, it seems a number whos result will depend on circumstances or network conditions
11:52 < autopsy> CoJaBo, https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/hW8-~tcFuvM0VE00ldzmaQ/raw
11:52 < storge> purplex88: yeah that seems a sensible way to put it. and keep in mind, there are different types of network packets. tcp is not udp, for a quick example. so you can have success, failure, lost, errors in both tcp and udp packets, so that's two sets of data--your work just doubled.
11:52 < dive> Even if I start it in Xephyr, it seems to ignore dpi, and everything is still unreasdable.
11:53 < purplex88> storge: ping statistics are udp?
11:53 < storge> purplex88: now you're talking. is it hardline? optical? is wifi involved? is it over cdma or some other cellular network? every new variable expands the data set, depending on what you're trying to statistically model
11:54 < autopsy> CoJaBo, https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/rG2lK9yPA8sDd-ZGmrqQlw/raw
11:54 < BeforeClick> does anyone know a webconsole written in php that would allow to use use sudo?
11:54 < autopsy> BeforeClick, what is a web console?
11:55 < storge> purplex88: no ping is icmp, not udp
11:56 < storge> purplex88: there are different ip protocols. icmp is one, tcp another, and udp yet another
11:56 < purplex88> 'statistical model' is a nice word
11:56 < purplex88> or two words
11:57 < storge> purplex88: icmp is protocol 1, tcp is 6, udp is 17. there are many
11:57 < storge> https://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers/protocol-numbers.xhtml
11:57 < CoJaBo> autopsy: I think you want %02x  for your format
11:57 < autopsy> CoJaBo, ok I'll try that.
11:58 < autopsy> CoJaBo, anything else you can spot?
11:58 < CoJaBo> autopsy: That pads it to 2 characters. Tho I'm not immediately sure why it's also padding some of them with leading f's tho
11:58 < CoJaBo> You should fix the compiler warnings too, but those are unrelated to the f's
11:58 < longxia> BeforeClick: i didn't know a web console would disallow you to use anything. Isn't it just a what is says it is: a console? Being allowed to use sudo is something i would expect the operating system to control (group, permissions, etc.).
11:59 < purplex88> storge: so can I say that all the network statistics shown in my router are trying to statistically model activity of my network?
12:00 < BeforeClick> longxia: I get a "sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified"
12:01 < storge> purplex88: that's clunky. it's say it's gathering data. it's logging traffic and gathering data the whole time. whether you use that data--which is just a pile of numbers--to make a report or predict that future, now you're talking statistics. the router might have some simple statistical calculations it's showing you, but the 'modeling' part comes in making decisions or guesses of the future, based on a
12:01 < storge> given pile of number data collected.
12:01 < autopsy> CoJaBo, https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/nWvO3mmchcEempR17uD8LA/raw
12:01 < autopsy> CoJaBo, I fixed the warnings.
12:02 < autopsy> CoJaBo, cause char **argv[] is supposed to be char *argv[]
12:02 < purplex88> storge: sounds good
12:02 < longxia> BeforeClick: i have no experience with that but you might want to look at the sudo -A option in the man page
12:03 < CoJaBo> autopsy: I'm guessing it's not liking that you're passing a char to %x? Maybe try casting them each to ints (also, a loop would be helpful there lol)
12:04 < purplex88> usually i create a model to understand a concept, but as you said in case of statistics the model will be created to be used for predictive analysis.
12:04 < autopsy> CoJaBo, yeah I don't know how to do all of that could you help?
12:04 < storge> purplex88: this is why statisticians talk about not having sufficient data to be statistically compelling, because making a guess based on five data points is quite a leap, but making a guess based on five million data points is very different. five billion much more so.
12:05 < CoJaBo> autopsy: IIRC,  (int)buffer[0]
12:05 < autopsy> CoJaBo, ok.
12:05 < CoJaBo> autopsy: Tho, I thought it either did that for you or warned of the type incompatibility, so something else is probably wrong somewhere
12:05 < storge> purplex88: i bet we could count the users in this channel for a week and not see much change. but count them every hour for a year, and we'd see time of day swings and more people online in the winter, less in the summer, etc etc etc etc
12:06 < purplex88> that data we collected, will be a model?
12:06 < purplex88> when i think of "model" a figure made of clay comes in my mind
12:06 < autopsy> CoJaBo, that fixed it.
12:07 < autopsy> CoJaBo, that was a good thing casting to int first.
12:07 < baobabfruit> no you create a model with the data you collected
12:07 < storge> the data we collect is a pile of numbers until we start organzing and arranging it. once we start looking for patterns, we're working on a model. once we're guessing the future, our guesses are built on the model
12:07 < baobabfruit> for which we have very cool tools like anova's
12:07 < purplex88> arrange data into tables = model?
12:08 < autopsy> CoJaBo, https://paste.fedoraproject.org/paste/v2Rbl5L81if401jbEqLRVw/raw
12:08 < autopsy> CoJaBo, using int buffer[100];
12:08 < baobabfruit> to show us if there are statistically significant differences between parts of data, so that we can then find out if we should look into it in the first place
12:08 < CoJaBo> autopsy: char would be more correct there, since you're storing a string of bytes
12:09 < storge> the reason so many companies, websites, devices are collecting data today--all kinds of numbers--is because they hope to do something with it in the future. most of the data is just being recorded and stored. no models. but when they start to look at it and see how they can monetize it or predict what shirt we want to buy, they're modelling.
12:09 < CoJaBo> autopsy: Is some warning turned off tho? I could swear printf warned you if a type was wrong..
12:09 < CoJaBo> autopsy: My C is a bit rusty, so maybe ask the C channel :P
12:09 < baobabfruit> its like the wallmart guy
12:09 < storge> until the analysis, it's just a pile of numbers.
12:09 < baobabfruit> this guy goes in with his daughter and wallmart stores everything they buy over a longer period of time
12:10 < baobabfruit> all of the sudden this guy gets a comercial folder at home from wallmart about diapers, baby milk etc
12:10 < purplex88> storge: how can we use numbers to create a model? a model of numbers? does it have a shape?
12:10 < autopsy> CoJaBo, ok no problem. It is a sequence of bytes.
12:10 < baobabfruit> he gets angry goes to wallmart, and they say well our system determined your daughter might be pregnant
12:10 < baobabfruit> and she was
12:10 < autopsy> CoJaBo, char int who cares. It doesn't do it anymore.
12:10 < CoJaBo> lol
12:10 < baobabfruit> it can be anything really, numbers, strings, the lot
12:11 < autopsy> ints
12:11 < baobabfruit> usually a combination
12:11 < autopsy> grapes
12:11 < autopsy> bears
12:11 < CoJaBo> autopsy: The point is to learn things correctly tho :P
12:11 < storge> right now there is a vast and growing number of all kinds of data points. everything from how long you press a key to how fast your butt swings a cell phone sensor around when you walk. it's all being stored. just sitting there, a pile of numbers. but then they start to look at it, look for patterns, predict the future---now they're modelling
12:11 < purplex88> i am thinking of data flow diagrams and uml models
12:11 < autopsy> CoJaBo, yeah I will ask the C channel.
12:11 < baobabfruit> so for university we did this with an elephant, we wanted to see how noise affected her what we colected was
12:12 < baobabfruit> behavior, location, decibels outside, inside her enclosure, the amount of people, the amount of cars, time of day, temprature
12:12 < storge> i gotta go, ya'll have a good day. purplex88 i'm sure there's a lot out there to read on network packet statistics. good luck.
12:12 < purplex88> storge: thx you're so good, have a nice day
12:13 < baobabfruit> in order to actually see if one thing affects the other you need A LOT of data on a LOT of things, many environmentals to. Just to make sure you arent thinking oh this is the affecting object when in reality it was something else
12:13 < Neobenedict> erm
12:14 < Neobenedict> my uni network has a ssh environment for tunnelling, but I can connect to the ssh directly and see all the running processes, people's home directories (but they are permissioned off), etc... is that normal for a large network? i'd expect you to only be able to see your own files/processes
12:15 < baobabfruit> probably a mistake in infrastructure
12:15 < baobabfruit> try killing someone's process see what happens
12:15 < Neobenedict> i'd rather not
12:15 < baobabfruit> time to go visit the school's sysadmins
12:16 < baobabfruit> explain to them what happened so they can fix it
12:16 < Neobenedict> i mean, is that normal/safe for a corporate network?
12:16 < Neobenedict> i'd imagine permissions are set so you can't view others' files
12:20 < myvar> im thinking of moving over to void linux, any thoughts on this ?
12:20 < ananke> Neobenedict: it's normal for any unix system
12:20 < ananke> myvar: without any context that's a silly question
12:21 < myvar> i use arch atm, my main problem is its a little unstable at times
12:21 < baobabfruit> no neobenedict it is not normal
12:21 < ananke> baobabfruit: it is normal
12:21 < baobabfruit> ananke its normal in a hey this is a fresh install setting
12:21 < baobabfruit> not in a this is a university network setting
12:22 < baobabfruit> he could go around killing lab processes and setting them back ages.
12:22 < ananke> baobabfruit: being fresh or not is irrelevant. that's how typical linux or bsd system behaves
12:22 < baobabfruit> thats not what he asked
12:22 < ananke> baobabfruit: he said he can _see_ processes, not be able to kill them.
12:22 < baobabfruit> what he asked is if its normal and safe for a corporate network
12:22 < Neobenedict> keep in mind thousands of people could ssh into this
12:22 < baobabfruit> which its not
12:22 < Neobenedict> and poke around
12:22 < ananke> baobabfruit: you clearly didn't read what he said
12:22 < Neobenedict> and maybe find unprotected config files
12:23 < ananke> Neobenedict: so go find said unprotected config files. what you see is very normal
12:23 < baobabfruit> literally : "<Neobenedict> i mean, is that normal/safe for a corporate network?"
12:23 < Neobenedict> [11:23:11] <ananke> Neobenedict: so go find said unprotected config files. what you see is very normal
12:23 < ananke> this has nothing to do with a 'network', but a linux host
12:23 < Neobenedict> that might be very illegal
12:23 < baobabfruit> do you think that's safe and normal for a corporate network ananke ?
12:23 < ananke> baobabfruit: it's not a corporate network
12:24 < Neobenedict> i'd expect if the only purpose of this is a gateway / ssh, you don't need a shell?
12:24 < baobabfruit> ofc it does, he can SSH in over the network, and see other people's stuff running its clearly a network AND host issue
12:24 < Neobenedict> so the server should just not give you a shell
12:24 < ananke> baobabfruit: you seem to not understand what 'corporate' even means
12:24 < baobabfruit> you dont seem to grasp safe
12:24 < Neobenedict> think about how stupid people are with university usernames and passwords
12:25 < Neobenedict> think about how many .edu emails get compromised and sold on bitcointalk
12:25 < ananke> baobabfruit: I bet you wouldn't be able to come up with any reasons why it's unsafe
12:25 < Neobenedict> with any of those .edu emails you could log into this and poke around
12:25 < baobabfruit> i work for a big corporation as a sysadmin, on a linux only environment so eh
12:25 < ananke> Neobenedict: if it's a shell server, then it gives you a shell.
12:25 < Neobenedict> it's only purpose is sftp a mounted home directory
12:25 < ananke> baobabfruit: yet you are confused about a university being a 'corporation'
12:25 < Neobenedict> or ssh into a server on the internal network
12:26 < Neobenedict> do you need a shell for that?
12:26 < baobabfruit> are you sure ? because he could go around trying to kill stuff, try to change cd to others homes
12:26 < baobabfruit> try to simply throw away other peoples stuff
12:26 < Neobenedict> i'm asking if it's worth sending an email about
12:26 < Neobenedict> i'm not gonna try poking
12:26 < baobabfruit> He literally asked if its normal/safe for a CORPORATION
12:26 < ananke> baobabfruit: your credentials as a sysadmin should be taken away then, if you think that as a regular user you can kill other users' processes
12:26 < baobabfruit> which is what i answered, when did i say it was the same thing
12:26 < baobabfruit> and neither did i say he CAN, i said he could TRY
12:27 < Neobenedict> i mean, why not chroot
12:27 < Neobenedict> let's see if authorized_keys even works
12:27 < ananke> Neobenedict: chroot doesn't provide any significant security
12:27 < ananke> Neobenedict: and again, what you currently see is normal for any shared unix system
12:28 < Neobenedict> k cool
12:28 < baobabfruit> really ? its normal to be able to log in over ssh, and see everyone's process running
12:28 < baobabfruit> i dont know what corporation you work for
12:28 < ananke> baobabfruit: yes. it's normal. you clearly have never used linux
12:28 < baobabfruit> but leaving open ssh for the world to access doesnt seem to a good idea to me
12:28 < ananke> the sheer purpose of that box is to provide ssh access
12:29 < autopsy> Ok my VirtualBox is working now it lets me load a 64 bit guest.
12:29 < baobabfruit> again, so sad that you need to attack someone
12:29 < baobabfruit> such a compelling argument ><
12:29 < baobabfruit> "you clearly never used linux" as if you know the last thing about me
12:29 < Neobenedict> lol ssh keys work
12:29 < ananke> baobabfruit: you're the one who claims experience, yet you keep making statements that indicate otherwise
12:30 < ananke> Neobenedict: why wouldn't they?
12:30 < Neobenedict> because the home directory is mounted on probably not a linux machine idk
12:30 < ananke> Neobenedict: now you're just guessing
12:31 < Neobenedict> yeah. well it's a bit weird this, but if you guys say it's normal
12:32 < ananke> Neobenedict: go pick any random mainstream linux distribution and install it. enable ssh. login, and you'll see exactly the same thing
12:32 < ananke> that's how unix/unix-like systems have been behaving for many decades
12:32 < Neobenedict> okay. now to figure out how to tunnel three ssh connections through each other
12:32 < ananke> Neobenedict: just keep tunneling.
12:32 < Neobenedict> :D
12:33 < djph> ssh user@host1 ... ssh user@host2 ... ssh user@host3 ?
12:33 < ananke> Neobenedict: nothing special about it. also, if your tunnel systems have fairly recent openssh, then you should look at the proxyjump option
12:35 < ananke> Neobenedict: you could specify multiple jump points that way
12:47 < oerheks> Guido van Rossum , mister Python, stops .. https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-July/005664.html  >  he is on *the* list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_for_life -- and
12:55 < BluesKaj> Hiyas all
13:06 < poopBot> hi
13:08 < autopsy> Hi poopBot. Did you crap today?
13:10 < poopBot> not yet will probbaly later
13:10 < autopsy> Oh poopBot don't feel good right now?
13:11 < autopsy> .//poop
13:11 < poopBot> anyone know is there some mass wey to set default app for all images , i feel greate why?
13:11 < autopsy> poopBot use right click open with other application.
13:12 < autopsy> poopBot just wondering.
13:12 < poopBot> ye but that whay i need to do it for evry diferent img type
13:12 < autopsy> poopBot there's only jpg png svg tiff and riff.
13:13 < autopsy> poopBot you could write a bash script to do it.
13:16 < poopBot> i know just was asking is there some lazy way :)
13:16 < autopsy> for files in */; do file $files | grep jpg && jpg=True; if [[ jpg == True ]]; then mirage $files; done; done
13:16 < autopsy> Do the same for png svg and whatever else you have.
13:16 < minuteman> hello
13:17 < autopsy> for files in */; do file $files | grep -i png && png=True; if [[ png == True ]]; then mirage $files; done; done
13:17 < autopsy> minuteman, hello to you there.
13:17 < minuteman> Could someone help me here? I have MSI laptop running ParrotOS 4.1 now. It looks like GPU is malfunctioning
13:18 < autopsy> minuteman, like what is malfunctioning?
13:18 < autopsy> minuteman, why don't you run Fedora?
13:18 < poopBot> so mirage sets default file open?
13:18 < minuteman> It started after spectre security update for BIOS
13:18 < autopsy> poopBot no mirage is an application to open image files.
13:18 < minuteman> Laptop was running Win10 at that point
13:19 < autopsy> minuteman, uh oh. What is happennding.?
13:19 < jim> so the gpu not working is a change? (that is, it has worked under this same OS?)
13:20 < minuteman> Stopped booting after BIOS update. If I boot linux without nvidia drivers everything works fine. However, is I try to access GPU in any way, i will get NVI Watchdog error
13:20 < minuteman> HARD LOCKUP on cpu
13:20 < djph> reinstall the kernel modules?
13:21 < djph> *GPU Kernel modules
13:21 < minuteman> Alright, how do I do that?
13:22 < autopsy> minuteman, how did you install them?
13:23 < djph> minuteman: it'll be nvidia-3xx (whatever the current driver is)
13:24 < minuteman> I have tried downloading latest nvidia driver from their website, but laptop freezes if I run the installer
13:24 < minuteman> right now im on intel graphics
13:25 < minuteman> If anything tries to access nvidia gpu, i will get NVI watchdog error
13:25 < djph> laptop?
13:25 < autopsy> minuteman, you're sure it's after the spectre update to the microcode?
13:25 < BluesKaj> ahh, Optimus ...that can be a pita
13:27 < minuteman> sorry, its "NMI watchdog: Watchdog detected hard LOCKUP on CPU" to be exact
13:27 < minuteman> I'm not sure if it happened after microcode update
13:28 < minuteman> Because if so, CPU would be failing and I wouldn't be able to do anything at all
13:28 < minuteman> Educated guess is something to do with nvidia GPU
13:29 < minuteman> Or not
13:29 < minuteman> lol
13:30 < minuteman> It started to happen after microcode update though
13:35 < autopsy> minuteman, try booting with kernel parameters ioapic=off
13:36 < autopsy> minuteman, and lapic=off
13:36 < minuteman> I have never messed with kernel params... what file should I edit?
13:37 < minuteman> some resources tell to add clocksource=tsc
13:38 < minuteman> just need to know where to add it
13:39 < autopsy> minuteman, when the computer boots you get a menu with a list of kernels to boot. To edit the options you press 'e' and add it to the vmlinuz line in the config. Then boot it with ctrl-X
13:40 < autopsy> clocksource=tsc might help.
13:40 < minuteman> Ok, thanks!
13:40 < minuteman> I will try it now
13:40 < minuteman> hopefully will get back here hahah
13:42 < streuner> hello! can anyone help me with spamassassin?
13:42 < streuner> How can I get rid of error "archive-iterator: no access to /home/mailboxes/maildir/atypical/cur: Permission denied at /usr/share/perl5/Mail/SpamAssassin/ArchiveIterator.pm line 591."?
13:43 < cart_man> When I try to mount a network drive I get this error -> Error(16) resource busy. The file that I am using as my mount point is not busy at all but I did see that its privileges are set to -> drwxrwxrwx+
13:43 < cart_man> Might that have something to do with "Busy resource"
13:43 < cart_man> error?
13:44 < autopsy> cart_man, what is the network address for the drive you are mounting?
13:44 < cart_man> just an IP
13:44 < cart_man> autopsy Soo ... //192.168.12.12/MntPoint
13:44 < autopsy> You need an IP address and a mountpoint.
13:44 < cart_man> autopsy Soo ... //192.168.12.12/MntPoint /myMountPoint
13:44 < autopsy> cart_man, using mount -t cifs ?
13:44 < cart_man> autopsy Yes it works if I change my mount pint
13:45 < cart_man> autopsy Yes
13:45 < cart_man> Ill make en example
13:45 < autopsy> cart_man, to what ?
13:45 < cart_man> autopsy "sudo mount -t cifs -o username=user,password=pass,rw //192.168.12.12/NetworkFile /myMntPoint
13:46 < autopsy> cart_man, try: lsof /myMntPoint
13:47 < autopsy> cart_man, and: fuser /myMntPoint
13:47 < autopsy> cart_man, maybe they are mounted already?
13:47 < cart_man> autopsy No I restart everytime I try and mount
13:48 < cart_man> autopsy Ok so lsof brings back WARNING: cant stat()
13:48 < autopsy> cart_man, can you grep the lsof output?
13:48 < autopsy> cart_man, grep for /myMntPoint
13:49 < cart_man> autopsy Seems like I cant do much with lsof ... just keeps on saying WARNING: can`t stat()
13:50 < cart_man> I run lsof | grep "/myMntPoint"
13:50 < autopsy> cart_man, ok nevermind then. If /myMntPoint Yes.
13:50 < autopsy> lsof | grep myMntPoint
13:50 < autopsy> See if that brings up anything.
13:50 < cart_man> onpe
13:51 < autopsy> cart_man, how about fuser?
13:51 < autopsy> cart_man, fuser /myMntPoint
13:51 < cart_man> no output
13:52 < autopsy> cart_man, ok just checking.
13:53 < autopsy> cart_man, so it says Resource Busy? Are you forcing a specific NFS protocol with it like mount -t cifs -o username=user,password=pass,vers=4,rw
13:53 < autopsy> For version 4.
13:53 < autopsy> Try specifying the version. So it doesn't try version 3.
13:53 < cart_man> no not at all
13:53 < section1> smb4 ?
13:53 < cart_man> just as straight as I can
13:54 < section1> thats crazy
13:54 < cart_man> I literally rol the line I stated up top
13:54 < cart_man> autopsy Ok
13:54 < section1> cart_man, do you have smbclient ?
13:54 < autopsy> Yeah SMB4.
13:55 < cart_man> section1 Yes its a smbclient actually
13:55 < section1> autopsy, i think that vers don't exist. the max. is 3.x
13:55 < section1> cart_man, the command smbclient
13:55 < section1> its report the error best than mount.
13:56 < autopsy> section1, I was confusing SMB for NFS version 4.
13:56 < section1> yeah :D
13:56 < autopsy> Use smbclient.
14:03 < section1> cart_man, can you post the output of lsattr /mountpoint (where you are trying to mount)  and wich distro is that ?
14:10 < ispp> Hello, I have a question about IOWait processes, anyone here who can help me?
14:11 < ananke> ispp: best bet is to simply get to the point
14:13 < ispp> OK, so I have a machine where the IOWait in around 30% and I have another similar where the IOWait is 0.8% which is the normal status, I want to get to route cause of what is causing this, I executed S.M.A.R.T check in all the disks with success and nothing, any idea about what to check next?
14:14 < autopsy> ispp what programs are in IOwait?
14:14 < autopsy> section1, he is using username=user,password=pass,rw to mount it.
14:15 < ispp> autopsy this maybe can help https://pastebin.com/51FfuJxk
14:15 < ispp> Is qemu-kvm
14:16 < ispp> Is an hypervisor so Im doubting about noisy neighbours consuming a lot
14:16 < autopsy> ispp, try running sync as root.
14:16 < autopsy> sync
14:17 < autopsy> ispp, try also: hdparm -Tt /dev/sda
14:17 < autopsy> ispp, hdparm is a good tool for changing drive state.
14:17 < autopsy> ispp, see : man hdparm
14:18 < ananke> ispp: for starters, check iotop on both systems. see if they are seeing similar amount of iops or bandwidth
14:18 < ananke> this may very likely be expected, if some of your vms are actually creating the I/O traffic
14:19 < ananke> I wouldn't bother doing hdparm nor sync. they won't tell you what's causing this
14:19 < ispp> Is it possible to check the amount of cops running? There are thousands
14:19 < autopsy> Yeah but it would flush some of his buffers tho. lol.
14:20 < ananke> ispp: nmon for example
14:20 < ananke> autopsy: what would flushing buffers do to aid this problem?
14:20 < ispp> Is it possible to check the amount of cops running? There are thousands
14:20 < autopsy> ananke, I don't know free up some memory?
14:21 < ananke> autopsy: that would have no impact on what he's experiencing now
14:21 < autopsy> Ok.
14:21 < ananke> ispp: cops being what?
14:22 < ispp> iops sorry
14:22 < ananke> ispp: iostat for example
14:23 < ispp> Quite high https://pastebin.com/VFYnNhXs
14:24 < ananke> ispp: well then. that would explain the high wait
14:24 < ananke> your storage is simply busy
14:24 < ispp> ok, perfect  :)
14:24 < ispp> Thank you very much autopsy ananke
14:24 < ananke> 239 transactions per second is beyond what a single drive can do
14:25 < section1> that have an iowait of 2 not 30
14:26 < ananke> section1: his earlier post had io wait around 30
14:26 < section1> ah
14:26 < ananke> '%Cpu(s): 26.5 us,  4.2 sy,  0.0 ni, 41.1 id, 28.1 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.1 si,  0.0 st
14:27 < DaemonBSD> vsem privet!
14:27 < DaemonBSD> hello all!)))
14:27 < section1> :)
14:28 < ispp> Yes, when I took the sreanshot decreased a lot, but just during that second
14:28 < section1> yeah sure a vm doing heavy i/o
14:29 < section1> the load its 85 lol
14:30 < DaemonBSD> QUIT
14:30 < DaemonBSD> exit
14:30 < DaemonBSD> qui
14:31 < ispp> Yep :) a proper load, right? hehe
15:00 < allure> guys, how to I route a specific IP though a different interface than everyone else on Linux?
15:00 < allure> everyone else goes through eth0 and eth1, this specific IP needs to be routed through eth2, but only this IP
15:03 < Pentode> see iptables?
15:04 < Pentode> i can't walk you through it since I don't know iptables by heart but it's not difficult and there are probably countless articles on the web
15:05 < allure> Pentode: there should be an ip route cmd for it
15:08 < Pentode> https://www.linode.com/docs/security/firewalls/control-network-traffic-with-iptables/
15:08 < autopsy> allure, iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -o eth2 -j ACCEPT and back again: iptables -A INPUT -i eth2 -o eth0 -j ACCEPT
15:08 < Pentode> you could use ip route also, but route is old.
15:09 < allure> hmmm okay
15:09 < allure> thanks Pentode and autopsy
15:09 < allure> will try that :-)
15:09 < Pentode> read that article it pretty much covers it all
15:09 < allure> I am :-) thanks!
15:09 < autopsy> allure, -s and -d for source and destination IP addresses.
15:09 < allure> autopsy: yup. Thanks man! :-)
15:09 < autopsy> allure, but you should get by with just the interface.
15:10 < section1> iptables don't  route packages
15:12 < autopsy> iptables ipmangles.
15:14 < amosbird> Hi, what's the usage of the lowest part of memory https://la.wentropy.com/cKi3.png
15:15 < section1> no he need ip route and tables.
15:15 < section1> routing tables.
15:16 < section1> the iptrables for permit traffic..o deny...etc.
15:16 < ayecee> amosbird: it's left unmapped in order to catch null pointer exceptions
15:16 < allure> autopsy: cant use -o with INPUT
15:16 < allure> hehe
15:17 < amosbird> ayecee: hmm, why does it left 4194304.0B
15:18 < autopsy> allure, -A FORWARD
15:18 < autopsy> allure, sorry about that.
15:19 < ayecee> amosbird: probably something to do with page size
15:20 < jim> if input were outputted, would only outputs have inputs?
15:21 < pingfloyd> allure: ip route add <specific IP> via <router ip> dev eth2
15:22 < TRS-80> anyone aware of a minimal Debian live CD without any DE?
15:22 < TRS-80> I see there is a mini.iso under netboot, but not sure if that's an installer or a live CD
15:22 < ffejj> i need a bigger tty font than terminus, what do you suggest?
15:23 < TRS-80> ffejj: glasses? XD
15:23 < section1> haha
15:23 < ffejj> lol
15:24 < pingfloyd> deja vu sans mono
15:24 < TRS-80> ffejj: all jokes aside, Terminus is pretty big. And it does have some larger sizes. In fact I had to switch back to default variable width font for my headings in Orgmode because Terminus was too wide.
15:24 < autopsy> Try xterm.
15:24 < ffejj> i'm in a tty.
15:24 < TRS-80> after looking into it more, I realized that what pingfloyd said is the default for regular text but not headings
15:24 < jhodrien> Change the fbmode ?
15:24 < ffejj> my resolution in teh tty is probably too big but i don't know how to change that.
15:24 < azarus> "trapped in a tty" -- the new psychothriller arriving in 2019
15:25 < autopsy> Oh noes!
15:25 < ayecee> "i want to scream but i have no tty"
15:25 < ffejj> jhodrien: how do i change that?
15:25  * ffejj scream
15:25 < TRS-80> ffejj: I think that is more your issue. Terminus is pretty big and has larger sizes that work well.
15:26 < TRS-80> I think jhodrien might have you on the right track
15:26  * TRS-80 is currently enjoying Terminus in WeeChat in Xterm XD
15:26 < ffejj> me terminus weechat tty
15:27  * ffejj terminus weechat tty
15:27 < autopsy> BitchX for the win.
15:27 < jhodrien> kernel arg vga=ask and then have a tinker until you find one you like?
15:27 < azarus> terminus irssi st
15:27 < jhodrien> Possibly fun with fbset ?
15:27 < ffejj> i wanted to use that old-ass bios font
15:28 < jhodrien> Not using a text console would be my normal advice.
15:28 < allure> autopsy: sure, no worries :)
15:28 < allure> pingfloyd: thank you
15:28  * TRS-80 is imagining the clicking, beeping, and green screen like in Fallout
15:28 < pingfloyd> allure: you're welcome
15:29 < autopsy> allure, did you see my message about -A FORWARD?
15:29 < ffejj> jhodrien: thanks.  i'm just using it out of curiosity.
15:29 < jhodrien> I would be curious somewhere else ;)
15:30 < ffejj> .. why?
15:30 < jhodrien> There's not a lot to be curious about with a text vt.
15:30 < autopsy> Text VT! WooHoo!
15:30 < autopsy> xterm is the bomb.
15:31 < TRS-80> Incidentally, came across this neat article called 'The TTY Demystified" http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/tty/ Gives some good history and explanations of various SIGTERM, etc. and how they interact from perspective of (I think) a kernel programmer? It was very illuminating for me, but I'm still kinda noob. Anyway, thought I'd share it with the channel (again). :)
15:31 < Pentode> neat
15:31 < Pentode> i'll check that out, thanks
15:32 < Pentode> i dont know much about the earlier TTY's other than they were serial and used a single cylinoid in a brilliant manner.
15:33 < allure> autopsy: yes, sorry :-)
15:33 < autopsy> allure, ok.
15:33 < allure> for some reason, it still does not work
15:33 < pingfloyd> really all the tty is good for is you're on an ancient system, in an emergency/recovery situation, or X took a big shit.
15:33 < allure> I guess I have to learn 'advanced' and modern routing on linux
15:33 < autopsy> allure, you got to set net.ipv4.forward = 1 in /proc/
15:34 < TRS-80> I knew some of the history but this really explains lots of things like why they are called TTY (which I knew) and helped really explain the difference between TTY, console, shell, etc. Some of which I had kind of sussed out but this made it all really clear.
15:34 < allure> autopsy: yep, that's already in plae
15:34 < allure> place
15:34 < allure> I am using this gateway to talk to you right now
15:34 < allure> hehe
15:34 < autopsy> Ok.
15:34 < autopsy> allure, ping doesn't work?
15:34 < autopsy> allure, what is not working?
15:34 < allure> nope... I am pinging 8.8.8.8 and it won't work if I add the route
15:35 < allure> I am adding the route as such: route add -host 172.27.225.96 gw 192.168.100.1 dev eth2
15:35 < allure> as soon as I hit enter, it stops pinging 8.8.8.8 :-)
15:35 < Psi-Jack> First of all, ip route, not route. net-utils is long since broken and obsoleted by iproute2 tools.
15:35 < ffejj> well damn it, how can i get a list of supported video modes?
15:36 < autopsy> 80x25
15:36 < allure> Psi-Jack: with the same exact arguments?
15:36 < ffejj> lol, 80x25
15:36 < Psi-Jack> Nope.
15:36 < TRS-80> ffejj: just remember how jhodrien began this conversaion ;) lol
15:36 < Psi-Jack> https://www.cheatography.com/tme520/cheat-sheets/iproute2/
15:37 < allure> Thanks Psi-Jack
15:37 < allure> I will check it out now
15:37 < Psi-Jack> You can also use ip route to help show you what it's doing. :)
15:38 < allure> thank you
15:38 < allure> :)
15:38 < allure> Psi-Jack: unfortunately, it still won't work with ip route add 172.27.225.96/32 via 192.168.100.1 dev eth2
15:39 < section1> allure, that command route by destination ip
15:39 < allure> hmm
15:40 < jim> allure, there are a lot of comparisons you can find on the web between things like route and ip route
15:40 < allure> ok, I will search through those
15:40 < allure> thank you, jim and section1
15:40 < jim> I shouild p[robably read one of em
15:40 < Psi-Jack> And why are you routing 172.27.225.96 via 192.168.100.1 anyway? That... Doesn't work.
15:40 < allure> really?
15:41 < Psi-Jack> That's two completely different subnets, so yes, really.
15:41 < allure> that is a windows machine (in the 172.27.225.0 network) and 192.168.100.1 is a modem
15:41 < section1> depends..
15:41 < allure> I want that windows machine to have that modem as it's gateway
15:42 < section1> check the command that pingfloyd give you
15:44 < Psi-Jack> allure: Multiple ISP modems or something?
15:44 < allure> Psi-Jack: exactly
15:44 < section1> you need tables
15:45 < Psi-Jack> Is the $other modem acting as bridge or gateway?
15:45 < allure> section1: tried that command just now again, same result. you mean different routing tables?
15:45 < allure> Psi-Jack: gateway
15:45 < section1> yes routing tables allure
15:45 < allure> section1: ok, thank you. I will research that
15:46 < Psi-Jack> So $other modem is doing NAT?
15:46 < allure> Psi-Jack: yes
15:46 < section1> allure, i  found this https://wiki.openvz.org/Source_based_routing
15:47 < Psi-Jack> Routing rules, you mean, section1 . ;)
15:47 < allure> section1: thank you. I was reading another one, but this one seems more complete :-)
15:47 < section1> ok rules with tables :D
15:47 < Psi-Jack> hehe
15:47 < Psi-Jack> Bit more complex, but yep. Can be done.
15:48 < ffejj> i was not able to successfully change the resolution, so i give up:)
15:48  * ffejj a failure just like dad says
15:54 < takeme> can i use tmux on vnc server instead of ssh?
15:55 < Dominian> what?
15:55 < joescript> hey has anyone install a linux distro on macbook 2017? the reason I ask is because I got one for extremaly cheap
15:56 < Pentode> i've installed linux on my older macbooks. nothing that modern, though.
15:56 < takeme> what is price? joescript ?
15:56 < joescript> well mostly a family member didnt want it (so a gift)
15:56 < Dominian> takeme: what?
15:56 < Pentode> i didn't have to do anything special. i used the same fedora ISO that i use for my workstation.
15:56 < takeme> Dominian: price
15:56 < takeme> ?
15:56 < Dominian> joescript: they are all intel-based anyway
15:56 < Dominian> takeme: wtf are you talking about?
15:56 < joescript> well it has the full keyboard no touch bar
15:57 < takeme> Dominian: because I got one for extremaly cheap
15:57 < takeme> :(
15:57 < joescript> which is cool, hate the touch bar crap
15:57 < Dominian> takeme: I don't understand your original question: can i use tmux on vnc server instead of ssh
15:57 < lupine>  It will run Linux, but you could also flog it and get a new real laptop
15:57 < Dominian> joescript: yeah it's annoying
15:58 < joescript> i touch it and feels real to me
15:58 < takeme> Dominian: yeah i want to have session then i quit vnc client
15:58 < joescript> not sure what do you mean real laptop
16:00 < Pentode> really hate it when that happens
16:01 < amosbird> hmm, how does /proc/sys/kernel/randomize_va_space work ?
16:01 < amosbird> does it randomize all segments ?
16:03 < joescript> @amosbird why you ask, are trying to temporarily disable ASLR?
16:04 < amosbird> ?
16:05 < Pentode> address space layout randomization, amosbird.
16:05 < joescript> sorry should had been more clear
16:05 < Pentode> thats what the variable is for
16:05 < amosbird> Pentode: yeah, I'd like to know how it actually randomize
16:06 < Pentode> look at the source and see, or see if you can find something on the webs
16:07 < Pentode> https://linux-audit.com/linux-aslr-and-kernelrandomize_va_space-setting/
16:07 < Pentode> not sure how much detail there is in that article
16:07 < Pentode> but its a start
16:08 < Pentode> if you _really_ want to know the nitty gritty you'll have to either look at the source or talk to a kernel developer or something
16:08 < amosbird> ok, thanks
16:08 < joescript> yea I believe Linux uses mmap and stack for it
16:09 < joescript> I think its use conservative randomization
16:18 < FightingFalcon> is it safe to remove all mariadb-bin log files?
16:18 < autopsy> If you don't want to read them I guess.
16:19 < Pentode> they will just be created by the service again when it wants to log something
16:22 < autopsy> Yeah.
16:22 < autopsy> True there.
16:25 < DLange> FightingFalcon: https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.0/en/purge-binary-logs.html
16:43 < strixdio> having trouble with remmina. can connect to a server through rdesktop just fine, but remmina keeps cycling, log says, "network disconnection detected, initiating reconnection attempt" any thoughts?
16:48 < n-iCe> hi
17:11 < WhiteDevil> is it okay to lick a girl on her cheek without telling her ?
17:11 < WhiteDevil> can you go to jail for that ?
17:12 < oerheks> Silly, you don't go to jail for that .. wait, did you vote democrats?
17:12 < SuperSeriousCat> Dont feed the troll
17:13 < adrian_1908> ^
17:13 < WhiteDevil> i am just making a dead room alive
17:13 < WhiteDevil> i gotta prepare for my rhcsa
17:13 < WhiteDevil> i heard the exam is like 400 dollars
17:13 < WhiteDevil> so gotta spend way to much time where i am completely sure I am ready to take it
17:14 < WhiteDevil> cant afford to spend 800 bucks or maybe more depending on how many attempts i do
17:14 < takeme> can i use tmux in vnc?
17:14 < Psi-Jack> takeme: Why would you not?
17:14 < takeme> Psi-Jack: what you mean?
17:15 < Psi-Jack> Common Sense v1.0
17:15 < SuperSeriousCat> Im on v4.3. Maybe thats why Im so smart
17:15  * jim has his army of ducks winged (err armed) and ready...
17:16 < WhiteDevil> i keep forgetting
17:16 < Psi-Jack> takeme: Think about it a different way. What are you doing with VNC itself?
17:16 < WhiteDevil> how do i format a usb so i can save data on it ?
17:16 < pepermuntjes> whats the best torrent client for downloading movies and music albums?
17:16 < SuperSeriousCat> rtorrent-ps
17:16 < triceratux> WhiteDevil: dd zeroes to it then do some linux thing
17:16 < jim> WhiteDevil, you would make a filesystem on it (which there might already be)
17:17 < WhiteDevil> there was soemthuing called mksomething
17:17 < Psi-Jack> pepermuntjes: Yes.. Just get right to the point. Expose yourself directly. Sheash.
17:17 < jim> WhiteDevil, mkfs
17:17 < AbleBacon> i'm doing "git ls-files | grep .h", but i'm getting files with all sorts of extensions, not just ".h"... what's the correct way to do this? i've tried "--include" but it just gives me syntax errors
17:17 < jim> "make file system"
17:18 < pepermuntjes> rtorrent-ps looks good to download movies, music and software. Thank you. I espessially like hollywood movies.
17:18 < rumpel> AbleBacon, try grep \.h$
17:18 < jim> AbleBacon, couple things going on... one, in your pattern ".h", the . means "any char"
17:18 < WhiteDevil> i should go for etx4 right ?
17:19 < AbleBacon> oh damn it. ok thanks
17:19 < WhiteDevil> ext4
17:19 < AbleBacon> didn't realize it was using regex
17:19 < takeme> can i have session in vnc like using tmux in ssh? Psi-Jack
17:19 < pepermuntjes> Psi-Jack, do you like downloading movies and music with torrents?
17:19 < hodapp> so, I am running some things at startup on a machine, but I'm trying to make it feasible to connect remotely and look at what's going on with said processes (particularly, to see if/why they failed), and I'm avoiding doing this in systemd
17:19 < jim> WhiteDevil, if you only want to use it on linux, that would be ok
17:19 < Psi-Jack> jim: Mind taking care of that? ^
17:19 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: i finished replacing gnome-terminal with urxvt on Solus3. there is a bug in the rxvt-unicode in their repo. the system ${TERM} variable is pointing at something that exists under the wrong name in /usr/share/terminfo/r & can be fixed with a symlink
17:19 < hodapp> so, I am running things in tmux and doing some tmux commands to start things in windows
17:20 < jim> Psi-Jack, one sec
17:20 < hodapp> the problem is, if the scripts fail, tmux kills the window, so I added remain-on-exit, but if I do that, tmux just says "Pane is dead" and hides the output when it exits.
17:20 < hodapp> how might I work around this and keep the output visible?
17:21 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: gnome-terminal exhibits a bug in mc where shft-f6 (rename) issues f8 (delete with veto). other terminals (eg urxvt) dont exhibit the bug so replacing the terminal is often the fastest way to fix mc on distros like Solus3
17:22 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: Simple.. Stop using mc. :)
17:23 < Psi-Jack> That sounds more specifically like an mc bug than anything.
17:23 < jim> pepermuntjes, so you're talking about downloading things that are someone else's property; please don't do that here
17:23 < pepermuntjes> jim, my bet, i ment music and movies older then 70 years.
17:23 < pepermuntjes> but point is taken
17:23 < pepermuntjes> sorry
17:24 < jim> pepermuntjes, thanks
17:24 < hodapp> oh. I see bash has --init-file and this may do what I want without having to futz with tmux-specific options
17:24 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: it is. shft-f6 is a startlingly poor design choice. the scary thing is that shft-f4 issues the command instead of shft-f6. so theres a kludgy workaround. but on voidlinux i actually fixed it in mc by adjusting their scancodes. on most distros you dont see the issue at all
17:24 < takeme> can i have session in vnc like using tmux in ssh?
17:24 < hodapp> but --init-file bypasses .bashrc... hmm
17:25 < hodapp> takeme: what do you mean, like a desktop session you can resume anyplace?
17:25 < Psi-Jack> takeme: Again, think about how you're using VNC itself.
17:25 < takeme> yes hodapp
17:25 < jim> takeme, well mainly, how you do this, is you ssh to the remote... you can get this far?
17:25 < WhiteDevil> okay i did a mkfs.ext3 on my usb
17:25 < WhiteDevil> now it says cant copy file to the usb
17:25 < takeme> jim: yes
17:25 < hodapp> that is normal usage of VNC (and RDP, and other protocols)
17:25 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: Solus3 doesnt have xrdb. theyre deemphasising apps that rely on .Xmodmap. theyre also deemphasising apps that rely on that ancient termcap & terminfo stuff. imho thats a good direction to take. that ancient stuff accounts for some of the buggiest effects encounterd on malconfigured linux
17:26 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: It does have xrdb.
17:26 < triceratux> oops .Xresources of course
17:26 < Psi-Jack> It's just not installed by default. :)
17:26 < WhiteDevil> so what is wrong "
17:26 < WhiteDevil> ?
17:26 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: yep its in the repo liks xset is. i installed xset
17:26 < jim> takeme, ok, you would run tmux -on the remote machine-, then you can detach
17:27 < jim> and the tmux will stay on the remote
17:27 < takeme> jim: yes but i want to use vnc
17:27 < takeme> instead of ssh
17:27 < jim> takeme, ok, what do you get when you vnc in?
17:28 < takeme> jim: no idea
17:28 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: so heres a question. are there activity plugins for the budgie panel so i can watch cpu & net ? i dont like flying blind. normally ill kludge up some kind of gkrellm. but gkrellm isnt in the Solus3 repo waaaa
17:28 < jim> takeme, ok, what is it you expect to happen?
17:29 < Psi-Jack> triceratux: There seems to be no budgie applets like that at this time.
17:29 < takeme> ah
17:29 < takeme> lol
17:29 < takeme> stop
17:29 < triceratux> Psi-Jack: thats my evaluation as well. getting ready to google the evolution os stuff ;)
17:29 < Psi-Jack> Also to note, VNC by itself, is unencrypted and insecure.
17:30 < autopsy> gkrellm is awesome. Gnome 3.26 has a cpufreq monitoring plugin built in.
17:32 < triceratux> yep with Solus yer doubly thwarted getting cpu activiy visible. im back to listening to my fan to know when the javascript has taken the browser off the pier
17:32  * triceratux has these core linux skills
17:32 < autopsy> Core Linux Skillz.
17:32 < Psi-Jack> Heh, What about the WebAssembly?
17:32 < Psi-Jack> Did you forget about those thinking there was just JavaScript? ;)
17:32 < hodapp> gkrellm... that's a term I've not read for awhile
17:34 < triceratux> bottom line, although its soulless, i take solace in Solus. because its SO LOOSE :)
17:36 < triceratux> but im still suspicious of that boot. theyre doing some weird esp thing even on the iso: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  10 Jul 12 20:31 SOLUSESP -> ../../sdb2
17:38 < jim> takeme, see, I never did a vnc before, I've heard of it but moreorless forgot what to expect... do you have a machine you can "vnc" into? (I don't exactly know how it works, so I'm wildly clueless about how tmux fits in with that)
17:38 < triceratux> solus believes someday everyone will have uefi enabled macs & not be running any x11 software that relies on unix termcaps. that is a direction to go, but much of linux isnt ready for that quite yet ;)
17:38 < Psi-Jack> jim: Basically, you VNC to a X session (new or existing), run a terminal, run tmux in that.
17:38 < takeme> ahhhhhhh i m too tired i m too sleepyyyyyyyy ahhhh
17:38 < takeme> jim:
17:39 < Psi-Jack> Or X2Go, which would be better, more secure, and tunnels over SSH, you could do the same.
17:39 < jim> takeme, ok, no worries, we can always do this another time
17:39 < takeme> ahhhhhhhhhhhh lol
17:45 < autopsy> jim tmux should work in a terminal on VNC. It's a remote desktop application.
17:45 < autopsy> So you can see your DE from remote machines.
17:45 < autopsy> Over ethernet.
17:46 < autopsy> Fedora has a VNC installer daemon on the ISO.
17:46 < autopsy> So you can install remotely on a machine with no graphics cards.
17:53 < lukey> Hello everyone I'm using an thinlv on top of an vdo volume, but discard aren't passed down to vdo. Also I see the following in the kernel log:
17:53 < lukey> device-mapper: thin: Data device (dm-6) max discard sectors smaller than a block: Disabling discard passdown.
17:53 < lukey> any clues about that?
17:54 < autopsy> VNC is So you can install remotely on a machine with no graphics cards.
17:54 < autopsy> And have a display for X.
17:54 < autopsy> Remotely.
18:07 < Muyfret> wouuld any of you like to review my use of mprotect?
18:08 < SuperSeriousCat> Not me
18:17 < autopsy> What is mprotect?
18:19 < section1> a system call
18:20 < XCE> whos it calling
18:21 < section1> Muyfret's program :)
18:21 < autopsy> It's calling home.
18:21 < autopsy> mprotect(home, sizeof(*et));
18:22 < autopsy> XCE it's calling you man!
18:22 < Muyfret> https://github.com/men37/kob  this is the program that uses it.
18:23 < Muyfret> it's my first venture into mprotect.
18:24 < XCE> wonder whats the intersection is between ##c and ##linux
18:24 < birdbolt1> yo
18:25 < Muyfret> XCE, torvalds.
18:25 < birdbolt1> when i use chmod -r  does it persist for new file snad folders
18:25 < XCE> I mean on this network
18:25 < XCE> 2300 users in here
18:25 < XCE> shy of 1k in there
18:25 < lupine> birdbolt1: no, it's a onetime thing
18:25 < autopsy> birdbolt1, chmod changes the modes on files and directories one time.
18:25 < birdbolt1> what of chown?
18:26 < autopsy> birdbolt1, you can set a umask though for users creating new files and directories.
18:26 < autopsy> birdbolt1, chown changes the file or directories ownership.
18:26 < SuperSeriousCat> You can check that with a whois script, XCE
18:27 < SuperSeriousCat> If it is legal to Freenode rules. It can get quite spammy
18:27 < autopsy> birdbolt1, you can set umask and dmask though.
18:27 < birdbolt1> autopsy, in that case, chown is what i should be after then.
18:27 < autopsy> birdbolt1, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO?
18:27 < birdbolt1> not familiar with umask and dmask. I'm trying to solve an issue in docker, and i doubt Alpine has that utility bundled in
18:28 < autopsy> Alpine is for the birds.
18:28 < birdbolt1> I have a shared volume between two containers, and when i start up my containers, they are owned by root, which causes permission errors
18:28 < lupine> docker is for the nuts
18:28 < SuperSeriousCat> #docker is probably better. And it go by uid/gid, not name
18:29 < lupine> best to remove docker from your solution though
18:29 < birdbolt1> what is this...
18:29 < SuperSeriousCat> Docker is awesome
18:29 < SuperSeriousCat> Just ask in their channel
18:30 < lupine> if by awesome, you mean, terrible, then yes, I agree
18:30 < birdbolt1> why the hate for docker? you guys say it like im just sitting somewher ready to switch 180 any time of the day
18:30 < birdbolt1> SuperSeriousCat, this is a linux issue im dealing with, not docker
18:30 < lupine> I don't hate it, I just think it leads to terrible architecture
18:30 < Psi-Jack> Meh. Docker. I use docker for testing purposes, but production, never.
18:30 < lupine> the problem you're experiencing is solely due to using docker
18:30 < birdbolt1> Psi-Jack, kubernetes?
18:30 < Psi-Jack> Again, docker is good for testing, NOT production.
18:30 < SuperSeriousCat> >owned by root