--- Log opened Mon May 14 00:00:19 2018
00:05 < Harlock> FC?
00:06 <+catphish> Harlock: nah, needs to be ethernet based
00:06 <+catphish> there are a couple of protocols that exist, but iscsi is the only one with wide support
00:07 <+catphish> so i either use iscsi, or essentially make something proprietary thats not going to work with other software
00:07 <+catphish> which isn't the end of the world
00:09 < Harlock> depedning on the situation working well is better than wide compatibility
00:10 <+catphish> yes indeed
00:36 < totesmuhgoats> Hi guys
00:37 < totesmuhgoats> what do I need to be able to resolve hosts on my lan by hostname?
00:38 < totesmuhgoats> it sometimes works, but not always
00:38 < GenteelBen> Use your router as your DNS server.
00:38 < totesmuhgoats> GenteelBen: I thought that might be the solution :)
00:38 < GenteelBen> If your hosts don't self-assign a hostname, then you need a DNS server like Windows Server's DNS role.
00:38 < GenteelBen> Pretty much no home routers allow you to edit DNS records held on the router.
00:39 < totesmuhgoats> well in the router's dhcp table it seems to be aware of the hostname
00:39 < GenteelBen> Not sure what your specific problem is.
00:39 < totesmuhgoats> I think you already answered it
00:39 < GenteelBen> Another ##networking success story!
00:40 < totesmuhgoats> I've had some variability recently
00:40 < GenteelBen> Do people still use FCoE, catphish? I'd assumed it had dropped out of favour due to needing to buy expensive FCoE HBAs and FCoE switches.
00:40 < totesmuhgoats> Got a new linux distro running on this machine but also had to replace my consumer grade router / firewall / access point / switch
00:40 <+catphish> GenteelBen: i've never seen FCoE in the wild, i believe iscsi killed it
00:41 < totesmuhgoats> so I wasn't sure if the reason hostname resolution wasn't working was because the router wasn't acting as a DNS server, or if there was something protocol specific on the host I was missing
00:41 < totesmuhgoats> in case you were wondering why that question was so easy to answer
00:42 <+catphish> GenteelBen: FCoE isn't really what it claims to be IMO, it doesn't operate over ethernet, rather an expensive extension of ethernet, and really quite unnecessary when you can run scsi over IP
00:43 < ericlee> Hi, anyone ever use tc to control ingress traffic in Linux?
00:56 < rhineheart_m> Guys....regarding fiber optic deployment...if let's say there are 3 buildings in a daisy chain layout...using an 8-core foc...but only 2 cores to be used for these buildings...are the foc cut per building?
01:05 <+catphish> rhineheart_m: afaik you can't cut only part of the cable if that's what you're asking
01:06 <+catphish> you run the various cables, and splice as needed
01:37 < Pimpernel00> Does anyone have experiencing dual-booting a mac to have ubuntu?
01:37 < Pimpernel00> I’m having trouble partitioning this mac to have the ubuntu storage on MS-DOS (FAT)
01:38 < Pimpernel00> It says ‘This volume can not be resized’
01:56 < tpr> i bet there are more proper channels for that question, but my experiences dualbooting with a 2006 macbook weren't that good
01:56 < tpr> unfortunately no idea if it has gotten better since
02:08 < Pimpernel00> tpr: what channels would you suggest to me to inquire about dual-booting on macs?
02:09 < tpr> Pimpernel00: I think some of the mac forums did use to have irc channels too, I think that'd be the best bet
02:09 < tpr> can't remember those anymore, it's been a long time. or maybe there is something like ##apple or ##osx too?
02:11 < Pimpernel00> yaeh
02:26 < Pimpernel_> test
02:28 < SporkWitch> fail
02:29 < SporkWitch> tpr, Pimpernel_: according to alis, there's also ##hackintosh
03:22 < batch> hi, can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong here? iptables complaint about ethx1 beeing incorrect while it's really available: https://bpaste.net/show/5668333a4aad
03:23 < Aldem> Hello
03:24 < Aldem> Back on 8 and 7, I had a software that was staying in the tray and told me my internet data usage when asked.
03:24 < Aldem> Forgot it's name :/
03:25 < meingtsla> batch: What does "ip link show" say?
03:25 < Aldem> Ahhhhhh
03:26 < Aldem> Networx it was
03:26 < batch> meingtsla ethx1: <NO-CARRIER,BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state DOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000
03:27 < batch> i'm about to throw all this cheap hardware in garbage i swear
03:28 < danko0range> how to create website
03:28 < danko0range> url
03:28 < danko0range> ?
03:28 < meingtsla> What if you do "! -i ethx1" instead of "-i ! ethx1"?  (Though afaik either one should work.......)
03:28 < light> danko0range: like this www.creedthoughts.gov.www\creedthoughts
03:29 < batch> damn you are good meingtsla
03:29 < batch> thx alot!
03:29 < batch> i just copied from here https://www.cybrary.it/0p3n/debian-firewall-gateway/
03:29 < danko0range> really
03:30 < batch> but his use of dash is bad
03:30 < batch> danko0range idk
03:30 < danko0range> idk?
03:31 < tds> batch: you also probably want to be using iptables-save/iptables-restore rather than your own scripts (eg with iptables-persistent on debian)
03:31 < Aldem> When I saw creedthoughs, I though of CCR heh
03:31 < batch> i was more thinking of a rope to hang myself tds
03:32 < batch> but thx for the suggestion
03:32 < batch> :p
03:36 < batch> really tds it's impossible to make a gateway with iptables routing
03:36 < batch> i'm lost
03:37 < tds> it's definitely not impossible, all my routers use iptables :)
03:37 < tds> what issues are you having?
03:38 < batch> so i have this now
03:38 < batch> i was able to give the interface on my zero an ip and define the network
03:39 < batch> but now the client hanging on the adapter is not getting any ip
03:39 < batch> no-carrier says networkctl from the client
03:39 < batch> https://bpaste.net/show/5668333a4aad are the rules currently loaded
03:40 < tds> batch: ahh, were you the person doing wifi stuff with a pi?
03:40 < batch> do i need to specify specific separate client rules aswell or hmm?
03:40 < batch> tds yes that's me
03:40 < tds> you won't have ethx1 and ethx2 on a pi
03:40 < batch> but i changed it from wireless to wire to both wired
03:41 < batch> oh yes i have, using 2 usb-to-ethernet adapters
03:41 < tds> oh, if they're both wired, you don't need the nat mess anymore
03:41 < tds> you can just do plain ethernet bridging
03:41 < tds> if I'm remembering what you were trying to do correctly?
03:41 < batch> yeah i was thinking either routing or bridging
03:42 < tds> what were you actually trying to do, again?
03:42 < batch> my idea was bridging aswell but yesterday another guys said routing will be fine
04:01 < linuxmodder> what the hell is LPSRecommender used for / purpose ?  I keep hitting a wall with IANA registration but not explaination
04:02 < djph> jurislav: "auto" TX is 200% fucking wrong
04:02 < linuxmodder> djph,  no surprise to find you here too
04:03 < batch> tds i think i found the real issue
04:03 < batch> so they are both same models usb-to-ethernet adapters
04:03 < batch> same drivermodule
04:04 < batch> and both get renamed from eth0 to ethx1 and ethx0
04:04 < batch> so i think my system doesn't even try to figure out wether there's more then one adapter
04:04 < batch> +-
04:04 < batch> still confusing for myself but i saw it with dmesg
04:07 < batch> this is how i'm doing it btw https://bpaste.net/show/b6db075b0610
04:22 < linuxmodder> anyone able to explain what LPSRecommender is/does aka port 2620 ?
04:22 < linuxmodder> iana seems to have diddly shit on it beyond it's a registered port
04:25 < purpleunicorn> Should i make kali Linux or Ubuntu a com?
04:25 < purpleunicorn> *VM
04:26 < linuxmodder> purpleunicorn,  why not?
04:26 < linuxmodder> kali is kinda meant to be VM'd anyway
04:26 < purpleunicorn> I just don’t know which one’s better for me
04:26 < purpleunicorn> I’m making it a vm for my Mac
04:26 < linuxmodder> usecase / purpose for both or either one
04:27 < purpleunicorn> Is one faster and easier than the other?
04:28 < linuxmodder> faster is all subjective
04:28 < linuxmodder> easier in what sense?
04:30 < purpleunicorn> I’ve never used Linux so I’m a beginner I guess. I just don’t want it to be too hard to navigate while using it
04:30 < SporkWitch> purpleunicorn: why kali?
04:31 < linuxmodder> SporkWitch,  I was thinking same thing
04:31 < SporkWitch> linuxmodder: it's pretty much always the first thing that should be asked when kali comes up lol
04:31 < purpleunicorn> I don’t have a particular reason but I want to download linux and any form of it. I want better security.
04:31 < linuxmodder> ubuntu then to get thy feet wet safely
04:31 < SporkWitch> purpleunicorn: you're misunderstanding the purpose of kali then; it's a toolkit for penetration testing, it's not a high-security workstation distro
04:32 < linuxmodder> lol
04:32 < SporkWitch> purpleunicorn: ubuntu 18.04 switched back to gnome, which will look very familiar to a mac user
04:32 < purpleunicorn> Okay. I’ve downloaded Ubuntu before but it was to brute force my HDD
04:32 < linuxmodder> now that ^ usecase would have been squarely in kali's wheelhouse
04:32 < purpleunicorn> Okay I’ll go with that then SporkWitch
04:32 < SporkWitch> yup
04:32 < purpleunicorn> Ok
04:32 < SporkWitch> related: debian packaging is a PITA lol
04:33 < linuxmodder> what dpkg is too much for you ?
04:33 < purpleunicorn> Do you guys know any free vpn’s?
04:33 < SporkWitch> spent most of the day trying to figure out build deps, because i already had everything myself, had to figure out what launchpad's build system wanted lol
04:33 < linuxmodder> hell I was doing a firewall ansible play and going the total dumbass hard way
04:33 < purpleunicorn> I know they usually suck but I have no choice rn
04:34 < linuxmodder> purpleunicorn, self hosted with socks proxy to a VPS somewhere
04:34 < SporkWitch> linuxdaemon: was driving me nuts because it built fine locally; i had to figure out that crazy "quilt" patching system, and the build deps, before i finally got it to build on the ppa
04:35 < SporkWitch> erm, linuxmodder ^
04:35 < linuxmodder> lol
04:35 < SporkWitch> and now my email is out there for all the world to spam and blame when it doesn't work lol
04:35 < linuxmodder> gem install github-pages was like that for me today too, it finally built and now I forgot how the hell to interface with it
04:36 < SporkWitch> ugghh, i hate ruby; why can't it just install things like a normal program?
04:36 < linuxmodder> that is why you use a forwarder or throwaway and fwd that :)
04:39 < linuxmodder> SporkWitch, https://gist.github.com/linux-modder/0c4a3b2cb78c02007711db889001e30e
04:39 < linuxmodder> a very specific and CTF style logic to those static ports too :)
04:39 < linuxmodder> TigerOS is the only hint you get
05:03 < batch> bind-interfaces in dnsmasq is used for making dns available on 127.0.0.1 for all interfaces or am i seeing it wrong??
05:09 < matt|home> yo. quick question, i just bought a new laptop for work and i kinda need it to remain relatively secure. i have drive encryption, antivirus programs and malware scanners active, but from a networking standpoint is there any kind of uh.. i guess firewall is the term? like iptables or something i should be employing, or are network-based malware relatively rare
05:11 < purpleunicorn> So it says remove the installation medium before restarting my laptop. What is the medium?
05:11 < purpleunicorn> Am I deleting the Ubuntu download package
05:12 < rewt> the medium is a cd, dvd, usb drive, etc
05:13 < SporkWitch> matt|home: linux has iptables, i believe unix uses the same, but not sure, it's been a while since i've used a unix
05:13 < purpleunicorn> Okay well I guess in this case it’s the vm???
05:13 < purpleunicorn> I mean virtual box
05:14 < matt|home> this is a windows 10 laptop, i don't know anything about its vulnerabilities or what kinda networking you can do with windows
05:14 < rewt> the firewall that comes with windows is good enough
05:14 < SporkWitch> matt|home: windows firewall will typically prompt you to allow new programs, but it doesn't require UAC IIRC, so a malicious application could potentially open ports
05:15 < matt|home> hm
05:16 < matt|home> so what's the probability of me getting any kind of malware if: i dont go to any nontrusted websites, i dont download any nontrusted programs, and i dont connect to any wifi other than my own
05:16 < matt|home> i assume something like a worm is relatively rare
05:17 < SporkWitch> higher than if you weren't on windows
05:17 < matt|home> hm
05:17 < matt|home> are there any good free firewall programs i should be using?
05:19 < SporkWitch> asked and answered
05:25 < matt|home> uh
05:25 < matt|home> if you say so
05:29 < cheng08> cant access openwrt web UI and ssh?
05:29 < cheng08> how can I fix it?
05:29 < light> have you tried turning it off and on again?
05:29 < mast> You will need to do a factory reset
05:30 < cheng08> mast: I try factory reset not working
05:30 < cheng08> '
05:30 < cheng08> is factory reset need to communicate with the computer?
05:30 < cheng08> light: yes I try it.
05:34 < Jmabsd> Q: i like to understand how the 1x40gbps-to-4x10gbps on the Intel XL710 NIC works
05:34 < Jmabsd> https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/ethernet-xl710-brief.pdf
05:35 < Jmabsd> the breakout cable is this: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/ethernet-qsfp-cables-brief.pdf https://ark.intel.com/products/71867/Intel-Ethernet-QSFP-Breakout-Cable https://ark.intel.com/products/series/71863/Intel-Ethernet-QSFP-cables
05:38 < cheng08> cant access openwrt web UI and ssh?
05:40 < Jmabsd> urr.. this document https://downloadmirror.intel.com/25245/eng/qsfp-configuration-utility-quick-usage-guide.pdf , only shows "4x10gbps"
05:40 < Jmabsd> so you can only run ONE port in 4x10gbps, and the other one will anyhow stay as 40gbps?
06:00 < cheng08> Can't access openwrt web UI and ssh?
06:02 < SporkWitch> cheng08: we saw the first two times
06:03 < SporkWitch> see also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
06:12 < Jmabsd> what is "QSFP+ direct attach copper", a 20gbps copper cat7 cable?
06:16 < SporkWitch> https://lmgtfy.com/?s=d&q=what+is+OSFP+direct+attach+copper
06:21 < Jmabsd> err, so, the 40gbps QSFP to 4x 10gbps breakout cable that you can run on Intel's XL710 chip and also their X520-QDA1, is shown here: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/ethernet-qsfp-cables-brief.pdf
06:21 < Jmabsd> they offer one that is "twinaxial"
06:21 < Jmabsd> and one that they just call "breakout".
06:22 < Jmabsd> is one of these based on coppper e.g. normal rj45-cat7 cable, and the other one is optical? or what's the differencE?
06:32 < ericlee> Hi, anyone ever used tc for traffic control?
06:43 < grawity> Jmabsd: I don't think twinax is physically anything like cat7, no
06:43 < Jmabsd> grawity: and there are no adapters? so those are two separate worlds
06:43 < grawity> adapters to what?
06:43 < Jmabsd> is twinax sfp+ faster for some reason than cat7 rj45?
06:44 < Jmabsd> grawity: sfp+ twinax to rj45 cat7
06:44 < grawity> why would you need that
06:44 < Jmabsd> grawity: i didn't use any of the sfp+ / qsfp+ stuff previously
06:44 < grawity> if you have a SFP+ slot and need rj45, get a SFP+ rj45 module
06:45 < Jmabsd> grawity: aha. wait, can you take one minute to explain to me, so here for instance http://www.hotlavasystems.com/products_10gbe.html is a 10gbps module with an "SFP+" connector.
06:45 < Jmabsd> grawity: similarly here, https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/ethernet-qsfp-cables-brief.pdf , you see the breakout cables for the 40gbps XL710 intel nic
06:45 < Jmabsd> grawity: i get a bit lost in the XL710's terminology
06:46 < Jmabsd> grawity: they offer a "Intel® Ethernet QSFP+ Twinaxial Cables" variant, and a "Intel® Ethernet QSFP+ Breakout Cables" variant.
06:46 < Jmabsd> what's the difference?
06:46 < grawity> looks like the latter is 1x40 Gbps SFP to 4x10 Gbps SFP
06:46 < Jmabsd> grawity: what is SFP+ actually?
06:47 < grawity> I don't know much about the fancy stuff above good old 1 Gbps
06:47 < Jmabsd> grawity: all i have experience with is RJ45.
06:47 < Jmabsd> i thought SFP means "optical", lol.
06:47 < grawity> but from what I've heard, 40 Gbps ports are special in that they consist of four 10 Gbps links *and* can run all of them separately (giving you four independent 10 Gbps links)
06:48 < Jmabsd> oh really, ahaaa
06:48 < Jmabsd> ok
06:48 < grawity> SFP and the like are formats for ... "media interfaces" in general, I think that's not very wrong
06:48 < Jmabsd> grawity: the XL710 with two 40gps seem to be able to operate the 4x10gbps breakout only for *one* 40gbps port
06:49 < Jmabsd> grawity: do you have any idea what "breakout" and "twinaxial" means here
06:50 < grawity> well
06:50 < grawity> literally the same as before
06:50 < Jmabsd> grawity: it's interesting this is all over the market and it's not even clear what it is
06:50 < grawity> "breakout" = one connection on one end, multiple connections on the other end
06:51 < grawity> and I'm just guessing but I think *all* of them are twinaxial
06:51 < grawity> their marketing team just didn't want to add too many specifiers or something
06:52 < grawity> twinaxial being the type of the cable that runs in the middle
06:52 < Jmabsd> grawity: btw this seems to be the ""monster"" class in the industry, http://www.hotlavasystems.com/pdfs/HLS_StHelens_Datasheet.pdf
06:53 < grawity> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ way beyond my little LAN
06:53 < Jmabsd> grawity: you see that HotLava card uses XL710 to give you like at least 8x 10gbps from one NIC.
06:53 < Jmabsd> i think that's actually a **CHEAPER** solution as "virtual switch", than to go buy your own 10gbps switch
06:53 < Jmabsd> multiport 10gbps switches are phenomenally expensive.
06:53 < Jmabsd> and big
06:54 < Jmabsd> grawity: anyhow i still don't understand the SFP connectors thing
06:59 < mast> Yeah I don't either really
06:59 < mast> Its laziness on my part. I have a bunch of swtiches with SFP and I understand is that it lets you have fancy jack swapping
07:00 < grawity> and that's about it, no?
07:04 < Jmabsd> those HotLava cards are expensive.
07:04 < Jmabsd> mast,grawity: does SFP mean "optical"? what's SFP actually
07:04 < Jmabsd> they have those gigantic, deep connectors that allow you to plug n play the PHY:s no??
07:05 < grawity> no it doesn't mean "optical"
07:06 < grawity> but that's the most popular use, I'm sure
07:11 < Jmabsd> grawity,mast: so "SFP" is a kind of plug n play PHY standard?
07:11 < Jmabsd> which has both a laser-optical module standard, and a copper cable standard but which is separate from rj45?
07:11 < Jmabsd> hm
07:11 < grawity> yeah I suppose
07:12 < grawity> there *are* SFPs with ordinary RJ45 ports too
07:13 < grawity> and the "laser-optical" modules are many different types, not all of them even laser-based AFAIK
07:14 < Jmabsd> grawity: would those rj45 based SFP modules work with all SFP NIC:s?
07:14 < grawity> tbh I don't see why not
07:15 < Jmabsd> aha, this may be called "10g rj45 transciever", https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=10g+rj45+transciever
07:15 < Jmabsd> yep, they cost around 175 USD per piece.
07:15 < RJ45> Jmabsd: yo mama's may be called "10g rj45 transciever"
07:16 < RJ45> Jmabsd: yo mama cost around 175 USD per piece
07:16 < RJ45> XD
07:17 < Jmabsd> sigh.
07:22 < Jmabsd> interesting to see that the SFP to RJ45 10gbps transceivers are so expensive (135USD for generic and 175-200 USD for a branded one), compared to the SFP to 10gbps fiber transceivers which are like 20 USD
07:22 < RJ45> S U C C
07:23 < Jmabsd> now... Intel's QSFP+ breakout gives you.. four.. *MALE* SFP connectors?? https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/ethernet-qsfp-cables-brief.pdf
07:25 < grawity> well yes, that's what direct-attach cables are
07:25 < grawity> straight from SFP slot of device A to SFP slot of device B
07:26 < Jmabsd> ahaaaaaa. got it.
07:27 < Jmabsd> grawity: is there any way that I can break out one QSFP into four 10gbit ethernet rj45 connectors?
07:27 < Jmabsd> btw, what's the difference between "QSFP" and "QSFP+"
07:27 < RJ45> Jmabsd: woah there, this sounds pretty x-rated
07:28 < Jmabsd> lol.
07:28 < SporkWitch> "difference between" is genergally going to have a lot of good google hits
07:29 < RJ45> I'm bit-banging ur wife
07:29 < Jmabsd> aha, there is QSFP to 2x RJ45 10gbps
07:29 < Jmabsd> mm
07:29 < Jmabsd> sporkwitch: this whole QSFP/SFP thing was all new to me. interesting.
07:46 < Jmabsd> (Promise are unclear about the difference https://www.promise.com/Products/SANLink/SANLink3-N1/ and https://www.promise.com/Products/SANLink/SANLink3-T1/  for their Thunderbolt 10g adapters, emailed.)
07:52 < SporkWitch> Jmabsd: i find quite a few results for "difference between osfp and osfp+" that answer your question
08:10 < Jmabsd> sporkwitch: ahh, "QSFP" means 4x1gbps, while "QSFP+" means 4x10gps, gotcha, http://www.fiber-optic-equipment.com/difference-between-qsfp-qsfp-qsfp28.html
08:38 < Jmabsd> grawity,sporkwich,*: interesting, so a dual-QSFP+ XL710 NIC can be made to break out to *in total* 4x SFP+. if you run all those 4x on one of the QSFP+ ports, then the other one will just deactivate as i understand it.
08:38 < Jmabsd> now, i like to understand how you can convert QSFP+ to multiple 10GBASE-T RJ45 connectors
08:38 < Jmabsd> i see one single product on the market to actually do that: https://www.hpe.com/us/en/product-catalog/servers/server-transceivers/pip.server-transceivers.1008646254.html
08:42 < Jmabsd> is there any way to take one of those QSFP+ male to 4x SFP+ male, to convert the SFP+ male to SFP+ female and so plug in a 10GBASET RJ45 transceiver there?
08:55 < detha> you want to do *what* ?  What would be the purpose of that? Have a longer qsfp+ to RJ45?
08:55 < detha> (also, where would the qsfp module get power from?)
09:00 < detha> Anyway, reading that again: I'd call that an 8-port SFP+ switch. Plug the 4 sfp+ into the first 4 ports, plug some shady RJ45 transceivers in the other 4 ports.
09:10 < Jmabsd> detha: for instance Intel XL710 allows you to use one QSFP+ (40gbps) port as *FOUR* different 10gbps ethernet interfaces!
09:12 < Jmabsd> detha: so what i asked myself is, how do you actually make use of those four 10gbps interfaces, what kind of adapters do you need for it
09:12 < Jmabsd> and that seems to be total jungle presently
09:12 < Jmabsd> detha: right, i think this is the cheapest 10gbps switch out there: https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/qsw-1208-8c
09:12 < Jmabsd> 500 USD for 12 ports, of which 8 are SFP+.
09:12 < jurislav> djph: i don't get it. Auto TX is a requirement for "Self Healing" feature - you say that one is useless too?
09:12 < detha> you either plug it into a switch, or you go back to 1x40Gb
09:14 < detha> Jmabsd: read the specs, and read them again. Not all switches can handle this.
09:14 < detha> What are you actually trying to do here?
09:15 < mAniAk-_-> Jmabsd: just use qsfp breakout to DAC or fiber?
09:15 < Jmabsd> detha: i guess all QSFP+ switches are very expensive?
09:16 < Jmabsd> what's the cheapest 4/6/8/10/12 port you're aware of?
09:16 < Jmabsd> maniak-_-: right, the DAC cable is the easy one - that gives you QSFP+ or SFP+ *MALE* connectors to plug directly into the other end right.    can you give me an example ofa  QSFP+ to 4 x fiber breakout cable?
09:16 < mAniAk-_-> Jmabsd: youll find qsfp in high density datacenter switches, thousands of $ at a minimum
09:17 < detha> The one where the VAR is short of monthly target, and you can beat the SE down to list minus 60 :p
09:17 < mAniAk-_-> Jmabsd: yes, intended use is to connect to stuff in the same rack
09:18 < Jmabsd> maniak-_-: right.  what about optical splitter cable, do you know any?
09:18 < Jmabsd> also what's the cheapest switch with a QSFP+ connector you're aware of ?=)
09:18 < mAniAk-_-> Jmabsd: uh, what is that
09:18 < mAniAk-_-> Jmabsd: something on ebay maybe?
09:18 < Jmabsd> QSFP+ is the 40gbps form
09:24 < Jmabsd> detha: ??
09:25 < Jmabsd> detha: so again, the XL710 supports operating one QSFP+ port as four separate SFP+ interfaces.
09:25 < Jmabsd> and i wonder how to actually use that, in particular with 10GBASE-T RJ45
09:26 < detha> Jmabsd: I still have no idea what the question behind all this is. What are you trying to build ?
09:36 < Jmabsd> are there any 100gbps pci nics today?
09:36 < Jmabsd> ah right, mellanox.
09:44 < mAniAk-_-> Jmabsd: what are you trying to do?
09:56 < Jmabsd> maniak-_-: i just explored what's possible to do with 40gbit ethernet.
09:56 < Jmabsd> what i see is that 10gbit ethernet is the fastest ethernet available that has been "commoditized".
09:56 < Jmabsd> the XL710 is the fastest "commodity" ethernet adapter out there, and then it's most useful in its 10gbps mode
09:57 < Jmabsd> just because there's more switches and other nics
09:57 < Jmabsd> the fastest commodity Thunderbolt 3 NIC is 10gbps RJ45.
09:57 < Jmabsd> so, there is some hardware for the 40gbps ethernet, it's based on QSFP+, and it's a bit exotic and mostly veery expensive
09:57 < Jmabsd> i wonder what the cheapest smallest QSFP+-based 40gbps ethernet switch is - maybe Mellanox makes something
09:57 < mAniAk-_-> not that much more expensive than SFP+
09:58 < mAniAk-_-> its just a form factor
09:58 < mAniAk-_-> the asic that the port is connected to is the same
10:31 < r0n0x> heyo
10:31 < r0n0x> i need to impose some restrictions and apply certain control to my home internet
10:32 < r0n0x> like being able to view IP addresses certain devices are connecting to, blocking said IPs, potentially throttling speed of certain devices
10:36 < regdude> r0n0x: that is a job of a router and, possibly, a IDS or some traffic monitoring option
10:37 < r0n0x> well, i have a router
10:37 < regdude>  r0n0x: you might need a quite advanced router, not expensive though
10:37 < r0n0x> however i think i need some sort of special software installed on there or a better router
10:37 < r0n0x> ye
10:37 < regdude> what do you have?
10:38 < r0n0x> telstra technicolor-something
10:38 < r0n0x> a router that came with the NBN setup, i havent checked if i actually need the router or not
10:39 < r0n0x> since my ADSL comes from a fixed wireless box
10:39 < r0n0x> connected to an antenna on the roof
10:39 < regdude> damn those things are expensive
10:39 < r0n0x> because we dont have phone lines, a bit of an uncommon situation
10:39 < r0n0x> they are free here
10:40 < mAniAk-_-> ...you have wireless adsl?
10:40 < uw_fluxus> OpenWRT might be useful. If your router can run it and you're willing to replace firmware.
10:40 < r0n0x> yeah, ill need to first check i guess, if my router isnt performing some function of sorts first
10:41 < r0n0x> i.e, if its acting as a generic router would, or, if its also signing into an AP or something
10:41 < regdude> can multiple people connect to it at once?
10:42 < r0n0x> yeah
10:42 < djph> mAniAk-_-: he's probably calling it "DSL", when in fact he's simply got a WISP
10:43 < r0n0x> just to clarify, this IS wireless adsl
10:43 < grawity> how does that work, again?
10:43 < detha> wireless wires
10:44 < regdude> that is a router then, I suppose you can just buy another router with a decent software and just place if behind that CPE box
10:44 < grawity> if "DSL" is a type of physical link over phone lines, and you don't have phone lines, then it's not "DSL"...
10:45 < r0n0x> its not over 4g or something, its a special wireless link to a nearby phone tower (ironically) but over the fixed wireless NBN service
10:45 < r0n0x> anyway, it SHOULD effectively be no different to actual wired phone/ethernet but, not sure
10:45 < r0n0x> Technicolor TG797n
10:45 < djph> it's point to (multi-)point microwave.  2.4 or 5 GHz most likely.
10:45 < r0n0x> yes
10:45 < detha> it's some form of WISP-type setup I guess. The only relevance to it being wireless is that one cannot just replace the CPE with some standard box
10:46 < djph> lotta WISPs use it
10:46 < djph> depends on whether or not the WISP is doing bridged-mode on the CPE-Radio most times.  After that, it's (usually) just your run-of-the-mill pppoe
10:47 < r0n0x> oh wait, i have another router here, i could test it
10:47 < grawity> r0n0x: it might be Wi-Fi, it might be Nv2/airMAX/iPoll/etc., it might be WiMax, but it doesn't sound like "ADSL" in the slightest
10:48 < r0n0x> well, thats irrelavent
10:48 < regdude> it can be anything, but the important thing is that he can't remove the CPE box
10:48 < r0n0x> but, now i just need to see if a generic router can use that ethernet line
10:48 < r0n0x> whats CPE btw?
10:49 < regdude> that testra thing
10:49 < djph> Customer Premesis Equipment
10:49 < r0n0x> ah
10:49 < r0n0x> yeah thats a no go
10:49 < r0n0x> my router on the other hand is far as i can tell a standard router
10:49 < r0n0x> actually, i kinda would like to boost my signal so i can do drone/robot stuff around the property
10:49 < djph> regdude: not necessarrily.  Most WISPs I know of just grab whatever generic router that'll do what they need in most cases.  They don't tend to care if the customer uses it or not.
10:50 < r0n0x> well, hopefully thats the case, telstras stance on it however is that its "impossible to use internet without the T gateway router"
10:51 < regdude> djph: true, but a lot of (W)ISPs tend to just drop their CPE, but don't tell anything. I had to sniff packets to find out that IPTV and Internet was simply tagged with different VLANs, but they didn't want to share any of this information
10:51 < r0n0x> but, in the settings i cant find any account specific stuff soooo
10:51 < djph> regdude: the only two that don't (that I know of), use the radio itself as the router (although, they're already doing CGN, so I suppose another round of NAT won't be the end of the world)
10:52 < r0n0x> oh wait here we go, a PPP credentials
10:52 < r0n0x> but thats just my telstra login information
10:52 < r0n0x> is that normal to have?
10:53 < r0n0x> oh noes
10:53 < detha> sounds like normal PPPoE over some radio link then
10:53 < r0n0x> i have an IP voice service for my home phone
10:53 < r0n0x> looks like i cant replace or reprogram this
10:54 < r0n0x> but, hopefully i can just shut off wifi and install a second router
10:56 < r0n0x> swoot
10:56 < r0n0x> theres 4 ports
10:56 < r0n0x> physical ethernet ports i mean, and they are numbered
10:56 < r0n0x> so, now the question becomes, what router should i get...
10:58 < regdude> I guess OpenWRT is an option. I could recommend a few options with x86 or some routers, but that is going to be an overkill. Does anyone knows if UBNT does QoS and can mirror traffic?
10:58 < r0n0x> also, will having 2 routers have any negative effects on the speed any 1 router can attain if one of the routers is doing literally nothing but being ready to handle VOIP
10:58 < regdude> yes, 0.1ms latency increased
10:58 < r0n0x> :O
10:58 < r0n0x> is that a lot?
10:58 < mAniAk-_-> regdude: QoS yes, maybe can do mirror in their switches
10:59 < r0n0x> i mean i  know its not but i dont know how that impacts bitrates
10:59 < mAniAk-_-> regdude: doing QoS disables hardware acceleration though
10:59 < regdude> it impacts your swearing in video games
11:00 < r0n0x> i dont play video games
11:00 < regdude> mAniAk-_-: this guy uses WISP, I suppose any router from their line should be able to forward at least 100Mbps through the CPU
11:00 < regdude> 0.1ms is not noticeable for home users
11:01 < mAniAk-_-> regdude: iirc i got around 60 with my edgerouter lite
11:02 < r0n0x> so, any idea what router i should aim for?
11:03 < regdude> mAniAk-_-: any options for traffic-flow or any other traffic monitor?
11:04 < r0n0x> ill be running openwrt on it or something else if better options exist
11:04 < mAniAk-_-> regdude: they support netflow, and have something you can enable in the web interface to view flows, you get some aggregate graphs etc
11:05 < regdude> oh wait, r0n0x, do you want to monitor which addresses are being visited in real time or view a history?
11:06 < r0n0x> its not that important, but a history is fine
11:06 < r0n0x> i just asumed it was a feature of openwrt
11:06 < regdude> well a history requires a dedicated server to store that data
11:06 < r0n0x> then dont worry about it
11:07 < r0n0x> just a good affordable fast router that can run openwrt
11:07 < r0n0x> or at least be considerably better than my technicolor router
11:07 < regdude> then look for UBNT or OpenWRT, there are countless options
11:07 < r0n0x> thats the software though
11:07 < r0n0x> firmware*
11:08 < r0n0x> i mean the router on which to run it
11:08 < regdude> UBNT is a router brand that has a quite rich feature set
11:08 < r0n0x> oh
11:09 < regdude> OpenWRT is a firmware, can't really recommend any since haven't bough any routers my self for 5 years
11:09 < r0n0x> UBNT doesnt seem to support openwrt
11:10 < regdude> it seems OpenWRT can run on UBNT as well, check EdgeRouter Lite
11:10 < mAniAk-_-> i wouldnt do it though
11:10 <+xand> I imagine it can but you probably wouldn't need to or want to
11:10 < mAniAk-_-> control plane cpu on edgerouters are slow
11:10 <+xand> the ubnt routers have ASICs that won't work with openwrt
11:10 < djph> ^
11:10 < djph> not to mention Vyatta > WRT
11:10 < regdude> like all, but at least a backup option
11:11 < r0n0x> so, i guess ill just look for a normal router then which probably can support openwrt
11:12 < mAniAk-_-> r0n0x: https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/
11:12 < r0n0x> since noone has anything specific in mind, what would you say i should look for spec wise, taking at least 1 step above my generic router which i am already quite happy with, besides the limited firmware control
11:16 < r0n0x> neato RT-AC87U
11:42 < NotsoRoyal> !weather savannah, ga
11:42 < markeczzz> Hi! Question! I have network something like this:
11:42 < markeczzz>  <192.168.1.0/24> -- <R1> --VPN Tunnel-- <R2> -- <192.168.2.0/24>
11:43 < markeczzz> I need to temporarily transfer one server(192.168.1.10) from 1.0 subnet to 2.0 subnet. I can't change ip on that host, because clients on 1.0 subnet must be able to contact that server. If i would put a route on R1, something like 192.168.1.10 - gateway 192.168.2.0, would this work? Would clients on 1.0 subnet be able to contact that server?
11:43 < djph> The only way to put a server on a different subnet is to, well, change its IP address.
11:44 < Roq> markeczzz: Thats not gonna work
11:44 <+catphish> markeczzz: it is possible, but it's not easy, and there are better ways to achieve this
11:44 < Apachez> "We'll publish critical vulnerabilities in PGP/GPG and S/MIME email encryption on 2018-05-15 07:00 UTC. They might reveal the plaintext of encrypted emails, including encrypted emails sent in the past. #efail 1/4"
11:44 < djph> markeczzz: whay not just set a route on 2.0/24 back to 1.0/24 via the VPN?
11:44 < markeczzz> Ok, what would be better way to do this?
11:44 < djph> * why not
11:45 <+catphish> markeczzz: i would suggest the best option to solve this is probably NAT on R1
11:45 <+catphish> R1 would respond to arp for the old address, then 1:1 NAT to the new address
11:46 <+catphish> the other option would be proxy arp, which is quite similar, but the server would keep its IP, but just live in the wrong subnet, both routers would have to fake some ARP respnses for other other's subnet, this is likely a really bad idea
11:47 <+catphish> markeczzz: i'd strongly recommend just updating the clients to point to the new IP, but if you really can't try my first suggestion, change the server's IP, then use 1:1 NAT on R1
11:47 < djph> I suppose it really depends on what he means by "server needs to be on 2.0/24"
11:47 <+catphish> so R1 pretends to be the server, but rewrites the packats to its real IP
11:47 <+catphish> actually, wait...
11:48 <+catphish> " I can't change ip on that host, because clients on 1.0 subnet must be able to contact that server"
11:48 <+catphish> i just read that again, why would changing its IP prevent clients accessing it?
11:48 <+catphish> they just need to connect to its new IP, do that!
11:48 <+catphish> i was working on the principle that the IP of the server couldn't change, but that's dumb
11:49 < detha> who says the server cannot have two IPs, one in each subnet?
11:49 < markeczzz> Because that IP is hardcoded in client application (yup, badly written software)
11:49 <+catphish> i assume they're in different physical locations (since there's a VPN between them)
11:49 < Emperorpenguin> whaaaaaaa
11:49 < Emperorpenguin> hardcoded IP
11:49 < Emperorpenguin> you're goona have a bad time
11:49 <+catphish> markeczzz: oh, nasty, then i suggest you look as NAT as I suggested
11:49 < markeczzz> Yes, well.. it sucks :D
11:49 <+catphish> R1 should pretend to be the server, then NAT to its real IP
11:49 < markeczzz> Well, what i am trying to achieve is this: 192.168.1.10 is virtual machine on server on one location which can't have any downtime. But I need to do some maintenence on that server and I need to shut it down. On that other location (2.0 subnet) I have another server which could host it.
11:50 <+catphish> also, seriously, fix the software :)
11:50 < Emperorpenguin> best way to do it: DNS with double A record
11:50 <+catphish> hardcoded IPs isn't cool
11:50 < Emperorpenguin> oops can't do that
11:50 <+catphish> so, it comes down to NAT
11:50 <+catphish> not much choice
11:50 < Emperorpenguin> can you dynamically announce the subnet from different sites?
11:50 <+catphish> that's a terrible idea
11:51 < Emperorpenguin> or NAT yes
11:51 <+catphish> you could make the subnet appear in both locations with proxy arp, but its way too messy
11:51 <+catphish> hopefully NAT will work with less mess
11:52 < djph> there are always maintenance windows ...
11:52 < detha> just stand up a temporary VM in location 1, with the IP of the original server, and either DNAT or an L3 proxy to location 2
11:53 <+catphish> yep, though the router can probably do it without needing to make a VM
11:53 < markeczzz> Well, I am gonna try with NAT.. first with some test vm :) Thx guys
11:53 <+catphish> good luck
12:02 < ljc> i've got a tp-link d930 and i'm trying to get my gl inet mini router to connect to it. I plug in the ethernet cord to the LAN port of the tplink but the mini router can't connect
12:04 < djph> can't connect to ... what?
12:04 < ljc_> oops, back
12:04 < ljc_> djph: can't get internet
12:04 < djph> what port are you using on the "mini router"?
12:04 < ljc_> not sure if it's a dhcp thing
12:05 < ljc_> WAN
12:05 < djph> and the TP-Link LAN is ???? subnet, the mini-router is ???? subnet?
12:06 < ljc_> as in the IP's?
12:06 < djph> hm, probably should've used something other than '????'
12:06 < djph> yeah
12:06 < ljc_> TP link is 192.168.1.1
12:06 < ljc_> mini router is 192.168.8.1
12:07 < djph> and mini's WAN is something like 192.168.1.x (right)?
12:08 < ljc_> possibly, i'm not sure
12:08 < ljc_> actually my other pc just got 192.168.8.140 from the mini router
12:08 < djph> okay, so a computer plugged into the mini router gets 8.x from the mini router.  Can it ping 8.1?  if yes, can it ping 1.1?
12:10 < ljc_> yep, laptop can connect to mini router (192.168.8.1), but can't ping tplink (192.168.1.1) "destination net unreachable"
12:11 < djph> check the mini router that it's properly performing NAT on the outbound (and its WAN interface is actually getting an IP in the 1.0/24 network)
12:14 < ljc_> i'm not sure how to do either of those
12:14 < ljc_> i'm trying to check logs on both but the tplink interface isn't the best
12:15 < ljc_> glinet is running busybox and can't find the logs i need
12:15 < ljc_> ifconfig on the minirouter shows no allocated IP
12:19 < djph> is the TP-link running a DHCP server?
12:21 < ljc_> yea, i can see 2 IPs. one is this computer i'm typing on, and the other i'm not sure what it is (the MAC doesn't match the minirouter)
12:21 < ljc_> ^ from the TPlink router's DHCP page
12:22 < djph> then re-configure the whatsit (and triple-check the ports ;) ) to pull an IP via DHCP (or maybe just reboot it)
12:23 < ljc_> hm yea i'll pull the plug
12:35 < purplex88> is access point always / often means wireless?
12:40 < regdude> purplex88: depends on what you mean by Wireless. If you mean WiFi, then no, there are different standards as well where the name AP is used. For Ethernet there are Access Ports
12:43 < purplex88> when you create a network, why do you need an access point?
12:44 < purplex88> local network (no internet)
12:44 < grawity> I guess it's a central place to decide on the frequency, handle authentication and key-exchange, etc.
12:45 < grawity> there *are* Wi-Fi modes without an AP (adhoc/IBSS, and recently mesh), they're just not nearly as common
12:46 < shtrb|laptop> purplex88, an AP is like a Wireless Access Point ("antenna") , an entry point for wireless communication into your network
12:46 < shtrb|laptop> *:Antenna: in mobile phone network
13:04 < purplex88> and i'm seeing a gateway hardware.
13:04 < purplex88> i thought gateway was simply an ip address
13:05 < shtrb|laptop> I'm oversimpilifying that
13:16 < Apachez> QSFP+ 40G SR4 MMF modules, they dont work with LC only MTP/MPO right?
13:17 < Apachez> https://efail.de/
13:27 < ljc_> usually connecting ethernet is ezpz and it just works
13:28 < pagios> hi
13:29 < pagios> hi anyone understands STUN correctly?
13:29 < shtrb|laptop> !ask
13:30 < djph> purplex88: a "gateway" is essentially another name for a router (now, "residential gateways" muddy the waters a bit, since they're a router / switch / wifi AP / sometimes a modem all-in-one)
13:32 < purplex88> djph: in my campus, i saw a big giant hardware they were calling "gateway"
13:33 <+catphish> does anyone know how sms peering works? like if i want to send an sms to someone on a different network, how do i do it?
13:33 < purplex88> what was that
13:34 < djph> catphish: open "messaging", write in phone number, done :D
13:34 < djph> purplex88: and?
13:34 < shtrb|laptop> purplex88, a gateway is an entity between two or more domains
13:35 < purplex88> djph: what was it for, why was it that big?
13:35 <+catphish> maybe every operator who does sms has bilateral agreements with every other operator, but i'd hoped there was an easier way
13:35 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, local or international ? with or without roaming ?
13:35 <+catphish> shtrb|laptop: i was thinking international, no roaming
13:35 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, there are local agrements (region/ bileteral) and bics for international (need an agrement too )
13:36 < detha> catphish: operators have agreements. If you want to send straight, you have to have a link into each operators' SMSC
13:36 < djph> purplex88: connecting mutiple networks.  They needed tons of ports (NOTE that if it's cisco or other "expensive" grade gear, you can usually pretty easily swap ports between "switched" and "routed")
13:36 <+catphish> what i likely need is an operator who already has the arrangements in place and would host my numbers for me
13:36 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, you have white list way (via BICS for example) and you have inter operator agrement
13:37 <+catphish> but i wondered how it worked
13:37 < shtrb|laptop> on a physical level (data) - you have via ftp , SMPP , email to SMSC and others
13:37 < shtrb|laptop> (delivery)
13:37 < detha> same as calls, operators have agreements to terminat each others' calls
13:37 < shtrb|laptop> and there is the old fashioned way via SS&
13:37 < shtrb|laptop> SS7
13:38 < djph> purplex88: generally the TCO of say a "chassis-based" device is less than the equivalent number of ports on individual switches/routers.
13:38 < shtrb|laptop> SS7 / SIGTRAN
13:38 <+catphish> shtrb|laptop: thanks, ideally i'd want SMPP (since i don't have any SS7 links yet)
13:38 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, Are you an operator ?
13:38 < shtrb|laptop> or a customer ?
13:38 <+catphish> shtrb|laptop: yes, operator
13:38 <+catphish> shtrb|laptop: but would i need to peer with every operator in the world individually?
13:39 <+catphish> becuse that is likely impractical, we're way too small
13:39 < shtrb|laptop> there are different SMPP ways, not all operators confront the protocol (and SMPP is LIVE and not disconnected mode)
13:39 < purplex88> djph: a gateway connects all devices?
13:39 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, check how you can work with BICS (or any other provider)
13:39 <+catphish> when you said FTP, did you actually mean FTP, as in, transfer a batch of messages... by FTP?!
13:39 < shtrb|laptop> yes
13:39 <+catphish> that's terrifying :)
13:40 < djph> purplex88: a gateway gets you between networks.
13:40 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, there is an SMS ove FTP , each file is put on a special internal network and then taken from it
13:40 < shtrb|laptop> and there is SMS in SIP
13:41 < djph> e.g. 192.0.2.0/24 to 198.51.100.0/24
13:41 <+catphish> shtrb|laptop: looks like perhaps the best approach would be to use BICS and have them host my numbers
13:41 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, do not trust one example given over IRC , you need to check all your options
13:42 <+catphish> shtrb|laptop: :) indeed
13:42 < purplex88> djph: but all are wires coming from all devices connect to gateway?
13:42 <+catphish> shtrb|laptop: negotiating direct peering with every provider seems implausible though, regardless of the protocol used
13:43 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, yes and no , many operator create peering agrement with a local already peer (for a nice fee)
13:43 < shtrb|laptop> you can sign with BT for example and they will deliver your SMS to intenrational dests
13:43 < djph> purplex88: ultimately.  Most of the time end hosts are patched into a switch ... which in turn is patched into a gateway
13:44 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, depdening or your destinations check what are the big players near the hub (and have more then one route !)
13:44 <+catphish> shtrb|laptop: that makes sense, so just sign up with one (or perhaps more) peers who are essentially transit providers
13:44 < purplex88> so basically all switches and routers will all connect to gateway
13:45 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, but prepare for a LONG process
13:45 < mAniAk-_-> purplex88: a router is in general a gateway
13:45 <+catphish> shtrb|laptop: i'd be happy enough if i could just find one provider who i could pay to do it for me
13:46 < purplex88> i want to see a topology where a separate gateway hardware and access point harware is used with all switches and routers
13:46 <+catphish> but thought it was worth understanding the process too
13:46 < pagios> does STUN only work with udp?
13:46 < mAniAk-_-> purplex88: a gateway isnt one specific thing, it has different meanings
13:46 < pagios> or tcp
13:47 < pagios> STUN works: o mainly you are saying, clientA opens a connection to stun using UDP port 12345, now stun tells client your ip is 1.1.1.1 and u are using 12345, keep that port open and if i get a request for you i will pass these info to clientB. so clientB asks for it and connects to 1.1.1.1 and port 12345?
13:47 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, there SMS sellers locally
13:49 < shtrb|laptop> *There are SMS sellers (service providers in your region that will do the SMS delivery for you) , but consider the need for MMS and RCE
13:49 < djph> purplex88: okay ... ERL (router/gateway), plugged into an ES-16, with two or three UAP-AC-LITE.  There ya go.
13:49 < shtrb|laptop> *RCS
13:50 < shtrb|laptop> pagios, did you seriusly used CF ip in your system ?!
13:50 < shtrb|laptop> CloudFlare
13:51 < djph> I think he's trying to use 1.1.1.1 as an example
13:51 < pagios> whats cf?
13:51 < shtrb|laptop> or he is from AT&T
13:51 < pagios> tea
13:51 < djph> shtrb|laptop: er, what?
13:51 < shtrb|laptop> facepalm
13:52 < shtrb|laptop> djph, AT&T took over by mistake 1.1.1.1
13:52 < djph> oops
13:52 < shtrb|laptop> "mistake"
13:52 <+catphish> shtrb|laptop: thanks
13:52 < pagios> ..........
13:52 < shtrb|laptop> catphish, np and good luck
13:54 < shtrb|laptop> djph, https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/05/att-is-blocking-cloudflares-privacy-focused-dns-calls-it-an-accident/
13:55 < regdude> dear god
13:56 < regdude> Arris 5268AC gateway "has been assigned 1.1.1.1 on an internal interface."
13:58 < djph> SOME cisco stuff did the same in the past
13:58 < djph> least I think it was Cisco ... either way, was first-time setup or a guest portal
13:59 < regdude> yes, even cisco...
13:59 < liveuser1> hey
13:59 < shtrb|laptop> I trust cisco to do an error, AT&T not
14:00 < liveuser1> a little much ironic doncha think?
14:00 < shtrb|laptop> why ?
14:00 < liveuser1> shtrb|laptop: do an error?
14:00 < shtrb|laptop> I meant that If they said it was an error, I trust it was not malicous activity
14:00 < NotsoRoyal> what's donki
14:01 < regdude> most probably left it there from testing or initial config
14:01 < liveuser1> ljc: partner?
14:01 < liveuser1> yeah shtrb|laptop the game is going
14:01 < liveuser1> it is dropping "red herrings" all over
14:02 < liveuser1> it is reading my text notes and then making it look silly to outsiders
14:02 < shtrb|laptop> liveuser1, https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/att-have-you-no-shame/
14:02 < liveuser1> by dropping "red herrings"
14:02 < liveuser1> is hitman on?
14:03 < liveuser1> If I trace the dev can I count on you to perform a lawful execution?
14:03 < liveuser1> The dev knows my requirment of knowledge is high, the dev knows I am it's judge.
14:03 < liveuser1> The execution is not your doing only by agency.
14:04 < liveuser1> You perform a lawful execution and do you require a fee?
14:04 < liveuser1> It is an instant indulgence in service of the LORD
14:04 < shtrb|laptop> sudo chmod +x ?
14:05 < liveuser1> hitman talk on ssh
14:05 < liveuser1> the thing has been going for a long time with "zodiac killer " intelligent methodology
14:06 < liveuser1> there are worse crimes than murder
14:06 < liveuser1> see Book of Jude
14:06 < liveuser1> and Michael commanded Satan "LORD rebuke you"
14:09 < djph> thank the gods for /ignore.
14:10 < shtrb|laptop> djph, ignore works for non pms ?
14:10 <+xand> yes...
14:11 <+catphish> remember that 1.1.1.1 is experimental, it's a well known unusable address
14:12 <+catphish> so these incidents of it breaking will not be isolated, but it does seem to be going ok, apart from the amount of junk it probably receives
14:13 < Epic|> Wonder how much their load surged following announcement
14:14 <+catphish> "While Huston has yet to analyse any of the junk traffic in this new experiment, he said that it can still be measured in multiple gigabits per second."
14:18 < Marc_One> hello. i have a problem with an ssh reverse tunnel. i can do "ssh -N -R *:4430:somelanmachine:22 user@server". but i cant do "ssh -N -R *:4430:localhost:22 user@server".
14:19 <+catphish> do you get an error?
14:19 < light> are you confused over which machine localhost refers to?
14:19 <+catphish> that should definitely work
14:20 < Epic|> Haha @ multiple gigs
14:21 <+catphish> Marc_One: the error should shed some light on it, i assume you understand that localhost is your local machine, obviously a remote forward to a remote localhost would be pointless :)
14:21 < Marc_One> no. no error. i have a openvpn server on the machine that is supposed to tunnel. but i get no connection. ssh also doesnt work. but when i specify another machine on my network i can ssh and open the website of my router.
14:22 <+catphish> no error? well what happend?
14:22 <+catphish> *happens
14:22 <+catphish> i'm pretty confused by the question now, must get back to work anyway
14:23 < Marc_One> ok. sad
14:24 < Scroto> What's a good online course for computer networking?
14:25 < liveuser1> another dark joke?
14:25 < liveuser1> scroto
14:26 < djph> Marc_One: something doesn't look right there.  But I can't put my finger on it
14:26 < detha> catphish: before you get too involved in iscsi again, could we have a +q on that account please?
14:26 < light> he probably doesn't know what he's trying to do
14:27 < Scroto> liveuser1: It's not :)
14:27 < Marc_One> i want to acces a openvpn server from outside, because i have carrier grade nat.
14:28 < djph> ssh -N -R port:localhost:22 user@jumphost <-- should mean that ultimately, ssh -p port localhost  (on the jumphost) returns you to the mai...
14:28 < djph> wait what?
14:28 < liveuser1> Scroto: all of these nicks
14:28 < liveuser1> Scroto: trying to blend in with the deranged minds?
14:28 <+catphish> detha: why do i have to be the bad guy?
14:28 < Scroto> liveuser1: It's literally just a handle, man. There's nothing deranged about it.
14:28 < detha> catphish: because you haven't give me ops
14:29 < detha> *given
14:29 < liveuser1> Scroto: what do you desire?
14:29 < djph> reverse ssh won't let you connect to an openvpn server (well, I mean, you'll get ssh access to the box, but that's not the same thing as "connected to the VPN")
14:29 < djph> I think I'm misunderstanding something though
14:29 < liveuser1> Give me 10% of your paycheck and I can manage you.
14:30 <+catphish> go mad, but not too mad, or i get in trouble
14:30 < light> can't believe that worked
14:30 < light> well played
14:30 < liveuser1> Scroto: networking job?
14:30 < liveuser1> Is that what yer looking for?
14:31 < Marc_One> let me explain: i have a vserver and want to tunnel reverse so that port 4430 on my vserver is sent to port 1194 of my host at home, where the openvpn server runs.
14:32 < djph> ssh != ovpn.  Unless ovpn is listening on a different port, this isn't gonna work.
14:32 < light> Marc_One: why not do the reverse?
14:32 < light> Marc_One: if you set the VPN up on the vserver you can have the client at home connect out to establish the link
14:32 < light> LAN to LAN
14:32 < Marc_One> sorry the port is 1194 and not 22. with 22 i wanted to test if ssh is working, but it also does not.
14:32 < djph> or reverse-ssh from home to the vserver on the internet.
14:33 < Scroto> liveuser1: Something like that, my dude
14:33 < djph> e.g. ssh -N -R 11900:localhost:22 user@vserver
14:33 < djph> then ssh into vserver later, and ssh -p 11900 localhost (perhaps homeuser@localhost, i forget offhand)
14:35 < Marc_One> the curios thing is: when i specify some machine on my home network like ssh -N -R *:4430:somemachine:22 user@server it works as i expected
14:37 < djph> you mean that from "user@server" later on, you can 'ssh somemachine -p 4430' and it works?
14:37 < djph> err 'ssh -p 4430 somemachine'
14:39 < Marc_One> no i can "ssh user@<ip-of-my-vserver> -p4430" and have a working ssh to <somemachine>. th same with "ssh -N -R *:4430:localhost:22 user@server" does not work and i cant get no connection weather ssh, hhtp or openvpn
14:40 < liveuser1> Marc_One: is there  "known good"?
14:41 < Marc_One> what is "known good"?
14:42 < Marc_One> forgot to say: i of course modify the port to whatever service i want to use.
14:42 < liveuser1> in science it is called a control
14:42 <@detha> liveuser1: could you please stop with the random nonsense?
14:42 < liveuser1> "known good" something to compare with for identifying the prob;e,
14:43 < liveuser1> Marc_One: somds like unknown filters
14:44 < liveuser1> Marc_One: something like a warzone
14:44 < liveuser1> I haven't been able to make a connection to some ssh server for months now
14:45 < liveuser1> has it been years?
14:46 < Scroto> Can anyone suggest me a good online course for computer networking?
14:46 < djph> Marc_One: that doesn't make any sense.  ssh -p 4430 user@server SHOULD NOT WORK, given that "othermachine" is not listening.
14:46 < liveuser1> if you are surrounded by hive whores where do you thing business which fits within society is going to lead
14:47 < liveuser1> you read about sodom didn't you?
14:47 < Marc_One> it works. there is a sshd running on somemachine:22
14:47 < liveuser1> what happened to all of those people
14:48 < liveuser1> Marc_One: yeah ssh works here on my own machine but try connecting past the first hop
14:49 < djph> the only way that could possibly work is if 'server' and 'somemachine' were on the same segment (or you could route between them)
14:51 < ShotokanZH> hi everyone
14:52 < Marc_One> server is somewhere on the internet. public routeable. and somemachine is behind nat.
14:52 < djph> reverse ssh syntax is "listenport:listenhost:mylisten user@remotehost"
14:53 < ShotokanZH> I've created a system that gives a random username & passwords combination for a guest user to connect to the guest wifi network.
14:53 < liveuser1> Marc_One: does openssh hold it's own implimentation of ssl?
14:53 < liveuser1> It looks like many softwars have builtin ssl
14:54 < ShotokanZH> I was trying to see if there was any simple way to share 'em and I thought about QRCodes
14:54 < djph> then from remotehost, connecting to "listenport/listenhost" gets you to the host that initiated the reverse connection
14:54 < djph> ShotokanZH: button or something to print it on a label / recepit paper
14:54 < ShotokanZH> sadly it seems that QRCodes does not allow to connect to a Wifi-enterprise network
14:54 < djph> (or well, probably generate -> then print)
14:55 < ShotokanZH> djph, yep but people here are already complaining about "waste of paper!!!" and such
14:55 < Marc_One> no. connecting to remotehost:listenport gets you to listenhost:mylisten
14:57 < Marc_One> i need a smoke.
14:58 < djph> Marc_One: no.  If you run the command "ssh -N -R 11900:localhost:22 user@remotehost", you create a tunnel on the remotehost (listening to THAT localhost, port 11900), that points back at whatever host initiated that reverse session.
14:58 < regdude> ShotokanZH: android phones allows to scan NFC to connect to WiFi, but you are probably looking for full compatibility
14:59 <@detha> djph: seems more like it connects a listener on remotehost:11900 that connects to 127.0.0.1 on that same remote host
14:59 < djph> detha: except that's not what ssh -R does
15:00 < ShotokanZH> regdude, yep, for a simple WPA2 it's ok, but for a WPA2-enterprise (ssid, username & password) it does not work.
15:01 < ShotokanZH> regdude, the only reference i found about connecting to a WPA2 Enterprise network was here: http://www.glassappsource.com/google-glass-how-to/connect-enterprise-wpa-network-google-glass.html and it still does not work
15:03 < regdude> ShotokanZH: maybe you can connect to hotspot? You could print a QR code and opens a URL that would send the password, but for security reasons it must be HTTPS
15:03 <@detha> djph: ah right, it resolves on giving the command, so localhost ends up at the host setting up the tunnel.
15:05 <+catphish> detha: for clarity: -R creates a tcp server on the ssh server that connects through to a tcp client on the ssh client
15:05 < liveuser1> ssh is throwing "Connection timed out
15:06 < liveuser1> there's something funny about it though
15:06 < liveuser1> the connection connects from some places and not others
15:06 < liveuser1> and many times the connection interrupts
15:06 < liveuser1> say after the first interruptuion
15:07 < liveuser1> the key is taken
15:07 < liveuser1> then the connection is lost potentially forever
15:07 < liveuser1> and somebody pretends to be you
15:07 < liveuser1> on some ssh server
15:07 < light> say no to drugs :/
15:07 < at0m> the key is taken? public key is public.
15:08 < at0m> doesn't matter if anyone takes it.
15:08 < liveuser1> why doesn't anybody comprehend the importance of an unbroken chain of changing the key
15:08 < regdude> ShotokanZH: seems to be a weird limitation for 802.1x, but some vendors seems to support captive portals with QR codes, found Zyxel
15:08 < liveuser1> at0m: what do you mean doesn't matter
15:08 < liveuser1> say it is a password
15:08 <+catphish> it's not
15:08 < liveuser1> key/password
15:09 < at0m> liveuser1: a key is *not* a password
15:09 < ShotokanZH> regdude, thank you my dear
15:09 < shtrb|laptop> xand, should ignore hide messages put on a channel for example ?
15:09 < liveuser1> same arguments against sanity over and over
15:09 < liveuser1> the key isn't any different than a long password
15:09 < at0m> liveuser1: no. a key belongs to a *keypair*
15:09 <+xand> shtrb|laptop: yes though it's a client command so up to client
15:09 < liveuser1> if the asci text file allows access
15:10 < liveuser1> may as well be a long password
15:10 < at0m> only the private key can decrypt what has been encrypted with the public key
15:10 < liveuser1> sure but they leave the private key sitting there
15:10 < liveuser1> so anybody can copy it
15:10 < at0m> liveuser1: maybe read a little on symmetric and asymmetric encryption.
15:10 < liveuser1> we dont beleive in locking doors
15:11 < liveuser1> and when we do we think hey leave windows open
15:11 < djph> detha: yeah ... honestly, it's a bit brain-bendy when you're looking at it :)
15:11 < regdude> ShotokanZH: seems to be possible with devices called MikroTik, does not seem to be a popular feature across many vendors, but all of them require you to use captive portals
15:12 < liveuser1> at0m: yeah?
15:12 < liveuser1> at0m: if I read are you going to meetup and perform it with I
15:13 < liveuser1> if the key is created in a led box and then pulled from the machine and locked in another led box fine
15:13 < liveuser1> worth encrypting
15:13 < liveuser1> all of this generate long ascii strings and leave it sit on the machine is useless
15:14 < liveuser1> there was something about changing the pemission of the private key
15:14 < liveuser1> reasonable
15:14 < liveuser1> but not secure
15:16 < liveuser1> at0m: maybe send the win32 pgp binaries with source for dcc ANALYSIS
15:16 < liveuser1> may as well do hand cyphers
15:16 < liveuser1> and with such reasonability maybe rot13
15:17 < liveuser1> reasonable
15:17 < liveuser1> I am near the dragon network
15:18 < liveuser1> I can recall each point at which it expanded and likely entrypoints
15:18 < light> weren't you op'd to quiet this tit?
15:19 < liveuser1> most of all of this started on win32
15:19 < djph> ^
15:19 < liveuser1> windows xp
15:20 < liveuser1> which is why I ask for the pgp binaries
15:26 < mawk> hi
15:26 < mawk> what is the purpose of marking a route as deprecated ?
15:26 < mawk> an address, sorry
15:27 < Phil-Work> mawk, in what context? :S
15:27 < mawk> if I mark an address as deprecated then add a secondary address, the second one doesn't overcome the first, even though the first is deprecated
15:27 < mawk> in the context of linux interfaces
15:28 < mawk> I mark the primary address as deprecated with ip addr add 127.5.0.1 dev dummy0 preferred_lft 0
15:28 < mawk> missing the /16 sorry
15:29 < mawk> then add a secondary address with ip addr add 127.5.0.2/16 dev dummy0 noprefixroute, that new address is marked as secondary but it's not deprecated
15:29 < mawk> still, the preferred source address stays 127.5.0.1 for that interface
15:29 <@detha> I vaguely remember something about 'no new connections using that address, but it can still be used for existing connections'
15:30 < mAniAk-_-> mawk: man file says its v6 only?
15:30 <@detha> more in the context of changing ipv6 privacy address though
15:30 < mawk> ah maybe it's v6 only yeah
15:34 < mawk> I'm still search for the holy grail in order to find the preferred address for an interface
15:34 < mawk> the best I've got so far is the programmatic equivalent of ip route get 0 oif $IFACE
15:34 < mawk> if the result isn't an error of 127.0.0.1, that is the preferred source ip
15:35 < mawk> an error or*
15:37 < king_button> If I put a database in the 'cloud', how do I protect myself from data loss in the case of disk failure?
15:39 < king_button> I mean, I'm guessing most people use RAID. Do cloud providers have RAID?
15:39 < Aeso> king_button, if you're putting your data in the 'cloud', you're essentially paying someone else to solve that problem for you
15:40 < djph> ^
15:40 < shtrb|laptop> "solve" ,
15:40 < Aeso> you should still keep backups though, of course
15:40 < shtrb|laptop> king_button, you don't, you hope it will be ok
15:47 < SporkWitch> king_button: the cloud is not magical, it's just other people's computers.  It doesn't solve anything, it just shifts blame and responsibility.  You pay for the privilege of praying they're competent.
15:47 < djph> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
15:47 < djph> (and hint: they're not :) )
15:47 < Apachez> and when you read the eula/terms of service you see that the cloud provider have no warranty whatsoever that your data will be accessible to you
15:48 < SporkWitch> it's a brilliant scam, really :P
15:48 < regdude> someone here a long time ago said: there is no such thing as clouds, only other people's computer
15:48 < shtrb|laptop> oh they are competent, and they are good, they have covered themselvs from losses and you pay for that
15:49 < djph> SporkWitch: actually, I think many of them have a "best effort, but if the place gets nuked" tupe clause -- i.e. you may not get it today or tomorrow (when you absolutely want it), but we'll get it back to you eventually
15:49 < SporkWitch> regdude: in the sense that people refer to "the cloud" or "cloud [thing]" that's correct; "the cloud" used to be a useful meta-object: its anything that we don't care about how it works
15:49 < shtrb|laptop> I have seen a doc that showed, the 100 mbps plan, one some page it says minimum speed is 0.01 mbps
15:49 < SporkWitch> djph: you mean Apachez
15:49 < djph> SporkWitch: fuck, indeed I do
16:05 < pagios> any interesting video on the web to really understand sip ?
16:06 < dminuoso> pagios: No.
16:06 < dminuoso> There are no interestings videos about SIP because there's absolutely nothing interesting about SIP. It was designed with two things in mind:
16:07 < dminuoso> Come up with some lose standard that everybody implements differently, with everybody making their own additions. And beer.
16:07 < dminuoso> The only way to truly appreciate SIP is to be wasted as to not feel the pain.
16:09 < shtrb|laptop> There are RFC, which you implement, and RFC have some option fields
16:09 < shtrb|laptop> so if one implment one and not the other is not implementing "different"
16:09 < shtrb|laptop> *there are RFCs
16:12 < Aeso> shtrb|laptop, that seems like a cop-out answer though. Sometimes the required components of the RFC are so vague that implementation inter-op is almost guaranteed to fail without coordination. (see XMPP, SIP, etc) To me, these RFCs fail to provide any value.
16:13 < Aeso> sorry, so limited* not necessarily vague
16:13 < shtrb|laptop> Aeso , I guess I was lucky enough not to get hit by that yet
16:15 < shtrb|laptop> Aeso, having handled with incorrect implementation (like considering optional elements illigal or fully incorrect implmentation ) but not as described before
17:02 < RaptorJesus> how do ipv6?
17:16 < djph> RaptorJesus: ?
17:18 < AlexPortable> What's the best way to exclude devices from internet access while still allowing LAN access?
17:18 <+xand> firewall
17:18 <+xand> on router
17:18 < AlexPortable> and how to identify the device?
17:19 < djph> IP reservation
17:21 < AlexPortable> what prevents the device from getting another IP?
17:21 < shtrb|laptop> reservation
17:22 < shtrb|laptop> you setup the ip in the router (static lease )
17:23 < tds> if you want to make it more secure, isolate it at layer 2 (eg on a separate vlan), then firewall that interface's subnet
17:24 < AlexPortable> But how would other devices access that vlan?
17:24 < AlexPortable> vlanA (normal internet access + LAN access), vlanB (only LAN access). how would a device on vlanA access the device on vlanB ?
17:25 < tds> via the router (where you can firewall traffic between the subnets)
17:27 < AlexPortable> hm so i first need a router that supports that
17:28 < tonsofpcs> hihi
17:29 < djph> yes.  If your router doesn't do VLANs, it's a fairly good bet it also won't do egress filtering
17:31 < AlexPortable> my switch does vlans
17:31 < djph> does your switch *route* though
17:32 < djph> further, does your router allow you to set static routes, so you can access that VLAN in the first place?
17:32 < SporkWitch> (point being that switches are typically layer 2, and routing is a layer 3 concept)
17:33 < djph> SporkWitch: oh come on, let's take this one step at a time.
17:34 < SporkWitch> i was just expanding / clarifying what you were getting at
17:34 < djph> SporkWitch: mind a PM?
17:35 < AlexPortable> router supports basically nothing, except IP filtering
17:36 < AlexPortable> hm i might be able to use that
17:36 < djph> scrap it for something that'll do what you need ...
17:38 < AlexPortable> how do i know what that is
17:38 < AlexPortable> most i can find is only custom firmware (dd-wrt), but that often won't work with hardware nat
17:38 < djph> scrap the soho brand, and get something like 'tik or UBNT
17:39 < SporkWitch> while there's impressive stuff out there, SOHO isn't really designed for multiple subnets
17:39 < AlexPortable> SOHO?
17:40 < SporkWitch> https://lmgtfy.com/?s=d&q=what+is+soho+router
17:40 < djph> "small office / home office" -- e.g. your typical consumerist stuff at walmart (or local equivalent(
17:40 < shtrb|laptop> AlexPortable, what you got from your ISP
17:41 < tonsofpcs> I have a device sending UDP unicast across a network over 3 switches, those switches have other switches hanging off of them too but shouldn't be passing that traffic to them
17:41 < AlexPortable> and 'tik ?
17:41 < tonsofpcs> the traffic is showing up on those spur switches though - what am I missing to make this stop?
17:42 < djph> AlexPortable: 'mikrotik' (one of several "better than consumer, yet not break-the-bank expensive" brands)
17:43 < tonsofpcs> mikrotik stuff is great.  You just need to learn their language and the nuance between their different devices.  VLANs make my head hurt in tik land but they work fine once set.
17:43 < djph> tonsofpcs: the path between hosts A-B is on switches 1,2,3; right
17:43 < tonsofpcs> djph - right.  A-1-2-3-B
17:43 < AlexPortable> language? no web interface/
17:43 < tonsofpcs> but 5 6 and 7 are each connected (respectively) to 1 2 and 3 and are seeing the traffic
17:43 < SporkWitch> djph: i usually make a distinction between SOHO and garbage-you-sell-grandma
17:44 < djph> tonsofpcs: that SHOULD work as you've described then.  You're not using STP or anything, that might be changing the route.
17:44 < detha> tonsofpcs: destination MAC is indeed unicast, not ffff or some multicast address?
17:44 < tonsofpcs> detha: let me check the wireshark dump to be sure.  Devices are set by IP in their menus.
17:44 < djph> AlexPortable: "language" as in they call a field "whatevername" but say Linksys calls it something else.
17:45 < djph> SporkWitch: it's all the same garbage
17:45 < tonsofpcs> MAC appears in src and dst for the ethernet frame at B.
17:46 < SporkWitch> djph: it's not; there is a clear line
17:46 < tonsofpcs> there is no alternative route - switches are all cascaeded with spurs, no loops or similar
17:46 < djph> SporkWitch: fine "SOHO garbage these people will actually buy" and "stuff that's so bad we have to get ISPs to install it for us"
17:47 < detha> tonsofpcs: managed or unmanaged switches? i.e., can you look at the switch's mac-to-port tables?
17:47 < AlexPortable> how do i know which brands are not soho? levelone, mikrotik, ubiquiti .. ?
17:47 < tonsofpcs> detha: managed, HPe
17:47 < tonsofpcs> let me start at switch 1 and take a look
17:48 < detha> see where the switch thinks that destination mac is.... or if someone has been playing with l33t tools to overflow its tables
17:48 < djph> AlexPortable: if it's available in your local walmart (or equivalent) - it's lowend / meant for the masses, and likely will not support anything more complex than "the WAN comes in this port, and these four ports are the LAN ... maybe some wifi"
17:49 < AlexPortable> no idea if it's available, i'm shopping online
17:49 < tonsofpcs> hmmm... the first switch shows the src mac but not dest...
17:50 < djph> AlexPortable: my point is, if it's something carried by walmart (or similar "cheap stuff megastore"), it's a very good bet it won't do what you need.
17:50 < AlexPortable> yes, but i dont know what brands they sell there
17:50 < detha> tonsofpcs: is that traffic only going one way, no replies from B ?
17:50 < djph> brands include, but are not limited to Linksys, TP-Link, Netgear, D-Link, Belkin, others who I'm definitely forgetting
17:50 < detha> have B ping A, see if B's mac appears in switch 1
17:50 < tonsofpcs> detha: yes.  UDP unicast.  only other thing I know this device replies to is pings.
17:51 < tonsofpcs> s/other //
17:51 < detha> ping it from B, see if the traffic disappears off the spurs
17:51 < tonsofpcs> oh, I can't issue a ping from B, it's an embedded device
17:52 < detha> ehm, ping A from something attached to the same switch as B ?
17:52 < SporkWitch> djph: the asus ones are actually very impressive :)
17:53 < tonsofpcs> done, no change in mac table...
17:54 < tonsofpcs> still going off to a spur
17:55 < detha> damn, I was thinking the wrong way around. Have to get B's MAC in there somewhere.
17:55 < detha> Ehm, ping B from A ?
17:55 < tonsofpcs> ok, switched B to be 'transmitting' to A, then switched it back
17:55 < tonsofpcs> it's now in the table
17:56 < detha> so now traffic should disappear off the spurs?
17:56 < tonsofpcs> and looks like traffic is dropping (I won't know for sure for 5 minutes... silly hp rates being a 5 minute weighted average)
17:57 < tonsofpcs> I guess I need to put a request in to the manufacturer of this box to send a UDP reply of some kind when it receives a connection...
17:58 < detha> or let it do gratuitous ARP once in a while. In the meantime, if it responds to pings, just pinging it from A once per minute or so should work
17:59 < tonsofpcs> well, I can't ping it from A, A is an embedded device, I suppose I could set up another device on switch 1 to ping them all continuously with repetition every 1 minute or somesuch but that feels dirty
17:59 < tonsofpcs> thanks for the solution finding help :)
17:59 < detha> np. what are these, as a matter of interest?
18:00 < tonsofpcs> unless maybe if I switch to RTP that it would reply?
18:00 < pagios> stun works over udp right? the way it works is that clientA connects to a stun server asks for its ip and source port, and that connection creates a nat rule in the router in clientA side. now clientB wants to connect to clientA so it asks for this info from the stun and then clientB connects to public ip of clientA and the port in that natting table, routerA detects that the port is for clientA and formwards it inside to
18:00 < pagios> <pagios> the internal network? is this how it works?
18:00 < tonsofpcs> detha: they're serial (MPEG) data over IP converters, running about 20 Mbps.
18:00 < detha> RTP is still just one-way isn't it?
18:01 < tonsofpcs> it is, it's basically UDP with a bit of different overhead, I'm just curious if maybe that would make it show up in the ARP tables...
18:01 < tonsofpcs> my end goal is that the source devices will send out multicast and multiple receive devices but that requires even more ARP magic...
18:01 < tonsofpcs> err s/ARP/MAC
18:01 < detha> if traffic only goes one way, the MAC entry in the switch will time out in 5 minutes (or whatever it is set to)
18:02 < tonsofpcs> whelp, the mac entry timed out, let me switch them to rtp and see if it appears.
18:04 < tonsofpcs> mac appears with RTP!
18:04 < tonsofpcs> and I get error correction :D
18:11 < AlexPortable> Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X any good?
18:11 < compdoc> Ive heard people say they like those. I build my own
18:12 < AlexPortable> or better mikrotik routerboard 751
18:16 < detha> ER-X has a more solid feel to it, 751 will do the job too. For neither expect 1Gb/s linespeed with complicated routing/firewalls
18:17 < grawity> RB751 seems kinda meh compared to RB951G
18:18 < AlexPortable> what linespeed am i looking at with those devices?
18:18 < SporkWitch> look up the specs
18:18 < AlexPortable> the specs say 1 Gbps
18:18 < detha> 751 is cheap, and basic. Throughput? 'It Depends(tm)' Anything hitting the CPU, and you slow it down.
18:19 < grawity> for routing, or for switching?
18:19 < AlexPortable> Data/PoE Input Port (1) 10/100/1000 RJ45 Port, Data Ports (3) 10/100/1000 RJ45 Ports, Data/PoE Passthrough Port (1) 10/100/1000 RJ45 Port
18:21 < SporkWitch> AlexPortable: reading the specs doesn't require reading them back to us
18:22 < AlexPortable> well that's all it says
18:22 < khelpw> Hey, I've already asked in #juniper, but does anyone here know offhand or have a KB regarding the version path for JunOS on an SRX340, coming from like version 15.1x49-D35?
18:27  * SporkWitch mutters something about the _upgrade_ path being juniper → anything else
18:32 < AlexPortable> apparently the mikrotik rb2011uias also only has software nat
18:36 < ash_work> where can I find more specific information on the configuration options for dnsmasq?
18:36 < ash_work> specifically, I'm trying to find out more about `dhcp-match=set:`
18:36 < AlexPortable> #dnamasq
18:36 < AlexPortable> but then without the typo
18:38 < ash_work> AlexPortable: yeah... :\
18:38 < ash_work> AlexPortable: I had asked in there before you joined
18:38 < SporkWitch> ash_work: spamming multiple channels with the same question is typically frowned upon
18:39 < ash_work> SporkWitch: well, I don't really expect a response from #dnsmasq so 2 other channels isn't absurd, imo
18:40 < SporkWitch> it's not absurd, it's just poor etiquette
18:40 < SporkWitch> especially when at least one of those channels has NOTHING to do with your query
18:42 < ash_work> SporkWitch: I yield :)
18:45 < OlofL> Most modern wifi drivers will prefer 5GHz over 2,4GHz. But when do they prefer 5GHz? For example mcos and ios? Is it -X dBm better signal on 2,4 before they switch over?
18:49 < jsync> Hello. What's the most simple name server software for Debian systems?
18:49 < batterylow> Hi! Is there's any way I can know if a user is downloading something or not on a network, using any terminal command?
18:50 < shtrb|laptop> jsync, #debian
18:52 < shtrb|laptop> jsync, bind9 or Dnsmasq depending what is your poison
18:53 < jsync> Just simple to configure really would be adequate.
18:53 < lupine> for resolving names, unbound
18:53 < lupine> for serving dns, I'd use powerdns
18:55 < jsync> lupine, I think I need it for resolving names. I'm setting up an apache2 server on a local network & trying to find sites with the other machines on the local network.
18:55 < jsync> I'd like to use something simple. I can't believe that apache2 doesn't have a simple feature for that built into the software.
18:56 < shtrb|laptop> trying to find sites as in scanning the network for anything which listen on HTTP ?
18:57 < jsync> So, I made a osvl.org page & virtual host file & it's listed in my /var/www/ file folder & I open the internet browser within the other machines on the network & the page is not visible to those machines.
18:57 < SporkWitch> why would apache, a webserver, provide DNS?
18:58 < jsync> The point is, SporkWitch, I'm not sure why they would be separate.
18:59 < SporkWitch> because they're completely different things
18:59 < jsync> Alright, so I guess I need a simple dns software?
18:59 < SporkWitch> your router may very well provide it, if it's not complete shit
18:59 < jsync> I have a basic router.
19:00 < jsync> A software would be fine. Something easy to configure would be cool.
19:01 < SporkWitch> many routers provide their own DNS and can do hostname resolution locally; check, because if so it's only one or two settings: default dns to the router IP and sometimes setting a local TLD
19:02 < shtrb|laptop> jsync, man /etc/hosts
19:03 < shtrb|laptop> Most routers support DNS and register dhcp client names in DNS
19:03 < jsync> Has anybody setup a local repository? That's one of the things I am putting in my /var/www/ folder & it's not visible to the machines. I created a symlink, though it's returning "404 Not Found".
19:03 < shtrb|laptop> local repository of what ?
19:04 < jsync> local repository of debian files. It's a "mirror".
19:04 < shtrb|laptop> You should not really use symlinks in apache2 (outside of documentroot), and there are debian software to do so (apt-mirror but a better place for such question is #debian)
19:05 < jsync> The instructions that I found said, "download files > create symlink > list in sources > apt-get update", & it returns "404 Not Found".
19:05 < SporkWitch> jsync: #debian
19:05 < jsync> #debian for that question. Alrighty.
19:05 < jsync> :)
19:05 < SporkWitch> and you can specify your mirrors by ip instead of name
19:06 < shtrb|laptop> jsync, I have a nice manual for you , send shtrb|laptop you bank creds and a document saying you agree to transfer your credntials for him to do what ever he needs)
19:07 < shtrb|laptop> jsync, never trust such manuals that are not from the provider itself
19:32 < Janos> hey there, got a puzzling problem and need a bit of help, I have a Linux firewall with a couple of interfaces one internal and one external. The internal interface has ip 10.1.1.1 directly on the interface and then 3 more vlans on that same interface
19:33 < Janos> one of those vlans has a public ip address that connects to an internal dmz
19:34 < Janos> the actual issue here is that at some random point in time (happens often) google.com [172.217.3.78] stops working, if I ping it from my internal network I get a response from my firewall 10.1.1.1 ´Destination host unreachable´
19:35 < Janos> so ping 172.217.3.78 gives me destination host unreachable
19:36 < Janos> but I can ping every other ip on that network like 172.217.3.77 and 172.217.3.79 they all work
19:36 < Janos> also if I ping 172.217.3.78 from the firewall itself it works too
19:37 < Janos> also I can ping that ip from the other vlans like the dmz
19:37 < Janos> tcpdump sees the packet come in on the internal interface and sees the response from the firewall
19:38 < Janos> my take is there must be something been done on that internal network that the linux kernel is not liking, but no idea what
19:38 < jsync> Priori I go about installing this dnsmasq software & configuring it, I want to explain my goal & see if people within the forum agree that's what I need to install & use, if that's alright.
19:39 < Janos> maybe something like rp_filter or something like that, but I would like to find out what it is to fix it in that network
19:39 < Janos> any thoughts on the matter
19:40 < Janos> ?
19:40 < jsync> So, I have 3 machines connected to the LAN ports on my router. I have 1 machine that has apache2 software & I have internet pages listed within /var/www/ & I want to access those pages on the other machines connected to my router.
19:41 < detha> Janos: are you running anything like fail2ban that updates the firewall rules on the fly?
19:42 < ivanf> Hey all its my first time working with a server box. I'm trying to flash the Dell Perc H310 to IT mode
19:42 < ivanf> But having no luck
19:42 < ivanf> Followed every tut and its the same thing
19:42 < lupine> jsync: you can just use your isp-provided dns service for that
19:43 < jsync> lupine, it's just for a local network.
19:43 < Janos> detha, i´m not running fail2ban but you might be on to something, let me check the ruleset and see if that ip comes up somewhere
19:43 < lupine> right, but it must have internet access and that comes with the ability to make dns queries against a third-party dns server
19:43 < lupine> don't get me wrong, I love running my own stuff
19:43 < lupine> it just might not be a *requirement* here
19:44 < jsync> That router is not connected to the internet.
19:44 < jsync> I'm just using the router as a switch box to connect the 3 machines on a "local network".
19:44 < lupine> then you won't be able to make dns queries
19:44 < jsync> So, I need dns software? Yes?
19:45 < lupine> the dns software won't be able to provide answers to any queries you make to it
19:45 < shtrb|laptop> external quries (anything outside)
19:45 < lupine> stipulated
19:46 < lupine> it's sane if he's planning on serving a bunch of pre-cooked answers, but ISTR that was precluded in the initial enquiry
19:47 < jsync> What do I need to make these sites listed on a local network then?
19:48 < detha> lupine: he has a development copy of a site, in an apache install with name-based vhosts. So instead of either just putting that name in /etc/hosts on the other machines, or moving the site to defaulthost in apache and accessing it by IP, he wants somedomain.example to resolve to an internal address
19:48 < lupine> mm, /etc/hosts would be easiest for that
19:48 < lupine> or even just setting the SNI or Host: header directly if you can get away with it
19:50 < jsync> Well, I have, for an example, /var/www/osvl.org & it's accessible on the machine that has the apache2 software running, though it's not accessible on the other couple of machines connected to the router LAN ports.
19:51 < shtrb|laptop> man /etc/hosts
19:51 < shtrb|laptop> how many times do we need to repeat that ?
19:51 < shtrb|laptop> man hosts (actually ) :-(
19:51 < jsync> In /etc/hosts I have 192.168.x.x osvl.org listed.
19:51 < jsync> That didn't fix my problem.
19:52 < shtrb|laptop> now , go to each machine and add that line
19:52 < shtrb|laptop> no need for DNS server anymore
19:52 < jsync> Oh really?!
19:52 < jsync> I didn't realize that's what you meant.
19:52 < shtrb|laptop> I don't know if you are joking or seruis
19:52 < shtrb|laptop> the same could had been done on your router (to that that only once)
19:52 < jsync> That doesn't make sense to me. Why do I need to put that in the /etc/hosts files of the other machines? How will that help?
19:53 < shtrb|laptop>  /etc/hosts is read by the OS to resolve BEFORE accessing /etc/resolv.conf for the DNS servers
19:54 < shtrb|laptop> Each machine will be able to resolve it later (assuming your apache is listening on an accisable interface)
19:55 < jsync> Do I list the 192.168.x.x address of the machine that has the apache software within each of the hosts files?
19:56 < detha> yes
19:56 < shtrb|laptop> do it on the router once
19:56 < jsync> For an example, if the machine that has the apache software & site is 192.168.1.66 & the other couple of machines use a separate address, do I list the 192.168.1.66 address within each of the separate machines?
19:56 < shtrb|laptop> YES
19:57 < shtrb|laptop> or you set it up once in the router ....
19:57 < jsync> OK. OK. Maybe that will fix this situation.
19:57 < jsync> Once in the router? Via the GUI?
19:57 < Janos> detha, yup, the ip was been explicitly rejected on the ruleset, thanks
19:58 < detha> Janos: you're welcome. Now to find out who hates google, and has access to that ruleset ;)
20:00 < Janos> detha, that is indeed the next step ...
20:04 < jsync> Where within the router GUI would I set that?
20:05 < jsync> The machine that has the apache software running is using a static address. Not dhcp. Maybe that's part of the problem?
20:06 < jsync> Within the NAT/Gaming section, I can select "Apache", though the device that has the apache software is not listed because it's using a static address.
20:18 < jsync> OK. I just listed 192.168.x.x osvl.org with address of the server machine into the /etc/hosts files of the other couple of machines & now osvl.org is accessible within those other machines.
20:19 < jsync> Thanks for the help. :)
20:39 < drudge`> some of those soho's cost as much as a grey market cisco with more capabilities
20:39 < drudge`> oh woa, im way scrolled up
20:39 < drudge`> nvm me here, lol
20:45 < jsync> I copied the debian repository files to /var/www/ & I did a2ensite, though my config had /public_html/ within it & the apache server returned error. I replaced the /public_html/ with /debian/ & the apache software still returns error & fails to start the server.
20:47 < jsync> The specific name I used is ftp.mirror.debian.org
20:48 < jsync> So, in the line that had /public_html/ I have /www/ftp.mirror.debian.org/debian/
20:49 < jsync> That's the "DocumentRoot" line in the ftp.mirror.debian.org.conf file.
20:59 < CuriousMind> Hi. I am here because I have networking questions
21:01 < CuriousMind> I am doing research on ARP and I read something that says that ARP is a protocol used by the Internet Protocol. So protocols are sometimes dependent on other protocols?
21:03 < bezaban> many protocols are layered
21:03 < bezaban> or stacks have layers of protocols
21:06 < CuriousMind> bezaban: That is what I don't quite understand. When I read 'layered' or 'stacks', I get the impression that certain protocols operate at more than one layer, but I don't think that this is what you mean
21:06 <+catphish> CuriousMind: many protocols are either stacked on top of each other, or as in the case of IP and ARP, side by side but with one depending on the other
21:07 <+catphish> in a similar way, HTTP depends on DNS to do its name lookups
21:07 < CuriousMind> catphish: I see
21:07 <+catphish> you don't *have* to use DNS, or ARP, but they make things much much simpler
21:08 < CuriousMind> catphish: I don't get it. Why wouldn't you use DNS or ARP? What else could I use to accomplish whatever I would accomplish using DNS or ARP?
21:09 < CuriousMind> catphish: What does 'protocols are stacked on top of each other' mean?
21:09 <+catphish> CuriousMind: you would always use them, because the only other option is entering addresses manually
21:09 <+catphish> for example IP is usually on top of ethernet
21:10 <+catphish> TCP is on top of IP
21:10 < CuriousMind> catphish: catphish: Enter addresses manually where? In configuration files on your computer?
21:10 <+catphish> you can't use the upper protocol without the lower one
21:10 <+catphish> CuriousMind: in the case of HTTP and DNS, you can enter an IP address directly into a browser, or you could configure the hostnames in a file
21:11 <+catphish> with ARP, you can run commands to set up the mapping of IP addresses to MAC addresses, but you would very very rarely ever do so manually
21:11 < CuriousMind> catphish: Hold on, I am trying to make sense out of this. What you are saying is good
21:12 <+catphish> the point i am making is that some protocols use other protocols for convenience, but are not strictly dependent on them
21:12 <+catphish> in other cases, one protocol is encapsulated inside another, and as a consequence, it is 100% dependent
21:13 < Phil-Work> not entirely dependant as the lower layers can usually be swapped for something else without the higher layers caring
21:13 < CuriousMind> catphish: Ah I see
21:13 < Phil-Work> rarely is a protocol entirely dependant on the protocols below it
21:14 <+catphish> that's true, they are often interchangeable, though not always
21:14 < Phil-Work> TLS and DTLS being examples of those which do depend on what's below to a certain extent
21:14 < CuriousMind> catphish: 'IP is usually on top of ethernet' which means that IP is higher than Ethernet because IP is the network layer (layer 4) while Ethernet is Physical/Data link layer (layer 1 & 2). Am I understanding the context?
21:14 <+catphish> as an example, DNS almost always requires UDP, but it can also be used on TCP, and could theoretically be used on any other layer4 protocol
21:15 <+catphish> IP is network layer, i'd call that layer *3*, but yes
21:15 < Phil-Work> likewise Ethernet is layer 2, not 1
21:16 <+catphish> Phil-Work: it's both
21:16 < CuriousMind> What you guys are saying is good. I am trying to kind of conceptualize this in my head and understand
21:16 < Phil-Work> though layer 1 protocols such as Base1000T are specifically designed for carrying Ethernet over twisted pair
21:16 <+catphish> ethernet defines both layer 1 and layer 2
21:16 < Phil-Work> the OSI model works well, until you think about it too hard - then it breaks
21:17 < bezaban> like most models :)
21:17 < CuriousMind> lol
21:17 <+catphish> the model is actually pretty good, some protocols don't fit perfectly into it though
21:17 < Phil-Work> right
21:17 < Phil-Work> like GRE
21:18 <+catphish> pretty much any VPN
21:18 < Phil-Work> it's a layer 4 protocol that can carry layer 2
21:18 <+catphish> VPNs break the model, and people get confused about arp, an application that sits directly on top of layer2
21:19 < Phil-Work> likewise ICMP
21:19 < Phil-Work> which stops somewhere around layer 4
21:19 < CuriousMind> I know that a protocol is a set of communication rules for carrying out data. Besides from the theory, an actual protocol is programming instructions which are a standard across the entire Internet right? All the browsers, network devices, etc are embedded with the same instructions in order for things to work properly. Am I correct?
21:20 < Phil-Work> CuriousMind, in terms of the widely used protocols, sure
21:20 <+catphish> CuriousMind: a protocol is a description of how to communicate, like a language
21:20 < Phil-Work> at layer 7, pretty much anything goes... as long as two or more things understand the same protocol
21:21 <+catphish> as long as both ends know how to speak the same protocol, they can communicate
21:21 < Apachez> Phil-Work: you use 1000base over fiber too
21:21 < CuriousMind> Phil-Work: Oh right because certain companies and stuff develop their own protocols right? Like I know microsoft develop its own protocol and it runs on a certain specialized port. Am I correct?
21:21 < Phil-Work> Apachez, not 1000baseT
21:21 < Phil-Work> but yes
21:21 <+catphish> Apachez: those different layer1 protocols are all part of "ethernet"
21:21 < Apachez> well that T is the physical medium
21:22 < Apachez> T, FX, SX, LX, LH, ER, ZR, ZX
21:22 < Phil-Work> this is where I'm a bit hazy
21:22 < Apachez> whatelse
21:22 < Apachez> dunno what they call those 250km singlemode interfaces nowadays
21:22 < Apachez> since 80km is Zx
21:22 < Apachez> 40km is Ex
21:22 < Apachez> and 10-20 is Lx
21:22 < Phil-Work> I imagine that 1000baseT is quite significantly different to 1000baseSX given it's got 8 conductors vs 2
21:22 < Apachez> to fuck things up there is also Lx at 2km
21:23 < Phil-Work> I realise I just called fibre a conductor :D
21:23 < Apachez> SX is fiber so not many conductors in the way you think
21:23 < Apachez> multimode
21:23 < Apachez> LX is singlemode
21:23 < spaces> Apachez how are the meatballs doing ?
21:23 < Apachez> spaces: well done
21:23 <+catphish> those protocols specify the physical medium, and also the encoding
21:24 <+catphish> 1000BaseT is literally magic
21:24 < spaces> Apachez good
21:24 < spaces> catphish why that ?
21:24 < Phil-Work> indeed - but my understanding is that the protocols must be quite significantly different given the difference in medium
21:24 <+catphish> spaces: because it uses the same wire to transmit in both directions at the same time
21:24 < Apachez> there is 1000baseTX too
21:24 < Apachez> only 4 lines out of 8
21:25 < Phil-Work> though I guess 100baseT only has 1 TX and RX so it's probably not too different from how you signal over fibre
21:25 <+catphish> 1000baseTX never really came to be a thing
21:25 < Phil-Work> as I said, hazy - mostly due to Wireshark not telling me much about that part
21:25 <+catphish> Phil-Work: i think they're quite similar apart from 1000BaseT
21:25 < Apachez> which is bad since I liked those Y-cables you can use on 100Mbps networks
21:25 < Apachez> to put 2 physical pairs of cables over a single cable
21:26 < CuriousMind> Phil-Work: 'rarely is a protocol entirely dependant on the protocols below it' Is this because some/most protocols are were designed in a way which enables them to pretty much accomplish whatever they need to accomplish. Am I right?
21:26 < Phil-Work> wait, how does 1000BaseT duplex on the same wire?
21:26 < Phil-Work> different frequencies?
21:26 < grawity> Phil-Work: something to do with echo-cancellation
21:26 < grawity> or, well
21:26 < grawity> it subtracts what it knows it's sending, iirc
21:26 <+catphish> CuriousMind: protocols are designed to be agnostic of the way they're carried
21:27 <+catphish> CuriousMind: it means lower protocols can be upgraded later
21:27 < Phil-Work> except SIP
21:27 < Phil-Work> which is a shitshow
21:27 <+catphish> for example, IP will work over Ethernet, but would work over a future replacement for ethernet too
21:28 < Phil-Work> grawity, I'll leave it as "physics, innit." and be done with it
21:28 < CuriousMind> Real life applications please?
21:28 < spaces> catphish you mean half Duplex ?
21:28 <+catphish> spaces: what?
21:29 < CuriousMind> Yeah I'm lost lol. I get what you guys are saying kind of but not really
21:29 < spaces> catphish you say the same wire
21:29 <+catphish> spaces: what else did i say in that same sentence?
21:29 < spaces> catphish mhh indeed, I never seen that anywhere
21:30 <+catphish> right, it's magic
21:30 < spaces> catphish why are you confising ? confused because of the Brexit you are in ? :P
21:30 < Phil-Work> I guess it's not too different to Ethernet over Powerline
21:30 < Phil-Work> or duplex fibre circuits on a single fibre
21:30  * spaces had to make that stament because it's too easy 
21:30 <+catphish> spaces: yes, brexit is very confusing
21:31 < spaces> I used 1G halfduplex in a situation where I was not able to get 2 cables from room to toom
21:31 < spaces> room
21:31 < GenteelBen> Half-duplex?
21:31 < GenteelBen> First time I've heard of that being used in the real world in like...10 years.
21:31 < spaces> catphish we will let the hat go around, don't let go mate!
21:31 < GenteelBen> Come on, spaces, we're all full-duplex now, get on the trolley.
21:32 < spaces> GenteelBen that was 12 years ago
21:32 < GenteelBen> Oh.
21:32 < GenteelBen> Why'd you use half-duplex? No money for an unmanaged switch?
21:32 <+catphish> i don't think there is any 1G half duplex
21:32 < GenteelBen> I remember at my first work they used to call them "splitters"
21:33 < GenteelBen> And nobody knew why they worked.
21:33 < spaces> GenteelBen no I needed to have 2 wallmounts but I was able to get 1 cable to each room. I needed to go through everywhere...
21:33 < GenteelBen> They were tiny two-port Ethernet hubs, basically.
21:33 < Phil-Work> they worked on 100BaseT because it only used 4 of 8 wires
21:33 < GenteelBen> This is crazy.
21:33 <+catphish> yeah, it's simple on 10/100, because those protocols only use 4 pairs
21:33 < grawity> Phil-Work: powerline isn't full-duplex, is it?
21:33 <+catphish> *2 pairs
21:33 < Phil-Work> *2 pairs
21:33 < GenteelBen> It's time to invest in a 100GbE backbone for your house, catphish.
21:33 < Phil-Work> ;)
21:34 < Phil-Work> grawity, not a clue
21:34 < GenteelBen> It must be.
21:34 < Phil-Work> that's always felt like magic too
21:34 < GenteelBen> Surely??11
21:34 <+catphish> GenteelBen: i'll focus on trying to get the best upload speed i can on my WAN for now
21:34 < grawity> iirc it's a cross between wifi and csma ethernet
21:34 < Phil-Work> shoving Ethernet on a wire with 240V on it always seemed a bit sketchy to me
21:34 < grawity> and duplex fibre just uses different colors
21:35 <+catphish> Phil-Work: once you learn about isolation, these things get less scary
21:36 < grawity> Phil-Work: have you seen live-line workers directly fixing megavolt overhead lines
21:36 < Phil-Work> catphish, also once you learn the bits not to lick?
21:36 < Phil-Work> grawity, fucking nut jobs
21:36 < Phil-Work> with really big gloves
21:36 <+catphish> lol
21:37 < Phil-Work> I don't mind working on mains, but never live
21:37 < grawity> nah, instead of isolating from the line, they isolate from ground
21:37 < grawity> it's the potential difference or something that has the... potential to kill
21:37 < Phil-Work> I'm sure you get used to it, but you're placing a lot of trust in the kit
21:38 <+catphish> Phil-Work: same with any device connected to the mains :)
21:38 < Phil-Work> catphish, at 240v - sure
21:38 <+catphish> my laptop is connected to the mains, i trust the power supply a lot to isolate me
21:38 < CuriousMind> catphish: 'in a similar way, HTTP depends on DNS to do its name lookups'. Is the DNS protocol encapsulated in the HTTP protocol? In the HTTP protocol is some code that says if client doesn't have IP address of the host that it requested, then check ARP table for resolver server? Do I understand or not really?
21:38 < Phil-Work> I've been shocked more times than I can count
21:39 < Phil-Work> RCD trips, I swear a bit
21:39 <+catphish> CuriousMind: go read about how each of those protocols work
21:39 < grawity> CuriousMind: not at all
21:39 < CuriousMind> catphish: ok
21:39 <+catphish> i've never been shocked, i've never worked on live mains voltage
21:39 <+catphish> i simply turn it off
21:39 < grawity> (also HTTP doesn't give a fuck whether you're using DNS or not, as long as it resolves)
21:40 < Phil-Work> likewise, but I've brushed against wires I've left hanging out the wall ready for plastering before which had to be turned on to put power back to the rest of the circuit
21:40 <+catphish> yeah i wouldn't do that :)
21:41 < Phil-Work> RCDs are a godsend
21:41 <+catphish> indeed
21:41 <+catphish> although 35mA is gonna hurt
21:41 < Phil-Work> sure - you know you've touched it
21:41 < Phil-Work> but 32A is going to hurt a bit more
21:42 <+catphish> plus whatever current if you touch both :)
21:42 <+catphish> but yeah, i believe RCDs are awesome
21:43 < Phil-Work> fitted a fan isolator at the weekend on a new bathroom I'm doing at home - ended up putting the plate screw through the switched live and the neutral
21:43 < Phil-Work> that made one hell of a bang, even on a 6A breaker
21:44 <+catphish> i did that last year, caught a live wire in a screw to earth
21:44 < Phil-Work> earth isn't too bad as the RCD trips
21:44 <+catphish> made a nice black streak across the back of the back box
21:45 <+catphish> iirc the 30A breaker and RCD both went
21:46 < Phil-Work> feasible, I guess, with a decent path to earth
21:46 < Phil-Work> you'd get the full 30A to earth before the 30ms RCD trips off
21:47 <+catphish> i'd think so, depending on the quality of the wiring
21:47 <+catphish> it was only a few m from the panel
21:48 <+catphish> good thing the back box was earthed properly
21:49 < Phil-Work> deep fried catphish
21:49 <+catphish> i think modern sockets earth the screw holes anyway
21:49 < Phil-Work> I'd think so, though the screw isn't exactly tight in there when you're screwing it in so it'd arc to earth at best
21:50 <+catphish> Phil-Work: see above regarding not working on live circuits :)
21:50 < Phil-Work> oh, yeh - that
21:50 <+catphish> this was after i was done, when i turned it back on
21:50 < Phil-Work> fair point
21:50 <+catphish> so it had good contact
21:50 < Apachez> you turned a black on it ?
21:51 < Phil-Work> in other news, why am I still here
21:51 < Phil-Work> not done an ounce of work in the last 3 hours
21:52 <+catphish> go home :)
21:53 < Shiraz_> hello . can someone help me factory reset an allied telesis AT-FS750/16 switch ? i don't have the credentials for the management interface
21:54 < Shiraz_> it doesn't have a reset button . i checked it . also , now i opened the case and loocked on the PCB
21:54 < Shiraz_> i don't see any reset switch !!! wtf is this shit ?
21:56 <+catphish> does it have a serial port?
21:56 <+catphish> usually you'd interrupt the boot process on the serial port
21:56 < Shiraz_> it has a null-modem port but i don't have a serial port on my PC lol
21:57 <+catphish> also, seriously, mind your language
21:57 <+catphish> Shiraz_: get a serial cable, interrupt the boot process, reset it
21:57 < Shiraz_> catphish ok sorry
21:57 < Shiraz_> but i don't have a serial port on my pc
21:58 <+catphish> you can get usb to serial cables
21:58 < Shiraz_> i searched but only found null-modem mother to null-modem mother
21:58 < Shiraz_> female i mean
21:59 < Shiraz_> i see there are som GPIO pins on the motherboard ( PCB of the switch )
22:00 < Shiraz_> maybe i must connect some of those pins in order to reset it
22:00 < tds> it sounds like it'll have a web interface, if you don't have a serial port/cable handy you may be able to figure out what IP it's assigned and get to that to reset it
22:04 <+catphish> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Serial-DB9-9-Pin-RS232-RS-232-to-USB-Adaptor-Convertor-Cable-Lead-Wire/292533987628?epid=2222868346&hash=item441c62692c:g:QVYAAOSwYUBa3M68
22:04 <+catphish> or similar
22:07 < tds> I like the system requirements there ;)
22:11 < Shiraz_> catphish thanks that whoud fit perfecty but unfortunatelly i couldn't find it locally .
22:11 <+catphish> Shiraz_: order from china
22:12 < Shiraz_> yea , maybe i'll do it unless i throwit out the window first
22:12 <+catphish> it's very unlikely there's any other way to get into it
22:13 < tds> if you're very bored and have nothing better to do then it might be worth trying a web/telnet interface, otherwise yeah, I'd just wait for a usb-serial cable to arrive
22:14 < Shiraz_> tds i tryed but the previous owner changed it's default credentials
22:18 <+catphish> telnet is no use without the credentials
22:22 < kuahara> Looking at a county government office that has an AT&T provided inside router that does everything a router usually does:  routing, nat, the whole 9 yards.  They connect it to another inside router doing all the same things.  The primary subnet is behind the 2nd router.
22:22 < kuahara> I tell my boss this isn't normal.  "yes, it is, we do that everywhere".
22:23 <+xand> more routers = more better
22:23 < kuahara> a tracert from the inside to the outside showed both devices before I got a hop with a public IP and they can't figure out why their VPN isn't working.
22:24 < kuahara> but clearly I don't know what I'm talking about
22:24 < kuahara> sorry, I know this isn't #venting
22:28 < E1ephant> what if you add one more router
22:28 < E1ephant> I think it's even numbers of routers that is broken
22:28 < kuahara> Triple nat?  epic
22:28 < E1ephant> so an odd number of 3 will  work great
22:30 < kuahara> I suggested having the ISP just provide a modem only.  "no, they don't need to do that.  I'll go look at it again"  (you do that)   Told him we're on fiber and I go directly from the ONT into the sonicwall, absolutely no need for a 2nd gateway.
22:30 < ||cw> kuahara: is pretty normal, actually
22:30 < E1ephant> normal for who?
22:30 < ||cw> lol good luck on having the ISP do anything special for you
22:31 < kuahara> He's describing the situation that home users are often in.
22:31 < ||cw> E1ephant: normal for DSL and cable
22:31 < Apachez> ONT...
22:31 < Apachez> poor bastard
22:31 < kuahara> ||cw even at home on cable, I purchased a modem only and use a separate router.   I hate those combination modem, but also a router, but also has 4 switchports demonic devices that shouldn't exist.
22:32 < Apachez> ||cw: not that hard when you speak to ISPs who 1) knows what you are doing 2) you are an enterprise customer
22:32 < ||cw> our canada branch office is that way and there's no other option.  they don't offer a modem, only the combined device
22:32 < kuahara> turn off routing
22:32 < ||cw> kuahara: home cable you can do that, business cable not usually.  and business DSL, flat no
22:32 < ||cw> not an option
22:32 < kuahara> I have not had your experience with business internet at all
22:33 < E1ephant> for dsl you can use your own modem for almost anything, and cable provider that doesn't have a modem-only option? kinda weird get a surfboard, have it pretend to be a sb+router model.
22:33 < kuahara> We work with roughly 70 county government offices in Texas and with nearly all of them, this is not a problem.
22:33 < E1ephant> ? even
22:33 < ||cw> like it literally does not have that option.  it is set to forward all to my pfsense though
22:33 < kuahara> E1ephant surfboard modem only,  no need for the combo demon
22:33 < E1ephant> lol is alpheous and windstream in your portfolio?
22:34 < E1ephant> if so ouch :(
22:34 < Maarten> Most cable providers you can have a cablemodem only..... the bigger ones like Spectrum and Comcast you can just buy your own and have it activated. Don't know about smaller ones.
22:34 < ||cw> kuahara: nice to know ISPs in TX are sane.  that's an out-lier.
22:34 < kuahara> If I ever had an ISP tell me I couldn't use my own equipment, I'd tell them they aren't my ISP anymore.
22:34 < ||cw> Maarten: not with business cable on charter, they want to "manage" it.
22:35 < ||cw> doing your own means you're basically on home-level support
22:35 < Apachez> how would they otherwise be able to fill the logservers that NSA put out in their networks?
22:35 < E1ephant> yeah so buy their fiber product
22:35 < E1ephant> don't have that issue :)
22:35 < kuahara> So use them for internet service, but they tell you how you'll use that internet because they manage a device in your house for you; regardless of what you want?  no thanks.
22:36 < ||cw> E1ephant: I wish we could get anything but dsl at the canada branch.
22:36 < tds> catphish/Shiraz_: oops, sorry, I completely missed in the first message that you didn't have the credentials
22:36 < kuahara> ||cw, even if you're forced into that mess, that's still far from normal.
22:36 < Maarten> ||cw, yeah.... well, of course cable is a cheap business solution (which is why so many use it for smaller satellite offices) but if you are a serious business with serious internet needs, you would just get a dedicated fiber link. (Also, we have a 1 Gbit/s fiber link from Spectrum that doesn't have that problem. They just give you an ethernet port that you can connect to anything you want).
22:36 < ||cw> kuahara: not house, business.  with an SLA
22:37 < ||cw> Maarten: our main office is fiber.  I get an either-net cable out of their IAD and I do what i want with it.
22:37 < kuahara> oddly enough, the county office I'm in charge of doesn't have an SLA yet.  We have 100 up, 100 down fiber, but the ISP here only just started selling it a year ago and still hasn't dolled out SLAs for business.  That said, they treat us exactly like we have one.
22:38 < ||cw> but the IAD is still a router that I don't have any control over.  it's set setup "enterprise" so it routes a public block
22:39 < kuahara> They treat us like we have a 100% uptime guarantee and if I call about anything, they're here immediately; even when the issue doesn't call for an onsite tech.
22:39 < ||cw> and it cost about 6 times what my home connection costs, for 1/3 the download but better upload
22:40 < kuahara> well, yea.  that extra cost is for the SLA, not the technology.
22:40 < E1ephant> probably more like a NID
22:40 < E1ephant> than a router
22:40 < E1ephant> but yeah, using real gear is optimal to just commodity cable.
22:40 < ||cw> kuahara: none of that changes that it's pretty common to have a router you have litter or no choice over and a better router behind it.
22:41 < ||cw> E1ephant: IAD as it supports a voice PRI as well.
22:41 < E1ephant> the router bit isn't weird at all
22:41 < E1ephant> I think it's the NAT
22:41 < kuahara> I don't think that's pretty common in business.  Sory.  I disagree.
22:41 < kuahara> Sorry*
22:41 < E1ephant> which, yeah the device can then passthrough if all else no?
22:42 < ||cw> yeah, passthru is enabled.
22:43 < ||cw> E1ephant: the IAD on my fiber has an IP address that i use as my gateway, it is a router.
22:45 < kuahara> More normal, even for home, especially with AT&T is that company responsiblity ends at a demarc inside the NID.  AT&T is responsible everything up to and into it, customer is responsible for the side that goes out and into the home.
22:46 < kuahara> that said, *I* own the equipment.  I am not leasing theirs.  I expect a public IP assigned to the outside interface of equipment they don't own.  It's usually never an issue.
23:05  * L3gacy shimmies across the DC floor
23:05 < djph> kuahara: AT&T (residential) is a bit sucky, you "have to" use their gateway (even if it's just in "shutup you, just be a modem" mode)
23:07 < linux_probe> lol
23:22 < Psi-Jack> djph: That, and do they still use those insecure routers?
23:22 < Psi-Jack> What was that brand....
23:22 < djph> Psi-Jack: IDK, I have a ... whatsit Pace?
23:23 < Psi-Jack> PACE is one... But not what they used for me a couple years ago.
23:23 < Psi-Jack> The one I had was vulnerable to the rotating key hack.
23:23 < djph> ... it's over there doing "fuck off, and be a good little modem", while I continually whine at AT&T that they need to stop pissing around and let me use my own kit
23:25 < phinxy> What are the modules that slide in to server-racks called?  More specifically how are multiple hard drives connected?
23:25 < Maarten> I managed to bypass my AT&T gateway and connect directly to the ONT. That doesn't work with the copper vdsl variety though.....
23:25 < Psi-Jack> Hmm, now I don't rememebr, was big in the news a while back.
23:25 < xamithan> modules for hard-drives ?  what?
23:25 < Psi-Jack> But AT&T doesn't even list that brand on their DSL routers compatability list, or anything.
23:26 < Psi-Jack> Arris!
23:26 < Psi-Jack> The short time I had AT&T DSL, they gave me an Arris DSL modem. heh
23:26 < Psi-Jack> Was reliable, mostly, but vulnerable (tested and confirmed, and AT&T denied it)
23:27 < djph> sounds about right for any big company :)
23:27 < xamithan> Does it matter,  I still see people using WEP
23:27 < djph> yeah, you can apparently connect to the ONT, but I haven't really checked it out
23:28 < djph> right now, it works, so why screw with it.
23:30 < E1ephant> ||cw: you're SURE the IP lives there, and not upstream actually on an MTU or PE?
23:30 < ||cw> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
23:30 < Maarten> I got a Ubiquity USG connected directly to the ONT.... works great, HOWEVER I can't get IPv6 to work reliably, so there is that. Apparantly Ubiquiti's IPv6 implementation is still buggy, and you need a custom GUID file for AT&T, so manual hacking involved. Since I didn't need IPv6 right away, I put that on the backburner. But the connection runs super smooth and shaved another 1 or 2ms off of the connection in latency.
--- Log closed Tue May 15 00:00:20 2018